# Cleveland, OH - TWC



## takosan

Yesterday I finally put up a RS VU-90XR antenna on my single story (chimney mount). I live in N. Olmsted.


I used to have a satellite dish but when I canceled it I just unplugged the cable from the dish & re-routed it to the VU-90XR.


I can now pick up 3, 5, 8, 19, & 43 - all of them comes in around 50% on my Samsung SIR-T150.


The 50% all around makes me wonder. I do have a tree in the direction of where the UV-90XR is pointing but I'm wondering if I should be getting better than 50% on some/all channels?


TIA,

Robert


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## danton3

im down in cuyahoga falls and get abc (93%), fox (69%), and cbs (93-100%) and i use the terk indoor antenna everyone complains about...


you can probably improve your strength if you tweek your antenna


i dont get nbc channel 3 at all .. but ive heard that their power is weak


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## takosan

Thanks. I need to tweak the antenna angle this weekend.


Wow, you getting 93% with indoor antenna


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## EricHarrison

I live in Wellington, which is probably 30 miles southwest of North Olmsted. I had to go to an outdoor antennae to pick up CBS reliably, and finally be able to pull in NBC. I get anywhere from85%-95% on all stations now....


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## thriller

does anyone know if wews shuts its digital transmitted off during nonprime time hours the way ch43 does?


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## Ben Music

TAKOSAN,

From North Olmsted point your antenna southeast past the airport to the Parma tv towers. That should give you 70 to 100% if your antenna is on the roof. Slightly less if antenna is in the attic. WEWS CH 5-1 seems to be doing some upgading lately. Their signal is on & off, up & down, all over the map. Hopefully they and CH 43-1 will have it all fixed by the time the new fall shows start.


Ben Music

North Ridgeville


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## Shark73

ABC is down again today. I hope this is not going to be an ongoing problem. With MNF starting soon....maybe they are upgrading to DD 5.1!


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## Fred DeGrandis

WEWS is at 0's for me







I get NBC and fox great, but CBS is also bad now(18-30's). What are you guys getting CBS at?


Thanks,

Fred


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## Fred DeGrandis

I also forgot to add, that WKYC(NBC) sometimes has an occasional dropout. Are any of yoy having this problem? If so, we need to organize a group call in to have them fix this.


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## ZManCartFan

Channel 3 is usually so prone to dropouts for me that I don't ever watch it. Except for the radar channel lately. You know, with all the rain and all.










I'm in Medina, and signal strength is about 85%. I just chalk it up to the fact that it's a low VHF station, and there must be a lot of "interference" on the channel. But if it's something that they could fix on there end, I'd be all for it!


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## danton3

ABC is still down (sunday night) was a 100% on friday- so maybe they are working on the STRENGTH of their antennas...


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## rlockshin

Just spoke with Mr. Baird in engineering. Digital is down and he was on the phone ordering parts. Also Ch 43 is on the air 12-12 daily. I receive CBS at 69 % in Bath. Many evenings signal does break up around 9


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## Shark73

Thanks for the update. Any mention on when ABC might upgrade to DD 5.1 audio?


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## Shark73

ABC is still down today.


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## Mike_Stuewe

Hey guys, just a thought,


Since this thread keeps growing about all the crap we get from local dtv in cleveland, and since it has a decent thread title, how about we make this an unofficial official cleveland thread to post all the cleveland problems in?


Just a thought.


btw, WKYC is always 100% for me. I just chalk that up to being lucky. I lose the signal occasionaly though when my dad runs his paper shredder, or with the dish washer running. But thats just cuz those morons put it on channel 2 instead of going UHF.


Mike


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## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Hey guys, just a thought,
> 
> 
> Since this thread keeps growing about all the crap we get from local dtv in cleveland, and since it has a decent thread title, how about we make this an unofficial official cleveland thread to post all the cleveland problems in?
> 
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> 
> btw, WKYC is always 100% for me. I just chalk that up to being lucky. I lose the signal occasionaly though when my dad runs his paper shredder, or with the dish washer running. But thats just cuz those morons put it on channel 2 instead of going UHF.
> 
> 
> Mike*



Great idea Mike. Lets make this the offical thread.


Ken H....can you help with this??? Please add "Offical" to the title.


Thanks,


Jim


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## danton3

abc still down in cleveland -- this is getting ridiculous


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## rlockshin

Just spoke with engineering at Ch 5. Waiting on parts that were ordered. Earliest is Thursday could be as late as Mon. Hopes to have it fixed by Monday Night. He used the word HOPE. That is the latest and greatest from Cleve. Keep this forum going


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## EricHarrison

Hey, as long as ABC has it ready to go by the first Monday night game, thats all I care about.


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## Mike_Stuewe

Yeah, Football is the main concern, although its a good thing its not the Browns playing Monday Night. Can't wait til the uproar occurs when something goes wrong when the Browns are on MNF on that Sunday game against the 49ers on CBS.


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## EricHarrison

Heres hoping that with the repairs they are making, they are also upgrading to 5.1


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## Fred DeGrandis

I want to touch on 2 things here









First, if there is a program that should be in HD but our local isn't broadcasting it in HD, then call the channels newsroom(the news room is always open), and then ask for MASTER CONTROLL. Once they answer, ask them to flip the switch, and bam, you have HDTV)


Here are the numbers to call to get in touch with our locals(these may be a little out of date, but I haven't had any problems):


Thanks To Blaney for posting these 2 years ago











WKYC, analog 3, D-2, NBC

general 216-344-3333

newsroom 216-344-3300

Rex Rickly, chief engineer 216-344-3353

Donna Cropf, Programming 216-344-3559



WOIO, analog 19, D-10, CBS

general 877-929-1943

Harry Wilkens, chief engineer, 216-367-7450

Jim Kopanski **engineer, good guy 216-367-7455

Bryan Anderson, programming 216-367-7114



WJW, Analog 8, D-31, Fox

general 216-432-4240

John Cifani, engineer 216-432-4888



WEWS, analog 5, D-15, ABC

general 216-431-5555

Ken Jackson, chief engineer 216-431-3494



About a year or two back, we had a problem with WKYC(freequent dropouts(about every 10 seconds). We organized a group call in effort, and each cleveland area member called in a few times to let engineering know that there were digital channel viewers who want the channel fixed. After a week of the calls, the channel was fixed!


We need to do something like this again(on a larger scale(there are more of us know then there were 2 years ago)).


The Problems that each local has:


ABC:

Not on the air at the moment.

No 5.1 sound(they have been promising this to us for over a year!!!!!)


NBC:

Still having occasional dropouts, but nowhere as freequent as they once were


CBS:

Their signal strenth is crap! It has never been good, and it wont be(rumor has it that they bought the wrong type of antenna for our region).


FOX:

I dont have any problems with FAUX because they dont broadcast in HDTV!


PBS:

Ok, others have had HDTV through PBS for 2 years now.....Lets get it together PBS. I understand how Public TV works, but cmon


WB:

They have been offering programming for over 6 months....Lets get on the bandwagon here!



I think that if you guys are interested in solving some of these problems, we need to work together. If you guys are up for it we can organize and pick a local per week to annoy untill everything is up to our standards. We may be annoying them, but once HDTV becomes more mainstream, they will be glad that everything is up and running.



Fred


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## rlockshin

WEWS chief engineer is John Workman.

Anyone else notice that WKYC takes a little longer to pop in. I have spoken with Rex, I know him personally and they are aware of the problem. It is a PSIP problem and they do not know how to solve it. Also bad weather does affect their signal more than others. Do not be fooled by claims that digital signals are not affected by rain. They are. Keep this group running!!!

I do not think anyone in Cleve is broadcasting DD 5.1. If they are let me know.


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## Mike_Stuewe

Fred,


as far as PBS and the WB are concerned, I think WVIZ and WBNX have legal issues to deal with. I know WBNX has a problem with their digital station broadcasting into Canada. Not sure what the issue was with WVIZ. Oddly, one day my dad ran into, I believe on of the engineers, of WVIZ. He said once the legal issues get cleared up, they will have to order the equipment, and that will take at least 4 months to receive and install. This was last month so at the earliest we are looking at Winter for WVIZ.


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## EricHarrison

you are right, there is no 5.1 in cleveland right now. if anyone is close, it is ABC, but they have been saying that they will upgrade soon, but they never do..


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## QWIKK6

hey guys i live in willowick by rt 2 and e 305 intersection im only able to get 8-1 and 43-1. im usin the stealth vhf/uhf in my attic. im gettin be picture with that antenna than i was with my radio sahck giant antenna. anything else i can do to get the other stations in?

thanx zelko


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## Rbuchina

Group.


I'm all for picking a station to pester each week. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.


On another note. I have the Dish 6000 receiver and could get CBS HD via the satellite. Has anyone had any luck getting the waiver from CBS WOIO?

WOIOs poor signal strength has ruined many great HD programs for me over the last nine months.


Ray


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## rlockshin

I tried years ago and no waiver given. Stations are pretty strict about that


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## Fred DeGrandis

Who do you suggest we pester first?


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## danton3

I vote for NBC - cause their signal sucks


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## Mike_Stuewe

If we pester WKYC, NBC Affiliate. I think one of the things we bother them with is the multicasting. Does anyone really watch 3-2 or 3-3? It just ruins the signal for 3-1. NASCAR looks like crap cuz of the fast motion. Same with the Triple Crown and that was all HD.


But seriously, 3-2 is such low quality that if you wanted the unstretched version of the show, it would be better just to watch analog. And 3-3? Use the freaking computer if you wanna know whats up with the weather.


As far as the dropouts, maybe thats just interference for some of you guys. I don't watch NBC much, but when I do, I rarely if ever get dropouts. Next time it happens for you guys post on this board and I can check my reception.


Stu


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## rlockshin

3-2 is a signal sent for cable distribution. It cannot be dropped. I personally prefer WOIO, their signal is my weakest and breaks up many evenings and in bad weather


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## danton3

someone think of a plan -- maybe we can pick a day - and have some of us call at certain times- - spreading it out - so they know there are several customers with concerns. . and we should all have the same thing to say too


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## ZManCartFan

I vote for NBC - easily the most problematic channel I receive in Medina.


But I have to say that I actually LIKE the 3-3 material. With D*, we don't get a local forecast on the Weather Channel, so it's amazing how many times a week I flip over to 3-3 for a quick check on the radar.


But they could certainly drop 3-2. Just because they produce a digital signal for cable distribution doesn't mean that they have to actually _broadcast_ that signal, right?


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## rlockshin

As of 8 this morning WEWS is still not active. I hope they deliver as sort of promised by Monday Football


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## LowDefinition




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *Group.
> 
> 
> I have the Dish 6000 receiver and could get CBS HD via the satellite. Has anyone had any luck getting the waiver from CBS WOIO?
> 
> 
> Ray*



I applied for, and received a waiver when Dish first offered CBS on 9453. I rarely watch it though because channel 19 is very solid now. NBC is still the one that drops out the most and the one I watch the most. Can anyone using a Dish 6000 receiver see 3-3? I can only glimpse it as I change off the station. 3-1 and 3-2 come in OK. I am in Brunswick using a StealthTenna mounted at the one story level of a two story house.


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## danton3

abc still down


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## rlockshin

Just spoke with the head engineer. Digital hopes to be fixed in time for the game, but he did not sound optimistic. Waiting on parts and the power outage yesterday set them back. I did ask about 5.1 audio and they are looking at it. I told him he would be the first in Cleve to have it. Call and pester them and we could get 5.1 audio. 216-431-5555 ask for engineering. John Workman head, Jim Beird asst. More calls about 5.1 and they will probably do it. Let's pretend that we are larger than what we really are


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## danton3

just called and left a message -- lets get on these guys - i dont want them to think that there are only limited customers and that they are just upgrading for 5 years down the road--


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## Fred DeGrandis

WKYC has signal dropouts that need attention

WOIO has been bad ever since I have owned an HDTV! Back in the good old days(when everyone was up at full power, CBS was still a 60 signal rating which is unacceptable).

Newschannel 5 has been promising 5.1 sound for at least a year, and always putting it off.


All 3 of these are great ideas(I guess we will wait on the others(PBS and WB)), but we should start our call-a-thon










What do you guys think about calling each station on the same day? It will only take 2 minutes per each channel, and we can call on a daily basis until their problems are resolved. Also, it doesn't hurt to call more than once per day(disguising your voice like a woman doesn't hurt







...Ok, just kidding), and you will be surprised how fast the digital channels will be fixed.


If this is too much, someone please come up with a schedule that we can adhere to.


Thanks,

Fred


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## Mike_Stuewe

Even though the majority of the outage was overnight, I doubt the power being off helped WEWS get their act together any quicker.


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## danton3

anyone else tried to call? im calling ABC tomorrow


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## ParsonsBri

Thank god I checked in here. I just installed a new Zenith 520 and set up my ota. I thought I was going crazy moving my antenna all over the place and still no ABC. I could have saved a lot of grief by checking in. I will be really pissed if they do not have this fixed by the game tomorrow night.

What is up with WEWS? When and why did the digital signal go out?


BP


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## danton3

dont hold your breath - abc has been on and off for about a month now - -started with the flooding we had in late july


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## ParsonsBri

I just called Ken Jackson at WEWS and got voice mail. I left a message about how disappointed I am that I cant get the signal. I also asked that he call me back and let me know if repairs will be made in time for MNF.

I doubt I will hear anything, but the more of us that call the better!


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## danton3

parsons -- i just called and left a similar message- - i want it for MNF --


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## Shark73

I know this is off topic, but I need some input from you guys. Do any of you have a D* Phase III dish? If you do what is the signal strength that you are pulling in??? I just got one installed Saturday and I'm only getting 78-84%....however, the installer had never done a three LNB dish before and I was wondering if I should have someone come out to tweak it more.


Thanks for the input!


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## ParsonsBri

Shark, I just had it installed a week ago Saturday and the best we could get on 110 is 87%. However on the other two I am pulling 92-94%. I am on the west side in Avon.


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## ParsonsBri

I Just spoke with Ken Jackson (Chief Engineer) at WEWS. He stated that the director of engineering and some of his staff have been out at the transmitter all day trying to fix it. He also said that to this point he had not heard that it was fixed yet. He expected to get a call when repairs are completed. He stated that while getting it fixed for MNF was not necessarily the focus of the repair, he hoped that it would be up by tonight at 8pm. He said that they are not "commercializing it yet". I assume he means that they are not marketing the HDTV signal to customers yet, so the sense of urgency is not as high as it would be otherwise. He seemed like a nice guy and sensitive to our wishes to get the signal back up, but did not share a whole lot of detail.


I guess we are just going to have to be patient with them.


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## Mike_Stuewe

Still no Channel 5-1. Hopes for MNF tonight are dwindling. I was really hopin to see the Rams too. 2nd favorite team in the NFL, and really lookin forward to seeing what Sehorn can do for them.


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## Shark73

No signal at this time. Looks like they need more time. I know some of you wanted the game tonight in order to see your teams play, but lets just hope they fix it properly and we get all the regular season MNF games.


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## danton3

well i hope they are working on it at least- - we wont have HD MNF tonight boys -- but its only pre season


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## Ro Dog

So what's the schedule for calling? I'm in.


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## Cactus Matt

Is anyone not getting WOIO channel 19-1 tonight? (Monday) Seems like CSI is dead digital wise.. It's a sad day for Cleveland HDTV if it's not just me..


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## Fred DeGrandis

Lets call CBS tomorrow(Tuesday, August 19th) if thats cool with everyone else.



WOIO, analog 19, D-10, CBS

general 877-929-1943

Jim Kopanski **engineer, good guy 216-367-7455


These numbers may be a little dated, but just call and ask for engineering. Let them know that their signal sucks(well, that there signal is worse than all of the other locals, and you were wondering when they planned to fix this). If enough of us call, we can possibly see some results. I am getting 19-27 readings from CBS, and I am getting 90-100 readings with everyone else.


Awhile back, someone mentioned that they bought the wrong antenna for Cleveland's terrain. I think CBS has alot of quality programming to offer, and we didn't spend all of the money that we did to not receive programming. I bought the Directv NFL package that will air the CBS weekly football game in HDTV, but for those of you that don't get the NFL package(who also have trouble getting CBS), it will be a long season unless we act now! Also, the Masters, Final Four, and all of the other great sporting events that CBS does wont be available










Lets get together and work as a team!


Please call, it will only take 2 minutes.


Fred DeGrandis


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## hdgeek

I had no problem with CSI tonight. I already saw this episode so I was only on the channel for a few minutes. I was really hoping for MNF but as long as they are working on it I'm happy.


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## Fred DeGrandis

I just left a message on Jim's voice mail letting him know that I have spoken to several Cleveland area members who also complained about a very weak signal. All we need is for more members to call tomorrow(I will be calling again as well). I just layed the foundation, now lets get this done.


Next on the List:

WKYC Channel 3


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## Fred DeGrandis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Cactus Matt_
> *Is anyone not getting WOIO channel 19-1 tonight? (Monday) Seems like CSI is dead digital wise.. It's a sad day for Cleveland HDTV if it's not just me..*



Its been off and on for awhile







Please join the call in effort. I am in Rocky River(about 10 miles out from the tower with a big ugly antenna on my house) and their signal stinks. It should be at 80-100 not 18-30!


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## danton3

i just called and left a message

-- nbc is the station i have the most trouble with --- but im willing to call all - cause it really depends where you are and whta antenna you have


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## Fred DeGrandis

Thanks bud! I hope that all of this wont be needed soon, and that all of our locals work!


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## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by danton3_
> *well i hope they are working on it at least- - we wont have HD MNF tonight boys -- but its only pre season*



This may only work for people South East of Cleveland, but I turned my roof-top antenna toward Youngstown and Watched MNF in HD on 36-1, WYTV. I was only getting about a 45 to 50% signal, but it locked in and looked great. If you have a high antenna with a rotor, give it a try.


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## Shark73

ABC is back up!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rlockshin

And CBS is down. Just spoke with engineering 440-845-1919 rings to the transmitter and they are down. Picture pops in and out. CBS is my weakest and definately the worst. It also has the most shows in HD. Lets work them over to increase power and quality


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## rlockshin

And CBS is down. Just spoke with engineering 440-845-1919 rings to the transmitter and they are down. Picture pops in and out. CBS is my weakest and definately the worst. It also has the most shows in HD. Lets work them over to increase power and quality


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## rlockshin

And CBS is down. Just spoke with engineering 440-845-1919 rings to the transmitter and they are down. Picture pops in and out. CBS is my weakest and definately the worst. It also has the most shows in HD. Lets work them over to increase power and quality


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## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *And CBS is down. Just spoke with engineering 440-845-1919 rings to the transmitter and they are down. Picture pops in and out. CBS is my weakest and definately the worst. It also has the most shows in HD. Lets work them over to increase power and quality*



CBS seems to be better now.


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## danton3

all is well in cleveland -- FOR NOW -- lets stay on it


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## Fred DeGrandis

ABC is back on, and I am getting a 100 reading!

CBS is still bad, but I will go check my projector(the readings I have been giving are from my mits)

I switched to NBC for a second, and there was a little dropout(and the signal was at 93(it was always at 100).


Way to go guys on the ABC thing, now we wait for a week or two before we pester them for 5.1 sound


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## danton3

a week or two -- i already called again - wondering why there wasnt 5.1- - i thought thats what they were upgrading i said .... lol


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## Fred DeGrandis

Ok, I was wondering why my projector had a decent signal, but my mits didn't










Just for fun, I replaced the wire from the antenna splitter to the mits, and pow, a 79 signal reading! I would still like to work on them more(this si the weakest channel out there, and members more than 10 miles may have problems.


I am going to snake the wire through the wall now










You have a good point Denton, now its time for 5.1 sound!


NBC also needs some love


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## rlockshin

CBS is still up. That number I gave for transmitter site could be valuable. Sorry for dup posts earlier


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## Shark73

Who are we calling today?


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## Fred DeGrandis

Today, lets call WEWS







(Thursday)

Give the head guy Ken Jackson a call and lets let him know that we are happy the station is up again, but we want 5.1 sound! Other markets have had this for almost 2 years now







, and now its our turn.


Please post after you call.



WEWS, analog 5, D-15, ABC

general 216-431-5555

Ken Jackson, chief engineer 216-431-3494


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## QWIKK6

well 5-1 looked good and steady for me but i couldnt get cbs at all. was it off last night?


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## ParsonsBri

I was very happy to see a great signal on ABC (85%). NBC is finally coming in just ok at (50-60%). But CBS is out again. Bums me out, I love CSI in HD.

I will call tomorrow. Just once, I would love to have all channels to chose from. Lets continue calling these guys!


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## Shark73

CBS is on now with a signal close to 90%.


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## Fred DeGrandis

I called an engineer last night who said that he didn't know when the 5.1 sound would be up, because their transponder is down, and he didn't think the digital channel was working.


BAsically, we have to annoy them more to get our 5.1 sound.



Parsons, we need to call WKYC too! I am getting it at 100, but every three seconds, it drops to 93. It sounds good, but there are bad audio dropouts here, and it bothers me.


Please keep the effort alive guys!


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## bassguitarman

WOIO is fine signal wise. It just isnt doing any HD.

I noticed that on football friday night and the movie 11-14 last night.


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## Shark73

Football on Friday night was not scheduled for HD....thus you didn't see it.


Not sure if the movie was done in HD or not....you should check the programming forum.


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## bassguitarman

The movie even had the broadcast in HDTV logo at the beginning


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## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bassguitarman_
> *The movie even had the broadcast in HDTV logo at the beginning*



Not sure what to tell you. I was at the local bar catching my Fins on the big screen and having a few beverages. I know that CBS was not having any preseason games in HD, but if the movie had the logo for HD then someone must not have flipped the switch in the control room. When that happens you need to call the station and ask for the control room and tell them that the show is not in HD....and to flip the switch!


Hope this helps!


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## Shark73

Is ABC down again tonight?


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## kagat

I live on the eastside and ABC ( WEWS ) has been down all evening. I thought it was a quirk in my antenna.


I got my SIR T-151 two weeks ago and have been getting all channels via the Silver Sensor.

I stopped using the dish two years ago so I attached the Silver Sensor to the dish and connected it to the Coaxial cable and have been getting all channels since last week with MNF having a gorgeous picture.

Tonite, CBS and ABC were down but Faux and WKYC were fine.


I tried the Optima ( UHF, VHF ) indoor antenna both inside and out but the loop did not obtain the UHF well, though 3 was good and 10 came in often.


Silver Sensor ( $ 40.00 at Sears ) is a UHF antenna but it not only received Channels 15 and 31, but also Channel 3 very well and Channel 10 ( CBS ) most times. The outside usage of the antenna is better than the set top.


I am grateful for the information in this Forum and it is most useful to me to hear that a particular channel is down so I don't need to go out and reposition the antenna.

Thanks to all.


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## EricHarrison

Well, I sent an email to the folks at ABC, Jim Baird, Gary Stark, Moreen Bailey, John Workman and Ric Harris pestering about 5.1 for MNF. Lets see if I get a response. I also sent an email to the folks at CBS, James Stunek, Judi Smith, and Lisa McManus, pestering them also regarding 5.1......


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## rlockshin

Anybody else notice CSI last night was not widescreen on the digital channel. Looks like they sere sending SDTV picture instead of HDTV. This is not acceptable. Call them


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## Mike_Stuewe

Rlsockshin I noticed CSI was SD as well. I was just flippin through the channels though. Didnt watch it all. There was during one moment CSI in HD. But later in the night it was all SD again.


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## Mike_Stuewe

I think we are getting SD during the US Open Tennis. I know some of the matches are SD only, but I think the Womens match on now should be in HD, and it isnt. I would call, but I don't really care. And I seem to recall that CBS Cleveland sucked so freakin much during the Masters and calling them didn't do jack.


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## Shark73

It's in HD now. Looks good!


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## EricHarrison

Did anyone else experience problems with ABC while watching the first 45 minutes of Any Given Sunday? The picture was in and out, sound all messed up...


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## Rbuchina

ABC was bad for me yesterday too. I wonder if the weather had anything to do with it? I hope they fix it by Thursdays' edition of MNF in high def.


Ray


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## intermod

My son and I noticed problems with the movie

just after it started, we watched in in SD for a while and when we went back to HD it was fine.

From your location the weather may Have had an impact, but I live across the street from the WEWS TX site and it was bad here.


/Dan


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## Shark73

I watched the PGA tour event on the digital channel earlier in the day and did not have any problems. However, I didn't watch any of the HD stuff last night, so I can't comment on that portion of programming. Just my 2 cents


I also suggest that we all call the station and let them know about the problems you guys had last night, so it's taken care of by Thursday night.


Jim


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## EricHarrison

Thats possible, I live in Wellington. But it sounds like maybe the station was having issues in the beginning, and got it fixed early in the movie if we both were having problems.


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## ParsonsBri

Yo fellow Clevelanders!

This thread has been so helpful and I think it is great that we are getting together to call these guys to keep the pressure on and letting them know we are out there.


The reason I am posting this here is due to the local nature of the thread.

Anyway, I need some advice on an antenna. I live in Avon which is about 25 miles from the "antenna farm". Over the past few years I have accumulated 3 antennas. 1. Terk TV42 (goes on the dish). 2. Terk TV55. 3. Radio Shack 160" boom length.


I know that the obvious choice here is to go with the Radio Shack model. However, I am somewhat limited in that I do not want to install a big ugly antenna if I can help it. I have had a little success with the TV55 putting in an east facing window (temporarily). NBC seems to always be weak no matter what I do. Others seem ok.


Any advice?


----------



## mofiz

hello

i live in akron as well, after trying few other antennas I finally got a outside antenna on my roof and wolla i get everyhting now, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and this worship channel but i forgot the brand name of the antenna, I know u dont wanna put up a big ugly thing outside but if u are successful otherwise i wanna know about that too. I live in firestone park area.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Parsons let me ask you this simple question.


Would you rather have a great looking picture on the TV, or a great looking roof?


Right, the TV.


So go put that 160" antenna up. Throw a rotor on that baby, and you should pick up a whole lot of great stuff. (like CBS out of Toledo when 19 is down).


Stu


----------



## Shark73

Well, game day is here. I haven't had the TV on much this week so I have not checked out ABC....are we still up and running with no problems?



Jim


----------



## thscott

I too am glad to see a local Cleveland thread going in this forum.


Regarding antennas, I live in Olmsted Twp. and tried numerous indoor antennas to no avail - none of them worked for me. I finally had a chimmney-mounted UHF/VHF antenna professionally installed and have been able to receive all 5 of the currently available digital stations.


So, I highly recommend going with an outdoor antenna. For the Cleveland stations all the broadcast towers are roughly in the same direction, so I don't think you need a rotor unless you want to receive Toledo or other locations as suggested.


I've read mostly bad reviews about the Terk 55 antenna.


Good luck!


----------



## paule123

I am trying to avoid putting up a big ugly outdoor antenna, too, and have experimented with a few things with mixed success. Both antennas were tested in a 3rd floor guest room with double windows facing the transmitters in Parma. I am in Shaker Heights.


1. Radio Shack 120" VHF/UHF double boom - installed this for Super Bowl last January - worked well on all DTV locals until the trees grew in summertime. Foliage directly in line of sight apparently blocking good reception. Also had problems picking up signal in heavy snow last winter. I'll bet putting this baby outside on the chimney and up higher would do the trick.


2. Now I am testing the ChannelMaster 4228 double bow-tie "mother of all UHF antennas". This picks up all the DTV locals thru the trees *except* is flaky on WKYC (NBC). Alas, WKYC-DT is on VHF channel 2 which this antenna was not designed for...




Hope that helps!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Seriously guys, I dont know what the deal is with some of you. Antennas are not big and ugly. They may be big, but they look cool, not ugly. So if you are gonna complaign about the look, at least have some dignity and blame it on the wife.


----------



## EricHarrison

Yeah, I agree with Mike_Stuewe. I live more than 45-50 miles from the transmitters, and my only option was going with rooftop antennae. I live in a newer development, and I am the only one who has a rooftop antennae. Its been up since last January, and noone, I mean noone in my neighborhood has said anything about it. (But they sure as hell will make comments if I dont mow my yard and it gets a little long.) I don't even notice it anymore, and I know its there.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Look, I will absolutely resort to putting up the big one if necessary, I just dont want to if I dont have to. Even with the bad reviews of the Terk 55, I get average to above average signal on all except WKYC. Not much there anyway, but I would still like to have it.

I guess I will continue to experiment only to put up the big one in the long run (that is if the wife lets me







)


MNF tonight and ABC is coming in strong as of 7:31pm. We'll see about kickoff...


----------



## Rbuchina

MNF was full of dropouts here in Mentor. I called and left a message on the Cheif Engineers machine. I asked about DD 5.1 too.


Ray


----------



## intermod

MNF looked fine here. I went to bed around 11:00

and did not see/hear any dropouts. FCC info lists

870KW ERP for WEWS. Wonder if your getting clobbered by "Airplane Flutter".


/Dan


----------



## Shark73

MNF was great in Strongsville. No dropouts or audio breakups at all. I thought they did a great job last night.


Ray....what kind of antenna do you have? If you're using an indoor all the way out in Mentor, that might be the problem.


Jim


----------



## mprusak

I did not have a single audio or video drop out during the entire game. I am in Olmsted Twp. I thought the game looked pretty good. Hoping to have 5.1 at some point this year, but not counting on it.


----------



## EricHarrison

Not one single drop out here in Wellington. The game looked awesome, and I second that thought of 5.1 soon.....


----------



## Rbuchina

Thanks for all the feedback on MNF signal. I guess its not WEWSs fault for my dropouts. I may need to take a peek at the connections on my roof mounted antenna. I think the low level here in Mentor is hurting my reception too. I need to raise the house about 50 ft.


Ray


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Hey guys,


Does anyone else want to join me in emailing WKYC Channel 3 and request that they stop multicasting. Points in my email that I want to get across is that no one watches 3-2, there is no reason. 3-3 is a waste as well cuz of the internet. But they should at least get rid of 3-2.


Leno looks horrible at night when ever they do a crowd shot because of the motion. And whether its SD or HD, sports look horrible as well because of the fast motion. They need all the bandwidth possible, and they chop it up with wasted channels.


Also anyone watch CBS today for the US Open. Good to see they couldnt have a flawless program. The audio was messed up as it usually does for a good couple of minutes during the Agassi match. You would think they could have the problem fixed considering how many times it comes in. NCAA Champ, Masters, and often during Primetime.


----------



## Rbuchina

The US Open was unwatchable for me in Mentor yesterday. The Browns game was fine before the Open. I had a terrible time with MNF last Thursday but WEWS was fine yesterday. Later in the evening on WOIO I had great reception on whatever movie they were showing. My reception in Mentor is so inconsistent its funny. I will try to get up on the roof this week to check out the antenna connections. I hope I find a corroded connector or something to explain some of the bad reception problems I'm having.


I will E-mail WKYC about their multcasting. What's the Email address?


Ray


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I dont see engineering listed for email addresses on the wkyc.com website. Does anyone know it?


Ray don't worry about the US Open being unwatchable, the audio was a joke during the entire match. The browns game was fine, but during the Tennis it was not. There were split second drops of audio every 2-3 seconds, it was super annoying.


----------



## Rbuchina

I had good reception for MNF on WEWS yeturday evening. CSI on WOIO also had good reception yeterday evening.


Ray


----------



## cristo28

Parsonsbri,


I live in Avon also, I played around with multiple antenna's for 6 months I finally went with just a plain old outdoor radio shack, and for the relative small dollar amount I put up a rotor and am glad I did, if you want to compare notes just email me and I will happy to help.


john


----------



## takosan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ben Music_
> *TAKOSAN,
> 
> From North Olmsted point your antenna southeast past the airport to the Parma tv towers. That should give you 70 to 100% if your antenna is on the roof. Slightly less if antenna is in the attic. WEWS CH 5-1 seems to be doing some upgading lately. Their signal is on & off, up & down, all over the map. Hopefully they and CH 43-1 will have it all fixed by the time the new fall shows start.
> 
> 
> Ben Music
> 
> North Ridgeville*



Hi Ben,


Got knee deep with work that I haven't been able to get up on the roof to re-point. I hope I can try it this weekend ... I'll try to point past the airport direction.


P.S. I was surprised to see how long this thread became since I first posted


----------



## rlockshin

WKYC cannot get rid of 3-2 as it is used for cable companies. Let's work on WEWS for 5.1 sound. Does CBS offer 5.1? If so bug them , too


----------



## Rbuchina

I could not receive WOIO early yesterday evening (8-10PM). The signal was fine after 10PM. Did anyone else have this problem? I live in Mentor.


Ray


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *WKYC cannot get rid of 3-2 as it is used for cable companies. Let's work on WEWS for 5.1 sound. Does CBS offer 5.1? If so bug them , too*



I don't understand this. Do the cable companies have antennae that they use to pick up the locals in this manner? How many cable companies actually retransmit an OTA digital signal? I really am completely naive about this stuff, but it would seem to me that even if WKYC does have to produce a digital signal of SD material for cable companies, that doesn't mean they actually have to broadcast it OTA.


I mean neither 5 nor 19 have digital SD signals broadcast, and they're carried by cable companies all over northeast Ohio. What's so special about WKYC?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Does anyone know what is wrong with CBS' audio, sounds like a skipping CD. currently watching the SEC football game of the week on WOIO. Happened before during CSI a couple weeks ago and last week during the US Open.


It better not happen during a browns game.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Anyone in the Cleveland area also have dropouts on FOX 8, 31. I think its a multipath issue with my antenna placement. Its a small outdoor antenna right now. Nothing indoors really lets me pick anything up. Anyways dropouts occur a couple times every minute. It happened a lot during the begining of summer, never in the spring. The last couple of weeks there signal has been received by my samsung t151 really well. Today though it is dropping out again. Rotating the antenna doesnt really help. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with multipath issues? Does anyone else have this problem?


Thanks Clevelanders, go browns.


----------



## ace5000

Hi Guys,

I'm thinking about picking up the Samsung SIRT-151 for some local HD here on the east side (Mayfield). Are the Browns games available in HD? WOIO?

Are there any other issues I should be aware of? Thanks!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

ace check out the hdtv programming page for NFL in HD info.


the browns will be in HD on WOIO next weekend as it is the main game on CBS against the 49ers. Right now the Patriots/Eagles game is in HD and looks awesome. The Browns will be in HD on MNF later this year against the Rams.


I like my Samsung, but I believe they have a new model that you may want to check out. Check the HDTV Hardware thread for that.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Oh, thought of something else I noticed while watching the Brownies. There is a ford commercial where the Truck goes on the screen from left to right. The audio from the truck goes from the right to left. I have always suspected that 19's audio is reversed, this is just another example of it. I first noticed it during the final four in March. Players would go to the right half of the court, and the sound would go to the left speaker, very annoying. Does anyone know this, has it been discussed before???


----------



## kagat

Ace


I bought my SIR-T-151 at Ebay for $220 plus $ 20 shipping ( Reconditioned unit , packaged by Samsung , looks brand new and works very well). I have a "Silver Sensor" indoor antenna but have it outside on top of my sunroom and I get ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox.


Monday night football is always on HDTV and only one ( so called national ) game out of seven every Sunday on CBS is HDTV, so Browns usually are not. Today it was the New England vs Eagles. Seems the Saturday College football game on CBS is also HDTV.


Fox ( NFC games ) is digital widescreen but not HDTV.


However, with the new season of TV shows, many will be in HD including " Law and order ","CSI'. " Judjing Amy " and the various CBS primetime shows.


Even without HD, the local channels are much better as Digital thru the SIR-T-151 than through Cable.


If you have a widescreen, HD ready TV, it is well worth to spend the money for the digital box.


Best wishes


----------



## MovingTarget

Hello all, I'm totally new to HDTV and just hooked up my Samsung 151 this weekend and I bought the Radio Shack HDTV antena with the amplifier. I've got it in my attic. I have the Sony HS10 pj. My wife and I are now totally spoiled with the great picture. I'm in Brunswick and get the 3, 5, 8, etc. that most everyone else gets. My signal strength is about 50% for most channels. I think I could boost this by messing with the position of the antena or putting it outside (which I would rather not due.


Anyway, where can I look to get a listing of all shows that are broadcast in HD? Is there a web site. I couldn't find one.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MovingTarget_
> *Hello all, I'm totally new to HDTV and just hooked up my Samsung 151 this weekend and I bought the Radio Shack HDTV antena with the amplifier. I've got it in my attic. I have the Sony HS10 pj. My wife and I are now totally spoiled with the great picture. I'm in Brunswick and get the 3, 5, 8, etc. that most everyone else gets. My signal strength is about 50% for most channels. I think I could boost this by messing with the position of the antena or putting it outside (which I would rather not due.
> 
> 
> Anyway, where can I look to get a listing of all shows that are broadcast in HD? Is there a web site. I couldn't find one.*



http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dstarlin/hdtv/Fall.htm


----------



## kagat

Moving Target


I too get 50 % , but with digital, you get an excellent picture or none, so you cannot improve the picture quality by adjusting your antenna. 75 % will be no better than 50 %.


----------



## StanZ

Try:
www.titantv.com 


You customize it to your local area.


----------



## Rbuchina

Stan,

I PM'd you.

I also wanted to get this thread back to the top.

Ray


----------



## MovingTarget




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kagat_
> *Moving Target
> 
> 
> I too get 50 % , but with digital, you get an excellent picture or none, so you cannot improve the picture quality by adjusting your antenna. 75 % will be no better than 50 %.*



Ya that's the way I understand it too but I mounted the thing on a snow scrapper that is connected to my rafter with a C clamp and I used crimp on ends that I applied with a pair of pliers.


I'm pretty sure that I can get one more station based on the angle that I mounted it so I'd like to give that another shot too.


I'm pretty sure I can do a better job mounting it but I was so anxious to get things going that I was mostly interested in getting it put together.


----------



## Cactus Matt

Has anyone lost WJW channel 8 digital signal power recently? I didn't change anything and for some reason it dropped down pretty low, but all the other channels are nice and strong... I don't get it..


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Terrible audio on the Georgia/LSU game!!!!!!


Get your heads out of your a$$es CBS


----------



## MovingTarget

Ya what the (*#[email protected](#$*&!!!


Can't we call them or something


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Audio is fine now, better not be screwed up tomorrow for the HD Browns game.


Cactus Matt I got 100% of Channel 8 here in Westlake.


----------



## Rbuchina

The Browns game reception was excellent. I only got to see the fourth quarter in HD though. I watched the first half at a friends house in SD and left to watch the rest at home at half time.


Ray


----------



## clvlndpunk

wow, this is great, now i won't have to do a search for "cleveland" i can just bookmark this thread. the browns game looked great yesterday after i finally got it in. for some reason i used to be able to get a very strong signal on cbs and for a little while now i've been getting no signal. i had to actually turn the antenna on it's side to get the signal to come in and i only got around 50% but it was good enough to watch. my biggest beef with cleveland hdtv is no 5.1 sound on abc or cbs. i feel like i'm missing out.


----------



## ParsonsBri

the Browns game looked great! Funny story: I invited my neighbor over to watch the game but he had already invited some buddys over to his house. He has a HD ready Mitsu, but no HD receiver (what a waste!). Rather than miss the free beer and burgers, I ran a 50 foot RG-6 over to his place and brought over my Zenith reciever. Before the game, they were all saying things like "no big dea, HDTV is overrated" and "I wont be able to tell the difference". HA! When the game started I spent the first quarter listening to them rave about the picture. It was pretty funny.


----------



## MovingTarget

Is any else not able to get ABC? I haven't been able to pick it up for the last couple of days. If you're getting it let me know, that means I need to make a trip to the attic.


----------



## StanZ

Coming in here in Mentor, even with Silver Sensor in my 2nd floor office.


Didn't you just make a trip to the attic?


----------



## MovingTarget

Yes but back I go.







I still have the snow scrapper installation. Maybe I should do it right this trip...


----------



## jtscherne

Just bought the HDV420 and the new indoor Radio Shack amplified antenna. I'm only getting the UHF stations (WEWS, WJW, WUAB) and they are not holding their signal strength. The signal meter keeps moving from Bad to Good and the pictures constantly drop out. I can't get either WKYC or WOIO. I live in an apartment and have to use an indoor antenna, so I may have to give up and wait on cable, unless someone has a suggestion. Thanks in advance.


----------



## StanZ

See Peter Putman's site:

www.hdtvexpert.com/ 


for benefit of his great knowledge and experience.


In addition, I find that the Silver Sensor antenna is superior to any other UHF antenna that I've tried. And it was the least expensive. I don't know who carries them now, but a search on this forum or on Google should tell you.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, I was able to improve the reception for the UHF stations. Of course, the only HD station this includes currently is WEWS. Anyone hear anything new about WVIZ? The information on their website hasn't been updated for awhile.


Of course, from reading here, it looks like the VHF stations are running at pretty low power. I may test another antenna, just to see what results I get.


I'm glad there's a spot that those of us from Cleveland can compare notes.


Joel


----------



## JeffreyTaylor

I upgraded my system over the weekend to include a Dish 6000u with the OTA module. I was thinking, based on comments found elsewhere, that I would need to buy a new antenna at it would be a while before I would be watching network TV in HD. Well, Friday night I hooked up my old Terk TV50 and it was able to pull in a couple of stations while laying on the basement floor. Sunday I mounted outside about 10 feet off the ground facing closer to 90 degrees where 47 degrees is the angle to the towers 15 miles away. With this setup I was able to lock in on all the digital locals. This was just too easy.


The only (very) minor problem I have seen, the system won't display 03-03. I can watch 03-01 and 03-02 fine, but 03-03 only flashes up for a brief instant when changing channels and then goes black. Has anyone seen this before?


-Jeff


----------



## StanZ

Sunday's News-Herald had an article by Jim Collins in which he 'interviewed' the local Comcast honcho. She says they'll have a demo the first week of October of HDTV. Then they'll begin to activate their Mentor and Elyria services.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JeffreyTaylor_
> *The only (very) minor problem I have seen, the system won't display 03-03. I can watch 03-01 and 03-02 fine, but 03-03 only flashes up for a brief instant when changing channels and then goes black. Has anyone seen this before?
> 
> 
> -Jeff*




You're not missing anything on 03-03, it's just constantly displaying their rather low resolution (and stretched) weather radar. On my SIR-T165 I find 03-03 very annoying while channel surfing as the tuner takes an extra couple seconds to lock onto the channel and display it. The tuner only gets the hiccup when passing 03-03.


-- Paul


----------



## Rbuchina

Jeff,


I also have the 6000 and 3-03 does the same for me. I have removed 3-02 and 3-03 from the 6000 in the local HDTV section so I don't need to scan through these needless channels while surfing.


Ray


----------



## Ben Music

I get 3-1 and 3-3, but only a blank screen on 3-2. What are you seeing on 3-2?


Ben Music


----------



## StanZ

3-2 is the digital version of analog Channel 3.


----------



## JeffreyTaylor

Thanks Ray...I will just drop those channels as well.


BTW, how do you jump from 9421 to 05-01? So far, I have had to go from 9421 to 100 then scroll down to 05-01 (or any other DTV channel). Is there a way to directly enter these channels in the 6000's remote? Maybe I need to open up that instructions.


-Jeff


----------



## Ben Music

Stan Z,

Thanks for your reply. I have a Toshiba STB-3000 and I don't see a listing in my channel set up for 3-2. Only 3-1 and 3-3 which both come in fine. Even if I punch in 3-2 directly into the remote, it says channel unavailiable. I wonder why.


On a side note, you must be right about Comcast HDTV. I got a postcard in the mail today that said "Catch the debut of Sunday Night Football (Browns vs Pittsburgh) on Comcast HDTV October 5,2003." They went on to say that you can get two months of Comcast Digital plus and HBO for free. They also will toss in a ESPN nerf football.


Just thought you might be interested.


Ben Music


----------



## Rbuchina

Jeff,


You can direct access channels with the 6000 by pressing zeros before the number. For 5-01, press 0-0-5. The 01 will come up by default.


Ray


----------



## Rbuchina

Group,


How was your reception of the Monday Night Football game last night? Mine was full of drop outs and pretty much unwatchable. Fortunately I was watching CSI without any problems. I was switching back to the game during commercials to check out the WEWS reception and all through the first half and into the second I would get major drop outs every 30 seconds or so.

WOIO used to be my bad reception station but WEWS has won out recently. The weather was terrible so let me know how your reception was if you live in the Mentor/Lake CO area. I may just need a new antenna.


Ray


----------



## Shark73

I watched the first half hour of the game and didn't have any drops. Flipped back and forth after that and still did not have problems. I turned it off at halftime so I can't input on anything in the 2nd half.


Jim


----------



## Rbuchina

Ben,


I also received the Comcast post card in the mail yesturday. I looked at the Comcast web site this morning and found out what channels they offer in HD. They have WKYC (NBC), WJW (FOX), ESPN, HBO, Showtime, INHD1, and INHD2. Not a bad line up but a few holes compared to my E* service. I would like to see a WOIO (CBS) and WEWS (ABC). I'm sure these will come eventually and I am intrested in the high speed modem service. Maybe I'll be back with cable TV in the near future. I do want to take a look at the new DISH 921 with HDPVR. Decisions, Decisions..


Ray


----------



## JeffreyTaylor

Thanks Ray...005 it is.


Last night we watched CBS from 9:00-10:00 with 4 dropouts during that time frame. I switched to MNF at 10:00 and watched it for 20 minutes with no dropouts. BTW, I am in Brunswick.


As cable companies start adding locals, is there anyway to tell how much they are compressing the signal (do any STB display the MB/sec like DVD players?)? I am amazed at the difference between Fox OTA Digital and the rebroadcast on my Dish Locals...the OTA picture is so much better (on a 7' screen). My wife refuses to believe that FOX OTA it isn't high definition. I am just starting to wonder if the cable companies will make these available and slowly start cranking up the compression (like Dish and Directv did) until we end up with something like DVD quality (or worse).


----------



## StanZ

Your FOX on DISH is giving you the analog broadcast. The satellite is digital, but is sending you from an analog source.


Our local FOX DTV signal is excellent. It's not yet high definition, but for typical network broadcasts that's not much of an issue for me.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *Group,
> 
> 
> How was your reception of the Monday Night Football game last night?
> *



Reception perfect entire game in Shaker Hts.


-- Paul


----------



## EricHarrison

Reception for the first half in Wellington was perfect, turned it off to go to bed after that, so I cannot comment on the 2nd half..


ERic


----------



## Rbuchina

It looks like I have a local issue with my reception. I may need to try another antenna or cut some trees down next spring. Maybe I should move.


Thanks for the MNF feedback.


Ray


----------



## EricHarrison

Clevelanders-

Looks like we are going to get screwed this Sunday. We are getting the Bengals/Bills game instead of the Game of the Week, Dolphins vs Giants, so no HD for us on Sunday. Looks like the folks in Toledo will get it though....

I have already emailed James Stunek, Judi Smith and Lisa McManus about this today, doubt I will get a response though....


----------



## Shark73

Sounds about right. We always get an AFC North division team if the Browns are not on at that time. Lucky for me I have NFL Sunday ticket and can watch my Dolphins in HD!!!!


Jim


----------



## jtscherne

I finally gave up with my OTA box and returned it. I just have too many obstructions. I then called the cable company to see whether they have any current HD plans, and was pleasantly surprised when I was told that Adelphia plans to begin HD rollout in the area in November.

Of course, I'll believe it when I see it, but the representative seemed well-informed.


----------



## MovingTarget

I actually just got a notification from Adelphia that all their service areas will have HD by the end of the year.


I'm wondering if they're going to compress the signal though. If they do will I be able to tell a difference between the OTA and cable? If not then I'll sell of my Samsung 151.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MovingTarget_
> *I actually just got a notification from Adelphia that all their service areas will have HD by the end of the year.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if they're going to compress the signal though. If they do will I be able to tell a difference between the OTA and cable? If not then I'll sell of my Samsung 151.*



Where did you get this notification from??? Can you please post it or send it to me via PM. I'm in Strongsville and would love to see what Adelphia has planned.


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## MovingTarget

I went to Adelphia's web site and asked a question from it. I got the following response:




Subject: Adelphia HDTV Services

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:33:37 -0400

From: "Rita Georgian"


Dear Chris Goumas:


Thank you for contacting Adelphia about our service.


HDTV will be available before the end of 2003. All local broadcast channels, HBO and Showtime will be available in HD format. To receive the HD signal, you will have to lease equipment from Adelphia at a small extra charge.


Thank you for your interest.

Rita Georgian


----------



## Shark73

Thanks for the post. I've sent then numerous emails asking about HD and have never received a response.


I'll try again.


Jim


----------



## EricHarrison

Well, here is the reply from CBS


Eric,

Sorry I didn't get back to you on the previous email. We've been discussing the audio, but due to the substantial investment in equipment required, we won't be broadcasting in Dolby for awhile yet. At this point we're still discussing capital projects for next year, so I couldn't even guess at a timeline.


All the Game Of The Week broadcasts are determined by CBS, and they're the only games in HD. They also determine what markets air which games under their "standard regionalization procedures".


Looks like no 5.1 for awhile from CBS...


----------



## jtscherne

As I mentioned earlier, I actually talked to someone in customer service. He said they recently had a meeting where the HD product was discussed. Unfortunately, he wasn't willing to discuss any specifics. All he said was that there would be mailings, plus notices on the cable system itself.


----------



## jtscherne

Also, Adelphia's email responses are definitely spotty. As recently as yesterday I received their canned "we don't know about HD because we have no money because we're bankrupt" response.


----------



## MovingTarget

I honestly haven't dealt too much with Adelphia but those of us poor soles in Brunswick were the last to get digital cable (just this past June), when they sent out their flyers I called and had a battle of wits with the customer service rep. I asked if they did or were going to carry HDTV and she kept insisting that HDTV was digital cable. :/


Hopefully their statement about getting HDTV by the end of the year is true but we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## rlb

Has anyone else noticed sound problems on the CBS digital broadcasts?


Last night the sound on CSI was very poor on my setup. I've noticed that other times recently on 19-1. I have no problems with the analog stations or other digital stations.


Thanks,

Richard


----------



## mchil

rlb - I'm in Akron, and I had the same problems last night, Both CSI and Without A Trace were unwatchable, had to resort to DTV locals. Not only the audio was poor, it was pixelizing a lot as well. Anyone know why it only happens sporadically?


----------



## Rbuchina

It ruined CSI for me yesterday too. I also noticed it Wednesday evening as I was surfing. This "cracking sound" was also present during the Masters coverage back in May.


Come on WOIO (CBS) !!! We're Watching and Listening.


Ray


----------



## EricHarrison

I just saw this today, but www.titantv.com has the browns game in HD on NBC 3-1....


----------



## jtscherne

That's interesting. I didn't know they could pass along the ESPN HD feed. I checked the WKYC website, but they don't mention HD in their press release for the broadcast.


----------



## Shark73

Sorry guys, but this will not happen! WKYC will not have the HD feed. ESPN does not allow the HD feed to be shown in the local market via OTA.


If you don't believe me read some of the NFL posts on the programming forum. Ken H has discussed this numerous times.


Jim


----------



## cristo28

Is ESPN HD Blacking out locally the Game? Since the Browns really haven't been on many Sunday night games these past few years my memory seems to remember something like a local OTA showing the game when it was on ESPN. Do I remember this right or was I dreaming?


John


----------



## jtscherne

They're not blacking out the game; just the HD broadcast. It'll be standard on WKYC. Titan TV is wrong.


----------



## cristo28

So it will not be on ESPN HD? It will be on WKYC? That stinks the one game I was looking forward to.


John


----------



## Shark73

Cristo....the game will be shown in HD on ESPN HD.


WKYC will show the SD version of the game.


As far as SD ESPN goes....I'm not sure if it's on or not.


----------



## cristo28

Thanks for all your help.



John


----------



## MovingTarget

Oh well, 3 OTA Browns games in HD this year would have been much too nice










BTW, that was a GREAT game!


----------



## Shark73

The HD broadcast on ESPN looked very good. As my buddy said, the Browns are 2-0 when in HD!!!!


Jim


----------



## Ben Music

For you Comcast people who haven't heard the news yet, they hope to roll out up to 7+ HD channels by 12/01/03. I was able to Beta Test the Browns game yesterday, and was able to do a Directv/Comcast A/B test, and to my surprise, Comcast won out.


Ben Music


----------



## StanZ

I received a letter today offering me digital cable with an option for HDTV.


They don't commit to anything precisely in the letter, other than a free installation and trial period.


So I'll call them tomorrow to try to get some details. A newspaper article yesterday indicated there would be a monthly additional fee for the HDTV option -- a major portion of that being the rental of the receiver.


----------



## MovingTarget

So does that mean cable companies have opted to no longer compress the HD signal? I wish I knew how Adelphia's HD will compare to the dish.


On another note, for anyone keeping track, I moved my antenna to outside instead of in the attic, took 2 tries though. The first spot I put it I was trying to pickup the signal through the peak in my house. This spot was toward the back of the house and would have looked better from the street. I was hoping just being outside was going to solve my problems. 6 unnecessary holes in my house, a cable splice (I could have avoided), and a tube of caulk later, and I'm finally enjoying all the channels with strong reception...Although I no longer get channel 68 which is no loss.


So, a note to anyone purchasing the Radio Shack HDTV antenna, mount it outside instead of in the attic.


Note to self, try to stop putting anymore holes in the house or your wife will take away your drill.


----------



## Stage3

I live in Akron, and with the roof top antenna that was left by the previous home owner I am able to get WOIO, WUAB, WEWS and WJWDT with all near 100% (20db+) signal. However I can only get short burts of WKYC (VHF channel 2) if I'm lucky. For the most part though WKYC doesn't come in at all.


Is the WKYC thing just me? Should I look at the antenna? From the ground it appears to be a pretty descent 80"+ Yagi with a UHF bowtie. A single piece of 300ohm twin lead comes down from the roof which I convert to 75ohm RG6 as soon as it hits the house. Would running RG6 all the way to the antenna produce much signal gain? Should I install an amplifier at the antenna? Should I get a new antenna?


Thanks for your help.


----------



## mchil




> Quote:
> I live in Akron, and with the roof top antenna that was left by the previous home owner



I am in the same situation, with an old antenna left by the previous owners of our house, and got lucky - I get all cleveland area digital OTA signals, including WKYC.


I think I would try to re-aim the antenna first to see if you can get WKYC without much signal drop from the other stations.


Here is a pic of my antenna, I have no idea what kind it is, just thought it might be helpful for comparison.


----------



## Stage3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mchil_
> 
> Here is a pic of my antenna, I have no idea what kind it is, just thought it might be helpful for comparison. [/b]



Looks almost like mine, but I'll take a picture tonite.


The antenna is aimed in the general direction of cleveland. Howver the antenna is really high up on one side of the house and would be difficult to aim. Is 3rd party service on this kinda stuff affordable?


----------



## TreyCarr

Just wanted to add my support for this thread. I too am in the greater Cleveland area and would love to help out!


----------



## Rob Ables

I just spoke with a Comcast customer service person, and she told me HDTV will be available in the Cleveland area (N. Ridgeville for me) by the end of this month. She told me the receiver is free, but I have to pay the $5.99 a month fee for it just like another digital box. She said no other monthly fee will be charged for the programming other than having to pay for the HBO or Showtime standard package.


She said (and their website lists) the following channels will be available in HDTV on startup:


NBC (WKYC)

Fox (WJW) Enhanced widescreen of course

ESPN

HBO

Showtime

In Demand HD1

In Demand HD2


I already have HBO and SHO, so if they indeed are giving ESPN for free, then I will have all seven channels offered

















It's about time!


Rob


----------



## MovingTarget

What no Discovery HD?? I hope that's available for Adelphia.


----------



## StanZ

I'm in Mentor. Comcast is scheduled to install at my house on next Tuesday.


The deal they quoted me, a current Comcast analog customer, is $14.95 a month for Digital Plus and HDTV and the receiver. The first two months and the installation are free.


It's amazing how serious they are about this. They went public with a demo on Sunday; I received a letter with the offer on Monday; and on Tuesday night we received a telemarketing call. (Since we're customers, they can telemarket.)


The times -- they are a-changin'.


----------



## rlb

My sound problems with the Cleveland CBS digital station (19-1) have cleared up during the last few days. However, now I'm getting frequent (every minute or so) pixelation or drop outs that last maybe half a second. I don't experience this on the other digital stations.


Anyone else having this problem?


Thanks,

Richard


----------



## tirepatch

I have always had momentary dropouts with CBS but very rarely with NBC or ABC. Some days CBS is good and on other days it seems to drop out. Occasionally it is so bad that it is unwatchable. I'm in Avon Lake.


----------



## Shark73

Richard,


I was having very bad drops during the SEC game on Saturday. I haven't watched it since then, so I can't comment on the past few days.


Jim


----------



## jjson

Here is the text I received from my latest query to Adelphia on getting HD:


Dear Mr. Henson:


Thank you for contacting Adelphia regarding services we offer.


HDTV will be available to you before the end of 2003. Local broadcast stations, HBO and Showtime will be available in HD format. A high definition television and Adelphia leased equipment will be needed to receive programming in HD format. There will be an additional monthly charge to lease the Adelphia equipment.


Thank you again for your interest in services offered by Adelphia Communications.

Rita Georgian


Since I have a tuner for over-the-air I would like them to offer ESPN and Discovery HD to make the switch more attractive. However, it is finally coming.


----------



## JeffreyTaylor

Discovery HD is a great channel, but I don't think many companies will add it without a $5-10 price increase (based of E* and D* pricing). ESPN HD is barely an HD channel. Playmakers and 1-2 sporting events are the only HD coverage each week. Sure the games look great, but they need to build more trucks before they can offer much variety. HDnet and HDmovies are solid channels. I think Comcast owns INHD1 and 2, so that is likely why they can offer an HD package without a price increase right now. It will be interesting to see what the various providers do to handle the increased bandwidth requirements and programming choices. D* is almost out of bandwidth until next year, while E* has space for almost 50 HD channels. I don't know if bandwidth is a problem for the cable providers.


Have any of the cable companies commited to providing all of the local HD feeds? Fox and NBC are nice, but without a (hopefully clean) feed of CBS I will stick to using my antenna.


Moving Target...6 holes in the roof...you might be able to use them to mount a dish and start getting DiscoveryHD this weekend.


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia has a separate website for Southern California and I've been looking at what HD stations they are currently offering there, since that was their initial HD rollout. It looks like they only offer ABC, NBC, PBS, HBO, and Showtime; no ESPN or CBS. Since nobody from Adelphia is giving details for the Cleveland rollout, I guess we'll just have to wait a little while longer.


----------



## TreyCarr

That sucks, I think I am ready to make the switch from D* to adelphia. I already use them for Cable Modem and get their "free" basic cable feed with that.


----------



## MovingTarget

Mr Taylor, 6 holes in the side of my house and I'm leaving for Maui tomorrow so I don't need no stinking dish THIS weekend.


----------



## Shark73

Say what you will about D*'s compressed signal. But it's much better than Adelphia's cable signal. When I had Adelphia it was the worst SD PQ I ever saw....the local NBC would have constant ghosting. I just couldn't take it anymore and switched to D* for a better PQ, HD channels & NFL Sunday ticket.


Adelphia would have to offer a lot to get me to switch back.


Jim


----------



## Shark73

On a positive note for Adelphia. They will offer the HD package to all digital service levels. From their website which has a new FAQ regarding the new cable TV plans available to customers. This is fine, but I would like to know if you can get the HD package if you only subscribe to basic cable.


"How does changing the packaging (and pricing) on the digital offerings get Adelphia ready for new services like HDTV, VOD and high-speed Internet? Will the increased rates I'm paying go towards putting in new services? What if I don't want new services?


The repackaging of our digital product is one step forward in Adelphia's mission to bring customers a broad and valuable range of entertainment and technology offerings. However, our focus is more about expanding customer choices than it is about providing every innovation available. Adelphia is exploring both HDTV and video on-demand offerings, and we are currently providing a base selection of HDTV programming in areas surrounding Los Angeles, expanding availability by the end of the year to a number of additional markets. In a number of key markets, the availability of HDTV for an additional $8 to $10 per month will be integrated into the unveiling of new digital cable packages and will be available at every level of service."


Here's the link:

http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entert...aks_faqs.cfm#1


----------



## MovingTarget

I used to have a REALLY REALLY bad picture with Adelphia, but when they upgraded the wiring in Brunswick in June, the quality got about 500 times better. Really a very noticable difference.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

CBS has been dropping out for a while. Since the SEC game. Signal strength stays the same, but picture drops so its a WOIO problem since all of us are experiencing it.


----------



## jgorman

Mansfield Report. Get all CLE HD channels with the exception of NBC. It simply does not have enough signal. When they first came on the air with HD a year or so ago everything was fine, a beautiful picture, escpecailly Leno, but now nothing. Analog signal is also the worse of all stations out of CLE. Anyone know if they have any plans to boost their signal?

Thanks


----------



## mchil

Anyone else experience frequent audio dropouts last night on WKYC? It happened all through West Wing and Law and Order. There was also the occasional pixelizing as well.


What causes this?? Is it atmospheric?(Weather was clear last night) Equipment? (all of my OTA signals are 85% and above) Or, is it the fault of the stations??


I just don't get why it only happens every now and then. Anyone have the answer? Do these dropouts happen to everyone?


----------



## LowDefinition




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mchil_
> *Do these dropouts happen to everyone?*



I can't answer for everyone but WKYC is a pain for me here in Brunswick. I get momentary drops 4 to 5 times an hour. My situatiuon is reversed from yours. "Sometimes" I don't get drops.


----------



## Shark73

All I can say is WKYC is very inconsistent....one day it's perfect and one day it's horrible. I'm using an small indoor antenna in Strongsville, so I tend to blame it on my setup, but I've heard other with outdoor antennas complain at times. I didn't wee NBC last night, but I did have a few drops during Las Vegas the other day.


Jim


----------



## JeffreyTaylor

MovingTarget...while you are in Maui, could you film your scuba dives in HD for me (I think that's as close as I can get to Maui for years)? In return, I'll throw a tarp over the holes in your roof if it rains while you are gone







. Have a great trip.


Looks like we should expect problems with CSI again tonight (still see reports of CBS problems). Is there someone at CBS we should contact tonight if we see problems? If we all call, maybe someone will look into the problem.


mchil, I noticed problems with WKYC before the Browns game on Sunday, but I switched to ESPN HD to watch the game and haven't watched channel 3 since. My signal strength is typically in the 80s, so I don't know what causes the problems either.


-Jeff


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JeffreyTaylor_
> *
> 
> Is there someone at CBS we should contact tonight if we see problems.
> 
> *




Try calling the programming department and talk to them or ask to be transferred to engineering. They have numbers on their website.

http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...4&nav=3Nic10Hf 



Jim


----------



## jjson

As you saw on my earlier post, Adelphia is "promising" HDTV before 2004. They indicated they would be offerling local stations and HBO/Showtime, not Discovery, ESPN, etc. I use a Samsung tuner for local HDTV so really will not see great improvements with the Adelphia upgrade (unless their signal is good and some of the dropout issues with local reception will then be avoided). I was just about set to go with Sat. but I will try the Adelphia offering. However, I have concerns about the following:


Has anyone yet been contacted by Adelphia about upgrading to HD? I haven't seen any advertisements, etc., and would assume this would have started by now if the rollout is really coming by December.


Does anyone know if Adelphia plans or is likely to offer more HD channels than they indicated in their e-mail?


Does anyone know what box they will use? Will they support 5.1?


How hard is it to sell a Samsung 151 at a reasonable discount?????


Thanks for any input


----------



## jtscherne

As i mentioned earlier, I talked with someone in Cleveland customer service, who said the service was supposed to begin in November. He wasn't able (or willing) to give any other information. He stated that the customer service people had attended meetings about HD. He said to watch for mailings, as well as ads on the local programming channel. I plan on calling back later in the month if I don't hear anything new before then.


----------



## ParsonsBri

"How hard is it to sell a Samsung 151 at a reasonable discount?????"


Check e-bay. HD Stuff seems to be selling well and it seems to be a sellers market. I just sold a Dish Network 6000U for $475. I never thought in a million years I would get that for it.


----------



## rlb

Adelphia HD Questions/Issues. Responding to jjson:


Other threads on this forum indicate Adelphia is using the Motorola 5100 in Southern California. I would assume they will be using the same box here in the Cleveland area. It does support DD 5.1 via an optical cable. The owners manual can be found at the following site (sorry, but you will have to type it instead of being able to click on it): http://gicout60.gic.gi.com/customer_...502403-001.pdf 


Looks like a pretty capable STB except that it lacks any means of changing formats (i.e., narrow, zoom, etc.) on standard definition programs. But it appears to be capable of outputting both component and

s-video/component at the same time. So you could run a 480i signal to the TV and use it for changing formats on standard definition programming (if you don't want it stretched out of shape). You could also send a signal to a VCR which provides the capability of recording a program in standard definition while watching it in HD (which is more than my D* STB will allow me to do). I use a lumagen scaler for standard definition, so I could also run a 480i signal to it.


The amount of HD programming Adelphia has will determine if I move over from D*. At a minimum I want all the locals (since the Motorola won't decode OTA digital signals) , SHO/HBO, and ESPN. Seems as if I seldom watch HDNET, and Discovery HD.


----------



## jjson

Thanks for all the excellent info and I will read other posts a bit more thoroughly before my own posting.


I also hope for more HD offerings then indicated in the e-mail though I will definitely opt for HD when it is offered (incidentally, I was able to go to the PDF manual directly from your URL--no need to type it out).


----------



## bassguitarman

Last night on CSI and Without a Trace


----------



## JeffreyTaylor

Same here...the digital feed was fine (besides the fact that we should have been seeing the HD signal) for the first 10-20 minutes of the show, but once they switched to the HD signal, the audio went bad. My signal was at about 80-85% with and without my antenna amplifer.


I sent an email to CBS 19...we will see if I hear anything from them.


----------



## mchil

I also sent an email to 19, let's gang up on 'em guys! I also had a very high quality signal, 85% to 90%, but horrible audio. I again had to switch to DTV, and watch fat heads stretched to 16:9










Let's go 19!


----------



## rlockshin

It is now 9 pm on Friday night. I have tried to watch WOIO for the last 1/2 hour. It keeps having drop outs. What the heck is going on with their engineers? Has anyone heard back from their emails that were sent? I guess we OTA HD watchers are just chopped liver to channel 19. We need to do something to wake them up. Channel is not watchable. All my other channels are fine signal of 77 has always been there for this channel. Ideas?


----------



## rlockshin

At 10 CBS has switched to SD format. I guess they realized that they were having problems. SD is not breaking up at all.Come on WOIO, fix this recurring problem


----------



## tirepatch

I also could not watch channel 19 last night.


----------



## rlb

I was even getting a "fuzzy" picture from their regular analog transmission via my outside antenna. The only good picture I could get from them was via the DirectTV CL19 transmission.


----------



## rlb

Tonight's Ohio State game is in HD on ESPNHD.


----------



## KenNEO

Here is a reply I got back from a WOIO exec. on Friday 10/10/03:


"We have not had any reports of dropout and bad audio from anyone for quite awhile. I need a little more information so I can look into your problem.


What is your address?

Is this a consistent problem? Daily?

Is it at certain times of the day, or all dayparts?

Is it during shows broadcast in HD, shows upconverted, or both?


Please let me know and we can try to find the cause of your problem."


"Jim Stunek

Director of Operations & Production

WOIO/WUAB

Cleveland, Ohio
[email protected] "


I was polite and sent him everything he asked for. I know most of you do, buy maybe everyone else could help out and send him some more mail too?


----------



## Rbuchina

Yesterday during the third quarter of the Steelers vs Broncos game the signal from WOIO began to break up on me after a solid signal for the first half. This occurred around 6 to 6:15pm. Anyone else have this problem?

The weather was perfect with no clouds, rain, or wind. I'm not a Steelers nor a Broncos fan so this was not a big problem to me. I was just enjoying watching the Steelers struggle.

Ray


----------



## rlockshin

I also experienced dropouts on WOIO during the game. The picture would go blank for 2 seconds and then come back. I have tried 3 different antennas and have experienced the same problem. It must be them. Sometimes I would see blotches of green on the screen. We need to bug WOIO about THEIR problem


----------



## mchil

"We have not had any reports of dropout and bad audio from anyone for quite awhile. "


As I have not heard back from my previous email, I just re-directed it to this contact.... Should we just give him the address of this thead??


I didn't watch TV all weekend until last night. We watched Cold Case on 19 and the broadcast seemed ok except for the occasional pixelizing.


----------



## Rbuchina

I e-mailed Jim at the address kenNEO showed in a recently post. I explained that I have found WOIO to be the most troublesome HDTV signal of the 5 signals I receive OTA. I pasted the link to our Cleveland thread and explained that he could look and see there are others who experience problems. The audio problems were also pointed out and I suggested an upgrade to 5.1DD would make them the "first" to offer it in the Cleveland market. I also invited him to my house with signal strength meters to look for himself. I'm trying to get a waiver from them so I can receive CBSHD via Dish Network. I am not going to hold my breath since I have several unanswered E-mails and Phone calls to the station so far.


Ray


----------



## StanZ

Re: WOIO


This is the most difficult HDTV channel for me in Mentor. I cannot watch it after about 9:30 at night. The signal is too weak.


And earlier in the evening I have to tweak the antenna rotor a little differently each day.


So they would be the best station for me to get through cable. But COMCAST does not offer CBS.


----------



## jtscherne

As you may have read elsewhere, UPN will be offering its Wednesday shows in HD, starting tomorrow. Anyone know whether Cleveland will be offering them? It's actually one of the three digital stations I can pick up over the air.


I've checked the WUAB website, but there isn't anything new there.


----------



## SteveC

Here is the reply I just received from Jim Stunek:


We won't be broadcasting in HD yet. I just received an email today from UPN Affiliate Engineering that they're deploying the receiving equipment to the affiliates. Cleveland is on the schedule to receive the equipment but nothing has arrived yet. So I unfortunately can't give you any hard date when we should have it up and running.


Jim Stunek

Director of Operations & Production

WOIO/WUAB

Cleveland, Ohio
[email protected]


----------



## jtscherne

Too bad... I actually would have watched Enterprise for that.


On an unrelated topic, I had to call Adelphia about something else yesterday and asked again about HD. This person was much less specific than the previous person I talked to.


His answer: "Soon."


That's it.


----------



## bslep

I am in North Royalton and got zero signal from WKYC last night. Did anyone get a signal?


----------



## StanZ

I watched from 9-10 p.m.


I'd say reception was very good -- just a few, brief dropouts.


----------



## mchil




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bslep_
> *I am in North Royalton and got zero signal from WKYC last night. Did anyone get a signal?*



Mostly good reception last night in Akron, with a couple of dropouts which don't normally happen with KYC...


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I have zero signal from WJW Fox 8 right at 7:30. Would be nice to watch the baseball game. Anyone else not have signal right now?


----------



## jtscherne

I watched the game last night with no problem. (Shaker Heights)


I also notice that the football game is full widescreen today on Fox!


----------



## Shark73

Can anyone on the Eastside of Cleveland pickup stations out of Erie, PA? I have a friend in Mentor that was asking.


Thanks!


----------



## jtscherne

The digital guide in my area has added the HD channels. They are in the 700's. They show CBS, ABC, Fox, NBC, HBOHD, and Showtime HD. No other information though.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Can anyone on the Eastside of Cleveland pickup stations out of Erie, PA? I have a friend in Mentor that was asking.
> 
> 
> Thanks!*



From Mentor, I point my antenna at 77 degrees and try to get Erie stations. None of them, analog or digital come in well enough to watch.


----------



## bassguitarman

I see Univision the spanish channel is active on dtv channel 34. Seems like they have a lot of widescreen content. Come on FOX and UPN, get with the program !


----------



## figaro

Adelphia confirmed to me, via e-mail, that they will be offering HDTV in Cleveland by the end of this year.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm actually getting a picture through my normal digital cable box on channel 708 (Fox HD).


I was able to get someone at Adelphia to take my name and number to let me know when HD is available.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Just saw univison on 34, pretty sweet. Check out the show Caliente on Saturdays, freaking hilarious.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I also noticed the WKYC is said to be on Channel 2-1. 2-2. 2-3 instead of 3-1, 3-2, 3-3.


Probably a mistake, but it sort of felt like the channels changed quicker, like it wasnt the usual delay that happens when changing channel. Maybe it was just late and I was just stoked the Marlins won.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

3rd message, I did a channel scan and was picking up TBN channel 17. Thats the Christian channel, they have 4 subchannels.


Mr. T. was talking right now. And MC HAMMER has a show Saturday morning at 2 am.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *I also noticed the WKYC is said to be on Channel 2-1. 2-2. 2-3 instead of 3-1, 3-2, 3-3.
> 
> 
> Probably a mistake, but it sort of felt like the channels changed quicker, like it wasnt the usual delay that happens when changing channel. Maybe it was just late and I was just stoked the Marlins won.*



Does anyone know how/why WKYC changed from 3-1 to 2-1? That's what my SIR-T165 is showing now.... BTW, I still get the channel changing hangup on 2-3, the "new" weather radar page.


-- Paul


----------



## tirepatch

No idea why the change but seems that it has changed for everyone.


----------



## Shark73

I just checked and my NBC has changed too


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I think I witnessed the change as I was watching Leno and after the baseball game. I switched to 3-1 and it locked in, on the station, then the no signal screen popped up for a split second and then the display read 2-1. No biggie, like I said its probably just a mistake.


----------



## Argee

Anyone in the Streetsboro/Shalersville area and if so how is the reception and what antenna do you use?


----------



## ZManCartFan

I just did a rescan of the locals, and I'm now picking up 21-1 (broadcast channel 20) out of Youngstown. I'm in Medina, and signal strength is about 40%. But I watched for about 15 minutes tonight, and NO PIXELLATION! Bye-bye channel 3! It's nice to have an alternative to NBC!


----------



## ParsonsBri

I too noticed the changed of NBC to 2-1. It seems the signal is stronger for me as well. Maybe a coincedence, but true.


On adelphia: I spoke to a local installer for Adelphia on Friday and he confirmed HD launch by end of year. He also stated that beta testing is going on as we speak in Westlake and only minor "tweaks" are needed. Nothing that should delay roll out. Good news, I guess. I wonder If I should have waited instead of buying those 2 Zenith STB's!!


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *I too noticed the changed of NBC to 2-1. It seems the signal is stronger for me as well. Maybe a coincedence, but true.
> 
> 
> On adelphia: I spoke to a local installer for Adelphia on Friday and he confirmed HD launch by end of year. He also stated that beta testing is going on as we speak in Westlake and only minor "tweaks" are needed. Nothing that should delay roll out. Good news, I guess. I wonder If I should have waited instead of buying those 2 Zenith STB's!!*



Well, for the time being you are safe with the two STB's because Adelphia and most other cable company's have not signed contracts with the local CBS stations.


Not sure how you are, but I could not deal without CBS in HD.


Jim


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *I just did a rescan of the locals, and I'm now picking up 21-1 (broadcast channel 20) out of Youngstown. I'm in Medina, and signal strength is about 40%. But I watched for about 15 minutes tonight, and NO PIXELLATION! Bye-bye channel 3! It's nice to have an alternative to NBC!*



You'd think that at some point in my life I would learn not to open my mouth too soon. Oh well, I guess I'll just chalk it up to being a guy thing...


Anyway, 21-1 has been in and out for me the last couple of days. Signal strength hovers between 35 and 40%, but it's been full of dropouts lately. It actually dropped low enough yesterday to prevent my HD300 from locking in to the station. Anybody know of a way to check how much power they're pushing and if there are any plans to up it in the future?


And is anybody else picking up the station in other parts of the Cleveland area?


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Anybody know of a way to check how much power they're pushing and if there are any plans to up it in the future?
> *



Here is the FCC plan:

http://www.transmitter.com/FCC98315/OHatwch.html 


Probably, only their engineer knows the 'plan'. But such people do answer the phone.


From what I see on a map you should only get Youngstown when the weather conditions are favorable -- you're out of normal range.


I have tried to get any Youngstown station, analog or digital, but have not succeeded. I'd especially like ABC, channel 36 digital, since it is in Dolby 5.1.


----------



## bassguitarman

If that table is correct no wonder DTV channel 2 (NBC) is so hosed. Only 9.3 kW ! I'm assuming that is to prevent interference tio their analog channel 3 and hopefully it willl go up when channel 3 goes off the air.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Thanks for the link, Stan. Interesting stuff.


It appears that the information was culled from the original plan from 1999. IIRC, there was a website like 10000watts.com (or something like that) that provided updated filing information for stations. I think I remember visiting once to see when the various stations were scheduled to go on the air. But, I believe that site is no longer free, and I can't imagine paying for that. Is there anyplace else that provides similar info?


----------



## Gary Day

I live on the west side of Hudson (on Rte 303). For me channel 3 is always very good. With a bit of a tweak on the antenna rotor 19 is usually good. Channel 5 has to be pointed just perfect to get a decent/consistent picture (about 50% success rate) and 8 & 43 almost never are watchable.


What do others get in this area?


----------



## SteveC

Be aware you can't compare signal strengths of two stations without also taking into consideration the channel they are broadcasting on. It is not apples to apples. It takes a lot more power to get the same coverage on a higher channel than a lower one. I was talking to the engineer at WJW a while back and he was really crying the blues about their electric bill. He said the power requirements to get roughly the same coverage on channel 31 were so much higher than channel 8 that they would almost certainly change the digital over to channel 8 when the analog would finally be turned off for good. He said it would save them a lot of money. The point is, you can't look at the power output of channel 2 and say it is less than that of channel 31 so their coverage must be less. It is not that simple.


Steve


----------



## bassguitarman

I know this is true but its not a 100 to 1 ratio. Besides the lower channels are much more susceptible to ionospheric disturbances.And I thought one of the goals of the transition was to free the lower channels for other non TV services.


----------



## Argee

I am out in Portage county about 4 miles east of Streetsboro. I put up an antenna that states its good for 120 miles VHF and 65 miles UHF. Bah, only get WEWS on digital and all analog sinals are terrible. Its been 25 years since we used a TV Antenna here and back then B4 cable we did get signals on all Cleve channels. I have to recheck the connections, I had a devil of a time putting a connector on the RG 6 at the antenna. I usually have no trouble crimping them on but I went thru 3 B4 one took. It may be that or at least I hope. I installed a wall plate behind the TV and broke the RG6 line there. I wonder what kind of DB loss those wall plates with double female connectors cause?

As the crow flies more that 25-30 miles away from the transmission towers.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *Here is the FCC plan:
> 
> http://www.transmitter.com/FCC98315/OHatwch.html
> 
> 
> Probably, only their engineer knows the 'plan'. But such people do answer the phone.
> 
> 
> From what I see on a map you should only get Youngstown when the weather conditions are favorable -- you're out of normal range.
> 
> 
> I have tried to get any Youngstown station, analog or digital, but have not succeeded. I'd especially like ABC, channel 36 digital, since it is in Dolby 5.1.*



I'm 200kW ERP at 760 feet on a tower 1.5 miles southeast of downtown Youngstown. "The Plan" is to maximize at 460 kW at the top of the tower after I do some more tower work and kick our main 13 ton antenna off the top of the tower. I have at least one regular viewer in Massilon and one just north of Pittsburgh 50 air miles away.


"The Engineer"


----------



## Argee

Well I disconnected my rg6 from the antenna this afternoon and just a bit ago I fired up the HD receiver and I noticed that all signal strengths were the same as when I had the coax hooked tot he antenna. Low and behold it looks as I overtightened the RG6 connector intot he matching transformer on the antenna and it twisted the shaft in the transformer breaking its connection. Off the RadioSHack in the AM to pick up a new balum transformer and treat it like a lady. Hopefully will have better results this time


----------



## Stage3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Day_
> *I live on the west side of Hudson (on Rte 303). For me channel 3 is always very good. With a bit of a tweak on the antenna rotor 19 is usually good. Channel 5 has to be pointed just perfect to get a decent/consistent picture (about 50% success rate) and 8 & 43 almost never are watchable.
> 
> 
> What do others get in this area?*



Gary - I'm actually just South of you in akron and I can get 5, 8 and 43 almost all the time with near 100% signal quality. (I'm using a fusionII HDTV card, w/ an existing UHF/VHF roof antenna that was here when we bought the house). I have only ever once received NBC (channel 2) briefly. For the most part I've given up on NBC for now. However, after hearing about the above results on Channel 20 out of Youngstown I may be re-aiming my anteanna or paying for a rotator soon.


----------



## mofiz

here is my input, I am in akron and seems like different tuners are capable of pulling down different stations. I have used Samsung 150, 160, Hughes e86, zenith420, jvc6000 and sony hd200. seems like zenith420 and sony200 are the only 2 recievers were able to pullin nbc,abc,fox,cbs,upn consistently with out any drop outs. I have a rooftop antenna and i have never had any problem getting nbc,abc,cbs,fox,upn with those zenith and sony. with hughes e 86 i was getting everything but nbc, same with samsung 150. but with samsung 160 my nbc was full of drop outs and was impossible to watch during the day time. so my recomendation will be try zenith420/520 or Sony HD200/300.


----------



## intermod

Lots of excellent info in this thread!! A couple of comments.


I have not seen any of the classic "Nov 1 2003" DTV stations listed from the station list I get from the antenna-web site even testing except for wqhs-dt 34 which is already on with SD. Any one else see anything?


I am also wondering how you guys with directional yagi's are scanning for channels? Do you "bump" the rotator and keep re-sc anning?


"Back in the day" one problem with TV DX'ing was the AGC system in the TV itself lowering gain as input levels go up. I had stacked channel masters for 11 out of detroit to catch Browns games till the lake froze over. The screen would just go "Black" as the array passed by channel 8. has the AGC system been implemented digitally now a days? I cant say that I have noticed any "Overload" on my 38310. I agree with MOFIZ about tuner sensitivity. I need to do some feedline work but I'm not impressed with the tuner in the 38310. I'm not using a pre-amp do to my proximity to all the locals.



Yesterday 30-oct-03 I did catch 27 from Y-town around 1630 local.


Happy Halloween!


----------



## thscott

FYI


I received the following yesterday from WVIZ in response to my inquiry about their HDTV status:


>

> Unfortunately, WVIZ/PBS ideastreamSM will not begin digital

>broadcasting this year. Unexpected transmitting tower issues are

>holding up implementation of digital transmission. As soon as the tower

>issues are cleared up, we will begin DTV broadcasting. At this point we

>don't have an estimate of when that will be but we hope it will be

>sometime in the spring.

> The November 1 date is the date of the first extension from the

>FCC. The FCC is currently processing our application for a second

>extension

>We are also exploring the possibility of feeding a DTV signal directly

>to local cable companies by fiber. If this exploration should prove

>fruitful, we may be able to provide DTV programming to cable subscribers

>before we actually begin broadcasting.

>

> Thanks for your question

>

> Gary Bluhm

> Chief Engineer

> WVIZ/PBS ideastreamSM

>


----------



## thscott

Was it just me last night, or has WKYC digital reverted back to 3-1 after a few days as 2-1?


----------



## mofiz

mine is back to 3-1 as well.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *I'm 200kW ERP at 760 feet on a tower 1.5 miles southeast of downtown Youngstown. "The Plan" is to maximize at 460 kW at the top of the tower after I do some more tower work and kick our main 13 ton antenna off the top of the tower. I have at least one regular viewer in Massilon and one just north of Pittsburgh 50 air miles away.
> 
> 
> "The Engineer"*



Wow! Talk about getting an answer! Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to you going to full power. Like I said, it will be great to have an alternative to (the multicasting) Channel 3.


By the way, the analog signal comes in "ok" here in southern Medina. I get a lot of snow, but it's watchable most days.


Oh, and I'm not sure about air miles. But downtown Medina to downtown Youngstown is 70.2 miles in a car. To get the signal at about 35-40% is pretty good, especially considering the antenna is in the attic, and it's optimized for the Cleveland antennae northeast of here.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

WEWS Audio has been horrible lately. Moving from center to left speaker, even on mono sources. I noticed it on the analog station though too.


Is anyone getting Univision on 61. Digital 34? I lost signal after getting it for a week or so. Not like I know whats going on anyways, it is in Spanish after all.


----------



## Argee

Ok, I fixed my OTA connection. When up on the roof I had forgotten my coax stripping tool and used diagonal pliers. It was not a neat cut/strip. This time I brought my cutting tool with me, redid the connector and low and behold I get digital 3,5,8,19 and 43 all with 75-80% signals on the meter. I also get 25 analog stations including the three Youngstown, Canton and what ever. Those signals are off the back/side of antenna so the pic(s) are not very good.

I live about 3-4miles east of Streetsboro and put a radio shack fringe yagi on the roof using the utility vent (stink pipe) clamp kit. About 20 feet off the ground is the antenna.


----------



## ultimind

I'm watching ESPN HD right now...GB vs. MIN in 720p and it looks absolutely fabulous! I see some people here complaining how all of their programming looks like crap...well it only looks that way because MOST of their material is upconverted from 480i to 720p and then MOST people's TVs upconvert that to 1080i...I've got two HD boxes...one on a 720p native HD projector and on a 55" Mitsubishi HDTV (1080i native) and they both look great in HD...even the 1080i upconvert looks perfect.


I know one of the Comcast install tech, and he told me a few weeks ago that over at Comcast they are ready to deploy all their HD channels and I should expect to see it start appearing ( the 7 HD channels) starting the last two weeks of November with an offical launch on December 5th (they'll start advertising it on 12/5)


Does anyone know if Comcast Mentor is planning on carrying CBS or ABC in HD? They only make mention of FOX (why? 480p sucks guys...i know they are switching to 720p tho) NBC, ESPN, SHO, HBO, iNHD1 and iNHD2.


I spent all my home theatre budget on my 720p projector and have no extra money to buy a HD box to get ABC and CBS over-the-air :-( Come on Comcast....it can't be that hard to add two local channels that are already broadcasting HD...


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Ultimind it all boils down to $$$ as to what comcast is going to be carrying on HD. And you can get a used Samsung OTA receiver for around 200 on ebay. You should get ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, UPN, TBN, and Univision all over the air. Maybe even some non Cleveland stations being in Mentor.


----------



## Gary Day

What is a FusionII HD card?


I did a lot of tree clearing this weekend and was able to get 5, 8 and 43 (along with my mainstays 3 and 19). But, all of a sudden I lost them again.


Twice this happened. Once Saturday afternoon, after being perfect from noon until about 3:00PM, and again on Sunday night at 7:50PM. All 3 went from perfect to unwatchable.


This is so frustrating!!!!!!


----------



## paule123

I inquired about the November 1 date I have been seeing on antennaweb.org and this is the latest from WVIZ Engineering:


"Unfortunately, WVIZ/PBS ideastreamSM will not begin digital broadcasting this year. Unexpected transmitting tower issues are holding up implementation of digital transmission. As soon as the tower issues are cleared up, we will begin DTV broadcasting. At this point we don't have an estimate of when that will be but we hope it will be sometime in the spring.

The November 1 date is the date of the first extension from the FCC. The FCC is currently processing our application for a second extension

We are also exploring the possibility of feeding a DTV signal directly to local cable companies by fiber. If this exploration should prove fruitful, we may be able to provide DTV programming to cable subscribers before we actually begin broadcasting."


-- Paul


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West's Cleveland Area System Manager updated me with the following:


"WOW! Internet and Cable is planning on launching HDTV on 11/17/03. The initial launch will only include the carriage of HDTV programming from CBS, ABC, NBC, and HBO. Early next year we plan on adding additional services in HDTV."


-- Paul


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *... I'm not sure about air miles. But downtown Medina to downtown Youngstown is 70.2 miles in a car.*



Here is an answer:


Distance between Medina, Ohio, United States and Youngstown, Ohio, United States, as the crow flies:

64 miles (103 km) (55 nautical miles)


Initial heading from Medina to Youngstown:

east (91.9 degrees)

Initial heading from Youngstown to Medina:

west (272.7 degrees)


See web site:
http://www.indo.com/distance/


----------



## intermod

I,m getting WEWS on 15-1?


I re-scanned channels every 20 degrees and I

didnt notice when it stopped re-mapping t 5-1 .


Anyone else ?


intermod


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *Here is an answer:
> 
> 
> Distance between Medina, Ohio, United States and Youngstown, Ohio, United States, as the crow flies:
> 
> 64 miles (103 km) (55 nautical miles)
> 
> *



Wow. Thanks, Stan. This thread has been great, and it's pretty cool how we've got several different mini-threads all going on. I don't know about anybody else, but this is one of the first places I check every day online.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Shall we begin to organize another phone-a-thon to our local affiliates for 5.1 sound?


Looks like there are many new names in this thread since the last time I posted, so if we all call in, it may yield some results


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by thscott_
> *I received the following yesterday from WVIZ in response to my inquiry about their HDTV status: ...
> 
> 
> We are also exploring the possibility of feeding a DTV signal directly
> 
> to local cable companies by fiber. If this exploration should prove
> 
> fruitful, we may be able to provide DTV programming to cable subscribers
> 
> before we actually begin broadcasting.
> 
> Chief Engineer, WVIZ/PBS ideastreamSM
> 
> >*



If that would happen and COMCAST would carry the signal, I would subscribe to their Digital/HDTV offering. As it it, I have the 60-day trial and I will cancel after the trial, because they don't have much coming that I don't already get Over-the-Air and/or Dish satellite.


----------



## Stage3




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gary Day_
> *What is a FusionII HD card?
> 
> 
> I did a lot of tree clearing this weekend and was able to get 5, 8 and 43 (along with my mainstays 3 and 19). But, all of a sudden I lost them again.
> 
> 
> Twice this happened. Once Saturday afternoon, after being perfect from noon until about 3:00PM, and again on Sunday night at 7:50PM. All 3 went from perfect to unwatchable.
> 
> 
> This is so frustrating!!!!!!*



Gary -


The Fusion II HD card is a PCI HD receiver card for my home theater PC. It's more or less a capture board with an HD receiver. I also use the S-Video input on the card w/ my DirectTV receiver and DScaler(software) to up convert my 480i signals to 1080i. The result is a very good picture. You can find out more about DScaler here and DVICO Fusion II here


----------



## [email protected]

Hey Guys! WOW what a great thread. I have been a long time advocate of HDTV programming in Cleveland since I purchased my first receiver in 2000. Recently I fell out of the HD scene when my son was born but I find now that he has hit the one year mark my free time is increasing. It is good to see that someone finally got a "Official" thread together for all of us to combine our resources and let the local broadcasters know we exist. I tried similar efforts in the past when I used to work for Audio Craft here in Cleveland. I now work as a Systems Engineer and do not have the "connections" I once had but I am willing to use what I have left to keep out efforts moving forward. Here are some of the threads I have been involved in previously to give some history.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=133127 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=137198 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=138904 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=144699


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Good to see you here Chuck!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Channel 5, WEWS is now stretching their non HD stuff to hit the screen. I dont really like it, it just makes me press another button on the remote to set the stb to pillarbox to get back to oar.


On another note:


I like Fred's idea, lets put some pressure down to get some 5.1. How much longer do we have to wait? No PBS? No WB? No HD UPN? No 5.1 for any network? Crappy Multicasting on Channel 3? There is a lot to complaign about.


----------



## Argee

Ok. How come the 4pm CBS game on 19 is not wide screen? Its supposed to be HD.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

They probably didnt flip the switch to the network HD feed since the Browns game ran past 4pm. I dont know exactly, you could give the station a call.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Channel 5, WEWS is now stretching their non HD stuff to hit the screen. I dont really like it, it just makes me press another button on the remote to set the stb to pillarbox to get back to oar.*



I agree, the stretching looks bad. Why does WEWS want all their people to look fat? My stb gives me no option to fix it.


Big mistake. Everyone should call and write them. We want the picture to look good, not all stretched and mis-shaped.


----------



## SteveC

I agree with you guys on the stretching on channel 15 - it looks bad. My guess is if you talked to someone in engineering they would just tell you they are doing what they were told to do. I'm not sure what dept. makes those decisions but the head engineer would probably know. Does anyone know his name and email address? In the mean time I'm been watching the Youngstown ABC affiliate on channel 36. No stretch there.


Steve


----------



## jtscherne

There are suddenly a lot of Adelphia threads, but this message is Cleveland-related, so I think it's best to put it here.


Not too long ago, the HD stations were added to the digital channel guide, and they've now been added to the channel listings on the Adelphia website (my zip code is 44120). When they first appeared on the digital box, there were channels for all locals, as well as HBO and Showtime. It looks like the initial offering will be much smaller, as only NBC, ABC, and Showtime remain. Still, it's a start, although the Adelphia office is currently saying it won't be available until January.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *There are suddenly a lot of Adelphia threads, but this message is Cleveland-related, so I think it's best to put it here.
> 
> 
> Not too long ago, the HD stations were added to the digital channel guide, and they've now been added to the channel listings on the Adelphia website (my zip code is 44120). When they first appeared on the digital box, there were channels for all locals, as well as HBO and Showtime. It looks like the initial offering will be much smaller, as only NBC, ABC, and Showtime remain. Still, it's a start, although the Adelphia office is currently saying it won't be available until January.*



I checked my zip (44149) channel lineup this morning and none of the HD channels were listed. I just checked now and they have the same three showing. I still don't know if I can justify the price of Adelphia when I get all the locals without much of a problem with an indoor antenna. Plus, I have Directv and their HD package. I'd like to dump the rabbit ears but at what cost! Adelphia will have to get ESPN-HD and a few others for me to even consider adding cable again. I have Directv mainly for the NFL and don't see how I could live without the D*Tivo STB's. Plus the HD-Tivo will be out soon from D*.


Thanks for the info jtscherne.


----------



## mchil

well, this is odd, Fox 8-1 dissapeared from my menu tonight. Is this happening to anyone else? Or is it something to do with my receiver, which is a Zenith 520?


----------



## intermod

mchil wrote:


well, this is odd, Fox 8-1 dissapeared from my menu tonight. Is this happening to anyone else? Or is it something to do with my receiver, which is a Zenith 520?


__________________


Nope, Your OK. I saw 8-1 was missing around 6:30, may have been some PSIP trouble over there, I just punched in 31 and it re-mapped to 8-1.


Dan


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

No HD in Cleveland for the CBS game of the week for the NFL. I called the newsdesk and complaigned and was given a BS answer about how it has to do with the commercials, and got Jim somebody's email. 2 weeks in a row, total bullcrap.


----------



## Argee

Tne CBS HD game of the week is Colts/Jets (4pm)and is not being carried in Cleveland as FOX as the double header.

It sure looks (and sounds good, 5.1) on the DirecTV feed though.


----------



## tirepatch

Hang on, I'm watching the Colts, Jets game OTA on CBS now and it is in HD.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

When this happens, call and ask to speak with Master control. They are the people that fall asleep at the switch, and they are the ones that can fix the problem.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Yeah after I hung up, they flipped the switch. Probably 15 minutes into the game.


Although Fox had the double header, CBS is able to show the game in Cleveland since the Browns were on Fox at 1. With the Browns on Fox, CBS could not show football at 1pm, so they can show the 4pm national game.


The Number I called was 771-1943, since its the weekend, I got the newsdesk number from their message system. That number is 367-7300. For future reference.


And this is a pretty high scorin' game right now.


----------



## Argee

I did not even bother to look for the game on 19 as DirecTV screwed up and did not black it out the way they usually do to Sunday ticket games that are broadcast on a local station. The 5.1 sound was really sweet and we do need to pressure the Cleveland stations to go that route.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Argee_
> *DirecTV screwed up and did not black it out the way they usually do to Sunday ticket games that are broadcast on a local station.*



All CBS HD games are shown on channel 70 with the NFL Sunday ticket. CBS stated that the blackout rules WILL NOT apply to the HD broadcast through the NFL Ticket.


----------



## SteveC

When did CBS start sending 5.1 to their affiliates? I had heard they had some infrastructure problem with their satellites that did not allow them to do 5.1. Has that been overcome?


Steve


----------



## PPS

Speaking of WOIO has anyone noticed a slight shift in their color towards yellow?

My projector was down for a couple of months and the first thing I noticed when I fired it back up was this shift toward yellow on WOIO. I do not notice this on any of the other stations.


----------



## Rbuchina

We all must be getting good reception on our locals this past week. I needed to dig down 6 pages to find the thread. I have not been watching much TV lately due to a kitchen remodel I'm working on at home. I did notice two minor drop outs during ER last night on WKYC.


Ray


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *We all must be getting good reception on our locals this past week.
> 
> Ray*



I haven't been able to get WOIO after dark for a couple of months. (An email to their engineer merited no response.


Channel 61/34 Univision came for a week or so and has vanished.


Comcast has not added any HD stations. ESPN HD, their one offering, tears (rhymes with 'shares') up a lot. That's a defect I've never seen in OTA digital. It must have something to do with QAM technology.


----------



## Ben Music

Stan,


You might want to double check your Comcast channel list. Maybe you have to call your local office to have it turned on. Over here in North Ridgeville I'm getting the following HDTV channels.


773-ESPND

774-INHD

775-INHD2

778-SHOHD

779-HBOHD

781-DWKYC

783-DWJW


I must say that when compaired to Directv, Comcast wins. The head end tech tells me that they are running at a full 19.7.

Check them out and let me know what you think.


Ben Music


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *I did notice two minor drop outs during ER last night on WKYC.
> 
> 
> Ray*



I noticed three or four pixellation problems as well as 3 or 4 outright drop outs where the sound would continue but the picture went black for 1 or 2 seconds. It got to the point that my wife asked me to switch to the regular (DirecTV) channel. I didn't, though.










Also, the past couple of weeks I've been watching the Buckeyes games on DirecTV channel 5. For anyone who has watched the digital channel, did the picture ever "go green" and slide around the screen when the commercial breaks would start / stop? I know that's not much of a description, but it kind of looked like what you used to see when the end of the film rolled by the projector lamp. Except green as well. The picture would come back after a second or two.


Just wondering if it's a DirecTV thing, Channel 5 thing, or a hardware issue.


----------



## ParsonsBri

I know this is a long shot, but any chance the OSU MICH game will be in HD?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *I know this is a long shot, but any chance the OSU MICH game will be in HD?*



No. ABC does the big ten and they don't have the trucks available to due college and NFL.


----------



## cristo28

no, sorry....


----------



## Dweezilz

Per request, I'm copying this post into this thread. Not sure if the subject came up here yet:


Well, I'm still in a state of shock. Looks like Adelphia is actually doing something positive for a change. While my buddy was talking to their tech support about his digital cable box being out, he asked about HDTV since he just purchased one. The guy said it was coming out Jan 1st. I had a hard time believing this so I called Adelphia corp. customer service & sure enough, it's 100% true. The woman I spoke to didn't know what programming would be but she confirmed they had a launch date of late December but pushed to the 1st of the year. So, HDTV will be available on Adelphia in Cleveland Ohio very soon.


-Todd


----------



## MovingTarget

They didn't happen to mention if Discovery HD and ESPN HD were going to be offered did they?


If not then I'll probably stick with my OTA setup.


----------



## jtscherne

At this point, all that is known is that the system is being tested, with rollout coming "soon". The three stations currently appearing on the programming guide are still ABC, NBC, and Showtime. I've read on HDTVPub.com that HBO will be right behind, but nothing is official yet, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## prevman

How are you getting those channels? I'm in North Ridgevlle, and I still only have 773... Just called and they told me that those channels are not launching until monday (Dec 1).. Did you have to do anything to get those channels?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ben Music_
> *Stan,
> 
> 
> You might want to double check your Comcast channel list. Maybe you have to call your local office to have it turned on. Over here in North Ridgeville I'm getting the following HDTV channels.
> 
> 
> 773-ESPND
> 
> 774-INHD
> 
> 775-INHD2
> 
> 778-SHOHD
> 
> 779-HBOHD
> 
> 781-DWKYC
> 
> 783-DWJW
> 
> 
> I must say that when compaired to Directv, Comcast wins. The head end tech tells me that they are running at a full 19.7.
> 
> Check them out and let me know what you think.
> 
> 
> Ben Music
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## Ben Music

Rob and prevman,


As I mentioned in a earlier post, I am a beta tester for Cleve/No Ridgeville Comcast area. For about the last month or so I've been testing the Motorola 5100 HDTV set top box and all the 7 HDTV channels that I listed before. If you have ESPNHD (CH 773) on your box now, you should be able to get the other 6 on or after Dec 1st, which I understand is the official Cleve/Comcast rollout date.


I don't know if this will be automatic,or not. If nothing shows up on Dec 1st, then give your local area Comcast a call.


More good news: I just found out this morning that next on the list will be 4 more digital channels to be added very soon. They will include Cinemax HD, STARZ HD, ABCHD (WEWS Ch 5) and the WB Digital.


Hope this helps,

Ben Music


----------



## paule123

Update re Wide Open West - I called today and scheduled an install for Dec 13 for their HD service. I am in Shaker Heights and currently have their basic cable analog package. Phone rep stated that the following HD channels will be provided: ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC. I asked him about ESPN, he said "hopefully soon", I suggested they get inHD - he was not familiar with that but would put a request in to marketing. I think he said HBOHD was included in the HBO package (extra 10.00/mo), but I am not getting the HBO package, so I didn't remember exactly.


So the deal is $47.00/mo for basic analog cable + $11.00/mo for digital cable = $57.99/mo. I was not required to get the $11.00 digital cable package to get HD -- the rep said HD is *included* in basic cable or digital cable package, no extra charge for the HD converter (kinda scratching my head on that one...)


I will post an update here after the install...










-- Paul


----------



## MovingTarget




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Update re Wide Open West - I called today and scheduled an install for Dec 13 for their HD service. I am in Shaker Heights and currently have their basic cable analog package. ...*



Paul, who are you talking about when you say "their basic cable analog package"? Comcast or Adelphia. I'm hoping you're talking about Adelphia but your post just isn't clear.


----------



## rlb

Moving Target, Paul is talking about the Cable Company "Wide Open West" (WOW) which provides service in some of the Cleveland suburbs. In North Royalton, we have a choice between Adelphia and WOW.


----------



## Rob Ables

Thanks Ben for the information. The guy at Comcast was wondering how you had them already. I missed that you were a beta tester (how do you get to be one anyway?)


The guy I talked to said they moved the rollout back to December 3rd for some reason instead of the 1st. It would have been nice to have them for the holiday weekend, but I guess I will have to wait.


Glad to see some fellow Ridgeville folk on the forum.


Later all.


Rob


----------



## KurlonT

Hi guys,

I just got HD from Time Warner about a week ago and overall

I am pretty happy w/ it. Had my HDTV for about 2 years now so

it's a joy to finally use the "HD" part.


Here is what TW offers for programming:

(TW requires you to have digital cable but the HDTV upgrade is free)


High definition Channel Line-Up:


Position Channel

380 HBO East HD

381 HBO West HD

390 Showtime East HD

391 Showtime West HD

508 WJW Fox 8 Cleveland

521 WKYC NBC 3 Cleveland

551 WEWS ABC 5 Cleveland

554 Discovery HD Theater

555 In Demand HD

556 In Demand HD 2


I got to see HBO and SHO for a bit till they turned them off

as I only got the basic digital package. The movies looked really

crisp although both HBO's signal dropped out a lot.


WJW was pretty good but had uneven cropping for the R/L bars and

WKYC seemed to display what looked like EDTV picture. WEWS was

clean and crisp but many of its programs had those annoying larger

cropping bars.


DiscHD, InHD1 and InHD2 all have a wonderfull, clean, crisp HD picture.

DiscHD would get some compression but those are pretty rare.


Eventually I will save up for a HD receiver for OTA since the house already

had a antenna installed. Not sure what brand since getting on the

roof sounds like something to do when summer comes back.


Hopefully CBSHD, ESPNHD, PBS HD and WBHD are on the way but

just glad to have HD so I am not greedy







.


----------



## prevman

It appears that Cleveland Comcast's HD feeds have been set as active. When I woke up this morning I was successfully able to tune the box to 774, (didn't really have time to check the other channels). But I am assuming the other channels are active as well! Yahoo.. HD sopranos in March!





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ben Music_
> 
> *Rob and prevman,
> 
> 
> As I mentioned in a earlier post, I am a beta tester for Cleve/No Ridgeville Comcast area. For about the last month or so I've been testing the Motorola 5100 HDTV set top box and all the 7 HDTV channels that I listed before. If you have ESPNHD (CH 773) on your box now, you should be able to get the other 6 on or after Dec 1st, which I understand is the official Cleve/Comcast rollout date.
> 
> 
> I don't know if this will be automatic,or not. If nothing shows up on Dec 1st, then give your local area Comcast a call.
> 
> 
> More good news: I just found out this morning that next on the list will be 4 more digital channels to be added very soon. They will include Cinemax HD, STARZ HD, ABCHD (WEWS Ch 5) and the WB Digital.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Ben Music*


----------



## Steve B

I must be doing something wrong - I am getting none of these channels (maybe too late at night - 1am?). Shouldn't they be on 24/7?


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Steve B_
> *I am getting none of these channels (maybe too late at night - 1am?). Shouldn't they be on 24/7?*



I picked them up in Mentor on 12/1. I first checked at about 4 p.m.


----------



## Russell Bower

For general information

Cox Cable just added

Bravo+

ESPNHD

INHD

INHD2

Discovery HD theater for 4.95 month first 6 months free

They already had HBO HD, ShowtimeHD, WOIOdtv, WEWSdts, and WUABdtv


----------



## prevman

All of the channels look great with the exception of HBO which appears to be having Issues! Anybody else notice this?



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *I picked them up in Mentor on 12/1. I first checked at about 4 p.m.*


----------



## jtscherne

I'm getting frustrated with all the other local cable companies offering service, while I can't get a straight answer from Adelphia! I call every other day and I haven't been given a specific date yet. Today I was told "maybe February". Of course, I could have called a half hour later and been told something completely different.


----------



## Cactus Matt

Monday nights game was going in and out on WEWS 5-1. I would have a 85% signal then all of a sudden it would die out and give me crap for a second, then come back. This happen several times a minute and was pretty close to unwatchable. Every other channel I normally get was fine. Anyone have the same thing Monday night?


----------



## PPS

Cactus,


I believe you were having problems because of high wind conditions. If you live in an area with a lot of trees the wind increases the problem.

I just have an indoor antenna for my set up and have been having a lot of this happening lately. Monday being the most recent. It got so bad Monday that the loss of signal locked up my DTC 100 and I had to reboot it.


PPS


----------



## StanZ

Some of us can now compare signal quality from over-the-air antenna with quality from our cable provider. This problem Monday night with WEWS is a case in point.


----------



## jtscherne

I just signed up for Adelphia HD (Cleveland area; 575-8000). They are delivering the box on Saturday. They had to schedule it as an all-day appointment, but I don't care... They indicated that the box charge is $7.50 per month, but they are giving it to me for $3.50 per month for the first two months. I know the initial offering is slim, but I'll take what I can get for starters.


Keeping fingers crossed. I'll post again after installation.


----------



## Rob Ables

My Comcast HD channels were on 12/1 as well. I have been at work almost non stop since Monday morning because of a server crash, but I had time to check out a little last night. Watched part of Clockstoppers on Showtime. It looked good, but had some dropouts. I also watched 24 on Fox's high res channel. Not as good as the other HD channels, but better than the regular channel for sure.


Glad to finally have some choices!


Happy viewing everyone!


Rob


----------



## rlb

Jtscherne, after your adelphia HD installation, please let us know what they are using for the box. Is it Motorola or SA and which model?


Thanks,

Richard


----------



## Shark73

I just received this email from Adelphia today---I'm in Strongsville


Hello everyone,

I apologize for sending this email as my 1st contact to you, however I have not been able to talk to you via phone. In response to the inquiries you sent to our offices regarding HDTV, I am happy to announce that you will be given the opportunity to be one of the first to subscribe to our service. Currently we only have 4 channels that broadcast in HD which are ABC, NBC, HBO and Showtime. We are working on obtaining the rest. Because you inquired about this service first, you will be given a 2 month promotional offer of $3.50 per month. This new box will replace your old digital box ( @$3.50 per month) thus this service is free for 2 months. There is no charge for ABC or NBC, but you must subscribe to HBO or Showtime to receive the HD feed. After the two month promotion, the price for the HD equipment will go to $8.95 per month and hopefully the balance of the HD programming will be in place. Please call 216-575-8000 for additional information in regards to having a technician come to your home to install the equipment (no charge) or for you to pick up the equipment at one of our payment centers.


Thank you for your patience

Steve Marshall

Marketing Coordinator


----------



## jtscherne

I just went to two walk-in centers (Severance and Euclid Ave.). Neither of them had the boxes yet; they both were expecting them in, but don't have them in. Luckily I still have the Saturday appointment, so I'll wait until then.





> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *I just received this email from Adelphia today---I'm in Strongsville
> 
> 
> SNIP
> 
> Please call 216-575-8000 for additional information in regards to having a technician come to your home to install the equipment (no charge) or for you to pick up the equipment at one of our payment centers.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your patience
> 
> Steve Marshall
> 
> Marketing Coordinator*


----------



## Shark73

Is anyone else having audio problems with CBS tonight? I'm trying to watch CSI and the audio is horrible.


Jim


----------



## panjj

I signed up and installed Adelphia HDTV yesterday afternoon--scientific atlanta box with DVI option. At this time they are only offering ABC and NBC local HDTV along with HBO and Showtime HD. They indicted they would offer all HD channels available within three months (we shall see). However, they did say they will have a DVR box available by February. They let me take the box and install myself--however, I had some reception problems and the service people (by phone) indicated that they will have a policy that a service visit is mandatory and they will not let the user just pick up the box. Get there soon before they implement this policy. Cheers.


----------



## Rbuchina

Shark73,

I had audio problems on CSI last night also. I receive CBS OTA. It was a weird strobe light effect of the sound that would jump in every now and then.

Ray


----------



## Shark73

I just picked up my HD box from Adelphia in Strongsville. Haven't installed it yet, but I will do so this evening and will let everyone know how the PQ looks.


Jim


----------



## Shark73

Ok. I setup the Explorer 3250 HD box that I got from Adelphia today. As reported the channels they offer are NBC, ABC, HBO & SHO. I only went with the HBO package for the time being, as I get SHO with DirecTv. I checked the PQ of HBOHD on both Adelphia and DirecTv and they look the same to me.


Does anyone know if Adelphia is compressing the signal at all? I know that D* uses a system to compress the signal when needed but the PQ looked the same from both providers.


Now I wait to see what HD channels Adelphia adds in the coming months.


panjj - do you know if that PVR will be for HD & SD shows or just SD?


Thanks!


Jim


----------



## jtscherne

I hope they get CBS by the Super Bowl and INHD by baseball season!


----------



## jtscherne

This rant isn't specifically HD-related, but it certainly is a cautionary tale.


I scheduled my HD hookup on Wednesday. They gave me today (Saturday) as my installation date, between 8:00 and 5:00. They wouldn't give me a more specific time. I re-arranged some things and began my wait. At approximately 4:45, I called in to Adelphia, because I was obviously concerned. After being transferred once, I was told that my appointment had been cancelled. At first, the man couldn't say why, but he finally indicated that they had run out of boxes.


Obviously, I was angry because I had a scheduled appointment, so I assume they had a box, but more importantly, the appointment was cancelled and NOBODY contacted me to tell me. By this time, my anger was certainly at its peak. I asked to speak to a supervisor and he took down the information, promising that I would be contacted within 24 hours.


At this point, I remembered that the Severance office was open until 6:00 p.m. on Saturday, and I quickly drove over there. Luckily, they still had a few boxes, so I was able to pick it up and installed it immediately. Everything seems to be working properly. I would have done this in the first place had I known my appointment had been cancelled.


I will be angry for quite awhile and I only wish I had a viable alternative so I could cancel Adelphia.


Anyway, end of rant.


----------



## Oswald

What happened to the SEC Championship game? Was HD... now it's not. What gives WOIO-DT?


----------



## Shark73

Call the newsline phone number and ask for the control room. Ask them nicley to flip the switch for the HD game. Usually, that does the trick.


Jim


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

More audio trouble for the Denver KC game right now. Its probably for the best though, I got finals to study for tomorrow


----------



## Oswald

Yeah.....Lousy echo temporarily. It did the same last night during SEC championship game. And these guys are gonna broadcast the Super Bowl. Oh my! I'm sure they're doin' their best. And, I'm glad it's not just me noticing it.


----------



## Shark73

No audio trouble with the HD game through NFL Sunday Ticket....it must be local. I wish they would get their act together and switch over to 5.1 audio already. It would be nice to have 5.1 for the playoffs and Super Bowl. I've been spoiled with the great sound this season over D*.


----------



## panjj

I was given no specifics on the DVR and I assume we will have to wait to see what box, options are offered.


On the installation issues: I had scheduled a Sat. visit by service to check on a sound issue I was having and had a long talk with the service agent on the phone. He opened the conversation by saying they would not be coming because they had not yet offered HDTV service. I told him I was watching HBO HDTV with their box at that exact moment. In his favor, he was very suprised, and angry, saying he had a HDTV set and was looking forward to the service himself, that there was a big communication problem and he would check on Monday. He did not have any boxes so that is why you probably had your apt. cancelled. I hope this is just a little glitch and not symtomatic of future problems with the HDTV rollout (recall they were going to do the rollout in late Dec. or early Jan. so the bump up may have not been planned to well). How about that for a positive attitude!


Good luck and hope the additional channels come very soon.


----------



## Ilya

Hi everyone! I am new to HDTV. Just bought my first HDTV set 2 weeks ago and signed up to VOOM DSS, since Adelphia was too slow rolling out their HDTV service. I am now enjoying 26+ HDTV channels and am extremely happy with the PQ.


However, I am still struggling with local (Cleveland) OTA channels (VOOM receiver has OTA capability and the dish install includes the OTA antenna). Currently I can only receive ch.3-1 and ch.5-1 (ABC and NBC). I am not getting any signal on channels 8-1, 19-1, 43-1, etc. Some say it is a mapping problem in the receiver, others say the antenna is not pointing in the right direction. Installers promised to resolve this problem, but I haven't heard back from them yet.


1. Could someone please confirm that all the above DTV channels are available in Cleveland area? How far from Cleveland?


2. In which direction the antenna should be pointing to? (FYI, I am in Southern part of Solon.)


3. What kind of antenna do you have, if it matters?


4. What signal strength are you getting for each channel?


5. Can anyone receive other OTA channels in addition to those 5?


Your comments will be greatly appreciated!


----------



## figaro

I am on the lakefront near downtown Cleveland (Quay 55 apartments) and I have been using a "rabbit's ears" amplified indoor antenna (i'm on the top floor). OTA, I receive NBC 3-1 (40 signal strength), ABC 5-1 (78 ss), FOX 8-1 (88 ss) and UPN 43-1 (70 ss). My antenna is pointed towards the southwest. There are other posts that have URL linkages to sites where you can gte very specific antenna aiming details.


Last Thursday, I picked up an HD cable box from Adelphia (Scientific Atlanta) as a result of seeing some earlier posts on this Forum. For the next 2 months while Adelphia is deploying their HD system, they are not charging me anything extra for the HD box (same price as just digital cable). Currently I receive NBC HD, ABC HD, HBO HD and SHO HD. They all look great to my untrained eye. Adelphia "promises" to add CBS HD, ESPN HD within the next month.


----------



## Ilya

Ok, I went to www.antennaweb.org (is that what everyone is using?), entered my (Solon, OH) address and got the following list of digital channels (I am skipping analog channels and azimuth numbers specific to my address):


Now Live:


* yellow WDLI-DT 39 TBN Canton OH

* red WKYC-DT 2 NBC Cleveland OH

* red WOIO-DT 10 CBS Shaker Heights OH

* red WEWS-DT 15 ABC Cleveland OH

* red WUAB-DT 28 UPN Lorain OH Now Live

* red WJW-DT 31 FOX Cleveland OH Now Live

* blue WFMJ-DT 20 NBC Youngstown OH Now Live

* blue WNEO-DT 46 PBS Alliance OH Now Live


Coming soon:


* yellow WEAO-DT 50 PBS Akron OH May 1 2004

* yellow WVPX-DT 59 PAX Akron OH Awaiting FCC Permit

* green WOAC-DT 47 SAH Canton OH Feb 1 2004

* red WVIZ-DT 26 PBS Cleveland OH May 9 2004

* red WBNX-DT 30 WB Akron OH Awaiting FCC Permit

* red WQHS-DT 34 UNI Cleveland OH Jan 1 2004

* blue WKBN-DT 41 CBS Youngstown OH Awaiting FCC Permit


Is anyone getting all 8 channels listed above?

I am a bit confused about channel numbers. Is 28 the same thing as 43-1 ?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Those are right. The coming soon dates are bullcrap though. No station has a set date when they will go live.


In westlake, I get,


2-1, 2-2, 2-3 (3)

10-1 (19)

15-1 (5)

28-1 (43)

31-1 (8)

39-1, 39-2, 39-3, 39-4 (17)


The reason the numbers are different is because HD telivision is transmitted over a different frequency than the analog station. It is then mapped to the regular station name on your OTA receiver. Hence the 2-1 showing up as 3-1.


----------



## Steve101

Hi Guys,


Just brought my Adelphia box home today to hook up with my LT150 front projector.

First impression is that the HD channels look good, but I am having trouble getting the aspect ratio right.

I was hoping to have my screen masked off for widescreen and that the standard definition would be centered in the middle.

So far the picture runs off the top and bottom by a lot if I go to a non HD channel.

Any ideas.


Steve in North Royalton


----------



## prankmafia

Has anyone in the Cleveland Area been able to get DTV channels from Toledo or Toronto or any other cities with a large antenna? cause i have been considering buying a large antenna to get channels from other cities


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Prankmafia, on good days I can get channel 11 CBS out of Toledo on the back end of my antenna. I have been thinking of throwing up a 12 footer on the roof with a router to see what else I can pull in, but there is snow on the roof so thats gonna have to wait.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Gentlemen,


In approximately 1 hour. The Cleveland Browns will take the field in the first Monday Night Football for the city of Cleveland in 8 years. As most of you know, Monday Night Football has been broadcast in High Definition throughout the season and ABC has done a quality job of covering the football games.


However, this is Cleveland HDTV. So the question is, what will the problem be for tonights big event in Cleveland? Do you think it will be audio or video dropouts? Do you think Channel 5 will forget to throw the HD switch? Maybe the transmitter could go down? Could ABC experience the same audio problems that have plagued CBS lately? Or could it be something else? Lets here your thoughts.


----------



## ParsonsBri

I can tell you right now. It will be a crappy signal strength from WEWS. I am already suffering dropouts out here in Avon due to poor signal. I hope this gets fixed. There is no excuse for a poor signal 25 miles from the towers. When are they going to improve the signal strength!!


----------



## jtscherne

You can do some things using the SETTINGS button. Scroll through and you'll find a screen option there.


The best thing to do is to get the full manual for the box at Scientific Atlanta's website:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/index.htm 


There are some setup things that can be done to box.


There's a lot of discussion over at Home Theater Spot:

http://www.***************.com/htsth...b=5&o=&fpart=1 


Hope this helps.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Steve101_
> *Hi Guys,
> 
> 
> Just brought my Adelphia box home today to hook up with my LT150 front projector.
> 
> First impression is that the HD channels look good, but I am having trouble getting the aspect ratio right.
> 
> I was hoping to have my screen masked off for widescreen and that the standard definition would be centered in the middle.
> 
> So far the picture runs off the top and bottom by a lot if I go to a non HD channel.
> 
> Any ideas.
> 
> 
> Steve in North Royalton*


----------



## MovingTarget

The game looked pretty great out in Brunswick OTA. Only a few very minor audio drops. I only watched until halftime because I got tired and fed up with the Brown's performance.


----------



## SteveC

I wonder why the ABC affiliate in Youngstown, channel 36 is not listed on the Antennaweb listing? I've been watching them instead of channel 15(WEWS) because WEWS now stretches/distorts their picture. I guess they believe the average Joe Sixpack prefers to have his screen filled. I'm glad there is an alternative. I've been able to get everything in Youngstown and Cleveland without a problem. I have a roof antenna with a rotor and I'm just Southeast of Akron.


Steve


----------



## Steve101

I had my new Adelphia STB working in time for the game.

It looked fantastic.

After finally getting true HD program playing, and setting my screen size, all of the other SD channels fit in the screen the way they were supposed to.

Still not sure what I had wrong in the beginning but it looked great at 92" wide.


Now they just need to get more channels.


Steve


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

The game looked great last night. I have no complaints. I had Zero audio or video dropouts. It was very nice.


Looks like the only dropouts during the night were by Kelly Holcomb. OH!


In all seriousness, the 2nd half of that game was pretty sweet, even if the Browns did lose.


----------



## KenNEO

Making my usual rounds of the channels last night I saw Enterprise (that Star Trek show) on in HDTV! Is this a first for WUAB 43.1? It was not a real clear HD show, but looked good. The Jake 2.0 show after it was HDTV too.


Good job Channel 43.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *I wonder why the ABC affiliate in Youngstown, channel 36 is not listed on the Antennaweb listing? I've been watching them instead of channel 15(WEWS) because WEWS now stretches/distorts their picture. I guess they believe the average Joe Sixpack prefers to have his screen filled. I'm glad there is an alternative. I've been able to get everything in Youngstown and Cleveland without a problem. I have a roof antenna with a rotor and I'm just Southeast of Akron.
> 
> 
> Steve*



I watch Youngstown more now too. Why is WEWS doing such a stupid thing with the stretching? Why would anyone want all their people to look fat? I can?t stand to watch them anymore. They were a good Digital station before this.


----------



## SteveC

Ken,

Was Enterprise and Jake 2.0 actually in HD(16:9, etc) or was it just the 4:3 upconvert of the analog feed? If they are finally able to relay the HD feed it is great news. I did not watch Enterprise last night because it was a repeat. I would have certainly watched it again if I knew it was in HD. I'll check it next week for sure. Thanks for the update.


Steve


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Ken,
> 
> Was Enterprise and Jake 2.0 actually in HD(16:9, etc)
> 
> Steve*



Yes, 16:9 and HD. Not the Best HD I have seen by far, but that is the people making Enterprise's fault, not WUAB.


I'm going to send them a thank you and start begging for everything else they have to be in HD.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Ohio Residents...Anyone interested in getting Chuck Williams for an Ohio ISF tour?

The topic says it all, I was contacted by a fellow Cleveland area resident, and we are both interested in getting Mr. Williams out to calibrate our displays. He is one of the best in the business, and trust me when I say you will not regret having Chuck out, he will sqeeze every bit of potential out of your display(from personal expierence, he made my jaw drop after he tweaked the hell out of my Mitsubishi 2 years ago).


If you are interested, please post here or email me.


Thanks,

Fred


----------



## panjj

I am in Cleveland Heights--Sony GWIII. Add me to the list.


----------



## Cactus Matt

I'm interested out here in Medina, Toshiba 65H80.


How much would it cost? Or does it depend on how many people you get?


----------



## rlockshin

Could be interested. Loewe 38 inch. Just had it done 3 months ago. How great is this guy.

Akron


----------



## Bizily

I was hoping some of you Comcast HDTV subscribers could help me determine if the time is right. I have been receiving HDTV OTA for over a year now here in Willoughby. I am a Comcast subscriber to analog cable and their high speed internet service. I also subscribe to TiVo and have a Sony standalone PVR.


1. What is the cost to subscribe to Comcast HD? Do you have to upgrade to their digital service? Do you pay to rent the tuner?


2. Are all 7 channels now active?


3. Can I incorporate my TiVo box into this system? I assume that the TiVo box would simply act as a smart channel changer for the HD STB. Do you know if Comcast will have an integrated HDTV/PVR STB any time soon?


4. I've been hearing about dropouts even over cable. Is this true? If so, what the hell? I figured I'd be done with dropouts if I went to cable.


----------



## Rob Ables

Originally posted by Bizily:



"1. What is the cost to subscribe to Comcast HD? Do you have to upgrade to their digital service? Do you pay to rent the tuner?"


--Yes, you need to have the digital service from what I know. You don't need to pay EXTRA over the normal digital box. The normal digital boxes are 5.99 a month each. So if you have 3 Digital boxes, you could replace all 3 with HDTV boxes for no additional cost (assuming you have 3 HD displays to use them on







) . You get all 7 channels (assuming you already subscribe to HBO and SHO) for no additional cost.


"2. Are all 7 channels now active?"


--Yes, all 7 channels are up and running.


"3. Can I incorporate my TiVo box into this system? I assume that the TiVo box would simply act as a smart channel changer for the HD STB. Do you know if Comcast will have an integrated HDTV/PVR STB any time soon?"


--I can not comment on this question, as I do not yet use TiVo. I have heard that Comcast will be offering a PVR option in early 2004, but I have not seen anything concrete.


"4. I've been hearing about dropouts even over cable. Is this true? If so, what the hell? I figured I'd be done with dropouts if I went to cable."


--I have watched about 15-20 hours of HDTV over Comcast since Dec 1st, and have ONLY experienced dropouts on ESPNHD. I get an audio and video dropout every couple of minutes almost everytime I watch a HD program on ESPN. The other channels have not had this problem. NOTE: I have not watched much ESPN since the other channels came online, so I do not know if it is still happening. It may have only been while they were still testing the area with ESPN only.


Hope this helps, and good luck.


Rob


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *Ohio Residents...Anyone interested in getting Chuck Williams for an Ohio ISF tour?
> 
> (snip)
> 
> If you are interested, please post here or email me.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Fred*



Fred,

Great Idea! My philips is desperate for help! I wonder how much it will cost? I am in as long as the cost is not crazy.


BP


----------



## Shark73

I think Chuck usually charges in the $500-800 range. All depending what you get done. I had Craig Miller ISF my Mits in June. It was the best money I've ever spent.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bizily_
> 
> ... 4. I've been hearing about dropouts even over cable. Is this true? [/b]



The dropouts don't bother me as much as the tearing (rhymes with caring) of the images. This happens when the scene changes a lot, such as when going to and from a commercial.


This is an effect I don't see OTA nor with satellite.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

 http://www.lionav.com/services.html 


Here is a good list of the prices for his services and other info.


The last time he was out, I was amazed at the level of improvement that an ISF calibration yielded(There is a HUGE difference between a local place doing an ISF and Chuck doing an ISF calibration...He is the Babe Ruth of tweaking!).


Here are some comments from some other Ohio residents that were on the tour less than 2 years ago:

http://ohioisftour.freewebspace.com/index.html 


THis comes along once every year or two, so dont let this pass...You will be amazed at the job this guy does.


Fred


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *Ohio Residents...Anyone interested in getting Chuck Williams for an Ohio ISF tour?...
> *



I own a plasma set. I've heard about calibrating a projection set, but what do you think about calibrating a plasma? Do you really think it's worth the money? Can anyone personally attest to the benefit of calibrating a plasma TV?


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

I have not seen a calibrated plasma, but from what I have read its incredible. These are questions that I will bring up with Chuck, and will report back to you.


Fred


----------



## Fred DeGrandis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *Could be interested. Loewe 38 inch. Just had it done 3 months ago. How great is this guy.
> 
> Akron*



IMHO, he is the best!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Who here thought we would hit 20 pages this quick in this thread???


----------



## Dweezilz

Hi Fred D. I would be interested in an ISF for sure!!! Let me know what comes of this as depending on price, I'd want Mr. Williams to look at my Sony TV. thanks!!


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz

On another notes, I added Adelphia HDTV to my system as it saves me $15 for HBO-HD I was paying to Dish Network. The SA box is bare bones but gets the job done. ABC & NBC actually look a bit different than the OTA versions I get through my Dish receiver, but they do look very good (they seem a bit more saturated than OTA) and now I won't have to worry about drop-outs on NBC. Now they need to add CBS to avoid the multi-path problems I have with it. The DVI port however is not functional at this point which is slightly disappointing, but my new Dish 811 will use that anyway so it won't matter.


All in all, 4 channels for about $3 more per month for the box is well worth it considering it saves me the $15 from dish! I'm plus $12 now!!










-Todd


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *I will be angry for quite awhile and I only wish I had a viable alternative so I could cancel Adelphia.*



Depending where you are in Cleveland metro area, you do have an alternative now - I just had Wide Open West out yesterday to install the SA 3250HD box (box has Firewire, DVI and USB - not sure if active yet) and they are currently offering ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX, and HBOHD. They say ESPN is coming "in 30 days or so" - the cable guy said they were working out incompatible signal issues or somesuch from the ESPN network feed. He said the HD boxes were flying off the shelves and he had to scramble to get mine for my appointment (which they scheduled 2-6pm and he showed about 3pm).


Check out www.wowway.com - IMHO their digital cable + internet bundles are hard to beat, and the 3 or 4 years I've had them, they are very responsive at not at all the typical "screw the customer" *cough* Adelphia *cough* cable company. Their reviews on dslreports rate them highly, and I plan to switch to them for internet once my one year deal with SBC DSL runs out.


Just curious - I have a friend with Adelphia who wants HD - can you just run over to the Severance office and say "gimme an HD box" or do you need to pre-arrange it? Do they still have the Soviet-style-bread-line customer service there?


-- Paul


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately, my apartment building is only wired for Adelphia at this point, although the WOW representive I talked to once said to check and see whether the apartment owners have an exclusive arrangement with Adelphia; otherwise, they could also install.


I did finally get someone to respond to my issues and so I'm reasonably satisfied, at least for now. One of the things the person told me though (and it's been mentioned here) is that you have to have a technician bring the box out now; they're not allowing pickups at the offices. I guess I was one of the last ones. He also indicated that they were totally overwhelmed by people, which is one of the reasons they ran out of boxes in the first place.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *
> 
> Just curious - I have a friend with Adelphia who wants HD - can you just run over to the Severance office and say "gimme an HD box" or do you need to pre-arrange it? Do they still have the Soviet-style-bread-line customer service there?
> 
> 
> -- Paul*


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *
> 
> Just curious - I have a friend with Adelphia who wants HD - can you just run over to the Severance office and say "gimme an HD box" or do you need to pre-arrange it? Do they still have the Soviet-style-bread-line customer service there?
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



There might be a huge demand for the box so I'd call ahead, but in Twinsburg, I didn't make any appointment or have them order an hd-box for me. I literally walked in the door with my digital cable box, said I wanted the HD box, & within a minute or two, I was walking out the door with it.


-Todd


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Depending where you are in Cleveland metro area, you do have an alternative now - I just had Wide Open West out yesterday to install the SA 3250HD box (box has Firewire, DVI and USB - not sure if active yet) and they are currently offering ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX, and HBOHD. They say ESPN is coming "in 30 days or so" - the cable guy said they were working out incompatible signal issues or somesuch from the ESPN network feed. He said the HD boxes were flying off the shelves and he had to scramble to get mine for my appointment (which they scheduled 2-6pm and he showed about 3pm).
> 
> 
> Check out www.wowway.com - IMHO their digital cable + internet bundles are hard to beat, and the 3 or 4 years I've had them, they are very responsive at not at all the typical "screw the customer" *cough* Adelphia *cough* cable company. Their reviews on dslreports rate them highly, and I plan to switch to them for internet once my one year deal with SBC DSL runs out.
> 
> 
> Just curious - I have a friend with Adelphia who wants HD - can you just run over to the Severance office and say "gimme an HD box" or do you need to pre-arrange it? Do they still have the Soviet-style-bread-line customer service there?
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



Paul,


Can you please provide a review of how the HD PQ is with WOW? I will consider the switch to WOW for the Internet and HD channels if the PQ is good.


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## Steve B

Fred,


I missed Chuck last time due to being out of town. Keep me posted on a new trip.


Steve


----------



## intermod

WOIO-DT ???


Yesterday before the game I noticed I could not get WOIO-DT. I figured they just didn't want to run the digital TX for all the info-mercials they have been running this month, Anyway I found the game on 10-1 and it was fine

but I just tried to bring up 19-1 tonight and my set re-maps to 19. Still have to enter 10-1 to get WOIO-DT and to top it off there still running an infomercial!! Whats up with that?


Dan


----------



## Joe Cogan

I picked up my STB from Adelphia's Macedonia store (SA 3250HD) yesterday. They told me that NBC, ABC, PBS, HBO, and SHO are available now. I connected the STB to my Hitachi 60V500 and set the resolution at 1080i. I'm using the "stretch" mode in the 3250 even though my Hitachi has a better algorithm because I just don't want to be constantly going through the menus.


I eagerly waited for prime time last night to watch my first HD programs: "Vegas" on NBC at 9:00 and of course... Monday Night Football. Well, suffice it to say that I was not very impressed. In fact, I don't think that I could tell the difference between the channels broadcasting SD and the HD ones (NBC, ABC).


I've read on this forum that the 3250 upconverts SD signals to 1080i but I expected the Monday Night game to be really 'wow'. Sort of the feeling I got when I first got the TV and played "Monster's Inc." in 480p. That was definitely WOW....


Has anyone had similar "less than stellar" performance using Adelphia's HD box? I saw a college football game (demonstration) at Audio Craft in Akron that made me drool. That was about a year and a half ago so I kind of expected MNF to be at least as crisp. (Especially since I have the LCD 60V500! Man, what a set!!)


Is there something I'm not doing right in the setup? Adelphia 'customer support' told me that I did everything right. I wonder if they have to 'switch me over' to HD or something.


It was a real let down last night after talking it up to my wife all day. She didn't even comment on the PQ. Strange....


-Joe


----------



## Cactus Matt

Did anyone notice and break ups on Monday night football last night AGAIN on WEWS 5-1? Please tell me I'm not the only one!


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Cactus Matt_
> *Did anyone notice and break ups on Monday night football last night AGAIN on WEWS 5-1? Please tell me I'm not the only one!*



Maybe one or two small breaks, but nothing really bad.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, I've seen HD MNF both OTA and through Adelphia. The OTA signal was spectacular and as far as I can tell, it looks just as great through the cable. Last night's game was just as good, so I don't have a good answer for you. I can definitely tell the difference between SD and HD.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Joe Cogan_
> *
> 
> Has anyone had similar "less than stellar" performance using Adelphia's HD box? I saw a college football game (demonstration) at Audio Craft in Akron that made me drool. That was about a year and a half ago so I kind of expected MNF to be at least as crisp. (Especially since I have the LCD 60V500! Man, what a set!!)
> 
> 
> Is there something I'm not doing right in the setup? Adelphia 'customer support' told me that I did everything right. I wonder if they have to 'switch me over' to HD or something.
> 
> 
> -Joe*


----------



## Joe Cogan




> Quote:
> Well, I've seen HD MNF both OTA and through Adelphia. The OTA signal was spectacular and as far as I can tell, it looks just as great through the cable. Last night's game was just as good, so I don't have a good answer for you. I can definitely tell the difference between SD and HD.



jtscherne,


Thanks for the response. Yeah, I thought something was fishy. I can ALWAYS tell the difference between a DVD and Digital Cable SD so I figured that the HD signal was going to really stand out.


I wonder if there's a setting I'm missing or something. I know that Adelphia's service is a little chopped up so maybe we just weren't receiving it? I'm on the "Western Reserve" Adelphia that services Hudson, Twinsburg, Macedonia, Northfield Center, Sagamore Hills, etc...


When you switch to a station broadcasting HD on Adelphia, it's obvious, right?


- Joe

------------------------


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *Ohio Residents...Anyone interested in getting Chuck Williams for an Ohio ISF tour?*



Might be interested. Please keep me posted.

50"GWIII


----------



## BlaZeR2

Joe,


You did tune your cable box to the actual HD feed channel right?


Adelphia's HD channels are in the 700's


703, 705, etc. those are that channels that carry the HD feed of the networks. I just want to make sure you weren't watching the normal ABC & NBC stations, expecting it to be in HD.


I picked up the HD box last week from Adelphia (Lorain, OH), and there was definately a Huge difference last night between the SD broadcast of MNF, and the HD broadcast. The easiest way to notice (other then the quality) is the fact that the HD won't need to be squeezed or stretched, since it will be recieved in 16:9 format.


BlaZeR2


----------



## Joe Cogan




> Quote:
> You did tune your cable box to the actual HD feed channel right?
> 
> 
> Adelphia's HD channels are in the 700's



Blaze,


They are?!?!?! Darn those customer service reps!!! They told me that NBC and ABC would just magically 'switch' if there was an HD feed. Grrrrr







I've talked to 4 different people and none of them mentioned it.


Since you're in Lorain, I'm wondering if I have the 'same' Adelphia as you. I say this because my Adelphia programming is different than the east side Adelphia (formally Cablevision). We don't have VOD in the Western Reserve network but they do. Anyone using Adelphia's HD in my area? (Macedonia, Twinsburg, Hudson, Boston Hts., Northfield Center, Northfield Village, Sagamore Hills, etc......) Do you use the 700 channels for the HD feed???


Well, I'll have to try this tonight. Hopefully I'll get them.


Lastly: Do the HD channels in the 700's come in all day or do I have to wait for prime time tonight? How about HBO and SHO? If I have to wait, I'll try "8 Simple Rules" on ABC at 8:00 PM (720p) and "The Tracey Morgan Show" on NBC at 8:00 PM (1080i)


Thanks a lot,

- Joe


----------



## Shark73

I'm in Strongsville and the HD channels are on 703 (NBC), 705 (ABC). As far as I know all the Adelphia networks in Cleveland have the HD channels in the 700 range. The HD channels are on 24/7, however, they are not HD 24/7. You can check out the local news on 703 tonight. They broadcast the news in HD every day.


----------



## jtscherne

HD stations run 24 hours a day, with a mixture of standard and high definition programming. I think the local stations look better, even for standard broadcasts. A large portion of HBO's movies are in HD, as are many of the Showtime movies. If you go to HBO's website ( www.hbo.com ), the HD listings indicate if the movie is in true HD.


If you use the onscreen program guide, you'll see the HD stations down in the 700's. As you stated, there's only four stations for now, but I'm assuming that will increase over the coming months.


----------



## Joe Cogan

Well, I've got 'em. My 9 year old just confirmed this over the phone. My wife thinks I'm crazy....


...I am.


Thanks for all of your help guys. I really appreciate it.


One last thing... If an HD program is natively broadcasting a show in 720p (ie: NBC with "8 Simple Rules") should I switch my 3250HD to 720p in the setup? I am currently set at 1080i but my TV can receive either. Hopefully I could just keep it at 1080i and do the "RONCO" thing.... "Set it and forget it!!!"


-Joe


----------



## jtscherne

Don't worry about the questions. It's only the beginning as more and more people start to switch over. I suspect that it's issues like this that made Adelphia switch from allowing people in the Cleveland area to pick up boxes directly.


----------



## BlaZeR2

No problem, glad I could help.


about the 720p shows,


it is up to you. The box can easily convert it to 1080i, but some people actually like 720p better. The best thing for you to do is to start the show in 720p, and then switch it back and forth using the settings menu (settings, down 2x, the left or right for your desired resolution, then select)


Choose which ever setting you think looks the best.


BlaZeR2


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Paul,
> 
> 
> Can you please provide a review of how the HD PQ is with WOW? I will consider the switch to WOW for the Internet and HD channels if the PQ is good.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jim*



Jim,

After having WOW HD service for a whole two days, I can say that the PQ is equivalent to OTA HD. I can flip my plasma input over to the Samsung SIR-T165 OTA receiver right next to it for comparison and there is no degradation viewing the HD channels over WOW cable.


I looked at ABC MNF, Leno on NBC, CSI on CBS and they all looked excellent. Whatever was on Fox in "Faux HD" looked good too...



-- Paul


----------



## rlb

Channel 19-1 audio. For the last couple weeks I've experienced significant problems with CBS digital audio. It is fine for 30 minutes or so, then breaks up. If I shift to the analog station for a while and then shift back to digital it is probably okay; but, then starts breaking up again after a period.


Is this a common problem for others or am I experiencing some king of hardware problem?


Thanks.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlb_
> *Channel 19-1 audio. For the last couple weeks I've experienced significant problems with CBS digital audio. It is fine for 30 minutes or so, then breaks up. If I shift to the analog station for a while and then shift back to digital it is probably okay; but, then starts breaking up again after a period.
> 
> 
> Is this a common problem for others or am I experiencing some king of hardware problem?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Yes, it is very common for 19-1. Not much we can do but call the station and complain. Your hardware is fine.


Jim


----------



## SteveC

WOIO seemed to be having a hard time last night. I was watching NCIS and they switched to the analog signal for a while. My signal strength was going up and down like a yo-yo. I hope the CBS affiliate in Youngstown can get their digital channel on the air soon. It will be good to have an alternative when WOIO is having their all too frequent "problems". Maybe they also will be more open minded about things like multicasting the NCAA basketball tournament games. The engineer at WOIO says they don't have the equipment to do it and have no plans to acquire it. Very sad.


On a different note. Did anyone catch the Victoria Secret thing last night on UPN channel 28. I couldn't believe it when I switched over to it and saw that it was in HD. Those models looked pretty good. UPN's website lists no information about which programs are in HD. I subscribe to the daily HDTV Magazine email listing of HD programming and they don't list anything for UPN either. I sent Dale Cripps an email asking about this and here is his reply:


Steve, the head of UPN's HDTV effort is the same one who heads it for CBS and he has not seen fit to inform us as yet of all of their HDTV offerings and their web site provides few clues. I am told there is a reluctance to promote UPN HDTV nationally because they have so few UPN outlets. So, to say it is nationally distributed, while technically an accurate statement, it is not something being spoken of outside of local markets. The consequences of promoting something nationally which has in reality only a few markets working is all of the telephone calls, faxes, and emails you have to be field from the missing markets telling them why they didn't get such and such a program. As these stations come on line or increase their power I suspect that our CBS colleague will be happy to keep us posted and up-to-date. Until then any discovery you make I hope you will share it with me. I do have a UPN logo already for the magazine.


Dale


Dr. No was in HD last Friday and I suspect the Bond movie this Friday may be also. UPN seems to be making a reasonable effort to provide us with some HD. Its a shame they don't want to let anyone know about it. I asked Dale in my reply for an email address of someone at UPN to complain to but he did not reply. There is no contact info on their website. I guess we will just have to keep checking on our own to see if something is in HD.


Steve


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

HDTV Galaxy has been pretty correct so far about the HD offerings of UPN. They did not however list the victoria secret show which was on last night. I flipped it on, saw it was HD, then realized this isnt worth watching and shut it off. But its cool to see the HD on UPN. This friday nights bond movie is Goldfinger btw.


Cleveland HD, now with 5 HD channels!!!


----------



## SteveC

Mike,

Thanks for the HDTV Galaxy recommendation. I was not aware of it. I'll pass it on to some of my HD capable friends. There is a lot of info there.

Steve


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Chuck Williams is willing to come....If enough interest is generated, we can get him from January 13-18.


Let me know if you guys are interested....


The spots for the last tour filled up in less than a week, so hurry!


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

I have PM'd all of the people that showed interest.


Thanks,

Fred


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

To all that are interested, we need to know how many people we have in the next couple of days. This is going to be a mini tour, and there are already 2 people for sure. We can pull the tour off with another 1-2 people, but the more the better.


Chuck told me that the 13th-18th is open. If there are onle 4 people that are interested, then he will only be here for 2 days. If there are 12 people interested, then he will be here for the whole time.


If you want to have your spot locked in, to ensure that you are included in the tour, please PM or email me with your name, phone and address, and state that you are definetly in.


If you have read anything about Chuck, you already know what he is capable of.


Fred


----------



## KurlonT

Anyone know if Time Warner plans to pick up CBS, WB, ESPN or PBS

HD channels anytime soon?


I would figure since the surrounding competition already has

those or will have them soon TW would push for the same lineup.


BTW anyone catch Zeppelins "song remains the same" on INHD?

Before my time but still great to see and hear them perform.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Update:


4 people joined the tour this morning, so there are a total of 5 for sure members thus far(all in the greater Cleveland area). I would like to first thank all of the members of the January 2004 Chuck Williams Ohio ISF tour for your great response. For people who are still on the fence, feel free to contact me, and we can talk about what you can expect in a calibration, and the improvements that many have seen post calibration.


We have hit the magic number, Chuck Williams IS coming. We have 5 for sure people, and the spots are filling up quickly. Chuck is coming, but it would be great if even more people signed on. We can have him for up to 1 week(January 13-18), but as it is right now, Chuck will only be here for 2-3 days(unless more people are interested). If more of you are interested, then he will stay for the entire week, but we need to know in the next 2 days(we need to make flight plans(from Washngton DC) ASAP).


Fred


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

I would have C. Williams do my 65411, but I already have an appointment with Craig Miller in May. If it was anything other than a Mits, I'd jump in...but Craig is the absolute BEST when it comes to getting the best out of a Mitsubishi. He calibrated my buddies 73411 in June and I almost fell over he did such a nice job


----------



## Fred DeGrandis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *Fred,
> 
> Great Idea! My philips is desperate for help! I wonder how much it will cost? I am in as long as the cost is not crazy.
> 
> 
> BP*



I sent you a PM.


Thanks again everyone,

Fred


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K_
> *I would have C. Williams do my 65411, but I already have an appointment with Craig Miller in May. If it was anything other than a Mits, I'd jump in...but Craig is the absolute BEST when it comes to getting the best out of a Mitsubishi. He calibrated my buddies 73411 in June and I almost fell over he did such a nice job*



I couldn't agree more. I had Craig calibrate my Mits 55411 in June too. The difference was night and day. Nothing against Chuck...I've only heard great things about his work. However, If anyone in the area is considering a calibration of a Mits and doesn't want to jump in on Chuck's tour due to the holiday's or such....consider having Craig stop by if in fact he will be in NE Ohio in May.


Jim


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

6 are now currently rnrolled.


If you are considering this, please let me know ASAP, because the deadline is tomorrow!


Thanks,

Fred


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Fred how much coin are we looking at dropping here for this guy? I'm sure its worth it, but that pesky tuition bill just came the other day and apparently college is more important than TV.


----------



## handsworth

I live in Shaker Hts , Ohio also. Adelphia only has ABC, NBC, HBO and SHO. What channels does WOW offer now in HD? Fortunately I live in a city that where I can have either.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *I live in Shaker Hts , Ohio also. Adelphia only has ABC, NBC, HBO and SHO. What channels does WOW offer now in HD? Fortunately I live in a city that where I can have either.*



You might want to go back a few pages and read the posts from Paul regarding WOW HD cable. Here is one of his posts.


"Depending where you are in Cleveland metro area, you do have an alternative now - I just had Wide Open West out yesterday to install the SA 3250HD box (box has Firewire, DVI and USB - not sure if active yet) and they are currently offering ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX, and HBOHD. They say ESPN is coming "in 30 days or so" - the cable guy said they were working out incompatible signal issues or somesuch from the ESPN network feed. He said the HD boxes were flying off the shelves and he had to scramble to get mine for my appointment (which they scheduled 2-6pm and he showed about 3pm).


Check out www.wowway.com - IMHO their digital cable + internet bundles are hard to beat, and the 3 or 4 years I've had them, they are very responsive at not at all the typical "screw the customer" *cough* Adelphia *cough* cable company. Their reviews on dslreports rate them highly, and I plan to switch to them for internet once my one year deal with SBC DSL runs out.


Just curious - I have a friend with Adelphia who wants HD - can you just run over to the Severance office and say "gimme an HD box" or do you need to pre-arrange it? Do they still have the Soviet-style-bread-line customer service there?


-- Paul"


----------



## roblake

Having stopped by the Severance Adelphia office yesterday, they have no boxes. You have to schedule an appointment with the installer, "Sometime between 8AM and 5PM". They had no one in the bread line at Severance.


I'm scheduled for Monday.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Fred how much coin are we looking at dropping here for this guy? I'm sure its worth it, but that pesky tuition bill just came the other day and apparently college is more important than TV.*



If you are using a RPTV, my guestimate is around 500 (give or take). You will not regret having him do your display, the last time he was here, my jaw nearly hit the floor when he was done!


If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. I hear ya on the tuition bill


----------



## rlb

Regarding WOW. I asked them via e-mail what new channels they would be adding and if they were planning to have a PVR (e.g., SA 8100HD) available in the near future.


Only thing they told me was to expect ESPN and Showtime within the next 30 days.


Their prices are very reasonable. Their premium package with all movie channels, HD, and their fastest cable modum (faster than Adelphia's) for around $107/month. It's $10-$20/month cheaper with their slower modums. If I add my D* service (only HD, Showtime, and HBO) plus my Adelphia cable modum, I paying around $130/month. If they have an HD PVR available soon, I won't have to buy an $800-$1000 HD Tivo.


Only current downside I see with WOW is the limited HD offerings. I'll watch their offerings for the next 3-6 months. If they add HD channels, add a PVR, and local users say their "PQ" is good; adios to D*.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Yeah Ill have to pass on the calibration Fred. If it were over the summer I would be game.


I knew slackin off at River High and not getting a college scholarship would bite me someday. Apparently it bit my television.


Good luck to you guys with your TV tune ups


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

I went to River High too


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Update:

As of 4:40 today, we have 9 people enrolled in the tour(7 from the Cleveland area, and the other 2 from Cinci). The cutoff date to join the tour will be tomorrow, so if you are considering joining, please do so soon.

If you have any question, please let me know ASAP.


Here is a list of the members thus far, if you want in but don't see your name listed, PM me NOW!:


Cleveland members:

Brian Barthelman

Fred DeGrandis

Nick Satullo

Ted Brady

Jim Bizily

Panjj(please PM me with your full mane)

Ronald Arotin


Cinci Members:

hugenbdd( I need your info to reserve you a spot)

Mike Hugenberg


The Cinci leg of the tour will be later on during the week. Mr. Hugenberg from Cinci has offered to use his Frequent Flyer miles to take care of the airfare for the tour. I would like to thank you again Blue Martini, and I encourage the rest of you to send him a note thanking him for saving all of us $$$ and making it easier for some of us to have Chuck out. As long as everything works out, the travel expenses will be less than we originally planned.


As I said earlier, we are going to try and wrap this up tomorrow(Sunday), so please let me know ASAP. The free airfare may help some of you get off of the fence.


The schedule will be made up by Mr. Satullo and I after we have cut off the open enrollment. Chuck will start off in Cleveland where he will work his magic on at least 7 displays. He will start on the 13th of January, and stay in Cleveland until the 16th of January. He would then fly to Cinci and finish up the tour there. It will take 1-2 days in Cinci because of the service work and CRT setup that is required by the 2 Cinci members. This means that Chuck will fly into Cinci probably either late January 16th or early the 17th, and fly out on the 18th of January back to Washington DC.


I think that if one more member joined in the Cleveland area, we would be all set. This would mean 8 people in the greater Cleveland area(2 displays per day) for a total of 4 days(13-16th). He would then fly out on the 17th and finish on the 18th.


I may be able to work an extra Cleveland person in, but first come first serve. Also, I will be making a waiting list just in case of an emergency(your display blows up..etc.). Please let me know if you would like on this(if you missed your chance on this tour)(we actually used 1 person on the waiting list for the last tour). I don't think we will be able to include Columbus in our tour this time(due to the lack of interest shown). It amazes me how fast these tours book up, last time it was 1 week, this time, it is been around 3-4 days!


If you have any questions, let me know,


Fred


----------



## paule123

So I'm over at a friends house tonight hooking up his new Samsung "home theater in a box" HTSK-5 and he has Adelphia (Shaker Hts) with the Scientific Atlanta 3100 set top box. I notice that on all the analog channels, there is no audio out via digital coax, only audio on those channels via the standard stereo RCA jacks?? When I am on HBO, etc., then the digital audio kicks in.


The Samsung isn't able to sense the lack of digital audio and autoswitch down to stereo RCA, so he's got to switch audio inputs if he wants the full digital surround sound experience - kind of a pain in the ass...


Do you guys have the same problem with the Adelphia STB?


-- Paul


----------



## BlaZeR2

Yep,


That is the way the SA 3100 works. The digital coax out will only be active when viewing a show via digital cable, the analog channels will only carry the analog sound, and therefore will be sent through the digital audio out.


I was lucky, my Yamaha receiver will automatically switch down to the RCA's when there is no sound on the digital side.


----------



## wfwiles

Is anyone having problems with WKYC ch 3 digital. I did a resync on my HD100 a week ago and havn't been able to get 3.1-3.3 to sync. It shows 2.. but no signal level. All other stations work fine except for the intermittent sound echo on 19.1. I get 82-100 signal level on the other stations..........


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Joe Cogan_
> *Well, I've got 'em. My 9 year old just confirmed this over the phone. My wife thinks I'm crazy....
> 
> 
> ...I am.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all of your help guys. I really appreciate it.
> 
> 
> One last thing... If an HD program is natively broadcasting a show in 720p (ie: NBC with "8 Simple Rules") should I switch my 3250HD to 720p in the setup? I am currently set at 1080i but my TV can receive either. Hopefully I could just keep it at 1080i and do the "RONCO" thing.... "Set it and forget it!!!"
> 
> 
> -Joe*



Does your TV display 720p or downconvert it? (what TV do you have again?). My TV accepts it, but then downconverts it to 480p, so 1080i is my only choice. I'm glad you figured out the problem with your HD. I figured that it wasn't the HD content since you were able to format on your TV & with an HD signal you probably wouldn't be able to do so.


I'm not sure if anyone has posted this info, but just in case, here is how to get into the SETUP wizard on that Adelphia HD box. It will solve the problem with the Guide not displaying via SVIDEO for SD material as it will send 480i out of the componant output. The box is incapable of displaying the Guide via SVID or Composite, so this solves that issue while allowing your TV to format 480i properly (wide zoom, natural zoom, etc...)


Turn your cablebox OFF.

On the box, hold down "guide" and "info" until you see the box display say 1080i or 720p

The wizard will take you through turning on & off each resolution.

For most widescreen TV's, you'll only need 1080i widescreen & 480i Standard. (if your TV can DISPLAY 720p, you can add this for ABC, otherwise it'll just output it as 1080i which is fine too)

Exit the wizard and then turn the box on.


You will now have a new option in the setup menu of the box (where you have the favorites & other options). The new option will give you the selections you just made so you can pick 1080i or 480i to come out of the componant output!!! So for HD channels, switch it to 1080i and for SD switch to 480i so that your TV can then format to fill the screen. You could add 480p std. to the output, but in most cases, your TV will do a better job upconverting to 480p, 940i etc...


This will now allow you to view the GUIDE when watching SD 480i material!!! Plus, now you don't have to switch inputs on your TV to SVID or Composite to watch SD material.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *Is anyone having problems with WKYC ch 3 digital. I did a resync on my HD100 a week ago and havn't been able to get 3.1-3.3 to sync. It shows 2.. but no signal level. All other stations work fine except for the intermittent sound echo on 19.1. I get 82-100 signal level on the other stations..........*



Yes, with my Dish 811, I could not get the signal to lock in for NBC. Normal it's weaker, but fine, but today it was impossible to pull in. I'm glad I also have the Adelphia HD box as well to get NBC as it was fine on their service.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Anyone having audio problems with WOIO?


During the football game yesterday(Saturday), the audio was very messed up.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *Anyone having audio problems with WOIO?
> 
> 
> During the football game yesterday(Saturday), the audio was very messed up.*



YES! During the Sat. football game (around halftime), and also Sunday night when I tuned in to the end of the Christmas Shoes and had the same audio problem. The audio problem instantly fixed itself at 10:59pm when the format changed from HD to SD during the credits. I emailed WOIO Programming Dept/Engineering about this and mentioned the other complaints on this forum.


The audio problem was evident OTA and cable HD (WOW) so I think it's on WOIO's end.


-- Paul


----------



## Joe Cogan




> Quote:
> From Dweez:
> 
> 
> Does your TV display 720p or downconvert it? (what TV do you have again?). My TV accepts it, but then downconverts it to 480p, so 1080i is my only choice. I'm glad you figured out the problem with your HD. I figured that it wasn't the HD content since you were able to format on your TV & with an HD signal you probably wouldn't be able to do so.



I have the Hitachi 60v500 LCD RPTV. It runs 1920 x 1080 progressive natively and up-converts all signals coming in including: 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i.


I've set the SA 3250HD up to save the 1080i & 720p formats and have A/B'd the HD programs. I really haven't seen that much difference so I've been sticking with 1080i because of the ease of up-conversion with my TV (1080i to 1080p).


On Adelphia's HD offerings: Anyone hear if Adelphia is going to add to the HD line up? I'm becoming an HDTV junky... We still need: CBS, FOX, PBS, DiscHD, and ESPN-HD. *sigh*


PS: Dweez: Thanks for your help again. I sent you a private message.


-Joe


----------



## jtscherne

Fox isn't HD yet, and WVIZ hasn't set an official date to start local HD broadcasts. I hope we get CBS before the Super Bowl though.


----------



## ZManCartFan

What's up with CBS' broadcast schedule? There are times when I'll try to tune it in, and I'll get next to no signal. And there are other times when it will come in at about 90% here in Medina. I just can't seem to make rhyme nor reason out of it, as it's not just related to times when the material is or is not in HD. For example, I tried tuning it in tonight during some HD broadcast, and it was essentially off the air for me (some fluttering signal strength down in the 5% range-- could be just a reading off the WBNS signal in Columbus.)


Is Channel 19 broadcasting at set hours during the day, or is just whenever they feel like it? Or is there something wrong with my antenna on that particular frequency?


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

We need to organize a group call in to WOIO.


While we're on the subject of a call in, that 5.1 sound for all of the locals would be nice too......I think we should call all of them too.


Let me know what you guys think,

Fred


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

My dad was talking to a friend of his who knows the engineer at WOIO. He mentioned that the engineer is taking a lot of heat for all the audio screwups coming in during HD programming. He made it sound though that it was a network problem.


I dont know how likely a network problem is since no other cities are complaining about their local affiliates CBS audio.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Is Channel 19 broadcasting at set hours during the day, or is just whenever they feel like it?*



I almost never get CBS-HD anymore. It used to be late night failures, then primetime, then last afternoon... I have a high antenna in Mentor that gets CBS analog and the other HD stations in the same direction.


It's probably an issue of the power level at which they're broadcasting -- something like ten per cent of 'normal' power.


My emails to the WOIO have not been answered.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Does anyone know if the Adelphia local HDTV channels are scrambled? If I have a QAM receiver, will it receive them? Since they are in the 700 range, I assume that I won't be able to get them without using the Adelphia-supplied box. Anyone know for sure?


----------



## roblake

I was unable to get the Adelphia HD channels without an Adelphia HD box. Using a Sony XBR 950 with a QAM digital tuner. I could get some VOD and "other" fee-for-service channels in the 75 - 95 range, but after the very recent Adelphia reconfiguration, some of these no longer appear.


Your Mileage May Vary.


----------



## panjj

Any new info on additional HD channels (CBS, Discovery, ESPN, etc.)?

Also, will the DVR they plan to offer be the 8000HD?


Thanks for any info.


----------



## wfwiles

Well I solved the problem with WKYC. I swung the antenna 180 and the HD100 picked up the station. Don't ask me why. I had unplugged it over night and after scanning the DTV channels I lost the 2.. channel and picked up the 3.1-3 channels. Maybe too much gain on the antenna and picking uo reflections or other interference on the low channel. I don't have patch 1187 on the HD100 and don't have a means of getting it without buying a SAT antenna. Maybe be a mute point as I have COMCAST coming next Tuesday with the HD box and my TV only has one DTV input. Creates a problem as I want to add a progressive scan DVD player. Anyone know of a reasonable component video switch?


----------



## wfwiles

Also would like to know what box Comcast is noe using in the Cleveland area..


----------



## Dweezilz

PVR update. I have recently learned that Adelphia will offer a non-HD PVR in January & an HD PVR possibly later in the year 1st Quarter. Specs and models are have not been made clear at this time


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *Also would like to know what box Comcast is now using in the Cleveland area..*



For HD, the Motorola 5100.


----------



## wfwiles

Thanks I found the manuals for it on the Motorola sight. I need to rework my layout drawings before Tuesday...


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

I would like to thank everyone that showed interest in the Ohio ISF tour. It took less than one week, but we have filled every last spot that is available.


If you are in the Cleveland area and are interested, please let us know. We will form a waiting list, and if there is any extra time(a very good possibility) or a cancellation, then you will be in. Please email me to get on this list.


I have contacted all of the members of the tour(if you haven't heard from me, please contact me ASAP).


I will email you the schedule in the next few days, so please lookout for it.


Thanks again everyone,

Fred


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *I would like to thank everyone that showed interest in the Ohio ISF tour....*



Thank you, Fred, for your efforts in gettings this tour set up!


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *For HD, the Motorola 5100.*



Stan, isn't the 5100 a cable modem?


Oops. Never mind. I see now that Motorola uses 5100 in two different products. That's odd.


Cable Modem: SB5100

HD Cable Receiver: DCT5100


----------



## StanZ

The 5100 pales in comparison to the features of my DirecTV Hughes box.


But last night at about 10:15 our HBO movie disappeared because of loss of satellite signal, during a light rain/snow. Then the other satellite channels started to disappear, also.


So the 5100, which still delivered, took on a new shimmer of worthiness.


----------



## Bizily

Does anyone know if our local Comcast has any plans to rollout the Motorola 6208 (or 6408)?


----------



## wfwiles

I received a flier today from Comcast on the new channels. They only show WKYC-NBC and WJW-FOX as the only local HD stations available. Anyone in the Eastlake-Willoughby-Mentor area getting the others. I will have to find a component video switch to use my OTA box to.


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *...I will have to find a component video switch to use my OTA box to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Most of us use our home theater receivers to switch video. It makes it easier since it allows you to switch the video and audio together. But if you want a dedicated component video switch, try www.digitalconnection.com. They have an Audio Authority 4x1 component audio/video switcher on sale now.


----------



## roblake

Just had an Adelphia HD cable box installed. There is a DVI connector on the back. I called Adelphia Customer Service who refered me to a semi-technical person, who was totally clueless, knowing only how to connect the box via component cables.


I've got the box, Scientific Atlanta 3250HD, connected to the HDTV via a DVI-D cable, but the TV doesn't see anything on that input.


Has anyone had any luck with this set up?


----------



## wfwiles

Thanks Bizily. After posting yesterday I found the AA1154 at Digital Connection. I searched the forum and found several threads on it with some pro and some con posts. I ordered one. If I can overcome the auto switching problems it will be great as my wife is kinda remote challenged.  It looks like the biggest problem is auto switching wit most boxes keeping the output hot. My receiver is a JVC RX-8000 and does s-video switching. I don't want to go into a new receiver yet.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by roblake_
> *Just had an Adelphia HD cable box installed. There is a DVI connector on the back. I called Adelphia Customer Service who refered me to a semi-technical person, who was totally clueless, knowing only how to connect the box via component cables.
> 
> 
> I've got the box, Scientific Atlanta 3250HD, connected to the HDTV via a DVI-D cable, but the TV doesn't see anything on that input.
> 
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with this set up?*



No. The DVI connection is for future use...it's not active.


Switch to the componet cables and you will be good to go.


Jim


----------



## Shark73

For all of you Adelphia HD subs out there. I think we need to put some pressure on Adelphia Cleveland. I was at my parents house in Youngstown for Christmas and they already have Starz HD. The channel lineup in Y'town is HBO HD, SHO HD and Starz HD....as of now they do not have any of the local Youngstown channels in HD. I find it odd that they have Starz already and we do not.


Happy Holidays to all.


Jim


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *PVR update. I have recently learned that Adelphia will offer a non-HD PVR in January & an HD PVR possibly later in the year 1st Quarter. Specs and models are have not been made clear at this time*





Adelphia is using the SA 8000 for now and will upgrade to SA 8000HD


----------



## oachalon

i just ordered comcast digital cable and on the phone the lady said that in mentor, Ohio they dont offer hd which i know they do. What i was wondering though is when they bring the boxes out will i get the motorola dct5100 which will let me do hd automatically.


----------



## wfwiles

Will be interesting to see. They are to bring my HD box out tomorrow. I called them last week and they said it was available in Eastlake. I also got a flier the other day listing the new channels. They don't line up with the channels I am getting now. Trying to determine what I have from their web site and my bill is useless. After I get the HD box installed I will have to bug them on the channel lineup........


----------



## Steve B

Does anyone know if Cleveland will be able to get the Rose Parade in HD OTA? Rumor has is that CBS will offer it, but does anyone know for sure if we will get it?


----------



## fpo701

OK. I'm new to this forum. I've been reading it for several days. Here's my dilemma. I just bought a Mitsubishi 42" HDTV. I got it hooked into the rest of my system, using the TV to get video only. All the audio is routed to my Denon reveicer. I'm a TWC customer in Akron, using a SA 8000 DVR box. I love it. I have yet to hear them moving to any HD DVR. They are awaiting performance results from the 8000HD and a pioneer box. Locally, they only broadcast 3, 5, and 8 digital channels. Plus, Discovery, Showtime, and HBO. What do I do? Do I go with two boxes, wait for the HD DVR, or give up my DVR?


Thanks,

Frank


----------



## ParsonsBri

Just got the Adelphia box installed today. I am quite underwhelmed. I watched "Las Vegas on WKYC with consistent pixelization or video dropouts. OTA WKYC was actually pretty good for the last half hour of the program. WEWS was good. Any reason for the dropouts on cable?


I asked the installer about additional channels. No news on anything new anytime soon. They need to at least add the remaining locals, if not ESPN and StarZ.


This may be a very short test for me!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *Just got the Adelphia box installed today. I am quite underwhelmed. I watched "Las Vegas on WKYC with consistent pixelization or video dropouts. OTA WKYC was actually pretty good for the last half hour of the program. WEWS was good. Any reason for the dropouts on cable?
> 
> 
> I asked the installer about additional channels. No news on anything new anytime soon. They need to at least add the remaining locals, if not ESPN and StarZ.
> 
> 
> This may be a very short test for me!*



I pretty much agree. At this point it's at zero cost, so I'm not worried about it. But they're going to have to add a bit of coverage to make it worth the extra $5 a month that they plan to charge us. If not, I'll just stick with OTA. But with the rain last night, I was still getting a lot of dropouts on that.


A big part of the problem for me is that they are really not carrying ANYTHING that I want to watch at this point. I don't subscribe to SHO or HBO - they really don't have anything on that interests me. And for that matter, neither does NBC or ABC. And I'm not all that interested in sports, so ESPN won't matter much to me. Maybe they can add HDNet.


My kids like to watch a bunch of the WB shows, so I'll be glad when that comes on the air. And I only watch a handful of shows anymore - I like CSI and that comes in HD. And Enterprise will be HD here eventually. But at this point, Adelphia has neither of those.


I like to be an "early adopter", but it seems at this point that I've really jumped the gun. I probably should have waited another year.


I'd like to see them add some "free" HD content that I can't get over the air. When are networks like Spike, SciFi, USA, FX, Oxygen, TCM, Bravo, etc. going to go HD? For that matter, what about VH1, CMT, or MTV?


----------



## panjj

I agree, Adelphia will needs to upgrade their HD offerings soon. I am afraid, however, that they are using a business model that does not worry about current adopters (those who have OTA tuners, etc.) and are focusing on those new HDTV christmas purchases who are currently on cable and will make the upgrade through them and will be more patient and willing to go through a gradual expansion of channels (not likely to purchase OTA tuners, drop cable and go to sat., etc.).


I would like to have a single box solution, hence my hope they will expand quickly and allow me to sell the OTA HD tuner. I look forward to a PVR/HD box, with full cable HD coverage. We shall see.


----------



## Shark73

If nothing is added by the Super Bowl, I will leave Adelphia for WOW. Currently, WOW is offering all of the locals in HD and I have DirecTv for the HD movie channels. The only thing keeping me with Adelphia right now is my cable modem and email address. However, I can get over that if they continue to waste my time with only two local channels.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Steve B_
> *Does anyone know if Cleveland will be able to get the Rose Parade in HD OTA? Rumor has is that CBS will offer it, but does anyone know for sure if we will get it?*



There's no HD indication for this broadcast on any of the TitanTV listings - not locally, not nationally. So it doesn't appear that CBS or anyone else is offering it at the network level. Too bad, they missed an opportunity with that one.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Do some of the local Cleveland digital stations go off the air from time to time? I haven't been able to pick up CBS/19 at all this evening - I get no signal whatsoever. All the other channels are fine, and 19 was fine yesterday. But tonight it's nowhere to be found.


Then a few minutes ago, 43/UPN disappeared. Do they go off at midnight?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Do some of the local Cleveland digital stations go off the air from time to time? I haven't been able to pick up CBS/19 at all this evening - I get no signal whatsoever. All the other channels are fine, and 19 was fine yesterday. But tonight it's nowhere to be found.
> 
> 
> Then a few minutes ago, 43/UPN disappeared. Do they go off at midnight?*



I don't know what OTA receiver you are using, but on my Samsung T165, the signal strength meter is pretty useless, I get either "no" signal or 50%, there is nothing in between, so what looks like "off the air" really is just a marginal signal.


Re UPN, it wouldn't surprise me if they shut the digital xmission off at midnight, I know the other stations used to do that. I guess it saves money until there is a critical mass of DTV viewers. Some stations used to not turn the digital channel on until noon each day.


-- Paul


----------



## rlockshin

Channel 43 digital is on the air noon to midnight


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *There's no HD indication for this broadcast on any of the TitanTV listings - not locally, not nationally. So it doesn't appear that CBS or anyone else is offering it at the network level. Too bad, they missed an opportunity with that one.*



The parade is on DiscoveryHD.


And probably on CBS, too.


----------



## PPS

I've noticed a couple of times on Channel 43 that when the HD program is over the screen goes black. They might have to switch the SD signal manually and are slow on the trigger.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Thanks for the info - I think I'm mostly just having reception problems. I've only been at this for a week or so, and I don't really have enough history to know what to expect. Yesterday and today, I seem to be having a lot of trouble getting a decent signal out of 19 and 43. 3, 5, and 8 are coming in OK.


I've got an attic antenna, and I've tried a moving it and rotating it in various ways. I've also tried an antenna amplifier, which seemed to help just slightly.


43 is by far the most troublesome of the bunch.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I've got an attic antenna, and I've tried a moving it and rotating it in various ways. I've also tried an antenna amplifier, which seemed to help just slightly.*



IMHO, the attic can be a real signal killer and amplifiers are of little help. After trying increasingly larger Radio Shack outdoor antennas and the big Channelmaster UHF array inside the house, in attic, in windows, I ended up shelving those and went with a Silver Sensor placed in a 3rd floor window attached to a continuous RG6 coax run to the 1st floor receiver. The only channel giving me a hard time is 3-1,3-2. Some days I need to up/down past that channel a couple times to get the receiver to lock on. I know I can get even better performance out of the Silver Sensor if I mounted it outside.


----------



## jtscherne

FYI, the Plain Dealer had an article about Adelphia's HD rollout in the Thursday newspaper (it was in the regular Thursday home section). From reading it, it sounds like Adelphia may have been a little surprised about HD interest in the area and that they were overwhelmed.


As to future channels, they just indicate that negotiations are underway, but no dates are given.


----------



## ammiller2

Does anyone know why ABC stretched the first two bowl games yesterday on the OTA signal and then had the last bowl game in 4:3 mode?


I realize that none of the games yesterday were broadcast in HD, but it's nice to receive the digital OTA signal in 16:9 format.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I noted the other day that I was having a lot of trouble getting a decent signal out of 19 and 43 here, even though 3, 5, and 8 are coming in fine. Is it possible that 19 and 43 are running at significantly lower power than the other three? I remember seeing a site somewhere showing the transmitter power in use by the various stations, but I can't remember where it was. Can anyone help with this?


If it's just a question of waiting until 19 and 43 come up to full power, I'll just wait. Or could it be that the higher frequencies have trouble getting through the attic wall more than the lower frequencies? It'll take some work to move the antenna outdoors, but if that's the only solution I may give it a try.


Of course, there's yet another alternative I suppose. I could just wait for Adelphia to finish their "negotiations" and skip the OTA reception completely.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ammiller2_
> *Does anyone know why ABC stretched the first two bowl games yesterday on the OTA signal and then had the last bowl game in 4:3 mode?
> 
> 
> I realize that none of the games yesterday were broadcast in HD, but it's nice to receive the digital OTA signal in 16:9 format.*



I don't know why they do this. The last game was the only one I could stand to watch. If it is not in HD, then please just show it 4:3. The stretched 16:9 looks very bad.


----------



## bassguitarman

What frustrates me is I've had HD now for a year and there has not been ONE OTA HDTV station added out of the 5 possibilities. Talk about waiting until the last minute. Come on PBS, WB, and UNI. Get with the program !


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Univsion was on for a few days and then the signal went dead if that makes you feel any better.


Plus you can get TBN 17 out of the akron area, but they have so many problems and a lot of bad programming that it aint anything to get excited about.




As far as the stretch on 5. I hate it, that and channel 3.


If they insist on stretching non-hd programming, at least leave all network stuff in 4:3 and local stuff 16:9. since no one really cares about local programming.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *FYI, the Plain Dealer had an article about Adelphia's HD rollout in the Thursday newspaper (it was in the regular Thursday home section). From reading it, it sounds like Adelphia may have been a little surprised about HD interest in the area and that they were overwhelmed.
> 
> 
> As to future channels, they just indicate that negotiations are underway, but no dates are given.*



I have had OTA for several years. I don't think anything you do will help with ch19. I have the same problems. Some nights it is great, other nights it breaks up or disappears completely. I have a large antenna with a rotor and also tried installing an amp at the antenna. Nothing helped. I havn't watched 43. 3, 5, and 8 digital channels (2, 15, 31) usually come in fine. 19's digital channel is 10. I got the COMCAST HD box this week and was disappointed to find they only have NBC and FOX. It looks like they are adding ABC in the channel shakeup on the 15th as well as upping the price by five bucks. So that leaves CH 19 only OTA. I was hoping the box would solve the CH19 problem since CBS has a lot of the programs we watch.


----------



## intermod

Check out Antennaweb.org


They added a "Miles From" column that I never saw before. The warm weather is giving some spring like propagation. I got channel 21 which usually does'nt come in. There are a lot more stations listed on antennweb.org than I have ever seen before including Detroit, Mi.


Be that as it may I do not see WNEO channel 46 listed. Wonder if any of you guys south of me in Royalton can pick them up. It is on the Titan TV listing for my location as are a couple of Y-Town stations that I cant get either.


Thanks and Happy new Year


Dan


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Check out Antennaweb.org
> 
> 
> Be that as it may I do not see WNEO channel 46 listed. Wonder if any of you guys south of me in Royalton can pick them up.
> 
> Dan*



I'm in Stark county and have been getting digital WNEO 46 for what seems like over a month now. It is not a real strong signal. It is just showing the PBS HD loop for now and a multi-cast of the analog channel on 46-2.


If anyone at WNEO reads this, please stop the multi-casting and don't stretch your non-16:9 shows. These are two of the biggest mistakes digital channels make.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I got to work today and put up an outside antenna. All that work, but still no CBS. I'm rather annoyed. I'll tinker with the orientation some tomorrow, but I've had enough for one day. It was a lot of work, but there is some benefit - at least I'm now getting a good signal on 43/UPN. But I'm really beginning to wonder if CBS19 isn't actually just running an intermittent operation. It sure seems like it. Sometimes the signal is just weak, other times it vanishes completely and no amount of tweaking will bring it in.


Is anyone here getting 19 consistently, or does it come and go for everyone?


----------



## wfwiles

That has been the problem I have seen on WOIO for ever. Sometimes it is solid for 45 minutes and then break up terribly. Irritating when it breaks up three quarters thru the program.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I get WOIO no problem.


The only problems I have is with their frequent audio problems, but thats a problem at the station, not with the broadcasting.


Watched parts of Zoro tonight and it was all good. Remember HD football tomorrow.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I've finally achieved some success with 19. I reoriented the antenna to a somewhat more northern heading and I'm getting the five major local stations quite well now. Antennaweb.org says that these stations are all slightly south of west for me, but I'm finally getting them by pointing slightly north of west. I'm not sure where the discrepancy lies, but I'm getting good results now so I'm not going to worry about it. Well, at least until WB and PBS come along.


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

Hello !


I live in Fairview Park and am considering buying the Channel Master 3671 and the Fusion HD card. Anyone have that combo by chance? I love watching Seinfeld on 43 every night and then switching to Leno and Conan before bed. Should I get some kind of rotor thing to move my antenna or will the Channel Master be strong enough to pick up NBC and WUAB without turning it?


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shawn Pilichis_
> *... Should I get some kind of rotor thing to move my antenna or will the Channel Master be strong enough to pick up NBC and WUAB without turning it?*



Have you gone to the web site:
www.antennaweb.org 

and checked out your stations' directions. You'll probably see that all the stations you want are in the same direction, implying that you don't need a rotor. (Though you'll in some posts that 'direction' is a story unto itself.)


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I've finally achieved some success with 19. I reoriented the antenna to a somewhat more northern heading.*



My experience is the same. The nominal orientation from my house is 232 degrees. Lately, I have had to point at 260 degrees to receive 19-1.


I can see ghosting on the analog 19-0, so I'm pretty sure there is some multipath in the picture.


But the 'best' orientation seems to fluctuate with the climate.


(At 260 degrees, I can't get much of anything else -- I have to rotate back to 232.


----------



## Rbuchina

Stan,


Since the leaves have fallen I now receive WOIO without any of the problems I had through the summer. I live north of Rt 2 so I'm in close proximity to you. It looks like I will need to chop some trees down next spring if my reception problems return with the leaves. Perhaps Comcast will be all set up by then with all the locals.


Ray


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *Stan,
> 
> 
> Since the leaves have fallen I now receive WOIO without any of the problems I had through the summer. I live north of Rt 2 so I'm in close proximity to you. It looks like I will need to chop some trees down next spring if my reception problems return with the leaves. Perhaps Comcast will be all set up by then with all the locals.
> 
> 
> Ray*



I just got my OTA box connected back up this afternoon. I only have one HD input on the TV so put the cable box on it last week. I will see if WOIO has improved. It has been very sporatic in the past. COMCAST only has two of the local stations on at the moment with the third listed for the channel shakeup the 15th.....


----------



## Shark73

For those with HD cable...How's NBC tonight for you? I'm trying to watch Las Vegas and I the picture keeps dropping out.


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *For those with HD cable...How's NBC tonight for you? I'm trying to watch Las Vegas and I the picture keeps dropping out.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jim*



Were you watching WKYC? I was seeing major dropouts and pixelization on my equipment too. I even had my guys reboot the encoder.


----------



## BoilerBob

I was watching WKYC OTA and it was dropping out and locking up every minute or so. I had to switch to the satellite signal in SD.


----------



## Dweezilz

Just wondering if any of you guys had problems with CSI Miami's audio feed on WOIO tonight (and last week). For some reason, the sound was in 5 channel stereo. My Yamaha showed it in stereo although it sounded like each of my 5 speakers was producing the same sounds. I switched channels to NBC, ABC, Fox, Discovery-HD etc... and all of those seemed to be in either DD or Surround sound & were perfectly normal. Only WOIO was off. This is the 2nd week in a row the sound was like this.


Anyone else notice this?


-Todd


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *Were you watching WKYC? I was seeing major dropouts and pixelization on my equipment too. I even had my guys reboot the encoder.*



Yes, I was watching WKYC out of Cleveland via Adelphia and OTA. Sometimes I have trouble pulling WKYC in via OTA....last night was one of those nights. I switched to cable and it was just as bad.


Jim


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Reference the video dropouts:


WKYC has been doing this since Saturday, although I only notice it when they are receiving the network HD feed. I havnt really seen it when they show non HD material, although I also have not seen much non HD NBC material.


I loved the commercial for HD on WKYC last night, talking about how they offer the best possible picture. - HAHA


Attn: WKYC


The day you fix the intense video dropouts, and you stop multicasting useless channels, then you can talk. Until then, of the 4 HD channels in Cleveland, they have without a doubt the worst picture quality.


Rant off


----------



## oachalon

i just got comcast digital cable with hd and there is some hd channels but i was wondering if we were getting any more on the 15th when they add more channels.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Hey guys I have a non-HD related question for you that hopefully someone can help out with.


Do any of you have dish network, with the Multi-sport package that allows you to get every fox sports network throughout the USA? The Indians had a problem with Fox Sports Ohio and dish last year, where they only showed 75 games, this year, all 150 will be shown. I was thinking about just getting the Multi-Sport package from dish, but was curious if you got other Professional sports from other cities on the other regional networks. Like if you got the Reds on Fox Sports Cincinnati. Or are these games blacked out?




Umm, to keep this thread on HD topic: Channel 3 multicasting sucks! Hows that?


----------



## fpo701

I'm new to the whole HD thing. I just bought a Mitsu HDTV and am trying to decide on the next step. I guess that means I have questions. I'm a TWC customer, so that means locally I get 3, 5, and 8. (btw, I like the multicast simply because the non-HD digital channel 3 looked better than analog thanks to TWC.) I guess I don't know what I'm missing having never seen HD. I'm wondering what the locals broadcast in when they are not broadcasting a HD program. Is it simply a digital signal at the same resolution as analog (420i?)? Is it somewhere between 420i and 1080i? In other words, am I getting a better resolution even if it is not HD?


Thanks...


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Like if you got the Reds on Fox Sports Cincinnati. Or are these games blacked out?
> 
> 
> Umm, to keep this thread on HD topic: Channel 3 multicasting sucks! Hows that?*



Mike,


I have Direct instead of Dish, but I do have the Sports Pack which sounds exactly the same. I can tell you that out of market games are always blacked out on Direct. But that might be because of the multitude of additional league packages you can get (MLB, NHL, MLS, etc.) Does Dish carry the same type of league packages? If so, I'm sure the out of market games would most likely be blacked out.


I was, however, pleasantly surprised to find that we're in both the Columbus Blue Jackets' market and the Pittsburgh Penguins'. The Pens games are not blacked out on Direct. I couldn't tell you if the Pirates' games are the same way, though. Not much of a baseball fan.


Go Jackets!


By the way, I slightly disagree with the multicasting thing. I like the radar.


----------



## danton3

ZMAN - with this new direct tv deal that will show a cbs HD feed... will we be able to get it??


----------



## oachalon

Has NBC been having problems. I try to watch leno and i cant. It just keeps messing up. I have comcast. HBOHD works fine INHD1 and INHD2 works fine. ESPNHD works fine and FOXHD if it even is works fine. Why is it always nbc messing up. Oh yeah i live in mentor, and i was wondering if on the 15th comcast is giving us more hd channels.


----------



## rlb

Regarding new D* CBS HD deal. We aren't in an owned and operated market. I don't think we will be able to get CBS via D*.


----------



## Shark73

oachalon,


If you go back to page 25 of this thread...I had the same problem with NBC at the start of the week. I was using OTA and Adelphia cable and the video drops were awful.


As far as the new deals that D* has signed in the past few days. If you want CBS-HD via D*, you must request a waiver from the station. As rlb stated, our local CBS is not an O & O. However, our local Fox station is an O & O, thus we should be able to get the Fox-EDTV channel when it goes up. And lets not forget the Fox goes HD in 2004.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oachalon_
> *Has NBC been having problems. I try to watch leno and i cant. It just keeps messing up. I have comcast. HBOHD works fine INHD1 and INHD2 works fine. ESPNHD works fine and FOXHD if it even is works fine. Why is it always nbc messing up. Oh yeah i live in mentor, and i was wondering if on the 15th comcast is giving us more hd channels.*



Comcast CH32 lists the channel lineup. It looks like we might be getting ABC 5.1 added but still no CBS......


----------



## Lyle O

I haven't seen this mentioned in awhile. Does anyone know what is going on with WVIZ (PBS)? They were supposed to be up last year, but I haven't heard any new info yet.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *
> 
> However, our local Fox station is an O & O, thus we should be able to get the Fox-EDTV channel when it goes up. And lets not forget the Fox goes HD in 2004.*



I didn't realize that our Fox station was O&O. That's good news! Although Fox is probably the strongest digital station I get OTA here in Medina. Will we have to do anything since it's an O&O, or will the station just come in automatically?


What about NBC? I'm assuming it's an affiliate, but just in case someday Direct decides to pick up an NBC HD feed, would we stand a chance? Are they O&O?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *I didn't realize that our Fox station was O&O. That's good news! Although Fox is probably the strongest digital station I get OTA here in Medina. Will we have to do anything since it's an O&O, or will the station just come in automatically?
> 
> 
> What about NBC? I'm assuming it's an affiliate, but just in case someday Direct decides to pick up an NBC HD feed, would we stand a chance? Are they O&O?*




If you pay for the locals through D*, you will get the Fox EDTV channel for free. If you don't sub to the locals you will not get the Fox EDTV channel.


Not sure if NBC is O&O or not. Will need to look into that after lunch.


----------



## StanZ

WKYC has been owned by Gannett (As in USA today.)


WVIZ last reported here that they continue to have 'tower' problems; and so they were looking at having cable companies carry their HD feed, even before they could broadcast it themselves.


----------



## danton3

how does the waiver thing work??? what are our chances? im able to get fox and cbs via my ANTENNA but cant get cbs or nbc at all... im in munroe falls now


----------



## Shark73

I spoke with someone at WOIO and the chance of any of us getting a waiver from WOIO is very slim. They determine waivers by the DMA information for your address, no exceptions from what I was told.


----------



## SteveC

titantv.com lists the WVIZ live date as May 9, 2004.


Steve


----------



## oachalon

on channel 32 comcast shows cbs(hd) on the updated channel listing. Maybe we are getting cbs. Also am i going to actually get cinemax hd. I already get hbo hd and since i have hbo and cinemax im waiting for cinemax hd.


----------



## wfwiles

What channel on the listing on CH32 do you see CBS on? All I see on the listing for local HD is ABC, NBC, and FOX.


----------



## oachalon

wow i messed up i swear i thought i saw cbs in there. Dont know what i was looking at. Sorry


----------



## Rob Ables

If only we could get CBSHD on Comcast........


Someday....



Actually, I don't see ABC on my channel 32 listing for 1/15/04. They show NBC and Fox at the end of the list, that's it.


Rob


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *titantv.com lists the WVIZ live date as May 9, 2004.*



Unfortunately, that date is meaningless - titantv all last year had WVIZ-DT listed to go live Nov 2003 and it did not happen. When I bitched to WVIZ about that, the engineering person said they were having problems and they were looking into cableco's carrying it before the OTA xmitter was ready (like Stan said)


-- Paul


----------



## oachalon

i see abc hd on channel 32. It tells me its gonna be channel 210.


----------



## Dweezilz

Hey guys, I really need some info here on this. For the last two weeks, WOIO has been terrible for me. It is not coming in as normal Dolby Surround sound. Both nights of CSI last week had audio problems & it seemed like all 5 of my speakers had the same sound coming out of them. Every other channel was fine & was either Surround or DD. Today's football game is the same...no surround sound & it appears to be the same tinny sound coming from each speaker. I haven't changed anything that I can think of in my Yamaha RXV-1200 & every single other channel / DVD is perfectly fine.


Is anyone else having this problem? If not, what do you guys think the problem might be?? Using Dish 811.


-Todd


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

The football game yesterday and saturday night were money for me on CBS. I was actually surprised that they have managed to dish out 3 solid HD football performances in a row on woio. They dont have DD surround, just stereo so I use pro logic 2 for my sound format. Its got to be your gear, but Im not sure why it would sound like that. All 7 of my speakers have sound coming from them in PLII, but its of course different sound.


----------



## Dweezilz

OK, I figured out the problem (but can't fix it). I called Dish Network & it turns out that they had a software glitch with the 811 receiver where it was sending only the left channel as both the right & the left channel audio for a bunch of OTA digital locals. They put in a software fix about a week ago to fix the issue. This fixed the problem for about 90% of the stations, but as is our luck, one of the stations that still has the issue is WOIO Cleveland. The tech support guy said they are working on another software fix for this but didn't know when it would be released. I figured the 811 would have some bugs but that is strange in that it's only one channel. I wonder why WOIO is sending audio that is different than the other stations?


On the plus side, tonight I had the sound coming from my Adelphia digital cable box for CBS WOIO & it was actually in sync with the OTA DTV WOIO, so I was able to watch CSI-Miami in HD & have the surround sound! HA! Usually it's not in sync with the analog but it was tonight. I hope it continues to be so that I can use this work around until Dish fixes the software.


-Todd


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *Chuck will start off in Cleveland where he will work his magic on at least 7 displays. He will start on the 13th of January, and stay in Cleveland until the 16th of January.*



So, any reports from the ISF Tour? How is it going?


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Chuck was wonderful! I am very pleased with his work, and I plan on having him out again in the future.


He arrived early and was pleasant as always. After we caught up, he went right to work on my Mits(that was previously calibrated by him 2 years ago). He re-calibrated the display on all formats and took off the glare screen (he finally talked me into it). I am amazed at what an improvement his touch ups made, and my sister came down and noticed a difference (that's saying a lot







).


The improvement in the Mits was worth the price alone, but after he finished the mits, I fired up the DWIN TV3. When he first came down, he noted that the picture was WAY to blue. Boy was he right! What was supposed to be 6500K out of the factory was more like 10,000K! He sat down and went to town on the projector. He set everything to around 6500K, did grayscale, adjusted the sharpness and set the colors to their accurate values. The DWIN was WAY off! End result on the calibration...It looks wonderful!!! Would I do it again, you bet you A$$ I would! I am thunderstruck at the difference that this calibration yielded.


If you are thinking about having Chuck out to do your display, I can honestly tell you that you won't regret it. He is a very nice guy who included me and made me feel part of the process by explaining what he was doing and how it benefits the display.


As I look over to my freshly calibrated display while writing this, I know that this is the best $ you can spend for your HT.



Fred


----------



## PPS

Anyone have any experience with Cox Cable HD?


----------



## StanZ

They realigned and added channels today.


Cinemax HD seems to be on a free sampling. Channel 233 (and 319) were showing 'From Hell' in non-OAR, but with 5.1 sound.


StarZ HD was not available at my house.


(Caution: The movie after 'From Hell' was not in HD.)


----------



## Dweezilz

Update on my Dish 811. Although it's hard to believe, Dish has fixed the issues with WOIO!! When I called they said they would be contacting WOIO to work out the difficulties & all it took was 2 days & it's fixed.


Wow, sometimes Dish actually does come through with something good. On the other hand, it was to fix something that shouldn't have been broken in the 1st place...oh well.


-Todd


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Update on my Dish 811. Although it's hard to believe, Dish has fixed the issues with WOIO!! When I called they said they would be contacting WOIO to work out the difficulties & all it took was 2 days & it's fixed.
> 
> 
> Wow, sometimes Dish actually does come through with something good. On the other hand, it was to fix something that shouldn't have been broken in the 1st place...oh well.
> 
> 
> -Todd*



WEWS on channel 210 is also missing as is DIY on channel 121. Looks like COMCAST doesn't have their act together.........


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by IlyaV_
> *So, any reports from the ISF Tour? How is it going?*



I agree with Fred in that Chuck was very friendly and inviting. I had Chuck calibrate my 2 year old Pio plasma. My results weren't as dramatic, though, since my Pio was basically at the calibrated settings. Chuck did turn down my contrast, which is good because this can significantly shorten the life of my set. I had hoped to improve the picture quality of my SD content, which is Comcast cable. Unfortunately, the problem was with the incoming signal, not the TV.


My HD picture looks the same also since it was already perfect. Chuck also checked my DVD player (RP-91) and, once again, everything's great at the 0 settings - no adjustments needed.


This all cost $340 for about 3 1/2 hours work, which is a lot for no real improvement. But at least I know now that it's as good as it's going to get, which is great for HD and DVD. I will probably change my SD supplier to DirectTV or possibly VOOM down the road.


----------



## Dweezilz

Chuck just left my house. He was great. Did an electrostatic focus...which was pretty good he said anyway. Now it's better. Manual focus was good enough so he left it alone instead of taking apart the back of the TV. Convergence was already pretty good so not much needed there. He adjusted brightness settings that I've never seen in the service menu & also adjusted the user end settings which weren't right. Even though he wasn't doing an official ISF, Chuck was VERY VERY cool & fixed a bunch of gray scale stuff by sight/memory, just because he saw it was out of wack & wanted to help me by getting it at least in the ball park. He has a Sony TV similar to mine that helped him know where to set them. He fixed a bunch of color issues too. The end result was a much better HD picture! Even my wife noted that it looked better. More details & considerably more crisp.


I'm glad he came out & I will have him back in the future as it was fun to watch him do his stuff & the results were great.


On another note, I jumped the gun on thanking Dish Network for fixing the surround audio on CBS...it's fixed for many of the CBS programs on other nights, but tonight I've discovered it's still LEFT channel only coming out of all 5 speakers for CSI...man that sucks. I'll wait another week & call Dish AGAIN to bug them to fix it.


-Todd


----------



## panjj

I just finished with the calibration and it resulted in a great improvement in picture fidelity. Chuck made significant adjustments in my GWII's picture, discovered a bad component cable with my DVD player, and fine tuned the DVD's output as well. Watching LOR Two Towers was like watching a new movie.


Very pleased with the results and recommend the service highly.


----------



## Bizily

Did anyone notice that WUABDT (UPN) was broadcasting a movie called Gossip tonight in HD. I've never received this channel in HD before. I wonder if this will stick.


----------



## oachalon

Bizily do you have comcast digital cable. If you do what channel is upn hd in. Its not showing up on my box when i think they said that in the channel change that it was going to. I didnt get any new hd channels like we were suppose to except cinemax hd.


----------



## takosan

Greetings All! I have another question.


I don't have cable or satellite, only OTA HD, but recently got the urge to get more HD content.


For cable, in North Olmsted, I can either get Adelphia or WOW. The latter (WOW) I do have cable Internet service from them.


I've had basic E* before I got rid of it & went OTA. So there's still E*, DirectTV, and is there some 'new' satellite provider exclusive to HD? I saw this in one of the Sear's ads couple weekends ago before I started to think about other HD contents so I didn't note the name.


Does anyone here have any input as to which way to go?


Thanks,

Robert


----------



## SteveC

WUAB has been doing HD for a month or two. Enterprise and Jake 2.0 on Wednesday nights are in HD. They sometimes do their Friday night movie in HD. The problem is that it is often preempted by a Cavs game. When they rebroadcast the movie over the weekend it is always in SD. They apparently don't have the equipment to record the HD feed from UPN. Titantv.com has been pretty good about listing what shows on the networks will be in HD.


Steve


----------



## SteveC

takosan,

The "new" satellite provider is VOOM. If you go by the numbers they do have more HD channels than anyone. One big one that they don't have though is ESPNHD. They also carry a limited number of SD channels. I'm a sci-fi nut and the deal beaker for me was the fact that they don't carry the Sci-Fi channel. Who knows though, they are just getting started so that may change. You can check them out at voom.com.


Steve


----------



## hoops10

Be wary of VOOM. There have been numerous posts about install nightmares. You may want to wait it out a bit and let the service mature a little.


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oachalon_
> *Bizily do you have comcast digital cable. If you do what channel is upn hd in. Its not showing up on my box when i think they said that in the channel change that it was going to. I didnt get any new hd channels like we were suppose to except cinemax hd.*



I have standard Comcast cable, not digital. I receive all of my HD content OTA. I didn't realize that WUABDT (43-1) has been doing HD for awhile now. I'll have to tune in to the Wednesday night programming that SteveC mentions. Though, after watching the movie Gossip last night for about an hour, the signal switched back to SD. This movie was just not interesting enough to watch in SD, so I turned to something else.


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hoops10_
> *Be wary of VOOM. There have been numerous posts about install nightmares. You may want to wait it out a bit and let the service mature a little.*



Well, my VOOM installation went smooth. Cleveland's local VOOM installers are not too bad. Plus, there is enough information on this forum to help you out if things do go wrong. And it's certainly worth it. I now have 30 HD channels plus 5 local HD channels. I watch HD 95% of the time! Next month they promise to add 9 more HD channels and a bunch of SD channels. After that I am planning to dump my cable and go VOOM-only.


In comparison, Adelphia's recent HD roll-out of their 4(!) HD channels was a joke (IMHO, anyway)!


----------



## Bizily

VOOM sounds very intriguing. They also have a DVR planned for release this summer: ' http://www .pcmag . com/article2/0%2C4149%2C1430257%2C00.asp'. I'm a TiVo owner and I'd never go back to being without it or something similar. Does anyone know how well the VOOM STB would work with my TiVo standalone STB?


----------



## roblake

The Adelphia repairman was just here (bad length of cable). He said Adelphia would have 4 HD channels by the end of January and a total of 8 "in March" (?). He mentioned they were negotiating for ESPNHD.


I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bizily_
> *Does anyone know how well the VOOM STB would work with my TiVo standalone STB?*



I personally don't know much about TiVo compatibility, but I can say that all of the VOOM STB's outputs are active simultaneously (DVI, component, s-video and composite). So if you have a recorder that accepts one of those types of connections, then you should be able to record. Firewire is not currently supported, but it is coming in the future, according to some reports.


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by IlyaV_
> *...but I can say that all of the VOOM STB's outputs are active simultaneously (DVI, component, s-video and composite).*



I think this would work because I believe TiVo standalones work with other STBs, such as digital cable boxes, by using TiVo's IR transmitter. So my TiVo box would not tune the incoming signal; it would just ouput the desired channel to the VOOM box using the IR transmitter. The only problem is that TiVo would need to know VOOM's lineup and IR codes and I doubt that it does.


I know people are thinking, "Why the hell would you want to use VOOM's downgraded composite signal (or s-video) instead of viewing its glorious HD signal. Heck, that's the beauty of VOOM!" It's just that I don't want to give up my TiVo. TiVo's time-shifting outweighs its second class picture quality. That's also why I have my eyes on the VOOM DVR planned for mid-2004. Then I'll have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bizily_
> *The only problem is that TiVo would need to know VOOM's lineup and IR codes and I doubt that it does.*



Where does the standalone TiVo get its lineup? I guess, most of the independent TV guide providers will have VOOM lineup pretty soon, if they don't have it already.


As for IR codes, when I was programming my receiver's universal remote for VOOM, It didn't have neither VOOM nor Motorola listed, but I discovered that IR codes for the following satellite boxes work well with VOOM STB: General Instrument (GI), Jerrold and Primestar. If you have one of these brands listed, chances are, it might work.


Hey, neighbors! If you have any other VOOM-related questions, I'll be happy to answer!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by roblake_
> *The Adelphia repairman was just here (bad length of cable). He said Adelphia would have 4 HD channels by the end of January and a total of 8 "in March" (?). He mentioned they were negotiating for ESPNHD.
> 
> 
> I'm not holding my breath.*



Would that be 4 more, or is he talking about the 4 they already have?


-Todd


----------



## roblake

Good question! I don't know, sorry.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Fellas


2 weeks from today we embark on the biggest sporting event of the year. 2 weeks from now, everyone will be watching CBS. 2 weeks from now we will all most likely be having parties, showing off how sweet HD is for football. And 2 weeks from now, WOIO will probably royally screw something up and embarass us all in front of our friends because they screwed up the sound or picture.


I'm gonna bring this up again closer to the game, but do you think starting next Wednesday or so, we should start calling up WOIO chief engineer and making damn sure they have everything set up perfectly for the game? I certainly don't want to have to deal with calling the news room the night of the game to flip the switch or something. In all fairness, WOIO has been good from what I have seen over the last few weeks, especially for all the NFL playoff games. Honestly the only problem they have had was a network issue of having that stupid Gumble doing the play by play instead of the main man Dick Enberg.


Just a thought, lets hear yours.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Fellas
> 
> 
> 2 weeks from today we embark on the biggest sporting event of the year. 2 weeks from now, everyone will be watching CBS. 2 weeks from now we will all most likely be having parties, showing off how sweet HD is for football. And 2 weeks from now, WOIO will probably royally screw something up and embarass us all in front of our friends because they screwed up the sound or picture.
> 
> 
> I'm gonna bring this up again closer to the game, but do you think starting next Wednesday or so, we should start calling up WOIO chief engineer and making damn sure they have everything set up perfectly for the game? I certainly don't want to have to deal with calling the news room the night of the game to flip the switch or something. In all fairness, WOIO has been good from what I have seen over the last few weeks, especially for all the NFL playoff games. Honestly the only problem they have had was a network issue of having that stupid Gumble doing the play by play instead of the main man Dick Enberg.
> 
> 
> Just a thought, lets hear yours.*



You mean like two years ago when FOX had their DTV equipment get knocked out by lightening the day before the super bowl & made no mention of it and my house of 35 people had to watch in crummy stretched 4:3? The funny thing about it was that to THIS DAY my friends all make fun of me because I was so pissed that I mised 1/2 the game which was great for a change (New England / St. Louis I think). While they were all busy watching that great game, eating, drinking, I was on the phone with the control room with FOX & raging mad. The point is that even though it was important to me, the vast majority of the people at the party didn't care. That was two years ago though so people might be in tune with 16:9 HD (although FOX is of course only 480P for now). Anyway, I think even should something screw up, it'll be US that will be by far the most upset by it! But, it's worth bugging them a bit probably!










-T


----------



## UncPhil

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and site as well as to hdtv. A couple of weeks ago, I got Directv HD installed at my condo. I also installed a Terk55 antenna to recieve the local channels. However, I don't know if it is the antenna or what, but I cannot get WKYC to come in at all! I receive no signal. I have about 50 ft. of cable from the ant to my tv. When I added another 25ft. of cable, WKYC came in fine, but then none of the other staions came in. So I went back to 50ft. of cable. All the other channels seem to come in decent (WOIO has alot of dropouts). I know people have mixed opinions about the Terk55, but I live in a condo, and I can't really mount anything to my roof, so I have the antenna attached to my patio. Anybody have any ideas on how to get these channels? Maybe some indoor antenna would work better? I live in Painesvile, ohio. Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks alot!


---Phillip


----------



## Southern Spy

WKYC-DT is on VHF Ch 2 - not a UHF channel like the others. Try a good old set of rabbit ears for Ch 2


----------



## wfwiles

You are a long way from the transmitters to get OTA without a good antenna. As was mentioned two of the stations are in the VHF range so a UHF only antenna will probably give you problems. You could try an antenna in the attic which works for some.


----------



## bassguitarman

Channel 3 WKYC DT channel 2 is poor anyway. I have a large attic antenna and cannot consistently receive them.

Unrelated note I see WOIO channel 19 forgot to turn on HD for the 8-11 pm primtetime last night. I crack up when I see the Zenith HDTV promo on a 4/3 picture.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

WOIO also forgot to throw the switch for most of the NFL pregame show yesterday.


Why cant people like us, who care about HD control the switch?


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *...WOIO will probably royally screw something up and embarass us all in front of our friends because they screwed up the sound or picture.*



You can bet there will be problems. Speaking of, how was everyone's signal for the CBS playoff (Pats vs. Colts) yesterday? Mine was awful. It was dropping out so much that I had to switch to SD.


I said this last year and, unfortunately, I have to say it again, but there is no way I would host a Super Bowl party to show off my HD. If it turned out anything like last night's broadcast, I would be laughed out of my own house.


----------



## Bizily




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bassguitarman_
> *...I crack up when I see the Zenith HDTV promo on a 4/3 picture.*



What cracks me up is when I talk to people with standard television who swear that they have HD because of those stupid promos. What's worse is that they then come to the conclusion that HD is no big deal because it is no better than their SD picture. Of course, they're comparing between two SD pictures! The industry is to blame for this. They have royally confused the consumer when it comes to HD.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _*WOIO also forgot to throw the switch for most of the NFL pregame show yesterday.*
> _


_


And we should add that 'Cold Case' on Sunday was totally in 4:3, as telecast by WOIO.


I couldn't work up the enthusiasm to contact them, again._


----------



## UncPhil




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bizily_
> *You can bet there will be problems. Speaking of, how was everyone's signal for the CBS playoff (Pats vs. Colts) yesterday? Mine was awful. It was dropping out so much that I had to switch to SD.*




My reception was good but not great. There were a few dropouts, but not to the point were I would have to switch to SD. The main dropouts I experienced were in the audio. It is horrible!! Also, when I have WOIO on surround sound, it sounds different from any other station. I just doesn't sound right. Sound like same sounds are coming out of all speakers. This is the only station that does this! I wish they would just go to 5.1 already!!


--Phillip


----------



## roblake

Following a prior posting, noting that the signal was VHF, not UHF, I took a connector-with-wire that came with a Sony audio receiver and wrapped the end around a halogen floor lamp ($11 type). Worked very well for CBS, but not much seemed to be HD. Will try it for other VHF-HD later today.


Tacking the wire to the lead (Pb) array in the leaded glass window did NOT work well.


----------



## panjj

has anyone heard when (and if) Adelphia will be offering more HD programs? I called on their PVR and they plan to offer the deck during February, but I can't get any info on new channels. Thanks.


----------



## Brian Morris

Hi all,

I live in willoughby toward the lake off lost nation road. I am having problems with hd reception. I have a new rat shack 120" uhf/vhv antenna, mounted on top of my two story house with a 10 foot pole(the antenna is about 6' above the roof line). I am using RG6 from the antenna until the wall then into a wall plate (around a 30 foot run) ... then to the receiver. The antenna is on the south side of the house and pointed about 220*. I have a fusionII HDTV card in my htpc.


I get 5 8 and 43. I can't get anything from 3(2). My signal strength is about 65-75% on 5 and 8 and a little lower on 43.


I checked the rg6 several times for bad connection...

What could be wrong? is there a way to test the antenna? Could I use a ohm meter at the end of the cable to make sure that its OK ?


I know that it's hard to trouble shoot something that you can't see or touch, bur hopefully someone might have some input.


Thanks for your help

Brian


----------



## Bizily

Hi Brian,


I live in Willoughby just south of you, off of Erie Rd. I also have a rooftop antenna, but mounted on a tripod. Mine is not quite as large nor is it quite as high as yours. I get 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43 very strong. In fact, I've never had a problem with signal strength. I use a Zenith HDV420, though I doubt that that has anything do to with it since it's a pretty basic HD receiver. I don't know much about antenna technology, so I can't help much with your questions. I just wanted to let you know that your on the right track and that it is absolutely possible to get good reception from where you're at.


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Brian Morris_
> *Hi all,
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I get 5 8 and 43. I can't get anything from 3(2). My signal strength is about 65-75% on 5 and 8 and a little lower on 43.
> 
> 
> I checked the rg6 several times for bad connection...
> 
> What could be wrong? is there a way to test the antenna? Could I use a ohm meter at the end of the cable to make sure that its OK ?
> 
> 
> I know that it's hard to trouble shoot something that you can't see or touch, bur hopefully someone might have some input.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help
> 
> Brian*



Brian -


An ohm meter at one end of the cable won't tell you squat unless the cable is shorted out, which is unlikely since you are getting some reception. I can think of a few ways to check it:


1. Find some Adelphia installer at the local bar and convince him to bring his magic meter box over. It will tell you signal strength on the digital channels.


2. Get up on the roof and short out the antenna end of the RG-6. Then measure the resistance from center conductor to shield with an ohm meter. Or you can reverse the process a bit, shorting out the TV end and measuring the resistance from up on the roof. Since you are getting some reception, this may not be worthwhile.


3. Find someone with a time-domain reflectometer (essentially a pulser with a very high-speed oscilloscope. That will tell you the quality of the RG-6 and every connection along the way, as well as indicating how good the cableantenna match is.


BTW, I can't get any hint of NBC 2 here in Cleveland Heights :={{{


----------



## wfwiles

I am within spitting distance from you and receive wkyc pretty strong. While signal strength is relative to the receiving equipment mine is in the 90's. Wkyc's digital channel 2 is at the very low end of the VHF spectrum so maybe the card isn't tuning that low. How well does it receive the analog signal on channel 3? I had a problem recently where channel 2 showed up as 2.1 instead of 3.1 with no signal. I wound up unplugging the receiver and clearing everything in it. After some playing around I finally got it to scan correctly. You might check the RG6 ends to make sure the center wire didn't pull back in. Also make sure the shields are making good contact with the connectors and no strands floating in the connector. Also make sure the balun is good for VHF and UHF. I have seen that happen when the wire is stretched. 220 degrees is about the right angle as that is where my rotor gets the maximum signal. That is about all I can think of at the moment. I do get some periods of interference which is probably reflected signals from the buildings in Cleveland or Aircraft taking off.....


Edit: A last thought, have you checked for and installed the latest drivers for your card and the software for it?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by panjj_
> *has anyone heard when (and if) Adelphia will be offering more HD programs? I called on their PVR and they plan to offer the deck during February, but I can't get any info on new channels. Thanks.*



Will this be an HDTV PVR? I haven't heard anything about adelphia releasing a HD PVR.


Thanks.


Jim


----------



## panjj

The "rumor" is that the initial release is not HD, with an HD option to follow within 2 months. I do not know if this is true.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Brian Morris_
> *I get 5 8 and 43. I can't get anything from 3(2).*



And you don't mention the other VHF station, channel 10 aka 19-1.


Do you get anything in the VHF band?


----------



## Brian Morris

Sorry, yes I do get channel 10 fine,


I have off today so I wanted to fix this thing... I have a rat shack high gain signal amp that I usually use coming out of my dtv receiver to send signal out to the upstairs... I tried it in line with my antenna, and guess what ! I now get everything in the 80-90% well almost... channel 2 is floating from 8% to 65% It's kind of weird.. one second it will have 65% in acouple seconds it has 10% then 0% then back to 65%... I did notice now I get channel 3 (non HDTV), and its clear to boot.. (never got that channel either)


Do you think that a antenna preamp that is mounted up closer to the antenna and not down next to the receiver would work better?

I am not even sure that the amp I am using now, is for what I am using it for.


Thanks for all the input so far...


Brian


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Will this be an HDTV PVR? I haven't heard anything about adelphia releasing a HD PVR.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Jim*



Scientific Atlanta's SA8000HD is the box that Adelphia is looking at but it is not ready yet. Give them and SA a couple of months. As far as programming goes, I hear CBS is being difficult because they have the product ( meaning Super Bowl), but lets see what happens after that. CinemaxHD will definitely launch in Feb. and according to CED Magazine, Adelphia has signed the contract with HDNet . Look for this to air in about 4-6 weeks.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Brian Morris_
> *Sorry, yes I do get channel 10 fine,
> 
> 
> I have off today so I wanted to fix this thing... I have a rat shack high gain signal amp that I usually use coming out of my dtv receiver to send signal out to the upstairs... I tried it in line with my antenna, and guess what ! I now get everything in the 80-90% well almost... channel 2 is floating from 8% to 65% It's kind of weird.. one second it will have 65% in acouple seconds it has 10% then 0% then back to 65%... I did notice now I get channel 3 (non HDTV), and its clear to boot.. (never got that channel either)
> 
> 
> Do you think that a antenna preamp that is mounted up closer to the antenna and not down next to the receiver would work better?
> 
> I am not even sure that the amp I am using now, is for what I am using it for.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the input so far...
> 
> 
> Brian*



I think you need to check the crossovers and all connections on the antenna for a short. It sounds like you have a weak signal coming from the antenna. Make sure the VHF section is strapped to the UHF section correctly. I am using the same antenna as you are. While I have an amp on the antenna it made no difference in the signal. I installed it last fall to see if it would eliminate the dropouts I was seeing especially WOIO. It had no affect. It has been a couple years since I put the antenna up but I remember it came with the UHF and VHF sections separate and they had to be strapped together. Also as I said in a previous post check for pulled back center leads in the connections. If your run is over about 50 feet or you are splitting the cable the amp should help some but you need a solid signal to the amp. It ain't no fun working on antennas in todays weather...


Edit: Noticed you said you use the amp out of your DTV receiver to the upstairs. Is the antenna cable running thru the DTV box to the pc or is it running direct to the pc thru a splitter or whatever. Do you receive 3.1 on the DTV receiver? Maybe a little clarification on your setup will help. One other item, you aren't using any FM traps are you.....


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Brian Morris_
> *Do you think that a antenna preamp that is mounted up closer to the antenna and not down next to the receiver would work better?
> *



My preamp was originally at the antenna. Later, an antenna installer replaced it with one at the point of entry in the basement. He said they have better luck with them. They also last longer.


I'm happy with it. I'd say signal strength is about the same either way.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *My preamp was originally at the antenna. Later, an antenna installer replaced it with one at the point of entry in the basement. He said they have better luck with them. They also last longer.
> 
> 
> I'm happy with it. I'd say signal strength is about the same either way.*



Hi Stan, I found the same thing. I was getting dropouts on 3.1 and loosing 19.1 a lot so I tried a RS four way splitter amp which didn't help. I then put an amp on the antenna which made no difference. Lately the signals have been pretty good if only WOIO would only transmit the HD shows in HD.....


----------



## DTVFanatic




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *My preamp was originally at the antenna. Later, an antenna installer replaced it with one at the point of entry in the basement. He said they have better luck with them. They also last longer.
> 
> 
> I'm happy with it. I'd say signal strength is about the same either way.*



If most or all of your stations are moderate to strong, placing the preamp at the entry point may be a better way to go. The extra couple of db loss in the coax may help avoid overdriving the amp. RF is funny that way. If you have a lot and make it bigger, the picture gets worse. From the fluctuating signal level, I'd say there's something loose and blowing in the wind at his antenna. The only time I've had signal swings that big was when only one of two wires was connected.


----------



## Shark73

WOIO is the only local station not showing the HD feed of the State of the Union tonight. They better get their act together for the Super Bowl. This is getting really bad again. Lets start calling and sending emails again.


Jim


----------



## Brian Morris

I am sorry for the setup confusion,

On the Dtv receiver I have the normal dual LBN in only, I use the S-video out for main video. I use the RF out to send signal also to a upstairs room. The line runs to three rooms so I had the amp right at the Dtv receiver to keep the signal strong.


The hdtv antenna only goes to the Fusion II card in the PC(htpc). Theres no splitters in line. Only the wall plate and now the amp.

On the amp there is a FM trap that I do have on...


I really want to check the connections and antenna out, but its so so cold and very high up on the snowy slippery roof...


Maybe I should call someone and have them check it out up there for me.

Does someone know who does that kind of stuff ? Then again I hate to pay someone to do something that I could do...


Thanks again for all the help guys, I usually hang in the CRT and HTPC parts of the forum... now I have a new section to check out !!!!


Brian


----------



## ParsonsBri

I dont know about you guys, but I have just about had it WKYC and Adelphia for that matter. How is it that I am getting big time pixelization and signal dropouts on adelphia's cable feed for Ch. 3? I thought I was watching the OTA feed! Last night the State of the Union rhetoric...uhh.. I mean "address" was excellent quality on both WEWS and WKYC (although one could argue the merits of either 1080i or 720p respectively). Tonight, no good. Dropouts everywhere? I am at my wits end. It doesn't help that my wife is so fed up with it she dives for the remote at the first sign of dropout and we go back to D*. I dont want to get off on a rant, but...


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *I dont know about you guys, but I have just about had it WKYC and Adelphia for that matter.*



I don't think any of the stations or cable/satellite companies really have their acts together on this stuff yet. At least not based on my experiences and the various reports that I've read here.


I was pleased to see that Enterprise is now in HD on UPN here in Cleveland. But somehow for the last ten minutes of the show, they switched back to SD. I don't get it - why can't they get this stuff together?


The signal was dropping out a bit too often for my liking as well, but that probably just means that I need to get my antenna up higher. That'll have to wait for warmer weather.


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

In need of help.


I just took delivery on a Wingard PR-7052. I am replacing the "stock" antenna that was on my house when I bought it 3 years ago. So far, I can never get digital NBC to stay solid for more than 5 minutes and digital 5 and 8 tend be moody on any given day. Analog Channel 43 rarely comes in without static and I get PBS maybe 2 times a month. I am hoping that the new Wingard will clear all this up for me because I am excited to watch PBS when it goes digital.


I plan to have a local shop install it for me. I may use Westpark TV on Lorain RD near me but I wanted to check here to see if anyone can suggest a more affordable alternative. They said something around $250 to install it for me. That sounds steep but I don't know anything about pricing antenna installs.


I'd like to have fresh cabling put in from the roof to my basement and split the signal to 4 rooms. I have a single story bungalow in Fairview Park.


thanks!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Shawn,


If you are doing all of this mainly for PBS I would wait. At the very earliest I doubt they will be digital until the summer, and I would bet later than that. Also, how well you receive the analog station has nothing to do with your digital reception. So if you can hardly get PBS, you may get the Digital PBS just peachy.


WKYC Digital 2 seems to give everyone grief, it is a very difficult signal to pull in.


I don't know how daring you are, but before you spend any money and after the snow melts, get out a ladder and see what you can do to the antenna for positioning. I'm using a cheap 30 dollar antenna from Sears Hardware and only have trouble with an occasional signal, but thats due to my elevation and buildings around me. If I had the antenna a little higher I bet I would get everything in Cleveland just fine. Go up on the roof, see how easy it is to turn, and make sure it is pointing where you need it. Check out www.antennaweb.org for help with directions.


Or just throw up a pair of rabit ears and see what you get, you may be surprised.


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

Thanks Mike, but I already have a 110" Winegard Antenna sitting in my living room. I was hoping someone could suggest good affordable installer for it.


BTW, any reason why you ordered me to post in this thread instead of just politely answering me in my other original post last week?


----------



## Argee

I live in Portage county just past Streetsboro and get all 5 HD feeds from Cleveland just fine. I have an outside antenna (ratshack) about 20 feet off the ground.

BTW, WEWS ch5 is now in their new news broadcast studios and the news is HD along with most if not all local news stories. You can really see Ted Henry's age lines! LOL!


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shawn Pilichis_
> *In need of help.
> 
> 
> I just took delivery on a Wingard PR-7052. I am replacing the "stock" antenna that was on my house when I bought it 3 years ago. So far, I can never get digital NBC to stay solid for more than 5 minutes and digital 5 and 8 tend be moody on any given day. Analog Channel 43 rarely comes in without static and I get PBS maybe 2 times a month. I am hoping that the new Wingard will clear all this up for me because I am excited to watch PBS when it goes digital.
> 
> 
> I plan to have a local shop install it for me. I may use Westpark TV on Lorain RD near me but I wanted to check here to see if anyone can suggest a more affordable alternative. They said something around $250 to install it for me. That sounds steep but I don't know anything about pricing antenna installs.
> 
> 
> I'd like to have fresh cabling put in from the roof to my basement and split the signal to 4 rooms. I have a single story bungalow in Fairview Park.
> 
> 
> thanks!*



I would consider $250 reasonable to do the work. When you consider all the costs a company has to put a qualified rep in the field it isn't cheap. He has to be insured in case the rep does any damage, pay workman comp fees, ss, medical plan, etc. I doubt that he could put a tech in the field for under $100 an hour. In fact I don't think I would do it as an individual for less.......


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Argee_
> *BTW, WEWS ch5 is now in their new news broadcast studios and the news is HD along with most if not all local news stories. You can really see Ted Henry's age lines! LOL!*



Actually the WEWS news does not appear to be HD, it is just a good SD digital signal (and stretched to something like 14:9?). WKYC News is a decievingly good SD broadcast as well. I thought that was HD the first time I saw it.


-- Paul


----------



## Shark73

Paul,


I think WKYC does do the news in HD. Can someone confirm this?


Jim


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Shawn as you can tell this is a purely Cleveland thread. I myself rarely check for other threads about our local area and I'm sure others here dont either. I just happened to see your thread on the top of the list randomly. You'll get the most results here, and I was also hoping you would continue to post in this thread, to help share information on HD in Cleveland from your own personal experiences.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I've heard that WKYC does do news in HD, but I dont think I have seen it. The picture looks great, but you can tell its stretched by simply flipping over to 3-2 or the analog signal. Channel 3 doesnt do a straight up stretch, its narrower in the middle than on the extreme sides, its also zoomed a bit. But Im sure we've all noticed that on other shows, cuz it doesnt look good


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *I've heard that WKYC does do news in HD, but I dont think I have seen it. The picture looks great, but you can tell its stretched by simply flipping over to 3-2 or the analog signal. Channel 3 doesnt do a straight up stretch, its narrower in the middle than on the extreme sides, its also zoomed a bit. But Im sure we've all noticed that on other shows, cuz it doesnt look good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I do not believe this is the case. WKYC does NOT do their news broadcast in HD, unless this is something new & I have not heard. Their SD broadcast of the news is however, very clear & as good as SD gets. Their digital studio provides one of the best quality pictures, so I'm sure this adds to the confusion. Anyway, it's not HD.


-Todd


----------



## [email protected]

Hey Guys!


I just recently did a rescan of HD channels with my MyHD Card and found 17.1-.3 . Any one have an idea where these came from???


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chuck Coughlin_
> *Hey Guys!
> 
> 
> I just recently did a rescan of HD channels with my MyHD Card and found 17.1-.3 . Any one have an idea where these came from???*




Channel 17 WDLI in Canton. Religious.


----------



## hoops10

TV21: I know you are associated with WFMJ 21, but have you heard at all when WKBN is going digital? I have sent numerous emails but got no response. Thanks.


----------



## handsworth

Last Tues. (1/20), Scientific Atlanta had a firmware upgrade and for new Adelphia HDTV subscribers and old ones that are still having problems be sure to setup your TV using the new setup wizard. Follow the below instructions to complete it.


1. Power off the STB but leave the TV on


2. Press the info and guide buttons simultaneously.


3. Follow instructions until you get to easy/advanced settings.


4.Use advanced settings.


(Save all formats that your tv recognizes. By pressing the "b" button you will skip to the next format)If your tv "Flickers" it means your TV cant transmit the signal.


5. Exit to black screen (your tv is off remember)


6. Turn on tv and press settings button 2 times(general settings)


7. Go to picture format and set for "pass thru".


8. Press exit and then settings button once(quick settings)


9. Go to picture size and set to normal.


This will be default settings for your particular Tv and pictures will adjust automatically with format size displayed. Go to SA web site for more detailed specs


OBTW CinamaxHD and StarzHD in Feb. Still working on CBS


----------



## roblake

handsworth -


Thanks, but this algorithm doesn't compute! TV is ON in Step 1, yet you say TV is OFF in Step 5.


Will CinamaxHD and StarzHD cost extra $$$ ?


----------



## jtscherne

Obviously a typo. The TV should be on the entire time and the cable box should be off the entire time. Thanks for posting this information. I noticed the new choices by accident.


Anyone want to define what "upconvert 1" and "upconvert 2" mean, since those are two other choices given in the settings menu?



Also, I assume that if you already subscribe to the Cinemax and Starz packages on regular digital you will get the HD stations, since that's the way it works for HBO and Showtime.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by roblake_
> *handsworth -
> 
> 
> Thanks, but this algorithm doesn't compute! TV is ON in Step 1, yet you say TV is OFF in Step 5.
> 
> 
> Will CinamaxHD and StarzHD cost extra $$$ ?*


----------



## Shark73

Thanks for the update handsworth! I haven't seen the extra options on the STB, but will need to look over them tonight.


As jtscherne stated, you will get Cinemax & Starz if you pay for the SD channels.


----------



## jtscherne

I first noticed that things had changed when I changed stations from an HD station to a standard station and saw that the resolution is now briefly shown in the lower right corner of the screen (i.e., 1080i to 480i).


----------



## Shark73

I may need to reset the box, because I didn't see that last night. Thanks for the info.


----------



## wfwiles

I was going to watch Las Vegas last night in HD but as soon as it came on WKYC HD went dead. However before it was to come on the commercials showed a lot of pixelation on the sharp edges on Comcast cable HD. Almost like not enough bandwidth. I Haven't watched HD on the cable yet so will have to watch and see if this is always there. The HD signal was dead on OTA also. It would be nice to get some decent reliable HD in Cleveland. The awards picture last night was terrible on the HD channel and was terrible on the cable. I wound up watching it on the OTA analog station


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *I was going to watch Las Vegas last night in HD but as soon as it came on WKYC HD went dead... It would be nice to get some decent reliable HD in Cleveland...(*




I believe it was a network problem since my feed did the same thing.


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

Why are there so many problems with local HD signals? Shouldn't there be complaints files with the FCC? If the channels are advertising how they broadcast in glorious digital and the consumer spends good money to upgrade isn't that deception? What gives here???


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Last Tues. (1/20), Scientific Atlanta had a firmware upgrade and for new Adelphia HDTV subscribers and old ones that are still having problems be sure to setup your TV using the new setup wizard. Follow the below instructions to complete it.
> 
> *



Works great! Good catch. MUCH better to not have to switch from 480i to 1080i in the menu every time. If you've already setup the wizard, you can probably go straight to step 6 & set to pass-through. The new wizard looks better by the way. I checked that out 1st.


-Todd


----------



## VSTAR

Who here is from the East side near Painesville ? I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic? I want to get an antenna up for the Super Bowl however due to the crappy weather have not had a chance to get one up outside.


What kind of reception can I expect ? If any ?


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by VSTAR_
> *I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic*



My experience is that I can NOT receive the VHF channels from my attic antenna.


If it's temporary, why not just try it indoors. Then you can twist it around. I have to point my outdoor at 260 degrees in order to get CBS, whereas everything us supposed to be at 230 degrees.


Your guests will be tolerant if you can get them high-def super bowl.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by VSTAR_
> *Who here is from the East side near Painesville ? I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic? I want to get an antenna up for the Super Bowl however due to the crappy weather have not had a chance to get one up outside.
> 
> 
> What kind of reception can I expect ? If any ?*



You could try it but if it doesn't work rig up something temporary for the super bowl. Possibly strap the antenna mast to a ladder against the side of the house. If there isn't a wind storm it should work. Anything to get the superbowl in HD. Maybe we will be lucky and the station will actually switch on the HD feed


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by VSTAR_
> *Who here is from the East side near Painesville ? I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic? I want to get an antenna up for the Super Bowl however due to the crappy weather have not had a chance to get one up outside.
> 
> 
> What kind of reception can I expect ? If any ?*



VSTAR -


I've been trying various tricks to get OTA without a regular antenna. Tried a set-top and tried an indoor small multi-element. Neither worked either well or consistently.


Then I took a single-wire F connector (no shield wire) that was laying around from my FM receiver and tied it to: Leaded glass window frame; radiator cover; halogen floor lamp; etc. Didn't actually connect the wire, just DuckTaped the end of it. The halogen floor lamp worked best. Will be trying some other inanimate objects around the living room before Sunday's game ...


With the floor lamp, when I get signal dropout, I can often restore the signal just by raising my hand from where I'm sitting 12' away.


----------



## VSTAR

Thanks guys. I think if worst case scenario I put the antenna outside on my deck I might get something. I was hoping to get up on the roof this week but with this latest storm there is no way.


----------



## techweb

This information, extracted from FCC engineering data bases, may give you some idea as to why some stations are difficult to receive:


DTV City Call ERP (kW) Analog chan

30 AKRON WBNX-TV 1000.000 55

50 AKRON WEAO 180.000 49

59 AKRON WVPX 630.000 23

39 CANTON WDLI 200.000 17

47 CANTON WOAC 1000.000 67

47 CANTON WOAC 17.300

2 CLEVELAND WKYC-TV 8.000 3

15 CLEVELAND WEWS-TV 870.000 5

26 CLEVELAND WVIZ 100.000 25

31 CLEVELAND WJW 625.000 8

34 CLEVELAND WQHS-TV 525.000 61

28 LORAIN WUAB 200.000 43

12 MANSFIELD WMFD-TV 4.800 68

10 SHAKER HEIGHTS WOIO 3.500 19

20 YOUNGSTOWN WFMJ-TV 460.000 21

20 YOUNGSTOWN WFMJ-TV 200.000

36 YOUNGSTOWN WYTV 48.800 33

36 YOUNGSTOWN WYTV 50.000

41 YOUNGSTOWN WKBN-TV 700.000 27


----------



## VSTAR

Well isn't that just great. WOIO is 3.500(kW). How in the **** is anybody more than 15 miles out going to pick that signal up? So much for Super Sunday.


----------



## ParsonsBri

I know I have been on a WKYC rant lately, but let me see if I get this straight. WOIO is at 3.5kw and I get that about 80% approximately 25 miles away. WKYC is at 8.0kw and I almost never, ever get a signal that I can hold, even through adelphia. For those of us laymen, what gives? There must be some simple explanation.


----------



## fpo701

Even better:

why is WBNX 1 megawatt? Last time I checked titantv, they were still waiting for a permit. Besides, the WB doesn't even have hardly any HD content.


On another local note, perhaps you guys can help me. I'll soon take the dive into HD. Right now, I'm just a digital TWC customer. TWC is slowly adding the digitial locals. Right now, I have 3 (.1, .2, and .3), 5, 8, 45, 49. I get audio only on all but 3.2 and 3.3, as I do not yet have the HD terminal. I've got a Denon AVR-2801 receiver. The only time it displays DOLBY DIGITAL is when it detects a true 5.1 audio source. If it is DD but not 5.1 (say 4.0, for example), it simply shows PRO LOGIC.


I guess that is enough for my question. Over in the HD Programmig Forum, people were talking about A Bug's Life and Armagedon being in 5.1 when aired on ABC. When I goto that WEWS during those shows, I was seeing PRO LOGIC. Why am I not seeing a true 5.1 sound signal? Is it because WEWS can't/didn't do 5.1? Is it because TWC did something to the signal? Is it simply because I don't have the HD box?


Frank


----------



## Shark73

Frank,


None of the Cleveland stations are setup to do 5.1. That's why you did't have it for the movies.



Jim


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by VSTAR_
> *Well isn't that just great. WOIO is 3.500(kW). How in the **** is anybody more than 15 miles out going to pick that signal up? So much for Super Sunday.*



For one thing, the general rule-of thumb between DTV and analog stations is that digital requires only about 10% of the power of analog stations for equivalent coverage (in theory at least). Also, stations in the VHF band require less power than UHF. As I recall, low VHF band analog stations (channels 2-6) can have a maximum visual ERP of 100kW, high VHF band (7-13) a max of 316kW, and UHF a max of 1MW (within 60 miles of Canada) or 5MW (more than 60 miles from Canada).


----------



## fpo701

Thanks, Jim. Makes sense now. Are any planning 5.1 in the near future?


BTW, TWC Akron just added HDNet and HDNet Movies this morning.


----------



## Shark73

As far as we know not a single station has plans to offer 5.1 anytime soon.


Good to hear that you have HDNet now. They have some good HD programming. And almost everything should be in 5.1.


Enjoy!


Jim


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *Even better:
> 
> why is WBNX 1 megawatt? Last time I checked titantv, they were still waiting for a permit. Besides, the WB doesn't even have hardly any HD content.
> *



The FCC list I posted includes all stations that have a valid construction permit, not necessarily those that are on the air, or even started construction for that matter.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by techweb_
> *The FCC list I posted includes all stations that have a valid construction permit, not necessarily those that are on the air, or even started construction for that matter.*



Is it also true that the numbers you posted are what was alloted to the station? They don't have to transmit at the full power amount.


WOIO states that they are at full power, based on an email from the station manager.


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by techweb_
> *As I recall, low VHF band analog stations (channels 2-6) can have a maximum visual ERP of 100kW, high VHF band (7-13) a max of 316kW, and UHF a max of 1MW (within 60 miles of Canada) or 5MW (more than 60 miles from Canada).*



Nope. 1 MW is tops for ALL stations in UHF.


This is average power as opposed to peak power used in analog NTSC. The difference is between 4-6 db, and depending on who you talk to, 8-10 db. So a 1 MW DTV station would be able to do 5 MW analog. So if there _were_ a 5 MW DTV station would equate to a 10 MW analog station. That transmitter site would require its own substation.







(Not really, but it's still a lot of power). The DTV transmitter has to be sized for the peak power of DTV so you have some headroom. Even a 1 MW DTV station has a good sized transmitter with good sized power consumption.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *Nope. 1 MW is tops for ALL stations in UHF.
> 
> *



The following ERPs are taken from the FCC engineering data base dated November 2003:


Chan City Call ERP (kW)


19 SHAKER WOIO 3720.000

23 AKRON WVPX 5000.000

25 CLEVE WVIZ 2140.000

43 LORAIN WUAB 4680.000

55 AKRON WBNX-TV 5000.000

61 CLEVE WQHS-TV 2000.000


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by techweb_
> *The following ERPs are taken from the FCC engineering data base dated November 2003:
> 
> 
> Chan City Call ERP (kW)
> 
> 
> 19 SHAKER WOIO 3720.000
> 
> 23 AKRON WVPX 5000.000
> 
> 25 CLEVE WVIZ 2140.000
> 
> 43 LORAIN WUAB 4680.000
> 
> 55 AKRON WBNX-TV 5000.000
> 
> 61 CLEVE WQHS-TV 2000.000*




Perhaps I misunderstood your statement. It's the digitals that are limited to 1 MW. These are all analogs. My apologies.


----------



## Shark73

Is anyone with DirecTv hoping that we get the new CBS-HD feed tomorrow?


----------



## VSTAR

Well I tried the Terk TV 55 antenna and could not receive any VHF signal. I am going to put up an antenna outside this weekend and with my schedule more than likely it will be on Sunday morning. Hope I get lucky and everything works out and comes in for the game.


----------



## hoops10

VStar: Good luck getting an antenna up this weekend with the weather we have been having. I still need to get my CM 9521a installed but with all the ice and snow, so far haven't had a chance.


----------



## danton3

what are our chances...

im hoping - but not likely


----------



## VSTAR

Say what you want I will get that antenna up Sunday. I have one of my installers from our store coming over Sunday morning. We are going to try and get it up on the roof. Worst case scenario we are going to mount the tripod to my deck in the back yard.


I need to get CBS I have twenty people coming over. I sure hope CBS Cleveland dose not screw up the broadcast.


----------



## hoops10

I don't believe it. My old rotor I have on there now broke free of the ice that had it. I am now able to pull in KDKA in Pittsburgh and that means CBS which means SUPER BOWL!! I just hope that it holds true.


Best of luck to you, I hope it works for you.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Looks like I may luck out after all. The press release includes all those who receive "distant network signals". I am one og the lucky ones who was grandfathered in as I have had them since 95. I will let you know If channel 80 actually works tomorrow. We will see.



DIRECTV Delivers CBS HDTV Programming in Time for Super Bowl XXXVIII Broadcast

Local Channel and HD Package Subscribers have access to CBS HDTV via a Single Satellite Dish



El Segundo, CA Jan 26, 2004


WHAT: DIRECTV, Inc., provider of the nation's leading digital multichannel television service, today announced it will begin offering CBS high-definition television (HDTV) programming to its eligible customers on Friday, Jan. 30, in 17 markets where CBS owns and operates stations and nationwide for subscribers to CBS distant network signals.


Eligible customers who have the appropriate HD receiving equipment and subscribe to DIRECTV programming packages that include local channels, or the DIRECTV HD package, or receive CBS distant network signals, will have access to CBS HDTV programming that includes the Feb. 1 CBS presentation of Super Bowl XXXVIII and primetime hits like "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" and "Everybody Loves Raymond." Eligible DIRECTV customers will receive the live feed from (WCBS in New York) or (KCBS in Los Angeles) as part of their eligible programming package.


DIRECTV is the only digital satellite service offering CBS HDTV via a single dish and as an option for customers who may only subscribe to a high-definition channel package.


DIRECTV is supporting the addition of CBS HDTV to its high-definition programming lineup in (Market) with local advertising and promotions.


WHEN: Live broadcast begins Jan. 30, 2004





WHERE: DIRECTV Channel 80 (WCBS for customers in Eastern or Central time zones); or Channel 81 (KCBS for Pacific or Mountain time zones)


----------



## danton3

im not sure what you mean PArSONS... ive had d* for 5 years-- will i have any luck?? im down in munroe falls...


----------



## Shark73

He has the distant network feeds and anyone with those will get the CBS-HD feed.


If anyone else got CBS, please post.


THanks,


Jim


----------



## SteveC

I don't believe WOIO is an O&O so no one will get it without a waiver which I hear they never give.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by danton3_
> *im not sure what you mean PArSONS... ive had d* for 5 years-- will i have any luck?? im down in munroe falls...*



Enter your address into:

http://directvdnseligibility.decisio...dressEntry.asp 


If you don't show up getting a CBS level A or B signal, then you're in.


----------



## danton3

ok - thanks parson

doesnt look like ill be getting it ... sux


----------



## ParsonsBri

Danton3, Here is what I mean:

Several years ago when D* launched the network feeds, the only ones available were ABC, NBC and CBS from LA and NY. I lived in NJ at the time and worked for Sony with the TV group and was eligible to receive them. In 95 I moved to Chicago and then last year back here to Cleveland. D* indicated to me after both moves that I am "grandfathered in" on the distant network feeds. I will have them until I cancel them, even If I can get the locals. Lucky me I guess.


So, I checked this morning and sure enough CBSE on 80 and CBSW on 81. Looks like I am good to go for my Super bowl party.


Ironically, CBS is the best signal I get of the locals. I think it stinks that we all cant get the feeds. They should at least grant waivers until the signal improves locally.


----------



## Shark73

WOIO refuses to give waivers. I spoke with the station manager and he said that it was corporate policy to not give out waivers.


----------



## SteveC

Does anybody have any inside information as to why Time Warner Cable has not added WOIO-DT to their lineup of local digital channels? It has been over a year since they have begun carrying the digital locals. There must be some kind of major sticking point(money?) that is holding this up. Are ANY cable companies in NEO carrying WOIO's digital feed? Calling or sending emails to TWC is pointless. They will only tell you they are continuing to add channels, etc, etc, with no real information as to when or what the hold up is. Any info would be appreciated.

Steve


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

My Antenna installer just informed me that WOIO installed the wrong digital transmitter and have spent the past year and a half trying to make it work properly. Perhaps that might be one reason...


----------



## inertia64

Hi everyone! (says the newbie)


It looks like Fox is the only O&O in Cleveland


ABC - WEWS is owned by Scripps Howard

CBS - WOIO is owned by Raycom Media

NBC - WKYC is owned by Gannett


BTW - I live in Solon and hooked up my Samsung 160 to my old roof antennas and get all locals fine (80% at least). Glad I never got rid of them.


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Does anybody have any inside information as to why Time Warner Cable has not added WOIO-DT to their lineup of local digital channels?*



Steve,

You just have to know the right people. I have been told by someone very high up that they were supposed to be there by the SuperBowl. Both WOIO and WUAB are owned by Viacomm. They will be added together.


Funny thing is, I've talked with him this week about the audio problems on 624-640, but didn't ask about 19/43. I've got a message off to him now and will post his response.


Frank


----------



## SteveC

Frank,

Thanks for the update. Do you know what the holdup has been? Why has it taken so long?

Steve


----------



## danton3

i use to get CBS HD with my terk55- now i dont get it all - i get ABC AND FOX at good strenghts.... any new good hd antenna out there.... everyone told me not to get the terk55 but ive definately gotten my moneys worth for the past year and a half...


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I'm curious to ask you guys, I dont watch CBS much, their programming isnt really that good. Only thing I watch on CBS is sports. How has WOIO been doing the last few days? Audio problems? forget to throw the switch? Dropouts? Anyone been watching?


----------



## SteveC

It was fine last night. I really don't have any problems picking it up. I've got a pretty good Winegard antenna with a rotor on the roof. Even when their signal strength is going up and down like a yo-yo, I'm usually still able to hold a lock with just a couple dropouts now and them. A friend of mine who lives down in N. Canton has an antenna in his attic. He told me he is able to get two digital channels. Before he told me which ones I thought it would probably be WJW(31) and WEWS(15). I was right on one, WJW. Believe it or not the other was WOIO. I could not understand how he could get WOIO and not WEWS. He is looking forward to watching the Super Bowl in HD.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *I'm curious to ask you guys, I dont watch CBS much, their programming isnt really that good. Only thing I watch on CBS is sports. How has WOIO been doing the last few days? Audio problems? forget to throw the switch? Dropouts? Anyone been watching?*



Well considering that CSI, CSI Miami, Cold Case & Without a Trace are all top 15 shows, I'd say they have some good programming. They also have 3 others in the top 20. I enjoy all three of those shows quite a bit. Plus, the CSI shows are the best looking HD network shows out there.


It's all opinion, but to me, CBS is the most important HD channel.



-Todd


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Todd yea they have good programming.


But I'm only 20 years old. I watch sports. My mom watches CBS all the time. Now I'm not saying your old cuz you watch CBS... actually that is what I am saying.


Just Joking


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Todd yea they have good programming.
> 
> 
> But I'm only 20 years old. I watch sports. My mom watches CBS all the time. Now I'm not saying your old cuz you watch CBS... actually that is what I am saying.
> 
> 
> Just Joking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



No, I am old. HA! 36 feels older & older!










At any rate, if I was 20, I probably wouldn't be watching CBS drama shows either! As for HD, the CSI shows (especially Miami) look just amazing though. CBS Football looks the best as well. It's just too bad our WOIO has so many problems. The last few weeks the signal has stayed pretty steady though.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

The article below discusses some of the cable company issues with broadcasting local HDTV stations.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/...ss/7834474.htm


----------



## VSTAR

Last night I tried to get signal with a chanel master antenna. I went outside and tired to point it in the direction of the CBS transmiter. I got ABC FOX and UPN but not one bit of the CBS signal. What can I do ? I did have a pre amp connected and a deep fringe antenna.

I guess I am just SOL. I find it hard to believe that Painesville Twp. Is to far out.


----------



## wfwiles

You are only about 10 miles further than I am from the antenna so you should be able to get it. How high was the antenna and did you have a clear path in front of the antenna. Also did you try turning the antenna a little more west than the other antennas. Try to get it up a little, possible strap it to a ladder against the side of the house as a temporary install. Weather isn't suppose to be too bad until Monday.....


----------



## VSTAR

Three big prooblems that I can see. I live in a valley somewhat and I did not get the antenna up over 10ft also I have a heavily wooded back yard.

I did turn the antenna all directions and did not get even a blip of CBS signal.


I am at a loss I guess I just have to live with waiting until next year when the game is on fox. I can pick that up with a coat hanger.


----------



## roblake

VSTAR -


Have you considered a pure vertical antenna put way up in one of your trees? I Googled stuff on VHS antenna design and found the 1/4 wavelength for Channel 10 (193 MHz) is about 14". (14.52"). Two pieces of wire with an insulator between -o- and the lead-in tied center to one, shield to the other, then hoisted up a tree (or flagpole), just MIGHT give you el cheapo dipole. Just use nylon line or whatever to string it up on one end of the dipole. Maybe you will need 1/2 wave sections ... I've forgotten!


I'm considering this as an alternative, but may just settle for SD on the 60XBR --- it's ALMOST as good as HD, IMHO.


----------



## VSTAR

I have considered lots of things. My wife on the other hand thinks I am certifiably nuts. I also will more than likely settle on the SD signal.



After a half dozen Coronas the picture will look fine.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

why do women think its nuts to try all this for HD, but they dont think it is nuts to own 60+ pairs of shoes?


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Frank,
> 
> Thanks for the update. Do you know what the holdup has been? Why has it taken so long?
> 
> Steve*



Steve, over at the Programming forum here, there's a thread about TWC and CBS. Someone local says he got an email from TWC Northeast Ohio that indicated CBS would be added at 12:01 AM SUNDAY!!! Yet, I called sales this morning to get the scoop. I was told they were not adding any more channels this weekend. Way to get the word out to the sales crew!!!


If I had known they were adding it, I would have gotten the HD box for the game. Looks like I'm SOL.


[edit]

Just called TWC customer service. He said NO CBS. Told the guy what I read on that other thread. He double checked with someone. Yes CBS. That was the first time he heard it. Nice communication guys.


I'm wondering if they kept it quiet to keep down the flood of new installs. ???

[/edit]


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Are ANY cable companies in NEO carrying WOIO's digital feed?*



Wide Open West carries WOIO-DT - I have had it in Shaker Hts for a couple months now.


-- Paul


----------



## ZManCartFan

What, no Superbowl gripes? I figured this thread would be hopping after last night.


I didn't get to watch much of the game, but I was impressed that WOIO managed to carry the entire pre-game and game itself in HD. I did notice a few dropouts including at least two times when the box gave me a "no signal" for about a minute. But the signal strength was consistently good.


All-in-all, not too bad.


Oh yeah, that reminds me. VSTAR - nobody else on this thread has confirmed it to me that it happens to others, but here in Medina WOIO is at 0% strength much of the day (and some nights). Make sure you're testing your antenna at a time when you know that WOIO is broadcasting an HD signal.


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

Janets Ta Ta was nice to see in HD!


----------



## VSTAR

I did try the antenna at night when they were broadcasting the signal. I did not receive any signal. I am going to wait until it warms up and I can really get out on the roof and try again.


----------



## VSTAR

Just got off the phone with Adlephia. Tell me how screwed up this is. The woman I spoke to stated that the HD system and hardware is in place however their computer system cannot accept the billing codes for the boxes and HD stations. Are you kidding me. They can't enter the billing codes so no HD for you right now. They are supposed to get a new computer in May and she said that right now they are not sure if it will accept the new system as well.


If you live in Cleveland or are billed out of Cleveland such as Chardon your OK. However the rest of us in lake county are screwed. We should let Aldelphia how unacceptable this is.


----------



## Dweezilz

Speaking of Adelphia, the non-HD DVR came out today & is available. According to the woman I spoke to, it's the same price as the digital box is for 2 months, and then there is a DVR fee of about $5.50 bringing the total to $11.95. So basically you don't pay more for the box above what the digital box costs. I hope she's right & that there isn't an addition charge. The HD box will be available in the next 2-4 months from what they told me.


-Todd


update - In typical Adelphia fashion, my buddy stopped by & picked his DVR box up & they told him it was $14.95 total per month, not $11.95. The only think I can think of is that they charge more for your 1st box & he has only one so that might be why they told me $11.95 since it's my 2nd box. Either that or someone is wrong.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

Since I went on the air last July I have received a few emails from people in the Cleveland/Akron/Canton area who noticed us. I'm just wondering if there's anyone in those areas that watch us. If you get the chance PM me with your location.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Why does WKYC split their signal in three channels? I guess I can see the weather radar display being useful, but I simply have no clue as to why channel 3-2 exists. Can anyone enlighten me?


----------



## wfwiles

I believe it is for people have 4:3 screens and want a full screen. I think it is very considerate of them since my HDTV is 4:3.


----------



## KurlonT

I had WOIO HD CBS (ch.541) on for the game from TWC but

as of today the channel is no longer listed on the guide.

Also, they added WNEO HD PBS (ch.549) but nothing on

the website is listed for PBS. Even more strange is they

listed WYTV HD ABC (ch.533) but again nothing is listed

on the guide!


Geesh...talk about confused...lol!


On a down note they will be charging $6.95 mo.

for InHD 1&2 and HDNet, HDNetMovies...bummer.


----------



## fpo701

Permission was gotten from CBS by TWC nation-wide to carry the HD feeds for 24 hours during the SuperBowl. After that period, any TWC affiliate that did not have an existing CBS feed was to drop their transmission.


As for the channel listings on the website, they are color coded. Notice that color coding on the local channels is orange. There's a set of notes below that channel list that explains each color.


For orange:

Available at no cost to Digital customers, only in areas that also carry the regular broadcast station


Basically, if you don't get the analog feed of WYTV, you are not getting the digital.


For those with a little curiosity, the channel listing he is refering to is here 


Frank


----------



## ParsonsBri

We had a great super bowl party with most of the guests raving about the picture. I am one of the lucky ones who got the national HD feed from CBS. We watched WOIO however because the picture was better. I fear that the D* offering was slightly compressed. All in all a nice job by CBS. Made for a nice party.


Just wondering, anyone check to see if Adelphia got the HD CBS feed. There was a rumor in another thread that it was going to happen in Pittsburgh. I read an article that Adephia's HD expenditures were more about staying within budget constraints. As in, they would like to expand quicker, but not at the risk of the bottom line. I dont know why someone just doesnt buy Adelphia. I have lived in 5 different markets as an adult and adelphia is by far and away the worst cable company I have ever encountered.


Anyway, whats next? March Madness in hd? Masters? NBA?


----------



## roblake

Well, Adelphia in Cleveland Heights showed no sign of having the "Two more HD channels at the end of January" that the installer mentioned in December. I even tried rebooting the STB. I'll stop by tomorrow at the Severance office and see if anyone knows from HD yet.


----------



## Shark73

Cinemax and Starz will be on Adelphia sometime this month.


----------



## jtscherne

NBC will be showing the Daytona 500 in HD on Sunday, February 15th.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *
> 
> Anyway, whats next? March Madness in hd? Masters? NBA?*


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

December 14th, NBC will show the Busch race at Daytona.


----------



## Shark73

Has anyone heard if Adelphia has plans to add INHD & INHD2 to their channel lineup?


----------



## KurlonT

Thanks Frank,

I was thinking the guide was not being updated.

So hopefully CBS (WOIO) will be a permanent addition

some time soon. I see what your talking about on

the WYTV feed but shouldn't PBS be on there as well?


Overall the feed from WOIO was really nice for the game

to bad it was only a teaser...


----------



## panjj

I picked up the Sci. Atlanta DVR yesterday. If you have a "regular" box (non HD) you exchange and just use the new DVR. If you have the HD box you are to use both. I though I could just hook to coax as a loop from the HD to the DVR. However, the coax is not a "pass through" but only sends the signal on what is tuned on the HD box--make sense?


Does this mean the only way I can use both boxes is to get a splitter? I am a little worried about signal loss. Thanks for any info.


----------



## ccchaney

WOIO HD audio problems....


I have had problems getting decent audio from 19-1 since the middle of December. This occurs only with the HD program broadcasts. The sound is "tinny" and echoes (as if listening to a cheap old transistor radio from the '60's in a large ceramic-tiled room). Sometimes the audio is fine but most of the time it is awful. The other OTA HD is fine! (DirecTv HD audio is also fine.) It happens only with 19-1! From time to time, it is fine but that isn't often.


I use a roof mounted antenna with a clear "line-of-site" to the broadcast tower less than 8 miles away.


Very aggravating as it happens ONLY with the HD programming on 19-1!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by panjj_
> *I picked up the Sci. Atlanta DVR yesterday. If you have a "regular" box (non HD) you exchange and just use the new DVR. If you have the HD box you are to use both. I though I could just hook to coax as a loop from the HD to the DVR. However, the coax is not a "pass through" but only sends the signal on what is tuned on the HD box--make sense?
> 
> 
> Does this mean the only way I can use both boxes is to get a splitter? I am a little worried about signal loss. Thanks for any info.*



Yes you'll need a splitter. To ensure no signal loss, get a very high end splitter. I've found the Monster TGHZ-2RF 2-Way 2-Gigahertz Low Loss RF Splitter to be very nice & works well in situations where signal strength is an issue. They cost about $20.


The HD version of that DVR is reported to be coming in the next 2-4 months.


-Todd


----------



## intermod

!!!ENHANCED PROPAGATION!!! 5-Feb-04 13:23 EST.


I have never been impressed with the sensitivity of my F38310 with my attic mounted Channel master 77" antenna, but right now I have picked up 5 "new ones".

WFMJ 21 YTOWN 59.2 MILES

WNWO 24 TOL 87.5 MILES

WKBN 27 YTOWN 59.5 MILES

WAOH-LP 29 AKRON 26.2 MILES


With snow finally melted off the roof and perhaps some ducting

from this weather front to the south it looks like a good day to let the set auto-program.


I have had NO success with digital stations.


Dan


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *...but right now I have picked up 5 "new ones".
> *



I have been getting Detroit the past few days. HD station 4-1,4-2 (45). This is supposed to be a summertime phenomenon.


----------



## Ben Music

Hi Comcast Group,


Just a heads up for Cleveland Comcast HDTV

subscribers. My Headend Tech at Comcast told me today that he hopes to have ABCHD and CBSHD up and running by the end of March. Just thought you would like to know.


Most of you already know that the firmware upgrade 7.07 was installed this week. This should activate DVI and 1394 Firewire ports.


Ben Music

Beta Tester


----------



## ParsonsBri

Hi again.


Just a quick note. I just had Adelphia out to help me figure out the deal with WKYC dropouts. Actually the technician was quite knowledgeable. After he figured out that I had a clue, he showed me how do get to the diagnostic mode to check signal strength. It turns out that the signal was right at the -20db threshold and fluctuating. We found a loose connector on the back of the wall plate and that got us up to -16db. Still not great, but well within acceptable. So now it works ok.


However, his visit did raise a few questions:

The cable runs in this house were all RG59 when built. He stated that was fine. I am wondering if installing quad shielded RG6 would improve on the

-16db loss. One way or another, I would like to find a way to minimize the loss.


I asked about additional channels. He said what we already know about Cinemax and StarZ (supposed to be soon). He said that it was his understanding that they are working hard on CBS, but $$ are a factor.

He had no other information.


He also stated that the HD DVR is being supported now and if a customer wanted to purchase the Scientific Atlanta now, it would work fine. It will be available in March to lease, but if one could buy it now, you are good to go. I don't know If I would make that investment. I wonder if you could even buy one.


Interesting.


----------



## Dweezilz

OK, so when are you going to tell us how to get into the diagnostics of the Adelphia box? HA!










-Todd


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *OK, so when are you going to tell us how to get into the diagnostics of the Adelphia box? HA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Todd*



If the computer weren't so far from the TV, I'd do better at this. You have to press and hold two of the buttons on the STB. As I recall, one was at like 2:00 - 3:00. Sorry, but it's a start. There was a VERY elaborate menu, with frequencies etc. and something like Page 1 of 16 ...


----------



## SKoprowski

Anyone from the Canton area? My friend brought his HDTV receiver over and we barely got any stations in at all. We got a Youngstown station and 3 religious stations on channel 17. All we used was an indoor antenna. I am wondering if using a better antenna will change anything, but I spoke with a sales rep at Circuit City and he told me Canton is known for not getting good reception and I may have no luck at all with HDTV. Any thoughts?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## Dweezilz

what type of antenna are you using?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *OK, so when are you going to tell us how to get into the diagnostics of the Adelphia box? HA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



To get into diagnostics screens:

1. Press and hold the Enter/Select button (the button in the middle of the arrow buttons) on the box (on the box, not the remote)

2. After about 5 seconds the mail light will come on

3. Let go of the Enter button

4. Press the Info button (again, on the box, not the remote)

5. A diagnostic screen will come on

6. Use the volume keys on the front of the box to scroll through the 18 pages of information.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *what type of antenna are you using?*




Hi,


I'm using a channel master 3016. I just updated my profile to indicate that.


Dan


----------



## Dweezilz

Has anyone had their Adelphia box reset the video format from Pass-Thru back to fixed on it's own? Today is the 3rd time that I've come home from work & the box has reset back to fixed & won't auto switch. I also noticed that the settings in the first settings menu for 480i or 1080i etc... is no longer there. The only category is the one that has Zoom / Normal. When I hit settings again & then set it to Pass-Thru, it auto switches again for a period of time. I ran through the wizard again & made sure I have it set to 480i & 1080i only, but the option to manually switch has not returned. I wonder if this box is defective?


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

No, my box reset today too. It may be the main office doing something.


(Like adding new channels, don't we wish!







)


----------



## oachalon

hey ben i noticed today that my box has got the 7.07 firmware. Too bad i dont have a dvi tv. That will be awesome if we could get abc and cbs by the end of march.


----------



## ParsonsBri

I forgot to mention yesterday that the Adelphia dude said that the DVI ports should be working on all the boxes now and that they were activated with the most recent firmware upgrade. I dont know yet which version, but I am going to check and see.


As a follow up to the Sci Atl Exlorer 8000 HD (HD box w/DVR). It does not look like there is anyplace to buy one as a consumer. The fact that Adelphia will support one purchased privately is amzing to me.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually in their last price structure change, they indicated that consumers could get a discount for providing a regular digital box (non-HD). It's on the same level as the discount they give if you have your own cable modem. The problem obviously is that the digital boxes are much more expensive!


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Anyone else not getting anything on WKYC?


Thanks,

Fred


----------



## jtscherne

I'm getting it through Adelphia.


----------



## Shark73

WKYC remapped last night to 2-1 from 3-1 on my Zenith 520. I have no signal on 3-1 now but the 2-1 channel is coming in fine.


----------



## ccchaney

Noted the same thing last night when 3-1 suddenly had no signal. All the digital signals were coming in on 2-1, etc.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

For most of the month of January, I was getting a pretty good signal from channel 19. Indeed, the Superbowl last weekend came in fine from beginning to end. But this week when I tried to watch some of the CBS shows, I found a weak signal that would drop out completely for lengthy periods. And then last night when I tried it, I got nothing at all - it was as if they weren't even on the air.


I wonder if 19 dropped back to a lower power level once they'd finished with the Superbowl broadcast. Anyone know anything about it? Has anyone else noticed the weaker signal this past week?


----------



## hoops10

I have noticed that too, but with KDKA out of Pittsburgh. I wonder if they too, have dropped the level of their power. If that is the case, this is totally unacceptable.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Well, I'm going to try to watch the Grammy broadcast tonight on CBS. We'll see what happens.


----------



## RexEctor

Not to change the subject here but I'm looking for some info/advice.


I'm up the lake from Cleveland (East). I haven't gone HD yet but expect to REAL soon. Currently, I have Dish Network but am considering going to Adelphia Cable or Directv whichever.


Adelphia here says HD will be available in March/April with local stations. I have yet to see anything about DISH or Directv having HD locals. Anyone know if either will? ...and when?


I really don't want to go back to the old antenna/tower/rotor ---


BTW, Adelphia told me they will have a DVR receiver available and that HD locals will only be available in the evenings.(?!)


Living out here in the far 'burbs, we're always the last to get the "new stuff".


Thanks - lotsa good Northcoast stuff in this thread!


----------



## jtscherne

You should probably read some of the posts in this topic because we have talked about Adelphia a great deal. It first became available from them in the Cleveland area in late November.


As to the "evenings only" comment, that sounds like a clueless customer service representative. Most HD programs on local stations tend to be in the evenings, although their digital broadcasts are 24 hours a day. HBO and Showtime show HD films all the time.


Yes, they are about to offer DVRs for standard broadcasts, with an HD box promised later this year.


----------



## roblake

Adelphia just force fed the firmware upgrade to the SA 32xx HD set top box. This activates the DVI connector. The improvement in quality with DVI to the set (a Sony 60XBR950) is tangible. REALLY nice quality from HBO HD. I had been using component cables.


----------



## Oswald

"I am wondering if using a better antenna will change anything, but I spoke with a sales rep at Circuit City and he told me Canton is known for not getting good reception and I may have no luck at all with HDTV. Any thoughts?"




I live in North Canton and use a Terk-55 antenna mounted on my deck. I get all the Cleveland stations except WKYC (NBC). I get NBC out of Youngstown on WFMJ. These are Digital channels. Really good antenna for 100 bucks. I do have to rotate it for better reception on some channels....but it's not too bad for now. I'm not allowed to have an antenna mast or large antenna mounted to my chimney due to neighborhood covenants.


Once again...Ignorant CC or BB salesfolk without a clue.


Hope this helps.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Well, I'm going to try to watch the Grammy broadcast tonight on CBS. We'll see what happens.*



But they are seldom in HD. Are they suppose to be?


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, the Grammy Awards are supposed to be in HD.


----------



## ccchaney

No Grammy Awards Show in my house tonight. The opening number was absolutely awful. The audio, that is. Impossible. Even switching to the "just plain" stereo setting on the AV receiver was no help. This usually makes none musical shows bearable.


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

It's coming in ok for me. Audio dropouts are infrequent. Mono to surround and back to mono is what is bothering me.


----------



## ccchaney

Just switched back to take a look and the audio was not so bad. Don't know what has happened but ...


will watch now....


I don't know!!!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Oswald_
> *I'm not allowed to have an antenna mast or large antenna mounted to my chimney due to neighborhood covenants.*



FYI, there's a federal regulation that overrides any local municipality/HOA so-called "rules" regarding antenna installation. You have every right to install an antenna on your property to recieve OTA signals even if it's "ugly" to the neighbors.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html 


-- Paul


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Well, the Grammy broadcast is coming in flawlessly. I still wonder whether channel 19 is bumping the power up and down depending on whether they think they're going to have a sizeable audience. The Superbowl and Grammy shows have been great, but during the week in between I've gotten a marginal signal at best. I guess we'll see what happens this coming week.


----------



## rgrizza

I wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago..... hindsight is 20/20. Either way: I finally got a HDTV receiver, DirecTV HD package and (unfortunately) Terk TV44 antenna. Hooked everything up over the weekend and WOW is high definition unbelievable.


My one problem that i was hoping I could get some ideas on: I get every OTA station digital except WEWS (5-1 ABC) -- I get 0% signal strength (I'm in University Heights - just east of Cleveland). Am I screwed because of the crappy antenna for this station? All other stations get 70+% and come in great.


Any help appreciated for this HD rookie...


Rob


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rgrizza_
> *I wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago..... hindsight is 20/20. Either way: I finally got a HDTV receiver, DirecTV HD package and (unfortunately) Terk TV44 antenna. Hooked everything up over the weekend and WOW is high definition unbelievable.
> 
> 
> My one problem that i was hoping I could get some ideas on: I get every OTA station digital except WEWS (5-1 ABC) -- I get 0% signal strength (I'm in University Heights - just east of Cleveland). Am I screwed because of the crappy antenna for this station? All other stations get 70+% and come in great.
> 
> 
> Any help appreciated for this HD rookie...
> 
> 
> Rob*



You aren't that far from the antenna so I don't know why you only have problems with channel 5.1 Maybe try a set of rabbit ears or if you can move the terk antenna. About a year ago CH 5 upgraded their transmitter and I havn't had any problem receiving it since.


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rgrizza_
> *I wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago..... hindsight is 20/20. Either way: I finally got a HDTV receiver, DirecTV HD package and (unfortunately) Terk TV44 antenna. Hooked everything up over the weekend and WOW is high definition unbelievable.
> 
> 
> My one problem that i was hoping I could get some ideas on: I get every OTA station digital except WEWS (5-1 ABC) -- I get 0% signal strength (I'm in University Heights - just east of Cleveland). Am I screwed because of the crappy antenna for this station? All other stations get 70+% and come in great.
> 
> 
> Any help appreciated for this HD rookie...
> 
> 
> Rob*



I'm in Cleveland Hts., near Cedar-Fairmount. Get 5-1 as strong as any OTA (8 and either 19 or 43, I forget). Using an amplified set-top antenna. Have never gotten 3-1.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I still wonder whether channel 19 is bumping the power up and down depending on whether they think they're going to have a sizeable audience. The Superbowl and Grammy shows have been great, but during the week in between I've gotten a marginal signal at best. I guess we'll see what happens this coming week.*



And tonight tends to confirm my suspicions - when I tuned in for CSI, I got no signal at all. I checked again about 10 minutes later and found signal, but it kept breaking up and dying on me. I eventually gave up on it - it became unwatchable. Is anyone else having the same experience?


----------



## ParsonsBri

A simple observation for what it's worth:

Grammy Audio - I switched back and forth between the local feed and CBSE HD feed on D* and it seemed to me that the audion issues were network related as they were consistent between the two channels. So at least this time, not WOIO's fault in my opinion.


NBC- watched Las Vegas last night and the video is just not as good as CBS or even ABC programming. I dont know if that is an Adelphia issue or just a poor job by NBC.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *NBC- watched Las Vegas last night and the video is just not as good as CBS or even ABC programming. I dont know if that is an Adelphia issue or just a poor job by NBC.*




It was sent by NBC in SD.


----------



## vector99

I am new to HDTV. Last week, I finally got a Zenith HDV420 tuner.


One problem that I have is the volume on WKYC is approximately 5dB lower than the other channels. This is not a problem when I watch via the analog channels.


Does anyone have any ideas or noticed this?


----------



## gnalmij

rgrizza: I'm also in University Heights near John Carroll and also new to HDTV. After lurking here and elsewhere and consulting antennaweb.org, I tried a medium directional Channel master antenna in the attic (very inexpensive and off the shelf from Lowe's), without an amplifier, pointed toward Parma. After one directional adjustment to be able to bring in Fox, I can pick up all OTA Cleveland channels without a problem (completed install the day before the Super Bowl). I'd guess your Terk just isn't working for ABC, but that's odd given my experience and those of several others here that ABC has one of the better OTA signals.


ParsonsBri: I second your comments about NBC (2-1), and think it might be Adelphia. TV21CHIEF says it was sent SD last night, but my OTA PQ through my Samsung receiver viewing 2-1 still was much better than the Adelphia signal on 703 (or 3). I was switching back and forth last night and wondering whether my difference was in the connections (I'm using component from the Adelphia box and DVI from the OTA box) or the cable run to my home. I think the cable run from Adelphia is split sufficiently that I'm just not getting top quality. Now that I can compare SD OTA (WB, anyone?) with the same SD on Adelphia, the OTA is much, much better quality than what I get from Adelphia. I'll be moving to D* soon once the new HD D*Tivo is available, and keeping my antenna for the locals.


Lastly, thanks to all who have contributed here. I have learned a great deal from you all, and it made my install and set-up trouble free and, sort of, worry free.


----------



## Oswald




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *FYI, there's a federal regulation that overrides any local municipality/HOA so-called "rules" regarding antenna installation. You have every right to install an antenna on your property to recieve OTA signals even if it's "ugly" to the neighbors.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



Thanks for the information. You guys are great!


----------



## rgrizza

gnalmij, you're right around the corner from me! I can almost throw a rock and hit JCU -- small world.


I think I'll try moving the antenna a little (it's dish-mounted, so I can only rotate it a few inches around the dish). If that doesn't work, maybe I'll give a channel master antenna a shot. At least I have 8 months to get ABC working before Monday Night Football starts up again











I tried an inline amplifier (suggested by terk) and it must have been broken because I didn't get a single HD OTA station with it installed... The satellite channels still worked though.


Thanks for the advice northeast ohioans!


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rgrizza_
> *I tried an inline amplifier (suggested by terk) and it must have been broken because I didn't get a single HD OTA station with it installed... The satellite channels still worked though.
> *




You're too close to all the transmitters. The preamp gets overloaded and you won't get anything. With RF, a big signal can't be made bigger.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *And tonight tends to confirm my suspicions - when I tuned in for CSI, I got no signal at all. I checked again about 10 minutes later and found signal, but it kept breaking up and dying on me. I eventually gave up on it - it became unwatchable. Is anyone else having the same experience?*



CSI was perfect for me last night. Audio was great (Dish fixed the 811 bug) & no dropouts at all here in Twinsburg. Not sure what the problem could be for you. Sometimes depending on location, one day provides for great reception & poor the next. I wish I knew what could help your signal.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz

I compared NYPD Blue on Adelphia HD vs. OTA. They don't look exactly the same in color is what I found. The color was slightly 'bluer' on Adelphia if that makes sense. Also a bit more saturated for some reason. OTA seemed to have a bit more detail in the picture & seemed to have less grain. The differences were SLIGHT & not obvious. Without looking back to back it would be difficult to tell I think. I had to keep switching back & forth dozens of times to really detect what the differneces were. Overall, I felt the OTA was ever so slightly more detailed & crisp, but if the Adelphia was all I had, the difference in PQ wasn't a show stopper. I would pick OTA if I had the choice however, but for convience, Adelphia is fine. My NBC is difficult to pull in OTA on some days, so Adelphia has helped me quite a bit on that end now that it seems their signal is more stable.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

It's been quiet here, so I guess it's time to bring up a favorite topic. Anybody hear any concrete information about new HD channels from Adelphia? Rumor had Starz and Cinemax, but we're now halfway through the month of February and so far nothing.


Those of us who signed up at the introductory rate when they first started offering HD are now paying full price for our HD boxes. The frustration is getting greater...


----------



## paule123

FYI, I got my first bill from WOW with HD service on it, and they are charging $6.99/mo for the HD receiver, contrary to what I was told over the phone some 3 months ago. Now I have to call and ***** since the basic digital cable package ($50.99/mo.) is supposed to include a basic receiver and the installer took that away when he swapped in the HD box...


Other than the gripe about the $6.99 thing, the HD service has been perfect so far.


-- Paul


----------



## DanHuff

jtscherne-


Where are you in Shaker? I grew up on Parkland Dr. across from the golf course (Shaker Hts. CC?) back in the 60's and early 70's until we moved to Colorado to get away from the school bussing issues going on then. My dad was a doctor at St. Lukes and I went to Fernway....


I miss going to the old stadium to see the tribe and Browns play back in the day (Leroy Kelly!)


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

Off topic I think but don't know where else to post this. Is there a resource for Cleveland cable and or satellite providers, their HD offerings and overall prices? The sea is endless when searching for cable and HD combinations at an affordable price.


Anyone care to help out a soon to be HD subscriber??


----------



## rlb

Paul, you mentioned WOW HD service has been perfect. What HD channels are they currently offering and have they scheduled any additions that you are aware of?


Thanks.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlb_
> *Paul, you mentioned WOW HD service has been perfect. What HD channels are they currently offering and have they scheduled any additions that you are aware of?
> *



WOW HD channels are CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX,HBOHD. They said they were working on ESPNHD "real soon now", but I suspect most of these cable companies are going to take their time until next football season. I've asked about InHD, Discovery and HDNet, but heard nothing back.


As a side note, I was looking at Cox Cleveland's channel lineup and they have an amazing number of HD channels - only missing NBC. I don't think anyone here has chimed in here with Cox HD service?


-- Paul


----------



## paule123

Daytona 500 Cleveland viewers - Is anybody else noticing slight motion artifacts in the HD shots, especially the 180mph "in your face" cams mounted to the fence in the curves? I also see very brief pixelation on major scene changes, like from full screen graphics to the race.


I sure would like to know if we can blame WKYC for not dedicating full bandwidth to the event.


-- Paul


----------



## quern

Good question. I am using a channelmaster stealthtenna with my Samsung DirecTv tuner. I feel the quality isn't quite as good as it could be. I've been seeing pixelation in the sceen changes. I have just recently moved to Cleveland from Oklahoma City and I tweeked my antenna to receive 100% signal quality before the race. I'm disappointed in all the dropouts I get every few minutes. Can you fill me in on what the problem is? I've been searching the site and noticed that many people have this problem (except most complaints seems to be with adelphia?). I also noticed that when I first moved I received signal 3-1... now I only receive 2-1.


Thanks in advance.


Jerry


PS. I'm living in Garfield Heights


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by quern_
> *Good question. I am using a channelmaster stealthtenna with my Samsung DirecTv tuner. I feel the quality isn't quite as good as it could be. I've been seeing pixelation in the sceen changes. I have just recently moved to Cleveland from Oklahoma City and I tweeked my antenna to receive 100% signal quality before the race. I'm disappointed in all the dropouts I get every few minutes. Can you fill me in on what the problem is? I've been searching the site and noticed that many people have this problem (except most complaints seems to be with adelphia?). I also noticed that when I first moved I received signal 3-1... now I only receive 2-1.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> PS. I'm living in Garfield Heights*



I'm surprised you got 100% signal on the Samsung. When I had my Sammy T165 hooked up, I got 0% or 50%, nothing in between, and nothing more than 50%. I now watch all HD on cable now so I don't have to fight with all antenna gymnastics anymore. There was no rhyme or reason to antenna placement, season, weather, phases of the moon, etc. Very frustrating dealing with OTA reception. The best I ever got was a silver sensor in a 3rd floor window just ever so carefully perched on a dresser. Move it one inch one way or the other and it was a crapshoot what channel would die. I was about to fashion an outdoor chimney mount for the silver sensor, but cable saved me.


If your antenna is not outdoor, you probably need to get one, or get your indoor antenna as high as possible and connected with a good quality RG6 coax. There is debate over whether any of the local digital stations are broadcasting full power yet. With WKYC-DT being on the lowest VHF channel, 2, that doesn't help either. Others have noticed the weirdness with the channel changing numbers from 3-1 to 2-1 and back again.



-- Paul


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

The race looks like a VCD most of the time for me.


----------



## hoops10

I watched some of it, but thru WFJM in Youngstown. The race looked fine to me, looked really good as a matter of fact. Maybe it was something with WKYC not allocating enough b/w.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

Sorry for the loss of HD with 15 to go. Those brekups locked my satellite receiver up and I had to reboot it. Murphy's Law strikes again.


I opened my encoder up to 17 MB on Friday.


----------



## Russell Bower

Cox Cable carries the following hd channels:

ABC WEWSDT

CBS WOIODT

UPN WUABDT

HBOHD

SHOHD

ESPNHD

BravoHD plus

INHD 1

INHD2

DVD Discovery Channel


----------



## Shawn Pilichis

I was thinking of going with Cox but Dish had some decent offereings too. I'm wondering if anyone has comments of Dish HD?


----------



## AkronGuy

I was watching the race on TWC HD and was getting frequent signal breakup on both the video and audio. Also, as some noted, the picture wasn't the same high quality I get from other sources such as INHD and HDNet. And yes, I did notice the track-level cameras moving when the pack roared by.


But the free preview on the NASCAR in-car channels was neat, albeit in SD only.


----------



## rlb

Paul, thanks for the response regarding WOW's HD lineup. Another question is which cable box are they providing?

Thanks again.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlb_
> *Paul, thanks for the response regarding WOW's HD lineup. Another question is which cable box are they providing?
> 
> Thanks again.*



The box is SA 3250HD. Firewire and DVI ports are not enabled yet.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *I opened my encoder up to 17 MB on Friday.*



Great job! You are doing so much better than WKYC. In fact, you have all the Cleveland stations beat. Keep up the good work.


----------



## rlockshin

For those of you who have been complaining about WKYC. I just spoke to their chief engineer and yes for the past week they have been having numerous drop outs. This was due to new PSIP software being used. They think that as of today the problem should be resolved. If not he asked that you call the station. They want to help.


----------



## paule123

As the official Wide Open West cheerleader







in this thread, I have just learned that *WOW plans to add the following HD channels on March 23*. Text of email from customer service follows:

In regard to new HD channels, we are adding new HD channels on March 23rd. the information is below:


CINEMAX HD: With the same programming schedule as CINEMAX, CINEMAX HD shows films in a wide screen format (16 x 9, 1080i). Approximately 70% of the titles will be in true HD format and the rest are converted to HD format prior to airing.


Discovery HD Theater: Offered as part of the HD Pak, Discovery HD Theater offers stunning programming about nature, travel, geography, science & technology and world culture in the format they should be viewed in - high definition. With 24/7 high definition content, Discovery offers a world-class HDTV experience.


ESPN HD: With the same programming schedule as ESPN, ESPN HD offers a minimum of 4 live sporting events/week in true HD format. The remainder of the programming can be enjoyed on an HDTV as it is converted to HD prior to airing. Beginning in the spring/summer timeframe, ESPN will offer most studio-produced content (i.e. Sports Center) in true HD, following the completion of a new digital media center in Connecticut.


HDNet: HDNet features a variety of programming including live sports (NHL, MLS, CART, pro and college basketball and football, tennis, horse racing and boxing), sitcoms, dramas, action series, documentaries, travel programs and more. With a variety of programming in HD format 24 x 7, HDNet is a great network to enjoy the video quality of an HDTV.


HDNet Movies: Featuring films and other programs from the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, either produced in HD format or converted to HD. Titles are a mix of theatrical releases, made-for-TV movies and independent films.


The above channels are in addition to current HD lineup: HBOHD and the locals CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX.


-- Paul


----------



## SportsRacer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *For those of you who have been complaining about WKYC. I just spoke to their chief engineer and yes for the past week they have been having numerous drop outs. This was due to new PSIP software being used. They think that as of today the problem should be resolved. If not he asked that you call the station. They want to help.*



New HD using Samsung 160 and new Wineguard, pulling 93% digital signal strength on WKYC and then 1 to 3 second dropouts with 0 to 60% momemtary signal, for last week or so. I too called station and an engineer said it was news to them, nice guy but no help. What is the story? Do you think I need to try to give this Samsung 160 back to D* and try for another box or another brand less prone to dropouts? Or is it one of those "they all do that sir" type problem, and I gotta watch the sat or analog feed? Seems a shame, big image quality difference but unwatchable with 10 to 25 drop outs per hour.

Thanks for any ideas...


----------



## rlockshin

Sportsracer, please read my prior post. I dealt with the chief engineer and he was quite aware of the proble,. As of Monday night it was fixed


----------



## hoops10

I checked out WOIO (CBS) and WEWS (ABC) from the 8:30 to 9:00 shows and none of them were in 5.1. So I checked another CBS and ABC affiliate (Youngstown area) and they both were in 5.1. Was this a mishap on WOIO and WEWS or is this common?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hoops10_
> *I checked out WOIO (CBS) and WEWS (ABC) from the 8:30 to 9:00 shows and none of them were in 5.1. So I checked another CBS and ABC affiliate (Youngstown area) and they both were in 5.1. Was this a mishap on WOIO and WEWS or is this common?*



None of the local Cleveland channels broadcast 5.1 audio.


----------



## SportsRacer

rlockshin, you may be right. Less drop outs today. Spoke to D* and they are exchanging the Samsung 160 for new unit, maybe another 160 or the new 360. That may or may not be good depending on the box after reading the bugs on the 360 thread in hardware. Anybody in the area have Samsung 160 vs 360 experience?


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *The box is SA 3250HD. Firewire and DVI ports are not enabled yet.*



If this is the Adelphia HD box you are speaking of, according to an earlier post (I haven't checked it myself), the DVI port on this box has been enabled for a few weeks via a software update they sent.


-Todd


----------



## wfwiles

I tried to watch NCS last night on WOIO and got constant dropouts. WKYC switched to 3.1 again. Every time I try to watch WKYC I have to rescan the receiver because of the switch between 2.1 and 3.1. It seems like Cleveland HDTV is getting worse.


----------



## rgrizza

Noob question for all you HDTV veterans: does WJW Fox 8 boost their digital OTA signal when they are broadcasting a Widescreen Digital show? Last night, I tried to watch 24 and for the first couple of minutes, I got a very weak signal -- flipping between 0 and 30 percent or so, absolutely unwatchable. All of a sudden, it jumped up to 60-90 percent and the show came in great. The moment it ended and the news came one, the signal dropped again and I had to watch the news on their analog broadcast. Does that make sense?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *If this is the Adelphia HD box you are speaking of, according to an earlier post (I haven't checked it myself), the DVI port on this box has been enabled for a few weeks via a software update they sent.
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Sorry, I was getting tired of putting WOW! Cable in all my posts - I was referring to WOWs SA 3250HD box - no DVI or firewire there yet.


-- Paul


----------



## SamSneed6661

I live in Lorain and I would like to know if a cheap radio shack roof top antenna will be adequate for me or not. I live approx. 30 miles from a broadcast, all of the channels are within the 103-120 degree range and I already have a receiver. thanks for any help


----------



## wfwiles

It depends on how cheap. I am about the same distance as you only north east. I use a RS VU-190 and it works fine.


----------



## SamSneed6661

I was planning on buying the VU-120 XR and having it installed by the people who are installing my Direct TV. I have no way to get on my roof. They want to charge alot but I guess they'll do a good job


----------



## PPS

So what's going on with WKYC and the huge amount of pixalization lately?

I noticed above some complaints about drop outs but not the pixalization.

It occurs at scene changes or any movement in a scene. It looks like like when they "enhance" a video on CSI. First big pixels that get progressively smaller until the picture is clear.

Their picture used to be a lot better even with the multicasting.


----------



## Shark73

CSI is on WOIO. Which station are you really talking about?


----------



## Lyle O

sfwiles, SamSneed,

I too live in the NE about the same distance. I have a VU120 on the roof of a 2 story and it works fine. Although lately channel 3 digital hasn't been coming in very well. I get consistently good signals from all other channels.

Jeff


----------



## PPS

I'm talking about WKYC. I was giving CSI as an example as to what the problem looks like. The picture starts out with larger pixels that get smaller until the picture is correct as they do on any of those drama shows that have someone "enhancing" a photo or video. That happens from one scene to the next. Otherwise the picture is pixelated when there is motion in it. This was very apparent on the NASCAR races and Shrek. It happens all the time and only on channel 3.


----------



## Dweezilz

Last night I noticed on ER that there was some pretty harsh pixelation during many of the scenes. I was waching via Adelphia & was wondering if it was like that OTA . I need to adjust my antenna so until spring, NBC will only come in via Adelphia.


Anyone with OTA for NBC see this? I'm guessing it's not Adelphia as I've never seen those issues with their ABC-HD feed.


-Todd


----------



## rlockshin

News from WVIZ. No digital signal for HD until JUne at the earliest. I was told January last fall, but they have had transmitter problems.Just an FYI. They said the funding was all set for HD


----------



## bubblegum1647

Just found this forum. Could someone give me an answer to a problem I have. I live in Medina, Have armstrong cable with a DCT6200 cable box.

My problem is on Digital stations. 3,5,8 mostly. constantly the audio goes up and down. It gets so bad I change back to SD stations. Its real bad on the local news cast. Is this a station problem or the Box, or Armstrong cable? thanks for help


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Definately not a problem with the station the way you described it. The audio will occasionally drop out, but rarely change in volume.


Ive noticed overall that channel 8's volume is louder than the other stations, and channel 3 is softer on their local programming, but normal level on stuff coming from the Network.


----------



## bubblegum1647

Thanks Mike I will call Cable company and have them check box


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bubblegum1647_
> *Just found this forum. Could someone give me an answer to a problem I have. I live in Medina, Have armstrong cable with a DCT6200 cable box.
> 
> My problem is on Digital stations. 3,5,8 mostly. constantly the audio goes up and down. It gets so bad I change back to SD stations. Its real bad on the local news cast. Is this a station problem or the Box, or Armstrong cable? thanks for help*



Are you listening to the audio on your TV or an amp. It probably has nothing to do with your situation but my daughter was having problems with audio going out on one station on her cable box. Called the cable rep in and he changed her TV from stereo to mono and no more problem. Check the settings on your TV, could be something incompatible like simulated surround....


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Since the WKYC change to 2-1, I have not been able to get a guide on this channel. All it says is: Regular Programming










Does anyone know when this will be fixed?


Thanks,

Fred


----------



## Dweezilz

Hey Fred,


You aren't getting guide information via OTA are you?? I didn't think they broadcast the guide information.


-Todd


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

I was....I am still getting it on the other locals(just not WKYC)


----------



## wfwiles

I lost it on 2.1 several days ago and had to rescan. It came back up on 3.1. Never got a guide on OTA......


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PPS_
> *So what's going on with WKYC and the huge amount of pixalization lately?
> 
> I noticed above some complaints about drop outs but not the pixalization.
> 
> It occurs at scene changes or any movement in a scene. First big pixels that get progressively smaller until the picture is clear.
> 
> Their picture used to be a lot better even with the multicasting.*



I notice the same thing with WKYC. I saw it on Daytona 500, that Rodeo thing last Sunday (which was 4:3 SD). Last night on Leno, the cameraman did this wild gyration with the camera on the band, and you could see the picture go to crap with the extreme movement.


I see it all the time now both OTA and via WOW Cable, so it is their multicasting crap that is not giving us all the bandwidth for a decent picture. I am about to drop a little note to the station about this...


-- Paul


----------



## Tim W

Because audience numbers are still low, many broadcast TV stations are "playing around" with their broadcast bit rates - experimenting with digital broadcasts. A good clean HD signal should be sent out at 19.38 mbps - megabits per second. That is the maximum bit stream a station can transmit within the broadcast bandwidth the FCC licenses them to have.


When TV stations multi-cast they have to reduce the stream size of the HD signal in order to have other SD channels within that 19.38 mbps maximum bit-stream. To make a long story short, they cheat the HD signal of the bit rate needed for a good HD broadcast. Some stations allot less than 10 megabits for the HD signal. That's why you see so much garbage(square looking blockiness) in the image when the picture is complex or there is a lot of rapid motion within the image. At a low broadcast or cable bit-rate, quantizing errors occur in the digital image.


Sadly quality is not the issue with most broadcasters and cable companies. Both businesses like to "cheat" - compress the digital signal down to "what they can get away with". Just because something is "digital" that DOES NOT MEAN IT IS BETTER!! Digital IS BETTER ONLY IF THE SIGNAL IS NOT COMPRESSED TOO MUCH!!! If it is compressed too much the beautiful image you're suppose to being viewing turns to crap.


My suggestion would be to write both the broadcaster and the cable company and ask about the stream size of the HD signal. It should be NO LOWER THAN 17 OR 18 MEGABITS. If it is ask the cable company to increase the rate or tell them you'll drop their service. If a broadcaster is "playing around" with the size of the HD bit-stream ask them to stop. Demand that they provide a better quality signal. If they don't stop then write to the FCC and state your case with them.


Tim Werner - Freelance HD/SD Video Editor

Member - The Academy of Television Arts and Sciences

Television Motion Picture Editors - Peer Group


----------



## PPS

I called WKYC last week and left a voice mail message about this pixelization problem. The Chief Engineer actually called me back today to discuss it. He wanted to know exactly what type of pixelization problem I was seeing. He said he wasn't aware there was any problem except for the race.


He was very interested and receptive asking me a lot of questions. We also discussed a whole variety of other HD topics.


He has been monitoring the signal on a 30" monitor. He said he'll try to get some feedback on larger sets.


He was aware of the AVS Forum but didn't realize there was an active local Cleveland thread. He said he will be monitoring it.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Channel 3 may have some bandwidth issues, but that's a lot easier to take than the periodic complete dropout of the signal from channel 19. I wind up having to watch most CBS shows via their SD analog channel because the reception is so inconsistent on their DTV signal.


Does anyone have any idea when channel 55 is going to begin a digital broadcast? My kids like to watch several of the WB shows, and I know that they're being produced in HD, but we sure don't get to see it here.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis_
> *I was....I am still getting it on the other locals(just not WKYC)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



How do you get that? I had a Dish 6000 & now an 811 & have never received guide info on OTA locals.


-T


----------



## bubblegum1647




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *Are you listening to the audio on your TV or an amp. It probably has nothing to do with your situation but my daughter was having problems with audio going out on one station on her cable box. Called the cable rep in and he changed her TV from stereo to mono and no more problem. Check the settings on your TV, could be something incompatible like simulated surround....*




When just watching TV I use the TV sound. On reular SD channels sound is ok. but go to digitial channel it will play ok some times then other times it is terrible. I have steady sound on TV it is a GW111 60". Have tried different sound settings on Tv and Cable box still get it. Cable man came out yesterday and he was stumped. Had another cable man call me and he telling me that its normal for audio to do that.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Now that channel 3-1 is back up, I get a guide!


Thanks guys,

Fred


----------



## rlb

Regarding the guide for OTA channels. As I understand the issue, you don't get the guide OTA. The OTA guide is provided by D* via cross reference with your zip code and input from stations.


----------



## jhelmoreii

Anyone else notice that channel 5 (WEWS) has been completly off the air for several hours at a time lately. I corresponded with them about their Mega Millions snafu on the HD side and they are looking into it. But lately they have been going off air totally.


----------



## VSTAR

Finally, HD cable now available on Adelphia in Painesville Twp. I picked up the box last Thursday. They have ABC NBC and I did receive HBO and Showtime for a few days. I asked the girl when more channels would be up and she did not have any other information.


----------



## jtscherne

Channel 752 (STARZHD) appeared on the Cleveland area HD listing today and it is working here in Shaker Heights. Hopefully this will start a domino effect and we can get some more channels soon!


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I was amused this morning to tune to channel 3-3. Apparently the PC that they use to generate the weather radar map had failed, leaving a Windows bluescreen on the display. It was waiting for a keypress to continue. I tried clicking the enter button on my remote, but it didn't help .


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

what a waste of bandwidth 3-2 and 3-3 are.


----------



## SteveC

Channel 3-2 is great for those of us with 4:3 screens. What they need to do though is turn off 3-2 and 3-3 when 3-1 is showing something in HD and needs all the bandwidth. If they could do that it would be the best of both worlds and make everyone happy.

Steve


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Channel 3-2 is great for those of us with 4:3 screens.*



I've also got a 4:3 screen, and I think 3-2 is a complete and total waste. The only explanation I've heard as to why 3-2 even exists is that it is necessary for the distribution of a digital signal through cable systems. For the life of me I can't figure out how this makes any sense. I'm sure the other locals have a digital distribution stream, but why does WKYC have to actually broadcast theirs?


Now I do like 3-3. I think it's less than a 1 Mb stream, so it doesn't really detract from the HD feed (when compared to how HDTV looks through D* which I'm sure compresses the signal to less than an 18 Mb effective stream). I'm one of the few people on the planet who does not have a broadband connection, and I actually check the radar channel several times a week (although, thankfully, a lot less the past couple of weeks). Being on D*, we also don't get a local forcast on The Weather Channel, so having instant access to the radar is definitely beneficial.


But if they would just get rid of 3-2, I think all would be good. Or at least as good as it could be having a low-power station on VHF channel 2.


----------



## SteveC

ZMan,

I'm curious. Are you saying you prefer the distorted/stretched picture they show on 3-1 that does not fill the 4:3 screen to the non-distorted picture they show on 3-2 that does fill the 4:3 screen? I'm only only talking about non-HD programming. Also, what size is your 4:3 screen?

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## wfwiles

I don't see 3.1 distorted or stretched on my 4:3 set. I do get the black bars at top and bottom in 1080 mode but that is fine as the picture quality is good. I have a 53 inch Sony. If I switch it to 480I it cuts off the sides but fills the screen however the picture isn't as good.....


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *ZMan,
> 
> I'm curious. Are you saying you prefer the distorted/stretched picture they show on 3-1 that does not fill the 4:3 screen to the non-distorted picture they show on 3-2 that does fill the 4:3 screen? I'm only only talking about non-HD programming. Also, what size is your 4:3 screen?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve*



Maybe I'm just not as much of a purist, but I would rather watch the D* SD feed on non-HD material. I just don't see that much of a difference in PQ (except maybe for color definition) between the two to make the bandwidth-wasting 3-2 worthwhile in my book.


Or, if I didn't have D*, I could just watch the analog OTA station instead.


Or, if I really wanted to, I could achieve the same full-screen effect with 3-1 by squeezing the picture with my HD200 and then watching it through the S-Video connection to blow it up to full screen.


I'm watching on a 36" 4:3 Sony XBR, by the way. I guess it's not a true HD set, but it does a pretty good job with a 1080i source. Maybe some day I'll move up, but it works ok for now.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *I don't see 3.1 distorted or stretched on my 4:3 set. I do get the black bars at top and bottom in 1080 mode but that is fine as the picture quality is good. I have a 53 inch Sony. If I switch it to 480I it cuts off the sides but fills the screen however the picture isn't as good.....*



On non-HD material, 3-1 stretches a 4:3 source to fit the width of a 16:9 screen. It's not a bad stretch, and it's not as noticable as other stations that do the same thing (5-1, ESPNHD). On HD material, of course, 3-1 shows the programming in a correct 16:9 ratio that will look fine on our 4:3 sets with the letterboxing on the top and bottom. The best way to notice the stretch is to see how short and fat people look when watching a non-HD source.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

The reason that it does not look like other stretches is that it cuts off a little of the bootom of the picture, so they dont have to stretch the sides as much. And if you have a set with low overscan, you will still see black bars on the sides, albeit very small.


Look heres my point:


if 3-2 and 3-3 never existed, would you guys be complaining that you wanted a weather radar map and a dedicated 4:3 picture as well as the stretched on 3-1? Or would you just be happy with your full bandwidth signal coming from channel 3?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

For you spanish speaking HDTV owners I saw 61 is on the air again. Oh and they stretch their signal too


----------



## wfwiles

I tried to watch JAG last night on WOIO and the signal was dropping out like crazy again. Signal level was down also. Sure wish they would get their act together. Also the analog signal on COMCAST was lousy. I wound up watching it on OTA analog. One step forward 99 back.....


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *For you spanish speaking HDTV owners I saw 61 is on the air again. Oh and they stretch their signal too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



What analog station number are they broadcasting their digital signal on? I did a complete rescan last night and couldn't find the 61 signal even though it was like 90+% for me back when they were doing the test.


I don't speak Spanish, nor do I care about watching most of the programming. But they do have some nice beach-side music videos occasionally.....


----------



## paule123

This morning, NPR (WCPN 90.3) had the president of NPR and the president of PBS on discussing the future of public broadcasting. The show started with the president of PBS congratulating herself on PBS's leading edge accomplishments in digital broadcasting. And how the Cleveland stations in particular are such a great example for other public broadcasters in the nation.


I had to laugh, and fired off an email to the host wondering why our dearly beloved WVIZ is not broadcasting HDTV yet.... No response was forthcoming...


-- Paul


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *This morning, NPR (WCPN 90.3) had the president of NPR and the president of PBS on discussing the future of public broadcasting. The show started with the president of PBS congratulating herself on PBS's leading edge accomplishments in digital broadcasting. And how the Cleveland stations in particular are such a great example for other public broadcasters in the nation.
> 
> 
> I had to laugh, and fired off an email to the host wondering why our dearly beloved WVIZ is not broadcasting HDTV yet.... No response was forthcoming...
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



They have asked for a second extension. For the reason why go here and scroll down to the bottom EXHIBIT 1.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=18753


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *They have asked for a second extension. For the reason why go here and scroll down to the bottom EXHIBIT 1.
> 
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=18753 *



WOW! Not that is VERY interesting -- Viacom/Infinity Broadcasting is the problem here, and I quote:


"VIACOM, INC., THE PARENT COMPANY OF THE PRESENT TOWER OWNER HAS EFFECTIVELY BLOCKED THE INSTALLATION PLANS OF WVIZ."


F'ing corporate *******s. Someone in the press should be screaming about this!


My apologies to WVIZ and PBS










-- Paul


----------



## gnalmij

I looked into the Ideastream v. Infinity Radio lawsuit that is discussed in the FCC filing above, and there was a lawsuit pending in federal court last March 5-13, 2003. Ideastream dismissed the case on the 13th, but the court's entry notes that it (Judge Polster) had scheduled a conference call for May 5, 2003 to discuss "an assessment of the technical and commercial issues involved in Plaintiff's proposed Scope of Work." Because the case was dismissed, there's no record of what happened since then. However, because the request for extension filed at the FCC was filed Sept. 9, 2003, it does not appear that Infinity was responding positively to WVIZ's proposed Scope of Work. So you have the company (Viacom) that owns Infinity, CBS, UPN and all the Nickelodeon channels (kids programming) preventing WVIZ (a lot of kids programming) from using its license to broadcast in HD? Interesting.

The only good news here is that WVIZ's problems with Viacom mean that my 5-year-old daughter is not begging to use "daddy's" TV to watch Clifford, Arthur, Dragon Tales, etc., in HD. One day she will be (and she can use her tooth fairy money to get her own HDTV!).


----------



## gnalmij

So the Plain Dealer article yesterday on HDTV options with various cable and satellite services says that Adelphia has Discovery HD Theater and ESPN HD. I have Adelphia HD, but I don't see these channels (I do have HD channels for NBC, ABC, HBO, SHO and STARZ listed). Do other Adelphia users here have these channels, and, if so, what are the channel numbers?


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gnalmij_
> *So the Plain Dealer article yesterday on HDTV options with various cable and satellite services says that Adelphia has Discovery HD Theater and ESPN HD. I have Adelphia HD, but I don't see these channels (I do have HD channels for NBC, ABC, HBO, SHO and STARZ listed). Do other Adelphia users here have these channels, and, if so, what are the channel numbers?*



Ah yes, The Cleveland Plain Dealer, The Content-Free Newspaper!


I phoned Adelphia yesterday morning and they do NOT offer ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theater. Perhaps the columnist mis-heard them talking about future fantasies?


----------



## SteveC

The columnists for the Akron Beacon Journal all list their phone numbers and email addresses at the end of every article. Does the Plain Dealer follow this policy? If so, email the author and ask them to print a correction.

Steve


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, his email was there. I meant to write him, but didn't have the time yesterday.


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *The columnists for the Akron Beacon Journal all list their phone numbers and email addresses at the end of every article. Does the Plain Dealer follow this policy? If so, email the author and ask them to print a correction.
> 
> Steve*



With respect to the Plain Dealer, I have this business card in my pocket with a drawing of a pig in mud: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."


Certainly nothing PERSONAL intended. The Publisher is a high school classmate of mine and I introduced the former Medical Editor to her husband. Good folks there, I just don't mess with their business.


----------



## SteveC

I found the article on the net. Here is the sentence in question:


Adelphia and Comcast do not charge extra for nonpremium cable channels such as ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theater; Cox charges $5 extra for Discovery HD Theater but does not charge for other nonpremium channels.


He does not specifically state that Adelphia carries those channels but it is certainly easy to come to that conclusion. Overall I thought the article was well written and would be helpful to someone thinking about moving into the HD arena. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.cleveland.com/search/inde...0441.xml?lhtec 


Steve


----------



## roblake

SteveC -


The Table on the next page clearly had ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theater checked in the Adelphia column.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

So what on earth happened to WUAB last night? I looked for Enterprise, but found nothing but a blank screen - no signal whatsoever. An hour later it was back to normal, but since Enterprise is one of the very few HD shows that they broadcast, that was a disappointment.


----------



## panjj

You may not be aware that Enterprise was moved to 9 from its regular 8 time slot. Perhaps that was your problem.


----------



## SteveC

I checked at 9:00 PM and then again ten or fifteen minutes later and there was no signal. I checked at 10:00 and it was back.


----------



## PPS

I had a signal at 8:00 but none at 9:00 also.


----------



## panjj

I have been unable to get any update on new offerings from Adelphia HD(espn, discovery, etc.). Anyone heard an update? Thanks.


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia is too busy spending dollars on newspaper supplements to sign new contracts (they had a big one in today's Plain Dealer).


----------



## JasonColeman

My wife and I just got Adelphia's new HD "package" that consists of a whopping 3 choices- NBC, ABC, & HBO (because we subscribe to HBO). I've been trying to find out when other stations might be available, but I keep getting the same runaround. We're out in Concord, so I don't know how location might affect channel line-up, but for now it's pretty lame. I'm looking more and more into Voom or an OTA HD setup in the meantime.


J.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I'd recomend over the air. Looking through the thread, you will see that we complaign a lot, but most of the time we are happy. You can get a decent STB for a couple hundred now. You should be able to pick up 3,5,8,17,19,43, and 61. With 25 and 55 coming around half past never. You may also get some stations out of Youngstown or Toledo. Get a STB, get a kicka$$ antenna, and you should be good to go.


----------



## JasonColeman

Mike-


Thanks for the suggestions. Can you recommend any particular STB's or antenna? We're about 28 miles from Cleveland and I'd like to pick up VHF and UHF (WKYC in VHF, right?). Do you know of particular equipment that would fit the bill? Like I said, and I've read, Adelphia could take forever to get a decent HD line-up.


J.


----------



## SteveC

 www.antennaweb.org is a very helpful tool for determining the size of antenna you need. www.starkelectronic.com has a great selection of equipment at good prices once you decide what you want. As for the STB, the HDTV Hardware forum is the place to start. Lots of info on everything that is out there. Also, if you are confortable with PC's a HTPC is a great way to go. The HTPC forum has lots of info on putting one together. A MyHD tuner card is $289 at www.digitalconnection.com and it gives you the ability to digitally record the HD broadcasts. I have one and I love it.

Steve


----------



## Gsthe1

Jason-


I'm also out in Concord and am waiting for my Samsung SIR-T351 OTA STB to arrive tomorrow. I put a RS directional boom VHF/UHF antenna up in the attic near the roof peak and ran 50' of cable down to the basement theater room. I got the Sammie 351 due to the low price and DVI output to feed to my LCD projector. Apparently Cleveland stations don't broadcast Dolby 5.1 yet, so that particular shortcoming of the 351 tuner isn't a factor.


We have decent elevation on the street, so am hoping for good HD reception. I'll report back after it's hooked up this weekend.


----------



## JasonColeman

Gsthe1-


Excellent to hear that you will "guinea pig" for me. Whereabouts in Concord are you? We're right at Little Mountain and Morley. We, too, have pretty decent elevation. I'm very curious about your results. Keep us posted!


J.


----------



## paule123

Hey guys, my Wide Open West tech was out here today to check a signal level problem, and he mentioned that Comcast is buying out Adelphia in the Cleveland area ??!!


-- Paul


----------



## jtscherne

Haven't heard that one, although it might explain why they're moving so slowly in doing any HD upgrades.


I'm also not sure what the terms of the bankruptcy proceedings are. Adelphia might not be able to sell anything without court permission. I saw an article recently about their reorganization plan, but it supposedly didn't sit well with some stockholders, some of whom want to break up the company.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Hey guys, my Wide Open West tech was out here today to check a signal level problem, and he mentioned that Comcast is buying out Adelphia in the Cleveland area ??!!
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



Hmm...My wife is a portfolio manager and looked it up on their system that pulls all info about aquisitions & mergers (it's the same system that wall street uses) & there isn't one word about this at all. The only thing mentioned about Comcast is about Comcast & Disney and the only thing mentioned about Adelphia is that they came up with a plan this past week that outlines an organization of selling the entire company in one lump sum. It said that there is a group of partial owners that have objected to this plan & have submitted their own plan to sell Adelphia in chunks. Neither plan has been voted on yet so it's far from being settled either way. Maybe this cable guy confused this information.


It would seem strange that a cable guy has the info about the sale but Wall Street doesn't. ha!


Oh well, thought I'd pass along the buzz in the Market.



-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

It's also possible that rumors have become fact, at least with rival cable technicians!


----------



## Dweezilz

ha! yeah they are probably hoping they take over for Adelphia...and...that wouldn't be a bad thing for us either probably!







We'll see how it unfolds. I wouldn't be suprised if Comcast does buy the entire thing.


-Todd


----------



## wfwiles

I had some friends over the other day to watch a DVD when one of them asked why there was a News Channel 5 logo on the screen. HUH We watch the channel 5 news at noon and my wife has 5 on from five to six thirty. The logo which they place in the same place on the screen is burning in the screen on my projection TV. I have a Sony 53 inch about three years old. I sent an e-mail complaint to the station for what good that will do. I guess we will have to stop our viewing habits before the logo really stands out. Anyone else seeing this????


----------



## JasonColeman

I wouldn't really care if Burger King bought Adelphia...as long as they got some decent HD programming.


J.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

WFWiles is your tv set properly with the contrast around 40~50%?


This is what you get for letting your wife watch your tv. Just like you shouldn't use the Vacuum cleaner, you might break something. Better to leave the TV and Vacuum to their intended users.


----------



## ted_b

I just posted the same news on the HD Programming forum, NCAA thread....


After putting a call into CBS WOIO-DT's engineering dept manager, I received a call back from their Programming Manager, Lisa. She informs me that WOIO-DT will be showing all the HD content for the NCAA regionals this weekend (Kansas City, Kemper Arena stuff), even though the SD channel may stay with more regionally interesting coverage. This is great news for us N. Ohio'ers, assuming the signal hangs in there. Since there are few, if any, locally-interesting teams anyway (go Dayton Flyers, my alma mater) this shouldn't upset any 10-1 watchers. Yeah WOIO...seems only about half the CBS affiliates are doing this.


Ted_B


P.S. She says this schedule is all on the actionnewsnow website, as well....she hopes to keep it up-to-date.


----------



## SteveC

This is great news for the simple reason that they have finally changed their paradigm on this. In the past their programming director would be adamant that they had to show the same thing on both channels - no matter how many other stations I would list that were showing different things. They somehow finally figured it out. Hallelujah. Now, if they would just multicast the the SD games(only when no HD feed is available) it would be nirvana. I've talked to the chief engineer about this and he said they did not have the necessary equipment to multicast and had no plans to buy it. Too bad. I'm still hoping the CBS station in Youngstown will have this capability to make full use of the technology. It would give them an advantage over WOIO and increase the size of their audience(at least during the NCAA). Anyone know when they plan to come online?

Steve


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

That is super news. Hopefully they come through. I remember last year there was a nightmare trying to get 19 to show the games on the HD channel. Of course we were going to war at the time, but they said they would show basketball on the digital channel with news on the analog, but they fumbled.


Here's hopin they got the right people working the next couple days.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

well i got to see about 5 minutes of the afternoon games today. looked better than i remembered last year. too bad i have to go to the cavs game tonight and cant watch the rest of the hd games today.










cuz i know the cavaliers are gonna lose. i have not seen in person a home team win a sporting event since labor day weekend when the tribe beat the blue jays.


----------



## Gsthe1

Wow, I'm a believer in Cleveland-style HD OTA, now!


We just got the new Sammie T351 STB and hooked it up to the 150" VHF/UHF antenna residing in the attic. We're running DVI at 720p to the SE 2HD (Z2 clone) pj. Strong signals about 28 miles NE of the towers out here in Concord (off of Pinecrest near Morley) on NBC, ABC, CBS (incredible NCAA games out of KC last nite)FOX, UPN and Univision. The video suffered no dropouts and the Dolby 2.0 was fine, as well.


Keep up the good work, WOIO, on the live basketball in full HD! And way to go Jay Leno and NBC!


Jason, we must be just around the corner from you.


-Bob


----------



## hoops10

Are these hoops games being broadcasted in HD? I checked TitanTv.com and it didn't say that the games were in HD. Because a game is being broadcasted on a digital channel, does that mean it's in HD?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hoops10_
> *Are these hoops games being broadcasted in HD? I checked TitanTv.com and it didn't say that the games were in HD. Because a game is being broadcasted on a digital channel, does that mean it's in HD?*



Somebody else can give you a better answer, but checking yesterday afternoon, I saw at least one HD game. I don't really watch basketball, so I couldn't even tell you who was playing. But it did look good.


Oh, and the little "HD" indicator on my HD200 didn't light, so the programming guide is not set to show that the programming was HD. Maybe that's why Titan was incorrect, too.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

If there is an HD game being played, it will be on WOIO-DT channel 10, even if WOIO channel 19 is showing a more regional game. Check the programming forum for a schedule of the HD games.


But if you turn your TV on, it should be pretty clear whether it is in HD or not.


----------



## SteveC

Just look in the HDTV Programming Forum. There is a thread for the NCAA games that lists which games are in HD. I think only a couple of the several sites that are hosting games this weekend are broadcasting in HD. I don't think any are in HD today. I believe the Kansas/Pacific game tomorrow will be in HD.


----------



## paule123

The other thing that confuses the issue I saw 4:3 SD broadcast pillarboxed inside the 16:9 HD graphic frame. So it was technically HD to the set top box but crappy 4:3 SD game video inside....


Might explain why TitanTV doesn't have an accurate listing, because CBS switches in and out of HD/non-HD games depending on the action.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

So the lesson here is, dont listen to TitanTV, listen to Ken in the programming forum.


----------



## Shark73

Hi all! I was in Vegas this weekend and did not get to see any of the HD games on WOIO. I was hoping that a few of you could state how the signal was this weekend. I know from the past that we can have a few signal drops from WOIO. They have been better over the past few months, but you never know.


Thanks!


Jim


----------



## SteveC

I had no problems. It looked great. Can't wait to see the games this week


----------



## Rbuchina

Is it my Dish 6000 receiver or is Digital Fox, 31 off the air? The last few times I tried to tune to it with my Dish 6000 receiver I sometimes see some signal strength but never a picture or sound.


Ray


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *Is it my Dish 6000 receiver or is Digital Fox, 31 off the air? The last few times I tried to tune to it with my Dish 6000 receiver I sometimes see some signal strength but never a picture or sound.
> 
> 
> Ray*



Can't answer the question, but it wouldn't surprise me. I wasn't able to actually check, but it looked to me like I was getting Fox on Sunday night in 720p versus the old 480p. Being an O&O market, maybe we're getting some of the early rollout of the new HD equipment. Perhaps the station is off the air currently because of installs?


Hey, I can hope, can't I?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Can't answer the question, but it wouldn't surprise me. I wasn't able to actually check, but it looked to me like I was getting Fox on Sunday night in 720p versus the old 480p. Being an O&O market, maybe we're getting some of the early rollout of the new HD equipment. Perhaps the station is off the air currently because of installs?
> 
> 
> Hey, I can hope, can't I?*



720p, really? What program did they have on?


----------



## SteveC

If they are really doing 720p then they are up-converting the 480p feed they get from Fox. As reported in the Fox thread in the Programming forum the 720p feed from Fox won't go live until August. Still, 480p up-converted to 720p probably looks better than the native 480p. And it means they will certainly be able pass the 720p feed when they get it later this year. Good news.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *720p, really? What program did they have on?*



I just caught a few minutes of The Simpsons pillarboxed. But that was the first clue, as they usually do a pretty good crop / stretch job on 4:3 material.


Plus, my HD200 box upconverts 720 material to 1080 since the set won't handle native 720. The set definitely "jumped" into squeeze mode when it stopped on The Simpsons. It never did that before on 480p material, and that's what made me think I was getting 720.


Again, I could be completely wrong. I wasn't able to verify the signal being received. I'm just reporting what I saw from my easy chair.


----------



## SteveC

I'll check it out tonight. I'm using a MyHD card in my HTPC to receive the OTA HD channels. It has a display function that tells what the input signal is.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Yep, sure seems 720p to me. I've verified it with the HD200 tonight. Cool.


----------



## Lyle O

Rbuchina,

I tried briefly last night on my Dish 6000 and got the same thing. Nothing on Fox 31 except a signal strength indication. I wonder if it is a problem with the Dish 6000 software.

Jeff


----------



## SteveC

I tried around 9:00 PM and was not able to pick up a signal. I have never had a problem before. I did not have any time to fool around with it though. Should have more time tonight.


----------



## Rbuchina

Jeff,


Thanks for the reply, I live in Mentor so we both should have similar reception issues. I don't normally watch anything on FOX so I'm not real concerned about when this will get straightened up.


Ray


----------



## Dweezilz

I haven't had any issues with Fox at all OTA. Looks the same as it always does.


----------



## SteveC

My problem the other night was the antenna was pointed at Youngstown. Picked up 31 with no problem once I pointed the antenna correctly. I watched Tru Calling last night. Not only was it 480p but it was not widescreen like it usually is. It appeared they were just up-converting the analog feed. Anyone call and ask what was going on? I actually recorded it to my hard drive and watched it around 11:00 so calling wasn't an option.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Fox is showing NASCAR today, Busch series. It should be in widescreen but it is not. Has anyone witnessed any Fox widescreen since Tru Calling?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Still no widescreen on Fox.


----------



## Shark73

Just checked and you are right. No WS on Fox today for the race.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I called, the guy in the control room made it sound like they are not receiving widescreen from Fox. No mention in the programming forum yet which leads me to believe this is a WJW problem.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

fixed


it shows up as SD for me, so it doesnt look like a 720p convert like guys were mentioning on the preceeding page.


----------



## Shark73

I now have a Fox Sports logo on the screen. Something is messed up at Fox.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

My guess is the fox sports logo was for the insertion of local commercials, which channel 8 runs in their analog stretch zoom mode. So they didn't show any. I didnt notice a local commercial til a GWB ad during the post race.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I'm known for doubting myself, so I thought I'd ask. Is everybody else getting the signal in 720p just without the widescreen programming?


I haven't had a chance to watch anything except PBS Kids the past couple of days, so I haven't had a chance to check again for myself.


----------



## Tom in OH

anyone in the Mansfield(Shelby) area who would like to help me install an ota to receive Cleveland locals in HD? Could use someone to catch me when I fall off the roof.


Thx, Tom


----------



## paule123

Just thought I'd let you guys know complaining to the FCC about WKYC's multicasting PQ issues is utterly useless. I sent my first email to them about 3 weeks ago, after a few days they emailed me a lovely PDF of how I go about complaining to my cable company, that they are not responsible for cable signal issues.


I reiterated that it is an OVER THE AIR problem confirmed by my OVER THE AIR receiver and that I merely confirmed the PQ problem in parallel with my cable box.


So about a week and a half later, I get another email with the same PDF about how to complain to the cable company or my local governmental authority, it's not the FCC's responsibility.


So I've now replied a third time with more emphasis on OVER THE AIR and we'll see what happens...


-- Sigh --


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Paule you made a major mistake here. Your dealing with the government. Thats not gonna get you anywhere.


Tom in OH, just get some rope, you'll be fine.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Is everybody else getting the signal in 720p just without the widescreen programming?*



Definitely back to 480p tonight. I swear I wasn't dreaming the whole 720p thing earlier. Right? RIGHT??


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *
> 
> 
> Tom in OH, just get some rope, you'll be fine.*



I'm already gonna fall off the roof, now u want me to hang myself too?? geez, u guys are a lotta help....


----------



## Ilya

So, which digital OTA channels should one expect to be able to get in Cleveland with an average antenna? Here is what I figured from this thread and from www.antennaweb.org so far:

*3.1 (freq=2) WKYC-DT (NBC) Cleveland

3.2 - SD version of 3.1 WKYC-DT (NBC)

3.3 - Weather map

5.1 (freq=15) WEWS-DT (ABC) Cleveland

8.1 (freq=31) WJW-DT (FOX) Cleveland

17.1 (freq=39) WDLI-DT (TBN) Canton

19.1 (freq=10) WOIO-DT (CBS) Shaker Heights

43.1 (freq=28) WUAB-DT (UPN) Lorain

61.1 (freq=34) WQHS-DT (UNI) Cleveland*


The following channels are not yet available, but are expected in the future:

*25.1 (freq=26) WVIZ-DT (PBS) Cleveland

49.1 (freq=50) WEAO-DT (PBS) Akron

55.1 (freq=30) WBNX-DT (WB) Akron

67.1 (freq=47) WOAC-DT (SAH) Canton*


I've also heard about the following stations, but I don't know if they are reachable from Cleveland:


21.1 WFMJ-DT (NBC) Youngstown

45.1 WNEO-DT (PBS) Alliance

45.2 WNEO-DT2 (PBS) Alliance

68.1 WMFD-DT Mansfield


I would appreciate any comments. Please let me know if I missed something.


----------



## SteveC

Add channel 36(ABC) from Youngstown. I prefer it to 15 because they do not distort the picture on the analog signal up-conversion like 15 does.


----------



## SteveC

Paule123,

I'm curious, what FCC regulation do you believe WKYC has violated? As I understand the current regulations, a station is not even required to broadcast HDTV. Digital transmission is the only requirement and they are doing that.

Steve


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Add channel 36(ABC) from Youngstown. I prefer it to 15 because they do not distort the picture on the analog signal up-conversion like 15 does.*



Would that be 33.1?

I see you are in Akron. Can we get it in Cleveland too?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Paule123,
> 
> I'm curious, what FCC regulation do you believe WKYC has violated? As I understand the current regulations, a station is not even required to broadcast HDTV. Digital transmission is the only requirement and they are doing that.
> 
> Steve*



I don't think they have violated any regulation. I just want to rattle some cages regarding the multicasting issue which many people have voiced displeasure with. The FCC says I can complain about "signal quality" and for the price of an email, why not say something? The FCC, the broadcast industry and the consumer electronics industry are so very proud of this wonderful technology, so IMHO, let's make sure it's the best it can be.


From a marketing point, if I'm NBC I'd like to know that there are viewers out there saying "man those football games on ABC and CBS look awesome, I wonder why sporting events on NBC don't look as good?"


Like they say for every 1 person that complains, there's probably 100 more that never say anything, and I figure it's better to make our voices heard early on in the HDTV process than let the stations get themselves locked in to some channel arrangement that is even harder to change later on down the road.


/rant mode off


-- Paul


----------



## SteveC

Ilya,

If you would be more specific about your location perhaps some of the other thread subscribers that see they are near you will answer that question. At the very least you would probably need a good quality antenna with a rotor on your roof. Depending on the length of coax between your antenna and receiver you may need an amp too. What equipment do you have now?

Steve


----------



## SteveC

Paul,

Probably the best thing you can do is send a note to the programming director at WKYC and state that because of their lower picture quality you are instead watching the digital channel of the NBC affiliate in Youngstown(as I am).

Steve


----------



## Dweezilz

What is the purpose of the Univision digital station. Do they have any plans for HD? I'd love to see those 'Univision Women' in HD!!!










-Todd


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

If anyone in NE Ohio is interested in watching WOIO's DT channel on Time Warner Cable, I've figured out how to "hack" the Pioneer HDTV box to let you do so. It seems that it is in "hidden" mode, and after some time, I've discovered the secret to unlock it!


Tune to channel 611. You can't access it from the guide, you have to be on an actual channel. Then, under the "tuning" header on the left, type "0541" in the channel number space (top). This should bring-up the sound, but no video. Then, hit the yellow "triangle" button 3 times...this should bring-up the channel!


I found WNEO-HD the same way about a week before they added it a few months back. I don't know if TWC finally struck a deal with Raycom (I can't find a hidden WUAB-HD anywhere!) but if not, at least us TWC subscribers can watch the Final Four and the Masters in HD!!!


Anyway, if you all know this already...sorry. I just figured this out and wanted to share with all!


Enjoy CBS-HD NE Ohio!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K_
> *If anyone in NE Ohio is interested in watching WOIO's DT channel on Time Warner Cable, I've figured out how to "hack" the Pioneer HDTV box to let you do so. It seems that it is in "hidden" mode, and after some time, I've discovered the secret to unlock it!
> 
> 
> Tune to channel 611. You can't access it from the guide, you have to be on an actual channel. Then, under the "tuning" header on the left, type "0541" in the channel number space (top). This should bring-up the sound, but no video. Then, hit the yellow "triangle" button 3 times...this should bring-up the channel!
> 
> 
> Enjoy CBS-HD NE Ohio!*



thx for posting, but what do u mean by "type" 0541 and do u mean the yellow triangle on the twc remote?


thx, Tom


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Using the remote. At the yop-right it says "Display Channel". Move the cursor over to it and in the 4 places (it should say "0000") type (w/ the remote) "0541". Don't forget to hit the blue "select" button after you type in "0541".


And yes, I mean the yellow triangle on the TWC remote. I should have been more clear. I hope that helps.


(Do you guys get the Cleveland HD stations in Shelby?)


----------



## Tom in OH

my neighbor has the Pioneer HD box you're refering to. I helped him set it up to his new Mitsubishi HD. I think he only gets abc & nbc in HD. I'll have to ask for sure. I'll look very smart though if I go over and dial in more HD with your trick - thx.


by the way, I bought my Tosh HDTV from HHGreg in Canton. Nice place.


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Again...I hope you GET the Cleveland channels in Shelby. (WKYC, WEWS, and WJW for networks). Check first, cause if you don't...it obviously won't work.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K_
> *Again...I hope you GET the Cleveland channels in Shelby. (WKYC, WEWS, and WJW for networks). Check first, cause if you don't...it obviously won't work.*



abc & nbc in HD are from cleveland.


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Sweet!


----------



## Tom in OH

I bought my Tosh 34HFX83 at HHGreg in Canton. That must be the same store where u work unless there's another.


What has HHGreg heard concerning the HD-Tivo HD-DVR250 ? Will u guys carry it?


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Same one...small world, no?


As far as the HD TiVo goes...we are a Dish Network distributor. We don't carry DirectTV, or TiVo, so I seriously doubt we'll be getting that in the near future. We have the 931 Dish HD-PVR (well...kinda...there isn't any stock on it), but no TiVo.


----------



## oachalon

wews hd just showed up on my comcast hd box. Finally they are giving me some extra channels. They havent turned it on yet but they probably will tomorrow cause thats when they are taking hbo cinemax and showtime off the analog side. I did get nba tv also. Cbs would be nice. Maybe soon.


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Ilya,
> 
> If you would be more specific about your location perhaps some of the other thread subscribers that see they are near you will answer that question. At the very least you would probably need a good quality antenna with a rotor on your roof. Depending on the length of coax between your antenna and receiver you may need an amp too. What equipment do you have now?
> 
> Steve*



SteveC,

I am in Solon and have an amplified Stealth antenna that came with VOOM. But my question is not specific to my particular location. In Cleveland VOOM thread at SatelliteGuys.us we are trying to figure out which channels should be added to the "Cleveland" OTA channel map. You see, VOOM currently doesn't have OTA scanning/manual tuning capability, so every VOOMer in Cleveland area has to rely on a predefined OTA channel map, which currently includes 5 local channels: 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43 (also 68 - but this one is too far). Currently, we are thinking about requesting two additional channels to be added to the map: 17 and 61. (May be also 3.2 and 3.3, so we could watch unstretched SD programs on NBC, and the weather map).


If anyone is aware of any other digital stations that can be easily reached from Cleveland/Cuyahoga County, and should be added to the VOOM's OTA map, please let me know.


Thanks.


----------



## Ben Music

Just to bring you Comcast HDTV folks up to date,if you havent already heard.


ABCHD is now on the air on Comcast CH210.

This brings us up to 10 HD channels with more to come.


Today started the rollout of the Motorola DCT-6208, which is the single tuner HDPVR box.


Also, the buildout of on-demand was started last week and should be ready by the end of May.


Ben Music (Beta Testor)


----------



## SonomaSearcher

Ben,


Is the 6208 rollout beta test only, or for all customers?


Thanks.


----------



## Ben Music

SS,

6208 rollout is for all Cleveland Comcast area.


Ben Music


----------



## SonomaSearcher

Thanks. Cleveland is the fourth Comcast area to roll out the 6208's, along with Washington D.C., Dallas and Richmond, VA.


----------



## hoops10

Smak Runner 2K, I tried this trick to tune in WOIO from my parent's house (they live in Youngstown and already get some local HD stations thru Time Warner), but the trick didn't work. When I type in 0541 and hit 'Select', I don't get any sound. Does this work with only some Pioneer boxes? Any other settings I have to enter?


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

I don't think you get HD locals from Cleveland in Youngstown, do you? More specifically, I believe TWC Youngstown has a different CBS affilliate than WOIO. That would be the reason. You have to be in a WOIO coverage area to get the WOIO-HD. Aren't you guys like WKBN (27) or somthing out there for CBS?


Tell you what, when I get home from work tonight (around 7pm) I'll post pictures of the process for anyone confused.


----------



## hoops10

Smak, you are right about us having a different CBS affiliate. It is WKBN but they have not got digital yet. My parents do get the analog WOIO that is why I thought that this trick would work. Does getting the analog WOIO mean anything?


----------



## SteveC

hoops,

Maybe they assigned it a different channel number on the Youngstown TWC system. I would try all the unassigned channel numbers that are just above and below the local digital channel numbers you are currently able to receive. Can't hurt to try. You might get lucky. Did they turn it on temporarily for the Super Bowl like they did on the Akron TWC system?

Steve


----------



## Dweezilz

Does anyone here in Cleveland have a Dish Network 811 and also watch CSI on WOIO 10.1? I need some help with a problem. For some reason on that show, I get what seems to be one channel audio through all 5 speakers (same through each). It also happens on CBS sports. All other programs are fine usually including CSI-Miami. I have called Dish 3 times over the last 3 months & they can't/won't help me. They are saying it's WOIO's problem but that can't be the case as everyone would have this issue. Dish DID have a bug with left channel audio on all 5 speakers back in January they said, but it's since been fixed. I'm running the newest software revision & I've reset the reciever as well.


The next step is for them to exchange the 811 for a new one but I wanted to check to see if anyone else had this issue too or if an 811 actually worked for surround sound on CSI for anyone here.


-Todd


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Errrm, OK...


I can still do the trick, but the picture / sound are now gone, leaving just a blank screen when you access 541 the back way. There's still a channel there, otherwise it would say "Not Authorized" or "Out of Range" like normal...it's just black....hmmm...


Oh well, I'll post pics as soon as it comes back and they're worth posting. If I can't get a CBS-HD picture by the Final Four tomorrow...I'M GONNA BE PISSED!!!!


----------



## Tom in OH

if TWC has a deal with the CBS station why do u think they haven't already turned it on? It seems strange that it's necessary to do this trick if the station is there. It's a pretty good trick no matter what. I'm still a little freaked how u ever found it... amazing. I haven't had a chance to try it at my neighbor's, he's on vacation.


----------



## jtscherne

When I called Adelphia to order the baseball package, I asked about the status of new HD stations. First off, Adelphia requires now you to call a toll-free number, rather than the local number. The person I talked to claimed we should now be getting Fox (708), CBS (719), and WUAB (743) in Shaker Heights. The last time I looked (earlier today), I don't see those stations in the channel guide. I haven't tried to tune them directly (I'm at work right now), but I'm assuming they aren't giving out correct information. Anybody know anything?


He also had no current information about ESPN or Discovery (maybe July!)


----------



## Dweezilz

Bad information I'd say. Maybe he was trying to say those are the other local digital channels available, not necessarily available on Adelphia yet though.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Except that he gave me exact channel numbers, all in the 700s where the rest of the HD stations are... I even said, "in Shaker Heights?" and he said "yes". I told him I didn't have those stations and he said, "You should." I almost quipped back on that one...


----------



## Dweezilz

If we based our information on what people at Adelphia told us, then we'd also believe that digital cable was as good as HD, which is exactly what they said when asked if they had HD last year. ha!










Also the cable guy from Adelphia told someone here (was it you?) that comcast had already purchased Adelphia in Cleveland which isn't true either.


Seriously though, it's possible this person knows the channel mappings of the future channels & maybe they will be here in the next week or two, but as of now, they aren't there.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Oh, I totally agree with you... It's just the latest in the long line of Adelphia issues.


----------



## Dweezilz

The other day when I asked them about the HD-DVR, the woman was very rude & acted as if I was nuts. Typical Adelphia. Sad thing is, my experience with Dish Network hasn't really been that much better! They too are clueless and make one mistake after the next. If only Voom had ESPN-HD & HDNET (and the other missing non-HD channels). I'd be all over that.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Hey, if I lived in a house rather than an apartment, I'd be with Wide Open West by now. I already cancelled my cable modem from Adelphia, but otherwise I'm stuck.


----------



## RonOhio

Is there a way to reach WKYC engineering on a weekend. Every once in a while they send the incorrect PSIP data with their virtual channel set to 2-1 instead of 3-1. I wonder how hard it would be to correct this on a weekend? Could they do it as easily as they "flip the switch" for HD?


Anyone have a suggestion?


Thanks,


Ron


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I wouldnt say that PSIP info is a big deal compared to all the other crap we Clevelanders put up with. HEHE







But I guess just call the newsroom, and ask to speak to a human being in the control room or engineering. Thats what I did with Fox last weekend.


----------



## paule123

Well guys, Wide Open West just added a new HD tier here in the Cleveland area. It's $9.99/mo. and I signed up for it last night. It consists of ESPNHD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, and DiscoveryHD. Unfortunately it looks like WOW is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new HD channels.


I watched two shows last night and much to my disappointment, I noticed extreme pixelation with movement.


On DiscoveryHD, I watched "Hong Kong Lantern Festival" - the scenes where the "dragons" are dancing (the dragon heads have a lot of detail and move quickly), they looked fuzzed out.


On HDNet, the Counting Crowes concert (very low lighting, smoky), was almost unwatchable. Every shot of the drummer (moving drumsticks) looked like a really bad cellphone camera shot. Every scene change had a lot of pixelation.


I have the SA3250 HD box. I've had the HD locals here for about 6 months and they don't exhibit the pixelation problem. (except for WKYC with the multicasting, and that is nowhere near as bad as what I'm seeing on HDNet and DiscoveryHD)


Anyone else with WOW notice this?


-- Paul


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *I wouldnt say that PSIP info is a big deal compared to all the other crap we Clevelanders put up with. HEHE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I guess just call the newsroom, and ask to speak to a human being in the control room or engineering. Thats what I did with Fox last weekend.*



Its a big deal to me because my HDTV receiver will not tune the channel in if its PSIP data is incorrect.


I did call the chief engineer at WKYC and they said that their software license had expired for the system that sends PSIP data, and they are working to renew the license. He hopes it will be fixed today.


----------



## SteveC

I was flipping around the OTA digital channels this weekend and I stopped to watch a little of the golf on channel WKYC for a few minutes. When they came back from a station break they displayed one of those rotating station logos. I just saw it for a split second before it disappeared but I'm pretty sure it said "First in HDTV". I burst out laughing and wondered how they could ever rationalize themselves as being "First". Then I got to thinking that if they were the first to come on the air that would certainly qualify them to make the claim "First in HDTV". Does anyone know for sure which of the Cleveland digital channels came on the air first? When I got my first tuner back in early 2000, I'm pretty sure 2, 10, and 15 were all on the air. I can't remember about 31. If someone knows who was first, please post the answer.

Steve


----------



## SteveC

Ron,

My DTC100 has an option called "Use online guides". As long as I don't turn this option on, the tuner ignores all PSIP information and does not try to remap any channels. Perhaps your tuner has a similar feature you could use until the PSIP data is corrected. That would allow you to tune the channels using the native channel numbers. I can't believe any manufacturer would build a tuner without this feature. No way could you assume that every broadcaster is going to have PSIP.

Steve


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Ron,
> 
> My DTC100 has an option called "Use online guides". As long as I don't turn this option on, the tuner ignores all PSIP information and does not try to remap any channels. Perhaps your tuner has a similar feature you could use until the PSIP data is corrected. That would allow you to tune the channels using the native channel numbers. I can't believe any manufacturer would build a tuner without this feature. No way could you assume that every broadcaster is going to have PSIP.
> 
> Steve*



What's interesting in now that WKYC is broadcasting this data, my Samsung SIR-T165's "guide" feature has become "alive". Unfortunately the receiver is kind of stupid in this regard and tries to fetch PSIP data from every other local channel in the same time slot you are looking at. This basically freezes the receiver while it looks for data and takes an agonizingly long time. It makes the guide for all practical purposes unusable until every local station broadcasts this data.


-- Paul


----------



## SteveC

Paul,

The problems you list are why I keep the feature turned off. I have not seen any advantage to using it.

Steve


----------



## handsworth

I can't find the news link right now, but Adelphia signed today with Disney. ESPN HD is on the way!!







It normally takes about 30 days to get the equipment in place. Also I don't know yet if they're going to place it on a pay tier or digital basic (free).


----------



## jtscherne

Here's the link:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...44&newsLang=en 


HOWEVER, Adelphia signed an agreement with HD Net in January and we still haven't seen anything from that one...


----------



## handsworth

Sorry, I forgot to mention that (HD net) is done. I don't have specific dates, but they tell me sometime between now and April 30. They're still working on the tier. Unlike D*TV and the other guy, we would like it to be free.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Sorry, I forgot to mention that (HD net) is done. I don't have specific dates, but they tell me sometime between now and April 30. They're still working on the tier. Unlike D*TV and the other guy, we would like it to be free.*



Any word on CBS, Fox or the HD PVR?


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## paule123

Talk about service, I emailed the Cleveland area manger for Wide Open West on Monday explaining my bandwidth problem with the new HD tier. By 3pm that day, the headend engineer emailed me and said he just bumped up the bandwidth for those channels, and sure enough it made a world of difference. DiscoveryHD and HDNet are both simply stunning now.


They were even going to roll a truck to my house the next day whenever *I* wanted them to be there to make sure things were fine at my house. I got a call from the head dispatcher saying he had received a hand written note from the manager and asked if I still needed the technician to show up. Don't ya love being a guinea pig, er, beta tester for all this HD stuff, LOL...


-- Paul


----------



## Shark73

Paul,


Do you know if WOW is considering adding INHD to the HD lineup?


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## joekelli

Has anyone tried the hack to get CBS on the Scientific atlantic boxes yet????? do you use channel 611 no matter what? When the super bowl was on i think it was channel 541. I want to watch the masters in hd soo bad!!!!!!!


----------



## Shark73

Who is your cable company? TWC?


I have Adelphia and we did not get the Super Bowl, as far as I know.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Paul,
> 
> 
> Do you know if WOW is considering adding INHD to the HD lineup?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jim*




The reply was "We are looking at other HD opportunities. No formal deals have been made yet. "


-- Paul


----------



## joekelli

Yes i have TWC. They actually cut a deal with cbs just for the superbowl. it was turned on a few hours before the game and then turn off shortly after. thats why i asked if the hack would work on the SA box. the signal is there somewhere??????????????????????


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Yeah, here's the thing about the hack...


The hack still works, technically, but I think someone over at TWC NEO got wind of this post, and shut the signal off. When you do the trick, it still brings-up a "channel" - as opposed to a "Not Authorized" or "Out of Range" comment like it will normally display on a channel not in the "official" line-up - but the "channel" is now a black screen. There's still something going on there, because the box will still "shift" you into 1080i mode and come-up with audio and video source "drivers" on 541...but you can't see or hear anything.


I keep checking it to see if anything comes back, and I'll definately let the forum know if anything changes.


As far as the SA boxes go...I assume the hack would work OK, because I imagine the channel numbers are the same. Channel 611 should be the diagnostic channel for both boxes, although I have no way to confirm or disprove that theory. If it's not 611 though, it's there somewhere. A quick way to find it is to go into the main settings mode (on the left of the remote), hit the triangle button to access "more settings" and go to the "favorite channels" option. Then, if you access that setting, a list of all channels available should pop-up. You should see a "DIAG" channel in the list somewhere...or something to that effect. That's your diagnostic channel. From there, you should be able to access 541...although right now there isn't much to access.


Anyway...hope that helps. War TWC adding ESPN-FRICKING-HD ASAP.


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Bump...we were getting buried there!


----------



## techweb

Subchannels 3-2 and 3-3 are now listed in the VOOM local channel guide. They can't be keyed in directly from the remote keypad because the remote has no hypen or period, but can be selected from the one-line or full guide.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Mostly for a bump. Page 10??


Anybody else with D* notice that 3-2 and 3-3 are now correctly shown in the APG with programming info? Sure is nice to see "Doppler Radar" instead of "Regular Programming" all the time.


----------



## Shark73

Didn't notice that, but I have those channels removed from my guide. Will look at them tonight.


----------



## Shark73

Anyone know when Adelphia will turn on the new HD channels? Based on reports out of Pittsburgh, Adelphia has turned on ESPN, INHD & INHD 2 already.


----------



## panjj

any word on Adelphia releasing the HD recorder? I would like to eliminate one of the boxes and have the option for HD recording. Thanks for any info.


----------



## panjj

bump


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *
> 
> Anybody else with D* notice that 3-2 and 3-3 are now correctly shown in the APG with programming info? Sure is nice to see "Doppler Radar" instead of "Regular Programming" all the time.*



I see the NBC digital channels showing up in the guide. It looks like 3-1 and 3-2 are exactly the same? What's up with that?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *I see the NBC digital channels showing up in the guide. It looks like 3-1 and 3-2 are exactly the same? What's up with that?*



3-1 is the HD channel, 3-2 is a SD digital channel. WKYC stretches all SD material as well.


----------



## Tom in OH

oh ok, thx. The HD symbol didn't light up on 3-1 because the signal isn't strong enough (yet). It will when the antenna gets up a little higher....


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *oh ok, thx. The HD symbol didn't light up on 3-1 because the signal isn't strong enough (yet). It will when the antenna gets up a little higher....*



Not sure what system or box you're using, but it's possible that the HD symbol didn't light up for you because 3-1 wasn't broadcasting any HD material at the time. My Sony HD-200 only shows the icon when the actual material is flagged as being HD in the guide. Frequently, however, the HD flag isn't set correctly by whomever inputs the guide data, and the HD icon won't light even though the material is in fact in HD. This happens on all HD channels, not just 3-1.


If you're able to get a picture on 3-1 at all, raising the antenna won't effect the HD symbol. Plus, if you're using a D* system, the guide data doesn't come from your antenna, it comes from the D* satellite stream.


----------



## Tom in OH

I'm using the Zenith HD-SAT520 (same as Shark73 until he got his HDTivo... grrrr - mine's not here yet.) I see what u mean about the HD symbol not showing up for non-HD shows. This came up originally because I couldn't tell any diff between ch. 3-1 and 3-2. But I think you're right, the HD symbol on 3-1 didn't show up at the time I looked because it wasn't an HD show.


----------



## rlockshin

Was watching WKYC 3-1 on Sunday night. Law and order. Numerous dropouts and I missed key parts of the conversation. Anyone else have this? A storm was approaching, but I was told weather should not affect digital coverage. Direct tv never went off during that time.

Thanks


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *Was watching WKYC 3-1 on Sunday night. Law and order. Numerous dropouts and I missed key parts of the conversation. Anyone else have this? A storm was approaching, but I was told weather should not affect digital coverage. Direct tv never went off during that time.
> 
> Thanks*



I've also noticed that 3-1 is particularly prone to dropouts during bad weather. I've always just assumed one of two things was going on. My first theory is that it's prone to atmospheric disruptions due to the fact that 3-1 actually broadcasts on NTSC Channel 2 -- the lowest VHF frequency you can get.


My other theory is that usually during bad weather the 3-3 radar channel has a lot of unusual activity. If you've ever tuned in during a bad weather episode, it's kind of fun since what we're seeing is actually the display of one of their main weather computers. You can watch the meteorologist move the mouse around and create various weather maps. There's not enough bandwidth on 3-3 to keep up, but it's fun to watch never the less. I'm wondering if just enough badwidth is being eaten up by the extraneous activity to cause drops on 3-1.


Of course if they would just drop 3-2, there should be plenty of bandwidth for both other channels.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Its the weather. It drops out for me on lightning strikes. Not usually just from rain though.


I get multipath issues when there is a lot of wind and the trees are blowin on Fox 8. Thats not their fault, its mine cuz of the location, but it still sucks.


Mike


----------



## panjj

I asked adelphia some more questions on status of HD update and received the following:


HD DVR on the way but no date given.

Still in negotiations with other HD channels (discovery, espn, CBS, etc.) with no date given.


Not looking good, especially with position taken by stockholders to sell assets.


Anyone hear anything different?


----------



## rlockshin

Adelphia is my cable company and I use Direct TV. I have Adelphia basic and the picture and sound , dolby digital on some movie stations blowas Adelphia away. Drop them and go satellite, you will not be sorry


----------



## ParsonsBri

I also talked to adelphia and got similar info.

- No word on additional channels

- No word on PVR


If they were moving any slower they'd be going backwards.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Again, mostly for a bump.


But has anyone used Armstrong Cable in Medina for HD? Apparently they have an HD PVR available. They also have a dish buyback program which will credit your account for 6 months of the cable bill if you turn in your equipment (they can have my SD boxes, but I'd hide my HD receiver!)


I'm a D* subscriber, but I may think about moving if I hear from anyone that Armstrong is OK.


----------



## panjj

Here is the official response I got back from Adelphia:


"The HD DVR should be available in the next few months. We already have some models in our possession that are being tested. Starz HD was added in March. HD Movies and HD Net will be added May 12th. If you would like more information about these new channels go to www.hd.net. Negotiations are continuing for more HD channels."


Prompt response actually--here's hoping CBS is next.


----------



## Rbuchina

I have been receiving FOX (031) for the last few weeks after not being able to tune it in with my Dish 6000 for several months. I've had the 6000 for around 20 months now and initially received FOX without any problems. I talked to John (Engineer at FOX) a few weeks ago and he claimed they had not changed their transmission. I also spoke to a Dish rep who said that nothing had changed on the Dish 6000 receiver. So its a mystery to me why I finally receive FOX now.


Now my biggest problem is with WKYC (003-01). The signal is weak and yields a continues stream of drop-outs.


Ray


----------



## Dweezilz

I can't pull in NBC out here in Twinsburg very well at all. Same issues you have. Some days it's ok, but most days I can't pull it in at all.


On another note, can anyone with a Dish 811 confirm that their 5.1 surround sound on CBS shows such as CSI Miami works properly? Early in the 811 production, they had an issue with some OTA channels producing only left channel sound through all 5 speakers, but software updates have fixed the issues according to Dish. Unfortuately, it hasn't fixed my 811. The strange thing is that sometimes it's fine & sometimes it's not. Last week CSI Miami was ok, last night it wasn't.


-Todd


----------



## Ilya

Has WEAO (PBS) Akron started broacasting in digital? According to Antennaweb.org it's already on (?!!)


Any updates on WVIZ (PBS) Cleveland?


----------



## Bizily

I've been receiving HD OTA for a couple of years now and I've been waiting for the HD PVR's to come out. I hear that the D* unit (HR10-250) is available and I was wondering if any of you local guys had one. I'm looking for any feedback on the unit and advice on how to go about ordering it and the service. Thanks in advance.


-Jim


----------



## gnalmij

I've had my HR10-250 on order from Value Electronics since early February, and it's rumored to be shipping sometime next week. I think a few folks have one locally, such as "Tom in OH"?

The AVS forum on "HDTV Tivo Powered PVRs" is the central repository for all threads on the HR10-250. There are threads for availability of this box from various distributors and from Circuit City and Best Buy. A few folks even wrote code to refresh the Circuit City website every 15 seconds so that they know when CC has more boxes in stock. CC appears to be getting small shipments of 20-50 boxes, at which time they change their website to show availability. They are snapped up very quickly.

Best of luck.


----------



## Tom in OH

Hi Jim,


I have the HR10-250 on preorder at SolidSignal and should be receiving it within the next week or so. Some people have had great luck ordering from CircuitCity.com. You might wanna try there or call your local CC and see if they have any in stock. If you're not a D* customer yet, they might throw in the dish and installation.


----------



## Tom in OH

Hi gnalmij, (or is it Jim Lang),


great minds think alike... ^_^


----------



## Shark73

Jim,


I have had the HD-TiVo since the first shipment from Value Electronics. Sometime around April 20th. So far everything has been fine with the unit, but I have had a few recordings from HDNet that had sound for a while then went dead. OTA reception seems to be close to my old Zenith 520, however, I can't get NBC to lock in. I'm about 8 miles from the towers, but use an indoor antenna for local OTA HD. I'm sure if you had a better antenna that NBC wouldn't be a problem.


As far as advice on ordering, you may want to check out the HD TiVo thread. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...?s=&forumid=36 


Many stores are getting them in but many have pre-order lists already which need to be filled prior to new orders. CC is the only store not taking pre-orders, so you should try them or their website.


If you are new to D* consider going with Value Electronics and getting an SD TiVo package, then order the HD TiVo on its own. Whatever you do make sure you tell them to upgrade you to the phase III dish so you can get the HD channels because you will be ordering the HD TiVo.


If you need more info let me know.


Jim


----------



## Shark73

Looks like Adelphia finally added HDNet and HDNet Movies. Still waiting for more locals and INHD.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yep they popped up last night (that's when I noticed them). Also, didn't they sign a contract with ESPN-HD as well a few months ago?


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Another bump...


I saw a response from Adelphia that basically said the local CBS is not owned by Viacom, making negotiations tougher. Of course, this didn't seem to stop WOW from getting them signed up right away!


News releases show Adelphia signing national agreements with ESPN-HD and inHD, so we can only hope that these will get on-air quicker than HDNet; that agreement was signed back in January!!!


----------



## Dweezilz

I compared HDnet on Adelphia & Dish Network. The Adelphia PQ is very close, but was not as good as Dish. I could see more grain, slightly less sharp picture & the colors, like in my Network vs. OTA comparison, seemed a bit over saturated. Once I adjusted the color down for Adelphia, it was better, yet Dish was slightly sharper with virtually no grain.


I guess for convenience & price, Adelphia is just fine, but in a perfect world, if you are going for the best PQ you can get, Dish still wins (and prob. DirectTV too). If they ever add CBS it's definately a hassle free alternative, with PQ that's very close, but the perfectionist in me would still want the better PQ via Sat. service even if it's just a touch better.


-T


----------



## ParsonsBri

Dweezilz: I am not happy with the quality of the Adelphia HD PQ at all. Compared to OTA through my Zenith SATD520, it lacks considerably. Watched the Preakness on Saturday and in flipping back and forth, I saw a significant improvement with OTA. My only reason for even considering Adelphia was the potential for an HD PVR at way below the $1000 D* investment. I have 3 of the sd D* TiVo's and love them, but it's time to move to HD. I dont know why I am holding out for Adelphia to get something right. I think I am going to just bite the bullet on the HD TiVo and be done with it. Adelphia could be the worst cable company in the country.


----------



## Dweezilz

While I do probably agree Adelphia is the worst & while I think while there are many that are considerably better, most of the cable companies have serious issues with performance and customer service & most seem to have people complaining. I hear people complaining about Comcast quite a bit as well. No channels, poor PQ, bad customer service, shoddy equipment, etc...


I can tell you from personal experience that my dealings with Dish Network & Direct TV have not been much better either on the customer service side of things. I think I've been more pissed off at Dish Network than I have with Adelphia if you can believe that!!! You want to see a company that is totally clueless, I'd surely recommend looking at Dish Network! ha!! My Aunt & Uncle in Albuquerque had DirectTV come out to hook up a new HD box for them. Do you think the installer hooked it up to their HD input with componant cables? Of course not. Coax only!! They aren't technically inclined so they had to hire someone who charged $200 to set them up. Nice job Direct TV!


All are terrible it seems which is a sad commentary on the industry in general.


That said, I don't find the Adelphia picture as terrible as you do really, but certainly not as good as OTA or Dish or DirectTV. I can tell the difference side by side, but again, if I couldn't compare side to side, it would be acceptable & would be for most people. It's easy & basically free (for now) so it's difficult to complain. For me it's not acceptable PQ because I know what the best looks like & I always need to have the best PQ I can afford to get, but for most I'd think it would be just fine. It's not like it's clearly bad so to speak so I don't want to give people the wrong impression. It's actually good, but not as good as Sat. or OTA. I wonder if Comcast, TM or WOW looks any better than Adelphia? (not that they are available in Twinsburg)


-T


----------



## paule123

Adelphia users - you guys should complain loudly and see if you can get to any sort of district/area manager and possibly engineering - Adelphia may not be allocating enough bandwidth to those channels.


When I complained about PQ to Wide Open West shortly after they launched their new HD channels their engineering guys allocated more bandwidth and all is well now. The funny part is that I seemed to be the only "perfectionist" that noted the problem, nobody else in the Cleveland area apparently complained, probably shrugged their shoulders and thought the HD they were watching was "good enough".



-- Paul


----------



## Dweezilz

Well, I am one of those perfectionists & I guess I could complain if I thought it would do any good. It doesn't really bother me that much though. Again, the PQ is not even close to what I'd consider 'bad' & I have a very good eye for this stuff. 'Good Enough' makes it sound like it's crap, but to the novice or inexperienced, it's good enough. Not the case really here. It's just ever so slightly worse than OTA/Dish, but still good. I guess a complaint might do something, but I seriously doubt it. After all, it's Adelphia we are talking about here!










I would guess that comparing any cable HD vs. OTA would produce slightly worse results for the cable PQ. Just a guess.


-Todd


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

I've sent the following Email to TWC NEO. Hopefully we can get some much-awaited answers!!! (Not.)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm curious about a couple of things...


1. When is TWCNEO going to add TNT-HD? Other TWC divisions are (or have already) added this channel, and now with Dish Network announcing the addition of TNT-HD to their line-up...to go along with another killer-ap ESPN HD...when is this division of TWC going to do the same? I have to say - Dish is looking like a very attractive way to spend my $130 a month for TV service with this addition if it's going to be a long-time before we get TNT in this market. Do you have a date for this addition?


2. WOIO-HD is the only local network affiliate lacking a carriage agreement with this division of TWC. When...finally...will this be resolved? I know that's some of the blame (maybe even most of it) falls on Raycom, but enough is enough. CBS is one of the leaders in HDTV and it's very frustrating to watch all my friends with Dish and Direct TV tout the great HD programming they are enjoying with their HD antennas supplied by the sat. companies, while I...trying to spread the word about the good merits of cable HD to them...am unable to enjoy such a thrill, and am forced to listen to "We are negotiating" time after time after time...


I guess it boils down to this. I am a loyal TWC subscriber. I am, overall, happy with my service. But to be honest, HDTV is really the only thing that matters to me at this point as far as television goes. I have no interest in standard def. services or channels...but I am willing to spend a lot of money to get HDTV, as my monthly cable bills should reflect. I don't really WANT a satellite, but I have to say, Dish Network's package is pretty attractive right now with the addition of TNT-HD and already having ESPN HD and the ability go get WOIO-HD through antenna.


I know ESPN HD is a corporate thing, and I'm not to terribly concerned with that until football season. But I am concerned about TNT-HD and CBS-HD. If these are coming very soon...I'll stay with TWC. If it is unknown when these are coming, then I'm afraid I may have to take my $130 and my future HD PVR subscription elsewhere.


I'm not trying to be one of those "Gimme this or else!" customers...I'm just laying the facts on the table and hoping you can help me make a decision.


(For what it's worth..I'll still keep Road Runner.)


Thank you for reading, and I await your answers.


Daniel Zaleski

Phone - EDIT



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wish me luck!!!


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

The response...



-------------------------------------------


Mr. Zaleski:


Thank you for your recent email. We appreciate your loyalty as a customer.


I can tell you that we will be adding TNT HD by the end of this week. I believe the channel location will be 947, but I'm not 100% certain. If something changes, I'll let you know.


As far as CBS and ESPN is concerned, I'll check on getting an update from our marketing department.


Believe me I know where you are coming from, I'm an HDTV owner myself and football is my favorite sport.


Time Warner Cable

dra


ps - I did hear that ABC will be doing the NBA finals in HD and TNT will be doing the conference finals in HD



-----------------------------------------------------



Better than usual. Hope what "dra" says is true, and we WILL have TNT-HD by Friday!


----------



## paule123

Is anybody else in Cleveland with DirecTV been having problems lately with FSN / Indians games? For the past couple weeks I've been having trouble getting really pixelated picture or nothing at all. I tweaked the dish today to get a little better signal strength, but it's not helping. All the other channels are fine, it seems to be the Fox Sports block that's giving me trouble. I can't figure out which transponder they are on, when I click over to the installation/tuning menu, the transponder number is always different.


-- Paul


----------



## AkronGuy

TNT HD is now on TWC on channel 547. The Lakers vs. Timberwolfs game just finished. Looked beautiful.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Is anybody else in Cleveland with DirecTV been having problems lately with FSN / Indians games? For the past couple weeks I've been having trouble getting really pixelated picture or nothing at all. I tweaked the dish today to get a little better signal strength, but it's not helping. All the other channels are fine, it seems to be the Fox Sports block that's giving me trouble. I can't figure out which transponder they are on, when I click over to the installation/tuning menu, the transponder number is always different.
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



I haven't watched FSN since the Bluejackets' season ended, but I'll check it out. FSN on D* has always been pretty bad, though. The amount of compression is ridiculous.


But now that I know there's somebody else here with D*, let me ask you a question. Do you see a faint greenish line that comes and goes running vertically through the center of the screen on Channel 8's D* feed? I've noticed it for the past year or so, but I've never been able to confirm if it was just me or if other's got it as well.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Do you see a faint greenish line that comes and goes running vertically through the center of the screen on Channel 8's D* feed? I've noticed it for the past year or so, but I've never been able to confirm if it was just me or if other's got it as well.*



I haven't seen the faint greenish line on D* channel 8. Doesn't sound good though. Do u have an ota antenna? Just wondering if u see the greenish line on Fox 8(analog) or 8-1(digital).


----------



## ZManCartFan

Yes, I have an ota antenna, and no, I don't see it on the analog channel or 8-1. It's only the D* feed of channel 8. The line takes up maybe 10-15% of the screen, so it's not that small. But, then again, it's not that big either.


Overall, the colors on the D* feed are pretty off. The blonde news lady's hair is often greenish.


And this is the only channel I have an issue with. I suspect it's in the feed sent to D* from Channel 8, so I'm not that concerned. I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed it.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *But now that I know there's somebody else here with D*, let me ask you a question. Do you see a faint greenish line that comes and goes running vertically through the center of the screen on Channel 8's D* feed? I've noticed it for the past year or so, but I've never been able to confirm if it was just me or if other's got it as well.*



Sorry, have not noticed a greenish line....


-- Paul


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Sorry, have not noticed a greenish line....
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



Hmm. I wonder what it could be? I wouldn't think the HD box would be getting interference from the OTA analog feed. It's smart enough to remap all of the D* feeds which are coming through on different signals anyway. It's not that big of a deal, but it's definitely noticeable. Maybe I'll start sweating if/when it happens on another channel.


Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Hmm. I wonder what it could be? I wouldn't think the HD box would be getting interference from the OTA analog feed. It's smart enough to remap all of the D* feeds which are coming through on different signals anyway. It's not that big of a deal, but it's definitely noticeable. Maybe I'll start sweating if/when it happens on another channel.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.*



Maybe I misunderstood - my D* setup is standard, not HD, using the basic "silver" Hughes STB. So I am saying I have no problem with the analog Fox 8 feed. I don't know about the digital Fox 8 feed via D* (is there one?)...


Just to clarify, I've got a basic D* analog setup at the office (where there is no cable), Wide Open West HD cable service at home, and OTA at home via Sammy T165.


-- Paul


----------



## Tom in OH

The digital Fox 8 feed (channel 8-1) comes from an ota antenna and is 480P(soon to be 720P this Fall). The greenish line ZManCartFan has is coming from Cleveland's DirecTv feed of Fox 8 (digital 480i).


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *The greenish line ZManCartFan has is coming from Cleveland's DirecTv feed of Fox 8 (digital 480i).*



This is correct. I have no such greenish line on the ota digital (8-1) or analog (8) channels. It's only the DirecTV channel 8 that shows the line.


----------



## Rbuchina

My reception of wkyc (digital) has been poor lately and I also cannot receive FOX (Digital) again.


----------



## Ben Music

Hi Group,

Here is some news you might want to check out. Digital FOX CH8 went out late last night on Comcast and was still dark this AM. I sent a e-mail to the headtech to let him know. When he checked in to it he sent a reply saying that they switched over last night from the 480P ED service, to the new 720P HD service.


I just thought I would give you all a heads up in case this was true.


Ben Music


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ben Music_
> *Hi Group,
> 
> Here is some news you might want to check out. Digital FOX CH8 went out late last night on Comcast and was still dark this AM. I sent a e-mail to the headtech to let him know. When he checked in to it he sent a reply saying that they switched over last night from the 480P ED service, to the new 720P HD service.
> 
> 
> I just thought I would give you all a heads up in case this was true.
> 
> 
> Ben Music*



wow, that's interesting. I've been hearing Fox would switch to 720p this Fall. I wonder if this applies to the Fox digital via ota as well?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I'll confirm Fox 31 as broadcasting at an HD resolution over the air. I only turned it on for a second to check if the info said HD or SD, but the picture looked slightly different. Still using the crappy zoom/stretch mode on non network programming.


This is good news, in case any summer sporting events like the Pepsi 400 or MLB All Star game are in 720p instead of just widescreen.


----------



## Bizily

I ordered the HR10-250 from Value Electronics last week and signed up for DirecTV. The DirecTV install went fairly well and I've been enjoying programing that I didn't have with standard cable, such as TechTV and Discovery Wings.


I hooked up my old standalone TiVo to the SAT receiver using the external IR control, which works fine, but I'm really getting anxious to get my hands on the HR10-250. Value Electronics can't give me a reliable ETA for the unit. So, I spent some time browsing EBay and did find a few units on sale there. But I'm really nervous about using EBay for a purchase of this amount.


I've heard that some people are having success at CircuitCity and Best Buy. Is this true? I checked CircuitCity.com and it doesn't even list the unit. I also called a local store in Mentor, but they have yet to have any. Do any of you local guys know of a reliable place where I can get one of these units now? If not, I guess I'll just have to wait for VE.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

the new image on Fox 8 looks like a DVD with bad edge enhancement. hopefully they work on it a bit.


----------



## JJL

I have a Hughes HD Directv box and I am having trouble getting a strong signal all of a sudden. I didn't have the box on for a few days and now I cannot get a digital picture from 3 or 19. They both have been fine since I hooked it up in January. Any one have any clues? I have the cable from the antenna running straight to the HD box at the moment which is an improvement over the way the installer had it running but I still am unable to pull in 3 and 19. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Tom in OH

Every once in a while these same two stations (3 and 19) have trouble getting through. I suspect it has a lot to do with weather conditions because sometimes they come in perfectly although never the same signal strength as the other three (8, 5, 43). Channels 3 and 19 also output the lowest power compared to the others.


According to one source channel 3 is 8 Kw and 19 is only 3.5 Kw. Channels 8, 5, & 43 are 625Kw, 870Kw, and 200Kw.


It's also possible the station turns off the signal for some reason. One time I lost 43 completely and an hour later is was back full power.


JJL - is it possible your antenna moved with some of those strong winds a couple weeks ago?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

well 3 and 19 are on VHF. and in a perfect world, we wouldnt have HD on a VHF network.


----------



## Tom in OH

That's true, 3 and 19 are VHF (digital positions 2 and 10). It's supposedly easier for VHF signals to be sent the same distance with less power which is probably why these two are lower power than their UHF counterparts. But still, these are the two channels that a lot of people have trouble receiving at various times. A little more output power might solve the problem for many viewers.


----------



## JJL

Well after some more testing I have decided it must be the Hughes box. The antenna is in the attic, and I split the signal one going to the HD box and the other going directly to the tv, the signal to the tv is perfect but the normal tv signal going to the tv throught the HD box is very fuzzy. So I am going to contact Hughes tomorrow and hopefully things will get taken care of quickly. Has anyone had trouble with their Hughes HD box? Should I contact Directv about this since I bought it through them 5 months ago?


Thanks.


----------



## oldavnut

I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.

I really appreciate your advices.

1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?

2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?

3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?

4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?

Thank you in advance.


Chanho


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by JJL_
> *Should I contact Directv about this since I bought it through them 5 months ago?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Hi JJL,

I'm not sure what DirecTv will do since it's been 5 months, but it sure would be worth a call. They've been pretty good about helping people lately hoping to keep them happy customers due to the competition. Thank goodness for competition. ^_^


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
> 
> I really appreciate your advices.
> 
> 1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
> 
> 2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
> 
> 3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
> 
> 4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> 
> Chanho*



You should consider Wide Open West cable if they are available in your area. www.wowway.com They are offering a lot more HD at the moment than Adelphia. They use the Scientific-Atlanta 3250HD box with component outs, s-video and composite. DVI and Firewire outs are not enabled yet. Coax, optical, and RCA audio out.


Component out is awesome for HD viewing although the people who have DVI capability say it is even better.


-- Paul (a very satisfied WOW customer







)


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
> 
> I really appreciate your advices.
> 
> 1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
> 
> 2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
> 
> 3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
> 
> 4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
> *



1) A satellite provider may offer you more HD channels, but probably won't get you better reception. Personally, I've stuck with Adelphia so far, though the other services are tempting. Adelphia is adding more HD content, but they are moving VERY slowly.

2) Adelphia uses the SA 3250HD with composite, S-Video, component, and DVI. The SA firmware seems to still have some problems in the DVI area, but component seems to give equally good results so I'm willing to wait while SA gets the problems solved.

3) Component will always be better than the other analog methods. DVI and other digital connections may be better yet, though I don't see any real difference in my configuration.

4) I think the satellite receivers tend to sell in the $400 to $500 range, but it really depends on what unit and service you buy. If you're serious about them, call the vendor and ask. I get emails from VOOM about every two weeks hawking their stuff, and I'm sure Dish and Direct are just as aggressive.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

So does anyone have any new news on our local stations?


1) Fox8 seems to have started transmitting some HD, at least occasionally. So at least we know that the local affiliate has the hardware in place. Now they just need some content. (....boy do they need some content... regardless of whether or not it's HD....)


2) WUAB seems to be able to broadcast HD when it comes that way over the satellite, but they apparently have no ability to store the HD content for later. I base this on the fact that Enterprise is regularly in HD on Wednesday, but never on Saturday.


3) WB55 is listed at AntennaWeb.org as going live on July 4th. I'll believe it when I see it. It would be good to see it happen, though - Gilmore Girls and Everwood in HD would go a long way toward convincing my kids that the HD set was a good investment.


4) WVIZ has dropped off the AntennaWeb.org listing entirely. It looks like they're in for a long battle of some sort to get their signal on the air. I don't know if they're still fighting with Viacom, or whether they've begun to look for a new tower for their transmitter.


Anyone know anything more on any of these fronts?


Adelphia has finally added HDNet, and I've been enjoying it more than I thought I would. The Alison Krauss concert yesterday was great, so was the Sheryl Crow that came after it. Soccer seems to be a lot more interesting to watch than hockey or basketball. And those Swimsuit model shows have been very enjoyable .


Also, a couple of the Thursday night dramas on HDNet were pretty good, especially Odyssey 5. Was that on some other network at one time? I've never heard of it before.


On the other hand, HDNet Movies might as well be called "The Home of the Two-Star Movies". I haven't seen anything there worth watching.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *On the other hand, HDNet Movies might as well be called "The Home of the Two-Star Movies". I haven't seen anything there worth watching.*



I'd have to agree there's not much there on HDNet Movies, but I did get a kick out of seeing Chuck Norris in "Code of Silence" redone in HD. I've seen that movie more times than I care to admit, but in HD the Chicago scenery really looks great.


Discovery HD is very addictive. Every time I flip past that channel I end up getting stuck there for a while. Tonight they had a Travel Channel show on "World's Best Beach Resorts". The images were stunning. Hmmm.. Mexico? French Riviera? Seychelles? If the cable box took reservations, my hotel and flight would be booked tonight....



-- Paul


----------



## oldavnut

Thanks guys for the advices.


I'll wait and watch for a while this rapidly evolving field. Probably, I'll make up my mind before football season start. WOW seems to have better packages but I do not want to go through hassles of changing now.

Thank you again.


Chanho


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *That's true, 3 and 19 are VHF (digital positions 2 and 10). It's supposedly easier for VHF signals to be sent the same distance with less power which is probably why these two are lower power than their UHF counterparts. But still, these are the two channels that a lot of people have trouble receiving at various times. A little more output power might solve the problem for many viewers.*



One of the reasons 19 is lower power is because it's using channel 10 digital, which has multipath issues with Detroit's channel 10. From what I've read, this is the reason they can't increase their power. They have tried to get the FCC to allocate a different slot to no avail. As for UHF vs. VHF, the vast majority of digital stations across the country are UHF not VHF. I don't know the technical reasonings, but it's always been my experience that UHF is far easier to pull in. This adds to the issues with having 2 & 10 as digial channels. I can't say you are wrong about the distance vs. power factor, but it seems to go against my experiences & also against where most digital channels are slotted.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
> 
> I really appreciate your advices.
> 
> 1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
> 
> 2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
> 
> 3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
> 
> 4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> 
> Chanho*



Sorry to come in late on this, but here's a few other things. I have both Dish Network & Adelphia HDTV.


Adelphia has HBO, Showtime, Starz, HDnet, HDnet Movies, ABC & NBC digital (HD) stations.


Dish Network has HBO, Showtime, TNT, Discovery, ESPN, HDnet, HDnet Movies and for some with no local OTA, CBS.


People are griping about Adelphia's offerings, yet look at it compared to Dish Network. It's not that different, plus they have one the other Sats. do not have. DirectTV is about the same.


Now comparing costs, the HDTV package on Dish Network is $9.99 per month or about $8 a month if pre-paid. They allow you to purchase JUST that package plus a $5 fee. DirectTV won't allow that as you have to have one of their main packages I believe. There are varying deals for the receiver, but I think all involve commitments for total package programming. Otherwise, the price is $399 for the 811 receiver.


Adelphia's HD box is about $3 or $4 per month more than their digital box, but with nothing to pay for. Their programming thus far, is free.


As far as picture quality, it's a mixed bag. On Dish, all the channels look spectacular. The locals need to be pulled in via antenna OTA which can be an issue. I don't have a large roof antenna so getting NBC can be an issue.

The majority of the time, the signal is weak & it's about 70% of the time that I can't get it in.


Adelphia's PQ on the non-local channels is very good, although depending on the day, I can sometimes see slightly less clairity when compared to Dish Network. When I compare HDnet on both, Dish seems just slightly sharper at times but often times it difficult to see any difference. It depends on what's being broadcast. The Adelphia version is very much acceptable however & depending on the program that on, it's hard to tell the difference much of the time. The local OTA channels seem sharper to me than Adelphia's version. It's not by much, but OTA via the Dish box seems to produce a slightly sharper image. This makes some sense of course considering that I'm pulling the signal in directly, where Adelphia needs to bring the signal in then pipe it through their cable. There is some loss I think with any cable based locals. Hard to prove either way really aside from what I can see with my own eyes.


So that's the basic rundown. At this point, I'm paying $8 per month on Dish to get Discovery, TNT-HD, & ESPN-hd. I also get the other OTA's that Adelphia doesn't have via the Dish receiver. The rest is on Adelphia.


Again, I think that while adelphia has moved slow, in many ways they are being unfairly bashed as far as HD goes. I'd rate both Adelphia's & Dish's customer service as a toss-up...both are terrible. And...before anyone comments, I'm certainly no fan of Adelphia in general as a company, it's just that as far as their HD goes, at this point, they aren't doing as poorly as it seems. I know people see Adelphia as the 'evil cable company', but I've been shafted more times by Dish Network than Adelphia over the years to tell ya the truth. If WOW was an option in Twinsburg, I'd consider looking into that as well. Voom has too many missing SD-Channels at this point for me to consider it viable. Plus they are missing several key HD channels even with their huge HD offerings.


Hope that helps.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

As for bashing Adelphia, all I'm asking for is information. The company doesn't seem to want to let anyone know what is going on. It took four months for HD Net to appear, even though the contract was announced in January. When are we getting ESPN and inHD, since those contracts have been signed too? What about locals? Why can Wide Open West offer CBS and Fox, but Adelphia can't? Fox is about to roll out HD, so we obviously want it too.


Sorry if this sounds like bashing, but I don't think customer communications is a minor part of doing business.


----------



## Dweezilz

Well, come on now... We KNOW what to expect & the constant griping about it was all I'm talking about. Try calling DirectTV & get info on what programming is coming. You won't get a straight answer. Try calling Dish...same deal. How about all the people with Time Warner trying to figure out what the situation with CBS was days before the Super Bowl? The point is, none of these companies is much different as far as customer service goes. They are ALL LACKING although some worse than others.


Also, please please please don't insinuate that I said something I did not. I NEVER said customer communications was a minor part of doing business. Nothing will irritate me more than people putting words into my mouth or wording their posts to sound like I implied something I did not. All I'm saying is that most of them are bad on that level & in no way was I defending Adelphia. Why can't TWC get CBS? Why can't Adelphia? They say strong contract negociations. Who knows, but all I can say is, take what we have, and wait an see. I could see being pissed off if they charged $10 per month for the channels, but they don't. It's free & we are contantly complaining about their content. Take it for what it is & chalk the rest up to typical giant corporation & typical crappy customer service. How did I just know that someone would have to respond in this way? HA! I was trying to give comparisons...end of story & don't infer anything else from my post.


Enough about it.


----------



## jtscherne

The last time I looked, I AM paying extra for HD, even if it's for the box. I never said you insinuated anything. I was stating what was important TO ME, since I've regularly complained here.


Just because this is the way companies do business doesn't mean I should accept it without complaint. In addition, cable companies have added responsibility since they are a public utility, although that's pretty much of a joke if you've ever tried to deal with a city cable board.


Anyway, the person asked for opinions about Adelphia, so I decided to include my opinion, so that's where I'll end it.


----------



## paule123

Dweezilz,

I was probably hard on Adelphia mainly because ESPNHD and CBSHD are missing, and for football fans, that meant no Sunday Night Football or CBS HD coverage on Sunday. and no Super Bowl...


I don't think WOW explains it real well on their website, but for the monthly cost of $6.99 for the SA 3250HD box, you get HD ABC,CBS,NBC, Fox and StarzHD. If you pay for the premium channels, MaxHD and HBOHD are available. For some reason they do not have ShoHD even though they carry the other Showtimes.


For an additional $9.99/mo for the "HD Pak" you get HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD. No TNTHD yet.


Digital Basic service is $50.99/mo in addition to the above. They include the Starz SuperPak "free" with all digital cable packages.


Customer service I would rate very good. The couple times I had HD channel issues, I was connected with an "HD specialist", I talked to the same girl twice on succeeding Saturdays.


If an HD DVR is important to you, a WOW CSR told me they had no immediate plans for that. I beleive Adelphia has one or soon to roll one out.


I priced it out for a friend that subscribes to all the Adelphia premium channels and I think WOW came in about the same, WOW being a couple bucks more a month as I recall.



-- Paul


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *The last time I looked, I AM paying extra for HD, even if it's for the box. I never said you insinuated anything. I was stating what was important TO ME, since I've regularly complained here.
> 
> 
> Just because this is the way companies do business doesn't mean I should accept it without complaint. In addition, cable companies have added responsibility since they are a public utility, although that's pretty much of a joke if you've ever tried to deal with a city cable board.
> 
> 
> Anyway, the person asked for opinions about Adelphia, so I decided to include my opinion, so that's where I'll end it.*



WOW, this converation has taken a turn for the worse & from my original intent because of your interpretations here. I never said one thing about their good customer service. Your post implies you were upset by my posts support of Adelphia, which somehow infrindged on your right to complain. You said "all I wanted was an answer...etc...etc..." as if I said you were wrong about complaining. Re-read what I wrote. In fact, I mention their bad customer service, yet you still go on as if I was lauding them as being good on that end. I was talking about their CONTENT which isn't that bad...that's all I said. And at the cost of what they are charging, it's hard to be so upset. You are arguing something that's not there. You're arguing customer service & communications, which was never even part of the point I was making! Seriously...take them time, re-read what I said, then you'll see that I said they were terrible as far as customer service. What more did I have to say to avoid your rath? Your posts are out of the blue & extreme. Certainly anyone has their right to give their opinion which is why I gave mine. It's not what you made it to be. And, I'm telling you the truth that I've had more issues with Dish's customer service. It's a fact, however it doesn't mean that Adelphia's customer service was good...it's horrible like I said originally.


As far as costs, So you are paying an extra $4 for the box...with no hardware to buy & no other cost for the service. Voom rents the box for $10 per month or you fork out $600. Dish charges $400 for the box plus $10 per moth for the HD in addition to another $5 service fee. The price comparison I made is valid thus, the content by comparison is free. My advice to you would be to drop Adelphia if you hate it so much. Forget paying $4 for the box & getting free HDTV since it's only a few free channels. It's obvious that's what you should do and nobody is stopping you. If you've done that already, that great, more power to you & I hope you enjoy whatever service you choose. Everyone appreciates your comments about Adelphia's communication issues, but it doesn't mean I can't say they did well on other fronts in comparison to Dish.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Dweezilz,
> 
> I was probably hard on Adelphia mainly because ESPNHD and CBSHD are missing, and for football fans, that meant no Sunday Night Football or CBS HD coverage on Sunday. and no Super Bowl...
> 
> 
> I don't think WOW explains it real well on their website, but for the monthly cost of $6.99 for the SA 3250HD box, you get HD ABC,CBS,NBC, Fox and StarzHD. If you pay for the premium channels, MaxHD and HBOHD are available. For some reason they do not have ShoHD even though they carry the other Showtimes.
> 
> 
> For an additional $9.99/mo for the "HD Pak" you get HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD. No TNTHD yet.
> 
> 
> Digital Basic service is $50.99/mo in addition to the above. They include the Starz SuperPak "free" with all digital cable packages.
> 
> 
> Customer service I would rate very good. The couple times I had HD channel issues, I was connected with an "HD specialist", I talked to the same girl twice on succeeding Saturdays.
> 
> 
> If an HD DVR is important to you, a WOW CSR told me they had no immediate plans for that. I beleive Adelphia has one or soon to roll one out.
> 
> 
> I priced it out for a friend that subscribes to all the Adelphia premium channels and I think WOW came in about the same, WOW being a couple bucks more a month as I recall.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



No problem at all. I understand & I'm appreciative of your calm & nice post here. Adelphia certainly isn't the leader of the pack by any stretch of the imagination, but for $4 & little effort, it's fine for what it is. An example is my buddy who purchaesd his first HDTV a few months ago. He really isn't interested at this point in paying to switch from Adelphia, so since he already has it, for the money, it ok for him. For those seriously into HD right now & want the most content, it's not a full solution at this point. That's why I have Dish Network as well. I'm sure at this point, WOW is certainly better than Adelphia. It's not an option for me so that takes care of that. It's why I specifically mention WOW at the end of my post & why I don't contend that I know much about it. I posted what I do know which was a comparison between Dish Network & Adelphia. That's all...nothing more, nothing less. People seem to get carried away with this at times. I know everyone's anxious for the best content at the best price, but we act as if it's life or death sometimes & it's really not. I don't get worked up about Adelphia because sadly, I've learned that my expectations should be very very low, so all they can do is suprise me with better. Sad to say, that's the way most large corporations seem to operate these days. All that we can do is read each post, take in what they are actually saying, anlalyze things for what they are, & then do what we feel is best. It's not personal at all so bickering is just silly (I know you weren't).


I agree with you about ESPN-HD & CBS. I'm a huge football fan & it would be easier just to use 1 service. I wish Adelphia would get it, but I'm not going go into depression if they don't. I think people have several other options if that's the make or break & all's good for everyone if they are willing to pay. Not that it's that great, but I do get Starz HD on Adelphia which I can't on Dish. So they got that goin' for them. HA!!










Anyway, you & I can keep our fingers crossed on Adelphia & until then, I'll have to deal with Dish Network & two services for a while longer. By the way, the basketball games looked KILLER on TNT-HD! Might have to keep Dish after all!!










-Todd


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
> 
> I really appreciate your advices.
> 
> 1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
> 
> 4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
> *



oldavnut,


I am a former Adelphia customer. I've been waiting for them to roll-out HD for a long time. When they finally did at the end of last year - it was a joke! 4 channels, including 2 local and 2 premium channels.


I dropped Adelphia, went with VOOM and never looked back! Today VOOM offers 36 HD channels via satellite + all OTA HD channels you can get in your area.


If you lease, you pay $9.50 a month for equipment, which consists of the HD STB (with HD OTA tuner!), the remote, the dish, the OTA antenna and all the cables, even DVI! HD-DVR is not yet available, but is already announced and is expected later this year.


The programming costs $39.90 a month. This basic package includes 25 HD channels like TNT-HD, Discovery HD Theater, Bravo HD+, ESPN-HD, and 21 more HD channels exclusive to VOOM. I don't list SD channels, as I rarely watch them now (honest!)


If you want premium channels you can get: HBO-HD East, HBO-HD West, Cinemax HD East, Cinemax HD West, SHOWTIME HD East, SHOWTIME HD West, TMC HD, STARZ! HD East, STARZ! HD West and Encore HD. The all-inclusive VaVaVoom package is $79.90 a month, or you can choose a 9-channel premium pack for $14.90 a month, each including 2 or 3 premium HD channels.


For additional $14.90 a month you can also add Playboy Hot HD, if your wife will let you










There are no upfront costs and no long-term contracts! Really no risk to try it!


----------



## PPS

I'm thinking of going the VOOM route but only have an RGB input on my front projector. Does anyone know if V supplies the converter ?


----------



## Ilya




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PPS_
> *I'm thinking of going the VOOM route but only have an RGB input on my front projector. Does anyone know if V supplies the converter ?*



Good question. Probably not. Is it expensive?


----------



## Shark73

Did anyone else have drops during the 2nd half of the NBA game last night?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Did anyone else have drops during the 2nd half of the NBA game last night?*



Yes, both OTA and Cable.


-- Paul


----------



## Dweezilz

Yep, it kept freezing etc...


----------



## SteveC

PPS,

Here is a very reasonably priced Component to VGA Transcoder:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/pro...video/9a65.asp 

Up until very recently these devices were several hundred dollars.

Steve


----------



## Shark73

No drops or freezing tonight for the hockey game. I wonder what happen last night during the basketball game.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *No drops or freezing tonight for the hockey game. I wonder what happen last night during the basketball game.*



Yea it was strange, ABC is usually great on the reliability of HD in Cleveland.


----------



## jtscherne

It's quiet here... too quiet!


I was watching ABC Monday night and felt that that the quality was a little lower than usual. For example, there seemed to be pixelation during George Lopez, although the basketball game seemed fine last night.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *It's quiet here... too quiet!
> 
> 
> I was watching ABC Monday night and felt that that the quality was a little lower than usual. For example, there seemed to be pixelation during George Lopez, although the basketball game seemed fine last night.*



Basketball game was fine for me too, but after seeing the NBA Playoffs and the Stanley Cup games, I am coming to the conclusion that 720p just isn't as crisp as 1080i (i.e. HDNet productions). It probably has more to do with the "soft" center court/longer range camera that they use.



-- Paul


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Basketball game was fine for me too, but after seeing the NBA Playoffs and the Stanley Cup games, I am coming to the conclusion that 720p just isn't as crisp as 1080i (i.e. HDNet productions). It probably has more to do with the "soft" center court/longer range camera that they use.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



Interesting. I have a 1080i monitor, but no cable or dish. My experience is limited to the local networks. I find for sports that I much prefer 720p over 1080i. Pixelation bugs the hell out of me for some reason. I can hardly pick up WKYC as of late, but really don't care because the multicasting ruins the HD experience for me. I noticed a lot during CBS football that their graphics caused a ton of pixelation. While definately not as crisp as 1080i, I liked the 720p broadcasts of the Stanley Cup and NBA Finals.


The biggest thing that bothered me was that damn scoreboard ABC uses. For Basketball and Hockey it covered up way too much of the screen, but thats for another topic.


----------



## jtscherne

The article below was in today's Plain Dealer and gives WEAO's current HD plans:

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainme...0415202872.xml


----------



## Rbuchina

I tried to watch some the US open Golf this weekend on WKYC digital. I was again reminded that WKYC Cleveland is potentially the worst excuse for a local HDTV broadcasting station in the world. The continuous drop outs made the broadcast unwatchable for me. Fortunate the broadcast was not in HD so I could settle for the soft picture via my dish..


If you can find some time please join me in calling or E-mailing WKYC about this lame excuse of a transmission. I would be embarrassed to work in the engineering department of this station.


Here is some contact info that may be out of date.


WKYC, analog 3, D-2, NBC

general 216-344-3333

newsroom 216-344-3300

Rex Rickly, chief engineer 216-344-3353

Donna Cropf, Programming 216-344-3559


Thanks for any support,


Ray


----------



## jtscherne

I read a post on another forum from someone who is usually "in the know" about local Adelphia activity (and has always been right). Supposedly there are announcements coming shortly about more channels as well as the HD DVR. (rumor has it about $4.95 a month additional, based on some reports)


I talked to a repairman recently who stated that it is his understanding that ESPN-HD will be an "a la carte" channel, meaning an extra charge for it. I definitely know that ESPN is one of the most expensive basic cable channels, so I wouldn't be surprised about this.


Frankly, I'm willing to pay extra based on content, i.e., inHD, which has some awsome programming, if you've ever checked out their website.


----------



## handsworth

Adelphia update!!!!!


On July 15th, Adelphia ( GREATER CLEVELAND MARKET) will restructure their HD packages. The SA3250Hd will remain at $7.95 per month but will only includes the local channels. (ABC and NBC). As I hear something about FOX and CBS I will definitly let you know as football season is fast approaching.


On July 15th, they will introduce their HD Plus tier which will include

ESPN HD

IN HD

IN HD2

HDNet

HDNET Movies

Cost of this package is $5.00 per month.


On August 1st, for current HD subscribers, HDNet & HDMovies will move from FREE to the the PLUS tier.


Adelphia now has 4 premium movie channels. Cinemax will be launched on the 15th also. (Subscription required)


Bottom line is for $12.95 you get

ABC

NBC

HBO

SHOWTIME

CINEMAX

STARZ

ESPN HD

INHD1

INHD2

HDNET

HDNET MOVIES


----------



## Dweezilz

Just to clairify, HBO, Showtime, Cinemx & Starz HD requires separate subscriptions to their non-HD counterpart I'd think. No way are they giving those channels included in the price for $12.95 (nobody else does). Also, the $7.95 for the box can replace the money already being paid for the digital cable box so it's not 'over & above' the money you pay for your current cable box. In other words, if you are paying $4.95 for digital box, (or whatever the digital box costs), the HD version costs $7.95 instead. Not sure of the exact costs so don't quote me on those but that's the general idea. Hope that helps. Now if they get Fox, CBS, Discovery-HD, & TNT-HD we'd be all set and I could say goodbye to Dish. ha! On the plus side, for an extra $5 I'll get In-HD1 and In-HD2. We'll see if the wife goes for that one!







At that point with Dish & Adelphia, Adelphia would give me Starz-HD and the In-HD's which aren't on Dish & Dish would give me Discovery-HD & TNT-HD which are't on Adelphia (plus CBS & Fox via OTA with Dish). I get the movie channels from Adelphia as I was already getting those from them. I only pay about $8.00 per month for Dish HD package and what amounts to $9 for Adelphia (includes $5 for this package & another $4 above what I was already paying for the digital box.)


-Todd


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I am guessing the answer is no, but do you guys know if you can just get the HD package for 12.95 or do you also have to get basic or digital cable as well?


----------



## MrPorterhouse

Comcast in North Ridgeville area(N. Ridgeville, Elyria, Avon, Avon Lake) has a decent HD lineup, but the best thing is: It doesn't cost anything more to have HD Box and HD Programing than if you just had digital cable.


I have had the digital plus level of service for several years. When I added my HD Box and HD Programing, there was no increase in price for this service increase. I do expect a price increase at some point, but hey, I have gotten a sweet deal so far. My Motorola 6200 and HD quality has been awesome.


HD Channel lineup. Premiums require subscription to the premium channel.


ESPN-HD

INHD

INHD2

ABC-HD

NBC-HD

FOX-HD

HBO-HD

MAX-HD

SHO-HD

STARZ-HD


----------



## Ben Music

MrPorterhouse,


And it just keeps getting better. On Demand should be ready for start up by mid to late July, and Discovery HD is going to start around Aug 1st.


Ben Music


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *I am guessing the answer is no, but do you guys know if you can just get the HD package for 12.95 or do you also have to get basic or digital cable as well?*



No. The HD-Package requires the digital package.


-Todd


----------



## MrPorterhouse




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ben Music_
> *MrPorterhouse,
> 
> 
> And it just keeps getting better. On Demand should be ready for start up by mid to late July, and Discovery HD is going to start around Aug 1st.
> 
> 
> Ben Music*



I've been hounding Comcast about Discovery-HD, almost daily. I told them that I heard that Discovery-HD would be added on the 1st or 2nd of July. They replied back," Yes, Discovery-HD will be added to your channel lineup on or about the first week of July." SWEEEEEEET!


They didn't have any info about CBS-HD yet. Hopefully in time for the NFL season. But CBS-HD will only have one HD game per week anyway. FOX-HD will cover up to 6 HD games per week, ABC-HD will do MNF in HD, and ESPN-HD will do their SNF in HD. So that should be 3 or 4 HD games per week that we'll get to see in its entirety. CBS-HD can add one more. That's not bad at all. Then ESPN-HD will 9 HD football games to show on sportscenter each week. NICE!


----------



## jtscherne

CBS-HD also offers at least one college football game a week. In the past it was an SEC game.


----------



## TLaz

Is the picture on WUAB-DT usually so dark, with a lack of contrast and color saturation? I have a DiSH 811 receiver for OTA reception and note that WUAB-DT is much darker etc than the received WUAB analog channel


Is it my equipment or the WUAB-DT transmission?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Tony I think the picture on WUAB is usually pretty weak. If all your other channels look good, then its definately just them.


----------



## jtscherne

When will customer service have this information so that we can sign up?


Thanks for the information!




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Adelphia update!!!!!
> 
> 
> On July 15th, Adelphia ( GREATER CLEVELAND MARKET) will restructure their HD packages. The SA3250Hd will remain at $7.95 per month but will only includes the local channels. (ABC and NBC). As I hear something about FOX and CBS I will definitly let you know as football season is fast approaching.
> 
> 
> On July 15th, they will introduce their HD Plus tier which will include
> 
> ESPN HD
> 
> IN HD
> 
> IN HD2
> 
> HDNet
> 
> HDNET Movies
> 
> Cost of this package is $5.00 per month.
> *


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Tony I think the picture on WUAB is usually pretty weak. If all your other channels look good, then its definately just them.*



Signal strength won't affect the brightness of a digital image in any way.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *When will customer service have this information so that we can sign up?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information!*



I'm glad that someone's excited about it. Personally, I'm feeling a bit ripped off. I'm not at all convinced that those channels are worth an additional $5 a month - on top of the $7.95 that we're already paying.


All I know is that my cable bill is higher than its ever been even now - before they add these new charges. I'm not impressed with this new offering at all.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Signal strength won't affect the brightness of a digital image in any way.*



A "Weak" picture as in, it sucks. Not that it has weak signal strength.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I'm glad that someone's excited about it. Personally, I'm feeling a bit ripped off. I'm not at all convinced that those channels are worth an additional $5 a month - on top of the $7.95 that we're already paying.
> 
> 
> All I know is that my cable bill is higher than its ever been even now - before they add these new charges. I'm not impressed with this new offering at all.*



I can understand how you feel for sure, but keep in mind that other services such as Dish Network & DirectTV which have been lauded for their HDTV, cost $10 per month and expensive hardware to buy, and neither give you all that much more for that price. We need to separate this particular HD offering from the over-all cost. One has nothing to do with the other. I'd be the 1st to complain about my cable bill right along side with you, but looking just at this HD offering, it's not so horrible. Dish Network offers TNTHD, Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD, HDnet, HDnet Movies for $10 per month. DirectTV is similar for $10. Adelphia is $5 for Hdnet, HDnet Movies, In-HD, In-HD2, and ESPN-HD, which is 1/2 the cost of the other two. So each give you around 5 channels & cost $5-$10 with Adelphia at $5.


$7.95 per month is not an aditional fee keep in mind. If you had just plain digital cable, you'd be paying the same for the 1st box & about $4 for the 2nd box (approx.). So even if this is your 2nd box, It amounts to $4 more, plus the $5 for a total of $9 per month, with no hardware to buy. Now of course with Dish or Direct, if you are a new customer, you can get deals on the HD-box, but for current customers, to get the HD receiver your gonna pay $300-$500. They have programs for current customers, but not for those that have already received discounted hardware.


I totally respect your opinion, but from this point of view, to me it's not that bad. I know we all love to trash Adelphia as their customer service is horrible to say the least, but this isn't quite as bad as some make it to be at least in my eyes. PLEASE understand that this is my opinion so let's not start the flames again.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Everyone here knows that I have had my Adelphia problems, but I do believe that the upcoming plan is fair, given the content. Of course, much of it will be of particular interest to the sports fan (ESPN and inHD, which shows HD baseball games and I think also showed football last fall). I'm hoping that Discovery HD will eventually appear in the mix with no raise in price, along with other cable HD networks (Bravo, TNT, etc.)


I think if they get the locals done (including WEAO when it goes HD in August), they'll have a package that is as good as anyone else's.


----------



## Rijax

Been following this thread for a while, and thought a COX subscriber (Fairview Park) should chime in, so you have something to compare.


I've had Cox's HD setup for about a year now. When I first signed up I could only get 5 HD channels (HBO - I was already a subscriber)/CBS/ABC/UPN/ESPN). The package was free of extra charges, but they required me to shell out $350 for an HD box (they now rent the converter boxes for $10/month), and socked me $50 for the installation. .


Along about the first of the year they added 4 more (BRAVO/iNHD/iNHD2/and Discovery HD for $5 bucks extra). I opted to skip the $5 Discovery, although I've heard good things about it. But, by juggling some of my packages, I added Showtime HD (turned out to be a waste of time. Not much really in HD). And, they just recently added NBC.


So far, except for Discovery, there have been no charges for the HD package other than those mentioned above. BUT, I'm still waiting for Fox/PBS/TNT/HDNet/HDNet movies/etc. I have a sneaking suspicion that when those channels start to come online, the cash register will start to ring.


Cox has been a good provider. Their signal is strong, and I've had very few problems. Their customer service is satisfactory, although I've not had to use it much so I can't say for sure. They do, however, charge an arm and a leg (in my opinion). I also have their high speed internet service, and have been very satisfied.


Maybe it's just me, but the $5 you guys will have to pay for the extra channels doesn't sound too bad. Cox wants $5 for Discovery alone. I hope that when Cox adds the channels I mentioned, they only sock me $5.

*My Channel Lineup*


HBO HD

Showtime HD

WKYC/NBC HD (just added)

WOIO/CBS HD

WEWS/ABC HD

WUAB/UPN HD

Bravo HD+

ESPN HD

iNHD

iNHD2

Discovery HD Theater $4.95/mo (I don't pay, so I don't get it)


----------



## MrPorterhouse

I've posted this before, but I'll chime in. I've got Comcast HD in North Ridgeville, OH(west of Cleveland). Right now, There are a total of 10 channels availible(4 premiums and 6 basic networks)


202 ESPN-HD

206 INHD

207 INHD2

210 ABC-HD

211 NBC-HD

213 FOX-HD

228 HBO-HD*

233 Max-HD*

238 Show-HD*

248 Starz-HD*

xxx Discovery-HD(to be added first week of July 2004)

* premium channels require subscription to their package


Notice there is no CBS-HD. Comcast is having difficulty negotiating their agreement to carry their HD channel. This is in its final stages and will be wrapped up by fall 2004. Quality of broadcasts has been excellent. HD programs look amazing, as expected. And even the SD material on these channels that is upconverted looks great. The SD material looks leaps and bounds better than on the analog channel, especially FOX. INHD and INHD2 are the most amazing HD that I have ever seen, PERIOD. The programming on these channels rotates, and varies widely in subject from sports(awesome) to concerts to nature shows(Discovery-type) to movies.


I have been satisfied with this lineup, especially considering that I don't pay anything extra to have HD(No HD box rental fee, No HD monthly program fee). I'm sure this will change in the near future, but even a $10/month its a great value and well worth it to me.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MrPorterhouse_
> *INHD and INHD2 are the most amazing HD that I have ever seen, PERIOD. The programming on these channels rotates, and varies widely in subject from sports(awesome) to concerts to nature shows(Discovery-type) to movies.*



Got to agree with this statement. Fabulous HD picture. Unfortunately they repeat a lot of programming over and over.


Baseball in HD on these channels is spectacular, but I wish they'd show an Indians game. The team is actually starting to be worth watching again.


They have some good concerts as well (Little Feat; Lynyrd Skynyrd; etc.), although, most often, the audio is only stereo and not Dolby Digital 5.1.


It is my belief (and hope) that as we go along, there will be more programming available, and the repeating will diminish some.


All in all, iNHD is off to a very good start.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *$7.95 per month is not an aditional fee keep in mind. If you had just plain digital cable, you'd be paying the same for the 1st box....
> 
> 
> I totally respect your opinion, but from this point of view, to me it's not that bad. PLEASE understand that this is my opinion so let's not start the flames again.
> *



That $7.95 sure looks like an extra fee to me. All I know is that when I swapped out my old box for the new HD one, they added a $7.95 charge to my bill where there was no charge before. I don't know what they charge for non-HD boxes now, but back at Christmas when I added the HD service, there was no charge at all for my old SD box.


Actually, the new box started at $3.95, then went to $7.95 after a couple of months. And that's exactly what they told me at the time - that I'd find an additional $7.95 added to my bill. So I think you're mistaken on that point.


No, I intend no flames, I just find Adelphia to be a bit higher in price than I think they should be. They offer decent HD service, but at a premium price. I suppose I'll pay it, but grudgingly. They'd just better get CBS, UPN, and WB added soon.


----------



## Dweezilz

OK. I appreciate your effort not to flame me, but to end this debate, I called Adelphia to get the definative answer. I just got off the phone with a very helpful person who explained it to me (or better said verified what I said previously). There is a charge for the digital cable box regardless if you are seeing it or not. I can't tell you what you saw in your December bill, but it is there. I asked about in the past & the woman verified that there has always been a charge for the digital box rental and it's $3.50 for the 1st box and $6.50 for the 2nd ($3.50 plus $3 extra box fee). I made a typo and reversed the charges for the 1st and 2nd box, but it's obvious that I was saying the HD box is $4 more (which is what I said actually). On your bill, it may be listed as something else, but I assure you it's there. I'm reading off my JANUARY 2004 bill here:


Digital Add'l - $6.50

-Receivers at $3.25 each (it went up $0.25 since)

-Service Charge $3 each (each additional)


In my post I said approximately because I wasn't sure...I was close with $4 being the difference. So the 'new' charge of $7.95 is about $4.50 more than you were previously paying, which is about what I said.


So in the end...I was not mistaken. $7.95 for the HD instead of $3.50 for the digital box, for a difference of $4.45. Add that to $5 and you pay LESS for 5 channels on Adelphia than you do on Dish Network or DirectTV.


I think once you see this, you'll see that it's not a bad deal at all. And...when I got the HD box, mine was $3.95 at first then $7.95. I never even mentioned that so I don't know how I could be mistaken about it. Also, we forget that there isn't any expensive reciever to purchase. I dropped $400 on my dish receiver which is equivalent to over 50 months of Adelphia's hardware charge...all in one lump sum. Again, it's not that bad when you get a real handle on what the charges actually are.


-Todd


----------



## handsworth

Dweezilz is quite correct. I assume that all of you with Adelphia cable aren't just watching analog channels on your expensive Hd televisions. I also assume that you have at least one digital box. So the total cost of your upgrade to Hd will only be $9.45. $4.45 for the equipment and $5.00 for the addtional programming.


Then again from one who knows







When the new HD/DVR combo box is ready, it will be the same price ($7.95), however if you are a gold package subscriber or better (2+ premium movie channels), then your total cost for both services is still $9.45. Gold pak+ members get DVR service free. Can't think of anyone who can beat that.


As soon as I get another update about the combo box I will be sure to post it, but I hear they are waiting for another software upgrade to drive certain outputs like the IEEE1394 port.


----------



## MrPorterhouse

It really doesn't matter how the charge is hidden. If the total bill was $100 before, and now its $107.95, then thats $7.95 no matter how you define it. He didn't flame you, he was just pointing out the fact that he pays extra for it.


----------



## Dweezilz

HOLD ON Mr.Porterhouse...who said anything about him flaming me? You totally read that wrong!! He didn't flame me and I never said he did. In fact, in the first line of my post, I said I appreciated him trying not to flame which was COMPLIMENTING him as he said he intended no flame. I was thanking him, not scolding him! HA! It was worded in an ambigious why so I see how you thought I said that, but you misunderstood. Go back & re-read it including his last paragraph & you'll see nobody accused him of flaming. Can you tell I'm agrivated here? ha! It's just frustrating to post something & then have people completely either misinterpret or ignore what's been said. Sorry if this comes off harsh, but it's getting very old.


Also, this is not even a debateable thing unless somehow his bill is different than everyone elses, mine, & different from what Adelphia told me. The bill is NOT $7.95 more due to hardware. It's quite plain to see. You pay $3.50 for the digital box and $7.95 for HD box. When you remove the digital box, you remove the $3.50 and get $7.95 added. The difference is $4.45 n ot $7.95. I's simple math for goodness sakes. I don't know what else to say if people don't understand it. How much plainer can it be.


People need to carefully read before posting!! We need to get our facts more or less straight before complaining is all I'm saying. Mistakes can happen I realize so don't get me wrong in that respect, but I'm trying to explain the mistakes about the billing and cost so it's more palateable for everyone.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Dweezilz is quite correct. I assume that all of you with Adelphia cable aren't just watching analog channels on your expensive Hd televisions. I also assume that you have at least one digital box. So the total cost of your upgrade to Hd will only be $9.45. $4.45 for the equipment and $5.00 for the addtional programming.
> 
> 
> Then again from one who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the new HD/DVR combo box is ready, it will be the same price ($7.95), however if you are a gold package subscriber or better (2+ premium movie channels), then your total cost for both services is still $9.45. Gold pak+ members get DVR service free. Can't think of anyone who can beat that.
> 
> 
> As soon as I get another update about the combo box I will be sure to post it, but I hear they are waiting for another software upgrade to drive certain outputs like the IEEE1394 port.*



Thanks for your post!! Someone understands what I was saying! At least there's one person in the world that understands me. HA!


----------



## MrPorterhouse

Dweezilz(Todd)

I don't intend to cause misunderstanding, or make matters worse. I understand your math and the price difference. I also understand the post that I was refering to by Jim Gilliland. His math showed a $7.95 difference(not a $7.95 charge), your math showed a $4.45 difference. I don't really care regardless, as I don't even have Adelphia. I fully understood your point, his point, and my point. You've obviously put in great effort to sort this out, and that is commendable and helps us all understand the big picture better. A trivial charge like that shouldn't matter anyway, as long as you get the HD programing that you want to view.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *So in the end...I was not mistaken. $7.95 for the HD instead of $3.50 for the digital box, for a difference of $4.45.*



You are correct. I checked my earlier bill, and there is indeed a charge for the older digital box. Apparently Adelphia didn't understand this themselves when I first signed up for HD service back in December. So the difference is smaller than I thought it was.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *You are correct. I checked my earlier bill, and there is indeed a charge for the older digital box. Apparently Adelphia didn't understand this themselves when I first signed up for HD service back in December. So the difference is smaller than I thought it was.*



No problem at all.







I'm glad we straightened it out. It's very understandable as I've heard all sorts of wrong things from Adelphia people over the years. Wrong info, wrong prices, etc... The cable installer even told me a few months ago that HD wasn't much different than digital cable anyway! ha!! Dish is no better for CS. When I was trying to get the new Dish 811-hd reciever back in Dec., I must have been told 6 different stories why they failed to ship it to me after placing the order 3 different times. Then it turned out they wouldn't sell it to me stand-alone yet even though their website gave a stand-alone price! I had already sold & shipped my Dish 6000-HD receiver so I was beyond upset that Dish never delivered the 811. After two months without HD, I finally received it. I think it's that type of customer service in general...they often aren't even close to knowlegable enough to have the job!


Anyway, let's hope that WOIO-CBS and Adelphia (and others who don't carry CBS-HD) can work things out soon. For those who don't have Dish as an alternate like I do, remember you can always buy an OTA tuner for about $150-$200 on eBay should football season roll around (not to mention three CSI shows) & Adelphia still has no CBS-HD.


Take care.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Speaking of WOIO, is WUAB showing Smallville and Enterprise in HD? The reason I ask is that means we need them too, and since they're owned by the same company as WOIO, hopefully they'll come in together to cable companies not currently offering them.


----------



## TLaz

Star Trek and Smallville are shown in HD on WUAB. As I noted in a previous post , for me, the picture is dark, with little contrast and poor color saturation.


Have others noted this problem? I'd be interested in a reviews of the transmitted HDTV video quality on WKYC, WJW, WEWS, WOIO, WUAB, WNEO etc.


----------



## oachalon

just to let everyone know people with comcast hd now have discovery hd theater. Its on channel 205 in my city. Might be different in other peoples cities.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I though smallville was on the WBNX, not WUAB?


----------



## jtscherne

You're absolutely right; it's on the WB, no UPN. My error...


----------



## TLaz

Woops! There is another series broadcast in HD on WUAB, I thought it was Smallville, my mistake.


----------



## MrPorterhouse

Yea, I got Discovery-HD this morning, channel 205, Comcast in North Ridgeville.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

jake 2.0 was in HD on UPN but that show quickly got the axe.


----------



## jtscherne

Does anyone know for sure whether the splicer has been installed at WJW? The reason I'm asking is that I read elsewhere that any local Fox station that is totally HD ready will be showing the All Star game in HD. Since Fox was one of the few stations I was able to get with my OTA box, it would be worth pulling it out of mothballs for the game!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Does anyone know for sure whether the splicer has been installed at WJW? The reason I'm asking is that I read elsewhere that any local Fox station that is totally HD ready will be showing the All Star game in HD. Since Fox was one of the few stations I was able to get with my OTA box, it would be worth pulling it out of mothballs for the game!*



I've definitely seen some HD content coming from WJW. Nothing worth watching, mind you, but some of it has defintely been HD. In fact, TItanTV says that they'll be showing HD from 8 to 9 this evening.


However, TitanTV does not show an HD indicator for the All-Star game on 7/13. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Fox is still not HD, its 480 widescreen converted locally to 720p, thats what you saw.



As far as the splicer being installed, I am gonna take a stab in the dark and say yes. But thats just a stab in the dark so who knows.


Edit:


Although maybe not as it isnt listed in the Fox thread in the programming forum.


----------



## Tom in OH

It's always nice to see the HD symbol light up on the info banner. I noticed when WJW 8-1 recently went HD (720p), the signal strength also became more steady and stronger.


It's also good to have more 720p material to compare with 1080i which will provide plenty of fuel for discussion... re: disagreement... ^_^


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I was just gonna ask about WJW signal strength. I used to have a heck of a time trying to pick them up but it has been solid since they switched to upconvert their 480 widescreen material to 720p.


If only I could pick up WKYC. Also if only WBNX and WVIZ would get their acts together. But this is discussion for another day


----------



## MrPorterhouse

I watched Bernie Mac last night on FOX specifically because titantv had listed in HD. And sure enough, it was in FULL HD GLORY. Comcast in North Ridgeville has got it coming in beautifully. If the All-Star game goes HD, I will be a happy man, and its looking like that is gonna happen.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *I was just gonna ask about WJW signal strength. I used to have a heck of a time trying to pick them up but it has been solid since they switched to upconvert their 480 widescreen material to 720p.
> 
> 
> If only I could pick up WKYC.*



Hi Mike,

What type of antenna are u using?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Tom I got a Big A$$ 172" Antenna in the back yard. Its overkill I know. I had a smaller one that picked up WKYC perfect all the time, but was weak with other stations. Now I can't pick up WKYC but everything else is money. Its no big deal, the last thing I was interested in watching on NBC was the Daytona 500. I absolutely cannot stand their stretch mode for 4:3 programming, and the ugliness of the pixelation because they multicast is very bothersome as well.


Another part of my problem is I am right next to Columbia road in Westlake, I'm on the first street just west, parallel to Columbia. But Columbia and the houses on it are elevated a good 20 feet above my houses elevation, and my antenna is not very high up.





MrPorterhouse. Read my post at the top of this page of this thread. Fox is not HD. They are upconverting their widescreen 480p material to 720p. The all star game may be in HD, but other than that, we get nothing in HD until August at the very earliest.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Tom I got a Big A$$ 172" Antenna in the back yard. Its overkill I know. I had a smaller one that picked up WKYC perfect all the time, but was weak with other stations. Now I can't pick up WKYC but everything else is money.
> 
> *



Wow, u got me beat. Mine's the 160" from RadioShack, their largest. I had to move the antenna off the back deck for a couple weeks for some home improvements and we really missed the doppler radar channel 3-3.


L8r, Tom


----------



## Dweezilz

It's strange that for me, even when I can get in WKYC NBC 2.1 (I often can't get it in at all), when I try to tune in 2.3, I usually can't get the radar to stay on the screen for more than a few seconds. Anyone else have that issue? I wonder why 2.3 would be more difficult to pull in than the main channel? You'd figure if I could get 2.1, I'd be able to get 2.3 with the radar. Could they allocate different power levels?


-Todd


----------



## Lyle O

Todd,

Same issue here. I have a Dish 6000. When I tune in 2.3, the radar flashes for less than a second and then I see nothing. Then when I change the channel it flashes on again for less than a second.

Jeff


----------



## MrPorterhouse




> Quote:
> _
> 
> 
> MrPorterhouse. Read my post at the top of this page of this thread. Fox is not HD. They are upconverting their widescreen 480p material to 720p. The all star game may be in HD, but other than that, we get nothing in HD until August at the very earliest. [/b]
> _


_


Yes, that may be the case, but I really enjoy the upconvert. Its much like watching the HD movies on Cinemax-HD. Those movies are upconverted to 1080i and they look amazing. So, I really see a difference when they(FOX) upconverts a show to 720P vs one of the shows that isn't upconverted. I consider that to be a HD show. If you couldn't count an upconverted program as HD, then you're saying only original programs shot with HD equipment are HD? I know that the true HD programs have the true resolution of 1080i or 720p and they are much higher in quality, but I also consider the upconverts to 1080i or 720P as HD because they are also much better than the 480i or 480p original resolution. If FOX or some other network is upconverting a program to HD resolution, then I consider that to be HD. There is a huge difference in programs that are upconverted and programs that are not upconverted._


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Lyle O_
> *Todd,
> 
> Same issue here. I have a Dish 6000. When I tune in 2.3, the radar flashes for less than a second and then I see nothing. Then when I change the channel it flashes on again for less than a second.
> 
> Jeff*



FWIW, there's always been something odd about how that weather radar channel is "encoded". It always hangs my Samsung SIR-T165 with a blank screen for a couple seconds when I channel up/down past it. Once it locks in, it's fine. I assume since it's a static image instead of full motion, there is something different about that digital stream that isn't quite right (or nobody making the set top boxes ever tested such a scenario, which wouldn't surprise me)


-- Paul


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *FWIW, there's always been something odd about how that weather radar channel is "encoded". It always hangs my Samsung SIR-T165 with a blank screen for a couple seconds when I channel up/down past it. Once it locks in, it's fine. I assume since it's a static image instead of full motion, there is something different about that digital stream that isn't quite right (or nobody making the set top boxes ever tested such a scenario, which wouldn't surprise me)
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



I'm sure somebody else can give more specifics, but I always attributed the issues on 3-3 to the fact that it has painfully little bandwidth allotted to it. My HD-200 works fine on 3-3, although it does get extremely blocky and / or drop out when there is fast motion (well, as fast as you could expect on 3-3). And atmospheric conditions do contribute to frequent dropouts -- usually when I want to watch the radar the most.


My theory is that because there is so little bandwidth available for 3-3 that if you miss a block or two of the data stream, your box might not catch up right away if at all. Or, if the channel's not coming in at all for you, perhaps it's the ol' "all or nothing" syndrome with digital broadcasts. In other words, if your signal strength is on the borderline at all, loss of signal would be more frequent and the box may not have enough to grab onto since there is so little coming at it in the first place.


----------



## Rbuchina

With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..


Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.


Maybe it will help.


Ray


----------



## Rbuchina

With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..


Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.


Maybe it will help.


Ray


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..
> 
> 
> Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.
> 
> 
> Maybe it will help.
> 
> 
> Ray*



Make sure you complain to [email protected] as well. You would be surprised - many stations actually read these emails and respond.

http://www.wkyc.com/contact/ 


-- Paul


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..
> 
> 
> Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.
> 
> 
> Maybe it will help.
> 
> 
> Ray*



I've been saying that 3-2 is useless for a while now. Supposedly it's needed to provide digital signals to the cable providers. But that doesn't make any sense to me, since the other digital stations are able to provide the same signal without actually broadcasting it.


But, PLEASE DON'T TAKE 3-3 AWAY! My wife and I are junkies. And since we have DirecTV, we don't have the "local on the 8's" forcast that cable subscribers do. And without broadband capability, the argument that we could just check the internet is inconvenient for us. 3-3 provides a great service for us.


So, if they would drop 3-2 altogether and allocate about 90% of that bandwidth to 3-1 and 10% additional to 3-3, we'd all be happy, right?


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by MrPorterhouse_
> *.....like watching the HD movies on Cinemax-HD. Those movies are upconverted to 1080i and they look amazing.*



The reason Cinemax HD movies 'look amazing', is because they are HDTV. Widescreen movies on Cinemax HD are not upconverted, they are native HD. Cinemax HD & HBO HD do not upconvert any movies. On the other hand, Showtime & TMC do.




> Quote:
> *If you couldn't count an upconverted program as HD, then you're saying only original programs shot with HD equipment are HD?*



This is 100% correct.


Native HD is defined by the following: The initial acquisition must be obtained by an HD imaging device, either from live video using an HD camera or a film transfer using an HD telecine.


Taking any other source and upconverting it to an HD format is not HDTV.




> Quote:
> *I know that the true HD programs have the true resolution of 1080i or 720p and they are much higher in quality, but I also consider the upconverts to 1080i or 720P as HD because they are also much better than the 480i or 480p original resolution. If FOX or some other network is upconverting a program to HD resolution, then I consider that to be HD.*



This is flat out incorrect.





> Quote:
> *.....but I really enjoy the upconvert.*



Fine, but that does not make it HDTV.


----------



## Ken H

Does Adelphia pass any HD in the clear, unencrypted? Or is all of their HD, including locals, encoded?


----------



## Dave Alex

Does anyone know when and why not now WVIZ PBS in Cleveland will go Hi-Def? Over two years ago their website said they would go Hi-Def on May 1st 2003. They got an extension from the FCC. I was hoping they would go on May 1st 04. Nothing happened. I called them several times. Nobody seems to know anything. Their PR person promised to call me. She never did.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dave Alex_
> *Does anyone know when and why not now WVIZ PBS in Cleveland will go Hi-Def? Over two years ago their website said they would go Hi-Def on May 1st 2003. They got an extension from the FCC. I was hoping they would go on May 1st 04. Nothing happened. I called them several times. Nobody seems to know anything. Their PR person promised to call me. She never did.*



A while back in this thread, it was discovered in an FCC filing that Viacom (who WVIZ currently leases tower space from), for whatever reason, was preventing WVIZ from installing their digital transmitter on that tower. I assume WVIZ is still struggling with Viacom, or attempting to locate another tower. An engineer at WVIZ said it might be possible that they start doing HD over cable before OTA, but that was months ago.


Reporters at the Plain-Dealer who I've emailed about the problem, to my knowledge, have done nothing to bring the issue to the public.


-- Paul


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ken H_
> *Does Adelphia pass any HD in the clear, unencrypted? Or is all of their HD, including locals, encoded?*



Ken,


I've been told by Adelphia CSR's that they do not send a clear signal. However, CSR's can often be incorrect. We have an Adelphia insider who stops in this thread. Hopefully, he can confirm or deny this statement.



Jim


----------



## Tom in OH

You might be able to confirm whether the HD cable broadcasts are encrypted or not if someone is able to use any digital cable box other than the one provided by Adelphia.


When I called Time Warner and asked if I needed to rent a box from them to receive HD, they said any digital box able to decode HD cable signals would do.


----------



## Shark73

Hey Tom! I tried to incorporate the Adelphia channels into my Zenith 520 and couldn't do it which is why I made the call to Adelphia.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Guys I am emailing this to WKYC about channel 3-2. Please add your name to the bottom and email it as well. I am sending it to [email protected] as was listed earlier in the thread. If anyone knows someone better to send it to, please post it.


The olympics are coming up, and NBC has NASCAR now in Widescreen, and those are both very fast moving sports. Pixillation will be horrible and channel 3-2 needs to be turned off.






Dear WKYC,


I have been talking with many other HDTV owners in the Cleveland area and we all agree that substation 3-2 is not necessary. By allocating bandwidth on your broadcast to 3-2, channel 3-1 suffers dramatically. During any scenes with motion, the screen is filled with pixilation. Because of this, the HDTV picture on WKYC is the worst of all the networks in Cleveland currently broadcasting in HD. Having 3-2 is also unneccassy for HDTV owners. There is no reason for us to ever watch 3-2 because there is no reason not to watch the HD picture on 3-1. Why on earth would we choose to watch Law and Order, or any other NBC program on channel 3-2 in standard definition, when we have the HD picture on 3-1.


I am asking you to please stop broadcasting channel 3-2 on your digital station. The picture quality on 3-1 suffers greatly, and as HDTV owners, we have no reason to watch 3-2.


Thank you for your time, and please turn this broadcast off,


Mike Stuewe


----------



## jtscherne

I know that Adelphia is now allowing a customer to use their own box, with a credit (much like they do with the cable modem). I remember that being in a mailing awhile back, but never considered it, given the cost of the box. However, it might be only for the specific equipment currently being used.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Hey Tom! I tried to incorporate the Adelphia channels into my Zenith 520 and couldn't do it which is why I made the call to Adelphia.*



Hi Jim,

funny... that's why I called Time Warner also, to see if I could receive cable HD on my Zenith 520. They said it should work fine but as we both found out, the Zenith doesn't do HD cable.


----------



## SteveC

I guess I'm one of the few that do watch channel 3-2. My HDTV is native 4:3 so when they are broadcasting non-HDTV(native 4:3) material watching on 3-2 allows it to fill the entire 4:3 screen. Otherwise it would be both letterboxed AND windowboxed on my screen if I watched it on 3-1. However, if there is true native widescreen HDTV being broadcast on 3-1 I very much agree that they should not multicast at that time. I'm guessing though that constantly reconfiguring their datastream like that is not something they would be very excited about doing. I think it would solve the problem though.

Steve


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Steve why not just watch the analog signal. Because of the pixelation, I think analog is a much nicer picture than 3-2.


----------



## abrahavt

If your TV has a QAM tuner should you be able to pick up Adelphia's HD feeds?


----------



## roblake




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by abrahavt_
> *If your TV has a QAM tuner should you be able to pick up Adelphia's HD feeds?*



It seems not. The HD channel numbers via the cable box are not the "right" ones for the QAM tuner. I tried 770 with the Sony XBR QAM tuner and did not get anything.


----------



## panjj

Apparently the letter from Adelphia on the Sept 15 go with espnHD, etc. has been delayed to August 1st. Has anyone heard anything on this? Also, I was told the new HD DVR will be here shortly (within just a few weeks). This info came from a local Adelphia salesperson that has been reliable in the past. Thanks for any info.


----------



## jtscherne

I assume you meant July 15th.


----------



## roblake

I called Adelphia as soon as the letter arrived. The Customer Service person could find no information on how to enter a subscription into the system. She was to call me back, which has not happened yet. I guess August 1 is the next fantasy date.


----------



## jtscherne

Just appeared on digital Channel 1 (in Shaker Heights):


"Great News! ESPN HD available 07/15/04, customers will be able to subscribe to our new HD Plus tier that includes ESPN HD, INHD1 & INHD2. Cinemax HD will also be available for customers who subscribe to Cinemax."


----------



## handsworth

As far as I know, everythings set for tomorrow, except Cinemax. There was a glitch as of 5PM today. I hope they can resolve that. You should be able to order the HD pak tomorrow. I'm trying to confirm some more good news tonite. Will post asap.


----------



## jtscherne

It was weird tonight. I lost HDNet Movies. It now shows the "Not Subscribed" message. I called in, but they indicated that others had called in reporting the problem too...


FWIW, I ordered the package last week using the regular 888 number. When I called in tonight, the CS rep. confirmed that I was all signed up.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I lost the HDNet Movies, too. In addition, I find that a new channel is showing up, MAXH. It's blank at the moment. Since I'm not a Cinemax subscriber, I shouldn't be seeing this, but they'll probably get it all straightened out by the time the new tier goes into effect tomorrow.


I had no trouble getting signed up for the HDPlus package. The number in the letter didn't help, though - I had to get transferred over to the regular Customer Service desk.


I looked over the InHD website. It sure looks like this is going to be a disappointment. The HDNet channels are interesting, but InHD doesn't seem to have much to recommend it. As for ESPN, in the years that I've had their SD channel I've never found a reason to watch it, so I doubt that the HD channel will draw me in either.


----------



## Chris Isble

I have an LG LST-3510A. When I connect it to the cable, I get the following channels:


105-3 NBC

105-5 ABC

106-2 HDNet

106-3 HDNet Movies (just lost this tonight)


In addition, there are about 45 Audio Only channels, and three others that detect as scrambled. I will also occasionally stumble on an in progress In-Demand PPV movie on channels 75-20 thru 75-24.


Please post when the HD Plus tier is live. I will scan again and let you know if any of those channels are not scrambled.


Chris.


----------



## jtscherne

Cinemax HD is on.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *As far as I know, everythings set for tomorrow, except Cinemax. There was a glitch as of 5PM today. I hope they can resolve that. You should be able to order the HD pak tomorrow. I'm trying to confirm some more good news tonite. Will post asap.*


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Well, there's no sign of the HDPlus channels yet. So far the only thing that has happened is that HDNet Movies has disappeared. Apparently Adelphia is still working on getting the new service deployed.


----------



## rzgrip

After talking to two different rep's at Adelphia this morning, my opinion about them has not changed! Instead of gaining three new chanels, I lost two ( hd net and hd movies )! In the end they admitted a problem and hope to have it corrected today. However they have a promo for cinemax going on now and they added cinemax hd for now ( I do not subscribe to that tier ).


----------



## rzgrip

I made a mistake, Starz HD 752, not cinemax is now on for a promotional period. Also, HD net and HD movie have made a return! However none of the new ones, ESPN HD, Inhd1, or Inhd2, have shown up yet even though I signed up for them.


----------



## Dweezilz

do you see those (ESPN, inhd's) on the guide as no subscription etc...? I haven't signed up, but I do see those new channels in the guide & can tune to them & see the no sub message.


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

I called Adelphia a few hours ago. There are having technical problems with the new channels and don't know when they'll be working.


----------



## rzgrip

Several people at Adelphia said that I should automatically receive the new channels while another said that since I did not subscribe to them I will not be able to watch them! Sooooo, I subscribed to them for $5 a month and since they are having problems, I still cannot view them.


----------



## Dweezilz

let us know when they come in.


----------



## handsworth

I got all my channels about 4PM this afternoon. HDNet dropped off last night because they moved them to the pay tier but forgot about existing customers who should get them free till august 3rd. They fixed it today. If you are still missing channels, call them to get an impulse hit.


----------



## handsworth

GOOD NEWS!!! My sources have told me that the HD/DVR combo box will be available say Monday. If you want to pick it up, I would suggest that you contact your neighborhood payment office to insure that they have been delivered there. They are just now leaving a main warehouse for distribution. The cost is still $7.95/mo. for the box. You only have to pay the $25.00 installation charge if you request a truck to come out. This box records/playback perfectly in HD. (20 hrs HD or 90 hrs SD)


BAD NEWS!!! They are waiting for Scientific Atlanta to do a software upgrade on that box which won't happen til late July. What this means is that IEEE1394 and DVI ports are not active. No big deal for some people. Also the setup wizard reverted back to a prior version. Still no big deal.


Wanted: Anyone on Adelphia's system owning a cable card equiped TV and would like to be a tester, please email [email protected]


----------



## jtscherne

I got them all this morning, but only after I called in. The CS thought they were still having technical problems, but offered to reset the box anyway, after which they came in...


The moral of the story is: tell them to reset the box no matter what they say!


----------



## abrahavt

I just bought a TV with an OTA HD tuner and a QAM tuner. I was hoping to get channel 3 (NBC) OTA but I am unable to get any signals. I was hoping to get it working in order to see the Olympics. I am using a Terk indoor antenna. Do I need a more powerful antenna? As for the QAM tuner I am having trouble picking up any stations with it. Do Adelphia encrypt all their HDTV signals. I thought that as per FCC regulations they were not allowed to encrypt non premium channels. On calling themn I was told that I need a set top box from them in order to receive any HD signals.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *let us know when they come in.*



The new channels are all there this morning. I didn't have to do anything more - they just showed up.


----------



## Dweezilz

Terk indoor antenna's are notoriously bad. I'd have been suprised if you could have pulled in much with it. In fact, I've never had one bit of luck with ANY Terk antenna. I don't think they are very good at all. I am in Twinsburg, right next to you & I use a Channel Master 3010 Stealthtenna. It's very good & fairly small. It's not a table or TV top antenna, but it's only about 3 or 4 feet wide or so. In Solon, you might be able to get away with a Radio Shack copper double Bowtie antenna inside. I can get a few in with it, but I'm farther than you are from the towers (not much though). They are about $15 and are rectangle looking things with copper metal. The stealthtenna is only about $29 & has been great for me. You can find those online.


-Todd


----------



## mobgre

Still no new HD pak as of 9 am this morning. I too had to call freakin CS for the 3rd time. Asked them to reboot my boxes and wall-a it finally snapped in. From the few minutes I had to check it out INHD sure looked amazing.


----------



## roblake

Just called Adelphia to get my cable box rebooted, as the new HD channels didn't come through as authorized. Reboot did not help. They are crediting me with 2 days for lack of service. They say they are having technical difficulties ...


----------



## mobgre

Wow! You can probably upgrade your system now. 2 days divided by $5/month = about .33 cents. Gotta love Adelphia, Their soooo good to us.
























p.s. She had to do the re-boot 3 times before it worked for me.


----------



## rzgrip

Well, I gave them some time to fix their woes and still nothing. I called Adelphia service and they said I had to have a HD box. I replied that I have had one since January 4th! She then said that I had to subscribe to the HD tier. I said that I told Three reps yesterday to do just that! She added me again, and shazam, it worked. Like everyone says to do with Adalphia, keep trying!


----------



## paule123

Now that you Adelphia guys got me curious, I contacted Wide Open West and they indeed have an HD DVR now. It's $12.99/mo. and you can swap it out with the $6.99/mo. HD cable box, so it effectively is $6 more a month.

The box is Scientific Atlanta E8000HD.


I told 'em they gotta advertise this stuff better, I didn't know they had *any* kind of DVR until now... When I was in San Diego last month, Comcast has HDTV and DVR stuff plastered all over town, in PetCo Field, etc. You couldn't live in San Diego and *not* be aware of Comcast services...


Now the question is can I convince myself to spend yet *another* $6 a month for this toy...


-- Paul


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia did a better job of advertising the new HD Plus tier (letters to current HD subscribers and on air notices), but I don't completely blame them for not going totally crazy with advertising until they are sure the bugs are worked out.


Whether we like it or not, those of us who want it first tend to be the guinea pigs sometimes. Look at all the problems over the last day with the new channels. Last fall when HD was first introduced, Adelphia didn't advertise its availability at all; now they are running regular commercials and promotions about it...


----------



## dementia

Can any of you guys in medina or further south pick up nbc in hd? If so, what type of antenna r you using? I can get everything but that one. Thanks.


----------



## RexEctor

FWIW...


According to Adelphia CS, Ashtabula will have the HD DVR available on July 26th.


From what I'm reading here, I assume it will be the SA-8000HD.


Now that we have all the tools, when will we get all the channels?

(FOX, CBS, etc).


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by dementia_
> *Can any of you guys in medina or further south pick up nbc in hd? If so, what type of antenna r you using? I can get everything but that one. Thanks.*



I'm on the southern border of Medina (Halifax Lane), and I can get Channel 3 for the most part. I've got a Radio Shack 120" in the attic over the garage, and it works for almost all of the Cleveland stations well. Channel 3 is the problem child, and it's full of dropouts to the point that I'd say 4 out of the 7 days of the week It's not particularly watchable unless you can live with the pixellation and dropouts every couple of minutes.


I think if the antenna was higher (the garage is only one story) and outside, it would be a lot better.


If you're in Medina itself, Armstrong reportedly has a pretty good HD system including a PVR.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RexEctor_
> *FWIW...
> 
> 
> According to Adelphia CS, Ashtabula will have the HD DVR available on July 26th.
> 
> 
> From what I'm reading here, I assume it will be the SA-8000HD.
> 
> 
> Now that we have all the tools, when will we get all the channels?
> 
> (FOX, CBS, etc).*



Call back, the SA8000HD is already available. I picked it up last week in the Concord office near Mentor. They told me the same story, called back, and the guy said, yeah, they are in. Just call back, the CSR's are morons.


The box is nice, but like stated before has the very basic features. The big one for me, is that it doesn't have the UpConvert, Fixed, Pass Through settings, so you always have to stretch the screen for SDTV programming, bummer. Oh well, hopefully they will get the fix.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *I'm on the southern border of Medina (Halifax Lane), and I can get Channel 3 for the most part. I've got a Radio Shack 120" in the attic over the garage, and it works for almost all of the Cleveland stations well. Channel 3 is the problem child, and it's full of dropouts to the point that I'd say 4 out of the 7 days of the week It's not particularly watchable unless you can live with the pixellation and dropouts every couple of minutes.
> 
> 
> I think if the antenna was higher (the garage is only one story) and outside, it would be a lot better.
> 
> 
> If you're in Medina itself, Armstrong reportedly has a pretty good HD system including a PVR.*



I'm just northwest of Medina, and get marginal reception on both analog and digital channel 3. Most of the time 3 digital comes in OK with only occasional dropouts, but there are times when it's difficult to get. All other analog and digital Cleveland stations always come in excellent. I even get a better signal than 3 from 17-1 out of Canton, and my antenna's not even pointed in that direction. I recall that when I had Armstrong analog cable some time ago, 3 came in noisier than other locals, so there must a signal problem with channels 2 and 3 in this area.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by extremegamer_
> *Call back, the SA8000HD is already available. I picked it up last week in the Concord office near Mentor. They told me the same story, called back, and the guy said, yeah, they are in. Just call back, the CSR's are morons.
> 
> 
> The box is nice, but like stated before has the very basic features. The big one for me, is that it doesn't have the UpConvert, Fixed, Pass Through settings, so you always have to stretch the screen for SDTV programming, bummer. Oh well, hopefully they will get the fix.*



You are kidding. That sucks! Have you run through the setup wizard to see if those settings appear after you go through the resolution setup or is this a confirmed missing item. When the standard HD box 1st came out, it didn't have the pass-through , fixed, upconv. etc... but you could still manually switch to 480p so you could use the TV's formatting. If not, this means going through Svid for me because stretching SD locked in 1080i is horrible. So you can't manually switch it to 480p through componant?



-Todd


----------



## handsworth

I can't believe you got that box already!!







Any way, SA is supposed to to deliver the fix by EOM or early August. It should fix the DVI, the setup wizard and the IEEE1394 port.


Turn the box off, but leave the tv on.

Press the guide and info button at the same time and the setup wizard will appear. Confiure to you own tastes.

Turn tv on and by pressing the settings button once or twice you will get additional settings.


Looking at the vol/channel button on the STB. there is a button in the middle. Press and hold til a green light flashes. Release and press the vol down arrow. the box will toggle between dvr mode and HD mode. Press exit when the LED says HD. your box will now be in hd/dvr mode. It will perform as both.


To change format settings from 480 -720-1080, press settings button once. I believe there is a line item that will change it by using the remote.

The new software will update the setup wizard to the one we know now.


Oh BTW, my sources say WOIO is done. Need more details to post accurately.


----------



## jtscherne

Great news about WOIO (of course assuming it will be a freebie!) Now that leaves Fox (I assume WUAB won't be hard, since they're owned by the same people who own WOIO and don't have much HD programming anyway)


So in the last week we get ESPN and iNHD, the HD DVR, and the probability of CBS.


We finally have things that others don't! All you have to do is read the complaints on the programming board from the Time Warner people who don't have ESPN...


BTW, iNHD had the Montreal/Braves HD games on yesterday and tonight. For me, the HD sports they show make them worth the extra cash (along with ESPN of course!)


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *You are kidding. That sucks! Have you run through the setup wizard to see if those settings appear after you go through the resolution setup or is this a confirmed missing item. When the standard HD box 1st came out, it didn't have the pass-through , fixed, upconv. etc... but you could still manually switch to 480p so you could use the TV's formatting. If not, this means going through Svid for me because stretching SD locked in 1080i is horrible. So you can't manually switch it to 480p through componant?
> 
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Nope, have it on right now, just paused HDNET showing a Nascar race. Anyway, you can set it up to show the other formats, through an older looking set up wizard. Not nearly as nice as the one on the HDTV stand alone box. You can set it up and by hitting settings change through the formats though, but that's quite annoying. Oh well, hopefully a fix is coming.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *I can't believe you got that box already!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any way, SA is supposed to to deliver the fix by EOM or early August. It should fix the DVI, the setup wizard and the IEEE1394 port.
> 
> 
> Turn the box off, but leave the tv on.
> 
> Press the guide and info button at the same time and the setup wizard will appear. Confiure to you own tastes.
> 
> Turn tv on and by pressing the settings button once or twice you will get additional settings.
> 
> 
> Looking at the vol/channel button on the STB. there is a button in the middle. Press and hold til a green light flashes. Release and press the vol down arrow. the box will toggle between dvr mode and HD mode. Press exit when the LED says HD. your box will now be in hd/dvr mode. It will perform as both.
> 
> 
> To change format settings from 480 -720-1080, press settings button once. I believe there is a line item that will change it by using the remote.
> 
> The new software will update the setup wizard to the one we know now.
> 
> 
> Oh BTW, my sources say WOIO is done. Need more details to post accurately.*



Done both, the wizard is there, just it's an older looking version.


----------



## handsworth

Woke up this morning with an interesting voice mail. My info was incorrect!!!







It is CBS FOX 8 , not WOIO. I guess thats good news. More details to follow.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Woke up this morning with an interesting voice mail. My info was incorrect!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is CBS FOX 8 , not WOIO. I guess thats good news. More details to follow.*



At this point, I would rather have Fox for one reason, Super Bowl is on Fox this year, and if we don't get the other one till after January like I've heard, then I want to make sure I have the Super Bowl in HD.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by extremegamer_
> *Nope, have it on right now, just paused HDNET showing a Nascar race. Anyway, you can set it up to show the other formats, through an older looking set up wizard. Not nearly as nice as the one on the HDTV stand alone box. You can set it up and by hitting settings change through the formats though, but that's quite annoying. Oh well, hopefully a fix is coming.*



Well, it's good that it can at least still be manually switched. In fact, for some reason my current box always resets back to fixed after a few days so I always have to go into the setup & change it back to pass-thru each time this resets. Now that's definately annoying!







Sometimes it lasts a week, sometime only a day or two. I guess the DVR won't seem like quite a change for me then in that regard. HA! Hopefully they'll fix it. Thanks for the info.


----------



## jtscherne

I've seen the switchback to fixed too. I'm wondering if it's coming through the cable.


Fox is ok, and I agree about the importance of the superbowl. Plus, I suspect that the baseball playoffs and world series will be in HD.


But of course we want to see our "great" AFC team in high definition. (all sarcasm implied!)


Anybody out there have plans to have your TV calibrated? I had to miss the group buy in January and my set is about a year and a half old. I know there's one local person out there advertising that he's ISF certified, but I don't know anything about him.


----------



## ParsonsBri

I stopped by my Adelphia office on Saturday in North Olmsted just to see if they knew anything about the new HD DVR and sure enough, they had four in stock. I took 2 and will set them up this afternoon. As a longtime Tivo customer, I am interested to see how it performs. Right now my picture is in black and white through the component output. I have not run setup or anything, just plugged it in. I will post more once I get this figured out.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Well, that was quick! I set the output mode to component out and the box began to output a very nice HD picture. I then up all the screen formats as indicatd in the instructions. I played with the DVR functionality a little. A bit different from Tivo, but at least I can do some recording in HD without spending $1000 on the HD Tivo. Pretty cool technology. I will be interested to see if the firewire and DVI will work after the upgrade in August.


Until then, rush out now in a buying frenzy and get your box!


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Well, for those who haven't gotten their HD DVR boxes yet, you may encounter a but more difficulty at this point. An Adelphia email went out this morning telling the local offices not to distribute the new boxes. However, you can schedule a service visit to get the HD DVR. Apparently a lot of people were taking the new boxes home and then calling in for support. So Adelphia decided to require a service visit with the box to make sure it got set up correctly.


----------



## jtscherne

Here we go again... This happened when the HD boxes first came out last year. Handsworth referred to an installation charge if a technician came out. I hope this would be waived in this case.


I just called CS and they said they wouldn't be available until next Monday, but that they could be picked up in the office. Obviously information isn't getting around smoothly.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *I just called CS and they said they wouldn't be available until next Monday, but that they could be picked up in the office. Obviously information isn't getting around smoothly.*



Yeah, the CSR that I spoke with had heard that story, too. She was checking around and getting different information from different parts of Adelphia. We'll just have to see where the dust settles.


In any event, I've got a service person bringing the new box Wednesday with the charge for the call waived.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Did you guys actually go to the Adelphia payment center or just call? I stopped in to get mine on Saturday and they had already received an email about not giving them out. The lady I spoke to thought that was silly and after I explained that I was proficient at this stuff, they gave me two. My neighbor picked one up on Friday and another yesterday at North Olmsted. He said they received the mother lode and there were plenty available.


This thing is a piece of cake to setup with the unusually clear and concise instructions they give at pick up.


As many have already mentioned in this thread, CSR's on the phone can be, well, lets just say not very knowledgeable or helpful. Go to the store!


----------



## bassguitarman

WEAO/WNEO channel 50 dtv is in Copley Ohio. They shut down channel 49 for a few days but its back up and no sign of channel 50 yet.

PBS in Akron area.


----------



## jtscherne

I went to the centers near me on Saturday (Triangle and Cleveland Heights) and they didn't have them. I went to Triangle today and they didn't have them and she called Cleveland Heights and they didn't have them either.


However, she also said that even if they had them, they were told not to release them until Monday the 26th.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *Did you guys actually go to the Adelphia payment center or just call? I stopped in to get mine on Saturday and they had already received an email about not giving them out. The lady I spoke to thought that was silly and after I explained that I was proficient at this stuff, they gave me two. My neighbor picked one up on Friday and another yesterday at North Olmsted. He said they received the mother lode and there were plenty available.
> *


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, I picked my up this afternoon, no questions asked.


I received a call earlier today from a CSR working at the Triangle Office (University Circle), who told me that Severance had plenty of boxes and that they were available for immediate pick-up. The Triangle CSR went beyond the call and I immediately took my old HD box in and exchanged it.


Not sure how many offices have them yet, but they are definitely appearing...


----------



## gass

I've been reading this thread for awhile and decided to reg. FYI Here in SW Portage Co. I get ALL, DTV, OTA signals..."during the day" In the evening however, 3, ( yea I know) and 19 stink. Very strange. I'm using a Channel Master 60" in the attic 2nd story.


I heard 19 installed the wrong antenna?!?


Great thread everyone THANKS!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gass_
> *I've been reading this thread for awhile and decided to reg. FYI Here in SW Portage Co. I get ALL, DTV, OTA signals..."during the day" In the evening however, 3, ( yea I know) and 19 stink. Very strange. I'm using a Channel Master 60" in the attic 2nd story.
> 
> 
> I heard 19 installed the wrong antenna?!?
> 
> 
> Great thread everyone THANKS!*



19 (digital 10) installed the wrong antenna? That doesn't sound good. I also have trouble with 19 and 3 (digital 2). They're also low power @ 3.5kw(10) and 8kw(2) which I'm sure doesn't help. I wonder if 2 has the correct antenna...Seems like 2 has really been bad lately. I like the doppler radar(3-3) because it's almost current. The weatherchannel.com radar is about a half hour behind.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Your and everyone elses problems with 19 and 3 probably stem from the fact that they are on VHF. And really from what I have read, VHF is a waste with digital transmissions.


----------



## panjj

As was stated, the HD DVR box is available at the Cleveland Heights office (picked up one yesterday). However, I note that I no longer get ESPN HD and the two IN HD channels. The latest I heard was they were available for awhile (I got them before) but that they will not be available again til early august. Is that what everyone else is getting?


Also, I was told there is an option that results in the subscriber getting all HD stations that is a good buy (if you already get HBO, etc.). Any info on this? Thanks.


----------



## jtscherne

Just call in and ask them to flash the box. I had the same problem when I first brought the HD DVR box home and it took a couple of different CSRs to get things working again (first time, they got the HD plus channels working, but shut off the DVR functions!) Just keep trying and tell them that others in the area are getting the channels with no problems with the new boxes.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by panjj_
> *However, I note that I no longer get ESPN HD and the two IN HD channels. The latest I heard was they were available for awhile (I got them before) but that they will not be available again til early august. Is that what everyone else is getting?*



Adelphia delivered my SA8000HD yesterday morning. He had no trouble getting the box provisioned correctly - all the HD channels are there. I'm pretty impressed with the box itself - it has some nice capabilities. This is the first time I've ever worked with a DVR.


My only concern is that I think I was misinformed on the overall cost of this thing. I thought it was basically free - that the same $7.95 charge that applied to the standard HD box also applied to the DVR. But on the work order that Adelphia left me yesterday, it appears that there is an additional $4.95 charge to be added to my monthly bill on top of the $7.95. Does anyone know for sure?


Added note: I just called Adelphia and confirmed it. There is an additional charge of $4.95 monthly for the DVR service. I'm a little ticked off that this isn't mentioned anywhere on their website, nor did anyone mention it anywhere in either the ordering or delivery of this unit. They just tried to slip it past me.


Adelphia provides pretty good service in my opinion, but they just keep nickel and diming us with these charges. $5 here, $5 there.... my Adelphia bill is now somewhere around $120 a month - and I don't even have any premium channels!


----------



## panjj

Just an update. I had adelphia flash my HD DVR three more times and I still don't get ESPNHD and the two INHD channels. Are others getting those channels?? Thanks. (Hey, spare me the "flash" jokes, uh?)


----------



## roblake

I had Adellphia flash mine again yesterday and it started getting the new channels. Your Mileage May Vary.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Adelphia delivered my SA8000HD yesterday morning. He had no trouble getting the box provisioned correctly - all the HD channels are there. I'm pretty impressed with the box itself - it has some nice capabilities. This is the first time I've ever worked with a DVR.
> 
> 
> My only concern is that I think I was misinformed on the overall cost of this thing. I thought it was basically free - that the same $7.95 charge that applied to the standard HD box also applied to the DVR. But on the work order that Adelphia left me yesterday, it appears that there is an additional $4.95 charge to be added to my monthly bill on top of the $7.95. Does anyone know for sure?
> 
> 
> Added note: I just called Adelphia and confirmed it. There is an additional charge of $4.95 monthly for the DVR service. I'm a little ticked off that this isn't mentioned anywhere on their website, nor did anyone mention it anywhere in either the ordering or delivery of this unit. They just tried to slip it past me.
> 
> 
> Adelphia provides pretty good service in my opinion, but they just keep nickel and diming us with these charges. $5 here, $5 there.... my Adelphia bill is now somewhere around $120 a month - and I don't even have any premium channels!*



Yep I'm sure that's the charge. They charge the same for the standard DVR service as well, although the fee was waived for the several months. Considering Dish charges more for their DVR service plus you have to purchase a $900 box, I guess it's not bad in that light.










-Todd


ps - you pay $120 with no premiums?? Wow, that isn't good. I pay like $135 with everything, so for $15 more, you'll have every premium channel, plus add 4 more HD channels (HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax). You might want to look into that at this point.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Yep I'm sure that's the charge. They charge the same for the standard DVR service as well, although the fee was waived for the several months. Considering Dish charges more for their DVR service plus you have to purchase a $900 box, I guess it's not bad in that light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Todd
> 
> 
> ps - you pay $120 with no premiums?? Wow, that isn't good. I pay like $135 with everything, so for $15 more, you'll have every premium channel, plus add 4 more HD channels (HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax). You might want to look into that at this point.*



The downside is you can only record 7-9 hours of HD with the Adelphia box.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *The downside is you can only record 7-9 hours of HD with the Adelphia box.*



Agreed that sucks. And believe me, to get 25 hours, if I had $999 for a Dish 911, I'd do it!







 I'll take the 7-9 hours for now at little cost and deal with it. When I first got my Dish 7100 a few years ago, I had only 5-6 hours total which amounted to lots of juggling & deleting, but since there's little to lose here, it's fine for what it is. The key is no big money outlay which means I have something instead of nothing since I can't afford anything more.


----------



## handsworth

I was told that the combo box could record 20 hrs of HD, or 90 hrs of SD, or somewhere inbetween when recording both. It has a 160 gig HD. I will try to verify these numbers.


----------



## jtscherne

Question for someone else who has an Adelphia HD DVR:


Are you having problems recording while watching TV? I have attempted to do this a number of times; the recording shows as scheduled, but doesn't actually record. One time, I scheduled a second recording while the first was not recording, and the box changed channels at the specific time and started recording the second program!


Anyone else having this problem? My other non-HD DVR records perfectly, even when I'm watching TV. Is there something wrong, or am I just doing something wrong?


Thanks!


----------



## jtscherne

Going through the diagnostic screens, I was able to verify that the HD is definitely 160 gig. If you read through the thread noted below, our boxes seem very similar to the software described in the thread (SARA refers to the specific DVR software; there is at least one other possible version). It indicates approximately 20 hours of HD. Hopefully Handsworth will be able to verify.

SA8000HD DVR - Cox - SARA - Setup and Review Guide 



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *I was told that the combo box could record 20 hrs of HD, or 90 hrs of SD, or somewhere inbetween when recording both. It has a 160 gig HD. I will try to verify these numbers.*


----------



## Shark73

Does anyone know if I can get the free (Locals, HDNet's) HD channels and the pay tier HD pack from Adelphia with only a basic cable w/Internet sub? Or do I need to sub to a digital cable sub? I've received two conflicting answers from Adelphia CSR's in the past week.


Thanks!


Jim


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Does anyone know if I can get the free (Locals, HDNet's) HD channels and the pay tier HD pack from Adelphia with only a basic cable w/Internet sub? Or do I need to sub to a digital cable sub?*



I would assume that you need the basic digital service as a prereq since that's how the HD signals are delivered. But only Adelphia can tell you for sure. BTW, the HDNet channels are now part of the HD Plus pack, no longer free (effective next week).


----------



## paule123

It doesn't look like WEWS is multicasting the Dems convention coverage... anybody else tried it yet? looked for a 5-2?


Not that it matters, PBS, CSPAN, and CNN are covering it, LOL... and at 10:00 HDNet coverage with Bill and Hillary in glorious HD...


-- Paul


----------



## adriancuc

Here is the answer I got from Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Ops. regarding poor reception of WKYC in Mentor Area.


"Dear Adrian,


Thank-you for your email. I have delayed my response because we have been discussing this issue internally. I can tell you that we are using 3-2 for good business reasons and that we are not prepared to stop using it at this time. However, because of a number of complaints like yours we do plan to install a statistical multiplexer that will allocate bandwidth dynamically, with the net result being a better HDTV picture. Unfortunately this device is very expensive and I cannot tell you just how soon it will be installed. What I can say for sure is that we value you as a viewer and we intend to fully address this issue as soon as possible.


Cordially yours,


Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Ops"








> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Guys I am emailing this to WKYC about channel 3-2. Please add your name to the bottom and email it as well. I am sending it to [email protected] as was listed earlier in the thread. If anyone knows someone better to send it to, please post it.
> 
> 
> The olympics are coming up, and NBC has NASCAR now in Widescreen, and those are both very fast moving sports. Pixillation will be horrible and channel 3-2 needs to be turned off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear WKYC,
> 
> 
> I have been talking with many other HDTV owners in the Cleveland area and we all agree that substation 3-2 is not necessary. By allocating bandwidth on your broadcast to 3-2, channel 3-1 suffers dramatically. During any scenes with motion, the screen is filled with pixilation. Because of this, the HDTV picture on WKYC is the worst of all the networks in Cleveland currently broadcasting in HD. Having 3-2 is also unneccassy for HDTV owners. There is no reason for us to ever watch 3-2 because there is no reason not to watch the HD picture on 3-1. Why on earth would we choose to watch Law and Order, or any other NBC program on channel 3-2 in standard definition, when we have the HD picture on 3-1.
> 
> 
> I am asking you to please stop broadcasting channel 3-2 on your digital station. The picture quality on 3-1 suffers greatly, and as HDTV owners, we have no reason to watch 3-2.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your time, and please turn this broadcast off,
> 
> 
> Mike Stuewe*


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Got the same response. Rex seems cool. I emailed him back asking him out the "stat mux" works and I am more confused now, but overall its good to know that WKYC hears that we dont like the wasted bandwidth.


----------



## StanZ

I have emailed WEWS to ask them whether or not they would carry the HD multicast of the convention.


I have not yet received a response.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *I have emailed WEWS to ask them whether or not they would carry the HD multicast of the convention.
> 
> 
> I have not yet received a response.*



Unfortunately it's not a Hi-Def multicast from what I understand - it is just the experimental ABC News channel transmitted digitally SD 4:3 ...


That's why I wasn't too disappointed about not having it, with all the other SD coverage available out there, and HDNet in convention prime time every night.


-- Paul


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *Got the same response. Rex seems cool. I emailed him back asking him out the "stat mux" works and I am more confused now, but overall its good to know that WKYC hears that we dont like the wasted bandwidth.*



I can understand how a stat mux would help if the subchannels 3-1 and 3-2 were transmitting different content, but I'm a little lost on how it helps much when both channels have the same content, and each will be demanding bursts of bandwidth at the exact same time (for high motion sports scenes for example)...


I think it would work better in scenarios where you had, for example, an anchorman talking head (little scene change) on one channel, and sports on the other channel, then the stat mux would dynamically borrow bandwidth from the anchorman and give it to the sports channel for better PQ.



-- Paul


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Paul I was thinking the same exact thing, and will probably email Rex back.


----------



## jtscherne

Just spotted a new channel: 799, labelled HdPV1.


It's Pay Per View.


No listings yet, though.


----------



## Shark73

It might be the Tyson fight in HD....That's this weekend, no?


----------



## jtscherne

Tyson is on Friday, so you're probably right.


I'm not interested, but it's a good idea to offer it.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Does anyone know if I can get the free (Locals, HDNet's) HD channels and the pay tier HD pack from Adelphia with only a basic cable w/Internet sub? Or do I need to sub to a digital cable sub? I've received two conflicting answers from Adelphia CSR's in the past week.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Jim*



If you have your own QAM tuner, you can get the local channels in HD for free, assuming that the digital signal is available in your area. Right now, that's only NBC and ABC. I am also currently receiving HDNet, and HDNet Movies, but one or both of them is supposed to move to the pay tier HD pack on August 1st.


If you want the pay tier, you need their box, and that means following their subscription rules. I believe they require you to subscribe to digital cable to get the box.


-Chris.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *
> 
> 
> "I can tell you that we are using 3-2 for good business reasons and that we are not prepared to stop using it at this time."
> 
> 
> Paul I was thinking the same exact thing, and will probably email Rex back.*



When you email him back, would you please ask what the "good business reason" is to broadcast 3-2? I'm still trying to figure out what it is.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah no kidding. I can't figure that one out yet either. They don't broadcast HD on that channel (correct?) so it's just the digital version of the analog 4:3 programming with black bars. I guess for all those 4:3 HD TV's out there with owners who would rather watch the SD with no bars vs. HD with bars on top/bottom, it makes plenty of sense!







I'm sure people got 4:3 HDTV's to watch digital SD. Yeah right.


-Todd


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Yeah no kidding. I can't figure that one out yet either. They don't broadcast HD on that channel (correct?) so it's just the digital version of the analog 4:3 programming with black bars. I guess for all those 4:3 HD TV's out there with owners who would rather watch the SD with no bars vs. HD with bars on top/bottom, it makes plenty of sense!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure people got 4:3 HDTV's to watch digital SD. Yeah right.*



Chances are the "good business reason" has nothing to do with viewers. Remember that the station's REAL customers are not viewers but advertisers. It may be that some of the contracts that WKYC has with its advertisers somehow require them to run a standard SD version of their signal over their digital carrier. So 3-2 may allow them to sell more ads, or to charge more for the ones that they carry. Just a guess.


----------



## rdalcanto

In anticipation of the olympics, I tried getting a signal on 3-1 - NOTHING! I almost never get a signal on this station. I called the station but got the engineers voice mail - I doubt I'll get an answer. Does anyone get a signal? Is it on only certain times of the day?


Thanks,

Rick


----------



## oldavnut

Regarding Adelphia HD DVR box,

Tech. came out and replaced HD STB with new SA-8000. Old HD box was connected to TV by DVI and PQ was fantastic in HD signal and even SD. SA-8000 has DVI, which doesn't work. Is it normal? DVI outlet in SA-8000 is only for future use? I connected with components and PQ is not so great as DVI connection. Do I have to do anything, such as changing setting, save 720p signal etc.? Thank you in advance.


----------



## jtscherne

If you read a few posts back, you'll see a short discussion about this issue. The initial HD DVR boxes have an older software version that will eventually be upgraded to a version that should activate the DVI.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rdalcanto_
> *In anticipation of the olympics, I tried getting a signal on 3-1 - NOTHING! I almost never get a signal on this station. I called the station but got the engineers voice mail - I doubt I'll get an answer. Does anyone get a signal? Is it on only certain times of the day?*



I realize that some people have trouble getting channel 3, but I've never had any trouble here in Geauga County. I have more trouble with CBS and UPN than I do with NBC, though they're all pretty good at this point. I suspect that those who have trouble getting WKYC may not be using an antenna that properly covers the entire VHF band. Remember that this station is at the lowest possible VHF frequency, while most digital stations are up on the UHF band. So if your antenna isn't well-tuned for the low frequencies, you're likely to have trouble with WKYC.


----------



## rdalcanto




> Quote:
> Remember that this station is at the lowest possible VHF frequency, while most digital stations are up on the UHF band. So if your antenna isn't well-tuned for the low frequencies, you're likely to have trouble with WKYC.



I get the analog signal with the same antenna. Would the digital be on a different frequency? Could it still be the antenna? Sorry if this is a stupid question....


Thanks,

Rick


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rdalcanto_
> *I get the analog signal with the same antenna. Would the digital be on a different frequency? Could it still be the antenna? Sorry if this is a stupid question....*



It's not the same frequency, the digital broadcast actually operates on VHF channel 2. But, obviously, the analog channel 3 isn't much higher. Still, WKYC analog uses more than 10 times as much power as WKYC digital, so you may still find that you need a better antenna for the digital signal. WKYC's digital signal is fairly low in power, so that's definitely still a factor.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Chances are the "good business reason" has nothing to do with viewers. Remember that the station's REAL customers are not viewers but advertisers. It may be that some of the contracts that WKYC has with its advertisers somehow require them to run a standard SD version of their signal over their digital carrier. So 3-2 may allow them to sell more ads, or to charge more for the ones that they carry. Just a guess.*



This sounds at least remotely plausible, and it's the best guess I've heard so far. The only other reason I've ever heard is that they're using the digital signal for distribution to cable companies. However that never made sense to me, as the other stations in the area may produce a digital signal that doesn't take up any broadcast bandwidth.


It just really boils my butt (is that even an expression?







) that WKYC has advertising tickers on the bottom of their screen about being #1 in HDTV, when they have the lousiest excuse for a digital broadcast around: ridiculously low power, the lowest VHF frequency you can get, and multicasting of useless signals. And I'm seriously wondering how this miracle panacea of the dynamic bandwidth allocation is going to solve anything at all since both 3-1 and 3-2 carry the same material that will have the same amount of fast-action on the screen at the same time.


And as for 3-2 being a catch-all for 4:3 screens without the black bars, I've got a 4:3. And I would much rather either watch the D* signal (even with its lousy compression) or the analog OTA signal since the digital 3-2 is so prone to dropout and pixellation that it's unwatchable anyway. I'm sure the folks living north of St. Clair downtown really enjoy it, though.


----------



## oldavnut




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *If you read a few posts back, you'll see a short discussion about this issue. The initial HD DVR boxes have an older software version that will eventually be upgraded to a version that should activate the DVI.*



Thanks, jts.

I found a DVR thread talking about SA8000 you participated, and learned a lot. Now, DVI will be activated on September earliest. Although someone said the difference between DVI and components is marginal in the thread, it seems too obvious to me. I'm considering changing back to HD box until DVI in SA8000 is activated. Other consideration is tweaking DVR box to optimum. Any thought?


----------



## PhilJSmith67




> Quote:
> ... WKYC analog uses more than 10 times as much power as WKYC digital, so you may still find that you need a better antenna for the digital signal. WKYC's digital signal is fairly low in power ...



ERP for 8VSB/ATSC signals is measured differently than NTSC. The end result is that an analog station's ERP is approximately equivalent to a digital station with only 1/5 of the power, at the same frequency. If you examine the max-powered UHF stations, you'll see that 5000kW is the max for analog, and 1000kW is the max ERP for digital; and yet, two adjacent-channel stations with those power levels have the same coverage area. The exact 5:1 ratio isn't the same for VHF-Low and VHF-High, but it is similar.


What that means is that WKYC-DT Channel 2 will be similar to a 40kW analog station on 2, which is about 40% as potent as WKYC-TV Channel 3, instead of what appears to be 10%.


8kW is pretty good for Channel 2. In the Chicago area, the VHF-Low reception woes continue with WBBM-DT on 3, who after finally bumping up to 3.7kW is now trying for 4.4kW.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PhilJSmith67_
> *ERP for 8VSB/ATSC signals is measured differently than NTSC. The end result is that an analog station's ERP is approximately equivalent to a digital station with only 1/5 of the power, at the same frequency. If you examine the max-powered UHF stations, you'll see that 5000kW is the max for analog, and 1000kW is the max ERP for digital; and yet, two adjacent-channel stations with those power levels have the same coverage area. The exact 5:1 ratio isn't the same for VHF-Low and VHF-High, but it is similar.
> 
> 
> What that means is that WKYC-DT Channel 2 will be similar to a 40kW analog station on 2, which is about 40% as potent as WKYC-TV Channel 3, instead of what appears to be 10%.
> 
> 
> 8kW is pretty good for Channel 2. In the Chicago area, the VHF-Low reception woes continue with WBBM-DT on 3, who after finally bumping up to 3.7kW is now trying for 4.4kW.*



Thanks for that explanation. I knew that the digital broadcasts were generally able to cover the same area with less power, but I didn't realize that the difference was so dramatic. Still, I suspect that WKYC-DT's combination of low power at a low frequency causes a lot of reception problems. Some antennas that work well for all the other stations may still not do a very good job with this combination.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rdalcanto_
> *In anticipation of the olympics, I tried getting a signal on 3-1 - NOTHING! I almost never get a signal on this station. I called the station but got the engineers voice mail - I doubt I'll get an answer. Does anyone get a signal? Is it on only certain times of the day?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick*



I have a VERY difficult time in Twinsburg pulling NBC in. I basically rely on Adelphia because on most days, I can't get it in OTA. I'm using a Channel Master Stealthtenna outside on a poll so it's a good one. I'm guessing the only way I'm pulling that one in from here would be a large roof antenna.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *Thanks, jts.
> 
> I found a DVR thread talking about SA8000 you participated, and learned a lot. Now, DVI will be activated on September earliest. Although someone said the difference between DVI and components is marginal in the thread, it seems too obvious to me. I'm considering changing back to HD box until DVI in SA8000 is activated. Other consideration is tweaking DVR box to optimum. Any thought?*



Spoke to someone at Adelphia yesterday & said a software upgrade will happen in about 3-4 weeks which will enable the resolution 'pass-through' to we don't need to manually switch from 1080i to 480i. Maybe the DVI will be enabled at that point too.


-Todd


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *I have emailed WEWS to ask them whether or not they would carry the HD multicast of the convention.
> *



Here is the pertinent part of their response -- the day AFTER the convention.

As of now we are only able to broadcast our main

digital channel as it requires additional equipment to handle any

subchannels.


----------



## PhilJSmith67




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I have a VERY difficult time in Twinsburg pulling NBC in. I basically rely on Adelphia because on most days, I can't get it in OTA. I'm using a Channel Master Stealthtenna outside on a poll so it's a good one. I'm guessing the only way I'm pulling that one in from here would be a large roof antenna.
> 
> 
> -Todd*



I essentially got flamed on another board by a couple engineers for saying this last year, but I will continue drumming this beat until some of the holdouts finally cave:

*LOW-BAND VHF SUCKS!

CHANNELS TWO THROUGH SIX SHOULD BE ELIMINATED!*


People love portability in small packages. Just look at the explosive growth of wireless networking... Some of you are probably reading this right now via an 802.11a/b/g adapter.


Have you seen a handheld TV from the U.K.? UHF only. Simple. One band. 10" antenna. And, most of all, it works equally well on Channel 21 as it does on 69.


But, what do we have here? We've got stations where a portable TV would theoretically need an antenna about 5 feet long to receive as well as VHF-High or UHF stations. And, even with that, we also are graced with transient electrical noises, lightning static, and E-Skip interference. And for what? So that in the most mountainous areas of the country (where the fewest people live!) John Q. Public can stand proud and say that he can get one station in black-and-white down by the river?


Meanwhile, 15 million other people who still depend on over-the-air stations have to erect antennas, some of which are a sore spot for HOAs. And, just then, when the $150+labor antenna system is in place, a neighbor's piña-colada-making activities wipes out the entire ending of an hour-long show, of an eight-week miniseries, that you're recording while working the late shift.


Bring on the engineers that are married to VHF-Low. I'll introduce you to the *rest* of the public... The accountants, the iron workers, people watching a game on the porch, and the parent making one dollar over minimum wage that just wants to watch a little TV while making dinner for the kids... These people already have enough complication in their lives, and they shouldn't have to learn terms like "transients, guy wires, and sporadic E" just to watch a couple of their local stations without having to pay for cable or satellite service.


----------



## oldavnut




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Maybe the DVI will be enabled at that point too.
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Thanks.

Does anybody know what kind and version of software being used in Adelphia HD-DVR? I heard it is Sara and it's new version is already out, but no DVI activation. I don't know it is fact or rumor.


----------



## gass

You sound like my wife...but I have to agree. I've worked in wireless comm since the mid 80's and I love this chit! But to this day, when I try to explain to anyone I know what it is I do for a living....YR!


----------



## jtscherne

Did anyone in the Cleveland area do any recording with your HD-DVR last night? I recorded two programs (one HD, one SD). Both were unwatchable because of audio stuttering. I made a brief recording this morning, which worked fine.


----------



## roblake

I haven't sprung for the HDVR box yet. I'm wondering: I want to record some of the Olympics in HD, but then re-record it to VHS tape in SD. Can the HDVR box Adelphia provides do this?


----------



## oldavnut




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Did anyone in the Cleveland area do any recording with your HD-DVR last night? I recorded two programs (one HD, one SD). Both were unwatchable because of audio stuttering. I made a brief recording this morning, which worked fine.*



I recorded one SD program and it is OK.


----------



## bubblegum1647

Can someone tell me if they have and sound problems when watching digital cable? I live in Medina have Armstrong cable, Have HD DVR Motorola 6400 box. Have ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET MOVIES. PBS, and Locals. When watching digital local channels mostly but have heard it also on HD channels the sound goes up and down like crazy, It will go to a whisper almost than back to normal. I talk to Armstrong and they said its not there problem that it comes like that from the stations. is this true or is there a problem at Armstrong or could cable box be bad? Other people in my neighborhood have same problem including a Armstrong employee. Do any others having Adelphia, Comcast, Time warner etc have this problem? Sure would like to get this fixed. Any help that I could pass on to Armstrong would be appreciated.


----------



## paule123

You Adelphia guys got me jealous so I got the SA8000HD via Wide Open West on Saturday. Running SARA v1.82.12.a5


So far, so good. This is an improvement over the 3250HD in that I now have the "#" button on the remote to do instant wide/zoom/normal mode. Previously I had to go into the 3250HD setting button to do that.


Initial impressions - very impressive! I've never played with a DVR before, and I'm pretty happy with it. Recording SD and HD seems fine, the dual tuner PIP feature is a great improvement.


I asked the install tech about when firewire and DVI would be enabled, he said "in a couple months" FWIW. He said that when that software rev is available the whole box would have to be swapped out? No software upgrade over the wire? Sounds odd to me....


-- Paul


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia gets software updates over the wire, so I suspect he's mistaken. Our first HD boxes had the same basic software as these first HD DVRs and eventually updated without the user having to do anything.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bubblegum1647_
> *Can someone tell me if they have and sound problems when watching digital cable? I live in Medina have Armstrong cable, Have HD DVR Motorola 6400 box. Have ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET MOVIES. PBS, and Locals. When watching digital local channels mostly but have heard it also on HD channels the sound goes up and down like crazy, It will go to a whisper almost than back to normal. I talk to Armstrong and they said its not there problem that it comes like that from the stations. is this true or is there a problem at Armstrong or could cable box be bad? Other people in my neighborhood have same problem including a Armstrong employee. Do any others having Adelphia, Comcast, Time warner etc have this problem? Sure would like to get this fixed. Any help that I could pass on to Armstrong would be appreciated.*



Sounds like an Armstrong or Moto box problem to me. I do notice a difference in volume level going from the HD stations to the regular stations (on Wide Open West on the SA3250HD and SA8000HD), but I don't notice any fluctuations within individual channels. On the SA boxes there's a "wide/narrow" dynamic range setting on the audio that people have reported may help with the problem you describe - maybe you want to see if the Motorola box has such a setting?


-- Paul


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *Thanks, jts.
> 
> I found a DVR thread talking about SA8000 you participated, and learned a lot. Now, DVI will be activated on September earliest. Although someone said the difference between DVI and components is marginal in the thread, it seems too obvious to me. I'm considering changing back to HD box until DVI in SA8000 is activated. Other consideration is tweaking DVR box to optimum. Any thought?*



Don't know if this is possible - but are you sure the SA8000 is set up correctly to output in 720p or 1080i mode? Because I don't really see a difference between DVI and components, and I think I'm pretty picky about PQ...


The reason I say that is I got a Hughes HTL-HD on D* last week and was checking out the HD channels (no I did not read any directions







) and although it looked "pretty good" something did not seem right... When I read the directions, I discovered the box was outputting 480p at all times instead of going "native" depending on the input signal... Once I pressed the "format" button to correctly pass thru the signals, what a difference, LOL...


-- Paul


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by roblake_
> *I haven't sprung for the HDVR box yet. I'm wondering: I want to record some of the Olympics in HD, but then re-record it to VHS tape in SD. Can the HDVR box Adelphia provides do this?*



You *should* be able to do this, as the SA8000HD has a set of "VCR archive" jacks (composite video, and L/R audio). There was a thread on how to do this yesterday, but I can't find it now. How you do it changes slightly depending on the software rev in the STB.


Update: I just tried this, and it worked. In your list of recorded items, there is a "copy to VCR" option. Cool feature - while the box is playing the archived item out the composite jack for "VCR archive" connection, you can continue to watch TV!


Note: I crashed the box hard trying to play back an HDNet recording while I was recording tonight's ESPNHD baseball game - I guess such is the nature of this "beta" STB software we're playing with, LOL...


-- Paul


----------



## handsworth

Adelphia's combo box is using SARA v. 182.8.1


----------



## Shark73

Did anyone catch Fox testing the HD system last night? I recorded the North Shore on my HD TiVo and they had Super Bowl 36 on which looked fantastic.


It's good to see that they are ready to go.


----------



## cristo28

I am out here in Avon and I am thinking about switching from Direct TV to adelphia primarily for the HD DVR and I have few questions.


1. Is the HD DVR box out, customer service says no, but a quick glance from this forum seems to indicate that it is. If it is, how is it? How many hours does it record and does it have a DVI output?


2. Is ESPN HD currently available, again a disagreement between Customer service and there own web page.


3. Is the hd service through adelphia reliable?


Thanks


John


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *1. Is the HD DVR box out, customer service says no, but a quick glance from this forum seems to indicate that it is. If it is, how is it? How many hours does it record and does it have a DVI output?
> 
> 
> 2. Is ESPN HD currently available, again a disagreement between Customer service and there own web page.
> 
> 
> 3. Is the hd service through adelphia reliable?*



Yes, the HD DVR is out. It works well, and can hold about 20 hours of HD. It has a DVI output, but DVI is not active yet on it. A firmware update will be sent by Adelphia to the box sometime this fall to activate it.


Yes, ESPN HD is available on channel 752. It's part of the HD Plus package. Don't expect much HD content on it, though - much of what they broadcast is still SD.


Based on my experience of the last week or so, the HD service is not particularly reliable. I've had many major dropouts causing the screen to lock up or go blank for minutes at a time. In one case, the DVR simply stopped recording a show right in the middle of it because the signal vanished. I don't know whether or not others are having this problem - I intend to call Adelphia to set a service person to take a look at it. Interestingly, though, this problem has only been occuring for the last week or so. There's been no change here that might have triggered it, but two new neighbors have moved in recently, so there may have been some cable activity in the area.


----------



## cristo28

DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input? Thanks for all your help.


Regards,


John


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bubblegum1647_
> *Can someone tell me if they have and sound problems when watching digital cable? I live in Medina have Armstrong cable, Have HD DVR Motorola 6400 box. Have ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET MOVIES. PBS, and Locals.*



So which PBS station is broadcasting HD? Is this a Cleveland local? Wondering if someone has the equipment just not the broadcasting capability yet.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input?*



I've never noted any difference between DVI and component. The component outputs of the SA8000HD look fine to me. When they get the DVI working, I'll give it a try, but for now I'm getting an excellent picture.


I think I remember 90 being cited as the number of hours of SD, but don't hold me to that.


No, there's no input for an antenna. It wouldn't be very useful anyway, since this is a QAM tuner and OTA signals are broadcast in 8VSB. I agree that I'd like the ability to capture shows over the air as well as over cable, but it would take a lot more than just an additional input to do that.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input? Thanks for all your help.
> *



At the risk of being flamed, there is no perceptible difference between component and DVI (at least on my 42" plasma). I wouldn't let that stop you from getting the unit...


SA website says with 80GB HD, you get 30 to 50 hrs of SD recording, and these 8000HD boxes have 160GB drives, so I guess you should be in the 60 - 100 hour range with SD.


This is a good thread on the SA8000HD, especially the first couple messages describing the features:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ghlight=8000hd 


There's no external antenna input. Here's a link to the setup guide with all the hookups:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/exp...d/4001025B.pdf 



-- Paul


----------



## cristo28

Thanks to all, your info has been great. How do others who have the service view those local station that are broadcast in HD but not yet on adephia. Imparticularly cbs and the soon to be hd fox.


Regards,


John


----------



## Shark73

If you only have cable you don't watch the HD channels of CBS and Fox. Otherwise, you can get an over the air HD receiver.


In my case, I have Directv and Adelphia so I get ABC, CBS, Fox & UPN via over the air and NBC via Adelphia.


I think someone said that Fox HD is in the works for Adelphia when they go live in Sept.


----------



## SteveC

ZManCartFan,

The local PBS stations that are currently broadcasting digitally are WNEO channel 46 in Alliance and WEAO channel 50 in Akron. Titantv.com is an excellent resource to see what stations are broadcasting and what they are broadcasting. Antennaweb.org can give you the station's transmitter compass direction and distance from your location.

Steve


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *If you only have cable you don't watch the HD channels of CBS and Fox.*



...unless you have cable via Wide Open West


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *...unless you have cable via Wide Open West
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Very good point!


----------



## oldavnut




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input? Thanks for all your help.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> John*



A lot of people said no difference or marginal difference. To me there is a lot of difference, especially SD, compared to Adelphia HD box (no DVR). I set it 1080i for HD channels and 480i for SD. If 720p for HD, picture is stretched. HD-DVR is not automatically convert signals, whereas regular HD box with DVI connection is automatically converting.

Since I'm a novice in this area, I'll accept any other opinions and different set up ideas.

Thanks.


----------



## panjj

I agree with the others that the current picture quality through component (talking Adelphia here) is excellent. I was somewhat skeptical at what might be the result of having the costly ISF calibration on my set (a GWII) but the results coupled with cable HD (true HD) stations is oustandingly sharp and colorful. It will be difficult to achieve improvement, in my opinion, when DVI is activated.


I also have to admit, while it was a long wait, the current HD offerings and cost from Adelphia are quite attractive. I am less skeptical now on how long it will be before the remaining HD channels will arrive on cable and look forward to this additional programming.


While I have complained a lot in the past, facing a potential move to an area with limited cable/OA HD offerings, I must admit I am likely to miss what is currently available in the Cleveland area (never thought I would say that!)


----------



## jtscherne

Speaking of calibration, anybody getting it done anytime soon? I know there's at least one local person who is ISF certified, but I don't know anything about him. I don't think there are any out-of-town visitors coming through...


----------



## cristo28

Thanks to everyone for there replies, Adelphia offered me free installation with no commitment so what the heck sounds like nothing to loose, so I think I will give it a go.


Regards to all!!!


John


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *ZManCartFan,
> 
> The local PBS stations that are currently broadcasting digitally are WNEO channel 46 in Alliance and WEAO channel 50 in Akron. Titantv.com is an excellent resource to see what stations are broadcasting and what they are broadcasting. Antennaweb.org can give you the station's transmitter compass direction and distance from your location.
> 
> Steve*



If WEAO digital is on the air, I can't pick it up in Medina. I get WDLI from Canton just fine (RF channel 39), and it's farther away and supposedly has about the same ERP.


WVIZ-DT has special temporary authorization to broadcast at 1kW from their Brookpark studio location, but that won't get very far, if they're even on the air at that.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by techweb_
> *If WEAO digital is on the air, I can't pick it up in Medina. I get WDLI from Canton just fine (RF channel 39), and it's farther away and supposedly has about the same ERP.
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT has special temporary authorization to broadcast at 1kW from their Brookpark studio location, but that won't get very far, if they're even on the air at that.*



FWIW, I can't get any of them either in Medina. The antennas for WEAO and WVIZ are listed as being in the same general direction as (most of) the other Cleveland stations. I can't get WDLI at all, but I've got the antenna aimed more toward Cleveland. That's why I asked what Armstrong was broadcasting. Wonder if it's a national feed?


----------



## intermod

WRAP TV Cleveland ????


I was watching "tvo" (television Ontario, PBS I guess) channel 32 when I noticed a pretty strong beat on it and moved the antenna from 330 degrees to 350 degrees and found a station that plays an endless steam of info-mercials

that ID'ed with a crawler across the top of the screen that said "WRAP Cleveland". I guess its legal. Anyone else notice this robotic piece of trash

on the air?


Dan

http://www.tvo.org/


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *WRAP TV Cleveland ????
> 
> 
> that ID'ed with a crawler across the top of the screen that said "WRAP Cleveland".
> *



Sounds more like WcRAP.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *WRAP TV Cleveland ????
> 
> 
> I was watching "tvo" (television Ontario, PBS I guess) channel 38 when I noticed a pretty strong beat on it and moved the antenna from 330 degrees to 350 degrees and found a station that plays an endless steam of info-mercials
> 
> that ID'ed with a crawler across the top of the screen that said "WRAP Cleveland". I guess its legal. Anyone else notice this robotic piece of trash
> 
> on the air?
> 
> 
> Dan
> 
> http://www.tvo.org/ *



Looks like it's legal, though hard to google any good info on it.


WRAP-CA (Channel 32; CLEVELAND, OH; Owner: COMMERCIAL BROADCASTING CORP.)


"CA" means "Class A" television service which looks like a classification somewhat above Low Power television service. Here's some info:
http://www.wcsr.com/FSL5CS/telecommu...nmemos1145.asp 


Another google search found "infomercials" as their primary programming type...


----------



## wd8kct

> WRAP TV Cleveland ????


They were associated with WAOH TV-29 Akron (also LPTV)... Same company that owns WNIR-FM, WJMP-AM Kent


> If WEAO digital is on the air, I can't pick it up in Medina.


I've been told the digital STL is up and power has been applied to the DTV50 transmitter... should be soon...


Ed...


----------



## jtscherne

Channel 1 on Adelphia is announcing a special HD channel (Channel 710) for the NBC HD olympics coverage. There is discussion of the specific programming here:

NBC HD Olympic Coverage


----------



## bassguitarman

Channel 50 DT (HD) showed up yesterday. Dont know what time it started.

This is the DT for channel 49 affiliated with 45/46 etc PBS Akron/Kent

They seem to be showing the same HD content as 46.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bassguitarman_
> *Channel 50 DT (HD) showed up yesterday... the same HD content as 46.*



I assume you're receiving these OTA.


And about where do you live?


----------



## egman

PBS - HD-50 has started broadcating from their tower in Copley, Ohio. This is WEAO/WNEO 45/49. They have been broadcastin HD-46 from the Salem tower for several months now. Copley is 10 miles west of Akron. I live 8 miles north of the tower on the Richfield/Bath border and the signal was strong and picture clear. This is great news since WVIZ seems to be farther away than ever from getting their HD launched. Here is a link to their coverage map for those of you farther north.


http://www.pbs4549.org/COVERMAP.HTM


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Finally PBS HD in Cleveland. I dont like the multicasting but all PBS does it so there's no point in complaining.


Pickin the signal up solid in Westlake.


----------



## rdalcanto

I still can't get NBC 3-1. I live in Shaker Heights in a two story house. I played with the antenna in my attic to no avail.

Here is the link to the manual for my antenna:
http://www.radioshack.com/images/Pro...OME15-2151.pdf 


I have a long coaxial cable going from the antenna to my receiver.

The only thing I'm NOT doing is using a splitter at the end of my cable before it goes into the HDTV receiver. I don't think that would make a difference....


Help me please!

Thanks,

Rick


----------



## Argee

3-1 is carrying winter game highlites while 3 has the opening of the 224 summer olympics. Strange, BUT 3.1 is broadcasting in 5.1! Is this a first for clelveand HiDef?


----------



## Shark73

The HD feed is delayed an hour from the SD feed. It's been planned that way since the HD schedule was released.



If it's 5.1 than that is a first for the Cleveland market. Fox will have 5.1 once they go HD in Sept.


----------



## jtscherne

It's definitely 5.1. The winter highlights also look spectacular!


----------



## DCSholtis

I'm here in Brooklyn Heights just a short distance from the Parma antenna farm area of Channels 3...5 and 8 area and also a Directv sub. Im close to converting to HD as football season is getting close. Question is will I be able to get by with the clip-on type antenna or would I be better off getting a standard OTA antenna if so which type would be best. Sorry for the newbie questions. Thanks.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DCSholtis_
> *Im close to converting to HD as football season is getting close. Question is will I be able to get by with the clip-on type antenna or would I be better off getting a standard OTA antenna...*



Nobody knows beforehand. Being close is not necessarily good.


Were I there, I'd start with a clip-on. Because big is not necessarily better for you in that location.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rdalcanto_
> *I still can't get NBC 3-1. I live in Shaker Heights in a two story house. I played with the antenna in my attic to no avail.
> 
> Here is the link to the manual for my antenna:
> http://www.radioshack.com/images/Pro...OME15-2151.pdf
> 
> 
> I have a long coaxial cable going from the antenna to my receiver.
> 
> The only thing I'm NOT doing is using a splitter at the end of my cable before it goes into the HDTV receiver. I don't think that would make a difference....
> 
> 
> Help me please!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick*



I live in Shaker too, and if you don't want to go with a roof mount antenna, the best thing for me was the Zenith Silver Sensor in a window on the 3rd floor aimed at the Parma antenna farm. I tried big-ass Radio Shack antennas (VU-120), the big ChannelMaster UHF bowtie array, and the Silver Sensor outperformed them both. IMO, you will not have any luck inside the attic - I tried that - the roof blocks too much signal. It's got to be in a window, and even that is flaky. Putting an antenna outside and up high is the only sure bet.


You definitely want a direct, non-stop, no splitters, coax feed to the HD receiver. You do not want to split it with the old fashioned VHF/UHF adapters - the HD receiver takes care of that. In my experience, amplifiers will not help either.


BTW, because of all the problems getting HD OTA in Cleveland, I finally gave up and went with WOW Cable, and have been very pleased. Watching TV shouldn't be such a major science project.


-- Paul


----------



## Tom in OH

The Olympics on NBC in hi-def just might stir up more interest in receiving over the air. Maybe WKYC will receive enough calls from people having trouble with the signal that improvements will be made.


----------



## alfbinet

Really enjoying the coverage in HD. Except for the occasional dropout (which I always get with Ch 3) I think the picture is exceptional. Also, I believe this is the first time DD5.1 has been broadcast for a local Cleveland TV station. I was really surprised when my Dolby D display lit up on my Denon receiver. Just an added plus! Just wish Ch 8 would get the equipment and WVIZ would get their act together!


----------



## ZManCartFan

If anyone's keeping score, DirecTV is offering the same feed of NBC HD Olympics coverage on Channel 84 as is what's being shown on 3-1. Even though we're not an O&O market, I guess the deal was negotiated to include those areas that are also have at least one cable market that distributes NBC HD through the cable system.


I haven't had cable in years, but I've never been so grateful for it being available. Picture is great, and no dropouts!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

ZManCartFan do you have the ability to take a picture of your TV or get a screen capture of the DirecTV feed and the WKYC feeds of the olympics.


I would love to send them in to Channel 3 showing how crappy their station looks because of the multicasting.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *If it's 5.1 than that is a first for the Cleveland market. Fox will have 5.1 once they go HD in Sept.*



Some Fox programs like "The Casino" are starting to show up in my EPG as being in HD, so they may be ready for HD now. Fox is carrying a football game this Thursday, so we'll see if it's in HD or not.


----------



## Shark73

Fox 8 is ready for the HD conversion. Everything was upgraded about a month ago. The first true HD from Fox is scheduled for Sept 12th.


----------



## Lyle O

Wow,

Just turned on the Olympics for the first time and couldn't believe it, 5.1 from an OTA local. Had to check here to see if it was true. I wonder if this will get any of the other locals broadcasting in 5.1. Really nice to see this.

Jeff


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *ZManCartFan do you have the ability to take a picture of your TV or get a screen capture of the DirecTV feed and the WKYC feeds of the olympics.
> 
> 
> I would love to send them in to Channel 3 showing how crappy their station looks because of the multicasting.*



The best I could do would be a digital camera shot. And without the ability to pause the picture, I don't know how directly comparable of a shot I could get.


Oh, and truthfully. With the compression on D*, it's about the same. Maybe a little less motion artifact on D*, but that would be _really_ tough to capture.


Also, the schedule gets pretty busy starting tonight. Married with two kids, full time career, the works. Starting law school tomorrow.


What am I thinking?










Other than I think I'll watch as much HD as I can tonight.


----------



## alfbinet

Zman, you are also probably 29 years-old. Slow down and chill out.


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

On a happier note, the true-HD ads for Channel 3's newscasts look stunning. I didn't realize KYC had HD cameras lying around...they should use them more often


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K_
> *On a happier note, the true-HD ads for Channel 3's newscasts look stunning. I didn't realize KYC had HD cameras lying around...they should use them more often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



When they went digital a year or so ago they acquired a lot of SONY digital cameras. They even used them for HD for a week or so. Then they drew back -- maybe because NBC was anti-HD for a while.


I think WVIZ had their HD equipment since 1999 and it is yet to be used.


----------



## egman

Does anyone know if there are still HD DVR units available. I was just told there weren't by CS.


----------



## cristo28

I just got two last week. CS on the 800 # didn't know anything about hd dvr, I set up my install with just a Hd box then went into the North Olmsted location and she physically changed my order to reflect that I wanted 2 hd dvr boxes. All I can say is that I got it installed last week with both hd dvr boxes. Hope this helps.


John


----------



## Rbuchina

My wife needs a high speed modem installed to work from home. I am having Comcast come out Friday and install a cable modem along with a High Def receiver to compare to my present DISH network system. I can use it for 29 days and then decide to either drop the DISH or keep the DISH and drop the High Def receiver for a standard cable service to get a better rate on the cable modem. I am quite pleased with the DISH. Ive had DISH service for about 8 years now but I probably will not be keeping both High Def services.


Can I get any feedback about the quality of the Comcast HD signal vs DISH or Direct TV signal? Audio, Video, navigating through channels, setup, anything I should look for to compare the two would be appreciated.


Thanks for any input.


Ray


----------



## Rbuchina

Nice try NBC,


I think its great that NBC beat the other locals to the punch by being the first station in the Cleveland area to broadcast 5.1 audio.


Its unfortunate that they did nothing to the quality of their signal so now the numerous dropouts can be heard in glorious 5.1 Dolby surround. Friday evening 3-1 had a great solid steady picture but it has reverted back to its typically unwatchable quality. I would suspect that they bumped the signal power Friday for the Olympic opening ceremonies. The weather has been quite clear since than so I must conclude the signal has been dialed back to its minimally acceptable level recently.


Anyone else notice this?


Ray


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *Can I get any feedback about the quality of the Comcast HD signal vs DISH or Direct TV signal? Audio, Video, navigating through channels, setup, anything I should look for to compare the two would be appreciated.
> *



I have had all the services at the same time. I have dropped Comcast digital/hidef.

*Negatives for me:* Terrible program guide. Low function. Hard to use.


Picture quality was different. So I had to adjust color/tint everytime I switched to Comcast or back onto another source. All my hidef comes through a switch so that there's only one input into the TV.


Lack of all local HDTV stations -- or any PBS HD.


Their web site is about 9 months behind what they really offer.

*Plus for me:* A few good offerings on INHD1 and INHD2 that are exclusive to the Comcast source.


----------



## egman

I just picked up an HD DVR at the North Olmsted office. No hassles. They just kind of smile when you ask why the 800 number people don't know anything.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *Nice try NBC,
> 
> The weather has been quite clear since than so I must conclude the signal has been dialed back to its minimally acceptable level recently.
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice this?
> 
> 
> Ray*



I've noticed the same erratic behavior. Sunday night, 3-1 came thru perfectly. I was thrilled. Monday morning?? "searching for signal" - "searching for signal". Completely gone again. When the signal does come thru, it seems to be stronger when there's lots of moisture in the air like right before a storm.


----------



## rdalcanto

I went to Circuit City and got the Motorola receiver. I now get 3-1. Looks like the problem is with my old Zenith. Maybe a firmware upgrade will solve the problem with that one.


Thanks,

Rick


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bassguitarman_
> *Channel 50 DT (HD) showed up yesterday. Dont know what time it started.
> 
> This is the DT for channel 49 affiliated with 45/46 etc PBS Akron/Kent
> 
> They seem to be showing the same HD content as 46.*



It's nice to finally have PBS HD in this area. Their signal pegs the meter here in Medina. Channel 3 is the only digital station in this area that doesn't come in full strength, but I receive it just fine too most of the time.


----------



## paule123

PBS 46-1 and 46-2 coming in loud and clear in Shaker Heights, OTA, Samsung SIR-T165 and Silver Sensor...


-- Paul


----------



## alfbinet

Finally have a PBS station in HD in Brook Park. Yahoo. Looks very nice. Anyone know if they are doing DD5.1?


Jim


----------



## bassguitarman




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rdalcanto_
> *I went to Circuit City and got the Motorola receiver. I now get 3-1. Looks like the problem is with my old Zenith. Maybe a firmware upgrade will solve the problem with that one.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rick*



Which old Zenith did you have

What made you decide to try the Motorola ?


----------



## PhilJSmith67




> Quote:
> Its unfortunate that they did nothing to the quality of their signal so now the numerous dropouts can be heard in glorious 5.1 Dolby surround. Friday evening 3-1 had a great solid steady picture but it has reverted back to its typically unwatchable quality. I would suspect that they bumped the signal power Friday for the Olympic opening ceremonies. The weather has been quite clear since than so I must conclude the signal has been dialed back to its minimally acceptable level recently.



I would be highly surprised if WKYC-DT fiddles with their power on channel 2. I'm sure they're pushing every bit of the 8,000 watts they're licensed for -- No more, no less.


There are many factors that can change "signal level" on VHF-Low. The weather could be clear as possible, but if there is just a little of that pesky 60Hz noise coming from a neighbor's house or power line (even if minimally visible on an analog VHF-Low station), it will twiddle a few bits in the 8VSB OTA signal. Most receivers report the signal level based on an inverse of the bit-error rate, not the actual signal strength. So, even if the dBmv level of WKYC-DT ch2 from your antenna remains unchanged, the effective level of reception will decrease.


I get exactly the same results tuning in WBBM-DT ch3 Chicago. The weather could be exactly the same day to day, with no evidence of E-Skip or tropo-enhancement (addl factors, BTW), and yet the "signal level" reported by the tuner varies several dB. WBBM-DT is running a steady 3.7kW.


One final factor: The last few days there have been lines of storms running from Iowa, south of Chicago, across Indiana and into Ohio. It's highly possible that stations such as WBBM-TV Chicago, WTWO Terre Haute, WWMT-DT Grand Rapids, and especially WJBK Detroit may have been picking away at your local WKYC-DT signal. I've been getting stations from 100 to 200 miles away on VHF over the past few days; tropo-enhancement can be pretty widespread.


----------



## Tom in OH

Here's a kewl site on the subject:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html


----------



## Rbuchina

PhilJSmith67,


Thanks for the informative reply. I agree with everything you say. But...WKYC still presents the worst reception of all the Cleveland locals to my home.


Ray


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by alfbinet_
> *Finally have a PBS station in HD in Brook Park. Yahoo. Looks very nice. Anyone know if they are doing DD5.1?
> 
> 
> Jim*



I've watched a few PBS HD programs on 46-1, but haven't seen any DD5.1. 3-1 has DD5.1 for the olympics, but there have been some dropouts, possibly due to marginal signal in my area.


----------



## oachalon

I get my hd through comcast and wkyc is the only station that gives me problems. Does anyone know how comcast gets their hd feeds. I was on the phone with my friend and he gets wkyc ota and i get it through comcast and the channel was messing up the same time for both of us. I just wish wkyc would fix their problem. Yesterday it was watchable but for around 4 hours a couple days ago it was completely unwatchable.


----------



## extremegamer

Good news, appears Adelphia has updated the firmware on the SA8000HD. I now have the copy to VCR option, the space available and block a show. Still no record only new or the pass through/fixed options for HD. And I have no clue about DVI yet, need to pick up a DVI cable, but figured I would let people know that the firmware has been updated.


----------



## intermod

WVIZ-HD is on!!!!


From the brookpark rd. studio. 26.1 only, I dont see any multicasting.

Looks like they are low power and of course the antenna is in a hole.


Dan


----------



## Valnar

Hey everyone. Long time member/poster, but first time here. I'm receiving my HDTV tuner any day now.


I live in North Royalton and am mostly concerned about getting NBC/ABC HDTV feeds from Cleveland. Considering my distance, can anyone recommend a couple good antennas to consider?


-Robert


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *Hey everyone. Long time member/poster, but first time here. I'm receiving my HDTV tuner any day now.
> 
> 
> I live in North Royalton and am mostly concerned about getting NBC/ABC HDTV feeds from Cleveland. Considering my distance, can anyone recommend a couple good antennas to consider?
> 
> 
> -Robert*



I would start with a Zenith Silver Sensor, an amazing little indoor antenna. If that doesn't work out for you, go directly to the largest Radio Shack old-school outdoor VHF/UHF antenna (VU-120 if I remember correctly). Avoid "miracle" products from Terk. When all of this does not work, call your friendly local cable company and order their HD package.










Always remember, there is no free lunch in this HDTV OTA reception game.


-- Paul


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I would start with a Zenith Silver Sensor, an amazing little indoor antenna. If that doesn't work out for you, go directly to the largest Radio Shack old-school outdoor VHF/UHF antenna (VU-120 if I remember correctly). Avoid "miracle" products from Terk. When all of this does not work, call your friendly local cable company and order their HD package.
> 
> 
> Always remember, there is no free lunch in this HDTV OTA reception game.
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



The Silver Sensor will not get the NBC signal.


Jim


----------



## Valnar

Sorry for the newbie questions, which I really shouldn't be asking considering how long I've been in this whole game. But I haven't needed an antenna in 20 years since I went to cable.


Anywhoo.... do I need both UHF/VHF? What channels are the Cleveland stations broadcasting their HDTV feeds? I only care about OTA HDTV, not regular analog.


I've read a little about the Winegard PR-4400 which is UHF only. Do I need VHF?


-Robert


----------



## Shark73

You need both UHF/VHF. NBC is on channel 2-1


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *The Silver Sensor will not get the NBC signal.
> 
> 
> Jim*



I would never say "never" -- it picks up 3-1 for me in Shaker...


----------



## Valnar

My only HDTV tuner is the MyHD MDP-120 which is coming for my HTPC. I assume I need something that does QAM to receive HDTV over cable? If not, then I'll spend the $6 and get it through my cable, so long as I can use this PCI card. I have Wide Open West in North Royalton.


I don't mind spending a little money to get it right the first time. If there is something better than what is at Radio Shack, I'll order it. Unfortunately, I live in a cluster home and the association frowns upon big massive antennas, although they don't seem to mind all the DirecTV dishes popping up here and there. I need some small, but good.


Robert


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I would never say "never" -- it picks up 3-1 for me in Shaker...*



I'm shocked! I thought the Sensor was only UHF?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *My only HDTV tuner is the MyHD MDP-120 which is coming for my HTPC. I assume I need something that does QAM to receive HDTV over cable? If not, then I'll spend the $6 and get it through my cable, so long as I can use this PCI card. I have Wide Open West in North Royalton.
> 
> 
> I don't mind spending a little money to get it right the first time. If there is something better than what is at Radio Shack, I'll order it. Unfortunately, I live in a cluster home and the association frowns upon big massive antennas, although they don't seem to mind all the DirecTV dishes popping up here and there. I need some small, but good.
> 
> 
> Robert*



I've got a MDP-120 too, and it doesn't do QAM.


You're a lucky man, you've got WOW cable like me - just get the WOW HD service and save yourself a bunch of headaches with the antenna routine. Even if you get the antenna up and running you still won't have DiscoveryHD or ESPNHD or HDNet. I just got the SA8000HD DVR from WOW and I love it. ($12.99/mo)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *I'm shocked! I thought the Sensor was only UHF?*



That's what the box says, but I have been able to recieve all the DTV locals OTA including VHF with it. It depends on your location, though, I wouldn't call it 100% reliable with weather conditions, phases of the moon, etc., but it can be done. I was going to rig up an outdoor window mount for the little thing (and just spend $20 every couple years replacing it because it's not outdoor) but then cable started HD service right about that time, so I went with cable.


----------



## Valnar

I don't know if I can swing another $13/month on my cable bill. I also don't want to buy another HDTV tuner since i just spent $300 on the MyHD! ESPN and Discovery don't interest me, only prime time broadcast shows.


So what's wrong with the Terk antennas? I just looked one up and well... they're cute. Nice size. Anything else "like" those but is recommended?


Robert


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *I don't know if I can swing another $13/month on my cable bill. I also don't want to buy another HDTV tuner since i just spent $300 on the MyHD! ESPN and Discovery don't interest me, only prime time broadcast shows.
> 
> 
> So what's wrong with the Terk antennas? I just looked up up and well... they're cute. Nice size. Anything else "like" those but is recommended?
> 
> 
> Robert*



You can get the regular SA3250HD box from WOW for $6.99/mo. (it's only $3 more than the standard digital cable box if you're going to be swapping the old box for the HD box) Since it sounds like you only want the local HD stations, then I think you would not have any additional costs. I think you only have to pay for the HD Pak ($9.99/mo?) if you want DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HDNet.


Re Terk stuff, you can do an AVS forum search for Terk and you'll read a lot of debate over their products, more negative than positive. I've tried some of their gizmos myself and wasn't impressed. Like the long outdoor "bar" antenna that mounts flat against the wall and doesn't look horribly ugly. Problem is it seemed highly directional and didn't pick up any station particularly well.


----------



## Valnar

Can I use the MyHD card with the WOW service? Or do I need QAM?


I don't have the WOW digital box now, so it would be an upgrade.



> Quote:
> Re Terk stuff, you can do an AVS forum search for Terk and you'll read a lot of debate over their products, more negative than positive. I've tried some of their gizmos myself and wasn't impressed. Like the long outdoor "bar" antenna that mounts flat against the wall and doesn't look horribly ugly. Problem is it seemed highly directional and didn't pick up any station particularly well.



How about the Zenith ZHD-TV1 antennas?


Robert


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> *Can I use the MyHD card with the WOW service? Or do I need QAM?*



You need QAM, and even if you had that, I'll bet there is not a 100% guarantee that it works with the cable company. The cableco should be sending ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX HD locals unencrypted "in the clear", but I've read reports with other cablecos that this is not always the case. Here's a QAM capable card:

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...fusion3qam.asp 


but you should probably ask the experts on the HTPC forum here.




> Quote:
> *How about the Zenith ZHD-TV1 antennas?*



Yes, this is the one, what is commonly called the "Silver Sensor"...


----------



## Valnar

Hey Paule123,

Since I want to pick up NBC, I know I need a VHF/UHF antenna. This lead me to the Radio Shack 15-1880 which apparently does it all. It's amplified, but I don't know if I need that.


My web searching in the last hour also led me to Antennaweb.org . Apparently, I am only 5-7 miles away from the transmitters for NBC, CBS and ABC in Cleveland! I think Parma has a tower, which is where everything is broadcast from.


That being said, I don't think I need an amplified antenna. So what's a good choice that does up to 10-15 miles max? If it could do FM, that would be nice. I'm still leaning towards the RS 15-1880, but it might be overkill.


Robert


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *Hey Paule123,
> 
> Since I want to pick up NBC, I know I need a VHF/UHF antenna. This lead me to the Radio Shack 15-1880 which apparently does it all. It's amplified, but I don't know if I need that.*



You could give this one a try and always return it if it doesn't work... I dunno - I don't think there's a lot of HDTV OTA success stories around here with indoor "rabbit ears" style antennas... The amplifiers on these are gimmicks... Seems like a lot of people struggle even getting a big antenna in the attic to work let alone something like this... Stories from other Clevelanders about the DTV stations being underpowered or flaky make the situation even more difficult.


I've got a DirecTV Hughes HTL-HD box at work that supposedly does QAM cable... I'm going to take it home tonight and see if it works with the WOW local HD channels. If so, you might think about exchanging that MyHD card out for the Fusion QAM model...


-- Paul


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> you might think about exchanging that MyHD card out for the Fusion QAM model...



Perhaps, but I could never get Powerstrip and my Radeon to work right. This thing supposedly is as compatible as any 1080i component video STB, so I'm looking forward to plug and play. The fact it upconverts my DVD's to 1080i as well sold me.


Robert


----------



## Shark73

I don't have that Radio Shack model, but I do have a different radio shack indoor antenna with rabbit ears. It works very well, but I can't get NBC at all. I used to get NBC once in a while, but when I got the HD TiVo I lost the signal completely. I'm 8-10 miles from the towers.


Jim


----------



## Valnar

Anybody know of a "petition" to have WKYC move their DTV signal to a UHF frequency?


-Robert


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *Anybody know of a "petition" to have WKYC move their DTV signal to a UHF frequency?
> 
> 
> -Robert*



That'll happen when hell freezes over, LOL. WKYC has told us they are multicasting (and therefore transmitting an inferior HD image) "for good business reasons", so why would you think they'd change over a whole transmitter for us, the viewing public?


And don't bother writing to the FCC, I already did that (re multicasting). The dolts there are clueless about DTV and only capable of form-letter replies.


----------



## Valnar

I guess I was fortunate that I moved to N Royalton about 4 years ago, just below Parma. We'll see if any of the cheapo Radio Shack antennas will work for me. If not, I'll be back here.


Thanks for everyone's replies.


Robert


----------



## ccchaney

I will soon be moving into a condo in Westlake. I have had DirecTV for some years but the new place limits my placing of a disc only on my patio. That is at ground level and there looks to be a tree problem. The complex is serviced (?) by Adelphia and I have been assured by them that HD is available there (just north of the Promenade Shopping Center). It looks like the complex has no exterior TV antenna. Not sure. I am thinking of going to Adelphia since they at least have two Cleveland HD channels. DirecTV has been frustrating for most of this year with so many thunderstorms breaking up or blocking out signals. It had never been a big problem in the past.


I have been trying to learn something about the pricing of Adelphia packages but with little luck. Does anyone know how they price the HD programing? The Adelphia website avoids any specifics. I would like to hear from from Adelphia customers about the HD packages, pricing, etc.


thanks


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ccchaney_
> *the new place limits my placing of a disc only on my patio.*



FWIW, there is a federal law (FCC) that allows you to install your antenna/dish anywhere on the property under your control regardless of what the HOA says...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


----------



## ccchaney

I am generally familiar with the federal. Armond Budish wrote an aritcle on it in July in the Plain Dealer although I had read an overview elsewhere. In my case the patio (the units above have a balcony in this area) is the only place a dish could be placed. Even then, I cannot attach it to the wall since that is considered "common" property. Neither can the dish extend beyond the area of the patio. Exterior walls, grounds, walkways and roofs are considered common areas under the control of the landlord or condo association. This applies also to an external TV antenna. Since my patio is on the west side north of the southwest corner of the building and antenna would be useless.


In general, I think I can live with cable as long as I have reasonable HD content. The Adelphia spokesman assured me that it was, naming not only the condo address but unit number. At least, WKYC-HD and WEWS-HD will be available. I will miss 19-1 but its audio has been a continuous problem so I can live without the aggravation. I will certainly miss any other local HD signals as they appear, especially PBS. I can only hope that Adelphia may pick some of them up in the future.


thanks


----------



## roblake

With the addition of InHD and InHD2, I am VERY pleased with Adelphia's offerings. Sure, I'd like CBS, but that's to come someday ... I have HBO and HDNet and HDNetMovies as well. The amazing thing with my Sony XBR is that the SD Digital broadcasts are strikingly clear and ALMOST of HD quality.


----------



## jtscherne

FWIW, CBS from Adelphia has been mentioned as "real soon now" since before the Super Bowl. We've also been told that Fox should be available close to their HD live date, although I'll believe THAT when I see it too.

Finally, if you have WOW as an alternative cable company, you might want to check with them too, as they already have CBS and Fox. They don't have total Cleveland area coverage, plus your area has to be wired for them. http://www.wideopenwest.com


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> Finally, if you have WOW as an alternative cable company, you might want to check with them too...



I agree. (OT post forthcoming)


FWIW, my dealing with Wide Open West has been superb. Their analog picture compared to Adelphia is great and I have not seen a better cable modem service. I was one of the beta testers for Roadrunner in Akron back in the mid 90's and had Roadrunner until 2000, before moving to North Royalton, where we have both Adelphia and WOW choices. Of all three, WOW has been my favorite. I don't know if Adelphia still limits their uploads to 128K, but having 300K upload with WOW makes a big difference, even if you don't need it.


-Robert


----------



## DCSholtis

I just got my HD setup today and Im AMAZED at how the Olympics look in HD. So far so good with receiving 3.1 for me here in Brooklyn Hts. I upgraded my Directv equiptment to HD and they gave me the SIR-TS360 Samsung box as Im in an OTA area I also took them up on the Weingard OTA antenna. I receive 3, 5, 19, and 61 thru the antenna. BTW was is the golf in HD this weekend on CBS?!! Wasnt sure then again couldve been my fault for screwing with the settings too much...lol..


----------



## jtscherne

Yes the golf was supposed to be HD (although I wouldn't be able to verify it since I don't have CBS HD!)


----------



## Shark73

The golf was not in HD this weekend. CBS changed the schedule on us at the last minute.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *WVIZ-HD is on!!!!
> 
> 
> From the brookpark rd. studio. 26.1 only, I dont see any multicasting.
> 
> Looks like they are low power and of course the antenna is in a hole.
> 
> 
> Dan*



They have special FCC temporary authority to operate at 1kW ERP from the studio location on Brookpark Rd. Haven't been able to pick them up in Medina, but at least I have 46-1 in Akron for PBS HD now.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I've been trying to pull in WVIZ out here in South Russell, but without the slightest success. There isn't even a hint of a signal on channel 26. The screen stays blank, and the signal strength meter just sits at zero.


I'm getting the Akron station in, but with a LOT of dropouts. I tried adding a second antenna (a Silver Sensor) pointed at them in my attic, but it didn't help at all.


I guess I'll just have to wait until Adelphia adds one or both of them to the lineup.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I've been trying to pull in WVIZ out here in South Russell, but without the slightest success. There isn't even a hint of a signal on channel 26. The screen stays blank, and the signal strength meter just sits at zero.
> 
> 
> I'm getting the Akron station in, but with a LOT of dropouts. I tried adding a second antenna (a Silver Sensor) pointed at them in my attic, but it didn't help at all.
> 
> 
> I guess I'll just have to wait until Adelphia adds one or both of them to the lineup.*



I can't get WVIZ 26 in Shaker either, nothing, nada.


I get Akron PBS 46 HD fine with the Silver Sensor. Haven't been too impressed with 46's HD content - when I do see it, it seems to have strange PQ problems like 480i scenes and 1080i scenes in the same film/program. I just shrug and figure maybe that's the way the Brits do it, or that it's older material, or it's 46's growing pains/and/or multicasting...


DiscoveryHD still rules.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *My only HDTV tuner is the MyHD MDP-120 which is coming for my HTPC. I assume I need something that does QAM to receive HDTV over cable? If not, then I'll spend the $6 and get it through my cable, so long as I can use this PCI card. I have Wide Open West in North Royalton.
> *



Robert,

I took the Hughes HTL-HD home over the weekend and hooked it up to WOW cable. Unfortunately the HTL-HD has no option for it, just analog cable channels 1-135. I thought it did QAM because it's listed in the specs at American Satellite and other retailers. When I asked on another thread about this, the theory goes that Hughes may have crippled QAM in the box, one would assume because it competes with their service.


So, I can't give you a definitive answer on whether a QAM enabled card will work with WOW...


-- Paul


----------



## ZManCartFan

Is anyone getting WKYC's radar channel 3-3? Looks like they turned it off, as 3-1 and 3-2 are coming in great for me (at least as far as WKYC is concerned) but 3-3 is nowhere to be found.


I hope that it's just a temporary thing for the olympics. My wife, the radar junkie, would be upset if it went away. That's been the only thing she sees any real benefit in for going digital.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Is anyone getting WKYC's radar channel 3-3? Looks like they turned it off, as 3-1 and 3-2 are coming in great for me (at least as far as WKYC is concerned) but 3-3 is nowhere to be found.
> 
> 
> I hope that it's just a temporary thing for the olympics. My wife, the radar junkie, would be upset if it went away. That's been the only thing she sees any real benefit in for going digital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Same here, no 3-3. Although 3-1 has worked better this past week than ever. It sure seems like they're fiddling with things (bandwidth reshuffle) for the Olympics. I'm pleased 3-1 is working but I want doppler too.


Yesterday 8-1 was nonexistent. What happened there? It used to be one of the strongest signals.


----------



## Shark73

Fox was on last night. I know they have been testing the HD demo loop.


----------



## TLaz

Anyone have an update as to when WBNX will be transmitting in HDTV? What is the speculated reason it has taken so long? I have read old posts from 2002 which stated they would start transmitting in DTV "soon".


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I think WBNX is battling with the FCC and Canada over their digital transmission. Not sure exactly what the problem is. But Canada Sucks. I've emailed them maybe 3 times and got one response well over a year ago. Who knows.


----------



## intermod

WBNX-DT ?


I think it's a "Line A" thing.

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/maps/canline/linea.html


----------



## TLaz

Line "A" thing, what they haven't been able to draw a line on a map since 1965?


----------



## DCSholtis

Regarding 8-1 how strong has their signal been?? Since I got my set up on Saturday Ive not been able to receive it. (Plenty of signal breakups...etc) Same with 43-1 I dont mind not getting 43-1 as much tho and I can wait on FOX8 since I live in an O&O and Directv is rumored to be doing a CBS-HD like deal with FOX.


----------



## intermod

Hey DCSholtis,


Welcome to the forum, Channel 8-1 (31) has been solid for a long time.

Am I thinking ther right place, down there by the cemetary off broadview?


Dan


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Hey DCSholtis,
> 
> 
> Welcome to the forum, Channel 8-1 (31) has been solid for a long time.
> 
> Am I thinking ther right place, down there by the cemetary off broadview?
> 
> 
> Dan*



WJW transmitter site is at State & Pleasant Valley Rd. in Parma. Same site location since the station went on the air as WXEL channel 9 in the late 40s.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I can't get WVIZ 26 in Shaker either, nothing, nada.
> 
> 
> I get Akron PBS 46 HD fine with the Silver Sensor. Haven't been too impressed with 46's HD content - when I do see it, it seems to have strange PQ problems like 480i scenes and 1080i scenes in the same film/program. I just shrug and figure maybe that's the way the Brits do it, or that it's older material, or it's 46's growing pains/and/or multicasting...
> 
> 
> DiscoveryHD still rules.*



I agree that 46's HD programming content is lacking. Macroblocking is likely due to the fact that they also have SD programming on 46-2. This deficiency, also seen with olympics HD programming on 3-1, makes a strong case for having no other subchannels when carrying HD.


----------



## intermod

Pretty hot tropo opening right now. 18:27 EDT 24-aug

Just about every channel above 15 or so has something on it.


Dan


----------



## pupper

Has anyone had any luck receiving Cleveland HD chanels from the Canton area.If so, what antenna are you using.


Thanks


----------



## gass

pupper, I'm in SW Portage Co about 5 miles north of Hartville. I get most of the stations most of the time but 3-1 and 19-1 struggle especially at night. I have a Channel Master in my attic which is technically the "3rd" floor.


----------



## intermod

Pupper,


I have picked up 17-1 WDLI in digital mode . All in all I have to say that the analog signals have better range, at least with my ChannelMaster UHF/VHF

66" Yagi. It does not preform well on UHF or VHF. I think its a 3018 but CM changed thier numbers.. in any event it is on a 66" boom.


After about 18 months of having the antenna in my attic, all I can say is save yourself the risk of injury and just put it in the basement.


I always had the feeling that my set was "Deaf" with the antenna in the attic. Now I know my antenna is a POS. I also have concerns regarding that crap RG6 they sell at Home Depot so I have a nice spool of RG11 to try(maybe this weekend !)


I also want to get a Long Yagi just for UHF, something on 10 or 12' boom

stacked on top of the channelmaster.


There was a pretty hot tropo opening this afternoon, thats when you miss a big Yagi on the roof.


Good luck, keep us posted.


Dan


----------



## TLaz

I live in Jackson Township near the high school, I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna (a UHF only antenna) mounted in my attic and receive WEWS (ABC), WJW (FOX), WOIO (CBS), WUAB (UPN), WEAO (PBS), WDLI (TBN) and WQHS (Univision). The antenna is pointed towards the Cleveland stations, the reception on all of these stations is consistant with very rare drop outs. I couldn't get WKYC (a low-VHF station) at all, even when I had a VHF antenna mounted in the attic.


When I point the antenna towards Youngstown, I can receive WNEO (PBS), WFMJ (NBC) and WYTV (ABC with Dolby 5.1).


As you see ABC, NBC, CBS, UPN, FOX, TBN, Univision and PBS DTV reception is possible in Canton. Only the WB network is missing from the major and minor OTA networks.


On a side note: WBNX (WB) where are you?


----------



## vinyal

Tony


I also live in the Jackson township behind the Jackson high school in the Coventry hills development.


I would like to see your setup if you do not mind and also get some help as to how to setup the equipment. If i cannot see your setup can I talk to you maybe over the phone and get some help. I will appreciate any input in the matter



Thanks


Vivek


----------



## intermod

I drove by WVIZ on brookpark rd this AM to eyeball the channel 25.1(26) antenna. I am not familiar with the TV transmission end but it looks like some sort of co-linear. Its on a short (


----------



## Steve B

Does the wkyc olympic picture look too pixilated on your sets for those with comcast?


It is much better OTA for me. Do I just have a bad cable signal?


----------



## jtighe

I am east of Mentor in Concord TWP. WKYC 3.3 has been off the air since the Olympics started. WJW 8.1 has been bad this week. Are they doing something to their transmitter?? 26.1 does not come in at all..


----------



## jtighe

I am east of Mentor in Concord TWP. WKYC 3.3 has been off the air since the Olympics started. WJW 8.1 has been bad this week. Are they doing something to their transmitter?? 26.1 does not come in at all..


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtighe_
> *26.1 does not come in at all..*



I couldn't see anything about HD programming schedule on WVIZ's website, so I would assume it's too early in the testing phase for it to be watchable... WVIZ still shows a DTV update from June 2003 on the site...


Speaking of WKYC, did anyone catch the Browns preseason game last Saturday? If you checked out 3-2 during the game you would have seen a really *bad* SD 4:3 overcompressed version of the SD 4:3 game on 3-1. I have no idea what they were doing/thinking there...


----------



## intermod

Here is the pix of WVIZ's channel 26 Antenna.


I'm guessing line of sight for this thing has to be south to the crest of state rd. hill, West to the bump along brookpark rd by Ridge, North to the rise on

w25th by Brooklyn Hgts cemmetary and east to 98th st. in Garfield. I think back in the mid 70's when WIXY 1260 AM built the new site out on miller rd.

there was some issue about letting the construction permit/Modification to the license, expire if a signal was not on within "X" amount of time. Maybe thats

why they persued this .


Anyway, I'm glad they did and I'm sure 30 or 40 other people are too.


----------



## Rbuchina

Steve B.,




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Steve B_
> *Does the wkyc Olympic picture look too pixilated on your sets for those with comcast?
> 
> 
> It is much better OTA for me. Do I just have a bad cable signal?*



I just got Comcast HD connected last Friday and I was surprised to see My OTA via Dish 6000 receiver had fewer drop-outs and pixalations than the Comcast WKYC channel. I live in Mentor. Comcast gave me a Motorola HD receiver with built in HD DVR. I've been having fun with the DVR. It looks and works great. I've never had a DVR before so it does not take much to impress me here. As I understand it TiVo has many more features that these Motorola units are lacking. I will probably finally drop the Dish since my wive needs the high speed modem for work. I loose a bit on the channel line up but I can still use my Dish 6000 for OTA reception even though I will no longer get any of the Dish channels.


Ray


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *
> 
> Speaking of WKYC, did anyone catch the Browns preseason game last Saturday? If you checked out 3-2 during the game you would have seen a really *bad* SD 4:3 overcompressed version of the SD 4:3 game on 3-1. I have no idea what they were doing/thinking there...*



Given the terrible macroblocking on the olympics HD feed on 3-1 early on, I suspect they may have reduced the bandwidth of 3-2 to improve 3-1. It seems to be a little better than before. They also shut off the weather radar on 3-3, but that won't save much bandwidth.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by techweb_
> *Given the terrible macroblocking on the olympics HD feed on 3-1 early on, I suspect they may have reduced the bandwidth of 3-2 to improve 3-1.*



Must be that "good business decision" doesn't involve providing any type of quality picture.


----------



## Shark73

Adelphia really needs to step up and add CBS and FOX before the football season starts.


Anyone have an update?


----------



## sohr

Anyone in Westlake or on the west side having problems picking

up WKYC or WOIO? I've tried three different antenna

(a Silver Sensor, a Radio Shack UHF/VHF amplified indoor antenna, and the Channel Master 4228)... I can get almost all of the UHF channels, but never get above 5% on either WKYC or WOIO.


I live in a condo, and I've thought about getting an outdoor antenna. Is the Stealthtenna any good? Or the Terk TV55? Or should I just get a big old yagi-style and mount the ugly thing on my balcony?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Im in Westlake, havnt been able to pick up WKYC since puting up my new antenna. WOIO is sometimes difficult, but a quick twist gives solid signal strength.


Get a big a$$ antenna. Its worth it. 150" minimum.


----------



## TLaz

Below is text taken from a Feb 2004 response by a WBNX engineering consultant regarding a Dec 18th 2003 letter from the FCC to WBNX


DTV Allocation Considerations - International

The purpose of the instant application is to resolve predicted WBNX-DT interference

contour overlap with the service contour of a co-channel DTV allotment in Paris, Ontario,

Canada. According to the December 18, 2003 FCC letter, WBNX-DT must eliminate the

overlap.


So it seems there is a concern about interference with a Candian DTV station and WBNX has modified its radiation pattern to resolve this problem. They are awaiting a FCC response to the proposal.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by sohr_
> *I live in a condo, and I've thought about getting an outdoor antenna. Is the Stealthtenna any good? Or the Terk TV55? Or should I just get a big old yagi-style and mount the ugly thing on my balcony?*



From my experience, the stealth antenna with optional built-in preamp works decently on UHF, is somewhat usable on the high VHF band, but almost worthless on the low VHF band. That would seem to rule it out for either WKYC or WOIO at your location.


----------



## Steve B

Ray,


I watched Olympic basketball and soccer tonight and think I have figured out the difference. The OTA signal is 1080i and I have the Motorla set to 720p. I think the pixilization is due to the conversion from 1080i to 720p. ESPND is 720p native and I see NO artifacts on cable.


I also noted the same artifact OTA (Macroblocking), just not as noticeable - so they seem to be amplified by the conversion. No surprise there. I don't remember the same problems with 1080i for the superbowl, but maybe I am more critical now, or as Techweb supposes, the 2-2 feed took too much bandwidth. Still kind of cool to be able to flip to 2-2 to see the current content. Hopefully by the next winter olympics it just won't be an issue.


In any case, it all looks awesome and the INHD stuff is nothing short of phenomenal.


Steve


PS Ray, thanks to you, I found out that Comcast has HD PVR available. They are supposed to bring me one this week! I learn something every time I come on this Forum.


PSS; Techweb, I also learned the pixil break up is called Macroblocking.


----------



## Valnar

Does anyone know of an inexpensive, but good professional antenna installer on the west side? I need an antenna mounted on my roof with RG6 run to my basement... slinked through the existing walls I imagine. (?)


I did a lot of my own RG6 and CAT5 wiring in my house when it was built, but that was before the builders put the drywall up. I'm not handy enough to figure it out now, and I never anticipated ever needing a roof antenna years ago.


Robert


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Whats your price I'll do it.


----------



## jtscherne

Anybody watching MNF OTA tonight? I'm watching through Adelphia. The best word I can use to describe the picture quality is "dull". There's a lot of pixelation, colors seem washed out, and the overall presentation just seems below average.


----------



## intermod

Looks the same over the air, like looking through fog.


Dan


----------



## Shark73

Looks pretty good on both Adelphia and OTA. It's not as sharp as CBS, but the game this weekend was way to hot as far as the whites are concerned.


----------



## jtscherne

I thought the ESPN USC-VA Tech game Saturday night was one of the best HD presentations I have ever seen, which probably means my expectations are too high!


----------



## Shark73

I agree the USC-VaTech game did look very good. One of the best by ESPN in a while.


----------



## jtscherne

Looks like we won't be seeing Jacobs Field in HD on Sunday night. Anaheim's in town and Titan TV shows it in HD, but ESPN's HD schedule doesn't show the game. Last Sunday's game wasn't in HD either. It looks like they've switched in their college football HD mode (three games this Saturday!)


----------



## cristo28

Valnar,


Stewarts in Eylria installed my equipment I even purchased everything but the brackets from others, they are really very good.


----------



## cristo28

Does anyone have any adelphia updates concerning CBS or Fox and has the the software on the hd dvr been updated yet?


For the record, I am very pleased with the service Adelphia is offering, I wasn't sure if I would be but I think its time I sell my Direct equpment, I am not going back in the short term.


John


----------



## Valnar

Thanks Cristo.


Edit: I just called Stewarts. They say they don't install antennas.


----------



## paule123

I just exchanged emails this morning with engineering at WVIZ. Very friendly and helpful. He told me the following:


- WVIZ-DT has been up since Aug 16th, 24 hours a day. It is at a lower power and terrain will be the limiting factor in reception.


- The main transmitter will not be ready until Spring or Summer 2005


- They are actively working with Adelphia, Cox, Time Warner and Conneaut Cable on carriage of the HD channel. He said by all means contact your cable company and request WVIZ-DT, the more interest the better. (I sent my Wide Open West Cleveland guy an email about WVIZ and they are "working on it")


- He had reports from Cleveland Heights (I'm in Shaker) about intermittent pick up of the signal. Let them know about successes you may have in receiving the signal. E-mail: [email protected] 


- Hopefully the website will be updated soon with current DTV programming info since I reminded them about it being a year old...










-- Paul


----------



## egman

I know I am not the only one with this problem. I have three video sources with component outputs and two component inputs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a basic, quality A/B switch that also handles the digital audio?


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Yes, it's called a receiver


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by egman_
> *I know I am not the only one with this problem. I have three video sources with component outputs and two component inputs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a basic, quality A/B switch that also handles the digital audio?*



I've seen others on AVSForum talk about this one:
http://www.audioauthority.com/aaccon...1154c5577.html 


more here as well:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=433334


----------



## intermod

RADAR Back on 2.3, Cant be sure but it sounds like the 5.1 is off.


Oh well, ya lose some, and lose some more.


Dan


EDIT: Now it sounds like 5.1 is on,


----------



## fpo701

I noticed both Time Warner's Programming Guide and TitanTV.com have "off the air" for any non-network programming on 3.1. Weird.


I suspect that WKYC's lack of Radar lately is due to the olympics. It was probably too hard to run three distinct feeds (a digital version of analog 3, the HD olympics, and radar). Normally, I would suspect 3.2 is just a thunked-down rebroadcast of 3.1. As I am awaiting the HD DVR from Time Warner to give up my SD DVR (ie HD TV w/o HD tuner), I like the higher PQ I get from the non-HD digital signal over the analog signal. [ducks from tomatoes] After seeing what over-multi-casting can do, I'd rather have live radar over a duplicate feed. Of course, I'd also prefer Klinger over Radar, but that's a different Radar.


----------



## Tom in OH

For all those who receive 3-1 (ota) - does your HD tuner's DD(5.1) symbol light up in the guide banner?


----------



## jtscherne

Fox's digital channel is now available on Adelphia, at least here in the Cleveland area. It appeared today.


----------



## handsworth









FOX HD is now available on Adelphia 708


----------



## jtscherne

Ha-Ha! I won...


(Ok, I'll be the first to ask: what about CBS and WVIZ?







Don't you love when people ask for more when they just got something?)


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOX HD is now available on Adelphia 708*



Technically speaking it's still not Fox HD!


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Technically speaking it's still not Fox HD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I checked my channel after getting home and 708 is broadcast in 720p. Is this not HD just as ESPN HD?. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Its not HD because while the local affiliates are sending out 720p. it is an upconverted 480p or 480i signal. It will be HD on Sunday Sept 12.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *I checked my channel after getting home and 708 is broadcast in 720p. Is this not HD just as ESPN HD?. Please correct me if I'm wrong.*



Fox has been sending a 720p signal, but the new splicer was not online yet. As of last night the splicer was still not online.


However, after getting home tonight, it looks like the splicer is online tonight due to the new channel bug. Looks like we are set for HD now.


edit: The splicer is online tonight. We have a new logo bug and 5.1 sound.


----------



## PPS

I'm thinking of getting the LG LST-3510A HDTuner/DVD player.

It includes QAM capability.

Does anyone know if I can pick up the Cox Cable HD channels with this unit?

I'm not interested in getting HBO;Showtime or Discovery HD.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PPS_
> *I'm thinking of getting the LG LST-3510A HDTuner/DVD player.
> 
> It includes QAM capability.
> 
> Does anyone know if I can pick up the Cox Cable HD channels with this unit?
> 
> I'm not interested in getting HBO;Showtime or Discovery HD.*



PPS:


I've got one of these boxes. I don't know about Cox, but on Adelphia I can receive all the local channels they carry, as well as the music channels. I get more channels OTA than with the cable, so that's how I have mine set up.


I bought the LG because I wanted a DVD player that would upscale to 720p and output to my Samsung DLP via DVI. The DVDs look great, the tuner is a nice bonus. Plus, the TV only has one DVI input, so I get both the DVDs and the HD tuner without buying a switch.


-Chris.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Ha-Ha! I won...
> 
> 
> (Ok, I'll be the first to ask: what about CBS and WVIZ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you love when people ask for more when they just got something?)*



Congrats on being the first to report, but I still would like WB and UPS in HD too.


After that I'll want TNT, FS0,.......HECK...every channel










Why the heck doesn't the DVI port work on the HD8000? I ask this on this thread because I'm reading that it is available in other areas.


----------



## jtscherne

You won't get the WB because WBNX isn't even broadcasting HD.


----------



## Argee

Indians game tonight from Jacobs Field will be in HD on ESPN


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately it's not. The game is on ESPN2. No HD.


----------



## Argee

hmmmm....my DirecTV Receiver guide is showing it on channel 73 which is th HD channel. I guess we shall see.


----------



## Argee

and I just rechecked the guide and now it shows a college football game. Last night when I check channel 73 for tonight it did have the Indians game listed. Typical Cleveland luck.


----------



## Valnar

I'm only 6 miles away from the Parma towers in North Royalton, so reception is pretty good. Though I'm happy with my OTA HDTV at the moment, I called up WOW Cable to see what they offer - based on the recommendation to "go cable" in this thread.


To get local Cleveland HDTV channels (& ESPN), it would cost me another $14.99 a month which includes an HD PVR. No way am I paying that. Now, part of that is because I'm grandfathered in under a less expensive plan with my current Internet + analog cable, so it would be a couple bucks more to refresh this plan, and add HDTV local on top of it. I pay $64 now. But since my main viewing is national networks and I don't watch a lot of ESPN, I'll stick with what I have.


The other thing I didn't like was the person on the phone had to "calculate" what it was going to cost me. It sounded like I was talking to a car salesman, and they had carte blanche on pricing! I guess they figure HDTV is still a sellers market which explains why its' pricing isn't listed in black & white on the WOW web page. Maybe if I call back a couple different times and talk to different people, I would get different pricing? Hmm...


-Robert


----------



## paule123

Interesting you say $14.99/mo, because my WOW bill has:


Digital Basic: 53.99

HD DVR Receiver: 12.99

HD Pak: 9.99 (includes ABC,FOX,CBS,NBC,ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, HDNet, HDNetMovies, StarzHD)


So that's about $23/mo for HD by my calculation. Were you quoted some kind of ESPNHD-only deal and not the complete HD Pak?


FWIW, DirecTV has got to be the worst with their on again/off again free HD this, discount HD that, "call the secret number" routine to get their deals...


-- Paul


----------



## Valnar

paule123,


That's even more ridiculous. I'd complain.


Robert


----------



## Jim Gilliland

It sure has been a pleasure watching the US Open in HD on CBS this weekend. What a difference between this broadcast and the Olympics on NBC! CBS is really doing it well - no matter how fast the action is, the broadcast is crisp, clear, and artifact free. I just wish channel 3 would take a lesson from this.


----------



## jtscherne

Assuming TitanTV is accurate, our first Fox HD broadcast here in the Cleveland area will be the Giants/Eagles game on Sunday at 4:00 p.m.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Assuming TitanTV is accurate, our first Fox HD broadcast here in the Cleveland area will be the Giants/Eagles game on Sunday at 4:00 p.m.*



It's too bad CBS isn't going to be blanketing the AFC with HD coverage like Fox is covering the NFC...


----------



## Shark73

From what I've read CBS doesn't have the technology to do that many games in HD. It's still going to be nice having 8-9 games in HD through the Sunday ticket.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

CBS is supposed to have 2-3 HD games per week. Browns vs. Cowboys will be HD in week 2.


And since we almost always get CBS national games when the Browns are not playing, we'll get HD most of the time. The only time I could see CBS showing a non HD, non Browns game would have to be if the Bengals played the Steelers or something, and that game wasn't scheduled for HD.


Most weeks though, we should be alright.


----------



## Shark73

CBS will have 3 games a week once the other truck is available. Until then only 2 games per week. My comment was CBS didn't have the technology to do 6 games yet.


----------



## Smak Runner 2K

Great...now I just need Warner Cable to pick-up WOIO-HD and I'll be straight.



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!


----------



## rlockshin

For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1

hats off to channel 3-1


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
> 
> hats off to channel 3-1*



DD 5.1 On NBC started with the Olympics and yes they were the first, but Fox has DD 5.1 now too.


Until they improve the signal strength the bashing will continue.


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
> 
> hats off to channel 3-1*



Can't wait to see Third Watch or ER in 5.1. Of course, I'd rather see JAG or NCIS in HD, but that's Time Warner's fault.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *For all of you WKYC bashers. Please note that they are now broadcasting some shows in 5.1 surround sound. the first in Cleveland. Per their engineer, most new shows this year will be in Dolby digital 5.1
> 
> hats off to channel 3-1*



I wonder if their engineer has been watching the overcompressed, bandwidth starved crap they've been transmitting on 3-2 for the past weeks since the Olympics? They must have made some bandwidth allocation during the Olympics and never changed it back.


They must have *zero* audience actually watching 3-2 OTA on a digital TV, because they would have had a flood of complaints by now and fixed it. One can get a better picture watching low rez streaming video over a modem connection.


(Note: my last check of 3-2's crap-stream was last Friday during the Browns/Bears preseason game, they may have fixed it since then...)


-- Paul


----------



## rlockshin

The show I saw on Monday night was Hawaii. Sound was awesome


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I wonder if their engineer has been watching the overcompressed, bandwidth starved crap they've been transmitting on 3-2 for the past weeks since the Olympics? They must have made some bandwidth allocation during the Olympics and never changed it back.*



If they're giving more bandwidth to 3.1, I'm all for it. Obviously, the best solution would be to eliminate 3.2 and 3.3 completely, but anything they do to improve 3.1 is a step in the right direction.


Then again, now that the Olympics are over, NBC doesn't have anything on that I want to watch anyway. Come to think of it, at the moment the weather map on 3.3 may be the most interesting content that they have to offer!


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *If they're giving more bandwidth to 3.1, I'm all for it. Obviously, the best solution would be to eliminate 3.2 and 3.3 completely, but anything they do to improve 3.1 is a step in the right direction.
> *



I still see some macroblocking on 3-1. They should just shut off 3-2 to improve 3-1 quality.


----------



## Dweezilz

Even during the Olympics, I compared OTA WKYC-DT coverage with Adelphia's WKYC-DT coverage and Dish Network's direct feed of NBC-DT. The results were as expected. Dish network's direct NBC feed was by far the best looking of the three, with OTA next & Adelphia a very close 3rd. It wasn't even close between Dish's national feed and WKYC. Night & day. It's obvious even with the increased bandwidth, that WKYC's PQ is far inferior to the national standard for NBC-DT. It's too bad they simply will not change this situation as they've made it very clear to me via e-mail that 2.2 (3-2) will never go away & that they feel their PQ is not inferior. Until Dish or Direct TV provide national NBC-DT, we won't get any better from any source that provides WKYC.


-Todd


----------



## paule123

FYI, looks like we have the Browns in HD for Weeks 2 & 3. No HD Browns in Week 1. That's as far as the websites are showing as of this time.


Here's a handy list of links to the NFL TV schedules so you can monitor progress as we go along:


CBS schedule:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl 


FOX schedule:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/schedule 

(does not indicate which games are HD... grrr...)


ABC/ESPN schedule:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/s...ge=/television 


DirecTV Sunday Ticket schedule:
http://www.directvsports.com/Schedul...LSundayTicket/ 

(indicates which Fox games are HD)



HTH,

Paul


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

All games on Fox are HD Paul


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *All games on Fox are HD Paul*



I thought they said "up to 6 per week" and in Week 1 & 5, for example, there are 7 games on Fox. Week 7 has 8 games on Fox, etc.


----------



## Shark73

Fox will have upto 6 games per week....on weeks when they have 7 games one will be in SD.


----------



## paule123

The point I was trying to make is wouldn't it be nice if the webmasters over at Fox indicated which games were going to be in HD, like our fine friends over at ESPN-HD do for their sports programming....


I can deduce from the DirecTV ST schedule which Fox games are in HD, but really we should get the info from the horse's mouth, since Fox is spending all this money on the HD rollout you would think they'd want to pump this up. Do a search on "HDTV" at foxsports.com and all you get is the lame-o FSN HD schedule. No mention of their fabulous new HD NFL coverage.


----------



## Dweezilz

you can also go to TitanTV.com & see which are in HD, but I understand what you are saying about Fox.


----------



## jtscherne

Titan TV is very unreliable too. They still show three HD games on ESPN tomorrow, yet ESPN's HD listings only show two games (and has for quite awhile).


----------



## oldavnut

Does any body know status of CBS-HD in Adelphia? I asked it directly to Adelphia, but no answer so far. I hope they pick up before Browns-Cowboys game.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Titan TV is very unreliable too. They still show three HD games on ESPN tomorrow, yet ESPN's HD listings only show two games (and has for quite awhile).*



Yep, nothing's perfect, I'm just giving alternatives is all. ESPN's website has been wrong many times in the past as well. I recall specifically having some friends over to watch the US Soccer team a few months back, which was listed on ESPN's website as being HD, only to have people over watching SD garbage.


-Todd


----------



## wfwiles

Does anyone receive WKYCHD on channel 211 COMCAST cable without pixelation. Mine is totally trash with solid heavily breaking up. I have the comcast box and Sony OTA thru an AA 1157 switch. The OTA is clean but cable is trash. Channels 210 and 213 are fine


Bill


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *
> 
> Here's a handy list of links to the NFL TV schedules so you can monitor progress as we go along:
> 
> 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Paul*



thx for the lynx Paul, those are nice.


----------



## Inundated

Greetings, all...


I'm new to AVSForum - though I'm a regular at sister site TiVo Community. I am also new to digital TV, having just bought one of those cheapie USDigital receivers at Wal-Mart this afternoon.


And my good fortune with reception is better than I expected. I'm in a second floor condo in Cuyahoga Falls (old Northampton Twp. section) with large, open windows to the west. I am literally surrounded by tall trees with full leaves. And yet, with a simple RCA amplified indoor antenna pointing in the general direction of Parma, I am getting nearly all of the Cleveland/Akron/Canton DTV signals with little dropouts.


Some experience so far:


* My sole missing signal is, as you might have already guessed, WKYC/3 (2.1, etc.). A manual scan for DT2 produces zero signal. It doesn't even light up the bar! I haven't moved around the antenna and tried that yet.


* WOIO/19 (10.x) required some antenna twisting, but I've found a position which picks it up with perfect clarity.


* Unfortunately, I haven't yet figured out how to adjust the antenna to get WOIO AND clear signals out of WJW, WKYC, etc. If I move the antenna to get these, I lose WOIO. But at very least, if I want CBS HD feeds (like, say, whatever Browns games they carry in HD this year...I understand next week's game will be the first in HD), I know I can get them.


* Strongest signals here are WEAO/49 (50.x) and WDLI/17 (39.x), which blow the doors off the receiver no matter where I point the antenna. For whatever reason, WQHS/61 (34.x) is also quite strong...stronger than WEWS or WJW. And their power seems to be the same, and I assume that all of 'em are in the Parma antenna farm.


Until I get an HD set, I'm just watching on my analog set (S-video out) and it still looks pretty good.


I have Adelphia, but since I haven't bought an HD set yet (still thinking of which one to get), I won't spring for the HD package on cable yet...and besides, WOIO/CBS is still missing from that package. If I go satellite, I'll keep the USDigital box for local HD up here. If I go with Adelphia and they get WOIO, I'll move the box downstairs and use it as a tuner for the one TV downstairs without cable (assuming I get similar performance with the indoor antenna downstairs).


I also was hoping I could nab WKYC, but it doesn't look likely. I'll hunt down a Silver Sensor tomorrow and see if it makes any difference (though it supposedly is a UHF-only antenna, other comments on this thread give me hope). I'll also take the box, a small TV and the antenna out on my deck and see if that does anything.


(I can't install an external antenna here at all.)


What appears to be a problem with WKYC's DT signal...an industry database is showing it at 8KW!!! But it also lists WOIO-DT 10 at 4KW, and I'm watching it now with no problems. It must be that low VHF thing...










Oh, speaking of databases, one correction to a message above - WRAP-LP 32 is not connected with WAOH-LP 29 Akron ("The CAT") . The Cleveland simulcaster of that station is W35AX, which is up in the Parma farm with everyone else.


----------



## alfbinet

What about WVIZ? Anyone getting this signal?


----------



## Valnar

I purchased an external medium directional antenna (both VHF/UHF) to see if it could do better than my internal Radio shack antenna. I live in North Royalton, only 6 miles from the Parma towers, and up on a hill too. Really, I should be ideal for anything. I'm comparing the V15 from Antennasdirect.com to my Radio Shack 15-1868 .


Because of my proximity, all the stations I care about come in a great 70-93% strength, except WKYC of course. That is around 40-44%, which is enough for my MyHD PCI card to get a decent signal most of the time, but I get occasional dropouts. I bought the external antenna mainly to see if I could get WKYC 3-1 to come in better.


Well, I ran a long RG6 cable out the window and walked around my deck (which faces Parma) with this antenna. Some of the UHF stations came in even better, with one at 100%. WKYC did no better than 44%.










I didn't try to put it on my roof yet, because I wanted to see if it mad a difference. But so far, its no better than my *indoor* RS antenna.


Does anyone get WKYC in strongly?


-Robert


----------



## paule123

If you were testing reception of 19.1 WOIO this afternoon, they were off the air from what I could tell. I could not get the digital channel OTA or on cable for a couple hours in the 2pm - 4pm range.


Speaking of antenna testing, I was trying out this AntennasDirect SR15 UHF yagi today in hopes of pulling in WVIZ's low power signal on 26:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/sr15_high_gain_yagi.htm 


A very well built antenna by the way. Apprently made by an Alvin Corp. out of Australia. The boom is a heavy gauge milled aluminum, not the typical thin-metal boom assemblies I've seen with the Radio Shack type VHF/UHF outdoor antennas.


Mounted on the side of the house, outside 3rd floor bedroom window, aimed at Parma, just below the treetops. The yagi picked up all the Cleveland DTV stations well except for WKYC 3.1 (which is to be expected since this is not a VHF antenna) WKYC did come in, but it was breaking up quite a bit. The SR15 did not pick up WVIZ-DT at all, 25.1 (26). Oh well, another antenna collecting dust in the basement...


For the heck of it, I removed the SR15, and placed a Silver Sensor on the mast - It got all the stations except WKYC. With some fussing, I can usually get WKYC with this antenna, even sitting behind window glass. (Silver Sensor did *not* get WVIZ-DT)


Now this is the interesting part - I've got a set of cheap rabbit ears and figured I'd see what those mounted outside would do. I looked up the frequency of WYKC, and figured 1/8 wavelength was about 27" - I adjusted the rabbit ears to 27" on each side, folded them flat horizontal, and duct taped this to the top of the mast. (maybe I didn't need to get that technical, but what the heck). Amazingly, WKYC came in with a very good signal *and* it picked up all the other Cleveland DTV stations with PBS 45/49 (50) being a little weak, but locked in and viewable. Yes, indeed, the rabbit ears mounted outside pulled in 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 17, 19.1, 43.1, 50, and 61.1 !! When I moved the rabbit ears inside behind the glass, 3.1, 8.1, 19.1, 61.1 still came in, but the other channels were lost.

(note: WVIZ-DT still did not come in, that's just hopeless I think until they get the power increased)


So based on the rabbit ears success, I'm thinking an antenna with one or two simple VHF elements like the V10 or V15 shown here would be a decent all around antenna:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/VHF%20...20listings.htm 


The thing I like about these antennas is that the boom length is relatively short, and they have a low profile, unlike the huge Radio Shack antennas.


The OTA receiver I use is the Samsung SIR-T165. I am in Shaker, 10 miles from the Parma farm.


-- Paul


----------



## paule123

Ah, Valnar, I see you have the V15 -- even if your signal meter says 44% on WKYC, are you getting dropouts?


FWIW my SIR-T165 never shows more than 50% on the signal bars and at "50%" I never have a problem. Only when it drops below about 15% do I get breakups. The meter kind of goes 0-15% (breakups), 25% solid, 40% solid, 50% solid.


----------



## Valnar

Paul,

Yep, that's the antenna I just bought, and tested today. The V15.


At 40%, I get almost perfect visual, with a hiccup now and then. My sound does kick in and out though every few minutes. All other stations get around 70-93%, since they are UHF. No problems.


I want to restate though that the V15 did no better than my internal antenna. I'm 5 miles away, so what I get is what I get, I'm afraid. That's why I wanted to know if *anyone* gets better than 50% on WKYC. Any Parmanians here?


I'll try the roof later this week, but I need to buy more cable.


-Robert


----------



## Inundated

I get the idea that you almost have to be under the WKYC tower in Parma to get a decent signal out of it. Ditto with WVIZ, but they're a temporary, low power situation.


Update: I moved the indoor antenna pointing out the window a little, and now I have a position where I get all the available stations all of the time. I'm tempted to move it around to try to squeeze something out of WKYC, but it does not appear likely. I might also get a Silver Surfer, but again... I'm not expecting miracles out of WKYC! (Is there some reason they are camped out on Ch. 2 for digital?)


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I get a solid signal from WKYC. On the signal meter, it's not quite as strong as the others, but it's pretty reliable. I've got a Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna in the attic. I get PBS from Akron sometimes (though it's pretty bad tonight), and never get anything at all from PBS in Cleveland.


I'm out in Geauga county, past Chagrin Falls, so it's not particularly close. And my antenna is pointed just slightly south of due west, right at the Cleveland stations and at the worst possible orientation for Akron, so it's working about as you'd expect.


I think anyone who wants to pull in WKYC is going to have to put up an antenna that is properly tuned for low-band VHF.


----------



## Inundated

I'm not able to put up a large outdoor antenna, so I'm just gonna have to live without WKYC in HD, unless I hook up with Adelphia's HDTV service.


I'm actually quite surprised I'm doing THIS well with an indoor antenna surrounded by trees. I was particularly surprised I got even WDLI out of Canton (TBN), even though it's four channels I won't ever watch







I believe WDLI's DT tower is in a different place than its analog (near Canton)...I think the DT tower is over in Copley with WEAO/49-DT 50.


No problems with WEAO here...their signal is nearly full strength. They're having dropouts right now on their SD simulcast channel, but that appears to be internally, as they just put up a digital slide about technical difficulties, and the HD PBS feed is fine.


Nice to have that HD PBS feed on DT 50!!! It gives me something pretty to watch all the time...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I'm out in Geauga county, past Chagrin Falls, so it's not particularly close. And my antenna is pointed just slightly south of due west, right at the Cleveland stations and at the worst possible orientation for Akron, so it's working about as you'd expect.*



Well, you've got that big antenna up there...I'm working with a small indoor amplified antenna. I have no attic, so I can't put a big one up there, and I live in a condo, so I can't really put up an outside antenna.


I think my good fortune is due to the fact that just about all the local stations are up in the Parma antenna farm, and I'm aiming there pretty much...and the Akron stations are close enough that I could probably be aiming anywhere to get them. WEAO-DT 50 here is the strongest signal I have, and it's over in Copley...though the Parma-based signals aren't much worse and are nearly at full strength.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I get the idea that you almost have to be under the WKYC tower in Parma to get a decent signal out of it. Ditto with WVIZ, but they're a temporary, low power situation.
> 
> 
> Update: I moved the indoor antenna pointing out the window a little, and now I have a position where I get all the available stations all of the time. I'm tempted to move it around to try to squeeze something out of WKYC, but it does not appear likely. I might also get a Silver Surfer, but again... I'm not expecting miracles out of WKYC! (Is there some reason they are camped out on Ch. 2 for digital?)*



I'm out in Twinsburg. I have a Channel Master Stealthtenna & the best I can do with WKYC is about 68% which is usually enough to pull it in during the summer, but usually not enough during the winter. We'll see how that goes this winter. I have Adelphia HD as well, so I'll get their even more degraded version of WKYC in the worst case. ha!


-Todd


ps - I can't get WVIZ at all.


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> I have a Channel Master Stealthtenna & the best I can do with WKYC is about 68%



Really?









That antenna isn't even 95" long, which I thought was pretty much required for a good signal at 54Mhz (Channel 2).


What tuner do you have?


Robert


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I'm out in Twinsburg. I have a Channel Master Stealthtenna & the best I can do with WKYC is about 68% which is usually enough to pull it in during the summer, but usually not enough during the winter. We'll see how that goes this winter. I have Adelphia HD as well, so I'll get their even more degraded version of WKYC in the worst case. ha!*



Since you have both...how much worse is the Adelphia HD version of WKYC or the other locals? And is there any local store where I can get the Stealthtenna? (I know you can get it online, but I'd like to buy/play with it/return it if it doesn't help any more than my amplified internal antenna. I could probably put it somewhere out on the deck or something.)



> *Quote:*
> *ps - I can't get WVIZ at all.*


*
*You're not alone







Not a peep of low-power WVIZ here in northwest Akron, though I suspect they are not at all likely to show up here until they go full-power. As mentioned, I have full signal out of WEAO/49-50, which is sweet...the PBS 24/7 HD feed!


----------



## cneubert

I live in Green (about 5 miles NE of Akron Canton airport. I'm picking up channel 3.1 with a big Radio Shack UHF/VHF antenna. I can get about 65-66% on the HD TiVo, but my MyHD can only get about 36% and it can't seem to lock on at that strength. I was getting it with the MyHD most of last year though. It seemed to get worse as the TV season progressed until it was usually unwatchable by the end of the season.


As a side note, I was only able to get about 59-60% (which wasn't enough for a steady lock) until I moved my antenna to a different location on the roof. By moving it I gained about 6%. An antenna amp didn't help at all. I got the same thing with or without the amp. All the amp did was overload the tuners and make the signal much worse. However, the amp did allow me to insert some splitters and maintain high signal strength.


----------



## paule123

Question for you Adelphia guys - are you getting CBS HD or Fox HD yet?


I have a friend with Adelphia (non-HD service) that I want to set up with HD. If Adelphia is going to come through real soon (as in this week), he'll stick with Adelphia. If they don't get their act together by next Sunday, I'm gonna tell him to just learn new channel numbers and say bye bye Adelphia, hello Wide Open West...


----------



## Inundated

I believe Adelphia has only FOX (WJW) HD...just added in the past few weeks. I'm pretty sure they don't have WOIO/CBS in HD as of yet.


----------



## Inundated

A question:


How many folks in the Cleveland market are picking up WFMJ-DT and WYTV-DT out of Youngstown? My indoor antennas, amplified or no, aren't getting one bit of signal out of DT 20 (I forget which DT channel WYTV is on). I suspect terrain and location issues are working against me here...if I was closer to Portage County, I might have a shot. (Not to mention if I had an outdoor antenna!)


----------



## Inundated

Sorry to monopolize the thread, but...just to note...it appears WOIO/19.1 is off the air this early afternoon. All the other Cleveland DTVers are normal, including 19's sister station, WUAB/43.1...


----------



## Inundated

Sorry to monopolize the thread, but...just to note...it appears WOIO/19.1 is off the air this early afternoon. All the other Cleveland DTVers are normal, including 19's sister station, WUAB/43.1...


----------



## ParsonsBri

I will be interested to see if Adelphia takes any heat this week for not having WOIO up for the Browns game this weekend (vs. Dallas at 4:15 in HD). I have called to complain, but I dont know if that will really help. I can get it OTA but the signal is iffy sometimes. C'mon Adelphia! Get it done!!!


----------



## Inundated

Yeah, one would hope that Adelphia would do whatever possible to get WOIO on in HD before the Browns game...the Browns' first in HD. But I get the idea Raycom (19/43's owner) may be the stumbling block here.


I'm not concerned...I get a great signal out of 19.1 even with my amplified indoor antenna.


BTW, WOIO/19.1 is back on, and maybe it's just me, but it looks better. Before, the local news seemed washed out and "soft"...maybe they are tweaking things before Sunday afternoon. (I know they're running upconverted material or 4:3 SD, but it looks better. Then again, last night's movie didn't look bad at all.)


----------



## StanZ

Don't blame the cable provider.


I couldn't get it Over-The-Air.


----------



## Valnar

Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd love to hear more from people about their WKYC (3-1) experiences. Is anyone getting above a 60% signal strength consistently on this station? I find it disconcerting that I'm 6 miles from Parma and I only get a 44% strength at best, according to my tuner.


-Robert


PS. Yes, Thank you Jim Gilliland. I'm looking for additional testimonials.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Yeah, 19 was off the air for a while on Saturday afternoon, too, while I was trying to watch the US Open. They were back on for the Women's final match on Saturday night and the Men's final late Sunday afternoon, though. And both broadcasts looked great. I'd like to see them get things worked out with Adelphia, too. I get 19 pretty well over the air, and 43 isn't bad either, but I can't use my Adelphia DVR with them until they get added to the cable.


The only thing I watch on 43 is Enterprise - do they have any other HD shows?


Anyone heard anything new about WB? I know that the FCC is still working with them on resolving the Canada issue, but I was really hoping they'd be on by now. All my kids' favorite shows are starting their new seasons on WB this week, and we're still watching the old SD analog feed.


----------



## oldavnut

On comparison between Brown's game on WOIO (analog) and other NFL games on Fox & ESPN (HD), it's night and day. I'm paying $150 to Adelphia including internet, ultimate package, and HD-DVR. My wife says I'm crazy, am I? If I can watch Brown's game by HD on Sunday, I'll keep Adelphia.


What is the best way to get OTA HD signal? I'm in Cleveland Heights and I have Samsung DLP TV without internal HD tuner. I don't have antenna any sort.


Welcome any comments. Thank you.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd love to hear more from people about their WKYC (3-1) experiences. Is anyone getting above a 60% signal strength consistently on this station? I find it disconcerting that I'm 6 miles from Parma and I only get a 44% strength at best, according to my tuner.*



As I said before, it comes in pretty well here. My signal strength meter doesn't show numbers, but I'd estimate that it averages around 2/3 of the max, or about 65-70%. I'm about 18 miles from the station. Contrary to what someone else suggested above, I don't have a particularly "big" antenna, but I do have one that covers the VHF band. It's a typical suburban rooftop antenna, but mine is in the attic which limits its performance somewhat.


----------



## Inundated

Well, Jim... you have a "big" antenna compared to me, at any rate, being indoor only here.










I E-Mailed WKYC about their digital signal, and surprise, I got a response back. Their assistant chief engineer basically says if you get a good analog signal out of 3, you should be able to get DT 2. But...I've always had poor luck, no matter where in the Akron area, getting a watchable analog signal out of 3 without an outdoor antenna. The low VHF band is noisy. Period. It requires, digital or analog, more antenna or better antenna than the high VHF or UHF bands.


My RCA ANT1205 - a very good amplified internal, by the way - shows bursts of signal when I try to manually add DT 2/WKYC 3.1, but not ever enough to "lock" onto...it fluctuates wildly.



> *Quote:*
> *Don't blame the cable provider.
> 
> 
> I couldn't get it Over-The-Air.*


*
*My message above wasn't clear, I guess. I can only get WOIO OTA right now, and even if I had Adelphia's HDTV package, WOIO is not YET included. Let's hope they come through before Sunday! But I probably won't spring for it - yet - until I have a real HDTV set here. I'm just playing with DTV and feeding it into my 32" Toshiba analog set...though it looks VERY good with 480i feeding component video out of the box. VERY good.


19's PQ is dramatically improved for the upconvert, though I don't know how much of that was me switching to the component feed. Before, the upconverted local news looked "washed out" last night.



> *Quote:*
> *What is the best way to get OTA HD signal? I'm in Cleveland Heights and I have Samsung DLP TV without internal HD tuner. I don't have antenna any sort.*


*
*You'd need a digital STB - you can get one for as cheap as $200 at Wal-Mart (USDigital), which is the one I have, and it works great...I'm watching WOIO 19.1 with it even as I type this. It has S-Video and component video output, the latter of which I just started using, since my analog TV supports it. If you're interested in HDMI or DVI outputs, you might wanna check out other boxes, but the component video looks good at least on my analog set. It might make a difference on your DLP unit, tho.


And you'll need an antenna of some sort. If you're in reasonable distance of the Parma TV antenna farm, and can get analog signals well, you won't need much more than internal rabbit ears or an amplified antenna (I use the RCA 1205). My only missing station is WKYC/3 DT 2, for reasons explained elsewhere on this thread...everyone else who's doing DTV in this market comes in fine.


Haven't heard anything yet about 55...but I assume if they come on soon, it'll be an easy catch for me (their tower is in Brecksville or something, right between here and the Parma antenna farm, and they are on UHF as far as I know). Too bad we have to wait...the WB looks like it has a decent HD schedule this year.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *On comparison between Brown's game on WOIO (analog) and other NFL games on Fox & ESPN (HD), it's night and day. I'm paying $150 to Adelphia including internet, ultimate package, and HD-DVR. My wife says I'm crazy, am I? If I can watch Brown's game by HD on Sunday, I'll keep Adelphia.
> 
> 
> What is the best way to get OTA HD signal? I'm in Cleveland Heights and I have Samsung DLP TV without internal HD tuner. I don't have antenna any sort.
> 
> 
> Welcome any comments. Thank you.*



No you're not crazy, I figure I've spent about $6000 on equipment in the last couple years to watch a g*ddamn football game. Most of these dollars being spent the day before the Super Bowl.







I've gone from rarely watching TV with a $36 analog only cable bill to an $80 bill and HD DVR.


Anyhow, to get CBS OTA, you're going to have to spend yet another couple hundred dollars on an OTA receiver. I have the Samsung SIR-T165 but it looks like they are no longer available. Check the top two here at Circuit City:

http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/catO...ategorylist.do 


Then you need to play antenna games. Start with a Zenith Silver Sensor and place it as high as you can get, then move on up to the outdoor variety if that doesn't work...


Edit: If Inundated is correct, and the USDigital box passes 720p and 1080i to component outputs, that's a good deal. I did not think those boxes were capable of that...


----------



## Tom in OH

50-1(ota) comes in with no problem but it won't show up in the guide. Anyone know why?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *50-1(ota) comes in with no problem but it won't show up in the guide. Anyone know why?*



Are you talking about a DirecTV box with the integrated guide that shows OTA stations? If so, I would assume that since 50-1 is so new the guide data isn't yet being passed by the DirecTV stream. The guide doesn't actually come over the air.


If it's a cable provider, I'm afraid I can't help.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Edit: If Inundated is correct, and the USDigital box passes 720p and 1080i to component outputs, that's a good deal. I did not think those boxes were capable of that...*



Looking at both the menus, and the manual, it appears this statement is correct...it'll send down, listed on the setup menu:


- Composite/S-Video

- Component 480i (using it on my analog Toshiba now)

- Component 480p (HDTV)

- Component 720p (HDTV)

- Component 1080i (HDTV)


I don't know how it works in practice, but it should work. And my analog set, feeding both S-Video and 480i, displays all the usual resolutions in whatever box is needed to display them onscreen. (i.e. I can watch 720p feeds and 1080i feeds with no problem)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Are you talking about a DirecTV box with the integrated guide that shows OTA stations? If so, I would assume that since 50-1 is so new the guide data isn't yet being passed by the DirecTV stream. The guide doesn't actually come over the air.
> 
> 
> If it's a cable provider, I'm afraid I can't help.*



If it's just straight OTA, none of the local stations are sending down programming data...which is, if I understand right, sent down with the same PSIP data that converts DT 10 into channel 19-x for the STB.


WEAO/50-x (45/49 do not use the PSIP to remap channels for their DT 46/50) has more information than most. They have a time period listed for whatever, and a message to go to their Web site for more information.


Hats off to the 45/49 folks (46/50 folks?







...their PBS HD feed on 46-1 and 50-1 is the only full time OTA HD feed locally, and looks absolutely incredible even on my analog set.


----------



## Inundated

Just got another reply from the assistant chief engineer at WKYC...


We've pretty much agreed that without a decent outdoor antenna, I'm probably out of luck to get WKYC-DT OTA here in the Akron area. He also mentioned that at some point in January 2006 or so, stations will be able to vacate low VHF channels for digital...but he has no idea if WKYC will elect that route.


Oh, and he "feels our pain", as it were...saying they "are aware" of the issues with low-VHF and DTV. And he just confirmed that co-operated WVPX-DT 59 is having issues with CICO in Chatham, Ontario...much like the Canadian issues that WBNX is having with its DT allocation.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Are you talking about a DirecTV box with the integrated guide that shows OTA stations? If so, I would assume that since 50-1 is so new the guide data isn't yet being passed by the DirecTV stream. The guide doesn't actually come over the air.
> 
> 
> If it's a cable provider, I'm afraid I can't help.*



Ya, in the HDTivo guide. You're probably right, DirecTv and 50-1 haven't shared guide data yet. It's strange though, 25-1 WVIZ recently showed up in the guide but all I get is "searching for signal".


These ota HD channels are good to have for lots of reasons including comparing the HD channels from DirecTv(and Dish) for pq differences.


----------



## intermod

50-1 ???


I get UPN detroit on channel 50. Whats up with that?


Dan


----------



## Inundated

DT 50 in Northeast Ohio is WEAO/49's digital signal (the Akron half of PBS 45 & 49).


You must have a pretty decent antenna to get UPN 50 out of Detroit.


WEAO-DT has only been on the air full-time for a few weeks, if that...you might wanna check again.


----------



## intermod

RE:50-1 ???


"You must have a pretty decent antenna to get UPN 50 out of Detroit."


I wish! As with ANY antenna, it's to low, to small and obviously has some

front to back ratio issues. There is/was a pretty decent tropo opening the last week or so, Damn Canadian stations are poping up all over the place.


Dan


----------



## jtscherne

As to Adelphia getting CBS by Sunday's Browns game:


They weren't able to get it done for the Super Bowl (even though we were told "real soon now" way back then!), so I don't expect it for this weekend either (AND CBS starts their HD SEC game of the week starting Saturday).


----------



## Rbuchina




> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> 
> *Yeah, one would hope that Adelphia would do whatever possible to get WOIO on in HD before the Browns game...the Browns' first in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> The Browns were in High Def last year on Sunday night Football against the Steelers. This will be the first in High def on CBS.
> 
> 
> Speaking of CBS, I could not pick up Digital CBS OTA last night. Anyone else have a problem with this. The signal has been poor recently.
> 
> 
> I also tried to tune into the premiere episode of LAX on digital WKYC last night. The sound was all messed up. I think WKYC may be having some growing pains with the new 5.1 equipment. It sounded like all that was coming out was background sounds. No center channel, no dialog. It did this on both OTA and Comcast. The overabundance of drop-outs was still there of course. Anyone Eliseo notice this?
> 
> 
> I hope WOIO gets their act together before Sundays' game in Dallas.
> 
> 
> Ray*


----------



## Shark73

I thought the Browns game vs. SF was in HD last year on CBS?


----------



## Rbuchina

Shark73,


I think you're right. I remember going to a freinds house to watch the game and teasing him about not having an HDTV.


Ray


----------



## Inundated

Oops, a little misunderstanding...I didn't mean it'd be the Browns first EVER game in HD. I have no idea what they aired in previous years. I meant the first this year.










Re: Canadian tropo openings - I once got channel 42 out of Ontario on my amplified rabbit ears in the bedroom! It wasn't the best signal, but it was watchable. I've never been able to repeat it. Of course, with WEAO-DT fired up, UPN 50 will likely never show up here again...


I'm gonna walk my antenna around again and see if I can get WKYC again. I'll occasionally get a burst of something coming through, but not nearly enough to "lock" the signal.


----------



## egman

Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## Argee

So who do we write/call to get Channel 5 and 19 to get 5.1 equipment to go with the HD pic?


----------



## jtscherne

I think you might need to get a technician to come out or at least verify your signal strength. I get perfectly acceptable pictures from the Adelphia locals. I'm in Shaker Heights.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by egman_
> *Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?*


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by egman_
> *Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?*



Could be a weak signal coming into the house or a problem with the drop from the pole, or too many splitters in the house. I was losing some of my HD channels and getting pixelization on WOW cable this spring during the thaw. All the other SD channels, analog and digital were ok. If I eliminated all other TVs in the house by bypassing my splitters, the HD channels would come back.


Technician came out and said the "taps" on the pole where the coax connects can fill with water when the winter ice melts. Once the water is blown out or dries out, the signal comes back. The HD digital channels are far more sensitive to this type of thing than the other SD low bandwidth channels.


-- Paul


----------



## Inundated

It's not a good night if you're a NE Ohio HDTV fan, at least if you're depending on OTA reception, like me...


* Of CBS's shows tonight, only one, "NCIS", is listed in HDTV. And at least now, WOIO/19.1 is not showing it in HD...it's definitely in SD. (Is there a 24 hour hotline to bug them about this? The newsroom, perhaps?) I know 19 CAN do HD, as I've watched HD series, movies and last weekend's U.S. Open on the station...and it looked great. Someone apparently just forgot to flip the switch!


* ABC promises at least two HDTV shows on the schedule tonight: two episodes of "According to Jim" at 9 and 9:30. Then, there's a repeat of last night's "The Benefactor" at 10, which is now not even marked as HDTV on ABC's Web site. (Don't expect a lot, I guess!) But locally, WEWS is running some odd movie that is NOT on the network schedule - "Last Flight Out", an hour and a half extravaganza which preempts one of the two "Jim" episodes. The movie, obviously, is not in HD at the local level.


* Whatever NBC's showing in HD, I can't get it, because of the continuing struggle to find an antenna good enough for the local OTA feed at DT channel 2. (Did someone at Gannett, or whoever owned WKYC at the time, say "gee, all these other stations are on the UHF band, let's go find the worst possible low-VHF channel!")


* WUAB/43.1's sole HD program is "Enterprise" later this week, and I'm not even sure they're ready to pass it through the feed.


* WBNX/55 is nowhere near having its DTV stick up.


At this moment, my sole "HD" source is WEAO/50-1, and even THEY are running a non-HD "Widescreen" show at this hour! Arrgh!


----------



## Inundated

Good news. After I sent this, I turned back to WOIO/19-1, and someone apparently woke up and said "oops! we didn't turn on HDTV!"







"NCIS" is now in full HD...


----------



## Inundated

Oh, one more...I think I misplaced a private message from someone... possibly on this thread. Please resend, whoever it was...


----------



## hookbill

I get channel 3 through Adelphia. I recorded LAX Monday and sat down to look at it tonight. I never heard a sound problem like this. All I got was background noise and music. That went on the entire show. Checked my sound settings on my set, nothing was wrong.


I just was watching through my stereo, no 5.1.


Anybody else notice or see this show?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by egman_
> *Is anyone out there having problems with the locals on Adelphia? 703, 705 and 708 are unwatchable (pixelization and dropouts), but the other channels are great. I don't really care because I have an OTA box and PQ is better (during the odd times I can actually get the locals from Adelphia). Anyone else having this problem?*



Yes. It comes and goes here. Most of the time, the signals are fine. But occasionally, they suffer severe dropouts that render them unwatchable. And sometimes they just disappear entirely. I also get dropouts on the 770 series of channels sometimes, but the problems up there are far less frequent. For example, last night's broadcast of "A Clockwork Orange" suffered audio dropouts every few seconds throughout the film. I assume that I'll have to call Adelphia out to fix this, but I haven't done so yet. I'm assuming that it is a signal issue that is local to my house or neighborhood.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_ *
> 
> * WUAB/43.1's sole HD program is "Enterprise" later this week, and I'm not even sure they're ready to pass it through the feed.*



WUAB has been carrying Enterprise in HD for most of last season. I'm not sure whether or not they carry any other HD shows. Why are you so sure that it is their "sole" HD program?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

First, UPN does show a good number of friday night movies in HD.


Second, you guys have been throwing down a crazy number of posts lately. Just crazy. You would think this was a real city, not the city of Cleveland. #1 city of poverty (even though that figure is skewed).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *WUAB has been carrying Enterprise in HD for most of last season. I'm not sure whether or not they carry any other HD shows. Why are you so sure that it is their "sole" HD program?*



Because I've seen more than one list of network HDTV shows that list "Enterprise" as UPN's only HD program for the 2004 season. I hadn't seen anything that said UPN's movie package was fed in HD, though that wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *First, UPN does show a good number of friday night movies in HD.
> 
> 
> Second, you guys have been throwing down a crazy number of posts lately. Just crazy. You would think this was a real city, not the city of Cleveland. #1 city of poverty (even though that figure is skewed).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Hah. It's my fault, as I'm new to the world of digital TV.


I apologize if I'm sounding like some sort of idiot to some of you here, but this is all new to me.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

no, no one's fault, its just crazy. now i am contributing to the mad amount of posting in this thread.


----------



## Inundated

OK, so it's me again, but I have a milestone this time...I HAVE WKYC-DT!!!


I went out to the garage and got a ladder. I figured I'd have to find the highest place in this second floor loft in my condo...and the windows go up VERY high. Roughly 10 feet above my TV, with both aerials pointing at the highest point of the loft window, and my hand outstretched, I managed to get a lock on WKYC-DT.


But...that's not the funniest part of the story. The funniest part? I don't have to put the antenna up there.


After locking WKYC into the STB, I moved around trying to find a place I could position my RCA ANT1205 internal amplified antenna. I considered even trying to place it atop the ceiling fan, just to see if that'd get a signal! (I have no shelving or anything that high up on the window.)


I then turned to my third, lowest window, but one I figured might have a better angle at Parma than the other two. I got some decent signal with the aerials pushed right up against the window, and figured I was gonna try taping the aerials up there and hope for the best.


I put the ANT1205 down, on the top right of my couch. Guess where it's stayed? Guess where I can watch WKYC-DT? With the antenna sitting on top of my couch!


I don't know how long this is going to work, but it's held up tonight at any rate...I've been watching Jay Leno in HD for about the past 15 minutes.


The other channels are variable from here, but I'm not touching the UHF part for a while. At least I know I have a place to catch WKYC now!


----------



## paule123

Inundated, I hope the FCC takes note of your post. Maybe it will help convince them to provide us all a government supplied roll of aluminum foil to apply to our antennas in the year 2006 when the analog transmitters go dark.


----------



## egman




> Quote:
> Could be a weak signal coming into the house or a problem with the drop from the pole, or too many splitters in the house. I was losing some of my HD channels and getting pixelization on WOW cable this spring during the thaw. All the other SD channels, analog and digital were ok. If I eliminated all other TVs in the house by bypassing my splitters, the HD channels would come back.



Before I get the technicians out, I am going to tap the line on the outside of the house and run a direct line to the box to see if that resolves the issue. I have a lot of splitters and the internal wiring in the house was done by a previous owner. Still seems strange that it is only the locals (INHD, HDNET and ESPN HD are fine). Like I said, I don't care that much because I have an OTA receiver, but the DVR won't be much use without a good signal.


----------



## mobgre

FWIW,


A couple of weeks ago the same thing happened to me with Adelphia. I lost my locals HD feed but INHD, HDNET, etc were fine. I called them to advise. They said no problems had been reported but they would send someone out. Up until then all was fine with reception. So before they came out I got the idea to re-boot the box (SA-3250HD) just unplugged and plugged back in and lo in behold everything was back fine. Maybe give it a try?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by egman_
> *Still seems strange that it is only the locals (INHD, HDNET and ESPN HD are fine).*



Well, don't forget that the digital channels aren't transmitted the same way that the analog channels are - they don't each have their own frequency. As it happens, channels 703, 705, and 708 are all carried on the same QAM channel (681 MHz). The two HDNet channels are carried at 687MHz, ESPNHD at 645MHz, and the two InHD channels at 699MHz. So it is very likely that when one of the locals fails, all three will fail. And also likely that the signals carried on the other QAM carriers will remain unaffected.


There is a wide range of other QAM frequencies used for the rest of the digital channels, ranging from about 550MHz through about 700MHz.


----------



## Inundated

Welcome to Good News and Bad News day for me and DTV.










The good news? The Silver Sensor I ordered came in. And with a minimum of pointing, it is easily the best antenna I have in my arsenal right now. All the local OTA stations on UHF frequencies are nearly pegging the signal meter when the Silver Sensor is in the system. With the RCA ANT1205, my best choice so far, the signals were a notch or two weaker...and the Silver Sensor is not amplified! (I have one of those little Zenith in-line amplifiers, the ones usually sold with the SS, on the way.)


The bad news? Whatever magic antenna position I had with the RCA last night that allowed reception of WKYC-DT has gone away. I unplugged the RCA to use the Silver Sensor (which gets virtually nothing on either WKYC-DT or WOIO-DT, since it's a UHF only antenna), and the RCA WAS working with WKYC-DT before I did it. I plugged it back in, and I must have nudged it or moved it or something, because WKYC-DT in any of its channels is a mess now, and I can't find the right position to return it. Sigh.


The other news is that I'm getting Adelphia's HD package, so assuming it works, this'll be a moot point. But I'll move the OTA STB down to another TV...maybe when I get a true HD set, the cable box will go on it, and the STB on the set I'm using now.


Anyway, if you've got ANY signal at all...and need an indoor antenna... the Silver Sensor is a good bet from my experience.


----------



## Inundated

Well, what do ya know...2 minutes after I posted that, I found another WKYC-DT spot...same physical location, but with one of the ANT1205's aerials up against the wall and one at not quite a 90 degree angle up...


It'll be interesting to see if I can manage to get WKYC-DT when I move the STB to another room, or if I'll have to make a cable run or something...and leave this RCA antenna right here! Or maybe I'll combine it with the SS...


----------



## PPS

Anyone getting WKYC-DT? I'm getting a signal strength of 77 but no picture or sound. When I punch in 3-2 or 3-3 they just change to 3-1 and nothing.


----------



## Inundated

I'm getting WKYC-DT tonight, with the antenna in the proper position (you might remember it from the early episodes of "Married with Children" on FOX, where the Bundys went into "FOX VIEWING POSITION", complete with rabbit ears covered with tin foil).


HD, SD and radar are all present as usual.


----------



## ironmanix

Can somebody please advise on what I need to do antenna-wise and what I can expect signal-wise out in Mentor Ohio? I'm mostly concerned about getting the Browns/Cowboys game this weekend.


I have a two-story home with an attic (I have a Terk 55 up there now that isn't working very well). I have access to my roof and I already have a cable run to my tv. What is the right antenna to buy and how difficult is installation? I'm relatively handy and I'd like to do it right. Should I consider one of those antenna rotating devices?


Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *I have a two-story home with an attic (I have a Terk 55 up there now that isn't working very well).*



I'm not going to be able to be of a LOT of help here, but ditching the Terk 55 is your first choice.


You can likely get better results from ANY antenna up there, even a pretty decent sized outdoor one (I think the Channel Master 4227 [?] is usually a recommended antenna). I'm mostly using indoor antennas, with a combination of an RCA ANT1205 for VHF-based DTs (including WOIO/19, which is on DT 10), and a new Silver Sensor for the UHF-based DTs (everyone else in the market except for WKYC).


This is all temporary, since I'm going to be getting Adelphia's HD box on Friday.


Even in the world of outdoor antennas, you have to keep the above in mind... you need a good VHF antenna to pick up WKYC-DT 2 and WOIO-DT 10 (especially for WKYC, it's in low-VHF), and a good UHF antenna to pick up all the other digital stations in the Cleveland market.


----------



## egman




> Quote:
> Well, don't forget that the digital channels aren't transmitted the same way that the analog channels are - they don't each have their own frequency. As it happens, channels 703, 705, and 708 are all carried on the same QAM channel (681 MHz). The two HDNet channels are carried at 687MHz, ESPNHD at 645MHz, and the two InHD channels at 699MHz. So it is very likely that when one of the locals fails, all three will fail. And also likely that the signals carried on the other QAM carriers will remain unaffected.



Jim-


OK. That makes sense. But, does my plan to run a direct line from the drop on the side of the house make sense, or should I just get a technician out? I am a self-help kind of guy and this seems like a signal problem.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *I have a two-story home with an attic (I have a Terk 55 up there now that isn't working very well). I have access to my roof and I already have a cable run to my tv. What is the right antenna to buy and how difficult is installation? I'm relatively handy and I'd like to do it right. Should I consider one of those antenna rotating devices?*



I wouldn't bother with a rotator unless you're planning to try to pull in stations from Erie, Akron, or Youngstown. Even with a rotator, I don't think you'll be overly successful. And you shouldn't need a rotator for the Cleveland stations - they're all in the same direction from you.


Get a decent UHF/VHF antenna and some mounting hardware. Most installations either strap the mast to the chimney or mount it at the peak of the wall of the house. I've got a Radio Shack antenna here that works well, but most people seem to prefer the Channel Master.


----------



## egman




> Quote:
> This is all temporary, since I'm going to be getting Adelphia's HD box on Friday.



Inundated-


I wouldn't plan on dumping your OTA receiver just yet. I have Adelphia HD and you can see my posts re: weak HD signal for locals. Also, Adelphia only carries ABC, NBC and FOX right now. No CBS means no Browns a lot of time. Also, down my way we have PBS HD (OTA 50). I plan to keep both OTA and Adelphia for quite a while.


----------



## hookbill

Well, if your read all of Inundated's posts he's really not getting rid of anything. He's just moving some stuff around and the Adelphia box is an add on because he has had trouble with channel 3.


Anyway he will still get more HD television because he can get Inhd1,2, and if they ever have it working again the ppv channel. Not to mention ESPN and whatever premium channels he subscribes to.



> Quote:
> have Adelphia HD and you can see my posts re: weak HD signal for locals.



I'm not sure what you mean by this. There have been times when I've lost a local on Adelphia for a time but as of late that hasn't been happening (knock on wood). On the other hand, I've seen premium channels go out to from time to time. When I've called Adelphia they usually say it's the broadcasters problem, which may or not be true. How about a link to your post?


----------



## Mr. Snifter

Hey Guys,


I am wondering where do you go to find which programs are in HD for the week? Is the a centralized place with all the info? or do you just go the the stations' websites? I get OTA signals.


Thanks in advance, I am a noob with HD at the moment


----------



## ironmanix




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'm not going to be able to be of a LOT of help here, but ditching the Terk 55 is your first choice.
> 
> 
> You can likely get better results from ANY antenna up there, even a pretty decent sized outdoor one (I think the Channel Master 4227 [?] is usually a recommended antenna). I'm mostly using indoor antennas, with a combination of an RCA ANT1205 for VHF-based DTs (including WOIO/19, which is on DT 10), and a new Silver Sensor for the UHF-based DTs (everyone else in the market except for WKYC).
> 
> 
> This is all temporary, since I'm going to be getting Adelphia's HD box on Friday.
> 
> 
> Even in the world of outdoor antennas, you have to keep the above in mind... you need a good VHF antenna to pick up WKYC-DT 2 and WOIO-DT 10 (especially for WKYC, it's in low-VHF), and a good UHF antenna to pick up all the other digital stations in the Cleveland market.*



Thanks for the help.


I have an HD-tuner in my Hitachi wide-screen AND a Samsung HDTivo AND right now a Comcast HD/DVR (which I'm likely going to give back as my experience with Comcast has been nothing short of incredibly horrible).



If i pick up a Channel Master 4227 (?) to get everything but WKYC then can I also hang an antenna that DOES get WKYC and put it 'in-line' with the other antenna? I have one length of coax running from my attic to my television right now so most of the work is done.


Also, is it required to power the antenna? If so, how do you provide power - can it be provided in line as well?


For the record, I have the Terk because I didn't have Comcast for last year's superbowl and I wanted something managable to pick it up. I've had it in my attic ever since and I haven't used it and it never really fully worked outside of superbowl Sunday when I had to do a TON of tweaking to get anything.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mr. Snifter_
> *Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> I am wondering where do you go to find which programs are in HD for the week? Is the a centralized place with all the info? or do you just go the the stations' websites? I get OTA signals.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance, I am a noob with HD at the moment*






My favorite sites are:

http://www.TitanTV.com 
http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *If i pick up a Channel Master 4227 (?) to get everything but WKYC then can I also hang an antenna that DOES get WKYC and put it 'in-line' with the other antenna? I have one length of coax running from my attic to my television right now so most of the work is done.*



You don't need separate antennas for WKYC and WOIO - you need a combination VHF/UHF antenna. I only mentioned it because if you get just a UHF bowtie or yagi or something, you will need the VHF half. There are many combination outdoor VHF/UHF antennas you can put up there in the attic. If you can do this, I'd strongly advise it.


I mention the indoor stuff because I use it, and one of the better indoor antennas (Silver Sensor) is UHF only, though the RCA I use also has both.


I notice you're up in Mentor, so I suspect you wouldn't have a lot of luck with indoor antennas.


As mentioned, all of the Cleveland market stations are broadcasting from roughly the same area - Parma. Many of them are either on the same tower, or on towers near other towers. (Anyone who drives to Parmatown Mall will see what I'm talking about...) If you're not trying to get out of market stations, or stations like WEAO/Akron, you can "set and forget" the antenna.



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> Also, is it required to power the antenna? If so, how do you provide power - can it be provided in line as well?*


*
*The outdoor/mast antennas do not need power as far as I know. The indoor "amplified" ones do, but the Silver Sensor (mentioned above) does not.


I'm not all that versed on the larger masts...since I've been using indoor units. Head over to the HDTV Hardware subtopic on AVSForum, where you can find a wealth of information on outdoor antennas...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, if your read all of Inundated's posts he's really not getting rid of anything. He's just moving some stuff around and the Adelphia box is an add on because he has had trouble with channel 3.*



Correct. And I'll probably keep the OTA box on my main TV for a while, while I figure out how reliable the OTA stations are on Adelphia (and to keep getting WOIO, though I would HAVE to think that they'll be on Adelphia at SOME point...if only because Browns fans will storm the cable company!).


I also signed up for the HDPlus package, which brings in ESPNHD, HDNet, HDNet Movies and InHD 1 and 2. It's also known as the "Adelphia Vacuums Money Directly Out of Your Wallet" package.







I don't have HBO/Showtime/etc., though I'm thinking of it.


----------



## Lyle O

ironmanix,

I live in Willoughby, by the lake, 2 streets out of Mentor. I am using a Radio Shack (vu-120 I believe) mounted outside of the second story and a Dish 6000 tuner. I don't use a rotator or amplifier. I get pretty good signals all around (Digital 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 and 61). WKYC (3) is the worst and can breakup some of the time, but overall it is watchable. Hope this helps.

Jeff


----------



## egman

Yes, Adelphia is expensive, but it works and I think it is cheaper than buying all of the satellite equipment. I have the SA Explorer 8000 HD. Just an FYI, I have the PowerLink, HD Plus, no premiums and my bill is $95 (for six months). Then the PowerLink goes up from 26.99 to 39.99, but they say there is another package to buy at that point to keep the cost down. We'll see then. Nobody ever said HDTV was cheap.


I still have very regular problems with the locals, but it may be the wiring in my house, which I will be bypassing shortly. I'll post an update then.


----------



## ironmanix




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Lyle O_
> *ironmanix,
> 
> I live in Willoughby, by the lake, 2 streets out of Mentor. I am using a Radio Shack (vu-120 I believe) mounted outside of the second story and a Dish 6000 tuner. I don't use a rotator or amplifier. I get pretty good signals all around (Digital 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 and 61). WKYC (3) is the worst and can breakup some of the time, but overall it is watchable. Hope this helps.
> 
> Jeff*



Cool. I've had limited success just fooling around - I haven't really done anything formal on top of the house, just ran cable to my attic and set up the Terk (which appears worthless, btw).


Here's another dumb question. The website that tells you your mileage and direction to the broadcasting area did not mention an available digital station for CBS. They are wrong, right? The other thing is that the DirectTV schedule for the NFL package shows which games they will make available in HD and which aren't (I don't have the package but I can see them on the programming guide). They don't show the Browns broadcasting in HD this weekend. Can anybody confirm that the game will indeed be broadcast in HD before I rush into this? I'm fairly confident that the OSU game is NOT in HD but it is irrelevent anyway because I think it would be on one of the Comcast locals that I have.


I really appreciate your input, guys. Thanks a ton. I'm hoping this goes smoothly - football has become all but unwatchable in SD after watching in HD. I try to hit most OSU/Browns home games so half of the time it isn't an issue anyway.


GO BROWNS. GO BUCKS.


----------



## egman

This schedule indicates HDTV for the Browns game.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/


----------



## Inundated

As far as I know, the Browns are in HD this weekend, one of CBS's 3 HD games this week (against the Cowboys). I believe they're also in HD the following two weeks...one more time on CBS, and one game that Fox will pick up since the road team will be an NFC team.


Sure enough, this schedule:

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl 


...shows Browns/NY Giants a week from Sunday in HD. The following week, FOX has the Browns, as they host the Redskins...and nearly all of FOX's games this year will be in HDTV. The only possible conflict is if FOX has more than 6 games in a week, and that week (10/3), they only have 5.



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> The website that tells you your mileage and direction to the broadcasting area did not mention an available digital station for CBS. They are wrong, right?*


*
*Unless I've been dreaming watching U.S. Open tennis and CBS dramas and sitcoms in HD via WOIO/19.










So, yes, the game is (as far as anyone knows) in HD this weekend, and yes, you should be able to get it fine on "Cleveland's CBS 19(-1)" with any decent antenna. No, the Terk is not a decent antenna.










Again, you shouldn't need a rotator or to move the antenna unless you are looking for out of market stations from places like Youngstown and Erie. I bet if you got a really good antenna and swung it around, you might have a shot at Erie, if they're putting out DT signals.


But for Cleveland...no moving needed, everyone's basically in the same direction from you.


----------



## Tom in OH

here's another fun antenna listing/direction site:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *Can somebody please advise on what I need to do antenna-wise and what I can expect signal-wise out in Mentor Ohio? ... Should I consider one of those antenna rotating devices?
> *



I have a rotor (aka rotator). Just because of CBS.


Yes, all the stations are in the same direction from us, but CBS won't come in from the same position as the other stations. I need to tweak the direction for CBS. And it varies by day. Because they're broadcasting with such a weak signal we are susceptible to all climate changes.


If you have installed by now and without a rotor, I'm sure you're going to have to point the antenna for WOIO at least to get you through the Browns game.


----------



## cristo28

I agree with Stan I am in Avon, I have a radio shack RU120, to avoid headaches I found rotor to be worth the expense.


John


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by StanZ_
> *I have a rotor (aka rotator). Just because of CBS.*



In the "now that you mention it" department:


Come to think of it, I can't find an antenna position for my RCA ANT1250 that will receive both WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT, without moving it.


I also have had to nudge around the Silver Sensor for the UHF DT stations, but it's just a nudge or two, and not always needed.


I'd advise our OP to get the antenna, put it up and lock into WOIO before Sunday, and deal with the rest, later. As I recall, he's putting it in the attic, and not on the roof, so a rotator may not be in the cards.


----------



## cristo28

Before I put mine on roof, I had one in the attic, but that did not last too long because I kept sending the wife upstairs to "nudge" it into place. I got her the rotor for valentines day and its been allot happy around here.


John


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Before I put mine on roof, I had one in the attic, but that did not last too long because I kept sending the wife upstairs to "nudge" it into place. I got her the rotor for valentines day and its been allot happy around here.
> 
> 
> John*



lol. John, if I gave that to my wife for Valentines day she would plug it in, set me on it and rotate it.


----------



## cristo28

I try to keep her expectations low, the year before she got new tires.


john


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *I try to keep her expectations low, the year before she got new tires.
> 
> 
> john*



she might appreciate NFL sunday ticket as an early Xmas gift...


----------



## hookbill

I'm still trying to convince my wife that the HDTV I bought in July is an anniversary present to us.......so in response she went out and bought a new diamond wedding band and told me that was my anniversary present.


Her birthday is coming up on 9/26..........but since no DTV can't buy her any NFL.


Maybe I'll try Major League Baseball next year on Valentines day.


Whoa...what am I thinking!


----------



## cristo28

Not to coach you but the secret is to keep expectations low. and then just do the stupid male routine, for some reason that works all the time.


Hey Tom you guys get HDTV in Shelby?


John


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by egman_
> *Jim-
> 
> 
> OK. That makes sense. But, does my plan to run a direct line from the drop on the side of the house make sense, or should I just get a technician out? I am a self-help kind of guy and this seems like a signal problem.*



Can't hurt to try it. But I can't help but wonder if it's not an Adelphia problem somewhere up the line. In the long run, you're probably going to need the technician regardless.


My problem is that the failure is intermittent here, so there's no easy way for me to demonstrate it to a serviceman.


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia folks - are you getting major herringbone interference on SCIFI (59 analog)?


I'd wonder if it was local, but all other channels are normal. I'm kinda worrying that it might throw a monkey wrench in my HDTV DVR install tomorrow (signal?), but I WILL have a technician out...so maybe I can ask him!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Not to coach you but the secret is to keep expectations low. and then just do the stupid male routine, for some reason that works all the time.
> 
> 
> Hey Tom you guys get HDTV in Shelby?
> 
> 
> John*



Hi John, it comes and goes... not very reliable. How's your signal on PBS-HD 50-1(45,49)? Worked well here yesterday but having trouble today.


----------



## cristo28

Tom, You know I haven't tried PBS OTA I kind have been enjoying adelphia and haven't touched my OTA setup lately. I grew up in your area and I always like to joke around with my friends who live in the area, its a great town most of the times. Is it any easier getting C-Bus stations?


----------



## Inundated

Is WMFD's DT transmitter up yet? I'd imagine Tom could get that one, unless it's not powerful enough to hit the next county up










cristo - don't know if you can get WEAO/50-1 up there, but if you have time to mess with it, it might be fun...they have a 24/7 HD feed from PBS. I imagine WVIZ/25-1 would, too, but I don't know if it's even on the air or at very, very low power from Brookpark Road.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Is WMFD's DT transmitter up yet? I'd imagine Tom could get that one, unless it's not powerful enough to hit the next county up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



They've been transmitting digitally for a couple years but it's digital 480i and has a static border on the left which is annoying. I wrote to them about a year ago and asked if they had any plans for HD in the future and they had none at the time.


----------



## cristo28

Inundated, up where?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Inundated, up where?*



Your location says you're in Cleveland.


I don't know how far north WEAO-DT 50 hits...


----------



## ironmanix

If you have the NFL Sunday Ticket for DirectTV do you get the local Browns games on it? Do they black them out in Cleveland?


----------



## cristo28

Yes Avon lorain County, and yes Browns games on NFL ticket is blackout ed within so many miles of Cleveland.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Yes Avon lorain County, and yes Browns games on NFL ticket is blackout ed within so many miles of Cleveland.*



Oh, OK. My "up there" was a generic reference to anything north of Akron.










I doubt you'll have a shot at WEAO-DT 50...


----------



## cristo28

I know I am just having fun, I can't seem to get it in but I have only made several attempts with my ota and rotor.



john "go bucks"


----------



## ParsonsBri

Bad news, at least in the short term on CBS HD on Adelphia. I sent the following email to Fred Dixon who is in marketing for Adelphia and received his response today.


From: Brian Parsons [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 2:50 PM

To: '[email protected]'

Subject: Adelphia HD Complaint


Fred,


I just left you a voice mail, but thought I would follow up with you via email as well.




I am an Adelphia customer living in Avon Ohio. I have both Adelphia high speed internet and cable with the HD package.




My issue is with the lack of WOIO in the HD package. As I am sure you know, this CBS affiliate offers great HD prime time programming as well


as most NFL AFC games. The Browns will be playing this Sunday at 4:15pm in HDTV and I will be unable to watch it due to the fact that Adelphia does


not have the HD channel. As you also know, there are many options for service today including DBS and even OTA reception.


Could you please respond at your earliest convenience as to the date when this channel will be available? (Hopefully by this weekend!!)


Thanks in advance,


Brian Parsons


From: Fred Dixon [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 3:59 PM

To: Brian Parsons

Subject: RE: Adelphia HD Complaint



Hello Brian, I apologize for not getting back sooner but this has been a very busy week. In response to your inquiry regarding WOIO in HD, currently we are in negotiations for the rights to broadcast the HD signal. We are aware of how important it is for Adelphia to have that option available on our HD line-up, and we doing everything in our power to give our customers every available option.


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately, that's the same answer we've been getting since Adelphia launched HD last year. We know it's possible, since WOW has CBS...


----------



## hookbill

That's exactly the answer that you would have gotten from a CSR on the phone too.


I have no doubt they would like to give it to us but I'll bet because of the fact that the Browns are on WOIO the station itself may be offering at a high price tag.


----------



## cristo28

Brian, Thanks for the info, this is why I have kept my OTA set-up. Its gonna be a while.


John


----------



## Inundated

It's been a long, frustrating day that's finally resulted in a working Adelphia SA 8000HD DVR and the full complement of HD service. But...


* The technician's first visit resulted in one of the non-DVR boxes, the 3250, I think, being delivered. I specifically asked for the DVR box. The technician didn't have any with him, so he left the 3250 and I told him I'd go up to Brunswick (nearest walk-in) to pick it up.


* Adelphia didn't, despite telling me they did, turn on the HD PLUS tier. And in the process of this box swapping, someone deactivated one of my other two boxes, the second time this has happened in a week!


* Finally got it all working tonight. The PQ is fine, though I get occasional dropouts both in video and audio (about once a minute or so, on average). The 8000HD does allow me to swap around between stretched and zoomed pictures for my 4:3 screen, but doesn't remember that setting per channel...and doesn't output 480i component to an analog set, apparently...at least not accurately. I have to use S-Video.


Add to this the absence of WOIO in the HD pak (see above), and I'm not a 100% happy camper. (Oh, and I'm having renewed problems pulling in WOIO-DT OTA. Are they lower power tonight or am I just being victimized by the weather?)


The dropouts are driving me nuts. It appears to be motion related...if they're doing anything of any substance motion-wise in this baseball game, for example...swinging a bat, etc... (it's not all motion, that just seems to trigger it when it does happen...just now the pitcher went into his motions and became a blur, but the time after that, he was fine) I might have a technician back out this week to see if we have a signal strength issue or something. I assume it's not supposed to happen this much?


I'm *this* close to getting a decent outdoor OTA antenna I can squeeze stuff out of and hope I can hit Parma off my deck, and dumping all of Adelphia. It's the worst cable company in America...and it doesn't seem to care.


----------



## hookbill

Mike, when you set this thing up did you review your set up yourself or did the tech set things up for you? Did you set up for 480i and 1080i only? You can set it up for 480p as well and also 720p.


If you want to know how to change the settings it's right on the front of the box. Press the button next to the on button while the unit is off simultaneously.


If you already knew this then it looks like you'll need to get an HD set.


C'mon, you know you want one.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *If you want to know how to change the settings it's right on the front of the box. Press the button next to the on button while the unit is off simultaneously.*



Yeah, I already caught onto that. It says to hit INFO and GUIDE while the 8000HD is off. That cycles it through HD and SD modes. Neither of them work with component video fully hooked up to my SD TV. The SD mode, with those cables hooked up, looks funny (color/resolution wise), and I figured out why on page 9 of the manual:


"HD Mode or SD Mode? When you set up the 8000HD in HD mode, the connector Y/V Video Out becomes the HD Y video output (Y portion of the YPbPr video output). See the connection diagrams in the Connecting Entertainment Devices section. When you set up the 8000HD in SD mode, the connector labeled Y/V Video Out acts as an SD video out connector (V). See the diagram on page 14 for an example."


So, it appears that all three component output cables do not get used in SD mode at all - the box shuts off the other two in SD mode and changes the Y output.


As a result, I'm settling for S-Video (and am still feeding the component video from my OTA STB), the best I can get otherwise. It's still not bad...just not as breathtaking. But if I really want breathtaking...I need to go all the way!











> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> If you already knew this then it looks like you'll need to get an HD set.
> 
> 
> C'mon, you know you want one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*
*Yeah, I just don't know WHICH one!







I was interested in a $716 special on a new Toshiba HD direct view CRT set I read about elsewhere here, but then it seemed like everyone had a major complaint about it...so I backed off (I almost ordered it!). And I think the full blown large plasma/DLP/LCD set would be overkill for my small, modest condo...so I'm probably going CRT.


BTW, the dropouts have largely disappeared on Adelphia. I wonder if it was an issue of both ESPN and inHD running baseball games (with some motion at times) at the same time? I wonder if that pushes the bandwidth limits... then again, inHD is running sumo wrestling now... LOL


And I managed to get an antenna placement for WOIO-DT...for now. I don't wanna lose this before Sunday! I just hope we will not too long from now... look back at the days where they had to go through negotiations to get local OTA affiliates on cable in HD as "the bad old days".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Yeah, I already caught onto that. It says to hit INFO and GUIDE while the 8000HD is off. That cycles it through HD and SD modes. Neither of them work with component video fully hooked up to my SD TV. The SD mode, with those cables hooked up, looks funny (color/resolution wise), and I figured out why on page 9 of the manual:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I just don't know WHICH one!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was interested in a $716 special on a new Toshiba HD direct view CRT set I read about elsewhere here, but then it seemed like everyone had a major complaint about it...so I backed off (I almost ordered it!). And I think the full blown large plasma/DLP/LCD set would be overkill for my small, modest condo...so I'm probably going CRT.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the dropouts have largely disappeared on Adelphia. I wonder if it was an issue of both ESPN and inHD running baseball games (with some motion at times) at the same time? I wonder if that pushes the bandwidth limits... then again, inHD is running sumo wrestling now... LOL
> 
> 
> And I managed to get an antenna placement for WOIO-DT...for now. I don't wanna lose this before Sunday! I just hope we will not too long from now... look back at the days where they had to go through negotiations to get local OTA affiliates on cable in HD as "the bad old days".*



FYI...I was in Walmart the yesterday and spotted a Panasonic HD Ready set for around 750.00, 30" WS. They also had a Sanyo 27" HD ready for around 575.00 but I wouldn't touch that.


I think very highly of my Sony KV-30HS420. I believed it's priced right now at CC and BB for 995.00 (just don't let them sell you any of their bs Monster cables, that's how they make up for the low price). I'll give you some features:


DRC - (Digital Reality Creation) Mutifunction. Unlike conventional line doublers, the DRC Multifunction feature replaces the signal's NTSC waveform with HD equivalent, while doubling the number of vertical and horizontal lines. This results in four times the density for quality sources, such as DVD satellite, and digital camcorders. The Video Menu allows you to select interlaced, progresive or CineMotion output.



SCREEN MODE - Enables you to resize picture depending on the singal source.


Favorite Channels...which you wouldn't use with cable


ClearEdge VM (Velocity Modulation): Sharpens picture definition by enhancing vertical lines


Steady Sound - Equalizes volume levels so there is consistent output between programs and commercials


2 Component and 1 HDMI inputs...S video and cable analog (like you would use that)! Three other inputs for SD television and audio.


V Chip...if you got kids...everybody has that


HD Detailer Wideband video amplifier has a high bandwith frequency rating, which allows


CineMotion (Reverse 3-2 pulldown processing provides optimal picture quality for film-based sources (media originally shot in 24 frames-per-second format).


It has alot of things you cand dow with the sound like virtual surround and something called WOW which I never use. Also simulated stereo for mono broadcasts.


Now I'll tell you what I dislike:


Quality of analog picture on some of Adelphias stations can be poor.


It weighs 150 lbs. Once you get it in there don't plan on moving it unless you got help. Anyway, good luck!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I think very highly of my Sony KV-30HS420. I believed it's priced right now at CC and BB for 995.00 (just don't let them sell you any of their bs Monster cables, that's how they make up for the low price).*



I think I'd buy a Terk antenna before I'd buy a Monster cable, and that means...I'd buy neither one.










I've looked at the Sony you have...in the stores, at least, it's been one of the ones I've been interested in. Sony also kinda has that "pay for the name" problem, but the actual TV sets still appear to be solid, good performers. I'm wondering how much I'll miss a 32" set here, but when you think about it, a widescreen set is about what I'm getting now doing letterboxing on the Toshiba 32" set. I don't need a huge set, though...and the cost difference between a 30", 32" and 34" set can be pretty huge in and of itself.



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> Quality of analog picture on some of Adelphias stations can be poor.*


*
*Quality of some of Adelphia's analog stations is poor, period.










Adelphia is, by far, the worst cable TV company in America. Even without going through that customer service hell I went through the other day. I'm nearly on bended knee each night begging Time Warner to take them over!


----------



## Shark73

Hookbill,


I've been looking at that Sony for my bedroom. I've been going back and forth between spending the money for a 42" Pio plasma or just going cheap and getting the Sony 30" tube. What is you overall impression of HD material on that set?


Thanks for the input.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Hookbill,
> 
> 
> I've been looking at that Sony for my bedroom. I've been going back and forth between spending the money for a 42" Pio plasma or just going cheap and getting the Sony 30" tube. What is you overall impression of HD material on that set?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input.*



I think it has great pq. I have to disagree a bit with Inundated about the paying for the name thing. It has been my experience that you do pay more for Sony but the reason is quality. There are only two electronics that I trust and that is Sony and Panasonic.


One more comment about the HD material. Keep in mind I'm watching through component video as Adelphia drags it's but in activating the DVI port on their HD/DVR (Scientific Atlantic 8000 HD). I'm highly impressed even with SD Digital. And another comment about that set. I don't have Dolby but the sound quality it delivers on it's own is so good that unless I'm watching a concert I don't even need to run it through my stereo. I do anyway because I like the steady sound feature which you can still use even if your piping it through your amp. Oh, My amp is a Sony too. So is my DVD/VCR combo unit.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I think it has great pq. I have to disagree a bit with Inundated about the paying for the name thing. It has been my experience that you do pay more for Sony but the reason is quality. There are only two electronics that I trust and that is Sony and Panasonic.*



As of recent years, there's been a lot of debate about Sony and how not everything is worth the extra money with the Sony name...some stuff isn't even built by them anymore. But I think they're still building their own TVs and are still solid there.


Went shopping a little today, and it was hard to compare the three sets in my sights...the Sony you have, a similar Panasonic model and a similar Toshiba. For whatever reason, the store I was in (h.h. gregg) had very, very poor analog signals feeding all the tube TVs, including the HD sets!


Re: Adelphia...the dropouts/pixelization have not persisted, though they do come back from time to time. I have no idea if it has to do with bandwidth use, signal strength or what. Right now, it's (near) perfect.


----------



## hookbill

Innundated, I also wanted to say something to you about the baseball on ESPN and INHD. You were theorizing that perhaps with both live shows it was taking too much band with causing sound drop outs. Well, ESPN isn't currently showing any baseball in HD. Now it is still digital so there may be something to that but I kind of doubt it.


Going back to the Sony thing; the way I feel about it is that everytime I have bought Sony I have had great quality and no problems. I don't care if a tribe of pigmies in Africa are putting it together, Sony makes sure it works and that's what counts. I think their quality is unsurpassed.


Panasonic gives me the same feeling. Nice and warm and fuzzy.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Innundated, I also wanted to say something to you about the baseball on ESPN and INHD. You were theorizing that perhaps with both live shows it was taking too much band with causing sound drop outs. Well, ESPN isn't currently showing any baseball in HD. Now it is still digital so there may be something to that but I kind of doubt it.*



ESPN was running baseball, I think (would have to go back and check), but yes, it wasn't in HD...I forgot about that. But I had the dropouts - and picture pixellation - on both ESPNHD and INHD that night.


I'm watching the ND/MSU college game on ESPNHD, in HD, right now, and I haven't seen the same problems with the funky pixels or the dropouts.


I wonder what is causing them? And if it's an Adelphia/Cleveland problem or beyond...or a local problem on my hookup with cable signal. I did notice that the SD channels seemed a little clearer today. Maybe I screwed and unscrewed and rescrewed in the connectors in just right!


BTW, I get that same "warm, fuzzy feeling" about Toshiba stuff...my SD 32" set is fabulous...and is probably about as close to HD as you'll get with an SD set, with this feed. But Toshiba's new 30" HD set is getting a LOT of complaints in a thread in the "Directview Tube" section here on AVSForum... a set that was on Amazon for $716 earlier this week, and I almost bought it!


----------



## hookbill

Here is one review on the Sony: http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Sony_KV...-30895537.html 


If you do a search on your Toshiba model they probably have a review on that as well. Also CNET has a review as well but I think zdnet and CNET are merged at the hip.


----------



## ironmanix

I'm trying to get WOIO with my Terk-55 (I realize it sucks but I have one on-hand and I'm desperate.


I can get 5-1, 8-1, 61.1, 43.1 with no problems. I have the samsung HD receiver that I got with my DirectTVHD.


I have the terk in the attic with about 70 feet of additional coax - direct run to TV. I can bring it all over the upstairs if necessary but can't get a signa. It is jumping from 0 to 45 to 66 to 50, to 70 to 0, etc.


It is windy outside - why would the signal be so jumpy?


I put on a cheapy rabbit ears radio shack antenna and get basically the same results. Any ideas? I really want the game in HD today.


----------



## Inundated

Well, don't break any limbs trying to get WOIO this early afternoon...the idiots at 19/43 haven't turned on the HD for the 1 PM game!


Does anyone here have a 24 hour number for "Cleveland's CBS (In SD) 19"?


Iron - the Terk is likely gonna getcha nowhere. If I were you, I'd spend the 1 PM game running down to Radio Shack and getting one of their rooftop antennas, and mount it in the attic.


FWIW, here in Akron and with just the amplified RCA ANT1250 indoor antenna, I'm having no signal problems with WOIO 19-1...just the stupid station itself not feeding the game in HD.


----------



## Inundated

Just talked to whoever answered the newsroom line (216-781-1900 or 877-929-1943). She said they had some calls, and when someone had called earlier (last week) and she checked into it...she said "they told me not all games are in HDTV".


Well, this one is, I told her...and I mentioned that if they think they're getting complaints now, wait till the Browns game!


Just another example of incompetence out of that station, but I digress. Hopefully, she's talking to the control room. If we don't see them switch to HD in the next half-hour or so, please, call that number and bug them!


----------



## Inundated

Hold your calls to WOIO/19... they just put on the HD feed of Steelers/Ravens. And it's looking GOOD...outstanding...my first CBS NFL game!


There were reports over in the CBS HD NFL thread in the "HDTV Programming" board here that the game didn't have any announcers for those watching in HD. Maybe that's why WOIO didn't switch to it...anyway, it's all working now, picture, announcers and all.


----------



## hookbill

Since Adelphia still is not broasting 19 in HD I'm watching Green Bay v Chicago...and flipping to espnhd for a no hd broadcast of Yankees/Red Sox


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Since Adelphia still is not broasting 19 in HD I'm watching Green Bay v Chicago...and flipping to espnhd for a no hd broadcast of Yankees/Red Sox*



I'm fortunate that I still have my OTA tuner hooked up to get 19. I can't believe that with the Browns having their first HD game this season...nothing has happened on the Adelphia/19 front. They must be working on it...they did get FOX 8 up! But I don't have any confidence in Raycom (19/43's owner). Adelphia may be the world's worst cable company, but Raycom may be a notch away from beating Sinclair as the world's worst TV group owner










Maybe if you called up the news director of "19 Action News" and told him you wanted to see the cheerleaders in HD on Adelphia, they'd do something...


----------



## ironmanix




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Well, don't break any limbs trying to get WOIO this early afternoon...the idiots at 19/43 haven't turned on the HD for the 1 PM game!
> 
> 
> Does anyone here have a 24 hour number for "Cleveland's CBS (In SD) 19"?
> 
> 
> Iron - the Terk is likely gonna getcha nowhere. If I were you, I'd spend the 1 PM game running down to Radio Shack and getting one of their rooftop antennas, and mount it in the attic.
> 
> 
> FWIW, here in Akron and with just the amplified RCA ANT1250 indoor antenna, I'm having no signal problems with WOIO 19-1...just the stupid station itself not feeding the game in HD.*



Well, FINALLY got a good signal.


I took your advice - quick trip to the Rat Shack for a rooftop ($50 level) and threw it in the attic (which is no small feat - up and down, up and down through the hole in the upstairs ceiling).


Anyway - I get a hiccup every 3 or 5 minutes but generally a pretty good picture. I'm going to have one of the guys with the bucket trucks where I work stop by this week so I can just roof mount this thing.



Steelers losing (WOOHOO!) and looks like I'll get to see my first Browns in HD game since buying my TV last January!


Sweet! Thanks for the help, guys.


----------



## Inundated

Too bad you're watching a pretty bad game right now!










Glad you got it going, though!


----------



## ironmanix

I almost wish I didn't go through the trouble. Geez they are horrible.


----------



## ironmanix

FWIW, I'm getting WKYC perfect as well. I did a total of about 10 minutes of uneducated tweaking and I'm in an attic and I appear to be getting everything great.


I'm hoping that on the roof (out of the attic) improves the reliability further.


----------



## Inundated

Glad to hear it's working for you, ironmanix! Yes, out on the roof should help you even more...who knows, you might scan and pick up an Erie or Youngstown station! I know Youngstown has two HD stations - and think WFMJ-DT 20 has been picked up by some outside the market. I don't know if ANY of the Erie DT stations are up. You'd likely have to have a rotor for out of market stations, though.


Whichever team wanted to win that game, they were apparently nowhere near the stadium today...both of 'em. Vinny passed for over 300 yards, but lived up to his old Cleveland nickname "Interceptaverde"...for that matter, so did Garcia. Yipes!


I'm thinking of getting an outdoor antenna and finding SOMEWHERE to put it here. Maybe I can mount it up high on the wall by my large loft window here on the second floor...and convince people it's a new art sculpture! But as long as I can pick up WOIO and WEAO OTA for now, I'll wait... the amplified RCA ANT1250 keps in check with WOIO for about 97% of the afternoon. Too bad it couldn't make the teams play better.


And I'll hold off on the actual HD set for now...as I've solved one problem. I couldn't get my HD cable DVR, the 8000HD, output component video to my Toshiba (SD) 32" set, which does accept 480i output from my OTA STB (the US Digital I use to pick up WOIO and WEAO). I was feeding it with S-Video, which was noticably less clear and smooth.


It turns out I had to kick the box into one more mode...into actual HD output mode (not SD), and then use a special key sequence to pump out 480i. Once I did that, it's fine...and looks just as good as the OTA box did in component video. Light years better...and no S-Video "grille" in front of the picture.


The only problem? The TV only has one component video, so I had to relegate the OTA STB to S-Video







But I can always switch it back next Sunday...


This picture is good enough for me, that I'll not pull the trigger on buying a regular HD set until I'm 100% satisfied with my decision on which kind to purchase, let alone which brand.


----------



## ironmanix

I'm trying to decide between all of my options.


I have comcast cable installed now (two HD-DVR's and one Digital box), I have DirectTV HD installed (samsung HD box - the rest sony receiver-only boxes) and I now have the rooftop antenna.


Does anybody know about splitting the rooftop antenna signal? Will that degrade the signal at all?


----------



## cneubert

It depends on how strong your signal is. If you have a good strong signal, then splitting it might not hurt you. If splitting the signal causes your signal strength to drop too much, you can amplify the signal first, then split it.


----------



## intermod

Just try it!


Hook a splitter and a short coax jumper right to the back of your set and see if you loose any channels. 2 port splitters degrade the signal level by

3.5db. (you will loose a little more than 1/2 the energy.) lots more loss if you get one of those 4 or 8 port jobs. I like to scan for new channels all

the time It would drive me nuts just knowing it was in the line.


Let us Know


Dan


----------



## ironmanix

Well.. I haven't even split it but tonight I'm missing the signal on two or three separate channels.


This is ri-goddamned-diculous. If Comcast would just close this deal with WOIO everything would be fine.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *This is ri-goddamned-diculous. If Comcast would just close this deal with WOIO everything would be fine.*



My feelings about Adelphia too. Which probably means that WOIO is asking for a huge chunk of money. I don't think this is the cable companies fault (for once)!


----------



## adriancuc

I am having the same problem here in Mentor ( no 3.1 and 19.1). Is there anybody in the sorounding area that can get OTA 3.1 and 19.1? If yes, what kind of antenna are you using?


BTW, I have a motorolla VOOM receiver.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *I'm trying to get WOIO with my Terk-55 (I realize it sucks but I have one on-hand and I'm desperate.
> 
> 
> I can get 5-1, 8-1, 61.1, 43.1 with no problems. I have the samsung HD receiver that I got with my DirectTVHD.
> 
> 
> I have the terk in the attic with about 70 feet of additional coax - direct run to TV. I can bring it all over the upstairs if necessary but can't get a signa. It is jumping from 0 to 45 to 66 to 50, to 70 to 0, etc.
> 
> 
> It is windy outside - why would the signal be so jumpy?
> 
> 
> I put on a cheapy rabbit ears radio shack antenna and get basically the same results. Any ideas? I really want the game in HD today.*


----------



## jtscherne

Except that Wide Open West has WOIO, so I guess they must have been able to work out a deal...




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *My feelings about Adelphia too. Which probably means that WOIO is asking for a huge chunk of money. I don't think this is the cable companies fault (for once)!*


----------



## Rbuchina

I could not pick up WOIO out of Mentor last night either. I was just barely getting 3-01 but it was its usual unwatchable breaking up picture and sound. The Comcast 3-01 seems to be improving lately though. LAX was rock solid on Comcast. I know its only a matter of time until Comcast gets WOIO on line. We need to be patient. I do not understand why a network holds their signal from a provider. I will not watch their programming if the HD picture is poor and therefore will not have an opportunity to be influenced by their commercials. Perhaps we should be pointing this out to the sponsors of WOIO TV shows.


Ray


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by adriancuc_
> *I am having the same problem here in Mentor ( no 3.1 and 19.1). Is there anybody in the sorounding area that can get OTA 3.1 and 19.1? If yes, what kind of antenna are you using?
> 
> 
> BTW, I have a motorolla VOOM receiver.*



3.1 and 19.1 wouldn't come in this morning at all over here. Then, the second the pres. began to speak, 3.1 popped in rock solid ( strength of 61 ), then seconds after they broke away 3.1 started to break up again.


By the way, tried to watch the Cowboy - Browns game last Sunday in HD but 19-1 was very choppy and unwatchable. Did anyone else have trouble or is it just my distance from the tower causing the breakups?


----------



## ironmanix

I just put the radio shack VU-90 XR in my attic, of all places and I got the entire game on Sunday with very little interference.


I was getting everything but WKYC and I even started getting WKYC in bursts but then last night (Monday) I lost 19-1 and 8-1. WEWS seems to be the most consistent signal.


I'll be throwing this thing on the roof next weekend to hopefully increase signal. I had that terk in my attic and it was basically worthless.


Where are you in Mentor? Would the airport be causing problems? I'm about 2 miles directly east of Lost Nation airport.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=15%2D2152 


The


----------



## ironmanix

Sorry - my bad - I thought you were in Mentor but that was ME that was from mentor..


----------



## ironmanix




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rbuchina_
> *I could not pick up WOIO out of Mentor last night either. I was just barely getting 3-01 but it was its usual unwatchable breaking up picture and sound. The Comcast 3-01 seems to be improving lately though. LAX was rock solid on Comcast. I know its only a matter of time until Comcast gets WOIO on line. We need to be patient. I do not understand why a network holds their signal from a provider. I will not watch their programming if the HD picture is poor and therefore will not have an opportunity to be influenced by their commercials. Perhaps we should be pointing this out to the sponsors of WOIO TV shows.
> 
> 
> Ray*



I got it from a guy that at Comcast that they "just ordered some expensive part" that will fix the NBC on Comcast problem


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ironmanix_
> *
> 
> I was getting everything but WKYC and I even started getting WKYC in bursts but then last night (Monday) I lost 19-1 and 8-1.
> 
> 
> The*



Trouble with 8-1 here today too. It's usually stronger. It appears they're fiddling with the signals during the day. Hopefully this will improve before primetime.


Let us know how your switch to the roof helps out.


Have u seen this site? Be sure to click the link at the top(at the page from the link below) which goes to a US map. Zoom into your city by 8 or 9 clicks and pinpoint the exact location on your street and determine the lat and long(-). Then enter the values and a wealth of info shows up. I'm pretty sure our magnetic declination is about -7.

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/


----------



## PPS

FYI. Yesterday, I heard the traffic guy on WOIO say that they are working on their antenna and don't be surprised if the digital signal gets messed up.


----------



## ajstan99

Has anyone else tried the Jensen TV-920 low-profile indoor antenna? It may be worth a try for those of you who live less than 10 miles or so from the stations you want to receive.


I live near Strongsville High School and have had consistent success pulling in 3, 5, 8, 19 and 61 with over an 80%+ signal, in many cases without having to reorient the antenna.


In contrast to other posts to this thread, 3 and 19 are the strongest and most reliable stations (with the exception of this past Sunday night and Monday, but it sounds like it was a broadcast issue.)


WUAB comes in sporadically and PBS-46 is non-existent.


----------



## Inundated

I had some sporadic problems with WOIO/19-1 yesterday, but it's fine now. No problems at all with the Browns game either, well, aside from the play. I'm assuming the problems were related to the work mentioned on this thread.


WKYC/3-1-2-3 is still a problem child for me OTA...but is fine on Adelphia. No other problems with any of the OTA HD stations or the others on Adelphia (5-1 and 8-1).


ajstan - in Strongsville you should be able to get WEAO/50-1. PBS sister station WNEO/46-1 is out of Alliance, and doesn't make it even up to Akron, at least on my antenna. 50-1 is in Copley Township in Summit County and should at least get up to Strongsville...


----------



## Inundated

 http://www.reuters.com/financeNewsAr...toryID=6297121 


"Bankrupt cable operator Adelphia Communications Corp., which is mulling a sale of its assets, on Tuesday said it will accept offers for any or all of seven groups of its cable subscribers as part of an auction launched this week."


The article quotes an analyst, who says, "Time Warner could most easily absorb Adelphia's Northern New England/Eastern New York piece and its subscribers in Cleveland and the Greater Ohio Valley".


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PPS_
> *FYI. Yesterday, I heard the traffic guy on WOIO say that they are working on their antenna and don't be surprised if the digital signal gets messed up.*



Thx for the info PPS, good to know they're keeping the antenna in good shape.


----------



## hookbill

I noticed this morning that INHD2 was not showing on my set. I saw they had "Miracle on 34th St." as the current show and I tuned in for a second to see what it looked like. 3:00 pm and they still arn't back on. Anybody in the area with Adelphia also see this problem?


----------



## egman

The article quotes an analyst, who says, "Time Warner could most easily absorb Adelphia's Northern New England/Eastern New York piece and its subscribers in Cleveland and the Greater Ohio Valley".


My experience w/ Time Warner Akron was outstanding, although that was before HD. I was one of the first on RoadRunner and had a great experience with them.


----------



## Inundated

Also on Adelphia, and also missing INHD2. All other HD channels are fine, including INHD1 and all the local HD stations.


Sometimes I wonder if Adelphia could run a train wreck.


egman - Time Warner Akron/Canton is about 10 times better than Adelphia. At least. I'm not just saying that because a relative of mine works for them.







Or just because Adelphia stinks to high heaven.


The articles I'm reading expect the bids to be completed by the end of the year. If Adelphia accepts the bids - there's some speculation that they won't get as much money out of it because there'll only be one likely bidder in some areas - maybe we'll be absorbed into TWC NEO early next year...


If I'm looking at the TWC NEO channel lineup correctly, here's the HD pluses/minuses:


Both have the HD feeds from 3/5/8. TWC NEO adds WNEO/WEAO 45/49 (DT 46/50).


Adelphia has, TWC doesn't: ESPNHD (!!), Starz HD and Cinemax HD.


TWC has, Adelphia doesn't: TNTHD, Discovery HD...and apparently both east and west feeds of HBO HD and Showtime HD.


I would expect the stragglers, like ESPNHD, to be on TWC by the time any acquisition is completed. Like Adelphia, TWC NEO does not have the HD feed from either of Raycom's local outlets, WOIO/19 and WUAB/43.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Also on Adelphia, and also missing INHD2. All other HD channels are fine, including INHD1 and all the local HD stations.
> 
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if Adelphia could run a train wreck.
> 
> 
> egman - Time Warner Akron/Canton is about 10 times better than Adelphia. At least. I'm not just saying that because a relative of mine works for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or just because Adelphia stinks to high heaven.
> 
> 
> The articles I'm reading expect the bids to be completed by the end of the year. If Adelphia accepts the bids - there's some speculation that they won't get as much money out of it because there'll only be one likely bidder in some areas - maybe we'll be absorbed into TWC NEO early next year...
> 
> 
> If I'm looking at the TWC NEO channel lineup correctly, here's the HD pluses/minuses:
> 
> 
> Both have the HD feeds from 3/5/8. TWC NEO adds WNEO/WEAO 45/49 (DT 46/50).
> 
> 
> Adelphia has, TWC doesn't: ESPNHD (!!), Starz HD and Cinemax HD.
> 
> 
> TWC has, Adelphia doesn't: TNTHD, Discovery HD...and apparently both east and west feeds of HBO HD and Showtime HD.
> 
> 
> I would expect the stragglers, like ESPNHD, to be on TWC by the time any acquisition is completed. Like Adelphia, TWC NEO does not have the HD feed from either of Raycom's local outlets, WOIO/19 and WUAB/43.*



FYI...TWC has added ESPN, whether or not it is being broadcast at this time I do not know. The thread is in the programing section: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=444992


----------



## StanZ

Hallelujah!


Great new series "Veronica Mars".


Wonderful picture quality. Great production design. And a show with great reviews!


----------



## oachalon

adrian i am from mentor but i get my hd from comcast. Anyhow my buddy lives in concord and he has voom and he gets channel 3 and 19 perfect from his location and i think hes using a decent size radio shack antenna on the top of his house. Not sure the exact model.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *FYI...TWC has added ESPN, whether or not it is being broadcast at this time I do not know. The thread is in the programing section: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=444992 *



And somewhere in the thread, someone from this area posts that ESPN HD is now on TWC NEO's channel 559.


----------



## jmatotek

Just got my 34xbr960 yesterday. I'm in Lorain. I picked up channel 19 yesterday with a signal strength of 78. I have an old radio shack antenna in my attic. I picked it up on 10.1*10.1*. Channel 3 came in and out in the 50's.

John


----------



## jmatotek

The above post didn't come out right. I am getting channel 19 on 10.1., with a signal strength 0f 78.

John


----------



## SKoprowski

Do any of you guys know if TWC in the Canton area uses QAM for their HDTV? I am wondering if I can subscribe to their basic package and use a QAM tuner and get HDTV. I currently just use TWC for their broadband service- I wonder if I can pick up QAM over my current broadband connection?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## hookbill

For the second day in a row INHD2 is not on. The bot I talked to at Adelphia said they wern't aware of the problem and I'm the only one in my area that has called about it. She said the more people call the faster it will be taken care of.


I explained that this just isn't my set, that others have called. I told her I don't expect to pay for something I'm not getting. I asked her when it would be fixed and she could not give me an answer.


So anybody else in my area, please call Adelphia. I hate calling them too but it looks like we may have to to get INHD2 back on.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *So anybody else in my area, please call Adelphia. I hate calling them too but it looks like we may have to to get INHD2 back on.*



Just called them and put in my complaint. The guy, like your rep, said there wasn't any listing of any problems in his system, but did say something vague about hearing of an HD channel outage. Weird.


I mentioned to him that it wasn't just me, and that someone probably 25 miles away from me on the same Adelphia system also had the outage.


I hope this helps get it up the flagpole...


Signed,

Counting The Days Till Time Warner Buys It And Takes Over


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Just called them and put in my complaint. The guy, like your rep, said there wasn't any listing of any problems in his system, but did say something vague about hearing of an HD channel outage. Weird.
> 
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Counting The Days Till Time Warner Buys It And Takes Over*



I've never met a cable company I like. Why would TWC be different?


The again I've never met a cable company quite as bad as Adelphia.


God, I miss DTV.


"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" - Pete Townsend


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Counting The Days Till Time Warner Buys It And Takes Over*



Don't get your hopes up. That Reuters article clearly suggested that the Cleveland market wasn't the most desirable of the parcels that Adelphia is "auctioning". It also pointed out that Time Warner was the only company in a position to bid on this one. That would lead me to think that TWC won't bid any more than necessary (why should they if no one else is bidding?), so Adelphia may just decide to keep the Cleveland subscribers.


Of course, it's also possible that TWC or Comcast could just offer to buy the entire company. Actually, they'd probably join forces on such a purchase, with Comcast coming away holding what used to be Adelphia, and TWC "buying back" the chunk of itself that Comcast now holds. (Comcast owns 15% of TWC at the moment.) It's hard to say how a move like that would be viewed by federal regulators.


I'm not convinced that Comcast or TWC would be a big improvement anyway. Less competition means rates tend to go up.


I know you're bummed about INHD2 being missing in action, but frankly I haven't even noticed that it wasn't there. In the month or so that Adelphia has carried it, I can't think of a single program there that I've been willing to watch.


Anyway, be careful what you wish for - you might just get it!


----------



## hookbill

Tech calls: "I'm running behind and if I don't have to come out to your house I'd appreciate it. Can you tell me exactly what is going on?"


Me: "Yes I'm not getting INHD2. It went out yesterday and it hasn't been on since."


Tech: "OK, and what channel is that."


Me: "Channel 775."


Tech: "Are you getting any other HD channels?"


Me: "Yes all of them are working fine."


Tech: "What channel is that that isn't working?"


Me: "INHD2"


Tech: "OK, but I need to know the name of the channel."


Me: "It's INHD2."


Tech: "That's fine sir but I need to know what the name of the channel is."


Me: "That is the name of the channel. This is starting to sound like Who's on First. It's INHD2!"


TECH: "Well, that's a really dumb name for a channel."


He attempts then to have me reboot the box, which I've already done.


I tell him that Inundated is about 30 miles away and he isn't getting it either.


He says he will contact his dispatcher and call me back.


WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS!


Geeze, these guys don't know crap.


Edit: They just called back. They said they are having trouble with that station and have no idea when it is coming back.


Customer service doesn't know this?


This is one sorry company.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *They said they are having trouble with that station and have no idea when it is coming back.
> 
> 
> Customer service doesn't know this? This is one sorry company.*



If they were getting calls about it, they'd probably know the answer. Apparently no one else has bothered calling them. Have you considered calling INHD and asking them about the problem? Maybe they can make something happen from the other end. It's hard to guess which company is actually causing the outage.


----------



## hookbill

I'll try that tomorrow morning if it still isn't working.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Of course, it's also possible that TWC or Comcast could just offer to buy the entire company. Actually, they'd probably join forces on such a purchase, with Comcast coming away holding what used to be Adelphia, and TWC "buying back" the chunk of itself that Comcast now holds. (Comcast owns 15% of TWC at the moment.) It's hard to say how a move like that would be viewed by federal regulators.*



Supposedly, TWC is interested in such a move, which is called a "reverse merger". This would mean that Adelphia would basically still exist, but become Time Warner Cable...taking over from the inside











> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced that Comcast or TWC would be a big improvement anyway. Less competition means rates tend to go up.*


*
*That's another thing. I haven't compared the rates yet, but it'd be harder for the rates to go up any farther from the vacuum Adelphia is placing directly into my wallet. My favorite rate increase was the most recent one, which resulted in me losing a half-dozen stations on the digital side. Why? Because they were placed into a tier THAT COULD ONLY BE BOUGHT IF YOU BOUGHT A PREMIUM CHANNEL. I can't get those non-premium stations (like ESPNEWS, etc.) unless I buy HBO or Showtime or some such! There's no way Adelphia will sell me the new digital tier unless I ante up for a pay channel. That just doesn't make sense.


Unless TWC is doing even MORE such moves, it couldn't possibly be worse. My monthly bill is something on the order of $115 a month (basic/digital plus Powerlink) - BEFORE all this HD stuff I added.



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> I know you're bummed about INHD2 being missing in action, but frankly I haven't even noticed that it wasn't there. In the month or so that Adelphia has carried it, I can't think of a single program there that I've been willing to watch.*


*
*We've only got what, 8 non-pay HD channels? Why would anyone want to lose one of them?











> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> Anyway, be careful what you wish for - you might just get it!*


*
*Adelphia, in my personal experience, has been the most inept cable company in the nation. Their analog signal quality stinks (and used to be worse here before someone uncovered a cable run with a staple in the middle of it!). Their customer service is snarky and insulting...today's rep being the first one that hasn't been for me, at least based in Cleveland. They couldn't operate a 2 car parade. ANYTHING would be better!


For what it's worth, TWC is generally well-regarded in the Akron/Canton area (see message posted above for one example). I'm welcoming them with open arms should they end up with the local scraps of Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *If they were getting calls about it, they'd probably know the answer. Apparently no one else has bothered calling them. Have you considered calling INHD and asking them about the problem? Maybe they can make something happen from the other end. It's hard to guess which company is actually causing the outage.*



I'm not entirely sure why a cable customer should have to call a *network*. This should be resolved at the local level. Heck, Adelphia should have monitoring of its own system to fix this stuff before people call. I don't care who's "causing the outage"...the ball is in Adelphia's court. THEY are who I pay for 8 HD channels...not INHD.


----------



## bubblegum1647

I live in Medina, Oh. I have Armstrong cable Hd package. Does anyone else in Medina having problems with Fox channel 108. where it is breaking up every 20 30 seconds. with lines going through it or freeze. I have had cable company out 2 times now. they have switch boxes, added a booster and still have problem. Armstrong said it the TV station problem I should call them. I do not know why Armstrong does not call. Does anyone know a number and who I should contact? Thanks. All other HD channels are ok. Some times channel 5 will break up but not a lot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bubblegum1647_
> *I live in Medina, Oh. I have Armstrong cable Hd package. Does anyone else in Medina having problems with Fox channel 108. where it is breaking up every 20 30 seconds. with lines going through it or freeze. I have had cable company out 2 times now. they have switch boxes, added a booster and still have problem. Armstrong said it the TV station problem I should call them. I do not know why Armstrong does not call. Does anyone know a number and who I should contact? Thanks. All other HD channels are ok. Some times channel 5 will break up but not a lot.*



I don't have Armstorng Cable, I have Adelphia but I do not have a problem with FOX HD breaking up in the mannor you describe.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated
> 
> I'm not entirely sure why a cable customer should have to call a *network*. This should be resolved at the local level. Heck, Adelphia should have monitoring of its own system to fix this stuff before people call. I don't care who's "causing the outage"...the ball is in Adelphia's court. THEY are who I pay for 8 HD channels...not INHD.
> _


_


Couldn't agree more. And it still isn't working this morning. What kind of answers are these?


Mike, did anyone call you yesterday from Adelphia?_


----------



## mobgre

Same deal here with Adelphia in North Olmsted. No INHD2 for the 3rd day now. Called them yesterday and they were clueless. Guess we will just have to wait until it "magically" reappears.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mobgre_
> *Same deal here with Adelphia in North Olmsted. No INHD2 for the 3rd day now. Called them yesterday and they were clueless. Guess we will just have to wait until it "magically" reappears.*



Maybe not. I'm going into the Macedonia office today. Nothing like raising hell in person.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

You know, I was gonna say you guys are a little hardcore to raise hell over losing one channel. But Adelphia would raise hell over losing one dollar per month if you chose not to pay the bill.


You guys should calculate what it costs for the HD package, divide it by the number of channels, multiply that by X/30. Where X equals the number of days that you dont have the channel. Thats your dollar amount that you paid for that channel when you didnt receive it. And I wouldnt pay it if I were you guys.


Sorry about the Math for those of you who may be mathematically challenged.


----------



## mobgre

Its not really the $ that matters. Its the point that this is obviously a wide spread problem and Adelphia has no clue. Besides INHD2 is a very sharp looking channel that I want back. Hardcore? Yup!


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *You know, I was gonna say you guys are a little hardcore to raise hell over losing one channel. But Adelphia would raise hell over losing one dollar per month if you chose not to pay the bill.
> 
> 
> You guys should calculate what it costs for the HD package, divide it by the number of channels, multiply that by X/30. Where X equals the number of days that you dont have the channel. Thats your dollar amount that you paid for that channel when you didnt receive it. And I wouldnt pay it if I were you guys.
> 
> 
> Sorry about the Math for those of you who may be mathematically challenged.*



For those of us not math challenged, I would add that this method would be correct only for months which contain 30 days.


----------



## Inundated

I've watched INHD from time to time (both 1 and 2)...it isn't my favorite-sit-there-and-watch-24/7 channel, but it's the principle of the thing. And yes, maybe I will calculate how much of the HD Plus Tier cost is dedicated to the one channel and tell Adelphia I'll deduct accordingly for the outage










It is indeed frustrating to call a cable company, and have them act like they have no idea what's going on. SOMEONE at Adelphia - assuming the calls are routed to Cleveland, which I think they are during the day - should be able to turn on a TV set and see this! It's not like they don't have the technology! Heck, you can watch the HD box on a standard SD set (S-Video and composite), so it's not like they have to go out and buy a HD set for the offices.


Why should *I* have to continually bug them over a missing channel? It's THEIR service. I'm paying for it, they should provide it! It's like I bought a dozen eggs, and there are only 11 in the carton.


BTW, I DID drop a line to INHD on their Web site late last night. I don't know if it'll do any good.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe_
> *You know, I was gonna say you guys are a little hardcore to raise hell over losing one channel. But Adelphia would raise hell over losing one dollar per month if you chose not to pay the bill.
> 
> 
> You guys should calculate what it costs for the HD package, divide it by the number of channels, multiply that by X/30. Where X equals the number of days that you dont have the channel. Thats your dollar amount that you paid for that channel when you didnt receive it. And I wouldnt pay it if I were you guys.
> 
> 
> Sorry about the Math for those of you who may be mathematically challenged.*



Actually they already have credited me 2.00....It's not the point of the money. Here's the deal.


1. Nobody at their customer service number is even aware of the problem.


2. On a wide spread outage they made me sit home all day long waiting on a service tech who called me, didn't have the knowledge to know what channels they have on their line up, and then called me back to tell me what I already knew: It was an outage...and did not give an eta as to when it would be fixed.


You see if the CSR I called had simply said yes sir, we are aware of the problem and we are working on it I wouldn't be making such a fuss.


Plus I'm returning one of their digital boxes that I don't use.


----------



## hookbill

INHD2 is back on. When I went to the Macedonia office they too had no idea it wasn't working. Receptionist at the office tried it right in front of me and got the same thing....nothing.


Then she made a phone call. I went about my business, and I just tried it now and it was back on.


I sincerely believe it would have been off for a while had I not gone down there in person.


----------



## Inundated

hookbill - on behalf of all of Adelphia's customers, thanks for getting INHD2 back up!










Yep, it's back up here, too. It's pretty sad when an individual customer, after multiple calls, has to go DOWN TO ONE OF ADELPHIA'S OFFICES to get a missing channel fixed!


----------



## mobgre

Good job! I cannot check mine for a couple of hours till I get home but I got a feeling you fixed it for all of us. Thanks.


----------



## kramerboy

I'm just now researching HDTV here in Wayne County (Wooster/Orrville). I searched for anyone else posting from this area in this thread but did not find anything.


I'm just interested in knowing what quality of antenna reception is possible down here. Antennaweb.org states that I would need a Large Directional antenna with a pre amp to receive these broadcasts. We are about 36 miles south of the Cleveland towers. Compass orientation shows that all towers are between 9 and 37 degrees from my location.


Is there anyone else on this board that can verify if they can get a good signal down here? Armstrong Cable does provide a digital/HDTV tier to their service here. However, I'm a DirecTv customer and I'm not very interested in going back to cable at this point. If I can get these stations to come in with good results via an antenna solution, that's the way I'd like to go.


The sales drones at the Wooster Best Buy would love to sell me a TV, but none of them can verify that an antenna solution would work for me.


Any help would be appreciated!



Kramerboy


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mobgre_
> *Good job! I cannot check mine for a couple of hours till I get home but I got a feeling you fixed it for all of us. Thanks.*



Don't be so sure it's fixed.


Well, INHD2 is back...but now Adelphia has managed to lose:


WKYCHD

WEWSHD

WJWHD

HDNET

HDMOVIES


along with other channels (including some non-HD stuff) that I don't get. My running theory is that the hamsters got tired of the wheel, and needed a break.


This time, at least, Adelphia is aware of it, and says it's their problem at the headend. They wouldn't provide an estimate of how long, but say when the service comes back...I should call and tell them and they can credit me how many days (!!!) are out.


Of course, it'd be too much for them to do this automatically, and they'll continue to charge the normal rate to anyone who doesn't call in. (Adelphia is far from alone in doing this...AOL is notorious for "we'll only credit people who call".)


I take back what I said before...Adelphia couldn't run a ONE car parade.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by kramerboy_
> *I'm just now researching HDTV here in Wayne County (Wooster/Orrville). I searched for anyone else posting from this area in this thread but did not find anything.*



I think we have a regular in here from Shelby, which is even farther out from Cleveland than you are. But...I can't remember if he is getting Cleveland DT stations or not. My gut tells me that 35-ish miles from Parma is doable, but with a high outdoor antenna and pre-amp.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Don't be so sure it's fixed.
> 
> 
> Well, INHD2 is back...but now Adelphia has managed to lose:
> 
> 
> WKYCHD
> 
> WEWSHD
> 
> WJWHD
> 
> HDNET
> 
> HDMOVIES
> 
> 
> along with other channels (including some non-HD stuff) that I don't get. My running theory is that the hamsters got tired of the wheel, and needed a break.
> 
> 
> This time, at least, Adelphia is aware of it, and says it's their problem at the headend. They wouldn't provide an estimate of how long, but say when the service comes back...I should call and tell them and they can credit me how many days (!!!) are out.
> 
> 
> I take back what I said before...Adelphia couldn't run a ONE car parade.*













What???? You called them and they KNEW they have a problem and ADMITTED to it?...OMG...gasp...may need paramendics


----------



## hookbill

Oh...you can add HBO-HD to the list now too.


----------



## DBarros

My oh my...I now don't get NBC-HD, ABC-HD, FOX-HD, HDNET, or HDMovies. Only ESPN-HD, INHD, and INHD2.


This, after INHD2 had been out for the past 2 days.


It's really getting to be ridiculous for Adelphia.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> 2. On a wide spread outage they made me sit home all day long waiting on a service tech who called me, didn't have the knowledge to know what channels they have on their line up, and then called me back to tell me what I already knew: It was an outage...and did not give an eta as to when it would be fixed.
> 
> 
> You see if the CSR I called had simply said yes sir, we are aware of the problem and we are working on it I wouldn't be making such a fuss.



Well then you need to go Cosmo Kramer on your cable company and teach them a lesson.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DBarros_
> *My oh my...I now don't get NBC-HD, ABC-HD, FOX-HD, HDNET, or HDMovies. Only ESPN-HD, INHD, and INHD2.
> 
> 
> This, after INHD2 had been out for the past 2 days.
> 
> 
> It's really getting to be ridiculous for Adelphia.*



Not that this will make you feel any better but at least they are now acknowledging the outtage. What's spooky about the thing is that they are saying the outage is "everywhere". Also she read it off her screen as "High Definition channels will not be available tonight."


----------



## intermod

Lemme' get this Straight,


And you guys pay these people ?


"May be its the Needle"


Dan


----------



## Inundated

I've been very close to dumping Adelphia entirely and going with a dish...but reception for both is not in the bag where I am, so I may be stuck... if I pulled in HD OTA channels, I've got to get a better antenna to get all of 'em, without having to move the antenna and my body into contortions indoors.


I've had cable service at one location or another in 3 different states for about 20 years on my own, and many years before that growing up...and this is the absolute worst. I've NEVER seen 6 whole channels go toes up, while the rest of the system was unaffected! I don't even know how that's possible. And indeed, what they told hookbill is correct... the HD channels that are out, are still out as of 2 AM. No HD (channels that are affected, at least) tonight.


----------



## gnalmij

I'm with Intermod -- vote with your wallet and take your money elsewhere. I had Adelphia here in University Heights and tried its HD service over the winter, but Adelphia couldn't get enough bandwidth to my location -- when they turned on the few HD channels I lost most of my digital channels above 100. And PQ on a few of the local channels, such as FOX8, went to hell.

As a long-time Tivo addict, I switched to Directv with the HDTivo, and I'm very happy I did. Having dual tuners with integrated OTA is terrific. I feel for Inundated -- if you can't get local HD OTA, your choices are limited. I have a medium directional in my attic and it works fine. If you can get HD via OTA, stop complaining about Adelphia and get something that works.

As an aside, hooking up my attic antenna this Spring saved me several bucks because I learned that my laundry chute created a direct and open chimney from the attic to the basement. I was wondering for years why the basement was always so cold in the winter. It made it very easy to drop a line down to my TV with very little drilling. I then insulated the openings and hope to cut my gas bill, as well as enjoy HDTV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gnalmij_
> *I'm with Intermod -- vote with your wallet and take your money elsewhere. I had Adelphia here in University Heights and tried its HD service over the winter, but Adelphia couldn't get enough bandwidth to my location -- when they turned on the few HD channels I lost most of my digital channels above 100. And PQ on a few of the local channels, such as FOX8, went to hell.
> *



I couldn't agree more with you. And if I could I would have never got Adelphia in the first place. I tried to have DTV installed but I cannot get a signal (too many trees). So I'm stuck with Adelphia.....However....


I'm going to reinvestigate DTV. I'm going to try again to have them do an install. They guy that came out to do my install never considered my front yard, he just said no it can't be there, kept wanting to find a place on the roof. I was desperate for tv of anykind because reception is very poor in my area. If I can, I'll try and have DTV come out again. I'm fed up with Adelphia.


----------



## jtscherne

It's not looking good. Adelphia took off the list of HD football games from Channel 1; I wonder if that means that FOXHD won't be back on for tomorrow? (or ABC for Monday??)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *It's not looking good. Adelphia took off the list of HD football games from Channel 1; I wonder if that means that FOXHD won't be back on for tomorrow? (or ABC for Monday??)*



I laughed at that this morning when I saw that. Them taking it off is not a good sign at all.


----------



## Inundated

I have a fairly good view of the southern sky, although there are trees...I'm thinking I could probably get a DirecTV signal somewhere. I'm going to have my TV installer guy try to get a signal off my deck somehow. That's not my biggest problem...the biggest problem is getting an antenna facing northwest to get a usable signal out of all the OTA DT stations. My indoor solutions get me all the local UHF-based DT stations, usually get me WOIO/19-1, and I have to contort the antenna and hope to find the right spot to get WKYC/3-1/etc.


I also do not have an attic, but rather, a high loft. I'm tempted to buy an ugly large antenna and see if it gets anything even high up here, assuming I can find a way to mount it. But that's not a long-term solution, unless I want this thing sitting in here!


So, decisions, decisions. If it was clearly cut and dried, I'd gladly tell Adelphia where to stick their...well, you know.


BTW, WOIO/19-1 is nowhere to be found this afternoon. Is anyone else getting it OTA? I'm getting NO signal out of it whatsoever, not even one bouncing up and down. Everybody else is up, it looks like.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I laughed at that this morning when I saw that. Them taking it off is not a good sign at all.*



I'm fortunate this week, football wise...even if WOIO is off, I can get WJW/8-1 and WEWS/5-1 on my OTA receiver. Oh, and at least right now, ESPNHD is still working on Adelphia!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *BTW, WOIO/19-1 is nowhere to be found this afternoon. Is anyone else getting it OTA? I'm getting NO signal out of it whatsoever, not even one bouncing up and down. Everybody else is up, it looks like.*



WOIO-DT is off the air. Not getting it OTA or on WOW cable.


-- Paul


----------



## Inundated

Well, they must have just turned the thing back on, as I'm getting WOIO-DT now, 10 minutes after the last post. OTA.


----------



## Shark73

WOIO is coming in strong for me OTA.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *WOIO is coming in strong for me OTA.*



It apparently just came back on (see the previous two messages). Is WOIO upgrading its DT signal power wise?


Interesting, as I watch CBS's college football halftime show (in upconverted SD)...they just ran a cilp of Vanderbilt/Navy, downconverted from 1080i because it was broadcast on HDNet. Which, of course, I can't get on my addled Adelphia cable feed this afternoon!


----------



## paule123

Yeah, WOIO-DT is back on again OTA and via WOW cable and this ALA/ARK game looks good in HD. But it was out most of the afternoon because I was looking for football games around noon-1pm and they were out of commission. Makes weekend antenna tuning a pain in the ass, don't it??


----------



## Inundated

Funny thing: WOIO keeps bouncing in and out of HD on this game. They're back out of HD now. I wonder why? The signal is fine.


----------



## Inundated

My mistake in an earlier message:


This weekend's Browns/Giants game IS on WOIO (CBS). It's a CBS game because the Browns (AFC) are the road team. It is on CBS's HD schedule.


NEXT week's game, against the Redskins, is home and on FOX, since the NFC Redskins will be the road team at Cleveland Browns Stadium.


One would hope WOIO could get their HD and DT woes figured out before 1 PM tomorrow...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Oh, and at least right now, ESPNHD is still working on Adelphia!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Knock on wood...and go RAIDERS.


----------



## hookbill

If you call Adelphia Customer Service you now get a message that their HD is out for today (Sunday) and will not be on until Monday.


So what do you think happened? It broke down or they were doing something Friday afternoon and, gee, time to go home, will fix the rest of it on Monday?


If it's not on by Tuesday I'll go to the office in Macedonia for further explanation.


And please, everybody, make sure you get credited for the outage. I know it's only a couple of dollars, but it's the principal of the thing.


----------



## hookbill

I got an email from Adelphia this morning:


Rita Georgian [[email protected]]


We experienced an equipment failure on Friday Afternoon, Terayon (the manufactor of this equipment) was suppose to ship us a replacement overnight for arrival on Saturday Morning. The proper box was not checked by Terayon, they shipped overnight next business day instead of overnight..Part should arrive this morning.




The problem will be fixed shortly after the part arrives.




We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you.








Rita Georgian


Executive Assistant


Adelphia Communications


216-575-8016 ext. 3348


----------



## SKoprowski

Anyone here use their own QAM receivers with Northeast Ohio TWC? I got the new Samsung HDTV 451 receiver yesterday and found only 2 HDTV signals- channel 5 and 8 on 104.1 and 104.2 I also found about 15 SD channels including HBO and some Pay Per view. Anyone have a list of channels? I'll try the OTA performance of the Samsung maybe tonight or tomorrow.


Scott


----------



## Inundated

For what it's worth, all the HD channels are back on Adelphia. Thanks for posting the E-Mail!


----------



## intermod

Jerrold SharpShooter ???


My Son and I went to the Cleveland Hamfest (flea market for radio junk) at

the Berea Fairgrounds Sunday morning. I was looking for some air dielectric cable like 9913. No joy on the 9913 but did bump into a guy that had some

used but clean Jerrold SharpShooter UHF Yagi's. These things are 80" booms

with 14 directors, the Driven Element plus a 7 element corner reflector.


It has an unussual configuration for the feed point, 2 sets of screws for the Balun/Feedline. Cant find any docs on the web, looks like Jerrold is OOB.

Do all BalUns go from 75ohm to 300 ohm? Is it a safe assumption that the

75 ohm feedpoint is the one right on the Driven Element? The second set of screws connect to what looks to me like Delta match type thing about 4"

back from the D.E. I'm thinking that would be the 300 ohm Balanced tap.


Maybe I should just take it down to Adelphia and ask them.... OOOUCH

thanks


Dan


----------



## ParsonsBri

I guess I should consider myself very lucky. I was both a DirecTv and Adelphia customer. I tired to be patient with Adelphia, but the HD offering is weak and no CBS is a drag. One of my original reasons for trying Adelphia was that I cant get a decent OTA signal on WKYC. Luckily, I was "grandfathered in" on the national network feeds from DirecTV. So when they added the HD feeds as well, I got those. The recent decision to add NBC's national HD feeds combined with Adelphia's abysmal performance closed the deal for me. I dumped Adelphia over the weekend and could not be happier. Even if any of the locals have signal issues, I can pick them up from the national feeds. I know this is not true for everyone unless you get waivers, but I am sure glad I have this option.

I just invested in an HD Tivo and it works great. I was able to combine OTA with the DirecTv grid and recorded 2 games in HD yesterday, including the disgusting performance of the Browns.


Anyway, I just felt like spewing this out this afternoon after so much frustration with Adelphia.


Looking forward to MNF in HD on DirecTv this evening.


Later,


BP


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> 
> *I guess I should consider myself very lucky. I was both a DirecTv and Adelphia customer. I tired to be patient with Adelphia, but the HD offering is weak and no CBS is a drag. One of my original reasons for trying Adelphia was that I cant get a decent OTA signal on WKYC. Luckily, I was "grandfathered in" on the national network feeds from DirecTV. So when they added the HD feeds as well, I got those. The recent decision to add NBC's national HD feeds combined with Adelphia's abysmal performance closed the deal for me. I dumped Adelphia over the weekend and could not be happier. Even if any of the locals have signal issues, I can pick them up from the national feeds. I know this is not true for everyone unless you get waivers, but I am sure glad I have this option.
> 
> I just invested in an HD Tivo and it works great. I was able to combine OTA with the DirecTv grid and recorded 2 games in HD yesterday, including the disgusting performance of the Browns.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I just felt like spewing this out this afternoon after so much frustration with Adelphia.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to MNF in HD on DirecTv this evening.
> *


*


You are lucky. Try being me. I came from Kentucky with two D-TiVo's only to find out I can't get a signal from Direct TV where I live. Yes, I know all the suggestions and believe me nothing works.


But beyond that even if I did get a signal from DTV I would not pay a grand for their HD TiVo. I don't feel it's worth it. And despite the fact that you do get all 3 networks, Adelphia still has more HD....Although I would trade some of that just for CBS.


One other thing. Good luck with the D-TiVo HD box. I'm sure it will work great but from reading in the TiVo Community Forum there seems to be alot of issues with that box. Well, I guess it really doesn't matter, whatever issues you may have it will still outshine the SA 8000.*


----------



## jtscherne

My complaint with Adelphia this weekend was not the technical issue necessarily; it was there inability to even tell anyone about the problem! When they pulled the HD football schedule off of channel one, why didn't they notify people then?


----------



## hookbill

I've made 3 attempts to contact Adelphia today to get a credit for the outage. After the system puts you on hold a few minutes you hear a couple of beats, the music changes, and then your told "due to heavy volume we cannot connect you with an agent at this time" and then it disconnects....reminding you that customer service is available 24 hours.










I called early this morning, noon and around 6:00 pm.


I wonder if they have me in a que for possible disgrunteled customers who may request credit?


What am I thinking? That be way to high tech for these folks.


----------



## jwt0001

One of Adelphia's call centers is in Orlando and I bet it wasn't open today. The last time there was a hurricane in the area, they mentioned it on the announcement.


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *But beyond that even if I did get a signal from DTV I would not pay a grand for their HD TiVo. I don't feel it's worth it. And despite the fact that you do get all 3 networks, Adelphia still has more HD....Although I would trade some of that just for CBS.
> 
> 
> One other thing. Good luck with the D-TiVo HD box. I'm sure it will work great but from reading in the TiVo Community Forum there seems to be alot of issues with that box. Well, I guess it really doesn't matter, whatever issues you may have it will still outshine the SA 8000.*



Not that it matters to you since you are unable to receive D* (what a bummer by the way, I feel your pain), but I paid way less than $1k. Just south of $700. I know there has been some bitching about the box on Tivo Community. I have read much of it and it none of it bothered me. I love it. Works way better than the SA 8000. Not exacty a tough box to beat though.


I have no ideal how you can say that Adelphia has more HD than D*. The lineup is virtually the same plus I get NFL Sunday ticket with 6 Fox and 3 CBS HD games per week as well as the east and west feeds for CBS and NBC and HD Pay per view. Fox and TNT HD are right around the corner.

TNT should be up any day now.


Combine all of that with the fact that Adelphia could be the worst cable company in the country, I have no regrets.


----------



## paule123

MNF not HD ???


I just got home from work 12:10AM to watch the end of MNF - the game is SD -- did WEWS shut off HD at midnight or something?


----------



## Inundated

I saw that, too...most of the game was in HD. I don't know why they switched to an SD upconvert, but it was around midnight or so... I also don't know if this was a local or national problem, as I haven't checked the Programming threads yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *
> 
> I have no ideal how you can say that Adelphia has more HD than D*. The lineup is virtually the same plus I get NFL Sunday ticket with 6 Fox and 3 CBS HD games per week as well as the east and west feeds for CBS and NBC and HD Pay per view. Fox and TNT HD are right around the corner.
> 
> TNT should be up any day now.
> 
> 
> Combine all of that with the fact that Adelphia could be the worst cable company in the country, I have no regrets.*



To be honest the last time I really looked at D* lineup Adelphia did have them beat. That was a couple of months ago however and I realize D* has added quite a few.


You know how I really feel however. Give me a clean sat signal and I'd gladly give Adelphia their walking papers....for cable tv.


Their DSL, however is excellent.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *
> 
> I have no ideal how you can say that Adelphia has more HD than D*. The lineup is virtually the same plus I get NFL Sunday ticket with 6 Fox and 3 CBS HD games per week as well as the east and west feeds for CBS and NBC and HD Pay per view. Fox and TNT HD are right around the corner.
> 
> TNT should be up any day now.
> 
> 
> Combine all of that with the fact that Adelphia could be the worst cable company in the country, I have no regrets.*



To be honest the last time I really looked at D* lineup Adelphia did have them beat. That was a couple of months ago however and I realize D* has added quite a few.


I'd even consider giving up HD for a while just to get clear digital signals. If I could get D* I'd fire Adelphia...for cable tv. I'd keep their internet service.


I'm glad you were able to save a couple of hundred on the HD box....still too expensive as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## wfwiles

Anyone using the COMCAST DVR? I had one installed replacing the HD box last night. Bad mistake I think. It is very limited on flexibility. You cant record a program while watching a recorded program or watch one channel while watching another. It looks like the only usable feature is being able to pause a channel. All this with the fact they don't seen to be able to load my config in the box. I can't get Arny of the digital programs oh HBO, the only premium channel I have. Local HD channels work fine if they would only get a contract with WOIO. I spent most of the day today trying to get it straightened out. Now they are going to send a tech out tomorrow BETWEEN 8AM and 7PM. What happened to customer service? I worked in field service for 40 years and wouldn't have survived one with this kind of shoddy service. All this and I now have to teach my wife to use a new remote. It has taken four years to teach her to use the TIVO remote. I think it is about time to go to satellite.


----------



## jtscherne

Watched Lost on ABC tonight. I have to say that this is one of the best looking non-sports HD programs I've ever seen on regular networks. If you haven't seen it, they're re-running the first two episodes on Saturday. The overall PQ was spectacular tonight through Adelphia (I assume OTA was just as good!)


----------



## SteveC

I agree with your assessment of the PQ on Lost. It was jaw dropping. Also, thanks for the heads up on the replays. I knew I wouldn't be home in time to see it last night so I set my HTPC to record it. When I got home and went to watch it I discovered that I ran out of hard drive space a little over half way into the show. I figured I was out of luck until I saw your post. Talk about perfect timing.

Steve


----------



## Rbuchina

wfwiles,


I've had a Comcast HD DVR for about a month now. I live in Mentor and I have had DISH Network satellite for around 8 years. I made the change to Comcast because my wife needed the high speed cable modem for work so I had them install the HD receiver just to take a look and compare to Dish Network. The Dish does a better job with non HD content but I could not see a difference with HD contenet. Comcast has some drop outs on the HD channels but there local channel 3 comes in much better than my OTA reception for channel 3. I have the OTA for WOIO and I figure its only a matter of time before Comcast get WOIO HD. I will be staying with Comcast and dropping the Dish for now. The Dish buy back deal was too sweet to pass up and Dish has been promising the 921 HD recorder for years now.


I have never had a DVR before so I'm impressed with the ability to finally record an HD broadcast and view it later. I am disappointed in the lack of ability to jump forward to a scene in a recording. The fast forward is nowhere near fast enough. When I see a movie I want to record I have been going into the Info feature for the movie and looking up future showings. I then set a recording for late night or during the day while I'm at work. This works for movie channels but your stuck with network TV since they only show once. Ask if they have a dual tuner box. I would think there should be one available. You can also get a second receiver and use one for viewing and one for recording. This would really confuse your wife with two remotes.


Ray


----------



## wfwiles

Confused with two remotes! She has nine right now









I have have had a standalone TIVO for about five years or more. I got it when it first came out. It only has a single tuner also but I didn't need it to watch live TV. That is why I am disappointed with the DVR. Finding the program to record is difficuly. The DVR doesn't have many of the TIVO features. The Direct TV TIVO has two tuners and the ability to record one channel while watching another. Also it looks like I can't watch a recorded program while recording another. The hangup with the TIVO is that I can only record the analog programs without using the cable box.

Well I am stuck home for a third day waiting on COMCAST. Tuesday I had to stay home for their required phone call that never came. Changeout was scheduled for 4-7pm. They showed up at about 8pm. Said the box would be downloaded shortly. Discovered later couldn't get anything but basic and local HD channels. Called and they said they would load box and would be 15 minutes or so. Time was about11pm so I went to bed. Wed morning still no digital or HBO channels. Spent all day on phone calls. Finally they decided to send a tech out. Schedule for sometime between 8am and 7pm. DUH..... So I am stuck home another day waiting. Isn't Customer Service today great?????????.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by wfwiles_
> *Schedule for sometime between 8am and 7pm. DUH..... So I am stuck home another day waiting. Isn't Customer Service today great?????????.*



I am surprised any cable company still has this all-day wait routine. Wide Open West has like three time windows, 8am-12pm, 12pm - 4pm, 4pm - 6pm, something like that. They have an automated attendant that calls your home the day before and reminds you of your appointment time. I ordered WOW for a friend, did it all on their website without talking to a person, and the install went off without a hitch. The only complaint my friend had was that the tech showed up about a half-hour *early* and she wasn't "ready" yet. You know the hair and makeup must be perfect for the cable man .


They work Saturdays as well (I assume most cable companies now days do..) They usually can send someone out the very next day, and I've not had to wait more than two days.


----------



## hookbill

Adelphia has done it to me. BTW, wf what brand is your DVR?


----------



## electrocutioner

Hi All,


I Contacted WOIO concerning the absence of HD signals today, September 30th. Here is the official response:


Thank you for your e-mail. We are in the process of replacing our

analog antenna. During the process, one of the panels on our digital

antenna had to be removed temporarily. This occurred roughly 2 weeks

ago. Installation should take probably another 5-7 days then they will

be able to put the digital panel back on.


With regard to a Browns game this weekend, FOX has the 1PM game.

Although CBS is scheduled to have a doubleheader, we are prohibited by

NFL regulations from airing any game against the 1PM game because we're

the home market for the Browns. So - we only have a 4PM game on Sunday.



Just as an FYI...only two of the BROWNS games have been broadcast in

high-definition so far this season. HD broadcasts of weekly NFL games

are a network call. Each week, affiliates are notified by CBS as to

which games will be telecast in high-def format. This week's

Jets/Dolphins game on WOIO will be broadcast in HD.


Sincerely,

Programming Dept.

WOIO/WUAB


----------



## jtscherne

The browns will definitely be in HD this Sunday, but on FOX.


----------



## SKoprowski

OT- anyone know if the Steelers/Browns game will be high def on Oct 10th in the Cleveland area?


----------



## Shark73

No.....from CBS's website.


Sun., Oct. 10 - Week 5

Game Time

The NFL Today - Pre-game Show 12:00-1:00 p.m.

Oakland @ Indianapolis 1:00 p.m. (available in HDTV)

Miami @ New England 1:00 p.m. (available in HDTV)

Cleveland @ Pittsburgh 1:00 p.m.

Jacksonville @ San Diego 4:00 p.m.

Buffalo @ N.Y. Jets 4:00 p.m. (available in HDTV)


----------



## ironmanix

I'm at the end of a one-month self-initiated trial of Comcast. I'm in Mentor and I've been a DirectTVHD customer for about a year (DirectTV customer for over 5 years).


Here's the setup:


57" Hitachi HD Ultravision (Integrated HD tuner) in family room

5 other televisions scattered throughout the house with at least one that will be upgraded to HD in the near future.


Like I said - current D* subscriber. I got the flyer for the dish buy-back from Comcast and decided to give it a try. Here are a couple of notes on the experience so far:


1. Comcast price is good - probably $35/month cheaper when you factor in Internet.


2. Comcast installation experience was a nightmare. To the point that it almost never even got installed. Finally after much haggling, communicationg, hassle, it was installed (three separate trips, btw).


3. Comcast DVR is almost unusable, imo. TIVO interface is light years ahead of Comcast. IMO, Comcast should have waited to introduce DVR until it had a usable interface. It is so bad that I'd prefer to not have it than to pay even a paltry amount for it.


4. Comcast HD is ok. Not substantially better than DirectTv. Frankly with an OTA in the attic I get everything but NBC so the only real draw to Comcast besides the price is HD on WKYC. I'd rather just put my antenna on the roof.


5. Comcast non-digital channels are unwatchable. Horrible picture. Waste of a television.


6. If Comcast tells you they want your old sat equipment as part of the buy back just tell them no. I did and they didn't take it. I can cancel at any time no harm done.


7. I tried to get DirectTV to budge on the price a bit telling them I had cable installed and was trying to make it an easier decision. They offered a $50 credit for my OTA antenna and $10 a month worth of 2nd premium channel. They wanted a year committment with that, though. I declined.


8. In the end, I think I'm going to cancel my cable service, have them give me the credit and the $10 discount, cancel my second premium and pick up a cheaper DSL line and stick with D*.


I can go into more detail if anybody is interested but it just came down to PQ. This is like having a decision between Kerry and Bush - D* isn't spectacular but I might not choose Comcast if they were the only provider available.


----------



## Bryan 93 ?

Ironmanix: I also live in Mentor and just got Comcast cable. My question is concerning the quality of OTA HDTV in Mentor. Is local programming via OTA HDTV anywhere near the quality of local programming via cable in HDTV? I live near Mentor high school, and am not blocked by any larger houses or buildings. If I do leave Comcast I would have a roof mounted antenna, but only on a ranch home.


Thanks,

Bryan


----------



## ironmanix




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bryan 93 ?_
> *Ironmanix: I also live in Mentor and just got Comcast cable. My question is concerning the quality of OTA HDTV in Mentor. Is local programming via OTA HDTV anywhere near the quality of local programming via cable in HDTV? I live near Mentor high school, and am not blocked by any larger houses or buildings. If I do leave Comcast I would have a roof mounted antenna, but only on a ranch home.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bryan*



For me, anyway - local HD OTA is as good as or better then ANY source I've seen.


I have a radio shack antenna in my attic (with very little tweaking) and I get 5-1 (ABC) very clearly most of the time. I got WOIO for Browns/Cowboys but haven't really seen it since.


I'm 90% sure that putting the antenna on the roof will get me every channel very strong (I've heard that the attic cuts about 50% of the signal).


I'm up by Lake Catholic so I'm only about a mile or two closer than you to the towers. I suspect that the single-story home won't make a difference - you'll get at least some channels.


I'd almost try rabbit ears first if I were you.


----------



## egman

I know this is a little off subject for this thread, but since it is for Cleveland, I think it is fair. Anyone out there ever had an ISF calibration done and if so, do you have a recommendation for a good local ISF trained person?


----------



## Rijax

I had my Sammy DLP ISF calibrated over a year ago by a local guy. I can't recommend him because he seems to have disappeared. At least I can't reach him via the phone number I used last year.


However!







I've been in touch with Gregg Loewen , a nationally know ISF calibrator, and I've gotten on his November Ohio tour. I think his rates are reasonable (but not cheap), and he has a good reputation. Check various forums. Click on the "Contact Greg Loewen" link at the end of the tour list, tell him I sent you, explain what you want, and ask what he can do for you. He responded to me very quickly. Hope it works out. Lemme know.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by electrocutioner_
> *I Contacted WOIO concerning the absence of HD signals today, September 30th. Here is the official response:*



As someone else noted, Browns/Redskins is on FOX 8 this week (NFC team is the road team).


I'm not sure about anyone else, but I'm having no problems picking up WOIO-DT via OTA tonight. But, if they had a direct feed to Adelphia cable, the tower work would not affect cable viewers. Oops! That's right, they're still not on Adelphia cable!


----------



## Rbuchina

ironmanix, Bryan 93,


I live in Mentor between 306 and Lost Nation Road. I Just switched to Comcast from E*. There was no problem with my installation. My wife had trouble finding a CSR on the phone that understood cable modem issues and HDTV options though. She finally got a CSR (Tony) on the phone on a Saturday morning that knew all the answers. I pulled RG6 lines in the walls the week before the installation so all the installer needed to do was check the 8 year unused cable from the street box and put a splitter in the basement where I had all the lines coming together.


I'm a bit disappointed with the standard definition channels compared to Dish Networks PQ but I find I do not watch much that is not HD anymore. The PVR box has a DVI output that I'm using into my Sammy DLP that may help the PQ some. This is the first DVI component I have ever connected to the TV so this may be why the PQ was adequate for me to switch to Comcast.


I have a large OTA antenna on the roof. I still have an unwatchable picture on digital WKYC. Sometimes if conditions are just right I will get D3 ok. I will keep the Dish 6000 box for the OTA. Even if I don't subscribe to Dish The OTA will still work as long as I keep a dish pointed to the satellite. The OTA PQ is the best signal quality one can expect. No compression of signal on OTA. You still have signal strength issues and until WKYC turns up the power we will never have good reception in our corner of the world. I've looked up the FCC signal strength allotments of the various Cleveland digital locals and digital WKYC and WOIO are each less than 10KW. All the other digital locals are allocated greater than 50KW. If anyone in the northwestern Lake county area finds an antenna that works please let me know.


Ray


----------



## Shark73

I can't recommend anyone local but if you have a Mits RPTV Craig Miller is one of the best. Website below.

http://www.mghometheater.com/page/page/886917.htm


----------



## wfwiles

Ray, I am just a little west of you and don't have that much trouble with WKYC. The signal strength is just slightly lower than the others except WOIO is the weakest. Maybe that will be fixed when they finish the antenna work. I do have a 13 foot Radio Shack antenna and rotor on the roof. I do get some dropout at times but I am not sure it isn't reflections from Cleveland or Aircraft from Hopkins as we are shooting across both. Comcast replaced my cable from the street yesterday which improved my cable strength but didn't fix the problem with no digital channels. They finally went and got another DVR box which solved the problems. I only use the OTA box for WOIO now or if the HD channels are bad on the cable. I don't see much difference between OTA and cable HD pictures. By the way the OTA channels are compressed the same as the cable. The channel bandwidth should be the same for both.


Bill


----------



## Rbuchina

Bill,

Thanks for the reply. WKYC has always been my weakest signal. WOIO is my second worse signal but it seems to have gotten better over the last couple weeks. Maybe the football season had something to do with it. I would like to see WKYC eliminate 2-02 and 2-03 to see if this would help the reception of 2-01. I just hope Comcast gets WOIO soon so I will not need to worry about that hardware on the roof.


Ray


----------



## handsworth









Good News again. I have learned from my sources that Adelphia (Cleveland area) will be launching WVIZ HD and Discovery HD on or near Nov. 29th. WVIZ will be in the locals (free), and Discovery in the HD Plus tier. No news on CBS but based on the length of time necessary to get equipment and notifications out, they better have something done in time for Superbowl.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Superbowl is on Fox this year, but CBS would be nice for you guys to have for at least the NFL playoffs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good News again. I have learned from my sources that Adelphia (Cleveland area) will be launching WVIZ HD and Discovery HD on or near Nov. 29th. WVIZ will be in the locals (free), and Discovery in the HD Plus tier. No news on CBS but based on the length of time necessary to get equipment and notifications out, they better have something done in time for Superbowl.*



This is good news! Now I gotta look at my channel lineup to see what the heck WVIZ is but more hd news is good news!


I noticed that when they added FOX it was on 9/1. I would bet they will launch at the beginning of the month, so maybe 12/1? That would be around the same time.


----------



## Russell Bower

Cox cable has just added WVIZ PBS HD.


We are waiting for Fox football.


----------



## Inundated

It'll be good to have WVIZ. I will then have two PBS's, as I get WEAO/50-1-2 via OTA. I suspect WVIZ will show up on 725 at some point in the next couple of months.


Is there ANYONE within the range of WVIZ's small temporary tower atop their Brookpark Road facility, and what are they doing with it now? I am assuming that it's technical issues that are delaying WVIZ from not going on right now.


45/49-46/50 are running the 24/7 PBS HD feed alongside an SD feed of the WNEO/WEAO analog programming.


Russell - does Cox not have WJW/8? Adelphia added it a couple of months or so ago.


----------



## intermod

WVIZ-HD ch 26

Inundated asked,


"Is there ANYONE within the range of WVIZ's small temporary tower atop their Brookpark Road facility, and what are they doing with it now?"


They are running the network feed. They come in pretty good here. even off the back of my roof mounted Yagi. BTW, the temp tower is ground

mounted. The antenna just clears the roof line of the 1 story shack.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...464&fullpage=1 


Dan


----------



## hookbill

Ok, I know this has nothing to do with this thread, but......


HOW BOUT DEM DODGERS!!!!!!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I am assuming that it's technical issues that are delaying WVIZ from not going on right now.*



AFAIK, it's legal issues that have stalled WVIZ-DT for almost two years now. Viacom won't lease the extra needed tower space to WVIZ for the digital antenna. Apparently WVIZ leases their existing analog antenna space from Viacom, but Viacom won't play nice and give them any more. If you look back in this thread some months ago, someone found an FCC filing describing the dispute.


-- Paul


----------



## Russell Bower

Inundated

Cox does not currently offer Fox 8 dt.


----------



## Chip Z

I am going to get HDTV thru Comcast (Avon Lake). I have a couple questions.


Is the DVR (Motorola 6208) worthwhile? I have a TIVO. I don't expect it to be that good, but is it useful at all? Gonna be hooking it up to a projector, so I probably would only be recording HD. I think it only holds about 8 hours of HD so seems like a waste. A couple people have commented, but wondering if there is any consensus.


Is the DVI output active on the Comcast boxes in Cleveland? I am hoping to hook it up to the projector with a DVI cable instead of component.


----------



## Rbuchina

Chip Z,


I have Comcast and the 6208 on the other side of town in Mentor. I've never had a TiVo so for me its great.


It seems you can get around 9 hours of HDTV recorded. About three times that in standard definition. There is a fire wire port on the box that people have been connecting to PCs and dumping the data stream to a PCs hard drive. Look at the HDTV recorders section.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...?s=&forumid=42 


I'm using the DVI connection to my Sammy DLP. I've read some threads over the last month or so since I've had my 6208 that said the color seems washed out via the DVI connections. Others have tried both and claim the component was better. I have not tried the component yet. My color seems fine.


Enjoy


Ray


----------



## Chip Z

Ray,


Thanks for the quick reply. Comcast is coming on 10/23 to install the 6208. Can't wait. This will get me motivated to have the PJ (Sanyo Z2) up and running by then.


I'll probably be recording mostly HD stuff. I hear SD is pretty rough on a 92" screen. Even though the 6208 is apparently more limited, I can't go back to watching tv on "regular time."


Thinking about incorporating HTPC in future so thanks for the headsup.


I guess I'll just try both component and DVI and compare. Was hoping to use DVI because I already am going to need a component switcher for Xbox, ps2, dvd. Guess I could get 4 to 1 switch. I'm also not sure what I'm going to do with all these audio signals.


CWZ


----------



## hookbill

Chip, as an ex TiVo owner myself with a different DVR (SA 8000 HD) I can tell you don't get too comfortable with these inferior units. They can miss conflicts and not record anything. Double check everything you set up. MY SA 8000 has 20 hrs HD time and 40 hours SD. I think it's a piece of crap next to my D-TiVo the only reason I kept it was it does have dual tuner capability. That and the fact I can't get a satellite signal.


----------



## cristo28

I don't think the SA 8000 HD is "a piece of crap" as it was put, I think it does exactly what it was designed to do and that is record HD and SD and be a duel tuner for something significantly less then $1000.00. I personally could never justify the cost difference for the name and the extra feature of which some of them drove me nuts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *I don't think the SA 8000 HD is "a piece of crap" as it was put, I think it does exactly what it was designed to do and that is record HD and SD and be a duel tuner for something significantly less then $1000.00. I personally could never justify the cost difference for the name and the extra feature of which some of them drove me nuts.*



I couldn't agree with you more about the price between this and a TiVo HD. However if you owned a TiVo and you go to the SA 8000 HD it's like going from a Escalade to a Yugo. TiVo is so much better in so many ways, and I'm not just talking about the 1G unit, I'm talking about the one's you can pick up for 50 bucks on E-Bay. My 8000 HD does miss recording programs for reasons unknown, the old SA 8000 (non HD) couldn't recognize conflicts and I'm not certain this one does all the time either. Not to mention TiVo's better program guides, wish list, much better search features.


For 7 bucks a month, it's ok. But next to TiVo it's how I described it.


----------



## Shark73

Does anyone know when CBS will be back on the air?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Better be by Sunday.


----------



## intermod

The Band was enhanced today! good day to do a channel scan!


Was able to catch WKBD-DT UPN DETROIT for a while this afternoon. They

transmit on ch. 14 and PSIP maps it to 50.1. At 112 miles from my place this is

the most distant digital sig. I have ever picked up.


I still cant get WEWS-DT on ch 15 that is 0.58 miles from the house. I dont care except on Monday nights.


Dan


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *I still cant get WEWS-DT on ch 15 that is 0.58 miles from the house. I dont care except on Monday nights.*



Have you ever figured out why? Heck, they're so close you could almost run a cable










I wonder if WEWS-DT is directional over your head or something.


BTW, for what it's worth, I am getting WOIO-DT fine right now.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Have you ever figured out why? Heck, they're so close you could almost run a cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if WEWS-DT is directional over your head or something.
> 
> 
> BTW, for what it's worth, I am getting WOIO-DT fine right now.*




Well it must be multipath issues, On Monday nights I just plug in set of

Rabbit ears and it works fine Its just a PITA. I did get a long yagi a few weeks ago and I can peak the signal strength at several directions. I was hoping

the narrow pattern of the "Sharpshooter" would help a bit, and it has, just not

to the extent I expected... I have some nice new coax to install, perhaps the shield on my old stuff is leaking. I also got a 10' mast to get the antenna up away from my chimney, I'm sure thats distorting the pattern. I like to do this stuff one step at a time .


" I wonder if WEWS-DT is directional over your head or something."


I dont know, Could be. As I recall the antennas have an E plane and an H plane, I cant recall which is the vertical pattern but the FCC sites just seem to show the polar plot anyway. I have a couple ideas, I will post results if they make any sense..


Dan


----------



## paule123

WUAB-DT added to Wide Open West Cleveland HD lineup today. Hoping for PBSHD soon since I see the PBSHD logo has been inserted in the TV ad for WOW HD services.


So that brings the WOW Cleveland HD lineup total to:

ABC

CBS

NBC

FOX

UPN

ESPNHD *

DiscoveryHD *

HDNet *

HDNet Movies *


* HD tier, additional $9.99/mo.


Premiums:

HBOHD

Max HD

StarzHD (free to WOW subscribers)


----------



## Inundated

"WOW". Wow.










Too bad I can't get WOW down here...


----------



## Valnar

Is the Browns game today in HD? TitanTV doesn't think so, so I'm checking.


Robert


----------



## Valnar

Is the Browns game today in HD? TitanTV doesn't think so, so I'm checking.


Robert


----------



## paule123

Browns not HD this week or next week.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl 


Since CBS only has the ability to do 3 HD games per Sunday, the lousy teams/smaller markets are not going to get the HD coverage.


(I'm not implying that ours is a lousy team or a small market, I'm talking about Pittsburgh of course!







)


Edit: HD comes back for the Browns on the Oct. 24 Browns/Eagles game (Fox), then a bye week, then Nov. 7 Browns/Ravens on ESPNHD Sunday Night Football. After that, we shall see if the CBS HD gods deem we are worthy...


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Fox HD is weak compared to CBS, at least with Football. But even for SD, that Browns game looked insanely bad. I found myself switching to the Giants game quite a bit. I am glad I am going next week, and dont have to worry about crappy CBS SD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *(I'm not implying that ours is a lousy team or a small market, I'm talking about Pittsburgh of course!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )*



No comment after today's game. ::shrug::


The CBS SD didn't look THAT awful to me today. The SD feed of NBC's Notre Dame vs. Whoever college game on Saturday was so washed out, even on WKYC-DT, that I couldn't bear to watch it.


I don't see the Browns being in HD on CBS the rest of the season unless they really turn this thing around. But Browns-Steelers would have been a good game to do...


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> 
> I don't see the Browns being in HD on CBS the rest of the season unless they really turn this thing around. But Browns-Steelers would have been a good game to do...*



thought so too... I was shocked they didn't pick this game for HD since they're such strong rivals and all the heated interest. A few years ago at a cross country meet in Pittsburg, while driving thru town everyone on our bus yelled out the window, "Go Browns"..!!! We got some dirty looks....


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Well Philly will be in HD on Fox. 10-24

Baltimore on ESPN. 11-7

Miami on ESPN. 12-26.


We all know that, I am gonna guess the following may also be HD:


Jets at Cleveland on 11-21

Patriots at Cleveland on 12-6


But it all depends on game time and if CBS has the doubleheader or if Fox does. 4 pm games usually have a better chance of HD because there are fewer of them and they reach a bigger audience. All of the Browns games however are at 1 pm.


----------



## bassguitarman

As bad as the Browns are playing I'm glad they arent HD. Then I can TIVO them and watch the game in about 10 minutes . Yesterday I switched to NASCAR early in second quarter.


----------



## Tom in OH

Are all Browns games in this area "blacked out" on NFL ST from DirecTv?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *Are all Browns games in this area "blacked out" on NFL ST from DirecTv?*



Yes


----------



## Tom in OH

thx Jim, I've always wondered about that.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *thx Jim, I've always wondered about that.*



Anytime Tom!


The black outs are not usually a problem since most of the CLE market can get locals OTA. It's a much bigger problem in other areas of the county where OTA reception is harder to get.


BTW, this year both the HD and SD channels are blacked out for the ST. Last year CBS gave a blanket waiver so the "1" HD game was available to the entire country via Sunday Ticket.


----------



## Shark73

Looks like WOIO (CBS) is out again tonight.....anyone else having trouble?


thx,


Jim


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Looks like WOIO (CBS) is out again tonight.....anyone else having trouble?
> *



No hint of a signal here, either.


----------



## ted_b

I don;t know about WOIO-DT (cuz my new Wow cable Explorer8000HD box is off...cable operator wants to run a test....I'm not getting local Fox WJW-DT). Anybody else?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

WJW is fine. No WOIO.


----------



## ted_b

I have neither, so am confirming no WOIO. No Fox is pissing me off, though....No MLB playoffs (although I can simply go to analog...channel 8). TOmorrow is a different story, LCS (Sox/Yanks) is HD!


----------



## ted_b

Called WJW and finally got a human voice in new dept. He wouldn't put me through to anyone in Engineering, and said he was unaware of whether 31 was up or not. When I commented that it was quite unusual for a person in his position to NOT KNOW if his station was BROADCASTING, he said..."Fox 8 is up, that's all I care about. If that HD stuff isn't working on 31 it's not a big deal. Call your cable company" WOW.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

yea ted i am watchin baseball on wjw dt right now, so its probably your setup.


but i'll agree, the fox 8 people dont give a hoot about their station. ive had difficulty with them before "flipping the switch"


----------



## Shark73

I'm getting WJW-DT channel 31 via OTA and Adelphia cable. I would call the cable company back as it seems the problem is with the cable company not Fox.


----------



## ted_b

Thanks. They're comin out tomorrow. Aslso put a call into John Cifani (WJW engineering) telling him WowHD is having problems (and so is his news dept.....







)


----------



## ted_b

Well, Fox is back on WOWHD...as is WOIO-DT. And FOx MLB is looking almost HD! Great picture. C;oseups look 90% of HD. Maybe WOWHD was passing analog SD signal for the other games (although NFL looked HD and fine). Anyway, back in business. Weird.


ted_b


----------



## paule123

I haven't seen tonight's Braves game on the home plasma (still at the office), but so far all the playoff games have been SD on ESPN or Fox Widescreen 480p. So tonight I'll bet you are seeing 480p widescreen.


Fox is showing the HD logo on the promos for the ALCS games starting tomorrow, so I assume ALCS and NLCS will be HD from tomorrow on out as well as the World Series.


And please, Fox, lose this Josh Lewin (sp?) announcer guy. Diahhrea of the mouth. Can't shutup. Seems to have very little depth of knowledge. Repeats the same garbage about the Braves choking every year at least 30 times per broadcast. I assume if it's not on the teleprompter, he doesn't know much. Maybe Fox can hire the ESPN Sunday night baseball crew for the rest of the telecasts??


----------



## ted_b

Paul,

Yes, it's clear now that WOW HD in Westlake was sending out a less than stellar picture before tonight. This FOX-Widescreen game reminds me of other Fox widescreen sports broadcasts from last year (when I was watching via OTA) and NONE of the non-HD stuff this year (via WOW). I realize that only the LCS's and the WS is in HD, but the difference from last night to tonight was unbelievable.


Ted_B


----------



## Inundated

It may just be here, but I'm not getting a lockable signal on WOIO-DT tonight. I'm guessing they are doing work except on weekends due to the Browns (even though Sunday's game was not in HD, they were still up on Sunday).


----------



## vinyal

NO WO1O here either tonite.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *It may just be here, but I'm not getting a lockable signal on WOIO-DT tonight.*



I'm not sure what time you were having trouble, but WOIO was fine for CSI:Miami from 10 to 11PM. It was rather annoying, though, because they didn't remember to feed us the HD signal until almost halfway through the show. But there was no problem getting the digital broadcast.


I did note an occasional glitch, but no more than any other night.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ted_b_
> *Well, Fox is back on WOWHD...as is WOIO-DT. And FOx MLB is looking almost HD! Great picture. C;oseups look 90% of HD. Maybe WOWHD was passing analog SD signal for the other games (although NFL looked HD and fine). Anyway, back in business. Weird.
> 
> 
> ted_b*



HD Broadcasting on FOX for baseball should start today. What you were watching last night was FOX widescreen. Go Sox!!!


----------



## ted_b

hookbill,

Thanks. But as per the posts above, we are well aware that the LCS and WS are the only FOX HD broadcasts. The issue was around why WOWHD cable was finally sending a FOX widescreen picture last night (and a gorgeous one at that) when up until then (meaning all other LDS games) they were sending an SD-quality signal. When I saw the difference (oh, and FOX-DT was off the air on WOW cable until about 9pm, probably figuring out how to send the correct feed) I was floored, and another thread over in HD programming was commenting on the same issue, i.e last night's gorgeous non-HD broadcast. It brought back memories of watching FOX widescreen football and baseball last year when I watched HD OTA (been watching local HD OTA since 1999; this is the first week I've watched HD via digital cable). I forgot how good it looked (compared to what WOW cable was sending previously). It ain't HD, but it's a heck of a lot better than those hideous SD upconverts. Anyway, look forward to the LCS's beginning tonight.


Oh, and go......Sox? I guess, better than rooting for the damn Yankees.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *It may just be here, but I'm not getting a lockable signal on WOIO-DT tonight. I'm guessing they are doing work except on weekends due to the Browns (even though Sunday's game was not in HD, they were still up on Sunday).*



WOIO came back on later in the evening. Not sure what's going on over there but I hope it ends soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ted_b_
> *hookbill,
> 
> Thanks. But as per the posts above, we are well aware that the LCS and WS are the only FOX HD broadcasts. The issue was around why WOWHD cable was finally sending a FOX widescreen picture last night (and a gorgeous one at that) when up until then (meaning all other LDS games) they were sending an SD-quality signal. When I saw the difference (oh, and FOX-DT was off the air on WOW cable until about 9pm, probably figuring out how to send the correct feed) I was floored, and another thread over in HD programming was commenting on the same issue, i.e last night's gorgeous non-HD broadcast. It brought back memories of watching FOX widescreen football and baseball last year when I watched HD OTA (been watching local HD OTA since 1999; this is the first week I've watched HD via digital cable). I forgot how good it looked (compared to what WOW cable was sending previously). It ain't HD, but it's a heck of a lot better than those hideous SD upconverts. Anyway, look forward to the LCS's beginning tonight.
> 
> 
> Oh, and go......Sox? I guess, better than rooting for the damn Yankees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That's interesting that WOW wasn't sending the widescreen. Adelphia, the worst cable in the world was, but I think Adelphia does not filter their transmissions. I wonder why WOW would?


----------



## electrocutioner

Hi All,


I have not received WOIO-DT OTA for over two weeks now.


I receive everything else, including PBS @ 85% which has a 10KW rig.


I am 7.5 Miles from xmitter.


----------



## Inundated

I'm not getting a single bit of signal out of WOIO-DT right now, at 5:05 PM Tuesday. I suspect they're trying to get the work done A) outside of prime time hours and B) outside of weekends.


----------



## ted_b

I'm getting WOIO-DT fine tonight, checking NCIS currently before I switch to FOX baseball (although I need to tweak my pj cuz my new Explorer 8000HD cable HD dvr/stb shows many of the channels, like CBS and NBC, a bit too dark and contrasty for me).


ted_b


----------



## Shark73

WOIO came on just before 8pm.


----------



## SteveC

Any of you guys know whats going on with channel 20 in Youngstown? They are the digital channel for the NBC affiliate(analog 21). I often watch it instead of channel 2 because I pick it up better and they don't distort their analog upconvert like channel 2 does. What's strange is that they are multicasting and on 20.2 they have a billboard That says: Coming soon, The WB. Are the WB and NBC affiliate over there owned by the same company? You wouldn't think it would be legal to share the same channel(if thats what they are intending to do). Anybody have any inside info?

Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Any of you guys know whats going on with channel 20 in Youngstown? They are the digital channel for the NBC affiliate(analog 21). I often watch it instead of channel 2 because I pick it up better and they don't distort their analog upconvert like channel 2 does. What's strange is that they are multicasting and on 20.2 they have a billboard That says: Coming soon, The WB. Are the WB and NBC affiliate over there owned by the same company? You wouldn't think it would be legal to share the same channel(if thats what they are intending to do). Anybody have any inside info?
> 
> Steve*



I'm guessing but they are probably going to switch to the WB. The reason I say this is that's pretty similar to what happened to a UPN station in Cincinnati, channel 64 that changed to WB.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Any of you guys know whats going on with channel 20 in Youngstown? They are the digital channel for the NBC affiliate(analog 21). I often watch it instead of channel 2 because I pick it up better and they don't distort their analog upconvert like channel 2 does. What's strange is that they are multicasting and on 20.2 they have a billboard That says: Coming soon, The WB. Are the WB and NBC affiliate over there owned by the same company? You wouldn't think it would be legal to share the same channel(if thats what they are intending to do). Anybody have any inside info?
> 
> Steve*



We are not "switching" to WB, but adding a WB affiliate to the Youngstown market using a subchannel of our digital signal. We will offer the full WB prime time lineup and WB kids programming plus many syndicated programs not available to the other stations in our market. Launch date is November 1.


----------



## SteveC

Robert,

Thanks for the reply. I think this raises another question. What happens if on a given night, both the WB and NBC are sending you shows in HD? Won't you have to reduce the bitrate(thus reducing the PQ) for either one or both to fit in the allowable bandwidth of one channel? How do you plan to handle that situation? Also, when do you think you will have 20.2 up and running with the WB? Smallville is one of my favorite shows and I would love to see it in HD. Nobody seems to know when WBNX will go digital. Thanks for being part of this forum. Your comments are much appreciated.

Steve


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Robert, can you boost your signal to 1.21 jigawatts so I can pick it up in Westlake? Thanks man.


----------



## Inundated

Unfortunately, I can't get WFMJ-DT 20 on this side of Akron with my anemic indoor antenna. And I have no good shot in the direction of Youngstown, anyway... but I wish I could!


I'm just guessing here, but I assume the "WBCB"/WB feed on DT 20 will be SD only.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Robert,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I think this raises another question. What happens if on a given night, both the WB and NBC are sending you shows in HD? Won't you have to reduce the bitrate(thus reducing the PQ) for either one or both to fit in the allowable bandwidth of one channel? How do you plan to handle that situation? Also, when do you think you will have 20.2 up and running with the WB? Smallville is one of my favorite shows and I would love to see it in HD. Nobody seems to know when WBNX will go digital. Thanks for being part of this forum. Your comments are much appreciated.
> 
> Steve*



Unfortunately, you can't put 2 HD streams together. Our WB will only be SD over the air.


----------



## SteveC

Robert,

If that is the case, have you made the decision yet on the format? Since I have a native 4:3 HDTV it would be great if you could preserve the native aspect ratio like WKYC does with their channel 2.2. If instead you choose to upconvert to a 16:9 format then the 4:3 image is both letterboxed AND windowboxed(black bars on all sides) on my 4:3 display. I'm then forced to do a "zoom" which significantly degrades the image quality. If you upconvert to a 4:3 format it displays perfectly on my screen and I believe there is no difference either way for the folks with 16:9 HDTVs. Hopefully you are able go the 4:3 route. I would like to hear your thoughts on this issue.

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Robert,
> 
> If that is the case, have you made the decision yet on the format? Since I have a native 4:3 HDTV it would be great if you could preserve the native aspect ratio like WKYC does with their channel 2.2. If instead you choose to upconvert to a 16:9 format then the 4:3 image is both letterboxed AND windowboxed(black bars on all sides) on my 4:3 display. I'm then forced to do a "zoom" which significantly degrades the image quality. If you upconvert to a 4:3 format it displays perfectly on my screen and I believe there is no difference either way for the folks with 16:9 HDTVs. Hopefully you are able go the 4:3 route. I would like to hear your thoughts on this issue.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve*



It will be 4:3 480I. Those that want to can stretch it to fill thier screen on 16x9 sets.


----------



## SteveC

Robert,

Thanks and good luck on your roll-out Nov. 1. I'm looking forward to it.

Steve


----------



## Inundated

SteveC - what part of Akron are you in, and what are you using to get WFMJ-DT 20?


I wonder how many viewers they have over here. I'm probably not in any position to get a good signal out of them, but I keep trying. I used to work in that market, and I'd like to watch their local news if I can.


----------



## SteveC

I'm actually down in Springfield township which is on the southeast side of Akron. I have an antenna on the roof with a rotor.

Steve


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *I'm actually down in Springfield township which is on the southeast side of Akron. I have an antenna on the roof with a rotor.*



That explains it. You're not only somewhat closer to WFMJ-DT 20 than I am, you've got an antenna on the roof!











The only reason I had hope...in the past I've occasionally been able to get a snowy signal out of WFMJ's main analog transmitter. But I can't duplicate that here in my current location (northwest Akron).


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *It will be 4:3 480I. Those that want to can stretch it to fill thier screen on 16x9 sets.*



I like that you have never stretched your channel. Channel 3 in Cleveland looks very bad, all stretched out and at a lower bit-rate due to multi-casting. I hope you are not going to use too much bandwidth for this WB channel. It really takes the whole bandwidth to show a good looking HDTV show. If HDTV on your channel starts looking like Channel 3 in Cleveland, I wont have any channel to watch HD NBC on anymore.


Will you ever be moving the WB to it's own channel?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenNEO_
> *I like that you have never stretched your channel. Channel 3 in Cleveland looks very bad, all stretched out and at a lower bit-rate due to multi-casting. I hope you are not going to use too much bandwidth for this WB channel. It really takes the whole bandwidth to show a good looking HDTV show. If HDTV on your channel starts looking like Channel 3 in Cleveland, I wont have any channel to watch HD NBC on anymore.
> 
> 
> Will you ever be moving the WB to it's own channel?*



Anticipating the WB channel since day one, I've been running the HD channel at the same bit rate it is now with the subchannel turned on. So, if you've liked our HD up until now, it shouldn't change.


There literally are no other channels to go to in NE Ohio. We've made deals with just about every cable company in our market to carry it. Perhaps one of these years after NTSC goes away and the TV spectrum gets compacted there will be some openings for more channels.

With luck, I'll be retired by then.....


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TV21CHIEF_
> *Anticipating the WB channel since day one, I've been running the HD channel at the same bit rate it is now with the subchannel turned on. So, if you've liked our HD up until now, it shouldn't change.
> *



Oh thanks for the info. Your channel always looks better than Cleveland's. Some of the Cleveland channels just don't get it with the stretching of the channel. If I want stretched, I'll stretch the analog channel.


I wondered why during the fast moving camera shots at the beginning of the Tonight Show, or during the Olympic diving (and other sports) I would see so much pixalization. Even on your station. I suppose even with full bandwidth you would get some of that.


How many megabits does the HD channel get? Are you allowed to tell? If I had an HD card in my computer (or a better receiver) I could probably figure it out.


Thanks.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenNEO_
> *
> 
> I wondered why during the fast moving camera shots at the beginning of the Tonight Show, or during the Olympic diving (and other sports) I would see so much pixalization. Even on your station. I suppose even with full bandwidth you would get some of that.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.*




HDTV compresses 1500 megabits into 19 megabits. It frankly amazes me it works as well as it does. Fast moving images tax that to the max and you see the artifacts.


----------



## blipszyc

Not sure if this is the right thread or not, but I've been an OTA HD person for some time now. I'll be moving to Solon in the next 60 days and was cotemplating whether to keep DirectTV or move to cable. Right now it looks like my only option is Adelphia from the cable side. I'm leaning toward Adelphia due to their 'paks' with broadband, but also because their HD boxes are $7/mo vs. $1000/one time, and I'll need at least 3.


Thoughts? Reccomendations? Warnings?


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by blipszyc_
> *Not sure if this is the right thread or not, but I've been an OTA HD person for some time now. I'll be moving to Solon in the next 60 days and was cotemplating whether to keep DirectTV or move to cable. Right now it looks like my only option is Adelphia from the cable side. I'm leaning toward Adelphia due to their 'paks' with broadband, but also because their HD boxes are $7/mo vs. $1000/one time, and I'll need at least 3.
> 
> 
> Thoughts? Reccomendations? Warnings?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



Unless you cannot receive a signal at your new place in Solon go with Direct TV. I have Adelphia and I live in Bainbridge Twp. Adelphia is the worst cable company in the world. Their customer service is a complete joke. Having had DTV in the past their digital signal is much better on the locals which Adelphia delivers in analog with the exception of 3, 5, and 8.


Their 7.00 HD box is also a DVR but it is a joke compared to TiVo. Then again TiVo cost 1g so unless your looking for a DVR I'd stay OTA with DTV and stay as far away from Adelphia as possible.


One last thing. Rumour has it that Adelphia is up for sale and the best bet to buy them is Time Warner. I don't know what will happen then. Hopefully things will get better.


Oh, and as far as internet goes I really can't say anything bad about that. I have their inexpensive broadband and I think it is better then DSL.


----------



## frogster

Has anyone had wowway's HDTV service? Just the local stations are an extra $15/month.


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frogster_
> *Has anyone had wowway's HDTV service? Just the local stations are an extra $15/month.*



I have WOW and I like everything about them I've tried so far - analog cable, cable modem Internet service, premiums. But I do think their HD service is way too expensive, so I'm sticking with OTA for that.


Sorry, not a direct answer to your question, but like you, I think $15 is too much for my locals in HD.


Robert


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *I have WOW and I like everything about them I've tried so far - analog cable, cable modem Internet service, premiums. But I do think their HD service is way too expensive, so I'm sticking with OTA for that.
> 
> 
> Sorry, not a direct answer to your question, but like you, I think $15 is too much for my locals in HD.
> 
> 
> Robert*



To get espnHD, discoveryHD, and some other channels, it's an additional $9.99. I guess I'll be getting an antenna this weekend.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frogster_
> *Has anyone had wowway's HDTV service? Just the local stations are an extra $15/month.*



I have had WOW since they started HD service and have been very happy with it. Actually the HD locals are "free", you pay $6.99/mo for the SA3250HD box (or $12.99 for the SA8000HD DVR (or maybe it's $14.99/mo)


The HD Pak is $9.99/mo and includes ESPNHD, Discovery, HDNet, HDNet Movies.


WOW HD local lineup is ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,UPN.


To get HD you have to have digital basic which is about $50/mo vs. $36/mo, so maybe this is where you're getting your $15/mo extra from?


-- Paul


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> To get HD you have to have digital basic which is about $50/mo vs. $36/mo, so maybe this is where you're getting your $15/mo extra from?



Yep. That plus the box makes it too much.


Perhaps if I just invest in my own HD cable tuner, that may help.....


-Robert


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I have had WOW since they started HD service and have been very happy with it. Actually the HD locals are "free", you pay $6.99/mo for the SA3250HD box (or $12.99 for the SA8000HD DVR (or maybe it's $14.99/mo)
> 
> 
> The HD Pak is $9.99/mo and includes ESPNHD, Discovery, HDNet, HDNet Movies.
> 
> 
> WOW HD local lineup is ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,UPN.
> 
> 
> To get HD you have to have digital basic which is about $50/mo vs. $36/mo, so maybe this is where you're getting your $15/mo extra from?
> 
> 
> -- Paul*



Paul,


You are completely correct. I have analog basic so to add HDTV would be 14.99 for the first level and an extra 9.99 for the second level. But, if I had digital alread, it's only an additional 6.99. In fact, the total for basic analog cable, ultra speed internet, and the first level HDTV comes out to 93.49 and the total for basic digital cable, ultra speed internet, and the first level HDTV comes out to 93.48. It's actually cheaper to get HDTV with digital service than with analog service.


I picked up one of the fusion HDTV cards and it wasn't able to find any HDTV stations, but I am able to get most of the local stations via an antenna.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frogster_
> *I picked up one of the fusion HDTV cards and it wasn't able to find any HDTV stations, but I am able to get most of the local stations via an antenna.*



Is that the Fusion card with QAM support? I was wondering if that would pick up the WOW HD locals...


----------



## Valnar

I bought one of those Fusion cards too and have only analog WOW cable in North Royalton. It does pick up some of the local HD stations (all above channel 100).


The picture isn't that great mainly because of my display and limitations of using the ATI Radeon overlay, so it wasn't worth keeping it connected for me compared to OTA (I live only 5 miles from the Parma towers).


Robert


----------



## frogster

Yes, it does have QAM support, but it didn't find any HD stations on wowway. Maybe they have a filter on my line that removes those stations or I'm not using the proper drivers.


I'm only 3 miles from the towers in parma so I'm getting pretty good reception OTA. The only problem I'm having is that I have to change the orientation of the antenna for some of the stations. That's fine if I'm watching, but not so good if I want to record a show.


I'm kinda bummed that my first weekend of HDTV has the bucks and browns in non-HD.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frogster_
> *I'm kinda bummed that my first weekend of HDTV has the bucks and browns in non-HD.*



The Browns will be in HD on Fox this weekend.


----------



## Inundated

Is WOIO-DT off again? I'm not getting a single bit of signal out of them, where everyone else is fine (including sister WUAB-DT)...they were coming in last night, but not this afternoon.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *The Browns will be in HD on Fox this weekend.*



Here's how it generally works: FOX does NFC games, CBS does AFC games. If an NFC team is playing an AFC team, the network of the ROAD team will do the game...so since the Philadelphia Eagles (NFC) are the road team and the Browns are at home, FOX will do the game.


This is the first week FOX will be airing two games NOT in HD. But Browns-Eagles IS on the HD list.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, WOIO-DT is back up.


----------



## frogster

What do you use for local HDTV listings? I set up with titantv, but they show the browns game as non HD and the jets game as HD.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frogster_
> *What do you use for local HDTV listings? I set up with titantv, but they show the browns game as non HD and the jets game as HD.*



I have Directv and according to their Listing Sundays Browns game is FOX HD....


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

for Sunday, we get the following games over the air in HD:


1pm - Eagles at Browns - Fox 8

4pm - Jets at Patriots - CBS 19

4pm - Cowboys at Packers - Fox 8




On another note: Does anyone have the ability to take HD screen captures on their computer? I have a presentation to give in my selling class, and I want some current pictures to show for comparison purposes. If anyone can get some shots of the Browns game, or the Pats/Jets game, it would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks


Mike


----------



## frogster

I"ll try to grab some screen shots during the game.


----------



## DCSholtis

WOIO-DT down again......


----------



## Inundated

If WOIO-DT was down, it came back up...I've been watching it for the past 15 minutes or so (OTA).


----------



## DCSholtis

Anyone else ever have trouble getting a lock on WJW-DT 8.1. I use an outdoor Antenna but Ive also used an indoor one to test things out as far as antenna aiming.


----------



## electrocutioner

My experience with WOIO-DT OTA has been this:


From 7.5 miles out with roof antenna, I have been receiving >90% OR NO SIGNAL.


The confusing aspect of it is that when they are at NO SIGNAL, I can use my antenna rotor to get them around 60-70%. But it is very intermittent. Signal will bounce from 30% to 70%.


When I first installed my antenna about a month ago, I thought it was my antenna. So I emailed WOIO and they verified that they were indeed doing antenna work and the digital panel was down.


They were at full output most of last week, but I do remember losing signal briefly thursday or friday.


My conclusion is that it is not my antenna setup, because I have always received >90% on all other locals including WVIZ. the exception would be wkyc at 85%.


----------



## frank10

I haven't noticed any reception problems with WOIO-DT OTA, but I don't have it on all that often.


----------



## Inundated

WOIO-DT has been doing antenna work on and off the past couple of weeks. Generally, they'll be down in the mid-to-late afternoons weekdays, but manage to come up before HD programming starts in evenings.


I've never had much problem getting a lock on either WOIO-DT or WJW-DT, and I'm in a condo with a second floor loft and large windows, surrounded by a lot of trees. I really couldn't have much luck with being able to put an outdoor antenna up, and besides, my deck mostly faces south anyway. That's good for DirecTV if I decide to go satellite, but bad for trying to get OTA out of the Parma antenna farm.


It's not a huge deal, as I can get nearly all the local DT stations with the indoor antenna, anyway (maybe some fiddling around required between a couple of 'em). WKYC-DT is the only laggard from my regular antenna placement spot near the window. But, by dragging out a ladder and putting the antenna up a little higher in the middle of the loft facing the window, I get a solid lock on WKYC-DT. Unfortunately, that's not a pretty sight.










This situation has basically stopped me from dumping Adelphia Horrible Cable and going satellite, until I can find one "set and forget" spot for the antenna that doesn't require A) moving it around or B) putting it on an ugly ladder in the middle of the loft!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> I've never had much problem getting a lock on either WOIO-DT or WJW-DT, and I'm in a condo with a second floor loft and large windows, surrounded by a lot of trees. I really couldn't have much luck with being able to put an outdoor antenna up, and besides, my deck mostly faces south anyway. That's good for DirecTV if I decide to go satellite, but bad for trying to get OTA out of the Parma antenna farm.
> *



I feel your pain. Hopefully, we'll all be able to receive locals in HD from the dish in the near future.


----------



## DCSholtis

Ive never had probs getting locks on 3-1 thru 3-3, 5.1, 19-1. 8-1 and 25-1 are what I have probs with I live within close range of the antenna farm. Brooklyn Hts/Seven Hills


----------



## hookbill

Hey guys,


I just got a home theater and installed it on Saturday to accompany my HDTV. It's a Pioneer system and the main reason I bought it was because it had a wireless rear speaker system.


Ok, so my question to you guys out there that get HD and have Adelphia is what type of signal do you receive on your units? I seem to get a "digital" signal even when I'm watching shows that I know are in Dolby 5.1. If I watch something on my DVD player however it shows "Dolby Digital". Is this an Adelphia thing? What do you guys with OTA get?


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> Ive never had probs getting locks on 3-1 thru 3-3, 5.1, 19-1. 8-1 and 25-1 are what I have probs with I live within close range of the antenna farm. Brooklyn Hts/Seven Hills



I live in North Royalton (5.5 miles) and have a problem with a lock on 8-1 for the audio. It drops in & out every few seconds. It's very annoying and my wife won't let me watch that channel with her in the room. The signal strength is 82%+ and my tuner will lock in at 40% for most channels.


Anyone else have this issue? I don't know if its my HD tuner, my DD receiver (audio is via SPDIF) or channel 8.


-Robert


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Hey guys,
> 
> 
> I just got a home theater and installed it on Saturday to accompany my HDTV. It's a Pioneer system and the main reason I bought it was because it had a wireless rear speaker system.
> 
> 
> Ok, so my question to you guys out there that get HD and have Adelphia is what type of signal do you receive on your units? I seem to get a "digital" signal even when I'm watching shows that I know are in Dolby 5.1. If I watch something on my DVD player however it shows "Dolby Digital". Is this an Adelphia thing? What do you guys with OTA get?*



Fox and NBC are the only local stations that have DD 5.1


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *I bought one of those Fusion cards too and have only analog WOW cable in North Royalton. It does pick up some of the local HD stations (all above channel 100).
> 
> 
> The picture isn't that great mainly because of my display and limitations of using the ATI Radeon overlay, so it wasn't worth keeping it connected for me compared to OTA (I live only 5 miles from the Parma towers).
> 
> 
> Robert*



Valnar,


What version of driver were you using to pick up HD on wowway? I'm using the latest 2.7 and it can't find any. I can get all of the local OTA stations in pretty good except for WUAB. I'm hoping I can figure out a way to get it through my cable connection.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *Fox and NBC are the only local stations that have DD 5.1*



Oh really, ABC doesn't? Well, that still didn't answer the question I asked. What I asked was if your getting it over Adelphia or OTA? And does it show as Dolby on your Home Theater or whatever type of amplifier you have. On my it just shows digital. Again the only Dolby signal I get is from DVD's.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *I live in North Royalton (5.5 miles) and have a problem with a lock on 8-1 for the audio. It drops in & out every few seconds. It's very annoying and my wife won't let me watch that channel with her in the room. The signal strength is 82%+ and my tuner will lock in at 40% for most channels.
> 
> 
> Anyone else have this issue? I don't know if its my HD tuner, my DD receiver (audio is via SPDIF) or channel 8.
> 
> 
> -Robert*



Robert,

I'm having the exact same problem. I'm using a MyHD tuner card in my HTPC. What kind of tuner are you using?

Steve


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *Anyone else have this issue? I don't know if its my HD tuner, my DD receiver (audio is via SPDIF) or channel 8.*



It sounds like a DD-related issue. I'm using a cheapie USDigital STB with no 5.1 audio at all and have no audio problems with WJW-DT (ditto over cable with Adelphia). It could be on their end, and I just don't hear it since I'm using just two channel audio.


For the guy in Brooklyn Heights/Seven Hills... any problems you may be having with 25-1 is due to the fact that WVIZ-DT is running a VERY small antenna on their building in a very temporary setup. They're at low power and from what someone posted earlier on this thread, the antenna barely clears their building on Brookpark Road.


I can't get them at ALL down here in Akron, needless to say, though the presence of WEAO-DT 50 alleviates that for me somewhat. There's a rumor that WVIZ-DT will show up on Adelphia in the next month or two... no idea when they'll get that tower disupte resolved with Infinity Broadcasting for the main tower.


Anyone in here hear any news on DT plans for WBNX, WVPX and WOAC?


The last I'd heard, both WBNX and WVPX were having problems in coordinating with Canadian broadcasters. No idea if that's holding up WOAC-DT. It'd be nice to have the WB in HD, WVPX on my digital tuner for the local Akron/Canton newscasts...and well, WOAC would just light up another channel for me


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Oh really, ABC doesn't? Well, that still didn't answer the question I asked. What I asked was if your getting it over Adelphia or OTA? And does it show as Dolby on your Home Theater or whatever type of amplifier you have. On my it just shows digital. Again the only Dolby signal I get is from DVD's.*



Yes, our local ABC & CBS stations do not pass the DD 5.1 when available.


My Adelphia box is not setup for 5.1 as I'm out of digital inputs on my receiver. I do get 5.1 OTA on Fox and NBC and it shows as DD on the receiver.


I would check the setup and make sure you have it correct and use HDNet or HDNet movies to test the DD 5.1 since they both use 5.1.



What have you watched that you think should be 5.1 and it didn't show on your receiver?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *It sounds like a DD-related issue. I'm using a cheapie USDigital STB with no 5.1 audio at all and have no audio problems with WJW-DT (ditto over cable with Adelphia). It could be on their end, and I just don't hear it since I'm using just two channel audio.
> 
> *



Fox DD via OTA was fine yesterday for both the football and baseball.


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> frogster: What version of driver were you using to pick up HD on wowway? I'm using the latest 2.7 and it can't find any. I can get all of the local OTA stations in pretty good except for WUAB. I'm hoping I can figure out a way to get it through my cable connection.



I was using the latest version. I didn't end up keeping the card because I couldn't put up with the picture quality on my VGA card. It doesn't compare to the component inputs on my HDTV.





> Quote:
> SteveC: I'm having the exact same problem. I'm using a MyHD tuner card in my HTPC. What kind of tuner are you using?


*Yes!* I'm using the MyHD MDP-120 card too. 'Glad to know (sort of) that it's tuner related and not the station, unless somebody else chimes in with the same problem on a different tuner.










I do like the card so I'm keeping it, but it does have the occasional audio dropout. It doesn't matter if I use it's own coax SPDIF output or channel it through the PCI bus to my sound card. But the picture quality certainly is great.


I may end up compromsing and buying a STB anyway, such as the LG LST-3410A . It offers both QAM and ATSC, with component out. The PVR and firewire are a bonus. Hopefully it will solve all my audio problems. We'll see.


-Robert


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> 
> *I was using the latest version. I didn't end up keeping the card because I couldn't put up with the picture quality on my VGA card. It doesn't compare to the component inputs on my HDTV.
> *


*


I tried it again and I was able to get 1 channel off of wowway, channel 113 which is some type of preview channel. There were other channels that had 100% signal, but no picture or sound came through. I'll have to try it again in a few weeks.*


----------



## intermod

Upper UHF is really HOT right now!!!


19:45 EDT CBS ch. 62 Detroit is solid, even off the back. Look at the

radar on NWS. Can you spell AP? (I can't)


Dan


----------



## melbo1

Is 19 off the air again? I haven't been able to pick up a signal all week??


Anyone else having trouble?


----------



## Shark73

I'm not having trouble with 19 tonight. I was getting drops but I moved the antenna and it's coming in strong now.


----------



## baggio21

Been so satisfied with the quality of Voom. All of their stations come in great. The programming could be a little better but that will improve with time.


Watching the Browns and the World series on Fox this past week was just breathtaking. The bass response from the Browns game was just incredible. Felt like I was at Browns stadium.


I have been having some signal issues with local channels lately. I am using the grey OTA antenna that comes with the Voom kit. Fox has been the most consistent. Incredible picture and sound. I've had a few breaks in the broadcast but nothing down for a long period of time.


WKYC (channel 3) NBC and WJW (channel 8) CBS have not been working at all over the past couple weeks. I had CBS working for college football a couple weeks back but it has not since. NBC has barely worked at all.


Has anyone else had problems with the factory antenna from Voom or should the antenna be upgraded?


I've been on the roof and moved the antenna around at least six different times to no avail. Any advice or info on the situation would be great.


HD rules!! Especially on a 144 inch diagnal screen. I'm so spoiled with HD. Watching standard television is just boring!!!


----------



## intermod

Detroit Digital Stations rolling in tonight!


Again check the NWS Radar, Lots of A.P. Often pick up the analog "Flame

throwers" but seldom get the digital counterpart. WBJK 2-1 @ 74 pointing 305 DGS. from Parma 108 mi. downrange. WKYC 2-1 CLE. 1.1 mi. down range.

Pretty cool!


Dan


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by baggio21_
> *Been so satisfied with the quality of Voom. All of their stations come in great. The programming could be a little better but that will improve with time.
> 
> 
> Watching the Browns and the World series on Fox this past week was just breathtaking. The bass response from the Browns game was just incredible. Felt like I was at Browns stadium.
> 
> 
> I have been having some signal issues with local channels lately. I am using the grey OTA antenna that comes with the Voom kit. Fox has been the most consistent. Incredible picture and sound. I've had a few breaks in the broadcast but nothing down for a long period of time.
> 
> 
> WKYC (channel 3) NBC and WJW (channel 8) CBS have not been working at all over the past couple weeks. I had CBS working for college football a couple weeks back but it has not since. NBC has barely worked at all.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with the factory antenna from Voom or should the antenna be upgraded?
> 
> 
> I've been on the roof and moved the antenna around at least six different times to no avail. Any advice or info on the situation would be great.
> 
> 
> HD rules!! Especially on a 144 inch diagonal screen. I'm so spoiled with HD. Watching standard television is just boring!!!*



From what I've read on the Voom forum, Voom will upgrade your antenna if you don't get all the locals. Have you called their support line? By the way, I also have Voom and enjoy it very much.

Steve


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Detroit Digital Stations rolling in tonight!
> 
> 
> Again check the NWS Radar, Lots of A.P. Often pick up the analog "Flame
> 
> throwers" but seldom get the digital counterpart. WBJK 2-1 @ 74 pointing 305 DGS. from Parma 108 mi. downrange. WKYC 2-1 CLE. 1.1 mi. down range.
> 
> Pretty cool!
> 
> 
> Dan*



What is A.P.???


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by frogster_
> *What is A.P.???*



And what info re signal strength can we glean from the NWS Radar? Links please?


----------



## intermod

A.P. = anomolyis propogation.


It indicates an enhancement of troposheric conditions that can cause

radio signals to travel far beyond line of sight.....which VHF and UHF sigs

tend to do unless they are influenced by some atmospheric anomoly.


A strong return from the Canadian shoreline is a good indicator of

of enhancement for us along the North coast. please check out
http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html for predictions and other

usefull info regarding this stuff. Of course you need a OTA Antenna.


I often use ch 27 out of y_town to check conditions. It's pretty solid

even with no AP detectable on the radar. Channel 21 also out of Youngstown

comes and goes and I have never seen channel 20 here even when I can

pick up Pittsburgh stations.


Dan


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *A.P. = anomolyis propogation.
> 
> 
> It indicates an enhancement of troposheric conditions that can cause
> 
> radio signals to travel far beyond line of sight.....which VHF and UHF sigs
> 
> tend to do unless they are influenced by some atmospheric anomoly.
> 
> 
> A strong return from the Canadian shoreline is a good indicator of
> 
> of enhancement for us along the North coast. please check out
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html for predictions and other
> 
> usefull info regarding this stuff. Of course you need a OTA Antenna.
> 
> 
> I often use ch 27 out of y_town to check conditions. It's pretty solid
> 
> even with no AP detectable on the radar. Channel 21 also out of Youngstown
> 
> comes and goes and I have never seen channel 20 here even when I can
> 
> pick up Pittsburgh stations.
> 
> 
> Dan*



This is very cool stuff. So I would surmise by the straight line from Chicago to Cleveland predicted on Wed Nov 3, Detroit TV should be coming in, and Chicago radio (like a WGN) would be coming in pretty clear as well...


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *A.P. = anomolyis propogation.*



Meaning no disrespect, and in the spirit of just getting it right, I believe it's anomalous propagation


----------



## intermod

Meaning no disrespect, and in the spirit of just getting it right, I believe it's anomalous propagation


None taken, but after all, why do you think we call it A.P.?


Thanks man


Dan


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *........why do you think we call it A.P.?*










LOL! Good point!


----------



## SKoprowski

I have TWC in Canton, OH. does anyone know why they don't offer WOIO channel 19 in HD yet? I just got a tuner and was hoping to see the football in HD tomorrow. TW going to add them soon?


Thanks,


Scott


----------



## jtscherne

WOIO HD is a difficult catch for the local cable companies. The only one I know for sure that carries it is Wide Open West. Adelphia, for example, has indicated "real soon now" since it introduced HD nearly one year ago.


----------



## Inundated

And one would presume that the problems are coming out of Raycom Media, which owns WOIO. 19's sister station, WUAB/43, is also missing from the local HD lineup on both Adelphia and Time Warner, and presumably others. Of course, WUAB's network, UPN, only had one HD show until this fall.


I'm surprised Wide Open West has been able to carry WOIO.


----------



## jtscherne

WOW also has WUAB, so that may be part of the issue with the other cable companies.


----------



## Inundated

That seals it, for me. It sounds like Raycom is doing something...like perhaps asking for money in exchange for carrying the HD signals, and WOW apparently reached an agreement with them. In other markets, stations have been balking at some cable companies because the cable outlets didn't carry subchannels, but that's not the case here...as neither 19 nor 43 have any.


Well, I don't really care, personally...it just means I watch less of WOIO and WUAB. I can get them in SD, of course, and I can get them with my OTA tuner, but my network channel surfing these days is done mostly in the HD section...unless there's something I know is on and want to watch (like the Browns on weekends). For me, that keeps me on 3, 5 and 8, since those are the three over-air networks available on Adelphia...and if I find nothing I want to watch there, I'll dip into the HD channels first before looking into the SD channels.


And I like watching the local news on the digital channels, too, even if they aren't doing the newscasts in HD. The signal is MUCH clearer on the HD/DT versions of 3, 5 and 8 on cable, vs. the SD signals of the over-air stations on cable...at least on Adelphia, the Crummiest Cable System in America. Of course, 19/43's newscasts are barely watchable in ANY resolution.











Oh, Scott...don't worry TOO much about football tomorrow, as the Browns are off this week. You still will miss whatever CBS/WOIO-19 puts on, of course, but FOX 8's games (and ESPN HD's Sunday night game, and WEWS' Monday Night Football) are still available to you on cable.


----------



## Inundated

Wind?


I'm having some freeze-ups and pixelation on many of my HD channels on Adelphia cable today...something I haven't seen since the first day or so I had the cable installed. I'm also having some problems getting a lock on WOIO-DT via OTA, which I presume is somehow related to the wind moving all these trees around...


Anyone else seeing this?


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, Scott...don't worry TOO much about football tomorrow, as the Browns are off this week. You still will miss whatever CBS/WOIO-19 puts on, of course, but FOX 8's games (and ESPN HD's Sunday night game, and WEWS' Monday Night Football) are still available to you on cable.*



Sorry..............but I'm kind of a Steelers fan. I was hoping to see them in HD tomorrow. Thanks for all the input though.


Scott


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *WOIO HD is a difficult catch for the local cable companies. The only one I know for sure that carries it is Wide Open West. Adelphia, for example, has indicated "real soon now" since it introduced HD nearly one year ago.*



I've never understood the braindead mentality of station managers who give cable and satellite companies a hard time for carrying their signals when it's to their advantage to spread their signal as far and wide as possible. Here in Medina, the cable company has ABC, NBC, Fox and PBS digital, but no CBS or UPN.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SKoprowski_
> *Sorry..............but I'm kind of a Steelers fan. I was hoping to see them in HD tomorrow. Thanks for all the input though.*



Boo!!! ;D


Well, I don't know how much luck you'd have in Canton, but an OTA receiver with amplified indoor antenna picks up WOIO-DT just fine here in the Akron area. You'd have to get the receiver, of course, maybe pick up the USDigital at Wally World for just under $200...


and return it if it doesn't work


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by techweb_
> *I've never understood the braindead mentality of station managers who give cable and satellite companies a hard time for carrying their signals when it's to their advantage to spread their signal as far and wide as possible. Here in Medina, the cable company has ABC, NBC, Fox and PBS digital, but no CBS or UPN.*



Looks like Armstrong is yet another victim of Raycom/WOIO/WUAB!


It's short sighted thinking by that company. Would Raycom pull analog versions of WOIO/WUAB from cable companies? Of course not. (Though some broadcasters have engaged in such "chicken" games in some markets hoping to get other compensation, like carriage of a cable channel owned by the same company...)


Raycom/WOIO/WUAB is by far the worst run local TV operation in the Cleveland market...even the Rev. Ernest Angley-owned WBNX/55 is more professional. (And they're only not running WBNX-DT right now due to signal conflict issues with Canada.)


----------



## handsworth

Adelphia (Cleveland area), is releasing the new SA8300HD STB now. It is not available at all payment windows yet but give them a few days. It has a new smaller design with better HD and DVR functions. I picked one up Friday and am giving it a workout.


1. the pass thru function is back

2. the remote sucks

3. transfer to VCR is enabled

4. 8300HD has HDMI, optical, coax, sata and EEE1394 ports. ( I can only verify the coax output as operational at this time).

5. delivers both SD and HD simultaneously

6. front LED displays time, format and "HDTV" signal

7. front composite inputs but not active yet.

8. cannot confirm if multi room features are enabled.


I swapped my 8000hd for this one strictly for the pass -thru option. I do have one complaint though. You can set the box up in HD mode by pressing the guide and info buttons and going through the wizard, however when you turn off the box for about 1/2 hour, it reverts back to SD mode. Does anyone know how to permanently keep it HD mode? I will keep you informed on the status of the ports as I find out.


UPDATE #2.

WVIZ (channel 25) will launch on 11/29. HD Channel #710----FREE

Discovery HD Theater launches the same day Channel # 776-- Part of HD Plus tier.


----------



## SKoprowski

Update- Anyone using a QAM tuner with TWC? I can get the standard tier HD channels fine except TNT-HD has a great picture but no sound. Anyone else have that problem with TNT-HD? BTW- I ended up getting a LG 3100A OTA/QAM receiver.


----------



## bubblegum1647

I have a Armstrong Cable installer living in my neighborhood and he told me they are all set up for WOIO CH8 HD all they have to do is flip the switch. There contract runs out in 2005 and new contract should have CH8 HD. Lets hope. Would like to see Armstrong get TNT HD also


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *You can set the box up in HD mode by pressing the guide and info buttons and going through the wizard, however when you turn off the box for about 1/2 hour, it reverts back to SD mode.*



Will the box stay in HD mode if you leave it on?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Adelphia (Cleveland area), is releasing the new SA8300HD STB now. It is not available at all payment windows yet but give them a few days. It has a new smaller design with better HD and DVR functions. I picked one up Friday and am giving it a workout.
> 
> 
> 1. the pass thru function is back
> 
> 2. the remote sucks
> 
> 3. transfer to VCR is enabled
> 
> 4. 8300HD has HDMI, optical, coax, sata and EEE1394 ports. ( I can only verify the coax output as operational at this time).
> 
> 5. delivers both SD and HD simultaneously
> 
> 6. front LED displays time, format and "HDTV" signal
> 
> 7. front composite inputs but not active yet.
> 
> 8. cannot confirm if multi room features are enabled.
> 
> UPDATE #2.
> 
> W
> 
> I swapped my 8000hd for this one strictly for the pass -thru option. I do have one complaint though. You can set the box up in HD mode by pressing the guide and info buttons and going through the wizard, however when you turn off the box for about 1/2 hour, it reverts back to SD mode. Does anyone know how to permanently keep it HD mode? I will keep you informed on the status of the ports as I find out.
> 
> 
> VIZ (channel 25) will launch on 11/29. HD Channel #710----FREE
> 
> Discovery HD Theater launches the same day Channel # 776-- Part of HD Plus tier.*



I was confused about when we were suppose to get those new stations. I thought it was this month, thanks for the clerification.


Can you explain to me what the pass thru option is? I've got alot of stuff on my 8000HD and I wouldn't want to attempt to turn it in unless it was something really worth while.


Transfer to VCR is already available on 8000HD.


Remote sucks? How's that?


I've already got a DVI to HDMI converter on the back of my HD 8000. I'll bet those HDMI port is not active.


----------



## handsworth

Tom, yes the box will stay in HD if you leave it on, however just like the other SA DVR boxes, they automatically shut down around 1:00 AM. I thought of that Sat. nite and when I turned it back on this morning it was back to SD mode. BTW, I am using component cables and the entire screen will be red in SD mode.


----------



## handsworth

The pass thru option is a setting that automatically formats the picture size on your TV. No need to go into the settings when switching back and forth from 480 to 720 to 1080. Full screen automatically. The 8000hd has a DVI output which is inactive now. The 8300HD does not have a DVI. It has the HDMI output in which an adapter is needed to connect to the TV's DVI. I was not sure that the VCR out plugs were enabled on the 800HD. I was told that there were software issues still.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *And I like watching the local news on the digital channels, too, even if they aren't doing the newscasts in HD.*



I expected WKYC to be doing the news in HD by now, after all, they ran beautiful HD "Newsteam 3" promos on the NBC Olympics HD feed. My emails to them re this have gone unanswered - they probably put me in the killfile for all my complaining about multicasting.


I would think 19/43's "Let's turn the contrast up to 11!" newscast would be a great example of what *not* to do in broadcast engineering school. Absolute worst PQ.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> 
> 
> 
> I would think 19/43's "Let's turn the contrast up to 11!" newscast would be a great example of what *not* to do in broadcast engineering school. Absolute worst PQ. [/b]




Yeah, thats nasty looking.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *The pass thru option is a setting that automatically formats the picture size on your TV. No need to go into the settings when switching back and forth from 480 to 720 to 1080. Full screen automatically. The 8000hd has a DVI output which is inactive now. The 8300HD does not have a DVI. It has the HDMI output in which an adapter is needed to connect to the TV's DVI. I was not sure that the VCR out plugs were enabled on the 800HD. I was told that there were software issues still.*



OK, thanks for the info on the pass thru. I can tell you for certain that the VCR outplugs do work on the 8000hd. I've used it several times now. You still did not mention if you were certain the HDMI output is active on your 8300HD. If it is please let us know that certainly is something I'd be interested in.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I would think 19/43's "Let's turn the contrast up to 11!" newscast would be a great example of what *not* to do in broadcast engineering school. Absolute worst PQ.*



Oh, agreed!! Absolutely awful PQ to go with an awful on-air product. Kinda fits, doesn't it?


3, 5 and 8 all look pretty good for SD quality. If any of 'em do news in HD, keep in mind that they'd either A) have to put in HD field cams or B) upconvert the SD cams.


----------



## hookbill

OK, so finding out that Adelphia does have the 8300 available in our area I called customer service this morning to find out about availability. Once I explained what it was I was looking for she said she wanted to check, came back to the phone and said she would call the Macedonia office for me.


After a bit of a wait she returned to the phone and said she called Macedonia and they had them in stock I could go down and pick one up.


I went into the Macedonia office and explained why I was there. I told them that CS had called them and they confirmed they had them in stock. The lady at the front desk said no one had called them. I said well, perhaps they didn't speak with you but they spoke with somebody here. She called back to her warehouse and of course, nobody had spoken to anybody. They couldn't help me.


This is the third time this has happened to me. I completely lost it and told them that their customer service sucked, why would someone lie to me? It didn't make sense. I began to use a couple of "G.D.s" in the course of my tirade (carefully avoiding all other types of language, but I was pissed and I wanted them to know it) when some guy behind me told me to watch my language. Well, then he got some language (called him an a## wipe) and told him to mind his own business. At this point some lady came from somewhere because him and I were heating it up and mentioned calling the cops if we didn't calm down. I said you probably have it on your speed dial with the kind of service this company gives, but I did cool it by then and she made a call and told me that she will have a unit for me there by tomorrow in the afternoon.


You know this could be so avoidable if we simply could call the local office ourselves. I don't believe the girl I talked to at CS lied to me and I don't think anyone at their office lied but the miscommunication at this place is unbelievable.


Well, I'll probably go pick up the 8300 tomorrow. The only reason I want it is because from what I'm reading on SA's web site is the HDMI appears to be active. In a way the delay is good because it will give me a chance to archive some of my shows so I don't loose everything.


Thanks for letting me rant.


Oh, the last words I said to them as I left was it's no wonder this company is being bought out.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I completely lost it*



Not that unusual! My final insult from Adelphia was when I went to the Severance office to return my cable box (changing from Adelphia to WOW). Maybe 2 people in line in front of me. I stood there for a good half hour I would guess. Most of the delay was due to an elderly russian gentleman who had completely lost it on the stone-faced CSR behind the counter. The police almost had to be called on that one too.


----------



## bslep

Did anyone have a problem picking up Channel 3's OTA digital signal last night? I got a new LG OTA tuner/receiver and couldn't pick it up at all. I don't know if it's the tuner or if it was the station.


----------



## Tom in OH

My neighbor has TWC and his volume can't be turned up loud enough for him to hear very well. He has an HDTV digital cable box and uses the tv's speakers. Does anyone know if the box has an internal volume that might solve his problem?


Thx,

Tom


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *My neighbor has TWC and his volume can't be turned up loud enough for him to hear very well. He has an HDTV digital cable box and uses the tv's speakers. Does anyone know if the box has an internal volume that might solve his problem?
> 
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Tom*



On my box the level is fixed. There is no option for volume. Tom, without knowing the TV it's difficult to say what else he can do. Buying a home theater helps.







But if that isn't an option maybe something he can switch in his TV options. My Sony has several different options for sound that make it sound louder (and better).


----------



## hookbill

Well, when I'm wrong I'll admit it. After I posted the above I started thinking about it and I wasn't sure about the "fixed" volume in the box.


Yes there should be something in his settings to adjust the volume. He can change it from fixed to variable. Now on my box there is an arrow key on the front panel that will allow you to raise the level. It goes up to 30 (which is where mine was). Have your friend give that a try.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *On my box the level is fixed. There is no option for volume. Tom, without knowing the TV it's difficult to say what else he can do. Buying a home theater helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if that isn't an option maybe something he can switch in his TV options. My Sony has several different options for sound that make it sound louder (and better).*



This was my first thought as well, that he should find a digital receiver and hook up external speakers but he just isn't into it. He called the cable company and they had no clue why the volume was so low. They replaced the box which made no difference. We have a Sony also and at night it can be heard without a problem using only 2 or 3 pegs of volume.


I'll check his Mitsubishi's sound options as you suggest and see if that helps.


Thx, Tom


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, when I'm wrong I'll admit it. After I posted the above I started thinking about it and I wasn't sure about the "fixed" volume in the box.
> 
> 
> Yes there should be something in his settings to adjust the volume. He can change it from fixed to variable. Now on my box there is an arrow key on the front panel that will allow you to raise the level. It goes up to 30 (which is where mine was). Have your friend give that a try.*



Hi,

just found your next post. This is what I'm hoping for - somewhere on the box that will raise or lower the sound level before it reaches the tv. I suspect the internal volume is set low due to most people using the digital optical output on digital HD cable boxes. My neighbor's using the analog outs directly to the Mitsi.


Thx again, I'll post any good news.


Tom


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bslep_
> *Did anyone have a problem picking up Channel 3's OTA digital signal last night? I got a new LG OTA tuner/receiver and couldn't pick it up at all. I don't know if it's the tuner or if it was the station.*



It's been troublesome here also for about a month. You may be right that the LG has a different sensitivity than another HD tuner. How was your reception from 3-1 before instaling the LG?


----------



## Inundated

I'm having trouble picking up WKYC-DT even in the usual places I've been able to get it (like on a ladder in the middle of my condo's loft).


WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT are the two weakest stations in the market, likely owing to their VHF placements.


----------



## bslep

Tom, I have no trouble picking up Channel 3 with my Zenith HD 520. The signal is actually good and I rarely experience drop-outs. It's so puzzling. With the LG, the signal is next to nothing. The seller of the LG was good enough to let me try it before I bought it, so I'm sticking with the Zenith. I'm so disappointed because I really wanted an HD DVR recorder.


----------



## Tom in OH

We have the Zenith SAT-520 also and discovered the sensitivity closely matches the Directv HR10-250 DVR.


----------



## bslep

You must get good reception then. I am using mine for OTA only and bought it second hand because of all of the positive things I read about the sensitivity of the tuner. I was not disappointed. It does the best job of pulling in signals of any tuner I've had and it also has the best picture.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Adelphia (Cleveland area), is releasing the new SA8300HD STB now. It is not available at all payment windows yet but give them a few days. It has a new smaller design with better HD and DVR functions. I picked one up Friday and am giving it a workout.
> 
> 
> 1. the pass thru function is back
> 
> 2. the remote sucks
> 
> 3. transfer to VCR is enabled
> 
> 4. 8300HD has HDMI, optical, coax, sata and EEE1394 ports. ( I can only verify the coax output as operational at this time).
> 
> 5. delivers both SD and HD simultaneously
> 
> 6. front LED displays time, format and "HDTV" signal
> 
> 7. front composite inputs but not active yet.
> 
> 8. cannot confirm if multi room features are enabled.
> 
> 
> I swapped my 8000hd for this one strictly for the pass -thru option. I do have one complaint though. You can set the box up in HD mode by pressing the guide and info buttons and going through the wizard, however when you turn off the box for about 1/2 hour, it reverts back to SD mode. Does anyone know how to permanently keep it HD mode? I will keep you informed on the status of the ports as I find out.
> 
> *



I just picked this box up and first let me tell everyonethe the HDMI connection is working!


Even the standard definition channels look much cleaner.


When I did the set up it did not give me the pass thru option because I hooked up the HDMI. It instead it gives an Auto HDMI/DVI option. I haven't turned off my set long enough to find out if it stays active, I'll follow up on this.


----------



## hookbill

OK, don't everybody run out and get this thing yet. I'm having the same problem handsworth was having. When you shut it off it defaults to 480i and you have to reprogram it. Even when you don't program it for 480i.


----------



## handsworth

My box is working fine now, It stays in HD mode. I believe I might have gotten a download sometime saturday night or early sunday morning. My software ver. is SARA 1.85.14.a2


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *My box is working fine now, It stays in HD mode. I believe I might have gotten a download sometime saturday night or early sunday morning. My software ver. is SARA 1.85.14.a2*



Yes, my version is 1.85.14.2. Seems like I don't have that "A" grade.


Other observations. If I switch viewing (TV 1, 2 etc.) screens the box defaults back to 480i. I've noticed that if I shut it off at the machine instead of using the remote control it does NOT default back to 480i. I haven't tried this for an extended period of time.


I hope it comes soon. It's a bit of a pain right now, and I'm not a very patient person.







I've even had thoughts about calling Adelphia about this but then I thought about what kind of trouble and grief that will cause me so I'll just wait.


----------



## paule123

FYI, my SA8000HD on WOW has developed a chronic audio dropout problem on all the channels in the HD tier (the 200 series channels). I've had sporadic audio dropouts before, mostly Fox DD5.1, but this is on all HD channels across the board and very regular, like every second tick tick tick dropouts. The HD's have been unwatchable the past couple days. Analog channels 1-99 and the SD digitals 300 and up audio is fine.


Time to call WOW and get this thing swapped out (at least I can bug them for a 160GB model, this one is a lame 80GB anyway)


----------



## hookbill

I didn't know there were two different hd in the 8000. Definitly sounds like a box issue though.


----------



## oldavnut




> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> 
> *I just picked this box up and first let me tell everyone the HDMI connection is working!
> 
> 
> Hi, sorry to bother with novice question.
> 
> What is the difference between DVI and HDMI? I have DVI connection cable but not HDMI. Fortunately, my TV has both connections. Do I need a new cable for enabling HD8300 HDMI connection?*


----------



## hookbill

DVI is for Digital Video Interface for connecting analog to digital. HDMI is high definition multimedia interface and it provides an interface to both audio and video sources. To use this port on the HD 8300 you will need a HDMI to HDMI cable. If you have an HDMI port on your tv that should be all you need. It won't hook up to a DVI port.


----------



## handsworth

You can also purchase a HDMI to DVI adapter at any reputable A/V retailer for about $30. But hold onto your cash until that port is active. Talked to SA today and they said it would be active with update SARA 1.85.3.1. No ETA as of now.


----------



## Marky_Mark896

Hey Guys,


Could you please tell me when the SA 8000HD boxes DVI output will be activated for Time Warner in Columbia SC?


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## jtscherne

Given that this is a thread for Cleveland, Ohio, I don't think we would have any way to know that.


----------



## Marky_Mark896

oh, Duh... I got in the wrong post...sorry...lol


----------



## SteveC

Watched Smallville last night on channel 20-2 from Youngstown. PQ was very good - much better than what I can get from analog channel 55 in Cleveland. Also since my antenna was pointed in that direction I recorded Lost from channel 36-1. When I played it back I noticed that the sound is Dolby Digital 5.1. Looks like there is not much reason to watch 15-1 in Cleveland anymore. They seem to have no interest in upgrading their audio to 5.1. Anyone know when the CBS affiliate in Youngstown will start broadcasting digitally? Hopefully they will have 5.1 audio also.

Steve


----------



## hookbill

handsworth, I would like to get in touch with SA. My software version is the same as yours and I'm still having stabelization problems. Can you either pm or e mail me at [email protected] with the info?


----------



## Argee

I think its time for us to all call WEWS and WOIO and ask when they will upgrade to 5.1 sound.

I gave up hope long ago about WBNX. Have they ever even gone to MTS stereo? They were (and might still be) the only area station broadcasting in mono.


----------



## TLaz

I've noticed that the signal strength of WEWS-DT has decreased significantly in the last few days here in Canton, OH. Does anyone know why?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TLaz_
> *I've noticed that the signal strength of WEWS-DT has decreased significantly in the last few days here in Canton, OH. Does anyone know why?*



I just managed to get a lock on WEWS-DT on my indoor antenna in northwest Akron. I don't know for sure, but it seems that the highest signal I'm getting is reduced from what I can normally squeeze out of WEWS-DT. My STB doesn't have a percentage indicator, but the signal indicator bar for WEWS-DT 15 is normally closer to full. Still, it's a solid enough signal for a full lock, at least here.


----------



## Inundated

Update: TitanTV is now listing WVIZ-DT in Adelphia's HD lineup, on channel 710.


Of course, it isn't actually LIVE yet, but they apparently think it's coming.


----------



## Chip Z

Finally got Comcast HDTV box (Motorola 6208) last week. Pretty much blown away -- first experience with HDTV. Everything else just seems so ordinary.


Right now I am running the cable box to Z2 projector thru component. Would DVI cable be an improvement? The cable guy said it would but I'd be more interested in what the folks on this board think.


Thanks,


CWZ


----------



## gnalmij

I haven't noticed a problem with WEWS, but I have lost Fox 8 for the last few days -- missed the first half of The O.C. because my Tivo recorded five minues of scattered pixels and then "looking for signal."

Has anyone had a problem with Fox 8 via OTA, or is it just me?

I thought that when the leaves fell off the trees the OTA signal was supposed to get better, not worse. I've been using OTA since April, but I didn't have a problem with Fox 8 until the World Series, when I started to see some pixelation and skipping. For the last few days it won't come in at all (just in time for their fall season to start). I haven't seen any change in the other OTA channels I receive.

Jim


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gnalmij_
> *I haven't noticed a problem with WEWS, but I have lost Fox 8 for the last few days -- missed the first half of The O.C. because my Tivo recorded five minues of scattered pixels and then "looking for signal."
> 
> Has anyone had a problem with Fox 8 via OTA, or is it just me?
> 
> I thought that when the leaves fell off the trees the OTA signal was supposed to get better, not worse. I've been using OTA since April, but I didn't have a problem with Fox 8 until the World Series, when I started to see some pixelation and skipping. For the last few days it won't come in at all (just in time for their fall season to start). I haven't seen any change in the other OTA channels I receive.
> 
> Jim*




No problems with WJW, same strength OTA here in Canton.


----------



## Inundated

No problems getting locks on WJW-DT or WOIO-DT, but I have to move the antenna for some reason! I lost my lock on WOIO-DT when I moved the antenna around for WJW (mixed VHF/UHF amplified indoor), and could not duplicate the former position, but moved the antenna on top of my couch (!) and get nearly a full signal on WOIO-DT.


I can't get anything out of WEWS-DT this afternoon. It must be fully down, as there's now nothing on Adelphia's feed on 705 either.


----------



## jtscherne

I may be moving next year, and one possible location is Streetsboro. As far as I can tell, they're covered by Time Warner Cable.


Anyone here subscribe to TWC? What are your opinions of their HD service?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## Inundated

I don't have it, but TWC is supposedly pretty good. I have seen their HD service at the houses of my sisters (both have it, one sister's husband works for TWCNEO!) and it looked OK to me, but I didn't go through the lineup or anything.


Somewhere earlier on this thread, there's a comparison between the TWCNEO lineup and Adelphia's. I think they were basically even, now that TWC nationwide has added ESPNHD.


Oh, BTW....WEWS-DT is back both OTA and on Adelphia.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Update: TitanTV is now listing WVIZ-DT in Adelphia's HD lineup, on channel 710.
> 
> 
> Of course, it isn't actually LIVE yet, but they apparently think it's coming.*



I spotted that a few days ago, but they still haven't got local hd channels listed yet. I sent an email to them about it and they said it should be on there in about a week.


----------



## hookbill

I thought I'd give you guys another update on the performance of the 8300.


First, it apparently has received some sort of update because it does not revert back to 480i. The auto feature with HDMI is working fine. It chooses the proper HD signals automatically.


I've noticed when I put on any of the music channels it is choosing 480p, which makes sense because the picture on these channels are sort of like slides.


The notice that a recording is going to take place is much shorter then on the 8000 hd. I lke this as I thougt it was annoying to have it on there for such a long time.


Although I haven't had it for a full week yet it appears that this unit is more reliable at holding on to "record each episode" info. On my 8000 HD it would seem to drop certain shows for no apparent reason. I constantly had to double check it.


All and all this machine is much better then the 8000 HD (except the first couple of days while waiting the update). For those of you in the area I recommend calling Adelphia and see about switching to one of these.


----------



## oldavnut




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I thought I'd give you guys another update on the performance of the 8300.
> 
> 
> First, it apparently has received some sort of update because it does not revert back to 480i. The auto feature with HDMI is working fine. It chooses the proper HD signals automatically.
> 
> 
> I've noticed when I put on any of the music channels it is choosing 480p, which makes sense because the picture on these channels are sort of like slides.
> 
> 
> The notice that a recording is going to take place is much shorter then on the 8000 hd. I lke this as I thougt it was annoying to have it on there for such a long time.
> 
> 
> Although I haven't had it for a full week yet it appears that this unit is more reliable at holding on to "record each episode" info. On my 8000 HD it would seem to drop certain shows for no apparent reason. I constantly had to double check it.
> 
> 
> All and all this machine is much better then the 8000 HD (except the first couple of days while waiting the update). For those of you in the area I recommend calling Adelphia and see about switching to one of these.*



Thank you for the update. I've changed to 8300 on Thursday, connected with HDMI-DVI cable, and played around several days. It still goes back to 480i in the morning. Using "setting", it no longer shows choices of 1080i or 480i. Second window of "setting" has choices of auto, fixed, upconvert 1 & 2. I tried auto and fixed, but still goes back to 480i next morning. What shall I do? I don't know if the software is updated.

PQ in FOX-HD football game (Pitt vs. Phylly) was quite grainy, but Brown's game was great. Is it because FOX uses 720p format or sunlight effect?

I'm waiting for HDMI - HDMI cable. Does it help PQ and audio quality?

Thank you again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oldavnut_
> *Thank you for the update. I've changed to 8300 on Thursday, connected with HDMI-DVI cable, and played around several days. It still goes back to 480i in the morning. Using "setting", it no longer shows choices of 1080i or 480i. Second window of "setting" has choices of auto, fixed, upconvert 1 & 2. I tried auto and fixed, but still goes back to 480i next morning. What shall I do? I don't know if the software is updated.
> 
> PQ in FOX-HD football game (Pitt vs. Phylly) was quite grainy, but Brown's game was great. Is it because FOX uses 720p format or sunlight effect?
> 
> I'm waiting for HDMI - HDMI cable. Does it help PQ and audio quality?
> 
> Thank you again.*



The reason it goes back to 480i is because your still waiting for a firmware update. Just what that update is I'm not sure because I don't see any changes in the actual SARA software, but on Friday afternoon my box stabalized. Just be patient it should fix itself. I spoke with a rep at Scientific Atlanta and they told me about the firmeware update. In the meantime you will need each morning to do the setup. You don't have to go through every screen just do the first screen and it should work. Also don't use your remote to turn it on turn it on at the machine.


You don't need to get an HDMI - HDMI cable unless you want your sound going through the same cable and coming out of your TV, and even then only if your TV is Dolby ready. Mine isn't but I don't have a DVI on my TV just HDMI.


I watched Pittsburg vs Philadelphia on Sunday and my pq was excellent. Both FOX and ESPN use 720p so that shouldn't make any difference so I can't tell you what was up with that. ABC also uses 720p.


Don't bother calling Adelphia, as they will have no idea what your talking about and send someone out who will probably just change your box.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chip Z_
> *Finally got Comcast HDTV box (Motorola 6208) last week. Pretty much blown away -- first experience with HDTV. Everything else just seems so ordinary.
> 
> 
> Right now I am running the cable box to Z2 projector thru component. Would DVI cable be an improvement? The cable guy said it would but I'd be more interested in what the folks on this board think.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> CWZ*



The answer re DVI being an improvement is "maybe". I've seen other people complain the DVI was actually worse than component, colors washed out, etc. I think it depends on the STB and display combo.


I for one will never know since my NEC 42VP4 ED plasma (all of a year old) isn't HDCP compliant and won't display an HD res DVI input. I guess the geniuses at NEC figured since an ED plasma technically can't display full HD resolution, why bother adding another $5 of electronics to a $3000 display to make it HDCP compatible. I beleive this is true of most if not all ED displays from other manufacturers as well. Oh well....


----------



## wfwiles

Does anybody know of a good component switch that works. I have an AA1154 but I keep loosing the HD signals from the Comcast cable box. It won't auto switch between my Sony OTA box and the Comcast DVR box. At times the Comcast DVR box signal just goes black. Connecting the Comcast box directly to the TV works ok. Unfortunately I only have one HD component input on the TV and need a switch that works. Any Suggestions..


----------



## Ben Music

wfwiles,


Try INDAY.COM

I've have their 4 in 1 out component switcher with remote control, and it works great. It has very high bandwith and no visiable picture loss. I'm in my third year with this unit, and never a problem.


Hope this helpes,

Ben Music


----------



## rlockshin

I spoke with WEWS engineering and their exciter has been broken for about a week. They said the exciter drives the amplifier tubes and that could be why signal strength is down. Mine went from 100 to 63-77. I live in Bath. Does this make sense.


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Update: TitanTV is now listing WVIZ-DT in Adelphia's HD lineup, on channel 710.
> 
> 
> Of course, it isn't actually LIVE yet, but they apparently think it's coming.*



WVIZ #710 and Discovery Theater #776 debuts 11/29. My sources also say that Adelphia is in serious negotiations with Bravo and TNT. ESPN2HD is slated for 2005. Nothing new on CBS


----------



## jtscherne

Bravo is re-organizing their HD channel:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._fill_hd_web_1


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *WVIZ #710 and Discovery Theater #776 debuts 11/29. My sources also say that Adelphia is in serious negotiations with Bravo and TNT. ESPN2HD is slated for 2005. Nothing new on CBS*



And as much as I love to blame Adelphia, this doesn't appear to be their fault (re: WOIO). I wish someone would buy WOIO/WUAB from Raycom!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *And as much as I love to blame Adelphia, this doesn't appear to be their fault (re: WOIO). I wish someone would buy WOIO/WUAB from Raycom!*



I blame them anyways.







Just out of curiosity I took a look at the listings for the area I use to live in (Northern KY) to see what was available on Insight Cable. Sure enough Raycom, which owns FOX 19 in that area is not listed on the HD channels.


WoW however does carry WOIO. So if they can why not Adelphia?


----------



## grayta

I don't know if this is redundant info, and my apologies if it is. But here are the stations I was able to pull in off of Time Warner NEO's (Canton/Stark County) cable system last night on my Samsung SIR-T451:


Station/Network/Channel#(signal type)


WKYC/NBC/80.1 (HD) 80.2 (SD) 80.3 (Weather Radar)

WEAO-WNEO/PBS/80.4 (HD) 80.5 (SD)

WEWS/ABC/104.1 (HD)

WJW/FOX/104.2 (HD)

NA/HDNET/111.1 (HD)

NA/HDNET Movies 111.2 (HD)

NA/INHD/114.1 (HD)

NA/INHD2/114.2 (HD)

NA/FUEL/115.2 (SD)

NA/DISCOVERY HD/117.2 (HD)

NA/TNT HD/120.2 (HD)


I'm a standard package subscriber, so I literally just put the STB in the cable loop and started searching. There were a couple of other channels I found but deleted (like a shopping channel and an NBA Pass preview channel). All the signals are good, with the exception of TNT and HDNET. HDNET seems to pixilate quite a bit before 8PM, and TNT HD has been in and out (but it seems to be a coding issue, not a signal strength issue).


I found the same signals plus a few more preview channels earlier in the week using an LG LST-3510. However, the LG would not pass audio on TNT or Fuel, and it frequently pixilated on all channels (the signal strength would drop off and return quickly, on all channels).


----------



## SKoprowski

Welcome to the board grayta! I still haven't received my 4200A yet


----------



## paule123

grayta,

Re the SIR-T451 -- according to the specs it only has 1 RF input? So you have to swap coax cables to switch between cable QAM and OTA ?


Where did you buy it at?


Is the Samsung better at OTA reception than the LG ?


Thanks.


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *grayta,
> 
> Re the SIR-T451 -- according to the specs it only has 1 RF input? So you have to swap coax cables to switch between cable QAM and OTA ?
> 
> 
> Where did you buy it at?
> 
> 
> Is the Samsung better at OTA reception than the LG ?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



One RF input, so you'll have to either swap cables or put a splitter in front of it.


Buy.com, $242 delivered (edit: looks like they are out of stock now).


I haven't tried OTA yet (that's a project for this weekend), sorry.


----------



## hookbill

Yesterday I went to tvguide.com to see how their listings look. They have a link on the page for HD only.


While this link will show everything that is broadcast on HD channels it will show what shows are really on HD and what isn't. For me this is the best, complete and accurate listing that I have found so far.


----------



## Argee

Idiots at WUAB did not flip the HD switch until 36 minutes in to the broadcast of Star Trek Enterprise tonight.


----------



## bubblegum1647




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Yesterday I went to tvguide.com to see how their listings look. They have a link on the page for HD only.
> 
> 
> While this link will show everything that is broadcast on HD channels it will show what shows are really on HD and what isn't. For me this is the best, complete and accurate listing that I have found so far.*



Try this site
http://ilovehdtv.com/currentissue.html


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bubblegum1647_
> *Try this site
> http://ilovehdtv.com/currentissue.html *



Bubblegum, Thank you so much for turning me on to that site. It's FABULOUS. I customized my schedule to my stations, named them what I wanted, put them in the order I wanted, and put an icon on my desktop that with one click takes me right to my schedule. I LOVE IT!







Thanks again.


----------



## Inundated

I agree...that site is great!


The only fault I can find so far - it isn't listing the Sunday afternoon NFL games as being on HD on the local stations...i.e. this afternoon's Browns/Steelers game on WOIO/19.1, which is in HD as far as I know (and is listed on DirecTV's NFL Sunday Ticket, on the same site, as being in HD). But that's a minor nitpick...it seems to be "on target" otherwise!


----------



## ZManCartFan

Was anyone able to receive WOIO yesterday afternoon or this afternoon either through cable or especially OTA? I was looking forward to the SEC game yesterday (that was supposedly beautiful) and the Browns game this afternoon. But here in Medina, I could only manage about 10% signal strength, and that could just be background noise.


It's so hit and miss here on that channel. One day the signal strength is about 90% and the next it's next to nil. Is it just me?


----------



## mssturgeon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I agree...that site is great!
> 
> 
> The only fault I can find so far - it isn't listing the Sunday afternoon NFL games as being on HD on the local stations...i.e. this afternoon's Browns/Steelers game on WOIO/19.1, which is in HD as far as I know (and is listed on DirecTV's NFL Sunday Ticket, on the same site, as being in HD). But that's a minor nitpick...it seems to be "on target" otherwise!*



Thank you very much for the link bubblegum, and I'm glad all of you like the site.


I just wanted to take a quick second to address the NFL HD issue: The problem here originates with our data provider and their software's lack of ability to assign the "HDTV flag" to regionally broadcast NFL games. I contacted them about this several weeks back, and I just received word this past week that a fix will be in place by early December. Rather late in the season, yes ... but it's coming 


Again, I'm glad you like the site. Please let me know if you have any ideas for improving it ...


Cheers,


- M. Shane Sturgeon


----------



## Rijax

Shane,


HDTV Magazine is an Ohio production? Cool!


It is my intention to make a donation. I believe in supporting sites and programs that I find really do provide a worthwhile service. My first impression is that HDTV Mag is one of those sites. I'd just like to wait a few weeks to be sure the site lives up to that first impression.


Thank you for explaining the problem with NFL games' HDTV flag. Hopefully it will be resolved on schedule.


Thanks again, and kudos for a very helpful site.


----------



## mssturgeon




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rijax_
> *
> 
> HDTV Magazine is an Ohio production? Cool!
> *



HDTV Magazine is actually the brainchild of Dale Cripps, who has run the publication from Alsea, Oregon for many, many years. He's regarded by many to be one of the founding fathers of HDTV here in the U.S. I had the pleasure to work with him over the past couple years putting together this program guide.


So while HDTV Magazine is not an Ohio production, the Program Guide (aka Grid Guide) most certainly is, at least from a development standpoint.


Your support is definitely appreciated.


- M. Shane Sturgeon


----------



## Rijax

Oh well. The magazine may not be an Ohio production, but apparently YOU are.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Was anyone able to receive WOIO yesterday afternoon or this afternoon either through cable or especially OTA? I was looking forward to the SEC game yesterday (that was supposedly beautiful) and the Browns game this afternoon. But here in Medina, I could only manage about 10% signal strength, and that could just be background noise.
> 
> 
> It's so hit and miss here on that channel. One day the signal strength is about 90% and the next it's next to nil. Is it just me?*



I watched the Auburn-Georgia game on Saturday and the Brown-Steelers game yesterday with no problem(OTA). Since I'm much further away(SE of Akron) than you, I suggest you check your equipment and wiring. Unless you live in a deep valley or have severe multipath issues, you should be getting a solid signal with just a small antenna on the roof.

Steve


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *I watched the Auburn-Georgia game on Saturday and the Brown-Steelers game yesterday with no problem(OTA). Since I'm much further away(SE of Akron) than you, I suggest you check your equipment and wiring. Unless you live in a deep valley or have severe multipath issues, you should be getting a solid signal with just a small antenna on the roof.
> 
> Steve*



Same here, in northwest Akron... no problems with WOIO-DT's OTA signal either on Saturday or Sunday. The Browns game was a bit painful to watch, but that had nothing to do with signal or picture quality










If anything, WOIO-DT seems a bit stronger in the past week or so. I know they were doing work to their antenna...maybe it really has improved. I'm just using an indoor antenna. Of course, since it's VHF, it requires a bit of moving of the aerials, but I have no problem getting it in the proper position. (Adelphia! Raycom! Get it in gear already!)


Shane, thanks for showing up here! I will let you know if there are any improvements I can think of...but right now, it's fantastic. Thanks for addressing the NFL games issue and letting us know a "fix is on the way".


----------



## grayta

I was able to pick up WOIO yesterday using an indoor amplified VHF antenna (Jensen 930), so the signal must have been pretty strong. However, I wish TWC NEO would work things out with Ratcom and pick up WOIO so I don't have to stick an antenna up to get the AFC games!!


----------



## ZManCartFan

Thanks for all the replies. It's definitely a problem on my end based on the comments. I've had an antenna over my attic for almost two years now, and other than the crappy Channel 3 signal that everyone complains about, WOIO has been the only one that gives me problems. I can pull in all the other Cleveland DT stations with 85-90% strength, but WOIO fluctuates between 90% and 0% all the time.


The strange thing is that it's not a quick flutter of signal strength. It's a day by day thing. Some days and times the signal is extremely watchable and others it's zero all day. I had always just chalked it up to a poor station that wasn't broadcasting all the time.


The tower is in the same general location of all the other Cleveland stations, right? It's over by the Parma farm, I think. I've been able to just leave the antenna pointed northeast from here since day 1 without any other problems. Any suggestions as to what could cause this type of signal fluctuation?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *The tower is in the same general location of all the other Cleveland stations, right? It's over by the Parma farm, I think. I've been able to just leave the antenna pointed northeast from here since day 1 without any other problems. Any suggestions as to what could cause this type of signal fluctuation?*



I'd like to introduce one piece of information that might be vital here: WOIO-DT, like WKYC-DT, is on the VHF band. WOIO's digital channel is 10, and WKYC's is 2. 10 is a better channel for digital broadcasting than 2, by far, but it still means you're using the VHF elements of your antenna instead of the UHF ones you're using for the other stations in the market.


So, when you're doing your moving and adjusting, pay attention to the VHF elements...if you can adjust or move them separately, somehow, it might get you WOIO with better clarity. To get WOIO-DT with my indoor amplified antenna, I have to move the VHF aerials into a specific configuration that basically gets more visibility out my loft windows.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by grayta_
> *I was able to pick up WOIO yesterday using an indoor amplified VHF antenna (Jensen 930), so the signal must have been pretty strong. However, I wish TWC NEO would work things out with Ratcom and pick up WOIO so I don't have to stick an antenna up to get the AFC games!!*



Is WOW (Wild Open West) the only multichannel provider in the market that has an agreement with WOIO/WUAB?


I know for sure Adelphia and Time Warner do not, and I'm pretty sure Cox and Comcast, the other two major cable operators in the Cleveland/Akron/Canton TV market, do not as well.


----------



## Rijax

I'm not sure what you mean by "multichannel provider," but I have Cox HD, and I get both WOIO and WUAB HD.


----------



## Inundated

"Multichannel provider" is a broader term than just "cable company", it includes such things as "in-house" cable companies in large apartment complexes, campus cable systems and microwave companies that provide cable channels via over-air antennas. (Whew!)


OK, Cox carries 19/43...Comcast?


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *"Multichannel provider" is a broader term than just "cable company", it includes such things as "in-house" cable companies in large apartment complexes, campus cable systems and microwave companies that provide cable channels via over-air antennas. (Whew!)
> 
> 
> OK, Cox carries 19/43...Comcast?*



Comcast---No 19/43


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WOIO's digital channel is 10, and WKYC's is 2. 10 is a better channel for digital broadcasting than 2, by far, but it still means you're using the VHF elements of your antenna instead of the UHF ones you're using for the other stations in the market.
> *



But are the antennae in the same general location? I get WKYC ok with the existing setup. I would think that if I can get channel 2, which is weaker and lower, I should be able to get channel 10 with the same arrangement assuming that the towers are in the same general location.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *But are the antennae in the same general location? I get WKYC ok with the existing setup. I would think that if I can get channel 2, which is weaker and lower, I should be able to get channel 10 with the same arrangement assuming that the towers are in the same general location.*



antennaweb.org will answer all of your questions. Just type in your address and you'll get compass headings, distance, and signal strength of every channel. It is a great resource. It could be you have a multipath problem. If you switch over to analog channel 19(transmitter in same location), do you have a ghost in the image? If so, that could well be your problem.

Steve


----------



## frank10

I just got a fusin QAM card and I'm trying to get it going. I tried using it with wowway and it picked up a number of stations, but without showing video. One preview station did work properly. Is anyone using a non-wowway provided box to pick up HD stations? If so, what are you able to get?


----------



## hookbill

I'm not getting WNEW in HD on Adelphia. You guys with OTA, are you seeing any problems?


----------



## hookbill

Came back on a couple of minutes ago. Good thing, Lost is on tonight.


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately, you called it WNEW, so we wouldn't have been much help anyway...


----------



## Inundated

Since he said "Lost", I assume he means WEWS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Since he said "Lost", I assume he means WEWS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah, channel 5. Geez all these call letters I can't remember.


----------



## cristo28

If all I have is a DVI Input on my TV, will a HDMI - DVI kit work at this time for the 8300? Is the recording time the same on both units? Overall is it worth myh time to switch?


Thanks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *If all I have is a DVI Input on my TV, will a HDMI - DVI kit work at this time for the 8300? Is the recording time the same on both units? Overall is it worth myh time to switch?
> 
> 
> Thanks*



Question 1: Yes.


Question 2: Yes.


Question 3: I think so. I've heard that if you have a CRT television that you won't see much difference between component and HDMI which is a digital sound and picture, but I have a CRT television and I felt that not only did my HD channels looked better, my channels that are analog also looked better. Also assuming you have an 8000 unit I find that scheduled recordings are more reliable then then 8000 unit. Finally, and I think this is the biggest selling point you can set the 8300 to Auto/HDMI and it will pick the correct format. Just when you set it up choose the advance set up and select all formats. That way when you change channels you won't have to manually change formats.


Keep in mind that when you first get the 8300 you may have to wait a few days for an update. While waiting you will have to do the set up each time you turn the unit off. If you leave the unit on it will shut off in the middle of the night anyway. It took about 4 days for me to get this update. Be patient, it's worth it.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *antennaweb.org will answer all of your questions. Just type in your address and you'll get compass headings, distance, and signal strength of every channel. It is a great resource. It could be you have a multipath problem. If you switch over to analog channel 19(transmitter in same location), do you have a ghost in the image? If so, that could well be your problem.
> 
> Steve*



Thanks for the advice. Antennaweb lists Channel 19 (10) the same as all the others in Cleveland. It should be coming in just fine. So I checked for ghosting, and yes, there is a _slight_ ghosting of the image. Otherwise, it's pretty clear. Makes me think, though, that you're right about the multipath issues. That would explain why it comes in at 90% some days and 10% others.


But what can I do to correct it? The antenna is in the attic over my garage, and it would be an almost impossible task to do any large-scale adjustment. Are there any simple tricks to try?


Thanks for the help.


----------



## Gbluhm

Is anyone able to receive the CRRS audio-only feed on WVIZ?


----------



## cristo28

Thanks HB, does anyone know where I can buy locally the DVI - HDMI conversition piece? And has most local Adelphia stores have them I am in the North Olmsted area?


Thanks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Thanks HB, does anyone know where I can buy locally the DVI - HDMI conversition piece? And has most local Adelphia stores have them I am in the North Olmsted area?
> 
> 
> Thanks*



I don't know of any local stores that carry an inexpesive one, perhaps someone else does. But it just so happens I have one and I'd be willing to talk about giving you a deal on it. PM me if interested. I'm not a dealer, I bought one a while ago for my 8000 in the false assumption that they were going to turn that port on soon.


Best Buy and CC have Monster Cables for 119.00. Ebay is where I got mine. They are around 15 to 20 bucks there.


As far as whether an Adelphia near you has them, that is where the adventure begins.


----------



## Bill Harrison

I spent ATLEAST 4 hours on the phone today attempting to get an HDTV box with active firewire ports. First, I talked to 2 people who insisted there was no such thing. Argued with me. I told them its also referred to as IEEE1394. Argued some more.


Finally, tried another area. Same scenario.


Asked for management.


Same.


Finally they said, sorry, can't give it to you. Doesn't exist. I pointed out that by law, it does exist, and they had to give me one. They said, no, that law was reapealed. I directed them to the FCC website. They read the law. Said they'd call me back.


2 hours later, i got a call, and suddenly, they had the box, and are bringing it out next week.


Lol, it should NOT be this hard to deal with someone in a FIELD they are supposed to be dealing in!


Blah


Just a stupid rant... finally got an SA3250HD on the way.


Lol


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *But what can I do to correct it? The antenna is in the attic over my garage, and it would be an almost impossible task to do any large-scale adjustment. Are there any simple tricks to try?*



Good question. I'm guessing that if you could move the antenna around in the attic, you might be able to find a "sweet spot". And what might be a silly question: have you tried hooking up an indoor antenna? I'm serious... rabbit ears or amplified rabbit ears. I don't know if it would do ANY good, but maybe you have a spot downstairs - aimed out a window aiming roughly northeast from you towards Parma - that would have less multipath interference.


You aren't THAT much farther from Parma than I am in northwest Akron, and I'm getting 19 with a second-floor window shot with an indoor antenna. I wouldn't spend a lot of time or money on this, but if you have one lying around, it can't hurt if maybe a different angle would help you.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gbluhm_
> *Is anyone able to receive the CRRS audio-only feed on WVIZ?*



Is this on the analog SAP channel or somewhere else? My TV won't let me go into SAP with 25...


Update: I used "Enable SAP" with my Adelphia remote on the 8000HD (Settings button), and sure enough, there's what I assume is CRRS! Sounds like someone in a radio reading service at any rate...


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *have you tried hooking up an indoor antenna?*



He, he. I'm chuckling to myself because two years ago when I moved in here, I tried about 10 different indoor antennas. I'm sure my wife would love the opportunity to remind me about all of them including the one we affectionately called the "grasshopper." Well, at least it was affectionate for me.


I was unable to get anything other than passing signals with any form of indoor antenna. I eventually settled for the 120" Radio Shack monster over the garage. That made my wife happy, and it made me happy that I didn't have to adjust the dad-gum thing every time I wanted to change channels.


I'm actually on the southern-most border of the city of Medina. I'm not sure how many miles as the crow flies I am from the towers, but it's just far enough that the indoor ones don't work.


If I had about two more feet between the rafters I would love to mount the antenna upside down in the attic with a rotor. From here I should be able to get the Mansfield station and a couple of others. But, as it is, I'll probably climb up there again one of these days and just move the thing a couple of inches. Hopefully that will help.


Thanks again for the help.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gbluhm_
> *Is anyone able to receive the CRRS audio-only feed on WVIZ?*



Yes. I'm getting it on the SAP channel of the OTA analog 25.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *I'm actually on the southern-most border of the city of Medina. I'm not sure how many miles as the crow flies I am from the towers, but it's just far enough that the indoor ones don't work.*



Yep, it also sounds like you're somewhat further away from the Parma antenna farm than I am, and you probably have some terrain issues going there, too! I get all the major Cleveland/Akron market stations with a decent, clear picture OTA with an analog set (except for 3, but that's another story) and an indoor antenna, so I probably have a better shot at Parma than you do.


Good luck! Maybe if you get 19 moved enough to overcome ghosting, DT 10 will have less multipathing. One other option could be in your future - supposedly the newer 5th generation OTA digital receivers are MUCH better at dealing with multipath interference. They aren't out yet, but could be by the end of the year or early 2005.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *One other option could be in your future - supposedly the newer 5th generation OTA digital receivers are MUCH better at dealing with multipath interference. They aren't out yet, but could be by the end of the year or early 2005.*



Perhaps if they put one in a DirecTiVO....


----------



## intermod

quote:Originally posted by Gbluhm

Is anyone able to receive the CRRS audio-only feed on WVIZ?


YES!!! On my set it maps out as 26-10. It used to say CRRS on call sign block but I noticed today that now its just empty. I get WVIZ-DT at a solid

60 here.


Welcome to the group.


Dan


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Perhaps if they put one in a DirecTiVO....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Ah, that might be your problem right there. The HD DTivo is a marvelous piece of work, but the OTA tuner in it is not known for its reception. I've seen dozens of messages from folks who have complained that they are no longer able to receive DT stations they could receive with other STBs they had before.


Then, I guess, your hope is that Hughes/TiVo/D* puts a 5th generation receiver in a future HD DTivo.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *YES!!! On my set it maps out as 26-10. It used to say CRRS on call sign block but I noticed today that now its just empty. I get WVIZ-DT at a solid 60 here.*



They map out the CRRS audio feed as a DT subchannel? What's on the video for it?


And you do realize you're one of a handful of people who can get the current top-of-the-building WVIZ-DT signal with any strength, right?







I wonder how close they are to going on their existing tower, in the battle with Infinity. And as noted up here, we'll be getting WVIZ-DT on Adelphia in the next week and a half or so...


(Adelphia subscribers, note: you CAN get the CRRS audio feed on the SAP side of WVIZ's analog cable channel, 2...you have to go into Settings on the cable box and enable SAP. Trying to enable it on your TV will do no good.)


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *They map out the CRRS audio feed as a DT subchannel? What's on the video for it?
> 
> 
> >>>>>>>>> Nothing, Nice black screen.
> 
> 
> And you do realize you're one of a handful of people who can get the current top-of-the-building WVIZ-DT signal with any strength, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how close they are to going on their existing tower, in the battle with Infinity. And as noted up here, we'll be getting WVIZ-DT on Adelphia in the next week and a half or so...
> 
> 
> >>>>> Yes!! Since I first noticed it back in August They have been solid.
> 
> The CRRS audio is in dolby on 26-10, Maybe they could slap some music
> 
> on that for the holidays, provided it wouldnt degrade the video on 26-1
> 
> which is Awesome.
> 
> 
> (Adelphia subscribers, note: you CAN get the CRRS audio feed on the SAP side of WVIZ's analog cable channel, 2...you have to go into Settings on the cable box and enable SAP. Trying to enable it on your TV will do no good.)*


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Ah, that might be your problem right there.
> 
> 
> Then, I guess, your hope is that Hughes/TiVo/D* puts a 5th generation receiver in a future HD DTivo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Wish it was my problem. I couldn't find a drooling smiley on here.


My trust-old HD200 has been working fine, and honestly its reception is above midpack, I believe.


But, you're right. My _hope_ is that they put the new tuner in a future DirecTiVO. Or maybe I should say my _dream_.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Thanks for the advice. Antennaweb lists Channel 19 (10) the same as all the others in Cleveland. It should be coming in just fine. So I checked for ghosting, and yes, there is a slight ghosting of the image. Otherwise, it's pretty clear. Makes me think, though, that you're right about the multipath issues. That would explain why it comes in at 90% some days and 10% others.
> 
> 
> But what can I do to correct it? The antenna is in the attic over my garage, and it would be an almost impossible task to do any large-scale adjustment. Are there any simple tricks to try?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.*



Zman,

Your problem might be that you have too large an antenna. Since larger antennas are more sensitive they pick up the weaker multipath signals much better than smaller antennas. Larger antennas are usually much more directional than smaller antennas and often require a rotor because of that fact. If I were you I would try and find the smallest antenna that gets the job done. Bigger is definitely not always better when it comes to an antenna.

Steve


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Zman,
> 
> Your problem might be that you have too large an antenna. Since larger antennas are more sensitive they pick up the weaker multipath signals much better than smaller antennas. Larger antennas are usually much more directional than smaller antennas and often require a rotor because of that fact. If I were you I would try and find the smallest antenna that gets the job done. Bigger is definitely not always better when it comes to an antenna.
> 
> Steve*



Yeah, maybe you're right. But the good news is that I get Channel 3 at about 85 to 90% in Medina.










Overall, I'm relatively happy with the antenna. I suppose if I have to sacrifice a channel, I can live without 19. I think I might just poke my head up into the attic one of these days, though. I'm hoping that just a slight adjustment will help.


Thanks, everybody. Something tells me we're on to something here.


----------



## intermod

If you just have the tip of a reflector (the longest element at the back of

the yagi) snagging a joist, just bend the thing as required for clearance.


Antenna's in general have NO resale value and many Yagi designs don't

even have a reflector. Boom length and directors are where its at with Yagi's.

Plus with the influence of attic stuff you really have no idea where the main lobe is pointing. They get SKeWED by attic junk. You could probably just cut it off and not notice much differance.


You can bend the director back or down to get he job done. As long as it's in your attic no one will laugh.


Dan


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Yeah, maybe you're right. But the good news is that I get Channel 3 at about 85 to 90% in Medina.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I live in Medina too, and I just have a small (65" boom length) antenna in the attic. All Cleveland digital stations come in at 100% except 3, which is at about 90, and of course 25, which is transmitting at only 1kW with essentially no antenna height. I have a second cheap UHF-only antenna pointed at Akron to pick up 49.


----------



## frank10

Those are phenominal signal strengths. I'm only a few miles away and I'm not getting anything close to that. I get 80+ if I find my sweet spot with my indoor antenna. I may have to eventually do an attic mount.


----------



## hookbill

I generally put on Fox News in the mornings. This morning I noticed it was in high def. I'm not sure if the entire broadcast was, I noticed around 7:45 that their in studio shots were in HD. When they were broadcasting taped pieces they had bars on the side, similar to what ESPN does.


Hope this is the start of something. Hopefully channel 3 and 5 will follow. Since I get my HD from Adelphia I have no idea about channel 19.


----------



## paule123

Channel 3? The one that's "first in HDTV" according to their screen bug? The one that had an all-HD ad promoting their newsteam during the Olympics but no HD in the studio? ROFLMAO.


Judging by the PQ of 19/43's newscast, they look like a low budget operation, I wouldn't be too hopeful. The one with Tiffany what's-her-name's blondeness just blaring on the screen. I can't stay on that news program too long for fear of burning in my plasma.


----------



## paule123

Yep, the Fox Noon news is hi-def (at least in studio). They're doing a nice job of mixing the 4:3 material in.


Way to go Fox / WJW !!


----------



## Shark73

Does anyone have Cox cable? If you do have it, is the DVI port active on the HD boxes?


Thanks for the help!


Jim


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Yep, the Fox Noon news is hi-def (at least in studio). They're doing a nice job of mixing the 4:3 material in.
> 
> 
> Way to go Fox / WJW !!*



Their on location shots were also HD this morning. Segments like Kicking it with Kenny and other on location shots were in HD.


And I agree they diid a good job of mixing too.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Yeah, Fox looked pretty good this morning. I'm impressed. Anybody know if this was the first day for it? I never get to turn on anything but the bedroom TV in the morning. The HD set is usually showing PBSKids until long after I'm at work.


Also, anybody else notice the audio mix being a little off? Seemed like some stuff was significantly louder than others. And the band they had closing out the show could've used a better mix!


----------



## hookbill

I have it on every morning so if it was HD prior I would have noticed. I'm doing stuff in the morning so I couldn't really "study" it, but from my point of view everything appeared fine.


----------



## Inundated

I'm watching Fox 8 now, and it does appear they're officially in HD in the studio. They looked pretty good even in SD before, but it's nice to see a local station finally doing news in HD!


In the 4:3 material, Fox 8 has a bar on each side with the station name on one side, and "HD" in the other...ala ESPN-HD.


At least on my (actually SD) set, Fox 8 has been the best looking digital signal in local programming, even before turning on HD in the studio. 3 and 5 are a notch lower, about equal, and we've already dumped on 19/43...


----------



## Inundated

It turns out Fox 8 bought 3 720p HD studio cameras back in 2001:

http://www.ikegami.com/press/press94.html 


And they just bought an HD graphics system from Chyron back in October of this year, which was probably the reason they can now go HD on the newscasts...

http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/R...ArticleID=8984


----------



## Eph

Same problems with Comcast in NorCal. Which FCC reg. did you quote?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bill Harrison_
> *Lol, it should NOT be this hard to deal with someone in a FIELD they are supposed to be dealing in!*



Congratulations to you!


TWC NEO hasn't usually had a reputation for being clueless. I'm with Adelphia, and I'd almost give my first born (if I had one) to switch to TWC if I could.


If the above conversation were with Adelphia, they'd have cut off your service because they didn't like you.


----------



## alfbinet

What happend to 31-1 is it now 8-1HD?


----------



## Inundated

Fox 8 has always been 8-1 to me...my STB has passed PSIP from it from the day I brought it home. I haven't seen 31-1 anywhere...


----------



## hookbill

Just a reminder....in 4 days Adelphia is delivering 2 more HD channels. At least that's the rumor, PBS and Discovery.


----------



## Inundated

And the PBS will be WVIZ-DT 26, which will be a second PBS for me (I get WEAO-DT 50 over the air). I assume Adelphia will only be carrying the HD feed on 710 (channel number they'll use, I believe).


Does WVIZ put out anything else besides the HD feed, an SD simulcast and the CRRS audio on DT 26? I'll assume I'll be able to get that whenever they manage to get permission to move it to the main WVIZ analog tower...


----------



## Bill Harrison

Well, its not over till the fat lady sings apparently. Got a call wed morning from the "head of operations" at time warner NE Ohio. Tells me, sorry, we can't give you that box, because you don't have a tv with firewire ports. I said I am going to be using the firewire ports to connect to my DVR (AKA PC, but will be using it as a DVR) and he said thats not possible, and i can't get the box. I explained to him the FCC Regulation on the subject, and he said that TWC makes its own rules concerning those items. Last time i checked the fcc regulated, not the other way around! Well, needless to say, I contacted the FCC, who pointed out that Time warner was obligated to give me that box AT MY REQUEST, irregardless of my usage, per the law. Unfortunately they said they have little in the way of enforcement, and that was up to my local franchising authority, who in the case is the Akron Mayors office (akron ohio).



I have a call into them, and talked with a gentleman who said in reality they have little in the way of actual sanctions to MAKE them do as they should, but that he would contact them and atleast put some pressure on them. He said if they still refuse, while they will be in violation, there is little that can actually be done.


HERE is my rant: TWC says they have the box, but they are being ABSOLUTELY beligerant about giving it to me. Why is this? I am very curious. I can't imagine it costs alot more than a 3150 which is what they want to give me. So I doubt price is a factor. Last time I checked, customer service was important? They have the box, I am specifically asking for it, so why not give it too me? I have shown them that they are legally obligated too, yet they still just say sorry, cant bring it out unless you have a tv with firewire.


I will keep everyone posted as to how this unfolds.... Now its to the point where its less the actual fact i wanted the box, and now more about the principal! They have been particularly rude to me, and I just don't quite get why, as I have been very nice on the phone, explaining what I needed and why. I am VERY tempted to call and have all my service turned off, unfortunately I am tied to roadrunner


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by alfbinet_
> *What happend to 31-1 is it now 8-1HD?*



Fox in Cleveland uses the digital position "31" and is remapped by most ota receivers as 8-1.


----------



## CPanther95

Threads Merged.


----------



## Inundated

As noted by hookbill in the NFL on FOX thread:


Adelphia cable is having major problems with the three local network affiliates HD feeds it carries (WKYC/WEWS/WJW). I'm getting anything from no picture (grey screen) to black splotched incomplete pictures. Sound, oddly enough, even with the grey screen, is fine.


The OTA HD feeds from all three stations are fine. It's only Adelphia.


The non-pay channels right next to 3/5/8's HD feeds - HDNet and HDMovies - are seen, but having significant breakup problems. ESPNHD (772) and any channels above 772 are fine, with no breakups.


It's long been rumored that Adelphia is adding WVIZ-DT's HD feed tomorrow on channel 710...it would not be a stretch to wonder if this is related.


----------



## panjj

Ditto on the major HD problems yesterday. Also, confirmed okay on OTA. You mention one additional HD service possibly coming today. Any news on additional stations? (especially CBS) Thanks for any info.


----------



## hookbill

I was disappointed to see no WVIZ as of yet. The other station rumoured to be coming on today is Discovery HD.


I've noticed in the past that this usually happens on the first of the month.


As far as CBS goes....don't hold your breath.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I was disappointed to see no WVIZ as of yet. The other station rumoured to be coming on today is Discovery HD.
> 
> 
> I've noticed in the past that this usually happens on the first of the month.
> 
> 
> As far as CBS goes....don't hold your breath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I'm guessing that it didn't happen today (WVIZ/Discovery) because they haven't figured out how to do it without screwing up 3/5/8 and HDNet/HDMovies yet.


----------



## jtscherne

Looks like they're coming... Both appeared in the program guide in the last few minutes...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Looks like they're coming... Both appeared in the program guide in the last few minutes...*



Yep, looks like it. Nothing actually being broadcast as of now, I'm just getting the gray screen. Looks like it is going to happen soon though.


----------



## jtscherne

They're on!


----------



## hookbill

No guide data, but yes they certainly are on. And wow, that Discovery HD sure looked good! Looks like they had some kind of date/reality show on and pq was dazziling.


----------



## Inundated

I'm now officially getting both of 'em on Adelphia:


710 - PBSHD (WVIZ-DT)

776 - DSCHD (Discovery HD Theater)


Both are looking really good on this end! I do have guide data on both.


Speaking of which, Adelphia has fixed the guide data for WKYC's HD feed on 703...it was listing "Off Air" for any shows that were not from the NBC network. I can take credit for it, as I nudged Channel 3's Mike Szabo in engineering, and he talked to 'em today


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'm now officially getting both of 'em on Adelphia:
> 
> 
> 710 - PBSHD (WVIZ-DT)
> 
> 776 - DSCHD (Discovery HD Theater)
> 
> 
> Both are looking really good on this end! I do have guide data on both.
> 
> 
> Speaking of which, Adelphia has fixed the guide data for WKYC's HD feed on 703...it was listing "Off Air" for any shows that were not from the NBC network. I can take credit for it, as I nudged Channel 3's Mike Szabo in engineering, and he talked to 'em today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yes, I see the guide data on channel 703! It's about time. However I'm still not receiving guide data for 710 or 776. In addition, I have no new guide data for Sunday evening or Monday. I've even rebooted my machine and still no data.


Is everyone else getting their data ok?


----------



## jtscherne

I'm in Shaker Heights and I'm not getting guide data for the new HD channels either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *I'm in Shaker Heights and I'm not getting guide data for the new HD channels either.*



How about your future data on all channels? I'm not seeing anything beyond Sunday 7:00 pm?


I've reported it to Adelphia, but an additional call probably wouldn't hurt. Also the data for HD NET has been incorrect during the day.


----------



## Inundated

I'm getting guide data for the two new HD channels with no problem. I'm not sure it matters for this, but I'm in northwest Akron.


I have guide data out to Monday night/Tuesday morning (12/6-12/7) at midnight. I don't know how far it's supposed to go out...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'm getting guide data for the two new HD channels with no problem. I'm not sure it matters for this, but I'm in northwest Akron.
> 
> 
> I have guide data out to Monday night/Tuesday morning (12/6-12/7) at midnight. I don't know how far it's supposed to go out...*



I went to Adelphia in Macedonia because I was pretty sure I was going to get a run around on this. On their sets the guide data was only up until Sunday. They said they would call someone.


Also I sent an email to someone in Adelphia who helped before and she said she would forward it to the proper people. But for now the problem is not fixed. Looks like your getting different guide data, probably because your cable line up is a little different.


----------



## Rich Klim

Hi,


I live in Twinsburg, Wineguard 7032 Antenna in the attic, 15 db preamp, RG6 in, 2 set spletter with a MYHD 120 HD PC card and a Sony SAT HD300.



I cannot recieve 8.1 on a regular basis on the SAT HD300. All other channels including Akron come in fine. My sig on the HD Cleveland stations is 70% on 3 to 92 on 5.1


My HD 120 shows a signal strength of 60-65% on 8.1.


On the HD300 it goes from a "good" signal to no signal


I have done resets, NVRAM resets, changed cabeling, no luck.


Any ideas?? Anyone else having this problem??


Thanks in advance for any responses


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Also I sent an email to someone in Adelphia who helped before and she said she would forward it to the proper people. But for now the problem is not fixed. Looks like your getting different guide data, probably because your cable line up is a little different.*



I was under the impression that all of Adelphia/NE Ohio was on the same lineup now. I could be wrong. I know at one time, the Adelphia section served out of that Macedonia office (the old Western Reserve system) had a radically different lineup...



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rich Klim_
> *I cannot recieve 8.1 on a regular basis on the SAT HD300. All other channels including Akron come in fine. My sig on the HD Cleveland stations is 70% on 3 to 92 on 5.1*



That's quite odd. WJW-DT is not usually a problem child OTA. WKYC-DT is, and as you see, it's lower than the others.


I could only suggest nudging the antenna around a little. I seem to remember that WEWS-DT and WJW-DT are at slightly different directions for my indoor antenna. Most of the stations are in the "Parma Antenna Farm", but we're talking an occasional nudge an inch or two one direction or another when I've had to do it.


One other note, if it matters: WKYC-DT is on VHF, as is WOIO-DT...everybody else in the market is on UHF. Keep this in mind when adjusting your antenna.


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia's lineup is still different from place to place. For example, CBS is channel 4 in Cleveland Heights, but channel 10 in Twinsburg. There are other differences too.


----------



## SKoprowski

Has anyone noticed that NEOH TWC in Canton has now scrambled some HD channels that were not scrambled before- liked HDNET and TNT-HD? Noticed this today.


Scott


----------



## handsworth

My annonymous but reliable source has told me that the SA8300HD will be getting a software upgrade shortly, possibly tonite(11/30). SARA ver. 1.85.3.1 All I know is that the HDMI will be enabled. Unfortunately they could not get the HDMI to DVI adapter to work. Also on this box the components go dead when HDMI is in use. Rf and composites are OK.


BTW, I continue to thank them for the accurate inside tips. (PBS and Discovery)


Going forward, NBC Universal (Bravo), TNT, and NBA Network are on the table. ESPN2HD should be a done deal. That was done with the original contract. Only God knows what the deal is with CBS. I also got wind that Regional Sports Networks talking to Adelphia. Hopefully by end of 1st quarter 2005, this will be one hell of a HD lineup.










Also, Adelphia northeastern Ohio has 11 different lineups


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Going forward, NBC Universal (Bravo), TNT, and NBA Network are on the table. ESPN2HD should be a done deal. That was done with the original contract. Only God knows what the deal is with CBS. I also got wind that Regional Sports Networks talking to Adelphia. Hopefully by end of 1st quarter 2005, this will be one hell of a HD lineup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Wow! That's all good news, and all what I was looking for. NBA Network means the HD games that get blacked out currently on INHD, right? And it's good to see TNT, ESPN2 and Bravo/NBC Universal, too.


Is the RSN Fox Sports Ohio? I haven't gotten wind that they're doing any games in HD yet...would be nice if they could somehow put up some Cavs games the rest of this season in HD...



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> Also, Adelphia northeastern Ohio has 11 different lineups*


*
*I did not know that. I believe they at least did some consolidation within the Cleveland market proper - the former Cablevision systems and the Western Reserve systems up by Macedonia. For one, the local programming channel used to be 35, and now it's 15 everywhere...


I'm on the former Cablevision system in western Summit County.


----------



## bassguitarman

I noticed NCIS wasnt HD last night. More problems for WOIO


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *My annonymous but reliable source has told me that the SA8300HD will be getting a software upgrade shortly, possibly tonite(11/30). SARA ver. 1.85.3.1 All I know is that the HDMI will be enabled. Unfortunately they could not get the HDMI to DVI adapter to work. Also on this box the components go dead when HDMI is in use. Rf and composites are OK.
> *



The HDMI is already enabled as I have reported on these boards in the past.


In chatting with someone in another area he mentioned some differences on his settings, so perhaps that is what is coming.


Still no new program data!! Now I have no data for Sun evening, Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I did not know that. I believe they at least did some consolidation within the Cleveland market proper - the former Cablevision systems and the Western Reserve systems up by Macedonia. For one, the local programming channel used to be 35, and now it's 15 everywhere...
> 
> 
> I'm on the former Cablevision system in western Summit County.*



Well, that makes two of us. I knew there were some differences because when you punch in my zip, 44202 on Titan it automatically brings up Adelphia, Macedonia line up. However If I use Chagrin Falls zip, 44023 I get the proper line up for where I live (Bainbridge).


On the Adelphia, Macedonia lineup channel 19, WOIO is ON channel 10. On my cable it's on channel 4. You would think they would want to make it simple and get everyone on the same page.


Naw, this is Adelphia...that would make too much sense.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bassguitarman_
> *I noticed NCIS wasnt HD last night. More problems for WOIO*



It was HD the last 10 or 15 minutes. My guess is they were probably having problems with their encoder. It appeared that were trying to get it working during the course of the program without any success till almost the end.


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *The HDMI is already enabled as I have reported on these boards in the past.*



I kept seeing your posts, but have not talked to anyone that has it enabled. Not even at my house. My person also took a box to a local retailer and tried it on 3 different sets and got nada. Are you Adelphia? If so what SARA version does your box have. They tested the new version yesterday and it finally worked for them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *I kept seeing your posts, but have not talked to anyone that has it enabled. Not even at my house. My person also took a box to a local retailer and tried it on 3 different sets and got nada. Are you Adelphia? If so what SARA version does your box have. They tested the new version yesterday and it finally worked for them.*



Well, if your looking at my posts you know that I'm with Adelphia. I complain about them constantly.







As I have responded back to YOU in the past I have Sara 1.85.14.2. I picked up the 8300 shortly after YOUR post when you told us that it had an HDMI port. I went down to Adelphia and picked one up a couple of days after that and hooked up my HDMI port. It worked from day 1.


I can't explain about what you observed. And as I reported earlier today my Sara has not changed, although it appeared something may have been downloaded as my screen started on the Adelphia Information Channel (1) this morning, however that could also be attributed to the power outage we had and a reboot.


Also you said that there was a problem with DVI TO HDMI. Is that what they were hooking up? Because the back of my set is HDMI so I use a regular HDMI connector. It doesn't make sense that a DVI to HDMI adapter wouldn't work but I'll take your word for it. Please take mine. I have no reason to fib.


----------



## handsworth

Thanks hookbill,

no reason to doubt you, but can't figure out why ours does not work with the same version.. I will be taking a box over to the retailer (Audio Cr**t )tommorrow to try it again.


----------



## duckdogger

Living in Rocky River with Cox, we have all the networks - except Fox. We also receive UPN HD (I believe in name only) ESPNHD, INHD, Discovery HD, PBS HD, Bravo HD, and HBO HD (I don't subscribe to Showtime). Appears NBC is the leader in volume of HD programing with CBS followed by ABC.


Fox was to have started on 12/1 after their showing most of the playoffs and all of the World Series. Now nothing, but as a national network, does Fox even braodcast that much in HD - aside from 24? On 12/15, Starz and Cinemax HD will be added to the lineup.


We have a 4:3 32 inch Wega HD and the picture is very, very crisp for HD programming - its in our bedroom. Haven't hooked the 5.1 up yet as wife is doing a push-back on the subwoofer lurking near the ficus tree. Glad I don't have to fight the OTA battles you guys do. What a painful and frustrating life that must be.


It is true that Sam Adams does appear to taste better while watching HD football on ESPN Sunday evening.


----------



## intermod

duckdogger said,


" Glad I don't have to fight the OTA battles you guys do. What a painful and frustrating life that must be."



Yikes!!! It's not all that bad.


Welcome to the group.


/Dan


----------



## Inundated

hookbill - for what it's worth, the same lineup problem happens when you plug those ZIP Codes into Adelphia's very own channel lineup page:

http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entert...l_line_ups.cfm 


44202 pulls up what I assume is the Adelphia Macedonia lineup. Among other things, it adds three local channels that we don't have: WDLI/17 and WOAC/67 out of Canton (nominally), religious/TBN and Shop at Home respectively, and LPTVer WAOH-LP 29 out of Akron, which it lists under the old W29AI calls and says "formerly WAOH", which is actually the other way around!


It also has Univision's WQHS/61 on cable channel 2, where our system has WVIZ/25 on 2. Most of the other channels are scattered in different places, as well. I believe all the digital stuff, above 100, is the same on both systems.


I can tell the 44202 lineup is the old Western Reserve one...it has cable channel 9 as an access channel, which it's been ever since the days I almost did a show on it...


----------



## hookbill

Talk to a CSR at Adelphia this morning. She told me that the guide data issue is "Adelphia Wide" (except at Inundated's house).










She said it is being handled by their "headend" and they are working on it Monday thru Friday. This was also confirmed by an email I received from someone who was foolish enough to give me their real e-mail address at Adelphia.


I suppose that could mean this coming Monday thru Friday. I assume it means this week. I just hope that's not a warning that if it isn't fixed by Friday night, don't expect it to be fixed until next week.


----------



## handsworth

Thanks again hookbill, I tried the HDMI connection on my set tonite and I'll be dammed, it works. I must have missed something from the day I got it till I got my 48 hr upgrade. My apologies.


On the other hand, I have an internal document in hand from SA that says this feature will not function until SARA 1.85.3.1. This is the type of misinformation that gets passed along. You should be a beta tester for these people.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Thanks again hookbill, I tried the HDMI connection on my set tonite and I'll be dammed, it works. I must have missed something from the day I got it till I got my 48 hr upgrade. My apologies.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I have an internal document in hand from SA that says this feature will not function until SARA 1.85.3.1. This is the type of misinformation that gets passed along. You should be a beta tester for these people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



No apology necessary! I'm happy that it works. Ahhh, these little mysteries we encounter in the electronic world.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Talk to a CSR at Adelphia this morning. She told me that the guide data issue is "Adelphia Wide" (except at Inundated's house).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yes, I have the only perfect Adelphia cable box guide in the system!










No, I have problems, too. Not with the missing or mismatched stuff I've seen reported here, but my guide data only goes out to next Tuesday. So, I'd imagine they have to get that fixed (I can't remember how far it's supposed to go out on the DVRs).


For that matter, there may be mismatched stuff on some channels (HDNet was mentioned) - I just haven't noticed it.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by duckdogger_
> *
> 
> 
> Fox was to have started on 12/1 after their showing most of the playoffs and all of the World Series. Now nothing, but as a national network, does Fox even braodcast that much in HD - aside from 24?
> *



Fox did not broadcast in HD at all until September 15th (So 24 has never been broadcast in HD). Since then, almost all of their NFL games have been in HD. In addition, much of their regular programming is in HD. In fact, WJW recently began broadcasting their local news in HD. So I'd say you're missing quite a bit of HD content (especially as it compares to UPN!)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Yes, I have the only perfect Adelphia cable box guide in the system!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I have problems, too. Not with the missing or mismatched stuff I've seen reported here, but my guide data only goes out to next Tuesday. So, I'd imagine they have to get that fixed (I can't remember how far it's supposed to go out on the DVRs).
> 
> 
> For that matter, there may be mismatched stuff on some channels (HDNet was mentioned) - I just haven't noticed it.*



If what your seeing on your screen has complete data out until Tuesday, (today it should be Wednesday) then you are getting your updated data ok. Adelphia goes only 7 days out, unlike TiVo which goes I believe 28 days if I remember right.


What I am seeing on my screen is data guide out to Wednesday....but there is no data on the screen starting on Sunday night going through Wednesday. Just the channels listed and no programing.


So you see, you may well have the only perfect box on Adelphia.


----------



## hookbill

For those of us who have been having problems, Adelphia has informed me that the guide data is fixed. I checked and it's working in my area.


----------



## Inundated

You know, I never DID actually check the data past Sunday...I just noticed the date (when you go to change it) went past Sunday. Maybe there was nothing there.










I noticed late last night that the guide data when I was changing channels was blank for a while. But it seems to be OK now.


Thanks for getting on 'em about it, hookbill!


----------



## Inundated

WJW/8 went into its beautiful new HD newscast at 5 PM tonight, with no sound.







(The sound was fine until the newscast started.)


I called up their newsroom, and after I got off hold, the guy asked "have you checked your SAP setting?" After telling him I was talking about the HD signal, I just told them to tell the control room that there was "no sound on the HD newscast".


About 20 seconds after I hung up the phone...boom, there was sound!










Oh, wait...now they're back to no sound. Arrgh!


----------



## Inundated

Can someone ELSE call up FOX 8 and tell them their HD newscast is silent? I don't wanna be a pest...


216-431-8888, select the option for the newsroom and then "news tips"


----------



## hookbill

Inundated....at the time of this posting it's loud and clear.


Two suggestions: Check volume and mute.


----------



## jtscherne

No, it was definitely going on and off. Commercials were coming through loud and clear, but then no sound for the actual news broadcast.


I think they've fixed it for now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *No, it was definitely going on and off. Commercials were coming through loud and clear, but then no sound for the actual news broadcast.
> 
> 
> I think they've fixed it for now.*



Thanks for the confirmation! hookbill must think I'm nuts or something.










Yes, they fixed it at about 10 till 6, I think it was.


----------



## duckdogger

West Wing HD was silent too. The opening music theme was cool then the sounds of silence. Finally they switched the feed to a non-HD stretched and the sound was back.


I'll have to check out fox now that Cox started carrying the feed yesterday.


----------



## Inundated

You just knew things couldn't continue working without a hitch for Adelphia.


All the lower HD channels have taken a no-signal dive tonight, including 703/705/708/710 (WKYC/WEWS/WJW/WVIZ) and HDNet and HDMovies (770/771). NBGS. (Nothing but grey screen.) It's very similar to what we saw on Sunday night, before WVIZ joined the HD lineup. Just checked, and the OTA 3/5/8 DT equivalents are fine. WVIZ, of course, is an OTA no-show down here in Akron due to its pipsqueak-on-top-of-the-roof antenna.


Channels above 772 are fine (ESPNHD and above). I don't know if the HD movie channels between are affected, as I don't have them.


This is as of this writing at 11:15 PM, in case hookbill thinks I'm nuts.


----------



## Argee

What happened to the 5.1 on WKYC? I noticed last nights Joey was not in 5.1 and it usually is. ALso the audio mix on the HD signal was all fubar. The center/voice channel was mutted while the audience laugh track and musical tracks were very loud.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *You just knew things couldn't continue working without a hitch for Adelphia.
> 
> 
> All the lower HD channels have taken a no-signal dive tonight, including 703/705/708/710 (WKYC/WEWS/WJW/WVIZ) and HDNet and HDMovies (770/771). NBGS. (Nothing but grey screen.) It's very similar to what we saw on Sunday night, before WVIZ joined the HD lineup. Just checked, and the OTA 3/5/8 DT equivalents are fine. WVIZ, of course, is an OTA no-show down here in Akron due to its pipsqueak-on-top-of-the-roof antenna.
> 
> 
> Channels above 772 are fine (ESPNHD and above). I don't know if the HD movie channels between are affected, as I don't have them.
> 
> 
> This is as of this writing at 11:15 PM, in case hookbill thinks I'm nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Now this type of thing I would never doubt your word on. Fortunately for me I didn't suffer through this aggrivation as I went to bed at 11:00 and my hd set was turned off at 10:00 last night. I'm happy to report it appears it's back up this morning.


Well, things went without a hitch for them for a whole what 15 hours?


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WJW/8 went into its beautiful new HD newscast at 5 PM tonight, with no sound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (The sound was fine until the newscast started.)
> 
> 
> I called up their newsroom, and after I got off hold, the guy asked "have you checked your SAP setting?" After telling him I was talking about the HD signal, I just told them to tell the control room that there was "no sound on the HD newscast".
> 
> 
> About 20 seconds after I hung up the phone...boom, there was sound!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, wait...now they're back to no sound. Arrgh!*




I started watching the morning newscast when I saw the post about their broadcasting in HD. I have found the sound during the newscast to be much too loud, to the point of clipping. When I turn it down to a low enough volume to listen to the news, the commercials are almost silent.


Maybe they just need to average the volume over the morning and evening news....


----------



## Inundated

It's funny, because I seem to remember the HD volume being much lower than the SD volume, at least via Adelphia. And I have the cable box kicked up to full volume within it.


I don't know how they're doing now, because I'm not at home. I'm taking a little road trip and taking an OTA box and a TV tuner for the laptop with me. I saw the Youngstown stations while driving east - at least the two that are lit up, WFMJ-DT and WYTV-DT. (And of course, WFMJ's WB sister station "WBCB" on 20-2...) Yes, that was me at an Ohio Turnpike rest stop with amplified rabbit ears and a HDTV box on the dash!


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I don't know how they're doing now, because I'm not at home. I'm taking a little road trip and taking an OTA box and a TV tuner for the laptop with me. I saw the Youngstown stations while driving east - at least the two that are lit up, WFMJ-DT and WYTV-DT. (And of course, WFMJ's WB sister station "WBCB" on 20-2...) Yes, that was me at an Ohio Turnpike rest stop with amplified rabbit ears and a HDTV box on the dash!*



My first thought was, "Man, you really need to get a hobby." But then I realized what I was saying.










Thanks for the visual.


And wait a minute. Something else just hit me. You're my new hero. Portable HDTV and portable internet. Does it get any better?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *And wait a minute. Something else just hit me. You're my new hero. Portable HDTV and portable internet. Does it get any better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Ah, though I can certainly do wireless Internet...I'm settled down for the moment inside four walls.










I'll take the moment not moving to share some screenshots from Y-Town, captured off my WinTV USB while I was in the car at the Turnpike rest stop:


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *My first thought was, "Man, you really need to get a hobby." But then I realized what I was saying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the visual.
> 
> 
> And wait a minute. Something else just hit me. You're my new hero. Portable HDTV and portable internet. Does it get any better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Apparently I'm not quite smart enough to understand. I'm still lingering with the first thought. Man, this dude is into this stuff.







I don't quite get it but I'm sure he will enlighten me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Apparently I'm not quite smart enough to understand. I'm still lingering with the first thought. Man, this dude is into this stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't quite get it but I'm sure he will enlighten me.*



Hey, man...


I have a car.


I have an AC converter that powers AC from my cigarette lighter ("power port" these days).


I have a laptop computer with a USB TV box attached.


See above screenshots, captured from a parking lot along the Ohio Turnpike.










I'm a man on misssssion. And I haven't figured out where I'm going next, tomorrow!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by duckdogger_
> *West Wing HD was silent too. The opening music theme was cool then the sounds of silence. Finally they switched the feed to a non-HD stretched and the sound was back.
> 
> 
> I'll have to check out fox now that Cox started carrying the feed yesterday.*



God, what a bad night Wed was for NBC. Not only WW but L&O too. They gave it to us in some kind stretched out 480i. They tried to go back to HD but they still didn't have sound.


I just don't understand this. These things are taped. Why can't they present them in the type of technology they promise?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Apparently I'm not quite smart enough to understand. I'm still lingering with the first thought. Man, this dude is into this stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't quite get it but I'm sure he will enlighten me.*



I just meant that the phrase "you need to get a hobby" was a little redundant in that he obviously had one already. And a pretty serious one at that by the sound of it.


And now I'm questioning myself. How can it be a _little_ redundant? It either is or it isn't, right?


Hey, where's the cruising AVSforum while intoxicated thread?










Just kidding, by the way. About the last part. I'm just damaged from a hard week.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Hey, where's the cruising AVSforum while intoxicated thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well, pull up a chair, bud and let's knock a few down. I'm working on my second glass of merlot, not to mention the couple of Lorazepam I took oh and and ambian to make sure I sleep well........


Oh God, isn't XM deep tracks just the best thing since 70's fm radio!


----------



## Rich Klim

Hi,


Anyone see the signal strenght on 3.1, it is in the high 70's for me, up from mid 30's


I can receive all the Cleveland HD stations with excelent signal strength, including 50.1 from Akron


I live in Twinsburg, have a Wingaurd 7032 antenna in the attic with a 15 db preamp. Currently I rarely get a signal on WJW 8.1. Several weeks ago all was fine. Any ideas, has anything changed??


Thanks in advance


----------



## intermod

WJW changed something in thier PSIP recently as it always showed as channel 31 for me untill a few weeks ago. You could try re-scanning for channels that often fixes thing s for me.


/Dan


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rich Klim_
> *Anyone see the signal strenght on 3.1, it is in the high 70's for me, up from mid 30's
> *



I flipped on some Discovery Kids show on 3.1 about 11:40, and the signal strength was good at about 90% for me. Solid signal. As soon as that show was over and the noon news started, the signal strength dropped to about 30% and there were constant dropouts.


Don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but something sure seemed solid at about 11:40.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, pull up a chair, bud and let's knock a few down.*



Hmm, didn't I see that you are from Medina also? What's that line from that old movie? "This could be the beginning of a completely detrimental friendship." Or something like that.....


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but something sure seemed solid at about 11:40.*



And it's been falling ever since. Down to about 5% currently.


Not that there's been anything that I've wanted to watch, but I'm wondering what's going on. Is this an atmospheric thing, or is somebody really trying to get me to go up in my doggone attic to nudge the Rat-Shack antenna?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Hey, man...
> 
> 
> I have a car.
> 
> 
> I have an AC converter that powers AC from my cigarette lighter ("power port" these days).
> 
> 
> I have a laptop computer with a USB TV box attached.
> 
> 
> See above screenshots, captured from a parking lot along the Ohio Turnpike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a man on misssssion. And I haven't figured out where I'm going next, tomorrow!*



OK, so your mission is to drive from town to town check out the HD reception and send screen shots back to us. That's great dude.


While your out there see if you happen to find some women. You know, maybe at a place you eat at or if you go for an evening adult beverage. Then send some hd shots of that action and send it back to us as well.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has added "Wealth TV" to the HD lineup. It's sort of an over-the-top travel channel for rich people. Someone in marketing must figure those of us with enough money to buy an HD set also can afford liesurely $100K golf outings to St. Andrews.


Now if WOW can work on some priorities like WVIZ, TNT, Bravo and InHD, they won't lose the HD arms race with Adelphia...


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> Anyone see the signal strenght on 3.1, it is in the high 70's for me, up from mid 30's



I saw that yesterday. I'm normally at 40% and now its 85% or so. I wonder what they did?


Robert


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Valnar_
> *I saw that yesterday. I'm normally at 40% and now its 85% or so. I wonder what they did?
> 
> 
> Robert*



I'm wondering if it's an atmospheric thing, because 3.1 is about 95% for me right now (the best it's ever been). And 19.1, which has been a problem child for me with (presumably) multi-path issues, is coming in at 90%.


Whatever it is, I hope it lasts!


----------



## Groupal

Couple quick things.


I just upgraded to an Adelphia HD-DVR. Previousely I had Adelphia Digital with a Digital DVR. The signle on the SD channels is HORRIBLE. If I run the Coax from the wall directly into the back of the HD_TV the SD channels look "ok", but through the HD Receiver/DVR it looks terrible. You can toggle back and forth with the inputs on the TV and there's a noticable differnce. The HD channels look amazing as expected, so this is ONLY with the SD channels. One of the folks here in the office suggested checking "sharpness" setting on the TV itself and make sure it's set all the way down/off. Anyone else have any other information.


Also, I made up this list while looking around figured I'd post it and share..

*High Definition Television

(Cleveland area Cable TV Options)*

Wide Open West (WOW)
200 WEWS/ABC HD
201 WOIO/CBS HD
202 WJW/FOX HD
203 WKYC/NBC HD
204 WUAB/UPN HD
410 HBO HD
471 MAX HD
493 STARZ! HD

** ($10 monthly extra HD Pak)**
210 Discovery HD Theater
211 ESPN HD
212 HDNet
213 HDNet Movies
214 Wealth TV HD[/list=1]
Adelphia
703 WKYC/NBC HD
705 WEWS/ABC HD
708 WJW/FOX HD
710 WVIZ/PBS HD
750 HBO HD
751 Showtime HD
752 Starz HD
753 Cinemax HD

** ($5 monthly extra HD Plus Tier)**
770 HD NET
771 HD NET MOVIES
772 ESPN HD
776 Discovery HD
774 iNDemand HD
775 iNDemand HD 2
799 HD PPV Events[/list=1]
COX
702 WVIZ/PBS HD
703 WKYC/NBC HD
704 WOIO/CBS HD
705 WEWS/ABC HD
706 WUAB/UPN HD
730 Discovery HD
740 HBO HD
742 Showtime HD
710 Bravo HD+
711 ESPN HD
720 iNHD
721 iNHD2[/list=1]


Most noticable in these listing are the following "Missing" channels from the lineups..


Wide Open West (WOW) is missing - PBS (Oh well)

Adelphia is missing - CBS (I.E. Sunday Football and Survivor)

Cox is missing - FOX (I.E. Sunday Football and oh say, THE SUPERBOWL)


-G


----------



## Shark73

Cox was scheduled to add Fox-HD on Dec 1st.


----------



## Groupal

I don't know if they did or not, but I pulled the listings off their site this afternoon.


-G


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Groupal_
> *Couple quick things.
> 
> 
> I just upgraded to an Adelphia HD-DVR. Previousely I had Adelphia Digital with a Digital DVR. The signle on the SD channels is HORRIBLE. If I run the Coax from the wall directly into the back of the HD_TV the SD channels look "ok", but through the HD Receiver/DVR it looks terrible. You can toggle back and forth with the inputs on the TV and there's a noticable differnce. The HD channels look amazing as expected, so this is ONLY with the SD channels. One of the folks here in the office suggested checking "sharpness" setting on the TV itself and make sure it's set all the way down/off. Anyone else have any other information.
> *




Did they give you a SA 8000 or SA 8300? If they gave you a SA 8300 and you are hooked up with composite try going to the HDMI port on the back.

I found that analog broadcasts looked better that way. Here's another point however: Once you've seen HD and you look at analog it's going to look much worst no matter what. One other thing. Make sure you claibrate your HD set so you can get the best possible picture. This may help on the analog stations as well, I found it did. You can have your tv calibrated by having a professional do it, purchasing a DVD from Digital Video Essentials (25.00 on ebay) or if you know anything about calibration yourself you can tune to HDNet and they have test patterns at 1080i that you can use.


The "sharpness" should probably be turned off instead of up. If you get the DVE disk it will teach you about these things. Good luck


----------



## Groupal

Thanks, I'll look into the Digital Video Essentials DvD. The problem isn't from HD to SD. It's the SD feed from the DvR to the Set (via component cables) vs a direct coax line into the antenna jack. The coax looks better then the component.


P.S. it's an SA 8300 box.


thanks,


-G


----------



## hookbill

So what your saying is you get a better picture going straight from the cable into the set as opposed to what you see coming out of the box. That is probably correct, to the best of my knowledge you will get a better picture that way. What I am saying to you is that if you replace the component hookup with a hdmi connector (either hdmi/dvi or dvi/dvi) you may see an improvement. Emphasizing the "may". But whatever you see it probably will not be as good as the direct cable hook up, all of SA's boxes seem to diminish analog pictures.


----------



## Rijax

Fox HD is active on COX channel 708. Wish they'd add HDNet and HDNet Movies.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, ESPN2 has announced its initial schedule, starting on January 6th. Wonder which local cable company will be first?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Well, ESPN2 has announced its initial schedule, starting on January 6th. Wonder which local cable company will be first?*



Hmm, January 6th? Let's see, that's after the NFL season and the Sunday Ticket on DirecTV. So D* should have the bandwidth available. Given their propensity for sports.... Ok, I really need that drooling smiley now.


----------



## jtscherne

Here's the link. It's all college basketball to start with (obviously)

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvl...s/espnhd/index


----------



## Inundated

In addition to the recent pick up of WVIZ's PBS HD feed by Adelphia, it appears we're not that far away from the OTA full-power WVIZ-DT signal.


I E-Mailed the station's chief engineer, asking about the status, and he reports back that the issues with Infinity have been solved, and that they're in the process of designing the system. After it's all brought in, put together and installed, they hope to be up on full power from North Royalton sometime in the spring or summer of 2005.


----------



## hookbill

I was surprised by WVIZ's HD schedule. It has totally different programing then WVIZ. Same thing with Discovery HD.


I'm not saying it's bad, I just kind of thought it would be like network programing.


----------



## hookbill

Has anyone noticed how WJW is really sounding the bell (as they should) about their HD newscast? I guess they kind of beta tested it the first couple of weeks before talking about it.


I've also noticed in a couple of newscasts that they are pushing the idea to get HDTV and also giving reasons as to why it is superior. They were talking about HD for Christmas. Unfortunately the sets they talked about were all in the high price area. There were no mention of the lower cost CRT models available.


They also did a "tour" the other day of their new control room. That was done in HD but really other then showing it there were no details.


----------



## Inundated

Yes, I've noticed WJW finally talking about their HD newscasts. I haven't seen any explanation yet, though, as to why pre-taped local material is in SD










(I'm assuming a good part of it is that if it wasn't... they'd be unable to share their news video with non-HD outlets.)


In regards to WVIZ and PBS HD, it's what all the PBS outlets are doing. If I understand correctly, the 24/7 PBS HD channel shows prime-time shows in tandem with the regular feed, if they're in HD. Otherwise, it'd be just an SD upconvert like the other networks, and presumably they it wanted to be a 24/7 service (like, say, Discovery HD).


WNEO/WEAO runs the same feed down here.


----------



## neuronbob

I've noticed WJW's HD newscasts, too. I'd been watching their "HD" feeds (8-1) previously but there was precious little to see other than a few primetime shows until recently.


And regarding WVIZ.....their HD signal is useless, I guess my sponsorship dollars are not being used for their HD antenna! I live in Bedford Heights and can barely get their SD channel. If it weren't for DirecTV carrying their SD signal, I would barely know WVIZ existed. WNEO/WEAO I can get quite well with my indoor antennae.


----------



## hookbill

You know it couldn't last forever. Guide data now is missing from Wednesday evening Dec 15 at 7:00 pm.


Inundated, please check the actual data so we can be sure your not on that special cable link.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *You know it couldn't last forever. Guide data now is missing from Wednesday evening Dec 15 at 7:00 pm.
> 
> 
> Inundated, please check the actual data so we can be sure your not on that special cable link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Hah!


I have guide data through 12/15 at midnight. It won't go to 12/16.


How many days are supposed to be in there? Can you get this fixed?











> Quote:
> _Originally posted by neuronbob_
> *And regarding WVIZ.....their HD signal is useless, I guess my sponsorship dollars are not being used for their HD antenna! I live in Bedford Heights and can barely get their SD channel. If it weren't for DirecTV carrying their SD signal, I would barely know WVIZ existed. WNEO/WEAO I can get quite well with my indoor antennae.*



Let the good folks at WVIZ off the hook on this one...their full-power DT installation has been delayed entirely due to a legal dispute with Infinity Broadcasting, which owns the North Royalton site where their analog transmitter and antenna resides. (It's also the home of Infinity's WNCX/98.5 and Radio One's WERE/1300, Infinity owns the site.)


WVIZ's engineering folks tell me that the dispute has been resolved, and they're designing a DT setup to the specifications agreed to in that settlement of the dispute. Add in the time needed to order and install equipment to those specs, and WVIZ-DT 26 should be at full power sometime in the summer.


(Oh, for what it's worth, WVIZ's chief engineer says Adelphia IS picking up a "city grade" signal off WVIZ-DT at its Lakeside Road facility near downtown Cleveland. Of course, they have much bigger receive antennas than we do.







)


Now, I'm having WKYC-DT problems again. The clear, strong signal I enjoyed from them is now gone. Atmospherics? I know many others on this thread reported a sudden increase in WKYC-DT's signal around the same time I did, but it all fell apart yesterday for me.


I've checked their FCC records, and it doesn't appear they've increased power beyond the 8KW in their license...or even filed to do so.


Of course, I can get WKYC's HD feed on Adelphia, but not having a reliable OTA signal out of them means I'll probably delay moving to a dish...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Hah!
> 
> 
> I have guide data through 12/15 at midnight. It won't go to 12/16.
> 
> 
> How many days are supposed to be in there? Can you get this fixed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



See. There it is, your's is working fine. It only goes 7 days so 12/15 is as far as it goes.


Hey, this isn't TiVo!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *See. There it is, your's is working fine. It only goes 7 days so 12/15 is as far as it goes.
> 
> 
> Hey, this isn't TiVo!*



LOL!


Well, I don't notice anything missing anywhere between 7 and midnight on the 15th.


----------



## hookbill

Yeah, I've checked my guide several times since your post. I sent an email out to my contact at Adelphia and she said she would contact headend.


Hmmm...what EXACTLY is headend....does that mean their head is up their ***?










Maybe this time it's just me! Anyone else missing data on next Wed. evening?


----------



## Inundated

A headend is the cable company's "home base" for tech operations...it's where they send out all those neat channels.










They can also receive the incoming channels there, though I know at least one or two cases where they import other channels from other facilities.


----------



## neuronbob

Thanks for the information, I didn't know that! So they paid my sponsorship dollars to their lawyers.







I'm glad it paid off and I'll be glad to see channel 26-1 next summer.



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> 
> Let the good folks at WVIZ off the hook on this one...their full-power DT installation has been delayed entirely due to a legal dispute with Infinity Broadcasting, which owns the North Royalton site where their analog transmitter and antenna resides. (It's also the home of Infinity's WNCX/98.5 and Radio One's WERE/1300, Infinity owns the site.)[/b]


----------



## Inundated

It's funny...because normally TV and radio engineers cooperate a LOT with each other, and broadcasters do as well.


Infinity must have been concerned that the new DTV equipment would somehow mess up their signal on 98.5 FM. Anyway, they have it all figured out, so by the time all the snow melts...it won't be that long!


----------



## Groupal

Thanks for all your suggestions...


Just thought I'd follow up with everyone on the problem I was having. I switched to Wide Open West (WOW) as my provider. I have NO issues what-so-ever with any channel in their lineup. Same hookup as before. Nothing's changed. The line going to my HD Set is (and was) a direct line from the outside hookup box. Every channel comes in perfect.


The only bummer is that WOW gave me an SA 8000 DVR insted of an 8300 like I had with Adelphia. The installer said to put in an e-mail to their office and asked to be upgraded when they start to release them.


I'm going to chalk this one up to Adelphia living up (or down) to it's reputation.


-G


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Groupal_
> *Thanks for all your suggestions...
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd follow up with everyone on the problem I was having. I switched to Wide Open West (WOW) as my provider. I have NO issues what-so-ever with any channel in their lineup. Same hookup as before. Nothing's changed. The line going to my HD Set is (and was) a direct line from the outside hookup box. Every channel comes in perfect.
> 
> 
> The only bummer is that WOW gave me an SA 8000 DVR insted of an 8300 like I had with Adelphia. The installer said to put in an e-mail to their office and asked to be upgraded when they start to release them.
> 
> 
> I'm going to chalk this one up to Adelphia living up (or down) to it's reputation.
> 
> 
> -G*



You mean you have a choice of cable providers? That's amazing!


I got an update from my source at Adelphia about the missing data. At first they claimed there wasn't a problem. I then gave them a DETAILED explanation suggesting that they actually plug Thursday and look to see if they actually saw anything. They came back and acknowledged a problem and they said that national headquarters was now aware of it and they were going to monitor it locally as well as it may be a problem with the manufacturer's equipment. I don't know if it's as widespread as the last time as once again the only other person I've heard from is Inundated and he doesn't have any problems with Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated

What can I say, I lead a charmed life?










BTW, I just checked, and I have what appears to be complete guide info through Thursday night, 12/16. Maybe if you tell me what's missing (what channel/time) I can spot it?


And to that guy having problems with the PQ on the SD channels on Adelphia, who moved to Wide Open West...you're right. Adelphia's PQ stinks on the SD channels. Horribly. At least here, at any rate. And if you're running it through the DVR, it's even worse!


I have a SD set running with the 8000HD box outputting 480i component video. The HD stuff looks VERY good, probably about as good as you can expect with a non-HD Ready set. The combination of Adelphia's poor PQ on analog channels to begin with, added to whatever they use to run the analog channels through the 8000HD, makes it look horrible.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *What can I say, I lead a charmed life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I just checked, and I have what appears to be complete guide info through Thursday night, 12/16. Maybe if you tell me what's missing (what channel/time) I can spot it?
> 
> *



What's missing? EVERYTHING!! There is no data at all from Wednesday night 7:00 pm through Thursday. I have data from right now up until Wednesday night.


A CSR once told me the headend works Mon. thru Fri., so I doubt if my situation will be cleared up until Monday at the earliest.


You just get your feed from another area. Apparently the one with good equipment.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *You just get your feed from another area. Apparently the one with good equipment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Perhaps!










I have full guide data on all channels through Thursday night, as I said. I thought you and I were fed out of the same headend, but I guess not...


----------



## hookbill

This morning I checked the data guide and all data is in there up until next Saturday. Either it fixed itself or headend does work weekends.


Oddly enough I noticed as well when I turned on my 8300 it didn't start on channel 1 which is what it has been doing for the past couple of weeks. It was on INHD2 which was the last live tv I watched yesterday.


----------



## Bill Harrison

Where are you located Hookbill? What service do you have, twc or adelphia? I would like to get an 8300, but i was told there are none in this area (TWC NEO)


----------



## Inundated

Good to hear you have fixed guide data again. If you talk to your Adelphia E-Mail contact again, ask her if you and I are on the same headend...I'm curious why I didn't have a problem and you did. (I'm on the old Cablevision "Cuyahoga Valley" system, which serves areas like Bath, Copley and the old Northampton Township, now the north/western end of Cuyahoga Falls.)


As far as the channel start...good question. Most of the time, my 8000 after its automatic overnight shutoff, ends up on 1. I think it has to do with Adelphia doing work overnight...?


Bill - hookbill and I are on Adelphia. I don't know if TWC NEO has the 8300 or not...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> 
> As far as the channel start...good question. Most of the time, my 8000 after its automatic overnight shutoff, ends up on 1. I think it has to do with Adelphia doing work overnight...?
> 
> *



That's why I said "oddly enough". You would think if they did some work it would start on channel 1. It would be interesting to take a tour of there operations to get an idea how they work.


----------



## linearxs

For those that are interested, here is what channels I get with a Dvico Fusion HDTV3-T PCI card in my HTPC.


North Canton, OH Time Warner


80-1 or -2 = NBC @1080i NBC looks good

80-3 = Channel 3 weather?

80-4 = Channel 45-49 HD PBS

80-5 = Channel 45-49 digital ?

82-1 = CN I have no idea what CN is, its not CNN either "Disappeared, can't view anymore"

83-2 = PBS @ 480i "Disappeared, can't view anymore"

85-6 = ***Crashes***

90-1 = ***Crashes***

93-1 = Showtime Preview Channel

94-1 = HBO Preview Channel

104-1 = ABC @ 720p

104-2 = Fox @ 720p Football looks great

107-1 = ***Crashes***

112-1 = ***Crashes***

112-5 = ***Crashes***

115-1 = ***Crashes***

117-1 = Have no idea

117-3 = QVC

118 = Audio but no video



Anyone know of any other channels that may be lurking out there on North East Oho TWC?


----------



## cristo28

Hello,


My Adelphia friends, anyone have problems with losing sound last night. Everytime I would go from hd channel to one of non digital channel I would lose the sound until I re-booted my box. Strange anyone heard of this. I have an 8300 box.


Thanks


john


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by linearxs_
> *For those that are interested, here is what channels I get with a Dvico Fusion HDTV3-T PCI card in my HTPC.
> 
> 
> North Canton, OH Time Warner
> 
> 
> 80-1 or -2 = NBC @1080i NBC looks good
> 
> 80-3 = Channel 3 weather?
> 
> 80-4 = Channel 45-49 HD PBS
> 
> 80-5 = Channel 45-49 digital ?
> 
> 82-1 = CN I have no idea what CN is, its not CNN either "Disappeared, can't view anymore"
> 
> 83-2 = PBS @ 480i "Disappeared, can't view anymore"
> 
> 85-6 = ***Crashes***
> 
> 90-1 = ***Crashes***
> 
> 93-1 = Showtime Preview Channel
> 
> 94-1 = HBO Preview Channel
> 
> 104-1 = ABC @ 720p
> 
> 104-2 = Fox @ 720p Football looks great
> 
> 107-1 = ***Crashes***
> 
> 112-1 = ***Crashes***
> 
> 112-5 = ***Crashes***
> 
> 115-1 = ***Crashes***
> 
> 117-1 = Have no idea
> 
> 117-3 = QVC
> 
> 118 = Audio but no video
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know of any other channels that may be lurking out there on North East Oho TWC?*



There were more, but about two weeks ago TWC scrambled them. Now the only thing you can get are the NBC, PBS, ABC and Fox feeds (plus a couple of SD channels, FUEL and a Canton indy channel).


----------



## SKoprowski

I e-mailed TWC today and asked if Ch 19 will be available in HiDef soon-- we'll see if I get a response. The cable channels do look great, but I still find the OTA high def to be better than the QAM feed. Inhd, Inhd2, DiscoveryHD, TNT HD, and Discovery Theater were all unscrambled until a few weeks ago. I really can't complain though since I am only a cable modem subscriber to TWC


----------



## grayta

Gotta agree with you, SKoprowski-the OTA stuff is a bit better!


And if the Silver Sensor just got WKYC we'd really be in business and in no need of TWC!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Hello,
> 
> 
> My Adelphia friends, anyone have problems with losing sound last night. Everytime I would go from hd channel to one of non digital channel I would lose the sound until I re-booted my box. Strange anyone heard of this. I have an 8300 box.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> john*



Can't say I've experienced that ever! How do you have your sound coming through? Is it DVI/HDMI and through TV or HDMI through TV? Or are you coming out of the box with digital cable?


----------



## cristo28

Cable into 8300, sound out digital optically into Receiver, HDMI out with and DVI input into my tv. Everytime I go to HD and then back to non HD I have to re-boot the 8300. Very strange, last night was the first time I noticed it. Thanks hope all is well with those parrots. Happy Holidays.


John


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by cristo28_
> *Cable into 8300, sound out digital optically into Receiver, HDMI out with and DVI input into my tv. Everytime I go to HD and then back to non HD I have to re-boot the 8300. Very strange, last night was the first time I noticed it. Thanks hope all is well with those parrots. Happy Holidays.
> 
> 
> John*



I'd say it sounds like a box problem, but check it out tonight and see what it's like. You shouldn't have to reboot everytime you switch channels. John, assuming you have home theater system for your double check your settings there as well. You really shouldn't loose all sound. Here's a link with some helpful info on these boards as well for you. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=471859 


DoubleDAZ put together a pretty neat short cut sheet there you might be interested in.


----------



## jtscherne

Here's a weird sound problem (non-HD related):


I'm not getting any sound through my 8300HD on ONE channel: Channel 15 (the local Adelphia channel here in the Shaker Heights area). I get sound with a direct connection to the TV and through a non-HD non-DVR digital cable box, but not the HD box. And as far as I can tell, it's the only station that is causing me problems! (And I watch Les Levine's show, in case you're wondering why I'm watch the channel!)


I guess I can call CS, but I can't imagine what they're likely to be able to do...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by linearxs_
> *For those that are interested, here is what channels I get with a Dvico Fusion HDTV3-T PCI card in my HTPC.*



OK, let's go through them







Or at least the ones I can figure out...



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> 80-1 or -2 = NBC @1080i NBC looks good*


*
*Is 80-2 in HD, or SD? WKYC-DT runs HD on 3-1 OTA, and an SD simulcast on 3-2 OTA.



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> 80-3 = Channel 3 weather?*


*
*Channel 3 puts up a live color radar on 3-3 OTA.



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> 80-4 = Channel 45-49 HD PBS
> 
> 80-5 = Channel 45-49 digital ?*


*
*Like with Channel 3, the folks at PBS 45/49 run an SD simulcast on their second sub-channel. The first is actually a 24/7 feed of the PBS HD channel. This is common among PBS affiliates...WVIZ does the same thing. Adelphia now picks up WVIZ's 26-1 PBS HD feed - with local IDs - off of the station's anemic temporary 1KW setup atop its building. (Look above for the status of the full-power upgrade for WVIZ-DT.)



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> 83-2 = PBS @ 480i "Disappeared, can't view anymore"*


*
*No idea if this is a sub-channel of WVIZ or not, for example. Did you see a "PBS Kids" or some other different PBS superimposed ID?


On other topics - I have no audio problems switching between HD and SD channels on Adelphia. And I just switched to 15 to see how the sound was, and it's fine. (They're running the "Midnight Movie" show now.)


And the "Canton indy" greyta mentioned would likely be local LPTV station WIVM-LP 52. It shows up normally on TWC NEO's Canton lineup at digital channel 585 (!!), which is maybe why it's in there with the HD channels...even though it's most assuredly SD.


----------



## Inundated

Forgot to mention, about the sound problem...that I have an 8000HD feeding just two regular on-board TV speakers. No DD5.1 here. Maybe that's part of your problem...some sort of incompatible setup thing with surround speakers?


And I'm generally happy with Adelphia's HD offerings - aside from, of course, the absence of WOIO-DT (sneering in the general direction of Raycom). But even on my little 32" SD set, the OTA via my own STB looks a little crisper...and the STB is feeding the TV via S-Video, where the 8000HD is feeding it via component video.


It's not that the Adelphia HD channels look BAD at all, but the local network affiliates, to my eyes, look better HD OTA...just slightly.


----------



## paule123

People must have lit up the phones at WEWS tonight. I was navigating the voice mail menu at WEWS ready to scream at somebody there for flipping the HD switch off at midnight on a great MNF game when it magically switched back to HD... It still amazes me that there's actually a human "switch flipper" on all these HD feeds.


----------



## Inundated

I E-Mailed them about this. The "switch the game to SD at midnight" thing...I've seen at least two times before on MNF. They do usually flip it back, after a commercial break...I think it's just part of the process of switching back in and out of network HD/local SD upconvert/network HD during commercials.


----------



## hookbill

I don't understand why they would switch the game. Is it cost saving for them? Is HDTV second class citizen for them?


Well, I'm never up that late but if they keep it up I'd let them know I intened to contact their sponsors about it (or the network).


----------



## linearxs




> Quote:
> Is 80-2 in HD, or SD? WKYC-DT runs HD on 3-1 OTA, and an SD simulcast on 3-2 OTA.



I'll have to check that again. Could it be that one is a digital channel and the other is a high definition channel? I would concider SD a standard definition channel that would be at 3-0 rather than a subchannel like 3-1 or 3-2.



> Quote:
> Did you see a "PBS Kids" or some other different PBS superimposed ID?



I was scanning through the channels and I saw a kids program so I made the assumption that it was some sort of PBS channel. I saw something similar with the other channel that I can no longer view which had a symbol on the program with the letters "CN"


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I don't understand why they would switch the game. Is it cost saving for them? Is HDTV second class citizen for them?*



I assume that they have the digital transmitters on a timer set to turn on at noon(?) and off at midnight automatically to save money on electricity and not having a human engineer there to do it every day. I think they just forget during special events or if some live event messes up the schedule. I have seen CBS and NBC have this problem too. WOIO did it last week with NCIS - I forget why but some live event pushed NCIS's end time past 11pm and bang right at 11pm the picture went from HD to SD.


The irony is from what I read on other engineering related threads the digital transmitters cost far less to operate than the old analog pigs.


----------



## handsworth

The NFL Network is now on Adelphia channel 17 in analog. This is a free preview. January 17 the SD channel will be on Ch 178 as part of the digital basic. The HD Ch will be on Ch 778 as part of the HD PLus.

Additional info: You can find the preview on ch 17,37,23,75 or 71 depending on what your local community channel is.


----------



## Inundated

Whatever it is, it sure seems like they have HD stuff on a timer. Why, especially since it's well known that Monday Night Football often pushes past midnight, I don't know. My E-Mail to WEWS came back with a "I don't know the answer, I'll pass it along" response.


I'm finding the NFL Network on Adelphia 17 right now. I wonder if this means NBA TV will follow? That would get actual basketball games, and presumably open up the INHD/INHD2 simulcasts of NBA TV's games in HD, which are blocked now on Adelphia...


NFL Network, as far as I know, doesn't broadcast any live football games in either SD or HD, though they may have a replay or two.


----------



## DBarros

Question for others with Adelphia HD service. Anybody else getting Channels 805 and 808? They are SD versions of Channel 705 and 708.

Don't know why I need 3 channels of both ABC and FOX?


----------



## jtscherne

They do have occasional HD content:


(From the NFL Network website)

In Game of the Week, which airs Wednesdays and Thursday nights at 9 p.m. ET, you will see the two most interesting games from the previous Sunday -- but in a one-hour condensed version. Featuring unique camera angles, sideline sound and you will get the story you didn't see during Sunday's broadcast. Available in High Definition!


Unfortunately, by the time the HD channel starts, the regular season will be over, so I don't know if there will be HD content then or not...


I'm not complaining though; NFL network is a good addition to the overall cable lineup.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DBarros_
> *Question for others with Adelphia HD service. Anybody else getting Channels 805 and 808? They are SD versions of Channel 705 and 708.
> 
> Don't know why I need 3 channels of both ABC and FOX?*



Not getting them in the Shaker Heights area...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DBarros_
> *Question for others with Adelphia HD service. Anybody else getting Channels 805 and 808? They are SD versions of Channel 705 and 708.
> 
> Don't know why I need 3 channels of both ABC and FOX?*



Not getting 'em here in the Akron area. Where is the headend for Milan? (i.e. Adelphia's main service building) Sandusky?


Maybe they're testing the digital simulcasts of the analog channels.... for better PQ on non-HD channels. I know some systems are doing this. If it is successful, your box would tune to the analog channel numbers you had now, but you'd get this SD digital version instead of the analog version, on the non-HD channels.


----------



## Gbluhm

Dan,


Can you actually hear the audio okay on 26-10? I realize CRRS is also on the analog SAP channel but my question relates specifically to the audio on 26-10.


Thanks


Gary




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *quote:Originally posted by Gbluhm
> 
> Is anyone able to receive the CRRS audio-only feed on WVIZ?
> 
> 
> YES!!! On my set it maps out as 26-10. It used to say CRRS on call sign block but I noticed today that now its just empty. I get WVIZ-DT at a solid
> 
> 60 here.
> 
> 
> Welcome to the group.
> 
> 
> Dan*


----------



## intermod

Hey Gary,


Yes! I know its is a little intermittent. I think they use volenteers to read

the newspaper but there is audio on it right now. Sounds like a radio show,

male and female voice bantering about sports.My Info banner says New York Times and they are speaking about the Mets... When there is audio on it

it has always sounded fine.


Looks like dolby 2.0 Signal strenght almost 60. actually it is just as strong as WNEO just not a favorable direction for me to pick up other stations

but I have logged a few Detroit stations with the Yagi (Jerrold Sharpshooter)

pointed up that way.


Keep up the good work. The video on 26-1 is really great!


Dan


----------



## neuronbob

Are any other local newscasts than channel 8 done in actual HD? Or is channel 8 just the one crowing the most? Just curious.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by neuronbob_
> *Are any other local newscasts than channel 8 done in actual HD? Or is channel 8 just the one crowing the most? Just curious.*



Fox 8 is the only one.


----------



## Ben Music

In case you didn't notice, as of wed 12/15/04 Comcast turned on HD PPV in the On Demand section listed under movies. In Jan 05, INHD is going to start a free On Demand HD service. We may get that also.


My contact at the Comcast head end dept also said that CBSHD is coming very soon.

That should be great news for all.


Ben Music


----------



## JJL

I thought CBS's pregame show was usually in HD? If not someone needs to call 19 and tell them to flip the switch. Hope they remeber to flip it at 1:30PM.


Go Steelers!!


----------



## paule123

CBS pregame is never in HD. Neither is Fox's (480p widescreen)


Steelers game coming in fine in HD on Wide Open West.


----------



## AfricanGrey

Does anyone receive true DD 5.1 audio from any OTA stations?


I recently purchased a new TV with an built-in ATSC tuner. I can receive most of the local OTA stations in HD (when they broadcast it), but the audio does not sound like 51 surround sound. The TV has a digital optical output which I connect to my audio receiver's optical input. The receiver recognizes the digital signal, but I only hear audio on the front speakers.


Is this because the stations are not broadcasting 5.1 audio or is there a problem with my TY?


----------



## Shark73

Fox & NBC are the only local stations with DD 5.1


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by AfricanGrey_
> *Does anyone receive true DD 5.1 audio from any OTA stations?
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a new TV with an built-in ATSC tuner. I can receive most of the local OTA stations in HD (when they broadcast it), but the audio does not sound like 51 surround sound. The TV has a digital optical output which I connect to my audio receiver's optical input. The receiver recognizes the digital signal, but I only hear audio on the front speakers.
> 
> 
> Is this because the stations are not broadcasting 5.1 audio or is there a problem with my TY?*



What shark73 said is correct. I don't receive OTA but on my cable receiver I have to set up digital in the settings as well for it to receive 5.1. Do you have a settings on your OTA receiver?


Not all shows on these networks are broadcast in 5.1.


And welcome to the forum, AfricanGrey!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by AfricanGrey_
> *Does anyone receive true DD 5.1 audio from any OTA stations?
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a new TV with an built-in ATSC tuner. I can receive most of the local OTA stations in HD (when they broadcast it), but the audio does not sound like 51 surround sound. The TV has a digital optical output which I connect to my audio receiver's optical input. The receiver recognizes the digital signal, but I only hear audio on the front speakers.
> 
> 
> Is this because the stations are not broadcasting 5.1 audio or is there a problem with my TY?*



I get OTA (and Adelphia). I do get 5.1 audio via my Dish 811 OTA receiver to my Yamaha receiver, on the locals when the program is presented in 5.1 (and on the networks doing 5.1).


-Todd


----------



## grayta

Anyone having trouble with the WEWS (Channel 5/15) OTA signal? I've consistently had about 75% signal strength for this channel and then this past weekend it dropped to almost nothing! I haven't tried tweaking the antenna yet, but all the other stations are still there so I thought I'd ask. Thanks.


----------



## AfricanGrey




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I get OTA (and Adelphia). I do get 5.1 audio via my Dish 811 OTA receiver to my Yamaha receiver, on the locals when the program is presented in 5.1 (and on the networks doing 5.1).
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Thank you for your verification that there is, at least, some OTA 5.1 being broadcast. I guess I will just wait for a NBC or FOX program to be identified as being broadcast in 5.1 and check my equipment then.


----------



## AfricanGrey




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *What shark73 said is correct. I don't receive OTA but on my cable receiver I have to set up digital in the settings as well for it to receive 5.1. Do you have a settings on your OTA receiver?
> 
> 
> Not all shows on these networks are broadcast in 5.1.
> 
> 
> And welcome to the forum, AfricanGrey!*




Thank you for your kind welcome and your response.

I do not have a stand-alone OTA receiver, as my television has the receiver built-in. Therefore, there are no settings for turning digital on or off. I just use the optical output from the TV and assume that it would "carry" a 5.1 signal if one was present.

The reason I am asking about this is because my Kenwood receiver only has one optical input so I need to swap cables from my DirecTivo and the television (if there is 5.1 content present).


----------



## Shark73

The optical out from the TV should work fine for 5.1. Most if not all of Fox's primetime HD shows have DD 5.1 and all of the Fox HD NFL games have 5.1.


I'm not a big fan of the shows on NBC, so I'm not sure which shows have 5.1.


Maybe someone else can help you with that one.


----------



## grayta

WKYC broadcasts all the "Law and Order" shows in 5.1. The Tonight Show, too (plus others I'm sure).


----------



## jtscherne

Fox definitely broadcasts all NFL games in 5.1, but the next one isn't until Friday, so I'm sure you can find something to check it before then. Since many primetime shows are in repeats this week, I'm not sure about whether older repeats are also broadcasting in 5.1 on either Fox or NBC.


----------



## intermod

Hi,




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by AfricanGrey_
> 
> . I just use the optical output from the TV and assume that it would "carry" a 5.1 signal if one was present.
> 
> The reason I am asking about this is because my Kenwood receiver only has one optical input so I need to swap cables from my DirecTivo and the television (if there is 5.1 content present). [/b]



Dont you just love those Kenwood Manuals?


I have had my Kwood HTIB 606 for almost 3 years now and am just now

finding out how to work it. and also to verify that it is doing what I think it is!


One tip, Grab a test DVD like Sound and vision (From the magazine) . With

a known input mode you can play with the options on the receiver till you get what you want.


Another tip, I can't figure out if my surrounds are running untill I get right up to them and press an ear against them. Maybe they are just turned down.


There is no need to fear the coxial input. they work fine.


I agree if you get a digital stream from the optical jack the AMP should be

able to figure it out.


Welcome to the group, congrats on the new set!


/Dan


----------



## duckdogger

Was in Dayton over the weekend and my buddie has T-W. Their HD is pathetic in the northern Dayton area. I think there were only 2 network offerings and about everything else was a premium option (ESPN HD, Universal HD, INHD, etc.)


Thank goodness for Cox. Even the local Fox affiliates 5 o'clock news cast looks great.


----------



## Inundated

Attention DirecTV folks: D* has apparently turned on the Fox HDTV feed in O&O markets. I believe it'd be channel 88 (east coast, probably out of Fox's O&O in NYC).


Since WJW is a Fox O&O, and since there are no major overlap problems with other Fox non-O&O affiliates in nearby markets, folks in NE Ohio should be getting this. Well, aside from those in the relatively small area in the Mahoning Valley covered by LPTVers Fox 17/62.










Oh, for those who don't know... "O&O" is industry shorthand for "owned and operated", which in this case means that the network owns the local affiliate.


----------



## hookbill

Hi guys,


This has nothing to do with HDTV but since there are so many Browns fans, I was wondering if someone can give me a summary about why the original Browns moved to Baltimore? From my point of view it doesn't make sense, everyone in the area is very loyal to the Browns despite the fact that they....well....they are not too good.










Why did Art Modell move?


----------



## jtscherne

Find the book, "False Start", by Terry Pluto (Akron Beacon Journal sportswriter). It just came out. While much of it discusses the new Browns, it also gives background on the old team's move out of town.


Basically, Art Modell needed money and Baltimore offered it.


----------



## electrocutioner

Has anyone noticed that WKYC-HD has audio-video sync issues.


I have been watching the tonight show and some other daytime shows and it seems that it is almost always there.


maybe it is my setup -- I am using fusion HDTV tuner OTA.


----------



## Dweezilz

Hey everyone, not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but I just noticed today on Adelphia's message channel that they are going to be adding The NFL Channel HD January 17th on channel 778! That is very cool. I hope they add TNT-HD soon so we can see LeBron in HD!


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

Handsworth mentioned it a bunch of messages back, but it was easy to miss with the large volume lately (which is a good thing!)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by electrocutioner_
> *Has anyone noticed that WKYC-HD has audio-video sync issues.
> 
> 
> I have been watching the tonight show and some other daytime shows and it seems that it is almost always there.
> 
> 
> maybe it is my setup -- I am using fusion HDTV tuner OTA.*



I don't think it's your setup, I see the same thing with WKYC, the Tonight Show, WOW cable and the SA8000HD cable box. It's not there all the time though, sometimes the audio sync is perfect, other times not.


----------



## hookbill

When I'm watching a recording and the out of sync thing happens I can sometimes fix it just by pausing, then playing. Other times I have had to restart the show. Sometimes I just can't fix it.


I will say that this happens a lot less with the 8300.


----------



## Gbluhm

Thanks much, Dan.


Been having lots of trouble configuring 25-10 so it works across several brands of STB.


Gary






> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Hey Gary,
> 
> 
> Yes! I know its is a little intermittent. I think they use volenteers to read
> 
> the newspaper but there is audio on it right now. Sounds like a radio show,
> 
> male and female voice bantering about sports.My Info banner says New York Times and they are speaking about the Mets... When there is audio on it
> 
> it has always sounded fine.
> 
> 
> Looks like dolby 2.0 Signal strenght almost 60. actually it is just as strong as WNEO just not a favorable direction for me to pick up other stations
> 
> but I have logged a few Detroit stations with the Yagi (Jerrold Sharpshooter)
> 
> pointed up that way.
> 
> 
> Keep up the good work. The video on 26-1 is really great!
> 
> 
> Dan*


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Gbluhm_
> *Thanks much, Dan.
> 
> 
> Been having lots of trouble configuring 25-10 so it works across several brands of STB.
> 
> 
> Gary*



Welcome to the board, Gary! Some of us have bugged you elsewhere







But you've always been gracious and up front about it.


I'm, unfortunately, out of range of WVIZ-DT's current signal. When you guys get the long-awaited full-power setup going out of North Royalton, I'll be happy to let you know how it works with the el cheapo U.S. Digital STB. Or maybe I'll drag it along with me in the car and try it on Brookpark Road with my laptop.


----------



## jtscherne

(Not related to HD)


Channel 1 has a new announcement. Starting tomorrow, they'll be passing along digital signals for the local channels in the 800 range, including both CBS and WUAB. An earlier poster mentioned these channels on his guide and it's obvious they were in a middle of a test at the time.


----------



## hookbill

Well, that is good news! I'll have to reset some of my recordings at least they won't look like garbage anymore!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *(Not related to HD)
> 
> 
> Channel 1 has a new announcement. Starting tomorrow, they'll be passing along digital signals for the local channels in the 800 range, including both CBS and WUAB. An earlier poster mentioned these channels on his guide and it's obvious they were in a middle of a test at the time.*



This is very good news. Adelphia's OTA analog channels stink!


Now, if we could only get WOIO/WUAB on the HD tier...


----------



## hookbill

I hope this doesn't cause the Guide Data to disappear again. If it does, I hope my contact at Adelphia is there tomorrow.


----------



## rlockshin

I live in Bath and have had WEAO PBS HD for a few months OTA. In the last 2 days signal is gone. Anyone else have this problem ? All other channels come in fine at same signal strength. Ch 49-1 had 93% signal. I am hoping that it is them. Nothing has changed at my end. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Inundated

rlockshin - wish I could help you, but neither me nor my HD OTA STB is anywhere near Akron the next day or two. And even if I was near home, my house is without power!


And that may very well be the problem with WEAO-DT...the snow and ice storm nightmare that recently visited the area. I bet they're out of power like my house is, and I bet they don't have a generator backup for the DT signal.


----------



## Groupal

Need a little help here. Maybe you all can help. I moved over to Wide Open West and have been extreemly happy. Now I'm having a problem with the ESPN HD channel. I'm convinced it's something on my end, but I can't figure it out.


I have an SA Explorer 8000 HD (DVR).


ESPN-HD is channel 211.


For the last couple days I haven't had and "annoucers" voices. Watching a football game I just get the on field sound. (it's actually very nice) But when watching Sports Center, I hear all the sound effects and the taped commentary is there, but when the annoucers are on the screen, silence.


There's got to be someplace that I've accidentaly set it to feed the wrong audio signal with that channel, but I don't know where.


thanks,


-G


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Groupal_
> *For the last couple days I haven't had and "annoucers" voices. Watching a football game I just get the on field sound. (it's actually very nice) But when watching Sports Center, I hear all the sound effects and the taped commentary is there, but when the annoucers are on the screen, silence.*



The most likely explanation that I can think of is that your receiver is routing those signals to a non-existent center channel speaker. If you don't have a center channel speaker set up, make sure that your receiver is properly configured with that information.


But it could also be an error on the part of the broadcaster or cable company. We've seen that sort of thing happen before.


----------



## Dweezilz

Definately not an ESPN-HD problem as on Adelphia & Dish Network it's fine. I could be a WOW issue, but I don't think that's as likely as it being an equiptment issue on your end. I would route the sound DIRECTLY to your TV & see if you hear all the sound. If you were routing into a reciever before & through the TV there are still no announcers, then it's either your Cable Box (they are flakey when it comes to sound) or WOW. I have the same exact box & on the HD channels, from time to time, I'll get no sound. If it switch channels & go back, the sound returns.


Let us know what you find. I'd say it's the box or your receiver/speaker setup or even the speaker cable.


-Todd


----------



## Groupal

Well, I do have the Component Line and the Audio lines going directly into the TV. (Waiting for Uncle Sam's Check before we put in the Sound system in the spring).


I'll put a call into WoW and see if they know what's going on.


thanks,


-G


----------



## Groupal

talked to CS at WOW. They are sending a tech out next week. He thinks my box is bad. I know I have to pull the plug on it and let it reboot every couple of days. The sounds goes out on all Digital chanels.


I put a request in to get an SA 8300 insted of the 8000. he wasn't sure if they had them or not. We'll see. At least they credited me for a month of the Extra HD package for it.


-G


----------



## bedo

Does anyone have a phone # to call to get CBS to flip the switch for the football game (Chiefs-Raiders) that just started!??!?!


----------



## DCSholtis

Luckily there is a problem at D* today and Im getting CBS HD channel 80 in the clear. I HOPE it doesnt shut off during the game. C'mon WOIO get with the damn program!!!


----------



## bedo

Just called the 877 # that Fred DeGrandis posted for WOIO's general switchboard/newsroom and after checking, I was informed that no one is back there to flip a switch. It is Christmas for them too, she said. Fair enough, but unacceptable! This game is going out in HD and this whole area will see it in SD because they did not think ahead. Ridiculous!


WOIO, analog 19, D-10, CBS

general 877-929-1943


Maybe others could call too and ask for Master Control to get HD going?


----------



## KenNEO

Just called the number for Channel 19 and they said the football is not in HD today!


----------



## bedo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by KenNEO_
> *Just called the number for Channel 19 and they said the football is not in HD today!*



Haa!! Keep calling people! The reason it is not in HD today is beacuse they did not do their jobs. It really is not my intent to flame, but c'mon...


At least let the jews amongst us should pick up the slack today for our gentile brothers!


----------



## DCSholtis

DAMN!!! D* corrected its error and just shut off the CBS HD feed on Channel 80, C'mon already WOIO!!!!!


----------



## hookbill

While I appreciate the idea of being able to receive local channels with a digital signal, I kind of wonder if this is in fact what is going on. I couldn't see any difference in WOIO analog or digital. Another thing on every other digital channel I receive my home theater system reports a dolby signature with them. Not 5.1 like on HD but not just a converted analog signal which is what I get on all the analog local channels.


Anybody else done any comparisons?


----------



## bedo

Is the Browns game going to be shown in HD? It is widescreen SD right now


----------



## ted_b

I have it in HD (ESPN HD via Wow cable, Westlake) but no commentator audio, just crowd noise. Reminds me of the Jets game years ago that had no announcers. Kinda nice, really.


Ted_B


----------



## ted_b

Anybody else watching the Browns game in HD on Wow cable...and getting no announcers? I get them on the SD channel, but not the HD one. I just rewired my HT and wondering if I missed something, but after running calibration tests, etc all 7 channels outputs are normal. Weird. Some local commercials on the broadcast are missing audio too? It's like it's a decoder issue.


Ted_B


----------



## Inundated

I'm watching the Browns on ESPN-HD via Adelphia. No sound problems on the HD feed, but I'm just in standard stereo...no 5.1 setup here.


FYI - for anyone still seeing it in SD...tune to ESPN-HD. WEWS, which has the local rights to this Sunday Night Football game, can only show the game in SD. They can't pick up the ESPN-HD feed. You need to go to cable for HD on this game.


It's standard this way...none of the OTA stations that carry the SNF contests air them in HD. But ESPN-HD is not blacked out locally during an SNF game involving the local team.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *While I appreciate the idea of being able to receive local channels with a digital signal, I kind of wonder if this is in fact what is going on. I couldn't see any difference in WOIO analog or digital.*



Same here. The digital (SD) local feeds on 80x are the same awful quality - in many cases - as the analog feeds in the lower numbers. Some of the channels are better than others...of course, WOIO/WUAB is at the bottom, as they are in all definitions.


(Viacom/CBS? Someone? Come in and buy 19/43 off of Raycom like you're buying KOVR/13 Sacramento from Sinclair! Save us from Raycom!)


Someone with better connections at Adelphia would be able to answer this... but I'm under the impression that most of the local network affiliates do a direct fiber optic feed into the Adelphia headend. If this is the case, does 19/43 NOT do this? That'd explain the "over air signal" quality of both the analog 4/6 and digital 804/806.


If Raycom ever manages to reach an agreement with Adelphia to carry WOIO and WUAB's HD/DT feeds, I'm half convinced they'll make even THAT signal look bad. The SD video on WOIO-DT's signal (during local news, etc.) is the most washed out digital signal in the market.


----------



## Inundated

I just did some back/forth comparisons...and believe it or not, the digital (SD) version of WOIO/19 on Adelphia 804 is actually WORSE than the analog version on 4!


The digital version appears to be having trouble encoding the analog snow that is present in the WOIO OTA analog signal. It's "sharper" than 4, but that "sharpness" appears to be making the analog snow sharper as well.


I had one regular DVR recording for WOIO that I moved to 804, but I'm gonna move it back to 4. My TiVo hasn't switched yet, because the lineup hasn't picked up the addition of the 80x channels.


Of course, if Raycom got its head out of its nether regions and come to an agreement with Adelphia on WOIO-DT/WUAB-DT, this wouldn't happen!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *from Sinclair! Save us from Raycom!)
> 
> 
> Someone with better connections at Adelphia would be able to answer this... but I'm under the impression that most of the local network affiliates do a direct fiber optic feed into the Adelphia headend. If this is the case, does 19/43 NOT do this? That'd explain the "over air signal" quality of both the analog 4/6 and digital 804/806.
> *



I'm not certain about the fiber optic feed. If that was so, then I should receive a signal in my HTS indicating a dolby like signal. What I'm getting is what I see when my HTS converts analog to digital just like it does on the analog broadcast, i.e. If I watch anything in the 100's and above my HTS shows a clear digital signal with a dolby pro logic use attached to it. On these new "digital stations" I'm not getting that. I should get the same signal I get off all the other digital stations.


I'd call and ask Adelphia about it, but you know what that would lead to. "Let's reboot your box" and then "We need to make an appointment to send a tech out to your house."


I really don't want to bother my Adelphia contact about this as I consider this minor.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I really don't want to bother my Adelphia contact about this as I consider this minor.*



Well, if you change your mind about that and do, let us know. I'm curious about the answers to my questions above.


Local stations will often feed their signals directly to cable systems via fiber optic cable not just because of clarity, but because it allows them to "stay on the air" even if their transmitter goes out. Some stations, like WKYC/3, have that SD simulcast on their digital signal that's meant to feed cable systems, but if THAT transmitter goes out, the signal is gone.


----------



## Inundated

It's not really my cup of tea, but I noticed while turning past WUAB/43 tonight that the UPN sitcom "Girlfriends" had a "simulcast in HDTV" graphic.


However, WUAB is not passing the HD signal through.


Does WUAB do this a lot? WOIO has "Everybody Loves Raymond" in HD right now. And I'm pretty sure I've seen "Enterprise" in HD on WUAB.


----------



## Inundated

Update: Whatever the 9:30 PM comedy is on WUAB, someone finally woke up and kicked on the HD switch.


----------



## Daniel Eddy

CBS (WOIO) in HD is here on channel 212.


----------



## jtscherne

Congrats! Maybe the Adelphia logjam will be broken too...


----------



## intermod

The DTC100 in my F38310 is now mapping NBC as 2-4, 2-5, 2-6 for HD,SD and radar. Whats up with that?

/Dan


----------



## Inundated

I just managed to find a decent (for the moment) antenna placement to pull in WKYC-DT again. It was coming in before with what should have been a viewable signal, but no picture. I did a rescan and antenna move and it seems to have done the trick. And with my indoor antenna's VHF dipoles now in something resembling an "X", I'm getting nearly a full signal out of WKYC-DT, the first time that's ever happened.


Regarding the mapping problem - maybe it's this...a message posted in the Roanoke, VA thread by WDBJ-TV/DT general manager Bob Lee. Maybe you need to rescan WKYC-DT...


"A new FCC regulation will require local digital stations to change the way "PIDS" data is inserted into the signal effective January 1. With short notice, most stations are scrambling to make the deadline -- and most won't get it done this week. Changing the way this data is inserted will mean your receiver will no longer be able to understand the signal it is getting until it "re-learns" the station. Each local station will have to make modifications to its encoder, and each is likely to do so on a different day. That means you may well see some stations you have been receiving just disappear over the next couple of weeks -- one at a time -- until your receiver scans again. There is also some concern that certain older ATSC receivers may not be able to decode the new data stream at all."


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rlockshin_
> *I live in Bath and have had WEAO PBS HD for a few months OTA. In the last 2 days signal is gone. Anyone else have this problem ? All other channels come in fine at same signal strength. Ch 49-1 had 93% signal. I am hoping that it is them. Nothing has changed at my end. Any help would be appreciated.*



I called the station this morning. They had some problems on 12/22 and 12/23 but know of no current issues. I am getting a 50-60% signal from 50.1 about 17 miles away from the Copley tower in Strongsville with a Silver Sensor (no amp).


----------



## Inundated

I wasn't here on the 22nd or 23rd, but I have no problems with 50.1 now. It's the same blow-the-doors-out full signal.


----------



## intermod

" Regarding the mapping problem - maybe it's this...a message posted in the Roanoke, VA thread by WDBJ-TV/DT general manager Bob Lee. Maybe you need to rescan WKYC-DT..."


Yup, that did it. Thanx


I also noticed that WVIZ-DT picked up a sub-channel with an SD feed of the Ohio House of Reps. Its not there now.


Dan


----------



## Inundated

Unfortunately, I can't pick up WVIZ-DT here in Akron, with my indoor antenna... not a whit of signal no matter how I position or amplify it. I'm very much looking forward to it going full power next spring/summer...especially if they'll have offerings different from WEAO, which I can pick up here in my teeth. (Now, if only I could wire an antenna from my teeth.







)


WKYC-DT appears somewhat affected by atmospherics or whatever...it's a no show tonight in the very same antenna position I had it in earlier. But the rescan seemed to work fine. I wonder when the other stations in the market are going to do this process in the next week or two.


And I also wonder:


* When Adelphia and Raycom are going to come to an agreement regarding WOIO-DT/WUAB-DT, already...who do I have to sacrifice to make this happen, anyway?


* When other DT stations in this market will go on the air, finally...particularly WBNX-DT. Or heck, even WVPX-DT, if only to get the Akron area newscasts on my digital tuner, even with no HD! I rescan the channels fairly frequently, hoping that these two stations (or others) will show up out of nowhere.


----------



## oachalon

for the people that have comcast hd, cbs just showed up on my box and works great. Good stuff.


----------



## oachalon

didnt see that someone put that just to tell you guys again.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oachalon_
> *for the people that have comcast hd, cbs just showed up on my box and works great. Good stuff.*



Yep, I have it too! Now if Comcast would only get the dual tuner HD DVR's in stock, I'd be set.


----------



## hookbill

Has anyone noticed as of late WKYC is not showing NBC network programs in Dolby 5.1? I know they were having some sound problems a few weeks back and it seems that either them or NBC have elected to just broadcast without the 5.1.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I wasn't here on the 22nd or 23rd, but I have no problems with 50.1 now. It's the same blow-the-doors-out full signal.*



Signal was pretty solid yesterday for me (50-60%), but today, the best I can get is 5-10% (measured on the analog channel as the digital channel shows no signal) no matter how I position the antenna. I called the station and they had no knowledge of any problem. All of my other stations are 90%+ signal (3,5,8,19,43,61).


Is anyone experiencing problems with 50.1 today or is it possible that I was just lucky yesterday in pulling in the stronger signal. It was my first day playing with the Silver Sensor, so I really have no reference point for what to expect on a day-to-day basis. I'm only about 17 miles from the tower.


Any feedback or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Inundated

ajstan - where are you in relation to Copley, where the WEAO-DT stick is?


I have never had any long-standing problem getting WEAO's digital signal. At all. Of course, I'm roughly 7 miles from the tower...which, in case you're wondering, is up Rt. 261 from Rolling Acres Mall, along with WVPX/23 and WONE-FM 97.5.


I also have no problems with a non-amplified indoor antenna getting any of the Cleveland DT stations out of the Parma antenna farm (aside from occasional hassle with WKYC-DT due to its low-VHF allocation on channel 2), and I'm about the same distance from them as you are from WEAO's stick. Unfortunately, WVPX hasn't been able to turn on the digital transmitter yet, so you don't have an A/B comparison from the same site.


----------



## DCSholtis

Anyone here have an email addy for a contact at WEWS Channel 5?!!! Thanks!!


----------



## oachalon

tnt hd should be the next thing comcast should give us.


----------



## ajstan99

Inundated - Thanks for the quick response. I'm in Strongsville, which is NNW of Copley. If the signal you were able to get today was the same as you had yesterday, I may have just been catching a lucky bounce yesterday when I got the 50-60%.


----------



## Inundated

WEAO is about 180KW on their DT allocation (DT 50)...that's one of the lower UHF powers in the market. WUAB-DT 28 is only a little more powerful - 200KW - and it's somewhat closer to you in the Parma antenna farm region.


I don't know how often WEAO-DT gets up into Cleveland, but you should be well within its expected broadcast range (map courtesy of the FCC)... I bet if you got an antenna outside, you'd get it much more reliably. FYI - I'm getting it at full strength even with the antenna pointed away from it, tonight:


----------



## ajstan99

Many thanks for the research and the info. If I can't get 50.1 with an indoor antenna, I may have to punt and just wait for WVIZ to go live at the Parma tower to get PBS on a regular basis.


Interesting note on WUAB being lower power. It was the one station (other than 50.1) that I had trouble pulling in before I got the Silver Sensor.


Thanks again for the help.


----------



## AfricanGrey




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Has anyone noticed as of late WKYC is not showing NBC network programs in Dolby 5.1? I know they were having some sound problems a few weeks back and it seems that either them or NBC have elected to just broadcast without the 5.1.*



Yes! Actually, I have yet to hear any Dolby 5.1 content from any of the OTA digital stations. I understand that only NBC and FOX are occasionally broadcasting in DD 5.1, but I have never heard it.

Perhaps I am expecting too much, but when I compare the DD5.1 sound from a DVD to the DD 5.1 supposedly broadcast from the OTA stations, it is like night and day.

Does anyone know of any OTA programs that use DD 5.1 audio to a discernible extent?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by AfricanGrey_
> *Yes! Actually, I have yet to hear any Dolby 5.1 content from any of the OTA digital stations. I understand that only NBC and FOX are occasionally broadcasting in DD 5.1, but I have never heard it.
> 
> Perhaps I am expecting too much, but when I compare the DD5.1 sound from a DVD to the DD 5.1 supposedly broadcast from the OTA stations, it is like night and day.
> *



Actually I watched Law & Order: SVU on my DVR recorded I believe on Tuesday last night and that broadcast was Dolby 5.1. But that was the first I seen in a while. House, on Fox, is also 5.1.


To your point: Sound on DVD vs broadcast, I would tell you to pick up a copy on DVD of one of your favorite shows. I picked up Dead Like Me, season 1 and I don't see any difference in the Dolby sound from the broadcast and the DVD. I would suggest that the big difference that is really noticeable on broadcast television is sports. Dolby 5.1 football puts you right in the stands (even that annoying guy pops up once in a while behind you.)


----------



## SteveC

The ABC affiliate in Youngstown(channel 36, 33-1) is broadcasting in 5.1. Two shows that I've watched that I know use it are NYPD Blue and Lost.

Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *The ABC affiliate in Youngstown(channel 36, 33-1) is broadcasting in 5.1. Two shows that I've watched that I know use it are NYPD Blue and Lost.
> 
> Steve*



Steve....don't know what your listening to over there, but ABC does not broadcast in 5.1. Lost and NYPD Blue are both ABC shows. The only broadcast networks that are in Dolby 5.1 are NBC and FOX.


----------



## jtscherne

Sure it does... WEWS doesn't.


From the ABC HD FAQ:


Benefit: Digital Sound

Just as your CDs sound better than your old audiocassette tapes, HDTV's digital audio signal sounds better than standard television's analog sound. Also, some HDTV programs include Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound. Properly decoded, each audio track can be sent to a different speaker, creating a three-dimensional sound field in your living room. Many of ABC's prime time programs contain Dolby Digital surround sound for your listening pleasure.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ajstan99_
> *Many thanks for the research and the info. If I can't get 50.1 with an indoor antenna, I may have to punt and just wait for WVIZ to go live at the Parma tower to get PBS on a regular basis.*



You shouldn't have to wait that much longer...as I noted on the thread earlier, WVIZ-DT should be at full power by around early summer of this coming year. They had a long, drawn out legal battle with Infinity Broadcasting (WNCX), where they have their tower, about the digital upgrade. That's been resolved, and WVIZ is in the process of designing and building the digital site.


There's a very fascinating look at Cleveland sites - and a picture of the WVIZ tower - here:

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2004/site-040212.html 


For me, in northwest Akron with an indoor antenna, believe it or not, my strongest Cleveland signal is WQHS-DT. (Too bad it's not in English and doesn't do HD!) Then, it's usually, in relative order of ease, WJW-DT, WEWS-DT, WUAB-DT, WOIO-DT, pretty much even, and then bringing up the "I have to keep moving the aerials" rear, WKYC-DT down in low VHF hell on DT 2. I don't usually have many problems with WUAB, though...once I get 'em, they're usually a solid lock.


WEAO-DT and WDLI-DT are rock solid pretty much no matter where I point the antenna. (WDLI's digital signal at DT 39 - despite being licensed to Canton - is actually over in Brimfield, near Kent, near the WNIR-FM and WAOH-LP 29 facilities off I-76/Rt. 43. I THINK 39 and 29 are on the same tower. 17's analog stick is still out there on U.S. 62 in Louisville.)


----------



## AfricanGrey

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we can put "pressure" on WEWS and WOIO to start broadcasting in DD 5.1?


----------



## Inundated

I'd like to "put pressure" on WOIO/Raycom to finally get off the pot and come to an agreement with Adelphia!











Unfortunately, Raycom is not the most forward thinking broadcast company in the country. And we should be fortunate they're just "passing through" HD on 19/43 and not processing it, or they'd probably make it look worse. Their SD upconvert of the news on the DT channels looks almost worse than an analog signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Sure it does... WEWS doesn't.
> 
> 
> From the ABC HD FAQ:
> 
> 
> Benefit: Digital Sound
> 
> Just as your CDs sound better than your old audiocassette tapes, HDTV's digital audio signal sounds better than standard television's analog sound. Also, some HDTV programs include Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound. Properly decoded, each audio track can be sent to a different speaker, creating a three-dimensional sound field in your living room. Many of ABC's prime time programs contain Dolby Digital surround sound for your listening pleasure.*



Ok, I stand corrected. You know something interesting, I really think that shows like Lost for some reason sound better then most Dolby 5.1 shows on my HTS. If it sounds that good without Dolby 5.1, I'd sure like to see what it sounds like with.


----------



## intermod

Nice find!





Inundated said,


"There's a very fascinating look at Cleveland sites - and a picture of the WVIZ tower - here:
http://www.fybush.com/sites/2004/site-040212.html "


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Nice find!*



Scott's actually a friend of mine, and I've gone with him on some of these trips... we occasionally get a group of people, like we did in Chicago last year. The one where Scott and someone else (not me, sad to say!) got to sit in on Paul Harvey's midday broadcast...I was along on that trip.


Oddly enough, when he did that page, I wasn't! I don't think he's hit the Akron/Canton sites in a page yet. It'd be fun to watch him snaking up Dreisbach Drive...


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> For me, in northwest Akron with an indoor antenna, believe it or not, my strongest Cleveland signal is WQHS-DT. (Too bad it's not in English and doesn't do HD!) Then, it's usually, in relative order of ease, WJW-DT, WEWS-DT, WUAB-DT, WOIO-DT, pretty much even, and then bringing up the "I have to keep moving the aerials" rear, WKYC-DT down in low VHF hell on DT 2. I don't usually have many problems with WUAB, though...once I get 'em, they're usually a solid lock.
> 
> *



Same exact results & strength order here in Twinsburg with outdoor Stealthtenna.


-Todd


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Same exact results & strength order here in Twinsburg with outdoor Stealthtenna.*



I have never had a problem with WQHS-DT's signal. They also blast their audio loud, so you know it's them...not to mention the different language.










It's funny that the strongest DT station in the market is the Univision O&O, in a area with one of the smallest Hispanic populations of any major TV market!


How do you get the Akron/Canton-based signals up there in Twinsburg, specifically WEAO-DT and WDLI-DT? And can you get WVIZ's digital signal from the Whip Antenna Next to the Building?


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah I find it funny too that the strongest station OTA is Univison! ha! Now if we could only get them to go HD with those lovely ladies & we'd be all set!


I definately can't get WVIZ! Luckily I get that with Adelphia for now. I do get a the religious station (not sure the call letters). They are multicasting into a bunch of channels (I don't watch it ever). Is that one of the Akron stations? I also get 50.1 but I haven't paid much attention to know what it is even.


-Todd


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I definately can't get WVIZ! Luckily I get that with Adelphia for now. I do get a the religious station (not sure the call letters). They are multicasting into a bunch of channels (I don't watch it ever). Is that one of the Akron stations? I also get 50.1 but I haven't paid much attention to know what it is even.*



The religious station is Canton's WDLI, analog 17 digital 39. It's the former WJAN-TV 17, now owned by TBN. Their digital stick is actually in the same location as WVPX/23, in Copley Township not terribly far from Rolling Acres Mall.











They have applied to move their analog 17 there as well.


50.1 is Akron's PBSer, WEAO (the analog 49 half of PBS 45 & 49). They're also over there in Copley with WVPX and WDLI-DT. They run the PBS HD feed 24 hours OTA, which I believe is the same thing you're seeing out of WVIZ's HD feed on Adelphia.


In my "funny question" department - today's one of those days I'm getting WKYC-DT 2 with surprising signal strength. This happened a few weeks ago, and I'm trying to remember what the weather was like...it has to be atmospheric, because A) it's not usually this strong and B) they don't have any facilities changes in the works. Is anyone else being surprised by WKYC-DT's signal today? I seem to recall the last time this happened, a whole bunch of people were surprised.


----------



## iamatis

**************Ok guys it worked.*****************


Thanks to everyone on the site. I have gone from only having NBC HD to having CBS HD, FOX HD and NBC HD. The only reason I don't have ABC HD is because the reps said they are still in talks, and that since I'm in the "NYC AREA " it will show up when they are done. I kept my billing address the same while "moving" to NYC. On the first try the rep didn't know how to split the BILLING and the PHYSICAL address up. She sounded like she didn't know what she was doing. So of course I called right back. The next rep transferred me to the "movers dept." where they made my physical address in NYC. It took less than 5 min on the phone with the rep. As I was talking to her, I saw the changes on my HD tivo. My local area channels went away, and then the tivo downloaded new info. DONE!


Now to address some of the previous posts. Do I feel bad that I had to lie, I mean move to get HD. Look at it this way? When the speed is 55, do you do 60 or 65? 75% of us do. Are we breaking the law? Yes. Do you really care? No. Are you going to do it again? Yes. That is the same way I feel about this whole FCC law. We are rebroadcasting the same programs in different markets using up all the bandwidth, make other great channels like history channel look like crap, for what? Local affiliates money?


{Soapbox mode on}

We are the ones who are spearheading this whole HD thing. I never buy what I see on TV anyway because it was ALREADY discussed here or in other forums before they put it on TV. We are paying big dollars to watch TV!!! Why should we have to go through all this hassle! We are paying for OUR hobby and the GOV. plus affiliates are sticking it to us! That's not right! I don't care what all you haters say. This is OUR hdtv. (Matter of fact I'll make a new thread for this subject.)

{Soapbox mode off)


I have a new problem. UPN, WB and all the other local networks are not coming in. I think it's due to the spot beam sat not transmitting those channels over in Ohio. When I lived in Columbus, OH I could move to Cincinnati, Ohio or Cleveland, OHIO and get the locals there.


Also I'm surprised that noone has posted this here, about moving to GET the locals. I really want to here your thoughts on this New Years Eve. The bad and good.


----------



## iamatis

ha ha ha

sorry guys.

wrong forum.

my bad.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by iamatis_
> *ha ha ha
> 
> sorry guys.
> 
> wrong forum.
> 
> my bad.*



no problem, enjoyed reading your story - might've missed it otherwise.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *In my "funny question" department - today's one of those days I'm getting WKYC-DT 2 with surprising signal strength. This happened a few weeks ago, and I'm trying to remember what the weather was like...it has to be atmospheric, because A) it's not usually this strong and B) they don't have any facilities changes in the works. Is anyone else being surprised by WKYC-DT's signal today? I seem to recall the last time this happened, a whole bunch of people were surprised.*



With my old antenna, WKYC was usually around 50% signal, but I did get a bump to 80% and higher on occasion, including when others noted the apparent signal strength increase. Now it's above 90% but I don't know if it's the signal or my new antenna.


----------



## hookbill

For those interested, I shot an email out to Adelphia regarding the quality of the digital channels. I was told that they are digital and if I had any questions as th whether they were or not to unplug the box and see if I can see them without a converter.


They didn't bother to tell me how I was suppose to see channel 800 since most televisions don't go past channel 175.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *For those interested, I shot an email out to Adelphia regarding the quality of the digital channels. I was told that they are digital and if I had any questions as th whether they were or not to unplug the box and see if I can see them without a converter.*



You didn't ask them if they were digital, you asked them about the quality. Yipes.


Very few People With Clues at Adelphia...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ajstan99_
> *With my old antenna, WKYC was usually around 50% signal, but I did get a bump to 80% and higher on occasion, including when others noted the apparent signal strength increase. Now it's above 90% but I don't know if it's the signal or my new antenna.*



I'm still getting a strong OTA signal out of WKYC-DT today, and the sky conditions are completely different...yesterday, it was grey and overcast, and today it's clear and sunny. There must be other things going on here...as I said, I know WKYC-DT hasn't increased power or anything, as they don't even have such an increase in the FCC pipeline.


One other thought I had - DT 2 is prone to electrical interference. Maybe some of that is less over the holidays (?).


My STB doesn't have a numerical signal strength indicator, but I'd say it's about 70-75% right now, judging from the signal strength bar. That's pretty much the best WKYC-DT has ever been for me, even with the antenna in this very same position.


----------



## ParsonsBri

All,

Check your receivers. HD Feeds for ABC East and West up and running this morning on 86 and 87. Looks great!


----------



## DCSholtis

721'd here on 86 and 87. Luckily I get a strong signal from WEWS so the NY/LA feeds arent needed. Only O & O I get is the NY FOX HD


----------



## Inundated

No, I don't have DirecTV, so it's not on my receiver.







Not everyone here has DirecTV...


And in Cleveland, you won't get it anyway. WEWS is not owned by ABC. The ABC HD feeds on D* will only show up if the affiliate is owned by the network, or if you have other circumstances that get you distant affiliates...DNS, etc.


Cleveland area folks WILL, like DC above, get FOX out of NYC, because the network owns WJW/8.


----------



## wfwiles

Does anyone else in Lake County area have Comcast HDTV box. On ch 210 intermittently I get the video blanking out, sometimes for a second or two and other times longer. It starts with a narrow band of tearing at the top then blanking. There is no interruption in the sound. No problem in OTA signal. I haven't noticed it on the other HD channels but they recently turned on 212 (CBS) so I haven't watched it much yet. Anyone else seeing this...

Bill


----------



## Inundated

WEWS has been running the Fiesta Bowl in upconverted SD.


I gave 'em a call, and it's in HD now.


"This ABC BCS bowl game in High Definition is brought to you by Inundated!"


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WEWS has been running the Fiesta Bowl in upconverted SD.
> 
> 
> I gave 'em a call, and it's in HD now.
> 
> 
> "This ABC BCS bowl game in High Definition is brought to you by Inundated!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Thanks, Inundated. It looks good. So did the Rose Bowl, actually.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *You didn't ask them if they were digital, you asked them about the quality. Yipes.
> 
> 
> Very few People With Clues at Adelphia...*



I wish I saved a copy of what I said to them but what I told them besides the basic question was that the sound on my home theater system wasn't reading digital, it was reading converted analog, and I mentioned I spoke to you (not your name, just to someone who lives around the Akron area) and they said the picture quality sucked too.


None of those issues were addressed in their response.


----------



## oachalon

wfwiles i have comcast hd in lake county and i am not having that problem on that channel or any of the other channels. Mine is working perfect.


----------



## bedo




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'm still getting a strong OTA signal out of WKYC-DT today, and the sky conditions are completely different...yesterday, it was grey and overcast, and today it's clear and sunny. There must be other things going on here...as I said, I know WKYC-DT hasn't increased power or anything, as they don't even have such an increase in the FCC pipeline.
> 
> 
> One other thought I had - DT 2 is prone to electrical interference. Maybe some of that is less over the holidays (?).
> 
> 
> My STB doesn't have a numerical signal strength indicator, but I'd say it's about 70-75% right now, judging from the signal strength bar. That's pretty much the best WKYC-DT has ever been for me, even with the antenna in this very same position.*



I checked and mine is still 0-5%, I have never been able to get WKYC. I get all the other OTA's. I live in Reminderville, pretty much right in the middle of Twinsburg and Aurora. Just curious if any others have this problem.


----------



## Wrager

I never get a signal from KYC. I have a roof mounted Stealth and live in Barberton.


----------



## kpollari

FWIW, I just came back from vacation and couldn't receive wkyc. So, I rescanned for digital stations on my TV and it found it again. It's always been one of the easiest stations for me to receive. I live in Ohio City and have a SquareShooter in my attic.


Kermit


----------



## intermod

Hi,


It happened on or about 12/28/04. Inundated reported the FCC required

a change in the PSIP data. See page 103 in this thread.


/Dan


----------



## Inundated

I'm not sure if any of the other stations had to do the PSIP changes at the last minute...I didn't lose any of the other OTA signals in the past few days.


The other stations...their changes either A) didn't affect receivers or B) did it earlier. I'm guessing, too, that WKYC-DT is one of the few multicasters in the market.


----------



## paule123

Most of Wide Open West's HD tier is dark tonight (channels 200 - 211). I wonder if it's related to the "springtime" thaw we're having now. I had problems last spring with the digitals thanks to moisture in the taps on the pole.


----------



## Inundated

So much for WKYC-DT OTA again. It's back to its usual bouncing-can't-lock-upon signal. (Unlike the PSIP issue before, it's at least trying to display a picture.)


My strong suspicion is that there are sources of electrical interference that were turned off for the holidays...as the signal was fine this weekend. Channel 2 (WKYC's DT allocation) is especially sensitive to such interference.


I guess WKYC-DT is going to mostly be a no-show until A) I get a huge antenna, which I can't do here or B) maybe the 5th generation receiver will handle this signal better. Oh well. At least I can watch 'em on Adelphia, but this is forestalling a move to a dish for me.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DCSholtis_
> *721'd here on 86 and 87. Luckily I get a strong signal from WEWS so the NY/LA feeds arent needed. Only O & O I get is the NY FOX HD*



86 and 87 are 721'd here as well. Fox on 88 and 89 are 721'd as well. How are you getting NY FOX HD on D* here in the Cleveland area?


My DirecTV setup is at the office in Mayfield Village and I haven't "moved" anywhere


----------



## Shark73

I have a waiver for ABC. Fox is an O & O....you need to call D* and type in ext 721 when asked for the ext # on your screen. Ask the first level CSR for the HD group or DNS group. Tell them that you live in Cleveland and want Fox HD turned on.


----------



## gass

That's all well and good but 8-1 is the best signal I got way down here in south Portage Co. So will this work with CBS and NBC? thier signal stinks.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gass_
> *That's all well and good but 8-1 is the best signal I got way down here in south Portage Co. So will this work with CBS and NBC? thier signal stinks.*



No. You would need to have waivers in place already to get CBS or NBC HD from DirecTv.


----------



## Inundated

And even if CBS and NBC were O&O's here, which they are not... you might have gotten zapped anyway by WKBN or WFMJ in Youngstown, which likely put a grade B signal over much of Portage County. No such problem with FOX/WJW... not only is WJW owned by the network, but their affiliate in Youngstown is an LPTV combo that doesn't get outside the market.


----------



## ajstan99

Anyone else having trouble with 5-1 OTA tonight? All other Cleveland signals are coming in strong.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ajstan99_
> *Anyone else having trouble with 5-1 OTA tonight? All other Cleveland signals are coming in strong.*



Coming in perfectly here in Medina OTA. Good game.


----------



## ajstan99

Thanks for the quick reply Zman. Very odd. I'm getting a full signal on 5-0, but still nothing at all on 5-1. Doesn't appear to be a multi-path issue.


----------



## intermod

WVIZ-dt 26.????


WVIZ-DT looks like thier PSIP is screwed up. keeps flashing the ID and

the subchannel is not correct. It also puts my set into sat. mode as well asl

resettting the time to 1970.


/Dan


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ajstan99_
> *Anyone else having trouble with 5-1 OTA tonight? All other Cleveland signals are coming in strong.*



UPDATE: I rescanned the channels. 5-1 was not detected. Neither was 15-1. Every time I punched in 5-1 on the remote I would immediately get redirected to 5-0. I then tried going to 15-1 and finally 5-1 showed up at 95% signal strength but still drops to 0 every so often. Maybe WEWS did that PSIP thing last night?


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *86 and 87 are 721'd here as well. Fox on 88 and 89 are 721'd as well. How are you getting NY FOX HD on D* here in the Cleveland area?
> 
> 
> My DirecTV setup is at the office in Mayfield Village and I haven't "moved" anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Call up the Eligibility Dept at D* tell em to activate Channel 88 for you. Channel 8, WJW is a FOX O&O.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ajstan99_
> *UPDATE: I rescanned the channels. 5-1 was not detected. Neither was 15-1. Every time I punched in 5-1 on the remote I would immediately get redirected to 5-0. I then tried going to 15-1 and finally 5-1 showed up at 95% signal strength but still drops to 0 every so often. Maybe WEWS did that PSIP thing last night?*



I've been watching since 8 tonight with no problems at all. 95% signal strength with no dropouts. I haven't done any rescans or anything, either.


----------



## cneubert

Does anyone else have PSIP problems with PBS? On my HD TiVO, I get two channels for PBS. It shows up as 49.1 and 50.1. 50.1 is the only one that works, but the programming information only shows up on 49.1.


----------



## wfwiles

Removed Quote, wrong message quoted......



It looks like the problem is a compatibility issue with the cable box and the Audio Authority 1154 switch. OTA box works fine thru it. Connected the cable box directly th TV and haven't seen any dropout for a couple days. e-mailed AA but no responce. Guess I'll be looking for another switch....


----------



## hookbill

Half way through I got pixelation and lost of sound. Came here to see if anybody else had problems, if it is weather related or ota problem or cable company.


I wasn't watching live, I was watching on my 8300 DVR.


----------



## AfricanGrey




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Half way through I got pixelation and lost of sound. Came here to see if anybody else had problems, if it is weather related or ota problem or cable company.
> 
> 
> I wasn't watching live, I was watching on my 8300 DVR.*



Yes, I lost LOST about midway through. I am using OTA and we were having a lot of freezing rain at the time, so I guess we blame mother nature this time.


----------



## jtscherne

Over on the programming section, they are discussing ESPN2HD, which announced at CES that Adelphia had an agreement to carry the channel (along with Directv). I wonder if this means that it might actually show up today (the channel goes live at 7:00 PM ET tonight).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Over on the programming section, they are discussing ESPN2HD, which announced at CES that Adelphia had an agreement to carry the channel (along with Directv). I wonder if this means that it might actually show up today (the channel goes live at 7:00 PM ET tonight).*



I heard it was suppose to be sometime in January, so if not tonight probably real soon.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

In order to comply with FCC regulations, I have to make some PSIP changes to WFMJ-HD and WBCB on 21-1 and 21-2 today at 12:30 PM. If you're getting us on cable we will go away for awhile until the cable techs rescan their tuners. For you OTA people, you will probably have to re-enter channel 20 or 20-1, or do a rescan to get us back. What you have to do depends on your particular set top box. In some of the older set top boxes it may be necessary to power it off and back on. If you've monitored any of the other threads in the Info and Reception area, you'll see this is going on around the country as many broadcasters that have been on the air for a year or more are catching up with changing rules. Sorry for the inconvienince, but if it's any consolation, this will be a bigger pain for me than you.


----------



## paule123

I am getting the Fox East feed on DirecTV channel 88 now. After getting the run-around on the phone about this and endless hold times I decided to punt and e-mail customer service. Believe it or not (a mere 2 days later), I got a friendly e-mail telling me the channel is activated!


-- Paul


I used the generic feedback form here:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/glb/Form_Feedback.dsp 


Select "HDTV" as the topic and fill in your name, account number, etc. My email read like this:


***

Hello,

I would like to get the FoxHD feeds turned on for my HTL-HD box. I understand that my Cleveland Fox station WJW is a FOX O&O station and as such I am permitted to view the Fox East/West coast HD feeds on channel 88/89.

Thanks.

***


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by AfricanGrey_
> *Yes, I lost LOST about midway through. I am using OTA and we were having a lot of freezing rain at the time, so I guess we blame mother nature this time.*



Great! At least I wasn't the only one. I'm on TimeWarner Akron. I'm just curious how lost I will be since I lost Lost last night.


----------



## jtscherne

What a pain... I tried to watch it, but then the box rebooted. I assume the problems continued for the entire episode. I also taped Alias, so I don't know if that was messed up too or not.


----------



## hookbill

FYI it did come back on for the last 15 minutes. Initially it was in 480i but after a couple of minutes it went to 720p.


My wife and I kind of had fun filling in the blanks. Actually because you had a general idea of what was going on it wasn't too difficult to figure out just by watching. We added our own dialog just for laughs.


----------



## jtscherne

I finally had to give up. Everytime I tried to watch it the box would re-boot at the same part. My recording of Alias also failed (rebooted after about 1 minute). Luckily I Tivo'd Alias, so I didn't miss the actual episode...


----------



## SteveC

No problem on the ABC affiliate(ch 36, 33-1) in Youngstown. Plus the sound is DD 5.1.


----------



## padstack

Hi all! I recently went to antennaweb and they tell me I'm within 5 miles of all of the stations I want to tune in. I can tune in most with my cheap-o indoor UHF antenna. The only one I can't get is NBC, but it says I'm within a mile of the tower. ANy help? Thanks in advance for any responses!


Tim


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by padstack_
> *Hi all! I recently went to antennaweb and they tell me I'm within 5 miles of all of the stations I want to tune in. I can tune in most with my cheap-o indoor UHF antenna. The only one I can't get is NBC, but it says I'm within a mile of the tower. ANy help? Thanks in advance for any responses!*



Hi, Tim, and welcome to our busy little group!


You can read the thread and you'll get the idea why WKYC is so hard to nab. They operate on DT channel 2, which is the only TV channel in the spectrum worse than their analog channel, 3. DT 2 is incredibly susceptible to electrical noise, and technically speaking, an antenna to match it should be something on the order of 90 inches long.


I don't mean to say you won't be able to get them...you're really close. And if that antenna is really UHF only, it won't do you any good on WKYC-DT...try a standard set of rabbit ears and see if it works for you on VHF, where WKYC-DT is. If it doesn't, you could have to twist, turn and contort the rabbit ears...but a mile out, maybe just switching to something that handles VHF will help.


----------



## padstack

I'm using rabbit ears. MAybe it's just not meant to be!







I'll work on it some more.


I'm in kind of a hole in seven hills. There are a few big trees around me too. I put the rabbit ears in the attic to try to help some, but I guess I'm still going to need to "finagle" a bit!


Thanks for the welcome!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by padstack_
> *I'm in kind of a hole in seven hills. There are a few big trees around me too. I put the rabbit ears in the attic to try to help some, but I guess I'm still going to need to "finagle" a bit!*



You'd think WKYC-DT would come in, in your teeth, there in Seven Hills, eh?










We had someone a ways back in this thread who lived not far from you, and was under a mile from one of the local stations...WEWS-DT, I believe...and was having trouble picking it up. I thought that perhaps WEWS was literally "aiming over his head". I don't know if there's any truth to that, or if the same's happening to you










Others on the thread here may give you help with a decent VHF antenna. Yeah, that seems kind of odd since you're near the station's tower. There may be other electrical interference issues going on here, though.


Good luck!


----------



## padstack

I would buy into the "shoot over my head" theory. That's exactly what 3 different cell phone companies have told me was happening wiht their signals @ my house. I can turn off of Crossview (which is just of of ROckside & I-77) and have a full signal. I turn onto E ridgewood - full signal. About 100 yards up is my house and the signal drops to 0.


Maybe that is the problem w/ the digital signal...


Oh well. I pick everything else up perfect. RIght now, a roof-top antenna isn't worth it for just NBC. I even tried putting one inside my attic (signal was worse), tried one of the fancy rabbit ears w/ a booster (signal was worse). NOthing has worked any better than my $10 set of Wal-Mart Rabbit ears from my old 20" cheapo TV from college.


I guess it could be worse!


----------



## intermod

Hi,


It sounds like multipath. I had the same problem with 5 (15) accross the street from me. My son and I hooked up the same rabbit ears you have (it sounds like) to the back of my set, tossed em' on the floor behind it and everything was cool. UHF antennas are "STressed" just to cover the UHF band. Off resonance operation of an antenna are 1% sceince, 1% installation quality and 98% luck. Well if you still have that feedline running up tp the attic

you could just cut a dipole for 2 (60mcy) and thumb tac it to your attic rafters.


Welcome to the group!


/Dan


PS. Can you get WVIZ-DT 26-1?




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by padstack_
> 
> 
> Maybe that is the problem w/ the digital signal...
> 
> 
> Oh well. I pick everything else up perfect. RIght now, a roof-top antenna isn't worth it for just NBC. I even tried putting one inside my attic (signal was worse), tried one of the fancy rabbit ears w/ a booster (signal was worse). NOthing has worked any better than my $10 set of Wal-Mart Rabbit ears from my old 20" cheapo TV from college.
> 
> 
> I guess it could be worse! [/b]


----------



## padstack

Nope. I can't get WVIZ-DT yet. Is that one on a VHF or UHF frequency?


I'm pretty ignorant on the dipole thing you mentioned. I looked it up on Yahoo! and found a link to http://www.angelfire.com/mb/amandx/dipole.html and it gives good instructions on it, but I need the frequency in MHz.


Thanks for the help so far!


----------



## intermod

Here ya go!

http://kyes.com/antenna/rabbitear.html 


also:

Try this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...n&pagenumber=3 

Channel 2 is 54-60 MHZ, sorry about the old-school MCY.

WVIZ-DT is on channel 26.1 althogh my PSIP is mapping it 26.3 now a days.

They transmit from state and Brookpark. Keep us posted please.


/Dan


----------



## padstack

Sweet! I'll give it a shot and keep you posted!


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by turninunits_
> *Hello everyone, I was hoping some of you may be able to shed some light on an antenna issue I am having...
> 
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with an indoor\\attic setup. If so specifically what\\ how did you get it to work? I am able to get the stations with 45-50 signal strength, but only one or two at a time, I have to move the antenna and swivel it as well to get others.. Anyone currently in my area having success, thank you in advance for your help
> 
> 
> Chad*



I live in Canton and, using a ChannelMaster 4228 (UHF only) antenna in the attic, I can reliably receive all Cleveland channels except as you might expect WKYC-DT. Even WOIO-DT comes in fine using the 4228.


----------



## bkuner




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by turninunits_
> *Hello everyone, I was hoping some of you may be able to shed some light on an antenna issue I am having..
> 
> 
> I have to move the antenna and swivel it as well to get others.. Anyone currently in my area having success, thank you in advance for your help
> 
> 
> Chad*



I live in the Fairlawn area and am getting decent reception. I have a Channel Master 3018 Near Fringe antenna mounted in the Attic. I get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1, 50.1 & .2 in the 70 to 95% range. They occasionally drop in the 40 - 50% range and lock is intermittent. I to not have to move the antenna to get these. I have it basically pointed in the direction of 3,5,8 antennas about 350 degrees. WKYC-DT 3.1 and 3.2 are consistently at 41% with no lock. I am considering adding a amplifier to see if that helps bring in 3 as well as help with the intermittent issues with the other channels.


Brian


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by turninunits_
> *Hello everyone, I was hoping some of you may be able to shed some light on an antenna issue I am having..*



Welcome to the group, Chad!


As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm probably in a better position to receive the Cleveland signals with an indoor antenna. I'm closer to the Parma antenna farm than you are, and may be higher up, too. But the others here have some great suggestions...the upshot is that you'll probably have to put a ChannelMaster 4228 or similar (Antennas Direct DB4, I believe) up in the attic. It'll get you much better results up there than any of the indoor stuff you've messed with.


And don't expect much out of WKYC-DT (2, the digital half of Channel 3). Look above for help on that station. There's way too much electrical noise and such. And the 4228 is a UHF-only antenna, which means it'll probably still get you WOIO-DT (DT 10) since it's on high VHF, but won't get you WKYC-DT. You might check into the Antenna topic at the top of this section and ask about a way to add a separate VHF antenna if you really wanna get WKYC/NBC. I get it very occasionally with my indoor antenna, but my running thought is that it's only because there's less electrical interference in general on holidays.


----------



## Argee

Do we have any idea when (if) WEWS and WOIO will go 5.1 sound?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Argee_
> *Do we have any idea when (if) WEWS and WOIO will go 5.1 sound?*



I haven't heard any rumblings about that.


At times, I'm surprised WOIO isn't only in mono.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I'm in Medina, and I get all Cleveland stations at 80-90% using a 120" Rat Shack antenna in the attic. If you're trying an outdoor type antenna in the attic, make sure you're pointing the Yagi end (the Y-shaped end) northwest toward the antenna farm in Parma. With a little trial and error, you should be able to pull in most everything including the PBS station broadcasting from Copley. The mapping is 50.1, but I can't remember the broadcast channel. It should be strong enough for you that you shouldn't have to tweak or turn the antenna to get it since you're in Akron.


You can also check www.antennweb.org to get recommendations for the type of antenna and orientiation necessary for your specific street-level location.


Good luck!


----------



## Inundated

The Akron-based PBS station, with tower in southern Copley near Rolling Acres Mall, would be WEAO...the analog 49 half of "PBS 45 & 49". The other part is WNEO/Alliance. 49/50 is meant to serve Akron/Canton, and 45/46 is meant to serve the Youngstown market, with a tower down in Salem.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Did I miss a post? I just got back from a week in Vegas at the CES. I just was looking at the Adelphia channel grid and what do I see: WOIO on channel 804. Finally! Just in time for the divisional games. Anyone know when this happened?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *(Not related to HD)
> 
> 
> Channel 1 has a new announcement. Starting tomorrow, they'll be passing along digital signals for the local channels in the 800 range, including both CBS and WUAB. An earlier poster mentioned these channels on his guide and it's obvious they were in a middle of a test at the time.*



800's are the digital feeds....not HD.


----------



## hoops10

Does WOIO plan on boosting power at any time in the near future? I am close to Youngstown and I can get WJW Fox 8-1 over the air and 43 WUAB over the air but I can't get a good signal from WOIO 19.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hoops10_
> *Does WOIO plan on boosting power at any time in the near future? I am close to Youngstown and I can get WJW Fox 8-1 over the air and 43 WUAB over the air but I can't get a good signal from WOIO 19.*



I believe they are restricted in regards to the amount of signal they can send due to a station in Detroit. Boosting their power would interfere with that Detroit station, thus they are at the max allowed by the FCC.


That is the story I heard a while back. I can't verify.


-Todd


----------



## SteveC

Hoops,

Any word as to when the CBS affiliate in Youngstown(WKBN) will start broadcasting digitally? I'm hoping they will have better equipment than WOIO and actually be able to do 5.1 audio. Any idea as to what the cause of the delay is?

Steve


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Hoops,
> 
> Any word as to when the CBS affiliate in Youngstown(WKBN) will start broadcasting digitally? I'm hoping they will have better equipment than WOIO and actually be able to do 5.1 audio. Any idea as to what the cause of the delay is?
> 
> Steve*



There are some thoughts about WKBN-DT in the Youngstown HDTV topic in this forum.


----------



## hoops10

I have sent numerous emails to WKBN and have received no response from them at all. CBS is the only station I can't get OTA and it bothers the hell out of me.


----------



## Inundated

Don't hold your breath on WKBN-DT or its equipment being any better than WOIO.


They're sister stations. Raycom owns both WOIO and WKBN.


----------



## SteveC

Tony,

Thanks for the heads up on the Youngstown thread. For some reason it never occurred to me that one might exist. I've subscribed to the thread and sent an email to [email protected] asking what their time-frame is. I'll post any response to both forums.

Steve


----------



## Inundated

Update: I'm told Raycom no longer owns WKBN....it's a company called Piedmont.


I'm pretty sure Raycom had WKBN at one point in the not so distant past.


----------



## Inundated

Mea culpa (#2): I believe I was confusing Raycom with Gocom, which DID own WKBN until the sale to Piedmont. Sorry 'bout that!


----------



## intermod

Hoops,



> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hoops10_
> *I have sent numerous emails to WKBN and have received no response from them at all. CBS is the only station I can't get OTA and it bothers the hell out of me.*




Yeah, that would bother me too, they run plenty of power on one of the biggest sticks in NE Ohio. They are the station I use for go/no-go testing of

propagation. Can you get anything out of Pitt. or Erie?


/Dan


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Yeah, that would bother me too, they run plenty of power on one of the biggest sticks in NE Ohio. They are the station I use for go/no-go testing of
> 
> propagation. Can you get anything out of Pitt. or Erie?*



I believe he was talking about WKBN's DT signal, which is not up yet...as far as I know.


----------



## intermod

Ooops, My bad.


/Dan


I believe he was talking about WKBN's DT signal, which is not up yet...as far as I know.


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Shark73_
> *800's are the digital feeds....not HD.*



I got all excited for nothing. I was in a post CES stupor.


----------



## galevin

Hey, folks, I'm new to the forum. Glad you're all here.


Awhile back, there was some discussion of the digital local channels on Adelphia, in the 800- range. A few people commented that those channels didn't look much better than analog. I recall seeing the message on Adelphia about this, and I think there's some confusion.


The message stated that, for those with digital cable boxes, channels 3,4,5,6,8....would now be digital. It said something to the effect of "if you're having trouble with those stations, the analog stations will now be in the 800-range.


I don't know how this works technically, but presumably those without digital boxes still get the analog versions on channels 3,4,5,6,8....


I've done a bit of A-B comparisons, and the very subjective results seem to confirm this. A Cavs game last week looked better on 6 than it did on 806.


----------



## hookbill

Hi galevin, and welcome.


I've done some comparisons too. The problem I have is that it doesn't look as good as all the other digital channels. I will admit the sound is better through my Home Theater System.


Some days in comparing them it does look better. Like watching football last weekend, I noticed the game on 804 looked better and sounded better then on channel 4 (WOIO).


I still think it can be improved. The best way to improve this would be to let us have ALL the digital stations in HD.


----------



## handsworth

This is what I got from the technical people at Adelphia. The digital channels ,3,4,5,6,8 and the HD channels 703,704,705 and 708 are using the the same interface or "cage" to relay the broadcasts. The 800's are analog and are there for backup in case of equipment failure. If you do not have a cable box, then your local channels are analog. However the audio coming from these channels will vary.


----------



## Inundated

The 800's look bad to me vs. even the analog, at least with our two problem children, 19 and 43 (4/6 and 804/806). I can't figure out why they don't at least look identical...except that maybe the encoding equipment to deliver them to the digital boxes is encoding the snow on the analog channels.


----------



## DCSholtis

Anyone with D* lose their locals just now due to the weather?? Its kinda weird first time thats ever happened to me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DCSholtis_
> *Anyone with D* lose their locals just now due to the weather?? Its kinda weird first time thats ever happened to me.*



I don't have D* but I'm not surprised you had that problem. My XM sattelite radio kept loosing it's signal earlier in the evening.


As a former Direct TV customer I can tell you that you will experience that from time to time, probably more during severe weather in the Spring.


Those little interuptions doesn't stop Direct TV from being better then anything cable offers!


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Those little interuptions doesn't stop Direct TV from being better then anything cable offers!*



Amen.


I've never had a weather interruption that has lasted more than 15 minutes, and then only when the leading edge of a very strong thunderstorm or very heavy snowstorm rolls through. Although when we had this last ice/snow storm, I did lose about half of the channels (probably one half of one of stalks on the dish worth) due to some ice buildup. I wasn't going to climb up on the roof to clear it off, and it took about 3 or 4 days for it to melt.


Problem was that it took out all of the kids channels. Arrgh. Didn't realize just how few kids DVDs we had!










'Bout time the kids turned the thing off!


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *
> 
> Those little interuptions doesn't stop Direct TV from being better then anything cable offers!*



I agree with you there 100% it was just weird to see the locals go down as they are spotbeamed and usually they are the only channels that stay up during bad weather conditions. Though I have to say they weren't down long. Everything local and non local came back about 1am


----------



## Chris Isble

I am considering upgrading to digtial cable, and I have a couple of questions for any Adelphia customers using the HD/DVR:


Does the DVR have video inputs that can be used as a source for recording? I would like to send the output of my HD OTA tuner into the DVR, so I can record from the HD channels that Adelphia does not yet carry.


Does Adelphia offer more than one model number or configuration of DVR? If so, what should I ask for?


Thanks,


Chris.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chris Isble_
> *I am considering upgrading to digtial cable, and I have a couple of questions for any Adelphia customers using the HD/DVR:
> 
> 
> Does the DVR have video inputs that can be used as a source for recording? I would like to send the output of my HD OTA tuner into the DVR, so I can record from the HD channels that Adelphia does not yet carry.
> 
> 
> Does Adelphia offer more than one model number or configuration of DVR? If so, what should I ask for?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Chris.*



Question #1. No, I don't believe you can do that. Inundated can tell you for sure but I don't see how that would be possible.


Question #2. I would ask for the SA 8300. It has an active HDMI output and currently it is the only one to have that. Plus it has a pass thru option which means it will automatically select the right screen for you. Just make sure you do the set up, the Adelphia rep will probably just set it at 1080i.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chris Isble_
> *I am considering upgrading to digtial cable, and I have a couple of questions for any Adelphia customers using the HD/DVR:
> 
> 
> Does the DVR have video inputs that can be used as a source for recording? I would like to send the output of my HD OTA tuner into the DVR, so I can record from the HD channels that Adelphia does not yet carry.
> 
> 
> Does Adelphia offer more than one model number or configuration of DVR? If so, what should I ask for?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Chris.*



Question #1. No, I don't believe you can do that. Inundated can tell you for sure but I don't see how that would be possible.


Question #2. I would ask for the SA 8300. It has an active HDMI output and currently it is the only one to have that. Plus it has a pass thru option which means it will automatically select the right screen for you. Just make sure you do the set up, the Adelphia rep will probably just set it at 1080i.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chris Isble_
> *Does the DVR have video inputs that can be used as a source for recording? I would like to send the output of my HD OTA tuner into the DVR, so I can record from the HD channels that Adelphia does not yet carry.*



I have an 8000HD...and believe it or not, there are actually "VIDEO/AUDIO INPUT" jacks on the back.


That's the good news.


The bad news? The video input is analog composite, not component or DVI.


The worse news? Even if that's what you were looking for, I don't see anywhere in the system where you could record that video, or even watch it.


So, basically...no.


Hookbill has the 8300HD. I've thought about upgrading, but I don't do DVI/HDMI and I don't know what advantages it'd provide me otherwise over the 8000HD. Oddly enough, the 8000HD also has a DVI port, though I don't know if it's active in the current software version.


Either way, starting anew, I'd say definitely get the 8300.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I have an 8000HD...and believe it or not, there are actually "VIDEO/AUDIO INPUT" jacks on the back.
> 
> 
> That's the good news.
> 
> 
> The bad news? The video input is analog composite, not component or DVI.
> 
> 
> The worse news? Even if that's what you were looking for, I don't see anywhere in the system where you could record that video, or even watch it.
> 
> 
> So, basically...no.
> 
> 
> Hookbill has the 8300HD. I've thought about upgrading, but I don't do DVI/HDMI and I don't know what advantages it'd provide me otherwise over the 8000HD. Oddly enough, the 8000HD also has a DVI port, though I don't know if it's active in the current software version.
> 
> 
> Either way, starting anew, I'd say definitely get the 8300.*




Right now I am using composite out of my LG LST-3510a to a VHS VCR to record HD. Even though it's no longer HD, it is still a better picture than VHS off the cable. I figured if it was possible, the DVR should do a better job than the VHS.


When I asked Adelphia, they told me that I would be able to record this way. That's why I immediately went online to ask here.










Any documentation I found on the 8000 said it had video inputs "for future use". I couldn't find much on the 8300. If those inputs were enabled in the 8300, it would be a big deal for me.


I'm already using the one DVI input on my TV for the LG box, so the DVR will be connected via component. But as you say, it makes sense to ask for the newest box.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chris Isble_
> *
> 
> 
> Does the DVR have video inputs that can be used as a source for recording? I would like to send the output of my HD OTA tuner into the DVR, so I can record from the HD channels that Adelphia does not yet carry.
> *



No such consumer device exists. To convert an uncompressed analog HDTV signal back to a digital datastream would take a massive amount of computing power to do any kind of a reasonable job. Even more significant would be the size of the datastream produced - it would eat hard drives for breakfast. All present HD capable DVRs operate the same way - they simply write the incoming compressed digital datastream to the hard drive. No conversion is needed. Unless your STB has been expensively modified to output the raw digital datastream to an outboard storage device(DVHS deck), you are out of luck. Your best options are to either get a STB/DVR combo device such as an LG LST-3410A or get a PC based HD tuner card that writes the digital datastream to the PC's hard drive. I have one of the latter and it works great. These cards cost between $150 and $250.

Steve


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chris Isble_
> *
> 
> I'm already using the one DVI input on my TV for the LG box, so the DVR will be connected via component. But as you say, it makes sense to ask for the newest box.*



If you promise not to tell anyone (







), I don't even HAVE an HD set now. I'm feeding analog 480i component video to my SD Toshiba 32", and it still looks pretty darn good. I guess I have a good set.


I hope you find what you're looking for on the 8300HD...if the inputs were somehow enabled and you were OK with recording HD on composite video (which isn't as good as even 480i component, tho), then I guess that'd work.


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia has made the NFL Network HD feed live on channel 778, and its SD counterpart's on 178.


Note: the only actual HD show on the NFL Network is the "Game of the Week", an edited version of their spotlight game. Despite the fact that the guide actually shows a Bengals/Browns game from October (!!!), the game this week is the Eagles/Vikings game from earlier this year. (I thought it was the playoff game this week, but Terrell Owens is playing.







) It's on in HD now and looks really good. The first-run slot for this game is in the evenings a couple of days a week, I believe, I think Tuesday or Wednesday night at 9 PM, with some afternoon replays the next day.


No other channels were added today...Adelphia has an agreement for ESPN2HD, but that's not in the guide yet.


----------



## hookbill

This is just an fyi, a little something that if you don't know about it, well, it may tick you off but just for general knowledge. On 8300 and 8000 they run SARA software. I've learned from other threads that there are all kinds of different versions of this software out there. Some has a whistle or a bell to it but I think it is based on how it works with your cable system. I've noticed that the version we run is lower then most I see out there, however it seems to be able to do in some cases a thing or two more then higher versions.


What else I've learned is some cable systems are on something called passport software. What's cool abou this stuff is it will allow you to set up your recordings by priority like a season pass in TiVo. That way if you have a conflict somewhere two or three weeks after you set up your recordings it will not just not record, but will go with the order you set up in priority.


We probably will never see that because of the cable system capatability issued, but it is interesting that these machines can even do that.


----------



## Rich Klim

Hi guys,


Anyone know is the adelphia HD locals are encoded. I am thinking about gettng a Fusion card to live with MYHD. The Fusion will record qam.


Thanks in advance,


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Rich Klim_
> *Hi guys,
> 
> 
> Anyone know is the adelphia HD locals are encoded. I am thinking about gettng a Fusion card to live with MYHD. The Fusion will record qam.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,*




My tuner can be configured for cable or broadcast. I tend to leave it on the antenna, because I get more channels, and a slightly better picture.


The last time I checked, ABC, NBC, FOX, and PBS are currently in the clear. CBS and UPN are not available in HD over Adelphia. Everything else is in the Plus package.


----------



## DUTCH1

New to the board.



Does anyone have a realistic time frame in which we recieve DTV HD Locals in the Cleveland market?



REally do not want to have to go through the hassle of the antenna if it will be only a few months?


----------



## CPanther95




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DUTCH1_
> *New to the board.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a realistic time frame in which we recieve DTV HD Locals in the Cleveland market?
> 
> 
> 
> REally do not want to have to go through the hassle of the antenna if it will be only a few months?*



There's been no official announcement from D*, but previous statements would make 12 months a likely guesstimate. However, don't expect PQ to rival what you'd attain with an antenna.


----------



## DUTCH1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by CPanther95_
> 
> PQ to rival what you'd attain with an antenna. [/b]


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DUTCH1_
> *New to the board.
> 
> 
> 
> REally do not want to have to go through the hassle of the antenna if it will be only a few months?*



Welcome.


Instead of installing an antenna, you'll most likely need a new dish and STB to get the locals from D* according to recent reports.


Sounds like an antenna will actually be the easier route.


----------



## Inundated

Cleveland is market #15 size-wise, so we'll likely see the D* HD LILs here before the end of the year. I think they were aiming for the top 30 markets once they get the new satellites up...sometime this summer, I believe.


But ZMan is right. We're talking two new satellites here, and D* is moving to MPEG4 compression.


Re: HD locals on Adelphia - the law requires them to put the locals "in the clear" via QAM, if I understand right.


----------



## hookbill

I noticed my 8300 rebooted last night. Searching around in the diagnostics screen I saw new SARA installed, version 1.85.17.3. I have no idea what changes are involved with this upgrade, if I notice something I'll report it.


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Cleveland is market #15 size-wise, so we'll likely see the D* HD LILs here before the end of the year. I think they were aiming for the top 30 markets once they get the new satellites up...sometime this summer, I believe.
> 
> 
> But ZMan is right. We're talking two new satellites here, and D* is moving to MPEG4 compression.
> 
> 
> Re: HD locals on Adelphia - the law requires them to put the locals "in the clear" via QAM, if I understand right.*



The press release that I saw at CES from D* listed the markets and Cleveland was not included in the initial roll out. My guess is more than a year, but who knows at this point.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *The press release that I saw at CES from D* listed the markets and Cleveland was not included in the initial roll out. My guess is more than a year, but who knows at this point.*



That's the list of the first 12 markets that'll be available by mid-2005. It's my understanding that the top 30 should be up by the end of the year.


----------



## paule123

I got home tonight and found that WOW pushed new software to my SA8000HD, SARA 1.83.16.a10. The good news is the DVI port is now active. The bad news is my NEC 42VP4 plasma is not HDCP compliant so I can't use it. Thank you Hollywood, for making my $3000 investment into a paperweight (well not really, component is "good enough", but it's fun to rant...)


I tried plugging in my new toy the Dell W1700 LCD TV with DVI into the SA8000HD and I only see the left half of the image stretched across the screen. The SA8000HD has some "Please u" purple message on screen with no TV picture displayed (black screen). I can only see half the caption box on screen so I have no idea what it's telling me to do, maybe run setup on the box again or something. "Please update" something, "Please unplug" something maybe.


While experimenting plugging and unplugging the DVI cable I managed to screw the thing up with the DVI handshake to the point I had to unplug the box from the wall and reboot. At one point I had a picture but no digital audio to my HT receiver. Sigh.


UPDATE: (doh!) I unplugged the SA8000HD from the wall and replugged it with the DVI connected to the Dell W1700. Now the on screen display looks correct. I think I confused the box with my earlier experimentation and the DVI handshake got messed up. Unfortunately the Dell W1700 is apparently not HDCP compliant according to the SA8000HD's on screen warning message !! Aaaaargh!! I wonder how many pissed off people are calling their cable companies wanting to know why their DVI inputs won't work thanks to Hollywood's paranoia?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I got home tonight and found that WOW pushed new software to my SA8000HD, SARA 1.83.16.a10. The good news is the DVI port is now active. The bad news is my NEC 42VP4 plasma is not HDCP compliant so I can't use it. Thank you Hollywood, for making my $3000 investment into a paperweight (well not really, component is "good enough", but it's fun to rant...)
> 
> 
> I tried plugging in my new toy the Dell W1700 LCD TV with DVI into the SA8000HD and I only see the left half of the image stretched across the screen. The SA8000HD has some "Please u" purple message on screen with no TV picture displayed (black screen). I can only see half the caption box on screen so I have no idea what it's telling me to do, maybe run setup on the box again or something. "Please update" something, "Please unplug" something maybe.
> 
> 
> While experimenting plugging and unplugging the DVI cable I managed to screw the thing up with the DVI handshake to the point I had to unplug the box from the wall and reboot. At one point I had a picture but no digital audio to my HT receiver. Sigh.
> 
> 
> UPDATE: (doh!) I unplugged the SA8000HD from the wall and replugged it with the DVI connected to the Dell W1700. Now the on screen display looks correct. I think I confused the box with my earlier experimentation and the DVI handshake got messed up. Unfortunately the Dell W1700 is apparently not HDCP compliant according to the SA8000HD's on screen warning message !! Aaaaargh!! I wonder how many pissed off people are calling their cable companies wanting to know why their DVI inputs won't work thanks to Hollywood's paranoia?*



I'm not quite sure I understand the Hollywood paranoia thing, but I think that if you search around on the boards, maybe specifically on the SA8000 thread you can fine a solution to this problem your having. I seem to recall reading messages about what to do when this occures.


Edited to add: the only thing I have noticed so far on the upgrade I received yesterday is that there was a problem with the picture freezing in FF with the 8300. I tested it several times last night and the picture did not freeze up.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> I've thought about upgrading, but I don't do DVI/HDMI and I don't know what advantages it'd provide me otherwise over the 8000HD. Oddly enough, the 8000HD also has a DVI port, though I don't know if it's active in the current software version.
> 
> 
> Either way, starting anew, I'd say definitely get the 8300.*




Double the hard drive space for recording. I'd say that makes it worth it for you even if you don't use DVI/HDMI. Also, to me, the pass-through feature alone is worth it so the box will switch out of 1080i mode for the non-HD channels. That way my TV can do it's formating instead of having to use the box. On the 8000HD, you have to manually switch modes if you want this to work. I'm on the waiting list for the 8300HD but it'll be until mid-Feb they said.


-Todd


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I'm not quite sure I understand the Hollywood paranoia thing*



hookbill, I'm just lashing out as a frustrated user who now has two DVI-capable displays in the house, but neither are HDCP compliant, effectively making DVI useless. Such is the nature of being an "early adopter" I suppose...


It's really the fault of the manufacturers (NEC on the 42VP4 and Dell on the W1700) for not supporting HDCP in the hardware.


We'll see how long HDCP holds up as an effective copy-protection scheme. It's just a matter of time before some teenager in the Netherlands cracks it


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *That's the list of the first 12 markets that'll be available by mid-2005. It's my understanding that the top 30 should be up by the end of the year.*



I stand corrected, and I am glad I'm wrong. I just hope I dont lose my DNS. The only reason is occasionally I forget or dont have time to watch a show, I then catch it on the West coast feed. Not that big of a deal.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ParsonsBri_
> *I stand corrected, and I am glad I'm wrong. I just hope I dont lose my DNS. The only reason is occasionally I forget or dont have time to watch a show, I then catch it on the West coast feed. Not that big of a deal.*



I believe you can keep your DNS, but NOT if you request HD LILs. Someone who knows SHVERA better than I do could probably answer that question better than I can.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Double the hard drive space for recording. I'd say that makes it worth it for you even if you don't use DVI/HDMI. Also, to me, the pass-through feature alone is worth it so the box will switch out of 1080i mode for the non-HD channels. That way my TV can do it's formating instead of having to use the box. On the 8000HD, you have to manually switch modes if you want this to work. I'm on the waiting list for the 8300HD but it'll be until mid-Feb they said..*



Double the HD space? Does the 8300HD have a 320GB drive? I'm pretty sure the 8000HD has a 160 in it. I know some of 'em have 80GB drives, but think the ones Adelphia sends out are the 160's.


Passthrough means nothing to me...believe it or not, I'm not even using an actual HD set. I'm feeding 480i via component video to my Toshiba 32" analog set.


I've decided not to buy an HD tube set in the same range, because I don't believe it could look much better than this picture, which is *very* good. My "actual HD" set will likely be an LCD/DLP/Plasma set at some point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Double the HD space? Does the 8300HD have a 320GB drive? I'm pretty sure the 8000HD has a 160 in it. I know some of 'em have 80GB drives, but think the ones Adelphia sends out are the 160's.
> 
> 
> 
> I've decided not to buy an HD tube set in the same range, because I don't believe it could look much better than this picture, which is *very* good. My "actual HD" set will likely be an LCD/DLP/Plasma set at some point.*



Nope, HD space is the same as 8000HD. Inundated, I respect you as a very knowledgeable fellow, but I would find it real hard to believe that your 480i picture can look real close to my HDMI fed 1080i Sony CRT unit.


It's your money, spend it as you wish. Certainly I wouldn't mind having a LCD/DLP/Plasma, but my wallet couldn't take it.


----------



## TempestII




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by bkuner_
> *I live in the Fairlawn area and am getting decent reception. I have a Channel Master 3018 Near Fringe antenna mounted in the Attic. I get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1, 50.1 & .2 in the 70 to 95% range. They occasionally drop in the 40 - 50% range and lock is intermittent. I to not have to move the antenna to get these. I have it basically pointed in the direction of 3,5,8 antennas about 350 degrees. WKYC-DT 3.1 and 3.2 are consistently at 41% with no lock. I am considering adding a amplifier to see if that helps bring in 3 as well as help with the intermittent issues with the other channels.
> 
> 
> Brian*



I'm in Stow using a Channel Master Stealthtenna currently indoors pointed out the window and get the same results as Brian with one exception, 43.1 hardly ever comes in.


Brian - I would be curious to know your results with the amp.


Chris


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> 
> ...I wouldn't mind having a LCD/DLP/Plasma, but my wallet couldn't take it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/b]



I work a consumer electronics company and I can tell you that Plasma prices will plummet this year, starting soon. We are already seeing sub $2000 pricepoints for 42" HD plasma in the second quarter. That wont be from Sony for instance, but who cares. Most use the Samsung panels anyway. The thinking of the plasma display folks is that they want to head off the proliferation of larger LCD screens as those prices will also dive. You will be able to get a 32" HD ready from my company for $1500 retail in June.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Nope, HD space is the same as 8000HD.*



Hmm..that's pretty strange. I got my 8000HD the 1st day they had them & I was told then by Adelphia that it had 10 hours of HD recording time & about 40-50 hours of SD recording time, which is the same as the non-HD DVR. The Scientific Atlanta website confirmed that as well back then. People were even complaining about only 10 hours of HD recording time & I was pretty irritated as well.


Now, I have not confirmed what mine has in it, but I've maxed it out a few times & I don't believe I had more than 8 hours of HD & a few hours of SD. I'm not positive, but I really don't think I had 20 hours of HD on there. When I look at the SA website now, it says 20 hours of HD recording & 90 hours of SD. Now that is consistant with double the space as I had mentioned. Maybe they upgraded the HDD to a larger size??


My guess is that originally, the 8000SD had 80 gig drives & Adelphia did indeed have those before switching to the 160 gig unit. So, in the end, sorry if I confused the issue, but it looks like some people got the 80 gig units. Either that, or I'm confused as usual! ha! I'll fill mine up with HD to test & see.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> I've decided not to buy an HD tube set in the same range, because I don't believe it could look much better than this picture, which is *very* good. My "actual HD" set will likely be an LCD/DLP/Plasma set at some point.*



Do you mean that HD will not look as good on a direct view 32" HDTV as does 480i SD material on your 32" SDTV?? That doesn't make any sense to me & if that is what you mean, I can without a doubt say that is not the case. I have a 51" CRT based Sony HDTV & I'd challenge any set out there on HD content. It looks killer. More comparable to your situation, are my in-laws who have a 30" Sony direct view HDTV. Not only does the HD look killer, but the SD looks very good as well. No way does any SD look better on ANY SD 'tube' (direct view) TV than it does on this TV, plus the HD will blow away any SD material on any SD TV. Direct View CRT is still the king according to most respected publications (see Sound & Vision Jan. edition)...it's just bigger & heavier than LCD/Plasma. The only thing I can agree with you on is that SD material probably looks better on your 32" TV than it does on my 51" Sony RPTV.


Like hookbill said, it's your money (meaning if you can't afford one that's understandable), but unless I misunderstand, I can't agree with you less about 480i vs. crt based HDTV's.


-Todd


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Nope, HD space is the same as 8000HD. Inundated, I respect you as a very knowledgeable fellow, but I would find it real hard to believe that your 480i picture can look real close to my HDMI fed 1080i Sony CRT unit.*



Well, the better picture source makes ALL pictures look good. It's the same effect you get when you shoot a digital still picture in a high resolution (say 1900x1200 or something) and reduce it with Photoshop or something to 800x600. That picture looks somewhat better than if you shoot originally in 800x600, because there are more underlying pixels.


I've seen tube HD sets (in the $700-1000 range) with HD content feeding them, mostly the usual demo loops. Maybe live programming looks better, but the picture really IS remarkable even on my SD set with true HD content feeding via component video. Not S-video, not composite, but component.


Maybe it's closer to a cheaper CRT unit.










It may or may not be "true HD", but it looks pretty damn good... the ABC coverage of the Inauguration has been breathtaking more than once. Maybe my eyes are just deceiving me, but I can't see it getting SIGNIFICANTLY better. 3D, maybe?











> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> It's your money, spend it as you wish. Certainly I wouldn't mind having a LCD/DLP/Plasma, but my wallet couldn't take it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*
*I'm thinking the "sweet spot" will drop far enough for, say, a 42 inch DLP/LCD/Plasma, that I'll consider it a good buy, in the next year or so.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Like hookbill said, it's your money (meaning if you can't afford one that's understandable), but unless I misunderstand, I can't agree with you less about 480i vs. crt based HDTV's.*



What I'm watching is not "true SD" content. I'm watching HD 720p/1080i stuff downconverted in both the 8000HD and the OTA box to 480i, and feeding the *component* inputs on my Toshiba 32" HD set.


It's probably a misstatement to say it looks as "nearly good as HD would" in a comparable direct view CRT set, so I'll take that back. It's looked, to me, "good enough", with some absolutely beautiful PQ, to hold off on buying a relatively equivalent sized direct view CRT set. I'm watching ABC's HD coverage of the Inauguration even as we speak via WEWS-DT and Adelphia's feed, and it's compelling.


Again, this is full HD content (at the source) downcoverted in the box, and fed out on component video to the SD set.


So I guess what I should have said is that it looks "good enough" to me, and compelling enough, to hold off and get a larger set instead of directly replacing this 32" set with the exact same size HD set. (And I've come close, twice, to "pulling the trigger" on relatively inexpensive 32" sets by Toshiba and Sanyo.) Heck, I might even get a 34" direct view HD set.


I realize I'm pushing about the best possible PQ out of this set now. I don't know what the resolution is (pixels) vs. a 32" direct view HD 4:3 set, say...or a 30" direct view HD 16:9 set, which is basically what the letterbox makes it equivalent to.


----------



## Dweezilz

That makes total sense now, I'm glad you explained. Yeah I'm sure that your current setup looks good enough in that you wouldn't want to just waste $1000 if it ruined the chances of getting a larger set. Some of those cheaper 32" 4:3 HD sets are garbage & probably won't be worth it as they won't look all that much better (those aren't $1000 by the way...much cheaper). I have seen some of the more expensive 4:3 HD sets that looked good, although I'm not one to recommend any 4:3 set for HD or DVD. That said, I'm am sure that your setup isn't close to widescreen HD, even at those sizes (30"- 34"). I saw the $2000 Sony 34" direct view TV in all it's glory at Best Buy while I was in Florida a few weeks ago & it was simply spectacular. I was actually shocked how smooth, detailed & sharp the picture looked. I love my 51" Sony, but man that expensive 34" looked amazing. Ironically, they had their lineup of SD TV's & HDTV's all displaying the PBS demo loop. The SD TV's were obviously downconverted to 480i. I'd agree that the picture actually looked pretty great on some of the SD TV's, but on the widescreen direct view HDTV's which were side by side with some of the SD TV's, it look a million times better. The size factor is definately in the works here (heck my 19" Panasonic makes basic cable look great too!) & while it might make the picture look pretty good, I can promise the detail level is no where near the same. A 32" is comparable to 29" 16:9. Not sure what lines are avaiable on 4:3 HDTV as I pretty much ignore those, but on the 30" 16:9, it's considerably higher than your 32" SDTV.


I understand what you are saying though. When you are ready, go for a Grand Wega 60" LCD! Now that's great looking! ha!


regards.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Either that, or I'm confused as usual! ha! I'll fill mine up with HD to test & see.
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Well, I stand corrected. Seems Adelphia was wrong when I first got my 8000HD as I have about 12 hours of HD on there now & I'm at 50% only. I guess it's not suprising that Adelphia told me something that was wrong! I guess I have filled it up in the past with a mixture of HD & SD and just didn't realize how much I had on there.


I've heard the 8300HD is less buggy though & a better over-all unit. For a free swap, I'll pick mine up (plus the pass-through).


-Todd


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> I've heard the 8300HD is less buggy though & a better over-all unit. For a free swap, I'll pick mine up (plus the pass-through).
> 
> 
> -Todd [/b]



Yes, I agree it is less buggy, and when you get the latest SARA download one of the annoying bugs gets removed. The 8300 has crashed on me one time in the last couple of months I've had it as the 8000 would crash if I pushed buttons too quickly on the remote. And don't forget HDMI is active on the 8300.


FYI....My Sony is a 30" set I got in July. I only paid 899.00 it's a Wega and it has outstanding pq. It is of course 16x9.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree it is less buggy, and when you get the latest SARA download one of the annoying bugs gets removed. The 8300 has crashed on me one time in the last couple of months I've had it as the 8000 would crash if I pushed buttons too quickly on the remote.
> 
> 
> FYI....My Sony is a 30" set I got in July. I only paid 899.00 it's a Wega and it has outstanding pq. It is of course 16x9.*



Yep, that's the TV my in-laws have. It's nice for sure.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I understand what you are saying though. When you are ready, go for a Grand Wega 60" LCD! Now that's great looking! ha!*



Nah, I'm already spending too much business-wise to justify that!










I know the actual HD direct view sets have more lines...I know that. But this still looks "spectactular" enough for me to hang in here for a while while I decide where to land in the HD arena. Heck, if I even get one of those Sony CRT sets you talk about (I think Hookbill has one), I might propose marriage to it.










One problem is that I want to see an HD set with the same sources I have, and see just how dramatic the improvement is. As you correctly note, the demo loops in the stores don't tell me much...I wanna watch what I watch at home.


A local BB, which shall remain nameless location-wise, actually tried to show an NFL playoff game live in HD with an antenna. But...duh...the person who set it up left the projection TV on "zoom", and it was zoomed in the MIDDLE of the 16:9 picture!!! Arrgh!


Re: 8000HD, yes, it's 160 GB out of Adelphia. If the passthrough were important to me, I might get it. PQ may be a little better, too, compared to the 8000HD. I just don't feel like dealing with the Adelphia gauntlet unless I have to!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> 
> One problem is that I want to see an HD set with the same sources I have, and see just how dramatic the improvement is. As you correctly note, the demo loops in the stores don't tell me much...I wanna watch what I watch at home.
> 
> 
> A local BB, which shall remain nameless location-wise, actually tried to show an NFL playoff game live in HD with an antenna. But...duh...the person who set it up left the projection TV on "zoom", and it was zoomed in the MIDDLE of the 16:9 picture!!! Arrgh!
> 
> 
> Re: 8000HD, yes, it's 160 GB out of Adelphia. If the passthrough were important to me, I might get it. PQ may be a little better, too, compared to the 8000HD. I just don't feel like dealing with the Adelphia gauntlet unless I have to!*



Yeah I know what you mean about Adelphia. I am interested to see if the 8300 looks better on my 51" Sony, plus the pass though, so I'll deal with their normal hassle & pick one up.


One thing I can promise is that once you get a good quality 16:9 HDTV, the difference will be huge! Football games alone are spectacular beyond words. You don't even need to demo that to just know it'll be so much better than what you have. Hard to go by what you see at best buy though, plus those guys are usually clueless. Not sure where you live, but I'd recommend going into an AudioCraft or AudioVisions (I think that's their name) to see real HD. I think they might have Adelphia HD there to look at. Also, I've found that Circuit City often has their TV's showing some nice HD believe it or not. At any rate, when you do take the plunge, you'll be loving life!! Good luck!! Let us know when you get one.


-Todd


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Re: 8000HD, yes, it's 160 GB out of Adelphia. If the passthrough were important to me, I might get it. PQ may be a little better, too, compared to the 8000HD. I just don't feel like dealing with the Adelphia gauntlet unless I have to!*



I've had the 8000 since Adelphia first delivered them early last year. I'd really like to upgrade to the 8300, but I can never seem to get my 8000 cleaned up enough that I'd be willing to part with it! There's always something recorded on it that I (or my family) still want to watch.


One of the nice features of the 8300 is the ability to add more hard drive space to it, so I wouldn't have to worry about filling it up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I've had the 8000 since Adelphia first delivered them early last year. I'd really like to upgrade to the 8300, but I can never seem to get my 8000 cleaned up enough that I'd be willing to part with it! There's always something recorded on it that I (or my family) still want to watch.
> *



What I did was watch everything recorded in HD before I turned it in. I put everything else on VCR.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *What I did was watch everything recorded in HD before I turned it in. I put everything else on VCR.*



Yeah I'd like to do that with my other non-hd DVR to get more space, but I have like 8 episodes of west wing & a bunch of law & order too. I don't think I have any blank VCR tapes anymore since I haven't used it in like a year!! although with the crappy fast forward of the 8000, it's not much different than fast forwarding through a tape. ha!


Just got the 8300hd today for downstairs hdtv though.


-Todd


----------



## intermod

WVIZ-DT 26.3 MAKES TITAN TV!


Just noticed it. Also just noticed 26.4 a screen of color bars and the time, pretty handy ehh? 26.9 is often CRRS but it comes and goes.


They are still transmitting from the studio at state rd. and I 480


I don't even want to know whats up with the PSIP.


----------



## hookbill

Ok. I'm glad they are broadcasting in HD. But this has got to be the worst newscast on the air.


I say that because of all the shameless promotion of American Idol. I have never seen anyone promote a show like this. I turn the news on at 5:00 and there is something about AI every 15 minutes.


And really it's not a great newscast anyway. Dick Goddard is so old he frequently doesn't know how to operate a computer. Then they got that one guy who thinks portraying himself like Ted Baxter, the guy from the Mary Tyler Moore show, is cool.


I really like WOIO but I feel guilty watching them since they won't even sign up with Adelphia for HD.


Channel 3 is stretch o vision at it's worst. Channel 5 is better.


Well, gotta gripe somwhere so I came here. I'll try and get over myself.


----------



## takosan

I was happy when I was able to receive WEAO-DT couple weeks ago but now I can't







Is that station still transmitting regularly?


Also from the thread WVIZ-DT has started to transmit too? Just wondering because I can't seem to pick that up either










Robert


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I really like WOIO but I feel guilty watching them since they won't even sign up with Adelphia for HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yipes. I don't know how you can stand to watch "19 Action News" without your head exploding.










FOX 8 isn't what it used to be, years ago, to be sure. The FOX Show Pandering has gone into overdrive, and the newscast has a lot more "lifestyle" stories than it used to (i.e. stories about, for example, losing weight, etc., as opposed to hard news). However, when they actually step away from the American Idol Altar and the "New Diet Pill" Altar, their hard news reporting is still some of the best in the market. It's just very hard to find.










And the addition of Bill and Stacey at 10 can't bode well. (I'm guessing that Bill's the Ted Baxter clone you were talking about.) Bill and Stacey are more "personable" as far as chit-chat, and if you're looking for real news...yipes.


That having been said, I can't deal with 19 at all. They're ALL flash and dash and hype and tabloid. Their weather guy looks like he's coaching a high school basketball team, with that "lean down and fight the weather front!" routine he does. Their new (auditioning) weekend sports guy, Charlie Minn, is an insult to sports anchors across America.


WKYC/3's probably the best "hard news" station out there these days, if you can deal with the stretchovision in digital mode. (On my 480i 4x3 set, it doesn't look too bad if you use the box to squish it back down.) Channel 5 has also gone down the This Newscast Is About Our Hot Show "Desparate Housewives" route, and is nearly as giddy as 8 is these days as far as chit-chat goes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by takosan_
> *I was happy when I was able to receive WEAO-DT couple weeks ago but now I can't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that station still transmitting regularly?
> 
> 
> Also from the thread WVIZ-DT has started to transmit too? Just wondering because I can't seem to pick that up either
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



As far as I know, WEAO-DT is still up, though I can't check right now. How far are you from Akron?


And WVIZ-DT's full power signal won't be up until about the summer. WVIZ had a legal dispute with Infinity Radio, the site's owner, about work Infinity wouldn't allow them to do to get WVIZ-DT up. They put a temporary transmitter up at the studios on Brookpark Road, which you might be able to get if you can see it or live in the Parma area, or have a cable-TV-headend sized antenna










The legal dispute was settled, and WVIZ is now in the process of designing and building its full-power DT operation at the analog site in North Royalton.


----------



## takosan

I'm in western suburbs of Cleveland so pretty far from Akron. Just checked right now again & my SIR-T150 did receive a picture for a second or two but lost it. This morning there were no signals.


I think I started this thread asking for advice back in August of 2003 because I couldn't get any station to go over 50% sensitivity. After getting feedbacks, I tried several times over the past year to find the best direction to point the antenna but it never goes beyond 50%. Still, I get no dropouts so I gave up.


Maybe I was just lucky couple weeks ago because 50.1 & 50.2 were coming in beautifully. I shall see this summer if WVIZ-DT will also start coming in for me










Robert


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by takosan_
> *I think I started this thread asking for advice back in August of 2003 because I couldn't get any station to go over 50% sensitivity. After getting feedbacks, I tried several times over the past year to find the best direction to point the antenna but it never goes beyond 50%. Still, I get no dropouts so I gave up.*



OK, so if you're getting problems getting ANY local stations over 50% signal...getting solid reception out of WEAO-DT may be a stretch for you. I've seen stuff like that happen before...only in my case, the offender is low-VHF-hell-occupant WKYC-DT 2. The digital side of Channel 3 comes in some days like it was going to be near perfect, but most of the time, it's almost impossible to receive clearly for me. I'd suspect that if I COULD put up a big, rooftop antenna, I might have a shot at it, but maybe not...multipath may be a larger issue for me on WKYC-DT.


You should have a much better shot at WVIZ-DT when it goes full power, at least as good as you can get the other stations in that general area.


----------



## Dweezilz

Well, everything is great with my new 8300HD except for one thing. Seems the box has a very limited range for remote reception. I tested with the old remote from my other box & it's exactly the same on this 8300hd. They work for the length of the family room, but the box stops responding at the front of the kitchen. The box also seems to not respond at time even at close range unless I'm pointing directly at it. Both remotes control my Sony TV perfectly from my kitchen but neither will control the box from there. The old 8000HD worked perfectly from across the entire kitchen. Because we watch the TV from the kitchen when we are eating (sometimes), this is a major problem.


Does anyone else have this issue or do you think it's a defective box?


-Todd


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by takosan_
> *I was happy when I was able to receive WEAO-DT couple weeks ago but now I can't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that station still transmitting regularly?
> 
> 
> Robert*



I had the same problem. I had WEAO coming in strong for a day or so the week after Christmas - then nothing, no matter where I placed the antenna. Couldn't get the analog station either.


Last Saturday, I tried again, and got a lock with the antenna in a totally different position than before. It's been solid ever since - hopefully it will stay that way.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Ok. I'm glad they are broadcasting in HD. But this has got to be the worst newscast on the air.*



All of the local newscasts are pretty bad. The CBS affiliate will do the same pandering when the new "Survivor" comes out, for instance. I tend to lean towards WEWS 11 o'clock news, but the weatherman there is an annoying idiot. When he was new, he had a knack for screwing up the five day forecast pretty consistently and forced me over to WKYC to get the weather (the weather is really the only reason to watch these local newscasts anyway)


I regularly watch WGN News at Nine (9CT, 10ET) out of Chicago. For one thing, I'm a former Chicagoan, for another thing it's simply the best "local" newscast in the country. Period. If you're a weather geek, Tom Skilling's forecasts are unsurpassed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Well, everything is great with my new 8300HD except for one thing. Seems the box has a very limited range for remote reception. I tested with the old remote from my other box & it's exactly the same on this 8300hd. They work for the length of the family room, but the box stops responding at the front of the kitchen. The box also seems to not respond at time even at close range unless I'm pointing directly at it. Both remotes control my Sony TV perfectly from my kitchen but neither will control the box from there. The old 8000HD worked perfectly from across the entire kitchen. Because we watch the TV from the kitchen when we are eating (sometimes), this is a major problem.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue or do you think it's a defective box?
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Well, first since I really have no idea how long your family room is, or any of the others it's kind of hard for me to give a difinitive answer in comparison to mine. I have measured from the kitchen to the box and that's about 25 ft. I've noticed usually if I'm in the kitchen I have to step into the living room to do anything.


Of course there could be several other factors. I'm sure you've cleaned off the front panel. The batteries that come with the remote are usually pretty good so probably not that. Other things that may be in line of site with the remote could be a problem too.


For my thinking, 25 ft is about right for a remote.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *All of the local newscasts are pretty bad. The CBS affiliate will do the same pandering when the new "Survivor" comes out, for instance. I tend to lean towards WEWS 11 o'clock news, but the weatherman there is an annoying idiot. When he was new, he had a knack for screwing up the five day forecast pretty consistently and forced me over to WKYC to get the weather (the weather is really the only reason to watch these local newscasts anyway)*



3's the most low-key, least-hyped newscast in the market. I have my problems with even them, but they're pretty solid...and they do have the Akron operation which runs on 23 (unfortunately, not even available in SD digital right now).


WJW FOX 8 can't be the worst newscast in the market as long as the folks at Reserve Square still put out newscasts for 19 and 43. Any news operation which hypes one of its anchors going naked, and shows it, has a long way to go to regain my viewership.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, first since I really have no idea how long your family room is, or any of the others it's kind of hard for me to give a difinitive answer in comparison to mine. I have measured from the kitchen to the box and that's about 25 ft. I've noticed usually if I'm in the kitchen I have to step into the living room to do anything.
> 
> 
> Of course there could be several other factors. I'm sure you've cleaned off the front panel. The batteries that come with the remote are usually pretty good so probably not that. Other things that may be in line of site with the remote could be a problem too.
> 
> 
> For my thinking, 25 ft is about right for a remote.*



My kitchen table is about 25-26 feet from the box. Front panel sticker was taken off & it's clean. Batteries replace with good ones. Everything has worked from the kitchen except this box. The explorer 3100 worked fine from the kitchen, the HD box worked fine (3200HD?), the 8000HD worked fine, my dish network HD receiver works fine, yamaha reciever works fine, cd player works fine, & TV all work fine. I programmed this remote to control my DVD player & TV. Both work fine from the kitchen. The 8300HD is the 1st box in 5 years in this setup that won't work from the kitchen. Seems the range tapers out at about 20-23 feet. Keep in mind, this range is NOT the range of the remote, as it controls my other componants from well over 30 feet! It just won't control the 8300HD from past about 23 feet. My pronto can go up to 33 feet and then some & it won't control the box either from there. If someone else could test their's for me I'd really appreciate it. I'm guessing I have a defective box or for some reason, the 8300's receiving eye is much weaker than all their other boxes. If hookbill's box is only good from 20 feet as well, then it may be a flaw in the software (I'd think the hardware is the same as their other boxes)


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *....the weather is really the only reason to watch these local newscasts anyway....*



The weather forecast, as presented by local TV news, is largely a work of fiction. They do everything they can to dramatize it, with the result that you really can't put any trust in in at all. If it's snow, they call for a blizzard. If it's cold, they tell you about "wind chill", if it's hot, they forecast even hotter. If there's a line of thunderstorms, they'll preempt programming to show off their Dopler radar (got to show a return on that investment!). Anything to draw in a few more viewers.


If you want an accurate forecast, point your browser to a National Weather Service feed. You'll be amazed at how often it differs from what the TV guys are reporting, and how often it turns out more accurate.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *My kitchen table is about 25-26 feet from the box. Front panel sticker was taken off & it's clean*



Well, bad news. I called Scientific Atlanta & sure enough, they went with new hardware for the sensor on the 8300HD & they are aware that it is a problem. Unfortunately, no software can fix it as it's a hardware only issue he said. It's range will be significanlty less than the 8000HD or any other SA box for that matter. It's range is about 20-22 feet which he confirmed as accurate. It will be necessary to have a good direct angle to the box or it will also have issues picking up the signal. It also doesn't work with any extenders that Remote Central has tested with. I was suprised that their support actually refrenced Remote Central! He even told me it was a t.o.a.d. etc...! No clue why they would have gone with different & MUCH worse hardware but maybe it was a money saving issue. Bad choice.


So, I guess I just can't use it from my kitchen. He did say a pronto MIGHT be better if it send a stronger signal so I'm going to try it. I haven't programmed it yet into my Pronto but I'll report back soon.


On the bright side, I do notice an improvement in PQ on the HD channels with this box so that's a plus!


-Todd


----------



## paule123

Dweezilz, just curious how big is your display? I was thinking of switching from the SA8000HD to the SA8300HD but have a hard time thinking the PQ would get significantly better on my 42" plasma. This weekend I was playing with component vs. DVI from my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA box and could not see a difference. The Sammy DVI output looked identical to the SA8000HD component out.


Do you think SD material looks better on the SA8300HD?


----------



## Dweezilz

So far I really haven't paid much attention to SD material, but my HD definately looks better to me. Even the wife thought so. SD probably won't look that much better I would guess. I have a 51" Sony rear projection HDTV. I'd say it's worth the shot to upgrade. The downfall is the remote sensor, but on the positive side is the pass-through so it'll auto-switch from SD to HD mode when you change channels.


----------



## hookbill

Dweezliz, are you running your 8300 through HDMI to your projection set?


Just curious.


----------



## Dweezilz

No, my TV doesn't have an HDMI input. I have DVI, but going through componant.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *No, my TV doesn't have an HDMI input. I have DVI, but going through componant.*



If you wanted to use the DVI on your tv, you could try a cable with HDMI on one end and DVI on the other. These cables came included with the HDTivo for this purpose.


----------



## Dweezilz

I already have my Dish Reciever going into DVI but I'm probably getting rid of it soon anyway. In comparing like channels via DVI Dish box & Adelphia's HD box, the Adelphia's picture seem to have way more color but maybe not quite as sharp a picture. Not sure if this is a lacking in my DVI port on the TV or in the Dish box. At any rate, I've heard that on an RPTV, the benefit in PQ using DVI is minimal anyway. Hard for me to judge since the two inputs looks SO very different on the same channels.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Wow, I've never seen it so quiet around here.


On a related note, I noticed that my picture was incredibly washed out and hard to see this morning. Then I realized that it was just sun glare coming through the window. It's been so long since it's happened, I forgot the symptoms.










Ok, ok. So the real reason for the post was just a bump so we don't miss any new members that might wander in after their recent purchase of a Super Bowl-set.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Anyone know if the cav's game tonight will be blacked out on ESPN? I was wondering if the would black out the game if it is on FSN or WUAB. I hope not. Looking forward to seeing thre cavs in HD.


----------



## DCSholtis

I think since its a National game it would be in the clear to us.


----------



## Braccio

I have recently upgraded to Cox HD and have noticed something disturbing.I was wondering if anyone here that has Cox HD service in or around the outlying area of Cleveland has noticed this.

While viewing a HD broadcast I notice a cracking or popping through me reciever and speakers.Of course i went ahead and rechecked my connections throughout my whole HT set up,everything is in order and correct.

While viewing a SD channel,or playing a dvd,cd,or listening to music via the tuner

I never hear this cracking /popping.It's only on the HD feed.

Has anyone in this area experienced this ??


----------



## paule123

Braccio, you may want to search AVSForum for the make/model of your HD set top box and see if it's a known issue with audio breakups.


I know my SA8000HD used to have audio breakups specifically with Fox live sporting events in DD5.1 audio via the optical audio out. The problem has largely disappeared, either because Fox fixed something and/or Wide Open West cable upgraded the software in the STB.


As a workaround for my audio glitches, I was able to change the SA8000HD audio output settings via the remote from "dolby digital" to "stereo" and that fixed it -- but I lost surround effects of course.


-- Paul


----------



## gass

I get it also but I'm using the D*. Its the networks OR the locals switching from a comercial break back to the HD program. WEWS is really bad.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by gass_
> *I get it also but I'm using the D*. Its the networks OR the locals switching from a comercial break back to the HD program. WEWS is really bad.*



And FOX is probably the best because they don't toggle betwwen dolby 5.1 and normal broadcasting.


----------



## Braccio

A friend of mine just got Cox cable with HD.I asked her if she has experienced the audio anomoly and sure enough she said she did.

I then called tech support at Cox and made a tech aware of this.He said he would have a senior tech call me on Mon.Till then I'm waiting.When or if I get an answer,I'll let you all know the outcome.

Those that replied,thank you for your input!

P.S. The STB I'm using is the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 3250HD.


----------



## handsworth

Finally, Finally, Finally at last. I found out that Adelphia (Cleveland) has signed with Raycom. WOIO will be on sometime this week or as far out as 30/40 days. I heard they already have the signal, they just need permission. Look for it on 704 or 719.


----------



## jtscherne

Yes!!!!!!!! In time for March Madness!


Now, about ESPN2HD? Baseball season opener maybe?

(Greed continues to appear)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Finally, Finally, Finally at last. I found out that Adelphia (Cleveland) has signed with Raycom. WOIO will be on sometime this week or as far out as 30/40 days. I heard they already have the signal, they just need permission. Look for it on 704 or 719.*



Hallelujah!











I hate to be a sore winner here, but any idea if WUAB/43 will be in there, too?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Yes!!!!!!!! In time for March Madness!
> 
> 
> Now, about ESPN2HD? Baseball season opener maybe?
> 
> (Greed continues to appear) *



Adelphia (nationwide) has already signed a deal to carry ESPN2HD...and in fact, some lucky folks in Connecticut (!) already have it on Adelphia systems there.


Shouldn't be that much longer...


----------



## jtscherne

I know about the national deal; I'm just being a PITA....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *Finally, Finally, Finally at last. I found out that Adelphia (Cleveland) has signed with Raycom. WOIO will be on sometime this week or as far out as 30/40 days. I heard they already have the signal, they just need permission. Look for it on 704 or 719.*



Now this is really big news! I'll be checking every morning as soon as I get up.


Hopefully they have it up maybe by tomorrow, February sweeps is starting. All the CSI's in HD. Numb3rs, Cold Case. Too Cool.


Oh yeah that basketball thing too!!!!!


----------



## fpo701

I hope that the Adelphia announcement means that us Time Warner folks aren't far behind.


Can't wait to see JAG and NCIS in HD.


----------



## hookbill

Let me start by making it clear that this is not a statement in denial of what Handsworth said. He has shown to be very reliable when it comes to letting us know when something new is coming up.


The WOIO hd thing is a major score for those of us who have been waiting so long. I too have a pretty reliable connection at Adelphia. Because Handsworth left a lot of leadway as to when this would become available and also because I had some trouble understanding what he meant by "needs permission" I contacted my person at Adelphia.


She told me that she doesn't know anything about it at this time. Now I would say that since Handsworth said it, you can believe it. But I really don't understand is what they would need "permission" for if they have reached agreement.


So Handsworth, if your out there....please comment.


----------



## handsworth

Sorry for the ambiguity, but I am extremely close to the source and I don't want to blow it I purposely said "needs permission" because I can't get into the details. They don't need permission from Raycom as as of now, but there are other things (things I can't mention) that Adelphia needs to do to go forward such as selecting the channel. (bandwidth considerations).


Another reason may be that there are certain cities in our system that may require 30 days notice. I won't name them, but in their franchise agreements, we must notify their subs 30 days in advance before we change anything. That was the case with the NFL Network. You saw a "free preview" for 30 days before we went live HD. A local channel might be waived because we already carry the analog and the digital. ESPN2HD is on the horizon, but it definitely is under that 30 day rule. (so are the others).


Not to say your source is wrong, but this just came down yesterday afternoon and I am that close. Sorry I can't be more specific. I hope they put a channel 1 message on with an exact date. You know if I find out, I will tell.


----------



## rljjr

Hi All, I am a long time lurker, but first time poster. I have Adelphia basic hooked straight into my Mitsubishi 65815. At least in Chardon, it looks like WOIO-DT is on the air! It shows as channel 113-2, right above WVIZ-DT at 113-1. The TV says it is 16/9 hd. This afternoon, the Young and the Restless certainly looked hi-def... for the five minutes I could stand it.

By the way, great thread. I've learned a lot!


----------



## Inundated

Good news, rljjr. I'm anxiously awaiting the presence of WOIO-DT for those of us who don't have QAM tuners.


While I'm waiting - a non-Adelphia issue:


Is anyone else having odd scanned channel issues with some of the OTA locals? I did a full rescan last night, and WJW ended up mapping to 31-2 (!), where it always used to map to 8-1 before. WUAB maps now to 28-1, where it used to map to 43-1. Both stations are running their correct HD feed in prime time on those newly mapped channels.


I have one of the USDigital STBs, and I know the local stations are going through PSIP changes. The only fully compliant station with PSIP right now appears to be WKYC-DT (back on my antenna in a rare quiet period for noise!), which maps properly to 3-1/2/3 and has program data now.


I figure that since WKYC is doing it right, and I'm getting them in the right places, the STB may not be the issue here...just configuration of the new settings.


----------



## Inundated

WJW-DT is now back at 8-1.


WUAB-DT is still at 28-1, but now has program info!


----------



## intermod

PSIP = PITA ?


Do any of the newer HDTV tuners allow for more than

one station per channel?


Example: At 300 degrees I get 50-1 WKBD-DT from Detroit

but can no longer get 50-1 WEAO-D1 untill I rescan.


Both stations come in at about 50 on the F38310.


Thanks


----------



## padstack

Argh!! I tried the dipole. Made it just like a couple of sites said, and now I get EVERY digital station BUT that one! LOL! Oh well. At least it's better than the antenna I was using...


Still trying...


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *I hope that the Adelphia announcement means that us Time Warner folks aren't far behind.
> 
> 
> Can't wait to see JAG and NCIS in HD.*



Amen. Then I can put away my Silver Sensor, or at least just leave it pointed in one direction to pick up WUAB (unless they get that also... I can dream, right?).


----------



## padstack

anyone know wht station 31.2 is? I got it to lock at 80% strength tonight, but there was no picture??? Weird. Just curious if I'm getting closer to WKYC-DT...


----------



## Daniel Eddy

Is anyone with Comcast getting Fox HD audio in 5.1 or just DD? I am prepping for the Super Bowl, so I checked American Idol on Tuesday Night. I got DD, but not 5.1. I am trying figure out whether it is my setup or the broadcast.


----------



## AfricanGrey




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Daniel Eddy_
> *Is anyone with Comcast getting Fox HD audio in 5.1 or just DD? I am prepping for the Super Bowl, so I checked American Idol on Tuesday Night. I got DD, but not 5.1. I am trying figure out whether it is my setup or the broadcast.*



I did not check my receiver last night to see if American Idol was broadcasting in audio 5.1, but it did sound like it was. I was using an OTA signal and there seemed to be some slight ambient sounds on the rear channels.


However, the football games on FOX have had pretty good use of audio 5.1 in the past, so I expect it would be good for the Super Bowl.


I know you have Comcast, but as a general rule, the OTA HD 5.1 has been good on FOX.


----------



## hookbill

I have Adelphia, and when I watch FOX it always reads Dolby Digital. It's clearly 5.1 because different sounds come from all speakers. Now my receiver also has a Dolby 5.1 analog setting which I don't use because my rear speakers are wireless.


Do you see other shows coming in as Dolby 5.1?


----------



## Daniel Eddy




> Quote:
> Do you see other shows coming in as Dolby 5.1?



I really haven't seen any Comcast Local HD broadcast in 5.1. My A/V receiver and the cable info displays the locals as Dolby Digital which my receiver converts to Dolby Prologic II. This happens with some of the other HD channels. From my understanding the Dolby Digital that I am getting is 2 channel sound unless it shows the 5.1. Every so often one of the premium channels broadcasts in 5.1, which my receiver and the cable info states.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Daniel Eddy_
> *I really haven't seen any Comcast Local HD broadcast in 5.1. My A/V receiver and the cable info displays the locals as Dolby Digital which my receiver converts to Dolby Prologic II. This happens with some of the other HD channels. From my understanding the Dolby Digital that I am getting is 2 channel sound unless it shows the 5.1. Every so often one of the premium channels broadcasts in 5.1, which my receiver and the cable info states.*



I understand. Well, when I get a 5.1 broadcast that's when my receiver shows Dolby Digital.....kind of a scrolling Dolby Digital. It also shows Dolby Digital(but not the scrolling one) on non 5.1 shows and Pro Logic II takes over. I can also use Pro Logic II on converted analog to digital shows and it works pretty good too.


----------



## paule123

I picked up a Samsung SIR-T451 receiver last night in the hopes of experimenting with QAM reception. Boy, what a disappointment.


I have a left-over Adelphia feed from the previous owner and also my regular Wide Open West feed.


The long and short of it is on Wide Open West all I can get is the InDemand barker channel. I have not gone through all the Adelphia channels yet because the Samsung box has an awful design that forces you to go through every QAM channel, mostly encrypted, and wait 20 or 30 seconds for it to figure this out, and change to the next channel. Not wanting to waste another hour on that effort, it was time to go to bed...


You can read my experience here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=504835


----------



## gujuman

Hey Everyone, I have a quick question.


I live in downtown Cleveland and am considering a 37" LCD with built in tuner/Cable card slot by Sharp. Does anyone own one of these?


If so, how does the SD image look? Our building was recently re-wired so I expect that it will look decent, but wanted to be sure because I have heard that the image quality on LCD TV's is mainly due to cable company.


Would it be easy to get OTA HD in downtown? i looked on antennaweb and the stations are ~7 miles from my place. BTW i'm on the 4th floor with a balcony facing south.


Thanks in advance


----------



## Daniel Eddy




> Quote:
> _Originally Posted by hookbill_
> 
> Well, when I get a 5.1 broadcast that's when my receiver shows Dolby Digital.....kind of a scrolling Dolby Digital.



Do you get the scrolling Dolby Digital for 5.1 on FoxHD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Daniel Eddy_
> *Do you get the scrolling Dolby Digital for 5.1 on FoxHD?*



Yes. Whenever 5.1 comes in that's when I get the scrolling message. Other then that it's Dolby Pro Logic and I can select Pro Logic, Movies, or Music. Of course if it's something in hd but not 5.1, like local news then I just get Dolby Digital Pro Logic.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by padstack_
> *anyone know wht station 31.2 is? I got it to lock at 80% strength tonight, but there was no picture??? Weird. Just curious if I'm getting closer to WKYC-DT...*



See my message above - 31-2 is WJW-DT, as they're apparently playing with their PSIP stuff to get it ready.


After a while, I rescanned and it showed up at 8-1, as it should.


WKYC-DT is a tough catch if you're not using the proper antenna. As a "low-VHF" station (DT 2), it is subject to all sorts of electrical noise and other crap. The only way you're gonna solve this is A) get a properly tuned outdoor antenna (more than likely) that is designed to pick up channel 2 or B) wait until WKYC-DT decides to move off DT 2, which may or may not ever happen










For more help with the antenna stuff, post in the Official Antenna Thread in this section of AVS Forum (HDTV -> Local HDTV Info -> Official Antenna Thread).


----------



## Daniel Eddy




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Yes. Whenever 5.1 comes in that's when I get the scrolling message. Other then that it's Dolby Pro Logic and I can select Pro Logic, Movies, or Music. Of course if it's something in hd but not 5.1, like local news then I just get Dolby Digital Pro Logic.*



Thanks for all of your help. It seems the shows that are on tonight are in 5.1. It must have been a fluke thing.


----------



## grayta

TWC NEO (N. Canton) has no WKYC and PBS feeds (80.1/2/3/4/5) tonight-and last night they were pixelating badly. It's not my STB, as they are gone from one my neigbor's set a couple of doors down, too. Remapped and they don't seem to have migrated anywhere. Anyone know what's up?


----------



## Inundated

Sounds like some of their equipment took a dive.


We saw the same problem with Adelphia and some of their HD channels a while back.


Since you listed the QAM channels and they all appear to be in the same block (80), I'd guess that is what is going on...


----------



## fpo701

grayta,


I'm trying to understand what you are talking about. Time Warner NEO has only two PBS channels. They are WNEO-HD (46-1) on 549 and WNEO-DT (46-2) on 550. I'm not sure what the 80.* you are refering to are.


As for WKYC, looked sort of fine to me. I was away, but did record Joey to my DVR. The first 1/2 had quiet audio out of the center channel, but they fixed it after the 1/2-point commercial. ER was perfect.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *I'm trying to understand what you are talking about. Time Warner NEO has only two PBS channels. They are WNEO-HD (46-1) on 549 and WNEO-DT (46-2) on 550. I'm not sure what the 80.* you are refering to are.*



Those are the underlying "QAM" channels, which is the standard they use to put the digital cable channels on the system...before the box takes over. If you have a tuner box that picks these unscrambled channels up without the cable box, that's where they show up. The box remaps them to whatever channel TWC wants to put them on.


I don't think he was talking about more "PBS channels" than TWC NEO carries, unless they've got WVIZ-DT in there somewhere.


Re: NBC last night...it apparently was a nationwide problem.


Other topics:


* For some reason, I'm still getting WKYC-DT with a decent signal and my indoor antenna. I'm not sure why. It comes in for a few days and then goes away, almost all the time.


* I rescanned DT 28, and WUAB is back in place on remapped 43-1. WUAB is passing program info on the PSIP now, and sister WOIO-DT is not, yet. Others passing program info now include WKYC (on all three subchannels) and WDLI (on two of four subchannels). No one else in the market is passing programming info, yet.


* No sign yet of WOIO-HD on Adelphia, though as an earlier post indicated, we know it's at least "in the system", if only for folks with QAM tuners. Hoping for it soon!


----------



## rkundla

Does anyone have a list of the visible QAM channels on Time Warner Cable?


I did know that some locals were on the 80-x block and some were on 104-x, but was curious to see what everyone elses receiver found.


I bought the LG 3200A combo unit and saw more channels than I did with the 4100 I replaced it with. I saw some channels like ESPN HD that I don't see anymore.










Ron


----------



## fpo701

Everyone,


Check it out. Time Warner has added WOIO HD to its local HD lineup. It is on 541. See. I told you we TW guys weren't far behind if that other cable market added them.


Looks like it is time to update the DVR schedule to record HD JAG and NCIS!!!


Frank


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *Everyone,
> 
> 
> Check it out. Time Warner has added WOIO HD to its local HD lineup. It is on 541. See. I told you we TW guys weren't far behind if that other cable market added them.
> 
> 
> Looks like it is time to update the DVR schedule to record HD JAG and NCIS!!!
> 
> 
> Frank*



Not far behind? You got it before Adelphia did (at least delivered to the custormer). I'm jealous!!!!!!


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Not far behind? You got it before Adelphia did (at least delivered to the custormer). I'm jealous!!!!!!*



Ah. That's right. I knew I read something about that here. Its back one page. You mentioned it was coming.


I'll let you know it looks tonight.


----------



## Inundated

Someone earlier in the thread said they were getting WOIO-HD on Adelphia, using a QAM tuner. It can't be THAT far away.


----------



## hookbill

Ok, something is wrong. The other day I got House recorded in segments. 4 different showings starting and beginning at various times. Same thing happend last night with Point Pleasant.


Now today I see that I only got 25 minutes of the Apprentice, 4 minutes of the First 48 (A&E) and 55 minutes of Without a Trace.



Anybody else have similar problems last night?


----------



## Tom in OH

ewww, that doesn't sound good. "Point Pleasant" recorded ok on the HDTivo(my new favorite show, except for "Alias" of course...). If your cable box continues this, maybe a reboot by unplugging will do the trick.


----------



## grayta

Just checked my TWC NEO (Canton), WOIO is indeed up and looking sharp (on QAM Channel 100.1). However, WKYC (80.1, 80.2 and 80.3) and PBS (80.4 and 80.5) are a no go-they will barely lock and pixelate badly. I've got to assume the two events may be related somehow, so, if they are, I hope the TWC guys get it straightened out... and soon!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Anybody else have similar problems last night?*



No, I'm fine!











(I just had to say that to drive you nuts. I didn't record any of these shows, and I have an 8000HD.







)


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Ok, something is wrong. The other day I got House recorded in segments. 4 different showings starting and beginning at various times. Same thing happend last night with Point Pleasant.
> 
> 
> Now today I see that I only got 25 minutes of the Apprentice, 4 minutes of the First 48 (A&E) and 55 minutes of Without a Trace.
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else have similar problems last night?*



My wife recorded American Idol on Weds. on our 8300HD & it recorded in 3 segments. Two 2 minute recordings & one 23 minute recording. The rest didn't record.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *My wife recorded American Idol on Weds. on our 8300HD & it recorded in 3 segments. Two 2 minute recordings & one 23 minute recording. The rest didn't record.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I've seen that happen here occasionally. I assume that it is because of dropouts in the source signal. They're relatively rare, but they still happen sometimes.


----------



## intermod

Enhanced Propagation today!!


Do a Channel Scan


Getting Toledo, Detroit, Mt. Clemons, Erie, Y-town.


/Dan


----------



## PhilO

Is anyone in the Adelphia-South Suburbs area receiving in-the-clear HD locals with a QAM tuner? I was getting these channels on 105-nn for a while, but they suddenly cut out. Re-scanning didn't find them. I'm trying to figure out if this is a problem with my set (Mits WD-52525) or if Adelphia turned these channels off.


Thanks for any help.

...Phil


----------



## kpollari




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vthakkar_
> *Hey Everyone, I have a quick question.
> 
> 
> I live in downtown Cleveland and am considering a 37" LCD with built in tuner/Cable card slot by Sharp. Does anyone own one of these?
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Would it be easy to get OTA HD in downtown? i looked on antennaweb and the stations are ~7 miles from my place. BTW i'm on the 4th floor with a balcony facing south.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance*



Personally, I wouldn't get a TV with a built in tuner. They're more expensive and may not work well for your needs. I bought a Samsung 43" DLP without built in tuner. I guess you could try the Sharp and return it if you couldn't pick up the OTA stations.


I live in Ohio City and can get 5 of the 7 digital locals. I can't get CBS at all. And PBS, only if I mount my antenna outside. I have a SquareShooter mounted in my attic. This weekend I tried to mount it outside and my reception got worse. I have problems with multipath.


I would suggest getting a receiver that handles multipath pretty well. I've heard that the LG OTA receivers are good. I haven't tried them yet. I have DirecTV and needed a receiver that handles both it and OTA. So, I have a Samsung 360.


Good luck.


----------



## fpo701

That's right, kids. We all knew it should be coming. Since the same company owns both WOIO and WUAB, it was bound to happen soon.


This evening WUAB HD is sitting at position 544 on Time Warner NE Ohio!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *That's right, kids. We all knew it should be coming. Since the same company owns both WOIO and WUAB, it was bound to happen soon.
> 
> 
> This evening WUAB HD is sitting at position 544 on Time Warner NE Ohio!!!*



Grumble Grumble.....Come on Adelphia!!!!! Quit pulling on your....... and let's at least get WOIO going!!!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Grumble Grumble.....Come on Adelphia!!!!! Quit pulling on your....... and let's at least get WOIO going!!!!*



At least we know Adelphia has WOIO "lurking under the surface" (re: the QAM tuner report from someone earlier in this thread). I just can't wait till they bring it into the box!


----------



## rljjr

I am surprised that I am the only one to have reported on WOIO-DT. Does no one else have Adelphia and a QAM tuner? My wife is a huge fan of Everybody loves Raymond. After seeing it tonight in HD, she noticed details in the Barone household that she had not seen in all her years of watching the show! She almost agreed to an antenna on the roof so we can record it on our HDTivo.


Bob


----------



## hookbill

Are you pulling in WUAB with theQAM tuner?


----------



## hookbill

Are you pulling in WUAB with theQAM tuner?


----------



## rljjr

I did another channel scan this morning, and did not see WUAB-DT on Adelphia. It either isn't in there or isn't in the clear.


Bob


----------



## DCSholtis

Is 5-1 and 8-1 down for anybody else now??


----------



## Inundated

No problems with either WEWS-DT or WJW-DT here, both OTA and Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated

Look for that radar to go away on WKYC-DT in the next few months, replaced by a full-fledged weather channel:

http://www.brandweek.com/brandweek/f..._id=1000789766 


"NBC Weather Plus, NBC Universal's digital 24-hour national and local weather network, announced distribution agreements with Gannett Television Group, Raycom Media and Clear Channel, increasing the network's reach to 60 percent of U.S. households, from 30 percent. Through the deals, 22 TV stations over the next several months will begin broadcasting NBC Weather Plus, including Gannett's KUSA in Denver and WKYC in Cleveland;"


----------



## Dweezilz

I hope it's not even more bandwidth stealing than the radar already is.


----------



## Inundated

I've seen this channel in a video demo. It might require a LITTLE more bandwidth, as it has some moving graphics and such, but not much more. I don't believe there is any live video on the channel.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I don't believe there is any live video on the channel.*



Any live audio? Wouldn't that take a little more bandwidth by itself?


And like I've said all along; 3-3 is a drop in the bucket toward the degradation of the picture quality of 3-1. It's 3-2 that needs to be eliminated.


Still waiting for the "good business reasons" that 3-2 is still around.


----------



## hookbill

I thought I would just pass on that my contact at Adelphia has now also confirmed to me that WOIO should be available "within the next month."


No firm start date again, but this is just more confirmation that it is coming.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Any live audio? Wouldn't that take a little more bandwidth by itself?*



Audio takes significantly less bandwidth than video. I'm guessing the changeover on 3-3 will take about a meg or two extra.


And you're right...3-3 isn't the problem child, the SD simulcast is. Did they say they use it to feed cable systems? I thought they had mostly fiber feeds to the big systems locally (Cox, Comcast, Adelphia, TWC).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I thought I would just pass on that my contact at Adelphia has now also confirmed to me that WOIO should be available "within the next month."
> 
> 
> No firm start date again, but this is just more confirmation that it is coming.*



Say, tomorrow is "within the next month", right? Right?










Signed,

Mr. Impatient


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Say, tomorrow is "within the next month", right? Right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Mr. Impatient*



I'm right there with you! I've been checking every morning since handsworth first told us!


I also mentioned WUAB to her but she didn't comment on that one.


----------



## PhilO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PhilO_
> *Is anyone in the Adelphia-South Suburbs area receiving in-the-clear HD locals with a QAM tuner? I was getting these channels on 105-nn for a while, but they suddenly cut out. Re-scanning didn't find them. I'm trying to figure out if this is a problem with my set (Mits WD-52525) or if Adelphia turned these channels off.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> ...Phil*



After hitting "reset" on the TV, I can answer my own question - the set was the problem, and I'm now seeing the digital channels via the QAM tuner. I can't wait for the channel scan to finish to see if I can pull in WOIO in high-def!


Updated: There it is - NCIS in high def on 113-2 !!


----------



## rljjr

PhilO- I am glad you are able to get WOIO-DT. I was beginning to question if I was the only one seeing this channel!

Bob


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I thought I would just pass on that my contact at Adelphia has now also confirmed to me that WOIO should be available "within the next month."*



Still no news on WUAB? And while they're at it, they really should be negotiating with the WB folks - they're going to get HD on the air eventually. Wouldn't it be nice if cable could be right there with them?


----------



## Inundated

Several stations across the country provide cable only HD feeds.


The most prominent is the FOX affiliate in Albany, which is having channel allocations problems with its OTA DT signal, much like WBNX. (The biggest problem...their channel assignment, 7, is shared with among others WABC/New York's analog channel.) They've been feeding an HD feed to Time Warner Cable there for a year or more.


The FOX affiliate in the Santa Barbara/Santa Maria/San Luis Obispo, CA market just lit up an HD cable feed on one of the MSOs there. The "station" is actually a combo of three LPTVers in each major city of the market, and digital LPTV is only now becoming a reality.


So yes, it'd be possible for WBNX to feed a "cable only HD feed" to TWC/Adelphia/Cox/Comcast or one of them. Whether they have the HD equipment in place aside from the DT transmitter, I don't know.


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Say, tomorrow is "within the next month", right? Right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Mr. Impatient*



Umm. It's "tomorrow". Any luck?


If it makes you feel any better, my WUAB HD feed was down this morning. Not sure if it was a problem at Time Warner or if it was down for everyone.


Hey OTA guys, anyone have problems with WUAB?


----------



## hookbill

That's right fpo701....Open the wound and throw salt in it







.


No we didn't get it today. But it will happen sometime within the next 30 days. Hopefully.


May a giant wave of pixelation infect your hd set tonight!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *If it makes you feel any better, my WUAB HD feed was down this morning. Not sure if it was a problem at Time Warner or if it was down for everyone.
> 
> 
> Hey OTA guys, anyone have problems with WUAB?*



FWIW, Wide Open West had problems with WUAB-DT last week. I happened to see that Veronica Mars was on the regular channel but when I flipped to the HD channel, got a black screen.


----------



## intermod

looks like your gonna have to rescan....


WUAB-DT 43-1 (28) is showing up as 28-3 OTA.


/Dan


----------



## Inundated

OK, WUAB was pushing through a nearly full signal and no picture. Rescanned 28, and it's back...but still at 43-1 (where it should be), not 28-3 (as reported above) or 28-1 (which I saw earlier in the week).


It looks like Raycom is using WUAB-DT as their PSIP test bed!


----------



## Inundated

I'm still trying to figure out why the digital sides of Channels 5, 8 and 19 are not sending programming information via the PSIP data. I thought that was mandatory now? If Channel 17 got its act together and did it...and 19's sister 43 has done it...why not WEWS, WJW and WOIO?


----------



## Inundated

WOIO's HD feed is live on Adelphia 704.


At least in my house.










No guide data yet. It JUST, and I mean JUST, showed up about 2 minutes ago.


----------



## galevin

Not getting WOIO on 704 here in Shaker Heights yet.


----------



## Inundated

Maybe it's something Adelphia has to push through its various sub-systems...and it hasn't gotten to the east side yet?










It's here in the Adelphia's territory in the Akron area...watching it now. Still no guide data yet, so I can't record anything...


----------



## Inundated

(At this point, Hookbill is muttering and cursing, and saying "damn, does he have a special Adelphia line at his house???")


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *(At this point, Hookbill is muttering and cursing, and saying "damn, does he have a special Adelphia line at his house???")
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yep, it's not up here yet either







Maybe later today????? I'll be checking through the day. I'm in Bainbridge.


----------



## fpo701

Looks like all you Adelphia guys had to do was put that pixilation curse on everyone.


A few posts back, someone mentioned channel 17. What's on there that's worth HD?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *A few posts back, someone mentioned channel 17. What's on there that's worth HD?*



Absolutely nothing.










Channel 17 (DT 39) is WDLI, a station owned and operated by religious broadcaster Trinity Broadcasting Network. It's licensed to Canton, but the DT transmitter is in the Akron area...up in Copley, with WVPX/23 and WONE/97.5, not terribly far from Rolling Acres Mall. (The analog stick is out at the original WJAN-TV studios in Louisville, in Stark County...right along U.S. 62 northeast of Canton.)


No HD programming at all, not even religious. They use 4 SD subchannels, the main OTA (TBN) signal and three specialized channels.


----------



## hookbill

Inundated, have you got guide data yet?


Still no WOIO as of this posting in Bainbridge.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Inundated, have you got guide data yet?
> 
> 
> Still no WOIO as of this posting in Bainbridge.*



A friend of mine in North Olmsted says that WOIO is on but no guide data.


----------



## hookbill

North Olmstead isn't too far away from Bainbridge....maybe it is moving East.


----------



## Inundated

WOIO-HD now has guide data here in northwest Akron.


Hookbill - I keep forgetting you're in Bainbridge. I was near there to pick up something at the Circuit City on the edge of Aurora!


If you're there, you're on the different system, right? We talked about you having the old "Western Reserve" lineup, if I remember right. Looks like they got to us first.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WOIO-HD now has guide data here in northwest Akron.
> 
> 
> Hookbill - I keep forgetting you're in Bainbridge. I was near there to pick up something at the Circuit City on the edge of Aurora!
> 
> 
> If you're there, you're on the different system, right? We talked about you having the old "Western Reserve" lineup, if I remember right. Looks like they got to us first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah, I live real close to that Circuit City. Just around the other side of Geauga Lake. Matter of fact even though I live in Bainbridge I have an Aurora zip code.


Maybe that you have guide data they will be closer to giving it to us now! It's all good, I can wait another day or so...I think.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Maybe that you have guide data they will be closer to giving it to us now! It's all good, I can wait another day or so...I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You must be coming out of a different headend or something... your lineup has, for example, WOIO (analog) on cable 10. We have it on 4, and WOIO-HD is 704 here... I wonder if you'll get it on 704 or 719?


Keep checking! It's likely coming soon...


----------



## hookbill

No, WOIO comes on 4 here. If you went by my zip code that doesn't work for where I live. But we know we're on something different, that was shown with the data problem a while back.


----------



## jtscherne

As of now, still nothing in Shaker Heights.


What do we pay our taxes for????


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *As of now, still nothing in Shaker Heights.
> 
> 
> What do we pay our taxes for????
> 
> 
> *



All I know is they passed some levy and my property taxes are going up a thousand bucks a year.







Don't get me started.


jtscherne, are you in the Cleveland Suburbs area for Adelphia. Looking at the map your closer to Cleveland then I am but you may be in the same group.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm officially in Shaker Heights near the Cleveland border; I'm definitely in a suburban area because I don't get the Cleveland access channels, but I don't know which "area" I actually belong to.


----------



## Inundated

I'm still apparently one of two people with WOIO-HD on Adelphia. OK, three, if you count the guy getting it on the QAM tuner.










And the first few minutes of "19 Action News", someone forgot to flip the switch BACK from the CBS NYC HD feed!







So we saw the first couple of minutes of the show that just ended ("Without a Trace"), followed by color bars with the legend "CBS NEW YORK HD" and a loud BEEEEEEEP.


Someone just figured it out, and switched to the news.


Normally, it's switching INTO HD that throws stations!


----------



## flatiron

From the FCC website applications page, it appears that WKYC has decided to enter the second round of channel elections, thus giving up both channels 3 and 2. Presumably they would later get a UHF or high-VHF.


WEWS has selected Ch. 15. Therefore, it appears there will be no low-VHF in Cleveland. Most stations appear to be going with their DTV assignments and not moving back to thier old analog channels.


Other selections:

WOIO: Ch 10

WUAB: Ch 28

WBNX: Ch 30

WVIZ: Ch 26

WEAO: Ch 50


No application yet for WJW. I assume they would stick with Ch 8.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'm still apparently one of two people with WOIO-HD on Adelphia. OK, three, if you count the guy getting it on the QAM tuner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the first few minutes of "19 Action News", someone forgot to flip the switch BACK from the CBS NYC HD feed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we saw the first couple of minutes of the show that just ended ("Without a Trace"), followed by color bars with the legend "CBS NEW YORK HD" and a loud BEEEEEEEP.
> 
> 
> Someone just figured it out, and switched to the news.
> 
> 
> Normally, it's switching INTO HD that throws stations!*



Talked to a drone at Adelphia Customer Service asked him when the rest of us would be getting the feed. He was clueless (why did I bother?). Said he was in Cleveland didn't have it at his house, blah blah, check channel 1, blah blah, did I try rebooting blah blah, He didn't know that channel was even coming, blah blah. It didn't occur to him to try asking someone who might know anything and I didn't want the poor sob to have to get out of his chair or anything so I just gave up.


6:15 am this morning. No sign of WOIO.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Talked to a drone at Adelphia Customer Service..... blah blah, did I try rebooting blah blah.....*



It's coming in fine now in Chagrin Falls.


Amazing how sometimes those "dumb" CSRs just stumble on the right answer.


I checked this morning (8AM) for channel 704, and it wasn't there. So I unplugged my SA8000HD, waited a few seconds and plugged it back in. After it rebooted, there was channel 704 right along with all the rest.


Give it a try!


----------



## hookbill

Same thing here! Who'd of thunk it, huh?


----------



## hookbill

I think Inundated left that little piece of info off his post so he would be the only one to get WOIO in HD. Inundated, I missed CSI in HD due to your selfishness. I hope you feel real guilty!!!!! May your first HD set be so complicated that you have to hire a professional to install it for you!!!!































JUST KIDDING!!!!!























unless it's true......


----------



## hookbill

OK, I'm receiving WOIO but now my machine won't record ANYTHING!!!!


What happened?


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'm still trying to figure out why the digital sides of Channels 5, 8 and 19 are not sending programming information via the PSIP data. I thought that was mandatory now? If Channel 17 got its act together and did it...and 19's sister 43 has done it...why not WEWS, WJW and WOIO?*



I get programming information from 5, 8, and 19 via OTA with my Dish Network receiver. I wonder if Dish Network is doing that & not the stations? They even have the local programs listed too.


-Todd


----------



## Dweezilz

Had to reboot, but getting WOIO-HD in Twinsburg now. Hookbill, didn't know I lived so close to you!


----------



## hookbill

Is anybody else having recording issues? I deleted all my WOIO programs to record on WOIO HD. Now I can't record anything?


----------



## Dweezilz

I just tested & recording is working just fine. Try unplugging & reboot. If that doesn't work...call Adelphia (yuck).


-Todd


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I just tested & recording is working just fine. Try unplugging & reboot. If that doesn't work...call Adelphia (yuck).
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Thanks.....I did call Adelphia and they resent the signal and for the first time in any of the years I have had cable, it actually worked!


Yep, we're just down the road from each other, but I think your on a different head end then me. Your channel line up is a little different. Don't you get WOIO analog on 10?


----------



## Dweezilz

Yep the analog is on 10. (or digital non-HD as it is now...ha!)


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *From the FCC website applications page, it appears that WKYC has decided to enter the second round of channel elections, thus giving up both channels 3 and 2.*



Flatiron - could you please translate this for us? Or is there a page that explains what the second round of channel elections is all about? What's the time table for this transition?


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Yep the analog is on 10. (or digital non-HD as it is now...ha!)*



I thought so. I get analog WOIO on 4. Weird how they have the system divided up. I'll bet if one of us would have rebooted yesterday we could have gotten WOIO. I still think Inundated is holding out on us.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Flatiron - could you please translate this for us? Or is there a page that explains what the second round of channel elections is all about? What's the time table for this transition?
> 
> 
> Thanks!*



Each station is currently assigned two channels - an analog (NTSC) channel and a DTV channel (e.g. WEWS, whose analog is 5 and DTV is 15).


The Channel Election process concerns which of the 2 channels a given station will use when analog NTSC broadcasting is shut down in a few years.


In the first round, which ended this week, each station filed a form with the FCC indicating which channel they will use when analog broadcasting ends.


However, there are additional options for stations which are assigned one or more "out-of-core" channels (channels above 51, which will be used for other services), and stations assigned two "low-VHF" channels (2-6). The latter condition applies to WKYC (assigned Ch 3 and Ch 2[DTV] - see all the posts in the thread concerning receptions problems with low VHF). The idea is that in the second and third rounds, these stations will be able to pick available high-VHF(7-13) and in-core UHF (14-51, excluding 37) channels.


You can search for the applications from the FCC's Media Bureau web site ( fcc.gov/mb ). Then go to "Video Division", then "TV Query", enter the appropriate search terms. Click on the station call letters, then "Application List". Look near the top of the resulting list for an application with a code like "BFRECT" and a date in Jan/Feb 2005 (e.g. 20050210...). Click on "Application" under "Details" column to see Channel Election form for that station.


None of this will probably happen for several years, when analog is shut down.


So, it all boils down to this:


WKYC-DT NBC 3.1 (DTV 2 ) moves to unknown channel

WEWS-DT ABC 5.1 (DTV 15) stays on 15

WJW-DT Fox 8.1 (DTV 31) DTV moves back to 8

WOIO-DT CBS 19.1 (DTV 10) stays on 10

WVPX-DT PAX (Akron) 23.1 (DTV 59 - not on air) selects 23

WVIZ-DT PBS 25.1 (DTV 26) stays on 26

WDLI-DT (Canton) 17.1 (DTV 39) stays on 39

WUAB-DT UPN 43.1 (DTV 28) stays on 28

WEAO-DT PBS (Akron) 50.1 (DTV 50) stays on 50

WBNX-DT WB 55.1 (DTV 30 - not on air) selects 30

WQHS-DT UNI 61.1 (DTV 34) stays on 34

WOAC-DT (Canton) 67.1 (DTV 47) stays on 47


Hope this helps.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I thought so. I get analog WOIO on 4. Weird how they have the system divided up. I'll bet if one of us would have rebooted yesterday we could have gotten WOIO. I still think Inundated is holding out on us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Hey, knock it off, man!










Seriously...WOIO-HD came in for me WITHOUT rebooting. At all. The channel just showed up! I was watching WJW's DT feed (708) when the screen flashed a little bit (and I mean a LITTLE bit). A small glitch.


Something in me saw that and said "hmm, I wonder if that happened because they threw in WOIO?"...and sure enough, tuned to 704 and there it was.


Oddly enough, this afternoon, I'm getting locking up on WOIO and some of the other HD channels, including right now, in the middle of typing this post. There, it just came back after a minute or so. I just now rebooted the box because it lost sound on the HD channels ONLY.


But honest, I didn't reboot when WOIO first showed up...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *None of this will probably happen for several years, when analog is shut down.*



Thank you for the *excellent* summary. It's good to hear that even the FCC is apparently aware of the low-VHF issues.


I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Thank you for the *excellent* summary. It's good to hear that even the FCC is apparently aware of the low-VHF issues.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.*



I wonder why WOIO wouldn't try to get a different channel? From what I've read in the past, they have to run at lower power because they could interfer with a detroit station that has 10 up there. That accounts for the dropouts & generally weaker signal than the rest of the local nets. If that's true, it makes little sense for them to keep 10.


-T


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I wonder why WOIO wouldn't try to get a different channel? From what I've read in the past, they have to run at lower power because they could interfer with a detroit station that has 10 up there. That accounts for the dropouts & generally weaker signal than the rest of the local nets. If that's true, it makes little sense for them to keep 10.*



Or for that matter, why don't they hang onto 19 after the switchover?










It doesn't bother me that much. With my infamous indoor antenna, 19 is the hardest station to get aside from WKYC, but not THAT difficult. I can usually move the aerials to get them OTA with few dropout problems. I hope WJW will be the same when it moves to DT 8.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Hey, knock it off, man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously...WOIO-HD came in for me WITHOUT rebooting. At all. The channel just showed up! I was watching WJW's DT feed (708) when the screen flashed a little bit (and I mean a LITTLE bit). A small glitch.
> 
> 
> Something in me saw that and said "hmm, I wonder if that happened because they threw in WOIO?"...and sure enough, tuned to 704 and there it was.
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, this afternoon, I'm getting locking up on WOIO and some of the other HD channels, including right now, in the middle of typing this post. There, it just came back after a minute or so. I just now rebooted the box because it lost sound on the HD channels ONLY.
> 
> 
> But honest, I didn't reboot when WOIO first showed up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



OK, dude.....I'll believe you. But you gotta wonder why YOU always seem to get this "preferential" treatment.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Or for that matter, why don't they hang onto 19 after the switchover?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't bother me that much. With my infamous indoor antenna, 19 is the hardest station to get aside from WKYC, but not THAT difficult. I can usually move the aerials to get them OTA with few dropout problems. I hope WJW will be the same when it moves to DT 8.*



Well, since you have WOIO on Adelphia now what difference does it make? You won't have to move you antenna....unless your talking about a different set.


----------



## Dweezilz

You are right, it won't matter now for me at least! After the All-Star game, it's time to sell the Dish Box (gotta keep it for TNT-HD for the game!) and cancel the $15 per month for their HD package. I don't really need the OTA for anything since I don't ever what WUAB.


-T


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, since you have WOIO on Adelphia now what difference does it make? You won't have to move you antenna....unless your talking about a different set.*



In case I decide to dump Adelphia for a dish...until D* gets the Cleveland market locals in HD.


I'm actually fairly satisfied with Adelphia right now, though their cost is through the roof...


And you're right, I do get preferential treatment...my guide data has never had a problem!







Heh.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I wonder why WOIO wouldn't try to get a different channel? From what I've read in the past, they have to run at lower power because they could interfer with a detroit station that has 10 up there. That accounts for the dropouts & generally weaker signal than the rest of the local nets. If that's true, it makes little sense for them to keep 10.
> 
> 
> -T*



Not to mention WBNS Ch 10 in Columbus (DTV 21), which has also selected 10 for DTV operation. It's hard to believe that you can have co-channel DTV stations in Cleveland and Columbus w/o the two signals overlapping, say around Mansfield or Ashland. Unless WOIO continues to run 3.5kW or a very directional pattern away from Columbus.


Ditto for WUAB and WTTE (Fox 28 Columbus) both selecting Ch 28.


I guess WOIO wants the VHF because of the lower TX power requirement.


----------



## jtscherne

Add me to the list of Adelphia people who now get WOIO after I rebooted the box. (Shaker Heights) I was able to record without any problems.


You have to wonder about the people out there who don't know about this (and don't know they're now supposed to be getting Channel 19!)


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Thank you for the *excellent* summary. It's good to hear that even the FCC is apparently aware of the low-VHF issues.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.*



The biggest problem with WOIO is the low power (3.5kW I believe). They also run a directional pattern with a null to the north (maybe to protect a Canadian station?). Could explain why so many people near the Lake report having trouble receivng them.


WOIO is my third most difficult station (possible to get w/ an indoor antenna, but alignment is very tricky) after WKYC and WEAO (where I have terrain issues with).


WKYC I can't get at all w/o an outdoor antenna. A StealthAntenna mounted about 10ft high works fine in my case. The station is unwatchable, though, on many summer nights due to thunderstorm activity and tropo/skip.


If WJW-DT is running 50kW or so on Ch 8 (which they probably will be able to when all the analogs are gone) you should have NO TROUBLE receiving them.


Also, I understand that most UHF antennas work fine on high-VHF stations, at least strong local ones.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Add me to the list of Adelphia people who now get WOIO after I rebooted the box. (Shaker Heights) I was able to record without any problems.
> 
> 
> You have to wonder about the people out there who don't know about this (and don't know they're now supposed to be getting Channel 19!)*



Yeah, I'll bet. I wouldn't be surprised however within the next day or two they might become aware of it and just reboot all the units.


I did tell my source at Adelphia about the reboot by I have no idea if she took it beyond what I told her.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *WKYC I can't get at all w/o an outdoor antenna. A StealthAntenna mounted about 10ft high works fine in my case. The station is unwatchable, though, on many summer nights due to thunderstorm activity and tropo/skip.*



Interesting. I thought the Stealth was UHF only? As you noted, UHF antennas could still do OK with high-VHF'ers, but WKYC obviously is not... am I wrong?


----------



## Dweezilz

I can get WKYC with my Stealthtenna which is mounted to a 8 foot pole as well. I usually don't have problems, although it takes a few seconds for it to lock on.


-Todd


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Interesting. I thought the Stealth was UHF only? As you noted, UHF antennas could still do OK with high-VHF'ers, but WKYC obviously is not... am I wrong?*



No, the Stealth is VHF/UHF.


----------



## Dweezilz

Looks like Adelphia rebooted the boxes as we guessed they might. I had to go through the setup wizard again this morning as my screen was all funky. Anyone else notice this today?


-Todd


----------



## jtscherne

That's unusual. Usually when I can tell that my box has been rebooted (box comes up on channel 1 when I turn it on), I never have to go through setup.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *No, the Stealth is VHF/UHF.*



Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.


I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.
> 
> 
> I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.*



You're in Cuyahoga Falls, right? I would think you would be able to get WFMJ-DT for sure - they're 460kW at 295m and their pattern favors the west. You may have a shot at WYTV (ABC) too, although I think they are low power. How do the Youngstown analogs come in where you are?


I can get a very snowy picture on WFMJ's analog here, about 8 miles west of Medina, even with an indoor antenna. Have had no luck with their DT though.


EDIT


whoops, I was looking at WFMJ's construction permit, not their actual licensed parameters. They are 200kW at 235m HAAT. However, eastern Akron/Cuyahoga Falls is shown as barely inside their DT service contour.


----------



## Inundated

Here's some insight into the reasons WVPX/23 and WBNX/55 are not on the air yet.


In their channel elections...stations have to explain Canadian coordination issues. It turns out that even by "electing" to go to 23 for DT operation, since 59 is "out of core", WVPX has more Canadian issues!



> Quote:
> TELEVISION STATION WVPX, AKRON, OHIO, OPERATES ON CHANNEL 23 ANALOG AND WAS ALLOCATED CHANNEL 59 AS ITS PAIRED DIGITAL CHANNEL. SINCE DIGITAL CHANNEL 59 IS OUTSIDE THE CORE, THE STATION PRESUMABLY WOULD HAVE TO OPERATE IN DIGITAL ON WVPXS ANALOG CHANNEL 23 AFTER THE CLOSE OF THE DTV TRANSITION. TO REPLICATE THE STATIONS EXISTING ANALOG SERVICE AREA ON DIGITAL CHANNEL 23 [ASSUMING SAME ANTENNA AT THE SAME HEIGHT] THE STATION COULD OPERATE WITH A MAXIMUM ERP OF 197 KW WITHOUT EXCEEDING ANY FCC INTERFERENCE STANDARDS TO OTHER US ASSIGNMENTS AND ALLOTMENTS.
> 
> 
> HOWEVER, UNDER THE CANADIAN LOU, DIGITAL OPERATION OF WVPX ON CHANNEL 23 FROM THE CURRENT SITE WOULD CREATE A SHORT-SPACING TO CBLN, LONDON, ONTARIO. THE LOU REQUIRES A MINIMUM SEPARATION BETWEEN CBLN AND WVPX-DT OF 340 KM BUT THE ACTUAL SEPARATION IS 210.9 KM. ACCORDINGLY, DIGITAL OPERATION ON THE ANALOG ALLOTMENT IS INADEQUATE FOR PURPOSES OF PRESERVING RELIED-UPON SERVICE AND ENSURING THAT EXISTING VIEWERS MAY CONTINUE TO RECEIVE WVPXS PROGRAMMING. THEREFORE, INTERNATIONAL COORDINATION WITH CANADA IS REQUESTED. THIS CHANNEL ELECTION SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A REQUEST FOR FLASH CUT AUTHORITY.



So, basically, they're begging for more help coordinating with Canada.










WBNX's situation is explained in this PDF file attached to its channel selection of 30. Like WVPX, its other channel (now analog 55) is "out of core" and can't be selected:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs...ibit_id=281153 


The guts of THIS one...WBNX is trying to inform the FCC that they're using FCC guidelines to minimize interference to the Canadian station on DT 30, using a special directional antenna with "beam tilt". The station believes that since no objections have been filed to their latest application, filed about a year ago, the application should be granted.


Odd.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *That's unusual. Usually when I can tell that my box has been rebooted (box comes up on channel 1 when I turn it on), I never have to go through setup.*



Yeah I think it is a bit strange, but since I got this 8300HD, each time it's rebooted (when I first got it, yesterday when I unplugged to get CBS & then today), my screen comes up all red looking. I thought the box was bad the 1st time, but when I ran through the wizard it was fine. When I 1st run the wizard, it'll sit on the SD screen for about 15 seconds or so, then when it goes to the HD input screen, the colors are normalized.


Not a clue why this happens, but my box definately rebooted at some point last night.


-Todd


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.
> 
> 
> I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.*



Here' WFMJ-DT's service contour (from FCC TV Query) with their current parameters (200kW).


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.
> 
> 
> I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.*



And here's WYTV-DT.


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Looks like Adelphia rebooted the boxes as we guessed they might. I had to go through the setup wizard again this morning as my screen was all funky. Anyone else notice this today?
> 
> 
> -Todd*



When you first get the 8300HD it will be funky for about 48hrs. it needs to get a second download from SA. After that, it will be fine.


Now some more good news










ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Here's some insight into the reasons WVPX/23 and WBNX/55 are not on the air yet.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> *



Very interesting. Unbelievable that the FCC apparently didn't coordinate with Canada when assigning all these DTV channels to US stations close to the border.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *When you first get the 8300HD it will be funky for about 48hrs. it needs to get a second download from SA. After that, it will be fine.
> 
> 
> Now some more good news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.*



The only problem with that is that I've had it for 3 weeks. Any time I reboot, the screen is red & out of wack looking. Need to do the wizard to fix it. This is the only time it's ever rebooted on it's own in 3 weeks, so I'm assuming it was done by Adelphia. That is good news about ESPN2-HD. I wish they would add TNT-HD as well.


-Todd


----------



## paule123

Dweezilz, if the 8300HD component outs are the same as the 8000HD, SA chose to save 5 cents on the design and make one of the component jacks do double duty as a composite video out. I assume your box is resetting to a default composite video out configuration, thus losing your "blue" or "green" component signal.


FWIW, my SA8000HD always remembers it's output configuration if I reboot or unplug.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *When you first get the 8300HD it will be funky for about 48hrs. it needs to get a second download from SA. After that, it will be fine.
> 
> 
> Now some more good news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.*



Ya know, everytime I get an email saying this dude has posted it's always good news!


How well we know about the first 48 hours, huh handsworth?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *Here' WFMJ-DT's service contour (from FCC TV Query) with their current parameters (200kW).*



Yeah, I know, I post those maps on AVSForum all the time.










I'm right *on the edge* of the WFMJ service contour. The blue line goes right through here. I've had varying success with an indoor antenna getting a very faint and not really watchable analog signal out of them, and haven't gotten a peep of digital signal out of them, even with an amplified antenna.


I'm just wondering if putting a StealthTenna out there will change anything. I sense there are terrain issues between me and the Youngstown sticks. (Remember, they're down south of downtown, and they're "in the Valley" over there.)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by handsworth_
> *ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.*



Hip hip, hooray!


As far as I know, the ONLY people getting ESPN2HD anywhere in the nation right now are some Adelphia customers up in Connecticut or something. Maybe Adelphia's getting a fiber-optic feed from Bristol there.


----------



## jamawass




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Hip hip, hooray!
> 
> 
> As far as I know, the ONLY people getting ESPN2HD anywhere in the nation right now are some Adelphia customers up in Connecticut or something. Maybe Adelphia's getting a fiber-optic feed from Bristol there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.


----------



## denverb2b

Which channel in Cleveland is HD FOX


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jamawass_
> *ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.*



As far as I know everybody now has CBS in Cleveland in HD. If your an Adelphia customer and you don't see it on your list, try rebooting.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jamawass_
> *ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.*



Cavs games aren't on in HD on WUAB or FOXSOH. They are on ESPN-HD or TNT-HD. There is no FOXSOH HD as far as I know. So as I said in my earlier post for the very reason stated here (to watch the Cavs in HD), I wish they'd get TNT-HD. It's the only reason I'm hanging on to Dish Network HD for an extra $15 per month on top of Adelphia.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by denverb2b_
> *Which channel in Cleveland is HD FOX*



If you are talking Fox sports...none.


----------



## Inundated

I haven't heard even any rumblings that FSN Ohio is going to do anything in HD. Nothing. Zip. And I'd pretty much bet the farm that WUAB won't be doing any Cavs games in HD. WUAB, of course, does do HD itself, but only for passing through UPN network shows.


The situation may change next year or the year after, but for this year...you're only going to see the Cavs or Indians in HD on existing national networks like TNT-HD or ESPN-HD. (If I remember right, there's at least one Cavs game on ESPN-HD this coming month...after the one that aired this past week. Having LeBron on your team tends to get you more ESPN love.







)


With the addition of Adelphia, I believe every major cable MSO in Northeast Ohio carries WOIO/CBS-HD. Time Warner added them a couple of weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure both Cox and Comcast have 'em. So, you'll definitely be set for Browns games this fall.


----------



## jtscherne

As already mentioned, CBS is now available on Adelphia. WUAB is not broadcasting any local sports in HD, so the Cavs games wouldn't be in high definition, and Fox Sports Ohio doesn't even have a high definition channel. So don't blame Adelphia for not carrying something that isn't even available.




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jamawass_
> *ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.*


----------



## bubblegum1647

With the addition of Adelphia, I believe every major cable MSO in Northeast Ohio carries WOIO/CBS-HD. Time Warner added them a couple of weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure both Cox and Comcast have 'em. So, you'll definitely be set for Browns games this fall. [/b][/quote]



Not all ARMSTRONG CABLE doe not have it yet. Still waiting. Come on Armstrong.


----------



## denverb2b

Why is it WEWS OTA does not fill the screen. I always got the sides missing on my 60 inch widescreen. I have it set to full and its coming in 720p 16:9. I have to use zoom to fill the screen. PBS OTA is not doing this.


any anwsers or does no one feel like anwsersing questions in this forum


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by denverb2b_
> *Why is it WEWS OTA does not fill the screen. I always got the sides missing on my 60 inch widescreen. I have it set to full and its coming in 720p 16:9. I have to use zoom to fill the screen. PBS OTA is not doing this.
> 
> 
> any anwsers or does no one feel like anwsersing questions in this forum*



I'd be happy to answer your question, but I do not get OTA I have Adelphia.....However, we get the same picture that OTA gets so I can tell you they fill the screen on local broadcast but when showing network shows if it is not in HD it does not fill the screen.


To tell you the truth, I'd rather they not stretch the picture and leave that option to me.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by denverb2b_
> *Why is it WEWS OTA does not fill the screen. I always got the sides missing on my 60 inch widescreen. I have it set to full and its coming in 720p 16:9. I have to use zoom to fill the screen. PBS OTA is not doing this.
> 
> 
> any anwsers or does no one feel like anwsersing questions in this forum*



Not sure why the need to say what you did in that last line there. Everyone contributes here & is willing to help. Did I miss something where we weren't answering questions in this forum? If you asked the question previously & it went unanswered, a simple on that topic would suffice instead of sarcasm which usually gets you nowhere.


In this case however, I'll also help answer your question.


I have OTA & Adelphia. For WEWS, hookbill is correct. It is indeed the same situation on both. They don't stretch their SD content like some of the other locals do on national SD feeds. I can't recall what they do with local SD, but I'll go with hookbill that they do stretch that. The national SD feeds are sent with the black sidebars built into the 16:9 picture. WEWS just passes that along without stretching it. The only way to get rid of that is to zoom. Now if you have having problems with HD content on WEWS not filling your screen, then you have a setting problem with your TV or box (which we can't help fix without knowing the TV or box).


I'd say that the issue is just how WEWS sends SD material.


Hope that helps.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I have OTA & Adelphia. For WEWS, hookbill is correct. It is indeed the same situation on both. They don't stretch their SD content like some of the other locals do on national SD feeds. I can't recall what they do with local SD, but I'll go with hookbill that they do stretch that. The national SD feeds are sent with the black sidebars built into the 16:9 picture. WEWS just passes that along without stretching it.*



As I was reading this message the first time, I was wondering what you were talking about...as I was watching WEWS-DT, and they were running ABC's "World News Tonight'" in lovely stretch-o-vision.


And earlier today, they were running NBA basketball (Cavs vs. Lakers, go Cavs!) in stretch mode.


But since then, I think I have figured it out.


They just went into primetime with the SD-only "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition". It appears they do stretching outside of prime-time...and none in prime-time, as this show is not stretched.


----------



## Dweezilz

Inundated, you aren't supposed to tell everyone you watch Extreme Makeover : Home Edition! The secrete is out! HA!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Inundated, you aren't supposed to tell everyone you watch Extreme Makeover : Home Edition! The secrete is out! HA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Honest, it was just a tune-by!










Actually, as I'm not terribly aware of what show is on what night, I usually run by all the OTA HD stations at 8 PM (7 PM Sundays) to see who's running HD shows...


----------



## paule123

Tonight I was checking OTA vs. cable, and the Grammys were coming in Dolby ProLogic II via the SA8000HD cable box (Wide Open West), but on my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA, I was getting simple "stereo". Weird???


As a side note, this is the first broadcast I have heard truly good surround with Dolby PLII, all others have been very lame compared to Fox's DD5.1....


----------



## jtscherne

How was your picture for the Grammies OTA and with WOW? I was very unimpressed with my Adelphia picture. Lots of pixelation and I often felt that that the picture was not particularly sharp.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Tonight I was checking OTA vs. cable, and the Grammys were coming in Dolby ProLogic II via the SA8000HD cable box (Wide Open West), but on my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA, I was getting simple "stereo". Weird???
> 
> 
> As a side note, this is the first broadcast I have heard truly good surround with Dolby PLII, all others have been very lame compared to Fox's DD5.1....*



Dolby ProLogic is just a stereo signal. ProLogic just uses ambience information in the regular two-channel feed to decode the surround information. And, yes, because it uses this technique, it rarely sounds anywhere near as good as full Dolby Digital. For that matter, ProLogic will extract some surround information from any stereo feed - even one that has no DPL encoding at all.


I'm not aware of any way for a receiver to "detect" ProLogic - generally, it is used only when the user turns it on. So my guess is that you have it turned on for the input that accepts your cable box, but not on the input that accepts your OTA receiver.


As for the Grammy video, I was disappointed, too. Some of the problems in the video may be Adelphia's and/or CBS's, but some seem to be inherent in digital video broadcast. For example, some of those strobing effects - you can't change that much of the screen with that rapidity without triggering pixelization. Even at the highest bandwidths allowable on the air, you're going to see pixelization. So television producers are going to have to learn how to work in the digital broadcast world. On an event that is produced specifically for television, they should be able to avoid effects that trigger broadcast problems like these.


----------



## hookbill

Grammys? You mean somebody actually watches that stuff?


Well, my first recordings off of Adlephia/WOIO HD were JAG and Numb3rs. I fell asleep during the latter, but JAG looked good.


One question for you OTA folks. It was my understanding that CBS had Dolby 5.1. I thought maybe they didn't happen to use it on the two shows I recorded but now your saying it wasn't on the Grammys either. Do they not have Dolby?


----------



## Shark73

CBS offers DD 5.1, but Fox and NBC are the only local stations with DD 5.1


CBS does a good job with the 5.1. I usually watch shows on DirecTv's CBS E/W feed because of the 5.1 vs. WOIO who refuses to upgrade.


----------



## hookbill

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Still I have to admit my Dolby Pro Logic II does a great job with the sound. Even football games on 804 (Adelphia's "digital") was noticeably better then on their analog station.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Still I have to admit my Dolby Pro Logic II does a great job with the sound. Even football games on 804 (Adelphia's "digital") was noticeably better then on their analog station.*



I thought that Adelphia's digital locals were on 3, 5, 8, 10 and the 800's were the analog versions (which use to be on 3,5, 8, & 10). I'm pretty sure that's what they said. The 800 version look terrible to me while 3, 5, 8, & 10 look much better than they did previously.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *How was your picture for the Grammies OTA and with WOW? I was very unimpressed with my Adelphia picture. Lots of pixelation and I often felt that that the picture was not particularly sharp.*



The PQ was excellent other than when the strobe lights came into play. There was one band where the strobes were constantly flashing through the whole performance with the camera gyrating quite a bit and the picture pretty much fell apart. Other than the strobe thing it was excellent PQ.


I thought the picture wasn't that great at first until I realized I had my SA8000HD set for 720p from last week's Super Bowl. Once I switched it to 1080i all was well. Just proof once again the internal scaler in that box isn't all that great.


BTW, I'm not a big awards show fan either, it was one of those things (like the Academy Awards) that I will take a look at just because it's in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I thought that Adelphia's digital locals were on 3, 5, 8, 10 and the 800's were the analog versions (which use to be on 3,5, 8, & 10). I'm pretty sure that's what they said. The 800 version look terrible to me while 3, 5, 8, & 10 look much better than they did previously.*



Nope, it's the other way around. Think about it. You need a digital box to receive the digital signals. 3, 5, 8, 10 (channel 4 in my area) you can get with just the cable hooked up to the tv. That's the way I have my bedroom tv set up (I only watch local news there).


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah, I must have had a momentary brain cramp. I was so tuned into the fact that the analog version actually look much better on my HDTV than do the 800 tier versions that I forgot which was which. Thought they were doing something where the lower ones were digital if you had a digital box & analog if you used basic cable. I'm assuming that the box itself is capable of delivering digital channels below 100 no?


At any rate, I just read a few old posts & saw Inundated also found the same with the lower tier locals (analog?) looking better than the 800 tier. Are we 100% sure what we are seeing is correct? I have no clue why analog channels would look better.


----------



## Dweezilz

I have a buddy who just got CBS for the 1st time in HD. He has only watched the Grammy's so far, which looked horrible (as we discussed today). He also said they are the only ones that don't do their local news in HD so basically, CBS stinks for HD.


I told him that FOX is the only channel that does local news in HD & that in general, FOX's HD isn't considered very good at this point while CBS is the leader in HD. They've been doing it the longest & still today have the best looking HD shows. For some reason he doesn't believe me. ABC has come a long way with their sport presentations, but still can't match up to CBS. I don't think there is another show on TV that looks as good as CSI-Miami still today.


Anyway, I even called WKYC & WEWS to make sure I wasn't going crazy & they also said they don't broadcast news in HD (which I already knew).


Can you guys please veryify for him again that FOX is the only channel doing their local news in HDTV & that CBS is still arguably the leader in HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Can you guys please veryify for him again that FOX is the only channel doing their local news in HDTV & that CBS is still arguably the leader in HD.*



None of the local affiliates do HD local news aside from FOX 8.


WKYC, for example, debuted their "digital broadcast center" in 1999 (no HD in the actual studio). The equipment may be newer and the digital quality may make their SD cast look better, but it's still not HD. And for that matter. FOX 8 itself has been using those HD cameras - downconverted to SD - for 2 years. Same principle.


WOIO's SD/local PQ is horrible. I'm not sure how old their equipment is, or if it dates back to 1986 or so (when independent-then-FOX affiliate "WOIO nineteen" went on the air). But it's noticably worse than WKYC and WEWS, comparing SD to SD.


The CBS *network* stuff looks better to me even via WOIO, since it's not using any of their crappy SD equipment...and it looks slightly better to me than FOX or even ABC's 720p. And I'm watching a downconverted-to-480i signal on my SD analog set (via component video). I can ALWAYS tell the difference. The best looking HD feeds are always the 1080i feeds, and I can clearly tell which is sharper, even on my setup. Channels like HDNet/HDMovies/INHD1/2/Discovery HD are always more breathtaking to me than even ESPN's 720p. Again, this is watching on an analog set with the signal downconverted to 480i by the box!


Oh, yes, I did say that the analog PQ on, for example, WOIO (Ch. 4) is noticably better than the PQ on the digital SD version on 804. And this is a fairly recent occurence...the PQ used to really stink. My running theory is that the encoding they are using on the digital/804 version is encoding what remaining light "snow" there is on the analog feed.


One thing I've also noticed...the 8xx channels do not take any time to reencode vs. the other digital (SD) channels, i.e. the 100 series. I'm not sure what that means. But when you tune in the 100 series, it takes a second or two for the channel to pop up, and the 800 series channels pop up almost instantly.


----------



## paule123

Yes, Fox is the only local news broadcast in HD. WKYC (NBC) "looks" HD but in fact is a very good 480p. ABC and CBS local news are not HD.


I would agree CBS is the best, all around, of the major networks in HD. But DiscoveryHD and HDNet look even better.


When you say the Grammys looked that bad, I wonder if Adelphia is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new CBS HD channel? I had that problem with HDNet and Discovery when WOW first launched HD service. I had a conversation with engineering there and sure enough they didn't have enough bandwidth allocated. They had been running HD for a few days and nobody noticed the PQ problem until I called in!


----------



## Inundated

One other thought about your friend's CBS station - do they multicast at all? Multicasting can definitely affect PQ, especially if the original source is having any problems.


The Grammies looked fine to me last night, but the strobing was definitely bad. When it wasn't strobing, it was good. WOIO, of course, doesn't multicast, but the other affiliate in the other city might.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *When you say the Grammys looked that bad, I wonder if Adelphia is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new CBS HD channel? I had that problem with HDNet and Discovery when WOW first launched HD service. I had a conversation with engineering there and sure enough they didn't have enough bandwidth allocated. They had been running HD for a few days and nobody noticed the PQ problem until I called in!*



Even on my 480i/analog set/downconverted setup, I did notice that Adelphia's WOIO-HD feed looked a little softer than WOIO looked on my OTA box. For now, I have the OTA box feeding S-video to the set, and even with that difference, it looked sharper than the component video feeding out of the 8000HD.


----------



## Inundated

Local news in order of PQ:


1) WJW FOX 8. By default, since they're the only HD local newscast. But they looked better even when using those HD studio cameras in SD, before they switched to HD on the show. I'm still not sure if they have any HD field cameras, as the live shots look (in my opinion) a LITTLE softer than HD should look... but they always do the live shots in 16:9, even in SD.


2) WKYC/3. They must have gotten the last generation of SD-only digital equipment. (Does anyone know if they did that one HD promo for their news a ways back in-house?)


3) WEWS NewsChannel 5. A notch below WKYC in my eyes, PQ wise, but not THAT far behind.


4) WOIO 19 Action News. Someone here described it best - "they have the contrast set up to 11". Washed out and pretty bad...though on my 4:3 set, not zooming it out of pillarbox mode helps a LITTLE.


----------



## hookbill

I feel that WKYC news is the worst, their stretch o vision makes everybody look fat. Hey, I want to see some nice looking girls on the newscast. If I want fat, I look in the mirror.










WEWS news looks better to me.


WJW is the best because it is HD and they do a great job of going from HD to SD. I just hate their newscast.


Despite Inundated opinion, I really like WOIO because of their in your face attitude.


OK, now as far as pq. I like what I see on CBS so far, I've only looked at two shows. IMHO, and please remember I'm always right NBC gets the booby prize, specially after last week. Inundated, your probably not aware of how they were missing the middle speaker through a quarter of The West Wing and then they went to SD after 15 minutes. I had to figure out what was going on without seeing the first part of the show. Then they tried to go back to HD in the last 15 minutes and after 5 minutes of no sound in the center speaker, they gave up and went back to SD.


They didn't even try to show Law & Order in HD.


For those that don't know, center speaker is where the dialog comes from.


Also NBC had the absolute worst picture I have ever seen on Medical Emergency on last Friday night. I don't know quite how to describe it except it had an orange line through the majority of the show and you could see panels on the screen. Occasionally there were even ghosts which as far as I knew were not suppose to happen in HD.


Having said that, I'll still say it is better then thei "digital" picture (adelphia).


ABC surprisingly always looks real good to me. I like the look of LOST and Boston Legal. CBS may have the best but I can't really say until I look at their shows later this week.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I feel that WKYC news is the worst, their stretch o vision makes everybody look fat. Hey, I want to see some nice looking girls on the newscast. If I want fat, I look in the mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Hah.










Well, having a 4:3 set, I use the 8000HD's "Stretch" to squeeze the stretch-o-vision back to 4:3. And it looks good when I do that. If you kicked it back into 4:3, you'd probably think it's a little better than WEWS...but it might be just me










As far as NBC, it's apparently been having some issues with HD nationally (see the Programming boards for more). I don't notice the 5.1 stuff because I'm still pumping just ordinary stereo out of my TV. But I know that at the network level (I think), they had to dump some shows in the past 2-3 weeks into SD because of the 5.1 sound issues. There've been other network HD problems with NBC, too.


And unlike CBS/WOIO locally, WKYC does multicast, with the SD feed on 3-2 and the weather radar (soon to be "NBC Weather Plus") on 3-3. Some of the HD problems you've noted could be due to WKYC's reduced bandwidth. 1080i - multicasting can impact the HD feed. 720p (ABC/FOX), you can usually fit in one SD channel without doing harm to the HD feed.


WOIO's HD with CBS looks pretty good. It's just their crummy SD that looks awful. The night they went live on Adelphia, since I was apparently the only person who didn't have to reboot (







), they were running the syndicated "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire". The PQ was AWFUL even on the HD (SD upconvert) feed. There were actually lines of interference rolling through the picture, lines I also saw on the digital SD and analog feeds of WOIO on Adelphia, and also saw on the HD feed (upconverted SD) OTA. And the dark "Millionaire" set, almost fully black, didn't help.


When WOIO went to a commercial, the lines went away. I can only assume that the lines came from a fading videotape that they used to record the show.


ABC/FOX HD look good to me, but I can always see that 1080i (non-multicast) looks a LITTLE better.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *One other thought about your friend's CBS station - do they multicast at all? Multicasting can definitely affect PQ, especially if the original source is having any problems.
> 
> 
> The Grammies looked fine to me last night, but the strobing was definitely bad. When it wasn't strobing, it was good. WOIO, of course, doesn't multicast, but the other affiliate in the other city might.*



He has Adelphia in Cleveland. I didn't watch last night so it's hard to comment, but last year didn't look all that hot from what I can recall.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Yes, Fox is the only local news broadcast in HD. WKYC (NBC) "looks" HD but in fact is a very good 480p. ABC and CBS local news are not HD.
> 
> 
> I would agree CBS is the best, all around, of the major networks in HD. But DiscoveryHD and HDNet look even better.
> 
> 
> When you say the Grammys looked that bad, I wonder if Adelphia is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new CBS HD channel? I had that problem with HDNet and Discovery when WOW first launched HD service. I had a conversation with engineering there and sure enough they didn't have enough bandwidth allocated. They had been running HD for a few days and nobody noticed the PQ problem until I called in!*



I wish I would have watched last night to compare since I have OTA & Adelphia, but I was busy. As for CBS being the leader in HD, I was only refering to local networks, not the HD only channels such as DiscoveryHD & HDnet etc... When those channels show regular HD (not transfers), they look amazing. The only network show I've seen that can stand up to some of the best shows on DiscoveryHD would be CSI-Miami which looks killer.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I feel that WKYC news is the worst, their stretch o vision makes everybody look fat. Hey, I want to see some nice looking girls on the newscast. If I want fat, I look in the mirror.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WEWS news looks better to me.
> 
> 
> WJW is the best because it is HD and they do a great job of going from HD to SD. I just hate their newscast.
> 
> 
> Despite Inundated opinion, I really like WOIO because of their in your face attitude.
> 
> 
> OK, now as far as pq. I like what I see on CBS so far, I've only looked at two shows. IMHO, and please remember I'm always right NBC gets the booby prize, specially after last week. Inundated, your probably not aware of how they were missing the middle speaker through a quarter of The West Wing and then they went to SD after 15 minutes. I had to figure out what was going on without seeing the first part of the show. Then they tried to go back to HD in the last 15 minutes and after 5 minutes of no sound in the center speaker, they gave up and went back to SD.
> 
> 
> They didn't even try to show Law & Order in HD.
> 
> 
> For those that don't know, center speaker is where the dialog comes from.
> 
> 
> Also NBC had the absolute worst picture I have ever seen on Medical Emergency on last Friday night. I don't know quite how to describe it except it had an orange line through the majority of the show and you could see panels on the screen. Occasionally there were even ghosts which as far as I knew were not suppose to happen in HD.
> 
> 
> Having said that, I'll still say it is better then thei "digital" picture (adelphia).
> 
> 
> ABC surprisingly always looks real good to me. I like the look of LOST and Boston Legal. CBS may have the best but I can't really say until I look at their shows later this week.*



I wish NBC was better since I watch the most shows on that network. Their HD PQ on ER, Law & Order, Third Watch, etc... are all pretty bad. The original Law & Order seems to have the best HD PQ, although it's still inferior to CBS & ABC. I think the ABC shows like Alias look good, but nothing on any of the networks can compare to CBS shows as far as PQ goes. Too bad I only watch CSI / Miami & sometimes Without a trace! But they look fabulous!! 24's HD picture on Fox looks barely better than their 480p!


I've compared OTA vs. Adelphia & on the local networks, OTA seems sharper by a slight margin. The other networks like HDnet & ESPN seem about the same. I'd bet that's due to one less generation with OTA locals vs. cable locals. They need to capture the local OTA & pump through the cable while I can get OTA 1st generation. Not sure if that is a correct assumption, but it sounds right to me. Networks like ESPN come via Sat. same generation as cable so that might account for those looking pretty much the same as their Sattelite counterparts.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *He has Adelphia in Cleveland. I didn't watch last night so it's hard to comment, but last year didn't look all that hot from what I can recall.*



Oh, I'm sorry, I thought he was in another city.


The PQ of last night's Grammies was pretty good for me, if they weren't doing the strobing thing...then it went to hell pretty quickly. Like you, OTA looked a bit sharper. I don't know if they do any compression of the local HD channels on the Adelphia end or not. I do know they've been squeezing a lot of 'em in there, I just don't know how much capacity they have for the existing channels or future ones (ESPN2HD, due in a couple of weeks or so, or UniversalHD, etc.).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *WJW is the best because it is HD and they do a great job of going from HD to SD. I just hate their newscast.
> 
> 
> Despite Inundated opinion, I really like WOIO because of their in your face attitude.*



If I want "in your face attitude", I'll watch professional wrestling.







(Sorry, I have a beef or two or 10 about "19 Action News"...)


WJW's "A block" is usually very good, actually. That's the first part of the show, from the opening to the top story, to other "real" news. The newscast falls apart dramatically after that. Way too much happy talk and games and chuckles. They still have some of the best reporters in the market, but I can't endure watching after the opening news segment.


I usually end up watching just the A block (first 5-10 minutes) of FOX 8, then going somewhere else...if I'm in a news mood, usually to WKYC...if I'm in a mood for comedy, possibly to WOIO







I've seen comedians less animated than Jeff Tanchak, for one, and feature reporter/weather fill-in Charlie Minn does his best to actually ACT like a clown.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *
> 
> ABC surprisingly always looks real good to me. I like the look of LOST and Boston Legal. CBS may have the best but I can't really say until I look at their shows later this week.*



I only watch one show on ABC, but that show looks exceptional in HD. It's Desperate Housewives - it's about the only show on all of television that my wife is willing to watch, so we watch it together. She doesn't like TV much. Interestingly, I saw a mention that Desperate Housewifes had better ratings than the Grammy show last night, so I guess she's in good company with that one.


CBS has some shows that look pretty good - all those cop shows.


I don't think I've watched anything on NBC since the Olympics. They just don't seem to be able to produce anything that has any draw for me whatsoever.


I probably watch more stuff on HDNet than all the other networks put together - The Handler, The Agency, Smallville (my kids really like that one), and all those music shows - Rodney Crowell was just great last night, so was Allison Krauss yesterday at midday.


I'd watch Enterprise in HD if Adelphia would just pick it up.


As for news, I just can't imagine watching any of those pseudo-news shows on television. I get all my news from the various internet feeds (AP, Reuters, etc.) and from NPR. It'll take a lot more than HD to fix the many things that are wrong with TV news.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *If I want "in your face attitude", I'll watch professional wrestling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry, I have a beef or two or 10 about "19 Action News"...)
> 
> 
> WJW's "A block" is usually very good, actually. That's the first part of the show, from the opening to the top story, to other "real" news. The newscast falls apart dramatically after that. Way too much happy talk and games and chuckles. They still have some of the best reporters in the market, but I can't endure watching after the opening news segment.
> 
> 
> I usually end up watching just the A block (first 5-10 minutes) of FOX 8, then going somewhere else...if I'm in a news mood, usually to WKYC...if I'm in a mood for comedy, possibly to WOIO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen comedians less animated than Jeff Tanchak, for one, and feature reporter/weather fill-in Charlie Minn does his best to actually ACT like a clown.*



Yeah, I agree about Minn and Tanchak. I don't like Tanchak, reminds me of an ex high school jock. Actually he kind of reminds me of that guy in "Back To The Future", you know the bully dude.


But, I like the way WOIO gets into peoples faces. Still I only watch it part of the time, I actually look at all of the stations I, pick one for the day and stay with it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I'd watch Enterprise in HD if Adelphia would just pick it up.*



Even if Adelphia does pick up WUAB - and I don't see anything but bandwidth considerations or lack of interest by them in the way, since they've got WOIO now - I believe Enterprise is history, no? I don't know if it's still on the air through May or so (end of season).


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, Enterprise is done in May.


I watched some CBS sitcom tonight (through Adelphia) and was much more satisfied with the picture than the grammies. There was still some pixelation early on, and some freezing here and there, but it was satisfactory.


----------



## handsworth

Just got another lead. I found out that WOIO will be broadcasting 39 of 64 games in HD during March Madness. Not so many during the first round , but I think the regionals and on will all be HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Even if Adelphia does pick up WUAB - and I don't see anything but bandwidth considerations or lack of interest by them in the way, since they've got WOIO now - I believe Enterprise is history, no? I don't know if it's still on the air through May or so (end of season).*



I'm not sure of when the final episode of Enterprise will be but it is this year. That's another show that comes in with great sound despite no Dolby 5.1.


----------



## mosborne

I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Even if Adelphia does pick up WUAB - and I don't see anything but bandwidth considerations or lack of interest by them in the way, since they've got WOIO now - I believe Enterprise is history, no? I don't know if it's still on the air through May or so (end of season).*



I hadn't heard that. That's too bad - it was a pretty good show. It's both the only show on UPN in HD, and also the only show on WUAB that I'd actually watch. In that case, I guess I don't care whether or not Adelphia picks it up.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mosborne_
> *I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....*



Hmm, you shouldn't have any problems getting them from there. The variable with WOIO is that their digital channel is on 10, a high-VHF channel...though even a UHF antenna should get it for you.


Just for kicks and grins, try attaching a pair of rabbit ears to your Samsung and try hitting up DT 10 (WOIO-DT) all by itself. That'd cost you nothing, and eliminate one possible problem if it works for you. Then again, if you get 3...which is a *low*-VHF channel, I don't see why you're not getting WOIO.


One other guess...check the HDTV Hardware section here for any threads on your box. I know some of the Samsungs, especially earlier models, can be problematic, and this might be a PSIP issue. Check THAT thread (PSIP) at the top of this Local HDTV Reception area for more information on that. It might be a problem with your box interpreting recent changes in the electronic codes digital TV stations send into the signal.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *I hadn't heard that. That's too bad - it was a pretty good show. It's both the only show on UPN in HD, and also the only show on WUAB that I'd actually watch. In that case, I guess I don't care whether or not Adelphia picks it up.*



As Hookbill mentioned, I believe Enterprise goes away at the end of this season. As far as UPN HD is concerned, they have about a half-dozen HD shows starting this season, though I don't know if any of 'em would be of interest to you.


----------



## kpollari




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mosborne_
> *I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....*



I have a Samsung 350 and I had a lot of trouble getting 19. I was using a SquareShooter 1000 running through an amplified Terk DirecTV multiswitch. In this setup I was never able to get 19 or 25. I finally took the amplifier out of the run and am able to get 8, 19, 25, 43 and 61. Also, briefly picked up 17 which I don't care about. In this setup, channel 3 barely comes in and 5 doesn't at all. So, basically I lost 3 and 5 to gain 19 and 25.


To resolve my problems, I had to move the HD receiver to the attic and try various positions of the antenna and cabling combinations. I would never have gotten 19 without being able to see a TV and be able to move the antenna at the same time.


I'm now thinking about adding an amplifier near the TV to try to pick 3 and 5.


Kermit

Ohio City


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *
> 
> I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.*



There is a very good reason why a station would choose to keep a VHF channel: Cost of operation. I had a phone conversation with one of the engineers at WJW shortly after they began broadcasting on their new channel. His tone of voice reminded me of the expression "squeal like a pig" when he was complaining about how much higher their electric bill was for the new digital channel. As he explained it, as the channel number you transmit on gets higher the amount of power needed to cover the same geographic area also progressively increases. He said their electric bill way more than doubled. He told me back then that they were definitely going back to channel 8 when the analog gets shut off. Also he said that the marketing dept. liked that because they don't lose any "Fox 8" logo recognition. So given that, it must be significant savings if WOIO is choosing to stay with channel 10. Makes you wonder what they will change "19 Action News" to after the change over.

Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Makes you wonder what they will change "19 Action News" to after the change over.
> 
> Steve*



10 Action News?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *
> 
> 
> Can you guys please veryify for him again that FOX is the only channel doing their local news in HDTV & that CBS is still arguably the leader in HD.*



I think a lot of the personal evaluation of broadcaster picture quality is mostly dependent on the person's display capability. It's tough to compare apples to apples. If someone has a display that can only do 1080i, how can you say that CBS shows(1080i) are better than ABC's(720p) or Fox(720p) when you are not displaying the 720p broadcasts natively. Don't forget that the set top box must "downgrade" the higher scan rate of 720p to something that can be displayed on the lower capability 1080i display unit. Different STBs vary widely in quality in performing this task. Conversely, even if you have one of the new 720p digital projectors that can display every pixel in a 720p broadcast, the set top box will obviously have to "throw away" some of the 1080 lines of resolution on a 1080i broadcast to display it. So unless you have a display unit that can display both formats natively(CRT projector with 9" guns, etc.) I think the best statement anyone can make is that a certain broadcast looks better on THEIR set and then they should list what THEIR equipment(STB, display unit, signal source) is for comparison purposes. From what I have read, the people that do have the high powered display units have said it is a tough call based on many factors and neither format(or broadcaster) is the clear winner in all cases.

Steve


----------



## mosborne




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by mosborne_
> *I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....*



Ok..thanks for the ideas...I will post any follow up info I am able to uncover and Thanks for the Help...........


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *
> 
> Also NBC had the absolute worst picture I have ever seen on Medical Emergency on last Friday night. I don't know quite how to describe it except it had an orange line through the majority of the show and you could see panels on the screen. Occasionally there were even ghosts which as far as I knew were not suppose to happen in HD.
> 
> *



Glad someone else saw that! I though my STB had gone south and started cursing and rebooting before I thought to myself, "Hey, maybe you should check another program!" LOL


----------



## Inundated

It's been bothering me for a while, and I think I figured it out.


Remember when Adelphia put up the digital SD versions of the local network affiliates on the 8xx channels? I'm not alone, from what I remember here, in noticing that the NON-DIGITAL versions of those channels (the original cable channels 3, 4, 5, etc.) look a lot better than those in the 800 series. And I mean a LOT better.


I think I've figured out why.


Cable systems are testing this all over the country. The goal, eventually, is to substitute the digital feeds for all the analog channels, so when you're watching the traditionally analog cable channels (the OTA networks, etc.), it will be fed like the channels on 100-plus are. There's a technical term for it, something like "digital substitution". Doing so not only theoretically improves picture quality, but when cable systems are finally able to dump analog feeds down the road, it gives them that much more (and then some) bandwidth for digital channels.


I think I figured this out when I noticed that tuning the box to 803, etc., you didn't get that digital "pause" while the channel was being decoded. It comes up instantly...which is not usual.


It appears the actual digital feeds (SD) ARE on the lower channels, 3, 4, etc., and 803/805/808 etc. only exist to hold the analog channels in the system for someone with a box. In other words, the box does that substitution. Those tuning in without a box would see the analog channels on 3, 4, etc. (whichever ones are duplicated on 80x).


That HAS to be what they're doing. HAS to be. The PQ is just too much better on the lower 3/4/etc. channels, and the 80x channels look as bad as the analog versions used to look. And eventually, when they do this for all analog channels, they will likely "reseed" the digital feed down into the old analog numbers...i.e. ESPN would continue to be 28, digitally substituted, instead of 828.


This is actually kind of off-topic, since I'm talking the SD digital channels here and not the HD channels, but we've talked about it here before...


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *It's been bothering me for a while, and I think I figured it out.
> 
> 
> Remember when Adelphia put up the digital SD versions of the local network affiliates on the 8xx channels? I'm not alone, from what I remember here, in noticing that the NON-DIGITAL versions of those channels (the original cable channels 3, 4, 5, etc.) look a lot better than those in the 800 series. And I mean a LOT better.
> 
> 
> I think I've figured out why.
> 
> 
> Cable systems are testing this all over the country. The goal, eventually, is to substitute the digital feeds for all the analog channels, so when you're watching the traditionally analog cable channels (the OTA networks, etc.), it will be fed like the channels on 100-plus are. There's a technical term for it, something like "digital substitution". Doing so not only theoretically improves picture quality, but when cable systems are finally able to dump analog feeds down the road, it gives them that much more (and then some) bandwidth for digital channels.
> 
> 
> I think I figured this out when I noticed that tuning the box to 803, etc., you didn't get that digital "pause" while the channel was being decoded. It comes up instantly...which is not usual.
> 
> 
> It appears the actual digital feeds (SD) ARE on the lower channels, 3, 4, etc., and 803/805/808 etc. only exist to hold the analog channels in the system for someone with a box. In other words, the box does that substitution. Those tuning in without a box would see the analog channels on 3, 4, etc. (whichever ones are duplicated on 80x).
> 
> 
> That HAS to be what they're doing. HAS to be. The PQ is just too much better on the lower 3/4/etc. channels, and the 80x channels look as bad as the analog versions used to look. And eventually, when they do this for all analog channels, they will likely "reseed" the digital feed down into the old analog numbers...i.e. ESPN would continue to be 28, digitally substituted, instead of 828.
> 
> 
> This is actually kind of off-topic, since I'm talking the SD digital channels here and not the HD channels, but we've talked about it here before...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Thanks Inundated!! I thought I was going crazy, but I was certain when that message came up on the Adelphia message channel, it said that the ANALOG versions would now appear in the 800's & the digital versions would be 3, 5, 8, & 10. When I mentioned that the other day here, people said it was the reverse, but that made no sense to me since it's obvious that the lower tiered versions looked a considerably better, plus I was so sure the message confirmed what I thought. I had also recalled reading somewhere about a 'switching' type system where the digital box would get the digital channels on the lower tier, yet basic cable people would still get the analog on 3, 5, 8, 10.


Not that it really matters anyway since I watch those mostly in the HD tier anyway, but it certainly clears things up if that is indeed the case.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Thanks Inundated!! I thought I was going crazy, but I was certain when that message came up on the Adelphia message channel, it said that the ANALOG versions would now appear in the 800's & the digital versions would be 3, 5, 8, & 10. When I mentioned that the other day here, people said it was the reverse, but that made no sense to me since it's obvious that the lower tiered versions looked a considerably better, plus I was so sure the message confirmed what I thought. I had also recalled reading somewhere about a 'switching' type system where the digital box would get the digital channels on the lower tier, yet basic cable people would still get the analog on 3, 5, 8, 10.
> 
> 
> Not that it really matters anyway since I watch those mostly in the HD tier anyway, but it certainly clears things up if that is indeed the case.*



Well, your right and your wrong. I'll explain.


First your right. I will confirm that yes indeed the analog stations are now on the 800's. How do I know? All digital stations we receive when they come through my home theater receiver get a "dolby digital" signal. That was why I had a problem with the 800's becasue I was not getting that signal. When I contacted Adelphia about this they told me that the 800's were digital and if I didn't think so try getting them without the box. Their original message said digital signals would be sent on the 800's. Now if they put another message up since then, I'm not aware of it.


Anyway, on these specified channels (in my area 3,4,5,8, and 7) I now get the "dolby digital" reading on my home theater. So the HAVE to be digital for me to get that.


PQ is clearly better as well. I submit that this change happened after the original message went out, because when I did comparisons there was no way in hell that the picture on the lower channels looked any better (or worst for that matter) then the one in the 800's.


Only Adelphia would have the capability of causing this kind of confusion.


Anyway, the only thing that I record that isn't HD now is on UPN channel 7 Star Trek and I have switched that in my recording list from 807 to channel 7.


----------



## Dweezilz

OK. Then the message I saw must have been a 2nd message when they made the switch so that the lower tier were the digital versions. This is why I was confused when you replied to my post the other day. I'm still fairly certain that it said analog would be moved to 800's. That's the only time I noticed they even did it & it was clear the lower tier locals looked much better. The rep at Adelphia probably was just saying that it was in their digital tier & to get it, you'd need a box. That part was correct. Now maybe at first, like you said, those channels were the digital versions, but at the time I noticed it, I checked PQ comparisons that day, & the lower tier looked far better & were obviously the digital versions.


That makes me right...and right! ha!! Just kidding, I'm still as confused as ever!


----------



## jtscherne

I thought the digitals were in the lower numbers too, but for a different reason. If I had my one TV on that didn't go through a box, and tuned one of my digital TVs to the same channel in the lower numbers, there was a definite sync difference, where if I tuned in the 800s, there was no delay.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *I thought the digitals were in the lower numbers too, but for a different reason. If I had my one TV on that didn't go through a box, and tuned one of my digital TVs to the same channel in the lower numbers, there was a definite sync difference, where if I tuned in the 800s, there was no delay.*



I have the most recent version of the TiVo box software...7.1, the one that enables TiVoToGo. (I still have the 8000HD in the living room, of course.)


There's apparently a bug. When you try changing analog channels on a digital cable box, TiVo has trouble "catching up" with the analog channels and displays them, for the first few seconds after the channel change (spitting out the IR to the box) in pixellated form. It only lasts a couple of seconds or so.


This "pixellation bug", as they call it on TiVo Community Forum, shows up on channels like 9 (WEAO) and 10 (WVPX), which don't have 800-series equivalents and are most assuredly in analog. The bug does NOT show up on WKYC/3, WEWS/5, WJW/8, WOIO/19 or WUAB/43 (the old analog 3/5/8/4/6 Adelphia channels). It DOES show up on 803, 804, 805, 806 and 808. Problem solved. I'm not entirely sure if they're doing this on WBNX/55, as there is no 807. (Hookbill - UPN 43/WUAB is 6/806...) I assume they are doing the digital versions only on channels that feed them direct via fiber optic or whatever, as creating a "digital" version of a channel coming via analog wouldn't make much sense.


Again, it's the fact that when all the digital subbing is done, they'll keep the traditional numbers. The box does all the remapping, and changes the original 803 to 3, etc., leaving the old analog version up at 803. That's what appears to be happening.


(I didn't see the second message about the lower ones being in digital, by the way.)


BTW, WOIO looks 100% better on 4 vs. 804, but they still need to turn the contrast down.


----------



## hookbill

Here's even more proof for your theroy, Inundated. Plain and simple proof. On my 8300 box, as some of you are aware, it shows what type of signal is being received. Now when I go to 704, I get a HD light and 1080i lights up. 804, just 480i lights up. On Channel 4 (this is WOIO in my area) the HD light goes off but 1080i lights up.


I notice a contrast problem on WOIO, by the way on channel 4.


And, because my set recognizes the 1080i signal I cannot change my settings on the set to anything other then "fULL", just like on 704.


I can change the aspect ration on the box of course.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I notice a contrast problem on WOIO, by the way on channel 4.*



If you look close, you'll notice it on 804, too, just with a bit more analog snow joining it.







And heck, I notice it on 704 when watching locally originated SD content (news, mostly).


Basically, their cameras/graphics/etc. stink, no matter what resolution you watch in.


----------



## hookbill

I have to ammend my previous post. Apparently the signal changes from 480i to 1080i AFTER you change the screen ration on the digital stations.


However, there is no disputing that the lower channels are the digital ones, the dolby digital signal does not lie.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I have to ammend my previous post. Apparently the signal changes from 480i to 1080i AFTER you change the screen ration on the digital stations.
> 
> 
> However, there is no disputing that the lower channels are the digital ones, the dolby digital signal does not lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Explain what you mean? when I'm on the digital locals my box says 480i. The only way it'll say 1080i is if I go into the setup & set the screen to 1080i. Is that what you are talking about? I have mine on passthrough so that when I'm on HD it's 1080i & locals switch to 480i.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Explain what you mean? when I'm on the digital locals my box says 480i. The only way it'll say 1080i is if I go into the setup & set the screen to 1080i. Is that what you are talking about? I have mine on passthrough so that when I'm on HD it's 1080i & locals switch to 480i.*



OK. When your on the lower channels and your 8300's aspect ratio is set to normal you will see a 480i. Now change your screen aspect ratio to zoom and notice that the 8300 will change from 480i to either 1080i or 720p. Why this happens, I haven't a clue.


Now when it does that change my HDTV screen automatically goes to full screen mode. I cannot change it tow widescreen or zoom or normal because the set believes it is getting a 1080i or 720p signal. I don't use passthru but I use the equivalent HDMI/DVI. Does the same thing.


Try it for yourself and see what happens. Put your set on channel 3,5,7,8,10 and then change the aspect ratios and whatch how the box reports the signal.

Also notice that the HD light does not light up in any of these cases

Let me know how it works for ya.


----------



## Dweezilz

I know why this happens & it's working perfectly as expected actually. The box is not capable of zooming @ 480i. When it's at 480i, hit the * button & you'll find it won't zoom or format in the 480i mode. The ONLY way it can do so, is by also switching it's output to 1080i or 720p (zoom is only available at 1080i or 720p). Once that happens, your TV locks in at full, thus only the box can format. The reason the HD light doesn't light up, is because it's NOT a 1080i signal. The box is upconverting to 1080i. When you watch the regular HD channels, the box doesn't have to upconvert a non-HD signal to HD, thus the HD light comes on. Keep in mind, the box doesn't care what the station is actually sending within it's 1080i signal. Could be SD or HD but if the box gets 1080i or 720p, that's when the HD light goes on. All this makes sense when you think about it. A non-HD cable box doesn't zoom or stretch it's picture at all. For that you rely on your TV. This box is no different except that it allows you to zoom, but as any other HD-STB, it does so in 1080i mode. (or 720p).


That is way this is happening.


----------



## galevin




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *OK. Then the message I saw must have been a 2nd message when they made the switch so that the lower tier were the digital versions. This is why I was confused when you replied to my post the other day. I'm still fairly certain that it said analog would be moved to 800's. That's the only time I noticed they even did it & it was clear the lower tier locals looked much better. The rep at Adelphia probably was just saying that it was in their digital tier & to get it, you'd need a box. That part was correct. Now maybe at first, like you said, those channels were the digital versions, but at the time I noticed it, I checked PQ comparisons that day, & the lower tier looked far better & were obviously the digital versions.
> 
> 
> That makes me right...and right! ha!! Just kidding, I'm still as confused as ever!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You guys are absolutely right about the locals now being in analog in the 800-series for those with digital boxes. The regular channels are now digital. I recall seeing the message from Adelphia very clearly, and that is exactly what they said was happenning. (I only say one message, so I can't say if there was another, but I'm sure of what I saw.) My subjective testing backs this up. (In fact, I posted to the group on 1-12-05 confirming this. I didn't get much response at the time, but since people seem to be paying attention to this now, I thought I'd re-confirm this.)


----------



## RexEctor

Haven't been around in a long time.

Adelphia SA8000 here in Ashtabula.

I was FLOORED when I did the reboot thing and channel 19 was there.

You guys are amazing!


Anyway, I was at HH Gregg in Mentor the other day. Talked to a salesman there who claims that Adelphia has been bought by Comcast. I think he's full of it but I thought I'd post it here. Is this a scoop or just poop?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RexEctor_
> *Anyway, I was at HH Gregg in Mentor the other day. Talked to a salesman there who claims that Adelphia has been bought by Comcast. I think he's full of it but I thought I'd post it here. Is this a scoop or just poop?*



If it has been, he is the only person in America who knows it.










Time Warner and Comcast have entered a joint bid to buy the Adelphia systems. Comcast is reportedly interested in markets like Los Angeles, where it already owns a lot of systems.


Northeast Ohio could very well go to Time Warner, as the Adelphia systems here would give them a huge boost combined with their Akron/Canton/Youngstown/Mansfield systems. I don't think Comcast here would be interested, as they don't a big system in Cleveland.


As of yet, Adelphia or its systems have not been sold.


----------



## RexEctor




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *If it has been, he is the only person in America who knows it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .......
> 
> As of yet, Adelphia or its systems have not been sold.*



Thanks inundated. That's what I thought.


----------



## Inundated

Here's the latest CNN/Money story on it:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/04/news...rner/index.htm 



> Quote:
> Citing a confidentiality agreement, Parsons did not provide new details about the joint bid Time Warner and Comcast submitted Monday for the assets of bankrupt Adelphia Communications, the country's No. 5 cable operator. Comcast and Time Warner are the country's No. 1 and No. 2 cable companies, respectively.
> 
> 
> Some analysts have expressed concern about Time Warner's play for Adelphia. Reuters reported this week that the Time Warner-Comcast bid was around $17 billion, with Time Warner contributing more than 75 percent of it. Skeptical analysts, however, are worried about the future of the cable business, which is facing stiff competition from satellite operators, and Adelphia's eroding subscriber base.
> 
> 
> Time Warner shares have slipped nearly 5 percent in the last month, after rising 20 percent in the last quarter of 2004. The stock hit a 52-week high in mid-December.
> 
> 
> Parsons, however, said Friday that he thinks the cable business looks promising. "We believe we should grow our footprint if we can and we think there is an opportunity to do that" by acquiring Adelphia, he said.
> 
> 
> Time Warner's play for Adelphia is far from a done deal. Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. and Providence Equity Partners have also submitted an offer. There's also the possibility that Adelphia will continue as a stand-alone business once it emerges from bankruptcy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RexEctor_
> *Haven't been around in a long time.
> 
> Adelphia SA8000 here in Ashtabula.
> 
> I was FLOORED when I did the reboot thing and channel 19 was there.
> 
> You guys are amazing!
> *



Well, it's true we are amazing.







But what's even more amazing is your post. So people are still not getting WOIO HD until they reboot because they don't know it's there?


Geeze.....what a comapany. No wonder they are going down in flames!


----------



## RexEctor

I see Adelphia continuing after they reorganize.

Does Adelphia compete with TW and Comcast in the urban areas?

I know out here in the stix they have no competition except for DBS. Maybe, in the long run, cable will go the way of the utility companies and we'll have a choice of who we want as our provider just like we do with 1st Energy etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by RexEctor_
> *I see Adelphia continuing after they reorganize.
> 
> Does Adelphia compete with TW and Comcast in the urban areas?
> 
> I know out here in the stix they have no competition except for DBS. Maybe, in the long run, cable will go the way of the utility companies and we'll have a choice of who we want as our provider just like we do with 1st Energy etc.*



Except we pay higher utility bills in Ohio then anywhere else in the country. Deregulation was horrible.


Anyway, cable has alreayd been deregulated. I think in some areas there is competition but for the most part everyone has their territory.


I think that will change as soon as hell freezes over.


----------



## Inundated

I still think TWC ends up with the Cleveland Adelphia system when it's all said and done.


I wonder if WOIO is aware that you apparently (for most) have to reboot to get WOIO-HD on Adelphia?


Well, for most...as I didn't.


----------



## hookbill

I just sent a message to my contact at Adelphia about this. I suggested they reboot all the machines.


We'll see if anyone takes notice.


----------



## hookbill

As I informed everyone yesterday, I sent an email to my contact at Adelphia about people still not getting WOIO HD until a reboot is done. The response back was that it is on the programing guide and if people are not getting it they should call in.










I suggested a reboot but she said engineers said too many problems caused by doing that. Inundated, I know you don't want to but why not call your buddies at WOIO and tell them what's going on?


I did my part.


----------



## Inundated

i'm not sure how you got the idea I know anyone at WOIO.










In fact, for all the comments I've made about them, I'd probably be thrown out of the building!










But I've thought about dropping them an E-Mail and noting this problem to them.


----------



## SteveC

Does anyone have a phone number for WUAB? It looks like they are planning to broadcast their own programming tonight instead of the regular UPN feed. Titantv shows the same thing(Friends) on both the analog and digital channels. I don't see why they couldn't just show their programming on the analog channel and show the HD UPN feed on the digital channel. That gives everyone a choice. I'd like to just call them and see if they would go for it. They probably won't but it can't hurt to try.

Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Does anyone have a phone number for WUAB? It looks like they are planning to broadcast their own programming tonight instead of the regular UPN feed. Titantv shows the same thing(Friends) on both the analog and digital channels. I don't see why they couldn't just show their programming on the analog channel and show the HD UPN feed on the digital channel. That gives everyone a choice. I'd like to just call them and see if they would go for it. They probably won't but it can't hurt to try.
> 
> Steve*



Steve, I don't know what's up with Titan TV, but according to ZAP2IT and Adelphia's guide Star Trek:Enterprise is on at 8:00 pm.


I took a look at Titan and I saw the same thing you did, but I have a lot of faith in ZAP2IT.COM. I have no faith in Adelphia. Still 2 out of 3 say Star Trek tonight.


----------



## intermod

WOIO, analog 19, D-10, CBS

general 877-929-1943

Harry Wilkens, chief engineer, 216-367-7450

Jim Kopanski **engineer, good guy 216-367-7455

Bryan Anderson, programming 216-367-7114


----------



## SteveC

Intermod,

Thanks for the phone numbers. Hookbill, looks like zap2it was right. The regular UPN schedule is on. Looks like I better start using zap2it. Thanks for the response.

Steve


----------



## Bizily

Is anyone receiving WVIZDT? According to their website, they've been broadcasting since August. I receive all the other OTAs (WKYCDT, WEWSDT, WOIODT, WUABDT, WJWDT), but can't seem to bring in WVIZDT.


-Jim


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bizily_
> *Is anyone receiving WVIZDT? According to their website, they've been broadcasting since August. I receive all the other OTAs (WKYCDT, WEWSDT, WOIODT, WUABDT, WJWDT), but can't seem to bring in WVIZDT.
> 
> 
> -Jim*



They are opporating at a ultra low power & 'temporary' antenna. The vast majority of the area can't get it in so your situation is not unusual. I think the only people that can pull it in are the people with the camper sitting on that gravel road leading to that small hut under the antenna! ha!










They are planning on improving that situation at some point soon.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Bizily_
> *Is anyone receiving WVIZDT? According to their website, they've been broadcasting since August. I receive all the other OTAs (WKYCDT, WEWSDT, WOIODT, WUABDT, WJWDT), but can't seem to bring in WVIZDT.
> 
> 
> -Jim*




Yes! They have been on since last summer, They are transmitting from the brookpark rd. studio with I think 1kw from a 100 ft, tower. You can see the antenna from I480 near the state rd. ramp. I guess they plan to move it out to the North Royalton site this summer. They carry the same PBS stuff as 45/49 so you may have a better shot at the 50-1. Excellent pix and sound as one would expect from PBS.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...27#post4227927


----------



## davidshay

I know others on the board have reported success with Adelphia and a QAM tuner. I have a PC board (pcHDTV) that I have now configured to receive QAM. I get the basic channels over QAM (WKYC,WUAB,WEWS,WJW,WOIO and BARK) but none of them appear to be in hi-def, even for shows which are supposed to be. For instance, tonight on NBC law and order was supposed to be in HDTV, but I only got a resolution of 704x480, roughly 480p. I have not seen anything at a higher resolution. I know the card works since OTA I can get 1 channel on a good day at 1920x1080.


Also, I'm not sure entirely how the frequencies are working, but thy are showing up as:


51-3 WKYC

51-4 WOIO

51-5 WEWS

51-6 WUAB

51-8 WJW


Are these all lumped into one big channel with all the SDTV feeds for the regular cable boxes?


I have not officially signed up with Adelphia for hi-def anything. Do I need to? Can you do that without getting a set-top box which I don't want and can't use?


Can the other individual who got Adelphia QAM working please respond with what QAM frequencies you are getting these channels on?


Thanks.


----------



## rljjr

On my Mitsubishi, the QAM tuner has the channels as follows:

WKYC-DT 105-3

WEWS-DT 105-5

WJW-DT 105-8

WVIZ-DT 113-1

WOIO-DT 113-2

I have broadcast basic cable only, and have no set-top box. These channels appeared without me doing anything as far as signing up. And my bill is still under $10 per month. I have not scanned in a few days, but have not seen WUAB-DT yet.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rljjr_
> *On my Mitsubishi, the QAM tuner has the channels as follows:
> 
> WKYC-DT 105-3
> 
> WEWS-DT 105-5
> 
> WJW-DT 105-8
> 
> WVIZ-DT 113-1
> 
> WOIO-DT 113-2
> 
> I have broadcast basic cable only, and have no set-top box. These channels appeared without me doing anything as far as signing up. And my bill is still under $10 per month. I have not scanned in a few days, but have not seen WUAB-DT yet.*



Also just to note, Adelphia doesn't charge anything for the local HD channels. Even without getting the HD package, you'll receive the local HD's.


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia doesn't offer WUAB-DT yet, so I'm sure you won't be able to get it through QAM.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Adelphia doesn't offer WUAB-DT yet, so I'm sure you won't be able to get it through QAM.*



Perhaps, but it does make sense to watch for it. Adelphia just signed on with sister statsion WOIO, so it would make sense to expect WUAB to be next in line. And it would also make sense for it to show up on QAM even before Adelphia officially makes it available, just as WOIO did. Maybe one day they'll just drop it in at 113-3.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Perhaps, but it does make sense to watch for it. Adelphia just signed on with sister statsion WOIO, so it would make sense to expect WUAB to be next in line. And it would also make sense for it to show up on QAM even before Adelphia officially makes it available, just as WOIO did. Maybe one day they'll just drop it in at 113-3.*



Well, whatever they do it will probably be hush hush until they actually do it. handsworth usually has a heads up on these things but he hasn't mentioned anything about WUAB as of yet.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by davidshay_
> *I know others on the board have reported success with Adelphia and a QAM tuner. I have a PC board (pcHDTV) that I have now configured to receive QAM. I get the basic channels over QAM (WKYC,WUAB,WEWS,WJW,WOIO and BARK) but none of them appear to be in hi-def, even for shows which are supposed to be. For instance, tonight on NBC law and order was supposed to be in HDTV, but I only got a resolution of 704x480, roughly 480p. I have not seen anything at a higher resolution. I know the card works since OTA I can get 1 channel on a good day at 1920x1080.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm not sure entirely how the frequencies are working, but thy are showing up as:
> 
> 
> 51-3 WKYC
> 
> 51-4 WOIO
> 
> 51-5 WEWS
> 
> 51-6 WUAB
> 
> 51-8 WJW
> 
> 
> Are these all lumped into one big channel with all the SDTV feeds for the regular cable boxes?
> 
> 
> I have not officially signed up with Adelphia for hi-def anything. Do I need to? Can you do that without getting a set-top box which I don't want and can't use?
> 
> 
> Can the other individual who got Adelphia QAM working please respond with what QAM frequencies you are getting these channels on?
> 
> 
> Thanks.*



I have an LG box that I can set for OTA or QAM. I scanned the cable this afternoon and found the following channels:


105-3 WKYC HD

105-5 WEWS HD

105-8 WJW HD

113-1 WVIZ HD

113-2 WOIO HD


There were intermittent dropouts on 113-1, and two thirds of the screen would occasionally turn green on 113-2.


There was a race on FOX, and on channels 102-1 through 102-7 there were seven alternate camera angles from within different cars. Also, 84-11 through 84-14 had several different basketball games, all with the ABC logo in the corner.


I also found music only stations on 93-21 through 93-45, and some PPV movies in progress on 104-1 through 104-8.


I tend to get better picture quality OTA, so I don't check the cable very often. A couple weeks ago it looked like they had taken the analog feed of all the local stations, converted it to digital, and sent them out on another channel. I did not see this when I scanned today, but it is probably what you found.


----------



## flatiron

It used to be 19 you could count on to screw up HD, but now days it seems to be 5 not flipping the switch or otherwise messing up the HD feed.


First half of Desperate Housewives tonight in lovely SD stretch-o-vision. This is at least the 4th ep of DH (plus a couple eps of Lost) they've messed up the HD feed for at least half the episode in the last 2-3 months. Surprising they would have so many problems with their highest-rated shows.










Maybe it's time to "move" to an ABC O&O market


----------



## Inundated

WEWS has had switch flipping problems before. Remember the Automatic Switch to SD at Midnight for Monday Night Football, anyone? They did this at least two weeks that I saw. There must be a timer somewhere...that they don't have set correctly!


----------



## Jim Gilliland

So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?


----------



## galevin




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?*



It was fine through Adelphia in Shaker Heights.


Las Vegas was ib stetch-o-vision for at least part of the show. They may have fixed it at some point, but I had turned to CSI.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?*



Oh no. Not again. Haven't seen it yet but I did record it.


My wife is getting more and more upset about these kind of things happening. I'm afraid she's going to start pushing to just watching these shows on digital only.


----------



## gass

CSI was good-to-go OTA, way down here in South Portage Co. In fact most of the winter CBS OTA has been great. Did they fix something?


----------



## davidshay




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Chris Isble_
> *I have an LG box that I can set for OTA or QAM. I scanned the cable this afternoon and found the following channels:
> 
> 
> 105-3 WKYC HD
> 
> 105-5 WEWS HD
> 
> 105-8 WJW HD
> 
> 113-1 WVIZ HD
> 
> 113-2 WOIO HD
> 
> 
> There were intermittent dropouts on 113-1, and two thirds of the screen would occasionally turn green on 113-2.
> *



Do you happened to know the exact frequency for, say, 105-3 ?


----------



## Jim Gilliland

It would make sense that if you're going to have problems on one of the 113 subchannels, you'd have the same problem on all of the 113 subchannels. It's a single data stream carrying multiple channels. I didn't check the PBS station when I was having all those problems with CBS, but there's a good chance that the same phenomenon was occurring.


----------



## Reesh

Hey guys, nice forum. I'm a very fresh noobie to HDTV and recently purchased a MyHD MDP-130 HD Tuner for my PC. In case you guys don't know, this tuner is a QAM tuner as well as an OTA tuner. I currently reside in Shaker Heights and am currently subscribed to adelphia's DTV package. I was wondering what channels I would be able to get through the QAM tuner (I'm assuming all the local channels)? Also is it worth it for me to buy an OTA antenna as well?


As far as the OTA antenna choices, I've read a lot about the Silver Sensor as well as the Radio Shack 15-1880. I have to go with an indoor antenna as I live in an apartment. Any recommendations on either of these antennas? Would it be better to get a Silver Sensor and buy an amplifier with it instead of the Radio Shack one? I've noticed a couple of Shaker Heights members, so I would love to hear what you guys use for OTA reception. Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Reesh_
> *Hey guys, nice forum. I'm a very fresh noobie to HDTV and recently purchased a MyHD MDP-130 HD Tuner for my PC. In case you guys don't know, this tuner is a QAM tuner as well as an OTA tuner. I currently reside in Shaker Heights and am currently subscribed to adelphia's DTV package. I was wondering what channels I would be able to get through the QAM tuner (I'm assuming all the local channels)? Also is it worth it for me to buy an OTA antenna as well?
> 
> 
> As far as the OTA antenna choices, I've read a lot about the Silver Sensor as well as the Radio Shack 15-1880. I have to go with an indoor antenna as I live in an apartment. Any recommendations on either of these antennas? Would it be better to get a Silver Sensor and buy an amplifier with it instead of the Radio Shack one? I've noticed a couple of Shaker Heights members, so I would love to hear what you guys use for OTA reception. Thanks in advance for the help.*



Welcome!!


I've always found that the OTA is just a bit more crisp than Adelphia's locals. Not sure if it's a bit rate issue with Adelphia or what, but the OTA definately seems to have a bit more shadow detail & lighting detail. The other HD channels on Adelphia vs. Dish Network look about the same. Of course it also depends on how good your TV is as to how much difference you'll see. Adelphia's local HD's are fine, just not quite as good.


As for the antenna, I have both a Silver Sensor & the Radio Shack copper double bow-tie antenna. I've found the Radio Shack to be a bit better than the SS. Neither were great for getting NBC in, but all others came in with the Radio Shack. Not sure if it's the model you are speaking of, but the classic one was a copper colored double bowtie.


----------



## Reesh

Hey, thanks for the reply. The radio shack model I'm talking about is the $50 that can receive both UHF and VHF signals. It also has a preamplifier built-in.


Here is a link:

Shoot, I can't post any links because I don't have enough posts yet!

but if you do a google search for "# 15-1880" it will take you immediately to the radio shack antenna. A couple of guys on the MDP-130 thread recommended this model, but I wanted to see if there were any Clevelanders with experience on good indoor antennas.


Thanks for the tip about OTA vs adelphia qam. There is a radio shack just down the street, so I think that if they have a good return policy I will go try this antenna out. As far as the Silver Sensor, are there any local stores that sell it or do I have to order online pretty much? Thanks again for the info and keep it coming guys


----------



## Dweezilz

It all depends on your location & sight line to the towers as to which antenna works best. I'm out in Twinsburg with a far, but direct shot at the towers. I had a UHF/VHF antenna with preamp from Radio Shack before the copper bowtie & what I found is that it didn't pull in the stations any better than the $17 bowtie. Get both & see which works better & return the 'loser' of the two. I wouldn't waste the money on the silver sensor as for me, it was worse than the cheap RS antenna. I'm currently using the Channel Master Stealthtenna which is a small outdoor antenna with about a 3 foot span. It has been used by some people inside as well since it's relatively small. It's by far the best antenna I've used aside from huge yagi antennas.


----------



## rayovac

I can't tell everyone here how thrilled I am to actually have found that there are fellow HD and AV techies like me in Cleveland. I always knew there were others around (and I've been reading the AVS forum for two years now), but I never bothered to see if CLE had a local message thread. Of course for me, this kind of neuron - disabled move is not uncommon.


Please forgive me as I am a bit of a noob (at least at posting to AVS), so if I am posting some of this in the wrong place or am too long - winded, I'm sorry in advance...no harm intended. I *do* think that the best advice for me, though, is local.


I have a couple of questions for my fellow NE Ohio HDTV and HTPC gurus out there. First, let me describe my system (I am sorry, but I don't do well with model numbers and am not at home to look them up...I can get them if needed, but will post what I know right now):


Note: CV = Component Video (not composite), DA = Digital Audio (not Digital to Analog Converter)


I have two main 'viewing rooms'. The first is our Family room; for the FR I have:


A Sony 65" CRT RP HDTV


A Sony HD DirecTV receiver (DVI out to the display & TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher)


An Onkyo Receiver / 5 Disk DVD player (CV out to CV switcher, TOSLINK in from TOSLINK switcher)


A Sony 400 DVD "jukebox" (CV out to CV switcher / SPDIF to DA converter (Radio Shack TOSLINK SPDIF, then TOSLINK to rec.)


A Sony 400 CD "jukebox" (direct TOSLINK out to TOSLINK switcher)


A JVC HM40000 DVHS (CV to CV switcher, TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher)


A Zenith DVD player (SPDIF out to DA converter then TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, CV to CV switcher)


A Radio Shack remote controlled AV Switcher (with TOSLINK inputs and a single TOSLINK output) that I use just for the DA TOSLINK switching capabilities (TOSLINK out to rec.)


A (can't recall brand name - Japanese) remote controlled AV matrix switcher (with *broadband* HD CV inputs and dual matrix-ed outputs) that I use only for CV switching (CV then to display)


A Sony PS2 (for the kids...and me sometimes







) with CV to CV switcher, TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, Ethernet in from Wifi bridge (to home wireless network)


Bose (I know, I know) (?300) front speakers for front, Bose center channel speaker, (?200) Bose rear speakers (5.1 setup)


Sony 200W powered sub-woofer.


Sony AV3000 programmable remote control.


A Monster "Stage 2" power conditioner


A 2000 W UPS (mostly for noise filtering - not all components are on the battery)



Whew! OK, as I mentioned, I also have a home wireless network (801 g/a) and the above setup also has an IR to PLC (Power line carrier) receiver to control room lighting via a whole - house X-10 system (Activehome Pro).



Now, for the second room (Game Room, basement family room) I have:


A GE 52" CRT RP HDTV (basically an RCA) - "El cheapo" display (Best Buy for $850 before the holiday w/discounts) - Only has a single CV input.


A Sony 6.1 DTS ES / DD EX receiver


An RCA (new) HD DirecTV satellite receiver (from same dish as the Sony in the Family Room) with CV out to CV switcher and TOSLINK out to TOSLINK switcher


An ADS CV (out) HD Video Processor / De - Interlacer / up-converter (9 inputs - 3 CV, 3 S Video, 3 Composite Vdeo)


A Liteon DVD recorder / player (CV out to CV switcher, SPDIF to DA converter then TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, s video in from sat. receiver and RL analog audio in from sat. receiver)


A JVC HM 30000 DVHS (I have a large collection of DVHS titles...so the JVC players come in handy) (CV out to CV switcher, TOSLINK out to TOSLINK switcher)


Another (also cheapo) DVD player (CV in to HD up-converter, TOSLINK in to TOSLINK switcher)


Another Sony PS2 (same as above - CV to CV switcher and TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, another wifi bridge)


Matched 6.1 Onkyo speaker system and 150W sub-woofer


Exact same RS TOSLINK switcher and CV switcher as with the Family Room System


Another Sony AV3000 programmable remote control


X-10 IR receiver (like above...for lighting control)


Monster Stage 2 power conditioner and UPS identical to above (UPS here is connected to the HTPC below)



In addition, this system has a new HTPC setup:


Gateway 825 HP Windows Media Center 2005 PC - 3 GB RAM, 1.2 TB total HD (1 250 GB HD, 2 400 GB internal HD's, 1 150 GB External USB 2.0 HD), Intel Pentium 3.6 GHz processor, ATI X700 Pro Video Card (with CV output to ADS Video Processor), Analog Audio out from integrated Intel HD Audio Card to Multi - Channel Input (5.1) on Sony receiver, 1 DVD / CD player, 1 DVD / CD Burner (DS / DL DVD Burner), Misc. PC accessories


This PC also is connected to the home wireless network via a second 801 a/g router with a 801 g access point (to pull in internet from the main router, cable modem in another part of the house).


This PC also drives the Activehome Pro Interface for home automation.


The DVHS is also connected to the HTPC via Firewire


Currently, the TV input to the HTPC is output from the RCA sat. receiver via S video and RL analog stereo inputs.


Project currently in progress: I've already purchased an HP Media Center Extender for the HTPC and am planning on connecting it to the Family Room (Sony 65" Display) system so that we can access the HTPC content on the main (Family Room) system. This will communicate with the router wired to the HTPC and should be able to stream audio and video (basically) seamlessly. Hopefully, this will be done over the weekend.





OK! I've you've followed all of that, then maybe you can help to answer some of my questions. Obviously, (much like many of you) I've invested a lot into these systems and would like to take them to the last logical step - HDTV HTPC.


Of course, many of you are already aware of the problems with this: It is impossible (without spending $1000 or more for a 169 time setup) to get HDTV into the HTPC via firewire (or any other arrangement). The only exception is: COX HDTV Cable!


Here is my plan: I already subscribe to Cox for HS Internet....I am considering keeping the DirecTV system but add COX HDTV service to the game room (HTPC) system. I will then be sure to get a STB with Firewire output and run this to the HTPC *and* the JVC DVHS. This should (under MCE 2005) allow me to record HDTV (from Cox) and transfer unprotected content to the JVC (for archive).


Here are my questions:


1 - Does anyone have Cox HDTV in the Cleveland Area (probably a dumb question)? If so, does anyone have a STB with firewire output?


2 - Have you been able to record HDTV content to either a DVHS unit or HTPC with the STB?


3 - What STB do you have?


4 - What STB am I likely to get from Cox (what are my options)?


5 - What problems am I likely to run in to by trying to use the Firewire output from the Cox STB to either my HTPC or JVC DVHS?


6 - Should I just quit and take up a new hobby (like drinking)?



For those of you who have lasted this long, I appreciate your attention. Any help on the whole "Cleveland Cox / HDTV STB / Firewire to DVHS or HTPC" will be immeasurably appreciated. I promise to give back now that I know you all are here!



Thanks in advance!


----------



## Tom in OH

Now we know why the electronic retailers did so well this past year - Rayovac bought their entire inventory ^_^.


Sounds like a very nice system, welcome to the club.


----------



## hookbill

I got a bit of a headache from his post so I'm opting for drinking.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I got a bit of a headache from his post so I'm opting for drinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



ROTFL.







ha!


Off the bat, the trouble you may have with the firewire & cox cable box is that it might not have firewire!


-Todd


----------



## rayovac




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *ROTFL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ha!
> 
> 
> Off the bat, the trouble you may have with the firewire & cox cable box is that it might not have firewire!
> 
> 
> -Todd*



LOL!


Yeah, I suppose that could be a problem...I guess the fact that cox won't have any idea about what I am saying when I tell them that I "need a STB with IEEE-1394 or firewire output and you (cox) are required by the FCC to make this available to me" is also probably going to cause some trouble.


:{


Of course, that's why I was hoping that another Cleveland Cox subscriber who stops by here from time to time (and who happens to have HDTV service and a STB with IEEE-1394) would have some insight.


I do know that on the cox CLE site that it describes the Atlanta Scientific (?) stb which (based on the schematic) seems to have firewire...but then again, it also gives hookup instructions with a different Motorola box (5100 maybe?) that clearly has no compressed video output of any kind.


So, it's starting to look more like the "drinking" option....


Thanks for the help...er...encouragement!




Ray


----------



## rayovac




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *Now we know why the electronic retailers did so well this past year - Rayovac bought their entire inventory ^_^.
> 
> 
> Sounds like a very nice system, welcome to the club.*



LOL! That is *precisely* how I feel!


Actually, though, with the exception of one of the displays (the RCA), the Radio Shack components, and some miscellaneous cables and such, I got most of the components via the internet (which is probably why so many "tech" stocks are making a comeback (LOL)! and then some also at a real honest to goodness "mom and pop" tv shop in Parma.


We've accumulated this stuff over the last 2 to 3 years...and it's amazing how one part leads to another...which leads to another....which leads to another...


Which reminds me of another question: when we got the first display (and the satellite receiver) it was early 2002 and there was already digital programming on most of the major local networks (at least CBS 19, ABC 5, and NBC 3) and some HD programming. Who was the first in NE Ohio to actually broadcast digitally and who was the first with HD programming?


Just curious.



Ray


----------



## Dweezilz

If they use the Scientific Atlanta 8300, it has HDMI. Won't that work for you? from their website:


HDMI 1.0 Digital Audio/Video Output with HDCP Copy Protection

Provides superior uncompressed digital video and audio quality in a simple, user-friendly connector. HDMI provides the optimal, secure connection to an HDTV set. HDMI is backward compatible with the DVI 1.0 video interfaces using the HDMI-to-DVI converter cable.




-Todd


----------



## rayovac




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *If they use the Scientific Atlanta 8300, it has HDMI. Won't that work for you? from their website:
> 
> 
> HDMI 1.0 Digital Audio/Video Output with HDCP Copy Protection
> 
> Provides superior uncompressed digital video and audio quality in a simple, user-friendly connector. HDMI provides the optimal, secure connection to an HDTV set. HDMI is backward compatible with the DVI 1.0 video interfaces using the HDMI-to-DVI converter cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Oh gosh, no! Even if I could interface with HDMI *in* to either DVHS or a PC, the uncompressed nature of HDMI would make trying to record anything basically impossible.


If I can recall correctly, MPEG-2 compression of 720p (which should be the most data - intensive) is something like 12 GB per hour of material. With compression ratios (again, off of the top of my head...so don't quote me) of something like 10:1, even *if* I could grab HDMI uncompressed content I would fill one HD with one movie.


The unit that I am referring to is the 3250HD, which I found here:

http://www.cox.com/support/digitalca...f/sa_equip.pdf 


It clearly shows that IEEE 1394 is available on the unit and even details the merits of the connection, but (of course) it doesn't say if cox provides the firewire model as the de-facto standard or if it needs to special - ordered, etc.


Anyhow, I am preparing myself for the reality of having to actually speak with *technical support* at cox. God help me!


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rayovac_
> *
> 
> Anyhow, I am preparing myself for the reality of having to actually speak with *technical support* at cox. God help me!
> 
> 
> Ray*



Geeze, Ray. I can't understand 1/2 of what you say. How in the heck do you think technical support at the cable company is going to be able to help?










Good Luck.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rayovac_
> *Oh gosh, no! Even if I could interface with HDMI *in* to either DVHS or a PC, the uncompressed nature of HDMI would make trying to record anything basically impossible.
> 
> 
> If I can recall correctly, MPEG-2 compression of 720p (which should be the most data - intensive) is something like 12 GB per hour of material. With compression ratios (again, off of the top of my head...so don't quote me) of something like 10:1, even *if* I could grab HDMI uncompressed content I would fill one HD with one movie.
> 
> 
> The unit that I am referring to is the 3250HD, which I found here:
> 
> http://www.cox.com/support/digitalca...f/sa_equip.pdf
> 
> 
> It clearly shows that IEEE 1394 is available on the unit and even details the merits of the connection, but (of course) it doesn't say if cox provides the firewire model as the de-facto standard or if it needs to special - ordered, etc.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, I am preparing myself for the reality of having to actually speak with *technical support* at cox. God help me!
> 
> 
> Ray*



Well, here's hoping they provide the box you need. As another thought, I checked the cox website & it appears they also have the 8300HD DVR. I have this box as well & it does indeed have a firewire port. since it's a DVR, you'd be able to record right on the box. I'm not sure if the firewire port is enabled yet on mine (Adelphia), but if so, you can then use the VCR feature to record that DVR'd HD program through the firewire. That is all asuming that the firewire is setup & the box will do the VCR copy deal through the firewire. It may be that the VCR copy feature will work only via componant output. I'm not at all sure. The other option is just live with the recorded content being on the DVR itself. The 8300HD provides an option for an external SATA HDD so your storage would be unlimited.


good luck.


-Todd


----------



## rayovac




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Geeze, Ray. I can't understand 1/2 of what you say. How in the heck do you think technical support at the cable company is going to be able to help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck.*



Well, I'll speak v e r y s l o w l y and be sure not to use big words!


LOL!


Ray


----------



## rayovac




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Well, here's hoping they provide the box you need. As another thought, I checked the cox website & it appears they also have the 8300HD DVR. I have this box as well & it does indeed have a firewire port. since it's a DVR, you'd be able to record right on the box. I'm not sure if the firewire port is enabled yet on mine (Adelphia), but if so, you can then use the VCR feature to record that DVR'd HD program through the firewire. That is all asuming that the firewire is setup & the box will do the VCR copy deal through the firewire. It may be that the VCR copy feature will work only via componant output. I'm not at all sure. The other option is just live with the recorded content being on the DVR itself. The 8300HD provides an option for an external SATA HDD so your storage would be unlimited.
> 
> 
> good luck.
> 
> 
> -Todd*



Many thanks for the info, Todd. This certainly could be an option (as you said, *if* the firewire is enabled). It would really be overkill, though, as I've already added almost 1000 GB (0.95 TB) to my HTPC for just this purpose (using Windows Media Center 2005 as the DVR).


Still, in case nobody noticed, I've never been one to avoid adding another component to the system. Why add one part (an STB) when I can add two in the same case for only twice the money (STB and DVR)?


LOL!


Seriously, though, it could turn out that this is an option (maybe the *only* option). Hearing that you've had good luck with the unit certainly puts me at ease if this winds up being the way to go.


Thanks again for the feedback...somehow I'm not surprised that you folks have been so nice!



Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?*



I finally got around to watching this last night. My recording was near perfect, I heard one very brief glich in the sound.


I'm in Bainbridge, not far from you Jim. You had me worried. I guess this must have been confined to your neighborhood.


----------



## rljjr

I don't know how long it will last, but for those of you with Adelphia and QAM tuners, ppv movies on various 104 sub-channels are currently in the clear.


----------



## rs600cubed

Question for everyone: I just bought a sony 42WE655 which has a built in tuner. I live in Stow and tried an OTA antenna and could get 3.1 most of the time, but cant get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, etc. I am looking into satelite or cable, but Time Warner is almost twice of what Directv is, but Directv told me I have to buy a HD reciever for $299 to even get the HD channels. Is there a way I can get HD with my tuner and spend around $40/ mo???


----------



## Tom in OH

Which antenna do u have? It's strange 3.1 is the only one coming in. U might have success yet with a little tweaking or a bigger antenna. A small movement can make a big diff.


----------



## rs600cubed

I have tried just generic rabbit ears and a terk indoor antenna with a 40 db amplifier, wit that I could get 8.1 some, but it would drop every few minutes. I just moved into this duplex, eith my old SD tv at my parents which is 2 mi away, I would get good SD, in this place its bad.


----------



## Tom in OH

I'm pretty sure rabbit ears are tuned for VHF which would explain 3.1 coming in. Terk's antennas have a poor reputation. I bet you'll have better results pulling in the local digitals with a good VHF/UHF antenna.


----------



## Inundated

The 40 db amplifier might be his other problem. If you can turn off the amplifier, do it.


I have an RCA ANT-1205 indoor amplified antenna, and when you crank up the amp, the local stations all but disappear. With it turned off, the stations come in fine. I live not terribly far from the OP...maybe a little closer to the Parma antenna farm.


----------



## Dweezilz

I'd agree. My signal for locals is always worse with an amp. Not sure why that is though.


----------



## rs600cubed

hmmm, I turned tha amp off and still had the problem. Anyone have a ref for a good indoor antenna. Im about 19 miles from the towers.


----------



## Dweezilz

If you have room for that Channel Master Stealthtenna (about 3 feet span), that has been just great for me. I know people have put that inside before.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rs600cubed_
> *Question for everyone: I just bought a sony 42WE655 which has a built in tuner. I live in Stow and tried an OTA antenna and could get 3.1 most of the time, but cant get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, etc. I am looking into satellite or cable, but Time Warner is almost twice of what Directv is, but Directv told me I have to buy a HD receiver for $299 to even get the HD channels. Is there a way I can get HD with my tuner and spend around $40/ mo???*



If you want the HD channels that Directv offers(DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc) then you will have to buy a Directv receiver that is HD capable. Be careful though, Directv is about to begin converting to MPEG4. None of the Directv receivers out right now are MPEG4 capable. If you buy a Directv HD receiver now, you may have to buy another one in a year or two. They are being very tight lipped on their plans. There are numerous threads in the HD Programming forum that discuss this. Another satellite alternative would be VOOM. They have more HD channels than anyone and their HD and SD channel picture quality is better than Directv. I have them and I'm very happy. They are running a $1.00 install deal right now and you don't have to buy a receiver. They will also install an OTA antenna as part of the installation and pretty much guarantee that you get all the local digital channels. Check it out at voom.com

Steve


----------



## TempestII




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by rs600cubed_
> *hmmm, I turned tha amp off and still had the problem. Anyone have a ref for a good indoor antenna. Im about 19 miles from the towers.*



I also live in Stow. I've been successful with the Channel Master Stealthtenna. It's indoors pointed out my front window & I get 5-1, 8-1, 19-1 & sometimes 43-1. This summer I'll move it to the roof.


Chris


----------



## rs600cubed

thanks for all the replies all!!


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by davidshay_
> *Do you happened to know the exact frequency for, say, 105-3 ?*



Sorry, I can't help you. I can read the channel numbers off the box, but I don't know what frequency. My tuner is an LG LST-3510a. There's no details in the user manual, but you might try their website.


-Chris.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Another satellite alternative would be VOOM.
> *



But VOOM has recently been sold, and there is talk that it may go away. There are also numerous topics on this one in the programming forum.


----------



## Reesh

Hi guys, I recently purchased an MDP-130 HDTV PCI tuner. This card lets me tune both QAM and OTA signals. The QAM function is working great and I'm getting tons of adelphia channels. However, I have not had much success with OTA reception.


I live in Shaker Heights, and Antennaweb says that I have ~10 stations that are within 10 miles from my location. I purchased both a Silver Sensor as well as a RS 26db amplified antenna to test them out. Problem is, the only station that I get in clearly is WEWS-DT (ABC) and WJW-DT (FOX) and even those stations only at ~64%. These stations are 9.9 and 10.4 miles from where I live, and the stations that are closer are not coming in at all! The one problem that I see is that I live on the second floor of a 6 story apt. building, and unfortunately there is a 6 story apt building directly in the line of sight for my indoor antennas.


Is anyone else having trouble receiving OTA channels in this area or do you guys think it is my apt building issue? I'll probably end up keeping the RS antenna (has a built-in amplifier) which lets me get FOX in HD which for some reason is not available on my QAM tuning. Between the QAM and OTA I know get ABC, NBC, FOX, and PBS in HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Reesh_
> *Is anyone else having trouble receiving OTA channels in this area or do you guys think it is my apt building issue? I'll probably end up keeping the RS antenna (has a built-in amplifier) which lets me get FOX in HD which for some reason is not available on my QAM tuning. Between the QAM and OTA I know get ABC, NBC, FOX, and PBS in HD.*



I'm nearly 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm where all the Cleveland-based stations are housed, and I have no problem getting the stations from my second floor loft with a simple indoor antenna. Well, except for WKYC/3, which comes and goes.










Adelphia now carries all the local affiliates of the "big four" networks, and PBS. I don't know why you're not getting FOX 8 in HD on QAM. Someone with a QAM tuner will have to help you there. It should be there. The only missing station right now on Adelphia is WUAB/43 (UPN). WBNX/55 (WB) is not transmitting digitally even over the air yet, due to Canadian allocation issues.


I'm guessing the other apartment building isn't helping your situation, if it's between you and the Parma antenna farm.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I see on WKYC's website they're now showing Weather Plus under their streaming forcasts. Anybody have any idea how long it'll be before it makes its way onto their digital OTA stream?


Also, after watching it for a couple of minutes, there is absolutely no way that 3-3 is going to support the video and audio that's being pumped out on the web stream. Unless it'll be a different show when it hits OTA, they're going to HAVE to do away with 3-2 and 3-3 to be able to show this stuff.


But perhaps KYC had some advanced warning (3 years ago) that broadcasting weather plus was going to be a "good business reason" to keep 3-2 around this long.


----------



## Inundated

It shouldn't be long before Weather Plus hits WKYC-DT. They came to the agreement a month or two ago, I believe.


They'll likely need a LITTLE more bandwidth for it than for the radar. I don't know if they'll give it a full SD channel bandwidth or not, but it would be a plus if they did manage to knock off the 3-2 SD simulcast. Then, even if Weather Plus takes a full SD channel's worth of bandwidth, they would actually gain a little...


I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe that they will kill the SD 3-2 simulcast, tho.


----------



## thopkin1




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Reesh_
> *Hi guys, I recently purchased an MDP-130 HDTV PCI tuner. This card lets me tune both QAM and OTA signals. The QAM function is working great and I'm getting tons of adelphia channels. However, I have not had much success with OTA reception.
> *




Reesh:


When you say you are getting TONS of Adelphia channels, are you referring to Digital Channels on Adelphia? And if so what channels can you receive from Adelphia Digitally?


Thanks


----------



## Reesh

I receive

D85 WKYC

D85 WOIO

D85 WEWS

D85 WUAB

D85 WJW

D83 is 10 different spanish channels

D105 ABCHD

D105 NBCHD

D113 PBSHD

D113 CBSHD


I'm not getting fox in HD, but I have an OTA antenna that gets me fox.

It would be nice to get ESPNHD, and DiscoveryHD, but it seems adelphia is encrypting those.


----------



## jtscherne

I was flipping through the HD channels on Adelphia tonight (Shaker Heights). I noticed that the channel guide for inHD showed "Blackout", which is normal when they are showing an NBA game, since Adelphia doesn't have rights to NBA TV. Tonight though, the game was on! (Lakers/Knicks)


Two possibilities:


1. A Mistake (Adelphia??? Nah!)


2. Adelphia now has the rights to show the games


I know that this was something that Adelphia was working towards, but I wonder if they succeeded?


----------



## Inundated

Hmm. Maybe.


Right now, Adephia is passing through the New Orleans/Dallas game on inHD1! They have blacked it out every other time before.


Oh, wait...nevermind. It's NBA TV in HD, and Hornets/Mavericks is just a "look in" to the game (upconverted) in the postgame show. But still, they're running NBA TV, where they never have before.


----------



## Inundated

Is WUAB-DT off? I'm getting NO signal out of them no matter how I orient the antenna, and I usually don't have a problem with them. I also rescanned 28 a couple of times just in case it was a PSIP thing (though 43 did seem to have that in line earlier).


----------



## jtscherne

ESPN2HD appeared as scheduled this morning on Adelphia in Cleveland!


----------



## hookbill

Great news. I want to point out to baseball fans that even though it's not on hd ESPN is carrying it's first spring training game this Friday, according to MLB television schedule. I believe it's Dodgers and Braves.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually they have a game on tomorrow (the schedule is below). ESPN is showing 13 spring training games, unfortunately none in HD. However, the opening game of the season is on ESPN2HD, in addition to two more games on Monday April 4th, so we got it right on time!

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvl...ory?id=1517933


----------



## hookbill

I stand corrected. Now that I think abou it I was at the Dodger site (my team) when I saw that.


----------



## Inundated

Did anyone have to reboot to get ESPN2HD?







(hehehe)


Actually, it appears Adelphia forced a reboot last night, even on my 8000HD box. Maybe they learned from the WOIO thing...


----------



## Inundated

Now that ESPN2HD is with us, what's next? Universal HD? (ex-Bravo HD, home of NBC Universal products in HD) TNT-HD?


I'm noticing a rather glaring hole in the channel listings between Discovery HD theatre at 776, and NFL Network HD at 778. That'd be a nice place for either of the above...anything else we're missing at Adelphia/Cleveland?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Did anyone have to reboot to get ESPN2HD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (hehehe)
> 
> 
> Actually, it appears Adelphia forced a reboot last night, even on my 8000HD box. Maybe they learned from the WOIO thing...*



You know what? I didn't get a reboot last night because when I turned my tv on in the morning it wasn't on channel 1. However sometime between 10:00 am and when I turned the set back on at 1:15 pm I got a reboot. I checked for software update but I didn't see any.


ESPN 2 was on my tv this morning, I checked. But I can't think of any reason why they would have rebooted.


----------



## hookbill

Shut my box off in the afternoon and it went to channel 1 when I turned it on again. Every once in a while Adelphia seems to have this happen when everytime you turn your box off it goes to channel 1. I don't think it's rebooting.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Is WUAB-DT off? I'm getting NO signal out of them no matter how I orient the antenna, and I usually don't have a problem with them. I also rescanned 28 a couple of times just in case it was a PSIP thing (though 43 did seem to have that in line earlier).*



If it still matters, I'm getting WUAB OTA tonight.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ajstan99_
> *If it still matters, I'm getting WUAB OTA tonight.*



43-1's booming in tonight. It WAS off when I posted, tho.


----------



## Inundated

Here's a thought for the future, though probably not the rest of this season: Cavaliers in HD?


If you've been following the news, you know that the local NBA team has been sold to Detroit businessman Dan Gilbert's ownership group.


I heard part of the press conference today, and Gilbert noted his experience in high-tech...he owns the online mortgage broker Quicken Loans...and said he'd bring more technology-related initiatives to the team.


While he did not mention broadcasting the Cavs games in HD, I wouldn't be surprised if that shows up on his radar for next season. There aren't any plans right now, as far as I know, for either FSN Ohio or WUAB. But WUAB, at least, is capable of broadcasting in HD...if it's only sending out UPN's limited HD offerings at this point.


Just a thought in the back of my head. I'm thinking of dropping the Cavaliers a line about it at some point...


----------



## Rbuchina

I was listening to Mike Trivissano on WTAM talk with Dan Gilbert as I was driving home in a blizzard yesterday evening. It sounds like Dan my be looking to follow in Mark Cuban's footsteps (I hope). His first change to the arena will be a new scoreboard and a ring of LCD/LED video displays around the arena. He did mention High Definition as a future upgrade and it seems that he will look for "state of the art" technology for each upgrade. He has a "Build it and they will come" attitude. I hope the talk was not all the typical cheer-leading of a new owner. Time will tell.


Ray


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Shut my box off in the afternoon and it went to channel 1 when I turned it on again. Every once in a while Adelphia seems to have this happen when everytime you turn your box off it goes to channel 1. I don't think it's rebooting.*



Adelphia sets their cable boxes to power-up at channel 1 whenever they have a new announcement posted there. If there's no news, they set the box to power-up at whatever channel you were on when you powered-off. It's just a simple way to make sure we get to see the announcements - after all, when else would you deliberately tune to channel 1? So it's not a bug or a side-effect, it's a deliberate feature!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Jim Gilliland_
> *Adelphia sets their cable boxes to power-up at channel 1 whenever they have a new announcement posted there. If there's no news, they set the box to power-up at whatever channel you were on when you powered-off. It's just a simple way to make sure we get to see the announcements - after all, when else would you deliberately tune to channel 1? So it's not a bug or a side-effect, it's a deliberate feature!*



Oh I figured it was deliberate, but I don't think they do it for every announcement - but I might be wrong.


What is strange is what they consider important to announce. WOIO in HD, ESPN 2 in HD....Those are what I consider a big deal. Some station I've never heard of and probably never will look at changes it's name and that's important to them!


Go figure.


----------



## Inundated

My favorite is the announcements about some crummy weekend event where they're giving out T-shirts or something. But two major additions to their HD lineup? Nah!


Re: Cavs in HD - yeah, that's where I got the idea...Dan Gilbert was saying the same things in his press conference earlier that day. I'm going to drop him a line as a Cavs fan and occasional single-game ticket buyer.


----------



## thopkin1

Has anyone noticed Survivor on WOIO tonight, my audio is 3-5 seconds behind the video. All other OTA Digital channels are fine! Survivor on Dish Network is fine! Just WOIO Digital.


----------



## thopkin1

Seems to be fixed now!


----------



## Inundated

Someone posted this on the ESPN2HD thread on the Programming board...a response from Adelphia in Pittsburgh, after he noted to them that we have ESPN2HD up here:



> Quote:
> "Currently Adelphia is testing ESPN2 HD in small pockets of Cleveland. We are assisting ESPN2 with a beta test for their equipment. Once the beta test is complete we will be adding it to the HD channel line up. I do not have a date as to when we can expect this to happen. I have forwarded your channel request to the local system to let them know that there is a demand for this service."



So, for the thread...is anyone on Adelphia NOT getting ESPN2HD? I was under the impression it went live March 1st systemwide, at least on the main system out of Lakeside. Are the Western Reserve folks (hubbed out of Macedonia) getting it, too?


----------



## hookbill

Heh! Sounds like a canned response to me. Between where you live and where I live that pretty much covers the spectrum, doesn't it?


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by thopkin1_
> *Has anyone noticed Survivor on WOIO tonight, my audio is 3-5 seconds behind the video. All other OTA Digital channels are fine! Survivor on Dish Network is fine! Just WOIO Digital.*



We had the same thing (OTA thru HDR-250) for the first part of the show. We were watching on a slight Tivo delay which made me wonder at first if it was the Tivo or not, but it appeared WOIO was just having problems. Made it tough to watch in parts...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Heh! Sounds like a canned response to me. Between where you live and where I live that pretty much covers the spectrum, doesn't it?*



Well, from Bainbridge/Aurora to the old Northampton Township area...yeah, that's a pretty far stretch. Not to mention Shaker Heights!


Doesn't sound like "small pockets" to me. And what would they have to "beta test"?


----------



## hookbill

Nothing. They're just not ready for Pittsburgh yet and they came up with canned response that's quite frankly got bs in the can.


----------



## hookbill

ESPN HD is not on right now. I was watching the Dodger game and poof...gone. Anybody else having problems?


----------



## Reesh

Is adelphia resetting their digital channel settings? My QAM channels are all F'ed up right now


----------



## hookbill

Something is wrong with digital WOIO. Sound is really messed up. HD WOIO is fine. ESPN is still down.


----------



## Inundated

No problems with WOIO on 4, 704 or anywhere else. ESPN 28 and ESPNHD 772 is fine.


But you knew I'd say that.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, analog WOIO on 804 is fine, too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *No problems with WOIO on 4, 704 or anywhere else. ESPN 28 and ESPNHD 772 is fine.
> 
> 
> But you knew I'd say that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well, yeah when it takes you 4 hours to respond. Let's check our email a little more often, OK.


----------



## hookbill

Actually the audio problem is still going on, at least in my area on adelphia channels 3, 4, 5, and 8 (digital). WUAB digital is not experiencing this problem.


This may be because I have my system hooked up to home theater system and something is not coming through correctly. It sounds muffeled. All HD channels are fine and analog channel sounds are fine too.


I don't know if I want to report it to Adelphia at this time. I may wait until Monday. Anybody else (other then Inundated with HTS experiencing any issues with these channels?


Edited to add: I just got off the phone with Adelphia where the csr told me that the digital channels are on the 800's and the analog were on the lower channels.







I didn't feel like arguing with this idiot but her response was that they are still experimenting with the digital/analog channels and so long as one or the other is working that is all that matters.


I'm still wondering if anyone else is experiencing an audio problem on 3,4,5 and 8.


----------



## dar969

I am having problems on those channels as well. No sound from R speaker. Just noticed that a few minutes ago.


----------



## Inundated

This may be a thing related to you folks using HT systems. I'm just watching in plain old stereo on my TV's built-in speakers.


Hookbill, when you call 'em back, you might want to make clear that you're using a HT system. They're probably just using regular TVs like I am. Just tell them "the digital local channels" and don't bother trying to explain to them that the digital channels are remapped to the lower ones.







They don't know it, and they probably never will.


----------



## hookbill

Nope, not going to call them back. There answer was clear, so long as one of them is working correctly their not going to do anything.


I'll probably contact my Adelphia person on Monday.


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia is sometimes run by mice on a treadmill, it appears.










One can only hope we'll learn the status of the local systems soon, and if TWC or Comcast is going to buy them.


----------



## ZManCartFan

According to the Weather Plus page on wkyc.com, Weather Plus will begin on TWC digital cable channel 522 on Monday the 7th. Not quite hdtv news, but I know a bunch of people on here are on TWC.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *According to the Weather Plus page on wkyc.com, Weather Plus will begin on TWC digital cable channel 522 on Monday the 7th. Not quite hdtv news, but I know a bunch of people on here are on TWC.*



Interested to see how this channel looks on 3-3 ota... radar still showing today.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *According to the Weather Plus page on wkyc.com, Weather Plus will begin on TWC digital cable channel 522 on Monday the 7th. Not quite hdtv news, but I know a bunch of people on here are on TWC.*



Betsy Kling mentioned this on the 11pm newscast last night. I had the sound turned down at first and didn't catch the whole thing, but it seems she never said "those of you with digital OTA receivers can watch Weather Plus on channel 3-3" -- all she talked about was being able to watch it on TWC 522 ???


Kind of sad if they don't even recognize that there are *any* digital OTA viewers out there....


Is it just me or is 3-2 just as bad as ever with severe macroblocking with any kind of motion. Who watches this channel? It's unwatchable. IIRC it really took a dump right after the Olympics when they reallocated bandwidth.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Kind of sad if they don't even recognize that there are *any* digital OTA viewers out there....
> *



This is right off of the Weather Plus website:



> Quote:
> Where can I watch?
> 
> You can now watch on wkyc.com.
> 
> 
> It will be on Time Warner digital cable (Channel 522) beginning Monday, March 7th. We will have more details soon.
> 
> 
> Other local cable companies will begin carrying it on their digital tier shortly.
> 
> 
> I don't have digital cable -- Can I still watch Weather Plus?
> 
> Yes. If you have the latest Windows Media Player and a high-speed connection, you can watch on wkyc.com.
> 
> 
> Additionally, if you have a digital tuner on your television, you'll be able to watch Weather Plus.



So, yeah, at least they acknowledge we exist. Last... but at least we're there.










And I love the last sentence. "If you have a digital tuner on your television, you'll be able to watch Weather plus." Unless they drop 3-2 completely, that statement will surely hold to be untrue.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *And I love the last sentence. "If you have a digital tuner on your television, you'll be able to watch Weather plus." Unless they drop 3-2 completely, that statement will surely hold to be untrue.*



IMHO, we're nowhere near the time where local stations are going to refer to digital subchannels by number on the air. People will get confused.










I wonder if they ARE going to drop 3-2...and how are they feeding it now to TWC if it's not on WKYC-DT yet? Fiber?


----------



## Inundated

Two notes about "Weather Plus":


* The WMP feed is 152Kbps. I'm not sure if that means anything when translated to how much bandwidth it'll take on the DT channel.


* The nationally-generated local radar and map shots - not the ones the Channel 3 weather folks insert in their local shots - are focused WAY too north, and the bottom edge cuts off downtown Akron and lower Summit/Portage/Medina counties (and all of the Canton area). Instead, we're treated to all of Lake Erie and nearly all of Southern Ontario in the radar and maps. I have complained about this in E-mail to WKYC's Mark Nolan.. .we'll see if they're able to do anything about this.


----------



## Inundated

Update: the main local radar shot in that sequence has kicked back down into proper placement...there's another one that still cuts off Akron.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I wonder if they ARE going to drop 3-2...and how are they feeding it now to TWC if it's not on WKYC-DT yet? Fiber?*



So if WP is now live on TWC, that shoots the theory that 3-2 is required for cable distribution of an SD digital feed. So much for that "good business reason" theory.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *So if WP is now live on TWC, that shoots the theory that 3-2 is required for cable distribution of an SD digital feed. So much for that "good business reason" theory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well, maybe and maybe not. I would guess they have fiber feeds to the major systems in the market (TWC, Adelphia, Cox, Comcast), but they may claim to use 3-2 for feeding outlying independent cable systems.


Still, it's kinda silly, since the above four operators cover probably 95% of the cable homes in this market.


----------



## hookbill

I'm not getting any sound on WJW HD via Adelphia. OTA, cable people are you receiving this station ok?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *but they may claim to use 3-2 for feeding outlying independent cable systems.
> *



This is VHF channel 2 we're talking about here. There's no such thing as an outlying area within the broadcast range of 3-2. I would hazard a guess that the big 3 (or 4) cable systems in the area cover 99.9% of the possible viewership of the channel.


Plus, are there any outlying systems (other than maybe Armstrong in Medina) that have a digital tier? And even if there were outling systems, the subchannel itself would be unwatchable and unusable.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *This is VHF channel 2 we're talking about here. There's no such thing as an outlying area within the broadcast range of 3-2. I would hazard a guess that the big 3 (or 4) cable systems in the area cover 99.9% of the possible viewership of the channel.
> 
> 
> Plus, are there any outlying systems (other than maybe Armstrong in Medina) that have a digital tier? And even if there were outling systems, the subchannel itself would be unwatchable and unusable.*



Oh, I generally agree with you, but that's about the only reason I'd see for them to have 3-2 up at all. (And remember, cable systems have much larger antennas than you and I have.







)


We could be talking about systems like Armstrong, like Massillon Cable, and the small handful of other independents out there (is Wooster still Clear Picture?).


Other than that, I don't see why they have "business reasons" to have 3-2.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I'm not getting any sound on WJW HD via Adelphia. OTA, cable people are you receiving this station ok?*



Nearly 2 hours after your post...


Watching WJW right now on 708, and they're not in HD for some reason! Upconverted pillarboxed SD even for the live stuff. Maybe they have some technical problems with the HD equipment. We'll see if we get FOX in HD this evening...


I have my 8000HD set up to record the WJW local newscasts, so I'll check and see later when it happened.


----------



## Inundated

WJW-DT OTA is the same...local news is upconverted SD. I don't know if the problem is their local HD equipment, or if we'll see the same when the network comes up.


EDIT: I just checked the recording. HD and no sound until about 5:10 or so, then they switched to upconverted SD, still no sound. In the middle of a break at about 5:15 or so, they finally kicked the sound in on the upconverted SD.


The noon show was in HD with sound.


----------



## jhelmoreii

I have been reading the last few comments on the new weather plus. I have two integrated OTA HDTV's. Channel 3-1 is network feed, 3-2 is the new weather plus and 3-3 is the local radar. All three are coming in great.


My biggest problems are with 19.1 and the lack of WVIZ in digital. Of course I can watch the Toledo HD channels when the weather is right. I am 20 miles east of Cleveland and North east of the Parma antenna farm. I do not have any cable system since I use a master receiver (C and KU Band 4dtv plus MPEG). So all those cable numbers mean nothing to me. Audio tends to be awesome on some programs and down right good on most.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *We could be talking about systems like Armstrong, like Massillon Cable, and the small handful of other independents out there (is Wooster still Clear Picture?).
> *



I have Massillon Cable. Most people in Western Stark county, and over to Wayne county have Massillon cable or Clear Picture (also owned by Massillon cable).


I don't know where they get the feed for channel 3 from. I always thought it was from an antenna on their huge tower, but maybe not.


Interestingly, our HDTV service has been good. We have the Motorola two tuner HDTV DVRs, that are very nice. The one major local HD feed they do not carry is channel 3's!


We do get:


601 HDNet

602 HDNet Movies

603 WNEO

604 WOIO

605 WEWS

606 ESPN-HD

607 Discovery HD Theatre

608 WJW


We do not have HD HBO, Stars, WKYC NBC, WUAB, WBNX, ESPN2 HD, TNT, or PPV.


http://www.massilloncabletv.com/index.html 

http://www.cpiwooster.com/index.html


----------



## hookbill

FOX 8 NEWS....Now Broadcasting in High Definition.


But not this morning.







Interesting because they are still using the above promo anyway.


I tried to call but got directed to a voice mail.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jhelmoreii_
> *Channel 3-1 is network feed, 3-2 is the new weather plus and 3-3 is the local radar. All three are coming in great.*



Thanks jhelmoreii, I think you're the first person to explain the new WKYC digital OTA channel lineup correctly -- I just checked out WKYC on the OTA receiver and sure enough they are using 3-2 for the Weather Plus now. Now it all makes sense and I'll have to stop my KYC-bashing, LOL. Hopefully they have reduced the amount of bandwidth for Weather Plus to a point where 3-1 improves.


Now the question is - isn't 3-3 weather radar sort of redundant now? I can still complain about the few bits of bandwidth they're wasting there, can't I ?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *- I just checked out WKYC on the OTA receiver and sure enough they are using 3-2 for the Weather Plus now.
> *



Hey you're right. 3-2 is now Weather Plus. Although the guide data still shows the same as 3-1.


Move over Weather Channel.... there's a new radar in town... ^_^


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *FOX 8 NEWS....Now Broadcasting in High Definition.
> 
> 
> But not this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting because they are still using the above promo anyway.
> 
> 
> I tried to call but got directed to a voice mail.*



I assume that whatever broke, it's a part they have to get from elsewhere or something...


FOX network programming last night was in full HD and had sound, so it must be local studio equipment.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Now it all makes sense and I'll have to stop my KYC-bashing, LOL.*



Nah, we've got to have something to complain about!










I only had a couple of minutes this morning to check it out, but 3-2 was coming in rock solid in Medina. I'm not sure if it was weather related (there was a strong northerly wind this morning), but all three channels were coming in about 98% strength for me. 3-1 did look good, although it was a stretch of the Today Show, I think. It was hard to say if the actual bandwidth was increased, but there were no blocks or dropouts from what I could see.


But, overall, if this continues, I think I may have a new favorite HD station in Cleveland. Thanks KYC!


----------



## Inundated

I'm thinking that WKYC is using less bandwidth for Weather Plus on 3-2 than they were for the SD simulcast. It requires more than the radar on 3-3 (which is basically taking nothing), but not as much as a full-frame moving 480i cast does.


----------



## WJW Engineer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I assume that whatever broke, it's a part they have to get from elsewhere or something...
> 
> 
> FOX network programming last night was in full HD and had sound, so it must be local studio equipment.*



Our HD master Control Switcher went south - we're waiting for a replacement (due 3/9) to arrive.


----------



## SteveC

Thanks very much for the update and welcome to the forum. Your comments will be much appreciated.

Steve


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by WJW Engineer_
> *Our HD master Control Switcher went south - we're waiting for a replacement (due 3/9) to arrive.*



Making the broad assumption here that the name is correct...


Welcome to the forum! You're the second member of a local TV station's engineering staff to show up here...we had someone from WVIZ a while back.


Thanks for the response, and the very quick update...


----------



## Inundated

Watching WKYC's "Weather Plus" on WKYC DT 3-2. The picture actually looks a little better than the SD simulcast that used to be on 3-2...though I suspect some of that is because the fairly static weather graphics on the left side and bottom do not require much bandwidth.


It's actually a pretty decent service. I'd check it out often, if I didn't have to contort my body and indoor antenna to get a decent signal out of WKYC-DT (LOW BAND HELL STRIKES AGAIN!). I wonder if Adelphia will throw it on a digital channel like TWC has.


A rescan of WKYC-DT on my OTA reciever changed the 3-2 name from WKYC-SD to WKYC-WX.


I wonder how often they update it with the local Channel 3 weathercasters' cut-ins? It looks to me like they do it about every 4-6 hours or so.


----------



## Inundated

FOX 8 News is back in HD tonight. Either that part arrived early, or they whapped the thing on the side or something a la Fonzie in Happy Days.


Heyyyyyyy!


----------



## DCSholtis

Hey Inundated wanted to let you know I emailed the Station Manager at CBS19 regarding that Masters HD PM I left you yesterday. When/if I get a reply I will post it here and let you all know.


----------



## jtscherne

Not HD, but digital:


Anyone out there with a non-HD Adelphia digital box? I'm not getting sound from the digital locals (3, 4 (CBS), 5, 8), on my non-HD digital TV. If I go to the 800's, the sound is fine...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Not HD, but digital:
> 
> 
> Anyone out there with a non-HD Adelphia digital box? I'm not getting sound from the digital locals (3, 4 (CBS), 5, 8), on my non-HD digital TV. If I go to the 800's, the sound is fine...*



geeze, jtschetne...where you been? I was talking about that last week. Look at the previous posts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *FOX 8 News is back in HD tonight. Either that part arrived early, or they whapped the thing on the side or something a la Fonzie in Happy Days.
> 
> 
> Heyyyyyyy!*



Well, the part must have broken because it's not on HD this morning.


Inundated since you don't have an HD set how do you know if it's in HD?


----------



## fpo701

OK. I have two co-workers who recently got HD DVRs from Adelphia. Both have questions/issues.


Co-worker #1:

Received 2 HD DVRs from Adelphia Cleveland. They have 1 SD, and 1 HD, TV. The SD TV's box has static lines, and the DVR was clicking. I thought that you couldn't use the HD DVR on an SD TV.


Co-worker #2:

Complaining about crappy picture on non-HD channels from Adelphia in Medina county. I was gonna walk him through setting his aspect ratios, etc. But, is Adelphia running SARA or Passport?


I'm assuming that Adelphia is still running the SA8000HD (or 8010HD).


Frank


----------



## hookbill




> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> 
> OK. I have two co-workers who recently got HD DVRs from Adelphia. Both have questions/issues.
> 
> 
> Co-worker #1:
> 
> Received 2 HD DVRs from Adelphia Cleveland. They have 1 SD, and 1 HD, TV. The SD TV's box has static lines, and the DVR was clicking. I thought that you couldn't use the HD DVR on an SD TV.
> 
> *According to Innundated you can. You just don't get a true HD picture because the set can only do 480i.*
> 
> 
> Co-worker #2:
> 
> Complaining about crappy picture on non-HD channels from Adelphia in Medina county. I was gonna walk him through setting his aspect ratios, etc. But, is Adelphia running SARA or Passport?
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that Adelphia is still running the SA8000HD (or 8010HD).
> 
> *Adelphis is running SARA. But chances are he will still get a crummy picture on non hd channels. If he got a new box it's probably the SA 8300.*


----------



## fpo701




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> 
> ...a crummy picture on non hd channels ....SA 8300.[/b] [/b]



I thought the 8300 was supposed to fix the crappy picture problems on SD.


I know that Passport can have multiple output resolutions. I have mine set to do 480i, 480p, and 1080i. That allows my SD channels to diplay at 480p, and gives a better picture. Can SARA do the same thing?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by fpo701_
> *I thought the 8300 was supposed to fix the crappy picture problems on SD.
> 
> 
> I know that Passport can have multiple output resolutions. I have mine set to do 480i, 480p, and 1080i. That allows my SD channels to diplay at 480p, and gives a better picture. Can SARA do the same thing?*



Yes, you do it in the initial set up. If your friend had Adelphia do it they would have just set it to 1080i, so you probably want to walk them through that.


Heres how: 1) WALK UP TO THE BOX, Turn off power, then press both the GUIDE and INFO buttons at the same time

2) Choose Easy or Advanced setup - Easy selects 480i and 1080i outputs only - Advanced allows TV type (4X3 VS. 16X9) and user selected outputs

3) Follow instructions on the screen to set your output resolutions - READ carefully in advanced mode- If the screen goes blank, it is showing a resolution your TV does not support and you have to disable that output. It will cycle through all resolutions for 30 seconds each if no user input is given.


The bad picture looks somewhat better on the 8300. Now that channels they have digital on the network channels that improves the picture tremendously, but there are still problems with many of the other non hd channels that are in analog.


----------



## hookbill

A tech from Adelphia came by and told me what my problem was before I finished. He said he had someone else in Westlake with the same problem. He said he thought it was only on that side of town but because I have it too it must be everywhere.


He reported it and said now that they have enough complaints maybe they will fix it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, the part must have broken because it's not on HD this morning.
> 
> 
> Inundated since you don't have an HD set how do you know if it's in HD?*



Grrrrrr!










I am watching HDTV. OK, so I'm watching it at downconverted 480i on a component cable to my analog TV, but I'm watching it already!!!










You can obviously tell the difference on my setup. For one, HD means widescreen, and if you watch in letterbox mode, even by that it's quite clear that they're running the HD broadcast.


For another, the picture quality does improve. It's not a GIANT improvement on my 480i set vs. the already pretty good digital quality of FOX 8's upconverted feed, but it's still somewhat noticeable.


So yes, I can tell when I'm watching HD. Grrrr!










It's like looking at a still digital picture at 640x480 resolution. If the original picture was taken at something like 2300x1900 or something, and converted down to 640x480, it looks significantly better than a picture that was originally taken at 640x480, because there's a lot more picture information in the original at the higher resolution.


THAT'S what is happening with my set.


As far as outputting the 8000HD to 480i, it's pretty much the same process hookbill describes for the 8300HD as far as I know.


----------



## hookbill

Dude, calm down. I'm sure you'll get a HD tv someday....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Dude, calm down. I'm sure you'll get a HD tv someday....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Can't afford one, now...too much other stuff I gotta buy!










I did answer your question, though, didn't I?


----------



## jtscherne

The sound is working again on the non-HD digital channels. This is Adelphia at its worst. Report a problem and they either don't believe its a problem, or send out a tech for no good reason...


Thanks for being persistent, hookbill!




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *A tech from Adelphia came by and told me what my problem was before I finished. He said he had someone else in Westlake with the same problem. He said he thought it was only on that side of town but because I have it too it must be everywhere.
> 
> 
> He reported it and said now that they have enough complaints maybe they will fix it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *The sound is working again on the non-HD digital channels. This is Adelphia at its worst. Report a problem and they either don't believe its a problem, or send out a tech for no good reason...
> 
> 
> Thanks for being persistent, hookbill!*



My favorite is the time there was a problem, and it took Hookbill to go down to the local Adelphia office and get them to turn on their own TV.


----------



## hookbill

No problem guys. One thing I forgot to mention is when I was talking with the tech about the channels the sound problem was on he said, "oh on the digital channels."


At least the techs know the digital channels are on the lower channel numbers and analog is on the 800's. Now if they could just teach their CSR'S.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *At least the techs know the digital channels are on the lower channel numbers and analog is on the 800's. Now if they could just teach their CSR'S.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yeah, but it'll confuse them. I mean, if you're running an analog feed without a box, are the lower channels still the digital versions?


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody else all-but lose KYC last night and this morning OTA? I was getting signal strength of about 98% earlier in the week when they introduced Weather Plus, and it stayed consistent until last night. Now it's running about 10%, and I can't get a solid lock.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Anybody else all-but lose KYC last night and this morning OTA? I was getting signal strength of about 98% earlier in the week when they introduced Weather Plus, and it stayed consistent until last night. Now it's running about 10%, and I can't get a solid lock.*



Has been fine here OTA for the last few days, including last night and this morning. Signal strength 95-100% on Fusion HD card.


----------



## ZManCartFan

It's back up to about 80% here. It started to come back up with the daylight today. It always amazes me just how prone to the atmospheric and natural conditions the low VHF channels are. Fox's digital and WEWS are both fine and steady 24/7. But channel 2? It'll never be right, I guess.


I guess now I can keep complaining about KYC even though they've fixed the useless 3-2 issue.


----------



## Inundated

My OTA STB doesn't have a numeric indicator, but WKYC-DT is coming in at about 50-60% this afternoon, enough for a pretty solid lock.


We'll keep complaining about them until they get off low-band VHF!


----------



## ZManCartFan

Hey Flatiron - I (just now) noticed that you're in western Medina County. What kind of antenna do you have set up? Are you running any kind of an amp?


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ZManCartFan_
> *Hey Flatiron - I (just now) noticed that you're in western Medina County. What kind of antenna do you have set up? Are you running any kind of an amp?*



Just a Channel Master Stealth Antenna, mounted outdoors on a storage shed in my backyard about 9-10 ft high. The output is split 3 ways, feeding a D* HD-TiVo, a Fusion HDTV3 card in my PC, and an analog TV.


I have an amp for the stealth, but have not installed it because things seem to work OK without it. I can get all the Cleveland DT stations rock-solid (except WVIZ of course - not a trace of them), plus WEAO with about 65-70% (enough for a solid lock) - even with the antenna pointed more towards Cleveland.


The Stealth was originally in my attic, but I couldn't get WKYC reliably before moving it outside.


I'm in northeastern Litchfield, on high ground with a pretty clear shot at the Parma transmiiters - with just cheap rabbit ears, I can get an adequate signal on everything except WKYC (only 20-30% and no lock).


----------



## jtscherne

Any subscribers from the South Euclid area? I may be relocating in the next few months and I'd be interested in discussing your success in picking up the local stations OTA.


Thanks!


----------



## neuronbob

Did the WJW-DT OTA signal go dead today for you guys? Usually it's one of my better performers, but all day today the signal has been


----------



## Inundated

35 minutes after your post...WJW-DT is blowing off the doors for me with nearly full signal OTA.


I'm in Northwest Akron.


WKYC-DT is a notch better than it has been, still a full lock for me right now.


----------



## gnalmij

WJW OTA was also out for me earlier today. Working fine now.


----------



## DaMavs

Anyone else having trouble with Ch. 5-1 tonight? I Tivo'd Boston Legal & it was plagued by audio dropouts. I finally switched to an SD feed, missing ~15 minutes of show since it was unwatchable in HD.


So is it WEWS or am I just getting awful reception tonight?


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DaMavs_
> *Anyone else having trouble with Ch. 5-1 tonight? I Tivo'd Boston Legal & it was plagued by audio dropouts. I finally switched to an SD feed, missing ~15 minutes of show since it was unwatchable in HD.
> 
> 
> So is it WEWS or am I just getting awful reception tonight?*



Ditto here, for the little while I was watching them anyway. OTA signal is strong at 90-100%, but video and audio dropouts, freezes, etc. Ch. 5-1 seems to have more than their share of HD problems on weekends for some reason.


----------



## Inundated

I've noticed this problem on WEWS-DT the past couple of days or so, both on Adelphia cable and OTA.


----------



## neuronbob

I've noticed the same with WEWS-DT as well. The signal strength, according to my Sammy SIR-TS160, is 100% and yet picture and sound are affected. Bedford area here.


Thanks for the replies concerning my question on WJW-DT. I now get a 100% signal. I had to adjust my internal antenna literally millimeters to get it. Unfortunately, this causes me to lose Channel 19. I hardly ever watch it anyway, so no great loss. (Before you suggest I buy an external antenna, please know that I am holding out for DirecTV's new satellite launches so that I might be able to get HD locals.







This is despite living only 13 miles from the Parma towers, atop a hill--unfortunately, lots of trees.)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by neuronbob_
> *Thanks for the replies concerning my question on WJW-DT. I now get a 100% signal. I had to adjust my internal antenna literally millimeters to get it. Unfortunately, this causes me to lose Channel 19. I hardly ever watch it anyway, so no great loss. (Before you suggest I buy an external antenna, please know that I am holding out for DirecTV's new satellite launches so that I might be able to get HD locals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is despite living only 13 miles from the Parma towers, atop a hill--unfortunately, lots of trees.)*



I'm a few miles down the road in northwest Akron, and roughly 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm...and also with an indoor antenna. Same deal. Sometimes if I nudge the thing JUST a bit, it'll become somewhat stronger on one station, but weaker on another. And the fact that WOIO-DT is on a VHF channel doesn't help!


----------



## flatiron

Looks like the weather radar subchannel 3-3 is gone. Just 3-1 and Weather Plus on 3-2.


Also, on 5-1 I'm seeing 100% signal but no picture or sound at all.


----------



## neuronbob

Funny, I was just about to post the same thing, flatiron! It sure beats the radar channel (3-3) even though it has commercials. It's strange that they only advertise Weather Plus' being on Time Warner cable...this is a chance for them to crow about being HD like WJW does with its


Inundated, I'm in the Bedford area, so I'm not too far from you--where I am is about 1/2 way between downtown Cleveland and downtown Akron.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by neuronbob_
> *Funny, I was just about to post the same thing, flatiron! It sure beats the radar channel (3-3) even though it has commercials. It's strange that they only advertise Weather Plus' being on Time Warner cable...this is a chance for them to crow about being HD like WJW does with its
> *



I guess they figure no one is watching the OTA digital. However, every 15 minutes, there's a "WKYC-DT" ID in the upper-left corner of the screen, even on the internet feed! - I assume it would be on the cable feed as well.


I do believe HD PQ on 3-1 is somewhat improved with 3-3 gone - I wonder how much bandwidth was freed up.


WEWS-DT is still off. My HD-Tivo says "no signal", and my Fusion card indicates "100% signal", but nothing there. I'm curious - is anyone getting them on HD cable ?


----------



## Tom in OH

Now 3-3 is showing another version of 3-1. I miss the radar.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *I guess they figure no one is watching the OTA digital. However, every 15 minutes, there's a "WKYC-DT" ID in the upper-left corner of the screen, even on the internet feed! - I assume it would be on the cable feed as well.
> 
> 
> I do believe HD PQ on 3-1 is somewhat improved with 3-3 gone - I wonder how much bandwidth was freed up.
> 
> 
> WEWS-DT is still off. My HD-Tivo says "no signal", and my Fusion card indicates "100% signal", but nothing there. I'm curious - is anyone getting them on HD cable ?*



In order:


I did a full rescan of all channels. The rescan dropped 3-3 for WKYC-DT, so it looks like they've pared down to 3-1 and 3-2. (Good for them!)


The rescan dropped WEWS-DT from my list. It is showing full signal, but not scanning into the OTA receiver. It's also missing, by the way, from Adelphia's 705. So, they're having major problems, it seems clear.


WOIO-DT was also showing with full signal but no lock, but the rescan cleared that. WOIO-DT is now showing program info via PSIP.


The rescan also dropped WUAB-DT from my list...it's not pushing out ANY signal on DT 28. But that's not surprising...it's happened on and off for the past week or so.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *Now 3-3 is showing another version of 3-1. I miss the radar.*



You might need to rescan. 3-3 is now off the WKYC-DT subchannel list for me after the rescan.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, about the WKYC-DT showing up on Weather Plus...it's a legal ID. I only noticed it at the top of the hour. Note that when the logo changes to the WKYC-DT logo, the Cleveland weather conditions are always under it. That's a sneaky "WKYC-DT Cleveland" legal ID graphic!


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> 
> 
> The rescan also dropped WUAB-DT from my list...it's not pushing out ANY signal on DT 28. But that's not surprising...it's happened on and off for the past week or so. [/b]



They were there OK Monday evening, but I think they sign the DT off at midnight.


----------



## hookbill

Well, I don't know about all this stuff with WKYC and their OTA radar, but I think they need to pay attention to their regular broadcast. Law & Order: CI was in lovely stretch-o-vision for the first 45 minutes then it finally clicked into HD.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *You might need to rescan. 3-3 is now off the WKYC-DT subchannel list for me after the rescan.*



3-3 is showing another version of 3-1 again today. I can't tell if there's a difference but maybe it's an SD version similar to what 3-2 used to be.


----------



## hookbill

I just got this off the 8300 DVR thread. Lucky Comcast people!









http://www.thestreet.com/_mktwrm/st...=FREE&cm_ite=NA 


TiVo Snares Comcast Deal


By TSC Staff

3/15/2005 9:37 AM EST


Comcast (CMCSA:Nasdaq - commentary - research) agreed Tuesday to develop a new digital video recorder with TiVo (TIVO:Nasdaq - commentary - research).


Financial terms of the nonexclusive deal weren't disclosed, but news of the agreement sent TiVo rocketing 54% early Tuesday.


The new service will be marketed with the TiVo brand, and is expected to be available on Comcast's DVR products in most markets in mid-to-late 2006, the companies said. Comcast said the partnership will provide millions of its customers with "the opportunity to choose the TiVo service, including TiVo's award-winning user interface and features like Season Pass and WishList, as an additional option."


TiVo licenses digital video recording technology to set-top box manufacturers and offers subscriptions to its digital television guide. Comcast is the nation's largest cable television system operator.


The good news comes as a tonic for TiVo, which has suffered a number of setbacks lately, namely the decision of onetime partner DirecTV (DTV:NYSE - commentary - research) to use a DVR made by a News Corp. (NWS:NYSE - commentary - research) affiliate at the expense of the TiVo service.


As a result TiVo shares have been hammered over the last year, falling from about $12 to recent levels. Bears on the stock say the TiVo DVR is threatened by competing recorders, particularly those sold by cable and satellite television companies.


Early Tuesday, TiVo surged $2.08 to $5.91, while Comcast added a nickel to $34.04.


----------



## Inundated

I hope TWC comes up with a similar deal...as it's likely that TWC will own the Adelphia systems by the time that comes out.










About time!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *3-3 is showing another version of 3-1 again today. I can't tell if there's a difference but maybe it's an SD version similar to what 3-2 used to be.*



Are you sure it's not your receiver?


I just rescanned, and it only picked up 3-1 and 3-2.


----------



## Inundated

WUAB-DT is back. (They shut off at midnight regularly???)


WEWS-DT is still not working, either OTA or on Adelphia cable.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *3-3 is showing another version of 3-1 again today. I can't tell if there's a difference but maybe it's an SD version similar to what 3-2 used to be.*



My HD-TiVo does the same thing, but there is no 3-3 really being broadcast, as verified by my Fusion card. I think this is because DirecTV is still sending out guide data for 3-3 so the receiver is "confused", but what's showing as 3-3 is just 3-1 again, as it's obviously HD.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WUAB-DT is back. (They shut off at midnight regularly???)
> 
> 
> WEWS-DT is still not working, either OTA or on Adelphia cable.*



Better be fixed before "Alias"










EDIT: Seriously, it must be some kind of major transmitter failure, as when it was still sort-of working a couple of days ago, there were dropouts on the local stretch-o-vision upconvert as well as the network HD (which is the usual case).


----------



## hookbill

Just checked my DVR guide. Fortunately I'm not watching anything on ABC tonight.


----------



## Inundated

For what it's worth, digital SD WEWS on Adelphia channel 5 is fine.


That's likely because it is sourced from a fiber optic feed from WEWS to Adelphia. I wonder if they could send the DT/HD feed down the line, too? Or a new line? It appears Adelphia picks up all the DT stations off air now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *My HD-TiVo does the same thing, but there is no 3-3 really being broadcast, as verified by my Fusion card. I think this is because DirecTV is still sending out guide data for 3-3 so the receiver is "confused", but what's showing as 3-3 is just 3-1 again, as it's obviously HD.*



By jove, I think you've got it.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *For what it's worth, digital SD WEWS on Adelphia channel 5 is fine.*



Ditto for the SD feed on D*, as well as the OTA analog signal.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *My HD-TiVo does the same thing, but there is no 3-3 really being broadcast, as verified by my Fusion card. I think this is because DirecTV is still sending out guide data for 3-3 so the receiver is "confused", but what's showing as 3-3 is just 3-1 again, as it's obviously HD.*



That must be it (receiver confused), -- Inundated was right. Now the question is -- Where is the bandwidth previously used for the radar?


----------



## ted_b

Has anyone ping'd WOIO-DT to find out what their policy will be this year on the NCAA coverage? The reason I ask is that although there will be LOTS more HD games (including the ones out of Cleveland Convo Center), some of the bigger games (the No. 1 seeds, for example) are not on the HD list for Thu-Fri. I'm hoping they cover as much HD as possible on 10-1 and let the analog side go with the more popular games if a conflict exists.


NCAA First Round HD/SD Viewing Guide

Thursday March 17, 2005


12:15 PM Wisconsin-Milwaukee #12 vs. Alabama #5 HD

12:45 PM Niagara #14 vs. Oklahoma #3 HD

2:55 PM Penn #13 vs. Boston College #4 HD

3:15 PM Texas-El Paso #11 vs. Utah #6 HD

7:10 PM Chattanooga #15 vs. Wake Forest #2 HD

7:25 PM Winthrop #14 vs. Gonzaga #3 HD

9:40 PM Creighton #10 vs. West Virginia #7 HD

9:55 PM UCLA #11 vs. Texas Tech #6 HD


12:20 PM Eastern Kentucky #15 vs. Kentucky #2

12:40 PM Pittsburgh #9 vs. Pacific #8

2:50 PM Iowa #10 vs. Cincinnati #7

3:10 PM Montana #16 vs. Washington #1

7:10 PM Nevada #9 vs. Texas #8

7:20 PM Utah St. #14 vs. Arizona #3

9:40 PM Fairleigh-Dickinson #16 Illinois #1

9:50 PM UAB #11 LSU #6


Friday March 18, 2005


12:15 PM North Carolina State #10 vs. Charlotte #7 HD

12:25 PM Ohio #13 vs. Florida #4 HD

2:45 PM University of Central Florida #15 vs. Connecticut #2 HD

2:55 PM New Mexico #12 vs. Villanova #5 HD

7:10 PM Louisiana-Lafayette #13 vs. Louisville #4 HD

7:10 PM Vermont #13 vs. Syracuse #4 HD

9:40 PM Old Dominion #12 vs. Michigan State #5 HD

9:40 PM George Washington #12 vs. Georgia Tech #5 HD


12:30 PM Iowa St. #9 vs. Minnesota #8

12:30 PM SE Louisiana #15 vs. Oklahoma St. #2

3:00 PM St. Mary's (Ca.) #10 vs. Southern Ill. #7

3:00 PM Alabama A&M/Oakland #16 vs. North Carolina #1

7:20 PM Northern Iowa #11 vs. Wisconsin #6

7:25 PM Delaware St. #16 vs. Duke #1

9:50 PM Bucknell #14 vs. Kansas #3

9:55 PM Mississippi St. #9 vs. Stanford #8


Ted


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *That must be it (receiver confused), -- Inundated was right. Now the question is -- Where is the bandwidth previously used for the radar?*



It's good to be right about something.










The radar wasn't taking a lot of bandwidth...perhaps 1 MBps. They don't need it now. And the Weather Plus feed on 3-2 likely takes less bandwidth than the SD feed of WKYC, which it replaced. That's because only the window at the top right actually is a moving SD picture. The graphics around the left side and bottom are mostly static, and change in very small increments, so they likely don't take much.


I'll leave it to any of the TV engineers out there to tell me if I'm wrong or not.










Anyway, at very least, they gain back the 1 MBps or so the radar was taking, even if Weather Plus doesn't use less than the SD simulcast did.


----------



## hookbill

I haven't checked today to see if WEWS is back on but I did attempt to watch Boston Legal that I recorded last night and it was so bad it made my DVR reboot. Did anyone watch this show OTA? Just wondering, it looked like transmission problems, pixelation, frozen images, sound drop offs, through most of the show. It was so bad I gave up trying to watch it. I was disappointed because this show brought in some people from Boston Public in a cross referrence.


----------



## hookbill

I just checked WEWS HD is still not on the air. I called them and they told me it's been off since Sunday, they are waiting for some parts to come in.


I'd suggest that if it isn't available by 7:00 tonight to change your DVR'S for recording LOST.


I'm not sure if the digital channel is available, I didn't check that.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I haven't checked today to see if WEWS is back on but I did attempt to watch Boston Legal that I recorded last night and it was so bad it made my DVR reboot. Did anyone watch this show OTA? Just wondering, it looked like transmission problems, pixelation, frozen images, sound drop offs, through most of the show. It was so bad I gave up trying to watch it. I was disappointed because this show brought in some people from Boston Public in a cross referrence.*



I tried to watch it on about a 15 minute Tivo delay Sunday night and had the same problems. Switching to it "live" didn't help so I switched to the SD DirecTV feed for the last 15 minutes - at least then the dialog was understandable.


Sounded like many other folks had the same problem & it was WEWS that was struggling (see posts from late Sunday/Monday above).


I sent a relatively uncomplimentary email to WEWS on Monday asking why they can't figure out how to broadcast in HD. Only response so far was that they forwarded to engineering.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I'm not sure if the digital channel is available, I didn't check that.*



Adelphia position 5, where the digital channel lives, is fine. As I noted above, I think they feed that via fiber optic cable to the Adelphia headend, and it doesn't depend on the over air transmitter working.


Analog 805 is fine, too...


And of course, we're still in "not ready for prime time" mode with HDTV. If the part in question had been on the analog side, they'd A) have a spare on hand or B) move heaven and earth to get the part to Cleveland by immediate or next day delivery...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DaMavs_
> *I sent a relatively uncomplimentary email to WEWS on Monday asking why they can't figure out how to broadcast in HD. Only response so far was that they forwarded to engineering.*



Good move, DaMavs. When I called the lady I talked to had that "I'm tired of answering this question" tone so they must be getting some heat.


----------



## SteveC

DaMavs,

Please post the response(assuming you receive one) to your email to WEWS. If nothing else we will hopefully get the email address of someone in engineering.

Steve


----------



## DTVFanatic




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I just checked WEWS HD is still not on the air. I called them and they told me it's been off since Sunday, they are waiting for some parts to come in.
> 
> 
> I'd suggest that if it isn't available by 7:00 tonight to change your DVR'S for recording LOST.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if the digital channel is available, I didn't check that.*




They're off the air! You won't get any HD until those parts come in and maybe those parts fix the problem so they can put a signal on the air.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by ted_b_
> *Has anyone ping'd WOIO-DT to find out what their policy will be this year on the NCAA coverage? The reason I ask is that although there will be LOTS more HD games (including the ones out of Cleveland Convo Center), some of the bigger games (the No. 1 seeds, for example) are not on the HD list for Thu-Fri. I'm hoping they cover as much HD as possible on 10-1 and let the analog side go with the more popular games if a conflict exists.
> 
> 
> 
> Ted*



I believe that is what they did last year. My guess is that they don't have a clue as to what is actually on the digital feed. They probably assume it's showing the same game as the analog feed. The most thought they are capable of is knowing that there is at least one digital feed from CBS and remembering to flip the switch so we can see it. For the most part, that is enough to make everyone happy. Now if you asked them to get fancy and show one of the regional feeds instead so we could watch an Ohio team play instead of whats on the national feed, that might be pushing it. As usual, I think we are just going to have to wait and see.

Steve


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I just checked WEWS HD is still not on the air. I called them and they told me it's been off since Sunday, they are waiting for some parts to come in.
> 
> 
> I'd suggest that if it isn't available by 7:00 tonight to change your DVR'S for recording LOST.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if the digital channel is available, I didn't check that.*



Luckily the next few episodes of Lost are repeats. It's one of my favorite shows. Great story and the picture quality is some of the best I've seen yet on a network show.

Steve


----------



## Inundated

WEWS-DT is still TU (toes up) as of just before 8 PM. Those parts didn't make it before prime time...


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WEWS-DT is still TU (toes up) as of just before 8 PM. Those parts didn't make it before prime time...*



Something's changed, though. My Fusion card now indicates "100%" signal - earlier today and yesterday it was "No Signal" (even though nada picture/sound). So does this mean the the transmitter is ON, but there are no "bits" being fed into it?


Inundated, see my reply to your PM.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Just got another reply from the assistant chief engineer at WKYC...
> 
> 
> We've pretty much agreed that without a decent outdoor antenna, I'm probably out of luck to get WKYC-DT OTA here in the Akron area. He also mentioned that at some point in January 2006 or so, stations will be able to vacate low VHF channels for digital...but he has no idea if WKYC will elect that route.
> 
> 
> Oh, and he "feels our pain", as it were...saying they "are aware" of the issues with low-VHF and DTV. And he just confirmed that co-operated WVPX-DT 59 is having issues with CICO in Chatham, Ontario...much like the Canadian issues that WBNX is having with its DT allocation.*



I don't know where you are at, but I'm in the valley in Akron. First hooked up the receiver and all I got was FOX, UPN, and UNI. A little fiddling and CBS then came in. NBC was ellusive. I tried and tried and actually, the first night, I accomplished getting it... barely, but then the next day, I could barely hold on to the signal. ABC confused me until I read this forum. Luckily with this knowledge, I've stopped trying to get it. I tried four different indoor antennas, usually with the same results.


So I guess no NBC for a while? Luckily no sports on it. The NCAA tourney and Browns football is on CBS, NASCAR on FOX, basketball and baseball on UPN, futbol on Univision. So that is good!


Great forum here by the way!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *Something's changed, though. My Fusion card now indicates "100%" signal - earlier today and yesterday it was "No Signal" (even though nada picture/sound). So does this mean the the transmitter is ON, but there are no "bits" being fed into it?*



I get what would look like a nearly full signal on WEWS-DT, but my STB (US Digital, the kind they sell at WallyWorld) can't scan on it.


Adelphia "ABCHD" 705 is still blank. WEWS's other feeds on 5 and 805 are normal.


It could mean the transmitter is on and firing, but the stuff behind the transmitter is still messed up...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by yespage_
> *So I guess no NBC for a while? Luckily no sports on it. The NCAA tourney and Browns football is on CBS, NASCAR on FOX, basketball and baseball on UPN, futbol on Univision. So that is good!
> 
> 
> Great forum here by the way!*



Welcome! I'm not that far up the hill from you. But that's the key, likely...you're down in the Valley, and I'm much higher...and probably have a better shot at Parma than you do, indoors.


BTW, I've been getting WKYC-DT with a pretty solid lock indoors. I have to contort the antenna...remember the old "Fox Viewing Position" scenes in "Married with Children"? But I'm getting it. Again, I'm a lot higher than you and have a shot out a large second story window towards Parma. WKYC-DT could also come and go with atmospheric conditions. The problem won't FULLY be solved until WKYC eventually moves the DT channel off of 2 (and not onto 3, but onto a UHF channel, mapped as 3-1/3-2).


If NBC-HD were that important to you, I believe all the major local cable systems carry it...but it doesn't sound like you're that concerned.


If you're getting the others, you'll likely get WEWS-DT whenever they get the squirrels running the digital system again...so add ABC to that list, likely.


----------



## hookbill

Still no WEWS as of 6:00 this morning.







Have these people never heard of Federal Express?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> 
> Welcome! I'm not that far up the hill from you. But that's the key, likely...you're down in the Valley, and I'm much higher...and probably have a better shot at Parma than you do, indoors.



What's odd is that I can hook up a dustball to the receiver and still get FOX quite clear. I do have a nearly unabstructed view going north, up the valley.



> Quote:
> The problem won't FULLY be solved until WKYC eventually moves the DT channel off of 2 (and not onto 3, but onto a UHF channel, mapped as 3-1/3-2).



Hope it happens eventually.



> Quote:
> If NBC-HD were that important to you, I believe all the major local cable systems carry it...but it doesn't sound like you're that concerned.



Actually I just dropped Sat TV and am using HD as my only television source. So its either OTA or nothing. And as long as I have UPN, FOX, and CBS I'm pretty much all set. I can get standard WB in very well, in addition to PBS.



> Quote:
> If you're getting the others, you'll likely get WEWS-DT whenever they get the squirrels running the digital system again...so add ABC to that list, likely.



That'd be nice. Whenever the NHL gets done with the lockout, that'll mean a few hockey games there. Really interested in seeing the NCAA in HD-lite.


----------



## ted_b

KUDOS to WOIO-DT for carrying the HD NCAA feed (currently UWI-Mil vs AL), regardless of the analog feed (which is Pitt-Pacific currently). We now have choices later in the day, watch HD or watch Washington (or IL). This is great!! Maybe it was the two voicemails I left for the head engineers, Jim Setticase and Jim Kopanski....(yeah right)

or maybe they just figured it out themselves...either way we win.


Ted


----------



## DCSholtis

Lets hope they do the same thing for the Masters!!! BTW this mustve been a late change as Im still getting the UWI-AL game from D* usually Id be blacked out if it was shown locally. Which is whats happening with the SD game on now. Blacked out on the D* channels.


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DCSholtis_
> *Lets hope they do the same thing for the Masters!!! BTW this mustve been a late change as Im still getting the UWI-AL game from D* usually Id be blacked out if it was shown locally. Which is whats happening with the SD game on now. Blacked out on the D* channels.*




Here is the schedule for today and tommorrow


Below are the games that we will carry on our analog channel WOIO-TV. Included are the game origination point (in parentheses)teamsand tipoff times for Thursday, 3/17:


Game #1 (from Boise) Pacific vs. Pittsburgh 12:40PM


Game #2 (from Indianapolis) Cincinnati vs. Iowa 2:40PM


Game #3 (from Indianapolis) Texas vs. Nevada 7:10PM


Game #4 (from Indianapolis) Illinois vs. Fairleigh Dickinson University 9:30PM



Please be advised that we will also carry the games from CSU on Thursday which CBS is broadcasting in HDTV format. These games will air on WOIO-DT 10.1 (our digital channel). The matchups are:


Game #1 Alabama vs. Wisconsin-Milwaukee 12:25PM


Game #2 Boston College vs. Pennsylvania 2:45PM


Game #3 Wake Forest vs. Chattanooga 7:10PM


Game #4 West Virginia vs. Creighton 9:30PM





Friday 3/18




Game #1 (from Nashville) Florida vs. Ohio (constant) 12:25PM


Game #2 (from Charlotte) UNC vs. Oakland 2:50PM


Game #3 (from Oklahoma City) Wisconsin vs. Northern Iowa 7:20PM


Game #4 (from Worcester) Michigan St. vs. Old Dominion University 9:30PM



Please be advised that we will also carry the games from Worcester on Friday which CBS is broadcasting in HDTV format. These games will air on WOIO-DT 10.1 (our digital channel). The matchups are:


Game #1 Charlotte vs. NC State 12:15PM

Game #2 Connecticut vs. Central Florida 2:35PM

Game #3 Syracuse vs. Vermont 7:10PM

Game #4 Michigan St. vs. Old Dominion University 9:30PM


----------



## stuart628

just a quick question, anyone with time warner cable in cleveland/akron market with WoioHd, can anyone give me a rundown of the HD lineup for that area, I went online and it says they have it, but the guy I talked to says they dont, kinda confused also what model of the HD dvr are they giving out, I have a appointment for sat. and I would really love to know this info before then. Thanks and for those of you who are in the valley I grew up there in a brick house on N. Portage Path, I LOVE that neighberhood, we moved out to green I think in 98 I really miss it there!


----------



## flatiron

I guess that part's still not in yet - I wonder how long this is going to go on?


----------



## hookbill

It's ridiculous. They must have the part being sent ups ground. If I have time tomorrow I think I'll try and get an email off to ABC about it.


----------



## Dweezilz

Hey guys, I really need some help here. This might be a bit long, but hang in there as all the info is important for you to help me possibly fix this.


Originally, about 15 months ago, I sold my Dish Network 6000 reciever & got their then new Dish 811 HD receiver. At about that time, I started having a problem with the audio on WOIO CBS over the air. I have a Yamaha RX1200 receiver which was their 'upper-middle' receiver. Dish receiver audio was connected via optical input. The yamaha has no issues outputing pro logic instead of dolby digital if that's what's coming through.


What was happening, was that on certain programs on WOIO (no other channels), I would get the same output through ALL my speakers (fronts, center, surrounds). If I turned from the OTA WOIO-HD to their analog via cable, I got pro-logic surround. The HD channel was screwed up & the same sounds were on each speaker, so voice did not come out of the center like it should. This would happen only on a few CBS shows, but mostly CSI-Miami, CSI, & HD sporting events. The strange thing was, that sometimes, those shows would be fine & I'd get pro-logic & some days it would be a problem. I called Dish network 4 or 5 times begging for a new receiver & they insisted it wasn't their issue. I gave up & watched HD & listened to the out of sync analog audio from the non-HD channel. That was not good but I had no other choice if I wanted to see those shows in HD.


Now that Adelphia has added CBS, I figured I'd be in good shape now. WRONG!!! I have the Adelphia cable box connected via digital coax & sure enough, CSI-Miami & now the NCAA tournament have messed up audio so I hear the same thing out of each speaker. Other CBS shows in HD are perfect! I'm going NUTS with this!!!


I'm sure if I connect my cable box via red/white audio cables & then when I have an audio problem, force the Yamaha to analog mode, I will get Pro-Logic. This problem happens on NO OTHER CHANNELS! Only WOIO & only certain programs. Obviously there is something about the audio stream on those programs that when pumped to my Yamaha via digital audio, causes the receiver to not be able to decode it to pro-logic.


So, I'd appreciate any ideas you guys might have. If any of you have an RX-1x00 (1200, 1300, 1400) or equiv., please test this out & let me know. At this point, I don't know what to do. For those who don't have a Yamaha, I'd still like to hear any ideas you have. I wonder if I could call Yamaha. I'd love to confirm if this happens for anyone else with the same exact receiver here in Cleveland. The strange thing is, my reciever is perfect for every other thing it does. DVD's are perfect, games are perfect, CD's are perfect, all other HD programming be it DD or Pro-Logic are perfect. HELP!!!!










Thanks guys!!


-Todd


----------



## hookbill

Well, yesterday afternoon I had the NCAA running through my Pioneer HTS. What I noticed from prologic 2 was announcers, center speaker, crowd in all other speakers. Now I wasn't really paying attention that closely but why I did notice the announcer in the center speaker was my back speakers are wireless and are actually in my kitchen which steps up to my living room. I couldn't hear the announcers so I did walk into the living room and that's when I noticed the announcers on center speaker. I use digital cable from the 8300 to my HTS.


I might add that in many instances I feel my Dolby Pro Logic 2 does a better distribution of sound then what the networks offer on 5.1.....with the exception of football. Shows like CSI Miami sound real good on my system.


----------



## Dweezilz

I clearly hear the announcer from all speakers regardless of what mode I'm in. (not DD since woio doesn' pass that). Basically prologic 2, prologic, neo, etc... announcer was on all speakers. Same with CSI Miami. I think it's obviously a Yamaha issue with a signal from WOIO that is not conforming to standards or possibly just my reciever that can't interpret an signal that isn't standard. That is the only issue with this receiver, so I'm pretty sure the receiver doesn't have a repair problem. I guess we really need somebody with a Yamaha to test this for me.


----------



## oldavnut

I need help too. Installer problems.

I've been reasonably happy with Adelphia, but Voom's new promotion sounded so good. I jumped to change and bad things are happening. Right after I ordered Voom, company announced the trouble they have. It is OK because I don't have any control over it and it's not worth to worry. But Instill. Inc., guy came out and set the dish and antenna on the porch roof, partially under a big tree and behind a south side building. None of local channels are viewable. When the second time the guy came out, he couldn't move the set-up due to bad weather. But he is asking more then $200 for flat roof, water-proof installation and extra wiring. I know voom has 125 ft allowance per receiver. He used the existing adelphia cable for all three receivers. Probably he used only about 100 ft for new cable. My rooftop has a large flat area and above the attic without any interfering trees or buildings. Plus, it is easily accessible form the attic. The installer will be out tomorrow (Saturday) again. My questions are; 1. Can the rooftop antenna installation eliminate local channel reception problem? I live in Cleveland Heights. 2. Do I have to pay $200 or more he is asking? I asked help in a voom thread but so far nobody is responding. Thank you very much. I don't participate much but I alway read your discussions. Thank you again.


----------



## Dweezilz

Man, I wouldn't pay $200 no matter what. That guy is ripping you off. $1 installation means that they get it to work at that price. Sounds like you didn't exceed their 125 allowance, plus they didn't even use their cable so that doesn't count. With a roof antenna fronm Cleveland Hts., there is no way that you shouldn't get the local OTA. I would call Voom if I were you.


Did you know Voom doesn't have any Fox Sports Channels? That's why I didn't get it. No Indians & no Cavs means no Voom in my house unless I could afford both Adelphia & Voom which I can't.


If that is bad news for you, I would cancel Voom & not worry about it. From what I can tell, their content won't be sold & eventually will be take off line. Hard to say for sure as it's a total mess, but that very well could happen. Good news is there's no big money commitment from you so that's good.


Anyway, don't pay that $200 as that is a scam if I've ever heard of one. Call Voom. If they say you have to pay the $200, cancel immediately as you don't want to deal with something like that anyway.


Now everyone, get back to helping me! HAHA!!


----------



## oldavnut

Thanks Dweezilz.


I did not realize they don't have Fox Sports Channels. I should have cacelled it before installation. I've called Voom and they said I'm facing $250 penalty if I'm cancelling before 6 months I committed. Well, I'm stuck for 6 months. I argued with local OTA reception problems but they said it will be fixed and they don't guarantee local channels anyway. I think I have to revive Adelphia for Indians and Cavs. What a mistake!

Thank you again.


----------



## thopkin1

FYI: Seems that WEWS is back up OTA. Picking up the signal fine now!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by thopkin1_
> *FYI: Seems that WEWS is back up OTA. Picking up the signal fine now!*



Well, whatta you know the stage coach containing their part must have arrived!!!


What a sorry excuse of a station to be off the air on HD for four days!


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, whatta you know the stage coach containing their part must have arrived!!!
> 
> 
> What a sorry excuse of a station to be off the air on HD for four days!*



Looks like the stretch-o-vision is gone on the local upconvert - they have a pillar-box format like Fox8 or 19/43. Hopefully this is permanant.

Upconvert currenty looks like a slightly-snowy analog picture, like they're still having some problems. It will be interesting to see if they pass ABC-HD tonight.


----------



## flatiron

Is anyone else seeing dropouts/freezes every few seconds on Enterprise on 43-1?


BTW, WEWS in glorious HD now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by yespage_
> *What's odd is that I can hook up a dustball to the receiver and still get FOX quite clear. I do have a nearly unabstructed view going north, up the valley.*



Ah, but you need an unobstructed view going northwest, towards Parma... where all the Cleveland sticks are. North up into the Valley aims you at places like Brecksville and Independence.


The local stations are also of varying power. I believe WJW is the second most powerful UHF in the market. (WEWS is the most right now, with 870KW...WJW has 625KW on its DT.) WOIO is a VHF with much lower power...you don't need as much on VHF (DT10).



> *Quote:*
> *
> 
> 
> Actually I just dropped Sat TV and am using HD as my only television source. So its either OTA or nothing. And as long as I have UPN, FOX, and CBS I'm pretty much all set. I can get standard WB in very well, in addition to PBS.*


*
*Aim that thing towards Copley, even in your location, and you'll likely get WEAO-DT 50 (PBS 45 & 49's digital transmitter). They run PBS HD 24/7, and upconvert their analog signal on the second subchannel.


WB won't be in HD here until who knows when. WBNX/55 has been in a long battle with the FCC and Industry Canada regarding same-channel interference measurements with a Canadian DT station. So, you'll be stuck with only analog from it for a long time.


You probably don't care, but you should get WDLI-DT (39, analog 17) aiming the antenna at Copley as well. Four SD religious stations (TBN), so it might not be worth the bother for you... Their analog stick is in Louisville, but the digital is next to WEAO/WVPX/WONE-FM/et al. just north of Rolling Acres Mall.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *Looks like the stretch-o-vision is gone on the local upconvert - they have a pillar-box format like Fox8 or 19/43. Hopefully this is permanant.
> 
> Upconvert currenty looks like a slightly-snowy analog picture, like they're still having some problems. It will be interesting to see if they pass ABC-HD tonight.*



Did they? I checked too late, and only got to catch 20/20 (not in HD, of course).


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Did they? I checked too late, and only got to catch 20/20 (not in HD, of course).*



Stretch-o-vision back on 11 o'clock news.










HD was fine earlier in the evening.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS usually doesn't do stretch-o-vision in prime time...I wonder if they just forgot to turn it on in the 7-8 PM time frame.


----------



## stuart628

anyone else seeing some break ups on wuab/43 hd channel? I am getting it on time warner, but every other channel is fine, leaving me to believe its gotta be with their station


----------



## Inundated

I just tuned to WUAB-DT now...even though they're not running an HD show. I've heard about three or four audio breakups in about the past minute. There, five. The signal is nearly full. So it's likely on their end.


Oh, I'm watching it OTA...Adelphia doesn't carry WUAB's DT feed.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *WEWS usually doesn't do stretch-o-vision in prime time...*



Actually, they do stretch-o-vision on all local breaks (at least before last night) during prime time - when they're showing ABC, it's always pillarboxed if the show is not in HD (unless they forget to flip the HD switch) - ABC upconverts the SD show and send it out on the HD feed. ABC's upconverts are easy to spot as they are razor sharp compared WEWS's, which are (stretching aside) fuzzy and full of artifacts.


Outside of prime-time, EVERYTHING is stretch-o-vision local upconvert, so it seems the ABC-HD feed must only be available during prime-time.


WKYC, on the other hand, shows the stretched local upconvert on ALL non-HD shows, even if an upconverted (pillar box) version is available from NBC.



> Quote:
> *
> 
> I wonder if they just forgot to turn it on in the 7-8 PM time frame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



There must be a setting on the upconvert for "pillar-box" or "stretch" that they missed?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by flatiron_
> *Actually, they do stretch-o-vision on all local breaks (at least before last night) during prime time - when they're showing ABC, it's always pillarboxed if the show is not in HD (unless they forget to flip the HD switch) - ABC upconverts the SD show and send it out on the HD feed. ABC's upconverts are easy to spot as they are razor sharp compared WEWS's, which are (stretching aside) fuzzy and full of artifacts.
> 
> 
> Outside of prime-time, EVERYTHING is stretch-o-vision local upconvert, so it seems the ABC-HD feed must only be available during prime-time.*



You're right on both counts...I hadn't noticed them doing the stretch-o-vision routine on local spots during prime time, I'd just noticed the pillarboxed SD programming from ABC.


And the ABC-HD feed IS only running during prime time (or other ABC HD programming, if there's any that run outside prime time). I believe only FOX runs its HD feed, upconverted if possible, full-time...but FOX as a network doesn't have much programming outside of prime time anyway.


----------



## gass




> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> 
> *I just tuned to WUAB-DT now...even though they're not running an HD show. I've heard about three or four audio breakups in about the past minute.
> 
> 
> Down here in south Portage Co. I also noticed the break ups on audio, minor fliker on the pix but pretty steady for the most part. Cool episode BTW. Too bad there leaving, it got good this year.*


----------



## stuart628

anyone else, with cbs and Wuab offline? I am in portage county, and its a no go for both the Hd channels of these two, but analog is steady on.


----------



## Inundated

WOIO-DT is fine, putting in a good signal and HD NCAA tournament action (from Cleveland State's Convocation Center, no less!).


WUAB-DT looks like it has the same disease WEWS-DT had earlier in the week. Full signal, but no lock or picture. In fact, both times I tried to tune it in, that mess screwed up my entire OTA receiver...and rendered the other channels unable to lock! (Hmmm...maybe they do this on purpose







)


A reboot of the receiver cleared it up each time, but I'm afraid to try WUAB again...


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stuart628_
> *anyone else, with cbs and Wuab offline? I am in portage county, and its a no go for both the Hd channels of these two, but analog is steady on.*



43-1 is blank for me OTA. No problem pulling 19-1 CBS though. I'm just lamenting the fact that they're carrying Wake vs. WV over UK vs. UC on BOTH channels. I can't fathom that. I'm sure both WV fans in Cleveland are at the game!


And their web site is such a mess I can't even figure out who to call or email to complain!


----------



## Gsthe1

I'm seeing similar results OTA up here near Mentor - WOIO-DT is fine with a good HD signal for the tournament, but WUAB-DT's video is all broken up.


Bob


----------



## stuart628

hmm I getting nothing, I have time warner cable, and NO picture on Cbs, and NOTHING but breakups on wuab, the game isnt blacked out is it???? I am thinking there has to be a problem with their equipment


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stuart628_
> *hmm I getting nothing, I have time warner cable, and NO picture on Cbs, and NOTHING but breakups on wuab, the game isnt blacked out is it???? I am thinking there has to be a problem with their equipment*



Just took a looke WOIO HD coming in good and clear via Adelphia Cable. Game pq and sound was good.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DaMavs_
> *43-1 is blank for me OTA. No problem pulling 19-1 CBS though. I'm just lamenting the fact that they're carrying Wake vs. WV over UK vs. UC on BOTH channels. I can't fathom that. I'm sure both WV fans in Cleveland are at the game!
> 
> 
> And their web site is such a mess I can't even figure out who to call or email to complain!*



Don't complain...they put UK vs. UC on the analog channel.










I think they went to Wake Forest vs. WV when the UK/Cincinnati game was at halftime. The latter game is on WOIO/analog 19 now.


----------



## stuart628

that is weird, wish there was another time warner sub. on here, both channels are out for me, couldnt be my equipment, so I am guessing that the problem lies at time warner? but why would both channels be affected, they both arent out of the same building are they


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Don't complain...they put UK vs. UC on the analog channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they went to Wake Forest vs. WV when the UK/Cincinnati game was at halftime. The latter game is on WOIO/analog 19 now.*



Yes, I was relieved that w/5 minutes to go in the first half they went back to the Kentucky game permanently on the analog channel. I just couldn't believe they went away from it. And they didn't go away the first time at the half - more like w/15 to go in the first & they didn't go back until 5 minutes in the first - just after I pulled up a net radio feed of the game.


Quite annoying, but at least they corrected it & the parts I missed were when UC was doing well.


Overall very nice having the analog channel broadcasting 1 game & HD another. The UK-UC game was the first where the game I wanted was in SD, but that venue wasn't HD anyway so there was no choice for 19.


And the HD games have been very well done overall.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stuart628_
> *that is weird, wish there was another time warner sub. on here, both channels are out for me, couldnt be my equipment, so I am guessing that the problem lies at time warner? but why would both channels be affected, they both arent out of the same building are they*



We had a similar problem on Adelphia a ways back, when we lost about half of the HD channels...anything above a certain channel number went out. It was some piece of equipment that controlled those HD channels. It took 'em a few days to get it going.


You might wanna call TWC. None of us work there.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by DaMavs_
> *Overall very nice having the analog channel broadcasting 1 game & HD another. The UK-UC game was the first where the game I wanted was in SD, but that venue wasn't HD anyway so there was no choice for 19.
> 
> 
> And the HD games have been very well done overall.*



Agreed. And I was just guessing about the halftime thing, as they seem to have been going to the other game during halftime the rest of the time. I was mostly watching the HD channel, so I didn't see that.










WOIO has actually done very well with it...better than many other stations in other markets. A surprise coming out of Raycom!


And the CSU Convocation Center is one of the better looking sites for HD feeds. It's second only to Worcester, MA from what I've seen.


----------



## stuart628

yeah I am gonna call them, as my cbs, wuab and abc are all out, everything else works its just those three.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stuart628_
> *yeah I am gonna call them, as my cbs, wuab and abc are all out, everything else works its just those three.*



Yeah, could be a similar problem to the one we had on Adelphia. WUAB has been funky, but WOIO hasn't had any problems, and WEWS has been back for a couple of days...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stuart628_
> *yeah I am gonna call them, as my cbs, wuab and abc are all out, everything else works its just those three.*



Don't forget to ask for a credit. No service, don't pay. It won't be much but it seems to annoy the crap out of the CSR's.


----------



## stuart628

when I called, the woman picked up the phone, and my channels started to work, all of them except wuab. so I am guess they are down at the station, wish I could watch the cavs, but I will be checking throught the day hopefully time warner/wuab can get this figured out!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> 
> Ah, but you need an unobstructed view going northwest, towards Parma... where all the Cleveland sticks are. North up into the Valley aims you at places like Brecksville and Independence.



The antennas are just about due north at 345 degrees.











> Quote:
> Aim that thing towards Copley, even in your location, and you'll likely get WEAO-DT 50 (PBS 45 & 49's digital transmitter). They run PBS HD 24/7, and upconvert their analog signal on the second subchannel.



No can do. I'm in a corner, with land rising up and around very close to my home. I tried pointing the antenna about due west and while the receiver was able to barely sense a signal and denote two channels at 50, it wasn't close to decoding the channel.



> Quote:
> WB won't be in HD here until who knows when. WBNX/55 has been in a long battle with the FCC and Industry Canada regarding same-channel interference measurements with a Canadian DT station. So, you'll be stuck with only analog from it for a long time.



Darn liberal canadians!







Why can't they just choose another signal?



> Quote:
> You probably don't care, but you should get WDLI-DT (39, analog 17) aiming the antenna at Copley as well. Four SD religious stations (TBN), so it might not be worth the bother for you... Their analog stick is in Louisville, but the digital is next to WEAO/WVPX/WONE-FM/et al. just north of Rolling Acres Mall.



I'll consider it a blessing that I can't.










Oh, ABC comes in clear as a bell... whatever that means. Now that's the Indy 500 in HDTV. I was watching a little NASCAR with HD signal and the widescreen was made for it! You see alot more action.


One question, when I first hooked up my receiver, I used some normal Coax with terrible results, about 20 to 30 feet worth. So I used some higher grade coax that was used with the Sat dish that was installed with much greater results. Are there any specs regarding what the best wire would be, and whether it would make much of a difference. And is signal loss on the cable linear or exponetial, and at what point would it matter? I hated Physics II.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I clearly hear the announcer from all speakers regardless of what mode I'm in. (not DD since woio doesn' pass that). Basically prologic 2, prologic, neo, etc... announcer was on all speakers. Same with CSI Miami. I think it's obviously a Yamaha issue with a signal from WOIO that is not conforming to standards or possibly just my reciever that can't interpret an signal that isn't standard. That is the only issue with this receiver, so I'm pretty sure the receiver doesn't have a repair problem. I guess we really need somebody with a Yamaha to test this for me.*



Hey Todd,

have u switched the digital feed to a different digital input on your receiver to see if u get the same results?


Tom


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *Hey Todd,
> 
> have u switched the digital feed to a different digital input on your receiver to see if u get the same results?
> 
> 
> Tom*



I haven't switched the cable box to a different input, but the Dish Receiver is in a different digital input & I still have the same results OTA with CBS as I do with the cable box. The Dish receiver is even in an optical while the cable is in a coax. I'm sure it would be the same if I switched it since already two different inputs have the same issue with those programs on CBS. It's quite puzzling.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *I'm sure it would be the same if I switched it since already two different inputs have the same issue with those programs on CBS. It's quite puzzling.*



It must be something different with the channel's digital feed just as u suspected.


----------



## stuart628

is wuab still off for everyone, or is it just me??


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by stuart628_
> *is wuab still off for everyone, or is it just me??*



They're still off OTA.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by yespage_
> *One question, when I first hooked up my receiver, I used some normal Coax with terrible results, about 20 to 30 feet worth. So I used some higher grade coax that was used with the Sat dish that was installed with much greater results. Are there any specs regarding what the best wire would be, and whether it would make much of a difference. And is signal loss on the cable linear or exponetial, and at what point would it matter? I hated Physics II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



You always want to use RG6 (RG6 quad-shield is even better, but not absolutely necessary, IMHO)


RG59 is evil - that's generally the thin crap cable you get "free" in the box with your new equipment.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *You always want to use RG6 (RG6 quad-shield is even better, but not absolutely necessary, IMHO)
> 
> 
> RG59 is evil - that's generally the thin crap cable you get "free" in the box with your new equipment.*



Thanks. I looked at the cable that the Sat TV used to install the dish... and low and behold it was RG6 which would explain why it worked and not the other cable.


----------



## wfwiles

With the short distances you are using you should see no difference with rg59 or rg6. If it wasn't working with rg59 the cable was probably defective, ends not installed right, open or short in cable. RG59 is more flexible and lighter duty than RG6 but indoors on short runs it shouldn't make any difference. Both have an impedence of 75 ohms. Losses are slightly different due to size of conductors, shielding, insulation, etc.


----------



## TLaz

Any word on when WUAB-DT will be back on the air?


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by TLaz_
> *Any word on when WUAB-DT will be back on the air?*



Looks like it's back on now.


----------



## rlockshin

Anyone else notice breakups during WOIO NCAA game last night OTA ?


----------



## SteveC

Looked pretty solid to me. I only watched till about 10:30 and I was flipping over to the other game on analog during the breaks. I can't recall seeing any breakups.

Steve


----------



## hookbill

Just curious. I'm not getting emails on some subscribed threads in the AVS forum. No activity for a couple of days. Anyone alerted by email when I posted this?


----------



## jtscherne

I received the email. This has happened to me sometimes too, where I don't receive notification. Luckily there's only a few threads I check out.


----------



## stuart628

yeah, plus this thread has been quiet, now that all the parts are in, and stations are doing what they are suppose to, I am actaully getting a chance to watch my shows. By the way first time I have been getting to watched full strength HD shows was this week (use to have directv) and FOX HD is a really nice picture for american idol. well off to work, have a great day.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Just curious. I'm not getting emails on some subscribed threads in the AVS forum. No activity for a couple of days. Anyone alerted by email when I posted this?*



Something changed in their software the last couple months - I used to get "too many" notifications and now it's "not enough". I have missed quite a bit of activity here the last few weeks because I'm not getting my notifications.


----------



## hookbill

I got an email from Dave Bott, he said he sees confirmations on all email sent to me for subscriptions I have. True this forum has been inactive - which is a good thing because things are working







- but on the 8300 - Sara thread I subscribe to there was lots of talk there I missed. I'm getting emails on that one too now.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Something changed in their software the last couple months - I used to get "too many" notifications and now it's "not enough". I have missed quite a bit of activity here the last few weeks because I'm not getting my notifications.*



Me, too.


I think the way it's supposed to work is that you get one email as soon as a new post is made to the thread. You then won't get any more emails for new posts until AVS Forum "sees" that you have read at least the first new one.


But I've had a few times where it sure seemed like the system didn't catch the fact that I had been there to read the new messages. I then didn't get any new email notifications at all until after I went back to find the thread on my own to check on it.


----------



## cristo28

Hookbill


I noticed last week I got "unsubscribed" to this forum and had to resubscribe.


Also could you send me a link to the 8300 forum. Thanks


John


----------



## hookbill

Here's the one I go to most of the time: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post5407294. And if you go to the front page of the AVS forum and look under HD you'll see a link for recorders and players. There are several other forums for the 8300 located there as well.


----------



## cristo28

Thanks have good week.


John


----------



## electronics craz

i just got the dish system with hd package and question is how do i get my locals from cleveland/woio/wews/fox to come in high def?righr now they come in digital and look good but not high def


----------



## Dweezilz

You need to hook up an antenna to your Dish receiver (it's an 811 right?). Once you have an antenna hooked up, then just go into the setup menu & detect local digital stations & it will automatically add them. It also depends on your location as to if you'll actually pull them in. The farther away you are, the bigger an antenna you need & the higher it needs to be placed. The direction you point the antenna is important as well. If you go to antennaweb.org you can find the right direction & recommended type if you don't already have one.


-Todd


----------



## hookbill

I've noticed this week that my future recordings have been off. Sunday, Monday Tuesday and Wednesday times to record are off.


Then today it just hit me. Everything is off by one hour! Daylight savings time.


Apparently the IPG and my DVR are not talking correctly.i.e. NCIS is scheduled but at 9:00 pm, not 8:00 pm and then recordings for the news is scheduled but my 10:00 pm shows are not.


So what I'm saying is go through your programing guide and make sure your programs are set correctly. This wasn't a problem as far as I remember when we switched the clocks the last time, but it appears to be one now.


----------



## Dweezilz

That is strange since we haven't even switched the clocks yet! Wonder why that is. Somebody flip a switch too soon??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *That is strange since we haven't even switched the clocks yet! Wonder why that is. Somebody flip a switch too soon??*



My thinking is that it's just the mickey mouse software from SA. I'm not sure how it works. Sometimes I think it's nothing more then a glorified VCR, but it does somehow program by names. If you tell it to program Law & Order all programs, time slot and NBC decides to put a repeat on Saturday night it will pick it up.


I've said it before...it ain't no TiVo.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah, it's not a Tivo for sure. I do know that these 8300's are capable of more than Adelphia is providing. There's a software update for it that we do not have which allows for more options in regards to time slots & record all programs etc... You can tell it to record only 1st run programs instead repeats. Sure wish Adelphia would at least implement that for us.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Yeah, it's not a Tivo for sure. I do know that these 8300's are capable of more than Adelphia is providing. There's a software update for it that we do not have which allows for more options in regards to time slots & record all programs etc... You can tell it to record only 1st run programs instead repeats. Sure wish Adelphia would at least implement that for us.*



From what I understand we already have that option in our software. The problem is the IPG. Adelphia or whatever company they deal with does not list it as first run or repeat.


Once they update the IPG we should be able to do that.


----------



## electronics craz

i have a question.i recently got the dish with the 811 hd reciever.i get my local channels from cleveland but not in high def.so if i get the off air hd attena dish says i need will i indeed get these stations in true high def?.ie prime time linup ncaa b-ball mnf


----------



## Dweezilz

Not sure if you saw my reply to you as I already answered your questions. Make sure you are going out of the DVI or Componant out of the 811 & into those on your TV. Make sure the 811 is set to 1080i as well (unless you have a TV that is another resolution). The 811 often comes set defaulted to 720p for some reason for the HD setting. Also, are you getting the other HD package channels in HD?


-Todd


----------



## Tom in OH

Hi,

if your antenna can receive the Cleveland HD signals(and the 811 has a digital ota tuner) then yes, most channels will be true hi-def.


Welcome to the forum.


----------



## electronics craz

i do have the hd pack and i do get hd chanels.dish people told me to get off air hd attena at best buy for 40.00 plug into back of 811 and i will recieve hd.wanted too now for sure if that will work before wasting my time and money.thanks for your help.brian


----------



## TLaz

Is WUAB-DT having problems with its transmission? I can't receive it today.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by electronics craz_
> *i do have the hd pack and i do get hd chanels.dish people told me to get off air hd attena at best buy for 40.00 plug into back of 811 and i will recieve hd.wanted too now for sure if that will work before wasting my time and money.thanks for your help.brian*



ok. That is correct. Put the antenna in & go into the menu of the 811 to system setup & then local channels to detect the local digitals. Getting the right antenna is important too so you may have to try a few different ones until you get the one that works best for you & your location. More expensive isn't always better. Sometimes you can get away with an indoor antenna & sometimes it will require an outdoor. Direction is also very important so make sure to point it the correct way. Again, go to that website I mentioned previously & it'll point you in the right direction.


The key to finding information is to search this forum. Most of the questions you probably have can be found.


-Todd


----------



## extremegamer

Quick question, anyone know if Comcast is ever going to add any more HD channels? I was over my buddy's house and he has Adelphia which has NFLHD (which Comcast had for about a week then it vanished), ESPN2 HD, PBSHD, and both HDNET's, none of which Comcast has. Adelphia's 8300 box is also a lot nicer than Comcast's HD DVR box IMO. I call Comcast and they are clueless and then procede to tell me that Adelphia's lineup's and equipment is bad. So of course I ask why do they have more channels then?! They have no answer. So frustrating.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by extremegamer_
> *Quick question, anyone know if Comcast is ever going to add any more HD channels? I was over my buddy's house and he has Adelphia which has NFLHD (which Comcast had for about a week then it vanished), ESPN2 HD, PBSHD, and both HDNET's, none of which Comcast has. Adelphia's 8300 box is also a lot nicer than Comcast's HD DVR box IMO. I call Comcast and they are clueless and then procede to tell me that Adelphia's lineup's and equipment is bad. So of course I ask why do they have more channels then?! They have no answer. So frustrating.*



I can't tell you if they are adding anymore HD channels, but you really should be excited about the fact that Comcast struck a deal with TiVo and in about a year and a half you should be able to get TiVo from Comcast.


Just to let you know, NFLHD has hardly any HD content. No big loss there imho.


Unless you know someone who works at Comcast you probably won't find out what they are planning on adding. We just recently got WOIO-HD (CBS) added on and we were the last to get it . We being Adelphia people.


----------



## stuart628

I dont know time warner just added it a little over a month ago, so they were dragging their feet on that channel (woio Hd) its too bad their are all these sat websites, talking about whats coming up. BUt nothing for cable, all I want is ESPN2hd and I will be fine for my Channel lineup for now, everythind being in digital would be nice, but I think we have about 2 years on that.


----------



## ajstan99

Quick FYI for anyone who is looking for a decent, inexpensive OTA tuner.


Yesterday, the Sears at South Park Strongsville has a Sylvania SRZ3000 on the closeout table for $109. Looked to be an open box (I didn't see a remote.)


I've had pretty good success with an SRZ3000 paired with a silver sensor.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I can't tell you if they are adding anymore HD channels, but you really should be excited about the fact that Comcast struck a deal with TiVo and in about a year and a half you should be able to get TiVo from Comcast.
> 
> 
> Just to let you know, NFLHD has hardly any HD content. No big loss there imho.
> 
> 
> Unless you know someone who works at Comcast you probably won't find out what they are planning on adding. We just recently got WOIO-HD (CBS) added on and we were the last to get it . We being Adelphia people.*




If I still have Comcast in a year and a half, shoot me. Their customer service has been awful, probably the worst I've ever dealt with.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has been great up until now - but they have fallen behind Adelphia on the HD lineup. No ESPN2HD, PBSHD or inHD. No SHO-HD.


I have to start getting on their case about ESPN2HD since it looks like they have a lot of HD baseball this season. But on the other hand ESPN2HD was just launched a couple months ago and these cable systems take forever to make their "deals" so if I saw it in 6 months I would consider myself lucky.


Anyone considering WOW and the SA8000HD - make *sure* you don't end up with an 80GB HD DVR - that's what I got stuck with as an "early adopter" and the CSRs at WOW claim they only have 80GB models (personally I think they are confusing the SD and HD versions of the SA8000, but I can't beat the facts out of them) I would be surprised if they are still installing 80GB HD DVR's, but you want to make 100% sure on that.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by extremegamer_
> *If I still have Comcast in a year and a half, shoot me. Their customer service has been awful, probably the worst I've ever dealt with.*



Gee that sounds familiar....isn't that right Adelphia fans! ha! I can say the same for Dish Network too. I'm sure they are all in the running for 'worst customer service ever'. Ya know what they say...the grass isn't always greener on the...


----------



## hookbill

Yep, I've said that about Adelphia on many occasions. I'm actually pleased that there is another company out there that may be as bad as them.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Wide Open West has been great up until now - but they have fallen behind Adelphia on the HD lineup. No ESPN2HD, PBSHD or inHD. No SHO-HD.
> *



As far as WVIZ-DT (PBS-HD) is concernced, I was told that WOW will be picking that up in the summer when WVIZ starts broadcasting from it's main tower in North Royalton.


Word from WVIZ is that they will be broadcasting at full power from the North Royalton tower at the end of the summer, however they plan do it it earlier.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *As far as WVIZ-DT (PBS-HD) is concernced, I was told that WOW will be picking that up in the summer when WVIZ starts broadcasting from it's main tower in North Royalton.
> 
> 
> Word from WVIZ is that they will be broadcasting at full power from the North Royalton tower at the end of the summer, however they plan do it it earlier.*



If you go a few pages back on this thread, WVIZ's engineer actually posted about this.










They are actively working on it. They had to wait until they came to a settlement with Viacom Radio, which owns the site...which also serves WNCX/98.5 among others. Then, they had to redesign the thing, and I presume even as we speak (type?), they're building it out.


----------



## Inundated

Re: Adelphia...I'm actually OK with their HD lineup now. The only missing piece I'd like to see is TNT-HD (NBA games in HD, and they plan on doing a lot more HD, including in studio stuff and HD versions of their syndicated reruns). Oh, and I wouldn't mind WUAB in HD, but that's not a huge deal unless they start running Cavaliers' games in HD.


If...that ever happens.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Wow, I havnt seen this thread in months.


Non-HD question. Baseball season is upon us, and I don't have cable. Its a hassle to go thru the salesmen with Adelphia and WOW!, does anyone know what the cheapest price is for those 2 cable providers for a package that would include Fox Sports Ohio. Baseball is back and I need to see some Indians baseball.


Thanks,


Stu


----------



## paule123

Stu,

I would guess WOW Basic Cable (what you would need) is running about $36.99 + tax. That's what I used to pay before I switched to digital basic and all the HD crap.


This is the lineup:
http://www1.wowway.com/PDF/ClevelandChannels.pdf 


Pricing for everything *but* basic is here:
http://www1.wowway.com/wowPriceBundleC.asp


----------



## pupper

Is anybody having trouble with the Cleveland channels. The only one I can even get any signal on is 8-1, but it is only 27%. This has been going on for two days now.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by pupper_
> *Is anybody having trouble with the Cleveland channels. The only one I can even get any signal on is 8-1, but it is only 27%. This has been going on for two days now.*



Everything's 100% here, and has been all evening.


----------



## hookbill

There's a message on channel 1 now on Adelphia. It's amazing because it's actually something important. The Head End is doing some maintenance on 4/6 at 12:01 am to 6:00 am, it says don't reboot your machine during that time. It also mentions that the IPG may not be available.


So my first thought was....Are they going to change the IPG so that it shows first run and repeats?


Crossing my fingers.


----------



## Inundated

At least here, WOIO-HD is down on Adelphia. I don't have access to my OTA box right now, so I can't see if it's down at the transmitter end...


----------



## DCSholtis

FYI it appears that WOIO-HD WONT be carrying the HD feed of the Masters on Thursday or Friday as I had thought/hoped/expected they would. I just checked the EPG on my Tivo and saw that the SD and HD feeds will mirror each other therefore no Masters. At least I have Universal HD with D* so it wont be bad. Would have liked to have compared the 2 feeds to see if they were going to use separate cameras etc.


----------



## wfwiles




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I can't tell you if they are adding anymore HD channels, but you really should be excited about the fact that Comcast struck a deal with TiVo and in about a year and a half you should be able to get TiVo from Comcast.
> 
> 
> Just to let you know, NFLHD has hardly any HD content. No big loss there imho.
> 
> 
> Unless you know someone who works at Comcast you probably won't find out what they are planning on adding. We just recently got WOIO-HD (CBS) added on and we were the last to get it . We being Adelphia people.*



I finally got the Comcast dual tuner dvr and it performes pretty close to the tivo. The single tuner was useless. It is nice to be able to record the HD channels. My tivo is the stand alone so I can only record the analog channels directly from the cable.....


----------



## Inundated

WOIO-HD has been back since early this evening...just in time for my recording of the "Amazing Race" clip show at 8. (I record it off the HD channel even though it's not in HD, because it's clearer than even the digital version on 4.)


And I'm not surprised WOIO isn't carrying the HD coverage of the Masters on Thursday and Friday. Some CBS affiliates are, but they are ones that usually have the ability to program their feeds separately. I'm guessing WOIO doesn't want to bail on the regular CBS lineup on the digital channel on Thursday and Friday, or just doesn't want to bother with it.


In one of my former home markets, Roanoke, VA, the forward-thinking CBS affiliate there is doing it, but they pay a lot of attention to their digital channel...in market #67 no less.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

they arent doing it? they've done it the last 2 years. thats bs.


----------



## Inundated

My mistake. WOIO-DT is showing the HD Masters coverage, as of 4 PM today.


I wasn't aware that they had done it before. Judging from the thread in HDTV Programming, many other CBS affiliates are doing this as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *My mistake. WOIO-DT is showing the HD Masters coverage, as of 4 PM today.
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware that they had done it before. Judging from the thread in HDTV Programming, many other CBS affiliates are doing this as well.*



hmmmm...no HD TV.....so it's not in HD. Then someone comes on that actually OWNS a HDTV and corrects you.










What the heck, golf is boring. C'mon guys you arn't really watching that stuff are you?


----------



## gass

Universal HD was supposed to air the first two rounds in HD. with SD on USA.


ps: Golf Rules!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *
> 
> What the heck, golf is boring. C'mon guys you arn't really watching that stuff are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Coming from a flock leader of 11 parrots.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *hmmmm...no HD TV.....so it's not in HD. Then someone comes on that actually OWNS a HDTV and corrects you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Sigh, do we have to go through this again?










I think someone's telling me I should get off Internet message boards. I seem to have a target on my back lately.


My earlier message was an assumption, based on knowledge of Raycom and WOIO, not based on the actual programming. The later message was posted by me, when I actually watched what they did, on their HD feed. Now, if you wanna come over here and measure pixels on my screen...be my guest!!!










The incorrect assumption had nothing to do with the resolution of my screen, which can display downcoverted - but still good looking HD programming - both on cable and OTA.







And as I've said about 20 times, though it is certainly not "full resolution HD", it's quite easy to tell if programming is in HD or not on my set. Harumph.










Now, on other matters...we Adelphia types may be either on Time Warner or Comcast somewhere in the next year or so. The Adelphia board has reportedly agreed in principle to the joint TWC/Comcast bid. I don't know if they know at this point where the Cleveland systems go...since both TWC and Comcast have Northeast Ohio operations.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Sigh, do we have to go through this again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think someone's telling me I should get off Internet message boards. I seem to have a target on my back lately.
> 
> 
> My earlier message was an assumption, based on knowledge of Raycom and WOIO, not based on the actual programming. The later message was posted by me, when I actually watched what they did, on their HD feed. Now, if you wanna come over here and measure pixels on my screen...be my guest!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The incorrect assumption had nothing to do with the resolution of my screen, which can display downcoverted - but still good looking HD programming - both on cable and OTA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as I've said about 20 times, though it is certainly not "full resolution HD", it's quite easy to tell if programming is in HD or not on my set. Harumph.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, on other matters...we Adelphia types may be either on Time Warner or Comcast somewhere in the next year or so. The Adelphia board has reportedly agreed in principle to the joint TWC/Comcast bid. I don't know if they know at this point where the Cleveland systems go...since both TWC and Comcast have Northeast Ohio operations.*



Yes we have to go through this again. And again. Until you get a HD set.


What in the world could you have more important to do with your money then get an HD set? C'mon, Inundated. It reminds me of when I was a kid and all the other kids had Schwinn Stingrays and I had a cheapo imatation.


Inundated, cross the line. You can do it. The time is now.


----------



## Dweezilz

I hope this is good news. I wonder what we'll get here in Twinsburg, Comcast or TM?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor.../adelphia_sale


----------



## hookbill

I'm not to sure I want Comcast. Yes, I like the TiVo coming and from what I read their DVR as it stands now is superior to what we have, but I have heard from some Comcast people that their customer service is as bad as Adelphia. I think their cost is high too.


Still I have to believe no matter who takes it over it has got to be better then Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *What in the world could you have more important to do with your money then get an HD set? C'mon, Inundated. It reminds me of when I was a kid and all the other kids had Schwinn Stingrays and I had a cheapo imatation.
> 
> 
> Inundated, cross the line. You can do it. The time is now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Oh, I'm still thinking about it. Then I look at the thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of outgoing expenses related to my startup business ventures, with no money coming in yet, and I hold off.










But until that time...I can STILL tell the difference between HD feeds and SD feeds on my set with ease.










To the Adelphia issue...I am pulling for TWC to take over. That would finally bring us over here in western/northern Summit County into TWC's Akron system. If TWC takes over all of Adelphia's Northeast Ohio systems, they may also start a 24/7 local news channel like they have in much of North Carolina. That's not as likely as it was about 3 years ago, when they were starting them like weeds, but with critical mass in subscribers in the Cleveland market, they might do it anyway.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West hit my SA8000HD with a software update - we're at SARA 1.87.16.1 now.


Some interesting new things appear on the diagnostic menu - an option for Disk 1 and Disk 2.... external USB drives in our future perhaps?


DVI and Firewire options (both of which say "disabled" ....grrrr....)


The IPG now displays an "HD" icon on any programming that is broadcasting in HD.


But no ESPN2HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *DVI and Firewire options (both of which say "disabled" ....grrrr....)
> 
> 
> The IPG now displays an "HD" icon on any programming that is broadcasting in HD.
> 
> 
> But no ESPN2HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I've heard that SA is no longer going to activate the DVI on the 8000 with the release of the 8300.


If your looking to use that, was WOW have the 8300 available?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I've heard that SA is no longer going to activate the DVI on the 8000 with the release of the 8300.
> 
> 
> If your looking to use that, was WOW have the 8300 available?*



I am not sure if WOW is supplying the 8300HD yet... I asked a couple months ago and they said they were not, but you know how smart those CSRs can be...


----------



## jtscherne

Unrelated to HD, but this morning the clocks on my Adelphia digital boxes were at least 5 minutes fast! As far as I can tell, they're ok now...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by jtscherne_
> *Unrelated to HD, but this morning the clocks on my Adelphia digital boxes were at least 5 minutes fast! As far as I can tell, they're ok now...*



I'm not sure how they get their time, my VCR picks it up from WVIZ and I kind of assumed that's how the cable box gets it too.


----------



## Phoenix2088

I sent an e-mail to Cleveland's WB affiliate WBNX asking for information about their HDTV progress. I also asked if legal issues about interference cannot be cleared up in time, is there a plan to send a direct HD feed to cable systems. This is the response I got.




> Quote:
> Yes, our equipment has arrived. They had to build a new room here to house all the new equipment. It is almost done. Hopefully soon they will begin installing our new equipment.



Now I'm not exactley sure if that means OTA equipment or equipment for a direct feed to cable systems. I have e-mailed them back to clarify and will post if I get any more details.


----------



## Inundated

I E-Mailed WBNX about this about three months ago, and received no response. At least they're doing SOMETHING about this, even if it's still kind of early...


----------



## SteveC

Great news. Smallville is one of my favorite shows. I've been watching it in DVD quality on channel 21-2 from Youngstown but HD will be even better. Can't wait.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Great news. Smallville is one of my favorite shows. I've been watching it in DVD quality on channel 21-2 from Youngstown but HD will be even better. Can't wait.*



I don't know if your a cable subscriber or not but Smallville earlier episodes are being shown in HD on HDnet.


In regards to WBNX OK Adelphia....how long is it going to take to get this one?


lol....they arn't broadcasting yet and I'm already complaining.










Here's a legitamate gripe: What's taking so long with WUAB?


----------



## jtscherne

Not specifically HD related:

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsr...052294,00.html 


If I read the news release correctly, it looks like Adelphia in Ohio will go to Time Warner.


----------



## hookbill

I think your correct. All along it would seem like Time Warner was the obvious choice for this area. Although they did say Time Warner and Comcast would be exchanging some services, they specifically mention Ohio to TW.


I've got mixed reactions to this. I really wanted TiVo for the DVR, but I've heard that Comcast customer service is as bad as Adelphia's.


----------



## Inundated

TWC has a good reputation around here, and would certainly be more welcome for me than Adelphia has been. Plus, here in the Akron area, that means they'll be able to open up local programming out of Akron to the rest of the area.


The only surprise for me - which it shouldn't have been - is that Comcast is exiting the market entirely. The Cleveland Comcast system is not really all that big, I believe, and the whole exchanging of existing systems between TWC and Comcast was known before.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Ok finally some good news. After a follow-up e-mail from WBNX, I got this response.



> Quote:
> When we get operational, we will be broadcasting in HD. Hopefully it won't be too much longer. Please be patient.



My guess is the legal issues have been cleared and once the new equipment has been installed they should be ready. Also if you visit their site, under Station Information, the digital channel no longer says not operational. Looks like WBNX in HD is coming soon!


----------



## hookbill

It's proabably a year before Time Warner takes over. Read this: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/21/news/cable.php


----------



## handsworth

I am not sure of when this will happen , but both the SA 8000HD and the 8300 will get a firmware upgrade shortly. Mainly, the boxes will no longer shut down at night.







. Regarding the 8300 specifically. the SATA port will be activated, an enhanced recording menu and supposedly an improvement in analog PQ. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## hookbill

Thanks for the heads up, handsworth.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *My guess is the legal issues have been cleared and once the new equipment has been installed they should be ready. Also if you visit their site, under Station Information, the digital channel no longer says not operational. Looks like WBNX in HD is coming soon!*



I'm curious of the status of their allocation. Last I'd heard, they were still fighting with the FCC over the Canadian issues, and were still claiming that their latest proposal should satisfy those issues. If they're building and hoping to go on soon, that might be a good sign.


I E-Mail them myself and ask them, but they never answer me. Maybe they know I've poked fun at the Rev. Ernest!










Handsworth, thanks for the firmware update news...it's good news. I just wonder if it might be worth it to be to move to the 8300, given such things as better analog PQ. I HATE the PQ on the 8000HD's analog channels, and recorded, they look even worse.


----------



## Inundated

FWIW, the FCC website does not show a granted Construction Permit for WBNX-DT 30. It only shows the only application still in the system, filed way back in 1999!


However, if you click on that application, it shows as being updated in February, 2004, complete with a massive technical exhibit attached as PDF files:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=72958


----------



## Tom in OH

Has anyone heard which digital position WBNX will use for ota? 55?


----------



## Phoenix2088

The PDF attached on the page from the link below shows that WBNX has acted in accordance with Canadian officials but the FCC dropped the ball on this. It is asking the FCC to act quickly to grant permission.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=72958 


WBNX probably knows it will now be approved, which is why the equipment is now there.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Tom in OH_
> *Has anyone heard which digital position WBNX will use for ota? 55?*



Do you mean which channel? If so, it will be 30.


----------



## intermod

WGTE (TOL) is watchable for me on ch 30 on ANY storm free day with

a little tropo. Welcome to the group.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/tropo.html 


Dan




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *The PDF attached on the page from the link below shows that WBNX has acted in accordance with Canadian officials but the FCC dropped the ball on this. It is asking the FCC to act quickly to grant permission.
> 
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=72958
> 
> 
> WBNX probably knows it will now be approved, which is why the equipment is now there.*


----------



## oachalon

If this deal goes through like they said it will then my area would be going from Comcast to Time Warner. Lets hope Time Warner is good because Comcast has been the best cable service we have had. They came in replaced every cable line in our county gave us hsi, more digital cable channels, on demand, and hdtv. My cable has never gone out and has always worked well. We will find out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by oachalon_
> *If this deal goes through like they said it will then my area would be going from Comcast to Time Warner. Lets hope Time Warner is good because Comcast has been the best cable service we have had. They came in replaced every cable line in our county gave us hsi, more digital cable channels, on demand, and hdtv. My cable has never gone out and has always worked well. We will find out.*



Well, that's the first positive thing I've heard about Comcast. Other then the fact that they made the deal with TiVo.


I will say this about Adelphia currently. The cable has never gone out since I've had them. It's their customer service department that I don't like.


That and the fact that I seem to have more knowledge on how their HD-DVR operates then their technicians.


----------



## Inundated

TWC usually seems to have a clue.


I have had Comcast in other areas - Northern California to be specific - and it's been very good as well. And even despite Adelphia's pretty horrid CS, I've had few problems with them...at least recently.


(Hookbill? You brought your avatar over here, too!)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *TWC usually seems to have a clue.
> 
> 
> I have had Comcast in other areas - Northern California to be specific - and it's been very good as well. And even despite Adelphia's pretty horrid CS, I've had few problems with them...at least recently.
> 
> 
> (Hookbill? You brought your avatar over here, too!)*



My "helpful wife" did that. I have removed it as nobody uses it over here.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Maybe this is just a WOW Cable issue, but WEWS's upconvert strech garbage doesn't fill the entire screen. There is about 1 inch on each side that is blank. Does this issue with WEWS also occur OTA, or on other cable systems?


BTW last night WEWS blew it, no Jurassic Park 3 in HD.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Yup, looks like it is time to complain, especially for missing the HD for last night's movie.


----------



## RAS123

Anyone but me feel bummed about this change?


I've been on both TW (Akron / Hudson System) and now on Comcast in Willoughby. Service / performance were about the same.


After a quick look at TW's rates and channel lineup, I feel like I'll be paying more for HD and getting fewer meaningful channels. Comcast doesn't have an "HD Tier" (read: extra charge for these HD channels) and offers Starz HD and Cinemax HD. I already get HDNet & HDNet Movies from Directv and really has all the appeal of InHD 1 & 2 anyway......


----------



## hookbill

I don't think you'll see any reduction in services. I would think most everything should stay the same.


Anyway, it's still going to be about a year and a half before the change occures.


----------



## flatiron

No HD on tonight on Grey's Anatomy. No HD last night on Jurassic Park. No HD on Lost last Wednesday.


There were dropouts off and on on the HD feed earlier this evening before it reverted to SD, so I assume they're having problems. Wonder how long this is going to go on?


----------



## Phoenix2088

I have e-mailed Mr. Stark at WEWS concerning the HD issue and also about their up-converted stretched programming that doesn't fill the entire screen. I will post any information I get.


----------



## Phoenix2088

I received a response in less than an hour, so first I must thank Mr. Stark from WEWS. Here is what he had to say about the HD issues and the weird stretch on non-HD material.



> Quote:
> Thank you for writing. We have had some technical problems in receiving ABC's HD feed due to bad weather. We hope that this issue will be resolved today.
> 
> 
> The stretch question has a lot to do with the type of receiver you are using. Burn-in is only an issue with CRT and plasma sets and then only with constant viewing of the same signal. We purposely kept a slight margin on the stretched programming to keep the "stretch" less noticeable but we will revisit it. Under normal viewing conditions this should not present a problem and certainly would be no greater a problem than for the stations that do not use a stretch in upconversion.



I e-mailed Mr. Stark back trying to convince him to either do a full stretch or no stretch at all. Maybe it is just me who doesn't like WEWS's current method for stretching, so if I can just get a show of hands, would you prefer WEWS to keep their non-HD material the way it is now which is a "slight" stretch, a full stretch, or no stretch at all? I will let Mr. Stark know.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *Maybe this is just a WOW Cable issue*



Glad to see another Wide Open Wester here. I was beginning to think I was the only WOW customer in the Cleveland metro area










Do you have the SA8000HD DVR? If so, do you know what size hard drive you have? I was an early adopter and got the 80GB model -- just wondering what they are giving customers now.


Re WEWS: I say leave it as full stretch, since this is what I've become used to on the the 16:9 plasma. If they are trying to "help people out" and make it look less stretched, then don't stretch at all and let us use our "just" or "stadium" mode on our TV's which does a better job stretching IMHO.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *
> 
> I e-mailed Mr. Stark back trying to convince him to either do a full stretch or no stretch at all. Maybe it is just me who doesn't like WEWS's current method for stretching, so if I can just get a show of hands, would you prefer WEWS to keep their non-HD material the way it is now which is a "slight" stretch, a full stretch, or no stretch at all? I will let Mr. Stark know.*



I'd like to vote for a ban on all non-HD material.... ^_^


Having all HD might solve the stretch issue but if someone asked, I'd vote for a quality full stretch(the same way most HDTVs handle 480i).


Nice work Phoenix2088.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Do you have the SA8000HD DVR? If so, do you know what size hard drive you have? I was an early adopter and got the 80GB model -- just wondering what they are giving customers now.*



I have the SA 3250 HD, non-DVR. As far as DVR's go, WOW is now also giving out the 160 GB model and I think if you go up to the WOW office (I believe in North Royalton) you can swap out boxes.


----------



## Inundated

Picked this up on one of my forums. I'm nowhere near my OTA tuner right now, but has this monstrosity showed up on WUAB-DT or WOIO-DT yet?



> Quote:
> Today (4/25), RAYCOM MEDIA launched a new 24 hour music television network THE TUBE MUSIC NETWORK, in more than 10% of the total US households in 29 markets including CINCINNATI, CLEVELAND, MEMPHIS, ALBUQUERQUE and ALBANY.
> 
> 
> THE TUBE MUSIC NETWORK is led by MTV/VH-1, and THE BOX pioneer LES GARLAND, who explained, "THE TUBE features the best artists, the best songs and the best images of all time. Our programming cuts through today's digitized, instant-replay, on-demand, multi-channeled, video-gamed, TIVO world because of the magnetically pure, on-target, music strategy we've developed."
> 
> 
> RAYCOM MEDIA CEO PAUL McTEAR said, "RAYCOM's broad national reach, encompassing affiliates of FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, UPN, and WB, will provide local viewers capable of receiving new digital television signals the most innovative offering of music programming in more than two decades."



EDIT: I'm not sure if this launched today...another source says it would launch "in the second quarter". It's apparently already testing in West Palm Beach, FL.


----------



## paule123

I just noticed Wide Open West now has WKYC's Weather Plus on channel 130, just below the HD tier in the 200's.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Picked this up on one of my forums. I'm nowhere near my OTA tuner right now, but has this monstrosity showed up on WUAB-DT or WOIO-DT yet?*



I just did a rescan on my OTA box and nothing new is showing up. This is terrible news for CBS fans. There goes the pristine CBS PQ. I really have to wonder why they would ruin an excellent HD product for yet another music channel nobody is going to watch. Maybe they will choose to mutilate WUAB and leave WOIO alone. That would be my preference...



Looks like PSIP info for WEWS is bad - after the rescan I'm getting "15.1" on my box for ABC.


----------



## flatiron

My guess is that it would be on WUAB.


I noticed on my FusionHD recording of last Friday's "Enterprise" that the file size was no more than 6.5GB per hour, much smaller than previous "Enterprise" recordings from WUAB which ran about 7.8-8.0 GB/hr. I suspect that they are already reserving bandwidth for this new subchannel (hence the smaller HD files), even if they aren't broadcasting it yet. As a point of reference, recordings from WKYC-HD come out to around 5.9-6.0GB/hr.


EDIT: Tonight's NCIS came in at over 8GB/hr, so there is no bandwidth reduction on WOIO, at least not yet.


----------



## Inundated

I'd guess WUAB as well, and it looks like flatiron has nailed it.


I'm glad they apparently aren't gonna drop it on WOIO!


----------



## Phoenix2088

WUAB doesn't have any interesting HD programs IMO. It really is a shame that they didn't carry the Cavs games in HD, then again Cleveland sport teams are second rate.


----------



## Ben Music

Comcast News Flash:


My Comcast tech insider told me today that if all goes well, we may have TNTHD added to our HD lineup by the end of this week. Just thought you would like to know.


Ben Music


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Ben Music_
> *Comcast News Flash:
> 
> 
> My Comcast tech insider told me today that if all goes well, we may have TNTHD added to our HD lineup by the end of this week. Just thought you would like to know.
> 
> 
> Ben Music*



Someone posted this on the HDTV Programming board a while back...apparently Comcast has come to a systemwide deal with TNT for TNTHD. Glad to see it's filtering down so quickly, tho!


Since we're on the topic of Comcast...what part of this area do they serve? Adelphia, I presume is mostly the city and west side...I thought Cox was on the east side.


Of course, both the Adelphia system and the Cleveland area Comcast systems will be part of TWC in a year or so.


----------



## Italians

Is there any news for DISH having their locals in HD?? I live in North Olmsted and have an antenna in my attic (was there when we bought the house so i'm guessing it's been there a long time) with the old wires leading to where my TV is. I used a converter to get the old wiring to match up with my coax, and was getting 5, 8 and 43 in HD but that was it. I have a DISH 811. I bought a Terk HDTVi and hooked it up last night putting it on a box behind my TV and got only 8 and 43 in HD...sigh...so I'm wondering if the old wiring for the old antenna might be an issue or what the best plan of action would be at this point...WHICH leads me back to my first question...is DISH going to have locals in HD anytime soon? I guess i've asked too many questions, but i sure do love that HD and want EVERYTHING in HD!!!









Thanks for any help...this forum rocks!!!


----------



## Tom in OH

Hey Italians,

that's good news you're getting something with your old antenna. I'd make sure all the connections are clean & tight and while keeping a close eye on your ota meter, start tweaking the position either right or left a tiny amt(1 cm). just to see if you can increase signal strength and maybe pull in 3 & 10.


Terk has great multiswitches but others report the same poor results with Terk's HD antennas.


Also, make sure your antenna is designed for both UHF(5,8,43) & VHF(3,10).


Let us know and welcome.


----------



## Italians

Tom,

Could the old wiring be an issue?? I was thinking it might have something to do with it but not sure...but then when the indoor one didn't really pull too much I was thinking my location might not be good.

My next thought was to put the indoor antenna in the attic and running all coax to the bac of my receiver. any thoughts on that?!!?

Thanks again.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *I live in North Olmsted and have an antenna in my attic (was there when we bought the house so i'm guessing it's been there a long time) with the old wires leading to where my TV is. I used a converter to get the old wiring to match up with my coax, and was getting 5, 8 and 43 in HD but that was it.*



I am guessing you have old 300-ohm twin lead coming from the antenna. (it's a flat looking cable with two wire "bumps") You want to get rid of that and go with RG/6 75 ohm coax from the antenna to the back of the receiver. Buy a 300-75 ohm transformer (aka "balun") from Radio Shack to put on the wing nuts on the antenna side.


Make sure you buy RG/6 coax and not RG/59 !!


Return the Terk to the store for a refund. Even though it looks a lot like the famed "Silver Sensor", the reports I have read say it's a poor performer.


Edit: after all of this, don't be surprised if you still cannot get WKYC (NBC 3.1), it's on a low-VHF frequency and a big problem to receive reliably.


-- Paul


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *...is DISH going to have locals in HD anytime soon?*



They will have to convert to MPEG4 first before that is a possibility. Ergen said in one of his Charlie Chats that MPEG4 would not start before the end of 2005. DirecTV is launching a new bird soon to support this. They are planning to offer HD locals for the top 12 markets this summer. Since the Cleveland market is not in that group, it might be late 2006 or 2007 before they are available. In both cases though, the current receivers are not capable of handling MPEG4 so you will need to get a new receiver to be able to get any new HD channels.

Steve


----------



## Italians

Yo Paule...thank you very very much! I am going to go to Radio Shack very soon to look for this stuff. I guess I will send the antenna back to Amazon after I try one more reposition. Bummer about channel 3 with the NFL coming to NBC this fall....I hope they do something about their weak signal before that!

Steve...glad to see my receiver should be ok for the next couple of years!! Thanks for the info on Dish.


----------



## Inundated

Yeah, the first thing to do is return the Terk antenna, definitely. They have only one antenna that's worth the materials it's built with...and it's a more expensive rebranding of an antenna available elsewhere for $50 less.


Re: D* and Cleveland market locals in HD - it won't be late 2006 or 2007. Last I heard, they'll do the top-12 markets soon (like summer), and the next batch, top 50 or so (including Cleveland) would likely be by about the end of 2005 or early 2006.


----------



## Phoenix2088

I just got an e-mail from the station manager at WBNX and now it seems a digital broadcast is not too likely in the near future. I guess the response I recieved earlier about HD equipment was either not true or for a direct feed to cable companies which is hinted at in the e-mail.



> Quote:
> We've been working on interference issues in Canada however a construction permit for our digital facility has not been issued, unfortunately we will not be broadcasting in digital prior to the 05-06 season.
> 
> 
> HD carriage will be a major issue when we begin negotiations with the cable companies for must carriage a little later in the year. How we get it to them will factor into that discussion. Appreciate your patience.


----------



## Rbuchina

While surfing last night I noticed my Mentor Comcast added TNTHD. I'm not a big basketball fan but I did stop and watch some the game. They really push the bass up on the 5.1 audio.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

While looking for a news program this morning I noticed FOX 8 on Adelphia in HD was gray. OTA people, are you receiving a signal?


----------



## Inundated

I'm getting FOX 8 fine both on my OTA box and on Adelphia 708...


----------



## Italians

After a reposition of my Terk antenna behind the tv, I pulled in 19, but not reliably and not all the time. With that same antenna, I also got a signal on WKYC but it came in on channel 2. On my DISH box 811, channel 2 is reserved for the inputs on the back of the receiver so I'm not sure how to get it to show up. Any help with that would be appreciated...but i am going to try to put the Terk up in the attic and compare the reception with that of the old antenna to see which pulls a signal better. Of course, my wife isn't too excited about me punching holes in the house...and i don't blame her!!!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *.but i am going to try to put the Terk up in the attic and compare the reception with that of the old antenna to see which pulls a signal better. Of course, my wife isn't too excited about me punching holes in the house...and i don't blame her!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Isn't it fun? Most of us have been thru this. Installing, tweaking, repositioning, drilling holes, reassuring the better half and then wondering if a tiny tweak to the right or left will help some more.


WKYC is on digital channel 2. Does your 811 receive analog ota signals also? There might be a mixup between analog 3(NBC) and digital 2. Tell us more about what u mean about the inputs being assigned to channel 2.


----------



## Italians

Tom,

ok...i'll try....lol...there are INPUTS in the back of my receiver for things like a VCR or a DVD player so most of your stuff can go directly through the receiver instead of using inputs on your TV. so lets say i have my VCR's outputs in my receiver's INPUTS, i could tune the receiver to channel 2 and watch the VCR ...hope that helps!!

Yeah...the things we do for a pretty picture huh??


----------



## Tom in OH

Oh ok, that's a nice feature for simplicity. When you're tuning in WKYC (digital channel 2) make sure you're not tuning in analog 3. For example, the Zenith 520 has an analog and digital tuner. The digital version comes in on channel (3-1) The SD analog version is (3). Maybe this doesn't apply, just wanted to make sure. What happens if u tune your 811 to 3-1?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *Tom,
> 
> ok...i'll try....lol...there are INPUTS in the back of my receiver for things like a VCR or a DVD player so most of your stuff can go directly through the receiver instead of using inputs on your TV. so lets say i have my VCR's outputs in my receiver's INPUTS, i could tune the receiver to channel 2 and watch the VCR ...hope that helps!!
> 
> Yeah...the things we do for a pretty picture huh??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



In Chapter 3 of the 811 manual, "Using the program guide", it talks about how the A/V inputs on the back can be viewed as sub channels of channel 1. It says select channel 1 from the guide and select either input 1 or 2.


When u set up the receiver for local digital ota, did all the local HD channels show up in the guide?


----------



## stuart628

just so everyone is aware, or maybe not aware, TNTHD is down on my system here in mogadore, dont know how far this problem is spread but appears that TIME warner is fixing it! dont know how long it will be though


----------



## Italians

Tom, thanks for the ideas. I broke down and called D* last night and got a knowledgable (believe it or not) rep on the phone and he helped me with the issue. you have to set up the receiver not to pull in the dish locals just the ota locals and then it works...so even though i was pulling a 49% signals strength i couldn't get 3 to show up...or 19 for that matter. more playing with the antenna is needed i'm guessing. thanks again for your help!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *Tom, thanks for the ideas. I broke down and called D* last night and got a knowledgable (believe it or not) rep on the phone and he helped me with the issue. you have to set up the receiver not to pull in the dish locals just the ota locals and then it works...so even though i was pulling a 49% signals strength i couldn't get 3 to show up...or 19 for that matter. more playing with the antenna is needed i'm guessing. thanks again for your help!*



I've always thought Direct TV's reps are light years ahead of any cables. I'm not surprised you got some help.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *Tom, thanks for the ideas. I broke down and called D* last night...*



I thought you said you had a Dish Network 811 box. Why would you call DirecTV for help? They must be really good if they will help with a competitors box.


----------



## Italians

sorry guys...yeah i called Dish not Direct...and they were extremely helpful with the issue. He guaged pretty quickly that i knew what i was doing (sort of) and understood the concept of HD so he didn't do the step by step thing with me and I appreciated that.


----------



## hookbill

As hansworth predicted, my 8300 had a reboot last night and was upgraded to SARA 1.87.16.1. I have not fooled around with it much to see what the upgrades include.


----------



## Inundated

I forget how to check, but my SA8000 also definitely got an update.


When you change between "Normal/Zoom/Squeeze", it now shows the output resolution on that line. And any shows tagged as HD in the guide now show a BIG "HD" logo on the left hand side of the show's info bar.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I forget how to check, but my SA8000 also definitely got an update.
> 
> 
> When you change between "Normal/Zoom/Squeeze", it now shows the output resolution on that line. And any shows tagged as HD in the guide now show a BIG "HD" logo on the left hand side of the show's info bar.*



Press and hold select until the mailbox flashes. Then push info. That takes you to the diagnostic screen.


Yes, your right about the HD logo, however as far as the output resolution are you referring to 720p etc.? It's always done that.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Press and hold select until the mailbox flashes. Then push info. That takes you to the diagnostic screen.*



It looks like the SARA version is identical: 1.87.16.1. They must have standardized the version numbers across the 8000/8300 platforms.


The thing I'm talking about is when you press the # on the remote to change between normal, zoom and squeeze modes. As of this update, it now displays the output resolution of the box next to those words ("Normal 480i" in my case) onscreen. It didn't start doing that until this software update...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *It looks like the SARA version is identical: 1.87.16.1. They must have standardized the version numbers across the 8000/8300 platforms.
> 
> 
> The thing I'm talking about is when you press the # on the remote to change between normal, zoom and squeeze modes. As of this update, it now displays the output resolution of the box next to those words ("Normal 480i" in my case) onscreen. It didn't start doing that until this software update...*



Yes, that's what handsworth said. Same version for both models.


I had an update a few months ago and that's when I first noticed the displays. They probably just got you caught up with the 8300 users on that feature.


----------



## Inundated

I'll have to go back and find that message about the update... and find out what 8000 users got out of it...


If handsworth is still around...any rumblings about TNT-HD or Universal HD, or whatever else was supposedly on the table at some point? And is all this stuff gonna get added before Adelphia becomes TWC in a few months to a year?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *I'll have to go back and find that message about the update... and find out what 8000 users got out of it...
> 
> 
> If handsworth is still around...any rumblings about TNT-HD or Universal HD, or whatever else was supposedly on the table at some point? And is all this stuff gonna get added before Adelphia becomes TWC in a few months to a year?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That's just it, I don't think you got that update. I think that was 8300 users only.


I left the rest of your quote there to see if handsworth responds.










Not that I'm greedy or anything.........


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *That's just it, I don't think you got that update. I think that was 8300 users only.*



We got whatever update they pushed out to 8000 users to bring it up to the same version number as your 8300. Presumably, the updates/feature set are different, even if they're keeping the same version numbers. I got my 8000 update a couple of nights ago.


Someone on another board here says the 8300 has better SD quality and faster channel changing...that alone might make it worth a switch for me.


The "live" SD quality isn't awful on the 8000, but the recorded SD quality bites, especially on Adelphia's already notoriously bad analog channels.


And yes, we'll leave that quote up, in case handsworth wishes to address it


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *We got whatever update they pushed out to 8000 users to bring it up to the same version number as your 8300. Presumably, the updates/feature set are different, even if they're keeping the same version numbers. I got my 8000 update a couple of nights ago.
> 
> 
> Someone on another board here says the 8300 has better SD quality and faster channel changing...that alone might make it worth a switch for me.
> 
> 
> The "live" SD quality isn't awful on the 8000, but the recorded SD quality bites, especially on Adelphia's already notoriously bad analog channels.
> 
> 
> And yes, we'll leave that quote up, in case handsworth wishes to address it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I wasn't talking about the one that gave us the same version. I was talking about another update previously. Yes, the update we got last night gave us the same versions. But I believe that the 8300's got an update a couple of months ago that fixed a problem with fast fowarding freezing and also gave us those graphics you talked about seeing for the first time.


Are we on the same page now?


----------



## Phoenix2088

Just noticed this, hopefully it is just not me. I was watching American Idol, and the FOX logo was some what cut off at the bottom. I don't believe this is an issue with my TV, and was wondering if anyone else saw the same thing? All other HD programming on FOX has an affiliate bug, except AI, which shows up in the correct spot.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I wasn't talking about the one that gave us the same version. I was talking about another update previously. Yes, the update we got last night gave us the same versions. But I believe that the 8300's got an update a couple of months ago that fixed a problem with fast fowarding freezing and also gave us those graphics you talked about seeing for the first time.
> 
> 
> Are we on the same page now?*



Oh, OK. I think so. I'm still not sure I wanna swap to the 8300, though. I might hold out with the 8000 until they somehow get a non-SARA box. I HATE SARA!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *Just noticed this, hopefully it is just not me. I was watching American Idol, and the FOX logo was some what cut off at the bottom. I don't believe this is an issue with my TV, and was wondering if anyone else saw the same thing? All other HD programming on FOX has an affiliate bug, except AI, which shows up in the correct spot.*



There's actually a thread about this in HDTV Programming.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=536677 


Well, maybe not this EXACT problem (about being cut off)...I don't really watch AI so I don't know. But FOX apparently puts up a generic network bug ONLY on that show.


----------



## hookbill

FYI, I'm getting on another thread from a beta tester that the upgrade will help stabalize video and audio glitches. I noticed tonight everything I watched was perfect. Well, I didn't really notice it until after I was informed about what the upgrade did then I thought back and said, yeah, everything was smooth tonight.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Oh, OK. I think so. I'm still not sure I wanna swap to the 8300, though. I might hold out with the 8000 until they somehow get a non-SARA box. I HATE SARA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well, the chances of that happening are slim and none now. With TWC taking over they will stay with the 8300 and SARA. Keep in mind you have to use what is compatible with the cable system and Pasport software must not be compatible to Adelphia.


One of the issues is the first run flag, and my understanding is that the first run flag is included with this current software, but the IPG needs to be changed to indicate first run/repeat. If they upgrade the IPG it would be a big help to the 8300/8000.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *FYI, I'm getting on another thread from a beta tester that the upgrade will help stabalize video and audio glitches. I noticed tonight everything I watched was perfect. Well, I didn't really notice it until after I was informed about what the upgrade did then I thought back and said, yeah, everything was smooth tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



We got this upgrade (on WOW) a couple weeks ago and I'm not happy with passthrough mode on SA8000HD. It takes an agonizingly long time for the box to change from 720p to 1080i when I jump around the HD channel block in the 200's. Screen goes black, audio stutters, and it sits and "thinks" with a black screen for a few seconds before the next channel kicks in. I may go back to permanent 1080i mode even though the analog 480i stuff is not as good in that mode.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, the chances of that happening are slim and none now. With TWC taking over they will stay with the 8300 and SARA. Keep in mind you have to use what is compatible with the cable system and Pasport software must not be compatible to Adelphia.*



Does TWC use other boxes than SA? Because I could have sworn that my sister's HD box, on TWC, is made by Pioneer.


Wait, let me check...yes, it is a Pioneer, because I have my Pocket PC's remote control program set up to control it.







It's not a DVR, just a straight HD box, though.


Anyway, I also don't know what'll happen to the system when TWC takes over...if they'll physically take over the Cleveland Adelphia headend and use that, or if they'll run it on the same standards as Akron/Canton... I'll have to talk to my relative at TWC about that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *We got this upgrade (on WOW) a couple weeks ago and I'm not happy with passthrough mode on SA8000HD. It takes an agonizingly long time for the box to change from 720p to 1080i when I jump around the HD channel block in the 200's. Screen goes black, audio stutters, and it sits and "thinks" with a black screen for a few seconds before the next channel kicks in. I may go back to permanent 1080i mode even though the analog 480i stuff is not as good in that mode.*



Are you sure it's the same software version as mentioned above? You may want to check your diagnostic screen.


If it is, does WOW have the 8300? If they do, get one of those.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Are you sure it's the same software version as mentioned above? You may want to check your diagnostic screen.
> 
> 
> If it is, does WOW have the 8300? If they do, get one of those.*



It's definitely SARA 1.87.16.1. I knew the change took place because I started seeing the HD bug. There's also a bunch of new screens in diagnostics related to firewire, copy protection, and external HDD storage, although those features are not implemented on the 8000. I beleive with this software release, those of you with an 8300 should be able to add an external SATA drive for more DVR space.


I dunno if WOW is shipping the 8300 yet, I'll have to ask. I actually think I did ask but forgot what the answer was.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *It's definitely SARA 1.87.16.1. I knew the change took place because I started seeing the HD bug. There's also a bunch of new screens in diagnostics related to firewire, copy protection, and external HDD storage, although those features are not implemented on the 8000. I beleive with this software release, those of you with an 8300 should be able to add an external SATA drive for more DVR space.
> *



Wow, I forgot about that part of it, your right it was suppose to activate external SATA drive, and my disk is 72% full now (sweeps).


Does anyone know what I need to hook that up? I want to know what kind of wire connection and any limitations on the SATA drive.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Wow, I forgot about that part of it, your right it was suppose to activate external SATA drive, and my disk is 72% full now (sweeps).
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what I need to hook that up? I want to know what kind of wire connection and any limitations on the SATA drive.*



I would do a search for one of the "official" SA8300HD threads for really in-depth technical info from people who have been playing with this. Actually I remember seeing a thread dedicated to SATA drive on the SA8300HD. As I recall one user just went out and bought an off the shelf Maxtor external SATA drive and it worked. I could be mistaken, but one problem is your recordings can be split across both internal and external drives, so you can't just unplug the drive and use if for something else without screwing up *all* the recordings including the ones on the internal drive. I think the 8300 wants to format the drives as one big partition -- you might even lose your existing shows on the internal drive when you plug it in. Again, check the thread on that, I could be wrong.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *I would do a search for one of the "official" SA8300HD threads for really in-depth technical info from people who have been playing with this. Actually I remember seeing a thread dedicated to SATA drive on the SA8300HD. As I recall one user just went out and bought an off the shelf Maxtor external SATA drive and it worked. I could be mistaken, but one problem is your recordings can be split across both internal and external drives, so you can't just unplug the drive and use if for something else without screwing up *all* the recordings including the ones on the internal drive. I think the 8300 wants to format the drives as one big partition -- you might even lose your existing shows on the internal drive when you plug it in. Again, check the thread on that, I could be wrong.*



Geeze, wouldn't want that to happen. I've already asked some questions on another thread and I see there is a response. I'll check there and if I don't get answers I'll search for the SATA thread. Thanks.


----------



## intermod

WXYZ-DT Detroit (remaps from channel 41 to 7-1,2,3) ABC

7-1 is the main w/ DD 2.0

7-2 is Detroit radar/no audio

7-3 is tower cam/no audio

My Yagi is pointing 314 degs. I saw the sig strenght indicater hit 70 for a few

seconds (which is about as high as it ever goes). As a comparison ch15-1 accross the street only comes in at 64. WXYZ is 115 mi. from the

house.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Geeze, wouldn't want that to happen. I've already asked some questions on another thread and I see there is a response. I'll check there and if I don't get answers I'll search for the SATA thread. Thanks.*



The forum search function seems seriously broken, but I found it referenced in another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=516559


----------



## hookbill

Yep, someone got that one to me and I've forwarded to my computer genius wife to figure out. Thanks Paule123


----------



## hookbill

I just heard on WOIO that the government has set a date of December 31, 2006 at midnight as the end of analog broadcasting. All stations should be digital by then.


----------



## Dweezilz

Wow, that is unreal news. I know that it was the original plan, but for years everyone said it would never happen by that date. That means that ALL standard TV's will no longer be able to receive local channels without a digital converter box. Not that I don't believe what you saw, but they are saying that in 18 months, people who don't have cable or digital TV's with a digital tuner, will be forced to buy a new TV or a converter box? Certainly it doesn't seem like things have progressed that quickly.


Seems a bit soon considering the slow start that digital / HDTV had. I'd love to hear an 'offical' source on this one. I'd think it's far more reasonable to think that the date specified is when all stations must have their digital broadcasts live as opposed to when they must turn off their analog. The date for that was already supposed to have happened, but was postponed indefinately for many smaller markets. It would be strange they would just skip that step in the process.


-Todd


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I just heard on WOIO that the government has set a date of December 31, 2006 at midnight as the end of analog broadcasting. All stations should be digital by then.*



If I saw it on "19 Action News", I'd get two confirmations from elsewhere.










Seriously, if that were the case, there'd be at least two threads on "HDTV Programming" here on AVSForum. The closest I can find is this one started yesterday...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=536655 


I'll scout around and see if I can find more. Sometimes 19 puts related AP stories on their website...


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *I just heard on WOIO that the government has set a date of December 31, 2006 at midnight as the end of analog broadcasting. All stations should be digital by then.*




That is a proposal by a group of senators. It hasn't been enacted yet.


----------



## Dweezilz

Ok...that makes more sense. It doesn't effect me, but if I were voting, I'd say delay it until all markets have their digital towers up & working for at least a year. Plus, I'm sure it will be difficult to come up with cheap solutions for those using OTA analog for their TV in such a short time period. People won't pay $100 for a converter box & if they don't want cable, they are screwed. The converter box needs to be under $30 I'd say to be realistic for many people. Keep in mind those that have only analog OTA channels are probably those that don't want to spend much on TV. They may have to go without if analog is shut off too soon.


-T


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *If I saw it on "19 Action News", I'd get two confirmations from elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Well, I admit they seem to run at the mouth a bit.







Your absolutly right I shouldn't take anything they say without double checking.


Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *People won't pay $100 for a converter box & if they don't want cable, they are screwed. The converter box needs to be under $30 I'd say to be realistic for many people.
> 
> -T*



This is exactly my thought on why they won't shut analog off for quite a while, certainly not in '06/'07. As the impending doom nears, I'm sure we'll see a great debate as congressmen propose government subsidized converter boxes for the "disenfranchised" Or perhaps free basic cable for those under a certain income level. Or better yet, a subsidy for the broadcasters to keep running those expensive analog transmitters. It should be interesting.


Let's put all this social security talk on hold and make sure people can watch TV !!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by paule123_
> *Let's put all this social security talk on hold and make sure people can watch TV !!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Yes, let's make sure our prioritys are correct.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, I admit they seem to run at the mouth a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your absolutly right I shouldn't take anything they say without double checking.
> 
> 
> Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit.*



Last Sunday night, 19 ran a continuous crawl about construction on I-77, between 480 and 490, not being done until 6 AM Monday.


I saw this after I saw video on Channel 5, showing the re-opened I-77...which had been since about 7 PM that evening.


If "19 Action News" reported that the sun would rise in the morning, I'd check 3, 5 and 8 first.










Actually, as far as this "early analog shutoff" proposal, there already HAS been debate about subsidizing converter boxes. I wish I could make stuff like this up, but I'm not making it up (thank you, Dave Barry). They're so eager to shut down the analog TV spectrum - and sell the rights to "advanced data services" companies for billions - that they're weighing how much money to spend to buy TV converter boxes! Oy vey.


----------



## hookbill

But don't forget they are fair, reliable, and evrywhere.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *But don't forget they are fair, reliable, and evrywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



My favorite is when the anchor makes a big deal about leading into it...


Anchor: "19 Action News is..."

(pause)

(pause)

(someone in the control room finally gets the tape started)

Female Whisper: "everywhere..."


This actually happened the other day.











And don't get me started about their "Money List" promotion this week. You, too, can try to get sweeps ratings by running the STATE OF OHIO'S UNCLAIMED MONEY LIST on your crawl, and make it sound like you're giving the money away! Lamest. Sweeps. Stunt. Ever.


I occasionally watch, by the way, but solely for the entertainment value.


----------



## gass

Although the coveted ratings demograghic is 18 - 49; ch-19 has decided to go for 10 - 19.


They WIN!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *But don't forget they are fair, reliable, and evrywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



No, I got it wrong. I'ts : "Honest, Fair.....Everywair"


And of course FOX news is "Fair and Balanced"......you have to lean to the right to straighten out the picture.


----------



## PPS

I haven't been able to receive 5.1 OTA for a while now. I punch it in and get a blank screen or a weak signal reading. My signal meter on the other hand shows it at 82.

I also tried punching in 5.2, 5.3 and 15 with no luck.

Have they ever returned the HD signal to the air after the 4/25 problem they had?


----------



## Lyle O

PPS

What receiver are you using? I have been having the same problem (Dish 6000). I haven't been able to receive digital 5 for a few weeks. I tried re-scanning and 15-1 shows up (it doesn't remap it to 5-01 like it used to). When I choose 15-1, the receiver shows a signal strength, pauses and then shows no picture. They must have changes something.

Jeff


----------



## paule123

I rescanned a week or two ago looking for that new WUAB music channel on 43. At that time the receiver mapped WEWS to 15-1. It's coming in fine here OTA. I have a Samsung SIR-T165 receiver. Maybe your receivers are more sensitive to incorrect PSIP information or something...


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by PPS_
> *I haven't been able to receive 5.1 OTA for a while now. I punch it in and get a blank screen or a weak signal reading. My signal meter on the other hand shows it at 82.
> 
> I also tried punching in 5.2, 5.3 and 15 with no luck.
> 
> Have they ever returned the HD signal to the air after the 4/25 problem they had?*




Try 15-1 It is on the air right now but thier PSIP is screwedup in that

it does not remap to 5-1 good luck.


Dan


----------



## Inundated

Same thing happened to me when I tried rescanning...WEWS-DT showed up at 15-1. The earlier entry stayed in my program guide (5-1), and 5-1 has no picture...15-1 does.


----------



## vinyal




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by intermod_
> *Try 15-1 It is on the air right now but thier PSIP is screwedup in that
> 
> it does not remap to 5-1 good luck.
> 
> 
> Dan*




I am having similar problems with ABC. It maps to 15.1 on my Disn 921 receiver. My new 942 refuses to recognize the channel altogether. Does any one has similar problems in receiving ABC with Dish 942 receiver.

What does PSIP mean anyway?


Vivek


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by vinyal_
> *What does PSIP mean anyway?*



"Program and System Information Protocol" - it basically is a packet of data that the station transmits that tells your receiver what digital subchannels are available and (I assume) what channel the analog equivalent station can be found on.


Note one of the bullet points on this page:
http://www.psip.org/psip_reasons.html 

"Some receivers may not work correctly if you don't do PSIP right"


If we all chip in, we can buy the book on PSIP and send it to WEWS engineering, LOL.


----------



## Italians

I have a DISH 811 and it also comes in on 15.1, and usually (80%) the info is there and accurate...the problems i have with the info is on channels 50.1 and 50.2...but again for some reason i get these channels in crystal clear with my OTA, but cannot pull in 3, 19 or 25. Go figure....


----------



## Tom in OH

Don't feel bad Italians, most of us have trouble with those channels. I used to get 50-1 with no prob a few months ago but now it's a no go. It never showed up in the guide. I had to punch it in.


Just noticed abc is coming in on both 5-1 and 15-1(but signal is blocky).


----------



## Italians

Is the issue with 3 and 19 related to location or their signal?? Anyone know? I get 49% on both but just cannot pull them in.....


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *Is the issue with 3 and 19 related to location or their signal?? Anyone know? I get 49% on both but just cannot pull them in.....*



3 is always going to be a problem until they move off that low-VHF frequency (the HD channel is actually channel 2). But they won't be moving for 2 or more years from now.


Personally, I don't have a problem with 19 as long as I keep the antenna up high on the 3rd floor of the house.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah NBC & CBS are definately the two weakest for me too. I usually get WOIO though but sometimes it'll break up. WKYC is very low signal strength (60-73), but usually pops in & stays. I can't get 50.1 at all...never have.


----------



## Inundated

WOIO's DT allocation is also on VHF, like WKYC-DT 2, but it's 10...high VHF. In theory, that should be somewhat easier to pick up than 2.


If you don't have a VHF antenna at ALL in your system, it could explain the problem. Though, it's my understanding that even a decent UHF antenna could probably get a high VHF if it's strong enough.


----------



## Italians

So here's a question...if I have an antenna in my attic (one of the big ones that was there when we bought the house) is that both a VHF and UHF antenna or does it depend on the model of the antenna?? It's pretty big, and that's all i know about the antenna.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yes, not all antennas are created equal. Some are better than others, some are UHF only & some both. Usually the big 'yagi' type antennas are quite good (although big) & are usually both UHF & VHF. Sounds like that's what you have although without seeing it or knowing the model # it's hard to say for sure. One thing about channel 10 (CBS). Even though it's higher in the VHF band, it conflicts with another channel 10 coming from Detroit or Canada (can't recall which) thus it tends to have some breakup issues for some people. Some have said it's because WOIO must keep their power output down as to not cause a problem for the other channel & others say it's the power of the other channel that is causing the issues. I don't know which it is, but if the channel signal seems strong, yet on some days it has a few breakups each hour, that is the reason. It's not often that this happens for me, but it does happen. My signal strength will be low 80's & it'll freeze & pixelate a few times in an hour show, while NBC will be in the high 60's to low 70's & once it locks in, it's fine.


Either way, I have Adelphia as well, so I watch those channels on cable most of the time now.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *So here's a question...if I have an antenna in my attic (one of the big ones that was there when we bought the house) is that both a VHF and UHF antenna or does it depend on the model of the antenna?? It's pretty big, and that's all i know about the antenna.*



You've probably got plenty of antenna, but the problem is your roof is going to block a lot of signal. I tried the big-antenna-in-the-attic when I started playing with HD and it just didn't work for me. Once you move the antenna outside it makes a big difference.


Now I have a small tabletop silver sensor UHF-only antenna sitting in a 3rd floor window facing Parma, and it works fine for me -- I get all the locals including WKYC. (I don't get WVIZ-DT PBS, but they are still at low power...)


----------



## cornstalkk

I just wanted to pipe in in reference to the questions about the Dish 942 a couple posts back. I have a Winegard HD7082 gigantic rake on my roof in which all digital channels are at about 89-97% signal strength (other than WVIZ-DT which I barely get at 50% (which I understand due to their low power they are running at). WEWS-DT WILL NOT REGISTER AT ALL. Not even 1% (and according to the CEA chart, they are in the 'Yellow' zone. I get WOIO-DT which is in the 'Blue' zone at which I get 96% - so I know it is NOT the antenna) . I have a feeling that it may be a PSIP issue and the 942 OTA.


----------



## Dweezilz

My Dish 811 has WEWS locked & coming in strong, still mapping to 5.1 (actual channel is 15.1). I won't run the scan for at this point as I don't want to lose it if there is a problem!


----------



## cornstalkk

So out of curiosity, is the frequency for WEWS-DT at 5 or 15 or both?? When I do a scan, should I try 5? Or will it always be at '15'? I am new at this whole OTA/Digital stuff, so please bear with my naivity.


----------



## paule123

WEWS-DT is on channel 15. (note the -DT designation for digital)


The traditional call letters WEWS (without the -DT) will be on channel 5 until someday the FCC decides to let the broadcasters turn that off.


Think of them as two separate stations that just happen to be showing the same TV shows.


I think it depends on the receiver whether you can punch in 15 on the remote and get WEWS-DT directly. It sounds like some receivers make you punch "5" for the analog channel first, then make you hit the channel up button for 5.1 to get the DT signal (which the receiver knows is on 15 because it learned that during the channel scan setup process)


----------



## Dweezilz

I can't recall how the re-mapping works. On my original Dish 6000, for a long time, the channels showed up as the actual frequency such as 31.1, 10.1, 15.1, 2.1, etc... The same goes for the old DTC-100 I had. Then at some point, one or two started showing up as the analog number with .1 on the end (such as 5.1 or 19.1). I'm assuming it's something the station is encoding in the signal to do that since a software update would have done so for all channels if that was the case. I think when I 1st got the 811, it had most but not all mapped to the analog number plus .1 on the end. Of course by going to 5.1, it took me directly to the digital version, not 5 analog.


Now all the channels are mapped to their analog plus the .1. When analog goes away totally (who knows when), they'll obviously have to change it to the actual frequency again since the other numbers will not be relevent anymore.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Dweezilz_
> *Either way, I have Adelphia as well, so I watch those channels on cable most of the time now.*



Same here. Though I don't usually have much probably getting a solid lock on WOIO-DT with my OTA box, even with my indoor antenna pointed out the window in northwest Akron. Maybe I'm on the right side of the stick, if there are interference issues out of Detroit or Canada...


----------



## yespage

I've got an old antenna in my attic, it was there when I got the house. The wiring is old and I think it's just UHF so I haven't even bothered with it.


He's the thing about my reception. I've elevated my HDTVi a few feet higher and it has made an actual difference. I can now get WKYC, but usually only locked in by evening and in the nighttime. By morning it's gone. Is that a solar issue or is that a broadcasting signal strength issue?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by yespage_
> *He's the thing about my reception. I've elevated my HDTVi a few feet higher and it has made an actual difference. I can now get WKYC, but usually only locked in by evening and in the nighttime. By morning it's gone. Is that a solar issue or is that a broadcasting signal strength issue?*



It's a "WKYC-DT Is On Low VHF Channel 2" issue.










The biggest problem with that channel, as with WKYC's analog channel 3, is noise. VHF 2 is SO susceptible to electrical interference. If you wanna see why, just pull out a small analog TV with rabbit ears and look carefully at the reception on 3...it's even worse on 2.


If you're getting locks on WKYC-DT in evening/night and not during the day, perhaps there is nearby industrial electrical interference that only shows up during the workday. Just a guess. It's not that regular for me, but I've usually noticed that my locks on WKYC-DT are at night and on weekends.


Both you and I are using indoor antennas. If you can get VHF wiring out of that old outdoor antenna in the attic (and it has VHF elements), you might have much better luck. There's not a lot of room for error with low VHF and indoor antennas. Getting it outside and facing to Parma may be the only way you can squeeze out WKYC-DT 24/7.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *Same here. Though I don't usually have much probably getting a solid lock on WOIO-DT with my OTA box, even with my indoor antenna pointed out the window in northwest Akron. Maybe I'm on the right side of the stick, if there are interference issues out of Detroit or Canada...*



The interference on WOIO-DT is from CFPL-TV London, Ontario about 110 miles north of Greater Cleveland. I grew up watching CFPL from my home in Euclid. It came in like gangbusters every summer (along with several other Canadian, Detroit , Erie, and Toledo stations). If you live in Lake, Geauga or Ashtabula counties you can count on interference on WOIO-DT (hey this gives a whole new meaning to the "snow belt"). If you live far enough south - like in Mansfield, I'm willing to bet WBNS-10 out of Columbus is also taking a byte out of your WOIO-DT reception.


Out of all the Cleveland DT assignments, WOIO-DT's being ch 10 is one of the worst choices the comittee made (followed by WKYC-DT's being on ch 2). I have nothing against VHF assignments, however when there are stations on nearly every VHF channel within 120 miles of a city VHF DT assignments should not have been considered. The "skip" from neighboring areas (not to mention the problems people in the outlying areas like Sandusky) will cause guarenteed interference problems.


Even the UHF DT's are not immune from the neighbors. About the only Cleveland DT assignment that I have not previously DX'ed an analog station on from my days in Euclid is ch 15 (digital home of WEWS-DT).


Using a highly directional antenna is almost a necessity in order to mitigate the analog interference. Even then if the interfering analog signal is strong enough you still may get pixillation or black screens.


I'm lucky that I now live in the Parma antenna farm. WOIO-DT peggs my 921 at a solid 125. I still cannot get a lock on WVIZ. I found out from their web site that they are on an "STA" (special temporary authority) broadcasting at a paltry 1 kw on a 99' tower located at their Brookpark Rd. studio (which is farther north and down the hill from the rest of the antenna farm tower sites).

So unless you live along I-480 just west of State, you probably won't be getting a lock on ch 26. (HINT: now you know where to aim if you want to try for WVIZ).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Michael P 2341_
> *So unless you live along I-480 just west of State, you probably won't be getting a lock on ch 26. (HINT: now you know where to aim if you want to try for WVIZ).*



Welcome to the thread! Some pages back here, we had a discussion of this, and confirmation that WVIZ was working on its permanent DT installation, at the same North Royalton site that houses analog 25. There was a legal battle between WVIZ and Infinity Broadcasting (Viacom), which owns the site also used for one of its FM stations, WNCX/98.5.


The legal stuff was resolved, and WVIZ/ideastream has been doing the planning, and presumably at this point, actual construction of the new full-power DT site. Last I'd heard, the full-power DT 26 should be up sometime this summer. (I can't get the tiny stick at the studios here, either, though Adelphia does put WVIZ-DT's HD feed on its system.)


As far as the interference issues on DT 10 go, I guess I'm too far from London, Ontario for CFPL's analog stick to be a problem, and too far from Columbus for WBNS's analog stick to be a problem. We never really got CFPL down here in Akron, even when I was a kid. (For anyone who cares - CFPL, now known as "The New PL" in a regional network of stations in Ontario, will change again to "The A Channel" this fall.)


----------



## Italians

anyone have any advice for/against putting my HDTVi in the attic and trying to pull all the locals with it on my 811?? I have it behind my tv now, down low, and pull 8, 15, 43, 50, 50.1 so I'm hoping that maybe having the antenna in the attic will help me pull almost everything from my western North Olmsted home. Any pros or cons would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all your knowledge and help!!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Italians_
> *anyone have any advice for/against putting my HDTVi in the attic and trying to pull all the locals with it on my 811?? I have it behind my tv now, down low, and pull 8, 15, 43, 50, 50.1 so I'm hoping that maybe having the antenna in the attic will help me pull almost everything from my western North Olmsted home. Any pros or cons would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all your knowledge and help!!*



If you've got RG/6 coax going to the attic, it would be easy to just give it a try, it can't hurt. I really advise putting that antenna in a window though (with no metal screen in front of it). It was a PITA, but I ran RG/6 coax directly from the ground floor TV to a 3rd floor bedroom just so I could put my Silver Sensor on top of a dresser aimed out the window towards Parma.


----------



## Shark73

Hi all! I've been MIA for a while on this board. Directv has just increased the NFL Sunday ticket to $320 per year, which includes the HD games. I'm really not happy about this and I'm considering a move back to Adelphia. Not sure this is the right move, but I hope you guys might be able to help me with my decision.


I'd like to know how Adelphia has been lately...In terms of PQ of SD channels as well as PQ of the HD channels. I would also like to know what HD DVR is being offered and what do I need to know about this box? I've looked through the thread, but I was unable to really understand what's going on with Adelphia version upgrades.


If someone could be kind enough to write a short paragraph about the HD DVR's and HD channels. I would greatly appreciate the help!


Thanks,


JP


----------



## jtscherne

I have used Adelphia HD since its introduction. I am satisfied with the overall picture quality. I also think their offerings are great (only missing TNT and Universal (formerly Bravo). I would like to see a PPV channel, but that's a small quibble.


The HD DVR I have is the SA 8300. As far as I know, this is the only HD DVR they currently have available. I find it easy to use, but doesn't offer the features of TiVo (as far as I know, none of the HD boxes come close to TiVo).


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia has a HD PPV channel (799), but as far as I know, it's only been used once...for a boxing match a few weeks or so ago.


Adelphia at least at one time offered the SA 8000...it's the unit I still have today. It's no TiVo, to be sure. It has basically been fairly solid for me, though it did punt once when I had two shows scheduled in a time slot and a third show showed up there from a previous "record all" setting...it didn't record any of the three shows! Other than that, it's gotten everything. You kinda have to keep a better eye on the SA DVRs vs. TiVo...TiVo takes care of its own problems and conflicts better.


PQ of the SD channels is moderate to not bad, though the 8000 records SD channels in worse quality than live (the 8300 is supposed to fix this problem). Adelphia DID something pretty good recently with the SD channels...they are doing the local OTA network affiliates in digital quality (SD) on the lower channels (3, 4/19, 5, 6/43, 8). But all of those except for 43 are available in HD on Adelphia, so it may not matter much to you with an HD box.


The non-digitally delivered SD channels, below 100, still look a bit fuzzy to me. Maybe I'm just too spoiled by the digital and HD channel quality.


This is long-term, but Adelphia will eventually become Time Warner Cable locally, in the next year or so. TWC generally has a decent reputation down here (Akron/Canton/Youngstown).


----------



## jtscherne

I mean a PPV channel with movie offerings. Of course I know about the events channel (it was used for a Mike Tyson HD fight over a year ago).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> As far as the interference issues on DT 10 go, I guess I'm too far from London, Ontario for CFPL's analog stick to be a problem, and too far from Columbus for WBNS's analog stick to be a problem. We never really got CFPL down here in Akron, even when I was a kid. (For anyone who cares - CFPL, now known as "The New PL" in a regional network of stations in Ontario, will change again to "The A Channel" this fall.)



While you may not have been able to get a watchable signal from either distant channel 10 before WOIO-DT went on the air, there still may be artifacts of these analog signals affecting WOIO-DT.


Thanks for the information about "The New Network" becoming the A channel. I have been tempted to "go grey" (i.e. get a fake Canadian address in order to subscribe to a Canadian DBS service). If the Canadian digital OTA's ever get on the air I may be able to grab some of them. I can get a snowy ch-16 which is a New Network station "The New WI" as in CHWI. It's almost 100% the same programming as CFPL except for the local news. WHat I really want is a good feed of the CBC (which is what CFPL used to be). I get CBC on 40 sometimes - but usualy there is another 40 from Pittsburg (Cornerstone). I have Sky Angel so I can flip to SA to identify which ch 40 I'm getting.


BTW: for those of you "aiming at Parma" I live in the antenna farm (Seven Hills for now, moving soon to Parma in the shadow of WJW's tower). I use an omni which works fine for the close stations but gives me squat for WEAO and the rest of the Akron/Canton stations. I bought a Silver Sensor and found a spot where I can get a lock for two stations from A/K (the other one is WDLI with it's 4 subchannels). There is about 200' of terrain between Seven Hills and A/K that I believe is blocking the signal (I never had a decent picture on any of the analogs except for 67 which is Shop-at-Home (big deal). I wish PAX-23 would have moved their stick to where 67 is (Brimfield or Suffield, just South of Kent IIRC). PAX used to own 67 and moved the stick before selling the station to SAH.


Anyone have any news on when PAX and WBNX are going to sign on their DT's?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *I just got an e-mail from the station manager at WBNX and now it seems a digital broadcast is not too likely in the near future. I guess the response I recieved earlier about HD equipment was either not true or for a direct feed to cable companies which is hinted at in the e-mail.
> 
> 
> quote:We've been working on interference issues in Canada however a construction permit for our digital facility has not been issued, unfortunately we will not be broadcasting in digital prior to the 05-06 season.
> 
> 
> HD carriage will be a major issue when we begin negotiations with the cable companies for must carriage a little later in the year. How we get it to them will factor into that discussion. Appreciate your patience.
> 
> 
> Last edited by Phoenix2088 on 04-29-05 at 06:43 AM*



" interference issues in Canada" ? How about interference issues with WGTE in Toledo? I don't know about any ch 30's in "near-by" Canada, the closest one would be ch 31 which is a repeater of CITY-TV (and another 31 in Ann Arbor, MI). Since WJW has been on 31 for some time now I don't see how WBNX's signal would affect Canada. I was wondering about WBNX & WJW being adjacent channels.


There is another Canadian station near-by on 29 which is a Global repeater. Again a DT signal on 30 should not affect either adjacent ananlog station.


----------



## Phoenix2088

WBNX re-submitted an application that corrects the interference issues, but the FCC has been VERY slow with it. I don't know what the deal is, but WBNX should be working very closely with the Canadian officials and the FCC to get this done. Cleveland is a Top 20 market, and it is one of the only stations not broadcasting digitally. Hell even the Univision affiliate is digital, pathetic.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Based on DX reception I received prior to any DT signals signing on or the knowledge of a station in a neighboring market, here is my critique of the Cleveland DT assignments:


WKYC-DT 2: Ch 2 has a high tendency to "skip" like short-wave radio. I once picked up WPBT-2 from Miami and KPRC-2 Houston back in the 80's. Closer to home you have WJBK-2 Detroit (I wonder what channel 2 looks like in Sandusky in either analog or digital), KDKA-2 Pittsburg (ditto my comments about Sandusky, just change the recetion location to points south of Canton).


WEWS-DT 15: The only DT assignment that has no nearby analog station. The closest is Parkersburg, WV which is way beyond the 110 mile limit for any point within the Cleveland DMA. There is something called "land mobile" associated with ch 15. But I've never seen any data regarding the effects of land mobile on DT signals.


WJW-DT: a CITY-TV repeater somewhere in SW Ontario and WPXD-31 Ann Arbor - potential problems anywhere along the south shores of Lake Erie. I've DX'ed both of these on numerous occasions in Euclid.


WOIO-DT 10: CFPL-10 London Ontario used to be viewable as strong as some local channels. The farther you travel northeast along the south shore of Lake Erie the stronger CFPL comes in. I presume similar problems in Ashland and Mansfield with WBNS-10 out of Columbus.


WVPX-DT 59: Not on the air yet. But if/when they do go on the air, 59 is one of the frequencies that the FCC wants to auction off for non TV use. BTW I never DX'ed anything on 59, so the auxction aside, it is otherwise a good channel to use.


WVIZ-DT: There is a 26 in Springfield/Columbus WBDT. Less likely to cause probelms in the southern most regions of the Cleveland DMA due to Springfield being a little bit farther south. So 26 would not be so bad for Cleveland. If only WVIZ could get the full power on the tall tower.


WUAB-DT: WTTE-28 in Columbus might affect the southern region. I once DX'ed this one from Downtown Cleveland.


WBNX-DT: WGTE-30 in Toledo probably would cause the western region problems.


WQHS-DT: WOSU-34 another Columbus analog with potential problems for the southern region of the DMA.


Then there is the reverse problems such as Pittsburg's KDKA-DT's assignment on 25! That one has been reported on other forums as causing problems in a wide area both inside and outside the Pittsburg DMA.


Bottom line the majority of DT assignments are poorly chosen, resulting in the DT transmitters being run on less than full power to try and mitigate interference with nearby DMA's, and leaving the "outskirts" out-of-luck for anything OTA (digital or analog).


This completes my rant. I apologize if this has been addressed before. I did not read all 144 pages of this thread so please forgive this newbie. I hope the information will help some who can't get a lock on some of the Cleveland stations and/or will loose some stations intermittantly as the summer "skip" season approaches. Living "downwind" from the transmitters helps me, however most of you don't live that close.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Phoenix2088_
> *WBNX re-submitted an application that corrects the interference issues, but the FCC has been VERY slow with it. I don't know what the deal is, but WBNX should be working very closely with the Canadian officials and the FCC to get this done. Cleveland is a Top 20 market, and it is one of the only stations not broadcasting digitally. Hell even the Univision affiliate is digital, pathetic.*



By the way, the problem station for WBNX-DT is not analog WGTE/30 out of Toledo, but a digital allocation for Paris, Ontario (between Hamilton and London) on 30 itself. I believe this is the digital side of the Global network station on analog 6, which at least one website claims is the original home of Toronto-based CIII-TV (now analog 41 in Toronto itself, I believe).


----------



## Michael P 2341

The Canadians have been dragging their feet getting OTA DT up. Let them move an allocation for once!











I have DX'ed the Paris Global staton several times, sometimes on my car radio! I used to cruise listeneing to 87.7 FM, if audio is heard chances the skip is up. One time I heard ESPN's audio!?! It turned out to be a bad Cable TV installation in an apartment building on W.130th St. Back in my Euclid days I used to get WUAB on channel 4 by aiming my rotor at the Americana (too bad they didn't put Showtime on ch 4).


----------



## Michael P 2341

Speaking of the WB, if you are able aim your antenna at Youngstown and try to get a lock on 20. If successful you will receive WFMJ-DT with an HD NBC plus an SD WB! I once got the PSIP data into my guide but the signal was never strong enough to give a picture.


I know it's only SD, but it is digital (one step closer than what we have now).










Getting the Youngstown signals is a good thing, especially when our locals decide not to show the network programing. WEWS is the worst offender ofthis followed by WKYC. But the true joy of getting the Youngstown stations is during the NFL regular season. Once in a while they will carry a different game than WOIO (forget FOX, that station, WYFX, is LP in Y-town). I hope that WKBN will do a subchanel of WYFX when they finally get their DT running on 41 (I have seen an unlockable signal on 41 from time to time).


----------



## Inundated

We talk about the Youngstown DTV stations here from time to time. One of our regulars, who lives down in Springfield Twp. in Summit County, can pick up WFMJ-DT fine. I'm over on the other side of the Akron area, and doubt I could get it even with a rooftop antenna.


WFMJ's engineer posts occasionally on the Youngstown thread, and I think has even shown up here once or twice. I asked him about future power increases, and he noted I could expect an increase out of WFMJ-DT...in July 2006, when they're legally mandated to do so. No idea on the status of WKBN-DT.


I have some digital screencaps from the market, when I drove over there one day...


----------



## Inundated

FYI - those looking for the PBS HD feed via WVIZ-DT 26 this weekend will be disappointed.


If you're one of the 100 or so people who can pick up their OTA digital signal, or if you get WVIZ-DT via Adelphia cable, they're simulcasting their analog channel most of this weekend to carry the annual WVIZ Auction:

http://www.wviz.org/auction/index.shtml 


The auction will repeat next Friday through Sunday.


Those of us in the Akron area can still get PBS HD via WEAO-DT 50.1 Akron.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I only saw a few seconds of WVIZ-DT, and that was a subchannel called OhioLink. I can get 50.1 & 50.2 by aiming my Silver Sensor out my front window.


I can hardly wait to see what I get when I move into Parma. The new house is 100' higher than where I am now (and I'm failly high up already at 1061'). That is why I have been getting 2 of the 3 Youngstown analog statons full time using only an indoor bow-tie.


Thanks for the Y-town pics! If anybody is interested, there is an HD DX page where WFMJ-DT was picked up in Indiana!







They even show a "WBCB coming soon" slate as the pic from WFMJ!


Is 21 & 33 the only Y-town stations your friend can get? I was wondering if WKBN is live yet. I see a signal on 41 but it never locks. They could jut be in test mode for now.


----------



## Inundated

I believe that "OhioLink" thing is the subchannel they use to carry the radio reading service. It's the same service you can hear now on the SAP channel of analog 25.


As far as Y-Town's DT situation, if WKBN-DT is up, it's only testing. I don't believe they have program material up, and I wasn't aware they were even doing anything with the signal...


----------



## Michael P 2341

When I aim my Silver Sensor to the ESE and try for 41, I get a "tease" signal on my 921 that fluctuates from 70 to 0 and back. Same thing happens on 20 and 36.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Michael P 2341_
> *
> 
> Is 21 & 33 the only Y-town stations your friend can get? I was wondering if WKBN is live yet. I see a signal on 41 but it never locks. They could jut be in test mode for now.*



Michael,

I'm the guy down in Springfield Township. I get a very strong signal on 20 and a much weaker signal on 36. 36 does not freeze or pixelate but the picture has a tendency to continually jump ahead as if someone removed several frames. Even stranger, the sound never skips. I've never seen anything like it on any other digital channel. I talked to their head engineer and he thinks I'm just too far away. I wish I could get a better signal since they broadcast in DD 5.1 while WEWS does not. Have you ever had a problem like this while watching something in HD on 36? I've never gotten any signal on 41. I'll try again tonight.

Steve


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by SteveC_
> *Michael,
> 
> I'm the guy down in Springfield Township. I get a very strong signal on 20 and a much weaker signal on 36. 36 does not freeze or pixelate but the picture has a tendency to continually jump ahead as if someone removed several frames. Even stranger, the sound never skips. I've never seen anything like it on any other digital channel. I talked to their head engineer and he thinks I'm just too far away. I wish I could get a better signal since they broadcast in DD 5.1 while WEWS does not. Have you ever had a problem like this while watching something in HD on 36? I've never gotten any signal on 41. I'll try again tonight.
> 
> Steve*




I can lock in 21 and 33 on rear occasions. 27 I have not got it to lock in either.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by firemantom26_
> *I can lock in 21 and 33 on rear occasions. 27 I have not got it to lock in either.*



whatever, you're a steeler fan. you're hdtv is probably black and gold. you're not welcome in this forum!


----------



## firemantom26

Mike_Stuewe your tone is all wrong


----------



## bedo

Anyone got a phone # to call?


Edit:

Whoops, no HD tonight...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...06#post5650006


----------



## bubblegum1647

Folks in Medina if you do not know Armstrong has gotten CBS HD now. channel 104. It sure took them long enough.


----------



## gass




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by firemantom26_
> *Mike_Stuewe your tone is all wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



That's just how those Browns fans are, You KNOW that. What's are SOLJA anyway? What's a Brown for that matter?!


----------



## Inundated

Anyone else with Adelphia have sound problems on the HD channels, only? I had it from about 5 tonight...the sound died entirely, but worked on the analog channels.


After I came back home and still found the sound gone on the HD channels, I rebooted the SA8000 and now I have sound again. It must be a glitch that got triggered in the box or something.


----------



## hookbill

Well, since I don't watch anything live other then news I can't help.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by hookbill_
> *Well, since I don't watch anything live other then news I can't help.*



As mentioned, it's OK now, after a reboot.


But...it wasn't just live. Anything that got recorded in that time frame from the HD channels was also soundless.


I was just wondering if this was a "known bug" with the SA8000, and if I have to worry about it happening in the future...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> _Originally posted by Inundated_
> *As mentioned, it's OK now, after a reboot.
> 
> 
> But...it wasn't just live. Anything that got recorded in that time frame from the HD channels was also soundless.
> 
> 
> I was just wondering if this was a "known bug" with the SA8000, and if I have to worry about it happening in the future...*



Supposedly the last update was to deal with sound glitches, and while they haven't disappeared completely it does seem to me on the 8300 that sound problems are less frequent.


Inundated, what's keeping you from going to the 8300?


----------



## hookbill

FWIW, I received a form letter in the mail from Adelphia basically saying that the deal with Comcast and Time Warner is done and my cable service is one of the ones to be affected by it. It did not specify which provider, though common sense tells me its TW.


It also mentioned no changes for at least a year.


----------



## desmoface

Hey gang, newbie here; I hope I'm not rehashing old subjects, but I'm finally making the plunge into hdtv..my beat up old 27" magnavox is acting funny so it's time to get a new tv. Anyway, I have to get either digital cable or a dish..I'm in Mentor and see I have some neighbors on avs...anyone have any advice on which is better to get between the dish or digital comcast cable?


I wish picking a new tv was as easy as the dish/cable decision LOL..thanks again for any advice.


Steve


----------



## SteveC

Steve,

If you go the dish route, the only way to get the HD local channels(ABC, CBS, etc) is with an antenna(no dish company yet offers local HD channels via the dish). If you have no problem with that then it's just a matter of comparing price and channels offered. The only other issue is that the dish companies slightly reduce the resolution of the 1080i HD channels(HBO, Discovery, etc) to save bandwidth. Cable does not do that. On the other hand most average people probably would not know the difference or care.

Steve


----------



## desmoface

Hey Steve, thanks for the reply. I guess I'll be going with cable then...I just saw a direct tv commercial that said that cable only shows some of its channels in digital but direct tv shows most of them in digital..But the local channels are the clincher for me...Thanks again for the reply.


Steve


----------



## oachalon

hookbill on either time warners or comcast website i forgot where said that comcast users and adelphia users in ohio are going to time warner.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Steve, thanks for the reply. I guess I'll be going with cable then...I just saw a direct tv commercial that said that cable only shows some of its channels in digital but direct tv shows most of them in digital..But the local channels are the clincher for me...Thanks again for the reply.
> 
> 
> Steve



Woah! Don't get digital and High definition confused. They aren't interchangable. Directv _does_ show digital local channels. They just don't show local channels in high def.


----------



## desmoface

Ok, that makes sense. So they do have the local channels on direct tv it's just that they are in sd. So what would be the difference in comcast and direct tv other than the fact that the local channels wouldnt be in hd with direct tv? Thanks again.


Steve


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, that makes sense. So they do have the local channels on direct tv it's just that they are in sd. So what would be the difference in comcast and direct tv other than the fact that the local channels wouldnt be in hd with direct tv? Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Steve



The difference? Probably $20 a month more for cable. And as I noted, the signal you'll get for local channels on Directv will be better than if you used an antenna for standard definition. Directv and me got along very well, I just got tired of paying to watch Law and Order re-runs, so I'm strictly OTA now. It was cool to watch Attack of the Clones in widescreen and 5.1 over-the-air.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> It was cool to watch Attack of the Clones in widescreen and 5.1 over-the-air.



I recorded it on my 921










I have Dish Network. I do not pay extra for the locals since I get a lock on all the digital OTA's.

It's the best way to go since you are in control. What you get is only limited by your location and the amount of time & money you want to spend prefecting your OTA set-up.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I recorded it on my 921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have Dish Network. I do not pay extra for the locals since I get a lock on all the digital OTA's.
> 
> It's the best way to go since you are in control. What you get is only limited by your location and the amount of time & money you want to spend prefecting your OTA set-up.



The whole process of the antenna is a pain. I don't think Congress has a clue how much work is required to get a good signal. I've finally found a place for my indoor antenna that fully locks Fox, CBS, UPN, ABC, UNI and probably the WB. I lose any chance of NBC, but then it was only a glitchy reception for that. Time will tell if I decide to get an outdoor antenna. Hopefully NBC moves soon enough.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, that makes sense. So they do have the local channels on direct tv it's just that they are in sd. So what would be the difference in comcast and direct tv other than the fact that the local channels wouldnt be in hd with direct tv? Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Steve



Keep in mind, both cable & sat. will have locals in SD. Cable will have locals HD as well & on Sat. you'll need to pull them in via over the air antenna. DirectTV has discussed carrying local HD's, although nothing has been put into motion as of yet. I find that the video quality is a touch better on the HD locals via antenna then on cable. I have both Dish Network & Adelphia. The other HD channels are about the same via Dish/cable, but the locals ota are just a tad better via antenna. I usually don't bother switching to the OTA locals anymore unless I'm watching the Dish HD's already however. The cable local HD's are very close & good enough to not have to bother changing video inputs etc...


There's pro's & con's to either. Sattelite can have issues during heavy snow if the dish gets covered. It has happened to me each winter at least once or twice. Dish network just added the original VOOM! channels so that is a plus there. They also have the VOOM! birds in the air so they have plenty of space for more. Direct may add local HD at some point so that's a plus for them. It's possible Dish might do the same. As of now, Dish Network is the king of HD. With Adelphia I have the DVR, InHD1 & 2, & ease of use. That's the advantage there. I only have the Dish HD & no regular programming.


Good luck.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I'll echo the sentiments of others here regarding satellite v. cable. I live in Medina, and I have had DirecTV since moving here three years ago. I don't have any experience with the local cable outlet, but I've been so happy with DirecTV that I haven't had any reason to switch.


Mostly what others have said is correct; about the only substantive difference you'll see going cable over satellite is that locals are carried HD through the cable while you'll need an antenna for DirecTV. But another difference is the upfront cost. Sure, cable may run you $20 a month more, but DirecTV will require an upfront purchase of some hardware. A normal HD box will set you back a couple of hundred bucks for DirecTV, while cable's will be rolled into the monthly cost of the service.


But if DirecTV moves to MPEG-4 compression later this year in order to deliver our locals in HD (which is a done deal; it's just a matter of time), you'll have some useless hardware on your hands when the switch occurs. None of the current crop of boxes is compatible.


Now DirecTV has a habit of subsidizing the upgrade to new boxes when the new technologies take over, and I'm sure this will be no different. But it will undoubtedly require at least a one-year subscription to a minimum level of service in order to qualify.


And, if you want a PVR for your HD material, cable is arguably the better way to go. DirecTV's HD-TiVO is about $1,000 upfront. And, again, it will be obsolete by the end of the year if you want the locals through the dish in HD.


I'm sure this sounds like an anti-DirecTV post at this point, and that's not entirely untrue. Yes, I'm exceedingly happy with DirecTV, but if I was making the switch *today*, it would be hard to decide for the dish over cable just due to the current costs involved.


But, there's nothing that says you can't go cable now and wait until the dust settles at DirecTV once the new satellites are operational and the locals are being pushed to us. Just remember that either way you go, you still have the option of switching down the road.


EDIT: There are a number of great sticky threads at the top of the HDTV Hardware forum about the current and future status of DirecTV.


----------



## desmoface

Hi Zman, thanks for the info, it's exactly what I was looking for. My plan is to go with cable for now and see what comes down the pike with direct tv. Now I have to find a tv cause mine was really acting up when I was trying to watch some motorcycle racing I recorded Sunday..I know this isn't the proper forum for "which tv" posts, but if you have any recomendations I'd sure appreciate em...looking mostly at dlps...thanks again.


Steve


----------



## Michael P 2341

One of the reasons why I'm so high on OTA is because you get all the free subchannels OTA. As of now there is no guarentee that cable or satellite will ever carry the subchannels. In fact both have been fighting the FCC over forced carriage of the subchannels.


WKYC has "Weather Plus", which is on at least one cable system digital tier. I had access to "WP" since day one, plus I also had access to it's predecessor (a silent feed of WKYC's doppler). For awhile both were available, but they have since pulled 3-3.


----------



## Dweezilz

I'm sure it's personal preference & to each their own, but the subchannels have never once hit me as a reason why I like OTA better. I'm not saying you are wrong as if you like them that is great, but in my opinion, I could care less about those. They show nothing aside from NBC's Weather Plus, which is info you can get on the internet & with greater detail. I wish those subchannels would go away because if more programming does eventually appear on them, expect our HD picture quality to drop like The Tonight Show did when WKYC split up. Dish Network provides an info channel customized to your zip code which has the same weather info along with other news etc... Adelphia doesn't have anything like that yet, but the weather channel has nearly the same info on the current conditions. Either way, be it on Adelphia, Dish, or OTA, I rarely look at any of those weather channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One of the reasons why I'm so high on OTA is because you get all the free subchannels OTA. As of now there is no guarentee that cable or satellite will ever carry the subchannels. In fact both have been fighting the FCC over forced carriage of the subchannels.
> 
> 
> WKYC has "Weather Plus", which is on at least one cable system digital tier. I had access to "WP" since day one, plus I also had access to it's predecessor (a silent feed of WKYC's doppler). For awhile both were available, but they have since pulled 3-3.



You can also view "Weather Plus" on line. It wouldn't have any factor in my decision over OTA vs Cable. I just think you can get more HD on cable, plain and simple.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can also view "Weather Plus" on line. It wouldn't have any factor in my decision over OTA vs Cable. I just think you can get more HD on cable, plain and simple.



Aside from Dish network with 16 HD channels since they added VOOM originals right? ha!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Aside from Dish network with 16 HD channels since they added VOOM originals right? ha!



I think I saw its $57 a month for their 60 channel package and all the HD channels! That doesn't include a DVR, but that seems like a great price.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah that is good. I debated which way to go & in the end, aside from just the HD package that I get from Dish, I went with Adelphia (stayed with). When you combine cable modem which would be $57 alone (I know DSL is only $29.99, but it's considerably slower & I need the full speed of cable), it just doesn't save any money at all & the cable just from pure convenience & ease for TV watching in multiple rooms in the house, is the best route for me.


But I get the best of both worlds...cable for internet, regular channels, & HD as well as Dish Network for their 16 HD channels for another $18 per month total ($8 for HD pack (it was discounted), $5 for not having any programming package & $5 for the VOOM! channels).


----------



## g_bartman

I am moving soon to a new home. the cable provider has a miniscule hd programing package. I am thinking of going with a satelite. My problem; I don't have a built in hd tuner for over the air. Can i connect a terestrial antenna to the satelite dish to pass the signal from the antenna to the tv?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g_bartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am moving soon to a new home. the cable provider has a miniscule hd programing package. I am thinking of going with a satelite. My problem; I don't have a built in hd tuner for over the air. Can i connect a terestrial antenna to the satelite dish to pass the signal from the antenna to the tv?



In order to receive the satellite signals to begin with, you'll need an external set-top box (STB). As far as I know, the STBs provided by both DirecTV and DishNetwork will accept an antenna input for your local HD channels which will then integrate directly with the channels provided through the satellite provider through the box. In other words, one wire will go from the dish into the STB, and another will go from the antenna into the box. Your TV won't know the difference since it only displays what's coming from the STB.


I hope this helps, but if I misunderstood the question, let me know. By the way, I'm a happy DirecTV HD customer.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g_bartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am moving soon to a new home. the cable provider has a miniscule hd programing package. I am thinking of going with a satelite. My problem; I don't have a built in hd tuner for over the air. Can i connect a terestrial antenna to the satelite dish to pass the signal from the antenna to the tv?



While all satellite STB's have an antenna "pass through", only the true HD model STB/IRD's have an OTA tuner.


For DirecTv I know of model DTC-100. There are some newer ones (including an HD TIVO) that I am not aware of the model numbers, as I am a Dish Network Subscriber.


For Dish Network the following IRD's have a built-in HD OTA tuner: 811, 6000 (careful with the 6000, it was an add-on module so not all 6000's have the tuner).

PVR's: 921 and 942.


If you are interested in a PVR the 942 is the latest and greatest, while the 921 was released before the "bugs" were worked out. While they have been working on the bugs with s/w updates, it's takes a hearty soul to deal with it's quirks.










Probably your best bet if you don't want to go the PVR route is the 811 - it is the only one to get guide data for the OTA's integrated into the EPG hassle-free (i.e. without having to sub to the SD locals just to get the guide data).


----------



## DCSholtis

Samsung T-360 as well for Directv does that too


----------



## Inundated

A number of issues:


* I got the Adelphia letter as well. It didn't specifically mention which company would take over...it looked more like a "no matter what you've heard, we'll still be serving you for at least a while...your cable won't go out" letter. It's already been officially announced that Adelphia's local systems - along with Comcast's local systems - go to TWC.


* Why don't I get the 8300? Good question, mostly just not getting off my butt and going to the local Adelphia service center, I guess.







That, and letting go of whatever I've got sitting in there as far as recordings go.


* DirecTV IS in the process of setting up the infrastructure for locals in HD. They've already launched the first satellite that'll do so. 12 of the top markets will be doing HD LIL in the next 3-4 months or so. That list doesn't include Cleveland...which will be in the next round (top 30), possibly by the end of the year or thereabouts.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just wondering if this was a "known bug" with the SA8000, and if I have to worry about it happening in the future...



The SA8000HD has a lot of bugs and yes you probably have to worry about it happening in the future. Since the latest firmware upgrade I can now pretty reliably get solid black screens on my HD channels if I flip around too fast in Passthrough mode. The box gets seriously confused changing from a 720p to a 1080i channel -- audio pop, screen goes black, kerchunk, kerchunk, thinking, then channel may or may not come on.... Sometimes changing to an SD channel and coming back to the HD tier will work, other times, box needs a reboot. I've set it to output 1080i all the time and the problem is solved.


I too am too lazy to swap for an 8300HD and now I've got about 20 hours of BBQ programming from Food Network recorded on there in preparation for Memorial Day, so I'm stuck with this box


----------



## desmoface

Woohooo!! I got me a new sony kdf50we655!! Now I have to order my comcast digital cable; Should I get the cable stand alone box or should I go with cable card? My biggest question is how does the audio go from the card to the audio system? Are there audio outs on the cable card? thanks again.


Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I too am too lazy to swap for an 8300HD and now I've got about 20 hours of BBQ programming from Food Network recorded on there in preparation for Memorial Day, so I'm stuck with this box




Well, you should be well prepared by the time Memorial Day rolls around if you start watching now. What time should we stop by?


----------



## bassguitarman

I've had problems with wkyc -dt (channel 2-1 and 2-2) the last few days

Nothing has changed at my side.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've had problems with wkyc -dt (channel 2-1 and 2-2) the last few days
> 
> Nothing has changed at my side.



I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it's the trees leafing out (I know, bad pun).


I don't know if it's just me but it seems the trees in my yard and all the garden plants are unusually large this spring.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it's the trees leafing out (I know, bad pun).
> 
> 
> I don't know if it's just me but it seems the trees in my yard and all the garden plants are unusually large this spring.



This would be true for UHF stations, but not WKYC-DT.


Skip is up, and channel 2 is the most succeptable to interference during this time. I'm willing to be that if you turned on an analog tv you might see some analog station's signal. I live 1.3 miles from the WKYC tower so I can't confirm skip on the VHF band, however I can confirm that skip was up on UHF. Last night for the first time I was able to lock onto and actually watch WFMJ-DT and WYTV-DT from Youngstown.


----------



## bassguitarman

Thanks, this makes sense since the leaves have been around for a few weeks and it was most noticable saturday and sunday.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Woohooo!! I got me a new sony kdf50we655!! Now I have to order my comcast digital cable; Should I get the cable stand alone box or should I go with cable card? My biggest question is how does the audio go from the card to the audio system? Are there audio outs on the cable card? thanks again.
> 
> 
> Steve



I don't have a Cable Card but I found this interesting link: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/2/107329.html I don't know how much of it applies to your local Comcast system but it raises some interesting questions to ask your Comcast rep.

Steve


----------



## desmoface

Hi Steve, you know, it seems like the few times I called comcast last week I got 1 guy that actually knew what he was talking about. They made it seem like the only way I would get any hd reception was by going to digital cable, Which is obviously wrong. I hooked up the cable to my tv, did the 50 minute auto program and I get all the locals in hd and some others. At this point I have no reason to upgrade to digital cable. They can keep it. Especially if in the next year or 2 its all going to be hd anyway.


Thanks again for the reply


Steve


----------



## ZManCartFan

So I've been a happy DirecTV customer for a few years, but I'm seriously thinking of delving back into the world of HD cable rather than dropping the coin for a DirecTiVO. Is anybody else here with Armstrong in Medina? If so, I've got a couple of questions:


1) What's your overall opinion of the HD service from Armstrong? Prone to dropouts? Reliability?


2) Does Armstrong carry the subchannels carried OTA?


3) Is it true that CBS was recently added in HD?


4) How's the HD PVR? Does it function well? Can you record one show while watching another? What kind of record time can you get with it?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## desmoface

Anyone in the Mentor area notice that wews/abc hd is gone? It was on 110.10 for about the last week that I've had my tv, lastnight I noticed it was gone. Did a new auto channel find on my tv and abc hd is nowhere to be found. Anyone else in the Mentor area notice this? I was under the impression that the cable companies had to provide the local channels in hd when available, at no extra charge? I have comcast, by the way.


Steve


----------



## klp

I noticed last night when I went to watch Lost at 10:00. I wasn't getting anything. I was hoping that it was something temporary but I never saw it come back last night.


----------



## desmoface

Hi Klp, I wonder if you used to get abc on 110.10 (or was it 111.10?) also? I emailed comcast but as usual, they are clueless. I had it up till lastnight sometime. Still hasn't come back.


Steve


----------



## Michael P 2341

I get mine OTA, WEWS-DT has been MIA for a couple of days now. When I did get a signal I lost the channel mapping (i.e. it only comes in as 15-01 on my 921). This is the second time a Cleveland digital station has gone MIA (WUAB-DT was MIA for at least one CAVS game this season).


Don't blame the cable company - call WEWS.


----------



## oachalon

yeah as of now i still dont have wews/abc hd. I am in mentor and get it through comcast.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Klp, I wonder if you used to get abc on 110.10 (or was it 111.10?) also? I emailed comcast but as usual, they are clueless. I had it up till lastnight sometime. Still hasn't come back.
> 
> 
> Steve



It's 110.10 I believe, because 111.10 is CBS. Any clue what ESPN and TNT are? Or any other of the HD channels that aren't local? I know NBC is 83.1 I think and Fox is 83.4...and then that Weather plus HD channel is like 83.6. Can't locate any others.


----------



## desmoface

Hi extreme. Well, I don't have digital cable, just basic, so I dont get those channels in hd (espn & tnt), just regular analog. Sorry I can't help you. Don't bother with Comcast because they apparently don't have a clue. They told me that wews hd was on channel 210 LOL.


Steve


----------



## Michael P 2341

After my last post I once again got a signal on WEWS-DT. At first it was total pixillated garbage, but the following day it was fine. There is one difference - before the signal disappeared, the news was broadcast in "stretch", now it's in 4X3. Just as well since it appears that they are not in true HD anyway (WJW's in-studio cameras are HD but not WEWS or WOIO).


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I've been a happy DirecTV customer for a few years, but I'm seriously thinking of delving back into the world of HD cable rather than dropping the coin for a DirecTiVO. Is anybody else here with Armstrong in Medina? If so, I've got a couple of questions:
> 
> 
> 1) What's your overall opinion of the HD service from Armstrong? Prone to dropouts? Reliability?



Reliablity and picture quality have been very good, with only the infrequent glitch here and there.


> Quote:
> 2) Does Armstrong carry the subchannels carried OTA?



No subchannels are carried.


> Quote:
> 3) Is it true that CBS was recently added in HD?



Yes, WOIO-DT is now on channel 104


> Quote:
> 4) How's the HD PVR? Does it function well? Can you record one show while watching another? What kind of record time can you get with it?



I still have the 6208 because last time I checked they still hadn't enabled dual-tuner operation on the 6412 due to software issues. The 6208 has worked flawlessly, but only records 8-10 hours of HD. Figure 50% more with the 6412. You can't beat the $6 monthly rental fee.


----------



## rluyster

WEWS-DT is now showing up as channel 5.1 on my LG OTA receiver. Previously it was only on 15.1. Apparently they've done something with their mapping signal.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Looks like WEWS listened and fixed that crappy stretch they were using. All the need now is 5.1 DD.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like WEWS listened and fixed that crappy stretch they were using. All the need now is 5.1 DD.



Is it just me or is 3.1 now stretching the standard feed sometimes?


Also, the Indy 500 coverage was uber-disappointing without the 5.1 sound and the needlessly stretched screen.


----------



## hookbill

This isn't HD related, but I'm just curious. Anyone else notice that Adelphia put their on demand station on channel 1? Also I've noticed that every time you shut off your box (I have the 8300) it is starting on channel 3 now.


Also I don't seem to be getting my emails on this thread anymore! There's been about 10 posts since the last time I got an email.


----------



## Inundated

Channel 1 is indeed their "OnDemand" channel here as well. It includes the HBO/Showtime/etc. stuff, along with movie rentals and some free stuff. I think it used to be 200 or something.


Also, they were supposed to move ESPNNews into the non-extra digital tiers, and it still says "Not Authorized" here.


----------



## rlockshin

To get your reminder emails,you must check the current postings. Once you do, you will receive notifications


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To get your reminder emails,you must check the current postings. Once you do, you will receive notifications



Yes! Don't just read the reply sent in your email. You have to go to the link before you'll get anymore email reminders. i made the same mistake.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Did they "black out" the Indians game on InHD last night? All of the other HD channels seemed to be OK, but that one just gave me a blank screen. If so, why? Fox Sports Ohio carried the game in SD with no blackout. Why would they black out one and not the other?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did they "black out" the Indians game on InHD last night? All of the other HD channels seemed to be OK, but that one just gave me a blank screen. If so, why? Fox Sports Ohio carried the game in SD with no blackout. Why would they black out one and not the other?



I'm not certain but I'll bet it was blacked out. As your probably aware when INHD does a MLB game they usually "borrow" a feed, and probably it was FSO. When they break for commercial INHD doesn't show their commercials, usually they fill the space with promos for their own program. No commercials=loss of revenue. That's probably why it was only shown on Fox Sports Ohio.


How do you stay up that late?


----------



## jtscherne

Couldn't have been FSO; Ohio doesn't have HD capabilities. It was the San Diego feed, I'm sure, since they have HD capabilities.


I'm pretty sure that Fox Sports Ohio has exclusive rights in the Cleveland area, except for Saturday afternoon and the ESPN Sunday night game. If the Indians are on ESPN any other day or night, the game is blacked out. I'm guessing this includes inHD.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Anyone notice WEWS is using stretch again? This is really getting annoying.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Couldn't have been FSO; Ohio doesn't have HD capabilities. It was the San Diego feed, I'm sure, since they have HD capabilities.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Fox Sports Ohio has exclusive rights in the Cleveland area, except for Saturday afternoon and the ESPN Sunday night game. If the Indians are on ESPN any other day or night, the game is blacked out. I'm guessing this includes inHD.



Some FOX networks must have HD capability because I know I've seen FOX SPORTS on INHD. I figured they just upgraded the feed somehow, but your right whenever San Diego plays it's usually a local broadcast from San Diego.


----------



## jtscherne

I agree that some Fox Sports have HD capability, but your original post specifically mentioned FSO (Fox Sports Ohio). I think you're right that San Diego is from a local broadcast. It's one of the few non-regional HD broadcast that inHD shows.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Fox Sports Ohio has exclusive rights in the Cleveland area, except for Saturday afternoon and the ESPN Sunday night game. If the Indians are on ESPN any other day or night, the game is blacked out. I'm guessing this includes inHD.



D* did not black out the Tribe game Sunday on WGN for whatever reason. Not sure if that was a mistake or an exception for whatever reason. But we watched the WGN feed instead of FSOH.


I'm sure you're right about the inHD blackout though being due to Cleveland broadcast rights. Wish I could get inHD to have that problem!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D* did not black out the Tribe game Sunday on WGN for whatever reason. Not sure if that was a mistake or an exception for whatever reason. But we watched the WGN feed instead of FSOH.
> 
> 
> I'm sure you're right about the inHD blackout though being due to Cleveland broadcast rights. Wish I could get inHD to have that problem!



I think there is something special about the WGN and TBS "superstations". I notice they are included in even the very limited basic "lifeline" cable tier, the one that includes ABC, CBS, etc. so maybe there's some special rule that keeps them from getting blacked out.


The whole blackout thing is just silly, all it does is piss off the sports fans. What really irritates me is that Fox Saturday Baseball even blacks out the game on my $79 a year subscription to MLB.TV.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The whole blackout thing is just silly, all it does is piss off the sports fans. What really irritates me is that Fox Saturday Baseball even blacks out the game on my $79 a year subscription to MLB.TV.



While I FULLY agree with you...


It's all about the commercials.


Fox Sports Net Ohio pays for the rights to be the exclusive provider of Indians baseball in Northeast Ohio (outside of the broadcast contract with Fox, and the ESPN contract). To recoup that money and make a profit, they sell commercials...and if you're watching the game on a feed other than theirs, you never see the commercials, their ratings are lower (theoretically) and they can't charge as much for spots.


However, I DO think that some sort of special dispensation should be made if the RSN doesn't do HD (like FSN Ohio), so we can watch the games on inHD. Maybe they can somehow upconvert and splice in the FSN Ohio commercials on the inHD feed? Probably not, but it's an idea...


----------



## PlantaTree

I live in the Akron area and just got Time Warner Cable HD service. I have a 32" Sony Wega HD TV. When I watch the normal channels my picture has sidebars or I have to stretch the picture into letterbox. I can't get it to fill up the entire screen like it should. The HD channels look great and are letterbox like I would expect. I have played around with all of the aspect ratios with the box and can't get a full screen with normal channels. How do I get this to work. I talked to the Time Warner service line and they told me that is the way it is when you don't have a widescreen TV. I find this hard to believe. No one would get HD service if they have a non-widescreen TV. Its like watching a 27" tv instead of a 32". Is it possible it is my TV doing this? I can't seem to find anything in the menu for the TV that would cause this. I have the HD cable box with the DVR, model Scientific Atlanta. Hopefully somone can help me out before I cancel the service and switch back to Directv.


----------



## SteveC

The solution is pretty easy. Just hook the S-Video output of the cable box to the S-Video input of your TV. When you watch a non-HD channel, just switch over to the S-Video input. I have a 8300 HD DVR and this works on this box. I assume it will work the same on any other box. This simple concept is light years beyond what a TWC CSR could ever possibly hope to comprehend. Very sad.

Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlantaTree* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in the Akron area and just got Time Warner Cable HD service. I have a 32" Sony Wega HD TV. When I watch the normal channels my picture has sidebars or I have to stretch the picture into letterbox. I can't get it to fill up the entire screen like it should. The HD channels look great and are letterbox like I would expect. I have played around with all of the aspect ratios with the box and can't get a full screen with normal channels. How do I get this to work. I talked to the Time Warner service line and they told me that is the way it is when you don't have a widescreen TV. I find this hard to believe. No one would get HD service if they have a non-widescreen TV. Its like watching a 27" tv instead of a 32". Is it possible it is my TV doing this? I can't seem to find anything in the menu for the TV that would cause this. I have the HD cable box with the DVR, model Scientific Atlanta. Hopefully somone can help me out before I cancel the service and switch back to Directv.



Not trying to make you feel bad, but if you had bought the 30" widescreen wega you wouldn't have that problem.


----------



## hookbill




paule123The whole blackout thing is just silly said:


> WHAT???? You mean the MLB TV that they sell for your computer? Don't miss a single game, no black outs?
> 
> 
> If that's the case I'd be HIGHLY p.o.'d.
> 
> 
> If your talking about MLB through your cable company....$79.00 for a year is a great deal. Quit complaining. Cheapest I ever got it was 129.00 for a year.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not trying to make you feel bad, but if you had bought the 30" widescreen wega you wouldn't have that problem.



Since the 16:9 viewing area is the same on both sets and the 4:3 viewing area on the 30" Sony is only 24.5", I'd say he made the right choice. Then when you see that the 30" is $200 more than the 32", I'd say it's a no brainer.







His only problem are clueless TWC CSRs that don't know how their own equipment works and give out misinformation.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since the 16:9 viewing area is the same on both sets and the 4:3 viewing area on the 30" Sony is only 24.5", I'd say he made the right choice. Then when you see that the 30" is $200 more than the 32", I'd say it's a no brainer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His only problem are clueless TWC CSRs that don't know how their own equipment works and give out misinformation.



Price wise when I looked at them they were the same.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WHAT???? You mean the MLB TV that they sell for your computer? Don't miss a single game, no black outs?
> 
> 
> If that's the case I'd be HIGHLY p.o.'d.
> 
> 
> If your talking about MLB through your cable company....$79.00 for a year is a great deal. Quit complaining. Cheapest I ever got it was 129.00 for a year.



I am talking about the internet MLB.TV, streaming video. If you look at the site, they say you'll see "99%" of the games. If you add up ALL the baseball games played ALL year by EVERY team, and subtract the Saturday Fox game once a week, you probably end up with a number like 99%.


The other problem with MLB.TV is they will black out a game if it is available on TV in your local market. i.e., you can only watch "out of market" games on the internet. They have technology that looks at your IP address and figures out geographically where you are, and will prevent you from watching a Cleveland game if you're on a computer in the Cleveland area for example.


----------



## Chris Isble

Last night I noticed that WUAB was displaying a test pattern on 43-2. Any idea what they are planning on carrying on the subchannel?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night I noticed that WUAB was displaying a test pattern on 43-2. Any idea what they are planning on carrying on the subchannel?



Rumor is that it will be a new music network called "The Tube"

http://www.thetubetv.com/raycommediadeal.html


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rumor is that it will be a new music network called "The Tube"
> 
> http://www.thetubetv.com/raycommediadeal.html



It's good to know that they're apparently putting this on WUAB, and not WOIO.


----------



## PlantaTree

Ok, I did what you said. I ran a S-Video cable to one of my Video inputs on my tv. When I switch to that video input on my tv there is no picture. Your idea makes sense, but it doesn't work. Do I need to change some setting in the box to tell it to output the video on the other outputs. I can't find anything in the menu. My box is an Explorer 8000HD.


----------



## PlantaTree

I forgot to add, I am using Componet Video cables for the HD. Is it possible that it can't output on Component Video and S-Video at the same time? Would it work if I switched the HD to the Digital DVI hookup? I also ran a RCA video cable from the VCR Archive outputs and those don't work either. This is really starting to drive me crazy.


----------



## hookbill

I have my Sony Wega hooked up with an S video cable as well, but I never use it. I do have an HDMI connector, but I don't think that just having component video would stop the S video in the 8000. I know it will stop a cable connection from working.


I know this doesn't answer your question, I'm just trying to compare my hookup to yours.


----------



## extremegamer

Anyone have any idea when Comcast will get a box that supports HDMI? I don't feel like spending $150 for a DVI to HDMI cable. I had the Pelican HD switch box, that now has fried from last night's thunderstorm here in Mentor and I have way to many HD inputs (DVD player, XBox, PS2, Cube). And nothing is using my HDMI input currently. Thought of buying a Upscaling DVD player, but it won't really enhance much on my TV (tube). Also thought about just putting the DVD player on S-Video and seeing if my TV (34XBR960) will do as good a job with the progressive scan. Any help!?


Thanks!


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlantaTree* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, I did what you said. I ran a S-Video cable to one of my Video inputs on my tv. When I switch to that video input on my tv there is no picture. Your idea makes sense, but it doesn't work. Do I need to change some setting in the box to tell it to output the video on the other outputs. I can't find anything in the menu. My box is an Explorer 8000HD.



A friend of mine had that box and had the same problem. I just assumed his 8000 was defective. We could not find a single person at TWC that knew anything about this so it was impossible to tell for sure. He just had them replace the 8000 with the 8300 and he is working fine. I suggest you do the same.

Steve


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night I noticed that WUAB was displaying a test pattern on 43-2. Any idea what they are planning on carrying on the subchannel?



PSIP data on my STB identifies 43-2 as being "The Tube."


----------



## Shark73

Does anyone know if Adelphia uses transmits full bandwidth on their HD channels?


Thanks,


JP


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlantaTree* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I forgot to add, I am using Componet Video cables for the HD. Is it possible that it can't output on Component Video and S-Video at the same time? Would it work if I switched the HD to the Digital DVI hookup? I also ran a RCA video cable from the VCR Archive outputs and those don't work either. This is really starting to drive me crazy.



First off, I don't think both component and s-video are live at the same time. More importantly, in the setup wizard you need to tell the SA8000HD that you are a "standard screen HDTV" (as opposed to widescreen HDTV or standard screen SDTV) as per page 5 of the setup pdf/manual. Assuming you did that, and still get sidebars on 4:3, the box is then defective.


Ted


P.S. Paule123 or other WOW users - Any news when WOW cable will add any new HD channels?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PlantaTree* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also ran a RCA video cable from the VCR Archive outputs and those don't work either.



On the SA8000HD, to get the VCR archive outputs to work on live TV, you have to turn PIP on with the remote, and then you'll get the PIP channel out on the archive jacks.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> P.S. Paule123 or other WOW users - Any news when WOW cable will add any new HD channels?



No news. I keep badgering them about adding ESPN2HD and they keep coming back with the Sgt. Schultz answer "we know nothing" or "please sumbit your request to add a new channel through the website"


----------



## Phoenix2088

I was told by WOW's Cleveland Manager that the HD channel they are considering is TNT-HD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was told by WOW's Cleveland Manager that the HD channel they are considering is TNT-HD.



Hey that's great, now that the NBA playoffs are over... Doh.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if Adelphia uses transmits full bandwidth on their HD channels?
> 
> 
> JP



I have a tuner that receives both OTA and unencrypted QAM. I think the picture quality from the antenna is slightly better than the cable, at least for the local channels. If I didn't have the antenna, I'd be perfectly happy with the cable signal.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techweb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PSIP data on my STB identifies 43-2 as being "The Tube."



Sweet! More free tv. It's not like WUAB is using the bandwidth anyway.


----------



## rluyster

However it's too bad that all "The Tube" programming seems to be centered around the same old rock/pop crap that already saturates the media. There are some of us out here that prefer other kinds of music like jazz, classical, big band, standards etc. How about a channel for us?


----------



## PlantaTree

I have tried everything. The aspect ratio in the box is set to standard tv and to view HD material as letterbox. I would think that the box would know to show standard shows as full screen?


I have tried everything with cables. I have pulled the component cables and tried it with only the S video. No picture on my tv this way. The only thing that I haven't tried is the coax hookup, but probably wont bother. The tech is coming out tomorrow. If he can't make this work then I am probably going to go back to Directv. My only other option is to drop the HD and just go with a standard box with DVR. The Directv still has a far superior picture to cable though even on the digital channels. I just wont have HD. I don't feel like paying all that money for a box and have to put a antena on my roof.


If anyone has the HD8000 box and can figure out how to make this work let me know.


----------



## hookbill

Tell him to bring an 8300 box for you. That should solve your problem.


----------



## Inundated

Just did a rescan on my OTA box, and sure enough, WUAB has added "43-2", identified as "Tube", the music video network Raycom agreed to carry a while back. The subchannel still has color bars, though.


I'm still trying to figure out how stations in the market are getting away without feeding program info on their PSIP feeds. Right now, the only stations I get that are doing it are WEWS 5-1 (new, after the rescan which moved it out of 15-1), WUAB 43-1, and WQHS 61-1. WDLI 17-1 (and 17-2-4) used to do it, but doesn't anymore. Ditto with WOIO 19-1. WJW 8-1 has never done it. WKYC 3-1 did it last I was able to receive them.


I thought this was all required by the FCC now?


----------



## hookbill

As I mentioned before it seems Adelphia now has the box turn on at channel 3 every time you turn it off. In the morning they usually have news and a couple of times I've gone to rewind a story and it doesn't seem to be recording. I actually have to change the channel or activate pip to make the auto record feature work so you can pause, rewind etc.


Anyone else notice this?


----------



## jtscherne

I finally left cable, moving to Dish Network. Unfortunately, I lost the HD locals because of the move. My house has an antenna on the roof from the previous owner, but it isn't currently connected (the line was cut). Before I see about getting it re-connected, what are my chances of getting all the locals with this antenna? I live in South Euclid and there aren't any tall buildings near me. Antennaweb shows that only WOIO might be difficult. Anyone else in this area getting locals? I don't know anything about the antenna itself. Thanks for any opinions...


----------



## Inundated

Don't we have a semi-regular in here from the Euclid area?


Without knowing much about the antenna, I'm guessing you shouldn't have much problem getting the locals from South Euclid with a rooftop antenna. You're not that much farther from Parma than I am, and I'm getting everybody save for WKYC with no problems with an indoor antenna in a second floor loft.


WOIO's a little trickier than the UHF-based local DT stations for me, but as I said, I'm using an indoor antenna. WKYC is tricky for just about everyone in the market due to its awful low-VHF position (DT 2). With a rooftop antenna and no tall buildings around, you should have a better shot than I do.


Everybody else - WEWS, WJW, WUAB - shouldn't be difficult to catch at all. (WVIZ is low-power from Brookpark Road until later this summer.)


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO's a little trickier than the UHF-based local DT stations for me, but as I said, I'm using an indoor antenna. WKYC is tricky for just about everyone in the market due to its awful low-VHF position (DT 2). With a rooftop antenna and no tall buildings around, you should have a better shot than I do.



Actually I finally get WKYC now since the antenna was placed in the attic. I get five to six bars consistently now. It's a moderate but consistent signal. The key is height... atleast at my location.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I finally get WKYC now since the antenna was placed in the attic. I get five to six bars consistently now. It's a moderate but consistent signal. The key is height... atleast at my location.



For how long? I had a period over a three-day holiday weekend that I got WKYC with a pretty strong, steady signal, but the following Tuesday, it went away. As noted, DT channel 2 is very susceptible to electrical interference, and I often suspect that as businesses/industrial firms power up for the workweek, it hurts the signal.


I also forget what kind of antenna you're using...is it a big outdoor one or indoor? And if I'm remembering right, you're in the Valley...


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't we have a semi-regular in here from the Euclid area?



For the most part, Euclid and South Euclid aren't very close to each other. They may touch along a small part of their respective borders, but most of Euclid is in the lower elevation area along Lake Erie, while most of South Euclid is in the middle of the Heights area - surrounded by Cleveland Heights, University Heights, Lyndhurst, and Highland Heights. So they are not only apart geographically, but also have rather different terrain.


When I lived in South Euclid, I got great analog reception from a simple stationary antenna on my roof. I suspect that jtscherne will find that his antenna pulls in all of the Cleveland locals except for WVIZDT.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For how long? I had a period over a three-day holiday weekend that I got WKYC with a pretty strong, steady signal, but the following Tuesday, it went away. As noted, DT channel 2 is very susceptible to electrical interference, and I often suspect that as businesses/industrial firms power up for the workweek, it hurts the signal.



It was a little here and there during a small stretch when ABC was in and out too, but overall, WKYC is a consistent 5 to 6 bar reception now. I'll get a little artifacting now and then, but regardless of time of day, it's 5 to 6 bar. I use an indoor Terk HDTVi with a 10 dB amplifier, which without I can't get WKYC. And yeah, I'm at the very bottom of the valley, but have a decent view towards the northern horizon. I can't get any local Akron stations because of my location with respect to the hills. My receiver can just barely notice WVIZ, but I can't come close to reception. That'll have to wait.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For the most part, Euclid and South Euclid aren't very close to each other. They may touch along a small part of their respective borders, but most of Euclid is in the lower elevation area along Lake Erie, while most of South Euclid is in the middle of the Heights area - surrounded by Cleveland Heights, University Heights, Lyndhurst, and Highland Heights. So they are not only apart geographically, but also have rather different terrain.
> 
> 
> When I lived in South Euclid, I got great analog reception from a simple stationary antenna on my roof. I suspect that jtscherne will find that his antenna pulls in all of the Cleveland locals except for WVIZDT.



I live in Lyndhurst, and I can confirm that your suspicions are true, at least for me.


It seems like last year WVIZ was saying June of 2005 for getting the full power antenna up in North Royalton. Any news on this front? The website says spring/summer 2005.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, we'll see this afternoon. I'm getting the antenna re-attached today. I expect to be able to get Fox, WUAB, and ABC for sure (I was able to get them in Shaker Heights with an indoor antenna).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, we'll see this afternoon. I'm getting the antenna re-attached today. I expect to be able to get Fox, WUAB, and ABC for sure (I was able to get them in Shaker Heights with an indoor antenna).



I'd be surprised if you didn't get everyone save for WVIZ, and perhaps WKYC.


BTW, re: WVIZ's full power installation - didn't someone just note that they're aiming for the end of the summer? That would seem to make sense. There are no more obstacles that I know of, and last we heard from Gary at WVIZ, they were actually planning the facility (late last year).


Re: Euclid vs. South Euclid - thanks for the update. I don't get up there much, and to someone down here in Akron, they may as well be next door











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was a little here and there during a small stretch when ABC was in and out too, but overall, WKYC is a consistent 5 to 6 bar reception now. I'll get a little artifacting now and then, but regardless of time of day, it's 5 to 6 bar. I use an indoor Terk HDTVi with a 10 dB amplifier, which without I can't get WKYC. And yeah, I'm at the very bottom of the valley, but have a decent view towards the northern horizon. I can't get any local Akron stations because of my location with respect to the hills. My receiver can just barely notice WVIZ, but I can't come close to reception. That'll have to wait.



I have to turn OFF my indoor antenna's amplification, or I'll lose all the other locals. And turning it on with WKYC doesn't seem to change the situation - lots of multipathing, and not even close to a solid lock most of the time. My antenna isn't as high in the house as yours, but I'm physically much higher up than you are. Also, I have nearby trees that could be causing problems, though they don't with the other DT stations in the market.


Also, I pick up absolutely no signal on DT 26 (WVIZ), amplified or no. It doesn't even move the meter. I don't expect much out of that small stick on Brookpark Road, tho.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to turn OFF my indoor antenna's amplification, or I'll lose all the other locals. And turning it on with WKYC doesn't seem to change the situation - lots of multipathing, and not even close to a solid lock most of the time.



Funny you mention that. When I was trying the $50 Radio Shack indoor antenna, if I amplified fully in order to get WKYC, I'd lose WJW (Fox). I don't think ABC was up and running at that point yet, as it was down when I first hooked up to the HDTV signal. CBS came in still.



> Quote:
> My antenna isn't as high in the house as yours, but I'm physically much higher up than you are. Also, I have nearby trees that could be causing problems, though they don't with the other DT stations in the market.



I have a tree right in front my house. That kept me from getting a consistent lock on FOX and ABC. They'd come in, but would break up here and there. I lifted my antenna up higher, about 3 feet and all of a sudden I'm getting NBC, at night with some locking up. But Fox and ABC would artifact too much for my taste. So I moved to the other side of the house without the tree and locked all stations but WKYC and WVIZ. I think I lost all of WKYC due to cable length. When I then moved the antenna up into the attic, I was finally able to get a consistent signal for WKYC. If you can, I'd try elevating the antenna more. It's crazy but less than 8 feet made the difference of no WKYC and consistent WKYC. It isn't perfect, but it breaks up at a rate that I can accept, maybe once or twice during a one hour program, at most.



> Quote:
> Also, I pick up absolutely no signal on DT 26 (WVIZ), amplified or no. It doesn't even move the meter. I don't expect much out of that small stick on Brookpark Road, tho.



When I map the channels, the receiver stays on WVIZ for a bit longer, but in the end it says NOPE.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd be surprised if you didn't get everyone save for WVIZ, and perhaps WKYC.



It was pretty much a wasted afternoon. The guy ran a new cable from the antenna into a side window so we could check. When I ran a scan, I only got two channels: WKYC and WOIO (both VERY strong), but none of the UHF stations... He worked with some other antennas, but we never were able to get any others.


There's a pretty big tree right in the sight line of the antenna, but I was disappointed that I couldn't get anything else and I didn't have him run the line permanently. Unfortunately, it didn't help that I knew more about digital signals than the installer did.


So basically, I didn't do anything more. I still am surprised about the lack of UHF signals, but I'm going to let it go for now. I may see about finding another technician who might be better able to help, or even run the line myself.


----------



## rlockshin

Call Cleveland Antenna Service 440-237-6888. Jim West will answer and send his son Joel. If problem is fixable;he will do it. Highly recommend this company. I am very fussy with my TV reception, and they did well by me. Let me know how they do for you.

Other readers with antenna problems, call JIm


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So basically, I didn't do anything more. I still am surprised about the lack of UHF signals, but I'm going to let it go for now. I may see about finding another technician who might be better able to help, or even run the line myself.



That is surprising. What kind of antenna are we talking here? Maybe it's VHF only?


Still, you shouldn't have any problems with the UHF signals if you're getting WKYC and WOIO that strong. They're all in the same area, antenna-wise! Every Cleveland market DT station (save for the temporary WVIZ setup and Akron's WEAO/Canton's WDLI) is within a couple miles or so of each other in the Parma area.


Good luck to you in getting someone more qualified to help ya out. I'd be surprised if you aren't able to get the rest of 'em at some point.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS-DT was off for a while earlier this evening, but it's back now. It also kicked off for about 5 minutes during last night's NBA Championship game.


----------



## jtscherne

Thanks for the referral rlockshin.


I also think if I had taken more time to look for the channels, rather than just autoscanning, I might have found more. I'm going to keep trying.


----------



## rlockshin

You are very welome. Joe will check signal strength with a special instrument that measures digital signal strength. Then you go in the house and he makes minor adjustments as you look for the picture


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was pretty much a wasted afternoon. The guy ran a new cable from the antenna into a side window so we could check. When I ran a scan, I only got two channels: WKYC and WOIO (both VERY strong), but none of the UHF stations... He worked with some other antennas, but we never were able to get any others.
> 
> 
> So basically, I didn't do anything more. I still am surprised about the lack of UHF signals, but I'm going to let it go for now. I may see about finding another technician who might be better able to help, or even run the line myself.



So you got the two lowest frequency broadcasts, but none of the UHF ones? That sure sounds suspicious. I'd try it again with a known quality VHF/UHF antenna and a good piece of RG6 cable. Some of those old South Euclid antennas may reach all the way back to the days before UHF was on the air.


----------



## Inundated

Is anyone else noticing a problem in WEWS's upconverting and stretching equipment?


Any upconverting/stretching they do, I'm getting a black bar on the right side of the 16:9 screen. It's like they're not filling the entire widescreen with the upconvert. It fills out to the left OK.


I notice this on both my SA 8000HD cable box and my US Digital OTA box.


Of course, as I'm sure Hookbill will point out (







), I am downconverting both boxes to 480i and displaying it on my (still pretty good) Toshiba analog 32" set. But I do not believe the set or the 480i downconvert has anything to do with it. WEWS didn't have this problem before the past couple or three days, and WKYC does not have the same problem when it upconverts and stretches material on both of the same boxes.


Anyone else notice this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else noticing a problem in WEWS's upconverting and stretching equipment?
> 
> 
> Any upconverting/stretching they do, I'm getting a black bar on the right side of the 16:9 screen. It's like they're not filling the entire widescreen with the upconvert. It fills out to the left OK.
> 
> 
> I notice this on both my SA 8000HD cable box and my US Digital OTA box.
> 
> 
> Of course, as I'm sure Hookbill will point out (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), I am downconverting both boxes to 480i and displaying it on my (still pretty good) Toshiba analog 32" set. But I do not believe the set or the 480i downconvert has anything to do with it. WEWS didn't have this problem before the past couple or three days, and WKYC does not have the same problem when it upconverts and stretches material on both of the same boxes.
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice this?



I've just taken a look at "Good Morning America" on WEWS HD and I'm seeing a thin bar on each side of the screen. I actually prefer this as the people arn't appearing as fat.


Hope you feel better.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

just depends how much overscan you have on your set, it is clearly different from the way it used to be, its definately less stretched, i have bars on both sides of the screen, you have more overscan so you only have a bar on the right.


----------



## Phoenix2088

WEWS doesn't know what they are doing. First they had this horrible stretch, that left about an inch on each side blank, on my set anyway. Then they took off the stretch, which is they way it should have stayed. Now they are using this half stretch. Why can't they just make up their mind.


----------



## Inundated

It's probably the scanning on my set that makes it appear mostly on the right, but it is most assuredly there. And as such, when I kick the cable box into "stretch" (which actually squishes 16:9 to 4:3!), it makes the picture look a little skinnier than it should. Though, it's not as bad as if I use "stretch" (squish, as it were) on a true 16:9 HD picture.


And yes, the bars make the widescreen picture look less "squatty" in letterbox mode. I can almost live with that, though the 16:9 to 4:3 squeeze looked pretty good when the stretch is done "right".


I wrote WEWS about this, but they haven't responded. I guess I'll live with it. I agree that they should just turn off stretch-o-vision entirely.


----------



## Shark73

Any Adelphia subs having problems with ESPNHD or StarzHD? All the other channels are fine but those two keep breaking up.


Thanks,


JP


----------



## gass

[And yes, the bars make the widescreen picture look less "squatty" in letterbox mode. I can almost live with that, though the 16:9 to 4:3 squeeze looked pretty good when the stretch is done "right".]



I have the same issue here in Portage Co. Trust me, they never respond to anything. Their CE ignors every letter. They get that way you know.


On another note: I have lost WUAB=DT OTA entirely; now that Enterprise is gone I don't care too much, but it used to come in wall to wall. Are they "upgrading"?


----------



## Phoenix2088

I was in email contact with the station manager at WEWS. He said he would look into the stretch issue about 2 months ago or so. I guess this is what they came up with.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gass* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On another note: I have lost WUAB=DT OTA entirely; now that Enterprise is gone I don't care too much, but it used to come in wall to wall. Are they "upgrading"?



It appears WUAB is adding a sub-channel, a music channel I think. They probably just screwed something up, I'd try re-scanning tomorrow.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any Adelphia subs having problems with ESPNHD or StarzHD? All the other channels are fine but those two keep breaking up.



I haven't seen any problems on ESPNHD. I don't get Starz...


----------



## gass




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It appears WUAB is adding a sub-channel, a music channel I think. They probably just screwed something up, I'd try re-scanning tomorrow.



You're right, it think its called FUSE, which I already get on Directv.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any problems on ESPNHD. I don't get Starz...



Thanks...the problem cleared up around 8pm.


----------



## Italians

To throw my two cents in on the the antennae thing...had an old one in the attic and ran a line for it to where my Dish receiver currently is. I live in western North Olmsted and could barely pull 2 or 3 stations. I had previously purchased the HDTV from Terk and had it pulling in the same amount of stations having it positioned behind the tv. I put the TERK in the attic and hooked up the line and BINGO!!! I get 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1 and 2 and 61.1 all with over 90% signal.

Just some info for anyone wondering. I was as surprised as anyone that the TERK WAY outperformed the older bigger aerial, but facts are facts and now i can finally watch TV the way it supposed to be watched!!


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gass* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're right, it think its called FUSE, which I already get on Directv.



No, it's "The Tube". Still just testing with color bars. IMO, the color bars will probably be preferable to the rock/pop music they're supposed to carry as programming.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Italians* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just some info for anyone wondering. I was as surprised as anyone that the TERK WAY outperformed the older bigger aerial, but facts are facts and now i can finally watch TV the way it supposed to be watched!!



Which Terk model was this? Is it the HDTVi? (Silver Sensor clone with VHF rabbit ears) Sounds like it, if you had it by the TV.


I don't know which old antenna you had up there, and I'm not an antenna expert, so I can't say why it happened for you that way. Generally speaking, Terk antennas aren't worth the cardboard boxes they're packaged in. (With one exception - the Terk rebranded version of the SquareShooter...but even then, you pay $50 extra for the ability to pick it up at Best Buy.)


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which Terk model was this? Is it the HDTVi? (Silver Sensor clone with VHF rabbit ears) Sounds like it, if you had it by the TV.
> 
> 
> I don't know which old antenna you had up there, and I'm not an antenna expert, so I can't say why it happened for you that way. Generally speaking, Terk antennas aren't worth the cardboard boxes they're packaged in. (With one exception - the Terk rebranded version of the SquareShooter...but even then, you pay $50 extra for the ability to pick it up at Best Buy.)



I agree for the most part, though with my HDTVi, _I'm_ picking up WKYC.







*nudge nudge*


----------



## jtscherne

Well, Joel West came out on Friday and took his meter up on the roof. Basically, he stated that I SHOULD be able to pick up everything with little trouble, yet his meter indicated sporadic signals, indicating interference from someplace. He was able to get good signals, but had to move tha antenna around to do it. He suggested a new antenna with a rotor. I'm going to go ahead and do it, since there's no way of telling when Dish Network will get the HD locals (they're claiming early next year, but who knows what that means?)


----------



## rlockshin

I am glad that you were pleased with Joe ; I thought he knew what he was doing. Please keep us posted on the new antenna and rotor. Hopefully, it will solve your problems.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, Joel West came out on Friday and took his meter up on the roof. Basically, he stated that I SHOULD be able to pick up everything with little trouble, yet his meter indicated sporadic signals, indicating interference from someplace. He was able to get good signals, but had to move tha antenna around to do it. He suggested a new antenna with a rotor. I'm going to go ahead and do it, since there's no way of telling when Dish Network will get the HD locals (they're claiming early next year, but who knows what that means?)



I'm just curious jtscherne. Why did you pick Dish? I would have choosen D*.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree for the most part, though with my HDTVi, _I'm_ picking up WKYC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *nudge nudge*



At this rate, I'm almost gonna pick one up just to see if I can get WKYC regularly.







It might be worth it, as the rest of the antenna would have to be pretty bad not to get the UHF DT locals here. I get a really strong signal out of the DT versions of 5, 8, 43, 49 and 61, and generally have no problems with the DT side of 19.


I can always return it if I don't get WKYC.


Oh, and good luck to you on that antenna, jts! It would almost have to be some sort of interference or pointing issue. I bet whoever had that up there before didn't do a lot of pointing for the analog stations.


----------



## DaMavs

Anyone else lose 5-1 around 11:30 during the NBA finals? I get mine OTA & was wondering if it was their problem or mine. Looks like a short glitch as after going to non-HD 5 for a few minutes the signal was back at the next TO...


----------



## Inundated

I tuned in just past that point, so I must have missed it. But WEWS-DT did go off the air for about 5 minutes during a previous NBA Finals game, at around the same-ish time, oddly enough.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tuned in just past that point, so I must have missed it. But WEWS-DT did go off the air for about 5 minutes during a previous NBA Finals game, at around the same-ish time, oddly enough.



It was fairly short - I got a picture freeze, huge pixellation & a very slowly changing picture, before switching to analog 5. First time I came back, I got a "signal not found", but the next commercial it was all good. 5 minutes tops, likely less.


I wonder if around 11:30 something is set to switch over automatically which gives their NBA feed trouble? Kinda' like how they'd switch to stretch-SD for Monday night football around midnight during a lot of games. 'Course killing your HD feed is a far cry from an auto-switch to stretch SD...


Overall the finals have looked very nice in HD though.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I get short, sporadic drop-outs on WEWS. I think they are having problems at the transmitter. I'm only ~3 miles from their State Rd. site, and I did not have any problems for the first few months I had a 921. All the problems began when they changed their PSIP data back around March (when they temporally lost the mapping to 5.1).


Anyone else having problems with audio on 61.1? I realize few here speak Spanish, but the audio on 61.1 is broken up, I only hear sound 1/3 of the time. Been that way for some time now, perhaps a week or two.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems with audio on 61.1? I realize few here speak Spanish, but the audio on 61.1 is broken up, I only hear sound 1/3 of the time. Been that way for some time now, perhaps a week or two.



Yeah, it seems to be on-off-on-off and certainly not watchable. Univision is my soccer channel, but that is about it.


----------



## Inundated

WQHS-DT's audio has always been MUCH louder than any other digital station on my STB. I have to dive for the volume control every time I tune past them!


Since I also don't speak Espanol, I haven't paid much attention to whether their audio has problems or not. But the fact it is always significantly louder than all the other local DT stations may mean something.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm just curious jtscherne. Why did you pick Dish? I would have choosen D*.



Sorry about the delay. Didn't get any emails, so I didn't know there were responses!


The main reason I chose Dish is because they picked up Voom. They have basically the same other HD channels (Dish has TNT, D* has Universal). The only other thing that D* has is NFL Sunday Ticket, which doesn't interest me (I'm seldom home on Sundays so wouldn't get much out of it).


Antenna installation is Friday afternoon, so hopefully the saga will end soon!


----------



## rlockshin

Keep us posted on the antenna. I only refer good people and Joe West knows his stuff

You should be happy.


----------



## yespage

Looks like The Tube is broadcasting. Not the greatest music, but it's something for up OTA people.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, I'm now getting all locals over the air, with the exception of WVIZ. I'm also not able to get PBS out of Akron, but I didn't expect that.


All coming in at good strength (with WJW the lowest, although still good signal).


Installation went smoothly. so all is well...


End of Saga!!


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I'm now getting all locals over the air, with the exception of WVIZ. I'm also not able to get PBS out of Akron, but I didn't expect that.
> 
> 
> All coming in at good strength (with WJW the lowest, although still good signal).
> 
> 
> Installation went smoothly. so all is well...
> 
> 
> End of Saga!!



So Joe West came thru for you. I am very happy for you. I thought that if anybody could fix your problem, he was the one. I also was very pleased with his work. He adjusted my satellite and OTA antennas. We are lucky to have someone of that caliber available to us.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like The Tube is broadcasting. Not the greatest music, but it's something for up OTA people.



Yep, it's up and running on 43-2. I really notice the compression artifacts, it seems worse on older filmed concert footage. If I had a traditional old CRT TV, I might not notice the compression as much -- but then I probably wouldn't own a digital OTA receiver, either...


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So Joe West came thru for you. I am very happy for you. I thought that if anybody could fix your problem, he was the one. I also was very pleased with his work. He adjusted my satellite and OTA antennas. We are lucky to have someone of that caliber available to us.



The nice thing about the antenna is that because of the rotor I can scan for other channels. I moved it slightly to improve WJW (which wasn't holding steady) and picked up PBS out of Akron very strongly (high 60's) and it's coming in great!


The only channel with problems is 61 (but I don't speak Spanish anyway!). The signal is strong, but there's major audio breakup that doesn't seem to want to clear, and I don't plan on moving the antenna to do anything about it...


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only channel with problems is 61 (but I don't speak Spanish anyway!). The signal is strong, but there's major audio breakup that doesn't seem to want to clear, and I don't plan on moving the antenna to do anything about it...



The audio on 61 is on their end. The audio has been messed up for well over a week now.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The audio on 61 is on their end. The audio has been messed up for well over a week now.



That's good to know, especially since the signal strength was so good.


I'm getting great signals on WTOL (CBS out of Toledo) and WJBK (Fox out of Detroit). In fact, my Detroit signal is holding better than Fox from Cleveland!


Of course, these distants might be because of atmospheric conditions, so I'll have to see if they continue...


----------



## Shark73

I have the 8300 HD DVR from Adelphia. The box was installed about two weeks ago and I have seen a lot of video breakups on the HD channels...particularly, ESPN and Starz HD. Could the hard drive in the unit be going or is it something on Adelphia's end? Any help from those of you with Adelphia would be greatly appreciated. I was with D* and never had the amount of signal problems with ESPN HD that I'm having with Adelphia.....I'm not sure what's going on!


Thanks,


JP


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the 8300 HD DVR from Adelphia. The box was installed about two weeks ago and I have seen a lot of video breakups on the HD channels...particularly, ESPN and Starz HD. Could the hard drive in the unit be going or is it something on Adelphia's end? Any help from those of you with Adelphia would be greatly appreciated. I was with D* and never had the amount of signal problems with ESPN HD that I'm having with Adelphia.....I'm not sure what's going on!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> JP



It may be your machine does not have the latest firmware. It would be helpful if you could go to the diagnostic screen and see what version of SARA your running. If it's an older version then you should be getting an upgrade soon. Off the top of my head I can't remember what the exact version I'm running but I believe it's SARA 1.17.XX.X. iF YOU HAVE 1.14.XX.X then you simply have to wait to get an update.


Having said that don't expect too great of things from this box. It's not TiVo and you basically get what you pay for. I personally don't have STARS but I do have ESPN and I haven't noticed anything when I've looked at it. I don't believe it has anything to do with Adelphia, it's either the signal or the box.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It may be your machine does not have the latest firmware. It would be helpful if you could go to the diagnostic screen and see what version of SARA your running. If it's an older version then you should be getting an upgrade soon. Off the top of my head I can't remember what the exact version I'm running but I believe it's SARA 1.17.XX.X. iF YOU HAVE 1.14.XX.X then you simply have to wait to get an update.
> 
> 
> Having said that don't expect too great of things from this box. It's not TiVo and you basically get what you pay for. I personally don't have STARS but I do have ESPN and I haven't noticed anything when I've looked at it. I don't believe it has anything to do with Adelphia, it's either the signal or the box.



Thanks for the info...looks like I have v. 1.87.16.1


I'll have to do some reading in the DVR forum about that version. I've had this problem with ESPNHD since the install. I wanted to make sure it's not a system wide problem here in Cleveland. I'll call and see what Adelphia says.


Thanks again!


JP


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's good to know, especially since the signal strength was so good.
> 
> 
> I'm getting great signals on WTOL (CBS out of Toledo) and WJBK (Fox out of Detroit). In fact, my Detroit signal is holding better than Fox from Cleveland!
> 
> 
> Of course, these distants might be because of atmospheric conditions, so I'll have to see if they continue...




There's been a lot of strong "skip" reception lately due to atmospheric conditions. I've been receiving digital stations from Pittsburgh, Columbus, Toledo, Erie, Zanesville, Johnstown/Altoona, Mansfield quite often. Summer is the time this kind of thing is most frequently noticed. Just scan the dial, turn your rotator to the right direction and you'll be surprised what shows up every now and then.







I've been seeing a lot of other analog stations here in Canton from all over Ohio and parts of West Virginia and Pennsylvania. I keep hoping for some of the really long distance reception I used to see when I was a kid...from places like Texas, Oklahoma, Ontario and once one even coming in from Havana, Cuba! It was/is great fun.


----------



## jtscherne

I hope I hold onto the Detroit Fox station for awhile; WJW-DT is not holding well, and I've been experimenting with the rotor to find a good spot.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope I hold onto the Detroit Fox station for awhile; WJW-DT is not holding well, and I've been experimenting with the rotor to find a good spot.



Glad you get things cleared up! I generally have little problems with WJW-DT here with my indoor antenna in northwest Akron. I figure you'll find a way to fish them out there.


Re: The Tube...just turned it on now. And I DO have my STB feeding into an "old analog CRT", as many of you know. The pixellation is definitely awful on my CRT. Either they're gonna adjust up the bandwidth for 43-2, or they figure people don't really care as long as something's on the screen and the music is pumping out...


----------



## paule123

Shark73,

If you go into the diagnostic screen and look for the dBm signal level coming in, and it's in orange (red), the signal is below the threshold that the box likes. The number should be "white". On my SA8000HD with Wide Open West, in the spring when the ice melts, I get bad dB levels on the incoming signal. If I disconnect the other TVs in the house from the splitter at the house entrance, the problem goes away. (disconnecting the other TVs makes up for the loss at the tap on the pole)


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Shark73,
> 
> If you go into the diagnostic screen and look for the dBm signal level coming in, and it's in orange (red), the signal is below the threshold that the box likes. The number should be "white". On my SA8000HD with Wide Open West, in the spring when the ice melts, I get bad dB levels on the incoming signal. If I disconnect the other TVs in the house from the splitter at the house entrance, the problem goes away. (disconnecting the other TVs makes up for the loss at the tap on the pole)



So how do you get to the diagnostic screen?

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So how do you get to the diagnostic screen?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve



- turn the box on

- on the front panel, press and hold the big "+" button in the middle of the navigation buttons for 5 seconds until the Mail light comes on (that button is also called Enter/Select)

- let go of the big button and press the Info button

- use the front panel up/down navigation buttons to change channels, and the left/right buttons to scroll through the diagnostic screens. If you press the big "+" button again it changes the transparency of the diagnostics so you can see the video while viewing the diagnostic info.


You should see the dB reading change on "Tuner 1" as you go from channel to channel. For example my ESPN on WOW is at 751Mhz and reads -10dB (in the red, but still viewable picture). When I change to another channel carried on 651Mhz the dB reading jumps to +3dB (in white)


If I remember correctly I start losing my HD channels below about -17 to -20dB.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re: The Tube...just turned it on now. And I DO have my STB feeding into an "old analog CRT", as many of you know. The pixellation is definitely awful on my CRT. Either they're gonna adjust up the bandwidth for 43-2, or they figure people don't really care as long as something's on the screen and the music is pumping out...



I have the same setup, and it doesn't look pretty. I can only imagine what it'd look like on an expensive set.







The audio itself isn't too clean either. Hopefully it's a work in progress.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the same setup, and it doesn't look pretty. I can only imagine what it'd look like on an expensive set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The audio itself isn't too clean either. Hopefully it's a work in progress.



Considering that I don't think I'll spend any time with "The Tube" anyway, they could have the worst picture and sound and I wouldn't really care










The problem is noticeable even to the untrained eye, especially when the music video has a lot of motion or quick camera cuts.


----------



## DCSholtis

Anyone notice 25-2 now?? I did a scan on my HDTivo last night and it came up. Of course I get no signal yet. C'mon WVIZ finish your antenna already!!


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> - turn the box on
> 
> - on the front panel, press and hold the big "+" button in the middle of the navigation buttons for 5 seconds until the Mail light comes on (that button is also called Enter/Select)
> 
> - let go of the big button and press the Info button
> 
> - use the front panel up/down navigation buttons to change channels, and the left/right buttons to scroll through the diagnostic screens. If you press the big "+" button again it changes the transparency of the diagnostics so you can see the video while viewing the diagnostic info.
> 
> 
> You should see the dB reading change on "Tuner 1" as you go from channel to channel. For example my ESPN on WOW is at 751Mhz and reads -10dB (in the red, but still viewable picture). When I change to another channel carried on 651Mhz the dB reading jumps to +3dB (in white)
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly I start losing my HD channels below about -17 to -20dB.



Ok, ESPN HD from Adelphia reads 645 MHz and -12dBmV...currently I have no picture at all. Starz HD is at 645 MHZ and -12 dBmV as well....again with no picture. The other HD channels are fine...with HDNet reading at 687 and -11


I've also lost all signals for the SD HBO channels in the 200 range. They read 561 MHz and -15 dBmV.


Looks like I need to call Adelphia to see what's wrong. Does anyone have a contact at Adelphia? I no the CSR will tell me to uplug the box and that's about all they will be able to do.


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## rlockshin

It has been scanning for about 6 months now. If PBS is important to you , try Ch 50-1 in Akron. You could put up a small antenna to receive it aimed south. I have it and there really is not that much that I watch on it


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, ESPN HD from Adelphia reads 645 MHz and -12dBmV...currently I have no picture at all. Starz HD is at 645 MHZ and -12 dBmV as well....again with no picture. The other HD channels are fine...with HDNet reading at 687 and -11
> 
> 
> I've also lost all signals for the SD HBO channels in the 200 range. They read 561 MHz and -15 dBmV.
> 
> 
> Looks like I need to call Adelphia to see what's wrong. Does anyone have a contact at Adelphia? I no the CSR will tell me to uplug the box and that's about all they will be able to do.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jim




Jim, I have both ESPN HD AND ESPN2 HD right now no problem. Picture and sound.


I think you should have someone come out to look at it. And I usually don't make that recommendation unless it's a last resort.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone notice 25-2 now?? I did a scan on my HDTivo last night and it came up. Of course I get no signal yet. C'mon WVIZ finish your antenna already!!



Verrry interesting - I checked the titantv.com listings and we now have:


WVIZDT1

PBS 25.1 (standard WVIZ schedule)


WVIZDT3

PBS 25.2 "Ohio Channel" whatever that is


WVIZDT2

PBS 25.10 "programming unavailable"


Is this channel lineup new, or has it been this way since they've been broadcasting from the little antenna? I honestly haven't paid attention since I can't pick up their signal anyway...


----------



## rlockshin

WEWS 5.1 Where art thou ? It seems to be dead again. Anyone else have it MIA ?


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEWS 5.1 Where art thou ? It seems to be dead again. Anyone else have it MIA ?



It's not coming in OTA for me.


----------



## rlockshin

Glad to hear that it is not me. What is wrong with the engineers at WEWS ? Their signal is down more than all of the other channels combined.

Also when are WEWS and WOIO going to broadcast in 5.1


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Verrry interesting - I checked the titantv.com listings and we now have:
> 
> 
> WVIZDT1
> 
> PBS 25.1 (standard WVIZ schedule)
> 
> 
> WVIZDT3
> 
> PBS 25.2 "Ohio Channel" whatever that is
> 
> 
> WVIZDT2
> 
> PBS 25.10 "programming unavailable"
> 
> 
> Is this channel lineup new, or has it been this way since they've been broadcasting from the little antenna? I honestly haven't paid attention since I can't pick up their signal anyway...



Seems the programming on 25-2 is from 9am to 5pm not sure if its new as I just did my rescan about a week ago and saw it there....Not picking up a 25-3 here on another rescan but Im like you cant pick up the signal yet.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Verrry interesting - I checked the titantv.com listings and we now have:
> 
> 
> WVIZDT1
> 
> PBS 25.1 (standard WVIZ schedule)
> 
> 
> I'm not sure, seems like they switch to PBS-HD around 10AM while VIZ keeps playing
> 
> Childrens shows .
> 
> 
> WVIZDT3
> 
> PBS 25.2 "Ohio Channel" whatever that is
> 
> 
> They play a lot of ststewide "Metropolitan Club" meetings and such. On weekends
> 
> sometimes they have tourist attractions in ohio. A lot of Ohio History Also
> 
> 
> WVIZDT2
> 
> PBS 25.10 "programming unavailable"
> 
> 
> This maps out to 25-9 on my DTC100 and is CRRS "Cleveland reads". Volenteers I assume read articles from the PD, New York times, etc. According to the ATSB Standard
> 
> Channels XX-01 to -09 are reserved for programming and channels XX-10 to -99 are for
> 
> Data. There is no video on this channel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this channel lineup new, or has it been this way since they've been broadcasting from the little antenna? I honestly haven't paid attention since I can't pick up their signal anyway...



I can't recall If this has been "The standard" since they began "Broadcasting" last August

From Brookpark RD. I think the Ohio Channel is "New" as of last December. or so.


Channel 26 is a solid 60+ here but I still get a lot of dropouts on CRRS..


As far as WEWS goes I agree, they are having a lot of trouble keeping that thing on the air.

but WXYZ -HD comes in solid here right now its at 45 and steady.. Give it a try. When I

re-scan while pointed at 26 my set loads up with a bunch of Detroit and Canadian stations

WDIV, WJBK,WXYZ. WXYZ has a couple of subchannels local radar, and a towercam.


/Dan


----------



## Inundated

The CRRS feed at least used to be on the analog WVIZ/25 SAP. I say "at least used to be" because I couldn't get it last time I tried...


----------



## bslep

I haven't been able to get WEWS Channel 5.1 OTA for three weeks. The weird part is that my OTA receiver shows the signal at 88% with no picture. What's up with that? I also have cable HD and it comes in fine there. Glad to see that it's their problem and not mine - I think.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bslep* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to get WEWS Channel 5.1 OTA for three weeks. The weird part is that my OTA receiver shows the signal at 88% with no picture. What's up with that? I also have cable HD and it comes in fine there. Glad to see that it's their problem and not mine - I think.



I'm not much on OTA receivers, but common sense tells me that if you can get it on cable and not OTA, then I don't think it's their problem. I think it's your receiver or antennae.


Again, I'm not an OTA person.....This is just what makes sense.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bslep* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to get WEWS Channel 5.1 OTA for three weeks. The weird part is that my OTA receiver shows the signal at 88% with no picture. What's up with that? I also have cable HD and it comes in fine there. Glad to see that it's their problem and not mine - I think.



I'm getting it OTA with no problem. It was off a few days back, but only briefly.


----------



## SteveC

I watched Empire last night on WEWS-DT(via TWC). Other than a couple momentary drop outs, it was fine. I did not check the OTA signal though.

Steve


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not much on OTA receivers, but common sense tells me that if you can get it on cable and not OTA, then I don't think it's their problem. I think it's your receiver or antennae.
> 
> 
> Again, I'm not an OTA person.....This is just what makes sense.



That would be one possible logical conclusion. Another would be that the feed to the cable provider is OK but there is some issue with the OTA transmitter (assuming the cable providers don't get their signal from the OTA transmitter, of course).










WEWS-DT is easily the most problematic OTA station for me and, like bslep, I have had more trouble than usual pulling it in over the last few weeks. 3, 8, 19, and 43 have been relatively stable.


----------



## jtscherne

Fox 8 is still elusive for me. I get a more stable signal from the Fox station in Detroit, especially when I turn the antenna west. I have yet to find a good spot to get a consistent signal from WJW. Of course, if I thought I'd continue to get Detroit Fox, I wouldn't care, so time will tell. WOIO is also somewhat tricky. WEWS is ok, although I'm still working on finding the best antenna spot for it...


----------



## vinyal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fox 8 is still elusive for me. I get a more stable signal from the Fox station in Detroit, especially when I turn the antenna west. I have yet to find a good spot to get a consistent signal from WJW. Of course, if I thought I'd continue to get Detroit Fox, I wouldn't care, so time will tell. WOIO is also somewhat tricky. WEWS is ok, although I'm still working on finding the best antenna spot for it...



I live in Canton ohio 38 miles from the towers and fox 8 has been rock solid ever since i have been using OTA(1YR) Rock solid signal and excellent picture quality with max reliability. ABC WEWS 5.1 USED to be very stable for me for a while but now it is a pleasant surprise if i can get it. I am getting used to living without it since it is so inconsistent. Hopefully it will be fixed by the time the football season begins!!


Vivek


----------



## bslep

Hookbill, you may be right. I did get a new OTA receiver last month, but initially I was getting WEWS with no problems whatsoever. I think I'm going to have to play with the antenna a bit. I've been waiting for this heat spell to pass before I go up into the attic, though. Bob


----------



## hookbill

Well, I recorded "Empire" the other day on WEWS and watched it last night. I have to admit I did see a lot of gliches. Pixelation. Frozen pictures. Sound drop off.


Does seem they have some transmission problems.


----------



## jtscherne

Looks like Channel 61-DT finally fixed their audio. Just FYI.


Also, this morning, Fox was coming in like gangbusters! I wish I knew what was making the difference...


----------



## gnalmij




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fox 8 is still elusive for me. I get a more stable signal from the Fox station in Detroit, especially when I turn the antenna west. I have yet to find a good spot to get a consistent signal from WJW. Of course, if I thought I'd continue to get Detroit Fox, I wouldn't care, so time will tell. WOIO is also somewhat tricky. WEWS is ok, although I'm still working on finding the best antenna spot for it...



Fox 8 also has been my problem channel since going OTA over 1 year ago. I thought I was the only one. I'm probably just a bit south of you in U Heights. While many have complained about picking up the local NBC or CBS affiliates, they've always worked for me. Fox 8 works sometimes, but is unwatchable most of the time. I don't miss it because I have Directv and get the Fox HD feed from NY. As with others, I've also had the occasional pixelation with WEWS over the last few months, although it was rock solid when I started watching. I may try tweaking my antenna direction at some point.


----------



## jtbell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, this morning, Fox was coming in like gangbusters! I wish I knew what was making the difference...



It might have something to do with today being the FCC's deadline for digital stations to start transmitting at full power.










(No, I can't pick up any Ohio stations where I am. I'm just looking in to see what's happening "back home." I grew up in NE Ohio a few decades ago.)


----------



## jtscherne

Of course, now this afternoon Fox is spotty again and WEWS is booming in! I must be in the twilight zone...


----------



## Inundated

I'm pretty sure FOX 8 has been at full power on DT 31 for months, ditto with WEWS on DT 15.


The WEWS problems seem to be ongoing with their equipment.


As for me, though I usually watch the DT stations on Adelphia, I rarely have problems with WJW-DT 31. My only major OTA problem child is WKYC-DT 2 for obvious reasons.


Indoor antenna aiming out a large 2nd floor loft window, just under 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm.


BTW, I'm pretty sure Adelphia picks up the DT stations directly from the OTA signal. WEWS is always down on Adelphia when it's down OTA, and WVIZ's engineering staff tells me that Adelphia picks up even the low-power signal on DT 26 from OTA. (It helps when they have those Really Big Cable TV Receiving Antennas at the headend!)


----------



## paule123

According to the TitanTV schedule, WVIZ has it in HD on the weenie transmitter (which I can't pick it up) and WEAO (which I can get OTA) is putting it on their SD subchannel, not the HD subchannel. Aaargh.


Any chance WEAO might change their minds and put this on the HD channel Monday night? It really would be a wonderful HD showcase.


----------



## Inundated

I'd guess TitanTV is wrong here.


As far as I know, WEAO runs the 24/7 national PBS HD feed on 50.1. And I'll assume that PBS itself is putting the event on that feed. So, I'd be surprised if WEAO was NOT running that on 50.1 tomorrow night...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd guess TitanTV is wrong here.
> 
> 
> As far as I know, WEAO runs the 24/7 national PBS HD feed on 50.1. And I'll assume that PBS itself is putting the event on that feed. So, I'd be surprised if WEAO was NOT running that on 50.1 tomorrow night...



I just checked the pbs.org schedule directly and you're right, they will be carrying the fireworks at 8pm on WEAO's HD channel:

http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index...ort=&provider= 


It's too bad TitanTV can't get better guide data than showing "Annenberg CPB Channel" 24/7 every day of the week...


----------



## jdswimm

KDKA CBS 2 Pittsburgh, has been a mess since WKYC DT 2 signed on. Time Warner Cable carries KDKA on our system. TWC told me that they are trying to get direct feed from KDKA . I think they only way they can get that is from Adelphia or Comcast in Western PA.


Any problems of KDKA's HD signal effecting WVIZ PBS?

Also WPGH FOX 53 Pittsburgh, has their HD on Channel 43. Any effects on WUAB up in the Cleveland area?


Currently TWC carries the follow HD channels in Columbiana County OH

502. KDKA (OTA channel 25 HD)

508. WJW (OTA channel 31 HD)

524. WFMJ (OTA channel 20 HD) they carry WBCB WB on 21.2

533. WYTV (OTA channel 36)

544. WUAB (OTA channel 28)

549. WNEO HD (OTA channel 46)

550. WNEO Digital


----------



## ahartman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course, now this afternoon Fox is spotty again and WEWS is booming in! I must be in the twilight zone...



I just got my antenna hooked up and I can get just about everything but ABC 5-1 OTA. But reading about the station's issues, I'm not sure if it's my setup or them.


I'm in Strongsville and my antenna points more towards North than it does towards Parma (wanted to try to keep it on the out-of-sight side of the house).


Since I'm getting all the other networks, I'm inclined to believe it's not my setup since they're all in the same direction (and presumably if one is not being received, more would have an issue), but who knows.


Worse comes to worse, I can always move my antenna to the 'proper' side of the house, but I hate to get back up on the ladder if I don't need to!


Terk TV-55 piped directly into my HD-Tivo.


Thanks!


----------



## Phoenix2088

Not getting WEWS DT over WOW cable either. It looks like a station issue.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm getting audio for WEWS-DT OTA, but no video! (10:20 p.m.)


----------



## rlockshin

OTA on 5.1 is dead again. Why cant they fix their problem once and for all. When it is on I get 93% strength. They owe us dolby digital sound for all of their continued problems. Anyone know how soon ABC and CBS will give us 5.1 sound? Other smaller towns have it.


----------



## rlockshin

I have audio also,no video. Audio just popped on. Are you still happy with Joe West?


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Strongsville and my antenna points more towards North than it does towards Parma (wanted to try to keep it on the out-of-sight side of the house).
> 
> 
> Worse comes to worse, I can always move my antenna to the 'proper' side of the house, but I hate to get back up on the ladder if I don't need to!
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Before you get back up on the ladder, I'm not sure which part of S'ville you're in, but I live near the center of town and get 3, 5, 8, 19, 43, and 61 full-strength with an indoor Zenith Silver Sensor antenna pointed out the window towards Parma. You may want to pick one up at Sears and give it a try if you have issues with your outdoor antenna and its orientation.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Before you get back up on the ladder, I'm not sure which part of S'ville you're in, but I live near the center of town and get 3, 5, 8, 19, 43, and 61 full-strength with an indoor Zenith Silver Sensor antenna pointed out the window towards Parma. You may want to pick one up at Sears and give it a try if you have issues with your outdoor antenna and its orientation.



I have a Silver Sensor hooked-up to an Echostar 921. It works well if you have a window to aim out, however if you have to aim through a wall the results are spotty at best. Both my old and new houses have aluminum siding so I attribute the siding to the spotty results.


I was able to lock onto WFMJ-DT 20 from Youngstown at my old house in Seven Hills occasionally, and got the analog 21 every day. When the "skip" was up I locked onto WPXI-DT 48 (analog 11 NBC from Pittsburgh). All this through a window.


----------



## paule123

In case anyone was wondering, Browns pre-season games on WOIO will not be HD. I emailed the programming department yesterday and that was the response.


Does anyone know from other threads here whether CBS is stepping up to the plate for the regular season and having more than 3 games a week in HD? or are we AFC fans still second class citizens?


----------



## fearthemullett

i live in Dover, about 80 miles south of CLE - am eligible for HD locals for everyone but CBS - WOIO denied the waiver -


1)Can I even get an HD signal OTA 80 miles away?


2)How would I go about appealing the denied waiver?


3) With NFL/NCAA coming up, I want to be sure to get the Browns and SEC in HD this fall - what avenues are available if CBS plays hardball? Do I have any legal standing (i.e. they are breaking the law by not granting me a waiver?)


Any info appreciated!


----------



## Michael P 2341

80 miles is way beyond the "grade B" contour for the analog signal, as for the digital I'm not sure what,if any, criteria they use.


Have you tried to get the digital CBS signal from Pittsburgh or Steubenville/Wheeling? I know their analog signals reach Dover, I picked them up around the Leesville Lake area with a portable TV years ago.


I did a little research for you. The closest CBS affiliate to Dover is not WOIO, but WTRF-7 from Wheeling/Steubenville. The transmitter is located on the Ohio side of the river just north of Bellaire, OH (64 highway miles from Dover). Here is a coverage map for their digital signal on rf ch-32: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS616487.html 


While Dover is just beyond the contour on the map, if you are on high ground you shoud be able to lock onto the signal with a good directional UHF antenna. For example I am ~57 air miles from the Youngstown transmitters and can get a lock occasionally on WFMJ-DT and WYTV-DT (using an indoor antenna through a window). I'm sure that once I get an outside antenna these stations should come in daily (I can see their analogs daily). WKBN-DT is not yet on the air, when they do that would be another CBS you can try for (however it's 80 highway miles from Dover so WTRF still would be the closest)


Pittsburg's CBS KDKA-digital uses rf ch 25, so there may be some interference with WVIZ-TV analog. You could try it as an alternate, but WTRF seems to be your best bet.


FYI: Here is WOIO-DT's coverage map: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT428322.html 

You might be able to use this map to prove you are outside WOIO's coverage area. Send this link to your DBS provider's waiver dept. to see if it will help you get CBS-HD. WOIO-DT uses rf ch-10. There is a channel 10 in both London, Ontario and Columbus that nips away at their signal on the fringes (Columbus would affect you, while those on the south shore of Lake Erie will have issues with the Canadian signal).


BTW: I can see WOIO's tower from my backyard. They have a crappy picture on their digital signal even from here at "ground zero". (the color has a pulsation that I can only get rid of by delaying the signal a few seconds via my DVR). This pulsation may only be a problem if you are watching WOIO-DT downconverted to standard definition. A poster on http://www.dbstalk.com/index.php once indicated a similar problem with WDIV in Detroit. Both that poster and I are watching the digital signals over S-Video connections. The DVR delay fixed the problem for the poster in Detroit. True HDTV sets supposedly do not see the pulsation.


----------



## yespage

Is anyone else having a WKYC issue right now? I moved my antenna a little and WKYC is lost.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm getting it pretty much per normal (very strong).


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm getting it pretty much per normal (very strong).



DOH!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DOH!



There we go. What seems to be the biggest problem was having another cable running near it. Removed that and it got better. *phew*


----------



## Inundated

Re: Dover - one of the local radio stations down there has forecasts from WTOV/9 (NBC), so the Wheeling/Steubenville TV market makes at least some attempt to serve Dover/New Philadelphia...


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re: Dover - one of the local radio stations down there has forecasts from WTOV/9 (NBC), so the Wheeling/Steubenville TV market makes at least some attempt to serve Dover/New Philadelphia...



However, keep in mind that WTRF-DT is still in the "construction" phase and is on very low power with reception reported only around the Wheeling/immediate river valley area only. WTOV-DT from Steubenville has a signal of about 80% here in Canton but there's not a trace of WTRF-DT on ch. 32. When DT reception is good from the PA area, there's often a weak, unlockable signal on ch.32 but I suspect it is from another station on that channel in the Johnstown/Altoona region.


----------



## ajstan99

Has anyone tried the LG LST-4200A ATSC/NTSC/Clear QAM Tuner with WOW cable? I was wondering if the standard HDTV channels were picked up by the QAM tuner, and also how the upscaler worked with the NTSC chanels. TIA for any info.


http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetail...e=1&perPage=10


----------



## desmoface

Hey gang, I've experienced my first "Lip Sync" issue I've read about. The last couple of days its been pretty noticable on comcast's hd abc/wews. Here in Mentor it's channel 111.10. It just started doing this a few days ago. Is this something I should be concerened about? It's only happening on abc/wews hd, the regular non-hd broadcast is fine. Could this be a problem with my tv (new sony wega 50" lcd)? Thanks in advance for any replies.


Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey gang, I've experienced my first "Lip Sync" issue I've read about. The last couple of days its been pretty noticable on comcast's hd abc/wews. Here in Mentor it's channel 111.10. It just started doing this a few days ago. Is this something I should be concerened about? It's only happening on abc/wews hd, the regular non-hd broadcast is fine. Could this be a problem with my tv (new sony wega 50" lcd)? Thanks in advance for any replies.
> 
> 
> Steve



It's not your Wega.


----------



## desmoface

Good deal, thanks for the reply.


Steve


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey gang, I've experienced my first "Lip Sync" issue I've read about. The last couple of days its been pretty noticable on comcast's hd abc/wews.



Noticed the sound sync issue on WEWS HD on WOW Cable when I tried to watch Meet The Parents. It is a station issue, WEWS really sucks at DT/HD. They always have equipment problems and will probably keep having issues until they get new equipment.


----------



## hookbill

My wife researched this because we were having some problems keeping up with all the shows we recorded last year in HD. This is an external 300 gb unit and it is being discussed elsewhere in the AVS forum, but I wanted to let folks in our area with Adelphia know that is does work with the Explorer 8300. Set up was easy, just don't plug the power into the back of the unit. 300 GB more disk space. I went from 44% to 14%. The name of the unit is Maxtor 300 GB Quick View Expander.


This is ONLY for the 8300, you cannot use it with the 8000. She ordered it yesterday regular shipping and it was delivered today. Apparently they are in Pennsylvania.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Noticed the sound sync issue on WEWS HD on WOW Cable when I tried to watch Meet The Parents. It is a station issue, WEWS really sucks at DT/HD. They always have equipment problems and will probably keep having issues until they get new equipment.



I caught the lyp sync issue on WEWS OTA last night during Nightline. The sound was noticabley ahead of the video. The other channel that has this problem from time to time is WEAO-DT, on their "main" channel which is subchannel -02.


----------



## stuart628

okay guys, if someone could help me that would be apperciated, I live in mogadore (actually suffield, right off of 224/martin road) I am in a two story house, and have a amplified indoor antenna (jensen) up in the attic, what channels should I be able to pick up, the only thing so far is fox hd and of course the church channels, let me know what you guys get in my area so I know to tweek this or not!thanks, oh and I have a dish 811, the most I get on channel 3 is 49 percent same with cbs and abc!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay guys, if someone could help me that would be apperciated, I live in mogadore (actually suffield, right off of 224/martin road) I am in a two story house, and have a amplified indoor antenna (jensen) up in the attic, what channels should I be able to pick up, the only thing so far is fox hd and of course the church channels, let me know what you guys get in my area so I know to tweek this or not!thanks, oh and I have a dish 811, the most I get on channel 3 is 49 percent same with cbs and abc!



I know in NW akron, the reception is very variable to small adjustments to the rabbit ears. The position of those will determine whether I can or can't get NBC and CBS. Also, try to make sure that the line of sight from the antenna to the northish direction is as clear as possible.


As for antenna, I didn't try the Jensen. I've tried many... about 4 of them. The Terk HDTVi, the antenna the world hates, I get the best reception overall. I'm shocked you can't get Univision or UPN. I got those two channels regardless the antenna... regardless the antenna location.


----------



## stuart628

i did get uni and upn, actually get those nice, the ones I cant get and after backreading dont look like I am going to get is nbc and cbs, cbs I get 0 reading maybe 25 at the most, nbc gets 54 but no lock, and abc is nada also, I would love to get my cbs nbc fox abc and wuab in high def, I am goign to keep trying, just thought maybe there was hope, thanks yespage, and do you live in the valley? I grew up in merriman valley, right on north portage path


----------



## rocatman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i did get uni and upn, actually get those nice, the ones I cant get and after backreading dont look like I am going to get is nbc and cbs, cbs I get 0 reading maybe 25 at the most, nbc gets 54 but no lock, and abc is nada also, I would love to get my cbs nbc fox abc and wuab in high def, I am goign to keep trying, just thought maybe there was hope, thanks yespage, and do you live in the valley? I grew up in merriman valley, right on north portage path



I have the exact same setup with the jensen antenna in my garage attic and the Dish 811 although I live in Lagrange in Lorain county about 22 miles from the towers. Realize that the NBC and CBS HD station are on VHF, channels 2 and 10 respectively which utilize the long rabbit ears as opposed to the UHF center disk. Channel 2 was always my problem channel so I have the rabbit ears in basically the horizontal position since the lower the frequency the larger the wavelength. I never have a signal over about 75 - 78 on NBC. Realize also that with the Dish 811, if you don't get a signal over about 65 consistently, you will have picture breakups. This is because the signal strength meter is actually a signal to noise ratio and not just a signal strength. I also get the best UHF reception with the center disk pointed slightly away from the towers ( in my case to the east) and slightly upwards. By the way if you do get the CBS channel 10 (19), there appears to be a PSIP problem and the 811 won't map it to channel 19. I hope this helps.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay guys, if someone could help me that would be apperciated, I live in mogadore (actually suffield, right off of 224/martin road) I am in a two story house, and have a amplified indoor antenna (jensen) up in the attic, what channels should I be able to pick up, the only thing so far is fox hd and of course the church channels, let me know what you guys get in my area so I know to tweek this or not!thanks, oh and I have a dish 811, the most I get on channel 3 is 49 percent same with cbs and abc!



I'm just a couple miles away from you in Springfield Twp. I can get all Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown channels with no problem. I have an antenna on the roof with a rotor and amp.

Steve


----------



## Inundated

And I live basically down the road from Yespage (northwest Akron area) and get everybody except for WKYC full-time, second floor loft, indoor non-amplified antenna aiming at Parma roughly 20 miles away.


Here's a thought...can you turn OFF the amplification in that Jensen? If I turn my amplified indoor antenna on, it kills most of the signals.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And I live basically down the road from Yespage (northwest Akron area) and get everybody except for WKYC full-time, second floor loft, indoor non-amplified antenna aiming at Parma roughly 20 miles away.
> 
> 
> Here's a thought...can you turn OFF the amplification in that Jensen? If I turn my amplified indoor antenna on, it kills most of the signals.



no killing the amp kills the antenna, what I might do is get a silver sensor, everyone raves about those, I guess I am on a antenna search now, is a indoor antenna a bad thing for me, I am under 30 miles from the towers so I thought I was good, I see now it really does matter what antenna you have, dang dish network why cant they hurry with their mpeg4







I will get a silver sensor tomorrow, unless someone has another one they want me to try, give me some suggestions, I will make a best buy run soon!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> no killing the amp kills the antenna, what I might do is get a silver sensor, everyone raves about those, I guess I am on a antenna search now, is a indoor antenna a bad thing for me, I am under 30 miles from the towers so I thought I was good, I see now it really does matter what antenna you have, dang dish network why cant they hurry with their mpeg4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will get a silver sensor tomorrow, unless someone has another one they want me to try, give me some suggestions, I will make a best buy run soon!



I'd recommend... if you can, to buy a few antennas and spend the day getting the best signal reception. It took me a while (over a month!) to be able to get everything but the Akron stations with my antenna, but about an evening to get most of the channels.


I'm the only person who says the Terl HDTVi works. I also tried the Terk TV5 (waste of my time), Radio Shacks' 15-1880 (about the best, but to get weak NBC I'd lose Fox and ABC), Philips SAC050 (worked well like the HDTVi but was amplified... harder to put in attic). I'd recommend trying a bunch because tv reception is very individualized in a place like NE Ohio with the Valleys and the Heights. For one thing, I'm at the bottom of the valley, Inudated is higher, yet I can get a consistent NBC signal.


A couple other things I've experienced, the longer the cable the worse you are office with NBC. As I noted CBS is very touchy with the rabbit ears it seems to nearly be all or nothing with it. I did get an amplifier (radio shack one) that I have downstream by the HD receiver. Without it, NBC starts to become scattered. I've had the amplifier further upstream, but it didn't seem to matter.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the LG LST-4200A ATSC/NTSC/Clear QAM Tuner with WOW cable? I was wondering if the standard HDTV channels were picked up by the QAM tuner, and also how the upscaler worked with the NTSC chanels. TIA for any info.



I have the LG LST-3510A and Adelphia cable. It's the one with the DVD player, but no NTSC support.


The LG tuner does a great job with OTA and Clear QAM. You will need to find someone with WOW to find out which channels, if any, they broadcast in the clear.


The DVD's look fantastic via DVI scaled up to 720p. Adelphia broadcasts the locals via QAM in SD as well as HD, and these look better than the analog cable channel, but not as nice as a DVD.


----------



## stuart628

well I got the terk hdtvi. and I can now get all stations, well sorta, I amd tweaking tonight, and I am getting ready to go buy an amplifier at radio shack, I went to best buy and traded in the jensen for the hdtvi and this thing is a beauty! I cant wait to get my locals in Hd, I seriously feel like a school kid, I am all excited, I didnt know it was this easy!


----------



## yespage




----------



## stuart628

any tips you can give me yespage will be much apperciated for gettnig wkyc and woio in,I have fox in at 81% and abc in at 79% they look fantastic, now wkyc and cbs get stuck at 49% does the amp make that big of a difference for those two channels, any help anyone can give me would be apperciated as I really really want cbs in, I have abc for the buckeyes but cbs for my nfl would be GREAT! I am really really struggling here with this any tips anyone can give me is very very much apperciated!


----------



## Inundated

If I thought the HDTVi could get me WKYC on a regular basis, I'd get it...other than that, I don't need it...


Someone, stop me from hitting the store! LOL!


----------



## JoeySR

Over the past few months usually arround 7 - 8am and now lately in the

early evening I am experiencing a signal loss. All digital channels start to tile

and eventually go blank. Analog channels have lots of snow. This goes away after

about an hour. Called Adelphia and they are going to come out. My question is that I was wondering if anyone esle is experiencing this as my first thought is this is a system problem and not a problem on my end as it happens on all my TV's with or without cable boxes.


Thanks, Joey SR


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the LG LST-3510A and Adelphia cable. It's the one with the DVD player, but no NTSC support.
> 
> 
> The LG tuner does a great job with OTA and Clear QAM. You will need to find someone with WOW to find out which channels, if any, they broadcast in the clear.
> 
> 
> The DVD's look fantastic via DVI scaled up to 720p. Adelphia broadcasts the locals via QAM in SD as well as HD, and these look better than the analog cable channel, but not as nice as a DVD.



Thanks for the info, Chris. If I think that I won't use NTSC that much, I may go for the 3510 instead of the 4200. If LG would only add NTSC to the 3510, I'd get it in a heartbeat.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I thought the HDTVi could get me WKYC on a regular basis, I'd get it...other than that, I don't need it...
> 
> 
> Someone, stop me from hitting the store! LOL!



I'll stop you. Unless your going to actually PURCHASE an HDTV.










What are we going on 2 years of posting in this forum and still no HDTV?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll stop you. Unless your going to actually PURCHASE an HDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are we going on 2 years of posting in this forum and still no HDTV?



But why get the HDTV? You'd have a point if he was using composite connections on his mono audio, but with the HDTV receiver you'll get widescreen and 5.1 channel. I like such a setup, besides, the audio is the most important thing, not visual... not yet. And anyone with the HD receiver could watch the better NCAA games, as happened by coincidence this year in the NCAA Tourney.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> any tips you can give me yespage will be much apperciated for gettnig wkyc and woio in,I have fox in at 81% and abc in at 79% they look fantastic, now wkyc and cbs get stuck at 49% does the amp make that big of a difference for those two channels, any help anyone can give me would be apperciated as I really really want cbs in, I have abc for the buckeyes but cbs for my nfl would be GREAT! I am really really struggling here with this any tips anyone can give me is very very much apperciated!



As I noted before, CBS _(atleast in my home)_ is very touchy on the rabbit ears. ABC and FOX are givens. They are full blast for me most of the time.


One other thing to check out is whether there are any wires running near your antenna. This could be having an effect on the signal.


As for the amp, it's the difference between having and not having NBC... in my house with an indoor antenna. And I think the amp is more to compensate for the cable. Oh yeah, make sure you are using good cable! And just make sure of the return policy in case it ends up not working.


As for other advice, tweek tweek tweek away. Make sure you have as free a line to the horizon as possible and have as much elevation possible for the antenna. 2 vertical feet can make a huge difference in certain situations.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Hate to break in on the antennna/reception party, heh.


I was just wondering if you guys think it would help if we complained to the FCC about WBNX doing nothing at all about going digital/HD. Or would it just be wasted time?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hate to break in on the antennna/reception party, heh.
> 
> 
> I was just wondering if you guys think it would help if we complained to the FCC about WBNX doing nothing at all about going digital/HD. Or would it just be wasted time?



I thought BNX was making with the HD quickly now that some agreement was made... I could be wrong.


Besides, the FCC is too busy checking television for nipples to care about a WB station in Cleveland.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But why get the HDTV? You'd have a point if he was using composite connections on his mono audio, but with the HDTV receiver you'll get widescreen and 5.1 channel. I like such a setup, besides, the audio is the most important thing, not visual... not yet. And anyone with the HD receiver could watch the better NCAA games, as happened by coincidence this year in the NCAA Tourney.



It's kind of a running joke between me and Hookbill.










For the record, for about the 20th time, I have my SA8000HD and US Digital OTA STB feeding component video to my Toshiba 32" analog set, and it looks great with HD content. It's downconverted to 480i, of course, but the quality difference is noticeable from SD content, even SD digital stuff.


Now, Hookbill, my birthday is August 12th, so if you want to buy me a "true HD" set...


----------



## fearthemullett

I talked to the guy at WOIO-19 on the waiver issue and he explained that WOIO-19 CBS made a business decision to deny HD waivers to ANYONE who qualifies for Cleveland locals via D*, even if they are outside the OTA circle. He also referenced the SHIVRA(?) law that states waiver are lifetime, so if WOIO were to issue one, that they would lose that customer for life for HD.


I guess my beef is this - I am too far away to get an HD signal, yet cannot get one via D* - so now will not get the SEC/NCAA football in HD this fall.....there HAS to be a way around this.....


----------



## stuart628

update, I am getting fox, abc, wuab all at 85% power, NBC will lock in but stay at 56% and cbs stays at 49%, its killing me because I am so close, and I am making little little adjustments! but for everyone reading this and not sure of if they can do this or not, DO it, its is really easy, and the benefits are incredible!


----------



## stuart628

okay guys one more update, and one more question, I went and bought a new antenna

it was 60 bucks, but man oh man anyways first here it is

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...5Fid=15%2D2152 


I know get high 80's on all channels including cbs, nbc, abc, fox, wuab and 5 others, gonna flip through those tonight, anyways my question is cbs is listed as 10, it does not remap to channel 19, any know why this is or should i call someone or do something to get it to remap? Thanks yespage for all your help, total setup cost for me was 72 dollars to enjoy 72 dollar OTA for the rest of my life, I am excited! to say the least! thanks you guys for everything, and please let me know about my question, I am off to go look at my new setup!


edit: when csi came on, cbs remapped itself to 19-01, I really want to thank you guys, I really wanted OTA, that makes my HD channels complete (well espn2 would be great, but I am happy) thanks guys again, and I cant wait to be a active part of this forum.


----------



## rlockshin

as of 9:30 tonight WEWS has no HD video only audio. What is wrong with them ? They have the most problems. I am watcxhing it OTA. For all of their problems they should give us DD 5.1 Hopefully by MNFootball


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> as of 9:30 tonight WEWS has no HD video only audio. What is wrong with them ? They have the most problems. I am watcxhing it OTA. For all of their problems they should give us DD 5.1 Hopefully by MNFootball



Comin' in fine for me OTA in Medina at 11:06. It's not HD, though. Might've been an HD problem earlier that's been "corrected" with their stretch-o-vision.


I'm watching their version of the local news right now because of you. I think I might sue.


----------



## rlockshin

I think it was their HD. At 10:15 I saw 20/20 with bars on the sides . Non HD material. Before then, there was no picture on HD comedy shows


----------



## stuart628

are they a station that has a lot of problems, I noticed yesterday from about 2-5 I could only get about 55% of their signal, then it went straight to 80%, even then still had some pixilation and garbled audio


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> as of 9:30 tonight WEWS has no HD video only audio. What is wrong with them ? They have the most problems. I am watcxhing it OTA. For all of their problems they should give us DD 5.1 Hopefully by MNFootball



Noticed the same thing. Unfortunately these problems will continue. IMO they probably have to bring in new equipment.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> as of 9:30 tonight WEWS has no HD video only audio. What is wrong with them ? They have the most problems. I am watcxhing it OTA. For all of their problems they should give us DD 5.1 Hopefully by MNFootball



Isn't that going to ESPN soon?


Besides, are any of these channels required to have 5.1 or HD content? Isn't it just digital requirements?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it was their HD. At 10:15 I saw 20/20 with bars on the sides . Non HD material. Before then, there was no picture on HD comedy shows



I watch WEWS 11:00 PM news just about every evening. I tune in at 10:58 and see ABC programming in 4X3, then before the credits finish rolling, someone flips a switch and viola! they are broadcasting the ABC feed in 16 X 9 for the lone promo before they cut-away for the 11:00 PM news. Amazingly "Nightline" is always in 16 X 9.










It used to be worse - at 11:00 PM I'd see the start of the ABC program that was on at 8:00 PM (must be the west-coast feed using the same satelite feed that the east-coast feed just ended on) before someone realized that they didn't switch over the digital feed in time.


To the WEWS engineers: Yes someone IS watching WEWS-DT. You do stretch your local newscasts, why not ABC in Primetime? Are you only stretching your newscasts to compete with WJW? Don't bother - WJW has true HD cameras in their studio - yours is stretchd SD. I can tell the difference even on my analog set in 480i







Also are you aware of the occasional lyp-sync problems on your digital signal?


To the forum: Now that we know that WEWS has the ability to broadcast SD ABC programming in 16 X 9 (albeit in stretch mode) would you rather they broadcast the true 4 X 3 feed (and let the viewer's equipment handle the stretch) or give us the 16 X 9 OTA?


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Isn't that going to ESPN soon?
> 
> 
> Besides, are any of these channels required to have 5.1 or HD content? Isn't it just digital requirements?



MNF goes to ESPN next season; this will be the last year on ABC.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> To the forum: Now that we know that WEWS has the ability to broadcast SD ABC programming in 16 X 9 (albeit in stretch mode) would you rather they broadcast the true 4 X 3 feed (and let the viewer's equipment handle the stretch) or give us the 16 X 9 OTA?



I'll be interested to hear the responses here. I'm torn. First of all, I'd prefer HD 16x9, but since we're talking about upconverted SD(480i) to HD(720p), it's easier on an HD16x9 tv if it doesn't show bars on either side.


Most tvs won't stretch a 4x3 HD signal to 16x9. That's a prob, but seeing a 4x3 shape on an HD channel used to be a good way to identify an upconvert(opposed to true HD).


The stretched 4x3 might be more acceptable if it reached to both sides evenly without the bowed edges. When eveything's HD 16x9, this won't be a prob.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To the forum: Now that we know that WEWS has the ability to broadcast SD ABC programming in 16 X 9 (albeit in stretch mode) would you rather they broadcast the true 4 X 3 feed (and let the viewer's equipment handle the stretch) or give us the 16 X 9 OTA?



Most people said a few pages back that WEWS should just stick with 4:3 for SD. I talked to the station manager, they said they would look into it. Then for a good week it was 4:3, then they switched to a slight stretch, and now it is back to the "almost" 16:9 stretch.


WEWS is the worst station for providing reliable DT/HD in the Cleveland market. It's pretty pathetic when the UPN affiliate can do it no problem, although their SD quality is horrible.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To the forum: Now that we know that WEWS has the ability to broadcast SD ABC programming in 16 X 9 (albeit in stretch mode) would you rather they broadcast the true 4 X 3 feed (and let the viewer's equipment handle the stretch) or give us the 16 X 9 OTA?



Is that a trick question? Stretch-o-vision is as great as pan and scan... that isn't a compliment!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that a trick question? Stretch-o-vision is as great as pan and scan... that isn't a compliment!



Yes, my feelings too. If I want to stretch the picture I'll do it on my own. Channel 3's stretch o vision is the worst.


OTA people, can you not stretch a SD program? I can't with my tv but I can stretch it with the SA 8300.


----------



## stuart628

wews is out tonight, no signal at all, I was really wanting to watch princess diaries with my wife too, dang it! lol anyone else getting anything, I have full 80's usually with wews, and I must tell you I am getting disapointed as my buckeyes will be on this station I believe and there will be some phone calls made!


----------



## DaMavs

As of 11:30 WEWS was back on 5-1 (OTA), FWIW. News in stretched HD.


Overall I'm relatively indifferent to SD in 4x3 or stretched to 16x9. I'm very unlikely to watch a program that's not HD unless it's something I really like & if it is, I can handle either mode. Generally I guess non-stretched typically looks better as the stretching seemingly adds some distorition, although perhaps that's WEWS poor equipment.


----------



## stuart628

okay question, does wews go out like this often, in the prime time? is there someone we can call about this, or reasons they have these outages? thanks in advance


----------



## rlockshin

It does go out quite often. As for who to call, I would ask for chief engineer. When you speak to him push 5.1 DD sound, too. I cant believe that WEWS cannot offer that to us. Smaller markets have it. It is a major improvement over dolby pro logic


----------



## Phoenix2088

I was in contact with Mr. Stark the station manager over at WEWS in the past. If we can all come together and explain we want 4:3 for SD, and DD 5.1 in a nice letter I will send it off. Hopefully we have an english buff that can whip up something nice and convincing.










Hell maybe we can get WKYC to turn off their stretch garbage too, but atleast they have DD 5.1.


----------



## hookbill

You know all this time I've been wondering about baseball on WJW. It has the signs of HD but last weeks telecast was horrible.


On Tuesday when I watched the All Star Game I got that "Wow" effect. Now someone on the TiVo boards says they are broadcasting a 480i signal "upgraded" to 720p!


What a rip off. No wonder it looked so different.


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, they are not broadcasting HD for the regular Saturday games, just their upconverted stuff. We probably won't get HD baseball from Fox again until the playoffs. They obviously feel that football is much more important.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know all this time I've been wondering about baseball on WJW. It has the signs of HD but last weeks telecast was horrible.
> 
> 
> On Tuesday when I watched the All Star Game I got that "Wow" effect. Now someone on the TiVo boards says they are broadcasting a 480i signal "upgraded" to 720p!
> 
> 
> What a rip off. No wonder it looked so different.



I don't know that it's even "upgraded". I noticed that lately Fox Saturday baseball has been a lot of widescreen SD (unless of course the game has anything to do with the Yankees (barf))


My theory was they had their HD equipment tied up on the NASCAR weekends, and that was more important to them.


----------



## Inundated

FOX baseball is Widescreen SD, and will continue to be until the playoffs. The All-Star Game was in HD, and looked pretty good. FOX has obviously been working on it.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know that it's even "upgraded". I noticed that lately Fox Saturday baseball has been a lot of widescreen SD (unless of course the game has anything to do with the Yankees (barf))
> 
> 
> My theory was they had their HD equipment tied up on the NASCAR weekends, and that was more important to them.



So basically they can cover 6 football games every weekend during NFL season, but can't cover a few baseball games. They don't even have NASCAR coverage every week (TNT had the race this weekend).


I know; I'm just ranting...


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

NBC and TNT has NASCAR coverage the second half of the year. Fox and FX do not.


----------



## handsworth

Hookbill, where did you purchase your Maxtor external drive for the SA8300HD? I can't find one anywhere.

Thanks

Handsworth


----------



## hookbill

Wife bought it she said she got it from www. maxstore.com. Quick delivery, just get standard delivery they are in PA.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *handsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill, where did you purchase your Maxtor external drive for the SA8300HD? I can't find one anywhere.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Handsworth



If you you google the part number J08M300, you will be able to find some places that sell it for less than buying it from Maxtor.

Steve


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you you google the part number J08M300, you will be able to find some places that sell it for less than buying it from Maxtor.
> 
> Steve



I don't think she bought it from Maxtor. Its www.maxstore.com . Now if Maxtor owns that I don't know.


----------



## paule123

Well this Fox SD "widescreen" Cleveland-Mariners game is "interesting" Looks like the center field cam and maybe one other are true 16:9. Fox is stretching all the other cams to fit the widescreen format. PQ pretty sucky as well.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well this Fox SD "widescreen" Cleveland-Mariners game is "interesting" Looks like the center field cam and maybe one other are true 16:9. Fox is stretching all the other cams to fit the widescreen format. PQ pretty sucky as well.



I agree with all that.


And yet I congratulate channel 8 for using the equipment they have available. I salute them for making progress toward full HDTV.


----------



## johncooper

I'm very new to the HDTV scene and have a few questions that I hope someone can answer. I'm currently with Dish Network.


1. I'm in Wooster. Is it possible to get HD broadcasts OTA from Cleveland and Akron, or am I too far away? About a month ago, I tried an indoor antenna with no success (when scanning, it only picked up one channel, but couldn't hold the signal). Would an outdoor directional antenna work?


2. Are Browns and/or Indians games broadcast in HD?


Thanks,

Coop


----------



## SteveC

John,

I'm Southeast of Akron about 27 miles from the transmitters and get all the channels with no problem. I have a antenna on the roof with a rotor. I suggest you visit this website to determine your distance from the transmitters and the size of the antenna you will need: http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx 


As far as the Browns games, if the game is on Fox it will probably be in HD. If it is on CBS, it will only be in HD if it is one of the two national games. No Indians games are in HD unless it is a national game on Fox or ESPN. FSN Ohio does not do HD.


Steve


----------



## rlockshin

Anyone notice WOIO picture breaking up on Sunday night ? I was watching OTA at 8-9 and had much pixelation.

Thanks for your input


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> No Indians games are in HD unless it is a national game on Fox or ESPN. FSN Ohio does not do HD.
> 
> 
> Steve



Unless the tribe goes to the playoffs, the only place you will see them on HD is ESPN. Fox national game is not HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johncooper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm very new to the HDTV scene and have a few questions that I hope someone can answer. I'm currently with Dish Network.
> 
> 
> 1. I'm in Wooster. Is it possible to get HD broadcasts OTA from Cleveland and Akron, or am I too far away? About a month ago, I tried an indoor antenna with no success (when scanning, it only picked up one channel, but couldn't hold the signal). Would an outdoor directional antenna work?
> 
> 
> 2. Are Browns and/or Indians games broadcast in HD?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Coop



An outdoor antenna is a must from your area. The closest OTA digital transmitter to you may be WMFD-DT 12, followed by the Akron/Canton stations WEAO-DT 50, WDLI-DT 39, and WOAC-DT 47. The one station that appeared but did not lock may be one of the above.


As for the Cleveland stations, you would need to get both VHF & UHF since WKYC and WOIO are digital in the VHF band.


----------



## intermod

CHANNEL 19/DT 10 has been solid for me for a long time. I'm


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CHANNEL 19/DT 10 has been solid for me for a long time. I'm


----------



## intermod

"I had bad breakups during King Of Queens. "


Yeah, thats when I was posting. I switched to SD on 19 and they were still poor.

Other stations seem ok. Thanks, glad to know it wasent just me!


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CHANNEL 19/DT 10 has been solid for me for a long time. I'm


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CHANNEL 19/DT 10 has been solid for me for a long time. I'm


----------



## jaam




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johncooper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm very new to the HDTV scene and have a few questions that I hope someone can answer. I'm currently with Dish Network.
> 
> 
> 1. I'm in Wooster. Is it possible to get HD broadcasts OTA from Cleveland and Akron, or am I too far away? About a month ago, I tried an indoor antenna with no success (when scanning, it only picked up one channel, but couldn't hold the signal). Would an outdoor directional antenna work?
> 
> 
> 2. Are Browns and/or Indians games broadcast in HD?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Coop



I live in Eastlake,OH. About 30 miles from Transmiter in Parma. Reception of a good digital signal is not just distance. The main problem is multipath. If you can't lock on to a "clean" signal You get nothing or breakups. With analog you would get a ghost. If clouds are moving on a windy day, forget it. I live less than a thousand feet from the lake and I get Detroit ( at times ) better than Cleveland channels. It all depends on the sky and objects that reflect the signal to create multipath. I got cable even though I have a digital receiver in my hdtv. I am happier that way. And local digital stations breaks up on cable at times,too.


----------



## intermod

No audio on WVIZ-DT tonight. 26.1


----------



## rlockshin

please explain what pulsing chroma is and what it looks like. My ch 19-1 signal breaks up quite often in the evenings around 8-9 pm. Seems to happen more often in summer. Can anyone explain. I put on a bigger antenna and it did not help.


----------



## Michael P 2341





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> please explain what pulsing chroma is and what it looks like. My ch 19-1 signal breaks up quite often in the evenings around 8-9 pm. Seems to happen more often in summer. Can anyone explain. I put on a bigger antenna and it did not help.



Pulsing chroma is where some of the colors change in intensity. The more red in the picture the more I see it. So far it has only affected Dish Network 921 DVR and only on the SD outputs. In Cleveland WOIO is the only station with this problem. I tried attenuators and DC blocks but they did not solve the problem. A 921 owner in Detroit had the same problem with WDIV. The fix is to watch the digital program with a 2-3 second delay. The pulsing is not recorded on the HD of the DVR.


Rumor has it that WOIO purchased the wrong antenna when they put their "DT" station on the air.


Your problem more than likely is related to "skip" from out-of-town analog signals on ch 10. As I already stated above, ch 10 was a poor choice due to CFPL in London Ontario and WBNS in Columbus. A bigger antenna will only make the interfering station(s) come in stronger. A more directional antenna might help. You may need to aim away from the offending signal's direction by 90 degrees.


I can see WOIO's tower out my back window, so the skip is overdriven by WOIO's signal here.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Is Adelphia working for anyone tonight? I've got no digital channels at all coming in, and the analog ones have so much snow that they are unwatchable. My internet connection has been down, too, but it seems to have come back at the moment - at least briefly. I tried calling the Adelphia 888 number and it told me that I couldn't report my problem because their system was too busy. Guess I'd better get this post done quickly before it dies again.


At the moment, the internet is working and the TV signals have come back to normal. But that happened a little while ago, too, and it didn't last. We'll see what happens this time.


----------



## hookbill

I've had my tv on Fox HD (708) and although I have not been watching it because I've been busy hooking up a new computer, I have looked at it from time to time and everything looked good for me.


----------



## Inundated

No problems with analog, digital, HD or Internet down here in Northwest Akron, the forgotten stepchild of the Adelphia family.










Sounds like you've got a local problem there...


----------



## JoeySR

_Is Adelphia working for anyone tonight? I've got no digital channels at all coming in, and the analog ones have so much snow that they are unwatchable. My internet connection has been down, too, but it seems to have come back at the moment - at least briefly. I tried calling the Adelphia 888 number and it told me that I couldn't report my problem because their system was too busy. Guess I'd better get this post done quickly before it dies again.


At the moment, the internet is working and the TV signals have come back to normal. But that happened a little while ago, too, and it didn't last. We'll see what happens this time.
_


I had this same problem in Burton a few weeks ago and it took me 2 weeks and 4 service calls before I could finally convince Adelphia they had a system problem.

A week ago they finally fixed it on a pole down the street. Have your neighbors also call in the problem that was the only way I could convince them that it was their problem.


Joey


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> _
> 
> I had this same problem in Burton a few weeks ago and it took me 2 weeks and 4 service calls before I could finally convince Adelphia they had a system problem.
> 
> A week ago they finally fixed it on a pole down the street. Have your neighbors also call in the problem that was the only way I could convince them that it was their problem.
> _



It's been working mostly since my post the other night, but it's not at all reliable. I haven't watched much TV over the past couple of months (there's really nothing on worth watching this summer), but last night I tried to watch All The President's Men on HDNet Movies. The signal would be fine for five to ten minutes at a time, then it would die for about 10 to 15 seconds, then it would come back and be good again for five to ten minutes. This cycle repeated itself all the way through the film.


When I tried to call Adelphia the other night, their automated phone system told me that it was too busy to connect me to a real person.


----------



## Cleveland Plasma

I run Adelphia for my HD programming and I am rather happy compared to other options out there. I have been pondering the thought of getting an HD antenna but for the four extra channels it does not seem worth it. Is this the current list for our area. I live in Maple Hts:


Cleveland, OH - abc (5) - cbs (19) - FOX (8) - NBC (3) - pbs (49) - upn (43) - pbs (25)


Any one heard of a company having more than a few more HD channels compared to what I am getting through Adelphia?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Inundated

If you mean "local" HD channels, the only one missing from the Adelphia list is WUAB/43. Oh, and WEAO/49, but they have PBS with 25.


The only other channel that would be HD if they were up, would be WB's WBNX/55. But that digital channel isn't on the air at all, due to technical issues with Canada.


I think the WOW (Wide Open West) folks may have 43, but I don't know what areas they serve, or if there's any overlap with Adelphia. WOW doesn't do Akron.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cleveland Plasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I run Adelphia for my HD programming and I am rather happy compared to other options out there. I have been pondering the thought of getting an HD antenna but for the four extra channels it does not seem worth it. Is this the current list for our area. I live in Maple Hts:
> 
> 
> Cleveland, OH - abc (5) - cbs (19) - FOX (8) - NBC (3) - pbs (49) - upn (43) - pbs (25)
> 
> 
> Any one heard of a company having more than a few more HD channels compared to what I am getting through Adelphia?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Over the air I get the following didital channels:


WKYC-DT 2 (3.1 & 3.2) 3.2 = "Weather Plus"

WEWS-DT 15 (5.1)

WJW-DT 31 (8.1)

WDLI-DT 39 (17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4) TBN, Church Channel, JCTV, Enlace TBN

WOIO-DT 10 (19.1)

WVIZ-DT 26 (25.1, 25.2, 25.9) PBS-HD, "The Ohio Channel", CRRS (audio only)

WUAB-DT 28 (43.1, 43.2) 42.2 = "The Tube" (music videos 24x7 no commercials!)

WEAO-DT 50 (50.1, 50.2) PBS-HD, WEAO "main channel" (dup. of analog 49)

WQHS-DT 34 (61.1)


I also get 2 out-of-market channels from Youngstown:

WFMJ-DT 20 (21.1, 21.2) NBC, WB

WYTV-DT 36 (33.1) ABC


I'm located on high ground just south of the antenna farm near the point where Parma, Broadview Hts., and North Royalton meet, so YMMV.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the WOW (Wide Open West) folks may have 43, but I don't know what areas they serve, or if there's any overlap with Adelphia. WOW doesn't do Akron.



WOW does have WUAB-HD (UPN), but does not have the PBS-HD channels yet. Here is the list:


WKYC-HD (NBC) and Weather Plus

WOIO-HD (CBS)

WEWS-HD (ABC)

WUAB-HD (UPN)

WJW-HD (FOX)


They will be adding WVIZ-HD once their new signal is up at the end of the summer/fall. It appears from WOW's website that service is available in Maple Heights (44137).


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WB's WBNX/55. But that digital channel isn't on the air at all, due to technical issues with Canada.



I thought that the Canada issues had all been worked out. Somewhere back in this thread, I thought someone mentioned that WB would be coming on line for the fall 2005 season.


Has anyone heard anything more recent about this? I wrote the station an email last week, but I haven't gotten a reply yet.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought that the Canada issues had all been worked out. Somewhere back in this thread, I thought someone mentioned that WB would be coming on line for the fall 2005 season.
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard anything more recent about this? I wrote the station an email last week, but I haven't gotten a reply yet.



WBNX has shown the FCC that the interference issue has been cleared, but the FCC has not yet issued a construction permit. I got conflicting answers from WBNX, but the station manager told me they will not be broadcasting digitally, and more importantly in HD, before the 05-06 season starts. I will e-mail her again for an update.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's been working mostly since my post the other night, but it's not at all reliable. I haven't watched much TV over the past couple of months (there's really nothing on worth watching this summer), but last night I tried to watch All The President's Men on HDNet Movies. The signal would be fine for five to ten minutes at a time, then it would die for about 10 to 15 seconds, then it would come back and be good again for five to ten minutes. This cycle repeated itself all the way through the film.
> 
> 
> When I tried to call Adelphia the other night, their automated phone system told me that it was too busy to connect me to a real person.



When these type of things occure sometimes the ONLY way to get them to acknowledge the problem is to have someone come out. Or go down to an office of Adelphia and have them turn on their set and look.


For the record, I haven't noticed any problems in my area.


----------



## Inundated

For the record, WBNX's modified application for a construction permit has still not been approved by the FCC.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=72958 


They can do a lot of things without it - buy and install in-studio equipment, even buy and ready a digital transmitter - but they can't do anything that would move towards being "on air" with WBNX-DT until this is approved.


It's been sitting in the hopper since February, 2004.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For the record, WBNX's modified application for a construction permit has still not been approved by the FCC.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=72958
> 
> 
> They can do a lot of things without it - buy and install in-studio equipment, even buy and ready a digital transmitter - but they can't do anything that would move towards being "on air" with WBNX-DT until this is approved.
> 
> 
> It's been sitting in the hopper since February, 2004.



I was told a few months back that all the equipment has already been bought but they are still waiting on the construction permit. I wonder what is taking the FCC so long? Does it really take more than a year to approve this?


----------



## takosan

So is WVIZ now transmitting OTA HD?


Thanks,

Robert


----------



## kosar1985

I live in Medina about two minutes from the square. I have tried numerous indoor antennas and i could only get channels 5.1 8.1 and 43.1 and some other crappy stations. So after trying two different indoor antennas (rca 30db0 and some crappy phillips i decided to go with a terk pro for outside. So after wasting about three hrs on sunday I could get channel 3.1 and 19.1 to come in at about 30%. All my other stations were at 93-100%(channels 5.1 &8.1). Different people have told me different types of antennas, so i'm confused about which one i should get. If there is any one who lives by Route 57 in Medina please let me know what you are using.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was told a few months back that all the equipment has already been bought but they are still waiting on the construction permit. I wonder what is taking the FCC so long? Does it really take more than a year to approve this?



It's presumably still hung up with Industry Canada (the arm of the Canadian government roughly equivalent to the FCC in terms of broadcast licenses).


They must not like WBNX's proposal, and must not feel it protects their country's station enough, though I can't see why all this is taking a year and a half to accept or deny.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *takosan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So is WVIZ now transmitting OTA HD?



Presumably as they have been, low-power off their studio building on Brookpark Road. If the full-power facility in North Royalton is up, I'm not getting any signal out of it down in Akron. It'll likely be sometime in the next month or two...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So after wasting about three hrs on sunday I could get channel 3.1 and 19.1 to come in at about 30%. All my other stations were at 93-100%(channels 5.1 &8.1). Different people have told me different types of antennas, so i'm confused about which one i should get.



The difference above is that 3-1 and 19-1 are actually DT VHF 2 (3) and 10 (19), which is VHF and much more difficult to get, especially if your antenna isn't meant to get VHF.


Get a good, decent sized OUTDOOR antenna that does both VHF and UHF. I don't know which Terk you have, but they're nearly always junk. I'll leave it to the other folks here to make specific brand recommendations (since I don't have one myself), but Channel Master usually gets recommended.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has added channel 215 NFLHD "NFL Network" to the HD tier. It's 4:3 video with gray sidebars. I took a quick look through the EPG and didn't see any programming with the HD indicator, so I'm not sure exactly what this channel will have in HD -- hopefully some preseason games will be in HD (realizing that NFL Network stuff is mostly replays and not live...)


-- Paul


Edit: ahhh, here we go, the HD schedule:
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/8664135 


Browns in HD Sunday Aug 14 at 11:00pm (replay)

Now the obvious question is if this is being replayed in HD, why in the world can't WOIO show it in HD live ??


----------



## DaMavs

Because it's almost certainly the Giants broadcast being replayed in HD & not WOIO's. I doubt 19 has invested in HD trucks - would they carry any other local events other than the Browns pre-season?


It would be nice if they'd just snag the Giants HD feed, but I doubt they want to use NY announcers nor incur the costs in trying to do a voice overlay of the local guys on the HD video.


----------



## paule123

DaMavs,

It's Giants at Cleveland, so that implies somebody is going to have HD cameras in Cleveland. I don't think the Giants fans in NY are going to see the same game in HD live?


Maybe the only HD cameras there will be the "NFL Films" type guys, and the broadcast networks can't tap into that for a live game...


-- Paul


----------



## Phoenix2088

WOIO/WUAB is second rate. Their sports coverage picture quality, even for SD is terrible. There is no way that the HD will originate from them.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Medina about two minutes from the square. I have tried numerous indoor antennas and i could only get channels 5.1 8.1 and 43.1 and some other crappy stations. So after trying two different indoor antennas (rca 30db0 and some crappy phillips i decided to go with a terk pro for outside. So after wasting about three hrs on sunday I could get channel 3.1 and 19.1 to come in at about 30%. All my other stations were at 93-100%(channels 5.1 &8.1). Different people have told me different types of antennas, so i'm confused about which one i should get. If there is any one who lives by Route 57 in Medina please let me know what you are using.




I'm a little farther south than you (in the Highpoint development south of the Stop 'N Go on Route 3), but not by much. I've got a 120" Radio Shack UHF / VHF monster in the attic over my garage, and I'm able to pick up 3, 5, 8, 17, 19, 43, 50, and 61 at 80+ strength. Three and 19 are the problem children, as they broadcast on low VHF frequencies and are prone to dropouts. Nineteen is also hit and (mostly) miss for me, but I think I'm getting a lot of multipath from the location of the antenna. Something tells me that a small nudge in direction will bring that one in at 90+% consistently.


The good news is that all of the transmitters for these stations (with the exception of 17 and 50) are in the same general direction and about 18-20 miles away. Unless you want to try for some of the fringe stations (Youngstown, Toledo, Mansfield, etc.), there's no need for a rotor should you choose a directional antenna. The two Akron stations are so close (the transmitters are in Copley) that they come in at about 99% for me even though the antenna is about 45% off from ideal.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *takosan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So is WVIZ now transmitting OTA HD?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert



I finally got a lock on WVIZ-HD once I moved 2 miles SW and 100' higher than my previous home in Seven Hills. According to WVIZ's web site they have been broadcasting in HD since April '04 @ 1 Kw from a 99' tower at their Brookpark Rd. studios.


Unlike WEAO, WVIZ-DT does not broadcast the full analog channel as a subchannel. Insted the subchannels are "The Ohio Channel" and "CRRS". The Ohio channel carrys programming like PUCO board meetings and conferences. CRRS is an audio channel where volunteers read newspapers etc. for the blind. Supposedly this service is, or was formerly, available on the analog channel's SAP channel.


The main feed is PBS-HD, apparently 100% identical to WEAO's main feed (except for the "bug" in the lower right-hand corner







I say "apparently because I have not been home to monitor the channel in the morning.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's Giants at Cleveland, so that implies somebody is going to have HD cameras in Cleveland. I don't think the Giants fans in NY are going to see the same game in HD live?



I had presumed the NY market would get the game in HD, them being NYC and all, but checking out WNBC's schedule page it does not show the game in HD either.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe the only HD cameras there will be the "NFL Films" type guys, and the broadcast networks can't tap into that for a live game...



Yes it appears so, just the NFL channel will have the HD. Kinda' sad that NFL TV is going to the trouble of doing the game in HD, but no one can watch it live in HD. You'd think they'd offer up the HD feed to at least one of the markets. I guess this means they'll have their own announcers too so that 3 sets of announcers will be doing TV for the exhibition game? Odd.


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally got a lock on WVIZ-HD once I moved 2 miles SW and 100' higher than my previous home in Seven Hills. According to WVIZ's web site they have been broadcasting in HD since April '04 @ 1 Kw from a 99' tower at their Brookpark Rd. studios.
> 
> 
> Unlike WEAO, WVIZ-DT does not broadcast the full analog channel as a subchannel. Insted the subchannels are "The Ohio Channel" and "CRRS". The Ohio channel carrys programming like PUCO board meetings and conferences. CRRS is an audio channel where volunteers read newspapers etc. for the blind. Supposedly this service is, or was formerly, available on the analog channel's SAP channel.
> 
> 
> The main feed is PBS-HD, apparently 100% identical to WEAO's main feed (except for the "bug" in the lower right-hand corner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I say "apparently because I have not been home to monitor the channel in the morning.



When will WVIZ-HD go full power. Anyone have any info on this?


----------



## Phoenix2088

WVIZ-DT will be at full power by the end of summer.


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT will be at full power by the end of summer.




Thanks for the info


----------



## Inundated

That Browns/Giants game, from what I understand in another thread, will be on in NYC in HD. It won't be on here in HD, I'd bet on it.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm a little farther south than you (in the Highpoint development south of the Stop 'N Go on Route 3), but not by much. I've got a 120" Radio Shack UHF / VHF monster in the attic over my garage, and I'm able to pick up 3, 5, 8, 17, 19, 43, 50, and 61 at 80+ strength. Three and 19 are the problem children, as they broadcast on low VHF frequencies and are prone to dropouts. Nineteen is also hit and (mostly) miss for me, but I think I'm getting a lot of multipath from the location of the antenna. Something tells me that a small nudge in direction will bring that one in at 90+% consistently.
> 
> 
> The good news is that all of the transmitters for these stations (with the exception of 17 and 50) are in the same general direction and about 18-20 miles away. Unless you want to try for some of the fringe stations (Youngstown, Toledo, Mansfield, etc.), there's no need for a rotor should you choose a directional antenna. The two Akron stations are so close (the transmitters are in Copley) that they come in at about 99% for me even though the antenna is about 45% off from ideal.



Do you think i need that big of an anteena, i'll be mounting it on my roof top of my condo. I was thinking of getting a $60 or $40 antenna from radio shack. All i want is to pick up my locals in HD. I really want CBS for the Browns games. I'm tired of by antennas that dont work so thats why i trying to decide if I need a big antenna or like a medium size since i'll have it on my roof with nothing in the way


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you think i need that big of an anteena, i'll be mounting it on my roof top of my condo. I was thinking of getting a $60 or $40 antenna from radio shack. All i want is to pick up my locals in HD. I really want CBS for the Browns games. I'm tired of by antennas that dont work so thats why i trying to decide if I need a big antenna or like a medium size since i'll have it on my roof with nothing in the way



I would check out http://www.antennaweb.org for the recommendations from there based on your specific location. My guess is that you will not need something as big as I have if you're putting it outside. I'm hampered by the fact that I wanted one in my attic, and I was willing to go with a bigger antenna to overcome the attenuation of the siding.


I think, though, the biggest secret is to get one that does both UHF and VHF well, as NBC and CBS both broadcast on low VHF frequencies (channels 2 and 10, respectively). I think a lot of people get less than optimal reception simply because most of the antennas that are marketed as "HD" ones only focus on the VHF frequencies since the vast majority of the country doesn't have digital signals being broadcast down in the VHF range.


I went through 4 or 5 indoor antennas that wouldn't get squat before I finally bit the bullet and went with the big one. Personally I'm glad that I did. But, again, if you're going outside with yours, you probably don't need 120" of reception power.


----------



## rlockshin

Why dont you call Jim West of Cleveland antenna service. he will send his son Joel out and solve your pronlem. Quit screwing around on yor own. Number is 440 237 6888. They are the best in this area. They have helped many people from this forum. Good luck


----------



## gujuman

Hey everyone. I just called adelphia (2 week wait) to come out and install a HDbox for a newly purchased Sharp 37G4U LCD television (has separate AVC box). I had a couple of questions before they came out, but no-one at the adelphia has a clue about.


Is there a difference between the SA8300HD and SD8000HD boxes? I am assuming that Adelphia is using the 8000 boxes in Cleveland (downtown), right? If the 8300 is "better" is it possible to request that instead?


As far as other hookups, this is what I was plannning....does it make sense or is there a better option to "optimize" the picture? We mostly watch TV and occasionally a DVD.


Adelphia HD Box --> Aquos 37 box by *HDMI*

Media Center PC --> Aquos 37 box by *DVI-I*

DVD player --> Aquos 37 G4U by *component cables*


Thanks in advance for the replies..I really appreciate your help!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gujuman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey everyone. I just called adelphia (2 week wait) to come out and install a HDbox for a newly purchased Sharp 37G4U LCD television (has separate AVC box). I had a couple of questions before they came out, but no-one at the adelphia has a clue about.
> 
> 
> Is there a difference between the SA8300HD and SD8000HD boxes? I am assuming that Adelphia is using the 8000 boxes in Cleveland (downtown), right? If the 8300 is "better" is it possible to request that instead?
> 
> 
> As far as other hookups, this is what I was plannning....does it make sense or is there a better option to "optimize" the picture? We mostly watch TV and occasionally a DVD.
> 
> 
> Adelphia HD Box --> Aquos 37 box by *HDMI*
> 
> Media Center PC --> Aquos 37 box by *DVI-I*
> 
> DVD player --> Aquos 37 G4U by *component cables*
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the replies..I really appreciate your help!



First welcome to the forum. Second, Adelphia doesn't have a clue about anything.


Fortunately, some of us do.










I would consider the 8300 to be a superior box. The reason I say that is because it has an HDMI that is active (if you have DVI you can purchase a converter on ebay for about 20 bucks). Also the 8300 has a "pass thru" mode or actually it can select what the proper format is for the channel your on, provided your set up allows for multiple screens such as 720 p, 1080i, and 480i.


In addition the 8300 has an active sata port to allow you to hook up an additional hard drive to allow greater capacity. If your planning on recording a good deal of HD this may be important to you.


Other then that I can't think of too many differences between the 8300 and the 8000. It has been said that the 8300 is more "reliable"; however I think that is a matter of opinion. You should be able to get the 8300 upon request. If they come by with an 8000 or if you already have it then take it in to a local office and request an 8300. Make sure they have one in stock first.


Then again, they told me they had one in stock the first time I went to get one. But that's another Adelphia story.


----------



## rlockshin

WVIZ digital OTA will not be on the air until spring. I was told that by someone at the station


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WVIZ digital OTA will not be on the air until spring. I was told that by someone at the station



Hopefully that is not true. WVIZ seemed pretty sure they would get their new signal up and running by the summer, and at the latest at the end of the summer. I did e-mail WVIZ for an update about a week back, hopefully someone there will get around to responding to it.


----------



## paule123

FWIW, we got screwed out of an HD Indians/Yankees game last night thanks to those wonderful blackout rules. It was on ESPNHD but we Clevelanders had to settle for FSN's mediocre PQ.


I actually got it on ESPNHD on my SA8000HD for a couple minutes, until the box got the message from the headend and blanked the screen. Grrrrr....


----------



## rlockshin

They are having trouble with the transmitting tower rights. Do not look for it soon. My source is high up at the station. Get a rotor and pick up same HD PBS programming from Ch 50-1 in Akron. Tower is in NW Akron. Use Cleveland antenna and they will fix you right up


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are having trouble with the transmitting tower rights. Do not look for it soon. My source is high up at the station. Get a rotor and pick up same HD PBS programming from Ch 50-1 in Akron. Tower is in NW Akron. Use Cleveland antenna and they will fix you right up



Umm, how new is your "inside" information?


WVIZ's engineer posted IN THIS VERY THREAD that those rights issues were resolved (re: Infinity Radio), and that they were moving ahead on designing and building the full-power facility in North Royalton, with ETA sometime this summer.


Let me go find the message...


----------



## Inundated

OK, my confusion, the information above wasn't posted by WVIZ's engineer (who came on here for 3 messages unrelated to this issue), but by me, quoting an E-Mail he'd sent me late last year.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post4786653 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let the good folks at WVIZ off the hook on this one...their full-power DT installation has been delayed entirely due to a legal dispute with Infinity Broadcasting, which owns the North Royalton site where their analog transmitter and antenna resides. (It's also the home of Infinity's WNCX/98.5 and Radio One's WERE/1300, Infinity owns the site.)
> 
> 
> WVIZ's engineering folks tell me that the dispute has been resolved, and they're designing a DT setup to the specifications agreed to in that settlement of the dispute. Add in the time needed to order and install equipment to those specs, and WVIZ-DT 26 should be at full power sometime in the summer.



Do you have newer information than this?


----------



## rlockshin

My information came from their engineering dept on Thursday 8/4


----------



## intermod

Well I just hope they can get another antenna rather than pull the one off the side

of the studio.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My information came from their engineering dept on Thursday 8/4



Well, I don't understand it, since as far as we knew a few months ago, "rights issues" were all negotiated and solved. Something else must have popped up, either with Infinity or otherwise.


Oh, well. It's not like I need it, anyway.


----------



## takosan

So looks like the reason I wasn't getting WVIZ-DT was not because of my receiver. I was worried about my STB because no matter how much I play with the rooftop antenna I can only get, according to the STB, about 50% reading on channels I can receive.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's presumably still hung up with Industry Canada (the arm of the Canadian government roughly equivalent to the FCC in terms of broadcast licenses).
> 
> 
> They must not like WBNX's proposal, and must not feel it protects their country's station enough, though I can't see why all this is taking a year and a half to accept or deny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably as they have been, low-power off their studio building on Brookpark Road. If the full-power facility in North Royalton is up, I'm not getting any signal out of it down in Akron. It'll likely be sometime in the next month or two...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The difference above is that 3-1 and 19-1 are actually DT VHF 2 (3) and 10 (19), which is VHF and much more difficult to get, especially if your antenna isn't meant to get VHF.
> 
> 
> Get a good, decent sized OUTDOOR antenna that does both VHF and UHF. I don't know which Terk you have, but they're nearly always junk. I'll leave it to the other folks here to make specific brand recommendations (since I don't have one myself), but Channel Master usually gets recommended.




I finally used the rabbit ears on my antenna that came with the phillips hd antenna(indoor) and i can now get cbs to come in at 69%. If i get a small to medium outside antenna do you think I could pull in nbc with it and get a better signal with cbs. Right now i cant get nbc. Also does anyone know if they broadcast the Browns games in HD. I hope so because this is why i'm fooling around with this antenna in the first place!


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally used the rabbit ears on my antenna that came with the phillips hd antenna(indoor) and i can now get cbs to come in at 69%. If i get a small to medium outside antenna do you think I could pull in nbc with it and get a better signal with cbs. Right now i cant get nbc. Also does anyone know if they broadcast the Browns games in HD. I hope so because this is why i'm fooling around with this antenna in the first place!



The only chance of seeing the Browns in HD would be a national game. WOIO does not broadcast regular games in HD.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only chance of seeing the Browns in HD would be a national game. WOIO does not broadcast regular games in HD.



is that just locally or around the U.S. because i have the nfl package and the always say watch the games in HD


----------



## ZManCartFan

Yes, even though the NFL is increasing its HD presence this year, it doesn't say you can watch EVERY game in HD. I think Phoenix is right; unless the game is a national "game of the week," your chances of seeing it in HD are slim to none.


----------



## Inundated

And the preseason games are produced by the local market's affiliate, of not necessarily the same network as the network that carries the regular season games. It's been like that in Cleveland, where WKYC/3 (NBC) locally produced preseason games, but CBS had the regular season.


This year, CBS affiliate WOIO/19 is producing and airing the preseason games. But, again, it's separate from the network feeds in the regular season - WOIO does not produce those, it just carries them from CBS.


And Cleveland's no-local-HD-sports tradition continues. Oddly enough, the Browns/Giants preseason game this year IS being produced in HD, but only by the New York City station running the Giants this preseason. As far as I know, that feed won't be aired on WOIO-DT, since they're producing their own SD show.


NFL Network HD is carrying the game in HD (presumably with NYC announcers), but on delay. I don't know if they'll air that locally on NFL Network HD (Adelphia carries it).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally used the rabbit ears on my antenna that came with the phillips hd antenna(indoor) and i can now get cbs to come in at 69%. If i get a small to medium outside antenna do you think I could pull in nbc with it and get a better signal with cbs. Right now i cant get nbc.



Yes, you'd likely have a better shot with an outdoor antenna in any case.


BTW, both WOIO/19 (CBS) and WKYC/3 (NBC) are VHF stations. WOIO is on DT 10 and WKYC is on DT 3. The rabbit ears are likely not getting WKYC because it's a very tough catch on an indoor antenna, in most of the area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And the preseason games are produced by the local market's affiliate, of not necessarily the same network as the network that carries the regular season games. It's been like that in Cleveland, where WKYC/3 (NBC) locally produced preseason games, but CBS had the regular season.
> 
> 
> This year, CBS affiliate WOIO/19 is producing and airing the preseason games. But, again, it's separate from the network feeds in the regular season - WOIO does not produce those, it just carries them from CBS.
> 
> 
> And Cleveland's no-local-HD-sports tradition continues. Oddly enough, the Browns/Giants preseason game this year IS being produced in HD, but only by the New York City station running the Giants this preseason. As far as I know, that feed won't be aired on WOIO-DT, since they're producing their own SD show.
> 
> 
> NFL Network HD is carrying the game in HD (presumably with NYC announcers), but on delay. I don't know if they'll air that locally on NFL Network HD (Adelphia carries it).



Last year since I didn't have CBS in hd I didn't watch that many Browns games. Are you saying the majority of Browns games were NOT broadcast in hd?


----------



## Michael P 2341

WKYC-DT is on the lowest VHF channel ch 2. The lower the channel number the larger the antenna elements have to get a good signal.


For chanel 2 you need an 8' "wingspan". Even if the rabbit ears does fine for WOIO, they are on ch 10 which is a much shorter wavelength than 2. Some UHF-only antennas will get ch 10 but you don't stand a chance of geting ch 2 with that kind of antenna.


I've seen some Silver Sensors with rabbit ears added. You migh want to try oneof these. Radio Shack may have them (although they may not be called "Silver Sensor" at RatShack).


Here is what it looks like: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/silver.html If you see one with the rabbit ears added on the back that's the one to try.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last year since I didn't have CBS in hd I didn't watch that many Browns games. Are you saying the majority of Browns games were NOT broadcast in hd?



Oh, no...I mean none of the preseason ones were, or will be.


In the regular season itself, WOIO carries whatever HD games CBS sends, that are appropriate for its market. So, if the Browns game is in HD, they'll have it. If another non-Browns game is in HD, and is available to it, they'll have it. They will run whatever game(s) they run on the analog channel...there's no splitting of games separately on the DT side. But if that game on the analog channel happens to be in HD, it'll be in HD on WOIO-DT.


This is all about regular season. The preseason runs under local broadcast rights rules.


The problem last year, of course, was that as the Browns started stinking up the place, CBS had less incentive to add the Browns games in HD. I don't know when they make the decision to send the HD truck, but I don't seem to recall many HD Browns games after about mid-season... If the Browns are playing a major market team (NYC, etc.), or a very good team in a major market (New England, etc.), that increases the chances of an HD game, especially if it's being broadcast back to that market.


The other problem here is that CBS only does (even this year) 3 HD games a week. If FOX covers the game, it'd likely be in HD, as they do nearly all of theirs in HD. So, when the Redskins came to town last year, it was on FOX 8 in HD.


Usual TV rules apply...the road team's conference determines who does the game. All Browns regular season road games are on CBS (WOIO). Home games can be on CBS, if the Browns play an AFC team, or on FOX, if they play an NFC team.


----------



## kosar1985

is there a number we can call to complain about the games not being in HD. Also I think it's stupid we even have to mess with an antenna to get the local channels in HD with satellite


----------



## jtscherne

The basic excuse from the satellite companies is that they don't have the bandwidth to push local HD channels. Both Dish and DirecTV are adding more capacity and have promised HD locals reasonably soon.


As to HD pre-season games, the only local station to spend any real HD money has been WJW, although the only local HD programming they have is the news. WKYC did a few local commercials a while back that they showed during the Olympics last year. Otherwise, I suspect you can complain to WOIO, but I doubt they'll listen very much.


----------



## WJW Engineer

Attention Cleveland DTV watchers using OTA STB's - At about 1pm on Wednesday, 8/10 WJW will be making some changes to it's DTV stream - which, depending on your STB, may or may not require you to re-scan in order to receive WJW 8-1. We'll be contacting the cable head ends (that we know about) ahead of time, so there should be minimum loss of service to most cable customers. Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attention Cleveland DTV watchers using OTA STB's - At about 1pm on Wednesday, 8/10 WJW will be making some changes to it's DTV stream - which, depending on your STB, may or may not require you to re-scan in order to receive WJW 8-1. We'll be contacting the cable head ends (that we know about) ahead of time, so there should be minimum loss of service to most cable customers. Thanks!



Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully Adelphia is one of your cable companies you will notify.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WJW will be making some changes to it's DTV stream....



Very nice of you to drop in and let everyone know. Thanks!


----------



## Rijax

Well THAT was a thoughtful thing to do. BRAVO!


----------



## Inundated

Very good, and thanks to WJW's engineering staff for letting us know! It's a simple thing - getting on here and posting a message - but it'll probably help assuage some calls later.










I'm guessing that WJW is finally fixing its PSIP to include program listings?


And I sure HOPE they notify Adelphia, considering it's one of the big providers locally... of course, knowing Adelphia, they'll probably have a phone operator write it down and use the message to eat lunch on!


----------



## rlockshin

Is WEWS at it again ? I turned on Boston Legal and nothing on 5.1. Seems like every week they have an outage. Signal strength is 77 on my Samsung DTV 160. I assume it is them because all other channels are fine


----------



## ajstan99

WEWS - I'm getting 84/100 signal but no picture or sound.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WEWS at it again ? I turned on Boston Legal and nothing on 5.1. Seems like every week they have an outage. Signal strength is 77 on my Samsung DTV 160. I assume it is them because all other channels are fine



No Signal OTA here - they were OK earlier today


Correction: 100% signal, but black screen. ID's as "WEWS-DT" so PSIP must be there.


----------



## DaMavs

Same here - came down & turned on the TV to a solid black picture on ABC - signal is there, but no sound or pic. Checked from 10 on w/the recording & there was a closing credit from the 9PM show to start the recording (like a second's worth) and then blank for the next 30 minutes. How can they be that consistently awful?


OTA reception BTW.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WEWS at it again ? I turned on Boston Legal and nothing on 5.1. Seems like every week they have an outage. Signal strength is 77 on my Samsung DTV 160. I assume it is them because all other channels are fine



I had 116 - 120 signal strength (off the OTA tuner of my E* 921) on WEWS-DT but no picture or sound at 8:00 PM last night. Someone must have been asleep at the wheel and failed to switch over the DT feed, which is becoming clear to me that is a seperate act on the part of the station's master control.


Here is another example of master control being asleep at the wheel: The night before I was picking up WYTV-DT the ABC affilliate out of Youngstown. When the Hall of Fame game was over the screen went black for several seconds then I saw a picture of the Space Shuttle launch, the audio was an engineer testing DD 5.1 ("Left front, center, right front, right rear...) the ABC logo/bug was in the lower right corner. This had to be the HD feed from ABC during the time the late local news was supposed to be on, never meant to be seen OTA. (btw: I did check the analog WYTV 33 and they did have the late local news on). I was able to save this tidbit on the 921's hard drive, if for nothing else than a DD 5.1 test.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> is there a number we can call to complain about the games not being in HD.



Complain to the programming department:
[email protected] 


and/or the station manager:
[email protected] 


Contact numbers and email addresses listed here:
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...4&nav=WgbT10jP 


There's not much the local station people can do, but hopefully they are putting increasing pressure on the network to fix this situation for next season. It's too bad CBS went from first to worst in NFL HD coverage.


CBS announces which games will be in HD on their website. Last year they announced which 3 games of the week would be HD in 3 week blocks, about 3 weeks(?) ahead of time.


(side note: it seems my forum notifications have gone flaky again...)


----------



## jtscherne

I've given up on regular notifications. It is extremely spotty.


----------



## Inundated

The HOF game Monday night had some problems, though I don't know if it was network or local. I'm guessing network, because in some of the breakups, they switched to an upconverted SD signal fairly quickly, and the HD ABC bug was still up in the lower right corner (along with the SD ABC bug in the lower right of the SD frame!).


I'm pretty sure that unlike FOX and its splicer, the ABC HD bug is added at the network level.


----------



## rlockshin

Has anyone checked WJW DT to see if today's change at 1 pm made them lose the channel and make a rescan necessary. I will check mine tonight


----------



## rlockshin

8-1 works but I noticed a couple seconds delay. It was not there before. Nothing that bad and not a reason for action. Anyone else see the slight delay ?


----------



## hookbill

I get WJW-HD from Adelphia and I watched the news this evening and everything was fine. I never knew it went down (if it did).


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last year since I didn't have CBS in hd I didn't watch that many Browns games. Are you saying the majority of Browns games were NOT broadcast in hd?



Now that the local WOW Cable is carrying NFL Network HD (Channel 215) I'm gonna ssume the NY-produced Giants/Browns HD tape delay at 11pm Saturday WILL be shown here on Wow Cable HD. Will report back.


(Edit: Sorry...Paule123 covered this scheduled tape delay last week, but since so many have asked about Browns and HD I thought I'd keep this here and report back if it was truly on and in HD).


Ted


----------



## EricG

Hi all


I'm new to the HD stuff here. I finally went out and got the DirecTV DVR. The sat HD feeds look really nice. i can get most of the locals but WJW. I get about 70-80 on all the other locals but only about a 20 signal strength with FOX. I'm in Twinsburg. Any ideas?


Also I'm having some guide problems on WNEO ch 50. No guide data comes in. I get great signal on ch 50 but no guide data. I am getting guide data on Ch 45/49 but no signal. I really need the guide to make my HD TiVo work well.


Thanks


----------



## Inundated

WJW-DT's PSIP installation appears to have worked here. It's now identifying as 8-1 WJW (without -DT) and the program information stream is working, though they aren't seeding it with actual scheduling information right now...just "WJW 3 - 7:59 PM-10:59 PM".


Wish I could help with the HD TiVo and WEAO/50-1. I'm not familiar enough with how the HD TiVo's guide data works and gets refreshed vs. OTA HD. I can confirm that 50-1 is loud and clear, and working, OTA here in Akron. But as far as WJW goes...you might want to rescan it today due to the above work.


----------



## rlockshin

you can get Fox hd on ch 88 out of NY on DTV. WJW is an o/o station and you qualify for that network. I get WNEO on 49-1 at it does have the guide on that channel. 50-1 does not show guide


----------



## EricG

Where does the local guide data come from? Who do I call to complain?


----------



## rlockshin

it comes from the stations. WNEO is aware that there is no guide on 50-1. They are not sure how it got on 49-1,but it is there and it is accurate


----------



## EricG

That stinks. I NEED guide data to schedule recordings on my HD TiVo.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you can get Fox hd on ch 88 out of NY on DTV. WJW is an o/o station and you qualify for that network.



...on that same DNS issue u might call DirecTv and ask to receive all the NY nets in HD(80, 82, 86, 88) to see what they say. They might require the HD sub(10.99) plus a package which includes SD-LiL (Cleveland locals).


Even if u don't qualify for all 4 NY HD(80...), if u add SD-LiL now(3,5,8,...), you'll be all set to receive HD-LIL when it's available('06?) by Directv if u want it(some receive HD-OTA with no prob now and won't need it by sat.)


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you can get Fox hd on ch 88 out of NY on DTV. WJW is an o/o station and you qualify for that network. I get WNEO on 49-1 at it does have the guide on that channel. 50-1 does not show guide



how do you get the NY feed through DTV


----------



## rlockshin

It automatically comes with the HD package. You cannot receive the other NY locals. No one here qualifies. It is based upon the local network's affiliation. Ch 8 is owned and operated by Fox that is why we can receive it. NBC,CBS and ABC are not O&O therefore you CANNOT receive them in this area


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It automatically comes with the HD package. You cannot receive the other NY locals. No one here qualifies. It is based upon the local network's affiliation. Ch 8 is owned and operated by Fox that is why we can receive it. NBC,CBS and ABC are not O&O therefore you CANNOT receive them in this area



Rlockshin,


Your comment is not entirely true. I had ABC HD E & W from D*. I requested waivers for all channels when I first sub'd to D*. All of my waiver requests were turned down except for ABC, which was approved. I understand things have changed over the last 6 months in regards to waivers, but I wanted to share my experience with D*'s NY HD channels.


JP


----------



## EricG

I called DirecTV, they said they would need to submit a waiver for me and it may take up to 45 days to turn on FOX "if" I qualify.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I called DirecTV, they said they would need to submit a waiver for me and it may take up to 45 days to turn on FOX "if" I qualify.



That's flat out wrong. WJW is an Owned & Operated station. You should have the NY East feed without a waiver. Call back and ask for the HD group or customer retention. Be nice and explain your situation.


----------



## DaMavs

Just to clarify, make sure to point out that your local Fox station is "Fox Owned & Operated" and thus you qualify for the Fox NYC feed. That you can't pull it locally doesn't matter, the Fox O&O is the key.


----------



## rlockshin

Agreed When it came on, it automatically popped in for me. Do you have the HD package?

If you dont that could be why you dont have it. Otherwise, it is yours with no questions asked!!!


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's flat out wrong. WJW is an Owned & Operated station. You should have the NY East feed without a waiver. Call back and ask for the HD group or customer retention. Be nice and explain your situation.



does this work! and do people actually get the waivers from the channels?


----------



## rlockshin

You do not need a waiver to receive Fox NY on DTV. It is there for you with the Hd package


----------



## Inundated

To clarify...on MY OTA receiver, WEAO shows up as 50-1/50-2 only. It sounds like there's some internal mapping in DirecTV's guide that has it showing up as 49-1 for you, unless that's the analog side. When you go to 49-1, is it the PBS HD schedule or the regular WNEO/WEAO schedule?


About FOX HD NY, there should be NO waiver at all, with WJW being an owned and operated station. Go here, and read the thing at the bottom to the DirecTV phone rep:

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/fox_hd.html 


I've quoted it below:



> Quote:
> The FOX HDTV programming currently available for eligible customers is from either WNYW (New York) or KTTV (Los Angeles), depending upon your geographic location. The select markets where eligible customers may receive the feeds are: New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, Chicago, IL, Philadelphia, PA, Boston, MA, Dallas, TX, Washington D.C., Minneapolis, MN, Detroit, MI, Atlanta, GA, Houston, TX, Tampa Bay, FL, Orlando, FL, Cleveland, OH, Phoenix, AZ, Denver, CO, St. Louis, MO, Milwaukee, WI, Kansas City, MO, Salt Lake City, UT, Birmingham, AL, Memphis, TN, Greensboro, NC, and Austin, TX.



Now, it does mention about other FOX stations in nearby areas maybe requiring a waiver, but as far as I know, no FOX affiliate anywhere near Cleveland puts enough of a signal into this market to cause any such problems. WPGH/Pittsburgh, WFXP/Erie, WJBK/Detroit, WUPW/Toledo and WTTE/Columbus would be the only nearby full-power FOX stations, and all three are some 100 miles away. (And WJBK is an O&O, too.) The FOX affiliate in Youngstown is actually a pair of low-power stations, neither of which can be received anywhere NEAR here.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To clarify...on MY OTA receiver, WEAO shows up as 50-1/50-2 only. It sounds like there's some internal mapping in DirecTV's guide that has it showing up as 49-1 for you, unless that's the analog side. When you go to 49-1, is it the PBS HD schedule or the regular WNEO/WEAO schedule?
> 
> 
> About FOX HD NY, there should be NO waiver at all, with WJW being an owned and operated station. Go here, and read the thing at the bottom to the DirecTV phone rep:
> 
> http://www.directv.com/see/landing/fox_hd.html
> 
> 
> I've quoted it below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, it does mention about other FOX stations in nearby areas maybe requiring a waiver, but as far as I know, no FOX affiliate anywhere near Cleveland puts enough of a signal into this market to cause any such problems. WPGH/Pittsburgh, WFXP/Erie, WJBK/Detroit, WUPW/Toledo and WTTE/Columbus would be the only nearby full-power FOX stations, and all three are some 100 miles away. (And WJBK is an O&O, too.) The FOX affiliate in Youngstown is actually a pair of low-power stations, neither of which can be received anywhere NEAR here.



It shows up in HD on 49-1 nad 50-1.SD feed is on both 49-2 and 50-2. DTV guide shows programs under49-1 and 2. I live near he tower maybe that is why I get it on both channels. I have discussed this with the station and they have no idea why I get 49-1 wih program listings


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It shows up in HD on 49-1 nad 50-1.SD feed is on both 49-2 and 50-2. DTV guide shows programs under49-1 and 2. I live near he tower maybe that is why I get it on both channels. I have discussed this with the station and they have no idea why I get 49-1 wih program listings



has anyone actually been given the rights to watch local channels from the waivers


----------



## EricG

Do you only get guide data on Ch49 like I do? I spoke with engineering over at the station yesterday. There not sure why I'm seeing this, but they're going to look into it and make some tweaks, So I gather things aren't exactly right.

BTW, where does the Guide Data come from? The local channels or DirecTV? If from the locals, why do I get Guide Data on CH46 Digital when I cannot get a picture and sound, but I get no Guide Data on CH 50 where I get a great signal?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It shows up in HD on 49-1 nad 50-1.SD feed is on both 49-2 and 50-2. DTV guide shows programs under49-1 and 2. I live near he tower maybe that is why I get it on both channels. I have discussed this with the station and they have no idea why I get 49-1 wih program listings


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you only get guide data on Ch49 like I do? I spoke with engineering over at the station yesterday. There not sure why I'm seeing this, but they're going to look into it and make some tweaks, So I gather things aren't exactly right.



It sounds like something DirecTV has to fix in their guide. Part of it may be due to the fact that WEAO is the only local station that doesn't remap to its OTA analog number (49) on the DT channel.


----------



## rlockshin

I do not know how it works but I watch on 49-1 in HD and it is the same as 50-1. 49-1 gives me guide data;50-1 does not. I guess I am lucky that I get guide data at all


----------



## EricG

I'm not sure that's true. According to TitanTV.com, WNEO is on 46 while WEAO is on 50. But AntennaWeb only lists WEAO ch 50. Who knows??


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It sounds like something DirecTV has to fix in their guide. Part of it may be due to the fact that WEAO is the only local station that doesn't remap to its OTA analog number (49) on the DT channel.


----------



## Rob Ables

Anyone know if the Browns game is in HD tonight on WOIO?


----------



## hookbill

From what I read in previous discussions, it isn't.


----------



## jtscherne

And maybe it was just as well. Do we really need to see Bob Golic in HD? That was one of the most *PAINFUL* broadcasts of a sporting event I've ever heard. Not that I watched much of the delay, but listening to them try to fill that hour made me want to find a blackboard for my fingernails. I have no idea who at the Browns or WOIO who thought that Golic could do play by play!


Anyway, let's state it again: NONE of the Browns pre-season games this year will be in HD. They are all locally produced and WOIO is not doing any local HD production.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do we really need to see Bob Golic in HD? That was one of the most *PAINFUL* broadcasts of a sporting event I've ever heard.



And THAT's the truth. I like Bob. He's a very nice guy. But, that was the WORST I've ever heard anyone do. Brian Brennan and Reggie Rucker did much better, but in fairness, Golic had the heavier responsibility. I gotta go see what the PD has to say about it. This could be brutal.


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And THAT's the truth. I like Bob. He's a very nice guy. But, that was the WORST I've ever heard anyone do. Brian Brennan and Reggie Rucker did much better, but in fairness, Golic had the heavier responsibility. I gotta go see what the PD has to say about it. This could be brutal.



Very painful to sit through. When I heard them struggling for comments BEFORE the lightning delay, and then to think that they'd have to fill time....oh my God! If I heard Brian Brennan say "The Browns are going to be exciting, with lots of new players" one more time! The banter was such that it seemed they had little if any time to rehearse. It was pathetic. Reggie Rucker was ok, but that's not saying much.


I'll spend a few minutes reviewing the HD broadcast tape delay tonight on NFL Network HD. Can't imagine the NY local coverage could be anywhere near the level of banality as was the WOIO crew.


Ted


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that's true. According to TitanTV.com, WNEO is on 46 while WEAO is on 50. But AntennaWeb only lists WEAO ch 50. Who knows??



We're both right. WNEO/WEAO broadcasts on the following channels:


WNEO/45 (analog)

WNEO-DT/46-1, 2 (digital)

WEAO/49 (analog)

WEAO-DT/50-1, 2 (digital)


Both WEAO signals are simulcasts of the WNEO signals, analog and digital respectively. The DT signals are PBS HD (46-1 and 50-1) and a simulcast of the analog signal (46-2 and 50-2).


46 is mainly receivable in the Youngstown market...it doesn't really make it to even Akron, which of course is not necessary due to the presence of 50.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And THAT's the truth. I like Bob. He's a very nice guy. But, that was the WORST I've ever heard anyone do. Brian Brennan and Reggie Rucker did much better, but in fairness, Golic had the heavier responsibility. I gotta go see what the PD has to say about it. This could be brutal.



I like Bob, too. He's a friendly guy and well-liked in the community. But that was awful. Part of the problem is that I don't think he's ever DONE play by play before, but has done commentary. Much of the time, it sounded like he was waiting for the PBP guy to talk...and he realized he was only waiting for himself.


Oh, and the game was not in HD on WOIO-DT, as expected. And the rest of the pre-season games probably will not be in HD as well. First Browns HD game locally will be week one vs. Cincinnati, unless CBS deems that not worthy...


----------



## ted_b

NY's HD broadcast of the Browns/Giants (tape delayed and shown Sun night @ 11pm on NFL Network) was quite nice, with several HD cameras. The pq was very good, and the local NY crew was pretty good, albeit Giant biased, of course.


Ted


----------



## SteveC

If any of you guys are at home now, could you check to see if WOIO is showing the conclusion of the PGA Championship golf tournament in HD? I set my DVR to record it starting at 10 AM. I just wanted to make sure they knew to flip the switch so I won't be watching the SD feed tonight after I get home from work. If it is SD, let me know and I'll call them.

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## TV21CHIEF

For those of you that watch us:


Our studio took a pretty good power hit this morning that blew up our upconverter. I'm supposed to have a loaner here tomorrow, but until then we will be SD 480i only both OTA and cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If any of you guys are at home now, could you check to see if WOIO is showing the conclusion of the PGA Championship golf tournament in HD? I set my DVR to record it starting at 10 AM. I just wanted to make sure they knew to flip the switch so I won't be watching the SD feed tonight after I get home from work. If it is SD, let me know and I'll call them.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve



Right now "The Price is Right" is on WOIO, Steve.


It wasn't scheduled at 10:00 am either.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now "The Price is Right" is on WOIO, Steve.
> 
> 
> It wasn't scheduled at 10:00 am either.



The PGA Championship was over by 11am.


----------



## ted_b

The morning HD broadcast (at least on WOW cable) took a couple of minutes to come on, and then had some difficulty until about 10:05am. After that it was fine (although only a few HD cameras remained, or so it seemed).


Ted


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The morning HD broadcast (at least on WOW cable) took a couple of minutes to come on, and then had some difficulty until about 10:05am. After that it was fine (although only a few HD cameras remained, or so it seemed).
> 
> 
> Ted



Great. Sounds like WOIO was on their toes and I will be watching it in HD this evening. Thanks for the reply.

Steve


----------



## Cleveland Plasma

Well the Browns game again was in SD. When will we ever see a home game in HD. I have never seen a home game in HD.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cleveland Plasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well the Browns game again was in SD. When will we ever see a home game in HD. I have never seen a home game in HD.



NONE of the pre-season games will be on local HD and the NFL Network HD schedule shows no more out-of-town HD broadcasts that feature the Browns.


Looking at the regular season schedule, three games have the best chance of being in HD:


Sunday, November 13 at Pittsburgh is the ESPN Sunday Night Game - DEFINITELY IN HD, although an away game


Sunday, October 9 versus the Chicago Bears - At home on FOX, most likely an HD game


Sunday, October 23 versus the Detroit Lions - At home on FOX, most likely an HD game


Fox showed nearly all games last year in HD, although there were a couple of weeks where one game on a weekend might not have been in HD


Other than that, we won't know whether any regular season CBS games will be in HD until we get closer to the season.


----------



## hookbill

I'm not much on business but since Time Warner is suppose to be purchasing this area's Adelphia Cable maybe someone who has business savy can elaborate.


The link is here. 

*

Business

Icahn advocates Time Warner cable spin-off


August 16, 2005


BY SETH SUTEL


NEW YORK -- Financier Carl Icahn disclosed Monday that he and a group of investors will press Time Warner to shed its cable TV unit and embark on an aggressive buyback of $20 billion of its own shares.


Icahn, who is known for taking stakes in companies and agitating for strategic changes, said he and three other investors have amassed more than 120 million shares of Time Warner, or about 2.6 percent of the giant media conglomerate, which owns CNN, HBO, Warner Bros. and the country's second-largest cable TV provider.


Earlier this month, Time Warner said it planned to repurchase $3 billion of its own shares over the next two years in a bid to raise the company's sagging stock price, but Icahn and his partners believe Time Warner can afford much more dramatic steps to boost the shares.


Icahn said Monday that while he felt Time Warner has done a "commendable job" managing each of its businesses and announced steps to increase shareholder value, "it has not moved quickly enough and it has not proposed measures which would enhance values to the degree necessary to realize the inherent value" of its assets.


Separation of the cable unit as well as an immediate repurchase of $20 billion in Time Warner shares would push up the price to a level that reflected fair value, Icahn said. His investor group includes Franklin Mutual Advisors, JANA Partners and S.A.C. Capital Investors. The group's 120 million shares are worth about $2.2 billion.


Icahn said he had contacted Time Warner CEO Dick Parsons and planned to meet with him this week to discuss his views. He said he and his partners also planned to discuss their plans with other large shareholders in the company.


Mia Carbonell, a Time Warner spokeswoman, said: "Our board and our management are committed to creating long-term value for all shareholders, and we have been on a course that demonstrates that commitment."


Time Warner has already said it intends to spin off part of its cable company to shareholders as part of a three-way deal with Comcast Corp., the leading cable company, to acquire the assets of the bankrupt cable provider Adelphia Communications.


Time Warner's units would be worth a total of at least $27 a share if they were split up, according to valuations by analysts including Michael Kupinski at AG Edwards & Sons.


Time Warner's shares rose 26 cents, or 1.42 percent, to $18.50, Monday. The shares rose about 4 percent earlier this month after reports emerged of Icahn's interest, but the stock is still down about 5 percent overall this year, and has been stuck below $20 since April 2002.


Reception to Icahn's push has been mixed.


"They're heading in the direction that Icahn is advocating," said Henry Ellenbogen, a fund manager at T. Rowe Price Group Inc. Rowe held 62 million shares of New York-based Time Warner, or 1.3 percent of the stock, as of March. "The difference is the pace."


Ellenbogen is among at least four Time Warner investors who said they are happy with Parsons' leadership since he took the helm in May 2002.


Parsons has settled lawsuits related to the 2001 merger with America Online, approved the company's first stock buyback in four years and paid its first dividend since 2001.


With Time Warner, Icahn "faces a way different beast," said Tuna Amobi, a media analyst at Standard & Poor's in New York, who rates the shares "buy" and doesn't own them. At Time Warner, "most investors are solidly behind the management team," Amobi said.


Many investors have soured on the stocks of major media conglomerates recently as hopes of synergies between the far-flung media properties fade and on concerns about technological challenges like digital piracy and ad-skipping technology.


Viacom, another major media company that owns CBS and MTV, is trying to revive its own flagging share price with a plan to split itself into two separate entities, one based on CBS, the other centered on MTV and other cable channels including VH1 and Nickelodeon. But so far its shares haven't seen a big boost.


News Corp., the media conglomerate controlled by Rupert Murdoch, has also announced a $3 billion share buyback.*


----------



## EricHarrison

Anyone using this for OTA reception? I just got one yesterday, and I cannot pull in WKYC now. Do they (WKYC) have PSIP issues since this is a very picky HD receiver? I have had no problems with my Voom, and old Zenith HD receivers in the past picking up WKYC


----------



## rocatman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricHarrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone using this for OTA reception? I just got one yesterday, and I cannot pull in WKYC now. Do they (WKYC) have PSIP issues since this is a very picky HD receiver? I have had no problems with my Voom, and old Zenith HD receivers in the past picking up WKYC



I use a Dish 811 in Lagrange which is about 23 miles from the towers. I use an amplified indoor antenna in my garage attic. I have the VHF rabbit ears basically horizontal since WKYC is on channel 2, a low frequency, large wavelength channel. I use to have frequent reception problems but I have had very few the last couple of months.


----------



## EricHarrison




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rocatman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I use a Dish 811 in Lagrange which is about 23 miles from the towers. I use an amplified indoor antenna in my garage attic. I have the VHF rabbit ears basically horizontal since WKYC is on channel 2, a low frequency, large wavelength channel. I use to have frequent reception problems but I have had very few the last couple of months.



I am in Wellington, so I am not that far from you. I have a ratshack rooftop antenna, so I should be pulling this in. I dont understand the problem......

What is the last software update that you have?


----------



## kosar1985

I called D* the other day about getting Fox in HD in my area(pulling from NY), the said I needed a waiver for it, but a post earlier said that they didn't need one, also i have a phillips silver sensor indoor antenna and I cant pick up channel 3 with it. Do I need a better indoor antenna or just get a small outdoor. I can get the other stations at about 93% (channels 5.1 &8.1) channel 19.1 comes in at about 63-69%.


----------



## gnalmij

Kosar-

Directv's business model is to always have an idiot answer the first you time you call. It's a test to see if you really, really want what you want. The first time I called to get the NY Fox feed, I fought with the CSR for 15 minutes, read the Directv website to her, explained that Fox in Cleveland is O&O so I'm entitled to the Fox NY feed without a waiver, and all I got from her was disdain. Eventually she transferred me to the HD group, and a very nice gentleman turned on the NY Fox in about 30 seconds after checking my zip code. You must really want it in order to get it. Call back, and don't give up. The key is that Cleveland is Owned and Operated so a waiver is not needed, and ask for a transfer to someone that knows HD. The front-line CSRs work off a script that is wrong, but it's all they know.

Good luck-

Gnalmij


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Eventually she transferred me to the HD group, and a very nice gentleman turned on the NY Fox in about 30 seconds after checking my zip code.
> 
> Good luck-
> 
> Gnalmij



Hi Gnalmij,

just curious, does your DirecTv sub include Cleveland locals?


thx,

Tom


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kosar-
> 
> Directv's business model is to always have an idiot answer the first you time you call. It's a test to see if you really, really want what you want. The first time I called to get the NY Fox feed, I fought with the CSR for 15 minutes, read the Directv website to her, explained that Fox in Cleveland is O&O so I'm entitled to the Fox NY feed without a waiver, and all I got from her was disdain. Eventually she transferred me to the HD group, and a very nice gentleman turned on the NY Fox in about 30 seconds after checking my zip code. You must really want it in order to get it. Call back, and don't give up. The key is that Cleveland is Owned and Operated so a waiver is not needed, and ask for a transfer to someone that knows HD. The front-line CSRs work off a script that is wrong, but it's all they know.
> 
> Good luck-
> 
> Gnalmij



thank you, i'm going to try again


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Gnalmij,
> 
> just curious, does your DirecTv sub include Cleveland locals?
> 
> 
> thx,
> 
> Tom



I'll jump in and say I've got DirecTV with the HD package and the Cleveland locals, and I was able to get the Fox East HD feed turned on without a waiver. It shows up as a line item on your D* bill, for no charge. So when the CSR says "it will appear on your next bill", do not be alarmed, there's no fee for it.


Note that after I got it turned on, it worked for a couple weeks, then went out for a while. I had to call back to get the box "hit" again. I assumed it's because this O&O not-really-a-waiver Fox East request is not that common an item and their system is a bit flaky as far as enabling the boxes.



-- Paul


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NY's HD broadcast of the Browns/Giants (tape delayed and shown Sun night @ 11pm on NFL Network) was quite nice, with several HD cameras. The pq was very good, and the local NY crew was pretty good, albeit Giant biased, of course.
> 
> 
> Ted



I just got back from a road trip and checked out a bit of the NFL Network / NBC NY game recorded on my WOW SA8000HD and it looked really good. There was one SD camera in the mix, but they didn't use it much. The broadcast was 1080i and had an HDNet quality about it, but that may have been because it didn't have all the extra graphics, music and additional "production" that goes into a regular season game from the main networks. It wasn't DD5.1 but there were some surround effects going on as I could hear people in the stands in the rear channels.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kosar-
> 
> Directv's business model is to always have an idiot answer the first you time you call. It's a test to see if you really, really want what you want. The first time I called to get the NY Fox feed, I fought with the CSR for 15 minutes, read the Directv website to her, explained that Fox in Cleveland is O&O so I'm entitled to the Fox NY feed without a waiver, and all I got from her was disdain. Eventually she transferred me to the HD group, and a very nice gentleman turned on the NY Fox in about 30 seconds after checking my zip code. You must really want it in order to get it. Call back, and don't give up. The key is that Cleveland is Owned and Operated so a waiver is not needed, and ask for a transfer to someone that knows HD. The front-line CSRs work off a script that is wrong, but it's all they know.
> 
> Good luck-
> 
> Gnalmij



they keep on saying that if you had it longer then 6 months ago you didnt need a waiver, but as of now i need a waiver


----------



## kosar1985

this is getting to be b.s. with these people


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll jump in and say I've got DirecTV with the HD package and the Cleveland locals, and I was able to get the Fox East HD feed turned on without a waiver. It shows up as a line item on your D* bill, for no charge. So when the CSR says "it will appear on your next bill", do not be alarmed, there's no fee for it.
> 
> 
> Note that after I got it turned on, it worked for a couple weeks, then went out for a while. I had to call back to get the box "hit" again. I assumed it's because this O&O not-really-a-waiver Fox East request is not that common an item and their system is a bit flaky as far as enabling the boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> -- Paul



Thx Paul,

I wondered if DirecTv is requiring the Cleveland local sub before they'd turn on Fox HD NY(88). Supposedly a revision in Shvera is requiring a sub to SD locals before they'll turn on any DNS HD channel.


Tom


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> they keep on saying that if you had it longer then 6 months ago you didnt need a waiver, but as of now i need a waiver



So get a waiver then. It's no big deal. I got one when I was with D* down in Cincinnati and I knew for a fact that I could get local reception. They should put the request in for you and you call them back in a certain amount of time and that is it.


----------



## DaMavs

I just called DirecTV about a couple other things (HD Tivo offer & NFL ST Superfan) and also asked about getting Fox activated. Apparently due to the law change in March, they now require a waiver even if it is an O&O station. So they submitted waivers for all 4 for me & I just need to wait on a letter saying approved (or not) for it to activate. I only expect Fox to say yes obviously, but they wanted to ask all 4, so why not?


Bottom line is I think prior to March, you could have called and activated it with a phone call (as many here did), but now you have to go through the waiver procedure (which is no work for you). Shame I was so good at procrastinating that I put off the phone call for so long...


----------



## gnalmij

I have the HD package and local channels, but I do not believe that either is required in order to get Fox on D* Channel 88. Only a TOTAL CHOICE package is required, according to D*'s own website (see below). The website mentions a waiver from a "non-local Fox affiliate", which I think means a non-O&O affiliate that is not local but is close enough (say Toledo, for example) to have a say on whether you receive the NY feed. There is no conflict that I know of for Cleveland.


The CSRs will always say you need a waiver because they only know about DNS, not about receiving the HD feed when you are in an O&O market.


Kosar - try calling the HD Eligibility Group of D* at 1-800-263-0028.


From the D* website:


There are three ways to receive FOX HDTV programming:


1. FOX HDTV programming may be available in select markets to some DIRECTV customers who have HD equipment and a TOTAL CHOICE® programming package or the DIRECTV HD Package. The FOX HDTV programming currently available for eligible customers is from either WNYW (New York) or KTTV (Los Angeles), depending upon your geographic location. The select markets where eligible customers may receive the feeds are: New York, NY, Los Angeles, CA, Chicago, IL, Philadelphia, PA, Boston, MA, Dallas, TX, Washington D.C., Minneapolis, MN, Detroit, MI, Atlanta, GA, Houston, TX, Tampa Bay, FL, Orlando, FL, Cleveland, OH, Phoenix, AZ, Denver, CO, St. Louis, MO, Milwaukee, WI, Kansas City, MO, Salt Lake City, UT, Birmingham, AL, Memphis, TN, Greensboro, NC, and Austin, TX. If you cannot see a picture on channel 88 or 89, and you live in one of these markets, you may need to obtain a waiver from one or more non-local FOX affiliates. This can take up to 45 days to process.


Please note, that in the near future, DIRECTV will be launching new state-of-the-art satellites to deliver HD local channel feeds from additional markets. When local HD channels launch in your market, you may no longer be able to see the New York and Los Angeles programming feeds, and a new dish and HD receiver will be required to see your local market HD channels.


2. Customers eligible for Distant Network Services who have HD equipment may receive FOX HDTV as part of their DNS subscription.

Find out if you qualify.


3. You may also access FOX HDTV via off-air antenna in many markets where DIRECTV doesn't offer access via satellite.


WHAT EQUIPMENT DO I NEED?


To start enjoying the benefits of high-definition programming from

DIRECTV, you'll need the following equipment:


1. HD-Capable TV Set

2. DIRECTV HD Receiver

3. Triple LNB Multi-Satellite Dish

4. Off-Air Antenna (Optional)


WHAT CHANNEL IS FOX HDTV PROGRAMMING ON?


Customers in the Central and Eastern Time zones receive FOX HDTV programming on channel 88 (WNYW, New York).


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The CSRs will always say you need a waiver because they only know about DNS, not about receiving the HD feed when you are in an O&O market.
> 
> 
> Kosar - try calling the HD Eligibility Group of D* at 1-800-263-0028.



FWIW I was transferred to the HD group from "retention" to discuss adding Fox and the answer I got was the same - that waivers are required now. When I quizzed her as to why now & not in the past she claimed the March law change.


Could be bad info, but unless someone has gotten Fox 88 added since March w/o a waiver, I remain unconvinced. Anyone add the Fox East coast feed recently?


----------



## gnalmij

Looking at an FCC fact sheet on the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and

Reauthorization Act of 2004 (SHVERA), it does discuss that you will have to subscribe to locals in order to get distant feeds. There's also some BS allowance for distant channels that are "significantly viewed" in your area (on cable?) that the satellite company may provide if you subscribe to locals. TBS Superstation maybe? This is all analog, however. With regard to digital, the fact sheet says this:


Distant Digital Signals

In general, if a satellite carrier offers

local-into-local digital signals in your area, it is

not allowed to offer you distant digital signals,

unless you were receiving distant digital

signals as of December 8, 2004. At this time,

no satellite carriers are offering local-into-local

digital signals.

Subscribers who are unserved with respect

to analog service are eligible for distant digital

signals. Satellite carriers are not required to

offer distant digital signals.


I read this to mean that once D* offers local-to-local HD, which is the future plan via MPEG4, it will not be able to offer the NY feeds unless you received it as of 12-8-04. But D* isn't offering local-to-local HD yet.


----------



## EricG

I too can get nowwhere with the HD qualification specialists. It looks as though we all need waivers. So they sent all 4 in for me as well. Now I'm just waiting.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I too can get nowwhere with the HD qualification specialists. It looks as though we all need waivers. So they sent all 4 in for me as well. Now I'm just waiting.



Hi Eric,

Did they specify the waivers they put in were for HD DNS (opposed to SD DNS)?


Tom


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you that watch us:
> 
> 
> Our studio took a pretty good power hit this morning that blew up our upconverter. I'm supposed to have a loaner here tomorrow, but until then we will be SD 480i only both OTA and cable.



Thanks for the heads-up Robert.


Just in case you are interested: I live in Parma, I can see most of the Cleveland towers out my back window (due north) and get WFMJ some Summer evenings after 10 PM with a Silver Sensor. I did catch The Tonight Show in SD and was wondering what was going on. Now that it's getting cooler outside I'm going to try to put up an outdoor antenna aimed at Youngstown. Your "WBCB" is the only digital WB in northern Ohio at this time.


Do you know what's up with WKBN? When will they put up their DT signal? I've seen some blips on my signal meter for ch 41, however that could be Detroit's WXYZ and not WKBN.


----------



## paule123

I checked my DirecTV bill history, and this is the line item on my bill:


08/16/05 09/15/05 HD Package Monthly 10.99

08/16/05 09/15/05 TOTAL CHOICE Monthly 41.99

08/16/05 09/15/05 Network: FOX HD Available w/Local or HD Pkg 0.00


Note it says "with Local *or* HD package", so I guess you need one of those to get FOX HD.


My FOX HD was activated before the March law change, so I'm lucky I guess.


-- Paul


----------



## Felony44

Hey guys im new to hd and need anntenna help i too am waitn on DTV to send me confirmation to get local hds but in mean time im tryn to get over air to work i have a rca 3810 "the problem hd tv" but its been restored and works great. i live in Eastlake what size antenna do i need if i go with a roof mount? whats a good brand and what if any extras do i need and when i get it to work how do i get the hd channels to come in is fox like 8.1 and nbc 3.1 ?


thanks


----------



## intermod

Do you know what's up with WKBN? When will they put up their DT signal? I've seen some blips on my signal meter for ch 41, however that could be Detroit's WXYZ and not WKBN.[/quote]



Sounds like your near me. WXYZ has 2 sub-channels. One with Det. radar and another with

a towercam.. Maybe that info will help you ID the station. BTW. I have never locked on ANY eastern

digital stations, erie, Y-town or pitts. Some of the analogs come in fine. I have a long UHF Yagi

w/ rotator and am thinking about putting my old channelmaster 3018 VHF/UHF combo back up

but mounted below the rotator and pointed at 3/19 towers. Just need to figure out a vhf/Uhf

combiner.


Good luck


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up Robert.
> 
> 
> Do you know what's up with WKBN? When will they put up their DT signal? I've seen some blips on my signal meter for ch 41, however that could be Detroit's WXYZ and not WKBN.




WKBN is not on the air yet. They've had a lot of problems with getting a construction permit and getting the people that own their towers to make modifications so they can mount equipment.


It looks like I won't have a replacement upconverter until beginning of next week now. The good news is it's the latest and greatest so it should improve our SD upconverted PQ.


----------



## SteveC

Thanks for the updates Robert. We appreciate your participation in this forum very much.

Steve


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys im new to hd and need anntenna help i too am waitn on DTV to send me confirmation to get local hds but in mean time im tryn to get over air to work i have a rca 3810 "the problem hd tv" but its been restored and works great. i live in Eastlake what size antenna do i need if i go with a roof mount? whats a good brand and what if any extras do i need and when i get it to work how do i get the hd channels to come in is fox like 8.1 and nbc 3.1 ?
> 
> 
> thanks



Go to this site: http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx to help determine the size of antenna you need. The only "extras" you might need besides the coax cable and connectors are an amp and rotor. Your local Radio Shack should be able to help you out or you could try these other websites for equipment:
http://starkelectronic.com/ 
http://www.solidsignal.com/ 

Steve


----------



## paule123

FYI, CBS has posted the HD schedule for the first four weeks of the regular NFL season.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl 


So far Week #2, Cleveland @ Green Bay is the only HD Browns game (as far as CBS is concerned)


And to repeat as others have said there is a near 100% chance we'll get any Browns games on Fox in HD (there's two of them), and 100% chance we get the one ESPN Sunday night game in HD.


----------



## handsworth

Hello All,


No new info since I last posted way back but I found this sports TV guide which was very informative and up to date for all sports in HD. http://www.hdsportsguide.com 


Also I heard from a source that Cleveland area ABC (WEWS HD ch 705) was going black for a few days for equipment replacement and or upgrades. I think they said 8/23 thru 8/26. Adelphia has already alerted their CSR team.


----------



## kosar1985

what is going on with the browns pre-game


----------



## paule123

I know this is not an HD game, but the PQ on this Browns/Lions game on WOIO is really really bad. Maybe I am spoiled by HD football, but this seems really awful to me. NFL Network is simulcasting the Detroit UPN feed and the PQ is not much better there.


----------



## stuart628

yeah, this broadcast is horrible, it is full of sound breakups and everything on my end (could just be my 811) but I am at 70% and the feed is NASTY, picture quality is bad as well. I am telling you what this is going to tick me off if this is what football season is going ot be like, CBS is def a problem station. Are they broadcasting at full power? its just weird, I love my OTA, I get everything at 80% including nbc now that I have a good antenna, cbs comes in at 70% and is full of breakups and the sound coming in and out, I am just hoping its this broadcast. Usually csi is good for me so I am leaning towards it being something in the air today, but I hope this dosent go on all season.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> yeah, this broadcast is horrible, it is full of sound breakups and everything on my end (could just be my 811) but I am at 70% and the feed is NASTY, picture quality is bad as well. I am telling you what this is going to tick me off if this is what football season is going ot be like, CBS is def a problem station. Are they broadcasting at full power? its just weird, I love my OTA, I get everything at 80% including nbc now that I have a good antenna, cbs comes in at 70% and is full of breakups and the sound coming in and out, I am just hoping its this broadcast. Usually csi is good for me so I am leaning towards it being something in the air today, but I hope this dosent go on all season.



yeah the PQ was real aweful for this game, but CBS didn't run the game WOIO did. Does anyone know a number to call and complain about WOIO PQ


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> yeah the PQ was real aweful for this game, but CBS didn't run the game WOIO did. Does anyone know a number to call and complain about WOIO PQ



Heh Heh....try 1-800-4getaboutit.










Seriously you can get a number from WOIO's website, but I doubt it will do any good at all to complain. The company that owns them is Raycom and from what I've seen from others who have tried to contact them to complain about something there is no response.


Inundated thinks very highly of this channel. I'm sure he can give you some advice if he see's this post.


----------



## jtscherne

The question I have is: how was the broadcast for people watching it over cable? Were there breakups on the cable HD channel broadcast? (I know it wasn't high definition) I know Channel 19 is claiming that weather was a problem (there were some major storms going on between Detroit and Cleveland).


I think Channel 19 is having major growing pains with broadcasting live sports. The Golic replacement is the most obvious example.


I know I still have problems picking up the HD station OTA (Friday night I watched the CBS HD game from Toledo because it came in stronger!)


----------



## paule123

I watched the game on WOW cable and didn't have any breakups, but I must admit I switched to the analog channel about 10 minutes into the game because the picture quality was more acceptable to me than the digital broadcast. (it wasn't really better, I think it's because my brain can process a crappy picture on a known crappy analog channel better than it can process a crappy picture on a digital channel)


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched the game on WOW cable and didn't have any breakups, but I must admit I switched to the analog channel about 10 minutes into the game because the picture quality was more acceptable to me than the digital broadcast. (it wasn't really better, I think it's because my brain can process a crappy picture on a known crappy analog channel better than it can process a crappy picture on a digital channel)



yeah, the pq on the digital channel was really horriable. Also, with the superfan package does that increase my odds to see the Browns in HD


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> yeah, the pq on the digital channel was really horriable. Also, with the superfan package does that increase my odds to see the Browns in HD



No it does not. You will see the whatever ch19 gives you for the browns. Nothing more as far as the browns are concerned


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> yeah, the pq on the digital channel was really horriable. Also, with the superfan package does that increase my odds to see the Browns in HD



...what prevents me from ordering NFL ST or Superfan is that all local games are blacked out.


----------



## Gary16

In case you missed this announcement elsewhere, please note the following from ABC regarding HD telecasts this week (this applies nationwide):


Attention HDTV Affiliates - No HDTV Feed 8/23/05 to 8/26/05



ABC will be upgrading its HDTV release facility including a replacement of the HD router. In order to accomplish this work in a timely manner, a four (4) day shutdown of the HD release facility will be required.



Accordingly, beginning Tuesday 8/23/2005 and continuing through Friday 8/26/2005, ABC will not offer an HDTV feed for either ECM or PT feeds. In addition, an upconverted SD feed will not be transmitted either. No HDTV transmission will take place in prime time, because doing so requires the use of the HDTV router and the release facility. During this time, stations are urged to upconvert the normal network SD feed, as many do now for non-primetime network and for local programming.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In case you missed this announcement elsewhere, please note the following from ABC regarding HD telecasts this week (this applies nationwide):
> 
> 
> Attention HDTV Affiliates - No HDTV Feed 8/23/05 to 8/26/05



We saw this earlier in the thread, but at the time it sounded like a local thing...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like your near me. WXYZ has 2 sub-channels. One with Det. radar and another with
> 
> a towercam.. Maybe that info will help you ID the station. BTW. I have never locked on ANY eastern
> 
> digital stations, erie, Y-town or pitts. Some of the analogs come in fine. I have a long UHF Yagi
> 
> w/ rotator and am thinking about putting my old channelmaster 3018 VHF/UHF combo back up
> 
> but mounted below the rotator and pointed at 3/19 towers. Just need to figure out a vhf/Uhf
> 
> combiner.
> 
> 
> Good luck



Howdy neighbor!


I'm up near Hoertz & Sprague, the "Ridgewood antenna-mile" is virtually due north of me. I get the Youngstown DT's when the skip is up (usually during the 11 PM news) using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna. I just moved here from Seven Hills, where I logged WPXI-DT (Pittsburgh NBC w/"Weather Plus") in addition to the Youngstown NBC & ABC DT's. I never got a lock on WXYZ. I'm hoping to do better once I can get on the roof with an outdoor antenna.


Sounds like you need a higher antenna if you want to lock onto anything to the east or southeast. I'm over 1100' above sea level here (I was 1060' at Seven Hills). The high point is in Broadview Hts. (a little over 1200') so that blocks the signal to just about everyone else in Cuyahoga County (It's why ch 23 was so hard to tune in, they used to be an ABC and had to "protect" WEWS's exclusivity to ABC in Cleveland).


----------



## Michael P 2341

So when will WBNX & WVPX begin digital broadcasting? At the rate they are going the transition will be over before they even begin to be in DT.


Also what will happen to the LPTV & Class A stations after the transition? I know most of them are not worth worrying over, however I do watch "The Cat" from time to time. That is the only LP station here that is doing what the FCC wanted for the LP service (as opposed to rebroadcsting a national satellite shopping or religious feed 24/7).


----------



## kosar1985

does anyone know where the towers are located, is there a website I can go to see where they are. Also looking for a outdoor antenna, I have the silver sensor indoor. I can get: 5.1 , 8.1 (at about 93%) channel 19.1 is about 63-69%. I'm thinking all i need is a small or medium size antenna. I've already been the the antenna.org website, but i wanted to know what antennas people who live in Medina are using. I live on 57 south about 2 minutes from the square.


----------



## kosar1985

I forgot to mention that i can't pick up channel 3.1 3.2 or 3.3 at all. Also, I got a waiver from fox to get the NY feed, but not anything else yet.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I forgot to mention that i can't pick up channel 3.1 3.2 or 3.3 at all. Also, I got a waiver from fox to get the NY feed, but not anything else yet.



That's Great!....glad to hear u got it. Did they require Cleveland locals before they'd turn on 88?


Congrats!

Tom


----------



## kosar1985




Tom in OH said:


> That's Great!....glad to hear u got it. Did they require Cleveland locals before they'd turn on 88?
> 
> 
> They said that since I have my locals, thhat I wouldnt probaly be gettin the NY feed. Everyone in the forum has said that WJW is O&O by fox and that is why people are most likely to get the Fox feed from NY


----------



## hookbill




kosar1985 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's Great!....glad to hear u got it. Did they require Cleveland locals before they'd turn on 88?
> 
> 
> They said that since I have my locals, thhat I wouldnt probaly be gettin the NY feed. Everyone in the forum has said that WJW is O&O by fox and that is why people are most likely to get the Fox feed from NY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that was my thinking on that too. I'm not surprised they gave you the NY feed. Did you get L.A. feed too?
Click to expand...


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So when will WBNX & WVPX begin digital broadcasting? At the rate they are going the transition will be over before they even begin to be in DT.



Both are being held up by Canada, due to interference to Canadian allocations on WBNX's and WVPX's DT channel assignents, and the FCC has not granted DT construction permits.


WVPX supposedly has Canadian coordination/interference issues on both its DT allocation(59) and its analog (and post-transition digital) allocation (23).


In the third round of channel elections (which I believe is scheduled for next year), stations whose DT's are being held up due to international coordination issues will be able to request another post-transition digital channel


So it's possible that neither of them will be broadcasting digitally until analog shutdown happens.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also what will happen to the LPTV & Class A stations after the transition? I know most of them are not worth worrying over, however I do watch "The Cat" from time to time. That is the only LP station here that is doing what the FCC wanted for the LP service (as opposed to rebroadcsting a national satellite shopping or religious feed 24/7).



I am curious about the LPTV's as well. I assume that they will "flash convert" near the end of the digital transition.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> does anyone know where the towers are located, is there a website I can go to see where they are. Also looking for a outdoor antenna, I have the silver sensor indoor. I can get: 5.1 , 8.1 (at about 93%) channel 19.1 is about 63-69%. I'm thinking all i need is a small or medium size antenna. I've already been the the antenna.org website, but i wanted to know what antennas people who live in Medina are using. I live on 57 south about 2 minutes from the square.



If you know your exact latitude & longitude coordinates (and compass offset) I have another site that will give you more accurate compass headings down to the degree:

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp 


As far as what antennas people are using in Medina, I would have to guess that a moderate sized VHF/UHF combo would work. If you were interested in the Akron/Canton stations you would need a rotor, otherwise I'd just aim it in the general direction of Parma (or at the compass coordinate of the weakest station WKYC).


If you wanted to know the location of all the Cleveland transmitters I can tell you since I'm virtually surrounded by them, the tower lights illuminate my back yard







.


WJW is at the corner of State Rd. & Pleasant Valley Rd. WEWS is north of WJW on State, WUAB is next door to WEWS. The following are all on Ridgewood between State & Broadview (in order fron west to east) WQHS, WBNX (and all the LPTV's on the WBNX tower), WOIO. WKYC is on Broadview just south of WOIO.


WVIZ's analog tower is in North Royalton west of Ridge near Wallings Rd. Their temporary digital transmitter is located at their studios on Brookpark Rd. just west of state (on a 99' tower with 1kw of power). I could not get a lock on WVIZ's digital signal in Seven Hills, but I do now since I moved 2 miles west (and 100' higher) in Parma.


BTW: WKYC no longer has a subchannel on 3.3 since "Weather Plus" began on 3.2


Just for fun, check out this site: http://www.fybush.com/sites/2004/site-040212.html


----------



## Inundated

Complicating things even more for WVPX going digital - the precarious financial position of their parent company, PAX (now broadcasting as "i"). It's quite possible that by the time they clear up all the Canadian-related problems, Paxson Communications won't even own the station. Since they don't do HD (or for that matter, the local news programming anymore), I'm not losing sleep over it.


The LPTVs and Class A's, like WAOH-LP/W35AX, will likely flash cut over. There are a handful of digital only LPs, mostly translators, many of them in the Norfolk, VA area. Judging by my knowledge of 29/35's ownership, they'll probably convert at the last possible moment, and certainly will not feature HD programming of any sort. Anyone who's been to their studios (with co-owned WNIR/100.1) on Rt. 59 would confirm this.


I'm still wondering if WVIZ is on target to go full power out of North Royalton soon, or as someone suggested on this thread (but did not elaborate or provide actual evidence about) they have more problems.


----------



## jtscherne

ESPN has scheduled the Indians/Twins Sunday game on September 11th as their Sunday night game. Unfortunately, this is the first weekend that the game moves from ESPN to ESPN2 because of football. While ESPN has national rights for Sunday, this game might not be in HD (the same situation happened last year and the game was in SD).


Just a heads-up!


----------



## kosar1985

i don't like the Indians but I was reading on a website http://www.hdsportsguide.com/ , that espn2 will be in HD starting September 9th


----------



## Inundated

ESPN2 has BEEN in HD for months now. And those of us who have Adelphia in the Cleveland area have had it for most of that time...the September 9th date is the day that DirecTV is supposed to add ESPN2HD.


This page on that HDTV Sports Guide site confirms that the ESPN2 game will be in HD. As of the listing for September 11th, the teams are listed as "TBD" (to be determined).

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/mlb.php


----------



## jtscherne

ESPN's website now lists the game as definitely being in HD on ESPN2. The good thing is that the Sunday night game is never blacked out, so anyone with access to ESPN2HD will be able to see the game.


----------



## Inundated

Anyone watching the Browns game on WOIO-DT tonight? (Obviously not HD, of course...) I'm watching it on Adelphia 704.


Am I the only one noticing that the feed on the digital channel appears to be running at a weird frame rate? It looks like the game is being shown on film, vs. live! The same effect is not seen on the analog version of WOIO (digitally fed on Adelphia 4).


I haven't checked the OTA feed of WOIO-DT to see if it has the same problem. The "19 Action News" halftime cut-in did not have this problem on WOIO-DT...odd.


EDIT: Odd, it's not looking the same way in the second half. Maybe they tweaked something?


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone watching the Browns game on WOIO-DT tonight? (Obviously not HD, of course...) I'm watching it on Adelphia 704.
> 
> 
> Am I the only one noticing that the feed on the digital channel appears to be running at a weird frame rate? It looks like the game is being shown on film, vs. live! The same effect is not seen on the analog version of WOIO (digitally fed on Adelphia 4).
> 
> 
> I haven't checked the OTA feed of WOIO-DT to see if it has the same problem. The "19 Action News" halftime cut-in did not have this problem on WOIO-DT...odd.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Odd, it's not looking the same way in the second half. Maybe they tweaked something?



I noticed this last week on a news promo and Lettermen, their equipment must be having issues. Using WideOpenWest HD.


----------



## Inundated

Check the game again...it's happening again. OTA, as well.


----------



## paule123

Yeah, they've got something weird going on the digital side. Freeze frame / stutter frame sort of effect. I switched to analog to avoid a headache, the digital feed is unwatchable. They've got the contrast turned all the way up, typical of their garish newscasts. The PQ (analog) is particularly bad tonight, worse than last week.


It's just amazing that they let this **** go out over the air without any quality control.


We should start a 50" plasma fund for these networks so they can see the crap they are spewing forth. We should start with Rupert Murdoch.


----------



## kosar1985

the pq is really bad for WOIO. Does anyone know a number to complain about it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the pq is really bad for WOIO. Does anyone know a number to complain about it.



Oh, you could call them, but they won't listen.







Last I remembered, the number (down here) is 877-929-1943 or something of the ilk.


The only way we'll get better PQ out of WOIO is if Raycom sells the place to a real broadcast company.


----------



## Cleveland Plasma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone watching the Browns game on WOIO-DT tonight? (Obviously not HD, of course...)



Why Is this? They can not afford HD cameras? I take it non of the home games will be in HD? I do not know if you noticed, just like always the Steelers game was in HD last night. (Note I run with Adelphia also.)


----------



## Phoenix2088

Here is a list of all the e-mail addresses I found at WOIO/WUAB's website. Please e-mail them about the issue, someone is bound to read it.

[email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected]


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cleveland Plasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why Is this? They can not afford HD cameras? I take it non of the home games will be in HD? I do not know if you noticed, just like always the Steelers game was in HD last night. (Note I run with Adelphia also.)



Well this dead horse is almost beat, but if you look further back in the thread you'll find that:


- None of the preseason Browns games are in HD. Preseason games are WOIO's responsibility, and no, they are not going to invest in millions of dollars of HD equipment for four meaningless preseason games. Technically speaking, the Browns/Giants game was HD on NBC4 NY to the New York viewers, because NBC4 NY spent the bucks to do it. It was also viewable on NFL Network HD on cable.


- For the regular season, CBS is limited to 3 HD games per Sunday, supposedly because they are limited by their satellite capability and number of HD production trucks. So the 3 HD games per week on CBS will go to the teams with the largest markets and best matchups. You can bet Browns/Bengals will not be one of them.


- CBS announces on their website about 3-4 weeks ahead of time which 3 games will be in HD for the next 3-4 weeks. They have already announced what's going to be in HD in weeks 1 through 4.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> - None of the preseason Browns games are in HD. Preseason games are WOIO's responsibility, and no, they are not going to invest in millions of dollars of HD equipment for four meaningless preseason games.



While I actually can't fault WOIO for that, it's still frustrating that we have NO local sports events in HD in the Cleveland market. Period.


Other markets even have HD versions of their RSN, but not Fox Sports Net Ohio. I realize this is still growing, but it doesn't seem to be happening here.


If WOIO was able to get the equipment needed to do the Browns games in HD (by leasing the HD production truck, etc.), they could also do the same for the Cavs games on co-owned WUAB/43. But it doesn't appear to be happening. I'd like to see it start, but it isn't likely in the next year, at least.


----------



## hookbill

Although Cleveland is not as small of a market as let's say Cincinnati, it's still not a big time city. There are only a few of those. Los Angeles, New York, and Chicago.


And to think, L.A. DOESN'T have a football team.


But I'll bet they get every football game in HD, because it's a huge market and it's CBS station is company owned.


----------



## Cleveland Plasma

Well Pittsburg is not a huge city but almost every game I have seen including the preseason game yesterday was in HD. I figured they would have this fixed this year. Looks like Cleveland is not important enough I take it? Will there be any home games in HD? Watching a game in SD is a waste of time after seeing a game in HD!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cleveland Plasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well Pittsburg is not a huge city but almost every game I have seen including the preseason game yesterday was in HD. I figured they would have this fixed this year. Looks like Cleveland is not important enough I take it? Will there be any home games in HD? Watching a game in SD is a waste of time after seeing a game in HD!!



CBS as reported earlier has made the decision to only show 3 HD games a week. So far only one of the Browns games are scheduled. Since CBS shows most of the Browns games, you can only hope they will show more.


----------



## Inundated

I'm with Chris on this one. Not all markets that have HD local sports are the huge ones. The Steelers' preseason games have been in HD for a couple of years now. Cox Cable in San Diego has an HD channel for the Padres, and SD is (I believe) a smaller market than Cleveland/Akron.


The market size thing explains SOME of it...but part of it is because Raycom owns WOIO/WUAB, and those two stations have the over-air sports rights for the Cavs and Browns. And as for FSN Ohio, they don't even program any local shows aside from Cavs and Indians games and pre/post-games.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Unless you live down the street from WVIZ or have Adelphia, PBS HD will not be coming until early 2006. As someone mentioned earlier about the rumor that the tower issues are not over is correct.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately we were not able to work out our tower issues as quickly

as we had hoped. It now appears that we will not be up to full power

this year. Our current assumption is that we will be operating our full

power DTV transmitter early in 2006.


Gary



Gary Bluhm

Director of Engineering

WVIZ/PBS, 90.3 WCPN

ideastream Cleveland


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While I actually can't fault WOIO for that, it's still frustrating that we have NO local sports events in HD in the Cleveland market. Period.
> 
> 
> Other markets even have HD versions of their RSN, but not Fox Sports Net Ohio. I realize this is still growing, but it doesn't seem to be happening here.



I would suggest that people start pushing FSN Ohio to consider HD broadcasting, but right now the Indians contract with them is up at the end of the season and I haven't read anything recently about the status of negotiations.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone watching the Browns game on WOIO-DT tonight? (Obviously not HD, of course...) I'm watching it on Adelphia 704.
> 
> 
> Am I the only one noticing that the feed on the digital channel appears to be running at a weird frame rate? It looks like the game is being shown on film, vs. live! The same effect is not seen on the analog version of WOIO (digitally fed on Adelphia 4).
> 
> 
> I haven't checked the OTA feed of WOIO-DT to see if it has the same problem. The "19 Action News" halftime cut-in did not have this problem on WOIO-DT...odd.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Odd, it's not looking the same way in the second half. Maybe they tweaked something?



I noticed it too. It looked like streaming video off the internet. I was watching OTA using an Echostar 921. I switched to the analog 19 and there was no "jitter".


WOIO has the worst over-the-air digital picture of all the Cleveland digital stations. On the 921 the chroma pulses (I'm watching via the S-video/SD output). From what I understand this issue is limited to the SD output only. Delaying the program by 3 seconds fixes the chroma pulsing problem, still why is it only with WOIO? It's not an issue of signal strength, as I am closer to WJW (.8 of a mile) and do not have an issue with that siganl, nor any other signal including Raycom's other station (they could give a little more bandwidth to "The Tube" however).


I believe the jitter problem is limited to locally originated programs only. I do not see the jitter on CBS programming, however I did see the jitter on 19 Action News. I used to think they were doing the jitter on puropse, as I have seen it used as an (annoying) effect on other programs (usually youth-oriented, someone must think the jitter is hip).


----------



## Inundated

Thanks, Phoenix, for the update from Mr. Bluhm. I wonder what issues he's talking about? When I E-Mailed him late last year, I was under the impression that the legal issues with Infinity were settled. Maybe there are some other technical issues.


Oh, well, as I mentioned, I get WVIZ's version of PBS HD on Adelphia, and WEAO's OTA, so I'm not terribly concerned. I'm just curious.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would suggest that people start pushing FSN Ohio to consider HD broadcasting, but right now the Indians contract with them is up at the end of the season and I haven't read anything recently about the status of negotiations.



Unfortunately, FSN having an exclusive on TV games is part of the problem here, though it wouldn't get any better if 19/43 had any over air games, and none of the market's other operators are doing local HD...aside from WJW's newscasts.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe the jitter problem is limited to locally originated programs only. I do not see the jitter on CBS programming, however I did see the jitter on 19 Action News. I used to think they were doing the jitter on puropse, as I have seen it used as an (annoying) effect on other programs (usually youth-oriented, someone must think the jitter is hip).



But the jitter comes and goes, and doesn't have any rhyme or reason behind it. Other than that, I wouldn't put it past them.










You're correct...it's only on the local upconvert by WOIO. Anything CBS sends, even in SD digital, is fine. WOIO is basically a waste of TV airspace, and I wouldn't watch it if it were not a network affiliate, and the home of the Browns.


----------



## frank10

will the bucks' game against miami be in HD on wews?


----------



## SteveC

Looks like Time Warner Cable has added the Universal HD channel to their HD lineup. I was watching the U.S. Open tennis tournament last night in beautiful HD. Perfect timing. Thanks TWC. Hopefully it will be stay around after the tournament is over. I never did see an official announcement for this.

Steve


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> will the bucks' game against miami be in HD on wews?



Based on current information from ABC, only prime time college games will be in HD.


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like Time Warner Cable has added the Universal HD channel to their HD lineup. I was watching the U.S. Open tennis tournament last night in beautiful HD. Perfect timing. Thanks TWC. Hopefully it will be stay around after the tournament is over. I never did see an official announcement for this.
> 
> Steve




What TWC location are you? I am in Canton, OH.


I am not familiar with the "Universal HD channel".


We have INHD & INHD2. Is this what you are talking about?


----------



## frank10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Based on current information from ABC, only prime time college games will be in HD.



not good. i also checked titantv and the game is not HD. even the game against texas is listed as non HD


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What TWC location are you? I am in Canton, OH.
> 
> 
> I am not familiar with the "Universal HD channel".
> 
> 
> We have INHD & INHD2. Is this what you are talking about?



I'm in Springfield Township which is just southeast of Akron. Universal HD used to be called Bravo HD but was renamed a year or so ago. I believe it is owned by NBC and is currently one of the HD channels carried by DirecTV. Here is a link to their website where you can check their schedule: http://www.universalhd.com/ 

Steve


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> even the game against texas is listed as non HD



I would be surprised if that one's not an HD game. It's scheduled for 8 pm, and it's one of the most anticipated college football games of the year. In fact, SI online just rated it as THE college game not to miss this year. If that's not motivation for ABC to drive the trucks to Columbus, I don't know what is.


As far as the other Buckeyes' games go, most of them are produced regionally by ESPN+. It seems like they barely have the resources to pay an announcing team. I wouldn't expect them to be able to do HD too.


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Springfield Township which is just southeast of Akron. Universal HD used to be called Bravo HD but was renamed a year or so ago. I believe it is owned by NBC and is currently one of the HD channels carried by DirecTV. Here is a link to their website where you can check their schedule: http://www.universalhd.com/
> 
> Steve



Thanks Steve.


I see you are on DirecTV while I am on Time Warner Cable










That's why I did not understand your channel selection.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Steve.
> 
> 
> I see you are on DirecTV while I am on Time Warner Cable



No, look here:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like *Time Warner Cable* has added the Universal HD channel to their HD lineup.



It's not "universal" as in the descriptive word, it's "Universal" as in the corporation which owns it (NBC Universal).


----------



## kosar1985

does anyone have anything good to say about the vu-75xr antenna. It would help if you are from Medina


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Steve.
> 
> 
> I see you are on DirecTV while I am on Time Warner Cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I did not understand your channel selection.



Just to confirm, I'm on Time Warner Cable. I only used DirecTV as an example of someone that I knew that currently carried the channel. In my guide it shows up as UHD. The channel number on my system is 560. I went to the TWC website at: http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/ and looked at the channel lineup for Akron. The UHD channel is not listed. So hopefully it is just a matter of them not yet getting around to updating their website.

Steve


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just to confirm, I'm on Time Warner Cable. I only used DirecTV as an example of someone that I knew that currently carried the channel. In my guide it shows up as UHD. The channel number on my system is 560. I went to the TWC website at: http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/ and looked at the channel lineup for Akron. The UHD channel is not listed. So hopefully it is just a matter of them not yet getting around to updating their website.
> 
> Steve




Thanks Steve,


I will check channel 560 tonight. I am on TWC from Canton. Our numbers are a little different from Akron.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> does anyone have anything good to say about the vu-75xr antenna. It would help if you are from Medina




"Well it looks like it is a little better than Rabbit ears if that helps







"


At just over 5db gain on VHF 50 ft of old RG-6 and a couple of rusty

connectors you probably get very little gain out of the sytem. We can only

hope that its not in your attic!


look here: www.hdtvprimer.com see antenna comparisons


good luck


----------



## stuart628

Twc northeast ohio does have UNiversal HD but from everything I have been told, its just till the open is done, there is no long term contract in place, so This channel will leave us after the us open, that is why TWCNEO.com does not have it listed, but it has been up and running I think for 3-4 days


----------



## Michael P 2341

Just in case anybody cares, "The Late Show with David Letterman" is now in HD. I caught it in HD for the first time last night (Wednesday Aug. 31).


----------



## thorton22

Is there any indication when WKBN will start broadcasting in HD? The football season is starting next weekend!


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there any indication when WKBN will start broadcasting in HD? The football season is starting next weekend!




They have no antenna on the tower yet. Since they don't own the tower, it's out of their control. I don't want to speak for another station in town, but I don't think they'll have anything up by the start of football. I think they have a crew coming in this month, but you should really check with them for the full details.


----------



## jtscherne

Based on information, supposedly the only HD ABC college football games are the BCS bowl games in January.


At this point, the only definite OTA HD college football games are:


CBS SEC game of the week

NBC Notre Dame home games (announced earlier this summer).


That's it, that's the list!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would be surprised if that one's not an HD game. It's scheduled for 8 pm, and it's one of the most anticipated college football games of the year. In fact, SI online just rated it as THE college game not to miss this year. If that's not motivation for ABC to drive the trucks to Columbus, I don't know what is.
> 
> 
> As far as the other Buckeyes' games go, most of them are produced regionally by ESPN+. It seems like they barely have the resources to pay an announcing team. I wouldn't expect them to be able to do HD too.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Steve,
> 
> 
> I will check channel 560 tonight. I am on TWC from Canton. Our numbers are a little different from Akron.



I believe everything above a certain channel number is the same throughout Northeast Ohio (like, above the locals).


Oh, and Canton has local LPTVer WIVM/52 up in the 500's (SD, not HD), but that's about it.


I don't know if the channel is temporary, as another poster here says.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The last preseason Browns game appeared to be in HD on WOIO! (At least it was broadcast in 16 X 9). Even the commercials stayed in 16 X9! I wonder if e-mails from members of this board helped to sway them to at least give HD a try?


I only have a SD set with an HD PVR (Dish 921), so I could not tell you if it was true HD or just "EDTV" like FOX used to do. There were no tell-tale signs of an upconvert (seeing "dashes" on the top of the widescreen picture when viewed on a 4 X 3 screen letterboxed). Anyone else with a real HD set notice if the game was in true HD?


----------



## ajstan99

The Browns game was in stretch-o-vision. I wish the broadcasters would just leave 4:3 at 4:3 and let me decide if I want it streched and distorted to get a bigger picture.


----------



## Inundated

I missed it locally, but I doubt very seriously the Browns game was in HD. I'm surprised that they apparently stretched the upconvert, because I've never seen 19 do that with SD programming...


E-Mails from people won't convince them to do games in HD when the games have already started...for one, those decisions have to be made months in advance! (Due to equipment/truck procurement, etc.)


----------



## Michael P 2341

The little bit I saw of WOIO-DT that evening (My 921's hard drive was literally on it's deathbed during the game) it appeard that the "stretch-o-vision" was not the same stretch-o-vision I've seen elsewhere. Usually I stretch "stretch-O-vision" broadcasts to full screen. They look more natural in full screen. The game acually looked better in letterbox. Also, as I posted above, the annoying "dashes" were not there (whenever I see dashes, I immediately stretch to full screen and every time the picture is closer to normal). True HD has no dashes and neither did the game.


NOTE: The "dashes" are bits of data sent in the black bar (VBI?) of an NTSC video frame. The dashes are visible on 4 X 3 screens when in letterbox format. Most believe it's closed captioning, others believe its SMPTE time code. In any event it looks terrible in letterbox on a SD set (more like "squish-o-vision").


Examples: On my 4 X 3 SD tube WEWS local news has the dashes, WJW does not. WEWS looks better stretched to full screen 4 X 3, while WJW looks better letterboxed.


----------



## kosar1985

i got a question... do you need to ground an antenna if you are running it through a power surge protector. When i bought my TV i bought this power strip for about $150, you can plug sat and phone lines into it


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Based on information, supposedly the only HD ABC college football games are the BCS bowl games in January.
> 
> 
> At this point, the only definite OTA HD college football games are:
> 
> 
> CBS SEC game of the week
> 
> NBC Notre Dame home games (announced earlier this summer).
> 
> 
> That's it, that's the list!



Actually, ABC will do the Miami v. Florida State game in HD on 9/5. That's the only confirmed game on ABC this year expect for the Bowl games.


Just in case you guys have not seen this site here's a link....they list all sporting events in HD and is usually up to date.

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/cfb.php


----------



## Shark73

Has anyone heard if Adelphia plans to update the software on the SA 8300? I've read that the box is capable of much more than what Adelphia is providing to us....not that I'm real surprised by what they offer....I just want more!!!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i got a question... do you need to ground an antenna if you are running it through a power surge protector. When i bought my TV i bought this power strip for about $150, you can plug sat and phone lines into it



All the stuff I've read on installing antennas recommends an 8ft. copper rod for a ground fastened, by the shortest distance possible, to the mount of the antenna with grounding cable and also a separate grounding cable to the rod for the RG-6 cable(using a grd. block). It's easy if your antenna is close to where your electric is grounded.


grd. block:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...ing&PROD=GRB2S 


Good idea on the power strip. Those things do a lot for a little money(u must have the cadillac... ^_^ ). It could probably handle a full lightning strike but with a copper rod outside to absorb most of the energy, your system will be safer.


----------



## pupper

Has anyone heard anything about WKYC having signal problems. I had 70% signal last week and now I can't get a blip on the receiver. I know 3 is hard to get, but I am just wondering if anybody can shed some light.


Thanks


----------



## kosar1985

WOIO went down for me, had a 93% now it's at 63-69%


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pupper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard anything about WKYC having signal problems. I had 70% signal last week and now I can't get a blip on the receiver. I know 3 is hard to get, but I am just wondering if anybody can shed some light.
> 
> 
> Thanks



This is likely is tropo/skip, where some distant channel 2 is skipping in on top of WKYC-DT on Ch 2 (there are channel 2's in Detroit and Pittsburgh), which will increase the bit-error-rate, and may wipe it out if the distant station signal is coming in strong enough (note that DTV signal percentages indicate bit errors or signal-to-noise, rather than raw signal strength) . This happens a lot during the summer, especially on VHF frequencies. You can verify this if you have an analog tuner connected to your antenna - you'll be seeing a lot of out-of-town stations under these conditions.


----------



## ZManCartFan

There's a thread going on in Programming that is promising that the OSU/Texas game will be HD on Saturday:

Click here for thread 


It does, indeed, show on the main ABC page that Saturday night's game will be in HDTV.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is likely is tropo/skip, where some distant channel 2 is skipping in on top of WKYC-DT on Ch 2 (there are channel 2's in Detroit and Pittsburgh), which will increase the bit-error-rate, and may wipe it out if the distant station signal is coming in strong enough (note that DTV signal percentages indicate bit errors or signal-to-noise, rather than raw signal strength) . This happens a lot during the summer, especially on VHF frequencies. You can verify this if you have an analog tuner connected to your antenna - you'll be seeing a lot of out-of-town stations under these conditions.



I think this is what makes reception of WKYC-DT problematic here in Canton at times. Pittsburgh stations are received here quite often, sometimes with very strong signals and I know KDKA on channel two has to be having an effect. All this summer reception of Pittsburgh DT stations has been occurring almost nightly with WIIC-DT being the most consistent. All the analog stations there are received quite often with varying strength also. Others seen quite often include stations in

Toledo, Dayton, Columbus, Erie, Johnstown, Morgantown etc., so there's lots of skip around that might complicate local reception, especially DT.


----------



## kosar1985

"Lost" was supposed to be in HD tonight and it wasn't. Does anyone know why, and if I could've called and had them switch it to HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Lost" was supposed to be in HD tonight and it wasn't. Does anyone know why, and if I could've called and had them switch it to HD.



Don't know why, but any time a local TV station doesn't flip the right switch (when you're reasonably sure the show should be in HD), call their newsroom...which is answered 24 hours. WEWS/5's newsroom number is 216-431-3700.


These folks are sometimes quite busy working on, well, newscasts...so be quick and polite and ask to be transferred to engineering, if possible. If not, quickly tell them the problem and ask them to notify engineering. Don't rant and rave at them! They're doing you a favor.


BTW, I'd check the HDTV Programming boards here before I call the station, to make sure it's not a national problem.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Lost" was supposed to be in HD tonight and it wasn't. Does anyone know why, and if I could've called and had them switch it to HD.



I don't know about any one else, but here in N. Olmsted on Adelphia there has been no ABCHD for 2 evenings now. Did not check OTA but hope it is up before tonights football game.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know about any one else, but here in N. Olmsted on Adelphia there has been no ABCHD for 2 evenings now. Did not check OTA but hope it is up before tonights football game.



I just checked, WEWS-DT is coming in fine here via Adelphia. I'm in Bainbridge.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just checked, WEWS-DT is coming in fine here via Adelphia. I'm in Bainbridge.



Let me clarify. I am getting WEWS-DT. What I have not got the last 2 nights is the HD feed for the primetime shows, George Lopez, Rodney, Boston Public, Lost etc. What I am getting is the channel 705 stretchovision upconvert for these shows. No HD.


----------



## frank10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's a thread going on in Programming that is promising that the OSU/Texas game will be HD on Saturday:
> 
> Click here for thread
> 
> 
> It does, indeed, show on the main ABC page that Saturday night's game will be in HDTV.



I read through that thread and it appears that the game will NOT be broadcast in HDTV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let me clarify. I am getting WEWS-DT. What I have not got the last 2 nights is the HD feed for the primetime shows, George Lopez, Rodney, Boston Public, Lost etc. What I am getting is the channel 705 stretchovision upconvert for these shows. No HD.



OK, I gotcha. Then if they are showing it in lovely stretch o vision then it's probably either nobody threw the switch, or, once again, they are waiting for a part to be delivered.


Apparently WEWS gets it shipments from the Pony Express.


----------



## Gary16

Unfortunately, due to problems with the ABC digital receiver at the station, WEWS has been unable to broadcast any ABC HD programming in HD for the past two nights. Although replacement equipment is due in Friday morning, it means that tonight's NFL game will also not be in HD.


----------



## frank10

disappointing!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think this is what makes reception of WKYC-DT problematic here in Canton at times. Pittsburgh stations are received here quite often, sometimes with very strong signals and I know KDKA on channel two has to be having an effect. All this summer reception of Pittsburgh DT stations has been occurring almost nightly with WIIC-DT being the most consistent. All the analog stations there are received quite often with varying strength also. Others seen quite often include stations in
> 
> Toledo, Dayton, Columbus, Erie, Johnstown, Morgantown etc., so there's lots of skip around that might complicate local reception, especially DT.



FYI: WIIC-DT does not exist. What you are probably getting is WPXI-DT (11.1, rf 48). Pittsburg's NBC used to be WIIC years ago. Since that time a low-power station has snagged the classic cal letters, but they are not "DT" they are WIIC-LP. I got WPXI-DT when I lived in Seven Hills for a short time. I even have a recording of a news break and a snip of their "Weather Plus" on 11.2


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, due to problems with the ABC digital receiver at the station, WEWS has been unable to broadcast any ABC HD programming in HD for the past two nights. Although replacement equipment is due in Friday morning, it means that tonight's NFL game will also not be in HD.



There's this new thing called overnight shipping!







Yes! Everyone uses it. HD football is IMPORTANT.


Anybody got the number for FED EX?


----------



## Phoenix2088

Every month something seems to breaks at WEWS.


----------



## stuart628

hey does anyone know about youngstown cbs? I get their analog station (kinda crappy like) but their digital is what I am after as it has (sorry in advance) steelers football on it, does anyone know when they go live?


----------



## kosar1985

for steelers fans,

no time soon


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey does anyone know about youngstown cbs? I get their analog station (kinda crappy like) but their digital is what I am after as it has (sorry in advance) steelers football on it, does anyone know when they go live?



I asked the same thing to "TV21Cheif" several pages back. Here is the post:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Michael P 2341
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up Robert.
> 
> 
> Do you know what's up with WKBN? When will they put up their DT signal? I've seen some blips on my signal meter for ch 41, however that could be Detroit's WXYZ and not WKBN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WKBN is not on the air yet. They've had a lot of problems with getting a construction permit and getting the people that own their towers to make modifications so they can mount equipment.
> 
> 
> It looks like I won't have a replacement upconverter until beginning of next week now. The good news is it's the latest and greatest so it should improve our SD upconverted PQ.
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Robert J. Flis
> 
> Chief Engineer
> 
> WFMJ-DT 20/WFMJ-TV 21/WBCB
> 
> Youngstown, OH


----------



## stuart628

lol I figured, I use to be a Browns fan, and if they every bring back BROWNS football I have no problem watching them, but until my smash mouth football comes back, and they get rid of this crap west coast style football, I have no interest in them, if they had a bernie style quarterback, well that would make my year, until then I watch the team that has no problem being a smash mouth team nad that is the steelers. enjoy the game tonight, even though its not going to be in HD


----------



## Q of BanditZ

Just read the title of this thread. That should underscore for you how senseless this truly is and stick in your craw a little bit.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=578509 


A trashy game like that gets HD tonight but we can't see two top five teams go at it in HD on ABC, ESPN, or ANYWHERE else come Saturday night?


Ridiculous. Senseless.


----------



## jdswimm

*from what I heard WKBN's owner hasn't worked any plans to start HD. Piedmont TV out of NC owns WKBN and their Low Power FOX WYFX. If you have Time Warner Cable they carried WOIO HD on channel 541 in Warren and Youngstown. IF you live in western PA or Columbiana County OH, you will get KDKA HD on 502. I think it will be long time before WKBN TV gets their HD or digital signal running.


I spoke with the GM at WFMJ. He said WFMJ will not be bringing Weather Plus to 21-3. Because they don not have enough bandwidth at this time.


I have moved to New Philadelphia OH. Adelphia is the cable here. Currently, the only local broadcast HD is WKYC and WEWS. On the basic cable service we get WCMH NBC 4 Columbus, and I don't know why.Maybe because of the OSU games?We also get WTOV NBC 9 out of Steubenville OH. Also we get WTRF CBS 7 out of Wheeling WV . I looked at the FCC website and WCMH is not significantly viewed in Tuscarawas County OH.. WTOV and WTRF are....*


----------



## stuart628

the game is on and IN beautiful hd! there transmitter must not be broken!!! I am loving it!


----------



## Q of BanditZ

HD on ABC sure looks nice for MNF doesn't it? Too bad we won't be seeing this on Saturday for a HUGE college football game between two top five teams.


----------



## Gary16

Miracles do happen. The broken/intermittent ABC HD receiver decided it wanted to work last night so the NFL game was, in fact, transmitted in HD on WEWS.


----------



## Tom in OH

thx Gary! good work


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI: WIIC-DT does not exist. What you are probably getting is WPXI-DT (11.1, rf 48). Pittsburg's NBC used to be WIIC years ago. Since that time a low-power station has snagged the classic cal letters, but they are not "DT" they are WIIC-LP. I got WPXI-DT when I lived in Seven Hills for a short time. I even have a recording of a news break and a snip of their "Weather Plus" on 11.2



You're correct...sorry, I think my brain has been in a time-warp lately, going back to when I watched WIIC-TV as a teenager in Belmont county







...I meant WPXI-DT. I'm aware of WIIC-LP but have never seen it. WPXI-DT is received here almost nightly and I've been curious as to why this is the case when at the same time the other Pittsburgh DT stations are at a level too low to lock in on my LG receiver.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're correct...sorry, I think my brain has been in a time-warp lately, going back to when I watched WIIC-TV as a teenager in Belmont county
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I meant WPXI-DT. I'm aware of WIIC-LP but have never seen it. WPXI-DT is received here almost nightly and I've been curious as to why this is the case when at the same time the other Pittsburgh DT stations are at a level too low to lock in on my LG receiver.



I just snagged WPXI again last night (first [email protected] my new home). I also snagged some PSIP data from a digital ch 38. It's either WQED or WOSU. The lock did not stay on long enough to grab the call letters, however it did put 4 subchannels into my EPG (38.1, 38.2, 38.3, 38.4) Seeing how both DT 38's are PBS may explain the abundance of subchannels.


As a kid I traveled through Western PA and remember seeing a sign along US 422 in Kittanning, PA "A WIIC Community". The "II" in that call might have been inspired by the channel number "11" (this was long before low-power TV calls with the channel number imbedded). Their current call WPXI makes more sense: "P"ittsburg's "XI" roman numerals for 11.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdswimm* /forum/post/0
> 
> *from what I heard WKBN's owner hasn't worked any plans to start HD. Piedmont TV out of NC owns WKBN and their Low Power FOX WYFX. If you have Time Warner Cable they carried WOIO HD on channel 541 in Warren and Youngstown. IF you live in western PA or Columbiana County OH, you will get KDKA HD on 502. I think it will be long time before WKBN TV gets their HD or digital signal running.
> 
> 
> I spoke with the GM at WFMJ. He said WFMJ will not be bringing Weather Plus to 21-3. Because they don not have enough bandwidth at this time.
> 
> 
> I have moved to New Philadelphia OH. Adelphia is the cable here. Currently, the only local broadcast HD is WKYC and WEWS. On the basic cable service we get WCMH NBC 4 Columbus, and I don't know why.Maybe because of the OSU games?We also get WTOV NBC 9 out of Steubenville OH. Also we get WTRF CBS 7 out of Wheeling WV . I looked at the FCC website and WCMH is not significantly viewed in Tuscarawas County OH.. WTOV and WTRF are....*



It's not the FCC that determines significantly viewed status. Neilson Reserch determines the DMA's based on their surveys. The FCC uses Neilson's data, so the FCC's website is not up-to-date. BTW: September is the month when DMA's get "tweaked". Several years ago that tweaking took Lawrence County, PA out of the Youngstown DMA and into the Pittsburgh DMA.







As close as New Castle is to Yongstown it's hard to believe that more people there are watching Pittsburgh. Thanks to cable such swings are possible. If most viewers had to use OTA, Youngstown would have won over Pittsburgh.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I spoke with the GM at WFMJ. He said WFMJ will not be bringing Weather Plus to 21-3. Because they don not have enough bandwidth at this time.



It's just as well, WBCB is a better use of the bandwidth. It appears that they are giving a decent amount of bandwidth to WBCB, I don't see the nasty pixilation that insufficient bandwidth allocation causes. I wish WUAB would give "The Tube" more bandwidth. Right now they give it so little that the artifacts make the picture almost unwatchable on scenes with rapid movement.


BTW: I find it interesting that WFMJ's GM would make a statement that they don't have enough bandwidth "at this time". Hello... The bandwidth is fixed for every digital station, it will never increase. The only way for WFMJ to get the bandwidth for Weather Plus without dropping WBCB's bandwidth would be to not carry any HD programming from NBC. We don't want them to ever consider that! We are lucky that they are able to get WBCB out at the same time WFMJ has HD programming.


As for WKBN, when they do go digital, I hope they piggyback WYFX on a subchannel in the same way that WFMJ does WBCB.


----------



## jdswimm

*thanks for the info on sig viewed. Tusc County is under the Cleveland DMA. I guess I will have to wait and see what Nelison comes up with. Even Adelphia doesn't know why they carry WCMH Columbus.


Time Warner carries the Tube on 546, the picture on there doesn't look to bad. I spoke with Tech at WNWO in Toldeo. They carry Weather Plus on 24-3, and The Tube on 24-2. They have about 15 Mpgs. Most goes to HD of course. 2 mpgs for Wx Plus and The Tube. You are right about WFMJ northeast ohio can't afford to loose another NBC HD. WKYC is always having those problems with Channel 2. TWCable has always had a hard time to pick up KDKA CH 2, because of KYC's digital effecting the signal. I think WKBN will carry WYFX as subchannel. The only problem with that would be no FOX HD in Y-Town. Or course you can get WJW or WPGH.*


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just snagged WPXI again last night (first [email protected] my new home). I also snagged some PSIP data from a digital ch 38. It's either WQED or WOSU. The lock did not stay on long enough to grab the call letters, however it did put 4 subchannels into my EPG (38.1, 38.2, 38.3, 38.4) Seeing how both DT 38's are PBS may explain the abundance of subchannels.
> 
> 
> As a kid I traveled through Western PA and remember seeing a sign along US 422 in Kittanning, PA "A WIIC Community". The "II" in that call might have been inspired by the channel number "11" (this was long before low-power TV calls with the channel number imbedded). Their current call WPXI makes more sense: "P"ittsburg's "XI" roman numerals for 11.




WQED is 38 out of Pittsburgh.


----------



## thorton22

To add to the headaches of waiting for WKBN to go HD, I tuned into the analog signal Sunday about 1PM and found something real disturbing........the Cleveland Browns! I thought WKBN carried the Steelers as their local game. I've emailed people at WKBN at least 4 times over the last month with questions but have yet to get a response. They did carry the Steeler preseason games, though. Does anyone get a CBS station outside of KDKA in Pittsburgh that shows the Steelers as the local game? I am from the Canton area.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To add to the headaches of waiting for WKBN to go HD, I tuned into the analog signal Sunday about 1PM and found something real disturbing........the Cleveland Browns! I thought WKBN carried the Steelers as their local game. I've emailed people at WKBN at least 4 times over the last month with questions but have yet to get a response. They did carry the Steeler preseason games, though. Does anyone get a CBS station outside of KDKA in Pittsburgh that shows the Steelers as the local game? I am from the Canton area.



I worked at that station for 20 years. Unless the Browns & Steelers play in different time slots, WKBN will always have the Browns. Even though the viewership in Y-town is a 50/50 mix as far as football goes, we are considered a Cleveland city for sports. The preseason games are broadcast on an independent basis. One of the local stations (KDKA in this case) will acquire the rights for the preseason games from the NFL and offer it to other stations out of the market, like WKBN.


----------



## paule123

Are there any Cleveland Wide Open West customers with an SA8300HD ?

I've got the SA8000HD and I want to swap it out for an 8300 since I hear that has better PQ on the analog channels (I'll do anything to improve WOIO's horrible picture on the non-HD Browns games)


I called WOW customer service, they say they are still only supplying the SA8000HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are there any Cleveland Wide Open West customers with an SA8300HD ?
> 
> I've got the SA8000HD and I want to swap it out for an 8300 since I hear that has better PQ on the analog channels (I'll do anything to improve WOIO's horrible picture on the non-HD Browns games)
> 
> 
> I called WOW customer service, they say they are still only supplying the SA8000HD.




If that's all they have, then that's it. But if it makes you feel any better, I never saw a great deal of pq difference of analog between the 8000 and 8300. Now when Adelphia may their local stations available in digital, then you could see the difference


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To add to the headaches of waiting for WKBN to go HD, I tuned into the analog signal Sunday about 1PM and found something real disturbing........the Cleveland Browns!



I'm a Browns fan, and I found it disturbing, too.










FWIW, WKBN will carry the Steelers if the Browns aren't on, and if for some reason, they stop selling out Cleveland Browns Stadium. Of course, that hasn't happened since the team came back in 1999.


----------



## flatiron

Does anyone know whats up with WOIO? has been stretchovision upconvert all evening - no HD on NCIS or Letterman?


----------



## ZManCartFan

It's been a while since this has been discussed on here (I think during the Olympics), and besides - I finally got rid of my old Pro Logic receiver and moved up to a DD / DTS one.


What's the current status of any locals broadcasting Dolby Digital audio? It looks like Fox 8 is the only one currently offering anything, but it also looks like it's limited to network-feed material. Are any of their shows actually recorded in 5.1?


And what about any of the others? Anybody know of any plans to upgrade to 5.1 audio?


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's been a while since this has been discussed on here (I think during the Olympics), and besides - I finally got rid of my old Pro Logic receiver and moved up to a DD / DTS one.
> 
> 
> What's the current status of any locals broadcasting Dolby Digital audio? It looks like Fox 8 is the only one currently offering anything, but it also looks like it's limited to network-feed material. Are any of their shows actually recorded in 5.1?
> 
> 
> And what about any of the others? Anybody know of any plans to upgrade to 5.1 audio?



CH 3 and CH 8 pass network DD 5.1. CH 5 and 19 don't. Fox football, as well as many network shows, broadcast in 5.1


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CH 5 and 19 don't.



Drives me nuts. How can you send out Hi Def video without Hi Def audio. AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!


----------



## Ben Music

To all Cleveland Comcast users w/Mot 6412 HD boxes:


Has anyone receieved in the last few days an upgrade to the IGuide? It is a much improved version with more features and information on which movies and shows are being shown in HD. I was told that it has already been sent out to all Comcast HD boxes, but I have yet to see any change on my box.


Let me know if anybody has seen this upgrade yet.


Thanks,

Ben Music


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CH 3 and CH 8 pass network DD 5.1. CH 5 and 19 don't. Fox football, as well as many network shows, broadcast in 5.1



I noticed that the football game on Sunday was in 5.1 on Fox. Sounded pretty good, as a matter of fact.


But every time I've flipped by CH 3, the broadcast has not been in 5.1. At best it's DD 2.0.


Are there any guides anywhere that let us know what shows are broadcast in 5.1?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that the football game on Sunday was in 5.1 on Fox. Sounded pretty good, as a matter of fact.
> 
> 
> But every time I've flipped by CH 3, the broadcast has not been in 5.1. At best it's DD 2.0.
> 
> 
> Are there any guides anywhere that let us know what shows are broadcast in 5.1?



To the best of my knowledge all FOX HD shows, including the formentioned football game are broadcast in Dolby 5.1. Their Saturday baseball which is not in HD is also in 5.1.


Same thing with NBC. But they don't have football or baseball.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually NBC has HD Notre Dame football, so it will be interesting to see if we get 5.1 for the first game....


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Drives me nuts. How can you send out Hi Def video without Hi Def audio. AAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!



My understanding is that NBC, ABC, CBS, and UPN (and probably the WB) send a high-bitrate signal (>>19.2MB/sec) to their affiliates, which must be re-encoded to the 19.2 MB/sec (or less if the station multicasts) ATSC signal transmitted. Because of this re-encoding, in order to transmit the audio in 5.1, the station must purchase an (expensive) encoder from Dolby. Locally, only WKYC has done this.


FOX, on the other hand, uses the splicer technology, so the signal sent to their affiliates is already ATSC format and does not require any re-encoding. Thus all FOX HD stations are 5.1, I believe.


BTW, still no HD on WOIO. I haven't seen any HD there for at least 2 days.


----------



## akkou

I've just come to cleveland from Korea


And I am curious about how I can enjoy HDTV here.


Do you think that I can have a good HDTV with only antenna here?


Is signal good here?


Or should I contact to direct TV or Adelphia? What choice is cheap for HDTV?


I live in Fairhill, Shaker Heights (near Case Univ.)


Please repy to me


----------



## rlb

Akkou,


With an antenna, you can get all the network programs that are broadcast in HDTV. That is a majority of primetime (7:00-11:00 PM) shows on ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, and also some on WB.


I use both an antenna and Direct TV. DirectTV provides HBO, Showtime, ESPN, and 3 or four other HD dedicated/specialty channels (e.g. Discovery).


Cable is probably the easiest alternative. It provides the networks and HBO, Showtime, ESPN and small assortment of specialty HD channels.


Good luck. Hope you enjoy Cleveland and the available HD.


----------



## rlb

Akkou,


Forgot your question regarding price. Antenna is obviously free after installation. Cable will probably run $80-$100 per month depending upon how many premium channels you get. Direct TV is also around $80-$100 per month; but you must purchase your receiver; while cable allows you to "rent" the receiver for around $5.00 per month.


----------



## akkou




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Akkou,
> 
> 
> Forgot your question regarding price. Antenna is obviously free after installation. Cable will probably run $80-$100 per month depending upon how many premium channels you get. Direct TV is also around $80-$100 per month; but you must purchase your receiver; while cable allows you to "rent" the receiver for around $5.00 per month.




Thanks for your reply


I guess I can test the signal after buying Zennith antenna.


I just don't know where the broadcasting tower of Cleveland is and


whether the signal is good in Shaker Heights.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Akkou,
> 
> 
> Forgot your question regarding price. Antenna is obviously free after installation.



If your display unit does not have an ATSC(HiDef) tuner built in(most have only an analog NTSC(not HiDef) tuner) then you would also need to buy a separate ATSC tuner for $250-$350 if you do not go with cable or DirecTV. If you are thinking about DirecTV, I suggest you wait until at least November when they are supposed to come out with their new MPEG4 capable receivers. This will eventually allow you to get the HD local channels over the dish instead of an antenna and have access to many more national HD channels(Cinemax HD, Starz HD, etc.) that they don't carry now. To get more information on selecting an antenna and what direction to point it, check out this website: http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx 


Steve


----------



## Michael P 2341

akkou,


Welcome to Cleveland!


Chech out this thread: http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/s...threadid=45307 

Close out - only $89.00.


As far as where to aim your antenna from Fairhill, the transmitters are Southwest of Cleveland in the suburb of Parma. You will need an antenna that picks up both VHF & UHF. The digital channels currently on the air are: 2, 10, 15, 26 (low power, may be tough to pick up on the east side), 28, 31, and 34. There are also 2 from the Akron/canton area: 39 and 50. 26 & 50 are PBS, both have subchannels. the main feed is PBS HD which is a different schedule than what the analog station carries.


Also the WB is not yet on the air in digital in Cleveland. You will have to watch analog ch 55.


----------



## akkou




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You will need an antenna that picks up both VHF & UHF. The digital channels currently on the air are: 2, 10, 15, 26 (low power, may be tough to pick up on the east side), 28, 31, and 34. There are also 2 from the Akron/canton area: 39 and 50. 26 & 50 are PBS, both have subchannels. the main feed is PBS HD which is a different schedule than what the analog station carries.
> 
> 
> Also the WB is not yet on the air in digital in Cleveland. You will have to watch analog ch 55.



Thanks, guys !! You are really helping me.


one more question is...


Are analog NBC, CBS (Actually, I don't even know how do you say these normal chanels. "network?") UHF or VHF?

If UHF, I think I can buy HDTV/UHF antenna.


----------



## SteveC

The Antennaweb site I mentioned lists all the channel numbers(analog and digital) for our area. No reason to list them all here. Channel 2-13 is VHF, 14 and up is UHF.


----------



## Michael P 2341

What gets confusing is the analog channel numbers have been around for many years, so when you watch a digital channel they still use the ananlog channel number in their i.d.'s. After the transition most of these channels should go back to the original frequencies, just now in digital.


akkou, Since you are new to the area I don't mind providing the list:


NBC is WKYC, analog 3, digital 2

ABC is WEWS, analog 5, digital 15

FOX is WJW, analog 8, digital 31

CBS is WOIO, analog 19, digital 10

PBS is WVIZ, analog 25, digital 26 (note that analog 25's programs differ for anything on 26 at this time)

UPN is WUAB, analog 43, digital 28 (has a subchannel called "the Tube" all music videos)

Univision (Spanish network) is WQHS, analog 61, digital 34


There are a few more stations considered local to Cleveland, but transmitted inthe Akron/Canton area:

TBN (Christian) is analog 17 (in Canton - not receivable in Cleveland) digital 39 (does come in well, at least here in Parma) There are 4 subchannels, no HD programming

PBS WEAO, analog 49, digital 50 (note this station does carry it's analog program on a subchannel while the main feed is PBS HD identical to WVIZ).


----------



## Mitch1300

I live in Kingwood TX and my antenna used to get all local channels but now I only seem to get UPN and the channels above 49. I noticed that I get all the channels with a 204 compass and non of the 203's. Is it possible something moved my antenna slightly and I need to move it back?? This is what the antenna website said about my address.

* red - uhf KHOU-DT 11.1 CBS HOUSTON TX 203° 38.5 31

* red - uhf KHWB-DT 39.1 WB HOUSTON TX 203° 38.0 38

* red - uhf KETH-DT 24 TBN HOUSTON TX 204° 38.7 24

* red - uhf KTRK-DT 13.1 ABC HOUSTON TX 203° 37.5 32

* red - uhf KPRC-DT 2.1 NBC HOUSTON TX 203° 38.0 35

* red - vhf KPXB-DT 49.1 PAX CONROE TX 204° 38.2 5

* red - uhf KRIV-DT 26.1 FOX HOUSTON TX 203° 37.5 27

* red - uhf KTXH-DT 20.1 UPN HOUSTON TX 204° 38.7 19

* red - uhf KAZH-DT 57.1 AZA BAYTOWN TX 204° 38.2 41

* red - uhf KXLN-DT 45.1 UNI ROSENBERG TX 204° 38.7 46

* red - uhf KZJL-DT 44 SAH HOUSTON TX TBD 203° 38.8 44

* blue - vhf KUHT-DT 8.1 PBS HOUSTON TX 203° 37.5 9


Thanks for any help you guys can offer me.


----------



## JoeySR

My son lives in Lakewood and he has installed the Direct TV HD local antenna recently and he gets 3,5 and 8 real good. However 19 is very marginal. Is thier signal on low power? If so when does the FCC say they have to be at full power. According to the website he is only 8.5 miles from their transmission tower so I can't figure why he can't get it better. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks, JoeySR


----------



## pizza

I can't believe it, after a year of struggling to get the local over-the-air hd channels I've finally found solid success. I've tried several different antennas and found a cumbersome solution a few months back combining a terk with a radio shack, switching between the two because each got channels the other couldn't. This week the wife and I rearranged the front room and when I placed the radio shack (which is the better antenna from my experience) in a new spot, it picked everything up.







It's not 100% perfect, I'll have to tweak it occassionally (usually for 19 or 3) but the stations will come in. Right now I can get 3, 5, 8, 15, 19, 25 (I live down the road from WVIZ and it looks great), 26, 28, 43 (and their music channel) and 61. Any other channels I should be looking for?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pizza* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't believe it, after a year of struggling to get the local over-the-air hd channels I've finally found solid success. I've tried several different antennas and found a cumbersome solution a few months back combining a terk with a radio shack, switching between the two because each got channels the other couldn't. This week the wife and I rearranged the front room and when I placed the radio shack (which is the better antenna from my experience) in a new spot, it picked everything up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not 100% perfect, I'll have to tweak it occassionally (usually for 19 or 3) but the stations will come in. Right now I can get 3, 5, 8, 15, 19, 25 (I live down the road from WVIZ and it looks great), 26, 28, 43 (and their music channel) and 61. Any other channels I should be looking for?



Try 50 (WEAO-DT) which is channel 49. The main feed is identical to WVIZ's 25-1, however there is one subchannel 50-2 that is the digital version of ch 49 (i.e. the analog PBS feed digitized). WVIZ is not offering a digital subchannel of the analog PBS feed at this time, so ch 50 may me the way to go especialy for those PBS programs not in HD (like the BBC World news, Nightly Business Report etc.).


Another one to try is 39. That one has 4 subchannels, all SD, from Trinity Broadcasting Network.


Both 39 & 50 are in Akron.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mitch1300* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Kingwood TX and my antenna used to get all local channels but now I only seem to get UPN and the channels above 49. I noticed that I get all the channels with a 204 compass and non of the 203's. Is it possible something moved my antenna slightly and I need to move it back?? This is what the antenna website said about my address.
> 
> * red - uhf KHOU-DT 11.1 CBS HOUSTON TX 203° 38.5 31
> 
> * red - uhf KHWB-DT 39.1 WB HOUSTON TX 203° 38.0 38
> 
> * red - uhf KETH-DT 24 TBN HOUSTON TX 204° 38.7 24
> 
> * red - uhf KTRK-DT 13.1 ABC HOUSTON TX 203° 37.5 32
> 
> * red - uhf KPRC-DT 2.1 NBC HOUSTON TX 203° 38.0 35
> 
> * red - vhf KPXB-DT 49.1 PAX CONROE TX 204° 38.2 5
> 
> * red - uhf KRIV-DT 26.1 FOX HOUSTON TX 203° 37.5 27
> 
> * red - uhf KTXH-DT 20.1 UPN HOUSTON TX 204° 38.7 19
> 
> * red - uhf KAZH-DT 57.1 AZA BAYTOWN TX 204° 38.2 41
> 
> * red - uhf KXLN-DT 45.1 UNI ROSENBERG TX 204° 38.7 46
> 
> * red - uhf KZJL-DT 44 SAH HOUSTON TX TBD 203° 38.8 44
> 
> * blue - vhf KUHT-DT 8.1 PBS HOUSTON TX 203° 37.5 9
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help you guys can offer me.



Hi Mitch - this thread is for the Cleveland Ohio locals. There may be one for Houston TX somewhere else on this site.


In general, a 1 degree difference should not be a make-or-break situation in receiving a digital signal. It appears to me that all the stations you no longer can receice may be transmitting off the same tower. That tower may be having a problem.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My son lives in Lakewood and he has installed the Direct TV HD local antenna recently and he gets 3,5 and 8 real good. However 19 is very marginal. Is thier signal on low power? If so when does the FCC say they have to be at full power. According to the website he is only 8.5 miles from their transmission tower so I can't figure why he can't get it better. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks, JoeySR



19's digital signal is on VHF channel 10 - a poor choice on the part of whoever made the channel assignments. There is an analog chanel 10 in London Ontario that used to come booming in every summer. If you live anywhere near the lake that analog signal could be causing interferennce. If you live in the southwestern end of the Cleveland DMA (Mansfield, Ashland etc.) then there is an analog ch 10 in Columbus that may be causing interference.


Dittos for WKYC-DT on ch 2. There is no room on the VHF band around Cleveland yet two digital transition signals were placed there. So on top of having to get a broadband antenna (VHF/UHF combination) there are analog stations operating just outside the Cleveland DMA on those channels (ch 2 in both Detroit and Pittsburgh).


If you are getting ch 3 o.k. you should also be getting 19. 3 is on the lowest VHF channel and is one of the lowest power of all the digital transmitters in Cleveland (not counting WVIZ 25 which is running a temporary transmitter from their studio on BrookPark Rd. at 1 kw). The direction for both are the same (I can see the towers out my back window).


----------



## stuart628

anyone else getting a green grid overlay every 2-3 secods on cbs, and in general really really bad picture quality? or is it just my 811 acting up again, this is really really really bad and annoying! let me know before I go take away and add cbs again


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone else getting a green grid overlay every 2-3 secods on cbs, and in general really really bad picture quality? or is it just my 811 acting up again, this is really really really bad and annoying! let me know before I go take away and add cbs again



Yes, seeing the same on WOIO-DT OTA (Fusion HD card): green overlay plus the edges of the picure jumping back and forth on screen. It's on the local commericals as well as the ESPN-Plus feed. The analog feed is fine.


Also, WEWS-DT appears to be off the air.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, seeing the same on WOIO-DT OTA (Fusion HD card): green overlay plus the edges of the picure jumping back and forth on screen. It's on the local commericals as well as the ESPN-Plus feed. The analog feed is fine.
> 
> 
> Also, WEWS-DT appears to be off the air.



Same here in Medina. Although even with the bad picture, it is kind of fun watching Michigan beat up an ostrich or llama or something.


Oh yeah, an EMU. That's it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone else getting a green grid overlay every 2-3 secods on cbs, and in general really really bad picture quality? or is it just my 811 acting up again, this is really really really bad and annoying! let me know before I go take away and add cbs again



I have had problems with WOIO OTA ever since I got my 921. I havn't seen the "green grid overlay" for quite some time. It used to happen more often late last year. My constant problem with WOIO has been "chroma pulsation". Anything with red pulses. With a 921 I found a fix (unfotunately this won't help with an 811 - it's a PVR trick). I delay WOIO by 3 seconds, watching the delayed playback strips the crud out of WOIO's picture. Suppopsedly the chroma pulsation only affects the SD outputs. Since I don't have an HD set yet I can't confirm or deny that fact. I frequent DBS Talk where there is both an 921 and 811 support forum. Someone in Detroit had the same problem with WDIV and the delay trick worked. That station is NBC, not CBS so any PQ issues are with the local broadcster, not the network,


----------



## stuart628

cbs problem fixed for me right now, dont know if it will last, must be something on their end as my setup has not been touched, also wews is on for me, its 4:50 right now, so I dont know if it was off earlier, but it is up at 92% here in mogadore! enjoy


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

hopefully CBS doesn't do anything stupid and screw up the Browns game today.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hopefully CBS doesn't do anything stupid and screw up the Browns game today.




I just checked, it is in HD. I wouldn't worry so much about CBS as I would the Browns themselves.










Off topic guys, but I don't understand the mad passion towards the Browns. You've got the Tribe in a pennant race but nobody in the area seems to care.


Not being a native of this area, I'm just a bit confused.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Off topic guys, but I don't understand the mad passion towards the Browns. You've got the Tribe in a pennant race but nobody in the area seems to care.



I tend to agree. But since it's a foregone conclusion that we won't see the Indians in HD until after the regular season (except for maybe a one-off ESPN game), there's not much reason to discuss it here.


Being from Columbus, though, I just wish I could get the Blue Jackets in HD! I had the whole evening scheduled two years ago when HDNet had 'em on. But then those darn blackout rules kicked in. ARRGGHH!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You've got the Tribe in a pennant race but nobody in the area seems to care.



Not even Fox seems to care - the Tribe game today is not going to be televised on FSN ! My theory is the greedy bastards at Fox decided to make the NFL the priority today. Ridiculous.


----------



## paule123

I'm in Cleveland and we have a 1pm Indians game today, normally shown on FSN Ohio. But today the game is not going to be televised. Is this Fox's lame attempt to push more viewers to watch the Fox NFL game at 1pm?


BTW, the Browns game doesn't start until 4pm and it's on CBS, so the Browns wouldn't be losing any local viewers to the Tribe game...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Cleveland and we have a 1pm Indians game today, normally shown on FSN Ohio. But today the game is not going to be televised. Is this Fox's lame attempt to push more viewers to watch the Fox NFL game at 1pm?
> 
> 
> BTW, the Browns game doesn't start until 4pm and it's on CBS, so the Browns wouldn't be losing any local viewers to the Tribe game...



Well, they don't want you to miss the Vikings and Bengals game! How ungrateful can you be that you would prefer to watch your home Baseball team that's in a middle of a pennant race.


You just don't understand Fox's priorities!


----------



## Inundated

Interesting now: WOIO-DT just switched from a badly upconverted SD feed of NE/CAR to the HD feed of the same game, at 4:15, assuming, I guess, the Browns game would be there.


But CBS can't run those three games at the same time, so the feed has been NE/CAR on WOIO-DT, now in HD, while analog 19 is with the Browns!


The NE/CAR game just ended, and they're running spots on WOIO-DT (!!!!). I guess if they want HD on that game, they have to wait until CBS "joins it". But when CBS does, it'll be there.


IMHO, they should have upconverted the SD feed (as bad as it looks) until the HD feed had the Browns, but I just flipped back to analog 4 for the game.


----------



## Inundated

WOIO-DT is now with the HD feed of Browns/Packers.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, they don't want you to miss the Vikings and Bengals game! How ungrateful can you be that you would prefer to watch your home Baseball team that's in a middle of a pennant race.
> 
> 
> You just don't understand Fox's priorities!



I generally agree, by the way...I can't believe FSN didn't run today's game. It would have been a great one, because the Indians won 11 to 0! FSN does not run all Indians games...they do like 150 out of the 162.


But this IS a Browns Town...no matter how bad they currently are this year. (As I write this, GB has just burned them for a TD pass.)


----------



## paule123

I was just about to say what the f*** is going on here. I missed the first 5 minutes of the game because I had the HDTV tuned to WOIO-DT and the Pats game was on. Idiots.


Edit: But not to worry - next year CBS will have all the games in HD so we don't have these sorts of problems. But then again Les Moonbeam will be multicasting 5 subchannels so the picture will suck!


----------



## ted_b

Well, it's my seventh year of watching NFL in HD on my system and this picture is up there with the best of them, IMO. The yellow flags are soooo bright and vibrant! (What a sloppy game).


Ted


----------



## hookbill

FWIW, I turned on the game at 4:30 and it was in glorious HD. And as of right now the Browns are winning and driving. Refs blew a fumble call, so maybe they'll be lucky again. Whoops, check that, they just hit a field goal.


----------



## Inundated

Browns win!


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Browns win!



Actually, pretty impressive. Good clock mgmt, they got some decent breaks, great play calling in the second half, kept the penalties to something resonable (after the first period), and they didn't panic late...in the house that Vince built. Great win, even though the Pack ain't what they used to be...they're still a quality NFl team.


CBS did a nice job in HD again. Aside from the pre-multicasting and pre-bandwidth limited days of early MNF HD (the best, IMO) this had very good pq.


----------



## Michael P 2341

First they mess up the beginning of the Browns game on the HD feed, then when the game was over we were treated to ~45 minutes of color bars insted of the 60 Minutes updated interview with Ricky Williams.


The color bars were labeled: "BOC-NY HD TEST BARS"


I can't believe it took WOIO's staff nearly 45 minutes to catch this error. They must think nobody is watching their HD feed (well it's true, nobody in the WOIO control room is watching







)


I wish they had a hot line that viewers could call to alert the staff. If I has that number I would have called at 4:15 when theyhad the wrong game on the HD feed.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Don't blame FOX for not carrying the game today. The Indians TV schedule was made out before the start of the season. They had no way of knowing that the Indians would be a contender or what impact baseball would have on Football games on at the same time.


By contract FSN Ohio carrys a specific number of games, 140 out of 161. I wish they would pass on carrying the same game that ESPN carrys on Wednesdays (and lift the local balckout). That would allow more games on TV overall.


----------



## Inundated

That's not the first time I've seen WOIO not switch back OUT of the HD feed. I'm assuming that's because the HD/digital feed for CBS' prime time programming is somewhere else, on another transponder than the NFL stuff. Oops!


And as far as FSN Ohio is concerned - yes, the games are slotted out well in advance. (BTW, I believe it's 150 of 162 games. I know for sure there are 162 games in a year.







) But I thought there may be some flexibility to add or move games. I guess maybe not, this late in the season. All but 12 games a year are on FSN Ohio, so you expect the game to be on TV all the time.


BTW, there are rumors that WJW FOX 8 may carry (can we say it yet?) Indians playoff games, assuming they continue their current drive and make it into the playoffs. Apparently, MLB requires that playoff games are made available OTA.


I'll make the broad assumption that any games on FOX 8 won't be in HD, unless they come out of the network (FOX broadcast, not FSN Ohio).


----------



## pizza




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another one to try is 39. That one has 4 subchannels, all SD, from Trinity Broadcasting Network.
> 
> 
> Both 39 & 50 are in Akron.



Sadly, no luck on either. Still plenty of juice from 25 and 26 with a couple of channels from each as well as an audio only channel so I don't think I'll miss 49 too much. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Tom in OH

Something curious about PBS HD. Several months ago PBS HD showed on the HDTivo at ch. 50-1. For months now it just says "searching for signal". Just tried 50-3 and there it is. The SD PBS with diff. programs is 50-2. Maybe everyone knew about this...


Is everyone receiving PBS in HD?


Tom


----------



## mwagner9

Greetings all!

I'm a long time lurker of the forums here at AVS, and need some advice. I've searched around the HDTV forums here, and noticed that not too many people seem to be in Chardon. Well, I'm here, and trying to get HD OTA







I have a couple of questions about the channels in our area that I can't seem to get an answer to, and some hard ware questions too - please bear with me










1.) I'm currently using a Terk HDTVa antenna (indoor) and get decent reception. The channels I get are a little strange though. I get Cleveland ABC (5-1) and youngstown's NBC and WB (20-1 and 20-2) I also get 43-1 and 43-2, plus 61. I'm trying to figure out what kind of antenna setup will get me more of the cleveland local channels (In particular CBS ) Anyone near my area like to post some advice?


2.) Where can I find a list of ALL the channels broadcasting in our area? Antenna web just lists 5 channels, but I get more than that.


3.) I'm actually happy with the OTA so far, but is it a big improvement to get cable?We have adelphia in our area, and lets just say I'm not impressed with their pricing for even regular cable. They don't seem to offer too many more channels beyond what I can get for free. Is cable more reliable/ better quality?


Sorry for the long post, thanks for bearing with me, and hopefully someone else from around my area can shed some light on my situation!


Thanks in advance,

Mike


----------



## kosar1985

i think if you are looking for an antenna, go with an outdoor one. My personal view of Terks is that they are junk. I would recommend you go to RadioShack, Find out if the are part of the franchise, or independently owned. The difference is you can return a lot more items at the one that is owned indepently. Start with the cheapest antenna. I bought the $50 and get 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1, 43-2, and a couple of crappy channels I never watch.


----------



## mwagner9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i think if you are looking for an antenna, go with an outdoor one. My personal view of Terks is that they are junk. I would recommend you go to RadioShack, Find out if the are part of the franchise, or independently owned. The difference is you can return a lot more items at the one that is owned indepently. Start with the cheapest antenna. I bought the $50 and get 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1, 43-2, and a couple of crappy channels I never watch.




I'm not the most antenna literate, but do I need to get anything else besides the antenna? Like a rotating mast, amplifier? And is it worthwhile to have the thing installed or just do it myself?


Thanks for the input!


Mike


----------



## rlockshin

Just call Cleveland Antenna Service and speak with Jim West. He will do it all for you. Why aggravate yourself. Tell him you got his name from this forum. Phone 440-237-6888. He will send out his son Joel and he will solve you problems


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mwagner9* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Greetings all!
> 
> I'm a long time lurker of the forums here at AVS, and need some advice. I've searched around the HDTV forums here, and noticed that not too many people seem to be in Chardon. Well, I'm here, and trying to get HD OTA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a couple of questions about the channels in our area that I can't seem to get an answer to, and some hard ware questions too - please bear with me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.) I'm currently using a Terk HDTVa antenna (indoor) and get decent reception. The channels I get are a little strange though. I get Cleveland ABC (5-1) and youngstown's NBC and WB (20-1 and 20-2) I also get 43-1 and 43-2, plus 61. I'm trying to figure out what kind of antenna setup will get me more of the cleveland local channels (In particular CBS ) Anyone near my area like to post some advice?
> 
> 
> 2.) Where can I find a list of ALL the channels broadcasting in our area? Antenna web just lists 5 channels, but I get more than that.
> 
> 
> 3.) I'm actually happy with the OTA so far, but is it a big improvement to get cable?We have adelphia in our area, and lets just say I'm not impressed with their pricing for even regular cable. They don't seem to offer too many more channels beyond what I can get for free. Is cable more reliable/ better quality?
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long post, thanks for bearing with me, and hopefully someone else from around my area can shed some light on my situation!
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Mike



The digital signals for WOIO & WKYC are both VHF. Unless your TERK handles both VHF & UHF that is your first problem. Chardon is on high ground, so you shoud be able to get just about everything that is being transmitted form here on the Parma ridge. You should not need a rotor, all the transmitters are grouped close together (except for the few Akron/Canton stations). You should definitly get an outdoor antenna aimed just a little south of due west.


WOIO digital is on channel 10. There is an analog ch 10 from London, Ontario that used to come in as clear as local all over the northeast side of Greater Cleveland every summer. The presence of that analog signal will affect your reception of WOIO. WKYC is digital on ch 2, there are analog ch 2's from Detroit & Pittsburg which may interfere from time to time. Fortunately you are getting WFMJ-DT, that gives you the WB on a subchannel. The Cleveland WB is not yet digital.


You need to know the digital channel number, not just the "mapped" channel number (i.e. 3.1 and 3.2 are actually ch 2, 5.1 is actually ch 15).


These are the actual channel numbers of the digital signals:

2 - WKYC-DT

10 - WOIO-DT

15 - WEWS-DT

20 - WFMJ-DT (Youngstown - included because you indicated that you are getting it)

26 - WVIZ-DT (note: transmitting temporally from BrookPark Rd. studio with only 1 kw of power on a 99' tower)

28 - WUAB-DT

31 - WJW-DT

34 - WQHS-DT

36 - WYTV-DT (Youngstown's ABC, the signal is weaker than WFMJ)

39 - WDLI-DT (Akron/Canton has 4 subchannels from Trinity Broadcasting 17.1-.4)

47 - WOAC-DT (Canton "Shop at Home" I have not been able to lock onto this signal, I see it on the signal meter but there is too much drop-out to lock)

50 - WEAO-DT (Akron's PBS w/2 subchannels one HD the other SD)


----------



## taj2

I am new to this forum and new to HD. I am having an issue getting a consistent signal from WOIO. I seem to get a pretty strong signal from the other major networks including WKYC. My DirecTV reciever shows a signal from WKYC of about 85. My WOIO runs between 20 and 75. From what I read here if I get WKYC than I should get WOIO. I have no idea what attenna I have as it came with my DirecTV HD Tivo. I live in SW Lakewood (right on the border of Rocky River). Could this issue be the interference from the Ontario station? Will it improve it fall/winter? I am hoping to get Browns games in HD (when broadcast) and since NFL ST blacksout Browns OTA is my only bet. Thanks.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am new to this forum and new to HD. I am having an issue getting a consistent signal from WOIO. I seem to get a pretty strong signal from the other major networks including WKYC. My DirecTV reciever shows a signal from WKYC of about 85. My WOIO runs between 20 and 75. From what I read here if I get WKYC than I should get WOIO. I have no idea what attenna I have as it came with my DirecTV HD Tivo. I live in SW Lakewood (right on the border of Rocky River). Could this issue be the interference from the Ontario station? Will it improve it fall/winter? I am hoping to get Browns games in HD (when broadcast) and since NFL ST blacksout Browns OTA is my only bet. Thanks.



Welcome!


If you're up by the lake, it could very well be CFPL up in London causing you grief. Or not. Is your WKYC signal pretty steady, or does it fluctuate over days?


What are you using for an antenna?


One thing you might wanna try - try picking up analog 10 with the same antenna. If you're getting anything resembling a viewable picture there...that could be a problem.


----------



## taj2

I have noticed no issues with WKYC. I have tried searching the web to find the attenna that is on my roof with no luck. All I know is it has these little arms that can be bent/adjusted.

May sound like a stupid question but how do I test analog 10? My OTA goes through my DTV reciever.


----------



## Tom in OH

Hi,

some DTV receivers have analog tuners and some don't. You could try connecting your ota antenna coax to a vcr "antenna in" or directly to a tv's "antenna in" to check analog 10.

It might be labeled "VHF/UHF".


----------



## kosar1985

who cares about the Indians... it's Football and Hockey season. The Indians can move out of Cleveland and I wouldn't miss them one bit. To many bandwagon fans for my taste. They sucked for so long, then everybody loved them in 95-2000. THEN


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

who cares about the Indians?


why care about the Browns? they have one winning season in the last 10 years? why should we support that team?


by the way Im a Browns season ticket holder.


----------



## paule123

Very soon it will be LeBron season. Anybody know if Dan Gilbert and WUAB have done any work on getting HD Cavs games this upcoming season? I thought there was a rumor/statement made right after Gilbert bought the team that he was going to sink some money into HD ala Mark Cuban?


:wishfulthinking:



I notice on the Cavs schedule they don't have a network listed for "local TV":
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/ 


Could it be that there is no deal signed yet for the local broadcasts?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very soon it will be LeBron season. Anybody know if Dan Gilbert and WUAB have done any work on getting HD Cavs games this upcoming season? I thought there was a rumor/statement made right after Gilbert bought the team that he was going to sink some money into HD ala Mark Cuban?
> 
> 
> :wishfulthinking:
> 
> 
> 
> I notice on the Cavs schedule they don't have a network listed for "local TV":
> http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/
> 
> 
> Could it be that there is no deal signed yet for the local broadcasts?



I noticed that too (been to the Cavs site looking for the TV schedule). Seeing how WUAB is operated by the same company as WOIO I would not hold my breath re: HD. If anything they would just give us "stretch-o-vision" like they did for the last Browns preseason game. I noticed that 19 Action news is now in stretch-o-vision on 19 but on 43 it's still 4 X 3.


----------



## mwagner9

Michael,

Thanks for the detailed channel info - that information is surprisingly hard to find all in one place.


All,


I guess no it comes down to what antenna I should get that gets both good VHF and UHF reception. I know from reading the forums that the channel master 42XX antennas are good - but they are only UHF from what I understand. Anyone have a recommendation for an antenna for our area?


I also happen to "have" an antenna from my sister-in-laws house, however, when I hooked up my receiver to it I got zippo reception. It is a fairly large antenna, but I have no way to identify what the heck it is. As far as I can tell, it is a LPDA antenna, and towards the front, it has a vee or corner reflector. I think it must be a VHF antenna. Is that correct?


----------



## Michael P 2341

I did a Google search on LPDA antennas. It appears that stands for "Log Periodic Dipole Array". The first example of a LPDA antenna was for a wireless microphone, the rest were for short-wave radio used by amateurs. I could not find one TV application for LPDA.


----------



## mwagner9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did a Google search on LPDA antennas. It appears that stands for "Log Periodic Dipole Array". The first example of a LPDA antenna was for a wireless microphone, the rest were for short-wave radio used by amateurs. I could not find one TV application for LPDA.



Well, guess that shows that I don't have much of an idea what I'm talking about.


I'll keep researching this - its good to know that some of the channels are VHF, since I was just planing on getting a UHF antenna.


Thanks!

Mike


----------



## Inundated

With WOIO/WUAB, we're lucky to get the games in color.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With WOIO/WUAB, we're lucky to get the games in color.



:rotfl:

I wish someone from Raycom actually read these comments. Maybe they do seeing how they added the stretch-o-vision to the last Browns presseason game in a feeble attempt to fake us out.


I don't even have an HDTV screen (just an STB) and I can tell the difference.


----------



## Inundated

At times, it feels that Raycom is "faking out" being a TV station.


I will give them props - they GENERALLY don't seem to mess up CBS or UPN HD programming. Well, aside from sliding out of it too late on Sunday nights...


----------



## Felony44

I have a question i hope i can get a answer to. I just bought a VU-120XR from the shack i live in Eastlake and im having trouble getting 10 (CBS) and 31 (FOX) everything else is good my signal on 10,31 is around 28-50 and when it gets up hi enough the picture comes in. i have tired rotating the the 120 and the signal doesnt change much. Is there anything else to try or do i need a pre-amp?


Thanks


----------



## Felony44

Ok i fixed the channel 10 woio problem by adding a pre-amp signal is around 67-70 but i still have a problem with Fox 31 any other suggestions the signal is bouncing from 28-78


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok i fixed the channel 10 woio problem by adding a pre-amp signal is around 67-70 but i still have a problem with Fox 31 any other suggestions the signal is bouncing from 28-78



Do you have a continuous length of good RG/6 coax (not RG/59) direct from the antenna to the receiver, and not going through any splitters?


Is the antenna pointed the right way -- the "tip of the arrow" should point away from Parma. I only ask because when I installed mine I thought the "arrow" should point towards the transmitters -- until I read those pesky instructions, LOL.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> who cares about the Indians... it's Football and Hockey season.



Oh Hockey....the profesional sport that wasn't played last year.


Nope, didn't miss that one at all.


And what local hockey team is there here? Is it in the NHL? These are serious questions, I don't ever recall hearing about a Cleveland hockey team.


----------



## Felony44

paule123, yes ihave the arrow pointing away and yes on the R6 and no splitters but i do have the RS pre-amp. which really helped with channel 10 WOIO but channel 31 Fox is bouncing bad going from 80 down to no signal at all its unwatchable. the best signal i get is the spanish channel at 88 the rest are 70-80s which from reading here doesnt seem to good. are there any tweaks i can try? was thinking of changing to a 10 ft mast instead of the 5ft one i use now.


----------



## kosar1985

And what local hockey team is there here? Is it in the NHL? These are serious questions, I don't ever recall hearing about a Cleveland hockey team.[/quote]

Columbus has one, but I don't follow them. I follow the Philadelphia Flyers. Anyways, Indians fans are not loyal to the team, if people loved them so much, the the old stadium would've had more then 5,000 fans a night. CLEVELAND WILL ALWAYS BE A BROWNS TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## taj2

I am still having trouble with OTA locals from DirecTV. They installed a pretty cheap antenna (so I am told) a couple weeks ago and I have had very poor reception since then (ie unable to watch Browns in HD last weekend, WKYC faded in and out all night last night). I live in Lakewood about 8 miles from the various towers. I have been told that with "rabbit ears" I would get better HD reception than with the antenna I have. I am not sure the make/model but have been told that it is a pretty old model that is ineffective. My question: does anyone on this forum use an internal antenna and what is the success? I figure with my current set-up I have a couple of things working against me: 1) a bad antenna and 2) my OTA goes through a DirecTV diplexer (although I heard this has minimal effect on my HD signal). I am not sure how much money and effort I want to spend on this as I have heard that DirecTV will begin offering HD locals either late 2005 or by April 2006. Any help on how I can watch local HD until then is appreciated - I primarily want to watch the Browns when they are in HD.


----------



## kosar1985

I went and bought the cheapest outdoor antenna from the Shack, and it worked great. If you go that route, make sure you know their exchange policy first. Some Shack's are owned independently. They tend to be able to return more items. I tried every indoor antenna, don't waste your time. Just get an outdoor one. Also, I know that NBC and CBS are on VHF, not UHF so you will need an antenna that gets both.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> And what local hockey team is there here? Is it in the NHL? These are serious questions, I don't ever recall hearing about a Cleveland hockey team.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Columbus has one, but I don't follow them. I follow the Philadelphia Flyers. Anyways, Indians fans are not loyal to the team, if people loved them so much, the the old stadium would've had more then 5,000 fans a night. CLEVELAND WILL ALWAYS BE A BROWNS TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...



Don't generalize so much about Indians fans. By the end of this season, I will have gone to at least 100 games from 02-05. I know other people who are die hard as well. Saying this town will always be a Browns Town is true. It will. It shows how stupid the people of Cleveland are. More hype about a Browns team on the rebuild vs. an Indians team potentially making the playoffs. Oh and if anyone says, what about the Cavs, they almost made the playoffs last year? Well, its not to hard when 53% of teams make the playoffs in the NBA. Oh and Hockey is cool, but the NHL sucks too.


Again, I love all 3 teams, but for the Browns to sell out and not the Tribe, well thats a shame.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am still having trouble with OTA locals from DirecTV. They installed a pretty cheap antenna (so I am told) a couple weeks ago and I have had very poor reception since then (ie unable to watch Browns in HD last weekend, WKYC faded in and out all night last night). I live in Lakewood about 8 miles from the various towers. I have been told that with "rabbit ears" I would get better HD reception than with the antenna I have. I am not sure the make/model but have been told that it is a pretty old model that is ineffective. My question: does anyone on this forum use an internal antenna and what is the success? I figure with my current set-up I have a couple of things working against me: 1) a bad antenna and 2) my OTA goes through a DirecTV diplexer (although I heard this has minimal effect on my HD signal). I am not sure how much money and effort I want to spend on this as I have heard that DirecTV will begin offering HD locals either late 2005 or by April 2006. Any help on how I can watch local HD until then is appreciated - I primarily want to watch the Browns when they are in HD.



Here is part of your problem:


> Quote:
> I live in Lakewood about 8 miles from the various towers.



Hav you ever watched analog tv OTA at your location? For reasons unknown (terrain, Hopkins Airport traffic, directional transmisions northward cut back since most of the signal goes over the lake, etc.) Lakewood has always had terrible OTA reception problems. As close as Lakewood is to Parma you would think that the reception would be pristine. I have seen this problem first-hand when I did E* dish installs as a hobby (and before Cleveland LIL's were offered).


With analog you still get the picture, just with ghosts. With digital "ghosts" (Multipath) is the kiss of death.


What you'll need to do is get a decent OUTDOR VHF/UHF combination antenna and

try several different locations on your property. Hopefully you'll find a sweet spot where interference is at a minimum and all desired stations come in reliably. A little bit higher or a little bit to the east or west may make a big difference.


I experienced this with the stations that broadcast for Akron at my old house. Five feet east of my chimney gave me good receptiopn on stations that were virtually unwatchable from my chimney (analog 23 & 49).



> Quote:
> I have a question i hope i can get a answer to. I just bought a VU-120XR from the shack i live in Eastlake and im having trouble getting 10 (CBS) and 31 (FOX) everything else is good my signal on 10,31 is around 28-50 and when it gets up hi enough the picture comes in. i have tired rotating the the 120 and the signal doesnt change much. Is there anything else to try or do i need a pre-amp?
> 
> 
> Thanks



FOX 8 (31) is a little bit farther south than the rest of the Cleveland locals from Eastlake (but not by much). WKYC & WOIO are the farthest north and are the only 2 VHF digitals at this time. If you had to do it over, I'd get seperate VHF and UHF only antennas. Aim the VHF slightly more ESE and the UHF more SSE. The only UHF's at the north end are Univision 61/34 and WBNX 55 (not digital yet).


If you want to "shoot for the middle" see if you can peak out your signal strength meter on WEWS (5/15). WJW is very close to WEWS to the south and WUAB is very close to the north.


Good luck to all!


----------



## Felony44

Thanks for the help now the next question if i use two antennas a uhf and a vhf how do i combine the signals? i figure with a 2 into 1 type connector any suggestions there?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help now the next question if i use two antennas a uhf and a vhf how do i combine the signals? i figure with a 2 into 1 type connector any suggestions there?



Get a splitter/combiner that is labeled with seperate UHF & VHF inputs. Having inputs that are band specific will filter out stray signals (i.e. out-of-band). For example most UHF antennas will also pick-up the very top end of the VHF band. You would want to filter out the VHF signals that the UHF antenna might pick-up. A band-specific combiner does that.


----------



## lxjenkins

A few questions:


1.) I live in downtown Akron and have the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna (UHF only). I'm getting good to great reception from all UHF channels, but would like to purchase an indoor VHF antenna to see if I can also get CBS and NBC. Do any of you have any suggestions as to a particular brand/model?


2.) The coax cable that came with my Silver Sensor is lousy. What do you suggest I upgrade to?


3.) Finally, my antenna signal only runs over 6 feet of cable. Would an amplifier make much of a difference in signal strength?


Thanks for the help.


----------



## neuronbob

I have been looking for peoples' experience with the SharpShooter 3000 indoor antenna as I'm trying to optimize my OTA HD experience. the antenna I have connected to my DirecTV HR10-250 (HD/Tivo) now, an RCA amplified loop, simply sucks, rather disappointing given I live on a hill in Bedford, 13 miles from the local transmitters.


Because I live in the Cleveland market, I require an antenna that can handle low-UHF channels like Channel 3 (DT is on channel 2), and Channel 19 (DT is on channel 10). I therefore can't just buy a Silver Sensor and forget it.


In any case, I'm interested in the above antenna, not the Terk look-alike, as I've heard some good things about it.


Thanks in advance. Please, no comments about going outside, that is an absolute last resort, especially with MPEG4 HD locals coming to DirecTV in the next year or two.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In any case, I'm interested in the above antenna, not the Terk look-alike, as I've heard some good things about it.



I was going to correct you, but I wasn't aware there WAS a "SharpShooter", and it appears to be an entirely different model than the "SquareShooter" from the same company:

http://www.winegard.com/offair/sharp...oter_12-08.pdf 


Hmmm...I wonder how good this is?


----------



## kosar1985

the Pats- Stellers game doesn't look like it's in HD. Is there a number to call WOIO to correct this


----------



## kosar1985

my bad I spelled Steelers wrong


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> my bad I spelled Steelers wrong



Kosar, me and Inundated called the station at the same time and they magically flipped the switch. It's HD now.


My thanks to Indundated over on the CBS NFL Week 3 thread, here's the WOIO tipline number for future reference:

Tipline Phone #: (216) 781-1900 or (877) 929-1943


----------



## Inundated

I hate bugging the newsroom folks about that sort of thing, but WOIO is actually usually pretty good about this sort of thing. Their biggest problem is usually forgetting to switch AWAY from the late game's HD feed.


----------



## Inundated

WOIO back to overstretched SD for the second half. Arrgh.


----------



## Inundated

Back to HD on WOIO. Thanks again, Paul!


----------



## neuronbob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was going to correct you, but I wasn't aware there WAS a "SharpShooter", and it appears to be an entirely different model than the "SquareShooter" from the same company:
> 
> http://www.winegard.com/offair/sharp...oter_12-08.pdf
> 
> 
> Hmmm...I wonder how good this is?



I looked at the Squareshooter 2000 but really don't want an outdoors solution with DirecTV HD locals around the corner. The Sharpshooter 3000 was just released in July, and a Terk lookalike shortly thereafter (which, not surprisingly, got bad reviews).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked at the Squareshooter 2000 but really don't want an outdoors solution with DirecTV HD locals around the corner. The Sharpshooter 3000 was just released in July, and a Terk lookalike shortly thereafter (which, not surprisingly, got bad reviews).



I saw the Terk look alike on Best Buy's website. I know Terk actually rebrands the SquareShooter...i.e. it IS the exact same antenna, only $50 more (!!!)...but I didn't know if this was a rebrand of the SharpShooter or a knockoff, like their HDTVi is (vs. Silver Sensor).


I'd love to see if the SharpShooter does well around here. It sounds, from the specs and the initial info in the press release, like it might solve many problems, particularly with WKYC-DT.


----------



## Oiler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh Hockey....the profesional sport that wasn't played last year.
> 
> 
> Nope, didn't miss that one at all.
> 
> 
> And what local hockey team is there here? Is it in the NHL? These are serious questions, I don't ever recall hearing about a Cleveland hockey team.




For what it is worth the Cleveland Barons played in the NHL. They were

the California Golden Seals and then merged with the Minnisota North Satrs

and eventually became that Dallas Stars.


See
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl...nd/barons.html 











Regards


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Oiler* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For what it is worth the Cleveland Barons played in the NHL. They were
> 
> the California Golden Seals and then merged with the Minnisota North Satrs
> 
> and eventually became that Dallas Stars.



And Cleveland had a World Hockey Association team, the Crusaders, which played in the old Richfield Coliseum. (And I do mean "the old", as they tore it down not long after Gund Arena was built downtown.)


But hookbill's larger point stands...Cleveland really doesn't take to hockey. There's a very small, diehard base here - like 5,000 or so - that shows up for the minor league games, but even the AHL Barons are not sure to return to the Convocation Center next year.


The Blue Jackets have some fans up here, but most of 'em are probably that same group that goes to the Barons' games.


----------



## thorton22

I've been receiving HD through an over-the-air antenna and HD receiver for about a month. I just got a letter in the mail from the allotment association saying the the deed restrictions prohibit outside antennas.


Does the Communications Act of 1996 still protect individuals against such restrictions being levied? Can anyone point me in the right direction or just tell me that I am crazy? Thanks.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been receiving HD through an over-the-air antenna and HD receiver for about a month. I just got a letter in the mail from the allotment association saying the the deed restrictions prohibit outside antennas.
> 
> 
> Does the Communications Act of 1996 still protect individuals against such restrictions being levied? Can anyone point me in the right direction or just tell me that I am crazy? Thanks.



Tell them to "take a hike" per the below site/information.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been receiving HD through an over-the-air antenna and HD receiver for about a month. I just got a letter in the mail from the allotment association saying the the deed restrictions prohibit outside antennas.
> 
> 
> Does the Communications Act of 1996 still protect individuals against such restrictions being levied? Can anyone point me in the right direction or just tell me that I am crazy? Thanks.



I wish that HOA's would be delcared unamerican and be abolished. All that is necessary are good zoning ordinances to keep cars off blocks, grass cut etc.. That it the City's business, not a buch of nosy would-be 3rd world dictator neighbors. Nobody is going to tell me what color to paint my house or stop me from erecting any antenna I want (within reason).


----------



## RLucky82

I have the Terk HDTVa and here are the stations I recieve:


D3-1 WKYC-HD

D3-2 WKYC-WX

D5-1 WEWS-DT

D8-1 WJW-DT


D17-1 WDLI-D1

D17-2 WDLI-D2

D17-3 WDLI-D3

D17-4 WDLI-D4 }religion


D19-1 WOIO-DT

D43-1 WUAB-TV

D43-2 TUBE (Music - non-comercial)

D50-1 WEAO-D1

D50-2 WEAO-D2

D61-1 WQHS-DT


I have no complaints aobut the antena but without the amp it doesn't do much. and I live in the North/West Medina area.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Is anyone having problems with copy protection with Comcast? I live in North Ridgeville and I'm getting this error using the firewire port connection to my JVC 40000 D-VHS:


"Copy Restrictetd Prog Output 480I Video (302)"


I have the Phase III 6412 Motorola Box and I never had this problem with the 6412 Phase I box that I was using up until last week. I get this on all the HDTV Channels.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RLucky82* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the Terk HDTVa and here are the stations I recieve:
> 
> 
> D3-1 WKYC-HD
> 
> D50-1 WEAO-D1
> 
> D50-2 WEAO-D2
> 
> 
> I have no complaints aobut the antena but without the amp it doesn't do much. and I live in the North/West Medina area.



...same stations here w/the HDTivo except


50-2

50-3 PBS HD

50-4


And I'm still getting WKYC HD on both:

3-1

3-3


----------



## hookbill

I'm just wondering if anyone viewed this show live Friday or recorded it and viewed it. For some reason my DVR only caught 19 minutes of this show. I noticed that on other CBS show's they were having a great deal of glitches and the last 15 minutes of Numb3rs was in SD in lovely stretch-o-vision.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RLucky82* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the Terk HDTVa



Which one is this? Is this the Silver Sensor knockoff with the aerial antennas?


That's the HDTVi, I believe. I only ask because I don't know if they've introduced a new "a" antenna.


Oh, and 17-x is WDLI, not WLDI.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone having problems with copy protection with Comcast? I live in North Ridgeville and I'm getting this error using the firewire port connection to my JVC 40000 D-VHS:
> 
> 
> "Copy Restrictetd Prog Output 480I Video (302)"
> 
> 
> I have the Phase III 6412 Motorola Box and I never had this problem with the 6412 Phase I box that I was using up until last week. I get this on all the HDTV Channels.



You can thank the DCMA (Digital Copyright Millineum Act) for that message. The only way you can record to the DVHS is via the analog outputs.


----------



## mwagner9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which one is this? Is this the Silver Sensor knockoff with the aerial antennas?
> 
> 
> That's the HDTVi, I believe. I only ask because I don't know if they've introduced a new "a" antenna.




Yes and no. It does look like the Silver Sensor, with the dipoles also. However, I think this differs from the HDTVi in that the "a" stands for amplified. Mine has an amplifier, and it actually pulls in pretty good signals here in Chardon. Though, as I say that, I am getting an outdoor antenna installed this week


----------



## edjrwinnt

I've heard about my problem in other areas of the country, but I was able to record using the Phaser I 6412 Motorola box via Firewire within the last week or 2. Did Comcast just enable the copyright flag in our area within that time?


----------



## neuronbob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd love to see if the SharpShooter does well around here. It sounds, from the specs and the initial info in the press release, like it might solve many problems, particularly with WKYC-DT.



Well, we'll see if it works......I ordered a SharpShooter today and it should be here later this week.


Dang, if only Cleveland didn't have any VHF HDTV channels, I could probably skate by with a Silver Sensor....


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which one is this? Is this the Silver Sensor knockoff with the aerial antennas?
> 
> 
> That's the HDTVi, I believe. I only ask because I don't know if they've introduced a new "a" antenna.







Yes, it is, I didn't know that the Silver Sensor was the first. and the a is for the amp that plugs into the wall and the end of the coax cable. it has a switch that can be turned on and off, but if unplugged it doesn't pick up much.


Does the Silver Sensor have any type of amp attachment?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, and 17-x is WDLI, not WLDI.










Typo Fixed


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dang, if only Cleveland didn't have any VHF HDTV channels, I could probably skate by with a Silver Sensor....




..agreed on VHF, how did NBC end up with ch. 2? It disappears everytime someone turns on the vacuum upstairs(electrical interference I guess).


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if anyone viewed this show live Friday or recorded it and viewed it. For some reason my DVR only caught 19 minutes of this show. I noticed that on other CBS show's they were having a great deal of glitches and the last 15 minutes of Numb3rs was in SD in lovely stretch-o-vision.



...just checked our recording of "Ghost Whisperer" and it's all there. Had high hopes for this show but ya never know for sure until 3 or 4 episodes. I'll save it for ya in case u'd like to stop by to see it...


----------



## rlockshin

Just spoke with engineer at WTOL in Toledo. They were just bought by Raycom ( owns WOIO and WUAB here). Cost to pass thru Dolby Digital sound is between 7-10 thousand for the equipment.

Why cant WEWS and WOIO give us 5.1 sound

They seem to be our most problematic stations


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with engineer at WTOL in Toledo. They were just bought by Raycom ( owns WOIO and WUAB here). Cost to pass thru Dolby Digital sound is between 7-10 thousand for the equipment.
> 
> Why cant WEWS and WOIO give us 5.1 sound
> 
> They seem to be our most problematic stations



You answered your own question "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" Since when has any Cleveland station spent $$$$$$$$$$$$ to do any upgrade correctly?


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You answered your own question "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" Since when has any Cleveland station spent $$$$$$$$$$$$ to do any upgrade correctly?



WJW Fox 8


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WJW Fox 8



Except it's not a "Cleveland owned" station. It's actually owned by FOX.


----------



## Inundated

And that's funny...WJW FOX 8 has the market's ONLY locally-originated HDTV content.


Cleveland is one of a number of pro sports markets with NO locally produced HDTV coverage of any of its major pro teams. It's certainly smaller than, say, NYC or Chicago (two markets that do have local HDTV sports), but smaller markets do better...San Diego is a smaller market than Cleveland, and the Padres not only have HDTV coverage, they have their own HD channel on Cox Cable there! (4SD)


Part of the problem, of course, is Fox Sports Net Ohio, a notoriously cheap operation that doesn't even have local *SD* programming outside the actual games and "on the fly" pre-game and post-game shows.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RLucky82* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, it is, I didn't know that the Silver Sensor was the first. and the a is for the amp that plugs into the wall and the end of the coax cable. it has a switch that can be turned on and off, but if unplugged it doesn't pick up much.
> 
> 
> Does the Silver Sensor have any type of amp attachment?



For whatever reason, Terk hasn't added the HDTVa to their website, but you can find it all over if you do a Google search on "HDTVa". It appears to be about $45-50ish, and Radio Shack may actually have it. Their online catalog shows what is listed as the HDTVi, but at $49 and with "Amplified" in the name.


I'm still put off by Terk-anything, though we do have a couple of regulars here who use the non-amplified HDTVi and are OK with it.


My problem here isn't amplification. The UHF signals in the Cleveland market all come in like gangbusters if the antenna's pointed in the right direction...and I have a cheapie RCA amplified antenna with amplification turned off. If I turn on the amplifier to any degree, it wipes out all the signals.


The only problem I have OTA is WKYC-DT, and amplification does nothing to even remotely help that. I suspect if I'm gonna get WKYC-DT OTA at all with an indoor antenna, that SharpShooter might be the only choice. But since I have cable, I'm not terribly worried about it.


Oh, the Silver Sensor has no amplification.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Except it's not a "Cleveland owned" station. It's actually owned by FOX.



What stations are "Cleveland Owned"?


A check of the FCC database reveals that:

WKYC-TV Inc. c/o Gannett Co. McLean, VA

WEWS: Scripps Howard Broadcasting Company, Cincinnati, OH

WJW License Inc, Washington DC

WOIO & WUAB: Raycom National Inc. Montgomery, AL

WBNX Winston BRoadcasting Co. Cuyahoga Falls, OH (close, but still not "Cleveland")

WQHS Univision Cleveland LLC, Los Angeles, CA

WVIZ is the only station with a Cleveland "owner": Ideastream


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Except it's not a "Cleveland owned" station. It's actually owned by FOX.



He just said Cleveland station, not Cleveland owned.


----------



## neuronbob

I ordered a Winegard SharpShooter SS-3000 from Summit Source (Ft. Wayne, IN) earlier this week, received it tonight. I've been fooling around with it tonight and find it's pretty much place it and forget it. All the HD stations have 88-95% signal according to my DirecTV HR10-250 except for WKYC-DT, which is in the low 60's. NOT BAD for a first effort. With the old amplified RCA loop I used before, I was getting 60's-70's for all channels, and was getting WJW-DT only intermittently.


So, it appears to have been a well-spent $94.


To note: I am in Bedford/Oakwood , 13 miles north and east of the Parma towers, and on a slight hill with lots of trees.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NOT BAD for a first effort. With the old amplified RCA loop I used before, I was getting 60's-70's for all channels, and was getting WJW-DT only intermittently.
> 
> 
> So, it appears to have been a well-spent $94.
> 
> 
> To note: I am in Bedford/Oakwood , 13 miles north and east of the Parma towers, and on a slight hill with lots of trees.



Hi,

are u receiving PBS channels w/ your HDTivo?


It used to be on 50-1 but now that channel is blank. Are u receiving PBS HD on channel 50-3? (50-2 and 50-4 are SD).


----------



## neuronbob

No, I'm not. I can't receive channel 25 (WVIZ-DT) because the transmitter is too far away and too weak--I'd have to get an outside antenna for that, so forget that.


I can sometimes get channel 49's digital transmissions, but they are weak even in optimal conditions with an indoor antenna.


I simply depend on the satellite for those channels.


----------



## mwagner9

Well,

The Antenna guy came out and did a survey, and the signal in my neighborhood appears to be too weak for me to get HD OTA. So, is Adelphia any good around here? And if you just want the local channels, do you still have to pay extra. I'm looking to see what someone else has, since the Adelphia site doesn't really have any info at all. (Basically, it lets you enter your info so someone can call you







)



Thanks,

Mike


----------



## rljjr

Hi Mike: I am in the Chardon area and feel your pain on the HD OTA. I still have a perfectly useless Directv antenna on my roof that brings in nothing! I've always had a locals only account with Adelphia, for when the dish goes out. It includes HD local channels, and is under $10 per month. I even picked up their HD DVR for recording said locals, and my total bill is under $24 per month. I use my HDTivo for the other channels.

Bob


----------



## neuronbob

Wow! HD locals with a local channel account on Adelphia for $10 a month? I didn't know that was even an option. That's a steal!


If I couldn't get OTA channels, that'd be the way I'd get my locals.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WBNX Winston BRoadcasting Co. Cuyahoga Falls, OH (close, but still not "Cleveland")
> 
> (snip)
> 
> WVIZ is the only station with a Cleveland "owner": Ideastream



Considering that the Cleveland market includes not only Cuyahoga Falls, but Akron, Canton and even Mansfield, I'd count WBNX as "local ownership" here. And it certainly serves as the entire market's WB affiliate, with a full-power transmitter in Brecksville (Cuyahoga County).


And in addition to WVIZ, the other local public broadcaster (WNEO/WEAO) is also locally owned.


Everybody else is owned by large out-of-town chains.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> are u receiving PBS channels w/ your HDTivo?
> 
> 
> It used to be on 50-1 but now that channel is blank. Are u receiving PBS HD on channel 50-3? (50-2 and 50-4 are SD).



50-4? I'm only getting two channels out of WEAO-DT - 50-1 (HD, 24 hour PBS HD feed) and 50-2 (SD simulcast of OTA WEAO/49). Of course, I get them rather easily because I am well within the station's service area in Akron.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, it appears to have been a well-spent $94.



Hmm, sounds good. I'm still not sure it's worth it for me because I get everyone except WKYC-DT with no problem right now, and I have Adelphia, which I usually use for locals, anyway...


But thanks for the report!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, I'm not. I can't receive channel 25 (WVIZ-DT) because the transmitter is too far away and too weak--I'd have to get an outside antenna for that, so forget that.
> 
> 
> I can sometimes get channel 49's digital transmissions, but they are weak even in optimal conditions with an indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> I simply depend on the satellite for those channels.



Hi Bob,

same here for WVIZ-DT, not even a 'blip'. I was curious if your HDTivo showed WEAO-DT on the 50's. Makes me happy to be able to receive their high def version on 50-3(PBS HD) (used to be 50-1) and wondered if all HDTivos tuned this channel on the new position 50-3. It's never showed up in the guide. It has to be punched in manually.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> same here for WVIZ-DT, not even a 'blip'. I was curious if your HDTivo showed WEAO-DT on the 50's. Makes me happy to be able to receive their high def version on 50-3(PBS HD) (used to be 50-1) and wondered if all HDTivos tuned this channel on the new position 50-3. It's never showed up in the guide. It has to be punched in manually.



This must be a DirecTV thing. On my OTA receiver, WEAO-DT has always been:


50-1 - PBS HD 24 hour feed

50-2 - WEAO/49 SD simulcast


I just rescanned 50 for the heck of it, and it hasn't changed. I know DirecTV could be different since they use program data from Tribune Media Services for the HDTivo, which could be causing what you describe.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This must be a DirecTV thing. On my OTA receiver, WEAO-DT has always been:
> 
> 
> 50-1 - PBS HD 24 hour feed
> 
> 50-2 - WEAO/49 SD simulcast
> 
> 
> I just rescanned 50 for the heck of it, and it hasn't changed. I know DirecTV could be different since they use program data from Tribune Media Services for the HDTivo, which could be causing what you describe.



Just checked again and 50-3 is still the PBS HD(alliance/akron). 50-2 and 50-4 are both showing the SD simulcast of 49. It must be a mismatch somewhere with the program data like u said.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just checked again and 50-3 is still the PBS HD(alliance/akron). 50-2 and 50-4 are both showing the SD simulcast of 49. It must be a mismatch somewhere with the program data like u said.



And part of it must be that WNEO/WEAO do not remap their HD channels OTA to their analog channel numbers. In addition to WEAO-DT being 50-1/2 instead of 49-1/2, WNEO is 46-1/2 instead of 45-1/2.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Considering that the Cleveland market includes not only Cuyahoga Falls, but Akron, Canton and even Mansfield, I'd count WBNX as "local ownership" here. And it certainly serves as the entire market's WB affiliate, with a full-power transmitter in Brecksville (Cuyahoga County).
> 
> 
> And in addition to WVIZ, the other local public broadcaster (WNEO/WEAO) is also locally owned.
> 
> 
> Everybody else is owned by large out-of-town chains.



WBNX's transmitter was moved to Parma around 10 years ago. It's behind Parmadale/Camp Corde' next to WQHS's tower. The WBNX tower also has nearly every LPTV station's antenna as well: ch 35, 53, and 65. So if you are aiming an antenna for WBNX, forget Brecksville!


When WBNX first came on the air the transmitter was located in Brecksville on the same tower that has WTAM (then WWWE) and I believe 93.1 FM. I could not get the ch 55 signal at all in Euclid when they were transmitting from Brecksville.


As for PBS: I can get both WVIZ and WEAO using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna. I have to aim then antenna differently for these stations, neither come in well or at all when I'm aimed at WJW/WEWS/WUAB.


WEAO maps to 050-01 PBS HD, and 050-02 WEAO's SD feed (same as analog 49)

This is on an Echostar PVR 921. While I never had it happen on WEAO, I have had false mappings (where you get additional subchannels that are the same as the main feeds) on other OTA digital stations. I believe it's caused by a PSIP data error form the broadcaster's end. A rescan (once the broadcaster fixes the error) usually fixes the problem.


WVIZ's 025-01 is PBS HD, 025-02 is The Ohio Channel, 025-09 is CRRS an audio only reading service for the blind that may also be on the analog feed's sap channel. WVIZ does not simulcast their analog feed as SD digital at this time









That is a shame, I find myself watching WEAO insted for the SD feed.


----------



## Tom in OH

Thx for the channel info michael and inundated. It's also good we bring this up just to be sure everyone knows how to find the channels in case they don't show up in the guide and have to be punched in manually. It's a chore but anything HD is worth a look... ^_^


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WBNX's transmitter was moved to Parma around 10 years ago. It's behind Parmadale/Camp Corde' next to WQHS's tower. The WBNX tower also has nearly every LPTV station's antenna as well: ch 35, 53, and 65. So if you are aiming an antenna for WBNX, forget Brecksville!



Oops, I don't know why Brecksville stuck in my head. You're right, they're in Parma now. They moved shortly after I left the market.


You know when that frequency was first proposed, by then-Cathedral of Tomorrow head Rev. Rex Humbard, he was gonna put the antenna on top of the now-unfinished tower on State Road?


If they'd have done that, I'd have been able to pick up both 55 and whatever its DT would become with a coat hanger.


----------



## mwagner9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neuronbob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow! HD locals with a local channel account on Adelphia for $10 a month? I didn't know that was even an option. That's a steal!
> 
> 
> If I couldn't get OTA channels, that'd be the way I'd get my locals.




I second that Wow... I didn't think it was possible to get anything from Adelphia for less than 10 bucks










This weekend, I drover over to Sandusky to visit friends, and had to chuckle at the Adelphia billboard I saw on I-90. It said "Starting at $15 dollars a month" I just have BASIC cable and its almost $50. ??


I'll call them up and see if I can get the same deal though, thanks for the tip










Mike


----------



## hopefulhdtvguy

Did anyone else have reception problems in the morning and most of the afternoon yesterday? Fox usually comes in fine for me but yesterday it was as if my antenna was faulty or there was bad weather.


From Painesville Twp., ABC & Fox are in the same direction; so when I changed the channel to 5.1 (ABCDT) I got perfect reception. Oh, and the weather was fantastic: sunny and in the low 80's.


Later in the late afternoon and evening, the transmission seemed to be fine. What gives?


Thanks,


----------



## Inundated

Sorry...I didn't check the WJW-DT OTA signal. I did occasionally go by the FOX HD feed of whatever NFL game(s) they were carrying, but I was watching via Adelphia. I saw no problems.


I *believe* Adelphia gets their HD channels by just picking up the signal OTA - I know for sure they do this with both WVIZ and WEWS. Of course, Adelphia has much larger antennas closer to the towers than you.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS-DT just went blank for a few minutes, with Monday Night Football in HD (and audio still going).


It just went up tonight. They appear to be having occasional glitches...nothing huge, but maybe a sign of why it went out.


----------



## hookbill

This doesn't mean more HD, but I noticed today that the 800's have a whole bunch (if not all) of their analog stations listed on the guide in that range. Probably that means they are getting ready to switch to digital soon. That will be great for us with the 8000, and 8300. Picture should be sharp and clear, also better sound as well.


More then likely they will swifch out their analog people to the 800 stations and carry the digital on the current station as they have done in the past.


----------



## JoeySR

I understand the 800's but I can't figure why they created the 903,904,905, 906 and 908 channels. Handsworth alerted us to this a few weeks ago. It will be nice.


JoeySR


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand the 800's but I can't figure why they created the 903,904,905, 906 and 908 channels. Handsworth alerted us to this a few weeks ago. It will be nice.
> 
> 
> JoeySR



I must of missed handsworths post. I was surprised when I saw it this morning that I didn't hear about it first from handsworth.


I believe they will test all the channels on this 800 line up until they are sure they are working correctly. Once they see everything working ok they will probably delete 903-908.


----------



## vox8940

Well I just got my new TV last night (Sony 34XBR960) and hooked it up to my antnenna mounted on the roof (2-story house). The TV has the built in ATSC tuner and works good. I received WOIO-DT in HD, but nothing else. I live in Akron, by the way, near Firestone Park. Would somone be so kind to list which stations are broadcasting in HD right now and tips to pull them in. I'd like to watch WKYC-DT to see Conan O'Brien in HD, but am not able to get a signal from them. (I've read troublesome things about Channel 2) I'd also like to see the MLB Playoffs in HD. Is WJW (Fox 8) broadcasting in 720P or 1080i ?

Thanks in advance.

Mike


----------



## paule123

vox,

You can find the list of stations broadcasting digitally at www.antennaweb.org 


Fox and ABC broadcast 720p, all the others (CBS, NBC, PBS) are 1080i


----------



## joepic

From MediaWeek, By John Consoli

October 05, 2005


Fox Sports Net will carry 253 more live regional sports telecasts in high definition throughout the next year (October 2005 to September 2006), boosting its number of live HD telecasts to 475.


Sixty of those will be National Hockey League games, which did not air last season due to the NHL lockout. There will also be additional telecasts of National Basketball Association games and other sports in various local markets.


Randy Freer, COO of Fox Sports Net, said the goal by the end 2006 is "to be televising a majority of the live sporting events in each of our markets in HD."


FSN is the leading producer of HD local programming "on a pure number-of-events basis", Freer said. "Because we are doing it in local markets, we sometimes operate below the radar and don't get the recognition that the national broadcast networks get."


Producing the games creates a more valuable service for the cable operators to sell, added Freer. FSN now has a number of dual-production trucks that allow for the transmission of two analog and two HD telecasts out of the same truck, giving the net the ability to televise a game to both home and away audiences in both analog and HD.


FSN is producing its live game telecasts in HD for all cable operators except Comcast, with whom Freer says FSN is currently having conversations.


----------



## paule123

I see they've settled the Cavs TV schedule. Mostly an FSN Ohio and WUAB split.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/te...le_050928.html 

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/index.html


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vox8940* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would somone be so kind to list which stations are broadcasting in HD right now and tips to pull them in.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Mike



I have the Terk HDTVa indoor antenna connected to a JVC H-DILA 52G786 and here are the stations I recieve in NW Medina:


D3-1 WKYC-HD

D3-2 WKYC-WX

D5-1 WEWS-DT

D8-1 WJW-DT


D17-1 WDLI-D1

D17-2 WDLI-D2

D17-3 WDLI-D3

D17-4 WDLI-D4 }religion


D19-1 WOIO-DT

D43-1 WUAB-TV

D43-2 TUBE (Music - non-comercial)

D50-1 WEAO-D1

D50-2 WEAO-D2

D61-1 WQHS-DT


----------



## kosar1985

I cant believe you pick up all those stations with an indoor antenna. I live in Medina too and I never picked those up with an indoor antenna.


----------



## RLucky82

I am in Liverpool and if I don't use the little amp that came with it it doesn't pick up anyting. I didn't expect all that either, imagine my supprise, well worth the $50


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vox8940* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I just got my new TV last night (Sony 34XBR960) and hooked it up to my antnenna mounted on the roof (2-story house). The TV has the built in ATSC tuner and works good. I received WOIO-DT in HD, but nothing else. I live in Akron, by the way, near Firestone Park.



If you can move that thing around, you should be able to get almost everyone else in the market. I'm in the old Northampton Township, and with an indoor, non-amplified antenna pointing out a 2nd story window, I get every full-power station in the Cleveland market aside from WKYC-DT with little problem.


I'm guessing the antenna was put up for analog, and not particularly calibrated or aimed. You should be pointing roughly at Parma, the local "antenna farm" area where all the Cleveland stations are located. The only other stations are those like WEAO-DT 50 Akron, which you should be able to get over there no matter where the antenna is pointed (their stick is in Copley, just north of Rolling Acres Mall, not that far from you).


WKYC-DT is a "problem child" because it is a low-VHF station, and subject to much more electrical interference. Even so, you should have a decent shot at it from Firestone Park, assuming you don't have large buildings or trees or something like that in the way between you and Parma.


The other thing I just thought of - WOIO-DT is a VHF station as well (high VHF on 10, WKYC-DT is on 2). If you don't have a UHF antenna up there, this may be why you have difficulty picking up the other stations in the market...which are all (digitally) on UHF.


WEWS-DT - 15

WJW-DT - 31

WUAB-DT - 28

etc.


----------



## vox8940

Last night I was getting WJW-HD during the Braves/Astros game - looked great! But then around 11:30 there was no signal. I was getting WKYC-HD during Jay and Conan (signal was about 58%). WEWS and WOIO signals were around 95%.

I'm pretty sure my antenna is getting all frequencies (VHF & UHF). I may just need to aim it better, like you said.

Do the Cleveland stations turn off their HD transmissions sometimes? I'm confused why WKYC was NOT there Wed. night, but was Thu. night.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vox8940* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do the Cleveland stations turn off their HD transmissions sometimes? I'm confused why WKYC was NOT there Wed. night, but was Thu. night.



All of the Cleveland market stations currently doing DT are 24/7 with their HD feed.


Unless, of course, the feed drops out due to technical problems - yes, I mean WEWS-DT!







They've had the most consistent problems of anyone in recent weeks, and for a while not long ago (look up this thread), they were off for a few days at a time.


WKYC may be a different situation. As a low-VHF station, it is somewhat more susceptible to not only electrical interference/noise, but also it's at the end of the band where out-of-town stations from hundreds of miles away can show up by what's called "tropoducting". This usually happens on warm summer afternoons, so that may not be what happened on Thursday night.


As a rule, channel 2 (where WKYC-DT is) is the worst place to be on the dial for both analog and digital TV, but it's more of a problem with the more precise needs of DTV. At some point, whenever analog TV goes away, WKYC will likely be on some other channel than 2, because the FCC is encouraging stations to land outside of the low-VHF channel range (2-6).


----------



## Tom in OH

Hookbill,

are u receiving "Ghost Whisperer" in DD 5.1 thru cable? I thought CBS Cleveland was sending DD but the symbol isn't showing up in the guide. Just curious, thx.

Tom


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> are u receiving "Ghost Whisperer" in DD 5.1 thru cable? I thought CBS Cleveland was sending DD but the symbol isn't showing up in the guide. Just curious, thx.
> 
> Tom



I believe NBC and Fox are the only two Cleveland stations passing DD.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Wow. I watched a few minutes of Smackdown last night on WUAB. Thank you channel 43 for multicasting and bringing me another channel that is absolutely unwatchable.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. I watched a few minutes of Smackdown last night on WUAB. Thank you channel 43 for multicasting and bringing me another channel that is absolutely unwatchable.



If there's any motion at ALL on 43-2, it's darn close to a low-bitrate Internet webcast.


I haven't had the "fortune" (!) of seeing its effect on 43-1 during an HD show.


Look at the bright side...at least they don't run this crap on WOIO, which has a lot more HD.


----------



## Phoenix2088

All stations except WJW are stretching non-HD programming now. Complete idiots running these stations.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All stations except WJW are stretching non-HD programming now. Complete idiots running these stations.



We've talked about this stretching in the past but I can't remember why it's a bad thing. If an SD show is upconverted on the high def channel, it seems better to stretch the show filling up the 16x9 shape. I'd rather watch a little stretching on the edges opposed to black or gray bars on the left and right.


How do these upconverted SD shows appear on your set Phoenix? Are u able to manually stretch an HD show to hide the bars?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All stations except WJW are stretching non-HD programming now. Complete idiots running these stations.



Add WEWS to the list - sort of. They can't make up their minds weather to stretch or not to stretch.


Example: 20/20 was in 4X3, but they turn on the stretch for the 11 PM news. When they switch the picture in and out of stretch (or form local to network) I can hear an audio glitch. Also I have seen on numerous occasions where they forgot to switch to local on the HD feed at 11 PM and I get to see a few seconds of the ABC west coast feed (i.e. the start of the 8 PM program at 11 PM our time).


If you think that is bad WOIO blew the start of a 4:15 Browns game on the HD feed. I had to switch to the analog (a complete accounting of that fiasco has been posted many pages ago in this thread).


It's obvious that the local stations are trying to run both the analog and digital feeds using the same master control technician. The digital feeds suffer due to the lack of attention.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Add WEWS to the list - sort of. They can't make up their minds weather to stretch or not to stretch.



And when WEWS-DT does stretch, at times it will not stretch all the way. It goes to about 15x9 instead of 16x9. This screws things up for those with 4x3 sets who are trying to "stretch down" to 4x3...since the original isn't full 16x9, it makes the "stretched down" picture look too slim.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you think that is bad WOIO blew the start of a 4:15 Browns game on the HD feed. I had to switch to the analog (a complete accounting of that fiasco has been posted many pages ago in this thread).



WOIO's only partially responsible for that. The other part is CBS. Since they can only have two HD paths running at the same time (the paths that are normally used by their prime time Eastern and Pacific feeds), the late game can't start in HD until whichever game it's sharing the path with is done.


WOIO's fault was that they clumsily stuck with the 1 PM HD game, and did not go to upconverted SD for the start of the HD Browns game. Yes, I said that right. They could have had the uninterrupted Browns start that way, then switched to HD whenever the 1 PM shared feed game ended and the HD feed started for the Browns.


I suspect this takes too much thought and manpower/energy, so they went the easy way. And this way, they'd probably have forgotten to switch into HD when the feed was available...but that's what I would have done.


----------



## Inundated

Hookbill mentioned this up thread a bit:


It does appear that Adelphia is putting up its simulcast channels for the analog channels (below 100) that aren't already being fed digitally.


However, my cable box won't tune to these 800-series channels, aside from the existing 803/804/805/806, etc. It says I'm not authorized (!).


The sub-100 channels that aren't already being sent digitally are still analog on their original positions.


I suspect that a similar switch is coming, though, to the one that moved analog 3/5/8/19/43 up to the 800's and put a digital 3/5/8/19/43 on the lower positions, on cable boxes.


----------



## paule123

Is anybody watching SNL in HD tonight? My audio receiver clicks when going from DD5.1 during SNL and back to 2.0 during commercial. Annoying. I don't notice this during Leno. Is this the first time WKYC is passing DD5.1?


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How do these upconverted SD shows appear on your set Phoenix? Are u able to manually stretch an HD show to hide the bars?



I always stretch the programming, but my SA3250 does a better job than most of the station's upconverters do. The only station that strecthes properly is WKYC because the picture is still pretty good. The other stations stretching makes the image quality very poor, especially WUAB.


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody watching SNL in HD tonight? My audio receiver clicks when going from DD5.1 during SNL and back to 2.0 during commercial. Annoying. I don't notice this during Leno. Is this the first time WKYC is passing DD5.1?




I was watching that last night but I didn't notice any clicking sound, but then I had a few beers


----------



## RLucky82

are there any games in HD - OTA today?


----------



## hookbill

yes.


----------



## paule123

Watching Browns/Bears WJW OTA and the 50 yard cam doesn't look too good. Almost looks like that cam is SD not HD. I can see compression artifacts around the players outlines, as if I was watching this game on DirecTV. Also see some "dancing grass" on the 50 yard cam.


----------



## Randy Mathis

I'm in the Chicago area and was checking to see if it was just here. This looks like EDTV.


----------



## kosar1985

what is up with the fox broadcast today as of 1:52 no hd


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what is up with the fox broadcast today as of 1:52 no hd



Due to a "Solar Transit Outage" Fox's satellite feed is not HD for a while. Hopefully HD will return in 20 minutes or so.


Certain times of the year the sun interferes with the satellite to ground transmission, and that's what's going on right now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Due to a "Solar Transit Outage" Fox's satellite feed is not HD for a while. Hopefully HD will return in 20 minutes or so.
> 
> 
> Certain times of the year the sun interferes with the satellite to ground transmission, and that's what's going on right now.



The upshot is that due to the way the sun lines up at this time of year, for a few days at this hour, roughly, the sun's energy "overwhelms" the energy coming from the satellite. And since the sun doesn't carry FOX...well...










Radio stations which carry satellite delivered programming at around this time, also have to deal with it. The time is not exactly the same, because it's a different time for different satellites and different parts of the country.


To get around it, stations have to either use a different satellite (which isn't in the same alignment at the same time, so it won't be affected at the same time), or a terrestrial feed. I think FOX has a fiber optic feed that they use.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody watching SNL in HD tonight? My audio receiver clicks when going from DD5.1 during SNL and back to 2.0 during commercial. Annoying. I don't notice this during Leno. Is this the first time WKYC is passing DD5.1?



Are any Cleveland HD stations sending DD 5.1 for sure? I checked the new show E-Ring on NBC and it was stereo and just checked the O.C. on Fox from 9/29 and it's not 5.1 either.


----------



## Inundated

FOX 8's Browns/Bears game is back in HD after the sun transit outage and halftime.


----------



## ScarletFever

I'm glad I found this forum, I just bought my HDTV Sony 60" this week and I wondered why it was flipping back & forth from HD to standard broadcast.


I noticed this week the best looking shows are Leno & Letterman (3 NBC & 19 WOIO). I've seen some HDTV on 5 WEWS and wasn't impressed but I'm glad to see this thread explaining all of this.


----------



## Tom in OH

HD on Fox is Back!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScarletFever* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed this week the best looking shows are Leno & Letterman (3 NBC & 19 WOIO). I've seen some HDTV on 5 WEWS and wasn't impressed but I'm glad to see this thread explaining all of this.



Welcome to the forum!


Check out Monday Night Football...that usually shows off ABC HD at its best.


The other factor here - NBC and CBS are 1080i and ABC is 720p. Your set may be native 1080i and look better that with that feed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are any Cleveland HD stations sending DD 5.1 for sure? I checked the new show E-Ring on NBC and it was stereo and just checked the O.C. on Fox from 9/29 and it's not 5.1 either.




NBC and FOX both broadcast primetime shows on 5.1.


You sure you have your settings right?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watching Browns/Bears WJW OTA and the 50 yard cam doesn't look too good. Almost looks like that cam is SD not HD. I can see compression artifacts around the players outlines, as if I was watching this game on DirecTV. Also see some "dancing grass" on the 50 yard cam.



Interesting. Outside of the outage around half time the broadcast has looked outstanding to me.


And I am 1080i native.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NBC and FOX both broadcast primetime shows on 5.1.
> 
> 
> You sure you have your settings right?



I'm going by the DD symbol that shows up in the info banner but it might not be accurate. The DD symbol lights up on HBO-HD and all the HD channels like HDNet, DiscoveryHD... but not the ota.


I haven't upgraded to surround yet(spent everything on video...) but will soon. Thx for verifying 5.1 for NBC and Fox.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We've talked about this stretching in the past but I can't remember why it's a bad thing. If an SD show is upconverted on the high def channel, it seems better to stretch the show filling up the 16x9 shape. I'd rather watch a little stretching on the edges opposed to black or gray bars on the left and right.



Tom,


For me, I can't stand the distraction of any form of stretching. When round things aren't round, I find the picture unwatchable. I much prefer the black bars.


The more the local station messes with the picture, the lower the picture quality.


All TV's give you at least one, if not more than one, stretching option. The options to unstretch are less common, and some, like the partial stretch that WEWS uses, cannot be corrected without cropping the picture top and bottom.


-Chris.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm going by the DD symbol that shows up in the info banner but it might not be accurate. The DD symbol lights up on HBO-HD and all the HD channels like HDNet, DiscoveryHD... but not the ota.
> 
> 
> I haven't upgraded to surround yet(spent everything on video...) but will soon. Thx for verifying 5.1 for NBC and Fox.



My processor initially flashes "DD" for all over the air digital stations. Then it shows DD 3-2-1 for Fox and NBC HD programs. Standard definition digital shows on Fox and NBC and all programs on other digital ota stations flashes "DD 2-0-0 and then shows "pl II-c" (pro logic II-cinema) (i.e., my processor uses pro logic II on DD 2.0.0 to simulate DD 5.1. Bottom line: All the digital stations show DD; however only the HD programs on Fox and NBC are 5.1. The satellite HD programs are all DD; however, the older movies may be only DD 2.0.0. You find the same things with DVD's.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My processor initially flashes "DD" for all over the air digital stations. Then it shows DD 3-2-1 for Fox and NBC HD programs. Standard definition digital shows on Fox and NBC and all programs on other digital ota stations flashes "DD 2-0-0 and then shows "pl II-c" (pro logic II-cinema) (i.e., my processor uses pro logic II on DD 2.0.0 to simulate DD 5.1. Bottom line: All the digital stations show DD; however only the HD programs on Fox and NBC are 5.1. The satellite HD programs are all DD; however, the older movies may be only DD 2.0.0. You find the same things with DVD's.



Thx for that explanation. I'm not sure why the ota doesn't show up in 5.1, and the sat HD channels do...more investigation needed. I'm glad to hear at least NBC and Fox are 5.1... makes the audio upgrade more worthwhile.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> For me, I can't stand the distraction of any form of stretching. When round things aren't round, I find the picture unwatchable. I much prefer the black bars.
> 
> 
> The more the local station messes with the picture, the lower the picture quality.
> 
> 
> All TV's give you at least one, if not more than one, stretching option. The options to unstretch are less common, and some, like the partial stretch that WEWS uses, cannot be corrected without cropping the picture top and bottom.
> 
> 
> -Chris.



If the picture quality is lower as a result of stretching, then I see your point. There's also the problem of uneven wear on crt and plasma tvs. Keeping contrast low can help but if you watch a lot of 4:3 on your 16:9 tv, the lines will start to show up very soon. Of course this would all be a moot point if everything was delivered in 16x9 HD but that won't be for awhile. ^_^


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only station that strecthes properly is WKYC because the picture is still pretty good. The other stations stretching makes the image quality very poor, especially WUAB.



WKYC fooled me last year with their stretch of "Scrubs". It didn't used to be broadcast in HD but was a good upconvert. I'm pretty sure it was full HD this year(no stretching).


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's also the problem of uneven wear on crt and plasma tvs. Keeping contrast low can help but if you watch a lot of 4:3 on your 16:9 tv, the lines will start to show up very soon. Of course this would all be a moot point if everything was delivered in 16x9 HD but that won't be for awhile. ^_^



This is a good point. My question would be: Should we expect the broadcasters to protect us from our own stupidity, or are we responsible for the care of our own TV?


For me, this is one of the reasons I bought a DLP TV.


Most people don't understand a fraction of what their electronics can do. That is certainly true for me and my cell phone. Perhaps the broadcasters, knowing that most people have no clue as to what the "aspect" button does, feel they are at a competitive disadvantage (or perhaps even legally liable for damage) if they don't fill the screen.


----------



## SteveC

My guess is that they just get tired of clueless callers asking why all their shows don't fill the screen of their brand new HDTV. Once they stretch the screen the number of calls probably drops down to nothing. I think the number of people who would prefer to see a non-distorted picture with black bars on the side is very small. Unfortunately I happen to be one of them. I've gotten so now that if it is a SD program, I just watch the analog channel on my old 32" TV.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

full stretch is cool with me since i can readjust it, but channel 5's stretch is so god awful bad. clearly, people in TV suck.


----------



## RLucky82

I like what fox8 often does, instead of stretching, they fill in the black bars with "FOX 8" banners







...then its up to you after that. simple soulution works perfect


----------



## Inundated

FOX 8 only uses those banners when they're running SD video on their HD-in-studio newscasts. When they run non-HD programming otherwise, it's not stretched and there are no "FOX 8" bars, which is fine with me.


I complained to WEWS about the funky stretch, but heard nothing back from them. I think they think it lessens the stretch enough to look less "flat" on 16x9 screens. But I'd rather make that choice myself.


----------



## jdswimm

I live in Tuscarawas County. I currently have Adelphia. They carry all of the Cleveland stations, plus Wheeling/Steubenville and WCMH Columbus. Our DMA is Cleveland.


WKYC was telling me that WTOV 9 out of Steubenville would be choice for Weather Plus. Honestly, I believe that, because we are closer to that market area. Our county is well beyond the Grade B signals. Any thoughts? WTOV told me that WX Plus wouldn't cross market lines.

WHO is wrong or right?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdswimm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Tuscarawas County. I currently have Adelphia. They carry all of the Cleveland stations, plus Wheeling/Steubenville and WCMH Columbus. Our DMA is Cleveland.
> 
> 
> WKYC was telling me that WTOV 9 out of Steubenville would be choice for Weather Plus. Honestly, I believe that, because we are closer to that market area. Our county is well beyond the Grade B signals. Any thoughts? WTOV told me that WX Plus wouldn't cross market lines.
> 
> WHO is wrong or right?



I watch WKYC's Weather Plus all the time. I see 5 day forcasts for such exotic palces as Detroit, Columbus and Cincinnatti. Tuscarawas County is definitly within that paramater (and also within the radar's range).


Signal grade has nothing to do with what market you are in. If Adeplhia is giving you WKYC-DT they could also give you Weather Plus. OTOH if all they carry is the SD/analog channel 3 then you are out of luck (on you TV anyway) You can always see WKYC's version of Westher Plus on your PC if you have broadband.
http://wkyc.com/weather/plus/ 

BTW I also have seen Weather Plus out of Pittsburgh's WPXI OTA. They do not have it streaming on the web the way WKYC does.


----------



## jdswimm

thanks for the info.. Yes, Adelphia does carry WKYC HD on Ch703, and WEWS HD on Ch705. Our Adelphia area picks up everything via OTA. Nothing is direct in this area expect the local access channel. WTOV covers this area somewhat better than the Cleveland stations. When Time Warner moves into this area next year. We have the same thing as Canton. Expect we have the Steubenvillle stations and WCMH Columbus.... WKYC also said it's Adelphia's decision to carry either Cleveland or Steubenville. BUT, you would think that they would carry WKYC because they carry 3.1.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Wow! WKYC-DT is hard to pick up for many here in Cuyahoga County yet Adelphia can get it way down there. I bet they have a relay up north where the signal is picked up.


I met someone many years ago who lived down there. He told me that the antennas that pick-up the Cleveland stations for the Dover cable system were located in Richfield! They used a terrestrial microwave link (this was in the late '70's). I'm willing to bet they use a similar set-up today, with fiber optic lines replacing the microwave.


----------



## jdswimm

On cable WKYC has signal break ups from time to time. Yes, you are right about the signal issue with that. With us being close to Pittsburgh. When I lived in Columbiana County TWCable carried KDKA and the picture was terrblie because WKYC DT 2. TWCable told me they pick it up in Salem OH, and different locations in Western PA.


I seen the cable headend over in Sugarcreek OH. About a 13 miles west of Dover/New Philly. It is large and has many antennas on the side of the tower. The station that was the worse picture down here is WTRF 7 Wheeling. You would think that would have good signal but it does it. Adelphia HD only carries WKYC, WEWS, and HBO SHOWTIME, and the movie nets. Sometime this month they are going add WNEO HD on CH 714. As for the direct links. Most the OTA stations on cable tend to break up all the time. So that kinda tells me that nothing is direct or microwaved down here. Even WCMH Columbus breaks up a lot. So that means everything is OTA antennas.For example WJW will get large white lines in it and goes off. WEWS has had some problems here in this area. With dark picture and lines and grainy picture.


----------



## rlockshin

Does anyone have any idea when WEWS and WOIO will be broadcasting in DD 5.1 sound? We are missing out on some great sporting events sounds. Fox's baseball gae sounds so real like.

Thanks


----------



## Inundated

I must have missed this, and don't know how long they've been doing it...


But the live shots from FOX 8's "SkyFOX" helicopter are now 16x9. I'm assuming (and it looks like) they're using an SD camera up there, but in 16x9...when they first started doing the HD newscasts, it was 4x3 with the "FOX 8" bars on each side.


Of course, they've been using SD 16x9 cameras for live shots from the field since the HD casts started.


----------



## Michael P 2341

JDSWIMM: I wonder if the SD locals from Dish Network or DirecTV look better than what your cable system offers? The only drawback is you would be stuck with only the Cleveland stations unless they initiate "significantly viewed status for stations like WCMH (I don't believe either carry Wheeling/Steubenville yet).


These white lines you are talking about, is that on the SD or HD version of the channels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any idea when WEWS and WOIO will be broadcasting in DD 5.1 sound? We are missing out on some great sporting events sounds. Fox's baseball gae sounds so real like.
> 
> Thanks



You can look forward to that happening on the 12th of Never.


Those two stations do not have very high priority on their sound advancements.


I'd like to just put in for my systems own Pro Logic II. It distributes the sound very well, even without 5.1.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> JDSWIMM: I wonder if the SD locals from Dish Network or DirecTV look better than what your cable system offers? The only drawback is you would be stuck with only the Cleveland stations unless they initiate "significantly viewed status for stations like WCMH (I don't believe either carry Wheeling/Steubenville yet).



I'd do a search, but I'd almost bet my lunch money that neither D* nor E* has LIL service for that market.


----------



## jdswimm

Michael P 2341: It only happens on the SD channels, on the analog cable. This only happens from time to time, cable. Dish or Direct does not carry Wheeling/Steubenville market yet. I heard maybe by end of year or first part 2006, for that market. All Cleveland and Wheeling/Steubenville stations are significantly viewed in the county. WCMH is only non significantly viewed station in this county. Both Direct and Dish have started to add significantly viewed stations in the Baltmore Market. So that might have with the Cleveland stations. Lets hope soon... Also sometimes the picture on WTRF 7 here looks like a digital look to it. Then it clears up..


----------



## TLaz

Any news regarding the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT? Their web sites states they hoped to get their antenna in its permanent position in spring/summer 2005.


As long as we're on it, any news regarding WBNX-DT?


----------



## jtscherne

There was a message back awhile that indicated that WVIZ was delayed. I don't remember the timeframe, but I'm sure the person who posted will come along.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any news regarding the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT? Their web sites states they hoped to get their antenna in its permanent position in spring/summer 2005.
> 
> ?


----------



## Michael P 2341

Did anybody else loose WOIO-DT yesterday? They must have changed their PSIP data becuase I was getting a solid 118 - 120 signal strength but no picture and sound. A delete & rescan fixed the problem. This is on an Echostar DVR 921.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anybody else loose WOIO-DT yesterday? They must have changed their PSIP data becuase I was getting a solid 118 - 120 signal strength but no picture and sound. A delete & rescan fixed the problem. This is on an Echostar DVR 921.



I'm having no problem with WOIO-DT right now, OTA via my USDigital receiver.


I also haven't rescanned it since well before yesterday, so I'm not sure it was a widespread PSIP issue. Perhaps something they did threw your E* receiver for a loop...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm having no problem with WOIO-DT right now, OTA via my USDigital receiver.
> 
> 
> I also haven't rescanned it since well before yesterday, so I'm not sure it was a widespread PSIP issue. Perhaps something they did threw your E* receiver for a loop...



WOIO-DT has been throwing loops at my 921 since I bought it. At first there were pink/green stripes in the picture. After that cleared up there is a chronic "chroma pulsation", especially strong when there is a lot of red content in the picture. These artifacts disappear on recordings of WOIO, so when it get too annoying to watch, I delay the broadcast by 3 seconds.


Any other 921 victims, I mean owners out there?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO-DT has been throwing loops at my 921 since I bought it. At first there were pink/green stripes in the picture. After that cleared up there is a chronic "chroma pulsation", especially strong when there is a lot of red content in the picture. These artifacts disappear on recordings of WOIO, so when it get too annoying to watch, I delay the broadcast by 3 seconds.



Hmm. If it is fine in the recording, it's DEFINITELY in the receiver, as it's able to record and display without a problem...


Anyway, unless they did something to the PSIP that my receiver didn't care about, I'm guessing they didn't. I haven't had to rescan any of the channels for a while.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any news regarding the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT? Their web sites states they hoped to get their antenna in its permanent position in spring/summer 2005.
> 
> 
> As long as we're on it, any news regarding WBNX-DT?



I've talked to Gary the Director of Engineering over at WVIZ and he said they were not able to get the tower issues resolved. Their next timeframe for launching the full power transmitter is in early 2006.


As for WBNX, the last time I spoke to the station manager (late spring-early summer), they still did not know when they are going to be broadcasting in digital. They have all the equipment in place, even for HD, but they are still waiting on the FCC to issue a construction permit. My guess is we won't be seeing WBNX going digital until the FCC deadline closes in.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmm. If it is fine in the recording, it's DEFINITELY in the receiver, as it's able to record and display without a problem...
> 
> 
> Anyway, unless they did something to the PSIP that my receiver didn't care about, I'm guessing they didn't. I haven't had to rescan any of the channels for a while.



If it's the receiver, why is the problem limited to just WOIO? Also I had a total of 4 different 921's due to hard drive failures, every one had problems with just WOIO.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've talked to Gary the Director of Engineering over at WVIZ and he said they were not able to get the tower issues resolved. Their next timeframe for launching the full power transmitter is in early 2006.



I'm not sure we ever figured out what that means..."tower issues". Is it the previous problem with Infinity Radio? I was under the impression that was all solved, legally. I'd have to assume it means they are having engineering issues at the North Royalton site.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If it's the receiver, why is the problem limited to just WOIO? Also I had a total of 4 different 921's due to hard drive failures, every one had problems with just WOIO.



There must be something inherent in the 921's ATSC tuner that doesn't get along with WOIO's encoding. This might be worth taking up with WOIO...if they gave a crap.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure we ever figured out what that means..."tower issues". Is it the previous problem with Infinity Radio? I was under the impression that was all solved, legally. I'd have to assume it means they are having engineering issues at the North Royalton site.



I'm guessing that it is still a legal issue with Infinity Radio.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There must be something inherent in the 921's ATSC tuner that doesn't get along with WOIO's encoding. This might be worth taking up with WOIO...if they gave a crap.



FWIW, I think it is possible a certain station can have certain problems with certain receivers. My SA8000HD gets audio dropouts only on live Fox Sports events with DD5.1 sound. It used to be pretty bad last year with the football, but not so much this year. I am noticing it a little bit on the MLB playoffs.


I don't get the audio dropouts watching the same games OTA on my Samsung SIR-T165.


I don't get the audio dropouts on Fox non-live material like "24" for instance, nor do I get the dropouts on DiscoveryHD which is DD5.1 all the time. It's a weird problem.


I'm convinced it's more of a crappy SA8000HD issue than a Fox issue. Besides, who would I complain to, and who would give a damn to do anything about it...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that it is still a legal issue with Infinity Radio.



That's why I can't figure it out, since we were told all of those issues were successfully negotiated. Gary Bluhm himself said that all that remained was to plan and construct the facility. (I can't remember where he said that...it was either here, or in an E-Mail to me that I shared here. He's been on this thread once or twice, but I can't remember if he addressed that here or not.) I can't see why things got unraveled.


Oh, well, as I said, I have WVIZ-DT on Adelphia, WEAO-DT OTA, and have no idea how much longer I'll live in the area, anyway. Heck, I could be gone by the time they get that thing up.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm convinced it's more of a crappy SA8000HD issue than a Fox issue. Besides, who would I complain to, and who would give a damn to do anything about it...



I'm with you on this one, BTW...I think it's the SA8000HD vs. Fox, and I'm also convinced the other problem is the OP's E* receiver. This all seems to be inexact science, and a few bits on the wrong place seems to affect different receivers in different ways.


For what it's worth, I've never heard Fox audio dropout on Adelphia 708 with the SA8000HD, but I'm only feeding it standard stereo (no 5.1 system at home). I also don't have any problems with any of the local OTA stations with my cheap USDigital box I bought at Wal-Mart a year or two back.


Oh, and for hookbill's benefit - I'm likely going to buy the new Fusion5HDTV USB box for my laptop. My laptop has a very high quality widescreen display, and the demos I've downloaded look fantastic. Since it's in front of my face anyway all the time, why not?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My laptop has a very high quality widescreen display, and the demos I've downloaded look fantastic. Since it's in front of my face anyway all the time, why not?



oooo, that makes me curious, what type display would that be? We're in the market for one of those w/s laptop models.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> oooo, that makes me curious, what type display would that be? We're in the market for one of those w/s laptop models.



I'll tell ya, the Toshiba Quosimo (sp?) has a drop dead gorgeous widescreen display. The thing looks as bright and crisp as a plasma. But they're not cheap - $2000 - $3000 if I remember correctly. I saw it at Beachwood CompUSA.


With that said, I just bought a new Dell Inspiron 6000 with a 15.4 widescreen and it's very nice. Basic model can be had for under $1000.


Dell also has the Inspiron 9300 with 17" TrueLife display - I beleive this would be comparable to the Toshiba. They might have this at the Dell kiosk in Beachwood Place.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll tell ya, the Toshiba Quosimo (sp?) has a drop dead gorgeous widescreen display. The thing looks as bright and crisp as a plasma. But they're not cheap - $2000 - $3000 if I remember correctly. I saw it at Beachwood CompUSA.



Thx, that's what I needed, a few more examples to check out. I've seen some w/s HP's that looked nice but haven't seen the Tosh. I went to BestBuy the other day and they didn't have any w/s laptops on display - surprising.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thx, that's what I needed, a few more examples to check out. I've seen some w/s HP's that looked nice but haven't seen the Tosh. I went to BestBuy the other day and they didn't have any w/s laptops on display - surprising.



I don't have the model drooled about above...it's more modest







Just a Satellite Pro M45-S331 (I think). I don't know if they've moved on to the next series of models.


It has the "TrueBrite" screen and is 15.4", widescreen display. The demo clips from the Fusion website were great. I haven't bought the device yet, so I can't comment on the actual unit.


It's supposedly out this week or next...check out the threads here in the Home Theatre Computers section, just above the HDTV threads.


----------



## Snowlock

hm. Ok, I'm a bit new to HD so I'm still having a bit of a problem. If anyone knows any info, please msg me.


I am running a Fusion5 card in my HTPC, I had assumed that I would be able to pick up HD channels with this, though that is beginning to be more and more dubious.


I have Adelphia cable here in Cleveland which obviously broadcasts HD channels, just hooking up the cable to the card gains me nothing (HD-wise). I had been hoping to get the signal in from several of the upper run of channels (mainly the discovery channels, which offer HD broadcast) But the only thing which comes in under my HD settings, are the music channels. No video channels.


Am I doing something wrong or is it just not possible to get HD from Adelphia thru a HTPC?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Snowlock* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hm. Ok, I'm a bit new to HD so I'm still having a bit of a problem. If anyone knows any info, please msg me.
> 
> 
> I am running a Fusion5 card in my HTPC, I had assumed that I would be able to pick up HD channels with this, though that is beginning to be more and more dubious.
> 
> 
> I have Adelphia cable here in Cleveland which obviously broadcasts HD channels, just hooking up the cable to the card gains me nothing (HD-wise). I had been hoping to get the signal in from several of the upper run of channels (mainly the discovery channels, which offer HD broadcast) But the only thing which comes in under my HD settings, are the music channels. No video channels.
> 
> 
> Am I doing something wrong or is it just not possible to get HD from Adelphia thru a HTPC?



I haven't tried it, but it should work. The Fusion 5 card supports QAM256 decoding, which is exactly what Adelphia uses for its HD channels.


You should be able to get all of the local channels from Adelphia without difficulty using your Fusion 5 card. Other channels, however, are probably encrypted and the Fusion 5 card will not be able to access those. This would include all of the "HD Plus" channels - HDNet, InHD, ESPN, Discovery, etc. So don't expect those to work.


The QAM capability of the Fusion 5 cards are quite new, and there may still be some bugs to work out. Try asking about this in the HDPC forum - someone there will probably know a lot more about it.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

[RANT]


I'm getting really frustrated with our local broadcasters. Why did I bother to buy an HD set when they won't even FLIP the DAMN SWITCH over to HD for their primetime shows?


Cold Case a week ago (but not this week), Without A Trace last Thursday, and Alias last Thursday, all came across in *glorious Standard Definition* over Cleveland's ABC and CBS HD channels.


The networks spend a lot of money on these shows. The viewers spent a lot of money acquiring these sets. The stations spent a lot of money on HD and digital broadcast equipment. So why do they waste all of it by forgetting to FLIP the DAMN SWITCH!?


[/RANT]


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> [RANT]
> 
> 
> I'm getting really frustrated with our local broadcasters. Why did I bother to buy an HD set when they won't even FLIP the DAMN SWITCH over to HD for their primetime shows?
> 
> 
> Cold Case a week ago (but not this week), Without A Trace last Thursday, and Alias last Thursday, all came across in *glorious Standard Definition* over Cleveland's ABC and CBS HD channels.
> 
> 
> The networks spend a lot of money on these shows. The viewers spent a lot of money acquiring these sets. The stations spent a lot of money on HD and digital broadcast equipment. So why do they waste all of it by forgetting to FLIP the DAMN SWITCH!?
> 
> 
> [/RANT]



WEWS was obviously having signal dropout problems on their HD network feed during ALIAS (this happens a lot on this station during bad weather, though there seemed to be no reason for it last Thursday) - they switched to the SD feed until it was fixed; after they switched back to HD, the end of Alias and Night Stalker seemed to be fine.


You're absoultely right about WOIO - either their automation is totatly screwed up or they have a MCO asleep at the switch - you can almost count on them fogetting to flip the switch for at least one segment a night (and sometimes entire shows). Last night, most of CSI Miami and the first half of King of Queens, for example. And what's weird is last night, they did flip WUAB over to HD at 8, but not WOIO!


They didn't have ANY HD on Sunday night for 2 or 3 weeks in a row - this could be due to football overruns and the fact that they can't locally delay the HD feed, but my understanding is that the CBS prime-time HD network should start after the 4PM National HD game ends, and WOIO's always run that game, so this doesn't really make sense.


And what's worse, is that their stretched upconvert is totally unwatchable - WKYC's, while making everyone look fat, at least looks clean. WEWS's half-stretch is somewhat tolerable. Fox8 is the only one that does it right.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The QAM capability of the Fusion 5 cards are quite new, and there may still be some bugs to work out. Try asking about this in the HDPC forum - someone there will probably know a lot more about it.



As mentioned, I'm considering getting the Fusion USB HDTV tuner, which also supports QAM. I believe folks have gotten it (pre-production) to work with unencrypted QAM channels.


But no card or tuner will pick up the encrypted QAM channels, which need to be unscrambled at the HD cable box. If you get QAM working, it'll likely be only the local OTA channels and maybe one or two others. Still worth it for me, though, if I get the Fusion tuner.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And what's worse, is that their stretched upconvert is totally unwatchable - WKYC's, while making everyone look fat, at least looks clean. WEWS's half-stretch is somewhat tolerable. Fox8 is the only one that does it right.



There's a reason for this - all of the stations except for WOIO actually have digital equipment, even in SD. WKYC opened its new "digital broadcast center" a couple or three years ago. WEWS did some upgrades fairly recently, as I recall. And WJW obviously has the equipment, as they broadcast local news in HD from the studio.


Meanwhile, WOIO is running off of old, awful analog tape machines and poor cameras. They won't look any better until they throw all that stuff off the top of the building at Reserve Square and get digital equipment.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, WOIO is running off of old, awful analog tape machines and poor cameras. They won't look any better until they throw all that stuff off the top of the building at Reserve Square and get digital equipment.



...maybe we could start up an HD collection fund... ^_^


I might pay a few bucks to watch that old equipment get thrown off the building...


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, WOIO is running off of old, awful analog tape machines and poor cameras. They won't look any better until they throw all that stuff off the top of the building at Reserve Square and get digital equipment.



But even their SD upconvert on network-originated material is very bad - poor resolution, grainy. and people seem fatter than they do with the stretches on the other stations (with the possible exception of WKYC). Furthermore, like WKYC, they insist on using the local-stretch-upconvert on SD network shows during prime-time when a pillarboxed-network-upconvert is available (which is a MUCH better quality upconvert, stretching issues aside). WEWS, on the other hand, uses the pillarbox-network-upconverted feed on SD shows when it is available (i.e., during prime time).


EDIT: I guess the thinking is that they don't want to be responsible for damaging people's plasma/RP sets with burn-in, so they play it safe by stretching everything.


----------



## hookbill

WJW HD is not on the air via Adelphia Cable. OTA people, are you receiving a signal? This is at 6:30 am.


----------



## hookbill

Must have been down temporarily. It was back up within 20 minutes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Must have been down temporarily. It was back up within 20 minutes.



Must have missed it, as it's there now.


----------



## Inundated

Did anyone else just lose ALL Adelphia service, including HSI, for about 15 minutes?


It's back, at least now...


----------



## Inundated

And the HD channels had no sound.


So, I rebooted the box, and it came back with my "settop not being authorized for use". Wha?


EDIT: just noting that it finally "kicked in", and everything SEEMS to be working again, including sound on the HD channels. Arrgh, I hate Adelphia!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And the HD channels had no sound.
> 
> 
> So, I rebooted the box, and it came back with my "settop not being authorized for use". Wha?
> 
> 
> EDIT: just noting that it finally "kicked in", and everything SEEMS to be working again, including sound on the HD channels. Arrgh, I hate Adelphia!



FWIW, I've gotten that message before too. Usually I just do a second reboot and everything is OK.


Maybe they are getting the digital channels ready?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FWIW, I've gotten that message before too. Usually I just do a second reboot and everything is OK.
> 
> 
> Maybe they are getting the digital channels ready?



That's actually what I thought, too. When the box first came back, it only tuned to an odd set of channels...2...7...9. (?) But it's OK now. (Oddly enough, the channels missing were the digital SD channels - 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8!)


Adelphia told me, when I called to cancel a service appointment tomorrow, that the appointment had already been cancelled automatically. They said there was an "area problem", and they fixed it, so they automatically cancelled any service appointments made because of the problem in question.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia told me, when I called to cancel a service appointment tomorrow, that the appointment had already been cancelled automatically. They said there was an "area problem", and they fixed it, so they automatically cancelled any service appointments made because of the problem in question.



I never want to take a chance at missing a shot at Adelphia, so here goes. YOU had to call THEM and THEY informed YOU that your appointment was already cancelled.


What if you had waited on the tech all day? I just wonder if anyone would have called?


Adelphia.....still batteling to be the worst in cable!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never want to take a chance at missing a shot at Adelphia, so here goes. YOU had to call THEM and THEY informed YOU that your appointment was already cancelled.



Oh, when I called and set up the appointment - because, by the way, they told me they had no other calls about any problems in the area! - the customer service woman told me to call later if it started working again.


(This was after she asked me if I was near Port Clinton. Huh? They apparently had a problem in Port Clinton. I thought the daytime CSRs were in Cleveland, and presumably knew suburban Akron from Port Cllnton.)


At times like this, I don't know if I can hang in with Adelphia long enough to see them being taken over by TWC. Maybe I'll get one of those Canadian dishes...


----------



## flatiron

FWIW, According to the FCC web site (Second Round Channel Elections), WKYC has selected Ch. 17 (with Ch 32 as alternate) for its post-transition digital channel.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=73195 


Ch 17 makes sense, because WDLI/Canton will go with 39 and WTOL/Toledo will go back to their analog channel 11, but isn't there a LPTV on Ch 32 in Cleveland? Maybe they mean 31 (which will be vacated by WJW).


----------



## TLaz

WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT will be changing formats in the next few days. HD programming will only be transmitted during prime time. During the day, 3 SD multicast channels will be presented.


I hope WVIZ-DT gets its full powered signal on the air soon and that they continue to transmit the full PBS HDTV schedule.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ch 17 makes sense, because WDLI/Canton will go with 39 and WTOL/Toledo will go back to their analog channel 11, but isn't there a LPTV on Ch 32 in Cleveland? Maybe they mean 31 (which will be vacated by WJW).



If they kept 32, the LPTVer (WRAP-LP, if I recall) would have to move. I heard they might go with 31 as well, but I don't know if that was the intent. It doesn't make much difference as far as WJW goes, if they're moving off 31 to 8.


The bad news in either case - we're stuck with WKYC-DT on 2 until analog gets turned off, which appears likely to be mid-2009 at this point.


Sorry to hear about the WNEO/WEAO changes, but I get WVIZ-DT off of Adelphia, so it doesn't really bug me.


----------



## Inundated

WEAO-DT 50.1 is no longer running the PBS HD feed, at least during the day. Right now, it's an SD upconvert of WEAO analog...the same as 50.2 always has been.


I don't have sound out of my OTA box right now, so I didn't hear it, but it looks like they're putting up a "Kids" subchannel on 10/31. This may even be locally put together, since the turnkey PBS Kids service is no longer available to affiliates...it turned into the "Sprout" cable/satellite service.


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FWIW, According to the FCC web site (Second Round Channel Elections), WKYC has selected Ch. 17 (with Ch 32 as alternate) for its post-transition digital channel.
> 
> http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=73195
> 
> 
> Ch 17 makes sense, because WDLI/Canton will go with 39 and WTOL/Toledo will go back to their analog channel 11, but isn't there a LPTV on Ch 32 in Cleveland? Maybe they mean 31 (which will be vacated by WJW).




Where can you find a listings of all the stations apps.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where can you find a listings of all the stations apps.



Go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/ 


Click on "TV Query" - Enter station call letters or city-of-license/state - click "Submit Data". On the resulting list, you can click on either the TV or DT listing. Then bring up "Application List", located under the station technical parameters. The applications will be listed in reverse chronological order. Look for a file number starting with "BSRECT", meaning Second Round Election (all channel-election-related apps should end with "ECT"). Click on "Application" under "Details" to bring up the application.


Hope this helps.


----------



## hoops10

@flatiron: The website you listed, if I wanted to look up WKBN in Youngstown to see when their digital signal will come online, how would I do that? Thanks.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hoops10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> @flatiron: The website you listed, if I wanted to look up WKBN in Youngstown to see when their digital signal will come online, how would I do that? Thanks.



The FCC site shows a Construction Permit issued for WKBN-DT 41 - so they have permission from the FCC to go live , but their digital signal is being held up by other issues - money issues or dispute with tower owner - I forget which. (this has been discussed on this thread and the Youngstown thread).


----------



## RussTC3

Hi everyone, I'm new here and went back a few pages, but honestly didn't want to read through all 100+ pages.


I have a 27 inch FS (unfortunately) Samsung HDTV I purchased a few years ago. I just now picked up a receiver (the Accurian) and will pick up an antenna in a few days. For right now I'm using an indoor antenna I found laying around.


Here is my question. I can only pick up 4 stations so far:

WEWS-DT - 5.1 (60-65 signal strength)

WJW-DT - 8.1 (58-65 signal strength)

WDLI-DT - 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 and 17.4 (70-80 signal strength)

WEAO-DT - 50.1 and 50.2 (70-80 signal strength)


My question pertains to WEWS. I was watching it tonight in 16x9 and their was a litle bit of the counter visable at the top of the screen where the video ends and the bars begin. Is that always going to be like that? I could stretch the image (my TV seems to do a great job at that) but I don't want to. I don't mind the bars and I don't like missing out on some of the picture. Is this problem occuring because of WEWS? And if so, is it always going to be there? It's kinda annoying.


I was also watching Poker Championship earlier, and it was telling me the picture was HDTV (highlighted) I hope that wasn't the case, becuase it didn't look any better than what I get on my Dish.


I picked up one more station early this morning: WJW-DT FOX. I'm watching it right now, and they have the pregame show on. Quick question, is this in HD? Because it looks REALLY nice, but titantv.com says that it's not being broadcast in HD. If it isn't, I'm impressed, and can't wait to see what the game looks like.


All of this with an indoor antenna (The FOX tower is about 40M away). I think this HDTV thing is worth it.









_Edited to add WJW-DT_


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My question pertains to WEWS. I was watching it tonight in 16x9 and their was a litle bit of the counter visable at the top of the screen where the video ends and the bars begin. Is that always going to be like that? I could stretch the image (my TV seems to do a great job at that) but I don't want to. I don't mind the bars and I don't like missing out on some of the picture. Is this problem occuring because of WEWS? And if so, is it always going to be there? It's kinda annoying.



If you're talking about the little "video noise" at the top, that's pretty standard with OTA HDTV. Some boxes/tuners handle it better than others, and it's different on some channels than others.


The biggest problem with WEWS is that their stretch isn't "exact" (on upconverted SD) to 16x9. It's more like 15x9 or 14x9.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All of this with an indoor antenna (The FOX tower is about 40M away). I think this HDTV thing is worth it.



Curious...where are you, in the area? 40 miles puts you out a ways, but it'd be nice to know which end of the area you're on.


----------



## RussTC3

I'm in the Massillon area, 44646.


So is FOX Sunday right now being broadcasted in True HD, or is it just upconverted?


Thanks for the response.


----------



## Tom in OH

yup, looks good too (720P)


helpful site for HD football:

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/


----------



## RussTC3

Looks good, but considering how small my TV is (27 inch FS) I'm pretty sure it would a lot better with a bigger screen, something like at least a 30 inch WS.


Oh well. Still looks good.


----------



## Inundated

Nearly all FOX NFL games are in true HD. They do up to 6 games each Sunday, and if there's a 7th game, it might get upconverted in SD widescreen.


CBS, which has the AFC rights and shows the most Browns games, only does 3 HD games, and since the Browns are not, uhh, that great this year...there's no guarantee we'll see many more HD games for the Browns this year.


The Browns game is on FOX 8 today because the network follows the road team. So since the Lions are an NFC team on the road, FOX carries the game. And that's why the Browns are always carried on CBS on the road (except for any ESPN or ABC games).


----------



## RussTC3

Just curious, how do you know what signal is being broadcast and if my HD is displaying the right resolution (1080i instead of 480p). Like I said, my tv is a little old, but not terribly old:
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/n...771HFX%252fXAA 


Unfortunately, I think I purchased it right as HDMI/DVI started to come on to the scene. Oh well, what did I know?


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT will be changing formats in the next few days. HD programming will only be transmitted during prime time. During the day, 3 SD multicast channels will be presented.



There doesn't seem to be any PBS-HD during prime-time either.


This really sucks for those of us too far out to get WVIZ's flea-powered transmitter on Brookpark Rd. Even though a lot of stuff was endlessly repeated, I enjoyed many of the programs on the PBS-HD channel.


I wonder how many more months (years?) before WVIZ goes full-power from N. Royalton?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I think I purchased it right as HDMI/DVI started to come on to the scene. Oh well, what did I know?



I wouldn't worry too much about it...from the link, it looks like it does up to 1080i. If your tuner is outputting 1080i to the TV, it upconverts everything else (720p, 480i SD, etc.) to 1080i. I'm assuming you're feeding the TV with a component input, if you don't have DVI/HDMI. That does HD with no problem.


The various stations and networks have different resolutions for HD:


NBC (WKYC): 1080i

ABC (WEWS): 720p

CBS (WOIO): 1080i

FOX (WJW): 720p

UPN (WUAB): 1080i

WB, I don't know which they use, but WBNX here isn't even on the air digitally (HD or SD), so for Northeast Ohio it's "0".










The cable/satellite networks also vary between 720p and 1080i.


Again, it makes little difference, as HD tuners/etc. convert automatically between them, and scale them to whatever output's going to your monitor. So, with your 1080i set, you can watch FOX or ABC at 720p, and not even realize it.


----------



## Inundated

Posted by someone using the screen name PBS4549 here on AVS Forum, in the Youngstown thread, who seems to know what they're talking about:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are correct. WNEO-DT and WEAO-DT (45 and 50) have temporarily discontinued our HD service. This is a technical and legal issue. When we have the technical problems resolved (aiming for November 5) we'll return with three channels from midnight until 7pm, and a HD and SD channel from 7pm until midnight. Channel 1 will be our HD service. Channel 2 will remain as our digital rebroadcast of our analog service. Channel 3 will be our Information & Education service (INFOTV), blending CPB/Annenberg programs with rebroadcasts of PBS prime-time shows and school age kids shows. Channel 4 will be The Ohio Channel, which provides live coverage of the Ohio House and Senate, committee hearings and government issues, along with public affairs programs produced by PBS stations around Ohio.
> 
> We're sorry that we've been forced to temporarily drop the HD channel. It will return as quickly as we can resolve our switcher issues.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any PBS-HD during prime-time either.
> 
> 
> This really sucks for those of us too far out to get WVIZ's flea-powered transmitter on Brookpark Rd. Even though a lot of stuff was endlessly repeated, I enjoyed many of the programs on the PBS-HD channel.
> 
> 
> I wonder how many more months (years?) before WVIZ goes full-power from N. Royalton?



This weekend for the first time I caught the same program being broadcast on WVIZ-DT as WVIZ-TV. This was at the same time that WEAO was not carrying PBS HD. This led me to belileve the PBS HD network is no longer on or at least no longer a 24/7 operation.



> Quote:
> My question pertains to WEWS. I was watching it tonight in 16x9 and their was a litle bit of the counter visable at the top of the screen where the video ends and the bars begin.



I see that too, but no always. You see those "dots and dashes" whenever the local station is broadcasting a SD feed stretched into 16x9. When a true HD feed from a network is broadast the top of the picture is a clean, straight line. Sometimes WEWS will switch from true HD into stretch at the end of the 10 PM program, since they always broadcast the 11 PM news in stretch. I always readjust any 16x9 picture into 4x3 whenever I see the "dots and dashes" (I'm watching digital OTA on a 27" Sony analog set via S-video). I will watch a true 16x9 broadcast in letterbox, since there is no distortion of the images, but when the broadcasters use the stretch mode it makes everyone look fat, I have to vertically stretch the image back to 4x3 to get a visually appealing image on my screen.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This weekend for the first time I caught the same program being broadcast on WVIZ-DT as WVIZ-TV. This was at the same time that WEAO was not carrying PBS HD. This led me to belileve the PBS HD network is no longer on or at least no longer a 24/7 operation.



I've read in other threads here that PBS HD is still 24/7, but they are running a lot of repeats. Something about rights issues with programming? Maybe the folks holding the rights to the stuff getting repeated on PBS HD are asking for more money.


Anyway, whatever it is, the cost of PBS HD has apparently gone up a lot, and the content repeats a lot more, so many stations are bailing out.


I know I've seen that "Mustard" children's show a lot on PBS HD...it seems to be on every time I tune in.


----------



## flatiron

According to a posting in the Youngstown thread by Mr. Don Freeman, Director of Programming and Operations for WNEO/WEAO, starting (he hopes) around November 5, there will be PBS-HD on 50.1 and WEAO-SD (analog mirror) on 50.2 (as before) from 7PM to midnight, and from midnight to 7PM, there will be 3 SD multicast channels only (WEAO-SD, INFOTV (Information & Education Service) Channel, and The Ohio Channel).


This link explains some of the issues with PBS-HD: http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0517hdtv.shtml 


While I am not thrilled with these changes, at least we will have PBS-HD for 5 hours/day, and the linked article states that there should be fewer repeats.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to a posting in the Youngstown thread by Mr. Don Freeman, Director of Programming and Operations for WNEO/WEAO...(snip)



Do folks just skip my posts here?









http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6411413 


Anyway, at the time I read the message, I didn't know it was Mr. Freeman posting...


----------



## Michael P 2341

I'm seeing more "commercials" on WVIZ then ever before. It's getting to the point where all they have to do is make a "funding provided by..." tag and then run the same ads that are run on commercial TV. If you tune in after the tag you may think you are watching a commercial station.


I'm not complaining about the ads. It just appears to me that the distinction between comercial and non-commercial TV is fading.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

This is kinda OT, but can someone tell me why tax dollars are spent on public broadcasting? Does it really benefit anyone anymore or provide a service thats unique?


----------



## Michael P 2341

Public funding for public broadcasting depends on the current make-up in congress. The more liberals in office the more $$$ go to PBS.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I have a technical question about this forum. Whenever I post a message the page number jumps back 62 pages. For example as I type this the current page is 185, yet after I hit post quick reply I'm on page 123.


Here is "old" page 123: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...page=123&pp=20 


Here is "new" page 123:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...00#post6417700 


Are old posts being deleted, or are more posts per page being displayed?


Just curious.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Public funding for public broadcasting depends on the current make-up in congress. The more liberals in office the more $$$ go to PBS.



Well lets not screw this thread up by getting political.




But does anyone see a purpose to PBS right now? If we shut it down today, would there be any dissapointment by tv viewers. The only thing I can see PBS being good for is for creating jobs.


----------



## rlockshin

i lost my subscription


----------



## Inundated

Attention, anyone who's played with Adelphia's QAM - is there a guide somewhere to the QAM channels in the clear for a tuner?


I just got my USB HDTV box today and have been playing with it, and have been able to pick up the various network affiliates, but not consistently. I think I have to play with it a bit more...


Oh, for hookbill, my official entry into the HDTV world...


A screen cap of FOX 8's 5 PM show...











And a screen cap of the World Series tonight...pre-game show...


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm seeing more "commercials" on WVIZ then ever before. It's getting to the point where all they have to do is make a "funding provided by..." tag and then run the same ads that are run on commercial TV. If you tune in after the tag you may think you are watching a commercial station.
> 
> 
> I'm not complaining about the ads. It just appears to me that the distinction between comercial and non-commercial TV is fading.



I somewhat agree but the ads are atleast regulated. So no worries about anoying content and no need to worry about spilling my beer







(again) as I search for the remote to hit the mute button.


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is kinda OT, but can someone tell me why tax dollars are spent on public broadcasting? Does it really benefit anyone anymore or provide a service thats unique?



I believe it does! No, the service does not seem as different as it used to be. but at the heart of PB is where uniqueness lies, Nowere else can i get comercial free educational programming. The only thing that comes close (for me anyways) is the Science Channel, and I am not spending 80+ dollars a month just for one station.


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well lets not screw this thread up by getting political.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But does anyone see a purpose to PBS right now? If we shut it down today, would there be any dissapointment by tv viewers. The only thing I can see PBS being good for is for creating jobs.



I would be dissapointed! what the hell kind of question is that


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RLucky82* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would be dissapointed! what the hell kind of question is that



Seconded.

Plus I just now got a HDTV receiver, it would suck if I never got to experience some of PBS's programs in HD. I hear theirs are among the best.

*Inundated*, what model is that HD USB? And how does it perform?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I'm asking this in all seriousness. I can't get WVIZ, but I can pick up 49 (50) out of Akron. I haven't seen anything worth watching on it.


It just seems to me that the History channel, news networks, and other informational/educational channels cover.


Just a question, would you vote to get rid of PBS if your taxes could go down 5 bucks a month, which is 60 a year? I'd drop it.


----------



## ajstan99

In the interest in getting back on-topic:


There are approximately 75 million US households:
http://www.census.gov/prod/1/pop/p25-1129.pdf 


PBS currently receives $387 million in federal funding (Article also includes left/right perspectives):
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/media.../cpb_6-21.html 


Using those numbers, PBS costs a little over $5 per year per household, although one would think that the merchandising revenue of all the children's characters alone could pay for the whole thing. Good stuff for adults and kids and I just turn off the political stuff that annoys me.


Now, back to reception issues. I can't get WVIZ 26.1 OTA, 50.1 is sporadic and unreliable, and it will be great when the real WVIZ tower goes live. How 'bout you?


----------



## kosar1985

Does anyone know what is going on with D* guide?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Inundated*, what model is that HD USB? And how does it perform?


 http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/HDTV5usb.aspx 


It looks beautiful...as you can see from the screen shots above (I reduced them in size so they wouldn't take forever to load). It looks fantastic on my Toshiba "TrueBrite" widescreen laptop...and makes the downconverted HD I've been watching on my 32" analog set look sick.


That's the good news.


The tuner software is the buggiest piece of computer software I've seen in 15 years. I'm almost afraid to change channels, for fear it will dump...and the software/drivers seem to be more unstable as the signal goes below 80%. (So as you might guess, I'm having trouble with WKYC and WOIO, though WKYC has come in more often than it has on the other OTA tuner.) I'm not sure how the software is still this unstable over time, but it has. Check out the Fusion threads in Home Theater Computers here on AVSForum for more.


I'm still glad I bought the thing, though. I've worked around most of its problems, it hangs in there if you have a strong signal (well, except for that bug where it crashes when FOX and the local affiliates switch back and forth between DD2.0 and 5.1 sound) and I can only hope that A) the software will eventually become more stable or B) third-parties will step in with more stable software. A guy here on AVSForum is, as you read this, fixing his WatchHDTV program to work with the F5USB (with some help from me







).


Oh, and definitely on topic for this forum - one of its more egregious bugs is that the software crashes 100% of the time when you tune in WDLI-DT (17.1-4/DT 39). Thankfully, I never watch that channel and can delete it from the channel list.


It also works with Adelphia QAM, though the current version has a bug where it will forget scanned in PSIPs from the local OTA channels, after you tune in the first one.


Told you the thing was buggy! If you don't have patience to work around it or wait, you might wanna wait it out.


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm asking this in all seriousness. I can't get WVIZ, but I can pick up 49 (50) out of Akron. I haven't seen anything worth watching on it.
> 
> 
> It just seems to me that the History channel, news networks, and other informational/educational channels cover




well I don't get the history channel, discovery or science channel. I would have to say that PBS inspired this type of programming. However just before this "legal issue" there was a great week long program on DNA and I was looking forward to watching all of the repeats. and I have only been in the HD viewing for a few weeks myself but it was well worth it for me


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attention, anyone who's played with Adelphia's QAM - is there a guide somewhere to the QAM channels in the clear for a tuner?
> 
> 
> I just got my USB HDTV box today and have been playing with it, and have been able to pick up the various network affiliates, but not consistently. I think I have to play with it a bit more...
> 
> 
> Oh, for hookbill, my official entry into the HDTV world...
> 
> 
> A screen cap of FOX 8's 5 PM show...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a screen cap of the World Series tonight...pre-game show...




Screen caps look good. Congratulations on getting an HDTV. Sorry it took so long to respond but I haven't been getting my emails about new entries on this link


----------



## hookbill

Off topic, but Bill still hasn't shaved his head and I've noticed they've stopped talking about it.


Frankly, I don't blame him. If I said it or not, I wouldn't shave my head either.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Bill still hasn't shaved his head and I've noticed they've stopped talking about it.
> 
> 
> Frankly, I don't blame him. If I said it or not, I wouldn't shave my head either.



I could of sworn I heard him say last week that he is going to do it on the air Nov 3 or 4.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attention, anyone who's played with Adelphia's QAM - is there a guide somewhere to the QAM channels in the clear for a tuner?



I haven't seen a guide, but I can tell you what I have found.


The local HD channels are on:


105-3 NBC

105-5 ABC

105-8 FOX

113-1 PBS

113-2 CBS


The analog locals are digitized and rebroadcast on the subchannels of channel 84.


I also receive the digital music channels: 80-(21-40) and 93-(21-45).


Channel 88-2 will tell you what's on PPV.


Other channels are hit or miss, depending on if Adelphia is having problems or running a promo. Currently something called LOGO is in the clear on 90-13. I will sometimes pick up in the middle of someone's PPV broadcast on a subchannel of 75 or 76.


Bottom line is that there is not really much there. I find the OTA broadcast has better picture quality, so I usually leave my tuner setup that way.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Off topic, but Bill still hasn't shaved his head and I've noticed they've stopped talking about it.
> 
> 
> Frankly, I don't blame him. If I said it or not, I wouldn't shave my head either.



I've been hearing that he intends to do it, but I'm confused. I thought the bet was he'd shave it IF the Indians made the playoffs. Well, they didn't make the playoffs, so why does he have to shave his head?


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been hearing that he intends to do it, but I'm confused. I thought the bet was he'd shave it IF the Indians made the playoffs. Well, they didn't make the playoffs, so why does he have to shave his head?



I think it had to do with them finishing so many games above .500 which they did. I think 5 or so.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been hearing that he intends to do it, but I'm confused. I thought the bet was he'd shave it IF the Indians made the playoffs. Well, they didn't make the playoffs, so why does he have to shave his head?



He said if the Indians finished over .500 he would shave his head. Not so many games, just over 500. They did that by plenty.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I could of sworn I heard him say last week that he is going to do it on the air Nov 3 or 4.



That would make sense. Sweep month, build ratings.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bottom line is that there is not really much there. I find the OTA broadcast has better picture quality, so I usually leave my tuner setup that way.



Yeah, and I do that, too, upstairs...but downstairs I don't have the antenna shot out to Parma like I do upstairs. I have an indoor antenna, and probably am not going to bother putting up an outdoor antenna until I eventually move. I'll probably bring the indoor antenna down here and shoot it off the deck, and see if I can duplicate what I get upstairs.


The buggy software with this card means that QAM tuning is hit and miss. If you scan, you MAY pick up all the "in the clear" channels, and the locals may have PSIP (which, oddly enough, puts WJW-HD as "3-1" in the initial listing, and then retunes from there at least once to get to the QAM channel you list). Then, when you tune to WJW-HD or any of the PSIP-laden stations, the information saved disappears from the channel list, and you're only left with other stuff like you list (Music Choice audio, etc., which I have NO problem tuning in).


Again, the software is buggy, and they'll presumably fix that...QAM tuning with computer cards on Windows XP is apparently at a very early stage. Once I do GET the channel tuned in, it's stable and works well.


"LOGO", by the way, is formerly one of the MTV subchannels, but is now airing programs aimed at the gay/lesbian community. It's up in digital cable land somewhere, but I forget the box channel.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Screen caps look good. Congratulations on getting an HDTV. Sorry it took so long to respond but I haven't been getting my emails about new entries on this link



You'll be happy to know that it looks MUCH better than my downconverted 480i on the TV upstairs.







(I have a tendency to "fill in" picture information in my head...so in my mind, the downconverted 480i/component video/analog set combo looked better than it actually did.







)


----------



## paule123

Breaking news - Wide Open West has added "The Tube" on channel 140.







The pixelated mess looks every bit as bad as the OTA feed.


Why do they even waste time adding this crap when they still don't have ESPN2 or TNT in HD ???










FWIW, I say keep PBS. I'll gladly pay the $5. McNeil-Lehrer news hour, Washington Week in Review, Nova, Frontline, are all excellent. City Club and Feagler & Friends for local politics. I grew up on Sesame Street and Zoom. The garbage on Nickelodeon is not what I'd call "educational"


Having a couple of minutes before the show and after the show with "funded by..." is a far cry better than commercial TV interrupting every 5 minutes with the same Ford pickup truck commercial over and over and over again.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Breaking news - Wide Open West has added "The Tube" on channel 140.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pixelated mess looks every bit as bad as the OTA feed.
> 
> 
> Why do they even waste time adding this crap when they still don't have ESPN2 or TNT in HD ???



You'll be thrilled to know that The Tube looks just as bad OTA with my new tuner.










I'm glad Adelphia has not added it, though I wouldn't mind if they added WKYC Weather Plus as far as SD subchannels go.


----------



## Inundated

Here, here's "The Tube" at its worst. This is a direct digital snapshot by the same USB tuner that produced the snapshots above. Of course, this is the worst - with lots of moving action on the screen at compressed 480i - but here it is.


----------



## hookbill

Speaking about Adelphia....I noticed that the scheduled programs for next week look very funny. This is probably due to the time change, but I would suggest that for those of you who have scheduled programs to be recorded keep your eyes open beginning SATURDAY. Yes, Saturday. For some reason my DVR wants to record Cops at 9:00 instead of the regular time of 8:00. Also several other shows for next week are highlighted on the regular schedule to be recorded that are either incorrect or not scheduled at all. If you add an hour on to all this it looks ok, but still keep an eye on things this week.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You'll be happy to know that it looks MUCH better than my downconverted 480i on the TV upstairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I have a tendency to "fill in" picture information in my head...so in my mind, the downconverted 480i/component video/analog set combo looked better than it actually did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )




And why am I not surprised by that?










Enjoy, and now that you have an HDTV, welcome to the forum.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And why am I not surprised by that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy, and now that you have an HDTV, welcome to the forum.



Thanks.










About the Adelphia schedule thing - I'm not seeing any incorrect times in the guide. (Note that the guide shows four episodes of "COPS" on Saturday on FOX 8, starting at 8 PM, so maybe this is what it's picking up. Can you say "no baseball"?







)


If it was an hour off for some reason, maybe it's an internal clock thing related to the time change. But the guide shows everything on Saturday night at the proper time on this end, and I looked into Monday, and no hour-off problem there as well.


It's probably still best to check, knowing Adelphia.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The buggy software with this card means that QAM tuning is hit and miss. If you scan, you MAY pick up all the "in the clear" channels, and the locals may have PSIP (which, oddly enough, puts WJW-HD as "3-1" in the initial listing, and then retunes from there at least once to get to the QAM channel you list). Then, when you tune to WJW-HD or any of the PSIP-laden stations, the information saved disappears from the channel list, and you're only left with other stuff like you list (Music Choice audio, etc., which I have NO problem tuning in).



It's not just the card. I have never gotten PSIP information on my tuner via QAM.


Also, severe dropouts on one subchannel that you are not watching can cause interference on the one you are. (This doesn't seem to happen as often as it used to.)


Enjoy the bleeding edge.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here, here's "The Tube" at its worst. This is a direct digital snapshot by the same USB tuner that produced the snapshots above. Of course, this is the worst - with lots of moving action on the screen at compressed 480i - but here it is.



The Tube wants your comments, why not send this screen shot to them










I can't believe that WUAB's engineers give so little bandwidth to the tube (well actually I CAN believe it - this is a Raycom station after all, famous for the 20 minute color bars from CBS after the late NFL game). It' s not like the few HD programs from UPN need the bulk of the bandwidth










While you are at it send them a screen shot of other local subchannels like ch 3's Weather Plus or WEAO's "main feed" on 50-2. Even the 4 subchannels from WDLI-DT 17 look better than the Tube's (although WDLI's audio is bad).


----------



## RussTC3

I noticed the samething last night. WUAB 43.1 had Paid Programming, upconverted to HD and it looked surprisingly good. Then I switched to The Tube and was shocked. The pixelation was extremely bad. I hope they fix that in the future.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Tube wants your comments, why not send this screen shot to them



I would, but look...you can't make out the E-Mail address!










(To be fair, my other screen shots were not all this bad...this was just one I caught at the worst pixellation.)


I'm not terribly concerned, personally, that The Tube looks bad. And perhaps if it means there's more bandwidth on 43-1 for UPN HD, that could be a better thing for those who watch that network's programs. But this is ridiculously low, and UPN HD is not really all that much, anyway.


WKYC-DT is 1080i, no? I haven't watched a lot of NBC HD, but I don't think WeatherPlus affects their HD PQ that much from what I've seen...


----------



## Inundated

I've been playing with antenna placement of my indoor antenna since I got this new tuner...


Is WOAC-DT (D47) up and running? My tuner's getting a 20-25% signal out of them, certainly not enough to decode, but enough to show up...which I've never gotten before.


I know it'll only be an SD Shop at Home channel, but I'm still curious


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been playing with antenna placement of my indoor antenna since I got this new tuner...
> 
> 
> Is WOAC-DT (D47) up and running? My tuner's getting a 20-25% signal out of them, certainly not enough to decode, but enough to show up...which I've never gotten before.
> 
> 
> I know it'll only be an SD Shop at Home channel, but I'm still curious



I haven't been able to lock on WOAC with my system either. There is something there, it just has too much dropout (peaks at 70 then drops to 3). Once I get my outdoor antenna up, I'm going to peak it southward towards Akron. I should be able to catch all the Cleveland stations off the backside (I'm only around 1 mile due south of the towers). Hopefully I'll be able to see WOAC then. I hope they will someday use a subchannel for something other than shopping or infomercials. That is a lot of good full-power bandwidth going to waste


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WOAC-DT (D47) up and running? My tuner's getting a 20-25% signal out of them, certainly not enough to decode, but enough to show up...which I've never gotten before.



They're in the process of upgrading from 1KW to 1000KW...

I was occasionally seeing them last week on low power

here in North Canton...

their transmitter is in Brimfield near Kent...


Ed / wd8kct / North Canton


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I just got an HDTV card for my computer. So I know have that in addition to the tv downstairs. It actually does a better job with reception on the same antenna than my set top box.


But expect me to be complaining more about the locals as I watch more HDTV now.


First channel to grind my gears: WEWS, you bastards forgot to flip the switch. Monsters Inc. is not in HD so far. Nice goin.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got an HDTV card for my computer. So I know have that in addition to the tv downstairs. It actually does a better job with reception on the same antenna than my set top box.
> 
> 
> But expect me to be complaining more about the locals as I watch more HDTV now.



You and me both!










And I've got the same one in my sights...



> Quote:
> First channel to grind my gears: WEWS, you bastards forgot to flip the switch. Monsters Inc. is not in HD so far. Nice goin.



And that really stunk, because I actually know someone who had a minor (off-screen) involvement in that movie.










(Rant mode...ON!)


Is there something wrong with WEWS to begin with? This afternoon, I had the pleasure, uh, of watching the Ohio State/Minnesota game on that station. Of course, the game wasn't in HD (and I wasn't expecting it to be), but the SD upconvert STUNK. It looked like they were upconverting a ghost-laden analog signal from out of town! I'll tell you how bad it was...WOIO/WUAB's SD upconvert was better. (And 19/43's is the worst in the market. By the way, in "true HD", it looks embarrassing.)


The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top. It was "OHIO ST. " ("I think, because it kinda looks like OHIO ST.") vs. a mess of letters that could very well be MINN, or MISS, or MIWW, or WIMM, or whatever. I honestly did not know which team the Buckeyes were playing until someone mentioned their name on the broadcast.


This is bad enough on my old SD/downconverted to 480i set upstairs. On the new HD setup I have, it was downright TV criminal.


Oddly enough, there appears to be no problem with WEWS' SD upconvert of NewsChannel 5 at 11 tonight, with no "ghosting" on the graphics. Maybe there's an ABC network related problem? I should check the Programming boards...


(Rant mode OFF!)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They're in the process of upgrading from 1KW to 1000KW...
> 
> I was occasionally seeing them last week on low power
> 
> here in North Canton...
> 
> their transmitter is in Brimfield near Kent...



(re: WOAC-DT 47)


Yeah, I saw they have an STA out there, and I'm guessing I was picking that up with my amplified indoor antenna. The signal wasn't nearly powerful enough for 1000KW. When they do go to that, they'll likely blow my tuner out










But you're right, they're physically located, for us Akron types, away from the other stations. Parma is northwest of here, Copley (WEAO et al.) is west-southwest for me, and Brimfield is east-southeast for me. I should still get it well due to the close distance, even off the back end of the antenna.


BTW, from what I remember, they're either co-located or across Rt. 43 from WNIR/100.1's stick and WAOH-LP 29...the analog stick for 67 used to be up the hill from Belden Village Mall, but has probably moved since then.


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia QAM report: I'm tiptoeing with the USB HDTV card's software, which can scan in the broadcast OTA "in the clear" channels on Adelphia, but forgets them after you find and tune into one of the broadcast channels.


And one scan will get me WKYC/WEWS/WJW, when the next scan may get me that, or WOIO/WVIZ instead. (I know they're paired up with each other in those two groupings.) I'm not sure whether to blame the software or Adelphia, or both.


If I see a station on the scan, and tune to it, I can get it. Then, all the other named channels disappear, and I'm only left with basically Music Choice audio channels.


One other oddity here, OTA (via antenna) wise - I found a space for one of my indoor amplified antennas that is getting me full signal...95-100% on all locals except for, you guessed it, WKYC-DT. It's on top of a chair in the very back corner of my second floor loft, aiming out the large windows. Makes sense, if you think of it.


I put it out there to get WOIO-DT for Sunday's Browns game, though I just realized that it's against the Houston Texans, which means it won't be in HD. Booo...


----------



## hookbill

As I mentioned in a previous post, those of you with Adelphia DVR's who have scheduled recordings, please double check what your unit is going to record. I found today that EVERY recording I had was incorrect, probably due to the time change. I had to start by recording the latest show on the network and then you would see big changes in the scheduled recordings. For example, Desperate Housewives tonight MAY appear to be recording however you may notice that Gray's Anatomy is not. Once you schedule Gray's Anatomy you will see D.H. disappear and you will need to reschedule any other shows you have for that night on that network.


You also may see some shows highlighted red that you do not want recorded. These will disappear after you make your changes. Start with the latest show on each network first and work your way backwards. It's easier to do it that way, otherwise you'll keep getting kicked out of the list at you cancel.


Again, you will see these anomallys on your "guide", not on your scheduled recordings. On your scheduled recordings you will probably notice shows are off by an hour.


----------



## Inundated

I know you're gonna hit me, but...










I only have one show that recorded after the morning, a FOX 8 newscast (10 PM), and it recorded fine, and none of my other scheduled recordings into the week seem off at all.


The time change seems not to have affected my SA8000 here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know you're gonna hit me, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only have one show that recorded after the morning, a FOX 8 newscast (10 PM), and it recorded fine, and none of my other scheduled recordings into the week seem off at all.
> 
> 
> The time change seems not to have affected my SA8000 here.



Strangely enough none of the daytime shows I record were affected! Court shows that I like are all fine. It was only primetime shows.


I'm seeing in the 8300 forum that other people had this problem as well. I warned them too and now they are posting like they are the first to see it!


----------



## Commodore 64












Is there anyway to know what power the stations broadcast? I can't figure out how I can have a perfect signal from WJW, but a stuttering mess from WEWS.


----------



## Tom in OH

...wife and I were just discussing yesterday how many problems the time change causes.(say it together -"Fall back-Spring ahead)"...plays like a recording in my head. It might seem almost a sure thing the time change would mess up a dvr sooner or later, given its dependence on time. The HDTivo had no probs. this time. I'd vote to drop daylight saving time altogether.


The worst problem I've heard caused by the time change was when a security company called the police when they forgot to reset their clocks and thought an employee entering a store was a crook.


trivia question: can anyone name the state who doesn't use DST?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...wife and I were just discussing yesterday how many problems the time change causes.(say it together -"Fall back-Spring ahead)"...plays like a recording in my head. It might seem almost a sure thing the time change would mess up a dvr sooner or later, given its dependence on time. The HDTivo had no probs. this time. I'd vote to drop daylight saving time altogether.
> 
> 
> The worst problem I've heard caused by the time change was when a security company called the police when they forgot to reset their clocks and thought an employee entering a store was a crook.
> 
> 
> trivia question: can anyone name the state who doesn't use DST?



Arizona!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top.



I noticed the same thing. It looked like the kind of crap I get when I attach a cheap PC VGA to composite video converter to a TV. I could see the vertical banding throughout the picture. My assumption is that ABC had some sort of equipment failure and had to run to Radio Shack to buy the equivalent of a $29.00 RF Modulator to get the signal out of the stadium.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Arizona!



...we have a winner! Happy Halloween (^.^)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got an HDTV card for my computer. So I know have that in addition to the tv downstairs. It actually does a better job with reception on the same antenna than my set top box.
> 
> 
> But expect me to be complaining more about the locals as I watch more HDTV now.
> 
> 
> First channel to grind my gears: WEWS, you bastards forgot to flip the switch. Monsters Inc. is not in HD so far. Nice goin.



The reason Monsters INC. was in SD on WEWS was because WEWS delayed the broadcast by one hour due tothe "Upbeat" reunion special live from the R&R HOF.


Apparently WEWS does not have a way to record the HD feed from ABC for later rebroadcast, so they tape the SD feed and S T R E T C H it










What I can't understand about WEWS is they stretch the 11 PM news but leave 20/20 in 4X3. World News Tonight gets stretched but not a prime time news program.


And how abouot WJW's NFL coverage? A game that starts out in true HD ends up in SD 4X3. This is probably due to the fact that they have to play all the local commercials in SD 4X3, which means someone in MC has to manually switch back and forth. Halfway through a game they forget or just get lazy and leave it 4X3 for the rest of the game.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

So let me get this straight.


WEWS has this high tech studio but they cant record in HD but my simple 150 dollar HDTV card can?


They suck.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So let me get this straight.
> 
> 
> WEWS has this high tech studio but they cant record in HD but my simple 150 dollar HDTV card can?
> 
> 
> They suck.



You are comparing apples to oranges. What we record on our PC cards is the highly compressed MPEG2 data stream. What they receive from ABC is an uncompressed full bandwidth datastream that would eat hard drives for lunch. Not so easy to do and I'm not aware of any local affiliates that have that capability.

Steve


----------



## padstack

anyone not getting sound on the OTA feed from 5.1?



..oops! Just came on!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *padstack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone not getting sound on the OTA feed from 5.1?
> 
> 
> 
> ..oops! Just came on!




Yeah, it was flaky the first couple minutes. I thought there was something wrong with my SA8000HD, but I guess it was a station/network issue (I'm on Wide Open West cable)


----------



## Inundated

The MNF thing was network-wide...see the thread in HDTV Programming for more. Is WEWS doing 5.1 for this? I thought they didn't pass it... my tuner card software says it's 2.0.


WEWS' general "stretch rule" seems to be that they do not stretch prime time, but will stretch network programming (non-HD) outside of prime time.


As for WJW on Sunday, I was trying to work that out in a thread there as well. It appears that either the station or the network went to SD for the final minutes of the 1 PM "overflow game" (the one that aired after the scheduled GB/CIN game). They were back in HD by the time they joined the 4 PM game.


----------



## paule123

They are not passing the DD5.1 audio on the MNF game, I'm just getting stereo.


That brings up the question, does ABC do 5.1 audio now? I thought they had that Circle Surround crap that no (ordinary) receiver can properly decode.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are not passing the DD5.1 audio on the MNF game, I'm just getting stereo.
> 
> 
> That brings up the question, does ABC do 5.1 audio now? I thought they had that Circle Surround crap that no (ordinary) receiver can properly decode.



Over in the HDTV Programming section here, they're making a big deal about it being the first 5.1 game. Someone actually involved with the production at ABC posted the news about it.


After the initial glitches, most folks were reporting 5.1... but WEWS apparently can't pass it, yet. I was getting 2.0 indicators all night, too. Though, curiously enough, the "WatchHDTV" software, a third-party download I can use on my USB HDTV box, was having problems on and off with WEWS all night. In my configuration, I have to manually force decoders into that software, and I had a non-5.1 compatible decoder for audio...and it was locking up just like WJW does when FOX runs 5.1. So, maybe it was picking up ABC's 5.1, which WEWS wasn't processing.


(This is only applicable to that third-party program - the Fusion software out of the box will do 5.1 - and my own non-video hardware accelerated laptop. I just haven't figured out which of the decoders will do 5.1.)


----------



## jtscherne

Only Fox and NBC does 5.1 locally.


----------



## TWC-NEOhio

Good Morning~

My name is Tiffany and I am a Marketing Coordinator for Time Warner Cable, Northeast Ohio Division. I recently joined this forum to provide assistance for those that have questions about our HD service or are experiencing HD problems. Please feel free to PM me with any issues and I will do my best to address them. I am by no means a technical person, but I will be able to find the right person to resolve any issues.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TWC-NEOhio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good Morning~
> 
> I recently joined this forum to provide assistance for those that have questions about our HD service or are experiencing HD problems.



...u must be a very brave individual facing this crowd










Welcome to the forum.


----------



## JJkizak

The aspect ratio WEWS transmitts is some wierd in between thing that I cannot correct even with 18 possible zoom combinations with my LG 3510A tuner. It almost covers the widescreen but zooming to normal makes everybody skinny during SD broadcasts. When they broadcast HD it's OK, and the correct flags are transmitted for 4 x 3 commercials.

I aso do not believe they are receiving uncompressed video. The bean counters just will not let them waste satellite bandwidth when the 24meg MPEG2 data stream looks the same as the uncompressed video to all consumers on their TV sets. Since I process HDTV video the typical on the street person cannot tell the diference between 4.2.2.2 and 4.2.2.0. period. Even side by side it is difficult.


JJK


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are comparing apples to oranges. What we record on our PC cards is the highly compressed MPEG2 data stream. What they receive from ABC is an uncompressed full bandwidth datastream that would eat hard drives for lunch. Not so easy to do and I'm not aware of any local affiliates that have that capability.
> 
> Steve



While none of the Cleveland stations can do this, it can't be that difficult, since a lot of stations nationwide have this capability - i.e., stations in the Mountain Time Zone and stations in Indiana where they don't observe daylight savings time and thus have to delay the network feed 1 hour for half the year. And WEWS recently has been about the worst about pre-empting network programming and bumping it (in SD of course) to later hours.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While none of the Cleveland stations can do this, it can't be that difficult, since a lot of stations nationwide have this capability - i.e., stations in the Mountain Time Zone and stations in Indiana where they don't observe daylight savings time and thus have to delay the network feed 1 hour for half the year. And WEWS recently has been about the worst about pre-empting network programming and bumping it (in SD of course) to later hours.



I didn't mean "Not easy" from a technical standpoint - more in the way of justifying the expenditure of the expensive equipment. They will have to acquire it eventually when the analog broadcasts cease. But, just like the 5.1 audio equipment, I'm sure they will put it off as long as they can.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

I've been asked in a PM to comment on costs of recording HD media on our server for playout later. The first comment I can think of is what would we record? At this moment no program syndicator I'm aware of is distributing shows in HD. I think there's a better chance of getting HD commercials. It's one of the big reasons I haven't considered it here. I have a manual "SWITCH" to turn on the HD. I'd have to build something into my automation to recognize and HD content other than NBC network so it knows a HD program/commercial from one that needs upconverted. Also, it is expensive. My playout server would require another chassis with the playout cards and I'd have to expand my storage, probably double it. Cost would probably be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. NBC distributes via satellite at 45 MB. The output of our NBC receiver is 1.5GB serial HD digital. Bear in mind that we're taking 1.5 GIGA bits down to about 18 MEGA bits (if there isn't a second channel in the bitstream) and you wonder why it works as good as it does. The HD SDI stream at 1.5GB would be compressed onto the hard drives to something around 100MB. Even at that bitrate, it's a LOT of storage. HD is a MAJOR investment for us broadcasters. The legislators look like they've finally decided to force an end the transition in the next couple of years so it looks like we will have to step up to the plate on these issues.


----------



## SteveC

Robert,

Thanks for posting. The reason for recording would be to replay an HD show later in HD(as opposed to SD as is currently done by local affiliates) because it was preempted by something else(local sporting event, etc).

Steve


----------



## Michael P 2341

WFMJ probably does not preempt network programming nearly as often as WEWS or WKYC does (the two Cleveland stations that IMNSHO are the worst offenders when it comes to prime-time network programming preemptions). Not only do they preempt too often, what they preempt network programming for makes no sense: Who wants to see old Matlock reruns insted of anything ABC is showing? WEWS has done this countless times (and in glorious stretch-o-vision too boot).


I'm glad I can pick up WFMJ and WKBN (WYTV is harder to pull in) where I live.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TWC-NEOhio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good Morning~
> 
> My name is Tiffany and I am a Marketing Coordinator for Time Warner Cable, Northeast Ohio Division. I recently joined this forum to provide assistance for those that have questions about our HD service or are experiencing HD problems. Please feel free to PM me with any issues and I will do my best to address them. I am by no means a technical person, but I will be able to find the right person to resolve any issues.



Welcome, Tiffany!


Umm...one pressing question: WHEN ARE YOU GUYS TAKING OVER ADELPHIA?










That's all. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.


----------



## Commodore 64

I've gotten the stutter issues to a minimum with WatchHDTV, but my ABC station still has bad problems. The signal (according to the Avermedia app) bounces from roughly 50% to 100% pretty much all the time :/ . I had stuttering on all channels except NBC until I tried the WatchHDTV app, now it is mostly limited to ABC.


There is a big ass tree about 60 feet in front of my antenna as the crow flies. I've got a 2 story house with a 10 foot pole for my antenna...I need another 10 feet to get over the tree. There is also a big ass water tower, but that is pretty much due north, while the stations I'm trying to tune are 317-321 Degrees, so I don't think that it is interfering.


Is it possible that different frequencies penetrate the tree better than others?


Here is the Antenna Web printout for me.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Is it possible that different frequencies penetrate the tree better than others?



You bet! VHF does much better than UHF when it comes to foliage. The VHF low band (2-6) has other interference issues, which leaves chs 7 - 13 as the best frequencies. unfortunately there are many more UHF channels available (even after the FCC and Congress chops off the top 19 channels after the transition is over). It probably the reason why WOIO took ch 10, unfortunately there are too many other (analog) ch 10's close by to cause problems.


----------



## JJkizak

I'm in Twinsburg and can pick up these stations:

3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 19.1, 43.1, 43.2, 50.1, 50.2, 61.1.

Once in a while I can get 13 and 11 from Toledo. This is with a fixed antenna

aimed at Cleveland. PBS is fairly weak while the others are solid. Its the biggest periodic log antenna that I can get from MCM Electronics Catalog. 43.2 (tube) is SD but the quality of their transmission is terrible---noisy, MPEG2 blocking, blurry, inferior sound etc.

That tower to the North "may be ' a large multipath problem. 24 miles should be a piece of cake unless you are down in a hole.


JJK


----------



## padstack

JJkizak - what antenna are you using? I am a Newark InOne employee and get the MCM employee discount (sister company). I would like to look into one of those as well. I'm heading to Dayton to make a pickup on Thursday (there was an employee clearance sale and I picked up 2 complete home theatre speaker setups - neither being the best there is, but good for the money - for under $120. These aren't the little bitty ones either. They are full size towers!.



Let me know. I'd like to get one too.



Tim


----------



## jdswimm

Got a question?


What is a dual tuner?


----------



## Inundated

That 5th generation chip in my Fusion5USB tuner must be doing wonders in helping with multipath. I have found an indoor antenna position that can *consistently* get WKYC-DT with a solid lock.


Now, those who've followed this thread may remember that I did some contortion with my antenna in the past and thought I'd found positions that get WKYC-DT indoors, but later fell apart due to atmospheric conditions or whatever. But unlike that, this time, it's been solid for 48 straight hours. If you look at the signal indicator, it doesn't "bounce back and forth" like my other OTA tuner does on WKYC on the same antenna...it's steady, either low or high depending on where I put the antenna.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *padstack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> JJkizak - what antenna are you using? I am a Newark InOne employee and get the MCM employee discount (sister company). I would like to look into one of those as well. I'm heading to Dayton to make a pickup on Thursday (there was an employee clearance sale and I picked up 2 complete home theatre speaker setups - neither being the best there is, but good for the money - for under $120. These aren't the little bitty ones either. They are full size towers!.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know. I'd like to get one too.
> 
> 
> 
> Tim



Tim,

I just moved from Seven Hills across Broadview into Parma. When I was in 7hills I could not get a lock on WVIZ-DT. I move 2 miles west and now I get it. I'm about 100' higher than I was in 7hills plus I now have a window to the North. I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor for now.


Do you get WVIZ-DT where you are in 7hills?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Welcome, Tiffany!
> 
> 
> Umm...one pressing question: WHEN ARE YOU GUYS TAKING OVER ADELPHIA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's all. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.




Yeah....What Inundated said Tiffany. We all dislike Adelphia and can't wait until your company takes over. So give us some good news.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdswimm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got a question?
> 
> 
> What is a dual tuner?



Dual tuner is a receiver that is capable of receving two signals at one time. So you can watch a recorded program and record two others. This is common with most DVR's. (Digital Video Recorders).


----------



## JJkizak

Padstack:

The antenna is part #30-1075 Discovery D-9000 for $90.00 by Antennacraft.

It is deliverable by UPS. It has a bit more sensitivity than the older model and is pretty critical as far as rotation. 1/2" made a lot of difference on analog channels 23 & 25. Mine is pointing through about a zillion trees.


JJK


----------



## padstack

Michael P 2341:


No I cannot. I only get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 42.1, 42.2, and 61.1. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm on ridgewood almost @ crossview.






JJkizak:


Thanks!


----------



## Commodore 64




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WFMJ probably does not preempt network programming nearly as often as WEWS or WKYC does (the two Cleveland stations that IMNSHO are the worst offenders when it comes to prime-time network programming preemptions). Not only do they preempt too often, what they preempt network programming for makes no sense: Who wants to see old Matlock reruns insted of anything ABC is showing? WEWS has done this countless times (and in glorious stretch-o-vision too boot).
> 
> 
> I'm glad I can pick up WFMJ and WKBN (WYTV is harder to pull in) where I live.



Antennaweb does not show WKBN as being a digital station. Doesn't a station have to be digital to braodcast HD content? The reason I ask is that I'd like to try and receive WKBN becasue I would like to replace the crappy 3 month old Channel Master antenna (plastic clips are all breaking, what a poor poor design), with a multidirectional UHF antenna, but the Cleveleand digital CBS affiliate is a VHF channel.


pardon me for being such a noob.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Antennaweb does not show WKBN as being a digital station. Doesn't a station have to be digital to braodcast HD content? The reason I ask is that I'd like to try and receive WKBN becasue I would like to replace the crappy 3 month old Channel Master antenna (plastic clips are all breaking, what a poor poor design), with a multidirectional UHF antenna, but the Cleveleand digital CBS affiliate is a VHF channel.
> 
> 
> pardon me for being such a noob.




WKBN digital is not on yet. They have tower issues and since they don't own their tower, scheduling the work is out of their control. I believe the crews are doing the work now, but of course in NE Ohio, weather is going to become an issue.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Antennaweb does not show WKBN as being a digital station. Doesn't a station have to be digital to braodcast HD content? The reason I ask is that I'd like to try and receive WKBN becasue I would like to replace the crappy 3 month old Channel Master antenna (plastic clips are all breaking, what a poor poor design), with a multidirectional UHF antenna, but the Cleveleand digital CBS affiliate is a VHF channel.
> 
> 
> pardon me for being such a noob.



Sorry if my post was confusing. I should have said I'm glad I can get Analog WKBN & WFMJ. The 2 Youngstown digital stations are harder to get then their analog counterparts with my indoor Silver Sensor. I have locked onto both WFMJ-DT anf WYTV-DT, however that was during the summer months later in the evening. I can get 2 of the Youngstown analog stations virtually anytime. They come in better on my old Zenith "click Tuner" set than they do on the OTA tuner in my 921.


Tim: Ouch you are at the bottom of the hill. You may have to "dance around your yard" looking for a "sweet spot" (the spot where you get enough signal with the least amount of interference). The terrain works against you. I bet multipath issues (which cause ghosts on analog stations but prevents digital signals form locking) are a big problem. Since ch 3.1, 3.2 are the closest to your location and you did not list them (unless you don't have a true VHF antenna). You might get away with just UHF for WOIO-DT 10 but that won't help WKYC-DT 2. You need an 8 foot wide antenna to pick up WKYC's current frequency. It appears that after the transition is over WKYC will move to UHF (they applied for ch 17).


----------



## padstack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Tim: Ouch you are at the bottom of the hill. You may have to "dance around your yard" looking for a "sweet spot" (the spot where you get enough signal with the least amount of interference). The terrain works against you. I bet multipath issues (which cause ghosts on analog stations but prevents digital signals form locking) are a big problem. Since ch 3.1, 3.2 are the closest to your location and you did not list them (unless you don't have a true VHF antenna). You might get away with just UHF for WOIO-DT 10 but that won't help WKYC-DT 2. You need an 8 foot wide antenna to pick up WKYC's current frequency. It appears that after the transition is over WKYC will move to UHF (they applied for ch 17).




I can get WOIO with a home-made dipole antenna any time I want. Actually, any of the stations I mentioned will come in at any time. I'm looking around for a decent antenna that I can pull in the major stations with. I'm trying to get the wife convinced to let me pick a new one up tomorrow when I make a Dayton run to MCM, but considering I'm picking up a pair of bass shakers while I'm there that she doesn't know about, I should probably hold off...







I'm thinking of rigging up a new dipole antenna and putting it up on top of my house where it's not too terribly obvious and see how it works out. Does anyone know the exact length that I would need to make a dipole that would pick up WKYC?


Thanks!


----------



## Michael P 2341

A long time ago I did a spreadsheet based on a formula for Yagi antennas on the U.S. NTSC standards. The only missing data is the spacing between the 3 elements.


Since we are now trying for digital, the video & audio carriers are no longer a part of the equation. If all you want is a simple dipole I'd just make one based either on the video carrier element length or an average between the video and audio.


Here is the part of the speradsheet that pertains to WKYC (both digital and analog):


CHAN VIDEO AUDIO video element audio element reflector element


2 54 55.25 59.75 8.470588235 7.832635983 8.666666667

3 60 61.25 65.75 7.640816327 7.117870722 7.8


Frequency is in MHz, the elements are in feet.


Since it's hard to get the spreadsheet to format,lets just say the dipole should be somewhere between 8.4' and 8.6'


Good luck!


----------



## Commodore 64

I've been chatting with one of the developers for the Media Portal project regarding ATSC support. And we were talking about issues that I am having with my HDTV tuner card whichis an Avermedia A180.


At this point it looks like my stutter/reception issues are multipath related...the A180 has a crappy tuner that doesn't deal with multipathing as well as the newer cards by Vbox and Fusion which use a 5th generation Samsung tuner.


I've got a UHF multidirectional antenna on the way, which should help with some of the multipathing issues, but I probably need to get a new HDTV tuner card as well. This is all well and good, but I 'm still going to be left with 2 VHF channels to tune







.


Is there a way that I could use the VHF portion of the Channel Master antenna that I have as well as the new UHF flyswatter? Can they be mounted on the same pole? DO I need some kind of signal splitter/combiner?


----------



## JJkizak

Does anyone have some kind of electronic stuff to combine two UHF antennas and allow for the space diversities and multipath problems? And the antennas pointed in different fixed positions on the same pole?


JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have some kind of electronic stuff to combine two UHF antennas and allow for the space diversities and multipath problems? And the antennas pointed in different fixed positions on the same pole?
> 
> 
> JJK



You can put multiple antennas on one pole, however the spacing between the antennas is critical. If the antennas are too close together, they will interact with each other. It's easiser to combine one VHF & one UHF antennas together than to combine 2 of the same band. There used to be a device that I believe has been discontinued called a "Jointenna", that allowed 2 of the same antennas to be combined when one antenna was used for a single channel. Basically the Jointenna notched out one channel and allowed only the noched uot channel on the 2nd input.


If you are trying to aim antennas at Cleveland and Akron at the same time, the best way is to use an A/B switch.


----------



## JJkizak

The reason I brought this up was I am not familiar with all of the equipment that is available, as fast as technology happens nowadays. I used to maintain Quad diversity military Tropo systems with Parametric amps and 4 receivers combined together, Two of them one frequency, two of them vertically polarized, two of them horizontally polarized and two antennas spaced 50 feet apart vertically and maybe 150 feet apart. All the receivers were phased together perfectly and the phasing held pretty well untill the signal started to degrade. An IF combiner took the best receiver or if all four were equal all four would share. The intermod would hold at -55db with good signal conditions but would degrade with poor signal conditions. 20 db quieting checked at about -102dbm to -106 dbm. If you were filthy rich one could get a bunch of parametric amps (noise figure 1.8 db) at about 250K each and set one up for each channel. Would have to win the Powerball lottery to do this. Or maybe somebody in Tiawan has some little gadget for $25.00.


JJK


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FWIW, I say keep PBS. I'll gladly pay the $5. McNeil-Lehrer news hour, Washington Week in Review, Nova, Frontline, are all excellent. City Club and Feagler & Friends for local politics. I grew up on Sesame Street and Zoom. The garbage on Nickelodeon is not what I'd call "educational"
> 
> 
> Having a couple of minutes before the show and after the show with "funded by..." is a far cry better than commercial TV interrupting every 5 minutes with the same Ford pickup truck commercial over and over and over again.



Agreed! Now that the HD programming has been stopped on 50.1 its hardly worth turning on my tv anymore


----------



## JJkizak

Why did they stop the HD on 50.1?


JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why did they stop the HD on 50.1?



An explanation posted right here on this thread a couple of pages back, from PBS 45 & 49's Don Freeman, copied here by me (since he posted it in the Youngstown thread originally):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6411413 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are correct. WNEO-DT and WEAO-DT (45 and 50) have temporarily discontinued our HD service. This is a technical and legal issue. When we have the technical problems resolved (aiming for November 5) we'll return with three channels from midnight until 7pm, and a HD and SD channel from 7pm until midnight. Channel 1 will be our HD service. Channel 2 will remain as our digital rebroadcast of our analog service. Channel 3 will be our Information & Education service (INFOTV), blending CPB/Annenberg programs with rebroadcasts of PBS prime-time shows and school age kids shows. Channel 4 will be The Ohio Channel, which provides live coverage of the Ohio House and Senate, committee hearings and government issues, along with public affairs programs produced by PBS stations around Ohio.
> 
> We're sorry that we've been forced to temporarily drop the HD channel. It will return as quickly as we can resolve our switcher issues.


----------



## JJkizak

Inundated:

Thank you


JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The reason I brought this up was I am not familiar with all of the equipment that is available, as fast as technology happens nowadays. I used to maintain Quad diversity military Tropo systems with Parametric amps and 4 receivers combined together, Two of them one frequency, two of them vertically polarized, two of them horizontally polarized and two antennas spaced 50 feet apart vertically and maybe 150 feet apart. All the receivers were phased together perfectly and the phasing held pretty well untill the signal started to degrade. An IF combiner took the best receiver or if all four were equal all four would share. The intermod would hold at -55db with good signal conditions but would degrade with poor signal conditions. 20 db quieting checked at about -102dbm to -106 dbm. If you were filthy rich one could get a bunch of parametric amps (noise figure 1.8 db) at about 250K each and set one up for each channel. Would have to win the Powerball lottery to do this. Or maybe somebody in Tiawan has some little gadget for $25.00.
> 
> 
> JJK



You gave me an idea. In my job I use wireless microphones. The receivers for these mics us a technology called "dual diversity". Simply described dual diversity uses 2 antennas and selects the best signal at any given moment. What if this same technology were used to receive ASTC signals? The technology you described sounds like dual diversity.


----------



## JJkizak

Michael P 2341:

I would assume that dual diversity, would be highly simplified to one small chip, maybe like those position thingy's that tell you where you are at, that sample three satellites at one time to get your position. The system I worked on was "quad diversity". Space (2), frequency (3), and polarization (4). You would think that this would be available with it synced up on some clock frequency. The noise figure on HDTV front ends doesn't seem to be readily available. As I recall the noise figure on ordinary TV sets was around 4-6 db which isn't that good. I think most of them are designed around a 0 dbm signal input whereas the stuff I worked on was around -85 dbm without the parametric amp, -102 dbm with the parametric amp, and -105 dbm with the threshold extension panel cut in. The available pre-amps for the typical antenna installation really don't seem to do much, in fact they are worse than the tuner in the TV set. I tried three of them and they were a bit worse when in the circuit. The above sensitivities are 20 db quieting point for audio, not video quieting. You would think somebody would have a gadget even if it cost 500 bucks for dealing with tough signal problems.


JJK


----------



## stuart628

Is twcneo getting TBSHD???? I was at titantv today looking to see if the boxing match this saturday was on in high def......well under 10/12s date on channel 642, is TBSHD, also, TNTHD is right by it!?!? what is going on here its also on todays date thru, is this a mistake???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is twcneo getting TBSHD???? I was at titantv today looking to see if the boxing match this saturday was on in high def......well under 10/12s date on channel 642, is TBSHD, also, TNTHD is right by it!?!? what is going on here its also on todays date thru, is this a mistake???



Try sending a pm to this person here. She should have all the answers for you.


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, being from Parma, I notice that Cox Communications has about 10 channels dedicated to HD currently. The local channels, 3, 5, 8, 19, 43, etc... Also, there's ESPN, Discovery, PPV, HBO, and PBS. As for the others, that's another thing. If an antenna is not an option, then going for the digital cable box from Cox may be just what the HD Specialist has ordered. That should hook up to my Westinghouse quite nicely.


----------



## stuart628

forget about tbshd, must be a typo, and between that and a late night I was out of my mind, when I looked at it this morning those are the digital versions of TNT and TBS, not the HD versions! Tnthd is actually located on another channel! sorry guys


----------



## Inundated

There is no "TBSHD" as far as I know, unless local WTBS/17 Atlanta does HD on its over air channel, if they do. I'm pretty sure that they aren't offering it nationally. It's not on the AVS Forum "Programming Synopsis" in the HDTV Programming forum here...


In other news, WEWS-DT took a swan dive this morning, right in the middle of "Good Morning America". (I was up and checking it because I wanted to see GMA in HD.) It went off at just after 8:25 AM, and was off the air for some time. By the time I checked again, at just after 1 PM, it was back...so I don't know how long it was off.


----------



## stuart628

yeah I even knew there was no TBSHD, its just a digital station but for some reason titantv has it listed as TBSHD not TBS digital or just tbs, also there is no listing of TNTHD in the right spot just TNTHD where tnt digital should be! sorry for all the confusion!


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, don't forget about WGN from Chicago, too. That's about the same type of station that TBS is, I dunno if WGN would be carrying HD to the cable feed as well as in their area (you receive WGN from Cox Communications, dunno about Adelphia, Comcast, or Road Runner, tho). As far as other stations like that, that to me sound like something to look over.


----------



## Inundated

And oddly enough, WGN-HD IS carried on Canadian satellite systems!


----------



## paule123

Anyone else notice MNF on WEWS analog channel 5 looking like crap tonight? I noticed it on the TV in the kitchen. The HD presentation looks ok though. The analog PQ looks almost as bad as the college football game me and Inundated were complaining about last week.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice MNF on WEWS analog channel 5 looking like crap tonight? I noticed it on the TV in the kitchen. The HD presentation looks ok though. The analog PQ looks almost as bad as the college football game me and Inundated were complaining about last week.



Nope...didn't see it, as I was watching the HD version on both the laptop and the upstairs TV, and it looked fine to me.


There would appear to be something wrong with WEWS's satellite receive equipment on the analog side, judging from your experience and what we both saw on that Ohio State game, which was just as bad on the DT stream since it was not in HD.


Just flipped the TV upstairs to analog 5 (Adelphia) and there are no PQ problems with NewsChannel 5. It must just be the analog satellite downlink for ABC and something to do with the games...?


----------



## TWC-NEOhio

someone asked me when are we "taking over Adelphia," I'd have a lot of money! Right now TW is in the legal process of acquring the system. At any time the "powers that be" could put the kabosh on it. If everything goes as planned, you should see some announcements come springtime. But this should be nothing new to anyone-- its been in the news. I can't really tell you anymore than this. I wish the process were faster, but there is a lot involved. I'll keep everyone posted as it gets closer. I am just as excited as you are.







We have a lot of cool products and services and we constantly keep up to date on our technology and infrastructure.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TWC-NEOhio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> someone asked me when are we "taking over Adelphia," I'd have a lot of money! Right now TW is in the legal process of acquring the system. At any time the "powers that be" could put the kabosh on it. If everything goes as planned, you should see some announcements come springtime. But this should be nothing new to anyone-- its been in the news. I can't really tell you anymore than this. I wish the process were faster, but there is a lot involved. I'll keep everyone posted as it gets closer. I am just as excited as you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have a lot of cool products and services and we constantly keep up to date on our technology and infrastructure.




To my understanding the deal with Comcast and Time Warner absorbing Adelphia is completed. I haven't heard anything about "still in the legal process."


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TWC-NEOhio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> put the kabosh on



Isn't that what crazy Joe Davola wanted to put on Jerry??


----------



## JJkizak

I watched the HD MNF and it was fine. The HD channel, when sending SD (4 x 3) during the daytime hours instead of HD is sending some kind of dumb dumb aspect which looks like to me they are using the long horizontal pixels for 16 x 9 to make the 4 x 3 picture bigger to fill the screen. The zoom controls cannot correct the distortion they are sending without making the vertical aspect larger to compensate, therby loosing all of the text and the tops of heads. When you expand a standard 4 x 3 to widescreen using the pixel method it creates much mushy and out of focus garbage. This is the only Cleveland channel that has the SD totally screwed up. The "zoom set by program" doesn't work on this channel and the other 17 zooms I have cannot correct the crap they are sending. At least the other channels the zoom can be set to view a picture that is correct in aspect. The analog channel on WEWS is fine.


JJK


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To my understanding the deal with Comcast and Time Warner absorbing Adelphia is completed. I haven't heard anything about "still in the legal process."



Not exactly:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/051028/1184203.html?.v=2 


The article indicates that the feds still have to approve the deal. The article is dated October 28th.


----------



## 8IronBob

I'm just glad that I'm a Cox guy, at least we have one company that knows what they're doing.


----------



## Inundated

It looks like there'll be no ABC HD tonight on WEWS-DT, and perhaps later on other channels. WEWS is running continuous election results graphics, which forces them to run upconverted SD.


So far, WOIO and WJW are in HD for their 8 PM shows with no SD graphics. WKYC's 8 PM show ("The Biggest Loser") is not in HD. WOIO's 9 PM show ("The Amazing Race: Family Edition") is also not in HD, though I worry they'll run their own horrible SD stretched upconvert instead of passing the network through...


WJW should be able to do election graphics in HD, as their control room is equipped for it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The article indicates that the feds still have to approve the deal. The article is dated October 28th.



Indeed, there's a whole lineup of local/state approvals involved as well, which is why the deal is estimated to take until next spring...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm just glad that I'm a Cox guy, at least we have one company that knows what they're doing.



TWC and Comcast *generally* "know what they're doing", they just can't force regulators and bankruptcy courts to act in a day.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm just glad that I'm a Cox guy, at least we have one company that knows what they're doing.



I'm a Wide Open West guy, and they know what they're doing, too. IIRC they were the first cable company in NE Ohio to have all the locals in HD from Day One. (including CBS and Fox!) With that said, they're falling behind in adding HD channels now, and the gap is closing with DirecTV adding the new MPEG4 stuff in 2006. Hopefully the D* upgrades will put the heat on the cable companies to be more competitive with their HD offerings.


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, just received my Westinghouse 32" yesterday, and it does great with even regular old analog cable. I do plan to pick up on an HD set-top box from Cox within the next week or two. What would most set-top boxes connect into? DVI? Component? HDMI (which Westinghouse doesn't have, but that's what you run into for a 32" that's under $1,000)?


----------



## paule123

All the set top boxes have component outs on them. PQ is just fine with component. Cox may have a box with DVI out but then you get into the problem of HDCP (copy protection) handshaking with your TV. In my case, the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box does not talk to my Panasonic plasma via DVI, I get an error message. So I use the component connection and I'm perfectly happy with it.


Whatever you do, don't pay $100 for Monster cables at Best Buy, either component or DVI. It's overkill.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All the set top boxes have component outs on them. PQ is just fine with component. Cox may have a box with DVI out but then you get into the problem of HDCP (copy protection) handshaking with your TV. In my case, the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box does not talk to my Panasonic plasma via DVI, I get an error message. So I use the component connection and I'm perfectly happy with it.
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't pay $100 for Monster cables at Best Buy, either component or DVI. It's overkill.



I agree about the cables. I just purchased some Beldin/Canare custom made componant cables from BlueJeansCable.com at about 1/3 the cost of Monster cables. They are just beautiful hand made custom cables & are the best quality out there. I'd go with those as I think they are the best bang for your buck out there without breaking the bank. Great company to deal with too.


As for DVI, I'd say on a fixed pixel TV, you'd get better PQ with DVI than componant. I can't say if it'll work for you or not, but I just setup my buddy's Sharp LCD & DVI worked just fine with that same SA HD box. With BlueJeansCable, you can return the cable for any reason at all, so you might want to give DVI a try first & then just return it for a componant if it doesn't work.


-Todd


----------



## RLucky82

any updates on when 45 49 will be back to "normal" ?


----------



## EricG

I just checked titantv. Looks like WKYC will be broadcasting Sunday Night's Game in SD, while my ESPN-HD will get blacked out!









A perfectly good HD signal on ESPN that I won't be able to see.


HD football for Browns fans really sucks.


First the Buckeyes games get whacked NOW this. I'm not a happy camper.


----------



## jtscherne

That's the way it always is with local broadcasting of ESPN games. ESPN has the exclusive rights to the the HD signal.


----------



## 8IronBob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All the set top boxes have component outs on them. PQ is just fine with component. Cox may have a box with DVI out but then you get into the problem of HDCP (copy protection) handshaking with your TV. In my case, the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box does not talk to my Panasonic plasma via DVI, I get an error message. So I use the component connection and I'm perfectly happy with it.
> 
> 
> Whatever you do, don't pay $100 for Monster cables at Best Buy, either component or DVI. It's overkill.



Yeah, I just got my HD Tuner from Cox today, it's a Scientific Atlanta 3250HD Explorer, and I did attach it via DVI (however, it receives it through a DVI Input using the PC button on my remote, as my Westy 32" recognizes it as). The DVI wasn't that expensive (just under $30 at Wal-Mart for a Philips DVI 6'). This has to be the first time I've ever seen WJW's newscast come in like this. I'm really impressed about the PQ with a DVI input. It's a little easier to hook up than a component, and it may be just as fast to respond. I only have 2 component inputs on my Westy, and I have a DVD Recorder/VCR Combo, and a Philips Home Theater to hook into those, so I needed those free. Other than that, I'm receiving HD without too much hassle. Just takes some learning with this cable box from Cox to get through all of this.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just checked titantv. Looks like WKYC will be broadcasting Sunday Night's Game in SD, while my ESPN-HD will get blacked out!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A perfectly good HD signal on ESPN that I won't be able to see.
> 
> 
> HD football for Browns fans really sucks.
> 
> 
> First the Buckeyes games get whacked NOW this. I'm not a happy camper.



The last time an ESPN game was broadcast locally was on WEWS in crappy SD. Fortunately my ESPN feed on E* was NOT blacked out.


Don't assume that ESPN is being blacked out (unless your STB has already told you the game is blacked out). In the history of the "new Browns" on Sunday Night football there has never been a time that ESPN was blacked out for me on Dish. Even the SD feed of the satelllite beat out WEWS. I'm happy to see WKYC getting this game. We'll see if they can do a better job than WEWS has done.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't assume that ESPN is being blacked out (unless your STB has already told you the game is blacked out). In the history of the "new Browns" on Sunday Night football there has never been a time that ESPN was blacked out for me on Dish. Even the SD feed of the satelllite beat out WEWS. I'm happy to see WKYC getting this game. We'll see if they can do a better job than WEWS has done.



I just checked zap2it and it shows it listed. It doesn't indicate blackout.


What I don't like about this is Law & Order, Crossing Jordan are going to be shoved back to some unknown time in the morning. How does WKYC think watching Pittsburgh beating the crap out of the Browns is going to increase their ratings? Most people will probably switch by the end of the first half.


----------



## SKoprowski

Any of the Youngstown stations covering the Steelers game? Maybe there is still hope for HD?


----------



## RussTC3

Anyone waching the Buckeyes on WEWS? I'm new to HD, so someone care to explain why it's not in HD? I'm assuming it's not HD, because MNF looks much better. It's not a bad picture, looks better than on my Dish, just curious.


We don't seem to get any local football in HD, between the Bucks and the Brownies.


Another thing, why does the stupid counter (at the top) have to be on every program that's upconverted SD?


That's annoying too.


Another question, if you dont mind. The EPG on my unit (Accurian HTS 6000) has the incorrect guide for every channel. The programming listed is correct, but the time is 1hr behind on everything.


Is this the unit, or the local stations?


----------



## Inundated

Re: Browns/Steelers - the Browns may stink, but they get ratings, good or bad, and that's why WKYC jumped on it. They'll make a load of money off of it, and get to tweak "The Home of the Browns", WOIO/19, in the process. It's a win-win for them.


The game should be available in HD on ESPNHD. As far as I know, they don't black that out either on satellite or cable.


Re: Buckeyes in HD - it happens, but very rarely. ABC, which has the rights to most of their games, doesn't do many regular season HD college football games. In fact, the only dependable over-air HD games each weekend are usually CBS' Saturday late afternoon SEC matchup, and NBC's Notre Dame package (home games in HD only, I believe). And even the last one is new this year.


----------



## jtscherne

I don't think anyone said anything about a blackout. Of course, ESPN will have it in HD. The original poster was complaining that WKYC wasn't showing the ESPN high definition feed.


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, NBCHD is also on the lineup as well as ESPNHD. So, we'll have to see which one of those are carrying the game. I'll have to run through my EPG from my cable box to see who will be carrying that game.


----------



## RussTC3

I've been switching between the news on Fox and Old School on ABC. Is it just me, or is Fox's signal much, much better?


I mean Old School looks good, DVD quality probably, but not that great.


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, I watched some PBS this morning with Niagara Falls, and with their signal, I almost felt like I was back at Fallsview all over again. I know that WVIZ's signal is amongst the best in the HD series. As for FOX, they had some real great reception with the NFL games at least. As for everything else, I really haven't watched too much other than the digital cable channels all day. I'll let you know how the Browns game comes in tonight, which I'll try either NBC or ESPN HD.


----------



## EricG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone said anything about a blackout. Of course, ESPN will have it in HD. The original poster was complaining that WKYC wasn't showing the ESPN high definition feed.



Actually, I don't care WHERE the HD signal comes from, as long as I get it.


A few weeks ago Channel 43 had the exclusive rights to the Buckeyes/Illinois game and the ESPN and ESPNHD channels WERE blacked out. The SD signal on CH43 was horrible. I just don't want to experience that for tonights game.


----------



## hookbill

Well, I saw the game on HD on ESPN through Adelphia. No blackout. Turned it on just in time to see the Steelers take a 10-7 lead.


So relax Cleveland....you got your Browns in HD...at least on my cable system.


I'm going to bed now. I'll find out how bad they got beat tomorrow.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another question, if you dont mind. The EPG on my unit (Accurian HTS 6000) has the incorrect guide for every channel. The programming listed is correct, but the time is 1hr behind on everything.
> 
> 
> Is this the unit, or the local stations?



Time Zone and Daylight Savings Time set correctly?

With the unit set to auto time I'm seeing the time

of some stations off a bit:

WOIO-DT 1:05 fast

WNEO-DT :10 fast

WEAO-DT :25 slow

the errors show up on the EPG...

If the Accurian maintained time during power

outages I'd leave it on manual...


Ed...


----------



## 8IronBob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I saw the game on HD on ESPN through Adelphia. No blackout. Turned it on just in time to see the Steelers take a 10-7 lead.
> 
> 
> So relax Cleveland....you got your Browns in HD...at least on my cable system.
> 
> 
> I'm going to bed now. I'll find out how bad they got beat tomorrow.



Well, I believe that ESPN HD had the better picture, because WKYC only carried the regular ESPN on their HD channel. It's always best to go straight to the source carrier of any game or show like this in order to get the best HD results.


----------



## Pucky

What really tweaks me is this Saturday afternoon there are four games you can watch in HD (Harvard-Yale (HDNet), Virginia Tech-Virginia (ESPN), Syracuse-ND (NBC), or Alabama-Auburn (CBS)), but not Ohio State-Michigan on ABC. Buckeyes games and Channel 5 in general just look terrible.


ESPN/ESPN2 is broadcasting five HD games this week alone (including Miami-BGSU), but their sister (parent?) company ABC is only broadcasting three regular season games all season long in HD. (I got that off one of their press releases this morning.)


----------



## EricG

Yes, it's been a bad year to be a Bucks and HD fan.


BTW, The Browns/Steelers game looked great on ESPN HD from DirecTV. The Browns still stink, but they look good at it.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The WKYC-DT feed looked much better than last year when WEWS carried the ESPN Sunday Night game.


As for other markets carrying ESPN OTA: only the home town station of the 2 teams can show the ESPN feed (in this case Cleveland and Pittsburgh). Youngstown OTA stations cannot show the ESPN feed. It's an NFL rule that the visiting team's home market has to have OTA access to all games. If there is a sell-out than the home team's station can carry the game as well. Other cities in the market areas have to get the feed via cable or DBS.


There has been exceptions in the past, however that was under extrene circumstances (an approaching hurricane). For example last year there was a second Sunday NIght game between Pittsburg and Miami, it was rescheduled due to one of the 4 hurricanes that hit FLA (forgot which storm it was). That game was carried on Youngstown's WKBN - becuse Youngstown is considered a part of Pittsburgh market (albeit a secondary area as they are a primary Browns area). I was able to watch that game on my Zenith "click tuner" that seems to DX better than the wimpy tuners they have been putting in TV's since "cable ready" became the standard. Anyway that game used CBS announcers and logos, but also had breakaways to ESPN SportsCenter (since another game was in progress on ESPN). This was very rare and I'm glad I got to see it.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I just noticed something - this forum's time stamp has not been changed for standard time! I just edited the above post at 6:49 PM but the time stams showed 7:49. The time on my computer is correct, so somethin is not set correctly on the forum's server.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just noticed something - this forum's time stamp has not been changed for standard time! I just edited the above post at 6:49 PM but the time stams showed 7:49. The time on my computer is correct, so somethin is not set correctly on the forum's server.



Funny it shows 6:49 on my computer.


----------



## paule123

I was not in Cleveland Sunday night, so I'm curious - did WKYC show the ESPN-HD feed? I'm not clear from everybody's posts whether WKYC was showing the SD ESPN feed or the HD feed.


Also, did WKYC have ESPN announcers or WKYC announcers?


Thanks.


----------



## Michael P 2341

WKYC-DT showed the ESPN SD feed stretched. It was clean and uncompressed, but not HD.

They ran promos for other ESPN programs as well as MNF on ABC (WKYC must have loved running that).


The same thing happened last year when WEWS carried the SNF game, only the picture was somewhat snowy.


The only "local" content was some commercials.


The ESPN HD feed was not blacked out on Dish Network. Cable and DirecTV YMMV


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

No local can show the HD feed of an ESPN Sunday Night Game.


----------



## Commodore 64

The first quarter looked awful.


The second quarter looked really nice, I thought it was in HD, but apparently that wasn't possible.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No local can show the HD feed of an ESPN Sunday Night Game.



Correct. The local rights to the ESPN "in-market" Sunday night games don't include HD. I don't know if this is technical or financial.


It could well be technical, as for example...if WKYC wanted to show the game in HD, if they had those rights, they'd have to someone get ESPN-HD's feed and convert it from 720p to 1080i. I don't know if they even HAVE such equipment in-house.


I wasn't in town Sunday night either, but in the past Adelphia has not blacked out ESPN-HD for Sunday night Browns games.


----------



## Rich Klim

Hello Everyone,


For the last week or so Fox (8 or 31) has had strong deviations in signal strenth causeng my HDTivo to pixalate, lock up etc. is anyone else experieceing this problem??


I have a Wineguard 7032 antenna mounted in the attic, wih a low gain/high output preamp.


All my other channes are fine


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rich Klim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> 
> For the last week or so Fox (8 or 31) has had strong deviations in signal strenth causeng my HDTivo to pixalate, lock up etc. is anyone else experieceing this problem??
> 
> 
> I have a Wineguard 7032 antenna mounted in the attic, wih a low gain/high output preamp.
> 
> 
> All my other channes are fine



No problems here OTA. 100% signal strength, as usual.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rich Klim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> 
> For the last week or so Fox (8 or 31) has had strong deviations in signal strenth causeng my HDTivo to pixalate, lock up etc. is anyone else experieceing this problem??
> 
> 
> I have a Wineguard 7032 antenna mounted in the attic, wih a low gain/high output preamp.
> 
> 
> All my other channes are fine



I too have had problems wth WJW-DT yesterday, and I'm only .8 of a mile from the transmitter. I usually get a signal strength of 120 (on the Echostar scale that tops out at 125). Last night I had a hard time locking onto the signal, it was fluxuating (I thought it was my antenna until I read your post).


----------



## JJkizak

Every time the weather fronts move in it raises hell with the signal strength on some digital stations as in my opinion they are not transmitting the equivalent power as the analog channels which hang in there like a rock. Low varying signal strength on a digital channel is virtually impossible to watch. That's when I switch back to analog. PBS is the worst for me in this regard and sometimes 61.1 and all the 17.1 stuff. WJW digital had one or two hiccups but not bad at all.


JJK


----------



## Rich Klim

Guys,


The reason for my comments is 8.1 was never like that, but this past week has been quite poor regardless of weather.


With my eqipment setup I was never lacking for signal strength but now 8.1 is all over the place


----------



## Michael P 2341

Maybe it's time to give the engineers at FOX 8 a call. Have they ever posted here? I know that "21 Cheif", the engineer at WFMJ in Youngstown posts here quite often. We need to get his counterparts at all the Cleveland stations to post here as well.


----------



## paule123

Ohio State/Michigan game (not HD) on WEWS looks horrible again, like the Ohio St. game about a month ago (maybe it's the same crappy truck?) Can hardly read the team names on the score ticker, and the 50 yard cam looks like garbage.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The scorebox graphic looks like garbage on the SD analog feed on cable too.


----------



## Gator80

Anyone experiencing signal problems with 5-1? Never had a problem until 2 weeks ago and now the signal strengh is jumping around all over the place. Was up on the roof this weekend trying to adjust it back in but had no luck.


dfm


----------



## JJkizak

The SD Ohio State game was terrible They are changing the 4 x 3 pixels to 15 x 9 pixels (not 16 x 9) stretching the crap out of it causing excessive blurring and ghosting. The aspect they are transmitting is also incorrect as the horizontal is being stretched more than the vertical causing fat people. The optical industry has spent billions perfecting and reducing linear aspect distortion (lower than 1 %) in their lenses and one stupid tv station has managed to set us back 100 years.


JJK


----------



## WJW Engineer

Last week, WJW experienced a failure of one of it's three transmitter tubes for ch.31. Until we can get it replaced, we'll be at about half power.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last week, WJW experienced a failure of one of it's three transmitter tubes for ch.31. Until we can get it replaced, we'll be at about half power.



Thank you for your post. I live only .8 of a mile from your trransmitter and have been experiencing dropouts. This may explain the problems I have been having.


----------



## Inundated

Updates on various things:


* If WJW-DT is on half-power, I can't tell here...they're as strong as usual on my home setup (amplified indoor antenna, 2nd floor loft in northwest Akron, about 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm). No dropouts that I've seen, at least so far. This is tonight...maybe they got that transmitter tube today.










* As mentioned over in the Youngstown thread, WEAO-DT has split into four subchannels. 50.1 is apparently a placeholder for the HD feed of PBS shows (presumably only used in prime time). 50.2 is the SD simulcast, 50.3 is the new (SD) channel with time-shifted repeats, kids shows, etc., and 50.4 is the Ohio Channel.


* For whatever reason, WOIO-DT is running David Letterman in upconverted SD tonight. It's a new show (topical material in the monologue).


----------



## Inundated

Just a minute ago, WOIO flipped to HD for Letterman.


----------



## JJkizak

What tube types do you use? Are they vacuum tubes or Klystrons? What is the power rating on each tube? Do you have to phase it in with the other tubes?


JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updates on various things:
> 
> 
> * If WJW-DT is on half-power, I can't tell here...they're as strong as usual on my home setup (amplified indoor antenna, 2nd floor loft in northwest Akron, about 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm). No dropouts that I've seen, at least so far. This is tonight...maybe they got that transmitter tube today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * As mentioned over in the Youngstown thread, WEAO-DT has split into four subchannels. 50.1 is apparently a placeholder for the HD feed of PBS shows (presumably only used in prime time). 50.2 is the SD simulcast, 50.3 is the new (SD) channel with time-shifted repeats, kids shows, etc., and 50.4 is the Ohio Channel.
> 
> 
> * For whatever reason, WOIO-DT is running David Letterman in upconverted SD tonight. It's a new show (topical material in the monologue).



The reason I had dropouts on WJW-DT may have to do with the aluminum siding on my house. While I try to keep my antennas looking out a window, not all stations are in a direction where I have a window. For example the only way I can see WVIZ-DT is by runing a long coax to my patio door. The signal drops to 0 as soon as a wall gets between my antenna and WVIZ. I do not have the same problem with the full-power stations.


Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ? The new line up for 50 is:

50.1: blank for now, even during prime time

50.2: WEAO "main feed" (i.e. same as analog 49)

50.3: The Annenberg/CPB Channel (educational videos for credit classes)

50.4: The Ohio Channel (same as WVIZ's 25.2)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ?



I noticed that on my USB tuner card, yes. And I wonder if they don't quite have the HD stuff fixed yet, but wanted to go ahead and set up the new system anyway?


----------



## ZManCartFan

Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.



Here, 50-2 (SD simulcast) looks on sync, but -3 and -4 are both off as you describe. It's unnerving.


50-1, by the way, shows up on my digital tuner card as 1080i, so one presumes that's where the HD will land whenever they get it up and running.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.



Not yesterday, however WEAO has been notoriusly out-of-sync on many occasions ever since I first had an ASTC tuner (one year ago this month, BTW).


----------



## EricG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.



50-3 and 50-4 ??


I'm only getting -1,-2 and the guide data on DirecTiVo still says, "Regular Programming for both channels all the time.


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 50-3 and 50-4 ??
> 
> 
> I'm only getting -1,-2 and the guide data on DirecTiVo still says, "Regular Programming for both channels all the time.



Rescan. There have been a few changes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rescan. There have been a few changes.



I don't know if the DirecTV folks can rescan or not, or if they are dependent on guide data from the satellite provider.


----------



## RussTC3

Ah. My bad.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ah. My bad.



No, my comment above was actually a question, in a way...I *don't* know if the DirecTV folks can rescan OTA channels or not







I know the guide data comes down the satellite from the provider, but I don't know if they can rescan independently of this. I'm guessing no, particularly on the DirecTivo, which is dependent on the program guide to record...


Any D* folks with an answer to this? I seem to recall you have to badger the D* folks to get them to fix stuff like this...


----------



## ZManCartFan

I don't know about the DirecTivo (I'm holding out for the Mpeg-4 version for the HD locals), but on my older Sony HD DirecTV receiver, rescanning is just as easy as any other model. Basically the only difference between DirecTV receivers and cable receivers is that the DirecTV one decodes the satellite signals and the cable box decodes the cable signals. Otherwise, both generally have OTA digital and analog tuners built-in that function separately from the pay-service side.


Happy Thanksgiving everyone!


----------



## Tom in OH

The HDTivo seems to add and remove channels at will. Curiously, the guide has never shown data on the PBS channels in the 50s. As noted before, they have to be entered manually(a pain) which has always made me wonder if most people don't know they're even there. I found them, thx to u guys and a lil' trial&error. Unfortunately, none of them are coming in today or yesterday(50-2,3,4)and I'm thinking the recent change might've dropped power.


----------



## EricG

Tom-


I rescanned today and my DirecTiVo found 50-2 and -3 that it hadn't had before. I have also never seen valid guide data for this channel. I've spoken to the engineer at WNEO as well as level 2 tech support at DirecTV. Neither know why it is like this. I NEED guide data for the DVR features of the DirecTiVo to be usefull. Who else can I call to get this working properly??


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom-
> 
> 
> I rescanned today and my DirecTiVo found 50-2 and -3 that it hadn't had before. I have also never seen valid guide data for this channel. I've spoken to the engineer at WNEO as well as level 2 tech support at DirecTV. Neither know why it is like this. I NEED guide data for the DVR features of the DirecTiVo to be usefull. Who else can I call to get this working properly??



Wish I could help you solve the problem, but FWIW, my Sony box has the same issues on 50.x. I've never had valid guide data for any of them, but curiously, the valid guide data did show up on 49.x. Of course this was before they added -3 and -4, and the guide data for 49.x is now gone.


I've always heard that the guide data on DirecTV boxes came from the satellite - even on the local digitals. I don't believe the boxes get the data from the PSIP info at all.


----------



## paule123

Watching the Cavs game tonight on WUAB-DT, the PQ is pretty good (although not HD), looks like they have an all-digital path from the arena to the station. (unlike the hideous crap PQ on the ABC college football game right now)


The Cavs game score bug is ridiculously large. Almost takes up the whole lower left quarter of the screen !


----------



## paule123

Got a letter today from Wide Open West. Rates going up Jan 2006.


Digital basic (no premium channels, STARZ included) - $56.99 (increase of $3.00/mo)

add the HD DVR (the POS SA8000HD) - 12.99

add the HD tier - 9.99

plus taxes, my total bill will be $83.95/mo

Call me crazy, but that's crazy, for basic cable with no premiums!


What are you Adelphia folks paying?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

84 a month for TV? Makes me happy I still just have an antenna.


What would dish plus an antenna cost you?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watching the Cavs game tonight on WUAB-DT, the PQ is pretty good (although not HD), looks like they have an all-digital path from the arena to the station. (unlike the hideous crap PQ on the ABC college football game right now)
> 
> 
> The Cavs game score bug is ridiculously large. Almost takes up the whole lower left quarter of the screen !



That scoreboard pisses me off like no other. Its not like it is even filled with info. Its just the team names, score, and time. It could be 1/3 the size and still legible.


----------



## Inundated

I'd have to pull out my most recent Adelphia bill to break out the non-Internet cost, but the entire thing is pushing $120ish (including HSI). That includes HDTV tier and one 8000HD DVR.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 84 a month for TV? Makes me happy I still just have an antenna.
> 
> 
> What would dish plus an antenna cost you?




DirecTV would be $10/mo cheaper, but then I'd have to buy the HD DVR ($1000?)

and currently D*'s HD service sux, and no HD locals until sometime next year. I'm not going to even attempt OTA HD again, I lost most of my hair doing that


----------



## Jim Gilliland

It's hard to compare them directly. My basic monthly charge is $106, but that includes my internet service. Basic cable, plus digital cable, plus internet adds up to $88. Then you add $5 for HD Plus, $8 for the HD DVR, and $5 more for DVR Service. So it's pretty darned expensive.


I have no idea how much Adelphia charges for standalone Internet service. Someday I may find out - there is less and less on cable that holds any interest for me. So I could go back to pure OTA with little hardship. But I'd still need the internet.


----------



## Tom in OH

looks like cable is pretty pricey for most of us. Time Warner here.


Basic analog cable + extended basic(includes cartoon network, weather channel..etc but no premiums and not digital)

+ internet = $94.94 total

(includes $10 off of internet w/cable tv sub)


----------



## jtscherne

Long term programming note:


The Indians will face the Chicago White Sox on Sunday, April 2nd on ESPN2 to open the 2006 major league baseball season. And yes, I'm sure the game will be in HD.


----------



## DaMavs

So is MNF on 5.1 breaking up for anyone else? I'm receiving OTA and I've been getting fairly regular dropouts on voice and audio. It's not so bad that I've gone to the SD feed, but it's quite annoying.


Just wondering if it could be my setup or if it's just WEWS typical attempt at hosing up HD to frustrate the consumer & encourage us not to watch their programming...


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So is MNF on 5.1 breaking up for anyone else? I'm receiving OTA and I've been getting fairly regular dropouts on voice and audio. It's not so bad that I've gone to the SD feed, but it's quite annoying.
> 
> 
> Just wondering if it could be my setup or if it's just WEWS typical attempt at hosing up HD to frustrate the consumer & encourage us not to watch their programming...



Absolutely rock solid for me in Medina using OTA. No dropouts or breakups at all. Signal strength is not moving and is about 98%.


----------



## Inundated

For what it's worth, several folks complained of audio dropouts in different markets on MNF tonight. (I didn't watch, so I have no idea...)


It may well be a receiver-related issue, as just as we see above here, the reports vary even within the same market.


----------



## DaMavs

Thanks for the responses ZMan & Inundated. I was using an HD Tivo OTA to receive.


5.1 tends to be my biggest problem station for dropouts. Guess I need to play around w/my antenna angles to see if I can increase signal strength some (although it's usually fairly good signal strength wise) & maybe drop it directly into my TV's tuner as a further experiment ('course doing that cuts down my signal another 3dB - a conundrum) to see if it's perhaps tuner related.


Whenever 5.1 flakes I just presume it's their problem nowadays, but perhaps that's not true unfortunately...


Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I just had my tv serviced as part of the warranty from HH Greg. It was just an annual cleaning. Fixed convergence, fun stuff like that.


The guy also showed me how to get in the service menu, adjusted some of the geometry and whatnot. Did a lot more than he was supposed to.


I think the guys name was Rey (or that was his initials) and he worked for Electra-sound. He did such a good job and was so helpful I figured I would post here and let you guys know of the good service. If you have any problems and are not under warranty you should check them out.


Stu


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DirecTV would be $10/mo cheaper, but then I'd have to buy the HD DVR ($1000?)
> 
> and currently D*'s HD service sux, and no HD locals until sometime next year. I'm not going to even attempt OTA HD again, I lost most of my hair doing that



You should be able to get the HD Tivo for significantly less than $1K now - I picked up a 2nd one recently for $299 after rebate and got enough programming concessions kicked in that it was only around $100. As a new subscriber I'd guess you could do even better.


Now the HD locals are likely a bigger concern, especially if an antenna is a no go for you. Given that, I'd wait until the MPEG4 rollout locally and see how they compare then.


I haven't found D*'s HD service to be that bad overall. I wish they had TNT-HD and more of the movie channels in HD. Although if I hadn't bought in already, I'd likely wait for MPEG4 locally to commit when you'll have local capabilities and likely/hopefully more national HD networks available.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 84 a month for TV? Makes me happy I still just have an antenna.
> 
> 
> What would dish plus an antenna cost you?



I have Dish Network "E*". I have the "Top-120" package and do not pay for the "LIL's" Cleveland locals since I live in the antenna farm and get them OTA for free via the 921. I have a E* DVR-921. There is a $4.98/mo DVR fee that they waive if you get the "Everything Pack" (I believe it's around $80 but it includes every premium service).


Top-120 w/DVR fee minus LIL's plus Ohio tax = $45.34


Keep in mind that I have to enter my timers manually for the OTA stations. In order toget guide data from the satellite I'd have to subscribe to the LIL's (which are SD with no subchannels and are no where near as good as the OTA feeds). Add $5.98 for the Cleveland LIL's.


I had the LIL's briefly. It's not worth $5.98 for me becuse whith the exception of WBNX, everything else comes in digitally OTA. Also we have the same problem with the PBS channels guide data that was mentioned above. The reason for the problem is the satellite guides only have the analog station's guide data. For WVIZ none of their digital services carry the same programs as 25-0, for WNEO/WEAO 50-2 is the same program as analog 49-0. All other local broadcasters use the "-1" channel as the mirror of the analog station.


I wish E* (and D* for that matter) would use PSIP data for all OTA integrated EPG's.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DirecTV would be $10/mo cheaper, but then I'd have to buy the HD DVR ($1000?)
> 
> and currently D*'s HD service sux, and no HD locals until sometime next year. I'm not going to even attempt OTA HD again, I lost most of my hair doing that



OTA is the only way to go! There is no compression artifacts on OTA (well except for "The Tube" on WUAB 43-2). You should be able to get great reception in Shaker Hts.


----------



## kalon74

Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?


Mike


----------



## jtscherne

Since the Browns are in the AFC, their games are almost always on CBS. CBS only shows a few games in HD each week. Since the browns matchups are usually pretty far down the list in priority, they aren't usually in HD. The two games on Fox, plus the Sunday night ESPN games were in HD (I think the Indy game was too), but given their schedule for the rest of the season, I doubt any of the remaining games will be in HD, except possibly the second Pittsburgh game.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kalon74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?
> 
> 
> Mike



The basic reason is that most of the Browns games are on CBS, which only telecasts 3 games in HD. CBS telecasts the AFC, Fox has the NFC. When the Browns are on Fox, they are in HD.


----------



## Inundated

And the good news, if not for now...


All indications are that all NFL games will be in HD in 2006-on, including all CBS games. So, this situation won't last beyond this year.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kalon74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?
> 
> 
> Mike



It's because they are in the AFC which is carried on CBS. This season FOX has outdone CBS in the HD arena. There were only 2 Browns games on FOX this season. The only time the Browns will be on FOX is when the visiting team is in the NFC.


----------



## ajstan99

Yesterday the following e-mail was sent out by WVIZ. Looks like we're going to have to wait at least until summer for the North Royalton tower to go live.


-----------------------------------------

_First of all I want to thank all of you for your continuing interest in WVIZ/PBS's digital channel. Unfortunately the issues at our main transmitting tower in North Royalton still are not resolved. I feel that resolution is very close and I hope we can begin our full power DTV transmission project by the first of the year. The project should take about six months to complete.


As you know we have been broadcasting a low power DTV signal from our studio location on Brookpark Road. (It's near the State Road exit on I-480 if your trying to point a directional antenna.) The low power signal makes it difficult to receive WVIZ-DT from a distance.


Thank you to those of you who pointed out that our web site had old information on it. Hopefully that will be updated very shortly after you read this message.


I ask for your understanding and patience as we struggle to get our full power DTV on the air.


Gary Bluhm

Director of Engineering_


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's because they are in the AFC which is carried on CBS. This season FOX has outdone CBS in the HD arena. There were only 2 Browns games on FOX this season. The only time the Browns will be on FOX is when the visiting team is in the NFC.



What's the matter? You didn't think the two previous identical responses were clear enough for Michael P 2341 to understand?


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You and me both!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I've got the same one in my sights...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that really stunk, because I actually know someone who had a minor (off-screen) involvement in that movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Rant mode...ON!)
> 
> 
> Is there something wrong with WEWS to begin with? This afternoon, I had the pleasure, uh, of watching the Ohio State/Minnesota game on that station. Of course, the game wasn't in HD (and I wasn't expecting it to be), but the SD upconvert STUNK. It looked like they were upconverting a ghost-laden analog signal from out of town! I'll tell you how bad it was...WOIO/WUAB's SD upconvert was better. (And 19/43's is the worst in the market. By the way, in "true HD", it looks embarrassing.)
> 
> 
> The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top. It was "OHIO ST. " ("I think, because it kinda looks like OHIO ST.") vs. a mess of letters that could very well be MINN, or MISS, or MIWW, or WIMM, or whatever. I honestly did not know which team the Buckeyes were playing until someone mentioned their name on the broadcast.
> 
> 
> This is bad enough on my old SD/downconverted to 480i set upstairs. On the new HD setup I have, it was downright TV criminal.
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, there appears to be no problem with WEWS' SD upconvert of NewsChannel 5 at 11 tonight, with no "ghosting" on the graphics. Maybe there's an ABC network related problem? I should check the Programming boards...
> 
> 
> (Rant mode OFF!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (re: WOAC-DT 47)
> 
> 
> Yeah, I saw they have an STA out there, and I'm guessing I was picking that up with my amplified indoor antenna. The signal wasn't nearly powerful enough for 1000KW. When they do go to that, they'll likely blow my tuner out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you're right, they're physically located, for us Akron types, away from the other stations. Parma is northwest of here, Copley (WEAO et al.) is west-southwest for me, and Brimfield is east-southeast for me. I should still get it well due to the close distance, even off the back end of the antenna.
> 
> 
> BTW, from what I remember, they're either co-located or across Rt. 43 from WNIR/100.1's stick and WAOH-LP 29...the analog stick for 67 used to be up the hill from Belden Village Mall, but has probably moved since then.




No, they are located in Brimfield near Rt 43 an I-76.... northeast of the intersection. 500' tower.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, they are located in Brimfield near Rt 43 an I-76.... northeast of the intersection. 500' tower.



Correct..as I noted, across from WNIR/WAOH-LP 29, which is on the northwest corner of that interchange.


Or do you mean that WOAC's analog 67 is up there now as well?


----------



## clevemkt

The WOAC analog has been there since mid-90's. Sorry, when you said WNIR/TV 29, I was thinking of their studio and radio transmitter site on RT 59 near Wal-Mart


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The WOAC analog has been there since mid-90's. Sorry, when you said WNIR/TV 29, I was thinking of their studio and radio transmitter site on RT 59 near Wal-Mart



Ah, so WOAC moved it up there while I was living in California. I remember when they were up on the hill on Fulton Road behind Belden Village, and I could see their tower from the window at Sears...but the signal from that tower was snowy on the TVs inside the store.


Yeah, WNIR's stick used to be at their studio along Rt. 59. They moved it down to the Rt. 43/I-76 location a few years ago...I believe roughly at the same time they upgraded to their current power level. The sticks you see now at the Rt. 59 "Broadcast Park" studio site are solely for the mighty (cough, cough) WJMP/1520, that 1000 watt directional daytimer currently running Fox Sports Radio.


I'm pretty sure TV 29 has always been at 76/43.


----------



## Inundated

Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?


It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.


----------



## jtscherne

It's either an ABC or WEWS problem. They just switched to SD.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?
> 
> 
> It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's either an ABC or WEWS problem. They just switched to SD.



Nobody else in the thread in HDTV Programming was reporting the breakups I saw, though others had problems when WEWS did not.


And that SD upconvert is just as bad as it usually is during ABC's CFB. Ugh!


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?
> 
> 
> It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.



I switched over to Youngstown's 33-1 on OTA and it is fine. Looks like a WEWS problem to me.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the matter? You didn't think the two previous identical responses were clear enough for Michael P 2341 to understand?



Excuuuuse me! The original post (Kalan74) was on a previous page. I never saw yours or jtscherne's posts when I replied.


Besides, after reading the other 2 posts, neither of you mentioned when the Browns could be seen on FOX, the leader in HD sports.


----------



## kalon74




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And the good news, if not for now...
> 
> 
> All indications are that all NFL games will be in HD in 2006-on, including all CBS games. So, this situation won't last beyond this year.



Where did you get this info? I really hope it's true!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excuuuuse me! The original post (Kalan74) was on a previous page. I never saw yours or jtscherne's posts when I replied.
> 
> 
> Besides, after reading the other 2 posts, neither of you mentioned when the Browns could be seen on FOX, the leader in HD sports.



That's why you need to read on to see if a response is posted. Sorry if I offended you, we've all done it from time to time.


As to the second part of your statement it appears that The Browns are not going to be on FOX anymore this season. There is a schedule here for you to look at what's upcoming at FOX.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kalon74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where did you get this info? I really hope it's true!



Ken H, a moderator here on AVS Forum who's really plugged into various TV-related sources, has stated this repeatedly in the NFL-related threads in the HDTV Programming section...all NFL games will be in HD in 2006. FOX is almost there already, and I presume that means CBS will come around as well. NBC will be HD for Sunday Night Football next season.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, WEWS-DT finally fixed whatever was wrong, and went back to full HD at halftime of that game...and are in HD for the second game.


(Even WEWS-DT's upconverted SD was messed up earlier, during infomercials...and at one point they were even off the air.)


And CBS' Navy/Army is in HD on WOIO-DT, as well!


----------



## Speedskater

*Receiving Canadian Digital Stations in Cleveland ?*


Has anyone had any luck or grief receiving Canadian digital stations?

Why? The Winter Olympics are rapidly approaching!

US TV coverage is for the most part, Figure Skating, Hockey and any event a US competitor medals in. The Canadian coverage is much more in depth and even across all sports. In the past I tried to receive the Windsor analog station on channel 9 (or10) but channel 8 just blows it away. Hi-def is not a factor.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And CBS' Navy/Army is in HD on WOIO-DT, as well!



For all the complaints about a lack of HD programming, we've come a long way, given that ALL Division I games on TV today are in HD, including ABC, CBS, and ESPN.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone had any luck or grief receiving Canadian digital stations?



At this point, the only Canadian DT stations are in major markets like Toronto and Vancouver. As far as I know, the Windsor and London stations don't even have their DT sticks up yet.


The Windsor analog is 9...the London analog is 10. That may or may not play havoc with WOIO-DT 10 (or vice versa) in parts of Northern Ohio. I never got CFPL/10 here in Akron, so I don't know how bad the problem is.


I know you can get the Toronto DTs, especially the digital CBCer, in Buffalo/Niagara Falls, but that's about it.


----------



## akron05

Hey everyone! As far as HDTV I'm just now researching and shopping, but reading these forums has brought up a point, really a peeve.


As we all know, Akron is one of the largest cities nationwide to not have it's own DMA (designated market area). Newark, NJ is another city like this. They say it's because we're so close to Cleveland, and that makes SOME sense.


However, Dayton is almost as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland and they've got I think every major network affiliate except maybe WB or UPN. If we were to call it the Akron/Canton DMA it would be a good bit larger than Dayton's DMA.


Baltimore and Washington are as close together and each have their own. Yeah, they're both more similar in size but easily could have shared a Baltimore-Washington DMA if it had worked out that way.


Who agrees here? It does suck to turn on the news and get all this crap from Cleveland, nothing against Cleveland but news from Akron and Canton would be nice. Yeah, I know Pax 23 had one for a while but that was about it.


Does anyone know-


why

how

who decided


with regards to this? Was it basically by chance, or market forces at work or what?


Of course I've seen a nationwide map of the market areas and some of the ones out West are ridiculous-the entire state of Utah in SLC's, others that wrap entirely around another...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know-
> 
> 
> why
> 
> how
> 
> who decided
> 
> 
> with regards to this? Was it basically by chance, or market forces at work or what?



I think about this one a lot.


Akron/Canton has enough TV stations to be its own separate market. Between 17, 23, 49, 55 and 67, there's enough for all of the "big four" commercial networks plus PBS.


Perhaps the biggest obstacle is rather simple. Since Cleveland's TV stations are all transmitting from the Parma antenna farm, that means they put a clear signal into Akron/Canton.


So, blame Lake Erie, for there are no "northern suburbs" of Cleveland (aside from way out east/west), and the TV sticks aren't 20 miles further north...


----------



## Michael P 2341

In a word - economics. Are there enough advetising dollars in the Akron/Canton area to warrent a seperate network affilliate? There used to be an ABC affilliate in Akron, why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon? Probably because there was too much competition from WEWS.


When WAKR first went on the air I heard that WEWS insisted that WAKR make their signal non-existant for Cuyahoga County. That is why to this day both ch 23 and 49 (the original WAKR channel for your youngsters too young to rember) are in the "shadow" of Richfield, which is 200' higher than most parts of Cuyahoga County. I could not get 23 & 49 clearly in the highest part of Seven Hills. I only now get them due south of the antenna farm in Southeastern Parma, since I got out of the "shadow". When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with a beaut of an analog signal. They should have done the same for 23. Maybe they will once it goes digital.


IIRC Youngstown used to be a "secondary market" within the Cleveland market (according to old TV guides I saw from the 60's) as Akron/Canton is today. The difference is today Youngstown is now a seperate DMA. I guess that extra distance matters.


Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.


Almost forgot about 55. WBNX identifies itself as "CLEVELAND's WB", it just happens to be licensed to Akron, just as WUAB is licensed to Lorain and WOIO is licensed to Shaker Hts. BTW: Ironically WBNX's stick is one of the NORTHERNMOST sticks here in the tennafarm, it's firmly planted in the Cleveland DMA.


If you want seperate network affilliates in Akron/Canton try tuning into the Youngstown affilliates and pray that Neilsen asks you to do a survey. That DMA needs all the eyeballs it can get, several years ago it lost Armstrong County PA (New Castle) to the Pittsburgh DMA despite being next door to Youngstown.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.



Oh, I know today's market conditions are different - but I'm just adding up all the market allocations that would be in the hypothetical Akron/Canton market.


BTW, WDLI/17 is a commercial license. TBN never changed the FCC designation:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67893 


And of course, both 17 and 67 used to be locally-programmed commercial stations, back in the day. In my "market from scratch" list, only 49 is a non-comm. 17, 23, 55 and 67 are commercial. Then, of course, there are LPTVers in both Akron and Canton - WAOH/29 in Akron and WIVM/52 in Canton - both operating as commercial independents.


No, as stated in BOTH directions, the problem is Akron/Canton's proximity to Cleveland. There'd certainly be enough for a low-top-100 TV market here, more than Youngstown/Warren at any rate, and at the time such a market could have been "created", Youngstown/Warren AND Akron/Canton were in better economic shape - especially Y-Town.


Simply put, if the Akron/Canton market *started* at, say, just south of downtown Canton, and the southern end was past Dover/New Philadelphia, it'd probably be its own standalone market. But with full-power Cleveland stations being closer to some of the Akron suburbs than they are to some of the Cleveland suburbs, it just would never have happened.


And without that proximity to Cleveland, stations like WAKR-to-WAKC/23 wouldn't have been competing with Cleveland for TV advertising dollars.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon?



The owners of WAKR/WAKC sold out to Valuevision

for around $6 million who sold to Paxson for around

$24 million...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the
> 
> transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with
> 
> a beaut of an analog signal.



Whitehead Media bought Canton's 67 and moved the

transmitter as close to Cleveland as technically

possible... It's now owned by Scripps (WEWS/Food/HGTV/DIY)...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They should have done the same for 23. Maybe
> 
> they will once it goes digital.



There's a channel 23 in East Lansing Michigan...

Read that WVPX-DT 59 has a Canadian coordination delay...

Is this true??


Ed...


----------



## clevemkt

I think part of the delay is that PAX doesn't want to build out on 59 (an out-of-core channel) then turn around and move to another in-core channel. They may be waiting for the second round filings to get in-core. I understand that they have a channel 59 antenna on the ground at their transmitter site (been there for several years).


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a word - economics. Are there enough advetising dollars in the Akron/Canton area to warrent a seperate network affilliate? There used to be an ABC affilliate in Akron, why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon? Probably because there was too much competition from WEWS.
> 
> 
> When WAKR first went on the air I heard that WEWS insisted that WAKR make their signal non-existant for Cuyahoga County. That is why to this day both ch 23 and 49 (the original WAKR channel for your youngsters too young to rember) are in the "shadow" of Richfield, which is 200' higher than most parts of Cuyahoga County. I could not get 23 & 49 clearly in the highest part of Seven Hills. I only now get them due south of the antenna farm in Southeastern Parma, since I got out of the "shadow". When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with a beaut of an analog signal. They should have done the same for 23. Maybe they will once it goes digital.
> 
> 
> IIRC Youngstown used to be a "secondary market" within the Cleveland market (according to old TV guides I saw from the 60's) as Akron/Canton is today. The difference is today Youngstown is now a seperate DMA. I guess that extra distance matters.
> 
> 
> Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.
> 
> 
> Almost forgot about 55. WBNX identifies itself as "CLEVELAND's WB", it just happens to be licensed to Akron, just as WUAB is licensed to Lorain and WOIO is licensed to Shaker Hts. BTW: Ironically WBNX's stick is one of the NORTHERNMOST sticks here in the tennafarm, it's firmly planted in the Cleveland DMA.
> 
> 
> If you want seperate network affilliates in Akron/Canton try tuning into the Youngstown affilliates and pray that Neilsen asks you to do a survey. That DMA needs all the eyeballs it can get, several years ago it lost Armstrong County PA (New Castle) to the Pittsburgh DMA despite being next door to Youngstown.



There would be enough dollars, I think, if Akron were located in Stark Co. and Canton in Tusc. That extra bit of distance would make the difference. Even had that been the case an Akron/Youngstown/Canton market may have arisen.


It's just that Akron and Canton consider themselves more linked as a community to one another than they do to Cleveland.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For all the complaints about a lack of HD programming, we've come a long way, given that ALL Division I games on TV today are in HD, including ABC, CBS, and ESPN.



I don't believe that is a true statement. A recent example of a D1 game not in HD was the Ohio State/Michigan game on ABC. Tons of complaints on the forum about that. From what I saw over the course of the season, the majority were not in HD. CBS did one SEC game a week, the Notre Dame game on NBC was in HD, and ESPN usually did one a week. ABC actually did only a few games during the season from what I saw. I wish it were true. Maybe next year.

Steve


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, I know today's market conditions are different - but I'm just adding up all the market allocations that would be in the hypothetical Akron/Canton market.
> 
> 
> BTW, WDLI/17 is a commercial license. TBN never changed the FCC designation:
> 
> 
> 
> And of course, both 17 and 67 used to be locally-programmed commercial stations, back in the day. In my "market from scratch" list, only 49 is a non-comm. 17, 23, 55 and 67 are commercial. Then, of course, there are LPTVers in both Akron and Canton - WAOH/29 in Akron and WIVM/52 in Canton - both operating as commercial independents.
> 
> 
> No, as stated in BOTH directions, the problem is Akron/Canton's proximity to Cleveland. There'd certainly be enough for a low-top-100 TV market here, more than Youngstown/Warren at any rate, and at the time such a market could have been "created", Youngstown/Warren AND Akron/Canton were in better economic shape - especially Y-Town.
> 
> 
> Simply put, if the Akron/Canton market *started* at, say, just south of downtown Canton, and the southern end was past Dover/New Philadelphia, it'd probably be its own standalone market. But with full-power Cleveland stations being closer to some of the Akron suburbs than they are to some of the Cleveland suburbs, it just would never have happened.
> 
> 
> And without that proximity to Cleveland, stations like WAKR-to-WAKC/23 wouldn't have been competing with Cleveland for TV advertising dollars.



I find it interesting that Dover/New Philadelphia are counted in Cleveland's DMA when you can get a much better signal from Wheeling/Steubenville and even occasionally Columbus than Cleveland in many areas down there.


----------



## hookbill

I really wish FOX would present MLB on Saturdays in HD. Hope that's coming soon.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really wish FOX would present MLB on Saturdays in HD. Hope that's coming soon.



When they start showing other than BoSox and Yankees games, then I'll care... It'll be interesting to see if the world champion Chicago White Sox get more national air time next year from the likes of Fox and ESPN, or if the Boston/New York broadcast conspiracy will continue.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe that is a true statement.



I believe the original poster meant that all of the games _this past Saturday_ were in HD. I don't think anybody would believe that all of the games on every channel all season long were in HD.


----------



## hdtv4prs

I live about 35 to 40 miles south from stations in the Cleveland area. Just recently got the Sony 42" A10 hdtv and the Directv R-10/ DVR combo. I have an old rat-shack antenna and pre-amp (about 20 yrs. old) mounted on a 30' tower with a rotor. Pleased with the HD pics fom channels : vhf 3.1,5.1 uhf 19.1,43.1,50.2. I would like to get a new UHF/VHF antenna with a pre-amp if neccesary and all new coax and rotor wires.

I looked at the following: CM 3679 UHF/VHF combo with the CM 7777 Titan 2 pre-amp, CM 9521A rotor. Reading that some stations may move to VHF in the future, is one reason that I would prefer a UHF/VHF combo. Zip code is 44646. Antennaweb.org has antenna type violet for the 19.1 vhf at 39 miles and UHF channel 41 at 47.2 miles for the stations most distant.


Any suggestions if I should get the above combo?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe the original poster meant that all of the games _this past Saturday_ were in HD. I don't think anybody would believe that all of the games on every channel all season long were in HD.



My apologies to the original poster. I think I must have somehow interpreted "today" in a broader sense. Makes perfect sense now that I reread his post.


----------



## rickw6605

I'm buying a TV for my parents for Christmas. They have digital cable now, but I'm thinking of an analog vs. digital connection since it'll be used primarily in a bedroom when one of them can't sleep during the night. My question is can I split a line off their current connections and run it to the TV without using a set top box? Any info will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rickw6605* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm buying a TV for my parents for Christmas. They have digital cable now, but I'm thinking of an analog vs. digital connection since it'll be used primarily in a bedroom when one of them can't sleep during the night. My question is can I split a line off their current connections and run it to the TV without using a set top box? Any info will be greatly appreciated.



Sure, you basically have two options:

Option 1. Split the cable somewhere before it goes into the cable box, and run a cable to the new TV. New TV will be able to watch any of the analog channels (roughly channels 1 to 87) New TV will not be able to see any of the digital cable channels (unless it is CableCard equipped, and that's another story). If the new TV is an HD set and has QAM tuner capability, you should be able to see the free major TV networks that Comcast carries in HD.


Option 2. Split the cable connection between your cable box and the existing TV, then tune the new TV to channel 3 or 4. The new TV will only be able to watch whatever the person is watching on the cable box.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I find it interesting that Dover/New Philadelphia are counted in Cleveland's DMA when you can get a much better signal from Wheeling/Steubenville and even occasionally Columbus than Cleveland in many areas down there.



At least one of the local radio stations in that region - Dover/New Philly - features the "Storm Team 9 Forecast" from Steubenville's WTOV/9.


----------



## Pucky

We'll see more of Indians next year

Deal adds cable, 'free' TV telecasts

Tuesday, December 06, 2005

Roger Brown

Plain Dealer Reporter

The Indians will soon announce they've signed new TV deals with WKYC Channel 3 and Time Warner Cable -- a package creating a team-run regional sports network that will show most game telecasts, beginning this season.


The Indians' TV package will likely see 130 games on the new regional sports network carried on Time Warner cable outlets throughout Northeast Ohio.


Meanwhile, WKYC will air 20 or so games, primarily on weekends. It will mark the first time since 2001 -- when WUAB Channel 43 last aired Indians games -- that a "free TV" station will have local telecast rights.


"We're working on it and we should have something shortly," said Dennis Lehman, the Indians' vice president for business.


The Indians' new deal ends their 16-season partnership with cable network FSN Ohio, which had been the sole local TV home since 2002.


With their new regional network, the Indians reportedly expect to double the estimated $16.5 million they received each year from FSN Ohio.


The Indians are also following the lead of some 30 major-league teams in various sports who want maximum revenue and exposure from their TV rights, said Lee H. Berke, a Shaker Heights native and president of LHB Sports, Entertainment & Media, Inc., based in Scarsdale, N.Y.


Berke, whose company helped the New York Yankees put together their highly successful YES Network in March 2002 a regional sports outlet now valued at an estimated $1.1 billion said the Indians' network should be a "win-win-win arrangement" for Time Warner, the Indians and Indians fans.


Berke says Time Warner, which will soon assume control of area Adelphia Cable outlets, "gets to make a substantial splash in Northeast Ohio" by carrying the Indians network, and attracting thousands of new subscribers.


"Throughout the country, regional sports networks drive traffic to the [cable TV] outlets that carry them," Berke said.



Berke said he and most industry analysts expect Time Warner to offer the Indians network to subscribers as part of their basic cable service, without an additional fee being charged and to also work out distribution deals with major satellite companies DirecTV and Dish Network.


"That's clearly how the [regional sports networks] that have been successful have been handled," Berke said. "it's in Time Warner's best interest, and the Indians, to get the most eyeballs possible watching the network." Berke said the club will not only draw huge financial returns from their new network, but have total control over a powerful promotional tool that can focus attention on the team year-round.


"They can develop their own TV programs about everyone and everything, whether it's [manager Eric Wedge] or players or their farm teams or upcoming promotions," Berke said. "They now have much more control over how they're presented."



Advertisement






As for fans, Berke said they "now have a chance to see a substantial amount of new programming about their team. If you're a die-hard Indians fan, there's no way you can't be excited about the expanded coverage you'll get."


Still, the Indians' foray isn't without risk. Teams which have struggled to launch their own networks include baseball's Minnesota Twins and Houston Astros and the NBA's Charlotte Bobcats, Portland Trail Blazers and Houston Rockets.


Although the opportunity for increased revenue drives interest in the new network, it isn't expected to affect the team's current off-season plans.


"I'm the wrong guy to ask," General Manager Mark Shapiro said Monday to questions about the deal's impact.


"[Team President] Paul Dolan is the person to talk to. At this moment, my budget hasn't changed over the last few weeks. Paul and I talk every couple of days. I know our parameters. I know the players we can't afford to get involved with."


Staff writer Paul Hoynes contributed to this report.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At least one of the local radio stations in that region - Dover/New Philly - features the "Storm Team 9 Forecast" from Steubenville's WTOV/9.



I was the one to post about Akron/Canton's lack of it's own DMA-and now here's another interesting point.


Back in 1953, what made the networks and/or private station owners decide that it made more sense to put a station in tiny Steubenville and slightly larger Wheeling than in Akron and/or Canton (well WAKR WAS opened in Akron, to be fair) which were both MUCH larger potential markets? Can't they get Pittsburgh stations rather easily there??


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was the one to post about Akron/Canton's lack of it's own DMA-and now here's another interesting point.
> 
> 
> Back in 1953, what made the networks and/or private station owners decide that it made more sense to put a station in tiny Steubenville and slightly larger Wheeling than in Akron and/or Canton (well WAKR WAS opened in Akron, to be fair) which were both MUCH larger potential markets? Can't they get Pittsburgh stations rather easily there??



I used to go camping in the Leesville Lake area outside Dover/New Philly. They got their ABC from Pittsburgh, the CBS from Steubenville, and NBC from Wheeling IIRC. So that made 3 stations for 3 different states serving the area. We picked the stations up OTA on a small portable TV with no problem.


I have since learned that WTAE-4 out of Pittsburgh located their transmitter in a different area than the rest of the Pittsburgh stations becuase at one time they were the only ABC for 3 DMA's: Pittsburgh, Wheeling/Steubenville, and Johnstown/Altoona (the last DMA finally got their own ABC in the late 80's).


Tusc. County could switch to the Wheeling/Steubenville DMA with no problem, Neilsen just has to find enough viewers in that county to make the switch. It probably won't happen anymore, thanks to cable and now satellite penetration from Cleveland.


----------



## rickw6605

Thanks for the information. I thought it would work that way. But better safe than sorry


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We'll see more of Indians next year
> 
> Deal adds cable, 'free' TV telecasts
> 
> Tuesday, December 06, 2005
> 
> Roger Brown
> 
> Plain Dealer Reporter
> 
> The Indians will soon announce they've signed new TV deals with WKYC Channel 3 and Time Warner Cable -- a package creating a team-run regional sports network that will show most game telecasts, beginning this season.
> 
> 
> The Indians' TV package will likely see 130 games on the new regional sports network carried on Time Warner cable outlets throughout Northeast Ohio.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, WKYC will air 20 or so games, primarily on weekends. It will mark the first time since 2001 -- when WUAB Channel 43 last aired Indians games -- that a "free TV" station will have local telecast rights.
> 
> 
> "We're working on it and we should have something shortly," said Dennis Lehman, the Indians' vice president for business.
> 
> 
> The Indians' new deal ends their 16-season partnership with cable network FSN Ohio, which had been the sole local TV home since 2002.
> 
> 
> .




Well, this sounds good. It also doesn't sound like a done deal yet.


One question....just a small one really.....Did I miss the mention of HD in this?

I know we talk off topic and this is certainly a topic I don't mind discussing but I would have like to have heard some details about more HD broadcasts.


----------



## paule123

Re the Indians deal -- I'm a Wide Open West cable customer -- I wonder if this new TWC Indians network is going to play nice and make a deal with the other cablecos in the region... or will they force me to switch to the only other cable provider in my area -- Adelphia (soon to be TWC) -- if I want to watch Indians games?


Also note nothing was said at all about games in HD...


----------



## rlockshin

In regards to TWC broadcasting Indians games, where does Satellite fit into the picture?

Will servicec be available on Direct TV and Dish?

If not, it does not seem fair


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In regards to TWC broadcasting Indians games, where does Satellite fit into the picture?
> 
> Will servicec be available on Direct TV and Dish?
> 
> If not, it does not seem fair



If you read the press release it says they plan on making deals with the satellite companies. What I'm worried about is if they will make deals with competing cable companies that service the same area Adelphia/TWC covers.


I would think they'd want to get the games out to as many people as possible regardless of the cable provider because it's more viewers, thus more advertising dollars for them.


Edit: Just doing a little research here, and a similar thing happened in Chicago. Comcast Sports Net took over a large portion of Cubs and White Sox games. The good news is it appears CSN is carried on their competitor's cable networks, RCN and Wide Open West, so hopefully TWC follows the same business model.


----------



## rlockshin

In Philly Comcast broadcasts basketball games and satellite is not able to offer comcast channel


----------



## clevemkt

Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ?



Should be fixed.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ?
> 
> 
> 
> Should be fixed.



It seems to be fixed today


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you read the press release it says they plan on making deals with the satellite companies. What I'm worried about is if they will make deals with competing cable companies that service the same area Adelphia/TWC covers.
> 
> 
> I would think they'd want to get the games out to as many people as possible regardless of the cable provider because it's more viewers, thus more advertising dollars for them.
> 
> 
> Edit: Just doing a little research here, and a similar thing happened in Chicago. Comcast Sports Net took over a large portion of Cubs and White Sox games. The good news is it appears CSN is carried on their competitor's cable networks, RCN and Wide Open West, so hopefully TWC follows the same business model.



Sorry for the non-HD post. I guess I went off-topic without realizing it due to all the sports-talk. I know in some other markets regional networks including YES, Comcast, FSN broadcast games in HD. As of now no Cleveland-area HD broadcasts on FSN. Hopefully this new "Indians" Network will have at least a few games in HD. Channel 3 too, although I'm usually disappointed with their local broadcasting--that "stretch" is real annoying.


One of the main business reasons TWC would start a network is so they can charge the competing cable companies and satellite companies to carry the network. The Indians have very high demand so, similar to the YES/Cablevision conflict a couple years ago, something will have to be negotiated.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Ok, so I've got D* and live in Medina. I've got a 120" Rat-Shack antenna over my garage that pulls in just about everything extremely reliably OTA with high signal strength except for two problem stations: WKYC and WOIO. I know, I know; no surprises there since these are the low VHF stations.


But WKYC actually comes in at about 90%. It's fairly rock solid other than the occassional dropout and the unlistenable DD 5.1 because of the dropouts. Yes, I would like it to be better, but I seriously doubt that I can get it better.


It's channel 19 that drives me nuts. In the two years I've had this setup, I've never been able to watch WOIO for more than 30 seconds at a time on seemingly random days. When it comes in, it comes in at about 95%. But when I can't get it (which is about 95% of the time), the signal strength is only about 5% and won't lock on.


I originally thought it was a mutipath problem. I do get some ghosting on the analog channel. But I've moved the antenna around as much as I can, and it's not helping. Again, everything else is coming in very well.


It seems like it comes in sometimes during a sunny day, but it's been on and off in all kinds of weather conditions both day and night. So I can't isolate any particular cause as to why there is such a drastic shift in strength.


Does anyone know of anything easy I can try? And calling the antenna service that's been mentioned before, while I'm sure would fix it, is not an option for me. I'm not going to spend money for somebody to do it when all but one channel already comes in. I was hoping maybe somebody knew of some magical device from Radio Shack that I could plug into the coax run that would filter out multipath on VHF channel 10.










Doesn't WOIO share a stick with channel 43? Or am I imagining that? Channel 43 comes in at darn-near 100%.


And... the biggest question. Does anyone have any info as to when D* is rolling out the HD locals for Cleveland? The press release from November said they would have 36 markets covered by early 2006. Considering we're the #16 DMA, I would assume that we're coming up quickly.


I need to know if I need to start saving my pennies for the HD-TiVO with MPEG-4....










Thanks, everybody.


----------



## DCSholtis

Ive heard sometime early in 06.....but note that the HD DVR is NOT Tivo based. The new HD DVR is rumored to be out in mid-06 think springtime. Thats the latest rumor thats going around.


----------



## Inundated

Re: the new Indians network - it will likely be available everywhere (maybe even on WOW?). But don't expect HD in year one. (I could be wrong.) It may happen, though, because a cable company that sells HD services is running the show.


I read this somewhere else, and am worried about how they'll handle this network (SD or HD) on the soon-to-be-absorbed Adelphia. If the TWC - Adelphia deal isn't done by the time the Indians start, I hope they figure out where to put it on the Adelphia system.


----------



## JJkizak

There is no magic bullet. You might try a 177" antenna. Sometimes a faulty connector, connector wire connection, cables mixed up will show up on a sweep generator as a nice notch and if it happens at the channel 19 frequency so be it. If a ground braid is gapped on one side of the connector you will get a notch. That's why serious people use a soldered center conductor with hand hydralic crimped ground braids. The braid must be placed evenly around the connector or you will get a notch. Anything that's loose you will get inconsistant readings. Quad braid RG-6 is considered pretty much junk by serious people but affording the good stuff and connectors can be a problem. Avoid anything that's quick crimp. Shorten the lead-in as short as possible. If you have a long lead-in Styroflex is the way to go, almost no loss at 900 megs. It's actually miniture hardline and gold flashed internally. If you have bucks then get a $150,000.00 Parametric amp just for that channel. (noise figure of 1.8 db) The noise figure of your TV front end is about 3.5 to 4.0 db. Pre-amps and amps most of the time will do you no good as their noise figure is around 6 db and they will actually make things worse. I garauntee you will pick up the channel even if the transmitter is shut off, well just funnin a bit.


JJK


----------



## ZManCartFan

Wow. Thanks, I guess. I'm not sure of exactly what you said, but I think it had something to do with either using a really expensive cable or buying my own cable system.










But, seriously, the coax run I've got is RG-6, I believe (it's been a couple of years, and I'm not a wiring tech kind of guy). The total run is about 60 feet or so from the attick over my garage, down the wall of the garage into the basement, and then across the ceililng of the basement and up behind the ground-floor TV. The cable, which might have actually been a hundred-foot roll, is definitely too long for the run. The extra is kind of looped around in the basement. Could this be causing my problem?


On a related note, does anyone know of a good place to get a diplexer that would work in conjunction with the multitap for the DirecTV wire that would allow me to run both the antenna feed and the D* feed on the same wire? Eventually I'd like to go HD upstairs in the bedroom, and running a second cable is not an option.


Thanks again!


----------



## hookbill

Anyone notice that WJW Fox 8 was making a big deal about a "high tech" truck they had called "Ground Fox" last week? I guess the big deal about it was it had an HD camera. Well, I saw them use it a few times and the pq while that thing was moving was horrible.


I've noticed this week not a word has been mentioned about "Ground Fox". Maybe it decided to hibernate for the winter?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. Thanks, I guess. I'm not sure of exactly what you said, but I think it had something to do with either using a really expensive cable or buying my own cable system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, seriously, the coax run I've got is RG-6, I believe (it's been a couple of years, and I'm not a wiring tech kind of guy). The total run is about 60 feet or so from the attick over my garage, down the wall of the garage into the basement, and then across the ceililng of the basement and up behind the ground-floor TV. The cable, which might have actually been a hundred-foot roll, is definitely too long for the run. The extra is kind of looped around in the basement. Could this be causing my problem?
> 
> 
> On a related note, does anyone know of a good place to get a diplexer that would work in conjunction with the multitap for the DirecTV wire that would allow me to run both the antenna feed and the D* feed on the same wire? Eventually I'd like to go HD upstairs in the bedroom, and running a second cable is not an option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again!



From what I've read, the diplexer would be a short term solution. Diplexers will not work with D*'s MPEG4 architecture. Believe I've read that the complete transition to MPEG4 will complete in the next few years. Cleveland will begin transition some time next year. To get D* HD for locals or new national HD channels you will have to have the MPEG4 dish/receiver (i.e., no diplexers).


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The cable, which might have actually been a hundred-foot roll, is definitely too long for the run. The extra is kind of looped around in the basement. Could this be causing my problem?



Yes, it could be. Extra cable length is extra loss. RG-6 cable is quite lossy at UHF where most of the HD signals are. You could gain as much as 5 dB by shortening your cable by 40 ft. This is probably more than you'd gain by going to a more expensive antenna. Shorten the cable!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone notice that WJW Fox 8 was making a big deal about a "high tech" truck they had called "Ground Fox" last week? I guess the big deal about it was it had an HD camera. Well, I saw them use it a few times and the pq while that thing was moving was horrible.



I've got a screen cap of it somewhere.


On the laptop, it's quite apparent that like FOX 8's other remote live camera shots, it's 16:9 SD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got a screen cap of it somewhere.
> 
> 
> On the laptop, it's quite apparent that like FOX 8's other remote live camera shots, it's 16:9 SD.



Really! Well how come they were making such a big deal about it? That would make it, ah....let me see....a news truck!


----------



## JJkizak

By all means, shorten the cable. Or replace it with a new one. You will actually see the difference. The larger antenna may get you another couple db. The splitters will also knock the signal down about 3db at 900 megs if they are good. So don't put too many in the system. Diplexers will also have losses depending on how expensive they are.


JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341

"Ground FOX's" main claim to fame is the fact that you can see live video while it's moving. Other ENG news trucks have to be standing still to aim it's terrestrial microwave antenna at the receive point (which is probably not at the station but more than likely one of the tall buildings on Public Square).


It probably uses the same technology that the news helicopters use, just on the ground, which makes it harder to maintain a constant lock due to ground clutter. Every time I've seen ground FOX it was either on W14th or the Jennings Freeway, which tells me the range is limited (i.e. the truck has to be in eyeshot of the top of the Terminal Tower). Until I see Ground FOX live from the outer regons of the metro area I'm not impressed. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"










It is HD? probably not, just "stretch-o-vision".


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't WOIO share a stick with channel 43? Or am I imagining that? Channel 43 comes in at darn-near 100%.
> 
> .



WUAB's tower was built years before WOIO went on the air, also when WOIO first went on the air they were not owned or operated by the same company (nor could they be before the FCC rules changed). As a matter of fact WUAB fought to keep anybody from operating on ch-19, at the time WUAB went on the air UHF frequencies were hard to receive and the lower channels had a big advantage (which is why the original ch 61 WKBF went dark not long after WUAB first signed on).


WUAB's tower and WOIO's tower are seperate structures. WUAB is on State Rd. behind Padua High and just a little bit north of WEWS, while WOIO is in the "West Creek Preserve" (formerly the Parma City Dump - no joke!) on Ridgewood Dr. WOIO is between WKYC which is on Broadview Rd. at the top of the hill after the Ridgewood intersection, and WBNX (which also is the home to just about every LPTV antenna in town). Also in the Ridgewood neighborhood is WQHS-61. WBNX and WQHS is on the Camp Corde property which is behind Parmadale.


My back yard is lit by all the Ridgewood sticks







.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is HD? probably not, just "stretch-o-vision".



No, as noted above, it's 16:9 SD. Pretty much any recent vintage SD professional camera can flip between 4:3 and 16:9 easily. It's the same thing they do on the live shots. It's not stretched, just not in HD.


And you're probably right on the technology. I haven't seen the thing go more than 5 miles from downtown...


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re: the new Indians network - it will likely be available everywhere (maybe even on WOW?). But don't expect HD in year one. (I could be wrong.) It may happen, though, because a cable company that sells HD services is running the show.
> 
> 
> I read this somewhere else, and am worried about how they'll handle this network (SD or HD) on the soon-to-be-absorbed Adelphia. If the TWC - Adelphia deal isn't done by the time the Indians start, I hope they figure out where to put it on the Adelphia system.



even on dish network?? by the start of the season? usually dish network is hard to deal with, I hope we have it as that really blows for me!


----------



## TLaz

Are either WVIZ-DT or WEAO-TV currently transmitting HDTV programming from PBS?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> even on dish network?? by the start of the season? usually dish network is hard to deal with, I hope we have it as that really blows for me!



They should be able to do it, somehow. The Washington Nationals' new "MASN" network landed on Dish Network shortly after they announced it, before the season. I believe Dish ended up dedicating a channel for it, even though MASN only runs the ballgames.


IIRC, it didn't take long. If they announce this thing tomorrow, they'll have about 5 months to figure it out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are either WVIZ-DT or WEAO-TV currently transmitting HDTV programming from PBS?



WVIZ-DT is transmitting PBS on HD, but I'm not sure how good the OTA reception is. I get it through Adelphia.


----------



## akron05

OK, here's some questions. Each digital channel has 4 subchannels, is that right? So, regarding my earlier post about the lack of local Akron/Canton news coverage on Cleveland stations since we lack our own DMA, couldn't one of the big Cleveland stations use one of their subchannels to broadcast an Akron/Canton area newscast?


Also, does using the subchannel mean that they can only broadcast in SDTV not HDTV? And if they use a subchannel sometimes does that mean they must do so at all times?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, here's some questions. Each digital channel has 4 subchannels, is that right? So, regarding my earlier post about the lack of local Akron/Canton news coverage on Cleveland stations since we lack our own DMA, couldn't one of the big Cleveland stations use one of their subchannels to broadcast an Akron/Canton area newscast?



I think the answer to that question is probably something Inundated would know for sure, but just based on the question itself if it was possible they probably wouldn't do it because it would require more money. Your actually asking for a separate newscast for Akron. It doesn't sound feasable to me.


----------



## JJkizak

TLaz: WEAO is transmitting OTA from the Akron area 50.1, 50.2, 50.3, 50.4. However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment. Sometimes they come in just fine and sometimes not. Right now I would estimate that the "good signal" times would be in the 40% range. If digital is fading it is unwatchable as compared to analog. I live in Twinsburg on fairly high ground with 177" antenna pointed at Cleveland. All of the other stations come in fine with the exception of the four channels on 17 which are in and out.


JJK


----------



## jtscherne

In my post I specifically talked about THAT DATE (the championship weekend games). I didn't mention earlier weeks.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe that is a true statement. A recent example of a D1 game not in HD was the Ohio State/Michigan game on ABC. Tons of complaints on the forum about that. From what I saw over the course of the season, the majority were not in HD. CBS did one SEC game a week, the Notre Dame game on NBC was in HD, and ESPN usually did one a week. ABC actually did only a few games during the season from what I saw. I wish it were true. Maybe next year.
> 
> Steve


----------



## jtscherne

(I hate when the email notification doesn't come through!)


Another article I read indicated that the plan is to quickly sign deals with satellite and other cable systems. However, ask the NY people about YES on Dish (it isn't there!), so we'll see.


Of course, we still haven't gotten official notification, so maybe they're working on those deals now.


Also, see the article below, related to the Adelphia sale:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/b...s/13374243.htm 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In regards to TWC broadcasting Indians games, where does Satellite fit into the picture?
> 
> Will servicec be available on Direct TV and Dish?
> 
> If not, it does not seem fair


----------



## rocatman

The potential big problem with the yet to be finalized new Indians television deal is the fact that the Cavaliers will still be on Fox Sports Ohio unitl 2007-2008. Some of the satellite/cable companies may not want to pay for two Regional Sports Networks in a single market.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne
> 
> [url* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/13374243.htm[/url ]



The FCC ought to concern itself with broadcast and needs to keep it's nose out of cable/satallite business (IMHO)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rocatman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The potential big problem with the yet to be finalized new Indians television deal is the fact that the Cavaliers will still be on Fox Sports Ohio unitl 2007-2008. *Some of the satellite/cable companies may not want to pay for two Regional Sports Networks in a single market.*



Are you saying this because of inside knowledge, something you read, or is it simply your opinion?


Further, if they go to "a la carte" programing it would probably in their interest to carry as much as possible. That's IMHO.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, here's some questions. Each digital channel has 4 subchannels, is that right? So, regarding my earlier post about the lack of local Akron/Canton news coverage on Cleveland stations since we lack our own DMA, couldn't one of the big Cleveland stations use one of their subchannels to broadcast an Akron/Canton area newscast?
> 
> 
> Also, does using the subchannel mean that they can only broadcast in SDTV not HDTV? And if they use a subchannel sometimes does that mean they must do so at all times?



The number of subchannels is not limited to 4, however the more that are transmitted the less bandwidth per channel is used. Watch 43-2 for an example (even though the only have the main channel plus one subchannel, they devote so little bandwidth to the one subchannel that the result is awful). One transponder on a DBS satellite is the same bandwidth as a single TV channel (6 MHz). The DBS providers have been able to squeeze up to 12 channels by allocating different amounts of bandwidth at a moment's notice using "Stat-mux" technology. The problem happens when too many channels have fast action at the same time (the more movement on the screen the more bandwidth is needed to avoid pixillation).


As for the HD vs SD at the same time question, WKYC runs Weather Plus 24 - 7 wheather there is an HD program on or not. Weather plus looks good because there is no rapid movement on the screen. If a sporting event was on the subchannel you would see plenty of artifacts.


----------



## rocatman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you saying this because of inside knowledge, something you read, or is it simply your opinion?
> 
> 
> Further, if they go to "a la carte" programing it would probably in their interest to carry as much as possible. That's IMHO.



I do not have any inside knowledge. In reading other forums especially for the satellite providers, there have been posts from folks in other markets where satellite providers have only carried one Regional Sports Network for a market and therefore they were missing televised games from one of there sports teams i.e., baseball, basketball, hockey. I was just throwing out the possibility that this could happen in Cleveland that is why I used the word "potential".


----------



## Inundated

Some thoughts:


* The new Indians channel, whatever it is, will likely be available everywhere, including on DirecTV and Dish Network and on non-Time Warner cable systems. It's in the Indians' best interest to make it available. If the channel itself does not come to fruition this year, and it's only TWC carrying the games on its own position 23, then they'll likely still make the games alone available to cable and satellite providers.


* Unlike that scenario, the WKYC/TWC deal for its Akron/Canton News is heavily weighted for Time Warner. They want to use it as a draw for people to sign up for cable. So, don't expect that newscast to leave the TWC universe...even on a WKYC subchannel. (They could, theoretically, air it on the Weather Plus feed, but that's supposed to be a 24/7 weather feed anyway.)


* Don't worry about the "they won't carry two RSNs" problem in this case.


----------



## Commodore 64

I've not heard of an Indians TV deal. Are the Indians going to be broadcast on an OTA channel? That would be so awesome.


----------



## jtscherne

It hasn't been officially announced, although even the Indians website has an article about it. Only a limited number of games (the number used was 20) will be on WKYC. The remaining games will be on a new cable station run by Time Warner Cable.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've not heard of an Indians TV deal. Are the Indians going to be broadcast on an OTA channel? That would be so awesome.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They should be able to do it, somehow. The Washington Nationals' new "MASN" network landed on Dish Network shortly after they announced it, before the season. I believe Dish ended up dedicating a channel for it, even though MASN only runs the ballgames.
> 
> 
> IIRC, it didn't take long. If they announce this thing tomorrow, they'll have about 5 months to figure it out.



MASN was on Directv and not Dish, BTW.


----------



## EricG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TLaz: WEAO is transmitting OTA from the Akron area 50.1, 50.2, 50.3, 50.4. However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment. Sometimes they come in just fine and sometimes not. Right now I would estimate that the "good signal" times would be in the 40% range. If digital is fading it is unwatchable as compared to analog. I live in Twinsburg on fairly high ground with 177" antenna pointed at Cleveland. All of the other stations come in fine with the exception of the four channels on 17 which are in and out.
> 
> 
> JJK



The transmitter is in Fairlawn. I get 50-2,-3,-4 perfectly. My only problem is with the Guide. On my HR10-250 since I bought it is that the guide says "Regular Programming". I've spoken to Engineering at WEAO and Level II tech support at DirecTV, neither knows why or how to correct it. A real pain the rear, since I NEED guide data for my DVR to be useful.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MASN was on Directv and not Dish, BTW.



I could have sworn it eventually ended up on both.


The Indians situation doesn't seem as screwed up as what the Nationals went through, and I'm sure the Indians games will land on both satellite carriers.


----------



## stuart628

thats what I am scared is going to happen to this new indians channel, that Dish wont pick it up, charlie (guy who runs dish network) is very hesitant to pick up new channels sometimes, especially when it comes to him paying for them and do we think he really wants a whole bunch of cleveland channels taking up his bandwidth? I dont think so, I see Directv getting it because they are putting up new satellites, but not dish network,


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thats what I am scared is going to happen to this new indians channel, that Dish wont pick it up, charlie (guy who runs dish network) is very hesitant to pick up new channels sometimes, especially when it comes to him paying for them and do we think he really wants a whole bunch of cleveland channels taking up his bandwidth? I dont think so, I see Directv getting it because they are putting up new satellites, but not dish network,



Well, switch to Direct TV. Or cable (I'd stay with DTV). Your not really "stuck" with anything. Unless your like me and can't get satellite because of trees.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thats what I am scared is going to happen to this new indians channel, that Dish wont pick it up, charlie (guy who runs dish network) is very hesitant to pick up new channels sometimes, especially when it comes to him paying for them and do we think he really wants a whole bunch of cleveland channels taking up his bandwidth? I dont think so, I see Directv getting it because they are putting up new satellites, but not dish network,



The only way "E*" will get this new Indians channel is if FSN Ohio were to lower the fee they currently charge E* since they no longer have the Indians. We need to get both due to the Cavs still being on FSNO. New Yorkers get 2 on E* (when they need to get 3) FSN NY and MSG, YES is missing on E*.


(for those of you who may not have been to the satellite boards, E* is Dish Network's abbreviation on the satellite boards, "D*" = DirecTv)


----------



## terryfoster

My parents are planning on getting an HDTV in the next couple of weeks and they live in the Akron area. They will be using TWC as their service provider (as they are already customers). Can someone give me a brief summary of any issues I should be aware of in this region?


My response for anyone asking of the Cincinnati area would be:


TWC Cinci does not carry the WB as it is a sinclair station, WCPO (ABC) has a major resolution problem as they are broadcasting at 1280x360, the only stations that broadcast 5.1 sound in Cincinnati are PBS and FOX. WCPO (ABC) will be upgrading their equipment in Q1 of 2006 which should fix the resolution problem and they are currently working on getting their 5.1 sound fixed.


I thank you for your time in advance.


----------



## Inundated

Well, among other things here:


* We have no WB in HD (or any digital here), as the local WB affiliate has yet to light up its digital station. There are frequency coordination problems with it (WBNX/55) and Canada. And unlike some other markets, WBNX doesn't provide even a cable-only HD feed. It's analog or nothing. No idea when it gets fixed.


* Our NBC affiliate, WKYC/3, is on a low VHF DT channel (2), and is difficult for many to receive without a pretty decent outdoor antenna. Some also have problems getting WOIO-DT (VHF DT 10), but it's not nearly as difficult as WKYC's digital channel.


* Most of the network affiliates are on cable here, after WOIO managed to come to an agreement with Time Warner Cable and Adelphia recently. I'm on Adelphia, and we're missing only WUAB-DT (UPN).


* I'm not 100% sure, but I believe only WKYC/NBC and WJW/FOX pass 5.1 audio. WEWS/ABC and WOIO/CBS do not, and I'm pretty sure WUAB/UPN doesn't as well (same owners as WOIO).


EDIT: I just noticed that you said they would have TWC for a cable provider.


This page (http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/products/hdtv.html) will tell you a lot more about their HD offerings. Note that despite the lineup listing, I'm pretty sure they only feed the network stations for the local areas they're in - i.e. you'd only get the Cleveland/Akron market HD channels here, and not Toledo, Pittsburgh or Youngstown, and vice versa...


And TWC does carry WKYC, so ignore that part about OTA reception. It's just a general point for those who do use antennas.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only way "E*" will get this new Indians channel is if FSN Ohio were to lower the fee they currently charge E* since they no longer have the Indians. We need to get both due to the Cavs still being on FSNO. New Yorkers get 2 on E* (when they need to get 3) FSN NY and MSG, YES is missing on E*.



Well, OK, I do understand...but it's pretty much been assumed that the Indians will at least TRY to get the network on both major satellite providers. If Charlie acts funny, there's not much they can do about it.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I think it was in the PD or online somewhere that I read a statement saying if you were able to see the Indians last year, you'll be able to see them this year.


Don't worry people.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it was in the PD or online somewhere that I read a statement saying if you were able to see the Indians last year, you'll be able to see them this year.
> 
> 
> Don't worry people.



I guess its a waiting game now, and I really dont want to switch to directv (as much as I would love to watch my steelers play every sunday I am happy watching the browns or whoever is on as long as its football I guess) as E* is getting ready to add a ton of HD, but that is besides the point. I am content for now and if need be I will move my utlity company to the one that can provide the indians to me...now a question for you guys...Does OTA getting stronger in the winter? I am at 85-88% on all OTa channels except Wkyc which is 81-82% and its been that way since the leaves fell....but also around the same time, I changed my setup around a bit as far as my rg6 runs are concerned and took my OTA antenna ona straight fun from the attic to my 811 instead of a diplexed run....so is this great signal I am getting now going to go back to the 70's once summer hits, or whould i expect this nice strong signal all year round now that I have a direct RG6 run from antenna to reciever?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does OTA getting stronger in the winter? I am at 85-88% on all OTa channels except Wkyc which is 81-82% and its been that way since the leaves fell....but also around the same time, I changed my setup around a bit as far as my rg6 runs are concerned and took my OTA antenna ona straight fun from the attic to my 811 instead of a diplexed run....so is this great signal I am getting now going to go back to the 70's once summer hits, or whould i expect this nice strong signal all year round now that I have a direct RG6 run from antenna to reciever?



Well, not knowing how many trees you have, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with "since the leaves fell". You most likely improved the signal by changing the run from the antenna, but having fewer obstructions between you and the transmission tower doesn't hurt either.


I know I was finally able to lock on to Dayton stations once the leaves fell from the trees just north of my house. I expect to lose most of those stations again once spring returns.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

which is good enough reason for me to start cutting down trees in the spring.


stupid trees.


----------



## Inundated

I've finally narrowed down WEWS-DT's problem with fuzzy SD upconverting.


It ONLY happens during ABC (non-HD) programming.


During locally originated programming ("NewsChannel 5") or commercials, the upconverting is fine...aside from that annoying 14:9 stretch. On SD programming or commercials fed down the satellite from ABC, the screen is more fuzzy, and superimposed graphics are particularly affected. You can SEE the fuzzy graphics. (This is the same problem we talked about here during a recent Ohio State football game or two. One week, it was so bad, you could barely make out "MINN" for "Minnesota" on the score graphics!)


I have sent a long E-Mail to WEWS' programming department about this, and will continue to press the issue until they figure it out. I don't know enough about technical things to know this for sure, but I have this odd feeling the 14:9 upconverting is playing havoc with the satellite feed.


I WILL get them to fix this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've finally narrowed down WEWS-DT's problem with fuzzy SD upconverting.
> 
> 
> It ONLY happens during ABC (non-HD) programming.
> 
> 
> During locally originated programming ("NewsChannel 5") or commercials, the upconverting is fine...aside from that annoying 14:9 stretch. On SD programming or commercials fed down the satellite from ABC, the screen is more fuzzy, and superimposed graphics are particularly affected. You can SEE the fuzzy graphics. (This is the same problem we talked about here during a recent Ohio State football game or two. One week, it was so bad, you could barely make out "MINN" for "Minnesota" on the score graphics!)
> 
> 
> I have sent a long E-Mail to WEWS' programming department about this, and will continue to press the issue until they figure it out. I don't know enough about technical things to know this for sure, but I have this odd feeling the 14:9 upconverting is playing havoc with the satellite feed.
> 
> 
> I WILL get them to fix this.



Well, good luck. But arn't you already on some other stations "do not accept his calls list?"










I want to say WOIO but it's been a while so I'm not sure.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've finally narrowed down WEWS-DT's problem with fuzzy SD upconverting.
> 
> 
> It ONLY happens during ABC (non-HD) programming.
> 
> 
> During locally originated programming ("NewsChannel 5") or commercials, the upconverting is fine...aside from that annoying 14:9 stretch. On SD programming or commercials fed down the satellite from ABC, the screen is more fuzzy, and superimposed graphics are particularly affected. You can SEE the fuzzy graphics. (This is the same problem we talked about here during a recent Ohio State football game or two. One week, it was so bad, you could barely make out "MINN" for "Minnesota" on the score graphics!)
> 
> 
> I have sent a long E-Mail to WEWS' programming department about this, and will continue to press the issue until they figure it out. I don't know enough about technical things to know this for sure, but I have this odd feeling the 14:9 upconverting is playing havoc with the satellite feed.
> 
> 
> I WILL get them to fix this.



What is the email I will email them as well.


----------



## charliefry

I was wondering if anyone can point me to a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area where I can view afew different projector setups. I was going to purchase one but really want to have a look at picture quality, ect. Currently I have a 65" Mitts ws-65869 and was thinking of replacing it with a panny ae900 or a z4. I've read all the threads and looked at all the screenshots but I really would like to see one in action before I take the plunge.


Thanks


----------



## Michael P 2341

Is it just me or did WEWS's "15 X 9" stretch grow a little bit closer to 16 X 9? I don't see the skinny black sidebars that I used to see just a few weeks ago.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *charliefry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone can point me to a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area where I can view afew different projector setups. I was going to purchase one but really want to have a look at picture quality, ect. Currently I have a 65" Mitts ws-65869 and was thinking of replacing it with a panny ae900 or a z4. I've read all the threads and looked at all the screenshots but I really would like to see one in action before I take the plunge.
> 
> 
> Thanks




As far as I know any store you go to see a TV will have it blazing so I don't know how you can really look at a TV in a store and make a decision. I would suggest internet research on the model your thinking about purchasing.


All HD televisions should be calibrated, either by a professional or you can do it yourself, and the picture you would have in your home would be much darker then what you see at the stores.


INHD and HDNet both have high definition patterns you can use to tune your HD set. You can also purchase a DVD but it's my experience that the one on INHD is the easiest to use. Of course a recommended professional would be your best bet.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, good luck. But arn't you already on some other stations "do not accept his calls list?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to say WOIO but it's been a while so I'm not sure.



The "19 Action News" folks would probably ignore me if they knew who I was, and what I wrote about them elsewhere.










And the WEWS-DT stretch has changed a little...but it's still not 16:9, and it's still causing the problems I described above. The in-house stretching of ABC programming causes the fuzzy graphics, period. I don't know if it's the odd ratio or what, but the stretching doesn't cause the same problem on their local feeds.


As far as E-Mail, I couldn't find an E-Mail address for them on their website, so I had to use their feedback form.


----------



## bedo

Hi,


Can anyone tell me what Twinsburg Adelphia is transmitting? I have been using Dish and am not happy. Read a couple of days ago that they are downrezzing all HD channels to 1280x1024 and it looks like it.









I don't know if Adelphia uses different bandwidth for video in different areas, that is why I am asking this from people specific to this region. There are a lot of knowledgeable posts here, thanks for any help.


bedo


----------



## jtscherne

FYI, there was a small ad in today's Plain Dealer from Adelphia announcing that Discovery HD will be moving to their basic HD tier and therefore will be available to all HD subscribers. (I don't remember the date, sorry!)


There isn't anything on the Adelphia Information Channel about it.


----------



## JJkizak

Charliefrye:

There is a place in Solon called "Audio Visions" but I think they deal with Runco stuff. They have a 2.35 x 1 setup and they also have all the 1080P stuff.


JJK


----------



## JJkizak

bedo:

You probably will be unhappy with Adelphia in Twinsburg as my Uncle is who has had it for abour 10 years. My Guru buddy in Sheffield Lake just switched to Dish and he said that the picture is better and the monthly bill was cut in half. He used to be in the business.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> bedo:
> 
> You probably will be unhappy with Adelphia in Twinsburg as my Uncle is who has had it for abour 10 years. My Guru buddy in Sheffield Lake just switched to Dish and he said that the picture is better and the monthly bill was cut in half. He used to be in the business.
> 
> 
> JJK




Actually as much as I dislike Adelphia I still think they have the edge in HD available programing. And they are getting close to going 100% digital on all channels.


The cost of course is another issue.


----------



## akron05

In the Cleveland DMA we're lucky that all the network affiliates are full power, even UPN and WB. There are a few LP stations around and they baffle me. One (WAKN, Channel 11, Akron) has it's transmitter only 5.4 miles away from me, but I can barely make out a picture and no sound on it. And I am on one of the highest hills in the county and get crisp-clear analog transmission of every local station and if I aim east I can get WFMJ Youngstown clear as a bell too. FYI I haven't yet made the HDTV/Digital plunge but it's in the works.


The FCCs website usually shows the -LP and -CA stations as having no transmitter height. Under the "height" section instead of a number there is a dash. Are the LP transmitters literally sitting on the ground?? Or are they on some kid's treehouse being powered by a AA battery?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the Cleveland DMA we're lucky that all the network affiliates are full power, even UPN and WB. There are a few LP stations around and they baffle me. One (WAKN, Channel 11, Akron) has it's transmitter only 5.4 miles away from me, but I can barely make out a picture and no sound on it.



I am in the city limits of Akron (barely), and I've never, ever been able to get even a snowy picture out of LPTV 11. Are they running from a whip antenna or something? Their pattern on the FCC's website would indicate I'd at least have a shot at it, though I'm outside the blue line:











But they are only 3,000 watts, and it looks like their tower is now near Clinton.


The only problem locally as far as DT stations - aside from WKYC-DT's channel 2 positioning - is the fact that WBNX/WB 55 is still not on digitally at all. Neither is WVPX/PAX-i 23, but that's not a big deal.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bedo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me what Twinsburg Adelphia is transmitting? I have been using Dish and am not happy. Read a couple of days ago that they are downrezzing all HD channels to 1280x1024 and it looks like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if Adelphia uses different bandwidth for video in different areas, that is why I am asking this from people specific to this region. There are a lot of knowledgeable posts here, thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> bedo



dish downrezzed 5 VOOM channels to 1240x1080i, Not all, every channel in the HD pack is untouched and they are working on restoring the vooms to full rez, also they are adding 5 more voom channels, espn2hd, and another rumored hd channel in about two weeks! there are ALOT of rumors running around about this! but again, as of right now, Dish seems to be the best option!


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am in the city limits of Akron (barely), and I've never, ever been able to get even a snowy picture out of LPTV 11. Are they running from a whip antenna or something? Their pattern on the FCC's website would indicate I'd at least have a shot at it, though I'm outside the blue line:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But they are only 3,000 watts, and it looks like their tower is now near Clinton.
> 
> 
> The only problem locally as far as DT stations - aside from WKYC-DT's channel 2 positioning - is the fact that WBNX/WB 55 is still not on digitally at all. Neither is WVPX/PAX-i 23, but that's not a big deal.



I'd be interested in seeing what an LPTV transmitter looks like compared to a full-power one.


There is actually one show on 23 that I watch (Doc) but I don't think it's in HD anyway. I watch several on WBNX though. I hear both should be on DT by summer 2006. I guess in both cases there are Canadian station interference issues or something.


----------



## WJW Engineer

With "Ground Fox", WJW Engineering is using digital microwave with COFDM modulation. COFDM is fairly tolerant of multipath situations, which allows us to (try to) transmit from a van, on the move with omnidirectional antennas. Obviously, this whole system is not foolproof, so we're still experimenting with different equipment, manufacturers and methods that will increase reliability as well as range. Inside the vehicle, we have two SD-16x9 cameras (one for talent, another looking out the front window), and one stretched SD-4x3 camera facing backwards on the roof. Being an HD newscast, we're not terribly impressed with the pictures from these cameras - so when encoding technology gets a little more advanced, you can bet that we'll switch to HD cameras.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Being an HD newscast, we're not terribly impressed with the pictures from these cameras - so when encoding technology gets a little more advanced, you can bet that we'll switch to HD cameras.



Good to hear!


On a local media-related blog, I saw an article that linked to an industry website with an interview with you guys (was it you?). The upshot is that it sounded like WJW is anxious to add in more HD than just the studio cams, including on SkyFox, in other production and news cameras and the like...but it sounded like you guys are once again waiting for technology to catch up in some cases!


You're right...compared to the rest of your newscast (even in SD viewing), it's not the same. I give it a pass for now, since it's something different...but I'd like to see it upgraded, too, at some point down the road a piece.


And thanks for your contribution here.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in seeing what an LPTV transmitter looks like compared to a full-power one.



Probably not much different...everything's solid state now. Maybe a little smaller.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is actually one show on 23 that I watch (Doc) but I don't think it's in HD anyway. I watch several on WBNX though. I hear both should be on DT by summer 2006. I guess in both cases there are Canadian station interference issues or something.



You're correct on both. We've heard rumors back and forth about WBNX, in particular, with some of our regulars on this thread being told earlier this year that they were aiming to be up by this fall TV season. Of course, that never happened. It sounds like WB55 is hoping to be ready with sending out WB in HD whenever they manage to light up the DT stick, though.


I haven't heard anything new on WVPX, though.


Both stations are, at this point, STILL waiting for the FCC to grant even the construction permit needed to start going on the air with their DT signals. I just checked the FCC database, and nothing. WBNX, in particular, has been waiting for the FCC to get off their...uh...you know what...and deal with an application they modified over a year ago to address the Canadian interference concerns.


As for "PAX 23" (or i or whatever they call it now), the network as a rule does not do HDTV at all. Their stations all broadcast multiple SD streams, including time delayed feeds of the main network, and their "Worship" 24/7 religious feed. When PAX changed its name to "i", they said the traditional PAX TV programming would migrate off the main channel to one of those feeds. The company's status is always in flux, though, so who knows if it'll actually happen?


The only thing I ever watched on WVPX was the old "PAX 23 News", which moved over to TWC 23 anyway...


----------



## jal1

Is WJW FOX 8 still at low power? I read posts a few weeks ago that they were having problems with the transmitter and are awaiting parts. I get all local channels in with a strong signal here in Solon except Fox 8 which is around 60% or less. Before adjusting my roof antenna, I thought someone here might know the answer.


----------



## pmkeating

I'm a newb. Can someone explain the phrase _"However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment"_


I'm in Cuyahoga Falls and used to get 50.1 perfectly. Since they added 50.3 and 50.4 I've only gotten a blank screen. I thought they swapped 50.1 for 50.3 & 50.4 due to bandwith issues or something. That would have been a bad trade IMO.


Thanks



PS to everyone down here - I must be a freak or something, but most of the time I get 3.1 and 3.2 perfectly with a set-top antenna in a 2nd floor window -- and I'm at the lowest spot on my street.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TLaz: WEAO is transmitting OTA from the Akron area 50.1, 50.2, 50.3, 50.4. However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment. Sometimes they come in just fine and sometimes not. Right now I would estimate that the "good signal" times would be in the 40% range. If digital is fading it is unwatchable as compared to analog. I live in Twinsburg on fairly high ground with 177" antenna pointed at Cleveland. All of the other stations come in fine with the exception of the four channels on 17 which are in and out.
> 
> 
> JJK


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably not much different...everything's solid state now. Maybe a little smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're correct on both. We've heard rumors back and forth about WBNX, in particular, with some of our regulars on this thread being told earlier this year that they were aiming to be up by this fall TV season. Of course, that never happened. It sounds like WB55 is hoping to be ready with sending out WB in HD whenever they manage to light up the DT stick, though.
> 
> 
> I haven't heard anything new on WVPX, though.
> 
> 
> Both stations are, at this point, STILL waiting for the FCC to grant even the construction permit needed to start going on the air with their DT signals. I just checked the FCC database, and nothing. WBNX, in particular, has been waiting for the FCC to get off their...uh...you know what...and deal with an application they modified over a year ago to address the Canadian interference concerns.
> 
> 
> As for "PAX 23" (or i or whatever they call it now), the network as a rule does not do HDTV at all. Their stations all broadcast multiple SD streams, including time delayed feeds of the main network, and their "Worship" 24/7 religious feed. When PAX changed its name to "i", they said the traditional PAX TV programming would migrate off the main channel to one of those feeds. The company's status is always in flux, though, so who knows if it'll actually happen?
> 
> 
> The only thing I ever watched on WVPX was the old "PAX 23 News", which moved over to TWC 23 anyway...



It was nice having an Akron newscast. Since I plan to dump TWC once I get an HD- television, I will no longer get to see it on the cable channel.


Here was my thought: Since WKYC produces the Akron/Canton news anyway, why not move it to one of their subchannels? Advertise it on the main station and show it on the subchannel.


----------



## JJkizak

pmkeating: They just aren't transmitting on 50.1 at this time. There are some threads on these previous pages explaining what is going on.


JJK


----------



## rlockshin

Just spoke with WEAO/WNEO. They hope to have 50.1 back on the air mid January to early February. It will only be on in prime hours 7-12. When it is on 50.3and 50.4 will disappear. They are garbage channels so they will not be missed. Reason HD content was pulled was strictly the cost that PBS wanted to charge local station to air programming.

Guide issue is also a money issue. $67,000 worth of equipment to fix. I received 49.1 and 2 and it had guide info on it

Hope this helps to clear the air. Source was engineering at the station


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here was my thought: Since WKYC produces the Akron/Canton news anyway, why not move it to one of their subchannels? Advertise it on the main station and show it on the subchannel.



Aside from confusion, I suppose the BIG reason was the reason they were able to make the deal to move it in the first place. TWC's interested in "exclusive" programming you can't get via satellite. It's the reason cable systems produce any local content at all...it is mean to drive up subscriptions. Even with the reported upcoming Indians contract with TWC, where satellite systems will likely be offered a crack at it, TWC still sees it as a subscription driver.


Even without that, there's really nowhere to put it, as their only subchannel right now is the 24/7 NBC Weather Plus feed, which they won't pre-empt.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

No HD Leno for 2 nights in a row. No HD Letterman right now.


What a bunch of bums that run these stations.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No HD Leno for 2 nights in a row. No HD Letterman right now.
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bums that run these stations.



WOIO-DT "woke up" and flipped Letterman to HD just moments after you posted that message.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually Leno switched to HD towards the end of the opening monologue last night. I didn't watch it Tuesday night though.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No HD Leno for 2 nights in a row. No HD Letterman right now.
> 
> 
> What a bunch of bums that run these stations.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

sweet so they flip it to hd AFTER i turn it off and go to sleep.


----------



## Inundated

It's been rumored for a while, but WKYC/3 has officially been announced as the baseball Cleveland Indians' new over-air TV partner, with 20 of the 158 televised games on WKYC starting in 2006.


That's not the biggest news for this place:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_articl...?storyid=45157 



> Quote:
> "It is with great pleasure that I am able to announce an agreement between WKYC Channel 3, and the Cleveland Indians baseball organization to broadcast Indians baseball in 2006 and well beyond. Indians baseball is back on broadcast television once again," said WKYC President and General Manager Brooke Spectorsky. "This is really very exciting for our community. As the broadcast carrier we'll not only be bringing twenty games to Indians fans in NE Ohio in 2006, we'll be airing those games in high definition with Dolby Digital 5.1 audio," added Spectorsky. "The look and sound of those games will be spectacular."



Finally, Cleveland TV sports enters the 21st century!


No word on the other part of this deal, a team-run cable network supposedly set to land on Time Warner as the primary carrier. But as mentioned, the team will apparently offer it to the satellite providers and other cable systems outside the TWC area... we'll see if THAT end holds up, and how many HD games will be seen that way.


----------



## hookbill

This is great news! I'm kind of wondering about the schedule of these games since this is a major network carrier. I'll bet they put most of them on after July starts, kind of the same strategy FOX uses.


It will be interesting to see what they do with the rest of the games.


----------



## jtscherne

The initial stories indicated that the WKYC games would be on the weekends.


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, WOIO forgot to flip the switch again last night. This time, the entire Letterman show was in SD. Anyone have a email address or phone number? I guess I don't understand what the difficulty is....


----------



## jtscherne

It seems that WOIO's having audio problems on their digital channel. I'm watching the local news and the anchor voices are inaudible, while the tape and remote broadcasts are fine. Frankly, I wonder if they even know it!


----------



## Inundated

It's the holiday season. WOIO's operators over the next week or so are probably less experienced fill-ins.


News:

(216) 781-1900 or

(877) 929-1943


WOIO & WUAB MAIN LINE:


Phone #: (216) 771-1943 or (800) 929-0132

Fax #: (216) 515-7152


Other numbers and E-Mail here:

http://www.19actionnews.com/Global/s...4&nav=menu68_7


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems that WOIO's having audio problems on their digital channel. I'm watching the local news and the anchor voices are inaudible, while the tape and remote broadcasts are fine. Frankly, I wonder if they even know it!



good. action news is terrible.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> good. action news is terrible.



Bah, Humbug!










Merry Christmas, everyone.*

* Or whatever holiday you choose.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas, everyone.*
> 
> * Or whatever holiday you choose.




Indeed. Merry Christmas all you Cleveland HDTV'ers.


Remember NBA on ABC and NFL on Fox and ESPN today for your HD viewing pleasure.


----------



## jtscherne

The full deal has been announced on the Indians website. The story indicates that they have already signed the deal with Time Warner and that negotiations will begin to offer the games to other cable operators and the satellite companies. Below is a link for the FAQ:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle 


The key part is that they hope to eventually have all games in HD, but at this point, only the WKYC games are definitely set for 2006 in HD.


----------



## Inundated

Some speculation on it here:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2005/1...s-tv-shoe.html 


Note that WKYC will be producing the games even on cable/satellite, so I suppose some cable games would be expected...even if not right away. TWC certainly has HD capability, and WKYC is producing all their over-air games in HD.


----------



## firemantom26

Does anyone have any info when channel 55,23 Cleveland-Akron and 27 Y-town will be going to digital?


----------



## jtscherne

This morning's Plain Dealer article had a couple of interesting points, quoted below. I guess I wonder how difficult it will be to get another cable or satellite company to take just the games and have to devote space to a part-time channel. It was also interesting that the Plain Dealer completely ignored the HD information in the news release. I guess that means they figure that nobody cares...


ARTICLE QUOTED:


Dolan said the team and Time Warner now hope to quickly negotiate distribution deals with other cable systems - as well as satellite-TV giants DirecTV and Dish Network - allowing them to also carry the Indians' network to their subscribers throughout Ohio. Dolan admitted he could not guarantee all deals will be completed before the Indians begin their season April 2.


"I'm confident we will have . . . made a fair effort to make these games available," Dolan said.


AND


The network won't debut as a 24-hour outlet and will start out airing the Indians games (with pre- and post-game shows) and two other team programs - one airing weekly, the other quarterly. Dolan said the Indians eventually want the network to be "a full-time [regional sports network], with full-time programming."


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any info when channel 55,23 Cleveland-Akron and 27 Y-town will be going to digital?



I was just poking around on the WBNX website and found a statement as to when they plan on going digital. Here is a link: http://www.wbnx.com/trends.htm In short, it says they are shooting for July 2006.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This morning's Plain Dealer article had a couple of interesting points, quoted below. I guess I wonder how difficult it will be to get another cable or satellite company to take just the games and have to devote space to a part-time channel. It was also interesting that the Plain Dealer completely ignored the HD information in the news release. I guess that means they figure that nobody cares...
> 
> 
> ARTICLE QUOTED:
> 
> 
> Dolan said the team and Time Warner now hope to quickly negotiate distribution deals with other cable systems - as well as satellite-TV giants DirecTV and Dish Network - allowing them to also carry the Indians' network to their subscribers throughout Ohio. Dolan admitted he could not guarantee all deals will be completed before the Indians begin their season April 2.
> 
> 
> "I'm confident we will have . . . made a fair effort to make these games available," Dolan said.
> 
> 
> AND
> 
> 
> The network won't debut as a 24-hour outlet and will start out airing the Indians games (with pre- and post-game shows) and two other team programs - one airing weekly, the other quarterly. Dolan said the Indians eventually want the network to be "a full-time [regional sports network], with full-time programming."



I don't quite carry the concern you have on this one. I figure since Adelphia is in buy out process they will probably be "asked" (or in reallity told) by TWC to carry the station.


Now if your with a satallite company I can see your concern. Jtscherne if I remember when you moved to switched to one of those companies. Who knows how that will go?


----------



## alfbinet

Anyone losing OTA HDTV via Dish 6000 receiver? I can't receive ABC at all. NBC is strong, WVIz is nada. TNT is good. Seem to be losing locals OTA.


----------



## jtscherne

First off, TNT isn't OTA and WVIZ is running extremely low power so it is very difficult to get them. Otherwise, it all depends on your antenna setup. I have a 942 and living in South Euclid I'm able to pick up NBC, ABC, CBS very well and Fox reasonably well.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alfbinet* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone losing OTA HDTV via Dish 6000 receiver? I can't receive ABC at all. NBC is strong, WVIz is nada. TNT is good. Seem to be losing locals OTA.


----------



## JJkizak

I see channel 17.5 is now on line. Although not a rabid viewer of same.


JJK


----------



## bassguitarman

Anybody have the lowdown on Adelphia in Bath,Copley Oh.

I wonder how much it will cost plus also high speed iternet and HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody have the lowdown on Adelphia in Bath,Copley Oh.
> 
> I wonder how much it will cost plus also high speed iternet and HD



Believe it or not I actually think if you call Adelphia they will give you a good answer on this question.










Here's the number: 1-888-683-1000


----------



## MusicAngel99

Hi all!

First of all, you are going to have to excuse me because I am very new to the HDTV scene (Hence my reason for posting) My husband and I recently purchased a Samsung 61" HDready TV. We are current subscribers of Dish Network and thus far I have been very happy with the signal and picture quality on our tube TVs, but unsatisfied with their customer service regarding HD.


I called up about a week ago to let them know about our new purchase and specifically asked how we could get our local HD channels (We want to be able to view Browns games, local newscasts, etc.) They told me that they would be sending someone out to upgrade us to an HD receiver and that there would be a $100 non-refundable installation charge for this. I grumbled and asked if we could just pick up the box and install it ourselves, but this was not an option.


So, the gentleman came out this week and installed the new receiver. Much to my dismay, we realized that we did NOT get local channels through this - only the ones that Dish Network offers like ESPN, TNT, Discovery, etc. There are about 5 total and here we are paying an extra $10 per month for this! I was very upset and asked about locals and the installer said that we would need an off-air antenna for this and said they were about $30 at Best Buy and looked like rabbit ears.


I was upset that we were not told this up front, but went out and purchased the rabbit ears. With these, we are able to get in Fox 8 very well and also some local "bible channels" - but we don't seem to be able to tune into CBS, ABC, etc - this is what we really want so that we can watch Browns games and the Fiesta Bowl!!


I called Dish Network back even more upset that we were so misled! I asked SPECIFICALLY about LOCAL HD channels and they pretty much just told us what we wanted to hear to get the sale - I went through about 4 levels of management and got nowhere. I will continue to work on getting a refund.


However - in the meantime, I demanded that someone come out and do their best to help us tune in the locals - a local man came out and he was VERY nice. He was very honest and said that he saw this a lot. He explained that:


We don't even need the HD receiver to get LOCAL HD channels.

We will probably need to get an "on the roof antenna" to get things like CBS and

ABC

By 2007, stations will be required to broadcast in HD so we're in a "Transition

period"

Dish Network has the most HD channels available right now of all the satellite

companies that he has seen.


My questions for all of you are:

Is he telling the truth?


What kind of "on the roof" antenna do you think that we are going to need? We live in Tallmadge, OH which is basically a suburb of Akron. Will we even be able to tune in the channels that I am interested in?


How much will something like this cost? Is it easy to install yourself? If you get it

installed, what will someone charge for this?


Would I be better off ditching the dish and going with a cable company for now?

We used to have Time Warner, but they were SO expensive. We were paying

$79.99 per month for regular digital cable with NO special channels - how much

would it cost us per month to get HD channels through them? I am paying $50

per month for Dish Network including the HD channels.


On a separate note - I do understand that having a 61" TV does result in

a "grainier" picture when you're not watching an HD signal. However, before we

ad our HD receiver, the picture would take up the whole 16x9 screen - it wasn't

the best possible picture, but it wasn't too bad and it wasn't stretched out or

zoomed or anything. Now that we have this new receiver, there seems to be NO

WAY to get it to fill the whole screen without either stretching it or "zooming",

which looks even worse. It automatically defaults to a 4x3 compressed image

with black bars on the side. I actually liked it better BEFORE we had the HD

receiver. I have tried to play with both settings on the Satellite remote and our

TV remote with no luck. Any hints???



Sorry about this long winded message, but you all seem to be very helpful! If it would be easier to email me an answer, please feel free to do so. Thanks in advance and I hope everyone has a great new year!


----------



## jtscherne

Lots of stuff, including some mistakes, so I'll start and see what others add.


If it's an HD READY TV, you still need an HD tuner to get the signals into the TV. If it's an HD TV (with an HD tuner built in) then you don't need the tuner. Since you indicated HD ready, you would still need some kind of tuner, even if you were going to just go over the air.


2007 is when TV stations must go DIGITAL (as opposed to analog, which is what it is now). That's not the same as high definition. For your purposes, your TV is ready to go.


As for receiving local stations over the air (abbreviated as OTA in most places), you need to use some sort of antenna. I don't know about the Tallmadge area, but given the distance from Cleveland, you probably will need a roof antenna to get everything (and you still might not get them all).


As for the Browns, only a few of their games this year were in HD, and tomorrow's game won't be anyway. Supposedly CBS will go all HD next year for NFL, but we'll see...


Finally, check and see if TWC has a broadcast basic package that would get you only the basic local channels, plus HD. Adelphia has a package like this which is very inexpensive. It only includes the first 20 or so regular channels, plus a few bucks for the HD box. Make sure you tell them that you only want HD locals, so get the cheapest you can.


Dish will be offering locals eventually, but it won't be for awhile in Cleveland and will probably require a new HD receiver. I know you trusted a salesperson, so it's good to continue to ask questions here before spending any more money. Good luck getting a refund though. They'll probably say they told you, since their website mentions how they handle local HD channels.


Sorry for your problems with them.


Oh yes, about your picture. HD signals come through as 16X9 (widescreen), while the standard TV is 4:3 (more square). The only way to view a standard image on a widescreen TV is to either stretch it to fit the whole screen or use the bars on the sides. The bars will give you a better picture because you won't have to stretch the image. I think you'll find that given time, you'll get used to the standard image for standard definition. I don't know which DISH receiver you have, but my remote has a "format" button on it. It's the "*" key in the lower left corner. When I hit it, a standard screen fills the screen a number of different ways.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dish Network has the most HD channels available right now of all the satellite
> 
> companies that he has seen.
> 
> 
> My questions for all of you are:
> 
> Is he telling the truth?



I do cable and from what I read in this forum it appears to me that the antenna thing is easy for some and not so easy for others. It kind of depends on where you live and what you got that might block signals


He is correct in saying Dish has more HD then any "other" satellite company, but keep in mind the only other company is Direct TV.


If I didn't have HD I'd prefer satellite. But where the sat companies are at now with HD it's my opinion that cable is better. I looked at what Dish is offering on the Voom plan and quite honestly I don't see myself watching a great deal of those channels. Cable offers 4 premium HD channels (at least Adelphia does) plus your locals without the hassle of the antenna. For me I'm sure the antenna would be a nightmare, I'm surrounded by hills and woods. There are a couple people in this forum who do both cable and OTA (over the air). Also Adelphia offers INHD, INHD2 (which does carry MLB) HDnet and HDnet Movies. PBS, Discovery, ESPN, ESPN2, and the NFL Network are also available.


The most important thing as far as I'm concerned is local stations and since Adelphia carries ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX in HD that's the important ones. And no antenna required.


----------



## rlockshin

You can stick with Dish Network and just put an antenna on your roof. I have used Cleveland Antenna Service and have been VERY HAPPY with them. I have referred others to them and they have also been pleased. Assuming no major problems, cost will be around $300-$350.

They do very professional work. If you use a rotor , you should be able to pull in Youngstown channels also. Cost will be a litle higher. Call Jim West at 440.237.6888. Tell him that I sent you. You will be pleased. They can also check your dish alignment. I had mine put in by a Direct Tv installer and Jim West readjusted it and the signal was MUCH stronger.

I have had big and little satellite for over 15 years and it is hard to find a good installer.

Jim and his son Joel are excellent.

Hope this helps


----------



## jtscherne

One more thing:


To get the best picture possible, you should check your video settings (contrast, brightness, etc.) Most big TVs come from the store with the contrast way too high, as well as other problems. There are a couple of DVDs out there that can help with this. There are also people who will come in and do it for you, but try to adjust it yourself first.


----------



## MusicAngel99

Wow!

Thank you so much for your quick replies! They have been truly helpful!

Actually, we do have an HDTV, it's not HD-Ready. This means that we don't really need the HD receiver for locals right?


Also, thank you for the antenna recommendation - it helps to know that you are in the Akron area and are able to get the Cleveland Local stations!


I appreciate all the feedback!


----------



## ZManCartFan

A couple of other things to add.


First, you may want to check http://www.antennaweb.org , as that will give you the recommendations for what type of antenna you need based on your specific address. This will be good info to be armed with if you do choose to have someone install the antenna for you. It will also show you what channels you may expect to receive with an antenna to begin with.


Second, even though you're entrenched in the Dish satellite service, DirecTV will begin offering local channels in HD after the first of the year. It will require a new receiver box than what is available now, but it will also usher in an expected 10 to 20 new HD channels by the end of 2006. If you're looking to switch from Dish, it may be worth it to head over to the HD Programming forum on here to look around.


In the mean time, if you're looking for the Fiesta Bowl by Monday, you may want to just find a Radio Shack and purchase a large outdoor antenna and a stick. Check their return policy, as some won't let you take back an antenna. But if they do, it might be good enough to just run a wire to your TV for Monday's game.


Anyway, good luck!


----------



## oldavnut

Hi, I'm in Cleveland Height, adelphia subscriber and Browns fan. But my son-in-law is from Pitts. Is it possible to watch steelers game here tomorrow? It will be on Fox at 1:00pm, not on adelphia in this area. I have a roof-top antenna, remnant of voom, and not used a year. Can get the signal by OTA? I'd like to be with my grandson one more day. Thanks much.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One more thing:
> 
> 
> To get the best picture possible, you should check your video settings (contrast, brightness, etc.) Most big TVs come from the store with the contrast way too high, as well as other problems. There are a couple of DVDs out there that can help with this. There are also people who will come in and do it for you, but try to adjust it yourself first.



I might add on this statement that both INHD and HDnet (available only on cable)







have test patterns available for you to do this. They work much better then the DVD's.


If you do hire a professional get recommendations. There's probably someone in this forum who has a name for you .


----------



## JJkizak

I live in Twinsburg with a 177" antenna and 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1,43.2, 61.1 come in pretty good and steady. 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 17.4 17.5, , 50.1 (no signal) 50.2, 50.3, 50.4 seem to be at low power and usually fade in and out which totally drives the viewer nuts.


JJK


----------



## TLaz

Has their transmitter been fixed so that they are transmitting at full power? I'm having problems receiving their signal tonight.


----------



## MusicAngel99

_I live in Twinsburg with a 177" antenna and 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1,43.2, 61.1 come in pretty good and steady. 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 17.4 17.5, , 50.1 (no signal) 50.2, 50.3, 50.4 seem to be at low power and usually fade in and out which totally drives the viewer nuts.


JJK_


Hmm...this is interesting because here in Tallmadge, 17 and 50 are the only ones that we get well along with an occasional good signal with Fox so far







I definitely gotta get that antenna up on the roof!


----------



## Lab Rat

Hi guys! I'm new to this and have some questions for all you experts... I have a large antenna on the side of my house on a 30' tower- on top of that the antenna is on a rotor with an additional 5 ft mast... we've had the antenna for approx 6 or 7 years but it has been disconnected for quite some time (since dish got cleveland locals). anyway we recently got a new tv and i'm wondering if it would be worth it to buy an hd receiver (probably a used one off ebay- i'm cheap) i am located in Huron (zip 44839) and the antenna itself is a directional antenna i would estimate to be 8-10ft long- would this antenna work and would i get a decent enough signal here? antenna web puts me at around 44-45miles to each of the stations


Thanks!


Lab Rat


----------



## ZManCartFan

LabRat-


Try http://www.antennaweb.org . I think this may answer your questions based upon your specific address.


Also, WalMart has a cheap HD receiver that is only good for getting locals. I think it runs about $100. Perhaps you could try it with that receiver and return it if you either can't get the locals or the box stinks.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow!
> 
> Thank you so much for your quick replies! They have been truly helpful!
> 
> Actually, we do have an HDTV, it's not HD-Ready. This means that we don't really need the HD receiver for locals right?
> 
> 
> Also, thank you for the antenna recommendation - it helps to know that you are in the Akron area and are able to get the Cleveland Local stations!
> 
> 
> I appreciate all the feedback!



I'm a longtime Dish Network subscriber, I got it in Feb. '97. Back in those days there were no local channels at all. The only way top get the broadcast networks was to subscribe to the NYC and or LA stations. You had to qualify in order to get the networks, since there is a law that you cannot subscribe to "distant" stations if you could receive a local affilliate of that same network over the air. Some subscribers gave fake addresses to get the networks and eventually both E* (the abbr. for Dish Network) and D* (abbr. for DirecTv) as well a company called "Prime Time 24" which had a similar service on the "big dish" using stations form several different markets to make up a set of east and west coast feeds of the big 4 networks (actually E* used Prime Time 24's stations at first) were sued by the NAB and the big 4 networks to stop selling distants to unqualified subscribers.


Long story short - I don't subscribe to the Cleveland locals from E*, I get them OTA. First in analog and now I get the digital OTA stations using an E* 921 DVR.


All E* HD recveivers are capable of receiving OTA stations, however you need a good rooftop antenna to get the signals (unless you live in the Parma antenna farm which is the only area where rabbit ears work well enough for digital signals).


The model 811 receiver, while not a DVR, is probably your best choice, as the local stations will have their program information in the electronic program guide even if you do not subscribe to the satellite-delivered Cleveland locals.


If I had to do it all over again I'd get the 811, E*'s DVR's are buggy


----------



## hdtv4prs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Twinsburg with a 177" antenna and 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1,43.2, 61.1 come in pretty good and steady. 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 17.4 17.5, , 50.1 (no signal) 50.2, 50.3, 50.4 seem to be at low power and usually fade in and out which totally drives the viewer nuts.
> 
> 
> JJK



I live about 45 miles south of Cleveland and get some HD stations with my old antenna on a 30'tower. Looking to get a new system. What kind of antenna and pre-amp antenna do you have ( make and antenna #). This maybe what I am looking for. I don't get anywhere as many HD channels as you do.


----------



## yespage

Is 5.1 and 19.1 having issues? For the past couple of weeks I've been having problems getting 5.1 and 19.1 OTA. What's odd is that 3.1 and 3.2 are coming in just fine, suggesting it may not be me, and 5.1 has always been strong for me. WEWS seems strong, but it'll cut out on me, being near full strength and then nothing. Very annoying.


I know WOIO-DT is a pesky channel for me to get because it is very touchy with the antenna, but I'd think if WOIO-DT went out, so would WKYC.


----------



## jal1

What's the story with 3-1? It is lower power than normal, and the signal keeps pixelating.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jal1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the story with 3-1? It is lower power than normal, and the signal keeps pixelating.



Given that the game isn't broadcast in HD, what difference does it make? Seriously, I'm getting a strong signal OTA and it's about the same strength as usual.


----------



## Inundated

A couple of notes here for our newcomer from Tallmadge:


I live in northwest Akron - old Northampton Township area, about 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm, and with an indoor antenna, I get nearly all the locals with strong signals out my second story loft window. And I even have some trees around. But, I suspect you'd need a little more antenna firepower out in Tallmadge.


I'd strongly advise putting up a roof antenna if you can, there. For a few reasons - it'll make you less susceptible to signal strength, and with a rotor or it pointed the right way, you could even get stations from the Youngstown market. Right now, only WFMJ/21 (NBC) and WYTV/33 (ABC) are up in digital form...WKBN/27 (CBS) is a straggler for some reason. But they'd provide you with alternate network affiliates if you have problems out of Cleveland, or if they pre-empt network shows in Cleveland.


You should have little problem getting at very least WFMJ-DT out of Tallmadge with a rooftop antenna pointed the right direction (and no obstructions out to the east). WYTV-DT isn't as powerful, and WKBN-DT isn't on yet. WNEO-DT out of Salem gets you the identical feed to WEAO-DT (PBS) out of Akron.


If you're happy with satellite, and just not happy with how you got mislead by the Dish salesman, you might wanna look into DirecTV, which will reportedly have HD "local into local" for the Cleveland market soon. That means they'll actually use your satellite system to send down the local HDTV network affiliates (DT versions of NBC/3, ABC/5, FOX/8 and CBS/19) and you wouldn't even need the antenna. This won't happen until possibly spring or early summer, so you might wanna go ahead and get the antenna anyway.


----------



## JJkizak

hdtv4prs:

The antenna is a Discovery D-9000 available at MCM Electronics part #30-1075.

Cost is $90.00 and is shippable via UPS. I assume there are better ones available.

I tried three different pre-amps but they all attenuated the signal worse than the hdtv tuner front end. Ended up without any pre-amps. I am presently using the LG 3510a tuner with the DVD drive.


JJK


----------



## Commodore 64

I live in Kent, OH so my tunign environment isn't all that different than Tallmadge. Additionally, I live in a valley with lots of trees and a large watertower nearby. I've got a difficult tuning environment, but I get FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS (The digital channels) with no problems. I can even grab the Youngstown UHF channels without rotating my antenna, because I use an omnidirectional UHF.


It took a lot of time, energy and money to get htings working right, but I documented it pretty well in the HTPC forum. The following link is HTPC and HDTV Tuner card centric, but there are links to the antennas I use and a pretty long description of my problems. I hope it helps some people here.


I link to Solid Signal for the Antennas, I got free shipping and since they came from Michigan, I had them in one day. I highly recommend them. The problem with OTA HDTV in the Cleveland are is that a couple of stations are VHF and the Others are UHF. Regarding the UHF channels, I couldn't get a strong enough signal due to my location (i.e. trees, valley, watertower) with the Channel Master combo antenna. I needed an omnidirectional with more gain. In case it is not clear, I removed the UHF protion (Yagi) of my Channel Master combo antenna, and mounted the Omnidirectional UHF above the VHF portion of the Channel Master, and then ran separate coaxial cable baluns from each one--I combined the signal with a standard Rat Shack combiner and then ran ~ 80' off the roof and down into my living room. The signal is srtong enough that I can split it there and run it to 2 separate TV Tuner cards without a problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=multipathing


----------



## paule123

Anybody else noticing the vertical banding and ghosting on the SD feed (regular analog channel 5) of the Ohio State/ND game? The HD looks excellent but the SD looks pretty bad, just like some previous ABC college football games....


----------



## EricG

Anyone else lose the HD feed with 20 sec to go in the Fiesta Bowl. It don't get back on till about 9:15 and has been in and out ever since. My reception on all other OTA HD looks great. I'm even getting 8-1, which I rareley get.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else lose the HD feed with 20 sec to go in the Fiesta Bowl. It don't get back on till about 9:15 and has been in and out ever since. My reception on all other OTA HD looks great. I'm even getting 8-1, which I rareley get.



Reception of WEWS-DT has be more difficult than usual in the last few weeks for me. Thankfully the signal did not drop out during the game for me.


I asked earlier if WEWS' transmitter problems had been fixed and they were transmitting at full power, does anyone know?


----------



## ajstan99

All channels were coming in OK with the exception of WEWS tonight. Luckily I found an antenna position that worked for most of the game. Now, I can't get WEWS in at all.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else lose the HD feed with 20 sec to go in the Fiesta Bowl. It don't get back on till about 9:15 and has been in and out ever since. My reception on all other OTA HD looks great. I'm even getting 8-1, which I rareley get.



I watched the game in HD until the end on WOW cable and had no drop outs.


----------



## BrainDamaged




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched the game in HD until the end on WOW cable and had no drop outs.




Yeah, I watched it on HD on Cox cable and had no drop outs but from about mid thru the 3rd Quarter to the end of the game it got real blocky almost like it was losing every other frame.


----------



## MusicAngel99

Thanks for the additional tips, everyone!!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I asked earlier if WEWS' transmitter problems had been fixed and they were transmitting at full power, does anyone know?



I've had the same issue. I'm at 80 to 100% then 0%. Gets annoying. Hope it's fixed by Saturday at 8 PM.


----------



## intermod

WEWS Bucks game ?


Hey Everyone, My first post in along time, Welcome to all the new members.

I went over my budd's house to watch the bucks game yesterday on his HD Ready Rear

projection set with a Samsung SIRT450 /451? Cant recall but whenever that big

spinning ABC logo would come on his screen would go black for a few seconds, like

it was "buffering up" . There were no other issues with the broadcast Except that.

After we drank all his beer I came home and watched the Tenn. georgia Game on my

F38310 with no issues at all. the pix looked fantastic!. We both get 15 OTA. He

is comming out of the STB via component.



My Question is: Can these STB's handle a full Bandwidth Pix OK? Seemed like if the background was a helmet or the field it was ok but if the background was the fans in the

stands it would black out everytime. Damn annoying, they shot that graphic up before

every replay and by the time the thing started working again the replay was about over.

Audio was ok through all this "Thank God!" and the beer was good and cold.


On a totally unrelated topic CC called my house today and I renewed my protection

plan on my RCA F38310 for another year. That thing has been working flawlessly for

4 years now! I cant recall how to check that hour meter thing in it but we use it all

the time.


The wife and I were talking about when we first got the set the other day, back

when the only HD was the ABC Sunday night movie that may or may not have had any

audio, and some NBC stuff. How far we've come!


Well again Welcome to all the new members and Hey to all the Old Timers!

Happy New Year


----------



## JJkizak

The Ohio State game was flawless on my setup with the LG-3510a tuner. Signal strength usually sits around 3/4 to 7/8 of max. I did have a Samsung T165 tuner but it smoked, then I got another one and the 4 x 3 analog was always distorted in the horizontal direction by about 10% causing people to look fat so I gave it to my guru buddy last year and he hasn't hooked it up yet.


JJK


----------



## flatiron

Is anyone else having problems with WEAO? Yesterday, they seemed to have 6 subchannels (with nothing on any of them) instead of the usual 4, and today they seem to be off the air completely.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having problems with WEAO? Yesterday, they seemed to have 6 subchannels (with nothing on any of them) instead of the usual 4, and today they seem to be off the air completely.



Same here.


----------



## blipszyc

(I tried searching for this topic but couldn't find anything)


Who's fault is it that Surface is broadcast with the wrong aspect ratio. I want to think its NBC itself since the stupid ads at the bottom that occasionally pop up seem to be correct, but the rest of the show is squeezed. Unfortunately, my TV locks zoom modes when fed a 720/1080 signal, so there's nothing I can do except hear my wife ***** about it and then give her the same story that it's NBCs fault. Can this be corrected by our local affiliate?


----------



## EricG

I'm getting Signal from 0 to 11 to 20 to 7 to 10 to 0 on WEWS-DT right now. I'd like to watch the Rose Bowl. C'mon Channel 5, get with it!


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (I tried searching for this topic but couldn't find anything)
> 
> 
> Who's fault is it that Surface is broadcast with the wrong aspect ratio. I want to think its NBC itself since the stupid ads at the bottom that occasionally pop up seem to be correct, but the rest of the show is squeezed. Unfortunately, my TV locks zoom modes when fed a 720/1080 signal, so there's nothing I can do except hear my wife ***** about it and then give her the same story that it's NBCs fault. Can this be corrected by our local affiliate?



This should probably be in the Cleveland local thread...


The problem was that WKYC forgot to flip the HD switch during the show, so you were watching the (letterboxed) SD feed upconverted to 1080i HD and stretched to fill the screen. You won't see any pop-up ads on the real HD feed.


----------



## HDTVFanAtic

Isn't WKYC still owned by NBC?


So they messed up on their own O&Os on Monday night in Cleveland and Chicago......why shouldnt I be surprised.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (I tried searching for this topic but couldn't find anything)
> 
> 
> Who's fault is it that Surface is broadcast with the wrong aspect ratio. I want to think its NBC itself since the stupid ads at the bottom that occasionally pop up seem to be correct, but the rest of the show is squeezed. Unfortunately, my TV locks zoom modes when fed a 720/1080 signal, so there's nothing I can do except hear my wife ***** about it and then give her the same story that it's NBCs fault. Can this be corrected by our local affiliate?



I'm wondering the same thing. It should be in HD but the last few episodes have been in 480i widescreen and when I record it on my DVR it looks like crap.


I'm going to try and get hold of WKYC and see if I can get an answer on this. It looks like somebody isn't throwing a switch, but Las Vegas, which follows is just fine.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTVFanAtic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Isn't WKYC still owned by NBC?



According to Wkyc.com they are owned by Gannett Broadcasting.


I have heard a few past HD surface episodes were not delivered in time for broadcast. The episode Monday was broadcast in HD in Cincinnati.


----------



## bassguitarman

Took the plunge, ordered Adelphia digital cable, high speed internet and even the HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Took the plunge, ordered Adelphia digital cable, high speed internet and even the HD.



Did you get a DVR? If you did make sure they give you an 8300 and not the 8000.


----------



## bassguitarman

yes on DVR

they offered no option on model but I'm getting HD too


----------



## intermod

RE: Samsung SIRT-451


FWIW my buddy exchanged his Samsung STB at CC and no problems with the other Bowl

games on WEWS.


----------



## bassguitarman

Yes I got the 8300 box

very nice !


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes I got the 8300 box
> 
> very nice !



OK, now you may want to go here there's some good information available for you about tricks and short cuts. Also you might want to go to the Scientific Atlanta web site where you can learn some other stuff.


Most of the time the cable company does not set the box up correctly so you want to make sure you have at least 1080i, 720p, and 480i set up on your receiver. When they set mine up they put it on 1080i only and that really does not give you maximum beneifit.


Also FYI I have mine set at 1080i, 720p, and 480p....I heard that setting it at 480p will give a better picture on the analogs, but I can't say for sure that is true. The only time the 8300 uses 480p is if you tune to the music stations.


And one more thing too. You may have to wait to get a software update so it might not be active right now but the SATA port is now active in our area. You can attach an external hard drive to expand your recording memory capability.


----------



## intermod

BB wl _ame a ddiioo s x's tonight!


Local crap seems fine


----------



## bassguitarman

Cool thanks

Already have the link to the SA web site

Also the installer was good and enabled all the RES's my plasma supports.


----------



## Bullsquid

Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and and would like some advise please. Just purhased a CM 3020 antenna and CM7777 amplifier to receive local HD. I also current have Dishnetwork. After I install my antenna, should I connect the cable directly to my HD Tv, or run the line into my Dishnetwork box? The DN box has an antenna input. I am wondering since I do subscribe to the locals with DN will the box broadcast HD OTA or dish signal to my TV? Also I am thinking about running the OTA signal to my computer so I can record shows. Will a splitter effect the picture quality? Sorry for all the questions but I am defiantly a greenhorn on this!!! Thanks in advance.


Bob


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and and would like some advise please. Just purhased a CM 3020 antenna and CM7777 amplifier to receive local HD. I also current have Dishnetwork. After I install my antenna, should I connect the cable directly to my HD Tv, or run the line into my Dishnetwork box? The DN box has an antenna input. I am wondering since I do subscribe to the locals with DN will the box broadcast HD OTA or dish signal to my TV?



You should connect the antenna to the antenna input on the Dish HD receiver. Since you subscribe to locals, you should get the guide data for the HD channels via satellite, but the actual HD signals will come in via the antenna (since Dish does not have HD locals via satellite at this time).


BTW, I assume that you have an HD Receiver from Dish Network. A standard Dish receiver will not receive any HD channels (satellite or OTA). I only point this out because you do not indicate what Dish receiver you are using.


Disclaimer: I have DirecTV, not Dish, but believe it works the same way.


EDIT: If Dish is like DirecTV, you should see the OTA HD channels integrated with the satellite channels (i.e., same Guide, no need to change inputs, etc.)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also I am thinking about running the OTA signal to my computer so I can record shows. Will a splitter effect the picture quality? Sorry for all the questions but I am defiantly a greenhorn on this!!! Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Bob



Unless your signals are marginal, you should be able to split the signal and run it to your computer. I split my OTA signal 3 ways with no problems. YMMV.


Hope this helps.


----------



## TLaz

What's going on with WEWS-DT's OTA transmission. WEWS used to be one of the strongest stations I received. In the last few weeks I have only intermittantly be able to receive it. Is anyone else having problems?


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's going on with WEWS-DT's OTA transmission. WEWS used to be one of the strongest stations I received. In the last few weeks I have only intermittantly be able to receive it. Is anyone else having problems?


*I am having the same problem 8 and 43 are sronger signal.*


----------



## stuart628

I am getting them just fine on my 811, but they are at the 50 percent range, which is weird because anything below 65 and my 811 wont show video or audio but this channel works great!


----------



## RLucky82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having problems with WEAO? Yesterday, they seemed to have 6 subchannels (with nothing on any of them) instead of the usual 4, and today they seem to be off the air completely.



Still off the air for me







( ...Maybe they getting the "legal issues" cleared up


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's going on with WEWS-DT's OTA transmission. WEWS used to be one of the strongest stations I received. In the last few weeks I have only intermittantly be able to receive it. Is anyone else having problems?



I watched a recording of "In Justice" on my DVR from Friday (Adelphia). It looked pretty bad, sound break ups and pq was not the best. Looked like there was some kind of problem to me.


I'll probably look at Desperate Housewives tonight so I'll see if it was still a problem later.


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should connect the antenna to the antenna input on the Dish HD receiver. Since you subscribe to locals, you should get the guide data for the HD channels via satellite, but the actual HD signals will come in via the antenna (since Dish does not have HD locals via satellite at this time).
> 
> 
> BTW, I assume that you have an HD Receiver from Dish Network. A standard Dish receiver will not receive any HD channels (satellite or OTA). I only point this out because you do not indicate what Dish receiver you are using.
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: I have DirecTV, not Dish, but believe it works the same way.
> 
> 
> EDIT: If Dish is like DirecTV, you should see the OTA HD channels integrated with the satellite channels (i.e., same Guide, no need to change inputs, etc.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless your signals are marginal, you should be able to split the signal and run it to your computer. I split my OTA signal 3 ways with no problems. YMMV.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thanks Flatiron for the reply. That clears things up a bit!


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RLucky82* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still off the air for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( ...Maybe they getting the "legal issues" cleared up



Today they're back with 4 subchannels, only now there are color bars on 50.1.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's going on with WEWS-DT's OTA transmission. WEWS used to be one of the strongest stations I received. In the last few weeks I have only intermittantly be able to receive it. Is anyone else having problems?



Same here today - WEWS only 70-75% (good enough for a solid lock, though). Any other time they would be 100%. They are normally my strongest signal here.


----------



## hookbill

I just got off the phone with someone at WKYC who actually returned my voice mail concerning the fact that Surface hasn't been in HD the last couple of weeks. He's blaming it on a transmitter problem saying he needs to receive the part from NBC in New York....however I told him that's odd because Las Vegas and other shows following Surface were fine.


He said he would take a look tonight, hopefully it will be in HD. If not he will look into it further. He did seem concerned that there was a problem with the HD transmission and apologized, but it seemed his answer was a bit stange to me.


I mentioned the AVS forum and told him to feel free to drop a comment, as other engineers from other stations have from time to time.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same here today - WEWS only 70-75% (good enough for a solid lock, though). Any other time they would be 100%. They are normally my strongest signal here.



Tonight, I had the HD tuner going and WEWS was much weaker than it normally is here. With a properly aimed indoor antenna, it usually blows the doors off the signal meter...but tonight on my Fusion5HDTV USB unit, WEWS-DT was only at about 65-70%.


I had no problem getting a solid lock, either, even when it dropped to 62% once or twice...but there is clearly a problem with WEWS-DT. Can anyone find out? I've written them E-Mail before, but they apparently ignore those.


----------



## rlockshin

WJW is also weak.They lost one of their transmitters. I am also receving a low signal strength on WEWS.36-50 and signal is still there. What does their engineers say?


----------



## rlockshin

Just spoke with engineering at WEWS. One side of their transmitter is down that is why signal strength is low. Good news, they have received their dolby digital decoding equipment from ABC and it should be up and running soon. That leaves only WOIO without it


----------



## Commodore 64

I noticed WEWS was weaker than usual as well this past weekend. During the NFL Playoffs, I would get macroblokcing and a sound dropouts now and again.


I hope they get it resolved before the Superbowl, (ABC has the Superbowl, don't they?)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope they get it resolved before the Superbowl, (ABC has the Superbowl, don't they?)



Indeed, they do...and it's ABC's last NFL game, as MNF moves to ESPN, and NBC joins up for Sunday nights next season.


More sports news... a popular local media blog spotted an item in the Pittsburgh newspaper, of all places, that says 6 Cavs games are going to be in HDTV the remainder of this NBA season:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...next-hdtv.html


----------



## Commodore 64

I wish I could sign up for jsut ESPN and whatever channel most of the Indians games will be on. We don't have cable or Satellite and we don't really watch much TV...but not haveing Monday Night Football isn't going to be cool.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Indeed, they do...and it's ABC's last NFL game, as MNF moves to ESPN, and NBC joins up for Sunday nights next season.
> 
> 
> More sports news... a popular local media blog spotted an item in the Pittsburgh newspaper, of all places, that says 6 Cavs games are going to be in HDTV the remainder of this NBA season:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...next-hdtv.html



Is it possible that these would be on WUAB? This would be cool, although not likely with Raycom owning the station.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it possible that these would be on WUAB? This would be cool, although not likely with Raycom owning the station.



They're FSN Ohio games, so if they do show up in HD here, they'd have to be on FSN Ohio. Now, of course, there's no FSN Ohio HD, so the blog post is probably a good guess...that they'd run on InHD or InHD2, which are basically set up to handle local sports HD broadcasts to preempt other programming.


----------



## stuart628

Hey guys! good humpday afternoon too you! I am hoping that tiffany or someone in the know from time warner northeast ohio is on here....There are reports and solid reports over at satguys in the time warner forum that ESPN2HD has a test channel up on time warner's system, and they are working on a contract now, and that also National Geographic will be up, as I am guessing they will have a contract already worked out!


Also as a side note if someone is interested in this (Free plug for time warner here so remember me Tiffany!) if you are wanting to do what I am doing, and it may be permanent, but with all the hoopla over Mpeg4 from both sat companies I am going to give them some time to figure out what they are doing ( and I am glad I am-read on) I called time warner and for 99 a month I am getting a HD-Dvr, another Digital box ( I upgraded for another 4.99) HBo, HBO on demand, Digital cable, Road runner with aol, and also Their phone service, all that for 99 for 18 months, which I am very happy about! I have also added the HD tier for another 7 dollars, but with that all I am adding is INhd, INhd2, ESPNHD, HDnet, HDnetmovie, as locals are already for free with digital cable! Also National Geographic and Discovery Hd channels are free with a HD box, and of course ESPN2HD will be added without a raise in fees! (okay me working for time warner is over now) I think this is a great deal, and I look forward to them going ahead with Switch Video broadcasting (does anyone know when they are starting here?) and also the take over of adelphia! I hope you guys enjoy time warner! I cant wait to get my HD DVR tommorow! I am pumped!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with engineering at WEWS. One side of their transmitter is down that is why signal strength is low. Good news, they have received their dolby digital decoding equipment from ABC and it should be up and running soon. That leaves only WOIO without it



"Soon?" Super Bowl XL soon or Super Bowl XLI soon?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inudated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> More sports news... a popular local media blog spotted an item in the Pittsburgh newspaper, of all places, that says 6 Cavs games are going to be in HDTV the remainder of this NBA season:



Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't the Cavs v Bucks game in HD on WUAB-DT? I know the screen was atleast broadcasted widescreen.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't the Cavs v Bucks game in HD on WUAB-DT? I know the screen was atleast broadcasted widescreen.



WUAB-DT defaults to upconverted SD widescreen on all local programs, as does WOIO-DT. I'm 99% sure it wasn't in HD.


The item mentioned above only deals with FSN anyway.


----------



## Inundated

Anyone else getting thin green lines on top of WJW-DT's picture?


Upconverted SD material only. It doesn't show up on FOX 8 News in HD.


----------



## JJkizak

Inundated:

Mine is fine with 8 SD or HD.


JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated:
> 
> Mine is fine with 8 SD or HD.
> 
> 
> JJK



Did you check when they were running upconverted SD on the DTV signal? I'm getting the lines right now on "Seinfeld" (and in commercials!).


I'm watching via Adelphia 708. I'll check my DTV tuner in a bit...


----------



## Inundated

Nope, I'm not going crazy. It's on the OTA DTV signal as well on my Fusion5HDTV USB tuner. And just to prove I'm not seeing things, here's a screen capture from the end of "Seinfeld":











The problem is only on locally upconverted SD content. They just went to "That 70's Show" from the network at 8, which is not in HD, but looks fine. You won't see the problem again until a local commercial break.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope, I'm not going crazy. It's on the OTA DTV signal as well on my Fusion5HDTV USB tuner. And just to prove I'm not seeing things, here's a screen capture from the end of "Seinfeld":
> 
> 
> The problem is only on locally upconverted SD content. They just went to "That 70's Show" from the network at 8, which is not in HD, but looks fine. You won't see the problem again until a local commercial break.



I'm not seeing anything like that on either the Fusion 5 or DiSH 921 (both OTA). My picture looks normal.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing anything like that on either the Fusion 5 or DiSH 921 (both OTA). My picture looks normal.



OK, one more time, with feeling...


1) Are you watching the DT signal (WJW-DT)?

2) Are you watching during local commercial breaks? You won't see it in FOX network programming. You also won't see it during WJW's own HD feed of the newscast. It's only the upconverted SD WJW produces itself.


I'm beginning to think I'm crazy or something, even though I have a screen capture to prove it.







Look! Look up there!










(I'm not by my HD stuff right now, so it could be fixed by now.)


It CAN'T be just me. The problem appear(ed) on both Adelphia cable, downconverted to 480i by my SA8000HD cable box, and on my Fusion unit OTA (720p on the laptop screen). Neither of the two sources are related at all.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, one more time, with feeling...
> 
> 
> 1) Are you watching the DT signal (WJW-DT)?
> 
> 2) Are you watching during local commercial breaks? You won't see it in FOX network programming. You also won't see it during WJW's own HD feed of the newscast. It's only the upconverted SD WJW produces itself.
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to think I'm crazy or something, even though I have a screen capture to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look! Look up there!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I'm not by my HD stuff right now, so it could be fixed by now.)
> 
> 
> It CAN'T be just me. The problem appear(ed) on both Adelphia cable, downconverted to 480i by my SA8000HD cable box, and on my Fusion unit OTA (720p on the laptop screen). Neither of the two sources are related at all.



I saw some of the green stripes last night, just as you mentioned. I spoke too soon. I saw the stripes on the three tuners I own, FusionHDTV5, DiSH 921 and Accurian HDTV receivers.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I'm getting the stripes on WJW-DT also. I have a Dish 921 hooked to an analog Sony Trinitron via S-Video. At first I thought that a commercial was made to look like it was on old film, as this artifact appears like scratches on film. But when 3 commercials in a row had the same artifact I got suspicious. Thaks to all for reporting this issue. It's good to know (for once) it's not just a 921 issue. (BTW: I also checked analog ch 8 to see if the scratches appeared there - they did not)


By the way, for those of you who have a 921, in addition to these scratches do you also get pulsing chroma on WOIO-DT? It's most noticable when there is a lot of red or other colors that use red (orange or even the blue-green "Capital One" logo). Like the scratches on WJW's local commercials, this may be limited to the downconverted analog output. Fortunately this artifact does not record, delaying WOIO by 3 seconds gets rid of the pulsing. I only see it in real time. (a thought: I'll have to try delaying WJW-DT to see if the scratches go away just like the pulsing chroma does on WOIO - since both issues appear to be limited to 480i downconverted outputs)


One last observation: On WEWS I've noticed that they stopped using that lousy 15X9 stretch (yea!). I can also confirm that WEWS is still on low power. I get 70% and I'm only a little over 1 mile from the transmitter.


I wish all the local stations would get together and have one standard for 4X3 content on the digital feeds. A standard is needed once the transition is over for all those viewers using converter boxes. right now I'm constantlhy changing my view form letterbox (for true 16X9 HD content), stretch (for 4X3 content that was stretched by the broadcaster, I want to view that content in 4X3) and Zoom (for 4X3 content that was left in 4X3 by the broadcaster).


----------



## akkou

As I saw in their website, for abc HD, fox HD ..... etc direct tv uses off air antenna.

Right?


Then I guess the signal would not as good as Adelphia cable.


My RCA indoor amlifying antenna is not so good. Please give me any advice

for HD beginner. I live in Shaker HTS.


-----------------

Samsung slimfit 3080


----------



## rlockshin

If you want antenna advice, call Jim West at Cleveland Antenna at 440.237.6888 His son will come out and get locals for you. They are graet and others on this forum have used them,


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm sure he does a great job, but there are other resources that don't cost anything. Now I'm not an OTA person but I've seen many recommend www.antenna.org as a great place to start for your HD needs.
> 
> 
> Guys, if I'm incorrect on that website please correct me.



Very True, but if you do not feel like screwing around with the antenna, Cleveland Antenna is an easy way to go. No, I do not get anything for recommending them. I just want to help out people who have problems.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akkou* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As I saw in their website, for abc HD, fox HD ..... etc direct tv uses off air antenna.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> Then I guess the signal would not as good as Adelphia cable.
> 
> 
> My RCA indoor amlifying antenna is not so good. Please give me any advice
> 
> for HD beginner. I live in Shaker HTS.
> 
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Samsung slimfit 3080



Adelphia gets the local networks the same way an HD satellite receiver would - from off-air antennas. In the future that will change (as far as satellite goes) however don't knock off air reception. Unless you live too far away or in a valley, you should be able to get a great picture off air! Remember with digital, you either get a perfect picture or garbage. There is no in-between as there was with analog recetion. Cable has no real advantage unless they get the local stations via a direct connection with the TV stations. Perhaps COX Cable has that today, since that system's lines pass along the antenna farm (in fact I have seen cables run directly to the transmitter buildings for WJW & WKYC). I'm not saying it's a for-sure thing, however why else would COX run a cable to the towers (after all there are no other customers along the roadways leading the the tower shacks).


If you can receive a lockable signal, OTA beats cable and satellite for locals. Satellite is great for the fringe areas, as the quality of picture is equal everywhere within the footprint of the satellite signal. Analog cable in the fringe areas usually suck, but the trade off is multiple channels of the same networks (great for football fans) i.e. in Rock Creek you get both Cleveland and Erie stations (and if you put up an off-air antenna you can also get Youngstown probably with better PQ than cable's reception of Cleve. & Erie). But the PQ is only as good as the analog signals get at that distance. I'm not sure if any digital signals reach that far yet. At least with satellite you get a decent SD picture. The satellite companies get their signals either direct from the stations or via OTA antennas (the smaller stations use OTA and I could see the difference on WB 55 and WNEO for the short time I had E*'s Cleveland LIL's).


----------



## JJkizak

Haven't watched 8 SD that much but it is clean today and I have not noticed any green lines. My video editing friends suggest it is possibly a codec problem.


JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Haven't watched 8 SD that much but it is clean today and I have not noticed any green lines. My video editing friends suggest it is possibly a codec problem.



At least others have now reported seeing it. I thought I was getting secret messages or something







When I saw it on both my cable setup (downconverted to 480i) and my Fusion USB tuner (true HD on my laptop), I knew something was going on.


It only happened on the DT signal, not on analog WJW/8, and only when they were running upconverted SD content locally. I kept saying that, but people kept tuning to the station during other times... I'm not in the market right now, so I don't know if it's been fixed or not.


I sent a note to WJW through their website. I have no idea if they got it, or if they ever respond, or if they cared. I've sent stuff that way before, and it got to the intended destination, so I thought I'd give it another shot.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia gets the local networks the same way an HD satellite receiver would - from off-air antennas.



I don't think they can pass the signal straight through. OTA is 8VSB, and Cable is QAM. Besides the possible losses during conversion, I believe the Cable company has the option of allocating less bandwith to the channel, or applying additional compression to the signal.


I have no idea exactly what happens when a Cable company rebroadcasts an OTA HD signal. I can say that for Adelphia in Cleveland, I can see the difference between OTA and Cable, and I prefer OTA. YMMV.


----------



## Bullsquid

A little help here please. Just installed my channel master deep fringe antenna. Tried using the CM 7777 amp but received NO reception from any channels. I disconnected the amp and am getting a pretty good signal now. Do these amps work, or do I just have a defective amp? Also Tthe only digital channel I cannot receive is channel 3. The anaolg channel is very weak also. I have a rotar and that does not help either. Any suggestions? I live about 7 miles south of downtown Akron in Uniontown. Thanks.

Bob


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A little help here please. Just installed my channel master deep fringe antenna. Tried using the CM 7777 amp but received NO reception from any channels. I disconnected the amp and am getting a pretty good signal now. Do these amps work, or do I just have a defective amp? Also Tthe only digital channel I cannot receive is channel 3. The anaolg channel is very weak also. I have a rotar and that does not help either. Any suggestions? I live about 7 miles south of downtown Akron in Uniontown. Thanks.
> 
> Bob



Bob i am in mogadore, right next to you, I get all digital channels with a fairly good reading....with that being said though its different for everybody, in this area channel 3 is the hardest to get, that and woio! is your antenna outside or in?


----------



## JJkizak

Bullsquid:

I have tried several amps with poor results. Some worked, some didn't. The ones that worked had a poorer signal than the OTA HD tuner (LG 3510a). My antenna lead in is about 50 ft. and I also have the MY-HD-120 HDTV tuner card which has about the same noise figure as the LG.


JJK


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A little help here please. Just installed my channel master deep fringe antenna. Tried using the CM 7777 amp but received NO reception from any channels. I disconnected the amp and am getting a pretty good signal now. Do these amps work, or do I just have a defective amp? Also Tthe only digital channel I cannot receive is channel 3. The anaolg channel is very weak also. I have a rotar and that does not help either. Any suggestions? I live about 7 miles south of downtown Akron in Uniontown. Thanks.
> 
> Bob



There may be two potential problems that common to mind. If multipath is the problem causing proper reception, an amp may make the multipath problem worse and cause even worse reception. If the OTA signal is strong, the amp may overload the tuner and again cause worse reception. I have had both of these problems in my OTA reception adventures.


Also remember that WKYC-DT in a low frequency VHF RF channel and you need an antenna designed to receive VHF-low frequencies.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Most amplifiers were designed for analog signals, using them for digital usually only makes the matter worse. WKYC is on the worst frequency for digital (at least until the transition is over). There are analog channel 2's in both Pittsburg and Detroit (and additional interference from more distant channel 2's that will skip in from time to time). WKYC has to keep their power low to protect the analog stations.


BTW: WKYC has asked to be relocated to ch 17 once the transition is over (and WDLI vacates 17 for 39). If this is approved you shoud get WKYC-DT as well as you would get WEWS-DT which is on 15.


There is one other issue regarding WKYC. You say that the analoc ch 3 is weak too. that is not a good sign. There may be a terrestrial obstruction between Uniontown and the WKYC tower, which is on Broadview Rd at the northeastern edge of the antenna farm. I used to live in Seven Hills which is literally across Broadview Rd. from the WKYC tower. I had a terrible time getting WVPX and WEAO. The reason for this is Richfield, which is 200' higher than where I was, casting a shadow on the Akron area signals. I had no trouble getting WOAC (whoopie, a shopping channel) because their transmitter is actually in the Kent - Portage County area. I have since moved 2 miles southwest and now get gangbuster reception of WVPX and WEAO, so I'm out of the "Richfield shadow".


It's possible, due to WKYC's tower location that higher terrain is obstructing their signal to Uniontown. The rest of the Cleveland towers are just tenths of a mile west of WKYC, but that difference may take them out of the shadow. When I was in Seven Hills I could get a half decent picture on WVPX by moving my antenna to a different location - far from perfect but much better than the picture I was getting from my chimney-mounted antenna. As for WEAO I actually got a better picture from WNEO in Salem/Alliance!


As always YMMV, so try moving your antenna to a different location - a few feet one way or the other may make a big difference.


----------



## EricG

I am STILL having signal strenght problems with WEWS, it fluctuates from 0 to 40 and everywhere in between. It's hard to track it happens do fast. How do I contact someone at WEWS?. Their website is all about news and doesn't even mention the fact that they are a TELEVISION station let alone any indication of their HD broadcast capabilities. It'd be nice to at least know that they are aware of the problems in som FAQ ore something. The Scripts Howard site doesn't even list a GM for WEWS so I don't know who to call or e-mail.

The Superbowl is coming up soon. This proble need to be corrected so the quality can return to Pre Jan 1 service. MNF loooked great most of the season.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with engineering at WEWS. One side of their transmitter is down that is why signal strength is low. Good news, they have received their dolby digital decoding equipment from ABC and it should be up and running soon. That leaves only WOIO without it


----------



## Michael P 2341

Eric,

What are you using for an antenna to receive WEWS? Their transmitter is running at half-power. I'm about 1 mile from the transmitter and I'm only getting 70% signal using an indoor antenna. From Twinsburg you would probably need a good highly directional outdoor antena precisely aimed at the tower, at least until they fix the transmitter problem.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS' office phone number is 216-431-5555. Call 'em during the week and ask for either engineering or the GM's office. It sounds like they're aware of the problem, tho.


I'm in northwest Akron (old Northampton Twp. area that was annexed to Akron before the Falls got to it) and I can still get WEWS with my indoor antenna pointed out the second floor loft window towards Parma. It's about 70%-ish, where it's normally full signal. It locks pretty much all the time even now.


----------



## EricG

I haven't had too many problems with WEWS since August when I got my DirecTVHR10-250. It's only been the past few weeks that the signal has gone to crap. I've got a medium multidirectional antenna on the chimney that works fine for almost all channels. I cannot get WVIZ, but I get a beautiful signal from WNEO in Akron. I also cannot get WJW, but I get FOX from DirecTV because WJW is O&O.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Eric,
> 
> What are you using for an antenna to receive WEWS? Their transmitter is running at half-power. I'm about 1 mile from the transmitter and I'm only getting 70% signal using an indoor antenna. From Twinsburg you would probably need a good highly directional outdoor antena precisely aimed at the tower, at least until they fix the transmitter problem.


----------



## Bullsquid

Stuart628,

My antenna is mounted outside about 9 feet above my 1.5 story house. I am using the CM 3020 deep fringe antenna. I wonder, is this antenna able to pick up low frequency channels? We did have a pretty hard rain last night when I was trying my new OTA system. All other digital channels came in very strong with the exception of WKYC. Thanks for all the input from everyone!!

Bob


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stuart628,
> 
> My antenna is mounted outside about 9 feet above my 1.5 story house. I am using the CM 3020 deep fringe antenna. I wonder, is this antenna able to pick up low frequency channels? We did have a pretty hard rain last night when I was trying my new OTA system. All other digital channels came in very strong with the exception of WKYC. Thanks for all the input from everyone!!
> 
> Bob



That antenna should be good for about 100 miles on the VHF, if your analog signal is weak, then I would tend to agree with Micheal, there is def. something causing you interference between you and the tower......someone else might want to chime in though, but like I said I got WKYC and I am right next to you, I am on martin road here in its actually suffield, so I wouldnt see why you are having a problem, unless its something DIrectly in line with you and that tower./


----------



## flatiron

Looks like WOIO/WUAB, as well as WEWS, have all done away with the stretch on their local SD upconvert, which IMHO looks much better. WOIO's SD PQ also seems to be a little better (although their local news still looks terrible) - their previous stretched upconvert was practically unwatchable. Hope this lasts.


That leaves only WKYC with a stretch.


----------



## EricHarrison

I cannot get the Pitts/Indy game OTA from WOIO....are they down?


----------



## hookbill

I just finished watching it. No problems via Adelphia. Good game. Pittsburgh deserved the win. It shouldn't have been as close as it was, that reverse on the interception call was a bad call.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like WOIO/WUAB, as well as WEWS, have all done away with the stretch on their local SD upconvert, which IMHO looks much better. WOIO's SD PQ also seems to be a little better (although their local news still looks terrible) - their previous stretched upconvert was practically unwatchable. Hope this lasts.
> 
> 
> That leaves only WKYC with a stretch.




Yea the Cavs game last night still looked horrible but at least it wasnt stretched.


----------



## WJW Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At least others have now reported seeing it. I thought I was getting secret messages or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I saw it on both my cable setup (downconverted to 480i) and my Fusion USB tuner (true HD on my laptop), I knew something was going on.
> 
> 
> It only happened on the DT signal, not on analog WJW/8, and only when they were running upconverted SD content locally. I kept saying that, but people kept tuning to the station during other times... I'm not in the market right now, so I don't know if it's been fixed or not.
> 
> 
> I sent a note to WJW through their website. I have no idea if they got it, or if they ever respond, or if they cared. I've sent stuff that way before, and it got to the intended destination, so I thought I'd give it another shot.



Turns out the noise was being generated by a 480i to 720p upconverter used for syndicated programming and commercials.


----------



## Bullsquid

Well it looks like I am going to have to keep my subcription to my Dishnetwork locals. All because I cannot receive WKYC via OTA. I receive all the othe DT channls very well. That is the station I watch the most! My CM 7777 preamp was useless for my set-up. Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve WKYC reception without having to move my antenna all over my roof to find the sweet spot? Perhaps a secondary antenna? I now have the CM 3020 with a rotar installed. Any sugestions would be grateful. Thanks.


----------



## JJkizak

That's really goofy because channel 3 digital is channel 2 VHF and it should be booming in.


JJK


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well it looks like I am going to have to keep my subcription to my Dishnetwork locals. All because I cannot receive WKYC via OTA. I receive all the othe DT channls very well. That is the station I watch the most! My CM 7777 preamp was useless for my set-up. Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve WKYC reception without having to move my antenna all over my roof to find the sweet spot? Perhaps a secondary antenna? I now have the CM 3020 with a rotar installed. Any sugestions would be grateful. Thanks.



Again, my recommendation is to call a professional installer. By the time you screw around buying different equipment and moving things around, a pro can fix it. I know that it will cost some money,but I feel that it would be worth it. Your problem can be solved.

i have mentioned a company in earlier posts,call it


----------



## k2rj

How does analog channel 3 come in? Its on the same tower, just a different antenna. You may have a shorted/kinked cable somewhere in your system which could affect VHF channels 2/3 but not UHF.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Turns out the noise was being generated by a 480i to 720p upconverter used for syndicated programming and commercials.



Glad you found and fixed it! I was a little antsy about it here because people kept saying they didn't see it, when it turned out (despite the fact I made it clear about 5 times before) that it only showed up during locally originated upconverts.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's really goofy because channel 3 digital is channel 2 VHF and it should be booming in.



Yet another thing that's been posted here - sometimes I think I'm posting messages to myself.










As has been said many, many times both here and in other AVSForum threads, low-VHF channels are subject to much more electrical interference, and are much tougher for many people to pull in. WKYC-DT is on channel 2, as you correctly note above, and it's not that it doesn't have enough signal...it's the fact that electrical interference makes it a much tougher catch than the other local DT channels.


Theoretically, a high antenna aimed in the right direction within reasonable distance of the tower should make picking up even WKYC-DT easier than, say, an indoor antenna. But the same electrical noise that you see on the Channel 3 analog picture - which shows up as little "sparklies" - can cause you to be unable to get a lock on the DT picture on channel 2.


My advice - adjust that antenna so analog 3 has the best possible picture, with the fewest "sparklies", and go from there.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like WOIO/WUAB, as well as WEWS, have all done away with the stretch on their local SD upconvert, which IMHO looks much better. WOIO's SD PQ also seems to be a little better (although their local news still looks terrible) - their previous stretched upconvert was practically unwatchable. Hope this lasts.



I wonder if there's a reason that both WOIO/WUAB and WEWS killed the stretch at roughly the same time? WEWS' "not quite full" 14:9ish stretch was particularly annoying.


As for WOIO/WUAB, as far as I know, they both have NO digital equipment in that basement at Reserve Square in downtown Cleveland. Well, no digital equipment besides the upconverter and the digital transmitter. The analog video looks crummy... the upconversion doesn't help. WKYC has its "digital broadcast center" (circa 2000 or so, I believe), so they don't have the same problem.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well it looks like I am going to have to keep my subcription to my Dishnetwork locals. All because I cannot receive WKYC via OTA. I receive all the othe DT channls very well. That is the station I watch the most! My CM 7777 preamp was useless for my set-up. Does anyone have any ideas on how to improve WKYC reception without having to move my antenna all over my roof to find the sweet spot? Perhaps a secondary antenna? I now have the CM 3020 with a rotar installed. Any sugestions would be grateful. Thanks.



I'm just a little north of you off of Canton Road and I'm able to pick up channel 3-DT with no problem. I have a similar sized antenna also on a rotor and a preamp. This website will give you the exact compass heading to the tower so you will know you have it pointed in the right direction: http://antennaweb.org


----------



## gass

Rarely do I have issues with 3DT. I'm over in Suffield; with an attenna in the 2nd floor attic. ONly WEWS has issues which we all know about.


I can tell you having been in the wireless world for years that U-Town has always been an issue for cell phone operators because of the terrian.


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does analog channel 3 come in? Its on the same tower, just a different antenna. You may have a shorted/kinked cable somewhere in your system which could affect VHF channels 2/3 but not UHF.



Channel 3 is weak but visible. It does have some kind of interference effecting it though. It is not the normal snow you see on a weak channel. Someone suggested maybe electrical interference. I do have my coaxle line resting on some live electrical wires in my basement. Could that be a cause? I am going to seperate the them and see if that helps.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channel 3 is weak but visible. It does have some kind of interference effecting it though. It is not the normal snow you see on a weak channel. Someone suggested maybe electrical interference. I do have my coaxle line resting on some live electrical wires in my basement. Could that be a cause? I am going to seperate the them and see if that helps.



I'd do that pronto. I can't assure you that it's the cause, but it certainly can't be helping matters!


The interference you see is known as "sparklies", little tiny lines of interference all over a picture that would ordinarily be at least somewhat watchable. That's what's translating into your problems with the digital side of WKYC (DT 2). Clear those up as much as you can, and I'll bet you have a better shot at it.


----------



## Pucky

Sorry about this request, it's a bit late. I just wanted to know if anyone else had the same issue I had. Two Thursdays ago (1/5), during "The Office" on Adelphia 703 (WKYC-HD), about halfway through the recording on my Adelphia DVR, the program went all black and no sound. I didn't know what happened. The weird thing is, the commercials came through just fine. (i.e. it was black, then a 2 minute commercial break including a Channel 3 News teaser, then back to black for the rest of the half hour. ) I was watching this on the DVR, but since this is the first and only time it has happened, I figured it was something with the station. Did anyone else have this problem?


Thanks for any help.


----------



## hookbill

Sounds like they were having trouble with their HD. I get mine through Adelphia and I never watch live tv, but The Office isn't something I watch. the fact that everything in SD came through ok (commercials, promos) then I have to think they were having transmitting problems.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bullsquid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channel 3 is weak but visible. It does have some kind of interference effecting it though. It is not the normal snow you see on a weak channel. Someone suggested maybe electrical interference. I do have my coaxle line resting on some live electrical wires in my basement. Could that be a cause? I am going to seperate the them and see if that helps.



I believe the digital transmitter is putting out less power and its antenna is lower on the tower than the analog station. If channel 3 analog is weak, you are probably SOL. Now its possible the interference you are seeing is coming from a computer or some computer-based system. This is very common at low VHF.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I do have my coaxle line resting on some live electrical wires in my basement. Could that be a cause?



BINGO! Low band VHF will be affected by such a situation. I know coax is supposed to be sheilded, however the sheilding is no match for a live electrical line at the VHF LO frequencies. I'm willing to bet your analog reception of ch 5 is also affected, you just don't realize it because you are watching WEWS-DT on UHF 15.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe the digital transmitter is putting out less power and its antenna is lower on the tower than the analog station. If channel 3 analog is weak, you are probably SOL. Now its possible the interference you are seeing is coming from a computer or some computer-based system. This is very common at low VHF.



The power that WKYC-DT is putting out looks low on paper but I'm told that digital transmitters do not need as much power as their analog counterparts to achieve the same coverage. I looked up WKYC and found that the digital is transmitting at 8kw, with a tower height of 296.1 meters. The analog ch 3 is transmitting at 93.3kw with a tower height of 312 m. So analog is 16 meters higher that digital, with a big differece in power, but again the effective power is greatly different in digital.


I wouldn't put 296.1m in a "low tower" classifiacation, the only local broadcaster with a truely "low tower" is WVIZ at 99' and 1 kw.


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BINGO! Low band VHF will be affected by such a situation. I know coax is supposed to be sheilded, however the sheilding is no match for a live electrical line at the VHF LO frequencies. I'm willing to bet your analog reception of ch 5 is also affected, you just don't realize it because you are watching WEWS-DT on UHF 15.



Well, I removed the coaxal from the electrical wires and that did not seem to help. Looks like I am getting an outside inerference from somewhere. I am only getting a 10% reading on WKYC digital and no picture. As stated in an ealrier post of mine, I tried using the CM7777 pre-amp and no picture from any channels. I guess it amplified the signals to much? Is`nt there an anntuator(SP)? that I can install to bring the signal down a bit? I get all of the local digitals except WKKC. I really hate to call a TV man in and pay him to just receive that one channel! Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. This is great forum!!


----------



## Tom in OH

Is it possible there's an electric motor running that might be causing the interference? We lose WKYC for a few seconds everytime the refrigerator turns on(and off) and also when the furnace turns on. Ch 3 is also very sensitive to the vacuum cleaner and disappears while it's running and pops back in the second the vacuum shuts off.


----------



## JJkizak

Well, we need more info---What kind of lead-in? How long? Did you install the connectors? Do you have the correct transformer matching device at the antenna? Are there any splitters installed? Are there any distribution devices installed? Is your lead-in connected to the correct antenna input jack? Is there a VCR involved? What channel is your VCR set too if you have one? Do you have Tivo? Do you have any isolation devices installed in your lead-in? Ground breakers? How does analog channel 3 come in? Do you have anything else hooked to the lead-in---double terminated? Any "kinks" or "knot pulls" when installing the lead-in? How old is the lead-in? Is the antenna grounded according to instructions? Are all of the antenna elements snapped into the proper position? Is the antenna pointed in the proper direction---small end toward the tv station? How old is the antenna? Are the lead-in connections on the anrtenna corroded? Are your HD components ground-looping? (Some HD tuners will do this) (rolling picture, unstable, lines, etc.)


JJK


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry about this request, it's a bit late. I just wanted to know if anyone else had the same issue I had. Two Thursdays ago (1/5), during "The Office" on Adelphia 703 (WKYC-HD), about halfway through the recording on my Adelphia DVR, the program went all black and no sound. I didn't know what happened. The weird thing is, the commercials came through just fine. (i.e. it was black, then a 2 minute commercial break including a Channel 3 News teaser, then back to black for the rest of the half hour. )



I experienced the exact same thing. OTA feed into an HD Tivo. I watched it a few days late & the 2nd half of the show was exactly how you experienced it - black except for the commercials.


I'd checked here, saw no note of it & figured since it was a few days past, it might have been my setup (or no one else was watching the Office in HD). Glad to hear it was WKYC's issue - although it is annoying to watch half a show & have it go dark due to a technical problem.


----------



## rkundla

I'm using my LG LST-4200A QAM receiver to grab the clear HD TV stations off of Time Warner and have noticed some audio dropout issues, in particular while watching 24 on Fox (104-3) Monday night, I was getting 2 second drops about every 2-3 minutes.


The picture didn't get disrupted. My HK receiver didn't display anything on the OSD to indicate a significant break in the digital audio stream. It just seemed to have 'muted' itself and then back in business.


Does anyone using a QAM tuner noticed the same thing? I hope it isn't a problem with my LG.










Ron


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rkundla* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm using my LG LST-4200A QAM receiver to grab the clear HD TV stations off of Time Warner and have noticed some audio dropout issues, in particular while watching 24 on Fox (104-3) Monday night, I was getting 2 second drops about every 2-3 minutes.
> 
> 
> The picture didn't get disrupted. My HK receiver didn't display anything on the OSD to indicate a significant break in the digital audio stream. It just seemed to have 'muted' itself and then back in business.
> 
> 
> Does anyone using a QAM tuner noticed the same thing? I hope it isn't a problem with my LG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron



Don't use a QAM tuner but I recorded all 4 hours in glorious HD Dolby 5.1 on my SA 8300 via Adelphia. and it was good. There may have been a couple of sound break ups, nothing significant that I can recall. I just remember that I really enjoyed it.


----------



## paule123

There's something about Fox's 5.1 audio that has never been quite right, IMHO. My SA8000HD (on WOW cable) will get occasional audio dropouts during Fox's live football games. It used to be REALLY bad last season, but seems better this season.


----------



## jtscherne

Fox drives me crazy all the time. I get it OTA and it's the only local that I don't get in perfectly. It seems to come in reasonably strong (75%), but it never holds. The funny thing is that I got it without dropouts on Saturday and most of Sunday (halfway through the second hour of 24!). Then it went back to normal and was basically unwatchable. It's definitely frustrating.


----------



## jtscherne

Another possible problem with the Adelphia sale:

Media groups unite to oppose Adelphia deal


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another possible problem with the Adelphia sale:
> 
> Media groups unite to oppose Adelphia deal



You know I don't want to put the whammy on things but truthfully things on Adelphia have been pretty damn good over the past 6 months. Oh they still have a bunch of nonsense stations and such, but the service has actually been pretty good.


Maybe it won't be such a bad idea if the sale doesn't go through?


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, we need more info---What kind of lead-in? How long? Did you install the connectors? Do you have the correct transformer matching device at the antenna? Are there any splitters installed? Are there any distribution devices installed? Is your lead-in connected to the correct antenna input jack? Is there a VCR involved? What channel is your VCR set too if you have one? Do you have Tivo? Do you have any isolation devices installed in your lead-in? Ground breakers? How does analog channel 3 come in? Do you have anything else hooked to the lead-in---double terminated? Any "kinks" or "knot pulls" when installing the lead-in? How old is the lead-in? Is the antenna grounded according to instructions? Are all of the antenna elements snapped into the proper position? Is the antenna pointed in the proper direction---small end toward the tv station? How old is the antenna? Are the lead-in connections on the anrtenna corroded? Are your HD components ground-looping? (Some HD tuners will do this) (rolling picture, unstable, lines, etc.)
> 
> 
> JJK



OK. I am using a coaxal lead and it is about 70' long. I used the crimp syle connecters. I have the snap on types but need to get the correct tool to install them. there are no distribution devices in the line. No splitters, and it is connected directly to the TV. No devices installed on the lead cable. I had the CM 7777 Pre-amp installed but no reception at all! Now I diconnected the pre-amp and am getting all stations in the local area except channel 3 digital. Channel 3 analog is very weak and seems to come in and out at times. This happens more so when I activate my rotor. There are no kinks or loops in the line. Antenna is grounded properly, using a #6 copper wire. All antenna elements are in position. Antenna is facing the correct way for Cleveland stations. The antenna is a CM 3020 and is new. All connections are new. My TV is a 42" Hitachi with a HD tuner built in. I just want to know why the pre-amp is useless for my application? Solid signal suggested this set-up for my viewing area. I may try the amp again and re-check my connections when the weather breaks. All is great except for channel 3. I also see little sparkles on the screen when veiwing channel 3.


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does analog channel 3 come in? Its on the same tower, just a different antenna. You may have a shorted/kinked cable somewhere in your system which could affect VHF channels 2/3 but not UHF.



I just tried WKYC tonight and low and behold analog 3 was very strong with no visible interference!! I then tried the digital channels and what do ya know. All coming in very well about 56%. I did not know there is a 3.2. Good to local weather because my dish does not offer this!! I did absolutely nothing to my system today and now everything is great in Uniontown!! The only thing I can think of is due to the high winds today, I may have a bad connection at the antenna that some how righted itself due to the winds. I am going to check it out once the roof melts to see if there is a bad connection. I am just keeping fingers crossed on this one. Thanks again for the suggestions and tips from everyone.


----------



## nems345

I am a noob at OTA HD so I need advice. Is anyone in cleveland (or Chagrin Falls) using this Terk antenna? I used antennaweb.org to find what is right for me and I need a code RED UHF/VHF antenna. Will this work. I really want to have 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43 in HD! here's the link.

http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/s...4122&langId=-1


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know I don't want to put the whammy on things but truthfully things on Adelphia have been pretty damn good over the past 6 months. Oh they still have a bunch of nonsense stations and such, but the service has actually been pretty good.
> 
> 
> Maybe it won't be such a bad idea if the sale doesn't go through?



Well, the Indians contract might be held up, for one thing. I also wonder what kind of technical updates are being postponed...


----------



## Lab Rat

HI guys! I just got my ota HD receiver today- I got an old voom receiver off ebay and it works great! But- I found out I have a problem- I went to turn my antenna and the controller didn't sound quite right and the antenna didn't move... This was working just fine last week when I tested it. I'd say it's about 8 yrs old and hasn't been used in several years. Anyway I climbed up the antenna tower to see if the rotor was trying to do anything and I could hear it humming slightly but it wouldn't move. I then came back inside and disconnected the wires from the controller and when I turn the knob the indicator doesn't even move (should that still move even when it's not connected to the rotor motor?) Does this sound to you guys like a problem with the controller (it's a manual archerotor controller) or the rotor motor itself? I really hope it's the controller cause I don't know how in the world I could change the rotor- I was scared to death up there (35 or so feet up).


I'm in Huron and it just so happens that the antenna was pointed somewhere in the general direction of cleveland- I have channel 8 coming in with a 98 signal strength and 43 is about the same. I am also getting channel 5 pretty well but I cannot get 3 or 19. I'm sure the antenna isn't aimed perfectly at the moment, but do you guys think if I can fix the rotor problem I'll be able to pick up 3 & 19 out here in Huron?


Thanks (and sorry for the long winded post!)


Lab Rat


----------



## JJkizak

Bullsquid:

I have tried several amps with the same problem with adjustable gains and I believe it may be inherent with the design. I had three different amps, two worked but provided a weaker signal than my LG-3510A tuner hooked direct to the antenna. So I tossed all three amps which were over 100 bucks each. The trick here is the front end noise figure rating of the amps. Then again the amps might be notoriously junk. My antenna does not rotate so I do have problems with PBS and the channel 17 stuff. I just keep it pointed toward Cleveland. A 70 ft. lead-in is starting to creep into some major losses at 900 megs but the channel 3 thing should not be affected by this. Sometimes a ground shield not positioned perfectly around the connector will create dips in the bandpass of the cable which can be observed with a sweep generator and sufficient padding in the setup. The big guy's with money try to have a signal strength 20 db over what they need then they install a 20 db pad in the front end to reduce noise, interference, VSWR to almost nothing, and allow for impedance differences. With a fat input signal you can see red shifts in the picture when removing/installing the pad. If you have money to burn, try the 1/2" styroflex. The loss at 1000megs is .3 db and they use special connectors that will break the bank.


JJK


----------



## snagy

I took someone's advice and did contact Cleveland Antenna Service recently, within two weeks i had them come out, see what i needed and install the correct items. I'm not an antennna wiz, but the old Radio Shack antenna the previous owner had was 15 years old. I live east of Bainbridge (Geauga County) and wanted to pick up Cleveland the Youngstown stations. Very happy with the results. Only problem i have is during the day, my wife's soap opera;s fade on 5.1 otherwise everything else looks great. But since someone stated that 5.1 might be having transmitter problems, that would explain it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lab Rat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI guys! I just got my ota HD receiver today- I got an old voom receiver off ebay and it works great! But- I found out I have a problem- I went to turn my antenna and the controller didn't sound quite right and the antenna didn't move... This was working just fine last week when I tested it. I'd say it's about 8 yrs old and hasn't been used in several years. Anyway I climbed up the antenna tower to see if the rotor was trying to do anything and I could hear it humming slightly but it wouldn't move. I then came back inside and disconnected the wires from the controller and when I turn the knob the indicator doesn't even move (should that still move even when it's not connected to the rotor motor?) Does this sound to you guys like a problem with the controller (it's a manual archerotor controller) or the rotor motor itself? I really hope it's the controller cause I don't know how in the world I could change the rotor- I was scared to death up there (35 or so feet up).
> 
> 
> I'm in Huron and it just so happens that the antenna was pointed somewhere in the general direction of cleveland- I have channel 8 coming in with a 98 signal strength and 43 is about the same. I am also getting channel 5 pretty well but I cannot get 3 or 19. I'm sure the antenna isn't aimed perfectly at the moment, but do you guys think if I can fix the rotor problem I'll be able to pick up 3 & 19 out here in Huron?
> 
> 
> Thanks (and sorry for the long winded post!)
> 
> 
> Lab Rat



If you are getting a 98 on WJW you should be aimed just fine for Cleveland. The reason 3 & 19 are a no-go is because their digital signals are on VHF 2 & 10.

Is your antenna for both VHF & UHF?


Being in Huron you are probably too close to the analog ch 2 WJBK out of Detroit and the analog ch 10 out of London Ontario. Those 2 assignments made no sense at all. I always wondered what folkes in the fringe areas got on these two stations.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I took someone's advice and did contact Cleveland Antenna Service recently, within two weeks i had them come out, see what i needed and install the correct items. I'm not an antennna wiz, but the old Radio Shack antenna the previous owner had was 15 years old. I live east of Bainbridge (Geauga County) and wanted to pick up Cleveland the Youngstown stations. Very happy with the results. Only problem i have is during the day, my wife's soap opera;s fade on 5.1 otherwise everything else looks great. But since someone stated that 5.1 might be having transmitter problems, that would explain it.



I am that someone and am glad that you are happy with Cleveland Antenna. We are very lucky to have a quality company like that available to us. I am also not an antenna wiz and did not want to climb on the roof. I have had satllelite for over 20 years and have dealt with many fly by night outfits;Cleveland Antenna is not like that.


----------



## Lab Rat

Thanks Michael! My antenna is like this one . when I go to the aim antenna section on the voom receiver i am getting just around 80 on 2 and 10 so I thought if I could get my antenna to move a little I may get them to lock in- I think i'm aimed just a hair too south as it is because I am getting weao out of akron just fine too... When I do a scan for locals it pauses a while on 2 & 10 but it won't lock them in (though it actually did detect woio early this morning, but it hasn't since) and I don't have a picture on either channel.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lab Rat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Michael! My antenna is like this one . when I go to the aim antenna section on the voom receiver i am getting just around 80 on 2 and 10 so I thought if I could get my antenna to move a little I may get them to lock in- I think i'm aimed just a hair too south as it is because I am getting weao out of akron just fine too... When I do a scan for locals it pauses a while on 2 & 10 but it won't lock them in (though it actually did detect woio early this morning, but it hasn't since) and I don't have a picture on either channel.



This antenna is definitely good for VHF - as Michael P says, WKYC is likely being trashed by the Detroit CH2. As for WOIO, they run only 3.5kw and are directional - most of their power goes south, I believe. That, plus any interference from the London, ON CH10


Any chance you can get WTOL (digital on CH17) and WNWO (digital on CH 49) from Toledo? This would give you CBS and NBC, but you would most likely need a rotor if you want to get the Cleveland stations as well.


EDIT:


WTOL-DT (Toledo CBS) coverage map: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DS601801.html 


WNWO-DT (Toledo NBC) coverage map: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...x=TV56561.html 


Looks like you are just inside the coverage areas for both stations.


FYI:


WKYC: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT599350.html 


WOIO: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT428322.html 


While it appears that you are just inside the coverage for both stations, these maps do not take into account interference from other stations on the same channel.


Hope this helps.


----------



## Inundated

Read that article about the opposition to the Adelphia sale again. Half of the "groups" involved are direct competitors (DirecTV, Dish, RCN) or programmers trying to get on (CSTV).


The Adelphia sale *has* to happen. Now, it doesn't *have* to happen in the current form (TWC/Comcast), but the company is bankrupt and at some point, it'll either have to be sold or divvied up *somehow*.


As far as the Indians deal goes...I actually asked TWC's Bill Jasso about it, and he said they have no control/input over what Adelphia does before the planned acquisition. Or for that matter, what the Indians do. I haven't heard anything to suggest that Adelphia would somehow pick up the games before it would get merged into TWC, but there'll be a lot of upset Cleveland cable subscribers if they don't.


----------



## jtscherne

Since I subscribe to DISH, I'm also concerned about the Indians negotiations. One of my fears is that since there won't be 24 hour programming at first, Dish actually has to set aside channel space for the games, rather than devoting a regular channel. I intend to start emailing them on a regular basis to see if they are working on it. Since they plan on televising a number of pre-season games, this gives them about six weeks to get it done for the initial broadcasts.


----------



## WJW Engineer

Next Monday or Tuesday (1/23), WJW is hoping to install a replacement 3rd UHF tube in it's DTV transmitter. We've been on running on only two tubes for many weeks now, making only about 63% power. This third tube installed will allow us to make full power. If this increase of power is noticeable in some way at your location, we would be very much interested in hearing about it on this thread. I'll post again here when the installation is finished. Thanks all........


----------



## mike888




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you are getting a 98 on WJW you should be aimed just fine for Cleveland. The reason 3 & 19 are a no-go is because their digital signals are on VHF 2 & 10.



I've searched through this thread, and I didn't see the answer, so forgive me if I am asking an obvious question...


What is the chance that 3 & 19 will jump to *UHF* when analog goes dead?


----------



## JJkizak

WJW:

Your signal is coming in strong and steady here. About 3/4 on the strength scale whatever that means.


JJK


----------



## rocatman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since I subscribe to DISH, I'm also concerned about the Indians negotiations. One of my fears is that since there won't be 24 hour programming at first, Dish actually has to set aside channel space for the games, rather than devoting a regular channel. I intend to start emailing them on a regular basis to see if they are working on it. Since they plan on televising a number of pre-season games, this gives them about six weeks to get it done for the initial broadcasts.



I also subscribe to Dish and I am also concerned about Dish carrying the Indians. The big concern is that Fox Sports Ohio has indicated that they don't think they should give a discount to the satellite/cable providers even without the Indians because they have 24 hour programming and I am not sure Dish will pay for both the Indians and Fox Sports Ohio. My take is that I would rather have Dish carry the Indians station part time then keep Fox Sports Ohio. I am not the biggest basketball fan and the number of Cavaliers games on channel 43 and shown on national networks is enough for me. The lack of 24 hour programming for the Indians channel actually is not a problem for Dish because they are already carry games for their MLB package on a part time channel usage basis. It may actually help in terms of Dish bandwidth limitations although I would be great if this new Indians channel is in HD. I believe some if not all of the games on WKYC will be in HD.


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Next Monday or Tuesday (1/23), WJW is hoping to install a replacement 3rd UHF tube in it's DTV transmitter. We've been on running on only two tubes for many weeks now, making only about 63% power. This third tube installed will allow us to make full power. If this increase of power is noticeable in some way at your location, we would be very much interested in hearing about it on this thread. I'll post again here when the installation is finished. Thanks all........



I am getting a 70% signal strength in Uniontown OH. I will update after your update!!


----------



## gnalmij

mike888 - I just happened to be looking this afternoon at a thread on the tivo community site that links to this document:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publ...A-05-2649A2.pdf 


This supposedly shows "DTV Tentative Channel Designations for the First Round of DTV Channel Elections". WKYC (3) is missing from the list. It shows WOIO as staying on 10. Most surprising, it shows WJW-8 moving from 31 down to 8.


vhf is not going away in Cleveland.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> mike888 - I just happened to be looking this afternoon at a thread on the tivo community site that links to this document:
> 
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publ...A-05-2649A2.pdf
> 
> 
> This supposedly shows "DTV Tentative Channel Designations for the First Round of DTV Channel Elections". WKYC (3) is missing from the list. It shows WOIO as staying on 10. Most surprising, it shows WJW-8 moving from 31 down to 8.
> 
> 
> vhf is not going away in Cleveland.



WKYC-DT is choosing either channel 17 or 32 in the 2nd round of DTV channel elections.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591927 


While we will have 2 stations on VHF, Channels 8 and 10, there will not be any in the most problematic VHF-lo band, once the DTV transition is complete. Thank goodness WKYC-DT is abandoning channel 2.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I can't believe WOIO wants to hang onto ch 10! Unless CFPL abandons ch 10 (not likely) it's absurd for WOIO to stay on that channel. CFPL used to come in like gangbusters when I lived in Euclid, and it was even stronger the farther northeast you go up the I-90 corridor towards Ashtabula. It was a local station in Conneaut back in the early 60's when I had family up there.


The only reason I see for WOIO to stay on 10 is for CBS to reclaim VHF in Cleveland from FOX. If they want to stay on VHF at the expense of signal coverage it's pure vanity and insanity. Look for Ashtabula county to flip to the Erie DMA over this decision.


As for WKYC, I heard they want to move to ch 17 once WDLI abandons their analog signal in favor of their digital 39. That would put them right next to WEWS frequency wise. WOIO should keep 19 insted, that way the "big 3" networks would be on 15, 17, & 19. A neat package for anyone trying to get the Cleveland stations OTA.


Anyone from Raycom reading this?


----------



## mrblond128




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rocatman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also subscribe to Dish and I am also concerned about Dish carrying the Indians. The big concern is that Fox Sports Ohio has indicated that they don't think they should give a discount to the satellite/cable providers even without the Indians because they have 24 hour programming and I am not sure Dish will pay for both the Indians and Fox Sports Ohio. My take is that I would rather have Dish carry the Indians station part time then keep Fox Sports Ohio. I am not the biggest basketball fan and the number of Cavaliers games on channel 43 and shown on national networks is enough for me. The lack of 24 hour programming for the Indians channel actually is not a problem for Dish because they are already carry games for their MLB package on a part time channel usage basis. It may actually help in terms of Dish bandwidth limitations although I would be great if this new Indians channel is in HD. I believe some if not all of the games on WKYC will be in HD.




Does anyone know where I can find information regarding which providers will carry the Indians this year? I'm new to the HD world and would like to get DirectTV, but carrying the Indians will be a must for whoever I go with.


----------



## Michael P 2341

This discussion brings another issue to mind. When the analog signals are abandoned what will happen to the identy of the stations that will abandon their old channels? i.e. will WKYC still be 3-1 when they move to 17? It appears that WJW is the only station keeping their old channel after the transition is over (well, not exactly, it appears that WVPX 23 will have to flip from analog to digital overnight like the LPTV's are reported to do since their digital assignment (59) is a part of the UHF band that is being auctioned away after the transition).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrblond128* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find information regarding which providers will carry the Indians this year? I'm new to the HD world and would like to get DirectTV, but carrying the Indians will be a must for whoever I go with.



As a Dish subscriber I can tell you honestly - go with direcTV if the Indians are a must. Dish still does not carry the "YES" network for the Yankees (however they do carry MASN, the part-time network for the Washington Nationals). Several years ago we Dish subs lost half of the FSN Indians games for one whole season (we only got 70 out of 140 games) due to a contract price squabble. Dish lost many subs that year.


----------



## hookbill

Based on what Inundated reported about Adelphia still doing what they want it might be a good idea at this point to hit the phones and emails demanding they carry the Indians. Just to be safe.


----------



## EricG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Next Monday or Tuesday (1/23), WJW is hoping to install a replacement 3rd UHF tube in it's DTV transmitter. We've been on running on only two tubes for many weeks now, making only about 63% power. This third tube installed will allow us to make full power. If this increase of power is noticeable in some way at your location, we would be very much interested in hearing about it on this thread. I'll post again here when the installation is finished. Thanks all........



.

I'm looking forward to that. I cannot get a lock on WJW, the signal fluctuates from 0 to 25 or so all the time. I get a lock on the other locals with a strength avg. of about 70 on my HR10-250


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As a Dish subscriber I can tell you honestly - go with direcTV if the Indians are a must. Dish still does not carry the "YES" network for the Yankees (however they do carry MASN, the part-time network for the Washington Nationals). Several years ago we Dish subs lost half of the FSN Indians games for one whole season (we only got 70 out of 140 games) due to a contract price squabble. Dish lost many subs that year.



actually, unless things have changed, only time warner has the indians as of right now, that MAY change in the future but its not a for sure thing!


----------



## gass

Well, I guess its a good thing WJW is improving signal, but here in SW Portage Co, I never had a problem with WJW. WEWS on the other hand....


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gass* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I guess its a good thing WJW is improving signal, but here in SW Portage Co, I never had a problem with WJW. WEWS on the other hand....



WEWS has been back up to full power for about a week or so. If you are still having trouble it might be your antenna. Over all, WEWS has the best frequency for their digital signal. I say that based on the fact that there are no analog ch 15 operating anywhere near the Cleveland market. Just about every other digital channel in town has an analog operating on that channel in a nearby market. Transition or no transition, there is no logical reason for some of the DT channel assignmnets. I have DX'ed analog signals on just about every other channel used for DT in Cleveland today:


ch 2 WJBK Detroit & KDKA Pittsburgh


ch 10 CFPL London, Ontario (and I bet WBNS in Columbus gives WOIO-DT viewers troubles down in the Mansfield/Asland area).


ch 28 I believe there is a Columbus station on 28, I DX'ed once a long time ago.


ch 31 The PAX afilliate in Ann Arbor/Detroit and CITY-TV in Ontario


ch 50 WKBD Detroit


Additionally some nearby markets have their DT's on our analog channels, most notably KDKA-DT on ch 25.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't believe WOIO wants to hang onto ch 10! Unless CFPL abandons ch 10 (not likely) it's absurd for WOIO to stay on that channel. CFPL used to come in like gangbusters when I lived in Euclid, and it was even stronger the farther northeast you go up the I-90 corridor towards Ashtabula. It was a local station in Conneaut back in the early 60's when I had family up there.
> 
> 
> The only reason I see for WOIO to stay on 10 is for CBS to reclaim VHF in Cleveland from FOX. If they want to stay on VHF at the expense of signal coverage it's pure vanity and insanity. Look for Ashtabula county to flip to the Erie DMA over this decision.
> 
> 
> As for WKYC, I heard they want to move to ch 17 once WDLI abandons their analog signal in favor of their digital 39. That would put them right next to WEWS frequency wise. WOIO should keep 19 insted, that way the "big 3" networks would be on 15, 17, & 19. A neat package for anyone trying to get the Cleveland stations OTA.
> 
> 
> Anyone from Raycom reading this?



My guess is that they figure the much lower operating cost on VHF is worth the loss of coverage in the far NE counties.


Altthough they are likely to be able to increase their power above their currenly paltry 3.5kw once WBNS in Columbus abandons CH 10 for 21, they will still need a big null to the north to protect CFPL.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Based on what Inundated reported about Adelphia still doing what they want it might be a good idea at this point to hit the phones and emails demanding they carry the Indians. Just to be safe.



The upshot, according to Mr. Jasso (TWC's spokesman, basically), is that TWC really can't control any decisions Adelphia makes until they take them over. But...well, let me just quote him: "Regarding carriage before the deal closes, you would have to talk to Adelphia and Comcast, but I can't honestly imagine that the two biggest Cleveland area cable systems won't be carrying the Cleveland Indians."


I would assume it'd be relatively trivial for Adelphia to come up with a short term deal to carry the Indians games on channel 15 or something, until the system is controlled by TWC.


The problem, as I told Bill Jasso, is that I haven't heard any noise out of Adelphia about them actually doing so, and I don't trust Adelphia as far as I can throw them.










Hookbill, why don't you call 'em and ask them? Don't you already have a contact down there?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My guess is that they figure the much lower operating cost on VHF is worth the loss of coverage in the far NE counties.



This is the biggest reason WJW wants to stay on 8 and WOIO on 10...the power bill is a LOT lower on VHF, considering the power needed to keep the same coverage area.


And there aren't a lot of choices on high VHF that don't have similar problems for WOIO:


6 - WSYX/Columbus analog

7 - WTRF/Wheeling analog

8 - WJW's current analog and future digital, of course

9 - WTOV/Steubenville analog

10 - The aforementioned CFPL problem

11 - WPXI/Pittsburgh analog

12 - WICU/Erie analog

13 - WTVG/Toledo analog


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is the biggest reason WJW wants to stay on 8 and WOIO on 10...the power bill is a LOT lower on VHF, considering the power needed to keep the same coverage area.
> 
> 
> And there aren't a lot of choices on high VHF that don't have similar problems for WOIO:
> 
> 
> 6 - WSYX/Columbus analog



Just a nitpick - Ch6 is low-VHF











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 7 - WTRF/Wheeling analog
> 
> 8 - WJW's current analog and future digital, of course
> 
> 9 - WTOV/Steubenville analog
> 
> 10 - The aforementioned CFPL problem
> 
> 11 - WPXI/Pittsburgh analog
> 
> 12 - WICU/Erie analog
> 
> 13 - WTVG/Toledo analog



I also believe most, if not all, of these stations will stick with their analog VHF allocations for digital when analog shuts down.


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just a nitpick - Ch6 is low-VHF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also believe most, if not all, of these stations will stick with their analog VHF allocations for digital when analog shuts down.




So what you are saying all this money I have spent for UHF antennas and amps and now they are going to switch back to VHF?


----------



## firemantom26

Quote:

Originally Posted by *flatiron*
Just a nitpick - Ch6 is low-VHF












I also believe most, if not all, of these stations will stick with their analog VHF allocations for digital when analog shuts down.
I thought I saw that they were in there second round of channel elections, but here a PDF File that shows the 1st round of channel elections.

 

1ST round of channel elections..pdf 115.0234375k . file


----------



## firemantom26

1st round of channel elections also you can go here if you have excel. 1ST round channel elections


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what you are saying all this money I have spent for UHF antennas and amps and now they are going to switch back to VHF?



In most areas you will need to be able to receive hi-band VHF in addition to UHF. The majority of hi-VHF analog stations (CH 7-13) with UHF digital assigments will return to their old VHF assignments when analog shuts down (much lower power required to cover the same area than on UHF). Those with lo-VHF analog assigmenets, on the other hand, will almost always stick with their UHF digital assigments, due to all the problems with digital lo-VHF.


IIRC, the Wheeling/Stubenville stations will return to 7 and 9.


Fortunately, many UHF antennas will work acceptably on hi-VHF.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fortunately, many UHF antennas will work acceptably on hi-VHF.



I dunno why I had channel 6 stuck in my head with the hi-VHF channels. Maybe because we have 3 and 5 here.


----------



## Telosian

I'll be happy to send an email to any station or cable system requesting the Indians even though I am not a baseball fan. Where should they be sent? I am not sure what the Adelphia sale will mean for HD here in Cleveland, I am really enjoying the Adelphia HD and hope the HD offerings will grow and not be more limited if/when they are sold. I'm sure this in not a new comment for the forum but the GIGANTIC LOGO on WVIZ DT is even more ugly and annoying than it used to be (I was not sure that was even possible)! I am also stunned that an otherwise classy station like INHD2 is ruining their upscale programming like IMAX films and even Kurasawa for gosh sakes with their irritating logo which never goes away. Don't these people get it? How can they invest and work this hard to send out a beautiful picture and buy meaningful content-driven shows and then plaster a LOGO all over it? Make it small and transparent, or better yet, program it to show up every ten minutes for twelve seconds and then disappear, or best case leave it off entirely. I have sent an email to INHD (ignored of course) and would be happy to lead a email campaign to WVIZ and any others. Does anyone have any ideas how we could do something to be effective at this? Perhaps it does not bug anyone else and I should just stop ranting and change the channel.


----------



## mike888




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what you are saying all this money I have spent for UHF antennas and amps and now they are going to switch back to VHF?




How is the reception of WKYC & WOIO with a UHF-Only Antenna? I have heard a lot of good things about the ChannelMaster 4228 AND it is cheaper than another UHF/VHF antenna. However, if I can't get NBC & CBS, it's not going to work for me. (My antenna had a tree fall on it.)


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike888* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How is the reception of WKYC & WOIO with a UHF-Only Antenna? I have heard a lot of good things about the ChannelMaster 4228 AND it is cheaper than another UHF/VHF antenna. However, if I can't get NBC & CBS, it's not going to work for me. (My antenna had a tree fall on it.)




The CM 4228 will receive channel 10 (WOIO-DT) OK but not channel 2 (WKYC-DT).


----------



## clevemkt

This discussion brings another issue to mind. When the analog signals are abandoned what will happen to the identy of the stations that will abandon their old channels? i.e. will WKYC still be 3-1 when they move to 17?


I believe the FCC stipulates that the stations identify with their "old" channel number even though they are transmitting on another channel. After all the years of promoting their NTSC channel/identity, it would be a shame to start over... Everyone but WEAO seem to be doing that... they are saying 50??? Their digital in Youngstown will be 45 (moving from 46) and staying on 50 in Akron... but should be 49-1, 49-2...etc...?


----------



## Michael P 2341

Years from now some poor newbie will try in vain to tune in WKYC if all they know is "3.1". The identy of stations in the future will have to change from a "channel centric" to a call letter and/or network centric identity.


Reports say that WOIO wants to stay on 10 after the transition is over. If all other analog stations abandon 10 (i.e. WBNS in Columbus and CFPL in London Ontario) no problem. However Canada is years behind the U.S. in digital OTA, so I believe CFPL is staying put. I also believe WBNS will want to stay on 10.


The Canadians are playing hardball with other channels that arn't even on the air yet (which is why WBNX has yet to sign on ch 30). Bottom line WOIO will have a hard time if they try to hang onto 10. Just ask anyone with an OTA digital receiver along the I-90 East corridor in Lake & Ashtabula counties.


BTW: clevemkt, please learn how to use the quote feature!


> Quote:
> I believe the FCC stipulates that the stations identify with their "old" channel number even though they are transmitting on another channel. After all the years of promoting their NTSC channel/identity, it would be a shame to start over... Everyone but WEAO seem to be doing that... they are saying 50??? Their digital in Youngstown will be 45 (moving from 46) and staying on 50 in Akron... but should be 49-1, 49-2...etc...



Thanks.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike888* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How is the reception of WKYC & WOIO with a UHF-Only Antenna? I have heard a lot of good things about the ChannelMaster 4228 AND it is cheaper than another UHF/VHF antenna. However, if I can't get NBC & CBS, it's not going to work for me. (My antenna had a tree fall on it.)



I have a Silver Sensor (indoor/UHF only). WKYC is non existant on it, I can see the tower from my back window! WOIO does cone in, however it works best at a 90 degree angle from the WOIO tower (WOIO's tower is virtually next door to WKYC's)


If I'm having problems with VHF on a UHF only antenna at my virtual ground zero location than I'm willing to bet those farther away will not have much luck getting VHF off a UHF only antenna. My reception of WKYC came off the coax cable the Silver Sensor was attached to, as the station would come and go based on how the cable was laying. I have since added an old set of rabbit ears and a UHF/VHF combiner. I use the Silver Sensor to get WEAO-DT & WDLI-DT and WVPX-TV, I have an A/B switch between the Silver Sensor and the UHF/VHF combiner with rabbit ears on the VHF input and a UHF loop antenna on the UHF side of the combiner. This gets me all the Cleveland UHF & VHF stations with 100+ signal strength (125 on WOIO).


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Reports say that WOIO wants to stay on 10 after the transition is over. If all other analog stations abandon 10 (i.e. WBNS in Columbus and CFPL in London Ontario) no problem. However Canada is years behind the U.S. in digital OTA, so I believe CFPL is staying put. I also believe WBNS will want to stay on 10.
> 
> 
> The Canadians are playing hardball with other channels that arn't even on the air yet (which is why WBNX has yet to sign on ch 30). Bottom line WOIO will have a hard time if they try to hang onto 10. Just ask anyone with an OTA digital receiver along the I-90 East corridor in Lake & Ashtabula counties.



WBNS selected 10 in the first round channel election, but it was rejected likely because WOIO had selected 10, and digital stations have priority when there is a conflict. Thus, WBNS will have to choose Ch 21 for digital.


FCC Conflict Decision Form: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=71217 


OTOH, as you point out CFPL analog will likely be on CH 10 for years to come, so WOIO-DT on Ch10 will still be toast out to the northeast.


----------



## Michael P 2341

That stinks! A station that spent decades on a channel (WBNS 10) has to abandon the channel because a newcomer (WOIO 19) pulld some strings to get a digital assignment on their VHF channel. You would think that senority would also come into play. WOIO has ony been on the air since the 80's, WBNS however probably was on ch 10 since the 50's.


I bet this means that WVIZ has to stay on 26 because KDKA will want to stay on 25 (KDKA's analog channel is 2 - we all know what a problem that channel has been for WKYC-DT).


----------



## Michael P 2341

Another issue, if WBNX is stuck on 21 then WFMJ is stuck on 20. This is a domino-effect!


At least the stations whose "legacy" channel was UHF will stay in the same range (21 to 20) however Columbus gets the short end of the stick (10 to 21) and WOIO gets away with putting CBS back on VHF. Shoot, if they want a VHF make 'em take 5 when WEWS abandons 5 for 15


----------



## hookbill

You know all these discussions about OTA and antennas and what channel who is on just makes me that much happier I never bought OTA equipment.


Notice I didn't say I'm that much happier with Adelphia.







But it does seem like it's much less headache.


Of course Adelphia still doesn't have UPN on HD, so I am missing out on that one.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another issue, if WBNX is stuck on 21 then WFMJ is stuck on 20. This is a domino-effect!



I assume you mean WBNS as above. WBNX has its own set of problems.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course Adelphia still doesn't have UPN on HD, so I am missing out on that one.



Yeah, though that'll probably come whenever TWC takes over Adelphia (and rejiggers the lineups). Whenever that is.


I gotta agree with you, though...Adelphia's been relatively trouble-free lately. I have brought my USB HDTV tuner downstairs to my Dell PC, and it looks great on this LCD FP monitor. The latest Fusion software grabs, and keeps, all the QAM channels from Adelphia. It is even picking up the SD digital versions of 3/5/8/19/43 now!


One oddity I forgot to note - not only does TWC carry WUAB in HD, but it also carries "The Tube", that awful WUAB-DT music subchannel. Since TWC also carries WKYC's Weather Plus, maybe that was a part of the deal.


----------



## wd8kct

WJW-DT was looking pretty good just after midnight...

changed from a 60/16dB SNR to 74/23dB SNR...

hope it holds!

inside 4 bowtie array w/preamp...

Accurian STB...


Ed...

North Canton



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If this increase of power is noticeable in some way at your location, we would be very much interested in hearing about it on this thread. I'll post again here when the installation is finished. Thanks all........


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another issue, if WBNX is stuck on 21 then WFMJ is stuck on 20. This is a domino-effect!
> 
> 
> At least the stations whose "legacy" channel was UHF will stay in the same range (21 to 20) however Columbus gets the short end of the stick (10 to 21) and WOIO gets away with putting CBS back on VHF.



WFMJ is going with 20 anyway, and WVIZ with 26. I believe that just about all stations in the area where both the analog and digital are UHF, stations are sticking with the digital allocation to avoid the cost of setting up a digital signal on channel X during the transition, and then having to set up another digital signal on channel Y (i.e., the old analog channel) when analog shuts down. Exceptions to this are when the digital allocation is "out-of-core", i.e., above Ch 51, such as WVPX.


I agree that it is screwy that the digital stations have priority over the analogs, leading to the bizarre WBNS/WOIO situation. It makes more sense for it to be the other way around.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Shoot, if they want a VHF make 'em take 5 when WEWS abandons 5 for 15



I doubt that even the wonderful company that owns 19 would pick a low-VHF, but you never know. At least the power bill would probably be even cheaper than on Ch10.


----------



## flatiron

I guess this solves the problem of WBNX not being able to broadcast HD
















http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess this solves the problem of WBNX not being able to broadcast HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes



Interesting news. Now the question is what ota channel will CW be on. Let's hope they don't take over channel 2. ^_^


----------



## Phoenix2088

As much as I despise WUAB (WUAB/WOIO in general), I hope they affiliate with "The CW" instead of WBNX getting it. I doubt WBNX will be going in HD for the 06-07 season.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting news. Now the question is what ota channel will CW be on. Let's hope they don't take over channel 2. ^_^



I would hope that CW would affiliate with WUAB, because who knows when WBNX will be broadcasting digitally & passing HD.


----------



## hookbill

Yeah, I have to lean with digital WUAB. I don't care much for that company either.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As much as I despise WUAB (WUAB/WOIO in general), I hope they affiliate with "The CW" instead of WBNX getting it. I doubt WBNX will be going in HD for the 06-07 season.



It's possilbe that WBNX won't be on in digital until analog shutdown, when they can get another channel besides 30. There has been no FCC activity that I can see in 2 years concerning WBNX's digital application on CH30.


----------



## Phoenix2088

Maybe we should all send an e-mail to WBNX and plead for them not to try and get the affiliation with CW and just let WUAB get it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe we should all send an e-mail to WBNX and plead for them not to try and get the affiliation with CW and just let WUAB get it.



That really won't do anything. If they want to get it, they will try.


The biggest factor might be the fact that WBNX is a one-owner station (Rev. Angley) and WOIO/WUAB are owned by mid-sized group Raycom. Raycom has a few other UPN affiliates, and even one WB affiliate, in other markets.


----------



## WJW Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Next Monday or Tuesday (1/23), WJW is hoping to install a replacement 3rd UHF tube in it's DTV transmitter. We've been on running on only two tubes for many weeks now, making only about 63% power. This third tube installed will allow us to make full power. If this increase of power is noticeable in some way at your location, we would be very much interested in hearing about it on this thread. I'll post again here when the installation is finished. Thanks all........



To all - on Tuesday 1/24 at 3pm, WJW-DT was brought back up to full power. Again, comments about noticable effects at your location will be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## EricG

Hi there WJW Engineer-

I am still getting the exact same signal as before the 3rd tube was on. Fluctuations from 0 to 20.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to that. I cannot get a lock on WJW, the signal fluctuates from 0 to 25 or so all the time. I get a lock on the other locals with a strength avg. of about 70 on my HR10-250.


----------



## Monolithic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To all - on Tuesday 1/24 at 3pm, WJW-DT was brought back up to full power. Again, comments about noticable effects at your location will be appreciated. Thanks.


*Location* - Avon
*Antenna* - Terk TV5 Indoor Horizontal Antenna
*Signal* - 80's to 85's with persistent signal dropouts every 20 to 30 seconds (very annoying)


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That really won't do anything. If they want to get it, they will try.
> 
> 
> The biggest factor might be the fact that WBNX is a one-owner station (Rev. Angley) and WOIO/WUAB are owned by mid-sized group Raycom. Raycom has a few other UPN affiliates, and even one WB affiliate, in other markets.



Heh, I know it was a joke. Looks like WBNX will be loosing out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That really won't do anything. If they want to get it, they will try.
> 
> 
> The biggest factor might be the fact that WBNX is a one-owner station (Rev. Angley) and WOIO/WUAB are owned by mid-sized group Raycom. Raycom has a few other UPN affiliates, and even one WB affiliate, in other markets.



So are you suggesting that Raycom will get it? Or are you saying WBNX has a better chance because it's small?


----------



## Phoenix2088

I think he's suggesting that Raycom (WUAB) will get the affiliation. They will have more leverage over WBNX's owner because they (Raycom) already have a CBS affiliate (WOIO) in the Cleveland market and I would assume more money. Plus they already are broadcasting digitally and in HD.


----------



## Inundated

Yes, though there are some that think WBNX will make a play for it, the group ownership by Raycom (6 UPN affiliates, 1 WB, plus a bunch of CBS affils) would seem to almost guarantee it for WUAB.


----------



## JJkizak

WJW Engineer:

Signal is rock steady at about 3/4 on the scale. No dropouts. I do notice on some of your remote transmissions (mobile) that there are sometimes about 10 ghost images starting from left to right on the principles face but ending from half the face to the right. Sure doesn't look like High Def to me when you switch to remote.


JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WJW Engineer:
> 
> Signal is rock steady at about 3/4 on the scale. No dropouts. I do notice on some of your remote transmissions (mobile) that there are sometimes about 10 ghost images starting from left to right on the principles face but ending from half the face to the right. Sure doesn't look like High Def to me when you switch to remote.



It isn't.










The field live shots on FOX 8 News are done in SD, using 16:9 framing. (Taped stuff is still 4:3 SD.) Only stuff originating live from the FOX 8 studio on South Marginal Road is in 16:9 HD.


Somewhere a few weeks ago on this thread, there's a link posted to an interview with WJW's engineering folks...in which they indicate that HD will be added to other parts of the local production (live shots, SkyFOX, commercial production) at some point in the future.


----------



## rlockshin

Just spoke with WEWS engineering. 5.1 sound racks and satellites are there, but ABC has not given them an install date. This means that DD 5.1 will not be available in time for the super bowl. They hope to have it installed in the next month or so.

Does anyone have any clout with ABC network?

That will be the only way we will have OTA 5.1 in time


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with WEWS engineering. 5.1 sound racks and satellites are there, but ABC has not given them an install date. This means that DD 5.1 will not be available in time for the super bowl. They hope to have it installed in the next month or so.
> 
> Does anyone have any clout with ABC network?
> 
> That will be the only way we will have OTA 5.1 in time



I would rather have the "fake" surround than take a chance screwing up the SB on some newbie equipment turned on the day before the game...


----------



## clevemkt

Anybody know if the Daytona 500 will be in HD? Who's airing it?


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with WEWS engineering. 5.1 sound racks and satellites are there, but ABC has not given them an install date. This means that DD 5.1 will not be available in time for the super bowl. They hope to have it installed in the next month or so.
> 
> Does anyone have any clout with ABC network?
> 
> That will be the only way we will have OTA 5.1 in time



I'll settle for a solid signal on WEWS that doesn't drop out on a regular basis for SB-XL. Boston Legal was unwatchable last night, but the other stations (3, 8, 19, 43, 61) were rock solid.


A few pages ago, someone mentioned that the transmitter was running on low power, but I never saw a post saying that the issue was fixed. Any word on when the signal will be back to full strength, or are they waiting to fix it along with the DD 5.1 install?


----------



## Bullsquid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To all - on Tuesday 1/24 at 3pm, WJW-DT was brought back up to full power. Again, comments about noticable effects at your location will be appreciated. Thanks.



I am still geting the same signal strength as before the upgrade. About 70%. I am getting many drop outs for some reason now.


----------



## Inundated

In the "continuing WEWS-DT problems, non-signal division" tonight - I managed to get two screenshots of an ongoing problem, the poor upconverting of ABC's SD material.


After the 10 PM show went to SD near the end, to allow the local news promo for 11, I snapped this:











Notice how blurry the ABC show's text is, under Ted Henry.


After ABC was done, I captured this:











Notice...no more blurry text. It's as clear as SD can be, and it's local.


Many of us noticed this problem during the upconverts of SD college football games in the fall. It apparently continues to go unnoticed by WEWS. Of course, they may have larger digital problems (signal) right now.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody know if the Daytona 500 will be in HD? Who's airing it?



NBC has the Daytona 500 and NBC aired all/majority of their coverage in HD last year. I would imagine the biggest event in auto racing would be covered in HD. Fox has a deal with NASCAR that covers the 2007 through 2014 Daytona 500.


----------



## JJkizak

I noticed yesterday on 19 that started out in HD, applied a weather warning crawl which took the program out of HD into SD, then they forgot to flip the switch and left it in SD for awhile then went back to HD after a commercial break. This really ticks me off. Do they have to flip a switch or what?


JJK


----------



## rpf717

I have a few questions:


1) If I have adelphia cable (basic) and have a HDTV with Digital tuner built in/or a HTPC with a QAM digital tuner ( like the M, will I be able to view HD from the standard networks (eg CBS, NBC, Fox etc). OR, are these HD channels encrypted, requiring the use of THEIR cable box to decode them?


2) How is the OTA coverage in cleveland? If I go to Radioshack and buy a small OTA antenna and place it near a window will I be able to pick up the major Networks? ( I'm located in Shaker Heights), but is there a good rule of thumb for all of Cleveland?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rpf717* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I have adelphia cable (basic) and have a HDTV with Digital tuner built in/or a HTPC with a QAM digital tuner ( like the M, will I be able to view HD from the standard networks (eg CBS, NBC, Fox etc). OR, are these HD channels encrypted, requiring the use of THEIR cable box to decode them?



If you have a QAM tuner then you _should_ be able to tune in your local digital stations over your cable IF they are "in the clear" and your cable company carries the channel.


Check out this discussion reguarding FCC regulations on digital local broadcasts THREAD 


If you cannot tune in the local digital stations that are available from your provider, call them and complain. Keep in mind, generally, the first level of support you reach will have no idea what your talking about. Be persistent and ask for a higher level of support.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed yesterday on 19 that started out in HD, applied a weather warning crawl which took the program out of HD into SD, then they forgot to flip the switch and left it in SD for awhile then went back to HD after a commercial break. This really ticks me off. Do they have to flip a switch or what?
> 
> 
> JJK



Yes, there is a switch between the local SD upconvert and the network HD feed that they must flip on all local breaks (so that you see the local commercials on the digital signal instead of whatever the network is sending out on the HD feed), and since they don't have the necessary equipment to insert weather graphics over the HD feed, they must drop back to the SD upconvert to do this. They should have switched back to HD after the crawl was done, but someone must have messed up.


WOIO is the worst offender locally - often a segment of an HD program following a local break is in SD, and they don't catch it until the next local break. WEWS was guilty of this as well in the past, but they have been pretty good this season. WKYC rarely messes up, unless there is an NBC HD network problem.


WJW, OTOH, uses the FOX splicer system, where the switching is controllled by the network, so this problem never happens - at least not that I have ever seen.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would rather have the "fake" surround than take a chance screwing up the SB on some newbie equipment turned on the day before the game...



Ditto. When WKYC first got their 5.1 equipment, NBC shows there would frequently air with sound effects and music, but no dialogue (no center channel?)


This is apparently another switch that must be flipped in addition to the HD/SD switch, and we all know how often certain local stations mess that up.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rpf717* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2) How is the OTA coverage in cleveland? If I go to Radioshack and buy a small OTA antenna and place it near a window will I be able to pick up the major Networks? ( I'm located in Shaker Heights), but is there a good rule of thumb for all of Cleveland?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I can't answer your cable questions, but I suspect that you should be able to get all the Cleveland digital stations except WKYC/NBC-3 OTA with an indoor antenna from Shaker Heights. All of the transmitters are only a few miles to your SW, in Parma


WKYC, unfortunately, is on low-VHF channel 2, which will require a large, probably outdoor antenna.


WOIO/19-CBS is also on VHF, but on Channel 10, so small rabbit ears should work. All the rest (WEWS/ABC, WJW/Fox, WUAB/UPN) are UHF and should be very easy to pick up. WVIZ/PBS is temporarily low power/low transmitter height and is probably a tough catch from Shaker Heights. It hopefully will be full power before too long.


If you are on high ground, you might have a shot at WEAO/50-PBS from Akron (although they are currently not carrying PBS-HD, but should be at some point in the future).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll settle for a solid signal on WEWS that doesn't drop out on a regular basis for SB-XL. Boston Legal was unwatchable last night, but the other stations (3, 8, 19, 43, 61) were rock solid.



I thought I would just let you know. I watched Boston Legal recorded on my DVR player via Adelphia. It was darn near perfect. In the last 20 seconds someone flipped the switch to SD. Other then that, no picture problems or sound gliches.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you have a QAM tuner then you _should_ be able to tune in your local digital stations over your cable IF they are "in the clear" and your cable company carries the channel.



Just checking in here:


I have Adelphia and my USB HDTV tuner that does QAM, DOES pick up all of Adelphia's local HD stations (WKYC/WEWS/WJW/WOIO/WVIZ) with no problem. They're "in the clear".


It also, in recent weeks, has picked up the SD digital versions of those stations...along with WUAB. These are the digital OTA SD versions that get moved down to 3/4/5/6/8 on digital cable boxes to replace the analog versions.


No problem on any of 'em.


Of course, you aren't getting ESPNHD, etc. this way, but the OTA digital/HD stations are clear on Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought I would just let you know. I watched Boston Legal recorded on my DVR player via Adelphia. It was darn near perfect. In the last 20 seconds someone flipped the switch to SD. Other then that, no picture problems or sound gliches.



That was the same show that was running before the screen shots I put up earlier in this thread. It was in HD all the way, until that last segment...which they have to switch so WEWS can throw in the pictured promo for the 11 PM news.


As far as the WOIO storm graphics are concerned...they don't have HD-capable graphics, so they have to do the switch (or not display the graphics on the digital feed). Only WJW can do it in HD locally.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just checking in here:
> 
> 
> I have Adelphia and my USB HDTV tuner that does QAM, DOES pick up all of Adelphia's local HD stations (WKYC/WEWS/WJW/WOIO/WVIZ) with no problem. They're "in the clear".



Have you, or anyone with a QAM tuner noticed any movement at all by Adelphia in replacing all the remaining analog stations to digital? They've had those those test channels up for months now. I was hoping we would see something by start of the year, but here it is January 27 and nothing has happened.


----------



## jtscherne

While going through the program guide, I spotted some new channels in the 340s. In particular, channel 349 is labelled HSOD, but has no information yet. I have no other information, but I suspect that it might be "Howard Stern On Demand". I know that some of his newer things are being taped in HD....


----------



## lefkas

I live in North Canton and can get HDTV on channels 5-1, 8-1, the 17s, the 43s, 47-1 and the 50s on just an amplified rabbit ears and a Sylvania HD tuner. I have never been able to get 3-1 (WKYC-DT)or 19-1(WOIO-DT). If anyone out there living in North Canton or Green has any suggestions (i.e. type of rooftop antenna to get), I would appreciate hearing them. Also, is anyone living in North Canton or Green able to pick up the digital Youngstown stations ?


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Canton and can get HDTV on channels 5-1, 8-1, the 17s, the 43s, 47-1 and the 50s on just an amplified rabbit ears and a Sylvania HD tuner. I have never been able to get 3-1 (WKYC-DT)or 19-1(WOIO-DT). If anyone out there living in North Canton or Green has any suggestions (i.e. type of rooftop antenna to get), I would appreciate hearing them. Also, is anyone living in North Canton or Green able to pick up the digital Youngstown stations ?



I lived in Jackson Twp. With a CM4228 in the attic, I was able to get all of the channels you mentioned, including the Youngstown stations, except WkYC. I would have to repoint the antenna to receive the Youngstown stations.


WOIO-DT is on channel 10, which the CM4228 does pick up well, even though it is a UHF antenna.


----------



## rlockshin

Just spoke with Engineering at CBS channel 19 WOIO; dolby digital 5.1 sound is not even on the horizon for them. Reason is owner,Raycom, is too cheap to spend the $4-5000 on necessary equipment. He suggested that we FLOOD the station with complaints. Smaller markets have this dynamic sound and Cleveland does not. Call 216.771.1943 and ask for programming. You can also ask for the general manager.

Who is with me? Maybe we can get them to do something for us consumers.

Thanks


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with Engineering at CBS channel 19 WOIO; dolby digital 5.1 sound is not even on the horizon for them. Reason is owner,Raycom, is too cheap to spend the $4-5000 on necessary equipment. He suggested that we FLOOD the station with complaints. Smaller markets have this dynamic sound and Cleveland does not. Call 216.771.1943 and ask for programming. You can also ask for the general manager.
> 
> Who is with me? Maybe we can get them to do something for us consumers.
> 
> Thanks



I just went to the Channel 19 web site, got their GM's e-mail address and sent him a message at the following:
[email protected] 


Told him CBS had the best HD programming, and I appreciated their efforts; but they could improve by adding DD (explained smaller markets have it and soon they will be the only major in Cleveland without). Also mentioned that they fairly frequently fail to start with HD at the beginning of the show.


----------



## rlockshin

Thanks. Thats a start. Email address is appreciated. Lets all email or call. Power of the people!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just spoke with Engineering at CBS channel 19 WOIO; dolby digital 5.1 sound is not even on the horizon for them. Reason is owner,Raycom, is too cheap to spend the $4-5000 on necessary equipment. He suggested that we FLOOD the station with complaints. Smaller markets have this dynamic sound and Cleveland does not. Call 216.771.1943 and ask for programming. You can also ask for the general manager.
> 
> Who is with me? Maybe we can get them to do something for us consumers.
> 
> Thanks



I'm totally on your side. But.....I have sent many unanswered emails stating just as you say how much I love CBS and how they really need Dolby 5.1.


I wonder with Raycom being so tight with their wallets if their the one we should put the pressure on. Maybe a better idea would be go to the network.


If CBS gets flooded with complaints they may very well put some muscle on Raycom. They could tell Raycom that if they don't offer the Dolby 5.1 per the peoples request they could change affiliates.


Just a thought. Maybe not a great one. I just don't see Raycom as someone who "responds to the will" of the people.


----------



## rlockshin

You are correct about Raycom. The engineer told me that if CBS wants Raycom to have DD 5.1, CBS should supply it to Raycom for FREE


----------



## ZManCartFan

Wait, the DD equipment is only $4k to $5k?


Maybe we could hold a bake sale or car wash or something....










Them're some cheap-a** bastages.


----------



## Inundated

It could be worse...19/43 could be owned by Sinclair or (gulp) NexStar.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you, or anyone with a QAM tuner noticed any movement at all by Adelphia in replacing all the remaining analog stations to digital? They've had those those test channels up for months now. I was hoping we would see something by start of the year, but here it is January 27 and nothing has happened.



Nope, the only SD DT channels showing up on QAM are the current ones - the digital SD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43. There are some other SD DT channels now - the "Ohio Channel" feed off of WVIZ-DT, which is being carried by Adelphia in the digital tier, for example. But there are no more digital SD replacement channels yet.


(I was actually surprised to see the existing ones, actually! I didn't know they showed up "in the clear".)


----------



## DDP312

I recently purchased a new TV with a built in HD tuner and started off with an indoor antenna but it wasn't picking up all of the locals. I then moved up to a Terk HDTV-S outdoor, which according to Antennaweb should have worked fine. However, I could never get NBC and would sometimes have trouble staying locked on CBS--I live in North Ridgeville. Anyway, I found this site and antennaweb to be very helpful so I wanted to post my results. I have Comcast basic cable throughout my home since I use them for my highspeed internet and it's the same price if you throw in basic. Anyway, not pleased with not being able to pick up NBC I decided to hook up my basic cable directly to the TV . I am able to receive NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox in HD. The TV does have a QAM tuner if that helps anyone. Hopefully, this will help someone out there who is new to HD. I wish I would have tried the cable first rather than spending the $150.00+ for the antenna/hardware--not to mention the time I spent on my roof aiming the thing. Hope this can help someone out there.....


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Picture is terrible for the Cavs game on ABC this afternoon. I know its not HD obviously, but the picture still suffers from the problem WEWS had during the college football season. Theres ghosting lines on each side of everything. WEWS should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Picture is terrible for the Cavs game on ABC this afternoon. I know its not HD obviously, but the picture still suffers from the problem WEWS had during the college football season. Theres ghosting lines on each side of everything. WEWS should be ashamed of themselves.



I have sent a long, detailed E-Mail to WEWS' engineering department with a lot of information about this. I'm not sure if it'll get to them, as I guessed at an address







But if I don't hear back, I'll call. This is getting ridiculous.


The problem is clearly on WEWS' end. How do I know? When ABC as a network lost the HD feed from the second game, they had to revert to SD until they fixed it...and the SD feed directly from the network looked flawless.


Somewhere, WEWS' local upconversion is causing it. Maybe there's something inherent in their analog signal that gets mangled, because it looked nearly as bad even on Adelphia 5 (Adelphia's digital version of WEWS' analog feed).


If I do not hear back, I will call. This has to stop. It appears if WEWS didn't just simply upconvert ABC SD programming again, it would go away.


----------



## Inundated

I'm not sure if they take it live or record it, but tonight's ABC World News Tonight showed none of the picture problems described above.


----------



## snagy

in geauga county, i kept losing the Cavs feed. was at 90% then down to zero, then back up again. it is like the transmitter just quits transmitting or something. even when picture was there it was horrible. (Directv signal meter)


----------



## JJkizak

The Cav's game quality was pretty bad SD wise but I watched it anyway. I think their analog is better than the SD.

JJK


----------



## snagy

Did anybody get the golf on WOIO 19 to fill their screen on channel 19-1 HD ??


----------



## hookbill

Well, I knew it had to end sooner or later. I took my DVR back for replacement because it was missing complete recording of shows (SA 8300). Got a replacement, no problem.


Hooked it up and did a check on channel reception. I noticed that I wasn't receiving many of the music channels which I don't listen to anyway. Then I started checking out other channels.


It seems I'm not getting HBO E but I get HBO HD. I'm also not receiving a couple of other HBO stations I use to get. It gets weird. ESPN Classic is not coming in. And some other digital channel.


Anyway I called them and someones coming out on Friday evening but I'm thinking that it's a head end problem because ESPN Classic came in for a few seconds and went away.


How about some of you other Adelphia guys? Can you take a look and see if your OK? Inundated, I know everthing is working fine for you.


----------



## JJkizak

The golf on channel 19 was in SD only as far as OTA goes.


JJK


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How about some of you other Adelphia guys? Can you take a look and see if your OK? Inundated, I know everthing is working fine for you.



I'm having a similar problem.. I'm missing HBO 201-204 and Cinemax 213-215. The other HBO & Cinemax channels work fine (including HBO-HD and On Demand). I had hoped it would just "fix itself" like when the On Demand does when it goes on the fritz, but so far no luck. Please let me know if you have any luck hookbill.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm having a similar problem.. I'm missing HBO 201-204 and Cinemax 213-215. The other HBO & Cinemax channels work fine (including HBO-HD and On Demand). I had hoped it would just "fix itself" like when the On Demand does when it goes on the fritz, but so far no luck. Please let me know if you have any luck hookbill.



Call it into them. Looks like there is no appointments until Friday and if they start getting the calls they will fix it. It's probably in the head end. I'm missing the same HBO you are. I don't get Cinemax.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How about some of you other Adelphia guys? Can you take a look and see if your OK? Inundated, I know everthing is working fine for you.



How'd you guess?










No problems here. I'm getting all the 200 series SD digital HBOs. No problem with HBO HD on 750. All the music channels are there, and ESPN Classic and the other digital ESPNs (ESPNU, ESPNEWS) are fine.


I have the perfect Adelphia system.










Seriously, we talk about this when there are problems on occasion, but you and I may be on different headends. I can't remember if you have the regular Adelphia Cleveland lineup (with WVIZ on 2, for example) or the Western Reserve lineup (MTV on 2). Even so, you may be fed out of there anyway.


I'm curious where ClevelandJax is, as far as on the Adelphia system. I know where you are. For his reference, I'm on the Copley/Bath/Summit County end of things for Adelphia.


----------



## Telosian

No problems for me either, I'm in Gates Mills


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No problems for me either, I'm in Gates Mills



Your not too far from me, I'm in Bainbridge. Well, we will see. I sent an email to my contact at Adelphia (If she's still there, I haven't talked to her in over a year) and I've got an appointment for Friday evening. Problems continued this morning.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm curious where ClevelandJax is, as far as on the Adelphia system. I know where you are. For his reference, I'm on the Copley/Bath/Summit County end of things for Adelphia.



I'm in downtown Cleveland, with WZIV on channel 2. I should mention that I'm also missing the music channels as well as ESPNN and ESPNC (channels 123 and 124 respectively). Oddly I'm getting On Demand channels I shouldn't be (Showtime and Starz), how about you hookbill?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in downtown Cleveland, with WZIV on channel 2. I should mention that I'm also missing the music channels as well as ESPNN and ESPNC (channels 123 and 124 respectively). Oddly I'm getting On Demand channels I shouldn't be (Showtime and Starz), how about you hookbill?



Yeah, I just checked I'm getting Showtime and Starz On Demand too.


I got an email back from my contact at Adelphia. She says the head end says there is nothing wrong on their end.










Let's see. Your in downtown Cleveland and I'm in Bainbridge. And we're both having the same problems? But it's something that a tech needs to look at? Pretty coincidental if you ask me.


Also I notice the Soap channel was another one missing. Something I would have never noticed. And some cartoon channel right after that too.


----------



## JoeySR

I am in Burton and not having any problems, getting all the channels.


JoeySR


----------



## JoeySR

NBC is going to broadcast allot of Winter Olympic coverage in HD on Universal HD,

any thoughts if Adelphia will offer the channel in time for the Olympics.


JoeySR


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let's see. Your in downtown Cleveland and I'm in Bainbridge. And we're both having the same problems? But it's something that a tech needs to look at? Pretty coincidental if you ask me.



It's odd that there seems to be no geographic pinpoint to where this problem is happening, and where it's not. Users here in Gates Mills, Burton and myself in suburban Akron with no problems, and you and the guy in downtown Cleveland with problems.


Equipment, maybe? You have an 8300HD, I know...how about the others?


One thing I did notice...I am also getting the Showtime and Starz OnDemand channels. I thought they just opened them up to everyone with the proviso of charging non-subscribers to those networks. I haven't gone through trying to pull up any shows yet, though.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NBC is going to broadcast allot of Winter Olympic coverage in HD on Universal HD,
> 
> any thoughts if Adelphia will offer the channel in time for the Olympics.



It obviously won't be in time for the Olympics, but Time Warner is reportedly getting Universal HD on their systems.


But since TWC is not supposed to (legally) have any influence in how Adelphia runs its system until the merger is complete, that means nothing.


----------



## Inundated

UPDATE: The Federal Trade Commission has approved the $12.7 billion dollar Adelphia split to Time Warner and Comcast, with "no conditions", says Broadcasting & Cable magazine.


The deal must still be approved by the Federal Communications Commission, which is "expected", according to B&C.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...&referral=SUPP


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's odd that there seems to be no geographic pinpoint to where this problem is happening, and where it's not. Users here in Gates Mills, Burton and myself in suburban Akron with no problems, and you and the guy in downtown Cleveland with problems.
> 
> 
> Equipment, maybe? You have an 8300HD, I know...how about the others?
> 
> 
> One thing I did notice...I am also getting the Showtime and Starz OnDemand channels. I thought they just opened them up to everyone with the proviso of charging non-subscribers to those networks. I haven't gone through trying to pull up any shows yet, though.




It appears from what my source says at Adelphia that it is an equipment problem with the 8300. Apparently they need to boost the signal. ClevelandJax and I have been pm back and forth and he has an appointment on Thursday, I've got one on Friday evening.


My contact at Adelphia is looking into the On Demand thing. Since your getting it also I assume they are having a promo but just forgot to tell us. I did load one of the shows, there was no mention of any charge when I did it.


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It obviously won't be in time for the Olympics, but Time Warner is reportedly getting Universal HD on their systems.



Just to check out your comment I decided to e-mail TWC NEO this morning.

*Here is my question to them:*

"NBC is going to broadcast a lot of Winter Olympic coverage in HD on Universal HD.


Will TWC NEO carry this HD channel?"

*Here is TWC's response:*

"Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.


WKYC/NBC 3 is on cable position 521 in High Definition.


The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.


Sincerely,


Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"



So no go for the Olympics


----------



## SteveC

They did add UHD last summer for the two week duration of the U.S. Open Tennis tournament. All of the coverage during the week was on UHD while CBS had much of the coverage on the weekend. They removed it from the guide as soon as the tournament was over. We can hope they will do something similar for the Olympics. I would guess that the potential audience would be much larger for the Olympics compared to a tennis tournament. Hopefully they will add it permanently.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It appears from what my source says at Adelphia that it is an equipment problem with the 8300. Apparently they need to boost the signal. ClevelandJax and I have been pm back and forth and he has an appointment on Thursday, I've got one on Friday evening.



Hmm, I wonder why the 8300 needs a "boosted signal" and the 8000, which I still have, is fine...? And where do they "boost the signal", at your end? I'd been thinking of getting an 8300, particularly because it supposedly has a better PQ on the SD channels...


Oh, for what it's worth, I can no longer get Showtime OnDemand or STARZ OnDemand.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So no go for the Olympics



What I meant above is that TWC, as a company nationwide, had signed a carriage agreement to pick up Universal HD. The agreement is quoted here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=596936 



> Quote:
> *NBC Universal Cable and Time Warner Cable Reach Distribution Agreement; Agreement Includes Rights to Universal HD and VOD Content; NBC Programming to Be ''Start Over'' Enabled
> 
> October 25, 2005*
> 
> 
> ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, N.J. & STAMFORD, Conn.- NBC Universal Cable (NBCU) and Time Warner Cable, today announced a renewal for USA Network, and a carriage agreement for Universal HD, mun2, Telemundo Puerto Rico and VOD (video on demand).



It'll obviously take some time to get added to all the various TWC systems across the country. Maybe it'll even show up locally for the Olympics, but the customer service folks aren't aware of it yet?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmm, I wonder why the 8300 needs a "boosted signal" and the 8000, which I still have, is fine...? And where do they "boost the signal", at your end? I'd been thinking of getting an 8300, particularly because it supposedly has a better PQ on the SD channels...
> 
> 
> Oh, for what it's worth, I can no longer get Showtime OnDemand or STARZ OnDemand.



If you go to the info screen you can see "tuner 1" on page 1. It needs to be around -5db. If it's above -8 then you have a loss of signal. Good enough for many digital channels but not all apparently.


The guy just left. He actually rewired my cable from downstairs going outside after running a cable from the basement up to the tv. That appeared to work but when he plugged it all in there was still a "-12" signal. He did a lot of work and was here for 2 hours checking everything trying to make sure that all my sets were getting signals. It was complicated because we couldn't find a splitter that was apparently bad. Therefore the rewire job. Still that didn't quit get it there so then he finally put in the amplifier which plugs into a wall socket in the basement next to the splitter. That brought the signal to "-6". Apparently those devices must be costly because that was the last step he took.


I haven't tried the On Demand thing today. I probably won't get it either.


The tech told me that Adelphia Time Warner deal is a done deal and he expects Time Warner to take over in the next 2 months.


I told him that's not what I hear but he insisted his info was accurate.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you go to the info screen you can see "tuner 1" on page 1. It needs to be around -5db. If it's above -8 then you have a loss of signal. Good enough for many digital channels but not all apparently.



I forgot how to bring up the INFO screen...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still that didn't quit get it there so then he finally put in the amplifier which plugs into a wall socket in the basement next to the splitter. That brought the signal to "-6". Apparently those devices must be costly because that was the last step he took.



I have a lot of stuff here...three "outlets", the two upstairs include one split off the other into the bedroom. I'm surprised it all works as well as it does.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The tech told me that Adelphia Time Warner deal is a done deal and he expects Time Warner to take over in the next 2 months.
> 
> 
> I told him that's not what I hear but he insisted his info was accurate.



As I noted here, the biggest hurdle is done - the FTC approval. It's widely assumed that the FCC will approve it, and fairly quickly. I have no idea how many of the local jurisdictions have updated their Adelphia franchise agreements.


2 months? That'd be early. Adelphia and TWC both said in the past couple of days they expect it to be done by the end of the second financial quarter. By my calculations, that'd be by the end of June. TWC, on its end, has done much of the restructuring it needs to do to "run" the systems (i.e. district management, etc.), but it will still take some time.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you go to the info screen you can see "tuner 1" on page 1. It needs to be around -5db. If it's above -8 then you have a loss of signal. Good enough for many digital channels but not all apparently.



Well at least they can fix it. I'm still waiting for the guy to show up, but interestingly just noticed some of my previously-missing channels are now coming in, so I wonder if he's doing something out on the street. Not all of them are though.


I'd check my OnDemand but now I can't even get to the main screen, gives an error message with reference number 65535.


Boy, TWC can't take over soon enough. Adelphia is *by far* the crappiest television provider I've ever dealt with. No wonder they went bankrupt, thieving executives or not.


----------



## JJkizak

My car mechanic had the same problem in Aurora and he had to ***** them out to get the amp installed.


JJK


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has just added TNT-HD to the lineup, just in time for an HD Cavs game tonight!


Here's the lineup (not updated to include TNT HD yet):
http://www1.wowway.com/PDF/ClevelandChannels.pdf


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My car mechanic had the same problem in Aurora and he had to ***** them out to get the amp installed.
> 
> 
> JJK



You know when he first started talking about the procedure he was going to go through before getting to the amp I thought, geeze, why go through all that and just hook up the amp and see if it works?


I found out later that I could have probably made his life a bit easier. I figured out where the line went, I just didn't realize where the crawl space opening was.










Oh well. Didn't cost me anything extra. Just gave me the feeling that they don't like to give out those amps at the drop of a hat.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wide Open West has just added TNT-HD to the lineup, just in time for an HD Cavs game tonight!
> 
> 
> Here's the lineup (not updated to include TNT HD yet):
> http://www1.wowway.com/PDF/ClevelandChannels.pdf



Hopefully Adelphia will follow soon. I'd like to get FX in HD too.


----------



## stuart628

heres an intresting dillema, my cable box a sa8300Hd, from time warner suddenly resets itself, it freezes then resets, I assumed it was something in my setup, but my two friends (one in green, the other in akron) say there's has been doing the same thing? any thoughts? oh and one last thing, my wife watched tv for an hour and a half this morning and it reset 3 times, very frustrating!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> heres an intresting dillema, my cable box a sa8300Hd, from time warner suddenly resets itself, it freezes then resets, I assumed it was something in my setup, but my two friends (one in green, the other in akron) say there's has been doing the same thing? any thoughts? oh and one last thing, my wife watched tv for an hour and a half this morning and it reset 3 times, very frustrating!



What about the time that it happened to your friends? Was it the same time? Or different times?


If it's a TW issued your friends would have to be serviced by the same head end. If not then your all having independent issues. As you probably some from my post earlier, this is possible.


Here's what I would do. Clean up your "To Be Recorded" list. Delete everything. Then do a hard reboot (unplug it). Leave it be for 30 seconds and plug it back in. Wait for the time to come on and then power it up. Re-enter your to be recorded list.


If it continues to happen then you can call TW who will probably have you reboot and attempt to send you a signal, or you can come back here and let me know if it works. If it doesn't we can format the hard drive, but you would loose all recordings. You may want to move those on to DVD or VCR before you go there.


Or, you can try another box. You'll loose recordings either way. Or call in a service call with TW. If you want to format the hard drive go to this URL= http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859]link[/url ] to learn how.


----------



## stuart628

it ususally happens when I switch to Hbo, in the 300's but my wife has said it has happened to her other times, not just on Hbo, I will have my friends write down when it happens to them next, very frustrating though, I just switched from Dish network, to be sure i got the indians network, but this is a pain! I thought dish network recievers were buggy, I have a tech on the way also, hopefully if he shows







, i will report back here later tonight, thanks hookbill! if he cant figure it out I will work through your steps!


----------



## joepic

Since TWC corporation had made an offical announcement last October (thanks to the infro from Inundated) I was determined to get a response from my local TWC NEO. The second time is a charm









*My question to TWC:*

"It seems that the "local" TWC NEO company does NOT read their corporation announcements.


So I will ask again now that you know the announcement was made in October 2005, will TWC NEO have the HD coverage on the Universal HD channel from NBC for the Olympic games?


Below you will find all of the information on TWC announcement.


Source: http://www.timewarner.com/corp/news...1122634,00.html 

*TWC response:*

"Thank you for your recent e-mail. We always appreciate the opportunity to assist our customers.


Thank you for inquiring about the Olympic games. These games will be aired on *Channel 560* which is our Universal HD channel. This channel is located in our High Definition Tier. This tier is an additional $6.95 per month.


If you are interested in adding the High Definition Tier onto your service, please do not hesitate to contact our office.


The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.


Sincerely,


Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"


YES


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> it ususally happens when I switch to Hbo, in the 300's but my wife has said it has happened to her other times, not just on Hbo, I will have my friends write down when it happens to them next, very frustrating though, I just switched from Dish network, to be sure i got the indians network, but this is a pain! I thought dish network recievers were buggy, I have a tech on the way also, hopefully if he shows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , i will report back here later tonight, thanks hookbill! if he cant figure it out I will work through your steps!



IMHO, the Scientific Atlanta boxes are still "beta" versions and I wouldn't expect a fix any time soon. Even if SA releases a new firmware fix for the box, your cable company will be reluctant to deploy it for a few months until they test it. I have the SA8000HD on Wide Open West, and I can get that sucker to lock up hard just by changing channels too fast across the HD tier. It has a real problem re-syncing when going from a 720p channel to a 1080i channel too fast. I regularly see a black screen for like 15-20 seconds when changing HD channels. The DVI HDCP handshake to my plasma has never worked either, and I've verified it's an SA issue and not my plasma.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IMHO, the Scientific Atlanta boxes are still "beta" versions and I wouldn't expect a fix any time soon. Even if SA releases a new firmware fix for the box, your cable company will be reluctant to deploy it for a few months until they test it. I have the SA8000HD on Wide Open West, and I can get that sucker to lock up hard just by changing channels too fast across the HD tier. It has a real problem re-syncing when going from a 720p channel to a 1080i channel too fast. I regularly see a black screen for like 15-20 seconds when changing HD channels. The DVI HDCP handshake to my plasma has never worked either, and I've verified it's an SA issue and not my plasma.



I/m wondering if thats it, it only happens when we are surfing, and at different times with my friends and I, he goes From P.i.p (switches between the two and it freezes) and its only when I am really gettin into the channel changes, surfing really fast by just letting the guide load, see if I like it (no audio or video yet) and move on, usually wait about a second on each channel! I wonder what would cause this!


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since TWC corporation had made an offical announcement last October (thanks to the infro from Inundated) I was determined to get a response from my local TWC NEO. The second time is a charm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *My question to TWC:*
> 
> "It seems that the "local" TWC NEO company does NOT read their corporation announcements.
> 
> 
> So I will ask again now that you know the announcement was made in October 2005, will TWC NEO have the HD coverage on the Universal HD channel from NBC for the Olympic games?
> 
> 
> Below you will find all of the information on TWC announcement.
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.timewarner.com/corp/news...1122634,00.html
> 
> *TWC response:*
> 
> "Thank you for your recent e-mail. We always appreciate the opportunity to assist our customers.
> 
> 
> Thank you for inquiring about the Olympic games. These games will be aired on *Channel 560* which is our Universal HD channel. This channel is located in our High Definition Tier. This tier is an additional $6.95 per month.
> 
> 
> If you are interested in adding the High Definition Tier onto your service, please do not hesitate to contact our office.
> 
> 
> The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"
> 
> 
> YES



there is no channel 560, no Universal HD channel, if I would read through that, I would think its a full time channel, it isnt! its only on when they want it to be on (special sporting events) while some markets are supposedly adding this channel full time, we have yet to see it!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> there is no channel 560, no Universal HD channel, if I would read through that, I would think its a full time channel, it isnt! its only on when they want it to be on (special sporting events) while some markets are supposedly adding this channel full time, we have yet to see it!



If I understand you correctly you have never seen UHD on cable. I think you're making some bad assumptions here. Just because you don't have the channel yet doesn't mean you won't get it as a full time channel. They could still be working on adding the channel for your division and could plan on keeping it full time.


I could understand your position if you had UHD for the US Open and they took it away and now they say they're bringing it back for the Olympics, but from what you said you haven't had the channel before.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I understand you correctly you have never seen UHD on cable. I think you're making some bad assumptions here. Just because you don't have the channel yet doesn't mean you won't get it as a full time channel. They could still be working on adding the channel for your division and could plan on keeping it full time.
> 
> 
> I could understand your position if you had UHD for the US Open and they took it away and now they say they're bringing it back for the Olympics, but from what you said you haven't had the channel before.



sorry to clarify, There has been a UHD channel on, and of course it was on channel 560, but when I read through that it made it seem like a full time Hd channel, but in reality in my area Northeast ohio, it has only been on for about two weeks at a time (someone want to double check that figure, dont know how long the u.s. open was) in fact they had it twice, but then took it down, thats all, and in my time warner newsletter, it said the channel will be up again, but only for the olympics, then who knows what happens. To me they made it a little misleading thats all.


here is from my newsletter!


Like most cable networks, neither USA, MSNBC, nor CNBC have an HD feed. Therefore, Time Warner Cable will temporarily carry Universal HD on position 560 to provide an HD simulcast of much of the programming on those three networks - primarily LIVE coverage of both Men's and Women's Hockey. Universal HD will also feature the nightly figure skating program, Olympic Ice.



and here is the part that gets me


This channel is located in our High Definition Tier. This tier is an additional $6.95 per month.


If you are interested in adding the High Definition Tier onto your service, please do not hesitate to contact our office.

that was from his quote of the email, see how they try and get you to believe its a part of the tier, when really its just a special temporary channel (or has been things could be changing this time)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> that was from his quote of the email, see how they try and get you to believe its a part of the tier, when really its just a special temporary channel (or has been things could be changing this time)



It could well be. I wouldn't read too much into it not being available right now. If it isn't available when the Olympics start, it'd be another story.


----------



## mrblond128

I emailed DirecTV regarding carrying Indians games and this is their response:


"Thanks for writing. I'm sorry but we don't carry Fastball Sports Productions right now. However, we often add programming based on customer requests, and I have forwarded your request to DIRECTV management."


I'd suggest other DirecTV subscribers worried about watching Indians baseball this year do the same.


----------



## stuart628

does fastball sports productions have a website? I would like to be able to track this channel, tommorow is the superbowl, and I believe in two weeks pitchers and catchers report to spring training, the indians gear has already made its way to florida, baseball is right around the corner, I would love to know if I am going to be able to watch the indians or not!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrblond128* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I emailed DirecTV regarding carrying Indians games and this is their response:
> 
> 
> "Thanks for writing. I'm sorry but we don't carry Fastball Sports Productions right now. However, we often add programming based on customer requests, and I have forwarded your request to DIRECTV management."
> 
> 
> I'd suggest other DirecTV subscribers worried about watching Indians baseball this year do the same.



The worker bee who answered your E-Mail probably has no idea what you're asking for, and even if DirecTV was about to sign up to carry the games, they would still have no idea.










But I second your idea. And the same for Dish Network, Adelphia and Comcast folks as well!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> does fastball sports productions have a website?



Not at this time. They're basically co-owned with the team, so anything regarding the TV network would probably show up first on Indians.com.


I've sent an E-Mail to the Indians, as well, indicating my concern about Adelphia and Comcast...since the TWC deal probably won't be completed before the first Spring Training games air.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've sent an E-Mail to the Indians, as well, indicating my concern about Adelphia and Comcast...since the TWC deal probably won't be completed before the first Spring Training games air.



Bet your hoping that tech that came out to my house last week is right.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bet your hoping that tech that came out to my house last week is right.













I still say he's optimistic.


The fastest track possible would be an FCC approval this upcoming week. But they are still dealing with local jurisdictions, which have to approve the transfer of franchise agreements.


I wouldn't bet the house, but I'd be surprised if it was all "done" by the first pitch of the first Spring Training game. By the start of the season itself? Outside chance.


Best case scenario for the Indians games is that even if they don't gain physical control of Adelphia/Comcast by the start of the season, that they green light throwing the games on Adelphia 15 and whatever Comcast's local channels are. But honestly, they should do that NOW, and worry about the financials later.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But I second your idea. And the same for Dish Network, Adelphia and Comcast folks as well!



Don't forget about us Wide Open Westers... what's the email for this Fastball Sports Network?


It's the night before SBXL and as Murphy would have it, my HD channels are flaking out because of this "springlike" weather. (Known problem here, I suspect I'm getting moisture in the "taps" at the pole which I usually don't have to worry about until March/April. The analogs are fine, but the digitals, especially the high bandwidth HD channels go whacky...)


Fortunately as a backup I have the Samsung SIR-T165 OTA receiver at the ready to pull in WEWS. PQ is better OTA than the POS SA8000HD anyway...


(Did I use enough acronyms above? LOL.)


----------



## jtscherne

The company just hired a general manager this week.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/.../60203009/1031 


One of his duties will be to get contracts with cable and satellite companies worked out. I agree that we need to keep up the pressure (I already wrote Dish Network) and hopefully we'll get more details soon.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

stupid WEWS lost the HD feed of the basketball game.


If they screw up teh Superbowl, er, big game, I'm gonna burn their building down.


Ok they are safe, its back on....for now.


Nevermind. Its back to SD to show an Amber Alert notification.


If all for helping kids who are kidnapped. But if an Amber Alert was really so important they wouldnt cut out of it to go to commercial.


----------



## Inundated

Anyone wishing to contact the Fastball folks, I'd advise contacting the Indians directly. Not only do they own the network, but they are driving the bus anyway and need to hear from fans.


That article does sound promising...it appears they're well aware of the need to spread the network as wide as possible.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If all for helping kids who are kidnapped. But if an Amber Alert was really so important they wouldnt cut out of it to go to commercial.



For what it's worth, even FOX 8 had to drop into SD to show a weather advisory Saturday night. I don't know why, since they can clearly do HD graphics (news). Maybe they didn't wanna route the FOX programming through the newsroom switcher, or just couldn't... I thought the splicer could handle HD graphics, tho.


----------



## fpo701

Is anyone else having problems getting local HDs from TW Akron? I can get WJW, WKYC, and 45/49. Can't get the rest. I hope they get this figured out by game time.


Frank


----------



## wagz182ksu

I can't get get ABC WUAB or CBS, located in Stow...


I am going to be really mad if the feed doesn't come back on ABC before the superbowl starts...


the wait time on TWC's phone line is between 2 and 3 hours by the way


----------



## Inundated

Wish I could help, but we're not in TWC land yet here.










But I can confirm WEWS-DT is up and running in HD...watching via Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated

Umm, hello WEWS? WE KNOW IT IS SNOWING OUTSIDE!


Thank you.


----------



## snagy

ok, i have DirecTV, live near bainbridge, decent antenna setup, was watching SuperBowl on 5-1 and got signal readings (using Directv method) of 90 to 100 (which is good), let for some reason dropped to zero. It would seem like the transmitter just quit working for a few seconds. i would assume also that due to the weather, i would just drop to say 40 or 50 on the signal meter. My wife says it does the same thing during the day during her soaps. So weather would not be the problem. Anyone else with DirecTV experience similar situations on 5-1?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ok, i have DirecTV, live near bainbridge, decent antenna setup, was watching SuperBowl on 5-1 and got signal readings (using Directv method) of 90 to 100 (which is good), let for some reason dropped to zero. It would seem like the transmitter just quit working for a few seconds. i would assume also that due to the weather, i would just drop to say 40 or 50 on the signal meter. My wife says it does the same thing during the day during her soaps. So weather would not be the problem. Anyone else with DirecTV experience similar situations on 5-1?



I have D*, but I live in Medina. I don't have any problems like that with 5-1. Actually, it's the strongest digital I get (except, maybe, for 8-1).


Others on here are far more educated than I, but it sounds like you may have a multipath issue. I get very similar symptoms to yours on 19-1. The signal will be about 90% occassionally, but most of the time it's down about 2% with no lock. I've tried everything, and my best guess is that for that particular channel, I'm actually receiving the signal mutiple times just offset a little. This effectively negates the digital signal.


One quick way to check is to tune to the analog channel 5 (not the D* picture) and check for any ghosting. I get a lot on 19, and that's what's making me think that multipath is the problem.


I've noticed for me that wind seems to be an issue for the signal on 19. On still days, it will sometimes lock. But if the breeze is blowing (like it was last night) forget it.


Anyway, does your signal change if you move your antenna a little?


Oh, and speaking of D*, I was forced to watch SBXL on an upstairs TV last night, and I had to watch the SD D* feed on channel 5. The macroblocking was so bad from compression that the box actually locked up a couple of times and lost picture and sound for about 10 to 15 seconds. I could tell that it wasn't a station issue, as it was happening on several different stations. It seems that D* cranked back on the bandwidth available for the locals for some reason. But they absolutely hit the bottom with it last night.


----------



## jtscherne

I watched ABC-DT OTA last night and had good signal most of the night. However, it started to fluctuate in the 4th quarter and I started to lose it.


----------



## snagy

at my house, i get all the channels about 90 to 100 all the time, i have never seen the meter register anything less than 80 (besides zero) , According to Directv this morning, i would still get a picture with atleast a 60 signal strengt. unfortunately, i can't climb on the roof till the snow melts, so turning antenna is not an option yet. I just find it hard to believe let alone understand how the signal goes from 90 to zero and back to 90 again.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ok, i have DirecTV, live near bainbridge, decent antenna setup, was watching SuperBowl on 5-1 and got signal readings (using Directv method) of 90 to 100 (which is good), let for some reason dropped to zero. It would seem like the transmitter just quit working for a few seconds. i would assume also that due to the weather, i would just drop to say 40 or 50 on the signal meter. My wife says it does the same thing during the day during her soaps. So weather would not be the problem. Anyone else with DirecTV experience similar situations on 5-1?



I'm in Bainbridge & have DirecTV (HDR10-250). For whatever reason, 5-1 is my problematic station OTA. Last night during the SuperBowl it was very well behaved though w/few breakups all night. The only "problem" I'd say was when it went dark at ~9:03, but then they went to an upconvert for a couple minutes so I'm pretty sure that was a station issue.


Yesterday during the day my signal strength on 5-1 was locked at 90. When I'm having problems I'll see it bounce rapidly from 40 to 80 and back although I seldom see it hit 0 - I believe the bounce is a sign of multipath, but I've yet to figure out what the trigger for the problem is - in part because I Tivo most things and watch them delayed, I don't know there's a problem until a couple days later. I had been presuming it's weather related somehow.


As an experiment (and insurance that I'd get the SuperBowl in HD) I spliced off my antenna input and fed it into my HDTV's tuner & was watching some of the pregame that way cutting out the DirecTV box. My reception was quite spotty via the TV tuner & far worse than via the HD Tivo. That splice was 3 to 5 dB down from what I feed the HD Tivo and didn't pick up 3-1 either, so it may just mean my TV's digital tuner isn't all that and/or the extra splice was meaningful.


Does make me wonder if there's some source of multi-path that's inherent along the 422 corridor to disrupt 5-1 though since you're having similar issues w/ABC. If you're also using the HD Tivo, it might also point to a weakness inherent to that tuner, although I was expecting better results w/my TV's tuner if it was a problem with the D* box.


----------



## snagy

i live along the 422 corridor myself by LaDue, i don't have tivo unit, just the HD Directv box from about 1 year ago. like i said above, it just drops from 90 to zero or 100 to zero, i have never seen anything other reading on my signal meter. Not even on the other channels which are perfect. I also have an antenna pointing to Youngstown to pick up 21-1 and 27 and 33 which come in about 80 usually, which is stable in my books. when i have cut outs, its always a zero, the channel will play in the background while you are looking at the meter (which is nice to see). It will say "Looking for Signal". I have just learned to live with it, i will check on the multi path issue, i doubt it being weather, even though it was windy yesterday.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Bainbridge & have DirecTV (HDR10-250). For whatever reason, 5-1 is my problematic station OTA. Last night during the SuperBowl it was very well behaved though w/few breakups all night. The only "problem" I'd say was when it went dark at ~9:03, but then they went to an upconvert for a couple minutes so I'm pretty sure that was a station issue.



Watching via Adelphia, I saw that too.


Also I was a bit concerned during the pregame when they kept converting to SD for the "Weather Warnings". Geeze it's snowing in Cleveland.










Fortunately someone at the station had the good sense not to continue that throughout the broadcast.


----------



## JJkizak

I had no problem at all with the superbowl with the OTA setup. They did go back and forth with the SD occasionally with crawls during the basketball game. Signal was steady at 70 -80 %.


JJK


----------



## ajstan99

I've had problems with WEWS since the new year. Looks like my problem may have been antenna/multipath related.


Signal strength was all over the board using a Silver Sensor. Kept trying to move the antenna to no avail. Finally found an antenna position last Monday where WEWS was rock solid. Kept it in the same place all week and it hasn't wavered. WOIO and WUAB were initially gone, but now are coming in.


Antenna is split to feed Sylvania SRZ3000 and Accurian (RadioShack) tuners. Both units generally have the same success tuning in channels with the same antenna position (Sylvania may be a little better although it's on a shorter cable run) so I don't think that the problem is STB-specific.


----------



## rlockshin

Anyone else missing 50-1,2,3,and 4? I hope that it is the station,not me


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else missing 50-1,2,3,and 4? I hope that it is the station,not me



I can't see anything either though I have a good signal strength. Hopefully it comes back soon and this time with HDTV.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't see anything either though I have a good signal strength. Hopefully it comes back soon and this time with HDTV.



Same here. I am getting 7 bars solid on my signal strength meter, which is typical for WEAO. I am hoping this is a prelude to getting the PBS HD feed back up. Last I heard, they were hoping for some time in Jan. I have been waiting since I got my HDTV sometime in Nov to see PBS HD, since I am not one of the six or so people who can pull in WVIZ-DTs anemic signal.


BTW, anyone in the North Canton area have trouble pulling in WKYC-DT last night? I was receiving it the night before, but nothing last night. This is the way WKYC-DT is for me - sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a pattern to the reception problems.


----------



## clevemkt

WEAO-DT says they had a failure in their microwave system from the studio to the transmitter. Parts ordered... should be repaired on Tuesday.


----------



## gzath

Just picked up my Panny TH42PX50U yesterday and got it set up. Damn tired this morning because I stayed up late to watch Terry Bradshaw make an ass of himself on Leno in beautiful HDTV glory. (Ha, they even showed the Joe "Turkey" Jones pile driver sack of him into the Cleveland turf from years ago)


I use an OTA setup with a HDTVo Terk antenna. I pull in all channels just fine in Brunswick. I have Dish but not the HDTV setup yet ... maybe this Summer.


I also picked up a Cyberhome Upconverting DVD player at Wally Mart for $80 .. just couldn't pass it up. Did a couple quick DVD views and everytning is nice and crisp


All in all I'm a happy camper. Just a few audio glitches with my Surround system but nothing I can't work around and track down on the net. I did notice that the center channel was out on the Leno show. Not sure if it was network specific ... 24 came in great on Fox.


Missed the Super Bowl in HDTV but the Olympics are comin' up.










Next step is to get a good Uni remote to alleviate the 4 I have to use now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> INext step is to get a good Uni remote to alleviate the 4 I have to use now.



I would recommend the Harmony remote. I love mine.


----------



## lefkas

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to get a straight answer.


I have Akron/Canton Time Warner cable. Basic, analog cable.


I am considering buying a basic HDTV, and a remote STB that is QAM-capable -- specifically the LG LST-4200a.


The question is, if I use my basic analog cable feed, will this tuner be able to pick-up the Local HD channels? I expect TWC's channels like ESPN-YD, etc., to be encrypted, but I'm talking about just the locals. I would really prefer NOT to install and OTA antenna if I don't have to.


Depending on whom I've talked to, I get conflicting answers like: "Nah, you need a cable card or Time Warner's own digital STB to get ANY HD over the cable," or:

"No, by law, TWC can't encrypt local HD."


Any thoughts or experiences out there ?


Thx


----------



## Commodore 64

Local HD should not be encrypted.


I *think* you will be fine with a QAM receiver though because I know of people who pull in local HD and other unencrypted QAM stuff on their cable lines, even though they only pay for internet access (i.e. they don't even have basic cable TV).


----------



## SteveC

My apologies if someone has already mentioned this, but UHD is now in the guide on TWC Akron. Just noticed it last night while surfing.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The question is, if I use my basic analog cable feed, will this tuner be able to pick-up the Local HD channels? I expect TWC's channels like ESPN-YD, etc., to be encrypted, but I'm talking about just the locals. I would really prefer NOT to install and OTA antenna if I don't have to.



I'm pretty sure TWC's locals are non-encrypted for QAM.


I know Adelphia's are, as that's how I get them on my USB HDTV tuner.


----------



## hookbill

For some time now I've been having a problem with my SA 8300 dropping high definition recorded programs in the middle of recording (Adelphia Cable). I've discussed this on the various SA 8300 threads and I'm beginning to think that it's not the SA 8300, but rather corrupted data that's on the IPG.


I've checked this from every angle from disconnecting my SATA external hd to returning the SA 8300 for another unit. Nothing has worked.


The work around would be schedule manual recordings, but I don't have to tell you what a pia that would be.


1. It never happens to a daytime recording. Only night time on local area network HD shows.


2. It makes sense that corrupted data would cause this problem, but why just HD and local stations only?


I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this in the Cleveland Suburbs area of Adelphia. Basically East of Cleveland as far south as the Southern end of Geauga County. If you have an 8300 and Adelphia and live in this area please let me know if you are or are not experiencing this problem.


----------



## gzath

I'm using a Terk OTA HDTVo and get all the channels fine in Brunswick. Last night, I watched Fox on the listed 8.1. Today, when I got home from work I found that 8.1 was not on. I did another autosearch and saw a lone 31.3 channel. When I checked it out I found it to be Fox 8










Am I'm missing something here? Is this a prob with my tuner? The signal is great at 98 and the pic is fine.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm using a Terk OTA HDTVo and get all the channels fine in Brunswick. Last night, I watched Fox on the listed 8.1. Today, when I got home from work I found that 8.1 was not on. I did another autosearch and saw a lone 31.3 channel. When I checked it out I found it to be Fox 8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am I'm missing something here? Is this a prob with my tuner? The signal is great at 98 and the pic is fine.




Same here, they must be having a problem with their PSIP data. WJW-DT really is (and has been) on RF channel 31. It is our DTV receivers that map it to 8-1 using the station transmited PSIP data.


----------



## JoeySR

I am in Burton with Adelphia and SA 8300 and I am not having that problem.


JoeySR


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For some time now I've been having a problem with my SA 8300 dropping high definition recorded programs in the middle of recording (Adelphia Cable). I've discussed this on the various SA 8300 threads and I'm beginning to think that it's not the SA 8300, but rather corrupted data that's on the IPG.



Hi again hookbill,


Boy, we just have all the luck here with Adelphia don't we? I've *just* started having this problem, starting yesterday. I was recording 24 and watching something else previously recorded on my DVR. Several times my DVR would stop playing the recorded show and switch me to 24. So much so it became a big nuisance. I didn't think much (I've come to be pretty cynical of the SA8300HD & Adelphia), and just switched back and resumed watching my DVR recording. It wasn't until later I noticed that my 24 recording was mangled -- I had 2 1-minute recordings of it. What the hell?


And just now I had the same thing happen. Again I was watching something previously recorded on my DVR (Nature), and was simultaneously recording House and Scrubs. Sure enough, twice my DVR kicked out and switched to House. This time I checked my DVR listings and noticed the first time it reported House as being 46 minutes long (huh?). The next time it happened House was reported as 44 minutes. I guess I'll just have to call them yet again.


Oh by the way, I'm still waiting on a technician to come out to try and resolve the original problem we shared (missing digital channels). Apparently the first person I talked to at Adelphia failed to even log the fact that I called, not to mention schedule my appointment. At this point I'm trying to figure out how to clandestinely hang a sat dish out my window so the leasing office doesn't bust me. ugh.


Anybody know any Adelphia higher ups? I think it's time to write a letter or two.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am in Burton with Adelphia and SA 8300 and I am not having that problem.
> 
> 
> JoeySR



Tonight on FOX again House broke up into several pieces. It's complete, just not totally in one "recording."


Odd that right now it's only happening on FOX. I'll probably never figure this one out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi again hookbill,
> 
> 
> Boy, we just have all the luck here with Adelphia don't we? I've *just* started having this problem, starting yesterday. I was recording 24 and watching something else previously recorded on my DVR. Several times my DVR would stop playing the recorded show and switch me to 24. So much so it became a big nuisance. I didn't think much (I've come to be pretty cynical of the SA8300HD & Adelphia), and just switched back and resumed watching my DVR recording. It wasn't until later I noticed that my 24 recording was mangled -- I had 2 1-minute recordings of it. What the hell?
> 
> 
> And just now I had the same thing happen. Again I was watching something previously recorded on my DVR (Nature), and was simultaneously recording House and Scrubs. Sure enough, twice my DVR kicked out and switched to House. This time I checked my DVR listings and noticed the first time it reported House as being 46 minutes long (huh?). The next time it happened House was reported as 44 minutes. I guess I'll just have to call them yet again.
> 
> 
> Oh by the way, I'm still waiting on a technician to come out to try and resolve the original problem we shared (missing digital channels). Apparently the first person I talked to at Adelphia failed to even log the fact that I called, not to mention schedule my appointment. At this point I'm trying to figure out how to clandestinely hang a sat dish out my window so the leasing office doesn't bust me. ugh.
> 
> 
> Anybody know any Adelphia higher ups? I think it's time to write a letter or two.



lol...we posted at the same time. I really don't know what we can do about this. It's ridiculous. I can try my contact at Adelphia again, but this one is real hard to prove.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tonight on FOX again House broke up into several pieces. It's complete, just not totally in one "recording."
> 
> 
> Odd that right now it's only happening on FOX. I'll probably never figure this one out.



I was going to ask you which network...because I do know that Adelphia's guide data for WKYC-DT (NBC) is actually the guide data for the analog channel. (Remember when it wasn't there at all? They fixed it by copying over the WKYC analog guide data, IIRC.)


I don't know if that'd make any difference or not.


----------



## Telosian

For what it is worth I had the same problem with recording 24 on Monday night. I tried to record two shows last night (Law & Order) and Boston Legal. I watched L&O in real time as it was recording (no delay from the 8300) to see if it would kick out and revert to Boston Legal. It did not. I will try the same thing with a Fox show tonight and see if we can narrow it down to a weak signal on Fox? Who knows? Let me know if I can be helpful in any way on this. Please keep posting about the problem so we can all confront Adelphia with the shared experience.


----------



## bassguitarman

Same problem for me

Adelphia and 8300

Recorded House, it cut out like 8 times and I ended up with House in small segments.

I hope this isnt a software update or broadcast "no-record" flag issue.


----------



## bassguitarman

Just found out it happened to a friend with HD Tivo and TWC

Either Fox or WJW messing around....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just found out it happened to a friend with HD Tivo and TWC
> 
> Either Fox or WJW messing around....



Now that's interesting! And 8 times is how many it cut out on me as well.


Tonight I'm recording Bones as a manual recording. If it is a FOX issue then if it breaks up with those of you recording through the IPG then it should break up when I record it as well.


I'm not sure if I mentioned this previously but FOX had this same issue around Super Bowl last year.


Also, this is happening to others outside of our area. I saw a post in the thread "SA 8300 and SATA....it works" where someone else had the break up on 24.


So it may very well be FOX.


----------



## blipszyc

Another 8300 user having issues with Fox. Happened first with OC last week, and now 24 and House. I do recall having a similar issue to this last year as well. Eventually it went away.


The bigger problem I'm having, and I don't know if its related, but if I'm watching a pre-recorded show, and something else starts or stops recording (FOX or another channel), my pre-recorded show stops playback and jumps to the channel of the recording. Anyone else have this problem too? (on other channels other than FOX?)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another 8300 user having issues with Fox. Happened first with OC last week, and now 24 and House. I do recall having a similar issue to this last year as well. Eventually it went away.
> 
> 
> The bigger problem I'm having, and I don't know if its related, but if I'm watching a pre-recorded show, and something else starts or stops recording (FOX or another channel), my pre-recorded show stops playback and jumps to the channel of the recording. Anyone else have this problem too? (on other channels other than FOX?)



Yep, that's all part of it. Your recorded show stops and switches every time a new recording starts. However to the best of my knowledge this only happens on FOX shows.


Fortunately you do not lose your place in the recording. When you tune to channel 800 the show is right where you left it.


Question is how in the heck do we explain this to Adelphia? I'm sure they will shrug their shoulders and say it's a FOX issue, but how is that causing the 8300 to switch channels?


----------



## terryfoster

Just to throw some additional data your way, this is not an issue with WXIX-DT (FOX) in Cincinnati land with TWC and SA8300HD running Passport software.


Bassguitarman,

HD TiVo for use with Cable (TiVo Series 3) is not yet available to the general public if anyone. Are you sure they aren't using a SA8300HD? If your friend is using the SA8300HD from TWC then they also would be running Passport software AND be having problems with WJW-DT.


So,

Adelphia's SA8300HD is having problems recording FOX shows in one segment

Probably TWC's SA8300HD in NEO is having problems recording FOX shows in one segment

TWC's SA8300HD is NOT having problems recording FOX shows in one segment in Cincinnati


Personally, I would start directing my complaints with the above information to WLW-DT.


It's possible that their signal is breaking up or cutting out for some part of an instant which maybe causing the DVR to stop recording and start a new recording with a new segment.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just to throw some additional data your way, this is not an issue with WXIX-DT (FOX) in Cincinnati land with TWC and SA8300HD running Passport software.
> 
> 
> Bassguitarman,
> 
> HD TiVo for use with Cable (TiVo Series 3) is not yet available to the general public if anyone. Are you sure they aren't using a SA8300HD? If your friend is using the SA8300HD from TWC then they also would be running Passport software AND be having problems with WJW-DT.
> 
> 
> So,
> 
> Adelphia's SA8300HD is having problems recording FOX shows in one segment
> 
> Probably TWC's SA8300HD in NEO is having problems recording FOX shows in one segment
> 
> TWC's SA8300HD is NOT having problems recording FOX shows in one segment in Cincinnati
> 
> 
> Personally, I would start directing my complaints with the above information to WLW-DT.
> 
> 
> It's possible that their signal is breaking up or cutting out for some part of an instant which maybe causing the DVR to stop recording and start a new recording with a new segment.



I assume that's a typo and you meant WJW-DT.










WJW Engineer often post here but unfortunately he doesn't accept pm's. I don't blame him, he probably would get overwhelmed.


I'm going to send this to my connection at Adelphia, see if she can forward it somewhere along with the link for this thread.


We have to start somewhere. Adelphia may even have a clue.


----------



## DarkDogg

It has been happening for about a week at my house. I have "2" 8300HD units running in my house (one upstairs and one in the basement) and it has happened on both of them. I've had 24, House and American Idol all break into pieces on me. This is getting very frustrating. I replaced the unit at their Severence location and the problem did not go away. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. What is the next step we should take?


-Dave

Euclid, OH


----------



## hookbill

I just sent the following email to my contact in Adelphia:


Hi Rita,


Once again many of us are experiencing a problem with the SA 8300 recordings. What's going on now is bazaar to say the least.


Apparently this started last week. When recording a show on 708 (WJW-DT FOX) in HD during primetime ONLY, the recording causes the 8300 to first change from whatever your watching to the show it is recording. Easy enough to deal with, you just tune back to the show or recording you were watching.


But then what happens is the recording starts segmenting the show. It will record for 5 minutes then stop and start again. Last night my recording of House was broken into 8 segments, and at the start of each recording the recording I was watching was switched back to the FOX recording.


The same thing has happened on shows throughout the past week, even non high definition shows like Cops. Again this is only on channel 708, WJW FOX.


Please ask someone to take a look at this link and read backwards from there in our AVS forum. People are taking their SA 8300's back and the unit is not the problem. This is happening to many people. As I stated it may not be Adelphia's problem but someone has got to talk to FOX if they are the ones with the problem.


And for what it's worth I'm finding this problem not only locally but in other areas in the country as well too. Which makes it more likely in my opinion to be a FOX issue.


Anyway, kindly have someone take a look.


Thanks again,


And I included name phone number and address.


This person is usually pretty good at getting me answers. We shall see.


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, that's all part of it. Your recorded show stops and switches every time a new recording starts. However to the best of my knowledge this only happens on FOX shows.



Actually, this is happening with any show on any channel. Last night, my wife was watching Close to Home and Ghost Whisperer from last week. At 9:00, a repeat of Criminal Minds (CBS) (damn repeats - can't this DVR remember these) started recording and interupted her pre-recorded show and again at 10:00 when Law and Order (NBC) began recording. This happens with FOX shows too, but is more annoying because FOX is also chunking the recordings up for some reason.


And while you think it might be no big deal to just retune to 800 and continue watching, its not somethng that my wife understands or wants to understand. This problem only just started last week. Prior to that, everything worked ok.


----------



## hookbill

Oh without a doubt this is a PIA. It needs to be fixed, no question.


Well, as I said earlier I've written to my Adelphia person. It's lunch time now, let's see if she gets back to me by end of day.


----------



## Inundated

hookbill, and others:


Is this "segmenting" coordinated with commercial breaks, either at the start or stop?


The reason I ask - on my Fusion HDTV5 USB unit, the software locks up when FOX goes into, and out of, commercial breaks. The apparent cause - a switch from 5.1 audio to 2.0 audio, and back again. Or, the other direction.


I had my tuner set to WJW-DT at just before 8 the other day, and the second FOX went into national programming (and 5.1 audio), it locked up. I can go back into the software and watch it with the 5.1 audio active, but for whatever reason, the changeover causes a lockup.


I'm wondering if the 8300 is being thrown by this, perhaps? Let me know if it is around commercial breaks... if that is the case, maybe we have the same problem, and maybe FOX 8 needs to fix that somehow.


The same "lockup" has been reported on local FOX channels in at least some other markets.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill, and others:
> 
> 
> Is this "segmenting" coordinated with commercial breaks, either at the start or stop?
> 
> 
> The reason I ask - on my Fusion HDTV5 USB unit, the software locks up when FOX goes into, and out of, commercial breaks. The apparent cause - a switch from 5.1 audio to 2.0 audio, and back again. Or, the other direction.
> 
> 
> I had my tuner set to WJW-DT at just before 8 the other day, and the second FOX went into national programming (and 5.1 audio), it locked up. I can go back into the software and watch it with the 5.1 audio active, but for whatever reason, the changeover causes a lockup.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if the 8300 is being thrown by this, perhaps? Let me know if it is around commercial breaks... if that is the case, maybe we have the same problem, and maybe FOX 8 needs to fix that somehow.
> 
> 
> The same "lockup" has been reported on local FOX channels in at least some other markets.



I don't think so because the size of the fragments of the show are very odd. For example, 5 min record, the 16 minutes record, then 2 minutes record then 24 minutes. All in all it was 8 pieces to make up one show. That's far too many "breaks" in a regular broadcast.


That still doesn't suggest to me however that it isn't a FOX issue.


----------



## DarkDogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill, and others:
> 
> 
> Is this "segmenting" coordinated with commercial breaks, either at the start or stop?



I looked through my "chunks" and none of them were in the middle of the shows. The breaks all happened during commercials. Interesting...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That still doesn't suggest to me however that it isn't a FOX issue.



So, you are still persuing the avenue of this being a FOX source issue rather than a affiliate issue or are you interchanging FOX for WJW-DT? I would highly doubt that this is a FOX source issue since it isn't affecting ALL markets (no problem in Cinci).


----------



## peter1377

Here's my story -- I set my Dish 942 to tape American Idol on 8-1 (Fox) last night at 8pm. I was out of the house but when I got home at 8:30 I turned on my DVR to start the show from the beginning. The program list showed it not being taped. However, the DVR wouldn't let me change channels w/o putting up a warning that I would lose my active recording if I changed channels now. Even better, the 'schedule' showed American Idol as being taped. Normally, you would see a show that is being actively taped in the schedule and in the recorded program list. I waited until 9:00 and sure enough, no recording of American Idol was made.


For what its worth, two shows I had set to record later last night (one on cable and one on 19-1) both taped successfully.


I suppose this doesn't get us any closer to an answer, but it continues the suspicion of Fox being weird.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill, and others:
> 
> 
> Is this "segmenting" coordinated with commercial breaks, either at the start or stop?



This is all very interesting, in that heart wrenchingly frustrating, want-to-tear-your-hair-out sort of way! Unfortunately I'm not as lucky as some; my recordings are totally mangled. As opposed to what you're describing hookbill, I don't get the entire program just chunked up. I only get a few chunks (2 or 3) that are just a few minutes long. So about 5 minutes total. And each chunk only seems to record commercials. Now who knows, that might be coincidental but perhaps symptomatic of the 5.1 to 2.0 audio switch suggested above.


I should also say that my 9:30 recording of Scrubs (NBC) was screwed up too -- only 16 minutes long. But it was being recorded simultaneously with House, so that might've caused it.


Finally, one last datum to throw into the mix which may or may not be related -- my OnDemand has been screwed up for about a week now (ever since they took away the accidentally free ones). I get a message with error number 65535 (looks like an unsigned -1 to programmers, for what it's worth).


I've got a tech coming out tomorrow morning regarding my missing digital channels. I'll be sure to bring all this up and direct him to the forum if it hasn't been resolved by then.


----------



## ClevelandJax

I have NO idea if this is related or not, but I stumbled on these while googling and found it eerily familiar.

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/02/american_idol_b.html 
http://www.highdefforum.com/archive/...hp/t-4731.html 


I haven't had a chance to read through it all, so again I reiterate, this is puuurrreee speculation that these problem might be connected. Especially since they're from 2005. But they are perhaps indicative of Fox's propensity to screw with their stream headers.


----------



## hookbill

OK. So it happens for some only during commercials, and others whenever there is a commercial break.


I just was watching Judge Judy recorded yesterday when the DVR started recording Judge Joe Brown and for the first time ever during the day on a non HD program (but on a digitital channel) the 8300 switched to the recorded program.


In the meantime I received a phone call from an engineer from Adelphia. His name was Joe and he was out of the Macedonia office. He thanked me for my letter which had the link to this forum. He said they don't know what the problem is that is causing the issue but he thanked me for the link to this forum. He admitted that the standard response is switch out the box but after reading through the comments in this forum the would have to do further investigation. I explained that I too had my box switched out last week. He said they are going to look into it and he promised a call back to me when he got an answer.


I mentioned to him that I appreciated his call and that we were having a tough time trying to talk to someone at Adelphia about this without getting a standard level 1 CSR response. I explained to him that the folks at this forum are not their "standard" customers and that we did know a thing or two about how cable and HD works. He said he understood and invited me to ask for him at the Macedonia office if I was ever in the area.


This could all be pr, or it could be we may get some genuine results.


ClevelandJax, your links certainly show that this problem is widespread. It may be affecting satellite as well, and Joe noticed that when he looked in the forum.


Time will tell.


----------



## gallivanter

Like to add a little bit to this problem. We have two 8300s out in Perry and we experienced two separate but similar issues with both of them last evening. First, I tried to record House as normal through the program guide. After the show started, and while I was watching it, (my wife was not, hence recording it), I noticed that it was not recording. I checked the guide and sure enough it was not listed to record. It was when I checked prior to the start of the show. So I then tried to simply record it using the 'record' button. I received the confirmation screen and pressed the 'A' button when asked to, but no luck as it would not record. I tried a couple of other times, but on the third time I was then given the screen notifying me that I had a conflict since I already had two recordings scheduled, the other two times that I tried to force the recording of House. Not only could I never make this work, I could never cancel one of the House 'recordings', though nothing ever actually recorded.


Frustrated, I went to our other 8300. I hit the record button, hit the 'A' button to confirm, and got the red record light. Nothing else was recording, nor were we watching any other programs. Since it appeared to be recording normally, I simply turned off the television. When my wife went to watch it, it was segmented into either 8 or 7 segments, I am not certain. I then obviously knew that something strange was going on with the channel or show.


Just thought I would add my experience.


----------



## hookbill

Thanks gallivanter. Hopefully Joe will come back to this thread and read your comment too.


I had CNN on at 3:30 and it switched to my recording of "Judge Alex" on it's own.

So that makes twice now I've seen it happen during the day. And while the recording is not breaking into segments it is happening at the top of the show.


There was no breaks in the recording of "Judge Joe Brown." I doubt there will be in Judge Alex either since they are SD shows. Inundated's comments about switching from SD to HD are starting to make sense.


I still haven't seen this happen on any other channel the WJW-DT. I'm wondering if it will be more widespread this evening.


----------



## hookbill

I just went through my recording(s) of House last night. Every small recording was commercials. After I deleted these recordings it left me with 42 minutes of show in 3 seperate recordings.


Granted this is not good because every time it stops and starts recording it is switching channels as well....but I have less commercials to ff through now.










Just trying to look on the bright side.


----------



## SteveC

It almost sounds like Adelphia might have downloaded a new version of the code that runs in the 8300. Has anyone asked(obviously someone who would know) if they have done this? It sounds like the box is acting so differently a code "upgrade" sure could be a possible culprit. Maybe there is something unique in the way WJW does their switching at commercial breaks that is hitting a bug in the 8300 software. Just a thought.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just went through my recording(s) of House last night. Every small recording was commercials. After I deleted these recordings it left me with 42 minutes of show in 3 seperate recordings.
> 
> 
> Granted this is not good because every time it stops and starts recording it is switching channels as well....but I have less commercials to ff through now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just trying to look on the bright side.




Are you guys recording this in HD? Fox uses a splicing system at the affiliates to allow them to insert programming into the bitstream. It sounds like something in that splicing system is throwing your machines into a snit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you guys recording this in HD? Fox uses a splicing system at the affiliates to allow them to insert programming into the bitstream. It sounds like something in that splicing system is throwing your machines into a snit.



Could be. Yes, we are recording in HD. Should we call WJW?


I recorded 4 court daytime tv shows. During that time I had my 8300 on either watching a recoding or watching live. All shows were on WJW-DT. On each occasion my viewing channel was switched to the recording show.


There were no break ups on these shows however. They recorded in their entirety.


Makes me wonder if this is a seperate issue.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It almost sounds like Adelphia might have downloaded a new version of the code that runs in the 8300.



This seems unlikely since it affects Dish, TWC and Adelphia customers viewing WJW-DT.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fox uses a splicing system at the affiliates to allow them to insert programming into the bitstream. It sounds like something in that splicing system is throwing your machines into a snit.



From the recent reports of the recordings being segmented at commercial breaks, I would have to agree with this assessment.


I doubt its a bug in the SARA & Passport firmwares AND the Dish software. Chances are the DVRs see it as a break in the digital stream and then stops recording. Once it sees the digital stream has been restored it starts recording again. This is one drawback I have found with these non-TiVo DVRs as the TiVo will have one "segment" even if there is a break in the signal.


To attempt to get clearer explanations of who, what and where, I think it would be best to respond again using the following format so that it can be easily compiled and submitted to WJW-DT.


STB: SA8300HD

Firmware: Passport

TV Service Provider: TWC Cincinnati

Station: WXIX-DT

Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? NO

What approximate date did this problem start occurring?

If you are experiencing segmenting problems during prime time HD programming, does it occur on the channel breaks?

If it is not occurring on the channel breaks please explain further:



I think its important to focus on one problem at a time. Its entirely possible that there is one root problem that presents it's self as several problems. If their engineers have a clear explanation of how the one problem is manifesting it's self, then they may have a good chance of solving the problem.


----------



## Inundated

At least SOME of this has to be with the 5.1/2.0/5.1 shift. Something in the switch causes these problems...hookbill getting commercial-only recordings would seem to prove it. FOX 8 is sending out something that is affecting not only the 8300, but my F5USB card.


(For what it's worth, I've also had the problem with OTA reception of WJW-DT on the F5USB. It is not an Adelphia problem per se, aside from however the 8300 reacts to it.)


hookbill - can you set up your 8300 to record FOX 8 News? Record a half hour or an hour or something, enough at least to get commercials. Since WJW-DT doesn't do 5.1 for its HD newscasts, I'm betting you'll have no problem...but I wanted to eliminate another data point.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This seems unlikely since it affects Dish, TWC and Adelphia customers viewing WJW-DT.



And as noted, it affects the Fusion5HDTV USB tuner, both OTA, and via QAM. (PDQ!) I haven't actually recorded anything off WJW-DT in HD using the tuner, but I know the result already, since the software itself freezes at these points and any recording would end because of that.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I doubt its a bug in the SARA & Passport firmwares AND the Dish software. Chances are the DVRs see it as a break in the digital stream and then stops recording. Once it sees the digital stream has been restored it starts recording again. This is one drawback I have found with these non-TiVo DVRs as the TiVo will have one "segment" even if there is a break in the signal.



The Fusion software apparently sees it as a break in the signal as well.


As for your questionnaire:

Code:


Code:


STB: Fusion HDTV5USB Gold
Firmware: Fusion tuner software
TV Service Provider: OTA, and Adelphia cable QAM (direct)
Station: WJW-DT
Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? YES
What approximate date did this problem start occurring? Don't remember, probably as long as I've had the Fusion (a few months)
If you are experiencing segmenting problems during prime time HD programming, does it occur on the channel breaks? Yes
If it is not occurring on the channel breaks please explain further:


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Could be. Yes, we are recording in HD. Should we call WJW?
> 
> 
> I recorded 4 court daytime tv shows. During that time I had my 8300 on either watching a recoding or watching live. All shows were on WJW-DT. On each occasion my viewing channel was switched to the recording show.
> 
> 
> There were no break ups on these shows however. They recorded in their entirety.
> 
> 
> Makes me wonder if this is a seperate issue.



Again, I'm not an expert at how Fox does this being NBC, however, when they run local shows their splicer probably sits on the upconverted input and doesn't do anything. During Fox network it would "splice in" the local station breaks to the network feed. You might be able to see a pattern you could pass on to WJW.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill - can you set up your 8300 to record FOX 8 News? Record a half hour or an hour or something, enough at least to get commercials. Since WJW-DT doesn't do 5.1 for its HD newscasts, I'm betting you'll have no problem...but I wanted to eliminate another data point.



I'll set it up to record the 5:00 to 6:00 news. I'll let you know the results.


----------



## hookbill

STB: SA8300HD

Firmware: SARA

TV Service Provider: ADELPHIA CLEVELAND SUBURB AREA

Station: WJW-DT

Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? YES

Started occuring Saturday, February 4 at 8:00 p.m.

It seems to be occuring during channel breaks.

With each break it is causing the STB to switch to the recorded channel.


This is what I will send. Now if someone wants to tell me where to send it to, please do.


----------



## hookbill

Inundated, I recorded FOX 8 News with no interruptions.


I also tested to see if the STB is changing channels on every recording by recording WEWS news on it's digital channel (not 705).


Unfortunately the STB changed to the recording channel. This confirms other observations made by blipszyc. And probably is an unrelated problem. Other then the fact that if a recording is breaking up and starting over it will change your viewing channel.










This sucks.


----------



## k2rj

Well, a similar thing happened to me tonight (Fox on 708 with Adelphia 8300HD.) I paused Bones at the beginning of the show and started to watch it about 18 minutes after the hour. I rewound it back and forth into AI a couple of times to make sure I had the stsrt of the show and all was working normally. Then when the first segment went into commercial break the picture went black. I pushed the rewind, FF and play buttons and nothing happened at first, and then it went to live TV and the status bar went red when I tried to rewind back into the show. It acted as if I had changed the channel (where the paused content is lost) but I hadn't touched the channel.


----------



## hookbill

I recorded Bones with a manual recording and got the same results. This blows my original guess that it may be corrupted IPG data. Lost seems to be recording fine, no breaks there. However Bones broke into recorded fragments at each local commercial break. In the end I deleted the commercials and ended up with 3 (at least at this time) recordings which has the entire show.


At 9:00 first the 8300 went to 705, then quickly to 708. Apparently this is going to be an ongoing problem that is seperate from the FOX issue.


Hopefully Adelphia and FOX will get it together soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/02/american_idol_b.html
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't had a chance to read through it all, so again I reiterate, this is puuurrreee speculation that these problem might be connected. Especially since they're from 2005. But they are perhaps indicative of Fox's propensity to screw with their stream headers.



I was really interested in this thread until I realized it's from last year.











I don't think it's relevant to what's going on now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At 9:00 first the 8300 went to 705, then quickly to 708. Apparently this is going to be an ongoing problem that is seperate from the FOX issue.
> 
> 
> Hopefully Adelphia and FOX will get it together soon.



Yeah, it does appear we have two distinct issues here:


* The file breakup, which appears to be related to my own experience with the FOX 2.0-to-5.1-to-2.0 problems on my Fusion tuner.

* The changing channels issue with the 8300 (I've never seen it on the 8000).


I hope all of this input gets to WJW's engineering folks at some point. I don't know if "WJW Engineer" is still around here.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, it does appear we have two distinct issues here:
> 
> 
> * The file breakup, which appears to be related to my own experience with the FOX 2.0-to-5.1-to-2.0 problems on my Fusion tuner.
> 
> * The changing channels issue with the 8300 (I've never seen it on the 8000).
> 
> 
> I hope all of this input gets to WJW's engineering folks at some point. I don't know if "WJW Engineer" is still around here.



True, although the channel changing issue doesn't seem to be related to Fox, I've had it happen when recording from other channels. Makes one wonder if (as has been suggested before) Adelphia has indeed rolled out a new, buggier version of software recently that used to tolerate whatever Fox's splicing but now isn't and also introduced the channel changing problem. Does anyone know their software versions from before a couple weeks ago? I just checked mine and I have --


PTV: OS, Home Server Edition 1.4

FLASH: 1.87.23.1

APP(s): vodlink v1.29.5.4, SARA v1.87.23.1


I also noticed on the "SARA Information" screen:


Global Cfg: Mon Feb 6 2006, 4:21:53 PM Est (0x43E7BDF1)


Which is about when my troubles began. Also on that screen I had *several* messages under "Software Anomalies" that read like:


WARNING! 060208.20:53[SARA Main]@CWatchTV.cpp:1372 (Exception -0x2801 in WatchTV Suspend())


Now this looks like your run-of-the-mill software error, very little usable information unless you have access to the application source code. However, those numbers in the front look to me like a timestamp for today (060208 = 2006 2/8) at 8:53 (20:53). There were SEVERAL around this time period. This time period, incidentally, corresponded with my recording of American Idol (Fox) which, no surprise, was mangled and all chunked up.


To check your own versions, hold the select button until the mail icon lights up, then press info. Use your remotes page +/- buttons to navigate the many screens. Can anyone confirm their software version numbers have or have not changed in the last couple weeks?


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same here. I am getting 7 bars solid on my signal strength meter, which is typical for WEAO. I am hoping this is a prelude to getting the PBS HD feed back up. Last I heard, they were hoping for some time in Jan. I have been waiting since I got my HDTV sometime in Nov to see PBS HD, since I am not one of the six or so people who can pull in WVIZ-DTs anemic signal.
> 
> 
> BTW, anyone in the North Canton area have trouble pulling in WKYC-DT last night? I was receiving it the night before, but nothing last night. This is the way WKYC-DT is for me - sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a pattern to the reception problems.



I don't know what your antenna setup is there but if you have a good outdoor OTA antenna in use, have you tried picking up PBS via WOUC-DT, channel 35 from Cambridge? I get a very strong signal from them here in Canton. They have the PBS-HD channel on 35.1 and a simulcast of their SD channel 44 on 35.2


I think at least part of the time the problems with WKYC-DT are being caused or exacerbated by the level of KDKA, Pittsburgh SD signals on channel 2 where WKYC's is being transmitted. Pittsburgh SD and DT channels are received here quite often and I've noticed KDKA channel 2 has considerable strength at times.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> True, although the channel changing issue doesn't seem to be related to Fox, I've had it happen when recording from other channels. Makes one wonder if (as has been suggested before) Adelphia has indeed rolled out a new, buggier version of software recently that used to tolerate whatever Fox's splicing but now isn't and also introduced the channel changing problem. Does anyone know their software versions from before a couple weeks ago? I just checked mine and I have --
> 
> 
> PTV: OS, Home Server Edition 1.4
> 
> FLASH: 1.87.23.1
> 
> APP(s): vodlink v1.29.5.4, SARA v1.87.23.1
> 
> 
> I also noticed on the "SARA Information" screen:
> 
> 
> Global Cfg: Mon Feb 6 2006, 4:21:53 PM Est (0x43E7BDF1)
> 
> 
> Which is about when my troubles began. Also on that screen I had *several* messages under "Software Anomalies" that read like:
> 
> 
> WARNING! 060208.20:53[SARA Main]@CWatchTV.cpp:1372 (Exception -0x2801 in WatchTV Suspend())
> 
> 
> Now this looks like your run-of-the-mill software error, very little usable information unless you have access to the application source code. However, those numbers in the front look to me like a timestamp for today (060208 = 2006 2/8) at 8:53 (20:53). There were SEVERAL around this time period. This time period, incidentally, corresponded with my recording of American Idol (Fox) which, no surprise, was mangled and all chunked up.
> 
> 
> To check your own versions, hold the select button until the mail icon lights up, then press info. Use your remotes page +/- buttons to navigate the many screens. Can anyone confirm their software version numbers have or have not changed in the last couple weeks?



I have the same version of SARA that you have. As far as the software anamolies go SA has said not to pay a great deal of attention to them. For example you can cause a warning just by hitting your pip. I've already pretty much researched those things and while the time may seem coincidental and grab your attention, my sources tell me that they are pretty meaningless.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to get a straight answer.
> 
> 
> I have Akron/Canton Time Warner cable. Basic, analog cable.
> 
> 
> I am considering buying a basic HDTV, and a remote STB that is QAM-capable -- specifically the LG LST-4200a.
> 
> 
> The question is, if I use my basic analog cable feed, will this tuner be able to pick-up the Local HD channels? I expect TWC's channels like ESPN-YD, etc., to be encrypted, but I'm talking about just the locals. I would really prefer NOT to install and OTA antenna if I don't have to.
> 
> 
> Depending on whom I've talked to, I get conflicting answers like: "Nah, you need a cable card or Time Warner's own digital STB to get ANY HD over the cable," or:
> 
> "No, by law, TWC can't encrypt local HD."
> 
> 
> Any thoughts or experiences out there ?
> 
> 
> Thx



I have a LG LST-4200a and it receives the digital/HD signals from Cleveland's channels 3,5,8.19 and 43 from TWC with no problem other than the channel numbers showing up in a strange way. The channels are NOT encrypted. The LG LST-4200a is a great QAM/OTA receiver and I would highly recommend it. The only thing I don't like about it is the type of on-screen signal strength meter that it uses. When it shows signal level of about 50%, it's actually about 100%. Forgot to mention that PBS 45/49 will probably be there along with the others mentioned above when they get their HD going again. I've been watching PBS-HD from WOUC-DT, Cambridge over the air since they went full power on channel 35, using the LG receiver. WVIZ, PBS in Cleveland is still on very low power and not received in this area.


----------



## bassguitarman

I think it is a buggy 8300 update also. Last night I was watching a recorded show when a scheduled recording started. It immediately switched to that channel it was recording . Neither was Fox or HD.


----------



## Pucky

Just to add my 2 cents, I had the same extremely frustrating experience with 24 on Monday, there was a maybe 25 minute recording, then 2 minutes, then 14 minutes, and then maybe 5-6 more short recordings--all of which made me miss the last 10 minutes which apparently didn't record. All the hiccups seemed to happen during commercial breaks.


I had no problem since then on either analog (FX), or ABCHD (Lost) or CBSHD (the Grammys). I have Adelphia, 8300HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it is a buggy 8300 update also. Last night I was watching a recorded show when a scheduled recording started. It immediately switched to that channel it was recording . Neither was Fox or HD.



Oh, yes yes yes, ladies and gentlemen we have a winner, and all of you others who said earlier "buggy update."


I can usually tell when an update comes in, but this one slipped by me.


SARA: as of last week version 1.87.23.1(I looked at the diagnostic screen - press and hold select then when the email lights up press info).


Checked today SARA version 1.88.15.3.


This is the cause of the changing channels to the "recording" channel. I'm sure.


The FOX thing may also be related. Something this software is having a problem handling that the old version didn't?


----------



## Pucky

I got a response from someone at Adelphia (through a friend I have there), and they said that "Fox is doing something non-standard with their data stream" and there are problems with Dish and TW Cable as well. They're aware of it and trying to figure out exactly what's wrong.


WJW Engineer: Any way that WJW can re-air 24, House, etc. so that those of us who were forced to miss it can actually catch up on the episodes?


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same here. I am getting 7 bars solid on my signal strength meter, which is typical for WEAO. I am hoping this is a prelude to getting the PBS HD feed back up. Last I heard, they were hoping for some time in Jan. I have been waiting since I got my HDTV sometime in Nov to see PBS HD, since I am not one of the six or so people who can pull in WVIZ-DTs anemic signal.
> 
> 
> BTW, anyone in the North Canton area have trouble pulling in WKYC-DT last night? I was receiving it the night before, but nothing last night. This is the way WKYC-DT is for me - sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a pattern to the reception problems.




What do you North Canton residents use to pull in WKYC-DT? I can never get it. Does anyone get Digital Channel 21 (NBC) out of Youngstown using OTA antenna?


----------



## hookbill

The diagnostic screen is indicating to me that my software was upgraded at around 4:30 pm on Monday, June 6 2006.


I think it was on Tuesday I started having problems with the channel changing to the recording station. This would fit after a reboot at night. But since the problem with FOX was first noticed by me anyways as of last Saturday, that would pretty much confirm what Pucky was saying and that it is indeed a FOX issue.


'Tis what happens when the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got a response from someone at Adelphia (through a friend I have there), and they said that "Fox is doing something non-standard with their data stream" and there are problems with Dish and TW Cable as well. They're aware of it and trying to figure out exactly what's wrong.
> 
> 
> WJW Engineer: Any way that WJW can re-air 24, House, etc. so that those of us who were forced to miss it can actually catch up on the episodes?



I finally got a tech over to my place and he confirms this as well. He said he's had about 20 calls regarding the problems we've been having and they had a meeting regarding it yesterday. At the meeting they were told that the company is messing with software versions for expected service upgrades / new features (e.g.VoIP) and have obviosly broken some things in the process. They are aware of the Fox-HD problems as well as the channel changing problem. The only solution for now is to wait until they push down a fixed software version. I just checked and saw that the software was upgraded from 1.87.23.1 to 1.88.15.3 sometime last night. Hookbill reported the same thing. Hopefully this will be the end of our problems.


Also, I mentioned before my Video OnDemand was shot, which he fixed. If you're getting the -65535 error message (he said most people should be after they found and fixed the "Free VoD" channels last week), all you have to do is go to the diagnostics screen (hold Select until the mail light lights up, then press Info), then navigate to the "VOD Information" screen via Page +/-. Your Service Group will probably be "Unavailable". If so, keep hitting the yellow A button until a number pops up there. Reboot your box (unplug) and you should be fixed.


Finally, he mentioned the TWC acquisition should happen late March. He said everyone is supposedly guaranteed a job but they'll have to apply to TWC as new employees (for HR and other book keeping reasons he said). That was originally scheduled to happen Feb 6, but has now been pushed to late-march. He also said to expect some new HD offerings soon.


----------



## hookbill

I want to report as well for the first time today my first court show, "The Peoples Court" recorded WITHOUT changing the tuner. These are good signs! (Please no comment on my daytime vise...I know, I know..)










Side comment: Adelphia, Voip? No thanks, I have Vonage. Just hope it doesn't cause me any problems.


----------



## terryfoster

Good to hear that Adelphia is aware of their firmware bug causing channel changing and hopefully they have/will provide(d) an update.


Now regarding the FOX recordings becoming segmented, so far we have three reports to send to WJW-DT. I know there are others experiencing this problem. If we can get more responses then it will be meaningful. (nudge, nudge those of you reporting from Dish and TWC NEO)
Code:


Code:


STB: SA8300HD
Firmware: SARA
TV Service Provider: ADELPHIA CLEVELAND SUBURB AREA
Station: WJW-DT
Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? YES
If you are experiencing segmenting problems during prime time HD programming, does it occur on the channel breaks? Yes
If it is not occurring on the channel breaks please explain further:

STB: Fusion HDTV5USB Gold
Firmware: Fusion tuner software
TV Service Provider: OTA, and Adelphia cable QAM (direct)
Station: WJW-DT
Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? YES
What approximate date did this problem start occurring? Don't remember, probably as long as I've had the Fusion (a few months)
If you are experiencing segmenting problems during prime time HD programming, does it occur on the channel breaks? Yes
If it is not occurring on the channel breaks please explain further:

STB: SA8300HD
Firmware: Passport
TV Service Provider: TWC Cincinnati
Station: WXIX-DT
Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? NO
What approximate date did this problem start occurring?
If you are experiencing segmenting problems during prime time HD programming, does it occur on the channel breaks?
If it is not occurring on the channel breaks please explain further:


----------



## DarkDogg

Thanks a lot for the report, Jax. Let's cross our fingers! And new HD channels would be fantastic. I'd love to see Smallville (WB) and TNT Cavs games in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DarkDogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for the report, Jax. Let's cross our fingers! And new HD channels would be fantastic. I'd love to see Smallville (WB) .



Don't count on that one, since WBNX does not have a digital station. No digital, no HD


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't count on that one, since WBNX does not have a digital station. No digital, no HD



And from what I heard from Adelphia, no Universal HD is planned currently...so we'll be missing out on a LOT of NBC Olympic coverage in HD this month. Time Warner and is adding Universal HD I think, at the last minute.


----------



## Ben Music

DarkDog,


Don't give up on Smallville in HD just yet. UPN and WBN are going to merge this fall since neither one is doing all that well on it's own. The combined station will be HD and have the best of both stations HD programing all rolled into one. That should solve the problem.


Ben Music


----------



## DarkDogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DarkDog,
> 
> 
> Don't give up on Smallville in HD just yet. UPN and WBN are going to merge this fall since neither one is doing all that well on it's own. The combined station will be HD and have the best of both stations HD programing all rolled into one. That should solve the problem.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Thanks guys. I just assumed that since some WB shows like Smallville are broadcast in HD in certain areas around the country, that it would eventually find its way to Cleveland. Since I am a video novice I figured maybe it was just a licensing issue with Adelphia. Thanks for clearing it up.


----------



## Monolithic

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced device to measure actual received HD bandwidth signals (from OTA)?


The quality of HD OTA varies significantly. CBS's major events seem to be broadcast at a higher standard (e.g., the Grammies, Letterman) while the regular programming is somewhat reduced in quality. I'd say subjectively that ABC comes in second with NBC third, and Fox last. I cannot receive enough digital information to adequately display shows like 24 without artifacting occurring to some degree. I believe this is tied to the bandwidth usage for each station (and may vary from show to show), thus, I'd like to be able to quantify what I'm seeing versus received bandwidth.


TIA


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't give up on Smallville in HD just yet. UPN and WBN are going to merge this fall since neither one is doing all that well on it's own. The combined station will be HD and have the best of both stations HD programing all rolled into one. That should solve the problem.



Well, the combined "CW Network" station will only be in HD if A) it's WUAB/43 or B) if it's WBNX/55, they put their digital transmitter up before the Fall.


It's mostly expected that 43 will be the station, primarily because it is owned by a group with a number of other UPN/WB affiliates (and CBS).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now regarding the FOX recordings becoming segmented, so far we have three reports to send to WJW-DT. I know there are others experiencing this problem. If we can get more responses then it will be meaningful. (nudge, nudge those of you reporting from Dish and TWC NEO)



I hope they figure this one out. It's nerve-wracking, and since my USB tuner is probably not widespread (it's new, for one, and a niche product), they probably wouldn't care if it was just affecting my tuner.


But it's good to know that SOMEONE is aware that FOX is sending out something non-standard data-stream wise, be it here or at the network level.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Monolithic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of a reasonably priced device to measure actual received HD bandwidth signals (from OTA)?
> 
> 
> The quality of HD OTA varies significantly. CBS's major events seem to be broadcast at a higher standard (e.g., the Grammies, Letterman) while the regular programming is somewhat reduced in quality.



I have heard that users of computer tuner cards are able to measure the digital stream with software.


Keep in mind the picture quality of a particular show is dependent on "Production Values". Some shows are designed to have a gitty/edgy picture while others look bright, crisp, clear, sharp, etc.


-Heh "Grammies"


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What do you North Canton residents use to pull in WKYC-DT? I can never get it. Does anyone get Digital Channel 21 (NBC) out of Youngstown using OTA antenna?



I'm a few miles north of you in Springfield Township and I'm picking up 21.1(NBC), 21.2(WB), and 33.1(ABC) from Youngstown with no problem using this small UHF antenna I got from Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search 

I have it mounted on my chimney and permanently pointed at Youngstown. I'm also using a Channel Master 0071DSB preamp I got from here: http://starkelectronic.com/allamps.htm 

Unfortunately 21.1 does not broadcast in 5.1 Dolby Digital like 3.1 does but 33.1 does while channel 5.1 does not. I watched the Super Bowl on 33.1 because the 5.1 audio was fantastic compared to the subdued two channel stereo on channel 5.1. It is good to have options.

Steve


----------



## Monolithic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have heard that users of computer tuner cards are able to measure the digital stream with software.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind the picture quality of a particular show is dependent on "Production Values". Some shows are designed to have a gitty/edgy picture while others look bright, crisp, clear, sharp, etc.
> 
> 
> -Heh "Grammies"



That might be the cheapest way - HD tuner card and some software. What I'm seeing isn't "production values" but lack of information that causes artifacting. Whether or not this holds true still remains to be seen. That's why I'm looking for a quantifiable method of determining artifacting versus bandwidth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DarkDogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. I just assumed that since some WB shows like Smallville are broadcast in HD in certain areas around the country, that it would eventually find its way to Cleveland. Since I am a video novice I figured maybe it was just a licensing issue with Adelphia. Thanks for clearing it up.



I'm sure your aware but in case you don't know reruns of Smallville are being shown right now on HDnet in HD. You can get your fix that way.


----------



## DarkDogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm sure your aware but in case you don't know reruns of Smallville are being shown right now on HDnet in HD. You can get your fix that way.



I am definitely aware! That's where I get my Kristin Kreuk fix. But damn, new episodes look like they're being transmitted from Venus from the looks of it. Talk about bad picture quality.


----------



## hookbill

I've noticed 1 minor thing and 1 major thing in this new firmware Adelphia has downloaded for the 8300. First when your selecting a show to be recorded "all episodes" the wording has changed a bit to "this time period anyday". But the big change is there is now a fourth speed on the fast forward, and I'm here to tell you that fourth speed is fast. It may be a bit too fast to forward through the commercials, but it will be great for other purposes.


----------



## extremegamer

Anyone know what channel 215 is on Comcast? It just showed up, no channel info and everything is coming soon according to the guide.


Knight Rider is on in HD right now.


EDIT - Nevermind, it's Universal HD!!! WOO HOO!!!!!! Went to Universal's website to see their schedule. Olympics in HD!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what your antenna setup is there but if you have a good outdoor OTA antenna in use, have you tried picking up PBS via WOUC-DT, channel 35 from Cambridge? I get a very strong signal from them here in Canton. They have the PBS-HD channel on 35.1 and a simulcast of their SD channel 44 on 35.2
> 
> 
> I think at least part of the time the problems with WKYC-DT are being caused or exacerbated by the level of KDKA, Pittsburgh SD signals on channel 2 where WKYC's is being transmitted. Pittsburgh SD and DT channels are received here quite often and I've noticed KDKA channel 2 has considerable strength at times.



I have an outdoor VHF/UHF antenna on a ~30 foot tower. Problem is, my rotor is currently not working and I don't feel like climbing up there in this weather to check it out.


I checked out WOUC-DTs signal pattern on the FCC website, and to my surprise, their signal pattern reaches all the way to the Summit/Stark County line. Their digital pattern actually reaches further than their analog pattern, which does not even reach the southern part of Canton. What part of Canton are you in?


I think you are right about WKYC-DT. Between the analog channel 2 in Pittsburgh and the one in Detroit, WKYC-DT doesn't stand a chance. Do you experience periods of solid reception and then periods of nothing at all like I do?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What do you North Canton residents use to pull in WKYC-DT? I can never get it. Does anyone get Digital Channel 21 (NBC) out of Youngstown using OTA antenna?



I have a VHF/UHF antenna on a ~30 foot tower. Don't know the make or model of the antenna (it was here when we bought the house 12 years ago). I also have an amplifier in the attic where the antenna lead comes in. Some kind of Radio Shack amp I think. I bought it years ago when I first hooked up to the antenna and was not satisfied with the reception.


My WKYC-DT signal is very inconsistent. I will receive it strongly for a few days and then I will receive absolutely nothing for several days. I have not seen their signal since last week.


My rotor is currently not working, but I did have it turned towards Y-town once and did lock onto WFMJ-DT (21 analog, 20 digital). They also broadcast the WB on subchannel 21-2. WFMJ-DT is by far the strongest Y-town station - you should be able to pull it in here with a decent antenna. You will need to point your antenna about 90 degrees east of where you point it for Cleveland reception.


The ABC in Y-town WYTV is digital on channel 36, but they have a much weaker signal. I don't remember seeing them when I captured WFMJ-DT.


The CBS in Y-town WKBN is still not broadcasting a digital signal.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've noticed 1 minor thing and 1 major thing in this new firmware Adelphia has downloaded for the 8300. First when your selecting a show to be recorded "all episodes" the wording has changed a bit to "this time period anyday". But the big change is there is now a fourth speed on the fast forward, and I'm here to tell you that fourth speed is fast. It may be a bit too fast to forward through the commercials, but it will be great for other purposes.



Well that's great actually, I've long wanted a way to quickly jump further into a recorded show. With my old ReplayTV I could simply jump to a particular minute offset. While it's not quite that good, this fourth speed certainly makes things easier. I didn't try to record anything on Fox today, did anybody run into problems during the network/local splices?


One nit-pick of the new software (and this is really really nit-picky) -- navigating the recorded shows guide seems to have a sluggish refresh rate. It's hard to describe, but pushing up or down one show at a time (as opposed to paging up or down) you can see one half of the screen go up and then the next half moves up about a half a second later. Also, paging up it seems to hit the top and won't go any further (whereas it used to cycle around endlessly, like it still does when paging down). That last one might be a feature though.


Anyway, I'm just happy I can record and watch recorded shows again without being interrupted.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One nit-pick of the new software (and this is really really nit-picky) -- navigating the recorded shows guide seems to have a sluggish refresh rate. It's hard to describe, but pushing up or down one show at a time (as opposed to paging up or down) you can see one half of the screen go up and then the next half moves up about a half a second later. Also, paging up it seems to hit the top and won't go any further (whereas it used to cycle around endlessly, like it still does when paging down). That last one might be a feature though.



I noticed that as well. I also think the recorded screen itself looks different, but I'm not certain about that.


It is wierd the way part of the index scrolls down just slightly before the second part does.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have an outdoor VHF/UHF antenna on a ~30 foot tower. Problem is, my rotor is currently not working and I don't feel like climbing up there in this weather to check it out.
> 
> 
> I checked out WOUC-DTs signal pattern on the FCC website, and to my surprise, their signal pattern reaches all the way to the Summit/Stark County line. Their digital pattern actually reaches further than their analog pattern, which does not even reach the southern part of Canton. What part of Canton are you in?
> 
> 
> I think you are right about WKYC-DT. Between the analog channel 2 in Pittsburgh and the one in Detroit, WKYC-DT doesn't stand a chance. Do you experience periods of solid reception and then periods of nothing at all like I do?



I'm using a Winegard VHF/UHF yagi antenna with preamplifier and rotor on a 50 foot tower here in the SW part of Canton. My reception of WKYC-DT is often plagued with frequent short dropouts...I don't think I've ever had periods where the signal goes away all together. Their signal is pretty strong so I think it's either co-channel interference or "ghosting" in the signal which causes most of the problem. I don't watch WKYC-DT very much as it's less hassle to watch WTOV-DT in Steubenville who is also an NBC affiliate or WFMJ-DT in Youngstown. Since you're fairly close to me you should be able to receive Cambridge and Steubenville once you're able to rotate your antenna.


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that as well. I also think the recorded screen itself looks different, but I'm not certain about that.
> 
> 
> It is wierd the way part of the index scrolls down just slightly before the second part does.



I noticed this tonight too. The Recorded shows section now scrolls the whole row, not just the title. Also noticed the 4th FF speed. WAY TOO FAST for commercials, but good for getting to the middle of a show that you didn't finish the night before.


As for the channel switch, that's been fixed, but OC on Fox still chunked. I can live with that as I actually prefer to kill all the commercials anyway!!


----------



## bassguitarman

I noticed the extra FF speed last night. I cant get into the info screen holding down the select button though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed the extra FF speed last night. I cant get into the info screen holding down the select button though.



You need to hold down the select button on the 8300 itself and then you will see an email flash on the display. Press the info button and you will see the diagnostics (info) screen.


----------



## hookbill

I got this email today from Adelphia:



*Hi Phil,


I did forward your email to Macedonia. The reason I am writing back is to tell you that you have been a tremendous help to us by uncovering two system problems. The Showtime On-Demand programming that was available to non-Showtime subscribers and the Fox Channel recording problems.


I am going to send you a few PPV coupons today and will see if there is any other little gift I can find for you.



Thanks so much for your help.




Rita*



Of course my main concern was the channel switching and FOX issue. I'll take what they give me, but hey...how about a months free service?


Greedy arn't I?


----------



## DarkDogg

Recorded The O.C. last night and it was still split into smaller pieces.


----------



## Telosian

Hookbill, good for you for getting such a nice response from your contact at Adelphia. I think it is great that, thanks to you, they have a line into AVS users who really function for them as high level Beta testers. I hope your contact makes a seamless move to the new company. I too like the four X FF and notice the lag in the menu screen. I am assuming the segmenting of programs is FOX cutting into the Network stream for local ads and that they know about the problem and that there is nothing we can really do about it besides wait it out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill, good for you for getting such a nice response from your contact at Adelphia. I think it is great that, thanks to you, they have a line into AVS users who really function for them as high level Beta testers. I hope your contact makes a seamless move to the new company. I too like the four X FF and notice the lag in the menu screen. I am assuming the segmenting of programs is FOX cutting into the Network stream for local ads and that they know about the problem and that there is nothing we can really do about it besides wait it out.



I hope she keeps her job too.










Yeah, as demonstrated in previous post this is not an Adelphia issue but is affecting other receivers as well. I'm pretty sure it will get resolved soon.


----------



## Telosian

One other improvement I noticed in the new software is an increase in the volume output on the 8300HD. I run a digital output to my reciever but also use the RCA analog outs to directly feed the TV. The volume on the analogs was always very low even when I had it maxed out on the 8300, causing me to turn the TV volume way up. Now I have the 8300 turned up (using the button controls on the front) and can adjust the TV volume to more of a midrange setting when I don't have the digital "big sound" fired up.


----------



## WJW Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope she keeps her job too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, as demonstrated in previous post this is not an Adelphia issue but is affecting other receivers as well. I'm pretty sure it will get resolved soon.



FYI, WJW engineering is now aware of this problem and is working with Adelphia, Fox Digital and others to get it sorted out. The details we find about it in your posts are of great help. Thanks.


----------



## DarkDogg

Thanks so much WJW Engineer. I know others have said it, but I think it's wonderful that some industry professionals are reading these forums and using the information to solve problems and get feedback.


----------



## terryfoster

I got a report from my parents:


STB: SA8300HD

Firmware: Passport

TV Service Provider: TWC NEO

Station: WJW-DT (O.C. recorded 2/9/2006)

Are you experiencing segmenting problems when watching prime time HD programming? NO

What approximate date did this problem start occurring?

If you are experiencing segmenting problems during prime time HD programming, does it occur on the channel breaks?

If it is not occurring on the channel breaks please explain further:


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, WJW engineering is now aware of this problem and is working with Adelphia, Fox Digital and others to get it sorted out. The details we find about it in your posts are of great help. Thanks.



And thank YOU for taking the time to reply. Now that we know everyone is on the same page on this we can feel confident it will be taken care of.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And thank YOU for taking the time to reply. Now that we know everyone is on the same page on this we can feel confident it will be taken care of.



Yes, thank you, WJW Engineering and all of you! I'm almost afraid to watch FOX network programming on my Fusion unit until this is fixed.










If I can help, let me know. There's a software program with the Fusion card that I believe can record raw data streams, though I don't know if it'd crash with the problem as well. I can upload such streams to you guys, if needed.


----------



## gass




rluyster said:


> I'm using a Winegard VHF/UHF yagi antenna with preamplifier and rotor on a 50 foot tower here in the SW part of Canton. My reception of WKYC-DT is often plagued with frequent short dropouts...
> 
> 
> Something must have happened to WKYC-DT - here in SW Portage I have had no trouble all season but two days ago I lost ALL signals from them. All other DT's are fine. I'm OTA.


----------



## hookbill

My SA 8300 recorded exactly 7 minutes of Ghost Whisperer and didn't record any of In Justice tonight.


I continue to have problems with this machine. I don't understand. New firmware yet I'm still having dropped/missed recordings. I don't know how much more of this I can take. Some trees in my backyard may have to be moved out for a dish.


----------



## extremegamer

Comcast has just added Fox Sports Ohio HD. I had no idea that channel was even coming! Cavs in HD!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Comcast has just added Fox Sports Ohio HD. I had no idea that channel was even coming! Cavs in HD!!



!!!!!


Not that we didn't know this was coming, eventually. Not only did FSN say they were eventually going to convert all their RSNs, but...this popped up on a local blog a month ago.


And now, that's been updated:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...efinition.html 


It appears they've gotten every cable system except the small ones...AND, of course, they don't have Adelphia.


----------



## ajstan99




gass said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm using a Winegard VHF/UHF yagi antenna with preamplifier and rotor on a 50 foot tower here in the SW part of Canton. My reception of WKYC-DT is often plagued with frequent short dropouts...
> 
> 
> Something must have happened to WKYC-DT - here in SW Portage I have had no trouble all season but two days ago I lost ALL signals from them. All other DT's are fine. I'm OTA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WKYC-DT dropped out for me here in SW Cuyahoga as well. All other channels I normally get were fine. Had to reposition my indoor antenna and all came in again, although WKYC appears to be about 10-15% weaker on the signal meter.
Click to expand...


----------



## JJkizak

No trouble with channel 3 HD, stretched SD, analog. Watched some of the Olympics in HD. (OTA)


JJK


----------



## DarkDogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It appears they've gotten every cable system except the small ones...AND, of course, they don't have Adelphia.



Why is Adelphia ALWAYS months behind everyone else local in picking up HD stations? Am I missing something? Why can my brother 4 minutes away get so many more HD stations (Euclid vs. Wickliffe) with his Comcast?


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia has been in bankruptcy for years. They are also in the middle of being broken up and sold. While I agree that it would be good to get new programming, I suspect that they have a number of layers that they have to go through to do anything.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DarkDogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why is Adelphia ALWAYS months behind everyone else local in picking up HD stations? Am I missing something? Why can my brother 4 minutes away get so many more HD stations (Euclid vs. Wickliffe) with his Comcast?



Because Adelphia sucks.










Last night was the last straw for me. I called D* and I'm having them come out with a HD-DVR. I'll worry about getting locals later, I know there is a way to OTA it but at least I'll have a dependable DVR. I'm so sick of the 8300.


I'm going to find someplace to put that dish even if I gotta cut down some trees this summer. I've missed D*, never had the problems I have with Adelphia. I'd rather have a decent digital picture then Adelphia's chopped up HD with poor sound (beeps, missed sound, etc.)


Feb. 14 in the am the dude comes out (or dudes). Bye Bye, Adelphia.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night was the last straw for me. I called D* and I'm having them come out with a HD-DVR. I'll worry about getting locals later, I know there is a way to OTA it but at least I'll have a dependable DVR. I'm so sick of the 8300.



Sorry to hear that hookbill, but believe me, I empathize with your frustration. I would've made the switch long ago if I could.


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Because Adelphia sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night was the last straw for me. I called D* and I'm having them come out with a HD-DVR. I'll worry about getting locals later, I know there is a way to OTA it but at least I'll have a dependable DVR. I'm so sick of the 8300.



I don't think there is a way to win with either cable or satellite. Things work for me now, so I'm staying put.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Because Adelphia sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night was the last straw for me. I called D* and I'm having them come out with a HD-DVR. I'll worry about getting locals later, I know there is a way to OTA it but at least I'll have a dependable DVR. I'm so sick of the 8300.



Hookbill,


If you have a choice, make sure you get the HR-20 DVR. It's the one that will support the Mpeg-4 locals that D* will be offering any day now for Cleveland. Might be the answer to your prayers!


And D* just announced that TNT-HD will be live on Friday. That brings the total up to 9 HD channels, I believe, including HBO and Showtime if you subscribe to them.


Plus, they also offer CD-USA that is broadcasting part-time in HD with some music programming.


It's not a bad package, really. And one of these days I'll get around to getting a DVR.


Oh, and the locals are really easy. If you've got an antenna, it's plug and play!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> If you have a choice, make sure you get the HR-20 DVR. It's the one that will support the Mpeg-4 locals that D* will be offering any day now for Cleveland. Might be the answer to your prayers!
> 
> 
> And D* just announced that TNT-HD will be live on Friday. That brings the total up to 9 HD channels, I believe, including HBO and Showtime if you subscribe to them.
> 
> 
> Plus, they also offer CD-USA that is broadcasting part-time in HD with some music programming.
> 
> 
> It's not a bad package, really. And one of these days I'll get around to getting a DVR.
> 
> 
> Oh, and the locals are really easy. If you've got an antenna, it's plug and play!



I didn't know that machine existed, thanks for the info. My main concern right now is how it's going to work with Vonage. Supposedly the guy is going to have a wireless adapter and I'll be able to use my Vonage with that. She even told me the guy would put an antenna on the roof "If he has one".










I tried to get D* when I first got here and the guy looked around and said too many trees. Well, my neighbor has Dish and just as many trees as I do. I think he didn't want to put the effort into it and I was just moved in and wanted some kind of TV so I called Adelphia.


If the guy does a good job I'll tip him. If he gives me a bad time I'll just get someone else, I'm gonna get it done and done right.


----------



## ZManCartFan

It doesn't take much a break through the trees to pick up the signal. My last house actually had the dish on the backside of the roof and pointed through some trees almost through the house. I managed an average signal of about 95%.


Of course you need the multi-dish to pick up the HD channels, and that does take a bit more clearance than the standard round one. The guy that comes out should be able to use a little signal meter to check around the property. Hopefully he can find someplace good for you.


Truthfully, I've been a D* subscriber for about 7 years now, and I've never looked back. We even moved with it, and I didn't even bother to check out the new location's local cable offering much. I've just been happy.


----------



## Inundated

Another data point in the Great FOX HD Breakup Sweepstakes:


Watching FOX HD programming LIVE on my 8000HD DVR, it actually blanks the screen when going into a local break! (Blank=grey) It comes back when FOX returns to network.


But after that, if you try to use the DVR's live buffer to go back, you won't be able...it treats the live return as a new program. This is consistent with those who've recorded FOX and had these problems.


(Of course, since it's a DVR, which by definition rolls a record buffer during "live TV", I don't know if it'd do the same on an HD box that does not have a DVR.)


----------



## gzath

OTA Olympics are looking great!


As I went to ABC 5.1 though (Green Mile is on) I noticed the sound is horribly out of sync. This was going on the other night, too.


Any1 else notice this?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OTA Olympics are looking great!
> 
> 
> As I went to ABC 5.1 though (Green Mile is on) I noticed the sound is horribly out of sync. This was going on the other night, too.
> 
> 
> Any1 else notice this?



I also noticed the audio/video sync problem on WEWS-DT tonight during the Green Mile. Analog WEWS did not appear to have this problem. Audio appeared to be nearly a full second behind the video.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> If you have a choice, make sure you get the HR-20 DVR. It's the one that will support the Mpeg-4 locals that D* will be offering any day now for Cleveland. Might be the answer to your prayers!



Last I heard, D* was saying the HR-20 would be released mid 2006. Has that changed?


----------



## RussTC3

I have a question for you all if you don't mind. I thought I'd ask it here instead of creating a new thread, if a new thread should be created I will.


Currently I've been using a regular indoor antenna to pick up some Locals. I've been surprised how well they have come in, considering I'm like 40 miles from the towers. My zip code is 44646, and I'm able to pick up the following channels:


WEWS-DT - 5.1

WJW-DT - 8.1

WDLI-DT - 39.1-.5

WUAB-DT - 43.1

The Tube - 43.2

WEAO-DT - 50.1-.4


It's amazing that I've been able to pick those channels up since I'm so far away from the channels (especially WEWS and WJW), but I have. However, now that the Olympics are on, I REALLY want to see them in HD and I can't do that unless I pull in the NBC station (also wouldn't mind having CBS). So I need you all to recommend me an antenna (I'm assuming it has to be an outdoor one because the NBC station is VHF, which is the most difficult to pull in right?)


So, what are my options? You can recommend Radio Shack, Online, whatever.


Thanks in advance everyone!


----------



## Inundated

The ongoing WJW-DT problem during FOX HD is now not only disrupting live viewing. It's messing up live viewing/the DVR buffer ON OTHER CHANNELS!


Whatever glitch it is that's causing the problem...even tuning my 8000HD box to another channel (HD, SD, DT, analog, doesn't matter)...the "live buffer" is trashed. If you try using the REW key or the button that's supposed to take you 8 seconds (?) backwards in the live TV buffer, you can't access ANYTHING, no matter how long you're tuned to the new channel. The screen blanks (grey) and the buffer indicator shows there's nothing in there, even if you've been watching it for 5 minutes.


I can only assume that it's the FOX HD bug causing this, as it happened after the above described problems on FOX HD earlier tonight. Turning the 8000HD on and off and on again does nothing. I had to physically UNPLUG the 8000HD and reboot it to regain my "live buffer'.


So, not only is the FOX HD problem now disrupting live viewing of itself (on a DVR with a continuously running buffer), it's now disrupting OTHER CHANNELS.


Until this is fixed, I will have to boycott FOX HD on the 8000HD, frankly.


I appreciate that WJW's engineering staff and Adelphia are working together on this problem, and I hope it is resolved soon. But I can't keep rebooting my 8000HD, even IF it makes it through live FOX HD programming.


----------



## hookbill

We all had that problem before the upgrade. All I had to do was return to FOX for a few seconds and then go back to the channel I wanted to watch. Irritating isn't it?










Is it causing problems OTA?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We all had that problem before the upgrade. All I had to do was return to FOX for a few seconds and then go back to the channel I wanted to watch. Irritating isn't it?



Going back and forth didn't fix it for me, at least tonight.











> Quote:
> Is it causing problems OTA?



I haven't been watching OTA in a while. My Fusion5HDTV USB box is downstairs on the desktop, hooked into Adelphia. I have my old US Digital box up here, but the antenna position right now needs to be moved (the extension cable I used is downstairs to feed the F5USB). I haven't really watched WJW-DT OTA even though I can get it with the antenna pointed where it is now.


----------



## Wishfull1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a question for you all if you don't mind. I thought I'd ask it here instead of creating a new thread, if a new thread should be created I will.
> 
> 
> Currently I've been using a regular indoor antenna to pick up some Locals. I've been surprised how well they have come in, considering I'm like 40 miles from the towers. My zip code is 44646, and I'm able to pick up the following channels:
> 
> 
> WEWS-DT - 5.1
> 
> WJW-DT - 8.1
> 
> WDLI-DT - 39.1-.5
> 
> WUAB-DT - 43.1
> 
> The Tube - 43.2
> 
> WEAO-DT - 50.1-.4
> 
> 
> It's amazing that I've been able to pick those channels up since I'm so far away from the channels (especially WEWS and WJW), but I have. However, now that the Olympics are on, I REALLY want to see them in HD and I can't do that unless I pull in the NBC station (also wouldn't mind having CBS). So I need you all to recommend me an antenna (I'm assuming it has to be an outdoor one because the NBC station is VHF, which is the most difficult to pull in right?)
> 
> 
> So, what are my options? You can recommend Radio Shack, Online, whatever.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance everyone!



I'm just north of you in Canal Fulton. I went to Lowes in Massillon and picked up a Channel Master 3018 with a CM3041DSB preamp and put it in my 2nd story attic. Its a VHF/UHF combo antenna. I get all the channels you listed, plus WOIO with high 80's to 90's signal strength. WKYC-DT is a tough one for me though. I can't get it during the day, but at night I can usually get about 55 on the signal with some blocking and lockups. I would think if you were outside on a tower or pole, you would be much better off than me.


Cheers


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last I heard, D* was saying the HR-20 would be released mid 2006. Has that changed?



H20 is out. The H20-250 DVR is not and can be expected this summer


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last I heard, D* was saying the HR-20 would be released mid 2006. Has that changed?



As far as I know, it's been available for a few months now. Over in the HD hardware forum, there are hundreds of posts from people who have been using it. It looks like some people have received it through D* as part of an upgrade, and others have had to purchase it. D* is currently offering a $200 rebate toward the purchase of one if you pledge a 2-year commitment to service.


I'm just wondering when Cleveland's locals will be available in HD. Supposedly it's going to be in the first quarter of 2006, but there is no official confirmation of that - again, as far as I know.


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We all had that problem before the upgrade. All I had to do was return to FOX for a few seconds and then go back to the channel I wanted to watch. Irritating isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it causing problems OTA?



OTA is fine. The only recent issue was the other day (which I posted on) when 8.1 was down but I could get WJW on 31.1. Other than that, no problems.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> H20 is out. The H20-250 DVR is not and can be expected this summer



So what's the difference? Is it just a bigger hard drive?


----------



## jtscherne

Roger Brown had a brief blurb about the Indians broadcasts in today's Plain Dealer. The new GM states that agreements should be signed with everyone by opening day, but not necessarily by the first spring training broadcast. My only concern is that Brown sort of implied that the TWC takeover of Adelphia would solve the issue with Adelphia, which I think is too much of an assumption. So far, most reports have the takeover happening in late spring, well after opening day.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as I know, it's been available for a few months now. Over in the HD hardware forum, there are hundreds of posts from people who have been using it. It looks like some people have received it through D* as part of an upgrade, and others have had to purchase it. D* is currently offering a $200 rebate toward the purchase of one if you pledge a 2-year commitment to service.
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering when Cleveland's locals will be available in HD. Supposedly it's going to be in the first quarter of 2006, but there is no official confirmation of that - again, as far as I know.



I don't see it on the Circuit City on line add, but that is definitely the offer that I received. I'm looking forward to it.


I asked the rep to look into Cleveland locals in HD and as of right now we are not on any list that she could see. You know they gotta take care of L.A., NY, etc. first. Per usual, we are one of the last.


It could be worst, we could be in Cincinnati.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't see it on the Circuit City on line add, but that is definitely the offer that I received. I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> 
> I asked the rep to look into Cleveland locals in HD and as of right now we are not on any list that she could see. You know they gotta take care of L.A., NY, etc. first. Per usual, we are one of the last.
> 
> 
> It could be worst, we could be in Cincinnati.



Believe they are currently implementing top 15 or maybe it was 25. When I saw the lists we were one of the first couple markets below the cut. We should be implemented before or during this Spring.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what's the difference? Is it just a bigger hard drive?



H20 is not a DVR. H20-250 is the replacement for the HD Tivo. Expected out in the third quarter.


----------



## Wishfull1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> H20 is not a DVR. H20-250 is the replacement for the HD Tivo. Expected out in the third quarter.



The new mpeg4 HD recorder from D* will be called the HR-20. It will run the same DVR+ software that the new SD R-15 DVR from D* does. Not TiVo. I concur with 3Q.


Cleveland mpeg4 HD locals should be live in May. Any new installs from this point on, will get the new AT9 5 sat dish. The H20 can be used now with the 3 phase dish, although you will not get the mpeg4 locals without the AT9.


H10 (D* HD receiver mpeg2)

H10-250 (D* HD DVR w/ TiVo mpeg2)

H20 (D* HD receiver mpeg4)

HR-20 (D* HD DVR+ mpeg4)


Cheers


----------



## Wishfull1

Rumor on the next D* mpeg4 locals:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=52869 


I have this information on a reliable source.


The following markets are scheduled to launch in April 2006:


Seattle, Minneapolis, Miami, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego, Charlotte, Hartford, Nashville, West Palm Beach & Birmingham.


The following markets are scheduled to launch in May 2006:


Phoenix, Cleveland, Denver, Orlando, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Raleigh - Durham, Kansas City, Columbus (OH), Milwaukee, Salt Lake City & Fresno.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Thanks, Wishfull1. That's great info.


Hookbill, sounds like you may not get the hardware that you ultimately need right away. I hope you don't get screwed in the long run. I wonder if it would be better to take the current DVR now in hopes that D* will provide a replacement when the locals go live (hopefully) in May? Or maybe it would be better to take the H20 (non-DVR) now in hopes that D* has a special offer on the DVR once it's available....


Hmm. Makes me glad that I'm sticking with my old Sony HD-200 until all of this is sorted out. As much as I want a DVR, I've been willing to wait until I know I can get exactly what I want.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, Wishfull1. That's great info.
> 
> 
> Hookbill, sounds like you may not get the hardware that you ultimately need right away. I hope you don't get screwed in the long run. I wonder if it would be better to take the current DVR now in hopes that D* will provide a replacement when the locals go live (hopefully) in May? Or maybe it would be better to take the H20 (non-DVR) now in hopes that D* has a special offer on the DVR once it's available....
> 
> 
> Hmm. Makes me glad that I'm sticking with my old Sony HD-200 until all of this is sorted out. As much as I want a DVR, I've been willing to wait until I know I can get exactly what I want.



Yeah, I'm having second thoghts. Matter of fact I'm on hold with Direct TV right now because I can't figure out an easy way to hook up my Vonage with D*. I know I really only need to make the initial call but I would have to configue it through my computer, and even then who knows if it would work.


I'm in the process of cancelling, they are going to try their best to retain me. Pretty difficult to do since I don't have it. I feel very disappointed.


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wishfull1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm just north of you in Canal Fulton. I went to Lowes in Massillon and picked up a Channel Master 3018 with a CM3041DSB preamp and put it in my 2nd story attic. Its a VHF/UHF combo antenna. I get all the channels you listed, plus WOIO with high 80's to 90's signal strength. WKYC-DT is a tough one for me though. I can't get it during the day, but at night I can usually get about 55 on the signal with some blocking and lockups. I would think if you were outside on a tower or pole, you would be much better off than me.
> 
> 
> Cheers



Cool thanks for the information. Another question though, do I need the preamp?


Also, I looked at that Channel Master model (CM3018) and also CM3679 which is rated for longer UHF reception (50 instead of 35).


Would I be okay with the CM3018, or would I need the CM3679? Also, would be a comparable Radio Shack antenna? Or isn't there one?


Thanks again.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wishfull1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The new mpeg4 HD recorder from D* will be called the HR-20. It will run the same DVR+ software that the new SD R-15 DVR from D* does. Not TiVo. I concur with 3Q.
> 
> 
> Cleveland mpeg4 HD locals should be live in May. Any new installs from this point on, will get the new AT9 5 sat dish. The H20 can be used now with the 3 phase dish, although you will not get the mpeg4 locals without the AT9.
> 
> 
> H10 (D* HD receiver mpeg2)
> 
> H10-250 (D* HD DVR w/ TiVo mpeg2)
> 
> H20 (D* HD receiver mpeg4)
> 
> HR-20 (D* HD DVR+ mpeg4)
> 
> 
> Cheers



Assume you are correct on HR-20 vs. HR20-250; although that is how I have seen it designated on several forums.


By replacement for HD Tivo; I meant that the HD Tivo (mpeg2) will basically become obsolete within a year or two and the HR 20 will be D*'s replacement/standard DVR. I was aware that unfortunately it will not run the Tivo software.


Thanks for the detailed info.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Is there anybody on the west side of Cleveland with Comcast able to pick up Universal HD? I called Comcast and then said I should be getting it. My guess is the folks here just haven't turned it on or plugged it in because the east side is getting it.


----------



## hookbill

I spoke with a supervisor at D* and she indicated what others have said: It's coming to Cleveland in a few months (local HD). She told me at that time they would be swapping out HD recorders.


Whether that would be free or not, I don't know. I'm going to hold off until then because that DVR will not require a phone line....and just in case I don't get stuck paying for 2 DVR's.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I spoke with a supervisor at D* and she indicated what others have said: It's coming to Cleveland in a few months (local HD). She told me at that time they would be swapping out HD recorders.
> 
> 
> Whether that would be free or not, I don't know. I'm going to hold off until then because that DVR will not require a phone line....and just in case I don't get stuck paying for 2 DVR's.



Sounds like a good plan, Hookbill. As much as I like D* and I like to see others make the switch, I can't fault you for waiting at this point. I think I'll do the same. Something tells me there may be some "special offers" for folks to make the switch when the HD locals go live.


At first I was confused about why you were concerned about your Vonage service. But then it hit me you were concerned because of the "necessity" of a phone line for the D* boxes. I haven't had my boxes plugged into the phone in 5 years. They may tell you differently, but I don't see why you need it. I don't do PPV, but when I have in the past, I've just logged into my account online and ordered it. It was the same price, and the movie started instantaneously. Unless they've changed something, the phone line is nothing more than a convenience.


Although I have heard that some boxes pop up the caller ID info on screen when somebody calls.


----------



## Telosian

Hookbill, I am sorry you are fed up with Adelphia. I am very anxious to hear how you like the D* quality. I was told cable had better bandwidth so that's why I went with cable. This may or may not be true. I have not had as many problems with the 8300 as you have. Please let us know about your new picture quality, features, channels, DVR operation etc. If it is substantially better I will follow your lead as I really want the best I can get.


----------



## Inundated

Two things:


1) About that Roger Brown column...he's not quoting anyone directly on the Adelphia thing, he's just stating fact.


I have bugged the Indians about it, and found out from the Indians.com beat writer that they are indeed aware of that situation, though he couldn't give me any information about games being available before the merger. From what they're saying in this column, figuring that the other contracts will NOT all get hammered out by the time Spring Training games are airing, they may just wait it out with Adelphia/TWC.


That's too bad, since IMHO it'd probably be a rather simple process to air the games and worry about the financials later (since TWC will take over at some point). Why is it worth bothering figuring out the money for a half-dozen or so games, when the system will be under control of the existing contract holder at some point anyway? It baffles me. Anyway, I've made my feelings known.


2) D* just launched that Spaceway satellite and put it into orbit this past week or so. One presumes that's where Cleveland's HD locals will come from, so May is probably about right.


----------



## bassguitarman

to Hookbill

How do you do high speed internet and Vonage over satelite

D* is short for what, DishTV ?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> to Hookbill
> 
> How do you do high speed internet and Vonage over satelite
> 
> D* is short for what, DishTV ?



While you can do high speed internet through a satellite, it's not a particularly practical solution. More often the case is (like mine) that you order your TV through the satellite and maintain a separate account through a high-speed terrestrial provider like your cable service or DSL provider.


D* is short for DirecTV. You may also see E* around here, which is short for EchoStar, now known as Dish Network.


----------



## rlockshin

Anybody else notice Channel 5 WEWS 5-1 Hd video is out of sync with the audio?

I have 2 different Direct Tv receivers and both have same problem. It is awful!!


----------



## Inundated

Just tuned to Desperate Housewives on WEWS-DT (Adelphia cable 705). The video and audio are definitely out of sync, horribly! It's not just DirecTV. Yet another WEWS-DT problem.


----------



## rlockshin

Different Topic:

Some of you long time posters may remember when Cleveland was visited by a super tech to do ISF calibrations. Any chance of getting him back in the area?

it has been about 2 years since he was here or is there someone better now.

I have 2 Hd sets icluding a 37 Panasonic plasma and could use his services.

I know that we needed a cerain number of appointments to bring him hre.

Maybe others could use a tune up or a real calibration.

Thanks


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Different Topic:
> 
> Some of you long time posters may remember when Cleveland was visited by a super tech to do ISF calibrations. Any chance of getting him back in the area?
> 
> it has been about 2 years since he was here or is there someone better now.
> 
> I have 2 Hd sets icluding a 37 Panasonic plasma and could use his services.
> 
> I know that we needed a cerain number of appointments to bring him hre.
> 
> Maybe others could use a tune up or a real calibration.
> 
> Thanks



I'm not sure who you are talking about, but I've had Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio/Video Consultants do my Sammy DLP. If you'll check lines 6 and 7 of the tour list you'll see he comes to our area twice a year in May and November. Gregg is a good guy, is punctual and knows his stuff. I feel confident in recommending him.


----------



## Inundated

For what it's worth (sorry, I don't know what an ISF means): WEWS-DT went to SD for ABC shortly after I posted the above.


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For what it's worth (sorry, I don't know what an ISF means): WEWS-DT went to SD for ABC shortly after I posted the above.



It was outta sync Saturday night, too, while the Green Mile was on.


Guess the weekend crew did their job of stalling a fix until the regulars show up for the weekday shifts.


...and on a lighter note. Funny as hell to watch the East Coasters whine about their snow and seeing the national exposure. Hey, come to the snow belt during one of our "normal" Winters and get that week in and week out.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was outta sync Saturday night, too, while the Green Mile was on.
> 
> 
> Guess the weekend crew did their job of stalling a fix until the regulars show up for the weekday shifts.



If it's not one thing with WEWS-DT, it's another. If it's not ghosty upconverted analog, it's power problems. If it's not power problems, it's out of sync audio. Yipes!


And great comment on the snowstorm. I was thinking earlier today that two feet of snow would be considered "maybe a LITTLE heavier than usual" up in Chardon.


----------



## Inundated

I just realized that THREE out of the five major commercial DTV signals in the Cleveland market are having technical problems at the same time.


In addition to the Problem Of The Week over at WEWS, WKYC-DT's audio has had a crackling on it during NBC HD 5.1 programming (check out the Olympics for a good listen!), and the WJW-DT problems have been outlined here in detail and are being worked on.


Oddly enough, that only leaves one of the most technologically-slow broadcasters in the market, Raycom's WOIO/19-WUAB/43, with no apparent DTV problems on either signal. How odd is THAT?


Heck, if you include the non-commercial outlets, they're not 100% either. WVIZ/25 is still struggling to get its full-power stick up in North Royalton (spring '06??), so they're still on the peashooter on their Brookpark Road building. And WEAO/49 has still, last I looked, not been able to put up HDTV programming on 50-1 (shouldn't it be 49-1?) at night.


Did someone put a DTV curse on the Cleveland TV market?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> to Hookbill
> 
> How do you do high speed internet and Vonage over satelite
> 
> D* is short for what, DishTV ?



High speed internet can be accomplished with "DirecWay" service provided by D*. While this does provide service that is indpendent of dial-up, dsl, and cable (used to require an additional connection); it has some major drawbacks. You will not be able to use your office's VPN over DirecWay, gaming is out of the question, and VoIP (Vonage) is a pipe dream. The amount of time/latency for your request/transmission to be sent up to the satellite is too great for some of the web's additional features. I have also heard that DirecWay service works with a kind of "bit-bucket" system. Where you have only so much data you can transmit within a certain timeframe at the full bandwidth before they drop you to dialup speeds. This limit is not generally hit by normal users, people that download lots and lots of movies, games, programs will hit this limit.


I'm pretty sure its possible to get high speed internet from your normal outlet without subbing for that company's major service (phone/cable-tv).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> to Hookbill
> 
> How do you do high speed internet and Vonage over satelite
> 
> D* is short for what, DishTV ?



I'm keeping my cable internet when I switch. Adelphia is good for something!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At first I was confused about why you were concerned about your Vonage service. But then it hit me you were concerned because of the "necessity" of a phone line for the D* boxes. I haven't had my boxes plugged into the phone in 5 years. They may tell you differently, but I don't see why you need it. I don't do PPV, but when I have in the past, I've just logged into my account online and ordered it. It was the same price, and the movie started instantaneously. Unless they've changed something, the phone line is nothing more than a convenience.



Really, it's only on the DVR and just the first call. Matter of fact I found a walk around it in the TiVo Community Forum but the problem is I would have to set it all up on a laptop right by the machine and run a certain cable from where the phone line plugs in. It would work but an installer will balk at doing the installation the moment I tell him what I'm up to.


The new DVR which will handle the locals will not require a call in. It's software is not TiVo based.


I could also call Alltell and have them connect a basic service for one month and cancel, but I'd probably get hit with "connection fees" (somebody turns a switch). It just makes more sense to wait and hope for the best until then.


----------



## terryfoster

I have AT&T's Callvantage Service (VoIP) and my TiVo dials up without question. It may be worth a shot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have AT&T's Callvantage Service (VoIP) and my TiVo dials up without question. It may be worth a shot.



It has to do with the type of connection you have on your VoIP. Mine does not use house phone lines, it works off the wireless router. On TiVo you have an active USB port that you can use to make it work in the situation I describe but D-TiVo's do not have active USB ports.


Plain and simple unless I hire a private installer D*'s contracted installers will not install into my house without a landline phone with the current TiVo based DVR.


Of course there is always install myself, but I'm not getting up on that roof.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In addition to the Problem Of The Week over at WEWS, WKYC-DT's audio has had a crackling on it during NBC HD 5.1 programming (check out the Olympics for a good listen!), and the WJW-DT problems have been outlined here in detail and are being worked on.



Actually I'm kind of glad to hear you report this because I thought it was my SA 8300 that was causing those cracking and popping noises.


Yes, it's only on WKYC-DT and it is annoying as heck. One of my parrots has began to immitate that sound now, which makes it even more annoying.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just tuned to Desperate Housewives on WEWS-DT (Adelphia cable 705). The video and audio are definitely out of sync, horribly! It's not just DirecTV. Yet another WEWS-DT problem.



I had the same problem with my OTA signal all day on 5-1 from the NBA game all the way through evening programming.


----------



## ClevelandJax

For what it's worth, I noticed last night that v1.88.15.3 on the 8300 adds the ability to "Start From Beginning" of a show you're currently recording. You used to have to manually rewind to the beginning of inprogress recordings. whoopee.


Oh, WJW-DT is STILL chunking up. I'll be asking Adelphia for compensation for, at least, my DVR rental fee as this is going on two weeks. I suggest others do the same and maybe we'll really get their attention this time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I noticed last night that v1.88.15.3 on the 8300 adds the ability to "Start From Beginning" of a show you're currently recording. You used to have to manually rewind to the beginning of inprogress recordings. whoopee.
> 
> 
> Oh, WJW-DT is STILL chunking up. I'll be asking Adelphia for compensation for, at least, my DVR rental fee as this is going on two weeks. I suggest others do the same and maybe we'll really get their attention this time.




Good catch. That will be useful anyway.


I'm really hard pressed to complain about the WJW thing. The fact that it totally missed a recording and did a partial on another, neither on WJW....That really pisses me off.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For what it's worth (sorry, I don't know what an ISF means): WEWS-DT went to SD for ABC shortly after I posted the above.



ISF stands for Imaging Science Foundation. They teach and certify the professionals that will tweak a display to the nth degree(set contrast, brightness, color balance to 6500K, grayscale tracking, etc). Their website is here: http://www.imagingscience.com/


----------



## Wishfull1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool thanks for the information. Another question though, do I need the preamp?
> 
> 
> Also, I looked at that Channel Master model (CM3018) and also CM3679 which is rated for longer UHF reception (50 instead of 35).
> 
> 
> Would I be okay with the CM3018, or would I need the CM3679? Also, would be a comparable Radio Shack antenna? Or isn't there one?
> 
> 
> Thanks again.



You might be ok without the preamp. I added mine just to try and get WKYC-DT. WOIO if I remember was a little weak without, but I did get them.


I would think the CM3018 would do alright if you were high enough and outside. The price isn't bad ($60 at Lowes). You could also step up to the CM3020 ($100 at Lowes). That will get you 60 UHF and 100 VHF. Put that on a rotor and you should be able to get all kinds of stuff.


The Radioshack similar antennas would probably be the VU-90XR and the VU190XR.


Cheers


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I'm kind of glad to hear you report this because I thought it was my SA 8300 that was causing those cracking and popping noises.
> 
> 
> Yes, it's only on WKYC-DT and it is annoying as heck. One of my parrots has began to immitate that sound now, which makes it even more annoying.



I don't know if it's Adelphia or OTA, as I can't really get WKYC-DT reliably over-air. But others have complained about it in the HDTV Programming NBC Olympics threads, so it's not just you and I.


As far as your phone line dilemma goes - FYI, the DirecTivo does not require a phone line for the TiVo part. Those units get the programming data from the satellite, as opposed to the Series 1/2 standalones, which get it via phone line (or Internet, in S2's case).


The phone line is only needed for the same reason it's needed for other DirecTV stuff, ordering PPV and the like.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The phone line is only needed for the same reason it's needed for other DirecTV stuff, ordering PPV and the like.



Yes, I understand that. But...the DVR does have to make 1 phone call to initialize it. At the beginning. And installers will not install unless you can make that call.


It would go like this: Installer: I'm here it install your D*. Where's a phone line?


Me: right here. Installer: no dial tone. Me: yeah. Installer: Can't install without a phone line. The end.


Once they get the new non TiVo DVR's for local area HD, I'll be fine. That is if I can get a signal through the trees, which will be around by that time.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Once they get the new non TiVo DVR's for local area HD, I'll be fine. That is if I can get a signal through the trees, which will be around by that time.



Ah, I forgot about the initial setup. I don't know how it works on DTiVos, but it's been so long since I did mine on the S2 that I forgot it. I seem to recall I had to extend a long phone line from the kitchen wall outlet.


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if it's Adelphia or OTA, as I can't really get WKYC-DT reliably over-air. But others have complained about it in the HDTV Programming NBC Olympics threads, so it's not just you and I.



Yep, getting the pops and cracks OTA with a 86 signal strength. The sound itself is annoying but when I had it on the surround over the weekend I was always looking over my shoulder 'cuz I thought someone was sneaking up behind me and the floor was creaking. Sometimes "digital reality" is too real.


----------



## Inundated

News flash - it appears the Cavaliers' high definition games on Fox Sports Ohio HD WILL be seen on Adelphia, according to this from Ohio Media Watch:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...e-updates.html 


They say the games could show up as soon as tonight on a channel that isn't up yet, 798.


----------



## hookbill

I assume that this means they will carry Fox Sports Ohio HD?


Or is it just for the Cav's?


----------



## SteveC

The new channel 531 on TWC is called Cavs HD(Not FSN-HD) in the guide. It's up and it looks great.


----------



## stuart628

well everyone welcome me to the Cleveland club, I just got my new vip211 Hd reciever from dish! I was pumped to hook it up and see what it was about, I got it up and running, and lo and behold all of my OTA stations come in at 98!!! I was estatic, started flipping through and there was no WOIO and WKYC was at 67 (at 65 it loses video and audio) this had me confused on the 811 they came in great, no problems, and I hadnt touched the antenna, so I run up to the attic, repoint the antenna, get both WKYC and WOIO,but they come in at 68-70, which is low, so now I dont know what I am going to do, might have to actually move that antenna outside! was hoping against it, oh well!


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The new channel 531 on TWC is called Cavs HD(Not FSN-HD) in the guide. It's up and it looks great.



Same on Comcast, looks amazing!


----------



## eml626

Well I just wanted to chime in and let all of you on Comcast and Time Warner (which I had in Columbus until June when I moved back to Cleveland) how wonderful tonights Cavs games looks on FSNOhio Ch. 30 Analog. This is discrasfull, all the money Adelphia spends advertising at the Q and they won't pick up the game in HD. I read that article and was very disapointed to see 798 not available, but I must be honest, I didn't and don't expect to see it. Adelphia is the worst. I would love to switch to D* or Echo but it is just so expensive to get an HDDVR and an HD reciever while still hooking up 10 more analog TV's. The law the cable companies faught to get passed to prevent them from having to carry all digital channles has really come back to screw the consumer with no options to view the channles of their choice. Come on Adelphia just charge me extra for FSN and TNT HD.


On a side not any other Cavs fans out there want to see our new PA anouncer Ronnie Duncan FIRED? MAN IS HE THE WORST!


----------



## Bryan 93 ?

Well Fsnhd in mentor is a bust. I got a not authorized to view







I called and no one can help me at Comcast. Anyone with comcast know, do I need to sign up for the special FSN sports package to get FSNHD?


:edit: I take it all back, I just got a call back from the helpline and FSNHD now works... Yay, can't believe it, first time I have ever had a problem resolved over the phone. Good job Comcast!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same on Comcast, looks amazing!


----------



## Inundated

Bad news: Adelphia channel 798 doesn't show up on my 8000HD's guide.


Good news: Adelphia is getting tonight's game in HD. It is showing up in the clear on my QAM-capable USB HDTV tuner! I can't tell you what channel, because the Fusion software gives it a weird non-standard number (881-2) that may or may not have any relation with the actual QAM channel number.


If you have a QAM-capable tuner, do a scan and you should find it. It looks great. I'll post a screen cap in a bit. I assume this means it'll only take an update to the boxes to get it on the HD cable boxes.


----------



## Inundated

Here are the screen caps...


A game action shot:











#23 closeup, making a free throw:


----------



## eml626

Interesting to see that they are sending it through on the cads, but they could't get the boxes up and running. I just reset my box lets see if that helps. hey have never had a problem adding channles before, hey if they need one there are always the "testing" channles for the analogs in digital (the 800's) This just really sucks, but hey glad to see the screen shots and how good it looks and I look foward to the game on the 23rd if Adelphia should decide by then to pay someone to update the channles.. Hey maybe they can put the game on 708, it seems to work well


----------



## Inundated

Adding channels is problematic on Adelphia, always has been. Remember when it took some folks two or three days to get WOIO-DT?


It'll likely be there by next game. The signal is already going out over Adelphia...the boxes just can't find it yet. The above screen shot is from my Adelphia feed. I wonder if it'll be "in the clear" QAM-wise once they get it added on the boxes?


----------



## eml626

Inundated: How are you recieving the game through the fusion card. Did Adelphia not encode the broadcast? That seems kind of weird.


Amazing that the Cavs can play so bad against Golden State and come Bring it against the Spurs.


Edit> Ok I just read your post, so it was not encoded tonight. You wouldn't imagine it would be, if it was, what is to stop someone fom streaming it over the internet. Kinda cool how you can use a xbox 360 core now days to stream video from your pc to HDTV that would be cool if you could stream QAM signal over the net and to your tv in that fassion. Just curious, what channels now are not encrypted? Well I hope they get it together for the next game, it is always a blast to be sitting here with all the equiptment and hear them advertise all night how great the game looks in HD and be stuck w/o it, kind of reminds me of tnt.


I was a beta tester w/ Warner and the 8300's when they first came out they were great the pasport software is a pleasure. Programs don't decide not to record on thier own, you can set it to record 1st run only, set the time w/o resets and order which shows are of geater preferance, so you can have 5 shows set to record sun at 1 and the 2 most important will record w/o the others being erased perminatly. There remote the actual SA remote is also much better, although I would have never bought my Harmony w/o Adelphia's remote sucking so much. Anyway the point, Warner had no troubble adding TNT HD a few years back the night the NBA playoffs began, it only seems hard for Adelphia to add a ch. Hell put it on the League pass HDPPV ch or on the INHD Blackout, just seems Adelphia makes everything harder then it should be. Good to hear they have it though.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated: How are you recieving the game through the fusion card. Did Adelphia not encode the broadcast? That seems kind of weird.



It's showing up unencrypted tonight. I don't know if this is temporary, or if it'll be permanent. I just tried unlabeled QAM channels until I found the game. Adelphia sends down some other unencrypted HD, including Discovery HD.


The Fusion shows it as "D881", which I am assuming is 88.1 in QAM speak. It's not always that way on the Fusion, as it has a weird numbering system, but I think that'd be it.


A quick check of the Fusion's channel scan guide shows it's indeed RF channel 88.


----------



## hookbill

So how long has 799 been NBA HD? I just noticed that tonight. I see you need to have the NBA package to get that one.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So how long has 799 been NBA HD? I just noticed that tonight. I see you need to have the NBA package to get that one.



It looks like an extension of the "NBA League Pass" package. It's been there at least the past day or two. I think the NHL season package has also shown up in the guide there...


As far as FSN Ohio HD goes, I believe the Cavaliers games will be the only content they have in HD...at least for now. I don't know if they intend on sending down an upconverted version of their SD feed. I was over at my sister's house, where they have TWC, and it was indeed labeled "Cavs in HD" on the channel guide. But that could just be for tonight, to get it up on the system.


----------



## eml626

The 799 channel has been there a few weeks, advertising HDPPV, and then NBA and NHL, if it is the same as it is on TWC, nothing will be on it as NBA league pass does not air games in HD, and when NBA TV does it is on the INHD channel's which wait a minute are blocked out on Adelphia because we don't get NBA TV! Good to know we get NFL TV though which would be great if they ever aired anything. Another interestingnote is that the HDPPV ch does not show HD PPV's such as the latest UFC which is broadcast in HD and replayed on INHD a month later.


Does anyone know how to access the diagnostic menue on the SA 8300 HD on Warner it is select and exit which doesn't seem to work ofr us. That seems to open up all channels for testing, if FSN HD is on QAM 88 this may allow us to test it (prob not though)


Also it would be nice if FSN HD would at least broadcast the non-HD games on that ch in digital as I know my ch. 30 looks like absolute ass on my tv's.


Why arn't all of the games on FSN in hd, do they use the video equiptment of other fsn networks on the road, it seems if you invest in the equiptment use it, unless they are barrowing it from another ch/ company.


hdtvcolumbus (search it) has a lot of good information about the same issues on the warner/wow/ and insight system. Interesting enough it seems Sinclair has now completed an agreement with Insight and WOW leaving Warner the only ones in the dust in that market, still a better possition then we are in because then can correct their problem with OTA recievers. It may be nice to get a sight like that going in Cleveland, I know when I was in Columbus we had a lot of issues resolved and had engineers from all of the local broadcast companies keeping us up to date and reporting problems we discovered.


----------



## Inundated

Whew. A lot of questions! I can't answer most of 'em, but I will note that 3 of the 8 remaining Cavs HD games are road games...so they're certainly using the remote facilities there.


FSN, as a rule, is going HD in all of its markets...that was stated by the company late last year. So, presumably, as more and more FSN programming is done in HD, it'll filter through the network. At very least, it'd make it easier for the Cavs to air road games in HD in a full schedule next season.


The primary problem for ANY HD sports broadcast is the availablity of HD live production trucks. That number is going up all the time.


----------



## eml626

Lets hope so. I kind of figured that the away games depended on the facilities available in the alternative markets. It would definatly be nice to get the road games in HD if thats the case I will be happy o get a season ticket for the home games







. Interesting to see what happens when UPN and WUAB merge as far as the HD status on that channel. And one can only hope the Warner will be in in time for the playoffs on TNT, not sure if you have seen TNTinHD but it is the best, they even make all the old drama's they play all day look good, all in 5.1 and Barkley in HD, what more could yo ask for?


----------



## hookbill

Meanwhile back at the old FOX ranch I see the break up in programing is continuing. 24 was in 3 pieces last time I looked.


This just can't be this hard to figure out. They know it happens when they switch to local commercials/promos. As soon as network program resumes recording goes uninterrupted. I find it hard to believe they can't fix this issue by now.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, the rumor mill rumbles say that they may air HD Cavs games on WUAB at some point as well, maybe this season.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Meanwhile back at the old FOX ranch I see the break up in programing is continuing. 24 was in 3 pieces last time I looked.
> 
> 
> This just can't be this hard to figure out. They know it happens when they switch to local commercials/promos. As soon as network program resumes recording goes uninterrupted. I find it hard to believe they can't fix this issue by now.



They have to know that something connected to the 5.1/2.0 audio switch is doing it. That happens at each non-network break...WJW switches into DD2.0 at the local break, and FOX switches back out to 5.1. It is the exact moment my Fusion tuning software takes a dive, and the exact moment you get your cut up recordings.


I'm avoiding FOX HD programming. There's no problem on FOX 8 News in HD, because it's all local and DD2.0 audio. It's only the network stuff that does this.


They're aware of it, presumably. I'm just not going to watch their network until they fix it.


----------



## eml626

Hmmm it will be interesting to see what channel a Cavs Hd broadcast on WUAB would be on. Are they affiliated enough with fox that they would put it on that HD channel or will it be on a WUAB HD channel which I believe is available now OTA? Certainly not with Adelphia. Just out of curiosity, was the game tonight in 5.1?


As far as Fox goes, it is almost like just stop switching to comercials on the HD feed, I am aware this will never happen. But none less seing as how it is affecting the entire DVR system it almost seems that they should either be required to do that, or shutdown the channel until it is fixed. I know of the 4 shows I had set to record last nihgt, Simpsons-American Dad, I was afforded with all of 2, 1 min chunks of american dad. The rest were not even attempted to be recorded. Better then last weeks 15 parts of the Simpsons I guess.


----------



## eml626

Stupid question. CBS broadcasts in 5.1, I know because I used to recieve the signal, yet we don't get it because Raycom has not purchased the hardware. If the same is true with Fox and the audio is added at a later stage, why can't they just cut all their programming to 2.0 until the problem is resulved? Weird how it just started all of a sunned, 5.1 has been going strong for months w/o issues at least on my box.


Hey for whatever its worth I will not watch American Idol tom










The next new Family guy is not till the 26th so hopefully it is fixed by then


----------



## hookbill

Last night I got to "enjoy" my HD recorded showings of "Desperate Housewives" and "Grey's Anatomy." As mentioned in previous post the audio was way out of sink and it didn't get straightened out until they went to SD.


Here's the problem. Try explaining these things to the wife who has a monetary vested interest in my "hobbies." The more these things happen the harder it is to prove what great technology it is to her. She doesn't see the difference in a SD or HD picture. Has no idea what Dolby Digital 5.1 is, even when I try to point it out to her. She basically thinks that I'm wasting her viewing time on this "stuff".


I frequently get, "If it doesn't come in well on HD why not just record SD?"


I've had HD television for over a year and a half now and I don't think I can really say that they have made to much effort to improve the quality of what they are putting out. And I don't buy that argument anymore that it's still "new". It's not, it's been around for a few years now.


They really need to do better.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They have to know that something connected to the 5.1/2.0 audio switch is doing it. That happens at each non-network break...WJW switches into DD2.0 at the local break, and FOX switches back out to 5.1. It is the exact moment my Fusion tuning software takes a dive, and the exact moment you get your cut up recordings. There's no problem on FOX 8 News in HD, because it's all local and DD2.0 audio. It's only the network stuff that does this.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CBS broadcasts in 5.1. If the same is true with Fox and the audio is added at a later stage, why can't they just cut all their programming to 2.0 until the problem is resulved? Weird how it just started all of a sunned, 5.1 has been going strong for months w/o issues at least on my box.



It's not quite that simple. The FOX Splicer system allows the FOX HD signal to be passed directly to the home user without the local affiliate decoding and encoding the signal. It also allows the local affiliate "to splice between FOX's delivered 720p feed and their own local 720p ATSC encoder". This system allows FOX to control the quality of their broadcast while the local network can splice in local content and logos. You can't compare the FOX system to any other network's distribution system.


It would appear that the problem lies with this switch between the FOX network feed and the local feed. Sure there isn't a problem during the local news because it is a completely local feed and doesn't require switching in the splicer. This bug has NOTHING to do with 5.1 to 2.0 switching other than WJW-DT doesn't have 5.1 capabilities, just the national feed. Furthermore, WJW-DT shouldn't have control over the 5.1 capability of the FOX national feed.


The strange thing is how this problem doesn't affect the TWC SA8300HD (Passport).

Article on FOX Splicer


----------



## eml626

Terry: Have you used the Passport DVR? Same box yet everything seems to work on it. The only problem Warner ever had with HD DVR was on its origional release on the 8200, the HDD was too slow any there was pixalation. I switched between 4 of these boxes with no avail. However, with that siad, the recognized this problem and had the 8300HD on the streets within 4 months w/ no similar issues.


Still the question with fox remains, if their switch to local content is messing up our hardware to the point that it needs to be reset, why are they no banned from switching the content on the HD channel until it is resolved. I bet that would get their advertisers on their back real quick!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> Article on FOX Splicer



While that article is certainly interesting, it is also old. 2 years old to be exact. What bearing does that have today on what started happening 2 weeks ago?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While that article is certainly interesting, it is also old. 2 years old to be exact. What bearing does that have today on what started happening 2 weeks ago?



I don't have an exact answer, but based on the experience I've had with my own equipment, all it takes is for one paramater to change in the bitstream and somewhere some unforgiving receiver will have problems. I'm not qualified to speak on the Fox Splicer, however I know the basic function is to "splice in" the local content into the Fox bitstream as was previously posted. Any mis-timing or glitch at the splice point may not show up in the picture but may very well upset certain recording devices that are unforgiving. I've noticed that WJW engineering is aware of the problem and I'm sure they're working with Fox engineering to resolve the issue, especially since it's so widespread.


----------



## Commodore 64

Does anyone else think the audio on WKYC-DT for the Olympics is horrible? You have to turn it way up to hear it, and then the commercials come on and BLOW you away.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone else think the audio on WKYC-DT for the Olympics is horrible? You have to turn it way up to hear it, and then the commercials come on and BLOW you away.



I watched a little last night and it was fine. Which audio output on your HD receiver are you using and what kind of audio system are you playing it through? The people I've seen that have that kind of problem have their system configured for 5.1 audio but only use two speakers. Since the 5.1 dialogue is meant to play through a center channel speaker they have to crank the volume up to hear anything on the right and left channel. Then when a commercial comes on in simple two channel stereo it is naturally very loud.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While that article is certainly interesting, it is also old. 2 years old to be exact. What bearing does that have today on what started happening 2 weeks ago?



It is extremely relevant in diagnosing the problem as there was some confusion on the cause of the problem. I posted this information in response to posts about this being a 5.1 to 2.0 audio switch problem.


Like TV21Chief said, one tweak in configuration, for any reason, can result in problems in the end user's equipment.


Just because information is old doesn't mean that it is irrelevant in diagnosing the problem.


Eml626,

Yes, I have the TW 8300HD (Passport) in Cincinnati and my parents have it up in Akron. The only issue I have ever had with the box was when using the HDMI connection the DD audio would drop to PCM. This was corrected in a Firmware release in the fall.


My guess is they are not banned from switching to their local content during prime time because it is not affecting ALL of their HD viewers. From the data I have seen it only affects users of the Adelphia 8300HD (SARA) DVR, one user with Fusion tuning software, and one report from a E* DVR user.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like TV21Chief said, one tweak in configuration, for any reason, can result in problems in the end user's equipment.




I had a paramater wrong in my setup since day one. I never had a problem until last summer when it shut down my WB channel on 2 and only 2 integrated HDTV's in my viewership. THAT was a real treat to track down!


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My guess is they are not banned from switching to their local content during prime time because it is not affecting ALL of their HD viewers. From the data I have seen it only affects users of the Adelphia 8300HD (SARA) DVR, one user with Fusion tuning software, and one report from a E* DVR user.



I agree with you terryfoster. The one E* user that reported a problem earlier is a friend of mine and he hasn't had any problems recording Fox-HD since that one instance so I think we can safely consider him an outlier. The Fusion user (Inundated?) has always had this problem, which would indicate nothing has recently changed at Fox-HD with respect to their splicing system.


That leaves only Adelphia. Unless Fox has indeed changed something very recently (which is doubtful), Adelphia is the only one in the chain that's changed anything that we know of (they've changed our SARA software at least twice in the past couple weeks.) I think the evidence is pretty strong that while the later SARA versions add some nice functionality (4x FF, Play from Beginning, etc), it appears to be less fault tolerant of Fox's splicing system than before. This is further bolstered by the fact that other cable providers aren't having a problem. Also, the tech that was at my house last week explicitly told me it was due to the software upgrades and that all we could do is wait for a fixed revision from Adelphia HQ.


Again I think we should all be banging on Adelphia to fix this, and requesting compensation for our troubles. Even if it isn't an Adelphia problem per se, we pay them to deliver us this content and services. They are responsible for debugging and fixing these types of problems, not us. I called once yesterday and was promised a tech would call me back. I haven't heard anything yet, but once (if?) I do I'll be sure to post my conversation.


Of course this is all pure conjecture


----------



## Commodore 64




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched a little last night and it was fine. Which audio output on your HD receiver are you using and what kind of audio system are you playing it through? The people I've seen that have that kind of problem have their system configured for 5.1 audio but only use two speakers. Since the 5.1 dialogue is meant to play through a center channel speaker they have to crank the volume up to hear anything on the right and left channel. Then when a commercial comes on in simple two channel stereo it is naturally very loud.



I use a PCI tuner in my HTPC. The HTPC audio is sent through my receiver via optical cable. Commercials do indeed, often switch over to PCM and then they get routed to jsut my 2 front's and subwoofer. I do have a center channel though. Something just seems to be wonky with the Olympic stuff, as everything else seems fine.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That leaves only Adelphia. Unless Fox has indeed changed something very recently (which is doubtful), Adelphia is the only one in the chain that's changed anything that we know of (they've changed our SARA software at least twice in the past couple weeks.) I think the evidence is pretty strong that while the later SARA versions add some nice functionality (4x FF, Play from Beginning, etc), it appears to be less fault tolerant of Fox's splicing system than before. This is further bolstered by the fact that other cable providers aren't having a problem. Also, the tech that was at my house last week explicitly told me it was due to the software upgrades and that all we could do is wait for a fixed revision from Adelphia HQ.



Two software upgrades? I'm only aware of one but two would make sense.


Do you know what dates the upgrades occurred? The only one I'm aware of was last Wednesday (I believe).


----------



## eml626

-Terry: Interesting to hear your DD didn't work, mine was fine in columbus, I moved in June all I had to do was switch the settings in the internal menu.


-I forget who it was but to the person w/ high volume on commercials: typically commercials do have a higher volume, but not that much so. If you are in 5.1 w/ a 5.1 speaker set up, is it possible that you have your surrounds at a higher volme setting then your center to highten effects in movies and such with a lot of low volume surround effects. If this is so, some 2 ch commercials especially ones for like what will be on the later news seem much louder. This can also happpen through the center if you are in neo6 or PLII. Hope this helps. Just adjust your speaker settings indiv. Typically if this is the problem you wil notice in some movies you will randomly get an explosion scene that seems 10x louder then the rest of the movie.



-Good luck getting adelphia to call you back or getting a supervisor/tech. My bill had 2 cable modems listed on it (Ihad 1) this went on for only 2 years







I then changed from a gold to platinum package and instead of doing the upgrade they just added platnium to may accout, so I had both hurray I get to pay for HBO twice. When I called the first time I saw this on the bill I gave up on phone call 10. The next 2 months of this I called like 5 times a month, only paying what I actually owed mind you. Each time I asked for a supervisor because no one could seem to understand my problem, and each time I was not allowed to speak with one, but they were going to call me back. Should be any day now lol. (now I feel if I should have to sit on the phone w/ them for hours getting nothing accomplished and no Supp. I should be paid for my time, which is not abundant, but thats just my feeling) I finally got a government agency involved, and the problem was suposivly taken care of. Next bill comes and the credits where there and then they recharged back for 3 months to negate the credits. Finally I call back again relyy pissed, and low and behold this time they gave me a supervisor who took care of it and appolagized and offered me $40 extra in credits divided into 3 months. O and that extra modem is still on my account, but I am not being charged for it now. One of my ineffective calls somehow resulted in my showtime being switched to stars not sure how that happened. Government agency when I called and said Adelphia just laughed and said get in line. So the moral here is, good luck getting anything resulved with Adelpha, they just don't care and the initial people on the phone didn't exactly graduate gradeschool.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Two software upgrades? I'm only aware of one but two would make sense.
> 
> 
> Do you know what dates the upgrades occurred? The only one I'm aware of was last Wednesday (I believe).



I'm working off the "Global Cfg" data under the "SARA Information" diagnostic screen that says I received a new global configuration Mon Feb 6 2006, 4:21:53 PM EST. Perhaps I shouldn't refer to it as an software upgrade exactly, but from http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11906 I take this to mean that Adelphia changed _something_ on my 8300. Coincidentally or not, this is exactly when my troubles began.


Again, this is all just conjecture for the fun of it. It very well may be Fox-HD's "fault" for twiddling bits in their bitstream, who knows. However, I do know that I pay Adelphia to deliver and they're not. Whose fault it is doesn't really concern me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm working off the "Global Cfg" data under the "SARA Information" diagnostic screen that says I received a new global configuration Mon Feb 6 2006, 4:21:53 PM EST. Perhaps I shouldn't refer to it as an software upgrade exactly, but from http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11906 I take this to mean that Adelphia changed _something_ on my 8300. Coincidentally or not, this is exactly when my troubles began.
> 
> 
> Again, this is all just conjecture for the fun of it. It very well may be Fox-HD's "fault" for twiddling bits in their bitstream, who knows. However, I do know that I pay Adelphia to deliver and they're not. Whose fault it is doesn't really concern me.



First I want to thank you for dropping that link in here. Wow, a way to understand what the heck those screens really mean. This is great.


As far as Adelphia not delivering, I would say this applies to the times it has started a recording and just plain stopped X amount of minutes into the recording, or simply missed a recording all together. Yes, I understand it's annoying but they are delivering the entire content of the FOX shows. At least I've been getting them.


What really annoys me is the completely dropped shows or partial recordings. I haven't had anyone, anyware in the entire AVS forum come up with an answer other then a speculation of "corrupted guide data" which I have been unable to prove.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as Adelphia not delivering, I would say this applies to the times it has started a recording and just plain stopped X amount of minutes into the recording, or simply missed a recording all together. Yes, I understand it's annoying but they are delivering the entire content of the FOX shows. At least I've been getting them.
> 
> 
> What really annoys me is the completely dropped shows or partial recordings. I haven't had anyone, anyware in the entire AVS forum come up with an answer other then a speculation of "corrupted guide data" which I have been unable to prove.



So this past couple weeks with Adelphia have been really interesting:


-Fox 8 WJW still breaking up--24 last night was broken into 3 parts at 9:27 when I noticed and stopped the recording to record the analog broadcast instead of HD


-WKYC/NBC Olympic coverage with the constant crackling of the rear (maybe all?) speakers whenever they come back from commercials, and maybe other times. Does anyone from WKYC read this? If not, is there someplace to send comments that actually may get read.


-On the bright side (and I know this isn't the right forum), my 8300HD didn't "kick me out" of the recording last night when the "live" show being recorded ended. (Those with the machine know what I'm talking about.) Maybe that was part of the new update from Adelphia.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as Adelphia not delivering, I would say this applies to the times it has started a recording and just plain stopped X amount of minutes into the recording, or simply missed a recording all together. Yes, I understand it's annoying but they are delivering the entire content of the FOX shows. At least I've been getting them.



True, but I pay an extra fee for HD and DVR services, and I expect them to work. It would be one thing if I always got the program, just "chunked" up. Sure that'd be annoying but atleast I could watch the show. But I don't always get it that way. Often I only get a couple of short segments.


Anyway, I just called Adelphia back. They are placing the blame squarely on Fox-HD's shoulders. The CSR I talked to said she received a notice just yesterday that said Fox-HD recently modified their splicing system which was causing the hiccups. She also said they (Fox-HD) are trying to roll it back or fix it. When I asked why other people with the same box on other cable proviers (TWC for instance) aren't having a problem she said that Comcast and Cox were both having problems as well. Can anyone here with a SA8300HD and Comcast or Cox confirm or deny that?


At any rate, she still had no clue when it'd be fixed. Sigh.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched a little last night and it was fine. Which audio output on your HD receiver are you using and what kind of audio system are you playing it through? The people I've seen that have that kind of problem have their system configured for 5.1 audio but only use two speakers. Since the 5.1 dialogue is meant to play through a center channel speaker they have to crank the volume up to hear anything on the right and left channel. Then when a commercial comes on in simple two channel stereo it is naturally very loud.



Audio does seem to be an issue at times. The opening cerimony volume was horribly under powered and I had to turn my system to like -30 dbs to hear it. Normally, -40 to -45 would be normal listening volume for TV. Running a full 6.1 system through a Yamaha RX-V1200 in my home theater. The issue was not my setup, it was NBC. Then the commericals would blast. I changed the settings from DD to Pro-Logic and then just 2 channel stereo...it was the same...way too low volume. Some of the sessions have had acceptable volume and some have not so far. I have Dish Network HD upstairs and it was the same OTA so it wasn't Adelphia's fault in my Home Theater. Not sure what NBC's issue is, but the audio levels have been inconsistant and unacceptable. They also have had a ton of popping and clicking sounds during their broadcast as well. Not good.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So this past couple weeks with Adelphia have been really interesting:
> 
> 
> -Fox 8 WJW still breaking up--24 last night was broken into 3 parts at 9:27 when I noticed and stopped the recording to record the analog broadcast instead of HD
> 
> 
> -WKYC/NBC Olympic coverage with the constant crackling of the rear (maybe all?) speakers whenever they come back from commercials, and maybe other times. Does anyone from WKYC read this? If not, is there someplace to send comments that actually may get read.
> 
> 
> -On the bright side (and I know this isn't the right forum), my 8300HD didn't "kick me out" of the recording last night when the "live" show being recorded ended. (Those with the machine know what I'm talking about.) Maybe that was part of the new update from Adelphia.



1. FOX 8 There is no reason to stop the recording. All you have to do is delete the small timed ones which are just commercials (run ff to make sure before you do this).


2. The cracking noise is not an Adelphia issue, this has been discussed by Inundated. It appears to be a network issues as they are discussing this in other forums.


3. Yes, the start from beginning has already discussed by ClevelandJAX.


It's always a good idea to make sure you've read a page or two when you post. That way it doesn't appear your smeaking.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So this past couple weeks with Adelphia have been really interesting:
> 
> 
> -Fox 8 WJW still breaking up--24 last night was broken into 3 parts at 9:27 when I noticed and stopped the recording to record the analog broadcast instead of HD
> 
> 
> -WKYC/NBC Olympic coverage with the constant crackling of the rear (maybe all?) speakers whenever they come back from commercials, and maybe other times. Does anyone from WKYC read this? If not, is there someplace to send comments that actually may get read.
> 
> 
> -On the bright side (and I know this isn't the right forum), my 8300HD didn't "kick me out" of the recording last night when the "live" show being recorded ended. (Those with the machine know what I'm talking about.) Maybe that was part of the new update from Adelphia.



Last night 24 recorded in full, but in about 6 or 7 segments. NBC sound issues including the crackling sounds are NOT Adelphia as they can be heard via my Dishnetwork HD OTA signal as well. It's an NBC issue. What I'm unsure of is if it is our Local WKYC or just the feed they are getting.


----------



## WJW Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> True, but I pay an extra fee for HD and DVR services, and I expect them to work. It would be one thing if I always got the program, just "chunked" up. Sure that'd be annoying but atleast I could watch the show. But I don't always get it that way. Often I only get a couple of short segments.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I just called Adelphia back. They are placing the blame squarely on Fox-HD's shoulders. The CSR I talked to said she received a notice just yesterday that said Fox-HD recently modified their splicing system which was causing the hiccups. She also said they (Fox-HD) are trying to roll it back or fix it. When I asked why other people with the same box on other cable proviers (TWC for instance) aren't having a problem she said that Comcast and Cox were both having problems as well. Can anyone here with a SA8300HD and Comcast or Cox confirm or deny that?
> 
> 
> At any rate, she still had no clue when it'd be fixed. Sigh.



We made changes to our WJW-DT stream (9am Tuesday, 2/14) that we think may fix this problem. I'll be looking here for feedback. Again, many thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WJW Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We made changes to our WJW-DT stream (9am Tuesday, 2/14) that we think may fix this problem. I'll be looking here for feedback. Again, many thanks!



I'll be recording House tonight. I will have something posted by end of the evening.


Thanks for communicating what's going on to us!


----------



## gzath

Both 5.1 and 8.1 come up with a "poor signal quality" yet the meters come in at 85 to 90 on both.


I have an OTA setup. Olympics on 3.1 are coming in just fine along with all the other usual Cleveburg stations. Just 5.1 and 8.1 are "out". They were working before (couple hours maybe)


Any1 else having this issue?


----------



## hookbill

Inundated, you can call your boycott off. I recorded House and it was a complete one hour recording.


WJW Engineer, thank you and your team for a job well done.


----------



## Dweezilz

And everyone was so quick to blame poor old Adelphia. ha!! Innocent...this time.


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Both 5.1 and 8.1 come up with a "poor signal quality" yet the meters come in at 85 to 90 on both.
> 
> 
> I have an OTA setup. Olympics on 3.1 are coming in just fine along with all the other usual Cleveburg stations. Just 5.1 and 8.1 are "out". They were working before (couple hours maybe)
> 
> 
> Any1 else having this issue?




Nevermind. I performed a new channel scan and they are back. Who knows why they went AWOL.


Ain't technology grand.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And everyone was so quick to blame poor old Adelphia. ha!! Innocent...this time.



Oh believe me, they've got enough other crap on their plate they deserved every bit of it!










I would be interested to know what exactly Fox-HD changed originally that caused the problem.


Thanks much WJWEngineering, seems to be working great again for me too.


----------



## eml626

Here is a copy of the message I recieved this morning from Adelphia.


Information from our technical department:



We have discovered an anomaly which affects customers who record FOX-8 primetime programming on their DVRs.


The symptom is that the DVR splits up a single prime-time program into many smaller programs


lasting 5-20 minutes each. The customer winds up with several short programs recorded on their machine instead of one contiguous show.


This appears to be triggered whenever FOX-8 switches between network programming and a local station break. They have recently made some changes to their MPEG splicing equipment and the anomaly has appeared shortly after this change was made.


At this time FOX-8 is working with their corporate engineering department to see whether their recent firmware upgrade can be rolled back to see if this resolves the problem. At the same time, our Video Ops group is investigating the anomaly from our side.


Both parties are working diligently to resolve this. We hope to have a resolution soon.


Lastly we will "get the games" when we have a contract. That is the unfortunate nature of the business.



-The Fox issue does seem to be fixed now so that is good news.


-The other comment is refering to a message I sent them about the Indians and Cavs games. This leads me to believe that somehow this company will actually let Clevelanders go w/o regular season Tribe at lease until the takeover when the FCC decides to allow it. It also leads me to believe that whatever signal was sent for the Cavs in HD through the QAM signal the other day was either A) A 1 time deal for that game that they didn't bother to patch into the gigi boxes, or B) they for some reason have the channel in place in case a contract is signed and just didn't encode the QAM signal. Does anyone have any info on this. Is the QAM signal still available? We certainly still have no channel 798 on the boxes yet.


-Thanks anyone for any insite. I can't believe that Adelphia would actually be legally allowed to not send Cleveland sports especially like the Tribe situation into cleveland homes, but hey what do I know I am just the consumer who can't switch cable companies and can't affor all the necessary equiptment to upgrad my entire house to a dish, 2 HD DVR's and a bunch more boxes. That used to be a nice alternative when Basic cable was only an additional 14 bucks a month. Those were the good old days D* and cable lol.


----------



## hookbill

I'd kind of like to know what changes were made at WJW as well. I hope that it didn't mean they had to roll back their equipment to satisfy Adelphia.


Face it gang. We're all beta testers.







There just isn't anyway anyone can roll something out and know exactly how it's going to affect everyones equipment.


Now, let's start picking on WKYC-DT for a while about that "popping" noise. I don't know if that's been fixed yet but I did have the Olympics on yesterday afternoon and I didn't notice anything.


I did notice that I really had to crank it up to hear it decently, but that seems to be true of all Dolby 5.1 on that station. WJW is a bit better, I don't need to turn that one quite as far.


Commercials during the Olympics sounded balanced to me, I do have a 5 speaker system.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd kind of like to know what changes were made at WJW as well. I hope that it didn't mean they had to roll back their equipment to satisfy Adelphia.
> 
> 
> Face it gang. We're all beta testers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There just isn't anyway anyone can roll something out and know exactly how it's going to affect everyones equipment.
> 
> 
> Now, let's start picking on WKYC-DT for a while about that "popping" noise. I don't know if that's been fixed yet but I did have the Olympics on yesterday afternoon and I didn't notice anything.
> 
> 
> I did notice that I really had to crank it up to hear it decently, but that seems to be true of all Dolby 5.1 on that station. WJW is a bit better, I don't need to turn that one quite as far.
> 
> 
> Commercials during the Olympics sounded balanced to me, I do have a 5 speaker system.



Yep the popping was there last night via OTA. Sound was still woefully low, but seemed a bit louder than it had been during the opening ceremonies. While it's true that DD 5.1 is lower volume in general and maybe especially for WKYC, I watch many shows on that station and none have been even close to as low as the Olympics have been. It isn't consistent either as some of the Olympic coverage has been louder levels than others. On a normal DD 5.1 show my Yamaha is at about -40 to -38 db's. while during the Olympics, I've had to go as low as -25 dbs!!!! And that was just to get a nice volume, not loud. I went to my DVR'd recording of ER on WKYC and at -25 dbs, it was blaringly loud and needed to be at -38 dbs. Something is obviously not right and it's not my equipment, I can guarentee.


----------



## eml626

Hook: WKYC's volume does seem worst then most, and the popping is unexceptable, but when there is no popping I find that if your speakers are tuned correctly for your room the audoio is actually very clean and sounds good. ER for example on Th nights. Isn't WKYC one of the channels that drops the 5.1 feed for commercials? If thats the case remember what your reciever is doing on a 2 ch broadcast. If you are using neo6 or PLII it is taking a 2 ch signal, with volume even on both speakers, and dividing it up to 5. It really does a great job of what comes out of each speaker, and u will find it is very clean on to 2 ch digital feed, but an analog 2 ch feed tends to be louder, it is less controlled and just like analog video the signal sucks. I personally like the lower volume cleaner signal.


A note of personal experiance, I was much happier with the audio durring my programs (you are screwed on commercials) when I turned up my rear surrounds and rear center. Remember on a 5.1 signal the rear signal is sent directly to those speakers at that volume your reciever is not sending the signal back a equal volume to the fronts. I now have great surround comming through my rears at all times (there is always some background noise in almost anything you watch) and it really makes your surround sound great when these are turned up.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hook: WKYC's volume does seem worst then most, and the popping is unexceptable, but when there is no popping I find that if your speakers are tuned correctly for your room the audoio is actually very clean and sounds good. ER for example on Th nights. Isn't WKYC one of the channels that drops the 5.1 feed for commercials? If thats the case remember what your reciever is doing on a 2 ch broadcast. If you are using neo6 or PLII it is taking a 2 ch signal, with volume even on both speakers, and dividing it up to 5. It really does a great job of what comes out of each speaker, and u will find it is very clean on to 2 ch digital feed, but an analog 2 ch feed tends to be louder, it is less controlled and just like analog video the signal sucks. I personally like the lower volume cleaner signal.
> 
> 
> A note of personal experiance, I was much happier with the audio durring my programs (you are screwed on commercials) when I turned up my rear surrounds and rear center. Remember on a 5.1 signal the rear signal is sent directly to those speakers at that volume your reciever is not sending the signal back a equal volume to the fronts. I now have great surround comming through my rears at all times (there is always some background noise in almost anything you watch) and it really makes your surround sound great when these are turned up.



Here is my view on audio and please note that while my information is by the set 'standards' of DD, everyone has their own tastes and it's perfectly fine to deviate from this if it sounds better to you to do so. I have a dedicated 6.1 Home Theater system with all Phase Technology speakers calibrated via Yamaha receiver, with an SPL meter to 75 dbs all around to my seating position as specified by Dolby Labs specs for DD. You are correct that the volume level should be equal but that's in Dbs with a consistant test tone, not in actual volume level for all content. Basically what I'm saying is that if you have your rears set so that everything that comes out of them is equal level to the fronts (ie the background noise you hear in a show is the same level as the fronts), you aren't really listening to it as it was intended to be and then when the rears are supposed to be louder, they will be much too loud. Not all surround sound is intended to be directly heard at all times and more often it is intended to be a more subtle sound at a lower volume than your fronts during much of a show or movie. At other times, it's suppose to be as loud or louder and so if the director of the production wants you to hear something from them directly, you'll hear it if they are properly set. With a test tone that provides a consistant level of sound, all speakers should be set equal in dbs (via your seating position) and at that point, the particular audio from a show or DVD will dictate what sound level you hear from the rears. It's sort of like whispering or yelling into a mic that's set to a constant setting. If you yell, the volume is loud and if you whisper, it's soft even though the volume setting is the same on the mic. Of course it's all personal tastes so if a person likes the rears loud & it sounds good to them, that's what you should do.


As for the Olympics, aside from the popping which is just horrible, when I do have the Olympics at -25 to -30 dbs the sound is just great. My issue is, why is the sound level so darn low compared to any other DD content set to say -40 dbs, including other shows on WKYC? That and that popping tells me that they have some sort of sound issues that at this point, they can't fix on that broadcast. I agree about the commercials that aren't in DD being much louder (non-DD content is usually much louder as it doesn't conform to a standard) however, commericals have their volume up way higher for marketing purposes as well which makes it even worse when watching DD programming. When watching the Olympics, it's a HUGE problem because with my Yamaha set to -25 dbs, when that commerical starts, I need to start diving for the remote before the room starts to shake! ha! Not good at all. So yes, it does sound good but at a good volume level, it makes the entire experience including the commericals a bad one audio wise.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A note of personal experiance, I was much happier with the audio durring my programs (you are screwed on commercials) when I turned up my rear surrounds and rear center. Remember on a 5.1 signal the rear signal is sent directly to those speakers at that volume your reciever is not sending the signal back a equal volume to the fronts. I now have great surround comming through my rears at all times (there is always some background noise in almost anything you watch) and it really makes your surround sound great when these are turned up.



I'm a bit confused on my Pioneer System which way is up and which way is down on the rear speakers. Like Dweezilz I have to crank up actually all the way to -16 dbs to get a good sound. After that it does get louder.


But on the rear speakers..I think you turn those up by + db's, correct? Or does it work the way the system works and you turn the db's negative?


----------



## Dweezilz

Hey guys, Hooks fears may be realities for the upgrades. I just checked and now my DVR no longer has the 4th fast forward speed!!! Do you guys see the same on your boxes? Why did they take this away? That couldn't have had any connection to the Fox chunking issues, so I'm wondering why Adelphia rolled back their software! I'm bummed out because that 4th speed plus the 'play from start' option for currently recording programs were just a huge benefit. I hope they aren't gone perminantly. Ok...now I'll blame Adelphia. ha!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm a bit confused on my Pioneer System which way is up and which way is down on the rear speakers. Like Dweezilz I have to crank up actually all the way to -16 dbs to get a good sound. After that it does get louder.
> 
> 
> But on the rear speakers..I think you turn those up by + db's, correct? Or does it work the way the system works and you turn the db's negative?



Yep on most systems, the rears are controlled by +/- db's but it's more of an add and subtract instead of a set db reading. For that you need either a SPL meter or a receiver that has a built in meter like the new Yamahas (mine doesn't have it). The built in ones are usually 'auto sets' that have a microphone that detects it for you. Doesn't usually work all that well. Anyway, if you go say -2db's on the rears, you are decreasing the sound not increasing (again the - symbol has different meaning than in the volume settings).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep on most systems, the rears are controlled by +/- db's but it's more of an add and subtract instead of a set db reading. For that you need either a SPL meter or a receiver that has a built in meter like the new Yamahas (mine doesn't have it). The built in ones are usually 'auto sets' that have a microphone that detects it for you. Doesn't usually work all that well. Anyway, if you go say -2db's on the rears, you are decreasing the sound not increasing (again the - symbol has different meaning than in the volume settings).



Yeah, running the sound test that's absolutely correct. I ended up decreasing my rear speakers a bit from +5 to +2.5 for a balanced sound.


----------



## Commodore 64

The Olympic volume was a bit better last night. At least it seemed to be more in sync with the commercials. A few pops here and there, but not too bad.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys, Hooks fears may be realities for the upgrades. I just checked and now my DVR no longer has the 4th fast forward speed!!! Do you guys see the same on your boxes? Why did they take this away? That couldn't have had any connection to the Fox chunking issues, so I'm wondering why Adelphia rolled back their software! I'm bummed out because that 4th speed plus the 'play from start' option for currently recording programs were just a huge benefit. I hope they aren't gone perminantly. Ok...now I'll blame Adelphia. ha!



Likwise, I've been downgraded back to SARA v1.87.23.1. Sigh, I'll miss the nice features of v1.88.15.3.


----------



## Dweezilz

I called Adelphia & they said that they are working on some more upgrades to the software and have reverted back to the old version until they are done. She didn't know a time frame but she didn't think it would be for an extended period. Hopefully they'll add some more stuff, but maybe they are just fixing some the other things that we didn't like about the update such as the menu scrolling etc...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Likwise, I've been downgraded back to SARA v1.87.23.1. Sigh, I'll miss the nice features of v1.88.15.3.



Yep, me too. I wonder when this happened, if it was before the FOX fix or after.


We probably will never know.


You guys remember that letter I got from Adelphia saying they were going to send me some movies and some other stuff. Well, it came in the mail today. They gave me 3 free movies, a 25.00 Shell gift card and a USB 2.0 flash drive which I don't know what it is. It says 64 mb, plug and play.


If anyone knows what the flash drive is for, please educate me.


----------



## eml626




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Basically what I'm saying is that if you have your rears set so that everything that comes out of them is equal level to the fronts (ie the background noise you hear in a show is the same level as the fronts), you aren't really listening to it as it was intended to be and then when the rears are supposed to be louder, they will be much too loud. Not all surround sound is intended to be directly heard at all times and more often it is intended to be a more subtle sound at a lower volume than your fronts during much of a show or movie. At other times, it's suppose to be as loud or louder and so if the director of the production wants you to hear something from them directly, you'll hear it if they are properly set.



I agree, I guess I didn't explain myself very clear. I am a big advocate of surround, I won't watch w/o it anymore. My settings work for me based on room size speaker size speakers of course and even the speaker wire, and are diffrent in every room and diffrent input devices. Luckley for me I rarley watch anything not in 5.1, cds-hd and the cavs games as the exception, we really need tnthd. Anyway, I gues for me once I am set up I don't flux between analog and digital, but that was the point i was trying to get at was the diffrences in volume when the reciever is in diffrent modes. I also have Yam. equiptment 6.1 and I love their recievers far more then even the higher end equiptment such as marantz. Once you get the Yams set up, they rock.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, me too. I wonder when this happened, if it was before the FOX fix or after.
> 
> 
> We probably will never know.
> 
> 
> You guys remember that letter I got from Adelphia saying they were going to send me some movies and some other stuff. Well, it came in the mail today. They gave me 3 free movies, a 25.00 Shell gift card and a USB 2.0 flash drive which I don't know what it is. It says 64 mb, plug and play.
> 
> 
> If anyone knows what the flash drive is for, please educate me.



A flash drive is just a small memory card that plugs into your USB port and can be used to store files from your PC to transport to another PC. It will show up as another drive in XP while connected & you just drag and drop files.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree, I guess I didn't explain myself very clear. I am a big advocate of surround, I won't watch w/o it anymore. My settings work for me based on room size speaker size speakers of course and even the speaker wire, and are diffrent in every room and diffrent input devices. Luckley for me I rarley watch anything not in 5.1, cds-hd and the cavs games as the exception, we really need tnthd. Anyway, I gues for me once I am set up I don't flux between analog and digital, but that was the point i was trying to get at was the diffrences in volume when the reciever is in diffrent modes. I also have Yam. equiptment 6.1 and I love their recievers far more then even the higher end equiptment such as marantz. Once you get the Yams set up, they rock.



Yeah definately love my Yamaha too! I guess we'll have to just suffer through the Olympic sound issues. It's not too horrible, just annoying. I figured you were an advocate of DD/Surround but I just wanted to clairfy the best way to set it up. If you get one of those SPL meters from Radio Shack, you can really pin down the best levels for each speaker and get them all equal in output to compensate for each rooms characteristics and seating position etc... The mic deal that comes with the new Yamahas to auto detect levels is ok, but not great from what I hear.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you go say -2db's on the rears, you are decreasing the sound not increasing (again the - symbol has different meaning than in the volume settings).



I'm confused why would you say that the - symbol (negative) has a different meaning than in the volume settings. As you said earlier -25db is louder than -40db, assuming the input level is the same. So, +2db would be much, much louder than -25db. What did you mean by that?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm confused why would you say that the - symbol (negative) has a different meaning than in the volume settings. As you said earlier -25db is louder than -40db, assuming the input level is the same. So, +2db would be much, much louder than -25db. What did you mean by that?



Well, I understood him. What he meant is exactly what he wrote. Lets say you have your front speakers at 0 db, Wolfer at 0db and rear speakers at 0db. To increase sound to the rear speaker you would need to go +1 and then up as loud as your system will allow.


Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db. When you run the sound check on your system, you know that hissing noise, you can clearly hear that it increases with if you add volume to your rear speaker by pressing +db.


I don't know if I can make it any easier to understand. I understand your confusion though. I guess you have to try it yourself to really get it.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I understood him. What he meant is exactly what he wrote. Lets say you have your front speakers at 0 db, Wolfer at 0db and rear speakers at 0db. To increase sound to the rear speaker you would need to go +1 and then up as loud as your system will allow.
> 
> 
> Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db. When you run the sound check on your system, you know that hissing noise, you can clearly hear that it increases with if you add volume to your rear speaker by pressing +db.
> 
> 
> I don't know if I can make it any easier to understand. I understand your confusion though. I guess you have to try it yourself to really get it.



Yep, that is exactly right. Terry, the +2 dbs is not a 'volume setting'. It's just increasing the sound output by 2 db's for that particular speaker. That's how most receivers work (at least the one's I've had). So the - or + is different than setting the overall volume to say +2 dbs. One is adding or subtracting single db's for a particular speaker from the current system volume, the other is the setting for the overall system volume itself. Plus, if you set your volume to 2 db's, you'd blow your speakers out. ha!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db.



Simple math says that -25dB is greater than -40dB. This is also reflected in how your stereo gets louder as the decibles increase. I was trying to understand why Dweezilz believes the "-" symbol was different between the system volume settings and the speaker level volume settings, which from what i've been told so far, it isn't. I didn't know if his receiver, for some reason, used a different set of rules than the rest of the world.


UPDATE:

In other words no matter if you're talking about speaker level or system volume, negative dBs or -dBs is always the same. Yeah you would never turn your system up to +2dBs, but it is also true that you are increasing the dBs (NOT decreasing) when you go from -40dB to -25dB.


----------



## hookbill

I don't get it. What problems were they having still after FOX fixed their end of the problem? I wonder if this wasn't a knee jerk reaction, "Oh my God, we're getting calls left and right on this and we can't control when FOX will fix this."


"Hey, I know let's just reinstall the old software."


I'm not saying for sure that's what happened but now I want that upgrade back.


----------



## Commodore 64




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, that is exactly right. Terry, the +2 dbs is not a 'volume setting'. It's just increasing the sound output by 2 db's for that particular speaker. That's how most receivers work (at least the one's I've had). So the - or + is different than setting the overall volume to say +2 dbs. One is adding or subtracting single db's for a particular speaker from the current system volume, the other is the setting for the overall system volume itself. Plus, if you set your volume to 2 db's, you'd blow your speakers out. ha!



I read somewhere that analog sound meters are better than digital for home calibration. Is this true? I'm stopping at Radio Shack on the way home from work to pick one up.


Also, at what volume should I set the receiver when I mess with the test tones for room acoustic adjustment?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, at what volume should I set the receiver when I mess with the test tones for room acoustic adjustment?



Speaking only from my car audio experience, it was said that you should adjust the volume to a normal speaking voice level. I have no idea if this applies to home audio.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Simple math says that -25dB is greater than -40dB. This is also reflected in how your stereo gets louder as the decibles increase. I was trying to understand why Dweezilz believes the "-" symbol was different between the system volume settings and the speaker level volume settings, which from what i've been told so far, it isn't. I didn't know if his receiver, for some reason, used a different set of rules than the rest of the world.
> 
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> In other words no matter if you're talking about speaker level or system volume, negative dBs or -dBs is always the same. Yeah you would never turn your system up to +2dBs, but it is also true that you are increasing the dBs (NOT decreasing) when you go from -40dB to -25dB.



Now now...don't get testy like that. You are not understanding and talking apples and oranges here. And by saying my reciever goes by different rules than the rest of the world or implying that I'm some sort of idiot & have no idea what I'm talking about and that I don't understand simple math, you are coming off kinda rude, which is unnecessary here. We are all friends here, so let's keep the tone with that in mind.


Yes, -25dB is louder than -40 db's. Obviously -25 is a bigger number than -40. I think I might have learned that by the time I graduated from college.







Our disconnect was me trying (and obvioiusly failing for you) to make it more clear to Hookbill. He understood, you didn't. Maybe my wording was poor, but let's all try to be civil about it & figure out what I was intending to say. Yes, -db's is decreasing the sound and +db's is increasing. I was trying to differenciate that doing +2 db's isn't setting your rear speakers to +2dbs!!! If saying that + / - was different than the +/- db's of the system sound itself was wrong in your eyes or somehow offended you, I'm sorry for my poor wording. It's adding 2 db's to what the system is set to already. So by saying the - sign is different in the individual speaker settings, I wasn't saying that +/- for individual speakers is somehow different than + db's in real terms of volume setting all of a sudden, I was saying that if you adjust a rear speaker +4 dbs it's different than setting the rear speaker to +4 db's!!! So for instance if all speakers are at -40dbs and you adjust a rear speaker +4 db's, the speaker should be -36 dbs, not 4dbs. Get it? How is my math? Ha!


Not sure how else I could state it. What I will say is, let's all be nice first...rude never helps anything or anyone.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking only from my car audio experience, it was said that you should adjust the volume to a normal speaking voice level. I have no idea if this applies to home audio.



75 dbs is the DD standard give or take.


----------



## extremegamer

Anyone else with Fox Sports HD getting the Boston Celtics feed?! This is really odd.


----------



## rRooster

The tuner on my sony TV was bringing in 88.1 and showing a test pattern until game time, then it just went blank. No game in HD










Although I have to admit I am kind of frightened that i'm going to be scared when I see Michael Reghi in HD


----------



## eml626

So those of you getting the 88.1 qam feed is that adelphia still? Did you say you were getting the boston feed of the Cavs game. Has anyone heard anything about Adelphia adding the channel to the digi boxes. It seems kinda weird that it is available on Adelphia's line through QAM but we can't get it on the boxes. Could this be because they still don't have a contract to carry it?


----------



## blipszyc

Noticed my boxes were powered off when I came home this evening. Haven't checked yet, but I believe that means my software was downgraded too.


If Adelphia is reading this - I can do without the 4th FF as long as "Play from beginning" is there and it doesn't go back when a recording ends.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And by saying my reciever goes by different rules than the rest of the world or implying that I'm some sort of idiot & have no idea what I'm talking about and that I don't understand simple math, you are coming off kinda rude, which is unnecessary here. We are all friends here, so let's keep the tone with that in mind .... Not sure how else I could state it. What I will say is, let's all be nice first...rude never helps anything or anyone.



With all that is happening in the world of consumer electronics I would not be surprised if a receiver DID go by different rules than the rest of the world and I certainly did not mean to imply that you were some sort of idiot. I was merely trying to figure out what you meant by "-" having a different meaning.


Dweezilz, I have no beef with you and I am confident you understand what you are talking about. My first response was written as a question of clarification to you so you could explain it for yourself. I really didn't want your point to be lost or confused as it ended up happening. My second response (with references to simple math) was not directed to you but to hookbill who missed the point of my original question, which was directed to you anyway. Yes, my first example was not the best and probably attributed to the confusion.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db.



This response made me concerned and I wanted to make sure this was clairifed whether or not you were available to clarify it first.


So to expand on, and agree with what you (Dweezilz) have said:

The negative symbol has equal meaning whether talking about main system volume or speaker volume. The value, whether positive or negative, is relative to a base value which is different when talking about main system level and the speaker level.


The main system volume is displayed (on some receivers) as the number of decibels the volume is attenuated from the full amplification power of the receiver with 0dB being full (non-attenuated) amplification. As the decibels decrease the system volume decreases and vice versa (i.e. -25dB is louder than -40dB).


From there you can individually tailor each speaker's volume by setting its dB level lesser or greater than 0dB where 0dB is equal to the system level.


Sorry for offending, just needed to draw some attention.


----------



## Inundated

First of all, thanks to WJW Engineering for finding and apparently fixing the problem we've talked about here. I say "apparently" because I won't know for sure if it fixes things on my end until the next FOX HD program, at about 8 tomorrow night.







But I have confidence it'll be OK.


For those who asked - I have seen the problem on my Fusion HDTV Tuner (USB5), and have actually seen it for some time. I think I saw it just days after I got the thing, back in November-ish. However, it also showed up on my 8000HD in the past few days, as I've described here. I'll cross my fingers for tomorrow night.


As far as Adelphia and the Cavs/FSN Ohio HD thing...it's my understanding that the holdup may not have been technical, but that all the papers between FSN Ohio/Adelphia may not have been in order in time to add it as channel 798. The open QAM feed I found may just have been to be ready for it, technically. (That'd probably also explain it being open...they probably weren't thinking about QAM tuners in the public.) I hear that they hope things should be in order by the 22nd, the next scheduled HD Cavs game, for it to air on Adelphia 798.


I'm not nearly as optimistic about the Indians, be it in SD, HD or any-D. It sounds like they're just gonna wait until TWC takes over Adelphia/Comcast locally. Roger Brown's PD column quoted Cox's local folks as saying the Indians are asking wayyyy too much for the new feed.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, I apologize for mischaracterizing the FOX HD problem as being related to 5.1 vs. 2.0 sound. It comes from months of holding my breath each time I watched my Fusion tuner's software flip the indicator from 2.0 to 5.1 and vice versa.










(To tell you how long it goes back for ME, I was having this problem during regular season FOX NFL games... though the 8000HD's symptoms only happened in the past few days.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dweezilz, I have no beef with you and I am confident you understand what you are talking about. My first response was written as a question of clarification to you so you could explain it for yourself. I really didn't want your point to be lost or confused as it ended up happening. My second response (with references to simple math) was not directed to you but to hookbill who missed the point of my original question, which was directed to you anyway. Yes, my first example was not the best and probably attributed to the confusion.



Dweeziliz, see you had it wrong. It was me that he was calling an idiot not you.




















JUST KIDDING










Chill out dudes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Noticed my boxes were powered off when I came home this evening. Haven't checked yet, but I believe that means my software was downgraded too.
> 
> 
> If Adelphia is reading this - I can do without the 4th FF as long as "Play from beginning" is there and it doesn't go back when a recording ends.



Well, the play from beginning isn't there and I agree, that was the more important of the two.


One observation I did notice last night. While I was watching a recorded show the little blip came on 2 minutes before the recording saying what show was going to be recorded. Usually it only shows one show but last night it actually did 2 blips and showed the names of both shows that were getting ready to record.


Not a big deal, just something I noticed.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I think NBC has the levels right. Most television is broadcast at far too HIGH a level. In order to maintain that level without distortion, the broadcasters have to use extreme compression, leaving no room for dynamics at all. By using a lower average level, the network can provide the full dynamics of the audio of the event.


I suspect that the lower levels are largely because we are dealing with European crews who haven't "learned" to use the extreme audio compression that is so typical in US broadcasts. This phenomenon started decades ago with commercials, then gradually expanded into the regular broadcast audio.


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, the play from beginning isn't there and I agree, that was the more important of the two.
> 
> 
> One observation I did notice last night. While I was watching a recorded show the little blip came on 2 minutes before the recording saying what show was going to be recorded. Usually it only shows one show but last night it actually did 2 blips and showed the names of both shows that were getting ready to record.
> 
> 
> Not a big deal, just something I noticed.



Any word from your contact on when we'll get the new version back? Catching up on the Olympics worked great with that PFB feature.


As for two shows - did you see them in one box or two seperate boxes. I've seen the two seperate boxes several times and didn't think anything of it. One observations I did have - when we did have the upgraded software - those notice boxes seemed to linger a bit longer. I seem to recall the box only popping up for a few seconds, but with the upgrade the box lingered for about 15-20 seconds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any word from your contact on when we'll get the new version back? Catching up on the Olympics worked great with that PFB feature.
> 
> 
> As for two shows - did you see them in one box or two seperate boxes. I've seen the two seperate boxes several times and didn't think anything of it. One observations I did have - when we did have the upgraded software - those notice boxes seemed to linger a bit longer. I seem to recall the box only popping up for a few seconds, but with the upgrade the box lingered for about 15-20 seconds.



I don't want to be a pia to her so I don't call her unless we are having something that is a critical issue and I know customer service will be clueless.


Yes, they were in 2 seperate boxes appearing one right after another. Perhaps I just didn't notice.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With all that is happening in the world of consumer electronics I would not be surprised if a receiver DID go by different rules than the rest of the world and I certainly did not mean to imply that you were some sort of idiot. I was merely trying to figure out what you meant by "-" having a different meaning.
> 
> 
> Dweezilz, I have no beef with you and I am confident you understand what you are talking about. My first response was written as a question of clarification to you so you could explain it for yourself. I really didn't want your point to be lost or confused as it ended up happening. My second response (with references to simple math) was not directed to you but to hookbill who missed the point of my original question, which was directed to you anyway. Yes, my first example was not the best and probably attributed to the confusion.
> 
> 
> This response made me concerned and I wanted to make sure this was clairifed whether or not you were available to clarify it first.
> 
> 
> So to expand on, and agree with what you (Dweezilz) have said:
> 
> The negative symbol has equal meaning whether talking about main system volume or speaker volume. The value, whether positive or negative, is relative to a base value which is different when talking about main system level and the speaker level.
> 
> 
> The main system volume is displayed (on some receivers) as the number of decibels the volume is attenuated from the full amplification power of the receiver with 0dB being full (non-attenuated) amplification. As the decibels decrease the system volume decreases and vice versa (i.e. -25dB is louder than -40dB).
> 
> 
> From there you can individually tailor each speaker's volume by setting its dB level lesser or greater than 0dB where 0dB is equal to the system level.
> 
> 
> Sorry for offending, just needed to draw some attention.



Hey, no problem man. It's very easy to misinterpret stuff via typed text. Obviously we both did that to some extent. Ya just gotta be careful with sarcasm as it can come off very poorly & not the way you intended and I just took it the wrong way. I know you are saying you were being serious with the "rules of the world" thing, but it was what it was...a sarcastic remark that you didn't intend to come off the way it did. Actually as you hopefully now see, I wasn't refering to the physical or mathmatical properties of the negative sign being differnt for system volume compared to individual speaker volume settings. I was just refering to one being a subtraction from another number (or addition to), while the other is actually the volume level for the system. One is an actual volume level while the other is tweaking the main setting for one speaker. That's the different 'meaning' for each but I just didn't explain it as well as I could of (Hookbill somehow got it







). See how easy that is to get confused? Anyway, it's in the past so let's go forward.


You are right, my wording was a bit confusing with that statement you quoted as well. I didn't realize that's what you were refering to (you didn't quote it previously) and was only responding to the whole negative is different than the rest of the world thing.







What basically happened there is that in typing quickly, since our brains are so tuned in to POSITIVE numbers, that in describing going from -40 to -20 in my haste to type quickly, I typed in that it was going down in numbers when obviously -40 to -20 is going up. It can be confusing you have to admit...the actual number gets smaller without regard to negative or positive and we just don't deal with negative numbers that much in our daily routines that it just came out wrong. Heck, I had just got done saying that I had to make it louder by going from -40 to -20, so maybe just saying "hey Dweezilz, I think you mistakenly said that backwards" might have avoided the misunderstanding.


So, I hope that explains it & we can go forward. No harm, no foul ; we'll all buddies again & now everyone understands the whole db's issue which is a good thing. I little sidebar lesson here in the Cleveland thread. ha!!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dweeziliz, see you had it wrong. It was me that he was calling an idiot not you.
> 
> 
> JUST KIDDING
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chill out dudes.



HA! That's funny. It's all good now. Ironically, you actually understood what I was saying. Maybe two idiots understand each other better.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think NBC has the levels right. Most television is broadcast at far too HIGH a level. In order to maintain that level without distortion, the broadcasters have to use extreme compression, leaving no room for dynamics at all. By using a lower average level, the network can provide the full dynamics of the audio of the event.
> 
> 
> I suspect that the lower levels are largely because we are dealing with European crews who haven't "learned" to use the extreme audio compression that is so typical in US broadcasts. This phenomenon started decades ago with commercials, then gradually expanded into the regular broadcast audio.



Yeah, I guess that could be. So would this apply to DD DVD content as well because for DVD's on my system, I'm usually around -36db's to -40db's, not -20dbs. They are definately lower volume than most TV shows, but still no where near as low as the Olympics have been. It does make some sense that feeds coming from Europe might not be using a standard that is used for most DVD and TV content in the USA. The only thing is, wouldn't all of that stuff be NBC's equipment and come from America?


----------



## Inundated

Good news and bad news again...


Whatever change WJW made the other day means my 8000HD is no longer hiccuping during FOX HD programming.


Unfortunately, my Fusion is still choking at the splicer transition.










WJW Engineer, if you're still around here...can you provide insight into what you did that fixed things for Adelphia? If you just rolled back a version or two in the splicer software, that's probably why it didn't work for my Fusion, as it's been having the problem since I got it in Novemberish. I just don't know what could be causing it to still crash.


----------



## Inundated

Another topic: QAM channel 88.1 is still lit up on Adelphia with the FOX Sports Ohio HD feed. But instead of upconverted digital of the regular FSN Ohio feed, it's a constant billboard for Rainbow network TOC:


----------



## Inundated

And still more...for whatever reason, on my old USDigital tuner, I'm getting a spotty, sometimes viewable signal out of WOAC-DT (47). Judging by the signal strength, I'd assume this is still their STA (out in Kent, across the road from WNIR/WAOH-LP at 76 and 43). Their full power DT signal should be visible on anything whenever it gets up...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whatever change WJW made the other day means my 8000HD is no longer hiccuping during FOX HD programming.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, my Fusion is still choking at the splicer transition.



Have you checked to see if there are any software updates available?


----------



## clevemkt

WOAC has been installing their full-power transmitter for the last few months. They may be testing it now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you checked to see if there are any software updates available?



You obviously don't have a Fusion.










They put out software updates/betas/etc. every other day. OK, maybe not that often...


I do have whatever their latest software is (3.3). We have a very active thread about the Fusion in the section of this forum dedicated to Home Theatre Computers and we've talked about this FOX HD splicer problem at length. The problem has been there since I've had the thing, which came with version 3.11. One note: it apparently is not widespread, but I'm not the only one who's had the problem. It might be a market-specific thing.


My latest tack is to record samples of this, and upload them to the DVICO engineers. I'm in the process of doing this even as we speak. I was just hoping the WJW engineering folks could provide some insight as to what changes were actually made, and any information on just what happens (electronically) when the splicer kicks back and forth between the network and local...i.e. what could possibly be sent out that would throw the Fusion for a loop, and earlier, the Adelphia DVRs.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOAC has been installing their full-power transmitter for the last few months. They may be testing it now.



I think it was more atmospheric conditions...it really wasn't strong enough to be the full power unit. From what I remember, that'd be 1000KW, which should blow the doors off my tuners here.


----------



## dak0ta11

Does anybody know what happened to the digital channels on Time Warner NEO (channel 600s)?? I went to tune in tonight and they were gone!


Thanks.


----------



## dak0ta11

I found out why Time Warner NEO removed the 600's. They making all of their channels digital! It's about time!


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I had the opportunity to do some comparisons this afternoon, with 3 college basketball games being on at the same time. I was mainly watching the Buckeyes on WUAB-DT, but during breaks, I flipped to UK-South Carolina on WOIO-DT and VT-NC State on WEWS-DT.


The WOIO-DT game was in HD and looked excellent, as it always does.


The Buckeyes game on WUAB-DT was in SD but looked pretty good.


The game on WEWS-DT was also in SD and looked awful. It kind of looked like an analog signal suffering from multipath with ghosted images. The graphics especially looked bad.


The SD signal on WUAB-DT did not look nearly as bad. It did not have the ghosting bluriness and the graphics were readable.


I remember reading about this problem before on WEWS. I think Inundated mentioned that he was trying to contact somebody there to see if they could fix this. Inundated, did you ever hear anything out of them? I cannot believe that they continue to allow such a poor digital signal to be broadcast.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I remember reading about this problem before on WEWS. I think Inundated mentioned that he was trying to contact somebody there to see if they could fix this. Inundated, did you ever hear anything out of them? I cannot believe that they continue to allow such a poor digital signal to be broadcast.



Channel 5 apparently doesn't listen to me.










Can you drop them a note, or better yet, call their Engineering department? Or any of the other folks who've reported this problem (which I saw again today, too)? I believe their number is 216-431-5555...if they heard about this from more people than just me, maybe they'd pay attention, and you stated the problem very eloquently.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dak0ta11* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I found out why Time Warner NEO removed the 600's. They making all of their channels digital! It's about time!



Adelphia is doing the same, too. Right now, only the network affiliates are digital on the non-HD side. They have some "placeholders" like your 600 series for all the other channels (in the 800s), but haven't populated any of them except the network affiliates yet.


Adelphia actually just signed a contract with a company to provide equipment to do the "digital substitution". I'm guessing it's the same company that makes the equipment they're using in Cleveland, but they may have only been testing the process before.


----------



## Inundated

UPDATE! My problem with FOX HD locking up on my Fusion HDTV5USB tuner is now fixed, at least on my desktop computer. It's the same problem that was showing up for Adelphia DVR users until WJW's engineering folks made some adjustments.


It turns out that the problem only happens when you're using the "non-accelerated" video drivers for the Fusion. If you use their driver for accelerated video cards (DxVA), it does not appear. I don't know how to fix the problem on non-accelerated video, but at least I know what is a cause of it and what to get them to look at. And since the Fusion is on my desktop computer downstairs, that means I can just leave it this way.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> UPDATE! My problem with FOX HD locking up on my Fusion HDTV5USB tuner is now fixed, at least on my desktop computer. It's the same problem that was showing up for Adelphia DVR users until WJW's engineering folks made some adjustments.
> 
> 
> It turns out that the problem only happens when you're using the "non-accelerated" video drivers for the Fusion. If you use their driver for accelerated video cards (DxVA), it does not appear. I don't know how to fix the problem on non-accelerated video, but at least I know what is a cause of it and what to get them to look at. And since the Fusion is on my desktop computer downstairs, that means I can just leave it this way.



I'm glad your alright with this. I have to admit I was a bit worried that something they may do to help you might screw us up again.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad your alright with this. I have to admit I was a bit worried that something they may do to help you might screw us up again.



Nah, no one was even listening to me on this problem until it hit Adelphia. Then it became "holy crap, it's not just one guy with a USB tuner card!"...


Now, on to bug WEWS...!


----------



## paule123

Is there anybody here with Wide Open West that has seen the new Fox Sports Ohio HD (aka Cavs HD) in their guide yet? The press release said it's supposed to be on channel 220, but it's not showing in my IPG. Hopefully we get it turned on before the game on Wednesday...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there anybody here with Wide Open West that has seen the new Fox Sports Ohio HD (aka Cavs HD) in their guide yet? The press release said it's supposed to be on channel 220, but it's not showing in my IPG. Hopefully we get it turned on before the game on Wednesday...



While I'm not on WOW, maybe I can help










There is no 24/7 feed of "FOX Sports Ohio HD". It appears that they're offering only the Cavs games, and not sending up the rest of the FSN Ohio programming even in upconverted mode.


The channel on Adelphia, which hasn't shown up yet in our guides (798), exists right now as an unencrypted QAM channel (RF 88.1). Somewhere up the thread, I think, I posted the screen capture of the Rainbow video billboard that's on that channel when the Cavs aren't on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7147978 


("Rainbow Programming" is the former corporate parent of the FSN channels.) They aren't gonna open it up for that. So, my guess is that WOW won't send out 220 until the game is on - maybe the night before they'll push it to the boxes or something.


I get the idea that FSN is just doing it this way for now, sending the occasional game feeds out. It's not like ESPN-HD, where they upconvert the analog programming the rest of the time.


----------



## mrblond128

Sorry if this has been discussed, but does anyone know where I can find info on when D* will offer locals in Cleveland?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrblond128* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been discussed, but does anyone know where I can find info on when D* will offer locals in Cleveland?



I've got to admit, I was going to make some smart aleck remark, as it felt like the topic was just discussed on here. But when I started going backwards in the thread, I realized just how much is discussed since then. Wow. Thanks everybody.


Anyway, it's been suggested that May sounds about right for the rollout.


And if you want to read the posts about D* locals in HD, click here. There are a couple of posts just before this spot, and there are a couple after.


----------



## mrblond128




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got to admit, I was going to make some smart aleck remark, as it felt like the topic was just discussed on here. But when I started going backwards in the thread, I realized just how much is discussed since then. Wow. Thanks everybody.
> 
> 
> Anyway, it's been suggested that May sounds about right for the rollout.
> 
> 
> And if you want to read the posts about D* locals in HD, click here. There are a couple of posts just before this spot, and there are a couple after.



Thanks for the info...and for withholding the smart aleck response.


----------



## hookbill

Tonight my SA 8300 recorded only 30 minutes of "Cold Case" and 25 minutes of "Desperate Housewives."


I've been keeping a close eye on this and I saw the entire shows, both of them record (red recording light on). They were the only recordings I had for those time slots tonight. But when I brought up the playlist it was showing only partial recordings. The first part.


I've been having a problem with this for some time, long before the FOX issue. It started about the time the new season started in the Fall. That also happens to be about the time I got an external hard drive. It only happens during primetime on network shows. It never happens with INHD, or HBO-HD.


I've discussed this in every 8300 forum and nobody else seems to have this problem but me. So I'm asking anyone locally who recorded either of those shows last night in HD to let me know if you got the entire recording. I think there has got to be a problem with the Maxtor External Hard Drive. I can't think of anything else. I've already switched out machines.


If anyone else had a problem or if your recording is fine, please let me know.


Again, it's showing the enitre episode recording. It's only after the recording finishes that the partial shows up.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tonight my SA 8300 recorded only 30 minutes of "Cold Case" and 25 minutes of "Desperate Housewives."



Sorry, hookbill, but Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me last night. I've never tried myself so I have no idea if this is a viable option but have you tried contacting Scientific Atlanta directly if Adelphia won't do it for you?


Do you see any errors under the Software Anomalies section of the SARA Information diagnostics screen? Warnings, as you pointed out before, can be disregarded but I read somewhere that Errors represent a higher level of severity that might help debug the problem.


----------



## blipszyc

Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me, but the wife and I ware waiting to watch until I can torrent last weeks episode in an effort to watch without the annoying audio delay.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me, but the wife and I ware waiting to watch until I can torrent last weeks episode in an effort to watch without the annoying audio delay.



Didn't notice an audio delay on what was recorded.


We're not suppose to say the "t" word from what I've been told. PM me, I may have some info for ya.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, hookbill, but Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me last night. I've never tried myself so I have no idea if this is a viable option but have you tried contacting Scientific Atlanta directly if Adelphia won't do it for you?
> 
> 
> Do you see any errors under the Software Anomalies section of the SARA Information diagnostics screen? Warnings, as you pointed out before, can be disregarded but I read somewhere that Errors represent a higher level of severity that might help debug the problem.



What's so wierd about all this is I see the recording through until the end. It's only afterwards that it shows up as a partial.


Adelphia does not support the external hard drive so I can't get help from them. SA never helps anybody to the best of my knowledge they refer you to your cable company.


So I've disconnected the Maxtor External HD and I'll try recording without it. I'm pretty sure it's what's causing the problem.


I lose 500 gb of recording space because of this, but if it doesn't record correctly then I don't have much option.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The PQ issues with WEWS is not limited to their digital signal. During the College Football season I compaired the pictire from WEWS-DT with WEWS-TV. The same blurry scoreboard appeared on both feeds.


ABC entertainment programs look far better than ABC Sports programs on WEWS. So the problem is probably GIGO.


Once I get an outdoor antenna up, I may be able to compair WEWS with WYTV. If the same problem is seen from Yongstown, then we know that it's ABC's fault and not WEWS.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it was more atmospheric conditions...it really wasn't strong enough to be the full power unit. From what I remember, that'd be 1000KW, which should blow the doors off my tuners here.



Well I just locked onto WOAC-DT 47 for the very first time last night. I get a steady reading of 75 on my E* 921 using a Silver Sensor from SE Parma. Prior to last night I got only short "blips" of a signal and could never lock. Additionally, While I have a lock and can watch "Shop-at-Home" the EPG says "Rf 47" (insted of WOAC 67). So their PSIP is not set-up yet.


It would be neat if they started using their digital bandwidth to carry some entertaiment programming on a subchannel


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I just locked onto WOAC-DT 47 for the very first time last night. I get a steady reading of 75 on my E* 921 using a Silver Sensor from SE Parma. Prior to last night I got only short "blips" of a signal and could never lock. Additionally, While I have a lock and can watch "Shop-at-Home" the EPG says "Rf 47" (insted of WOAC 67). So their PSIP is not set-up yet.
> 
> 
> It would be neat if they started using their digital bandwidth to carry some entertaiment programming on a subchannel



I picked up WOAC this weekend (on 47.3) while fooling around with an indoor antenna so I could pick up WFMJ out of Y-town (the rotor on my outdoor antenna is not working and I cannot pick up WKYC-DT reliably). It is a low-level, but steady, signal.


I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for non-shopping programming from these guys - I believe WOAC is a Shop-at-Home O&O station.


BTW, I get a good solid signal from WFMJ-DT with my indoor antenna. Fortunately, I can point it out a window facing Y-town. Those guys put out a great signal! Would it be too much to hope that they sign an agreement to carry the Indians HD OTA games that WKYC is doing this season? I can dream, can't I?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I picked up WOAC this weekend (on 47.3) while fooling around with an indoor antenna so I could pick up WFMJ out of Y-town (the rotor on my outdoor antenna is not working and I cannot pick up WKYC-DT reliably). It is a low-level, but steady, signal.



Tonight, I just pointed the antenna towards Kent, not even out a window...and I'm getting the strongest signal I've ever gotten out of them. It's locking and steady at roughly 80ish% on my US Digital. It's not breaking up like the other night. Maybe they have the 1000KW stick up and running! Too bad there's nothing but home shopping on it.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, I get a good solid signal from WFMJ-DT with my indoor antenna. Fortunately, I can point it out a window facing Y-town. Those guys put out a great signal! Would it be too much to hope that they sign an agreement to carry the Indians HD OTA games that WKYC is doing this season? I can dream, can't I?



Don't laugh so quickly...when the Indians announced the WKYC deal, they made comments about wanting to air the OTA games in other markets, and I believe even in HD. I don't know which station they'd approach in Youngstown, though...it has nothing to do with WFMJ/WKYC's NBC affiliation.


I can't get WFMJ-DT here in northwest Akron (old Northampton Twp.) with an indoor antenna. I have no significant east facing, unfortunately. I'm fortunate that my loft window aims pretty much directly northwest at Parma.


I looked at WKBN-DT's application the other day, and the pattern looks like it could well provide decent service to parts of Akron when it gets up. It's even more powerful than WFMJ. WYTV, of course, is the straggler, as it pretty much always is in that market.


----------



## SteveC

I'm crossing my fingers that WKBN-DT does it right and implements 5.1 audio. I've pretty much given up hope of WOIO ever upgrading their equipment. Same for WUAB. I almost hope that WBNX gets the new CW affiliation because I would be willing to bet money that they will have 5.1 audio when they start broadcasting digitally this summer. Just a feeling.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I can't get WFMJ-DT here in northwest Akron (old Northampton Twp.)



Don't you mean "new" Cuyahoga Falls?










Are you in the valley or on fairly high ground? I can get WFMJ occasionally here in SE Parma using a Silver Sensor NOT aimed out a window. I can't wait for Spring, I have to put ou an outdoor antenna aimed at Y'Town. I'm hoping to get Y'town stations on a daily basis (I do get the analog WFMJ daily).


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't laugh so quickly...when the Indians announced the WKYC deal, they made comments about wanting to air the OTA games in other markets, and I believe even in HD. I don't know which station they'd approach in Youngstown, though...it has nothing to do with WFMJ/WKYC's NBC affiliation.



I didn't catch the comment about OTA in other markets. That would be great as long as the Y-town station's initials are NOT WKBN or WYTV!










Has anybody heard when WKBN-DT might be on the air?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked at WKBN-DT's application the other day, and the pattern looks like it could well provide decent service to parts of Akron when it gets up. It's even more powerful than WFMJ. WYTV, of course, is the straggler, as it pretty much always is in that market.



Yeah, I was hoping I might be able to catch WYTV with the indoor antenna and give myself an alternative to WEWS during SD programming. No chance - the signal is too weak.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't you mean "new" Cuyahoga Falls?



Actually, no...I'm in one of those little patches of land Akron annexed before the Falls went after the rest of Northampton Township...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you in the valley or on fairly high ground? I can get WFMJ occasionally here in SE Parma using a Silver Sensor NOT aimed out a window. I can't wait for Spring, I have to put ou an outdoor antenna aimed at Y'Town. I'm hoping to get Y'town stations on a daily basis (I do get the analog WFMJ daily).



My problem isn't being low (I'm not in the Valley, I'm above it), but the fact I have basically no clearance to the east/southeast. There are also too many trees, though I do get the Parma antenna farm stations going through clearing in some trees. I don't get any analog Youngstown reception here, either.


----------



## Inundated

FYI - WOAC-DT appears to be running less power than yesterday.


----------



## Inundated

Me again!


As promised, Adelphia has added HD channel 798, named "HDBON", which will carry the Cavaliers' game on Wednesday night. The channel shows "HD Promo" the rest of the time, but the game and the 6:30 pregame is in the guide data.


It also shows up on my Fusion HDTV tuner, correctly numbered 798 and with the HDBON channel name. I got there by tuning to 88.1 first, and it kicked me there. Neither the Fusion or the SA 8000HD have any video or audio at this time...not surprising, due to what I'd posted earlier about the nature of the "occasional feed" for the games...


----------



## k2rj

Last night I watched Boston Legal on WEWS-DT using the direct cable connection to my set while recording 2 other shows on my Adelphia SA8300HD. My wife and I noticed that the sound was out-of-sync with the video. I've heard of this happening before, but have never really experienced it before. I tuned to some other local channels and didn't see the out-of-sync audio. Did anyone else notice it? We watched Desperate Housewives the other night (through the 8300) and didn't notice it then...?!!


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...the sound was out-of-sync with the video. Did anyone else notice it?



It drove me up a wall!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night I watched Boston Legal on WEWS-DT using the direct cable connection to my set while recording 2 other shows on my Adelphia SA8300HD. My wife and I noticed that the sound was out-of-sync with the video. I've heard of this happening before, but have never really experienced it before. I tuned to some other local channels and didn't see the out-of-sync audio. Did anyone else notice it? We watched Desperate Housewives the other night (through the 8300) and didn't notice it then...?!!



Now this is really strange! I recorded DH on the 8300 and after reading your post took a look at it. Audio is out of synch there too.


This problem generally happens on HD broadcasts, specially lately with WEWS. But since you were watching it straight off your cable without the box interfacing that means you had to be watching the analog broadcast. To the best of my knowledge I've never seen a live analog broadcast with audio out of synch.


I think it would be a good idea for us to start calling WEWS and complaining about this. No doubt if it was analog they had to have had a flood of complaints last night.


Rijax, how were you watching it last night? Was it analog or digital or HD digital?


----------



## JJkizak

If you view (OTA) the Analog channel at the same time you are viewing the Digital channel (same program OTA with two tv's) you will see a delay in the video and the sound on the digital channel every time. It is no surprise to me that they get this all fouled up by pushing the wrong buttons.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you view (OTA) the Analog channel at the same time you are viewing the Digital channel (same program OTA with two tv's) you will see a delay in the video and the sound on the digital channel every time. It is no surprise to me that they get this all fouled up by pushing the wrong buttons.
> 
> 
> JJK



I can understand that if I was working the controls since I don't know what the hell I'm doing.







But supposedly they hire people with knowledge of how these things work, like WJW Engineer.


And I do see your point about the audio being off on the analog and digital. All you have to do is walk around my house where there is always two tv's on to see that. But it still doesn't explain the analog picture and video being out of synch.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rijax, how were you watching it last night? Was it analog or digital or HD digital?



HD Digital via Cox Cable. I should've gone over to the analog SD broadcast to see if the problem was there as well, but NO! I, for some inexplicable reason, chose to sit there and suffer.







I gather I was stuck in my "DAMMIT! I want my hi def" mode. DUH!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HD Digital via Cox Cable. I should've gone over to the analog SD broadcast to see if the problem was there as well, but NO! I, for some inexplicable reason, chose to sit there and suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gather I was stuck in my "DAMMIT! I want my hi def" mode. DUH!



Well this is interesting. We know it was messed up live hd, and analog on two different cable companies. I can also confirm that I have previewed another copy of this broadcast obtained let's just say, elsewhere, and it was not out of synch. So I think we can start pointing the finger at WEWS.


Oh, and I know exactly what you mean by the "stuck in HD mode." Almost got stuck there myself today before I thought of a solution.


----------



## rrobbins

I was watching WEWS OTA HD last night an the audio was off by at least second and maybe more. I reverted to analog where there was not a problem


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now this is really strange! I recorded DH on the 8300 and after reading your post took a look at it. Audio is out of synch there too.
> 
> 
> This problem generally happens on HD broadcasts, specially lately with WEWS. But since you were watching it straight off your cable without the box interfacing that means you had to be watching the analog broadcast. To the best of my knowledge I've never seen a live analog broadcast with audio out of synch.



It is entirely possible that k2rj was watching the digital broadcast of Boston Legal with the cable connected directly to the HDTV via QAM capable tuner. The report from rrobbins would lead me to believe the analog was correct while other reports say the digital signal is out of sync.


Important question...

Has WEWS started broadcasting in 5.1 recently? From reports, I have read, this problem has only been happening for the past several weeks (read as: this is a new problem). The ABC affiliate in Cinci had audio sync problems due to their HDTV encoder and their DD encoder combination. WCPO-DT recently (Jan 06) installed a new HDTV encoder to solve this sync issue, but have not yet engaged their 5.1 encoder since they discovered the problem (Nov 05) to see if they have fixed it yet.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now this is really strange! ...But since you were watching it straight off your cable without the box interfacing that means you had to be watching the analog broadcast.



I was watching it straight off the cable, but in HD, not analog. (My HDTV has an ATSC digital tuner.)


Very strange about your recording of DH... I can't say I was looking for out-of-sync audio when we were watching it, but I definately believe I (or my wife) would have noticed it. This was Monday's DH we were watching, not Sunday's (which I believe is its normal day.)


----------



## Commodore 64




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It drove me up a wall!



I recorded it last night and noticed the same thing! I thought my SageTV install was acting up.


----------



## handsworth

Long time, no see. How's everyone.


CAV'S GAME IN HD. ADELPHIA CHANNEL 798 . As I understand, this not a 24 hr channel but certain events. Here's the schedule so far


Day Date Opponent Begins


Wednesday Feb. 22 @ Philadelphia 76ers 6:30 PM


Friday Feb. 24 Washington Wizards 7:00 PM


Monday Feb. 27 Detroit Pistons 6:30 PM


Tuesday Mar. 07 Toronto Raptors 6:30 PM


Wednesday Mar. 29 Dallas Mavericks 6:30 PM


Sunday Apr. 02 @ Charlotte Bobcats 5:30 PM


Tuesday Apr. 04 Philadelphia 76ers 6:30 PM


Monday Apr. 10 @ New Orleans Hornets 7:30 PM


----------



## Michael P 2341

WEWS has been out of sync more often than not. I have been watching the OTA Digital signal for over a year now. I suffered through their experiments with 15 X 9 stretch aspect ratio on SD programming.


What I'm saying is the out of sync problem is not new. Their audio sync problems date back to nearly the beginning of my experience receiveing OTA digital broadcasts (although WEAO had the worst case of audio sync problems back in Dec '04).

I would not get my hopes up about WEWS getting 5.1 equipment or blaming that equipment for the audio sync problem. If it was the 5.1 equipment causing the sync problems then WEWS must have had 5.1 from the beginning.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

i have never seen 5.1 out of sync, but I will admit that my watching of them is limited to MNF and other sports.


so who knows???


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

on another note, how do the cavs look?


----------



## jtscherne

Pre-game was SD. The picture quality looks good (Reghi's makeup looks very thick!)


----------



## ted_b

The HD picture look somewhat soft on WOW, at least on my CRT pj, but then again so do the Cavs. Wow, they look tired and slow. Backcourt is O-fer for the night.


----------



## Inundated

Hmmm. Cavs in HD on Adelphia 798. I think I've heard that somewhere before.


----------



## Inundated

Other news from elsewhere: Cleveland is officially on the "upcoming list" for DirecTV's HD "Local into Local" service, one of 24 markets set to get the HD locals "starting in April":

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...72#post7182772


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The HD picture look somewhat soft on WOW, at least on my CRT pj, but then again so do the Cavs. Wow, they look tired and slow. Backcourt is O-fer for the night.



Hey Ted, so channel 220 was up on WOW tonight for the Cavs HD? I got home too late to check, and I don't see channel 220 in my on screen program guide...


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ted, so channel 220 was up on WOW tonight for the Cavs HD? I got home too late to check, and I don't see channel 220 in my on screen program guide...



Yep, it came up as FSN Ohio on Channel 220. It was a decent picture, just a bit soft, especially on the full court shots. Nothing too bad, though. The game sucked, however. Then I went into my home office in the next room to do some emails, etc. When the broadcast finished that Rainbow screen came up and WOW, the bass and volume blasted like crazy, with a repetitive tape loop thing going on. It was clearly 10-20 db louder than the game.


----------



## Pucky

Did anyone else notice an abundance of bass during the Cavs game? The normal thumps and music in an NBA arena were really pumping through my sub. I had no other problems on any other programming, but almost turned down my sub manually during the Cavs game. I'm on Adelphia.


----------



## ted_b

Yes, it was rather boomy, and carried a lot of spurious bass....like during oncourt timeout analysis, I could hear my subs rumbling, but not sure to what. Then, as I mentioned, when the Rainbow screen came on, look out.


----------



## Telosian

I also noticed the heavy bass but I was impressed with the live court sounds, tennis shoe squeaks, rim noise, etc. I am on Adelphia and assuming it was a 5.1 track but the bass was way overdriven. How and why would you do that? I'm trying to think of what the audio engineer had to have done to create this problem. Were they putting in a bass heavy EQ to make the announcers heavier? Puzzling.


----------



## Inundated

My Fusion tuner showed the Cavs game with 5.1. I don't have a HT setup, so I didn't hear it directly.


----------



## jtscherne

The Indians announced that the new network will show all home games in HD.

SportsTime Ohio News Release


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Indians announced that the new network will show all home games in HD.
> 
> SportsTime Ohio News Release



Fox 8 News at something on this but unfortunately I didn't get to see it.


But it looks pretty positive that most of us will get it by opening day. 10% won't? Hmmm...I'd bet that's going to be either Dish or Direct or both.


By the way guys....It's good to be back I spent the night in the hospital last night. Amongst all the other tortures I had to put up with a 19" tv screen, analog cable, and my sound system consisted of a little speaker attached to a remote control that was probably made around 1950.










Anyway, everything turned out fine and I got released today. They were concerened I might have had a heart problem but turns out OK.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But it looks pretty positive that most of us will get it by opening day. 10% won't? Hmmm...I'd bet that's going to be either Dish or Direct or both.



And Cox, which has come out playing hardball (so to speak) with a website urging folks to lobby the Indians and "make them play fair"... (re: programming costs)


As far as Adelphia goes, I'm still not optimistic that they'll figure it out before the TWC merger. But note that the new "HDBON" channel on Adelphia (798), where the Cavaliers HD games now air, is actually called that because it's called "HD BONUS". It'd be a pretty easy place to put HD Indians games to be broadcast by SportsTime Ohio...


----------



## Inundated

Sony starts offering reruns of "Seinfeld" in HD on March 27th...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7191214 


I wonder if WJW will pick these up...it'd sure be a natural, since Seinfeld runs right after their HD 10 PM news. Of course, I'm not sure if they have the rights to the show into the fall...


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, everything turned out fine and I got released today. They were concerened I might have had a heart problem but turns out OK.



good to hear everything's ok(we need u here). Your photo icon disappeared. Maybe you're updating. I've been meaning to put one up but haven't yet.

Who fed the birds when u were gone??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> good to hear everything's ok(we need u here). Your photo icon disappeared. Maybe you're updating. I've been meaning to put one up but haven't yet.
> 
> Who fed the birds when u were gone??



Thanks for well wishes. Wife took care of birds. Hey, I was only gone a day but when you gotta put up with that type of equipment and the usual poking and stuff they do at a hospital, it's good to be home.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for well wishes. Wife took care of birds. Hey, I was only gone a day but when you gotta put up with that type of equipment and the usual poking and stuff they do at a hospital, it's good to be home.



I'm glad you're home and out of the hospital as well...as you noted, the TV sucks!


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as Adelphia goes, I'm still not optimistic that they'll figure it out before the TWC merger. But note that the new "HDBON" channel on Adelphia (798), where the Cavaliers HD games now air, is actually called that because it's called "HD BONUS". It'd be a pretty easy place to put HD Indians games to be broadcast by SportsTime Ohio...



I went to the new website and sent a comment about Adelphia. However, the thing is set to only allow 250 characters per comment, so I had to be quite precise....


----------



## Telosian

Welcome back Hookbill! Glad you are OK.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went to the new website and sent a comment about Adelphia. However, the thing is set to only allow 250 characters per comment, so I had to be quite precise....



Perhaps we're not SOL afterall:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...-adelphia.html 


I'll believe it when I see that channel in my lineup, though.


*EDIT* Here's the relevant paragraph from the Westlife article -- _Talks are ongoing with the major satellite companies as well as other Westshore cable operators such as Adelphia and Wide Open West, Liberatore said. Time Warner Cable, which already has a deal inked with the Indians network, is scheduled to purchase Adelphia's Northeast Ohio systems this summer. *However, until that takeover is finalized, Liberatore said Adelphia is being dealt with separately.*_


----------



## ted_b

Here's what WOW cable responded with:

---------------------------------------------

Thank you for contacting Wow Internet and Cable,


The Cleveland Indians intend to operate a regional sports network in Ohio. While there are no specific details for this new channel yet, WOW fully intends to carry this channel. This new network is NOT exclusive to Time Warner and the Indians will be working with all of the cable and satellite providers in their region to provide Indians baseball to the most subscribers possible.



If you have any other problems or questions, please contact us at:


1-866-496-9669

--------------------------------------------


Lame dated form response


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Perhaps we're not SOL afterall:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...-adelphia.html
> 
> 
> I'll believe it when I see that channel in my lineup, though.



Well, we're going to get it, it's just a question as to how soon.


FWIW, I got a letter in the mail from Adelphia saying they know that I've been overjoyed (choke!) with my DVR box and all it's great "features" but I was one of the first to try it so I got it for free and now they "have" to charge an additional 4.95 come June.










What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?


Fine.....If all goes according to plan HD locals on D* will be available around May and I can tell Adelphia to take it's 4.95 and put it where the sun don't shine.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, we're going to get it, it's just a question as to how soon.
> 
> 
> FWIW, I got a letter in the mail from Adelphia saying they know that I've been overjoyed (choke!) with my DVR box and all it's great "features" but I was one of the first to try it so I got it for free and now they "have" to charge an additional 4.95 come June.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?
> 
> 
> Fine.....If all goes according to plan HD locals on D* will be available around May and I can tell Adelphia to take it's 4.95 and put it where the sun don't shine.




Don't feel bad, Wide Open West is charging me $12.99 a month for the crappy SA8000HD with a DVI port that doesn't work. And no SA8300HD's are on the horizon, either.


Add to that $9.99/mo for the basic HD Tier. We have ESPNHD but we still don't have ESPN2HD !


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't feel bad, Wide Open West is charging me $12.99 a month for the crappy SA8000HD with a DVI port that doesn't work. And no SA8300HD's are on the horizon, either.
> 
> 
> Add to that $9.99/mo for the basic HD Tier. We have ESPNHD but we still don't have ESPN2HD !



What's wrong with your DVI port?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's wrong with your DVI port?



Didn't work with an NEC 42" ED (but it wasn't HDCP compliant so I sort of expected that)

Didn't work with a Panny 42" ED with the DVI blade

Didn't work with a Panny 42" HD

Didn't work with a Panny 50" HD (latest generation that came out in 2005)

Didn't work with a Dell 20" LCD TV


I've tried all the goofy variations of powering this on and that off in such and such a sequence to get the HDCP handshake to work, standing on one leg with a tin foil hat on, etc. etc., and nothing. It's ridiculous.


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Didn't work with an NEC 42" ED (but it wasn't HDCP compliant so I sort of expected that)
> 
> Didn't work with a Panny 42" ED with the DVI blade
> 
> Didn't work with a Panny 42" HD
> 
> Didn't work with a Panny 50" HD (latest generation that came out in 2005)
> 
> Didn't work with a Dell 20" LCD TV
> 
> 
> I've tried all the goofy variations of powering this on and that off in such and such a sequence to get the HDCP handshake to work, standing on one leg with a tin foil hat on, etc. etc., and nothing. It's ridiculous.



Mine worked first time, everytime, going through my DVI-VGA converter. The only time it shows HDCP message is using it through a Denon 4806 (cuz the Denon doesn't let seem to let go of the original handshake). The Dtronics DVI two way switcher, though, is all I need, and reestablishes handshake.


For kicks try unplugging from iec connector in back (i.e hard reboot). Then once back up, reconnect to display device. Also try hard boot while staying connected to tv.


----------



## bassguitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, we're going to get it, it's just a question as to how soon.
> 
> 
> FWIW, I got a letter in the mail from Adelphia saying they know that I've been overjoyed (choke!) with my DVR box and all it's great "features" but I was one of the first to try it so I got it for free and now they "have" to charge an additional 4.95 come June.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?
> 
> 
> Fine.....If all goes according to plan HD locals on D* will be available around May and I can tell Adelphia to take it's 4.95 and put it where the sun don't shine.



So I wonder if that box is required for HD thus rasing my HD rate another 5 bux a month. If so I may tell them to shove it too and join D*.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I wonder if that box is required for HD thus rasing my HD rate another 5 bux a month. If so I may tell them to shove it too and join D*.



The problem with D* is you're getting HDLite. Cable still wins in the HD PQ dept. I did the math because I was thinking about switching from WOW to D* and D* was only about $10/mo cheaper in the long run AND you have to buy their HD DVR outright, no monthly lease plan. For me it's not worth it to save $10/mo and get inferior PQ, plus I'd have to add 4 or 5 D* receivers for each TV in the house.


Not to mention we don't have HD locals on D* just yet, which is something I gotta have (life is too short to screw around with an OTA antenna anymore) I also really wonder if D*'s new magical MPEG4 format is really going to be as good as HD on cable.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?



Nothing is definite as far as a timeline, because they still have to get FCC approval (expected) and for that matter, all the various local franchise agreements approved (no idea, but presumably expected).


I hear they are shooting for May 31st, though. But until that time, Adelphia still has to act as if nothing is going to happen. Thus, the letter you received. Adelphia can't legally say "we're not going to do anything, because we won't exist". It may also take some time for TWC to adjust rates to be in line with their own rates.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem with D* is you're getting HDLite. Cable still wins in the HD PQ dept. I did the math because I was thinking about switching from WOW to D* and D* was only about $10/mo cheaper in the long run AND you have to buy their HD DVR outright, no monthly lease plan. For me it's not worth it to save $10/mo and get inferior PQ, plus I'd have to add 4 or 5 D* receivers for each TV in the house.
> 
> 
> Not to mention we don't have HD locals on D* just yet, which is something I gotta have (life is too short to screw around with an OTA antenna anymore) I also really wonder if D*'s new magical MPEG4 format is really going to be as good as HD on cable.



Over in the TiVo Forum I read a thread about comparison with OTA vs D* HD. It pretty much verifies what you say, it's a "sort of" HD picture.


I've now have had my External HD drive disconnected for 7 days and my 8300 has not missed a recording or recorded only a partial, so I have to believe that the Maxtor 500 External HD was part of the problem I was having. I'm back and forth now as to whether or not I will switch to D*. Even if they offer HD locals, if it isn't good quality I don't want it. Perhaps the MPEG format will help.


I really don't think there is a problem with the Maxtor 500 as I have read many people have success with it. Maybe I just purchased a bad unit. It seems however that while the whole show gets recorded for whatever reason the Maxtor 500 only retains a partial recording. Since I watch almost everything by time shift I have to let the Maxtor go.


----------



## k2rj

Contact Maxtor about it... They may offer a replacement under warranty.


----------



## Michael P 2341

After reading on a different thread abouot how The Tube looks bad on a different market's station I went to The Tube's web site and posted a comment.


I got a reply and I replied to that reply. I thought some of you might be interested (thanks to Inundated for his Tube screen shot many pages back in this thread)


> Quote:
> Ali,
> 
> Thank you for your quick reply!
> 
> 
> The problem I'm seeing is on almost all content on the tube, not just older
> 
> videos. The technical name for the probelm is "pixillation".
> 
> Pixillation is seen on The Tube whenever there is fast movment in the picture.
> 
> Pixillation appears as blocks in the picture. The picture qualilty is like
> 
> watching streaming video over the internet with a low-bandwidth connection. The
> 
> quality is not up to television standards.
> 
> 
> A fellow poster on the AVS Forums took this screen shot off WUAB-DT 43.2 http:/
> 
> / members.aol.com/inundated99/images/thetube.jpg
> 
> 
> Another poster said he talked with an engineer form his local Tube affilliate (I
> 
> believe he was in Cincinnati, but I can't find the posting to give you a direct
> 
> quote). Anyway the engineer said that the picture is coming in with the
> 
> pixillation. So perhaps some quality control measures need to be taken at the
> 
> source of The Tube.
> 
> 
> Anything you can do to help fix this probem would be great - for us the current
> 
> viewers as well as for The Tube as a network. As more potential viewers get the
> 
> equipment to watch subchannels as well as the digital cable systems that are
> 
> carrying The Tube, picture quality will be factor for many who may tune out when
> 
> the picture gets bad. Believe me it does get real bad a times.
> 
> 
> Thanks again and I hope you can get to the bottom of this problem,
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> 
> Hello Mike,
> 
> Thank you for your email. I checked with our local affiliate and they are
> 
> not squeezing our signal so perhaps what you are seeing is because much of
> 
> our content is older and the quality of image is not as sharp.
> 
> We appreciate hearing from you and are certainly pleased to hear that you
> 
> have already found the new Tube Music Network, the ONLY all music channel on
> 
> television! We love hearing from you because The Tube is all about the music
> 
> and you. But don't just tell us... tell your friends...write your local
> 
> music critics...spread the word!
> 
> And of course, keep watching!
> 
> 
> 
> Ali Stephens-Bibeau
> 
> Marketing and Promotions Manager
> 
> The Tube Music Network
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 PM
> 
> To: [email protected]
> 
> Subject:
> 
> 
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> 
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the music mix.
> 
> 
> I hate the picture!
> 
> 
> Please use less digital compresion. Other local digital TV stations with
> 
> subchannels have a superior picture to The Tube. The HD pictures on the
> 
> other stations are not affected by their subchannels, so please CRANK UP THE
> 
> BANDWIDTH!
> 
> 
> Parma
> 
> 
> OH
> 
> 
> 51
> 
> 
> WUAB-DT 43-2


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Contact Maxtor about it... They may offer a replacement under warranty.



For some reason I thought it was out of warranty, but upon further investigation it is warranted until July.










I'll give them a call on Monday and try and get an RMA.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The HD picture look somewhat soft on WOW, at least on my CRT pj, but then again so do the Cavs. Wow, they look tired and slow. Backcourt is O-fer for the night.



Got to see the Cavs game in HD on WOW channel 220 Friday night and the PQ was pretty good, but I thought the center court camera was a bit soft. Good DD5.1 sound mix, and the way the rims were miked, my sub would boom on a good slam dunk!


Also nice to see the pre-game show was produced 16:9 with HD content.


Channel 220 seems to be staying in the IPG now. Coincidentally my box is not getting a power-off signal every night as it was before. SARA is still showing the same version as before, so that wasn't updated (I think it's 1.87.xxxxx)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For some reason I thought it was out of warranty, but upon further investigation it is warranted until July.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give them a call on Monday and try and get an RMA.



This is pure speculation, but there might not be a problem with the hard drive at all, it could be that as your drive is filling up and/or getting more fragmented, the operating system inside the set top box can't handle it and it's getting slow.


Based on my experience with the less than stellar SA8000HD's performance, it wouldn't surprise me if Scientific Atlanta never really tested their boxes fully loaded with 300GB - 500GB worth of data in real world everyday use.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is pure speculation, but there might not be a problem with the hard drive at all, it could be that as your drive is filling up and/or getting more fragmented, the operating system inside the set top box can't handle it and it's getting slow.



I thought of that a long, long time ago. I reformatted both hard drives to defrag. I have also taken my original SA 8300 back and got a replacement. I defraged it before I even used it.


Proof is in the pudding: No external hd, no problem. Add external hd, problem.


And I agree with what you say about SA not testing good enough, still Maxtor claims this hd will work with SA 8300 and is made specifically for SA 8300 only.


When I get my RMA and turn this in hoperfully I will get a good replacement. If the problem occures again, well.....I guess I'm screwed.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm back and forth now as to whether or not I will switch to D*. Even if they offer HD locals, if it isn't good quality I don't want it. Perhaps the MPEG format will help.



I've heard that D*'s HD channels will be transmitted on a new Ka-band satellite at 17-22Ghz. Besides the new 5-LNB dish that's required, the higher frequency is probably going to be more susceptible to rain fade and other atmospherics.


----------



## hookbill

OK, guys this is way off topic but since so many of us are going to be affected by this I'm kind of wondering. What is going to happen with the email address? Assuming it won't be [email protected] . What if your handle's already being used somewhere in road runner land?


Just something else to stress out on.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Target date for WKBN-DT: May 1. A post from their chief engineer on the Y-town forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...34#post7202234 

(post 184)


Good news - they plan to go up with their full licensed power of 700 kW and DD 5.1!


----------



## paule123

The Cavs game on ABC is not looking too good. The center court cam looks pretty crappy. Anybody else noticing this?


The FSN Ohio HD game Friday night looked much better than this.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, guys this is way off topic but since so many of us are going to be affected by this I'm kind of wondering. What is going to happen with the email address? Assuming it won't be [email protected] . What if your handle's already being used somewhere in road runner land?
> 
> 
> Just something else to stress out on.



There's no reason why it couldn't... For example, Earthlink acquired quite a few ISP's domains over the years (I still keep a sprintmail.com address, for example) which it allows people to keep, although they usually won't allow additional accounts on those domains, just earthlink.net. Since TWC is NOT an ISP (Road Runner is only affiliated with, not owned by TWC) and both Road Runner and Earthlink, as well as a few others provide ISP services on TWC, it might be more complicated... I guess we'll have to see.


----------



## JJkizak

Just looked at my guru buddies Dish setup in Sheffield Lake running 4 tvs and the picture and operation was flawless. The local SD channels were actually sharper than on my OTA Sony HDTV. In my opinion it blows away Adelphia digital big time. My cousin in Aurora has Adelphia and it is sadly lacking in sharpness on the SD channels. The satellite stuff was razor sharp on every channel and he went through all of them. If I didn't have a zillion trees I would have Satellite by now. He doesn't have any HD channels yet as he has no HDTV.


JJK


----------



## ZManCartFan

JJKizak -


Was that a Dish Network or a DirecTV setup? I figure by your post it's probably Dish Network, as DirecTV is really lacking in my opinion in the sharpness category.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, guys this is way off topic but since so many of us are going to be affected by this I'm kind of wondering. What is going to happen with the email address? Assuming it won't be [email protected] . What if your handle's already being used somewhere in road runner land?



As someone noted, Earthlink has swallowed up and kept old company E-Mail (I have a mindspring.com address or two, which are now only getting kept on E-Mail usage since I cancelled my Earthlink dialup backup account).


Adelphia won't exist after whatever date it is, but its pieces are getting swallowed by two different companies...so I have no idea if they'll let you keep the old address. One reason I don't use an ISP-based one


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got a reply and I replied to that reply. I thought some of you might be interested (thanks to Inundated for his Tube screen shot many pages back in this thread)



I'm surprised that graphic is still there...I cancelled the AOL account a while back (it was one of my "extra" ones I'm getting rid of)...


Of course, to fix it they'd probably adjust the bandwidth to 43.1, which could impact UPN HD. But since I don't watch either UPN or "The Tube", I don't personally care either way...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since TWC is NOT an ISP (Road Runner is only affiliated with, not owned by TWC) and both Road Runner and Earthlink, as well as a few others provide ISP services on TWC, it might be more complicated... I guess we'll have to see.



Road Runner IS owned and operated by TWC. The Adelphia.com domain will most likely be taken by Road Runner ASSUMING that this TWC/Adelphia buy-out happens across the country and is not localized to your region. If this buy-out doesn't happen across the country then I would be afraid the adelphia.com domain will be lost. Although the possibility exists that the adelphia.com domain COULD move to an independent ISP (Earthlink) assuming that the independent ISP is available on all cable systems that are taking over Adelphia.


BTW, is Adelphia going out of business or just losing this region?


Reference Road Runner Company Info


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, is Adelphia going out of business or just losing this region?



Adelphia has been in bankruptcy for some time now and Time Warner and Comcast are buying the company. After that they will no longer be in business. A blessing to all their customers.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D* was only about $10/mo cheaper in the long run AND you have to buy their HD DVR outright, no monthly lease plan. For me it's not worth it to save $10/mo and get inferior PQ, plus I'd have to add 4 or 5 D* receivers for each TV in the house.



Not that it's likely to change your equation, it may make it worse actually, but FYI D* is going to a lease system starting March 1st. It appears you'll still get the opportunity to have a large up front cost (~$300) for HD Tivo-like equipment, but w/o any of the "nasty" ownership rights. Not sure how this will work for D*, as most customers don't appear pleased at all by this development, but I guess Dish has been doing it for awhile. Monthly cost wise the rental basically takes the place of the mirrored receiver fee so it nets out the same.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to mention we don't have HD locals on D* just yet, which is something I gotta have (life is too short to screw around with an OTA antenna anymore) I also really wonder if D*'s new magical MPEG4 format is really going to be as good as HD on cable.



We live in interesting times & it should be fascinating to watch how well the MPEG4 rollout goes and what picture quality comparisons are like in 2 or 3 years. Fortunately I get pretty good OTA reception, so I can afford to wait it out for awhile and live with D* picture quality on the non-OTA channels...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm surprised that graphic is still there...I cancelled the AOL account a while back (it was one of my "extra" ones I'm getting rid of)...
> 
> 
> Of course, to fix it they'd probably adjust the bandwidth to 43.1, which could impact UPN HD. But since I don't watch either UPN or "The Tube", I don't personally care either way...



According to Ali from The Tube, WUAB-DT is not "squeezing" the bandwidth. I read in another thread that I can't locate to quote from that the poor PQ problem on the Tube is a problem in at least one other market (read my message to Ali).


Bottom line the pixillation is coming from The Tube's end and is not cuased by the local stations bandwidth.


EDIT: Come to think about it, I'm willing to bet The Tube's video library is on a less than adequate video server (perhaps running MPEG1







).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Target date for WKBN-DT: May 1. A post from their chief engineer on the Y-town forum:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...34#post7202234
> 
> (post 184)
> 
> 
> Good news - they plan to go up with their full licensed power of 700 kW and DD 5.1!



Good news! Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that it's likely to change your equation, it may make it worse actually, but FYI D* is going to a lease system starting March 1st. It appears you'll still get the opportunity to have a large up front cost (~$300) for HD Tivo-like equipment, but w/o any of the "nasty" ownership rights. Not sure how this will work for D*, as most customers don't appear pleased at all by this development, but I guess Dish has been doing it for awhile. Monthly cost wise the rental basically takes the place of the mirrored receiver fee so it nets out the same.



DaMavs-


Where are you getting this info from? Interesting. Will this be for new purchases only? And is it more of a license rather than a lease? I'm wondering how you can have both an up-front cost and a monthly lease like that unless it's a license to use rather than a rental cost. Granted I don't follow this stuff that closely, but this is the first I've heard of any changes being planned to D*s billing model.


----------



## JJkizak

ZmanCartFan:

Yes it is a Dish setup mounted on the corner of his house just under the overhang. He also had all the local channels, 3-5-8-19-25-43-55. What surprised me is the fact that his local channels were much sharper than my OTA SD stuff. That includes the fuzzy WEWS and 43.

There was nothing fuzzy on his system at all. My OTA stuff looked like a "blur" filter was applied to most of the SD stuff but then again it might be the LG-3510A tuner I have. I also had an MRD-200 tuner and a Samsung T165 and they were about the same.


JJK


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just looked at my guru buddies Dish setup in Sheffield Lake running 4 tvs and the picture and operation was flawless. The local SD channels were actually sharper than on my OTA Sony HDTV. In my opinion it blows away Adelphia digital big time. My cousin in Aurora has Adelphia and it is sadly lacking in sharpness on the SD channels. The satellite stuff was razor sharp on every channel and he went through all of them. If I didn't have a zillion trees I would have Satellite by now. He doesn't have any HD channels yet as he has no HDTV.
> 
> 
> JJK



I guess it's very subjective. I have both Adelphia & Dish Network and on my Sony 51" HDTV, I find Adelphia, while having more 'artifacts' on the screen, is far more crisp and colorful on their SD digital, local digitals, and all HD content. The HD content is close, but Adelphia's is definately more colorful. Dish can be a bit deceiving at first on the SD material, because they do have a 'smoother' looking picture for the non-HD's, but after years of seeing both, it's clear to me (no pun intended...ha!) that Dish is 'smoother' looking because it lacks the detail & color that cable has. So the benefit of the Dish signal seems to be less artifacts & grain but at the expense of color and sharpness. It just depends on what you prefer to see. The HD is better on cable and dealing with my OTA antenna for the local HD/Digitals via Dish is a pain to deal with. For me, at this point, cable wins. I only keep Dish around because I am grandfathered in with only the HD-Package at this point (you need full programming packages if not grandfathered) and it gives me the Voom channels (which basically suck), a few locals that Adelphia doesn't have and TNT-HD. If Adelphia added TNT-HD and UPN-HD, I'd get rid of the Dish probably. I guess it might be ok if Dish gets a bunch of new HD content, then I'd be 'in' for the $15 I pay them per month!










Again, it's subjective, but this is the conclusion I've come to & I've had both for 7 years and can compare side by side.


update - just saw your new post. I'm not sure how locals sent via Dish Network could be sharper and more clear than getting them OTA straight from the networks locally. For the Digitals, it doesn't seem possible unless the digital tuner you have is not doing what it should or it's outputs are not good. For the analog locals, if your antenna doesn't pull them in well, they can be much worse than Dish because with analog, it's not an all or nothing deal like digtal OTA.


----------



## jtscherne

All future DISH HD programming will be MPEG-4. Don't be surprised that at some point you'll lose what you have.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All future DISH HD programming will be MPEG-4. Don't be surprised that at some point you'll lose what you have.



I've heard there are some issues with MPEG-4 & it may not happen any time soon. I haven't read up on this in a few months so that may have changed. Also, they wouldn't just pull the plug on a $399 receiver I just purchased a little over a year ago (went from a Dish 6000 to Dish 811). At least I hope they wouldn't do that...without giving me a huge discount on the new receiver. As for the grandfathered deal, I don't know if they can just say you can't have the HD-Package anymore without full programming, but again, I hope not. Hard to say at this point. Either way, it's not a big deal as Adelphia is better for me as far as HD goes anyway with Dish being just a cheap bonus for a couple extras. I suppose I can always keep their receiver for local OTA that are missing from Adelphia (ie UPN) either way.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've heard there are some issues with MPEG-4 & it may not happen any time soon. I haven't read up on this in a few months so that may have changed. Also, they wouldn't just pull the plug on a $399 receiver I just purchased a little over a year ago (went from a Dish 6000 to Dish 811). At least I hope they wouldn't do that...without giving me a huge discount on the new receiver. As for the grandfathered deal, I don't know if they can just say you can't have the HD-Package anymore without full programming, but again, I hope not. Hard to say at this point. Either way, it's not a big deal as Adelphia is better for me as far as HD goes anyway with Dish being just a cheap bonus for a couple extras. I suppose I can always keep their receiver for local OTA that are missing from Adelphia (ie UPN) either way.



New locals are uplinked to the sat. in true mpeg4, also in about a year all HD will be moved to mpeg4, there is a 49$ upgrade lease fee, pay that then you can have the joy of leasing a dish network reciever! but the vip211 (the new Hd reciever) has a very good OTA tuner!


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What surprised me is the fact that his local channels were much sharper than my OTA SD stuff.
> 
> 
> JJK



You mentioned that your friend doesn't have an HD setup. I wonder if what you're seeing is just that larger and more modern displays tend to make satellite picture look worse instead of better. If you were watching on, say, a 27" non-HD set, I guess I could see where you're coming from. But unless Dish is just that much superior to DirecTV, I find it hard to imagine that the picture on the locals really is that much sharper than OTA or cable except as compared to an analog OTA signal.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> New locals are uplinked to the sat. in true mpeg4, also in about a year all HD will be moved to mpeg4, there is a 49$ upgrade lease fee, pay that then you can have the joy of leasing a dish network reciever! but the vip211 (the new Hd reciever) has a very good OTA tuner!



It'll be interesting to see what they do when they turn off the old HD stream. So MPEG4 is for all the new HD content plus locals via Dish. I wouldn't need those anyway (get them via OTA plus Adelphia) so I'd only be concerned with the other HD channels. I wonder if they'll leave the old stream on or just turn it off when everything is converted. I hope they'll sell me a new receiver at a discount considering the old one is going to be only a few years old. Oh well, I'm not all that concerned anyway, although the added content might be good; we'll have to see. At the very least, I'll still get OTA for free.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bottom line the pixillation is coming from The Tube's end and is not cuased by the local stations bandwidth.



Interesting. I haven't taken a look at The Tube for some time, but I just assumed it was bandwidth-starved.


Since WUAB is owned by Raycom, maybe it's more likely "good equipment starved".


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You mentioned that your friend doesn't have an HD setup. I wonder if what you're seeing is just that larger and more modern displays tend to make satellite picture look worse instead of better. If you were watching on, say, a 27" non-HD set, I guess I could see where you're coming from. But unless Dish is just that much superior to DirecTV, I find it hard to imagine that the picture on the locals really is that much sharper than OTA or cable except as compared to an analog OTA signal.



Yeah I totally agree. Here's a question though. Does Dish Network even have the local HD/DTV channels yet? I didn't think so. What are we comparing the SD locals Dish Network provides to? Local OTA analog or digital channels? If it's analog, it's it doesn't makes sense, because if you have a good antenna that's properly pointed, there is no way that Dish Network's SD locals should be better than OTA Analog via antenna when compared on the same TV. If you are comparing an HDTV to a direct view SDTV, that is not a good comparison at all. HDTV's do make the SD locals look considerably worse than on a standard direct view SDTV so the two sources can't be compared as the TV is what is causing the discrepancy. The only other way that Dish Sd locals would look better is if the local nets were giving Dish Network a better feed than what they are sending out OTA and that just can't be so. If we are comparing analog SD's from Dish to local OTA Digital channels, again, that is not a good comparison as it's apples to oranges. Two totally different things.


JJK, please let us know what the case is and hopefully we can get things straight so you can make a clear choice while comparing apples to apples.


----------



## JJkizak

Dweezils:

I wasn't aware that my HDTV performed worse on SD channels (Sony 34") than a regular tv but I am now if indeed that is the case. His tv was about a 25" standard set. If that's true I wonder why this is technically happening? I assumed all of the channels on the Dish system were digital but what the heck weather they were or not they were sharper than my Sony HDTV SD channels and by a substantial margin. My HD is spectacular but why should the SD suffer? Channel 5.1 and 43.1 and 43.2 have pretty ugly SD and sometimes it's "barf" quality. The SD on 3.1, 8.1, 19.1, 61.1 is ok but not as good as the Dish stuff. If I switch back to the analog tuner the channels seem to pick up in sharpness. Maybe it's time for another tuner.


JJK


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DaMavs-
> 
> Where are you getting this info from? Interesting. Will this be for new purchases only? And is it more of a license rather than a lease? I'm wondering how you can have both an up-front cost and a monthly lease like that unless it's a license to use rather than a rental cost. Granted I don't follow this stuff that closely, but this is the first I've heard of any changes being planned to D*s billing model.




FYI, I just found this out myself yesterday from the solidsignal.com mailing list. I was pretty shocked... they say as of Feb 28 (tomorrow!) you won't be able to outright buy and own your D* receivers, they will be part of this lease deal. Even if you do buy one today/tomorrow, if you don't activate it by March 30, it will revert to the new lease plan. Pretty screwy if you ask me, but I understand D* needs to give people a low cost lease option if they want to compete with cable in the near future.


Here's an excerpt from the email I received:
_SPECIAL NEWS ABOUT DIRECTV'S NEW EQUIPMENT LEASE PROGRAM


There are some new changes headed your way if you are currently

a DIRECTV subscriber. RIGHT NOW may be your last opportunity to

purchase DIRECTV satellite equipment (receivers) prior to the

adoption of DIRECTV's new lease program. Some notes about the

upcoming changes:


(1) Receivers purchased after 02-28-2006 will be classified under

DIRECTV's new lease program. Meaning, all activated units purchased

after 02-28-2006 will tagged in way that requires you, as a subscriber,

to return the used equipment to DIRECTV should you decide to cancel

your DIRECTV subscription.


(2) Customers who purchase DIRECTV receivers before 03-01-2006

have up until the end of March 2006 (03-30-2006) to activate the

unit under the current purchased receiver option.


The important information here is that if you would like to own

a DIRECTV receiver without return lease agreement, now is the time

to purchase that receiver.



DIRECTV RECEIVER MODELS


*Please note that with any new activation DIRECTV requires a 24

month commitment. This requirement is true with leased and

non-leased equipment.
_


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dweezils:
> 
> I wasn't aware that my HDTV performed worse on SD channels (Sony 34") than a regular tv but I am now if indeed that is the case. His tv was about a 25" standard set. If that's true I wonder why this is technically happening? I assumed all of the channels on the Dish system were digital but what the heck weather they were or not they were sharper than my Sony HDTV SD channels and by a substantial margin. My HD is spectacular but why should the SD suffer? Channel 5.1 and 43.1 and 43.2 have pretty ugly SD and sometimes it's "barf" quality. The SD on 3.1, 8.1, 19.1, 61.1 is ok but not as good as the Dish stuff. If I switch back to the analog tuner the channels seem to pick up in sharpness. Maybe it's time for another tuner.
> 
> 
> JJK



By the way, I live in Twinsburg as well. I could stop by & help ya.










Anyway, now I see what the issue is. First off, you are comparing SD content coming in as 480i (at the very best) via Dish Network vs. Digtal / HD locals coming in as 1080i or 720p via OTA digital tuner. Those are two very different things. To compare apples to apples, you'd need to compare the analog OTA vs. Dish Network locals. And then, you have to compare on the same TV. All HDTV's make non-HD content look considerably worse than on standard SDTV's. In fact, your 34" direct view Sony is probably better than most in regards to SD but still not great by any stretch. There are many factors working here. The first is comparing a 25" TV to a 34" TV. The smaller the TV, the less effect poor quality content has. Even in the SDTV world, a 19" TV is always gonna look a bit sharper than a 32" TV (all things being equal except for size). For an example outside the TV world, have you ever taken a digital picture that looks just killer on your 1.5" or 2" LCD on your camera but when you look at it full size on your PC or printed out, it's all blurry and out of focus? Well, it's the same thing at work there. Because of the size difference and resolution difference, there isn't enough 'data' displayed to clearly see how bad the image really is. Same with the TV's. Small TV's hide the poor quality of the content. As you get bigger in size, it reveals more of the 'garbage' because the garbage is getting big enough to actually see. The term 'garbage in; garbage out' applies here and an HDTV only magnifies that.


Now the next thing is, that you are comparing two very different sources. The OTA you are getting via 5.1 8.1 3.1, 19.1, etc...are digital stations. When digital stations are showing analog SD content, it can look washed out and soft as they upconvert SD to 720p or 1080i before they send it. Upconverting SD content sometimes doesn't look too good as they are only taking probably 200 analog lines at best and then they have to create 720 or 1080 lines out of that! Not all SD upconverted content will look as bad, but it can. The issue is, this type of content can't even be displayed on your buddy's TV, so you can't compare how it would look there. If you could, you'd find it pretty much would look the same; soft and washed out at times. If you could also show analog locals on your TV, you'd find it would look closer to your buddy's TV, but still not as good due to yours being an HDTV.


Anyway, your issue is not the tuner, it's that you are comparing two totally different signal types on two very very different TV's. Nothing you have seen on your buddy's TV supports that Dish Network looks better than OTA or Adelphia. I have both & I can tell you first hand, it's not the case. Let me know and I can help you out personally if you like since we live in the same city or I can chat with you on the phone.


-Todd


----------



## ZManCartFan

Hey JJK-


I assume your Sony is a direct-view tube model and not a projection or LCD/plasma one. If that's the case, one thing you may want to do to help the picture on your Sony is to turn OFF any kind of velocity modulation (usually marked VM in the menus). Also, try turning your sharpening down by a substantial margin. Depending on the age of your set, this may be accomplished by choosing the "pro" mode rather than "Vivid" or "Standard."


I know this may sound counterintuitive, but it actually helps with the "bad" picture that HD sets tend to put out when displaying satellite pictures (or some other digital sources). The problem is that the satellite stuff is so over compressed that you end up getting a lot of blockiness.


Have you ever seen a picture that someone emails you that has obviously been shrunk down to fit within the email? Often you see a lot of "noise" around the edges of your subject. (You can see examples here. ) That's very similar to what the satellite picture does when overcompressing the signal.


The VM and sharpness on your set actually amplifies these effects. VM works by having the scanning gun of your set "slow down" when it gets to the sharp edges that it finds like having a big jump in contrast from one pixel to the next (like black to white). This produces a more pronounced edge to your eye. The designers of the set seem to think that this appeals to people, and in fact in the electronics store, it may give more "wow" factor to people walking by. But when you get it home, what you're actually seeing is a picture that is being displayed in a way that the original picture was never meant to be seen. And when you toss in the less-than-perfect picture that satellite delivers, it can make things seem horrible.


I think you had said originally that you thought that your friend's set produced a sharper picture through Dish than your HD set did using an OTA connection displaying SD material. Again, if you're talking about a digital signal (3.1, 5.1, 8.1, etc.) on your set, what you're seeing is as good as it's going to get without modifying your display settings. If you're talking about an analog signal (3, 5, 8, etc.), your scenario would make sense. A picture can look softer just by the "snow" that you get with an analog signal.


Anyway, if you've never done it, you can dramitically improve your display settings by using one of the commercially-available calibration DVDs. I have an older Sony 36" HD set, and I couldn't believe the difference that using Avia's disk made. It's also where I learned most of the stuff about sharpness and VM being a bad thing. It might be worth it for you to try it out.


----------



## Dweezilz

All of what you said is good advice, but I'm guessing 99% of what he is seeing is the difference between viewing SD material on a small SD TV vs. on a 34" widescreen HDTV. Plus, add in that he's comparing digital channels vs. analog channels & it's a totally different situation on each of the TV's he's comparing.


One thing to note is that often times, the analog version of a local channel can look better on the SD analog channel than on the digital channel showing the SD material. So that would produce the opposite results of what you are saying would make sense. And I can say without a doubt, SD content viewed via analog channels on a 25" TV is going to look sharper than even digital SD content viewed via digital channels on an HDTV. Of course there are exceptions such as WKYC's digital SD news broadcast. Looks darn nice on an HDTV even though it's SD. That's an exception however & not the norm. For instance, I can watch SD content on a channel like UPN on my 27" Sony & it's going to look far better than viewing the same SD content via UPN-HD on my 51" Sony HDTV or my Sanyo Z4. It won't even be close. When some of the Browns games were not in HD, I found that I prefered the picture using Adelphia's SD locals than using the 704 digital channel showing the game in SD. Further more, the game looked far better than either of those on my 27" SDTV 10 year old Sony. That's a pretty standard scenario.


I'm fairly certain this is the exact scenario that is tripping JJ up. I'm quite sure if JJ got Dish Network & compared their analog channels to Adelphia's SD locals, he would find that they look the same on his TV if not a bit better with Adelphia (and even better via analog OTA with a proper antenna, although at this point, with the other options for locals, there's little need to mess with that).


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DaMavs-
> 
> 
> Where are you getting this info from? Interesting. Will this be for new purchases only? And is it more of a license rather than a lease? I'm wondering how you can have both an up-front cost and a monthly lease like that unless it's a license to use rather than a rental cost. Granted I don't follow this stuff that closely, but this is the first I've heard of any changes being planned to D*s billing model.



Yes - just new purchases, well more likely leases. If you currently own equipment, you are unaffected. But starting in March you won't just be able to buy new equipment apparently. Well technically it appears you'll still be able to buy from dealers if you want, but they will no longer receive commisions from D* so the cost will likely be far higher. And that presumes it will be cost effective for dealers to continue to offer D* boxes w/o the commisions.


I don't really understand how they expect to get away with the upfront costs w/o ownership, but apparently Dish does now, so they want to do it too. My guess is there will be wiggle room for existing/new customers to threaten going to cable w/$0 up-front & no contract to get big reductions, but that's a guess. In the past I've leveraged some decent programming compensations for purchasing HD Tivos.


I've mostly read about it on AVS forums in various D* threads. I couldn't locate a single thread here about it, but here's one for reference at DBS Talk that covers most of the details and is fairly long.


Personally I'm happy currently w/D* and the HD-Tivo since I have fairly reliable OTA (at least when Channel 5 isn't messing up their signal). Once I'm forced away from the HD-Tivo w/MPEG4 coming though, I have no idea what I'll do - it will depend on what D* offers to keep me and if Adelphia is no more so I can avoid the dregs of cable. If by the time I have to upgrade, D* doesn't offer a good deal and Comcast has taken over Adelphia and is offering a Tivo box, that may be tempting...But too many variables there as of today, to know what the right answer is.


----------



## JJkizak

Dweezils:

When I first got the Sony 34" CRT something didn't look right when I showed a DVD and the VM thing was causing that problem so I shut it off and I think the sharpness is set to around 5/8 to 3/4 up but not sure. The mode has always been in standard. WJW seems to be the sharpest in SD and also the stretched SD in 3.1 is excellent. (if you like to look at short fat people) Tomorrow I will check out the SD on another setup I have upstairs in the computer room with the MY-HD-120 card and a small LCD Sony 23" HDTV. I was thinking of getting the calibration disc but I looked at the 1080P Mitsubishi DLP's and they were outsanding. The 1080P's are the first sets that I would even consider among all that are available now. I assume they were showing 1080P stuff because I couldn't believe how good it was.


JJK


----------



## Inundated

The direct upconverting of analog onto a station's digital channel by itself can magnify problems. As noted above here, WEWS-DT and WOIO-DT are the two worst examples of it. Their analog upconversion looks worse even on sets where it should not.


I believe part of the problem is that they do not have digital equipment at the source. WJW obviously does, and so does WKYC (even if it's SD at this time). Gannett is busy converting a lot of its stations to HD local news, and WKYC probably won't be far behind. They have a mostly digital plant anyway, due to their recent build-out about 3 years ago or so.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It'll be interesting to see what they do when they turn off the old HD stream. So MPEG4 is for all the new HD content plus locals via Dish. I wouldn't need those anyway (get them via OTA plus Adelphia) so I'd only be concerned with the other HD channels. I wonder if they'll leave the old stream on or just turn it off when everything is converted. I hope they'll sell me a new receiver at a discount considering the old one is going to be only a few years old. Oh well, I'm not all that concerned anyway, although the added content might be good; we'll have to see. At the very least, I'll still get OTA for free.



At this point, Dish has started local HD channels for only 4 markets (I think!), but Cleveland is expected at some point this year. However, they have also started offering ESPN2HD and Universal HD (the current MPEG-2 version was only for the Olympics). Supposedly Starz HD is coming soon.


Frankly my concern with them right now is the Indians!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

for those with questions on the Indians, listen to Moohead radio tomorrow. he's gonn have on the pres of fastball sports. 5pm listen at his site.

http://www.mooheadradio.com/ 


moohead is a cleveland fan, has a 1 hour radio show online, talks about cleveland sports and stuff. hopefully it can answer some of your questions.




note: i only know of moohead from Indians forums. I've never spoken with him personally before and this is not meant as an endorsement for his show. It sounds like he will have some good info on tomorrow, that I want to pass along.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dweezils:
> 
> When I first got the Sony 34" CRT something didn't look right when I showed a DVD and the VM thing was causing that problem so I shut it off and I think the sharpness is set to around 5/8 to 3/4 up but not sure. The mode has always been in standard. WJW seems to be the sharpest in SD and also the stretched SD in 3.1 is excellent. (if you like to look at short fat people) Tomorrow I will check out the SD on another setup I have upstairs in the computer room with the MY-HD-120 card and a small LCD Sony 23" HDTV. I was thinking of getting the calibration disc but I looked at the 1080P Mitsubishi DLP's and they were outsanding. The 1080P's are the first sets that I would even consider among all that are available now. I assume they were showing 1080P stuff because I couldn't believe how good it was.
> 
> 
> JJK



Hard to say if it was 1080p or not. I have seen the new Sony 1080p running a demo unit of the soon to be Sony 1080p player. It looked shockingly good. In fact I've never seen anything look as good as that did. Go to Circuit City to see it. By the way, even those 1080p units need a calibration DVD so it's a good investment either way. Get Avia or DVE and you'll be happy you did for both your 34" and the LCD or any future TV's you get. Even projectors (I used Avia for my Sanyo Z4)


My in-laws have the same TV you have...or at least one of the 34" Sony's (they have the cheaper one that was $1000). It looks nice on HD although not like a rear projection, LCD or the other new technologies. Anyway, I know you are looking for SD that's as clean as what you saw on the 25" TV your buddy has, but again, it's simply not going to happen with an HDTV of any notable size. The best you can do is watch the OTA digital locals when they look good & then switch to the analog locals when they don't. On the other hand, just think how great HD & DVD's look on your TV compared to SD on your buddy's set. It's a nice trade off if you ask me!







I had a prime example tonight of the effect of an HDTV on a SD signal. I am currently watching 24 on my projector in HD. It look unreal great. I also had the Cavs game in PIP. It too looked good in the PIP even though it was SD. When I swapped and viewed the Cavs game in the full picture, at 106", I can't tell you how friggin' bad it looked. Horrid. But on my 19" Panasonic, it looked very good and in the PIP it looked good (I'm guessing the PIP was about 27" or so on the screen). Same source, just two different displays with two totally different results. I wouldn't trade my Z4 for another Panasonic 19" however. HA!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Get Avia or DVE and you'll be happy you did for both your 34" and the LCD or any future TV's you get. Even projectors (I used Avia for my Sanyo Z4)



I got the Avia and to be honest I find the best calibration tool is the one on INHD on Saturday mornings. They show it I think every 2 or 3 weeks. HDNet also has a decent one.


And the cost is 0.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hard to say if it was 1080p or not.



FYI - it couldn't have been a 1080P input as neither the Sony SXRD 1080P sets nor the Mits 1080P DLPs actually allow a true 1080P input. They both take 480i/480p/720p/1080i and then upscale to 1080P to display. So the native resolution of the display is 1080P, but it can't actually take a true 1080P input. I think the HP DLP (which I haven't seen on display anywhere in greater Cleveland) is still the only TV that will allow a true 1080P input, although some plasmas are coming and may be out shortly.


There aren't many 1080P sources now anyway - a home theater PC is about it for now. I'd guess it was just a 1080i input that was being deinterlaced that looked so good on the Mits/Sony 1080Ps. They are both very nice sets...


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI - it couldn't have been a 1080P input as neither the Sony SXRD 1080P sets nor the Mits 1080P DLPs actually allow a true 1080P input. They both take 480i/480p/720p/1080i and then upscale to 1080P to display. So the native resolution of the display is 1080P, but it can't actually take a true 1080P input. I think the HP DLP (which I haven't seen on display anywhere in greater Cleveland) is still the only TV that will allow a true 1080P input, although some plasmas are coming and may be out shortly.
> 
> 
> There aren't many 1080P sources now anyway - a home theater PC is about it for now. I'd guess it was just a 1080i input that was being deinterlaced that looked so good on the Mits/Sony 1080Ps. They are both very nice sets...



Brillian also makes a 65" 1080P set that has 1080P inputs. It's primary problems are that it costs around $8k and doesn't deinterlace properly (i.e., drops down to 540 lines of resolution before it scales a 1080i input).


A 1080i/60 signal fed into a 1080P set that deinterlaces properly (like SXRD's that retain 1080 lines of resolution) should be basically the same as a 1080P/24 (how data will be stored on the Blu Ray and HD DVD's) upgraded to 1080P/60 by the DVD player or the TV that accepts 1080P/24. Both 1080P/24 and 1080i have the same amount of data and will have the exact same resolution if the 1080i signal is properly deinterlaced.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI - it couldn't have been a 1080P input as neither the Sony SXRD 1080P sets nor the Mits 1080P DLPs actually allow a true 1080P input. They both take 480i/480p/720p/1080i and then upscale to 1080P to display. So the native resolution of the display is 1080P, but it can't actually take a true 1080P input. I think the HP DLP (which I haven't seen on display anywhere in greater Cleveland) is still the only TV that will allow a true 1080P input, although some plasmas are coming and may be out shortly.
> 
> 
> There aren't many 1080P sources now anyway - a home theater PC is about it for now. I'd guess it was just a 1080i input that was being deinterlaced that looked so good on the Mits/Sony 1080Ps. They are both very nice sets...



I was simply going by what the guy at the store was telling me. He seemed to know what he was saying...but I guess not. I just called Circuit City to clairify their mistake and indeed, the kid who seemed to know what he was saying was wrong. I should have known better, however who knows what's really the case, although it's clear the SRXD doesn't accept 1080p. Anyway, the Sony player was indeed a demo of their HD-DVD player that will come out soon, but it was playing 1080i it seems, not 1080p like the kid told me. Not sure what the player was actually doing however. Ironically, I specifically asked him if it was upconverting 1080i to 1080p and he specifically told me I was wrong and that it was doing true 1080p from the player. I asked him again if he was 100% sure because I hadn't heard of such a player as this 1080p Sony. He said he was sure. ha!!!


At any rate, even though it was playing from a 1080i HD-DVD player, I can tell you it was spectacular! It dusted every single other TV in that store that were playing content from INHD. I asked him to switch from the HD-DVD to INHD and it looked very good still and better than the other TV's yet it was night & day compared to how it looked with that HD-DVD. He told me it was not upconverting the 1080i INHD feed so I'm wondering now if maybe that part was indeed true? If it was upconverting to 1080p, why would the INHD not look even close to as good as the HD-DVD? I've been doing HD for 8 years now and I can tell you, I've not seen anything that looked that gorgeous, yet when it was displaying INHD, it looked like regular HDTV (still very very nice to be clear).


Any ideas what was going on? It would explain it if the Sony only upconverted via the one input that the HD-DVD was hooked into so the INHD was not upconverted. Maybe it would have looked as good too.


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At any rate, even though it was playing from a 1080i HD-DVD player, I can tell you it was spectacular!



By HD-DVD, I'm guessing you mean an upconverting DVD player. Sony is a proponet of Blu-ray and will probably never sell an HD-DVD player. Toshiba is the largest proponet of HD-DVD and their units won't be out until the end of March. (there will be a demo at HHGregg on the 28th, I believe) Blu-ray is scheduled for April/May.


Again, since the DVD player was probably just one of their upconverting models, I'm going to guess it was the N70H. This unit outputs an upcoverted 1080i signal. The TV was then probably upconverting that signal to 1080p. Sony's digital scaling has historically been very very good so this is probably what you witnessed.


What material was being shown on the DVD vs. INHD? (Also, which Circuit City was this?)


----------



## hookbill

Ha. CC/Best Buy sales: If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle em with b.s.


I went and bought some AW 871 Wireless Speakers at BB the other day. Their lack of knowledge of what they were selling was astounding! They tried to sell me a battery recharger, when the darn thing recharges it's batteries. They couldn't tell me how many batteries per speaker, and you'd of thought I was asking the world for them to open a sample so we could see.


I dealt with a store manager at CC 2 weeks ago when I was investigating the Vonage/DTV calling issue. He would hand me this and that and assure me it would work but everytime I posed a question and a reason why it probably wouldn't work he could not answer.


And then when you get them so tied up they don't know how to get out of their lie it's, "take it home and try it. If it doesn't work bring it back."


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By HD-DVD, I'm guessing you mean an upconverting DVD player. Sony is a proponet of Blu-ray and will probably never sell an HD-DVD player. Toshiba is the largest proponet of HD-DVD and their units won't be out until the end of March. (there will be a demo at HHGregg on the 28th, I believe) Blu-ray is scheduled for April/May.
> 
> 
> Again, since the DVD player was probably just one of their upconverting models, I'm going to guess it was the N70H. This unit outputs an upcoverted 1080i signal. The TV was then probably upconverting that signal to 1080p. Sony's digital scaling has historically been very very good so this is probably what you witnessed.
> 
> 
> What material was being shown on the DVD vs. INHD? (Also, which Circuit City was this?)




OK...it was not an upconverting player. I am very familiar with all that type of stuff....then it must have been Blu-ray or some other Sony HD player. I'm quite familiar with the whole HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war and have read many articles about it. I just said HD-DVD by accident as I couldn't recall who was doing what as I was typing. I am very into the entire home theater scene & I can promise you it was not an upconverting player. Up converting players do not play HD content, they play 480p DVD's upconverted to 720p or 1080i. I run my Z4 projector in my dedicated home theater off my HTPC with my DVB318 upconverting player as the backup so I'm very familiar with what that looks like. It had to be Blu-Ray. Not sure how to spell it out more clearly aside from the fact that it was SPECTACULAR! (all caps cause it was just that good, not 'cause I'm yellin at ya!







).


Again, sorry if I come off strong, but it was just a typo by saying HD-DVD. It was playing INHD off of cable in the store by Auroa and it was playing a demo of a beach, flowers & a motorcycle off of a Sony Player of some sort. Not sure if it was coming off a hard drive on it or a Blu-Ray disc.


UPDATE: I called Circuit City back & it was a Sony HD-Recorder that isn't for sale yet that was pre-loaded by Sony with High Definition Demo's. He said that the demo can be downloaded somewhere on the internet but wasn't sure where. So, there's the answer.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ha. CC/Best Buy sales: If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle em with b.s.
> 
> 
> I went and bought some AW 871 Wireless Speakers at BB the other day. Their lack of knowledge of what they were selling was astounding! They tried to sell me a battery recharger, when the darn thing recharges it's batteries. They couldn't tell me how many batteries per speaker, and you'd of thought I was asking the world for them to open a sample so we could see.
> 
> 
> I dealt with a store manager at CC 2 weeks ago when I was investigating the Vonage/DTV calling issue. He would hand me this and that and assure me it would work but everytime I posed a question and a reason why it probably wouldn't work he could not answer.
> 
> 
> And then when you get them so tied up they don't know how to get out of their lie it's, "take it home and try it. If it doesn't work bring it back."



Yeah I know. It's unreal how clueless they are. I am usually the jerk in the store correcting them as they tell other customers mis-information. ha!! Not sure why I believe this kid at Circuit City. I guess I just wasn't sure & he seemed to know about this particular TV. I even called him on it & he was so darn insistent he was right. When he was telling me how the Hitachi Projector they sell was so much better than the Sanyo Z4, I shoulda realized he was wrong about the TV as well. Typical I guess. Heck, I had a Toshiba repair guy at my neighbors house tell me I was just the neighbor next door who reads stereo review & he didn't have to listen to me. HA!! Their TV wasn't switching resolutions for HD yet the guy kept claiming the TV was fine and it was HD we were seeing & how nice it looked. It looked horrible...it was HDnet coming in as 480i. haha. He was obviously wrong. He even had his little resolution device hooked up & when switching from 1080i to 480i, the TV did nothing yet still showed the test pattern which he claimed was normal. He was an idiot obviously.







They called a different tech who fixed the problem. I suppose you can't make generalizations, yet for many of them, if they knew more, they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I called Circuit City back & it was a Sony HD-Recorder that isn't for sale yet that was pre-loaded by Sony with High Definition Demo's. He said that the demo can be downloaded somewhere on the internet but wasn't sure where. So, there's the answer.



Its Sony's HD-DVR that was available but seems to have been pulled from Sony's site. You can buy it today if you look hard enough.
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_DHG_HDD...-31155637.html 



Sony's Blu-Ray player:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE..._bluraydiscsub


----------



## Dweezilz

Thanks Terry...I found it. Seems CC is wrong again, but they were closer this time. They needed to say "not for sale" instead of "not for sale...yet". They were wrong by a "yet".










Next up...let's see who can find these HD demo's with the motorcyle, beach, & flowers. I'd love to see how that thing looks on my Z4!


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I should have known better, however who knows what's really the case, although it's clear the SRXD doesn't accept 1080p.



I can easily understand the confusion. Heck it's non-intuitive that a 1080P TV won't actually take a 1080P input in the first place.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any ideas what was going on? It would explain it if the Sony only upconverted via the one input that the HD-DVD was hooked into so the INHD was not upconverted. Maybe it would have looked as good too.



Since the Sony SXRD is a fixed pixel display it upconverts everything to 1080P for display - it has no choice. So both InHD & the HD-DVR would have been displayed at 1080P. I'd guess the DVR content input was optimized to look good on the display & also recorded optimally, while the InHD signal would be subject to the vagaries of the cable feed & how many splits CC had prior to the display.


Think of it as DVD vs. SD content - for any well recorded DVD, it always looks a ton better than the same content broadcast typically. Both are 480i sources (at least data-wise), but I think the only 480i broadcast content I've seen that looked as good as DVD was some big dish content with optimal signal & no interference. I'd presume this is the same deal...


----------



## hookbill

This is a reply I got from Adelphia regarding the Indians:

*Dear Philip,

The latest release of information from the home office:


Adelphia is working with the Indians toward carriage of their games this season for our customers. We don't currently anticipate any obstacles in reaching an agreement with the Indians. We will inform customers when we have additional information for them. Thanks for expressing your interest.*



CLEVELAND -- Fastball Sports Productions President Jim Liberatore today released additional programming details for the Indians television network, which will be known as SportsTime Ohio. He also announced that the long-time game day broadcast team of Mike Hegan, Rick Manning and John Sanders will return and will be joined by WKYC-TV Sports Director Jim Donovan, who will be the host for expanded programming to give fans even more insight into Indians' games and players.


"We are finalizing the details on what promises to be one of the best baseball programming concepts that Indians fans have ever seen," Liberatore said. "Viewers will benefit from the features we are adding, such as High Definition to all of the Indians' home game telecasts [as well as to all of the over-the-air broadcasts that will be seen on WKYC-TV], more programming throughout the season and additional cameras to give the viewer even more to see. This will be a great package that lays a strong foundation for the expansion of SportsTime Ohio in the months and years ahead."


Highlights of the planned Indians programming include: Most games ever -- 130 regular season games, with an additional 20 games to be seen on over-the-air broadcasts by WKYC-TV; also eight (8) Spring Training games will be aired.


High Definition broadcasts with an expanded number of cameras: Fans will see baseball like never before with the addition of high definition production and an increase of two cameras to capture on- and off-field activity. From the first broadcast, crisper action from 10 angles (it was previously eight) and surround sound will help bring the baseball experience into the living rooms of fans.


Weekly program: A 30-minute program hosted by Jim Donovan will look at what's happening in Major League Baseball each week. Don't expect your normal recap show -- the discussion could get a bit irreverent. During the Indians regular season, fans can catch the show's live broadcast on WKYC-TV at 7 p.m. on Monday's with frequent repeats on SportsTime Ohio. During the offseason, Donovan will look at what's happening with players and the business of baseball during a weekly broadcast on SportsTime Ohio.


Liberatore said that Fastball Sports Productions plans to build SportsTime Ohio into a fulltime network that will feature original local programming centering on the interests of Ohio sports fans. Liberatore explained, "We believe there will be strong interest in programming that covers local teams and issues and that understands and speaks to the passions of Ohio sports fans. This can include high school, college and professional games featuring area teams, and other programming -- such as the best historical sports events -- that will be of interest to fans."


Liberatore also confirmed that negotiations are continuing with area cable systems and satellite distributors to locate the programming on those systems. "We believe that our proposals to these systems are fair and reflect the tremendous value of Indians programming, as confirmed in several different viewership surveys," Liberatore said. "We are working hard to ensure that the Indians games and the related programming are available to the widest possible audience, and we encourage fans to contact their cable company or satellite service to let them know they want to see the Indians programming," he concluded.


About Fastball Sports Productions


The Cleveland Indians Baseball Company Limited Partnership established Fastball Sports Productions in December 2005 as an innovative media enterprise to serve a variety of sports programming purposes. Its initial venture is to serve as a regional distribution network for Cleveland Indians baseball games and related productions. Plans are being developed to produce original sports programming that will be of particular interest to Northern Ohio sports fans.


----------



## hdtv4prs

I live in Massillon, about 40 miles from the Parma Farm using a VHF/UHF RS 160" on a 30' tower/ rotor. For the longest time I have tried to pick up WJW-DT at channel 8.1 and have not picked it up. I get the analog WJW at channel 8. All the other HD stations come in fine: 3.1, 5.1 19.1 43.1, 50.1 .2 .3 .4 .

Surfing , I found WJW-DT at 31.3 on the TV. Does anyone know why its found on the F.C.C. assigned frequency and not on its listed channel like the other stations ?

Are there any other stations that send out their signal on the assigned and not the listed channels ? I am really confused !


----------



## Michael P 2341

This is a PSIP data error. These errors come and go. In the past the same thing has happened on WOIO (10.1 insted of 19.1). Keep scanning and eventually 8.1 will lock in.


BTW: You should be able to get 47.1 WOAC. The call letters are not yet displayed in the PSIP data but they are on the air, transmitting from just outside Kent.


----------



## calalli

Hi, I am a long time subscriber, but this may be my first post. I am a long time D* subscriber, with 4 D*Tivo boxes, including an HR10-250 connected through HDMI to a Sammy DLP. I am considering a change to TWC in Green due to the price increase at D* and concerns about the availability of the Indians this season.


My questions are: 1) I would want 4 dvrs, 2 HD and 2 standard, what are the likely boxes and what software are they running? I have read much of several threads about SARA and PASSPORT, but did not see what was available here.


2) Is the external drive available here? I would need more space than that available on the SA box I think.


3) Has anyone made this change? I care about reliability and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) foremost, and am not sure this would be a smart move. MY wife is an Indians fan, but claims not to see the difference with HD. I expect that D* will get the new Indians feed, but not in HD. I would like both.


4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?


Any feedback on this would be appreciated.


cal


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *calalli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?
> 
> 
> Any feedback on this would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> cal



Since I don't live in TW land yet I can't answer most of your questions. Where I'm at the SATA is active, but I don't know what software TW is running. I'm with Adelphia. Generally is you have SARA 1.87.XX.X your SATA is active. I seem to remember that Pasport software does not activate the SATA.


However I can tell you that if all SA boxes currently out there will run off the same remote code. So your Harmony can't be fixed to two different codes to run two boxes.


----------



## paule123

Just listened to the Joe Liberatore interview on WTAM 1100 with Kevin Keane. From what I gleaned, TWC customers are good to go on the preseason games starting this Thursday. (don't know what that means for Adelphia though, that was not talked about) He said they had deals done "with a couple other" systems. Kevin asked if his system, Cox, would be ready by opening day and Joe said "maybe".


I was impressed with Liberatore's credentials and experience, so he's not some newbie to this business. He reiterated that High Def was very important to them and the investment (hundreds of thousands of dollars) is being made in the equipment and production. He mentioned HD a few times, so I got a good feeling that this is a big part of their value proposition.


It sounds like Dolan stands to make a substantial sum with this new Indians network since he won't be sharing the money with Fox Sports Ohio anymore.


I'm off to email my contact at Wide Open West now, to find out if they have a done deal... and as Liberatore said, email/call your cable operator and tell them you want the Indians! Put some pressure on them!


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *calalli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi, I am a long time subscriber, but this may be my first post. I am a long time D* subscriber, with 4 D*Tivo boxes, including an HR10-250 connected through HDMI to a Sammy DLP. I am considering a change to TWC in Green due to the price increase at D* and concerns about the availability of the Indians this season.



In general, if you've been a longtime D*Tivo user, you (and the wife) will be very disapointed with cable DVR. There are no season passes, poor conflict manager, no keyword search, etc. Basically the cable DVR is a glorified VCR.



> Quote:
> My questions are: 1) I would want 4 dvrs, 2 HD and 2 standard, what are the likely boxes and what software are they running? I have read much of several threads about SARA and PASSPORT, but did not see what was available here.



I thought the HD and SD DVRs were the same rental rate, so you might as well get the HD ones. I could be wrong here as I've never had an SD DVR from cable.



> Quote:
> 2) Is the external drive available here? I would need more space than that available on the SA box I think.



Hookbill has added an external drive, but was having recording issues. Not sure where that one stands.



> Quote:
> 3) Has anyone made this change? I care about reliability and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) foremost, and am not sure this would be a smart move. MY wife is an Indians fan, but claims not to see the difference with HD. I expect that D* will get the new Indians feed, but not in HD. I would like both.



I made the change from D* to Adelphia about 14 months ago and will never look back. While the software does lack almost all the functionality of a true Tivo, its grown on me and as long as I'm the one with the remote, my wife doesn't complain. At the time I switched, HD was lacking from D*'s lineup and I was tired of fighting with an OTA antenna. Not to mention rain and snow fade, that drove me batty.



> Quote:
> 4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?



Not quite sure on this one.


One thing I thought of that might sway you one way or another is the anticipated DVR server from SA. Not sure when it will be released, if at all, but if so, and the cable co's carry them, you should be able to plug one of these into your main line, and then stream shows to your other boxes. I'm not holding my breath for one of these, but we can all dream!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm off to email my contact at Wide Open West now, to find out if they have a done deal... and as Liberatore said, email/call your cable operator and tell them you want the Indians! Put some pressure on them!



If hookbill's letter above is indeed the "official Adelphia line", it doesn't sound like it'll be a problem. I don't expect Adelphia to show Spring Training games starting, well, tomorrow...but it sounds like they're on the way to an agreement of some sort.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill has added an external drive, but was having recording issues. Not sure where that one stands.



I've got an RMA on my Maxtor and I'm awaiting delivery of a replacement. I'm positively sure that was causing my recording issues, since disconnecting it last week and going on the 8300's hd only I've had no problems. I probably had a bad external hard drive. I'll follow up a week or so after I receive the replacement and let you know what I find.


However the issue calalli was describing was as to if the 8300 was capable of handling an external hard drive. Again, that depends on the software being used in your area. I don't know what they use in TW land.


I can tell you that from what I've read on the "SA 8300 and External Hard Drive" thread that I have seen no one else with this recording issue but me. So I tend to think I had a bad external hard drive.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually, the first game scheduled by the new company is March 12th:


March 12 vs. NYY (delayed 4:30PM)

March 13 vs. TB (delayed at 7:00PM)

March 14 vs. TOR (delayed at 7:00PM)

March 16 vs. MIN (delayed at 8:00PM)

March 18 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)

March 29 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)

March 30 vs. DET (delayed at 8:00PM)

March 31 vs. CIN (delayed at 7:00PM)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, the first game scheduled by the new company is March 12th:
> 
> 
> March 12 vs. NYY (delayed 4:30PM)
> 
> March 13 vs. TB (delayed at 7:00PM)
> 
> March 14 vs. TOR (delayed at 7:00PM)
> 
> March 16 vs. MIN (delayed at 8:00PM)
> 
> March 18 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)
> 
> March 29 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)
> 
> March 30 vs. DET (delayed at 8:00PM)
> 
> March 31 vs. CIN (delayed at 7:00PM)



Clever. And not so good imho. I hate "delayed" games, specially when they delay them with the clear intention of putting them in "prime time" spots.


I don't record live sports either, I like to see it played out as it happens.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *calalli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1) I would want 4 dvrs, 2 HD and 2 standard, what are the likely boxes and what software are they running? I have read much of several threads about SARA and PASSPORT, but did not see what was available here.



TWC-NEO runs Passport Software.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *calalli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?



Since I cannot find anyway to configure the remote channel I doubt that they have a way to overcome this issue. You may want to consider the TiVo Series 3 when it is released as it should overcome the remote channel issue and provide the TiVo features you had and some you never had.


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> March 1, 2006
> Five Stations Sign With The CW
> 
> By Michele Greppi
> 
> 
> The CW announced Wednesday it has signed exclusive, long-term affiliation agreements with five stations, four of which have been affiliated with The WB and one of which has been an affiliate of UPN.
> 
> 
> When the five new affiliates, which collectively reach 4.32 percent of the TV homes in the country, are added to the 16 Tribune-owned WB stations and 11 CBS-owned UPN stations announced as founding affiliates, The CW's reach rises to almost 52 percent of the country.
> 
> 
> The newly signed affiliates are *WBNX-TV, the Winston Broadcasting Network-owned WB affiliate in Cleveland, the 16th-largest market in the country;* WKCF-TV, the Emmis Communications-owned WB affiliate in Orlando, Fla., designated market area No. 20; WJZY-TV, the Capitol Broadcasting-owned UPN affiliate in Charlotte, N.C., DMA No. 27; WBKI-TV, the Cascade Broadcasting Group-owned WB affiliate in Louisville, Ky., DMA No. 50; and WMWB-TV, the Weigel Broadcasting Co.-owned WB affiliate in South Bend, Ind., DMA No. 87.
> 
> 
> The CW, a 50-50 joint venture of Warner Bros. Entertainment and CBS Corp., is scheduled to launch this fall and is expected to merge the strongest programming of UPN and The WB.


 Source 


WBNX-TV had been planning to begin HD transmission in July of 2006, so will it still go HD now that it has become The CW?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> Source
> 
> 
> WBNX-TV had been planning to begin HD transmission in July of 2006, so will it still go HD now that it has become The CW?



Well, considering that HD transmission is one of the things The CW is looking for, I'd assume so










The question - how? If they aren't able to meet the deadline in July, which seems mostly due to government inaction than anything on WBNX's part, this could prompt them to send out a cable-only feed to local cable systems until such time as the DT transmitter goes up.


----------



## hookbill

Well, color me amazed with this one. I thought for sure that WUAB would get the nod as the CW.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> The newly signed affiliates are WBNX-TV, the Winston Broadcasting Network-owned WB affiliate in Cleveland, the 16th-largest market in the country...



This is great news. There is at least hope now for 5.1 audio on the new CW. If WUAB would have gotten it, we would have been SOL.


----------



## SteveC

There is a short article in the Akron Beacon Journal today concerning WBNX getting the CW affiliation. Sounds like WUAB's penchant for pre-empting prime time programming with sporting events might have been a factor in the decision. You can read the online version of the article here: http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/13998629.htm


----------



## Phoenix2088

Saw it in the Plain Dealer this morning. Bit surprised, but I guess this means HD will be up in the summer. Doubtful CW would take a non-digital station (WBNX) over a digital ready and in HD station (WUAB) if HD wasn't being put up before the debut.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Saw it in the Plain Dealer this morning. Bit surprised, but I guess this means HD will be up in the summer. Doubtful CW would take a non-digital station (WBNX) over a digital ready and in HD station (WUAB) if HD wasn't being put up before the debut.



WBNX is basically antsy to do it, but has had to wait for a long time for the FCC to weigh in on those Canadian issues.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The kick in the pants here is the Canadians are years behind the U.S. in Digital OTA broadcasting, yet they hold WBNX-DT ch 30 hostage. I'm surprised that WOIO did not have the same issues with ch 10 or WJW with ch 31.


Back when I lived in Euclid ch 10 from Canada came in regularally while I never picked up anything on ch 30 from Canada (I did get 2 different ch 31's one from Ann Arbor the other form Canada: a CITY-TV repeater). The only ch 30 I ever got was WGTE from Toledo.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The kick in the pants here is the Canadians are years behind the U.S. in Digital OTA broadcasting, yet they hold WBNX-DT ch 30 hostage. I'm surprised that WOIO did not have the same issues with ch 10 or WJW with ch 31.



It's my understanding that WBNX believes the Canadians are OK with their current DT application...they made some slight modification involving the antenna tilt or something, so they're not throwing as much energy north. But for whatever reason, the FCC has yet to weigh in on the latest application, which has been sitting there for a LONG time!


----------



## stuart628

hey guys...sorry if this has been talked about (dang automtic notifiers) I scanned back through the last 5 pages (again stupid email notifiers) and I didnt see it, could have overlooked it, but I am in mogadore (time warner cable) and I am thinking about switching from dish to time warner (hd-dvr) does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!



According to this, it's on channel 531:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/fsn_highdef.html


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am thinking about switching from dish to time warner (hd-dvr) does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!



TWC-NEO has the Cavs in HD, but does not carry a "Fox Sports Ohio HD."


----------



## stuart628

thank you guys, that has made my decision easy! seems like the war has begun, satellite knows local channels like these are improtant, but cable comapnies lock them up quicker-I know about the bandwidth thing, but with all these sats. being shot up in the air, shouldnt be that much of a [email protected]


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TWC-NEO has the Cavs in HD, but does not carry a "Fox Sports Ohio HD."



That's because other than the Cavs games, there IS no "Fox Sports Ohio HD". It's semantics at this point.










FSN Ohio is not sending anything down the line in digital format aside from the Cavaliers games. The Cavs games are produced by FSN Ohio in HD and labeled as such, but it's not like ESPN/ESPN2HD, where they upconvert SD programming otherwise.


So, what he asked for, as it exists, TWC has.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I noticed yesterday that WEAO-DT has started remapping to channel 49.x (rather than 50.x). I was hoping that this was a sign that they were going to get their PBS HD stream back on the air soon. No HD last night. Perhaps the gentleman from PBS 45&49 (I believe it was Don Freeman?) could update us on the status of the PBS HD stream? I haven't seen him post here in awhile. Is he still out there?


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia has added WKYC's "Weather Plus" on digital cable channel 183.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia has added WKYC's "Weather Plus" on digital cable channel 183.




It's about time. Not that big of a deal really, since you can pull it off the internet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey guys...sorry if this has been talked about (dang automtic notifiers) I scanned back through the last 5 pages (again stupid email notifiers) and I didnt see it, could have overlooked it, but I am in mogadore (time warner cable) and I am thinking about switching from dish to time warner (hd-dvr) does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!




Stuart628 it's up to you but it appears that everyone is going to sign on to the Indians, the only company that seems to be a problem is Cox Cable. At least that is what I read.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed yesterday that WEAO-DT has started remapping to channel 49.x (rather than 50.x). I was hoping that this was a sign that they were going to get their PBS HD stream back on the air soon. No HD last night. Perhaps the gentleman from PBS 45&49 (I believe it was Don Freeman?) could update us on the status of the PBS HD stream? I haven't seen him post here in awhile. Is he still out there?



I was just on their Web site. They list "Create" as 45.5 (the guide is showing their Alliance/Yongstown frequency map) Create used to be on 50.1. WNEO HD is mentioned, but "off air".


I'll have to tune in and remap my 921. I bet the clearing of x.1 is a sign that HD is coming back soon to WNEO/WEAO.


I just took a second look at their schedule: WNEO/WEAO HD is on the air from 6:00 PM to Midnight 7 days a week!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stuart628 it's up to you but it appears that everyone is going to sign on to the Indians, the only company that seems to be a problem is Cox Cable. At least that is what I read.



As far as DirecTV goes, I've read that they're supposedly pretty close to an agreement with SportsTime Ohio. D* usually isn't a problem for this sort of thing... they are one of a few carriers that runs the Washington Nationals' "MASN", which is not picked up by Comcast.


I haven't heard anything about Comcast locally and the new Indians network. Maybe they're negotiating separately like Adelphia is, before the TWC merger.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's about time. Not that big of a deal really, since you can pull it off the internet.



And Adelphia was already getting the signal, as it's a sub on WKYC-DT, which is carried on Adelphia 703 (from 3-1 with HD). They are getting The Ohio Channel the same way, as a sub off of WVIZ-DT (710).


I'm actually surprised how proactive they are at adding stuff, with the merger about 3 months away (late May-ish).


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stuart628 it's up to you but it appears that everyone is going to sign on to the Indians, the only company that seems to be a problem is Cox Cable. At least that is what I read.



I am confused everything I have read and heard states that dish network is pretty much out of the loop and will not be getting this channel, am I wrong!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am confused everything I have read and heard states that dish network is pretty much out of the loop and will not be getting this channel, am I wrong!



I saw an interview with Jim Liberatore on WOIO news (don't start Inundated!







) in which they claimed that there is something on the web from Cox Cable saying that Fastball Sports Productions is trying to stick it to the cable companies. This seemed to be the ONLY company that was really having a problem. In the interview he said negotiations were moving along nicely, even with Cox, and that he expected to have contracts with everyone by opening day. He couldn't guarantee it however.


If your happy with Dish then I wouldn't push the panic button just yet.


Also this has been posted a couple of times:


CLEVELAND -- Fastball Sports Productions President Jim Liberatore today released additional programming details for the Indians television network, which will be known as SportsTime Ohio. He also announced that the long-time game day broadcast team of Mike Hegan, Rick Manning and John Sanders will return and will be joined by WKYC-TV Sports Director Jim Donovan, who will be the host for expanded programming to give fans even more insight into Indians' games and players.


"We are finalizing the details on what promises to be one of the best baseball programming concepts that Indians fans have ever seen," Liberatore said. "Viewers will benefit from the features we are adding, such as High Definition to all of the Indians' home game telecasts [as well as to all of the over-the-air broadcasts that will be seen on WKYC-TV], more programming throughout the season and additional cameras to give the viewer even more to see. This will be a great package that lays a strong foundation for the expansion of SportsTime Ohio in the months and years ahead."


Highlights of the planned Indians programming include: Most games ever -- 130 regular season games, with an additional 20 games to be seen on over-the-air broadcasts by WKYC-TV; also eight (8) Spring Training games will be aired.


High Definition broadcasts with an expanded number of cameras: Fans will see baseball like never before with the addition of high definition production and an increase of two cameras to capture on- and off-field activity. From the first broadcast, crisper action from 10 angles (it was previously eight) and surround sound will help bring the baseball experience into the living rooms of fans.


Weekly program: A 30-minute program hosted by Jim Donovan will look at what's happening in Major League Baseball each week. Don't expect your normal recap show -- the discussion could get a bit irreverent. During the Indians regular season, fans can catch the show's live broadcast on WKYC-TV at 7 p.m. on Monday's with frequent repeats on SportsTime Ohio. During the offseason, Donovan will look at what's happening with players and the business of baseball during a weekly broadcast on SportsTime Ohio.


Liberatore said that Fastball Sports Productions plans to build SportsTime Ohio into a fulltime network that will feature original local programming centering on the interests of Ohio sports fans. Liberatore explained, "We believe there will be strong interest in programming that covers local teams and issues and that understands and speaks to the passions of Ohio sports fans. This can include high school, college and professional games featuring area teams, and other programming -- such as the best historical sports events -- that will be of interest to fans."


Liberatore also confirmed that negotiations are continuing with area cable systems and satellite distributors to locate the programming on those systems. "We believe that our proposals to these systems are fair and reflect the tremendous value of Indians programming, as confirmed in several different viewership surveys," Liberatore said. "We are working hard to ensure that the Indians games and the related programming are available to the widest possible audience, and we encourage fans to contact their cable company or satellite service to let them know they want to see the Indians programming," he concluded.


About Fastball Sports Productions


The Cleveland Indians Baseball Company Limited Partnership established Fastball Sports Productions in December 2005 as an innovative media enterprise to serve a variety of sports programming purposes. Its initial venture is to serve as a regional distribution network for Cleveland Indians baseball games and related productions. Plans are being developed to produce original sports programming that will be of particular interest to Northern Ohio sports fans.


----------



## Inundated

I haven't heard anything that Dish Network was out of the loop at all. I have heard, as mentioned, that DirecTV was close to an agreement, but haven't heard anything negative about Dish Network and their talks with SportsTime Ohio.


And I don't even watch 19 HypeAction News.












(Sorry, couldn't resist







)


----------



## Inundated

Oh, the part about Cox and their website...it's not a claim, it's reality:

http://www.makethemplayfair.com/ 


Though their name is not on the site, Cox Cleveland has confirmed it's theirs. The WHOIS resolves to Ketchum, a PR agency which lists Cox as one of its clients.

http://www.ketchum.com/DisplayWebPag...3,3259,00.html 



> Quote:
> With the experience of eKetchum, Ketchum's digital media-services group - which already has developed online communities and tools for such industry leaders as FedEx, Cox Communications and Cingular Wireless - Ketchum is positioned uniquely to help companies navigate the blogosphere.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, the part about Cox and their website...it's not a claim, it's reality:
> 
> http://www.makethemplayfair.com/
> 
> 
> Though their name is not on the site, Cox Cleveland has confirmed it's theirs. The WHOIS resolves to Ketchum, a PR agency which lists Cox as one of its clients.
> 
> http://www.ketchum.com/DisplayWebPag...3,3259,00.html




So your confirming that the report I heard on 19 Action News is correct!










Sorry, I couldn't resist either.


----------



## stuart628

I guess time will tell, but over at satelliteguys.us their is a thread about this, and it isnt a very positive thread but we will see, I dont think it will matter to me anyways, with the new dish reciever I got my cbs and nbc now sit at 66-67 percent and they both have bad pixilation, so wife approvall factor has gone straight down. She is actually the one requestiong time warner for the HD locals, and on Demand, so I just get the added benfit of cavs and indians! but again for the rest of the providers we shall see I guess/ thanks guys.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So your confirming that the report I heard on 19 Action News is correct!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I couldn't resist either.



Even the biggest tabloid news operation can get something correct when they have the direct source on camera.










Actually, I do watch 19 Tabloid News from time to time. It's the best comedy show on Cleveland TV!


----------



## stuart628

 http://www.satbiznews.com/ 

on the right hand side under todays headlines reads indians and mets still off of dish network (new york mets network SNY is also off of DIsh network because of contract disputes). I really dont think talks are going well, I just wanted to give Dish network subscribers here in cleveland a heads up!


----------



## hookbill

Then pick up the phone and call TW. I'm sure they will be happy to have you.


Sounds like your wife is dissatisfied with Dish anyway. Just remember the DVR you get may not be as good as the one you had with Dish.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Then pick up the phone and call TW. I'm sure they will be happy to have you.
> 
> 
> Sounds like your wife is dissatisfied with Dish anyway. Just remember the DVR you get may not be as good as the one you had with Dish.



Just got off the phone with them, for 74.01, I am getting a hd dvr and a reg dvr, digital cable, plus hbo and hbo on demand, plus roadrunner (which I already have) that is pretty much what I was paying just for dish network, this price is good for 18 months, not bad at all, also an extra 6.95 will get me the Hd package, but I am not hijacking this thread with this info....after reading through the press releases for Sportstime Ohio (who came up with that name? is that the best we can do?) are all 10 cameras at the jake high def? for some reason I got the feeling that some were some werent...does anyone know? and thanks hookbill and inundated for the info!


----------



## Inundated

As far as Dish Network goes, they DO have a reputation of holding the line on paying for new RSNs, and the Indians/STO folks are definitely looking for money. But I don't know how much to read into that one headline on that one site...I'd have to see more than just "still off Dish". They weren't ever there.










As far as the cameras, I thought they would all be HD, but I haven't read that they wouldn't. It has been done before, using one or two widescreen SD cameras for non-important shots.


----------



## paule123

WUAB should just run color bars for the next couple hours. Looks just awful when compared to ESPNHD who is showing the Cavs game at the same time. You never realize how bad SD looks until you see a direct comparison like this.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> are all 10 cameras at the jake high def? for some reason I got the feeling that some were some werent...does anyone know? and thanks hookbill and inundated for the info!



I believe they will all be hi-def. Last I heard they were looking at ~1.5gb uncompressed HD throughput for each camera.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's because other than the Cavs games, there IS no "Fox Sports Ohio HD". It's semantics at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FSN Ohio is not sending anything down the line in digital format aside from the Cavaliers games. The Cavs games are produced by FSN Ohio in HD and labeled as such, but it's not like ESPN/ESPN2HD, where they upconvert SD programming otherwise.
> 
> 
> So, what he asked for, as it exists, TWC has.



OP did not mention Cavs games, but did specifically ask for FSN-Ohio HD. No, it's not enitrely semantics as you mentioned the channel doesn't have a full time digital station like ESPN or TNT. Generally when somebody asks if a channel is available, they mean a 24/7 station not a station only available strictly for a particular sporting events. If you expect to see the Best Damn Sports Show Period digitally, you will not find it, but if you are just looking for Cavs alone, you will. So, when the OP asked if TWC carries FSN-Ohio HD, I correctly responded, "No, but they do carry the Cavs games in HD."


----------



## hookbill

Well, as some of you know I have been posting here about the problems I've had with the SA 8300 recording programs but only having a partial playback available. Last week I determined it was a result of my Maxtor External Hard Drive. I have since received and installed the replacement through warranty.


Last night "Cold Case" recorded for a full hour, yet only 40 minutes was available.


On the "8300 and External HD" thread I reported it again. Nobody else has this problem on a consistant basis. I haven't seen anybody in this thread talk about it but I'm sure that it has something to do with 1. Current Software or 2. Adelphia locally.


Does anyone else in Adelphia land have the Maxtor Quickview External Hard Drive connected to their SATA? Please let me know if you do and if you have any problems.


I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do. I'm not willing to try satellite again. I don't want to give up my additional recording space.


This sucks.


----------



## RexEctor

Not a whole lot of new info here but I did speak to a rep at the STO booth at the Indian's Open House on Saturday at the Jake. I asked him about Adelphia and he sounded like they're close to an agreement. He said Adelphia MAY be onboard befor the March 12th preseason broadcast.


I asked him about Dish and Direct TV and he wouldn't elaborate but did say that the satcos are more difficult to negotiate with and if they do come to terms it would probably be last minute.


----------



## hookbill

FWIW Indians agains NY Mets today 1:00 pm on ESPN and ESPN-HD. Game is in sd but probably 5.1 sound on ESPN HD.


----------



## PBS4549

PBS 45 & 49 Digital (WNEO/WEAO) are now properly remapped to appear on 45.1 - 45.4 and 49.1 - 49.4. The change from 50.1 - 50.4 took place Friday March 3 just before noon.

Our HD signal is in deed returning, but I just can't put a firm date on it. For those of you who have called or emailed me since we discontinued our HD service in October, you know that I have repeatedly said "soon." Our delay is caused by an equipment problem interfacing the program automation system and the HD encoder. Now that we have that piece of equipment we are waiting for the automation equipment manufacturer to re-program the system to allow it to control the HD encoder. Will this fix be days or weeks, I truly don't know. When it is done our schedule will be 4-SD channels from midnight until 7 pm, then HD and 1-SD from 7 pm until midnight. The SDs will be Create on channel 1, our primary service on channel 2, the educational Annenberg/CPB Channel on 3 and The Ohio Channel on 4. HD will replace channel 1 when it is on-air and our primary service SD will be channel 2.

Thank you for your seemingly limitless patience. I really hope we'll soon get things working as we planned.


Don Freeman

Director of Programming and Operations


----------



## JJkizak

PBS4549:

Thanks for your update. It is appreciated.


JJK


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Last night "Cold Case" recorded for a full hour, yet only 40 minutes was available.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else in Adelphia land have the Maxtor Quickview External Hard Drive connected to their SATA? Please let me know if you do and if you have any problems.
> 
> 
> I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do. I'm not willing to try satellite again. I don't want to give up my additional recording space.
> 
> 
> This sucks.



Before you pull (any more) hair out... Sunday night: are you sure Cold Case started on time? I wasn't watching CBS last night, but more often than not Football, and then Golf runs over past 6 p.m. and the entire nightly schedule is shifted back by that time...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Before you pull (any more) hair out... Sunday night: are you sure Cold Case started on time? I wasn't watching CBS last night, but more often than not Football, and then Golf runs over past 6 p.m. and the entire nightly schedule is shifted back by that time...



I scheduled the recording at 9:00 pm, a one time only recording. Even if Cold Case started late it would have still done a one hour recording. It only recorded 40 minutes and as I stated I saw the recording light on all the way up until 10:00 pm.


Oddly enough someone else reported something strange happened to them on Sunday night as well, however this person was watching his recording "live" when the picture froze and his recording light stayed on as well. If your interested look here . He does not have the same type of external hard drive I have, same brand but different model.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, the part about Cox and their website...it's not a claim, it's reality:
> 
> http://www.makethemplayfair.com/
> 
> 
> Though their name is not on the site, Cox Cleveland has confirmed it's theirs. The WHOIS resolves to Ketchum, a PR agency which lists Cox as one of its clients.
> 
> http://www.ketchum.com/DisplayWebPag...3,3259,00.html



Anybody else notice this statement:


> Quote:
> Indians are debuting a new team-owned network, and plan to air 20 less games than FSN ran last year! They are asking some cable companies to pay at least 200% more for this channel!



The "20 less games" are available on free OTA TV!!!! Hey COX we'd still get the same number of games, we just have to tune to WKYC. No big deal.


----------



## Telosian

Great news about 45 and 49, and thanks PBS4549 for letting us know. Bad news about Cold Case, which I don't really follow so I was not that bummed out but I do really like CSI Miami and it did the same thing tonight! It dumped out of record at 33 minutes into the hour. I just happened to see the red light was not on and was able to salvage another fifteen minutes of the show with a manual recording. Sounds like the local punch in ad breaking up the network stream again. Gacccckkkkkkk.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

To Don Freeman (PBS4549):


Thanks for the update. I wish some of the commercial stations in the market were as responsive as you!










Looking forward to PBS HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great news about 45 and 49, and thanks PBS4549 for letting us know. Bad news about Cold Case, which I don't really follow so I was not that bummed out but I do really like CSI Miami and it did the same thing tonight! It dumped out of record at 33 minutes into the hour. I just happened to see the red light was not on and was able to salvage another fifteen minutes of the show with a manual recording. Sounds like the local punch in ad breaking up the network stream again. Gacccckkkkkkk.



Not the same issue I had. My recording light stays on. I'm learning from another thread that what happens is a freeze occures and even though the light for recording stays on the STB stops recording.


Also I recorded CSI:Miami and Medium last night with no problems.


However during my recording of 24 and The Apprentice at 9:50 my SA 8300 felt it was time to reboot so I did loose 5 minutes on both of those shows.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To Don Freeman (PBS4549):
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update. I wish some of the commercial stations in the market were as responsive as you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to PBS HD.



Yes, thank you, Don. Looking forward to PBS-HD as well. Any chance you could give a gentle nudge to your counterpart at WVIZ to join our forum and provide us with an update on their tower issue? Thanks.


AJ


----------



## eml626

Question for anyone running a QAM card on Adelphia or Warner. First is the Cavs channel still unencrypted on Adelphia. Second, what is available unencrypted as far as HD content and regular digital content. I am thinking about getting a card to replace hdtv and digital cable/dvr boxes, I feel like 50 to 60 bucks a month for digital cable which i rarly watch and espn and espn2 hd which I do watch a lot but can't justify it for 60 bucks a month is a waste. Are channels like espnu encrypted? Does anyone know of a good card that can do qam, atsc, and ntsc?


----------



## VSTAR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not the same issue I had. My recording light stays on. I'm learning from another thread that what happens is a freeze occures and even though the light for recording stays on the STB stops recording.
> 
> 
> Also I recorded CSI:Miami and Medium last night with no problems.
> 
> 
> However during my recording of 24 and The Apprentice at 9:50 my SA 8300 felt it was time to reboot so I did loose 5 minutes on both of those shows.



MY 8300 rebooted at least a half dozen times between 10-11:30 last night.


I took it in today and swapped it out. The CSR at the counter was skeptical that I was having an issue with the box. Throwing five or six questions at me as to how I had the box hooked up and if I know it was the box and not my TV.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question for anyone running a QAM card on Adelphia or Warner. First is the Cavs channel still unencrypted on Adelphia.



Last time I looked, it is.


Adelphia's online lineup shows 798/HDBON is "Broadcast HD", so it's not encrypted and it isn't in the HD Plus tier:



> Quote:
> 798 HD BONUS FEATURES HD Bonus Features Broadcast HD (High Definition)



Discovery HD (776) is listed the same way, and is "in the clear" via QAM.


Here's what I'm getting in the clear:


* All local HD broadcast stations (WKYC, WEWS, WOIO, WJW, WVIZ)

* All local SD digital simulcasts of said stations (all of the above plus WUAB)

* 776/Discovery HD

* 798/HDBON

* 181/OHIO (WVIZ's "Ohio Channel" SD subchannel)

* 183/WTHR+ (WKYC's Weather Plus, also SD)


I think LOGO is in there as well (SD) as well as 300/BARK - no, not a dog channel, but the "BARKER" preview channel for PPV.


Each time Adelphia adds one of those SD digital channels, it has the proper cable box channel and name in the PSIP info.


I would assume BARK is there because it's just an in-house advertising channel, but I don't know why LOGO is on the list and other digital cable non-"plus" stations aren't.


----------



## stuart628

just got my 8300Hd (living room) and 8300 (bedroom) installed, wife is happy, so am I, only one problem, tonight around 8:56 or so, I was watching (and recording) american idol, it was towards the end, when it paused and froze, I stopped the recording maybe thinking something was wrong, but all it did was back up 2 seconds and freeze at the same spot, change the channel up, then down once and it did the same thing, backed up 2 seconds and froze in the same spot as before, I changed to the analog channel, then came back to the HD channel, and it was now at the live t.v. point, wondering if I should expect hiccups like this or was there something in the signal that made it do this? or if someone had any ideas! thanks guys, other then this, I am in heaven! I mean cavs in HD? and the indians on the way!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> just got my 8300Hd (living room) and 8300 (bedroom) installed, wife is happy, so am I, only one problem, tonight around 8:56 or so, I was watching (and recording) american idol, it was towards the end, when it paused and froze, I stopped the recording maybe thinking something was wrong, but all it did was back up 2 seconds and freeze at the same spot, change the channel up, then down once and it did the same thing, backed up 2 seconds and froze in the same spot as before, I changed to the analog channel, then came back to the HD channel, and it was now at the live t.v. point, wondering if I should expect hiccups like this or was there something in the signal that made it do this? or if someone had any ideas! thanks guys, other then this, I am in heaven! I mean cavs in HD? and the indians on the way!




This problem is being discussed in the SA 8300 and SATA forum. It happens more to people who have added an external HD (like me). Expect it to happen from time to time. Rebooting once a week may (or may not) help.


What you would have seen if you were not watching it at the time was a partial recording (up to the point where it froze). There is only speculation as to what causes this and don't expect any answer from your cable company or Scientific Atlanta any time soon.


----------



## EricG

Thank you Don.

I look forward to seeing HD back on PBS. I was able to see it pre October on CH50 and it looked spectacular! I am still getting programming on 50-1 to -4 but now it's duplicated on 49-1 to -4 on my HR10-250. The Guide data is correct on 49-2, but incorrect on 49-1 and 49-3. "Regular Programming" shows up on 49-4. Right now at 4:30pm the guide show "The Piano Guy"on 49-1, but Create is on. "Maya and Miguel" is listed on 49-3 but the educational stuff is on.


Other than that, it's good!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PBS 45 & 49 Digital (WNEO/WEAO) are now properly remapped to appear on 45.1 - 45.4 and 49.1 - 49.4. The change from 50.1 - 50.4 took place Friday March 3 just before noon.
> 
> Our HD signal is in deed returning, but I just can't put a firm date on it. For those of you who have called or emailed me since we discontinued our HD service in October, you know that I have repeatedly said "soon." Our delay is caused by an equipment problem interfacing the program automation system and the HD encoder. Now that we have that piece of equipment we are waiting for the automation equipment manufacturer to re-program the system to allow it to control the HD encoder. Will this fix be days or weeks, I truly don't know. When it is done our schedule will be 4-SD channels from midnight until 7 pm, then HD and 1-SD from 7 pm until midnight. The SDs will be Create on channel 1, our primary service on channel 2, the educational Annenberg/CPB Channel on 3 and The Ohio Channel on 4. HD will replace channel 1 when it is on-air and our primary service SD will be channel 2.
> 
> Thank you for your seemingly limitless patience. I really hope we'll soon get things working as we planned.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Director of Programming and Operations


----------



## Michael P 2341

With WBNX getting the CW network speculation over WUAB getting the new FOX network "My TV Network" may be true.

http://www.mediabuyerplanner.com/200...otal/index.php 


> Quote:
> My Network TV's new affiliates include outlets in Cleveland (market rank number 16)



While the article does not list the affilliate by name, who else would get MTVN?


----------



## hookbill

MTVN? No way are they going to get away with that acronym.


Still I'd have to say your probably right on your speculation. Besides their parent company owns a FOX station in Cincinnati.


----------



## Inundated

It's not speculation - it's fact. WUAB will be running "My Network TV" in the fall:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...=Breaking+News 



> Quote:
> Fox's new My Network TV inked deals with five affiliates Tuesday, bringing its distribution to 40% of the country. Raycom Media is committing three of its stations - WUAB Cleveland, KFVE Honolulu and WBXH Baton Rouge, La. - to the new mini-network, which is launching Sept. 5.



BTW, it's "My Network TV", not "My TV Network" (though both sound equally silly).


----------



## Inundated

The Beacon Journal's website says R.D. Heldenfels will have more on the WUAB/My Network TV thing in tomorrow's paper.


----------



## RussTC3

So PBS HD is coming back soon, and we'll be getting a My Network TV station in our area as well. Pretty cool that come this Fall we'll have every broadcast market in the US in the Cleveland market.


Just curious about My Network TV. Will they be broadcasting 1080i, like the current WUAB is? Or is none of their content going to be HD?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you Don.
> 
> I look forward to seeing HD back on PBS. I was able to see it pre October on CH50 and it looked spectacular! I am still getting programming on 50-1 to -4 but now it's duplicated on 49-1 to -4 on my HR10-250. The Guide data is correct on 49-2, but incorrect on 49-1 and 49-3. "Regular Programming" shows up on 49-4. Right now at 4:30pm the guide show "The Piano Guy"on 49-1, but Create is on. "Maya and Miguel" is listed on 49-3 but the educational stuff is on.
> 
> 
> Other than that, it's good!



EricG, are you receiving WEAO-DT via cable or satellite? I am receiving OTA and I have never received guide information for WEAO-DT on either channel 49 or 50. All I get is "no information". In addition, the time of day when I tune to WEAO-DT is way off (several hours).


The other station in the market with this problem is WOIO-DT. No guide data and time of day way off. Funny thing is, their sister station WUAB-DT has guide data and correct time of day.


Anybody else have the missing guide data and incorrect time of day for OTA reception of WOIO-DT and WEAO-DT?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So PBS HD is coming back soon, and we'll be getting a My Network TV station in our area as well. Pretty cool that come this Fall we'll have every broadcast market in the US in the Cleveland market.
> 
> 
> Just curious about My Network TV. Will they be broadcasting 1080i, like the current WUAB is? Or is none of their content going to be HD?



Pure speculation here but I will bet they will have HD content. Fox generally broadcast in 780p. I don't know if that would mean equipment changes but I don't think "Cheapcom" will shell out any money for new broadcast equipment.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last time I looked, it is.
> 
> 
> Adelphia's online lineup shows 798/HDBON is "Broadcast HD", so it's not encrypted and it isn't in the HD Plus tier:



It is now (in the HD Plus Tier). I just looked the other night when the Cavaliers game was in HD and that channel didn't appear in the guide or by scrolling or going directly to it. I just looked today and indeed that channel is there now. Do they remove it when the game starts or is this a new change today? It says something like "Tune to this channel for extra HD content & programming...only here on 798 in HDTV".


----------



## rlb

I'm currently a D*/HD Tivo user but am evaluating options of eventually changing to cable. Which company (TW or Comcast) is going to end up with the Cleveland suburbs after the Adelphia deal is implemented? When is that due to happen? Which STB do they use and is it a good one?


Thanks for the help.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious about My Network TV. Will they be broadcasting 1080i, like the current WUAB is? Or is none of their content going to be HD?



Oddly enough, I haven't seen a single mention of HD content in the My Network TV stories.


I assume they will, though which standard they'll use, I don't know. As noted, FOX (MNTV parent) uses 720p.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is now (in the HD Plus Tier). I just looked the other night when the Cavaliers game was in HD and that channel didn't appear in the guide or by scrolling or going directly to it. I just looked today and indeed that channel is there now. Do they remove it when the game starts or is this a new change today? It says something like "Tune to this channel for extra HD content & programming...only here on 798 in HDTV".



Yes, it's been like that the past few days. The channel doesn't have any guide data, though it did the first night the channel hit the boxes. There wasn't much in the data - just the pre-game/game/post-game - but it was there and is not now.


I meant that 798 was in the Broadcast HD tier (with the OTA network affiliates and Discovery HD), as opposed to being in the HD Plus tier (with the channels you pay extra for).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm currently a D*/HD Tivo user but am evaluating options of eventually changing to cable. Which company (TW or Comcast) is going to end up with the Cleveland suburbs after the Adelphia deal is implemented? When is that due to happen? Which STB do they use and is it a good one?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.



My understanding is the majority of Adelphia customers in our area are going to TW. They use the SA 8300. How good it is compares to what your use to.


Since your a D*/HD TiVo user you will think it's a piece of crap. If your using OTA for your locals and your successful with it I'd stay where your at.


It's real difficult for those of us who've experienced dual tuner TiVo to adjust to the SA 8300. No wish list. 7 day guide that doesn't differentiate between new episodes and reruns. Terrible search function. No season passes, though you can set up regular recordings of your shows.


If you are one of the lucky ones who go to Comcast (and that's a matter of opinion too) eventually you will have a TiVo STB.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, I haven't seen a single mention of HD content in the My Network TV stories.
> 
> 
> I assume they will, though which standard they'll use, I don't know. As noted, FOX (MNTV parent) uses 720p.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's been like that the past few days. The channel doesn't have any guide data, though it did the first night the channel hit the boxes. There wasn't much in the data - just the pre-game/game/post-game - but it was there and is not now.
> 
> 
> I meant that 798 was in the Broadcast HD tier (with the OTA network affiliates and Discovery HD), as opposed to being in the HD Plus tier (with the channels you pay extra for).



Ahhh...gotcha. I wish it had been there for the Cavs game on Monday, but I'll look forward to seeing the game on the 28th in HD. So you are saying they are going to show the CAVS in HD on that channel right?? I see the channel in the guide, but with no programming info. It just says 240 min. I'm guessing there's nothing there because nothing is on the schedule and when there is programming, that info might appear in the guide as you said "pre-game/game/post-game" etc...


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My understanding is the majority of Adelphia customers in our area are going to TW. They use the SA 8300. How good it is compares to what your use to.
> 
> 
> Since your a D*/HD TiVo user you will think it's a piece of crap. If your using OTA for your locals and your successful with it I'd stay where your at.
> 
> 
> It's real difficult for those of us who've experienced dual tuner TiVo to adjust to the SA 8300. No wish list. 7 day guide that doesn't differentiate between new episodes and reruns. Terrible search function. No season passes, though you can set up regular recordings of your shows.
> 
> 
> If you are one of the lucky ones who go to Comcast (and that's a matter of opinion too) eventually you will have a TiVo STB.



Yeah I think even the standard Comcast Motorola HD box seems nicer than the SA. I've played with it at a friends house for a few minutes and the menu system looks slicker. Not sure if it's more functional though.


----------



## terryfoster

Those of you Adelphia customers switching to TWC could get lucky and your firmware could get "upgraded" from SARA to Passport out of this deal. It won't happen immediately, but depending on how controlling TWC is, they may want everyone to have the same firmware. That could give you improved performance of the SA8300HD, but not improved functionality. Plus Hookbill will lose his SATA drive.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those of you Adelphia customers switching to TWC could get lucky and your firmware could get "upgraded" from SARA to Passport out of this deal. It won't happen immediately, but depending on how controlling TWC is, they may want everyone to have the same firmware. That could give you improved performance of the SA8300HD, but not improved functionality. Plus Hookbill will lose his SATA drive.



I doubt that. Not all TW uses Passport, I think it would be a pia to switch.


And more importantly as you stated hookbill would lose his SATA.


----------



## Inundated

A few things here...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My understanding is the majority of Adelphia customers in our area are going to TW.



Actually, ALL Northeast Ohio Adelphia customers - those on the Cleveland system - are going to TWC. (I believe this includes the separate cluster down in Dover/New Philadelphia, but I'm not positive about that part of it.)


In addition, Comcast's Cleveland operation will also go to TWC. Comcast will not operate any systems in Northeast Ohio after the merger. In some other cities outside of Ohio, it'll be the opposite...but here, Comcast goes away.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ahhh...gotcha. I wish it had been there for the Cavs game on Monday, but I'll look forward to seeing the game on the 28th in HD. So you are saying they are going to show the CAVS in HD on that channel right?? I see the channel in the guide, but with no programming info. It just says 240 min. I'm guessing there's nothing there because nothing is on the schedule and when there is programming, that info might appear in the guide as you said "pre-game/game/post-game" etc...



Right, the game will be on 798 that night. The guide data for the game only appeared the first night that 798 showed up on the box, and I haven't seen it since that night. I wish they would put it in, if only so I could set up the 8000HD to record it! On my 8000HD, there is no data at all, not even in those 240 minute blocks. (Of course, I could set up a manual recording on my Fusion if I really wanted to do so.







)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I doubt that. Not all TW uses Passport, I think it would be a pia to switch.



I would not bet the farm on this, but I don't believe TWC/NEO uses Passport. I could be wrong. I wish Tiffany was still around to answer that one...she didn't stick around long!


----------



## stuart628

I have passport software on my sa8300HD from Twc, this is all I have seen from them....also for the simplicity of Customer Service, I am going to go out on a limb and say that is all they use in the Northeast Ohio region. Now if that is the case, who knows how long before they switch everyone out, Time Warner is not known for speed in these areas...Also one quick thought, is CAVSHD, just turning into Indians HD when the season opens or will there be a serperate STOHD channel?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricHarrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you are right, there is no 5.1 in cleveland right now. if anyone is close, it is ABC, but they have been saying that they will upgrade soon, but they never do..



3-1 and 8-1 are 5.1. Sounds strange, but it's true.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have passport software on my sa8300HD from Twc, this is all I have seen from them....also for the simplicity of Customer Service, I am going to go out on a limb and say that is all they use in the Northeast Ohio region.



OK, I think I know the problem. I believe I saw the standard SA software on my sister's cable box, but they don't have a DVR over there...just an HD cable box.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now if that is the case, who knows how long before they switch everyone out, Time Warner is not known for speed in these areas...Also one quick thought, is CAVSHD, just turning into Indians HD when the season opens or will there be a serperate STOHD channel?



As far as I know, STO's HD channel will be separate from FSN Ohio/Cavs HD on Time Warner. I'm not sure about Adelphia, which is calling the channel "HD BONUS" and may well cherry pick, assuming it gets STO before the TWC merger.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 3-1 and 8-1 are 5.1. Sounds strange, but it's true.



And 5-1 is 2.0!


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> assuming it gets STO before the TWC merger.



This is very very true! also I thought I might be crazy but I have passport software (actually under the diagnostic channel its version is passport echo 1.8 something something something)


----------



## terryfoster

Wow, I wasn't aware of the Comcast deal. Sounds like there will be (from what I understand) 3 TWC regions in NEO. You'll have TWC-NEO, TWC-NEO-Former Comcast, and TWC-NEO-Former Adelphia. Since that's alot of variety in a very small area i'll bet they will probably want to merge the three giving you one channel lineup, one software platform, one set of standard hardware, and less maintenance/support headaches for TWC. This won't happen quickly, but TWC seems to have a fairly standard package of features that they will want to put in place as soon as possible.


Again, this brings up the very interesting question of "What's going to happen to my email address?" for Comcast and Adelphia subscribers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would not bet the farm on this, but I don't believe TWC/NEO uses Passport. I could be wrong. I wish Tiffany was still around to answer that one...she didn't stick around long!



Funny, I was thinking about her the other day. Lol. She lasted I think two posts.










TWC still has to use the existing system that Adelphia has in place. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I do know that the system has to be compatible to the software, not vice versa.


Still if they do somehow switch to passport it doesn't mean the absolute end of external hard drive. Word has been out for sometime that there will be a version of Passport that will activate SATA.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still if they do somehow switch to passport it doesn't mean the absolute end of external hard drive. Word has been out for sometime that there will be a version of Passport that will activate SATA.



Though it does appear that TWCNEO uses Passport for their SA DVRs, it *will* take some time for the integration described above. It won't be an automatic switch on May 31st or whatever the target date is.


I do agree with Terry that they'll likely eventually migrate all the pieces they bring in, to the same lineup, etc....give or take a few local differences, like now, where TWC's Akron system carries WAOH-LP/29, and TWC's Canton system carries WIVM/52.


----------



## terryfoster

While SARA vs. Passport is a pretty big deal, think about the Motorola vs. SA conversion that will most likely take place *some day* with the TWC-NEO-Formerly Comcast people


----------



## hookbill

Good point Terry. Hopefully they'll have their hands full with that before they get to me.










On the other hand if they do switch to Passport I wonder what would happen to my recordings? Let's say I have 5 days of programming on the HD. I would think it would have to reformat to accept totally new software. Bye Bye recordings?


Suddenly I'm not looking forward to this so much.


----------



## EricG

Im getting locals OTA with my DirecTV HD DVR. The guide data for 50-1 to 4 has been "Not Available" since 8/05 when I first bought the rcvr.

Since last Friday when they re-mapped 50 to 49 has the guide been good for 49-1 and -2.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> EricG, are you receiving WEAO-DT via cable or satellite? I am receiving OTA and I have never received guide information for WEAO-DT on either channel 49 or 50. All I get is "no information". In addition, the time of day when I tune to WEAO-DT is way off (several hours).
> 
> 
> The other station in the market with this problem is WOIO-DT. No guide data and time of day way off. Funny thing is, their sister station WUAB-DT has guide data and correct time of day.
> 
> 
> Anybody else have the missing guide data and incorrect time of day for OTA reception of WOIO-DT and WEAO-DT?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Im getting locals OTA with my DirecTV HD DVR. The guide data for 50-1 to 4 has been "Not Available" since 8/05 when I first bought the rcvr.
> 
> Since last Friday when they re-mapped 50 to 49 has the guide been good for 49-1 and -2.



You should delete and rescan WEAO because they have:

49.1, "Create"

49.2, mirror of WEAO analog

49.3, "The Annenberg CPB Channel" (telecourses)

49.4, "The Ohio Channel" (I call this one C-Span of Columbus)







This one is also on WVIZ (if you are lucky enough to live within 2 miles of Brookpark & State Rds.)










When the HD channel comes on line most of the SD subchannels sign off for the part of the day that PBD HD is on. At that point you would have just 49.1 HD & 49.2 mirror of the analog channel.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the other hand if they do switch to Passport I wonder what would happen to my recordings? Let's say I have 5 days of programming on the HD. I would think it would have to reformat to accept totally new software. Bye Bye recordings?
> 
> 
> Suddenly I'm not looking forward to this so much.



I tend to think you're screwed, too...I don't see how they could transfer the existing recordings done by the SARA software. But I could be wrong.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 49.4, "The Ohio Channel" (I call this one C-Span of Columbus)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is also on WVIZ (if you are lucky enough to live within 2 miles of Brookpark & State Rds.)



Adelphia actually carries this on digital 181, off of the WVIZ-DT feed (which they carry HD on 710).


I'm still wondering how far along the North Royalton project is.


----------



## jtscherne

 DirecTV, Tribe play hardball for now


----------



## hookbill

Nope that doesn't look good. Once they announce the other companies that have signed it will be up to D* customers to put the pressure on them to sign on.


----------



## DaMavs

And to think I was mostly worried about not getting the HD games on D*! Hadn't really considered the option of NO games via D*...


How come it seems there are no "good" options for receiving TV anymore? It's more pick an evil. How long 'til FIOS hits Cleveland?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And to think I was mostly worried about not getting the HD games on D*! Hadn't really considered the option of NO games via D*...
> 
> 
> How come it seems there are no "good" options for receiving TV anymore? It's more pick an evil. How long 'til FIOS hits Cleveland?



Well, they won't stop you from getting 20 HD games on WKYC.


I know, little conciliation. And you would have to do it OTA (as of now). Or watch on SD via DTV.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And 5-1 is 2.0!



But 5-1 is attempting to be 5.1. Unfortunately, it appears 19-1 will be 2.0 forever!


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, they won't stop you from getting 20 HD games on WKYC.
> 
> 
> I know, little conciliation. And you would have to do it OTA (as of now). Or watch on SD via DTV.



Some concilation at least. Although ironically I picked up a 20 game package for this season which is primarily weekends, i.e. when WKYC will be carrying games, so there's a reasonable chance I'll be at ~ half the games they carry in person vs. enjoying the HD-OTA feed...


And at least 3.1 comes in fairly well for me OTA so I can at least get some HD Tribe games, if not all of 'em...


----------



## EricG

Michael-

I'm getting the channels, it's just that the guide data is wrong for -1,-3 and reads "regular schedule" on -4.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should delete and rescan WEAO because they have:
> 
> 49.1, "Create"
> 
> 49.2, mirror of WEAO analog
> 
> 49.3, "The Annenberg CPB Channel" (telecourses)
> 
> 49.4, "The Ohio Channel" (I call this one C-Span of Columbus)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is also on WVIZ (if you are lucky enough to live within 2 miles of Brookpark & State Rds.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the HD channel comes on line most of the SD subchannels sign off for the part of the day that PBD HD is on. At that point you would have just 49.1 HD & 49.2 mirror of the analog channel.


----------



## RussTC3

So what's the quality of PBS HD like? Since the time I've had my HD receiver, I haven't seen PBS HD yet.


----------



## JJkizak

RussTC3:

OTA it was outstanding when I got a signal. When the signal is weak it jumps in an out and just totally drives you nuts. A weak signal is totally unwatchable. It's not like analog whereas the sound never fades out so you don't loose continuity. I watched it on my buddies Samsung DLP in aurora (Adelphia) and it was not as good as my OTA. I might add that he was really upset when he found out that he couldn't view everything in widescreen mode with his new widescreen TV. When I left his house he was still watching short fat people. (stretched SD)


JJK


----------



## Inundated

More on the Tribe and DirecTV, along with cable system negotiations:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...-standoff.html 



> Quote:
> UPDATE: SportsTime Ohio has now put up a pull-down list on its website of what appears to be every major and minor multichannel TV provider in its Ohio territory, and it's pretty easy to tell which agreements are likely to be announced soon.
> 
> 
> We've gone through each system, and only the following systems show that they "fully expect an agreement soon": Adelphia, Comcast, Cox, Buckeye Cablesystem (Toledo) and Buckeye's Erie County Cablevision sister system. That phrase next to Cox is interesting, since Cox is the driving force behind the MakeThemPlayFair.com website, which is still up as of this writing.
> 
> 
> For systems that are not in the "fully expect an agreement" category, including DirecTV, Dish Network and other providers not listed above, STO "helpfully" provides a phone number to call them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> More on the Tribe and DirecTV, along with cable system negotiations:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...-standoff.html



The "fully expect an agreement" comment was exactly what Adelphia said to me in that email I posted. But I am surprised that the list contains so many others who they do not have that statement for. It sounded earlier like only one or two providers that may be a problem.


I guess that "one or two" could be Dish and Direct, though WOW is also not on the list. I think everyone else is really kind of outside the immediate Cleveland area.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess that "one or two" could be Dish and Direct, though WOW is also not on the list. I think everyone else is really kind of outside the immediate Cleveland area.



Well, if (judging from STO's comments to the PD) "expect an agreement" means they're pretty close to signing, look at this lineup:


Time Warner (primary outlet)

Adelphia

Comcast

Cox

Buckeye Cablesystem (dominant Toledo provider)/Erie County Cablevision (co-owned Sandusky provider)

A few very small cable systems (TSC, Wadsworth City, Doylestown, etc.)


That pretty much gets you by far the largest chunk of the cable viewers in Cleveland/Akron/Canton/Youngstown and even up to Toledo, and much of Columbus and mid-Ohio via TWC.


Not included:


WOW Cable (Cleveland and Columbus alternative provider)

Insight (Columbus' second largest provider)

Armstrong (Medina, south suburban Youngstown)

Massillon Cable/Clear Picture Wooster (both same owner)

DirectTV

Dish Network

A bunch of tiny cable systems not signed up above


If they sign up nearly all the big name providers in Cleveland/Akron/Northeast Ohio, they can nudge the satellite guys.


----------



## Speedskater

Just after midnight Friday night, my Cox S.A. 8300HD rebooted itself! Strange to watch, first parts of the PiP disappeared, then parts of the main picture, then it went black, turned itself off, went through boot and finally it turned itself completely off.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> DirecTV, Tribe play hardball for now










The last time there was an increase in the cost to carry the Tribe games (via FSN Ohio the 2nd year they had 150 games) "D*" had the games but "E*" did not.


In the past you could always count on D* to get every possible RSN signed on.

Of course that was before Rupert Murdoch owned the company. Looks like both DBS systems will be without the Indians.







As was mentioned in the article this will affect MLB EI via satellite.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last time there was an increase in the cost to carry the Tribe games (via FSN Ohio the 2nd year they had 150 games) "D*" had the games but "E*" did not.
> 
> 
> In the past you could always count on D* to get every possible RSN signed on.
> 
> Of course that was before Rupert Murdoch owned the company. Looks like both DBS systems will be without the Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As was mentioned in the article this will affect MLB EI via satellite.



They will come around. Maybe not buy opening day but they will come around.


This reminds me of the time that D* decided not to show WWE PPV. So WWE was on every week explaining to people how they can get Dish with a special WWE offer. It didn't go on to long, D* caved in. They will this time too.


----------



## jtscherne

I wouldn't be sure of E*. They still don't carry the YES Network...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be sure of E*. They still don't carry the YES Network...



Well, who the heck wants YES around here? God, I see enough of the Yankees on Fox all summer long.


Oh...Maybe your saying that they don't have YES in NY. I guess I see your point.


Well, if you want to watch the Indians, if it's that important to you and you have E* I would probably be thinking about a change of some sort. Either cable where you have your best shot or you can hope for D* to come around.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, who the heck wants YES around here? God, I see enough of the Yankees on Fox all summer long.
> 
> 
> Oh...Maybe your saying that they don't have YES in NY. I guess I see your point.
> 
> 
> Well, if you want to watch the Indians, if it's that important to you and you have E* I would probably be thinking about a change of some sort. Either cable where you have your best shot or you can hope for D* to come around.



I decided the cable route, sorry indians are too important to me, and I know how E* plays, they really dont like price increases.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How come it seems there are no "good" options for receiving TV anymore? It's more pick an evil. How long 'til FIOS hits Cleveland?



For a FIOS-equivalent, you'll have to wait for SBC aka "The New AT&T" to get "Project Lightspeed" going in the Cleveland area. I'm not holding my breath. I've never been impressed with SBC's technology in the Cleveland area. It's kind of funny, for the past few years, I've seen SBC trucks all over the place pulling new fiber, but all I've got to show for it is a crappy DSL line at home and the best we can do at my office in Mayfield Village is a (very expensive) 1.5Mbps T1 line. And our office is a stone's throw from Progressive's world headquarters, you'd think they could do better around there for broadband internet.


From what I've read Project Lightspeed starts at about $60 a month, so I'll bet there will be little cost savings, if any over the existing satellite/cable options.


AFAIK, SBC doesn't plan on running fiber directly to the home like Verizon. They think they can make it work by running fiber to a local node, then going the last proverbial "mile" via copper to your house. It will be interesting to see how well that handles multiple HD channels and a fast internet connection.


The Lightspeed thread is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=638947&page=1 

It's mostly worthless press releases, since nobody seems to actually have the service yet... AT&T is having legal troubles already - they don't think they should have to pay local cable franchise fees, and the communities AT&T wants to service aren't happy about that.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I decided the cable route, sorry indians are too important to me, and I know how E* plays, they really dont like price increases.



What if your cable option also does not carry STO? Even though COX was listed on the Ohiomedia Blogspot as one of the systems who are about to sign-on, keep in mind that COX is the system behind the "Fair Play" site. That is my only choice other than E* which I have now and D* which I could switch to, however it's not looking too good for any DBS right now. The usually quick-to-sign D* is "playing hardball" with Fastball. That does not look too promising when D* is balking.


Why doesn't Fastball/STO just charge more for the commercials to make up the difference?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What if your cable option also does not carry STO? Even though COX was listed on the Ohiomedia Blogspot as one of the systems who are about to sign-on, keep in mind that COX is the system behind the "Fair Play" site.



And it's so noted in the article as well, that dichotomy. I, too, was surprised to see Cox without the phone number and with the "expect an agreement" notation. (It's in the STO menu pulldown for Cox, not original to the cited blog entry.)


Maybe STO backed off a little to allow the "ring of cable systems" carrying it, putting pressure on D*?


As far as Dish Network goes, they also do not carry the Washington Nationals' MASN RSN. They didn't all of last year, and it doesn't look like they'll carry it this year... if D* is balking at STO's numbers, Charlie Ergen must have shouted back obscenities!


----------



## paule123

So.... nobody checked out the inaugural Indians game on STO today?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So.... nobody checked out the inaugural Indians game on STO today?



I did I watched the first inning, then had work to do! not bad, I just will wait till time warner gets a full time 24 hour channel up and not use the local one, I will pass judgement there, but there were no hiccups as I was watching, and the tribe won, so...good channel so far


----------



## Inundated

Oh, I forgot STO was up and running. Unless they threw it on without telling anyone, it's not yet on Adelphia.







Their schedule says they're back tomorrow, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday night.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did I watched the first inning, then had work to do! not bad, I just will wait till time warner gets a full time 24 hour channel up and not use the local one, I will pass judgement there, but there were no hiccups as I was watching, and the tribe won, so...good channel so far



The STO ad in the Beacon Journal the other day did specify TWC's local programming channel (23). I wonder if they're gonna change that at some point, if only for the collision between the Indians' games and WKYC's own Akron/Canton News...


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I guess that could be. So would this apply to DD DVD content as well because for DVD's on my system, I'm usually around -36db's to -40db's, not -20dbs. They are definately lower volume than most TV shows, but still no where near as low as the Olympics have been. It does make some sense that feeds coming from Europe might not be using a standard that is used for most DVD and TV content in the USA. The only thing is, wouldn't all of that stuff be NBC's equipment and come from America?



Sorry to take so long to reply - I haven't been here in a month or so.


Yes, it definitely applies to DVDs as well. If they were recorded "louder", then they wouldn't be able to have the dynamic range that most movies demand. And where the equipment comes from isn't really the issue - it's more a question of where the engineers come from who are choosing the settings for the equipment.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot STO was up and running. Unless they threw it on without telling anyone, it's not yet on Adelphia.



Your not expecting to see a screen saying "Adelphia now carrying Indians on STO on channel XX" are you? They only use that for important announcements like "New channel added; Come enjoy the excitement of watching grass grow on the Green Channel, now located for digital subscribers on channel XXX."


----------



## Tom in OH

What's happening with 5.1 (ABC channel 15) ota today? It shows a good signal on the meter but no video or sound.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's happening with 5.1 (ABC channel 15) ota today? It shows a good signal on the meter but no video or sound.



I get WEWS at an average 117 signal strength and live just a little bit over a mile from the transmitter.


The last few days I have been getting sporadic dropouts. They come and go so fast that the signal strenght meter does not have time to dip (actually I see the dip after the picture and sound returns.


WEWS-DT has had problems with their transmitter recently. A few months ago they were running at reduced power (I believe they made the fix just in time for the Super Bowl).


The way the signal keeps cutting in and out leads me to believe they still have some issues with the transmitter. If I can see problems here at the 'tenna farm, I'm willing to bet it's worse just about everywhere else.


----------



## Inundated

I'm hearing that Comcast may have added SportsTime Ohio on cable channel 73. Can anyone out here with Comcast confirm that?


----------



## Tom in OH




Michael P 2341 said:


> I get WEWS at an average 117 signal strength and live just a little bit over a mile from the transmitter.
> 
> 
> The last few days I have been getting sporadic dropouts. They come and go so fast that the signal strenght meter does not have time to dip (actually I see the dip after the picture and sound returns.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Thx Michael,
> 
> Channel 5 has been spotty lately but I thought it might be weather related. It's back on now.


----------



## StanZ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm hearing that Comcast may have added SportsTime Ohio on cable channel 73. Can anyone out here with Comcast confirm that?



Not on Comcast Mentor.


----------



## stuart628

They now have a HD channel for Time warner cable Northeast ohio on sportimes web page, it will be channel 523...just for those interested, so Cavs HD is 531 nad STO is 523...have a great night!


----------



## hookbill

We were talking about the upcoming Adelphia/TWC merge. The feeling here seemed to be that TWC would make it a comprehesive "All In One" sytem for TWC/NEO. More importantly, they would switch from SARA to Passport. I would lose my External Hard Drive.


I really think that would be quite expensive and basically not possible. Talking about this on the thread "8300 and External SATA-It Works" one knowledgeable person feels this will not happen.

*davehancock:I don't think that you will see any sort of SARA to Passport change. Both are used on various TW systems, and that happens because a system is built around one system or the other. It is virtually impossible to change a system.


So rest assured, your external drive is safe in Ohio.


BTW: I'm on TW Rochester - it's SARA.*


I told him I hope he was right. He responded with this: 


I CHALLENGE anyone to report* where a major system has converted from SARA to Passport, or visa versa. I just don't believe that has ever happened. (But I am open).


*Report means: Person identifying this is identified (in a manner he/she can be contacted directly, not just some internet moniker), naming the system (TW Columbus, OH), the approximate date the change took place, the change (SARA to Passport) and how this person came to know the change took place.



I like his confidence!


----------



## kosar1985

i'm getting around 85-90 reception, yet channe l3.1 cuts in and out all the time. Does any one else have this problem?


----------



## terryfoster

I hope for your sake he's right. Something big will have to happen in that general area anyway since I highly doubt that TWC will keep the Comcast network and equipment.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I scheduled the recording at 9:00 pm, a one time only recording. Even if Cold Case started late it would have still done a one hour recording. It only recorded 40 minutes and as I stated I saw the recording light on all the way up until 10:00 pm.
> 
> 
> Oddly enough someone else reported something strange happened to them on Sunday night as well, however this person was watching his recording "live" when the picture froze and his recording light stayed on as well. If your interested look here . He does not have the same type of external hard drive I have, same brand but different model.



Hookbill, I thought you'd be interested to know that this phenomenon struck me this past Sunday while recording & watching The West Wing. The picture froze but the recording light stayed on and the list reported the show as being 1 hour so we just switched to something else to let it finish. However when we came back to it we saw only about 40 minutes were actually recorded, and it ended at the point that the picture froze initially.


I don't have an external harddrive.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I thought you'd be interested to know that this phenomenon struck me this past Sunday while recording & watching The West Wing. The picture froze but the recording light stayed on and the list reported the show as being 1 hour so we just switched to something else to let it finish. However when we came back to it we saw only about 40 minutes were actually recorded, and it ended at the point that the picture froze initially.
> 
> 
> I don't have an external harddrive.



Although I don't know exactly why this happens I have concluded that it happens more frequently to those with external hard drives then those who don't.


I have been experimenting with daily reboots to see if this helps. This wasn't something I pulled out of the air, I got it from another forum where there is a beta tester who discussed this. He said that even without his external hard drive he can make this happen if he doesn't reboot at least once a week.


ClevelandJax I know your as frustrated as I am about this. Try the weekly reboot. For me I've been doing my daily reboots for 10 days now and I have had no partial recordings. It's a bit of a pia but hey, if it works it works.


You may also be interested to know that this beta tester says this only happens during prime time on network HD shows. That's exactly how it happens on my 8300 as well.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really think that would be quite expensive and basically not possible. Talking about this on the thread "8300 and External SATA-It Works" one knowledgeable person feels this will not happen.



hookbill, I would tend to agree with you - I'm guessing the cableco would have to change/upgrade/swap out equipment at the headend to service all those customers, or run two different versions of software at the headend for a while as they transitioned the SARA users to Passport. Even if they could automagically change everyone's set top box operating system overnight, can you imagine the FLOOD of customer service calls that would come in the next day. They would be rolling trucks to people's houses from now until eternity, costing a fortune.


----------



## JJkizak

Just found out this player will play HD-WMV and m2t, ts files on standard DVD discs, Only restriction is you can only get 30 minutes on one disc. Don't know if it will play DL discs. This is great for me as I can render my HDV files to m2t and play them with standard discs. They are at B & H Photo for $379.00. JVC-SRDVD-100U.

It wiill also play mp-3, mp-4, DIVX, and can be hooked up with cat 5 or USB-2.0.

If it works, it rocks.


JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like his confidence!



I think a lot of the "changeover" speculation comes from the fact that TWC locally, in its existing systems, runs Passport instead of SARA, and that the Adelphia/Comcast systems will be merged into TWC NEO and run out of the existing TWC cluster. I don't know if in the other cases, there was already an existing TWC system with Passport that was merged into.


That being said, I'd certainly agree that if it happens at all, any such switchover isn't going to happen overnight. If it does, it may be done LONG down the road, probably a year or longer, as part of a major system overhaul that'd have been done anyway. There'd certainly be a long time that the two types of systems would co-exist, no matter what happens in the future.


I don't know much about the hardware end of cable TV, but I'd assume TWC could do stuff like channel lineup standardization without swapping out the type of DVR boxes it offers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know much about the hardware end of cable TV, but I'd assume TWC could do stuff like channel lineup standardization without swapping out the type of DVR boxes it offers.



That might not even happen. Just like when Adelphia took over whatever cable companies it took over years ago some things haven't changed within the Adelphia system, i.e. Inundated and myself both have Adelphia but do not have the same cable line ups and more importantly, the same head end. We know this is true because of times of service interruptions, guide data problems, that one has experienced (mostly me) and the other hasn't.


----------



## Ben Music

Inundated,


Out here in North Ridgeville, Comcast is listing Sportstime Ohio on

Channel 73. I-Guide shows off-air till 7pm, then a exhibition game: Toronto vs Cleveland in Winterhaven, Fla.


Ben Music


----------



## Inundated

STO has officially signed up Adelphia. Starting date is Thursday:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle 


In addition to the channels listed, STO's site has now been updated with other Adelphia systems and channels that aren't in the press release below. The release and STO site do not list an HD channel, though it probably wouldn't be a surprise to see them use 798.



> Quote:
> SportsTime Ohio and Adelphia finalize broadcast rights agreement
> 
> 03/14/2006 5:02 PM ET
> 
> MLB.com
> 
> 
> CLEVELAND -- SportsTime Ohio and Adelphia of Northern Ohio today announced that the new Indians television network will air on Adelphia beginning Thursday, March 16th with the telecast of the Spring Training Indians vs Minnesota Twins game at 8 p.m. The pre-game show will air at 7:30 pm.
> 
> 
> "We are pleased to add Adelphia to our growing list of partners and are very appreciative to their commitment to the negotiating process. From the start, they understood the importance of the Cleveland Indians to their subscribers" Liberatore said. "Their presence throughout the region will bring Tribe baseball to thousands of Indians fans. We continue to work hard to finalize our outstanding partnerships to ensure that all the Indians games and the related programming are available to the widest possible audience."
> 
> 
> "Adelphia is delighted to bring SportsTime Ohio and Indians baseball to our viewers" said Pamela Mackenzie, Area Vice President of Northern Ohio, herself an avid baseball fan. "2006 promises to be an exciting season for the Indians and these games are sure to delight local fans. This is another example of Adelphia's commitment to superior programming and customer satisfaction."
> 
> 
> Adelphia subscribers in Northern Ohio will see five spring training games, 130 in-season games during the 2006 season and other original local programming centering on the interests and passions of Northern Ohio sports fans.
> 
> 
> Adelphia customers will be able to view Cleveland Indians games on the following channels:
> 
> Cleveland and suburbs: Channel 17
> 
> Ashtabula Area: Channel 30
> 
> Lorain Area: Channel 23
> 
> Macedonia Area: Channel 97
> 
> Port Clinton Area: Channel 17
> 
> 
> SportsTime Ohio will broadcast all of the Indians home games in high definition - giving fans baseball action like never before. From the first broadcast, crisper action from 11 cameras (it was previously eight) and surround sound will help bring the baseball experience into the living rooms of fans.


----------



## jtscherne

This is good news. I recently re-signed with Adelphia for a Broadcast Basic package with local HD channels (Got it for less than 20 bucks!). Channel 17 is included in the available channels...


This will hold me over until E* adds Cleveland locals...


----------



## Inundated

Re-reading the release above, it appears for whatever reason, the STO games will be on cable channel 97 on the Macedonia-based lineup (former "Western Reserve" system)...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That might not even happen. Just like when Adelphia took over whatever cable companies it took over years ago some things haven't changed within the Adelphia system, i.e. Inundated and myself both have Adelphia but do not have the same cable line ups and more importantly, the same head end. We know this is true because of times of service interruptions, guide data problems, that one has experienced (mostly me) and the other hasn't.



Good point.


Still, my guess is that TWC WILL standardize the lineup at some point, as they have throughout their entire existing system. They'll probably take the time to rejigger your lineup out there, too.


As evidenced in the STO announcement above, Adelphia hasn't really standardized lineups. I think TWC will.


Hope you enjoy the Indians games on 97 until then.


----------



## jtscherne

Speaking of Adelphia, Howard Stern On Demand is now officially available from them, although I haven't seen an announcement. (It's an extra monthly charge for unlimited access). The Sirius shows are supposed to start on March 16th and they've been recording in high definition for the new shows, but I don't know if any of the HD programs will be available from Adelphia.


I don't know whether any VOD services include HD programming. Anyone with HBO or Showtime On Demand know?


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> 
> Still, my guess is that TWC WILL standardize the lineup at some point, as they have throughout their entire existing system. They'll probably take the time to rejigger your lineup out there, too.
> 
> 
> As evidenced in the STO announcement above, Adelphia hasn't really standardized lineups. I think TWC will.
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoy the Indians games on 97 until then.



Adelphia Macedonia never added Channel 15 (the Adelphia programming channel). Of course, the only thing worth watching on it is Les Levine and I don't know whether he's moving over to TWC after the changeover.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> 
> Still, my guess is that TWC WILL standardize the lineup at some point, as they have throughout their entire existing system. They'll probably take the time to rejigger your lineup out there, too.
> 
> 
> As evidenced in the STO announcement above, Adelphia hasn't really standardized lineups. I think TWC will.
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoy the Indians games on 97 until then.



Nope, I'm not in the Macedonia area. I'm in Cleveland Suburbs. That's the old Western Reserve not Macedonia.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope, I'm not in the Macedonia area. I'm in Cleveland Suburbs. That's the old Western Reserve not Macedonia.



Oh, I thought you had the Macedonia lineup (WVIZ on 2, etc.). Macedonia used to be Western Reserve Cablevision before Cablevision, then Adelphia, bought it. It was based there. Maybe they split off the lineup at some point.


Good news! STO is already up and running tonight on Adelphia 17 here.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia Macedonia never added Channel 15 (the Adelphia programming channel). Of course, the only thing worth watching on it is Les Levine and I don't know whether he's moving over to TWC after the changeover.



He may well move to FSN Ohio, where he'll be doing a TV/radio simulcast Indians post-game show also heard on WKNR/850. Neither of them, of course, have the game rights.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, I thought you had the Macedonia lineup (WVIZ on 2, etc.). Macedonia used to be Western Reserve Cablevision before Cablevision, then Adelphia, bought it. It was based there. Maybe they split off the lineup at some point.
> 
> 
> Good news! STO is already up and running tonight on Adelphia 17 here.



I do have WVIZ on 2. The difference is WOIO is on 4....and a few others.


----------



## hookbill

NCIS got a whopping 6 minute recording tonight.







First partial program in 10 days, once again HD, prime time.


So much for my daily reboot theory. I didn't really think it would hold up. That's the thing about the SA 8300 - just when you think you got it, it lets you down.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I noticed last night that WOIO-DT is now broadcasting program guide and the correct time of day. I think this is the first time since I got my DTV back in November. That leaves only WEAO-DT in this market not broadcasting program guide or correct time of day info. PBS4549 - any chance of getting this fixed?


----------



## hookbill

According to the thread Inundated posted regarding the Tribe Adelphia has signed on for the full 130 games.


This would negate the theory that they were only signing on for a partial season. Just makes me curious as to why?


I still think TW is pulling the strings at this point.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know whether any VOD services include HD programming. Anyone with HBO or Showtime On Demand know?



I've got HBO and unfortunately none of it that I've seen is in HD. It sure would be nice to have OnDemand content in HD, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Adelphia has had enough trouble keeping the SD OnDemand working properly and I imagine the additional bandwidth burden of HD content would cause a total system meltdown.


I've heard Cinemax OnDemand is coming soon, too..


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NCIS got a whopping 6 minute recording tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First partial program in 10 days, once again HD, prime time.
> 
> 
> So much for my daily reboot theory. I didn't really think it would hold up. That's the thing about the SA 8300 - just when you think you got it, it lets you down.



Just hang in there for a few more months, and then pick up one of these bad boys --

http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/14/hd-...-release-date/ 


6 tuners plus CableCard for HD content.


*EDIT* Plus it looks like you'll be able to use your external SATA drive with it, too.


*EDIT 2* Here's a better write up of all its features. http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html CableCard 2.0 for multistream capabilities is supposedly supported, which is amazing I didn't even think the standard had been approved yet.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, since nobody knows for sure when the TWC takeover will take place, they had no choice but to sign a full contract. The broadcast last night was nice, with no major glitches. I assume that they will use 798 for the HD games.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just hang in there for a few more months, and then pick up one of these bad boys --
> 
> http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/03/14/hd-...-release-date/
> 
> 
> 6 tuners plus CableCard for HD content.
> 
> 
> *EDIT* Plus it looks like you'll be able to use your external SATA drive with it, too.
> 
> 
> *EDIT 2* Here's a better write up of all its features. http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html CableCard 2.0 for multistream capabilities is supposedly supported, which is amazing I didn't even think the standard had been approved yet.



Yeah, I've heard about the series 3 and it's dual tuner capability. Don't know that my External HD would work with this but you can bet your behind this will work better then the SA 8300. I've got my eye on it for sure.


I think I can even get the wife to go on board with this as she is a huge TiVo fan. Mostly depends upon cost. If they keep it under 500 I can probably do it. More then that, I don't know.


----------



## kosar1985

Anyone Else Having Problems With Channel 3.1 Using An Ota


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I've heard about the series 3 and it's dual tuner capability. Don't know that my External HD would work with this but you can bet your behind this will work better then the SA 8300.



Yeah, the 6 tuner cabability is kind of a misnomer. It only can record two shows at one time while you can view a third show that was recorded. It has enough tuners to record two shows from any of the following sources: NTSC, ATSC, QAM, or Cable Card decoded sources. If I remember right only the TiVo branded SATA drive will work with the Series 3. That doesn't say people won't figure out how to hack it.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone Else Having Problems With Channel 3.1 Using An Ota



It's absolutely horrible in Middleburg Hts.


I wrote the station asking if they plan on upping the signal strength prior to the Indians coming to TV-3, but I don't expect it, especially if they're partnered with a cable company. What motivation would they have to provide better OTA for Indians.


Honestly, with them stretching most of their upconverted 4x3 to 16x9 I don't care to see it. They have by far the worst picture quality in town. Then throw in Weather Plus, and there's even less bandwidth for the full HD shows.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did I watched the first inning, then had work to do! not bad, I just will wait till time warner gets a full time 24 hour channel up and not use the local one, I will pass judgement there, but there were no hiccups as I was watching, and the tribe won, so...good channel so far



Expect major hiccups when they come to their first home show.


The studio STO's using out of WKYC for Tribe games is in shambles, and they've cheaped out on all of the equipment.


As for the 20 KYC games, you have to remember this is coming from the only station in town that stretches their upconverted 4x3 analog programming to 16x9, so I don't think they really care about quality.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Then throw in Weather Plus, and there's even less bandwidth for the full HD shows.



I would not sweat one subchannel going along for the ride. IIIRC one HD channel does not use the full bandwidth available. There is not enough for 2 HD feeds but there is plenty of bandwidth for one HD and one SD.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, the 6 tuner cabability is kind of a misnomer. It only can record two shows at one time while you can view a third show that was recorded. It has enough tuners to record two shows from any of the following sources: NTSC, ATSC, QAM, or Cable Card decoded sources. If I remember right only the TiVo branded SATA drive will work with the Series 3. That doesn't say people won't figure out how to hack it.



I don't know that I'd call it a misnomer.. I mean it does, in actuality, have 6 tuners. True you're limited to recording from 2 at any time, but the fact remains that there are 6 tuners which is an impressive engineering feat that speaks to the quality of the backplane bus, firmware and software.


I thought I read somewhere that they would be using standard Maxtor ESATA drives, but can't find the source again so maybe I just made it up in my overexcitement that this thing isn't just vaporware. That would be a real shame if they locked it to their own drives but I suppose understandable from a business perspective. Tivo's always been very hacker friendly though, so hopefully they'll remain so and as you say, it'll probably be cracked quickly.


*EDIT* Ah, found that source I was thinking of.. This guy was talking to the people in the Tivo booth at CES'06 and asked them about the ESATA. They said they "hope" to allow users to use any SATA drive that meets some minimum requirements. Of course, as always, we never really know until it's here etc etc etc..


----------



## Inundated

I hate to rain on the Dump on WKYC Parade, but...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wrote the station asking if they plan on upping the signal strength prior to the Indians coming to TV-3, but I don't expect it, especially if they're partnered with a cable company. What motivation would they have to provide better OTA for Indians.



You're missing the point.


1) WKYC's signal strength has nothing to do with the Indians games. And WKYC certainly can't go "well, darn, the Indians are starting in a couple of weeks, we'd better up the power!" Any facilities changes have to be filed with the FCC, have a construction permit approved, and such, and that takes months to YEARS. Just ask WBNX!


2) The biggest problem with WKYC's digital signal is not strength. It's the fact that it sits on DT channel 2, which is even worse for electrical interference, noise and out-of-town skip than even their analog channel 3. WKYC will abandon DT 2 at the analog shutoff (4/2009) for DT 17, which will become available when WDLI/Canton abandons analog 17 for their current digital channel of 39.


There is really not much they can do about this before then. It's not like they're sitting there and saying "gee, we don't want to make our over-air digital signal any easier because we're together with Time Warner in the STO deal!".


There are so many issues here, and the fact that WKYC is now the over-air Indians home has NOTHING to do with them, and can't even remotely affect those issues.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honestly, with them stretching most of their upconverted 4x3 to 16x9 I don't care to see it. They have by far the worst picture quality in town. Then throw in Weather Plus, and there's even less bandwidth for the full HD shows.



I am not a fan of stretch-o-vision, I'll have to agree with you there. But at least WKYC didn't do what WEWS did until recently - stretch to that insane almost-quasi 14x9! At least my tuners can squash WKYC's 16x9 stretch down to 4x3, and it looks reasonably well. And WKYC's digital SD certainly beats the living daylights out of WOIO "Contrast Set To 11 On Aging Analog Equipment" 19. The ONLY time WOIO-DT looks good is during CBS HD programming.


As far as Weather Plus and WKYC-DT - do you honestly think that is going to affect the Indians games? 90% of baseball is low action. I did notice some macroblocking during very fast Winter Olympic action with bright colors, but I don't know how much of that was the subchannel and how much of that was motion in the 1080i standard.


----------



## hookbill

I'd like for somone to explain to me why WKYC Dolby 5.1 volume is so much lower then WJW.


Or is this my equipment? I'd list equipmen but trying to keep typing down. Bird bit finger yesterday. 4 stitches.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone Else Having Problems With Channel 3.1 Using An Ota



Problems with WKYC-DT OTA? Never!










Actually, Inundated does a good job of explaining WKYC-DTs predicament a couple of posts back.


Where are you located? What kind of antenna are you using?


Here in North Canton, I have an outdoor antenna on a 30-foot mast with a preamp on the signal line after it drops into the attic. I will get solid reception on WKYC-DT for a week or so at a time, and then it will disappear for a week or two. Reception chance is usually better at night. It is really hit or miss.


If you have the ability to point your antenna toward Youngstown and you are close enough, WFMJ-DT 20 puts out a very strong signal. I can pick it up with an indoor antenna sitting by a north-facing window. YMMV.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Anybody know what WOIO-DT is planning to do with the NCAA tourney broadcasts? Will they multicast more than one game or will they stick with the single HD stream? What did they do last year?


I have mixed feelings about this. In one way, I would like to be able to keep tabs on multiple games going at the same time. But on the other hand, sports just looks so great in HD!


Maybe as a compromise, they could do multicast for the first round and then go back to single HD stream for the remaining rounds. Anybody from WOIO listening?


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Problems with WKYC-DT OTA? Never!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Inundated does a good job of explaining WKYC-DTs predicament a couple of posts back.
> 
> 
> Where are you located? What kind of antenna are you using?
> 
> 
> Here in North Canton, I have an outdoor antenna on a 30-foot mast with a preamp on the signal line after it drops into the attic. I will get solid reception on WKYC-DT for a week or so at a time, and then it will disappear for a week or two. Reception chance is usually better at night. It is really hit or miss.
> 
> 
> If you have the ability to point your antenna toward Youngstown and you are close enough, WFMJ-DT 20 puts out a very strong signal. I can pick it up with an indoor antenna sitting by a north-facing window. YMMV.



I live in Medina. I have my antenna on top of my roof. I live in a condo with a flat roof top with no trees in the way. I get on average about 88%, so it really makes me mad. Actually what makes me angrier is that we need an antenna, CMON D* HURRY UP!!!!!!1


----------



## hookbill

Has anyone in Adelphia land seen the Tribe in the listings yet? All I see on channel 17 is "Adelphia Community Channel". The first game is supposed to be telecast tonight. In addition no announcement page.


I wonder if they are going to pull it off in time? Nothing 798 either.


----------



## jtscherne

None of the spring training games are in HD so 798 won't show anything until April.


They turned Tuesday's game on right after the announcement, so I know they're able to show it, but the guide listing didn't change.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody know what WOIO-DT is planning to do with the NCAA tourney broadcasts? Will they multicast more than one game or will they stick with the single HD stream? What did they do last year?
> 
> 
> I have mixed feelings about this. In one way, I would like to be able to keep tabs on multiple games going at the same time. But on the other hand, sports just looks so great in HD!
> 
> 
> Maybe as a compromise, they could do multicast for the first round and then go back to single HD stream for the remaining rounds. Anybody from WOIO listening?



I emailed them about multicasting either last year or the year before. Their response was that they did not have the necessary equipment to allow them to multicast and they had no plans to acquire it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I emailed them about multicasting either last year or the year before. Their response was that they did not have the necessary equipment to allow them to multicast and they had no plans to acquire it.



WOIO (Raycom) is something else. They should change the call letters to WCHP (W-CHEAP).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know that I'd call it a misnomer.. I mean it does, in actuality, have 6 tuners. True you're limited to recording from 2 at any time, but the fact remains that there are 6 tuners which is an impressive engineering feat that speaks to the quality of the backplane bus, firmware and software.



The problem with telling people that it has 6 tuners (which I agree it does) is that they will assume that it can record 6 things at a time. Since people are very familar with "dual tuner" DVRs a 6 tuner DVR sounds even better, but they wouldn't be getting what they're expecting. That's why you can't simply say "it has 6 tuners" without saying "to record two shows at a time."


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I cant believe that people actually want multicasting to degredate the picture quality. Thats crazy talk on this forum.


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed last night that WOIO-DT is now broadcasting program guide and the correct time of day. I think this is the first time since I got my DTV back in November. That leaves only WEAO-DT in this market not broadcasting program guide or correct time of day info. PBS4549 - any chance of getting this fixed?



We've had talks this morning about the time issue. Internally we have the correct time being inserted into the digital stream. We're unsure at which point it is being altered/stripped. There's about 4 different points we need to look at and we'll do that as quickly as we can.

As for the program information, we have static PSIP, which means we are properly identifying our stations. Dynamic PSIP, allowing us to insert program related information, will begin when the recently ordered equipment is delivered and installed. That could be up to 6 months.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I cant believe that people actually want multicasting to degredate the picture quality. Thats crazy talk on this forum.



It is not crazy talk in this situation. Typically what other CBS affiliates did in the past was to multicast 3 or 4 SD NCAA games when there was no HD game being broadcast. When there was an HD game, they would show it and no more than 1 multicast SD game. It was a good use of the technology to give the viewer the maximum number of viewing options. In essence, it was a special implementation put in place just for the NCAA tournament. You were no longer at the mercy of the local affiliate as to which one of several games they chose to broadcast. I would love to see it done. Our only possibility locally though will be WKBN in Youngstown for next year. They obviously have the capability since they are currently planning to multicast an SD Fox channel.


----------



## HDTD

I recall last year Adelphia had a different game on CBS' feeds. Was it one game on Ch4 and an HD game on 704? Wonder if they can make use of 804?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I recall last year Adelphia had a different game on CBS' feeds. Was it one game on Ch4 and an HD game on 704? Wonder if they can make use of 804?



Don't think so. 804 is ch 4. If you hook up without a box what you see is 804. When you hook up with a box you see digital WOIO on 4.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I cant believe that people actually want multicasting to degredate the picture quality. Thats crazy talk on this forum.



I DID say I had mixed feelings about it!










Anyway, the point is moot here since WOIO does not have the capability to multicast.


I did find this on their website:

http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=menu68_6 


So, it appears that they are doing the next best thing - all HD games on their digital channel, and "games of regional importance" (my interpretation) on the analog channel. In some cases, the digital and the analog will be the same (e.g. for the Pitt - KSU game on Friday).


I am kind of bummed that the Buckeyes game will only be on the analog channel.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We've had talks this morning about the time issue. Internally we have the correct time being inserted into the digital stream. We're unsure at which point it is being altered/stripped. There's about 4 different points we need to look at and we'll do that as quickly as we can.



Thanks for the update. The time is no biggie, just kind of jarring when I see it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As for the program information, we have static PSIP, which means we are properly identifying our stations. Dynamic PSIP, allowing us to insert program related information, will begin when the recently ordered equipment is delivered and installed. That could be up to 6 months.



Good to hear that you plan to add the program info! I hope that equipment is not the same equipment that will bring us the HD feed. As I recall, the HD problem was a software issue?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am kind of bummed that the Buckeyes game will only be on the analog channel.



Yeah, we always get screwed because we are still the minority, not the masses.


There ought to be a law.....


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did find this on their website:
> 
> http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=menu68_6



Thanks for the link. Looks like they(WOIO) did good on Thursday and are showing all the HD games from Greensboro. On Friday though, the only HD game they have listed from the other HD site(Philly) is Kentucky/UAB. That means we don't get to see the UConn(one of the highest ranked teams in the country) game. This makes no sense showing the Kent State game on both channels. Hopefully they will get a clue before Friday.


----------



## mrblond128

Hey guys, this may not be the exact forum for this, but I'm looking for some local help/input.


Just had my HD DirecTV install last week. Everything is working great, but it was the free installation that came with the new service. Needless to say, they really butchered the wiring. I have exposed wires running everywhere. They say they can't fish the wires to where they need to be. I'm looking for an experienced installer. Can anyone provide a reference. Doesn't necessarily need to be a DirecTV installer, but an experienced AV installer. I don't mind paying for the job to be done to my satisfaction. I live on the west side (Avon Lake). TIA


----------



## brh-z2

Just a note regarding the Adelphia line-up in Macedonia. Although STO's web site lists channel 97, last nights Indians game was on channel 71. Rough way for a start to the new network for us 12-5, ouch.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rough way for a start to the new network for us 12-5, ouch.



I'd rather they lose ALL of the spring training games and start winning on opening day! It seems when they have a winning ST season, they lose most of their games in April...


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrblond128* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys, this may not be the exact forum for this, but I'm looking for some local help/input.
> 
> 
> Just had my HD DirecTV install last week. Everything is working great, but it was the free installation that came with the new service. Needless to say, they really butchered the wiring. I have exposed wires running everywhere. They say they can't fish the wires to where they need to be. I'm looking for an experienced installer. Can anyone provide a reference. Doesn't necessarily need to be a DirecTV installer, but an experienced AV installer. I don't mind paying for the job to be done to my satisfaction. I live on the west side (Avon Lake). TIA



Here is the answer to your prayers:

Call Jim WEst at Cleveland Antenna 440-237-6888

Use my name. I have referred many people to him and all have been made happy.

He will send his son Joel to you

He will fix your problems!!!


----------



## gass

Typical "free" install. My dad got his FREE install from TWC on his DVR. Those little morons actually took a cable from his center channel audio on his DVD player to "complete" the installation!!


----------



## DaMavs

Anyone else having trouble with WEWS (5-1) tonight? When I'm getting a picture OTA it's constant breakups. My HD-Tivo managed around 3 minutes of Desperate Housewives and about the same on Grey's Anatomy.


So is WEWS having another go round of problems? Or is it just me tonight?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else having trouble with WEWS (5-1) tonight? When I'm getting a picture OTA it's constant breakups. My HD-Tivo managed around 3 minutes of Desperate Housewives and about the same on Grey's Anatomy.
> 
> 
> So is WEWS having another go round of problems? Or is it just me tonight?



Receiving through Adelphia on my SA 8300 both shows fully recorded. I noticed that DH was a repeat before I went to bed so I deleted it without watching, but there were no recording problems.


----------



## gass

Likewise: in fact my OTA of 5-1 was unusally stable - very good last night.


----------



## DaMavs

Thanks for the feedback guys - not what I wanted to hear, but good to know.


After posting, I checked my signal meter and it was bouncing all over, but always very low. Oscillating from 0 to the 20s then 0 then 40s with a peak in the 40s. Basically the worst I've ever had on 5-1.


My current thought is I'm prone to some multipath interference on 5-1 w/certain weather/atmospheric conditions. Seem plausible to anyone? Guess I'll need to try adjusting my antenna to see if I can nip it in the bud. Joy...


Thanks for the quick feedback on 5-1 for last night...


----------



## lefkas

Does anyone know when WKBN-Channel 27 (CBS) in Youngstown will start broadcasting HD programming ? I live in North Canton and cannot get Channel 19-WOIO in Cleveland OTA, but I can get Channel 21 out of Youngstown with an amplified rabbit ears for the NBC programming.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know when WKBN-Channel 27 (CBS) in Youngstown will start broadcasting HD programming ? I live in North Canton and cannot get Channel 19-WOIO in Cleveland OTA, but I can get Channel 21 out of Youngstown with an amplified rabbit ears for the NBC programming.




Check out the Youngstown, Ohio thread:

Youngstown, Ohio OTA


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback guys - not what I wanted to hear, but good to know.
> 
> 
> My current thought is I'm prone to some multipath interference on 5-1 w/certain weather/atmospheric conditions. Seem plausible to anyone? Guess I'll need to try adjusting my antenna to see if I can nip it in the bud. Joy...



I think that you're on the right track as I have a similar issue with 5-1 which requires two main positions/orientations for my indoor antenna. The first pulls in 3, 5, 8, 19, 43, and 61 the vast majority of the time. The second is for when 5-1 is acting up (about a week or so every month - including the past few days) although then 3, 19, and 43 are shaky. My problem started right around the first of the year, which I think was when they upped the power of their transmitter.


----------



## rlockshin

19-1 down on OTA?

Anyone else notice it?


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Check out the Youngstown, Ohio thread:



Thanks. WKBN-27 reports that it is on-track to begin broadcasting in digital and HD on May 1, 2006. Good news for those of us in Stark County that have trouble picking up the CBS programming on WOIO-19 via OTA.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. WKBN-27 reports that it is on-track to begin broadcasting in digital and HD on May 1, 2006. Good news for those of us in Stark County that have trouble picking up the CBS programming on WOIO-19 via OTA.



This is good news not only for Stark county, but to good portion of the southeasten side of the Cleveland DMA. The coverage map from the FCC shows WKBN-DT reaching as far west as Stronsville and Medina! It even covers the City of Cleveland proper out into Lake Erie and the other side of the signal reaches all the way to Pittsburgh! The other two Youngstown stations barely make it to Bainbridge (actually WYTV is not even that good, while WFMJ touches parts of Solon).


WKBN: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html 


WFMJ: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT421700.html 


WYTV: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT422166.html


----------



## salemtubes

The WKBN-DT antenna is 406 meters (1332 feet) above ground level; hence, the signal will travel farther than most stations.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 19-1 down on OTA?
> 
> Anyone else notice it?



...noticed it here too. It came back on later in SD but looks like it's fixed now.


cheers.


----------



## ameanz

I can't wait to get mine


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know when WKBN-Channel 27 (CBS) in Youngstown will start broadcasting HD programming ? I live in North Canton and cannot get Channel 19-WOIO in Cleveland OTA, but I can get Channel 21 out of Youngstown with an amplified rabbit ears for the NBC programming.



Are you using the rabbit ears to try and get WOIO-DT? Make sure you have them fully extended. You are probably asking for a lot from mere rabbit ears, though. WOIO-DT has a fairly weak signal - I think 3.5 kW according to the FCC website. Even WKYC-DT puts out 8 kW.


I normally do not have any problem receiving WOIO-DT with my outdoor 30' antenna. I did notice that their signal seemed weaker than usual this weekend (ocassional macroblocking and dropouts during the NCAA tourney games), which may explain the problems that others were seeing. Earlier this evening, their signal seems to have returned to normal.


----------



## Inundated

Back in town...


WOIO-DT is usually my hardest-to-receive signal after the infamous WKYC-DT. But I can usually find a place to get it even on my indoor antenna, which is usually impossible for WKYC.


Of course, most of my HD watching is Adelphia QAM (with my Fusion tuner downstairs), so I haven't really done the loop of the OTA stations.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you using the rabbit ears to try and get WOIO-DT? Make sure you have them fully extended.



Wrong. For physical channel 10 (which is what 19.1 is actually broadcasting on), the rabbit ears should be only about 1/3 extended. Full extension would be for channel 2/3. They should also be horizontal, not "V" shaped for the best pickup.


----------



## lefkas

Several people have told me that a solid OTA signal results in the best hi-def picture beacuse it comes direct from the station tower while the cable and satellite signal is diluted. On the other hand, setting up a rooftop antenna is a hassle. Any thoughts on this out there ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Several people have told me that a solid OTA signal results in the best hi-def picture beacuse it comes direct from the station tower while the cable and satellite signal is diluted. On the other hand, setting up a rooftop antenna is a hassle. Any thoughts on this out there ?



I kind of think several things enter into play on this. It would make sense that a solid OTA signal would be best, but I don't know how much difference you would actually be able to see unless you had a trained eye. Also from what I've read aquiring a "solid" OTA signal depends on so many things, location from tower, trees, weather conditions, elevation. Also it would depend on the type of HD set you have. Certainly with my CRT Sony Wega I wouldn't see much difference from OTA and cable.


I'm pretty sure that cable offers the best of both worlds because generally cable seems to be "locked" into that solid signal better then an OTA antenna at home could be. In addition with OTA only you get only what's available. No premium channels. There has been many people pleading for PBS on OTA but that's not a problem for cable subscribers.


On the other hand we do not get UPS, or WB. Since I watch two shows on those networks they are not that important to me. Anyway they will be replaced soon and WB isn't available in HD in our area.


Just my thoughts. My opinions.


Please remember however, that I'm always right.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wrong. For physical channel 10 (which is what 19.1 is actually broadcasting on), the rabbit ears should be only about 1/3 extended. Full extension would be for channel 2/3. They should also be horizontal, not "V" shaped for the best pickup.



It's the OTA paradox. How to pick up WKYC _and_ WOIO at the same time. I actually had it working where I got all the stations. But now WOIO isn't coming in usually and the ABC affiliate is on and off. I actually can get WKYC unlike my Akron bretheren. And a rather solid lock as well.


This is a pain. I don't want to venture into the attic and lose WKYC to gain WOIO, but football will start back up and no CBS. Oh the humanity! My main solution would be to get an antenna for the outdoors. Which is probably how I'll fix this problem. I just wish these main channels were all UHF like some areas.


----------



## Too_Many_options

[What's the best picture]

Cable (Adelphia) provides a clear Hd picture from Cleveland broadcast stations.

I would be surprised to see as consistent quality from an antenna.

I have not seen picture degradation due to weather either.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [What's the best picture]
> 
> Cable (Adelphia) provides a clear Hd picture from Cleveland broadcast stations.
> 
> I would be surprised to see as consistent quality from an antenna.
> 
> I have not seen picture degradation due to weather either.



I have both and I do see a slight difference between the two but I have a pretty well trained eye & have had HD for over 5 years. I'm positive that the vast majority of people wouldn't see any difference. Keep in mind, there isn't really picture degradation in the normal sense...the picture either comes in or it doesn't, although sometimes it can freeze up and/or get blocks. The actually PQ remains the same. I can see the most difference when watching OTA outdoor sports. I see just a tad more shadow detail and light reflections and what I can only describe as 'life' in the picture via OTA. If I wasn't able to compare on the same set going back & forth it would be hard to tell. Now, if I throw in the fact that I often can't get NBC or CBS & have to run outside in the cold and move my antenna an inch to the left in order to fix the problem, OTA becomes far more of a pain in the rear end. Then mix in the occasional drop-out even with good signal strength (which my wife HATES) and now cable is sounding quite a bit better. So, in the end, if I have the worlds best OTA antenna & could put it on my roof with a rotor and that eliminated all drop-outs, I think it's a tad better as far as pure picture quality. But, a tad better unfortunately is way to problematic at this point and cable is basically hassle free comparativly. But if you are talking pure PQ, I think OTA does win just by the tinyest of margins.


Since I built my home theater this December, I had moved my HD STB from Adelphia into the basement & into the theater. Since then, I've been doing only OTA upstairs on my Sony HDTV. After 2 months, I gotta tell ya, I'm gonna spend the extra $10 a month & get another Adelphia box. It's becoming a pain & nothing is worse than having the channel drop out right at a critical moment during a show. (not to mention not having the option to DVR HD upstairs). I had forgotten what a pain it was for me pre-Adelphia HD. I'll still watch OTA locals, but if they aren't coming in, I'll have the Adelphia box to flip to instead of venturing outside in the cold at 10:00 PM to move the antenna!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the other hand we do not get UPS, or WB.



Maybe WUAB would be better off hooking up with UPS - they'd sure deliver!


(Umm, where's my rimshot?







)


It does seem likely that we'll have The CW in HD in some form from WBNX before the network starts. If they don't get their DT channel up by the July deadline, they'll probably feed HD to cable.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's the OTA paradox. How to pick up WKYC _and_ WOIO at the same time. I actually had it working where I got all the stations. But now WOIO isn't coming in usually and the ABC affiliate is on and off. I actually can get WKYC unlike my Akron bretheren. And a rather solid lock as well.
> 
> 
> This is a pain. I don't want to venture into the attic and lose WKYC to gain WOIO, but football will start back up and no CBS. Oh the humanity! My main solution would be to get an antenna for the outdoors. Which is probably how I'll fix this problem. I just wish these main channels were all UHF like some areas.



I find it odd that you can't get both VHF DT's at the same time. The WKYC and WOIO towers are next to each other. What you need is a good VHF-only antenna aimed squarely at the northeast corner of the Parma antennafarm (roughly the intersection of Ridgewood Dr. and Broadview Rd.) and a seperate UHF only antenna aimed squarely at WEWS (State Rd. north of Pleasant Valley Rd.). If the beam width of your UHF antenna is wide enough you will have no problems with any of the UHF DT signals currently on the air (with the exception of WVIZ). WEWS is between WJW and WUAB along State Rd.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe WUAB would be better off hooking up with UPS - they'd sure deliver!
> 
> 
> (Umm, where's my rimshot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> It does seem likely that we'll have The CW in HD in some form from WBNX before the network starts. If they don't get their DT channel up by the July deadline, they'll probably feed HD to cable.



Hey, easy there pal. I'm typing with 4 stitches in my middle finger.


See it?


----------



## Inundated

SportsTime Ohio has signed up Cox and Comcast. No word on any deal with DirecTV, WOW or Armstrong Cable yet.


Of the two newest systems, only Cox has already listed an HD channel for STO.


----------



## jtscherne

FYI, Dish Network is currently testing SportsTime Ohio, although it isn't available for public, nor has an agreement been announced. However, since they're testing, maybe things are close:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=55164


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [What's the best picture]
> 
> Cable (Adelphia) provides a clear Hd picture from Cleveland broadcast stations.
> 
> I would be surprised to see as consistent quality from an antenna.
> 
> I have not seen picture degradation due to weather either.



Real issue that can make OTA better is compression. Full broadcast spectrum is something like 19.4 mb/sec. DirecTV typically reduces that to around 14-16 mb/sec. Many have measured and found that some cable companies also compress. That is the reason (more bits equals more information equals more detail/better picture) that in many cases the same program looks better OTA than via satellite or cable.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, Dish Network is currently testing SportsTime Ohio, although it isn't available for public, nor has an agreement been announced. However, since they're testing, maybe things are close:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=55164



A cautious Woo Hoo! for the Wahoos from this E* sub










Thanks for the heads up JT!


----------



## jtscherne

Here's the Cox/Comcast SportsTime Ohio News Release:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/p...=.jsp&c_id=cle


----------



## TV21CHIEF

I finished my surround equipment install today. I waited until I was sure it worked before I posted.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finished my surround equipment install today. I waited until I was sure it worked before I posted.



Excellent news! Keep up the good work.


BTW, I switched on WFMJ-DT at about 10:40 last night and noticed whatever was on (don't remember the name) was being shown with black borders all the way around the screen (picture was not filling the entire screen). Any idea what was going on?


----------



## hookbill

I've got a choice. Either I can disconnect my external hard drive so I can watch HD television and only miss an occasional show, or I can keep it and stop watching HD.


Last night my 8300 failed to record 4 shows. Law & Order, Criminal Minds (well it got 2 minutes of that, but that's a failure as far as I'm concerned) Heist and CSI:NY.


When I look at the "to be recorded" screen it shows all these shows scheduled on

3/29. That means it had to have made an attempt at recording these shows, otherwise it would still have the 3/22 date next to them.


I tuned in the last few minutes of "Criminal Minds" before I shut the equipment off. The SA 8300 said "recording".










I'm mostly ranting at this point. Not much I can do about it. I know it's going to happen once and a while even if I disconnect the external hard drive. What a pos.


That Series 3 TiVo can't get here soon enough.


----------



## Telosian

I found the OTA v.s. Cable PQ discussion interesting and agree with what was said. I am on Adelphia HD and get good OTA but less (hardly any) dropouts on cable, not to mention the DVR issues addressed by Dweezilz (And by the way I always agree with the Proud Flock Owner since he IS always right and when he's not he gets bit pretty darn quick around here.) My question is, has anyone done a side by side comparison of PQ between available Satellite HD and Adelphia (soon to be TimeWarner) cable? I was told cable generally provides less of the compression mentioned by rlb, but I have no clue about the veracity of this and especially lately with the advent of MPEG 4 and perhaps other compression schemes in the satellite world. Bottom line is I want the best PQ I can get


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excellent news! Keep up the good work.
> 
> 
> BTW, I switched on WFMJ-DT at about 10:40 last night and noticed whatever was on (don't remember the name) was being shown with black borders all the way around the screen (picture was not filling the entire screen). Any idea what was going on?



At this point I believe it was an NBC issue. They came back from a commercial break to full screen black with the NBC bug. After about 30 seconds it went to SD, but we didn't throw the switch. Check out this link in the programming thread. Heist Link . They're running an encore presentation Friday night. Maybe they'll have it fixed by then.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My question is, has anyone done a side by side comparison of PQ between available Satellite HD and Adelphia (soon to be TimeWarner) cable? Bottom line is I want the best PQ I can get



You're going to be hard pressed to find someone that has HD cable and HD satellite running on the same display to do a real comparison. The bottom line is satellite has to compress their video more than cable currently does. Satellite hasn't yet moved all of their channels to MPEG4 (locals are MP4 while everything else isn't) which means the major channels will still be compressed more than cable. I have heard several times that if you must choose satellite then E* is the way to go.


My understanding of the rankings:

OTA

Cable

E*

D*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At this point I believe it was an NBC issue. They came back from a commercial break to full screen black with the NBC bug. After about 30 seconds it went to SD, but we didn't throw the switch. Check out this link in the programming thread. Heist Link . They're running an encore presentation Friday night. Maybe they'll have it fixed by then.




Well, that probably explains why I had a recording failure on both Law & Order and Heist on my 8300. Doesn't explain why I had a failure with CBS of course.


Further rant: I screwed up on my DVD recordings of Lost and whatever new show followed that. I didn't allow enough disk space, not the equipments fault.


Not a good night for recording for me.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, that probably explains why I had a recording failure on both Law & Order and Heist on my 8300. Doesn't explain why I had a failure with CBS of course.
> 
> 
> Further rant: I screwed up on my DVD recordings of Lost and whatever new show followed that. I didn't allow enough disk space, not the equipments fault.
> 
> 
> Not a good night for recording for me.




NBC's problem wouldn't have affected your recordings. Law & Order was perfect technically and the switch to SD on Heist didn't make the bitstream breakup.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NBC's problem wouldn't have affected your recordings. Law & Order was perfect technically and the switch to SD on Heist didn't make the bitstream breakup.



I realized that after I actually clicked on the link you posted. Well, I'm moving everything off my external hard drive to DVD now and I'm going to disconnect it. Hopefully when TiVo Series 3 rolls around I'll be able to use it somehow.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I found the OTA v.s. Cable PQ discussion interesting and agree with what was said. I am on Adelphia HD and get good OTA but less (hardly any) dropouts on cable, not to mention the DVR issues addressed by Dweezilz (And by the way I always agree with the Proud Flock Owner since he IS always right and when he's not he gets bit pretty darn quick around here.) My question is, has anyone done a side by side comparison of PQ between available Satellite HD and Adelphia (soon to be TimeWarner) cable? I was told cable generally provides less of the compression mentioned by rlb, but I have no clue about the veracity of this and especially lately with the advent of MPEG 4 and perhaps other compression schemes in the satellite world. Bottom line is I want the best PQ I can get




I certainly agree that cable has a good picture and is far more convenient than putting up an antenna. On the other hand, for those of us who can get by with just major network programming, $0 per month beats $80 per month all the time.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're going to be hard pressed to find someone that has HD cable and HD satellite running on the same display to do a real comparison. The bottom line is satellite has to compress their video more than cable currently does. Satellite hasn't yet moved all of their channels to MPEG4 (locals are MP4 while everything else isn't) which means the major channels will still be compressed more than cable. I have heard several times that if you must choose satellite then E* is the way to go.
> 
> 
> My understanding of the rankings:
> 
> OTA
> 
> Cable
> 
> E*
> 
> D*



Actually not as hard pressed as you'd think; I do have this exact scenario.










I have had Dish Network's HD package for 5 years or so (since they first started HD). I was grandfathered in at only $8 a month without any other programming. They don't allow this anymore without full programming so I haven't cancelled. For about $15 total (including tax & fees), it's worth hanging on to for now (if only for the Voom channels and TNT-HD). Mostly because of the hassle of OTA, DVR for HD and also to get PBS and INHD1, INHD2, I also got the Adelphia HD package for $5.


From what I've heard many times, Dish does indeed compress more than cable, but how it relates to real world PQ differences is another story. I do direct comparisons all the time between HDnet, ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD & the locals ota. For the actual HD networks, I'd have to say on my Sony 51" HDTV, while I might be able to see some slight difference at times, I'd be hard pressed to say that Adelphia's cable was the clear winner in PQ. It's just too close to call & most people wouldn't notice at all. To me they look almost identical going back & forth, however if there's any difference, I'd say that Adelphia's colors seems to be just a tad more saturated overall. Nobody would be able to tell the difference without being able to flip back & forth like I can do however, so at this point, I'd have to say advatage goes to...neither, as far as a noticable PQ difference with the HD networks.


----------



## HDTD

Does anyone know locally if you can pick up the HD stations from Adelphia simply by plugging in the cable to an HD tuner (not needing a box to get the 700-series channels then component out to the monitor). Basically, the cable line acts as if it's a big antenna.


Insight cable in Columbus, if you plug the cable into your HDTV tuner you get the OTA signal, bypassing the cable box and compression. I don't know if they remodulate the signals down the line or what, but it's great.

Any thoughts?


----------



## hdtv4prs

Recently I upgraded my 25 yr. old RS 160" vhf/uhf antenna on a 30' tower/w rotor. I live about 45 miles south of the Parma Farm (Massillon). With the old set-up I was getting frequent drop-offs and pixelation. With the following upgrade, I get all the HD stations with no drop-offs or pixelation.

CM 4228 UHF

Wade VIP-306 VHF

CM titan 7777 pre-amp

CM 9421A Rotor/controller

All new RG-6 coax/rotor wiring


The only oddity is Channel 8.1 HD which comes in at 31.3 ??


Attached are some pics


----------



## Dweezilz

No doubt with that sucker, anything will come in! ha! I think the development we live in would lock me up & throw away the key if I put that up. It's very cool though! That's strange that Fox would come in on 31.3! It should be 31.1.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually not as hard pressed as you'd think; I do have this exact scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have had Dish Network's HD package for 5 years or so (since they first started HD). I was grandfathered in at only $8 a month without any other programming. They don't allow this anymore without full programming so I haven't cancelled. For about $15 total (including tax & fees), it's worth hanging on to for now (if only for the Voom channels and TNT-HD). Mostly because of the hassle of OTA, DVR for HD and also to get PBS and INHD1, INHD2, I also got the Adelphia HD package for $5.
> 
> 
> From what I've heard many times, Dish does indeed compress more than cable, but how it relates to real world PQ differences is another story. I do direct comparisons all the time between HDnet, ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD & the locals ota. For the actual HD networks, I'd have to say on my Sony 51" HDTV, while I might be able to see some slight difference at times, I'd be hard pressed to say that Adelphia's cable was the clear winner in PQ. It's just too close to call & most people wouldn't notice at all. To me they look almost identical going back & forth, however if there's any difference, I'd say that Adelphia's colors seems to be just a tad more saturated overall. Nobody would be able to tell the difference without being able to flip back & forth like I can do however, so at this point, I'd have to say advatage goes to...neither, as far as a noticable PQ difference with the HD networks.



Winner would definitely be cable if all I cared about was HD (other than the fact that I have an antenna for HD locals); however if you watch any SD (e.g., Fox News, or CNN) digital SD from D* beats the hell out of analog SD from most cable companies. That difference is significantly more than the difference between HD sources. That's why I use both D* and OTA. Not to mention that the HD Tivo works with only those two sources.


----------



## hdtv4prs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No doubt with that sucker, anything will come in! ha! I think the development we live in would lock me up & throw away the key if I put that up. It's very cool though! That's strange that Fox would come in on 31.3! It should be 31.1.



I don't know why my Sony 42"A10 HD TV tuner locks the signal at 31.3 but whatever direction I rotate my antenna at, channel 8 HD only comes in at that channel setting. I also have tried numerous times to try to lock at 8.1 HD but no luck. Channel 8 HD comes in at the best resolution over any other station. Go figure??


----------



## HDTD

I read that Seinfeld is going Syndicated HD on March 27, 2006, and called WJW to see if they'll be able to broadcast Seinfeld re-runs in HD. I spoke with a nice guy in Operations Engineering that said as of now the station has no way of downlinking it in HD whether it's satellite, fiber or a file. Then if they could get it they have no way recording it to their server in HD. Right now their server is SD only, but he does expect to have the ability in the next six months to a year.


I've wrote the station several times on it, and encourage any support.


----------



## hookbill

My bet is you'll see it on HDnet or INHD.


----------



## Telosian

Thanks for the information on PQ everyone! It all makes sense to me (except for Hookbill's ext. drive problem, I have one as well and it works just fine and I don't want to jinx it by saying so). I so agree Adelphia SD is terrible, made all the worse I think by my Sony 955XS. I tried to do a setting for SD on one of the other video inputs but I did not really get very far with that experiment because I could not figure out how to output more than one video source from the SD 8300 besides the VCR record which we all know looks terrible. The HD looks so good I am loathe to watch the SD stuff anyway. Has anyone had good luck running one monitor setup for HD and another for SD? Thanks again (esp to Dweezilz) for the good info, I'm not surprized the satellite and cable looked pretty much the same.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtv4prs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know why my Sony 42"A10 HD TV tuner locks the signal at 31.3 but whatever direction I rotate my antenna at, channel 8 HD only comes in at that channel setting. I also have tried numerous times to try to lock at 8.1 HD but no luck. Channel 8 HD comes in at the best resolution over any other station. Go figure??



Aiming your antenna differently will do nothing to change the PSIP data on WJW. The problem is on WJW's end. Oddly, it affects some ASTC receivers and not others. My E* 921 reads 008-01 for WJW all the time. I did have problems last year with WUAB, which went blank on 043-01. A rescan put it on 028-01, this lasted for a short time and then 043-01 returned "on channel".


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I read that Seinfeld is going Syndicated HD on March 27, 2006, and called WJW to see if they'll be able to broadcast Seinfeld re-runs in HD. I spoke with a nice guy in Operations Engineering that said as of now the station has no way of downlinking it in HD whether it's satellite, fiber or a file. Then if they could get it they have no way recording it to their server in HD. Right now their server is SD only, but he does expect to have the ability in the next six months to a year.



It'll eventually happen.


Someone on here quoted an article from a broadcast engineering trade magazine, which interviewed WJW's engineering folks about their future HD plans. It sounded like they were pretty aggressive about it, right down to outfitting SkyFox in HD!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Aiming your antenna differently will do nothing to change the PSIP data on WJW. The problem is on WJW's end. Oddly, it affects some ASTC receivers and not others. My E* 921 reads 008-01 for WJW all the time. I did have problems last year with WUAB, which went blank on 043-01. A rescan put it on 028-01, this lasted for a short time and then 043-01 returned "on channel".



My OTA receiver was picking up WJW-DT's sole channel at 31-2 for about a week or two. I think it's OK now.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the information on PQ everyone! It all makes sense to me (except for Hookbill's ext. drive problem, I have one as well and it works just fine and I don't want to jinx it by saying so). I so agree Adelphia SD is terrible, made all the worse I think by my Sony 955XS. .



My SD off Adelphia is outstanding (Panny 44" LCD). What made the biggest difference for me was locking the output of the 8300 to 720p. Of course some channels and some program material is better/worse than others, but overall for what I watch (SCI-FI, BBC America, USA) it looks decent, even when stretched.


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know locally if you can pick up the HD stations from Adelphia simply by plugging in the cable to an HD tuner (not needing a box to get the 700-series channels then component out to the monitor). Basically, the cable line acts as if it's a big antenna.
> 
> 
> Insight cable in Columbus, if you plug the cable into your HDTV tuner you get the OTA signal, bypassing the cable box and compression. I don't know if they remodulate the signals down the line or what, but it's great.
> 
> Any thoughts?



I am on Adelphia.

My HDTV has a tuner. It has 2 inputs from cable.

One is direct cable feed.

The other is from the HDTV converter(cable company) box.

The input from strictly cable feed does not see the HDTV channels .

I need to use the HDTV cable box to access HDTV .


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am on Adelphia.
> 
> My HDTV has a tuner. It has 2 inputs from cable.
> 
> One is direct cable feed.
> 
> The other is from the HDTV converter(cable company) box.
> 
> The input from strictly cable feed does not see the HDTV channels .
> 
> I need to use the HDTV cable box to access HDTV .




Thanks, I won't waste time trying.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, I won't waste time trying.



HD (and any digital channels on cable for that matter) are transmitted in QAM - Quadrature Amplitute Modulation. Broadcast HD is transmitted in a completely different format - 8VSB (8 bit Vestigial Sideband Modulation). A TV set has to have a QAM tuner in order to receive HD directly off of cable.


The reason for the different formats is stability - 8VSB has a lower throughput rate but is more robust than QAM in the presence of multipath interference. QAM has better throughput and survives well in a cable environment where there's no multipath interference present.


----------



## Inundated

As has been stated here numerous times, the local HDTV channels are "in the clear" on Adelphia, but you need a tuner that handles QAM. If the tuner doesn't do QAM, it won't work.


Somewhere up here, I posted a list of all the "clear" channels on Adelphia's greater Cleveland system. It includes not only all the network affiliates Adelphia carries in HD (everyone but UPN 43), but the Discovery HD channel and the new HD Bonus channel (Cavs, and maybe Indians down the road).


If Adelphia does not carry the station (like WUAB-DT), you won't get it via QAM, and you won't get the OTA signals via the Adelphia cable line...only the HD stations they do carry. The cable line won't "act like a big antenna", as asked above...


Some folks aren't getting the extra channels, so I don't know if that's an issue with their QAM tuner or not. I'm using a Fusion HDTV5USB tuner on my computer.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As has been stated here numerous times, the local HDTV channels are "in the clear" on Adelphia, but you need a tuner that handles QAM. If the tuner doesn't do QAM, it won't work.
> 
> 
> Somewhere up here, I posted a list of all the "clear" channels on Adelphia's greater Cleveland system. It includes not only all the network affiliates Adelphia carries in HD (everyone but UPN 43), but the Discovery HD channel and the new HD Bonus channel (Cavs, and maybe Indians down the road).
> 
> 
> If Adelphia does not carry the station (like WUAB-DT), you won't get it via QAM, and you won't get the OTA signals via the Adelphia cable line...only the HD stations they do carry. The cable line won't "act like a big antenna", as asked above...
> 
> 
> Some folks aren't getting the extra channels, so I don't know if that's an issue with their QAM tuner or not. I'm using a Fusion HDTV5USB tuner on my computer.



Thanks...does that mean the DirecTV box's HD Tuner is a QAM? That's where I first saw it.


----------



## rlockshin

I have Aldelphia basic service;all I need is a QAM tuner and I can obtain HD from them?

If so, where can I gt QAM tuner and what is cost?

I have HD from DTV ,but have 1 HD ready tv on cable

thanks for help


----------



## ajstan99

Official AVS HDTV STB Synopsis
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have Aldelphia basic service;all I need is a QAM tuner and I can obtain HD from them?
> 
> If so, where can I gt QAM tuner and what is cost?
> 
> I have HD from DTV ,but have 1 HD ready tv on cable
> 
> thanks for help



Yes. Look for the DCR logo (Digital Cable ready) on TV sets and external tuners. The DCR logo means that the device has been certified as being compatible with the cable industry's QAM channels. You can use this device to pick up any in-the-clear HD channels such as the broadcast-basic HD channels.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks...does that mean the DirecTV box's HD Tuner is a QAM? That's where I first saw it.



Direc TV and Dish Netwotk HD STB's are ASTC tuners only - no QAM. So you would need an off-air antenna to use these to get the local stations in HD.


I believe there are some stand alond STB's that may include QAM, however I don't know of any brands or models. Radio Shack had a close out on one STB that they said was "cable ready" however it did not have QAM (hence the close-out). In the analog world all "cable ready" meant was the ability to tune to the "mid-band" channels ("super-band" cable channels are the same frequencies as UHF, just numbered differently). Radio Shack tried to pass off this STB as cable ready probably because it could tune to the mid-band, however it was ASTC only, so in realilty it was only good for OTA.


----------



## Telosian

Thanks for the link ajstan99, I will check it out and should have known about that link, I appreciate you posting it!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe there are some stand alond STB's that may include QAM, however I don't know of any brands or models.



I think the LG 4200 and 3410 do QAM and ATSC both.

http://us.lge.com/


----------



## Inundated

SportsTime Ohio's HD Cleveland Indians games will indeed be shown on Adelphia's "HD Bonus" channel 798. It's now listed on the pull-down menu, under Adelphia, on the STO site.


There also appears to be a digital cable (non-HD) simulcast of STO on 179.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the LG 4200 and 3410 do QAM and ATSC both.
> 
> http://us.lge.com/



The 3510, an HD tuner / upscaling DVD player, also does QAM. However, it only has 1 antenna input, so you must swap the cable and rescan in the setup to switch between QAM and ATSC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SportsTime Ohio's HD Cleveland Indians games will indeed be shown on Adelphia's "HD Bonus" channel 798. It's now listed on the pull-down menu, under Adelphia, on the STO site.
> 
> 
> There also appears to be a digital cable (non-HD) simulcast of STO on 179.



Thanks for that info. I hope Adelphia starts listing the games on their IPG. If they do it like they are doing the Cavs then you will have to do a manual record if you want a recording.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for that info. I hope Adelphia starts listing the games on their IPG. If they do it like they are doing the Cavs then you will have to do a manual record if you want a recording.



Well, they're getting the data somewhere for the IPG - the 179 STO digital cable channel does have the program guide information. I suspect 798 will eventually have the info, as well.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Winner would definitely be cable if all I cared about was HD (other than the fact that I have an antenna for HD locals); however if you watch any SD (e.g., Fox News, or CNN) digital SD from D* beats the hell out of analog SD from most cable companies. That difference is significantly more than the difference between HD sources. That's why I use both D* and OTA. Not to mention that the HD Tivo works with only those two sources.



I'd agree with this - I have D* and Wide Open West, and WOW cable HD PQ is superior to D* HD. WOW cable HD PQ is identical to OTA HD PQ on the locals. On the other hand, all of WOW's low end channels (approx 1 - 83) are analog and the PQ on those SD channels are inferior to D*. So like rlb says, it depends if you're more of an HD lover or an SD lover. Always a compromise, it seems.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link ajstan99, I will check it out and should have known about that link, I appreciate you posting it!



You're most welcome. I didn't know about it either until I stumbled upon a reference to it in some other thread I was scanning.


Inundated's posts have me thinking about getting a QAM tuner and switching back to Adelphia (can't believe I'm saying that). Free Indians, Cavs, PBS, and Discovery in HD may be too good to pass up. I currently have WOW basic (good people and good service) but they don't provide anything via QAM that I can't get OTA.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated's posts have me thinking about getting a QAM tuner and switching back to Adelphia (can't believe I'm saying that). Free Indians, Cavs, PBS, and Discovery in HD may be too good to pass up. I currently have WOW basic (good people and good service) but they don't provide anything via QAM that I can't get OTA.



The only thing I wonder - will TWC keep things the same way when they take over? I think it'd probably be a while before they change lineups, but I wonder if they have the STO and FSN HD feeds in the clear on QAM. (They have to, by law, have the OTA network affiliates' HD feeds in clear QAM.)


I don't know anyone with a QAM tuner on TWC NEO, so I don't know what they have in the clear right now. I'm surprised that Discovery HD is considered Broadcast Basic for Adelphia, and thus in the clear.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only thing I wonder - will TWC keep things the same way when they take over? I think it'd probably be a while before they change lineups, but I wonder if they have the STO and FSN HD feeds in the clear on QAM. (They have to, by law, have the OTA network affiliates' HD feeds in clear QAM.)
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone with a QAM tuner on TWC NEO, so I don't know what they have in the clear right now. I'm surprised that Discovery HD is considered Broadcast Basic for Adelphia, and thus in the clear.



If I recall Adelphia just recently made Discovery available to basic HD subscribers.


I just can't see any changes. It's not feasible. I think TW is going to run with what they pick up, not do an overhaul.


When they buy Adelphia they absorb their assets as well as debts. Why take on a bankrupt company's debt and then tear down their assets? It doesn't make sense.


----------



## paule123

Sportstime Ohio on Adelphia question -

I was at a friends house with Adelphia (Shaker Heights) and checking his channel lineup, looking for the Sportstime Ohio channel. IIRC there was a channel "SPTOH" or similar on channel 179(?). According to the Sportstime Ohio website, they say it will be on Channel 17. Just want to make sure my friend won't require a digital cable box on every TV in the house in order to watch the Indians on Adelphia.


I haven't looked at Adelphia in a long time, but boy, Adelphia has really stepped up to the plate on the HD lineup. I'm not seeing much of a reason to stay with WOW. Adelphia has HDNet and INHD (WOW doesn't have INHD). Adelphia also has ESPN2HD ...and they have the SA8300HD which reportedly provides better resolution than the SA8000HD that WOW provides. I think if April comes and no Indians on WOW, it's an easy choice for me to switch. Hmmmm.....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When they buy Adelphia they absorb their assets as well as debts. Why take on a bankrupt company's debt and then tear down their assets? It doesn't make sense.



It's not a matter of assets in this case, it's lineups.


I do agree that TWC will, assuming it's possible, hold onto channels that Adelphia has rights for that they don't (ESPN2?) in former Adelphia areas. I also agree that they're probably not going to wipe out the former Adelphia lineups on day one.


I just wonder about TWC's general policy regarding what channels get placed where, and what gets fed via QAM in the clear, that's all...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sportstime Ohio on Adelphia question -
> 
> I was at a friends house with Adelphia (Shaker Heights) and checking his channel lineup, looking for the Sportstime Ohio channel. IIRC there was a channel "SPTOH" or similar on channel 179(?). According to the Sportstime Ohio website, they say it will be on Channel 17. Just want to make sure my friend won't require a digital cable box on every TV in the house in order to watch the Indians on Adelphia.



I noticed that as well.


I believe the general intent for STO is to distribute the product as widely as possible. On pretty much every system so far, STO is in at very least the Expanded Basic lineup, and on Adelphia and TWC, it's even in the "lifeline" basic lineup (17 and 23).


I would not expect the games to only be on 179...it would appear to be a digital simulcast channel from here. And the games that Adelphia has already run were on 17.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just wonder about TWC's general policy regarding what channels get placed where, and what gets fed via QAM in the clear, that's all...


_Generally_ TWC will only transmit the locals in the clear, but there are some reports of outliers in several TWC divisions (HBO-SD, Starz-SD, UniversalHD (when we had it), etc).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that as well.
> 
> 
> I believe the general intent for STO is to distribute the product as widely as possible. On pretty much every system so far, STO is in at very least the Expanded Basic lineup, and on Adelphia and TWC, it's even in the "lifeline" basic lineup (17 and 23).
> 
> 
> I would not expect the games to only be on 179...it would appear to be a digital simulcast channel from here. And the games that Adelphia has already run were on 17.



Maybe. I don't trust Adelphia. They nickle and dime you any way they can.


Think about it. They get you in as a feebie and then say "Oh, now that you've enjoyed our free "trial" see more of the Tribe on STO on digital channel 179." And then they drop the analog feed.


STO probably has it in their contract for it to be widely available so it probably won't go down that way. Still, this is Adelphia we are talking about.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually I've been getting both the HD bonus channel and channel 17 with my cheapo Adelphia broadcast basic package, which actually makes it more economical than when the Indians were on Fox Sports Net.


It will be interesting to see if Dish signs this week, although I doubt that they'll pick up the HD broadcasts (I don't know that they do any regional HD networks).


----------



## Inundated

No Dish or DirecTV for STO yet, but you WOW folks are now onboard:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle 


Also, Clear Picture/Massillon Cable, and tiny GLW Broadband out in Grafton...


----------



## paule123

Praise the Lord! They've moved EWTN and the nun lady so I can watch baseball.


I see my threats to cancel WOW and go with Adelphia worked


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Praise the Lord! They've moved EWTN and the nun lady so I can watch baseball.



You can make up for it by praying for Indians wins.










Looks like you get it in HD too. I wonder if the systems that don't have an HD channel listed will do so...


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I recall Adelphia just recently made Discovery available to basic HD subscribers.



I have a Toshiba 62HM195 which has a QAM tuner. The weird thing is, I can get (without a cable box) only two HD channels: 776 (Discovery HD) and 798 (the "bonus" channel that the Cavs are on). I can't get the locals which is what I'd want the most (especially when considering a possible second HD set in my household.)


The cable tech was at my house this weekend for another issue and was totally confused when I asked about these channels. He sounded like "it works for some people, not for others" (regarding the local HD channels), which sounds to me like he didn't know the first thing about my question.


(He actually suggested I try, for example 3-2 or 3-5 for the HD channel for NBC--that doesn't work.)


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Toshiba 62HM195 which has a QAM tuner. The weird thing is, I can get (without a cable box) only two HD channels: 776 (Discovery HD) and 798 (the "bonus" channel that the Cavs are on). I can't get the locals which is what I'd want the most (especially when considering a possible second HD set in my household.)



HAve you tried re-scanning for available channels? Maybe the set didn't pick up those QAMs on the first try.


----------



## paule123

Pucky,

You might have a weak signal coming in - try running the cable direct from the cable feed into the house right to the set without any taps in between, then re-scan. You could also try adding an amplifier in the line.


I had flaky problems with some QAM channels coming in and others not coming in until I added an amplifier to the line and cleaned up some extra taps (splitters) on the cable.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sportstime Ohio on Adelphia question -
> 
> I haven't looked at Adelphia in a long time, but boy, Adelphia has really stepped up to the plate on the HD lineup. I'm not seeing much of a reason to stay with WOW. Adelphia has HDNet and INHD (WOW doesn't have INHD). Adelphia also has ESPN2HD ...and they have the SA8300HD which reportedly provides better resolution than the SA8000HD that WOW provides. I think if April comes and no Indians on WOW, it's an easy choice for me to switch. Hmmmm.....



WOW has recently added TNT-HD, FSNOH-HD, and now SportsTime Ohio-HD all within a few months so it looks like WOW is starting to remember they provide HD service. The SA8300HD is available from WOW, I know a few people that have the box. They pretty much install what they have in stock, so we as customers are limited to what they give us. But you might be able to go to the local office and see if you can do a swap, some people have gotten the 8300 without a problem.


----------



## davidshay

I am using Adelphia with a PC-card tuner (pchdtv) and getting many QAM channels, but not all. I am in the Copley area (north/west of Akron) if that matters.


Here is what I am currently receiving (which doesn't exactly match what others have reported in the past...):


Channel C84: (SD version of local networks) [frequency 585000000]

WKYC

WOIO

WEWS

WUAB

WJW

Channel C86: [frequency 597000000]

DSCHD (or DHD) -- Discovery HD

Channel C88: [frequency 609000000]

HDBON

Channel C103: [frequency 669000000]

WTHR+ (weather channel associated with WKYC)

Channel C104: [frequency 675000000]

WKYCDT

Channel C113: [frequency 729000000]

WOIODT

WVIZDT



I have tried several different ways to find WEWSDT and WJWDT but can't locate them. Does anyone know what QAM Channel they should be on? It does appear that Adelphia has done some re-orging of the QAM channels since the last time I tried this. At that point (maybe 3 months or so ago at least), I think the weather and WKYCDT were on the same channel, for instance. Anyhow, can anyone confirm that they are currently receiving WEWSDT and WJWDT from Adelphia via QAM and report back on the QAM channel? Also, please confirm that the rest of the lineup above matches what you get?


Thanks.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW has recently added TNT-HD, FSNOH-HD, and now SportsTime Ohio-HD all within a few months so it looks like WOW is starting to remember they provide HD service. The SA8300HD is available from WOW, I know a few people that have the box. They pretty much install what they have in stock, so we as customers are limited to what they give us. But you might be able to go to the local office and see if you can do a swap, some people have gotten the 8300 without a problem.



I keep forgetting that they have a local office. They don't make that public knowledge the way Adelphia does...


IIRC, Adelphia has, but WOW is still missing:

PBSHD

ESPN2HD

InHD

ShoHD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I keep forgetting that they have a local office. They don't make that public knowledge the way Adelphia does...
> 
> 
> IIRC, Adelphia has, but WOW is still missing:
> 
> PBSHD
> 
> ESPN2HD
> 
> InHD
> 
> ShoHD



Also INHD2










Does WOW also give the NFL Network in HD? Not that it matters much, nothing is ever in HD on that station anyway.


----------



## paule123

Yeah, WOW has NFL Network. Here's the list:


High Definition Television

200 ABCHD

201 CBSHD

202 FOXHD

203 NBCHD

204 WUAB DT

410 HBO HD*

471 MAX HD*

493 STARZ HD*

*Must subscribe to premium

service to receive


HD Pak

(available a la carte)

209 TNT HD

210 Discovery HD Theater

211 ESPN HD

212 HDNet

213 HDNet Movies

214 Wealth TV HD

215 NFL Network HD


My edits - add:

220 FSNOH HD - "Cavaliers" channel

221 SPTOH HD - "Indians" channel


(edit: added channel numbers for the last two)


----------



## ted_b

SPTOH HD on WOW will be channel 221.


----------



## Argee

Davidshay:


Try 105-1 wews


105-2 wjw


----------



## Inundated

I'm on the same branch of the Adelphia system as davidshay is, and I'll confirm that WEWS and WJW are on QAM channel 105. I get them with no problem on my Fusion HDTV5USB tuner.


One oddity - the Fusion tuner returns channel "1051-2" for WJW-DT, where it properly returns 05-1 for WEWS-DT. Maybe there's problem with Adelphia's PSIP use on 105? Anyway, the Fusion doesn't seem to care...and displays both channels just fine.


----------



## Chris Isble

Davidshay:


My lineup is slightly different. I am getting WVIZ, for a total of 6 SD channels, on 84.


Discovery HD is nowhere to be found, but I am getting something called LOGO on 90-13.


As others have posted, 105-5 and 105-8 are the HD feeds for WEWS and WJW respectively.


I am also getting the music only channels on 80 and 93.


----------



## Inundated

For those who asked - SportsTime Ohio is indeed still on Adelphia 17 for today's game, and is simulcasting on digital (SD) cable 179. They're not on HD 798 today, but STO isn't doing any spring training games in HD.


----------



## Dweezilz

What channel is that in the Macedonia (Twinsburg) area? 17 is MTV here.


BTW, don't forget that the Cavs game is on STO 798 tonight!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What channel is that in the Macedonia (Twinsburg) area? 17 is MTV here.



They said channel 97 in the launch PR, but I think someone here said it may be on 71. Try both.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, don't forget that the Cavs game is on STO 798 tonight!



:up:


And BTW, when STO starts doing HD Indians games, those will be on 798 as well, even up there...


----------



## Dweezilz

Yep, it's 97! thanks! Can't wait to see how the Cavs broadcast looks tonight. Will scheduled recording work on that channel? As it turns out I have a meeting from 7 - 8.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, it's 97! thanks! Can't wait to see how the Cavs broadcast looks tonight. Will scheduled recording work on that channel? As it turns out I have a meeting from 7 - 8.



I don't think it's in the program guide, which is odd, because it was the first night. It just says "HD Bonus".


They block it into 4 hour blocks, so you can pretty much just record "HD Bonus" from 6-10 PM and likely get the whole game...(unless it runs over







)


Of course, you will have to fast forward past a half-hour or so, and then pregame...


----------



## Inundated

I've been trying to see if the digital version (SD) of SportsTime Ohio is in the clear QAM wise, like WeatherPlus, etc... and it apparently is not. Or, at least, they aren't attaching PSIP data to it...


Anyone get this to work? QAM TV tuner or PC QAM tuner, please...I know the digital cable box version works on 179.


----------



## hookbill

I'm watching on 179, picture is much cleaner then on 17.


----------



## hookbill

Hey guys. Those of you with the SA 8300 may want to keep an eye on your recordings for next week. I spotted some discrepencies in the guide and when they are set to record. Just take a look over your "to be recorded" list for next week.


If I recall correctly I had the samed problem last year during the time switch. Make your recording adjustments as needed. Better safe then sorry.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm watching on 179, picture is much cleaner then on 17.



Sound was clearer, too. I was getting an S-lisp on 17, but not on 179.


I wish I could get 179 on my QAM USB tuner...the analog 17 on the tuner looks awful, and even snowier on a regular TV...


----------



## paule123

Well guys, I noticed SBC installed this big new box in my neighborhood a couple weeks ago, I posted pictures of it on the DSLReports.com SBC forum, and word has it that it's a box to facilitate AT&T's new "Project Lightspeed" IPTV service. You can see my pix and feedback here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15784021 


So who knows, by the end of the year, AT&T will throw another wrench in the Adelphia vs. WOW vs. Satellite debate!


----------



## Inundated

I'll have to start looking to see if there are any of those in the neighborhood...


----------



## hookbill

I doubt I'll see any of that. I live in Alltel land. They are stuck in the 80's.










It would be great if cable and phone companies truly competed. Then everyone would get much better services. I'd love being in that area where you can have either WOW or Adelphia. I'd be playing them off each other weekly.


----------



## gzath

From www.dishchannelchart.com 


"3/29/06


Channel 431 Sports Time Ohio moved from tp 24 at 110° to tp 18 at 119°. It is still not available to subscribers. (ANON)"



At this point, I just want it on. I'll get my HD fix off of the OTA broadcasts.


Interesting that they are uplinking and moving it around. If there was no interest by Dish, would they even bother?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From www.dishchannelchart.com
> 
> 
> "3/29/06
> 
> 
> Channel 431 Sports Time Ohio moved from tp 24 at 110° to tp 18 at 119°. It is still not available to subscribers. (ANON)"
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, I just want it on. I'll get my HD fix off of the OTA broadcasts.
> 
> 
> Interesting that they are uplinking and moving it around. If there was no interest by Dish, would they even bother?



Thanks for the heads-up. I hope E* is close to an agreement on STO.


It makes sense to have STO on 119 since FSN Ohio is on 119. There may still be some Top-120 subs with a Dish 300 aimed at 119 only.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From www.dishchannelchart.com
> 
> 
> Interesting that they are uplinking and moving it around. If there was no interest by Dish, would they even bother?



Because they want to mess with your MIND!!!!

















I sympathize, really. That would bug the heck out of me.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

i heard this update on the radio today:


all major cable subscribers should have access to STO. only 20-30,000 cable subscribers in the Cleveland market will be able to watch STO.


Dish Network is 70% of the way to signing an agreement.


DirecTV does not look as good, but that doesnt mean it looks bad.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i heard this update on the radio today:
> 
> 
> all major cable subscribers should have access to STO. only 20-30,000 cable subscribers in the Cleveland market will be able to watch STO.



Um, you mean "not" be able to watch.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dish Network is 70% of the way to signing an agreement.
> 
> 
> DirecTV does not look as good, but that doesnt mean it looks bad.



Where did you hear this, by the way? And what does "70% of the way" mean?










I do expect DirecTV to sign up. Aside from the ongoing behind the scenes satellite activity, I'm surprised that Dish seems to be headed towards signing up.


----------



## Inundated

STO has locked up all of the big cable providers in Northern Ohio, with Armstrong now agreeing to carry the network.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...portstime.html 


But maybe the most interesting item here - a copy of an advertisement by Time Warner Cable in the Beacon Journal today, with big letters stating: "INDIANS IN HD NOT AVAILABLE ON SATELLITE".


Does this mean that STO's 63 HD games won't be available to DirecTV and/or Dish Network whenever they manage to agree to carry the network? Hmm.


----------



## jtscherne

That is correct, unless they choose to show selected games on their HD events channels. At this point, the satellite companies don't show ANY HD programming from regional sports networks, except some games from the Extra Innings package.


Dish at least has stated in the past that they want to offer the HD RSN programming, but they're working on getting HD locals up, so it's unlikely that any other HD programming will appear for awhile.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is correct, unless they choose to show selected games on their HD events channels. At this point, the satellite companies don't show ANY HD programming from regional sports networks, except some games from the Extra Innings package.



Doesn't DirecTV have a couple of HD RSNs? I seem to recall seeing something in the HDTV Programming section about YES in HD (the Yankees' RSN)...


I know there aren't a lot of 'em, though.


----------



## jtscherne

You may be right. I don't know much about DireccTV since I'm a Dish subscriber.


At this point, I'll be keeping my cheap Adelphia package even if Dish signs with STO so that I can get the HD games on STO, since the package is less than $20 per month, including the 8300 DVR, and includes the HD locals. Dish will be offering HD locals for Cleveland later this year (probably), but HD Indians broadcasts are important to me.


----------



## gzath

A forum on scout.com was reporting that yesterday's Indians/Tigers replay was showing up on ESPN alt channel 145 and some reporting the same on 431. A Canadian Dish viewer with a "hacked" card (the only way cunucks can get satellite) verified this.


Of course, this is coming second/third hand and not directly from my eyes viewing a game but it is more info leaning towards Dish carrying the Tribe.


Bastages are probably teasing us only to pull the rug out before Tuesday.


I guess a good test will be to see if today's 7:00pm rebroadcast shows up on either.


----------



## Inundated

Here's your final SportsTime Ohio release on the cable situation:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle 


It has a list of channels at the bottom, including new HD channel listings for some services that were not listing them before. Comcast is listed as an HD carrier, for example, though they don't have a channel yet.


And it lists Adelphia 179, which we spotted here. It will be an SD digital simulcast of STO, and 17 will still carry games in analog (and 798 in HD).


No mention of DirecTV or Dish Network, though they're kind of hinting at it in noting that there's a "strong possibility" of other agreements before Opening Day...


----------



## Inundated

And then there was one - SportsTime Ohio and Dish Network have signed a deal:

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/sports_ar...?storyid=50230 


Nothing on DirecTV - yet...


----------



## Inundated

It sounds like DirecTV is populating the guide on channel 657 with SportsTime Ohio programming. Keep your fingers crossed if you're hoping to see STO on D*!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And then there was one - SportsTime Ohio and Dish Network have signed a deal:
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/sports/sports_ar...?storyid=50230
> 
> 
> Nothing on DirecTV - yet...



This was announced last night on WEWS 11:00 PM sports report.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This was announced last night on WEWS 11:00 PM sports report.



"This" being Dish or DirecTV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "This" being Dish or DirecTV?



WKYC had it on the morning news. I rushed to the computer to announce it but Innundated was already on top of it.










It being Dish.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC had it on the morning news. I rushed to the computer to announce it but Inundated was already on top of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It being Dish.



I've corrected your typo










As noted, DirecTV has been putting STO in the programming guide on channel 657, so maybe there'll be a deal announced there on Monday.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A forum on scout.com was reporting that yesterday's Indians/Tigers replay was showing up on ESPN alt channel 145 and some reporting the same on 431. A Canadian Dish viewer with a "hacked" card (the only way cunucks can get satellite) verified this.
> 
> 
> Of course, this is coming second/third hand and not directly from my eyes viewing a game but it is more info leaning towards Dish carrying the Tribe.
> 
> 
> Bastages are probably teasing us only to pull the rug out before Tuesday.
> 
> 
> I guess a good test will be to see if today's 7:00pm rebroadcast shows up on either.



Please don't say that "A Canadian Dish viewer with a "hacked" card (the only way cunucks _sic_ can get satellite)". Canadians have Bell ExpressVue and Star Choice available to them on sattelite. If they had to get U.S. satellite there is the "Grey Market" where an address broker uses a valid U.S. address to activate an account for Canadians (there is also a "Gray Market" for U.S. residents to get Bell Express Vue and Star Choice). The difference between the Grey/Gray market and hacking is with the grey/gray market the satellite providers get paid while hacking is stealing an encrypted signal.


Hacking is a criminal offense, no matter which side of the border your are on. The RCMP has been cracking down hard on the hackers.


Hacking is frowned upon on all the legit discussion boards. There is absolutely no justification for hacking. With the Grey market a payment is made to E* and/or D*, the DBS providers get a sub, they just don't know the true location of the receiver. Hacking otoh is stealing. The only one getting money are the pirates who hack boxes for stealing signals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please don't say that "A Canadian Dish viewer with a "hacked" card (the only way cunucks can get satellite)". Canadians have Bell ExpressVue and Star Choice available to them on sattelite. If they had to get U.S. satellite there is the "Grey Market" where an address broker uses a valid U.S. address to activate an account for Canadians (there is also a "Gray Market" for U.S. residents to get Bell Express Vue and Star Choice). The difference between the Grey/Gray market and hacking is with the grey/gray market the satellite providers get paid while hacking is stealing an encrypted signal.
> 
> 
> Hacking is a criminal offense, no matter which side of the border your are on. The RCMP has been cracking down hard on the hackers.
> 
> 
> Hacking is frowned upon on all the legit discussion boards. There is absolutely no justification for hacking. With the Grey market a payment is made to E* and/or D*, the DBS providers get a sub, they just don't know the true location of the receiver. Hacking otoh is stealing. The only one getting money are the pirates who hack boxes for stealing signals.



Not that I want to get politically correct, I've heard this term all my life because I'm French Canadian but is "Canuck" an appropriate word?


----------



## Dweezilz

Being that Vancouver's hockey is call The Canucks, I'm guessing it's not deemed offensive generally speaking, especially if used by a Canadian. If it was insulting, then they are being rude to themselves.










It's actually deemed a patriotic term in Canada according to the Wikipedia listing, however, it says that it can be misunderstood & deemed an insult to the heritage if an outsider says it. I'm guessing it would be if used sarcastically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canuck


----------



## davidshay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm on the same branch of the Adelphia system as davidshay is, and I'll confirm that WEWS and WJW are on QAM channel 105. I get them with no problem on my Fusion HDTV5USB tuner.
> 
> 
> One oddity - the Fusion tuner returns channel "1051-2" for WJW-DT, where it properly returns 05-1 for WEWS-DT. Maybe there's problem with Adelphia's PSIP use on 105? Anyway, the Fusion doesn't seem to care...and displays both channels just fine.



Argh. I tested some more and I don't even get a lock on 105, much less PSIP data. I also just got the same tuner you have and it ALSO doesn't get a lock or see anything on 105.


Any chance of getting any support from Adelphia on this? Any hints on how to phrase the question?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davidshay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any chance of getting any support from Adelphia on this? Any hints on how to phrase the question?



How's your signal strength, particularly on 105? It's hard to determine what the actual signal strength is on the Fusion on QAM tuning, as it almost always shows above 90% if there's anything there.


I had a problem with some of the QAM channels until I realized that I'd inadvertently put an EXTRA splitter in the line between the other room and here. Removing that got me a perfectly strong signal and cleared up my QAM difficulties. And I'm running a 25 foot cable between the living room and here!


When I did have the problems, the signal strength was close to 90% on the Fusion on those channels. After removing the extra splitter, the signal strength shows 97-100%.


How do you work Adelphia support on this? Good question. If you notice any snow or any other problems that are not related to QAM tuning, maybe you can work that angle. Do you have any analog channels that are particularly "not clear"?


----------



## Michael P 2341

I just heard on the Mike Trivisonno show on 1100 WTAM that SportsTime Ohio has finally struck a deal with DirecTV!


There is only one hitch on the DirecTv deal, only the "inner ring" of the Indians market will get the games. Elligible zip codes will be posted on the STO site.


EDIT: I found the elligible zip codes:
http://www.mooheadradio.com/2.0/index.php 


BTW: This "inner ring" is not geographic. For example Youngstown 443 will get the games while Warren 444 will not. There are many more screwy situations where a farther zip gets the games while the closer does not.


Many of us have come to expect such a deal from Dish Network, however this time it's DirecTV that has come up with a "Cheepo..." deal. Go figure!


----------



## jtscherne

Michael, are you getting STO in your Dish program guide? I don't see it and I've read on dbstalk that it should be there. I don't want to call if there's something obvious that I'm not seeing...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW: This "inner ring" is not geographic. For example Youngstown 443 will get the games while Warren 444 will not. There are many more screwy situations where a farther zip gets the games while the closer does not.



Youngstown is actually 445--...443-- is the Akron area...but you're right, Youngstown area ZIP codes are on the list, and Warren ZIP codes are not. This is one of the oddest things I've ever seen in sports TV.


The list is officially on the STO site.


----------



## Inundated

Columbus ZIP codes are on the list, but Warren is not. What's with that?


The only thing I can say...maybe the fact there is a deal overall would make it easier to correct these problems.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davidshay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Argh. I tested some more and I don't even get a lock on 105, much less PSIP data. I also just got the same tuner you have and it ALSO doesn't get a lock or see anything on 105.



Do you have any basic-only traps on your line? Are the connectors outside your home in good shape and water tight? Good quality 1ghz splitters and digital-rated RF connectors? (the kind that are installed with a piston-style compression tool, not a crimper).


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I've noticed that time and program guide info for all the local OTA stations has not been updated to Daylight Savings Time yet. I checked them all - except for WKYC-DT, which is not coming in for me right now - and WEAO-DT is still having the same problem with their time being a few hours and change off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Columbus ZIP codes are on the list, but Warren is not. What's with that?
> 
> 
> The only thing I can say...maybe the fact there is a deal overall would make it easier to correct these problems.




I'll bet D* got a bunch of request for STO from Columbus, but not so many from Warren. Probably it's due to population.


I wonder if Columbus also gets FOX Sports Ohio, Cincinnati? They are right in the middle. I also wonder if we won't see some Reds games on Fox Sports Ohio since they are no longer covering the Tribe?


I'm thinking about ordering MLB Extra Innings this year, but I don't see any additional HD games if I do that. Yesterday I looked at the PQ between ESPN HD and whatever channel was used on MLB EI for the Mets-National game (it's free the first week if you didn't know). I thought there was something wrong with my eyes, the pq difference was so noticeable that it was almost blurry to me.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about ordering MLB Extra Innings this year, but I don't see any additional HD games if I do that. Yesterday I looked at the PQ between ESPN HD and whatever channel was used on MLB EI for the Mets-National game (it's free the first week if you didn't know). I thought there was something wrong with my eyes, the pq difference was so noticeable that it was almost blurry to me.



(confused) - are you saying the game on MLB EI was HD and the PQ sucked, or the ESPN HD PQ sucks?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (confused) - are you saying the game on MLB EI was HD and the PQ sucked, or the ESPN HD PQ sucks?



I'm saying ESPN HD was great and MLB EI sucked in comparison.


However, if I hadn't been able to compare the two I might not have felt so strongly.


----------



## paule123

I'm not seeing channel 657 (STO) in my D* guide this morning... I wonder if I have to call D* and tell them to hit the box?


I am in one of the "approved" zip codes.


----------



## joepic

TWC NEO has added/duplicated channel 117 plus a whole bunch (not at home to give details) of channels in the 700 series of numbers.


I believe Channel 55 is either moving to 117 or will be duplicated there. Also the FOOD Netwark channel 43 is now also at 714.


If you go to TWC's web site their is NO reference to the new 700 series of numbers.


Is this part of the Adelphia buy out and changing ALL stations around here in NEO land?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is this part of the Adelphia buy out and changing ALL stations around here in NEO land?



I don't think so. Adelphia uses the 700's for their HD tier.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if Columbus also gets FOX Sports Ohio, Cincinnati? They are right in the middle. I also wonder if we won't see some Reds games on Fox Sports Ohio since they are no longer covering the Tribe?



Yes, Columbus gets both Fox Sports channels from Ohio. I lived in Columbus for about 13 years, and I had D* for the last couple. It was great. I'm a big BlueJackets fan, and when the Cleveland station was showing the Cavs, the Cincinnati station would have the hockey game. Or if the Cincy station had a Xavier game, the Cleveland regional would usually be showing hockey.


When I moved to Cleveland a few years ago, I lost out on the Cincinnati feed of the games, and quite a few hockey games became unavailable. I *almost* ordered the Center Ice package until I figured out that because we're in the BlueJackets' market here in Cleveland, I could get the Cincinnati feed of the game unblocked by ordering the sports package on D*. It's roughly the same cost as the Center Ice package (about $140 per year - $12 or so a month), but with the sports package I get all of the regional sports channels. So now in addition to almost every BlueJackets game, I get to watch women's curling from South Dakota!










And as for seeing the Reds, I doubt it. D* blocks all out-of-region baseball games on the regionals unless you order the Extra Innings package. We're clearly out of the Reds' market.


Oh, and one other thing. For those with D* and the regional sports package, we're also in the Penguins' market. The games shown on Fox Sports Pittsburgh come through in the clear.


----------



## hookbill

Well, they have to fill the time they would use to broadcast Indian games with something substantial, one would think. So I would say either the Reds, or possibly the Pirates.


One can only take so much of Sumo Wrestling and extreme skateboarding.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing channel 657 (STO) in my D* guide this morning... I wonder if I have to call D* and tell them to hit the box?
> 
> 
> I am in one of the "approved" zip codes.



Well, I have Dish and just spent over an hour on the phone with a technician who had me go through a bunch of useless tests to prove that everything is working properly. He then said he'd send a signal and if that didn't work they'd have to send a technician. Made me think I was dealing with Adelphia customer service!


Anyway, as of now, I'm still not seeing STO in my guide listing and from what I've read on DBStalk.com, it should be there...


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, they have to fill the time they would use to broadcast Indian games with something substantial, one would think. So I would say either the Reds, or possibly the Pirates.
> 
> 
> One can only take so much of Sumo Wrestling and extreme skateboarding.



I assume we're talking about Fox Sports, right? Because we're out of the Reds market, and Fox Sports Pittsburgh (I'm sure) has the broadcast rights to the Pirates, I doubt we'll be seeing either on Fox Sports Ohio here in Cleveland. The Pirates' website shows only FSP as the TV home. The Reds' site does show Fox Sports Ohio, but again, I think that because we're out of the market we probably won't get them here.


My guess is that we'll just see more reruns of the Best Damn Sports Show.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, now I have an answer from a different Dish technician. I have an open installation order for next Tuesday to upgrade my HD receiver. Dish tech support just told me that since I have an open order, nothing can be changed on my programming, meaning that since the order was opened before Dish added the station, it can't be added without cancelling the order!


Argh!!!!!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I have Dish and just spent over an hour on the phone with a technician who had me go through a bunch of useless tests to prove that everything is working properly. He then said he'd send a signal and if that didn't work they'd have to send a technician. Made me think I was dealing with Adelphia customer service!
> 
> 
> Anyway, as of now, I'm still not seeing STO in my guide listing and from what I've read on DBStalk.com, it should be there...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, now I have an answer from a different Dish technician. I have an open installation order for next Tuesday to upgrade my HD receiver. Dish tech support just told me that since I have an open order, nothing can be changed on my programming, meaning that since the order was opened before Dish added the station, it can't be added without cancelling the order!
> 
> 
> Argh!!!!!



Wow. Did Adelphia buy out Dish?


----------



## paule123

Channel 657 STO is in the D* guide now. Today's game at 2:05 is not indicated though, it just says "Regular Schedule" for all 24 hours.


(FYI, I did not call D* to hit the box, it just automagically appeared within the last couple hours)


----------



## jtscherne

Pretty much what I thought...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. Did Adelphia buy out Dish?


----------



## rlockshin

I see 657 in my Direct Tv guide. Where is the HD broadcast of the game located?

Should be in the 90's I don't see it in the guide

Thanks


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see 657 in my Direct Tv guide. Where is the HD broadcast of the game located?
> 
> Should be in the 90's I don't see it in the guide
> 
> Thanks



I don't think D* is carrying the HD channel yet. There's no channel number for DirecTV HD mentioned at www.sportstimeohio.com 


IMO, we won't see STO HD until some time after they start doing the Cleveland locals with the new MPEG4 gear.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channel 657 STO is in the D* guide now. Today's game at 2:05 is not indicated though, it just says "Regular Schedule" for all 24 hours.
> 
> 
> (FYI, I did not call D* to hit the box, it just automagically appeared within the last couple hours)



Looks like we've got some teething problems here - now the D* IPG is showing the proper STO schedule - pre-game show is supposedly on now at 1:30pm - but I'm getting a black screen and a call ext 721 for ordering information message. Bah.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like we've got some teething problems here - now the D* IPG is showing the proper STO schedule - pre-game show is supposedly on now at 1:30pm - but I'm getting a black screen and a call ext 721 for ordering information message. Bah.



Coming in here just fine in Medina. Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I have the sports package. It'll be interesting to see if the game kicks on for you at 2.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Coming in here just fine in Medina. Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I have the sports package. It'll be interesting to see if the game kicks on for you at 2.



On channel 179 Indians pre game is suppose to be on but I got a grey screen.


First HD game I believe is this Friday. However Adelphia does not have that listed on 798.


----------



## Brian5150

Does any1 know what games will be avail. in hd on sto?

A schedule would be appreciated.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Coming in here just fine in Medina. Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that I have the sports package. It'll be interesting to see if the game kicks on for you at 2.



STO is up and running now on D* - I'm Shaker Heights 44120 - I suspect the box was waiting for the zipcode authorization data to come down from the satellite.


BTW, I have Total Choice Plus and the Cleveland Locals. No special sports packages or anything.


----------



## brh-z2

Hookbill,


How did you find out that Adelphia would not be doing HD till Friday. I set up to record the 2-6pm block on 798 (adelphia-macedonia) hoping to see todays game when I get home tonight.


Very exciting times!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian5150* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does any1 know what games will be avail. in hd on sto?
> 
> A schedule would be appreciated.



Here's the schedule:
http://www.sportstimeohio.com/schedule.jsp 


All the STO and WKYC home games are in HD. I'm not sure about the away games.


----------



## alfbinet

Will this game today be on Dish Network?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> How did you find out that Adelphia would not be doing HD till Friday. I set up to record the 2-6pm block on 798 (adelphia-macedonia) hoping to see todays game when I get home tonight.
> 
> 
> Very exciting times!



Hate to disappoint you but you won't be seeing the game today on 798.


Actually the game will be on WKYC in HD on Friday. There is a schedule available at www.sportstimeohio.com . If I recall correctly ALL televised home games will be in HD.


----------



## brh-z2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hate to disappoint you but you won't be seeing the game today on 798.
> 
> 
> Actually the game will be on WKYC in HD on Friday. There is a schedule available at STO. If I recall correctly ALL televised home games will be in HD.



Thanks. I miss read the schedule they had on wkyc's site. Though the away games would be HD also.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. Did Adelphia buy out Dish?



Been suffering with Dish support for a while. I'm sure I've posted many times blasting them as well and saying they were not much better than the support I get from Adelphia. Everyone's support stinks! ha!


----------



## Inundated

HD games -


63 STO games (home only)

20 WKYC games (home and away)


----------



## paule123

I emailed WKYC Programming Dept. and they said ALL their games will be HD, both home and away.


Quote:

"At this time, all the games that air on WKYC will be in HD. We will air 20 games.

Next season, all games on WKYC and SportsTime Ohio will be in HD."


Edit: Inundated beat me to it


----------



## paule123

Hmmph. During the postgame interview (4:47pm) , D* screen went black and displaying "call ext. 721 to order" message now. Oh well, hopefully they'll flip the switch on again before the next game.


----------



## Brian Morris

Any one having issues with ota channel 10 woio? I have a dish 811 and when ever I try to watch channel 10 the receiver reboots. Before the reboot it does show that I am getting abour 78-85% signal. I posted over at the DBSTalk site and they said to check over here to see if anyone else was having issues with ota 10.


Thanks for any info.


Brian


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmph. During the postgame interview (4:47pm) , D* screen went black and displaying "call ext. 721 to order" message now. Oh well, hopefully they'll flip the switch on again before the next game.



Sounds like someone is confused. When I had MLB Extra Innings on D* that's pretty much what happened when the game ended. No post game, sometimes the third out and wham!


Maybe whomever throws the switch for our area doesn't realize it's a regular channel. Or D* is just choosing to show Indian games and no additional programming.


Doesn't Rupert Murdock own Direct TV and Fox Sports Net?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, now I have an answer from a different Dish technician. I have an open installation order for next Tuesday to upgrade my HD receiver. Dish tech support just told me that since I have an open order, nothing can be changed on my programming, meaning that since the order was opened before Dish added the station, it can't be added without cancelling the order!
> 
> 
> Argh!!!!!



That is total CSR [email protected]#*. You are not adding an addional service to your account. STO is a part of your "AT-60+ and above" package, as long as you live in the correct zip code. There is no reason for the CSR to not give you service. I'd play "CSR roulette". Call back and get another CSR, ask for a supevisor if the 2nd CSR turns out to be another yahoo.



> Quote:
> Michael, are you getting STO in your Dish program guide? I don't see it and I've read on dbstalk that it should be there. I don't want to call if there's something obvious that I'm not seeing...



BTW: are you looking for the correct channel? It's 431 (right next to FSNO). STO has been in my EPG since yesterday. Today's game appears twice - live at 1:30 and I presume a repeat in prime-time. Oddly tomorrow's game is not yet in the EPG (this was as of last night). I see that the repeat has already started (I'm watching on COX at the moment).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmph. During the postgame interview (4:47pm) , D* screen went black and displaying "call ext. 721 to order" message now. Oh well, hopefully they'll flip the switch on again before the next game.



On COX the game has already started over! (perhaps a bonus because we whipped the Sox 8-2) On E* the game is shown in the EPG to run again in prime-time. Something is wrong with D*. Wait, could it be that the "deal" D* struck excludes rebroadcasts?


If I were a D* customer. I'd call and ask why they cut off the post game show and why they are not showing the rebroadcast.


----------



## EricG

I just turned on STO on D* CH657, the game is being rebrodcast.


----------



## Inundated

Four things:


1) I believe the DirecTV contract includes not only pre-game and post-game, but whatever other programming STO puts out. DirecTV was actually concerned, if you believe the various press reports, that STO didn't have enough programming to justify the amount of money that was being asked.


2) Adelphia replayed the game on 179, but not on 17...


3) First HD STO game should be Saturday at 5:05 PM against the Twins. As noted here, WKYC/3 has the home opener on Friday (and in HD on WKYC-DT).


4) A friend of mine is getting the run around about Warren, which is not on the STO ZIP code list. A DirecTV CSR answered E-Mail saying Warren should be an STO ZIP code (!??!). I haven't heard if they got the game over there today or not.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is total CSR [email protected]#*. You are not adding an addional service to your account. STO is a part of your "AT-60+ and above" package, as long as you live in the correct zip code. There is no reason for the CSR to not give you service. I'd play "CSR roulette". Call back and get another CSR, ask for a supevisor if the 2nd CSR turns out to be another yahoo.
> 
> 
> BTW: are you looking for the correct channel? It's 431 (right next to FSNO). STO has been in my EPG since yesterday. Today's game appears twice - live at 1:30 and I presume a repeat in prime-time. Oddly tomorrow's game is not yet in the EPG (this was as of last night). I see that the repeat has already started (I'm watching on COX at the moment).



I knew the correct channel number; it just doesn't appear in my program guide...


This was the second CSR that told me this. She stated that if ANY new channel would be added during the period that the order was open I would not get it until the order was completed.


The first CSR just had me do a bunch of tests and resets and then suggested that a technician might have to come out (thus the Adelphia crack from earlier!) I was gone all day and it still isn't there. I'll probably call again tomorrow to see if I can get any other excuse.


----------



## Michael P 2341

431 first appeared in my guide when my dish got blown out of alignment. My guide had no channels until I reaimed the dish. When it reloaded there was STO!


Did the first CSR have you disconnect the satellite dish input (while leaving the IRD plugged in for several hours)? It's an extreme method, perhaps it only works with the 921. Anyway it was totally by accident (and mother nature beating up my pole mounted dish).


----------



## HDTD

I thought the STO broadcast looked really sharp, can't wait to see HD this week.


The graphics look great and the broadcast was done really well, compared to other team broadcasts. Though they're not quite YES Network, they're definitely not as obnoxious as Fox.


Wondering when my TiVo will update the guide to add STO to Adelphia 179, currently I have to manually hit it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wondering when my TiVo will update the guide to add STO to Adelphia 179, currently I have to manually hit it.



Someone told me a long time ago that Zap2it.com uses the same information on it's guide that TiVo uses (probably Inundated). I've noticed that channel 179 is not listed on that guide either.


----------



## paule123

STO Channel 657 has disappeared from the guide this morning on D* ....


*sigh*


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Someone told me a long time ago that Zap2it.com uses the same information on it's guide that TiVo uses (probably Inundated). I've noticed that channel 179 is not listed on that guide either.



That is correct, and yes, it was me










TiVo uses Tribune Media Services - you'll see that copyright information at the bottom of every TiVo listing's "info" screen when you're in a show - and so does Zap2It.


A check this morning shows no 179/SPTOH yet, but they did add WKYC's Weather Plus (183) in both places a while ago...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO Channel 657 has disappeared from the guide this morning on D* ....
> 
> 
> *sigh*



Maybe they're gonna keep pushing it out and putting it back in since it's an occasional feed?







Maybe it'll show up again tonight before the game...


----------



## Brian26339

Anybody else getting the "channel not purchased message" on Directv 657 right now during the pregame? I watched part of the rebroadcast of yesterdays game last night and it worked fine.


Thanks.


----------



## Brian26339

Channel popped on right 2:00pm. Missed the pregame but it looks like I'll get to watch the game itself. Teething problem with Directv I guess.


----------



## snagy

TimeWarner in Akron, has Channel 23 blacked out. Have to watch it on WGN instead.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TimeWarner in Akron, has Channel 23 blacked out. Have to watch it on WGN instead.



You have to call them. There's no way that should happen, as TWC is STO's main carrier!


----------



## Argee

Adelphia had todays pregame but DirecTV seems not to be carrying the pregame. I wonder why??


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia had todays pregame but DirecTV seems not to be carrying the pregame. I wonder why??



Still some glitches, it appears, all the way around on DirecTV with STO. It'll probably take them a week or two to get it right.


Is D* carrying the game itself? I know Adelphia is, as I'm watching it in another window here


----------



## hookbill

I'm repeating myself but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the way D* works it. Not the correct way, but it seems that they are treating it like they do their MLB Extra innings. Game only, no pregame and no post game.


WKYC'S Pregame starts tomorrow 2 hours before the game. I don't know if that is going to be in HD but the game is suppose to. Adelphia does not have the "HD" symbol in their description, but they miss that frequently.


Added: Zap2it.com doesn't list it as a HD game either on WKYC-DT. I have been listening for a mention of it being in HD during the promos when the announcers have talked about it but they haven't mentioned it either.


I know WKYC has confirmed all home games and away games in HD, but it's funny that neither guide has it listed that way and that the announcers arn't talking about it.


Hope we're not in for a disappointment.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm repeating myself but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the way D* works it. Not the correct way, but it seems that they are treating it like they do their MLB Extra innings. Game only, no pregame and no post game.



As mentioned before, D* was quite adamant in the discussions with STO that there should be more than Indians' programming. Though it may not be showing up now, at some point, they will HAVE to have the pre-game and post-game.


The release about D* signing up with STO references the network's upcoming future non-game programming being seen on the service, so why would pre-game/post-game not be? I think it's just a "first week glitch".



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC'S Pregame starts tomorrow 2 hours before the game. I don't know if that is going to be in HD but the game is suppose to. Adelphia does not have the "HD" symbol in their description, but they miss that frequently.



None of the NBC HD programming on WKYC-DT 703 has "HD" in the description. I once blamed myself for this, as I'm the one who alerted them when WKYC-DT first showed up with NO programming in the guide, and told them that they could just copy channel 3










But if Zap2It and other services don't have it, this is just a glitch.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know WKYC has confirmed all home games and away games in HD, but it's funny that neither guide has it listed that way and that the announcers arn't talking about it.
> 
> 
> Hope we're not in for a disappointment.



All the WKYC games will be in HD. Wanna bet a dinner or something on it?


----------



## jtscherne

As for Dish, they are now claiming technical problems as to why I'm not getting STO at this point. Of course, I haven't heard of anyone else not able to get the channel via DISH!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As for Dish, they are now claiming technical problems as to why I'm not getting STO at this point. Of course, I haven't heard of anyone else not able to get the channel via DISH!



It appears Dish Network is just one big technical problem.


----------



## jtscherne

Adelphia Bankruptcy Vote Delayed


By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 4/5/2006 11:36:00 AM


A U.S. bankruptcy court has moved the deadline for a vote on cable operator Adelphia's bankruptcy reorganization to 4 p.m. May 14.


The date had been Friday, April 6, for the vote.


The FCC is still reviewing the proposed divvying up of Adelphia between Time Warner and Comcast. All of those parties have talked with the FCC about coordinating its consideration of the deal with the bankruptcy process.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> All the WKYC games will be in HD. Wanna bet a dinner or something on it?



No, I think they will show it in HD too. I just wanted to get a little action going in here. Get a few folks fired up. Cause a little controversy.


But no, you gotta come along and spoil it for me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But no, you gotta come along and spoil it for me.



You pot-stirrer, you....


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All the WKYC games will be in HD. Wanna bet a dinner or something on it?



All of the home games will be in HD, be it on WKYC or STO. They're shooting with Sony HDC-910s.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All of the home games will be in HD, be it on WKYC or STO. They're shooting with Sony HDC-910s.




So, being the greedy bastards we HDTVers are, I had to wonder, how can WKYC do all those away games on their schedule, in various cities, and have HD facilities available, and STO cannot? i.e., why are we not going to see *any* away games in HD on STO?


In other words, I would think the expense WKYC would outlay over a mere 20 games, each game in a different city, setting up and tearing down for one game a week would be a much lower ROI than STO setting up for a 3 or 4 game series in a given town....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I knew that...I was just clarifying Hookbill's concern about Friday's home opener.



Well, they are predicting rain tomorrow. It doesn't look like it will get rained out at this point but there may be a delay.


But if the game does get rained out, they wouldn't be showing it in HD now, would they?


Maybe I should take Inundated up on the bet after all.


----------



## hookbill

What's going on with this board? How could I quote Inundated and have my post appear before his?


The time says Inundated posted at 4:22 pm TODAY. Impossible!


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, being the greedy bastards we HDTVers are, I had to wonder, how can WKYC do all those away games on their schedule, in various cities, and have HD facilities available, and STO cannot? i.e., why are we not going to see *any* away games in HD on STO?
> 
> 
> In other words, I would think the expense WKYC would outlay over a mere 20 games, each game in a different city, setting up and tearing down for one game a week would be a much lower ROI than STO setting up for a 3 or 4 game series in a given town....



They are probably taking advantage of the HD cameras they know are aready installed in those locations (most MLB ballparks had HD for at least part of last season, based on the games I was able to view on InHD.) They can put their own graphics over the raw game feed and, if a second control room is available, they can even mix their own feed from the available cameras.


----------



## joepic

The sound on the Indians STO game in NEO land was broken last night.


I called TWC this morning and they told me they had or were fixing it










I asked them about channel 55 going to 117 and they said it was staying at 55 but you may still see it at 117.


TWC has duplicated channels in the 700 - 714 range. The tech support person said they are planning a "family package" to be offered soon.


Finally I asked about software updates to my 8300 HD. I mentioned that Raleigh, NC TWC had new stuff. She said that "Raleigh is a first roll out for new software for NEO land". So, Raleigh find those bugs and lets get moving on the SATA PASSPORT software soon.










Let me edit this message with an "offical" e-mail response from TWC NEO rep:


"1. Animal Planet may be being aired on 117. A last minute decision was made not to move Animal Planet from our Expanded Basic tier to the Digital service, but our technical group had already put the change in motion and it was, for a period of time, physically moved. This has since been moved back to its original location, but may still be airing on the secondary channel. Animal Planet will officially remain on its old channel, so nothing is or will be officially on 117 at this time.


When I stated that there was no scheduled "replacement" on the Expanded service for Animal Planet, I meant that no other channel was taking its place when it moved. I am sorry you misunderstood this, and, fortunately, the move was avoided by a last minute deal so there was no need for a replacement channel.


2. The channels in the 700 series are part of our "Family Choice Tier". Family Choice is a new level of service which we are launching this spring. More information on Family Choice is available on our website at http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ilychoice.html .


3. These are simulcasts of channels we already carry in other places...grouped together so we may offer them in the Family Choice Tier. As you've obviously proven, all our regular digital customers can see these channels, but they are not there as part of the digital service and would not be listed on our regular lineups. If you wish to view those channels on the 700 series position that is fine, or you could also view them--fully digital--in their regular positions as well.


4. I apologize that the website has not been updated, but it is in process and we expect all of the lineups to be updated soon. The most up-to-date lineups, and the ones easiest to print, would be the pdf versions of our printed price and channel brochures, found on the "pricing and packaging" web page, at http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...r/pricing.html . "


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's going on with this board? How could I quote Inundated and have my post appear before his?
> 
> 
> The time says Inundated posted at 4:22 pm TODAY. Impossible!



I wondered the same thing. This morning after I posted my message, I noticed another message posted below it on the same topic with a posting time of Today at 4:22 p.m., almost 6 hours into the future! Now that message has disappeared... will it show up again after 4:22 p.m.?? Strange!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wondered the same thing. This morning after I posted my message, I noticed another message posted below it on the same topic with a posting time of Today at 4:22 p.m., almost 6 hours into the future! Now that message has disappeared... will it show up again after 4:22 p.m.?? Strange!



I "reported" it and apparently they deleted Inundateds message. Either that or Inundated deleted it himself.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West is not showing the STO HD channel 221 in the guide yet...


I am getting the analog STO channel 72 - just a black screen with STO's satellite feed "no signal" message on it. I wonder if this is why D* flips the switch before and after the game, so they don't get confused calls from customers thinking the "no signal" is a D* problem when it's really an STO issue...


----------



## Michael P 2341

E* puts up the "Season Ticket" card whenever there is no feed from STO. Tuesday evening they made a special card up becuase the EPG showed that there was a replay of the afternoon game during prime time, but it was unavailable. STO ran the replay immediately after the postgame show (saw it on COX), so it was over by 8 PM (the time that the replay was scheduled to START in the E* EPG).


OOPS "What we have here is failure to communicate."


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I "reported" it and apparently they deleted Inundateds message. Either that or Inundated deleted it himself.



Don't you realize yet that I'm all powerful and can travel ahead in time?










No, actually, look up at the top of each forum, for a message in huge subject print by David Bott, the owner of AVS Forum. One of his servers got out of sync and he had to delete a few hundred "future" messages (like mine)...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are probably taking advantage of the HD cameras they know are aready installed in those locations (most MLB ballparks had HD for at least part of last season, based on the games I was able to view on InHD.) They can put their own graphics over the raw game feed and, if a second control room is available, they can even mix their own feed from the available cameras.



And much to the same effect, STO's HD cameras at Jacobs Field this year help other broadcasters offer away games with the Indians in HD.


That still doesn't explain the Royals and Devil Rays being on WKYC's away schedule in HD, but they could just bring in cameras for a handful of games.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, being the greedy bastards we HDTVers are, I had to wonder, how can WKYC do all those away games on their schedule, in various cities, and have HD facilities available, and STO cannot? i.e., why are we not going to see *any* away games in HD on STO?



My understanding is that the _only_ games which will be in HD are the home games, regardless of whether they're STO or 'KYC games.


----------



## EricG

I'm not sure WHAT DirecTV paid for STO, but IF they only show a FEW games a week, with NO other programming, than The Indians should have PAID DirecTV !!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Four things:
> 
> 
> 1) I believe the DirecTV contract includes not only pre-game and post-game, but whatever other programming STO puts out. DirecTV was actually concerned, if you believe the various press reports, that STO didn't have enough programming to justify the amount of money that was being asked.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My understanding is that the _only_ games which will be in HD are the home games, regardless of whether they're STO or 'KYC games.



WKYC has frequently said that all 20 of its games will be in HD.

http://www.wkyc.com/sports/sports_ar...?storyid=50225 



> Quote:
> All 20 games on WKYC and the "over the air" network will be available in High Definition (HD) and feature a 30-minute pregame show and a post-game show immediately following each game.



Though oddly enough, this quote is not actually 100% accurate...as the non-WKYC over-air affiliates (WYFX/WLIO/WWHO/WICU-WSEE) won't be able to run the games in HD. WYFX/WKBN's engineer said that the feed to the affiliates via satellite will be only in SD.


But WKYC itself will air the games in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My understanding is that the _only_ games which will be in HD are the home games, regardless of whether they're STO or 'KYC games.



As Inundated stated WKYC is showing all games on HD home or away. There just isn't a whole bunch of games away.


So your understanding is incorrect.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure WHAT DirecTV paid for STO, but IF they only show a FEW games a week, with NO other programming, than The Indians should have PAID DirecTV !!



If I were a DTV subscriber I'd be calling them and asking wtf is up? Sometimes it's difficult to get them to recognize a problem. You don't like what the CSR says? Speak to a supervisor.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As Inundated stated WKYC is showing all games on HD home or away. There just isn't a whole bunch of games away.
> 
> 
> So your understanding is incorrect.



As expected, the Indians pre-game is in HD. Screen caps to follow.


(The 90 minute "special" before pre-game was not in HD, and was in WKYC's glorious stretch-o-vision...)


----------



## Inundated

Dugout shot, pre-game:











American flag unfurled onto the field, pre-game:


----------



## jtscherne

I'm getting only 5.0 Dolby Digital (no .1 subwoofer).


----------



## jtscherne

By the way, I noticed that Channel 798 on Adelphia shows the April 10th Cavs game as the next HD event, not mentioning Saturday's Indians game.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And much to the same effect, STO's HD cameras at Jacobs Field this year help other broadcasters offer away games with the Indians in HD.
> 
> 
> That still doesn't explain the Royals and Devil Rays being on WKYC's away schedule in HD, but they could just bring in cameras for a handful of games.




Not if they don't have those feeds available. Let alone cross conversion from 1080i to 720p.


It's not just bringing in a bunch of cameras. It's bringing in more expensive HD truck, HD transmission (sat truck), possibly renting an HD Tanberg encoder (fiber or satellite), etc...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not if they don't have those feeds available. Let alone cross conversion from 1080i to 720p.
> 
> 
> It's not just bringing in a bunch of cameras. It's bringing in more expensive HD truck, HD transmission (sat truck), possibly renting an HD Tanberg encoder (fiber or satellite), etc...



Well, as I said, I don't know what's all involved...I was just speculating that the presence of built-in HD cameras and some infrastructure helps in making away games easier to put on.


That said, it appears that whatever else needs to be done (as you describe), WKYC has committed to do this year for the away games.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By the way, I noticed that Channel 798 on Adelphia shows the April 10th Cavs game as the next HD event, not mentioning Saturday's Indians game.



Well, for what it's worth, Adelphia 798 is replaying the WKYC game from earlier today...the pre-game's on now, and it's in HD. So I assume it's just that they haven't updated that text.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, as I said, I don't know what's all involved...I was just speculating that the presence of built-in HD cameras and some infrastructure helps in making away games easier to put on.
> 
> 
> That said, it appears that whatever else needs to be done (as you describe), WKYC has committed to do this year for the away games.



They pulled it off, but it certainly didn't make it any easier for the Minnesota (SD) feed, or anyone else coming in there.


----------



## HDTD

Does Adelphia just go to black/grey during local commercial breaks on STO HD? I thought I lost my signal, then turned to 179 and found it in SD, then when the game came back from break it was on the HD channel.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As Inundated stated WKYC is showing all games on HD home or away. There just isn't a whole bunch of games away.
> 
> 
> So your understanding is incorrect.



Thank you, Phil. Gonna go back to my source again and ask for more details.


CK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does Adelphia just go to black/grey during local commercial breaks on STO HD? I thought I lost my signal, then turned to 179 and found it in SD, then when the game came back from break it was on the HD channel.



STO HD on 798 has been showing the game complete with breaks - I assume the same spots that ran on WKYC earlier, though I haven't kept track.


Unless it ran earlier this evening, 17 is not running the game...only 179 and 598.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They pulled it off, but it certainly didn't make it any easier for the Minnesota (SD) feed, or anyone else coming in there.



You've kinda danced around this, but I'd like the answer to a question -


Does the fact that Jacobs Field is set up for HD in-house (for STO and WKYC) make it easier for other broadcasters doing HD feeds? Not the SD stuff, but the HD. Conversely, is it easier for WKYC to do an HD away game when going into Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park, where the local broadcaster can do HD?


i.e. - can they pick up camera feeds, etc.?


I realize that WKYC and other incoming away broadcasters may need to bring in HD production trucks and the like...I just wonder if the other stuff (built-in HD cameras, feeds that could be shared) makes any difference for an away TV broadcast team coming into an HD-equipped ballpark.


I won't bring it up again, because I'm starting to look like an idiot on this topic.


----------



## Inundated

While we're talking about the Indians' replay (WKYC HD replay on STO) - I'm noticing both on my Fusion tuner and upstairs that the sound is about a half-second ahead of the picture.


I'm not noticing the sound problem on Adelphia 179 (digital SD), and didn't notice it on WKYC-DT in HD live earlier today. Only on 798's replay...


----------



## hookbill

After all was said in done would you believe I hardly saw any of the game? I decided to teach my wife a lesson so I went out and bought some new sound equipment. I was so busy setting that up and trying to get my Harmony remote to work with it I hardly even got to look at the actual game.


I did however get to watch the Dodgers and Phillies on MLB Extra Innings and I'm quite please with my improved sound set up.


Oh, and as far as my wife goes? Well apparently she set up some type of email notice if anything over 200 bucks goes on the debit card and she busted me about 45 minutes after I got home.


Now I love technology as much as the next guy, but shouldn't this be illegal?


----------



## cseajs

Did anyone else have any audio problems on OTA WKYC tonight? During Las Vegas I was picking up another audio feed under the show audio. It ended up being the audio from the Cleveland Indians game. I turned another tv to STO and the crowd audio on STO matched perfectly to the background audio I was getting on WKYC.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO HD on 798 has been showing the game complete with breaks - I assume the same spots that ran on WKYC earlier, though I haven't kept track.
> 
> 
> Unless it ran earlier this evening, 17 is not running the game...only 179 and 598.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've kinda danced around this, but I'd like the answer to a question -
> 
> 
> Does the fact that Jacobs Field is set up for HD in-house (for STO and WKYC) make it easier for other broadcasters doing HD feeds? Not the SD stuff, but the HD. Conversely, is it easier for WKYC to do an HD away game when going into Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park, where the local broadcaster can do HD?
> 
> 
> i.e. - can they pick up camera feeds, etc.?
> 
> 
> I realize that WKYC and other incoming away broadcasters may need to bring in HD production trucks and the like...I just wonder if the other stuff (built-in HD cameras, feeds that could be shared) makes any difference for an away TV broadcast team coming into an HD-equipped ballpark.
> 
> 
> I won't bring it up again, because I'm starting to look like an idiot on this topic.



True, Jacob's Field is better for HD broadcasters in the sense that the home show offers several share cameras in HD, and yes even the cross conversion to an ESPN show or other 720p show still looks great. So what's this mean to us at home? If ESPN comes in and say hires five camera operators, but they can share several of the basic angles, it opens up broadcasters, both home, away and network to more angles. Like a cool low home, or tight center. Personally, I love the addition of the camera on the edge of the Pepsi Porch on the left field foul pole looking in.


Is Jacob's Field now wired better? They're really using the same wires they've used since the ballpark opened in 1994, just pumping an HD signal down it to a tiny truck that then fibers those signals back to WKYC. So it's not that the stadium now offers any extra wiring.


Yes, it maybe easier to do a Fenway/Yankee show because they offer more shares of HD cameras, but that really only helps the tape room, because you're so afraid of getting whipped pan by the other broadcaster when you take their camera live. So in one respect it can hinder the show, because now they have so many cams, and not enough tape to isolate it to, that you may lose a great replay of action because the producer wanted to try some toy robo camera just because they don't normally have it.


What I love about all this is that it's just another broadcaster added to the list that's all HD (at home), and it sends the message throughout that league that it's time to do HD. Look at how FSN Ohio scrambled to put HD games on the Cavs after the Indians owner said he was never able to see his team in HD (though I think he forgot the handful of times ESPN HD was in town)


----------



## Telosian

Message to cseajs - So that's what that was! I heard it coming out of my rear speakers (even on commercials) and thought it was supposed to be people "buzz" in the casino, I had no idea it was actually people "buzz" at a baseball game! Vegas is usually a very nice and discrete 5.1 mix with dialog dead on center, music L and R, and atmosphere in the surrounds. Now I know they somehow legalized Vegas gambling at Jacobs Field.

Message to Hookbill- So woddya get?


----------



## JJkizak

Watching the Indians OTA in HD was just fine except for the maybe 8 db low volume compared to the other channels. The Masters was perfect.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Message to Hookbill- So woddya get?



I picked up a pair of Polk R20 speakers for 50 bucks and bought a new amplifier, a Sony STR-De698. My Pioneer was a "complete" home theater system but it didn't have enough juice. I can rock the house no with this puppy. Plus it really compliments my Acoustic Research Wireless Speakers, I get a great deal less noise because it's powerful enough that I don't have to crank the speakers up as high to get a decent volume.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Anybody else notice that the HD feed was sans-commercials?







At least during the 8th and 9th innings when I got home (I saw the beginning of the game in glorius analog SD in a waiting room). There were commercials on the analog channel 3, but I saw none on the digital. For those of you who watched the entire game on WKYC-DT was the entire game like this?


When I got home and fired up the 921 the first thing I saw was a SportsTime Ohio logo and the live audio from Jacobs Field. I saw this happen at least twice during the breaks between the top and bottom of the 8th and the top of the 9th.


I did catch the SD replay on E* ch 421 (and recorded it on the 921)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> True, Jacob's Field is better for HD broadcasters in the sense that the home show offers several share cameras in HD, and yes even the cross conversion to an ESPN show or other 720p show still looks great. So what's this mean to us at home? If ESPN comes in and say hires five camera operators, but they can share several of the basic angles, it opens up broadcasters, both home, away and network to more angles. Like a cool low home, or tight center. Personally, I love the addition of the camera on the edge of the Pepsi Porch on the left field foul pole looking in.
> 
> 
> Is Jacob's Field now wired better? They're really using the same wires they've used since the ballpark opened in 1994, just pumping an HD signal down it to a tiny truck that then fibers those signals back to WKYC. So it's not that the stadium now offers any extra wiring.
> 
> 
> Yes, it maybe easier to do a Fenway/Yankee show because they offer more shares of HD cameras, but that really only helps the tape room, because you're so afraid of getting whipped pan by the other broadcaster when you take their camera live. So in one respect it can hinder the show, because now they have so many cams, and not enough tape to isolate it to, that you may lose a great replay of action because the producer wanted to try some toy robo camera just because they don't normally have it.
> 
> 
> What I love about all this is that it's just another broadcaster added to the list that's all HD (at home), and it sends the message throughout that league that it's time to do HD. Look at how FSN Ohio scrambled to put HD games on the Cavs after the Indians owner said he was never able to see his team in HD (though I think he forgot the handful of times ESPN HD was in town)




I don't believe there is much sharing between RSN's and ESPN of stadium cameras. Anybody who has been to a game at Jacobs Field should notice that there are always two cameras in each camera bay. I believe the reason for this is due to the fact that each network has their own director who calls the shots. Say that network A's director asked the 3 base camera to do a wide shot down the foul line while network B's director wants a close up of an outfielder. If the camera was shared that would be impossible. "No cameraman can serve two masters"







There are probably union restrictions as well.


Now that HD has arrived, all the camera bays have to be outfitted with a pair of HD cameras (just as today there are a pair of SD cameras).


----------



## Michael P 2341

If WKYC carries an away game in HD then STO should be able to carry the rest of that series in HD as well. I havn't seen the schedule (to see when and where WKYC will carry an away game), however I'm willing to bet that STO might be willing to take that option with the rest of a series. If Fridays become the WKYC nite, then forget STO carrying the rest of that series, if the Saturday game is in the afternoon (if we can get it at all) it will be on FOX.


After watching the home opener, it appears that the WKYC games will have an identical look and feel to the "cable" games (same graphics, same announcers etc.).


----------



## jtscherne

Except that Jim Donovan won't be doing any cable STO games.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEWS chief engineer is John Workman.



John Workman no longer works at WEWS. Neither does Jim B. They have been gone for a year or so.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is Jacob's Field now wired better? They're really using the same wires they've used since the ballpark opened in 1994, just pumping an HD signal down it to a tiny truck that then fibers those signals back to WKYC. So it's not that the stadium now offers any extra wiring.



They pulled a mess of new fibers and other cabling from the camera positions to the aggregation point. I do not believe these are intended to be pool cameras.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm getting only 5.0 Dolby Digital (no .1 subwoofer).



My new receiver is showing me 3/2....or 5.0, I'm not seeing the .1 either.


----------



## k2rj

Anyone else notice the intermittent loss of audio (sync?) followed by a funky digital noise after resumption of audio? Didn't yet check to see if it is also happening on the SD feed or not...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice the intermittent loss of audio (sync?) followed by a funky digital noise after resumption of audio? Didn't yet check to see if it is also happening on the SD feed or not...



Yes, it's very annoying!


----------



## paule123

D* has screwed up this afternoon's game. Just tuned in to see STO Channel 657 is there, but blacked out and has "call ext. 721 to order message", dammit...


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice the intermittent loss of audio (sync?) followed by a funky digital noise after resumption of audio? Didn't yet check to see if it is also happening on the SD feed or not...



Irritating isn't it.










Just going by memory, it seems to me that the STO HD feed looks better (a bit sharper with truer colors) than yesterday's WKYC HD. A side by side comparison could easily prove me wrong, but that's my impression.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D* has screwed up this afternoon's game. Just tuned in to see STO Channel 657 is there, but blacked out and has "call ext. 721 to order message", dammit...



Tell them that if they keep screwing up you will switch to cable. Tell them all about the Series 3 TiVo coming out soon.


They probably will at least give you a credit or something.


----------



## rlockshin

Can someone please explain fusion and QAM tuner.

Are you saying to take QAM tuner and hook Adelphia feed to it and I will pick uo HD channels?

I watch HD thru DTV

Thanks


----------



## Inundated

I'm also getting the very occasional one second audio breaks on STO's HD feed (Adelphia 798). Just happened again in a commercial break. It shows up about once every 2-3 minutes or so (guess). I hear no odd noises when it resumes, it just resumes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone please explain fusion and QAM tuner.
> 
> Are you saying to take QAM tuner and hook Adelphia feed to it and I will pick uo HD channels?



The Fusion tuner cards for PC and the USB version (which I have) have QAM tuning, which means they pick up the standard cable companies use. A lot of stuff is encrypted, so you won't see it (including channels in the HD tier like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD), but a number of things are in the open.


Among them - all the network affiliate HD feeds that Adelphia carries (NBC/ABC/FOX/CBS/PBS, i.e. the HD/DT versions of 3/5/8/19/25), and some surprises, like Discovery HD and the "HD Bonus" channel (local sports like STO's Indians games and FSN Ohio HD's Cavs games).


It can't really be guaranteed that you'll always get that stuff in the clear, but the channels are listed as "Broadcast HD" for now. Reportedly, federal law requires Adelphia to send the DT versions of 3/5/8/19/25 in the clear, but I've never seen the cite for that...


You pick up all this stuff even with the most basic Adelphia subscription, as far as I know... it doesn't require an HD Pack subscription. But then again, with an HD box, you should pick it up without that, either...(3/5/8/19/25, Discovery HD, HD Bonus)


----------



## Inundated

Those getting the one second audio breaks on STO's HD feed - are you all Adelphia folks? Or is it on other systems?


And this may be on my end, but the sound synchronization is still a BIT off...not as bad as the STO replay of the WKYC game Friday night, but about a fraction of a second off.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice the intermittent loss of audio (sync?) followed by a funky digital noise after resumption of audio? Didn't yet check to see if it is also happening on the SD feed or not...



Glad to know I am not the only one who heard this. I thought the problem might be my setup. I don't subscribe to digital cable, I'm using an LG QAM tuner.


The good news is that STO HD is "in the clear", at least for now. I hope they can clean up the audio. I tried listening to WTAM while watching, but the video was too far behind the audio. I couldn't deal with the announcer calling the strikeout before the ball made it to the plate.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those getting the one second audio breaks on STO's HD feed - are you all Adelphia folks? Or is it on other systems?
> 
> 
> And this may be on my end, but the sound synchronization is still a BIT off...not as bad as the STO replay of the WKYC game Friday night, but about a fraction of a second off.



Yes, Adelphia in Lyndhurst.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Glad to know I am not the only one who heard this. I thought the problem might be my setup. I don't subscribe to digital cable, I'm using an LG QAM tuner.



I'm using a Fusion USB QAM tuner, but I also hear the sound problem upstairs off of my SA8300 HD DVR.


And it appears 798 is designed to be "in the clear"...Adelphia's lineup lists it as "Broadcast HD", along with Discovery HD (also in the clear) and the network affiliates:



> Quote:
> 798
> 
> HD BONUS FEATURES HD Bonus Features Broadcast HD (High Definition)



Who knows if this will change whenever TWC takes us over, tho...


----------



## Brian26339




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D* has screwed up this afternoon's game. Just tuned in to see STO Channel 657 is there, but blacked out and has "call ext. 721 to order message", dammit...



I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with D* this afternoon. I went thru the usual "unplug the receiver..plug it back in....do you see the channel now?" routine. They finally got it to show up on one of my three receivers.Then they bumped me up to level 2 where they tried to convince me that it was supposed to be blacked out and that I wasnt supposed to be getting the game on the one receiver that I was receiving it on.


I asked them why STO would even turn on the cameras if the game was blacked out to the only area that STO reaches. They really didn't have an answer for that one.


To make matters worse, I had to call them back as 2 of my three receivers weren't getting any channels after I got off the phone with them.










They seem to be treating it like a MLB EI game. Cutting off the pre and post game and blacking out the game in the home markets. Hopefully they'll figure this out pretty quick. This was the second time I've called them about this problem.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm also getting the very occasional one second audio breaks on STO's HD feed (Adelphia 798). Just happened again in a commercial break. It shows up about once every 2-3 minutes or so (guess). I hear no odd noises when it resumes, it just resumes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Fusion tuner cards for PC and the USB version (which I have) have QAM tuning, which means they pick up the standard cable companies use. A lot of stuff is encrypted, so you won't see it (including channels in the HD tier like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD), but a number of things are in the open.
> 
> 
> Among them - all the network affiliate HD feeds that Adelphia carries (NBC/ABC/FOX/CBS/PBS, i.e. the HD/DT versions of 3/5/8/19/25), and some surprises, like Discovery HD and the "HD Bonus" channel (local sports like STO's Indians games and FSN Ohio HD's Cavs games).
> 
> 
> It can't really be guaranteed that you'll always get that stuff in the clear, but the channels are listed as "Broadcast HD" for now. Reportedly, federal law requires Adelphia to send the DT versions of 3/5/8/19/25 in the clear, but I've never seen the cite for that...
> 
> 
> You pick up all this stuff even with the most basic Adelphia subscription, as far as I know... it doesn't require an HD Pack subscription. But then again, with an HD box, you should pick it up without that, either...(3/5/8/19/25, Discovery HD, HD Bonus)




Is there a box that just takes the cable feed and plugs into a HD ready tv and where do you buy it?

Thanks


----------



## danton3

I apologize if someone has answered this - -but this is a long thread and i dont want to sit down and read the whole thing


has DIRECTV announced the day the us clevelanders will get our LOCAL HD channels?? i heard it was this month -- but no definitive date?/ can anyone shed some light??


----------



## Brian26339




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danton3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> has DIRECTV announced the day the us clevelanders will get our LOCAL HD channels?? i heard it was this month -- but no definitive date?/ can anyone shed some light??



Not that I've seen. The last thing I heard was the next group of markets were supposed to roll out in the April to June time frame. I hadn't heard that were were actually supposed to be in April, just that we were in the next group.


I may wait for the next gen "slimline" dish anyway. The current mpeg4 dish doesn't really blend in that well and I can get all the channel ota anyway.


Sorry, this probably doesn't help much.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there a box that just takes the cable feed and plugs into a HD ready tv and where do you buy it?
> 
> Thanks



I believe some of the LG external tuners do QAM.


Look for some examples here:

http://us.lge.com/products/category/...%20video.jhtml 


Here's an example of one, the 4200:

http://us.lge.com/products/model/det...ST-4200A.jhtml 


I have no idea who sells them, tho.


----------



## Inundated

Curious - are there any of you DirecTV folks in the heart of the market (Cleveland/Akron, etc.) who COULD watch the Indians on STO this afternoon without invoking customer service?


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Curious - are there any of you DirecTV folks in the heart of the market (Cleveland/Akron, etc.) who COULD watch the Indians on STO this afternoon without invoking customer service?




Live in Bath and game was there with no calls to customer service. Same for other games


----------



## Brian26339




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Live in Bath and game was there with no calls to customer service. Same for other games



Really...that's interesting. I think you may be farther away from Cleveland than I am and it sure didn't show up in Aurora...at least not at my house.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe there is much sharing between RSN's and ESPN of stadium cameras. Anybody who has been to a game at Jacobs Field should notice that there are always two cameras in each camera bay. I believe the reason for this is due to the fact that each network has their own director who calls the shots. Say that network A's director asked the 3 base camera to do a wide shot down the foul line while network B's director wants a close up of an outfielder. If the camera was shared that would be impossible. "No cameraman can serve two masters"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are probably union restrictions as well.
> 
> 
> Now that HD has arrived, all the camera bays have to be outfitted with a pair of HD cameras (just as today there are a pair of SD cameras).




Since I work as a technical director for ESPN I can vouch that there are times we share feeds, all that means is that the RSN's video signal comes into the truck, tape room and switcher, with no communications with the operator, you take what you get, and there's no dueling directors. The FSN RSN's are doing these "dual feeds" where they share many more resources all out of one truck, and there's still not dueling communications, but there are green tally lights to the shared camera that says the other feed is using your images.


Some side-by-side cameras are Jumbotron. Other times you'll still take a feed to get a look from the camera closest to the dugout since the league regulates who gets those camera positions.


The camera bays didn't have to be outfitted for HD because most trucks use the same triax cable to provide an SD or HD signal to a truck.


There are no union restrictions to shared feeds, because the networks work that into their contract. Also, ESPN is non-union as are STO and FSN here in Cleveland. Union contracts in sports TV deal more with healthcare, overtime, pay for running extra equipment or working a pre and post game show.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian26339* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They seem to be treating it like a MLB EI game. Cutting off the pre and post game and blacking out the game in the home markets. Hopefully they'll figure this out pretty quick. This was the second time I've called them about this problem.



Hmmmm...seems I remember someone else saying that very same thing.......


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian26339* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really...that's interesting. I think you may be farther away from Cleveland than I am and it sure didn't show up in Aurora...at least not at my house.



Wow. I'm right on the Aurora/Bainbridge border and I got the whole game, bad sound and all.


Of course I use cable, not Direct TV. And I would NEVER suggest switching to Adelphia, but all that crap they gave you would certainly get me thinking.


----------



## Argee

Has anyone tried to contact SPORTSTIME OHIO about this DIRECTV thing? No pre/post game and then no Saturday game carried. What the heck is going on?

If not for TIVO I would bolt to ADELPHIA in a second.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to contact SPORTSTIME OHIO about this DIRECTV thing? No pre/post game and then no Saturday game carried. What the heck is going on?
> 
> If not for TIVO I would bolt to ADELPHIA in a second.



I came here just to say this and you beat me to the punch.










Yes contact STO and do it before todays game. Why get cheated again? If they are not showing the games they are in breach of contract. Let STO take care of this.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to contact SPORTSTIME OHIO about this DIRECTV thing? No pre/post game and then no Saturday game carried. What the heck is going on?
> 
> If not for TIVO I would bolt to ADELPHIA in a second.



Here's the problem - there is NO contact for STO - I can't find one. Hell, I can't even find a media contact on the official indians.com website. No front office email contacts of any kind. STO has a generic email form connected to the "Ask STO" button here:
http://www.sportstimeohio.com/index.jsp 


... but it's the crappy form that MLB.com uses to enter sweepstakes and such (i.e., why do they need to know my birthdate??)


----------



## paule123

Update: I just called the Indians front office, and talked to a very nice gentleman there who is VERY aware of the DirecTV problem. He said yesterday was not a good day for them -- they got a number of calls yesterday complaining about the D* screwup. He urged us to call DirecTV and complain. I got the impression D* is playing the blame game and saying it was STO's fault when in fact it was not.


----------



## rlb

Just talked to D*. Customer Service rep said I should have received the game. She said they probably had some problem. But, also got good news. She read all of her internal e-mails regarding STO and said beginning May we would get the Indian games in HD. She didn't know what channel would be used for carrying the HD. Hope she is right!


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian26339* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that I've seen. The last thing I heard was the next group of markets were supposed to roll out in the April to June time frame. I hadn't heard that were were actually supposed to be in April, just that we were in the next group.
> 
> 
> I may wait for the next gen "slimline" dish anyway. The current mpeg4 dish doesn't really blend in that well and I can get all the channel ota anyway.
> 
> 
> Sorry, this probably doesn't help much.



I've previously heard that it would happen in May.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> She didn't know what channel would be used for carrying the HD. Hope she is right!



Probably when they start the local's in HD. So we'll be able to get them in HD on KYC, but it will require $500+ in equipment upgrades.


----------



## rlb

Not that I think about it, you are probably right about HD being available when we get locals HD via D*. What they will do is make a "spot beam" available for the local market (STO) like they do for the other HD locals (i.e., 3-1, 5-1, 19-1, etc.). From what I've read though, it won't cost $500. You will be able to trade-in your current STB and have the new dish installed for something like $99. I'll do that for the small HD set in the den; however, until they have a replacement for the HD-Tivo I won't swap STB/PVR that supports the 60" SXRD in the family room.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update: I just called the Indians front office, and talked to a very nice gentleman there who is VERY aware of the DirecTV problem. He said yesterday was not a good day for them -- they got a number of calls yesterday complaining about the D* screwup. He urged us to call DirecTV and complain. I got the impression D* is playing the blame game and saying it was STO's fault when in fact it was not.



But you've done that! So why don't they do something. They should want you to receive the game as much as you want it.


If it happens again today I call the Tribes front office again and let them know that DTV is not taking care of business. Tell them you've done what you can, they need to get involved.


----------



## VSTAR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cseajs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anyone else have any audio problems on OTA WKYC tonight? During Las Vegas I was picking up another audio feed under the show audio. It ended up being the audio from the Cleveland Indians game. I turned another tv to STO and the crowd audio on STO matched perfectly to the background audio I was getting on WKYC.




Yes I have Adelphia and had the same problem. I also noticed it last night while watching conviction. It would have to be a WKYC problem if you are getting it over the air and I am getting it from Adelphia. It was driving me nuts.


----------



## Brian26339

Well, it looks like all our ranting yesterday at Directv must have done some good. I am getting the game now as well as the pregame show earlier on channel 657 as advertised.


Go Tribe!


----------



## jtscherne

STO-HD on Adelphia came on 10 minutes into the pre-game. Audio dropouts are still happening, plus it's still only 5.0, instead of 5.1.


The sound is good though. Listen carefully when they introduce Grady Sizemore. The higher-pitched cheering that usually comes with him is very clear...


----------



## mrblond128




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just talked to D*. Customer Service rep said I should have received the game. She said they probably had some problem. But, also got good news. She read all of her internal e-mails regarding STO and said beginning May we would get the Indian games in HD. She didn't know what channel would be used for carrying the HD. Hope she is right!



You must have spoke to the same D* rep I spoke with. I originally called because, as others, I was not receiving the STO signal at all. After resetting my receiver manually at the box, and D* resetting it at their end, STO came in. I only missed the 1st inning.


While on the phone, I asked why I was not receiving the STO HD feed. The rep then read me the STO/D* press release. After I asked the question again, she put me on hold for a minute and came back with the answer "sometime in May." I asked if it coincided with the launch of HD locals in the Cleveland market, after she checked around for another minute she responded with "no, HD locals in Cleveland are scheduled for June 26."


I explained to this rep that I could switch to cable today and watch STO is HD immediately. She responded with "yeah, but satellite is better then cable." After I responded with "Not if you're a Cleveland Indians fan looking for customer support," I decided to come on here and see if anyone else heard of the "May" availability of STO/HD and June 26th date for HD locals. I didn't have the energy to argue anymore, but it looks like I'll have to call back since no one seems to have a straight answer.


I've only been with D* a month and they've frustrated me more in this time then 10+ years worth of cable service.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian26339* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, it looks like all our ranting yesterday at Directv must have done some good. I am getting the game now as well as the pregame show earlier on channel 657 as advertised.
> 
> 
> Go Tribe!



It's still blacked out for me. Time to make ANOTHER phone call to D*...


----------



## Argee

Nothing on DirecTV here. I called and they tell me only zip codes that start 441 are valid EVENTHOUGH Sportstime Ohio lists mine 44266 (Ravenna) as valid What a F%^$#$ mess. We have no number to call Sportstime ohio to find what the heck is up. We get Cleveland locals via DTV live only 25 or so miles out of Cleveland and cannot get the games?


----------



## Inundated

A relative of mine in suburban Akron with DirecTV got yesterday's game, but is not getting today...and he got the whole "ZIP code" list thing...the CSR said the "list of ZIP codes is opposite from what it should be", which is a pile of doggie doo.


If a 442xx ZIP code can't see it, not to mention Paule123's in Shaker Heights, who can!??!


I wish I could do more for him...I just told him to keep calling and playing "CSR roulette"... hopefully he'll find one who will activate it for him.


----------



## ZManCartFan

For what it's worth, it's coming in just fine here in Medina (44256).


----------



## Inundated

Just got off the phone with the Indians ticket office (216-420-HITS). The young man who answered the phone there, when I asked him if they were aware of the problem, said, and I quote, "oh, yeah! We are"...


He says they've gotten hundreds of calls from folks within the region that should be getting Indians games. He said Jim Liberatore (STO boss) was actually standing in the phone banks just a few minutes ago and he's well aware of the incoming calls and the fact that DirecTV has apparently screwed up...


----------



## paule123

I called D* and after a good 10 minute wait (hit "0" to bypass the stupid voice activated attendant) and spoke with a CSR who seemed pretty sharp. He was quite aware of STO problems (I wonder if all the anrgy Clevelanders are clogging up the phone lines







)


He did some typing on his end (maybe he "hit" the box) and then he suggested pulling the access card and letting the box reset and wait for the channels to reload. Unfortunately I am watching remotely from my Slingbox and am not physically there to pull the card...


----------



## Inundated

My Indians' fan relative in the Akron area just hit the right number in CSR Roulette, and he has the game now at home...though he has to now figure out if his business is getting it!


I don't think he said he had to pull the card, physically...


----------



## DaMavs

STO was down for me on D* as well today so I called & after talking with the first two reps was actually contemplating Adelphia as the first one told me that I had to get the $99 premium package to get STO (which their web site agrees with) when I started to complain she transferred me to programming. They claimed that I couldn't get it at all, despite being in Bainbridge. I quickly got fed up with her & asked for retention figuring that they could at least compensate me for my anger & that they tend to have a clue.


The retention guy assures me that I should be getting it and that they're having difficulties because it's a new channel and their system was having issues today. He was able to reset everything remotely & get it up and running in ~5 minutes and I didn't even have to reboot either HD-Tivo which takes forever.


So my advice is just call retention immediately or transfer there quickly - they're at least competent unlike the other CSRs I talked with.


After we got the STO up and running, I asked about HD and he indicated May as well. He seemed to think they'd be on in the 90s, but I did lead him into that answer...


----------



## Inundated

Another problem...has anyone with DirecTV seen this?


My relative not only has DirecTV at home, he's got it at his business. The people who work there tell him that STO/657 is showing up with "Searching for satellite" on the screen.


However, the receivers at his business are otherwise getting all the other channels with no problem.


Is it even POSSIBLE for one channel to be this way and the others not? He says he has the same kind of dish at work as he does at home (which is now getting STO). I haven't been able to figure out which satellite STO is on, vs. other channels, and have no idea why he'd have this problem at the business.


----------



## Argee

Tom Hamilton just announced on the radio that the Indians are aware of the DirecTV problem and they are working on it. Good to know there are so so many faithful tribe fans out there!


----------



## DaMavs

The only time I can recall seeing "Searching for Satellite" on one channel while I'm getting others is if it's rain fade where I'll lose some nationals, but the locals will still come in as they're spot-beamed and are the last to fade. Obviously not analogous to this issue though.


Anyone else seeing the "poor quality signal" graphic on STO during the commercial break just before the top of the 7th? It seemed to be on the regular feed rather than a D* thing, but...


----------



## mrblond128




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only time I can recall seeing "Searching for Satellite" on one channel while I'm getting others is if it's rain fade where I'll lose some nationals, but the locals will still come in as they're spot-beamed and are the last to fade. Obviously not analogous to this issue though.
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing the "poor quality signal" graphic on STO during the commercial break just before the top of the 7th? It seemed to be on the regular feed rather than a D* thing, but...



Yeah, I'm seeing it too. I agree, looks like STO message, not a D* message


----------



## hookbill

I guess I shouldn't complain at all but the sound break ups all through the game are still annoying. So I have two questions:


1. Is this just an Adelphia issue or is it a STO problem?

2. Where is the .1? What's going on with that? Is that the cause of the sound drop off?


OK, more then two questions, but two issues.


----------



## DCSholtis

Sound issues were on D* too


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sound issues were on D* too



On the SD broadcast on 657? Did you hear the one second drop? I didn't hear it on either the analog Adelphia feed (17) or SD digital cable feed (179), only on 798 in HD.


----------



## Inundated

Looks like WKYC/3 may become the second HD news operation in Cleveland, and soon:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...hdtv-wkyc.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like WKYC/3 may become the second HD news operation in Cleveland, and soon:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...hdtv-wkyc.html



I like WKYC news, so this is good "news" for me. I can't stand FOX's news which really has become nothing more then a place to talk about American Idol.


Added: I'm looking at WKYC news right now and if that isn't HD then I need an eye exam. Looks good to me, not stretch o vision.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Added: I'm looking at WKYC news right now and if that isn't HD then I need an eye exam. Looks good to me, not stretch o vision.



Go get that exam, then...it's in stretch-o-vision.










If I dump into 4:3 mode on my Fusion box, it fits perfectly and the picture is not QUITE HD. It's pretty good for SD, and some of the video looks very clear (in particular, the interviews with the Indians players/manager), but it's not HD yet.


Watching on WKYC-DT via Adelphia.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like WKYC/3 may become the second HD news operation in Cleveland, and soon:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...hdtv-wkyc.html




I too have heard that an HD upgrade is in the works for WKYC news. They should be on the air in May (just in time for sweeps). Not sure how extensive, but I know that a big push for it came from STO, and them wanting to do the their pregame show in full HD out of WKYC's studios.


I'd love to see HD news gathering. Fox 8's HD is nice, but it's really only the studio cameras.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Go get that exam, then...it's in stretch-o-vision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I dump into 4:3 mode on my Fusion box, it fits perfectly and the picture is not QUITE HD. It's pretty good for SD, and some of the video looks very clear (in particular, the interviews with the Indians players/manager), but it's not HD yet.
> 
> 
> Watching on WKYC-DT via Adelphia.



I went out on a limb with that comment. After I said it I started second guessing myself.


Give me a break, I'm 53 years old.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's pretty good for SD, and some of the video looks very clear (in particular, the interviews with the Indians players/manager), but it's not HD yet.



if it was shot at the stadium with their HD cameras, it makes sense that it would look clearer, even when viewed in SD. The SD image is effectively being oversampled and that's a good thing - less aliasing and visual twittering.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I too have heard that an HD upgrade is in the works for WKYC news. They should be on the air in May (just in time for sweeps). Not sure how extensive, but I know that a big push for it came from STO, and them wanting to do the their pregame show in full HD out of WKYC's studios.
> 
> 
> I'd love to see HD news gathering. Fox 8's HD is nice, but it's really only the studio cameras.



There was an interview in a trade magazine with an engineering type at WJW (I don't know if it's the same guy who's posted a couple of times here)...they're eventually going to go "whole hog" with HD, right down to the commercial production and SkyFOX.


I saw WKYC's Andy Baskin (ex-FSN Ohio type) doing a studio pregame for today's STO game, but unfortunately didn't get to see if it was in HD. The article linked in the blog entry above says the entire STO operation (including games) is being switched out of a dedicated HD control room at WKYC, and that the cameras are being backhauled to WKYC via fiber.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> if it was shot at the stadium with their HD cameras, it makes sense that it would look clearer, even when viewed in SD. The SD image is effectively being oversampled and that's a good thing - less aliasing and visual twittering.



To me, it looked much like FOX 8's pre-HD period...their in-studio shots always looked really good even before they went HD, because they had those HD studio cameras a full TWO YEARS before they made the on-air conversion to HD in the news studio.


Oddly enough, the footage shot at Jacobs Field in the locker room looked clearer than WKYC's studio. This is all on WKYC-DT.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went out on a limb with that comment. After I said it I started second guessing myself.
> 
> 
> Give me a break, I'm 53 years old.



Well, as noted, the in-locker room interview footage looked pretty good, so I don't blame you.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I saw WKYC's Andy Baskin (ex-FSN Ohio type) doing a studio pregame for today's STO game, but unfortunately didn't get to see if it was in HD. The article linked in the blog entry above says the entire STO operation (including games) is being switched out of a dedicated HD control room at WKYC, and that the cameras are being backhauled to WKYC via fiber.



Baskin was in SD with HD pillars. All the highlights were edited in the SD world with side pillars too. Only HD elements in the STO pregame were graphics and any live shots they took from the Jake. Still pretty cool how they integrate the HD and SD worlds pretty seamlessly.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Baskin was in SD with HD pillars. All the highlights were edited in the SD world with side pillars too. Only HD elements in the STO pregame were graphics and any live shots they took from the Jake. Still pretty cool how they integrate the HD and SD worlds pretty seamlessly.



I suspect a lot of this will change when they get the news operation up in HD...and the pre-game and highlights will be in HD. The in-game replays are already in HD, and they come out of the WKYC-based remote control room for STO...


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I suspect a lot of this will change when they get the news operation up in HD...and the pre-game and highlights will be in HD. The in-game replays are already in HD, and they come out of the WKYC-based remote control room for STO...



Yeah, WKYC's stuck with about a third in HD and the other two thirds in SD, but compared to all the other stations in town, they're way ahead of the game for complete HD conversion. When they go online I suspect they'll eclipse Fox 8 HD.


I'd love to see how long it'll take WEWS, and maybe someday probably never, WOIO.


----------



## bassguitarman

I had a lot of OTA dropouts on WOIO channel 19 during the Masters yesterday


----------



## snagy

i also had a lot of drop outs, but about 4:30 seemed fine. at one point 19-1 had a frozen picture of the hole 12 on the screen, while Directv 19 was going normal. Bainbridge area.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Anyone else seeing the "poor quality signal" graphic on STO during the commercial break just before the top of the 7th? It seemed to be on the regular feed rather than a D* thing, but...



I saw this too - on Dish Network. every time there was an audio dropout, the "poor quality signal" message came up. I know that was not a message from my E* 921 because the 921's error messages are formatted differently.


BTW: the very first STO gam I saw was via COX Cable. guess what? I saw that same "Poor signal quality" message pop up!


STO must be having problems uplinking their signal, for virtually every provider has been having problems with audio dropout.


----------



## paule123

Just got this email from STO (I assume because I'm on their mailing list through MLB.com or from my feedback form to STO):



*********

Dear xxx,


As many of you are aware, SportsTime Ohio is now on Direct TV. We want to thank all of you for your patience throughout this process and thank you for participating by contacting Direct TV and letting them know you want Indians baseball.


However, some of you may not be getting SportsTime Ohio on Channel 657. Direct TV has decided not to offer SportsTime Ohio to the outer regions of the Indians market. This also means you cannot access Indians baseball via the MLB Outer Market package as well. We are very aware there are several thousand Indians fans affected by the decision of their Los Angeles office. Therefore, we encourage you to call Direct TV at 800-494-4388 or email them at www.directv.com/email .


As far as those of you who are supposed to be receiving SportsTime Ohio on Direct TV. We know you have been hearing several explanations including:



You have to purchase an additional "Sports Pack"

The game wasn't sold out so we had to black it out

The Dolans told Direct TV to black it out

Only away games are being televised

If you are in a zip code starting with 44 you will not get the game

Please be assured that there is no truth to these explanations. All you need is the Total Choice basic package. We have been assured by their executives that the issue has been resolved and you should see the Indians and Mariners tomorrow night starting at 6:30pm. If you do not receive the game please call Direct TV.


We apologize for this incredible inconvenience when the Indians are playing as well as they are.


Sincerely,


SportsTime Ohio


----------



## hookbill

Wow. Just wow. Direct TV use to be known for such great customer service. They've really dropped the ball on this. And the excuse list is just sad.


Then the Tribe fans that are in distant areas but near enough to be considered in the area don't get anything?


I'd dump them just on principle.


----------



## Inundated

Also, this interview with STO's Jim Liberatore is interesting reading...much of the same as in the letter above, but a little more:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...iberatore.html 


Something I've seen nowhere else yet - they are aware of the audio glitches, especially on the HD feed, and they're supposedly fixed for Tuesday night's Indians-Mariners game on STO.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. Just wow. Direct TV use to be known for such great customer service. They've really dropped the ball on this. And the excuse list is just sad.



My father got one of the excuses on Saturday, before he kept calling back until he got someone to activate him.












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Then the Tribe fans that are in distant areas but near enough to be considered in the area don't get anything?
> 
> 
> I'd dump them just on principle.



The thing is, as Jim Liberatore points out in the story above, the folks in places like Erie, Toledo and whatnot can't get the Indians games AT ANY PRICE. They will still be blacked out of the Indians games STO carries in "Extra Innings", and will not be able to see the games that are the reason "EI" is blacked out! Is this any way to run a satellite company?


It's almost like DirecTV is saying - "You wanna watch the Indians in Lima? You'll watch the 20 over-air games on WLIO, and whatever ESPN and FOX TV air nationally, and LIKE IT!"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, this interview with STO's Jim Liberatore is interesting reading...much of the same as in the letter above, but a little more:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...iberatore.html
> 
> 
> Something I've seen nowhere else yet - they are aware of the audio glitches, especially on the HD feed, and they're supposedly fixed for Tuesday night's Indians-Mariners game on STO.



That's good to hear. I hope they get the .1 in there as well. It's odd seeing just 5.0, though I don't know if I could really hear any difference.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's good to hear. I hope they get the .1 in there as well. It's odd seeing just 5.0, though I don't know if I could really hear any difference.



I don't have a 5.1 system, but my Fusion tuner software behaves oddly during STO's HD games on 798...it doesn't display DD2CH or DD5.1 in the box that says what kind of audio there is, it just sits there with "AC3" (the audio designation that displays when there is no audio actually coming through).


This tells me that they're not sending down the proper information to tell the AC3 decoder that it's 5.1. FSN Ohio's Cavaliers HD games display "DD5.1" on 798...as I confirmed by a quick check of tonight's game right now.


----------



## jtscherne

My receiver specifically shows which speakers are getting active sound with a digital signal. It clearly shows only five speakers - the front three and the two rear ones. The subwoofer does not light up and there is definitely no change at all throughout the game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My receiver specifically shows which speakers are getting active sound with a digital signal. It clearly shows only five speakers - the front three and the two rear ones. The subwoofer does not light up and there is definitely no change at all throughout the game.



Keep an eye on it on Tuesday night, and let us know if that's the same. They apparently did some work on the sound.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Keep an eye on it on Tuesday night, and let us know if that's the same. They apparently did some work on the sound.



My receiver does the same as jtscherne's. I won't be able to watch the whole game tonight but I'll take a peek at it to see what the reading is.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't have a 5.1 system, but my Fusion tuner software behaves oddly during STO's HD games on 798...it doesn't display DD2CH or DD5.1 in the box that says what kind of audio there is, it just sits there with "AC3" (the audio designation that displays when there is no audio actually coming through).
> 
> 
> This tells me that they're not sending down the proper information to tell the AC3 decoder that it's 5.1. FSN Ohio's Cavaliers HD games display "DD5.1" on 798...as I confirmed by a quick check of tonight's game right now.



Strangly, the sound for the Cavs game last night didn't seem right on my Yamaha receiver. It seemed like the same sound was coming out of all 5 speakers. The announcer's voices came from all speakers & it definately wasn't 5.1 for me. I forgot to look on the receiver to see what speakers it showed though as I got side tracked watching 24. I'll have to look next game if it's bad again for me. Indians games came through as 5.1 though. Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My father got one of the excuses on Saturday, before he kept calling back until he got someone to activate him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is, as Jim Liberatore points out in the story above, the folks in places like Erie, Toledo and whatnot can't get the Indians games AT ANY PRICE. They will still be blacked out of the Indians games STO carries in "Extra Innings", and will not be able to see the games that are the reason "EI" is blacked out! Is this any way to run a satellite company?
> 
> 
> It's almost like DirecTV is saying - "You wanna watch the Indians in Lima? You'll watch the 20 over-air games on WLIO, and whatever ESPN and FOX TV air nationally, and LIKE IT!"



No DirecTV is saying, if you want STO in Lima, Get Dish Network.

Several years ago the shoe was on the other foot, Dish Network subs got screwed out of half the "cable" games on FSNO. So now it's Direc TV's turn. It's unfortunate for D* subs, but for once E* did something right concerning a new RSN.


----------



## Fred DeGrandis

Is anyone else experienceing problems with CBS 19-1?


I haven't been able to pull this channel in for a week or so.


Please let me know if you are having problems. Thanks in advance for any feedback,



Fred


----------



## Michael P 2341

No problems with WOIO-DT OTA here in Parma.


----------



## paule123

Looks like D* got their s**t together for tonight's Indians game on STO, at least for me. Pregame show was on, as well as the game currently in progress. It's still a little disturbing how they drop channel 657 from the guide on off days and times (channel 657 was missing from my guide earlier, but magically appeared later in the day).


----------



## Felony44

Im watching the game on DTV 657 and it looks ok but i dont think its HD is DTV offering it in HD?


----------



## hookbill

Sound on 798 Adelphia still coming in 3/2. Still no channel for the subwolfer.


I only looked in for a couple of seconds. How does it actually sound?


----------



## Rijax

No audio dropouts on Cox cable tonight (thankfully), but my receiver is still saying Dolby D 3/2. No LFE. PQ is fabulous. So is the score, 6-0


----------



## jtscherne

Neither satellite company is currently offering STO in HD.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Im watching the game on DTV 657 and it looks ok but i dont think its HD is DTV offering it in HD?


----------



## jtscherne

Even without the subwoofer the sound is great. Quite lifelike without going overboard with the surround sound (can we say Fox Sports?)


Also, the picture is gorgeous. I think nighttime is the best time for HD sports because you don't have to deal with the sun and the overall lighting tends to be more consistent.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sound on 798 Adelphia still coming in 3/2. Still no channel for the subwolfer.
> 
> 
> I only looked in for a couple of seconds. How does it actually sound?


----------



## geocab

Just wanted to pop in and see if any of you have checked out the Area Meets Section lately.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662380 


Just looking for interest.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sound on 798 Adelphia still coming in 3/2. Still no channel for the subwolfer.
> 
> 
> I only looked in for a couple of seconds. How does it actually sound?



I noticed that my subwoofer was "woofing" away during the game, but it may have been just the ProLogic in my receiver (it has a mind of its own, depending upon the program material!) I did not notice any sound coming from my rear speakers, however. No sound drop-outs and the PQ was excellent.


I was doing some PiP comparison Sunday between Adelphia's 798, 17 and 179. 179 was delayed a good 3-4 seconds behind 798 which is delayed maybe 1 second or so behind 17. I was surprised at the long delay on 179....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that my subwoofer was "woofing" away during the game, but it may have been just the ProLogic in my receiver (it has a mind of its own, depending upon the program material!) I did not notice any sound coming from my rear speakers, however. No sound drop-outs and the PQ was excellent.
> 
> 
> I was doing some PiP comparison Sunday between Adelphia's 798, 17 and 179. 179 was delayed a good 3-4 seconds behind 798 which is delayed maybe 1 second or so behind 17. I was surprised at the long delay on 179....



Yes, I hear my subwolfer too, however I also hear my rear speakers, though it isn't as "centered" as I feel it should be. I can control that a bit by simply boosting the signal to my rear speakers or turning up the volume knob on the speakers themselves. But if I started doing that I'd be adjusting everytime I changed a channel.










I was comparing signals when I let my receiver on self adjusting and switching to pro logic II. I heard no difference. I also have pro logic IIx and there were no indications that other speakers were made available. My receiver seemed determined to treat it as 5.1 even though only 5.0 showed.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Neither satellite company is currently offering STO in HD.



Although D* CSRs are claiming STO in HD in May allegedly. My bet would be on an occasional game on 95 (or thereabouts), but we'll have to cross our fingers and wait. Given Cleveland locals are not slated to be available in MPEG4 until June, it wouldn't seem likely that they're depending on spot-beaming it to provide it in HD, but given we're talking D* CSR provided info, who really knows?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that my subwoofer was "woofing" away during the game, but it may have been just the ProLogic in my receiver (it has a mind of its own, depending upon the program material!) I did not notice any sound coming from my rear speakers, however. No sound drop-outs and the PQ was excellent.
> 
> 
> I was doing some PiP comparison Sunday between Adelphia's 798, 17 and 179. 179 was delayed a good 3-4 seconds behind 798 which is delayed maybe 1 second or so behind 17. I was surprised at the long delay on 179....



There will always be a delay when compairing an analog feed (17) with either of the digital feeds (179 SD and 798 HD). When a digital signal is received it has already been delayed as it is digitized and then again as it is decoded for viewing. Since the analog signal does not need to be decoded (D/A conversion) it will always be ahead of any digital feed.


BTW if you happen to have multiple digital receivers tuned to the same channel, you may detect a time difference as each receiver's D/A converter decodes the signal.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although D* CSRs are claiming STO in HD in May allegedly. My bet would be on an occasional game on 95 (or thereabouts), but we'll have to cross our fingers and wait. Given Cleveland locals are not slated to be available in MPEG4 until June, it wouldn't seem likely that they're depending on spot-beaming it to provide it in HD, but given we're talking D* CSR provided info, who really knows?



D* should give their subs the HD version of STO if for no other reason than to make up for the mistakes made getting this channel launched on their service.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although D* CSRs are claiming STO in HD in May allegedly. My bet would be on an occasional game on 95 (or thereabouts), but we'll have to cross our fingers and wait. Given Cleveland locals are not slated to be available in MPEG4 until June, it wouldn't seem likely that they're depending on spot-beaming it to provide it in HD, but given we're talking D* CSR provided info, who really knows?



Did they claim that STO specifically would be available in HD? Or did they just claim that the Indians games would be available in HD? I would bet on the latter, as I would give D* only enough credit that they're relying on KYC to be available then. That's how I see D* delivering the Indians in HD.


"Yes, you can get it. But only when KYC has it. By the way, can I interest you in a $99 upgrade special? All you have to do is to commit to 4 more years of DirecTV!"


----------



## hookbill

Never believe anything ANY csr says.


It's the golden rule.


----------



## Rijax

The audio dropouts are back. EVERY 45 SECONDS! AAAARRRRGGHH!


----------



## jtscherne

I'm not getting any dropouts (Adelphia HD). Of course, I'm also still not getting the subwoofer, even though they put up a quick note in the upper right soon after the game started indicating HD 5.1.


Yes, I'm getting rear sound, but it's very light, mostly a little bit of cheering occasionally.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm getting rear sound, but it's very light, mostly a little bit of cheering occasionally.



I watched some of the Yankees and Royals on ESPN-HD today and the ONLY time I heard my rear speakers was when a commercial came on.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The audio dropouts are back. EVERY 45 SECONDS! AAAARRRRGGHH!



Not hearing the dropouts here on Adelphia HD 798.


What service and which channel number are you watching?


----------



## Rijax

Cox Cable, Hi Def channel 758, digital coaxial from cable box to receiver. They are EXACTLY every 45 seconds. I can call 'em by watching the clock. Weird! I was just upstairs taking a shower, and while doing my post shower ablutions (shaving, etc.), I was watching on SD channel 58 and didn't notice any dropouts. HMMM?










Just switched my Hi Def set over to the SD feed on Ch. 58, and no dropouts.


----------



## Dweezilz

Adelphia HD audio is fine today, minus the subwoofer that is. No pauses or audio interuptions. Don't know why but the other day I wasn't getting 5.1 - sub, I was getting the same audio from all speakers. Today it's back to 5.1 - sub. The sound itself is very good with the crack of the bat sounding very crisp & loud as well as the snap of the ball hitting the catchers mit. Not much rear sound aside from the very very light cheering sounds from time to time as was mentioned. It's very strange that they are missing the LFE. I've never seen my Yamaha receiver show that configuration before!


----------



## Rijax

Heh Heh! Now I've got no feed at all. Neither the HD or SD feed is working. Just a black screen and dead silence. Nice!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Heh Heh! Now I've got no feed at all. Neither the HD or SD feed is working. Just a black screen and dead silence. Nice!



Sounds like Cox is having some problems. It's been flawless here in Adelphia land...


BTW, STO has shown up in my TiVo's program guide, as of today.


----------



## Inundated

Oops. Spoke too soon. Adelphia is dead on both 17 and 798. Green screen on 17, blank screen on 798. (I'll assume 179 is down, too.) Now green blank screen on 798 as well, duplicating 17.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oops. Spoke too soon. Adelphia is dead on both 17 and 798. Green screen on 17, blank screen on 798. (I'll assume 179 is down, too.) Now green blank screen on 798 as well, duplicating 17.



It's a problem with a switching system feeding the uplink. Sit tight, they're working on it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a problem with a switching system feeding the uplink. Sit tight, they're working on it.



Figured so...the 5th inning is a bit early to say "screw it, this isn't working, let's go home".










Thank you for the update!


Still out as of last check a moment ago. I'm kickin' old style with Tom Hamilton for now...


----------



## paule123

STO 657 on D* dead here - showing a DirecTV logo'ed "technical difficulties" screen at the moment... I was getting pregame and game earlier tonight...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO 657 on D* dead here - showing a DirecTV logo'ed "technical difficulties" screen at the moment... I was getting pregame and game earlier tonight...



SD feed is back. HD feed has video but no audio yet...


----------



## Rijax

Same here, but CRAP! it's 10 to 5. Time to go watch a movie.


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia - SD and HD video back, no audio or commercials for that matter.


----------



## Inundated

Sound just came back in a replay sequence, during what would have been a commercial break.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did they claim that STO specifically would be available in HD? Or did they just claim that the Indians games would be available in HD? I would bet on the latter, as I would give D* only enough credit that they're relying on KYC to be available then. That's how I see D* delivering the Indians in HD.



Now that's an amusing thought - 'course that presumes the CSR would have to be knowledgeable enough to KNOW the Tribe was going to be on WKYC this year and in Hi-Def no less. What are the odds? 'Course if they were going to be that shifty, I'd expect them to claim they already have the Tribe in HD on D* - the opener was on ESPN-HD in April after all.


Besides they claimed May and don't plan on offering 3-1 until June anyway.


I'm not exactly holding my breath about seeing the Tribe in HD in May on D*, but it's nice to hope...Realistically I'm hoping STO will be MPEG4 in '07 and D* will have a stable enough MPEG4 DVR I'll actually want to consider giving up the HD-Tivo. Any Tribe HD we see in '06 on D* in MPEG2 will just be a bonus from my perspective...


----------



## Dweezilz

Considering D* and E* haven't added any HD programming in the last year or two (aside from E* adding the Voom bird), I would have been shocked if they added the games on STO-HD. I had just assumed it was the SD version only that they would add. I have Adelphia so I didn't look into it much though. ha!!










If they don't have the space right now for other national HD networks (pure HD channels, not locals), I wouldn't think they'd do the Tribe in HD aside from what you can get OTA from WKYC. When they turn to MPEG4, MAYBE they will add it, but even then, I wouldn't hold my breath either.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Considering D* and E* haven't added any HD programming in the last year or two (aside from E* adding the Voom bird),



That's not really true. D* has added ESPN2-HD & TNT-HD in '05 & '06 respectively. E* has added programming as well including, as you note, all the Voom channels, which is a decent number of channels - not sure what else E* has added beyond VOOM though.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If they don't have the space right now for other national HD networks (pure HD channels, not locals), I wouldn't think they'd do the Tribe in HD aside from what you can get OTA from WKYC. When they turn to MPEG4, MAYBE they will add it, but even then, I wouldn't hold my breath either.



One thing that may allow D* and/or E* to carry some Tribe games is they're not adding a full channel - they're committing to 3 or 4 hours of HD bandwidth about 4 times a week on average (considering not all STO games are offered in HD) which is far different than needing the bandwidth 24/7. D* does this now offering some baseball and NBA games on 95 - there's no reason the Tribe can't be part of that mix this year - just don't expect them to be on every night.


Now I'm certainly not expecting to see all Tribe games in HD in '06 & will be pleasantly surprised to see some on D* this season. Once MPEG4 is rolled out though, D* would be foolish to not offer as many RSNs in HD as possible. They realize that sports availability drives a ton of their business & will act accordingly - witness how many folks stick w/D* due solely to NFL Sunday Ticket availability. Given they already have STO up and running in SD, there's no reason they wouldn't add the HD version once they have bandwidth available via a spot beam w/the other locals.


----------



## jtscherne

E* added ESPN2HD and Universal HD, although both require an MPEG4 receiver, along with additional VOOM channels.


----------



## billodom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a problem with a switching system feeding the uplink. Sit tight, they're working on it.



Guess that is why we didn't get Tribe highlights--or lowlights?--in HD from STO on SportsCenter last night and were reduced to seeing them from FSN NW's feed in SD. Good to see Cleveland stepping up in the HD area with the likes of the Bostons and the New Yorks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billodom* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guess that is why we didn't get Tribe highlights--or lowlights?--in HD from STO on SportsCenter last night and were reduced to seeing them from FSN NW's feed in SD. Good to see Cleveland stepping up in the HD area with the likes of the Bostons and the New Yorks.



From watching MLB-EI and seeing NESN their not quite up there with Boston. NESN is showing EVERY game in HD.


But I the understand the Tribe may do the same by next year.


----------



## paule123

Finally home from a long road trip to check out STO in HD on Wide Open West channel 221. Looks pretty good, nice surround mix except for the audio dropouts occurring a little too often. But there's a 50/50 chance that the audio problem is really an SA8000HD problem, heard it before with other channels (namely Fox NFL live HD games) Doesn't sound like my subwoofer is getting any action (compared to the Cavs game over on TNT-HD)


The Tribe uniform whites are really blasting on the contrast.


----------



## jtscherne

I noticed more sound coming out of the rear speakers at times last night. For example, when Betancourt struck out the player with the bases loaded in the fifth, the cheers suddenly came out quite loudly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed more sound coming out of the rear speakers at times last night. For example, when Betancourt struck out the player with the bases loaded in the fifth, the cheers suddenly came out quite loudly.



Yes, they really need to direct more sound to those rear speakers.


Overall I'm not very satisfied with the way 5.1 is distributed by television. IMHO Fox does the best job on shows like 24 and also on it's football. I agree they go a bit overboard with the sound effects but they have the best feel for being in the middle of the crowd.


I would like for it to sound more like it sounds on a DVD. I don't know why they don't pay more attention to the sound if they are going to use 5.1.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's not really true. D* has added ESPN2-HD & TNT-HD in '05 & '06 respectively. E* has added programming as well including, as you note, all the Voom channels, which is a decent number of channels - not sure what else E* has added beyond VOOM though.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing that may allow D* and/or E* to carry some Tribe games is they're not adding a full channel - they're committing to 3 or 4 hours of HD bandwidth about 4 times a week on average (considering not all STO games are offered in HD) which is far different than needing the bandwidth 24/7. D* does this now offering some baseball and NBA games on 95 - there's no reason the Tribe can't be part of that mix this year - just don't expect them to be on every night.
> 
> 
> Now I'm certainly not expecting to see all Tribe games in HD in '06 & will be pleasantly surprised to see some on D* this season. Once MPEG4 is rolled out though, D* would be foolish to not offer as many RSNs in HD as possible. They realize that sports availability drives a ton of their business & will act accordingly - witness how many folks stick w/D* due solely to NFL Sunday Ticket availability. Given they already have STO up and running in SD, there's no reason they wouldn't add the HD version once they have bandwidth available via a spot beam w/the other locals.



Really I was only talking about what people expected right now...not debating at all what they will do in the future. I agree with you. I guess the point I was trying to make is that obviously they have been very very slow in adding HD content. Adding one or two channels in a two year period is not what I would consider quick expantion of their HD programming and adding a local HD sports channel before adding things like national HD locals or more national HD content, doesn't sound like something I would have expected them to do. Plus, think about how many other cities they would have to add local HD sports channels for. Every city that has their local games in HD would want the same & they obviously aren't ready quite yet for local sports HD's. That's not to say they won't in the future once the local network HD's roll out, but what I was talking about was only pertaining to the disappointment people had with them for not having the HD Tribe right now. It's been like pulling teeth to get DirectTV (and to a lesser extent Dish) to add HD content so I don't know why anyone expected them to do STO-HD for this season. Who knows, maybe they'll suprise you DirectTV guys & throw in a few HD games at some point soon.


----------



## jtscherne

Dish offers a few HD games a week on the Extra Innings package. I don't know if D* does this too.


Up until now, both companies basically indicated that they didn't have the bandwidth to offer too much more. With the switch to MPEG4 and additional satellites, they are now getting HD locals up.


Dish has specifically indicated that they don't plan on working on HD regional sports networks for now. They have promised both Food Network HD and Home & Garden HD soon.


----------



## HDTD

I thought when STO was formed they announced it would be a partnership with the team, WKYC and Time-Warner cable. So that makes me wonder...what motivation would they have to be on any of the satellite providers in HD, when Time-Warner would have the potential of selling more HD boxes?


Also, if STO's in a partnership with TWC, what motivation would the sats have to put any more premium showings of STO on their system other than the basic SD feed just to satisfy Tribe fans?



Is Time-Warner a partner in all of this? If so, they seem the most quiet of the three.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought when STO was formed they announced it would be a partnership with the team, WKYC and Time-Warner cable. So that makes me wonder...what motivation would they have to be on any of the satellite providers in HD, when Time-Warner would have the potential of selling more HD boxes?
> 
> 
> Also, if STO's in a partnership with TWC, what motivation would the sats have to put any more premium showings of STO on their system other than the basic SD feed just to satisfy Tribe fans?
> 
> 
> 
> Is Time-Warner a partner in all of this? If so, they seem the most quiet of the three.




I don't think so. They were one of the main players as far as signing on, but that's about it.


From STO's Website :


About SportsTime Ohio

SportsTime Ohio is an innovative TV network designed to offer a variety of sports programming, with its initial venture being the largest television package in Indians team history (158 games to be broadcast in 2006). The schedule calls for SportsTime Ohio to air 130 regular season games and eight spring training games on cable and satellite television. SportsTime Ohio will also broadcast an additional 20 games on WKYC-TV (Cleveland) and other over-the-air local television stations in key Indians television markets. Plans are being developed to offer additional programming, geared specifically toward Ohio-area sports fans and the passion that makes the region a great sports community, to complement this expanded baseball schedule throughout the year.


----------



## billodom

 http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...=.jsp&c_id=cle


----------



## gzath

A bit off topic but a funny observation from my daughter about the beloved TimeWarner cable company. (I'm a Dish abused customer, so I get my hair-pulling frustrations from them)


She has moved into an aprtment prior to her June wedding and is setting up the essentials ... among them cable and a cable modem. She called me yesterday with questions on her computer's network settings because she could not connect. After walking her through a few different setups still no go. She said, "I guess I'll call their help desk."


Long story short ... I saw her online on AOL Instant Mess and asked how it went and what had been wrong with the cable internet. Her reply ...


"It's a long story, I'll tell you later. Basically, Time Warner are a bunch of idiots."


Ahh, another young adult indoctrinated into the world of subscription TV and its wonderful customer service.


Cable or Satellite? Grass is always greener on the other side except once you hop the fence you usually land in a cow patty.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *billodom* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...=.jsp&c_id=cle



billodom if your going to post a link can you make a comment as well so we don't misunderstand your point?


I'm assuming from the link your posting that what your saying is there is a partnership between Time Warner and STO. If so, I disagree. The story says that STO and TW have signed a long term *non exclusive* deal to show Indians games. It doesn't say anyting about a partnership.


Also the date on that link is 12/26/2005, long before anyone else signed.


If that wasn't the point of posting the link, then I'm confused. What was the point?


----------



## Inundated

Here's the paragraph probably in question in that story:



> Quote:
> Where those networks didn't come through -- and where the Indians expect to succeed -- is in securing cable outlets to provide the channel to a broad base of fans. The Indians have taken the first step toward avoiding that problem by signing a non-exclusive, long-term distribution agreement with Time Warner Cable, Ohio's largest cable system operator.



So, you're right and I'm right. Actually, TWC is just one (but a key) part of the equation. The STO folks are far more tangled up with WKYC/3, which provides production services for the games themselves.


----------



## billodom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> billodom if your going to post a link can you make a comment as well so we don't misunderstand your point?
> 
> 
> What was the point?



Didn't intend to be vague. Here was the post I intended to respond to with the link.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought when STO was formed they announced it would be a partnership with the team, WKYC and Time-Warner cable. So that makes me wonder...what motivation would they have to be on any of the satellite providers in HD, when Time-Warner would have the potential of selling more HD boxes?
> 
> 
> Also, if STO's in a partnership with TWC, what motivation would the sats have to put any more premium showings of STO on their system other than the basic SD feed just to satisfy Tribe fans?
> 
> 
> 
> Is Time-Warner a partner in all of this? If so, they seem the most quiet of the three.



My point was it does not appear that the satellite providers are prejudiced in the least by the Tribe's new sports network since TWC has no ownership stake. I'm sure D* and Dish would love to carry the games in HD, if only they had the capacity. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## hookbill

Just so I know I'm not crazy, didn't I read somewhere recently that the Indians replay of their home opener was creeping into the back speakers of WKYC's shows Las Vegas and Conviction? I finally got around to watching those and wow, it was weird. Ball game crowd in the back speakers and show on the front speakers.


How the heck could that happen?


----------



## HDTD

Thanks for clearing that up. I read that wrong as Time Warner having an ownership part of the deal. All makes sense now.


In the MLB.com release Dolan was quoted as saying they've already factored in 2006 revenues from the network into team payroll. Wondering if the four sponsors of Red Roof Inn, Hummer, McDonald's and Subway can support that?


----------



## Telosian

What's the matter Hookbill? You don't like Jacobs Field in your casino?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up. I read that wrong as Time Warner having an ownership part of the deal. All makes sense now.
> 
> 
> In the MLB.com release Dolan was quoted as saying they've already factored in 2006 revenues from the network into team payroll. Wondering if the four sponsors of Red Roof Inn, Hummer, McDonald's and Subway can support that?



Only 4 sponsors? Perhaps that is why there have been several cases on STO (and even at the end of the home operner on WKYC-DT) where there were no commercials during the commercial breks. I posted this several pages back and no one else noticed. I thought there were technical issues since it appeard to be a "raw feed" (i.e. the feed from the Jake that is meant to be sent only to the place where they add in the commercials). I presumed that there were comercials on the analog side between the 8th and 9th inning until someone at work who was watching the analog side said they too saw the commercial free breaks.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the matter Hookbill? You don't like Jacobs Field in your casino?



Could be a sign of things to come (an "Indian" casino next to the Jake).


----------



## hookbill

I still don't get it. Actually I didn't realize it was the Jake in the background for a while. I thought it was Casino noise. I even recall a sporting event on a tv in the background during the show.


But when they got in a room and later in the woods, I realized something was wrong. I just don't understand how the feed came through. STO was doing a replay at the time of airing of Vegas and Convictions, I remember that but it wasn't on the same station. Did they go straight from WKYC's studios with the feed?


When these things happen it makes me look like an idiot in front of my wife who thinks all this HD stuff is a lot of macho chest beating.


----------



## hookbill

I just happened to notice that ZAP2IT.com is now listing channel 17 on Adelhia Suburbs as STO. It's also listing channel 179 as well as STO.


The big surprise however is it has channel 798 listed as STO and shows the game being broadcast there as well today. I thought that was going to be used for HD only.


Maybe an error in the guide?


----------



## ClevelandJax

Hey Folks,


When I used to be with Cox before moving to an Adelphia region, I purchased one of the Scientific-Atlanta 3270HD boxes that were available at the very onset of their HD rollout (before they were leasing them). Now I'm stuck with the box and wondering if anyone has successfully used it on Adelphia's system? Adelphia's customer service replied with a non-chalant "No" with no further explanation as to why not when I asked, but past experiences have lead me to conclude the typical Adelphia CSR knows next to nothing and just give you the answers most likely to get you off the phone quickest.


So.. Anyone know if you can migrate a Cox SA3270HD to Adelphia's system? Nothing on the unit specifically brands it as being "Cox" proprietary that I can see.


----------



## hookbill

When Adelphia authorizes a box to work it does so by entering specifics about that receiver. But since TiVo works and I don't believe they need Adelphia authorization, I'm not certain.


I would plug it in and see what happens. Worst case is it doesn't work. Then maybe go to the AVS forum areas where they discuss that model for additional advice.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Folks,
> 
> 
> When I used to be with Cox before moving to an Adelphia region, I purchased one of the Scientific-Atlanta 3270HD boxes that were available at the very onset of their HD rollout (before they were leasing them). Now I'm stuck with the box and wondering if anyone has successfully used it on Adelphia's system? Adelphia's customer service replied with a non-chalant "No" with no further explanation as to why not when I asked, but past experiences have lead me to conclude the typical Adelphia CSR knows next to nothing and just give you the answers most likely to get you off the phone quickest.
> 
> 
> So.. Anyone know if you can migrate a Cox SA3270HD to Adelphia's system? Nothing on the unit specifically brands it as being "Cox" proprietary that I can see.



Try the Adelphia HSI forum on Broadband Reports forum...

http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/adelphia


----------



## davidshay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How's your signal strength, particularly on 105? It's hard to determine what the actual signal strength is on the Fusion on QAM tuning, as it almost always shows above 90% if there's anything there.
> 
> 
> I had a problem with some of the QAM channels until I realized that I'd inadvertently put an EXTRA splitter in the line between the other room and here. Removing that got me a perfectly strong signal and cleared up my QAM difficulties. And I'm running a 25 foot cable between the living room and here!
> 
> 
> When I did have the problems, the signal strength was close to 90% on the Fusion on those channels. After removing the extra splitter, the signal strength shows 97-100%.



So, following the splitter angle, I started trying various combinations. Turns out that my coax surge protector built into my Belkin power strip blocks out QAM channel 105. Doesn't seem to affect the cable modem or any other channels. Even swapped out the Belkin with another APC surge protector that I had in, and it too blocks the same channel. Ruled out other sources such as splitters by going direct, as well, and it's the surge protectors.


So, does anybody receive channel 105 on Adelphia QAM *AND* use a coax surge protector?

If so, what brand/model #?


Anybody else ever experience a problem with QAM and surge protectors?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just happened to notice that ZAP2IT.com is now listing channel 17 on Adelhia Suburbs as STO. It's also listing channel 179 as well as STO.



And since TiVo uses the same source (Tribune Media Services), it is also now listing channel 17 as STO (as well as 179). More specifically, it has two listings for 17, one the Community Channel and one STO. Presumably, this won't make a difference...whichever you choose to record from, it'll still record 17 at those hours/times.


My TiVo also took listings for 798 as STO, though I turned it off in the list due to the fact I don't have an HDTivo.


As far as that Cox SA box - I imagine it wouldn't work unless Adelphia provisions it. It'll be interesting to see if they will. Adelphia does support SA equipment, of course, so who knows how difficult it will be?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davidshay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody else ever experience a problem with QAM and surge protectors?



The splitter I described in the first reply to you was actually a surge protector. I wasn't being clear when I wrote it







The cable is already split at the wall from the need to feed both the TV line and the cable modem. The surge protector acted as a second splitter would, as far as a reduction in signal strength.


I'm not entirely clear if it was the fact that the surge protector was a surge protector blocking frequencies, or if it was just that it was further reducing signal strength and THEN causing problems. Either way, the signal strength went up dramatically when I took the SP out of the mix.


I don't recall if any QAM channels were actually not working before - I believe they were, just at a much lower signal strength. I don't recall either of the QAM channels carrying the local HD affiliates not working fully...just the ones that had 90% strength and were flaky before I removed the surge protector from the circuit, which jumped to near 100% after that.


----------



## paule123

I'm on WOW and noticed that during today's Indians/Tigers game on STO, the audio on the digital channel 221 was slightly out of sync, while there was no audio sync problem on the analog channel 72. It also seems to me that on the digital channel there was some slight "frame strobing" aka "I can see the individual frames" when you looked directly at the baseball when thrown or looked closely at the bat when the bat was swung. (today's game was in SD, not HD) Anybody else notice this on the other systems?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm on WOW and noticed that during today's Indians/Tigers game on STO, the audio on the digital channel 221 was slightly out of sync, while there was no audio sync problem on the analog channel 72. It also seems to me that on the digital channel there was some slight "frame strobing" aka "I can see the individual frames" when you looked directly at the baseball when thrown or looked closely at the bat when the bat was swung. (today's game was in SD, not HD) Anybody else notice this on the other systems?



No, on Adelphia everything appeared normal. The only thing I noticed was during some of the commercials there was some static to my rear speakers (pro logic II).


Outside of that a very boring game with a bad ending.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm on WOW and noticed that during today's Indians/Tigers game on STO, the audio on the digital channel 221 was slightly out of sync, while there was no audio sync problem on the analog channel 72.



221 is where they put the HD games, right?


On Adelphia, they don't even populate 798 if the game is not in HD, like this one. Of course, Adelphia has the existing digital SD channel 179, and both it and analog 17 were fine here today.


It must be something in how WOW upconverted it to 221 or something.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 221 is where they put the HD games, right?
> 
> 
> On Adelphia, they don't even populate 798 if the game is not in HD, like this one. Of course, Adelphia has the existing digital SD channel 179, and both it and analog 17 were fine here today.
> 
> 
> It must be something in how WOW upconverted it to 221 or something.



Yes, 221 is where WOW puts the HD games. It's hard to tell that the audio was out of sync since you typically don't see the faces of the announcers speaking during the game, but it was quite apparent when the commercials came on. It's also out of sync on the replay tonight.


----------



## davidshay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The splitter I described in the first reply to you was actually a surge protector. I wasn't being clear when I wrote it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cable is already split at the wall from the need to feed both the TV line and the cable modem. The surge protector acted as a second splitter would, as far as a reduction in signal strength.
> 
> 
> I'm not entirely clear if it was the fact that the surge protector was a surge protector blocking frequencies, or if it was just that it was further reducing signal strength and THEN causing problems. Either way, the signal strength went up dramatically when I took the SP out of the mix.
> 
> 
> I don't recall if any QAM channels were actually not working before - I believe they were, just at a much lower signal strength. I don't recall either of the QAM channels carrying the local HD affiliates not working fully...just the ones that had 90% strength and were flaky before I removed the surge protector from the circuit, which jumped to near 100% after that.



So, if I understand this correctly, you are not surge-protecting the input to your QAM card? I guess it just seemed to me to defeat the purpose of the surge protectors for the rest of the PC if lightning would just follow the path through the cable to the card...


In my tests, I removed all "regular" splitters and just had the surge protector in-line. Still had the issue. I don't know if there's such a thing as a "high-quality, low-level signal loss" surge protector out there, does anyone?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davidshay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, if I understand this correctly, you are not surge-protecting the input to your QAM card? I guess it just seemed to me to defeat the purpose of the surge protectors for the rest of the PC if lightning would just follow the path through the cable to the card...



Correct, I am not. I am not happy about it, but I can't use the tuner to its fullest otherwise.


In effect, I'm crossing my fingers. Though if it gets particularly bad thunderstorm wise, I just disconnect the thing...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davidshay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In my tests, I removed all "regular" splitters and just had the surge protector in-line. Still had the issue. I don't know if there's such a thing as a "high-quality, low-level signal loss" surge protector out there, does anyone?



Wish I knew...I'm in the same boat.


----------



## hookbill

I've got several different types of surge protection for my electronics. When I bought my generator I noticed that the ones that controled my SA 8300 and computer became "unstable" when my generator came on. The UPS would click on and off constantly. An electrician explained it had to do with the "noise" the generator put out.


I then purchased an APC XS 1500. I did a "test outage" and this unit handled the change in power with no problem. It has a "stabelizer" built in it to handle these type of things.


Guys, I don't know if this relates really to what your talking about but it kind of sounds like it might.


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davidshay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if there's such a thing as a "high-quality, low-level signal loss" surge protector out there, does anyone?



Not sure if this qualifies, but my electrician installed a Whole-House surge protector from SquareD. It installs between the feed and the panel and the model I got had inputs for Coax as well. When Adelphia came out to do the initial setup, they measured the signal before and after hooking it up to the surge protector. I don't know what measurement device they were using, but I recall it being 106 before and 103 after. Once it goes through my surge protector, it then gets spilt in two, one for Internet, one for TV, which then gets split 6 ways for the house. Two of those 6 are going into HD-DVRs and I've never had a problem with signal, that I can tell anyway.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure if this qualifies, but my electrician installed a Whole-House surge protector from SquareD.



Do you have a model or part number for that thing? I've got a lake behind my house that is a lightning magnet.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you have a model or part number for that thing? I've got a lake behind my house that is a lightning magnet.



Just a quick search of the SquareD website yielded this:
http://www.squared.com/us/products/surge_protection.nsf/unid/DFD1DBCD6854AFA685256A78006DD636/$file/surgebreakerplushome.htm 


I don't know if it is the exact model but it sounds pretty close.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

Thanks much. I'll check it out.


----------



## Inundated

Interesting stuff, though a "whole house" thing is not going to work for me. I'm hoping for a separate solution just for the one coax line.


----------



## davidshay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting stuff, though a "whole house" thing is not going to work for me. I'm hoping for a separate solution just for the one coax line.



There's also these in-line type devices , ranging from really small $2.95 devices like this:
http://www.sjgreatdeals.com/jvi70se10.html 


to something from DITEK that runs around $45-50 or so (on other sites...)

http://www.ditekcorp.com/productDeta...oduct=DTK-iVSP 


I may try one of these two options...


----------



## jtscherne

STO isn't framed very well tonight, both on Adelphia Channel 17 and Dish network. The scoreboard is barely showing on the top of the screen. Are others seeing this? I'm hoping that it isn't my TV.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO isn't framed very well tonight, both on Adelphia Channel 17 and Dish network. The scoreboard is barely showing on the top of the screen. Are others seeing this? I'm hoping that it isn't my TV.



The scoreboard strip does look just a tiny bit higher than normal on my set.

It's still fully visible when I'm looking at the set straight-on though. Since the set

is a little bit overscanned, the top of the strip gets cut off by the set's bezel

if I watch it standing up.


----------



## Rijax

The scoreboard does seem to be a bit higher than in the recent past. On my set it's still completely in the picture, about 1/2 inch below the bezel edge. I like it at this height.


----------



## Inundated

All the Indians runs overfilled the scoreboard.










Didn't notice anything here...Adelphia 179.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO isn't framed very well tonight, both on Adelphia Channel 17 and Dish network. The scoreboard is barely showing on the top of the screen. Are others seeing this? I'm hoping that it isn't my TV.



JT, since you have both E* and Adelphia, do you see any other differences in the PQ?

For example do the graphics have a "sparkly" appearence? This is most noticable on the Ricoh commercial (the cartoon of 2 guys at a water cooler). The white shirts have the same sparkly appearence only more so since there is a larger area of white in the picture. I saw the same commercial on STO via COX Cable and the "vibrating whites" were not seen.


I believe E* has the video level of STO cranked too high.


I did not have a problem with the scoreboard on my 27" Sony Trinitron.


----------



## jtscherne

Yes I saw the sparkling on E* last night. I didn't watch the Adelphia PQ for long since the game wasn't in HD and I was just looking at the scoreboard. I'll check tonight.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm on WOW and noticed that during today's Indians/Tigers game on STO, the audio on the digital channel 221 was slightly out of sync, while there was no audio sync problem on the analog channel 72. It also seems to me that on the digital channel there was some slight "frame strobing" aka "I can see the individual frames" when you looked directly at the baseball when thrown or looked closely at the bat when the bat was swung. (today's game was in SD, not HD) Anybody else notice this on the other systems?



OK, talkin' to myself here







...


The audio on WOW digital STO 221 is out of sync, but -- tonight the audio is AHEAD of the video by a wee bit. Whoa... I can hear the ball hitting the bat BEFORE it's hit, and I just heard Hanford Dixon finish his sentence on the commercial BEFORE his lips stopped moving. Weird.


Also getting occasional breakups on the DD5.1 audio both in game and during commercial.


Edit: To clarify, on my previous post re the Tigers game, the audio was BEHIND the video.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Edit: To clarify, on my previous post re the Tigers game, the audio was BEHIND the video.



You should really talk to WOW about this. It's not an STO issue. WOW is apparently upconverting the analog/SD feed onto 221 and having problems with this...STO is not sending out an HDTV feed (even digital/upconverted) during away games, as far as I know. Adelphia, as far as I know, feeds its own digital/SD 179 from the main STO feed.


----------



## Inundated

Folks in Cleveland's southeastern suburbs or in Akron/Canton - it appears WKBN-DT has lit up its digital signal. Well, it appears so because I'm watching it right now in Akron.










Point your OTA receivers at 41 and your antennas towards Youngstown and see if you can get it. I'm in northwest Akron with an amplified indoor antenna pointing roughly at the WKBN tower and the signal is JUST enough to lock and provide a non-breaking-up picture. YMMV.


WKBN is likely testing things, and it could well go on and off repeatedly until they are done.


The PSIP info is wrong - the 27-1 (WKBN) information is for NBC's Jay Leno! 27-2 is an SD feed of WKBN sister station WYFX, until now formerly only on two LPTVers ("FOX 17/62").


More details on the Youngstown thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7516348


----------



## jtscherne

I did a side-by-side comparison last night. E* is definitely cranking it up too high. The whites are sparkling a great deal on Dish. Adelphia's video is normal. Of course, I haven't the slightest idea who to contact about it at Dish!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> JT, since you have both E* and Adelphia, do you see any other differences in the PQ?
> 
> For example do the graphics have a "sparkly" appearence? This is most noticable on the Ricoh commercial (the cartoon of 2 guys at a water cooler). The white shirts have the same sparkly appearence only more so since there is a larger area of white in the picture. I saw the same commercial on STO via COX Cable and the "vibrating whites" were not seen.
> 
> 
> I believe E* has the video level of STO cranked too high.
> 
> 
> I did not have a problem with the scoreboard on my 27" Sony Trinitron.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, talkin' to myself here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Also getting occasional breakups on the DD5.1 audio both in game and during commercial.




My receiver shows Dolby 2.0 on Adelphia 179. Are you sure your getting a 5.1 signal, or does it just say "Dolby Digital"?


I didn't see much of the game last night but picture on 179 Adelphia looked go on my 30" Sony Wega.


----------



## jtscherne

I think only the HD games are in 5.1 (or 5.0 so far, as we all know!)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My receiver shows Dolby 2.0 on Adelphia 179. Are you sure your getting a 5.1 signal, or does it just say "Dolby Digital"?
> 
> 
> I didn't see much of the game last night but picture on 179 Adelphia looked go on my 30" Sony Wega.



My receiver says something like "Dolby D EX" when I'm tuned to a DD 5.1 station, otherwise it says something like "Dolby PL II" on the front.


Indundated, I'm a little confused, I would think WOW would be picking up STO off a satellite in a "digital" format whether the broadcast was SD or HD and just passing that through. Why would WOW need to re-encode the SD satellite feed to put it on Channel 221 ? On the SD games on channel 221, I get a non-stretched 4:3 picture with black pillars on either side to fill the 16:9 frame, so maybe WOW is re-encoding this to add the black pillars?


----------



## lefkas

Is WEAO/WNEO broadcasting in hi-def OTA yet ? I only get a digital signal with bars when I tune in.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Indundated, I'm a little confused, I would think WOW would be picking up STO off a satellite in a "digital" format whether the broadcast was SD or HD and just passing that through. Why would WOW need to re-encode the SD satellite feed to put it on Channel 221 ? On the SD games on channel 221, I get a non-stretched 4:3 picture with black pillars on either side to fill the 16:9 frame, so maybe WOW is re-encoding this to add the black pillars?



WOW is reencoding something. My guess is that 221 is set up on their end to handle the HD games, and they don't properly adjust it to pick up the non-HD games. A guess, since I don't know much about the hardware here - the audio encoding is set to handle 5.1 (5.0







) from the HD feed, and they don't adjust the audio to handle the 2.0 coming out of the "analog" feed, causing the lip sync problems you've reported.


Anyway, my general point is that the problem is at WOW's end...we're not having a problem with the digital SD games on Adelphia 179.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Folks in Cleveland's southeastern suburbs or in Akron/Canton - it appears WKBN-DT has lit up its digital signal. Well, it appears so because I'm watching it right now in Akron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Point your OTA receivers at 41 and your antennas towards Youngstown and see if you can get it. I'm in northwest Akron with an amplified indoor antenna pointing roughly at the WKBN tower and the signal is JUST enough to lock and provide a non-breaking-up picture. YMMV.
> 
> 
> WKBN is likely testing things, and it could well go on and off repeatedly until they are done.
> 
> 
> The PSIP info is wrong - the 27-1 (WKBN) information is for NBC's Jay Leno! 27-2 is an SD feed of WKBN sister station WYFX, until now formerly only on two LPTVers ("FOX 17/62").
> 
> 
> More details on the Youngstown thread here:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7516348










Thanks for the heads up!







I've been checking 41 on my "add DT" screen on my 921 for several days, however I did not try last night. I'm about 10 miles INSIDE WKBN-DT's contour (as opposed to being outside the contour of WFMJ and WYTV)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Indundated, I'm a little confused, I would think WOW would be picking up STO off a satellite in a "digital" format whether the broadcast was SD or HD and just passing that through. Why would WOW need to re-encode the SD satellite feed to put it on Channel 221 ? On the SD games on channel 221, I get a non-stretched 4:3 picture with black pillars on either side to fill the 16:9 frame, so maybe WOW is re-encoding this to add the black pillars?



WOW is reencoding something. My guess is that 221 is set up on their end to handle the HD games, and they don't properly adjust it to pick up the non-HD games. A guess, since I don't know much about the hardware here - the audio encoding is set to handle 5.1 (5.0







) from the HD feed, and they don't adjust the audio to handle the 2.0 coming out of the "analog" feed, causing the lip sync problems you've reported.


Anyway, my general point is that the problem is at WOW's end...we're not having a problem with the digital SD games on Adelphia 179.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been checking 41 on my "add DT" screen on my 921 for several days, however I did not try last night. I'm about 10 miles INSIDE WKBN-DT's contour (as opposed to being outside the contour of WFMJ and WYTV)



WKBN-DT went off sometime in the 9 AM hour...presumably they'll be doing more work on it today. Try sometime this evening or tonight.


I get it with a middling signal but no problem encoding, behind a window with an indoor antenna pointed in the general direction of the Youngstown antenna farm south of downtown Y-Town...so if you have any decent antenna setup aimed there, you should be able to get it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WEAO/WNEO broadcasting in hi-def OTA yet ? I only get a digital signal with bars when I tune in.



As far as I know, WEAO-DT and WNEO-DT have not yet returned HD broadcasts.


When they do, they'd show up on 45-1 and 49-1 and only in prime-time.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as I know, WEAO-DT and WNEO-DT have not yet returned HD broadcasts.
> 
> 
> When they do, they'd show up on 45-1 and 49-1 and only in prime-time.



Every time I check 49-1 is "Create" a SD feed, even though the WNEO/WEAO web site states that they are running PBS-HD in prime time.


WVIZ is running PBS-HD, but you have to live in a 3 - 5 mile radius of Brookpark & State roads to even have a chance of locking onto WVIZ-DT


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every time I check 49-1 is "Create" a SD feed, even though the WNEO/WEAO web site states that they are running PBS-HD in prime time.



Apparently, they're still technically unable to put up PBS HD yet...but intend to do so. I wonder if Don Freeman from PBS 45 & 49 is still reading these boards?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every time I check 49-1 is "Create" a SD feed, even though the WNEO/WEAO web site states that they are running PBS-HD in prime time.



Apparently, they're still technically unable to put up PBS HD yet...but intend to do so. I wonder if Don Freeman from PBS 45 & 49 is still reading these boards?


----------



## salemtubes

If you're tired of waiting for 45/49 to start broadcasting in HD, give WOUC-DT, channel 35 a try. Their transmitter is east of Cambridge, OH. I live just outside the service contour in Salem and get a strong signal using a Channel Master 4228 antenna.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Apparently, they're still technically unable to put up PBS HD yet...but intend to do so. I wonder if Don Freeman from PBS 45 & 49 is still reading these boards?



Yes, Mr. Freeman - any updates on the status of PBS HD on PBS 45 & 49? Much of Northeast Ohio anxiously awaits your HD stream!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're tired of waiting for 45/49 to start broadcasting in HD, give WOUC-DT, channel 35 a try. Their transmitter is east of Cambridge, OH. I live just outside the service contour in Salem and get a strong signal using a Channel Master 4228 antenna.



We do have a poster who is south of Canton I believe who has reported good reception of WOUC-DT.


Unfortunately, I don't think this will help OP Michael in Parma. Parma is too far outside of the WOUC-DT coverage area and too close to Cleveland low-power analog Channel 35.


I intend to try WOUC-DT when I get my outdoor antenna rotor back in service. North Canton IS inside their coverage area!


----------



## paule123

Just received this morning on the STO mailing list:


******

Dear Paul,


Direct TV has made a decision "for the immediate future" in reference to the outer part of the Indians territory. They have decided to NOT pick up subscribers in the outer territory. For a complete list of zip codes that will see the Indians on Direct TV visit http://www.sportstimeohio.com .


For those of you residing in zip codes not listed you have no access to Cleveland Indians baseball on SportsTime Ohio from Direct TV. Your only option is to find an alternate cable or satellite provider. Please know that SportsTime Ohio has worked very hard to inform Los Angeles based Direct TV about the passion of the Indians fans. We are disappointed in their decision but respect the time they took in analyzing what they feel is best for their business.


We apologize for the inconvenience this caused many of you, however, now that a decision has been made we look forward to continuing to deliver a high quality production of Indians baseball to you including all home games in HD.


Sincerely,


Jim Liberatore

President

SportsTime Ohio

*****


I don't think this affects me personally in Shaker Heights, but might affect those of you in the outlying areas.


----------



## Gregg Loewen

I am not wanting to shill here....


One of your members in the North Olmsted area has booked my services and I have been putting him off a little until I could get additional bookings in the area. I have committed to coming in the last week of May to first week of June time frame.


You have spent a lot of money on your HD display, now dont you want it looking as accurate as possible?


For all bookings (at 275 and up) received this month LionAV is giving a FREE Ideal Lume back light.


Feel free to email or call with any questions or concerns.


Regards


Gregg Loewen
[email protected] 

201 232 3380


----------



## Rijax

Guys, Gregg has done my DLP twice, and I've been very satisfied with his work. He's a good guy who shows up on time and knows his stuff. I recommend him highly. (Gregg, send the check to my house, will ya?)



The last comment is a JOKE guys. My initial comment was unsolicited and is unrewarded.










P.S. I have an ideal-lume light (I didn't get it from Gregg, and he hasn't forgiven me), and I really like it a LOT!. Getting one free is a nice bonus.


----------



## rlockshin

I have had my sets calibrated by others and want to get it done by a true professional.Check out his website for more details and testimonials. I spent a lot of money on my HDTV and want the best possible picture


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't think this will help OP Michael in Parma. Parma is too far outside of the WOUC-DT coverage area and too close to Cleveland low-power analog Channel 35.



That's O.K., if I really wanted to see PBS HD all I have to do is aim my Silver Sensor out my back door to get WVIZ-DT. My comments re: WVIZ-DT were for anyone not lucky enough to live 3 miles from Brookpark & State. I'm there, but just barely. Perhaps WVIZ will come in better once I get on my roof to put up an outdoor antenna. I'd be the only one in the neighborhood with an outdoor antenna.







Eveyone else either has cable or rabbit ears. The row of towers along Ridgewood are due north of me. At night I can tell when the weather is bad because the tower lights dissappear in the fog.











BTW: CH 35 "The CAT" is on one of those towers (WBNX's).


----------



## Michael P 2341

WKBN-DT 41 is coming in strong here in Parma. I got a signal strenght of 103 (out of 125 on the E* scale) when I aimed my Silver Sensor out my living room window (aimed ESE). I get a lockable 70 when the "SS" is on top of the TV. In compairison the other Youngstown stations also hit 70, but they never lock.


This is great news for anyone wanting alternate NFL games without buying Sunday Ticket. Last season there were several times when WKBN and WYFX carried a different game than WOIO and WJW. At least one time last year WYFX (which is now on a SD subcarier of WKBN-DT) had an "early" FOX game when WJW had the "late" game - a FOX double header on a week when CBS had the real double header.


Over at DBS Forums there is a poster who compiles a list of which NFL games are carried by market, and then puts out a color-coded map of the U.S.


Even if you arn't a football fan, WKBN-DT's picture does not suffer from that strange pulsing that WOIO-DT has.


----------



## jtscherne

It may be weather-related. I know that under certain conditions I can get all the digital stations out of Detroit, especially during the summer... When I tried 41 here in South Euclid, I got Detroit's WXYZ, which shares the same digital frequency. It's possible that if I move the rotor, I might have better luck.


----------



## Inundated

I'm not getting WKBN-DT quite as good as Michael in Parma, and I'm a little closer (further south at any rate), but if I remember right, he's up on a hill with a good look down in that direction. I have a moderate clearing in the trees out that direction, but probably not good enough.


I had to move my amplified antenna out to my deck outside, and I'm getting WKBN-DT at 60-70% on my Fusion USB5 HDTV tuner. It breaks up every so often, but I could probably nudge that if I kept fiddling with it...which I'm not going to do, because I'm not keeping the antenna out there.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It may be weather-related. I know that under certain conditions I can get all the digital stations out of Detroit, especially during the summer... When I tried 41 here in South Euclid, I got Detroit's WXYZ, which shares the same digital frequency. It's possible that if I move the rotor, I might have better luck.



The good news for you is South Euclid is inside the 41 dbu contour, as am I in Parma. WKBN-DT is the only Youngstown station whose coverage map makes it into Lake Erie! As a matter of fact it also covers nearly all of the City of Cleveland proper, as well as Pittsburgh! That's one heck of a coverage area.


I'm willing to bet you have seen the last of WXYZ unless/untill the transition ends and they elect to return to rf ch 7 with their digital siganl. It would make sense for them to return to 7 since it takes less power on the VHF high band than UHF for the same coverage area (WJW has elected to return to 8 BTW and WOIO wants to stay on 10).


----------



## WKBN Chief

I am pleased to formally announce that WKBN-DT (Ch. 41) is on the air at the full power of 700 KW. It has been a grueling past few weeks, but equipment came in and contractors showed up and everything came together on time with many long work days. We do have a couple of minor issues to work out so please bear with us as we work on them, however I do welcome your feedback on signal quality and/or anything else on which you care to comment.


----------



## hookbill

I sure hope that WBNX does something in regards to carrying a digital signal before next season when it becomes CW. The last few recordings I've made of WB shows have had a terrible buzzing noise in them. Very distracting.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I sure hope that WBNX does something in regards to carrying a digital signal before next season when it becomes CW. The last few recordings I've made of WB shows have had a terrible buzzing noise in them. Very distracting.



From what I've heard, they're basically ready to put it up whenever the FCC approves their CP.


Back in February, WBNX submitted an amendment to the WBNX-DT application, detailing how their beam antenna would provide protection to the Canadian operation on DT 30. They've long said that the Canadians gave "verbal approval" for the arrangement...they just needed to crunch the numbers and show the FCC in technical terms, I guess.


I'd be surprised if they aren't up by the July 2006 deadline, and certainly by the time the CW starts in September, but that's just a guess. They are certainly aware of it and certainly planning to do HD.

http://www.wbnx.com/trends.htm


----------



## Phoenix2088

I believe the amendment was made back in 2005 as the letter WBNX sent the FCC regarding the situation is dated January 2005. Basically the FCC is sitting on their asses, but as Inundated said WBNX is ready to go full digital and in HD whenever they are granted the construction permit. All of the equipment, from what I have been told by the station, is already in place. Hopefully with the launch of The CW coming up, Winston Broadcasting's lawyers will be on the FCC's heads until they budge.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe the amendment was made back in 2005 as the letter WBNX sent the FCC regarding the situation is dated January 2005.



I did some digging in the WBNX-DT application, and found the latest update was indeed February of THIS year.


According to this information page, the latest amendment was marked received by the FCC on 2/23/06:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...ion_id=1114637 


Here's the most recent iteration of the application, with a 2/22/06 date signed by WBNX president Lou Spangler:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...&fac_num=72958 


It has attachments at the bottom, including a new "Comprehensive Technical Document", and a technical document specifically addressing the antenna beam tilt issue.


And here's the wording that explains the 2/22/06 amendment:



> Quote:
> THIS AMENDMENT IS SUBMITTED TO CHANGE THE ELECTRICAL BEAM TILT, MECHANICAL BEAM TILT AND AZIMUTH PATTERN OF THE PROPOSED DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA. SECTION III-D, QUESTIONS 10B, 10C AND SUBFORM 10E ARE AMENDED. NEW EXHIBITS 40 (MECHANICAL BEAM TILT DATA), 41 (ANTENNA PATTERN DATA) AND 44 (COMPREHENSIVE TECHNICAL DOCUMENT) ARE PROVIDED TO DOCUMENT THE CHANGES. NO OTHER CHANGES ARE MADE HEREIN.



I only go into such detail to explain that WBNX-DT apparently was told by someone in the FCC to add this more specific technical data. I'm not an engineer, so I could be guessing wrong at some of this, but there has certainly been activity on WBNX's part with the FCC since that letter in 2005...


----------



## hookbill

OK, so WBNX gets itself into full digital gear by next season. I wonder how long it will take Adelphia to 1. Make it availabe to us to receive in HD and 2. Make a digital channel available to us as well.


Of course by that time it may be TW but that seems to be moving at a snails pace.


----------



## jtscherne

Given that they still don't offer WUAB-DT, it could be a long time...


If it isn't Time Warner by July 31st, all bets might be off. That's the current deadline to get the deal done. There have been a number of articles about the problems from shareholders and various other groups who aren't satisfied with the deal.


----------



## Telosian

Great news WKBN Chief! Thanks for the update and for being here on the forum. I'm sure we will all post feedback for you. I am in Gates Mills and on Adelphia but will crank up the OTA today and report back to you on how you look way up here. Thanks for all the hard work hope your signal comes in for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Given that they still don't offer WUAB-DT, it could be a long time...



Not quite. WUAB is available on digital signal on Adelphia. True, they don't offer a HD channel but they do carry it's digital signal.


Since WBNX doesn't have anything but analog as of now, there is no digital signal to carry.


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, Mr. Freeman - any updates on the status of PBS HD on PBS 45 & 49? Much of Northeast Ohio anxiously awaits your HD stream!



We are still working on a permanent solution to getting HD back on our schedule. As I indicated in a previous posting, the problem is a combination of hardware, software and broadcast rights. I'm with people from our PBS 45 & 49 engineering and IT departments at the National Association of Broadcasters Convention so we can review new hardware that will be more flexible than our current digital encoder. We will also be talking with executives from our automation software and routing equipment companies to push for a solution to those interface problems. That just leaves finding the money to acquire the HD rights from PBS. I've been talking to PBS Programming about our situation and I may have a solution to that soon, too.

I have tried to stay away from promising a quick solution to what, on the face of it, appeared to be a simple problem. If we could have been broadcasting HD since we last did in October I assure you we would have. But broadcasting digital HD, and multiple SD channels, is challenging for the entire industry. Stations like PBS 45 & 49 with our smaller staff and dollars are especially vulnerable to disruptions like this.

I hope you will continue to be enthusiastic about the superb video and audio capabilities of HD programming in our schedule. Until that returns, I encourage you to continue your support of our four multicast SD channels.


Don Freeman

Director of Programming and Operations

PBS 45 & 49


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to this information page, the latest amendment was marked received by the FCC on 2/23/06



I should have done a little more searching, good find there!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I should have done a little more searching, good find there!



I check the WBNX application about once a week or so, just to see if there's anything new on it. Actually, I'm mostly looking for that little "APP" to turn into a "CP".










And thanks for the detailed answer to the HD question for 45/49, Mr. Freeman! Best of luck to you in resolving all of the issues.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I had my first WKBN-DT sighting last night. Actually, it was good reception in general last night, as I was getting WFMJ-DT with 5 bars on my signal strength meter (usually, I get 2 bars, 3 or 4 at the best).


But it gets better.







I was flipping through channels and noticed that channel 19 analog was getting a lot of interference. On closer examination, I realized that I was receiving a 2nd channel underneath WOIO. I was able to make out a KDKA weather graphic! Of course, KDKA analog is channel 2 out of Pittsburgh. I later noticed a UPN logo on the same channel. Perhaps channel 19 is the UPN affiliate in Pittsburgh?


So I started tuning through the channels in order and sure enough, I was receiving the Pittsburgh analog stations fairly strongly - 4 (ABC), 11 (NBC), 13 (PBS). I was also getting Steubenville (9) and Wheeling (7). I was even receiving a good picture on channel 12 from Erie!


But it gets better (really)!







I got up to channel 29 and all of a sudden, I locked on to a digital station! It remapped to channel 8, with a -1 and -2 subchannel. I tuned to my newfound 8-2 and punched up the PSIP data and it identified as WATM-DT. I had a solid lock on this channel for about 10 minutes (this was about 10:30 last night) and intermittent lock for about another 10 minutes. As I watched , the station IDed on the air as ABC23 and I watched a commercial for an Altoona, PA business!







Sure enough, WATM is an Altoona, PA station - that is about 150 miles from North Canton. And the kicker is - my antenna was pointed toward Cleveland the whole time (broken antenna rotor)!


Bottom line - there were some crazy atmospheric conditions last night that allowed good DXing to the east. If you received WKBN-DT last night, it may have been due to these conditions.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bottom line - there were some crazy atmospheric conditions last night that allowed good DXing to the east. If you received WKBN-DT last night, it may have been due to these conditions.



Looks like the tropo is kicking up early!


I haven't been able to get WKBN-DT with my indoor antenna out the back window since that first night...I have to take it outside and balance it on my deck










BTW, the station formerly known as WNPA on channel 19 is indeed Pittsburgh's UPN affiliate, licensed to Jeannette, PA. I believe it's changed calls to WPCW in honor of its CW affiliation in the fall...


----------



## rlockshin

How do I pick up 27-1 on DTV. I set up both of my receivers to Ytwn secondary market. Neither receiver had 27-1 listed in the guide. Channel cannot be scanned in unless it is loaded in guide. I have H20-600 and Sammy 160

Can I pick it up in W Akron near Medina county line ?

Thanks


----------



## geocab

Wow! I just borrowed a friends Voom! receiver and all of my OTA channels came in great. I've had a Samsung SIR-151 for a couple of years and it doesn't receive my signals very well. I didn't know if it was the receiver or the antenna. Now I know. So, I just bid on a Voom! tuner on ebay, but I'm very nervous about receiving a bad unit. The anticipation is going to kill me. The listing seems ok, but the seller has sold a few of these in the past few months with the same item desciption. I didn't think to look at his past sales unitl after I bid on the item. He does have 100% positive feedback.


Would any of you be paranoid as well?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How do I pick up 27-1 on DTV. I set up both of my receivers to Ytwn secondary market. Neither receiver had 27-1 listed in the guide. Channel cannot be scanned in unless it is loaded in guide. I have H20-600 and Sammy 160
> 
> Can I pick it up in W Akron near Medina county line ?
> 
> Thanks



You might be a bit far out to get it, depending on your antenna and other factors. I'm a few miles east of you, and I get it on my indoor antenna with a lot of adjustment. (Tonight, I'm getting it again inside!)


Others will have to help you with the OTA channels on D* receivers. I have no idea how they let you add channels if they're not listed in the D* guide, or IF they will.


----------



## txguy

There are some references to the "Signal strength meter" on HD sets. That's not a measurement of the RF getting to the set. More like a "quality" arbitrary reading. In other words, you can have a lot of RF hitting the receiver but if it's getting bounced around inside a room from an indoor antenna or hitting buildings and bouncing to an outdoor antenna, the meter reading on the set will be low or none.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Others will have to help you with the OTA channels on D* receivers. I have no idea how they let you add channels if they're not listed in the D* guide, or IF they will.



I'm not sure how to add channels on any other D* receivers other than my Sony HD200, but all you have to do is either manually add a channel # (the actual broadcast channel, not the PSIP channel) or re-scan the OTA band. It'll gladly let you add as many OTA stations as you receive -- even if they're not in the D* guide.


Check under your setup menu for a channel setup or something similar. The options should be in there.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *txguy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are some references to the "Signal strength meter" on HD sets. That's not a measurement of the RF getting to the set. More like a "quality" arbitrary reading. In other words, you can have a lot of RF hitting the receiver but if it's getting bounced around inside a room from an indoor antenna or hitting buildings and bouncing to an outdoor antenna, the meter reading on the set will be low or none.
> 
> Just thought I'd throw that out there.



You are very correct. I don't know exactly what they measure, but from the experience I've had they are more like bit-error-rate (BER) meters. They look at the quality of the bitstream rather than signal strength. It is a much better way to tune digital receivers. In certain circumstances where there is too much RF I've gotten better "signal" readings by mistuning the antenna or by adding attenuators on the antenna lead. With digital, more is not necessarily better. That's why these people that have preamps and live 10 miles from an antenna farm have so many problems.


----------



## txguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are very correct. I don't know exactly what they measure, but from the experience I've had they are more like bit-error-rate (BER) meters. They look at the quality of the bitstream rather than signal strength. It is a much better way to tune digital receivers. In certain circumstances where there is too much RF I've gotten better "signal" readings by mistuning the antenna or by adding attenuators on the antenna lead. With digital, more is not necessarily better. That's why these people that have preamps and live 10 miles from an antenna farm have so many problems.



Right on!!


----------



## Inundated

WKBN-DT is back with my indoor antenna placement. Maybe Bob Fils or Tom Zocolo can answer this - how do weather conditions affect such things? Is it easier to receive a distant station when there's cloud cover, sunshine or what?


Just got done watching "FOX 17/62 First News at 10" or whatever they call the WYFX version of "27 First News" and was reminded that WTAM/1100 parttimer Chad Krispinsky does their weekend sports...


Now, us ID geeks can't wait to see "WKBN-DT Youngstown" added to the "WYFX-LP Youngstown/WFXI-CA Mercer" ID on the slides.


----------



## hookbill

The sound was clear crisp and sharp, but what a waste of Dolby 5.1. I didn't hear a thing out of my rear speakers. I tried boosting the signal as high as I could get it to go and got nothing.


You compare this with almost any other HD sportscast and it's just a dissapointment. Come on, STO you've got 5 speakers. Use them. Make me feel like I'm in the middle of the crowd.


I find the same true of STO's HD broadcast, though from time to time I though I heard a bit of the crowd in the rear speakers.


I switched at 4:30 to watch the Dodgers play on MLB EI and my Pro Logic II did a better job then WKYC's Dolby 5.1. Outcome was better too.


----------



## rrobbins




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow! I just borrowed a friends Voom! receiver and all of my OTA channels came in great. I've had a Samsung SIR-151 for a couple of years and it doesn't receive my signals very well. I didn't know if it was the receiver or the antenna. Now I know. So, I just bid on a Voom! tuner on ebay, but I'm very nervous about receiving a bad unit. The anticipation is going to kill me. The listing seems ok, but the seller has sold a few of these in the past few months with the same item desciption. I didn't think to look at his past sales unitl after I bid on the item. He does have 100% positive feedback.
> 
> 
> Would any of you be paranoid as well?



I have a Voom reciever that is yours for the taking.


----------



## geocab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rrobbins* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Voom reciever that is yours for the taking.



I sent you a PM.


----------



## HDTD

Word out here at the National Association of Broadcasters Convention in Las Vegas is that WEWS is also jumping into the HD news race. Making Cleveland the only town to have three HD news casts. WJW, WKYC (coming soon) and WEWS (on the drawing boards).


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The sound was clear crisp and sharp, but what a waste of Dolby 5.1. I didn't hear a thing out of my rear speakers. I tried boosting the signal as high as I could get it to go and got nothing.
> 
> 
> You compare this with almost any other HD sportscast and it's just a dissapointment. Come on, STO you've got 5 speakers. Use them. Make me feel like I'm in the middle of the crowd.
> 
> 
> I find the same true of STO's HD broadcast, though from time to time I though I heard a bit of the crowd in the rear speakers.
> 
> 
> I switched at 4:30 to watch the Dodgers play on MLB EI and my Pro Logic II did a better job then WKYC's Dolby 5.1. Outcome was better too.



I'm not an audio person by any means, but I honestly don't think STO has the equipment to do the full 5.1 surround. I think they're very limited with their baseball audio board.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not an audio person by any means, but I honestly don't think STO has the equipment to do the full 5.1 surround. I think they're very limited with their baseball audio board.



I'm not an audio engineer either but my commen sense says if your capable of sending out 5.1 (or as in the STO broadcast, 5.0) you should have an engineer who can turn a knob to put some sound in the rear speakers.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Unless they are using antique audio gear, they should be able to do a 5.1 mix by routing a stereo pair of "ambiance" mics to a pair of subchannels. Most audio boards have at least 8 subchannels to use for this purpose.


The STO crew seems to be just learning how to do audio for a baseball broadcast. For example the sound of the baseball hitting the catcher's mit is turned up so loud that the whole audio level "ducks" (drops down so as not to go over the maximum audio peak level). The ducking sometimes affects the first words spoken by the comentators.


OTOH They seem to have other aspects of baseball TV audio down: when they show the camera in the bullpen the mics in the bullpen come on (so you can hear the baseball hit the catcher's mit while warm-ups are in progress) and go back off as soon as the shot changes.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like the tropo is kicking up early!
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to get WKBN-DT with my indoor antenna out the back window since that first night...I have to take it outside and balance it on my deck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, the station formerly known as WNPA on channel 19 is indeed Pittsburgh's UPN affiliate, licensed to Jeannette, PA. I believe it's changed calls to WPCW in honor of its CW affiliation in the fall...



You are right about channel 19 in Jeannette, PA. I found out that it has the same ownership as KDKA (CBS Station Group or something like that), which explains the KDKA weather graphic that I saw. Apparently, KDKA produces WPCW's 10:00 newscast.


Isn't tropo great?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are right about channel 19 in Jeannette, PA. I found out that it has the same ownership as KDKA (CBS Station Group or something like that), which explains the KDKA weather graphic that I saw. Apparently, KDKA produces WPCW's 10:00 newscast.
> 
> 
> Isn't tropo great?



Yep, though I've pretty much never experienced it for TV! I did for FM once. I was receiving an FM station just across the PA/OH border in my home on the other side of Akron, near Wadsworth. That doesn't sound much until you realize it was a 3,000 watt station about 75 miles east...which normally doesn't make it anywhere near here.


And KDKA produces the "UPN Pittsburgh" (to be CW) 10 PM cast much like WOIO/19 produces the 10 PM news on WUAB/43. Same situation.


----------



## HDTD

WJW's SkyFox helicopter was at NAB convention in Las Vegas this week, and it's outfitted with a FLIR HD camera/housing, and HD microwave transmission gear. Salesman with US Helicopter said they should go HD with it in June, I thought they'd push for May with sweeps.


----------



## eml626

Does anyone have any information on the Cavs playoff games in HD on Adelphia on any ch. other then ESPN (which in my opinion is worse then both fsn and tnt HD)?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any information on the Cavs playoff games in HD on Adelphia on any ch. other then ESPN (which in my opinion is worse then both fsn and tnt HD)?



Nope, as far as I know.


WUAB/43 is carrying some playoff games (no HD) and FSN Ohio is carrying some others.


FSN Ohio's games will not, as far as I know, be in HD. Even if Adelphia had TNT HD, it'd probably be blacked out in favor of FSN Ohio (local rights, not contingent on HD coverage).


Here's the overall schedule:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/fi...tv_060421.html 


FSN Ohio gets two games, tonight and May 3 (if necessary).


ABC would likely telecast Game 7 (if necessary) on May 7, and that'd probably be in HD.


----------



## Dweezilz

I'll let you guys know if it's on Dish TNT HD tonight. I'm keeping my Dish around until the playoffs are done, then it's gone since my 811 reciever can only get the older channels & not anything they add going forward.


----------



## Dweezilz

Unfortunately, it was indeed on TNT-HD. It might have been better if it was blacked out!


----------



## Argee

ANyone getting tonights tribe game in HD on adelphia?


----------



## brh-z2

No HD here in Adelphia Land (macedonia). Kinda funy that they just spashed the HD banner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ANyone getting tonights tribe game in HD on adelphia?



Nope, getting the gray screen, on Adelphia 798.


Anybody else on other systems having problems?


----------



## brh-z2

Looks like its back online.


----------



## EricG

I've got DirecTV, no STO in HD, but they blacked out the ESPN HD Channel for the Indians tonight. That Stinks!


----------



## geocab

Well, thanks to rrobin's generosity, I now am a part of the HD era! In 480p res because Fedex stiffed me on my new projector this morning.







But, just being able to see what I should have tomorrow is very cool indeed. All of the normal locals come in great. 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, and 43. I don't have a strong enough signal for 55 yet, but I didn't have a chance to go on the roof to adjust the antenna a little bit.


I do have a quick question. Am I the only one who is having problems with Channel 3's aspect ratios? I was watching Dateline before I came up here to post and it seems like it should be 4:3. Everyone seemed stretched out. Same thing with Deal or No Deal. And the commercials for Crossing Jordan, Vegas, etc. has black bars on top and bottom. My other stations were fine, leading me to believe that 3 is the problem, but since I'm new to this, I may be over looking something. How's everyone else's 3?


Anyway, I am very happy to finally have a working tuner so I can take advantage of the HT equipment.


Thanks, rrobins!

Geo


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do have a quick question. Am I the only one who is having problems with Channel 3's aspect ratios? I was watching Dateline before I came up here to post and it seems like it should be 4:3. Everyone seemed stretched out. Same thing with Deal or No Deal. And the commercials for Crossing Jordan, Vegas, etc. has black bars on top and bottom. My other stations were fine, leading me to believe that 3 is the problem, but since I'm new to this, I may be over looking something. How's everyone else's 3?



WKYC stretches everything on it's HD channel that is not HD.


----------



## geocab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC stretches everything on it's HD channel that is not HD.



Ok, thanks. I think that's pretty silly







, but at least the problem isn't on my end.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC stretches everything on it's HD channel that is not HD.




I've complained about this I don't know how many times. They just don't get it!


I've been told multiple times when I've called that their General Manager likes it that way. Why, I have no idea.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't have a strong enough signal for 55 yet, but I didn't have a chance to go on the roof to adjust the antenna a little bit.



If you're going to go up on the roof to adjust the antenna to get the digital signal out of WBNX/55, you should probably wait a couple or three months or so. They're not even on the air on WBNX-DT yet, due to long-discussed-here issues with coordinating their signal with a Canadian station.


Other than that...sounds good!


----------



## eml626

Yeah the no TNT issue on adelphia is horrible come playoff time, I just hate watching the games in SD on my HD TV's knowing what my digi cable bill is every month. Hopefully when TWC takes over we will benefit from gaining their hd lineup. However, lets hope it doesn't work in reverse with us dropping espn2 and a few premiums. No idea why warner has no espn2 hd when the added espn it wa slike 2 days before espn2 launched you would figure that would have contracted for boh. Especially since consumers pay monthly for the channels. Hell I know cable companies fought for this insain law not forcing them to carry every channel to come out in digi to save bandwidth that would be used on gospil radio and music video channel 5, but really is there any reason not to have all the HD channels? Think about it TNT if you authorized adelphia to carry your channel and had them charge consumers $5 a month for just your channel people like me would pay because whats another $5 for a channel I have playing a good part of the day. You are already incurring the expense of broadcasting in HD make a little money while you are negotiating w/ bad cable providers like ours. Just my 2 cents. Until then I will just keep going to the Cavs games, but one would have hoped FSN ohio or a tleast abc would have gotten sundays away game and put it in hd for the cleveland viewers. Not to mention how horrible adelphia's feed is on 61 and they can't/ won't fix. Warner would tar apart all your cable lines and replace before you go t another company if enough people complain. Had an entire appartment/condo complex rewired in columbus, analog picture quality was as clsoe to digi as u will ever see.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're going to go up on the roof to adjust the antenna to get the digital signal out of WBNX/55, you should probably wait a couple or three months or so. They're not even on the air on WBNX-DT yet, due to long-discussed-here issues with coordinating their signal with a Canadian station.



The issues are OVER! The FCC has granted WBNX a construction permit for digital channel 30 (UHF).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WBNX-TV


----------



## geocab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The issues are OVER! The FCC has granted WBNX a construction permit for digital channel 30 (UHF).
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WBNX-TV



Ok, they just aren't up and running yet. Makes sense. Well, it looks like I'll take a little longer before I retire that VCR.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The issues are OVER! The FCC has granted WBNX a construction permit for digital channel 30 (UHF).
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WBNX-TV



There we go! Finally. It looks like the beam tilt stuff they filed in February pushed it over the top.


----------



## Michael P 2341

It should be intersting to see if there will be any adjacent channel interference with WJW. The two towers are only about 2 miles apart.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There we go! Finally. It looks like the beam tilt stuff they filed in February pushed it over the top.



Great! Now all we have to do is wait a little bit longer and then we can not watch WBNX on DT as well as analog.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great! Now all we have to do is wait a little bit longer and then we can not watch WBNX on DT as well as analog.













I'm not really a regular watcher of either WBNX or anything currently offered by The WB - I'm a tad out of their usual demographic target - but I still think it's good that another DT and HDTV station is going on.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It should be intersting to see if there will be any adjacent channel interference with WJW. The two towers are only about 2 miles apart.



From what I understand, broadcasting digitally from adjacent channels is OK as long as the sticks are in fairly close proximity - the closer, the better. Two miles sounds a bit far, but is probably still OK. Of course, WJW-DT will go back to channel 8 after analog shutoff, rendering that issue moot after 2009.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not really a regular watcher of either WBNX or anything currently offered by The WB - I'm a tad out of their usual demographic target - but I still think it's good that another DT and HDTV station is going on.



Well, I'm more out of their target then you are and I watch Smallville and Supernatural. Matter of fact Supernatural plays great classic rock, which surprises me since I know that's not the audience they are shooting for. I personally can't wait until they go digital, I just hope Adelphia makes it available at least digitally soon.


----------



## peter1377

I have Dish Network and lately they've been blocking out a lot of Indians games on ESPN (or ESPN2) in favor of STO. Does anyone know if tonight's Cavs game will be blocked out on ESPN because of the coverage on WUAB? The program guide does NOT have the little circle with a line through it symbol like when a show is blocked out for an area, but I just wanted to make sure because I'm having friends over and would obviously rather watch it on ESPN-HD than crappy WUAB.


thanks.


----------



## k2rj

If WUAB is getting their feed from ESPN (like often happens when ESPN carries a local football game), ESPN shouldn't be blacked out.


----------



## rlockshin

NBA is different than MLB. We always get both feeds on NBA. ESPNand FSN or WUAB

MLB games on ESPN are blacked out i shown on STO

It has always been that way


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah the last few ESPN-HD games with the Cavs have been shown & not blacked out on Dish (or Adelphia). I'd bet that'll be the case tonight.


----------



## Inundated

ESPN is not blacked out for Cavs/Wizards tonight, at least on Adelphia.


----------



## paule123

ESPN-HD not blacked out on WOW either.


On another note - on WOW, they show the Indians replay game on the SD channel but not on the HD channel -- what about Adelphia and the other systems ?


P.S.: Went to the Tribe game Thursday night, and they show the game in HD on the multiple plasmas in the Club Lounge


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On another note - on WOW, they show the Indians replay game on the SD channel but not on the HD channel -- what about Adelphia and the other systems ?



Same with Adelphia - replay only on digital (SD) 179. Not on 17, and not on 798.


179 would appear to directly take the satellite feed from STO without switching, as it comes up with "No signal" outside of STO programming. 17 gets switched to the community bulletin board after live Tribe games, and 798 gets switched to the static billboard for the next HD event (in this case, tomorrow's Indians game).


----------



## paule123

Another curious thing about STO - during the Kansas City series, game 2 was SD on STO, but when watching game 3 on WKYC in HD, they showed highlights of game 2 in HD - so I'm getting the impression that ALL the games are being shot in HD but for some reason the AWAY games are not being passed to us live in HD except for the WKYC games.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another curious thing about STO - during the Kansas City series, game 2 was SD on STO, but when watching game 3 on WKYC in HD, they showed highlights of game 2 in HD - so I'm getting the impression that ALL the games are being shot in HD but for some reason the AWAY games are not being passed to us live in HD except for the WKYC games.



I wouldn't guess that. I'd guess that the HD truck may have been there for the game right before the WKYC game, but I wouldn't assume it was there for the entire series.


Just a guess, tho.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't guess that. I'd guess that the HD truck may have been there for the game right before the WKYC game, but I wouldn't assume it was there for the entire series.
> 
> 
> Just a guess, tho.




Because of ease of set-up and tear down, depending on availability of HD trucks, it's typically easier just to keep the HD truck there the whole series (even if only one game actually airs in HD). They have a contract for their away games with a truck company that has one HD truck and two SD trucks, so it's most likely they just parked the truck there for the series.


They may also be able to bring home highlights for use in the studio shows, called a "melt." That's something as simple as bringing a DVCPRO-HD tape, or X-File disk drive.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Because of ease of set-up and tear down, depending on availability of HD trucks, it's typically easier just to keep the HD truck there the whole series (even if only one game actually airs in HD). They have a contract for their away games with a truck company that has one HD truck and two SD trucks, so it's most likely they just parked the truck there for the series.



But, if the HD truck is there, why do they not air the game in HD? Is it satellite issues, or the fact they didn't know they were going to have the HD truck to air the away game in HD, or just that STO isn't doing away games in HD for now and it's easier that way?


Or a combo of the above?










(One from column A...)


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But, if the HD truck is there, why do they not air the game in HD? Is it satellite issues, or the fact they didn't know they were going to have the HD truck to air the away game in HD, or just that STO isn't doing away games in HD for now and it's easier that way?
> 
> 
> Or a combo of the above?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (One from column A...)




Satellite/fiber transmission. It's pretty expensive. I don't know the actual numbers, I'll find out, but I want to say it's near double/triple the cost. The other question is how is the truck deal worked. Maybe they're only paying for the HD truck for the one day, but the truck company comps them the HD truck for the SD rate the other days that they're not paying for HD because it's easier for the truck company to keep it parked.


I think full HD for STO is not far off. It would have been great if they started initially with all HD, but I'm happy we have this much. With the Red Sox and Yankees doing more road HD games I think it's inevitable that the new network will be all HD within the next few years. Especially as more HD trucks roll out and transmission costs come down.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WJW's SkyFox helicopter was at NAB convention in Las Vegas this week, and it's outfitted with a FLIR HD camera/housing, and HD microwave transmission gear. Salesman with US Helicopter said they should go HD with it in June, I thought they'd push for May with sweeps.



I walked past that chopper and took a picture of it. Had I realized that it was Fox-8's I would've taken a few more shots of it and the FLIR in particular.










I came away from the show with the sense that if your next camera purchase isn't HD, you might as well be shooting in black and white. We seem to be at the cusp of a massive wave of modestly priced HD gear, so we should be seeing a lot more locally produced HD content soon.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think full HD for STO is not far off. It would have been great if they started initially with all HD, but I'm happy we have this much. With the Red Sox and Yankees doing more road HD games I think it's inevitable that the new network will be all HD within the next few years. Especially as more HD trucks roll out and transmission costs come down.



I believe STO intends to do all games in HD in 2007. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.


Thank you for the insight!


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I walked past that chopper and took a picture of it. Had I realized that it was Fox-8's I would've taken a few more shots of it and the FLIR in particular.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I came away from the show with the sense that if your next camera purchase isn't HD, you might as well be shooting in black and white. We seem to be at the cusp of a massive wave of modestly priced HD gear, so we should be seeing a lot more locally produced HD content soon.



I could count on my hand the stuff I saw only in SD. Most of which were from companies I doubt will be around at NAB '07 or '08.


It's funny I told my Operations VP as I walked away from SkyFOX that I should have taken photos to post! I noticed it had the Helinet transmission equipment which is supposed to be pretty high bandwidth good quality HD. The only other alternative I know of is what Goodyear Blimp uses, a JVC encoder that uses it's existing analog microwave and a decoder at the dish.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe STO intends to do all games in HD in 2007. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.
> 
> 
> Thank you for the insight!




That'd be a great question to post for Jim Liberatore. I know he answered some questions on the one guys Ohio media board.


----------



## HDTD

The ESPN Sunday Night Baseball director told me Saturday that the Indians/Rangers game is "ESPN lite." With NBA playoffs going on they cut his cameras in half. Though still expect CableCam and a lot of the dugout POV cameras. Honestly, they probably have too many to begin with and you won't notice much of a difference at home.


----------



## stuart628

okay so I just did a quick rescan, and I know this is old, but I feel really really bad for youngstown fox/cbs channel (no hd) I guess we have it made here in cleveland!


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The ESPN Sunday Night Baseball director told me Saturday that the Indians/Rangers game is "ESPN lite." With NBA playoffs going on they cut his cameras in half. Though still expect CableCam and a lot of the dugout POV cameras. Honestly, they probably have too many to begin with and you won't notice much of a difference at home.




Indians looked great on ESPN HD. So many more camera angles we don't normally see. All the HD handheld cameras roaming the field, and going into the bullpen walking around. You'd think with STO being owned by the team they'd have this kind of access! STO doesn't even have the HD scenics outside the ballpark that make the city look so good (though they do have a supercool pole camera out in left field that looks great in HD).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay so I just did a quick rescan, and I know this is old, but I feel really really bad for youngstown fox/cbs channel (no hd) I guess we have it made here in cleveland!



There is HD on WKBN-DT, only just on the CBS side (27-1).


There is no HD on the FOX 17/62 side (27-2) because you can only fit one HD stream at a time.


Many folks in the Youngstown market have a shot at either WJW-DT or WPGH-DT for FOX in HD, particularly with a decent antenna.


I'm guessing that the next time FOX has the Super Bowl, the station could temporarily reverse the situation (CBS in SD, FOX in HD), but if that's possible technically, it would probably take something that big. Or maybe if the Indians went to the World Series again.


----------



## stuart628

Yeah I saw I spoke too soon on that one, but still, I would be pitching a fit, Fox and CBS are some of the most watched Hd in my house. I dont think this will happen but sundays should be good if Youngstown has different football games on ( I dont think they do) but, anyways thanks for correcting me, and sorry I didnt edit that quick enough, I still feel bad though as like I said that is 80% of our viewage is both Fox and CBS. by the way hookbill how has your cable been? My time warner here in mogadore is shot, all 3 of us neighbors who switched from Dish to get the HDDVR, marched right back to sat because of resets, reboots, and no service, it was good for two weeks, then took a turn for the worst!


----------



## jtscherne

FYI, Since Tuesday's noon game isn't on STO, it looks like ESPNHD will not be blacked out here.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah I saw I spoke too soon on that one, but still, I would be pitching a fit, Fox and CBS are some of the most watched Hd in my house. I dont think this will happen but sundays should be good if Youngstown has different football games on ( I dont think they do) but, anyways thanks for correcting me, and sorry I didnt edit that quick enough, I still feel bad though as like I said that is 80% of our viewage is both Fox and CBS. by the way hookbill how has your cable been? My time warner here in mogadore is shot, all 3 of us neighbors who switched from Dish to get the HDDVR, marched right back to sat because of resets, reboots, and no service, it was good for two weeks, then took a turn for the worst!



If you want to know when Youngstown is gong to show a different NFL game check out this site: http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html 


This site is maintained by JPKirby who is a regular posted over at the DBS boards.

Usually the CBS games match WOIO, you will always get the Browns first, the Steelers second. Sometimes when CBS has the doubleheader the FOX side may have a 1 PM game on WYFX and a 4 PM game on WJW. So getting WYFX (albeit in SD) will give us possibly one more OTA game than before.


Here is an example from last season where WYFX had a 1 PM game while WJW had to carry a 4 PM game:
http://www.gribblenation.net/persona...005wk3-fox.gif


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Anybody else notice improved reception on WKYC-DT last night? I haven't gotten anything from them in weeks until last night. I wonder if that has anything to do with the weather front that passed through yesterday?


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I was watching election results on WUAB-DT's "19 Action News at 10" (I know, I know...)







last night. Their election results graphic at the bottom of the screen was so absurdly small it was barely readable. I know I only have a 30-inch TV - I suppose that WUAB expects anybody watching their digital channel to have at least a 50-inch screen. Of course, they have enough room on the screen to run their usual logo and graphic (with reporters name, location, etc), which takes up about 1/4 of the screen!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody else notice improved reception on WKYC-DT last night? I haven't gotten anything from them in weeks until last night. I wonder if that has anything to do with the weather front that passed through yesterday?



What I've noticed about WKYC is that their Dolby 5.1 shows are not transmitting sound to the rear speakers. Nothing. Not even an echo.


This seemed to start last Sunday (I'm a week behind) so it will be interesting to see if they adjust.


----------



## brh-z2

Has anyone noticed the listing on Adelphia's HDBON channel listing the Walsh Jesuit/St Edwards basketball game. I think it was listed for Thursday 5/4. Is this STO or another network? Hope it's STO starting to expand their broadcast hours, but either way - very cool!


----------



## jtscherne

It's STO's first non-Indians broadcast. It has been mentioned in a couple of places, but I'm not sure if I've seen it here.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed the listing on Adelphia's HDBON channel listing the Walsh Jesuit/St Edwards basketball game. I think it was listed for Thursday 5/4. Is this STO or another network? Hope it's STO starting to expand their broadcast hours, but either way - very cool!



It's a baseball game at Jacob's Field. I hope it's in HD. I know they're going through the normal WKYC/STO connection to the stadium.


----------



## jtscherne

It is:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle


----------



## Michael P 2341

I heard this announced the other day on STO: STO will broadcast Len Barker's perfect game on May 15th which is the 25th anniversary of the event. In honor of the event, STO will run 24 hours of programming.


I could not find a press release for this I only heard it announced one time.


Be prepaired for "LDTV"







every time I saw the replay of the last out of this game the videotape was blurry.


----------



## geocab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I've noticed about WKYC is that their Dolby 5.1 shows are not transmitting sound to the rear speakers. Nothing. Not even an echo.
> 
> 
> This seemed to start last Sunday (I'm a week behind) so it will be interesting to see if they adjust.



Are they the only channel that broadcasts in 5.1? I watched "The Unit" for the first time yesterday and it didn't come up as 5.1.


----------



## jtscherne

Fox broadcasts in 5.1. Neither CBS or ABC in Cleveland does.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has added HGTV-HD on channel 216. Picture looks great, just like Discovery HD.


When I come home and my SA8000HD hasn't been turned off in the middle of the night I know the HD Santa Claus has delivered another channel. Or is that the HD stork?


----------



## paule123

Watching Tribe/Oakland game on STO (SD) only getting sound out of the left speaker. And the SD PQ is pretty bad at that. Reminds me of FSNOH SD PQ, maybe a little worse actually.


Watching on the WOW analog STO channel 72.


----------



## Inundated

Just tuned to the game via Adelphia digital 179 (SD)...don't notice anything untoward about either the PQ or the sound, at least down here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wide Open West has added HGTV-HD on channel 216. Picture looks great, just like Discovery HD.



I never look at HGTV so I could care less if Adelphia ever puts that one on. I never look at Discovery or PBS for that matter either.


Stations I really want in HD are CW (next year), FX, and TNT.


----------



## lefkas

Is it my imagination or are live HD OTA broadcasts (e.g., sports, FOX 8 News, American Idol) clearer and sharper in quality than standard videotaped programming (e.g., 24, House, Law and Order). Does anyone notice a difference in cable or satellite broaodcasts between live and taped HD programming ?


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it my imagination or are live HD OTA broadcasts (e.g., sports, FOX 8 News, American Idol) clearer and sharper in quality than standard videotaped programming (e.g., 24, House, Law and Order). Does anyone notice a difference in cable or satellite broaodcasts between live and taped HD programming ?




I don't know. CSI looks pretty darn good on server playback. I know they're all using some pretty high end playback machines, with lots of bandwidth and high Mbps rates. A lot of the shows you speak of originate on film too.


Also, with 24, I thought Fox was doing a lot of 480p for their network shows, yet Fox 8 News is delivered in native 720p.


Right now, a lot of the high end sports in HD (NASCAR, Sunday Night baseball and football, almost any golf event) employ some of the best color correction "video" people in the business to "paint" their cameras so picture quality is going to be amazing.


I think one thing that adds to your argument is that a lot of the live stuff, the lighting is just so much more harsh than the network programming. There's a mentality in news, sports and live events just to flood the lights so your picture looks brighter.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it my imagination or are live HD OTA broadcasts (e.g., sports, FOX 8 News, American Idol) clearer and sharper in quality than standard videotaped programming (e.g., 24, House, Law and Order). Does anyone notice a difference in cable or satellite broaodcasts between live and taped HD programming ?



You are correct and there is a reason. For those shows that are recorded using HD video cameras, filters are used to give the show more of a 'film' like look. When you watch a live broadcast such as sports, American Idol etc... they are not using those types of filters thus you get what we used to call the 'looking through a glass window' effect. It's intended to look at close to being there in person as possible because those types of presentations lend to that. Who wants their HD-Cavs game to have a 'film' like look to it or have certain views include a fuzzy grain to the picture. ha! Obviously we want the HD-Cavs games to look like we are sitting at the Q watching in person. For programs like 24, House, CSI etc..., looking like you are there in the studio is not what they want. With filters, they can get those HD recordings to still look wonderful in HD, but still create different moods, add grain to certain scenes, make other scenes lean towards a certain color, etc... For example, the newer Star Wars movies were all recorded on an HD-Camera (a Sony I believe), however, nobody would want a movie to look like a live sports presentation or Fox News, so many different filters were used to create different types of moods, clarity, color, and give a softer film like appearance. Were the movies still razer sharp, colorful, and gorgeous on the DLP theater screens? Heck yes! However, they didn't look like a live presentation, even though they could have without the filters and effects used on the camera.


There is a possibility that some of the shows are still actually filmed, then transferred to HD-Video. They used to do that, however I don't know for sure if that still goes on for most TV shows like ER, Law & Order, etc... If so, that is another reason for the shows to not look like live HD because film simply doesn't look like that. Making movies and TV dramas is an art form and we as viewers have been used to a certain look of film. So even though these shows are HD resolutions, the creators still want to maintain their artistic form.


The bottom line is, with HD, you can cater to the purpose of the content. For live presentations, the purpose is to as closely duplicate actually viewing the event live in person and with TV drama series that isn't what you want as we are used to it looking like a movie. I would hate for King Kong to have looked like Days of Our Lives.










This is basically what you are seeing.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know. CSI looks pretty darn good on server playback. I know they're all using some pretty high end playback machines, with lots of bandwidth and high Mbps rates. A lot of the shows you speak of originate on film too.
> 
> 
> Also, with 24, I thought Fox was doing a lot of 480p for their network shows, yet Fox 8 News is delivered in native 720p.
> 
> 
> Right now, a lot of the high end sports in HD (NASCAR, Sunday Night baseball and football, almost any golf event) employ some of the best color correction "video" people in the business to "paint" their cameras so picture quality is going to be amazing.
> 
> 
> I think one thing that adds to your argument is that a lot of the live stuff, the lighting is just so much more harsh than the network programming. There's a mentality in news, sports and live events just to flood the lights so your picture looks brighter.



24 is 720p now, not 480p. Fox used to do that 2 years ago but has since switched the majority of their shows to HD resolution.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are correct and there is a reason. For those shows that are recorded using HD video cameras, filters are used to give the show more of a 'film' like look. When you watch a live broadcast such as sports, American Idol etc... they are not using those types of filters thus you get what we used to call the 'looking through a glass window' effect. It's intended to look at close to being there in person as possible because those types of presentations lend to that. Who wants their HD-Cavs game to have a 'film' like look to it or have certain views include a fuzzy grain to the picture. ha! Obviously we want the HD-Cavs games to look like we are sitting at the Q watching in person. For programs like 24, House, CSI etc..., looking like you are there in the studio is not what they want. With filters, they can get those HD recordings to still look wonderful in HD, but still create different moods, add grain to certain scenes, make other scenes lean towards a certain color, etc... For example, the newer Star Wars movies were all recorded on an HD-Camera (a Sony I believe), however, nobody would want a movie to look like a live sports presentation or Fox News, so many different filters were used to create different types of moods, clarity, color, and give a softer film like appearance. Were the movies still razer sharp, colorful, and gorgeous on the DLP theater screens? Heck yes! However, they didn't look like a live presentation, even though they could have without the filters and effects used on the camera.
> 
> 
> There is a possibility that some of the shows are still actually filmed, then transferred to HD-Video. They used to do that, however I don't know for sure if that still goes on for most TV shows like ER, Law & Order, etc... If so, that is another reason for the shows to not look like live HD because film simply doesn't look like that. Making movies and TV dramas is an art form and we as viewers have been used to a certain look of film. So even though these shows are HD resolutions, the creators still want to maintain their artistic form.
> 
> 
> The bottom line is, with HD, you can cater to the purpose of the content. For live presentations, the purpose is to as closely duplicate actually viewing the event live in person and with TV drama series that isn't what you want as we are used to it looking like a movie. I would hate for King Kong to have looked like Days of Our Lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is basically what you are seeing.



You just described something I have been noticing for years, even via analog SD.


Back in the early 90's there was an episode of the series on ABC "Life Goes On" where both video techniques were employed for an effect. In the episode there were videotaped interviewes of married couples who were mentally challenged. Those video clips had that "'looking through a glass window' effect" that you described. The rest of the program was in grainy film. The same effect is used on some commercials (it's rare, though. most commercials employ the "film" look).


----------



## alfbinet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are correct and there is a reason. For those shows that are recorded using HD video cameras, filters are used to give the show more of a 'film' like look. When you watch a live broadcast such as sports, American Idol etc... they are not using those types of filters thus you get what we used to call the 'looking through a glass window' effect. It's intended to look at close to being there in person as possible because those types of presentations lend to that. Who wants their HD-Cavs game to have a 'film' like look to it or have certain views include a fuzzy grain to the picture. ha! Obviously we want the HD-Cavs games to look like we are sitting at the Q watching in person. For programs like 24, House, CSI etc..., looking like you are there in the studio is not what they want. With filters, they can get those HD recordings to still look wonderful in HD, but still create different moods, add grain to certain scenes, make other scenes lean towards a certain color, etc... For example, the newer Star Wars movies were all recorded on an HD-Camera (a Sony I believe), however, nobody would want a movie to look like a live sports presentation or Fox News, so many different filters were used to create different types of moods, clarity, color, and give a softer film like appearance. Were the movies still razer sharp, colorful, and gorgeous on the DLP theater screens? Heck yes! However, they didn't look like a live presentation, even though they could have without the filters and effects used on the camera.
> 
> 
> There is a possibility that some of the shows are still actually filmed, then transferred to HD-Video. They used to do that, however I don't know for sure if that still goes on for most TV shows like ER, Law & Order, etc... If so, that is another reason for the shows to not look like live HD because film simply doesn't look like that. Making movies and TV dramas is an art form and we as viewers have been used to a certain look of film. So even though these shows are HD resolutions, the creators still want to maintain their artistic form.
> 
> 
> The bottom line is, with HD, you can cater to the purpose of the content. For live presentations, the purpose is to as closely duplicate actually viewing the event live in person and with TV drama series that isn't what you want as we are used to it looking like a movie. I would hate for King Kong to have looked like Days of Our Lives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is basically what you are seeing.



What an excellent explanation.


----------



## HDTD

I watched a little of the STO Walsh/St. Ed's game. Thought it looked really good. I can't remember FSN doing any local games like that. I hope STO keeps it up. I'd really like to see if they do anything big come high school football time.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched a little of the STO Walsh/St. Ed's game. Thought it looked really good. I can't remember FSN doing any local games like that. I hope STO keeps it up. I'd really like to see if they do anything big come high school football time.



I watched a little of it, too.


As far as HS football games, I believe Jim Liberatore (STO chief) mentioned that might be on the agenda. I don't know if they'll do a "HS Game of the Week" (a la the series that now airs on 45/49), but it sounded like they'd be interested in big HS games. St. Eds/St. Ignatius, Massillon/McKinley, that sort of thing.


----------



## hookbill

How about some minor league baseball? The Captains would be nice in HD. Or maybe we can watch the Indians minor league team in Buffalo?


----------



## Rijax

I LOVE the minor league baseball idea. I'd enjoy seeing the Captains, and/or Aeros, and/ or Bisons. HS football would be good too.


----------



## Inundated

Mr. Liberatore didn't seem to think they'd run regular minor league baseball, in all the interviews I've seen. But if the Captains or Aeros or whatever is in a championship series, maybe he'll go for it.


----------



## jtscherne

How much trouble is it to move HD facilities to a minor league park? Are they even able to do it? The Captains will be hosting the all-star game this year...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How much trouble is it to move HD facilities to a minor league park? Are they even able to do it? The Captains will be hosting the all-star game this year...



That's the kind of event, assuming they have ANY interest in minor league ball, that they'd probably do.


But don't expect it in HD. They'd have to rent a truck and cameras. Remember, the HD out of Jacobs Field is "built in"...fixed cameras, and they're run into the WKYC HD control room via fiber optic cable.


They'd have to have a production truck and bring in HD cameras in Eastlake.


----------



## jtscherne

That was the original question though... Minor league baseball in HD, not just STO covering minor league.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That was the original question though... Minor league baseball in HD, not just STO covering minor league.



True, but I'd like to see the minor league baseball. The Red Sox show Pawtucket on NESN. I don't know if it's in HD or not.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That was the original question though... Minor league baseball in HD, not just STO covering minor league.



Chicken meet egg - STO would have to be interested in covering minor league ball in general, before they'd consider whether to go to the extra effort to cover it in HD... the effort I described above.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's the kind of event, assuming they have ANY interest in minor league ball, that they'd probably do.
> 
> 
> But don't expect it in HD. They'd have to rent a truck and cameras. Remember, the HD out of Jacobs Field is "built in"...fixed cameras, and they're run into the WKYC HD control room via fiber optic cable.
> 
> 
> They'd have to have a production truck and bring in HD cameras in Eastlake.



If they do show any interest in doing the minors it's probably going to be a bare bones show. Plus, you have to figure Eastlake and maybe Akron are close enough to get back to WKYC via microwave, just like a news live shot. So why spend any money on an HD satellite truck?


They'd probably have a better chance seeing if the minor league team could play the game at the Jake before doing an HD road show.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I LOVE the minor league baseball idea. I'd enjoy seeing the Captains, and/or Aeros, and/ or Bisons. HS football would be good too.




Around here I think HS Football would be a bigger audience draw on a regular basis than the minors. I'd love to see extensive HS coverage from STO. Now it's all over the dial. FSN never really had any, Adelphia has some. 45/49 in Akron has some but it looks atrocious. ONN used to have some decent coverage of playoffs and champs, but really went down the drain last year. The PQ was so awful and the production value looked as if they handed the show to high school students themselves to produce.


How great would an HD high school game of the week be!


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched a little of it, too.
> 
> 
> As far as HS football games, I believe Jim Liberatore (STO chief) mentioned that might be on the agenda. I don't know if they'll do a "HS Game of the Week" (a la the series that now airs on 45/49), but it sounded like they'd be interested in big HS games. St. Eds/St. Ignatius, Massillon/McKinley, that sort of thing.




That sounds smart of them just to follow the big teams, maybe see if that takes off then expand coverage maybe?


When I was growing up I used to love the old WVIZ game of the week. That used to be a really big thing when they'd come to cover your school.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How great would an HD high school game of the week be!



As a transported Los Angelino I can't tell you how NOT interested I am in watching a high school football game. When I first moved in this area (actually I was in Northern Kentucky) I couldn't believe the amount of attention that was paid to high school football. As far as I can remember there was very little coverage of anything high school in L.A.


But it's cool, I understand that's the way of life around here and it's a big deal to the people in this area.


I just don't understand why.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As a transported Los Angelino I can't tell you how NOT interested I am in watching a high school football game. When I first moved in this area (actually I was in Northern Kentucky) I couldn't believe the amount of attention that was paid to high school football. As far as I can remember there was very little coverage of anything high school in L.A.
> 
> 
> But it's cool, I understand that's the way of life around here and it's a big deal to the people in this area.
> 
> 
> I just don't understand why.



It's regional. Just like high school basketball being such a draw in Indiana. Personally, I'd rather see STO put on some nothing game (preferrably in HD) instead of 20 hours of "No Signal," or like FSN 8hrs of infomercials and some quasi-sports programs from a server in LA the rest of the day.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's regional. . Personally, I'd rather see STO put on some nothing game (preferrably in HD) instead of 20 hours of "No Signal," or like FSN 8hrs of infomercials and some quasi-sports programs from a server in LA the rest of the day.



I strongly agree. There's enough of those lame informercials around.


It just seems to me like such a good choice. H.S. foortball, and all the minor league baseball around. It would fill most of their emplty slots. It is STO - Sports Time Ohio - So concentrate what's local. Preferably in HD, of course but if not at least give us something else to look at.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As a transported Los Angelino I can't tell you how NOT interested I am in watching a high school football game. When I first moved in this area (actually I was in Northern Kentucky) I couldn't believe the amount of attention that was paid to high school football. As far as I can remember there was very little coverage of anything high school in L.A.
> 
> 
> But it's cool, I understand that's the way of life around here and it's a big deal to the people in this area.
> 
> 
> I just don't understand why.



If you think there is an emphasis on high school sports here, try watching the local news from a smaller market. Ever since WKBN fired up their digital signal I have been able to watch their news. They actually cover girls softball during the regular sports segmant of the news. And it's not just WKBN, I also get WFMJ analog and they too cover more high school sports (and also report on both Cleveland and Pittsburgh pro teams, YSU sports and the Scrappers). Here in Cleveland we get "American Idol" non-news.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you think there is an emphasis on high school sports here, try watching the local news from a smaller market. Ever since WKBN fired up their digital signal I have been able to watch their news. They actually cover girls softball during the regular sports segmant of the news. And it's not just WKBN, I also get WFMJ analog and they too cover more high school sports (and also report on both Cleveland and Pittsburgh pro teams, YSU sports and the Scrappers). Here in Cleveland we get "American Idol" non-news.



I've always thought with ESPN, ESPN News, FSN, etc...that national sports reports are everywhere. The local stations can differentiate themselves by doing just that--local sports reports. What good does it do WKBN to devote it's sportscast to the same satellite video that we've seen three times that day already on a national sports network.


----------



## pbarach

I just got a Toshiba 42HPX95 HDTV. Now that I've subscribed to Adelphia HDTV, I'm having trouble in getting the aspect ratios right on some of the HD channels (especially WKYC). My HD cable box is an SA8300HD. The cable box is connected to the TV via HDMI, the cable box is set to choose picture format via Auto DVI/HDMI, and the TV set has an "auto aspect ratio" feature that's turned on. The TV is a 720p display (resolution is 1024 x 768).


When WKYC-HD is broadcasting a non-HD program, I don't want to see it stretched out of proportion, but that's what I get. Shouldn't these settings give me a 4:3 window when what's being telecast on the HD channel is not widescreen material?


----------



## JJkizak

WKYC transmitts stretched SD when they are not broadcasting HD. The The reason is the engineer thinks it looks better and that's that. The answer to your question is also on the other "Cleveland" thread towards the end.


JJK


----------



## Inundated

Yep, the issue is not Adelphia, it's WKYC's stretch, which you would get even OTA.


To comfort you a bit...it used to be worse. WEWS and WOIO used to do the stretch, too! And WEWS' wasn't even a true 16x9 stretch, which caused even more grief.


----------



## pbarach

Thanks to the two previous replies for clarifying the source of the problem. Maybe I can get some eyeglasses that correct for the "stretch." What a grotesque look! I have been scratching my head for some time to understand why all of the stores are displaying "stretched" pictures on their 16:9 sets. Maybe they think that they have all of that screen area, so they have to fill it no matter how bad it looks. It's like buying a cake and having to eat the whole thing even after you're full!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been scratching my head for some time to understand why all of the stores are displaying "stretched" pictures on their 16:9 sets. Maybe they think that they have all of that screen area, so they have to fill it no matter how bad it looks.



Exactly. There are many viewers who would rather see the content stretched edge to edge than a pillarboxed SD picture. I agree that a stretched image makes NTSC video look worse.


What really weirds me out is the anamorphic stretch that many sets apply to an SD signal. It makes lateral movement look pretty strange, especially when there's a crawl running across the bottom of the screen.


----------



## hookbill

For Adelphia local stations just watch them on their digital channel (which is the regular channel if you have a digital box). Then you can control the stretch or watch it in standard format if you don't want to stretch. You'll enjoy the picture much better that way.


----------



## Dweezilz

I totally agree with that hook. The PQ is not all that much worse on the non-HD WKYC so if you don't want to deal with the stretch-o-vision, it's better to watch on channel 3. I've often thought that SD material on the HD-networks often has a much softer blurry look depending on what's on. I sometimes enjoyed the PQ on the non-HD's for SD Browns games as the HD-channel version looked too washed out and bland. News casts seemed to look much better on the HD channels so it really depends on the content. That'll hopefully change anyway when WKYC and WEWS go all HD on us.


----------



## JJkizak

Observation:

Watching OTA channel 25 analog Lawerance Welk (yuk) yesterday the color rendition and saturation was brilliant, reminding me of the old Technicolor 3-part process in the older musical movies. The focus was sharp as a razor. Consequently, watching the same program at the same time (2 TVS) on digital SD 49.2 the picture was out of focus, poor color saturation, poor color rendition and a slight tint to the red side. The out of focus is about like someone applying a .002 blur to the picture in a video editing system. The analog colors were absolutely staggering, deep blacks, brilliant orange, red, green, blue and fully saturated facial tones which reminded me of Kodak ectachrome prints. Like John Lennon says, "SD is dead".


JJK


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah, that is definitely the case in many situations as I've found with the Browns games & other SD programming on the HD digital channels. It's the upconversion process on material that doesn't have the line data to support the upconvert. Trying to squeeze water out of a rock & it just doesn't always work. However, just imagine once everything we watch is in HD. Good ole Lawerance would never look better than in 1080i or 720p! SCARY!! haha!


----------



## ZManCartFan

I just realized this morning that I'm getting KBN from Youngstown (both the CBS and Fox feeds) on Analog Channel 41 (Digital 27.1 and 27.2) with about 55% to 60% in southern Medina. This is with the antenna in the attick over my garage pointing toward the Parma farm! Not bad at all.


I hope it stays, because I've been unable to get rid of the signal-killing multipath that plagues Channel 19 for about 2 years now. Maybe now I'll have a viable CBS to watch!


Of course last time I got excited about a long-distance signal (Channel 21 from Youngstown) it turned out to be short-lived and most likely the result of a tropo skip or something.


I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Observation:
> 
> Watching OTA channel 25 analog Lawerance Welk (yuk) yesterday the color rendition and saturation was brilliant, reminding me of the old Technicolor 3-part process in the older musical movies. The focus was sharp as a razor. Consequently, watching the same program at the same time (2 TVS) on digital SD 49.2 the picture was out of focus, poor color saturation, poor color rendition and a slight tint to the red side. The out of focus is about like someone applying a .002 blur to the picture in a video editing system.



I don't know what kind of equipment WVIZ has analog vs. WEAO in SD digital, but I'm guessing that 49.2 is sent at a lower bit rate than a full SD digital signal, since they're pushing three other subchannels down the line. I could be wrong, though.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course last time I got excited about a long-distance signal (Channel 21 from Youngstown) it turned out to be short-lived and most likely the result of a tropo skip or something.
> 
> 
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed!



I'm getting WKBN-DT every night without any problem now, with my amplified indoor antenna about 20 miles east of you. It's harder to get during the day, for whatever reason, but a regular visitor at night.


WKBN-DT is somewhat more powerful than WFMJ-DT's STA, so you might have much better luck with it than you did with WFMJ. They'll be up to their own full power - still less than WKBN-DT, but about twice what they're putting out now - by July.


----------



## paule123

This is OT, but does anyone know a good company in the area (Mayfield Village) that does generator installations. Looking for approx 10KW natural gas powered, automatic transfer switch, and they would have to build a concrete pad for it behind our office as well.


Power went out here for a good hour tonight, then tripped off again an hour later. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come this summer!


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is OT, but does anyone know a good company in the area (Mayfield Village) that does generator installations. Looking for approx 10KW natural gas powered, automatic transfer switch, and they would have to build a concrete pad for it behind our office as well.
> 
> 
> Power went out here for a good hour tonight, then tripped off again an hour later. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come this summer!
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I just started using this gentlemen and I would highly recommend him. Williams Power Solutions, LLC. He's an authorized Guardian Power Generator installation and service person.


He won't be as cheap as what you can get from Home Depot but trust me when I tell you he will do the job with integrity and at a fair price. Mine was a Home Depot install and he fixed many of the things they did wrong at no additional charge and only charged a service call of !25.00. Everyone else wants 200.00 and that's just for changing the oil. He adjusted the valves, checked to make sure everything was working ok. Spent a good 3 hours here.


His name is Charley and he can be reached at 330.487.5164. He's a rare commonditiy today, a fair and honest business man.


----------



## JJkizak

I started picking up 67.1 yesterday. It's very weak but solid. I never watch it though. The signal strength looked like about 10% on a 100% scale accuracy unknown.


JJK


----------



## TLaz

Any updates on the WVIZ-DT tower issue? When will they be transmitting from their permanent antenna with full power?


WBNX-DT has been given a contruction permit by the FCC. Any news when they will be transmitting HDTV?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is OT, but does anyone know a good company in the area (Mayfield Village) that does generator installations. Looking for approx 10KW natural gas powered, automatic transfer switch, and they would have to build a concrete pad for it behind our office as well.
> 
> 
> Power went out here for a good hour tonight, then tripped off again an hour later. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come this summer!
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Here is the Generac/Guardian dealer locator page: http://www.generac.com/industrial/co...iceLocator.asp 

Just plug in your zip code to see all the authorized dealers in your area. Always good to get multiple quotes on a job like that.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I'm getting WKBN-DT every night without any problem now, with my amplified indoor antenna about 20 miles east of you. It's harder to get during the day, for whatever reason, but a regular visitor at night.



That's my story too here in SE Parma (about a mile south of the Ridgewood antenna farm) using a non-amplified indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).


I want to put up an outdoor antenna and aim it at Youngstown, the back side of that antenna would point roughly to the area between WJW and WEWS/WUAB so I might be able to kill 2 birds with one stone. I'd need a second UHF aimed at Akron, the back side would be looking at WBNX/WQHS. Then a 3rd VHF only antenna aimed at WKYC/WOIO and the proper couplers and I should be all set!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I started picking up 67.1 yesterday. It's very weak but solid. I never watch it though. The signal strength looked like about 10% on a 100% scale accuracy unknown.



I've gotten WOAC-DT with no problem for about two months now, if I'm aiming my indoor antenna at Brimfield. (For example, if I'm pointing at Youngstown to get WKBN-DT, I get WOAC-DT with no problem, and strong signal.)


I think they've been at 1000KW for a while now. Out of Twinsburg, I'd try aiming southeast towards roughly Kent...you may or may not be getting a good angle if your antenna is pointing at Parma. You should be more than close enough to get it.


----------



## Inundated

Haven't heard any updates on either the WBNX-DT CP or the WVIZ situation.


My guess - you'll see both up by July 1st, if not sooner.


----------



## Phoenix2088

WBNX should be ready for the CW launch in the fall.


All you OTA users should start scanning once a week or so once the summer rolls around. WVIZ and WBNX should start doing tests and may/or may not put something up, probably just a static color graph or something.


----------



## JJkizak

Inundated:

My antenna is fixed right now. Starfleet Command demands certain channels and if I put up a rotator, well-----. Maybe another antenna and rotator.


JJK


----------



## TheBlackKnight

The FCC released tentative channel designations for the 2nd round last week.


Good News: WKYC-DT has received an alternate designation which will allow them to move off of the "death valley" channel 2 frequency.










Bad News: Their alternate channel assignment is 17, which means they are stuck on channel 2 until WDLI, the Canton religious broadcaster, shuts down their analog stick, probably in Feb 2009.










The details are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...54#post7613854


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bad News: Their alternate channel assignment is 17, which means they are stuck on channel 2 until WDLI, the Canton religious broadcaster, shuts down their analog stick, probably in Feb 2009.



We talked about this a while back...their second request was 32, IIRC.


It doesn't do much to help anyone now, but after 2/2009, it's a moot point. WDLI will stay on DT 39. And WKYC would probably not move off of DT 2 until the analog shutdown date, anyway, so it doesn't make much difference.


----------



## JJkizak

The analog 17 used to come in pretty good until they went to digital then I could not pick up analog 17 anymore.

JJK


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bad News: Their alternate channel assignment is 17, which means they are stuck on channel 2 until WDLI, the Canton religious broadcaster, shuts down their analog stick, probably in Feb 2009.



Bad news? I don't have a problem with WKYC broadcasting over WDLI's signal... do you?










Besides, WKYC is to my north and WDLI is to my south, so it wouldn't pose a problem for _me_ if WKYC went to 17... so what's the problem?


----------



## HDTD

Way off topic:


Anyone know any trick of how to bookmark this site so that it automatically goes to the last thread?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Way off topic:
> 
> 
> Anyone know any trick of how to bookmark this site so that it automatically goes to the last thread?



here's what I use:


" http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017&goto=newpost "


Cut and paste what's inside the quote marks. I had to put the quotes because the forum shortened it as a normal url.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> here's what I use:
> 
> 
> " http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017&goto=newpost "
> 
> 
> Cut and paste what's inside the quote marks. I had to put the quotes because the forum shortened it as a normal url.




Thanks!!!


----------



## terryfoster

Another method would be to subscribe to the thread and bookmark the User Control Panel. This way you only need one bookmark for AVS and you will see when there are new postings.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another method would be to subscribe to the thread and bookmark the User Control Panel. This way you only need one bookmark for AVS and you will see when there are new postings.



Actually, the easiest way is to use the ...newpost link you get in the email when you're subscribed. That's where that link I posted came from originally.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody have any updates as to when D* will begin offering the locals in MPEG-4 HD? Last I heard the estimated time was May or June.


And, on a related topic, anybody have an estimate as to when the new MPEG-4 HD DVR will be available from D*?


Thanks.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, the easiest way is to use the ...newpost link you get in the email when you're subscribed. That's where that link I posted came from originally.



The problem is that I subscribe to too many threads/forums to use email notifications.


----------



## Michael P 2341

A few pages back, I posted the NFL coverage maps that JPKirby posts
http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html 


I took some time to find those instances last season where either WKBN or WYFX were carrying different games than WOIO or WJW. I came up with a total of 12 more games that would have been available OTA had WKBN-DT (with it's WYFX subchannel) been on the air.


The majority of the different games were the FOX games, however there were 4 instances of different games from CBS. There were 5 instances where FOX had a "singleheader" but if you combined the offereings on WJW and WYFX you would have ended up with a doubleheader for that week. There were 3 instances where the Cleveland affilliate had no game when the network was supposed to have a doubleheader (thanks to NFL OTA rules) where the Youngstown affilliate had both games. There was one week (week 11) where both networks had different and/or extra games (a total of 5 games available OTA with only one duplicate between the two markets).


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A few pages back, I posted the NFL coverage maps that JPKirby posts
> http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html
> 
> 
> I took some time to find those instances last season where either WKBN or WYFX were carrying different games than WOIO or WJW. I came up with a total of 12 more games that would have been available OTA had WKBN-DT (with it's WYFX subchannel) been on the air.
> 
> 
> The majority of the different games were the FOX games, however there were 4 instances of different games from CBS. There were 5 instances where FOX had a "singleheader" but if you combined the offereings on WJW and WYFX you would have ended up with a doubleheader for that week. There were 3 instances where the Cleveland affilliate had no game when the network was supposed to have a doubleheader (thanks to NFL OTA rules) where the Youngstown affilliate had both games. There was one week (week 11) where both networks had different and/or extra games (a total of 5 games available OTA with only one duplicate between the two markets).



really I dont need sunday ticket now, I wont be able to keep up with all the choices I will have if this is true for next year!


----------



## Michael P 2341

Keep in mind that not every week of the regular season will have extra games.


Here is a quick tally:

Week One: 1 extra FOX game where WJW could not show the early game of a double header.


Week Three: 1 extra FOX game where WYFX had the early game and WJW had the late game (CBS had the double header that week and both WOIO had WKBN had the same games).


Week Four: Different early games for FOX on WJW & WYFX


Week Seven: 1 extra CBS game where WOIO could not show the early game of a double header.


Week Nine: another FOX singleheader week with WYFX having an early game while WJW had the late game (same as week three).


Week Ten: Different early games for CBS WOIO and WKBN


Week Eleven: Different early games for CBS WOIO and WKBN, PLUS 1 extra FOX game on WYFX (early) when WJW had the late game. A total of 5 games that Sunday!


Week Thirteen: Different early games for CBS WOIO and WKBN


Week Fourteen: another FOX singleheader week with WYFX having an early game while WJW had the late game (NFC fans you must be salavating by now







)


Week Sixteen: another FOX singleheader week with WYFX having an early game while WJW had the late game (easy now)


Week Seventeen: One last extra FOX game when the NFL rules barred WJW from the last FOX doubleheader of the season.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> really I dont need sunday ticket now, I wont be able to keep up with all the choices I will have if this is true for next year!



As long as CBS and FOX carry the bulk of the NFL regular season these extra game situations should continue. WKBN-DT is the best thing to happen to the OTA scene in NE Ohio / NW PA.


Thanks to JP Kirby for keeping last season's maps on line. He usually put the following Sunday's map out "usually Wednesday night or Thursday afternoon for that weekend's games. Updates and corrections on Friday if needed."


Youngstown is an overlapping market with the Browns and Steelers, with an emphasis on the Browns (i.e. if both teams are playing at the same time on the same network you usually get the Browns on a Yongstown station). I did catch one exception in week eleven when Miami was at Cleveland on WOIO while Pittsburgh was at Baltimore on WKBN. I don't know why that happened, but because it did there were the most games offered in the combined markets that Sunday.


If ever a Browns home game gets blacked out locally unfortunately Youngstown would also be blacked out. Fortunately that situation has not happened since the end of the Art Modell era in Cleveland, buit if it did you would need either Toledo or Erie, a much harder catch for most Clevelanders.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did catch one exception in week eleven when Miami was at Cleveland on WOIO while Pittsburgh was at Baltimore on WKBN. I don't know why that happened, but because it did there were the most games offered in the combined markets that Sunday.



I think that WKBN usually carries the Browns over the Steelers, but I think they may carry the Steelers depending on the importance of each game.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bad news? I don't have a problem with WKYC broadcasting over WDLI's signal... do you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, WKYC is to my north and WDLI is to my south, so it wouldn't pose a problem for _me_ if WKYC went to 17... so what's the problem?



The bad news is that it won't happen until 2009.


Although, I wonder if WDLI would take a bribe - err - donation in exchange for abandoning channel 17 early?


I'll kick in the first $20. Anybody else in?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The bad news is that it won't happen until 2009.
> 
> 
> Although, I wonder if WDLI would take a bribe - err - donation in exchange for abandoning channel 17 early?
> 
> 
> I'll kick in the first $20. Anybody else in?



If I didn't get WKYC-DT on cable, I might.










It's not out of the question - stations have abandoned analog early - but I don't think TBN has ever taken that bait. The only one I can remember off the top of my head was a secondary PBS affiliate in Northern California.


----------



## hookbill

There was a guy checking underground cables outside my house from Adelphia today. I asked him if he had any updates on the switch to Time Warner. He said July 31 is the date.


This is strictly hearsay, I have no documented proof. But it fits in with what I've read recently.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There was a guy checking underground cables outside my house from Adelphia today. I asked him if he had any updates on the switch to Time Warner. He said July 31 is the date.
> 
> 
> This is strictly hearsay, I have no documented proof. But it fits in with what I've read recently.



That is the date Adelphia says is a "must" date for them, financially. The deal still has to go through FCC approval, and approval by the bankruptcy court.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that not every week of the regular season will have extra games.



The biggest problem is CBS will yet again screw us AFC fans in the 2006-2007 season with only 3 HD games per Sunday. Watching SD football is so damn painful, especially knowing all the NFC fans are getting every game in HD on Fox. Aaaargh.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I didn't get WKYC-DT on cable, I might.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not out of the question - stations have abandoned analog early - but I don't think TBN has ever taken that bait. The only one I can remember off the top of my head was a secondary PBS affiliate in Northern California.



Channel 17 is TBN?! Ah heck... let's just get $1000 together, put the money all in $1 bills. Then we can make trails at the 17 Station of the $1 bill leading to closets. This way they'll all get trapped in closets and we can turn off the transmitter. If anything, I'd say we were doing a public service.


While I can somehow get WKYC over the air (with an indoor antenna), the problem is that trying to get WKYC and WOIO which are at the opposite far ends of the VHF scale, it makes reception very tricky, especially during bad weather, atleast for me. If WKYC was on 17, reception of all the channels over the air would be much easier... in theory. I get all the channels, this would just make it easier.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The biggest problem is CBS will yet again screw us AFC fans in the 2006-2007 season with only 3 HD games per Sunday. Watching SD football is so damn painful, especially knowing all the NFC fans are getting every game in HD on Fox. Aaaargh.



By now there's no reason the NFL is not 100% HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By now there's no reason the NFL is not 100% HD.



I could have sworn I read in this thread somewhere that CBS was going to televise more games in HD this year. It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By now there's no reason the NFL is not 100% HD.



I take that back, there is reason....CBS is not set to handle any more than three paths back in NY. Fox built their LA center for 8 feeds of HD network integration.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I take that back, there is reason....CBS is not set to handle any more than three paths back in NY. Fox built their LA center for 8 feeds of HD network integration.



Correctomundo. From what I've read elsewhere on AVS (going back a couple months ago), CBS was not going to do anything to improve the situation for the upcoming season. IIRC, the NFL is requiring all football to be HD in 2009, so the networks will have no choice at that point.


Ahhh, here's the thread with info from Ken H:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=nfl+hdtv+2007 


(scroll down to post #7 from Ken H)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Correctomundo. From what I've read elsewhere on AVS (going back a couple months ago), CBS was not going to do anything to improve the situation for the upcoming season. IIRC, the NFL is requiring all football to be HD in 2009, so the networks will have no choice at that point.




Well, that bites. 2009 is like a lifetime away.


I'll be so old by that time that I might not be allowed to have a beer while a watch the game.


----------



## Inundated

There had been rumors around here that CBS would be in HD for all of its NFL games this coming season, but it's not to be. They'll slowly "ramp up" a game or two a year until 2009.


And yes, TBN does actually own WDLI/17. It's one of their first O&O stations. Their DT 39 stick is actually in Summit County, just north of Rolling Acres Mall not far from WEAO/WEAO-DT, WVPX and WONE-FM, in the closest thing we have to an antenna farm down here in Akron. (WOAC-DT is over in Brimfield, across from WNIR-FM.)


And oddly enough, TBN just built a sparkling new building at their transmitter site, along Rt. 261 just off the Wooster Ave./Vernon Odom Blvd.-Romig Rd. intersection.


----------



## stuart628

not to be mean, but you guys talk like no one watches TBN, I enjoy the JCTV channel as it gives me a chance to listen to my fav. christian artists! yes I would love to get WKYC in a better channel to make it easier to watch (I would also love for woio to go full power to to help me recieve them!).


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Channel 17 is TBN?! Ah heck... let's just get $1000 together, put the money all in $1 bills. Then we can make trails at the 17 Station of the $1 bill leading to closets. This way they'll all get trapped in closets and we can turn off the transmitter. If anything, I'd say we were doing a public service.



I'm willing to try anything!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While I can somehow get WKYC over the air (with an indoor antenna), the problem is that trying to get WKYC and WOIO which are at the opposite far ends of the VHF scale, it makes reception very tricky, especially during bad weather, atleast for me. If WKYC was on 17, reception of all the channels over the air would be much easier... in theory. I get all the channels, this would just make it easier.



So I can count you in for $20 to the "WDLI Analog Retirement Fund"?


----------



## HDTD

A little off topic, but make sure you Adelphia subscribers review your bills.


I was hit for two months of a "modem lease" at $6/month, for something that billing described as a "human error," and credited me for.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A little off topic, but make sure you Adelphia subscribers review your bills.
> 
> 
> I was hit for two months of a "modem lease" at $6/month, for something that billing described as a "human error," and credited me for.



They called the other day to make sure I was aware of the 4.95 charge upcoming for the DVR. It's no longer free. Thanks for the heads up on the modem charge I'll have my wife double check our bill.


----------



## terryfoster

Modems are free from TWC, so I wouldn't expect a fee for those of you switching from Adelphia to TWC, but as hookbill said, DVRs aren't free.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Modems are free from TWC, so I wouldn't expect a fee for those of you switching from Adelphia to TWC, but as hookbill said, DVRs aren't free.



Adelphia has always charged its internet customers extra for a cable modem (although you can buy your own).


----------



## HDTD

I found a video link on WKYC's website explaining the STO/WKYC HD hook-up with Jacob's Field. It's over a month old, but still kinda cool. Basically a self promotion of how great HD can be









http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=21750&bw=


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I found a video link on WKYC's website explaining the STO/WKYC HD hook-up with Jacob's Field. It's over a month old, but still kinda cool. Basically a self promotion of how great HD can be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=21750&bw=



Excellent link, HDTD. I found it not long after it was put up...I think they did the piece for the WKYC Indians opener, and I saw it on TV.


You'd probably know this, but...is the WKYC-based STO/Indians control room the only "off-stadium" main control room in MLB, or in any major league sports? I don't recall reading of this happening anywhere else...


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excellent link, HDTD. I found it not long after it was put up...I think they did the piece for the WKYC Indians opener, and I saw it on TV.
> 
> 
> You'd probably know this, but...is the WKYC-based STO/Indians control room the only "off-stadium" main control room in MLB, or in any major league sports? I don't recall reading of this happening anywhere else...




As far as pro's go, the only other folks to attempt this in HD (others have tried years ago in SD and failed) is Philadelphia. Comcast Philly has a control room at their arena and the new ballpark is connected also via fiber optic. The distance is about a half mile to a mile away.


More stadiums venus are being wired with fiber. But that's usually from the camera position, down to where the trucks park.


Inundated-I apologize, I thought someone may have posted it before, and if I was doubling up on the link (I'm too lazy to search).


----------



## silverballmania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last time I looked, it is.
> 
> 
> Adelphia's online lineup shows 798/HDBON is "Broadcast HD", so it's not encrypted and it isn't in the HD Plus tier:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Discovery HD (776) is listed the same way, and is "in the clear" via QAM.
> 
> 
> Here's what I'm getting in the clear:
> 
> 
> * All local HD broadcast stations (WKYC, WEWS, WOIO, WJW, WVIZ)
> 
> * All local SD digital simulcasts of said stations (all of the above plus WUAB)
> 
> * 776/Discovery HD
> 
> * 798/HDBON
> 
> * 181/OHIO (WVIZ's "Ohio Channel" SD subchannel)
> 
> * 183/WTHR+ (WKYC's Weather Plus, also SD)
> 
> 
> I think LOGO is in there as well (SD) as well as 300/BARK - no, not a dog channel, but the "BARKER" preview channel for PPV.
> 
> 
> Each time Adelphia adds one of those SD digital channels, it has the proper cable box channel and name in the PSIP info.
> 
> 
> I would assume BARK is there because it's just an in-house advertising channel, but I don't know why LOGO is on the list and other digital cable non-"plus" stations aren't.



Just getting in on this conversation now. I have Adelphia i nthe Cleveland suburbs, but subscribe to just basic cable - not digital. Are these stations being sent through on the basic cable too, or just the digital? I do have a QAM enabled HDTV, but haven't yet tried to hook it up and scan for these.


----------



## pbarach

I wrote the Channel 3's engineering staff to point out (as others have) that it's very annoying to watch 4:3 material on their HDTV channel that has been stretched by WKYC to fill a 16:9 image. I received a response from Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Operations WKYC-TV, who wrote:


> The reason we stretch

> 4x3 content when it is upconverted to 1080i, is to address the

> concerns of viewers that don't want to see black bars on the sides of

> their 16x9 display. It is also worth noting that some of the NBC HDTV

> shows are provided to us in letterbox format for analog transmission,

> and we get complaints about that problem as well. Obviously these

> policies are not liked by all of our viewers, but this is a

> case where we can't please everyone.


I responded that none of the other local channels did this with upconverted analog material on their HD channels, which meant that the viewer with a 16:9 set had the option on all the other channels to stretch the image, but that WKYC was taking away that choice. Rex responded concerning the HD-stretching issue: "We are reconsidering this policy, and I expect it to change in the near future. "


Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his). This forum's software won't let me post email addresses yet, so go to the WKYC website and click on the "Contact WKYC" link at the bottom of the page, then click on the "questions about our shows" and express your opinion!


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I noticed that PBS 45&49 has reconfigured their digital transmission. They have dropped the "Information & Education" subchannel (which was 45-4 and 49-4) and moved the Ohio Channel to 45-3 and 49-3. They are only doing three subchannels now. They have also updated their website to reflect the new configuration, leading me to believe that the change is permanent (or at least not short-term).


I think there also used to be mention on the website that the PBS HD channel was on from 6 PM to midnight on 45-1 and 49-1 (which has not been the case for quite awhile). They no longer mention this on the website. I hope they have not given up on HD at PBS 45&49.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as pro's go, the only other folks to attempt this in HD (others have tried years ago in SD and failed) is Philadelphia. Comcast Philly has a control room at their arena and the new ballpark is connected also via fiber optic. The distance is about a half mile to a mile away.



But this situation would presumably be even more unique, with the control room for the game at WKYC itself. It's still fascinating to me, and though there has been a glitch or two, it's mostly gone smoothly.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated-I apologize, I thought someone may have posted it before, and if I was doubling up on the link (I'm too lazy to search).



Oh, no problem, I can't even remember if I ended up posting it here! I know I saw it during the Indians opening day pregame on TV.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just getting in on this conversation now. I have Adelphia i nthe Cleveland suburbs, but subscribe to just basic cable - not digital. Are these stations being sent through on the basic cable too, or just the digital? I do have a QAM enabled HDTV, but haven't yet tried to hook it up and scan for these.



Yes, the "open" QAM channels are not at all tied to Adelphia's digital cable. I get them down here on my computer with the Fusion USB HDTV box connected to a standard cable.


You should have no problem picking them up on your QAM-enabled set. You won't get, for example, stuff that REQUIRES the box (ESPNHD, HDNet, etc.), but you will get what I listed above.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his).



I've written to all the stations about this issue, including WEWS when they were doing that horrid 14:9 pseudo-stretch. I know the Ohio Media Watch blog has touched on this as well.


BTW, sometime not too long from now, WKYC's local newscasts will be in HD...so you'll see less of the stretch anyway. An article quoted here said it could have happened as early as April, but I think they're waiting till the HD Indians/STO stuff is more routine before doing it.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But this situation would presumably be even more unique, with the control room for the game at WKYC itself. It's still fascinating to me, and though there has been a glitch or two, it's mostly gone smoothly.



I am completely amazed at the whole network, and the rare technical flaws they've had. They not only outfitted Jacob's Field with fiber, but spec'd out an entire HD control room and built it from the ground up...then had the electric co tear up E9th St and install fiber, and to do all that by opening day (in less than four months) is amazing. (Do I hear technical acheivement Emmy?) From what I've seen very little of the technical errors have been related directly to how quickly they built the studio. It's just unbelievable, and for them to pull it off in Cleveland is amazing. This is something you'd expect out of NYC or Philly.


For a television production *truck* to be built in that time frame is amazing. And we're talking expando 53' trailers where companies build maybe a dozen a year, and are constantly updating and tweaking designs, that takes almost six months on average. Cheaper HD trucks have been rolled out in 90 days, but they've needed some fixes after that.


To me, if this thing is successful in Cleveland, a kind of mid-market as far as pro sports TV cities go you'll begin to see a trend with sports teams, wiring stadiums and starting their own networks.


I've always thought as technology caught up, that you may have stadiums that are wired like this, and all the control rooms are done just like WKYC. Where you'll only travel announcers. All of the production crew could be in one place, and they just connect to whatever particular stadium your home team is visiting.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his). This forum's software won't let me post email addresses yet, so go to the WKYC website and click on the "Contact WKYC" link at the bottom of the page, then click on the "questions about our shows" and express your opinion!



Would writing the station's General Manager help?


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that PBS 45&49 has reconfigured their digital transmission. They have dropped the "Information & Education" subchannel (which was 45-4 and 49-4) and moved the Ohio Channel to 45-3 and 49-3. They are only doing three subchannels now. They have also updated their website to reflect the new configuration, leading me to believe that the change is permanent (or at least not short-term).
> 
> 
> I think there also used to be mention on the website that the PBS HD channel was on from 6 PM to midnight on 45-1 and 49-1 (which has not been the case for quite awhile). They no longer mention this on the website. I hope they have not given up on HD at PBS 45&49.



I hope they haven't given up either! I loved their HD shows, and I'm someone that NEVER watched PBS before, even when I worked at a station in school. I really wish they took into consideration that there are a big chunk of HD viewers that watch programs they normally would not watch just because they're in HD.


I would have never watched a program about lava on Discovery Channel prior to HD. Forget Dale Chihuly's glass blowing on PBS if that were SD.


We really need 45/49 to do us a true public service and provide their PBS network programs in full HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To me, if this thing is successful in Cleveland, a kind of mid-market as far as pro sports TV cities go you'll begin to see a trend with sports teams, wiring stadiums and starting their own networks.



The biggest way STO avoided a pitfall here is hooking up with an existing broadcaster, WKYC, and an existing modern broadcast facility, the "Digital Broadcast Center" at 13th and Lakeside.


That reduced a lot of what they had to do. They basically had to install the HD cameras at Jacobs Field and the fiber optic link back to WKYC, and then outfit the HD control room there. I'm not sure, but I believe that control room may have already either been in place, or just needed some retrofitting for STO's purposes...mostly, I assume, making it HD ready.


Since WKYC needs it anyway for its 20 games, and can use it as a backup during STO's off hours, it was a no brainer. (Of course, at some point in the next year or so, STO will go 24 hours, but I don't know if it'll be out of that room or elsewhere.)


----------



## silverballmania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, the "open" QAM channels are not at all tied to Adelphia's digital cable. I get them down here on my computer with the Fusion USB HDTV box connected to a standard cable.
> 
> 
> You should have no problem picking them up on your QAM-enabled set. You won't get, for example, stuff that REQUIRES the box (ESPNHD, HDNet, etc.), but you will get what I listed above.



Thanks - I gave it a try and picked up the SD channels only. The HD channels were very pixelated. I was told a couple years back that the wiring in my house is horrendous (too many splitters and an amplifier). I think the bad reception has to do with that. I'm probably due for a complete re-wire of my house if I want this to work right! Thanks for your help!


----------



## stuart628

did anyone have a problem with woio last night? I had a complete 0 for signal (every other channel was at normal readings) not a biggie since i Have youngstown cbs, just wondering if any of you saw anything, thanks!


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We really need 45/49 to do us a true public service and provide their PBS network programs in full HD.



As the title above indicates, we, too, believe in HD. I also believe in being honest. Our first generation digital encoding equipment is showing its age. The unit has limitations and those, combined with our incompatible automation system interface, limit what the station can deliver. That's why the Information & Education Channel (CPB/Annenberg) has temporarily be discontinued. That is also why, after 6 months of effort, we are TEMPORARILY de-listing our HD service. That is also why we've made considerable changes to our 2am-5 am primary channel service.

We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. We are now spending considerable time reviewing replacement mux and encoding equipment. But we are *not* abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.

When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.


Don Freeman

Director of Programming and Operations


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But we are *not* abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
> 
> When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Director of Programming and Operations




Hi Don,

I'm pleased to hear about your interest in HD and appreciate the update. Many of us will be watching.


thx,

Tom


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The biggest way STO avoided a pitfall here is hooking up with an existing broadcaster, WKYC, and an existing modern broadcast facility, the "Digital Broadcast Center" at 13th and Lakeside.
> 
> 
> That reduced a lot of what they had to do. They basically had to install the HD cameras at Jacobs Field and the fiber optic link back to WKYC, and then outfit the HD control room there. I'm not sure, but I believe that control room may have already either been in place, or just needed some retrofitting for STO's purposes...mostly, I assume, making it HD ready.
> 
> 
> Since WKYC needs it anyway for its 20 games, and can use it as a backup during STO's off hours, it was a no brainer. (Of course, at some point in the next year or so, STO will go 24 hours, but I don't know if it'll be out of that room or elsewhere.)



The biggest success for STO being a team owned network was going in with Time Warner from the get-go. Having them at the beginning helps tremendously. That's where Victory Network in Minneapolis failed for the Twins. They were on two cable systems with less than 40,000 homes. Try selling that to advertisers. The Yankees YES Network and Sports NY the new Mets network had some struggle with cable systems at first, but they're big enough franchises to garner demand by subscribers to the cable systems.


WKYC certainly helped though, with the station engineering, sales and production staff plus a shell for a new control room. WKYC planned for a second control room, and second studio when they built the new facility. They had the conduit ready for all the wiring necessary. Who knows if they ever planned on having a second and third network outside of WKYC, but of any station or cable network in town, they were set to pull it off successfully.


They still had to completey outfit the facility with HD equipment. But their shell for a control room took away any big delays for construction. They had tremendous amounts of wiring of new equipment. So it wasn't completely ready to move in, but it certainly helped.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. Don Freeman
> 
> Director of Programming and Operations



People in New Orleans are expecting some federal funds too. I wouldn't hold your breath with the current management.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Anybody else notice the weather alert and it's affect on the HD picture during the game?


Basically the picture whent from true HD to stretch-o-vision to show the weather alert crawl and radar PIP image. During that time the scoreboard size enlarged.


Otherwise it went very smooth. I did not hear the usual audio glitch (and time warp) that I hear on other stations when the switch is made from HD to SD (or visa-varsa). I can't speak for DD5.1 audio, only the standard stereo analog output from my 921.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody else notice the weather alert and it's affect on the HD picture during the game?
> 
> 
> Basically the picture whent from true HD to stretch-o-vision to show the weather alert crawl and radar PIP image. During that time the scoreboard size enlarged.
> 
> 
> Otherwise it went very smooth. I did not hear the usual audio glitch (and time warp) that I hear on other stations when the switch is made from HD to SD (or visa-varsa). I can't speak for DD5.1 audio, only the standard stereo analog output from my 921.



Yes I saw it. As far as the audio goes, I've had to "help" it a bit so it comes out the rear speakers. I have a setting I can put my stereo on that will enhance even 5.1.


As far as the weather things goes, very annoying but it happens on other stations too only they don't do the stretch o vision, they just go to standard format.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The biggest success for STO being a team owned network was going in with Time Warner from the get-go. Having them at the beginning helps tremendously. That's where Victory Network in Minneapolis failed for the Twins. They were on two cable systems with less than 40,000 homes. Try selling that to advertisers.



Oh, definitely, that's a key piece of the puzzle - distribution. Even if they signed up no other cable system but Time Warner, it would have given them 90 percent of the local cable homes - with Adelphia/Comcast coming into the fold this summer. They still needed the other pieces, and the satellite services, but they'd never have been behind the same 8 ball Victory Sports was behind in Minnesota.


----------



## stuart628

okay two questions


#1 is woio out for everyone? I am getting a 0 signal still


#2 if their are any engineers for stations that check in, or if any of you contact them on a regular basis.....Is Dish network in contact with the engineers about broadcasting cleveland locals, it is my understanding that they have to talk to the engineers first, kinda gives me a timeline of when cleveland HDlocals will be put up in the sat...thanks guys! and [email protected]


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> #2 if their are any engineers for stations that check in, or if any of you contact them on a regular basis.....Is Dish network in contact with the engineers about broadcasting cleveland locals, it is my understanding that they have to talk to the engineers first, kinda gives me a timeline of when cleveland HDlocals will be put up in the sat...thanks guys! and [email protected]



From what I've been reading in the other local DBS threads, Dish Network is picking up local HD/DT channels over air, and is not receiving a fiber optic feed for them. As such, the engineering folks aren't involved...only the management to clear the station being carried.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From what I've been reading in the other local DBS threads, Dish Network is picking up local HD/DT channels over air, and is not receiving a fiber optic feed for them. As such, the engineering folks aren't involved...only the management to clear the station being carried.



I thought I read somewhere that they had to let the engineer know, oh well I will wait paitently! thanks inundated.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought I read somewhere that they had to let the engineer know, oh well I will wait paitently! thanks inundated.



I THINK DirecTV may be getting the fiber optic feeds for some of their HD LIL markets, but I have been reading in the Sacramento thread - in messages from KOVR "CBS 13" engineer Bob Hess - that Dish Network will just get them via OTA reception. No need to notify the engineer, as the signal's out there for anyone to pick up and the engineer doesn't need to do anything.


Bob explains it in this message on the Sacramento OTA thread.


I believe Adelphia/Cleveland gets all of its local HD stations via OTA pickup. In fact, I seem to remember that they even pick up puny-power WVIZ/25 (DT 26) via OTA out of their downtown Cleveland facility...with much better antennas and equipment than we have, of course.


----------



## rluyster

News article of local interest....concerns local "Shop At Home" channel....


Scripps shuts Shop At Home after failed sale

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...C6%7D&keyword= 


Also see article on this site:

http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, definitely, that's a key piece of the puzzle - distribution. Even if they signed up no other cable system but Time Warner, it would have given them 90 percent of the local cable homes - with Adelphia/Comcast coming into the fold this summer. They still needed the other pieces, and the satellite services, but they'd never have been behind the same 8 ball Victory Sports was behind in Minnesota.



It's funny after you asked about other cities doing a similar fiber link with a station, I heard serious talk about FSN Pittsburgh following STO's lead by wiring PNC Park and HD fibering their signal back to FSN Pittsburgh's Allegheny Center studios. Bypassing a truck, and building an HD control room.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As the title above indicates, we, too, believe in HD. I also believe in being honest. Our first generation digital encoding equipment is showing its age. The unit has limitations and those, combined with our incompatible automation system interface, limit what the station can deliver. That's why the Information & Education Channel (CPB/Annenberg) has temporarily be discontinued. That is also why, after 6 months of effort, we are TEMPORARILY de-listing our HD service. That is also why we've made considerable changes to our 2am-5 am primary channel service.
> 
> We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. We are now spending considerable time reviewing replacement mux and encoding equipment. But we are *not* abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
> 
> When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Director of Programming and Operations



Thanks for the reply Don. Sounds typical of PBS equipment woes. Buy it just to do the job at first, and end up paying more in the end to fix it. Doesn't matter what the equipment is, it's PBS' buying "strategery," for everything. WVIZ is going through the same disaster.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> News article of local interest....concerns local "Shop At Home" channel....
> 
> 
> Scripps shuts Shop At Home after failed sale
> 
> http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...C6%7D&keyword=
> 
> 
> Also see article on this site:
> 
> http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/



It would be nice to see the WIVM (52) folks pick up this channel. A return to the old days of WOAC - low budget, local programming with plenty of high school football and basketball. Is Scott Davis still around? Proably won't happen, though.


Maybe the CAT folks (low power 29/35) would pick it up - although I can't imagine Kaiser Bill springing for a full power TV station. The WOAC transmitter is located right next to the Kaiser's broadcast "empire", though. And it would put OSU Buckeye basketball back on a full power affiliate in this market.


Honestly, I don't know who would be interested and have the wherewithall to buy this station. I'm just glad to be getting rid of the shopping channel. What a waste of spectrum! I think I'd rather watch a test pattern.


----------



## gzath

Speaking of PBS and WVIZ ... any news on the progress of their new antenna? Or is it also in governmental grant hell?


----------



## hookbill

I just took a look at Saturday at Zap2it.com to see what we were going to get on FOX this weekend. We're getting Cubs vs Sox. They did not have the HD flag with the listing.


I thought this was the year FOX was going to give us MLB game of the week in HD. And if they arn't, why not?


----------



## paule123

Bad news, hook. See the post in this thread from Ken H. confirming a no go on the HD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7676043 


No HD for the Fox MLB regular season games. I guess they figure the audience isn't there to make it worth the trouble.


P.S. I wonder if the people in Chicago get downgraded to SD for that Fox game, since Comcast Sports Net and WGN Chicago do all their home games in HD.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bad news, hook. See the post in this thread from Ken H. confirming a no go on the HD:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7676043
> 
> 
> No HD for the Fox MLB regular season games. I guess they figure the audience isn't there to make it worth the trouble.
> 
> 
> P.S. I wonder if the people in Chicago get downgraded to SD for that Fox game, since Comcast Sports Net and WGN Chicago do all their home games in HD.




You know last year they were passing off SD 16x9 to the HD world, and SD had the horrible 4:3 center cut, making the picture even worse at home.


Now they did have some true HD games, but I know of a game in Cleveland last year that they did try passing it off as HD, even though it came out of a non-HD native truck.


What stinks about Chicago is they're using a truck that's already HD, like everyone on here tends to agree, why not just spend the money for transmission and do it in HD!


----------



## Pucky

I work in the industry and saw this interesting article in Broadcasting and Cable recommending that Time Warner walk away from the Adelphia aquisition. Wonder if the management at TW is considering that?


I hope the link works, if not, the website is broadcastingcable.com, and the column is titled "Hey, Time Warner: Walk Away from Adelphia" by John Higgins.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I work in the industry and saw this interesting article in Broadcasting and Cable recommending that Time Warner walk away from the Adelphia aquisition. Wonder if the management at TW is considering that?
> 
> 
> I hope the link works, if not, the website is broadcastingcable.com, and the column is titled "Hey, Time Warner: Walk Away from Adelphia" by John Higgins.



Well, really that's one persons well written opinion. And in fact he may be right.


I still think the deal will be done with by the deadline.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's funny after you asked about other cities doing a similar fiber link with a station, I heard serious talk about FSN Pittsburgh following STO's lead by wiring PNC Park and HD fibering their signal back to FSN Pittsburgh's Allegheny Center studios. Bypassing a truck, and building an HD control room.



And if I remember downtown Pittsburgh enough, that's really not a far fiber haul...just across one of the rivers and maybe two or three blocks. It may be closer than WKYC-to-Jacobs Field.


----------



## Inundated

If you're waiting for WBNX to go digital and HD in time for this fall's new CW Network lineup, after getting FCC approval for its digital construction permit a while back, don't hold your breath.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/cw-and-wbnx.html 



> Quote:
> An OMW tipster tells us the station is now telling viewers who ask about it that WBNX may not be able to put up the digital signal until "spring 2007". The station says it has to still design and build an antenna, for one.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're waiting for WBNX to go digital and HD in time for this fall's new CW Network lineup, after getting FCC approval for its digital construction permit a while back, don't hold your breath.
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/cw-and-wbnx.html



That's interesting (and very disappointing if true), because I saw a promo on WBNX less than a week ago that said they were "going digital" (no mention of HD) this summer. I suppose they could have meant a cable-only feed, although it didn't sound like that.


----------



## hookbill

Just took a look at the CW line up. What a bummer if it's not even delivered digitally, currently WBNX is just barely watchable on Adelphia.


Thursday will be the night for me for that network, but I see conflicts. CSI, Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural all at the same time.


Interesting that the promo talks about the car in Supernatural. Maybe it will be a "ghost car", cause that thing got totalled. There wasn't any restoring that.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's interesting (and very disappointing if true), because I saw a promo on WBNX less than a week ago that said they were "going digital" (no mention of HD) this summer. I suppose they could have meant a cable-only feed, although it didn't sound like that.



I got the same response in my E-Mail to WBNX's viewer feedback address, by the way, as was printed above:



> Quote:
> Thank you for your feedback. An antenna has to still be designed and built at our transmitter site. Spring of 2007 is a likely date. Thank you for watching wbnx-tv!



Maybe this person who responded to me doesn't have the full story, or maybe they ARE doing a cable only feed.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got the same response in my E-Mail to WBNX's viewer feedback address, by the way, as was printed above:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this person who responded to me doesn't have the full story, or maybe they ARE doing a cable only feed.



I wonder if they could do a low-power STA this summer (like WVIZ) until the full-power antenna is up?


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And if I remember downtown Pittsburgh enough, that's really not a far fiber haul...just across one of the rivers and maybe two or three blocks. It may be closer than WKYC-to-Jacobs Field.




I think that's even closer, than over the river. This is just behind the parking lot, under I-279, maybe under railroad tracks too. They already have three lines run back to the studio from PNC, and one from FSN to PNC. I asked further and they said it's pretty much a done deal, it's going to happen. Mainly due to the success of STO/WKYC.


----------



## HDTD

I'm moving to a Cox Cabled community (currently on Adelphia) wondering if folks are happy with their HD tier?


I noticed no ESPN2, but yes on TNT (just in time for me to move with basketball almost over







). Also, their website lists STO as future HD, wondering if they're on or not?


Thanks!


----------



## Rijax

I'm not unhappy with my cox HD tier, but I would, naturally, like to see more. I wish they had ESPN2 HD, HDNet HDNet Movies, OLN (standard and HD - I'm a hockey fan), etc. We've been enjoying STO HD on channel 758 since the first week of the season, so no problem there.


----------



## kosar1985

haven't been here in a while, sorry if this is a repost, but does anyone have info when NBC is updating their ****. I get good reception using the OTA, but it still glitches


----------



## Phoenix2088

Starting on Monday, May 22, WKYC should start broadcasting local news in 1080i HD. Look for it at the 6 PM news hour.


----------



## jaam

I emailed wbnx last yr and they said it would happen in mid 2006. oh ,well


OTA digital is a nightmare. You either get it or you don't. If there are clouds and the wind blows you don't get a multipath ghost ,you get nothing or freeze ups. I have a Sony HDTV with built in tuner and the only ch I can get on a consistent basis is ch43. At times I can pick up Detroit better than Cleveland as it skips across the lake and I live in Eastlake. Had to go with Cable ( Comcast).

P.S. I hope WKYC news will be as you said. That stretched out 4/3 is a joke. Makes thier faces look fat. Hear that Mona!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> haven't been here in a while, sorry if this is a repost, but does anyone have info when NBC is updating their ****. I get good reception using the OTA, but it still glitches



If you are referring to WKYC-DT OTA, see post #5428 on the following page for the latest:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...page=181&pp=30 


In a nutshell, don't expect any improvement to their OTA signal until Feb 2009.


Actually, you are fortunate that you only get glitches. For me, WKYC-DT completely disappears for weeks at a time.


----------



## flatiron

Caught the last few minutes of Channel 3 News at 11PM tonight, and studio portion of newscast was in HD with a new set. Taped reports were in pillarbox similar to Fox 8 (except with plain black bars w/o any sidebar logo). Commercials still in stretch-o-vision.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Caught the last few minutes of Channel 3 News at 11PM tonight, and studio portion of newscast was in HD with a new set. Taped reports were in pillarbox similar to Fox 8 (except with plain black bars w/o any sidebar logo). Commercials still in stretch-o-vision.



Two days ahead of schedule, very nice.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Two days ahead of schedule, very nice.




No WKYC HD 6 or 11pm news Sunday night, in fact it looked like the studio talent came off of a make shift set. The lighting was bad, but the cameras looked really sharp in SD. Lip Sync was way off, and a lot of the SD video looked like it was passed through a cheap upconverter (very shaky, edges look digitized and jagged). It could be a rocky week for WKYC HD.



No Monday morning local shows in HD either.


----------



## lefkas

Anyone know why Fox 8 was coming in on both 8-1 and 27-5 last night ? I thought Channel 27 was WKBN out of Youngstown.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know why Fox 8 was coming in on both 8-1 and 27-5 last night ? I thought Channel 27 was WKBN out of Youngstown.



I thought something was goofy at my girlfriend's house, I saw the same thing. I found it during a commercial break and was excited to see if it was WKBN, but no Fox 8.


No idea why, it was still coming in at 31-1.


----------



## Inundated

I didn't see the WKYC morning shows today, but last night's 11 PM cast was not in HD. They're sitting at a tiny, improvised set off the newsroom for now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought something was goofy at my girlfriend's house, I saw the same thing. I found it during a commercial break and was excited to see if it was WKBN, but no Fox 8.



FOX 17/62 out of Youngstown is on 27-2 (SD subchannel). Maybe that's what the OP was seeing.


----------



## Phoenix2088

The 6 PM broadcast on WKYC later today is supposed to be the official announcement of the switch to HD. More than likely the Saturday broadcast was to work out the bugs.


----------



## Inundated

WKYC unveiled its new HD newscast at 6.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...hd-switch.html


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC unveiled its new HD newscast at 6.
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...hd-switch.html



Looked very impressive. In addition to the studio shots, many of the reports were entirely or partially in HD (could have been very good widescreen SD in some cases) - the top story report appeared to be entirely in HD. Other reports were pillarbox SD while others were in stretch-o-vision (odd that they would air a mix of pillarbox and stretch-o) . Commercials were mostly stretch-o.


Strangely, the weather segment was in SD with "HD" sidebars similar to ESPN-HD. This was probably because they couldn't insert the weather graphics over the HD video.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looked very impressive. In addition to the studio shots, many of the reports were entirely or partially in HD (could have been very good widescreen SD in some cases) - the top story report appeared to be entirely in HD. Other reports were pillarbox SD while others were in stretch-o-vision (odd that they would air a mix of pillarbox and stretch-o) . Commercials were mostly stretch-o.



We know WKYC can edit HD video...they've had that capability for promos for some time now. I'm not sure what the news people are using in that regard. I'm guessing that the HD video from the field is edited at the station.


It's still a very significant move, IMHO. I watched WRAL/Raleigh's long-time HD newscast last time I was in the region (using my Fusion HDTV tuner) and it looked great. All of their video is in HD, including recorded reports. The only video that wasn't in HD was the network/outside feed stuff.


----------



## hookbill

I took a look at it too. I thought some of it looked a bit odd as there were black areas on top and bottom, but overall pretty nice and a great new set.


Inundated, what shocked me was the story I tuned in on could have come right out of WOIO. Well, it is ratings time.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated, what shocked me was the story I tuned in on could have come right out of WOIO. Well, it is ratings time.



Hah.










Well, at least WKYC is not hiring women of questionable background to get "candid" video inside an adult club. (See the PD over the weekend about that latest WOIO stunt...)


As for the set, it doesn't appear to be "new", but they have spruced it up. It looks like they added a lot of shiny, glossy areas and brighter lighting, and the new logos.


BTW, the weekly Indians show was also in HD in the studio. Well, mostly in HD, as it appeared they were using some 16x9 SD cameras for it...the "long shot" camera looked true HD. And I didn't see any HD highlights, though I missed the parts where they were running the Indians' own highlights from WKYC and STO...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looked very impressive. In addition to the studio shots, many of the reports were entirely or partially in HD (could have been very good widescreen SD in some cases) - the top story report appeared to be entirely in HD. Other reports were pillarbox SD while others were in stretch-o-vision (odd that they would air a mix of pillarbox and stretch-o) . Commercials were mostly stretch-o.
> 
> 
> Strangely, the weather segment was in SD with "HD" sidebars similar to ESPN-HD. This was probably because they couldn't insert the weather graphics over the HD video.



I saw the 11pm WKYC HD newscast tonight and I have to say I was underwhelmed. Fox 8 has set the bar high and got it right the first time out of the gate. WKYC graphics are not HD which I found very distracting. Not having an HD pillarbox graphic (other than the weather segment) was distracting. Fox does a better job of seamlessly integrating the 4:3 SD material with the HD content so you really don't notice. The WKYC broadcast on the other hand had my mind jerking back and forth from a crappy 4:3 segment to an HD segment with crappy SD graphics overlay, back and forth.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We know WKYC can edit HD video...they've had that capability for promos for some time now. I'm not sure what the news people are using in that regard. I'm guessing that the HD video from the field is edited at the station.
> 
> 
> It's still a very significant move, IMHO. I watched WRAL/Raleigh's long-time HD newscast last time I was in the region (using my Fusion HDTV tuner) and it looked great. All of their video is in HD, including recorded reports. The only video that wasn't in HD was the network/outside feed stuff.




I know they can record and play back HD video, but for news I'm still not certain they can edit it. A lot of the promos they shot for Olympics they outsourced to a local production house that shoots and edits true 1080i HD.


I think a lot of what we saw was high quality SD 16x9. In talking to station guys in April I don't think they were acquiring any true HD field gear. It'd be nice if they had one they could shoot special stuff in. But honestly the SD 16x9 looks so good, I doubt few will notice.


I think it's a huge step in the right direction, and WJW can learn a lot by watching WKYC.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Realize Cleveland is now the only market with two stations doing HD news!!!



I'm fairly sure that Seattle has had two stations doing HD newscasts for some time. Cleveland may be the only other one, though.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure that Seattle has had two stations doing HD newscasts for some time. Cleveland may be the only other one, though.



As someone new to HD TV, I find that really pathetic. There are a lot of major markets out there with big money. At what point will at least half of the over 200 stations on my cable TV (Time Warner) be HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As someone new to HD TV, I find that really pathetic. There are a lot of major markets out there with big money. At what point will at least half of the over 200 stations on my cable TV (Time Warner) be HD?



I find it hard to believe that L.A. and New York don't have at least 2 HD news broadcasts. Not calling anyone a liar, just seems strange.


Anyway I suspect it will be be a long time before you see 1/2 of your cable stations with hd due to the higher bandwith it takes to broadcast hd. However as new technology emerges I'm sure we will see more.


I don't know if you can remember this or not but I recall a time when a show broadcast in "color" was not common place. That took a few years to catch on.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As someone new to HD TV, I find that really pathetic. There are a lot of major markets out there with big money. At what point will at least half of the over 200 stations on my cable TV (Time Warner) be HD?



Except that I really seem to think of HD News Broadcasts being really uninteresting. I'd rather have a network put money into signal strength and consistency or into broadcasting local stuff, like sporting events, in HD. I'd rather have the Indy 500 in 5.1 digital that the news in HD. Honestly, the news in my opinion should be the last thing to be put into HD. Of course, I may be stretching it by calling it "the news" instead of tabloid or ratings "journalism".


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Group.
> 
> 
> I'm all for picking a station to pester each week. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
> 
> 
> Ray



Please proceed gently. The squeaky wheel also gets a reputation!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if you can remember this or not but I recall a time when a show broadcast in "color" was not common place. That took a few years to catch on.



And even after all these decades, there are still many old re-runs being aired in black and white. Yet I don't feel any particular need to complain to the syndicators that all those shows should be colorized and re-telecine'd into HD.


When we got our first color set, I certainly didn't expect to see everything, or even _most_ things, in color. I don't expect to see most things in HD for a long, long time and I'm ok with that. It's still an expensive conversion and it will take as long as it takes, so we'll be watching SD content with pillarboxes for quite some time


In a way it's fun to watch a whole new era of television unfolding right before our eyes. Seeing some of the early HD trials (and errors, in some cases) reminds me of the early days of videotape. I saw all sorts of technical weirdness on the air back then, when stations first started experimenting with "the magic of videotape." It was like watching an infant take it's first wobbly steps.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure that Seattle has had two stations doing HD newscasts for some time. Cleveland may be the only other one, though.




You're right! I deleted that from my post.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Except that I really seem to think of HD News Broadcasts being really uninteresting. I'd rather have a network put money into signal strength and consistency or into broadcasting local stuff, like sporting events, in HD. I'd rather have the Indy 500 in 5.1 digital that the news in HD. Honestly, the news in my opinion should be the last thing to be put into HD. Of course, I may be stretching it by calling it "the news" instead of tabloid or ratings "journalism".




You're absolutely right. Sports, nature programs, travel shows, cooking, movies and many many more just lend themselves better to HD than local news. The local news is the cash cow and centerpiece for many stations, and I think once you see an HD commitment there, that the other things follow. Investment into better transmission gear, more attention to the HD signal, and not just the tiny router in the corner that's slaved to the analog master control switcher. I think when a Fox 8 or WKYC make a jump into HD that they become much more serious about the rest of their HD product.


----------



## HDTD

Anyone notice that the "HD" sideflag looks strikingly similar to ESPN/2s? Wondering if anyone has the ability to frame capture into a jpeg or something to compare.


Also seems as if the station doesn't know when to flag and when not to. You'll go through a half dozen news stories, then the weather all 4:3 sideflagged, then hit sports and just get black edge cropping, then back to the sideflag.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone notice that the "HD" sideflag looks strikingly similar to ESPN/2s? Wondering if anyone has the ability to frame capture into a jpeg or something to compare.



I can capture from WKYC in HD...I can't capture from ESPNHD/ESPN2HD, though. (Need the box upstairs to watch that.) I've already got a WKYC HD capture of the weather segment, I'll just have to go upstairs and take a picture of the screen for ESPN sometime.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also seems as if the station doesn't know when to flag and when not to. You'll go through a half dozen news stories, then the weather all 4:3 sideflagged, then hit sports and just get black edge cropping, then back to the sideflag.



The WKYC HD news broadcast still seems to have some rough edges. I don't know if it's just my monitor, but the upconverted SD graphics (weather, etc.) seem to be on the jaggie side. And as I read elsewhere, it does appear that the station's Akron/Canton stuff is not in widescreen at this time.


It's hard to tell about the field video being in 16x9 SD or HD, but I'd have to agree that it's probably SD at this time. (It does look pretty good for what it is.)


Odd, that WJW only uses 16x9 SD field video for their live shots, and goes to 4x3 for recorded video. I assume WJW has the same constraints that WKYC has, as far as having to ship out 4x3 video to non-HD sources (the network, other stations), so I don't know what's up with that.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can capture from WKYC in HD...I can't capture from ESPNHD/ESPN2HD, though. (Need the box upstairs to watch that.) I've already got a WKYC HD capture of the weather segment, I'll just have to go upstairs and take a picture of the screen for ESPN sometime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The WKYC HD news broadcast still seems to have some rough edges. I don't know if it's just my monitor, but the upconverted SD graphics (weather, etc.) seem to be on the jaggie side. And as I read elsewhere, it does appear that the station's Akron/Canton stuff is not in widescreen at this time.
> 
> 
> It's hard to tell about the field video being in 16x9 SD or HD, but I'd have to agree that it's probably SD at this time. (It does look pretty good for what it is.)
> 
> 
> Odd, that WJW only uses 16x9 SD field video for their live shots, and goes to 4x3 for recorded video. I assume WJW has the same constraints that WKYC has, as far as having to ship out 4x3 video to non-HD sources (the network, other stations), so I don't know what's up with that.



That's ok on the capture, watching ESPN's closer, their graphic has a lightsource with that looks like a spotlight over the "HD." Maybe WKYC's artist simply took inspiration from ESPN.


You're right on the jagged edge stuff. I notice that on the STO downconverted cameras that visiting TV gets.


I think WKYC's ok with feeding 16x9 out to other sources, because it's still framed for 4:3 for the 4:3 world. So they just send out a 4:3 centercut downconverted feed any time they need to uplink local video to the network or anyone else. I watched again really close and still couldn't tell if it was SD 16x9 or an HD one.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're right on the jagged edge stuff. I notice that on the STO downconverted cameras that visiting TV gets.



I don't know if this has been mentioned (sorry if it has), but I think the score strip at the top of the HD STO games looks terrible. Very fuzzy and jagged despite the HD beauty of the actual game action. It's been like that for every game. Could be related to the WKYC news graphics.


----------



## hookbill

Want to talk about bad HD. Anybody see the Tribes game on ESPN today? Sound and picture problems were horrible.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if this has been mentioned (sorry if it has), but I think the score strip at the top of the HD STO games looks terrible. Very fuzzy and jagged despite the HD beauty of the actual game action. It's been like that for every game. Could be related to the WKYC news graphics.



I didn't think the STO score strip looks that bad, but when WKYC is airing a game, the added blue "Channel 3 Sports" logo does look bad.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Want to talk about bad HD. Anybody see the Tribes game on ESPN today? Sound and picture problems were horrible.



They had problems on the SD channel too. Maybe a bad satellite link.


----------



## JJkizak

hookbill:

In my opinion that broadcast on channel 3 was digital 16 x 9 because of all the out of focus backgrounds and ordinary forgrounds. There was nothing "HD" about it.


JJK


----------



## frogster

Are there any good antenna installers in the area?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frogster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are there any good antenna installers in the area?



I have no experience with them but one of our forum members made a previous recommendation for Cleveland Antenna at 440-237-6888. He was very satisfied with their work.


----------



## jtscherne

I used Cleveland Antenna and was very satisfied. The technician used a meter to measure signal strength and made recommendations that would give me the best possible signal.


----------



## desmoface

Hey gang, I appologize if this has already been discussed but I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. I am getting a pay per view even and had to pick up a motorola hd cable tuner box from comcast cable. I plugged it into my 50" sony big screen using a dvi (cable box) to hdmi (tv) cable and had to use rca's for audio...Everything is working except that I only get 480 on chanels I used to get 720p on. Is this normal?


I normally just run the cable from the wall right into the tv's internal tuner and get excellent 720p on certain broadcasts..only 480 with the hd cable box. Hope I explained that correctly. Thanks for any advice.


Steve


----------



## Tom in OH

Did anyone notice a glitch in the "IDOL" show on Fox 8-1 ota last night or on cable?


It happened at about the :59 minute mark when the show went back to the beginning scene where all 12 idols walked out on stage. Then, back to correct time showing Kari Underwood in SD with bars on the left and right.


Then back to HD with several dropouts for the 2nd hour.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey gang, I appologize if this has already been discussed but I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. I am getting a pay per view even and had to pick up a motorola hd cable tuner box from comcast cable. I plugged it into my 50" sony big screen using a dvi (cable box) to hdmi (tv) cable and had to use rca's for audio...Everything is working except that I only get 480 on chanels I used to get 720p on. Is this normal?
> 
> 
> I normally just run the cable from the wall right into the tv's internal tuner and get excellent 720p on certain broadcasts..only 480 with the hd cable box. Hope I explained that correctly. Thanks for any advice.
> 
> 
> Steve



It could be two things:

1. The DVI-to-HDMI link is not doing a proper HDCP handshake and it defaults to 480 downrezzed output to defeat copying of HD content (by the way I have this same problem -- my SA8000HD DVI output doesn't talk to my Panny plasma correctly because this copy protection crap is so poorly implemented -- thus, I use component cables for HD)


2. Your cable box is not set to pass through HD content and is downrezzing everything to 480. There should be a forum here on AVS for your model cable box that will explain how to set up the box correctly.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey gang, I appologize if this has already been discussed but I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. I am getting a pay per view even and had to pick up a motorola hd cable tuner box from comcast cable. I plugged it into my 50" sony big screen using a dvi (cable box) to hdmi (tv) cable and had to use rca's for audio...Everything is working except that I only get 480 on chanels I used to get 720p on. Is this normal?
> 
> 
> I normally just run the cable from the wall right into the tv's internal tuner and get excellent 720p on certain broadcasts..only 480 with the hd cable box. Hope I explained that correctly. Thanks for any advice.
> 
> 
> Steve



Hi Steve,

are u receiving only 480P on all channels? Maybe the cable box is set by default to output 480p until u change it to native(or set it to output 720p only).


----------



## desmoface

Hey Paul & Tom, thanks for the info/advice. I actually only tried it on fox 8 as it usually has the best hd broadcast..It was only 480 where it is normally 720p. If I just use the component video rca's should I be able to get the 720P? I will probably try that when I get home and see if it works. Thanks again.


Steve


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Paul & Tom, thanks for the info/advice. I actually only tried it on fox 8 as it usually has the best hd broadcast..It was only 480 where it is normally 720p. If I just use the component video rca's should I be able to get the 720P? I will probably try that when I get home and see if it works. Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Steve



Yes, if you use the component RCA's you should be able to get 720p and 1080i. If you still don't see 720p or 1080i, then the box settings need to be changed to allow the higher rez output.


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I used Cleveland Antenna and was very satisfied. The technician used a meter to measure signal strength and made recommendations that would give me the best possible signal.



that sounds like the place to go with. I'm considering dropping my cable HD service (wowway).


any rough idea on about how much it would cost to install a satelite on the roof or attic?


----------



## desmoface

Ok Paul, thanks a lot for the info.


Steve



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, if you use the component RCA's you should be able to get 720p and 1080i. If you still don't see 720p or 1080i, then the box settings need to be changed to allow the higher rez output.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have no experience with them but one of our forum members made a previous recommendation for Cleveland Antenna at 440-237-6888. He was very satisfied with their work.



I have also used them and I too was VERY satisfied with their work. Jim West is the owner. His son Joel will come to your house.


----------



## frogster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have also used them and I too was VERY satisfied with their work. Jim West is the owner. His son Joel will come to your house.



I talked to Jim and he is very helpful. A stationary antenna will get all of the cleveland stations at my location.


----------



## desmoface

Hey Gang, thanks for all the advice..I broke down and called comcast and I guess when using the cable/hd box the hi def stuff is around channel 200..I was tuning to channel 8.


Another thing, he had me tune to some hd channel that looked fantastic..it was in 1080i. I always thought that 720p was better than 1080i but he said that 1080i was better because it had more lines on the screen. I had always heard that progressive was better than interlaced so much that 720p beat out 1080i.


It usually beared itself out as the best hd content at our home is on fox 8 in 720p..but the 1080i channel did look almost as good as fox 8 in 720p..


Thanks again.


Steve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, if you use the component RCA's you should be able to get 720p and 1080i. If you still don't see 720p or 1080i, then the box settings need to be changed to allow the higher rez output.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another thing, he had me tune to some hd channel that looked fantastic..it was in 1080i. I always thought that 720p was better than 1080i but he said that 1080i was better because it had more lines on the screen. I had always heard that progressive was better than interlaced so much that 720p beat out 1080i.
> 
> 
> It usually beared itself out as the best hd content at our home is on fox 8 in 720p..but the 1080i channel did look almost as good as fox 8 in 720p..
> 
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Steve



Steve....Never believe anything anybody tells you at the cable company unless one of us confirms it.










The 720p vs 1080i has been greatly debated. Quite honestly on my HD set I can't really see the difference. My television is suppose to be 1080i native but I think 780p looks just as good, sometimes better. That's comparing football on FOX vs NBC. I think the best looking programs on television are CSI: Miami (1080i) and Lost (720p).


----------



## desmoface

Hi Hookbill, thanks for the info..I've heard that about cable companies LOL...I agree, I think the best stuff I've ever seen was when fox shows nascar...I've seen some excellent baseball and football on fox also...Funny, I don't like football, baseball or nascar but I watch it cause the picture is so damn good LOL..


Thanks again for the info.


Steve



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Steve....Never believe anything anybody tells you at the cable company unless one of us confirms it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 720p vs 1080i has been greatly debated. Quite honestly on my HD set I can't really see the difference. My television is suppose to be 1080i native but I think 780p looks just as good, sometimes better. That's comparing football on FOX vs NBC. I think the best looking programs on television are CSI: Miami (1080i) and Lost (720p).


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Steve....Never believe anything anybody tells you at the cable company unless one of us confirms it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 720p vs 1080i has been greatly debated. Quite honestly on my HD set I can't really see the difference. My television is suppose to be 1080i native but I think 780p looks just as good, sometimes better. That's comparing football on FOX vs NBC. I think the best looking programs on television are CSI: Miami (1080i) and Lost (720p).




If I'm not mistaken the cable companies cross convert any 720p to 1080i for transmission down their lines. So any loss you'd see via cable would come in cross conversion.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I'm not mistaken the cable companies cross convert any 720p to 1080i for transmission down their lines. So any loss you'd see via cable would come in cross conversion.



Your mistaking.










When I first got HD about 2 years ago Adelphia CSR's would not discuss technical issues concerning HD. There was even a selection on their menu for "HD" so you could speak directly with someone in that department. I asked about conversions from 720p to 1080i. The person I spoke with assured me that there the transmissions were not converted.


Anyway when you receive a 720p or 1080i transmission on either the SA 8300 or SA 8000 it shows as either 720p or 1080i.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyway when you receive a 720p or 1080i transmission on either the SA 8300 or SA 8000 it shows as either 720p or 1080i.



Same thing here with Wide Open West. No conversion is going on. From general experience all over AVS, if you call a cable company about a problem with an HD broadcast, they are usually quite emphatic that they are "hands off" and like Sgt. Schultz, have nothing, NOTHING, to do with problems in the HD stream.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same thing here with Wide Open West. No conversion is going on. From general experience all over AVS, if you call a cable company about a problem with an HD broadcast, they are usually quite emphatic that they are "hands off" and like Sgt. Schultz, have nothing, NOTHING, to do with problems in the HD stream.



The receivers (both satellite and off air) that most cable companies use output an ASI bitstream. The ASI bitstream goes into the QAM modulator. So that means they have to buy 1 receiver and 1/2 of a QAM modulator (usually they only put 2 HD signals on one QAM channel). To down convert 1080i to 720p, that ASI bitstream would have to go into a format converter. Those things aren't cheap so it's probably more cost effective to buy another QAM modulator. It just doesn't make sens to down convert unless you don't have to.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To down convert 1080i to 720p, that ASI bitstream would have to go into a format converter. Those things aren't cheap so it's probably more cost effective to buy another QAM modulator. It just doesn't make sens to down convert unless you don't have to.



There's actually more temporal resolution in 720p because the frame rate is effectively doubled because of the lack of interlacing. Thus there's not much of an incentive to convert from 1080i to 720p or vice-versa. And you're right, they generally don't convert in the headend. They leave that choice up to the subscriber by way of the STB's display options.


----------



## mrblond128

For those looking for an update on HD locals from DirecTV here is a response I jut received from them......


Thanks for asking about HD programming. I know that HD programming is important to you and DIRECTV is committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you. In recent months, we have launched the first two of four satellites that will allow us to greatly expand our HD local channel offerings.


The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities. We plan to launch local channels in Cleveland on June 28, 2006 and with many more to come later this year.


Customers who have DIRECTV HD equipment and want to receive local HD programming from DIRECTV will be eligible for an MPEG-4-capable receiver replacement after we launch local HD programming in your city. (If you want to replace your HD DVR, you will need to wait a bit longer. Our new MPEG-4-capable DIRECTV HD DVR is expected to be available sometime later this year.


More details will be available when we launch the local HD service in your area, so watch your local TV, radio or mailbox for upcoming announcements or visit DIRECTV.com/HD 


Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about HD programming.


Sincerely,


Marjorie F

DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## gass

The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities. We plan to launch local channels in Cleveland on June 28, 2006 and with many more to come later this year.


HOLY COW! That's the first "straight" answer I heard from D* ever. Thanks for the update.


----------



## paule123

For those of you interested in comparing HD formats, the Indians/White Sox game is on ESPN (720p) and STO (1080i) tonight.


ESPN seems to zoom in more on objects giving an illusion of greater detail (on the pitcher for instance). ESPN audio also has more "life" to it with the crowd noise dialed up. Hard for me to tell a difference in PQ, but then my Panny is only 1024x768 native...


----------



## EricG

Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.



Pretty much same as last year. We won't have all the games in HD until the NFL requires it in 2009. CBS is doing the AFC again this upcoming season, so that means only 3 games per Sunday in HD. If the Browns continue to suck, you can rest assured CBS won't make it a priority to put their games in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

There are three that should definitely be in HD:


Sunday, September 10 NEW ORLEANS SAINTS

FOX


1:00 PM

Thursday, December 7 @ Pittsburgh Steelers

NFL Net


1:00 PM

Sunday, December 24 TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS

FOX



The rest of the games are on CBS, so it will be week to week as to whether any other Browns games will be among the three they show in HD.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.


----------



## gass




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.




Last place, just like last year.


Go STEELERS!


----------



## Argee

Anyone else getting lots of audio dropouts on the HD Indians feed tonight?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *EricG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.



That talk proved premature. CBS will gradually add a game a week each year or so until 2009, when the NFL contract will call for all games to be in HD.


I don't know if they'll add a game this year or not.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else getting lots of audio dropouts on the HD Indians feed tonight?



Just tuned in, no problems in the past 5 minutes here. I'm on Adelphia watching on HD 798.


I'm not running a 5.1 system, though, just stereo speakers.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you interested in comparing HD formats, the Indians/White Sox game is on ESPN (720p) and STO (1080i) tonight.
> 
> 
> ESPN seems to zoom in more on objects giving an illusion of greater detail (on the pitcher for instance). ESPN audio also has more "life" to it with the crowd noise dialed up. Hard for me to tell a difference in PQ, but then my Panny is only 1024x768 native...




I thought the ESPN cameras looked a little richer in color. When they both showed the green PVI ad screen in the behind home plate the ESPN green looked really vibrant, where the STO looked kinda blah. A lot of that picture quality can depend on who is actually color correcting the cameras in the trucks too.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought the ESPN cameras looked a little richer in color. When they both showed the green PVI ad screen in the behind home plate the ESPN green looked really vibrant, where the STO looked kinda blah. A lot of that picture quality can depend on who is actually color correcting the cameras in the trucks too.



The irony of the two presentations was that ESPN looked more "natural" i.e., less of the harsh lighting, while the STO presentation was more like you really see it in person *with* the harsher bright white lights... (just got home from the game tonight for reference







)


BTW, the HD on the Hitachi plasmas (Adelphia channel 798) in the Club Lounge looked a little crappy to me -- I don't notice the pixelation on my Wide Open West STO HD channel at home... Do you think Adelphia is bandwidth starving STO HD a little bit?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, the HD on the Hitachi plasmas (Adelphia channel 798) in the Club Lounge looked a little crappy to me -- I don't notice the pixelation on my Wide Open West STO HD channel at home... Do you think Adelphia is bandwidth starving STO HD a little bit?



No. It looks fine to me. But I can't wait to see those new Plasmas in the lounge this year.


My wife will probably wonder where the hell I am.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just tuned in, no problems in the past 5 minutes here. I'm on Adelphia watching on HD 798.
> 
> 
> I'm not running a 5.1 system, though, just stereo speakers.



I watched the game with my 5.1 system on and noticed no dropouts (Adelphia in Solon). I did notice digital breakups on CBS and NBC during the 10 o'clock hour, probably due to the thunderstorms entering the area.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No. It looks fine to me. But I can't wait to see those new Plasmas in the lounge this year.



Everything looked good on my Panny on 798 at home last night... may have been local cable signal level issues within the Jake....


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No. It looks fine to me. But I can't wait to see those new Plasmas in the lounge this year.
> 
> 
> My wife will probably wonder where the hell I am.




They put one of those plasmas up in the high home Jacob's Field camera booth. Already there is really heavy black burn in where the 4:3 world ends and 16:9 begins. That convinced me not to go plasma.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They put one of those plasmas up in the high home Jacob's Field camera booth. Already there is really heavy black burn in where the 4:3 world ends and 16:9 begins. That convinced me not to go plasma.



More than likely they never took it out of factory torch mode. Contrast was probably set at 100% and left there. The phosphors wear out in no time if you choose to not properly configure it. A properly set up plasma(or CRT) will last a long time(and display a more accurate picture) if it is configured correctly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> More than likely they never took it out of factory torch mode. Contrast was probably set at 100% and left there. The phosphors wear out in no time if you choose to not properly configure it. A properly set up plasma(or CRT) will last a long time(and display a more accurate picture) if it is configured correctly.



Your probably right, though it's a little tough to imagine. I understand most normal people coming home with an HDTV and not knowing it needs to be tuned (I was until I came here). But you would think with all the electronics and engineers at Jacobs Field someone should have had a clue.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> More than likely they never took it out of factory torch mode. Contrast was probably set at 100% and left there. The phosphors wear out in no time if you choose to not properly configure it. A properly set up plasma(or CRT) will last a long time(and display a more accurate picture) if it is configured correctly.



Any Plasma, even with constrast / brightness set appropriately, in fairly short time, will get burn-in if left with static images for long periods of time. In Sound & Visions LCD vs. Plasma Shootout article last year one of the main negatives of the Plasma was burn-in on static images, even if set correctly. Even CRT's can get burn-in, although it's much more difficult for that to happen to a CRT. My buddy worked for Audio Craft for many years and there was a Diamond series Mitsubishi CRT HDTV that got the PBS logo burned into it only after a few months of being on the floor. It was setup properly too, but the logo was basically on it every single day and all day. Plasma's are far easier to burn-in and even when set properly have been known to get burn-in in just a few days if left on a DVD menu with no screen saver. We had a Plasma TV as an information screen from our home office where I worked. I personally setup the TV's color, constrast, brightness etc... and just as I had predicted, the static parts of the displays from the home office (ie boxes of info, charts, etc...) had burned in perminantly within 4 months.


Anyway, some plasma's have better tools than others to help avoid burn-in or referse burn-in should it happen, to some extent, however, it's certainly not suprising that the one at Jacob's field got it so quickly. And just as you said, if they left contrast at 100%, that makes it even more likely to happen very very quickly.


----------



## JJkizak

Finally watched channel 3 news OTA. The studio was outstanding in color and sharpness and black levels. Ranks with the best I have seen. The weather graphics were terrible with huge amounts of spidering. The mobile widescreen shots were pretty good (NO twenty images as channel 8 Fox) but low light shots were terrible. My Z1 would blow those cameras away for low light situations. They still did a lot of stretched SD on commercials. I was impressed with the studio shots though.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid

There are a lot of people who traipse through that control room. I've passed through there several times and I've seen the TV set's settings monkeyed with quite a bit. I'm not blaming anyone; my point is that even if it was set up correctly the first time, it probably didn't stay that way for long.


I've also seen other plasma sets that have burned in pretty quickly from 4:3 pillarboxes or stationary text messages. I was asked to look at one plasma set that had been running as an information kiosk for a year. I found that the upper portion of the screen had all of the green phosphors *completely* burned away!


----------



## HDTD

I always crack up at the Continental Airlines plasmas at Cleveland Hopkins Airport have horrendous burn-in. Of course I don't think those monitors were ever designed for data like flight arrival and departure graphics.


----------



## paule123

Today's Indians/Angels game was originally scheduled for 1pm on WKYC, and it's been moved to ESPN at 8pm. Anybody know how/when they make these decisions? (not that I'm complaining, it's all HD so it's all good) Will WKYC pick up another game in HD to compensate for their "loss" to ESPN?


----------



## jtscherne

When the switch was announced earlier, it was stated that WKYC will pick up another game at some point. Next Sunday's game was moved to 8:00 p.m. too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Today's Indians/Angels game was originally scheduled for 1pm on WKYC, and it's been moved to ESPN at 8pm. Anybody know how/when they make these decisions? (not that I'm complaining, it's all HD so it's all good) Will WKYC pick up another game in HD to compensate for their "loss" to ESPN?



The how part is easy. ESPN says your Sunday Night Baseball per our contract with MLB. When this happens I'm not sure of.


I looked at STO's schedule yesterday and saw they had the game listed on ESPN.


As a transplanted Los Angelino I'm telling you guys, I am trying to pull for the Tribe.....but they are making it difficult. I boldy emailed my buddy in L.A. telling him to expect what happened on Saturday to happen again today (after all CC was pitching).


Let me continue about my bad baseball day:


1. I have the Dodgers delayed because the channel In Demand is showing it on has the Mets and the hated Giants.


2. Hated Giants take lead, Mets tie , Hated Giants go into extra innings further delaying my game. I now have XM on so I can at least listen to it.


3. Dodgers tie game but Hated Giants win in extra innings. Dodgers blow several opportunities and loose to Philadelphia.


4. Red Sox beat Tigers which is good because I like Red Sox and want Cleveland to win division.


5. Unless a comeback happens Tribe are going to blow two to Anaheim. And my buddy in L.A. will be in my electronic face.


OK so only one game I talked about was in HD, but I gotta rant somewhere.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When the switch was announced earlier, it was stated that WKYC will pick up another game at some point. Next Sunday's game was moved to 8:00 p.m. too.




WKYC may be forced to "make good" on the game due to commitments to advertisers. Then again, who knows if they've bundled STO/WKYC ads in as "Indians" ads regardless of what channel they're on. I doubt it though, because WKYC's naturally going to have a better draw.


----------



## Inundated

There's a 1:05 PM game on 8/12 as part of a day/night doubleheader, thanks to a game rained out earlier with the Royals. So far, the STO schedule says "No TV" for that early game, but I imagine that could be one of the games WKYC picks up...


----------



## jtscherne

Not likely. August 12th is a Saturday and Fox has exclusive rights to Saturday day games.


----------



## jtscherne

 Cable operators find it tough to swallow HDTV


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> Cable operators find it tough to swallow HDTV



As much as I love Satallite over cable I don't think that at this time in our area that satallite offers more HD then cable.


Other then that the article simply outlines the same problems that we've known about for some time now.


Good to hear the prediction that HD will outsell SD this year.


----------



## jtscherne

It depends on whether you count Voom or not. Dish is now offering 22 channels to all HD subscribers, plus HBO and Showtime. They're supposed to be adding HGTV, National Geographic, and Food Network soon. They also have an HD PPV channel with regular movie offerings and also offer HD baseball and basketball to subscribers to the sports packages. Last week for example, they had an HD baseball game on every day (and yes, that includes the Dodgers!) (I won't even talk about the number of SD channels they use for Extra Innings so that there aren't conflicts like you had to deal with yesterday!)


The main difference at this point is the availability of local HD channels. Alos, inHD 1 & 2 are cable only. Dish still hasn't stated when Cleveland locals will be available, but it will be sooner than any major cable changes, I suspect.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It depends on whether you count Voom or not. Dish is now offering 22 channels to all HD subscribers, plus HBO and Showtime. They're supposed to be adding HGTV, National Geographic, and Food Network soon. They also have an HD PPV channel with regular movie offerings and also offer HD baseball and basketball to subscribers to the sports packages. Last week for example, they had an HD baseball game on every day (and yes, that includes the Dodgers!) (I won't even talk about the number of SD channels they use for Extra Innings so that there aren't conflicts like you had to deal with yesterday!)
> 
> 
> The main difference at this point is the availability of local HD channels. Alos, inHD 1 & 2 are cable only. Dish still hasn't stated when Cleveland locals will be available, but it will be sooner than any major cable changes, I suspect.



Just so we're clear, I would love to have satallite over cable and I'm probably going to give it a shot again when they start offering locals in HD. I'm even considering Dish as an option. What I need to get in HD locally still will be CW and My Network, neither of which will probably be available over Adelphia..or TW or whatever it is later.










As far as baseball goes, we do get INHD2 with MLB in HD but very few games.


And I could see from the scrolling on the bottom of the screen that other companies were offering places to go due to conflict, including Comcast. They finally made the Dodger game available on an unused channel but it took 3 innings before they got to it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It depends on whether you count Voom or not. Dish is now offering 22 channels to all HD subscribers, plus HBO and Showtime. They're supposed to be adding HGTV, National Geographic, and Food Network soon. They also have an HD PPV channel with regular movie offerings and also offer HD baseball and basketball to subscribers to the sports packages. Last week for example, they had an HD baseball game on every day (and yes, that includes the Dodgers!) (I won't even talk about the number of SD channels they use for Extra Innings so that there aren't conflicts like you had to deal with yesterday!)
> 
> 
> The main difference at this point is the availability of local HD channels. Alos, inHD 1 & 2 are cable only. Dish still hasn't stated when Cleveland locals will be available, but it will be sooner than any major cable changes, I suspect.



I have Dish Network. My receiver is a 921 hooked to an analog TV for now. I would never purchase the Cleveland Locals SD or HD since I can get them in all their uncompressed glory OTA, integrated with the satellite channels on the 921.


I realize I'm living in the tenna farm, but wait! I also get WKBN-DT with an indoor Silver Sensor. So if I can get a station like WKBN OTA at 50+ miles it's the station's signal strength and tower height that is getting it out better than other stations. If the Cleveland stations only had a comparable signal fewer viewers would need satellite LIL's or cable to get their digital locals. (even I get occasional greif from WKYC-DT and I can see their frekin' tower out my back window)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not likely. August 12th is a Saturday and Fox has exclusive rights to Saturday day games.



It's also my birthday.










If FOX doesn't pick up this day game, can WKYC grab it, or are they not allowed to do so being an OTA non-FOX station?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> . If the Cleveland stations only had a comparable signal fewer viewers would need satellite LIL's or cable to get their digital locals. (even I get occasional greif from WKYC-DT and I can see their frekin' tower out my back window)



We actually do pretty good with OTA in this market, aside from the problem children, like WKYC-DT (low VHF), WOIO-DT (high VHF, lower power, channel 10 interference from Ontario and Columbus), WVIZ-DT (puny power until later this summer), and WBNX-DT (won't be on until who knows?).


OK, so that's four stations.


But everyone else in the market blasts down here into my indoor antenna in northwest Akron, and I also get WKBN-DT. There are markets with far worse OTA reception.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If FOX doesn't pick up this day game, can WKYC grab it, or are they not allowed to do so being an OTA non-FOX station?



FOX has an iron clad hand on what baseball you watch on Saturday. If they don't show it, you don't watch it.


At the start of the season someone mentioned here that this is FOX's last year with the contract. I also heard one of the announcers ask the commisioner to have them come back. I sure would like to see baseball go back to NBC. I've never cared much for the way FOX presents the game and I would like to see some double headers so we can see teams in the West too.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But everyone else in the market blasts down here into my indoor antenna in northwest Akron, and I also get WKBN-DT. There are markets with far worse OTA reception.



And Univision is showing most of the soccer games for the World Cup, so a person who doesn't like to spend $500 a year on cable or sat tv, can actually watch the World Cup! It won't be in HD (not that I have HD), but it will be in digital.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And Univision is showing most of the soccer games for the World Cup, so a person who doesn't like to spend $500 a year on cable or sat tv, can actually watch the World Cup! It won't be in HD (not that I have HD), but it will be in digital.



Univision? Sorry, No habla Espanol.










For that matter no habla futbol either.


----------



## lefkas

Anyone else notice that the video on CBS Channel 27-Youngstown OTA seems to be in slow motion for the network programming sometimes ? I was watching "The Unit" last night and the whole show seemed to be stilted.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that the video on CBS Channel 27-Youngstown OTA seems to be in slow motion for the network programming sometimes ? I was watching "The Unit" last night and the whole show seemed to be stilted.



Yes I've seen this as well and have reported it over onthe Youngstown forum to the cheif engineer at WKBN who posts over there (as well as the cheif engineer for WFMJ). I wish the engineers from the Cleveland stations woud post over here!


As for the problem - it seem to happen whenever a feature film is shown on CBS HD. I've never seen the "stuttering shutter" effect on regular network programs, nor do I see the problem on WOIO (although I have a different, continuing problem with WOIO which goes away when I watch it on a 3 second PVR delay). I believe the WOIO problem (pulsing chroma) happens only to downconverted, live video on the E* 921. Someone in Detroit with a 921 had the same problem with the NBC affilliate there. Same fix too, watch with a 3 second delay.


My fix for WOIO is to watch WKBN insted


----------



## WKBN Chief

Thanks Guys. Bob (WFMJ Chief) and I do watch this thread and find it very useful. You can't imagine the amount of technology and detail involved in getting a digital high (or standard) definition television signal out for everyone to view. There are dozens of software configurations to have "just right" and then, someone with a peculiar receiver or setup at home will still see or hear a glitch. My point is that having all of your collective equipment and eyeballs looking at our signal helps us to find the problems and (hopefully) get it right.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Hi Tom.


The strobing/stuttering continues. I last time I saw it was Sunday night during the CBS Sunday Night Movie (I tuned in late so I did not know the name of the film). For me it has happened on nearly every feture film (as opposed to made-for-tv programs) on CBS HD. Perhaps thishas something to do with the frame-rate conversion (25 fps to 29.75 fps conversion). I presume this is done at CBS, so why don't I see it on WOIO as well?


I'm watching on a Sony Trinitron 27" using the S-Video input. My tuner is an Echostar PVR 921. I do not see the strobing on WOIO, however I do get a chroma pulsation on every program, network & local, commercials included. WOIO used to be worse, when I first got the 921 I got pink and light green splotches in the picture. From posting on the DBS boards it appears that this problem is limited to the SD downconverted output of the 921 on just one station in the market. As I mentined above a poster in Detroit had the same probelm with WDIV. By watching the program delayed the pulsing goes away.


If you know the cheif at WOIO (or any other Cleveland market station for that matter), turn them on to this site!


BTW: How was WKBN-DT able to get such a large coverage area, when the rest of the stations in the market wern't so lucky?


----------



## WKBN Chief

I've been talking with the manufacturer of my HD encoder and they believe that an upgrade to the current firmware version could fix the strobing issue. However, the support engineer that I spoke with today said that he will have to research this with the software folks to be sure. I was surprised to find that there was not one, but two firmware revisions since I installed my equipment barely seven weeks ago. It just goes to show you that the industry is still growing, changing and adapting as far as digital transmission is concerned. The current version is actually still a beta but it is due to be released to production in a week or two. I could get the beta, but I think that I'll wait for the production release.


As for how WKBN got such a good coverage area compared to most other stations... I don't know that I have a good answer for that. We did have a Canadian interference issue that kind of just went away after a long wait. Most stations would have amended their application by reducing their power or going somewhat directional or both. We never did amend our original application so I don't know what happened there. Perhaps we were just more willing to wait it out. Part of it is luck, for sure. Also, keep in mind that every TV station in the country had to file for a second allocation for their digital channel. This left the airwaves more congested with less opportunity for that long reaching signal.


----------



## jtscherne

Today's Noon home game is on STO, but I just noticed that Adelphia's channel 798 indicates that the next HD game is June 19th....


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Today's Noon home game is on STO, but I just noticed that Adelphia's channel 798 indicates that the next HD game is June 19th....



A little birdie tells me this will be fixed. The game should be on 798 at noon in HD.



...3....2....1.... Poof! It's up.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A little birdie tells me this will be fixed. The game should be on 798 at noon in HD.



Just came on!


----------



## WKBN Chief




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been talking with the manufacturer of my HD encoder and they believe that an upgrade to the current firmware version could fix the strobing issue...



Harris (the encoder manufacturer) did confirm with me that the strobing issue would be fixed in the next firmware release due out in a week or so. I'll make a post when this is done so you can watch for it.


----------



## paule123

I don't know if this is new or what, but on STO on Wide Open West channel 72, they're running infomercials. Ads for Gunnar's magic exercise ball -- I guess that qualifies as additional "sports programming"?










Edit: Looks like the game has been moved from a 2:05 start on STO to 8:05 on ESPN. So much for my refrigerator magnet broadcast schedule... It's great the Indians are getting so much national attention this year, now if they'd only WIN SOME GAMES !


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Edit: Looks like the game has been moved from a 2:05 start on STO to 8:05 on ESPN. So much for my refrigerator magnet broadcast schedule... It's great the Indians are getting so much national attention this year, now if they'd only WIN SOME GAMES !



Well, that explains why I'm not seeing the game, either.


----------



## rlockshin

Can someoe please post a coverage map for WKBN. I am sick and tired of not having DD 5.1 on WOIO.

I leave near intersection of 77 and 18 in Montrose.

When I scan on my Samsung 160 and H20-600 it does not pick up.

I have a large roof antenna aumed towards Cleveland stations.

I pick up all of ch 49's channels on the back side of antenna

Thanks


----------



## Inundated

Here ya go:











You have to point that thing to the southeast. You're not aiming at WKBN-DT either way...either pointing at Parma or the back side.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I get it consistently in the 70% range or so in southern Medina with my attic-mounted Rat-Shack antenna pointed toward Parma.... I guess I'm just really lucky.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get it consistently in the 70% range or so in southern Medina with my attic-mounted Rat-Shack antenna pointed toward Parma.... I guess I'm just really lucky.



Yes you are.

I cannot get it in western summit county.

I am also pointed towards Parma

I have a big outdoors antenna

I hate to buy a rotor


----------



## rlockshin

I dont see why i cannpt receive it. It does not even show up in my available channels on either receiver and I reset receivers


----------



## rlockshin

HELP Please


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HELP Please



You are due west of us. ZMan is northwest if I remember correctly from my soccer dad days. He probably gets it off the back side of his antenna. The back side of your antenna is hitting Canton. Sorry, but you're going to have to get your antenna pointed our way. Either a rotor or another antenna with a combiner.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are due west of us. ZMan is northwest if I remember correctly from my soccer dad days. He probably gets it off the back side of his antenna. The back side of your antenna is hitting Canton. Sorry, but you're going to have to get your antenna pointed our way. Either a rotor or another antenna with a combiner.



Or, heck, maybe even an amplified indoor antenna would do it.


I'm roughly 5 miles east of rlockshin and I get WKBN-DT. I'm pointing just slightly south-southeast.


Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of how to integrate such an indoor antenna with an existing rooftop antenna. And I may just have favorable placement here - I'm up a bit from the Valley and have enough of a clearance in that direction.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are due west of us. ZMan is northwest if I remember correctly from my soccer dad days.



What's really funny is that I'm actually straight west of Youngstown. My antenna is pointed north/northeast toward parma, so I'm picking up KBN either off the side or off of a bounce. I can occassionally pick up 21 on the digital signal, but only if the planets are aligned. The analog signal comes in with quite a bit of snow.


I think I remember rlockshin's location to be right around Routes 18 and 77. If that's the case, I'm about 12 or 13 miles west and 1 mile south of the problem spot. Why I can get the signal reliably and with good strength is truly beyond me.


And maybe I'd better go find some wood to knock on right about now....


----------



## gass

"I think I remember rlockshin's location to be right around Routes 18 and 77. If that's the case, I'm about 12 or 13 miles west and 1 mile south of the problem spot. Why I can get the signal reliably and with good strength is truly beyond me."


There's your problem: you are west of SUMMIT County. Which is part of an official USGEO continental divide. Hense the name Summit. Kent State is also very high in elevation as well as the CAK airport. The best solution is height in most RF problems, but also the most difficult and pain in the rear. I'm in southern Portage, low elevation, and I don't here a peep from KBN, but my radials are pointed to Cleveland so unless I get out of the attic or add another antenna with a combiner, I'm not expecting to see KBN.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Or, heck, maybe even an amplified indoor antenna would do it.
> 
> 
> I'm roughly 5 miles east of rlockshin and I get WKBN-DT. I'm pointing just slightly south-southeast.
> 
> 
> Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of how to integrate such an indoor antenna with an existing rooftop antenna. And I may just have favorable placement here - I'm up a bit from the Valley and have enough of a clearance in that direction.



Sadly, I'm deep in the valley, and my antenna is set up, through alot of trial and error, in a way that it manages to get all the Cleveland stations including WOIO and WKYC. So I dare not even try to change the direction of my indoor antenna. Gosh, won't it be great when everyone has these problems with digital reception?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gosh, won't it be great when everyone has these problems with digital reception?



It is my understanding that one of the reasons we can't receive OTA signals like we could let's say in the 1950's or 60's is because as more OTA signals began to be transmitted more interferrance occured.


For example, when I lived in Hawthorne California in 1966 a rooftop antennae was fine for receiving all local stations. In 1988 I moved not to an apartment not far frome where I lived as a child but OTA reception was darn near impossible. Of course these were just standard definition transmissions but wouldn't the same rule of thumb apply to HD OTA? Specially now in the 21st century where we have not only more radio signals but satallite, wireless phones, internet, etc.


It just seems so much easier to get cable then to have to mess with those antennaes, even though you do miss out on a couple of OTA stations.


----------



## hookbill

I just noticed on Zap2it.com that channel 799 which is listed as HD PPV is now showing slots labeled MLB Extra Innings HD. No games are listed, but as any Adelphia subscriber knows that doesn't mean anything.


I'll keep my eye on channel 799 from time to time and let you know if I see any Exta Innings games shown in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually the inDemand website for Extra Innings states that selected games are now available in HD. However, I couldn't find a list. I know that Dish is showing tonight's Chicago/Texas game in HD (which is sort of silly since ESPN is showing it too!)


P.S., for you Indians fans, remember that Tuesday night's game is on WKYC, so we should be getting it in HD.


----------



## JJkizak

hookbill:

I think it's power. Not enough. The digital stations I receive from 3,5,8,19,43 are solid. Keep in mind in those days there was nothing on UHF that I could receive, it was all on VHF. The UHF spectrum is another ballgame as far as sensitivity, noise figure, etc. When you get up around 500 to 800 meghz things get real noisy and cable transmission losses and VSWR become critical on both the transmitt and receive ends. On PBS the signal varies so much it creates dropouts much like a video camcorder with dirty heads. Drives me right up the wall.

JJK


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HELP Please



From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HELP Please



Since WKBN-DT's coverage area includes all of Akron the first thing I would do is be sure your antenna is as high as possible and aimed almost due East.


I'm getting them in Parma with an indoor Silver Sensor. I have the "SS" on a pile of boxes so the antenna is high. Unfortunately I don't have an east-facing window near the TV, which would be a plus. I sometime do not get a lock, I think that the aluminum siding attenuates the signal. I get WKBN-DT almost every night, but daytime reception is spotty.


I just ordered a Radio Shack UHF antenna, model U75R, cat #15-2160. It has received good reviews from others who used it for digital TV reception at a distance. I'm hoping to get WFMJ, and if I'm real lucky WYTV too, once this puppy is on my chimney.


----------



## Inundated

In the "for what it's worth" dept.: I can't get WKBN-DT at all with the Silver Sensor, pointed out the same window that I use with the RCA indoor amplified antenna that I CAN get it with. Maybe the amplification IS needed in my case. Again, my clearance in the general direction of Youngstown is through some tall trees, so that could be a part of it...


----------



## gass




SteveC said:


> From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.
> 
> 
> That's partially true, the bigger the antenna, the longer the wave length it can recieve, which means the lower the frequency it handles. So don't make a purchase based on size, it may be the worst thing you can do. OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gass* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.




That's not true. It IS true that most major markets started out with VHF stations and most of those stations had to use UHF for digital. Frequency and HD/SD have nothing in common. You've got WKYC Ch 3 analog/CH2 digital, and WFMJ CH21 analog/CH20 digital.


BTW, I had a tour of the WKYC broadcast facility on Lakeside Drive last evening courtesy of the Cleveland chapter of the SBE. Very interesting, very nice, and very high tech.


----------



## k2rj




gass said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.
> 
> 
> That's partially true, the bigger the antenna, the longer the wave length it can recieve, which means the lower the frequency it handles. So don't make a purchase based on size, it may be the worst thing you can do. OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is only partially true. The gain and directivity of an antenna is dictated by the number of elements. So the longer the boom length, the more directional the antenna. The element size is what is related to the wavelength. A half-wavelength at channel 2 (WKYC-DT's actual channel) is 2.63 meters or approximately 8 feet. At the higher UHF channels, this decreases to less than 1 foot.
Click to expand...


----------



## Inundated

For what it's worth dept.: I can't get WKBN-DT tonight, even with the usual antenna position. I suspect the tall trees behind my house have something to do with that - with a heavy cover of leaves now fully in place.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For what it's worth dept.: I can't get WKBN-DT tonight, even with the usual antenna position. I suspect the tall trees behind my house have something to do with that - with a heavy cover of leaves now fully in place.



I decided to check out the indoor antenna reception last night. Back in the winter, I was able to pull in WFMJ-DT pretty easily with the antenna sitting on a table by a north-facing window, pointed east-northeast across an open field. Last night, I had trouble pulling them in until I elevated the antenna about 2 feet. Now that we are in the month of June, there is a row of trees in full foliage across the field. Funny thing is, I was having a bit more trouble locking onto WKBN-DT from this position, despite their greater signal strength. With my 30-foot high outdoor antenna, the opposite is true - WKBN-DT is an easy catch but WFMJ-DT is a bit more difficult, which would seem more logical given their relative signal strengths. Perhaps the indoor antenna reception difference is due to a difference in transmitter heights - I'll have to check that.


It just goes to show that antenna reception can vary based on height, season, placement, or the phases of the moon!


----------



## Michael P 2341




gass said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.
> 
> 
> That's partially true, the bigger the antenna, the longer the wave length it can recieve, which means the lower the frequency it handles. So don't make a purchase based on size, it may be the worst thing you can do. OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on what you mean by "bigger". In SteveC's original post I belileve he was referring to the number of elements - the more elements the more directional. The elements can be 8' long for ch 2 or less than an inch long for UHF, in either case the more "director elements" you have the more directional the antenna will be.
> 
> 
> That is why the 2-bay, 4-bay and 8-bay "bow tie" UHF antennas are bidirectional, while the "Yagi" style are very directional.
Click to expand...


----------



## pbarach

I can't get closed captions through the HDMI connection from my Adelphia SA8300HD box to my HDTV, but my TV displays them just fine when I use the 8300's component video connections. Is there some setting to change that would allow the captions to show up via the HDMI connection, or does Adelphia simply not pass them through the HDMI?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't get closed captions through the HDMI connection from my Adelphia SA8300HD box to my HDTV, but my TV displays them just fine when I use the 8300's component video connections. Is there some setting to change that would allow the captions to show up via the HDMI connection, or does Adelphia simply not pass them through the HDMI?



I never use the CC but I attempted to. I couldn't get it to work on my set, but I didn't investigate it too much. There were a lot of options in the settings. I also took a look at the manual at SA's web site. Nothing there.


I would suggest posting this question here you might get a better response.


In any case it doesn't have anything to do with Adelphia (for once).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't get closed captions through the HDMI connection from my Adelphia SA8300HD box to my HDTV, but my TV displays them just fine when I use the 8300's component video connections. Is there some setting to change that would allow the captions to show up via the HDMI connection, or does Adelphia simply not pass them through the HDMI?



Are you using the CC feature of your HDTV or the SA8300HD? Answering that might help clarify your situation.


----------



## TLaz

Any information on the commencement of full power HDTV transmissions from WBNX or WVIZ?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any information on the commencement of full power HDTV transmissions from WBNX or WVIZ?



This link: http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/cw-and-wbnx.html was posted in this thread last month. It stated that WBNX was telling people it would be early 2007 before they went online. If you look further down on the page there is a now a comment that disputes this statement and says it will be still be this summer. That is also what the WBNX website still says.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you using the CC feature of your HDTV or the SA8300HD? Answering that might help clarify your situation.



The TV is set to Closed Caption Mode 1, and I have tried all of the various options for closed caption source on the SA8300HD. I can get closed captions when the SA8300 is connected to the cable box via component video, but not when I use the HDMI cable. Toshiba told me that there is no guarantee that closed caption signals will be received via HDMI, which begs the question as to whether the problem is in the 8300 or my Toshiba HDTV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The TV is set to Closed Caption Mode 1, and I have tried all of the various options for closed caption source on the SA8300HD. I can get closed captions when the SA8300 is connected to the cable box via component video, but not when I use the HDMI cable. Toshiba told me that there is no guarantee that closed caption signals will be received via HDMI, which begs the question as to whether the problem is in the 8300 or my Toshiba HDTV.



I just checked my Sony through a non hdmi connection and the closed caption is there. So it must be the HDMI connection on the SA 8300.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I know this is a real long shot, but did anyone by any chance TiVO or record the 5:00 Channel 19 news tonight (6/16/06)? I think my kids were in an early segment from Memphis Kiddie Park, but we didn't get home in time to watch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know this is a real long shot, but did anyone by any chance TiVO or record the 5:00 Channel 19 news tonight (6/16/06)? I think my kids were in an early segment from Memphis Kiddie Park, but we didn't get home in time to watch.



There is hope. Innundated LOVES WOIO 19 Action news. He just might have that for you.


----------



## flatiron

Cleveland.com (Plain Dealer) reported in their Arts and Entertainment "Breaking News" page:

http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/ent...06.html#152055 


The last line of the post discussing news rating for the various stations, in regard to WOIO's future plans, says:


"The station plans to launch a digital channel, revamp its news set and start providing news to cell phones."


Since they already have a digital channel, I read this to mean a news or possibly weather subchannel.


If true, so much for the excellent CBS HD PQ in Cleveland.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is hope. Innundated LOVES WOIO 19 Action news. He just might have that for you.



Funny you said that. I almost just PM'd him directly.










I turned it on about 5:45 and watched for about a half hour. Man, was that painful.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just checked my Sony through a non hdmi connection and the closed caption is there. So it must be the HDMI connection on the SA 8300.



Have you tried the CC options the SA8300HD offers? I know they work on the Passport software over HDMI.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you look further down on the page there is a now a comment that disputes this statement and says it will be still be this summer. That is also what the WBNX website still says.



There's a later update on this entry:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...tv-update.html 


I don't know if anyone ever "sussed out" why WBNX was apparently E-Mailing folks, telling them it would be 2007 before they got the digital signal up.


WBNX does have the digital construction permit they waited some three years to get. The WBNX website has not been updated since before the CP was granted.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, by the way, I do not have "19 Action News" on any of my DVRs. Why would I waste the bits?










Sorry 'bout that...if I had it, I'd get a copy to ya, Z. I'm not even regularly recording WJW anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, by the way, I do not have "19 Action News" on any of my DVRs. Why would I waste the bits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry 'bout that...if I had it, I'd get a copy to ya, Z. I'm not even regularly recording WJW anymore.




Heh Heh Heh.....nothing like stiring the pot a bit.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, by the way, I do not have "19 Action News" on any of my DVRs. Why would I waste the bits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry 'bout that...if I had it, I'd get a copy to ya, Z. I'm not even regularly recording WJW anymore.



Ehh, it was worth a shot. I knew it was a bit of a stretch.


Thanks, though. I really appreciate it anyway.


----------



## hookbill

Hey...let me tell you guys. Inundated loves WOIO. Watches it more frequently then he wants to admit.



I myself have had a glance or so from time to time


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey...let me tell you guys. Inundated loves WOIO. Watches it more frequently then he wants to admit.



You pot stirrer, you.










Well, I have watched it much like I'd watch a car wreck while driving past it on the highway. But I actually have steadfastly avoided it lately. I'll watch WKYC more these days, primarily because of its new HD news...and they don't pimp NBC shows as much as WJW pimps "American Idol" et al...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cleveland.com (Plain Dealer) reported in their Arts and Entertainment "Breaking News" page:
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/ent...06.html#152055
> 
> 
> The last line of the post discussing news rating for the various stations, in regard to WOIO's future plans, says:
> 
> 
> "The station plans to launch a digital channel, revamp its news set and start providing news to cell phones."
> 
> 
> Since they already have a digital channel, I read this to mean a news or possibly weather subchannel.
> 
> 
> If true, so much for the excellent CBS HD PQ in Cleveland.



It may be excellent HD, but it downconverts to SD terribly. I get "chroma pulsation" from the S-Video output of my 921. This only happens on WOIO viewed live. If I delay WOIO by as little as 3 seconds the pulsation goes away. Since I can get WKBN (which has a subchannel carrying an SD FOX station







)I find myself watching them more often than 'OIO.


As far as the subchannel vs no subchannel debate, can those of you with true HD screens really tell the difference between a station with a subchannel (WKYC, WUAB) from those without (WEWS, WJW, WOIO)?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It may be excellent HD, but it downconverts to SD terribly. I get "chroma pulsation" from the S-Video output of my 921. This only happens on WOIO viewed live. If I delay WOIO by as little as 3 seconds the pulsation goes away. Since I can get WKBN (which has a subchannel carrying an SD FOX station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )I find myself watching them more often than 'OIO.
> 
> 
> As far as the subchannel vs no subchannel debate, can those of you with true HD screens really tell the difference between a station with a subchannel (WKYC, WUAB) from those without (WEWS, WJW, WOIO)?



I was actually comparing the picture quality of the Y-town stations (WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT) last night. Both stations carry a digital subchannel. Keep in mind that these are my subjective observations.


I have been very impressed with WKBN-DT's picture quality. Watching last night during Letterman, their PQ looked every bit as good as WOIO-DT. Their FOX subchannel was not that great, though - pretty "soft" (fuzzy) picture.


When I flipped over to WFMJ-DT for Leno, I thought the picture looked a little "softer" than WKBN-DT. Looking at their WB subchannel, though, I thought it looked better than WKBN-DT's FOX subchannel.


These observations lead me to believe that perhaps WFMJ-DT is allocating more bandwidth to its WB subchannel than WKBN-DT is allocating to its FOX subchannel. From past viewing of Indians games on the WKBN-DT FOX subchannel, I would say that this certainly seems to be the case. Of course, the difference that I seemed to observe last night between Letterman and Leno could be at the network sources - or they could be in my head!










Since both station engineers monitor this board and have posted here before, I would really be interested in seeing them weigh in on this subject. What do you say, Mr. Flis and Mr. Zocolo - care to share with us how you are splitting up the bandwidth in your digital braodcasts? Enqiring minds want to know!


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

are you guys all 80 years old? you are talking about the 5pm evening news like its 24 or Lost or something.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> are you guys all 80 years old? you are talking about the 5pm evening news like its 24 or Lost or something.



Lookee here youngster, don't be makin fun of us just cause we're a bit up there in years.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... What do you say, Mr. Flis and Mr. Zocolo - care to share with us how you are splitting up the bandwidth in your digital braodcasts? Enqiring minds want to know!



WFMJ-HD:

Video=14MB

Audio=384KB


WBCB:

Video=3.75MB

Audio= 192KB


PSIP= approx 1 MB


I am hitting my head on the 19.393MB max. because you have to have about 500KB of headroom or it crashes, I use Tandberg encoders for both stations feeding a Logic Innovations mux. Both Tandbergs have the latest software that has extra processing. I actually did some comparisons through my equipment vendor in Wisconsin and they agree I look better than what they've seen and wanted a copy of my encoder settings. At this point in time I'm doing the best that technology and MPEG2 let me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> are you guys all 80 years old? you are talking about the 5pm evening news like its 24 or Lost or something.



What are you, 16? Talking about the news like only people over 80 watch it?


----------



## gnalmij

Is anyone seeing a difference in WKYCDT over-the-air in the last few days? I've been one of the few who has not had a problem with Channel 2 digital with my antenna in the attic, but, now that I want to watch the U.S. Open, my signal strength declined to the point where, at times, I lose picture completely. I first noticed yesterday but was at my dad's in Youngstown (TV21 looked good) so didn't care. I fiddled with the antenna in the attic and got signal back (the signal strength went from 55-65 to 68-72), but am afraid I'll lose it again later today. I don't think I have new tree growth in the way.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing a difference in WKYCDT over-the-air in the last few days? I've been one of the few who has not had a problem with Channel 2 digital with my antenna in the attic, but, now that I want to watch the U.S. Open, my signal strength declined to the point where, at times, I lose picture completely. I first noticed yesterday but was at my dad's in Youngstown (TV21 looked good) so didn't care. I fiddled with the antenna in the attic and got signal back (the signal strength went from 55-65 to 68-72), but am afraid I'll lose it again later today. I don't think I have new tree growth in the way.



I have noticed that my reception of WKYC-TV analog channel 3 has been LOUSY this weekend - pretty much unwatchable. Of course, I have not seen a hint of WKYC-DT digital 2 for a while. I suspect that atmospheric conditions lately are really playing havoc with low-VHF - making it worse than usual.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WFMJ-HD:
> 
> Video=14MB
> 
> Audio=384KB
> 
> 
> WBCB:
> 
> Video=3.75MB
> 
> Audio= 192KB
> 
> 
> PSIP= approx 1 MB
> 
> 
> I am hitting my head on the 19.393MB max. because you have to have about 500KB of headroom or it crashes, I use Tandberg encoders for both stations feeding a Logic Innovations mux. Both Tandbergs have the latest software that has extra processing. I actually did some comparisons through my equipment vendor in Wisconsin and they agree I look better than what they've seen and wanted a copy of my encoder settings. At this point in time I'm doing the best that technology and MPEG2 let me.



Bob,


Thanks for the response. I think you are doing a good job splitting up the bandwidth between the main channel and the subchannel. Keep it up!


----------



## snagy

I had great reception this weekend except for 5-1 WEWS, kept fading badly. Don't know why, Golf came in great, but Soccer kept searching for signal on Directv HD receiver. My line of sight is thru some trees, but since the other stations 3-1, 3-2, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1 all came in at least 80% signal strenght, i ruled out the wind factor. I live along 422 in bainbridge, which would be about 25 miles from the transmitter. Hate to rotate antenna and make the others stations worst.


----------



## hookbill

There is an interesting article about how STO is doing in todays Plain Dealer. You may have to fill out a little info when you click the link but it's not anything major.


He points out how technically STO is behind other broadcasters. He doesn't specifically mention HD.


I would like to understand why it is that when WKYC shows an HD telecast they deliver so little to the rear speakers. STO's HD telecast has higher quality Dolby sound, but both register still as "5.0."


Neither sound as good as Fox's Saturday S.D. game which broadcasts in Dolby 5.1.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is an interesting article about how STO is doing in todays Plain Dealer. You may have to fill out a little info when you click the link but it's not anything major.
> 
> 
> He points out how technically STO is behind other broadcasters. He doesn't specifically mention HD.
> 
> 
> I would like to understand why it is that when WKYC shows an HD telecast they deliver so little to the rear speakers. STO's HD telecast has higher quality Dolby sound, but both register still as "5.0."
> 
> 
> Neither sound as good as Fox's Saturday S.D. game which broadcasts in Dolby 5.1.



They use the ".1" channel for DTMF tones to cue the cable companies. Unless the crowd starts stomping at their seats, there really isn't any LFE in baseball anyway. Even on 5.1 games on ESPN, my powered subwoofer automatically shuts off until the commercials come on if it's a long 1/2 inning. I toured thier facility last week and I was impressed with how much they do have in such a short time period and starting from scratch.


----------



## KennedyJ

Wondering if anyone subscribed to Comcast is using a QAM tuner to pull in the HD locals. If so, what channel numbers do you have for CBS and ABC? I can see NBC at 82.1 and Fox at 82.2. I used to be able to see CBS and ABC at 115.1 and 115.10, but haven't been able to find them recently.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He points out how technically STO is behind other broadcasters. He doesn't specifically mention HD.



I don't understand the bitching about STO. You know what we would have for Indians baseball if FSN Ohio was doing the telecasts this year? 100% of the games in SD, and not very good SD at that. AFAIK, FSN Ohio never made any pronouncements that HD Indians games were coming in the near future. I don't have a problem with STO's graphics or production quality. Sure, I've noticed a few audio problems, but nothing that was a showstopper. In fact, I prefer *not* to have all the ridiculous sound effects Fox usually inserts into the score ticker when elements change. With STO's commitment to do 100% HD next year on home and away games, I think we're pretty damn lucky here, and way ahead of some other larger markets.


Edit: FWIW, here's an excerpt from FSN HD's current info page:
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1528357 


"How many HD games does FSN HD produce for each team?

FSN HD will typically produce at least 10 games per NBA team, 10 games per NHL team, and 17 games per Major League Baseball team."


The only market they have any significant coverage in is FSN Florida. All the other markets have very little to no HD from FSN.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't understand the bitching about STO.



I didn't think I was bitching but I'm not happy with the audio portion of STO. If that's bitching then that's ok, I complain about everything.










Really I just posted the link because I thought some others might be interested. I agree that when we had FSN and if we still had it we'd get far less HD.


Maybe it's not the quality of the picture ...... more the quality (or lack of) the play?


----------



## Ben Music

Does anyone have any update on the Time Warner takeover? I thought I read somewere that if it wasn't aproved by the end of June, it wasn't going to happen.


Ben Music


----------



## jtscherne

Actually it's the end of July, although I don't think the date is totally firm. From the articles I've read, things are moving as smoothly as can be expected, given the major issues involved.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any update on the Time Warner takeover? I thought I read somewere that if it wasn't aproved by the end of June, it wasn't going to happen.
> 
> 
> Ben Music


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't think I was bitching but I'm not happy with the audio portion of STO. If that's bitching then that's ok, I complain about everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really I just posted the link because I thought some others might be interested. I agree that when we had FSN and if we still had it we'd get far less HD.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's not the quality of the picture ...... more the quality (or lack of) the play?










Sorry ... I was referring to the PD writer as the "bitcher", and also the whiners I've heard call into that WKNR/FSN "Rants" postgame show complaining about how "terrible", "unprofessional' and "unwatchable" STO is.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry ... I was referring to the PD writer as the "bitcher", and also the whiners I've heard call into that WKNR/FSN "Rants" postgame show complaining about how "terrible", "unprofessional' and "unwatchable" STO is.



Those tools can rant all they want, it won't bring the Indians games back to FSN.


WKNR & FSN make a nice couple - two has-beens (or is it a wanna be and a has been?)










They should just shut down FSN Ohio - North and give us the feed that carries the FSNO Cincinnatti Reds games. Back in IIRC '99 the feed I got over Dish network carried some Reds games in addition to all the Indians that FSN had that year. As a mater of fact the Reds games I saw were from a UPN affilliate! This was on E* chan 425.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't understand the bitching about STO. You know what we would have for Indians baseball if FSN Ohio was doing the telecasts this year? 100% of the games in SD, and not very good SD at that. AFAIK, FSN Ohio never made any pronouncements that HD Indians games were coming in the near future. I don't have a problem with STO's graphics or production quality. Sure, I've noticed a few audio problems, but nothing that was a showstopper. In fact, I prefer *not* to have all the ridiculous sound effects Fox usually inserts into the score ticker when elements change. With STO's commitment to do 100% HD next year on home and away games, I think we're pretty damn lucky here, and way ahead of some other larger markets.
> 
> 
> Edit: FWIW, here's an excerpt from FSN HD's current info page:
> http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1528357
> 
> 
> "How many HD games does FSN HD produce for each team?
> 
> FSN HD will typically produce at least 10 games per NBA team, 10 games per NHL team, and 17 games per Major League Baseball team."
> 
> 
> The only market they have any significant coverage in is FSN Florida. All the other markets have very little to no HD from FSN.



I agree....remember how FSN Ohio back peddled after losing Indians and started doing select HD Cavs games!


I don't know the Plain Dealer writer's issues with STO, and he didn't go into many details. Most of his technical critiques were transmission related, which I think they've fixed.


I'm interested in knowing what technical things the STO GM has in store. I thought they were maxed out as is.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They should just shut down FSN Ohio - North and give us the feed that carries the FSNO Cincinnatti Reds games. Back in IIRC '99 the feed I got over Dish network carried some Reds games in addition to all the Indians that FSN had that year. As a mater of fact the Reds games I saw were from a UPN affilliate! This was on E* chan 425.



A couple of times I've noticed on the Adelphia integrated program guide that they have Cincinnati on FSN, but I never tuned to it because it's an analog broadcast and since I have MLB I can get a digital signal for those games. Doesn't always mean a better picture but it definitely lets my sound system do it's Dolby trick thing better.










I tuned to FSN yesterday as it was listed as the Reds but there was something else, old boxing or something.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had great reception this weekend except for 5-1 WEWS, kept fading badly. Don't know why, Golf came in great, but Soccer kept searching for signal on Directv HD receiver. My line of sight is thru some trees, but since the other stations 3-1, 3-2, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1 all came in at least 80% signal strenght, i ruled out the wind factor. I live along 422 in bainbridge, which would be about 25 miles from the transmitter. Hate to rotate antenna and make the others stations worst.



snagy - I'm about 10 miles SW of the antenna farm and had the same issue. 5-1 is like that every couple of weeks for me and fluctuates between 80%+ and


----------



## Inundated

FSN Ohio can't carry the Reds up here, even if they wanted to. We're not in the team's territory.


Columbus gets the FSN Ohio/Cincinnati based feed with the Reds.


As far as the PD column goes, it was written by Roger Brown. His stuff is usually not worth the newsprint and ink it takes to print it! STO did have some well-publicized problems early on, but it's mostly been solid the past month and change.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, and I briefly got WKBN-DT tonight with my indoor antenna pointing nearly DUE east, as opposed to approximately ESE as normal.


Then...it went away.


Then, I picked up the antenna and lifted it above the window ledge, and out from the window, and got it again at a specific position. A position I'd have to bring a ladder downstairs to place the antenna there.










I presume tonight's weather was responsible for all of the above...though it was within the past hour, after all of the thunderstorms had died down/moved away from the area.


----------



## atperson100

Is it unusual to not get any signal at all on WKYC-DT2, but be able to get WEWS-DT, WJW-DT, WOIO-DT, WUAB-DT without any issues? WKYC-TV3 comes in, but has a lot of snow. WEWS-TV5 and WJW-TV8 also do, but not as badly.


I have an attic install near Westlake. I tried a pair of bunny ears.. Then tried a Radioshack VHF/UHF outdoor antenna. No signal at all on either one even though everything else comes in. I tried using a vhf/uhf preamplifier too (which just makes the other signals higher). Antennaweb says the towers are about 7 miles away.


----------



## Commodore 64

I get WKYC-DT2 with no problems and I am ~27 miles from the source. I use an outdoor antenna though. I never pick up anything on WKYC-DT3.


WKYC is a VHF channel, and the others are UHF...perhaps that is the reason you get some and not others? I use an omnidirection UHF flyswatter combined with a direction VHF antenna (just for WKYC) without much trouble, although during the stomrs yesterday WKYC-DT2 was pretty flakey.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, and I briefly got WKBN-DT tonight with my indoor antenna pointing nearly DUE east, as opposed to approximately ESE as normal.
> 
> 
> Then...it went away.
> 
> 
> Then, I picked up the antenna and lifted it above the window ledge, and out from the window, and got it again at a specific position. A position I'd have to bring a ladder downstairs to place the antenna there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I presume tonight's weather was responsible for all of the above...though it was within the past hour, after all of the thunderstorms had died down/moved away from the area.



The weather definitly had some influence on the OTA situation last night. I was able to get a lock on WYTV-DT, the weakest of the Youngstown stations. WFMJ-TV 21 (analog) came in perfectly, however I still could not lock onto their digital signal. WKBN/WYFX was a solid 116 (on the E* scale) the highest I ever got WKBN-DT.


As for why the storm was over here when the OTA activity picked up:the storms moved east. the clouds were over Youngstown, bending the signal towards us.


----------



## atperson100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Commodore 64* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC is a VHF channel, and the others are UHF...perhaps that is the reason you get some and not others?



Strange I get WOIO-DT10, though, with a pretty good signal strength since that's a VHF channel (although high).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As for why the storm was over here when the OTA activity picked up:the storms moved east. the clouds were over Youngstown, bending the signal towards us.



By the time I was picking up WKBN-DT in my proverbial teeth, the worst of the weather had even exited Youngstown...so perhaps just the trailing clouds were indeed responsible.


It's very much unpredictable for us out here on the edge of the signal!


----------



## wd8kct

good band opening last night and this morning...

seeing Pittsburgh DTs and a DT from Columbus (4)...

this morning analogs from Erie (12,24,66?)...

all from inside antennas...


Ed...


----------



## gzath

 http://www.cleveland.com/osu/plainde...020.xml&coll=2 


There is already a deal in place with DirecTV. No mention of HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> good band opening last night and this morning...
> 
> seeing Pittsburgh DTs and a DT from Columbus (4)...
> 
> this morning analogs from Erie (12,24,66?)...
> 
> all from inside antennas...
> 
> 
> Ed...



Yep, Erie has analogs on 12,24 & 66. They also have one on 54 and 35. Since we have an LPTV station on 35 now here in Cleveland, every time the skip is up the two stations battle it out


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/osu/plainde...020.xml&coll=2
> 
> 
> There is already a deal in place with DirecTV. No mention of HD.



I seriously doubt HD is in the works. It's probably going to fall under the realm of the FSN people where HD is spotty at best. Plus, factor in that it's bandwidth stretched out to the max DirecTV and not a terrestrial cable operator.


Also, ESPN/ABC are still contracted to do a lot of the big draw marquee Big Ten football and basketball games. So expect to see at least the ESPN in HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt HD is in the works. It's probably going to fall under the realm of the FSN people where HD is spotty at best. Plus, factor in that it's bandwidth stretched out to the max DirecTV and not a terrestrial cable operator.



There is a mention of HD, albeit a small and non-committal one:

http://bigten.cstv.com/genrel/062106aad.html 



> Quote:
> Many events will be produced in High-Definition television (HDTV).


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is a mention of HD, albeit a small and non-committal one:
> 
> http://bigten.cstv.com/genrel/062106aad.html




Good catch!


----------



## Tom in OH

Is anyone having trouble receiving the o&o HD channels from DirecTv (80 & 88)? (CBS&Fox) Also is anyone planning to receive Cleveland locals in HD from Directv in mpeg4?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also is anyone planning to receive Cleveland locals in HD from Directv in mpeg4?



I have the D* H20 receiver and AT9 dish. I can confirm that they lit up the HD locals today. To see them you have to go to the SD version of the channel and then channel up one time. It's been a long time coming. I am so happy as I have had issues pulling in channels 3 and 19 OTA.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the D* H20 receiver and AT9 dish. I can confirm that they lit up the HD locals today. To see them you have to go to the SD version of the channel and then channel up one time. It's been a long time coming. I am so happy as I have had issues pulling in channels 3 and 19 OTA.



Thx Kennedy,

I thought the launch date for HD Locals was in June sometime. Now I'm really suspicious this is why I've lost channels 80 & 88.


Is anyone still receiving 80 & 88 from Directv?


thx, Tom


----------



## jtscherne

It's a couple paragraphs down.

Scripps Networks Launches Food Network HD 


The article mentions an unnamed satellite company, which is rumored to be Dish, since they already offer HGTV HD.


----------



## hookbill

I just did a google on TW/Adelphia and the first link took me to the FCC page. Some leagal mumbo jumbo there from Echo Star that quite honestly I didn't understand but it seemed to be the latest document submitted on the matter.


I know 7/31/06 is suppose to be the end date. Anybody else heard anything new? Adelphia is dragging their heals a bit now in offering any new hd programing or any upgrades for the SA 8300. It's understandable, just wish they'd move forward.


----------



## jtscherne

It was in this morning's business page in the PD. The bankruptcy judge has approved the sale. There are still some more steps, but it's on schedule.


Here's the Ohio Media Watch link from yesterday:
http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...-approved.html


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone having trouble receiving the o&o HD channels from DirecTv (80 & 88)? (CBS&Fox) Also is anyone planning to receive Cleveland locals in HD from Directv in mpeg4?



If you live in the Cleveland DMA you are not elligible for CBS, since WOIO is not an O&O station (WJW is O&O for FOX).


----------



## stuart628

its a non issue at this point anyways as the cleveland locals are on so you wont get O& O anymore.


----------



## tjhooker74

Is anyone having a problem getting Channel 19 (CBS) in HD on D* for the new Cleveland HD channels? I am getting 3,5,8 in HD but not 19....


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjhooker74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone having a problem getting Channel 19 (CBS) in HD on D* for the new Cleveland HD channels? I am getting 3,5,8 in HD but not 19....



It's not available yet for some reason... Here's the link:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/...67&newsLang=en


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjhooker74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone having a problem getting Channel 19 (CBS) in HD on D* for the new Cleveland HD channels? I am getting 3,5,8 in HD but not 19....



Just a wild hunch but maybe D* is trying to make a HD deal for My Network in the same negotiation with Channel 19 since 19 and 43 are sister Raycom stations.


----------



## Michael P 2341

For those of you who have been getting your HD OTA and now get them via D*, can you see a difference between OTA and D* HDLIL?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you who have been getting your HD OTA and now get them via D*, can you see a difference between OTA and D* HDLIL?



I did a quick comparison this AM on FOX news and ABCs Good Morning America and could not tell a difference between the two. I'll do a more in depth comparison tonight (not sure what's on). From what I understand about D* HD "Lite" however is that FOX and ABC (being 720p) are offered in their native format. It is the NBC and CBS 1080i broadcasts that are down converted to 1280x1080. I'm anxious for primetime!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From what I understand about D* HD "Lite" however is that FOX and ABC (being 720p) are offered in their native format. It is the NBC and CBS 1080i broadcasts that are down converted to 1280x1080. I'm anxious for primetime!



You can check it out with WKYC's new HD news broadcasts, as soon as 6 PM tonight...


Oh, and even whenever 19 comes to terms with D*, don't hold your breath for 43. At least at the beginning, they're only offering the "Big Four" networks on LIL.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> its a non issue at this point anyways as the cleveland locals are on so you wont get O& O anymore.



It's still an issue because there's no way to record the Cleveland locals in HD with the new mpeg4 system. They haven't come out with their new HD DVR mpeg4 yet. Most people will not upgrade to the mpeg4 system until they can record HD.


Were your DNS HD channels shut off as well?


thx, Tom


----------



## hookbill




KennedyJ It is the NBC and CBS 1080i broadcasts that are down converted to 1280x1080. I'm anxious for primetime![/QUOTE said:


> FWIW I took a look at the DTV web site today. No mention of local HD channels, but obviously they exist.
> 
> 
> Now about the above statement. I've never heard of 1280x1080. What exactly does that mean and how is it a "down covert?" Not saying your wrong, I truly don't understand. Kindly educate me.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've never heard of 1280x1080. What exactly does that mean and how is it a "down covert?" Not saying your wrong, I truly don't understand. Kindly educate me.



Here's a web site that is dedicated to this very topic:

http://www.stophdlite.com/ 


I hope it helps!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a web site that is dedicated to this very topic:
> 
> http://www.stophdlite.com/
> 
> 
> I hope it helps!



Thanks, that was very helpful. I'll definitely stick with cable for now.


I am looking at Dish, I might go that direction.


----------



## KennedyJ

Here are my first impressions of the D* HDLiL picture quality


There was no noticeable difference in picture quality between my OTA feeds of FOX and ABC broadcasts and the D* broadcasts last night. However, the D* FOX feed was unwatchable due to audio sync issues. Hopefully they'll clean that up right away. I would have to lean in the favor of the OTA broadcast of NBC. At times the D* feed appeared soft. To be honest, it was a close call. And I am not viewing the picture at true 1920x1080/i, so there could be a more pronounced distinction between the two on a higher end HDTV (my set is 1366x768/p). I am happy to finally have the feeds though. I wonder how long it will take to come to terms with WOIO???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here are my first impressions of the D* HDLiL picture quality
> 
> 
> I am happy to finally have the feeds though. I wonder how long it will take to come to terms with WOIO???



Don't hold your breath. WOIO has a history of wanting more money then anyone else. It took Adelphia a long time to get them to give an HD feed, and by their own admission when it comes to Dolby 5.1, well, if you pay for it they will provide it.


----------



## kosar1985

does NBC still glitch with the D*feed?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> does NBC still glitch with the D*feed?



I watched the entire 11:00 news broadcast and part of whatever was on beforehand and didn't notice any problem with the picture in terms of pixelation.


----------



## kosar1985

thats good to hear because I am getting mine on Friday. It sucks that I have to pay an extra $5.00 a month to keep my H10-250 active, so I can record on it. Has anyone tried to get them to waive that cost? They should waive it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thats good to hear because I am getting mine on Friday. It sucks that I have to pay an extra $5.00 a month to keep my H10-250 active, so I can record on it. Has anyone tried to get them to waive that cost? They should waive it.




Interesting. Cable just started charging us a 5.00 "service charge" for using our DVR's (Adelphia).


Sometimes I think their all in cahoots with each other.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's still an issue because there's no way to record the Cleveland locals in HD with the new mpeg4 system. They haven't come out with their new HD DVR mpeg4 yet. Most people will not upgrade to the mpeg4 system until they can record HD.
> 
> 
> Were your DNS HD channels shut off as well?
> 
> 
> thx, Tom



The new Dish Network 622 is an MPEG4 DVR that can record HD OTA.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting. Cable just started charging us a 5.00 "service charge" for using our DVR's (Adelphia).
> 
> 
> Sometimes I think their all in cahoots with each other.



That's it...the 8000HD goes back to Adelphia on Monday and I'm cancelling the HDTV Tier.


If I really want to record anything in HD (network-OTA wise), I can do it on my Fusion box downstairs, for free. Most of my watching is done down here now, anyway.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's still an issue because there's no way to record the Cleveland locals in HD with the new mpeg4 system. They haven't come out with their new HD DVR mpeg4 yet. Most people will not upgrade to the mpeg4 system until they can record HD.
> 
> 
> Were your DNS HD channels shut off as well?
> 
> 
> thx, Tom



Never thought of it that way, thank you for pointing that out! and right now I just signed up with directv, install is tommorow, so I dont know if I will have it or not ( I am going to say no)


----------



## Ognir

Is there a way, other than punching each number in to find what chanels have the signals?


Anyone else from the Massillon Ohio area have the answer?


----------



## kosar1985

I just got me H20 yesterday. I was told anytime between 1-5, the guy shows up at around 5:45. He did not leave until about 9:15.


----------



## CPanther95

Post #5715 merged in.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CPanther95* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Post #5715 merged in.



What does that mean?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What does that mean?



I think it means that a moderator placed a post that was put somewhere else into this thread instead. Look for post #5715 from Ognir above.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it means that a moderator placed a post that was put somewhere else into this thread instead. Look for post #5715 from Ognir above.



I bet you are right.

Now thinking back I did try to open it as a new topic as I really didn't think if fit into the Cleveland Ohio group. It is 60 miles away so guess they figured it would.


----------



## stuart628

sorry if this was earlier, I have MISSED ALOT of conversation as my auto email was working to tell me there was new posts, anywho Directv is rumored to be uplinking STO and FOX sports OHio HD before the End of the month (for STO) and end of the year (FOX sports ohio) we will see if this holds true!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I bet you are right.
> 
> Now thinking back I did try to open it as a new topic as I really didn't think if fit into the Cleveland Ohio group. It is 60 miles away so guess they figured it would.



Massillon is firmly within the Cleveland/Akron (Canton) TV market as defined by Nielsen. If your local TV stations are the ones out of Cleveland, you're basically in the market.


I wish I could help you, but I don't know much about Massillon Cable - except that it is the sister service of Wooster's Clear Picture.


As far as STO/FSN Ohio in HD on DirecTV's HD LIL - we won't know until tomorrow night, as that's the first STO HD game since the supposed start of the uplinking, July 1st. Can some of the folks here with the DirecTV HD LIL package check for us tomorrow?


----------



## paule123

FoodTV-HD is up and running on Wide Open West channel 217. PQ is excellent. No guide data yet. It will be interesting to see Giada in all her HD glory.


----------



## Felony44

any one else notice that wkyc seems to be in slow motion. Whats with that ?as usual DTV screws up again!


----------



## Inundated

I'm not seeing any such problems on WKYC-DT - via Adelphia cable, QAM tuner.


When you say "DTV screws up again", are you watching via their new HDTV LIL service? I've seen others talk about some audio sync problems and other minor glitches. I'm sure they'll figure it out soon.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing any such problems on WKYC-DT - via Adelphia cable, QAM tuner.
> 
> 
> When you say "DTV screws up again", are you watching via their new HDTV LIL service? I've seen others talk about some audio sync problems and other minor glitches. I'm sure they'll figure it out soon.



I noticed the audio sync problem today on WKYC


----------



## fearthemullett

Tomorrow (7/3) IS NOT an STO game - is it on WKYC-3. Tuesday is the next STO game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fearthemullett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tomorrow (7/3) IS NOT an STO game - is it on WKYC-3. Tuesday is the next STO game.



Oh, that'd explain that!












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed the audio sync problem today on WKYC



I didn't, and I checked in for about 15 minutes in the 7 PM hour.


What are you using to receive WKYC-DT? (And anyone, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give that information when you report problems with an OTA channel! There are now three different ways to receive WKYC-DT - OTA, cable and now DirecTV HD LIL, and any number of cable systems...)


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, that'd explain that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't, and I checked in for about 15 minutes in the 7 PM hour.
> 
> 
> What are you using to receive WKYC-DT? (And anyone, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give that information when you report problems with an OTA channel! There are now three different ways to receive WKYC-DT - OTA, cable and now DirecTV HD LIL, and any number of cable systems...)




I am new at this so please bare with me

The time I was watching WKYC DT was this morning between 8:30 and 10:30am

It was on Massillon Cable with a Sony BRAVIA KDL-V32XBR1 Wega

No cable box etc.

I am getting the WKYC DT signal at

3.1 and 80.1


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am new at this so please bare with me
> 
> The time I was watching WKYC DT was this morning between 8:30 and 10:30am
> 
> It was on Massillon Cable with a Sony BRAVIA KDL-V32XBR1 Wega
> 
> No cable box etc.
> 
> I am getting the WKYC DT signal at
> 
> 3.1 and 80.1



OK, so you're watching via QAM.


I wasn't watching this morning, so I can't tell you if it was repeated here on my setup (Adelphia, also via QAM). I specifically asked because the DirecTV folks are new at getting HD via the satellite, and there may be glitches that we aren't seeing otherwise.


Many of the cable systems pick up the digital OTA stations over air - I know Adelphia does. I don't know how Massillon Cable picks up WKYC-DT. If there's an over-air problem, it'll likely be duplicated here on Adelphia (aside from localized reception problems, since Adelphia uses their big towers to pick up the signal)...but I don't know about your system.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I receive the Cleveland locals OTA using a E* (the abbreviation for Dish Network for anyone new to the forums) 921. I get occasional audio sync problems, most of the time on WEWS and WOIO during the news programs.


If I'm getting the sync problem OTA, it stands to reason that the same problem should exist on the digital local channels via cable or satellilte delivered ("LIL" - local into local) signals.


You would think that there would be a way for the audio data to be "locked" in the MPEG-2 data stream.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I receive the Cleveland locals OTA using a E* (the abbreviation for Dish Network for anyone new to the forums) 921. I get occasional audio sync problems, most of the time on WEWS and WOIO during the news programs.



WOIO IS a sync problem.










You may have stumbled onto something here. If you get it during news, that means the problem is somewhere in the upconversion of the SD product, since 5 and 19 don't do HD newscasts. It would not explain the earlier reported problems with WKYC, unless the newscast was national and not in HD...


----------



## paule123

I'm not getting the Indians game in HD tonight on WOW channel 221 (STOHD) - it's a black screen and "off air" in the guide data. I am getting the regular SD broadcast on channel 72 however... Anybody else getting it in HD ?


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not getting the Indians game in HD tonight on WOW channel 221 (STOHD) - it's a black screen and "off air" in the guide data. I am getting the regular SD broadcast on channel 72 however... Anybody else getting it in HD ?



I didn't know that there was a STOHD channel

I thought the HD games were the few that are on WKYC


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't know that there was a STOHD channel
> 
> I thought the HD games were the few that are on WKYC


 http://www.sportstimeohio.com/ 


Not all the cable systems pick up the HD channel. Massillon Cable doesn't. Time Warner, Adelphia, WOW and others do.


You can pull down each system at that site, to see if it has HD.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, did any of you DirecTV HD LIL folks tune to channel 96 tonight to see the Indians in HD on STO?


----------



## brh-z2

Paule123,


It was on the Adelphia HDBON Channel last night, although they didn't have it listed in the guide. The guide showed off-air.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, did any of you DirecTV HD LIL folks tune to channel 96 tonight to see the Indians in HD on STO?



It was listed in the guide but there was no picture. It might be because I'm not subscribed to the MLB package.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was listed in the guide but there was no picture. It might be because I'm not subscribed to the MLB package.




Huh? Do you get regular STO games? If so you should get the HD one's as well.


I'd make a call if that's the case. You shouldn't need MLB to get STO in HD, and if you arn't in the area that D* said they were going to broadcast STO then you wouldn't get anything MLB or not.


----------



## rlockshin

I believe that the HD was the NY broadcast, not STO

I tried to get it and was denied, also


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.sportstimeohio.com/
> 
> 
> Not all the cable systems pick up the HD channel. Massillon Cable doesn't. Time Warner, Adelphia, WOW and others do.
> 
> 
> You can pull down each system at that site, to see if it has HD.



The pull down does have Massillon Cable listed.

Unless something changed only 80 games would be in HD.

That includes every game on WKYC ( 20 )

That is according to the STO press releases.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The pull down does have Massillon Cable listed.
> 
> Unless something changed only 80 games would be in HD.
> 
> That includes every game on WKYC ( 20 )
> 
> That is according to the STO press releases.



Massillon Cable only has the SD version of STO, they don't have the HD version.


Select Wide Open West or Adelphia from the drop down box and you'll see those cable systems have two different channels for STO.


You are correct, only the home games are HD, as well as the 20 WKYC games home and away.


I beleive the current discussion is whether DirecTV started to carry STO in HD. In my D* guide I have channel 95 (usually reserved for HD special events) showing Indians/Yankees at 7pm tonight. We shall see in about 50 minutes










Edit: It's game time, and D* has the special HD events channel 95, ESPN-HD, and ESPN (SD) blacked out (not available in your area). So as far as D* is concerned for Cleveland customers, the game is only on STO (SD) channel 657 tonight. *sigh*


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Edit: It's game time, and D* has the special HD events channel 95, ESPN-HD, and ESPN (SD) blacked out (not available in your area). So as far as D* is concerned for Cleveland customers, the game is only on STO (SD) channel 657 tonight. *sigh*



Is there anything listed on 96? Not 95, look at 96. 95 is the MLB "Extra Innings" package.


You won't get HD STO unless you have the newer MPEG4 equipment.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The pull down does have Massillon Cable listed.
> 
> Unless something changed only 80 games would be in HD.
> 
> That includes every game on WKYC ( 20 )
> 
> That is according to the STO press releases.



Massillon Cable does not carry the HD feed from STO. Period.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that the HD was the NY broadcast, not STO
> 
> I tried to get it and was denied, also



Sigh, let's try this again.


STO would only be in HD (if it's up) on channel 96 (NOT 95!). No MLB EI subscription should be needed.


It would only show up if you have the newer MPEG4 HD equipment, the same equipment that now feeds HD LIL (local-into-local) channels like 3, 5 and 8 (19 whenever they get off their butts and agree to it).


If you don't have the new equipment and don't get 3/5/8 in HD from DirecTV's satellites, this message isn't for you...but I thought we had at least a couple of folks with the new HD stuff in here, which is why I asked.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Massillon Cable does not carry the HD feed from STO. Period.



Ok, not the end of the world!

It is part of the basic package on Massillon Cable

so there is no additional cost . I can live watching my 20 games.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, not the end of the world!
> 
> It is part of the basic package on Massillon Cable
> 
> so there is no additional cost . I can live watching my 20 games.



Here on Adelphia, the HD games are no additional cost as well. They're in the same tier as the over-air stations. And if you have a QAM tuner like I do, you can even pick them up without a converter box!


----------



## gass




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that the HD was the NY broadcast, not STO
> 
> I tried to get it and was denied, also



Same here, "channel not available" but the guide says its there.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there anything listed on 96? Not 95, look at 96. 95 is the MLB "Extra Innings" package.
> 
> 
> You won't get HD STO unless you have the newer MPEG4 equipment.



I don't have the new equipment, and don't have a channel 96 in my guide. I thought I'd give it a try since everything in the 90's on D* has traditionally been the old MPEG2 format. I thought they might make up a new range of channel numbers for MPEG4 stuff but maybe not...


----------



## Felony44

I asked this earlier in the week so here it goes again i have DTV HD with the locals in HD i had the WJW audio problem not sure if thats gone. But the problem i have had since day one is WKYC HD and now STO HD channel 96 seems like its in slow motion is anyone else having that problem with either channel?? i have the H20 and the 5 lnb dish


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't have the new equipment, and don't have a channel 96 in my guide. I thought I'd give it a try since everything in the 90's on D* has traditionally been the old MPEG2 format. I thought they might make up a new range of channel numbers for MPEG4 stuff but maybe not...



It's my understanding that 96 has been set aside for the new MPEG4 local RSNs. So, if you had that and you're in Cleveland, you'd get STO there...in Detroit, HD out of FSN Detroit, etc...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I asked this earlier in the week so here it goes again i have DTV HD with the locals in HD i had the WJW audio problem not sure if thats gone. But the problem i have had since day one is WKYC HD and now STO HD channel 96 seems like its in slow motion is anyone else having that problem with either channel?? i have the H20 and the 5 lnb dish



It does sound like they're working on some glitches in the MPEG4 HD locals.


You are getting STO, then? (Even with problems...)


Both are 1080i, if that means anything.


----------



## Felony44

Oh it looks great even for DTV but it just seems wierd its almost like you are watching a replay instead of live tv and i know its on DTVs end since WKYC does it too and STO broadcasts from WKYC guess i shouldnt complain i didnt expect STO HD for 3-5 yrs the way DTV rolls things out


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh it looks great even for DTV but it just seems wierd its almost like you are watching a replay instead of live tv and i know its on DTVs end since WKYC does it too and STO broadcasts from WKYC guess i shouldnt complain i didnt expect STO HD for 3-5 yrs the way DTV rolls things out



You really should call DirecTV and tell a CSR about the glitches. They probably still need input.


I don't think the problem has anything to do with the fact that STO uses WKYC's technical facilities, but I could be wrong. My guess is that it's some 1080i-related issue. 5 and 8 are both 720p.


----------



## thorton22

I live in Louisville (East of Canton) and am trying to pull down KDKA(ch2) out of Pittsburgh and/or WTRF(ch9) in Wheeling and am not having much luck. Is there anyone close to me that is able to pull these channels clearly?


Also, I am using a preamp that came from my old house that was installed by the cable company for cable. It definitely helps the reception but could a different preamp make more of a difference? Would I be better served with a preamp that is more designed for OTA or are they simular?


I have a good (I think) CM model 4228 8 bay UHF antenna along with a combo U/V/FM antenna. Can I mount them both and "splice" them together? Will that make for better reception?


Any advice/critism is appreciated! Thanks.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sigh, let's try this again.
> 
> 
> STO would only be in HD (if it's up) on channel 96 (NOT 95!). No MLB EI subscription should be needed.
> 
> 
> It would only show up if you have the newer MPEG4 HD equipment, the same equipment that now feeds HD LIL (local-into-local) channels like 3, 5 and 8 (19 whenever they get off their butts and agree to it).
> 
> 
> If you don't have the new equipment and don't get 3/5/8 in HD from DirecTV's satellites, this message isn't for you...but I thought we had at least a couple of folks with the new HD stuff in here, which is why I asked.



By what you are saying, I must have the 5 LNB dish?

I have the H20 receiver with 3 LNB dish.

I did not receive 95 on my Samsung 160.

Is 96 on the new satellites that requires the 5 LNB dish?

That would explain a lot.

I was told by DTV that only locals would be on the newer satellites; nothing else.

that is why I do not have the new dish.

If I am missing something, then that changes things

thanks


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Louisville (East of Canton) and am trying to pull down KDKA(ch2) out of Pittsburgh and/or WTRF(ch9) in Wheeling and am not having much luck. Is there anyone close to me that is able to pull these channels clearly?
> 
> 
> Also, I am using a preamp that came from my old house that was installed by the cable company for cable. It definitely helps the reception but could a different preamp make more of a difference? Would I be better served with a preamp that is more designed for OTA or are they simular?
> 
> 
> I have a good (I think) CM model 4228 8 bay UHF antenna along with a combo U/V/FM antenna. Can I mount them both and "splice" them together? Will that make for better reception?
> 
> 
> Any advice/critism is appreciated! Thanks.



I presume you are trying to get the digital signals from KDKA and WTRF. KDKA is digital on ch 25. If you can receive the analog WVIZ at your location forget KDKA. You may be out of luck for the analog as well, since WKYC is digital on ch 2.



If it's an alternate CBS you are looking for try WKBN-DT out of Youngstown: analog 27, digital 41. Their digital signal has a very large coverage area, Louisville is definitly inside the circle for WKBN-DT. As a bonus WKBN-DT has a subchannel carrying the SD channel WYFX-LP which is a FOX affilliate. Come football season you can get all the available OTA games off one signal!


BTW: Forget the preamp! If a cable company installed it, it may only amplify VHF and the cable band channels. Unless your cable system had 125 analog channels this preamp will not help any UHF signals, in fact it may make them worse!


The 8-bay UHF antenna is a good choice for digital reception. DO NOT ADD the "combo" antenna! Insted find a good VHF only antenna and use a VHF/UHF coupler, rather than a generic splitter. The advantage with seperate VHF & UHF antennas is you can aim the 2 antennas in different directions without needing a rotor (if all your VHF signals came from one direction) The 8-bay UHF antenna is virtually bi-directional, that is it can pick-up signals clearly from 2 directions at the same time. Aim the "back side" towards the strongest station(s) and thr front towards the weakest. That combo antenna probably is much more directional, you would need a rotor for best results.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Louisville (East of Canton) and am trying to pull down KDKA(ch2) out of Pittsburgh and/or WTRF(ch9) in Wheeling and am not having much luck. Is there anyone close to me that is able to pull these channels clearly?
> 
> 
> Also, I am using a preamp that came from my old house that was installed by the cable company for cable. It definitely helps the reception but could a different preamp make more of a difference? Would I be better served with a preamp that is more designed for OTA or are they simular?
> 
> 
> I have a good (I think) CM model 4228 8 bay UHF antenna along with a combo U/V/FM antenna. Can I mount them both and "splice" them together? Will that make for better reception?
> 
> 
> Any advice/critism is appreciated! Thanks.



I live in SW part of Canton. Using a Winegard PR-7037 VHF/UHF/FM antenna and preamplifier, rotator and a 50' tower, I can usually get KDKA (ch 2) only marginally, sometimes a little better when conditions are right. I suspect this may be at least in part due to the fact that WKYC-DT in Cleveland is also on channel 2. (KDKA probably is also responsible for some of the problems with WKYC-DT).


Reception from WTOV (ch 9) and WTOV-DT (ch 57) from Steubenville is quite good. Reception from WTRF (ch 7) in Wheeling WV is fair to good depending upon reception conditions. The WTRF-DT (ch 32) signal level is too low for a lock but this is to be expected as they are still on very low power. (They've been saying since last year that a power increase is coming "soon").


Pittsburgh stations received here most consistently are WPXI (ch 11) and WPGH (ch 53). I'm not sure why this is so. During the summer months, I also get WPXI-DT (ch 48) and WPMY-DT (ch 42) with long periods of strong reception (especially at night) and all the other Pittsburgh DT stations frequently. KDKA-DT and WPGH-DT may be the most difficult as they share their channels with Cleveland analog stations on chs 25 and 43 respectively.


I would think that a preamp designed for over-the-air use would do a better job than one intended for cable TV but I can't speak as an expert on that. A good VHF/UHF would probably be the best as Pittsburgh and Wheeling-Steubenville stations are operating in both those ranges. I think that splicing the two antennas together might be tricky to get optimum results but maybe some others in this group could speak on that.


Hope this has been of some help to you.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was told by DTV that only locals would be on the newer satellites; nothing else.
> 
> that is why I do not have the new dish.



I believe that is correct. You have the right receiver, from what I've read, but you do need the new dish to get not only the locals, but SportsTime Ohio in HD. Consider it as just another "HD local" and you'll get the picture. (Literally, if you got the new dish.







)


If you don't get 3/5/8 in HD now from DirecTV's satellites, you won't get STO.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By what you are saying, I must have the 5 LNB dish?
> 
> I have the H20 receiver with 3 LNB dish.
> 
> I did not receive 95 on my Samsung 160.
> 
> Is 96 on the new satellites that requires the 5 LNB dish?
> 
> That would explain a lot.
> 
> I was told by DTV that only locals would be on the newer satellites; nothing else.
> 
> that is why I do not have the new dish.
> 
> If I am missing something, then that change things
> 
> thanks



Yes you must have the A9 5LNB dish. With the H20 as is you will only see the current HD not the local into local (3, 5, 8, 19 claims they are negotiating and hope to have a deal by the start of the NFL season.) 96 is ONLY on found with the new dish. You should still see Channel 95 with your current setup and old boxes though but be blacked up to tonight. As far as being told that only locals and nothing else will be on the new satellites that is FALSE. D* has plans to have all future HD channels appear as MPEG4 only meaning they wont work with the older setups. That will take time though to achieve.


----------



## paule123

Looks like Food Network HD is not working on WOW tonight. Channel 217 exists in the guide, but no call letters are visible and it says "box not authorized" when I try to tune to it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like Food Network HD is not working on WOW tonight. Channel 217 exists in the guide, but no call letters are visible and it says "box not authorized" when I try to tune to it.



If Adelphia gave me The Food Network in HD I think I'd actually be p.o'd. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of getting as much HD as possible but come on, The Food Network? Do the dishes look better in HD? Watching the knife action much clearer?


Sorry, I just don't get it but to each his own.


Another totally useless HD channel that Adelphia does offer is The NFL Network, which from what I've seen has absolutely no HD programing (at least at the times I've glanced at it). That's a real shame, because there is a channel that could make some great use of HD.


But as I said, to each his own.


----------



## jtscherne

NFL Network's "Game of the Week" is in HD. In the fall, you'll see much more, especially when they start showing live games later in the season.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If Adelphia gave me The Food Network in HD I think I'd actually be p.o'd. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of getting as much HD as possible but come on, The Food Network? Do the dishes look better in HD? Watching the knife action much clearer?
> 
> 
> Sorry, I just don't get it but to each his own.
> 
> 
> Another totally useless HD channel that Adelphia does offer is The NFL Network, which from what I've seen has absolutely no HD programing (at least at the times I've glanced at it). That's a real shame, because there is a channel that could make some great use of HD.
> 
> 
> But as I said, to each his own.



I'm not watching Food-HD 24/7 myself, but posted to find out if any other WOW people are having the same problems. As of now, WOW is sending out a tech tomorrow because of my STOHD problem the other night. I'm sure it's nothing wrong on my end, but they insist on sending a tech out... Maybe I can convince the guy to give me a SA8300HD instead of this SA8000HD.


Food Network HD goes to some interesting travel destinations as well, so you get some Discovery-HD quality travel programming. And yes, the food DOES look better in 1080i!


----------



## yespage

I know it's been asked again and again. I know WVIZ was having issues. Are we now looking at Full Power transmission in Fall/Winter of 2006/2007?


I wanna get WVIZ in digital. It's the only thing I really can't get yet. Sadly, I can't get the local Akron PBS because of the direction it is broadcasted from.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NFL Network's "Game of the Week" is in HD. In the fall, you'll see much more, especially when they start showing live games later in the season.



I think I saw that they had the quiz games with the NHL stars in HD. As far as the "game of the week" I'm not interested in watching old games. So taking the whole HD productions into consideration how much HD is that on a yearly basis? I don't think it adds up to much.


I'd rather see USA, TNT, or FX in HD. I'll watch my football on the networks in the fall on Sunday, thank you.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know it's been asked again and again. I know WVIZ was having issues. Are we now looking at Full Power transmission in Fall/Winter of 2006/2007?
> 
> 
> I wanna get WVIZ in digital. It's the only thing I really can't get yet. Sadly, I can't get the local Akron PBS because of the direction it is broadcasted from.



Sadly, even if you could receive WEAO-DT (PBS) out of Akron, you wouldn't get HD PBS. They no longer transmit HDTV programming. WEAO-DT has equipment problems which prevents them from transmitting HDTV as they planned from 7pm to midnight.


Tough to receive OTA PBS HD in the Akron area, what a shame, since PBS HD shows some , what I think, is great programming.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sadly, even if you could receive WEAO-DT (PBS) out of Akron, you wouldn't get HD PBS. They no longer transmit HDTV programming. WEAO-DT has equipment problems which prevents them from transmitting HDTV as they planned from 7pm to midnight.



Oh... that's right... that was the Akron PBS station with those issues....



> Quote:
> Tough to receive OTA PBS HD in the Akron area, what a shame, since PBS HD shows some , what I think, is great programming.



I wouldn't be able to receive it in HD, but the DTV feed would be swell. So if it's the Akron station with the issues, what is holding WVIZ back or are they still on schedule. I need my Ideastream *dum dum dum*!


----------



## Inundated

Clarifications here:


* Re: WEAO - 45/49's Don Freeman posted in this very thread that they have had various equipment issues that prevent them from doing HD on WNEO-DT/WEAO-DT. They are in the process of resolving those issues and do intend to bring back PBS HD.


* WVIZ/25 reportedly had still more issues to solve beside the ones we'd heard they'd taken care of last year (in specific, the construction at the WVIZ analog site that had been held up in a legal dispute with CBS Radio, which owns and operates the site for WNCX/98.5). I don't know what those new issues are, but they were presumably were hoping to be on sometime this summer at full power...


* The NFL Game of the Week on NFL Network HD is not necessarily old games during the season. They'll run a condensed 60 minute presentation of one of the big games from the previous week. (Off-season, they'll run a number of different games.) I don't know if this changes with the actual game broadcasts being available this season, though I know they'll only do those live games the last few weeks of the season.


NFL Network HD also did a lot of pre-season HD games last year, including the Browns/Giants game that aired here only in SD on WOIO/19. The HD feed of that game, obviously, was out of the Big Apple...


----------



## rluyster

This may not be pertinent to yespage's situation...I don't know where he's located...but if you're in the Akron-Canton area, another good possibility for PBS-HD is WOUC-DT, ch 35 in Cambridge OH. They boom into Canton with a signal just as strong or stronger than PBS in Akron. PBS-HD is on 35-1 and WOUB/WOUC regular programming on 35-2. Their transmitter site is actually several miles NE of the city of Cambridge not too far from Fairview OH. That area is S-SW from the Akron-Canton general area.


----------



## Brian81

I am running basic analog cable from Adelphia (Lorain Branch) to my Samsung DLP via coax. I am able to get HD stations 3-1, 5-1, 19-1, 25-1 ?, 776, and one other which is HDBonus 796 or something like that. However, I do not get Fox HD. Just 480i DTV Fox. Any ideas? Should I be also getting "HD" stations for CBS, UPN, etc? I get digital stations but no HD ones for these..


----------



## hookbill

UPN is not available on Adelphia in HD.


I do not have a clue as to how your getting all that other stuff.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am running basic analog cable from Adelphia (Lorain Branch) to my Samsung DLP via coax. I am able to get HD stations 3-1, 5-1, 19-1, 25-1 ?, 776, and one other which is HDBonus 796 or something like that. However, I do not get Fox HD. Just 480i DTV Fox. Any ideas? Should I be also getting "HD" stations for CBS, UPN, etc? I get digital stations but no HD ones for these..



"25-1 ?" It would be hard for a Lorain cable system to receive the WVIZ HD signal since they are transmitting with only 1 kw from a very short tower (99'







)on Brookpark Road. I can just barely get it here in Parma, only around 2 miles from the transmitter! Perhaps they are giving you a "digitized" version of the analog "25-0". If the programming on your version of 25 matches the TV Guide then it's the analog feed.


WVIZ, unlike WEAO does not broadcast a digital version of the main analog channel.


As for why you cant get FOX, CBS or UPN ask your cable system. They are on the air - but want extra $$$ from the cable companies to carry the digital signals (at least I know it's true for the Raycom stations WOIO and WUAB. As for WJW that is a surprise. I believe WJW is on other cable systems)


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "25-1 ?" It would be hard for a Lorain cable system to receive the WVIZ HD signal since they are transmitting with only 1 kw from a very short tower (99'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )on Brookpark Road. I can just barely get it here in Parma, only around 2 miles from the transmitter! Perhaps they are giving you a "digitized" version of the analog "25-0". If the programming on your version of 25 matches the TV Guide then it's the analog feed.
> 
> 
> WVIZ, unlike WEAO does not broadcast a digital version of the main analog channel.
> 
> 
> As for why you cant get FOX, CBS or UPN ask your cable system. They are on the air - but want extra $$$ from the cable companies to carry the digital signals (at least I know it's true for the Raycom stations WOIO and WUAB. As for WJW that is a surprise. I believe WJW is on other cable systems)




25-1 (PBS) that I'm receiving is clearly 1080i, judging from what is listed on the TV menu screen as well as how it actually looks (16:9, PBS HD logo). Is it possible that it's analog but still 1080i? As for what you are saying in your third paragraph, perhaps that is why I can get Fox DTV 480i but not Fox HD? Sounds pretty stupid that they'd allow me to receive all those other HD stations but not Fox. I'm surprised that I'm receiving DiscoveryHD when it's listed as part of the HD-Plus Tier.


The MLB All-Star game is coming up and I want to watch it


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The MLB All-Star game is coming up and I want to watch it



hmmm, anyone know what channel that's on for D* in HD?? ^_^


----------



## Inundated

Adelphia in NE Ohio does carry WVIZ-DT's HD feed in full 1080i, and has for some time. It has nothing to do with the distance from WVIZ's temporary DT transmitter...it's picked up in downtown Cleveland and fed out via Adelphia's own systems.


It sounds like you do have a QAM tuner, or you wouldn't be getting 776 (DISC HD) and 798 (HDBON - aka the HD channel for STO and FSN Ohio).


With that, you should be getting WJW's HD feed. I don't know why it is not coming through...it rides on a channel with one or two of the other network affiliates, so if you get them, you should get WJW-DT (the HD version, not the digital simulcast of the analog signal).


Don't lose too much sleep about the All-Star Game, though...there's no indication FOX will cover it in HD. Check the "HDTV Programming" area for any thread on this. They may do it, but I haven't checked...if not, it'll be in 480p upconverted to 720p as "FOX Widescreen".


----------



## Inundated

One thought - on my Fusion QAM tuner (USB HDTV5), WJW shows up with an odd channel number - "1051" (presumably a conversion of its presence on QAM channel 105, sub 1 or 2).


All the other digital local stations, including the analog simulcasts in HD, are properly mapped to the channel number. "1051" does have the WJW HD identifier, though.


----------



## jtscherne

Every TV ad for the All Star Game states that it will be in HD (as was last year's)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every TV ad for the All Star Game states that it will be in HD (as was last year's)



Oh, that's right...they DO do the All-Star game in HD. Just none of the other games until the playoffs.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every TV ad for the All Star Game states that it will be in HD (as was last year's)



"I'm sittin' on top of the world..."









I've must have seen that promo dozens of times, even on STO!


----------



## Brian81

I will say that my tuner recognized likely hundreds of digital stations, almost all of them having black screens with no sound (yet resolution and audio for the station are listed). I can't click from channel to channel from 98 to 798...it takes forever. I did try it once and found these channels:


85-12 Japanese channel?

110-8 WJW Fox (480i)

157 Logo (480i)

181 Ohio (480i)

183 WKYC-3 (480i)

300 Bark (480i)



plus 776 as 798 as mentioned before.


I will try ch. 1051 tomorrow and see if anything shows up. It didn't program when I used "auto program".


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, that's right...they DO do the All-Star game in HD. Just none of the other games until the playoffs.



Fox network can't seem to make money off of baseball to save their lives. So, in order to save a whole bunch of money on HD transmission and trucks, they go El-Cheapo for the Saturday afternoon games. Which as we all know just look like garbage, especially when the home TV normally presents in HD, they take a game away!


----------



## Inundated

OK, here's your list:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 85-12 Japanese channel?



I'm not sure what that channel is, but I've seen it.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 110-8 WJW Fox (480i)



This is the digital simulcast of analog WJW. It's what a cable box puts out when you tune to "8". Adelphia does this "digital substitution" with all the local stations except for 23/49/55/61/67.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 157 Logo (480i)



Gay and lesbian themed digital channel. I have no idea why this is in the clear, but I get it, too.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 181 Ohio (480i)



"The Ohio Channel", statewide public affairs channel out of Columbus (state legislature, other public affairs programming). It comes into Adelphia as a subchannel of WVIZ-DT, and is on digital cable channel 181.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 183 WKYC-3 (480i)



That's WKYC's "NBC Weather Plus" feed, not the main channel. Also on digital 183. (Notice that some of these numbers are matching.







)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 300 Bark (480i)



All dogs, all the time. Woof! No, just kidding. It's the "BARKER" channel for pay per view movies (i.e. commercial previews intended to try to get you to buy PPV). I believe this is also on digital cable 300, another PSIP match.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> plus 776 as 798 as mentioned before.



Also matched to their numbers on the digital boxes, BTW.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will try ch. 1051 tomorrow and see if anything shows up. It didn't program when I used "auto program".



It would actually be cable channel 105, if you want to manually scan it. I'm not sure it's on subchannel 1 or 2, but that won't matter if you can pick it up on the scan.


As I said, I believe that Adelphia isn't properly adding PSIP information to the channel, so your tuner may be missing it...but you do get that foreign language channel, which I don't think has PSIP either.


----------



## craigv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 85-12 Japanese channel?



TVJAPAN is in the clear? That channel costs $25.00 a month. I study Japanese, i mighthave to get a QAM tuner so i could check that channel out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fox network can't seem to make money off of baseball to save their lives. So, in order to save a whole bunch of money on HD transmission and trucks, they go El-Cheapo for the Saturday afternoon games. Which as we all know just look like garbage, especially when the home TV normally presents in HD, they take a game away!



I hope when this contract is up someone else gets baseball. The only games you see outside of Chicago are Boston or New York.


I think ESPN would be good for Saturday baseball, they do a great job on the evening games. I'm not certain baseball is ready to give up the idea of OTA broadcasting, it's suppose to be the "affordable" pro sport so they want to make sure they hit low income houses.


But as I see it looking at the really dilapidated houses along I 77 the other day they all get ESPN. True, they don't have windows and bed sheets hung up but they all had satellite dishes. It's a site to see, head North from 480 and you see them on the right.


----------



## Brian81

Update: Tried 1051, 105-1, 105-2...no success.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update: Tried 1051, 105-1, 105-2...no success.



I don't know what to tell you, then.


WJW-DT sits on QAM channel 105 with WEWS-DT. If you get WEWS's HD feed, you should get WJW's. Maybe the PSIP being messed up on WJW is preventing your tuner from filing it in the channel list? Have you tried scanning again?


For that matter, I don't believe we know what tuner you have.


----------



## Brian81

It's whatever tuner is in a Samsung HL-S5088W. I tried a new scan for stations and the end result was the same.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's whatever tuner is in a Samsung HL-S5088W. I tried a new scan for stations and the end result was the same.



QAM is kinda finicky in general.


It looks like whatever Adelphia has put in the WJW-DT PSIP is incompatible with your set's tuner.


And that's about the end of this one...because unless Adelphia fixes that PSIP to look like the other channels that you DO get, you may not ever get this on your set. And most cable companies (including Adelphia) are not at all willing to help you with this... fully 90% of the CSRs don't even know what QAM tuning IS, let alone are they willing to help you with it.


The only suggestion I have at this point is to call 'em and play CSR roulette... maybe you'll get lucky. I would not be at all surprised if you get a brick wall, though.


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> QAM is kinda finicky in general.
> 
> 
> It looks like whatever Adelphia has put in the WJW-DT PSIP is incompatible with your set's tuner.
> 
> 
> And that's about the end of this one...because unless Adelphia fixes that PSIP to look like the other channels that you DO get, you may not ever get this on your set. And most cable companies (including Adelphia) are not at all willing to help you with this... fully 90% of the CSRs don't even know what QAM tuning IS, let alone are they willing to help you with it.
> 
> 
> The only suggestion I have at this point is to call 'em and play CSR roulette... maybe you'll get lucky. I would not be at all surprised if you get a brick wall, though.




If I were to get a CableCARD or STB would it likely work?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I were to get a CableCARD or STB would it likely work?



The STB, definitely. That's what they support.







If you got an HD STB or DVR, WJW-DT in HD is on channel 708. WKYC-DT is 703, WEWS-DT is 705, WOIO-DT is 704, and WVIZ-DT is 710.


I assume a cable card would work as well, or at least it's supposed to work. I have no experience with cable card w/Adelphia, though...and haven't heard of anyone here using it for HDTV.


QAM tuning is basically "unsupported" by the cable companies.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I were to get a CableCARD or STB would it likely work?



If you got a STB, guaranteed it would work because you wouldn't be using your TV's tuner anymore.


CableCard would be a good solution, if you don't order PPV and can live without the cable company on screen guide. Current cable card implementation is only one-way. CableCard *should* work, but I've read threads on AVS about compatibility issues with different models of TV, and also competence issues (or should I say lack thereof) on the cable company's part getting the CableCard to work.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Current cable card implementation is only one-way. CableCard *should* work, but I've read threads on AVS about compatibility issues with different models of TV, and also competence issues (or should I say lack thereof) on the cable company's part getting the CableCard to work.



It's almost like they want you to spend the extra bucks and rent the STB, which would be at least $3-4 more a month.


Nahhhhhhh...that couldn't be it.


----------



## Brian81

As far as CableCard vs STB, with CableCard I wouldn't be able to do PPV (which I never do anyways) but I also would not be able to use VOD. Is there a difference between "On Demand" and "In Demand"? I plan to get the HD Plus Tier at some point, just not now, and it has two stations which are "In Demand HD" 1 and 2. If CableCard won't get these two HD stations, the entire package would only give me 5 more stations (NFL HD, HDNET, HDNET Movies, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD).


I have TVGOS so if that works properly, the Adelphia interactive programming guide wouldn't be much of a concern to me.


What I find strange is that on the Adelphia channel listing online, the local HD stations are 703-710 and listed as "Broadcast HD", and I get nothing there. Meanwhile I can tune into 776 and 798 fine. 798 is also listed as "Broadcast HD" for them like the locals, but 776 is listed as a premium station and part of the HD Plus Tier. I'm guessing they have this channel screwed up and I shouldn't really be receiving DiscoveryHD at all.


Of course, I can access the locals at 3-1, 5-1, 19-1, 25-1 though...except FOX.


----------



## jtscherne

 http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/cab..._id=1002801330


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hmmm, anyone know what channel that's on for D* in HD?? ^_^



Either 8-1 over OTA or Channel 88 from FoxNY since Fox8 is O&O. That is unless you have the MPEG4 equipment already in that case its on Channel 8.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as CableCard vs STB, with CableCard I wouldn't be able to do PPV (which I never do anyways) but I also would not be able to use VOD. Is there a difference between "On Demand" and "In Demand"? I plan to get the HD Plus Tier at some point, just not now, and it has two stations which are "In Demand HD" 1 and 2. If CableCard won't get these two HD stations, the entire package would only give me 5 more stations (NFL HD, HDNET, HDNET Movies, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD).
> 
> 
> I have TVGOS so if that works properly, the Adelphia interactive programming guide wouldn't be much of a concern to me.



From what you're saying, I would give the CableCard a try, with the understanding that you won't be able to order PPV movies through the remote.


InDemand aka "INHD" is similar to HDNet, just another regular HD channel. With a CableCard you should be able to receive it just fine along with the rest of the HD Plus tier.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I finally put up an outdoor antenna aimed at Youngstown. Previously I used a Silver Sensor indoor antenna and got WKBN-DT usually at night only.


My new antenna is a Radio Shack U-75R. I'm getting an average of 103 for WKBN-DT on the signal meter on my E* 921. Previously I was lucky to break a 70, and I experienced many break-ups. Now my reception is solid 24/7.


The U-75R is extremely directional, so much so that it picks up very little from the back end. I had though it would pick up WJW-DT 31 since their tower is almost a perfect 180 degrees from WKBN. Insted I don't get a lockable signal on WJW and I'm only.8 of a mile from their tower (that's no typo folks, I mean eight tenths of a mile).


Ironically it does pick up WOIO-DT 10 at almost 90 degrees off axis (actually I think it's becuse UHF-only antennas can pick-up the VHF high signals but less directional)

None of the other Cleveland stations will lock, however (and they all are almost as close as WJW).


I only wish I could get a lock on WFMJ-DT. I see a signal on the meter, but it still is not quite enough to lock. Arn't they and WYTV due for a power increase soon?


I'm all set for football season now!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I find strange is that on the Adelphia channel listing online, the local HD stations are 703-710 and listed as "Broadcast HD", and I get nothing there. Meanwhile I can tune into 776 and 798 fine. 798 is also listed as "Broadcast HD" for them like the locals, but 776 is listed as a premium station and part of the HD Plus Tier. I'm guessing they have this channel screwed up and I shouldn't really be receiving DiscoveryHD at all.



On my lineup online, it says this:



> Quote:
> 776
> 
> DISC HD Discovery HD Broadcast HD (High Definition)



I don't know if this varies by the different pieces of Adelphia, or what, if any changes Time Warner's presence will make. (It'll probably be a few months after the merger before they even start thinking of shuffling things around.)


And the reason you get the locals as 3-1, etc., is because of the PSIP...as mentioned, WJW-DT's PSIP data is not the same.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I find strange is that on the Adelphia channel listing online, the local HD stations are 703-710 and listed as "Broadcast HD", and I get nothing there. Meanwhile I can tune into 776 and 798 fine. 798 is also listed as "Broadcast HD" for them like the locals, but 776 is listed as a premium station and part of the HD Plus Tier. I'm guessing they have this channel screwed up and I shouldn't really be receiving DiscoveryHD at all.
> 
> 
> Of course, I can access the locals at 3-1, 5-1, 19-1, 25-1 though...except FOX.



I have Adelphia also (near the Cleveland Heights office) and I am unable to get 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 through QAM in HD. The two channels I can receive in HD through QAM are the same ones others are reporting: 776 (Discovery HD) and 798 (Adelphia's bonus channel for Tribe/Cavs). I think Adelphia moved 776 (Discovery HD) into the "Broadcast HD tier" a while ago. I can also get some of the digital channels that other's have reported "free and clear" including 157, 183, etc. But just can't seem to find 3-5-8-etc.


One suggestion I received earlier is to run the cable directly into the TV (right now I had it split--one to the box, the other to the TV.) Unfortunately that didn't work. I just can't seem to find the HD locals. Which is disappointing because I had considered getting a smaller LCD HDTV for the bedroom, and was hoping to use it without the cable box.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there a difference between "On Demand" and "In Demand"? I plan to get the HD Plus Tier at some point, just not now, and it has two stations which are "In Demand HD" 1 and 2. If CableCard won't get these two HD stations, the entire package would only give me 5 more stations (NFL HD, HDNET, HDNET Movies, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD).



Brian81: I think you may be confusing "InDemand" the pay-per-view company with InHD and InHD2, which are two of the channels in the HD tier on Adelphia. They are not PPV or "on-demand" channels, they are merely two additional HD networks. You can check out the programming at inhd.com.


(NOTE: After I posted this I saw on Adelphia's website the two channels are listed as "inDemand HD". They are mislabeled there...hence the confusion!)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Brian81: I think you may be confusing "InDemand" the pay-per-view company with InHD and InHD2, which are two of the channels in the HD tier on Adelphia. They are not PPV or "on-demand" channels, they are merely two additional HD networks. You can check out the programming at inhd.com.
> 
> 
> (NOTE: After I posted this I saw on Adelphia's website the two channels are listed as "inDemand HD". They are mislabeled there...hence the confusion!)



But isn't that Adelphia at it's best?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Brian81: I think you may be confusing "InDemand" the pay-per-view company with InHD and InHD2, which are two of the channels in the HD tier on Adelphia. They are not PPV or "on-demand" channels, they are merely two additional HD networks. You can check out the programming at inhd.com.
> 
> 
> (NOTE: After I posted this I saw on Adelphia's website the two channels are listed as "inDemand HD". They are mislabeled there...hence the confusion!)



No confusion or mislabeling there. INHD and INHD2 are both networks provided by iN DEMAND Networks. You are correct that they are not "on-demand" nor PPV channels like most of the rest of iN DEMAND's networks.

About INHD


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope when this contract is up someone else gets baseball. The only games you see outside of Chicago are Boston or New York.



No such luck. Fox just re-upped for seven more years.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13819843/


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No confusion or mislabeling there. INHD and INHD2 are both networks provided by iN DEMAND Networks. You are correct that they are not "on-demand" nor PPV channels like most of the rest of iN DEMAND's networks.
> 
> About INHD




Thanks to all who have clarified the INHD confusion for me.


----------



## stuart628

okay everyone I need help here







I just got my HR10-250 up and running, everything is great and looks great! except I cant get cbs, I get all other stations, all at about 70-75, I currently have a radio shack 80 mile anntena with one Rg6 run from my attic to my basement, up the wall to my living room, like I said all one run, no breaks.....now here is my question, should I add a amp to my setup to maybe help with cbs (its at 35 without a amp) if so what should I get and where should I put it? I was thinking a inline amp that dosent need power that way I dont have to mess with power in the attic, or should I just get a amp and plug it in in the living room and plug the antenna into the amp, and the amp into the HR10-250? also would this kill my other stations, or just give them better signal (since they are all at low to mid 70's anyways!) thanks everyone in advance!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No such luck. Fox just re-upped for seven more years.
> 
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13819843/



Well, that's bad news in more then one way. Not a word is mentioned in that article about ESPN and since TBS is getting Sunday Night Baseball I guess that means they are out of the picture?


TBS to me means less games in HD.










I found some more on the deal at mlb's site . Apparently FOX will have the game of the week starting in April, but no mention of HD at all.


I suggest we write FOX: Congrats on your new contract, now how about showing the games in HD.....


----------



## jtscherne

Actually ESPN signed their contract last September. The TBS package is for an afternoon game, so ESPN will still be doing the evening game.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay everyone I need help here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got my HR10-250 up and running, everything is great and looks great! except I cant get cbs, I get all other stations, all at about 70-75, I currently have a radio shack 80 mile anntena with one Rg6 run from my attic to my basement, up the wall to my living room, like I said all one run, no breaks.....now here is my question, should I add a amp to my setup to maybe help with cbs (its at 35 without a amp) if so what should I get and where should I put it? I was thinking a inline amp that dosent need power that way I dont have to mess with power in the attic, or should I just get a amp and plug it in in the living room and plug the antenna into the amp, and the amp into the HR10-250? also would this kill my other stations, or just give them better signal (since they are all at low to mid 70's anyways!) thanks everyone in advance!



IMO I would get a powered amp in the living room. I need it to get NBC to come in.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually ESPN signed their contract last September. The TBS package is for an afternoon game, so ESPN will still be doing the evening game.



Thanks, funny no mention of that until I got to ESPN's page.







I'm glad their deal will continue, but I'm still a bit confused. TBS is getting a Sunday afternoon game, not Sunday Night Baseball? I don't mind that but I hope they don't use the black out rule because that would eliminate me watching the Dodgers on the only day that I get to see a full game because of time difference on MLB Extra Innings.


----------



## jtscherne

TBS wants a national package because they will be getting away from the Braves. 2007 will be the last year they show them nationally.


There's nothing in anything indicating that the Sunday game is exclusive (where ESPN's deal specifically states it with their Sunday night game). Note also that the TBS Sunday game doesn't start until 2008.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, funny no mention of that until I got to ESPN's page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad their deal will continue, but I'm still a bit confused. TBS is getting a Sunday afternoon game, not Sunday Night Baseball? I don't mind that but I hope they don't use the black out rule because that would eliminate me watching the Dodgers on the only day that I get to see a full game because of time difference on MLB Extra Innings.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay everyone I need help here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just got my HR10-250 up and running, everything is great and looks great! except I cant get cbs, I get all other stations, all at about 70-75, I currently have a radio shack 80 mile anntena with one Rg6 run from my attic to my basement, up the wall to my living room, like I said all one run, no breaks.....now here is my question, should I add a amp to my setup to maybe help with cbs (its at 35 without a amp) if so what should I get and where should I put it? I was thinking a inline amp that dosent need power that way I dont have to mess with power in the attic, or should I just get a amp and plug it in in the living room and plug the antenna into the amp, and the amp into the HR10-250? also would this kill my other stations, or just give them better signal (since they are all at low to mid 70's anyways!) thanks everyone in advance!



You can find a good selection of high quality preamps here: http://www.starkelectronic.com/allamps.htm 

They all have two pieces - one piece that mounts on the antenna mast and the other that is next to your receiver. I believe the piece that mounts on your mast receives power through the coax from the piece that is next to your receiver. If your antenna has 300 ohm flat lead terminals, get an amp that has the 300 ohm input. As you can see, the amps get more expensive as the gain figures go up. You'll have to decide how much you want to spend.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Either 8-1 over OTA or Channel 88 from FoxNY since Fox8 is O&O. That is unless you have the MPEG4 equipment already in that case its on Channel 8.



ok, thx for responding. I was expecting it to be on some HD STO station via D* which I can't seem to receive. It showed up in the guide on channel 96 one day but no picture.


Is anyone still receiving channel 88? D* told me they can't send it anymore(even though it's o&o) because they're offering Cleveland HD locals.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ok, thx for responding. I was expecting it to be on some HD STO station via D* which I can't seem to receive. It showed up in the guide on channel 96 one day but no picture.



You won't get STO in HD on D*, on that channel 96, unless you have the equipment for HD LILs.


----------



## Tom in OH

96 is a special event HD channel. Why would someone need the 5 lnb dish to receive STO? You might be right, I'm just curious.


----------



## Ben Music

News flash: At 3:30 today the FCC finally aproved the sale of Adelphia cable to Comcast/Time Warner. More info to follow when released.


Ben Music


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, that's bad news in more then one way. Not a word is mentioned in that article about ESPN and since TBS is getting Sunday Night Baseball I guess that means they are out of the picture?
> 
> 
> TBS to me means less games in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found some more on the deal at mlb's site . Apparently FOX will have the game of the week starting in April, but no mention of HD at all.
> 
> 
> I suggest we write FOX: Congrats on your new contract, now how about showing the games in HD.....



IIRC, the new deal Fox signed was a more profitable one than the existing contract so maybe they will be motivated to give us some HD.


I get TNT-HD on WOW -- since that is a Turner property I wonder if that would be an outlet for TBS games in HD? Probably not, that would make too much sense. I'm sure we'll have to beg and plead and wait a full year to get TBS HD on our various cable/sat systems.


----------



## JoeySR

At 9:00 pm we do not have analog channels, digital are working.

We are in Burton - anyone else have this?


Thanks, JoeySR


----------



## Brian81

Anyone know pricing of the advantagepaks (Digital Cable + Internet)? Curious as to how much the "Ultimatepak" (which includes all 4 Premium stations) + HD Plus Tier would cost per month? They don't provide pricing online.


----------



## bassguitarman

We should start a poll.

Once TW takes over how much will you tolerate their rate increase before dumping them.

10 percent, 20 percent ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At 9:00 pm we do not have analog channels, digital are working.
> 
> We are in Burton - anyone else have this?
> 
> 
> Thanks, JoeySR



I didn't see this until this morning but what exactly were you saying? You mean all of the analog stations like TBS, FX, were out? Or where you refering to the channels on the 800 tier?


Channels in my area (Bainbridge) are digital with a converter box on 2,4,5,6, and 8. If you are watching without a converter box these channels are analog and you see them on the 800 tier with a digital box.


As of this morning everything is working in my area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We should start a poll.
> 
> Once TW takes over how much will you tolerate their rate increase before dumping them.
> 
> 10 percent, 20 percent ?



I don't think I can dump them. I still don't see any alternative for me to receive HD through any other means then cable, due to location (trees) phone service and such.


Who's to say it will cost more? And I won't mind paying a bit more if they increase HD content and quality of existing service.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have Adelphia also (near the Cleveland Heights office) and I am unable to get 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 through QAM in HD. The two channels I can receive in HD through QAM are the same ones others are reporting: 776 (Discovery HD) and 798 (Adelphia's bonus channel for Tribe/Cavs). I think Adelphia moved 776 (Discovery HD) into the "Broadcast HD tier" a while ago. I can also get some of the digital channels that other's have reported "free and clear" including 157, 183, etc. But just can't seem to find 3-5-8-etc.
> 
> 
> One suggestion I received earlier is to run the cable directly into the TV (right now I had it split--one to the box, the other to the TV.) Unfortunately that didn't work. I just can't seem to find the HD locals. Which is disappointing because I had considered getting a smaller LCD HDTV for the bedroom, and was hoping to use it without the cable box.



Pucky, those channels are transmitted in the clear. I suspect that you either don't have enough signal level and/or there's ingress or distortion on your line that's affecting those frequencies. I can receive 3, 5, 8 in HD with a DCR set (QAM tuner) with no trouble.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We should start a poll.
> 
> Once TW takes over how much will you tolerate their rate increase before dumping them.
> 
> 10 percent, 20 percent ?



Due to a lack of interest in cable, I don't even bother getting it. News? If it's important enough, it'll be OTA. Sports? There are enough options OTA and streamed online. Programs? The only thing I miss out on, but don't miss out on. I can buy DVD's to watch reruns.


Time Warner is terribly expensive. And Satelite is following close behind now. Enough people, almost everyone, seems addicted to cable though... and will pay whatever to get it. At $50 a month, that's 75 used movies you could buy a year! You could rent online all the HBO series and whatever else you'd want for under half the $50 a month. If you are willing to wait long enough, you can even get the stuff for free from the Library.


I don't understand why people pay so much to get the little they want.


----------



## stuart628

alright sorry it took so long to update, I have been messing with this antenna, trying to build a new deck, keep the garden cleaned out, all on top of my regular household chores (owning a house is alot of fun, but man the work is a pain sometimes!) anyways, I put a amp on my line, and it kills my NBC signal down to 55-65, also my fox and abc go down to 70, and cbs goes up maybe 10 points







I went over to my grandmas house who lives maybe 5 minutes from me, she just got a samsung Hdtv with a internal tuner, I reran her ground wire, and ran new Rg6 from her antenna (hers is on her roof, mine in my attic) to the tv, and she gets all Locals with all just at or about 85-90 signal (yes including NBC and CBS which I find AMAZING) she doesnt have a problem picking up anything, and has such a high signal she should have a problem even in heavy rain storms.......anyways, the point of this post (tired of reading yet? if you are even still reading) is to get my antenna outside somehow and make it look nice, wether it be through a pole mount or band it to my chimmeny, I think that is my only option, unless you guys can thnink of something else, I am out of ideas!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why people pay so much to get the little they want.



I agree, it's expensive and if your willing to wait some times as long as 3 years you can probably get everything on DVD cheaper. But from what I see in this forum with the problems people are having receiving OTA HD, I'd rather have it delivered on cable. In addition with my DVR I watch when I want to watch, not when the networks tell me to.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I were to get a CableCARD or STB would it likely work?



I have a cablecard with Adelpha and it works great! I do not have the HD tier, but I do get all HD locals, HD Disc and STO. Other nice thing about the cablecard is that all the channel numbers are correct.


----------



## JoeySR

Hookbill - It was all the analogs on my cablebox 3,4,5,6,8 and the 700"s

were ok. They were out for about 20 minutes. They came back shortly after

I posted. I thought perhaps TW had already taken over







. Actually I was

hoping when they came back on that they would all be digital and the

analogs would be over on the 800 channels. No such luck.


BTW - Adelphia told me today that TWC will take over on August 1st and new offerings of HSI should be out by 9.15.2006.


JoeySR


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill - It was all the analogs on my cablebox 3,4,5,6,8 and the 700"s
> 
> were ok. BTW - Adelphia told me today that TWC will take over on August 1st and new offerings of HSI should be out by 9.15.2006.
> 
> 
> JoeySR



JoeySR, just so you understand channels 3,4,5,6,and 8 on the cable box ARE digital, not analog. I know it's a bit confusing but we've discussed this quite a bit here and the channels on the 800's are actually the analog ones. It works like this which is kind of strange but let's say you don't have a digital box and you hook up to Adelphia. What you would see on 3,4,5,6, and 8 is actually 803, 804, 805, 806, and 808. The proof of this is if you have a home theater system hooked up you will notice that you get a Dolby 2.0 signal from 3,4 etc. and you get a PCM signal from the 800 channels. Plus if you switch back and forth there is a the 3-8 channels and you should be able to see a difference in PQ. I do.


However if you ask a CSR at Adelphia, they will say it's opposite. Ask a tech that comes out and they will confirm what I said.


Which get's back to never believing anything a CSR tells you







. Hope your correct about the 9/15/06 thing.


----------



## stuart628

okay another update, and you guys I need a little input


This is weird, but I was up in the attic messing with the antenna, and I flipped it over,(amp attached downstairs still) and heard my Cbs go a little higher pitched, so I pointed the antenna best I could, got out of the attic ran downstairs, adn I now have NBc in at 60, Abc in at 80, Fox in at 80, cbs in at 68, Youngstown cbs/fox in at 59-61 all good pictures with no pixleation, so my antenna is upside down (yes I know which way is right side up) and I gined the Cbs (which now has weather when did that happen) and youngstown


so should I be happy and leave it as is? also anyone with the HR10-250, how low on signal do you go before losing picture, at 60 I am getting a great picture!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 96 is a special event HD channel. Why would someone need the 5 lnb dish to receive STO? You might be right, I'm just curious.



I don't know DirecTV all that well, but I'm pretty sure that's correct - they're using channel 96 on the new equipment to send out the local RSN in HD.


It is not seen on the old equipment. It's a regional spot beam that uses the same facilities as the local HD LILs...if you get those, you get STO in HD. If you don't have the equipment to get those, you don't.


I don't know how that relates to D* using 96 for non-MPEG4 HD special events. Maybe they can even do both, and the new receiver maps 96 to the local RSN in HD.


Here, here's the scoop direct (ha) from a D* press release:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....397&highlight= 



> Quote:
> Customers who live within the RSN team territory and the spot beam area will also be required to have the H20 (MPEG4 compatible) HD receiver along with a five LNB dish to receive the RSN's HD programming. The HD games will be available on viewer channel 96 or 97 in each market, and the 24/7 RSNs will be seen on a separate channel that will have the same viewer channel number as their standard definition feed. For customers outside the spot beam, select HD games may be available on channel 95.



So it appears they are mapping the "game only" RSNs as a HD "special event" on the same channel you see MPEG2 special events on, only on the MPEG4 stuff as described above. If/when STO ever goes 24/7 with enough HD to justify DirecTV carrying it full time, it'll be on 657 on the new receivers, in HD.


----------



## JJkizak

I see that 19.2 is on line but not transmitting anything OTA. Anybody know what it will be?

JJK


----------



## JJkizak

Stewart628:

While I question the accuracy of the signal strength meters in my tuner I have had some just barely showing in the bottom 1/16th of the scale and received an excellent picture. The meter in my tuner is highly damped so you can't see quick fades which cause the dropouts. I have never seen a signal higher than about 80% on the meter.

As far as the antenna being upside down---whatever works works. Some knowledgeable people have told me antenna design is a crapshoot. They try something and if it works they then write the theory. If it doesn't work they try something else. Probably the ultimate would be a special designed rotating house with one wall a "30 ft parabolic design" and a bank of parametric amplifier front ends, one for each channel. You could augment this with another like designed house 100 ft away and 50 ft behind with the same setup and combine the two signals for space diversity if you don't mind the staggering cost. Enough fun for today.

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay another update, and you guys I need a little input
> 
> 
> This is weird, but I was up in the attic messing with the antenna, and I flipped it over,(amp attached downstairs still) and heard my Cbs go a little higher pitched, so I pointed the antenna best I could, got out of the attic ran downstairs, adn I now have NBc in at 60, Abc in at 80, Fox in at 80, cbs in at 68, Youngstown cbs/fox in at 59-61 all good pictures with no pixleation, so my antenna is upside down (yes I know which way is right side up) and I gined the Cbs (which now has weather when did that happen) and youngstown
> 
> 
> so should I be happy and leave it as is? also anyone with the HR10-250, how low on signal do you go before losing picture, at 60 I am getting a great picture!



Being in an attic, your antenna is subject to interference from anything metallic (foil on insulation, material used on your roof {vents}, aluminium siding on gables etc.) You just happened to stumble upon a "sweet spot" when you turned your antenna over. I bet if you hooked that antenna to an analog receiver the pictures would still look bad (not that it matters in digital, however it's not the best situation to leave your antenna). I strongly suggest that you get your antenna mounted outside.


As for how strong a signal, on my receiver (a Dish Network 921) it needs a steady 66 - 70 for a lock, YYMV with a DirecTV box. The lowest my 921 ever locked was 62, but there was alot of breakup at that level.


BTW: Did you actually see a weather program on 19-2, or was it just identified as weather in the guide? I'll have to rescan. Ever since WKBN-DT came on (and I put up an antenna on my roof aimed that way) I've been watching most of my CBS a'la Youngstown. BTW2: Did you see 27-2? That's a SD FOX channel WYFX. Come football season that channel may bring us diffent games than WJW (varies week to week). Enjoy the wonderful world of digital OTA reception!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW: Did you actually see a weather program on 19-2, or was it just identified as weather in the guide?



Yeah, I saw 19-2 last night also. Just a blank carrier - no picture or sound. This was probably after 10:00 last night.


I also noticed that WQHS-DT was having problems last night. I could not get a lock on their signal and the signal strength meter was bouncing like crazy up and down. No big deal - I don't speak Spanish and the World Cup is over.


----------



## stuart628

Thanks everybody, I was actually fine tuning my antenna and one of the (I dont know what they are called, but I call them ribs for the Vhf side of channels Fell off, lol so now I cant lock cbs nbc no matter what as it isnt a balanced antenna! off to radio shack for another) anyways yeah its going to be a weather channel, showed up as woio-we on my gandmas tv, I rescanned and it popped up on mine, also the youngstown fox, no matter if youngstown cbs is kinda screwy (lighting would pixelate it) Fox was always on!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks everybody, I was actually fine tuning my antenna and one of the (I dont know what they are called, but I call them ribs for the Vhf side of channels Fell off, lol so now I cant lock cbs nbc no matter what as it isnt a balanced antenna!



same thing happened to us with our RS vu-120. The longest VHF elements fell off after ice and wind and lost most of it's signal. Hopefully RS will replace your's. If not, u might wanna try Winegard. The design seems a little more solid(build & signal). It must be a real blessing having a big attic to put the antenna where it's not subject to weather. It's kinda fun messing with antennas, trying to get the best signal. It's even more fun when it works... ^_^


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here, here's the scoop direct (ha) from a D* press release:
> 
> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....397&highlight=
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it appears they are mapping the "game only" RSNs as a HD "special event" on the same channel you see MPEG2 special events on, only on the MPEG4 stuff as described above. If/when STO ever goes 24/7 with enough HD to justify DirecTV carrying it full time, it'll be on 657 on the new receivers, in HD.



Inundated,

thx for the article link. I've been saying a long time that D* needs to offer more HD channels in MPeg4 to give customers the incentive to switch(from the 3lnb dish). It appears it's finally happening. Of course we'll want to record in HD as well..... But thx again for the article and info. You were right as rain... ^_^


----------



## hookbill

Anyone else notice that the sound is off synch on WEWS-DT? For the past few weeks I've been watching Kyle XY and The Evidence and each time I've watched I've seen a problem.


I watch these shows on my SA 8300 DVR, so I'm wondering if anyone else who has seen this either during the broadcast or recorded has noticed it as well.


----------



## rlockshin

Not getting channels 49 1-3

Are they off the air?


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not getting channels 49 1-3
> 
> Are they off the air?



OK here, normal signal strength and receiving normal programming.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that the sound is off synch on WEWS-DT? For the past few weeks I've been watching Kyle XY and The Evidence and each time I've watched I've seen a problem.
> 
> 
> I watch these shows on my SA 8300 DVR, so I'm wondering if anyone else who has seen this either during the broadcast or recorded has noticed it as well.



I've had sporadic problems with WEWS-DT's audio sync, this is OTA via an E* 921.


Last week I was watching another channel OTA when the sound went off totaly for a second or so while the picture stayed on. There was a terrible out-of-sync condition when that happened. I "rewound" the DVR to see if the sound was out-of-sync before the audio dropped out. Suere enough it was in perfect sync before the dropout. So out-of-sync condition can happen at any time on any channel. It's not the fault of your receiver or the cable company. Digital broadcasting is still in its infancy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've had sporadic problems with WEWS-DT's audio sync, this is OTA via an E* 921.
> 
> 
> Last week I was watching another channel OTA when the sound went off totaly for a second or so while the picture stayed on. There was a terrible out-of-sync condition when that happened. I "rewound" the DVR to see if the sound was out-of-sync before the audio dropped out. Suere enough it was in perfect sync before the dropout. So out-of-sync condition can happen at any time on any channel. It's not the fault of your receiver or the cable company. Digital broadcasting is still in its infancy.



Thanks for the response. The degree that these shows are out of synch vary, sometimes they are way off and others just slightly. It even appears to change as the show goes on, sometimes getting farther off then others not so off.


Strange also that it's only on WEWS. You would think they would have fixed this by now.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. The degree that these shows are out of synch vary, sometimes they are way off and others just slightly. It even appears to change as the show goes on, sometimes getting farther off then others not so off.
> 
> 
> Strange also that it's only on WEWS. You would think they would have fixed this by now.



WEWS-DT seems to have the most issues of the local broadcasters with video/audio sync. I have seen times where the sync is so bad, it is downright distracting and annoying.


----------



## gzath

And doing a fine job helping out the station







.


From today's Plain Deceiver:


"Less than a month before their first preseason game, the Browns are looking for a new television partner after terminating their relationship with WOIO Channel 19.


The Browns notified the station of their intention on Thursday, three days after Channel 19 aired the 911 tape of Nancy Fisher, sister of Browns owner Randy Lerner, finding her 6-year-old daughter drowned in a creek on family property in Mantua.


Channel 19 was the only station to air the gruesome portion of Fisher's emergency call.


Bill Bonsiewicz, Browns spokesman, confirmed the team is looking for a new station to air its four preseason games and other programming throughout the season. He declined to elaborate on the reason for the abrupt switch.


The Browns were entering the second year of a three-year agreement with Channel 19.


A source said Channel 19 paid $2 million a year for the Browns' TV rights in a deal negotiated by former club president John Collins. WKYC Channel 3 had been the team's local flagship station from the expansion year of 1999 through 2004.


Bill Applegate, WOIO's general manager, could not be reached for comment. A message for news director Dan Salamone was not returned.


The airing of the 911 call was the last straw in a relationship that was rocky from the start.


Last year the Browns were at odds with the station over an on-air interview with Braylon Edwards that left the rookie receiver and his mother uncomfortable and complaining to team officials. Neither the team nor the station was satisfied with local ratings of programming supplied by the Browns on Saturday and Monday nights.


The Browns might choose to air their midweek programming on cable outlets Fox Sports Net Ohio or SportsTime Ohio. But they are obligated to televise all preseason games on an over-the-air station.


The first exhibition game is Aug. 10 in Philadelphia against the Eagles."







Will this be the final nail in 19's Tabloid News' coffin?


Probably not.


Hopefully the preseason will be picked up by one of the better local HD stations ... 3 or 8 (please not 5)


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A
> 
> Hopefully the preseason will be picked up by one of the better local HD stations ... 3 or 8 (please not 5)



Wonder why Channel 5 can't get their act together.


----------



## snagy

I VOTE FOR WKYC TO PICK UP THE GAMES, I Think they have the best HD signal (VHF)


----------



## paule123

I vote for any combination of 3, 8 and STO. That would give us a remote possibility, time and money permitting, of Browns pre-season HD.


Management at WOIO should get the idiot-of-the-year award for screwing their own paying customer, the Browns, by exploiting a personal tragedy.


To quote Don Henley:


"We got the bubbleheaded bleach-blonde, comes on at 5

She can tell you about the plane crash with a gleam in her eye

It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry"


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I VOTE FOR WKYC TO PICK UP THE GAMES, I Think they have the best HD signal (VHF)



Maybe for you, however there are many here who have major problems with WKYC-DT. Part of the problem is that VHF signal is on ch 2 where there are 2 analog stations right next door in Detroit and Pittsburgh. This screws potential viewers of both WKYC-DT and the 2 analog stations in places like Sandusky and Alliance (both towns in the Cleveland DMA but far enough out to be affected by neighoring signals). Even viewers closer in town have serious issues with WKYC-DT.


In theory the best frequency to be on is VHF High (chs. 7 through 13). WOIO-DT is on ch 10, however there is an analog station on ch 10 in London Ontario which used to come in like a local station in Lake and Ashtabula Counties. Additionally Columbus has an analog on 10 as well which wacks Mansfield's reception of WOIO-DT.


It looks like WJW, wisely, wants to revert to ch 8 for their permanent digital channel. I wish WOIO would revert to 19. WOIO managed to block WBNS in Columbus from reverting to ch 10. WBNS was on the air for decades before WOIO, why should they get ch 10? It is dumb move on WOIO's part, not just for WBNS but also for the Canadian station - which will probably be on the air for many years after the U.S. transition is over. Fortunately WKBN-DT in Youngstown has a signal that is blanketing northeast Ohio and western PA whith a signal that reaches from the shores of Lake Erie in the city of Cleveland (no other Youngstown station reaches the lake) all the way to Pittsburgh! I'm wathcing WKBN for my CBS today here in Parma, in the shadow of the WOIO tower.







WOIO's digital picture stinks (chroma pulsation).


Couple this technical blunder with the blunder their news department did to the Learner family (look above several posts up) and you will see WOIO digging themselves in a deep, deep hole.


----------



## wlgann

Kind of a noob question, but here goes.


I'm in Cleveland Heights, about 12 - 14 miles from the main antenna farm in Parma. All the stations I really care about receiving are in that farm, within 4 deg of each other. I can elevate an antenna in my (100% wood) attic to almost 30 ft.


Anyone have an antenna recommendation? Antennaweb.org shows pretty much the entire antenna farm in the "red" zone, except for WJW-DT which is the first station shown in purple. Can I get away with a Silver Sensor or will I need something more substantial?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wlgann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kind of a noob question, but here goes.
> 
> 
> I'm in Cleveland Heights, about 12 - 14 miles from the main antenna farm in Parma. All the stations I really care about receiving are in that farm, within 4 deg of each other. I can elevate an antenna in my (100% wood) attic to almost 30 ft.
> 
> 
> Anyone have an antenna recommendation? Antennaweb.org shows pretty much the entire antenna farm in the "red" zone, except for WJW-DT which is the first station shown in purple. Can I get away with a Silver Sensor or will I need something more substantial?



I'm in Shaker Heights, and have one of these:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...=&PROD=AD-SR15 

mounted outside a 3rd floor window aimed at Parma, and I pick up all the Cleveland locals including WKYC (even though the antenna is UHF only). I have a straight coax run down to a Samsung SIR-T165 on the 1st floor, no splitters, no amps. It's a nice compact little antenna -- I didn't want to strap a big monstrosity to my chimney, nor did I want to kill myself on the ladder installing it. The specs say it's 35" long - but I think that is a typo. Maybe more like 24" long.


I did use the Silver Sensor inside the 3rd floor window for many years, but it was always a bit flaky, and WKYC was marginal.


I did not have good luck with an antenna inside the attic - I tried a medium size Radio Shack UHF/VHF outdoor antenna in the attic and it did not work for me.


Also note my Samsung SIR-T165 is a first generation HDTV tuner, so newer tuners may do much much better with a smaller antenna.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Couple this technical blunder with the blunder their news department did to the Learner family (look above several posts up) and you will see WOIO digging themselves in a deep, deep hole.



I suspect that WOIO made the decision to stay on RF channel 10 after analog shutdown for one reason - MONEY. It takes a lot less electricity to broadcast at RF channel 10 than it does at RF channel 19 and cover the same area. We are, after all, talking about Raycom!










If Raycom wants to save even more money, they should just shut down that sorry excuse for a news department. These stations are an embarassment to NE Ohio.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If Raycom wants to save even more money, they should just shut down that sorry excuse for a news department. These stations are an embarassment to NE Ohio.



Well, let's see. They have an anchor that likes to attend nude events. A weather guy that colors his hair. Some of the ugliest people I've ever seen on television.


I think they are already scraping the bottom of the barrel on cost with their news as it stands.










Although you gotta love a guy that has a name like "Harry Boomer."


----------



## snagy

Doesn't the NFL have a say on who broadcasts what? I mean in the sense that FOX channels do NFC and CBS does AFC? Or is it really just how the contract is worded. I somehow can't see our Local Fox 8 doing both NFC and AFC on the same day.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doesn't the NFL have a say on who broadcasts what? I mean in the sense that FOX channels do NFC and CBS does AFC? Or is it really just how the contract is worded. I somehow can't see our Local Fox 8 doing both NFC and AFC on the same day.



I think FOX 8 is just doing the pregames, as WOIO blew it out it's butt with their comments. Also they will be the so called "Browns Station" like WOIO was.


When the season rolls out Browns games will be primarily on CBS, aka WOIO.


----------



## gzath

From Roger Brown's (Plain Dealer) column today:


"Word is WOIO


Channel 19 General Manager Bill Applegate has been seeking a meeting with Norma Lerner, mother of Browns owner Randy Lerner, in hopes of getting the Browns to reverse their sudden decision to end their local TV contract with Channel 19 (with two seasons remaining). The Browns dumped Channel 19 shortly after the station aired a 911 call made by Nancy Fisher, Randy Lerner's sister, when she discovered her daughter had drowned on the family's Mantua property.


Channel 19 has hinted it will take legal action to keep the Browns from ending their contract, which covers team preseason games and other programming. Regardless of whether it loses the Browns deal, WOIO still will air most of the team's regular-season games in 2006. Those games are aired by CBS, and Channel 19 is that network's local affiliate.


Norma Lerner is the widow of Al Lerner, the late Browns owner.


Channel 19 and Browns contract, part 2:


Word is at least two of Channel 19's big advertisers, furious that the station may lose the Browns TV deal, have been burning up Channel 19's phone lines this week, demanding answers."






The first part is laughable. Kind of reminds me of when you're a kid and the snivling spoiled brat in the neighborhood would always say "I'm gonna go tell your Mom what you did!"


The second part is the real problem for WOIO (*W*hat *O*ur *I*diots *O*ffer). Money talks! I wonder who's going to get the ax on this one. News Director? Producer?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doesn't the NFL have a say on who broadcasts what? I mean in the sense that FOX channels do NFC and CBS does AFC? Or is it really just how the contract is worded. I somehow can't see our Local Fox 8 doing both NFC and AFC on the same day.



I think for preseason, the NFL may not care what local station broadcasts the games. Last season I thought it was kind of an odd choice that WKYC (NBC) was doing the preseason, at the time NBC wasn't carrying any regular season NFL games at all.


----------



## Inundated

The NFL has no say in stations' sale of pre-season rights. The Browns can sell to any over-air outlet in the market...it has nothing to do with the in-season broadcasts.


The vast majority of in-season games will indeed be on WOIO, no matter what happens with this situation. There's nothing the Browns can do about that part, since they're a CBS affiliate and CBS broadcasts AFC football (when the away team in the game is in the AFC).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The NFL has no say in stations' sale of pre-season rights. The Browns can sell to any over-air outlet in the market...it has nothing to do with the in-season broadcasts.
> 
> 
> The vast majority of in-season games will indeed be on WOIO, no matter what happens with this situation. There's nothing the Browns can do about that part, since they're a CBS affiliate and CBS broadcasts AFC football (when the home team in the game is in the AFC).



Actually it's the _away team_ that determines which network gets to carry the game.


Whenever the Browns visited an NFC team it was on CBS. Whenever an NFC team played here in Cleveland, it was on FOX. Check the schedule for yourself.


Here is all of last year: http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually it's the _away team_ that determines which network gets to carry the game.
> 
> 
> Whenever the Browns visited an NFC team it was on CBS. Whenever an NFC team played here in Cleveland, it was on FOX. Check the schedule for yourself.
> 
> 
> Here is all of last year: http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html



You are correct. I was focusing on the phrase "home team" because the Browns are our local team, and since the games are sold out here, we always see those as well.


----------



## Speedskater

*O.T. Interconnect Cables*

I'll post this here, because the stores are only in N.E. Ohio.

Marc's Drug Stores have some very nice RCA brand interconnect cables.

6 foot Component Video & Stereo Audio Cable #PD6DCSA for $5.99.

3 foot Composite Video & Stereo Audio Cable #PD3SAV for $3.99.

They also have other lenghts and "S" Video cables.


----------



## JJkizak

Noticed that the OTA sound on 43.2 took a huge drop in level recently, kind of matching that of 3.1. I would think there is some kind of level that should be adheard too. None of the channels has the same level and the difference between the commercials and the movies is huge, maybe close to 15db. What ever happened to first carrier dropout for reference?


JJK


----------



## Ognir

I was wondering if anyone outside of Massillon Cable had trouble with the HD broadcast of the Tribes game on Saturday night?


----------



## Phoenix2088

Just wanted to mention that WBNX's "Trends" page has a new updated date of Sept. 2006 for the projected launch date for the digital broadcast. Not sure that means much since only the date changed with the rest of the page remaining the same, but nonetheless it is an update.


----------



## Ben Music

Is the Time Warner takeover of Comcast/Adelphia still on for 8/1/06?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the Time Warner takeover of Comcast/Adelphia still on for 8/1/06?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



It should be a go. Last I heard the only stopping it was the FCC hearing on July 13. As the link shows, it was approved


----------



## rlockshin

I lost 19-2 . I knownothing was on it.

What is going to be on it and when


----------



## Ognir

I am on Massillon Cable and I was wondering if anyone else ( not on MCTV) is having problems with drop outs on the Indians HD broadcast on STO ?


----------



## Inundated

Looks like the Adelphia/TWC thing is on target:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...l=2&thispage=1 


Though it looks like TWC will take over August 1st (a week from today!), it'll take much longer to merge the Adelphia/Comcast systems into the TWC fold...technically and all that.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am on Massillon Cable and I was wondering if anyone else ( not on MCTV) is having problems with drop outs on the Indians HD broadcast on STO ?



When did Massillon Cable start carrying the STO HD feed? I thought they only had the analog channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like the Adelphia/TWC thing is on target:
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...l=2&thispage=1
> 
> 
> Though it looks like TWC will take over August 1st (a week from today!), it'll take much longer to merge the Adelphia/Comcast systems into the TWC fold...technically and all that.



Well, I already said it.








But it's nice to see it in the PD as well. Good to see they will hold prices for a bit. Hope it's not too much of an adventure.


Do they offer any HD programing that we (Adelphia)don't get?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I already said it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's nice to see it in the PD as well. Good to see they will hold prices for a bit. Hope it's not too much of an adventure.
> 
> 
> Do they offer any HD programing that we (Adelphia)don't get?



TWC has TNT HD, and locally, WUAB in HD. Also, TWC has WNEO/WEAO while Adelphia has WVIZ. (I don't know if WNEO/WEAO's PBS HD schedule is still airing at all on cable while they work on it OTA....if so, it's basically the same feed as WVIZ-DT's on Adelphia.)


On the other hand, Adelphia has ESPN2HD, and TWC does not (though there's apparently an agreement to carry it, so that shouldn't be a big deal).


WUAB shouldn't be a problem to spread to the former Adelphia systems, since they already carry sister WOIO-DT.


I'm wondering how much of this, if any, gets done before channel lineups consolidate, and if TWC will spread WKYC's "Akron/Canton News" to Adelphia/Comcast as soon as next week. That would just require airing it on existing Adelphia local channels.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When did Massillon Cable start carrying the STO HD feed? I thought they only had the analog channel.



I am not sure it has been on since I joined the here.

Its Channel 82.2


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am not sure it has been on since I joined the here.
> 
> Its Channel 82.2



Oh, so they must be airing it as a QAM channel at least now. That might mean it's not ready for "prime time" and they still need to work on it before releasing it.


(Adelphia did the same here with Fox Sports Net Ohio's HD Cavs telecasts earlier this year.)


STO's new website still only lists the analog games on Massillon Cable 11:

http://sportstimeohio.com/sto411.php 


Massillon Cable's website says the same, and does not yet list STO in HD:

http://www.massilloncabletv.com/hdtv1.html


----------



## hookbill

Oh crap, they are going to switch the domain names to roadrunner.com. It will take a while it says but that answers another question about the take over. Comcast people also will have domain name changes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh crap, they are going to switch the domain names to roadrunner.com.



Actually, the default for current TWC Roadrunner folks in Northeast Ohio is:

[email protected] 


My sister has an account.


----------



## paule123

Seems like AT&T (SBC) is quickly deploying their VRAD (Project Lightspeed) boxes around here (east side). I've seen some existing VRAD boxes for a few months now, but in the last couple weeks I've passed two new sites on the way to work pouring concrete pads and digging trenches to install equipment.


Should make for an interesting Christmas season if AT&T lights up their IPTV cable service by the end of the year. The new competition might keep those existing cable prices from going up...


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I lost 19-2 . I knownothing was on it.
> 
> What is going to be on it and when



Yeah, the blank feed on 19-2 disappeared for me too. I remember reading somewhere that WOIO-DT was planning a digital subchannel for sometime in the future - maybe it was Ohio Media Watch?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Seems like AT&T (SBC) is quickly deploying their VRAD (Project Lightspeed) boxes around here (east side). I've seen some existing VRAD boxes for a few months now, but in the last couple weeks I've passed two new sites on the way to work pouring concrete pads and digging trenches to install equipment.
> 
> 
> Should make for an interesting Christmas season if AT&T lights up their IPTV cable service by the end of the year. The new competition might keep those existing cable prices from going up...



Just did a bit of research on Project Lightspeed. Sounds impressive but it appears since it's AT&T it will come over telephone wire. I've had broadband before and I find cable more reliable, but that was in Cincinnati.


And I would assume since I live in an "Alltel" area I would not be able to get it at all. I don't even have land line service anymore they were so bad I went with Vonage.


San Antonio Texas appears to be the only area in the country that has Lightspeed.


Edited to add: In the demos that I looked at there was not one mention of HD. They take you through a great little time capsule of communications and electronic events but nothing at all about HD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just did a bit of research on Project Lightspeed. Sounds impressive but it appears since it's AT&T it will come over telephone wire. I've had broadband before and I find cable more reliable, but that was in Cincinnati.
> 
> 
> And I would assume since I live in an "Alltel" area I would not be able to get it at all. I don't even have land line service anymore they were so bad I went with Vonage.
> 
> 
> San Antonio Texas appears to be the only area in the country that has Lightspeed.
> 
> 
> Edited to add: In the demos that I looked at there was not one mention of HD. They take you through a great little time capsule of communications and electronic events but nothing at all about HD.



I beleive they are starting HD service in San Antonio around September timeframe, then starting to offer U-Verse in other areas this fall (I suspect Ohio, Michigan and Illinois would be high on the list). I am real curious to hear the feedback on the HD from real users. Personally I don't see how they are going to put high quality HD through that small a pipe (I've read 8Mbps will be for HD video, 6Mbps for internet data, and the rest of a 25Mbps pipe for SD channels) We shall see. Keep an eye on www.uverseusers.com , that seems to be where the real users are.


----------



## JJkizak

I have had Alltel DSL 1.5 meg installed last week with one master filter on the outside of the house on a conventional land line. The service so far has been flawless---no dumps, no freezes, no spam, no slow online attempts, no slow speed attempts, no aborts on attempts, no aborts during processes, and it is fast. For 5 more bucks per month I can get 3 meg and for 15 more bucks per month I can get 6 meg speed. Well anyway right now I am real happy with it. I have 9 phones, 2 security systems, 1 answer machine. If you want to send a fax message then of course the phone line is occupied but the DSL still will work OK.

The outside filter feeds the other two wires that are not used for phones and is split off to feed the DSL modem.

JJK


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh crap, they are going to switch the domain names to roadrunner.com. It will take a while it says but that answers another question about the take over. Comcast people also will have domain name changes.



Since your email address is going to change anyway, you should make the change to a superior web based system like Google's Gmail. You can then access your mail from any location that has internet access(you can still use a POP3 client like Outlook Express if you like). It's free and they give you 2 GB of storage. I've been using it for about a year and a half and have been very satisfied. Now I can change my ISP whenever I like and never have to worry about changing my email address. Let me know if you would like me to email you an invite(currently the only way to sign up).


----------



## bassguitarman

Well I've spouted off about this here before.

But

I'd bet big money I drop TWC within 6 months of conversion.

I've been very happy with Adelphia service, channel lineup, price, the 8310 DVR.

I have too many coworkers that tell me how screwed up TWC is.

Heck they cant even make the 8310 work properly on their network assuming they even let me use one.

Dave


----------



## SteveC

I've been with TWC for a little over a year and have had no complaints(was a Voom customer previously). I wish they had a few more HD channels(like ESPN2 and Cinemax) but other than that they have been very solid. I have the 8300 HD DVR and it has worked very well for me. I also have Roadrunner and it also has been flawless. Maybe I've just been lucky. I don't see the small dish companies as a viable alternative until they completely convert to MPEG4 and improve their PQ and number of HD channels. I also have no desire to buy my own HD DVR for hundreds of dollars.


----------



## bassguitarman

I've also been pricing their packages and it looks like its going to be about 20 percent higher in price.

Dave


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've also been pricing their packages and it looks like its going to be about 20 percent higher in price.
> 
> Dave



TWC ain't cheap - I'll give you that. What alternatives are you considering?


----------



## hookbill

Ugh, I hate Adelphia I'm so glad to see them go I'll think I'll throw a party.










The first time a tech came out to my house to install the SA 8300 he couldn't figure it out. He left, I went on the internet and set it up. He did come back the next day with the same printed instructions I found on SA's web site, but come on.


CSR's at Adelphia are the most clueless mass of idiots. Most people in this forum have a better idea of how their system works then they do.


Over the past two years I've been with them I've had to go to their office more then once to show them they have a problem because no one at customer service believed me.


Now I will give you that over the past 6 months things have been pretty good. But then again they haven't made any updates to the SA 8300 in a while, the one time they did things got so botched up they pulled it and went back to the other version.


I welcome TW with open arms.


Bassguitarman, what is the 8310, is it a converter box or DVR? If it's a DVR then you won't use it with the switchover, everything I've read in concern with this type of change indicates that the 8300 will still be the DVR with SARA software.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I lost 19-2 . I knownothing was on it.
> 
> What is going to be on it and when



I was getting somethig on 19-2, the SD version of WOIO. It was a true SD feed, not just a downrezzed version of the HD feed. Besides the obvious 4X3 aspect ratio I can tell by the location and size of the CBS eye bug (a downrezzed version would have the bug almost totally off the screen). This reminded me of what WKYC used to do a couple of years ago.


----------



## Felony44

A few weeks ago i posted a problem with WKYC 3 on DTV LIL hd. The problem was the picture seemed to be in slow motion well now on DTV channel 96 hd which is STO all the games seem to be in slow motion on there too. I spoke with a DTV CSR today who said they have no other complaints logged but will send this problem to the engineers if you have this problem please call DTV and report it the CSR said if they get a few complaints they will take care of the problem asap. I know this isnt just my problem because i have two friends who are having the same problem.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ugh, I hate Adelphia I'm so glad to see them go I'll think I'll throw a party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first time a tech came out to my house to install the SA 8300 he couldn't figure it out. He left, I went on the internet and set it up. He did come back the next day with the same printed instructions I found on SA's web site, but come on.
> 
> 
> CSR's at Adelphia are the most clueless mass of idiots. Most people in this forum have a better idea of how their system works then they do.
> 
> 
> Over the past two years I've been with them I've had to go to their office more then once to show them they have a problem because no one at customer service believed me.
> 
> 
> Now I will give you that over the past 6 months things have been pretty good. But then again they haven't made any updates to the SA 8300 in a while, the one time they did things got so botched up they pulled it and went back to the other version.



Don't expect these things to change much. Clueless CSRs & Install techs are common across the board no matter your TV service provider. The thing I have been happiest about with TWC is the fact that I can exchange my own equipment at an office. I don't have to set aside 4 hours of time in my day waiting for the tech to arrive.


No provider does it right. The question is, what crap are you willing to accept from them before switching services?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't expect these things to change much. Clueless CSRs & Install techs are common across the board no matter your TV service provider. The thing I have been happiest about with TWC is the fact that I can exchange my own equipment at an office. I don't have to set aside 4 hours of time in my day waiting for the tech to arrive.
> 
> 
> No provider does it right. The question is, what crap are you willing to accept from them before switching services?



We can exchange our equipment with Adelphia now. I agree that most CSR's are bad but in my experience over the past 20 years in dealing with these companies no ones is as bad as Adelphia.


I don't know about now but in the years I had Direct TV I was very pleased with them. Prior to D* it was Prime Star and I liked that very much as well.


----------



## Telosian

Anyone have a definitive list or expectation of the actual HD programming which will be available with TW? Is it true we former Adelphians will lose Cinemax? What, if anything, will be added or improved as far as HD programs?


----------



## jtscherne

There is no way to know anything yet. TWC is supposedly working to get things lined up with channels that are not common to both Adelphia and Time Warner. They have already indicated that some "minor" programming may be lost.


Frankly I think the biggest issue may be ESPN2HD, given that Time Warner stilll doesn't offer it elsewhere. Of course, Adelphia doesn't offer TNTHD, etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is no way to know anything yet. TWC is supposedly working to get things lined up with channels that are not common to both Adelphia and Time Warner. They have already indicated that some "minor" programming may be lost.
> 
> 
> Frankly I think the biggest issue may be ESPN2HD, given that Time Warner stilll doesn't offer it elsewhere. Of course, Adelphia doesn't offer TNTHD, etc.



I don't see them taking ESPN2HD away for two reasons. The first is as Inundated pointed out, there is an agreement in place. This is a buy out and agreements that exist simply can't go away.


I'm not an attorney but that seems like common sense to me.


Also I don't think they can take it away because every HD customer now expects it as part of it's package. They are not stupid, they know everyone will complain if they did. I'm willing to bet the the vast majority of people who subscribe to their HD are male. Men watch sports (the majority of us).


And as you pointed out minor programming so I imagine maybe liftetime movies or some crap like that.










They ain't touching our sports.


----------



## handsworth

Haven't posted in months probably cause no new channels were coming, however with the TW change in expected Tuesday , I got wind of the programming adds and deletes. I don't know of the exact dates, but here's the skinny.


The interactive TV guide will change to the TW format. Go to TW's site to see it.


For NE Ohio here are the deletes: ESPN U., NFL Network, Weatherscan, PCNC,(?)

DMX Spanish Music Audio


Adds: CSPAN3, WUAB HD, THE TUBE, NBA TV, TNT HD.


WILL POST AS NEW INFO IS RELAYED..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *handsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Haven't posted in months probably cause no new channels were coming, however with the TW change in expected Tuesday , I got wind of the programming adds and deletes. I don't know of the exact dates, but here's the skinny.
> 
> 
> The interactive TV guide will change to the TW format. Go to TW's site to see it.
> 
> 
> For NE Ohio here are the deletes: ESPN U., NFL Network, Weatherscan, PCNC,(?)
> 
> DMX Spanish Music Audio
> 
> 
> Adds: CSPAN3, WUAB HD, THE TUBE, NBA TV, TNT HD.
> 
> 
> WILL POST AS NEW INFO IS RELAYED..



Thanks handsworth, always nice to hear from you. For those of you who may not have been around here that long handsworth's info is always on the money. Sometimes he's a day or so off on timing but you can count on it if he says it's going to happen, it happens.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh crap, they are going to switch the domain names to roadrunner.com. It will take a while it says



Where did you find this information about the domain name change for adelphia.net?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where did you find this information about the domain name change for adelphia.net?



Originally posted by Inundated it was in an article about the take over in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. I tried to copy the URL but it didn't take me there.



If you read up a few posts Inundated says it's going to change but not to roadrunner.com. It should be [email protected]


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since your email address is going to change anyway, you should make the change to a superior web based system like Google's Gmail. You can then access your mail from any location that has internet access(you can still use a POP3 client like Outlook Express if you like). It's free and they give you 2 GB of storage. I've been using it for about a year and a half and have been very satisfied. Now I can change my ISP whenever I like and never have to worry about changing my email address. Let me know if you would like me to email you an invite(currently the only way to sign up).



That's the plan I've had an account for about a year now. I just never use it but I will now.


----------



## mishmosh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> *O.T. Interconnect Cables*
> 
> I'll post this here, because the stores are only in N.E. Ohio.
> 
> Marc's Drug Stores have some very nice RCA brand interconnect cables.
> 
> 6 foot Component Video & Stereo Audio Cable #PD6DCSA for $5.99.
> 
> 3 foot Composite Video & Stereo Audio Cable #PD3SAV for $3.99.
> 
> They also have other lenghts and "S" Video cables.



I appreciate the info. I need to get me some (just got a new TV). I bought a bunch of cables from monoprice that is highly touted here but I need something for now.


----------



## mishmosh

Without reading a gazillion posts in this thread, can someone recommend indoor/outdoor antenna's for OTA reception for the main Cleveland stations?


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately they did touch sports. ESPNU isn't such a big deal, but losing the NFL Network just before pre-season (which includes some HD games) is not good, especially since they'll be showing real games later this season (in HD).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't see them taking ESPN2HD away for two reasons. The first is as Inundated pointed out, there is an agreement in place. This is a buy out and agreements that exist simply can't go away.
> 
> 
> I'm not an attorney but that seems like common sense to me.
> 
> 
> Also I don't think they can take it away because every HD customer now expects it as part of it's package. They are not stupid, they know everyone will complain if they did. I'm willing to bet the the vast majority of people who subscribe to their HD are male. Men watch sports (the majority of us).
> 
> 
> And as you pointed out minor programming so I imagine maybe liftetime movies or some crap like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They ain't touching our sports.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately they did touch sports. ESPNU isn't such a big deal, but losing the NFL Network just before pre-season (which includes some HD games) is not good, especially since they'll be showing real games later this season (in HD).



Heh heh, I knew someone would call me on that. As I'm sure your aware I am not a fan of The NFL network so no big deal to me. How many HD games are we going to miss, more the 4?


I'm quite pleased so far.


----------



## Brian81

Other than the ESPN stations, NFL Network is really one of the HD Tier stations I wanted.











Games to be lost...










Thursday, Nov. 23 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Broncos vs. Chiefs


Thursday, Nov. 30 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Ravens vs. Bengals


Thursday, Dec. 7 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Browns vs. Steelers


Thursday, Dec. 14 / 8:00 p.m. ET

49ers vs. Seahawks


Saturday, Dec. 16 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Cowboys vs. Falcons


Thursday, Dec. 21 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Vikings vs. Packers


Saturday, Dec. 23 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Chiefs vs. Raiders


Saturday, Dec. 30 / 8:00 p.m. ET

Giants vs. Redskins


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And I would assume since I live in an "Alltel" area I would not be able to get it at all. I don't even have land line service anymore they were so bad I went with Vonage.



You're likely correct...as far as I know both AT&T/SBC and Verizon are rolling out the services in their existing telephone footprint. I could be wrong. I'd also expect it to be some time before the Verizon landline folks in Northeast Ohio (i.e. Medina, etc.) see it, since that is the former GTE rural cluster and is not really attached to Cleveland or Akron, both SBC territory.


Or AT&T. Or whatever the heck they call themselves now...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *handsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Haven't posted in months probably cause no new channels were coming, however with the TW change in expected Tuesday , I got wind of the programming adds and deletes. I don't know of the exact dates, but here's the skinny.



Is ANY of this happening as soon as Tuesday, or within days/weeks? I know you said you don't have exact dates, but I'm curious if this is imminent or down the road. And do you know if the actual lineups are going to change anytime soon?


----------



## Inundated

PCNC is a Pittsburgh-based cable news channel run by WPXI/11. Us Cleveland/Akron folks don't get it, obviously.


I would be surprised if TWC didn't come up with a system-wide agreement with NFL Network at some point in the near future. With the actual in-season games showing up later in the NFL season, it'll probably be pushed up to a greater priority.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you read up a few posts Inundated says it's going to change but not to roadrunner.com. It should be [email protected]



That is correct. My sister is (firstinitiallast name)@neo.rr.com and has been since she signed up for RR.


A Google search for "@neo.rr.com" comes up with a bazillion other TWC users.










I actually hub everything through Gmail now, and have a long-standing non-ISP address forwarding there. I have an adelphia.net address, but hardly ever use it.


----------



## craigv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *handsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adds: CSPAN3, WUAB HD, THE TUBE, NBA TV, TNT HD




No Boomerang?


----------



## jtscherne

They're showing 52 pre-season games, of which 15 or so will be in HD. Most if not all of the HD games won't be live though (most of the games they are showing are on tape delay).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Other than the ESPN stations, NFL Network is really one of the HD Tier stations I wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Games to be lost...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday, Nov. 23 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Broncos vs. Chiefs
> 
> 
> Thursday, Nov. 30 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Ravens vs. Bengals
> 
> 
> Thursday, Dec. 7 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Browns vs. Steelers
> 
> 
> Thursday, Dec. 14 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> 49ers vs. Seahawks
> 
> 
> Saturday, Dec. 16 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Cowboys vs. Falcons
> 
> 
> Thursday, Dec. 21 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Vikings vs. Packers
> 
> 
> Saturday, Dec. 23 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Chiefs vs. Raiders
> 
> 
> Saturday, Dec. 30 / 8:00 p.m. ET
> 
> Giants vs. Redskins


----------



## bassguitarman

I meant the 8300. Hookbill if you think Adelphia tech's are bad wait till you start dealing with TWC. I work in the middle of their coverage area and the horror stories are legendary. And if its possbile RR is even worse. Many of my coworkers have gone to dsl since RR is so bad.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I meant the 8300. Hookbill if you think Adelphia tech's are bad wait till you start dealing with TWC. I work in the middle of their coverage area and the horror stories are legendary. And if its possbile RR is even worse. Many of my coworkers have gone to dsl since RR is so bad.



Heh Heh.....My cable company is worst then your cable company.










Only time will tell I suppose. Since I have dealt with Adelphia I'm of the opinion that it can only get better.


Since I don't have a phone line it will be rr no matter what. I will say that if there is one thing that is good about Adelphia it is their internet service. Little or no problems. Now when I compare that to what I experienced with Cincinnati Bell and their DSL they are far superior then DSL.


I was originally going to go with Altell DSL when I first moved here 2 years ago but they couldn't get a modem out to me for weeks. With Adelphia they had a modem to me in like two days.


----------



## ClevelandJax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We can exchange our equipment with Adelphia now. I agree that most CSR's are bad but in my experience over the past 20 years in dealing with these companies no ones is as bad as Adelphia.
> 
> 
> I don't know about now but in the years I had Direct TV I was very pleased with them. Prior to D* it was Prime Star and I liked that very much as well.



When I was in Rocky River I was incredibly impressed with the professional attitude, flawless installation, and near 100% uptime of my TV and HSI with Cox. Furthermore, I was able to purchase and install my own Scientific Atlanta 3270HD STB (anyone interested in buying in, let me know! I think you need to be on Cox, though).


I long for those days every time my Adelphia cablemodem's Cable LED starts blinking (which is a couple times per day).


Just my two cents..


----------



## ClevelandJax

I'm not panicking just yet, since this report comes out of Raleigh, but apparently TWC has denied some customers CableCARDs for use in their Tivos --

_"Time Warner Cable of Raleigh does not provide support for or allow TiVo devices on our cable network...CableCARDS will only be installed on cable-ready, CableCARD-slot-available television sets."
_

This would be a terrible let down for me.. I've really *REALLY* been looking forward to snatching up a Series 3 Tivo once they're released to replace the anemic SARA SA8300HD DVR I've been leasing (my hopes of being upgraded to Passport on the 8300 with the TWC acquisition were dashed long ago).

Here's the link to the full article


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandJax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not panicking just yet, since this report comes out of Raleigh, but apparently TWC has denied some customers CableCARDs for use in their Tivos --
> 
> _"Time Warner Cable of Raleigh does not provide support for or allow TiVo devices on our cable network...CableCARDS will only be installed on cable-ready, CableCARD-slot-available television sets."
> _
> 
> This would be a terrible let down for me.. I've really *REALLY* been looking forward to snatching up a Series 3 Tivo once they're released to replace the anemic SARA SA8300HD DVR I've been leasing (my hopes of being upgraded to Passport on the 8300 with the TWC acquisition were dashed long ago).
> 
> Here's the link to the full article



To the best of my knowledge they HAVE to provide the cards, if they don't arn't they violating the Cable Communications Act?


Maybe some blow hard at TW just ran his mouth off without knowing the facts.


----------



## terryfoster

Honestly, don't read too much into that TWC article. Since the S3 hasn't even been released to the public yet I wouldn't worry about this.


----------



## terryfoster

So, those of you in TWC-NEO land using HDMI->HDMI on the SA8300HD, have you been experiencing HDCP problems recently? My parents complained that they have been rebooting the box to resolve this issue the past few nights. Anybody have any suggestions on how to resolve this issue beyond rebooting or exchanging the box?


----------



## pbarach

I have my cable and internet service through Adelphia (N.E. Ohio), and yesterday I got a form letter from TWC about the takeover, effective August 1. The letter refers to a website that answers questions about the changeover: http://www.twcusoon.com/ . After entering your zip code, you get to a page with a link to FAQ's. The FAQ page for Cleveland indicates that the internet service will eventually change to Road Runner, but that email addresses will stay the same "at this time." Rates will not change as a result of the transition, but will be periodically "reviewed" as they are now. Concerning cable channel lineup: "You will continue to receive most of the channels you receive today. Time Warner Cable will notify you in advance of any changes to your channel line-up."


In summary, nothing's changing today, but anything may change in the future whenever they feel like it.


----------



## jtscherne

They have an ad in the Plain Dealer this morning, mentioning the website. It also indicates the channel changes. (Page A10)


Also, USA Today has TWO articles about how the NFL Network will be pushing hard to sign with Time Warner, especially given their games starting in November.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have my cable and internet service through Adelphia (N.E. Ohio), and yesterday I got a form letter from TWC about the takeover, effective August 1. The letter refers to a website that answers questions about the changeover: http://www.twcusoon.com/ . After entering your zip code, you get to a page with a link to FAQ's. The FAQ page for Cleveland indicates that the internet service will eventually change to Road Runner, but that email addresses will stay the same "at this time." Rates will not change as a result of the transition, but will be periodically "reviewed" as they are now. Concerning cable channel lineup: "You will continue to receive most of the channels you receive today. Time Warner Cable will notify you in advance of any changes to your channel line-up."
> 
> 
> In summary, nothing's changing today, but anything may change in the future whenever they feel like it.


----------



## hookbill

I caught the tail end on "Ask Adelphia" on channel 15 this morning. It will show again at 7:30 this evening.


The spokesperson said the SAME techs will be coming to your door. She also said the SAME local CSR'S will be taking your calls.


I only caught about two minutes so I didn't hear anything else. I'll try and watch tonight to see if anything else is mentioned. She did also mention that the transition shouldn't be any different from what it was when Adelphia took over, the bills will change, trucks will change. She said TW will do more aggresive door to door and phone marketing.


----------



## paule123

Allrighty, it's time for WVIZ to get their ass in gear. Tired of watching 16:9 crapovision letterboxed programming on the SD channel. I'm a big supporter of public television but they're not getting another dime from me until WVIZ goes full power with the HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Allrighty, it's time for WVIZ to get their ass in gear. Tired of watching 16:9 crapovision letterboxed programming on the SD channel. I'm a big supporter of public television but they're not getting another dime from me until WVIZ goes full power with the HD.



Since WVIZ does not own the tower where their full-power antenna resides, they are at the mercy of that tower's owner (I belileve it's CBS, INC/WNCX).


A similar issue hapened to WKBN in Youngstown. They eventually got that issue resolved. Today WKBN-DT has the best coverage area of any "DT" in NE Ohio! I'm not saying WVIZ will fare as well, but good things come to those that wait.










BTW: WVIZ has chosen not to run their "regular" channel in digital. The schedule for WVIZ HD it totally different, and the subchannels are only "The Ohio Channel" (or as I like to call it CSPAN of Columbus) and the "CRRS" audio-only feed (The Society of the Blind's service where they read the PD and other publications). Perhaps this is due to the temproary transmitter situation. At least WEAO runs their main channel on an SD subchannel. I can record on my DVR only from a digital source (HD or SD), so anythime there is something on PBS I want to record, I hope and pray WEAO carrys that program.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Allrighty, it's time for WVIZ to get their ass in gear. Tired of watching 16:9 crapovision letterboxed programming on the SD channel. I'm a big supporter of public television but they're not getting another dime from me until WVIZ goes full power with the HD.



I share your frustration. NE Ohio PBS stations are cursed with digital broadcast issues. I have been waiting since I bought my HD TV back in November to see some fantastic HD PBS programming like Nature, Nova, etc. WVIZ, of course, has their tower issue, which is beyond their control. WEAO has equipment and funding issues. I am still not sure whose HD signal I will see first. WVIZ was hoping to have their tower issue resolved sometime this summer. I have not heard any updates on that. WEAO was hoping to have their equipment and funding resolved months ago. We are still waiting on that. Maybe Don Freeman has an update for us?


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I share your frustration. NE Ohio PBS stations are cursed with digital broadcast issues. I have been waiting since I bought my HD TV back in November to see some fantastic HD PBS programming like Nature, Nova, etc. WVIZ, of course, has their tower issue, which is beyond their control. WEAO has equipment and funding issues. I am still not sure whose HD signal I will see first. WVIZ was hoping to have their tower issue resolved sometime this summer. I have not heard any updates on that. WEAO was hoping to have their equipment and funding resolved months ago. We are still waiting on that. Maybe Don Freeman has an update for us?



TheBlackKnight, have you tried to receive WOUC-DT, PBS from Cambridge OH? They have a very strong signal here in Canton, so you should also get them there in North Canton. Point your antenna S-SW. They have PBS-HD on 35-1 and WOUB/WOUC (ch 44) programming on 35-2. Subchannels 35-3, 4, 5 show up but there's no programmming on them.


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I share your frustration. NE Ohio PBS stations are cursed with digital broadcast issues. I have been waiting since I bought my HD TV back in November to see some fantastic HD PBS programming like Nature, Nova, etc. WVIZ, of course, has their tower issue, which is beyond their control. WEAO has equipment and funding issues. I am still not sure whose HD signal I will see first. WVIZ was hoping to have their tower issue resolved sometime this summer. I have not heard any updates on that. WEAO was hoping to have their equipment and funding resolved months ago. We are still waiting on that. Maybe Don Freeman has an update for us?



While there is certainly excellent HD programming on PBS-HD, much of it is still widescreen SD, even some Nova programs.


----------



## hookbill

I got a letter from Time Warner informing me that they will be replacing Adelphia as my cable provider.










One line cracked me up; They looked forward to bringing NEW features such as HDTV, Digital Video Recording and High Speed Internet Service. How exciting.










Does anybody read these things before they mail them?


They also give the www.twcusoon.com address that jtscherne gave us already.


----------



## Brian81

Does TWC downrez HD material? I saw the "STOP HD LITE" website and they are listed there. Frightening...


----------



## jtscherne

It's a generic letter that they're using nationwide. Believe it or not, Adelphia didn't offer HD and DVRs everywhere..



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got a letter from Time Warner informing me that they will be replacing Adelphia as my cable provider.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One line cracked me up; They looked forward to bringing NEW features such as HDTV, Digital Video Recording and High Speed Internet Service. How exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anybody read these things before they mail them?
> 
> 
> They also give the www.twcusoon.com address that jtscherne gave us already.


----------



## jtscherne

Tomorrow night's ESPN game features Cleveland at Boston. It doesn't look like it will blacked out here, so you'll be able to watch the HD broadcast if you have ESPN HD.


Also, Tuesday's game is on WKYC so it will be in HD too...


(That's assuming anyone is watching the Indians anymore!!!)


----------



## paule123

I heard an ad on WTAM this afternoon urging people to call an 800 number and "demand" that TWC carry the NFL Network. It sounded like a political ad full of doom and gloom that you're going to miss a bunch of Browns coverage if they don't put the channel back...


----------



## stuart628

up at the tribe game today (umm along with all the sweaty people) were flyers saying twc is going to ruin your football season, and to call this number, I tried to grab one on the way out but forgot.


----------



## Andrew K

I'm new to this website, but I've found some interesting information about local digital broadcasts in my area (I live in north Akron). I've been looking at the FCC's database, and I've noticed that their estimation of the coverage areas of local digital broadcasts seems to be a stretch. I have two digital receivers that pick up OTA broadcasts. One is an HDV420, and the other is built-in to my Phillips 26" TV. With those, I can receive digital broadcasts from channels 3, 5, 8, 17, 19 (although crappy signal), 43, 49, 61, and 67 (if I point my directional silver sensor in the right direction). Are there receivers that perform considerably better than others?? I've been trying for almost a year to receive Youngstown DTs 20, WKBN's new 41, and WNEO 46 in Salem, but I haven't gotten even a budge on the signal indicator. I've tried pointing the silver sensor directly toward Youngstown in different locations, but I have the disadvantage of having a small hill blocking my view toward Youngstown. I can still receive analog 21 and 27, although it's a bit snowy.


Is there anyone who lives near my location in north Akron who has had better luck, or are there any suggestions for me?? Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I heard an ad on WTAM this afternoon urging people to call an 800 number and "demand" that TWC carry the NFL Network. It sounded like a political ad full of doom and gloom that you're going to miss a bunch of Browns coverage if they don't put the channel back...




Can we call the same number in support of keeping NFL Network off TWC?










How about retaining ESPN2HD?


----------



## Brian81

NFL Network was saying today that the Turkey Day game is exclusive to the NFL Network.... So I guess I won't be watching any football that day..







They should have gotten rid of a channel like Oxygen instead.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there anyone who lives near my location in north Akron who has had better luck, or are there any suggestions for me?? Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??



Welcome, Andrew!


First things first...your problem may not be your receiver, but your antenna.


The Silver Sensor is a fine, non-amplified indoor antenna. It's just not really what you should be using to try to snare the Youngstown stations.


I live not far from you, probably a little further northwest, and I can get WKBN-DT reasonably well with an indoor antenna aimed just at the right clearing through nearby tall trees. But...it's an amplified antenna, and the placement is rather touchy. (I tried getting WKBN-DT with my own Silver Sensor, and nada.)


I can't get an ounce of signal with any indoor antenna out of WFMJ-DT, or WNEO-DT. Like you, I have little problem with the Cleveland market DTs.


The general rule with antennas is "outside and as high as possible". If you want *reliable* reception of the Youngstown DT stations over here, you'll probably have to get an outdoor antenna. There's an entire thread up in this section about antennas...you will learn a lot by reading it.


As far as the stragglers locally:


* WBNX is reportedly under construction, hoping for a September debut for WBNX-DT. Their website has more in the "Trends" section, though it does need to be updated for the fact that they have actually received their FCC construction permit.


* WVIZ-DT is reportedly still working on problems with its transmitter site, which is shared with (and owned by) CBS Radio and its WNCX/98.5. We haven't had an update on that in a long while. They continue to operate a low-powered STA off of their former studio building on Brookpark Road, but that signal is but a rumor to much of the Akron area.


* WVPX-DT has not had its construction permit approved yet by the FCC. It has had similar problems as WBNX had - coordination with Canadian authorities over signal protection of a station up there. Unlike WBNX-DT, WVPX-DT hasn't gotten out of the "application" stage yet.


There you go...hope this helps!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NFL Network was saying today that the Turkey Day game is exclusive to the NFL Network.... So I guess I won't be watching any football that day..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should have gotten rid of a channel like Oxygen instead.



I don't believe they have the ONLY Thanksgiving game...there are traditionally two of them, and I think the NFL Network now has a new, third game.


I'm not sure which one they have, though.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there anyone who lives near my location in north Akron who has had better luck, or are there any suggestions for me?? Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??



Welcome!


Innundated covered the situation pretty well. Just a note about WNEO-DT: they have a highly directional, fairly weak signal. If you look at the coverage map in the FCC database, they throw most of their signal from their transmitter near Salem to the northeast towards Y-town. No matter, anyway. They are the second half of the WEAO/WNEO (PBS45/49) public braodcasting pair. Everything that is broadcast on WNEO is simulcast on WEAO, and WEAO-DT should be an easy catch for you from North Akron. I believe their transmitter is in the same area as WVPX.


----------



## jtscherne

The NFL added an evening game on Thanksgiving. If you look some messages back, someone posted the entire NFL Network schedule, which doesn't start until Thanksgiving. The Browns will play Pittsburgh as part of the package, but it will be shown locally by Channel 8 (I think!). Of course, it won't be in HD on WJW...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe they have the ONLY Thanksgiving game...there are traditionally two of them, and I think the NFL Network now has a new, third game.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure which one they have, though.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does TWC downrez HD material? I saw the "STOP HD LITE" website and they are listed there. Frightening...



Simple answer, no. More complicated answer, as far as Stop HD Lite says TWC lowers the bitrate of some of the stations in a limited number of cities. I'm pretty sure this isn't happening currently in NEO, Dayton, or Cinci.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NFL Network was saying today that the Turkey Day game is exclusive to the NFL Network.... So I guess I won't be watching any football that day..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should have gotten rid of a channel like Oxygen instead.


----------



## jtscherne

Just to make things clear: here is the Thanksgiving schedule


Miami at Detroit 12:30 p.m. - CBS

Tampa Bay at Dallas 4:15 p.m. - Fox

Denver at Kansas City 8:00 p.m. - NFL Network


----------



## jtscherne

Time Warner will be holding a press conference tomorrow at the Jacobs Field Terrace Club, at which they are expected to reveal more information about their plans for Northeast Ohio.


After today's transfer, NE Ohio will become the third-largest market for the company. There's an article about the transfer in today's Crain's Cleveland Business (which is not available to non-subscribers on their web site).


----------



## Andrew K

Hey Inundated, Thanks for the advice. I used to be able to receive WFMJ-DT with my silver sensor when I lived in Akron just west of the Chapel Hill Mall, but now I live at the edge of the Merriman Valley (just a bit down Portage Trail). Now this terrain is what I believe is the primary cause for the weakened Youngstown signals. My problem is that I can't have an outdoor antenna because of my apartment, but I'll be moving to where I will have some decent attic space to work with.


I wanted to ask what anyone would recommend for outdoor antennas (for an attic). I have a powerful Radio Shack amplifier that I have yet to experiment with.


----------



## azporter

I've just moved back to the area from Arizona and am wondering about the state of 5C encryption on TWC's network as well as the STBs in use and their firewire status. I previously was on the Cox/Phoenix network recording to my mythtv box via an SA3250 with no serious problems.


Is anybody recording the non-premium digital channels and HDTV tier via 1394 on TWC? That's the one killer feature that made me go the cable route in Phoenix. I'm hoping it works as nice in this area. I'd hate to have to give up timeshifting ESPNHD on my myth box.


----------



## hookbill

They're putting in some culverts on my street and wouldn't you know it they hit a cable. I called it in and said it probably was reported already. The CSR checked and said no it wasn't and "someone will be out there today" as they did have an opening.







I explained that this was a major underground cable and I may not be home. She said that's fine and asked me who cut the cable. I said I assumed Township workers.


10 minutes later I was taking my cat to the vet and there was an Adelphia truck out there working on it. By the time I got home it was fixed.


The left hand still doesn't know what the right hand is doing.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Inundated, Thanks for the advice. I used to be able to receive WFMJ-DT with my silver sensor when I lived in Akron just west of the Chapel Hill Mall, but now I live at the edge of the Merriman Valley (just a bit down Portage Trail). Now this terrain is what I believe is the primary cause for the weakened Youngstown signals. My problem is that I can't have an outdoor antenna because of my apartment, but I'll be moving to where I will have some decent attic space to work with.
> 
> 
> I wanted to ask what anyone would recommend for outdoor antennas (for an attic). I have a powerful Radio Shack amplifier that I have yet to experiment with.



Hey andrew do you live in the appartments behind where wildlife gardens, and Bobs video galore was?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey andrew do you live in the appartments behind where wildlife gardens, and Bobs video galore was?



Are you talking about where I used to live behind the Chapel Hill Plaza?? That was Jean Ave. where I used to live.


I live in the Timber Top apartments now. They're right off Portage trail before you go down in the valley. I haven't heard of any wildlife gardens.


By the way, I wanted to say that I tried my silver sensor with an amplifier, and I was able to get the signal indicator the budge just a bit for WKBN-DT 41. I might have enough to work with here if I go for an outdoor antenna. I have to say that I was quite surprised to get anything since I thought the terrain would make it impossible.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in the Timber Top apartments now. They're right off Portage trail before you go down in the valley. I haven't heard of any wildlife gardens.
> 
> 
> By the way, I wanted to say that I tried my silver sensor with an amplifier, and I was able to get the signal indicator the budge just a bit for WKBN-DT 41. I might have enough to work with here.



oh okay right by papa joes, I probably haves asked you that question before, I just wondered as thats where I grew up, down in the heart of the valley (1344 N.Portage Path). good luck andrew as I always enjoyed that channel as a backup for when woio would be out for me!


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> oh okay right by papa joes, I probably haves asked you that question before, I just wondered as thats where I grew up, down in the heart of the valley (1344 N.Portage Path). good luck andrew as I always enjoyed that channel as a backup for when woio would be out for me!



Yes, I live on Snowfall Spur. It's not in the valley, but it's not at the top of the hill either. Where are you picking up this WKBN-DT at??


----------



## stuart628

Mogadore, with this antenna
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family 


its laying in my attic, and I get a pretty decent signal from WKBN with a amp. took me awhile to get everything figured out with some questions posted on here, but I am good to go.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Inundated, Thanks for the advice. I used to be able to receive WFMJ-DT with my silver sensor when I lived in Akron just west of the Chapel Hill Mall, but now I live at the edge of the Merriman Valley (just a bit down Portage Trail). Now this terrain is what I believe is the primary cause for the weakened Youngstown signals. My problem is that I can't have an outdoor antenna because of my apartment, but I'll be moving to where I will have some decent attic space to work with.



Good luck with that. I'm down at the bottom of the valley and Youngstown is utterly out of reach for me, though I get all of Cleveland, except WVIZ rather reliably with my HDTVI, though it was a rough time of it to get WKYC and WOIO at the same time.


Oddly, my receiver has been getting just a slight edge of WEAO, which I found odd, seeing it is at a much different angle than my antenna is pointing.


----------



## Andrew K

If anyone was wondering, this is what I was told about why PBS 45/49 doesn't have their HD channel now.
_

"Unfortunately, we need additional equipment to be able to broadcast in high def and right now our budget won't stretch that far. And we cannot just broadcast what PBS feeds, without our own breaks, without paying a lot of money in licensing fees.


I'm sorry that I still don't have good news for you. We are planning on broadcasting in High Definition again, but we just aren't sure when we will be able to afford to.


Thanks again for your patience.


Pat Weed"_


----------



## Inundated

Andrew, hi, neighbor!










I'm not far from you, but on the other side of the hill in the Falls. Thus, I don't have that hill as an obstruction between me and Youngstown...but I still have to position the amplified antenna properly and the tuner barely hangs onto a signal re: WKBN-DT.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Andrew, hi, neighbor!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not far from you, but on the other side of the hill in the Falls. Thus, I don't have that hill as an obstruction between me and Youngstown...but I still have to position the amplified antenna properly and the tuner barely hangs onto a signal re: WKBN-DT.



What kind of antenna setup did you say that you were using?? I was thinking of using my amplifier with this antenna-

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search 


I'm not sure how much different this would be compared to the silver sensor, but I like the fact that it's for UHF only, and I wouldn't have to worry about the bulky VHF part. Does anyone know anything about this or bigger antennas that are identical?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna setup did you say that you were using?? I was thinking of using my amplifier with this antenna-
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how much different this would be compared to the silver sensor, but I like the fact that it's for UHF only, and I wouldn't have to worry about the bulky VHF part. Does anyone know anything about this or bigger antennas that are identical?



thats the same end I have on my antenna I showed you earlier, and at one time I got youngstown in at 80, with clevelands coming in at 95 here in mogadore.


----------



## paule123

STO has a newly redesigned website, additional programming and a discussion forum now. Doesn't look like their new shows are in HD, though...

http://www.sportstimeohio.com/whatson.php


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thats the same end I have on my antenna I showed you earlier, and at one time I got youngstown in at 80, with clevelands coming in at 95 here in mogadore.



When you use 80 and 95, what do those numbers represent as far as the signal??


----------



## stuart628

those are on a scale of 100 on the HR10-250, thats the quality of signal, anything below I think 55 i have heard is too low for picture/audio.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO has a newly redesigned website, additional programming and a discussion forum now. Doesn't look like their new shows are in HD, though...
> 
> http://www.sportstimeohio.com/whatson.php



At this point, only the Indians games will be in HD. The equipment/cameras/etc. are all there at Jacobs Field, and back at the WKYC HD control room. (That's what let them do that high school baseball game there once in HD.)


----------



## Inundated

WUAB-DT, the 1080i version, is showing up on my Fusion HDTV card on Adelphia-becoming-TWC at this hour...this is a different feed than the 480i digital substitution channel 6, and is showing 1080i on my software...though it's obviously an upconvert outside of UPN programming.


----------



## rRooster

TNTHD . the tube, WUAB HD , NBATV added on SA 8300 , message about NFL network wanting more money on that channel


----------



## craigv

TWC is updating Adelphia quickly.


HD Channels added so far:TNT,UPN


SD Channels: TUBE,CURRENT,CSPAN3


Also they have changed the guide logo to TWC and added a bunch of new VOD content


----------



## jtscherne

I emailed Les yesterday about the status of his Adelphia show. He stated that he won't know anything about its future for a few weeks.


----------



## hookbill

Wow, just saw a commercial on WJW from Time Warner a two part statement. Adelphia is now Time Warner, Comcast is now Time Warner.


----------



## hookbill

I see TNT HD on the list but when I tune it it's a gray screen showing 480i on my SA 8300. Can anyone actually view this? Also what the heck is The Tube doing in the 700's, it's not in HD?


I couldn't even find NFL and NBA was a dark screen.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also what the heck is The Tube doing in the 700's, it's not in HD?



Are your local digital broadcast stations in the 700s? TWC groups all the sub channels with the main channel. So we have our Weather Plus channel listed right after our NBC affiliate, our Tube listed right after our Fox affiliate, etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are your local digital broadcast stations in the 700s? TWC groups all the sub channels with the main channel. So we have our Weather Plus channel listed right after our NBC affiliate, our Tube listed right after our Fox affiliate, etc.



No, HD stations are in the 700's. It get's a bit tricky after that, digital broadcast for local stations are on the actual channel - but if you don't have a converter and your coming straight off the cable you actually view stations in the 800's.


The Tube is on 720, PBS is between FOX HD (708) and The Tube.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, HD stations are in the 700's. It get's a bit tricky after that, digital broadcast for local stations are on the actual channel - but if you don't have a converter and your coming straight off the cable you actually view stations in the 800's.
> 
> 
> The Tube is on 720, PBS is between FOX HD (708) and The Tube.



Sorry I wasn't clear. So the local digital broadcasts carried by TWC, the ones that will be alive after 2009 (not to be confused with digital simulcasts that replace their analog counterparts), are available in the 700s?


Is 709 occupied by PBS? Then it makes sense that they would put the tube somewhere in the 700s until they can move PBS to place it at 709 (if they decide to move PBS).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry I wasn't clear. So the local digital broadcasts carried by TWC, the ones that will be alive after 2009 (not to be confused with digital simulcasts that replace their analog counterparts), are available in the 700s?
> 
> 
> Is 709 occupied by PBS? Then it makes sense that they would put the tube somewhere in the 700s until they can move PBS to place it at 709 (if they decide to move PBS).



I think your correct. PBS is on 710, so I think 709 should be available now. I don't know why they stuck The Tube on 720. Our digital NBC is 703 but Weather Plus is on 183.


Anyone locally getting TNT HD yet? I still have a gray screen.


----------



## rRooster

TNT-HD was on for like 10 minutes at 1 am this morning haven't seen since











I'm impressed they've done this so quickly


----------



## qsezz

It's official boys we are twc in the inland empire in southern california as of 2:00 a.m tuesday morning

have added more hd channels and more vod content and for the next week more spanish channels and will re-arrange channel line up for the entire foot print. was a employee of adelphia but now twc employee which i'm lookinf forward driving new van within 30-60 from now!!


----------



## hookbill

First she got it right, welcome to Time Warner Cable. I gave my info. I asked if TNT HD would be available today. She said, "Sir right now we have made no changes to our line up. You will be notified when we do and what changes are available." So being the sensative guy that I am I POLITELY pointed out to her that there were no programs both standard and HD that were available today. She said, "Yes sir, but we have still not made any changes yet."










I said, "So even though I see new things officially nothing has change." She said correct.


She then asked if there was anything else she could do. I said no thank you. She then said, "Thank you for calling Adelphia, have a good day."

















Pete Townsend: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


----------



## intrac

Now that the Detroit HD locals are on Dish, does anybody know when Cleveland goes HD. I can't get a reply from Dish.


I hope it doesn't go on 119k when it happens.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of antenna setup did you say that you were using?? I was thinking of using my amplifier with this antenna-
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how much different this would be compared to the silver sensor, but I like the fact that it's for UHF only, and I wouldn't have to worry about the bulky VHF part. Does anyone know anything about this or bigger antennas that are identical?



I just put up one of those Radio Shack Model: U-75R Catalog #: 15-2160 UHF-only antennas and now get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Southeast Parma *without any amplification!*. I previously used a Silver Sensor but only got WKBN-DT in the evening.


The other day I was watching digital TV stations from Pittsburgh: WPXI, WQED, and WPMY on top of all four Youngstown stations. (Ironicaly when all these stations came in, WKBN was weaker). I'm still tweaking the location of the antenna, I'm shooting through some distant trees. WYTV is the weakest Youngstown station, however WKBN-DT is the most desirable come football season.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see TNT HD on the list but when I tune it it's a gray screen showing 480i on my SA 8300. Can anyone actually view this? Also what the heck is The Tube doing in the 700's, it's not in HD?
> 
> 
> I couldn't even find NFL and NBA was a dark screen.



The Tube in HD :rotfl: Heck that network is barely SD









I did get to see a few minutes of the Tube from Pitsburg's WPMY, there appeared to be less pixillation, although I still think the source for the tube is a video server designed for streaming video over the internet (i.e. not broadcast quality). It sure looks like streaming video on WUAB-DT2.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Tube in HD :rotfl: Heck that network is barely SD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did get to see a few minutes of the Tube from Pitsburg's WPMY, there appeared to be less pixillation, although I still think the source for the tube is a video server designed for streaming video over the internet (i.e. not broadcast quality). It sure looks like streaming video on WUAB-DT2.



Oh, I know it's not in HD. I was asking what the heck it was doing in the HD tier.


----------



## jtscherne

Dish Network keeps this information close to the vest. For one thing they have to sign new contracts with local broadcasters before they can pass along the HD signals.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intrac* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now that the Detroit HD locals are on Dish, does anybody know when Cleveland goes HD. I can't get a reply from Dish.
> 
> 
> I hope it doesn't go on 119k when it happens.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dish Network keeps this information close to the vest. For one thing they have to sign new contracts with local broadcasters before they can pass along the HD signals.



also they say to contact your local engineers as they are the people they will be working with, BUT!!!! there are alot of reports saying the engineers were blindsided and didnt even know they were on DIsh.


----------



## hookbill

WOIO lost it's court case. No word yet on who will get the Browns.

http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/pds...08.html#167483


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO lost it's court case. No word yet on who will get the Browns.
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/pds...08.html#167483



From the link, above:


> Quote:
> McMonagle said he considered the station's request and determined it wasn't warranted. He said his decision did not address the standing of the remainder of the lawsuit, in which Channel 19 seeks compensatory and punitive damages exceeding $25,000.



$25,000 is a drop-in-the-bucket for the Browns to rid themselves of WOIO. Too bad they can't change divisions so that FOX gets the majority of the regular season Browns games


----------



## kosar1985

Does anyone who lives in the Medina area have armstrong because I am thinking of switching.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From the link, above:
> 
> $25,000 is a drop-in-the-bucket for the Browns to rid themselves of WOIO. Too bad they can't change divisions so that FOX gets the majority of the regular season Browns games



I don't know about that...it will taken nearly to the 9:00 mark in the first quarter of the first game for the dawg pound beer sales to make a $25,000 profit!


----------



## rRooster

Anybody actually getting TNTHD yet or just black screen?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody actually getting TNTHD yet or just black screen?



I still got the blank screen and I'm anxious to get this. The Closer is on tonight and I want to see what it looks like in HD. It's a repeat of yesterday so I already have it recorded but who wants to watch SD if HD is available.


When Adelphia was running the show the blank screen usually meant it was ready to start broadcasting. They already have screen guide info.


C'mon TW. Quit teasing! I've already got shows scheduled for recording.


----------



## craigv

i was flipping through the HD channels and i noticed on ch 798HDBON, TNTHD is on there


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i was flipping through the HD channels and i noticed on ch 798HDBON, TNTHD is on there



Yeah, it sure as heck is! They may just be testing it there, I noticed the sound is out of synch with the picture.


Strange that it's on that channel though. I guess since the Tribe is on WKYC they felt that's a good place to test it, but why not just put it on the channel it's suppose to be on?


----------



## rRooster

TNTHD is on in my neck of the woods now (ashtabula county)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TNTHD is on in my neck of the woods now (ashtabula county)



Yeah, I saw it on HD BON and the picture froze. Just checked it again and it's on here too, in Bainbridge.


----------



## craigv

Apparently they will add WNEO HD soon, its listed as CH715 on their new channel lineup page

http://www.timewarnercable.com/corpo...ellineups.html


----------



## Inundated

BTW, the Browns also came to an agreement with WOIO to pay them off, so the hunt's on for a new pre-season station.


Of course, the pre-season games are unlikely to be in HD, no matter who gets them.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago i posted a problem with WKYC 3 on DTV LIL hd. The problem was the picture seemed to be in slow motion well now on DTV channel 96 hd which is STO all the games seem to be in slow motion on there too. I spoke with a DTV CSR today who said they have no other complaints logged but will send this problem to the engineers if you have this problem please call DTV and report it the CSR said if they get a few complaints they will take care of the problem asap. I know this isnt just my problem because i have two friends who are having the same problem.



I called yesterday and reported it as well. The CSR said he had no other reports. Go Figure.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, the Browns also came to an agreement with WOIO to pay them off, so the hunt's on for a new pre-season station.
> 
> 
> Of course, the pre-season games are unlikely to be in HD, no matter who gets them.



Inundated, you really have got to read some of the posts ahead of yours.









http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8120208


----------



## qsezz

I'm an Actual Tech over here in the inland empire in southern california. most of the area that have bandwith available in ths system will have tnt hd and other hd.

I heard tnt hd on mid states in the u.s and puerto rico have issues with bandwith and trying to re-arrange or remove other channels to put those hd channels in place, in some cases systems that have 550 system need to upgrade to at least 750 or 860!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated, you really have got to read some of the posts ahead of yours.



Not really, I was updating the story to note that after the court ruling, WOIO and the Browns came to a settlement (financial) and officially terminated the contract. The court ruling against 19 did not do that, but did pave the way for that...


----------



## Inundated

More TWC stuff - as someone noted above, the OnDemand listing has indeed been beefed up by TWC on the ex-Adelphia system, especially in the "Free" area. MANY more OnDemand offerings from various cable channels are now available. It's about 3 times what Adelphia had there.


Re: Adelphia/TWC and Les Levine's show - tonight, he thanked Time Warner for "letting us continue" the show. As far as I know, it is only continuing on the ex-Adelphia 15, and isn't going on any other TWC systems. Like the rest of the former Adelphia graphics, his show now sports the TWC logos...


----------



## bassguitarman

Woke up this morning in Copley and surprise surprise no cable or internet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Woke up this morning in Copley and surprise surprise no cable or internet.



Same here in Bainbridge. Well, I actually saw it crash I had the news on. Called TW and message was already there saying they knew there was a problem.


As or right now most everything is back up, a few HD channels are still not on. Oddly TNT HD is up, I'm showing all local HD, HBO HD ESPN and both INHD's are down. ESPN2 is up.


----------



## bassguitarman

Incidently the quality of the analog channels is VERY POOR compared to Adelphia. My ota antenna is better on the locals and I notice poor quality on Speed, SCI-FI etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Incidently the quality of the analog channels is VERY POOR compared to Adelphia. My ota antenna is better on the locals and I notice poor quality on Speed, SCI-FI etc.



I don't think they have changed any of the equipment, and I believe the same people are still at the helm. However, I thought I noticed an IMPROVEMENT on the Indians sound quality in Dolby on channel 3. It seemed alot more surround like. I haven't seen any difference in analog quality.


I'm still not getting HD locals, ESPN, PBS, and both INHD's. Anybody else receiving these?


----------



## CMB

I live in Erie, PA (about 90 miles from Cleve). Do you think I would be able to receive the Cleve channels via Directv (both SD and HD) if I used an Cleve or Ashtabula address?


----------



## hookbill

All HD channels in my area on TW are now back up.


----------



## lefkas

Does anyone know what would happen if you hooked up an external QAM tuner to an analog television set through component video cables ? I know that, unlike an HDTV monitor, it would not pick up unscrambled hi-def programming, but what about unscrambled standard digital channels ? I know that many people send their digital satellite signals into an analog TV and still get a better (if not a true digital) picture. Would not the same concept apply here ?


----------



## mobgre

While it is nice that they added TNTHD and WUABHD, My only concern and question is "Will we keep all our other HD channels????? I know that Adelphia wasn't the greatest at times but they were pretty consistent the last year. I have heard a number of horror stories from friends who have TWC. I just hope things get even better instead of worse.


----------



## hookbill

I hate to say this but if you go to www.nflgetreal.com the form Time Warner wants us to sign is to allow them to put the NFL Network into a sports package. Which means that if you want this, you will pay more money.


At first I thought bad idea but now I'm thinking why not? Why should someone else have to pay for something that I may want but they don't?


I think it's geared to the "cafeteria cable" type thinking that seems to be approaching. Hopefully we will be able to purchase what we want on cable and not have to pay for everything else.


We, Lifeline, Asia, Japan, all this other stuff in espanol that I have no interest in. Let others pay for it who do.


Just a thought.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While it is nice that they added TNTHD and WUABHD, My only concern and question is "Will we keep all our other HD channels????? I know that Adelphia wasn't the greatest at times but they were pretty consistent the last year. I have heard a number of horror stories from friends who have TWC. I just hope things get even better instead of worse.



I wouldn't worry, every indication is nothing should change other then what they have told us.


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All HD channels in my area on TW are now back up.



Just wondering

Where did TNT HD end up ???

Thanks


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hate to say this but if you go to www.nflgetreal.com the form Time Warner wants us to sign is to allow them to put the NFL Network into a sports package. Which means that if you want this, you will pay more money.



This form does not appear to be provided by TWC. I did a look up on this domain name in it was registered/created on 7/18/2006 by Ketchum Inc. It would seem to me that TWC could register their own domain names just like timewarnercable.com. I'm not saying this isn't legit, it just seems fishy.


Provide personal info at your own risk.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what would happen if you hooked up an external QAM tuner to an analog television set through component video cables ? I know that, unlike an HDTV monitor, it would not pick up unscrambled hi-def programming, but what about unscrambled standard digital channels ? I know that many people send their digital satellite signals into an analog TV and still get a better (if not a true digital) picture. Would not the same concept apply here ?



Sure it does. Heck, you can even watch the non-encrypted HD programming available on your cable system. Just make sure to set the output on the STB to 480i and you should be all set. This will make the STB take any HD picture or any digital picture (generally 480p) and convert it to 480i which is what your TV accepts. There could be a couple other caveats I haven't thought of, but if all else fails, use s-video.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just wondering
> 
> Where did TNT HD end up ???
> 
> Thanks



In my area, channel 779.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Last night was the first time I did not see any "chroma pulsing" on WOIO-DT on my 921. Also "The Tube" on WUAB-DT 43-2 looks much better (the streaming video-like pixillation is almost completely gone).


I know some of us (me included) have posted complaints about these two Raycom stations. I did not want to let these improvements go without passing on my complements to the Raycom engineering staff. What ever you guys did recently has greatly improved the picture quality on both stations! Thanks again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This form does not appear to be provided by TWC. I did a look up on this domain name in it was registered/created on 7/18/2006 by Ketchum Inc. It would seem to me that TWC could register their own domain names just like timewarnercable.com. I'm not saying this isn't legit, it just seems fishy.
> 
> 
> Provide personal info at your own risk.



Well, the web site is listed along with the explanation of why the NFL Channel is no longer available right on Channel 778 which use to be the NFL HD channel, so unless someone has hacked into the cable broadcast system which I strongly doubt I got to believe it's a legit site.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This form does not appear to be provided by TWC. I did a look up on this domain name in it was registered/created on 7/18/2006 by Ketchum Inc. It would seem to me that TWC could register their own domain names just like timewarnercable.com. I'm not saying this isn't legit, it just seems fishy.
> 
> 
> Provide personal info at your own risk.



Ketchum is a PR firm for the cablecos. They were involved with setting up the www.makethemplayfair.com website whining about the high cost of STO back in March.


Now c'mon, it really doesn't surprise you that a cable company doesn't know how to register their own domain name, does it?


----------



## gzath

"Browns reach deal with FSN Ohio



11:28 a.m.


The Cleveland Browns announced today that FSN Ohio will be the regional cable home for the team.


The announcement was made by Steve Liverani, Vice President and General Manager, FSN Ohio, and Bill Bonsiewicz, Vice President of Communications for the Cleveland Browns.


FSN Ohio plans three shows for the upcoming season, including a 30-minute, nightly training camp show. The show will be hosted by FSN Ohio's Michael Reghi and former Browns quarterback Mike Pagel and will also feature linebacker Andra Davis. It will air nightly at 7 p.m. during training camp.


FSN Ohio will also carry live coverage of Romeo Crennel's weekly press conferences every Monday (beginning Sept. 11) and will host Browns Table, a weekly roundtable premiering on Sept. 14. "



Looks like FSN Ohio is trying to bounce back from the loss of the Tribe by scoring this and the Cavs in 2007.


As far as I'm concerned the current WOIO management can take a hike ... as I'm sure there advertisers are.


FSN will have their own training camp show daily, too. I may switch to watch it over STO because 1) it'll be on earlier 2) it'll be at a set time (DVR purposes). The STO show is usually dependent on when the Tribe game ends which is a bear to try and set the programming.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Browns reach deal with FSN Ohio
> 
> 
> 
> 11:28 a.m.
> 
> 
> The Cleveland Browns announced today that FSN Ohio will be the regional cable home for the team.
> 
> 
> The announcement was made by Steve Liverani, Vice President and General Manager, FSN Ohio, and Bill Bonsiewicz, Vice President of Communications for the Cleveland Browns.
> 
> 
> FSN Ohio plans three shows for the upcoming season, including a 30-minute, nightly training camp show. The show will be hosted by FSN Ohio's Michael Reghi and former Browns quarterback Mike Pagel and will also feature linebacker Andra Davis. It will air nightly at 7 p.m. during training camp.
> 
> 
> FSN Ohio will also carry live coverage of Romeo Crennel's weekly press conferences every Monday (beginning Sept. 11) and will host Browns Table, a weekly roundtable premiering on Sept. 14. "
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like FSN Ohio is trying to bounce back from the loss of the Tribe by scoring this and the Cavs in 2007.
> 
> 
> As far as I'm concerned the current WOIO management can take a hike ... as I'm sure there advertisers are.
> 
> 
> FSN will have their own training camp show daily, too. I may switch to watch it over STO because 1) it'll be on earlier 2) it'll be at a set time (DVR purposes). The STO show is usually dependent on when the Tribe game ends which is a bear to try and set the programming.



First, where did you get this from? Not that I doubt the authenticity of what you are providing but I would have liked to see a link.


Second, unless I'm blind I didn't see anything in there that says that FSN Ohio is broadcasting the pre season games, which I believe your title indicated.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First, where did you get this from? Not that I doubt the authenticity of what you are providing but I would have liked to see a link.
> 
> 
> Second, unless I'm blind I didn't see anything in there that says that FSN Ohio is broadcasting the pre season games, which I believe your title indicated.


 http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/ 


there ya go hookbill, front page third story down, dosent say anything about preseason. Reghi out as cavs voice is first story!


----------



## jtscherne

Hookbill is right though. The original message has the title:


FSN Scores the Browns Telecasts



That certainly implies games, not just interview programs, etc.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> there ya go hookbill, front page third story down, dosent say anything about preseason. Reghi out as cavs voice is first story!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> there ya go hookbill, front page third story down, dosent say anything about preseason. Reghi out as cavs voice is first story!



As a matter of fact it does indeed talk about preseason and it says that FSN OHIO will not be the broadcaster of preseason games as the NFL requires that those games be carried ota.


And thank you for the link.


----------



## stuart628

sorry just scanned through the article, I even knew that NFL requires ALL football games to be carried Over the Air for the Local teams.


----------



## HDTD

I've been out of town, wondering if former Adelphia, now TWC/TiVo users have received a programming/channel update? Thanks.


----------



## Inundated

I must have slept through the TW-ex-Adelphia outage. I've seen no problems.


Everything that's supposed to be up here is up, including TNT-HD and WUAB-HD, C-SPAN 3 and even NBA TV, though that's supposed to be in a Digital Plus tier I don't pay for (and I don't get any other Digital Plus channels).


Not only is WUAB-HD on my QAM USB HDTV tuner, TNT-HD is also on there! I don't think that'll last.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been out of town, wondering if former Adelphia, now TWC/TiVo users have received a programming/channel update? Thanks.



I haven't gotten the TiVo update yet.


Tribune Media Services must not have propogated it yet. The old Adelphia lineup still exists on Zap2It.com, which carries the same TMS data as TiVo does.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact it does indeed talk about preseason and it says that FSN OHIO will not be the broadcaster of preseason games as the NFL requires that those games be carried ota.
> 
> 
> And thank you for the link.



There's an update now, as the OTA game rights will possibly be announced tomorrow.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...a-fallout.html 


It looks like either 3 or 5 will get it.


----------



## bassguitarman

My TWC was back on and fine last night.

I havent had time to evaluate any improvements to the analog channels.


----------



## jtscherne

FCC Orders Time Warner Cable to Reinstate NFL Network


Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Federal Communications Commission ordered Time Warner Cable to reinstate the NFL Network on some systems after the No. 2 U.S. cable operator pulled the channel in a contract dispute.


Time Warner stopped carrying NFL Network on Aug. 1, one day after acquiring the systems from Adelphia Communications Corp. and Comcast Corp. That violated rules requiring 30 days notice, the National Football League alleges, according to an e-mailed statement from the FCC today.


Time Warner's move was part of a negotiating tactic, the FCC said, finding there was ``sufficient prospect of success'' in the NFL's complaint to justify the order. Subscribers are affected in cities including Cleveland, Dallas and Buffalo, New York, all of which have NFL teams. The NFL Network plans to show 54 preseason games and eight regular-season primetime games this season.


``The commission is concerned about the impact of the dispute and potential impact of the NFL Network being removed from the new systems that Time Warner purchased in the Adelphia transaction,'' FCC Chairman Kevin Martin told reporters today at the FCC's monthly public meeting.


The FCC gave Time Warner an Aug. 15 deadline to respond to the NFL's complaint. The commission put the issue on an accelerated schedule aimed at reaching a final decision by the end of the month.


``This order was issued without offering us the opportunity to respond to the NFL Network's allegations,'' Time Warner said in a statement e-mailed from spokesman Mark Harrad. `` We believe the FCC's decision is wrong and we are considering our options.''


Contract Dispute


The FCC said Time Warner may have acted as part of a negotiating tactic.


``Based on the current record, it does not appear that Time Warner objects in principle to carrying the NFL Network,'' according to the FCC statement. ``Rather, Time Warner merely wishes to carry it on different terms than those agreed to by the relevant cable systems' prior owner.''


``We appreciate the FCC's speedy action in response to our petition,'' NFL Network spokesman Seth Palansky in Culver City, California, said in an e-mailed statement. ``We look forward to continuing discussions with Time Warner regarding long-term carriage of the NFL Network.''


Shares of New York-based Time Warner fell 10 cents to $16.57 at 1:11 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. They declined 4.4 percent this year before today.


----------



## hookbill

Well, for the second time since TW took over Adelphia I had an outage. This time my internet and cable went out at 10:20 am and returned just now around 3:30 pm.


I haven't had a chance to turn on my tv so I have no idea of what has actually been restored. I just noticed the internet was back up.


Not a good start for TW.


----------



## hookbill

OK, everything is up. Just checked NFL Network and nothing has changed as of yet, that message is still up there.


God, I hope putting NFL Network back on doesn't cause another outage for me. Each outage I've had this week has been longer then the one before.


----------



## grayta

Hmmm... with TWC NEO doing all this switching it may be time to remap and see what new freebies have popped up on the ol' QAM tuner.


----------



## jtscherne

Since I don't think the order gave them a deadline, I expect TWC to review their possible legal options before putting things back.


By the way, shouldn't this make them put ESPNU back too?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, everything is up. Just checked NFL Network and nothing has changed as of yet, that message is still up there.
> 
> 
> God, I hope putting NFL Network back on doesn't cause another outage for me. Each outage I've had this week has been longer then the one before.


----------



## hookbill

FOX 8 just announced WKYC got the Browns.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## Inundated

FOX 8 was never really in the battle for the games, so it doesn't surprise me they went ahead and made it a news item. I wonder what WOIO said about it?









http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...ts-browns.html 


It'll be Sam Rosen, Bernie Kosar and Brian Brennan in the booth for the pre-season games.


And since we're here - I'd be surprised if the games were in HD. WKYC is indeed into HD with news and the Indians games, but they've gotta scramble to get the games on even in SD by Thursday!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not a good start for TW.



I bet very little of this has to do with any changes TWC has made, and you'd probably have had the same problem when it was Adelphia. The former Adelphia system is basically intact give or take the minor channel lineup changes. It's the same equipment, for one.


Here, knock on wood, I have had no problems since early Tuesday AM. If there was an outage the other day, I slept through it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FOX 8 was never really in the battle for the games, so it doesn't surprise me they went ahead and made it a news item. I wonder what WOIO said about it?



I still watch WOIO just before I go to sleep at night.














I haven't heard them mention anything about it.


To WJW's credit when the story first broke the other day about WOIO loosing the law suit they said at that time when it's announced what station gets the Browns games they would let us know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I bet very little of this has to do with any changes TWC has made, and you'd probably have had the same problem when it was Adelphia. The former Adelphia system is basically intact give or take the minor channel lineup changes. It's the same equipment, for one.
> 
> 
> Here, knock on wood, I have had no problems since early Tuesday AM. If there was an outage the other day, I slept through it.



Well actually I've had 3 outages, one caused by Bainbridge workers when it was Adelphia on the 29th and the other two after TW took over.


Incidentally one of the workers told me they found out the reason for the outage yesterday was a blown transformer. I don't believe the outage today was as wide spread because they didn't have the message informing about outages at all, I was informed by a CSR - of course after first telling me they would have to send a tech out, and btw first available appointment was TUESDAY!







I'm glad it was an outage, I'd have been p.o.'d no internet or TV for 5 days?


----------



## MusicAngel99

Has anyone heard a time-table on when Dish Network might be getting Cleveland HD locals available? (Yes I know I can get them with an Off-air antennae, but I don't want to install that quite yet)


Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## stuart628

nothing from dish network, you can check two sites,


satelliteguys.us

and also dbstalk.com


those will have info


----------



## alfbinet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard a time-table on when Dish Network might be getting Cleveland HD locals available? (Yes I know I can get them with an Off-air antennae, but I don't want to install that quite yet)
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!



It seems that Cleveland has become the ugly stepchild of Dish. I wouldn't expect it until the end of the year or early next? This is frustrating for me because even though I can get a great signal from all the networks OTA I live near the airport. It all depends on the time of day and season of the year whether I get pixalation, audio dropouts or total freeze and loss of signal. I think this is multipath issues.


----------



## jtscherne

Dish does not give timetables for any locals, other than the most general information.


The link below is a list of Dish HD locals and the projected cities, but there are no dates given.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54667 


Remember that Dish has to sign carry agreements with each station, so that would definitely make a difference as to speed. For example, I think DirecTV still doesn't have all the local Cleveland stations in HD.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard a time-table on when Dish Network might be getting Cleveland HD locals available? (Yes I know I can get them with an Off-air antennae, but I don't want to install that quite yet)
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe the outage today was as wide spread because they didn't have the message informing about outages at all, I was informed by a CSR - of course after first telling me they would have to send a tech out, and btw first available appointment was TUESDAY!



Adelphia, TWC, whoever...it's still a cable company, and some things never change.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Remember that Dish has to sign carry agreements with each station, so that would definitely make a difference as to speed. For example, I think DirecTV still doesn't have all the local Cleveland stations in HD.



As far as I know, that's still the case. The world infamous WOIO/19 is the straggler here...they have 3, 5 and 8. DirecTV, as far as I know, isn't putting up UPN/WB/CW/MyNetworkTV stations yet.


----------



## Inundated

The VOD stuff now has the TWC logo on all of it. Earlier, they still had an Adelphia logo at startup.


That channel name's change was the ONLY change in a recent TiVo update, and Zap2It.com shows the same - with the new Time Warner Cable (Cleveland Heights) designation. They have not yet added C-SPAN 3, Current, WUAB-HD or The Tube to the listings in either place - they're the same data, provided by Tribune Media Services.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as I know, that's still the case. The world infamous WOIO/19 is the straggler here...they have 3, 5 and 8. DirecTV, as far as I know, isn't putting up UPN/WB/CW/MyNetworkTV stations yet.




Correct and rumor has it thats why the holdout, WE all know how woio's company does it, all stations or no stations (wasnt that the holdout to get them on time warner??).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Correct and rumor has it thats why the holdout, WE all know how woio's company does it, all stations or no stations (wasnt that the holdout to get them on time warner??).



Except that Adelphia only ever carried WOIO in HD. It never carried either WUAB in HD or "The Tube".


Those were only added the day TWC took over this system.


But your overall point is correct. Raycom uses as much leverage as they can. I'm not sure how Adelphia ended up not taking WUAB-HD or The Tube...


----------



## stuart628

adelphia was way before time warner werent they? maybe they snuck in before raycom made changes?


----------



## craigv

NFL Network is back on due to the FCC ruling


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NFL Network is back on due to the FCC ruling



Heh Heh.....Big Bad Time Warner gets pushed around by the FCC. I guess it didn't to long for them to "consider their options."


Not that this may be the end of this. I'll expect them to file and try to get an injunction by 8/15. Enjoy it while you can.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> adelphia was way before time warner werent they? maybe they snuck in before raycom made changes?



Nope.


WOIO-DT was added to Adelphia under Raycom's ownership. It was actually not that long ago, within the past year or so...and not long before TWC ended up adding both WOIO-DT and WUAB-DT.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that this may be the end of this. I'll expect them to file and try to get an injunction by 8/15. Enjoy it while you can.



It appears both of 'em are acting badly here - both NFL Network and TWC.


NFL Network wanted a new deal for the ex-Adelphia/Comcast systems, at what is a fairly high cost - 90 cents a subscriber. That's not in the $3/sub range that ESPN gets, but it's higher than most other major cable channels.


TWC says "fine, be that way, but we want to move you into a sports tier". (Of course, despite its $3/sub rate, ESPN is not ever going to be moved out of basic.)


The rest of us are going - "We had this channel on Monday, why did we lose it on Tuesday?"


The solution should be that TWC gets the same deal Adelphia and Comcast did until Tuesday - but only on the merged systems, since the deal was already in place. When that deal expires, THEN TWC and NFL Network renegotiate for the ex-Adelphia/Comcast systems.


It makes sense when you think of it, as major lineup changes aren't likely for a few months...and even then, TWC could still feed NFL Network separately.


BTW, confirming the above, NFL Network is back here as well.


----------



## hookbill

TW is saying they are going to put it's viewers on a 30 day notification with a crawl on the bottom of the screen that unless they come to an agreement with the NFL it will be removed. I just turned on NFL HD and I don't see it. The crawl that is.









http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6359461.html


----------



## jtscherne

The lack of a 30-day notice was one of the issues cited by the FCC.


----------



## Brian81

I've noticed that I've gained TNTHD as well as 43-1. I've however, lost DTV 3, DTV 8, DTV 5, etc... I get the HD stations for these (except for 8) but I used to get the digital SD versions of them also...


----------



## wlgann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alfbinet* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems that Cleveland has become the ugly stepchild of Dish. I wouldn't expect it until the end of the year or early next? This is frustrating for me because even though I can get a great signal from all the networks OTA I live near the airport. It all depends on the time of day and season of the year whether I get pixalation, audio dropouts or total freeze and loss of signal. I think this is multipath issues.



The really irritating thing about it is that Cleveland is by FAR the largest market that they don't have HD locals for. For pete's sake, Indianapolis and Raleigh are getting HD Locals before us!


I got tired of the wait and went with Adelphia/TWC, which has actually been pretty satisfying, despite the "bang-for-the-buck" appeal of Dish.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've noticed that I've gained TNTHD as well as 43-1. I've however, lost DTV 3, DTV 8, DTV 5, etc... I get the HD stations for these (except for 8) but I used to get the digital SD versions of them also...



I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?


I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TW is saying they are going to put it's viewers on a 30 day notification with a crawl on the bottom of the screen that unless they come to an agreement with the NFL it will be removed. I just turned on NFL HD and I don't see it. The crawl that is.



I have tuned into it on and off all day, mostly on the SD/digital cable side (178), and haven't seen the crawl either.


I have seen the NFL Network's own crawl at the top, telling TWC customers to call their toll-free number! But not TWC's own "we're cancelling this channel in 30 days" crawl.


----------



## craigv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?
> 
> 
> I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.



Well he must be a former Adelphia customer because Time Warner in Akron have had WUAB and TNT and he just recently got them.


----------



## craigv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have tuned into it on and off all day, mostly on the SD/digital cable side (178), and haven't seen the crawl either.
> 
> 
> I have seen the NFL Network's own crawl at the top, telling TWC customers to call their toll-free number! But not TWC's own "we're cancelling this channel in 30 days" crawl.



On channel 125(ESPNUs old number) there is a message stating NFL Network may be removed next month.


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?
> 
> 
> I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.




Ex-Adelphia Lorain Branch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On channel 125(ESPNUs old number) there is a message stating NFL Network may be removed next month.



Yes, I can confirm that and how funny! Why put the message on an obscure and now unused station? I guess it's kind of like when a class action law suit goes down, publish it in a small ad in the paper where nobody will probably look and that does the legal trick.


I haven't seen the scroll Inundated talked about from the NFL. Perhaps that's the reason TW decided not to post another scroll there.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?
> 
> 
> I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.



Same here in Solon. Just did a re-scan of my Panny and everything was there....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the scroll Inundated talked about from the NFL. Perhaps that's the reason TW decided not to post another scroll there.



I haven't seen the NFL Network's own scroll much, but I have seen it. They don't run it continuously.


The message on ESPNU has indeed changed to a message about the carriage of NFL Network!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the NFL Network's own scroll much, but I have seen it. They don't run it continuously.
> 
> 
> The message on ESPNU has indeed changed to a message about the carriage of NFL Network!



I sent OMW an email on this several hours ago. Thanks for the credit, OMW.









http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## HDTD

Anyone having PQ issues with Sunday Night Football? The opening of the show almost looked like it was cutting between HD and SD, but typically the change isn't as seamless as this was. Anytime they'd bring in the Decko graphics the picture would defocus. Also, the graphics in general seemed very hard to read.


I'm watching the ATSC broadcast of WKYC. It's not my typical reception issues with WKYC, that's been surprisingly strong.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone having PQ issues with Sunday Night Football? The opening of the show almost looked like it was cutting between HD and SD, but typically the change isn't as seamless as this was. Anytime they'd bring in the Decko graphics the picture would defocus. Also, the graphics in general seemed very hard to read.
> 
> 
> I'm watching the ATSC broadcast of WKYC. It's not my typical reception issues with WKYC, that's been surprisingly strong.



Lots of talk about it on the NBC HOF Game thread in HDTV Programming:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707813 


I even have a screen shot or two from WKYC-DT demonstrating it.


Any idea what it is?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone having PQ issues with Sunday Night Football? The opening of the show almost looked like it was cutting between HD and SD, but typically the change isn't as seamless as this was. Anytime they'd bring in the Decko graphics the picture would defocus. Also, the graphics in general seemed very hard to read.
> 
> 
> I'm watching the ATSC broadcast of WKYC. It's not my typical reception issues with WKYC, that's been surprisingly strong.



Yep, got home and watched my recording of it on the SA8300HD (WOW cable). Kept going out of focus when the graphics would go in/out. The booth with Madden/Michaels was not HD. They've definitely got some teething issues to work out. I've put my ***** list over in the official NBC HOF game thread.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, got home and watched my recording of it on the SA8300HD (WOW cable). Kept going out of focus when the graphics would go in/out. The booth with Madden/Michaels was not HD. They've definitely got some teething issues to work out. I've put my ***** list over in the official NBC HOF game thread.



I watched a bit of the game, but really didn't notice much. I suspect part of the problem was the origination point - Canton - where they probably don't have much imbedded infrastructure to support HD broadcasts....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched a bit of the game, but really didn't notice much. I suspect part of the problem was the origination point - Canton - where they probably don't have much imbedded infrastructure to support HD broadcasts....



Nah, my guess is that the issue is with WKYC's local HD encoders. There were folks on that HOF thread who were NOT seeing the issues we describe, and others in other markets who were.


Canton really doesn't have anything to do with it. They bring in the trucks no matter what...


----------



## paule123

Hey Inundated (or any other Clevelanders) - did anyone notice if Weather Plus was turned off during the HOF game (or bandwidth reduced)?


IMO, they did mess with *something* because the graphics flying in/out during the HOF game didn't have the usual horrible macroblocking NBC is famous for. I'll speculate they changed some mux setting to improve the HD PQ during the game, but that introduced the fuzz/blur problem...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IMO, they did mess with *something* because the graphics flying in/out during the HOF game didn't have the usual horrible macroblocking NBC is famous for. I'll speculate they changed some mux setting to improve the HD PQ during the game, but that introduced the fuzz/blur problem...



There's someone on the HOF thread who seems to think it was a simple encoder setting.


I did not check for Weather Plus during the game, but I'm sure that WKYC didn't turn it off. They may or may not have messed with the settings for it, though.


I DID see macroblocking - not really with the graphics, but in very fast moving action when they did extreme closeups. I didn't notice it otherwise...


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Inundated (or any other Clevelanders) - did anyone notice if Weather Plus was turned off during the HOF game (or bandwidth reduced)?
> 
> 
> IMO, they did mess with *something* because the graphics flying in/out during the HOF game didn't have the usual horrible macroblocking NBC is famous for. I'll speculate they changed some mux setting to improve the HD PQ during the game, but that introduced the fuzz/blur problem...




Weather was on as I watched it for radar to see if maybe there was a little electricity in the air as I had breakups (alot more then usual)


----------



## JJkizak

Yes, I had the same focusing issues. Plus there was the 1/8th second out of focus at the beginning of each scene change, like the transmission was trying to catch up.

JJK


----------



## RhaaZZ

Here is the channel listing from Massillon Cable if you don't use their cable box, see attached. The listing came up when I did a scan using FusionHDTV on my HTPC. Please note that all channels starting with a 'D' are digital and most of those are HD but not all, such as Tube.

 

Massillon Cable Lineup.pdf 8.525390625k . file


----------



## CPanther95

Threads merged.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia, TWC, whoever...it's still a cable company, and some things never change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know, that's still the case. The world infamous WOIO/19 is the straggler here...they have 3, 5 and 8. DirecTV, as far as I know, isn't putting up UPN/WB/CW/MyNetworkTV stations yet.



Directv KINDA has Channel 3, IMO. By that I mean that the channel is suffering some big MPEG-4 growing pains (As is STO-HD) with a stuttering picture every scene looking like its in slo-mo, etc. 5 and 8 have not exhibited any probs however and your right no 19/43, 25 or 55 yet.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Directv KINDA has Channel 3, IMO. By that I mean that the channel is suffering some big MPEG-4 growing pains (As is STO-HD) with a stuttering picture every scene looking like its in slo-mo, etc. 5 and 8 have not exhibited any probs however and your right no 19/43, 25 or 55 yet.



Cleveland's not the only market that has had this problem...I seem to remember reading some folks in Boston that have similar complaints.


Maybe it's a 1080i thing, as 5 and 8 are 720p?


----------



## RussTC3

First off, my apologies if this has been covered recently. I went back three pages, and didn't see any talk of it.


Any news on WBNX going HD in time for the launch of The CW? I know their original plan was to go HD sometime between July and September on ch. 30, is that still the plan (the website still says it, but I was wondering if there was any news elsewhere)?


Thanks!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any news on WBNX going HD in time for the launch of The CW? I know their original plan was to go HD sometime between July and September on ch. 30, is that still the plan (the website still says it, but I was wondering if there was any news elsewhere)?



You didn't see anything on it since there's no news.










The only thing that's happened recently is that they've updated both "hoped for" dates on the Trends page to September, even though the rest of the information around it is entirely incorrect...for one, the CP has officially been issued, as we posted here ages ago.


I keep scanning and I haven't seen any indication that WBNX-DT is up yet. If they're hoping to be on before the CW starts up, they have about 5 weeks and change to do it...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You didn't see anything on it since there's no news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that's happened recently is that they've updated both "hoped for" dates on the Trends page to September, even though the rest of the information around it is entirely incorrect...for one, the CP has officially been issued, as we posted here ages ago.
> 
> 
> I keep scanning and I haven't seen any indication that WBNX-DT is up yet. If they're hoping to be on before the CW starts up, they have about 5 weeks and change to do it...



One of the issues keeping WBNX-DT off the air was an antenna upgrade. Since I can see the antenna farm out my back window, I think I'll pull out my binoculars to see if there is any work being done on their tower. If I see anything I'll post it here


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One of the issues keeping WBNX-DT off the air was an antenna upgrade. Since I can see the antenna farm out my back window, I think I'll pull out my binoculars to see if there is any work being done on their tower. If I see anything I'll post it here



Do you know which one is WBNX's?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One of the issues keeping WBNX-DT off the air was an antenna upgrade. Since I can see the antenna farm out my back window, I think I'll pull out my binoculars to see if there is any work being done on their tower. If I see anything I'll post it here



wow, talk about inside information.... ^_^ good goin' Michael.


Now that WBNX knows we're watching, maybe they'll get things moving. It'd be nice to have another HD channel in the uhf range.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you know which one is WBNX's?



As a matter of fact I do! From the POV of my back yard WBNX and WOIO are so close together they almost touch each other. WBNX is the one to the left (west). Ironically from Ridgewood Drive WQHS and WBNX share the same access road (CYO Camp Corde'), while WOIO is in the West Creek Preserve (the brand new Metropark reservation which used to be the Parma City dump).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact I do! From the POV of my back yard WBNX and WOIO are so close together they almost touch each other. WBNX is the one to the left (west). Ironically from Ridgewood Drive WQHS and WBNX share the same access road (CYO Camp Corde'), while WOIO is in the West Creek Preserve (the brand new Metropark reservation which used to be the Parma City dump).



Here's a pic of the site from a few years ago (summer 2000), when WBNX was still just going up...











It looks like WBNX is the second tower on the left, and WOIO is the tallest one on the right side.


And here's the narrative on it:

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2004/site-040212.html


----------



## Brian81

ex-Adelphia customers: Does it seem like HD PQ has gotten worse since Adelphia became Time Warner? I was watching DiscoveryHD and I swear there are what looks like compression artifacts in the picture where from the past month or so I've had my set, I remember DiscoveryHD having a very nice picture without this problem. Also, during the Eagles-Raiders NFL preseason opener, my eyes were going batty because the picture would go from sharp and clear to soft/fuzzy and back. Over and over again for the entire game. It bugged me so much I was going to watch it in analog SD, but then the picture looked really crappy and had to turn it back... Seems like the analog stations look much worse, also. I found them very much watchable two weeks ago, now they are all horrible looking. On the digital HD stations, I'm starting to notice what looks like combing artifacts which I don't remember being apparent before.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ex-Adelphia customers: Does it seem like HD PQ has gotten worse since Adelphia became Time Warner?



Impossible. Nothing has really changes. People are the same. Equipment is the same. I've noticed no differences in pq.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, during the Eagles-Raiders NFL preseason opener, my eyes were going batty because the picture would go from sharp and clear to soft/fuzzy and back. Over and over again for the entire game. It bugged me so much I was going to watch it in analog SD, but then the picture looked really crappy and had to turn it back..



Discussed extensively in this forum and others. This was not limited to our area or Adelphia. Take a look back a page or so in this forum.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Seems like the analog stations look much worse, also. I found them very much watchable two weeks ago, now they are all horrible looking. On the digital HD stations, I'm starting to notice what looks like combing artifacts which I don't remember being apparent before.



Same answer as to the first part of your question. Everything I see in analog looks about the same. I hardly watch anything live so I see it on my SA 8300. As a matter of fact I first thought the picture looked better.







I was very happy to see Adelphia go. But the reality is all that has changed is the name.....for now.


----------



## Brian81

Thanks.


----------



## Inundated

TWC did squeeze in two more HD channels - WUAB-DT and TNT-HD - a week ago Tuesday.


But I haven't seen any difference in PQ here, either here or upstairs. It's somewhat likely that they already had the bandwidth for both...it would only require one "full" QAM channel, as you can squeeze two 1080i feeds on one QAM256 channel.


The equipment is otherwise the same, and basically, only the name they answer the phone with has been changed for now.


Brian, if you're seeing something different, maybe there are problems unrelated to (but coincidental with) the merger date.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Impossible. Nothing has really changes. People are the same. Equipment is the same. I've noticed no differences in pq.



I wouldn't say "impossible". Brian81 might be on to something - TWC has been accused of reducing bitrates on their HD channels in "select cities" whatever that means:
http://www.stophdlite.com/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say "impossible". Brian81 might be on to something - TWC has been accused of reducing bitrates on their HD channels in "select cities" whatever that means:
> http://www.stophdlite.com/




Sigh.....that goes along with what MAY change. It just isn't going to change that much in one week. Being "accused" of something on the internet doesn't make it real.


You know I am probably the most skeptical person in the world when it comes to cable. I realize they are what they are, and TW may not be any better then Adelphia, but I have to believe if there was a way to save money or produce more by cutting bit rate Adelphia would have done it long before TW.


Somtimes you just have to be a bit realistic. There is only so much one can do in the first week of taking over a big huge cable area.


----------



## Telosian

I have not noticed any degradation of Picture Quality but I do think the audio has improved! I know, I'm probably crazy, but just maybe someone has looked over the way they have their board phased and I think the stereo image has actually become more defined. Except on WVIZ where their Legends of Jazz program (why would someone actually make any effort on a program dedicated to music) was completely out of phase the other night. Audio is even more subjective than video (psychoacoustic effects and all) and it is so varied between what is program material and what is commercials; but it's possible. Almost anything is possible. I did love it that everyone noticed the fuzz box on the football game the other night, you could anticipate every upcoming switcher cue.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have not noticed any degradation of Picture Quality but I do think the audio has improved!



I heard audio improvementx too, but I don't believe my ears.










I noticed it big time when they showed a Tribe game on WKYC channel 3. Rear speaker audio was much more pronounced.


But again being realistic, or at least trying to be I'm not willing to put money on that statement.


----------



## toadman50




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone who lives in the Medina area have armstrong because I am thinking of switching.



Hello,


I do live in Medina and have had Armstrong HDTV for about a year. I did have them for the zoom cable modem previous to the tv portion, but with a new HDTV and Dishnetwork asking $$$$ for the HD PVR, I switched to Armstrong.


Armstrong offers the following channels in HD

103 WKYC NBC CLEVELAND, OH

104 WOIO 19 CBS - CLEVELAND, OH

105 WEWS ABC CLEVELAND, OH

108 WJW FOX CLEVELAND, OH

120 TNT HD

121 WEALTHTV HD

125 WVIZ PBS - CLEVELAND, OH (Acually a Network feed not WVIZ)

177 & 178 - Fox Sports Channel HD

180 NFL NETWORK HD

185 ESPN HD (HD ADVANTAGE) *

186 HDNET (HD ADVANTAGE) *

187 HDNET MOVIES (HD ADVANTAGE) *

188 UNIVERSAL HD (HD ADVANTAGE)

190 SHOWTIME HDTV*

198 CINEMAX HDTV *

199 HBO HDTV*


The * channels are subscription ones. You can get ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET Movies for $3 a month. The rest of the HDs are included in your basic cable subscription and my Samsung HLR5067W will pull them down as channels 106-1, 106-2 and 107-1 and 107-2 for Channels 3, 5, 8 and 19 respectively. There are other channels that are broadcasted in HD as well that you can get with just an HD tuner. Some on them are on their digital subscription package like toon disney and some are the actual HD channels like universal HD.


I do subscribe to their digital package and also lease a Motorola 6412 V 3 PVR from them. The PVR fee is $6 a month and that leases the box as well. You can record about 12 hours of HD, and about 100 hrs of standard definition. It is a ok box, the worst part of it is no 30 second skip forward (and I have tried with different remotes, it is software blocked). Also note that the Moto box does clean up the analog ch 2 - 73 rather well and it looks acceptable on my 50" screen. The digital portion 400 - 600 look good. If you view them on the built in tuner, the analog channels don't look as good (a bit grainy on a 50" screen, but location does matter, I am off of Guilford in Ryan Land). About 3 months ago it seemed that Armstrong was upgrading the software on the PVR about every day and with each fix there was a problem. They did credit everyone for that time and it seems that those probems are in the past. The greatest feature on the Moto box is that you can record 2 HDTV channels at the same time and watch a prerecorded HD program all at the same time. It doesn't miss a beat.


The HD quality is superb. I have a channelmaster attena in my attic and I can pull 5, 8, 19 no problem and when comparing the picture to the Armstrong Moto box, the picture is the same, I can't tell a difference in quality. TNDHD is very good as well as Universal HD. You will see that some people complain about DirecTV's HD quality varying, but Armstrongs is right on.


I just have one cable coming in giving me 5mbps internet (and powering my VOIP line), 3 analog TV's, and my HDTV.


I would give it a go. Look online, there is always some promotion at www.armstrongonewire.com . I used the 6 months free basic promotion so all you have to pay for is the PVR fee and digitital service fee.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> 125 WVIZ PBS - CLEVELAND, OH (Acually a Network feed not WVIZ)



If, by a "network feed" you mean "PBS HD", that is what WVIZ is broadcasting in HD from WVIZ-HD 25.1. Unlike WEAO, WVIZ does not broadcast a digital version of their analog channel, so the program schedule is quite different. You shuld see a WVIZ "bug" in the lower right-hand corner. The ability to add that bug (as well as the ability to break out into a local origination I.D. in HD) is part of what is keeping WNEO/WEAO from carrying PBS HD.


It's a fine mess we are in here in NE Ohio. The one PBS affilliate that can carry PBS HD does so on a 1 kw transmitter 99' tower. The other, a dual location, full-power ASTC signal, does not have the equipment to meet the specifications of PBS HD (i.e. to add the local inserts)


----------



## icicle22




Inundated said:


> Oh, so they must be airing it as a QAM channel at least now. That might mean it's not ready for "prime time" and they still need to work on it before releasing it.
> 
> 
> (Adelphia did the same here with Fox Sports Net Ohio's HD Cavs telecasts earlier this year.)
> 
> 
> STO's new website still only lists the analog games on Massillon Cable 11:
> 
> 
> Massillon Cable's website says the same, and does not yet list STO in HD:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. This is my first post here so don't flame me if these questions are obvious. I just moved to Canal Fulton from Warren Ohio and have no cable provider other than Massillon Cable. Previously I had Time Warner and had STO in HD. Massillon doesn't offer this in HD....but this post got my attention.
> 
> 
> 1. What is a QAM channel and how do I tune it in?
> 
> 2. How do you tune a HD Cable box to 82.2?
> 
> 
> When I tried to input channel 82 it just flashed ??? at me.
> 
> 
> Help a brother out and hook me up with some HD Tribe action if you can.....
> 
> 
> So far my experience with Massillon Cable has me wondering if they are really compressing the heck out of everything because I see tons of artifacts on SD channels up and down the dial.......my 45" LCD didn't look this bad with Time Warner on the SD channels.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
Click to expand...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1. What is a QAM channel and how do I tune it in?



Simply put QAM is the method in which ATSC programing is transmitted across cable lines. You must have a ATSC tuner with QAM "decoding" capabilities to tune in these channels (unless you have a cable box and the QAM program is assigned a channel number).


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2. How do you tune a HD Cable box to 82.2?



You don't. The 82.2 channel must be assigned a cable box channel before you can tune to it with the cable box.


Does your HDTV have a built in ATSC tuner? Does it have a cable card slot? If you answered yes to these two questions you should be able to run a channel scan with the cable connected directly to your HDTV and find the 82.2 channel this way. If your HDTV doesn't have a built in ATSC tuner with QAM capabilities you may want to invest in a external tuner.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say "impossible". Brian81 might be on to something - TWC has been accused of reducing bitrates on their HD channels in "select cities" whatever that means:
> http://www.stophdlite.com/



I don't put a lot of stock in that site.


It's registered anonymously, and from the use of the phrase "HD Lite", it's probably run by a fellow AVS Forum member...probably someone who uses the term incessantly over in the HDTV Programming threads.


The site is actually not badly designed, but it contains a lot of typos, and a lot of inappropriate use of capital letters.


I give it about the same credibility as another message here.


As I mentioned, the only POSSIBLE change right now is the addition of the two HD channels (WUAB/TNT) by TWC a week ago Tuesday. But I am sure they have the bandwidth. As a matter of fact, by spiking the NFL Network HD feed alone they probably do...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I give it about the same credibility as another message here.



Actually I give it even less. There are certain folks who I pretty much take teir word as gospel around here. Inundated would be one of them. There are others. But there are alot of websites that are ridiculous. I saw one in another forum I visit for Vonage where someone posted a link saying for a site that was claiming paypal as a rip off.


----------



## grifta67

Hey everyone.


I live in Lakewood and I'm brand new. As shiny new to this as one can be. We just picked up an OTA receiver and antenna last night. I'm pretty tech savvy with computers and whatnot, but I'll be the first to admit that setting up HD is kind of daunting. I hope you all don't mind me posting in this thread, but I figured I'd try and get some local advice before making a dedicated post.


I'm sure all you hardcore HDers will simply snicker at our equipment, but we're naive newcomers.







Our tuner is a Samsung SIR-T351 and the antenna is a Philips MANT510 indoor setup right on top of the tv.


Unfortunately I didn't get much time to play with everything last night as it was pretty late once everything was hooked up. With minimal amount of messing with the setup, we got channels 3 (NBC) and 5 (ABC), but no FOX or CBS. This might all change once I get into the menus and play around with things. The only major obstruction is a 4 story apartment building next to us. Everything else is typical neighborhood fair, two story houses.


So basically I thought I would post quick while at work and ask for any advice for when I go home tonight and work on getting the other channels to come in.


Thanks for any help you can provide!

-Sean
[email protected]


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I give it even less. There are certain folks who I pretty much take teir word as gospel around here. Inundated would be one of them. There are others. But there are alot of websites that are ridiculous. I saw one in another forum I visit for Vonage where someone posted a link saying for a site that was claiming paypal as a rip off.



Why, thank you.










The point I was making is that the site is probably put up by a regular poster here, and I don't believe it has any scientific or technical background.


The fact that the person registered it anonymously takes away a few points, too.


If the guy would put up his qualifications, that'd be another matter. It just seems to be the equivalent of posting a bunch of messages trying to get people to agree with you.


----------



## k2rj

Trying to get decent HD reception with an indoor antenna is kinda like trying to race a Corvette on kerosene! HD signals not only need adequate signal strength, but multipath (ghosting you would see on analog signals) and interference from Detroit, London and other cities across the lake wreck havoc with digital signals. If you want to really enjoy your new "toy", I'd suggest a good rooftop antenna or else cable/dish.


----------



## JJkizak

And if your computer literate you can install the MY-HD 130 card for the tuner and recording functions but you still need a good antenna and rotor.

JJK


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Simply put QAM is the method in which ATSC programing is transmitted across cable lines. You must have a ATSC tuner with QAM "decoding" capabilities to tune in these channels (unless you have a cable box and the QAM program is assigned a channel number).
> 
> 
> You don't. The 82.2 channel must be assigned a cable box channel before you can tune to it with the cable box.
> 
> 
> Does your HDTV have a built in ATSC tuner? Does it have a cable card slot? If you answered yes to these two questions you should be able to run a channel scan with the cable connected directly to your HDTV and find the 82.2 channel this way. If your HDTV doesn't have a built in ATSC tuner with QAM capabilities you may want to invest in a external tuner.



My television does indeed have a built-in ATSC tuner and a cable card slot. So what do I do next? I am guessing that if I call Massillon Cable and ask about getting a cable card they are likely to say "what's that?".


Sorry to repeat the question but is there anyone else on this Cleveland thread using Massilon cable and what are your opinions? I got home from work tonight and the SD channels looked so compressed it isn't funny. I mean, I am used to SD stations looking a little weak on my HD set but this is ridiculous.....it looks like I downloaded a web video.....and not the h.264 variety.


Thanks.....was thinking of going to Direct TV but have been reading that the HD PQ isn't too hot there either. Damn....I miss Time Warner already and it's only been 3 days!


Peace!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My television does indeed have a built-in ATSC tuner and a cable card slot. So what do I do next?



Like I said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you should be able to run a channel scan with the cable connected directly to your HDTV and find the 82.2 channel this way.



So, once you have completed a channel scan, then use your remote to tune in 82.2.


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like I said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, once you have completed a channel scan, then use your remote to tune in 82.2.



Your original message was not 100% clear as to wether I required a cable card in tandem with the ATSC tuner. Now that I know that the cable card should not be required I will run a can of the channels from the Television itself.....


Thanks!


----------



## rRooster

Will the Browns Pre-season game on WKYC tonight be in HD?


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will the Browns Pre-season game on WKYC tonight be in HD?



No it will be regular SD, although much better than WOIO's 1970's picture quality broadcast.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't put a lot of stock in that site.
> 
> 
> It's registered anonymously, and from the use of the phrase "HD Lite", it's probably run by a fellow AVS Forum member...probably someone who uses the term incessantly over in the HDTV Programming threads.
> 
> 
> The site is actually not badly designed, but it contains a lot of typos, and a lot of inappropriate use of capital letters.
> 
> 
> I give it about the same credibility as another message here.
> 
> 
> As I mentioned, the only POSSIBLE change right now is the addition of the two HD channels (WUAB/TNT) by TWC a week ago Tuesday. But I am sure they have the bandwidth. As a matter of fact, by spiking the NFL Network HD feed alone they probably do...



Run by a moderator of satelliteguys.us, whos handle is goaliebob99, great guy. I personally have never spent too much time at the site though.


----------



## icicle22

I tried running a scan from my TV and it only picks out the standard cable signals.....channels 1-78. When it goes to scan the digital channels it says "no digital broadcast found". So I am guessing I need a cable card to hook into the digital channels on Massillon cable?


Can ayone who is using Massillon Cable and accessing STO HD on 82.2 tell me how to get it? Really missing HD Tribe baseball so far.


Thanks!


----------



## jtscherne

Not specifically related to Cleveland, but...


Dish Network has begun testing inHD. No idea when or if it will ever be made available to the public, but if so, it will definitely continue their great HD content. Food Network HD should be availably shortly too.


Here's a link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61736 


Now if we could get the locals, it might force local cable companies to work a little faster to add HD content...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried running a scan from my TV and it only picks out the standard cable signals.....channels 1-78. When it goes to scan the digital channels it says "no digital broadcast found". So I am guessing I need a cable card to hook into the digital channels on Massillon cable?
> 
> 
> Can ayone who is using Massillon Cable and accessing STO HD on 82.2 tell me how to get it? Really missing HD Tribe baseball so far.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I beleive all cable companies are required by law to pass the digital version of your over the air local stations unencrypted "in-the-clear" on a digital cable QAM channel for you. Call Massillon cable and complain. You should at least get the major networks, CBS, FOX, NBC, ABC.


I don't know if they are obligated to give you STOHD "in-the-clear" You might have to get a cablecard for that.


Tell us what make/model TV you have, others might be able to give you some tips.


----------



## lefkas

Will the Colts-Rams game on Fox tonight be broadcast in HD ? Does anyone know if any of the Yougstown stations will broadcast the Browns game tonight?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried running a scan from my TV and it only picks out the standard cable signals.....channels 1-78. When it goes to scan the digital channels it says "no digital broadcast found".



It seems pretty unlikely that your cable co doesn't have digital cable programing. It has been my experience that my TV finds even the encrypted channels offered by my cable co (I can't see anything but a black screen, but the channel is there). So I would expect yours to do something similar instead of returning "No digital broadcast found." Does it even seem like it's scanning for digital channels?


Who makes your HDTV and what is the model number?


It seems more likely that you have your cables connected incorrectly. I seem to remember going through a similar problem with another user that had a completely seperate "digital cable" connection on their HDTV. So the manufacturer supplied a cable splitter with the HDTV so you would run one into the analog connection and the other to the digital connection.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Hey everyone.
> 
> 
> I live in Lakewood and I'm brand new. As shiny new to this as one can be. We just picked up an OTA receiver and antenna last night. I'm pretty tech savvy with computers and whatnot, but I'll be the first to admit that setting up HD is kind of daunting. I hope you all don't mind me posting in this thread, but I figured I'd try and get some local advice before making a dedicated post.
> 
> 
> I'm sure all you hardcore HDers will simply snicker at our equipment, but we're naive newcomers. Our tuner is a Samsung SIR-T351 and the antenna is a Philips MANT510 indoor setup right on top of the tv.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't get much time to play with everything last night as it was pretty late once everything was hooked up. With minimal amount of messing with the setup, we got channels 3 (NBC) and 5 (ABC), but no FOX or CBS. This might all change once I get into the menus and play around with things. The only major obstruction is a 4 story apartment building next to us. Everything else is typical neighborhood fair, two story houses.
> 
> 
> So basically I thought I would post quick while at work and ask for any advice for when I go home tonight and work on getting the other channels to come in.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide!
> 
> -Sean
> [email protected]



If you must use an indoor antenna, be sure you can aim it out a window facing the transmitters, especially if your home has aluminum siding.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Trying to get decent HD reception with an indoor antenna is kinda like trying to race a Corvette on kerosene! HD signals not only need adequate signal strength, but multipath (ghosting you would see on analog signals) and interference from Detroit, London and other cities across the lake wreck havoc with digital signals. If you want to really enjoy your new "toy", I'd suggest a good rooftop antenna or else cable/dish.



I agree. Additionally, Lakewood is possibly one of the worst locations in the Greater Cleveland area to get OTA signals. As a hobby, I used to install Dish Network satellite dishes for friends. Back in those days if you wanted local TV stations you had to get tem OTA (or lie about your location to E* in order to get NYC and/or LA network stations). I had a heck of a time trying to get a decent picture OTA. Between the terrain, nearby buildings, and low flying aircraft from Hopkins, the reception was awful! As close as Lakewood is to the Parma antenna farm you would think that their reception would be better. Lakewood has a better shot at Toledo and Detroit stations then they do for Cleveland










These reception issues are compounded in digital. While in analog you could still see a picture, in digital you either get a perfect picture or nothing at all (or you get pixillated garbage if you are sitting right on the threshhold).


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will the Colts-Rams game on Fox tonight be broadcast in HD ? Does anyone know if any of the Yougstown stations will broadcast the Browns game tonight?



According to the guide here, Colts-Rams game will be HD:
http://www.hdsportsguide.com/nfl.php 


This will be the first Fox HD football game since they added more bandwidth to their satellite distribution system a couple weeks ago. Hopefully the PQ will be better than last year!


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems pretty unlikely that your cable co doesn't have digital cable programing. It has been my experience that my TV finds even the encrypted channels offered by my cable co (I can't see anything but a black screen, but the channel is there). So I would expect yours to do something similar instead of returning "No digital broadcast found." Does it even seem like it's scanning for digital channels?
> 
> 
> Who makes your HDTV and what is the model number?
> 
> 
> It seems more likely that you have your cables connected incorrectly. I seem to remember going through a similar problem with another user that had a completely seperate "digital cable" connection on their HDTV. So the manufacturer supplied a cable splitter with the HDTV so you would run one into the analog connection and the other to the digital connection.



I have a Sharp Aquos LC-45GD4U. There are 2 analog coax inputs on the back of the television, labeled A and B. I cannot find any inputs labeled digital. When I go to scan channels it lets me check these three options:


Scan Analog A

Scan Analog B

Scan Digital Channels


It scans each and every number for the first 2 but chokes on the Digital option before it even attempts to scan it. So far I have only hooked the cable wire up to the A input.....even thought it clearly states "analog" on the label.


When I had time warner and a different HD tv I hooked up to the cable wire and was able to get digital HD channels that were not even listed by them. So I guess it should work....just need to figure out the trick.....unless that means that I need a cable card.


Thanks in advance for any other help.


----------



## Michael P 2341

icicle:

The digital input may be for OTA digital. Look in your instruction manual to see if there is an ASTC/QAM switch. If you have cable it needs to be set to QAM. The fact that it "chokes" tells me it's looking for ASTC only and not QAM.


----------



## hookbill

A little research guys. No I'm not talking about how to find channels or how to use equipment, aim antennas. I'm talking about finding out if a show is broadcast in HD.


There are many places to find this out. Find them (Google is your friend) and bookmark them. Another good one is www.zap2it.com . TVguide.com. Paule123 gave one of them.


Sorry for the rant. Don't know why that bothers me. I feel better now.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Sharp Aquos LC-45GD4U. There are 2 analog coax inputs on the back of the television, labeled A and B. I cannot find any inputs labeled digital. When I go to scan channels it lets me check these three options:
> 
> 
> Scan Analog A
> 
> Scan Analog B
> 
> Scan Digital Channels
> 
> 
> It scans each and every number for the first 2 but chokes on the Digital option before it even attempts to scan it. So far I have only hooked the cable wire up to the A input.....even thought it clearly states "analog" on the label.
> 
> 
> When I had time warner and a different HD tv I hooked up to the cable wire and was able to get digital HD channels that were not even listed by them. So I guess it should work....just need to figure out the trick.....unless that means that I need a cable card.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any other help.



Your manual, page 15 (page 16 in the Adobe reader), shows a DIGITAL coax input next to the cablecard slot:
http://www.sharpusa.com/files/tel_man_LC45GD4U.pdf 


I can see why you're confused - you've got 4 coax jacks on that TV - 2 analog ins, 1 analog out, and a digital in. Never seen such a thing - wow!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Sharp Aquos LC-45GD4U. There are 2 analog coax inputs on the back of the television, labeled A and B. I cannot find any inputs labeled digital.



I have reviewed your owners manual and found that there is indeed a digital in terminal located by your cable card and i.Link terminals. If you connect your cable to this input you should be able to scan for digital channels. Your manual leads me to believe you need a cable card to get the digital cable channels, but I bet you don't and you might get lucky if you try a few different settings.


----------



## Inundated

The Browns game is definitely not in HD, unless WKYC has a huge surprise for everyone tonight. As noted, it will likely look at least 5 times better in SD than WOIO's effort, even with stretch-o-vision. (I'll just squish it down to 4:3 on my Fusion card.)


I still remember how brutal WOIO's pre-season Browns games looked last year, what, with the stutter-stepping upconvert from the analog picture.


WYTV/33's website says they're airing the Browns game in Youngstown tonight.


Oh, and it looks like WEWS will become the next HD newscast in town, making three out of four...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...ews-items.html


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A little research guys. No I'm not talking about how to find channels or how to use equipment, aim antennas. I'm talking about finding out if a show is broadcast in HD.
> 
> 
> There are many places to find this out. Find them (Google is your friend) and bookmark them. Another good one is www.zap2it.com . TVguide.com. Paule123 gave one of them.



TVguide.com recently stopped identifying programs as being in HD, at least for my cable system. Yahoo TV does a decent job of identifying HD programs as such. I don't know why the companies that generate the EPGs for the various cable and satellite companies can't simply mark HD programs in the guide. When I had Voom DBS, the EPG showed which programs were in HD, although it wasn't always 100% accurate.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *techweb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TVguide.com recently stopped identifying programs as being in HD, at least for my cable system. Yahoo TV does a decent job of identifying HD programs as such. I don't know why the companies that generate the EPGs for the various cable and satellite companies can't simply mark HD programs in the guide. When I had Voom DBS, the EPG showed which programs were in HD, although it wasn't always 100% accurate.



Time Warner (Adelphia) does ID shows on their guide as HD but sometimes they are wrong. Same goes for Zap2it.com. You are correct, TVguide.com no longer does (strange). www.titantv.com does.


----------



## Inundated

TitanTV is at best flaky when it comes to identifying HD programming correctly. Zap2It (which uses the Tribune Media Services data that TiVo does) is actually more accurate, though I don't think even it is 100%.


I don't know where TWC/ex-Adelphia/whoever gets their data from.


----------



## Inundated

The other problem that's popped up, though this is not HD related: TMS/Zap2It/TiVo now thinks we get the Cincinnati feed of FSN Ohio. It lists Reds games, which obviously do not air here.


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Browns game is definitely not in HD, unless WKYC has a huge surprise for everyone tonight. As noted, it will likely look at least 5 times better in SD than WOIO's effort, even with stretch-o-vision. (I'll just squish it down to 4:3 on my Fusion card.)



But will it go snap, crackle, pop as I watch?


Has the sound issue been fixed yet? It was still bad last night.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But will it go snap, crackle, pop as I watch?
> 
> 
> Has the sound issue been fixed yet? It was still bad last night.



I've been watching 3 since the 6 PM newscast, and I've not noticed any sound problems...either with the local news in HD, or with NBC's newscast in upconverted SD. Of course, I am only listening on computer speakers, and not on a 5.1 system.


I heard the crackling you talk about on the Olympics, but haven't heard it recently.


----------



## paule123

Speaking of incorrect guide data, my D* box says there's supposed to be this Browns pre-game show on Channel 19 right now. Gee I wonder what happened to it ??? ROTFLMAO.


----------



## Inundated

Oddly enough, my TiVo data has accounted for the switch to WKYC.


I'm surprised that WOIO didn't do a show anyway, with a half-hour of Sharon Reed wearing low-cut tops.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually this isn't new. I know in the past, if the Indians weren't playing a night game, the guide listing on Adelphia often had a Reds game listed (which of course, wasn't shown).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The other problem that's popped up, though this is not HD related: TMS/Zap2It/TiVo now thinks we get the Cincinnati feed of FSN Ohio. It lists Reds games, which obviously do not air here.


----------



## RussTC3

Just started watching the Browns game. It looks okay I guess. Better than the Dish feed no doubt.


The Fox game looks excellent though, from the little I've watched. Except the bug seems to be screwing with the top of the screen and I do notice some shots aren't as sharp as others.


----------



## grifta67




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree. Additionally, Lakewood is possibly one of the worst locations in the Greater Cleveland area to get OTA signals.



Good thing I read that after setting everything up or I might have given up! I'm picking up NBC and ABC great, CBS with some interference intermittently, and FOX varying from great to unwatchable. The frustrating part is how the quality changes on a day to day, hour to hour basis.


No luck getting PBS, WB, or UPN. Besides a small amount of PBS, we don't consider this much of a loss.


It seems that shifting the antenna a foot in each direction fixes the Fox problem, and wow, this football game on right now looks great!


----------



## paule123

I wish we could have Bernie as an analyst all season. He doesn't sugar coat the Browns play calling. The regular network hacks sugar coat everything and don't say anything bad about anything.


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wish we could have Bernie as an analyst all season. He doesn't sugar coat the Browns play calling. The regular network hacks sugar coat everything and don't say anything bad about anything.



I liked his candor, too. But keep the pics of him and political hacks off the damn telecast... I have to see enough of that at 6 and 11.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I liked his candor, too. But keep the pics of him and political hacks off the damn telecast... I have to see enough of that at 6 and 11.



Bernie should know better than to be pictured with Bush and Blackwell in Cuyahoga county, LOL !


You can't make this **** up: I just flipped past the infamous channel 19 news and there was Denise Dufala calling in from New York complaining that she would have to throw away $100 in cosmetics and hair products in order to get on the plane to Cleveland.


----------



## JJkizak

Bernie's insight on what is happening on the field is far beyond most viewers to comprehend and really shows up the coaching flaws and for that reason he probably will be cast aside.

JJK


----------



## Rijax

Bernie has always been something of a "mush-mouth," and though he still needs to work on his consonants a bit, last night he was more intelligible than I've ever heard him.


Regarding *what* he said, I thought he was the most revealing, most honest color man I've ever heard. I actually learned something about the game from him. And his criticisms were refreshingly honest and accurate. I thought he did a fabulous job, and was considerably better than I expected (perhaps because I wasn't expecting much).


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just started watching the Browns game. It looks okay I guess. Better than the Dish feed no doubt.
> 
> 
> The Fox game looks excellent though, from the little I've watched. Except the bug seems to be screwing with the top of the screen and I do notice some shots aren't as sharp as others.



Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!


Since I bought this new Aquos TV my true HD viewing pleasure is amazing.....4x better than my old HDTV. But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.


I'm sure part of it is my TV and the other part is the switch to Massillon cable from Time Warner.....seems like MC compresses the heck out of SD signals to the point that I see mpg artifacts a lot....not the defective blocks that pop up....but softness and macroblocking on defined edges!


I am so frustrated! Why did I have to move for my job?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been watching 3 since the 6 PM newscast, and I've not noticed any sound problems...either with the local news in HD, or with NBC's newscast in upconverted SD. Of course, I am only listening on computer speakers, and not on a 5.1 system.
> 
> 
> I heard the crackling you talk about on the Olympics, but haven't heard it recently.



It was worst during the special scrimmage they had at Browns stadium... haven't heard it since.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!
> 
> 
> Since I bought this new Aquos TV my true HD viewing pleasure is amazing.....4x better than my old HDTV. But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.
> 
> 
> I'm sure part of it is my TV and the other part is the switch to Massillon cable from Time Warner.....seems like MC compresses the heck out of SD signals to the point that I see mpg artifacts a lot....not the defective blocks that pop up....but softness and macroblocking on defined edges!
> 
> 
> I am so frustrated! Why did I have to move for my job?



Are you watching it on the digital channel or analog feed? If your watching on the analog feed then try watching on your hd/digital channel, you should see a great deal of improvement even if it's stretched.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.



This is the problem many of us have once we get HDTVs. SD just generally looks like crap on a digital display. I bought an expensive scaler (iScan Ultra) a couple years ago in a desperate attempt to improve the picture quality on Browns SD games, and it really didn't make much difference. The men on the 50 yard line shot are still fuzzy little pieces of crap. Unfortunately we're stuck with CBS's limitations for the regular season and won't get many Browns games in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we're stuck with CBS's limitations for the regular season and won't get many Browns games in HD.



After last night that might be a blessing.


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you watching it on the digital channel or analog feed? If your watching on the analog feed then try watching on your hd/digital channel, you should see a great deal of improvement even if it's stretched.



I checked both channels. The HD/DIgital version only looked marginally better than the SD version. However the SD version wasn't stretched. Why does WKYC stretch everything on it's HD channel even when it is obviously 4:3 image? IS this how bad browns games are going to look on CBS too?? Yuck.....


By the way....I hooked the cable up to my old HDTV and did a scan of the digital channels and could not find STO HD at 82.2 . The game was being broadcast at that time. So even if I jumpt through hoops to get my main TV accepting digital channels I still can't find the one I am looking for. So why bother....


So is it safe to assume that I should not look into Direct TV or DIsh Network for a better qulaity picture?


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!



Well the Browns game wasn't in HD. It was decent quality for an upconvert, and much better than last year. It looked just a little bit better than the regular SD feed through Dish, but not by much.


I was watching OTA. FOX looked great, I agree there. Really nice picture.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So is it safe to assume that I should not look into Direct TV or DIsh Network for a better qulaity picture?



DirecTV or Dish, generally speaking are not going to give you a better HD picture unless your cable company really really sucks. In fact there's a bunch of people going nuts over in a Dish thread right now because Dish just downrezzed HDNet Movies in order to add another HD channel on the same satellite transponder.


I'm confused - did you hook up the digital coax input to the Sharp TV and find your digital HD channels ?


----------



## MusicAngel99

Anyone know if WFMJ (21.1) out of Youngstown is going to carry Browns games in HD this season? Since they are so close to PA I wasn't sure if they would carry Browns or Steelers.


We live in Tallmadge and get 21.1 AMAZINGLY with just rabbit ears in our house!!!


----------



## kevray

Hello I'm new here and looking for a little help. What is the best antenna to use for my situation. my zip code is 44255 so i'm like halfway between Cleveland and Youngstown and I would like to get both. right now I have a 20 year old antenna and I can only get 5.1,19.1 and21.1. All the other channels I don't even get any signal at all. Thanks in advance.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know if WFMJ (21.1) out of Youngstown is going to carry Browns games in HD this season? Since they are so close to PA I wasn't sure if they would carry Browns or Steelers.
> 
> 
> We live in Tallmadge and get 21.1 AMAZINGLY with just rabbit ears in our house!!!



Only if Cleveland plays on Sunday Night Football on NBC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevray* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello I'm new here and looking for a little help. What is the best antenna to use for my situation. my zip code is 44255 so i'm like halfway between Cleveland and Youngstown and I would like to get both. right now I have a 20 year old antenna and I can only get 5.1,19.1 and21.1. All the other channels I don't even get any signal at all. Thanks in advance.


 http://www.checkhd.com/aw/welcome.aspx


----------



## Brian81

Anyone have TNTHD (779) being displayed on HDBON (798) now? I get a black screen on 779 instead of TNT, but then TNT is showing on the "HD Bonus" channel number...


BTW, I redid an auto program for channels and I'm able to receive the digital SD stations again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have TNTHD (779) being displayed on HDBON (798) now? I get a black screen on 779 instead of TNT, but then TNT is showing on the "HD Bonus" channel number...



Not on my SA 8300. As of 5:42 this evening, everything on those channels is as it should be.


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not on my SA 8300. As of 5:42 this evening, everything on those channels is as it should be.




Maybe it was fixed, then. Guess I shouldn't have put "now" in my post. I noticed this last night from probably 9pm til 1am. Haven't yet turned the set on today. Thought there might be an Indians game on, and it was TNT!


----------



## stuart628

anyone know what happens tommorow? as Nascar is suppose to be on at 1 on NBC, and Indians are suppose to be on tommorow at 1 On NBC. I would love to watch both, or just nascar and put indians on STO.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone know what happens tommorow? as Nascar is suppose to be on at 1 on NBC, and Indians are suppose to be on tommorow at 1 On NBC. I would love to watch both, or just nascar and put indians on STO.



I would rather take option C which is watching grass grow. Indians suck and Nascar is even worse!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would rather take option C which is watching grass grow. Indians suck and Nascar is even worse!


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would rather take option C which is watching grass grow. Indians suck and Nascar is even worse!



Thanks for all your help, I really feel like you contributed to my question and I now know the answer to what I was asking.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your help, I really feel like you contributed to my question and I now know the answer to what I was asking.



You know this really goes to what I was saying the other day about people not really wanting to do a little research - and you get upset because he made a humorous (in my opinion) remark.


So since you didn't think he was funny I went to www.zap2it.com for you and looked up what was happening. There will be no Nascar, just Indians baseball. Finding out this info wasn't difficult.


Oh, you can watch some Indy racing on WEWS after the Tribe game if you want but it won't be in HD. The NFL network is having a preseason game also, the Titans at New Orleans. There will be beach volleyball after the Tribe game on WKYC.in HD.


I don't know if the NFL Network game is in HD. Please don't be upset because I couldn't research it further for you. I hope I gave you enough to plan your Sunday viewing.


----------



## stuart628

Thank you Hookbill, I went to titantv, and it did show Indians, but my confusion is this, NASCAR is a National contract, Inidans are local, I would be under the impression WKYC would have to broadcast NASCAR, as the indians have their own channel (STO) and NASCAR just wont be shown in cleveland, which sucks for those of us that like nascar (I know their are few, but i dont make fun of you for not enjoying it, or enjoying the browns). Also thanks for helping me out, I was just hoping there was someone with insight on cleveland locals who would know, or at least I was hoping that they would work out something like put the indians on the analog NBC, and HIGH DEF STO, and put NASCAR on Digital NBC or something like that/


edit: also I am getting ready to get my neighbor hooked up on a antenna, he saw my OTA and that I was getting WKBN, and just the overall quality of it, and wants it now (he has a sony plasma with a I would suppose 4th gen OTA tuner) anyways whats better for OTA, RG6, or RG59, or does it really even matter, my RG6 works fine, but I just wondered, thanks for the help everybody, also sorry if I got snappy earlier just frustrated I lose out on NASCAR tommorow.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also thanks for helping me out, I was just hoping there was someone with insight on cleveland locals who would know, or at least I was hoping that they would work out something like put the indians on the analog NBC, and HIGH DEF STO, and put NASCAR on Digital NBC or something like that



The problem is...it just doesn't work that way. WKYC was well aware of the possibility of the NASCAR race when it scheduled its Indians games...if not the exact race, surely the possibility of one.


The problem with all of that is that they do not split up the analog and digital signals. I know stations that have put different sub-programming on subchannels, but WKYC only has the analog/HD simulcast (which is basically required by FCC law to run whatever is on the analog channel), and Weather Plus, which is required by contract to run 24/7.


There's basically nowhere to put it, and WKYC isn't "moving" it to STO because they already knew about the conflict when they scheduled it.


----------



## rRooster

off subject slightly .. but I remember during NCAA tournament they played different feeds on analog and digital I


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyways whats better for OTA, RG6, or RG59, or does it really even matter, my RG6 works fine, but I just wondered,



Always use RG6, it's better than RG59.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem is...it just doesn't work that way. WKYC was well aware of the possibility of the NASCAR race when it scheduled its Indians games...if not the exact race, surely the possibility of one.
> 
> 
> The problem with all of that is that they do not split up the analog and digital signals. I know stations that have put different sub-programming on subchannels, but WKYC only has the analog/HD simulcast (which is basically required by FCC law to run whatever is on the analog channel), and Weather Plus, which is required by contract to run 24/7.
> 
> 
> There's basically nowhere to put it, and WKYC isn't "moving" it to STO because they already knew about the conflict when they scheduled it.



I don't think WKYC has incentive to move the Indians to STO. They make so much money in local ad revenue that it'd be silly to move the game elsewhere.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!
> 
> 
> Since I bought this new Aquos TV my true HD viewing pleasure is amazing.....4x better than my old HDTV. But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.
> 
> 
> I'm sure part of it is my TV and the other part is the switch to Massillon cable from Time Warner.....seems like MC compresses the heck out of SD signals to the point that I see mpg artifacts a lot....not the defective blocks that pop up....but softness and macroblocking on defined edges!
> 
> 
> I am so frustrated! Why did I have to move for my job?




I have Massillon Cable too. If you are watching the SD signals through the Massillon cable DVR they look extra bad. The DVR converts everything you watch into digital so it can be recorded in case you want to "pause live TV", or any of the other DVR tricks. The HDTV channels don't look bad on the DVR because they are already digital and don't get converted. If I hook the cable directly to my TV's tuner and bypass the DVR, I think the SD channels look a little better.


Unfortunately the SD digital cable channels don't look any better because they do compress the heck out of them.


----------



## paule123

Well boys, we've still got the fuzz-outs on WKYC on the Bengals game tonight. Doesn't seem as bad as last week, but it's still there.


I sent an email last week with a link to Indundated's pictures but received no response. The only email address that seemed reasonable was [email protected] They don't have a published email for engineering.


----------



## Inundated

I missed the NBC SNF game, so I didn't get a chance to see it.


Paul - [email protected] ? I would suppose that could work, though I have never tried it. Their addresses seem straightforward.


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenNEO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have Massillon Cable too. If you are watching the SD signals through the Massillon cable DVR they look extra bad. The DVR converts everything you watch into digital so it can be recorded in case you want to "pause live TV", or any of the other DVR tricks. The HDTV channels don't look bad on the DVR because they are already digital and don't get converted. If I hook the cable directly to my TV's tuner and bypass the DVR, I think the SD channels look a little better.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the SD digital cable channels don't look any better because they do compress the heck out of them.



Thanks fo replying! I do have another question for you if you can help. On the cable remote there is a button at the bottom that says "aspect" that doesn't do anything. On my old Time Warner Box it would squish the images or stretch the image to fit my needs. I hate watching 4x3 material stretched to fill a 16x9 screen.

I now have no options as the cable box just doesn't do it.


Is this how yours works too?


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well boys, we've still got the fuzz-outs on WKYC on the Bengals game tonight. Doesn't seem as bad as last week, but it's still there.
> 
> 
> I sent an email last week with a link to Indundated's pictures but received no response. The only email address that seemed reasonable was [email protected] They don't have a published email for engineering.



This is the first NBC HD broadcast I have seen and I noticed this too. However, in comparison to the Horrid Browns game I saw Thursday evening in SD/SD upconvert on the HD channel, I'd take this type of glitch anyday. The Browns game was aliased all over, stretched and generally just harsh. I have watched SD for years and never saw anything this harsh.


Hoping it doesn't look this bad on CBS when the regular season gets here.....


Peace!


----------



## TLaz

I found the following information on the FCC site regarding a timetable for WBNX-DT to start DTV transmissions. They state, if everything goes well, it would take 6-8 months from the time the contruction permit is received, to start DTV transmissions


A construction permit was issued to WBNX-DT on 4/20/06 so we should expect a late Oct to Dec 2006 start date.


Below is the relevant FCC information from the Feb of 2005 application.


APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO CONSTRUCT A DIGITAL TELEVISION BROADCAST STATION-FILE NO. BEPCDT - 20020301AAT Exibit Attachment 1



"Inasmuch as the initial construction permit authorizing WBNX-DT to construct DTV facilities has not yet been issued, it is anticipated that under the most optimal circumstances, construction could be completed within six to eight months of the date on which WBNX-DT receives Commissionauthority. This amount of time would be required merely to meet the Commission's new, reduced build-out requirement. Also, this estimate presumes the successful and timely acquisition of the requisite equipment, and scheduling and coordination of construction personnel. Until the authorization is granted, an antenna and other equipment cannot be ordered. It has been the licensee's experience that once the antenna is ordered, it likely will take six to eight months or longer to receive it. Completion of construction at this point now depends primarily upon when the authorization is granted, the ability of the manufacturer to deliver the antenna, and the scheduling of the requisite antenna and other installation personnel."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I found the following information on the FCC site regarding a timetable for WBNX-DT to start DTV transmissions. They state, if everything goes well, it would take 6-8 months from the time the contruction permit is received, to start DTV transmissions
> 
> 
> A construction permit was issued to WBNX-DT on 4/20/06 so we should expect a late Oct to Dec 2006 start date.
> 
> 
> Below is the relevant FCC information from the Feb of 2005 application.
> 
> 
> APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO CONSTRUCT A DIGITAL TELEVISION BROADCAST STATION-FILE NO. BEPCDT - 20020301AAT Exibit Attachment 1
> 
> 
> 
> "Inasmuch as the initial construction permit authorizing WBNX-DT to construct DTV facilities has not yet been issued, it is anticipated that under the most optimal circumstances, construction could be completed within six to eight months of the date on which WBNX-DT receives Commissionauthority. This amount of time would be required merely to meet the Commission's new, reduced build-out requirement. Also, this estimate presumes the successful and timely acquisition of the requisite equipment, and scheduling and coordination of construction personnel. Until the authorization is granted, an antenna and other equipment cannot be ordered. It has been the licensee's experience that once the antenna is ordered, it likely will take six to eight months or longer to receive it. Completion of construction at this point now depends primarily upon when the authorization is granted, the ability of the manufacturer to deliver the antenna, and the scheduling of the requisite antenna and other installation personnel."




Well, doesn't that just bite. Then you can add on at least for TW subscribers how long it's going to take to negotiate and start transmitting the signal another six months.


Doesn't look like I'll be watching Supernatural or Smallville this year in HD.


----------



## craigv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone know what happens tommorow? as Nascar is suppose to be on at 1 on NBC, and Indians are suppose to be on tommorow at 1 On NBC. I would love to watch both, or just nascar and put indians on STO.



They are scheduled to be doing this again on Oct. 1...


WKYC sucks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are scheduled to be doing this again on Oct. 1...
> 
> 
> WKYC sucks



Well I guess you have to keep it in perspective. I think 10-1 would be last game of the season, and WKYC signed on to do 20 games OTA. Now that doesn't mean just HD, just OTA. There are people out there with no cable or sattelite or HD.


Ok, so I don't know anybody but there has to be.







And even though you may love your nascar, I'm willing to bet the greater majority of people in *Cleveland* itself probably could give a damn. And I also bet that's where a large part of those ota no hd people are too.


----------



## craigv

they should have at least tape delayed the race. Not showing it at all is crap.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> they should have at least tape delayed the race. Not showing it at all is crap.



Actually I think you have a point. Even if they showed it late at night you'd have a chance to record it.


They showed the Browns on Thursday and moved the NBC show Windfall to something like 2 in the morning.


----------



## stuart628

they showed the last I think 15 laps or so, something like that. so it wasnt all a loss


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I think you have a point. Even if they showed it late at night you'd have a chance to record it.
> 
> 
> They showed the Browns on Thursday and moved the NBC show Windfall to something like 2 in the morning.



According to Roger Brown's column in the PD today, this is not an option for NASCAR:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plai...450.xml&coll=2 



> Quote:
> (Channel 3's program director) said when Channel 3 later learned the two events would directly conflict, the station asked NBC if it could tape the race and show it in its entirety after the ballgame -- but that the network's contract with NASCAR didn't permit it.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Mostly off topic, but does anyone know of a source to find Neilsen ratings for Cleveland in particular? I know a lot of the bigger cities have published ratings individually.


----------



## craigv

Does anyone have any suggestions on large directional antennae and pre-amps?


I've been considering getting an outdoor antenna for a while now, and now with the crap WKYC is doing I am probably going to get one with in a month or so.


I guess the station I will be trying for is NBC 24 out of Toledo, that is the nearest NBC from me. About 70miles from me, I have occassionally recieved the SD station at night with my small indoor antenna.


Has anyone in the area had luck recieving this station and have an idea of what antenna i should get?


Thanks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on large directional antennae and pre-amps?
> 
> 
> I've been considering getting an outdoor antenna for a while now, and now with the crap WKYC is doing I am probably going to get one with in a month or so.
> 
> 
> I guess the station I will be trying for is NBC 24 out of Toledo, that is the nearest NBC from me. About 70miles from me, I have occassionally recieved the SD station at night with my small indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the area had luck recieving this station and have an idea of what antenna i should get?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Here's antenna web.org I don't know if they will help in your situation but give it a try.


I know it's not cheap but the other answer to your problem is cable. I have no problems with WKYC at all via Time Warner.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions on large directional antennae and pre-amps?
> 
> 
> I've been considering getting an outdoor antenna for a while now, and now with the crap WKYC is doing I am probably going to get one with in a month or so.
> 
> 
> I guess the station I will be trying for is NBC 24 out of Toledo, that is the nearest NBC from me. About 70miles from me, I have occassionally recieved the SD station at night with my small indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the area had luck recieving this station and have an idea of what antenna i should get?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Why don't you contact Cleveland Antenna Service and let them figure it out for you.

They are professionals and many people have posted favorable comments about them.

Call Jim West

Cleveland Antenna Service

18020 Bennett Rd

N Royalton, Oh

Phone: (440) 237-6888


----------



## JJkizak

Craigv:

I occasionally receive analog channel 13 from Toledo, but only sometimes and most of the time it's pretty snowy.

JJK


----------



## Inundated

Umm, good luck on that WNWO-DT thing.



> Quote:
> WNWO-TV OH TOLEDO USA (Digital)
> 
> Licensee: WNWO LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
> 
> Service Designation: DT Digital television station
> 
> Channel: 49 680 - 686 MHz Licensed
> 
> Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 59. kW ERP



That's right, 59KW.


Here's the map out of their 41 dBu service area:











OK, maybe not as bad as it sounds, but note that you'll have almost no shot at DT49 the closer you get to analog 49 in this market, WEAO/Akron.


----------



## stuart628

hey anyone know what happened to woio's weather subchannel? it was up one week (nothing being broadcast, and gone the next)


Note:I am not saying I want it, as that would probably put CBS Hd inline with NBC, but I am just curious why they put it up for a week.


----------



## KenNEO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks fo replying! I do have another question for you if you can help. On the cable remote there is a button at the bottom that says "aspect" that doesn't do anything. On my old Time Warner Box it would squish the images or stretch the image to fit my needs. I hate watching 4x3 material stretched to fill a 16x9 screen.
> 
> I now have no options as the cable box just doesn't do it.
> 
> 
> Is this how yours works too?



The "aspect" button does nothing on mine too. I have to use the TV's controls to try to adjust the image stretch and zoom. Many TVs don't give you the option to unstretch the 16x9 HDTV material. I also hate watching stretched 4x3. We can only hope that someday the TV stations will wake up and realize how bad this looks.


----------



## pbarach

When TWC took over for Adelphia in northeastern Ohio, they added a lot of free material to the "adelphia on demand" choices. Now it's all going away, and so are the items in the subscription "on demand" services (e.g. HBO, Showtime). As items reach their expiration date, they disappear from the list and new ones do _not_ take their place.


Anybody talked to TWC about this?


----------



## craigv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Umm, good luck on that WNWO-DT thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's right, 59KW.
> 
> 
> Here's the map out of their 41 dBu service area:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, maybe not as bad as it sounds, but note that you'll have almost no shot at DT49 the closer you get to analog 49 in this market, WEAO/Akron.



Thanks for the info, i might just have to settle for the analog station of WNWO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When TWC took over for Adelphia in northeastern Ohio, they added a lot of free material to the "adelphia on demand" choices. Now it's all going away, and so are the items in the subscription "on demand" services (e.g. HBO, Showtime). As items reach their expiration date, they disappear from the list and new ones do _not_ take their place.
> 
> 
> Anybody talked to TWC about this?



Have YOU talked to them about it (1-888-683-1000)? I can only imagine the many different responses you would get. If you have some time to kill call them at various times of the day and see how many different answers you get to your question.










Or maybe your a busy person and that's why you asked here.







I would guess their response will be "We will be adding more programing around (insert date here)."


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenNEO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The "aspect" button does nothing on mine too. I have to use the TV's controls to try to adjust the image stretch and zoom. Many TVs don't give you the option to unstretch the 16x9 HDTV material. I also hate watching stretched 4x3. We can only hope that someday the TV stations will wake up and realize how bad this looks.



Thanks. Unfortunately my TV does not have the option to "unstretch" stretched images. I can zoom, smart stretch, dot by dot and stretch. No option for compressing the image back to 4x3. So I am stuck watching all non 16x9 material on NBC stretched. When I had Time Warner I at least could switch to the Youngstown NBC affiliate.....who even though they are a much smaller station in a smaller market, actually properly pillar box the 4x3 images instead of stretching them.


Oh well. Thanks.


----------



## hookbill

Hey Nascar fans, looks like the squeaky wheel gets greased. 



*NASCAR Fans Speak - WKYC Listens


We noted earlier that members of NASCAR Nation were not happy over the weekend, when local NBC affiliate WKYC/3 pre-empted much of Sunday's race for a previously-scheduled Cleveland Indians game.


It looks like WKYC is going to do its best to avoid another such, umm, crash, in October.


The Indians are scheduled to play on Channel 3 on October 1st, which will conflict with another NASCAR race. WKYC programmer Terry Moir tells Akron Beacon Journal TV columnist R.D. Heldenfels that the station "is in discussions about swapping" that day's Indians game with SportsTime Ohio for another game.


Why didn't Channel 3 do this in the first place?


Moir says the station didn't want to switch another game with STO "too soon" after doing so just last month. That switch apparently didn't involve NASCAR, with fans who roar nearly as loud as the engines in their favorite drivers' cars.


That roar was apparently heard. Moir's ears are probably still ringing. She says it was never WKYC's "intention to upset people"...*


----------



## icicle22

I don't get STO in HI DEF so I look forward to the WKYC broadcasts......damn!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> The problem with all of that is that they do not split up the analog and digital signals. I know stations that have put different sub-programming on subchannels, but WKYC only has the analog/HD simulcast (which is basically required by FCC law to run whatever is on the analog channel), and Weather Plus, which is required by contract to run 24/7.



Not quite true on the FCC requirement. What _is_ a true FCC "law" is that at least one service on a DT signal has to be free to air (i.e. not an encrypted, subscription or data feed). They can have such services, as long as one subchannel is in the clear.


As was already adressed in another post WOIO showed different NCAA playoff games on analog and digital. WVIZ carries a totally different schedule every day on the digital feed than what is carried on their analog channel.


As for the NBC and NASCAR - you would have a better chance getting WFMJ out of Youngstown. I get their analog signal on ch 21 every day, usually a bit snowy, sometimes very clear. When the analog is clear, I can also get the digital signal on ch 20. They are due to up the power on their digital, so I hope I can get that signal 24/7 (I do get WKBN-DT ch 41 24/7 today). I'm getting these stations in Parma due south of the Cleveland transmitters! I do see some inteference from the analog WOIO on the analog WFMJ. But for being as close as I am (the tower lights reflect off my neighbor's windows on clear nights) I glad I can get an alternative NBC, CBS, and FOX.


Go to this website and enter the call letters of the stations you want to receive:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html 

For WKBN-DT the coverage map shows that signal reaching from west of Strongsville all the way to greater Pittsburgh!


BTW: for the poster who wanted to know about WFMJ carrying Browns games, the station he really needs is WKBN-DT. They are CBS-HD and FOX SD (on a subchannel which carrier the LP FOX station WYFX). Last year WKBN and WYFX carried a total of 12 games that differed from what WOIO and WJW carried. That means that if you could have received bots sets of affilliates you would have access to more NFL games than with just Cleveland sations alone - all for free (well almost free, you have to buy a good directional UHF antenna and mont it high enough up to get Youngstown).


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't get STO in HI DEF so I look forward to the WKYC broadcasts......damn!



you wont be missing a thing, just a different day.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW: for the poster who wanted to know about WFMJ carrying Browns games, the station he really needs is WKBN-DT. They are CBS-HD and FOX SD (on a subchannel which carrier the LP FOX station WYFX). Last year WKBN and WYFX carried a total of 12 games that differed from what WOIO and WJW carried. That means that if you could have received bots sets of affilliates you would have access to more NFL games than with just Cleveland sations alone - all for free (well almost free, you have to buy a good directional UHF antenna and mont it high enough up to get Youngstown).



And in 5.1 on KBN's CBS channel....


----------



## stuart628

Michael My neighbor is after wkbn as they are convinced they will show most of the steelers games, so I am going to give them what they want, and tune that station in for them, even though I have told them, they are not a steelers station! But I cant wait for football games!


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Michael My neighbor is after wkbn as they are convinced they will show most of the steelers games, so I am going to give them what they want, and tune that station in for them, even though I have told them, they are not a steelers station! But I cant wait for football games!



I just moved from Warren/Youngstown area and can tell you they always show Browns games over the Steelers games if the times are the same. This area of Ohio is the halfway mark between Pitt and Cleveland and is split pretty evenly between fans. However the nod always goes in Clevelands favor as far as WKBN broadcasts are concerned.


----------



## kosar1985

did anyone else lose their hd locals from D*.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just moved from Warren/Youngstown area and can tell you they always show Browns games over the Steelers games if the times are the same. This area of Ohio is the halfway mark between Pitt and Cleveland and is split pretty evenly between fans. However the nod always goes in Clevelands favor as far as WKBN broadcasts are concerned.



thats what I was trying to tell them, they already have time warner, but if they gain one steelers game a year, it was money well spent!


----------



## stuart628

by the way. fox had football for SD for half a game and then switched to HD, kinda weird.


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> by the way. fox had football for SD for half a game and then switched to HD, kinda weird.



I tuned in with 11 minutes left in the second quarter and it was HD. This was OTA from Fox 8.


Comparing it to WKYC 3's (NBC's actually) game broadcast quality it was no contest, FOX wins hands down OTA. A gorgeous picture. Maybe because of no NFL for a while on NBC they are playing catchup? Although they did have the Olympics and those were okay ('cept for sound).


As I didn't have the HD setup last college season I can't atest for NBC's quality during any of those football broadcasts. Were they as bad as we are seeing on Sunday Night Football?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tuned in with 11 minutes left in the second quarter and it was HD. This was OTA from Fox 8.
> 
> 
> Comparing it to WKYC 3's (NBC's actually) game broadcast quality it was no contest, FOX wins hands down OTA. A gorgeous picture. Maybe because of no NFL for a while on NBC they are playing catchup? Although they did have the Olympics and those were okay ('cept for sound).
> 
> 
> As I didn't have the HD setup last college season I can't atest for NBC's quality during any of those football broadcasts. Were they as bad as we are seeing on Sunday Night Football?



FOX=720p

NBC=1080i


That could be the reason.


----------



## Inundated

I tuned in to FOX 8 for the game, and it looked great. Best FOX football HD I've ever seen. The closeups, in particular, had that "through the window" looking quality.


720p/1080i basically means that 1080i stations which multicast (like WKYC) have to deal with lower bandwidth...1080i needs more bandwidth, and subchannels don't help that. That produces effects such as macroblocking.


720p stations can actually fit in another subchannel and still not take much of a hit on PQ. And since FOX 8 doesn't even have a subchannel...there you go.


----------



## MusicAngel99

I don't think this will effect any Dish Network subscribers, as DishDVR is the brand of DVR box that they have, but what about DirectTV users? Any thoughts on this?

--------------

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - A judge has ordered EchoStar to disable the digital video recorders used by several million subscribers to its Dish satellite TV service because they infringe on patents held by TiVo.


Thursday's ruling from U.S. District Judge David Folsom in Marshall, Texas, demands that within 30 days EchoStar must basically render useless all but 192,708 of the DVR units it has deployed.

The decision comes four months after a jury ruled that EchoStar should pay TiVo $74.9 million because it willfully infringed TiVo patents that allow for the digital storage of TV programming.


The judge also denied EchoStar's request that the injunction be stayed pending appeal, making it difficult for EchoStar to continue offering its subscribers' DVR functionality without striking a quick licensing deal with TiVo or another DVR maker.


While the injunction battle clearly was won by TiVo, the scrappy pioneer of the DVR industry also was handed a loss Thursday when Folsom ruled against its request that the jury award be tripled. The judge, however, ordered EchoStar to pay an additional $5.4 million in interest payments and $10.3 million in supplemental damages, bringing the amount EchoStar owes TiVo to nearly $90 million.


NO BAD FAITH


In ruling against treble damages, Folsom noted that EchoStar was not allowed to present evidence that it received outside legal advice indicating that the DVRs it created did not infringe TiVo's patents. That EchoStar sought such advice before TiVo sued it "could demonstrate a lack of willfulness" on the part of EchoStar, the judge wrote in denying TiVo's request of treble damages.


"The evidence does not show the defendants acted in bad faith, nor does the jury's willfulness finding amount to a finding of bad faith," Folsom wrote.


In asking for an injunction, TiVo argued that, while it would become extinct if unable to protect its patents and sell its DVRs, EchoStar's primary business of satellite TV transmissions does not depend on its ability to offer DVRs.


EchoStar claimed, among other arguments, that TiVo's motive in filing a lawsuit was to gain additional leverage over EchoStar and other prospective business partners in order to strike lucrative licensing deals.


The vast majority of TiVo subscribers, in fact, come by way of a licensing agreement with EchoStar competitor DirecTV. Another agreement with cable giant Comcast Corp. won't bear fruit until later this year, and TiVo has had trouble lining up other big players in the pay TV market, who mostly have been offering their customers generic DVRs.


Siding with TiVo, Folsom wrote that one thing both companies agreed on is that DVR customers are "sticky," meaning that once they obtain a DVR they stick with it, so business that TiVo has been losing to EchoStar might not be recovered without a ruling of infringement.


'CRITICAL TIME'


TiVo, the judge wrote, "is losing market share at a critical time in the market's development -- market share that it will not have the same opportunity to capture once the market matures."


EchoStar also claimed that the timing of TiVo's lawsuit -- several years after EchoStar began selling DVRs -- amounted to proof that it was not suffering irreparable injury. Folsom, though, noted that TiVo hadn't sued EchoStar sooner because it was trying to enter into a business deal with it.


EchoStar also said an injunction would unduly hurt its business, an argument Folsom was not entirely unsympathetic to -- though, again, he came down on the side of TiVo.


"Although the injunction will likely result in some degree of customer loss and will impact (EchoStar's) ability to compete in the market, (EchoStar) will not be irreparably harmed," he wrote.


Folsom's ruling was filed after the close of regular and after-hours trading on Wall Street, so it did not affect the share prices of EchoStar and TiVo. When TiVo won its jury trial in April, its shares moved up 23 percent in after-hours trading, though the stock has since given back much of that gain.


TiVo shares closed up fractionally Thursday to $6.49, while EchoStar shares fell 1.1 percent to $32.75.


Reuters/Hollywood Reporter


----------



## MusicAngel99

One more about this, as it seems Echostar DOES make the Dish Network ones:


Judge blocks order to shut down 4 million Echostar DVRs

By Wolfgang Gruener

Published Friday 18th August 2006 13:56 GMT



Englewood (CO) - A federal appeals court temporarily blocked an earlier ruling of an U.S. District Court judge in Texas that would have given Echostar Communications, better known as the operator of the Dish Network, to shut down its service to more than four million DVR devices and pay $89.6 million in damages to Tivo, which sued Echostar in 2004 for patent infringement.


Echostar's stock has been sent on a roller coaster ride early this morning after a U.S. District Court Judge David Folsom granted Tivo a "permanent" injunction against Echostar Communications that ordered the company to "stop making, using, offering for sale or selling in the United States their DVR products," including the models DP-501, DP-508, DP-510, DP-721, DP-921, DP-522, DP-625, DP-942, "and all Echostar DVRs that are not more than colorably different from any of these products." The ruling would have included the shutdown of the service and essentially the functionality of more than four million devices currently used by Dish Network subscribers within 30 days.




language=JavaScript type=text/javascript>



Judge Folsom also ordered Echostar to pay Tivo approximately $73.992 million in damages, interest in the amount of $5.638 million as well as supplemental damages in the amount of $10.317 million.


After losing $1.98 or 6% of its value, Echostar's stock recovered to a loss of only 1% in early afternoon trading on Friday when the company announced that the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C. temporarily blocked an injunction issued by a Texas Court. Echostar said that the appeals court "considers a longer-term stay of that injunction." As a result, Echostar can continue to sell and operate all of its digital video recorder models. In a statement released on Friday, the firm said that it believes that the "Texas decision was wrong, and should be reversed on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future alleged infringement."


Tivo sued Echostar in Federal District Court on 5 January 2004, alleging that ECC and certain subsidiaries are violating U.S. Patent 6,233,389 issued to TiVo in May 2001, known as the "Time Warp" patent. The Time Warp patent describes systems and methods for the simultaneous storage and playback of programs, supporting advanced capabilities such as pausing live television, fast-forwarding, rewinding, instant replays, and slow motion. On 13 April 2006, a Texas jury agreed with Tivo that Echostar "willfully" infringed Tivo's Time Warp patent.


Echostar is the second-largest satellite TV provider in the U.S. with a customer base of about 12.5 million subscribers.


----------



## hookbill

It's not going to affect D*. They had an agreement with TiVo and are now distributing their own DVR's with their own software. TiVo was the software that was used by D* previously.


But the implications this will have on E* could be tremendous. MusicAngel could you be kind enough to post the link to this publication? I don't doubt the authenticity at all, I would like to forward this information to someone else.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 720p/1080i basically means that 1080i stations which multicast (like WKYC) have to deal with lower bandwidth...1080i needs more bandwidth, and subchannels don't help that. That produces effects such as macroblocking.
> 
> 
> 720p stations can actually fit in another subchannel and still not take much of a hit on PQ. And since FOX 8 doesn't even have a subchannel...there you go.



Yeah, but I'm watching 27.1 out of Youngstown, and the game tonight looks beautiful. That's 1080i WITH a full-motion subchannel.... and 5.1 audio. KYC's Weather Plus has very limited actual movement, and it should lend itself better to being a subchannel without destroying the PQ on the main station.


If KBN can do it, why can't KYC?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, but I'm watching 27.1 out of Youngstown, and the game tonight looks beautiful. That's 1080i WITH a full-motion subchannel.... and 5.1 audio. KYC's Weather Plus has very limited actual movement, and it should lend itself better to being a subchannel without destroying the PQ on the main station.
> 
> 
> If KBN can do it, why can't KYC?



I'd blame the encoder. Remember, WKYC had that "fuzzy" problem at least in the first NBC SNF game, and their encoder is probably not up to the latest specs.


WKBN, meanwhile, just got their HD signal up and running.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tuned in with 11 minutes left in the second quarter and it was HD. This was OTA from Fox 8.
> 
> 
> Comparing it to WKYC 3's (NBC's actually) game broadcast quality it was no contest, FOX wins hands down OTA. A gorgeous picture. Maybe because of no NFL for a while on NBC they are playing catchup? Although they did have the Olympics and those were okay ('cept for sound).
> 
> 
> As I didn't have the HD setup last college season I can't atest for NBC's quality during any of those football broadcasts. Were they as bad as we are seeing on Sunday Night Football?



dont know when the switch was, but it was there, I am getting it OTA...Unlesss my box just went to the SD station, but I flipped back later and it was beautiful football as usual!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dont know when the switch was, but it was there, I am getting it OTA...Unlesss my box just went to the SD station, but I flipped back later and it was beautiful football as usual!



There really isn't much "switch flipping" problem with FOX stations, since the splicer pretty much handles it automatically. I can't remember ever seeing WJW miss an HD "switch".


----------



## rRooster

This is off topic - but did anyone notice that Bernie Kosar seemed quite intoxicated during last night's game?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is off topic - but did anyone notice that Bernie Kosar seemed quite intoxicated during last night's game?



I didn't notice. But I was quite intoxicated myself.


----------



## stuart628

I noticed his legs shook......ALOT! like he was really nervous! then they started cracking on his running skills and he shut up. LOL


----------



## hookbill

Well, I made the decision. Despite all the bad crap about D* lately and their "HD Lite" and whatever, I have decided to switch. I'm not even going to give TW a chance.


The reason is the DVR, and I cannot have an HD TiVo because I don't have a land line phone. American Satallite says they can hook up the D* HD-DVR even with a dead land line (I talked to a supervisor on this) so this Wednesday it's by by TW, Hello D*


I even ordered a box for my parrots room so they don't have to look at OTA crap anymore.










Am I crazy or what?


Oh I'll still keep the high speed internet.


----------



## Inundated

Hookbill? Didn't you have tree issues regarding D*? Or is the satellite installer gonna come with a chainsaw, too?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill? Didn't you have tree issues regarding D*? Or is the satellite installer gonna come with a chainsaw, too?



Well, it's kinda going to work like this. You see the wife is going out of town. She will be gone for 4 days. She has prohibited me from sticking that dish in the front yard. But too bad, so sad...that's where it's going







.


So when she gets home she will probably be p.o.d, but oh well...she won't divorce me over it. I'll probably get a minor beating at best.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So when she gets home she will probably be p.o.d, but oh well...she won't divorce me over it. I'll probably get a minor beating at best.



Please tell me that at least the monthly bill is going to be lower. Otherwise, Hook, I'm concerned about your safety.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Oh, Hook, is the _new_ mpeg-4 HD-DVR available yet? I think it was called the HRD-250 or something.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I made the decision. Despite all the bad crap about D* lately and their "HD Lite" and whatever, I have decided to switch. I'm not even going to give TW a chance.



Didn't think it would ever happen....

If you get the HD-tivo HR10-250 up and running, I think you'll be pleased. Welcome to the club.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, Hook, is the _new_ mpeg-4 HD-DVR available yet? I think it was called the HRD-250 or something.



I could have sworn I read in this forum that it was available but maybe I am wrong, maybe they are just broadcasting in HD over the satallite.


The one they show on D*'s website looks like that one however if you actually go to order it it's still the TiVo based software.


Oh, and thanks for your concern on my welfare.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Didn't think it would ever happen....
> 
> If you get the HD-tivo HR10-250 up and running, I think you'll be pleased. Welcome to the club.



Tom or anyone who might know, since my TV is only "HD Ready" does the HR10-250 have the capability of converting OTA channels? There is an outdoor antennae I can buy to attach to my dish for this purpose but if it won't convert those signals it wouldn't make sense to buy one.


----------



## terryfoster

Yes, the HR10-250 has dual ATSC tuners for OTA reception.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, Hook, is the _new_ mpeg-4 HD-DVR available yet? I think it was called the HRD-250 or something.



The D* MPEG4 HD-DVR has just been released and there are some reviews available out there on the net.


----------



## ZManCartFan

What about the HR20-250? That's the new one, right? The one with mpeg-4?


I think I saw that it's being distributed out on the west coast (or maybe it's being called the HR20-700 now; I couldn't tell in the brief time I had to research last night). Any info on when it might appear here on the north coast?


I've had D* for 6 or 7 years now, and I've been an HD subscriber for 3. I'd love to upgrade to a TiVO, but I've been waiting for the locals to be available in HD and a DVR that can support them. If anybody has been able to get it done here in Cleveland, I'd love to hear about it -- especially if there are some magic "customer retention" words to use when calling.


Thanks!


----------



## stuart628

Hr20-700 is the New Directv HD reciever, it is available in L.A. only. Our locals are up on Directv's Sat's but only in MPEG4. The HR10-250 (tivo Hd reciever) can not handle Mpeg4, you will need the HR20-700 due sometime next month according to everyone in the Know. If you have a HD Dvr now, its a free upgrade, if you dont its a 299 or 399 price. enjoy, oh and they both Have Dual OTA tuners, BUT the HR20-700 is disabled right now ( meaning you can only record sat. channels, you dont even get OTA channels) they are rumored to be enabled later, but you never know DIrectv just might force you to go to their Sat Locals.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Thank you. That was exactly the info I was looking for.


Couple things, though. Did the name change from HR20-250 to HR20-700? Or is there still a 250 model floating around out there somewhere?


And what about the dish upgrade itself? Aren't the new locals on a 5-LNB dish? Any luck getting that upgrade paid for by D*? Or is that included with the $299 or $399?


And does the upgrade cost you your old receiver? In other words, do I have to trade it in?


----------



## stuart628

#1 Has always been 700, 250 is the Hard drive size, but 700 is model Number


#2 included in Upgrade price


#3 if you own or lease a HD OR HD DVR the rumor is you trade them in for a leased HR20-700, I am not sure but according to many even if you have a Regular HD reciever you get the Hr20-700 for free.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> #3 if you own or lease a HD OR HD DVR the rumor is you trade them in for a leased HR20-700, I am not sure but according to many even if you have a Regular HD reciever you get the Hr20-700 for free.



Thanks again. I truly appreciate it.


I think I'll wait until this shakes out a bit. I paid $1,000 for a Sony HD-200 a few years back, and I don't want to lose it. Since I own it, I'm not going to trade it in for a leased box. I want to keep what's mine, and I just can't logically make the connection between losing a grand and making indefinite payments for a leased one.


I realize, of course, that nothing in life is truly free. If I have to buy a new box, so be it. But given D*'s propensity to want to control long-term contracts, I imagine that once all of the early adopters get on the bandwagon and D* is stretching for new customers, there will be better deals to be had.


----------



## Ben Music

From what I understand,the (700) in the model #HR20-700 indicates who was the manufactuer of the unit, and in this case it was Pace. Pace is a long time maker of set top boxes for the cable industry among others.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, the HR10-250 has dual ATSC tuners for OTA reception.



I went to CC and took a look at one. I didn't see the dual ATSC tuner and the sales drone said they didn't have one but he was also convinced (at first) that it was capable of receivng the local digitals from the satellite.


He also showed me the antenna that clips on top of the dish. They wanted 70.00 for that and D has it for 49.00.


Also in my conversations with D* they are saying that an upgrade to the H 20 may not be free.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went to CC and took a look at one. I didn't see the dual ATSC tuner and the sales drone said they didn't have one but he was also convinced (at first) that it was capable of receivng the local digitals from the satellite.



Hi Hook,

The HR10-250 has dual ota & sat tuners. Only one ota coax input which is split inside. You can record 2 channels(sat or ota) in HD at same time and watch another that's been recorded. The HDTivo(HR10-250) outputs all channels to whichever output format you set. Meaning, if you switch to an SD channel it will still output 1080i or whichever format you set. Maybe you knew all this.


If possible, push to have the 5lnb dish installed, that way when the HR20-250(mpeg4 DVR) receiver comes out, you'll only have to switch receivers - not the dish. Just to clarify, the HR10-250 can only receive the Cleveland locals in HD via ota. You can subscribe to SD cleveland locals which works fine on the HR10-250.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Hook,
> 
> If possible, push to have the 5lnb dish installed, that way when the HR20-250(mpeg4 DVR) receiver comes out, you'll only have to switch receivers - not the dish. Just to clarify, the HR10-250 can only receive the Cleveland locals in HD via ota. You can subscribe to SD cleveland locals which works fine on the HR10-250.



The picture I see appears to be the 5LNB you can see here . I am comparing this with a picture of what I see at D*'s web site. I believe it is the correct dish and that D* is telling installers to only install this at this time.


----------



## MusicAngel99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not going to affect D*. They had an agreement with TiVo and are now distributing their own DVR's with their own software. TiVo was the software that was used by D* previously.
> 
> 
> But the implications this will have on E* could be tremendous. MusicAngel could you be kind enough to post the link to this publication? I don't doubt the authenticity at all, I would like to forward this information to someone else.



Hookbill - I will have to ask my friend where she got it since she emailed it to me. By looking at the model numbers referenced in the article, it looks like ours is one of those, even though it does say DishDVR....???


----------



## stuart628

HookBIll, I will say this, because I have directv right now, Their Dvr's have been known in the past to miss some recordings, especially if you have alot of them going (dont lie you know you do!







) they are not the best ones out there at this point, but the insiders say they will get better. Also with that dish, it is heavier, and it tends to go out of alignment more easily, because it is a Ka band sat (thast what they use for the HD Locals) it has only a small window to get aligned in, and a slight bump, or strong wind could/will throw it out of alignment for some satellites. I have always said, the moment Directv makes me upgrade past my 3 lnb dish, then I am going back to time warner, As I really dont like those, and their have been complaints, ALOT of them not getting installed right. But if you can make it past these things, and I make them sound bad when really they probably are not. Then I think you will enjoy Directv, I do.



edit: By the way, a judge has blocked the ruling, and Dish network does not have to shut down their recievers. Go to Dbstalk and/or Satelliteguys.us....Infact Hookbill go to thoes sites and snoop around, you will learn ALOT about satellite stuff.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HookBIll, I will say this, because I have directv right now, Their Dvr's have been known in the past to miss some recordings, especially if you have alot of them going (dont lie you know you do!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) they are not the best ones out there at this point, but the insiders say they will get better. Also with that dish, it is heavier, and it tends to go out of alignment more easily, because it is a Ka band sat (thast what they use for the HD Locals) it has only a small window to get aligned in, and a slight bump, or strong wind could/will throw it out of alignment for some satellites. I have always said, the moment Directv makes me upgrade past my 3 lnb dish, then I am going back to time warner, As I really dont like those, and their have been complaints, ALOT of them not getting installed right. But if you can make it past these things, and I make them sound bad when really they probably are not. Then I think you will enjoy Directv, I do.
> 
> 
> 
> edit: By the way, a judge has blocked the ruling, and Dish network does not have to shut down their recievers. Go to Dbstalk and/or Satelliteguys.us....Infact Hookbill go to thoes sites and snoop around, you will learn ALOT about satellite stuff.



One of the reasons I went with the American Satellite was because they have an outstanding reputation. If I have any problems I can go back to them and they will take care of it - not Direct TV. I'm not new at all to satallite tv and I'm very familiar with the TiVo software that is in the current model I'm getting. I had two D-Tivo's in the past, though not HD.


The SA 8300 that I have does not work well with my external hard drive and even independent of that it misses recordings, records partial shows, has a terrible search feature, no real season pass and can cause conflicts and miss recordings unless you check it every day. Oh and the external hard drive I use is the one recommended as best to use with the SA 8300, its a Maxtor which is the same hard drive that is in it.


My experience with the SA 8300 has left me very frustrated from time to time and forced me to have to do things on the internet that we know we're not suppose to do. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.










I'm looking forward to my installation which has been moved to Thursday now because I had to change my order a bit.







And I would suggest stuart628 you may want to take a look at the TiVo Community Forum - there is a lot of knowledge there as well.


----------



## paule123

Hook,

I have D* at the office, and the clip-on antenna (a Terk that IMHO can be VHF only) is a POS. It won't pick up anything OTA from Mayfield Village, but I am in an unusual environment - metal clad buildings all around, so YMMV.


----------



## paule123

Does anybody have the ability to check WOIO-DT's bandwidth? (Indundated?







)


Someone earlier mentioned that WOIO experimented with a weather subchannel and I wonder if they didn't put the bandwidth back to the main channel. I say this based on the Friday night NFL game. There was a little bit of macroblocking on fast motion that I don't remember seeing from CBS last season.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> I have D* at the office, and the clip-on antenna (a Terk that IMHO can be VHF only) is a POS. It won't pick up anything OTA from Mayfield Village, but I am in an unusual environment - metal clad buildings all around, so YMMV.



Before they sold me the clip job they did do a test to see if it would work in my area. I'm going to have them stick the dish probably in front of my house maybe 100 ft or so on a pole. That should give it a clear view of the southern sky and if it needs adjusting it will be easy to get to. I'm in the woods so I have a lot of trees to deal with.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anybody have the ability to check WOIO-DT's bandwidth? (Indundated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I don't have any software that'll do it, or any way to analyze saved video...though my Fusion5USB HDTV card is pretty much confined to cable QAM these days anyway










(And there is no "d" after the first "n" in my login name.







)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (And there is no "d" after the first "n" in my login name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I am currently inundated with a few Coronas










I have an OnAir GT on order so hopefully I can do some OTA and QAM screen caps. Although it looks like the networks have worked out most of the glitches for NFL HD football so I might not have much to ***** about hehe...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Before they sold me the clip job they did do a test to see if it would work in my area. I'm going to have them stick the dish probably in front of my house maybe 100 ft or so on a pole. That should give it a clear view of the southern sky and if it needs adjusting it will be easy to get to. I'm in the woods so I have a lot of trees to deal with.



Make sure you have the option to return the clipon antenna after practical testing after installation.


I also have heard bad things from several sources about the clipon antenna, and also I agree with paule123 that YMMV.


----------



## hookbill

You know how I was complaining about my install being pushed back? Well, I went to D*'s web site and logged in and right there was my install date and a button to click to change install date. I clicked it and got Wednesday morning, my original date back.


It probably took the weekend to clear out and make it available again. Only 2 days to go and bye bye cable (well, cable tv anyway).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not new at all to satallite tv and I'm very familiar with the TiVo software that is in the current model I'm getting. I had two D-Tivo's in the past, though not HD.



I don't know for sure, but I think stuart628 might have been talking about the new D* branded DVRs rather than the DTivos.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know for sure, but I think stuart628 might have been talking about the new D* branded DVRs rather than the DTivos.



Yeah, I really don't know what's up with those. I guess I'll find out if they do a switch out.


----------



## gzath

Well, this week, there seems to be yet again some slight improvement to the blurries, but they are still there. Overall it's no longer distracting like it was for the HOF game.


FOX still gets my vote for best PQ with some good posts on the previous forums page giving possible reasons for the differences between KYC and FOX..


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I really don't know what's up with those. I guess I'll find out if they do a switch out.



yeah I was talking about Directv Dvrs, Tivo is generally rock solid (unless directv is messin with the guide data! dang you Directv DANG YOU!)


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Did anybody else notice how strong the WFMJ-DT signal was last night? I was able to pick it up with my big outdoor antenna pointed straight at the Parma antenna farm. That's about 90 degrees away from Y-town for me. I'm wondering if I was just experiencing good atmospherics last night or if WFMJ-DT has boosted their output up to 460 kW. I did not notice any improvement in the WKBN-DT signal - I was not able to receive them without turning the antenna.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anybody else notice how strong the WFMJ-DT signal was last night? I was able to pick it up with my big outdoor antenna pointed straight at the Parma antenna farm. That's about 90 degrees away from Y-town for me. I'm wondering if I was just experiencing good atmospherics last night or if WFMJ-DT has boosted their output up to 460 kW. I did not notice any improvement in the WKBN-DT signal - I was not able to receive them without turning the antenna.




No change here. The antenna is sitting in Maine waiting to roll down here.


----------



## lefkas

Has anyone out there ever been able to pick up either CNN or Fox News using a QAM tuner hooked into basic Time Warner Cable ? I can get the local stations and a few others like E !, Encore and the TV Guide Network, but no cable news.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone out there ever been able to pick up either CNN or Fox News using a QAM tuner hooked into basic Time Warner Cable ? I can get the local stations and a few others like E !, Encore and the TV Guide Network, but no cable news.



You should be grateful for that.


----------



## Inundated

Generally speaking, not much is available on "in the clear" QAM aside from the local broadcast outlets HD/DT feeds and a handful of other things.


On the now-former Adelphia side of TWC, we get such things as TNTHD, Discovery HD and the HD channel for the Indians and Cavs, along with WKYC's Weather Plus feed, WVIZ's feed of The Ohio Channel and some others.


You're not likely to find CNN/FOX News/MSNBC/etc. in the clear on QAM, though, on any system.


----------



## RussTC3

Is there a resource on the net or elsewhere which will show you what is available in the clear through QAM?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there a resource on the net or elsewhere which will show you what is available in the clear through QAM?



This would be the resource you're looking for. Ask and somebody may provide the most current availability. The problem is that the channels available in the clear change too frequently for a service to track. Not to mention cable cos accidently leave some channels unencrypted and correct the problem usually within days.


The only reliable set of channels you should expect to receive are the digital local broadcasts carried by your cable co. Anything else is a lucky bonus because you never know how long you'll have them.


----------



## hookbill

Well, I don't have to be told a third time. No D* for me. I can't get regular D* let along HD. We traveled all over our property line, even line sighted from our neighbors dish and there is just no where I can put the dish on my property.


The guy really tried. He said he doesn't get paid if there is no install. He did say he might be able to set it up on this one tree in my front yard but he couldn't do that on duty, it would have to be under the table. I said no. So I've got TW coming out to see if there is anything they can do to improve my DVR problems, which I doubt they can but will have them take a look.


My DVR problem is it misses programs that are set to record at all times. (no conflict).


It does partial recordings on HD locals even though it appears it is recording the entire show. Premium channels and other HD or standard definition shows are not a problem.


I'm really bummed. He said if I cut down these 4 trees in my back yard I could probably get a signal, but I would also get a pan upside my head from wife.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, not much is available on "in the clear" QAM aside from the local broadcast outlets HD/DT feeds and a handful of other things.
> 
> 
> On the now-former Adelphia side of TWC, we get such things as TNTHD, Discovery HD and the HD channel for the Indians and Cavs, along with WKYC's Weather Plus feed, WVIZ's feed of The Ohio Channel and some others.
> 
> 
> You're not likely to find CNN/FOX News/MSNBC/etc. in the clear on QAM, though, on any system.



Really ? How do you explain the following review from Audio-Visual Revolution, an online magazine, regarding a new LG HDTV model?


"I took a look at the new LG Electronics 42LB1DR ($3,400), a 42-inch LCD with a 1366 x 768 resolution, built-in HDTV and Clear QAM tuners, a CableCARD slot and a 160-gigabyte DVR capable of storing 15 hours of HDTV or 66 hours of SDTV Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 (including higher-tiered channels like Comedy Central, CNN, and ESPN), my MusicChoice music-only channels, and even my local HDTV channels."


----------



## stopper10

Ok. Important question here, what with fall premeires coming soon.... not to mention NFL!


I live downtown with a spectacular view of the lake. Only problem is HDTV OTA reception is nil for cleveland stations. I have been using the Terk HDTVi indoor antenna. I have tried it all over the apartment with no luck (well, on good days, I can pick up Toledo, Detroit, even Canadian stations, but no cleveland)


So, what am I to do? I have pointed all different directions, I have raised the antenna as far as possible, moved it all over, nothing. I am thinking possibly a new antenna.... Any suggestions/local places to buy that are recomended?


Any help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really ? How do you explain the following review from Audio-Visual Revolution, an online magazine, regarding a new LG HDTV model?
> 
> 
> "I took a look at the new LG Electronics 42LB1DR ($3,400), a 42-inch LCD with a 1366 x 768 resolution, built-in HDTV and Clear QAM tuners, a CableCARD slot and a 160-gigabyte DVR capable of storing 15 hours of HDTV or 66 hours of SDTV Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 (including higher-tiered channels like Comedy Central, CNN, and ESPN), my MusicChoice music-only channels, and even my local HDTV channels."



1. Don't believe everything you read on line.









2. Always post a link so the curious can see for themselves.

3. Inundated is never wrong.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stopper10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok. Important question here, what with fall premeires coming soon.... not to mention NFL!
> 
> 
> I live downtown with a spectacular view of the lake. Only problem is HDTV OTA reception is nil for cleveland stations. I have been using the Terk HDTVi indoor antenna. I have tried it all over the apartment with no luck (well, on good days, I can pick up Toledo, Detroit, even Canadian stations, but no cleveland)
> 
> 
> So, what am I to do? I have pointed all different directions, I have raised the antenna as far as possible, moved it all over, nothing. I am thinking possibly a new antenna.... Any suggestions/local places to buy that are recomended?
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!



Check out this post.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99



Big deal! Cable channels 2-99 are all SD analog. The true QAM channels begin at 100. They may be "mapped" to their off-air channel numbers on a cable box, however if they are truely digital, they would have a channel number that looks something like "108.1" (similar to the ASTC off-air digital channels, just a higher number).


----------



## grayta

On TWC-NEO I get all my locals QAM, as well as INHD2, HBO HDP and SHO HDP. There's some other stuff, but it's just SD. However, you have to remap the stuff every so often 'cause the "as well as" stuff can appear and disappear. Oh, and the locals have moved a few times as well. Of course, I'm not complaining-it's free!










If I have the laptop out later, I'll list the channels.


----------



## Speedskater

Cox, feeds digital copies of most of the analog channels (02-99) to channels 802 to 899, but now Cox encodes most of the stations.


----------



## Inundated

I bet that reviewer WAS seeing the analog channels up to 99, then everything else he talked about was the QAM stuff. It sounds like bad writing or editing to me.


I could very well be wrong (it does happen, Hookbill







), but I can't recall anyone getting the full complement of digital cable channels on QAM. And most systems are still pushing CNN/MSNBC/FOX News/etc. in analog. They certainly are still doing so here in Northeast Ohio, as far as I know. The only digital "substitution" I've seen or heard about involves the digital/non-HD locals...


Again, I could be wrong.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I don't have to be told a third time. No D* for me. I can't get regular D* let along HD. We traveled all over our property line, even line sighted from our neighbors dish and there is just no where I can put the dish on my property.



Not that I'm some sort of expert, but I'm surprised. The signal to the dish is at a very sharp angle. If you looked at my dish, you'd think the house next door was blocking it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not that I'm some sort of expert, but I'm surprised. The signal to the dish is at a very sharp angle. If you looked at my dish, you'd think the house next door was blocking it.



We even went to my next door neighbors house (dish) and he said that he could see where the opening was there - so could I. I've just got some huge trees, over 30 feet tall around my property. Couldn't put it out front, side, now where.


He did find a tree that he could hang it on, but of course that is not allowed.


He also offered to do an install on the tree off the books. I said no, if something went wrong what recourse would I have?


He said that he doesn't get paid if he doesn't install so I do believe he did everything possible to try and find a spot. It's just the line of site can't be caught.


----------



## terryfoster

really stupid idea, but would E*'s satellite positions work any better?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> really stupid idea, but would E*'s satellite positions work any better?



I'm not an expert but a while back I spoke with someone at Radio Shack. According the this person the position of Dish and Direct's satellite are just a degree or so off for reception. They said if I couldn't get Direct, chances are I couldn't get Dish either.


And even if I could I don't want Dish. Too many problems with their copyright on their DVR right now.


I'm stuck. Unless I cut those trees down, and that just isn't going to happen. Even when the new TiVo is released I can't use that because I don't have a land line phone and have no intentions to get one - unless their is a way to dial out by computer. Hmmm...got me thinking....


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really ? How do you explain the following review from Audio-Visual Revolution, an online magazine, regarding a new LG HDTV model?
> 
> 
> "I took a look at the new LG Electronics 42LB1DR ($3,400), a 42-inch LCD with a 1366 x 768 resolution, built-in HDTV and Clear QAM tuners, a CableCARD slot and a 160-gigabyte DVR capable of storing 15 hours of HDTV or 66 hours of SDTV Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 (including higher-tiered channels like Comedy Central, CNN, and ESPN), my MusicChoice music-only channels, and even my local HDTV channels."



There's no such thing as a "clear QAM tuner." There are only QAM tuners. Channels that are not transmitted the clear need a CableCard or other yet-to-be-developed technology to decrypt them, by law.


Like others have said here, the channels up to 99 are analog. I think the reviewer needs to review the users manual more closely.


----------



## Too_Many_options

From the Tivo web site , it appears you can use phone or internet :



Step two: Choose the phone dialing options or network settings that the DVR will use to connect to the TiVo service:


* For a phone connection, see How Do I Configure Phone Dialing Options?

* For a network connection, see Configuring TCP/IP Settings on My DVR.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Even when the new TiVo is released I can't use that because I don't have a land line phone and have no intentions to get one - unless their is a way to dial out by computer.



To elaborate on what *too_many_options* said, TiVo used to require dialing out the first time the unit was setup. New software releases no longer require this one time call and can be setup immediately to connect through your home network. So, you could use the TiVo S3 without a phone line.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To elaborate on what *too_many_options* said, TiVo used to require dialing out the first time the unit was setup. New software releases no longer require this one time call and can be setup immediately to connect through your home network. So, you could use the TiVo S3 without a phone line.



Very cool, but I can't find a release date still. Also I wonder about the cost on this puppy? I'll pay up to 500.00 but no more.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm stuck. Unless I cut those trees down, and that just isn't going to happen. Hmmm...got me thinking....



Sorry to hear your news Hookbill. Are the trees still in the way even if the dish was installed on the roof?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very cool, but I can't find a release date still. Also I wonder about the cost on this puppy? I'll pay up to 500.00 but no more.



TiVo said "Second half of 2006." Right now they're in beta testing. Nobody really knows the unit price yet, but some are speculating up to $800.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not an expert but a while back I spoke with someone at Radio Shack. According the this person the position of Dish and Direct's satellite are just a degree or so off for reception. They said if I couldn't get Direct, chances are I couldn't get Dish either.



Not quite true. It all depends on which D* orbital location is blocked. You have to be able to see the "core"orbital location at 101 deg. for D*. E*'s core is at 119 deg. That's a wee bit more than just "a degree or so". The two services share 110 deg., which is 9 degrees from 101 and 119 deg which is 19 degrees from 101. For E* if you can see 110, 119 and either 129 or 61.5 ( 61.5 requires a 2nd dish aimed SE ) you are all set. 129 will have most of the HD locals and the "VOOM" channels. 61.5 also has the VOOM channels. There are parts of the country that cannot see 129, that is partially why 61.5 has duplicate HD channels.


BTW: Charlie Ergen (E*'s CEO and major stock holder) will not go quietly on the TIVO suit. There is specuilation on the DBS boards that E* will buy out TIVO, if necessary, to get out of the current jam they are in.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear your news Hookbill. Are the trees still in the way even if the dish was installed on the roof?



Very much in the way. We tried roof, even went into the woods on my property to see if there was anyplace. The front yard is large but when a tree isn't in the way, the house itself is.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TiVo said "Second half of 2006." Right now they're in beta testing. Nobody really knows the unit price yet, but some are speculating up to $800.



Ouch! It's worth it to me but trying to explain it to wife is another story. Since she doesn't see the difference between HD and standard def she thinks if the DVR messes up it's just fine for me to go on the internet and...you know. So long as she doesn't miss the program and the voice tracking is reasonably close, that's all she cares about.


She's also told me the solution to the DVR recording problem is to just record in SD.







Obviously she has some vision problems, may explain why she married me.


----------



## grayta

Current TWC North Canton QAM HD Channels unscrambled (by position on my LG3510a):


80.1 NBC

104.2 ABC

104.3 FOX

108.1 CBS

108.2 UPN

113.2 INHD2

113.7 SHOW HDP

113.62 HBO HDP


PBS feed is still there (80.4), but just color bars.


----------



## paule123

TWC's new website is a joke. It's actually *worse* than the old Adelphia site. Hard to beleive. I wanted to find out what their packages are for high speed internet. Put in a local zipcode, and it bounces you to an Adelphia page which asks for a zipcode again. Put that in, and it bounces you back to a TWC page that asks for a zipcode and takes you back to the Adelphia page. Ridiculous.


The website is in some aborted state between full TWC, TW "see you soon", and Adelphia.


It's amazing that nobody at these companies ever sits down and does a walk through of how a new customer would approach the website. They're still tied to the tired old business model of call the 1-800 number and speak to an illiterate sales drone.


----------



## hookbill

I went to the Macedonia location to trade in my SA 8300 for the third time the other day. There sat the same person I've seen every time I've been there. She asked me what was wrong, stopped listening after I mentioned the first problem and put the box somewhere (trash?). Then she reached over and grabbed another box (I watched her carefully to make sure she wasn't handing me the same box back) and tuned it in for me.


She mentioned that her 8300 was filling up with two recordings and SHE had returned hers recently as well.










I think you have to understand that these changes are going to take time. There is only so far a company can plan when the take over is not certain. I wouldn't expect the web pages to change really until the email and road runner are pulled on line.


But that's just me.










But look what they have done in less then a months time. They have a series of commercials in place about the take over. They gave us TNT HD and the Tube. Took away and brought back NFL Network. Taught most of the reps to say "Time Warner". That had to be a major challange considering the majority of them don't speak clear english.


I mean give credit where it is due.


----------



## hookbill

At the Macedonia office they have put a banner over the Adelphia sign that says TWC. The parking lot shows a sign for Adelphia customers to park.










But what's really funny is on the walls at the booth where they have various articles and stuff to look at where it would say Adelphia someone has cut and pasted (literally) the words Time Warner to cover the Adelphia.


Also they do apparently seem to be working off a new system of some sort because they had no trouble locating me by phone number like they did in the past at the office. The couple of times I've called in to CSR though have been different. Sometimes they find me by phone number, sometimes they have to use my address. The CSR told me the "new" system has a glitch in it.


----------



## Bill Harrison

Newbie to OTA DTV here, located in Kenmore (IE south akron).


Here is what i have so far, looking for any suggestions to eek out the last couple missing stations.


2 story house, OLD (70's?) UHF/VHF antenna on the roof, 300ohm 2 wire cable to the basement. I put a converter on the 2 wire in the basement, and then ran coax to the computer (HDTV Wonder card).


I am getting 3-5-8 pretty much solid (90% or better). I managed to get WUAB-DT intermittently, with 40-60% strength.


I also manage to get some religious channel, pbs (But its not hd? I thought pbs was) and some spanish channel.


My main wants at this point are:


Solid WUAB-DT (UPN)

Solid WB

Solid CBS



Those all seem to be the same direction and distance according to antennaweb, as the 3 channels I get with great signal. Anyone have any idea why I can't get them tuned in? They show 1 red bar in mce tuner setup.


Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Newbie to OTA DTV here, located in Kenmore (IE south akron).
> 
> 
> Here is what i have so far, looking for any suggestions to eek out the last couple missing stations.
> 
> 
> 2 story house, OLD (70's?) UHF/VHF antenna on the roof, 300ohm 2 wire cable to the basement. I put a converter on the 2 wire in the basement, and then ran coax to the computer (HDTV Wonder card).
> 
> 
> I am getting 3-5-8 pretty much solid (90% or better). I managed to get WUAB-DT intermittently, with 40-60% strength.
> 
> 
> I also manage to get some religious channel, pbs (But its not hd? I thought pbs was) and some spanish channel.
> 
> 
> My main wants at this point are:
> 
> 
> Solid WUAB-DT (UPN)
> 
> Solid WB
> 
> Solid CBS
> 
> 
> 
> Those all seem to be the same direction and distance according to antennaweb, as the 3 channels I get with great signal. Anyone have any idea why I can't get them tuned in? They show 1 red bar in mce tuner setup.
> 
> 
> Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!



Check out this post.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Newbie to OTA DTV here, located in Kenmore (IE south akron).
> 
> 
> Here is what i have so far, looking for any suggestions to eek out the last couple missing stations.
> 
> 
> 2 story house, OLD (70's?) UHF/VHF antenna on the roof, 300ohm 2 wire cable to the basement. I put a converter on the 2 wire in the basement, and then ran coax to the computer (HDTV Wonder card).
> 
> 
> I am getting 3-5-8 pretty much solid (90% or better). I managed to get WUAB-DT intermittently, with 40-60% strength.
> 
> 
> I also manage to get some religious channel, pbs (But its not hd? I thought pbs was) and some spanish channel.
> 
> 
> My main wants at this point are:
> 
> 
> Solid WUAB-DT (UPN)
> 
> Solid WB
> 
> Solid CBS
> 
> 
> 
> Those all seem to be the same direction and distance according to antennaweb, as the 3 channels I get with great signal. Anyone have any idea why I can't get them tuned in? They show 1 red bar in mce tuner setup.
> 
> 
> Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!



First thing, you've really got to get rid of that old 300 ohm twin lead and replace it with RG6 coax cable all the way to the HDTV Wonder. There's also probably some pretty corroded connections up there where the twin lead connects to the antenna.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The "religious" channel and the PBS channel without HD are both transmitted out of Akron (west side near SR 21 & I-76/ US 224). Everything else comes from Parma.


For ch 3 & 19 you will need a VHF antenna, everything else is on UHF. The digital signals are actually on different channels, the ASTC digital tuners map these channels to the numbers they are known by (i.e. 3, 5, 8...).


Here is the list of digital channels that the local stations are actually on:

WKYC 3 is on digital ch 2

WEWS 5 is on digital ch 15

WJW 8 is on digital ch 31

WOIO 19 is on digital ch 10

WUAB 43 is on digital ch 28

WEAO 49 is on digital ch 50


WBNX 55 is not yet on the air in digital. When they do sign on they will be on digital ch 30.

WVIZ 25 is on digital ch 26, however they are on a temporary tower with very low power (99 watts). I can just barely get them 3 miles from the temporary site, and then only if I move my antenna to a place where I get their signal at the expense of many of the other channels. Ironically they do broadcst in HD, unlike WEAO.


The "religious chanel" is TBN ch 17 (digital 39). It's actually 5 SD channels on one signal!


You may also want to try to get WKBN out of Youngstown (ch 27, digital 41). Come football season that channel will be a valuable addition, since it's both a CBS HD feed ans a FOX SD on it's subchannel (WYFX). Last season there were different games carried on WKBN and WYFX than wht WOIO and WJW carried for some weeks of the regular season. WKBN-DT is a very strong signal, I get it 24/7 up here in Parma.


----------



## Bill Harrison

Thanks for all the suggestions, I am not too big into football, and all the signals i want to get are out of parma, i guess i was mainly curious why some came in so clear and strong, and some not at all.


Perhaps its the poor cable i have, i will look into replacing that. I may be moving in a couple of months though, so I am leery of putting too much money into this, and moving soon.


I am real happy with the signal i get, so maybe i will try cleaning connections, and going from there.


I have 2 splitters, and a 2 wire to coax adapter in the basement, all to get up to the pc. Any chance these are the problem? I could get a single cable and make the run that way if it would help any.


----------



## Inundated

Less splitters. Better cable. That's probably half of your battle. WUAB-DT is reasonably full powered and in the Parma antenna farm, so you shouldn't have much difficulty catching it.


As far as TWC/Adelphia goes...as I've said here before, right now consider the former Adelphia system the same system with a TWC sign on it.







We won't see much change until later this year...


----------



## RussTC3

Probably doesn't mean anything, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways.


TitanTV is listing WBNX 55.1 in their schedule, is this a sign that it's about to go online, or is it just a mistake?


And another thing, will PBS 45/49 ever do HD again?


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I had an interesting digital DX catch this morning. Actually, I have to give credit to the wife for this. About 7:00, she was tuning around looking for some Sat morning cartoons for our daughter. She accidentally punched "29" into the remote and up popped a channel with cartoons. The PSIP info on the channel was WGTE-DT, channel 30-1. A quick internet search reveals that this is a Toledo PBS affiliate, analog channel 30, digital 29.


The interesting thing is that this is not a particularly powerful digital station - the FCC database indicates a power of only 49.5 kW from their digital stick. I have noticed throughout this week that signals seem to be strong from that direction. I have noticed some of the Toledo analogs coming through in the late evenings. Never was able to capture a Toledo digital - and then the wife does by accident! Actually, after looking at the FCC database, this is probably the only Toledo digital that we have a realistic shot at. It looks like most of their digitals are on channels that are being used by Northeast Ohio digitals or analogs - 5, 17, 19, 46, and 49.


For those of you interested in this sort of thing, you may want to try looking for Detroit digitals tonight - try channels 14, 21, 41, 44 and 58 (21 and 41 might be tough with Y-town stations on those channels). Of course, that's assuming that the atmospheric conditions are right tonight.


----------



## hookbill

I finally see an HD live game on the NFL network, (Jets/Giants) and there is NO Dolby 5.1? WTF?????


Now I don't care if TW does dump them.


I apologize for not watching the Browns, but football does look so good in HD.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But look what they have done in less then a months time. They have a series of commercials in place about the take over. They gave us TNT HD and the Tube.



Well, TNT HD is stretched oblong most of the time when I tune in; I tune away immediately. The Tube is not in high definition. TWC added a bunch more useless free "In Demand" channels; most of the new ones are basically commercials (GM Showroom?), and the rest of them are the same repeats that have been listed there for months. Also, some of these listings are empty categories. On many of the others, and ALSO on the premium In Demand channels (HBO, Showtime, etc.), the listings disappear when they expire, and they aren't being replaced with new stuff. When I called about this, the rep said that the declining number of HBO In Demand listings was caused by HBO. Uh-uh; not true; all of the on-demand listings are going down in number.


----------



## Telosian

I assume none of the "On demand" channels are HD. Is this correct? I thought is was ironic the Little League game today was in great looking HD and the Browns, from a production standpoint, looked like (and sounded like) a high school Friday night game. I did see a glimpse of a game last week on ESPN in HD and agree with Hookbill; football in HD looks awesome.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, TNT HD is stretched oblong most of the time when I tune in; I tune away immediately.



I'm kind of wondering when you tune in to TNT-HD. Sometimes I catch an old episode of Law & Order and that's in HD, not stretched with 5.1 sound. Also really good shows like "Save" and "The Closer" are in HD as well.


Matter of fact I think every time I've tuned to TNT-HD it's had an HD program on.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm kind of wondering when you tune in to TNT-HD. Sometimes I catch an old episode of Law & Order and that's in HD, not stretched with 5.1 sound. Also really good shows like "Save" and "The Closer" are in HD as well.
> 
> 
> Matter of fact I think every time I've tuned to TNT-HD it's had an HD program on.



Sometimes it is hard to notice, but quite a bit of the programing on TNT-HD is stretched. Lots of the old Law & Order shows are stretched. Many of the movies I expect would be HD are stretched. To me TNT-HD is quite a disappointment, I really think if the movies can't be OAR, more should at least be tilt and scan rather than pan and scan + stretch.


I don't mean to assume, but if you're new to TNT-HD most of their content is stretched in a "fish eye" manner. So the center of the frame remains fairly unchanged while the edges are stretched more than normal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't mean to assume, but if you're new to TNT-HD most of their content is stretched in a "fish eye" manner. So the center of the frame remains fairly unchanged while the edges are stretched more than normal.



Fair enough, I am new to TNT-HD and most of the L&O that I've seen are the newer ones. I'm certain though that "Save" and "The Closer" are in HD.


Also every L&O I have seen is 5.1 dolby. That's a plus in my book.


In my mind the big disappointment is The Discovery Channel. While their HD is spectacular, their programming sucks.


----------



## JJkizak

TheBlackNight:

Certain weather conditions will indeed bring in the Toledo channels 11 and 13 analog and rarely some digital. Last night both 11 and 13 were very good.


JJK


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably doesn't mean anything, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways.
> 
> 
> TitanTV is listing WBNX 55.1 in their schedule, is this a sign that it's about to go online, or is it just a mistake?



I noticed this also. Not sure if they are broadcasting yet as I don't have an OTA HD tuner, but it more than likely means that WBNX is feeding guide data in preparation for the digital launch, which I'm assuming is going to occur soon based on TitanTV's data. Can anyone with an OTA tuner do a re-scan and check if WBNX DT 55.1 (CH 30) appears?


----------



## hookbill

Since we were talking about it I'd thought I point out there is someone who says they work for Best Buy and is saying the TiVo Series 3 is coming on Sept. 17. He has the price at 799.99. Read it here . I don't know if it's true or not.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phoenix2088* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed this also. Not sure if they are broadcasting yet as I don't have an OTA HD tuner, but it more than likely means that WBNX is feeding guide data in preparation for the digital launch, which I'm assuming is going to occur soon based on TitanTV's data. Can anyone with an OTA tuner do a re-scan and check if WBNX DT 55.1 (CH 30) appears?



Not there yet 10:08PM on Aug 27th 2006


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> And another thing, will PBS 45/49 ever do HD again?



Yes. PBS 45 & 49 is anxious to restart HD OTA broadcasting on both our digital stations. Although we are getting closer to that capability it is still months away.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

PBS 45 & 49


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had an interesting digital DX catch this morning. Actually, I have to give credit to the wife for this. About 7:00, she was tuning around looking for some Sat morning cartoons for our daughter. She accidentally punched "29" into the remote and up popped a channel with cartoons. The PSIP info on the channel was WGTE-DT, channel 30-1. A quick internet search reveals that this is a Toledo PBS affiliate, analog channel 30, digital 29.
> 
> 
> The interesting thing is that this is not a particularly powerful digital station - the FCC database indicates a power of only 49.5 kW from their digital stick. I have noticed throughout this week that signals seem to be strong from that direction. I have noticed some of the Toledo analogs coming through in the late evenings. Never was able to capture a Toledo digital - and then the wife does by accident! Actually, after looking at the FCC database, this is probably the only Toledo digital that we have a realistic shot at. It looks like most of their digitals are on channels that are being used by Northeast Ohio digitals or analogs - 5, 17, 19, 46, and 49.
> 
> 
> For those of you interested in this sort of thing, you may want to try looking for Detroit digitals tonight - try channels 14, 21, 41, 44 and 58 (21 and 41 might be tough with Y-town stations on those channels). Of course, that's assuming that the atmospheric conditions are right tonight.



This "Lakeshore DX" is quite common this time of year when there is a stationary front in the area. My in-laws live near the lakeshore in Erie, PA and often get high-UHF channels from Toronto stronger than some of the locals.


----------



## Telosian

I figured when Channel three started a HD news broadcast the problems with forgeting to reset the switcher for HD programs would go away. WRONG! Checking a recording of Law & Order after the Browns game it was messed up with a totally useless letterbox for more than half the show. I don't know how or why this happens. I assume that it has to do with not enough HD (16x9) monitors in the control room. Even so, this seems so amazingly obvious. There is no mystery when something is in HD or not, or when something is stretched to fit or when TNT uses that terrible "stretch on the side and keep the center" processor. I'm happy to have TNT on the HD schedule and do enjoy their shows done in actual HD but it's not like it is difficult to tell the difference. It seems to me the first rule of broadcasting is to look at the over the air monitor once in a while and when you're done with the football game you put things back the way they were supposed to be. Maybe this is happening at the Time Warner end? Next time I'll check OTA.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe this is happening at the Time Warner end?



Extremely doubtful. All TWC does is modulate the signal that is given to them by the local broadcaster so they have very little to no control over the content of the stream.


----------



## Telosian

Thanks, Terry. That was pretty much what I thought.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I figured when Channel three started a HD news broadcast the problems with forgeting to reset the switcher for HD programs would go away. WRONG! Checking a recording of Law & Order after the Browns game it was messed up with a totally useless letterbox for more than half the show. I don't know how or why this happens. I assume that it has to do with not enough HD (16x9) monitors in the control room. Even so, this seems so amazingly obvious. There is no mystery when something is in HD or not, or when something is stretched to fit or when TNT uses that terrible "stretch on the side and keep the center" processor. I'm happy to have TNT on the HD schedule and do enjoy their shows done in actual HD but it's not like it is difficult to tell the difference. It seems to me the first rule of broadcasting is to look at the over the air monitor once in a while and when you're done with the football game you put things back the way they were supposed to be. Maybe this is happening at the Time Warner end? Next time I'll check OTA.



I always call them and ask for master control when this happens to remind them that they didn't cut back. Now most every station in town will thank you for it, immediately cut from the SD downconverter back to the HD stream. Recently the three folks will get bitchy and tell you to never call that number again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Recently the three folks will get bitchy and tell you to never call that number again.



My response: "Fine, do your job so I don't have to."


----------



## TLaz

Does anyone know if WEWS-DT will be showing the above programs in HD on or about 9/11/06?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My response: "Fine, do your job so I don't have to."



Of course, flipping the HD/SD switch is not the job of the newsroom folks. They just get the calls because there's no off-hours engineering phone number available to the public.


That doesn't excuse them being "bitchy" and telling people to never call again. I'd drop a note to the GM of the station if that happened to me.


There's no excuse for station personnel to lay into a caller, even if it's for something like this... and WKYC is now promoting its HD newscasts at every drop, so they should pay better attention to the HD feed!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if WEWS-DT will be showing the above programs in HD on or about 9/11/06?



Doubtfull. They are both syndicated shows and WEWS doesn't even do there news in HD yet and that's their big claim to fame.


Speaking of game shows, sure would be nice to see Amazing Race or Survivor in HD. Those shows would really look great.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if WEWS-DT will be showing the above programs in HD on or about 9/11/06?



You have to be kidding! The 7:00-8:00 PM time block was supposed to be for local programming. Insted, we get network programming pre-empted after 8 PM. They hardly ever pre-empt Wheel and Jeopardy (except for that "Com-Media" special several years ago where every station in town got together and ran the same live program simultaneously, I believe it was in response to 9/11).


As far as I'm concerned, if you seen one "wheel" you have seen them all, Wheel in HD, give me a break. What a waste of bandwidth.


I'm sorry, but this hit a nerve with me. I blame these "sacred cow" syndicated programs for getting around an FCC requirement for locally produced public interest programming.


It's no wonder E* got in trouble for providing distant network affilliates. When you have local stations that would rather pre-empt ABC or NBC programming for what could have been run in the 7-8 slot, you get no sympathy from me if you want to see Vanna White in HD.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had an interesting digital DX catch this morning. Actually, I have to give credit to the wife for this. About 7:00, she was tuning around looking for some Sat morning cartoons for our daughter. She accidentally punched "29" into the remote and up popped a channel with cartoons. The PSIP info on the channel was WGTE-DT, channel 30-1. A quick internet search reveals that this is a Toledo PBS affiliate, analog channel 30, digital 29.
> 
> 
> The interesting thing is that this is not a particularly powerful digital station - the FCC database indicates a power of only 49.5 kW from their digital stick. I have noticed throughout this week that signals seem to be strong from that direction. I have noticed some of the Toledo analogs coming through in the late evenings. Never was able to capture a Toledo digital - and then the wife does by accident! Actually, after looking at the FCC database, this is probably the only Toledo digital that we have a realistic shot at. It looks like most of their digitals are on channels that are being used by Northeast Ohio digitals or analogs - 5, 17, 19, 46, and 49.
> 
> 
> For those of you interested in this sort of thing, you may want to try looking for Detroit digitals tonight - try channels 14, 21, 41, 44 and 58 (21 and 41 might be tough with Y-town stations on those channels). Of course, that's assuming that the atmospheric conditions are right tonight.




It's a common thing this time of year. Some odd digitals I've received were WKBW-DT 38 from Buffalo and WOUB-DT 27 from Athens here in Akron. This type of atmospheric condition, known as tropospheric propagation, isn't just limited to markets that surround northeast Ohio. I've seen some strange analog stations from Chicago, Florida, and Texas. In fact, it was just a few weeks ago that I turned my FM radio on to get numerous stations from the Texas area of the country (a lot of spanish). I haven't seen this happen as frequently with digital.


Speaking of radio, there are local stations that are now broadcasting HD radio. I did some research on this. It's basically radio's switch to digital. The radios are still overpriced, and I'm assuming that they will decrease with time.


----------



## stuart628

has anyone checked with CBS to see when they will be up and running on Directv, thats the only thing that is holding me back from upgrading to the New HD Dvr as soon as possible!


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> has anyone checked with CBS to see when they will be up and running on Directv, thats the only thing that is holding me back from upgrading to the New HD Dvr as soon as possible!



Is the new Directv MPEG4 capable HD DVR available now? How much does it cost? Do they have a lease plan for it or do you still have to buy it?


----------



## stuart628

it will be soon, I have heard Mid sept, beginning of October, The lease cost is 299 upfront then I think 6 a month, but if you have the Hr10-250 they swap them out for free. and you cant buy the HR20-700 yet


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> has anyone checked with CBS to see when they will be up and running on Directv, thats the only thing that is holding me back from upgrading to the New HD Dvr as soon as possible!



It is running on D*. Just not locally here in Cleveland. Raycom takes their time before they make a deal. It took a while before we got it on cable.


Don't forget, you can try and talk the D* reps into giving you the networks from L.A. and/or N.Y. You can get those in HD with out waiting for the HR-20. I have heard it will be either October or November for those units. Also keep in mind that they do not have TiVo based software, so there are many who are not willing to trade out ther old units.


Had I been able to get a signal I would have attempted to get the networks from the right and left coast. I was successful in Kentucky even though I was only 15 miles from Cincinatti. I would not have upgraded to the HR-20.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is running on D*. Just not locally here in Cleveland. Raycom takes their time before they make a deal. It took a while before we got it on cable.
> 
> 
> Don't forget, you can try and talk the D* reps into giving you the networks from L.A. and/or N.Y. You can get those in HD with out waiting for the HR-20. I have heard it will be either October or November for those units. Also keep in mind that they do not have TiVo based software, so there are many who are not willing to trade out ther old units.
> 
> 
> Had I been able to get a signal I would have attempted to get the networks from the right and left coast. I was successful in Kentucky even though I was only 15 miles from Cincinatti. I would not have upgraded to the HR-20.



I hope your wrong







I keep hearing sept, and I really want to upgrade as of right now I am missing STO in HD, and will miss the cavs in HD as Directv put those channels up







I really want to get this upgrade done! by the way anyone have the AT9 on the roof? thats the only place it can go on my property....I know directv made these things for roof installs, justmakes me nervous!


----------



## intermod

Tropo Info::


Hi,

Been outta touch w/ the board fer a while, but was pleased to see the OTA DX posts!


Tropo has been reaching significant levels of late. Try the URL below for info. The directive

characteristics of a Yagi style antenna tend to work well to NULL out adjacent channel or on channel interferance. The Main "Lobe" has maximum gain, signals off the back have maximum loss . So from my location the Toledeo/Detroit vs Y'town works well.


http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html


----------



## alfbinet

Just curious if any folks here are into HD DVD or Blu-Ray? I hang out in both the HD DVD and Blu-Ray forums. Just curious if there are any like minded folks nearby.

I live in Brook Park with a 52" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p, Toshiba HD-A1 DVD, Denon 3910 DVD, Dish Network ViP211 HD receiver.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alfbinet* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious if any folks here are into HD DVD or Blu-Ray? I hang out in both the HD DVD and Blu-Ray forums. Just curious if there are any like minded folks nearby.
> 
> I live in Brook Park with a 52" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p, Toshiba HD-A1 DVD, Denon 3910 DVD, Dish Network ViP211 HD receiver.



I have the HD-A1 and love it. And believe it or not I grew up in Brook Park on Richard Dr.


----------



## kinglerch

I have an antenna on the SW corner of my house (I live 20 miles east of downtown Cleveland) and a booster that came with it. I can get Fox, UPN, and ABC from Cleveland but nothing else from Cleveland comes in. I do however get 4 stations from Youngstown (40 miles east of me..."through" the house) and 2 from Akron/Canton 30 miles south.


I tried turning off the booster, but it just makes the Youngstown channels go away.


Is there a strength problem with some stations in Cleveland like NBC WKYC and CBS WOIO? My other cleveland stations come in at 95%, Akron at 78%, and Youngstown at 65%...as viewed through my Sony A2000 tuner.


----------



## RussTC3

WKYC and WOIO are VHF, the others are all UHF.


My first question is do you have a UHF/VHF antenna?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKYC and WOIO are VHF, the others are all UHF.
> 
> 
> My first question is do you have a UHF/VHF antenna?



It says VHF/UHF but of all the stations I receive, most are UHF. Only a few are VHF. Is there some consideration that must be made for VHF? Better antenna, more boost, higher, vertical/horizontal, etc?


It seems weird to get 95% from a channel down the street from one I dont receive at all.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't forget, you can try and talk the D* reps into giving you the networks from L.A. and/or N.Y. You can get those in HD with out waiting for the HR-20. I have heard it will be either October or November for those units. Also keep in mind that they do not have TiVo based software, so there are many who are not willing to trade out ther old units.
> 
> 
> Had I been able to get a signal I would have attempted to get the networks from the right and left coast. I was successful in Kentucky even though I was only 15 miles from Cincinatti. I would not have upgraded to the HR-20.



It's much tougher today to talk D* into giving you any distant networks unfortunately as SHEVRA requires waivers on everything today. I was only able to sign up for Fox-East as our Fox local is a Fox Owned & Operated so they'll sign a waiver allowing it - D* did submit waivers for me for the other big 3, but they were denied. That was prior to D* offering any Cleveland HD locals though - not sure if you can still sign up for that since the MPEG4 additions.


Anyway, you can try, but I think you're chance of success nowadays for getting any national network feeds other than Fox-East is asymptotically approaching zero.


I'm taking a wait and see approach on the HR-20 before I give up my Tivos. I doubt I'll consider it at all until the antenna input is active. Today all I'm missing is the RSN's in HD & given how often the Cavs are on nationally this year, that may not be too painful until next Indians season...


Once D* starts rolling out new nationals only in MPEG4 will be when the temptation to give up the Tivos will be highest - hopefully by then the HR-20 is getting glowing reviews, or they've given up and brought back Tivo to do MPEG4 (a guy can dream)...


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there a strength problem with some stations in Cleveland like NBC WKYC and CBS WOIO? My other cleveland stations come in at 95%, Akron at 78%, and Youngstown at 65%...as viewed through my Sony A2000 tuner.



My experience with receiving OTA on my Terk HDTVi from Akron is that WKYC and WOIO are extremely fussy about the VHF part of the antenna (ie the angle and length), the difficulty is that they are on near opposite ends of the VHF. It's not too hard to manage to get one, but getting both takes time and finesse.


----------



## RussTC3

Well, what antenna do you have?


I have the Channel Master 3018 and pick up the following channels with no problems 80-90% (though sometimes 3 and 19 give me problems), no pre-amp, just the antenna:


3.1, 3.2

5.1

8.1

17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5

19.1

43.1, 43.2

50.1, 50.2, 50.3

61.1

67.1


I live about 7 miles west of Canton (about 30-45 miles from the towers)


My guess is there is something wrong with the VHF element of your antenna.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It says VHF/UHF but of all the stations I receive, most are UHF. Only a few are VHF. Is there some consideration that must be made for VHF? Better antenna, more boost, higher, vertical/horizontal, etc?
> 
> 
> It seems weird to get 95% from a channel down the street from one I dont receive at all.



The lower the channel/frequency the larger the elements have to be.

For WKYC you need an 8' long element to lock-in ch-2. A booster will not help (in fact it may hinder) your reception.


You must be on high ground to get all 4 Youngstown signals (when you say 4 "Youngstown" channels, I presume one of them is WNEO-45. thee are only 3 commercial stations in Youngstown - two of them currently run a second channel on a subchannel with a 3rd on the way). Here in Parma I can only get WKBN-DT 24/7, the others come and go with the changes in the atmosphere. I also get WFMJ-TV (i.e. analog) 24/7 but it's digital is spotty. They are supposed to increase their transmitter power soon, however it still will not compair to the power "superstation WKBN-DT" is using today.


----------



## Andrew K

I live in north Akron at the top of the Merriman valley. The towers in Parma are almost a clear site from here, and as a result, all analog and digitals from Cleveland come in very good. I used to live in another part of Akron where the channels were very reliant upon the placement of my silver sensor antenna. Even though I get flawless reception from the Cleveland channels through analog, WKYC-DT and especially WOIO-DT are *very* fussy. The problem is that they cannot broadcast at a higher VHF power than they are currently due to many surrounding market analog VHFs. Hopefully this can be fixed when analog is obsolete.


The main problem I have with the Akron digitals such as WDLI and WEAO is that I have to battle the multipath and "ghosty" analog signals. For some reason, I don't have that problem with any Cleveland station. I don't receive anything from Youngstown here, except for a bleep of signal from WKBN-DT.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there a strength problem with some stations in Cleveland like NBC WKYC and CBS WOIO? My other cleveland stations come in at 95%, Akron at 78%, and Youngstown at 65%...as viewed through my Sony A2000 tuner.



At 20 miles east of Cleveland, I figure that puts you outside of I-271. If you are closer to the lakeshore, say somewhere out in Lake or Geagua Counties, you may be getting interference on WOIO-DT from the channel 10 analog across the lake in London, Ontario. It is because of this channel 10 analog that WOIO-DT has to operate at fairly low power (I think they are at about 10 kW?). WKYC-DT is notoriously difficult for a lot of people to receive because of low power and channel position (channel 2 is prone to all kinds of electrical interference).


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At 20 miles east of Cleveland, I figure that puts you outside of I-271. If you are closer to the lakeshore, say somewhere out in Lake or Geagua Counties, you may be getting interference on WOIO-DT from the channel 10 analog across the lake in London, Ontario. It is because of this channel 10 analog that WOIO-DT has to operate at fairly low power (I think they are at about 10 kW?). WKYC-DT is notoriously difficult for a lot of people to receive because of low power and channel position (channel 2 is prone to all kinds of electrical interference).



WOIO-DT is only 3.5 kW on upper VHF. I've always found their signal to be the most fussy. Take for example WSYX-DT in Columbus which broadcasts at 59 kW on channel 13. Their coverage map is very good for that area. Check it out...

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT674641.html


----------



## survineer

Has anyone with TWC-NEO been having trouble with ESPN2HD and NFLHD recently? My problem is that the picture becomes pixelated and the sound gets wacky. These are the only channels I am having trouble with. This is not a good time of the year for these channels to become flaky. I am hoping to confirm that the problem is through TWC and not on my end.


----------



## jtscherne

Well, NFLHD will be disappearing on Sunday unless something major happens. I know last night ESPN2HD had some network problems for part of the 6:00 football game.


----------



## kinglerch

I changed to one of those typical huge antennas (the rooftop models with all the spikes) and put it in my attic. With it I was able to get 3 and 19 (Cleveland VHF) without any problems, coverage around 95%.


I was also able to turn it with a lot of trial and error to pick up Youngstown stations at about 75%, and several from Akron/Canton at 85%. I know I didn't get all Youngstown stations. If I remember correctly it was 21.1, 27.1, 27.2, and a few PBS. I was able to get 33.1 for short periods, nothing substantial. Other Youngstown stations were typically 33% and unusable. Youngstown seemed most effected by a booster. I added 20dB to get some better. I will try a few more DB sometime to see if that helps during bad weather, high atmosphere, etc.


The signals are pretty fussy about antenna position. I ended up "pointing" it North (and down) such that the Cleveland VHF signals were good from the West and Youngstown was still good coming from SE. Antennas seem like a lot of voodoo, but my personal opinion is that a large size and variable booster make the most difference.


----------



## jtscherne

 http://www.multichannel.com/article/...=Breaking+News


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, NFLHD will be disappearing on Sunday unless something major happens. I know last night ESPN2HD had some network problems for part of the 6:00 football game.


 OMW says that we may get a day or two extra, but it looks pretty hopeless as of right now. In fact the NFL Network is saying that TW is no longer talking to them. Since no live games are being broadcast until Thanksgiving that puts TW in the drivers seat at this time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/...=Breaking+News




My My. How quickly things can change.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> The problem is that they cannot broadcast at a higher VHF power than they are currently due to many surrounding market analog VHFs. Hopefully this can be fixed when analog is obsolete.



Don't hold your breath waiting for analog to become obsolete. Canada has a long way to go to convert to digital OTA, consequently CFPL-TV 10 will be there for years to come. Why Raycom wants to put WOIO-DT permanently on ch-10 is beyond reason. They (WOIO) managed to bump Columbus' WBNS-TV pemmanant digital assignment off ch 10. WBNS was on the air for decades before WOIO. What kind of clout did Raycom have at the FCC? All this to put CBS back on VHF in Cleveland?


Thankfully I get WKBN-DT 24/7. I'l get my CBS from them while I watch the WOIO tower lights blink out my back window.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why Raycom wants to put WOIO-DT permanently on ch-10 is beyond reason. They (WOIO) managed to bump Columbus' WBNS-TV pemmanant digital assignment off ch 10. WBNS was on the air for decades before WOIO. What kind of clout did Raycom have at the FCC? All this to put CBS back on VHF in Cleveland?



Lower transmitter operating cost, I presume - much cheaper on VHF than UHF.


I believe one of the Cincy stations has a final digital assignment on CH10 as well, so WBNS would have gotten bumped off CH10 anyway, since digital assignments have priority over analogs.


Wish I could get WKBN here.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO-DT is only 3.5 kW on upper VHF. I've always found their signal to be the most fussy. Take for example WSYX-DT in Columbus which broadcasts at 59 kW on channel 13. Their coverage map is very good for that area. Check it out...
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT674641.html



The best reason to be on upper VHF for digital broadcasting is that you get better coverage with less power. That may be another reason Raycom wanted ch 10 for WOIO.


It's too bad that they want to abandon 19. With WKYC going to 17 and WEWS on 15 it would have been a neat package for those of us who receive Cleveland locals OTA.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lower transmitter operating cost, I presume - much cheaper on VHF than UHF.
> 
> 
> I believe one of the Cincy stations has a final digital assignment on CH10 as well, so WBNS would have gotten bumped off CH10 anyway, since digital assignments have priority over analogs.
> 
> 
> Wish I could get WKBN here.



Have you seen WKBN-DT's coverage map? Depending how far "SW of Cleveland" you are you may be inside the coverage area! The coverage area extends all the way to Strongsville and Medina. All you need is to be on failry high ground with a clear view to the ESE. Youngstown is only a few miles south of rt 82 (which extends to nearly the PA border).
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you seen WKBN-DT's coverage map? Depending how far "SW of Cleveland" you are you may be inside the coverage area! The coverage area extends all the way to Strongsville and Medina. All you need is to be on failry high ground with a clear view to the ESE. Youngstown is only a few miles south of rt 82 (which extends to nearly the PA border).
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html



I'm in NW Medina county, in NE Litchfield township (a good 8 miles WNW of the Medina square). While I have a clear shot at the Parma transmitters (and can get all the Cleveland digitals at 100%, except WVIZ of course), stations to the east are blocked by the higher ground of Richfield/Bath, which is 200-300 feet higher elevation than I am. Even the Akron transmitters are weak, although I get a solid lock on WEAO-DT. If I swing the antenna to the east, I can barely get a lock on WDLI (not that I care about their programming). I've never gotten more than 30% from WOAC-DT.


When there is strong tropo, I can get analog WFMJ a little, and I've gotten a lock on WKBN-DT a couple of times (oddly, I could not get WKBN analog at all at that time). Normally, they do not even light up the signal meter, although I suppose if I put up a huge antenna pointed east, I might have a shot.


Never gotten even a peep out of WFMJ-DT (and needless to say WYTV, analog or digital), even when I could get analog Ch40 from London (which is very common during the summer), 24 from Erie, and even WNED/17 analog from Buffalo a couple of times!


----------



## Michael P 2341

It looks like you are right on the edge of the WKBN-DT coverage area. Perhaps a 100' tower would help. Then again Youngstown migh be just a little bit farther south than Richfield from your POV.


Richfield/Bath blocks the Akron stations for most of Cuyahoga County as well. I wonder why that area did not become the antenna farm for both Cleveland and Akron stations. It's at the midway point between the two cities. Having Cleveland transmitters in Richfield would put more signal to the south and less over Lake Erie.


You know tropo is strong if you can get WYTV. I usually get a couple Pittsburgh digital stations on those occasions. I get WFMJ analog almost anytime (usualy snowy with interference from WOIO), but the digital is spotty. I get WKBN-DT 24/7 but analog 27 is weaker than 21. Forget 33, analog or digital, they are the weakest "full power" station around these parts.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Richfield/Bath blocks the Akron stations for most of Cuyahoga County as well. I wonder why that area did not become the antenna farm for both Cleveland and Akron stations. It's at the midway point between the two cities. Having Cleveland transmitters in Richfield would put more signal to the south and less over Lake Erie.



Could be that the transmitters would then be too far south from Lake and Ashtabula counties to provide decent coverage there, or maybe the studio-to-transmitter links couldn't reach that far from downtown Cleveland back in the 50's (or earlier) when the Parma transmitters were put up. Who knows.


----------



## handsworth

Multichannel and Jtscherne are correct. NFL Network will be on the air til Sept. 15th. BTW, does anyone know why they do not format 16:9 for 90% of their programming. If they intend to do 4:3 for their live games, then I won't be watching anyway.


Also I got wind that former Adelphia systems will be getting Universal HD soon. I will post when I get the date.


----------



## Italians

Hey guys....anyone hear any news about D* and their plans for MPEG4 locals for Cleveland? I'm waiting to make the move to MPEG4, but if i hear that the locals are going there soon, it may expedite my move!! Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Italians* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys....anyone hear any news about D* and their plans for MPEG4 locals for Cleveland? I'm waiting to make the move to MPEG4, but if i hear that the locals are going there soon, it may expedite my move!! Thanks!



Local stations are now available in HD in the Cleveland area on D* but the DVR is not. The HR-20 is suppose to be released soon. If you don't want a DVR you can get it now, you don't have to wait for the HR-20.


----------



## DCSholtis

The HR-20 is now on available for preorders via BestBuy.com for $399+tax and shipping OR from Value Electronics for $299+zero tax and free shipping. Robert from VE says they will start shipping out on 9/13 (I have one on order from him). As far as the MPEG4 locals thru D* CBS is not yet available. Raycom probably wants CBS and the soon to be MyNetwork grouped in the agreement. Damn them. One more thing about that HR-20. The built in OTA tuners will NOT be activated until sometime in October. They will be activated via a software download.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope your wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I keep hearing sept, and I really want to upgrade as of right now I am missing STO in HD, and will miss the cavs in HD as Directv put those channels up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to get this upgrade done! by the way anyone have the AT9 on the roof? thats the only place it can go on my property....I know directv made these things for roof installs, justmakes me nervous!



Yep I have my AT9 on the right front corner of my roof. Don't be nervous about it.


Update on the CBS19/Directv HD Situation....Grrrrrrrrr


Dear Mr. Sholtis:


Thank you for your e-mail.


Please be advised that cable systems and satellite carriers must seek

permission every three years to carry the analog and digital signals of

the broadcast stations in their respective markets. To date, we have

not arrived at agreements with DirecTV.


We have been advising our viewers that they may wish to contact the

satellite carrier directly (as you indicated in your e-mail) and express

their concern and request for digital carriage of our stations.


In the meantime, our corporate office is working to bring these

agreements to conclusion. Until such time, your patience and viewer

loyalty are much appreciated.



Sincerely,

Programming Dept.

WOIO/WUAB



-----Original Message-----

From: Dan Sholtis

Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:35 PM

To: Applegate, Bill

Subject: HD signal via Directv


Mr Applegate:

As a subscriber to Directv who gets my HD signals thru their service,

I've been distressed to see that CBS 19 has still not come

up with an agreement with them for the CBS HD signal. With the NFL

season days away it is particularly disappointing to say the

least. I would have expected an agreement by now seeing they have

been offering local into local HD service since the end of June as

you are the only major station in town still not offered. Is there

any indication when or even IF an agreement will be made with

them. What could the hold up be? Could it relate to a tie-in with

MyNet43? I truly hope an agreement can be reached soon and I shall

be contacting Directv as well.


Thank you

Dan Sholtis


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The best reason to be on upper VHF for digital broadcasting is that you get better coverage with less power. That may be another reason Raycom wanted ch 10 for WOIO.



But the better coverage theory is negated by the fact that they have to operate at super low power in order to protect the London, Ontario analog on channel 10. They may be able to boost the power somewhat in Feb 2009 when US analog channels are shut off, but they will still have to protect CFPL indefinitely. Who knows when the Canadians will shut down their analog signals? I did a quick search of the FCC database the other day, and I could not find another "full-power" digital operating on channel 10 at such a low power level!


Given that we are talking about Raycom, I am convinced that they deliberately chose to stay on channel 10 after analog shutoff in order to lower operating costs. Would that really suprise anyone here?










The FCC really screwed up in the original digital assignments by sticking Cleveland with a channel 10 (and channel 2, but that is a different story). Unfortunately, Raycom has chosen to perpetuate the problem past the analog shutoff date when they could have improved the situation.


----------



## Italians

sorry guys...lol...I meant dish when i said d*...got my nicknames incorrect i guess!! Anyone with any info on that?


----------



## Andrew K

On Friday, I moved to a new apartment about only 200 feet from my old location. I'm surprised that I can't get the Cleveland stations as well as I used to. They used to come in perfectly, but now I have to battle multipath and ghosty analogs. I can now get WFMJ analog, which I couldn't get at all before. However, that is the only Youngstown station I can get (not even WKBN-DT is above the minimum point at which I can receive it). I like my silver sensor because it is a good indoor directional antenna, but I can't use an outdoor. Does anyone know of a good directional indoor (maybe an attic) antenna that may be comparable or better than the silver sensor?


----------



## ab8jh

Would somebody with a OTA tuner check this? I'm getting digital interference patterns on channel 30 on my analog set and I think this is the only station it could possibly be.


----------



## RussTC3

Just scanned, nothing new came up.


EDIT: One interesting note is that I got an e-mail back from them (I asked among other things when their HD would be up) I was told they are in the process of installing their new HD equipment, but they couldn't provide a date for when it would go live.


So, it's probably very close now.


----------



## ab8jh

Hmm, I wonder if they were doing an on-air test before it goes live permanently? It is also possible that its just a fluke on my part. I'm here in Cambridge, Ohio and its at least 90 air miles to the transmitter site. So it may just be my eyes playing tricks on me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just scanned, nothing new came up.
> 
> 
> So, it's probably very close now.



It could mean it's not even close now as well. We just don't know. All I know is the sooner they get it going hopefully the faster TW will sign it up for us who do not use OTA.


----------



## RussTC3

True, but the e-mail I got this afternoon seems to enforce the idea that they are close.


----------



## stuart628

can someone with roadrunner tell me what speeds they are getting up and down? just wondering, because after my directv/att contract is up (end of football season) I will be taking advantage of time warners triple play, my wife got an email from time warner, and we both think its smart to save a little money a month with her current job situation.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> can someone with roadrunner tell me what speeds they are getting up and down? just wondering, because after my directv/att contract is up (end of football season) I will be taking advantage of time warners triple play, my wife got an email from time warner, and we both think its smart to save a little money a month with her current job situation.



I'm old Adelphia, now TW but I doubt it will make much difference. I'm showing 4036 kbps up and 874.5 kbps down. I use the highest speed they offer.


In my mind it's hard to believe that cable can ever be cheaper then satellite. Check those offers for the asterisk which says for 6 months or 4 months. Prices jump after that. Also find out which RR sevice they are offering.


In their commercials that they have now they are offering phone, cable, and road runner lite for 99 bucks. Huh? To really have dependable VoIP you should have at least the second highest speed, imho.


----------



## stuart628

well right now I pay right around 34.99 for directv's package, or digital channels plus locals, then I pay 4.99 for a box, 4.99 for a box, 5.99 for dvr service, 5,99 for insurance, and right around 5.62 bucks for taxes, and 10.95 or whatever it is for HD service= so I pay 88.52 just for directvs, lowest channel set, plus HD



Phone is 49.95 a month, plus a dollar or 2 for taxes


and internet, for att, which I was promised 3 megs down, and only get 1 meg as I am outside their border, but they said I could upgrade and didnt deliever, and told me after the contract was signed, is 17 a month and that includes taxes.


all that equals 157.47 a month, that is without premiums, which we have Hbo and showtime, add another 20 on. and lets not forget that big 299 they want me to pay to upgrade. those are all my extras that I wont include



now for 127.80 I get digital channels, internet, and phone, plus a digtial converter, which I will choose a HD DVR, and dont forget the 5.99 dvr charge, plus 6.95 a month for HD, and another Digital box, plus taxes.....oh and I get free HBO okay so for the first 18 months I will be saving when I am on satellite buy back, but when that goes away I will be getting about the same price as I am paying now, but it will be faster internet, and better HD, plus a HD DVR that I dont pay 300 for......I wonder where I went wrong in my figuring earlier. I am going to go look at some things I might edit this a bit.


edit #1. its not roadruner lite they are offering I am 100% sure of that and, my satellite buy back program will be for 99 dollars for 18 months, I get road runner, phone, digtal cable, one premium, one box.


edit #2 its 49.99 a month for directvs package, not 34.99 a month ( its late)


----------



## hookbill

I do my phone by Vonage thats about 18 and some change a month. Cable with HBO and MLB which they are not collecting for was 150 and I think that included my internet charge cause it got included in a package.


I'm not certain really, I haven't paid a bill in 9 years. Wife pays the bills. I just kind of peek at it from time to time.


I will say this: imho from what I experienced before from DSL in Cincinnati cable seems to be much and I do mean oh so much more reliable. I think in the two years I've been here it's gone out for more then an hour maybe twice.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm old Adelphia, now TW but I doubt it will make much difference. I'm showing 4036 kbps up and 874.5 kbps down. I use the highest speed they offer.



Of course, that's actually the other way around - up vs. down










I am using the standard speed, though I'm thinking I'll upgrade. I get usually in the 2000-3000 range down and 512kbps-ish up.


Like you, I'm in the ex-Adelphia region. I think the main TWC system's tiers are different, for now, but most cable companies nudge up the speeds from time to time to be competitive.


I know they're pushing digital phone, and we'll get it soon, but I've been a Vonage customer for about three years now, and love it. There are actually differences between standard bring-your-own VoIP and "Digital Phone", even down to their workings, but it doesn't mean much to me.


And I like the ability to grab my phone adapter and use it anywhere in the world, which I don't think you can do with TWC's in-house offering due to the nature of what it is...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course, that's actually the other way around - up vs. down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Darn, and I tried so carefully to get that right!







Yes, its 4036 kbps down and 874.5 kbps up. I think I was tired when I posted that.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Darn, and I tried so carefully to get that right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, its 4036 kbps down and 874.5 kbps up. I think I was tired when I posted that.



still better then the 1.2 megs I get down ( 1.5-overhead) and .25 to .5 megs up.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Darn, and I tried so carefully to get that right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, its 4036 kbps down and 874.5 kbps up. I think I was tired when I posted that.



How much are you paying for that, anyway? I might move up, and the higher upstream would work well with my Slingbox...


To the OP on this subject, I'm pretty sure the levels we're talking about are the old Adelphia tiers, and that TWC's Akron/Canton-based original system has different ones. But they're probably in roughly the same ballpark, even before they move us ex-Adelphia types over to RoadRunner...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How much are you paying for that, anyway? I might move up, and the higher upstream would work well with my Slingbox...



It's part of a package, in my case iirc it was 5 bucks a month over their high speed mid range. I got it right after I got Vonage installed, but also because my wife is quite a gamer so she wanted it for that purpose as well.


----------



## stuart628

yeah I guess my statement should have read, who with time warner in the akron area, can check their levels.


Also, I am really hoping that when the dust setteles from time warners work (getting switched video up and running on their system, taking over cleveland for cable, etc.) that we will see NFL network, and more HD. I think the hangup with NFL Network is their HD channel, and I think time warner is waiting for a little more bandwidth, which Switched video should give them plenty, at least plenty to add a couple more channels until 2009 when they reap the benefits of analog shut off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I am really hoping that when the dust setteles from time warners work (getting switched video up and running on their system, taking over cleveland for cable, etc.) that we will see NFL network, and more HD. I think the hangup with NFL Network is their HD channel, and I think time warner is waiting for a little more bandwidth, which Switched video should give them plenty, at least plenty to add a couple more channels until 2009 when they reap the benefits of analog shut off.



Well, we already have NFL Network in HD and they just don't show that much in HD to begin with. I don't think it has anything to do with bandwith. It has to do with $$. In TW view NFL wants too much money. TW wants to make it part of a sports package which would cost those of you who purchase it more money. Of course don't expect your rates to go down if you do not purchase it. That's the way it should work but won't.


Also we already know that Universal HD is on the way. I would like to see an upgrade in the software for the SA 8300. Seems most folks now have 1.88.xx.x. We are still in the 1.87 version.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think time warner is waiting for a little more bandwidth, which Switched video should give them plenty, at least plenty to add a couple more channels until 2009 when they reap the benefits of analog shut off.



Analog shut off has little to nothing to do with cable, just OTA.


----------



## thorton22

Does anyone know anything about the signal strength increase of ch32 - WTRF-DT in EHEELING, WV? I've been waiting for this to happen for a while but haven't heard anything lately.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, we already have NFL Network in HD and they just don't show that much in HD to begin with. I don't think it has anything to do with bandwith. It has to do with $$. In TW view NFL wants too much money. TW wants to make it part of a sports package which would cost those of you who purchase it more money. Of course don't expect your rates to go down if you do not purchase it. That's the way it should work but won't.
> 
> 
> Also we already know that Universal HD is on the way. I would like to see an upgrade in the software for the SA 8300. Seems most folks now have 1.88.xx.x. We are still in the 1.87 version.



correction







you have NFL network, we orginial Time warner customers, Or soon to be Orginial time warner customers, dont have Nfl Network, thats the one thing that has really kept me with satellite over cable over the years, anyways you are right in the end it does come down to money. Speaking of updates, I would love to see the sa8300 with folders like tivo, directv have, those are nice to have, not neccesary but nice!


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Analog shut off has little to nothing to do with cable, just OTA.




I am confused, I thought Analog was taking up all this space on cable. I realize I am only 2 years into the whole HDTV info, with sat/cable only being about a year and half rookie on. But with the analog cable shutoff, that would mean TIme warner would shut off their analog (no more pluggin a RG6 directly into the old tv and getting channels), therefore freeing up TONS of bandwidth, as analog is a bandwidth hog, I could be wrong, and someone explain it to me if you could.


----------



## Andrew K

Has anyone read about what will happen to the low power analogs after the transition (the Cat 35/29 for example)?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But with the analog cable shutoff, that would mean TIme warner would shut off their analog (no more pluggin a RG6 directly into the old tv and getting channels), therefore freeing up TONS of bandwidth, as analog is a bandwidth hog, I could be wrong, and someone explain it to me if you could.



The 2009 mandate says analog broadcasts must be turned off. Cable TV is unaffected except for the analog broadcast channels they carried (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, etc







) which what will happen to them remains undecided.


So you can't just plug an antenna into your NTSC tv/vcr/tuner and expect to get any channels after the shutoff in 2009, but you will still get "almost" all of your analog cable channels. So, again, *there is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff*.


Yes, analog channels take up lots of room on cable. No, the government is not telling them to get rid of analog channels. Yes, cable companies could drop all analog channels. No, it isn't likely they would do this because it would alienate most of their customers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 2009 mandate says analog broadcasts must be turned off. Cable TV is unaffected except for the analog broadcast channels they carried (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) which what will happen to them remains undecided.
> 
> 
> So you can't just plug an antenna into your NTSC tv/vcr/tuner and expect to get any channels after the shutoff in 2009, but you will still get "almost" all of your analog cable channels. So, again, *there is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff*.
> 
> 
> Yes, analog channels take up lots of room on cable. No, the government is not telling them to get rid of analog channels. Yes, cable companies could drop all analog channels. No, it isn't likely they would do this because it would alienate most of their customers.



I kind of see what your saying but I don't think it makes sense.


Your saying that cable is not affected by the mandatory switch to digital broadcast, however the local stations will no longer broadcast digitally. Therefore those who don't have cable now will have to purchase a digital converter in order to receive OTA signals, or purchase cable.


You then say that cable will take the digital signal and offer it in analog form to it's customers.


I don't think so.


What I think will happen is cable is indeed going to tell it's customers that since digital broadcasting is no longer available you will need to get a digital box to receive cable now. Sorry about that but we will be giving you all these other channels.


I don't see them taking a digital signal and converting it to analog, unless that is what they are already doing with stations like TBS, ESPN, etc. To be honest I'm not sure how they receive these signals so you may have a point.


On the other hand, TW (old Adelphia) offers local stations digitally without hd now. Why would they be doing that unless they are getting ready to convert everyone? And for a while we could see they were testing all their analog stations digitally as well.


And never forget the cable company's golden rule: If you gotta a reason to jack the customer, do it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Could be that the transmitters would then be too far south from Lake and Ashtabula counties to provide decent coverage there, or maybe the studio-to-transmitter links couldn't reach that far from downtown Cleveland back in the 50's (or earlier) when the Parma transmitters were put up. Who knows.



Ashtabula, for sure, would be a loser if the Cleveland stations were to transmit from Richfield, however they should probably be in the Erie or Youngstown DMA anyway. I was just there (Rock Creek) over the holiday weekend. Their reception of ch 3 on cable was terrible. The only signifcantly viewed station was ch 12 out of Erie. Both are NBC, however that does not help when you want to watch an Indians game. The cable system does not carry STO either - not even in their digital tier (yes they have a digital tier). BTW none of the locals were listed in the digital tier (they probably can't receive the digital Cleveland locals OTA anyway). I bet WKBN-DT would come in there, if only I had a ASTC tuner to try it out.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ab8jh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmm, I wonder if they were doing an on-air test before it goes live permanently? It is also possible that its just a fluke on my part. I'm here in Cambridge, Ohio and its at least 90 air miles to the transmitter site. So it may just be my eyes playing tricks on me.



Well, I'm right by the WBNX transmitter - I got 0 signal strength last night on my E* 921 when I checked digital ch 30.


I'd be real surprised if you could "see" digital signals on an analog TV. As i said I'm in the heart of the Cleveland antenna farm. My analog Tv has snow on 2, 10, 15 etc., only is a slightly "whiter" snow than the other channels without a digital signal. It's very subtle. You would need to see it to understand the difference.


From Cambridge any ch 30 you see could be from West Virginia or PA before you would see anything from Cleveland. Besides the distance, terrain and the curviture of the earth would prevent you from seeing anything from Cleveland except on days when the skip is up. Here in Parma I get several of the Pittsburgh digitals and occasionally CBC from London Ontario (analog) on ch 40. I never got WOUC, which is from your neck of the woods.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I kind of see what your saying but I don't think it makes sense.
> 
> 
> Your saying that cable is not affected by the mandatory switch to digital broadcast, however the local stations will no longer broadcast digitally. Therefore those who don't have cable now will have to purchase a digital converter in order to receive OTA signals, or purchase cable.
> 
> 
> You then say that cable will take the digital signal and offer it in analog form to it's customers.
> 
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> 
> What I think will happen is cable is indeed going to tell it's customers that since digital broadcasting is no longer available you will need to get a digital box to receive cable now. Sorry about that but we will be giving you all these other channels.
> 
> 
> I don't see them taking a digital signal and converting it to analog, unless that is what they are already doing with stations like TBS, ESPN, etc. To be honest I'm not sure how they receive these signals so you may have a point.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, TW (old Adelphia) offers local stations digitally without hd now. Why would they be doing that unless they are getting ready to convert everyone? And for a while we could see they were testing all their analog stations digitally as well.
> 
> 
> And never forget the cable company's golden rule: If you gotta a reason to jack the customer, do it.



A friend of mine who has COX said that COX assured him that the analog service will not go away on cable anytime soon.


It's possible that COX and other cableco's could run a parallel cable should they need the bandwidth that the analog basics take up today. I believe the old Adelphia system in the City of Cleveland had done this years ago (maybe the east suburbs Adelphia as well).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You then say that cable will take the digital signal and offer it in analog form to it's customers.



I'm not sure that I said that anywhere in my post other than to imply it hasn't exactly been decided yet.


Last I knew there is a debate between the NAB and cable companies. If I remember correctly it goes something like this:

The NAB says, "You don't have the right to degrade our signal."

The NCTA says, "But by FCC law, all cable subscribers need to be able to view your channel so we should convert it to analog at the head end."


So, what will happen on cable for these channels remains to be decided. Now channels like ESPN, Comedy Central, etc will remain in analog on cable. So "almost" all of your channels will still be available in analog form.


What I said was, "There is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff" and I firmly stand by that statement.

More recent article on debate between NAB and the NCTA 


Older article:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html


----------



## Ben Music

I am a former Comcast/ now TW customer. I stopped by the Elyria TW office the other day to pick up the latest channel line up list. Looking over the HD lineup it shows The Tube (ch-207) as being HD. It's looks more like analog to me. Also listed is WNEO HD (ch-215) but the on screen guide doesn't show it. Does anyone have any info on this?


Also I noticed on Akron's lineup they have HDNET and HDNET Movies listed. Anyone know if we are going get those added to our HD lineup?


Thanks,

Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that I said that anywhere in my post other than to imply it hasn't exactly been decided yet.
> 
> 
> Last I knew there is a debate between the NAB and cable companies. If I remember correctly it goes something like this:
> 
> The NAB says, "You don't have the right to degrade our signal."
> 
> The NCTA says, "But by FCC law, all cable subscribers need to be able to view your channel so we should convert it to analog at the head end."
> 
> 
> So, what will happen on cable for these channels remains to be decided. Now channels like ESPN, Comedy Central, etc will remain in analog on cable. So "almost" all of your channels will still be available in analog form.
> 
> 
> What I said was, "There is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff" and I firmly stand by that statement.
> 
> More recent article on debate between NAB and the NCTA Older article:
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html



Maybe it's just me but I got confused reading those two articles.










On one hand it said "must convert at head end". On the other it said, "leave it up to cable company."


But apparently the cable company will not force people to purchase digital boxes.


At the very least it means they can downconvert, or they have to cough up the digital box.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

There's still a lot of additional TV's in homes that only have analog tuners and are cabled directly with no box. Cable will no doubt continue their analog channels for a while anyway. Many stations fiber their analog video to cable headends and the cable company could downconvert those that don't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's still a lot of additional TV's in homes that only have analog tuners and are cabled directly with no box. Cable will no doubt continue their analog channels for a while anyway. Many stations fiber their analog video to cable headends and the cable company could downconvert those that don't.



I would still like to see the cable companies create digital versions of the stations they now offer in analog. FX, USA, SCI-Fi would be much better in digital format for my set.


----------



## Speedskater

Right now, Cox Cleveland mirrors most of the Analog Channels (Ch. 2 to 99) with digital copies. But most of the digital channels are encoded.


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know anything about the signal strength increase of ch32 - WTRF-DT in EHEELING, WV? I've been waiting for this to happen for a while but haven't heard anything lately.




Last I heard they were waiting for the FCC to approve of power upgrade.


----------



## stuart628

thats strange, because isnt part of the problem, people not wanting to get Digital boxes? or is it that the goverment has to buy DIGITAL OTA TUNERS? if I were time warner, I would say everyone goes digital in 2009, they are hurting for bandwidth, and will fall farther and farther behind satellite, and fios. Well sorta I guess, as I Dont fully understand switched video, but I see it as unlimited bandwidth, if I am wrong there correct me also.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking over the HD lineup it shows The Tube (ch-207) as being HD. It's looks more like analog to me. Also listed is WNEO HD (ch-215) but the on screen guide doesn't show it. Does anyone have any info on this?



The Tube is definitely digital and it is definitely NOT HD. It is a digital subchannel on WUAB-DT OTA (channel 43-2). That means that it shares bandwidth with the WUAB-DT main channel. It appears that they typically allocate a pretty small amount of bandwidth to it - you see lots of pixellation and blockiness.


WNEO is part of the WEAO/WNEO PBS 45/49 pair of OTA stations - Akron/Alliance PBS affiliates. PBS 45/49 has not had a HD channel in operation for about a year, due to equipment and money issues. They are braodcasting digitally - but in SD.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thats strange, because isnt part of the problem, people not wanting to get Digital boxes? or is it that the goverment has to buy DIGITAL OTA TUNERS? if I were time warner, I would say everyone goes digital in 2009, they are hurting for bandwidth, and will fall farther and farther behind satellite, and fios. Well sorta I guess, as I Dont fully understand switched video, but I see it as unlimited bandwidth, if I am wrong there correct me also.



I'm not sure what you mean by your first few questions, but the purpose of ending analog broadcasts is to free up broadcast frequencies for other purposes.


See, if I were TWC I would welcome this change and hope that I can convert the digital broadcasts at the head end. That way I can expect a boom in subscribership in the ~$12 range for "lifeline" service which may lead people to subscribe to more packages and higher rates.


Switched Digital Video is a bandwidth savings measure, not "unlimited" bandwidth. The savings can only occur when it is used on lesser viewed channels. I don't know what the exact threshold is, but once X number of people are watching the channel at the same time you might as well make it a regular channel.


----------



## stuart628

my first questions wasnt really a question, but a statement. My understand of the whole argument was this, Poverty, and below poverty people (and the elderly too) were complaining because in 3 years when the shut off happens they arent going to want or afford to buy a 60 dollar tuner to get the new digital signals, also they arent going to be able to afford digital cable, or want digital cable, so they wanted the government to pay for all this, hence the government setting aside millions of dollars to buy these people new digital tuners. Now with Switched video (I know weird/no transition between my arguments







) They way I was told it works, is this. My house in Mogadore recieves all 300+ channels right now, they are all broadcast 24/7 on my Rg6, its just a matter of me subscribing and turning to the channel and boom its there. With Switched Video, only the top twenty stations of an area wil be sent down my line and others line (the same twenty stations for everyone). Now lets say Disney isnt on that list, and I want to watch disney cartoons, or whatever. I tune my box to the disney channel, and while I am doing that the box sends a signal to the headend I want that channel, and it sends it back to my box, and 1-2 second delay added to my usual tuning time and boom its there. So baiscally my understanding to it is this, as they add channels, they are not being "broadcast" 24/7 rather I would have to request it to be broadcast to my house, therefore they could add all the channels they want, and they would be fine-where did I go wrong?



Also I hope people on this thread dont mind us talking about this because time warner is doing this now, and it involves all of us.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also I hope people on this thread dont mind us talking about this because time warner is doing this now, and it involves all of us.



Yeah, it's off topic but it is a local subject and involves a great deal of us.


Anyway we so rarely go off topic around here.











So your saying, if I can sum it up that low income gets boxes with 20 stations and can request more from the head end. Would they be charged additional if they requested it?


I'm really feeling a little dumb here, guys. I'm having a tough time grasping the info your putting down. So lets say Disney isn't in the top 20. But we know someone somewhere in the area is watching Disney, you can bet on it so it is running 24/7. However stations that arn't popular wouldn't be running and would have to be "requested". Head end would pick this up and start a broadcast for even one person?


----------



## brh-z2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would still like to see the cable companies create digital versions of the stations they now offer in analog. FX, USA, SCI-Fi would be much better in digital format for my set.



Would having the cable company convert the analog signal to digital make it look better? I would have thought that converting analog garbage to digital would result in digital garbage.


Not that I'd complain if it worked. I'd love to have Sci-fi's Stargate & Battlestar look like the Fox digital rebroadcasts. Nice and clean.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would having the cable company convert the analog signal to digital make it look better? I would have thought that converting analog garbage to digital would result in digital garbage.



Presumably all the non-local channels you see now in cable analog channels 2-99 are picked up by the cable company via satellite and are digital in the first place. So it would be great if you could see all the channels 2-99 in their pure digital form passed to your home. But, like TV21Chief said, the cable company has to convert them to analog for the standard TV tuners 99.9% of us have. Once they convert to analog from the headend, electrical interference and other problems are more pronounced than with a digital signal, so the picture is not as good.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now, Cox Cleveland mirrors most of the Analog Channels (Ch. 2 to 99) with digital copies. But most of the digital channels are encoded.



I'm curious about this Cox "digital mirroring" of all the channels 2-99 - aren't the cable companies already whining they don't have enough bandwidth to add new HD channels? I find it hard to beleive they would mirror all those channels out of the goodness of their hearts just to improve the picture quality for the digital cable box owners.


----------



## terryfoster

==Analog to digital broadcast transition==

Yes the government will have a program and those who qualify will be able to buy/get an extremely basic digital tuner for some small/no fee. Although this has nothing to do with cable TV and how they will have to deal with the transition.


==Switched Digital Video==

Ya'll got the right basic idea for SDV. Some number of channels would be sent through unswitched since enough people watch them and wouldn't result in any bandwidth savings. The rest would work _kind of_ like onDemand. Although we aren't talking about a specific stream for one person like onDemand but a stream that can have multiple viewers. The stream, once it is established, takes up bandwidth that is available to everyone.


Think of SDV this way, If people are only going to watch (our popular example) the Disney Channel during the day and Comedy Central at night you could save bandwidth by only "showing" one channel at a time. So you have effectively combined two channels into one channel and freed some bandwidth. This is really an oversimplification of how it works, just think you can still can only have X number of channels running at any given time and each distinct channel stream you construct will take up an open slot. So SDV only is effective if used on lesser viewed channels like you find in your 100+ range on your cable box. The big question is how small are they able to divide regions so that viewing channels in one neighborhood doesn't effect the bandwidth of other neighborhoods?


Again, not unlimited bandwidth (since that doesn't exist) but bandwidth savings.


==Digital Simulcasts==

Yes converting analog garbage results in digital garbage, BUT if done before great signal loss across the coax network the picture will be clearer than your analog version. Not to mention that there are digital feeds for most of the "cable" networks. We have digital simulcasts in Cinci and they are much nicer than the analog counterparts (which were pretty good themselves). I wouldn't say they did it out of the goodness of their hearts, but out of need to compete with 100% digital satellite systems.


----------



## stuart628

thanks terry that clears it up for me. You know on the subject of switched video, there are very little resources I could find, I did look for quite a while and all I could come up with was time warner is planning on doing switched video.......


Hookbill, read what terry wrote and that is baiscally what is going on, its a little more in depth, but it will help you grasp what they are planning.



and terry, I thought I read somewhere that they wanted about, ahh I not going to give a number because I probable will be way off, but I really thought I heard about 500, per serving end. and again I could be way off....But if they keep the numbers low, the better it is to manage and control their bandwidth.


----------



## stuart628

new post: I called time warner to see what they could do for me as far as cable goes, I really dont want to sign up till december, but I know they dont install lines in december (ground frozen) anyways, they said they have a special for right now, and 99 dollars a month I would get phone, internet, and digital cable...an extra 15 a month and I would get a extra dvr (HD DVR) and hd package, and the 99 does include one dvr already, and that would come with HBO and HBO on demand. that price is good for 18 months, then it would go up to 127 a month, and I would lose HBO, it is very very tempting, I just would feel bad because I would lose out on NFL sunday ticket, and I dont know if I want to do that or not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> new post: I called time warner to see what they could do for me as far as cable goes, I really dont want to sign up till december, but I know they dont install lines in december (ground frozen) anyways, they said they have a special for right now, and 99 dollars a month I would get phone, internet, and digital cable...an extra 15 a month and I would get a extra dvr (HD DVR) and hd package, and the 99 does include one dvr already, and that would come with HBO and HBO on demand. that price is good for 18 months, then it would go up to 127 a month, and I would lose HBO, it is very very tempting, I just would feel bad because I would lose out on NFL sunday ticket, and I dont know if I want to do that or not.



That "special" will be around again. I'd wait until after football season.


Oh and fwiw I did read what Terry had written and I understand now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's part of a package, in my case iirc it was 5 bucks a month over their high speed mid range. I got it right after I got Vonage installed, but also because my wife is quite a gamer so she wanted it for that purpose as well.



I'm in a package now, one of the "Advantage Paks" that gives me HBO and such, for an amount that I'm not sure I want to see on paper right now.










If I am not spending too much, maybe I can work it around and get the highest level...


----------



## Inundated

hookbill - just did it...up to 4500kbps down and 450ish up right now. Woo hoo! Best move I've made. (I wonder if the upstream stuff either takes a while or I need to reset my modem...either way, I'm thrilled with the speedy download.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill - just did it...up to 4500kbps down and 450ish up right now. Woo hoo! Best move I've made. (I wonder if the upstream stuff either takes a while or I need to reset my modem...either way, I'm thrilled with the speedy download.)



Hmmmm. Just about everywhere I've tested I'm always over 800 kpbs on the up stream.


Have you tried this test site?


----------



## DCSholtis

FYI anyone with Directv they added CBS19 to the MPEG 4 HD local lineup this morning so we now have all major nets.


----------



## stuart628

HEY DC! they just emailed me, and said they were close to being done!!! that is amazing news, now I cant wait to upgrade my HR10-250 for the HR20-700!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmmm. Just about everywhere I've tested I'm always over 800 kpbs on the up stream.
> 
> 
> Have you tried this test site?



I was using Speedtest.net...which is really cool and looks pretty!










Here's what I get from your site:


Download: 4577 kbps

Upload: 961.7 kbps


OK, I'm happy.


----------



## ajstan99

Wide Open West QAM - has anyone else tried and what were your results?


I just tried an AutumnWave OnAir USB QAM tuner on my PC and only WKYC Weather Plus and OnDemand Barker show as stations that are available in the clear. I've tried multiple cable outlets and two different PCs and the result is the same each time.


Has anyone been able to get more than these two stations on WOW with any type of clear QAM tuner? I would have at least expected the local channels and STO which are part of the HD basic tier.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wide Open West QAM - has anyone else tried and what were your results?
> 
> 
> I just tried an AutumnWave OnAir USB QAM tuner on my PC and only WKYC Weather Plus and OnDemand Barker show as stations that are available in the clear. I've tried multiple cable outlets and two different PCs and the result is the same each time.
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to get more than these two stations on WOW with any type of clear QAM tuner? I would have at least expected the local channels and STO which are part of the HD basic tier.



You're freakin me out - I was just about to ask the very same question. I did a channel scan tonight with the OnAir USB HDTV tonight and only get the Music Choice channels, a PPV barker (channel 300 something?), and Weather Plus. No other QAM-in-the-clear channels are coming in.


I think we need to give WOW a call and find out what's going on. Wouldn't surprise me if we're the first two guys in the Cleveland market to use a QAM tuner on WOW


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're freakin me out - I was just about to ask the very same question. I did a channel scan tonight with the OnAir USB HDTV tonight and only get the Music Choice channels, a PPV barker (channel 300 something?), and Weather Plus. No other QAM-in-the-clear channels are coming in.
> 
> 
> I think we need to give WOW a call and find out what's going on. Wouldn't surprise me if we're the first two guys in the Cleveland market to use a QAM tuner on WOW



Saw you over in the AutumnWave thread too. I've called WOW in the past and the standard response is that clear QAM is not supported. Thought it may just be a brush-off from a CSR that didn't want to be helpful and/or sell an HD subscription, but I should have known better. If it were possible, the WOW rep would have likely told me. Can't say enough good things about their customer service.


In the next few days, I'll go over to my neighbor's with my laptop and see what I can pick up over Adelphia. I'll let you know.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Saw you over in the AutumnWave thread too. I've called WOW in the past and the standard response is that clear QAM is not supported. Thought it may just be a brush-off from a CSR that didn't want to be helpful and/or sell an HD subscription, but I should have known better. If it were possible, the WOW rep would have likely told me. Can't say enough good things about their customer service.
> 
> 
> In the next few days, I'll go over to my neighbor's with my laptop and see what I can pick up over Adelphia. I'll let you know.
> 
> 
> Quick OT - do you have the GT and is the Antenna/Cable connector loose where you can twist it 180 degrees?



Re the connector - it's a removable RCA-to-F adapter, so yes it rotates around 360 degrees. Nothing to worry about.


I put in an email to WOW customer service. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I have the email of the Cleveland area system manager (they took it off the WOW website about 2-3 years ago, perhaps coincidentally after I started asking him all these questions about their HD services







) In my email I made the point that they are required to send the local digital channels "in the clear" by FCC mandate.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re the connector - it's a removable RCA-to-F adapter, so yes it rotates around 360 degrees. Nothing to worry about..



Thanks. Feeling a little silly about that one.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I put in an email to WOW customer service. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I have the email of the Cleveland area system manager (they took it off the WOW website about 2-3 years ago, perhaps coincidentally after I started asking him all these questions about their HD services
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) In my email I made the point that they are required to send the local digital channels "in the clear" by FCC mandate.



Good luck and while you're at it, see if you can get us WVIZ, Discovery HD Theater, and TNT-HD like Adelphia/TWC has.










I would switch but I'd have to deal with Adelphia customer service to get it.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In my email I made the point that they are required to send the local digital channels "in the clear" by FCC mandate.



Good luck with that since it's not entirely true.


See: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&post4308637


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I changed to one of those typical huge antennas (the rooftop models with all the spikes) and put it in my attic. With it I was able to get 3 and 19 (Cleveland VHF) without any problems, coverage around 95%.
> 
> 
> I was also able to turn it with a lot of trial and error to pick up Youngstown stations at about 75%, and several from Akron/Canton at 85%. I know I didn't get all Youngstown stations. If I remember correctly it was 21.1, 27.1, 27.2, and a few PBS. I was able to get 33.1 for short periods, nothing substantial. Other Youngstown stations were typically 33% and unusable. Youngstown seemed most effected by a booster. I added 20dB to get some better. I will try a few more DB sometime to see if that helps during bad weather, high atmosphere, etc.
> 
> 
> The signals are pretty fussy about antenna position. I ended up "pointing" it North (and down) such that the Cleveland VHF signals were good from the West and Youngstown was still good coming from SE. Antennas seem like a lot of voodoo, but my personal opinion is that a large size and variable booster make the most difference.



Update: I moved this huge antenna from N to pointing almost directly NE. A few channels like 19.1 and 67.1 went down to 78%, but I was able to get 33.1 and 36.4 (WYTV and MyYTV). The booster was absolutely essential, as without it all of Youngstown disappeared.


There are still a few stations I can't get that seem closer than the ones I do get, but it's probably a broadcast strength issue. The antenna search website should add this to their display, is there one that shows signal strength?


So from memory I have 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 27.2, 33.1, 36.4, 43.1, 43.2, 47.1, 47.2, 47.3, 47.4, 61.1, and 67.1 through this antenna...all with strenghts of between 70%-95%, most at 78%. I'll have to see how these do in bad weather.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good luck with that since it's not entirely true.
> 
> 
> See: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...&post4308637



Interesting. This is what WOW had to say:



> Quote:
> Thank you for contacting WOW! via email.
> 
> 
> You are mistaken in the FCC Mandate. We are being charged for carrying those stations by the broadcaster. We pass those charges along to our customers. The channels are not free to us or our customers. They are available free with an HDTV antenna and attached HDTV tuner. You will not be able to decode our HDTV signal without our HDTV receiver or cable card. If you wish to order our HDTV service, please contact us at 1-866-496-9669.



That's pretty disappointing considering Adelphia and my Comcast service in Florida carries the local digital channels in the clear.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting. That's pretty disappointing considering Adelphia and my Comcast service in Florida carries the local digital channels in the clear.



I don't know much about QAM tuners, but isn't there a difference between digital and HD digital? It appears to me from the ruleing that if they carry the locals digitally then they would be required to allow you to get it via QAM. That doesn't mean HD. For example here in newly formed TW land we get both analog, digital, and all locals that broadcast in HD. HD and digital are at two different locations.


So if WOW doesn't offer digital locals, that could explain why there is no QAM capability.


I think.


----------



## Inundated

I think Hookbill has stumbled onto the answer that's been alluding everyone, particularly those of us who assumed QAM HD locals had to be in the clear.


If TWC wanted to change that, they could, but from what I've read...it's just easier technically to do it the way they do it now. But since they have the digital SD versions (at least here on the ex-Adelphia side), they could use those to fulfill the mandate.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think Hookbill has stumbled onto the answer that's been alluding everyone, particularly those of us who assumed QAM HD locals had to be in the clear.
> 
> 
> If TWC wanted to change that, they could, but from what I've read...it's just easier technically to do it the way they do it now. But since they have the digital SD versions (at least here on the ex-Adelphia side), they could use those to fulfill the mandate.



No, that's not really it either. The cable cos that don't offer locals in the clear are leaning on the analog version of the channel as fulfilling the mandate from the FCC. Now if the analog version goes away, then the cable provider is probably obilgated to provide the primary digital channel (X.1) in the clear. The trick is the channels we are looking to be in the clear are not digital "must carry" channels and are infact "Voluntary Carriage" stations.


BEGIN QUOTE

We believe that it would facilitate the digital transition to permit cable operators that are carrying a broadcast station's analog signal on the basic tier to carry that broadcast station's digital signal on a digital tier pursuant to retransmission consent.

END QUOTE
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Ord...1/fcc01022.pdf


----------



## paule123

Can someone explain to me how the FCC's definition of "competition" allows the cable company to *not* carry the digital locals? i.e., if there's more competition, they can offer *less* to the customer?










From my consumer point of view, why wouldn't WOW provide the digital locals in the clear when their competitor (TWC/Adelphia) *is* providing them in the clear? Stupid move on WOW's part -- they've made this loyal WOW customer now consider switching to Adelphia...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From my consumer point of view, why wouldn't WOW provide the digital locals in the clear when their competitor (TWC/Adelphia) *is* providing them in the clear? Stupid move on WOW's part -- they've made this loyal WOW customer now consider switching to Adelphia...



Good point. Send them an email and see what they say.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update: I moved this huge antenna from N to pointing almost directly NE. A few channels like 19.1 and 67.1 went down to 78%, but I was able to get 33.1 and 36.4 (WYTV and MyYTV). The booster was absolutely essential, as without it all of Youngstown disappeared.
> 
> 
> There are still a few stations I can't get that seem closer than the ones I do get, but it's probably a broadcast strength issue. The antenna search website should add this to their display, is there one that shows signal strength?
> 
> 
> So from memory I have 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 27.2, 33.1, 36.4, 43.1, 43.2, 47.1, 47.2, 47.3, 47.4, 61.1, and 67.1 through this antenna...all with strenghts of between 70%-95%, most at 78%. I'll have to see how these do in bad weather.



What is on 47.1, 47.2, 47.3 & 47.4?

Digital RF ch 47 is WOAC, which on my receiver shows up as 67.1 (no other subchannels). Maybe I should rescan 47 to see what elso they have on?


BTW: It looks like youare missing the 2 Akron signals on 39 and 50 (unless the "47" you are getting is actually 46 which is WNEO from Alliance). rf 50 is ch 49 WEAO from Akron. Either one has 3 subchannels the last time I scanned.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is on 47.1, 47.2, 47.3 & 47.4?
> 
> Digital RF ch 47 is WOAC, which on my receiver shows up as 67.1 (no other subchannels). Maybe I should rescan 47 to see what elso they have on?
> 
> 
> BTW: It looks like youare missing the 2 Akron signals on 39 and 50 (unless the "47" you are getting is actually 46 which is WNEO from Alliance). rf 50 is ch 49 WEAO from Akron. Either one has 3 subchannels the last time I scanned.



Sorry, my memory was off. That should read 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, and 49.4. They are all WEAO channels.


I don't get any digital channels on 2, 39, or 50. I think I see a blip, but it doesn't surprise me I don't get them. My limited experience says that signal strength and interference are more important than distance. i.e. In the right conditions - and by turning my antenna - I can get something from 40+ miles away and totally miss something from


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, that's not really it either. The cable cos that don't offer locals in the clear are leaning on the analog version of the channel as fulfilling the mandate from the FCC. Now if the analog version goes away, then the cable provider is probably obilgated to provide the primary digital channel (X.1) in the clear. The trick is the channels we are looking to be in the clear are not digital "must carry" channels and are infact "Voluntary Carriage" stations.



Oh, OK, I get it now. Basically, they have to provide the main signal in the clear *somehow*, and if they ever dump analog, that could be digital (though not necessarily the DT/HD signal). Is that about it?


----------



## ajstan99

paule - I tried the AutumnWave OnAir GT on an Adelphia/TWC line and got a whole bunch of channels.


HD channels include: WKYC-HD, WUAB-HD, WEWS-HD, WJW-HD, WVIZ-DT, WOIO-DT, DSCHD, HDBON, TNTHD


SD channels include: OHIO, WKYC, WOIO, WEWS, WUAB, WJW, BARK


There were some quirky issues. It took two scans to bring up WEWS-HD and WJW-HD. Same for Music Choice, which like on WOW, rarely shows the static image with the song title and artist. Weather Plus showed up on the first and third scans, but not on the second - no channel name, just the number. Also channel numbers changed from scan to scan with the SD channels, HDBON, BARK and TNTHD.


Signal strength was 30-33dB across the board. Video was smooth and channel changes were relatively quick on a 1.6GHz Thinkpad.


Can't believe that I'm actually considering going back to Adelphia/TWC, but the opportunity to have a PC-based DVR and time-shifting with all those channels is pretty tempting.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, OK, I get it now. Basically, they have to provide the main signal in the clear *somehow*, and if they ever dump analog, that could be digital (though not necessarily the DT/HD signal). Is that about it?



That's my understanding. I think the idea is the basic/lifeline tier that is regulated by the FCC needs to carry at least the big 4 networks in some fashion and that tier may or may not require a cable box (see NYC/New Jersey markets).


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> paule - I tried the AutumnWave OnAir GT on an Adelphia/TWC line and got a whole bunch of channels.
> 
> 
> HD channels include: WKYC-HD, WUAB-HD, WEWS-HD, WJW-HD, WVIZ-DT, WOIO-DT, DSCHD, HDBON, TNTHD
> 
> 
> SD channels include: OHIO, WKYC, WOIO, WEWS, WUAB, WJW, BARK
> 
> 
> There were some quirky issues. It took two scans to bring up WEWS-HD and WJW-HD. Same for Music Choice, which like on WOW, rarely shows the static image with the song title and artist. Weather Plus showed up on the first and third scans, but not on the second - no channel name, just the number. Also channel numbers changed from scan to scan with the SD channels, HDBON, BARK and TNTHD.
> 
> 
> Signal strength was 30-33dB across the board. Video was smooth and channel changes were relatively quick on a 1.6GHz Thinkpad.
> 
> 
> Can't believe that I'm actually considering going back to Adelphia/TWC, but the opportunity to have a PC-based DVR and time-shifting with all those channels is pretty tempting.



I fired off a reply to the CSR at WOW about the QAM thing - told them I was thinking about switching to TWC/Adelphia. Hate to switch because I hear TWC does the rate shaping thing on the HD channels, and from what I've seen so far WOW doesn't screw with 'em.


QAM seems to be flaky on anything but the cable company box - on my LG 32LX1D in Florida on Comcast, tuning to certain QAM channels can make the whole TV reboot itself - it's crazy. I have to follow a very specific sequence to delete the "reboot" channels from memory after I'm done scanning. I've actually tuned to a "defective" QAM channel and had it erase all or some of the channels from the TV's memory, and I have to start all over again. Ridiculous.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> paule - I tried the AutumnWave OnAir GT on an Adelphia/TWC line and got a whole bunch of channels.



I get pretty much the same here, though the channel numbers have been solid on this end...even with some of the stuff you said moved around.


I had some problem scanning and keeping one of the two QAM channels that holds the HD locals - I think it was the one that has WOIO and WVIZ, but I'm not sure - but that hasn't happened since I removed an extra splitter that dropped the signal levels.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had some problem scanning and keeping one of the two QAM channels that holds the HD locals - I think it was the one that has WOIO and WVIZ, but I'm not sure - but that hasn't happened since I removed an extra splitter that dropped the signal levels.



This is what happened to me with Comcast in Florida - I couldn't pick up a bunch of the QAM locals until I bought a professional quality amp for the line and cleaned up some taps in the condo. Something tells me an official cable company box would have worked just fine without any amps or messing around. Funny how that works when you try to use your own equipment...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had some problem scanning and keeping one of the two QAM channels that holds the HD locals - I think it was the one that has WOIO and WVIZ, but I'm not sure - but that hasn't happened since I removed an extra splitter that dropped the signal levels.



I splitt off to my DVD player before my SA 8300. I have had to add a power booster in my attic because some of my stations, not the HD ones, were not getting enough signal.


Still this makes me wonder. I've had a problem with partial recordings for some time now on HD locals only (SA 8300). It appears the entire program is being recorded but when I check the list only part of the programs gets recorded. Sometimes 3 minutes, sometimes 56 minutes it always varys. It happens sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. I record about 4 shows each night.


I don't use my DVD player that much but I wonder if I should remove this splitter? I have thought of this before and looked at the signal quality with the DVD player on and I don't see any difference. Still....????


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, my memory was off. That should read 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, and 49.4. They are all WEAO channels.
> 
> 
> I don't get any digital channels on 2, 39, or 50. I think I see a blip, but it doesn't surprise me I don't get them. My limited experience says that signal strength and interference are more important than distance. i.e. In the right conditions - and by turning my antenna - I can get something from 40+ miles away and totally miss something from


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't use my DVD player that much but I wonder if I should remove this splitter? I have thought of this before and looked at the signal quality with the DVD player on and I don't see any difference. Still....????



It couldn't hurt to remove it...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interestingly, I also get a good signal from "10.3" which is listed as audio only...although I don't hear anything. Anyone know what this one is?



From where you are, that could only be (saving unusual propagation) something off of WOIO-DT, which is RF 10. Since you seem to have a mix of correct PSIP remapping and not...


You aren't close enough to WBNS-DT, which would remap to 10.x if they did it right and you got it right.


I seem to recall someone was talking about a weather subchannel popping up from time to time on WOIO-DT. I have nearly as hard a time getting it as I do WKYC-DT, so I haven't seen it OTA.


----------



## stuart628

they took the channel 10.2 (19-2 WOIOWX) down, there is no WOIO weather channel, but there is still a 3.3 NBC, which just broadcasts on 3.1, why not just eliminate 3.3 all together?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It couldn't hurt to remove it...



The more I thought about it I already I'm sure I've already tried it. It didn't make a difference.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, my memory was off. That should read 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, and 49.4. They are all WEAO channels.
> 
> 
> I don't get any digital channels on 2, 39, or 50. I think I see a blip, but it doesn't surprise me I don't get them. My limited experience says that signal strength and interference are more important than distance. i.e. In the right conditions - and by turning my antenna - I can get something from 40+ miles away and totally miss something from


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> they took the channel 10.2 (19-2 WOIOWX) down, there is no WOIO weather channel, but there is still a 3.3 NBC, which just broadcasts on 3.1, why not just eliminate 3.3 all together?



What is this 3.3 that you speak of? The only things that I get at that channel position are 3.1, WKYC-DT, and 3.2, WKYC Weather Plus. I have never seen a 3.3. And I have been receiving these pretty well for the past few weeks - they are usually a difficult catch for me.


I do remember receiving 19.2 briefly a while back, but I never saw any video on it - just a blank raster.


----------



## stuart628

3.3 shows up on my HDTIVO, and I just got this thing, its never had any locals scanned into it before, and when I scanned I picked up 3.3 which was there a while ago WKYC had stuff running on it....NOw its just a mirror of 3.1


----------



## Inundated

I think the HDTivos and the E* PVR do their own odd mapping, probably based at least in part on what their guide information has.


I wouldn't talk definitively about local stations' subchannels if you have one of the satellite boxes...it may not reflect reality.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the HDTivos and the E* PVR do their own odd mapping, probably based at least in part on what their guide information has.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't talk definitively about local stations' subchannels if you have one of the satellite boxes...it may not reflect reality.



Well my reality is its definitely on my tv, and was there when I scanned it three days ago. I dont know how the Tivos work, I just know I scanned it was there.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well my reality is its definitely on my tv, and was there when I scanned it three days ago. I dont know how the Tivos work, I just know I scanned it was there.



I wasn't saying it was not there










I was noting that the satellite DVRs seem to map channels attached to their program guides, and that their designation of the channel vs. what it is actually called OTA may not be the same. What your DVR calls "3.3" may not actually be sent out by WKYC that way.


Unfortunately, I have trouble getting WKYC and WOIO's DT channels due to their VHF status, so I can't tell you what an OTA receiver (not attached to a program guide) shows.


----------



## stuart628

okay thanks for the explination, I am still new to all of this, and my Last HDTIVo which I had till monday (yes this monday) never picked it up, and I rescanned this sunday because I am eager to get Youngstown NBC! anyways it was a suprise when it was there, and I Dont know how it got there, this box was from coloumbus ohio (but the man had done a master reset, plus cleared EVERYTHING out of this box) is it possible that the guide data was stuck?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay thanks for the explination, I am still new to all of this, and my Last HDTIVo which I had till monday (yes this monday) never picked it up, and I rescanned this sunday because I am eager to get Youngstown NBC! anyways it was a suprise when it was there, and I Dont know how it got there, this box was from coloumbus ohio (but the man had done a master reset, plus cleared EVERYTHING out of this box) is it possible that the guide data was stuck?



Hmm. Don't know if that's possible, but the CBS affiliate in Columbus is on analog 10, and presumably PSIP maps to 10.1-etc...


----------



## jezmund714

I live in Mentor just north of Lost Nation Airport south of Lakeshore, East of 306 and West of Lost Nation Rd. I had the DirecTV HDTV upgrade last year and decided to boost my OTA HD reception with an antennasdirect V21 Uni-Directional Outdoor UHF/VHF antenna over the little wing that DirecTV sent out with my new dish last year. I have a DirecTV H10 HDTV reciever.

I spent all afternoon this Saturday running up and down my ladder attempting to adjust both the dish and the antenna for the best signal strengths. The DirecTV installer combined the sat and antenna signals at the dish mount and split them before my receiver. What took me so long to realize (or hypothesize) was that when I have the new antenna connected in this fashion, the DirecTV signal drops.

I believe I have the following options:

1) run a second coax line for the antenna and bypass the signal combining and splitting

2) return the new antenna, reinstall the old antenna and add an amp to the antenna signal

3) recieve some valuable information from someone who understands this better than I do and follow their recommendations.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## stuart628

if you have the HR10-250, you can get a free upgrade to the NEW HD Dvr, and you will get all cleveland locals over the sat. and you wont have to worry about OTA.


----------



## burgher

jezmund714,


KEEP THAT ANTENNA !!! I'm in Lorain have had D* (Direct TV) HD set-up (3lnb dish) for 3yrs with an OTA rooftop (Channelmaster) antenna. 2 weeks ago I updated to the H20 with the new 5lnb dish for digital locals. I'm here to tell you that if you respect your HDTV quality you won't be happy with D*'s compressed /less than spectacular local feed. It's not as noticable with primetime filmed or recorded material but when you get into football or any LIVE broadcast the picture takes on a pre-recorded fake regurgitated quality. Plus, when motion is thrown in you'll see all kinds of artifacts that aren't there in the uncompressed OTA signal.

So, run that RG-6 to the best HDTV antenna you can afford, dump your H10 for the newer

more tuning sensitive H20 so you can have D* digital locals as a BACKUP.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> if you have the HR10-250, you can get a free upgrade to the NEW HD Dvr, and you will get all cleveland locals over the sat. and you wont have to worry about OTA.



When I spoke to D* about that last month they told me that they would not guarantee upgrade to HR-20 would be free. American Satellite told me it would but D* told me that was "premature" of them to say that. When I contacted another rep at American Satellite they told me as well that they could not say if there would be a charge for switching out to the HR-20.


----------



## stuart628

I am scheduled this thursday for a free upgrade.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am scheduled this thursday for a free upgrade.



I'm glad it's free. I just hope your not disappointed.


----------



## jezmund714

stuart628,

I think my D* reciever is an H10, not HR10-250. It does not have a DVR and is I believe an H10-200 if I read the manufacturer number right. I prefer my personally upgraded 200 hour standalone Tivo hooked up to a secondary (older) D* receiver.


burgher,

Are you saying that the additional coax line would be my best option?


----------



## paule123

Now that the CBS NFL Today pregame is HD, it's gonna be really painful when they switch to the horrible SD broadcast at 1pm in the coming weeks.


At least we get the season started in HD on Fox today!


----------



## stuart628

why would I be disapointed hookbill, do you know something I dont? I do like the tivo interface but I already have one Directv DVR in my house. also I have heard nothing but rave reviews of Directvs Mpeg4, how it looks as close to OTA as they have seen, except for the one negative comment here, and also a few stuttering video problems they have been working out, I havent heard anything negative.







Also you guys had me concerned and they just set me up for a free 5 lnb swap out no dvr swap out-DANG YOU directv for lying to me, oh well it will come soon enough, they will have a free swap out from what I am hearing! I will keep you guys posted here if anything changes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> why would I be disapointed hookbill, do you know something I dont? I do like the tivo interface but I already have one Directv DVR in my house. also I have heard nothing but rave reviews of Directvs Mpeg4, how it looks as close to OTA as they have seen, except for the one negative comment here, and also a few stuttering video problems they have been working out, I havent heard anything negative.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also you guys had me concerned and they just set me up for a free 5 lnb swap out no dvr swap out-DANG YOU directv for lying to me, oh well it will come soon enough, they will have a free swap out from what I am hearing! I will keep you guys posted here if anything changes.



Sounds like your getting a bit anxious. Hey if you don't mind going to the D* DVR and your already familiar with it then fine. I have heard more then one negative comment but I heard people say the same thing when switching from the old Microsoft Ultimate TV to TiVo.


Relax, it will be fine.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like your getting a bit anxious. Hey if you don't mind going to the D* DVR and your already familiar with it then fine. I have heard more then one negative comment but I heard people say the same thing when switching from the old Microsoft Ultimate TV to TiVo.
> 
> 
> Relax, it will be fine.




Anxious, a little as I would really love to get the Cavs in HD, thats one thing I miss from cable :-(. and I realize this box isnt perfect, but someone who had tivo from Day one said it took alot of updates to get it where it is today, and I think that is one great box!


----------



## firemantom26

Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??


----------



## Inundated

Is the DirecTV HD DVR officially out and available in Cleveland now?


My father is going to have to go through this eventually. He likes the DTiVo and wants to keep it, but he won't be able to record the MPEG4 locals if he could even get an HD TiVo anymore, let alone the fact that D* is moving to MPEG4 in general down the road.


----------



## Inundated





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??



Wish I knew. WBNX is supposedly working on it, and I suspect we may know one way or another a week from Monday at the CW launch.


----------



## burgher

jezmund-

YES on that coax line.

Again,

Does anybody know when WVIZ-25 is to begin their digital broadcasting OTA ??? In springtime the word was mid-summer. I realize they're doing minimal now around N. Royalton area but, whens the big guns comin'???? I want my OTA PBS HD Feed


----------



## stuart628

Inundated, Best buy has them now, and Directv "offically" has them starting tonight...But people have called Directv and gotten lucky, which I did too until My CSR Screwed my order up!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated, Best buy has them now, and Directv "offically" has them starting tonight...But people have called Directv and gotten lucky, which I did too until My CSR Screwed my order up!



Did they move the install date? If they did you can change it yourself on line. I had my order pushed back 2 days and went on line and moved it back to the original date. Of course it didn't do much good because I never got the install anyway, but I just thought I'd mention it to you.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> jezmund-
> 
> YES on that coax line.
> 
> Again,
> 
> Does anybody know when WVIZ-25 is to begin their digital broadcasting OTA ??? In springtime the word was mid-summer. I realize they're doing minimal now around N. Royalton area but, whens the big guns comin'???? I want my OTA PBS HD Feed



I recently e-mailed them regarding their start of high power HDTV transmissions. They responded to the message saying that hopefully sometime in 2007 they would start their full-power transmissions.


Certainly I was hoping for something sooner. WEAO-DT also stated that it would be months before their HDTV transmissions were available. For the short term we in NEO are out of luck in regards to OTA HDTV PBS programming.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jezmund714* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Mentor just north of Lost Nation Airport south of Lakeshore, East of 306 and West of Lost Nation Rd. I had the DirecTV HDTV upgrade last year and decided to boost my OTA HD reception with an antennasdirect V21 Uni-Directional Outdoor UHF/VHF antenna over the little wing that DirecTV sent out with my new dish last year. I have a DirecTV H10 HDTV reciever.
> 
> I spent all afternoon this Saturday running up and down my ladder attempting to adjust both the dish and the antenna for the best signal strengths. The DirecTV installer combined the sat and antenna signals at the dish mount and split them before my receiver. What took me so long to realize (or hypothesize) was that when I have the new antenna connected in this fashion, the DirecTV signal drops.
> 
> I believe I have the following options:
> 
> 1) run a second coax line for the antenna and bypass the signal combining and splitting
> 
> 2) return the new antenna, reinstall the old antenna and add an amp to the antenna signal
> 
> 3) recieve some valuable information from someone who understands this better than I do and follow their recommendations.
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.



My advice is to call a professional like Cleveland antenna service. Why drive yourself crazy, let them fix it and they will

Good Luck


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My advice is to call a professional like Cleveland antenna service. Why drive yourself crazy, let them fix it and they will
> 
> Good Luck



In order to split/combine antenna and digital signals you need a splitter/combiner made for that purpose. The splitter/combiner should say "digital" on one side and "VHF/UHF" on the other. Filters inside prevent one type of signal from reducing the quality on the other.


And as an update on my previous antenna exploits, I ended up physically splitting my antenna in two pieces. There is a "VHF" end and a "UHF" end . Did somebode make this up? That the V part of the antenna works best for Vhf signals, and make rounded pieces of metal for Uhf?


Anyway, it certainly works this way and by pointing them in different directions (VHF is pretty close to N, UHF is E or NE) I was able to get more stations to their maximum level. I can reach the UHF Youngstown stations better without reducing the VHF signals from Cleveland. FYI.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did they move the install date? If they did you can change it yourself on line. I had my order pushed back 2 days and went on line and moved it back to the original date. Of course it didn't do much good because I never got the install anyway, but I just thought I'd mention it to you.




No she Screwed up the order, she was suppose to order the HD DVR swap out, and 5 lnb install, which she did,but on the work order, there were no notes, so the CSR said she cant copy it, and had trouble replacing it because it baiscally stated 5lnb install, and HDDVR install (no HD DVR ordered, so I might just order a HD DVR from *********************, and have Directv install the 5 lnb, that way I know I get the New Dvr, and the new 5 lnb, and dont have to wait for Directv to offically release their equipment. ( wow, I made 5 sentences into one







I am at work and in a hurry could you tell!)



edit: just looked at Time warners website and they have a new package called all the best, it includes digital cable, phone, and The best of all (j/k) Road Runner Lite, for 99.00 a month for 6 months

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...llthebest.html


----------



## HD MM

Greetings all,


I just purchased a 42"Hitachi Plasma and am looking to get HD programming.


Currently I have a SD package through Direct TV with an OTA indoor/outdoor antenna from Radio Shack that can access Fox and ABC without a hitch. I am having problems accessing an HD signal from NBC and CBS. Currently the antenna sits on the first floor of a 2 story home. My family room has a vaulted ceiling that reaches the second story elevation. I have climbed to the top of the second floor in my family room on a ladder holding the antenna with no signal improvement from NBC or CBS.


I live in Lyndhurst which is an Eastern suburb that is just West of Mayfield and North of Beachwood. Any one here live in that area that has an HD OTA and is able to access CBS or NBC? Any tips on how to achieve a signal?


Any help/response would be appreciated?


Also, is the rumor true that Direct TV signed on to broadcast Sports Time Ohio (STO) or CBS local in HD? What about Fox Sports Net?


----------



## jtscherne

I live in South Euclid off of Green near Monticello. I get WKYC at near 100%. I generally get WOIO strong enough for a steady signal. However, I do have an rooftop antenna with a rotor, which helps to direct the antenna better.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in South Euclid off of Green near Monticello. I get WKYC at near 100%. I generally get WOIO strong enough for a steady signal. However, I do have an rooftop antenna with a rotor, which helps to direct the antenna better.



I live just South of Wilson Mills, fairly close to you. I would imagine I would be able to access just as good of a signal. What kind of antenna do you have, where did you get it?


----------



## jtscherne

I don't remember the antenna off the top of my head. It was installed by Cleveland Antenna Service. They come out with a meter to measure directions and strength so that you know what you should be able to get. I don't have their number right at hand, but I know they get mentioned in this thread pretty regularly and hopefully someone will supply it.


----------



## snagy

I also have Dir*** in bainbridge along Rt422 corridor, Cleveland Antenna did my install in late winter of this year. I get NBC great, usually at 90-100 %. WOIO is usually 80%, the ABC channel and Fox8 were coming in until about two weeks ago, now very spotty at best. Browns games on 8 was all over the place on signal meter. I have them coming out this week to see what the problem is. I did find out over the net that certain Dir*** HD receivers are having problems now with their ATSC tuners. Mine is the DTC-210 which is one of the problem models. They also installed a second antenna toward Youngstown and that one is always perfect.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't remember the antenna off the top of my head. It was installed by Cleveland Antenna Service. They come out with a meter to measure directions and strength so that you know what you should be able to get. I don't have their number right at hand, but I know they get mentioned in this thread pretty regularly and hopefully someone will supply it.



440-237-6888 ask for Jim West.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 440-237-6888 ask for Jim West.



Thanks, do they have a website? Approximately how much $ to install an antenna capable of receiving HD OTA?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've had a problem with partial recordings for some time now on HD locals only (SA 8300). It appears the entire program is being recorded but when I check the list only part of the programs gets recorded. Sometimes 3 minutes, sometimes 56 minutes it always varys. It happens sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. I record about 4 shows each night.



Is it happening right at a local commercial break? A little while back one of the broadcasters was experiencing mpeg splicing issues and it caused a symptom very similar to what you're describing. The mpeg PIDs were getting munged when a local break was inserted, if I recall correctly.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, do they have a website? Approximately how much $ to install an antenna capable of receiving HD OTA?



Hey, I used to live in Lyndhurst.







I don't know how much it is to install an antenna (probably in the $200 range...a guess based on Dish installations) but I would definately recommend the largest antenna you can afford. Certain channels are easy to get but others are very picky. Or if you don't want to go with a large one, get one that rotates. They are not that expensive and you can move it based on the time of day, weather, or channel.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, do they have a website? Approximately how much $ to install an antenna capable of receiving HD OTA?



Ballpark $200-$300 would be my guess. I have dealt with many antenna companies over the years going back to the big 10 ft dish days. Some of those installers were pretty bad and always late. This is a father and son and they are the best that I have ever dealt with in antenna issues.

I am very particular and they satisfied me.

Cost is dependent on difficulty of job and antenna.

You can trust them; they wont oversell you.

Good luck and let the forum know about your experience


----------



## HD MM

Does any one else out there find it amazing at the all of the technology we posess today and how far televisions have come since it's inception? We can now purchase 4" thick plasma displays that broadcast crystal clear images in upwards of 60+ inches! Yet, we still rely on terrestrial, ugly and sometimes large antennas and have to mess with their position to achieve a HD signal? It seems like we are back in early years of cable when we all had set-top rabbit ears with tin foil!


Just thought that it was funny. You would think this technology would be a little more advanced and easily accessed. LOL.


----------



## jtscherne

Digital television is still in the early stages. One of the problems with WKYC in particular is that it broadcasts on one of the worst frequencies. It will move eventually, but it will still be a problem in the short term.


----------



## Inundated

My father is as little as one day away from getting his new Samsung 67" DLP set, and I have one question (aside from the HD DVR one earlier







)...


Calibration. Self, or someone who does it? How much? If someone does it, anyone recommended here in Northeast Ohio that'll do it in Akron?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??



I don't think you'll see any of those signals down in Wintersville.


WBNX has the equipment, it just needs to be installed.


WVIZ has a temorary set-up at their old studios on Brookpark Road. It's 1 kw and 99' high. I just barely receive it and then only by tweaking my antenna out a window. I can't get the signal through aluminum siding, and I'm only 3 miles from WVIZ's old studio!


WVPX was assigned a digital channel on rf ch 59. That frequency is going away after the transition in 2009. They will probably flip ch 23 over to digital without a transition. It does not make economic sense for the owners of WVPX to invest in an antenna and transmitter optomized for a frequency that will be out of the TV band in 2 years.


Out of the 3 stations WVPX is probably the ony one that, on a good skip day, might make an apperance down there in Jefferson County. "I" is also the only netwotrk not carried in Pittsburgh or Youngstown, 2 markets that I'm sure you can watch there in the Steubnville area.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Calibration. Self, or someone who does it? How much? If someone does it, anyone recommended here in Northeast Ohio that'll do it in Akron?



Inundated, I have a nationally known calibrator ( Gregg Loewen of LionAV ) coming to calibrate my Samsung in late October or early November. I highly recommend him. If you contact him and remind him he'll be in our area at that time, I'm sure he would be glad to do your Dad's set the same time he does mine. It is recommended that you put some hours (100?) on the set before having it calibrated just to be sure the set doesn't have problems.


We are not allowed to discuss price on the forum, but I am able to tell you, though not inexpensive, IMHO, it is money well spent. You can find out about cost by clicking "prices" in the menu at the top of the above linked web page.


Other excellent options are Eliab of Avical (screen name Eliab here on the forum) and W. Jeff Meier of Accucal (Screen name UMR here on the forum). Both, like Gregg, tour nationally, and are well respected.


If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Inundated, I have a nationally known calibrator ( Gregg Loewen of LionAV ) coming to calibrate my Samsung in late October or early November. I highly recommend him. If you contact him and remind him he'll be in our area at that time, I'm sure he would be glad to do your Dad's set the same time he does mine. It is recommended that you put some hours (100?) on the set before having it calibrated just to be sure the set doesn't have problems.
> 
> 
> We are not allowed to discuss price on the forum, but I am able to tell you, though not inexpensive, IMHO, it is money well spent. You can find out about cost by clicking "prices" in the menu at the top of the above linked web page.
> 
> 
> Other excellent options are Eliab of Avical (screen name Eliab here on the forum) and W. Jeff Meier of Accucal (Screen name UMR here on the forum). Both, like Gregg, tour nationally, and are well respected.
> 
> 
> If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.




Greg is the king. No one does it better. Use him


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think you'll see any of those signals down in Wintersville.
> 
> 
> WBNX has the equipment, it just needs to be installed.
> 
> 
> WVIZ has a temorary set-up at their old studios on Brookpark Road. It's 1 kw and 99' high. I just barely receive it and then only by tweaking my antenna out a window. I can't get the signal through aluminum siding, and I'm only 3 miles from WVIZ's old studio!
> 
> 
> WVPX was assigned a digital channel on rf ch 59. That frequency is going away after the transition in 2009. They will probably flip ch 23 over to digital without a transition. It does not make economic sense for the owners of WVPX to invest in an antenna and transmitter optomized for a frequency that will be out of the TV band in 2 years.
> 
> 
> Out of the 3 stations WVPX is probably the ony one that, on a good skip day, might make an apperance down there in Jefferson County. "I" is also the only netwotrk not carried in Pittsburgh or Youngstown, 2 markets that I'm sure you can watch there in the Steubnville area.




I have a stacked 4228 in get 5,8,43,61,67 most of the time


----------



## paule123

I shot an email over to the Cavaliers re FSN Ohio HD coverage, and they said FSN Ohio is looking to do up to 20 games in HD for the 2006-2007 season. That's a bit of a bummer -- I was hoping for an all-HD season.


Looks like we've got a good number of national games on ABC, ESPN and TNT, so those should be HD.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Greg is the king. No one does it better. Use him



He may be great, but I'm too cheap.







I've calibrated my own using INHD's test patterns.


Close enough for rock and roll as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I shot an email over to the Cavaliers re FSN Ohio HD coverage, and they said FSN Ohio is looking to do up to 20 games in HD for the 2006-2007 season. That's a bit of a bummer -- I was hoping for an all-HD season.
> 
> 
> Looks like we've got a good number of national games on ABC, ESPN and TNT, so those should be HD.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/



Is FSNHD available through Dish or DTV? What about STO?


----------



## stuart628

FSNOhioHD, is rumored to be available when the cavs start playing, and STO is available as a game only channel in HD when the Indians play on channel 96 I believe (one of their specail events channels!)


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He may be great, but I'm too cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've calibrated my own using INHD's test patterns.
> 
> 
> Close enough for rock and roll as far as I'm concerned.



And I'm sure you've done a great job. However, without going into a TV's service menu (making changes in the service menu is *not* recommended for anyone who doesn't know exactly what he's doing. A mistake can make toast of your set), no owner can get results like a professional calibrator. While any owner, using a calibration disc, like AVIA or Digital Video Essentials, can adjust a set with the user menu to his satisfaction, it is impossible to calibrate a set close to SMPTE standards without the expensive equipment and considerable knowledge available to an ISF certified calibrator who knows what he's doing.


Most TVs are preset from the factory to be as bright as possible on the showroom floor (brighter TVs sell better). Because of this we have become accustomed to watching pictures with incorrect colors that are too bright. A calibrator can make bad performers out of the box look OK, and good performers look even better. His main goals are to make colors appear more accurate, bring out details in dark scenes, and make the overall picture look sharper.


As long as you are content with your sets Hi Def PQ, I would never tell you a professional calibration is required. But, I have found a discernible improvement with a professional calibration, and would wager you'd be amazed by having your set calibrated to SMPTE standards.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does any one else out there find it amazing at the all of the technology we posess today and how far televisions have come since it's inception? We can now purchase 4" thick plasma displays that broadcast crystal clear images in upwards of 60+ inches! Yet, we still rely on terrestrial, ugly and sometimes large antennas and have to mess with their position to achieve a HD signal? It seems like we are back in early years of cable when we all had set-top rabbit ears with tin foil!
> 
> 
> Just thought that it was funny. You would think this technology would be a little more advanced and easily accessed. LOL.



What I also find funny and ironic is that modern DLP sets rely on an old-fashioned color wheel to split the light into RGB prior to hitting the DMD chip. It's a throwback to the pre-NTSC days and the CBS mechanical "field sequential" color system.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I also find funny and ironic is that modern DLP sets rely on an old-fashioned color wheel to split the light into RGB prior to hitting the DMD chip. It's a throwback to the pre-NTSC days and the CBS mechanical "field sequential" color system.



That's true, it does seem ancient to use a spinning wheel to produce an HD picture. This is what causes the rainbow effect some see with these sets. Of course the wheel is only needed for one chip models. The 3 chip sets don't have the wheel and will probably be the way of the future.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FSNOhioHD, is rumored to be available when the cavs start playing, and STO is available as a game only channel in HD when the Indians play on channel 96 I believe (one of their specail events channels!)



This is for D* only.


Dish at this point doesn't offer any regional sports networks in HD. They are actually testing a number of them, but currently, Fox Sports Ohio is not one of them and I'm sure they have no interest in STO at this time of the year.


----------



## Inundated

Rijax, thanks for the tip. I've squirreled away the web links you gave, and will approach him with this later. I don't know if he'll do it or not...it'll probably depend on how good it looks to him at home when he gets it set up. But if he has any concerns or whatnot, he'll certainly be able to afford it.


There would certainly be enough "burn in" by the time that guy is in the area.


I do NOT want him (or even me!) calibrating based on test patterns. Even with my own knowledge, it's a recipe for disaster.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do NOT want him (or even me!) calibrating based on test patterns. Even with my own knowledge, it's a recipe for disaster.



Recipe for disaster? Hardley, all you really do is adjust the brightness and contrast, at least with my set. Hues and colors remained at factory setting. The length and width of the picture is a bit difficult to adjust but it's not like you screw things up so bad you can't just put it back.


Not a professional job but with a crt hd it works quite well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Most TVs are preset from the factory to be as bright as possible on the showroom floor (brighter TVs sell better). Because of this we have become accustomed to watching pictures with incorrect colors that are too bright. A calibrator can make bad performers out of the box look OK, and good performers look even better. His main goals are to make colors appear more accurate, bring out details in dark scenes, and make the overall picture look sharper.
> 
> 
> As long as you are content with your sets Hi Def PQ, I would never tell you a professional calibration is required. But, I have found a discernible improvement with a professional calibration, and would wager you'd be amazed by having your set calibrated to SMPTE standards.



I do admit that during dark scenes I want to raise the contrast and it's exactly what you are talking about, colors arn't sharp enough.


But for a football game or baseball game, it's perfect.


----------



## HDTD

Here are the games I know to be in HD for the Cavs locally, I don't know why every game isn't HD. It's not like we don't have the best/most valuable marketing wise player in the NBA on the team.


11/7 Atlanta

11/21 Memphis

12/1 @ Atlanta

12/11 @ NO/OKC

12/13 Charlotte

12/27 @ Atlanta

12/29 Milwaukee

12/30 @ Chicago


1/2 San Antonio

1/5 @ Milwaukee

1/6 New Jersey

1/16 @ Seattle

1/19 @ Denver

1/30 Golden State

2/27 NO/OKC

3/5 Houston

3/13 Sacramento

3/20 @ Charlotte

3/27 @ Indiana

3/31 @ Chicago


----------



## jtscherne

I'm sure they don't have a dedicated HD truck and have to contract it out. I don't disagree that they should though!!!


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm sure they don't have a dedicated HD truck and have to contract it out. I don't disagree that they should though!!!




Since they're all rentals anyway that shouldn't matter. But they're likely to go with one of two companies and both have access to HD trucks. There's been such an explosion in HD truck building that now to have a team like the Cavs have one for every game is not an issue.


If they wanted to do every game in HD there's the technical ability to do it. Probably comes down to money.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is for D* only.
> 
> 
> Dish at this point doesn't offer any regional sports networks in HD. They are actually testing a number of them, but currently, Fox Sports Ohio is not one of them and I'm sure they have no interest in STO at this time of the year.



Thank you I did forget to mention that.


----------



## Phoenix2088

For all the game show fans here, I have just found out that WEWS is planning to start airing Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD starting the week of 9/25.


----------



## burgher

HD mm,

Watched some of the Indians last night on HD channel 96. Apparently STO is now being broadcast in HD there. Just started within the last few days.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HD mm,
> 
> Watched some of the Indians last night on HD channel 96. Apparently STO is now being broadcast in HD there. Just started within the last few days.



By _there_ do you mean OTA or Dish/DirecTV? I didn't see STO listed as broadcasting in digital, but maybe it was old info.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By _there_ do you mean OTA or Dish/DirecTV? I didn't see STO listed as broadcasting in digital, but maybe it was old info.



I am wondering the same thing, channel 96 OTA/D*/E* ???? I know the Tribe has been broadcast in HD on NBC periodically throughout the year. Any word if they are doing any more games this season? What about the upcomming MLB playoffs, will they be broadcast primarily on fox hd?


I just bought my plasma last week and have HD via OTA only while I subscribe to SD via Direct TV. (I am still debating between cancelling D* and going with E*)


Update on my OTA: I tinkered with the antenna enough to receive all locals through my OTA. (Pointing North/South I receive abc, fox. Pointing East/West I receive nbc/cbs.) Wow! I couldn't get enough House, Law and Order, Dancing with the Stars. What a difference viewing experience is in High Def! I will watch anything in HD! Lol! Hopefully the novelty doesn't wear off. Looking forward to Sunday Night Football and eventually 24 in HD! Jack Bauer is my hero.


----------



## KennedyJ

Greetings from North Ridgeville. I just put up a Channel Master 3016 in my attic to receive local HD broadcasts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very inexpensive antenna allows me to receive a 100% signal on FOX and ABC, and a 65-85% signal on NBC and CBS. I was wondering how the weather can affect the signal strength of OTA. I'm no stranger to satellite (d*) signal loss during rain storms. Is OTA affected equally by rain? Is reception better/worse during particular seasons?


----------



## HD MM

I found an answer to part of my question regarding the Tribe in HD.


The last OTA HD broadcast of the Cleveland Indians on WKYC, 3.1 will be on Sunday October 1st.


Here is a great link to reference all sports games which broadcast in HD.

HD Sports Guide


----------



## hookbill

All home games were broadcast this year in HD on STO or sometimes WKYC. It's just a question as to whether or not your provider gave you the broadcast.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By _there_ do you mean OTA or Dish/DirecTV? I didn't see STO listed as broadcasting in digital, but maybe it was old info.



Channel 96 is the designated place for STO HD and is only available to DirecTV users with the new MPEG4 equipment. Since I have the old MPEG2 D* receiver, I can't comment on how long or how often D* puts up STO HD on that channel. The SD version of STO is on D* channel 657.


On my cable provider, Wide Open West, channel 221 is STO HD and all the home games in HD are available there. All the Indians games (home and away) are available in SD on WOW channel 72.


Go to www.sportstimeohio.com to select your provider and see what the SD and HD channels are for STO.


Oh, and technically speaking, you can't get STO over-the-air except for when WKYC shows the select few games.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Greetings from North Ridgeville. I just put up a Channel Master 3016 in my attic to receive local HD broadcasts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very inexpensive antenna allows me to receive a 100% signal on FOX and ABC, and a 65-85% signal on NBC and CBS. I was wondering how the weather can affect the signal strength of OTA. I'm no stranger to satellite (d*) signal loss during rain storms. Is OTA affected equally by rain? Is reception better/worse during particular seasons?



Not only is the signal affected by weather, it is also affected by time of day and content. At night when the atmosphere is lower, your percentages should be higher than in the morning when the atmosphere is higher. Also, there is a lot more information for an HD broadcast than other parts of the day when they use the digital channel for SD material. I began to get errors and lost information during HD and no problems with SD.


So I kept moving my antenna up, down, turned, and in the end I split it into two pieces (a UHF and VHF end) to get the best from all channels. A 95% signal will do very well in bad weather, in the morning, with HD material. A 65% signal will tend to have errors under those conditions.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Greetings from North Ridgeville. I just put up a Channel Master 3016 in my attic to receive local HD broadcasts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very inexpensive antenna allows me to receive a 100% signal on FOX and ABC, and a 65-85% signal on NBC and CBS. I was wondering how the weather can affect the signal strength of OTA. I'm no stranger to satellite (d*) signal loss during rain storms. Is OTA affected equally by rain? Is reception better/worse during particular seasons?



DT OTA seems to be especially crappy and annoying on high wind days.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DT OTA seems to be especially crappy and annoying on high wind days.



Except for lightning, I never notice weather issues with my roof top antenna and OTA HD. But, I do live in North Royalton (around 6 miles from the Parma antenna farm) and all my digital stations register in the "low 90's" on my HD Tivo signal strength reading.


----------



## KennedyJ

Thanks for the insight guys. That was interesting information on the atmospheric conditions.


----------



## Andrew K

If I was able to, I would have had an outdoor antenna long ago, but I live in an apartment where that's not possible. In my opinion, DTV still has a long ways to go (mainly the broadcasters problem and not on my end). I use the silver sensor, which is probably the best indoor antenna I've experienced. It can pick up analogs great, but I often have to fiddle with it a lot to get the digitals I want. It shouldn't be that way. It seems like whenever I can get a decent analog picture, although a bit staticy, I can't get any picture on digital. I'm wondering what the allowable broadcast powers will be after the transition. I've heard that it takes less power with digital because less information is broadcasted, is that true? I'm wondering if it would be a bad thing for a DT UHF station to exceed 1000kw. Are there any opinions on this?


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am wondering the same thing, channel 96 OTA/D*/E* ???? I know the Tribe has been broadcast in HD on NBC periodically throughout the year. Any word if they are doing any more games this season? What about the upcomming MLB playoffs, will they be broadcast primarily on fox hd?
> 
> 
> I just bought my plasma last week and have HD via OTA only while I subscribe to SD via Direct TV. (I am still debating between cancelling D* and going with E*)
> 
> 
> Update on my OTA: I tinkered with the antenna enough to receive all locals through my OTA. (Pointing North/South I receive abc, fox. Pointing East/West I receive nbc/cbs.) Wow! I couldn't get enough House, Law and Order, Dancing with the Stars. What a difference viewing experience is in High Def! I will watch anything in HD! Lol! Hopefully the novelty doesn't wear off. Looking forward to Sunday Night Football and eventually 24 in HD! Jack Bauer is my hero.










Pretty much how I felt when I fired up my HD for the first time. I'd stay up late to watch Letterman or Leno or anything else I could tune in.


HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i). NBC football for the most part looks good but they still have some blurry graphics issues every once in a while. The OSU ABC game looked good last Saturday.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much how I felt when I fired up my HD for the first time. I'd stay up late to watch Letterman or Leno or anything else I could tune in.
> 
> 
> HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i).



CBS is 1080i. FOX 720p. ABC 720p. NBC 1080i ESPN 720p.


I like FOX best.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much how I felt when I fired up my HD for the first time. I'd stay up late to watch Letterman or Leno or anything else I could tune in.
> 
> 
> HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i). NBC football for the most part looks good but they still have some blurry graphics issues every once in a while. The OSU ABC game looked good last Saturday.



The Browns game on Fox looked great also. Too bad that's the 1 of 2 times they will be broadcast in HD this year. The other, against the Steelers on NFL Network.


----------



## Phoenix2088




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i).



CBS is 1080i, but you're right they do have the best NFL presentation PQ wise IMO.


----------



## eml626

NFL HD look sbest on CBS because they invested in special Sony Camera's that are just far superior to those used by Fox. This is also the reason why all Fox games are in HD and CBS only has 2 or 3. Camera expense. You be the Judge NFC= almost all games in HD PQ good. AFC= a few games in HD PQ great. I love HD and PQ but I will have to go with fox on this one, they made the right choice. In this day and age with all local games available in local areas, if you have a bad team in the AFC you will not be likely to see HD.


Could not imagine how good CBS's broadcast would look in 720P


----------



## paule123

Based on this past Sunday games, Fox is now looking better than CBS. I never thought I would say that. Based on my recording of the Chiefs/Bengals game it looks like WOIO (CBS) is not giving full bandwidth to us anymore. The Chiefs/Bengals game on CBS had pixelation that I've never seen before on CBS.


----------



## Michael P 2341

For those of you that can get both the Cleveland stations and WKBN-DT you will be treated to access of 2 extra NFL games this Sunday.


While both WOIO and WKBN will have the same Browns - Bengals game at 1 PM, at 4:15 you will have a choice of KC @ Den (WOIO) or NE @ NYJ (WKBN).


Over on FOX WYFX (WKBN-DT's subchannel 27-2) will have a 1 PM game NYG @ PHI, while WJW willhave AZ @ Sea at 4 PM.


UPDATE (per J.P.Kirby):

WOIO just changed the 4 PM game to NE @ NYJ, so that's one less game for us









A bunch of Ohio markets changed this game. The closest market still carrying KC @ DEN is Detroit.


----------



## lefkas

The unfortunate problem is that 27-2 only broadcasts in SD (even though its affiliate FOX is broadcasting most games in HD) while 27-1, which normally broadcasts in HD, is only getting an SD feed from CBS. Too bad it can't be the other way around (at least on the weekends) for us football fans. Can the station switch the HD signal between its sub-channels?


----------



## stuart628

just to update everyone, my AT9 is up on the roof, and the guy did a GREAT job, Two monopoles, Drip loop, and Ground block, all new Compression Fittings, a real nice guy! and my HR20 will be here any time now, any minute I am expecting UPS!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The unfortunate problem is that 27-2 only broadcasts in SD (even though its affiliate FOX is broadcasting most games in HD) while 27-1, which normally broadcasts in HD, is only getting an SD feed from CBS. Too bad it can't be the other way around (at least on the weekends) for us football fans. Can the station switch the HD signal between its sub-channels?



HUH? WKBN-DT is in HD on CBS. I watch it nearly every day. Unless there is something different about football games, everything else I've seen that is available in HD on CBS is HD on KBN.


----------



## lefkas

Yes. That's the point. Most of the CBS/AFC games are not broadcast in HD thereby wasting 27-1's HD capability. Conversely, most of the FOX football games are in HD, but 27-2 only broadcasts in SD.


----------



## stuart628

well I got the New Hr20 tonight, Great box, everything looks really really good on it, even HD is better then on my HR10, anyways everything is smooth, all Locals look great live, really no difference between Mpeg4 and OTa. My only problem is abc, while great live, it is full of glitches when you record, sorta like a very low signal on atenna. I would say its directv, but it cant be I dont think....again it looks great live, so it has to be in the data stream from abc right?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes. That's the point. Most of the CBS/AFC games are not broadcast in HD thereby wasting 27-1's HD capability. Conversely, most of the FOX football games are in HD, but 27-2 only broadcasts in SD.



O.K., I see your point. On CBS doubleheader days there is a possibility that the second game may be in HD, such as the NE @ NYJ game.


In case anybody is interested, I got the information on which game is in which market from J.P.Kirby's excellent site:
http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/ 


In case any of you get a different OOM CBS & FOX via satellite you can see which game is scheduled for each market.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> well I got the New Hr20 tonight, Great box, everything looks really really good on it, even HD is better then on my HR10, anyways everything is smooth, all Locals look great live, really no difference between Mpeg4 and OTa. My only problem is abc, while great live, it is full of glitches when you record, sorta like a very low signal on atenna. I would say its directv, but it cant be I dont think....again it looks great live, so it has to be in the data stream from abc right?




Glad things went well. I think those "gliches" that you see are probably something in the DVR that's just not translating the digitally encoded information properly. I get them all the time, and sometimes it seems like I have a bunch of shows then other times I don't see them for weeks. I never watch anything "live" except sports and I don't see the same glitches watching live events that I do when recording a show.


----------



## burgher

stuart628,

What have you seen LIVE with your HR20 ??? I set up my H20 2 weeks ago and am very disheartened about live baseball & football. It takes on somekind of strange pre-recorded look (compressed bandwidth ??) . Theres even a flashing tracer from the baseball as its headed toward home plate. Anykind of motion in a live sports telecast is a bit jittery.

I see a tremendous difference between the OTA signal and D*'s digital feed.

Again, what LIVE telecasts have you seen ???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> stuart628,
> 
> What have you seen LIVE with your HR20 ??? I set up my H20 2 weeks ago and am very disheartened about live baseball & football. It takes on somekind of strange pre-recorded look (compressed bandwidth ??) . Theres even a flashing tracer from the baseball as its headed toward home plate. Anykind of motion in a live sports telecast is a bit jittery.
> 
> I see a tremendous difference between the OTA signal and D*'s digital feed.
> 
> Again, what LIVE telecasts have you seen ???



Just curious. You say YOU set up your H20. Did you not have a professional install, or just replaced current equipment?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> stuart628,
> 
> What have you seen LIVE with your HR20 ??? I set up my H20 2 weeks ago and am very disheartened about live baseball & football. It takes on somekind of strange pre-recorded look (compressed bandwidth ??) . Theres even a flashing tracer from the baseball as its headed toward home plate. Anykind of motion in a live sports telecast is a bit jittery.
> 
> I see a tremendous difference between the OTA signal and D*'s digital feed.
> 
> Again, what LIVE telecasts have you seen ???



i watched the Tribe Game last night..it was LIVE, I watched duet with the stars (well my wife flipped there till I told her to get back to the office, and it was LIVE. Also no problems here, baseball has a stutter problem( ITS NOT BAD) but as far as picture quality I think this looks great. My friend you have maybe a bad box? I dont see a flashing tracer. I do see the jittery problem, but again, its not bad, and I think its on STO, and WKYCs end, or it could be a kink in the system they are still working out, Time warners first telecasts didnt go over smoothly in fact I remember seeing even worse jittery video.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i watched the Tribe Game last night..it was LIVE, I watched duet with the stars (well my wife flipped there till I told her to get back to the office, and it was LIVE. Also no problems here, baseball has a stutter problem( ITS NOT BAD) but as far as picture quality I think this looks great. My friend you have maybe a bad box? I dont see a flashing tracer. I do see the jittery problem, but again, its not bad, and I think its on STO, and WKYCs end, or it could be a kink in the system they are still working out, Time warners first telecasts didnt go over smoothly in fact I remember seeing even worse jittery video.



Where did you get your HR20? They still aren't available to purchase directly through D* correct? Also, did you have the new satellite installed proffeionally?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i watched the Tribe Game last night..it was LIVE, I watched duet with the stars (well my wife flipped there till I told her to get back to the office, and it was LIVE. Also no problems here, baseball has a stutter problem( ITS NOT BAD) but as far as picture quality I think this looks great. My friend you have maybe a bad box? I dont see a flashing tracer. I do see the jittery problem, but again, its not bad, and I think its on STO, and WKYCs end, or it could be a kink in the system they are still working out, Time warners first telecasts didnt go over smoothly in fact I remember seeing even worse jittery video.



I'm not seeing any stuttering problems on STO or WKYC live. When I record I do sometimes.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NFL HD looks best on CBS because they invested in special Sony Camera's that are just far superior to those used by Fox. This is also the reason why all Fox games are in HD and CBS only has 2 or 3. Camera expense. You be the Judge NFC= almost all games in HD PQ good. AFC= a few games in HD PQ great. I love HD and PQ but I will have to go with fox on this one, they made the right choice. In this day and age with all local games available in local areas, if you have a bad team in the AFC you will not be likely to see HD.
> 
> 
> Could not imagine how good CBS's broadcast would look in 720P



CBS doesn't have those cameras across the board. They rent from different mobile vendors, two of which have trucks spec'd out for CBS' broadcasts. Yes, on NEP Supershooter 24, their "A" game truck, they do have very good Sony HDC-900 cameras. If you were side-by-side with the CBS "A" truck and Fox "A" truck, you'd be hard pressed to see a real difference in picture quality. The reality is Fox uses even better cameras on many of their shows when using Game Creek Video trucks who have the Sony HDC-1500 cameras.


In talking with the CBS "A" director, and CBS' chief of engineering. The reason you only see 2 or 3 HD games is not because of expense of having Sony cameras, yet the CBS Broadcast Center in New York, can't handle more than three feeds. From studio/commercial integration to regionalizing the transmission feed to affiliates. They admit they're way behind the times on that.



Most of your PQ loss, if any, comes in encoding/transmission. I wouldn't blame Fox or CBS, I'd blame your local station, cable operator, satellite provider first. See how they process the signal before jumping to the conclusion that one has better cameras.


----------



## paule123

HDTD, maybe you know the answer to this - do cable companies typically re-compress the MPEG2 HD stream that comes in from the source? Or do they just "convert" (not re-compress) it to "QAM". Not sure if I am using the correct terms...


I understand DirecTV re-compresses the incoming MPEG2 to MPEG2 again for delivery to the customer, so I understand why their HD picture looks relatively crappy, but I've never been sure about what the cable companies do.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HDTD, maybe you know the answer to this - do cable companies typically re-compress the MPEG2 HD stream that comes in from the source? Or do they just "convert" (not re-compress) it to "QAM". Not sure if I am using the correct terms...
> 
> 
> I understand DirecTV re-compresses the incoming MPEG2 to MPEG2 again for delivery to the customer, so I understand why their HD picture looks relatively crappy, but I've never been sure about what the cable companies do.



Cable companies do not convert the signal. It's been discussed here many times before.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where did you get your HR20? They still aren't available to purchase directly through D* correct? Also, did you have the new satellite installed proffeionally?



I got it from *********************. and with 2 day shipping (shipped one day earlier then the national release date of the 13th, it was at my house yesterday! and yes bluegrass did the satellite install, I would have but the tweeking on that bad boy is a beast! They did a great job, I am very very happy right now.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing any stuttering problems on STO or WKYC live. When I record I do sometimes.



It was when they first started, a couple people reported seeing it if I remember correctly. I know it was that way when I was over my neighbors house.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was when they first started, a couple people reported seeing it if I remember correctly. I know it was that way when I was over my neighbors house.



Oh, heck yes. When they first started they had all kinds of problems. They pretty well worked them out.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HDTD, maybe you know the answer to this - do cable companies typically re-compress the MPEG2 HD stream that comes in from the source? Or do they just "convert" (not re-compress) it to "QAM". Not sure if I am using the correct terms...
> 
> 
> I understand DirecTV re-compresses the incoming MPEG2 to MPEG2 again for delivery to the customer, so I understand why their HD picture looks relatively crappy, but I've never been sure about what the cable companies do.




Personally I don't know for sure, maybe some our of station engineers on the forum can enlighten us, but I'm pretty certain they'd have to...just for bandwidth I think they'd be forced to recompress. How else would it leave the shop if they're not re-encoding/re-compressing?


I can tell just by looking there's no way I'm getting a full un/re compressed signal from TimeWarner than if I took the same stream that they take.


If they don't at least cross convert it, then how does 720p programming hit a 1080i only box?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If they don't at least cross convert it, then how does 720p programming hit a 1080i only box?



Programming is transmitted at it's native scan-rate and the scan-rate conversion happens inside of the set-top box, depending on the output resolution selected by the user. That choice is based upon the resolutions and scan rates supported by the customer's set.


The only sets that I've seen that don't support all resolution are some of the CRT-based sets. This seems to be related to the fact that the yoke and it's associated driver circuits are part of a tuned circuit and cannot easily/cheaply be switched between progressive and interlaced.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Programming is transmitted at it's native scan-rate and the scan-rate conversion happens inside of the set-top box, depending on the output resolution selected by the user. That choice is based upon the resolutions and scan rates supported by the customer's set.
> 
> 
> The only sets that I've seen that don't support all resolution are some of the CRT-based sets. This seems to be related to the fact that the yoke and it's associated driver circuits are part of a tuned circuit and cannot easily/cheaply be switched between progressive and interlaced.



Correct, and fwiw my CRT which is 1080i native does translate 780p, quite nicely. I have my box deliver the signal "as is" and allow my set to do the conversion. My SA 8300 is set up for 780p, 1080i and 480p.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Personally I don't know for sure, maybe some our of station engineers on the forum can enlighten us, but I'm pretty certain they'd have to...just for bandwidth I think they'd be forced to recompress. How else would it leave the shop if they're not re-encoding/re-compressing?



It is highly likely that it is the same compressed stream sent from the station remodulated to QAM for cable transmission. IIRC QAM256 allows for more than one HD program on the frequency which is greater bandwidth than OTA.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is highly likely that it is the same compressed stream sent from the station remodulated to QAM for cable transmission. IIRC QAM256 allows for more than one HD program on the frequency which is greater bandwidth than OTA.



I am also curious as to whether any cable companies in the Cleveland market are "rate-shaping", which would imply a recompression step at the headend. Ken H in another thread the other day listed off a bunch of cable companies that do this (including TWC and WOW, but not necessarily here in Cleveland)


----------



## Phoenix2088

WOW does not currently employ rate-shaping on their HD channels, but I do not know about TWC. Differences in PQ compared to an OTA broadcast is more than likely due to the actual set-top box (SA3250/SA8300) than the incoming signal from the cable company.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, heck yes. When they first started they had all kinds of problems. They pretty well worked them out.



I think thats the same with Mpeg4, its a new thing, they are still working out the kinks, but if things are only to get better, I am very very happy, bring on the 150 Hd channels (capacity) in 2007!


----------



## burgher

Hey folks, I wrote earlier about the strange look of the D* digital locals. Yesterday was a perfect example 3 college football games across the board NBC (1080i), ABC (720p) & CBS (1080i). When I jump back and forth between OTA & D* digital feed (H20 w/5lnb dish) you can easily see a pre-recorded flat look with jittery action on both WKYC & WOIO. On OTA offerings 3.1 & 19.1 were flawless & live looking like they should be. ABC's signal was exactly the same (fine) OTA vs. D* feed (thats more like it). This isn't an equipment issue. I have two other sources on my block with the same problem.

Just wondering if D* is having some difficulty with processing a 1080i signal for Cleveland & other major markets. It seems that way. I've seen this on other forums.

Any input???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey folks, I wrote earlier about the strange look of the D* digital locals. Yesterday was a perfect example 3 college football games across the board NBC (1080i), ABC (720p) & CBS (1080i). When I jump back and forth between OTA & D* digital feed (H20 w/5lnb dish) you can easily see a pre-recorded flat look with jittery action on both WKYC & WOIO. On OTA offerings 3.1 & 19.1 were flawless & live looking like they should be. ABC's signal was exactly the same (fine) OTA vs. D* feed (thats more like it). This isn't an equipment issue. I have two other sources on my block with the same problem.
> 
> Just wondering if D* is having some difficulty with processing a 1080i signal for Cleveland & other major markets. It seems that way. I've seen this on other forums.
> 
> Any input???



I don't think there is any question that the signal is converted so I think it really has to do with how good your television is in receiving the coverted signal. I think that if you have a really good HD television you probably will see these signal problems better then someone like me who has a CRT unit.


Just speculating because I don't have D* myself, but I have read this theory many times in these forums.


----------



## stuart628

actually CRts have been known to display a beter image, but that is a converation for another time!










Also, I do kinda see what you are talking about, like out of every 16 frams, 2 are missing, but its not that big of a deal, MPEG4 is still new to directv and I think what you are seeing is a result of first generation tuners, they are working on upgrading everything as we speak!


----------



## RussTC3

Why is Bull Riding on FOX 8?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why is Bull Riding on FOX 8?



I don't believe they're allowed to carry another NFL game at the same time a home-team is playing.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey folks, I wrote earlier about the strange look of the D* digital locals. Yesterday was a perfect example 3 college football games across the board NBC (1080i), ABC (720p) & CBS (1080i). When I jump back and forth between OTA & D* digital feed (H20 w/5lnb dish) you can easily see a pre-recorded flat look with jittery action on both WKYC & WOIO. On OTA offerings 3.1 & 19.1 were flawless & live looking like they should be. ABC's signal was exactly the same (fine) OTA vs. D* feed (thats more like it). This isn't an equipment issue. I have two other sources on my block with the same problem.
> 
> Just wondering if D* is having some difficulty with processing a 1080i signal for Cleveland & other major markets. It seems that way. I've seen this on other forums.
> 
> Any input???



I have read over at www.dbstalk.com that the problem has been identified as an issue with the encoders used to uplink the signal from local affiliates to D*. They are in the process of changing out the equipment station by station acrross the country.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why is Bull Riding on FOX 8?



FOX 8 decided no one would watch whatever NFC game they put up against the Browns in Cleveland at 1:00 so they opted to show their game at 4:00 instead and go up against the Jets vs. Pats game. Cleveland still got it's 3 games OTA during the day, just only 1 in the 1:00 time slot. Obviously not showing a 1 O'Clock game forced alternate programming so we got bull riding...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FOX 8 decided no one would watch whatever NFC game they put up against the Browns in Cleveland at 1:00 so they opted to show their game at 4:00 instead and go up against the Jets vs. Pats game. Cleveland still got it's 3 games OTA during the day, just only 1 in the 1:00 time slot. Obviously not showing a 1 O'Clock game forced alternate programming so we got bull riding...



Like k2rj said, it's against the "rules" for another network to show another game at the same time slot as the home team's game. Of course the "rules" are subject to exceptions, like last week when CBS showed a game at 1pm at the same time as the Browns game on Fox at 1pm. But as was explained to me in the NFL Maps thread, the reason was because CBS had golf or tennis or something at 4pm so CBS got to break the "rules" last week. CBS and Fox also alternate doubleheaders from week to week, so that affects what is broadcast. The rules are so convoluted I've given up trying to figure them out and just accept what's in my on-screen guide on Sunday morning.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cable companies do not convert the signal. It's been discussed here many times before.



The best discussion I've seen on OTA v. cable v. satellite HD picture quality is at
http://tech.yahoo.com/qa/20060816170814AAYfi9P . The basic answer is that it all depends on what the local TV station, cable company or satellite provider is doing any given time. Personally, for PQ, I feel OTA is the best. For convenience and ease of use though, I have to go with cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The best discussion I've seen on OTA v. cable v. satellite HD picture quality is at
> http://tech.yahoo.com/qa/20060816170814AAYfi9P . The basic answer is that it all depends on what the local TV station, cable company or satellite provider is doing any given time. Personally, for PQ, I feel OTA is the best. For convenience and ease of use though, I have to go with cable.



I'm not quite sure we were discussing all three. Just cable vs. D*.


But since you brought up OTA I haven't a clue other then what I read, which generally says very little difference between OTA and cable. It would depend on your own equipment (again).


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FOX 8 decided no one would watch whatever NFC game they put up against the Browns in Cleveland at 1:00 so they opted to show their game at 4:00 instead and go up against the Jets vs. Pats game. Cleveland still got it's 3 games OTA during the day, just only 1 in the 1:00 time slot. Obviously not showing a 1 O'Clock game forced alternate programming so we got bull riding...



But stupidly, the Browns game wasn't broadcast in HD on CBS. The games afterward and on Fox were, but the Browns weren't and it looked horrible. It looked especially bad on my set since CBS always broadcasts in 1080i, and my A2000 has certain setups it uses to get the most out of the picture (deinterlacing, noise reduction, etc). It doesn't expect a 480i signal to be broadcast on (or maybe strangly converted to) 1080i.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like k2rj said, it's against the "rules" for another network to show another game at the same time slot as the home team's game.



But we don't have a professional football team in our town, so we should be able to watch pro teams play at the same time our amateurs are playing. Frankly, watching bull riding would be less painful than watching the Browns.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But stupidly, the Browns game wasn't broadcast in HD on CBS. The games afterward and on Fox were, but the Browns weren't and it looked horrible. It looked especially bad on my set since CBS always broadcasts in 1080i, and my A2000 has certain setups it uses to get the most out of the picture (deinterlacing, noise reduction, etc). It doesn't expect a 480i signal to be broadcast on (or maybe strangly converted to) 1080i.



Since CBS only broadcasts 3 games in HD per weekend, I don't think you'll be seeing the Browns in high definition very much...


2 that definitely will be:


Dec. 7 - NFL Network (if you can get it) It will be shown locally on Channel 8 (I think!), but I'd be surprised if they showed it in HD, especially since the ESPN games were never broadcast on the local station in HD


Dec 24 - Fox game


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since CBS only broadcasts 3 games in HD per weekend, I don't think you'll be seeing the Browns in high definition very much...
> 
> 
> 2 that definitely will be:
> 
> 
> Dec. 7 - NFL Network (if you can get it) It will be shown locally on Channel 8 (I think!), but I'd be surprised if they showed it in HD, especially since the ESPN games were never broadcast on the local station in HD
> 
> 
> Dec 24 - Fox game



Why only 3? Does it cost more to broadcast? Last week it was in HD and was very nice to watch. Is there a place online to lookup which games will be in HD?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why only 3? Does it cost more to broadcast? Last week it was in HD and was very nice to watch. Is there a place online to lookup which games will be in HD?



It is my understanding that there is a equipment limitation for CBS that only allows them to do 3 games. I don't know if this is merely trucks, distribution, or what.



Check here for HD games: http://www.hdsportsguide.com


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is my understanding that there is a equipment limitation for CBS that only allows them to do 3 games. I don't know if this is merely trucks, distribution, or what.
> 
> 
> 
> Check here for HD games: http://www.hdsportsguide.com



From various forums I thought I read somewhere that Fox's HD cameras are "lower" quality then cbs, and they went and spent more for the "higher" quality...they decided quality/quanity....take it with a grain of salt, thats just what I have read.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Another source for HD games: http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/ 

In addition you will see what games are carried in every market. If you live in an area where you can receive stations from 2 markets, you may just get to see an extra game. For example i was able to see the Giants come from behind to beat the Eagles in overtime on the WYFX subchannel. It was only in SD, however it was better than not getting access to the game.


As for why WJW carried the 4 PM game yesterday, it had nothing to do with the Browns, as that game was on the road. FOX had the singleheader. I agree with DaMavs, they couldn't compete with the Browns so they wisely opted for the 4 PM game. This set up a "FOX doubleheader" for anyone getting both WJW and WYFX (a'la WKBN-DT) in a week where FOX only had a singleheader. I bounced back and forth between the Browns and the Giants/Eagles game, watching the O.T. ending after the agony in Cincinnati was over.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But we don't have a professional football team in our town, so we should be able to watch pro teams play at the same time our amateurs are playing. Frankly, watching bull riding would be less painful than watching the Browns.



Old joke I use to say all the time when I lived in N. KY. Appropriate now.


What does Cleveland have in common with Los Angeles?


Neither has a professional football team.
























C'mon fellows, you got nothing else better to do.


Pray for my Dodgers!!!!


Now back to our regular topic....


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since CBS only broadcasts 3 games in HD per weekend, I don't think you'll be seeing the Browns in high definition very much...
> 
> 
> 2 that definitely will be:
> 
> 
> Dec. 7 - NFL Network (if you can get it) It will be shown locally on Channel 8 (I think!), but I'd be surprised if they showed it in HD, especially since the ESPN games were never broadcast on the local station in HD
> 
> 
> Dec 24 - Fox game




I think it's next to impossible for Fox 8 to currently receive and redistribute NFL Network HD games, unless it were to come down the Fox network path. I think they're set-up for that only.


Same reason may be why they don't have Seinfeld syndication in HD. I know they were working on it, but haven't watched it recently to see if they ever made the jump to HD with respect to non-Fox network programming.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it's next to impossible for Fox 8 to currently receive and redistribute NFL Network HD games, unless it were to come down the Fox network path. I think they're set-up for that only.
> 
> 
> Same reason may be why they don't have Seinfeld syndication in HD. I know they were working on it, but haven't watched it recently to see if they ever made the jump to HD with respect to non-Fox network programming.



Syndicated programing is vastly different than a live feed. I will agree that FOX due to their splicer system seems very unlikely to pick up the NFL network's 1080i HD feed, but that has very little to do with syndicated programming. Affiliates need HD recording/capturing equipment to be able to air HD syndicated shows that are transmitted several days in advance.


Our NBC affiliate in Cinci has said they plan on carrying our NFL network game in HD, but I would think that should only require a repointing of the satellite. Our CBS affiliate has bought the rights to ESPN's Monday Night Bengal games, but do not carry them in HD due to the 720p feed.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like k2rj said, it's against the "rules" for another network to show another game at the same time slot as the home team's game..



But of course the Browns were in Cincy last Sunday so they were not the home team. And as you note, the prior week when the Browns were home, CBS did air a 1 PM game head-up against them as Fox had the double-header and CBS had other sports programming in the 4PM slot.


I believe the rule is if your local team is home, you only get 2 games UNLESS the network they are on has the double-header that week. That's why last week we got 2 Fox games plus the CBS 1. Had the Browns been on CBS last week, we'd have only gotten 1 game on each network. If your local team is on the road (or playing Monday or Sunday night) you get 3 games as normal. Those weeks of only 2 games drove me to the NFL Sunday Ticket so I can watch 'em all...


CBS's HD limitations of only 3 games per week are in their network broadcast center where they don't have the capability to handle more than 3 HD feeds currently. It's this same limitation that causes half of March Madness to be in SD rather than all sites in their proper HD glory. You'd think CBS, typically an HD leader, would bite the bullet and make the HD investment to get some of their big time properties like the NFL & NCAA in all HD ASAP. I keep hoping at least, but it's been a long wait with no signs of changing soon it seems...


----------



## nosey313

I'm new to this forum, and frankly I can't find any information about this anywhere else so I'm hoping someone can help me. I have Cox Cable in Lakewood as my service and an SA8300HD DVR box. I am having a problem where a couple of shows have not been shown in HD. The last two (first two of the season) episodes of The Wire on HBO have NOT been shown in HD and the season premiere of Stuido 60 on the Sunset Strip on NBC (which royally ticked me off since I've been waiting to watch this show for a year) last night was NOT in HD either. (This one was particularly bad because it was shown letterboxed with the scrunched effect making everyone look like smurfs. I know I can just use the Zoom button on my remote, but that cuts off the sides of the image and negates the whole idea of widescreen HDTV.)


Also, I don't know if this is related or not, but on a few stations, I have seen the message "Loss of Input Signal" flashed on the screen. The worst instance of this happened during the last five minutes of the Amazing Race season premiere. I know Amazing Race isn't in HD, but it was on ABC HD.


The bottom line is I wanted to know if anyone out there had the same problem, either with Cox, another cable/sat company, or OTA. I know enough to figure out that this isn't a box problem, but probably a network or broadcaster issue. Of course the service rep at Cox didn't have any idea what was wrong, but still managed to blame "the networks" anyway. Thanks for any help.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...I am having a problem where a couple of shows have not been shown in HD. The last two (first two of the season) episodes of The Wire on HBO have NOT been shown in HD and the season premiere of Stuido 60 on the Sunset Strip on NBC ... last night was NOT in HD either. ...



From my brief search "The Wire" is not an HD program on HBO. Since you're new I am going to assume you might not know, just because a show is on a HD channel doesn't mean it is going to be in HD (this rule applies to any HD channel).


Now for your Studio 60 issue, this show should have been in HD. This would be most likely caused by your local affiliate. I would recommend calling your local affiliate when you find a show that _should_ be in HD and isn't to let them know they need to turn on their HD feed. Sometimes the affiliate has a manual switching system and their operator forgets to "throw the switch."



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I don't know if this is related or not, but on a few stations, I have seen the message "Loss of Input Signal" flashed on the screen. The worst instance of this happened during the last five minutes of the Amazing Race season premiere. I know Amazing Race isn't in HD, but it was on ABC HD.



Is this a SA8300HD message or a message from your HDTV? Personally I haven't seen this message on my SA8300HD in Cinci, but we probably have vastly different systems. I would call Cox and complain that you are having signal issues on your CBS digital channel.


----------



## nosey313

terryfoster-


Thanks for the reply. As for the "Loss of Input Signal", I've seen it on NBC and another network as well. The supervisor who finally called me back said it might be a sat issue and he's looking into it.


As for The Wire, I could have sworn that the other seaons were in HD, but I guess I'm mistaken. I'll post a response from Cox or the local affiliate about the Studio 60 issue.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...the season premiere of Stuido 60 on the Sunset Strip on NBC (which royally ticked me off since I've been waiting to watch this show for a year) last night was NOT in HD either.



Studio 60 was not in HD OTA last night. TitanTV.com indicated it should have been.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Studio 60 was not in HD OTA last night. TitanTV.com indicated it should have been.




You should have been watching CSI: Miami anyway. Regardless of what you think of the show, it has by far the best HD picture of any taped program on the networks. The colors and clarity last night were fantastic.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should have been watching CSI: Miami anyway. Regardless of what you think of the show, it has by far the best HD picture of any taped program on the networks. The colors and clarity last night were fantastic.



That's been my pick for sometime for best looking show in HD. Lost is also very nice.


Of course my SA 8300 decided to malfunction again and I got a whole 3 minutes of it.










They can't bring those Series 3 TiVos out fast enough for me.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They can't bring those Series 3 TiVos out fast enough for me.



They're already out , if you didn't hear already. I ended up deciding against it because of the $800 price tag along with the pending doom of TWC going to SDV in my market. With you guys switching from Adelphia, I'm guessing either you get new equipment sooner than most or MUCH later than most. Since good money is on new equipment much later, you shouldn't have a problem with SDV for quite some time.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's been my pick for sometime for best looking show in HD. Lost is also very nice.
> 
> 
> Of course my SA 8300 decided to malfunction again and I got a whole 3 minutes of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can't bring those Series 3 TiVos out fast enough for me.



You should ask for a replacement hook. My 8300HD rarely if ever has an issue unless it's a global issue with everyone.


-T


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> You should have been watching CSI: Miami anyway. Regardless of what you think of the show, it has by far the best HD picture of any taped program on the networks. The colors and clarity last night were fantastic.



lefkas-


Agreed. I record most stuff on my DVR to watch later. I HATE commercials!! Sometimes I watch it live, sometimes I don't. It is one of my favorite shows.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Studio 60 was not in HD OTA last night. TitanTV.com indicated it should have been.



Was this a problem with NBC or WKYC? Channel 3 has been known in the past to not push the correct buttons...


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah I was pretty pissed at that. No clue what the issue was but it looked crappy that's for sure! CBS forgot to push the button for a few minutes on that Class show too. This crap shouldn't happen anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should ask for a replacement hook. My 8300HD rarely if ever has an issue unless it's a global issue with everyone.
> 
> 
> -T




This is my third. I picked it up a couple of weeks ago.


I think the problem has something to do with my Maxtor Quickview External hard drive. I can't say exactly what the problem is but when I disconnect my external hard drive I don't have the partial recording problem. What's really weird is the only time it has the recording problem is when I am recording a Network show on a HD channel. No problem recording anything else.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They're already out , if you didn't hear already. I ended up deciding against it because of the $800 price tag along with the pending doom of TWC going to SDV in my market. With you guys switching from Adelphia, I'm guessing either you get new equipment sooner than most or MUCH later than most. Since good money is on new equipment much later, you shouldn't have a problem with SDV for quite some time.



Thanks, looking into it. SDV? I kind of heard of it. Is that what AT&T is offering?


Also cable cards. This box needs two. Are cable cards cards you install in the box or are they just like magnetic strip type cards?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Studio 60 was not in HD OTA last night. TitanTV.com indicated it should have been.



It was not sent in HD. I checked.


----------



## icicle22

Both Law and Order Criminal Intent and SVU are in SD over the digital channels tonight on WKYC.......what's up with that? These shows are definitely HD normally. Is wkyc having issues or is this network related?


----------



## rRooster

I've been through 5 SA 8300/8000's over the past few years and the only thing I've found seems to make them last longer is making sure they gets tons of ventillation.


Here's to hoping TW gets something more reliable w/ a better interface going soon. The fact people are willing to fork over $800 AND STILL pay a monthly fee has got to send a message to them that people are looking for more functionality.


I've of course learned logical thinking isn't always the way they operate.


But hey I still watch browns games and think they might win, probably even less logical thinking...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Studio 60 was not in HD OTA last night. TitanTV.com indicated it should have been.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was not sent in HD. I checked.
Click to expand...


Funny, we got it in HD in Cinci. So there was something wrong with your specific network path?


----------



## Telosian

I would be astonished if Studio 60 spent all that money on acting writing and producing such a good show and did not send it out in High Def. My money is on the "did not throw the switch in the control room, this should not happen" scenario.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

All right, here's the deal. The web site the master control ops use to get timings and such listed all these shows as NOT HD. That site is 99.9% correct. Until this week it was 100% correct.










Last night when L&O came up SD I called in and had them switch anyway, and voila! HD. I'm going to issue a memo today to master and see if I can get NBC to correct the APT site.


----------



## hookbill

I kinda like to get an idea on how crazy my thinking is. Help me out guys.


Series 3 TiVo....90 day warranty (unless you buy extended subscription) 800.00

Monthly fee: 12.50

Benefits: User friendly, reliable, Wish list, Season Pass, all kinds of wonderful like no unknown conflicts. Set up recordings on line. USB can be used for wireless networking. I can use my existing Maxtor External hard drive to add aditional disk space. Series 3 alone has 35 hours HD disk space. Great search features.


Not in stock would have to order and wait on delivery.


Currenty SA 8300


12 bucks a month. Not reliable. Unknown conflicts possible. Terrible interface. Horrible search feature, but hey for the money....really not that bad of a deal.


Free replacement anytime there is a problem. I've replaced 3 times.


I've lived (or put up) with this for two and a half years.


I can't have satellite. What would you do?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I kinda like to get an idea on how crazy my thinking is. Help me out guys.
> 
> 
> Series 3 TiVo....90 day warranty (unless you buy extended subscription) 800.00
> 
> Monthly fee: 12.50
> 
> Benefits: User friendly, reliable, Wish list, Season Pass, all kinds of wonderful like no unknown conflicts. Set up recordings on line. USB can be used for wireless networking. I can use my existing Maxtor External hard drive to add aditional disk space. Series 3 alone has 35 hours HD disk space. Great search features.
> 
> 
> Not in stock would have to order and wait on delivery.
> 
> 
> Currenty SA 8300
> 
> 
> 12 bucks a month. Not reliable. Unknown conflicts possible. Terrible interface. Horrible search feature, but hey for the money....really not that bad of a deal.
> 
> 
> Free replacement anytime there is a problem. I've replaced 3 times.
> 
> 
> I've lived (or put up) with this for two and a half years.
> 
> 
> I can't have satellite. What would you do?




hookbill, I briefly considered the S3, but started reading the posts at www.tivocommunity.org about it, and I'm going to take a wait and see approach.


I really had to say no to the S3 when I discovered the network features have not been enabled on the S3 yet - it's the usual paranoia from the content providers about the HD content being copy protected when it leaves the box. There's no multi-room view or copy-to-PC features yet. "promised" for a future software update.


I was thinking $800 divided by $12 (cable company box fee) is 66 months. That's a long time for breakeven BUT I still have to pay Tivo $12.95/mo for the program guide, so there is no savings anywhere in this scenario.


I tend to care more about HD PQ than DVRing, so I figure I can put that $800 towards a full 1080p plasma with CableCard next year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill, I briefly considered the S3, but started reading the posts at www.tivocommunity.org about it, and I'm going to take a wait and see approach.
> 
> 
> I really had to say no to the S3 when I discovered the network features have not been enabled on the S3 yet - it's the usual paranoia from the content providers about the HD content being copy protected when it leaves the box. There's no multi-room view or copy-to-PC features yet. "promised" for a future software update.




See I watch by DVR all the time. Sometimes I have come come close to running out of disk space even with my Maxtor. Right now I'm not "furious" with the SA 8300, but if it continues to miss programs I'll get that way again.


Geeze, it will cost me 1G to get everything I need. I want it, but I don't know if I need it. I would hope I wouldn't see as many hickups and disk problems as I do with the 8300.


I've got the gun loaded. All I need is put in that cc# to pull the trigger.










I'm still thinking, however.


----------



## paule123

Oh, forgot to mention I think the ESATA port on the S3 is currently disabled as well. But Weaknees will replace the internal drive with a 750GB for a few more hundred dollars, LOL...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention I think the ESATA port on the S3 is currently disabled as well. But Weaknees will replace the internal drive with a 750GB for a few more hundred dollars, LOL...




Heck I forgot to comment on your first post what I wanted to say







. I'm not too much in a hurry to transfer to computer hard drive, so that's not high on my priority list.


The sata drive, however is important. I'll check on that.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The sata drive, however is important. I'll check on that.



It's on their short list of things to enable on an upcoming software upgrade.


The other cost you should consider are the two CableCARDs monthly rental (and installation) also the loss of PPV and sports passes (GamePlan, Full Court, Center Ice, etc).


If it weren't for the SDV (switched digital video that requires two-way communication like PPV and onDemand) I would be all over an S3 because the SA8300HD is adequite, but reboots randomly and doesn't remember to start some recordings again after the reboot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's on their short list of things to enable on an upcoming software upgrade.
> 
> 
> The other cost you should consider are the two CableCARDs monthly rental (and installation) also the loss of PPV and sports passes (GamePlan, Full Court, Center Ice, etc).
> 
> 
> If it weren't for the SDV (switched digital video that requires two-way communication like PPV and onDemand) I would be all over an S3 because the SA8300HD is adequite, but reboots randomly and doesn't remember to start some recordings again after the reboot.



I don't watch ppv, ever. I did this year purchase MLB, but there's enough of it around without my buying that again. To be honest, I hadn't thought about that.


It's just the cost itself stopping me. If it was 500 bucks I'd jump. 800 is just so high, and actually with the service plan it would be 1000.00. (5 year)


----------



## hookbill

Decision has been made. It's just simply to pricey.


I'm going to wait until the price drops, which I believe it will. Thanks for helping me think it out.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should have been watching CSI: Miami anyway. Regardless of what you think of the show, it has by far the best HD picture of any taped program on the networks. The colors and clarity last night were fantastic.



Amen to that! I like especially when they show the HD views of the city at the beginning of each scene.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Syndicated programing is vastly different than a live feed. I will agree that FOX due to their splicer system seems very unlikely to pick up the NFL network's 1080i HD feed, but that has very little to do with syndicated programming. Affiliates need HD recording/capturing equipment to be able to air HD syndicated shows that are transmitted several days in advance.
> 
> 
> Our NBC affiliate in Cinci has said they plan on carrying our NFL network game in HD, but I would think that should only require a repointing of the satellite. Our CBS affiliate has bought the rights to ESPN's Monday Night Bengal games, but do not carry them in HD due to the 720p feed.




It's not an issue of syndicated vs. live, yet an issue of more than one HD downlink, HD cross conversion, production/commercial integration etc... What I was trying to get at is that they only have one HD input into their system. Regardless of live, syndicated, server or other.


The only station doing any switching of HD feeds in town whether from live, HD server/tape, to live studio appears to be WKYC (granted Fox 8 does do local HD news). All they're doing is slaving and HD router to their SD master control switcher. It's my belief that Fox 8 simply is not prepared to take in anything other than Fox network stream or their A-control room in HD.


----------



## Inundated

I'd have to agree, Hookbill, and I have been one of those drooling over the S3.


And though I could justify the cost to myself - if I do go ahead and pull the trigger on a regular HD set (I watch HD stuff down here on the computer almost exclusively now, and almost never go upstairs) - the SDV thing terryfoster mentioned has me spooked.


TWC is a big SDV proponent, from all I've seen, and SDV basically doesn't work with the S3 or pretty much any non-cable company solution from what I've heard.


----------



## Inundated

Answering the "when does WBNX go HD" question, it turns out to be "not very soon OTA, and about a month and change on cable", as a blog uncovers:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/0...s-digital.html


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's my belief that Fox 8 simply is not prepared to take in anything other than Fox network stream or their A-control room in HD.



I wouldn't be surprised.


Assuming FOX 8 doesn't pick up the NFL Network HD feed for that game, I wonder if that feed won't be blacked out? The ESPN games are usually not blacked out when broadcast locally.


Of course, that does us new TWC/ex-Adelphia types no good right now! But, my father just got a big new DLP set, and he has D*, so he can probably watch it there...


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All right, here's the deal. The web site the master control ops use to get timings and such listed all these shows as NOT HD. That site is 99.9% correct. Until this week it was 100% correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night when L&O came up SD I called in and had them switch anyway, and voila! HD. I'm going to issue a memo today to master and see if I can get NBC to correct the APT site.



Recently moved out of the Y'town area and miss WFMJ 21 primarily because WKYC channel 3 out of cleveland seems to always have everything stretched when not airing 16x9 material. Even studio 60, L&O and SVU were stretched SD signals....so I saw SD with letterbox stretched and looking horrible.


Anyway, I am stuck with WKYC as I can't get WFMJ here.....


What you said above about notifying master and getting NBC to correct APT site....will that fix the HD feed to other NBC affiliates? Or should I be calling them complaining to get it right?


Thanks!


----------



## stuart628

in case anyone has the HR20, and is recording anything off of ABC thinking why in the world wont it play right. I spoke to the head engineer at WEWS, the Encoders they are using are giving the HR20 fits anytime something is recorded, or played from the buffer (Live is flawless!) The encoders need a firmware upgrade, he just didnt sound like that was going to be soon, as he said he could not give a time frame...I think the more people call though the sooner it will be


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Recently moved out of the Y'town area and miss WFMJ 21 primarily because WKYC channel 3 out of cleveland seems to always have everything stretched when not airing 16x9 material. Even studio 60, L&O and SVU were stretched SD signals....so I saw SD with letterbox stretched and looking horrible.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I am stuck with WKYC as I can't get WFMJ here.....
> 
> 
> What you said above about notifying master and getting NBC to correct APT site....will that fix the HD feed to other NBC affiliates? Or should I be calling them complaining to get it right?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Actually what NBC did to the APT site we use is only label SD programs now. Before the HD shows were marked HD TV. Now they've flopped and mark the SD shows SD TV. So "before" an operator not seeing HD TV wouldn't throw the switch. Now if it doesn't say anything they have to throw the switch. I can understand why the MCR ops would get confused. Being an ex-master control operator I would never suggest calling and bugging them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually what NBC did to the APT site we use is only label SD programs now. Before the HD shows were marked HD TV. Now they've flopped and mark the SD shows SD TV. So "before" an operator not seeing HD TV wouldn't throw the switch. Now if it doesn't say anything they have to throw the switch. I can understand why the MCR ops would get confused. Being an ex-master control operator I would never suggest calling and bugging them.



OK...so has anyone told WKYC?


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually what NBC did to the APT site we use is only label SD programs now. Before the HD shows were marked HD TV. Now they've flopped and mark the SD shows SD TV. So "before" an operator not seeing HD TV wouldn't throw the switch. Now if it doesn't say anything they have to throw the switch. I can understand why the MCR ops would get confused. Being an ex-master control operator I would never suggest calling and bugging them.



Thanks for the response and that makes perfect sense. While I don't intend to call and bug them, I would like to know that they are aware of this change and are going to get it right from here on out. I would guess that I am not the only one disappointed when I tune in my favorite shows in HD and have to watch SD stretched to HD proportions.


Do I just wait and hope someone else notices this? Or is there an update that was sent to affiliates about this change? Looking forward to watching "kidnapped"

tonight and if it is also in SD I will be disappointed still.....


Thanks.......


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK...so has anyone told WKYC?



That's what I was trying to say with my post. I just couldn't seem to find the right words!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Recently moved out of the Y'town area and miss WFMJ 21 primarily because WKYC channel 3 out of cleveland seems to always have everything stretched when not airing 16x9 material. Even studio 60, L&O and SVU were stretched SD signals....so I saw SD with letterbox stretched and looking horrible.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I am stuck with WKYC as I can't get WFMJ here.....
> 
> 
> What you said above about notifying master and getting NBC to correct APT site....will that fix the HD feed to other NBC affiliates? Or should I be calling them complaining to get it right?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



icicle22, Have you tried getting WKBN-DT OTA? I get it 24/7 here in Parma. WFMJ-DT is about to double their power, so they may be receivable in at least part of Cuyahoga County (especially in the Solon/Moreland Hills area where their coverage map shows these towns inside the coverage area). WYTV, otoh is a lost cause. I can only get 33 when the atmosphere gives them a boost. Too bad since WEWS is the preemption king, followed by WKYC a close second (why do they think anyone would want to watch old Matlock episodes on prime time in 2006 is beyond me).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's what I was trying to say with my post. I just couldn't seem to find the right words!




I just sent them an email and included a link to TVChief21's post.


----------



## JJkizak

I just switched from law & Order on Channel 3 to The Unit on channel 19 due to the stretched SD bulcrap. The dude at the controls has to be sleeping. So I just go to another channel.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just switched from law & Order on Channel 3 to The Unit on channel 19 due to the stretched SD bulcrap. The dude at the controls has to be sleeping. So I just go to another channel.
> 
> 
> JJK



Yeah, it happened with both l&o's last night. Sucks, no dolby 5.1 either!


----------



## Speedskater

Cox - Cleveland just added MTV HD to the High Def section.

Just the channel I wanted added - NOT!


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cox - Cleveland just added MTV HD to the High Def section.
> 
> Just the channel I wanted added - NOT!



MTV HD but no ESPN2?


----------



## HDTD

I'm trying to think, but can't remember if STO aired any road games this season in HD? I know there were the WKYC road games in HD. Wondering if anyone remembers any STO road games?


----------



## HDTD

Watching CSI NY on WOIO, and they come back from a 10:52pm-ish break and the feed is 4x3. I call the station's master control, and the MC operator insist it's coming in in HD. Well, it may be, but it's not 16x9 like it was two minutes earlier.


----------



## cseajs

That is what I saw OTA. The same thing happened last night at the end of Smith the last 15 or so minutes weren't HD.


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cseajs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is what I saw OTA. The same thing happened last night at the end of Smith the last 15 or so minutes weren't HD.



Someone is flipping the switch a little too soon !


----------



## wd8kct

WJW Sees High Ratings for High-Def News
http://hdnews.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0042/t.198.html


----------



## Rijax

I'm confused by the following statement in that article. "_WJW is the sole producer of native HD newscasts in the Cleveland DMA._" The article is dated August 11, 2006, and I know that at that time WKYC was broadcasting their local news in HD. The term "native" may indicate that there is some difference between WKYC's HD and WJW's HD. Anyone know if this is the case, or is the article simply in error. By the way, I watch both newscasts.


----------



## Telosian

Yes, they (CBS this time) messed up "Smith," another great show for the last act of the show! This is SO IRRITATING! What can we do? I assume the engineers from the stations read this forum. Don't they realize people are watching and people care?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, they (CBS this time) messed up "Smith," another great show for the last act of the show! This is SO IRRITATING! What can we do? I assume the engineers from the stations read this forum. Don't they realize people are watching and people care?



Smith is on again this Saturday. I've got my DVR set to record. Hopefully they will show it all in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watching CSI NY on WOIO, and they come back from a 10:52pm-ish break and the feed is 4x3. I call the station's master control, and the MC operator insist it's coming in in HD. Well, it may be, but it's not 16x9 like it was two minutes earlier.



How stupid can these people be. 4:3 is not 16:9 and is not HD. And they want to argue with you and tell you your wrong?


Sounds like they need a few phone calls during the day or emails.


On second thought this is WOIO. Not the brightest bulb in the HD socket.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> See I watch by DVR all the time. Sometimes I have come come close to running out of disk space even with my Maxtor. Right now I'm not "furious" with the SA 8300, but if it continues to miss programs I'll get that way again.
> 
> 
> Geeze, it will cost me 1G to get everything I need. I want it, but I don't know if I need it. I would hope I wouldn't see as many hickups and disk problems as I do with the 8300.
> 
> 
> I've got the gun loaded. All I need is put in that cc# to pull the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still thinking, however.



What type of display do you have? I can't recall but were you the one who watches HD downconverted to SD? Either you or inundated did that.


At any rate, I LOVE DVR'ing and would love nothing better than to have a MUCH better interface and feature set than the lame 8300SD has, yet to dump $800 into that when I have so many other things I want to get, just doesn't make any sense to me. I have a 4 year old Sony CRT HDTV which is fine, but to dump that money into TiVo, plus the $12.95 per month, I'd much rather save and get a 1080p LCoS SXRD! I'll deal with crappy performance and no external drive so that I ensure it works and save my money towards a better TV. Now, if all things are equal and money was no object, then yeah, I'd be buying the TiVo. Unfortunately at least for me, money is definitely an issue, thus it makes no sense to waste $800, plus another $155 per year for the TiVo service. My HDTV doesn't have a cable card option, thus I can't really get rid of the cable box anyway so the $12 per month for the DVR from Time Warner is a sunk cost no matter what I do.


Anyway, that's what I'd do...keep the DVR, save the $800 towards a killer TV or maybe upgrade my projector.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How stupid can these people be. 4:3 is not 16:9 and is not HD. And they want to argue with you and tell you your wrong?
> 
> 
> Sounds like they need a few phone calls during the day or emails.
> 
> 
> On second thought this is WOIO. Not the brightest bulb in the HD socket.




For the MC op...I mean it's ok, it's just a mistake dude, but don't try and insist I'm wrong by proving to me that the last four minutes of the show will air in 4:3, almost a refusal to cut the router back. Now I do feel bad for them, they have to manually hit it everytime where other stations in town are just slaving the master control switcher to the HD router.


You know when they cut from national HD stream back to the local upconverter you see the CBS Eye logo jump from right to center...it never happened in the last break of the show, and from the network "Stay tuned for scenes from the next CSI."


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm confused by the following statement in that article. "_WJW is the sole producer of native HD newscasts in the Cleveland DMA._" The article is dated August 11, 2006, and I know that at that time WKYC was broadcasting their local news in HD. The term "native" may indicate that there is some difference between WKYC's HD and WJW's HD. Anyone know if this is the case, or is the article simply in error. By the way, I watch both newscasts.




Sounds to me as if WJW just fed the reporter with catch phrases such as "Native HD," well if that means they don't upconvert, then they have merely a native studio newscast, because all of the "news" is clearly upconverted. Also looks as if she didn't do her homework and actually check if any other station did HD news in town.


At the very least WKYC field photographers shoot in SD 16x9 and upconvert those pictures, compared to the "Fox 8, HD" wings. Last time I checked WKYC's broadcast was just as "native HD" as Fox 8's.


----------



## paule123

IIRC, WJW's graphics are all HD, whereas WKYC's graphics are still SD overlaid on an HD broadcast. WKYC doesn't make for a clean seamless presentation, IMO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What type of display do you have? I can't recall but were you the one who watches HD downconverted to SD? Either you or inundated did that.



For the record, that was Inundated.










I have a Sony Wega 30" CRT HD set. Which I'm quite happy with.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know when they cut from national HD stream back to the local upconverter you see the CBS Eye logo jump from right to center...it never happened in the last break of the show, and from the network "Stay tuned for scenes from the next CSI."



Speaking about the "eye"....has anyone else noticed that they've gone back to the eye turning to "CBS HDTV" at the start of each break? For some reason they stopped doing that about February. I like it because it's easy for me to focus on that when I'm FF through commercials.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking about the "eye"....has anyone else noticed that they've gone back to the eye turning to "CBS HDTV" at the start of each break? For some reason they stopped doing that about February. I like it because it's easy for me to focus on that when I'm FF through commercials.



The still do that for the beginning of Letterman.


I've been watching most of my CBS from WKBN-DT lately, so if you havn't seen the "CBS HD" rotating logo, the WOIO MC op is asleep at the switch...again!


NO station is perfect in this matter (HD/SD switch-over). I posted over in the Youngstown forum several weeks ago when the last few minutes of a program was in SD. For whatever reason the network was running 3 minutes behind, so it was arounf 11:00 PM. That led me to believe that the switchover was preprogrammed. WKBN Chief replied that the switchover was done manually. The MC op's need to be watching the programs when the hit the switch.


----------



## Michael P 2341

BTW there is no need for MC to keep switching back and forth during the commercials, unless there are locally originated commercials (some, but not all breaks contain LO commercials).


I usualy get to see the tail end of what CBS runs during the local avails ("CBS Cares" public service announcements) on WKBN-DT. The network commercials are upconverted 4x3 with no "VBI noise" at the top of the picture, unlilke most local SD feeds.


I'm watching HDTV downconverted to SD and letterboxed on a 27" Sony. I get to see all the crud (i.e. what I called VBI noise) on the top of the picture. It's a dead giveaway that the broadcast is SD.


----------



## kinglerch

I see something weird on some digital channels, last night it was on Channel 5.1. Watching some broadcasts shows what I can only describe as sawtooth or chainsaw effects, mostly with graphics. Maybe it resembles a huge chroma error or something. A horizontal graphics bar (maybe on the news) looks like it has spikes above/below that are juttering back and forth. From what I can tell, this was only on SD broadcasts.


What is this effect? Does it have a name? Is it an error in the broadcast, or maybe SD material being sent on a HD channel? I don't think it's related to my display.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see something weird on some digital channels, last night it was on Channel 5.1. Watching some broadcasts shows what I can only describe as sawtooth or chainsaw effects, mostly with graphics. Maybe it resembles a huge chroma error or something. A horizontal graphics bar (maybe on the news) looks like it has spikes above/below that are juttering back and forth. From what I can tell, this was only on SD broadcasts.
> 
> 
> What is this effect? Does it have a name? Is it an error in the broadcast, or maybe SD material being sent on a HD channel? I don't think it's related to my display.



I see this effect on HD football games when viewed on my SD set. The yard lines have a jagged appearence when viewed at an angle. There must be too much information when the picture gets downconverted.


If your set is an HD set it could be for a totally different reason. Some people see "rainbows" on DLP sets. Older LCD's don't do well on fast-moving images. There are all kinds of visual distortion that can take place in the digital and HD world that never was a factor in analog TV.


----------



## Michael P 2341

For those of us who can get both the Cleveland and Youngstown market stations that carry Sunday afternoon NFL games here is the situation.


Due to the Browns playing at home WJW will not be able to carry the 2nd game of the FOX double header. Over in Youngstown WKBN has decided to carry the 1 PM Cincinnati @ Pittsburgh game, while WYFX will carry both games of the FOX double header (in SD, of course).


If you are a Steelers fan, the WKBN-DT game will be in HD. The 4:05 game Baltimore at Cleveland on WOIO will be in SD (no surprise).


The FOX games: 1:00 PM Chicago @ Minnesota in HD on WJW and in SD on WYFX

4:00 PM NY Giants @ Seattle - only on WYFX due the the Browns playing at home.


As always the schedules are subject to change. I get this information from JPKirby's excellent site: http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of us who can get both the Cleveland and Youngstown market stations that carry Sunday afternoon NFL games here is the situation.
> 
> 
> Due to the Browns playing at home WJW will not be able to carry the 2nd game of the FOX double header. Over in Youngstown WKBN has decided to carry the 1 PM Cincinnati @ Pittsburgh game, while WYFX will carry both games of the FOX double header (in SD, of course).
> 
> 
> If you are a Steelers fan, the WKBN-DT game will be in HD. The 4:05 game Baltimore at Cleveland on WOIO will be in SD (no surprise).
> 
> 
> The FOX games: 1:00 PM Chicago @ Minnesota in HD on WJW and in SD on WYFX
> 
> 4:00 PM NY Giants @ Seattle - only on WYFX due the the Browns playing at home.
> 
> 
> As always the schedules are subject to change. I get this information from JPKirby's excellent site: http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/



Since both stations are owned by the same company, does anyone know whether the WYFX signal can be switched over to WKBN-DT just for the football game so it can be carried in HD (assuming no CBS game is on simultaneously)? I thought they were doing this for some of the Indians games earlier in the year.


----------



## Andrew K

I would agree with a lot of the comments made here. WOIO, in my opinion, sucks the worst and they need to wake up. I live only 20 miles from their DT transmitter (with a clear view), and I get nothing. Sometimes it's funny to watch their newscast to see their desperate attempts at trying to get ratings, and it's so fake. I would be much happier with a signal I could actually watch. I miss the quality HD programming like CSI because I don't get a constant signal. Congrats to 3, 5, and 8 for HD newscasts or decent power levels.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...I live only 20 miles from [WOIO's] DT transmitter (with a clear view), and I get nothing.



Since WOIO transmits on 10 (VHF) what does your analog channel 8 look like? Are there lots of ghosts? What I'm trying to get at is since (I believe) you're well within the coverage area, you might be having multipath issues with their signal. Check out this map to see WOIO-DT's coverage area.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cox - Cleveland just added MTV HD to the High Def section.
> 
> Just the channel I wanted added - NOT!



I wrote that on Wednesday. Thursday MTV-HD was gone!

Well, I won't miss it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since both stations are owned by the same company, does anyone know whether the WYFX signal can be switched over to WKBN-DT just for the football game so it can be carried in HD (assuming no CBS game is on simultaneously)? I thought they were doing this for some of the Indians games earlier in the year.



You are not the first one to suggest that WKBN-DT swap the HD feed with WYFX.


Outside of contractural issues with CBS and FOX (and cable systems), I can see a big problem for the WKBN-DT master control to try and pull this off. After all football games don't end precisely on time. If they wanted to try this and the Steelers / Bengals game ran past 4:15 then there would be 2 HD programs overlapping (i.e. the end of the Steelers game on CBS and the beginning of the 2nd FOX game).


O.T. comment: Has anyone else notice the folowing improvements to the NFL television coverage for this season:


1.) You now see highlights of any game, regardless of which network has the game (i.e. a CBS halftime report will show a highlight from a FOX game in progress and visa-versa).


2.) Highlights from HD games are in HD during the NBC Sunday Nght Football game.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I was watching WJW-DT 10 o'clock news last night and I believe Rizzo mentioned something about SkyFox "being in the shop" so it could be fitted for an HD camera. Anybody else catch this mention? This would be a nice HD addition for WJW and for the Cleveland/Akron/Canton market. I had heard a while ago that they were planning this - now it sounds like we may be seeing it very soon.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since WOIO transmits on 10 (VHF) what does your analog channel 8 look like? Are there lots of ghosts? What I'm trying to get at is since (I believe) you're well within the coverage area, you might be having multipath issues with their signal. Check out this map to see WOIO-DT's coverage area.



WOIO, being on ch 10 is subject to interference from the analog ch 10 out of London Ontario, CFPL-TV. If you live 20 miles NORTHEAST of the WOIO transmitters, you may be in the natural skip area for CFPL. That station was almost a local station for parts of Ashtabula county, and in the summer when I was a kid I got it many times in Euclid.


I said this before and I'll say it again, WOIO does not belong on ch 10 - it's a very bad frequency for this area. Canada will not shut off analogs for many years after the U.S. shut-off (this makes me wonder how the FCC can sell-off the upper UHF frequencies for non-tv uses if they are still used for TV across the border). WOIO has successfully fought to stay on ch 10, bumping Columbus' WBNS off that channel that they had for decades before WOIO ever existed. I wish Raycom would come to their senses and abandon ch 10. They probably think they are doing CBS a favor by getting them back on VHF in Cleveland, but in reallity they have driven those of us that can to WKBN for our CBS - and I can see the WOIO tower out my back window!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since both stations are owned by the same company, does anyone know whether the WYFX signal can be switched over to WKBN-DT just for the football game so it can be carried in HD (assuming no CBS game is on simultaneously)? I thought they were doing this for some of the Indians games earlier in the year.



WKYC-DT did not make the HD feed available to their OTA partners in other markets. I don't believe they had any way of distributing the HD signal. I thought that I may have heard that they were considering this for the future, though. The problem with the Y-town situation, of course, is that WYFX is low-power analog and WKBN-DT subchannel digital - which means no HD capability. It would be nice if they had the capability to reallocate bandwidth so that they could show WYFX on the subchannel in HD under certain circumstances. Of course, their primary obligation is to CBS, so I am sure that CBS HD programming would always have to have priority. But for the Sunday afternoon Tribe games, when nothing is running in HD on CBS, I think this would be a great move.


If Tom Zocolo, WKBN Engineer, is out there, maybe he can address this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was watching WJW-DT 10 o'clock news last night and I believe Rizzo mentioned something about SkyFox "being in the shop" so it could be fitted for an HD camera. Anybody else catch this mention? This would be a nice HD addition for WJW and for the Cleveland/Akron/Canton market. I had heard a while ago that they were planning this - now it sounds like we may be seeing it very soon.



That would be nice. I wonder what happened with "Ground Fox?" It was suppose to go through some upgrades too but I haven't seen it in months.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That would be nice. I wonder what happened with "Ground Fox?" It was suppose to go through some upgrades too but I haven't seen it in months.



Ground FOX was a joke. It only worked in very limited areas of town. Every time they broadcast from Gound FOX it appeared to me that they were in Tremont. That led me to believe that Ground FOX needed a clear line-of-sight to the Terminal Tower (and not too close to the tower either - they never broadcast from Pubilc Square).


----------



## hookbill

Last night the SA 8300 decided to record only 40 minutes ov Ghost Whisperer. This is one of my wife's favorite shows.


So after much further discuss, debate, investigation pros and cons we decided to take the plune. I just ordered the TiVo Series 3. It should be here by 10/2/06.


From what I can tell there probably won't be any of the VSD problems around here for a few years. I'm banking that the FCC forces them to do something by that time. In any case HD shouldn't be affected in regards to what we are currently getting.


It's a gamble, expensive, but hey don't mess with the wife's shows.










I'll let you know how it all works out.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since WOIO transmits on 10 (VHF) what does your analog channel 8 look like? Are there lots of ghosts? What I'm trying to get at is since (I believe) you're well within the coverage area, you might be having multipath issues with their signal. Check out this map to see WOIO-DT's coverage area.



There isn't much of a multipath issue for me. Channel 8 is very clear where I'm at. It's just that WOIO-DT doesn't have much power. I can get WKYC-DT no problem since their a tad higher power and lower frequency, but WOIO-DT is very flaky. I can't use an outdoor antenna since I live in an apartment, and I think that's the problem. But I don't think that it should be necessary considering that I can get Fox 8 no problem with an indoor. The FCC's website shows that I'm in the coverage area, but I don't trust those estimates. I've never found those to be accurate considering that they seem to overestimate and don't factor in the terrain.


----------



## Telosian

Hookbill, you should have thought of this months ago! Am I right you plan to hook this up to TW cable since you could not get a dish to work? If so, you will be a nice test case for me. My 8300 (with a 250 gig drive) works much more reliably than yours does but I would love to know if you think the actual Tivo is an improvement. I assume the software is better, the interface is better and I also hear Ghost Whisperer looks absofreakinglutely amazing on it!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill, you should have thought of this months ago! Am I right you plan to hook this up to TW cable since you could not get a dish to work? If so, you will be a nice test case for me. My 8300 (with a 250 gig drive) works much more reliably than yours does but I would love to know if you think the actual Tivo is an improvement. I assume the software is better, the interface is better and I also hear Ghost Whisperer looks absofreakinglutely amazing on it!



I can't tell you how happy I am ti be a "test" case.










Perhaps you would like to contribute to the "Hookbill's TiVo Series 3 Test Fund".


All contributions would be accepted and are guaranteed to go directly to pay for thiis piece of metal and circuitry.

















The cable cards won't be here until 10/9. TiVo itself should arrive around Thursday.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill, you should have thought of this months ago!



Uh, months ago? The Tivo S3 (with HD capability) just hit the street about a week ago...


----------



## TLaz

I can't seem to find the answer in this thread. Is WEWS-DT transmitting in Dolby 5.1?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't seem to find the answer in this thread. Is WEWS-DT transmitting in Dolby 5.1?



I believe only WKYC-DT and WJW-DT broadcast in DD 5.1 in our market. These two stations seem to be the technology and innovation leaders in the Cleveland/Akron/Canton market. They also happen to be the only stations in the market to do their local newscasts in HD. That's probably good though - I really do NOT want to see "Action News" in HD!


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't seem to find the answer in this thread. Is WEWS-DT transmitting in Dolby 5.1?



NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wish they did.

I spoke with them months ago and they said that equipment was there waiting to be installed

It has been months


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Wish they did.
> 
> I spoke with them months ago and they said that equipment was there waiting to be installed
> 
> It has been months



I wonder what's taking so long, if the equipment is already on site.


----------



## cseajs

WOIO again tonight, OTA not in HD. Both Cold Case and Without a Trace the complete programs. Whoever is sleeping at the controls at WOIO should wakeup since it's the 3rd time this week.


----------



## paule123

Sunday Night Football (Denver/New England) on WKYC doesn't look good tonight. Compression artifacts with the 50 yard shot, and macroblocking when there's even the slightest bit of motion. Pretty bad HD presentation, IMHO.


It can't be all Weather Minus' fault, I've seen better than this with the subchannel on...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cseajs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO again tonight, OTA not in HD. Both Cold Case and Without a Trace the complete programs. Whoever is sleeping at the controls at WOIO should wakeup since it's the 3rd time this week.



If you are sure the show is supposed to be in HD, call WOIO news hotline at (216) 367-7300 and complain. You might be surprised and 5 to 10 minutes later see your show in HD after they flip the switch.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cseajs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO again tonight, OTA not in HD. Both Cold Case and Without a Trace the complete programs. Whoever is sleeping at the controls at WOIO should wakeup since it's the 3rd time this week.



I believe because both shows are delayed due to the Browns game they are tape delayed. I don't think they can record in HD so the taped delayed shows are SD.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cseajs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO again tonight, OTA not in HD. Both Cold Case and Without a Trace the complete programs. Whoever is sleeping at the controls at WOIO should wakeup since it's the 3rd time this week.



Could be that since WOIO carried a different 4PM game (i.e., the Browns) than what most of the country saw, and assuming the games ended at different times, and AFAIK CBS has only 2 HD feeds to their affilates (and they have to reserve the 2nd feed for the west coast), we get primetime in SD only. This happens a lot during football season, and may not be WOIO's fault.


Besides, the typical WOIO screwup is to get 1 or 2 segments of a program in SD (usually following a local break), rather than messing up the entire evening.


----------



## cseajs

Flatiron, Tlaz, and paule127 thanks for the replies. I didn't even think the Browns game would do that. This is my first football season with HD so, I didn't realize that they couldn't delay the HD feed some way.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sunday Night Football (Denver/New England) on WKYC doesn't look good tonight. Compression artifacts with the 50 yard shot, and macroblocking when there's even the slightest bit of motion. Pretty bad HD presentation, IMHO.
> 
> 
> It can't be all Weather Minus' fault, I've seen better than this with the subchannel on...



You're obviously watching a cable or directv compressed/processed signal. OTA Sunday Night Football was georgeous last night.


----------



## hookbill

You mean to say that a television station cannot record a HD show? I find that hard to believe. I would think the broadcast would go into a computer that could record it digitally, even a DVR if necessary.


I think that WOIO doesn't give a crap about HD like some of the other stations.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sunday Night Football (Denver/New England) on WKYC doesn't look good tonight. Compression artifacts with the 50 yard shot, and macroblocking when there's even the slightest bit of motion. Pretty bad HD presentation, IMHO



I agree. NBC's HD broadcast for Sunday Night Football is not nearly as crisp as it should be. On the other hand, CBS's HD broadcast of College Football (and sometimes NFL) are hands down the best example of HD sports to date.


And just for the record, I am viewing via an OTA antenna with the new 42 1080i Hitachi Plasma.


Go Buckeyes!


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You mean to say that a television station cannot record a HD show? I find that hard to believe. I would think the broadcast would go into a computer that could record it digitally, even a DVR if necessary.
> 
> 
> I think that WOIO doesn't give a crap about HD like some of the other stations.



I'm not aware of any station in our area that can record the raw 1500 megabit network satellite feed. What we record on our DVRs is a very highly compressed 19 megabit datastream. A 1500 megabit datastream would eat hard drives for lunch. My guess is that the equipment to do this is very expensive. I suppose they will all have to bite the bullet though and do it before the analog shutdown in 2009.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're obviously watching a cable or directv compressed/processed signal. OTA Sunday Night Football was georgeous last night.



I noticed this too on HD football OTA this weekend. The picture was great but during zooms (especially the CBS logo zooming at you) it got very blocky. My experience with compression artifacts says these are being significantly compressed, even OTA.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not aware of any station in our area that can record the raw 1500 megabit network satellite feed. What we record on our DVRs is a very highly compressed 19 megabit datastream. A 1500 megabit datastream would eat hard drives for lunch. My guess is that the equipment to do this is very expensive. I suppose they will all have to bite the bullet though and do it before the analog shutdown in 2009.




I know WKYC/STO uses a DDR that can record at 300Mbps compression, they use this for STO replays of games. I believe technically they have the routing power to put the network feed in, but honestly don't know why they'd ever do it.


They also have other DDRs that do 140Mbps, but aren't configured for that setup.


I think they may also have tape sources that can record anywhere from 25-50Mbps.


I'm not sure if there's a commercially available server that will record at 1500Mbps.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Could be that since WOIO carried a different 4PM game (i.e., the Browns) than what most of the country saw, and assuming the games ended at different times, and AFAIK CBS has only 2 HD feeds to their affilates (and they have to reserve the 2nd feed for the west coast), we get primetime in SD only. This happens a lot during football season, and may not be WOIO's fault.
> 
> 
> Besides, the typical WOIO screwup is to get 1 or 2 segments of a program in SD (usually following a local break), rather than messing up the entire evening.



I agree. Since I can get WKBN-DT, I watched Cold Case and Without A Trace on the Youngstown OTA channel. Both were in HD. I flipped over to WOIO when Without A Trace was over, and lo and behold, there was the last ~15 minutes of what I just watched in HD in SD.


Evidenlty the Browns game was the last game on, the announcers said "stay tuned for 60 minutes immediately following this game...you are watching the NFL on CBS." I presumed that the tail-end of the Browns game was being seen nationally. Evidently not, as WKBN did not have CBS in a delay, as they carried the Steelers/Bengals game (in HD I might add) at 1 PM.


Hopefully someone will come up with a more economical way to record broadcast quality HD soon.


----------



## jtscherne

When a game starts at 4:00, it is generally regional only. Gee, I wonder why the whole country wouldn't want to see Baltimore/Cleveland??? 


The late game for the network with the doubleheader starts at 4:15 and the prime time shows will not be delayed.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When a game starts at 4:00, it is generally regional only. Gee, I wonder why the whole country wouldn't want to see Baltimore/Cleveland???
> 
> 
> The late game for the network with the doubleheader starts at 4:15 and the prime time shows will not be delayed.



There still may be a prime-time network delay for the 4:15 games (at least when CBS has the double header). There were 3 FOX 4:15 games yesterday. I was not watching, actually noone in Cleveland was watching (unless you get WKBN-DT/WYFX), we lost the 2nd gme of the FOX doubleheader. Cleveland was the only market w/o a 4:15 game. http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/03-FOX-L.gif 

If any of the 3 4:15 games would run over, all markets getting football at the time (that is everybody except us) would see the tail end of the last game in progress, no matter which game was carried, so that the network would be in sync.


I watched The Simpsons at 8:00 on WJW, I flipped over to 27.2 WYFX and they were in sync with WJW. So perhaps none of the 3 FOX 4:15 games ran overtime. However if one of tem did wouldn't there be a delay on FOX for the evening, or would they just join-in-progress the 7:00 PM program? I think that may have happened last week.


----------



## Andrew K

I just miss having an OTA news station here in Akron. It seems like Cleveland has sucked up everything good from Akron just because I am in that market area. I don't care about Cleveland news!! I live in Akron, and I rarely go to Cleveland anyways. I do applaud the efforts of some stations to cover Akron, but it's not the same as the days when Akron had WAKC or PAX 23 news. Youngstown is about half the size of Akron, yet there are 3 news stations there, only because it is a separate market area. A TV station in Akron could possibly reach more people than an OTA station transmitter placed in Cleveland. A transmitter in Akron could easily reach Akron, Canton, Cleveland, and Youngstown all in one. So I'm wondering why it hasn't been successfully done. Maybe markets aren't a good way to describe our area. Perhaps it would just be best for stations to cover their OTA broadcast regions or the closest TV stations for rural (no OTA signal) areas. Ashtabula county, in my opinion, belongs to either Youngstown or Erie depending on which part of the county you're in. Cleveland's OTAs barely touch that county, yet it's in that market. The idea of markets has greatly shrunk the number of people that the Youngstown stations can reach. If I can get a Youngstown station OTA, which I can, then it should be provided by a local cable or satellite provider. The Cleveland stations in my opinion shouldn't rule all of NE Ohio, especially when you have a news as crappy as channel 19's.


----------



## JJkizak

I liked the Akron news also on 23. The male anchor was clear and concise and no balogny

chit-chat about "Oh my, that was terrible". The other 1 hr news programs on other channels present 8 minutes of news in that 1 hr period. The rest is crap.


JJK


----------



## ZManCartFan

Well, it's the end of an era for me. After seven (mostly) happy years with DirecTV, I finally broke down and ordered cable service today. For me, it truly came down to a financial decision.


I currently pay about $170 per month for internet, phone, and D*. Armstrong Cable, the provider here in Medina, is offering a buy-back program that gives me 2 PVRs (one HD for the included HD Advantage Pack), a 5mb internet pipe, and IP telephone for $89 per month for the next 12 months. After that, it rises to $150.


Sure would be nice if somehow D* could compete with that, but A) they don't offer phone service, and B) I'm not shelling out $500 for ONE PVR in order to get the locals without the antenna. I don't even think I'm going to try to go the route of customer retention this time.


To bring it on topic, does anyone here know what PVR box Armstrong is doling out these days? I'd like to at least drool for the next two and a half weeks until it's installed.


Oh, and I guess I have an out. Armstrong only requires a copy of the final satellite bill, so I'll still keep all of my equipment. And since there are no contracts, I guess I could switch back anytime.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, it's the end of an era for me. After seven (mostly) happy years with DirecTV, I finally broke down and ordered cable service today. For me, it truly came down to a financial decision.
> 
> 
> I currently pay about $170 per month for internet, phone, and D*. Armstrong Cable, the provider here in Medina, is offering a buy-back program that gives me 2 PVRs (one HD for the included HD Advantage Pack), a 5mb internet pipe, and IP telephone for $89 per month for the next 12 months. After that, it rises to $150.
> 
> 
> Sure would be nice if somehow D* could compete with that, but A) they don't offer phone service, and B) I'm not shelling out $500 for ONE PVR in order to get the locals without the antenna. I don't even think I'm going to try to go the route of customer retention this time.
> 
> 
> To bring it on topic, does anyone here know what PVR box Armstrong is doling out these days? I'd like to at least drool for the next two and a half weeks until it's installed.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and I guess I have an out. Armstrong only requires a copy of the final satellite bill, so I'll still keep all of my equipment. And since there are no contracts, I guess I could switch back anytime.



No answer for you but I am curious about the phone. I have Vonage. What do they give you with the phone? Is it unlimited calling? Do they give features like caller ID and vm for free?


Hey, if you don't like the DVR you can always be like me and get the S3 TiVo. Mine is suppose to arrive tomorrow.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, it's the end of an era for me. After seven (mostly) happy years with DirecTV, I finally broke down and ordered cable service today. For me, it truly came down to a financial decision.
> 
> 
> I currently pay about $170 per month for internet, phone, and D*. Armstrong Cable, the provider here in Medina, is offering a buy-back program that gives me 2 PVRs (one HD for the included HD Advantage Pack), a 5mb internet pipe, and IP telephone for $89 per month for the next 12 months. After that, it rises to $150.
> 
> 
> Sure would be nice if somehow D* could compete with that, but A) they don't offer phone service, and B) I'm not shelling out $500 for ONE PVR in order to get the locals without the antenna. I don't even think I'm going to try to go the route of customer retention this time.
> 
> 
> To bring it on topic, does anyone here know what PVR box Armstrong is doling out these days? I'd like to at least drool for the next two and a half weeks until it's installed.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I guess I have an out. Armstrong only requires a copy of the final satellite bill, so I'll still keep all of my equipment. And since there are no contracts, I guess I could switch back anytime.



The box will be a Motorola, i don't know which model number. I think you'll be very happy with Armstrong. Besides being a customer, I've had a very good working relationship with them for almost 20 years. They tend to do things right. Not perfect, but they do a very good job trying to make it perfect.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The box will be a Motorola, i don't know which model number. I think you'll be very happy with Armstrong. Besides being a customer, I've had a very good working relationship with them for almost 20 years. They tend to do things right. Not perfect, but they do a very good job trying to make it perfect.



That's a pretty powerful endorsement coming from a station chief. Thanks for making me feel better already.


Now if they only carried your station, it could be reciprocal!


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No answer for you but I am curious about the phone. I have Vonage. What do they give you with the phone? Is it unlimited calling? Do they give features like caller ID and vm for free?
> 
> 
> Hey, if you don't like the DVR you can always be like me and get the S3 TiVo. Mine is suppose to arrive tomorrow.



The phone service does offer VM, call-forwarding, E911 service, do-not-disturb, and a host of other features that have become standard with most phone services. It runs $34.95 with another Armstrong service. Yes, it's unlimited local and long distance calling. And they were able to keep my same number.


It's a pretty good deal - especially considering that the phone service was running me $70 a month from First Communications for unlimited calling and without all of the extras like VM. My neighbor has had it for months now, and they've been very happy.


----------



## TLaz

Congrats to WEWS-DT for presenting, in HD, Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune. Whether you like the shows or not, we are still one of only a few areas which can receive the shows in HD. Hopefully the WEWS newscasts are not far behind.


----------



## Argee

Sunrocket VOIP is $199 a year. Best deal out there. Unlimited LD, and all the other features the land line TELCOs, caller ID, Voicemail, 3 ways calls, do not disturb, 911 etc. have and you get a second phone number.

Of course you need a broadband connection.


----------



## rluyster

WOAC has been sold to Multicultural Broadcasting.


Check out: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...=Breaking+News


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just miss having an OTA news station here in Akron.



I'm with you there. Akron is kind of unique in that I believe it is the largest city without its own local TV newscast. The issues are history (the market has always been centered on Cleveland), geography (AKron is just TOO close to Cleveland to be its own independent market), and politics (Cleveland would fight tooth-and-nail any attempt to break up its DMA).


I thought the 23 News product produced by WKYC was a pretty solid product - no nonsense, local news only - no American Idol crap or interviews with celebrities.


To bring this back on topic - since WKYC-DT runs a subchannel with weather on it 24 hours a day, why not take a couple of half hour blocks (say 7:00 and 10:30) and replace the weather with the WKYC-produced Akron/Canton 23 Newscast?


----------



## rRooster

Although there are tons of problems with the local news on around here I do have to say one thing. I have a friend who lives in new york city and says they just recently got ONE local news station that broadcasts their news in HD . Soon cleveland will have THREE!



at least the city is moving forward with the technology!! Of course I want ALL my channels to be in HD.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...To bring this back on topic - since WKYC-DT runs a subchannel with weather on it 24 hours a day, why not take a couple of half hour blocks (say 7:00 and 10:30) and replace the weather with the WKYC-produced Akron/Canton 23 Newscast?



I like that idea. I would agree that WKYC's Akron news on Pax 23 was very nice. I had never thought of that, but I wonder why WKYC hasn't thought of that either. After all, Time Warner uses their community channel to air weather plus along with the now "cable only" Akron news. The reason that the news was kicked off the air was because Pax had done some changes when they converted the network to "I", and one of their decisions was to get rid of almost all local programming (very bad choice in my opinion). Maybe this would be a good suggestion for WKYC, unless there is some pointless stipulation that ruins everything like always. This would be good for us who rely on OTA HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOAC has been sold to Multicultural Broadcasting.
> 
> 
> Check out: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...=Breaking+News



Great! WOAC goes from being a shopping channel to a foreign language channel.


----------



## hookbill

I can't record them but I can see the HD channels without a cable card. I ran a scan channels and I suppose like a qam tuner it found all these channels that I couldn't see.


I've got all the network HD channels accept FOX. It didn't see an 8.1. But I suppose its somewhere else.


Anybody with TW and QAM tuner no where FOX is?


Oh and cable card installation is next week. I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although there are tons of problems with the local news on around here I do have to say one thing. I have a friend who lives in new york city and says they just recently got ONE local news station that broadcasts their news in HD . Soon cleveland will have THREE!
> 
> 
> 
> at least the city is moving forward with the technology!! Of course I want ALL my channels to be in HD.



News in HD is OK. But I'd much rather see the following:


1. More than WKYC-DT and WJW-DT broadcasting in DD 5.1. Cleveland is the largest market in the country that has only two DTs broadcasting in DD 5.1.


2. A PBS HD OTA signal that more than 1% of the market can receive. We are still waiting for WEAO-DT to resolve their money and equipment issues and WVIZ-DT to resolve their tower issues.


3. The two full power analog stragglers putting up digital signals. It looks like this will be reduced to one sometime next year with WBNX finally getting their digital stick up. I suspect that WVPX is just playing the waiting game and will flash-cut to digital on the analog shutdown date to save money.


4. WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT move to better channel assignments. I know WKYC-DT is getting 17 after analog shut down - this can't happen fast enough for me. Unfortunately, WOIO-DT chose to stay on 10 instead of moving back to 19, which would have been a much better assignment.


Just my rant for the evening! Thanks for indulging me!


----------



## hookbill

You guys with the QAM tuners. Help me. I can't find WJW FOX 8.1. My scan doesn't come up with 8.1 but it came up with every other HD channel including WVIZ. Is it encoded and that's why I don't get it? I here you guys talking about this station broadcasting here and there.


Help a non QAM person out.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys with the QAM tuners. Help me. I can't find WJW FOX 8.1. My scan doesn't come up with 8.1 but it came up with every other HD channel including WVIZ. Is it encoded and that's why I don't get it? I here you guys talking about this station broadcasting here and there.
> 
> 
> Help a non QAM person out.



I had to do multiple scans to get all the channels on Adelphia/TWC using an OnAir USB tuner. (I have WOW - no QAM, but tried the TWC scan at the in-law's).


WJW-DT was not present in the first scan, but showed as channel 105-1 on the second. The rest of the stations showed up with their analog station number, e.g. WKYC-DT was 3-1, WOIO was 19-1, etc.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys with the QAM tuners. Help me. I can't find WJW FOX 8.1. My scan doesn't come up with 8.1 but it came up with every other HD channel including WVIZ. Is it encoded and that's why I don't get it? I here you guys talking about this station broadcasting here and there.
> 
> 
> Help a non QAM person out.



It seems to me it showed up at some funky location... I'll have to check it when I go home for lunch (If my memory doesn't get corrupted!)


OOps.. looks like asjan beat me to it... 105-1 that looks familiar!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had to do multiple scans to get all the channels on Adelphia/TWC using an OnAir USB tuner. (I have WOW - no QAM, but tried the TWC scan at the in-law's).
> 
> 
> WJW-DT was not present in the first scan, but showed as channel 105-1 on the second. The rest of the stations showed up with their analog station number, e.g. WKYC-DT was 3-1, WOIO was 19-1, etc.



I'll check it out!

Thanks


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys with the QAM tuners. Help me. I can't find WJW FOX 8.1. My scan doesn't come up with 8.1 but it came up with every other HD channel including WVIZ. Is it encoded and that's why I don't get it? I here you guys talking about this station broadcasting here and there.
> 
> 
> Help a non QAM person out.




105-5 ABC HD

105-8 FOX HD


on my LG QAM tuner.


----------



## hookbill

My scanner brings in up to 102.9 then skips to 107.










Well, I only have to wait until Wednesday for my cards. Which reminds me, it's time to call TW and see if I can push the date up further.


----------



## Andrew K

My cousin told me that he just bought an HD TV and he uses QAM, but I've never heard of that. I noticed that it is brought up in this thread. Can anyone explain this to me, and how would I get hooked up with something like this. Is it expensive for just the locals? He told me that these stations aren't blocked. My TV is a Phillips 26" HD with built-in ATSC digital tuner.


----------



## stuart628

 http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/...ExpertiseCode= 


Anyone who has a HR20, please go to this website and sign up, this is to get WEWS to do something about the problem with their HD channel on Directv, I am working very hard to get them to realize that I am serious, and will not accept a when we get around to doing the firmware upgrade attitude, thanks

James


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My cousin told me that he just bought an HD TV and he uses QAM, but I've never heard of that. I noticed that it is brought up in this thread. Can anyone explain this to me, and how would I get hooked up with something like this. Is it expensive for just the locals? He told me that these stations aren't blocked. My TV is a Phillips 26" HD with built-in ATSC digital tuner.



QAM is a format used by cable companies to transmit digital TV. Carriers generally leave the local stations and maybe one or two others unencrypted or "in the clear" so TVs, set-top boxes, or computer cards with QAM tuners can pick them up. Usually the cable company CSR reps will not be any help figuring out which channels you would get. Your best bet is to search this forum for someone in your area with the same cable service and/or pick up a QAM tuner to test on your own.


----------



## terryfoster

If you missed this last night catch a rerun sometime today as WKYC's own Investigative Reporter Carl Monday was featured on the Daily Show.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_articl...?storyid=57398


----------



## Pucky

There is a 2x2 ad on page A8 of the PD today from Time Warner that says, in part:


"The agreements with WJW TV 8-FOX Cleveland and WJW-HD (where available) are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carraige in the near future."


I thought local affiliates were "must-carry"...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is a 2x2 ad on page A8 of the PD today from Time Warner that says, in part:
> 
> 
> "The agreements with WJW TV 8-FOX Cleveland and WJW-HD (where available) are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carraige in the near future."
> 
> 
> I thought local affiliates were "must-carry"...



WTF. With playoffs and World Series coming around. You gotta be kidding.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought local affiliates were "must-carry"...



Local affiliates generally only invoke must carry laws when the cable provider doesn't want to carry the signal. Most affiliates require the cable provider to pay to retransmit their signal since the affiliate knows they have the stronger bargaining position because cable subscribers demand that all their locals be carried on cable.


The strange part about this is WJW is an O&O station, not what I would call an affiliate. So either this fuss will be all for nothing OR it will be very long and drawn out.


Our local former UPN station in Cincinnati (from what I understand) fought with TWC to get carriage and finally resorted to becoming a must carry station.


I had something similar happen in Kalamazoo where the affiliate was requiring the cable provider to carry their weather station if they wanted to carry the main program (this is back before digital broadcast). The cable company lost rights to carry the signal right in time for the Superbowl and had to suffer through much customer dissatisfaction.


----------



## hookbill

Well since I have an S3 TiVo I can always hook up an antenna now and get the signal that way, if necessary.


I've already sent emails to TW, Fox, and Ohio Media Watch on this.


----------



## DaMavs

Anyone else have any problems with 19-1 last night? Went to the Tribe game and came home to discover both HD-Tivos had only about 20 minutes of Survivor recorded due to pixellation & signal breakup. Received using OTA. CSI was similarly unwatchable. Wife was not pleased at losing Survivor.


I'm guessing since 19-1 is the worst signal at my house (mid 60s strength) right now that the rain rolling through last night dinged the signal enough we got the breakups, but figured I'd ask if others had issues as well. When I flipped by 19-1 this morning on my TV's internal ATSC tuner it was also showing breakup issues. Anyone else having problems with 19-1 OTA? Or is time to tweek the antenna a little to see if I can find a sweeter spot to land both 19-1 and 5-1 w/o breakups?


At least 3-1 recorded fine in the same time slots as "My Name is Earl" & "The Office" recorded flawlessly. Didn't really expect to have "rain fade" with OTA, but I guess that's just a digital fact of life...


----------



## HD MM

No breakups on CBS last night for me.


CSI was stunning as always in HD!


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No breakups on CBS last night for me.
> 
> 
> CSI was stunning as always in HD!



Same here, I had to find the right spot for my indoor antenna, and no problems with the signal or picture. I made an effort to watch CSI because it always has such good HD. I noticed that the HD for The Office on NBC seemed especially nice last night.


----------



## Andrew K

What kind of hook-up do you need from the cable company in order to get the QAM unencrypted channels, and what is usually a price for this?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of hook-up do you need from the cable company in order to get the QAM unencrypted channels, and what is usually a price for this?



QAM is a type of modulation cable providers use mostly to send ATSC signals across your cable system. All you need is cable and a QAM demodulating ATSC tuner and you're in business. The usual price is whatever the cost of regular cable is, but you might be able to subscribe a package as low as lifeline/basic cable as long as the "channels" your cable company sends digitally aren't filtered out.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of hook-up do you need from the cable company in order to get the QAM unencrypted channels, and what is usually a price for this?



Don't forget...many TV sets now have QAM tuners built into them along with NTSC and ATSC tuners...so all you have to do is connect your cable system to them and have the set scan for digital channels. There are also set-top boxes that you connect your cable to and then to your TV that have QAM, ATSC and NTSC tuners.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't forget...many TV sets now have QAM tuners built into them along with NTSC and ATSC tuners...so all you have to do is connect your cable system to them and have the set scan for digital channels. There are also set-top boxes that you connect your cable to and then to your TV that have QAM, ATSC and NTSC tuners.



You need a cable card for digital channels. The only ones that come through without a cable card (for TW) are the music channels and HD locals.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else have any problems with 19-1 last night? Went to the Tribe game and came home to discover both HD-Tivos had only about 20 minutes of Survivor recorded due to pixellation & signal breakup. Received using OTA. CSI was similarly unwatchable. Wife was not pleased at losing Survivor.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing since 19-1 is the worst signal at my house (mid 60s strength) right now that the rain rolling through last night dinged the signal enough we got the breakups, but figured I'd ask if others had issues as well. When I flipped by 19-1 this morning on my TV's internal ATSC tuner it was also showing breakup issues. Anyone else having problems with 19-1 OTA? Or is time to tweek the antenna a little to see if I can find a sweeter spot to land both 19-1 and 5-1 w/o breakups?
> 
> 
> At least 3-1 recorded fine in the same time slots as "My Name is Earl" & "The Office" recorded flawlessly. Didn't really expect to have "rain fade" with OTA, but I guess that's just a digital fact of life...



While I can't comment on 19-1 since I was not watching that channel last night, I can comment on the atmospheric condition. I was able to watch the following distant digital channels : WPXI 11-1 & 11-2 (Pittsburgh's Weather Plus), WPMY 22-1 & 22-2 (the Tube), WYTV 33-1 & 33-2 (My Y-TV), WFMJ 21-1 & 21-2 (the CW),

WNEO 45-1, 45-2 & 45-3 (the Alliance/Youngstown feed of our ch 49).


Also received, but not included in the list because I get this one 24/7: WKBN 27-1 & 27-2.


19-1, being on rf ch 10 probably received interference from the analog ch 10's CFPL-TV in London, Ontario and/or WBNS-TV in Columbus (depending on where you are located in N.E. Ohio).


A few pages back you will see my rant about Raycom's decision to keep WOIO on rf ch 10 after the transition period ends.


If you want CBS try to get WKBN-DT out of Youngstown. They have the largest coverage area of any dightal TV station in N.E. Ohio, and there are no co-channel analogs on their rf channel (41) to interfere. The closest digital ch 41 is in Detroit, however since they are in Yongstown the spacing is far enough apart not to be an issue for their market area.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Hey DaMavs, I see you are in Bainbridge. You should be albe to get ALL the Youngstown stations like they were your locals!


I"m in Parma and get WKBN-DT 24/7 using a Radio Shack cat 15-2160 UHF antenna aimed at Yongstown. I get WFMJ-TV 21 analog all the time too (sometimes snowy but usually watchable). They are about to increase their power on their digital signal any day now,I'm hoping I can add 21-1 & 21-2 to my 24/7 list. The weakest Youngstown stationis WYTV-33. I bet you would have better luck getting WYTV 24/7 than I do. I KNOW you'll get WKBN-DT for sure (unless you are in a deep valley with tons of trees).


Try scanning these rf channels: 20, 36 & 41.


----------



## OhPlasma

Can anyone tell me if shows like csi (cbs) and lost (abc) should be coming through in true 5.1. My receiver is telling me that they are 2.0? What do I do?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhPlasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if shows like csi (cbs) and lost (abc) should be coming through in true 5.1. My receiver is telling me that they are 2.0? What do I do?



Call the local stations. Neither WEWS or WOIO pass 5.1 to OTA or cable even though the network provides the signal.


----------



## OhPlasma

Are you sure? Why would this be the case? I was on the phone with TWC last night trying to figure out if it was my components or them. They had no idea of this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhPlasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if shows like csi (cbs) and lost (abc) should be coming through in true 5.1. My receiver is telling me that they are 2.0? What do I do?



The only stations in the area as of right now that carry Dolby 5.1 are WJW, and WKYC. I've heard something about WEWS has the equipment but hasn't got it set up.


WOIO will probably broadcast in Dolby 5.1 as soon as hell freezes over.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhPlasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you sure? Why would this be the case? I was on the phone with TWC last night trying to figure out if it was my components or them. They had no idea of this.



I'm not a station engineer, however you would think that they could just pass the data stream they receive from the network. It probably has something to do with local insertion between the network shows and during commercial breaks. FOX probably has the best solution (the "splicer") to deal with local/network switching.


Be careful what you ask for. It wasn't too long ago I saw posts where commercial breaks crashed DVR's. Perhaps in the early days the stations did pass on the data directly from the network. I do recall seeing recordings stop on DVR's, loss of audio and/or loud noises when the stations switched over from network to local. There were reports here that even one of the stations that has 5.1 (WKYC) had some strange anamolies coming out the rear speakers during Indians games.


----------



## OhPlasma

So there is no way to get CSI and Lost in 5.1 then. Thanks for the post backs.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhPlasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So there is no way to get CSI and Lost in 5.1 then. Thanks for the post backs.



The Youngstown CBS station, WKBN-DT, which can be received by many, in areas of Akron, Canton and Cleveland, does transmit in Dolby 5.1 audio.


----------



## OhPlasma

Does anyone know if TWC, Cleveland is going to be adding any new HD channels any time soon? I heard that MTV is in HD (cox).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OhPlasma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if TWC, Cleveland is going to be adding any new HD channels any time soon? I heard that MTV is in HD (cox).



According to handsworth, who is always on the money and posts rarely, the next addition in hd for TW is Universal.


----------



## Tom in OH

Remember a few months ago we talked about the CW showing up in HD on channel 30 (ota)? Is there any news on this? I supposed this means the premiere of Veronica Mars won't be in HD...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Remember a few months ago we talked about the CW showing up in HD on channel 30 (ota)? Is there any news on this? I supposed this means the premiere of Veronica Mars won't be in HD...



Last word on this was that they were going to be digital for cable and satellite by November. OTA wouldn't be until the Spring.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not a station engineer, however you would think that they could just pass the data stream they receive from the network.



Non-Fox affiliates are required to purchase a DD5.1 encoder if they wish to broadcast DD5.1. At least that was the case our our ABC affiliate.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last word on this was that they were going to be digital for cable and satellite by November. OTA wouldn't be until the Spring.



Hook,

That's good news. Thx for the info.

Tom


----------



## HD MM

Can anyone help me out? I live in Lyndhurst (near Mayfield) and experienced pretty bad breakups on WJW Fox 8.1 and WOIO 19.1 yesterday.


I would like to try and receive WKBN-DT OTA (Youngstown CBS). What is that channel number?


Also, does Fox broadcast out of Youngstown? What channel number are they?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Non-Fox affiliates are required to purchase a DD5.1 encoder if they wish to broadcast DD5.1. At least that was the case our our ABC affiliate.



As I understand it, Dolby has a monopoly on the encoders and they are expensive. If you don't have the encoder then your only option is two channel stereo.


----------



## snagy

i think you are talking about 27-1 and 27-2 from younstown. I live near bainbridge and get a better signal from them myself. As a side note, i installed the new H20 from directv with the better LC OTA tuner. it is better than my old DTC210, but the H20 does not detect analong stations at all. Directv says, they disabled that feature.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me out? I live in Lyndhurst (near Mayfield) and experienced pretty bad breakups on WJW Fox 8.1 and WOIO 19.1 yesterday.
> 
> 
> I would like to try and receive WKBN-DT OTA (Youngstown CBS). What is that channel number?
> 
> 
> Also, does Fox broadcast out of Youngstown? What channel number are they?



WKBN-DT(27.1) is on channel 41. There is a Youngstown HDTV thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7&goto=newpost


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me out? I live in Lyndhurst (near Mayfield) and experienced pretty bad breakups on WJW Fox 8.1 and WOIO 19.1 yesterday.
> 
> 
> I would like to try and receive WKBN-DT OTA (Youngstown CBS). What is that channel number?
> 
> 
> Also, does Fox broadcast out of Youngstown? What channel number are they?



If you want to watch WKBN-DT OTA, then check out your reception on their analog. I think it's a good indicator whether or not you'll get their DT-41. I live in Akron, and I don't get any picture on their analog 27 because of the terrain, but I get somewhat of a blip on the DT OTA signal that isn't enough to lock in. I'm assuming that if you can get anything from their analog, then you should be able to get their digital.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You need a cable card for digital channels. The only ones that come through without a cable card (for TW) are the music channels and HD locals.



You need a CableCard for _encrypted_ digital channels. Any digital (QAM) channels that are sent in the clear can be picked up by a DCR set without a CableCard inserted.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you want to watch WKBN-DT OTA, then check out your reception on their analog. I think it's a good indicator whether or not you'll get their DT-41. I live in Akron, and I don't get any picture on their analog 27 because of the terrain, but I get somewhat of a blip on the DT OTA signal that isn't enough to lock in. I'm assuming that if you can get anything from their analog, then you should be able to get their digital.



Not necessarily true. Due to maximization, a digital coverage area can be larger than the analog coverage area. In my case 147kW replicated my analog coverage area, but I'll be at 460 kW in a short time. WKBN was originally allocated 50kW, now they're close to 800kW.


----------



## wd8kct

Weather Now on WOIO-DT 19-2 was up just before noon today...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you want to watch WKBN-DT OTA, then check out your reception on their analog. I think it's a good indicator whether or not you'll get their DT-41. I live in Akron, and I don't get any picture on their analog 27 because of the terrain, but I get somewhat of a blip on the DT OTA signal that isn't enough to lock in. I'm assuming that if you can get anything from their analog, then you should be able to get their digital.



My expreirnce with WKBN-DT backs up TV21CHIEF's posting. I get WKBN-DT (rf 41) 24/7, while the analog 27 is marginal. Sometimes it comes in well, but usually it's too snowy to watch, while the digital signal is viewable 99.44% of the time, while for WFMJ-TV analog 21 is stronger than 27, while their digital signal only comes in when the atmosphere gives it a boost.


I'm looking forward to WFMJ-DT's power boost. It's due any day now.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i think you are talking about 27-1 and 27-2 from younstown. I live near bainbridge and get a better signal from them myself. As a side note, i installed the new H20 from directv with the better LC OTA tuner. it is better than my old DTC210, but the H20 does not detect analong stations at all. Directv says, they disabled that feature.



The other day I posted a mesage here telling "DaMavs" to try the Youngstown stations. He's from Bainbridge too. The coverage maps off the FCC site puts southern Geauga County inside the circle for all 3 IIRC - WKBN and WFMJ for sure.


snagy, do you get WYTV? If so how well? I wish they would up their power too. We need an alternate ABC for those time when WEWS goes pre-emption crazy (prime-time Matlock anyone?)


----------



## Andrew K

Here in Akron, I've been playing around with my antenna for a while, and I can say that the only Youngstown channel that I can get 24/7 is 21 analog (except during the recent DT construction there). I don't understand why this would be the case, and I cannot get WKBN-DT when I'm well within their coverage map. Any ideas why this could be? I can get a blip of signal that isn't enough to lock onto. I've tried many antenna locations. I use a silver sensor with amplifier. I would like to watch WKBN-DT, but an outdoor antenna is out of the question.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Amplifiers will only hinder your attempts to get the Youngstown digital stations.


I have a Silver Sensor, it works fine for the local stations but did not do well getting the Youngstown stations. While I did get WKBN-DT on occasion with the "SS", I was not getting it 24/7 like I do now with my Radio Shack 15-2160 on the roof.


The reason indoor antennas don't work well on the distant channels is because the walls attunuate the signal. If you have aluminum siding indoor antenna are even more of a pain. If you happen to have a window facing the direction of the Youngstown stations, aim the SS out the window. That helps immensely. The higher up you can get the antenna will help too. I had my SS sitting on a stack of cardboard boxes to get it higher.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My expreirnce with WKBN-DT backs up TV21CHIEF's posting. I get WKBN-DT (rf 41) 24/7, while the analog 27 is marginal. Sometimes it comes in well, but usually it's too snowy to watch, while the digital signal is viewable 99.44% of the time, while for WFMJ-TV analog 21 is stronger than 27, while their digital signal only comes in when the atmosphere gives it a boost.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to WFMJ-DT's power boost. It's due any day now.



Actually I'm on the new antenna now and 21 is back up to full power. Digital is on the top now too but I can't power up until I clear the medical notification window "on or after October 4th". I'd really like to know if my analog is the way it was and curious if 200 feet in height makes a difference on digital.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I'm on the new antenna now and 21 is back up to full power. Digital is on the top now too but I can't power up until I clear the medical notification window "on or after October 4th". I'd really like to know if my analog is the way it was and curious if 200 feet in height makes a difference on digital.



There was a period of a couple weeks where I couldn't get analog 21 here in Akron, but I can now get it just the same as I once could (even the same antenna placement). I couldn't get anything from digital 20. I'll let you know how the digital comes in here when it's up, but I doubt that I'll get it because I can't get WKBN-DT. It's funny that I can get analog 21 no problem but no Youngstown digitals.


----------



## toadman50




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, it's the end of an era for me. After seven (mostly) happy years with DirecTV, I finally broke down and ordered cable service today. For me, it truly came down to a financial decision.
> 
> 
> I currently pay about $170 per month for internet, phone, and D*. Armstrong Cable, the provider here in Medina, is offering a buy-back program that gives me 2 PVRs (one HD for the included HD Advantage Pack), a 5mb internet pipe, and IP telephone for $89 per month for the next 12 months. After that, it rises to $150.
> 
> 
> Sure would be nice if somehow D* could compete with that, but A) they don't offer phone service, and B) I'm not shelling out $500 for ONE PVR in order to get the locals without the antenna. I don't even think I'm going to try to go the route of customer retention this time.
> 
> 
> To bring it on topic, does anyone here know what PVR box Armstrong is doling out these days? I'd like to at least drool for the next two and a half weeks until it's installed.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I guess I have an out. Armstrong only requires a copy of the final satellite bill, so I'll still keep all of my equipment. And since there are no contracts, I guess I could switch back anytime.



I have had Armstrong for a year and a half now with their HD PVR-


The current box is a 6412 running their own software (I do believe it is the microsoft one). They tend to upgrade the software about once a month, and it causes goofy issues like rewind button becoming slow or when you hit the stop button it will take you back to the beginning. It is OK for the price, but won't hold a candle to a Tivo, etc. I have been through 2 already, both became unresponsive. Armstrong is very quick about replacing them (2 days) and they will credit your account for the time out. The other very sucky thing is that you don't have the 30 second skip foward. I tried everything in this forum including buying a new remote that I could program with the 30 second skip forward code, it is software disabled by Armstrong


Armstrong offers two HD PVR boxes the 6412 and a predecesor, which I do believe is the 6208. You want the 6412 since it has 2 tuners, so you can tape 2 HD programs at the same time and watch a prerecorded HD at the same time.


Armstrong HD is great. It is the same channel lineup that their website says. Pay the extra 3 dollars to get the HDNet and HDNet Movies. I have a Samsung DLP and it looks great. The TNT HD also looks good.

If you have a built in HD tuner on your TV, they do simulcast the HD channels in the 100's, like 106-1 is channel 3 and 106-2 is channel 5, etc. Some of their digital advantage channels also come in there.


My biggest disapointment was the analog channels on the 50" screen, it looks very pixelated, then someone at Armstrong answered my prayers. They started broadcasting their basic cable channels in digital (they will show up as the same number, 11 for ESPN, but now it is pulling it from a digital channel. It looks X 1000 better. You still get analog channels for the rest of the TV's (like my kitchen TV, I don't want a box).


Their Indemand is OK. I had it for a little bit with HBO and that was cool, but their basic offerings are "hum".


You will absolutely love Zoom 500. It is very, very good. Ping times usually around 20-30ms which is almost unheard of and most of my speed tests run at 590kbps (very close to 5mb limit). It is always up.


I don't have their phone service, I chose to bring my own voip from viatalk. They do have local numbers or you can port your local number. I didn't have a local number, so they gave me one and it turned out to match Alltel's cell phone exchange 330-441-xxxx . I pay 199 a year for the service and it works out well.


You will like Armstrong, I was happy with the change (came from dish network). The customer service is good, the price is fair (I pay 107 a month - Digital advantage, HD advantage, and Zoom 500)

The only thing you won't like is the moto box.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me out? I live in Lyndhurst (near Mayfield) and experienced pretty bad breakups on WJW Fox 8.1 and WOIO 19.1 yesterday.
> 
> 
> I would like to try and receive WKBN-DT OTA (Youngstown CBS). What is that channel number?
> 
> 
> Also, does Fox broadcast out of Youngstown? What channel number are they?



Analog is a low-power 62 that you can't get outside of the city limits of Y-town. They also broadcast on subchannel 2 of WKBN.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toadman50* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You will like Armstrong, I was happy with the change (came from dish network). The customer service is good, the price is fair (I pay 107 a month - Digital advantage, HD advantage, and Zoom 500)
> 
> The only thing you won't like is the moto box.



Thank you for the great response. I really appreciate it. I just hope that since I've never used a DVR before I won't be as disappointed in the box as you say. I did get a brief chance to play with one last weekend at a friend's house, and I thought it looked pretty cool. and the VOD stuff looked promising. How often do they update it? And do they offer any HD VOD?


And in case anybody else cares, I can't agree with you more about Zoom 500. I've been a customer for the internet pipe for a little over a year now, and it has been absolutely rock solid. (Knock on wood) I can't recall it ever going down, and it is more than fast. It's amazing that sometimes companies actually still do deliver what they sell you.


----------



## toadman50




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you for the great response. I really appreciate it. I just hope that since I've never used a DVR before I won't be as disappointed in the box as you say. I did get a brief chance to play with one last weekend at a friend's house, and I thought it looked pretty cool. and the VOD stuff looked promising. How often do they update it? And do they offer any HD VOD?
> 
> 
> And in case anybody else cares, I can't agree with you more about Zoom 500. I've been a customer for the internet pipe for a little over a year now, and it has been absolutely rock solid. (Knock on wood) I can't recall it ever going down, and it is more than fast. It's amazing that sometimes companies actually still do deliver what they sell you.



6412 -

They update it sporadically. It usually will happen at night around 2 - 3 AM and it will show a strange display on the front of the box like UpDaTe (looks warez ish) It lasts about 10-15 minutes. I can usually tell when they update it because it will become more responsive in something but it will loose something else. Case in point, they had a problem six months ago with the PVR's accidentally saying they were full, when you delete a :30 minute program, it would go back to saying 10% full. It didn't make sense. They fixed it, but then when you hit stop while watching a prerecorded program, it would go back to the beginning (they fixed that too). I always had the feeling that they fixed one thing and accidentally caused something else to go bad. During that time, they did send out a letter apologizing for the issues and gave everyone with the PVR's a $10 credit, that says alot. Past 3 months have been stable with the box.

I did come from having a dish network PVR and loved it compared to the motorola box, but it too was my first. Others will respond that the Dish Network PVR's are crap compared to the Tivo's. I think you will be very happy with the PVR if it is your first (kinda like you turn 16 and that Escort really is cool!!)

The moto box does have some nice features like allowing you to schedule to record only first run episodes and it will grab the program by name, regardless of time or channel. Also you will find out that it will only hold about 10 hours of HD content compared to 100 hours of standard def, but you can have a combo of both and will realize that it is worth having the small space just to get the good HD content.


- In Demand - It is only standard definition and good quality (first two weeks it came out it was very pixelated, but it was growing pains). Most of the stuff is filler (movie trailers, CNN footage, etc). They used to have boomerang on demand which my Daughter loved since she could watch scoobie doo, but they killed it. It is disappointing. I did have HBO for about a year and did have the indemand portion as well, and that was cool. There was a good amount of movie selections. You can actually look at them, all of them, but when you click on them, it will tell you "subscription required".


The only other thing that you will love is the Armstrong ads that play. They have a nice musical ad trying to keep people from switching from cable to satellite with people crying that "when it snows or rains, my signal goes out" "I signed a contract, oh no". It is a bit disceptful since I have seen a couple of times digital "noise" on their streams during bad weather and I have used dish network system in some pretty nasty weather and it still worked.


----------



## rlb

Is anyone getting the MPEG4 digital/HD locals off D* yet? If so, by any chance is DD available on CBS and ABC? I'm really not expecting a "yes" answer; but thought I would ask anyway?


I'm sure I get a better picture with an OTA antenna feeding my HD Tivo. So, I'm in no hurry for "upgrading" to the HR20. However, if DD were available via the HR20 (MPEG4 locals) on CBS and ABC; and the HR20 eventually activates it's OTA capability, I would probably upgrade to have the option of trading off picture quality for DD on some programs.


Slightly different topic: If anyone is currently getting the MPEG4 locals, how do find the HD quality versus D* MPEG2 lite?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Analog is a low-power 62 that you can't get outside of the city limits of Y-town. They also broadcast on subchannel 2 of WKBN.



I watch WYFX nearly every day here in Parma via WKBN-DT. It's SD,of course,however getting the occasional extra NFL game in SD is better than not getting it at all.


Yesterday Cleveland and Youngstown stations carried the exact same games, the previous week I was able to watch 2 CBS games: Cincinnati at Pittsburgh at 1 from WKBN-DT and Baltimore at Cleveland at 4 on WOIO-DT, plus WYFX had both FOX games (Cleveland was the only FOX market w/o a double header due to the Browns being televised at home on CBS).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting the MPEG4 digital/HD locals off D* yet? If so, by any chance is DD available on CBS and ABC? I'm really not expecting a "yes" answer; but thought I would ask anyway?
> 
> 
> I'm sure I get a better picture with an OTA antenna feeding my HD Tivo. So, I'm in no hurry for "upgrading" to the HR20. However, if DD were available via the HR20 (MPEG4 locals) on CBS and ABC; and the HR20 eventually activates it's OTA capability, I would probably upgrade to have the option of trading off picture quality for DD on some programs.
> 
> 
> Slightly different topic: If anyone is currently getting the MPEG4 locals, how do find the HD quality versus D* MPEG2 lite?



DD 5.1 will not be available on CBS or ABC from Cleveland locals until WOIO and WEWS break the bank and purchase the necessary equipment. The sattellite and cable feeds of these stations still have to originate from these stations. OTOH if you have the ability to go OTA, try for WKBN-DT - you'll get CBS HD & DD 5.1 plus newscasts that won't offend your intellegence

















MPEG4 is for the benefit of the satellite companies, not the viewers. The OTA stations are broadcast in MPEG2 to begin with.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting the MPEG4 digital/HD locals off D* yet? If so, by any chance is DD available on CBS and ABC? I'm really not expecting a "yes" answer; but thought I would ask anyway?
> 
> 
> I'm sure I get a better picture with an OTA antenna feeding my HD Tivo. So, I'm in no hurry for "upgrading" to the HR20. However, if DD were available via the HR20 (MPEG4 locals) on CBS and ABC; and the HR20 eventually activates it's OTA capability, I would probably upgrade to have the option of trading off picture quality for DD on some programs.
> 
> 
> Slightly different topic: If anyone is currently getting the MPEG4 locals, how do find the HD quality versus D* MPEG2 lite?



cant tell the difference for me between Mpeg4 and OTA, only problem right now is ABC has HORRIBLE playback issues, and that is on their ENd, other then that, I love my MPeg4 locals!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> cant tell the difference for me between Mpeg4 and OTA, only problem right now is ABC has HORRIBLE playback issues, and that is on their ENd, other then that, I love my MPeg4 locals!



Watched recorded episodes of Grays Anatomy and 6 degrees last night. Picture was perfect, no sound issues via TiVo S3 and TW.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watched recorded episodes of Grays Anatomy and 6 degrees last night. Picture was perfect, no sound issues via TiVo S3 and TW.



The playback only affects Mpeg4 Directv users, they are working on it, I have gotten calls from Directvs tech department.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Michael P 2341

19-2 was on the air last night. They have both weather and news updates. Withthe exceptionof the news updates it's just about a carbon copy of WKYC's Weather plus.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks! When I get home I'll check it out.


BTW: Last night 21 analog was looking good here in Parma. Just a small bit of snow and hardly any interference from WOIO. The digital side was too weak to stay locked. I did get an occasional frame or two admidst a sea of broken pixels. Previously all I got was a blank screen.


----------



## hookbill

TW sent out a supervisor and a lead tech to instal my cablecards in my S3 TiVo. Both guys were very knowledgeable and wanted to overview the install as according to Lenny, the supervisor, "This is the first TiVo we've installed cable cards into."


Lenny had done some research and had the same sheet that came with my TiVo. They checked my signal at box, basement, and wall to make sure I had a good signal. Install had a little hitch with the second card but we found we needed to wait a bit for that card to take. All in all pretty smooth and man am I glad to get rid of that SA 8300.


PQ is wonderful on all HD channels. Color me happy.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.



Anyways, still no picture on WFMJ-DT even after the power increase. I can see a slight increase in the signal meter on my TV, but not strong enough to lock into. I've tried with and without an amplifier, moving the antenna up, down, right, left, 360 degrees, out a window in Youngstown's direction, and whatever... still no picture. Can anyone think of reasons for why this would be? I get 21 analog fine. I would like to watch some Youngstown digitals, but I haven't been successful. It's fustrating


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Withthe exceptionof the news updates it's just about a carbon copy of WKYC's Weather plus.



Mostly *local* weather coverage...

Easier to receive than DT-2...

News bulletins... weather & traffic cams...


Ed...


----------



## Argee

So what happened to 5.1 sound for WEWS? Someone here reported last January that WEWS had the equipment and would soon install it.


----------



## hookbill

No picture yet but on my TiVo S3's guide WNEO DT is showing on channel 715 with a grey screen. That usually means it's coming.


Anyone with SA 8000 or SA 8300, do you see it?


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The playback only affects Mpeg4 Directv users, they are working on it, I have gotten calls from Directvs tech department.



Recorded Boston Legal on Tuesday on the HR20 from DTV>

Playback was HORRIBLE. Many breakups.

What is the latest from WEWS on when they will fix problem. Watching live shows is not a problem


----------



## snagy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The other day I posted a mesage here telling "DaMavs" to try the Youngstown stations. He's from Bainbridge too. The coverage maps off the FCC site puts southern Geauga County inside the circle for all 3 IIRC - WKBN and WFMJ for sure.
> 
> 
> snagy, do you get WYTV? If so how well? I wish they would up their power too. We need an alternate ABC for those time when WEWS goes pre-emption crazy (prime-time Matlock anyone?)




sorry for the delay in my response. i get WYTV with at least 60% signal. My 21 and 27 and 33 are all pretty good. Joel did a great job for me. My new problem now is the H20 is starting to act up already, When recording to DVD from any of the digital channels like 5-1 or 8-1, i get a copy-protected error message from my dvd-recorder. now my wifes soaps have to be recorded from normal 5 and or 8. I'm really getting pissed at the H20, ready to go back to my old RCA HD receiver, less problems there.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.



Nothing here on the south border of Medina. Analog comes in with quite a bit of snow, and digital doesn't lock. I lost the remote that lets me check signal strength on the digital, so I'm sorry to say I can't tell you how much strength there was.


I've been able to lock on to the digital sporadically over the past year or so. It's definitely weather related when I do get it.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Recorded Boston Legal on Tuesday on the HR20 from DTV>
> 
> Playback was HORRIBLE. Many breakups.
> 
> What is the latest from WEWS on when they will fix problem. Watching live shows is not a problem




Just got an email from Mike at WEWS, there encoders are now at the latest software, and its no longer on their end. I also have recieved several phone calls from Directv's Tech Department who say they are now working on their end, I can only hope this means all new equipment on their end. So Either they get this fixed, or turn on OTA, I cant wait!


----------



## Telosian




> Hookbill "PQ is wonderful on all HD channels. Color me happy."
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, glad all went well! Do you notice a better picture than with the 8300? How is the TIVO compared to the 8300? You've been waiting a long time to get this all working and I want to know the details. Did you get the hard drive you were using to work so your time of saved programs is extended? Your insights are requested!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No picture yet but on my TiVo S3's guide WNEO DT is showing on channel 715 with a grey screen. That usually means it's coming.
> 
> 
> Anyone with SA 8000 or SA 8300, do you see it?



Not here on my 8000.


I don't think the change had anything to do with TWC actually making it live on the ex-Adelphia systems, but rather, to TiVo finally updating the HD lineup to match the lineup TWC put on... TNTHD and The Tube also got added, according to the message on my SA S2 TiVo.


Of course, I blocked 'em out as soon as that came in, since the S2 doesn't do HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.



Getting not a whit of signal on DT 20 here in northwest Akron, just up the road from Andrew here. RS indoor amplified antenna pointed out a second story window in the same direction that gets WKBN-DT.


I'm guessing that we're terrain shadowed from you this far over? I do have some trees in front of it, a ways off, but I can still get WKBN-DT (barely).


I have another antenna that I'll be picking up tomorrow (if I remember!) that I'll try it with.


----------



## HDTD

Looks like Fox 8 is about to undergo a rebranding/graphics change. Going to the website listed on their 4x3 news pillars, the website has a completely cheesy and different look than the station's current package.


I find their pillars very annoying, too bold, too bright and they distract from the 4x3 video. Plus, on my CRT you see about half of the graphic in the pillar.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like Fox 8 is about to undergo a rebranding/graphics change. Going to the website listed on their 4x3 news pillars, the website has a completely cheesy and different look than the station's current package.
> 
> 
> I find their pillars very annoying, too bold, too bright and they distract from the 4x3 video. Plus, on my CRT you see about half of the graphic in the pillar.



I don't like their pillars either on HD. Notice that the web site is still beta. You need Macromedia 8 but if you have Macromedia 9 installed it doesn't work. I sent them an e mail on this using their form and it came back as an unknown web site.


Seems they jumped the gun on putting up that site.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like Fox 8 is about to undergo a rebranding/graphics change. Going to the website listed on their 4x3 news pillars, the website has a completely cheesy and different look than the station's current package.
> 
> 
> I find their pillars very annoying, too bold, too bright and they distract from the 4x3 video. Plus, on my CRT you see about half of the graphic in the pillar.



In fact, I was thinking the same thing about the pillars. It looks like they didn't give much effort into designing something that's easy to watch. The red-blue mix doesn't go well together and is very distracting. You read my mind. I'm sure they'll work it out.


What is this My Fox 8 anyways? Does this mean that their news is getting a makeover with the graphics?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mostly *local* weather coverage...
> 
> Easier to receive than DT-2...
> 
> News bulletins... weather & traffic cams...
> 
> 
> Ed...



Yes, it looks like WOIO-DTs subchannel is a locally-produced product, as opposed to WKYC-DTs Weather Plus, which I think is nationally distributed with local inserts.


It looks like WOIO is allocating the minimum bandwidth to this subchannel - lots of macroblocking. To me, it looks worse than WKYC-DTs subchannel. That's not necessarily a bad thing - I would rather see them allocate more bandwidth to the main channel.


Of course, the bad news is the Action News inserts and promotions. We really don't need (or want) to see any more of Action News!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is this My Fox 8 anyways? Does this mean that their news is getting a makeover with the graphics?



"My Space.com" "My Network" "My Fox" It seems to be the direction Fox wants to head. All Fox products.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MPEG4 is for the benefit of the satellite companies, not the viewers. The OTA stations are broadcast in MPEG2 to begin with.



Yes, original broadcast is in MPEG2; but 1080i is 1920x1080 at around 19 mps. In order to fit more stations per transponder, D* has reduced resolution and bit rate (i.e., HD lite).


Our assumption/hope was that when D* went to MPEG4, and began using the significant capacity of the new spot beam satellites; they would provide full resolution. Hope was that MPEG4 would provide picture quality comparable to OTA (just a different/more efficient encryption scheme).


----------



## Telosian




> Hookbill "PQ is wonderful on all HD channels. Color me happy."
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, glad all went well! Do you notice a better picture than with the 8300? How is the TIVO compared to the 8300? You've been waiting a long time to get this all working and I want to know the details. Did you get the hard drive you were using to work so your time of saved programs is extended? Your insights are requested!


----------



## rlockshin

Anyone else having problems with 43-1 and 2

I used to get it on my panasonic and now it says poor picture quality. Signal strength is 77

DTV H20-600 gets it.

Any ideas?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [Hey Hookbill, glad all went well! Do you notice a better picture than with the 8300? How is the TIVO compared to the 8300? You've been waiting a long time to get this all working and I want to know the details. Did you get the hard drive you were using to work so your time of saved programs is extended? Your insights are requested!



I've been talking a great deal about it on the TiVo boards, but since you asked I'll give you a run down.


I had the SA 8300 running along side of the S3 and there was a noticeable difference in pq. S3 with the THX technology is much better on HD. I did not notice much difference on the digital channels, but on the analog channels there was a huge difference with the TiVo S3. Much clearer picture, matter of fact the picture on the analog locals was better then the digital locals (except hd, of course)


The S3 has a 250 gb hard drive which means 35 hours HD and depending on your pq quality for SD it varys. If your interested in other details here's a FAQ you can take a look at and will probably answer all your other questions.


Oh and there is a site now that is selling the S3 for $699.00 including free shipping if anyone is interested.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not here on my 8000.
> 
> 
> I don't think the change had anything to do with TWC actually making it live on the ex-Adelphia systems, but rather, to TiVo finally updating the HD lineup to match the lineup TWC put on... TNTHD and The Tube also got added, according to the message on my SA S2 TiVo.
> 
> 
> Of course, I blocked 'em out as soon as that came in, since the S2 doesn't do HD.




WNEO must be coming though because it is on TW's cable line up card . And I remember handsworth saying it was coming as well as Universal HD


----------



## edjrwinnt

Have any of the REGULAR season Brown's games been broadast in Hi-def on Channel 19 this year? I don't remember one regular season game being broadcast in true Hi-def. I just got in an argument with a guy about this. I know for sure the last 2 have not.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have any of the REGULAR season Brown's games been broadast in Hi-def on Channel 19 this year? I don't remember one regular season game being broadcast in true Hi-def. I just got in an argument with a guy about this. I know for sure the last 2 have not.



IIRC, the first regular season Browns game was on Fox in HD. There have been no Browns games in HD on CBS to date.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 19-2 was on the air last night. They have both weather and news updates. Withthe exceptionof the news updates it's just about a carbon copy of WKYC's Weather plus.



That confirms my suspicion that WOIO is allocating less than 15Mbps to the main (HD) channel now. I'm out of town this week so I can't witness this travesty. The era of pristine CBS HD quality in Cleveland is now officially over. Lump them in with the same crap NBC is serving up for live sports.


Forget the 1080p plasma I was going to buy in 2007.... I'm bringing the ED plasma back out of the closet.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IIRC, the first regular season Browns game was on Fox in HD. There have been no Browns games in HD on CBS to date.



Thank you. I told this guy that the maybe the Saints game was but I couldn't remember for sure.


This is a disgrace by the way. Is their a petition out yet for the NFL and/or CBS?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is a disgrace by the way. Is their a petition out yet for the NFL and/or CBS?



There's been many a thread on AVS complaining about CBS only having 3 games a week in HD. The theory was the NFL would require all HD games in 2009, but I remember reading about some loophole in that. Hard to beleive CBS wouldn't have their act together (or someone else getting the AFC contract) by then, but you never know.


Hate to say it, but since WOIO is now multicasting, it almost doesn't matter to me anymore. Even if every Browns game were in HD tomorrow, the picture would suck just like NBC's Sunday night game. The NFL should just give contracts to quality 720p networks and forget about 1080i. Multicasting has ruined 1080i.


----------



## Telosian

Thanks Hookbill, I'll check it out


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's been many a thread on AVS complaining about CBS only having 3 games a week in HD. The theory was the NFL would require all HD games in 2009, but I remember reading about some loophole in that. Hard to beleive CBS wouldn't have their act together (or someone else getting the AFC contract) by then, but you never know.
> 
> 
> Hate to say it, but since WOIO is now multicasting, it almost doesn't matter to me anymore. Even if every Browns game were in HD tomorrow, the picture would suck just like NBC's Sunday night game. The NFL should just give contracts to quality 720p networks and forget about 1080i. Multicasting has ruined 1080i.



Raycom should have put the stupid new weather channel on WUAB alongside The Tube, since WUAB is now broadcasing in 720p (which should allow more bandwidth for subs than 1080i), rather than messing up the CBS PQ.


EDIT:


If MNTV uses the splicer system, like FOX does, they probably only send out 9-10Mbps. That would leave room for probably 3-4 subs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Raycom should have put the stupid new weather channel on WUAB alongside The Tube, since WUAB is now broadcasing in 720p (which should room allow for 2 subs), rather than messing up the CBS PQ.



When did WUAB start broadcasting in 720p?


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When did WUAB start broadcasting in 720p?



Since they started carrying MyNetwork TV, I believe, which broadcasts in 720p (since MNTV is Fox-owned)


At least my DVR indicates that they are sending out 720p now.


----------



## gass

rlockshin]Anyone else having problems with 43-1 and 2

I used to get it on my panasonic and now it says poor picture quality. Signal strength is 77

DTV H20-600 gets it.

Any ideas?


I lost it too, I'm east of Mogadore.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gass* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> rlockshin]Anyone else having problems with 43-1 and 2
> 
> I used to get it on my panasonic and now it says poor picture quality. Signal strength is 77
> 
> DTV H20-600 gets it.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> I lost it too, I'm east of Mogadore.



Watched the Ohio State game yesterday. It wasn't HD; but picture was normal for an upconvert (4:3). I'm in N. Royalton and use a rooftop antenna with HD Tivo and SXRD.


----------



## AdamPS

This is pretty much shamelessly copied over from another thread, but I thought that you guys could help me out since it is a Cleveland-specific problem...


I live in an apartment in Twinsburg. I am on the second floor with the main window/balcony in the TV room facing southwest, using an RCA ANT537 UHF/VHF antenna. Here are my relevant antennaweb results:


* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 296° 12.7 2

* red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 296° 13.0 10

* blue - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 291° 13.9 15

* blue - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 288° 13.7 31


For the past 9 months, I have been receiving 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1. I have never gotten 19.1 despite hours and hours of trying. About 2 weeks ago, 5.1 just stopped coming in, and has not come in since. In that time, I have tried 3 other antennas: a Silver Sensor (with no amp), a Radio Shack 15-1892, and a Phillips 510. None of these have helped me get anything other than 3.1 and 8.1. My question is, would there be any other indoor antenna that might help? Or am I pretty much SOL since I have already tried 4 antennas with the same results? Since I live in an apartment, I need to have a indoor antenna (unless there is a VERY low profile outdoor antenna that will work pointing southwest that I can just put on our balcony).


Thanks for any help you might be able to give.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Stations on a line to the NW were blasting in last night. I noticed that I was receiving all of the analog Toledo stations - 11, 13, 24, 30, 36 - even 40, with Akron's own Ernest Angsley. I was also picking up WXYZ-TV (channel 7 analog) out of Detroit pretty strongly. I started scanning around for long-distance digitals and eventually locked onto WILX-DT (10-1, 10-2, rf 57) and WLNS (6-1, rf 59) out of the Lansing, MI area between 11:30 and midnight.


----------



## JJkizak

AdamPS:

I live in Twinsburg on Cannon Road with outdoor antenna and I get 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1,

19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 61.1 solid. I also get 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5, 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, 67.1 very weak or intermittant most of the time. Once in a while I will get 11, 13 in analog and most of the time 3, 5, 8, 19, 23, 25, 35, 43, 49, 53, 55, 61, 65, 67. The antenna is pointed toward Cleveland in a fixed position.

JJK


----------



## rlb

I have a question for anyone who gets both OTA and D*'s new MPEG4 locals.


Since 19-1 went multi casting, people have been complaining about the degraded OTA picture. For those who can compare with MPEG4 locals, does it appear that the MPEG4 picture is also degraded; or are they now better than the OTA?


Reason I ask is that it is possible that D* could be getting the signal and encrypting before it was degraded for multi casting. If so, it would be a reason to go MPEG4 locals.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have any of the REGULAR season Brown's games been broadast in Hi-def on Channel 19 this year? I don't remember one regular season game being broadcast in true Hi-def. I just got in an argument with a guy about this. I know for sure the last 2 have not.



The only Browns game that has been broadcast in HD this year was the opener vs. the New Orleans Saints. That game was broadcast on FOX (8.1) not CBS 19.1.


The only other scheduled game to be in HD this year is the Dec. 7th game against Pittsburgh on the NFL Network.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is pretty much shamelessly copied over from another thread, but I thought that you guys could help me out since it is a Cleveland-specific problem...
> 
> 
> I live in an apartment in Twinsburg. I am on the second floor with the main window/balcony in the TV room facing southwest, using an RCA ANT537 UHF/VHF antenna. Here are my relevant antennaweb results:
> 
> 
> * red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 296° 12.7 2
> 
> * red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 296° 13.0 10
> 
> * blue - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 291° 13.9 15
> 
> * blue - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 288° 13.7 31
> 
> 
> For the past 9 months, I have been receiving 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1. I have never gotten 19.1 despite hours and hours of trying. About 2 weeks ago, 5.1 just stopped coming in, and has not come in since. In that time, I have tried 3 other antennas: a Silver Sensor (with no amp), a Radio Shack 15-1892, and a Phillips 510. None of these have helped me get anything other than 3.1 and 8.1. My question is, would there be any other indoor antenna that might help? Or am I pretty much SOL since I have already tried 4 antennas with the same results? Since I live in an apartment, I need to have a indoor antenna (unless there is a VERY low profile outdoor antenna that will work pointing southwest that I can just put on our balcony).
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help you might be able to give.



Call Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum.

440-237-6888


----------



## AdamPS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Call Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum.
> 
> 440-237-6888



Thanks. I will give him a shot.


----------



## Andrew K

How can you tell that WOIO-DT is broadcasting in 1080i? My tv doesn't tell me if it's 720p or 1080i. When I bought the tv, I tried to pick the one that I thought had the best HD picture. It's a 26" Phillips.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a question for anyone who gets both OTA and D*'s new MPEG4 locals.
> 
> 
> Since 19-1 went multi casting, people have been complaining about the degraded OTA picture. For those who can compare with MPEG4 locals, does it appear that the MPEG4 picture is also degraded; or are they now better than the OTA?
> 
> 
> Reason I ask is that it is possible that D* could be getting the signal and encrypting before it was degraded for multi casting. If so, it would be a reason to go MPEG4 locals.



Although some people can notice a degraded picture on 19-1, I can't tell the difference. It still looks just as good as all other HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How can you tell that WOIO-DT is broadcasting in 1080i? My tv doesn't tell me if it's 720p or 1080i. When I bought the tv, I tried to pick the one that I thought had the best HD picture. It's a 26" Phillips.



720p = FOX, ABC, MY NETWORK, ESPN

1080I= CBS, NBC and everyone else.


If your display doesn't tell you then you probably can only tell from these forums.


----------



## rlockshin

For people that have had trouble receiving 43-1 and 2. I was told by engineer at WUAB to rescan channels. They recently switched from 1080i to 720P to accomodate My Network programming


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although some people can notice a degraded picture on 19-1, I can't tell the difference. It still looks just as good as all other HD.



At its best, it used to be better. ABC and FOX use 720P (i.e., less resolution for those with 1080p or even 1080i sets) and NBC has always been a heavy multicaster. Previously, CBS was the one local station that provided 1080 resolution with no multicasting.


----------



## HDTD

I recently noticed Cox added FSN Ohio HD.


Last night's Columbus Blue Jackets game aired their first local HD game. Tonight's Cavs preaseason will not be HD.


During the day they're airing a Rainbow Network Communications Bethpage, NY, Technical Operations Center slate. Wondering if it's up to the cable company to switch to the SD feed during the day. It's just a looping animated slate with a 15-sec or so music cut that stings and repeats.


Maybe a dedicated channel will mean a better committment from Fox Ohio for HD programs.


----------



## Andrew K

Last night, I was barely able to lock onto WKBN-DT for about 15 minutes using my indoor silver sensor and amplifier. Could this have been due to atmospheric conditions?? I've never been able to lock onto this before, and the signal meter wasn't much higher than usual.


Does anyone know how this could be? I didn't notice anything strange with atmospheric conditions, unless anyone else did.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Last night's Columbus Blue Jackets game aired their first local HD game. Tonight's Cavs preaseason will not be HD.



DirecTV carried it on channel 95. I happened to notice it in the guide as a fluke, but I did watch a good portion of it. All cameras were HD except the goal cams, which were a bad stretch of a poor quality camera anyway, and the overhead scoreboard cam, which was done in a pillarbox.


Overall, I was extremely impressed. Of course it doesn't hurt that I'm a big BlueJackets fan, that Nationwide Arena is the single best sports arena I've ever been to, and that Columbus is now leading the division.


----------



## eml626

I am currently using time warner cable and to be honest since they have shown no signs of upgradding their hardware to passport I just want to implement everything to my mediacenter computer. Can someone out there using a fusion or other QAM card on time warner in cleveland pleas etell me what stations are indeed open? I have been playing with OTA at a friends apartment behind Beachwood mall and the results are iffy as far as signal strength so I would rather go QAM I think if all locals are available. Does anyone Have any opinions. I am currently living in a home in Orange so I imagine my OTA signal will be better then his. He is using a $100 plus indoor outdoor panel antenna. Thank you.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone out there using a fusion or other QAM card on time warner in cleveland pleas etell me what stations are indeed open?



Here's what I found from a QAM scan on TWC/Adelphia:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8381711 


(Man, I can't believe that it's 13 pages back already. Busy thread.)


Also, try the OnAir Solutions AutumnWave USB tuner. It works right out of the box and is very easy to use. Another bonus is that they have a CSR monitoring this AVS thread for support.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589


----------



## eml626

thank you for the quick reply. Do you think for ota there is something that will get better signal strength then vbox? This autumnwave is qam then I am assuming w/ mce interface looks interesting. If it gets tnt and discovery and the bonus channel for cavs in hd that may be the ultimate solution. I am sick of paying for digi cavble and dvr that is just no good. BTW this box says it does not do QAM in MCE. I read on the other thread u posted that it should work in mce. any ideas?


----------



## ajstan99

Not familiar with vbox. The AutumnWave does a nice job with OTA as well.


I'm on WOW cable (no clear QAM) so I have limited experience with this box. Ryan (the CSR) and the others in the AutumnWave thread will be very helpful. I'd recommend getting your basic questions answered, then just pulling the trigger and ordering one from walmart.com (the other vendors may be cheaper, but have harsh restocking fees). If it works out for you, great. Otherwise you're only out the $5.00 for shipping and you can return to a store.


----------



## eml626

that is probably a good call I am just most concerned about the QAM support in mce2005 other then that all is cake.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> That confirms my suspicion that WOIO is allocating less than 15Mbps to the main (HD) channel now. I'm out of town this week so I can't witness this travesty. The era of pristine CBS HD quality in Cleveland is now officially over. Lump them in with the same crap NBC is serving up for live sports.
> 
> 
> Forget the 1080p plasma I was going to buy in 2007.... I'm bringing the ED plasma back out of the closet.



720p, 1080i what's the difference? You get twice the frames per second at 720p, 360 more lines at 1080i, so it should be a wash as far as the data rate goes.


If you did not know the subchannel was there would you even notice the difference? It's all psychological. Until recently WOIO had some serious issues with their digital PQ (on both HD and SD programs) - this was BEFORE 19.2 went on the air. They recently cleaned up their digital signal and added 19.2.


Can any of you honestly say that WEWS and WJW both look better than the rest, just because these two are the only ones without a subchannel?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night, I was barely able to lock onto WKBN-DT for about 15 minutes using my indoor silver sensor and amplifier. Could this have been due to atmospheric conditions?? I've never been able to lock onto this before, and the signal meter wasn't much higher than usual.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how this could be? I didn't notice anything strange with atmospheric conditions, unless anyone else did.



The atmosphere was definitly helping the distants along last night. Besides WKBN (which I get 24/7 anyway) I was able to get a lock on WFMJ, WPXI, and WQED.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am currently using time warner cable and to be honest since they have shown no signs of upgradding their hardware to passport I just want to implement everything to my mediacenter computer. Can someone out there using a fusion or other QAM card on time warner in cleveland pleas etell me what stations are indeed open? I have been playing with OTA at a friends apartment behind Beachwood mall and the results are iffy as far as signal strength so I would rather go QAM I think if all locals are available. Does anyone Have any opinions. I am currently living in a home in Orange so I imagine my OTA signal will be better then his. He is using a $100 plus indoor outdoor panel antenna. Thank you.



I have an S3 TiVo and before cable cards were installed I used it as a QAM tuner. Local HD's are availabe, the only one I couldn't get was FOX 8 but for some reason I couldn't pick up that on my scan. I think it's located at 105.1. Discovery, PBS, and TNT are also available.


One other thing: passport is not necessarily an "upgrade", it's just a different type of software other then SARA.


Also you could get an S3 TiVo, if you go to the TiVo Forum there is a link for purchasing one for 699.00.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's what I found from a QAM scan on TWC/Adelphia:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8381711
> 
> 
> (Man, I can't believe that it's 13 pages back already. Busy thread.)
> 
> 
> Also, try the OnAir Solutions AutumnWave USB tuner. It works right out of the box and is very easy to use. Another bonus is that they have a CSR monitoring this AVS thread for support.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589



The only thing I would add is that not all of us on TWC get Discovery HD in the clear. I, unfortunately, get LOGO instead.


----------



## klubbers

The past week or so I've been having trouble receiving 19-1. I live in Cleveland Hts and had been receiving 19-1 without much of a problem since July. I haven't noticed any issues with 3-1, 5-1 or 8-1. Any ideas? I have an internal antenna and point it south west.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 720p, 1080i what's the difference? You get twice the frames per second at 720p, 360 more lines at 1080i, so it should be a wash as far as the data rate goes.
> 
> 
> If you did not know the subchannel was there would you even notice the difference? It's all psychological. Until recently WOIO had some serious issues with their digital PQ (on both HD and SD programs) - this was BEFORE 19.2 went on the air. They recently cleaned up their digital signal and added 19.2.
> 
> 
> Can any of you honestly say that WEWS and WJW both look better than the rest, just because these two are the only ones without a subchannel?



As far as pixelization goes, definitely. In also helps that they are 720p.


WOIO has been allocating bandwidth for the new subchannel for at least a couple of months (at least based on recording filesizes on my HTPC). Football is very noticably degraded now as opposed to last year (although nowhere near as bad as SNF on WKYC, which is almost unwatchable IMO). I agree that there is little or no difference in CBS primetime PQ.


That now leaves only WEWS sending out HD in anything close to 19.2Mbps. WJW may not multicast, but the FOX network only sends out approx 9-10Mbps on priime-time shows, maybe 12 or so for football, due to their splicer system - they send out an ATSC-ready stream to their affiliates, and the reduced bitrate probably has to do with accomodating afiiliates who have a lot of subs.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have an S3 TiVo and before cable cards were installed I used it as a QAM tuner. Local HD's are availabe, the only one I couldn't get was FOX 8 but for some reason I couldn't pick up that on my scan. I think it's located at 105.1. Discovery, PBS, and TNT are also available.



On my Fusion USB HDTV tuner, WJW HD is also not remapping to the proper place.


Adelphia, whenever they set that up, did not properly form the PSIP for WJW's HD channel. The others are perfect. That's the reason you can't get it on the QAM tuner in the TiVo S3. If they'd fix it, you'd be able, but you have the cable cards now.










I can get it on my Fusion, it just looks funny in the listing, and isn't grouped with the other OTA HD stations. ("WJW HD - 1052" or something.)


TWC has done nothing significant to change the QAM channels, from what I've seen.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only thing I would add is that not all of us on TWC get Discovery HD in the clear. I, unfortunately, get LOGO instead.



I get both, and I'm on the same end of the TWC/former Adelphia system as you are, as far as I know.


This may have to do with whatever you're using to tune in QAM...


----------



## techweb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although some people can notice a degraded picture on 19-1, I can't tell the difference. It still looks just as good as all other HD.



CBS HD programs on 19-1 definitely look softer now.


----------



## dc10forlife

Are you up there in Cleveland getting FSN-HD broadcasts for the Columbus Blue Jackets? They just started this past week. Not that I care so much for the Blue Jackets, but I do care about the upcoming college HD games produced by FSN-HD (and so far FSN-Ohio-HD has not been added anywhere in southern Ohio).


----------



## Rijax

As stated earlier, those of us on Cox Cable now have FSNHD and we got the BlueJackets game last Monday night.


----------



## gzath

 http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/1...-lil-john.html 


I remember watching Ghoulardi as a kid then going through the Big Chuck & Hoolihan era. Everytime I hear Rod Stewart's "Maggie May" it reminds me of the end of their show.


Of course the "Certain Ethnic" joke skits were great. Brooklyn's own Mush Mouth Mariano Pacetti eating whole pizzas in less than 60 seconds.


"Certain Ethnic Movers" try to move a dresser but it's too heavy. Stash (loved the hat, cheesy mustache and wide striped sweater) gets a bright idea to take the drawers out. Then proceeds to stack them back on top of the dresser.


Hope they have a nice long send off show and maybe a DVD of some of their best skits.


Good luck to them.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 720p, 1080i what's the difference? You get twice the frames per second at 720p, 360 more lines at 1080i, so it should be a wash as far as the data rate goes.
> 
> 
> If you did not know the subchannel was there would you even notice the difference? It's all psychological. Until recently WOIO had some serious issues with their digital PQ (on both HD and SD programs) - this was BEFORE 19.2 went on the air. They recently cleaned up their digital signal and added 19.2.
> 
> 
> Can any of you honestly say that WEWS and WJW both look better than the rest, just because these two are the only ones without a subchannel?



You get more resolution (1080 lines) with 1080i. No matter what you say, 720p only provides 720 lines of resolution. Sure data rate is fairly close; however, 720p's advantage is with motion. Not resolution! I just played a recording from HD Tivo of the HDNet Test Patterns. Even with HD lite, if I have the Tivo output 1080i, I can clearly read line 10 on their little blurb that shows resolution. With a 720p output, it is fuzzy enough that I would not be able to read it if I didn't know what it says.


With my 60" 1080P SXRD I can definitely tell a difference between OTA 1080i and 720p. I prefer 720p for football; but definitely prefer 1080i for movies/sit coms, etc. I can also tell a difference when they add sub channels because I get more motion artifacts and picture is not as sharp if there is any movement.


I still wonder if the cable and satellite companies get their local feed before or after the stations reduce bit rate to add their sub channels. Various cities/stations do it differently. They can do it via digital lines (capable of preserving the full bit rate for the primary digital channel) or over the air (using the signal that we get with an antenna).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still wonder if the cable and satellite companies get their local feed before or after the stations reduce bit rate to add their sub channels. Various cities/stations do it differently. They can do it via digital lines (capable of preserving the full bit rate for the primary digital channel) or over the air (using the signal that we get with an antenna).



Sure there are many different transmission paths to get the signal from the station to the cable/sat provider, but very few if any have separate HDTV encoders dedicated to providing the cable/sat provider a separately encoded signal. The local affiliate takes the signal that is provided to them, sends it though their various pieces of equipment and then (in most cases not involving Fox) encodes it for end user consumption.


So unless the station has two separate encoders then the content provider gets the same signal that is sent off to the broadcast tower regardless of transmission method.


Now, would the local affiliate be interested in dropping a considerable amount of money to provide a cable/sat provider a better signal then they provide their direct viewers, probably not. Do cable/sat providers want to pony up the cash to give the station a second encoder so they can have a "marginally" better picture, highly doubtful. That is why I believe there are almost 0 affiliates providing the cable/sat provider a better signal than they broadcast.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is why I believe there are almost 0 affiliates providing the cable/sat provider a better signal than they broadcast.



Thanks. I imagine that what you say is correct. However, unless I remember something incorrectly (very possible since I'm in my sixties); I've read posts discussing better cable than OTA feeds for the reason discussed in my previous question. Of course, even if my memory is correct; the posters may have been mistaken. I'll try and find one of these earlier posts.


----------



## Andrew K

Does anyone know annything about this? It's a very small device that plugs into your computer's USB. It looks very interesting...


"Introducing PCTV HD Pro Stick


Your key to free HDTV

on your PC anywhere.


It's easy to enjoy analog and high-quality digital television in both HD and standard definition with full DVR functionality on your laptop with Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick.


The USB 2.0 powered tuner and mini-remote are conveniently sized for on the go travel. And with pause, TimeShift, and automatic recording functionality, you can access your favorite HD or SD shows wherever, whenever with no service fees.


SRP: $129.99


Buy Now

or save $30 when you purchase

with your Studio Upgrade"

$129.99 $99.99


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You get more resolution (1080 lines) with 1080i. No matter what you say, 720p only provides 720 lines of resolution. Sure data rate is fairly close; however, 720p's advantage is with motion. Not resolution!



I agree, but for a different reason. Isn't interlaced (alternating of odd and even lines of resolution) shown at twice the "speed" of progressive (both odd and even lines at the same time)? 1080i would show lines 1,3,5,7 and then 2,4,6,8 during the same period of time 720p would show 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Therefore, 720p would have an advantage in terms of motion and 1080i would have better resolution.


But the big advantage of 1080i is that modern HDTVs create 1080p (deinterlaced) from all signals. They put the lines of resolution back so you essentially get all the resolution with the advantages of progressive motion.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know annything about this? It's a very small device that plugs into your computer's USB. It looks very interesting...



I can't find anything on this. There is a NY Times article that notes that the receiver probably won't be able to pick up HD signals in a moving object.


Seeing it hasn't been released yet, you won't find much else in reviews. The big issue is how well it's antenna will be able to get a signal... otherwise, you'll need to have an antenna. Sounds tricky to me.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree, but for a different reason. Isn't interlaced (alternating of odd and even lines of resolution) shown at twice the "speed" of progressive (both odd and even lines at the same time)? 1080i would show lines 1,3,5,7 and then 2,4,6,8 during the same period of time 720p would show 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Therefore, 720p would have an advantage in terms of motion and 1080i would have better resolution.



You're on to something, Kinglerch. 720p has better _temporal_ resolution, while 1080i has more _spatial_ resolution. Temporal resolution is the amount of information delivered to your eyeballs for a fixed portion of the screen in a fixed amount of time. This is why it's better for fast-moving sports; the flying football won't flicker.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.



It's making a big difference here in North Canton. I can now get your digital signal all day using just my indoor rabbit ears. (I used to only be able to get a signal starting around 9 pm that would still drop out occassionally.) Since I can't get WKYC-DT with my indoor antenna, this allows me to now receive a solid signal to view all the NBC HD programming. Thanks.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. I imagine that what you say is correct. However, unless I remember something incorrectly (very possible since I'm in my sixties); I've read posts discussing better cable than OTA feeds for the reason discussed in my previous question. Of course, even if my memory is correct; the posters may have been mistaken. I'll try and find one of these earlier posts.



I know of only one example where a cable system _will be_ getting a better picture directly from the station that what that station can broadcast OTA:

WYFX the low-power FOX affiliate(s) in Youngstown/Mercer PA will be sending an HDTV feed to local cable systems while the OTA signal is low-power analog on two diffeent channels 17/62, and a digital SD subchannel of WKBN-DT (27.2).


This is an extreme case due to the nature of low-power TV and the lack of an additional full-power channel in the Youngstown market.


That is a big difference compaired to the more subtle difference that any of our full-power HD stations could deliver to the cable and satellite carriers.


BTW: WYFX's SD signal to DirecTV is received OTA via the WKBN-DT subchannel. Prior to WKBN-DT going on the air (it was the last of the Youngstown stations to go OTA digitally) only Dish Network had WYFX. This was due to the location of DirecTV's "POP" (Point of Presence - the local receiving facillity or "LRF" for Youngstown is located in Salem - too far to get a good picture off the analog LP WYFX).


----------



## yespage

I like torturing myself, so I tossed in a search on WVIZ HD's actual broadcast transmission plans. They updated their website on 9/28/06 .


Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.


> Quote:
> Transmitting tower issues at the main transmitter site in North Royalton need to be resolved before a permanent, full power DTV transmission system can be installed at that location. WVIZ/PBS continues to pursue the resolution of its tower issues and hopes to build its permanent transmission plant in Spring/Summer of 2007.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.



Looks like the plans to open up my wallet for their fund drives has also been delayed until spring/summer of 2007.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like torturing myself, so I tossed in a search on WVIZ HD's actual broadcast transmission plans. They updated their website on 9/28/06 .
> 
> 
> Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.



I don't think WVIZ cares. They've been pushing back that date several times by making the same excuse. They should've been on the air long ago considering that they're in such a large market.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think WVIZ cares. They've been pushing back that date several times by making the same excuse. They should've been on the air long ago considering that they're in such a large market.




We should allow them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that the tower issue is completely within their control. They are trying to lease space on an existing tower site so they're at the mercy of the owner of the tower.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We should allow them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that the tower issue is completely within their control. They are trying to lease space on an existing tower site so they're at the mercy of the owner of the tower.



Maybe some of us should contact the tower owner about this issue. There may be legitimate issues about the abilityof the tower to support a second transmitting antenna. The quick fix would be for ch 25 to "flash cut" to digital. I don't think the tower owners coud dictate what is being transmitted as long as no new hardware was put on the tower. I'm willing to bet the curent ch 25 antenna culd support the digital 26 signal without much modification.


WKBN had a similar issue which was eventually resolved.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe some of us should contact the tower owner about this issue. There may be legitimate issues about the abilityof the tower to support a second transmitting antenna. The quick fix would be for ch 25 to "flash cut" to digital. I don't think the tower owners coud dictate what is being transmitted as long as no new hardware was put on the tower. I'm willing to bet the curent ch 25 antenna culd support the digital 26 signal without much modification.
> 
> 
> WKBN had a similar issue which was eventually resolved.



I agree. You have a point here. I wonder what it would take to get some action to get the digital going. I've just been pesimistic about this because WVIZ has said so many times that they would have had the issue resolved, and it has never happened. They have kept changing the date, and it has always gotten my hopes up for nothing. That's why I wouldn't count on their estimated date.


I'm looking forward to seeing some PBS HD nature programs again. Those were always nice to see on WEAO.


----------



## jtscherne

For those of you who care, next Sunday's Browns game vs. Denver will be in HD. The game is scheduled for 4:05 p.m. I noticed it today when CBS showed their schedule for next week, showing the HD games.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you who care, next Sunday's Browns game vs. Denver will be in HD. The game is scheduled for 4:05 p.m. I noticed it today when CBS showed their schedule for next week, showing the HD games.



You beat me to it!


Re: Yesterday's KC @ PIT game


WOIO switched to the MIA @ NYJ game half-way trough the 4th quarter, presumably because the game in Pittsburgh was a blow-out. WKBN continued to show the Steelers.


Is it SOP for an affilliate to switch games in the case of a blow-out? I presme that would be a no-no for the stations in the 2 home markets.


----------



## jtscherne

I don't know about SOP, but it does happen sometimes. Yes, they couldn't do that for the team markets. In fact, in case of a double header with the home markets having the second game, they must break away from the first game to go to the second, even if the first isn't over.


I guess ESPN had a crazy situation Saturday going from game to game in the 12:00 slot because they were ALL blowouts!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Re: Yesterday's KC @ PIT game
> 
> 
> WOIO switched to the MIA @ NYJ game half-way trough the 4th quarter, presumably because the game in Pittsburgh was a blow-out. WKBN continued to show the Steelers.
> 
> 
> Is it SOP for an affilliate to switch games in the case of a blow-out? I presme that would be a no-no for the stations in the 2 home markets.


----------



## Michael P 2341

 http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/07-CBS.gif 

According to the above link WKBN will carry the PIT @ ATL game, in HD at 1:00 PM.

Since CBS only has a singleheader viewers in the Youngstown market would need access to WOIO for the Browns at 4:05 PM.


Since the 4:05 game is in Cleveland WJW will not be allowed to carry the 2nd game of the FOX doubnleheader. WYFX, of course will have both FOX games.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has added WOIO's WeatherNow to the lineup on channel 110. What a waste of bandwidth.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wide Open West has added WOIO's WeatherNow to the lineup on channel 110. What a waste of bandwidth.



Can anyone seriously tell the difference in picture??? I cannot tell the difference. If you didn't know that there was a subchannel, you probably wouldn't know the difference. CSI still has the best picture of all HD in my opinion, especially CSI Miami with its vibrant color. I think that this program actually has better picture than a lot of Fox 8 and ABC 5 programming, and they don't have subchannels. I like having subchannels with weather, news, music, and more choice. These subchannels have done a lot of good especially for Youngstown viewers, and it's a big reason for why digital broadcasting is so much better than analog. No complaints here.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody know of an online listing that shows the upcoming schedule for FSN HD? Titan doesn't have it. Nor does the FSN site itself.


Thanks.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody know of an online listing that shows the upcoming schedule for FSN HD? Titan doesn't have it. Nor does the FSN site itself.
> 
> 
> Thanks.


 HD Sports Guide has your back!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone seriously tell the difference in picture??? I cannot tell the difference. If you didn't know that there was a subchannel, you probably wouldn't know the difference. CSI still has the best picture of all HD in my opinion, especially CSI Miami with its vibrant color. I think that this program actually has better picture than a lot of Fox 8 and ABC 5 programming, and they don't have subchannels. I like having subchannels with weather, news, music, and more choice. These subchannels have done a lot of good especially for Youngstown viewers, and it's a big reason for why digital broadcasting is so much better than analog. No complaints here.



Slow moving dramas like CSI won't suffer the macroblocking problems that live sports (especially football) suffers with reduced bandwidth.


I noticed the macroblocking on WOIO the first game of the season (Chiefs/Bengals if I remember correctly) At that time the weather channel was not running, but they had already allocated the bandwidth for it.


This Sunday's Browns/Broncos game will be an excellent opportunity to review WOIO's PQ with the new weather subchannel running.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> HD Sports Guide has your back!



Thanks for the info. It's a little hard to read (wish they had a by-channel button), but I did find what I was looking for, I think. Looks like the only thing on FSNHD-Ohio in the next two weeks is the Blue Jackets next Friday.


I was hoping maybe the game tonight from Columbus would be in HD, but I guess not.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm with you there. Akron is kind of unique in that I believe it is the largest city without its own local TV newscast. The issues are history (the market has always been centered on Cleveland), geography (AKron is just TOO close to Cleveland to be its own independent market), and politics (Cleveland would fight tooth-and-nail any attempt to break up its DMA).
> 
> 
> I thought the 23 News product produced by WKYC was a pretty solid product - no nonsense, local news only - no American Idol crap or interviews with celebrities.
> 
> 
> To bring this back on topic - since WKYC-DT runs a subchannel with weather on it 24 hours a day, why not take a couple of half hour blocks (say 7:00 and 10:30) and replace the weather with the WKYC-produced Akron/Canton 23 Newscast?



I think the largest is actually Newark, NJ.


----------



## paule123

I posted this over on the WS thread, but would like to check with you local guys and see if you notice it.


I'm getting a "static" pulse every couple seconds similar to what I saw on Game 7 from Shea. Most noticeable in the dark areas of the picture. Look at the green padded wall behind the batter or when they show the dark green bushes in center field under the General Motors sign.


Watching WJW-DT via WOW cable, Cleveland, on a 42" HD plasma via component. Very hard to detect the problem on my smaller kitchen countertop 17" LCD.


Also checked via OTA tuner via HDMI and same problem visible.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I posted this over on the WS thread, but would like to check with you local guys and see if you notice it.
> 
> 
> I'm getting a "static" pulse every couple seconds similar to what I saw on Game 7 from Shea. Most noticeable in the dark areas of the picture. Look at the green padded wall behind the batter or when they show the dark green bushes in center field under the General Motors sign.
> 
> 
> Watching WJW-DT via WOW cable, Cleveland, on a 42" HD plasma via component. Very hard to detect the problem on my smaller kitchen countertop 17" LCD.
> 
> 
> Also checked via OTA tuner via HDMI and same problem visible.



I just looked at the game for about an inning, saw the score and decided to do other things, but wow....what a picture. No problems that I could see. Except that lady who sang God Bless America blew the last note.


----------



## ZManCartFan

For anyone down the road who might search for this info, I thought I'd post my thoughts on Armstrong Cable here in Medina. I switched from DirecTV a little over a week ago, and mostly I'm pretty happy.


It started with a dish buy-back deal that was too good to pass up: twelve months of digital cable, two DVRs (one with HD), Zoom Internet 500, and unlimited local and long distance phone for $89. After that it will switch to about $158 per month.


The equipment is an Arris MTU (with 8-hour UPS built in) to handle the phone and internet along with two Motorola 3416 boxes. They're all digital (they mirror all channels 1-63 with the digital feed) and do not have analog tuners. I won't go into detail, but they have 160 gig drives. Like someone else said, they may not be perfect, but since they are my first DVR units I'm happy. They're tremendously easy to operate.


HD offerings include local 3, 5, 8, 19, and PBS. Other HD includes TNT, UHD, HDNet and HDNet Movies, FSN HD, ESPN, WealthTV, HBO, Showtime, Starz, and Cinemax. After an initial mixup in which they had the DVR connected to the analog TV as being the one authorized for HD, I'm now getting it they way it should be. It should be noted that both boxes, even when connected to an analog TV, will receive and downconvert the locals and other HD offerings that are not part of the "HD Advantage Pack." All but about 3 or 4 channels come through on both TVs. Picture quality is excellent.


Speaking of picture quality, I find it to be much more consistent than what I experienced with D*. I never noticed any issues with D*'s HD stuff, but the regular SD digital channels were so highly compressed that I now realize there was a lot of detail missing. I can even notice the difference on the analog set.


Armstrong also offers an analog signal for no extra cost for any TV in the house. I am extremely impressed at the signal quality on the analog stuff. I may actually use the PiP feature again!


The install went great. The guys spent extra time trying to fix some static in the phone line that I thought had been caused by a previous homeowner who had cut a small piece of the wiring in the basement to run another outlet down there. Again, I won't go into details. But even though the guys weren't able to fix it, I felt like they really tried by trying alternate wiring pairs and running signal testers all over the house.


As far as Armstrong's implementation of the Motorola boxes go, the 30-second-skip macro does not work. That's a bummer, but it's made up for by the fact that recording over firewire works flawlessly. I've been able to record SD digitals, locals, local HD, and Video On Demand movies. I have not yet tried DVR'd material from HBO, but I did notice last night that a live broadcast of HBO HD was 5C encrypted.


The only "problem" that I've experienced was that none of the premium service VoD channels would work after the installers left. It kept giving me a message that I needed to purchase the service even though it comes "free" with subscription to the channels themselves (HBO, Cinemax, Starz, and Showtime including TMC.) The customer service folks tried resetting the boxes, but nothing would help. Finally I called to let them know that the upper digitals (channels 483 through 500) weren't coming in either, so they should add that note to the scheduled service visit. They informed me that those channels are now part of a "Digital II" tier that was never disclosed. It's an extra $4 per month, but because it includes Versus (I'm a hockey fan), I told them to go ahead and add it. The VoD channels then started working after that. They very well might not be connected to each other, but I have a sneaking suspicion that something was set incorrectly on their system that unauthorized the premium VoD channels when those upper digitals were locked out. I also have the feeling that the Digital II tier is brand new, and all of the kinks may not be worked out yet.


All in all, it's been a good move. For the price, I'm very happy. And for the most important factor, even my wife has been impressed. She's already amassed quite a DVR library of movies. And since I can dump those to DVD and maintain the DD 5.1 through the firewire connection, I guess the fact that the DVR is about 40% full on about 30 hours of (mostly) SD material doesn't really bother me.


----------



## JJkizak

I have no problem with the picture of the Series game OTA.


JJK


----------



## paule123

WOIO keeps forgetting to flip the HD switch on the NFL Today pregame show.


As I type this I see someone woke them up, now it's HD.


----------



## Tom in OH

Just checked "Ghost whisperer" from ota last Friday on the DVR and the first 10mins. has audio but no video with a message "loss of input signal"? Looks like they fixed it.


----------



## rlb

Two Sunday's ago they forgot to flip the switch for the entire prime time schedule. Since the Sunday evening schedule frequently slips because of games extending beyond 7:00 PM, there must be something unusual about how they initiate HD on Sunday nights. Whatever the issue, they are incompetent.


----------



## Rijax

I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just checked "Ghost whisperer" from ota last Friday on the DVR and the first 10mins. has audio but no video with a message "loss of input signal"? Looks like they fixed it.



Thanks for the heads up Tom. I got the same thing to via TW.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.



Yes and it seems to happen during non football season as well. Any sporting event that runs 60 minutes back and we don't get the HD feed.


I've changed all my recordings on CBS on Sunday to SD because of this. No need in wasting disk space.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up Tom. I got the same thing to via TW.



I wondered if you had the same thing on the new Tivo via cable. Luckily it happened at the beginning and not the end. thx for posting.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.



You may be right; but I can't imagine why that would be a technical requirement.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.



I think it's because the local station doesn't have the equipment to tape delay the prime time HD programming, they can only record in SD mode.


----------



## paule123

The Browns game PQ looked very good today on WOIO, even with the weather subchannel. I wonder why CBS can do a better job than NBC with the limited bandwidth? Must be better encoders I guess. NBC Sunday Night Football (and all NBC's other sports programming) has so many PQ problems with WeatherPlus running.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Browns game PQ looked very good today on WOIO, even with the weather subchannel. I wonder why CBS can do a better job than NBC with the limited bandwidth? Must be better encoders I guess. NBC Sunday Night Football (and all NBC's other sports programming) has so many PQ problems with WeatherPlus running.



There was some pixelization and "mosquito noise" on some fast-moving shots, and it didn't really have that "looking out a window" clarity that CBS football on WOIO used to have.


Totally agree about NBC SNF - it only looks good if eveything is absolutely still, and badly pixellates with any motion at all.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it's because the local station doesn't have the equipment to tape delay the prime time HD programming, they can only record in SD mode.



I'll sell them my HD-Tivo for cheap. (ha, ha) Seriously, it can't be that hard/expensive.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll sell them my HD-Tivo for cheap. (ha, ha) Seriously, it can't be that hard/expensive.



Stations have to record a much higher bitrate stream than what they pump out to the end user so the storage space required is much larger than you might think.


Since there are very few stations that have the ability to timeshift HD programing it must be that hard/expensive to do.


----------



## hookbill

terryfoster, I assume then you have the same situation in the Cinci area as well with no HD after football?


Also discussing the same thing on the TiVo boards the other day apparently O&O CBS affiliates do show the remaining broadcasts in HD.


----------



## terryfoster

It would appear from another user's complaints that we also lacked HD for the evening. Probably screwed up my recording of Amazing Race too.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> terryfoster, I assume then you have the same situation in the Cinci area as well with no HD after football?
> 
> 
> Also discussing the same thing on the TiVo boards the other day apparently O&O CBS affiliates do show the remaining broadcasts in HD.



Our local CBS affiliate is cheap, cheap, cheap!! That's why we still have no DD 5.1 sound from them. So, we'll probably go forever without HD on Sunday evenings during football season.


----------



## JJkizak

Expensive? Remember that anything those tv stations purchase starts at $30,000.00.


JJK


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Expensive? Remember that anything those tv stations purchase starts at $30,000.00.
> 
> 
> JJK



I've read where that is the approximate cost of the DD 5.1 capability. Now, that may be a lot on my budget; but it should not be too much for a major network affiliate in a top 20 market.


That only proves that squeezing a few more bucks into the bottom line is more important than providing a quality product. They can survive with a lack of concern for quality because of the fact that they have a monopoly (only CBS programming in the Cleveland market).


At least NBC and Fox have 5.1; and ABC is working on it. It appears that they care about their product. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about our CBS station.


----------



## terryfoster

Budgets are budgets and when they look at dropping $30K on a device that "marginally" improves their HD product that is viewed by the vast minority of their viewers the choice becomes very simple.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Budgets are budgets and when they look at dropping $30K on a device that "marginally" improves their HD product that is viewed by the vast minority of their viewers the choice becomes very simple.



From what I hear I wouldn't expect it to get better. I caught a report on CNN this weekend talking about how NBC is planning on reducing their budget by offering more game/reality shows and *perhaps* cutting primetime hours down to two a night following FOX's lead.


Of course what we really are talking about is Raycom and anyone who knows anything around town about them knows they are cheap.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Budgets are budgets and when they look at dropping $30K on a device that "marginally" improves their HD product that is viewed by the vast minority of their viewers the choice becomes very simple.



I don't know what you consider marginal. But how is this? Lets say their station is valued at $10 million (I would presume that this is very conservative). A $30k investment is .003% of current value. Now that is truly marginal.


How marginal is the value of DD 5.1? If I were renting a DVD and had a choice between one at $4.00 with DD 5.1 and one at $3.50 with only stereo; I would definitely pay the $4.00. If DD 5.1 were not of marginal value, would basically all movies and DVD's include the multiple channel soundtrack? Would the networks provide basically all their primetime HD programming with DD 5.1 sound? Would DD 5.1 have been written into the HD broadcasting standard? Would the other three network stations in Cleveland have considered the expense justified?


So if you are talking about a marginal impact, it would seem clear to me that the definition is met by the increased cost and not by the increased functionality.


Once again, the CBS affiliate doesn't care about the quality of their product.


----------



## hookbill

Here's another side of the coin. How about blaming CBS? When FOX goes into the evening with football their programs are "joined in progress." Why not join 60 minutes in progress? Not every story they carry is of interest to everyone. I'm sure the piece on some opera singer could be held back until lets say next summer.


If CBS did this then this problem of no HD on Sundays wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what you consider marginal. But how is this? Lets say their station is valued at $10 million (I would presume that this is very conservative). A $30k investment is .003% of current value. Now that is truly marginal.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> So if you are talking about a marginal impact, it would seem clear to me that the definition is met by the increased cost and not by the increased functionality.
> 
> 
> Once again, the CBS affiliate doesn't care about the quality of their product.



Does the lack of DD5.1 keep you from seeing or hearing the broadcast your local affiliate provides? DD5.1 is a bonus feature and is why having it makes their product "marginally" better. It's a nice to have feature, but not required to be ATSC compliant. Sure I would like all my shows to be presented in DD5.1, but am I going to stop watching a show that I watched before I got a HDTV/Surround system just because it isn't in DD5.1? No.


You need to step back and look at the big picture. Do you really believe that HDTV owners that also have DD5.1 and are able to get HD delivered to their HDTV are the majority of your affiliate's viewers?


Since the addition of DD5.1 impacts so few viewers and the lack of it doesn't drive viewers away, it is probably a low priority item on their budget.


Here's a bugetary question to put this in perspective. Would you rather they invest in DD5.1 OR in HD time shifiting equipment so their sunday night lineup doesn't get killed due to football? Since we're not on the board of any affiliate we have no idea what their budget is and the funds they have available to invest in new equipment.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does the lack of DD5.1 keep you from seeing or hearing the broadcast your local affiliate provides? DD5.1 is a bonus feature and is why having it makes their product "marginally" better. It's a nice to have feature, but not required to be ATSC compliant. Sure I would like all my shows to be presented in DD5.1, but am I going to stop watching a show that I watched before I got a HDTV/Surround system just because it isn't in DD5.1? No.
> 
> 
> You need to step back and look at the big picture. Do you really believe that HDTV owners that also have DD5.1 and are able to get HD delivered to their HDTV are the majority of your affiliate's viewers?
> 
> 
> Since the addition of DD5.1 impacts so few viewers and the lack of it doesn't drive viewers away, it is probably a low priority item on their budget.
> 
> 
> Here's a bugetary question to put this in perspective. Would you rather they invest in DD5.1 OR in HD time shifiting equipment so their sunday night lineup doesn't get killed due to football? Since we're not on the board of any affiliate we have no idea what their budget is and the funds they have available to invest in new equipment.



I know you and I aren't going to stop watching their shows (assuming we like them) because they aren't in DD 5.1. That is what they depend on. Like I said, they have a quasi monopoly in the Cleveland market and don't care about the quality of their product. Your defense of their decision should make them happy.


I know that HD/DD 5.1 viewers are not the majority of their audience (although it is a constantly increasing percentage). But those viewers also aren't the majority of the market for the other Cleveland network stations, for the 4 national networks, for CBS O&O stations, for DVD providers, etc.; but all of them made the decision to make the investment in DD 5.1 sound. They obviously had the desire to provide a quality product.


I'll answer your budgetary question by asking another question. Why should the improved quality be limited to only one of the two?


No, I'm not on their board and I don't develop/defend their budget. But the issue is what they choose to "make available" and not what they "have available" in the final budget. I'm not blaming the Station Engineer if his budget doesn't included needed equipment upgrades (except for the fact that he may have been a poor "advocate" in the budget formulation process). I am blaming the Geneal Manager and Board if they are the cause for failing to invest in equipment that provides their customers a quality product. They are the "Lone Ranger" in this issue. Their own network and the other Cleveland stations have chosen otherwise.


As a customer, why would you defend the one organization, in an industry providing a product to us, that has chosen to not strive for quality?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's another side of the coin. How about blaming CBS? When FOX goes into the evening with football their programs are "joined in progress." Why not join 60 minutes in progress? Not every story they carry is of interest to everyone. I'm sure the piece on some opera singer could be held back until lets say next summer.
> 
> 
> If CBS did this then this problem of no HD on Sundays wouldn't be a problem.



I totally agree with you. However, 60 Minutes is too "big a deal" on CBS for them to do this. They would have a total revolt in their News Division if that happened. Would impact their ability to sway elections with their biased reporting (e.g., the fake Texas Air National guard memos).


----------



## hookbill

I do base decisions on what show I want to watch based on DD 5.1. Let's say we got a show on NBC that is in HD 5.1. If CBS is offering something else I like and FOX is at the same time as well, the CBS loses. This doesn't happen very often but it happend a few times last year.


And can you just imagine how cool CSI, any of them, would be in Dolby 5.1.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As a customer, why would you defend the one organization, in an industry providing a product to us, that has chosen to not strive for quality?



Because in reality there is little we can do about such problems and I'm providing reasons as to why you shouldn't expect so much from your affiliates.


I'm not saying this problem is limited to you or that I personally am exempt, but we expect companies to provide the best service they can and do it TODAY regardless of cost. There is so much expense in making this transition to digital broadcasts.


I mean, you have to admit since the time you became a member in this forum you've seen vast changes in quality of each of the affiliate's product. I would think you would be aware that it takes time to make these improvements.


I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that's how it is.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Because in reality there is little we can do about such problems and I'm providing reasons as to why you shouldn't expect so much from your affiliates.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying this problem is limited to you or that I personally am exempt, but we expect companies to provide the best service they can and do it TODAY regardless of cost. There is so much expense in making this transition to digital broadcasts.
> 
> 
> I mean, you have to admit since the time you became a member in this forum you've seen vast changes in quality of each of the affiliate's product. I would think you would be aware that it takes time to make these improvements.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that's how it is.



Our "poor little affiliate" is owned by Raycom Media. Below is a recent business article:

MONTGOMERY, Alabama, HOFFMAN ESTATES, Illinois and NEW YORK, New York - August 11, 2006 -- Barrington Broadcasting Group and Raycom Media, Inc announced today that they have completed a transaction for Barrington to acquire twelve Raycom television stations in nine markets for a combined purchase price of $262 million.


All the above stations are in markets significantly smaller than Cleveland. Therefore, I would conservatively estimate that the Cleveland station is worth over $30 million. Raycom still owns around 30 other television stations.


Do you really believe that if Raycom cared about quality they could not afford $30k per station for providing DD 5.1 sound? I seriously doubt it! Barrington would not be paying close to $30 million per station if they are losing money.


Bottom line: We are just unlucky enough in Cleveland to have the CBS affiliate owned by a company that apparently cares everything about profits and apparently little for the quality of their product.


----------



## Telosian

Does anyone know if the HD feeds of CBS on TW cable are in DD 5.1? I'm almost positive they are. Speaking from the production side it is a crying shame all the work and time and money which goes into the mixing of a great 5.1 soundtrack is flushed at the local level. Almost as frustrating as seeing something shot on film and transferred to HD being broadcast in SD because someone is too lazy to flip the right switch in the local control room. Rlb's point is a good one. Audio is important and usually gets too little attention from the local affiliate. How would we feel about about a color show being broadcast in B&W? We would of course be outraged. Audio should be broadcast the way the director created it.


----------



## k2rj

No. That is what was being discussed in the page or so of posts above yours.


----------



## Telosian

On my recording of CSI Miami from last night, recorded from TW cable, the DD Digital light comes on my amplifier and it sounds pretty darn 5.1 to me. Perhaps it is only digital and not Dolby? Is it possible the 5.1 is not broadcast but does pass through on the cable feed?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On my recording of CSI Miami from last night, recorded from TW cable, the DD Digital light comes on my amplifier and it sounds pretty darn 5.1 to me. Perhaps it is only digital and not Dolby? Is it possible the 5.1 is not broadcast but does pass through on the cable feed?



I've been advised that it doesn't happen. You are probably getting DD 2.0.0 and your receiver is taking the two channel signal and mixing one of the forms of pro logic.


----------



## hookbill

Telosian has your package arrived yet?


----------



## ajstan99

Fellow WOW cable subscribers:


I just spoke with WOW customer service to see if there were any plans to make WVIZ-HD available in the near future. According to the CSR, WOW has been unable to reach an agreement with WVIZ, but more customer requests would give WOW the incentive to work harder on finalizing a deal.


So, I guess I'll put out the call-to-action for the WOW subscribers who are interested in WVIZ-HD to contact the company and request the channel be added. It would be great to add that the basic tier of their competitor, Adelphia/TWC, also includes TNT-HD, Discovery HD Theater, and the HD Bonus channel for sports.


Of course, for those of you who may be on satellite or with another cable carrier, but are considering switching to WOW, it wouldn't hurt to drop them a line saying that you would look favorably upon them becoming more comparable with Adelphia/TWC on their basic HD tier including the channels noted above.


Here are links to contact WOW and thanks in advance to those of you who will help.


Request a Channel - Online Form:
http://www1.wowway.com/wowform.asp?questid=channel 


Customer Support:

866-496-9669


----------



## Telosian

Yes, Hookbill, you are nice to ask. It arrived today. I set it up tonight and TW comes out tomorrow for install of cable cards per your instructions.


rlb, there are a lot of dynamics in the track, and a lot of efx coming from the rear speakers. You may in fact be correct and my amp is creating a fake dolby sound field, but I thought the DD Red light only comes on if it is getting true 5.1. I'm curious about if there is a way to test this? I'll check my amp specs and find out if a digital stereo feed will cause the DD 5.1 light to come on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, Hookbill, you are nice to ask. It arrived today. I set it up tonight and TW comes out tomorrow for install of cable cards per your instructions.
> 
> 
> rlb, there are a lot of dynamics in the track, and a lot of efx coming from the rear speakers. You may in fact be correct and my amp is creating a fake dolby sound field, but I thought the DD Red light only comes on if it is getting true 5.1. I'm curious about if there is a way to test this? I'll check my amp specs and find out if a digital stereo feed will cause the DD 5.1 light to come on.



Telosian first congratulations. Hope everything goes well tomorrow. Make sure you hand him the sheet that comes with the S3, it has easy to follow instructions. The help I gave you should be just to make sure he does it correctly.


rlb is correct, WOIO does not broadcast in Dolby 5.1. On my receiver I have a read out and it reads Dolby 2.0 which is why your dolby light is lighting up. It probably lights to any Dolby signal.


If you want to you can put your tv on live at any time of the day and tune to channel 4 (or whatever WOIO is in your area) and you should get a dolby signal there as well. Any digital channel gives out a dolby signal.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fellow WOW cable subscribers:
> 
> 
> I just spoke with WOW customer service to see if there were any plans to make WVIZ-HD available in the near future. According to the CSR, WOW has been unable to reach an agreement with WVIZ, but more customer requests would give WOW the incentive to work harder on finalizing a deal.
> 
> 
> So, I guess I'll put out the call-to-action for the WOW subscribers who are interested in WVIZ-HD to contact the company and request the channel be added. It would be great to add that the basic tier of their competitor, Adelphia/TWC, also includes TNT-HD, Discovery HD Theater, and the HD Bonus channel for sports.
> 
> 
> Of course, for those of you who may be on satellite or with another cable carrier, but are considering switching to WOW, it wouldn't hurt to drop them a line saying that you would look favorably upon them becoming more comparable with Adelphia/TWC on their basic HD tier including the channels noted above.
> 
> 
> Here are links to contact WOW and thanks in advance to those of you who will help.
> 
> 
> Request a Channel - Online Form:
> http://www1.wowway.com/wowform.asp?questid=channel
> 
> 
> Customer Support:
> 
> 866-496-9669



They need to "reach an agreement"? I assumed WOW didn't have WVIZ HD because of WVIZ's wimpy transmitter and WOW not being able to pick up the signal, nor wanting to invest in a fiber feed.


What's strange is WOW lists WOSU-HD (PBS Columbus) in the Cleveland channel lineup on their website, obviously a mistake.

Edit: I see they overhauled the website, and also fixed the channel lineup for Cleveland...


We get TNTHD, DiscoveryHD, FSNOH-HD, and STOHD so I can't really complain about it not being in the basic tier. I would be paying for the HD tier ESPNHD is in anyway...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They need to "reach an agreement"? I assumed WOW didn't have WVIZ HD because of WVIZ's wimpy transmitter and WOW not being able to pick up the signal, nor wanting to invest in a fiber feed.
> 
> 
> What's strange is WOW lists WOSU-HD (PBS Columbus) in the Cleveland channel lineup on their website, obviously a mistake.
> 
> Edit: I see they overhauled the website, and also fixed the channel lineup for Cleveland...




Time Warner (Adelphia) has WVIZ HD as part of their HD packager. Apparently they can hook up directly to the cable company without OTA broadcasting. This is the same thing that WBNX is plainning to do in November.



Also TW list WNEO HD in their listings however it is not available just yet.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEWS chief engineer is John Workman.
> 
> Anyone else notice that WKYC takes a little longer to pop in. I have spoken with Rex, I know him personally and they are aware of the problem. It is a PSIP problem and they do not know how to solve it. Also bad weather does affect their signal more than others. Do not be fooled by claims that digital signals are not affected by rain. They are. Keep this group running!!!
> 
> I do not think anyone in Cleve is broadcasting DD 5.1. If they are let me know.



Cleveland's Fox and NBC stations broadcast 5.1 when it is provided by the network. As noted, ABC will soon join them. Our CBS affiliate could care less.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They need to "reach an agreement"? I assumed WOW didn't have WVIZ HD because of WVIZ's wimpy transmitter and WOW not being able to pick up the signal, nor wanting to invest in a fiber feed.



The CSR's response made it seem like it was a contractual issue between WVIZ and WOW, not a general cost/tech issue (although I'm sure that it would be a concern). In any case, more customer requests would raise the priority, so any calls/e-mails would be appreciated.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We get TNTHD, DiscoveryHD, FSNOH-HD, and STOHD so I can't really complain about it not being in the basic tier.



You're not talking about WOW are you? While STO-HD is part of basic, TNT-HD and Discovery-HD are part of the upper-tier, and FSNOH-HD doesn't show up in the channel list.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's another side of the coin. How about blaming CBS? When FOX goes into the evening with football their programs are "joined in progress." Why not join 60 minutes in progress? Not every story they carry is of interest to everyone. I'm sure the piece on some opera singer could be held back until lets say next summer.
> 
> 
> If CBS did this then this problem of no HD on Sundays wouldn't be a problem.



This is definitly a CBS problem. The delay of network programming is sent via a seperate feed from CBS. It has been mentioned before that CBS can only handle 3 NFL games in HD per week due to lack of capacity at the CBS network master control.


If you look at the CBS NFL schedule they actually carry only 2 NFL games in HD at the same time (i.e. the early game), the 3rd game is a late game (as was the Broncos v Browns). Whenever the late game is a "national" game (or CBS has the double header) it's no problem, everybody gets 60 minuites delayed at the same rate, since NFL viewers will see "bonus" coverage until the final late game ends.


Last Sunday CBS only had a singleheader. WKBN-DT carryed the Steelers in HD (an early game) and WOIO carried the Browns (a late game). 60 Minutes started on time on WKBN-DT and the rest of the evening was in true HD (and DD 5.1) while the WOIO feed was SD all the way










By the way, if you are located inside this circle you may be able to get WKBN-DT OTA in all it's HD and 5.1 glory:


----------



## Telosian

Great post Michael! Map very helpful. I'll try to pull in WKBN. I think it really makes rlb's point that the Youngstown affiliate has 5.1 and the Cleveland station does not. Which would you rather watch and listen to?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great post Michael! Map very helpful. I'll try to pull in WKBN. I think it really makes rlb's point that the Youngstown affiliate has 5.1 and the Cleveland station does not. Which would you rather watch and listen to?



And now that you have an S3 it should be easier for you to do. Many people on the TiVo forum are reporting that reception OTA on the S3 is far superior to anything else out there. Many reporting just a set of rat shack rabbit ears are enough.


----------



## JJkizak

hookbill:

So you are saying the S3 can pick up OTA, & cable? And better than my LG 3510a? I might have to look into that.

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Time Warner (Adelphia) has WVIZ HD as part of their HD packager. Apparently they can hook up directly to the cable company without OTA broadcasting. This is the same thing that WBNX is plainning to do in November.



I once thought the WVIZ HD feed to Adelphia was via fiber, but I believe WVIZ's chief engineer said that Adelphia (now TWC/Cleveland) is picking them up OTA, even with the current signal deficiency.


With a high enough antenna and professional equipment, that should still be possible.


WBNX won't even be putting out an OTA signal until next Spring, so they'll have to do the fiber thing if they're planning on showing up on TWC or other cable companies in the next week or two...


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last Sunday CBS only had a singleheader. WKBN-DT carryed the Steelers in HD (an early game) and WOIO carried the Browns (a late game). 60 Minutes started on time on WKBN-DT and the rest of the evening was in true HD (and DD 5.1) while the WOIO feed was SD all the way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, if you are located inside this circle you may be able to get WKBN-DT OTA in all it's HD and 5.1 glory:



As word gets out about the possibility of Cleveland, Akron and Canton viewers being able to pick up WKBN-DT, does anyone think WOIO-DT will respond by increasing their power and switching to a UHF frequency in 2009? Will WKBN-DT's footprint significantly cut into WOIO-DT's viewership numbers?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill:
> 
> So you are saying the S3 can pick up OTA, & cable? And better than my LG 3510a? I might have to look into that.
> 
> JJK



I haven't tried OTA myself because my wife is anti antennae. But from what I'm reading on the TiVo boards and reviews I've read on the internet it has the best OTA reception of any STB out there on the market. As I said, people are reporting great OTA reception with cheap rabbit ears. And yes you can have both OTA and cable at the same time.


In addition it comes with a program guide for OTA so if you make that selection you can do dual recordings OTA. Or you can record cable and OTA. OTA is a great back up if the cable goes out too.


Pretty cool, huh?


----------



## JJkizak

hookbill:

Yeah. But silently wondering if it works as a tuner also and I'm into anything that improves the OTA performance. If I want to record anything I use the MY-HD 120 card which performs flawlessly at 720P. I did briefly check their (S3)website but 700 bucks is substantial. I do not have cable.


JJK


----------



## jtscherne

Raycom owns WTOL (Toledo CBS affiliate) and they have DD 5.1. ( I know because I can get them during atmospheric skips)





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Our "poor little affiliate" is owned by Raycom Media. Below is a recent business article:
> 
> MONTGOMERY, Alabama, HOFFMAN ESTATES, Illinois and NEW YORK, New York - August 11, 2006 -- Barrington Broadcasting Group and Raycom Media, Inc announced today that they have completed a transaction for Barrington to acquire twelve Raycom television stations in nine markets for a combined purchase price of $262 million.
> 
> 
> All the above stations are in markets significantly smaller than Cleveland. Therefore, I would conservatively estimate that the Cleveland station is worth over $30 million. Raycom still owns around 30 other television stations.
> 
> 
> Do you really believe that if Raycom cared about quality they could not afford $30k per station for providing DD 5.1 sound? I seriously doubt it! Barrington would not be paying close to $30 million per station if they are losing money.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: We are just unlucky enough in Cleveland to have the CBS affiliate owned by a company that apparently cares everything about profits and apparently little for the quality of their product.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hookbill:
> 
> Yeah. But silently wondering if it works as a tuner also and I'm into anything that improves the OTA performance. If I want to record anything I use the MY-HD 120 card which performs flawlessly at 720P. I did briefly check their (S3)website but 700 bucks is substantial. I do not have cable.
> 
> 
> JJK



Yes, you can use it as just a tuner as well. Several people do just that. But you can record with it as well if you desire, it is the only tuner that is THX rated and its encoding is excellent. It allows you to choose which mode you want to record/recieve in. However as you say for just a tuner it is awful expensive.


----------



## rRooster

hdsportsguide shows tonight's Cavs Game being broadcast on HDnet Regionally . Anyone know if Time Warner will be showing the Feed? I know in the past HDnet wasn't shown because of no contract with NBA channel; but now we have NBA channel.


It looks like if we don't see the game on HDNet we won't get to see it at all


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hdsportsguide shows tonight's Cavs Game being broadcast on HDnet Regionally . Anyone know if Time Warner will be showing the Feed? I know in the past HDnet wasn't shown because of no contract with NBA channel; but now we have NBA channel.
> 
> 
> It looks like if we don't see the game on HDNet we won't get to see it at all



It's not on Zap2it.com's listings for this evening. I'd say it's not being shown here.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Raycom owns WTOL (Toledo CBS affiliate) and they have DD 5.1. ( I know because I can get them during atmospheric skips)



WTOL became part of Raycom around a year ago. Prior to that it was part of Liberty Corp which merged with Raycom. Believe the DD 5.1 implementation was prior to the merger. Bottom line: Raycom did not approve the expenditure for DD 5.1.


By the way, the following CBS programs are provided with DD 5.1 by the network:

Close to Home

Cold Case

Criminal Minds

CSI: Crime Scene Investigation

CSI: Miami

CSI: NY

Ghost Whisperer

How I Met Your Mother

NCIS

Numb3rs

Still Standing

The Courier

The King of Queens

The New Adventures of Old Christine

The Unit

Two and a Half Men

Without a Trace


Thanks to cheap WOIO/Raycom, we get to hear them in low tech stereo.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As word gets out about the possibility of Cleveland, Akron and Canton viewers being able to pick up WKBN-DT, does anyone think WOIO-DT will respond by increasing their power and switching to a UHF frequency in 2009? Will WKBN-DT's footprint significantly cut into WOIO-DT's viewership numbers?



Unfortunately the vast majority of television viewers still are not set-up for digital OTA, nor will they ever be if the cable systems have their way. The only way for WKBN to cut into WOIO's viewership is if the word gets out that digital OTA rocks and a cheap digital tuner (and a great antenna to go with it) his the market - soon.


As far as WOIO-DT upping thier power - forgetaboutit! As long as they insist on staying on Rf ch 10 they are stuck, thanks to Canada's slow ASTC roll-out. Raycom has already booted WBNS off ch 10 in Columbus (that is WBNS is not being allowed to put their digital signal on Rf ch 10 after the transition ends). WBNS was on ch 10 DECADES before WOIO even existed. It's a shame WOIO / Raycom chose this unnecssary tactic to get a "high VHF" frequency where their power bill won't be as high as the compitition. Ultimately they have shot themselves in the foot because CFPL-TV 10 (London Ontario) is not going away anytime soon, not even after the U.S.A. shuts off the analog signals.


WOIO is better off on 19 from a market standpoint. That way all the major network stations would be near each other in the RF spectrum: WEWS 15, WKYC 17, WOIO 19... That makes too much sense, and as we have seen before there is not much sense going around at WOIO.


One more thing about WOIO and taking market share: Anybody notice that one of their remote weather reporting stations is in Cardington, OH? Where is Cardington, you say? Why in the Columbus DMA! There is no way their piddly Rf 10 digital signal is going to make it anywhere near Mansfield, let alone one county farther away. They obviously have viewers down there watching their analog signal (or via cable on a significantly-viewed status) why else did they bother to put up a weather reporting site there? They cannot complain if they loose viewers to WKBN as long as they are courting viewers in Morrow County.


They can stop Dish Network from delivering out-of-market signals, however they cannot stop us from watching OTA!


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Raycom owns WTOL (Toledo CBS affiliate) and they have DD 5.1. ( I know because I can get them during atmospheric skips)



I know the engineer at WTOL. The reason they have DD 5.1 is that they had it prior to being bought by Raycom.

Raycom did not put in 5.1 at the station.

So please do not get your hopes up for our WOIO.

Sorry to douse everyone's hopes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know the engineer at WTOL. The reason they have DD 5.1 is that they had it prior to being bought by Raycom.
> 
> Raycom did not put in 5.1 at the station.
> 
> So please do not get your hopes up for our WOIO.
> 
> Sorry to douse everyone's hopes.




It may not happen this year or even the next 5 years but eventually they will go to DD 5.1. Why do I say that? Because I honestly don't think that CBS is going to put up with it. Networks have a lot of power with their affiliates and eventually CBS will drop the hammer. Specially if WEWS hooks up DD 5.1, and I kind of believe that when I see it.


----------



## Telosian

rlb, I share your pain on the local CBS situation and am trying to pull in WTOL or WKBN (so far not much luck). On the positive side, which shows do you watch where you really enjoy the 5.1 soundtrack? I think all of us would enjoy your list of favorites. Let's give some credit and attention to the folks (both producers and broadcasters) doing it right.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> rlb, I share your pain on the local CBS situation and am trying to pull in WTOL or WKBN (so far not much luck). On the positive side, which shows do you watch where you really enjoy the 5.1 soundtrack? I think all of us would enjoy your list of favorites. Let's give some credit and attention to the folks (both producers and broadcasters) doing it right.




Following provides shows broadcast in DD 5.1 as of Aug 2006 (so doesn't include new Fall 2006 shows):
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...ngs.html#shows 


I believe DD 5.1 obviously adds more to the action/drama shows. For some reason the above site does not list Fox shows. It definitely adds a lot with "24" and I think they do a pretty good job on "Prison Break". Some of the best is with the HBO original programming like the "Sopranos" and "Deadwood" was great. "Rome" should be starting again pretty soon.


However, I believe one of the keys with DD 5.1 is that even on programming like the sit coms, everything is a little "sharper" than what PLII provides with it's mixing process.


I hate to "beat a dead horse"; but unfortunately I like a lot of the CBS programming. It's a shame we can't enjoy the DD 5.1 here in Cleveland because our affiliate is too cheap to transmit the sound provided by the network.


----------



## HD MM

Anyone know if Dish Network is close to adding HD locals to the Cleveland market?


I currently have HD OTA locals but would prefer to have a backup when the signal is interupted.


Direct TV just doesn't offer enough HD for me to stay. My patience through with them.


----------



## lefkas

Looks like local football fans who can get WKBN-DT will have a good array of choices this weekend. At 1 pm, they will have their pick of [email protected] on WOIO-19, [email protected] Philadelphia on WKBN-27 or Atlanta at Cincinnati on FOX-8. All these games will be in HD. At 4 pm, if you can't stomach the Browns-Jets game on Ch. 19, Ch. 27 will be carrying the Pittsburgh at Oakland contest. Unfortunately, neither of these late games will be in HD. Regardless, there will be 5 games to choose from. Not bad.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like local football fans who can get WKBN-DT will have a good array of choices this weekend. At 1 pm, they will have their pick of [email protected] on WOIO-19, [email protected] Philadelphia on WKBN-27 or Atlanta at Cincinnati on FOX-8. All these games will be in HD. At 4 pm, if you can't stomach the Browns-Jets game on Ch. 19, Ch. 27 will be carrying the Pittsburgh at Oakland contest. Unfortunately, neither of these late games will be in HD. Regardless, there will be 5 games to choose from. Not bad.



Thanks. You beat me to posting the weekly update.

The Browns fans in Youngstown who can't get WOIO will not be too happy.


----------



## Telosian

Nice link on the dolby shows, rlb. I do love the audio on Prison Break. Of all the shows I have heard Sopranos is superb. Las Vegas also has a very true dolby track with all the dialog in the center and only in the center channel. I did a little test with a recording of Numb3rs (CBS). It is a very well mixed show with lots of bass response and bass effects. When I disconnected the center channel there was a lot of dialog bleed into the L & R channels. This proves your point about the corruption of the original 5.1 sent as digital stereo then re-dolby effected through the at home amp. The digital signal gives a lot of nice dynamics but all the separation of the discrete channels is corrupted. I want to do some tests with Studio 60 where I find the mix very muddy. I'm surprised it is on the 5.1 list. I look forward to doing the same with Las Vegas when it airs later this week. So far I have not been able to pull in WKBN which is a crying shame.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Telosian, where do you live? Can you put up a rooftop antenna? WKBN-DT reaches all the way to Strongsville according to the FCC coverage map (see link in one of my previous posts above #6854). It even reaches into Lake Erie on the east side! It appears to cover all of the City of Cleveland proper, except that you would need a very high antenna unless you are already on high ground. Here in Parma the elevation average is 1100' above sea level, down in the city it's only around 550'. Don't even think about using an indoor antenna, this station is ~ 56 miles from here.


----------



## losers

I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.

I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *losers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
> 
> I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions



call a professional. Many people here have used Cleveland Antenna and have been very satisfied. 440-237-6888

Jim West


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *losers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
> 
> I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions



Have you ever tried it without the preamp?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *losers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
> 
> I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions



The obvious thing here is to make sure that you have a VHF/UHF antenna and that it is not UHF ONLY. That being said, WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT are definitely the digital problem children in this market. WKYC-DT suffers from being on low VHF where it is prone to electrical interference and interference from out-of-market analog signals from Pittsburgh and Detroit and WOIO-DT has the problem of fairly low power and interference from the analog London, Ontario station.


I have been having good luck with WKYC-DT lately - most of the time I am getting a good solid signal. Most of the summer was a different story, however. I would get WKYC-DT for a few days and then it would disappear for a few weeks.


It does seem that these two digitals require the antennna to be aimed more precisely, though. After verifying that you do have a VHF/UHF antenna, you may want to try tweaking its position a little bit.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Anybody else notice that the audio and video on WEAO-DT have been out-of-sync this week? Not sure when it started, but I first noticed it a couple of days ago. Its pretty noticeable. I'm not sure if Don Freeman from PBS45&49 still checks in here, but if he does, he might want to give his Engineering Department a heads up on this.


----------



## Telosian

I'm in Gates Mills and am using a rooftop antenna with a rotor. I bypassed the preamp today to see if that made any difference and it did not. WKYC and the "parma" tower stations come in at 90+ on the Tivo antenna signal strength meter (pretty cool with audio feedback). I turn the antenna to I think where Youngstown should be but I can't get the signal meter to "stick." I get occaisional blips at about 21. The antenna is over 20 years old, but it is pulling in the other stations fine.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Gates Mills and am using a rooftop antenna with a rotor. I bypassed the preamp today to see if that made any difference and it did not. WKYC and the "parma" tower stations come in at 90+ on the Tivo antenna signal strength meter (pretty cool with audio feedback). I turn the antenna to I think where Youngstown should be but I can't get the signal meter to "stick." I get occaisional blips at about 21. The antenna is over 20 years old, but it is pulling in the other stations fine.



Youngstown would be ESE of Gates Mills, just a shade past due East. Unless you are in the Chagrin Valley you should be on fairly high ground. Do you know your elevation? (I found mine on Google Earth)


Are you tuned to the correct channel? WKBN-DT is on Rf ch 41. WFMJ is on Rf ch 20 and WYTV is on Rf 36 (this last one is the weakest). Have you tried "sweeping" for the signal to peak with your rotor?


----------



## Telosian

Thanks for the help Michael P, I'll look again with your directions


----------



## Telosian

I don't know what my elevation is but I am not in the valley. I tried again to get a signal from 41.1 and 41.2 and still no luck. Perhaps I am doing something incorrectly but the rotor is doing a great job and I can fine tune the other channels coming from the west. I wonder if anyone else in the Gates Mills vicinity is able to pull in WKBN-DT?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what my elevation is but I am not in the valley. I tried again to get a signal from 41.1 and 41.2 and still no luck. Perhaps I am doing something incorrectly but the rotor is doing a great job and I can fine tune the other channels coming from the west. I wonder if anyone else in the Gates Mills vicinity is able to pull in WKBN-DT?



I believe that from Gates Mills to Youngstown you have the ridge in Newbury in the way. That's probably keeping you from getting the signal.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that from Gates Mills to Youngstown you have the ridge in Newbury in the way. That's probably keeping you from getting the signal.



I had a similar problem when I lived in Seven Hills with the Akron stations. Richfield was in the way (200' higher than I was). I has some success by moving my antenna laterally. I was able to find a small "window" in the obstruction by moving my antenna a few feet east of where it was mounted. This is easier to do with an analog station. WFMJ 21 seems to be the strongest of the Youngstown analogs. If you can get a half-decent picture on 21 (some snow but no ghosts) that would be the spot to start trying for the digitals.


Good luck!


----------



## rlb

Contrary to some recent posts, the Browns game on WOIO extended past 7:00 and therefore all primetime shows were delayed. However, the shows were broadcast in HD (same as if the Browns game had not run beyond it's scheduled timeframe).


Guess this means that WOIO has merely forgotten to "flip the switch" on prior Sundays; or they just purchased equipment capable of providing the "delay" of network programming.


----------



## Telosian

Thanks for the suggestions. I bet you are correct about Newbury being in the way. I'll try for 21 and go from there. By the way Vegas in 5.1 through the THX circutry of the Tivo S3 sounded incredible! Only makes the digital heart beat stronger for 5.1 on CBS.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Contrary to some recent posts, the Browns game on WOIO extended past 7:00 and therefore all primetime shows were delayed. However, the shows were broadcast in HD (same as if the Browns game had not run beyond it's scheduled timeframe).
> 
> 
> Guess this means that WOIO has merely forgotten to "flip the switch" on prior Sundays; or they just purchased equipment capable of providing the "delay" of network programming.



In previous weeks WOIO was running CBS Sunday prime-time programs delayed while WKBN ran CBS on time (WKBN even had the CBS Evening News while WOIO did not have any news). WKBN was in HD WOIO was in SD. This happened several times, usually when CBS has the "singleheader" and WOIO has the late game and WKBN has the early game. Early game = no delay of prime time.


So what you are saying is WOIO was in HD last week? Of course it would since CBS had the doubleheader - every CBS affilliate had a late game, and therefore delayed by the same rate (that is why you sometimes see "bonus coverage" of other games until the last game ends). So the one HD "pipeline" that CBS has for primetime shows was available to all.


The delay is done @ CBS not at WOIO. Even though CBS can generate 2 HD feeds simultaneously, they are live game feeds. Delaying the entire prime time schedule in HD is a bit trickier. They should be able to handle this some day, just not yet.


----------



## HD MM

So is tonight's Cav's game being broadcast on ESPN HD in the Cleveland market? Or is it blacked out since it is also being broadcast locally on WUAB 43 and FSN Ohio?


----------



## rRooster

I'm not sure, but here's to hoping we don't have to watch Cavs in crap-o-vision, especially after I got to experience the great looking HD on TNT last night.

I know that the HD bonus channel on Time Warner shows the next scheduled game on the 7th, so it will not be in HD on the Bonus channel.


Cross your fingers for cavs not blocked out on ESPN!


----------



## jtscherne

From the page linked below:


"There will be no local blackouts for ESPN game coverage. The agreement includes extensions of pre-existing deals between ESPN and the NBA covering ESPN Radio, ESPN Classic, ESPN.com, and the NBDL."


The link:
http://www.nba.com/news/tv_contract_020122.html 


It was a six-year deal, so still should be in effect.


----------



## rRooster

Thanks for the post on the agreement with ESPN;

Anyone have any info regarding Cavs games that are going to be broadcast on TNT?


----------



## jtscherne

There's a TNT section in that same agreement linked in my message. That would be a good place to start...


EDIT:

The agreement doesn't mention blackouts for TNT, but TNT has exclusivity (sort of like ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball) for at least some of their games, so I assume those games would not also be on local tv.


----------



## rlb

I'm going through one of my phases where I am unhappy with D*.


Does anyone use WOW? If so, what model HD DVR do they use? Are you happy with it and do you know if it has SATA enabled?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm going through one of my phases where I am unhappy with D*.
> 
> 
> Does anyone use WOW? If so, what model HD DVR do they use? Are you happy with it and do you know if it has SATA enabled?



I have WOW at home and D* at the office. I can tell you the HD PQ on WOW blows away D*. I don't know how people can stand to watch live sporting events on D* with all the compression/macroblocking/artifacting. The only reason I have D* is because there's no cable available at my office location.


On WOW I have the SA8300HD DVR running SARA. I made a homebrew SATA drive and plugged it in and got nothing. It might work with the "official" Maxtor SATA drive, but I dunno. Firewire is not enabled. FWIW, when the tech installed the SA8300HD a couple months ago, he had never heard of anyone using an external drive with it. WOW seems to be very conservative about pushing SARA software updates. I think we're running a year old version of SARA, whereas I have seen other cable systems pushing out newer firewire and SATA enabled versions.


WOW is not carrying the local channels QAM in-the-clear, however it appears that TWC is. A little birdie tells me you can negotiate with the WOW reps to get an extra free HD receiver or equivalent discounts if you complain about this. The competition with TWC in the Cleveland market is a good thing. When ATT starts UVerse service later in the year, competition should get even better.


WOW customer service has always been excellent.


My only beef is they don't do QAM in the clear HD locals and they don't have ESPN2HD or the INHD's. No WVIZ HD yet. They don't have SHOHD either if that's important to you. You do get STARZHD with the HD package however.


Edit: I should also add I don't do a whole lot of DVR'ing, maybe one HD show a week of a special concert or football game or something. Haven't had any problems with the SA8300HD locking up or rebooting. I can live with the user interface. The TIVO fans hate the SARA user interface however...


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm going through one of my phases where I am unhappy with D*.




Rlb, I too am fed up with D* and I am switching to E* for the following reasons:


1) D*'s DVR's are lousy. My current R15 didn't record half the shows I set it to.

2) It freezes up frequently and I have to reboot it constantly.

3) Super slow browser/interface. Very annoying!

4) I recently bought a HD TV and want to upgrade to an HD DVR. D*s HR20's have received abysmal reviews and am no way going to chance using their beta equipment.

5) E*s DVR (VIP622) has received much better reviews and other owners who have had both vouch for the VIP622 over the HR20.

6) E* has WAY more HD channels. 27 not counting locals!

7) I have heard E*s PQ is better than D*s.

8) Sick of waiting for more HD and broken promises from Rupert.

9) An HD package from E* is cheaper than a similar one from cable.

10) I didn't have to sign a lifetime contract and pay $500 for a HD DVR like I would have with D*. Try $200 with a $20 credit for the next 10 months, which makes it FREE and no commitment contract!


Installation for my new VIP622 is this Sunday. Can't wait!


Good TV, better TV? I think not! Good riddance Rupert, Hello Charlie!


----------



## hookbill

Don't get too excited about that DVR. TiVo won a law suit for stealing their patent. They may get yanked.


----------



## rlb

Paule123, thanks for the excellent input. I've been using the HD Tivo since they came out and have been very happy with it. Since I get most of my HD via OTA antenna, I've been satisfied with the quality. However, If they don't get the HR 20-250 working properly, and don't move away from their HD Lite (I do watch some HD on the premium channels) in the next year; I'll definitely look for the best alternative. Only thing stopping me from changing right now is the HD Tivo is probably still the best thing available. I won't buy an S3 until they have two way communications with the cable cards; and the SA 8300 HD and E*'s DVR get "beat up" consistently on the Forums.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I won't buy an S3 until they have two way communications with the cable cards; and the SA 8300 HD and E*'s DVR get "beat up" consistently on the Forums.



The S3 is the best thing going. But if your waiting for it to have a two way cable card, you won't be getting an S3. It is not designed for a two way cable card. Therefore it will always be a one way cable card.


The only reason you need the two way card is if you use On Demand or pay per view. If those are big in your viewing needs then it will have to be something else.


----------



## EricG

The HR10 with TiVo is more solid a machine than anything E* has ever put out. I love mine.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rlb, I too am fed up with D* and I am switching to E* for the following reasons:
> 
> 
> 1) D*'s DVR's are lousy. My current R15 didn't record half the shows I set it to.
> 
> 2) It freezes up frequently and I have to reboot it constantly.
> 
> 3) Super slow browser/interface. Very annoying!
> 
> 4) I recently bought a HD TV and want to upgrade to an HD DVR. D*s HR20's have received abysmal reviews and am no way going to chance using their beta equipment.
> 
> 5) E*s DVR (VIP622) has received much better reviews and other owners who have had both vouch for the VIP622 over the HR20.
> 
> 6) E* has WAY more HD channels. 27 not counting locals!
> 
> 7) I have heard E*s PQ is better than D*s.
> 
> 8) Sick of waiting for more HD and broken promises from Rupert.
> 
> 9) An HD package from E* is cheaper than a similar one from cable.
> 
> 10) I didn't have to sign a lifetime contract and pay $500 for a HD DVR like I would have with D*. Try $200 with a $20 credit for the next 10 months, which makes it FREE and no commitment contract!
> 
> 
> Installation for my new VIP622 is this Sunday. Can't wait!
> 
> 
> Good TV, better TV? I think not! Good riddance Rupert, Hello Charlie!


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The S3 is the best thing going. But if your waiting for it to have a two way cable card, you won't be getting an S3. It is not designed for a two way cable card. Therefore it will always be a one way cable card.
> 
> 
> The only reason you need the two way card is if you use On Demand or pay per view. If those are big in your viewing needs then it will have to be something else.



I should have said the replacement for the S3.


For some reason, I also thought that the lack of 2 way communications also decreased the effectiveness of the Guide. However, I just did a quick scan on DBS Talk and can't substantiate that issue.


We don't use pay per view. However, "on demand" appears to be a growing capability and maybe it may be significant in the next year or two.


Bottom line: Thanks for the input. The S3 is on my "radar screen" again if I finally run out of patience with D*. I have a choice available in N. Royalton. I could go with either TWC (currently use them for internet) or WOW.


Oops. An edit. Now I remember why I wanted two way communications. The cable companies are moving toward a technology that only transmits certain stations to all homes (I forget the name but it is discussed extensively on the forums). The rest are held until requested by someone. This frees up bandwidth. This requires that the set top box (read S3 or it's replacement) be capable of communicating back "up stream" (i.e., two way communications). The S3 doesn't work on systems that have already implemented the technology and will cease to function properly if your cable company implements in the future.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

Hello,


I am an old Adelphia, now TWC customer in Columbia Station (next to Strongsville). My SA8300HD DVR is running SARA 1.87.23.1. I believe I have seen that there are new versions out there. Is TWC going to update? Can I call them and ask for an update?


I'm close to getting a Mits 57831, or a Sony KDS55A2000, and I want to make sure I have the latest and greatest feeding it


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am an old Adelphia, now TWC customer in Columbia Station (next to Strongsville). My SA8300HD DVR is running SARA 1.87.23.1. I believe I have seen that there are new versions out there. Is TWC going to update? Can I call them and ask for an update?
> 
> 
> I'm close to getting a Mits 57831, or a Sony KDS55A2000, and I want to make sure I have the latest and greatest feeding it
> 
> 
> Thanks.



A while back when they were still Adelphia they updated to 1.88.XX.X. This had a few additonal features like a faster fast foward (4 speed) and a couple of other things that I don't recall. Unfortunately there was an encodeing problem which was really Fox's fault but they panicked and kicked back to your current version. They haven't changed since.


This is my opinion but unless they unify their system and go with either passport or SARA software you probably won't see any changes. Another problem is their guide data does not show if a programs is new or repeat. So your really stuck with a DVR that doesn't stand much chance in the near future of upgrade.


There is something you can do to get a better DVR, and that's the TiVo S3 but you will not have pay per view or on demand if you go that way.


If you call them up I'm sure they will tell you that an upgrade is planned either a. in the near future or b. at the start of the next month. Trust me, if you really want to know what's going on come here, we know more then any of their CSR's plus we got at least one person who feeds us a little inside info, like we know that WNEO HD and Universal HD are coming but we don't know when. Most of the CSR's can't even answer simple questions, like how come WNEO is on the list of HD channels available but we haven't got it yet.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Most of the CSR's can't even answer simple questions, like how come WNEO is on the list of HD channels available but we haven't got it yet.



Tell the CSRs to spread the word that WNEO/WEAO is not on in HD because it hasn't put up HD programming again, yet.


----------



## lefkas

What's with WKBN-HD's sound on its OTA signal ? I tried to watch CSI: Miami on Saturday night and all I got was the background sound effects and music. No dialogue from the characters. CSI on Thursday night had the same problem until the first commercial break and the Bengals game on Sunday had stadium sounds but no announcers for part of the first quarter as well. Does this have anything to do with broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's with WKBN-HD's sound on its OTA signal ? I tried to watch CSI: Miami on Saturday night and all I got was the background sound effects and music. No dialogue from the characters. CSI on Thursday night had the same problem until the first commercial break and the Bengals game on Sunday had stadium sounds but no announcers for part of the first quarter as well. Does this have anything to do with broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 ?



Yes it does. You were not getting the middle track. I've seen this happen from time to time on other 5.1 stations. This isn't your fault.


If this happens again you can always turn on closed captioning. Not as nice but at least you can watch.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's with WKBN-HD's sound on its OTA signal ? I tried to watch CSI: Miami on Saturday night and all I got was the background sound effects and music. No dialogue from the characters. CSI on Thursday night had the same problem until the first commercial break and the Bengals game on Sunday had stadium sounds but no announcers for part of the first quarter as well. Does this have anything to do with broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 ?



The chief engineer at WKBN posted an acknowledgement of the problem in the Youngstown thread.


----------



## CCDeVille




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help Michael P, I'll look again with your directions



Do you get anything from the analog Y-town stations?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CCDeVille* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you get anything from the analog Y-town stations?



I get the analog WFMJ-TV 21 fairly well. I don't bother with WKBN-TV because I get the digital signal virtually 24/7 (I have experienced "micro- dropouts" from time to time where the audio cuts off for a second or less). The last windsorrm moved the mast of my Youngstown antenna slightly downward. I have to get up on the roof to fix it. Even with the antenna mis-aimed I still get a viewable picture on both analog 21 and digital 27.


By the way CC, whee you asking me or Telosian?


I'm on fairly high ground, so others wh may be closer to Youngstown may not be as lucky as I am in getting the Youngstown stations. WKBN-DT happens to have a large coverage area - I'm "inside the circle" on the FCC map. I'm outside the circle for all the Youngstown analogs as well as the rest of their digitals.


One neat thing about geting WKBN-DT 57 miles from the transmitter is their subchannel WYFX. That station is actually 2 LPTV stations in the analog world. They barely cover the City Of Youngsown and the City of Mercer, PA.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I am an old Adelphia, now TWC customer in Columbia Station (next to Strongsville). My SA8300HD DVR is running SARA 1.87.23.1. I believe I have seen that there are new versions out there. Is TWC going to update? Can I call them and ask for an update?
> 
> 
> I'm close to getting a Mits 57831, or a Sony KDS55A2000, and I want to make sure I have the latest and greatest feeding it
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Firmware is produced by the STB manufacturers (S/A, Motorola) and is then turned over to the cable operators. The cable operators generally test in-house prior to release, and then they push the firmware out to everyone once it's been deemed as stable. This is typically done as a global background process and everyone gets it auto-magically. It's counterproductive to pester an operator for a "newer" release; the newest stable release is always delivered when it's ready.


----------



## yespage

Don't forget to vote today. All those guys with R's next to their name hate Dolby 5.1 and want to legislate color back out of tv.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't forget to vote today. All those guys with R's next to their name hate Dolby 5.1 and want to legislate color back out of tv.



And all the guys with D's want to tax it.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And all the guys with D's want to tax it.



The argument that taxes are bad rarely comes with another solution to pay for it. Was that confucius?


Anyway, back to our regular topic. Anyone noticed a new weather channel (like we need another one) is popping up on 33.3? It's still blank but has a strong signal and "weather" as the title.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The argument that taxes are bad rarely comes with another solution to pay for it. Was that confucius?
> 
> 
> Anyway, back to our regular topic. Anyone noticed a new weather channel (like we need another one) is popping up on 33.3? It's still blank but has a strong signal and "weather" as the title.



Actually it was a joke, not an argument.










I'm just a little loopy form everything going on here.


----------



## hookbill

Both of you guys, knock off the political conversation. It's simply not allowed here and since we know no one comes into this thread to monitor it it simply shouldn't occurre no matter how correct kinglerch is.

















Them R boys are going down tonight.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Both of you guys, knock off the political conversation. It's simply not allowed here and since we know no one comes into this thread to monitor it it simply shouldn't occurre no matter how correct kinglerch is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Them R boys are going down tonight.




Awww geee


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And all the guys with D's want to tax it.



Of course... we all know Gore invented Dolby Digital... and the environment.


----------



## yespage

Did ABC have issues a couple days ago. I couldn't get it down in Akron. Usually one of my best receptions.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did ABC have issues a couple days ago. I couldn't get it down in Akron. Usually one of my best receptions.



Could you be more specific as to the time of day? I live right by the transmitter and have not noticed anything wrong. Last year WEWS had some problems with thier digital signal that even I could see.


The only digital OTA that I noticed was off the air recently was WOAC (I know no great loss). The station has been sold so I monitor it from time to time to see if the programming has changed. BTW: the price tags on those coins are







$6,999.00 marked down to $4,999.00 for 3 $50 gold pieces.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Could you be more specific as to the time of day? I live right by the transmitter and have not noticed anything wrong. Last year WEWS had some problems with thier digital signal that even I could see.
> 
> 
> The only digital OTA that I noticed was off the air recently was WOAC (I know no great loss). The station has been sold so I monitor it from time to time to see if the programming has changed. BTW: the price tags on those coins are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $6,999.00 marked down to $4,999.00 for 3 $50 gold pieces.



From my understanding, WOAC won't be changing their programming for at least a while (like months to over a year). I remember reading this somewhere, but I forget where.


----------



## rRooster

everyone probably knows....


but if you haven't checked out the NBA on TNT yet the Cavs are playing tonight


The picture from TNT looks GREAT for basketball!


(Time Warner SA8300 on Samsung HLS-6187)


----------



## DCSholtis

Anyone with D* still notice the "8mm filmed look" to WOIO on the MPEG-4 feed. Noticed the same problem with WKYC has been fixed which is good but still seeing this on CBS 19 makes me glad D* doesnt black out the HD feeds on Super Fan. Anyone know how to contact the engineer at 19? Thanks.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The argument that taxes are bad rarely comes with another solution to pay for it. Was that confucius?
> 
> 
> Anyway, back to our regular topic. Anyone noticed a new weather channel (like we need another one) is popping up on 33.3? It's still blank but has a strong signal and "weather" as the title.



How about get the government out of the "spend money on everything" business so we don't have to "pay" for it?


----------



## geocab

I'm not receiving WOIO 19, am I the only one? I wanted to watch CSI, but not signal.


Thanks.

George


----------



## ajstan99

I'm getting 19-1 and 19-2 full strength OTA.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> everyone probably knows....
> 
> 
> but if you haven't checked out the NBA on TNT yet the Cavs are playing tonight
> 
> 
> The picture from TNT looks GREAT for basketball!
> 
> 
> (Time Warner SA8300 on Samsung HLS-6187)



I am seeing a lot of macroblocking on the closeup shots when the players move down the court quickly. Watching on WOW cable on 42" HD plasma and SA8300HD.


Curious if anyone else is seeing this. Please say size and type of display. Thanks.


----------



## ksh937

I tried searching this thread, but I'm sure I probably missed it among the 230 pages...


Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. Also, from a 45 degree angle (i.e. to the left / right of the tv) the picture is really dark, but I don't think it should be that way (at least not THAT dark).


Any help would be appreciated.


THanks!


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried searching this thread, but I'm sure I probably missed it among the 230 pages...
> 
> 
> Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. Also, from a 45 degree angle (i.e. to the left / right of the tv) the picture is really dark, but I don't think it should be that way (at least not THAT dark).
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> THanks!



Chad B. at the following site calibrated my Sony 60" SXRD last January:
http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/ 


Chad is based in Dayton; but travels frequently to the Cleveland area. He is a contributor on the AVS forums and did an excellent job with the SXRD. I imagine that he also does lots of Samsungs.


I wouldn't think that your picture should darken significantly at 45 degrees; but DLP users would be more familiar with the characteristics. My old Mits CRT HD RPTV did darken at that angle; but the SXRD is good until about 60 degrees. Your owners manual probably shows a diagram for optimal picture.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried searching this thread, but I'm sure I probably missed it among the 230 pages...
> 
> 
> Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. Also, from a 45 degree angle (i.e. to the left / right of the tv) the picture is really dark, but I don't think it should be that way (at least not THAT dark).
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> THanks!



The ISF website http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm lists several certified techs in the Cleveland area. Take your pick. I would call them and make sure they have experience with your particular display unit.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it.



I have my Samsungs calibrated by Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio/Video Consultants . He is a nationally know calibrator who really knows what he's doing. Do a google search for his name and, among other things, you'll find:

Recommendations 


That he teaches courses in ISF calibration 


That he also is a moderator in the Home Theater Forum's "Display Devices (TVs/Projectors)" section, and posts regularly here at AVS as well as many other forums.


He is due here in Cleveland sometime this month to calibrate my 5687. If intrerested, you might use the form at the bottom of Lion A/V's web page to ask if you could be included in his tour.


EDIT: Be cautious about using a local calibrator (ChadB is *NOT* a local calibrator [unless you live in Dayton, in which case you may completely disregard this warning]. He comes highly recommended here on the forum). I had a local guy do a Samsung of mine, and he didn't really know what he was doing. I've also been warned against another local calibrator for the same reason.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> EDIT: Be cautious about using a local calibrator (ChadB is *NOT* a local calibrator [unless you live in Dayton, in which case you may completely disregard this warning]. He comes highly recommended here on the forum). I had a local guy do a Samsung of mine, and he didn't really know what he was doing. I've also been warned against another local calibrator for the same reason.



Was this local calibrator you used ISF trained?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> EDIT: Be cautious about using a local calibrator (ChadB is *NOT* a local calibrator [unless you live in Dayton, in which case you may completely disregard this warning]. He comes highly recommended here on the forum). I had a local guy do a Samsung of mine, and he didn't really know what he was doing. I've also been warned against another local calibrator for the same reason.



I also didn't feel "warm and fuzzy" about any of the locals. That's the reason I used Chad B. However, I concur that Loewen has a very strong reputation.


I'm definitely a believer in ISF calibrations. I've had the service done on two sets. First, the Mits CRT RPTV and the difference was "night and day". The SXRD was much better out of the box; but the calibration was definitely worth the money to me. No one could fail to see the improvement in the picture. By the way, my wife has almost always complained about my audio/video expenditures. However, even she is a strong supporter of ISF's.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was this local calibrator you used ISF trained?



Yes, and listed on the ISF web site. Same with the other local calibrator I mentioned. Please do not interpret my warning as an indictment of *all* local ISF calibrators. I'd be very surprised to find there aren't some fully competent ones available. The trick is knowing which are the competent ones. I opted to go with a nationally known and trusted calibrator just to be certain.


----------



## ksh937

Thanks a lot guys. I will try your suggestions, keeping in mind your caveats. I am pretty new to all this technology and don't quite understand it so hopefully I don't get taken for a ride










To give you some info:


I also have the Samsung 960 DVD player. I chose this player b/c I wanted the 1080p upconverting and it only cost me $100. I figured this was a good option until the Blu-Ray DVD players come down a bit in price.


I have SD DirecTV (via S-Video







), the 960 Samsung via HDMI, and an HDTV antenna for Broadcast HDTV channels.


For those familiar with Cleveland, I live in the Warehouse District.


Which leads me to a couple other questions:


1. I am having problems getting all 4 broadcast HDTV channels. I get Fox fine, but NBC, ABC and CBS are spotty. I am using a non-Terk HD Antenna, I forget the brand (I'm not a home right now) but it has two diamond shaped "ears" that attach to the stem and are parallel to the plane of the ground (so it kinda looks like a figure 8 from a bird's eye view). Anyone in downtown Cleveland (or with experience with HD Antenna's) have any suggestions?


2. Do I have to mess with my DVD player as well to calibrate it to the TV? Will one of the calibrators do this as well? Some of the DVDs don't look as stellar as the ones I saw in Magnolia that were running on the same TV with the same DVD player.


3. I still have the option to buy the extended 4 year warranty on my TV... what are peoples' views on this? I feel like it's a good investment of $300-400, but am not sure.


Thanks again!!!


----------



## Inundated

I'm thinking about pushing a relative of mine towards either of the two guys mentioned up here, Chad or Gregg. It sounds like Chad gets up here fairly often, and I don't know when Gregg will be here this month - if that'd work for my family member.


The set's a Samsung 67" DLP...


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2. Do I have to mess with my DVD player as well to calibrate it to the TV? Will one of the calibrators do this as well? Some of the DVDs don't look as stellar as the ones I saw in Magnolia that were running on the same TV with the same DVD player.



Part of Chad B.'s ISF on my SXRD was that he "tweaked" every input that I use (he even tweaked a component input, that I don't use, just in case I want to use it in the future). I use a Denon 2910 upconverting DVD player via HDMI. Chad even tested each of the possible resolutions and we decided that 1080i provided the best picture (e.g., on the SXRD, the HDMI input with 480p was "over filtered"). Owner settings (contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, gamma, etc.) were different between the Denon and my HD Tivo.


Proper grayscale is the ISF benefit that we can't achieve without expensive equipment. If you are very "proficient" with DVE/Avia, you can get pretty close on tweaking individual components; however, Chad B. also used his equipment for that function and definitely improved over what I had achieved using both Avia and DVE.


----------



## TLaz

Is anyone else having problems receiving WUAB-DT? I am not receiving any signal at all where usually I receive it 24/7.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having problems receiving WUAB-DT? I am not receiving any signal at all where usually I receive it 24/7.



I normally receive 43-1 from an OTA antenna. I'm not currently getting any signal.


----------



## ksh937

So I do have a Terk antenna, just not the one that looks like a futuristic gun that people complain about...


I live downtown in the Warehouse District... I only get ABC, FOX and Telemundo / Univision in HD. Anyone know why NBC and CBS don't come in???


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having problems receiving WUAB-DT? I am not receiving any signal at all where usually I receive it 24/7.



Same thing here. No signal on 43-1 whatsoever. I'm sure they'll fix it. The Tube (43-2) is down too.


Hookbill, is your Tivo 3 receiving digital 43 via cable? Maybe it's just ota that's down?


thx, Tom


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I do have a Terk antenna, just not the one that looks like a futuristic gun that people complain about...
> 
> 
> I live downtown in the Warehouse District... I only get ABC, FOX and Telemundo / Univision in HD. Anyone know why NBC and CBS don't come in???



I don't know what specific antenna you have, but it sure sounds like your antenna is UHF only. Both NBC and CBS broadcast on VHF frequencies (analog channels 2 and 10, respectively). The fact that you're getting everything else is pretty telling.


If at all possible, I'd try another antenna that pulls in both UHF and VHF.


----------



## rRooster

WUAB is down on my DVR from time warner and also the QAM tuner on my sony


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cable has a message on the WUAB HD channel, that WUAB is having transmitter problems.


----------



## paule123

Sometime in the past week or two Wide Open West added FSNHD on channel 220 to the lineup. I was all excited to see the Cavs game in HD tonight since it's on FSNOH, but it's not on FSNHD. FSNHD is just showing the rotating promo banner. WTF?


----------



## ajstan99

Here's the HD schedule for the next couple of weeks - not a lot:
http://msn.foxsports.com/name/HD#FSOhio 


Complete Cavs schedule. Asterisk indicates game in HD.
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5894594


----------



## Brian81

43-1 is not working..


3-1 works but goes black and gives a 'weak signal' message every 5 seconds ... hopefully this will be fixed by 8pm Sunday.



Anyways, this sux











Time Warner Lorain Branch customer FYI


----------



## JJkizak

Maybe with this outage 43.2 will fix the low sound volume on the Tube. It's about 15 db lower than anybody else. 43.1 is fine on the sound level and so is 43 analog.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

Watching WKYC HD via TW this morning HD news, looks fine.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

Old Adelphia/new TWC person...what's with all the 800 and 900 empty channels in my guide? I know the 800 channels are the digital local channels. I wish I could get the empty channels out of the guide. What are the 900 channels going to be?


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Old Adelphia/new TWC person...what's with all the 800 and 900 empty channels in my guide? I know the 800 channels are the digital local channels. I wish I could get the empty channels out of the guide. What are the 900 channels going to be?Thanks.




Ok, heres a surprise. Those 800 locals you see? They are not digital. They are analog. What happens is that if you have a digital receiver you receive the digital channels which are i.e. 4 WOIO, 5, WEWS, 8 WJW.


Now if you hook up to a wall without a converter then you see those 800 channels even though they are in the same spots. How do I know this? Two ways: One, if you have your receiver that can receive dolby you can see dolby 2.0 out of those channels. On the 800's it's PCM 48. The other way is if you have a tv hooked up to the wall and one to a digital receiver and you tune your digital receiver to the 800's you will see they are synched exactly. No delay.


Now it's long been believed that the 800's were being used as test stations for all the other analog stations that TW offers. At one time even though you couldn't see anything with them they had stations like ESPN, A&E, etc on them.


I have no idea whats on the 900's I never saw them and since I have an S3 now I don't see them at all.


----------



## Inundated

I assume the eventual plan is to do the digital substitution on all of the sub-100 channels. At some point, that'll allow TWC to cut loose the analog channels entirely, which will free up a whole boatload of bandwidth.


(That second part is mostly speculation on my part.)


----------



## ksh937




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what specific antenna you have, but it sure sounds like your antenna is UHF only. Both NBC and CBS broadcast on VHF frequencies (analog channels 2 and 10, respectively). The fact that you're getting everything else is pretty telling.
> 
> 
> If at all possible, I'd try another antenna that pulls in both UHF and VHF.



Actually, the antenna I had is UHF and VHF. But the VHF (NBC and CBS) did not come in unfortunately. Sp I returned it and I got the Terk antenna that everyone complains about (the one that looks like a space-age laser gun). I STILL can't get NBC or CBS in HD.


Anyone else live in the Warehouse district having this problem?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, the antenna I had is UHF and VHF. But the VHF (NBC and CBS) did not come in unfortunately. Sp I returned it and I got the Terk antenna that everyone complains about (the one that looks like a space-age laser gun). I STILL can't get NBC or CBS in HD.
> 
> 
> Anyone else live in the Warehouse district having this problem?



How's your signal strength on the channels you do get? It's possible that if they're fairly marginal, CBS and NBC don't lock on as they broadcast at a lower power than the others due to the nature of being on a lower frequency.


For what it's worth, I'm in Medina which would put us at (very) roughly the same distance apart from the Parma antenna farm. I tried three or four small antennas, and none of them would pull in NBC or CBS reliably. I ended up having to go to a 120" radio shack antenna to get them all. And even then those two were prone to dropouts. Actually, CBS never quite locked on all the time, but I think that was more of a ghosting problem than anything.


Anyway, I wish I could help you more. Hopefully someone closer to you can provide some suggestions.


----------



## paule123

Seems like WKYC has tweaked their encoder to reduce the macroblocking on the Sunday night football game. I hardly noticed it tonight.


----------



## JJkizak

I haven't noticed the 1/8th second out of focus at the beginning of every scene change either.


JJK


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't noticed the 1/8th second out of focus at the beginning of every scene change either.
> 
> 
> JJK



Earlier in the season there was a Harris Flexicoder setting that WKYC and many other affiliates changed that fixed the "fuzz outs" you're talking about. Now I only see them immediately after SNF returns from a commercial break.


----------



## HD MM











O-H


----------



## Rijax




----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> O-H



I-O!!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksh937* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, the antenna I had is UHF and VHF. But the VHF (NBC and CBS) did not come in unfortunately. Sp I returned it and I got the Terk antenna that everyone complains about (the one that looks like a space-age laser gun). I STILL can't get NBC or CBS in HD.
> 
> 
> Anyone else live in the Warehouse district having this problem?



There is an innherent problem with indoor antennas - no matter how good they are they cant make a bad signal into a good one. You need to place the antenna by a window facing the transmitters. I live right by the transmitters and I get garbage on WKYC and WOIO unless the antenna is by the window. The building materials (aluminum siding, insulation, steel etc. screw up the signal indoors. Glass is your only friend. So if you have a south-facing window try placing the antenna there.


----------



## paule123

Also try putting it out on the balcony (if you have one). If there's a metal screen in the window, that will screw things up as well.


----------



## geocab

Man, how did I suddenly lose 19? I've always had a pretty strong signal and now nothing. I wan't gettting 43 either, but I see that there was a normal problem. Do these two stations broadcast from the same tower?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, how did I suddenly lose 19? I've always had a pretty strong signal and now nothing. I wan't gettting 43 either, but I see that there was a normal problem. Do these two stations broadcast from the same tower?



I'm really glad it's not just me with 19 too. It usually comes thru with no problem after about 8pm when the signal suddenly becomes more steady. But the last few days, all I've seen are pixelations. *sad face*


"How I met your Mother" & "Two and a half Men" were unwatchable. Hopefully it's something they can fix.


----------



## rlb

I've had no problems with 19-1; however I'm only about six miles south of the antenna farm and I have a roof top antenna.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, how did I suddenly lose 19? I've always had a pretty strong signal and now nothing. I wan't gettting 43 either, but I see that there was a normal problem. Do these two stations broadcast from the same tower?



No, WOIO is in the West Creek Preserve (formerly the Parma City Dump) on Ridgewood (behind WKYC and next door to WBNX). WUAB is on State Rd, behind Padua Franciscan High School (just a few blocks north of WEWS).


BTW: having WOIO and WKYC next to each other makes for a convenient situation for those with seperate VHF and UHF antennas. The 2 VHF's are so close to each other, too bad the UHF's are spread out.


----------



## kpollari

To my surprise, 19-1 (CBS) was coming in this morning with about 45-50% signal strength on my HDTiVo. I haven't seen that station come in in a long time. I managed to lock it in for the Masters but have since relocated my antennas. I'm using a SquareShooter aimed to the southwest amplified through a Terk DirecTV multiswitch and then combined at the receiver end with a simple pair of rabbit ears to pick up 3-1 (NBC). I need to mess with the SquareShooter to get 5-1 for the game this weekend. I live near the west side market and this OTA stuff is a pain. Thankfully, most of the shows I record are on NBC and that comes in pretty well with my setup.


----------



## HD MM

Here is an email and response I recently received from E* regarding their intent to add LiLs and local sports programming to Cleveland's HD lineup.............



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hd mm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> 
> Recently I transferred my DBS service to Dish Network. I was a former Direct TV subscriber and chose to switch for a variety of reasons. One of the major reasons was your quantity/selection of high definition channels. However, I have a few questions regarding that subject.
> 
> 
> I reside in the Cleveland, Ohio market and am wondering when Dish plans on adding Cleveland RSN's and local Sports programming to it's HD package? Also I am wondering when we will be able to access the local Cleveland channels (nbc, abc, fox, cbs, upn, etc) through the supplied satellite and receiver? According to my research, Cleveland is the 16th largest market and we would love to hear of progress regarding this matter.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> hd mm





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank Barcia, executive communications, Dish Network* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad to see another new subscriber and want to follow up on your questions if I may. The addition of HD locals/RSN's via Cleveland , OH will begin sometime in 1st quarter of next year. (2007) The only upcoming cities that are re-forming to HD at this time are Indianapolis IN., Raleigh NC., and Pittsburg PA. We'll have more of a direct timeframe by next quarter. Thanks for your inquiry and business sir!


----------



## hookbill

Although that response looked good I think it was canned. You asked about Cleveland, why in the heck would he bother with those other cities?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although that response looked good I think it was canned. You asked about Cleveland, why in the heck would he bother with those other cities?



No clue. Probably to make it look like they were committed to and currently working on adding LiLs to other cities and that would mean we are next. Who cares about Pittsburgh! Why do they get LiLs before Cleveland? Besides, not only is Cleveland the 16th largest DMA, they are the largest without HD LiLs. Get with it E*!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kpollari* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To my surprise, 19-1 (CBS) was coming in this morning with about 45-50% signal strength on my HDTiVo. I haven't seen that station come in in a long time. I managed to lock it in for the Masters but have since relocated my antennas. I'm using a SquareShooter aimed to the southwest amplified through a Terk DirecTV multiswitch and then combined at the receiver end with a simple pair of rabbit ears to pick up 3-1 (NBC). I need to mess with the SquareShooter to get 5-1 for the game this weekend. I live near the west side market and this OTA stuff is a pain. Thankfully, most of the shows I record are on NBC and that comes in pretty well with my setup.



Thx everyone for feedback on 19-1 ota. The change in strength might've been atmospheric. Seems better now, NCIS in HD showed up very nicely...


----------



## HD MM

I need your help on this latest poll fellow Ohioans.......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751228


----------



## Rijax

Anybody able and willing to help this guy out?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751361 


I'd be happy to do it but I'm the sole caregiver for my 94 year old Mother who has dementia, which gives new meaning to the old song "Don't get around much anymore."


----------



## Michael P 2341

There will be only one "extra" game available this weekend for anybody who can get both the Cleveland and Youngstown stations. The 1 PM FOX game between ATL and BAL will be carried on the WYFX subchannel of WKBN-DT (27.2). I have a feeling not many of us will choose that game over the one on CBS...


----------



## kiddsilk69

Thank God I found this. I been going crazy trying to get 19-1 and 3-1. I have never gotten 19-1 which is irritating bc of the browns. I have read little about fine tuning a signal and even brought a compass but at this point I just find this painful. I have just fine tuned my A/V set-up for weeks and now I have to deal with this. My antennea picks up UHF and VHF and I live in an apartment in Strongsville. Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## wd8kct

Receive WOIO-DT on amplified rabbit ears in North Canton.

But only if I insert an FM trap before the preamp.

FM broadcast crud.


Ed...


----------



## AdamPS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Receive WOIO-DT on amplified rabbit ears in North Canton.
> 
> But only if I insert an FM trap before the preamp.
> 
> FM broadcast crud.
> 
> 
> Ed...



I live in Twinsburg and could really use some help getting WOIO-DT on my indoor antenna. Where can I get an FM trap (I have never heard of these before)?


Thanks!


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiddsilk69* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank God I found this. I been going crazy trying to get 19-1 and 3-1. I have never gotten 19-1 which is irritating bc of the browns. I have read little about fine tuning a signal and even brought a compass but at this point I just find this painful. I have just fine tuned my A/V set-up for weeks and now I have to deal with this. My antennea picks up UHF and VHF and I live in an apartment in Strongsville. Anyone have any suggestions?



If you have a window that faces Parma, one of these should be all you need since you're only about 7-10 miles from the towers.

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV1...&s=electronics 


Most of the time, if you find the right position, you can get 3,5,8,19,43,61 without moving the antenna.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Twinsburg and could really use some help getting WOIO-DT on my indoor antenna. Where can I get an FM trap (I have never heard of these before)?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



An FM trap is simply a filter that removes the FM radio broadcast frequencies from the mix. All of the FM frequencies fall between analog TV channels 6 and 7, by the way, so the thinking is that since an amplifier will make all of the frequencies stronger, the fewer that are actually in the mix the better and cleaner the overall signal will be.


You can usually find this kind of thing at Radio Shack. Be careful, though, as some of these will filter out the FM frequencies and others will filter out everything BUT the FM frequencies. Make sure you get the right filter.


Here's an an example of one from Amazon. 


Truthfully, though, I've historically found very little benefit in using an FM trap except when I was once having a hard time pulling in a distant broadcast frequency on Channel 7. And don't forget that you still need an amplifier. An FM trap on an unamplified signal will have very, very little benefit if any. If you're just using an indoor antenna an FM trap may not be applicable to your situation.


** Disclosure: The above is based on 20+ year-old experience. Things may have changed since then. If that's the case, I'm sure somebody else will correct me.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Twinsburg and could really use some help getting WOIO-DT on my indoor antenna. Where can I get an FM trap (I have never heard of these before)?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I doubt that you will ever get WOIO-DT with an indoor antenna. If you live in a single family home, your options appear to be getting cable or D* with local HD stations; or putting up an outdoor antenna.


I live around 6 miles south of the antenna farms in Parma; but had an outdoor antenna mounted on the roof when I got my first HD TV around 5 years ago. My house faces south; so I was able to have the antenna installed on rear roof of the home. You can't even see it when driving down the street (i.e., it's below the roof line). You may be too far away; but some people have luck installing them in the rafters of the garage or the home itself if you have the headroom.


----------



## AdamPS

Thanks for the tips guys. I live in an apartment so an indoor antenna is my only option. I might just have to check out the FM trap route for kicks...at worst I am back where I started.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The FM trap only works if your antenna is amplified! If you must use an indoor antenna be sure you aim it out a window that faces the transmitters, otherwise the best antenna and amplifier in the world will not help you.


You need a clean signal - an amplifier just makes the noise louder. Building materials such as aluminum siding, steel beams, just about everything but glass screws up the signal. If you are within a 15 mile radius I would not recommend an amplifier, it will overload - not just on the FM signals but all the TV signals as well. Keep in mind that the analog signals also add to the noise.


----------



## mike888

I have decided that I want to get a rotor for my antenna. I would like to fine-tune the specific channels that I want to receive, and (to justify my purchase) so my wife can watch the CW in HD from Youngstown.










Does anyone have a suggestion on a decent, heavy-duty rotor that holds up well? I've looked at Channel Master, Magnavox, Zenith, etc., but I can't seem to find many reviews, recommendations...


Thanks for your help, and it's too bad that TV-55 will NEVER broadcast OTA, right guys?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike888* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have decided that I want to get a rotor for my antenna. I would like to fine-tune the specific channels that I want to receive, and (to justify my purchase) so my wife can watch the CW in HD from Youngstown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion on a decent, heavy-duty rotor that holds up well? I've looked at Channel Master, Magnavox, Zenith, etc., but I can't seem to find many reviews, recommendations...
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help, and it's too bad that TV-55 will NEVER broadcast OTA, right guys?



I hate to break this to you but the CW is not in "HD" in Youngstown. Digital, yes, but it's an SD subchannel of WFMJ-DT (Rf 20). This is also true of the FOX affilliate WYFX which is an SD subchannel of WKBN-DT (Rf 41) and My-TV (or My "YTV" as they like to call it) which is an SD subchannel of WYTV-DT (Rf 36).


In one respest WBCB (The Youngstown CW) is better than WBNX if only for the fact that they are digital. But "digital" does not always equal "HD".


----------



## paule123

Just wanted to report that my Wide Open West SA8300HD DVR does support an external ESATA drive. I installed a Maxtor 500GB SATA HDD in a generic external ESATA enclosure, connected it to the SA8300HD and it immediately prompted me to format it.


I earlier had claimed ESATA was not active with WOW, but that was because I was using an IDE drive in the ESATA enclosure and apparently the SA8300HD didn't like the IDE>SATA conversion electronics.


My SA8300HD is running SARA 1.87.16.1


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I doubt that you will ever get WOIO-DT with an indoor antenna. If you live in a single family home, your options appear to be getting cable or D* with local HD stations; or putting up an outdoor antenna.
> 
> 
> I live around 6 miles south of the antenna farms in Parma; but had an outdoor antenna mounted on the roof when I got my first HD TV around 5 years ago. My house faces south; so I was able to have the antenna installed on rear roof of the home. You can't even see it when driving down the street (i.e., it's below the roof line). You may be too far away; but some people have luck installing them in the rafters of the garage or the home itself if you have the headroom.



I guess you could install the antenna in the basement or even bury it out in the back yard, for that matter! But antennas are designed to work out in the open, free of obstructions. And for digital TV that becomes even more important, as severe "ghosting" that you might be able to put up with watching an analog signal renders the digital signal useless. Maybe that's why Congress gave the FCC authority to pre-empt local government and covenental (homeowner's associations) laws and regulations restricting or banning the installation of OTA broadcast antennas. Now if they only could pre-empt the wife.........!


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cleveland just added (Nov. 20)

NFL HD

Fox Sports HD ran a show! a Columbus hockey game.


----------



## paule123

My guide says FSNHD is showing the Cavs game tonight.


Browns/Bengals game will be HD this Sunday.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Browns/Bengals game will be HD this Sunday.



Wow. It's on CBS, right?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. It's on CBS, right?



Yes, Browns will be on CBS Sunday at 1PM. I think we got lucky because there's 3 games on Thanksgiving and 2 of those games are AFC (normally CBS).


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess you could install the antenna in the basement or even bury it out in the back yard, for that matter! But antennas are designed to work out in the open, free of obstructions. And for digital TV that becomes even more important, as severe "ghosting" that you might be able to put up with watching an analog signal renders the digital signal useless. Maybe that's why Congress gave the FCC authority to pre-empt local government and covenental (homeowner's associations) laws and regulations restricting or banning the installation of OTA broadcast antennas. Now if they only could pre-empt the wife.........!



I'm glad that someone has mentioned this, because this is one of the downsides to OTA digital that no one has bothered to mention. An analog signal that can be viewable may not be viewable at all with digital. There are a couple stations that I will have to give up watching after analog disappears. This is something we'll have to deal with after analog is gone, but digital isn't all it's cracked up to be. It can be improved, and I don't agree with the FCC's way of pushing their control on everything.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad that someone has mentioned this, because this is one of the downsides to OTA digital that no one has bothered to mention. An analog signal that can be viewable may not be viewable at all with digital. There are a couple stations that I will have to give up watching after analog disappears. This is something we'll have to deal with after analog is gone, but digital isn't all it's cracked up to be. It can be improved, and I don't agree with the FCC's way of pushing their control on everything.



WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD 3 CHANNELS AND IF YOU COULD SEE A SHAPE MOVING AND UNDERSTAND THE SOUND IT WAS A GREAT PICTURE! AND WE LIKED IT! WE ALSO WALKED 20 MILES TO SCHOOL UP HILL...BOTH WAYS! AND WE LIKED THAT TOO!
























Seriously though there is a lot of education that needs to be done for the countless thousands that are till going out this Christmas and buying their 35" analog TV and are just loving the really low prices. There's an uncountable number of small screen TV's out there with antennas in cabled and satellite homes in kitchens and bedrooms. If they're lucky, really lucky, those people MAY get 2 DTV tuner vouchers with questionable front ends, meaning they'll get a nice clear sharp picture of "NO SIGNAL". There is still debate with the NTIA on how the vouchers will work and now after the election that process will only get worse. Pulling the "sticks" or "loop" out of the plastic isn't going to cut it for most people with digital. There's an education process that needs to happen in the broadcasting community that hasn't started yet.


----------



## paule123

This Christmas nobody should be able to buy a 25" or larger TV without an ATSC tuner, correct? FCC required this as of March 2006...


Edit: Just took a quick look at Best Buy's website and this seems to be true. All the 25" or larger tube SDTV's have ATSC tuners in them now.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This Christmas nobody should be able to buy a 25" or larger TV without an ATSC tuner, correct? FCC required this as of March 2006...
> 
> 
> Edit: Just took a quick look at Best Buy's website and this seems to be true. All the 25" or larger tube SDTV's have ATSC tuners in them now.



The key phrase of the regulation is "manufactured after...". In stock TV's made before that date are grandfathered. So it is possible to get an NTSC TV without a DTV tuner today. This may affect discount internet orders rather than your local "Big Box" store, but buyer beware. All part of the education process.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD 3 CHANNELS AND IF YOU COULD SEE A SHAPE MOVING AND UNDERSTAND THE SOUND IT WAS A GREAT PICTURE! AND WE LIKED IT! WE ALSO WALKED 20 MILES TO SCHOOL UP HILL...BOTH WAYS! AND WE LIKED THAT TOO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though there is a lot of education that needs to be done for the countless thousands that are till going out this Christmas and buying their 35" analog TV and are just loving the really low prices. There's an uncountable number of small screen TV's out there with antennas in cabled and satellite homes in kitchens and bedrooms. If they're lucky, really lucky, those people MAY get 2 DTV tuner vouchers with questionable front ends, meaning they'll get a nice clear sharp picture of "NO SIGNAL". There is still debate with the NTIA on how the vouchers will work and now after the election that process will only get worse. Pulling the "sticks" or "loop" out of the plastic isn't going to cut it for most people with digital. There's an education process that needs to happen in the broadcasting community that hasn't started yet.



I really enjoyed the "when I was your age" story by the way.










Yes, this is so true. Analog TVs may be dirt cheap, but people don't realize that those will be nearly useless in the near future, unless a digital tuner is provided. This means that I will have a few OTA TVs (including my 2.3" portable that I love to travel with) that will become crappy monitors. I hope that some advancements are made with putting digital tuners into small handheld OTA receivers, and I hope that the broadcasting OTA issues are worked out. But being as optimistic as I can, I'm confident that these issues will be worked out considering that this is still a new technology and people haven't been educated enough.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really enjoyed the "when I was your age" story by the way.



It was partially true for me. We actually got 2, 4, 11 and 13 out of Pittsburgh when I was 6. 6, 7, and 9 were 50% snow. We had a B&W Zenith with mechanical tuner with finger stock that brought the individual tuned channel segments online. After time, the finger stock became corroded. We called the "guy next door" and he'd come with his hard case of tubes and glass bottle of carbon tetrochloride and he'd pull the thing apart and clean everything. When the thing went bad, it would suddenly go to all snow and we'd stomp on the wood floors real hard to get the picture back. I must have been destined to my career back then because I found out if I spun the dial arounf enought times it would work for a couple days.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was partially true for me. We actually got 2, 4, 11 and 13 out of Pittsburgh when I was 6. 6, 7, and 9 were 50% snow. We had a B&W Zenith with mechanical tuner with finger stock that brought the individual tuned channel segments online. After time, the finger stock became corroded. We called the "guy next door" and he'd come with his hard case of tubes and glass bottle of carbon tetrochloride and he'd pull the thing apart and clean everything. When the thing went bad, it would suddenly go to all snow and we'd stomp on the wood floors real hard to get the picture back. I must have been destined to my career back then because I found out if I spun the dial arounf enought times it would work for a couple days.



I'm only 22, so I don't have the same story. But it seems that a lot of the older TV tuners had good sensitivity and high quality. I had an old B&W 12" 1979 TV as my first, and it always was able to get WFMJ-21 perfectly. I also had a 1983 color 13" that had good sensitivity. My newer TVs weren't able to do that with the same antenna, but I don't think that the newer ones were designed as sensitive for OTA signals since cable and satellite came out. Or perhaps it's just the typical "make things as cheap as possible for profit" mentality since the average consumer can't tell the difference.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow. It's on CBS, right?



Yes, CBS however only WOIO. WKBN will have the Steelers @ Ravens. WYFX will have both FOX games (WJW got the 1 PM game balcked out due to the Browns being at home).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was partially true for me. We actually got 2, 4, 11 and 13 out of Pittsburgh when I was 6. 6, 7, and 9 were 50% snow. We had a B&W Zenith with mechanical tuner with finger stock that brought the individual tuned channel segments online. After time, the finger stock became corroded. We called the "guy next door" and he'd come with his hard case of tubes and glass bottle of carbon tetrochloride and he'd pull the thing apart and clean everything. When the thing went bad, it would suddenly go to all snow and we'd stomp on the wood floors real hard to get the picture back. I must have been destined to my career back then because I found out if I spun the dial arounf enought times it would work for a couple days.



This is all off topic ofcourse but I too remember the old days of television. Since I grew up in Los Angeles we had channels 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13. All black and white my parents were to poor to own a color. But hey, look at that channel selection! And as I recall back then all you really needed was just an antenna on the roof and you got a good picture. When UHF became available we got a couple more. They were real tough to pull in.


Anyway I had this black and white TV in my bedroom and when I first turned it on it would always have a problem with the horizontal but I would wack it on the side and it would straighten out every time.


Funny how things have changed so much.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD 3 CHANNELS AND IF YOU COULD SEE A SHAPE MOVING AND UNDERSTAND THE SOUND IT WAS A GREAT PICTURE! AND WE LIKED IT! WE ALSO WALKED 20 MILES TO SCHOOL UP HILL...BOTH WAYS! AND WE LIKED THAT TOO!



So true, so true, except the part about the uphill 20 mile walk to and from school. We *never liked* that uphill 20 mile walk.










When I moved to Cleveland (1951), there was only WNBK CH 4 (NBC), which changed to CH 3 and eventually became WKYC; WEWS CH 5 (ABC); and WJW CH 9 (CBS) which changed to CH 8.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Funny how things have changed so much.



Yea, you don't whack it anymore. You reboot it. And it's not really off topic. Standing on a chair holding an antenna or tying it to a curtain rod is back. There's posts all over this thread about Silver Sensors on top of book shelves or jammed out a window a certain way. The only post I haven't seen yet is someone trying tin foil. The only difference is that now instead of snow or ghosts you get nothing.

The point is that whether it's 1960 or 2006, digital or analog, it's still RF and RF will always behave the same.


----------



## Inundated

It was 3, 5, 8, 23, 25 and 43 for me when I was growing up. 61 just showed up on the scene when I was a toddler, then left, then later came back. 55 wasn't even a gleam in Rev. Humbard's eyes atop the tower that was never finished. 45/49 were latecomers, as was 19, which showed up well after I graduated high school (!!!).


----------



## intermod

Channel 4 (DET) as well as wnem-d1 5-1

wnem-d2 5-2

wlns-dt 6-1

are rolling in on my UHF Yagi pointed at 300' .

Cant pick up WEWS with the ant that far north,


Scan for Channels

Happy Turkey Day!

Dan


BTW::

RE: Inundated "It was 3, 5, 8, 23, 25 and 43 for me when I was growing up. 61 just showed up on the scene when I was a toddler, then left, then later came back."


My Mom still has some 8mm film my Dad took when the KYW towers were erected!

KYW is still on the air in Philly.


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad that someone has mentioned this, because this is one of the downsides to OTA digital that no one has bothered to mention. An analog signal that can be viewable may not be viewable at all with digital. There are a couple stations that I will have to give up watching after analog disappears. This is something we'll have to deal with after analog is gone, but digital isn't all it's cracked up to be. It can be improved, and I don't agree with the FCC's way of pushing their control on everything.




"What Stations will you miss?, You don't have to throw away the analog sets,

and if the station didn't upgrade to digital, they will go off the air anyway.

The Canadian stations suck,


"Living life north of line "A" "


Dan


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Seriously though there is a lot of education that needs to be done for the countless thousands



like making it known that digital OTA exists!

people I've talked to aren't even aware that you can get

digital TV without paying...

the cable/DBS brain washing has succeeded...


Ed...


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 61 just showed up on the scene when I was a toddler...



Oh Gad! I worked at 61 (WKBF) when it first went on the air (1968). I had just graduated from college. Didn't work there that long (6 months?). Uncle Sam figured he needed my help to resolve a little conflict in Viet Nam. Regret to say I wasn't much help.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My Mom still has some 8mm film my Dad took when the KYW towers were erected!
> 
> KYW is still on the air in Philly.



That whole KYW thing was weird. KYW, which originated in Philadelphia, and the NBC affiliate here in Cleveland, WNBK, swapped owners and stations. The Cleveland station now became KYW, and WNBK was changed to WRCV in Philadelphia.


Then, a number of years later the FCC said "Whoops! You guys can't do that! You have to swap back again." KYW went back to Philadelphia taking some of the staff with it (Mike Douglas, for example). In fact, Dick Goddard was working at KYW, and he went to Philadelphia (he shortly returned, hired by WJW, channel 8, and has been there ever since). The station which was originally in Cleveland came back, changing their call letters to WKYC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh Gad! I worked at 61 (WKBF) when it first went on the air (1968). I had just graduated from college. Didn't work there that long (6 months?). Uncle Sam figured he needed my help to resolve a little conflict in Viet Nam. Regret to say I wasn't much help.



Thanks for your service. I know it's Thanksgiving, not Veterens Day but just want to let you know we appreciate.


----------



## twaller

Great day for long distance reception! From my location near Lansing MI, I am picking up WJW-DT, WQHS-DT, and WEWS-DT!


----------



## intermod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That whole KYW thing was weird. KYW, which originated in Philadelphia, and the NBC affiliate here in Cleveland, WNBK, swapped owners and stations. The Cleveland station now became KYW, and WNBK was changed to WRCV in Philadelphia.
> 
> 
> Then, a number of years later the FCC said "Whoops! You guys can't do that! You have to swap back again." KYW went back to Philadelphia taking some of the staff with it (Mike Douglas, for example). In fact, Dick Goddard was working at KYW, and he went to Philadelphia (he shortly returned, hired by WJW, channel 8, and has been there ever since). The station which was originally in Cleveland came back, changing their call letters to WKYC.




I'm not sure of how much FCC involvement there was, Westinghouse owned

The KYW license in Phili, Then NBC bought up a bunch of Licenses , KYW included, and moved it here to Cleveland,

NBC also owned WTAM AM . Cant recall the FM affiliate, Nobody had an FM Rx anyway! TAM was WWWE then. Then RCA (Who owend NBC at the time)

Divested a bunch of stuff and Westinghouse bought back KYW and moved back to

Phili. Dad could have moved with KYW but with me and my brother just starting

skool, Mom said no and Dad signed with RCA/NBC till he retired in '70.. Interesting to note that WTAM was once owned by the Willard Storage Battery Co.

in the day, and ran that 50kw AM off batteries. "Cleanest Carrier on the air"

was the Tag.


/Dan

Gooble Gooble


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for your service. I know it's Thanksgiving, not Veterens Day but just want to let you know we appreciate.



Thank you. Kind of you to say that. It was one of those experiences that, when living it, wasn't much fun, and I'd have rather been just about any other place in the world. But, having returned home in one piece, I'm glad for the experience.


----------



## paule123

I think CBS just screwed us on the HD Browns game this Sunday. During the Lions game they showed the graphic listing Sunday games on CBS and the little HD icon was NOT next to the Browns game. I checked TitanTV and the HD icon is not on the game either.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure of how much FCC involvement there was, Westinghouse owned
> 
> The KYW license in Phili, Then NBC bought up a bunch of Licenses , KYW included, and moved it here to Cleveland,
> 
> NBC also owned WTAM AM . Cant recall the FM affiliate, Nobody had an FM Rx anyway! TAM was WWWE then. Then RCA (Who owend NBC at the time)
> 
> Divested a bunch of stuff and Westinghouse bought back KYW and moved back to
> 
> Phili. Dad could have moved with KYW but with me and my brother just starting
> 
> skool, Mom said no and Dad signed with RCA/NBC till he retired in '70.. Interesting to note that WTAM was once owned by the Willard Storage Battery Co.
> 
> in the day, and ran that 50kw AM off batteries. "Cleanest Carrier on the air"
> 
> was the Tag.
> 
> 
> /Dan
> 
> Gooble Gooble



In 1956, NBC pressured Westinghouse into swapping ownership of their stations in Cleveland and Philadelphia, respectively. Westinghouse took ownership of WNBK-TV and WTAM AM & FM in Cleveland and moved the KYW call letters from Philadelphia to all 3 Cleveland stations. NBC took ownership of KYW TV-AM in Philadelphia and changed the call letters to WRCV TV-AM.


From Wikepedia.com 



> Quote:
> _In 1965, after a protracted legal battle, the FCC ordered the swap of stations reversed without NBC realizing any profit on the deal._



In 1965, when the FCC reversed the swap, the KYW call letters returned to Philadelphia while the Cleveland cluster became WKYC-AM-FM-TV. In 1972 the AM and FM radio stations were sold by NBC, and became WWWE and WWWM respectively. In 1996, the call letters were returned to the ones used when the radio station first went on the air in 1923 - WTAM.


Gobble Gobble back atacha.


----------



## paule123

Is anybody getting the football game on NFL Network HD tonight? On Wide Open West I've got a blank screen/no sound. Not a great debut for the NFL Network!


Edit: I just called WOW and there's a recorded message saying LIVE games on the NFL Network are blacked out on WOW. What the hell is this?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twaller* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great day for long distance reception! From my location near Lansing MI, I am picking up WJW-DT, WQHS-DT, and WEWS-DT!



This is so true!! You may be in Michigan and getting NE Ohio signals, and I'm getting signals from your direction... great atmospheric conditions.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "What Stations will you miss?



WKBN and WFMJ are just a couple that I can get through analog but not digital, and I'm using the same antenna for both. WOIO and WKYC I get with a little work and almost no effort needed for the analog. That's what I mean by improvements needed in digital. This week I've noticed that I can get a lot of analog signals from the Detroit area that I don't usually get, but it's extremely hard for me to get the digitals.


----------



## rlockshin

WOIO Ch 19 must be off the air.

Can someone else confirm?

All other OTA seem fine


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody getting the football game on NFL Network HD tonight? On Wide Open West I've got a blank screen/no sound. Not a great debut for the NFL Network!
> 
> 
> Edit: I just called WOW and there's a recorded message saying LIVE games on the NFL Network are blacked out on WOW. What the hell is this?




Direct Tv has the game in HD on channel 95


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO Ch 19 must be off the air.
> 
> Can someone else confirm?
> 
> All other OTA seem fine



Coming in fine via TW Cable. I even checked CSI, the whole show is there.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Coming in fine via TW Cable. I even checked CSI, the whole show is there.




I have it thru Direct Tv,but my outside antenna is not getting it

Can someone with anenna check channel?


----------



## hookbill

I'm not sure why it would make a difference. TW gets it OTA same as everyone else does. Sounds like your just not getting it.


----------



## Inundated

I can't reliably get WOIO-DT OTA here, and my antenna isn't in the house right now...


But I'm pretty sure hookbill is correct, and that TWC picks it up OTA, at least in Cleveland.


Oh, here's what the NFL Network looks like on TWC/Cleveland:



> Quote:


----------



## paule123

I'm getting WOIO-DT OTA just fine here in Shaker Heights.


Time Warner people - are you getting the NFL Network game LIVE right now?


----------



## TV21CHIEF

FYI I got a nice email from my cable provider essentially saying the NFL network was way too expensive to carry the Thursday and Saturday night games. My cable provider said that it would not be fair to charge subs for those games only and just blacked it out.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI I got a nice email from my cable provider essentially saying the NFL network was way too expensive to carry the Thursday and Saturday night games. My cable provider said that it would not be fair to charge subs for those games only and just blacked it out.



I talked to a CSR at WOW tonight and he said the NFL wants MORE money to carry the LIVE games. We've got NFL Network on WOW but the live game is blacked out tonight. I'm calling the NFL Commissioner's office tomorrow. The greedy bastards have gone too far.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO Ch 19 must be off the air.
> 
> Can someone else confirm?
> 
> All other OTA seem fine



I was unable to access WOIO 19.1 OTA in Lyndhurst all day yesterday as well. I figured there was way too much VHF interference with everyone's ovens/microwaves blazing yesterday for Turkey-day!


BTW, NFL Network HD came in fine for me via Dish Network. Wasn't too impressed with the coverage though. Can anyone tell me how Deion Sanders is still employed in broadcasting?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think CBS just screwed us on the HD Browns game this Sunday. During the Lions game they showed the graphic listing Sunday games on CBS and the little HD icon was NOT next to the Browns game. I checked TitanTV and the HD icon is not on the game either.



I saw the same thing. I was looking forward to this. I already had plans in hosting a Browns party just because it was supposed to be in HD!


Keep your fingers crossed.......

NFL Maps still show this game being broadcast in HD.


----------



## akron05

Last night I had an interesting night of (unintentional) DXing...all analog:


I am NOT an experienced DX'er at all...so I don't know if it's tropo ducting, e-skip or what, but I've gotten stuff on almost every station on the dial tonight...


I have NOT MOVED my rooftop antenna, and from Akron, OH was getting (all analog):


-WGRZ Channel 2, ABC, Buffalo

-WDIV NBC, Channel 4, Detroit

-WKBW ABC 7, Buffalo, might also be WXYZ Detroit, also an ABC on Channel 7

-CBET Channel 9, CBC, Windsor, Ontario

-CPFL Channel 10, London, Ontario

-WBKB Channel 11, CBS, Alpena, MI

-WJRT Channel 12, ABC, Flint, MI

-Channel 13, CTV (this one was as crystal-clear as my locals, might have been out of Ottawa since I don't know any other CTV on Channel 13 to the north of here)

-WNED Channel 17, PBS Buffalo (OVER TOP of WDLI, it's overpowering it and I don't see WDLI at all!)

-WDJT-TV Channel 58, CBS, Milwaukee (for about a minute or so)

-WWJ CBS 62, Detroit

-Presumably CJMT-TV Channel 69 in Toronto


I also got blips of several other stations, mostly Canadian ones on the UHF dial that I couldn't find online, I think they may have been translators of the above ones.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night I had an interesting night of (unintentional) DXing...all analog:
> 
> 
> I am NOT an experienced DX'er at all...so I don't know if it's tropo ducting, e-skip or what, but I've gotten stuff on almost every station on the dial tonight...
> 
> 
> I have NOT MOVED my rooftop antenna, and from Akron, OH was getting (all analog):
> 
> 
> -WGRZ Channel 2, ABC, Buffalo
> 
> -WDIV NBC, Channel 4, Detroit
> 
> -WKBW ABC 7, Buffalo, might also be WXYZ Detroit, also an ABC on Channel 7
> 
> -CBET Channel 9, CBC, Windsor, Ontario
> 
> -CPFL Channel 10, London, Ontario
> 
> -WBKB Channel 11, CBS, Alpena, MI
> 
> -WJRT Channel 12, ABC, Flint, MI
> 
> -Channel 13, CTV (this one was as crystal-clear as my locals, might have been out of Ottawa since I don't know any other CTV on Channel 13 to the north of here)
> 
> -WNED Channel 17, PBS Buffalo (OVER TOP of WDLI, it's overpowering it and I don't see WDLI at all!)
> 
> -WDJT-TV Channel 58, CBS, Milwaukee (for about a minute or so)
> 
> -WWJ CBS 62, Detroit
> 
> -Presumably CJMT-TV Channel 69 in Toronto
> 
> 
> I also got blips of several other stations, mostly Canadian ones on the UHF dial that I couldn't find online, I think they may have been translators of the above ones.



The 13 in Canada is most likely the CTV in Kitchener, which I've also got here in Akron before. The channel 69 that you got is most likely the one I have listed in London, Ontario. Last night was the perfect night for tropo. ducting, but I don't think it got to the e-skip (nothing extremely far like Florida). It was getting late, and I could've got more, but here's what I got here in Akron last night with the silver sensor...


4 WDIV DETROIT

7 WXYZ DETROIT

7 WTRF WHEELING

9 WTOV STEUBENVILLE

11 WTOL TOLEDO

12 WICU ERIE

13 WTVG TOLEDO

14 WUTV-DT BUFFALO

16 WQEX PITTSBURGH

17 WNED BUFFALO

24 WJET ERIE

29 WUTV BUFFALO

32 WNLO-DT BUFFALO

35 WOUB-DT CAMBRIDGE

35 WSEE ERIE

36 WUPW TOLEDO

38 WADL DETROIT

40 CBLN LONDON, ON

42 CKCO SARNIA, ON

44 WOUB CAMBRIDGE

51 CHCH LONDON, ON

54 WQLN ERIE

56 WTVS DETROIT

57 WTOV-DT STEUBENVILLE

58 WJBK-DT DETROIT

66 WFXP ERIE

68 WMFD MANSFIELD

69 CFMT LONDON, ON


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twaller* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great day for long distance reception! From my location near Lansing MI, I am picking up WJW-DT, WQHS-DT, and WEWS-DT!



See my last post - I was getting a BUNCH of Michigan and Ontario stations last night and even briefly got a blip from CBS on Channel 59 (analog) out of Milwaukee!


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WKBN and WFMJ are just a couple that I can get through analog but not digital, and I'm using the same antenna for both. WOIO and WKYC I get with a little work and almost no effort needed for the analog. That's what I mean by improvements needed in digital. This week I've noticed that I can get a lot of analog signals from the Detroit area that I don't usually get, but it's extremely hard for me to get the digitals.



One thing that should help *some* is when the analogs go off the air, eliminating that interference. Also, some stations are still not at 100% power.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 13 in Canada is most likely the CTV in Kitchener, which I've also got here in Akron before. The channel 69 that you got is most likely the one I have listed in London, Ontario. Last night was the perfect night for tropo. ducting, but I don't think it got to the e-skip (nothing extremely far like Florida). It was getting late, and I could've got more, but here's what I got here in Akron last night with the silver sensor...
> 
> 
> 4 WDIV DETROIT
> 
> 7 WXYZ DETROIT
> 
> 7 WTRF WHEELING
> 
> 9 WTOV STEUBENVILLE
> 
> 11 WTOL TOLEDO
> 
> 12 WICU ERIE
> 
> 13 WTVG TOLEDO
> 
> 14 WUTV-DT BUFFALO
> 
> 16 WQEX PITTSBURGH
> 
> 17 WNED BUFFALO
> 
> 24 WJET ERIE
> 
> 29 WUTV BUFFALO
> 
> 32 WNLO-DT BUFFALO
> 
> 35 WOUB-DT CAMBRIDGE
> 
> 35 WSEE ERIE
> 
> 36 WUPW TOLEDO
> 
> 38 WADL DETROIT
> 
> 40 CBLN LONDON, ON
> 
> 42 CKCO SARNIA, ON
> 
> 44 WOUB CAMBRIDGE
> 
> 51 CHCH LONDON, ON
> 
> 54 WQLN ERIE
> 
> 56 WTVS DETROIT
> 
> 57 WTOV-DT STEUBENVILLE
> 
> 58 WJBK-DT DETROIT
> 
> 66 WFXP ERIE
> 
> 68 WMFD MANSFIELD
> 
> 69 CFMT LONDON, ON



I think the Channel 69 I got was also CFMT then, the station ID up in Canada is lacking, I was doing an online search and only found the Toronto station. I did also get slme fuzz from WFXP but since I don't have a rotor at the moment, I couldn't try to tune it in any better.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I first noticed the enhanced atmospherics starting Wednesday night. I actually locked onto WLNS-DT (6-1 in Lansing, MI) in the early evening (about 7:30). Later that night, I saw channel 16 analog in South Bend, IN and even channels 26 (WCIU, independent) and 32 (WFLD, Fox 32) from Chicago, IL at about 11:30!!







These were nearly local quality signals. A little before midnight, I was able to lock onto WGTE-DT (30-1, Toledo PBS). It was nice being able to see PBS HD programming, even if they do run a couple of subchannels with it!


The enhanced reception continued into this AM, with Detroit stations coming in like locals, especially analog 4, 7 and 62. I locked onto WKBD-DT (50-1, Detroit's CW) also. As an added bonus, I picked up on analog 32 an Ontario station which I believe is CICO-TV from Windsor. It appears to be their version of PBS called Ontario TV, showing Canadian content children's programming and also Dora the Explorer.


As a result of all this extra RF from the north and west, my local station reception has been affected. I have had problems at various times the past two days with WOIO-DT and -TV, WJW-DT and -TV, WEWS-DT, and WVIZ-TV. WOIO seems to be the most affected. Ironically, the station I typically have the most trouble with, WKYC-DT, has been very strong the past couple of days.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I first noticed the enhanced atmospherics starting Wednesday night. I actually locked onto WLNS-DT (6-1 in Lansing, MI) in the early evening (about 7:30). Later that night, I saw channel 16 analog in South Bend, IN and even channels 26 (WCIU, independent) and 32 (WFLD, Fox 32) from Chicago, IL at about 11:30!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These were nearly local quality signals. A little before midnight, I was able to lock onto WGTE-DT (30-1, Toledo PBS). It was nice being able to see PBS HD programming, even if they do run a couple of subchannels with it!
> 
> 
> The enhanced reception continued into this AM, with Detroit stations coming in like locals, especially analog 4, 7 and 62. I locked onto WKBD-DT (50-1, Detroit's CW) also. As an added bonus, I picked up on analog 32 an Ontario station which I believe is CICO-TV from Windsor. It appears to be their version of PBS called Ontario TV, showing Canadian content children's programming and also Dora the Explorer.
> 
> 
> As a result of all this extra RF from the north and west, my local station reception has been affected. I have had problems at various times the past two days with WOIO-DT and -TV, WJW-DT and -TV, WEWS-DT, and WVIZ-TV. WOIO seems to be the most affected. Ironically, the station I typically have the most trouble with, WKYC-DT, has been very strong the past couple of days.



I noticed problems on WUAB analog and digital, and WOIO-DT, worse than usual. I didn't get any distant DT's but didn't try too hard, I got good signal strength from a couple Detroit and Toledo stations, but couldn't get a lock on anything.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I first noticed the enhanced atmospherics starting Wednesday night. I actually locked onto WLNS-DT (6-1 in Lansing, MI) in the early evening (about 7:30). Later that night, I saw channel 16 analog in South Bend, IN and even channels 26 (WCIU, independent) and 32 (WFLD, Fox 32) from Chicago, IL at about 11:30!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These were nearly local quality signals. A little before midnight, I was able to lock onto WGTE-DT (30-1, Toledo PBS). It was nice being able to see PBS HD programming, even if they do run a couple of subchannels with it!
> 
> 
> The enhanced reception continued into this AM, with Detroit stations coming in like locals, especially analog 4, 7 and 62. I locked onto WKBD-DT (50-1, Detroit's CW) also. As an added bonus, I picked up on analog 32 an Ontario station which I believe is CICO-TV from Windsor. It appears to be their version of PBS called Ontario TV, showing Canadian content children's programming and also Dora the Explorer.
> 
> 
> As a result of all this extra RF from the north and west, my local station reception has been affected. I have had problems at various times the past two days with WOIO-DT and -TV, WJW-DT and -TV, WEWS-DT, and WVIZ-TV. WOIO seems to be the most affected. Ironically, the station I typically have the most trouble with, WKYC-DT, has been very strong the past couple of days.



I did get a Toledo PBS station in analog for a few minutes, and the Channel 11 I got turned out to be WTOL, not the Alpena station. I was waiting for station ID and didn't get one so I assumed it was Alpena due to the area code on a local carpet company advertisement, but I guess it was just something in the Michigan part of the market. Turned it on a few minutes ago and sure enough it's WTOL. Channel 13 in Toledo is totally unseen, instead on 13 I'm getting the CTV Kitchener, Ontario station, as clear as I get my Cleveland analog locals.


The other stations were mostly watchable except the Milwaukee one I got briefly, most of the Detroit and Buffalo as well as WTOL had some snow, but no worse than what I usually get with the Youngstown analogs when my antenna is aimed at them. In fact, probably a bit better.


----------



## rlockshin

WOIO is back at full power. They must have had issues . I had it at 35% early this morning and now it is 80.

It had to have been them


----------



## Andrew K

Here are some samples of the tropospheric ducting here in Akron. They're all analogs. I couldn't get a reliable lock on any distant digitals.


WTVG-13 Toledo
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DXingTV017.jpg 


WTOV-9 Steubenville
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DXingTV011.jpg 


WICU-12 Erie
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DXingTV014.jpg 


WDIV-4 Detroit
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DXingTV007.jpg 


WJET-24 Erie
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DXingTV003.jpg 


Here's my reception on WFMJ-21 but still no lock onto WFMJ-DT 20.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...DXingTV008.jpg


----------



## akron05

Cool stuff.


----------



## intermod

Acording to Hepburn the Tropp will improve this weekend!!

Sunday looks great!

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html 


Dan


----------



## JJkizak

AAhh yes, one form of anamolous probagation, instead of the VHF/UHF RF going straight it kind of bends around the curvature of the earth. If you had a 30 ft parabolic antenna that would rotate and elevate and a parametric front end on your tv just think of all the stuff you could pick up. (Receiver sensitivity -103 dbm for 20 db quieting, noise figure 1.8 db.)


JJK


----------



## HD MM

What the hell is going on with WOIO 19.1?


I thought the Browns game was supposed to be in 1080i HD?


Did someone at the station forget to flip the switch? What's going on?


----------



## Kerbs

No HD on WHIO in Dayton. CBS problem?????


----------



## hookbill

The Browns were originally scheduled for HD, but CBS apparently changed their mind before the week end came they were removed from the HD games. Translation: Who cares about Cleveland?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What the hell is going on with WOIO 19.1?
> 
> 
> I thought the Browns game was supposed to be in 1080i HD?
> 
> 
> Did someone at the station forget to flip the switch? What's going on?



No problem with WOIO, CBS screwed us. The promos running on CBS Thanksgiving day indicated the game was NOT going be HD. They switched the HD crew over to the HOU/NYJ game.


CBS Sports never updated the website, nor did the gribblenation NFL maps indicate the change.


----------



## hookbill

Well, the game would have looked bad even in HD. Just as well.


----------



## jsehlms

Maybe you guys can offer some suggestions. I didn't dare read through all 235 pages from 2003, but here we go.


Recently I had my roof re-done. At the time, the roofers removed the small antenna I had on the side of my house which I used to receive HD stations. With the small antenna (about 12" long) I was able to get 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 with no problems. I'm using media center with a Dvico Fusion 5 tuner and with the small antenna my reception was 50-75% at best on all stations. 5 was the lowest, 8 was the highest (sometimes all 5 bars on the MCE tuning guide).


Well since they removed the small antenna, I had them come out and hook up the large angenna I had from the previous tenants. I found out from the land lord both antennas were ther when they lived int he house more than 10 years ago. THe larger antenna had the double wire coming down, so I got an adapter and ran new RG6 up to the antenna and had the roofers hook it up. I came in and checked and I had excellent reception on 3, 5, 19, but 8 and 43 had medium reception. I was happy as everything came in. Well in the last few days, both 43 and 8 won't pick up a signal. When I do the antenna signal strength in MCE both channels have 2 of 5 bars (red).


If I switch over to analog signal for my tv, 8 comes in perfectly. 43 however is nothing but snow.


So, my question is what antenna's do you use or at least recommend. I'm thinking maybe this antenna is just too old (if that's even a possibility). I live within the city limits of Cleveland by 176 so distance shouldn't be an issue as the furthest distance according to antennaweb is 5.4miles.


Any suggestions?


Thanks,

Jason


----------



## geocab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Translation: Who cares about Cleveland?




I keep trying, but their O-line just makes it harder and harder every week. This team is nothing but an embarassment to our town.


Why isn't every game in HD at this point anyway, regardless of who's playing? They've had a few years now to buy the equipment. I wish the Browns were on Fox. The picture looks way better to my eyes than CBS and the crowd in 5.1 is really nice.


At least Pittsburgh lost.


----------



## tf4

hi,


I am new to this forum. I live in Solon and am trying to pick up WKYC in Hi-Def. I am using an indoor Radio Shack hi def antenna. Unfortunately all I can get is a fuzzy ghosted image on channel 3. Fox 8 comes in the best and the Pats game is absolutely amazing looking. I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time. If anyone has had success in Solon please let me know!


I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi,
> 
> 
> I I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.



First, you can still get a used D-TiVo in ebay and it will be supported for the next 3 years. However as your probably aware that would require OTA for your locals which is your problem already.


Or....


You can sign up with Time Warner and get a TiVo Series 3. Get all your locals in HD and they won't be the mpeg 4 thing that D* is offering with their H-20. It's expensive but you would still have TiVo. If you go to the TiVo forum you can get one for around 700.00 which is a hundred less then you would pay retail.


I love mine!


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I keep trying, but their O-line just makes it harder and harder every week. This team is nothing but an embarassment to our town.
> 
> 
> Why isn't every game in HD at this point anyway, regardless of who's playing? They've had a few years now to buy the equipment. I wish the Browns were on Fox. The picture looks way better to my eyes than CBS and the crowd in 5.1 is really nice.
> 
> 
> At least Pittsburgh lost.



This was one of those games where I ask - why even bother to show up to play?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi,
> 
> 
> I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time.



If you haven't already, you may want to check the recommendations at http://www.antennaweb.org . This may give you the kind of info you're looking for down to your specific street address. It will at least tell you how likely you are to get the various stations based on different sized antennas.


Good luck!


----------



## tf4

Hookbill,


Awesome I am glad someone else here has a Tivo 3. I was looking at that as well.


Are you OK with the quality of the REGULAR non-hdtv broadcasts? I am not a huge fan of digital cable, it seems washed out and blocky to me. My brother-in-law has digital cable, granted it isn't on a nice TV set but I'd hate to invest $700 in a STB and have it not be very good.


Also how much does Warner charge for rental of 2 cable cards? I wish they would post figures on their site.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> Awesome I am glad someone else here has a Tivo 3. I was looking at that as well.
> 
> 
> Are you OK with the quality of the REGULAR non-hdtv broadcasts? I am not a huge fan of digital cable, it seems washed out and blocky to me. My brother-in-law has digital cable, granted it isn't on a nice TV set but I'd hate to invest $700 in a STB and have it not be very good.
> 
> 
> Also how much does Warner charge for rental of 2 cable cards? I wish they would post figures on their site.



Here's the deal. I used the cable companys SA 8300 for 2 years. Not being able to compare it with anything else as far as pq goes I just assumed that the really bad quality picture I got on standard definition was due to the cable. After I got the S3 however not only did the pq increase on HD but on SD programs it was extremely better, and I do mean extremely. Shows like Nip/Tuck on FX I enjoyed but suffered through the bad pictures. Now it's crystal clear, not HD quality but still much better.


TW charges 1.75 for the first card and 4.50 for the second per month. Don't ask me why, that's just the way it is.


Trust me. Get the S3. It's the way to go.


----------



## JJkizak

My uncle I believe has analog cable. He wants to go to HD. Will he have to get the digital cable package? He has one digital HDTV and 3 analog tv's.

JJK


----------



## JJkizak

Channel 3.1 OTA saturday college football game was the worst HD I have seen. However the 3.1 sunday night pro game was fantastic. What do they do to screw things up?

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My uncle I believe has analog cable. He wants to go to HD. Will he have to get the digital cable package? He has one digital HDTV and 3 analog tv's.
> 
> JJK



I think so but it depends. I assume his HDTV has an HD tuner. If so, then I would think he would have to get digital and cable cards. I think.


If he has an HD ready tv and he is thinking about an S3 then no, he wouldn't need it. However he would have no guide info.


I don't think they offer just an HD hook up anymore and that would mean the SA 8300. Either way, digital will be required.


----------



## tf4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the deal. I used the cable companys SA 8300 for 2 years. Not being able to compare it with anything else as far as pq goes I just assumed that the really bad quality picture I got on standard definition was due to the cable. After I got the S3 however not only did the pq increase on HD but on SD programs it was extremely better, and I do mean extremely. Shows like Nip/Tuck on FX I enjoyed but suffered through the bad pictures. Now it's crystal clear, not HD quality but still much better.
> 
> 
> TW charges 1.75 for the first card and 4.50 for the second per month. Don't ask me why, that's just the way it is.
> 
> 
> Trust me. Get the S3. It's the way to go.



I am going to call TW and see what the cost per month is relative to what I am paying. If you don't mind my asking isn't your cable bill over $100/m if you are paying for the Tivo service and extra boxes as well? All I need to make sure I get is Noggin for the kids, Food channel, "O' channel for wife and HBO. I think Noggin made it to their mid road tier for some reason.


Does the S3 have that 'home networking' option so I can basically watch it in another room with radio wave remotes? I like that feature that Dish Network has.


I am going to do some shopping on the net and see if I can land a S3 for under $700.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am going to call TW and see what the cost per month is relative to what I am paying. If you don't mind my asking isn't your cable bill over $100/m if you are paying for the Tivo service and extra boxes as well? All I need to make sure I get is Noggin for the kids, Food channel, "O' channel for wife and HBO. I think Noggin made it to their mid road tier for some reason.
> 
> 
> Does the S3 have that 'home networking' option so I can basically watch it in another room with radio wave remotes? I like that feature that Dish Network has.
> 
> 
> I am going to do some shopping on the net and see if I can land a S3 for under $700.



My bill is around 134.00 but that includes high speed internet and hbo with the Silver package. Noggin is in digital first tier and food network is in basic second tier (analog).


Right now the S3 does not have MRV, they are working with cable cards to get that going. It may be that HD will not be available that way, just SD but that's just a rumour. You can use the S3 to listen to music files or view photos on your television. Also right now eSATA is not available but we expect that fairly soon.


At this moment I'm not seeing anything under 800.00. Last week there was a sale and you could get it for 700.00 but that's over. Think about this though before you shop. If you buy cheaper can you get an extended warranty? If not I'm not sure I'd roll the dice. By purchasing at Circuit City I got a 3 year exteneded warrany with guaranteed replacement for 60.00. Also be very careful about where you buy. To the best of my knowledge the only other place that offered TiVo S3 cheaper was Costco. That would be a good buy if still available.


----------



## tf4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My bill is around 134.00 but that includes high speed internet and hbo with the Silver package. Noggin is in digital first tier and food network is in basic second tier (analog).
> 
> 
> Right now the S3 does not have MRV, they are working with cable cards to get that going. It may be that HD will not be available that way, just SD but that's just a rumour. You can use the S3 to listen to music files or view photos on your television. Also right now eSATA is not available but we expect that fairly soon.
> 
> 
> At this moment I'm not seeing anything under 800.00. Last week there was a sale and you could get it for 700.00 but that's over. Think about this though before you shop. If you buy cheaper can you get an extended warranty? If not I'm not sure I'd roll the dice. By purchasing at Circuit City I got a 3 year exteneded warrany with guaranteed replacement for 60.00. Also be very careful about where you buy. To the best of my knowledge the only other place that offered TiVo S3 cheaper was Costco. That would be a good buy if still available.




I just called and for the package I want silver/2 CC's/HBO It is going to be $75.45/m which is about as much as I pay for DirecTV right now. I'd have to eat this cost for the tivo though. I wish the price wasnt so expensive. I could just upgrade my DirecTV pay another $10.00 per month for the service and a 99.00 dvr charge. It would be cheaper in the short term then get the Tivo at a later date when the prices go down.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why isn't every game in HD at this point anyway, regardless of who's playing? They've had a few years now to buy the equipment.



On the 17th, while attending the Radio Club of America banquet in New York City, I had the opportunity to speak to the Sony VP in charge of HD equipment for the U.S. market as well as the former (just retired) chief engineer of the PBS station in NYC. They gave me answers to two questions that keep popping up here on this forum:

*1. Why doesn't CBS broadcast all NFL games in HD?*

The main reason given is the shortage of production trailers. There is only one company that integrates all of the equipment necessary into mobile trailers/vans and they cannot keep up with demand. Evidently, they have only been able to deliver 4 - 6 trailers per year and Fox, ABC and ESPN plus some of the regional sports networks had orders in before CBS did.

*2. Why can't/don't the locals "time-shift" HD programming?*

(We've heard many answers to this one over the year or so I've been on this board.) They say the equipment to studio-record HD is commonly available and that an hour's worth of HD programming typically is compressed into about 40 GB of memory storage. Digital tape is more common, but hard drive storage equipment is also available. They say nobody records uncompressed video, since that's the way it is stored transmitted by the network. They said the most plausible answer to the question is $$$ - where the stations in this market choose to budget their money.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night I had an interesting night of (unintentional) DXing...all analog:
> 
> 
> I am NOT an experienced DX'er at all...so I don't know if it's tropo ducting, e-skip or what, but I've gotten stuff on almost every station on the dial tonight...
> 
> 
> I have NOT MOVED my rooftop antenna, and from Akron, OH was getting (all analog):
> 
> 
> -WGRZ Channel 2, ABC, Buffalo
> 
> -WDIV NBC, Channel 4, Detroit
> 
> -WKBW ABC 7, Buffalo, might also be WXYZ Detroit, also an ABC on Channel 7
> 
> -CBET Channel 9, CBC, Windsor, Ontario
> 
> -CPFL Channel 10, London, Ontario
> 
> -WBKB Channel 11, CBS, Alpena, MI
> 
> -WJRT Channel 12, ABC, Flint, MI
> 
> -Channel 13, CTV (this one was as crystal-clear as my locals, might have been out of Ottawa since I don't know any other CTV on Channel 13 to the north of here)
> 
> -WNED Channel 17, PBS Buffalo (OVER TOP of WDLI, it's overpowering it and I don't see WDLI at all!)
> 
> -WDJT-TV Channel 58, CBS, Milwaukee (for about a minute or so)
> 
> -WWJ CBS 62, Detroit
> 
> -Presumably CJMT-TV Channel 69 in Toronto
> 
> 
> I also got blips of several other stations, mostly Canadian ones on the UHF dial that I couldn't find online, I think they may have been translators of the above ones.





On Wednesday night, I was watching WVIZ-TV on Time Warner Cable Channel 2 here in North Canton and getting a clear broadcast of Channel 25 somewhere in Central Michigan. I'm guessing Time Warner picks up that channel via OTA antenna and was simply re-transmitting what it was getting--Channel 25 in Michigan overriding Channel 25 in Cleveland.


----------



## pogamoggan1

Hi,


Just wondering what channels are available over Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland suburbs? Wondering if getting a QAM tuner would be useful or not.


Thanks.


Poga


----------



## geocab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the 17th, while attending the Radio Club of America banquet in New York City, I had the opportunity to speak to the Sony VP in charge of HD equipment for the U.S. market as well as the former (just retired) chief engineer of the PBS station in NYC. They gave me answers to two questions that keep popping up here on this forum:
> 
> *1. Why doesn't CBS broadcast all NFL games in HD?*
> 
> The main reason given is the shortage of production trailers. There is only one company that integrates all of the equipment necessary into mobile trailers/vans and they cannot keep up with demand. Evidently, they have only been able to deliver 4 - 6 trailers per year and Fox, ABC and ESPN plus some of the regional sports networks had orders in before CBS did.
> 
> *2. Why can't/don't the locals "time-shift" HD programming?*
> 
> (We've heard many answers to this one over the year or so I've been on this board.) They say the equipment to studio-record HD is commonly available and that an hour's worth of HD programming typically is compressed into about 40 GB of memory storage. Digital tape is more common, but hard drive storage equipment is also available. They say nobody records uncompressed video, since that's the way it is stored transmitted by the network. They said the most plausible answer to the question is $$$ - where the stations in this market choose to budget their money.



Thanks for the answer.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pogamoggan1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Just wondering what channels are available over Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland suburbs? Wondering if getting a QAM tuner would be useful or not.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Poga



Since it's your first post I won't lecture you to much, but let's just say Google is your friend.









http://www.timewarnercable.com/Media...ub_072006c.pdf


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since it's your first post I won't lecture you to much, but let's just say Google is your friend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/Media...ub_072006c.pdf



One can ascertain which channels are in QAM format from that document, but it doesn't indicate which of those are in the clear. AFAIK, the HD versions of the broadcast channels are in the clear and maybe one or two other channels. You won't see HBO or other premium services in "clear QAM" on any cable system.


Thus far there are no PCs that will directly support CableCards for the encrypted channels. Microsoft has announced that Vista will support CableCards but only on a specially-built pc that employes a "protected path" for the video content.


CK


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> I am new to this forum. I live in Solon and am trying to pick up WKYC in Hi-Def. I am using an indoor Radio Shack hi def antenna. Unfortunately all I can get is a fuzzy ghosted image on channel 3. Fox 8 comes in the best and the Pats game is absolutely amazing looking. I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time. If anyone has had success in Solon please let me know!



Are you sure you are getting HDTV? An antenna is an antenna. Having one that is marketed as a "Hi-Def antenna" will not give you HD if you don't have a digital tuner. Likewise I have pulled in HD with a 10 year old set top antenna. A digital signal will not be fuzzy or ghosted. It will be perfectly clear, have some pixelation or not be there at all. Make sure you are using a digital tuner that adheres to the ATSC standard, otherwise you are not getting HD.


I pick up all DTV channels from Cleveland (3,5,8,19,43,61) OTA from N. Canton which is about 35 miles from the towers according to antennaweb. A medium rooftop antenna should be good enough for you to pull all of these in perfectly clear. I have poor images on 3 and 5 over analog but am still able to tune the digital signal.


I have only ever viewed HD OTA but from what I read HD over cable or D* will be lower quality since the providers compress the signal in order to be able to provide more channels. In other words the best HD is OTA from what I have read on these forums and other places.


----------



## hookbill

Last night my wife went to the eye doctor and came home with some contact lenses. She said they were the same prescription she had for her eye glasses. My wife has maintained for the past two years she cannot tell the difference between SD and HD.


So we set down to watch TV. Shark was the first show. She says, "Honey, have you done something to the TV?" I said no. She said, "But it looks really different. I mean it's so much..." she struggled a bit and I said, "almost like your looking out a window?" She said, "Yes, exactly. It almost looks 3D too." I said, "Congratulations, you can now see HD."


She commented throughout the evening and when we watched a SD show she admitted she could see the difference.


I know I've heard a couple other guys out there say there wives don't get it. May I suggest contacts?


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am new to this forum. I live in Solon and am trying to pick up WKYC in Hi-Def. I am using an indoor Radio Shack hi def antenna. Unfortunately all I can get is a fuzzy ghosted image on channel 3. Fox 8 comes in the best and the Pats game is absolutely amazing looking. I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time. If anyone has had success in Solon please let me know!



I'm due east of you in Bainbridge & pick-up the HD feeds for 3-5-8-19-43 (plus a few others) fairly reliably (occasional dropouts in rain/wind but overall pretty reliable of late) with a Winegard SquareShooter and pre-amplifier which are mounted on a 2nd level deck facing due west & the Parma antenna farm. I do live on a hill so I have good elevation and no hills higher than me between Bainbridge and Parma.


I'd be surprised if you could get reliable reception on 3 with an indoor in Solon unless you had optimal conditions. A roof mount should work for you OK in Solon, at least presuming you're not in a valley, but you may need a pre-amp depending on what antenna you go with.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.



I have 2 D* HD Tivos and just added an HR20 to "test drive" it before making the leap. My HR20 has only flaked once requiring a reboot that I've noticed in a little over a month. The fast forward takes some getting used to relative to the Tivo, but I'm mostly using it for overflow/backup recordings currently so it's not getting the daily use the Tivos do. One silver lining was it snared Survivor last Thursday when both Tivos had blank recordings OTA - I'm presuming the odd atmospheric conditions last week brought in analog 10 from Canada too strongly which killed the 19-1 OTA broadcast for me, but the D* MPEG4 feed was unaffected. Made the wife happy.


You might consider looking for an HR10-250 Tivo unit on Ebay or through a place like Value Electronics (forum sponsor & a very good vendor) if you decide to stay Tivo/D* - that'll keep your wife happy w/Tivo & you can probably get setup with a 2nd HR20 if you get the right rep & are willing to pay the extra $5 per month for an extra box to get a feel for if it's too buggy or not for your tastes. 'Course you'll still need an OTA to drive the HD-Tivo for locals so maybe that's no help...


Good luck - an OTA mount is worth it, to get the HD locals FWIW. Nothing beats HD football...


----------



## kinglerch

I have a E* question. I don't know if it has been answered before, but it is often hard on this forum to search for generic terms like 'E*', 'dish', 'sports', etc. But I read that Dish Network (E*) was adding regional sports networks in HD this fall. I guess they have already done so in some markets.


What is the status of FSN Ohio in HD on Dish Network? Is there a date when/if it will be?


----------



## Brian81

I lost 43-1 yesterday.



Also, every now and then HD BONUS channel (normally #798) will be on the TNT HD channel #779 and HD BONUS chennel #798 will be empty. What is up with this?



FYI - Time Warner customer.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night my wife went to the eye doctor and came home with some contact lenses. She said they were the same prescription she had for her eye glasses. My wife has maintained for the past two years she cannot tell the difference between SD and HD.
> 
> 
> So we set down to watch TV. Shark was the first show. She says, "Honey, have you done something to the TV?" I said no. She said, "But it looks really different. I mean it's so much..." she struggled a bit and I said, "almost like your looking out a window?" She said, "Yes, exactly. It almost looks 3D too." I said, "Congratulations, you can now see HD."
> 
> 
> She commented throughout the evening and when we watched a SD show she admitted she could see the difference.
> 
> 
> I know I've heard a couple other guys out there say there wives don't get it. May I suggest contacts?



Many women don't get it. I don't understand how they can see the value in owning 33 pairs of shoes but can't tell the difference between SD and HD...


----------



## akron05

OK everyone - a slightly off-topic question:


Are Monster Cable products any better than the cheapo cables or not? Or do they just "look" cool?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK everyone - a slightly off-topic question:
> 
> 
> Are Monster Cable products any better than the cheapo cables or not? Or do they just "look" cool?



I have heard that some video/audiophiles can see the difference, but imho the only difference is in price. I stumbled into a pair of Monster optical digital audio cables at Target of all places on sale for 6 bucks. That's ridiculously cheap for Monster so I bought them but I also got a pair on line for like 5.00. I don't hear any difference.


I was also talked into Monster Cables when I first got my HDTV. Not knowing there were cheaper available I bought them. Once I found cheaper ones I bought them and returned the Monster Cables. I couldn't tell any difference.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have heard that some video/audiophiles can see the difference, but imho the only difference is in price. I stumbled into a pair of Monster optical digital audio cables at Target of all places on sale for 6 bucks. That's ridiculously cheap for Monster so I bought them but I also got a pair on line for like 5.00. I don't hear any difference.
> 
> 
> I was also talked into Monster Cables when I first got my HDTV. Not knowing there were cheaper available I bought them. Once I found cheaper ones I bought them and returned the Monster Cables. I couldn't tell any difference.



I've used both, too, and haven't noticed a difference. Good speaker wire, but not necessarily Monster, is good for the surround sound, but I've found good price cables, which seem to be very well made, on sites like monoprice.com.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a E* question. I don't know if it has been answered before, but it is often hard on this forum to search for generic terms like 'E*', 'dish', 'sports', etc. But I read that Dish Network (E*) was adding regional sports networks in HD this fall. I guess they have already done so in some markets.
> 
> 
> What is the status of FSN Ohio in HD on Dish Network? Is there a date when/if it will be?


 Read this previous posting regarding E* LiL's and regional sports in HD......


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> Read this previous posting regarding E* LiL's and regional sports in HD......



That was such an exact answer to my question and only a few weeks ago, you'd think I could have found it, but oh well...thanks for the help.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK everyone - a slightly off-topic question:
> 
> 
> Are Monster Cable products any better than the cheapo cables or not? Or do they just "look" cool?



This is a question that rarely gets a satisfactory answer. The companies who make the cables show the difference on an analyzer. Audiophiles buy Monster cable (a friend of mine buys even more expensive) and claim they can tell the difference. When you spend the extra $, you may notice a difference that isn't there.


I remember a test on a popular website, maybe hometheatrespot. They hooked up everything the same, listened to a variety of material, and compared the cables. I think they liked one of the middle brands (i.e. not Monster and not crap cables).


IMO, you can look at cables from a more educated point of view. How much resistance is in the cable? What is the distance? What is the cable trying to do? What information is it carrying?


For example, if it is an optical or other digital cable, no one will ever convince me a Monster cable will make a difference. If the distance to each speaker is short, there is no interference from other components, and the resistance of any cable is small, I can't imagine how/why the cable would make a difference. But on the other side, if the distance is far (higher resistance) and/or you are running through areas of possible interference...a thicker more shielded cable would be a better choice.


----------



## JJkizak

If you want to expand your knowledge of cables and results you can try the "Klipsch Forum"where they talk about $5000.00 hookup cables with amps in them or silver wire versus copper wire. Some people actually say they can see/hear the difference. I believe it is all interactive balogney. The one thread I really appreciated was the guy that used old coat hangers and said he could hear the difference.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is a question that rarely gets a satisfactory answer. The companies who make the cables show the difference on an analyzer. Audiophiles buy Monster cable (a friend of mine buys even more expensive) and claim they can tell the difference. When you spend the extra $, you may notice a difference that isn't there.
> 
> 
> I remember a test on a popular website, maybe hometheatrespot. They hooked up everything the same, listened to a variety of material, and compared the cables. I think they liked one of the middle brands (i.e. not Monster and not crap cables).
> 
> 
> IMO, you can look at cables from a more educated point of view. How much resistance is in the cable? What is the distance? What is the cable trying to do? What information is it carrying?
> 
> 
> For example, if it is an optical or other digital cable, no one will ever convince me a Monster cable will make a difference. If the distance to each speaker is short, there is no interference from other components, and the resistance of any cable is small, I can't imagine how/why the cable would make a difference. But on the other side, if the distance is far (higher resistance) and/or you are running through areas of possible interference...a thicker more shielded cable would be a better choice.



You bring up some good points about distance and interference. Probably the better shielded cables would be your best bet (monster), but unless the interference is noticeable the best way to go for most people is with decent quality but less expensive cables. Everything I have read points to the average HD user not truly being a videophile. We may have some of those here in this forum but I'll bet you that at least 90% of the people who purchase an HD television don't have a clue about the cables. I bought Monster because I was at Best Buy and the guy said you need these cables. I looked at the price and said, "anything cheaper?" and he said no. Only a week later because I was a member of this forum did I find out different.


And for what it's worth the cables the cable company gives out arn't bad. When they took my SA 8300 back I told them I was using the cables elsewhere and they said they didn't care. They didn't even take the remote.


Also I'll be over 90% of the average HD viewers don't have a clue about tuneing up their HD sets.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You bring up some good points about distance and interference. Probably the better shielded cables would be your best bet (monster), but unless the interference is noticeable the best way to go for most people is with decent quality but less expensive cables. Everything I have read points to the average HD user not truly being a videophile. We may have some of those here in this forum but I'll bet you that at least 90% of the people who purchase an HD television don't have a clue about the cables. I bought Monster because I was at Best Buy and the guy said you need these cables. I looked at the price and said, "anything cheaper?" and he said no. Only a week later because I was a member of this forum did I find out different.
> 
> 
> And for what it's worth the cables the cable company gives out arn't bad. When they took my SA 8300 back I told them I was using the cables elsewhere and they said they didn't care. They didn't even take the remote.
> 
> 
> Also I'll be over 90% of the average HD viewers don't have a clue about tuneing up their HD sets.



I don't know HOW MANY people I've run into that had no idea that they weren't watching any real HD because they were connecting their cable through the RF input on an HD-ready TV (w/no ATSC tuner, which means it was being downconverted to analog RF) as opposed to component or HDMI. Or worse yet, didn't even have a source of HD and assumed they were watching Hi-Def. And they wondered why they "didn't notice that much of a difference."


----------



## rRooster

I totally agree on the fact that most people that get an HDTV are clueless. I had both a neighbor and my grandparents buy $1500+ flat screen LCD's and tell me they didn't see a difference. On further investigation (going to their homes)

I found neither were using an HD source.


I think people just like the stigma of having a flat panel in their home?


neighbors' TV didn't have a QAM tuner - and when I suggested a Cable Box - They said $10 a month was too much - I don't get it


-on the bright side though


Grandpa got the box and has since gotten really into HD football and Discovery Programs


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I totally agree on the fact that most people that get an HDTV are clueless. I had both a neighbor and my grandparents buy $1500+ flat screen LCD's and tell me they didn't see a difference. On further investigation (going to their homes)
> 
> I found neither were using an HD source.
> 
> 
> I think people just like the stigma of having a flat panel in their home?
> 
> 
> neighbors' TV didn't have a QAM tuner - and when I suggested a Cable Box - They said $10 a month was too much - I don't get it
> 
> 
> -on the bright side though
> 
> 
> Grandpa got the box and has since gotten really into HD football and Discovery Programs



Maybe the neighbors spend their last $10 a month on the TV payment...


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I totally agree on the fact that most people that get an HDTV are clueless. I had both a neighbor and my grandparents buy $1500+ flat screen LCD's and tell me they didn't see a difference. On further investigation (going to their homes)
> 
> I found neither were using an HD source.
> 
> 
> I think people just like the stigma of having a flat panel in their home?
> 
> 
> neighbors' TV didn't have a QAM tuner - and when I suggested a Cable Box - They said $10 a month was too much - I don't get it
> 
> 
> -on the bright side though
> 
> 
> Grandpa got the box and has since gotten really into HD football and Discovery Programs



Was at my fiance's parents house earlier this year and her dad was going on about this gread DLP HDTV he had but that the picture wasn't as good as in the store even though he had subscribed to HD service from his cable company. He remarked that even the hi-def programs on the HD channels themselves looked the same. I hooked the cable box up through the component video and suddenly he said "wow, that is a lot better." He had it hooked up either through s-video or RF, dunno which, and it was the GUY AT THE CABLE COMPANY that had done it that way!


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hate to break this to you but the CW is not in "HD" in Youngstown. Digital, yes, but it's an SD subchannel of WFMJ-DT (Rf 20). This is also true of the FOX affilliate WYFX which is an SD subchannel of WKBN-DT (Rf 41) and My-TV (or My "YTV" as they like to call it) which is an SD subchannel of WYTV-DT (Rf 36).
> 
> 
> In one respest WBCB (The Youngstown CW) is better than WBNX if only for the fact that they are digital. But "digital" does not always equal "HD".



Is WBNX's digital stick up and running yet?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WBNX's digital stick up and running yet?



No, not until spring '07.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, not until spring '07.



They had previously said they had hoped to have it running for cable and satellite by November, however that has not occurred.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They had previously said they had hoped to have it running for cable and satellite by November, however that has not occurred.



IIRC we're waiting on:


WBNX

WAKC


That's it, I think...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And for what it's worth the cables the cable company gives out arn't bad. When they took my SA 8300 back I told them I was using the cables elsewhere and they said they didn't care. They didn't even take the remote.



A friend of mine who sells HD cable sets dissected one of hers as well as one of those expensive cables, then she passed them around for examination. Her HDMI cable was something like 10 bucks and the competing store-brand product was ten times that cost.


Do you think we saw much of a difference? Nope.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IIRC we're waiting on:
> 
> 
> WBNX
> 
> WAKC
> 
> 
> That's it, I think...



I think it's WBNX and WNEO.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it's WBNX and WNEO.



WNEO/WEAO is up IIRC.


----------



## clevemkt

WAKC became WVPX 8 years ago. Waiting for incore channel IIRC

WNEO is Youngstown mkt.

WEAO is Cleveland-Akron (Canton) mkt.


WNEO has been DTV since Nov '03.

WEAO has been DTV since Aug '04.


----------



## hookbill

Sorry guys, I'm sure it's WNEO. That's what is listed in Zap2it.com and also you can look here at the Time Warner lineup for our area. Also handsworth, who is always right told us that it would be WNEO and also Universal Channel but he did not say when.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They had previously said they had hoped to have it running for cable and satellite by November, however that has not occurred.



The WBNX website actually says the cable feed was supposed to happen in late October. I sent them an email to programming asking for an update but all I got in reply was an error message from their mail server saying that mailbox was full. I guess that means nobody looks at it anyway. Does anyone have an email address of a real person at WBNX?


----------



## HD MM

Looks like this Sunday's Browns game is to be broadcast in beautiful 1080i on CBS-HD. Maybe we should all hold our breath on this one since CBS pulled the plug on their HD promises last week......

http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/13-CBS.gif


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like this Sunday's Browns game is to be broadcast in beautiful 1080i on CBS-HD. Maybe we should all hold our breath on this one since CBS pulled the plug on their HD promises last week......
> 
> http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/13-CBS.gif



I'm not much on sit coms but I'll tune in.







What does it matter at this point if it's in HD, SD, or for that matter braille. These guys suck no matter how you look at them.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WAKC became WVPX 8 years ago. Waiting for incore channel IIRC
> 
> WNEO is Youngstown mkt.
> 
> WEAO is Cleveland-Akron (Canton) mkt.
> 
> 
> WNEO has been DTV since Nov '03.
> 
> WEAO has been DTV since Aug '04.



Whoops - yes it became WVPX when Paxson bought it. I'm so used to calling it WAKC though.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not much on sit coms but I'll tune in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does it matter at this point if it's in HD, SD, or for that matter braille. These guys suck no matter how you look at them.



At least we can watch them get their butts kicked in HD...


----------



## clevemkt

Sorry guys, I'm sure it's WNEO. That's what is listed in Zap2it.com and also you can look here at the Time Warner lineup for our area. Also handsworth, who is always right told us that it would be WNEO and also Universal Channel but he did not say when.



When PBS 45 & 49 begin HD again, TWC will be using WEAO...believe me. (Despite what their marketing folks think)


----------



## akron05

What's the diff? It's identical to WNEO. From a Cable perspective you don't really know which one they are sending over the lines. I'd assume they'd use WEAO for better reception from the recieving station or what-ever-you-call-it but does it really matter?


----------



## Brian81

Does Time Warner (Cleveland) still have Cinemax HD? Just curious as the local channel listings aren't listed on Time Warner's site, and the closest ones I could find that had a listing available was Akron or Medina, and neither listed Cinemax HD, just Showtime HD and HBO HD. Time Warner isn't dropping channels, are they?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does Time Warner (Cleveland) still have Cinemax HD? Just curious as the local channel listings aren't listed on Time Warner's site, and the closest ones I could find that had a listing available was Akron or Medina, and neither listed Cinemax HD, just Showtime HD and HBO HD. Time Warner isn't dropping channels, are they?



Cinemax is still available in HD, along with HBO, Showtime, Starz. I don't recall if The Movie Channel was. Here's an adobe lineup with all their channels, it doesn't list the premium in the HD tier but they are available if you subscribe.


----------



## Argee

Any DirecTV subscribers been without ch19 HD for today? I know of at least one other NE Ohio person who says its gone. I have not called DTV yet but curious what is going on?


----------



## atperson100

Any ETA rumors for WEWS news in HD? I read it was supposed to happen by the end of 2006.. We're nearing 2007 now.


----------



## gnalmij




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any DirecTV subscribers been without ch19 HD for today? I know of at least one other NE Ohio person who says its gone. I have not called DTV yet but curious what is going on?



Worked OK for me this evening, with a few seconds of pixelation.


----------



## Argee

Ok they (DirecTV) got my two HD receivers reset and I am getting 19 HD Mpeg 4 feed. Another guy posted on DBSTALK that he had lost 19 HD as well so something must have burped last night for at least two of us!


----------



## bgiese

I lost 19-HD on Saturday and after calling them (5pm) I still couldn't get it back.

They had me reboot, reprogram, unhook the converters, and they even deactivated my smartcard --- nothing worked -- I still couldn't get 19-HD.


They tried to tell me the problem must be in Cleveland. I called WOIO and confirmed they were broadcasting in HD and found out several people had been calling them.


Then last night the channel started working again.


This morning it was out for me again. I called DirecTv and they had me to a reboot and now the channel is working again.


The reboot didn't work yesterday (at least not immediately) but today it did.


----------



## hopefulhdtvguy

Has anyone else had problems with Fox 8.1 Audio? I am using an OTA installed on my roof and my video is excellent. A few months ago, we noticed the volume used to fluctuate. It wasn't constantly happening, but some days it would happen every 15 minutes or so. It stopped doing that for a few weeks and now the sound will drop out completely. It lasts about 15 to 20 seconds and can occur within 5 minutes of the last drop. Sometimes it can go days without a problem, but I noticed it happens more often on Sundays during football games and prime time shows. There are no audio problems with the SD transmission on DirecTV; so I'm wondering if it's the transmission or maybe my antenna.


This is frustrating because now my wife wants the TiVo to record the Fox SD channels rather than the HD, because of the audio drop-outs.


Any ideas?


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hopefulhdtvguy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with Fox 8.1 Audio? I am using an OTA installed on my roof and my video is excellent. A few months ago, we noticed the volume used to fluctuate. It wasn't constantly happening, but some days it would happen every 15 minutes or so. It stopped doing that for a few weeks and now the sound will drop out completely. It lasts about 15 to 20 seconds and can occur within 5 minutes of the last drop. Sometimes it can go days without a problem, but I noticed it happens more often on Sundays during football games and prime time shows. There are no audio problems with the SD transmission on DirecTV; so I'm wondering if it's the transmission or maybe my antenna.
> 
> 
> This is frustrating because now my wife wants the TiVo to record the Fox SD channels rather than the HD, because of the audio drop-outs.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?



I haven't had any audio problems with my OTA reception of Fox 8.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hopefulhdtvguy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with Fox 8.1 Audio? I am using an OTA installed on my roof and my video is excellent. A few months ago, we noticed the volume used to fluctuate. It wasn't constantly happening, but some days it would happen every 15 minutes or so. It stopped doing that for a few weeks and now the sound will drop out completely. It lasts about 15 to 20 seconds and can occur within 5 minutes of the last drop. Sometimes it can go days without a problem, but I noticed it happens more often on Sundays during football games and prime time shows. There are no audio problems with the SD transmission on DirecTV; so I'm wondering if it's the transmission or maybe my antenna.
> 
> 
> This is frustrating because now my wife wants the TiVo to record the Fox SD channels rather than the HD, because of the audio drop-outs.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?



What are you using for an OTA tuner and/or audio amp?


This is going back a couple years, but I remember having audio glitches during Fox live sporting events. I can't say I've noticed any audio problems in recent memory. I have an Onkyo TX-SR701 A/V receiver for the audio, connected to a WOW cable SA8300HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hopefulhdtvguy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with Fox 8.1 Audio? I am using an OTA installed on my roof and my video is excellent. A few months ago, we noticed the volume used to fluctuate. It wasn't constantly happening, but some days it would happen every 15 minutes or so. It stopped doing that for a few weeks and now the sound will drop out completely. It lasts about 15 to 20 seconds and can occur within 5 minutes of the last drop. Sometimes it can go days without a problem, but I noticed it happens more often on Sundays during football games and prime time shows. There are no audio problems with the SD transmission on DirecTV; so I'm wondering if it's the transmission or maybe my antenna.
> 
> 
> This is frustrating because now my wife wants the TiVo to record the Fox SD channels rather than the HD, because of the audio drop-outs.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?



I'm not having any audio drop outs on FOX, via TW cable. I did have some bad audio drop outs on Ghost Whisperer last week. It was the first time.


All shows recorded on the TiVo S3, the worlds finest DVR.


----------



## hopefulhdtvguy

I am using a DirecTiVo HD HR10-250 and a Sony ES Receiver. I am getting all the other digital feeds okay.


----------



## Inundated

OK, hookbill. Are you sitting down?


Yes, I finally have a *real* HDTV set in the living room.


OK, so I snuck in the back door via a $699 32" Westinghouse LCD model, but it's a real one!



















The above from my recording of today's Browns/Chiefs game on the SA8000HD...and boy, am I already getting picky about macroblocking on football games!!!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, hookbill. Are you sitting down?
> 
> 
> Yes, I finally have a *real* HDTV set in the living room.
> 
> 
> OK, so I snuck in the back door via a $699 32" Westinghouse LCD model, but it's a real one!
> 
> The above from my recording of today's Browns/Chiefs game on the SA8000HD...and boy, am I already getting picky about macroblocking on football games!!!



It's about time you finally caved !!










Welcome to *real* HDTV. The new Westy looks great.


----------



## hookbill

OK, glad to see it. Now how are you going to record your HD shows? Might I recommend the TiVo S3?







I think today is the last day that you can pick one up from the TiVo Forum show with 150.00 instant rebate.


Nice price on the set.


You were watching HD on your LCD computer screen, correct?


And look you brought The Browns good luck! That's the best game they played all year. And now we get to have a QuarterBack controversy!


----------



## Inundated

I'm considering an S3, actually. I'm not sure I want to spend more on it than I spent on this set (!!), but I'm running into the SA8000HD's limitations rather quickly.


I'm actually thinking of swapping out for an 8300, and if I'm not happy with that, down the road...you know? Hey, it took me this long.


Doesn't the 8300 have PQ improvements over the 8000? Again, it's no TiVo S3 (believe me, you don't have to sell me on a TiVo vs. a cable DVR), but it wouldn't cost me $800 or whatever discount I could get on the S3. Not getting it today - my credit card is already screaming.










I was indeed watching HDTV on my PC with the Fusion5USB. I can still do that downstairs, if I so desire. But I've been using that on the go more than not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm considering an S3, actually. I'm not sure I want to spend more on it than I spent on this set (!!), but I'm running into the SA8000HD's limitations rather quickly.
> 
> 
> I'm actually thinking of swapping out for an 8300, and if I'm not happy with that, down the road...you know? Hey, it took me this long.
> 
> 
> Doesn't the 8300 have PQ improvements over the 8000? Again, it's no TiVo S3 (believe me, you don't have to sell me on a TiVo vs. a cable DVR), but it wouldn't cost me $800 or whatever discount I could get on the S3. Not getting it today - my credit card is already screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was indeed watching HDTV on my PC with the Fusion5USB. I can still do that downstairs, if I so desire. But I've been using that on the go more than not.



In all honesty I didn't see any improvement pq wise between the 8000 and the 8300. The part that really gets me as far as pq goes is how bad some of the analog stations came in.


Now here's where the S3 really steps up to the plate. PQ on analog IMHO is actually better then on the digital channels (HD excluded). Channels like FX and USA which really came in ugly on both the SA units are so much clearer and crisp.


But do it your way. Actually the S3 cost the same as my HDTV, but my TV is 2 years old now.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm considering an S3, actually. I'm not sure I want to spend more on it than I spent on this set (!!), but I'm running into the SA8000HD's limitations rather quickly.
> 
> 
> I'm actually thinking of swapping out for an 8300, and if I'm not happy with that, down the road...you know? Hey, it took me this long.
> 
> 
> Doesn't the 8300 have PQ improvements over the 8000? Again, it's no TiVo S3 (believe me, you don't have to sell me on a TiVo vs. a cable DVR), but it wouldn't cost me $800 or whatever discount I could get on the S3. Not getting it today - my credit card is already screaming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was indeed watching HDTV on my PC with the Fusion5USB. I can still do that downstairs, if I so desire. But I've been using that on the go more than not.



You should definitely swap for the SA8300HD, it won't cost you anything and you'll get a better box. Off the top of my head, improvements are HDMI and quicker channel changes. The disk also seems to run a lot quieter. I could always hear the SA8000HD churning away in the living room.


The archive search function here is pretty bad, so I can't find the exact post, but yes, the SA8300HD provides more visible resolution than the SA8000HD. Something about a better ATI video chipset and/or video drivers. Like hook says, I can't really see that difference, but I've never hooked up a true 1080p set to it to tell the difference. Usually got a 1024x768 plasma hooked up to it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But do it your way. Actually the S3 cost the same as my HDTV, but my TV is 2 years old now.



Well, I'll "do it your way" if you promise to pay for my S3.







Remember how long it took me to get to this point!


I asked about the PQ improvement between the 8000 and 8300 because I thought I'd seen somewhere (even from you) that there was. I suppose that means nothing compared to the S3, tho.


Again, I don't need to be sold on it. But we're talking no cost but the hassle of swapping boxes for the 8000 vs. 8300, vs. the cost of the S3. I'll probably eventually end up getting it, though I worry that TWC could switch on SDV - which would make those cable cards useless for the channels that do SDV.


----------



## hookbill

I admit I did say that I thought the pq was better on the 8300 then the 8000. I ran mine on 480p and I thought there was some improvement. Now I'm not so sure.


Funny how when you get something like the S3 your mind becomes a bit clouded on those issues.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should definitely swap for the SA8300HD, it won't cost you anything and you'll get a better box. Off the top of my head, improvements are HDMI and quicker channel changes. The disk also seems to run a lot quieter. I could always hear the SA8000HD churning away in the living room.



Ah, I discovered the HDMI problem when I looked behind my SA8000HD tonight and tried to hook up the new set to the HDMI input. Only DVI.










I'd go get a DVI to HDMI adapter, but I don't know if that'll work...and if I swap out for an 8300, I'd be wasting money buying it anyway...


This thing does look good over component, tho. But I can tell that the OTA ATSC picture for WJW FOX 8 is better than the one coming out of the 8000. I don't know if that's any compression TWC is doing, or if the 8300 would look better because of better resolution vs. the 8000, or want.


What I *really* want is the TiVo S3, but see above.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I admit I did say that I thought the pq was better on the 8300 then the 8000. I ran mine on 480p and I thought there was some improvement. Now I'm not so sure.
> 
> 
> Funny how when you get something like the S3 your mind becomes a bit clouded on those issues.



Umm, hookbill? Holidays are here. Give your favorite board poster the gift of an S3. I'll even pick up the TiVo service fees!










Seriously, though...the swap out for an 8300 is the Path of Least Resistance, if I can get them to just let me bring in the 8000 and swap for a new one. It costs me no more than the 8000 does, and if there's even a slight improvement in PQ, so much the better.


And maybe when the S3 drops closer to the under $500 range...I can justify it to my budget...


----------



## burgher

Also, glad to report that D*'s mpeg 4 feed of 19.1 was encoded properly yesterday. No more fake (pre-recorded) looking football games !!!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Umm, hookbill? Holidays are here. Give your favorite board poster the gift of an S3. I'll even pick up the TiVo service fees!



Although I would truly love for you to experience the S3 enough to want to purchase one for you, I have this thing about not wanting to die. And truly death would be what would happen to me the moment my wife found out I did something like that. So trust me, it's not that I don't have giving spirit. It's my desire to breathe in and out that prevents me from doing that.


I'll tell you what. After you get your 8300 set up and check it all out I'll invite you to my house to look at the S3. Then when you leave Circuit City is right close by and you can pick one up on the way home (if they have them in stock).


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should definitely swap for the SA8300HD, it won't cost you anything and you'll get a better box. Off the top of my head, improvements are HDMI and quicker channel changes. The disk also seems to run a lot quieter. I could always hear the SA8000HD churning away in the living room.
> 
> 
> The archive search function here is pretty bad, so I can't find the exact post, but yes, the SA8300HD provides more visible resolution than the SA8000HD. Something about a better ATI video chipset and/or video drivers. Like hook says, I can't really see that difference, but I've never hooked up a true 1080p set to it to tell the difference. Usually got a 1024x768 plasma hooked up to it.



I'll second that. Once I got my SA8300-to-Panasonic 44" RPLCD video interface configured properly, my SD picture quality is excellent. In fact, the other nite we wound up watching a movie the wife recorded from LMN which was in letterbox format. I expanded it to fill the screen and was amazed with the quality. With my set, I wound up configuring the output of the 8300 to 720p to match the native resolution of the Panny (I'm using component video).


Some differences I found between the 8000 and 8300:

- The PIP is higher resolution

- Channel change is much faster

- Digital audio output is available from all channels, not just the digital ones.

- Has optical digital audio out in addition to RCA jack PCM audio.

- Has a much larger hard drive.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I admit I did say that I thought the pq was better on the 8300 then the 8000. I ran mine on 480p and I thought there was some improvement. Now I'm not so sure.
> 
> 
> Funny how when you get something like the S3 your mind becomes a bit clouded on those issues.



Especially when you spend all that money!!!!


----------



## akron05

Slightly off-topic, but a peeve/observation.


I am amazed at HOW MANY people, even with a decent analog TV, have satellite or digital cable, plus a DVD, plus a VCR and have NO IDEA that they can connect ALL THREE of the components through something other than the RF input on their TV and get a better quality picture in the process. And not have such a complicated setup.


I was at a friend's house the other night, and he had his DISH box running into the VCR, and the VCR into the TV through the RF input, with his DVD on an RF modulator AND A SWITCHER for the RF input.


The guy had two s-video outputs w/ audio inputs on his damn TV!!! And another set of A/V inputs w/composite video. With a few cables he still had in the closet that came with all the components, I showed him how to hook them in and use the three "auxillary" channels to run everything and get a noticeably clearer picture. Esp. since it appears his TV's internal tuner isn't that great anyway. He actually exclaimed "holy ****" when I had his DISH box turned on and first hooked up the S-video, switching the TV from Channel 2 or 3 where the RF input was going to the S-video input.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Especially when you spend all that money!!!!



That money I spent was wll spent. I thought I saw a difference between the 8000 and 8300. With the S3 it is very clear that there is a major difference in pq, now I wouldn't say that HD pq appears too much different but analog is so much better it's incredible.


Having said that how the S3 handles HD is far superior. Very few sound drop offs. Picture is consistantly great, and that's the THX technology. It was worth every penny I spent on it.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slightly off-topic, but a peeve/observation.
> 
> 
> I am amazed at HOW MANY people, even with a decent analog TV, have satellite or digital cable, plus a DVD, plus a VCR and have NO IDEA that they can connect ALL THREE of the components through something other than the RF input on their TV and get a better quality picture in the process. And not have such a complicated setup.
> 
> 
> I was at a friend's house the other night, and he had his DISH box running into the VCR, and the VCR into the TV through the RF input, with his DVD on an RF modulator AND A SWITCHER for the RF input.
> 
> 
> The guy had two s-video outputs w/ audio inputs on his damn TV!!! And another set of A/V inputs w/composite video. With a few cables he still had in the closet that came with all the components, I showed him how to hook them in and use the three "auxillary" channels to run everything and get a noticeably clearer picture. Esp. since it appears his TV's internal tuner isn't that great anyway. He actually exclaimed "holy ****" when I had his DISH box turned on and first hooked up the S-video, switching the TV from Channel 2 or 3 where the RF input was going to the S-video input.



To add to my comment, I wonder how many people complaining about either digital cable or satellite picture quality would see it improved if they went with the S-video instead of RF.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That money I spent was wll spent. I thought I saw a difference between the 8000 and 8300. With the S3 it is very clear that there is a major difference in pq, now I wouldn't say that HD pq appears too much different but analog is so much better it's incredible.
> 
> 
> Having said that how the S3 handles HD is far superior. Very few sound drop offs. Picture is consistantly great, and that's the THX technology. It was worth every penny I spent on it.



I was just jerking your chain!


Analog and/or SD digital rendering is definately the achilles heel of most sets/systems. Like I mentioned above, I saw a vast improvement when I froze the output of the 8300 at 720p.


As far as sound goes, I can't remember the last time I experienced an audio drop-out (that wasn't accompanied by a picture drop-out or pixelation). I use the optical output of the 8300 to my receiver which powers my Bose system. I wonder how many of your 8300 problems were really related to using the external hard drive? I know you had loads of problems with it and its possible a buggy driver was causing other systems problems as well...


But I'm glad the S3 is working better for you (and the wife acceptance factor has gone up since she got her contacts!) ... Sounds like a good system!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just jerking your chain!
> 
> 
> Analog and/or SD digital rendering is definately the achilles heel of most sets/systems. Like I mentioned above, I saw a vast improvement when I froze the output of the 8300 at 720p.
> 
> 
> As far as sound goes, I can't remember the last time I experienced an audio drop-out (that wasn't accompanied by a picture drop-out or pixelation). I use the optical output of the 8300 to my receiver which powers my Bose system. I wonder how many of your 8300 problems were really related to using the external hard drive? I know you had loads of problems with it and its possible a buggy driver was causing other systems problems as well...
> 
> 
> But I'm glad the S3 is working better for you (and the wife acceptance factor has gone up since she got her contacts!) ... Sounds like a good system!



Hey, no problem here. My experience with the 8300 was not the same as most people. Which is why I like the S3 so much now.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To add to my comment, I wonder how many people complaining about either digital cable or satellite picture quality would see it improved if they went with the S-video instead of RF.



Depends on the quality of the TV. For most high-end TV's, I've found the picture quality of digital cable and satellite to be _worse_ with higher-quality connections. The quality of the set actually amplifies the imperfections of the compressed signal.


It's kind of like being able to see the wrinkles around the eys of your favorite actress when watching her in HD. She's almost prettier when there are things left to the imagination.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Depends on the quality of the TV. For most high-end TV's, I've found the picture quality of digital cable and satellite to be _worse_ with higher-quality connections. The quality of the set actually amplifies the imperfections of the compressed signal.
> 
> 
> It's kind of like being able to see the wrinkles around the eys of your favorite actress when watching her in HD. She's almost prettier when there are things left to the imagination.



All true. Said example is a 32" JVC SDTV.


----------



## akron05

OK another techie question:


We're splitting a RG6 cable carrying OTA HDTV signals from the antenna. It's split into three over a cable run of 65 feet prior to the split and 30 feet after.


How much amplifier do I need to bring the signal strength back to the "original" before the splits and long cable run?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK another techie question:
> 
> 
> We're splitting a RG6 cable carrying OTA HDTV signals from the antenna. It's split into three over a cable run of 65 feet prior to the split and 30 feet after.
> 
> 
> How much amplifier do I need to bring the signal strength back to the "original" before the splits and long cable run?



Don't even think about amplifiers until you try it without amps. You may need an amp, however see what you get without an amp. An overamplified HD signal may cause dropouts or no reception at all.


----------



## JJkizak

Mechanical splitters typically loose about 3 db of signal at UHF frequencies. They also tend to screw up the impeadence. What you should aim for is the biggest, baddest attenna (rotatable 30 ft parabolic) with 5/8"Styroflex" lead-in and connectors and electronic splitters and a 20 db pad to knock down the VSWR. But what I just described will cost more than your house. If you throw in a parametric front end it will cost two houses. Oh well,

such is life in the high tech world.


JJK


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry guys, I'm sure it's WNEO. That's what is listed in Zap2it.com and also you can look here at the Time Warner lineup for our area. Also handsworth, who is always right told us that it would be WNEO and also Universal Channel but he did not say when.
> 
> 
> 
> When PBS 45 & 49 begin HD again, TWC will be using WEAO...believe me. (Despite what their marketing folks think)



Right this minute, I can recieve the digital signals of:


WKYC

WEWS

WJW

WOIO

WDLI

WEAO

WUAB

WOAC

WQHS


CANNOT get WVIZ no matter what I do. Also can't get a lock on any of the Youngstown DT stations, probably because a large stand of pine trees is right in the path of the antenna.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK another techie question:
> 
> 
> We're splitting a RG6 cable carrying OTA HDTV signals from the antenna. It's split into three over a cable run of 65 feet prior to the split and 30 feet after.
> 
> 
> How much amplifier do I need to bring the signal strength back to the "original" before the splits and long cable run?



Assuming you are not real close to any FM or land-mobile towers, the amplifier at the antenna should have about 10 dB more gain than the losses in the cables/splitters. A 3-way split will be about 5 dB and I'd say about 8-10 dB for the RG-6 to be on the conservative side, so you'd want an amp having about 20-25 dB gain.


----------



## Rbuchina

Will FOX show the Browns vs Steelers game Thursday night in HD or will it just be a down converted SD version of the game? I'm deciding if I want to go to a friends house with DISH network or stay home and watch TWC in my PJs on HDFOX.


Ray


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will FOX show the Browns vs Steelers game Thursday night in HD or will it just be a down converted SD version of the game? I'm deciding if I want to go to a friends house with DISH network or stay home and watch TWC in my PJs on HDFOX.
> 
> 
> Ray



Guide on my HDTivo doesn't reflect HD; however, I can't imagine why local Fox wouldn't show it in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guide on my HDTivo doesn't reflect HD; however, I can't imagine why local Fox wouldn't show it in HD.



Same thing here. And I'll tell you why they won't show it in HD. It's not presented by FOX Sports it's presented by NFL Network, which will probably not release HD rights out to local broadcasters.


----------



## terryfoster

We had the Bengals/Ravens game in HD last Thursday broadcasted by our local NBC affiliate. It's more likely due to the Fox splicer system they may not have the equipment necessary to process the HD signal from NFL Network and transmit it out to you.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Assuming you are not real close to any FM or land-mobile towers, the amplifier at the antenna should have about 10 dB more gain than the losses in the cables/splitters. A 3-way split will be about 5 dB and I'd say about 8-10 dB for the RG-6 to be on the conservative side, so you'd want an amp having about 20-25 dB gain.



Should the amp go up at the antenna, or right before the splitter? Or does it not matter much?


BTW I did try to split w/o an amp and lost WOIO and WOAC (not that I care about that one, I don't watch shopping channels) in the process on both the existing TV and the new one. Can't lock now. When I remove the amp it comes back. All the other stations still seemed OK.


----------



## Rbuchina

I am not expecting it to be HD either. I just could not find anything on it so I thought I would ask the question. I know in the past when ESPN has carried Sunday night football games with the Browns the local Cleveland channel covering the game did not carry the HD.


Ray


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right this minute, I can recieve the digital signals of:
> 
> 
> WKYC
> 
> WEWS
> 
> WJW
> 
> WOIO
> 
> WDLI
> 
> WEAO
> 
> WUAB
> 
> WOAC
> 
> WQHS
> 
> 
> CANNOT get WVIZ no matter what I do. Also can't get a lock on any of the Youngstown DT stations, probably because a large stand of pine trees is right in the path of the antenna.



You'll never get WVIZ unless you live more or less across the street from their Brookpark facility. They're using a wimpy temporary 100 watt transmitter until they get the issues worked out with their main tower.


----------



## akron05

I have a Norwood HDTV PC tuner card. Dunno if anyone knows about this, but I don't care much for the software that came with it. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good, cheap or free software that will work with my card?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Should the amp go up at the antenna, or right before the splitter? Or does it not matter much?
> 
> 
> BTW I did try to split w/o an amp and lost WOIO and WOAC (not that I care about that one, I don't watch shopping channels) in the process on both the existing TV and the new one. Can't lock now. When I remove the amp it comes back. All the other stations still seemed OK.



The amp should normally be put as close to the antenna as possible, but it is an inexact science. Amps can sometimes amplify noise on an otherwise decent channel.


I use two antennas (one VHF, one UHF) pointed in different directions, then summed together using a splitter backwards, then boosted 25dB (with FM trap - Radio Shack model) for 100 ft of RG6 cable. Other configurations (like moving the booster later in the chain) didn't work well for me.


With this configuration I get all of Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown very well...however, no WVIZ.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I guess we won't know until gametime. When WEWS carried ESPN's Sunday Night Football's coverage of the Browns last season it was SD (with interference in the video







).


WJW may only have the rights to the SD feed like WEWS did, otoh we all may get lucky and get the HD feed.


BTW: the game is *not on "FOX"*, rather WJW is preempting FOX programming to show the NFL Network's coverage of the game. I wonder which affilliate got the game in Pittsburgh?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You'll never get WVIZ unless you live more or less across the street from their Brookpark facility. They're using a wimpy temporary 100 watt transmitter until they get the issues worked out with their main tower.



Boy I can testify to that! I live 3 miles from that Brookpark Rd. tower and have to move my Silver Sensor to a north-facing window in order to get a lock on WVIZ. All the other stations blast through the walls but not VIZ.


BTW: in addition to 1 kw, the tower is only 99' tall.


BTW BTW: They don't even put the regular programming (i.e. what's shown on the analog station) on a subchannel the way WEAO does. Inorder to watch the main feed of WVIZ you need to watch in analog


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess we won't know until gametime. When WEWS carried ESPN's Sunday Night Football's coverage of the Browns last season it was SD (with interference in the video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> 
> WJW may only have the rights to the SD feed like WEWS did, otoh we all may get lucky and get the HD feed.
> 
> 
> BTW: the game is *not on "FOX"*, rather WJW is preempting FOX programming to show the NFL Network's coverage of the game. I wonder which affilliate got the game in Pittsburgh?



Does anyone know if NFL Network uses 720p, or is it 1080i? Our Fox local probably couldn't handle 1080i. In fact, given the strict architecture of the Fox network, they might even have problems handling 720p if it came from a source other than the Fox network.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if NFL Network uses 720p, or is it 1080i? Our Fox local probably couldn't handle 1080i. In fact, given the strict architecture of the Fox network, they might even have problems handling 720p if it came from a source other than the Fox network.



Yeah, that's what I was alluding to earlier. NFL Network broadcasts in 1080i and the Fox Splicer equipment probably cannot process a HD feed from a source other than Fox's head end. So you should expect to see a SD broadcast tonight, unless your O&O Fox affiliate bought equipment to handle HD sources from outside of Fox.


----------



## lefkas

I emailed Fox 8 programming this afternoon and asked if they planned to carry the Browns-Steelers game in hi def. They said "yes."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I emailed Fox 8 programming this afternoon and asked if they planned to carry the Browns-Steelers game in hi def. They said "yes."



I believe you of course but it really doesn't make sense. With TW holding most of the broadcasting and not delivering the NFL Network it would, IMHO be smart of the NFL Network to refuse the HD broadcast. Otherwise, what is really the point of the NFL Network in HD? Not showing it my cause TW's phones to go ring ring ring tomorrow with complaints demanding NFL Network.


But then again I'm am just an average person trying to look at this thing, not a television executive. I'm sure for FOX it's a plus.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe you of course but it really doesn't make sense. With TW holding most of the broadcasting and not delivering the NFL Network it would, IMHO be smart of the NFL Network to refuse the HD broadcast. Otherwise, what is really the point of the NFL Network in HD? Not showing it my cause TW's phones to go ring ring ring tomorrow with complaints demanding NFL Network.
> 
> 
> But then again I'm am just an average person trying to look at this thing, not a television executive. I'm sure for FOX it's a plus.



I don't think so. What percentage of TW subscribers have HDTV's? Sure a few of *us* would call, but we are not the majority (yet).


Someday this will change, just not today.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe you of course but it really doesn't make sense. With TW holding most of the broadcasting and not delivering the NFL Network it would, IMHO be smart of the NFL Network to refuse the HD broadcast. Otherwise, what is really the point of the NFL Network in HD? Not showing it my cause TW's phones to go ring ring ring tomorrow with complaints demanding NFL Network.



The full "ring ring" would be if the game wasn't available at all. We're still in the minority.










This seems to be the first year that HD local broadcasts of cable NFL games, in the home markets, is the norm. There must be something to that.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder which affilliate got the game in Pittsburgh?



KDKA - channel 2; KDKA-DT - channel 2.1 (RF channel 25)


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The amp should normally be put as close to the antenna as possible, but it is an inexact science. Amps can sometimes amplify noise on an otherwise decent channel.
> 
> 
> I use two antennas (one VHF, one UHF) pointed in different directions, then summed together using a splitter backwards, then boosted 25dB (with FM trap - Radio Shack model) for 100 ft of RG6 cable. Other configurations (like moving the booster later in the chain) didn't work well for me.
> 
> 
> With this configuration I get all of Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown very well...however, no WVIZ.



Does anyone have a link to the list of final digital channel allocations? Somebody found a list of what channel the major US stations will go to permanently after the 2009 analog shutoff.


----------



## PTXer

Good day all. Just found this forum and trying to get the most out of my new HDTV. I am going for the OTA approach and live in Kent. According to antennaweb I am 22 to 23 miles from the antenna farm for most of the Cleveland stations. Right now I can only get a digital signal from WNEO with my rabbit ears so I am going to the roof. I have been considering a Winegard CS2200 (amplified) just because its small and unobtrusive. My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees. This antenna is good for the distance range I am in, but I know the trees will hinder that. Will a bigger antenna help me or will the trees block out the signal to whatever antenna I put up there? Thanks for any advice


Tom


----------



## hookbill

TW sent a tech out because they detected a problem with my return signal when I had an internet outage last week. I pumped his brain for some answers.


I appears that no changes will be made until June of 2007. But when they change, it's going to be a big time change.


As Inundated suspected they are going to switch all channels to their current system. Everything will be standardized.


Road Runner will be started then.


Customer support techs may come from different areas and the will probably be soon. He told me I will be supported out of the Chardon office as opposed to the Macedonia office. Time Warner likes to do it by County.


I asked what type of software they will be using and he said Scientific Atlanta, so I pressed him if it would be Passport or SARA. He said it will be passport.


That ought to make things interesting.


What happens with everyone's DVR? Will they have to be switched out or can they make a transition from Passport to SARA?


Head end for my area is coming out of Cleveland.


What about my cable cards? Does it matter that they are changing Passport to SARA on the SA 8300 to me?


All starts in June!


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good day all. Just found this forum and trying to get the most out of my new HDTV. I am going for the OTA approach and live in Kent. According to antennaweb I am 22 to 23 miles from the antenna farm for most of the Cleveland stations. Right now I can only get a digital signal from WNEO with my rabbit ears so I am going to the roof. I have been considering a Winegard CS2200 (amplified) just because its small and unobtrusive. My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees. This antenna is good for the distance range I am in, but I know the trees will hinder that. Will a bigger antenna help me or will the trees block out the signal to whatever antenna I put up there? Thanks for any advice
> 
> 
> Tom



Get a tower.


Or a chainsaw.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Should the amp go up at the antenna, or right before the splitter? Or does it not matter much?
> 
> 
> BTW I did try to split w/o an amp and lost WOIO and WOAC (not that I care about that one, I don't watch shopping channels) in the process on both the existing TV and the new one. Can't lock now. When I remove the amp it comes back. All the other stations still seemed OK.



The amp should be as close to the antenna as possible. You want to minimize any loss before the amp.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The amp should be as close to the antenna as possible. You want to minimize any loss before the amp.



Try it without the amplifier first. You may not need it.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try it without the amplifier first. You may not need it.



Already did - I lost WOIO and WOAC. With the splitter those two stations don't lock - WOIO because it's weak and WOAC probably because my antenna is pointed about 100 degrees away from it and before it was strong enough to blow through anyway since it's only 9 miles away at most.


Don't care about WOAC but I need my NFL and David Letterman so I hooked the single TV back up w/o the splitter.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a link to the list of final digital channel allocations? Somebody found a list of what channel the major US stations will go to permanently after the 2009 analog shutoff.



Google "FCC-06-150A1.PDF"...


----------



## JJkizak

Akron05:

I have a DC9000 antenna and found that after trying three different amplifiers, Samsung T165 tuners (2), LG 3510A tuner, Sony KV-34HS510 tuner, MY-HD 120 HDTV tuner card, Sony 25" Trinitron standard tv, 13" Sony standard tv, JVC D-VHS VCR, Sony KLV S23A10, Panasonic VCR, JVC VCR, and Sony KDL-46XBR2 the XBR2 had the best tuner operation and the most sensitivity and best signal to noise of any of the above. The second best sensitivity is the MY-HD 120 tuner card. There are two cheapo splitters in the RG-6 lead-in. The amplifiers when inserted actually were much worse than any of the TV's, however, did not insert them at the antenna. The length of the lead-in is about 40 ft. I can receive 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5, 19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 47.1, 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, 61.1. Also 3, 5, 8, 11 (sometimes), 13 (sometimes), 19, 23, 25, 29 (weak), 32 (weak), 35, 43, 49 (good), 53 (fair), 55, 61, 65 (good), 67 (good). The antenna is fixed aimed toward Cleveland.

JJK


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am going for the OTA approach and live in Kent. According to antennaweb I am 22 to 23 miles from the antenna farm for most of the Cleveland stations. Right now I can only get a digital signal from WNEO with my rabbit ears so I am going to the roof. I have been considering a Winegard CS2200 (amplified) just because its small and unobtrusive. My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees.



My setup is mildly similar - I've got taller trees near my antenna which made me wonder if I could get things to work. I'm only 18 miles from the antennas though and other than the trees have a good location as far as no taller hills intervening.


A Winegard Square Shooter w/pre-amp has worked for me and been relatively reliable (occasional drop-outs in extreme weather). Unfortunately you won't know for sure in your location until you set it up & see if it works. Couple nice things about the Square Shooter - it's easy to set up given it's size etc. plus it does do a good job w/multi-path problems which you may get due to the proximity of the trees.


If you do go with a Square Shooter, do experiment with the tilt etc. - I used to have occasional signal oscillations on 5.1 in certain weather, but after tilting it back further it cleared up nicely.


A bigger antenna may give you a stronger signal, but may have more multi-path issues as well. Hard to tell w/o setting 'em both up unfortunately.


Good luck - hopefully it works for you...Free HD is well worth the trouble.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Google "FCC-06-150A1.PDF"...



Thanks for the information!! This is the first I've seen of this. It gives the tentative HAAT and Power for all DTV stations in the USA after the transition. What I found interesting is that WJW plans to broadcast digitally on channel 8 at a decent 15.7 kW compared to WOIO's anticipated measely 3.5 kW on channel 10. WKYC's plans are to go digitally on channel 17 at a whopping 1000 kW, and WEWS will boost their power up to 1000 kW. There are some improvements to look forward to if you use OTA. I'm wondering what some of the channels will call themselves after their channel number is changed. It would be stupid to say NewsChannel 5 or Channel 3 News if their channels are 15 and 17. The Canadians usually just use their call letters to identify their station. The new channel lineup for Akron/Canton/Cleveland/Youngstown will be...


8 WJW (15.7kW 305m - Parma)

10 WOIO (3.5kW 304m - Parma)

15 WEWS (1000kW 311m - Parma)

17 WKYC (1000kW 296m - Parma)

20 WFMJ (460kW 295m - Youngstown)

23 WVPX (317kW 296m - Akron)

26 WVIZ (100kW 313m - North Royalton)

28 WUAB (200kW 337m - Parma)

30 WBNX (1000kW 334m - Parma)

34 WQHS (525kW 334m - Parma)

36 WYTV (50kW 149m - Youngstown)

39 WDLI (200kW 292m - Akron)

41 WKBN (700kW 418m - Youngstown)

45 WNEO (388kW 223m - Salem)

47 WOAC (1000kW 134m - Brimfield)

50 WEAO (180kW 305m - Copley)


LP and CA applications include WRAP at 40 with 10kW, WCDN & WXOX both applied for 7 with 0.3kW and 0.5 kW respectively (WXOX will most likely not be granted that), W51BI at 51 with 8kW, W52DS applied for 32 and 38, W58AM at 44 with 1.5kW, and still no word on what The Cat 35/29 or WIVM 52 plan on doing.


----------



## PTXer

DaMavs,

Thanks for the comments. I am a little encouraged by the results you are getting. I have looked at the Square Shooter but have seen many comments that it is lousy in the VHF range. The Sensar III (GS2200) I have been looking at also has a preamp and is a little more omni directional so I was hoping I would be able to get both the Cleveland stations and the Akron stations without a rotor since they are 70deg apart for me. Plus the SS is double the cost of the Sensar. How high is your SS mounted and how high are the trees?


Thanks


----------



## akron05

I saw on another forum someone who has a large 8-bay UHF antenna (all the stations but one are UHF and the one VHF is a high-VHF), forget what area they are in, but they said:


6 stations at 330 degrees, 19 mi away, three stations at 45 degrees, 8 mi away, four stations around 175 degrees, 45 mi away


Two antennas in different directions - only two DT's come in, too much multipath

One antenna, no preamp, aimed at cluster of closer stations - get the 330 degree and 45 degree stations, can't even detect signal on others. Add preamp, detect but can't lock two of the four at 175 degrees, and others are blown out and "too strong" to pick up


the solution he had was to aim the antenna, WITH a preamp, at the 45 mile distant stations. The antenna picks up a small amount elsewhere, and being that they are close but off-center, the preamp amplifies it just enough to lock. Signal meters for the closer stations are similar to where the distant ones are and it works.


So, I'm thinking...if I aim a bit 8-bay UHF at youngstown with a preamp would there be enough residual reception off the sides and back that with the amplification I can still get Cleveland/Akron? Then I can still aim a VHF-only at Parma for WOIO and WKYC.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> compared to WOIO's anticipated measely 3.5 kW on channel 10.



I believe that's because they have to protect channel 10 in London, Ontario.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that's because they have to protect channel 10 in London, Ontario.



I still don't know why they couldn't go back to 19 then.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe that's because they have to protect channel 10 in London, Ontario.


*BINGO!* Staying on channel 10 is one dumb move among many dumb moves WOIO has made.


Fortunately for some of us we can get our CBS from WKBN-DT, CBS-HD and dd5.1 on the air today! 700kw, 418m high tower and coverage from Cleveland to Pitsburgh!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still don't know why they couldn't go back to 19 then.



Why? because they are owned by Raycom. They could go back to 19, they should go back to 19. Being on 19 would make OTA reception to all of the Cleveland stations a snap, as that way all the original major network stations would have been grouped together on the same part of the rf spectrum (read: optimized UHF antennas for the 14-21 range aimed squarley at Parma = perfect recption of ABC, NBC and CBS throughout the viewing area). The majority of viewers have not been watching TV OTA for so long that the stations count on cable to make up for their inefficiencies. the problem that is when the contracts come up for renewal sometimes cable looses the rights to a statioon for a while (rember the "FOX on COX" debacle several years ago?).


----------



## akron05

Michael, since you are so close to the Parma towers, does your Youngstown antenna still manage to pick up the Cleveland stations off the sides/back of the antenna?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> *BINGO!* Staying on channel 10 is one dumb move among many dumb moves WOIO has made.
> 
> 
> Fortunately for some of us we can get our CBS from WKBN-DT, CBS-HD and dd5.1 on the air today! 700kw, 418m high tower and coverage from Cleveland to Pitsburgh!
> 
> 
> 
> Why? because they are owned by Raycom. They could go back to 19, they should go back to 19. Being on 19 would make OTA reception to all of the Cleveland stations a snap, as that way all the original major network stations would have been grouped together on the same part of the rf spectrum (read: optimized UHF antennas for the 14-21 range aimed squarley at Parma = perfect recption of ABC, NBC and CBS throughout the viewing area). The majority of viewers have not been watching TV OTA for so long that the stations count on cable to make up for their inefficiencies. the problem that is when the contracts come up for renewal sometimes cable looses the rights to a statioon for a while (rember the "FOX on COX" debacle several years ago?).



I know that WOIO-DT 10 cannot increase power due to CFPL 10 in London Ontario. I've been around the lakeshore where I've found it a cinch to get that channel during almost normal atmospheric conditions. If WOIO can broadcast their analog at 3700kW now, then they should be able to afford a higher power bill of only an extra 10kW that would greatly improve their digital signal. So it's mainly an FCC issue, although WOIO should change their final channel position to 19. It looks like after the transition, the all Cleveland stations will be easy to get except for WOIO.


----------



## DBarros




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am not expecting it to be HD either. I just could not find anything on it so I thought I would ask the question. I know in the past when ESPN has carried Sunday night football games with the Browns the local Cleveland channel covering the game did not carry the HD.
> 
> 
> Ray



it is in HD for me....wow, 2 Browns games in HDTV in 5 days. That is a first.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Michael, since you are so close to the Parma towers, does your Youngstown antenna still manage to pick up the Cleveland stations off the sides/back of the antenna?



You would think so, but no. I use an A/B switch with a conglomeration of indoor antennas to get all my stations. What I really need is an A/B/C switch, the 3rd postion would be for the Akron stations.


The ironic thing is WJW-DT is only .8 of a mile and nearly a perfect 180 degrees from Youngstown. But I never could get a reliable lock on WJW when my outdoor "Youngstown" antenna is selected. What I do get on the Youngstwon antenna is WOIO and WKYC the 2 VHF signals, at nearly 90 degrees! The only other thing I get on the Youngstown antenna is WOAC from Canton (the transmitter for that station is actually in western Portage County).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know that WOIO-DT 10 cannot increase power due to CFPL 10 in London Ontario. I've been around the lakeshore where I've found it a cinch to get that channel during almost normal atmospheric conditions. If WOIO can broadcast their analog at 3700kW now, then they should be able to afford a higher power bill of only an extra 10kW that would greatly improve their digital signal. So it's mainly an FCC issue, although WOIO should change their final channel position to 19. It looks like after the transition, the all Cleveland stations will be easy to get except for WOIO.



Don't blame the FCC for this issue! Raycom requested ch 10 as the final resting place of WOIO, knocking WBNS in Columbus off ch 10 even though WBNS was on that channel decades before WOIO even existed. So you see it's not only CFPL that WOIO has to protect with it's wimpy signal, but Columbus too (for now).


BTW: If WOIO were to put it's digital signal on ch 19 they would not need to use nearly the same amount of power their analog signal uses today. Digital signals are far more efficient. Look at WKBN-DT at a little over 700 kw their signal goes clear from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! (and they are transmitting out of a valley not off a high point).


----------



## RussTC3

What a pleasant and great surprise! Fox 8 is broadcasting the Cleveland/Pittsburgh game in HD!


Looks excellent too!


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DBarros* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> it is in HD for me....wow, 2 Browns games in HDTV in 5 days. That is a first.



IT looks great. Now if only the Browns could PLAY great...


----------



## Bismarck440

Hi all, refreshing to see I'm not the only one in Northeast Ohio without Cable, & finds TV Dx'ing a challege.







I'm setting someone up for DTV so I finally had a chance to see one of these in operation OTA, great picture though some disappointments with blocking & freezing. I'm up in northern Lake county so, I don't have the luxury of the Akron PBS'es, & Erie iseems to beam to the East & south.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees. This antenna is good for the distance range I am in, but I know the trees will hinder that. Will a bigger antenna help me or will the trees block out the signal to whatever antenna I put up there? Thanks for any advice



I am wondering on especially windy nights why would a signal be blowing around? I am helping someone get set up here, however this house is in a semi wooded area, the attic antenna provides the same signal drift on windy nights, however is not exposed to the wind.. perhaps the trees causing this?


15 to 20 years back at this same location the reception was perfect with pretty much the same amount of trees on both the attic & roof antenna, The other antenna is a 100 mile (aprox) vhf/uhf outdoor Terk rooftop mounted a story & a half up. I'm a few miles away with a rooftop antenna 2 stories up, a few less trees though still somewhat wooded & have excellent reception in analog, have yet to get a DTV but am considering it after the next price drop.


Are the trees causing this? or should I put a bit more height on the antenna? I'm still down below the ridge, so doubtful a few feet would make a difference.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know that WOIO-DT 10 cannot increase power due to CFPL 10 in London Ontario. I've been around the lakeshore where I've found it a cinch to get that channel during almost normal atmospheric conditions. If WOIO can broadcast their analog at 3700kW now, then they should be able to afford a higher power bill of only an extra 10kW that would greatly improve their digital signal. So it's mainly an FCC issue, although WOIO should change their final channel position to 19. It looks like after the transition, the all Cleveland stations will be easy to get except for WOIO.



I don't believe CFPL is using omnidirectional pattern, true I pick this one up on a good night, but even with a 90 mile VHF antenna, rotor & amp, I find this one very difficult even being 3 miles from the lake, with a straight north shot with no trees in that direction!


I used to find I had an equal chance of picking up a watchable WBNS with the Antenna SW towards Cleveland.



> Quote:
> Don't blame the FCC for this issue! Raycom requested ch 10 as the final resting place of WOIO, knocking WBNS in Columbus off ch 10 even though WBNS was on that channel decades before WOIO even existed. So you see it's not only CFPL that WOIO has to protect with it's wimpy signal, but Columbus too (for now).
> 
> 
> BTW: If WOIO were to put it's digital signal on ch 19 they would not need to use nearly the same amount of power their analog signal uses today. Digital signals are far more efficient. Look at WKBN-DT at a little over 700 kw their signal goes clear from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! (and they are transmitting out of a valley not off a high point).



So what power is WOIO 10 DT using now? & is CFPL remaining on 10 after the transition?


Shall I be looking towards Erie D16 (another tough nut to crack) for my CBS affiliate?


----------



## Inundated

Two quick points:


There is no "transition" right now in Canada. The Canadian DTV situation is somewhat different than the situation here...right now, only the country's very largest markets even HAVE DTV outlets (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver). Think "U.S. three or four years ago".


So, CFPL isn't going away from 10 at any time in the near future.


Erie's another problem. It really is. None of the four network affiliates there is running anything more than lightbulb power. I have no idea how they've been able to do it (waivers?). The stations are all owned by either incredibly cheap companies or companies that have actively pleaded that they can't afford to do the upgrades until much later.


So, as a result, their DTV signals are hard to pick up even...well, in Erie! Hit the Erie local reception thread here for much, much more...or eriemedia.blogspot.com for a blog by one of the regulars there which has much more detail...


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I saw on another forum someone who has a large 8-bay UHF antenna (all the stations but one are UHF and the one VHF is a high-VHF), forget what area they are in, but they said:
> 
> 
> 6 stations at 330 degrees, 19 mi away, three stations at 45 degrees, 8 mi away, four stations around 175 degrees, 45 mi away
> 
> 
> Two antennas in different directions - only two DT's come in, too much multipath
> 
> One antenna, no preamp, aimed at cluster of closer stations - get the 330 degree and 45 degree stations, can't even detect signal on others. Add preamp, detect but can't lock two of the four at 175 degrees, and others are blown out and "too strong" to pick up
> 
> 
> the solution he had was to aim the antenna, WITH a preamp, at the 45 mile distant stations. The antenna picks up a small amount elsewhere, and being that they are close but off-center, the preamp amplifies it just enough to lock. Signal meters for the closer stations are similar to where the distant ones are and it works.
> 
> 
> So, I'm thinking...if I aim a bit 8-bay UHF at youngstown with a preamp would there be enough residual reception off the sides and back that with the amplification I can still get Cleveland/Akron? Then I can still aim a VHF-only at Parma for WOIO and WKYC.



I think it will depend on the antenna and its sensitivity pattern. If you've ever seen some of the diagrams for the various antennae on the Winegard site, you'll see some have some lobes off to the sides or off the back. Others do not. I don't know how these patterns translate to the real world, but I imagine this why most of these antennae are designed the way they are. With the right one, sounds like it would work to me.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DaMavs,
> 
> Thanks for the comments. I am a little encouraged by the results you are getting. I have looked at the Square Shooter but have seen many comments that it is lousy in the VHF range.



Definitely not its strength - I only get NBC & CBS due to the pre-amp & have a friend in Willoughby who couldn't pull Ch. 3 with one and had to switch to a bigger antenna. Basically I decided to try the Square Shooter first as it was simple to mount plus I thought it being good for multipath was a plus in my location, but basically I was confident I could easily mount it and lo & behold it worked so I was done. When I do have "heavy weather" issues sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off with a bigger, more conventional antenna though, but I've never been inspired to experiment as what I have works well enough.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Sensar III (GS2200) I have been looking at also has a preamp and is a little more omni directional so I was hoping I would be able to get both the Cleveland stations and the Akron stations without a rotor since they are 70deg apart for me. Plus the SS is double the cost of the Sensar. How high is your SS mounted and how high are the trees?



I have my Square Shooter pointed right at the Parma towers and I still get the Akron PBS station fairly well ~60 degrees off (~25 miles). If the Sensar III is more omnidirectional, you should be OK with a 70 degree spread I'd guess.


My Square Shooter is mounted on a 2nd story deck and the house sits on a fairly steep hill to that side so I'm likely ~25' off the foundation & closer to 40' off the base of the nearest trees. There are lots of trees around at least 10 to 20' higher than the antenna position (and some higher, but I miss the biggest). I did position it so it's shooting through as much of a gap as possible & missing the nearest trees which I'm guessing helped.


Unfortunately there are tons of variables with ATSC OTA, but I will say my reception has been better of late if anything - in part I'm presuming that's because the stations are far more reliable now than a year or two ago more than my setup aging well. But the sensitivity of your ATSC tuner will be another big variable in your setup - we have 3 different tuners hooked up to the antenna & one (the oldest TV) tuner is far worse than the others.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IT looks great. Now if only the Browns could PLAY great...



I watched the game via OTA signal on Fox 8. Picture didn't look quite as good as normal weekend Fox or CBS NFL HD broadcasts. Not sure why. Only thing worse than Browns performance was having to listen to Byant Gumbel and Chris Collingsworth. They may be the worst broadcasting combo since Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant. Gumbel should stick to news. He was simply dreadful.


----------



## snagy

on my OTA, it was not in HD. Signal was only decoded in 720 resolution.


When the Browns get good, maybe more might be in HD


Wait till next year!


----------



## akron05

Looked HD to me.


----------



## akron05

Ah, yes...I've been saying "wait till next year" since about 1992...


----------



## snagy

i feed my OTA thru my Directv H20, both the guide and my TV did not decode it as 1080i for me at least.


My loss.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Two quick points:
> 
> 
> There is no "transition" right now in Canada. The Canadian DTV situation is somewhat different than the situation here...right now, only the country's very largest markets even HAVE DTV outlets (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver). Think "U.S. three or four years ago".
> 
> 
> So, CFPL isn't going away from 10 at any time in the near future.



So I take it no Feb 17, 2009 deadline in Canada? My bad I thought it was all of north ameica, forgot Canada plays by different rules, just check out some of their late night programming







May not have to toss out the Analog set's just yet.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Erie's another problem. It really is. None of the four network affiliates there is running anything more than lightbulb power. I have no idea how they've been able to do it (waivers?). The stations are all owned by either incredibly cheap companies or companies that have actively pleaded that they can't afford to do the upgrades until much later.
> 
> 
> So, as a result, their DTV signals are hard to pick up even...well, in Erie! Hit the Erie local reception thread here for much, much more...for a blog by one of the regulars there which has much more detail...



TY I wll, As I said Erie's another tough nut for as close as I am to their farm that I'

m assuming is just east of the US19/I-90 interchange, I'm about 60-65 miles with a rotor, 100 mile antenna & amp, no problem, right??? wrong! Strangely once upon a time was able to pull the PBS Affiliate out of Jamestown NY in with the smaller attic antenna, on 17, rare for UHF.


Notice many of you are pulling in Y-Town, another I cannot get, I have better luck From Detroit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched the game via OTA signal on Fox 8. Picture didn't look quite as good as normal weekend Fox or CBS NFL HD broadcasts. Not sure why. Only thing worse than Browns performance was having to listen to Byant Gumbel and Chris Collingsworth. They may be the worst broadcasting combo since Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant. Gumbel should stick to news. He was simply dreadful.




This is just hillarious! I don't know how old you are but I'll bet you don't know that Bryant Gumbel started out as a sports broadcaster, I don't remember which network. I was surprised when he went from sports to the news and the Today show.


I didn't watch last night but as I recall Bryant Gumbel was an excellent sports broadcaster.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> TV stations serving all markets in the United States are airing digital television programming today, although most will continue to provide analog programming through February 17, 2009. At that point, full-power TV stations will cease broadcasting on their current analog channels, and the spectrum they use for analog broadcasting will be reclaimed and put to other uses.



Current spectrum? I only heard of the UHF band losing channels 59-69, (obviously to cell phones) at a later date... we are talking about the same analog & DTV spectrum here?



> Quote:
> Converting to DTV also will free up parts of the scarce and valuable broadcast spectrum. Those portions of the spectrum can then be used for other important services, such as public and safety services (police and fire departments, emergency rescue), and advanced wireless services.



Seems that the lower portion of the VHF band will be sparcely used & ripe for the picking now.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> on my OTA, it was not in HD. Signal was only decoded in 720 resolution.



So you DID NOT see the little "HD" in the top left corner as a part of the score board? If you did see this, then it was _probably_ in HD. If you did not see this it was stretched SD. I'm asking because living in Cincinnati I didn't see the broadcast from your affiliate (actually I didn't see it at all).


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't blame the FCC for this issue! Raycom requested ch 10 as the final resting place of WOIO, knocking WBNS in Columbus off ch 10 even though WBNS was on that channel decades before WOIO even existed. So you see it's not only CFPL that WOIO has to protect with it's wimpy signal, but Columbus too (for now).
> 
> 
> BTW: If WOIO were to put it's digital signal on ch 19 they would not need to use nearly the same amount of power their analog signal uses today. Digital signals are far more efficient. Look at WKBN-DT at a little over 700 kw their signal goes clear from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! (and they are transmitting out of a valley not off a high point).



According to the FCC's website, WOIO's digital signal reaches as far as Alliance, Canton, Wooster, Warren, Massillon, Norwalk, and Mentor. I honestly believe that anyone living in these areas would have a difficult time receiving a reliable picture as we've all been complaining about reception in the Cleveland/Akron metro area. If WOIO was smart, they would've chosen 19 for their final resting place since their would be no other digitals broadcasting on 19 for hundreds of miles from Cleveland. I only wish I could receive WKBN-DT, but I've tried everything possible with no luck. I don't want to be pessimistic here, because we have a lot to look forward to compared to other DMAs. It looks like all other stations will have at least a decent power level and HAAT. I'm looking forward to the time when WBNX-DT signs on with their 1000kW of power that is aimed my way, and when WKYC-DT makes the switch to channel 17 at 1000kW.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is just hillarious! I don't know how old you are but I'll bet you don't know that Bryant Gumbel started out as a sports broadcaster, I don't remember which network. I was surprised when he went from sports to the news and the Today show.
> 
> 
> I didn't watch last night but as I recall Bryant Gumbel was an excellent sports broadcaster.




I actually am old enough to remember Bryant Gumbel pairing with Jack Buck as the hosts of the pre-game show for NBC's old Saturday afternoon baseball broadcasts with Curt Gowdy and Tony Kubek. He was a good interviewer. Don't know what happened, but he sucks as a football play-by-play guy. Probably needs to take a few lessons from his older brother, Greg.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I watched the game via OTA signal on Fox 8. Picture didn't look quite as good as normal weekend Fox or CBS NFL HD broadcasts. Not sure why. Only thing worse than Browns performance was having to listen to Byant Gumbel and Chris Collingsworth. They may be the worst broadcasting combo since Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant. Gumbel should stick to news. He was simply dreadful.



I agree with you 110% That duo was pathetic last night! If only there wasn't a delay in broadcasts from the radio and the satellite feed I would've opted for the local radio play by play. The NFL Network settled on the wrong Gumbel and Collinsworth is a media whore. He's everywhere: HBO, NBC, FOX and now NFL Network!? Not to mention we had to put-up with Deion at halftime! Arrrgggg. Lousy coverage!


----------



## SKoprowski

That was the first time I saw a NFL Network broadcast- WOW was that pathetic!! I don't understand how the NFL could allow such amateurish production of the the whole broadcast. I've seen better production on MAC football games on ESPN during the week.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to the FCC's website, WOIO's digital signal reaches as far as Alliance, Canton, Wooster, Warren, Massillon, Norwalk, and Mentor. I honestly believe that anyone living in these areas would have a difficult time receiving a reliable picture as we've all been complaining about reception in the Cleveland/Akron metro area. If WOIO was smart, they would've chosen 19 for their final resting place since their would be no other digitals broadcasting on 19 for hundreds of miles from Cleveland. I only wish I could receive WKBN-DT, but I've tried everything possible with no luck. I don't want to be pessimistic here, because we have a lot to look forward to compared to other DMAs. It looks like all other stations will have at least a decent power level and HAAT. I'm looking forward to the time when WBNX-DT signs on with their 1000kW of power that is aimed my way, and when WKYC-DT makes the switch to channel 17 at 1000kW.



I wonder if Raycom just wanted WOIO on 10 to be cheap and save on their electric bill.


----------



## JJkizak

Gumbel was terrible. Collinsworth was OK. The only Cleveland Brown that impressed me was the quarterback. "Romeo, where art thow" and the receiver whose name starts with "N" for "Not For Long".


JJK


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if Raycom just wanted WOIO on 10 to be cheap and save on their electric bill.



I wonder how they expect to get their puny signal to all the cable headends in the outlying areas (or not-so-outlying areas like Lake County) after 2009? Don't most cable systems pick up the DT signal OTA?


Pretty dumb to lose so much coverage just to save a few bucks on the electric bill.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What about my cable cards? Does it matter that they are changing Passport to SARA on the SA 8300 to me?
> 
> 
> All starts in June!



Cablecards get their firmware pushed to them from the headend. If they switch, they can simply push the new firmware into the cards for an instant personality transplant.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if Raycom just wanted WOIO on 10 to be cheap and save on their electric bill.



BINGO!

This is Raycom afterall!







There is no way that their engineers would have agreed that this was the best way to serve their viewing area. The beancounters made this decision.


Everytime there is a tropo event from the north, I have trouble pulling in WOIO-DT because of CFPL in London, Ont. This was a real problem during Thanksgiving weekend.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I take it no Feb 17, 2009 deadline in Canada? My bad I thought it was all of north ameica, forgot Canada plays by different rules, just check out some of their late night programming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May not have to toss out the Analog set's just yet.


 Here's an excellent thread in the HDTV Programming area about the Canadian transition...which hasn't even been "sketched out" officially yet. It looks like they're talking about not even converting all the analog transmitters in far off areas... a problem they have even more than we do.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Notice many of you are pulling in Y-Town, another I cannot get, I have better luck From Detroit.



You're probably too far north to get WKBN-DT, even. Folks a little farther south than you should get it just fine with a decent antenna. I get it here in Akron (northwest side) with an amplified antenna pointed just the right direction out the back window towards the southeast...


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> in the HDTV Programming area about the Canadian transition...which hasn't even been "sketched out" officially yet. It looks like they're talking about not even converting all the analog transmitters in far off areas... a problem they have even more than we do..



Interesting that only 10% of Canada relies on OTA, I wonder what the numbers are in the US?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're probably too far north to get WKBN-DT, even. Folks a little farther south than you should get it just fine with a decent antenna. I get it here in Akron (northwest side) with an amplified antenna pointed just the right direction out the back window towards the southeast...



I'd never pull Y-Town Analog or DTV, I'm below the ridge in northern Lake County, I really can't pull in the Cleveland LP's either except for 32, & the Akron PBS'es are an impossibility too.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder how they expect to get their puny signal to all the cable headends in the outlying areas (or not-so-outlying areas like Lake County) after 2009? Don't most cable systems pick up the DT signal OTA?
> 
> 
> Pretty dumb to lose so much coverage just to save a few bucks on the electric bill.




I'm now wondering if the installation of the noise barrier on Route 2 wil somehow further limit my reception from Cleveland














I still refuse to get Cable.


----------



## cemkf3

I just saw some 4:3 programing on WKYC-DT that was not stretched for widescreen. It was Veggie Tales at 10:30 this morning. Has WKYC finally realized that 4:3 programing stretched to 16:9 doesn't look good or did they just forget to stretch it this morning? Let's hope it is the former and not the latter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cemkf3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just saw some 4:3 programing on WKYC-DT that was not stretched for widescreen. It was Veggie Tales at 10:30 this morning. Has WKYC finally realized that 4:3 programing stretched to 16:9 doesn't look good or did they just forget to stretch it this morning? Let's hope it is the former and not the latter.



Hey now that you mention it I saw that too. It was right after the news. It didn't dawn upon me until I read what you just wrote. Your right, it wasn't stretched.


----------



## Inundated

I've seen some non-stretched stuff on WKYC, too, in the past couple of days...


I hope it continues! If I ever feel the need to stretch, my cable box does it...


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tf4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi,
> 
> 
> I am new to this forum. I live in Solon and am trying to pick up WKYC in Hi-Def. I am using an indoor Radio Shack hi def antenna. Unfortunately all I can get is a fuzzy ghosted image on channel 3. Fox 8 comes in the best and the Pats game is absolutely amazing looking. I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time. If anyone has had success in Solon please let me know!
> 
> 
> I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.




I tried very hard getting WKYC DT many times in Solon, finally I had to give up and move. I was up near Harper Ridge too, tallest point in Cuyahoga County and I still had issue getting WKYC.


Of course now that we hear WKYC is weaning themselves off Stretch-O-Vision it's probably worthwhile to go through the hoops to get their over the air signal.


----------



## JJkizak

I have never had any problem getting WKYC from day one. The signal seems as steady as always and the HD is wonderfull. They were transmitting the correct SD for a couple days then yesterday switched back to stretched SD. They probably had another engineer who didn't know that people were supposed to look short and fat.

JJK


----------



## Inundated

I also noticed that Stretch-O-Vision was back on WKYC yesterday. And I had such high hopes!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also noticed that Stretch-O-Vision was back on WKYC yesterday. And I had such high hopes!



Well this morning "Meet The Press" which is in stretch o vision each week is not. So don't give up hope!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well this morning "Meet The Press" which is in stretch o vision each week is not. So don't give up hope!



I think WKYC is generally pretty hands off with network SD programming, at least from what I've seen. The syndicated stuff and local non-HD programming and commercials (even during network SD) they've always stretched.


I just got my hopes up when I saw some of that not stretched the other day.


Sigh.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think WKYC is generally pretty hands off with network SD programming, at least from what I've seen. The syndicated stuff and local non-HD programming and commercials (even during network SD) they've always stretched.
> 
> 
> I just got my hopes up when I saw some of that not stretched the other day.
> 
> 
> Sigh.



I know what your saying but I guarantee Meet The Press is stretched. It always follows their Sunday Morning news which is in HD and I notice it big time. It had borders today, looked good.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody else with Armstrong in Medina not get guide data for quite a few channels including NFL, PBS HD, WealthHD, STO, and others? Since the day it was installed it has always just shown "not available" or something similar for me.


----------



## Inundated

This may be a red letter day for Northeast Ohio sports fans with HD.


Every single NFL game available to this area this weekend is in HD.


Starting with Browns/Steelers on Thursday (with even WJW carrying the local feed in HD), all three games on CBS and FOX today, the NBC game tonight, and of course the ESPN game on Monday, are all in HD.


This would be accomplished, one presumes, because WOIO apparently swapped the plan to carry the SD game between the Bengals and Raiders in favor of carrying the Ravens and Chiefs (which is in HD, and on now).


I'm having a fun time flipping back and forth between WOIO and WJW and comparing HD PQ. From this end, even with my new 720p LCD set, the CBS game is the clear winner. It's not even close!


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cablecards get their firmware pushed to them from the headend. If they switch, they can simply push the new firmware into the cards for an instant personality transplant.



Just curious, is the new software what the SA8300HD has on Time Warner in Columbus? The interface, graphics, and some features were way nicer than the 1987 graphics on the 8300 in Cleveland. Looked real nice. They have a very nice on demand interface also, and channels like Universal HD and some others. But no ESPN2HD, or 2 network affiliates either (I think Fox and ABC). Oh well, you can't have it all apparently.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious, is the new software what the SA8300HD has on Time Warner in Columbus? The interface, graphics, and some features were way nicer than the 1987 graphics on the 8300 in Cleveland. Looked real nice. They have a very nice on demand interface also, and channels like Universal HD and some others. But no ESPN2HD, or 2 network affiliates either (I think Fox and ABC). Oh well, you can't have it all apparently.



I don't know what they're running in Columbus, but you might be seeing the difference between SARA and Passport firmware. There are also different flavors of third-party middleware available to the MSOs for running services like VOD, so it's possible that two different systems running the same manufacturer's firmware could be running different middleware for various services. This could result in a different look.


----------



## burgher

For anyone's info- Direct TVs spot beam local for 19.1 is STILL substandard. The Ravens/Chiefs brdcst was jittery and had what I can only describe as a "mask of graininess" over the entire broadcast. From bad to worse when motion would increase. This poor quality issue was totally cleared up with the Saints/Cowboys on 3.1. I know this subject has been dealt with on the board before but, just observing the way 19 has dragged its feet on the whole HD thing the past few years, you gotta wonder if they're giving D*TV junk to process.

Thank God for OTA. I'd be going crazy if I HAD to look at D*TV's local for CBS games.

Also, wanting to watch the boob show that is The Ghost Whisperer on CBS ( I think Friday night) did anyone catch the "newly re-mastered in HD Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer"??? Trust me, I did not tune in just for this but got caught viewing the beginning. Since when does "newly re-mastered in HD" equate to 4X3 with black sidebars ??? Was someone at 19 asleep at the switch again ??


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... did anyone catch the "newly re-mastered in HD Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer"??? Trust me, I did not tune in just for this but got caught viewing the beginning. Since when does "newly re-mastered in HD" equate to 4X3 with black sidebars ??? Was someone at 19 asleep at the switch again ??



It was remastered in HD last year and it looked really good. The good news is they kept the OAR by leaving it in 4:3 and not stretching it or processing it in any way to fill at 16:9 screen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious, is the new software what the SA8300HD has on Time Warner in Columbus? The interface, graphics, and some features were way nicer than the 1987 graphics on the 8300 in Cleveland. Looked real nice. They have a very nice on demand interface also, and channels like Universal HD and some others. But no ESPN2HD, or 2 network affiliates either (I think Fox and ABC). Oh well, you can't have it all apparently.



I don't think you will see anymore updates on the SA 8300 until June, but if your curious as to what you have go here . This will give you information on how to access the diagnostic screen on the SA 8300. You can see what version of SARA your currently running.


Rumor has it you will be running Passport software in June, that's why I don't think you'll see anymore updates.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder how they expect to get their puny signal to all the cable headends in the outlying areas (or not-so-outlying areas like Lake County) after 2009? Don't most cable systems pick up the DT signal OTA?
> 
> 
> Pretty dumb to lose so much coverage just to save a few bucks on the electric bill.



I'm wondering how cable headends in places like Mansfield and New Philly/Dover will be getting their signal.


But here's my other question-after analog shutoff, will they still remap as Channel 19 or will they become known as Channel 10?


----------



## hookbill

I apologize in advance if this has been mentioned, but WNOW, 719 is now available on Time Warner Cable. Looked like the audio was really out of synche. And PQ was bad, at least until I unstretched it. Then it didn't look to bad.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how cable headends in places like Mansfield and New Philly/Dover will be getting their signal.
> 
> 
> But here's my other question-after analog shutoff, will they still remap as Channel 19 or will they become known as Channel 10?



Do cable companies in rural areas get their local affiliates through antennas?


Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do cable companies in rural areas get their local affiliates through antennas?
> 
> 
> Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.



I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?



If that's the case then WOIO wouldn't have to worry about the far reaches of its viewing area. Just like what someone else mentioned here, they would just rely on the cable and satellite companies to make up for what their OTA signal lacks. I don't honestly think that an area like Dover/New Philadelphia could rely on an OTA signal that far away to rebroadcast through cable/satellite. It would be too fuzzy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If that's the case then WOIO wouldn't have to worry about the far reaches of its viewing area. Just like what someone else mentioned here, they would just rely on the cable and satellite companies to make up for what their OTA signal lacks. I don't honestly think that an area like Dover/New Philadelphia could rely on an OTA signal that far away to rebroadcast through cable/satellite. It would be too fuzzy.



Here's my understanding. Radio signals are sent through the air and bounce of the ionosphere. Television on the other hand goes straight into space, no bouncing. Plus part of the problem with any OTA broadcast is all the interference today. With all the other signals, microwave, wireless phones, etc. it just makes it hard to pick up anything OTA unless you live close to the broadcaster.


So I think head ends that are further away then downtown Cleveland get the signal bounced off a satellite.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's my understanding. Radio signals are sent through the air and bounce of the ionosphere. Television on the other hand goes straight into space, no bouncing. Plus part of the problem with any OTA broadcast is all the interference today. With all the other signals, microwave, wireless phones, etc. it just makes it hard to pick up anything OTA unless you live close to the broadcaster.
> 
> 
> So I think head ends that are further away then downtown Cleveland get the signal bounced off a satellite.



That is true. TV and FM signals don't bounce off the ionosphere except in rare, very rare, atmospheric conditions. A huge antenna in the far reaches of Cleveland wouldn't do any good if it's way below the Cleveland horizon line... the same way that I couldn't get any NYC OTAs no matter how big an antenna I used here in Akron. That is why I'm thinking that areas like Dover/New Philadelphia use satelittes to receive their locals with such a crisp picture and no fuzz.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?



But only for a monthly fee now of course.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do cable companies in rural areas get their local affiliates through antennas?
> 
> 
> Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.



I don't know about nowadays, but in the 80s they did.


Warner Amex Cable in Canton back in the early 80s padded the local channel offering with anything they could pick up with a huge antenna...so they had, among others:


WTRF Wheeling

WTOV Steubenville

All Cleveland channels

All Youngstown channels


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If that's the case then WOIO wouldn't have to worry about the far reaches of its viewing area. Just like what someone else mentioned here, they would just rely on the cable and satellite companies to make up for what their OTA signal lacks. I don't honestly think that an area like Dover/New Philadelphia could rely on an OTA signal that far away to rebroadcast through cable/satellite. It would be too fuzzy.



I'd bet they at least did so in the past.


Did people in Dover just not watch TV until cable came around??


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.



I was going to ask this myself without going through 241 pages of threads....


ie: 19 will eventually only be using the frequencies alloted for channel 10, & not every channel 19 is going to channel 10, plus the channel numberes corespond with the frequencies logicaly, so I would assume after the switch they should be called CBS Channel 10? ... WEWS will be known as TV 15 & so forth.. oooh they will have to change their logos & news sets, my bad.


Correct or am in not thinking like a cable operator?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> did anyone catch the "newly re-mastered in HD Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer"??? Trust me, I did not tune in just for this but got caught viewing the beginning. Since when does "newly re-mastered in HD" equate to 4X3 with black sidebars ??? Was someone at 19 asleep at the switch again ??



No - as already mentioned they kept the original 4X3 aspect ratio. Did you nothice the "CBS Eye" in the lower right hand corner (half over the pictire hals in the sidebar)? That is your clue that the 4X3 image was coming that way from the network. You can still be HD with a 4X3 aspect ratio. They did the film transfer in HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried very hard getting WKYC DT many times in Solon, finally I had to give up and move. I was up near Harper Ridge too, tallest point in Cuyahoga County and I still had issue getting WKYC.
> 
> 
> Of course now that we hear WKYC is weaning themselves off Stretch-O-Vision it's probably worthwhile to go through the hoops to get their over the air signal.



Where is "Harper Ridge"?

If it's in Broadview Heights then you are indeed at the highest point in Cuyahoga County. If OTOH it's onthe east side then you are not at the true high point of the County.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was going to ask this myself without going through 241 pages of threads....
> 
> 
> ie: 19 will eventually only be using the frequencies alloted for channel 10, & not every channel 19 is going to channel 10, plus the channel numberes corespond with the frequencies logicaly, so I would assume after the switch they should be called CBS Channel 10? ... WEWS will be known as TV 15 & so forth.. oooh they will have to change their logos & news sets, my bad.
> 
> 
> Correct or am in not thinking like a cable operator?



ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd bet they at least did so in the past.
> 
> 
> Did people in Dover just not watch TV until cable came around??



Actually I had a small TV just outside the Dover area (Leesville Lake) and got ABC from Pittsburgh, NBC and CBS from Steubenville and Wheeling (forgot which network came from which city). Anyway they got all their OTA TV from stations in 3 different states!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?



Those big dishes never had the Cleveland local stations - only stations from "Prime Time 24" and "The Denver 5". E* just got slapped by an injunction for selling out-of-market stations to non qualifying viewers.


While the locals are carried by both D* and E*, it's for their subscribers, not for cable systems. A few very small cable systems tried to buy local stations from E* and got shut off once they were exposed as rebroadcasting the E* feed unlawfully.


I met a techie from Dover who told me the cable systems got the Cleveland locals via a terrestrial microwave link from Richfield where a set of OTA antennas picked-up the signals (Richfield is the highest point in the region - even higher thatn anywhere in Cuyahoga County - that's how Summit Conty got it's name).


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I had a small TV just outside the Dover area (Leesville Lake) and got ABC from Pittsburgh, NBC and CBS from Steubenville and Wheeling (forgot which network came from which city). Anyway they got all their OTA TV from stations in 3 different states!



Steubenville - NBC WTOV Channel 9

Wheeling - CBS WTRF Channel 7


Was this a rooftop antenna?


And how did they end up in the Cleveland DMA then?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I'd never pull Y-Town Analog or DTV, I'm below the ridge in northern Lake County, I really can't pull in the Cleveland LP's either except for 32, & the Akron PBS'es are an impossibility too.



See the coverage map for WKBN-DT http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html , the signal reaches out over Lake Erie from Downtown Cleveland eastward! Sure there is a ridge to overcome, but with a tall enough tower WKBN-DT would be 24/7 for you in Lake County. I get it 24/7 here in Parma.


----------



## akron05

Would a few currently bare trees block me from getting WKBN in east Akron?? Antennaweb says I should get it, but I can't. My old house I could.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.



Thanks for the information. I've never heard of this until now.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can still be HD with a 4X3 aspect ratio.



That's not entirely true. HDTV requires a 16:9 aspect ratio, but says nothing about pillarboxing or letterboxing. So in this case they took a 4:3 film and transferred it to HD and kept the OAR with pillarboxing.


SD upconverts during the day on local affiliates are technically transmitted in HD since you'll find them in the affiliates' standard format (1080i/720p). Though the quality of true HD sources should be apparent.


I should have said before that they did add pillarboxing to Rudolph to make it fill a 16:9 frame.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I should have said before that they did add pillarboxing to Rudolph to make it fill a 16:9 frame.



I was going to argue that point but when he pointed out where the CBS eye was I figured it out.


----------



## JJkizak

Gee, another variation to confuse the consumer. 16 x 9 HD in 4 x 3 with black bars. This is a perfect scenerio for Bud Abbot & Lew Costello----"Whose on first"


JJK


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> See the coverage map for WKBN-DT http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html , the signal reaches out over Lake Erie from Downtown Cleveland eastward! Sure there is a ridge to overcome, but with a tall enough tower WKBN-DT would be 24/7 for you in Lake County. I get it 24/7 here in Parma.



TY for the link, might prove useful, though i don't know if these maps hold water, I'm below the Ridge in central Lake county, which our reception (north of Rt 84) is diminished. Ch 41?? I'll have to look into it.


The Map for NTSC 27 also puts Southern Lake & all of Geauga County in the viewing area, I could not pull this in from Chardon either.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.



I can see the ATSC tuner I was setting up knows 28 is the digital Equivilant for 43, this type of thinking though renders channel numbers useless. I can see this happening now till we get used to the evident change, but would think stations like 43 as example would call themselves 28 in the end.


Sounds just like the corporation coordinating the Area code changes with muti splits & overlays!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how cable headends in places like Mansfield and New Philly/Dover will be getting their signal.



Large operators that have a presence in smaller towns will often pipe them in via fiber. No line-of-sight needed.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.



Re Reading this would make sense, however you still need a number to punch in, to get to Digital 5 you still need to punch in 15... only makes sence for 5 to call themselves 15... so the V Channel you would punch in,,, ie if ABC was still on 15 here, & ABC's nationwide virtual channel was 4, punching in 04 would take you to channel 15 transparently??


----------



## Bismarck440

I'm finding that the new LCD I setup is causing interference to the other analog TV's in the house (Especially on Channel 3), this a common occourance or am I looking at something defective?


----------



## burgher

WKYC's stretch-o-vision has truly come to an end. Dr. Phil has lost 70 lbs. overnight !!!!

Thanks folks for the help with understanding "Rudolph". I should have known to look at the ID label to confirm what they we're doing.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re Reading this would make sense, however you still need a number to punch in, to get to Digital 5 you still need to punch in 15... only makes sence for 5 to call themselves 15... so the V Channel you would punch in,,, ie if ABC was still on 15 here, & ABC's nationwide virtual channel was 4, punching in 04 would take you to channel 15 transparently??



That's where auto scanning comes in. That way the TV can find the channels for you and you don't have to be the wiser as to what the original channel assignment is.


It's doubtful that ABC (or any affiliate) would have a nation wide virtual channel because of the number of markets that can receive more than one ABC affiliate.


Channel remapping exists for a number of reasons, but I believe the strongest reason is so no matter what channel a certain affiliate ends up broadcasting on, they can continue to use the branding they've been using for years.


----------



## akron05

Will WVIZ-DT ever power up their digital signal?? They must have a double-A battery in their transmitter at the moment.


I'm in south Akron and WVIZ analog is one of my best stations, actually, but their digital signal gives nary a blip for me. I am 8 mi from WEAO so I can already get PBS OTA, and granted, what little PBS I do watch I usually can see on WEAO, but it would still be nice to get WVIZ too since they have different programming.


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

Can your S3 play m2t or HD-WMV files through the network connection?


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> Can your S3 play m2t or HD-WMV files through the network connection?
> 
> 
> JJK



No. I'm not sure what m2t is but right now the only files I can play through the network are music files and downloaded pictures.


HD-WMV I doubt they will allow when they do open up TiVo to Go for the S3. Right now we are hoping we can just move our HD recordings to our computers but that depends on what cablelabs decides. And because it's being controlled by cable labs that's why I doubt HD-WMV will be allowed.


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> That's where auto scanning comes in. That way the TV can find the channels for you and you don't have to be the wiser as to what the original channel assignment is.



All the channels that I receive OTA broadcast their call letters and some even have short descriptions of the subs that they are broadcasting. Once my tuner has the mapped channel information I just enter in the mapped number (3.1, 5.1, 49.2) that I want and never need to know the actual broadcast channel.


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> WKYC's stretch-o-vision has truly come to an end. Dr. Phil has lost 70 lbs. overnight !!!!



Amazing. What will they do next? Drop the useless whether subs and allocate full bandwith to HD?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will WVIZ-DT ever power up their digital signal?? They must have a double-A battery in their transmitter at the moment.
> 
> 
> I'm in south Akron and WVIZ analog is one of my best stations, actually, but their digital signal gives nary a blip for me. I am 8 mi from WEAO so I can already get PBS OTA, and granted, what little PBS I do watch I usually can see on WEAO, but it would still be nice to get WVIZ too since they have different programming.



I'm also looking forward to the time when WVIZ powers up. I'm hoping to see the PBS HD channel 24/7, just like when WEAO had it. I really enjoyed the nature and travel programs in HD. I don't really care for the channels that WEAO airs at the moment. I'm not among the old audience who watches the Lawrence Welk show. There are very few programs on those channels that I currently watch, but PBS HD was nice.


I'm beginning to wonder why Cleveland is lacking a full-power digital PBS station, considering that it's such a large DMA. I know they have tower issues, but there's been plenty of years to work those out.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm also looking forward to the time when WVIZ powers up. I'm hoping to see the PBS HD channel 24/7, just like when WEAO had it. I really enjoyed the nature and travel programs in HD. I don't really care for the channels that WEAO airs at the moment. I'm not among the old audience who watches the Lawrence Welk show. There are very few programs on those channels that I currently watch, but PBS HD was nice.
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder why Cleveland is lacking a full-power digital PBS station, considering that it's such a large DMA. I know they have tower issues, but there's been plenty of years to work those out.



WEAO had HD at one time?? I do like the subchannel 1 that shows a lot of cooking shows, but I'd rather have HD.


Will they bring it back?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEAO had HD at one time?? I do like the subchannel 1 that shows a lot of cooking shows, but I'd rather have HD.
> 
> 
> Will they bring it back?



Yes, WEAO-DT and WNEO-DT aired the 24/7 PBS HD channel when they both started broadcasting OTA (WNEO started about a year before WEAO). They had PBS HD on subchannel 1 and their analog broadcast in SD on subchannel 2. They stopped that, and so I emailed the engineer at the station. He told me that it was a money issue that they stopped airing the HD. I forget the whole reason, but I was told that it will eventually return. The HD channel was nice to have.


----------



## paule123

Just got a letter from WOW saying basic digital cable is going up $6 a month to $62.99 / mo. Add to that $9.99 for the HDPak, and $12.99/mo for the HD DVR. No premium movie channels other than STARZ in that package. (STARZ is "free" on WOW)


I can't wait until ATT U-Verse service starts around here to give these guys some pricing competition.


----------



## akron05

Will Verizon bring FiOS here?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will Verizon bring FiOS here?



Nope. This is SBC (now ATT) territory.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope. This is SBC (now ATT) territory.



I'm in Windstream territory which puts me even farther out of the picture. I wish I was in AT&T territory. I think it would solve my 911 issue with Vonage. And that's as far off topic as I can get.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Windstream territory which puts me even farther out of the picture. I wish I was in AT&T territory. I think it would solve my 911 issue with Vonage. And that's as far off topic as I can get.



I looked into what Windstream was all about, and I've read mostly horror stories with installation, billing, and performance. There's threads about them over on broadbandreports.com


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Windstream territory which puts me even farther out of the picture. I wish I was in AT&T territory. I think it would solve my 911 issue with Vonage. And that's as far off topic as I can get.



Where is Windstream's territory? I see their commercials on TV, it appears that they are doing the same thing AT&T is doing (bundling Dish Network with phone & DSL service). The only phone companies I'm aware of in the Cleveland DMA are AT&T (formerly SBC/Ameritech/Ohio Bell), Verizion (fromerly GTE) Alltel (formerly Western Reserve/Mid Continent), and Century Tel.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where is Windstream's territory? I see their commercials on TV, it appears that they are doing the same thing AT&T is doing (bundling Dish Network with phone & DSL service). The only phone companies I'm aware of in the Cleveland DMA are AT&T (formerly SBC/Ameritech/Ohio Bell), Verizion (fromerly GTE) Alltel (formerly Western Reserve/Mid Continent), and Century Tel.



Here ya go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windstream_Communications 


"Windstream Communications is the result of a spinoff-merger of Alltel's wireline (local telephone) business with that of Valor Telecom. The company was named on April 10, 2006, and began operations on July 17, 2006."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked into what Windstream was all about, and I've read mostly horror stories with installation, billing, and performance. There's threads about them over on broadbandreports.com



Which is why I don't use them for anything. TV and internet is TW, phone is Vonage, and cell is Verizon. 3 different bills from 3 different companies, and I'm just fine with it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder why Cleveland is lacking a full-power digital PBS station, considering that it's such a large DMA. I know they have tower issues, but there's been plenty of years to work those out.



The tower issues are actually more legal/political than technical. And they have some very sharp engineers there. It will take as long as it takes and no longer.


----------



## JJkizak

I Have had Windstream DSL for about 5 months now without any problems. The bill is one with the land line phone. The only install problem that people should be aware of is the kit comes with 4 filters which are not enough (needed about 10). Each filter costs $8.40. On the phone they said it's easier to go with the whole house filter mounted on the outside of the house. ($19.95). I said ok and done deal. The lead in from the filter is tied to the two unused wires on the phone lines so you can pick it up anywher in the house with a split adapter. I turn mine on & off every day no problem, it syncs up before the computer gets out of the SCSI boot post.


JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will Verizon bring FiOS here?



Perhaps, in the few areas that they serve as the local telco (mostly Medina County and surrounding areas into Lorain and Summit - but not in AT&T or Windstream areas).


----------



## Andrew K

I emailed WKYC about their Akron/Canton news, and I asked why they don't air it on their subchannel 3-2. They never answered me, and that was months ago that I asked.


It's a shame in my opinion that WOAC is going to waste. It looks like it used to have some decent programming about 20 years ago. There may be a portion of Cleveland that speaks other languages, but I'm sure that most of the people who will be watching this new channel can speak English to a certain extent anyways. After all, they should be able to speak English if they live here, or else how would they be able to get by without speaking English!! As a result, the 99% or more of this area who can speak English will lose out. We continue to be without a true independent outlet, and yet we let a good high-power station go to waste. But then again, maybe, just maybe something good will happen.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I emailed WKYC about their Akron/Canton news, and I asked why they don't air it on their subchannel 3-2. They never answered me, and that was months ago that I asked.



Something I've read about this recently online:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/1...e-put-off.html 



> Quote:
> Why can't new TWC subscribers in Summit County watch the WKYC/3-produced, TWC-sponsored "Akron/Canton News" with Eric Mansfield?
> 
> 
> We asked the question directly to TWC's local spokesman, Bill Jasso, and here's his response:
> 
> _We hope to make our "Akron/Canton News" available to a wider audience in the future. Right now are faced with three separate cable systems (Time Warner, Adelphia, Comcast) that need to become one network. Once that happens (hopefully by Spring) we can begin to explore advantages like that._



As to your specific question, "WeatherPlus" is designed to run 24/7. There's nowhere to "put" the Akron/Canton newscast on 3.2. I don't think they can even sub the video so it doesn't rotate to the various weather elements.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a shame in my opinion that WOAC is going to waste. It looks like it used to have some decent programming about 20 years ago. There may be a portion of Cleveland that speaks other languages, but I'm sure that most of the people who will be watching this new channel can speak English to a certain extent anyways. After all, they should be able to speak English if they live here, or else how would they be able to get by without speaking English!! As a result, the 99% or more of this area who can speak English will lose out. We continue to be without a true independent outlet, and yet we let a good high-power station go to waste. But then again, maybe, just maybe something good will happen.



Here's another one that is within my range according to the FCC Maps (Yeah Right) ... I guess I'm not missing anything, is this converting from a Shopping Channel to Univision or Telemundo?


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's another one that is within my range according to the FCC Maps (Yeah Right) ... I guess I'm not missing anything, is this converting from a Shopping Channel to Univision or Telemundo?



Not Univision - that's Channel 61 (30 DT) WQHS.


Probably Telemundo. To serve the 11 Spanish-speaking people in NE Ohio that don't get WQHS.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just got a letter from WOW saying basic digital cable is going up $6 a month to $62.99 / mo. Add to that $9.99 for the HDPak, and $12.99/mo for the HD DVR. No premium movie channels other than STARZ in that package. (STARZ is "free" on WOW)
> 
> 
> I can't wait until ATT U-Verse service starts around here to give these guys some pricing competition.



Keep feeding them... when did Television become just another utility?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not Univision - that's Channel 61 (30 DT) WQHS.
> 
> 
> Probably Telemundo. To serve the 11 Spanish-speaking people in NE Ohio that don't get WQHS.










hmmm ever since Uni took over 61 the signal got better out here in the fringes, there is a high Mexican population in Painesville, Madison & Geneva, I wonder if that means WOAC will increase their range, according to the map they just miss Painesville, but I'm within the range but just don't pick this one up either...... Oh that's right they all have cable!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's where auto scanning comes in. That way the TV can find the channels for you and you don't have to be the wiser as to what the original channel assignment is.
> 
> 
> It's doubtful that ABC (or any affiliate) would have a nation wide virtual channel because of the number of markets that can receive more than one ABC affiliate.
> 
> 
> Channel remapping exists for a number of reasons, but I believe the strongest reason is so no matter what channel a certain affiliate ends up broadcasting on, they can continue to use the branding they've been using for years.



I still have to punch 28 fo get to the ATSC WUAB, but right, the set tells me I'm on 43-2 (it goes to the subs) .. punching 43 yields me the NTSC 43 Analog.... unless this perticular set does it this way?


What's in a number anyway, just eliminate channel numbers as they are now becoming meaningless. I kind of like the virtual channel number idea then.










When I put this set in auto program, it seems to program in a channel 27 for some reason although there is nothing there, I get a snowy picture on 32, & 51, yet the set ignores these signals.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still have to punch 28 fo get to the ATSC WUAB, but right, the set tells me I'm on 43-2 (it goes to the subs) .. punching 43 yields me the NTSC 43 Analog.... unless this perticular set does it this way?
> 
> 
> What's in a number anyway, just eliminate channel numbers as they are now becoming meaningless. I kind of like the virtual channel number idea then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I put this set in auto program, it seems to program in a channel 27 for some reason although there is nothing there, I get a snowy picture on 32, & 51, yet the set ignores these signals.



Once I think about it, I highly doubt that all network affiliates will be branded the same remapped channel number. This wouldn't work because CBS for example can be picked up from WKBN and WOIO here in NE Ohio.


When I allow my TV to do a scan for all digital and analog channels available, it misses several available channels. This is because I can't point my directional antenna in all the varying directions of the transmitters. That's why the viewer must have some knowledge of the actual channel number that the digital signal is broadcasting on in order to manually program those into the TV.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still have to punch 28 fo get to the ATSC WUAB, but right, the set tells me I'm on 43-2 (it goes to the subs) .. punching 43 yields me the NTSC 43 Analog.... unless this perticular set does it this way?
> 
> 
> What's in a number anyway, just eliminate channel numbers as they are now becoming meaningless. I kind of like the virtual channel number idea then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I put this set in auto program, it seems to program in a channel 27 for some reason although there is nothing there, I get a snowy picture on 32, & 51, yet the set ignores these signals.



On my E* 921 if I happen to have an analog station scanned into the guide punching in "43" would go to the analog. However I have the option to delete the analogs from the guide, punching "43" gives me "043-01" (btw: 43.2 is The Tube). I do keep several analogs in my guide. WFMJ, for instance 21.0 is analog (the ".0" is not seen in the guide but that is it's official designation in the ATSC rules). When I hit "21" I get the analog (since the digital is not 24/7 out here, while when I hit "27" I get 27.1 since I have no need for the analog WKBN (and it does not come in well enough to watch while the digital is virtually 24/7).


Perhaps if you entered 43.1 (if there is a "." on your remote) you would not have to enter 28. On my 921 entering "04302" gives me The Tube.


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not Univision - that's Channel 61 (30 DT) WQHS.
> 
> 
> Probably Telemundo. To serve the 11 Spanish-speaking people in NE Ohio that don't get WQHS.




I wish there was UnivisionHD...


----------



## akron05

I finally did it!!


I got WKBN-DT to lock in Akron!


After HOURS of messing with the antenna rotator, I found a half-inch wide swath where I can lock WKBN. Signal strength is low, but I've been watching for about an hour and have had no dropouts. I swear, a gust of wind will probably knock it off!!


Can't get WFMJ to save my life though. Even though Antennaweb says I can.


----------



## akron05

If I could cut down my neighbor's trees I could probably get WFMJ-DT too. Or erect a 75 foot tower. But since I don't own this house, I won't bother with all that.


I get 27 analog rather well. I can get 21 but my antenna points SOUTH at best reception instead of ESE...I think partly because of the trees in the way. Analog 21 crackles a lot with ghosting when the antenna is in the same spot that is optimum for both analog 27 and digital 41/virtual 27.


Would some type of preamp or amplifier make enough difference for me to lock onto WFMJ?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I could cut down my neighbor's trees I could probably get WFMJ-DT too. Or erect a 75 foot tower. But since I don't own this house, I won't bother with all that.
> 
> 
> I get 27 analog rather well. I can get 21 but my antenna points SOUTH at best reception instead of ESE...I think partly because of the trees in the way. Analog 21 crackles a lot with ghosting when the antenna is in the same spot that is optimum for both analog 27 and digital 41/virtual 27.
> 
> 
> Would some type of preamp or amplifier make enough difference for me to lock onto WFMJ?



An amplifier definitely helps me here in Akron, so give it a try. Without it, I don't get any trace of a Youngstown station at all. I would also recommend the silver sensor with amplifier. It may be an indoor antenna, but it may give you more flexibility in finding that sweet spot for WKBN-DT. Just aim it out a window, and try to minimize any obstructions caused by the house. I can't get a picture from WKBN-DT where I'm at, but I'm half-way down the east side of the Cuyahoga Valley and I still get a blip on the signal indicator. Good luck.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Just noticed that KYC is having a web chat with some technical director at KYC tonight at 6:30 regarding HD questions. So if anybody wants to ask about the stretch-o-vision or anything, now's your chance!


Link is here.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An amplifier definitely helps me here in Akron, so give it a try. Without it, I don't get any trace of a Youngstown station at all. I would also recommend the silver sensor with amplifier. It may be an indoor antenna, but it may give you more flexibility in finding that sweet spot for WKBN-DT. Just aim it out a window, and try to minimize any obstructions caused by the house. I can't get a picture from WKBN-DT where I'm at, but I'm half-way down the east side of the Cuyahoga Valley and I still get a blip on the signal indicator. Good luck.



I don't think an indoor antenna will do much good. I only have one east-facing window and it faces right into my neighbor's aluminum siding.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An amplifier definitely helps me here in Akron, so give it a try. Without it, I don't get any trace of a Youngstown station at all. I would also recommend the silver sensor with amplifier. It may be an indoor antenna, but it may give you more flexibility in finding that sweet spot for WKBN-DT. Just aim it out a window, and try to minimize any obstructions caused by the house. I can't get a picture from WKBN-DT where I'm at, but I'm half-way down the east side of the Cuyahoga Valley and I still get a blip on the signal indicator. Good luck.



I found a decent 10 degree area I can get WKBN just dandy. However, I tried WFMJ at every little position in that 10 degree area and nothing.


At my old place I could get WTOV analog out of Steubenville and can't do that anymore, either. However, I was about 100 feet higher in elevation there. This was before the days of digital TV but I could get a nearly crystal-clear reception of 21 and 27 off my roof antenna there, and 33 was snowy but watchable. This was also in the Ellet area.


Where I'm at now, 21 is somewhat snowy, but watchable, as is 27. 33 has no discernable sound but shadowy, snowy color picture.


This morning I was getting a black and white snowy picture from WICU in Erie.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> This morning I was getting a black and white snowy picture from WICU in Erie.



So was I on my rabbit ears upstairs, must have been Ideal conditions, was actually clear out, unusual for December here so close to the lake.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally did it!!
> 
> 
> I got WKBN-DT to lock in Akron!
> 
> 
> After HOURS of messing with the antenna rotator, I found a half-inch wide swath where I can lock WKBN. Signal strength is low, but I've been watching for about an hour and have had no dropouts. I swear, a gust of wind will probably knock it off!!
> 
> 
> Can't get WFMJ to save my life though. Even though Antennaweb says I can.




Antenna Web, a site??


I Think just about anything other than CFPL from my area is a lost cause, I'm just too far below the ridge.


Always wondered why the transmitters were located all in Seven Hills/Parma, one would think Chardon with a NW directioal beam would be much better transmitter locations for the area.

Much Higer.


Seems I'm just stuck with my basic networks out of Cleveland, & soon will be losing 19 too.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Antenna Web, a site??
> 
> 
> I Think just about anything other than CFPL from my area is a lost cause, I'm just too far below the ridge.
> 
> 
> Always wondered why the transmitters were located all in Seven Hills/Parma, one would think Chardon with a NW directioal beam would be much better transmitter locations for the area.
> 
> Much Higer.
> 
> 
> Seems I'm just stuck with my basic networks out of Cleveland, & soon will be losing 19 too.



Ohio seems to have a dislike for repeater/translator stations, too. I find it odd that over the years they never put in repeaters in New Philadelphia/Dover, or Mansfield, or up in your neck of the woods. Well, I know WVIZ and WDLI have them up there, but never the major affiliates. I don't mean now in the cable age, but they never had them, IIRC.


----------



## akron05

BTW does anyone know if people have been successful with HDTV OTA in Tuscarawas County?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Antenna Web, a site??
> 
> 
> I Think just about anything other than CFPL from my area is a lost cause, I'm just too far below the ridge.
> 
> 
> Always wondered why the transmitters were located all in Seven Hills/Parma, one would think Chardon with a NW directioal beam would be much better transmitter locations for the area.
> 
> Much Higer.
> 
> 
> Seems I'm just stuck with my basic networks out of Cleveland, & soon will be losing 19 too.



Actually Richfield would have been the best place for the towers. That is the highest point in Northeast Ohio (and how Summit County got it's name).


Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield.


At the time radio broadcasting began Parma was "in the boonies". No consideration for future expansion of the population was considered when Parma became the antenna farm for Cleveland-liceensed radio and TV stations.


Then Akron got a TV station (originally WAKR on ch 49). Since it was an ABC affiliate they had to "protect" WEWS. So the Akron towers were located in West Akron below the Richfield summit, effectivly blocking the signal from Cuyahoga County.


Since the Akron stations no longer carry duplicate programming they should relocate to the Richfield summit along with all the Cleveland stations.


I know that this is cost prohibitive, but it's would solve a lot of problems across the entire Cleveland market.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually Richfield would have been the best place for the towers. That is the highest point in Northeast Ohio (and how Summit County got it's name).
> 
> 
> Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield.
> 
> 
> At the time radio broadcasting began Parma was "in the boonies". No consideration for future expansion of the population was considered when Parma became the antenna farm for Cleveland-liceensed radio and TV stations.
> 
> 
> Then Akron got a TV station (originally WAKR on ch 49). Since it was an ABC affiliate they had to "protect" WEWS. So the Akron towers were located in West Akron below the Richfield summit, effectivly blocking the signal from Cuyahoga County.
> 
> 
> Since the Akron stations no longer carry duplicate programming they should relocate to the Richfield summit along with all the Cleveland stations.
> 
> 
> I know that this is cost prohibitive, but it's would solve a lot of problems across the entire Cleveland market.



I think you could put ALL Of them in Richfield, except maybe WOAC and WDLI, since they have to be close enough to their city of license to put a Grade A signal in there. Not sure if Canton would be grade A from Richfield or not. Although, with the elevation it may well be.


Just as Youngstown could probably have better coverage putting their towers at the highest point in Mahoning County.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually Richfield would have been the best place for the towers. That is the highest point in Northeast Ohio (and how Summit County got it's name).
> 
> 
> Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield.
> 
> 
> At the time radio broadcasting began Parma was "in the boonies". No consideration for future expansion of the population was considered when Parma became the antenna farm for Cleveland-liceensed radio and TV stations.
> 
> 
> Then Akron got a TV station (originally WAKR on ch 49). Since it was an ABC affiliate they had to "protect" WEWS. So the Akron towers were located in West Akron below the Richfield summit, effectivly blocking the signal from Cuyahoga County.
> 
> 
> Since the Akron stations no longer carry duplicate programming they should relocate to the Richfield summit along with all the Cleveland stations.
> 
> 
> I know that this is cost prohibitive, but it's would solve a lot of problems across the entire Cleveland market.



Why did WAKR have to protect WEWS but WEWS didn't have to protect WAKR? Sounds like WAKR was doomed from the start.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Listening to the KYC HD broadcast. The KYC guy did acknowledge that they have discontinued the stretch-o-vision as of last week. It was a conscious decision on their part.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I missed the first part of the broadcast, but the guy also did acknowledge that KYC will be going to a UHF frequency. I can't remember if that was known already or not based on the submittals to the FCC, but I thought I'd pass it along. And no word on when that will be.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I missed the first part of the broadcast, but the guy also did acknowledge that KYC will be going to a UHF frequency. I can't remember if that was known already or not based on the submittals to the FCC, but I thought I'd pass it along. And no word on when that will be.



It will be Channel 17. Probably after analog shutoff in '09.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield..



It would have to be a South/Southwest directional beam out of Chardon. Central to eastern Lake county can barely pick up the farm in Parma, Richfield is even further out, & 23 Akron's coverage really doesn't include Lake County (Could not pick it up in Willowick or Mentor) (read somewhere that, 23's original allocation was Channel 11, don't think it actually got off the ground though)


Ashtabula County I found is actually better covered by Erie, I could barely pick up a signal from Cleveland in Ashtabula (City)


When I lived out West, SLC had repeaters throughout Utah for the main network there stations. Chardon location repeaters would likely fill the holes out east. Guess that was deemed un-needed here.


----------



## Bismarck440

Think the digital TV is going back to the store, poor signal on the digitals, & poor analog performance compared to the old NTSC sets.


I think the tuners are now designed for those with cable now unfortunately.


My take on this, are they putting degraded analog tuners in these sets, compared to the older ones? Its becoming a frustrating experience trying to tune the antennas for this.


I've found this out that normally what applies to the NTSC set normally does not apply to the new digital set, lowering the antenna by 6 feet out of the attic actually improved the signal on all channels (analog) except for channel 3... switching back to RG59 from RG6 improved 3 somewhat, but degraded the others

this is on the older analog set.


Are those Square shooters sufficent for the fringe areas?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Think the digital TV is going back to the store, poor signal on the digitals, & poor analog performance compared to the old NTSC sets.



I think all they sell now is digital TV. If your having that much problem with OTA then you probably need either cable or satellite.


The TiVo S3 is said to have remarkable OTA ability, many use it as their only tuner without cable. I can't speak from experience on that. But I don't think returning your tv will help your situation.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've found this out that normally what applies to the NTSC set normally does not apply to the new digital set, lowering the antenna by 6 feet out of the attic actually improved the signal on all channels (analog) except for channel 3... switching back to RG59 from RG6 improved 3 somewhat, but degraded the others
> 
> this is on the older analog set.
> 
> 
> Are those Square shooters sufficent for the fringe areas?



While I can't speak from direct experience, alot of research I have been doing to buy an OTA antenna suggests its all about location and surroundings. I had a Tech person at Winegard say it doesn't matter how good the antenna is, if I've got trees and the like in close proximity, I'm going to loose signal strength. Getting a "stronger" antenna wouldn't help me. As for the Square Shooter, I've read they are weak in the VHF range. Make sure you get the amplified version. I, personally am looking at a Sensar III. Again with the extremely tall trees in the direction of the transmitter farm, I'm not sure it will do much better than my rabbit ears. I think it was Akron05 that suggested a tower or a chainsaw. I might have to consider those.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Think the digital TV is going back to the store, poor signal on the digitals, & poor analog performance compared to the old NTSC sets.
> 
> 
> I think the tuners are now designed for those with cable now unfortunately.
> 
> 
> My take on this, are they putting degraded analog tuners in these sets, compared to the older ones? Its becoming a frustrating experience trying to tune the antennas for this.
> 
> 
> I've found this out that normally what applies to the NTSC set normally does not apply to the new digital set, lowering the antenna by 6 feet out of the attic actually improved the signal on all channels (analog) except for channel 3... switching back to RG59 from RG6 improved 3 somewhat, but degraded the others
> 
> this is on the older analog set.
> 
> 
> Are those Square shooters sufficent for the fringe areas?



I'm glad someone agrees with me here!!! I feel your pain. TV sets can be greatly improved.


I have a decent $80 portable radio that covers FM starting at 76 MHz. I can tune it to 87.75 MHz on the digital read-out to receive the audio for TV channel 6. The other day, I could easily pick up a Canadian Global affiliate from Paris Ontario on channel 6 audio, and it wasn't even a good atmospheric condition. Let me say that I've never received this station on any TV I've ever had. Channel 5 audio can be picked up on 81.75 MHz, and I don't even need an antenna for it at all. The visual signal is broadcast on a lower frequency that causes a muted audio on that frequency. Remember, this is a cheap radio that gets normal FM reception. Whether people realize it or not, TVs can be *greatly* improved, and that is half the battle. But there's nothing on the market that I know of that performs very well.


The reason that the manufacturers haven't improved their TVs is because people don't see a problem with them. I know that the antenna is the main issue when it comes to reception, but we wouldn't have to be trying all of these massive antennas if the manufacturer just made the TV better, which I know they could. Like I've said before, I shouldn't need an outdoor antenna for digital to get the same channels I can get through analog with an indoor antenna.


----------



## JJkizak

Andrew K:

I have a standard NTSC Sony 25" TV in the same living room as a new Sony LCD 46XBR2 and for now I can say the tuner in the LCD is far superior to the 25' job, the Samsung T165 (2), LG 3510A, and the MY-HD 120 HDTV card. The "lock on" is really quick compared to the other tuners and the channel switching is about three times faster. Whereas before I would get analog OTA 49 really noisy it is now almost noise free. 47.3 is fairly steady now but before it was almost not there. PBS 49.1,2,3 are almost rock solid whereas before they were constantly fading loosing lock. I am guessing the tuner sensitivity has improved about 10db. I presently have 2 splitters in line with RG6, about 40 ft. to both TV's. OTA analog 65, 67, 29, 32, 53 have also improved. 17.1,2,3,4,5 now stay locked on very well. The antenna is fixed (DC9000) aiming at Cleveland.

JJK


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While I can't speak from direct experience, alot of research I have been doing to buy an OTA antenna suggests its all about location and surroundings. I had a Tech person at Winegard say it doesn't matter how good the antenna is, if I've got trees and the like in close proximity, I'm going to loose signal strength. Getting a "stronger" antenna wouldn't help me. As for the Square Shooter, I've read they are weak in the VHF range. Make sure you get the amplified version. I, personally am looking at a Sensar III. Again with the extremely tall trees in the direction of the transmitter farm, I'm not sure it will do much better than my rabbit ears. I think it was Akron05 that suggested a tower or a chainsaw. I might have to consider those.



The hardest thing about OTA reception in most of the eastern half of the US are trees, and in some areas, hills. As I drove to work this morning, I made mental notes of every house I saw that had too many tall trees for good OTA reception - it was over 50% at least. I love a treed yard, but that's something to consider if you like getting OTA signals. About 25% probably don't even have a good enough spot for a D* or E* Dish either.


I can say right now I'll probably lose WKBN in April once that tree in my neighbor's yard leafs out.


I did see one house that had an antenna, and it was neat how they did it. The yard goes back about 200 feet, the front is cleared, with trees in the back. There is a tower right at the very back of the property that clears the trees, but from the front of the house you don't even see it unless you really look for it. Only thing I'd worry about is the 200 feet+ cable run, I don't know if you could get a good enough preamp to compensate for that or not.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While I can't speak from direct experience, alot of research I have been doing to buy an OTA antenna suggests its all about location and surroundings. I had a Tech person at Winegard say it doesn't matter how good the antenna is, if I've got trees and the like in close proximity, I'm going to loose signal strength. Getting a "stronger" antenna wouldn't help me. As for the Square Shooter, I've read they are weak in the VHF range. Make sure you get the amplified version. I, personally am looking at a Sensar III. Again with the extremely tall trees in the direction of the transmitter farm, I'm not sure it will do much better than my rabbit ears. I think it was Akron05 that suggested a tower or a chainsaw. I might have to consider those.



Lived in Atwater as a kid for a few years (mid 1980s.) We got cable the last year we lived there, but before that we had a big 'ol antenna with a rotator, on a hill, with few trees. And the antenna was on a tower, we could get, on MOST days, everything out of Cleveland/Akron/Canton, everything from Youngstown, WTOV in Steubenville (and WTRF Wheeling on a good night) and once in a while a watchable signal from Channel 2 and 4 in Pittsburgh.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad someone agrees with me here!!! I feel your pain. TV sets can be greatly improved.
> 
> 
> I have a decent $80 portable radio that covers FM starting at 76 MHz. I can tune it to 87.75 MHz on the digital read-out to receive the audio for TV channel 6. The other day, I could easily pick up a Canadian Global affiliate from Paris Ontario on channel 6 audio, and it wasn't even a good atmospheric condition. Let me say that I've never received this station on any TV I've ever had. Channel 5 audio can be picked up on 81.75 MHz, and I don't even need an antenna for it at all. The visual signal is broadcast on a lower frequency that causes a muted audio on that frequency. Remember, this is a cheap radio that gets normal FM reception. Whether people realize it or not, TVs can be *greatly* improved, and that is half the battle. But there's nothing on the market that I know of that performs very well.
> 
> 
> The reason that the manufacturers haven't improved their TVs is because people don't see a problem with them. I know that the antenna is the main issue when it comes to reception, but we wouldn't have to be trying all of these massive antennas if the manufacturer just made the TV better, which I know they could. Like I've said before, I shouldn't need an outdoor antenna for digital to get the same channels I can get through analog with an indoor antenna.



I have found that my portable 3" analog TV often gets better reception with its little whip antenna than my 32" analog JVC does with the roof antenna on fringe stations. They probably have a better tuner in the little portable since they know it won't be hooked into cable.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think all they sell now is digital TV. If your having that much problem with OTA then you probably need either cable or satellite.
> 
> 
> The TiVo S3 is said to have remarkable OTA ability, many use it as their only tuner without cable. I can't speak from experience on that. But I don't think returning your tv will help your situation.



Cable is out of the question here, Not caving in nor do I have an extra $30-80/month laying around.... I'll watch DVD's from the library if it comes to that.


Television is not a Utility, contrary to what Ted Turner thinks!











Anyhow the TiVo S3 do you need a Subscription to run this?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad someone agrees with me here!!! I feel your pain. TV sets can be greatly improved.
> 
> 
> I have a decent $80 portable radio that covers FM starting at 76 MHz. I can tune it to 87.75 MHz on the digital read-out to receive the audio for TV channel 6. The other day, I could easily pick up a Canadian Global affiliate from Paris Ontario on channel 6 audio, and it wasn't even a good atmospheric condition. Let me say that I've never received this station on any TV I've ever had. Channel 5 audio can be picked up on 81.75 MHz, and I don't even need an antenna for it at all. The visual signal is broadcast on a lower frequency that causes a muted audio on that frequency. Remember, this is a cheap radio that gets normal FM reception. Whether people realize it or not, TVs can be *greatly* improved, and that is half the battle. But there's nothing on the market that I know of that performs very well.
> 
> 
> The reason that the manufacturers haven't improved their TVs is because people don't see a problem with them. I know that the antenna is the main issue when it comes to reception, but we wouldn't have to be trying all of these massive antennas if the manufacturer just made the TV better, which I know they could. Like I've said before, I shouldn't need an outdoor antenna for digital to get the same channels I can get through analog with an indoor antenna.



On the same note andrew every subsiquent set I've dealt with in my life had a even better & better tuner, along with each VCR, though untill last year, I haven't bought a new set since 1985! ... I'm disappointed with this digital I'm setting up, & I also see there is going to be a problem on the 20" Phillips I bought last Februrary for my bedroom, I purchased this so I may watch DVD's as the '84 Zeinith (which also has an outstanding tuner) has no AV inputs, & I'm feelinig it's on it's last leg & didn't want to invest in a RF Converter.


I am running Rabbit Ears on my upstairs set now, though hooking these up to the new Phillips didn't seem to warrant a good picture at all, worse come to worse I only have $100 into this I can use it to play games.


----------



## Bismarck440

I also have scanning Equipment that covers TV audio, I can at times pick up clear Audio out of Youngstown from Northern Lake County.... with a indoor whip.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The hardest thing about OTA reception in most of the eastern half of the US are trees, and in some areas, hills. As I drove to work this morning, I made mental notes of every house I saw that had too many tall trees for good OTA reception - it was over 50% at least. I love a treed yard, but that's something to consider if you like getting OTA signals. About 25% probably don't even have a good enough spot for a D* or E* Dish either.
> 
> 
> I can say right now I'll probably lose WKBN in April once that tree in my neighbor's yard leafs out.
> 
> 
> I did see one house that had an antenna, and it was neat how they did it. The yard goes back about 200 feet, the front is cleared, with trees in the back. There is a tower right at the very back of the property that clears the trees, but from the front of the house you don't even see it unless you really look for it. Only thing I'd worry about is the 200 feet+ cable run, I don't know if you could get a good enough preamp to compensate for that or not.




There really are no Trees in the direct path to the southwest Parma farm on these antennas... a few in the distance, however ther rest of the yard is sufficently treed. 20 years ago with the same amount of trees & a smaller boom antenna with no amp the reception was great at this same location.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cable is out of the question here, Not caving in nor do I have an extra $30-80/month laying around.... I'll watch DVD's from the library if it comes to that.
> 
> 
> Television is not a Utility, contrary to what Ted Turner thinks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow the TiVo S3 do you need a Subscription to run this?



Yes, that's how you receive updates and guide info.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The hardest thing about OTA reception in most of the eastern half of the US are trees, and in some areas, hills. As I drove to work this morning, I made mental notes of every house I saw that had too many tall trees for good OTA reception - it was over 50% at least. I love a treed yard, but that's something to consider if you like getting OTA signals. About 25% probably don't even have a good enough spot for a D* or E* Dish either.



Alas, this is where the cable companies got us where they want us. We've got all this great technology in HDTV, but most of us can't get it reliably OTA. Even my wife says if this antenna I'm buying today doesn't do a good job, we'll just get cable. BUT I know we won't be paying the extra $$ for the digital feeds, so my HDTV is just a waste of money. Will the local networks improve their OTA tecnology? Probably not worth it to them. Easier to feed to the cable companies.


----------



## akron05

Cable HD just isn't as good as OTA either.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Alas, this is where the cable companies got us where they want us. We've got all this great technology in HDTV, but most of us can't get it reliably OTA. Even my wife says if this antenna I'm buying today doesn't do a good job, we'll just get cable. BUT I know we won't be paying the extra $$ for the digital feeds, so my HDTV is just a waste of money. Will the local networks improve their OTA tecnology? Probably not worth it to them. Easier to feed to the cable companies.



At least your wife is letting you get an antenna. Lots of women I know say "that thing isn't going on my roof."


My better half is neutral on it, and enough of a videophile to let me experiment!


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At least your wife is letting you get an antenna. Lots of women I know say "that thing isn't going on my roof."
> 
> 
> My better half is neutral on it, and enough of a videophile to let me experiment!



Well this isn't a full fledged antenna. The Winegard Sensar is more like a wing. Its got the range I need, but again, the trees are gonna kill that. I don't think the wife would let me have one of the more typical antennas. "As long as she has a good picture come American Idol time" that's all she's worried about.


----------



## PTXer

The Sensar III amplified has a 10-45 mile range, comfortably in the 23 miles for the Cleveland stations for me. It has a preamp and I will probably add a splitter/amp just after it enters the house. I'm about 70deg to the Akron stations too so I'm hoping it will pick up everything without having to rotate it. Its going on a 2 story house, but like I said, I've got the tall trees (15' taller than the house) just 50 or 60' away from the house to the Northwest. We'll see what happens..... And I know things will change too come spring. Oh well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Sensar III amplified has a 10-45 mile range, comfortably in the 23 miles for the Cleveland stations for me. It has a preamp and I will probably add a splitter/amp just after it enters the house. I'm about 70deg to the Akron stations too so I'm hoping it will pick up everything without having to rotate it. Its going on a 2 story house, but like I said, I've got the tall trees (15' taller than the house) just 50 or 60' away from the house to the Northwest. We'll see what happens..... And I know things will change too come spring. Oh well.



I hope it works for you but if it doesn't your pointing the finger at the wrong people. Cable is expensive, yes. But the real reason you don't get good reception is not only location it also has to do with all the other stuff that's going around in the airwaves these days. We have microwave transmissions, digital wireless phones, and more broadcasters then we did 40 years ago.


Now I didn't live here during the 1960's. I lived in Hawthorne, California. About 25 miles from downtown L.A. and probably a good 60 miles from the transmitter. We got good analog reception with just a roof antenna, or even rabbit ears.


In 1989 I moved back to Hawthorne. I couldn't get any channels OTA. PQ was horrible. I asked the cable guy why and he said what I mentioned above, except wireless phones they still wern't popular. Now we are in 2006 and how in the heck can OTA be expected to still get better?


So rather then hassle with it and because I want good pq for my HD. it's cable for me. And the bill.


----------



## akron05

 http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html 


Looks like tonight-tomorrow might be a good time to try some DX-ing. Also wondering if that'll give me enough push to pull in WFMJ.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html
> 
> 
> Looks like tonight-tomorrow might be a good time to try some DX-ing. Also wondering if that'll give me enough push to pull in WFMJ.



FWIW, I was picking up St Louis KMOX AM 1120 in the car loud and clear last night. Couldn't get any of the big AM stations out of Chicago though. Thought that was kind of strange.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cable HD just isn't as good as OTA either.



Depends on the cable provider. From what I can see Wide Open West is just as good as OTA here in Cleveland. And I'm *very* picky about my HD PQ


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FWIW, I was picking up St Louis KMOX AM 1120 in the car loud and clear last night. Couldn't get any of the big AM stations out of Chicago though. Thought that was kind of strange.



I tend to look at those tropo. forcasts every once in a while. It isn't unusual to hear KMOX pretty much every night because of the nature of AM radio bouncing off the ionosphere. Try 570 AM really late at night. If you're far out enough from WKBN 570, and your radio is perpendicular to the southern direction, then you may be able to hear Radio Reloj (Watch Radio) from Cuba. It's very faint, but you can often hear the ticking/beaping/Spanish speaking. It's not a 100% guarantee, but there's a good chance since I've heard it just about every night around 11pm.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tend to look at those tropo. forcasts every once in a while. It isn't unusual to hear KMOX pretty much every night because of the nature of AM radio bouncing off the ionosphere. Try 570 AM really late at night. If you're far out enough from WKBN 570, and your radio is perpendicular to the southern direction, then you may be able to hear Radio Reloj (Watch Radio) from Cuba. It's very faint, but you can often hear the ticking/beaping/Spanish speaking. It's not a 100% guarantee, but there's a good chance since I've heard it just about every night around 11pm.



I always get a good chuckle when I hear the blowhards at WTAM boasting about covering "38 states and half of Canada". When I drive to/from Chicago, I'm lucky if I pick up WTAM at the Indiana/Ohio state line. ~200 mile radius under normal conditions.


----------



## akron05

I have a portable 3.5" LCD TV. I noticed tonight that at least with it's built in whip antenna, tonight while I was down in Hartville I got better reception of 21 and 27 analog than 3 or 5 analog. However, Fox 8 comes in great and 33 analog is worthless.


In Hartville I also got WIVM Ch. 52 clear as a bell.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I always get a good chuckle when I hear the blowhards at WTAM boasting about covering "38 states and half of Canada". When I drive to/from Chicago, I'm lucky if I pick up WTAM at the Indiana/Ohio state line. ~200 mile radius under normal conditions.



At night, I have picked it up in Tennessee and Maryland.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I always get a good chuckle when I hear the blowhards at WTAM boasting about covering "38 states and half of Canada". When I drive to/from Chicago, I'm lucky if I pick up WTAM at the Indiana/Ohio state line. ~200 mile radius under normal conditions.



This is probably off topic, but I've heard the "blowhards" on WTAM saying "38 states and half of Canada". This is a bit of a stretch. I've been in Maine, North Carolina, Ontario, and Wisconsin, and I was able to receive WTAM very good. However, any further than this is out of WTAM's coverage. So from my experience, most 50kW nighttime AM stations can broadcast maybe a good 800 miles or more at night depending on the directionality of their antenna, but this is dependent upon a highly unreliable ionosphere in which the signal bounces off of. So you may not be able to get a signal at the Indiana/Ohio line but you may be able to get it in another area like Maine for example. It's dependent upon the conditions of the ionosphere.


The farthest AM stations I've encountered here in Akron were KOA 850-Denver, CBA 1070-Moncton NB, WOAI 1200-San Antonio, CMDC 570-Santa Clara Cuba, and more.


----------



## hookbill

FWIW in 1969 when I lived in Boston late at night I could pick up CKLW, Detroit. Never could get it in the daytime. Also an AM station.


Now down in Mexico XERB use to pump up to Los Angeles when I was a kid easily. I don't know where they were located but I'm sure that is the station that ZZ top refers to on the song "I Heard It On The X". And of course they were in Texas.


----------



## akron05

Anyone have an HDTV tuner card on their PC?


HELP!!! I have a Norwood Micro Digital/Analog PCI TV Tuner Card. I installed it, used my rotor w/antenna, got several stations I didn't even think I would. It was great.


Then, tonight, for no reason at all, it suddenly STOPPED being able to "read" the ATSC signals. Analogs still worked fine, so I don't think it was an antenna issue. But ALL digital stations said "no signal" no matter where the antenna was pointed (and yes, I went outside to make sure it was still on my roof and rotating as it is supposed to w/the rotator), even the station 7 miles away. NOTHING, ZILCH.


I uninstalled and reinstalled the ATSC program that came with the card, still, nothing.


What happened??? HELP!


I did delete my username's temp folder in C/Documents and Settings/My Name/Local Settings/Temp but I've done that before w/no issues. I did that before it quit but it may be a conincidence. Everything else works just fine.


This is my ONLY OTA HDTV option at the moment!!! (long story...)


HELP ME!


----------



## Inundated

I have the Fusion HDTV5USB external tuner. Its software had been flaky for a long time, but it's mostly working great.


I'm not sure there's anything I can do to help, tho. These cards all have different quirks and different software, and I haven't even HEARD of yours!


Go to the "Home Theatre Computers" board here on AVS and there's probably a thread for yours...


----------



## akron05

I know the antenna's fine, because I hooked it up to my 32" analog JVC and am DXing picking up WTVG and WTOL Toledo, WICU Erie, and for a brief moment, WTRF Wheeling.


So the antenna's fine.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is probably off topic, but I've heard the "blowhards" on WTAM saying "38 states and half of Canada". This is a bit of a stretch. I've been in Maine, North Carolina, Ontario, and Wisconsin, and I was able to receive WTAM very good. However, any further than this is out of WTAM's coverage. So from my experience, most 50kW nighttime AM stations can broadcast maybe a good 800 miles or more at night depending on the directionality of their antenna, but this is dependent upon a highly unreliable ionosphere in which the signal bounces off of. So you may not be able to get a signal at the Indiana/Ohio line but you may be able to get it in another area like Maine for example. It's dependent upon the conditions of the ionosphere.
> 
> 
> The farthest AM stations I've encountered here in Akron were KOA 850-Denver, CBA 1070-Moncton NB, WOAI 1200-San Antonio, CMDC 570-Santa Clara Cuba, and more.



Noticed we have a few hams here too!










This only occours during night time hours, A few Select frequencies are opened up at nightime hours for 50Kw Clear Channel Broadcasting, so picking up 3 WE (My Bad WTAM) in 38 States is not all that unrealistic. I've been able to pick up the old 3WE in the Tampa/Orlando area on a good night. Once upon a time our old 1220 was a bit of a powerhouse too, it was one of the only stations I was able to pick up driving up 77 one evening in the early '80's around the Statesville NC area.


Being deprived also during my childhood & teen years & only having a AM Clock radio , I had to set it to KXEL out of Waterloo IA , as it was one of the few reliable stations that came in just before Sunrise.


Know this is a bit off topic but read on if you wish, it was kind of fun to try to see just how many AM stations I could log.

Clear Channel AM radio 


Slightly back on topic from June through August at times here in the afternoons I'm able to recieve TV stations from Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Miami Houston, Dallas almost as clear as a local due to a similar ionispheric condition.. this seems to occour during very hot humid days. Look for this to occour from Channels 2 through 4 when the co-channel interference bars are present on channel 3.


Now of days anyone with the cash can pay $50-100 a month for a cable to hook up to a degraded TV tuner.. OTA is a Fun Challenge!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cable HD just isn't as good as OTA either.



I remember the "kids" from Mentor TV that delevered a set to my fathers place a few years back being impressed with the OTA picture... imagine the same with DTV too.


----------



## JJkizak

Akron05:

Try digitalconnection.com and take a look at the MY-HD 130 card. It does everything including 5.1. It is also pretty rock solid.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have an HDTV tuner card on their PC?
> 
> 
> This is my ONLY OTA HDTV option at the moment!!! (long story...)
> 
> 
> HELP ME!




This is why I say OTA is such a pia. Call TW, or D* or E* and get rid of these headaches once and for all.


And your wrong, PQ on cable is just as good as OTA. I think it's better because you don't have to run around for two hours while your show is on playing with the antenna.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is probably off topic, but I've heard the "blowhards" on WTAM saying "38 states and half of Canada". This is a bit of a stretch. I've been in Maine, North Carolina, Ontario, and Wisconsin, and I was able to receive WTAM very good. However, any further than this is out of WTAM's coverage. So from my experience, most 50kW nighttime AM stations can broadcast maybe a good 800 miles or more at night depending on the directionality of their antenna, but this is dependent upon a highly unreliable ionosphere in which the signal bounces off of. So you may not be able to get a signal at the Indiana/Ohio line but you may be able to get it in another area like Maine for example. It's dependent upon the conditions of the ionosphere.
> 
> 
> The farthest AM stations I've encountered here in Akron were KOA 850-Denver, CBA 1070-Moncton NB, WOAI 1200-San Antonio, CMDC 570-Santa Clara Cuba, and more.



Mike Trivisono said that "38 states and half of Canada" does not include closer in areas within Ohio (and I can also add you never hear 1100 in Detroit since one of their locals is on 1090). So the coverage looks like a big donut with the hole surrounding Cleveland. That explains why you barely get 1100 at the Ohio/Indianna border, while someone in South Carolina hears it just fine.


Back to the subject: What we need is for somebody to develop an ATSC tuner with the same sensitivity as the old Zenith "click tuners" of the 70's and 80's. Those puppies could pull in the moon if sombody had a signal transmitting from there. A TV DX'er's website shows his "tropo setup" with a seperate Zenith click tuner for every VHF lo band channel. I have DX'ed WBPT Miami and KPRC Houston on a 1974 Zenith console TV from Euclid in the mid 80's. Both were channel 2's which is the closest thing to having TV on short-wave.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is why I say OTA is such a pia. Call TW, or D* or E* and get rid of these headaches once and for all.
> 
> 
> And your wrong, PQ on cable is just as good as OTA. I think it's better because you don't have to run around for two hours while your show is on playing with the antenna.



Read on. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTENNA. My analog reception still works, as does the analog reception on the TV next to the PC.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Akron05:
> 
> Try digitalconnection.com and take a look at the MY-HD 130 card. It does everything including 5.1. It is also pretty rock solid.
> 
> 
> JJK



I JUST bought this card a week ago, I really didn't plan to buy another one!


----------



## thomas4d

I am new to HD so bear with me. I have a outdoor antenna with a wineguard preamp. I get channel 8 analog great but the hd will not come in. I have gotten it but it cuts right out. I get channel 3-1 the best allways clear. 5-1 next best. then 19-1 good but cuts out some. and 8-1 is a no go. I never received uhf signal very good in the past. I live in concord ohio about 30 miles east of cleveland. Any ideas or are the stations just not putting out a strong enough signal. Thanks Dave Thomas


----------



## akron05

You're probably too low in elevation, so the signals have to come through a hill. Not much you can do except put up a tower.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomas4d* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am new to HD so bear with me. I have a outdoor antenna with a wineguard preamp. I get channel 8 analog great but the hd will not come in. I have gotten it but it cuts right out. I get channel 3-1 the best allways clear. 5-1 next best. then 19-1 good but cuts out some. and 8-1 is a no go. I never received uhf signal very good in the past. I live in concord ohio about 30 miles east of cleveland. Any ideas or are the stations just not putting out a strong enough signal. Thanks Dave Thomas



Sounds like your antenna might be VHF only or at least the UHF portion isn't pulling in the signals right. Based on the order of how well you're pulling in the stations, it sounds like you're getting the lowest VHF frequencies the best.


Have you tried it without the preamp? Might not be the problem but sometimes amps only handle certain frequencies. Usually VHF digitals come in a little better than UHF, so maybe the amp is cutting it off completely for you. Just a thought.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mike Trivisono said that "38 states and half of Canada" does not include closer in areas within Ohio (and I can also add you never hear 1100 in Detroit since one of their locals is on 1090). So the coverage looks like a big donut with the hole surrounding Cleveland. That explains why you barely get 1100 at the Ohio/Indianna border, while someone in South Carolina hears it just fine.
> 
> 
> Back to the subject: What we need is for somebody to develop an ATSC tuner with the same sensitivity as the old Zenith "click tuners" of the 70's and 80's. Those puppies could pull in the moon if sombody had a signal transmitting from there. A TV DX'er's website shows his "tropo setup" with a seperate Zenith click tuner for every VHF lo band channel. I have DX'ed WBPT Miami and KPRC Houston on a 1974 Zenith console TV from Euclid in the mid 80's. Both were channel 2's which is the closest thing to having TV on short-wave.



AM and Shortwave frequencies are completely different in that the signals may bounce off the ionosphere. I'm not a ham, but I do find it interesting to find what I can hear. It's really fun during the times that TV and FM stations bouce off of the ionosphere. It's very rare to occur up here, but there was a time last year when I was on a cruise in the Bahamas and I could receive almost all of the normal powered FM stations from a certain area of Indianapolis Indiana and Illinois. The area of Florida seems to be of a convenient distance for good e-skip here in Ohio. I guess the distance is right for it. There have been a couple occasions when I could receive Orlando TV stations extremely well. I was also able to receive "The Twister 101.9" in Oklahoma City.


I wonder why the FCC hasn't allocated a band for a couple long distance broadcasting shortwave TV stations.


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the Fusion HDTV5USB external tuner. Its software had been flaky for a long time, but it's mostly working great.



Inundated,


I just purchased a Fusion RT 5 Gold for the new MEC (Media Entertainment Center) PC that I put together. I have it hooked up for QAM reception on cable from TW in Stark. As you know using the cable antenna option vs the OTA option limits you on recording software options. Are you recording shows with your Fusion card Manually or using some other software to capture shows?


I have looked for software but no luck finding anything yet.


Thanks for you input.


----------



## paule123

Thanks to Ken H who mentioned WOW in Detroit now has the locals in the clear, I did a QAM channel scan tonight here in Cleveland and I'm getting them all in the clear.


200 ABC

103-140 TUBE

103-204 UABDT

201 CBS

121-203 NBC

121-130 WeatherPlus

101-202 FOX

117-500 thru 117-546 Music Choice

399 PPVB (looks religious)


Note the QAM channels are flaky. I scanned 4 or 5 times and kept getting more channels coming up, and channel numbering changing with every pass. I'm using the OnAir USB GT tuner connected to a laptop.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you recording shows with your Fusion card Manually or using some other software to capture shows?
> 
> 
> I have looked for software but no luck finding anything yet.
> 
> 
> Thanks for you input.



I'm using the Fusion software, yes.


I'd tried WatchHDTV, which is a solution with less overhead, but as far as I know Al doesn't do QAM...in fact, I think the Fusion software that comes with it is the only software that supports the QAM capabilities.


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm using the Fusion software, yes.
> 
> 
> I'd tried WatchHDTV, which is a solution with less overhead, but as far as I know Al doesn't do QAM...in fact, I think the Fusion software that comes with it is the only software that supports the QAM capabilities.



Using the Fusion RT5 Gold with cable software installed on TW Stark decoding QAM Digital channels I get the following:


D800 NBC 1080i

D801 NBC WX 480i

D802 WUAB 720P

940 DISCOVER 480i

944 FIT TV 480i

947 BRAVO 480i

1003 FOOD 480i

1004 E 480i

D1040 ABC 720P

D1041 FOX 720P

1070 GSN 480i

D1080 WUAB 720P

D1081 THE TUBE 480i

D1082 CBS 1080i

D1083 CBS WX 480i


This list covers most of the digital channels.


For the ANALOG channels:


2 - 79, 96 & 99


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomas4d* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am new to HD so bear with me. I have a outdoor antenna with a wineguard preamp. I get channel 8 analog great but the hd will not come in. I have gotten it but it cuts right out. I get channel 3-1 the best allways clear. 5-1 next best. then 19-1 good but cuts out some. and 8-1 is a no go. I never received uhf signal very good in the past. I live in concord ohio about 30 miles east of cleveland. Any ideas or are the stations just not putting out a strong enough signal. Thanks Dave Thomas



Ah hah another Satisfied Lake County customer







(See guys, it's really tough out here)


I'm to the north of you, & am lower still, Concord has relatively good height, I wouldn't think a tower would be needed there.


I had always recieved a great signal on UHF with a less than perfect antenna until Contenintal Cablevision set up in the area in '82, I had boosted the antenna size added a rotor went from 300 ohm to RG59 & a rotor to bring what was lost back....


Perhaps cross interference from cable in the area, I was picking up faint images of Contenintal's time Temperature channel on Channel 7, although I had no cable!!


Several years later the signal again degraded I changed to RG6QS & added an amp.. much better, .. now it seems to be the same all over & nothing will improve signal.


----------



## Bismarck440

The set of the person I was setting up was exchanged last night, (much against my advice, I either though return it for good & try later or work on the antenna). Since we are in the discussion of weak & unsensitive tuners, anyone here have any opinons one way or another on the Insignia, Sanyo, or Westinghouse brands?


I'm looking for opinions of OTA, not cable & preferibly those in fringe areas.


One other question, from the area I'm setting up the signal seems to waver on breezy nights (ie earlier tonight Saturday)... from this location trying both the attic antenna (which is isolated from the wind) & the roof antenna (which is in the wind) seems to produce this same result. As we all know the signal can't be blown by the wind, what should be suspect here? There are trees in the direction several hundred feet away, that shouldn't be obstructing any path of the signal, trees to the backside of the antenna. This affects both Analog & digital signals.


I live about a mile away & my analog signal seems to be uneffected by wind, however, i've never tested a digital set from my location.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mike Trivisono said that "38 states and half of Canada" does not include closer in areas within Ohio (and I can also add you never hear 1100 in Detroit since one of their locals is on 1090). So the coverage looks like a big donut with the hole surrounding Cleveland. That explains why you barely get 1100 at the Ohio/Indianna border, while someone in South Carolina hears it just fine.



Actually the coverage at night should look like concentric donuts. So you won't hear WTAM in Cinci, but it'll be fine in Nashville. Then it will be weak in Atlanta or Birmingham, but strong in Jacksonville or New Orleans.


I happened to be visiting my sister in DC on the night years ago when Jimmy Carter sent in the helicopters to try to rescue the hostages in Iran. I was up late when the first bulletins hit, so I tuned to AM radio figuring I'd find some news coverage. I tuned across the band looking for the strongest station I could find. It turned out to be 1100 AM - came in stronger than any local Washington DC station.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This list covers most of the digital channels.



That bodes well for folks who got absorbed into TWC from Adelphia...it looks like they would continue to do open QAM here.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One other question, from the area I'm setting up the signal seems to waver on breezy nights (ie earlier tonight Saturday)... from this location trying both the attic antenna (which is isolated from the wind) & the roof antenna (which is in the wind) seems to produce this same result. As we all know the signal can't be blown by the wind, what should be suspect here? There are trees in the direction several hundred feet away, that shouldn't be obstructing any path of the signal, trees to the backside of the antenna. This affects both Analog & digital signals.
> 
> 
> I live about a mile away & my analog signal seems to be uneffected by wind, however, i've never tested a digital set from my location.



If it's affecting both the analog and digital signals, there might be a metal awning or other surface that's blowing in the wind and causing multipath reflections. DTV is much more susceptible to multipath than analog.


----------



## thomas4d

Without the amp i am not getting anything. Since i get 3-1 the best 82% 5-1 82% 8-1 flickers between 15% to 30%. 19-1 48%. I have a radio shack antenna. Before there were locals on sat. I used this antenna for analog. never received UHF well. I still get 8 in analog good. 8-1 digital must be sent over uhf. Anyway anyone know of a better antenna or can a better uhf antenna be added since my vhf is great with the preamp. Any good company around town that know there stuff with antennas. With all the hi-tech tv's somebody should be able to make a hi-tech antenna. Thanks Dave.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomas4d* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Without the amp i am not getting anything. Since i get 3-1 the best 82% 5-1 82% 8-1 flickers between 15% to 30%. 19-1 48%. I have a radio shack antenna. Before there were locals on sat. I used this antenna for analog. never received UHF well. I still get 8 in analog good. 8-1 digital must be sent over uhf. Anyway anyone know of a better antenna or can a better uhf antenna be added since my vhf is great with the preamp. Any good company around town that know there stuff with antennas. With all the hi-tech tv's somebody should be able to make a hi-tech antenna. Thanks Dave.



Several times earlier in the thread rlockshin has posted the name and number of a good antenna guy in the area: Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum. 440-237-6888. I personally have never used him, but several have.


As for channel assignments, the ones you are getting are mostly VHF or low UHF. The digital channel assignments are the number on the far right (these are the ones I get here in Medina, by the way):


- uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 31

- uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30

- uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 50

- uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 15

- uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 28

- uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 59

- vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 2

- uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 39

- uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 26

- uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 19

- uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 34


And in case you haven't checked it yet, a good source to find out the best antenna for what you need is antennaweb.org . It will give you antenna recommendations based on your specific street address.


----------



## paule123

Anybody know why WKYC isn't doing Browns Tonight (after the 11pm news) in HD? They've got an HD graphics package, but SD widescreen video on the guys sitting behind the desk. Aren't they in the same studio? Can't they just swing the HD camera from the news anchors over to the football guys?


BTW, looks like WKYC is making nice progress on the HD front. After the football game, they had a series of ads promoting the news in HD with a lot of local shots in HD.


----------



## hookbill

When we had all that snow a couple of weeks ago I tried watching WKYC in the morning and they were in stretch o vision because they were running school closings. I turned to WJW and they were still in HD including their graphics on the bottom (or at least the main part of the picture was in HD). It will be interesting to see how WKYC handles it now that they've done away with stretch o vision.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like your antenna might be VHF only or at least the UHF portion isn't pulling in the signals right. Based on the order of how well you're pulling in the stations, it sounds like you're getting the lowest VHF frequencies the best.
> 
> 
> Have you tried it without the preamp? Might not be the problem but sometimes amps only handle certain frequencies. Usually VHF digitals come in a little better than UHF, so maybe the amp is cutting it off completely for you. Just a thought.



Perhaps the amp is bad, had that happen too, clears up a bit after bypassing the amp.


Anyone use the Channelmaster Stealth yet?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Back to the subject: What we need is for somebody to develop an ATSC tuner with the same sensitivity as the old Zenith "click tuners" of the 70's and 80's. Those puppies could pull in the moon if sombody had a signal transmitting from there. A TV DX'er's website shows his "tropo setup" with a seperate Zenith click tuner for every VHF lo band channel. I have DX'ed WBPT Miami and KPRC Houston on a 1974 Zenith console TV from Euclid in the mid 80's. Both were channel 2's which is the closest thing to having TV on short-wave.



I Actually have a '84 Zenith, with Electronic tuning, & a '95 Sylvania Console I "inherated" (this set was a custom order.. not my choice, I would have prefered the monitor type), both have pulled in these gulf coast stations nicely during Tropospheric ducting.










One interesting DX was in June of '86 during a series of storms, I pulled in KRQU FM (102.5) out of Cheyene WY , & locked this at a full 5 bars for well over 6 Hours on my '81 Pioneer SX3700.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Several times earlier in the thread rlockshin has posted the name and number of a good antenna guy in the area: Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum. 440-237-6888. I personally have never used him, but several have.
> 
> 
> As for channel assignments, the ones you are getting are mostly VHF or low UHF. The digital channel assignments are the number on the far right (these are the ones I get here in Medina, by the way):
> 
> 
> - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 31
> 
> - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30
> 
> - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 50
> 
> - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 15
> 
> - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 28
> 
> - uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 59
> 
> - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 2
> 
> - uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 39
> 
> - uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 26
> 
> - uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 19
> 
> - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 34
> 
> 
> And in case you haven't checked it yet, a good source to find out the best antenna for what you need is antennaweb.org . It will give you antenna recommendations based on your specific street address.



Disregarding antennaweb, do you actually get WVIZ digital there? I don't think you can pick it up OTA any more than about 18 feet from the transmitter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Disregarding antennaweb, do you actually get WVIZ digital there? I don't think you can pick it up OTA any more than about 18 feet from the transmitter.



I get it real easy, through TW. No problem picking up a signal at all.
























Just yanking your chain, akron05....


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Disregarding antennaweb, do you actually get WVIZ digital there? I don't think you can pick it up OTA any more than about 18 feet from the transmitter.



Hookbill beat me to the punch, but I do get it very well in Medina.... through Armstrong cable. I switched from OTA and D* about 2 months ago. But no, I did not get it OTA.


----------



## akron05

Are the cable systems getting a direct feed from WVIZ or getting it at the headend?


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Several times earlier in the thread rlockshin has posted the name and number of a good antenna guy in the area: Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum. 440-237-6888. I personally have never used him, but several have.
> 
> 
> As for channel assignments, the ones you are getting are mostly VHF or low UHF. The digital channel assignments are the number on the far right (these are the ones I get here in Medina, by the way):
> 
> 
> - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 31
> 
> - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30
> 
> - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 50
> 
> - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 15
> 
> - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 28
> 
> - uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 59
> 
> - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 2
> 
> - uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 39
> 
> - uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 26
> 
> - uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 19
> 
> - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 34
> 
> 
> And in case you haven't checked it yet, a good source to find out the best antenna for what you need is antennaweb.org . It will give you antenna recommendations based on your specific street address.





Is - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30 on the air yet?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is why I say OTA is such a pia. Call TW, or D* or E* and get rid of these headaches once and for all.
> 
> 
> And your wrong, PQ on cable is just as good as OTA. I think it's better because you don't have to run around for two hours while your show is on playing with the antenna.



I put up a large antenna in my attic, and it did take some tweaking, but it works without problems now (no more running around) and there are several advantages.


The biggest advantage is that you can pick up channels that Cable etc. consider out of market. I can get several different games from surrounding cities, or when one is pre-emted or has someone asleep at the switch in Cleveland...you have another city's channel to try, like Youngstown. Some people even pick up PA.


While there are cases where Cable is better than OTA, there are cases of the opposite...and certainly OTA can beat DirecTV's high compression.


Another advantage is you can tune the HD OTA with any tuner in the house. My HD Tivo can record in HD OTA at the same time I watch a different HD channel OTA. Otherwise, you need a Cable/DiecTV tuner everywhere you want a different HD channel.


And the other advantage is that (other than the cost of the antenna) it's free. In the future, more local stations will have more content OTA and hopefully more bandwidth. I don't know if Cable/DirecTV/Dish plans to keep up with the new stations (i.e. I have 3 weather stations, Tube, 3 PBS). For the $ some providers charge for local channels it's worth getting a decent antenna and hooking it up the best you can...IMO anyway.


----------



## Bismarck440

Does nothing more than Rabbit Ears in northern Lake county, & this was at attic level. May work great in Parma though... Going back.


One thing it did improve was channel 25, but not worth the money, Channel 8 was even worse.


Cool Compact Design though.










Antennaweb? since this is at street level, is elevation considered?


----------



## Bismarck440

Likely the DTV is going back, I don't think the bugs are worked out of these, poor transmission, or these tuners are purely designed strictly for the Cable viewer.... can't put my finger on it yet.


I Do want to test this set at my place before it goes back, my roof antennas performance seems to be a bit better than where I'm setting this up at.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are the cable systems getting a direct feed from WVIZ or getting it at the headend?



I think Inundated said it was OTA, believe it or not.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think Inundated said it was OTA, believe it or not.



Trust me: If it takes extra effort for me to aim an antenna precisely out a window that's nowhere close to my TV in order to get WVIZ-DT from my house 3.7 miles from their 99' 1kw transmitter, it's not reaching Medina!


The only thing possible for WVIZ in Medina is the ANALOG WVIZ. Strongarm (got that name from a co-worker who has their cable service) may be digitizing the analog signal.


How to tell: For now WVIZ's digital service consists of the following 3 services (via rf ch 26) 25.1 = PBS HD (which as a totally different schedule than what is broadcast over the analog ch 25)., 25.2 = The Ohio Channel (or as I like to call it "CSPAN Columbus"), and 25.3 = "CRRS" (audio only) reading service for the blind.


If the "digital WVIZ" yiou are getting on the Medina cable has the exact same program that is lilsted inthe TV guide they are giving you a digitized version of the analog signal.


OTOH: WEAO's digital service consists of the following: 49.1 "Create", 49.2 the same program as the main analog channel, 49.3 (part time - signs off during prime time in anticipation of ther going back to HD) It used to be The Ohio Channel but I can't put my finger on what it is now (mainly because I have not taken the time to aim an antenna in their direction lately).


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OTOH: WEAO's digital service consists of the following: 49.1 "Create", 49.2 the same program as the main analog channel, 49.3 (part time - signs off during prime time in anticipation of ther going back to HD) It used to be The Ohio Channel but I can't put my finger on what it is now (mainly because I have not taken the time to aim an antenna in their direction lately).



It's still The Ohio Channel - and as far as I can see, it is still on during prime time. I think during prime time hours, they usually show Ohio history/tourism programming instead of Statehouse proceedings.


As far as PBS 45&49 going back to HD programming, I would say don't hold your breath for the near future. I recently received their end-of-the-year begging letter, and one of the things stated is that they are struggling to meet their budget due to the unexpected added expense of running the analog transmitter past the original analog shutoff date. They have it especially bad, operating transmitters on channels 45, 46, 49 and 50 (higher frequency generally equals higher power bill).


I have pretty much given up on seeing HD out of them until maybe after analog shutoff.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Trust me: If it takes extra effort for me to aim an antenna precisely out a window that's nowhere close to my TV in order to get WVIZ-DT from my house 3.7 miles from their 99' 1kw transmitter, it's not reaching Medina!
> 
> 
> The only thing possible for WVIZ in Medina is the ANALOG WVIZ. Strongarm (got that name from a co-worker who has their cable service) may be digitizing the analog signal.
> 
> 
> How to tell: For now WVIZ's digital service consists of the following 3 services (via rf ch 26) 25.1 = PBS HD (which as a totally different schedule than what is broadcast over the analog ch 25)., 25.2 = The Ohio Channel (or as I like to call it "CSPAN Columbus"), and 25.3 = "CRRS" (audio only) reading service for the blind.
> 
> 
> If the "digital WVIZ" yiou are getting on the Medina cable has the exact same program that is lilsted inthe TV guide they are giving you a digitized version of the analog signal.
> 
> 
> OTOH: WEAO's digital service consists of the following: 49.1 "Create", 49.2 the same program as the main analog channel, 49.3 (part time - signs off during prime time in anticipation of ther going back to HD) It used to be The Ohio Channel but I can't put my finger on what it is now (mainly because I have not taken the time to aim an antenna in their direction lately).



Does this mean that WVIZ-DT doesn't broadcast the channel that is seen on their analog station?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think Inundated said it was OTA, believe it or not.



It's OTA for now. A direct feed is being worked on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does this mean that WVIZ-DT doesn't broadcast the channel that is seen on their analog station?



Correct. The programming is different.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Trust me: If it takes extra effort for me to aim an antenna precisely out a window that's nowhere close to my TV in order to get WVIZ-DT from my house 3.7 miles from their 99' 1kw transmitter, it's not reaching Medina!
> 
> 
> The only thing possible for WVIZ in Medina is the ANALOG WVIZ. Strongarm (got that name from a co-worker who has their cable service) may be digitizing the analog signal.
> 
> 
> How to tell: For now WVIZ's digital service consists of the following 3 services (via rf ch 26) 25.1 = PBS HD (which as a totally different schedule than what is broadcast over the analog ch 25)., 25.2 = The Ohio Channel (or as I like to call it "CSPAN Columbus"), and 25.3 = "CRRS" (audio only) reading service for the blind.
> 
> 
> If the "digital WVIZ" yiou are getting on the Medina cable has the exact same program that is lilsted inthe TV guide they are giving you a digitized version of the analog signal.



Armstrong Cable here in Orrville is most definitely the PBS HD feed from rf ch 26. I'm not sure where the signal comes from, but it is definitely not the same channel as the analog ch 25. We are about 38 miles from the towers down here in Wayne County. Perhaps they are getting the signal fed from Armstrong in Medina.


----------



## Inundated

As credited to me above, and repeated by Cathode Kid, yes, I was told by WVIZ's engineer that now-TWC/Cleveland is picking up WVIZ-DT OTA.


The signal is absolutely awful, but I hear cable companies have these tall antennas and all







Parma to Lakeside Avenue is not a stretch even on a tiny STA if you've got tall antennas.


WVIZ-DT does not, last I heard, run an SD simulcast of their OTA signal. WEAO-DT(/WNEO-DT) always has, even when they ran PBS HD 24/7.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, and as far as I know, WBNX-DT is not even close to being live yet. I have no idea what happened to the plans to put up a cable feed by the end of October or whenever they said it would go up, but the OTA signal wasn't ETA until spring 2007 at last check.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Armstrong Cable here in Orrville is most definitely the PBS HD feed from rf ch 26. I'm not sure where the signal comes from, but it is definitely not the same channel as the analog ch 25. We are about 38 miles from the towers down here in Wayne County. Perhaps they are getting the signal fed from Armstrong in Medina.



Makes sense to me. With those aforementioned Tall Cable Headend Antennas, they can probably pick up even the WVIZ-DT STA from Medina, and probably feed Orrville out of there...


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firemantom26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30 on the air yet?



Nope, I dunno why Antennaweb and others show it as live.


----------



## Andrew K

I have two ATSC tuners. One is built into my Philips 26" HDTV, and the other is an HDV 420. Up until now, I hadn't tested them to see which worked better, so I hooked the same antenna to both by using a splitter. The HDV 420 performed slightly, but noticeably better. WOAC is somewhat of a touchy signal for me to get, and the Zenith HDV 420 was able to pull in a solid picture with no drop-outs at the same time that the Philips couldn't get any picture. The tuner that is built into my Philips TV has always had a hard time with WOIO-DT, but the HDV 420 picks it up with almost no effort needed.


Changing topic completely, I was wondering if anyone else is annoyed that there is way too much news on. What ever happened to the days when there was only a 6pm newscast on the main channels, 3, 5, and 8? Now there's news on at 4pm, 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, 10pm, and 11pm, and most of the content is fluffed up to waste time. Isn't there enough TV shows for the channels to air? And a large chunk of the TV shows that are aired are the typical garbage court shows and "who's the father" talk shows.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's still The Ohio Channel - and as far as I can see, it is still on during prime time. I think during prime time hours, they usually show Ohio history/tourism programming instead of Statehouse proceedings.
> 
> 
> As far as PBS 45&49 going back to HD programming, I would say don't hold your breath for the near future. I recently received their end-of-the-year begging letter, and one of the things stated is that they are struggling to meet their budget due to the unexpected added expense of running the analog transmitter past the original analog shutoff date. They have it especially bad, operating transmitters on channels 45, 46, 49 and 50 (higher frequency generally equals higher power bill).
> 
> 
> I have pretty much given up on seeing HD out of them until maybe after analog shutoff.



I posted this based on EPG guide data that is loaded on my E* 921 for off air-channel 49.3. Ironically it does only says "local programming" for all hours of 49.1 and 49.2. It says that 49.3 is "off air" during prime time hours. It comes back on at midnight with several episodes of "Tavis Smally" (i'm not in front of my screen so forgive me if I misspell the name). For WVIZ-DT I only get guide data for 25.2, the Ohio Channel. I compaired the guide data of 25.2 and 49.3 - they are different so I presume that 49.3 was different. When I went through the troubles to aim my Silver Sensor out different parts of my home these two channels were the same Ohio Channel, but that was before I started getting guide data.


----------



## cemkf3

I get my guide data from labs.zap2it (using mythtv) and the data for 49.3 is always wrong. It has a lot of the kids shows that are on the analog feed in the guide but when I tune to them they are the CSPAN type coverage from Columbus that seems to be the Ohio channel. I can't get WVIZ DT from Hartville and only have an ATSC tuner so I can't compare the two.


----------



## akron05

Some moderate tropo ducting tonight. All analog.


Getting WKBN analog 27 as clear as I get 19 WOIO. 21 analog not far behind, and I'm getting 33 WYTV analog watchable, which almost never happens. Also getting a watchable WTOV 9, WTVG 13 (Toledo) WICU 12 Erie, and WTOL 11 (Toledo.) Got a faint picture from WNWO Ch. 24 in Toledo, faint WTRF 7 Wheeling, and for some really odd reason, on Channel 9 with my antenna 90 degrees off from WTOV, I was getting WONE 97.5 AUDIO in Akron, which makes NO sense since the frequencies are quite far apart.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some moderate tropo ducting tonight. All analog.
> 
> 
> Getting WKBN analog 27 as clear as I get 19 WOIO. 21 analog not far behind, and I'm getting 33 WYTV analog watchable, which almost never happens. Also getting a watchable WTOV 9, WTVG 13 (Toledo) WICU 12 Erie, and WTOL 11 (Toledo.) Got a faint picture from WNWO Ch. 24 in Toledo, faint WTRF 7 Wheeling, and for some really odd reason, on Channel 9 with my antenna 90 degrees off from WTOV, I was getting WONE 97.5 AUDIO in Akron, which makes NO sense since the frequencies are quite far apart.



Winging from memory, I thought the FM fell between Channel 6 & 7 , I used to pick up neighbors cordless phone audio on Channel 7.

_Edit, When I moved back from out west, I had to remove my FM amp in the car, I was recieving 92.3 all over the spectrum on trips down I-271, are you using an amp?_

Forgot what they called it already,







but we could pick up reflections of the 800 Mhz Cell bands in the upper 400Mhz range.


Pretty good area you are in, I'm doing some tests with Rabbit Ears & an attic antenna for the bedroom sets, I cannot get any sgnal for 3 & 5 (analog) they are unwatchable. With some cheap amplified rabit ears almost a watchable signal on 23 Akron, strange terrain I live in.


I guess when DTV is finalized, I will no longer be able to watch TV in my upstairs.


----------



## Bismarck440

before Going back to the Store, I borrowed the Insignia 27" DTV & tested it along side my '95 Sylvania Console... much to my surprise, the UHF analog tuner was actually better than in the old Sylvania! Tough I really don't know about the VHF portion, the ATSC Tuner seemed to work great on my outdoor, though still no Youngstown, Akron or Canton, which Antennaweb seems to think I can recieve.


I also found eliminating my High Pass inline filter, provided a lot better UHF Picture on the weaker Stations, 65 & 32.


Anyone have any information on where the transmitter is for the Kirtland Channel 51? Says it's 15.3 miles from me (which I find hard to believe, that transmitter must be elsewhere) & 22 miles from Parma, yet according to AntennaWeb I need a large boom to recieve, where Parma only needs a small omni.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> before Going back to the Store, I borrowed the Insignia 27" DTV & tested it along side my '95 Sylvania Console... much to my surprise, the UHF analog tuner was actually better than in the old Sylvania! Tough I really don't know about the VHF portion, the ATSC Tuner seemed to work great on my outdoor, though still no Youngstown, Akron or Canton, which Antennaweb seems to think I can recieve.
> 
> 
> I also found eliminating my High Pass inline filter, provided a lot better UHF Picture on the weaker Stations, 65 & 32.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any information on where the transmitter is for the Kirtland Channel 51? Says it's 15.3 miles from me (which I find hard to believe, that transmitter must be elsewhere) & 22 miles from Parma, yet according to AntennaWeb I need a large boom to recieve, where Parma only needs a small omni.



I get 51 better than 17 analog (51 is a retransmitter of WDLI 17) in the sense that while 51 has more snow, it has no ghosting, and 17 ghosts horribly.


Your area must suck for one reason or the other!! Are you right along the lake?


----------



## akron05

This morning, was getting near-local quality on WTOV and WTRF analog out of Wheeling/Steubenville. All three Youngstown stations nearly as clear as the Cleveland locals. Getting some audio and faint video from Ch. 11, 13, and 24 in Toledo, and WCMH Ch. 4 in Columbus.


----------



## Michael P 2341

From Parma I get 51 analog better than 35 - and I'm right next to the tower that carries all the LPTV's. 51's coverage area according to the map on the FCC site should not even reach anywhere near here, yet it's very watchable. So you say you are getting 51 in Akron!










There may be something for that location, that signal really reaches much better than any other repeater/Lp station.


Here is the coverage map for W51BI:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=TX203193.html 


Even though the city of license is "Kirtland" from the map it appears that the transmitter is in Geauga County, perhaps in Newbury.


BTW: WDLI has an app to move ch 17 to Akron (where their digital 39 currently resides) with a 1,000 kw and higher tower. Why would they bother improving their analog service when it's going away in a little over a year form now?


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cemkf3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get my guide data from labs.zap2it (using mythtv) and the data for 49.3 is always wrong. It has a lot of the kids shows that are on the analog feed in the guide but when I tune to them they are the CSPAN type coverage from Columbus that seems to be the Ohio channel. I can't get WVIZ DT from Hartville and only have an ATSC tuner so I can't compare the two.




I am also in Hartville. I just purchased a Fusion RT 5 Gold tuner. I have used it in the ATSC configuration with an out door antenna and connected to TW cable in Stark using QAM.


Have you looked at TitianTV for you schedule?


I have Snapstream BeyondTV and Beyond Media. BeyondTV does not support QAM reception. If I use the Fusion card in cable TV mode (Fusion card uses software drivers that must be loaded either for OTA antenna or cable) I can not use BeyondTV to get a schedule or tune the channels. I must use Fusion's channel changing functions and their limited scheduling function.



Have you looked at MYHD, Record_This or MediaPortal?


Always interested to see how someone else has their PC configured.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From Parma I get 51 analog better than 35 - and I'm right next to the tower that carries all the LPTV's. 51's coverage area according to the map on the FCC site should not even reach anywhere near here, yet it's very watchable. So you say you are getting 51 in Akron!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There may be something for that location, that signal really reaches much better than any other repeater/Lp station.
> 
> 
> Here is the coverage map for W51BI:
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=TX203193.html
> 
> 
> Even though the city of license is "Kirtland" from the map it appears that the transmitter is in Geauga County, perhaps in Newbury.
> 
> 
> BTW: WDLI has an app to move ch 17 to Akron (where their digital 39 currently resides) with a 1,000 kw and higher tower. Why would they bother improving their analog service when it's going away in a little over a year form now?



I've always gotten a snowy, but watchable picture from Ch. 51.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> BTW: WDLI has an app to move ch 17 to Akron (where their digital 39 currently resides) with a 1,000 kw and higher tower. Why would they bother improving their analog service when it's going away in a little over a year form now?



TBN affiliates have always seemed to be very pecuiliar for things like that.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> before Going back to the Store, I borrowed the Insignia 27" DTV & tested it along side my '95 Sylvania Console... much to my surprise, the UHF analog tuner was actually better than in the old Sylvania! Tough I really don't know about the VHF portion, the ATSC Tuner seemed to work great on my outdoor, though still no Youngstown, Akron or Canton, which Antennaweb seems to think I can recieve.
> 
> 
> I also found eliminating my High Pass inline filter, provided a lot better UHF Picture on the weaker Stations, 65 & 32.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any information on where the transmitter is for the Kirtland Channel 51? Says it's 15.3 miles from me (which I find hard to believe, that transmitter must be elsewhere) & 22 miles from Parma, yet according to AntennaWeb I need a large boom to recieve, where Parma only needs a small omni.



Where exactly is your location? I don't think that antennaweb is a good source. I don't know how many people on here are aware of the FCC's records, but I always go to the FCC records and check the transmitter and broadcast coverage for myself. If you go to the following website and enter the call letters of the station at the end of the web address, it will give you the transmitter information.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WKYC - This would be the TV query for WKYC. Make sure that you're looking at licensed stations and not constuction permits or applications, which aren't on-the-air yet.


Here is a list of all local Cleveland DMA stations... http://radiostationworld.com/locatio...tion.asp?m=cle 


Now if you click on the "service countour map (XX dBu)", it will give you the FCC's estimated coverage for the station that your doing a query on. Beware, the FCC's digital coverage is slightly overestimated, but it's nearly accurate. For example, here is the coverage for WFMJ-21's analog signal... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=TV494417.html . If you're in Lake county, you're going to have trouble receiving it, especially if you're at a low elevation. Sometimes you may be in the FCC coverage, but you're terrain could stop you from receiving the signal.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now if you click on the "service countour map (XX dBu)", it will give you the FCC's estimated coverage for the station that your doing a query on. Beware, the FCC's digital coverage is slightly overestimated, but it's nearly accurate. For example, here is the coverage for WFMJ-21's analog signal... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=TV494417.html .



I'd agree they're usually overestimated, but in some cases, I think they're UNDERestimated, like Ch. 51, the Kirtland repeater for WDLI which I get better than WDLI sometimes.


I'm well inside WKBN-DT's contour, and get it fairly well. WFMJ says I should be inside it in SE Akron, but I can't lock. I can GET a signal, but not lock.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> and for some really odd reason, on Channel 9 with my antenna 90 degrees off from WTOV, I was getting WONE 97.5 AUDIO in Akron, which makes NO sense since the frequencies are quite far apart.



channel 9 is 187.26 (visual) 191.76 (aural)

2nd harmonic of 97.5 would be 195 Mhz...

I have to use an FM trap before my preamp in order

to decode WOIO-DT on channel 10 (192-198 MHz 192.31 Mhz pilot)...

Ed...


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd agree they're usually overestimated, but in some cases, I think they're UNDERestimated, like Ch. 51, the Kirtland repeater for WDLI which I get better than WDLI sometimes.
> 
> 
> I'm well inside WKBN-DT's contour, and get it fairly well. WFMJ says I should be inside it in SE Akron, but I can't lock. I can GET a signal, but not lock.



They're *DIGITAL* contour maps seem overestimated. I'm sure that the average Joe Blow wouldn't be able to get WKBN-DT with his indoor antenna that he uses to get WKBN analog in Akron.


Akron05, this is what I heard about your efforts to get WKBN-DT: "After HOURS of messing with the antenna rotator, I found a half-inch wide swath where I can lock WKBN. Signal strength is low, but I've been watching for about an hour and have had no dropouts."


I can't get nearly a workable signal, because the meter is way below that threshold, and I'm using the best indoor antenna I can with an amplifier. According to the FCC's estimate, I'm probably a good 20 miles inside WKBN-DT's coverage, and I get nothing.


However, the FCC's analog estimates seem accurate. I've noticed that there are areas of Akron that can get W51BI very well, but this isn't the majority as I don't get any picture from 51 at all. That is why the FCC doesn't include Akron in the coverage of W51BI.


Now looking at the estimated coverage of WFMJ analog, it seems accurate. Sure I've been in areas of Medina county where I could get WFMJ good, even though it's way outside the FCC coverage, but I've been in areas of Akron that have had worse reception that were inside the estimated coverage.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> channel 9 is 187.26 (visual) 191.76 (aural)
> 
> 2nd harmonic of 97.5 would be 195 Mhz...
> 
> I have to use an FM trap before my preamp in order
> 
> to decode WOIO-DT on channel 10 (192-198 MHz 192.31 Mhz pilot)...
> 
> Ed...



I forgot about that FM trap on my amplifier. I flipped the switch from "out" to "in" to see if it would do anything for my reception of WOIO-DT, and my TV's tuner went from no picture to a solid picture with no drop-outs.


----------



## akron05

I did some screen captures from my TV card. The HD pics are from last week when it still worked. Analogs are from today, the analog still works although I get zip, nada, zilch on the ATSC portion. The analogs are typical days like tonight. Last night the reception was clearer.


WJW HD - http://i16.tinypic.com/2j5lyew.jpg 

WFMJ analog - http://i12.tinypic.com/2rwxi07.jpg 

WYTV analog - this is about as good as it normally gets - http://i10.tinypic.com/2u9mvdw.jpg 

WKBN analog - http://i10.tinypic.com/2h699ag.jpg


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get 51 better than 17 analog (51 is a retransmitter of WDLI 17) in the sense that while 51 has more snow, it has no ghosting, and 17 ghosts horribly.
> 
> 
> Your area must suck for one reason or the other!! Are you right along the lake?



Akron05, not right along the lake, about a couple miles inland as the crow flys, though I'm below that ridge it don't really get any lower except the stepoff at the lake itself. Yes it does suck, would think I could pick up London easily too, but no.


You're all getting a LP from Kirtland, from Parma Akron? where I'm about 3 miles from Kirtland (which I highly doubt that's where the transmitter is, I suspect somewhere in Mayfield) & can only at times pick up a faint analog signal from this?


Strange


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where exactly is your location? I don't think that antennaweb is a good source. I don't know how many people on here are aware of the FCC's records, but I always go to the FCC records and check the transmitter and broadcast coverage for myself. If you go to the following website and enter the call letters of the station at the end of the web address, it will give you the transmitter information.



I'm North below the ridge in central Mentor, just North of Rt 2 (my concern when the state installs the noise barriers just how that may affect the reception, everyone around me has cable so it won't draw complaints elsewhere). I've also been looking at the FCC Records, find them a bit over optimistic. There is a really wide variance on Antenna web, I've been quering addresses on streets less than a half mile from me & come up with completely different results.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is a list of all local Cleveland DMA stations... http://radiostationworld.com/locatio...tion.asp?m=cle
> 
> .




Interesting, 51 Kirtland is transmitting from Novelty or Newberry, half of Kirtland is not even in it's coverage area!










Note, WXOX Ch 65's actually listed as Ch 44 on the FCC Database?? I thought that was an application to change? no Ch 65 is listed.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm below North below the ridge in central Mentor, just North of Rt 2 (my concern when the state installs the noise barriers just how that may affect the reception, evgeryone around me has cable so it won't draw complaints elsewhere). I've also been looking at the FCC Records, find them a bit over optimistic. There is a really wide variance on Antenna web, I've been quering addresses on streets less than a half mile from me & come up with completely different results.



Antennaweb takes terrain into account. The FCC maps do not.


For me, antennaweb says:


* yellow - uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 297° 6.9 39

* yellow - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 304° 9.5 50

* yellow - uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 304° 6.6 59

* yellow - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 342° 27.6 30

* green - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 339° 26.8 31

* green - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 340° 27.5 15

red - uhf WUAB 43 MNT LORAIN OH 340° 27.9 43

* red - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 340° 27.9 28

red - uhf WQHS 61 UNI Cleveland OH 342° 27.7 61

* red - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 342° 27.7 34

red - uhf WOAC 67 SAH CANTON OH 57° 9.1 67

* red - uhf WOAC-DT 47.1 SAH CANTON OH 57° 9.1 47

red - uhf WVIZ 25 PBS CLEVELAND OH 335° 26.2 25

red - uhf WVPX 23 i AKRON OH 303° 6.6 23

red - uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 343° 27.8 19

* red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 343° 27.8 10

red - uhf WEAO 49 PBS AKRON OH 304° 9.5 49

red - uhf WDLI 17 TBN CANTON OH 147° 15.5 17

red - uhf WNEO 45 PBS ALLIANCE OH 113° 30.1 45

red - uhf W35AX 35 A1 CLEVELAND OH 342° 27.6 35

red - vhf WJW 8 FOX CLEVELAND OH 339° 26.8 8

red - uhf WAOH-LP 29 A1 AKRON OH 53° 8.3 29

red - vhf WEWS 5 ABC CLEVELAND OH 340° 27.5 5

red - vhf WKYC 3 NBC CLEVELAND OH 343° 27.6 3

* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 343° 27.6 2

red - uhf WBNX 55 CW AKRON OH 342° 27.6 55

blue - uhf WCDN-LP 53 DAY CLEVELAND OH 342° 27.6 53

blue - uhf W51BI 51 TBN KIRTLAND OH 24° 31.8 51

blue - uhf WKBN 27 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 94° 42.9 27

* blue - uhf WKBN-DT 27.1 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 94° 42.9 41

violet - uhf WYTV 33 ABC YOUNGSTOWN OH 94° 43.5 33

* violet - uhf WFMJ-DT 21.1 NBC YOUNGSTOWN OH 92° 43.3 20

* violet - uhf WNEO-DT 46.1 PBS ALLIANCE OH 113° 30.2 46

violet - vhf KDKA 2 CBS PITTSBURGH PA 123° 84.1 2


Starting from the top:


I get WDLI and WEAO analog and digital no issues. WVPX-DT isn't even up yet, neither is WBNX, so antennaweb is wrong there. Everything down to WCDN 53 I can get no problem. I've NEVER gotten WCDN, no hope at all. W51B1 I get fine, but snowy, WKBN analog, decent, a little snow, digital, just fine if the antenna is perfect. WYTV analog is unwatchable. WMFJ analog is snowy but watchable, never can lock WFMJ digital but I can "see" the signal. Cannot get WNEO digital, but I think their power is diminished IIRC.


KDKA? Pu-leeze! No frickin' way. Not even during tropo events. I can get other Pittsburgh stations though, I think WKYC digital 2 interferes with getting KDKA.


Antennaweb overestimates for me. However, I CAN get WXOX 65 (low-power Home Shopping Network) with a snowy but watchable signal, and antennaweb doesn't even show that one.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They're *DIGITAL* contour maps seem overestimated. I'm sure that the average Joe Blow wouldn't be able to get WKBN-DT with his indoor antenna that he uses to get WKBN analog in Akron. .



Been playing around with a 25 DB amplified indoor, for my upstairs sets, I may scrap the attic idea, however no 3 or 5 analog , 23 comes in better than those.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Akron05, not right along the lake, about a couple miles inland as the crow flys, though I'm below that ridge it don't really get any lower except the stepoff at the lake itself. Yes it does suck, would think I could pick up London easily too, but no.
> 
> 
> You're all getting a LP from Kirtland, from Parma Akron? where I'm about 3 miles from Kirtland (which I highly doubt that's where the transmitter is, I suspect somewhere in Mayfield) & can only at times pick up a faint analog signal from this?
> 
> 
> Strange



You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.


I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.
> 
> 
> I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.



From Willowick?? Wow. That's about 110 miles.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.
> 
> 
> I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.



The lake really helps. I was driving on I-90 just south of Buffalo, New York, and I could pick up almost every local Detroit radio station very well. That's around 200 miles. This doesn't occur 100% of the time, but it does happen frequently.


----------



## Andrew K

Is there anyone who knows why the FCC has lower dBu requirements for digital compared to analog? Are digital receivers designed to pick up signals with a lower dBu?


Here are the analog requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...

Channels 2 through 6: 47 dBu 68 dBu 74 dBu

Channels 7 through 13: 56 dBu 71 dBu 77 dBu

Channels 14 through 69: 64 dBu 74 dBu 80 dBu


Here are the digital requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...

Channels 2 through 6 28 dBu 28 dBu 35 dBu

Channels 7 through 13 36 dBu 36 dBu 43 dBu

Channels 14 through 69 41 dBu 41 dBu 48 dBu


----------



## HDTD

Does Time Warner QAM to viewers in Brunswick? Wondering if I can get an HDTV with no need for a cable box for HD?


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there anyone who knows why the FCC has lower dBu requirements for digital compared to analog? Are digital receivers designed to pick up signals with a lower dBu?
> 
> 
> Here are the analog requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...
> 
> Channels 2 through 6: 47 dBu 68 dBu 74 dBu
> 
> Channels 7 through 13: 56 dBu 71 dBu 77 dBu
> 
> Channels 14 through 69: 64 dBu 74 dBu 80 dBu
> 
> 
> Here are the digital requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...
> 
> Channels 2 through 6 28 dBu 28 dBu 35 dBu
> 
> Channels 7 through 13 36 dBu 36 dBu 43 dBu
> 
> Channels 14 through 69 41 dBu 41 dBu 48 dBu



Digital can have same coverage as analog at lower power. However, it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison either, IIRC.


I did get an interesting explaination of digital vs. analog the other day, as to why digital is "get it or don't" where analog is "fade out to snow."


Analog is like a picture. The farther away from your face it is, you can still see it, but after a while, the details get blurred. Digital is like a book. A half-inch from your eye it's distorted and can't be read (too much signal is the analogy.) Four inches away it's readable. 24 inches away it's also readable. As it gets farther, suddenly, it reaches a point where you just can't read it anymore. Either you can read it, or you can't. So whether digital signal strength is 100 or 85%, it works 100% on your screen.


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> I am also in Hartville. I just purchased a Fusion RT 5 Gold tuner. I have used it in the ATSC configuration with an out door antenna and connected to TW cable in Stark using QAM.
> 
> 
> Have you looked at TitianTV for you schedule?
> 
> 
> I have Snapstream BeyondTV and Beyond Media. BeyondTV does not support QAM reception. If I use the Fusion card in cable TV mode (Fusion card uses software drivers that must be loaded either for OTA antenna or cable) I can not use BeyondTV to get a schedule or tune the channels. I must use Fusion's channel changing functions and their limited scheduling function.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you looked at MYHD, Record_This or MediaPortal?
> 
> 
> Always interested to see how someone else has their PC configured.



I looked at TitianTV's listings and they did not even have data for 49.3, so that won't help me much.


As for my setup, I have a PC dedicated to TV.

3Ghz processor

1GB RAM

NVidia 6800 graphics card with DVI out to a 19" widescreen (16:10) monitor.

1 Air2PC ATSC only capture card

160GB Hard Drive for recordings

My sound card supports 5.1 audio but I haven't hooked it up yet.


For software I run MythTV .20 on Ubuntu Linux. The Air2PC is a DVB card and it is supported by the linux kernal so there was nothing to configure to get the tuner working.


MYHD, Record_This and MediaPortal are probably not going to be working for me since I am running Linux instead of Windows although the MYHD card does have Linux drivers in development. I believe that I could get the QAM reception over cable if I had it but I am only receiving OTA channels currently. I have a rooftop antenna oriented at about 330 deg and get 3,5,8,17,19,27,43,49,61,67


While there are a lot of things that I could improve on the system (160GB is just not enough for recording HD for example) I am pretty happy with it and use it as the only source of TV viewing in the house.


What kind of a setup do you have? Is your PC your primary source or is it more of a hobby? Do you have good results with OTA? If so what antenna placement has worked best for you?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.
> 
> 
> I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.



Occasionally can get Toledo 11 & 13 here, but right especially on the Y-Town is zilch,... not even a faint signal here.


They really needed repeaters perhaps in Chardon to cover the holes here, but I think if they relocated the transmitters to Richfield, I could kiss all the Cleveland stations goodbye too... just too low here.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Digital can have same coverage as analog at lower power. However, it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison either, IIRC.
> 
> 
> I did get an interesting explaination of digital vs. analog the other day, as to why digital is "get it or don't" where analog is "fade out to snow."
> 
> 
> Analog is like a picture. The farther away from your face it is, you can still see it, but after a while, the details get blurred. Digital is like a book. A half-inch from your eye it's distorted and can't be read (too much signal is the analogy.) Four inches away it's readable. 24 inches away it's also readable. As it gets farther, suddenly, it reaches a point where you just can't read it anymore. Either you can read it, or you can't. So whether digital signal strength is 100 or 85%, it works 100% on your screen.



To my understanding either on or off with digital, I reallt never delved into the digital modes on the ham bands (ie: Packet), one would have thought before Television, FM would be broadcasting in CD Quality digital. is the Audio coming from Television coming in Digitally too? I imagine, though sometimes the picture goes out but you still can get audio... I'm sure it's a digital signal for audio too.



> Quote:
> The lake really helps. I was driving on I-90 just south of Buffalo, New York, and I could pick up almost every local Detroit radio station very well. That's around 200 miles. This doesn't occur 100% of the time, but it does happen frequently.



Happens often here, but not as often as you would think, perhaps it's moisture off the lake that may block this. I used to pick up 102.5 quite often from the Falls, but when 102.5 went on in Ashtabula this was gone too, strange they picked that frequency, I can sometimes pick up 103.3 (The Edge) from Buffalo from Ashtabula. One station I leave programmed in the car is 103.7 out of Erie, almost always a good signal, but TV from Erie is nil.


During the "Blackout" a few years back the only station I was able to pick up in the Car in my driveway was 102.5 from Niagra Falls, perhaps other electrical sources were interfering with it too.


----------



## UncPhil

Anybody else having this problem?

I just got D*TV HD service installed. 3, 5, & 8 hd channels come in just fine. However, 19 - WOIO hd feed does not come in too well. The picture stops and starts, and gets blocky. Is this an install problem? or is something wrong with D*TV's WOIO hd feed? Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does Time Warner QAM to viewers in Brunswick? Wondering if I can get an HDTV with no need for a cable box for HD?



That IS ex-Adelphia, right?


Either way, the answer should be yes. I can't remember what's "in the clear" on the Akron/Canton-based original TWC system, but the Cleveland system puts all the local broadcast DT/HD outlets in the clear, along with some other stuff...like the Indians (STO HD) and Cavs (FSN Ohio HD), even DiscoveryHD...and last time I checked, TNTHD.


Some stuff will require the box, like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD because it's not "broadcast basic" tier. i.e. if you have to pay then for the HD Tier channels, you'll need a box and won't get it on QAM.


But the DT/HD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are all in the clear.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That IS ex-Adelphia, right?
> 
> 
> Either way, the answer should be yes. I can't remember what's "in the clear" on the Akron/Canton-based original TWC system, but the Cleveland system puts all the local broadcast DT/HD outlets in the clear, along with some other stuff...like the Indians (STO HD) and Cavs (FSN Ohio HD), even DiscoveryHD...and last time I checked, TNTHD.
> 
> 
> Some stuff will require the box, like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD because it's not "broadcast basic" tier. i.e. if you have to pay then for the HD Tier channels, you'll need a box and won't get it on QAM.
> 
> 
> But the DT/HD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are all in the clear.



Yes, you've got it right. That's pretty much what I remember seeing when I set up my S3. I don't recall however seeing TNT or Discovery in the clear. I may have missed it.


----------



## terryfoster

TWC pretty much only puts the locals in the clear encrypting even the basic HD channels of TNT-HD and Discovery, _usually_.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, you've got it right. That's pretty much what I remember seeing when I set up my S3. I don't recall however seeing TNT or Discovery in the clear. I may have missed it.



I haven't run cable through my F5USB tuner in a long time - it's being used daily to pick up OTA HD stations on my laptop - so I don't know if they've changed anything...


But DiscoveryHD has always been in the clear, at least at this end of the ex-Adelphia/TWC Cleveland system. TNTHD showed up in the clear as soon as TWC took over and added it, but they could have hidden it by now.


For that matter, my new HDTV has a QAM tuner built-in, but I don't feel like unplugging the cable from my SA8000HD to test it... (and a splitter would drop the signal level too low)


----------



## Andrew K

How is it that WVPX can get away without having their digital channel up yet? I know that their channel 59 will eventually be phased out, but I'm surprised that the FCC doesn't require them to at least have a low power special temporary authority like the few Erie channels that are above channel 51.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How is it that WVPX can get away without having their digital channel up yet? I know that their channel 59 will eventually be phased out, but I'm surprised that the FCC doesn't require them to at least have a low power special temporary authority like the few Erie channels that are above channel 51.



There are interference issues with a Canadian station on 59 that must be resolved with the Canadian version of the FCC, similar to the issues that have held up WBNX getting their digital stick up. Of course, let's not fool ourselves here - I'm sure that WVPX is putting forth minimal effort in getting approval for channel 59. They don't want to pay the electric bill for a channel 59 transmitter.


----------



## Bismarck440

I went to check in on the Insignia HD, getting a "No Signal" on 3-1 & 3-2, (yet programmed in) now here is the strange part, I'm getting 2-1 locked @ 37% & no freezing after the initial stall,& no sub. Its an NBC Station.


Info on 3-1 Says WKYC HD, yet no info on 2-1.


3 Not transmitting Virtual Information late Saturday?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are interference issues with a Canadian station on 59 that must be resolved with the Canadian version of the FCC, similar to the issues that have held up WBNX getting their digital stick up. Of course, let's not fool ourselves here - I'm sure that WVPX is putting forth minimal effort in getting approval for channel 59. They don't want to pay the electric bill for a channel 59 transmitter.



Someone brought up 19 going back to 19, however one of the Toledo HD's went to 19, & there is an Analog 30 (WBNX DT assignment ) in Toledo also.


59 from Canada? never picked this one up, however I am picking up a Canadian 51 at times.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UncPhil* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody else having this problem?
> 
> I just got D*TV HD service installed. 3, 5, & 8 hd channels come in just fine. However, 19 - WOIO hd feed does not come in too well. The picture stops and starts, and gets blocky. Is this an install problem? or is something wrong with D*TV's WOIO hd feed? Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks!



UncPhil,

It's definitely D*'s WOIO mpeg4 feed. Saw same issues last night. I've also got OTA and confirmed that there was nothing wrong with 19's signal. For whatever reason 19 is having major issues digitally settling in with D*. No surprise really as they (WOIO) seems to have dragged it's feet through this whole digital age that we're attempting to give birth to!!!


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Someone brought up 19 going back to 19, however one of the Toledo HD's went to 19, & there is an Analog 30 (WBNX DT assignment ) in Toledo also.
> 
> 
> 59 from Canada? never picked this one up, however I am picking up a Canadian 51 at times.



After the transition, there will be no digital channel 19 in Toledo. WTVG 13 is currently broadcasting digitally on 19, but they will move back to 13. WTOL 11 is currently broadcasting digitally on 17, but they will move back to 11. WKYC will have its final resting place on 17. Here is a link to the final DTV channel assignments around the country...

http://www.cmdconsulting.com/uploads...C-06-150A1.pdf 


I'm assuming that the problem with channel 59 is CICO in Chatham Ontario. Although this obviously won't present a problem with WVPX, but permission is still needed from the Canadians.


WBNX-DT will have minimal effect on WGTE analog 30 in Toledo. This can be compared to WOIO-DT and CFPL on 10, WKYC-DT and KDKA or WJBK on 2, WUAB-DT and WTTE on 28, and WQHS-DT and WOSU on 34. No worries because there won't be any digital 30 anywhere near Cleveland after the transition.


----------



## akron05

WXYZ 7 analog in Detroit is coming in as clear as a local tonight. The other Detroit and Toledo stations are watchable.


----------



## akron05

When discussing reaching OTA towers in different locations, we speak of jointennas, multiple antennas, archaic rotors (that ONLY work if you only ever watch one TV at a time...I remember childhood fights because I was pointing the antenna at Youngstown and my sister was trying to watch a Cleveland station in the other room) and I thought: why hasn't someone made either a TV itself, or better yet, a D* or E* STB with TWO OTA antenna inputs? Here's how I envision this working:


You have two antennas, and two downleads. Each one goes into the STB. When you scan for channels, the system checks each channel, with each antenna input, and if there's no signal either way, it goes on, but if there is, it chooses the "best" one and locks on it. That way, you could have the benefit of two antennas in different directions but the ease and conveinence of seamless channel surfing without worrying about rotors, A/B switches, or any of that.


Perhaps it would be something of a niche product but now that the E* 622 already has two satellite tuners that seem to work well, I think they could add a second OTA tuner too so that such a functionality coudl exist without much problem. Even make it so that you can either choose two seperate antennas as inputs, using the method I described above, or simply use one of the inputs for the second TV so that the digital OTA could go to the second television.


----------



## pbarach

Has anyone found an indoor antenna that gives decent HDTV reception for viewers on the East side of Cleveland (Cleveland Hts)? I tried an item that I bought from Radio Shack that looked like the Star Ship Enterprise, but the reception was useless.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone found an indoor antenna that gives decent HDTV reception for viewers on the East side of Cleveland (Cleveland Hts)? I tried an item that I bought from Radio Shack that looked like the Star Ship Enterprise, but the reception was useless.



I like the Zenith Silver Sensor or any comparable brand. I don't know of any indoor antenna that's better. This one is directional, and I use an amplifier with it. It works well for an indoor.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone found an indoor antenna that gives decent HDTV reception for viewers on the East side of Cleveland (Cleveland Hts)? I tried an item that I bought from Radio Shack that looked like the Star Ship Enterprise, but the reception was useless.



I'm in Shaker and use the Silver Sensor in a 3rd floor window aimed at Parma. ~50 ft of RG6 coax to the tuner in the living room. No amplifier. It's UHF only so WKYC is kinda flaky. All the other digital stations come in fine.


If you can't find a Silver Sensor, try a Terk HDTVi, it's similar to the Silver Sensor with the addition of VHF rabbit ears.


If you're on the ground level with no window facing Parma, IMO your odds are pretty slim at getting any reception with a tabletop antenna.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

Don't know if anyone else saw this last night. I was flipping around and noticed WUAB-DT was broadcasting a test pattern. This was sometime late in the 10:00 hour. It was some kind of MY TV test pattern slide with what looked like info about the times for local breaks during the show. The analog WUAB had normal programming on (Action News). Evidentally, someone was asleep at the switch. Normally, I would have tried to contact the station to let them know they had a problem on their digital channel, but since it was Action News that was supposed to be showing, I figured I was doing society a favor by NOT letting them know. I'll bet the test pattern received higher ratings!










Interestingly, in the 11 o'clock, hour, they were showing one of those dopey MY TV soaps, which I think usually are broadcast in primetime. They were showing their regularly scheduled stuff on the analog channel (old sitcoms). I don't know how long this went on; I didn't bother to check in anymore after that.


----------



## UncPhil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> UncPhil,
> 
> It's definitely D*'s WOIO mpeg4 feed. Saw same issues last night. I've also got OTA and confirmed that there was nothing wrong with 19's signal. For whatever reason 19 is having major issues digitally settling in with D*. No surprise really as they (WOIO) seems to have dragged it's feet through this whole digital age that we're attempting to give birth to!!!



Thanks, I also found out that other people are having the same problem with 19 on D*TV. I just hope it's fixed before the NFL playoffs start!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *UncPhil* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, I also found out that other people are having the same problem with 19 on D*TV. I just hope it's fixed before the NFL playoffs start!



Hate to be a bearer of bad tidings but if this involves WOIO investing any money into it don't hold your breath. Once when we tried to get them to start broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 their answer was "you want 5.1? Let CBS pay for it."


----------



## Andrew K

It looks like channel 5 may be starting their news in HD very soon. The following information is from the Ohio Media Watch website.

_"WEWS HD NEWS: You think, maybe, that Cleveland ABC affiliate WEWS/5 is converting its newscasts to the HDTV format?


Maybe.


Maybe that's why "NewsChannel 5" has done roughly 20 stories on buying a new HDTV set in the past week or so. We don't spend a LOT of time with the station, but we keep seeing those stories.


And we did happen to catch confirmation of an item the station first hinted about on its own website, which we passed along a few months ago: Anchor Leon Bibb noted the other day that "NewsChannel 5" will start being broadcast in HD "sometime next month".


The move makes WEWS the third (!) HDTV news operation in the Cleveland market, turning Northeast Ohio into an elite market for HD news. WJW/8 "FOX 8" started the trend, and NBC affiliate WKYC/3 followed a few months ago."_


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It looks like channel 5 may be starting their news in HD very soon. The following information is from the Ohio Media Watch website.
> 
> _"WEWS HD NEWS: You think, maybe, that Cleveland ABC affiliate WEWS/5 is converting its newscasts to the HDTV format?
> 
> 
> Maybe.
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why "NewsChannel 5" has done roughly 20 stories on buying a new HDTV set in the past week or so. We don't spend a LOT of time with the station, but we keep seeing those stories.
> 
> 
> And we did happen to catch confirmation of an item the station first hinted about on its own website, which we passed along a few months ago: Anchor Leon Bibb noted the other day that "NewsChannel 5" will start being broadcast in HD "sometime next month".
> 
> 
> The move makes WEWS the third (!) HDTV news operation in the Cleveland market, turning Northeast Ohio into an elite market for HD news. WJW/8 "FOX 8" started the trend, and NBC affiliate WKYC/3 followed a few months ago."_




Excellent "news" pardon the pun. I like to start watching the news around 5:00 pm and quite honestly I can't stand most of the people on FOX but it is HD news. I have always liked WEWS and I'll be looking forward to watching them in HD.


----------



## paule123

Inundated,

You were wondering how WOIO's HD football could look so good with multicasting and I think I found the reason - they allocate ~2Mbps fixed to the WeatherNow channel whereas WKYC does a stat mux which allocates ~4.5Mbps to WeatherPlus. Fortunately WKYC seems to have made the allocation more dynamic so Sunday Night Football looks better now than it did in the beginning of the season. Last week I saw the WKYC WeatherPlus channel dynamically drop to 2Mbps during action on an SNF game.


----------



## JJkizak

In the past few weeks Sunday Night Football OTA has been the best quality of all the stations except for some minor problems sometimes doing the slow focus bit when cutting from network commercial to the playing field. The HD commercials are equally good with the SD stuff very good except for some spiderwebbing text issues on my 46" Sony LCD XBR2.

JJK


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You have two antennas, and two downleads. Each one goes into the STB. When you scan for channels, the system checks each channel, with each antenna input, and if there's no signal either way, it goes on, but if there is, it chooses the "best" one and locks on it. That way, you could have the benefit of two antennas in different directions but the ease and conveinence of seamless channel surfing without worrying about rotors, A/B switches, or any of that.



There's actually a simpler solution. It takes some playing, but I had a lot of success with it and haven't had to touch it one I got it set. If you have multiple antenna sources, just sum them together using a splitter (backwards).


I was having trouble getting the Youngstown stations (mostly UHF) at the same time I was getting Cleveland (mostly VHF). So I use two different antennas pointed in different directions, then sum them together....then I sum these with the channel 60 and 62 that Dish's VIP622 creates, and send this to each TV.


Even if an antennae gets one additional channel due to it's location or size, you should be able to add it to another antenna's signal that is missing this one channel...thereby getting all channels at the same time on one co-ax cable.


----------



## SuperAmmo

Can anyone fill me in on why WOIO HD doesn't show up when I do a QAM channel scan? I know this isn't over the air reception but I'm really curious.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone fill me in on why WOIO HD doesn't show up when I do a QAM channel scan? I know this isn't over the air reception but I'm really curious.



It should be there right at 19.1. That's where it was when I scanned with my S3 before cable card install.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That IS ex-Adelphia, right?
> 
> 
> Either way, the answer should be yes. I can't remember what's "in the clear" on the Akron/Canton-based original TWC system, but the Cleveland system puts all the local broadcast DT/HD outlets in the clear, along with some other stuff...like the Indians (STO HD) and Cavs (FSN Ohio HD), even DiscoveryHD...and last time I checked, TNTHD.
> 
> 
> Some stuff will require the box, like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD because it's not "broadcast basic" tier. i.e. if you have to pay then for the HD Tier channels, you'll need a box and won't get it on QAM.
> 
> 
> But the DT/HD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are all in the clear.




Thanks Inundated.


----------



## Telosian

Anyone know if and when Time Warner plans to add Universal HD to their offerings? I am hoping to catch Battlestar Galactica Season 3 in widescreen and HD instead of SD on SciFi. I watched a free "catch up" episode on my iPod. It was a free download from the iTunes store labeled "The Story so Far" (45min.) It looked pretty good but watching it on a 3.5 inch screen made me wish it was a whole lot bigger and in Hi Def. The production values (lighting, effects, music etc.) looked pretty good.


----------



## terryfoster

Well, some TWC markets already have Universal HD. It is likely your market either doesn't have the bandwidth available (not as likely) or they didn't feel there was enough demand for it (more likely). You and all of your TWC subscribing friends need to contact your TWC office to request this channel and then hope they negotiate to have it added to your market.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone fill me in on why WOIO HD doesn't show up when I do a QAM channel scan? I know this isn't over the air reception but I'm really curious.



Probably a weak signal in your house. Try connecting the QAM tuner directly to the cable feed coming in the house with no other splitters connected.


QAM seems really sensitive to weak signals. It also helps to scan 2 or 3 times.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And we did happen to catch confirmation of an item the station first hinted about on its own website, which we passed along a few months ago: Anchor Leon Bibb noted the other day that "NewsChannel 5" will start being broadcast in HD "sometime next month".



They are currently building their HD control room. It shouldn't be long...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know if and when Time Warner plans to add Universal HD to their offerings? I am hoping to catch Battlestar Galactica Season 3 in widescreen and HD instead of SD on SciFi. I watched a free "catch up" episode on my iPod. It was a free download from the iTunes store labeled "The Story so Far" (45min.) It looked pretty good but watching it on a 3.5 inch screen made me wish it was a whole lot bigger and in Hi Def. The production values (lighting, effects, music etc.) looked pretty good.



Their is a member of this forum who drops in only once and a while named hanson. He has some contacts with people at TW (old Adelphia) and has already said the next two HD additions will be Universal and WNEO. He has never been wrong about anything he has said would be coming. He did not give a date on this however and it's been at least since October since we last heard from him.


You can try and pm him, I have and he's never responded.


----------



## Ben Music

Don't forget that INHD-2 goes away on 1/1/07. Maybe Universal or WNEO will be the replacement.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't forget that INHD-2 goes away on 1/1/07. Maybe Universal or WNEO will be the replacement.
> 
> 
> Ben Music




Huh? I never heard that.


----------



## UncPhil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hate to be a bearer of bad tidings but if this involves WOIO investing any money into it don't hold your breath. Once when we tried to get them to start broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 their answer was "you want 5.1? Let CBS pay for it."



Whatever the problem was, it's fixed. WOIO 19 HD is now working on D*TV.


----------



## Brian5150

Any1 getting the Cavs/ Hawks game in hd tonight?

FSN HD is just showing a logo tonight.

I'm in Medina on Armstrong.


Thx


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian5150* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any1 getting the Cavs/ Hawks game in hd tonight?
> 
> FSN HD is just showing a logo tonight.
> 
> I'm in Medina on Armstrong.
> 
> 
> Thx



No FSN HD game on WOW cable either although it shows up in the on-screen guide as well as the schedule posted on the FSN HD website.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't forget that INHD-2 goes away on 1/1/07. Maybe Universal or WNEO will be the replacement.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Well, since I didn't get a response to my post I went to the source. I called TW and they confirmed that they are dropping INHD-2 on the above mentioned date. I asked specifically about Universal replaceing it and he gave me the "to be determined" canned line.


Explanation for cancelling INHD2 was you can get all programs on one channel. Personally I don't watch that much and I don't care but there are some MLB games they show and I won't be to happy if they start showing them on INHD2 instead of INHD.


We will see.


----------



## Rijax

As I understand it, it isn't TW that's dropping INHD2. The parent company of INHD (iN Demand) is dropping it. There will be no more INHD2 anywhere. I'm on Cox cable and we won't have INHD2 either.


They are using the spin that they are "combining" the two stations to make us feel as though we aren't losing anything. I suspect (pure speculation on my part) that they are finding that the constant repetition of shows on two channels isn't that popular or cost effective, so they will just show the same programs a bit less frequently on one channel. I'm guessing the only programming we will actually lose will be that which they decide isn't popular.


While not actually losing any programs, the reality is, of course, that we will have one less choice in our HDTV lineups at any given time of the day. I wouldn't mind if Cox would just pick up HDNet and HDNet movies.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Huh? I never heard that.


 True, Read this..... 


InHD and InHD2 are merging into one on Jan. 1st and are even thinking about changing names. Possibly Mojo!?


----------



## hookbill

I kind of wondered if that wasn't the case, I just thought "evil cable company, cuts back on channels".










The rep never mentioned that it was In Demand that was cutting out INHD2.


Rijax, HDnet Movies can be cool, they come up with some good stuff. Quality of their older stuff can sometimes be marginal at best but some great classic movies to watch in HD. The other day I watched "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest", Jack Nicholson at his finest. It was a blast.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's actually a simpler solution. It takes some playing, but I had a lot of success with it and haven't had to touch it one I got it set. If you have multiple antenna sources, just sum them together using a splitter (backwards).
> 
> 
> I was having trouble getting the Youngstown stations (mostly UHF) at the same time I was getting Cleveland (mostly VHF). So I use two different antennas pointed in different directions, then sum them together....then I sum these with the channel 60 and 62 that Dish's VIP622 creates, and send this to each TV.
> 
> 
> Even if an antennae gets one additional channel due to it's location or size, you should be able to add it to another antenna's signal that is missing this one channel...thereby getting all channels at the same time on one co-ax cable.



In my experience, since I *almost* get most Cleveland digital stations even when aimed at Youngstown, I'd think the two antennas together would cause severe multipath issues for the Cleveland and Akron stations with two antennas together. Analog is different, I can get most analogs fairly clear out of Cleveland even when I aim at Youngstown, with the exception of WEWS and WVIZ.


For digital, the signal strength of the Cleveland stations jumps from 0 to 100 or whatever not allowing me to lock, but it's strong enough to worry about multipath.


Although, some suggest that if both cables (the coax to each antenna) are identical in length prior to the combiner, you can avoid much of that. What I would wonder is, if you put a preamp on the Youngstown antenna but NOT the Cleveland one, does the length of the preamp count in the antenna length or not?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian5150* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in Medina on Armstrong.
> 
> 
> Thx



Hey Brian,


Do you get guide data for the NFL Network both HD and SD? How about STO? There are several others that just show TBD on my box, but I don't want to have to set up a service call if it's a system-wide thing.


Thanks!


----------



## Ben Music

hookbill,


See private message.


Ben Music


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In my experience, since I *almost* get most Cleveland digital stations even when aimed at Youngstown, I'd think the two antennas together would cause severe multipath issues for the Cleveland and Akron stations with two antennas together. Analog is different, I can get most analogs fairly clear out of Cleveland even when I aim at Youngstown, with the exception of WEWS and WVIZ.
> 
> 
> For digital, the signal strength of the Cleveland stations jumps from 0 to 100 or whatever not allowing me to lock, but it's strong enough to worry about multipath.
> 
> 
> Although, some suggest that if both cables (the coax to each antenna) are identical in length prior to the combiner, you can avoid much of that. What I would wonder is, if you put a preamp on the Youngstown antenna but NOT the Cleveland one, does the length of the preamp count in the antenna length or not?



All I can suggest is to try it. Antenna signals are a bit of voodoo. I am in a similar situation. The length of the cable didn't concern me, only that I got 95% from CLE in one antenna, and 78% from YNG in the other antenna. I then combined and uses a signal amplifier with FM trap. Maybe the combination lowered both a little, but not much.


You can also try to amplify only one of the two. I actually use an attenuator later in the chain on the VIP622 signal. Give it a try and see what works for your setup. I think you'll be better off than one antenna by itself.


----------



## Andrew K

If you get your digital channels OTA, you may find this interesting. A test was done to determine how a digital channel would interfere with an analog.


The following example was done in Kentucky with a channel 15. The first picture is an analog signal which is 79 miles away. It is an excellent and viewable picture. The second picture is the same analog signal taken 30 seconds later after a digital channel 15 signs on at 59 miles away. You will see how the digital channel causes major interference with the analog picture.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../15-wkpc-1.jpg 
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../15-wkpc-2.jpg 


Now when it came to the digital channel 15, the analog didn't seem to cause any problems for the digital. Here is the digital signal picture...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...-wkmr-DT-2.jpg


----------



## Telosian

Thanks everyone for info on Universal HD. I was just browsing and saw inhd2 has nothing listed after Jan 1 so that seems like a done deal. Safe to say all we want is more HD!


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I kind of wondered if that wasn't the case, I just thought "evil cable company, cuts back on channels".



A perfectly reasonable assumption!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rijax, HDnet Movies can be cool, they come up with some good stuff. Quality of their older stuff can sometimes be marginal at best but some great classic movies to watch in HD. The other day I watched "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest", Jack Nicholson at his finest. It was a blast.



Thanks, Hookbill. That is precisely why I'm hoping Cox will get their rear in gear and pick them up. Believe it or not, the last time I talked to Cox CS and recommended picking up both HDNet Channels, the rep said "gee, I've never heard of them."

















I am an "old" movie freak (I was going to say "buff" but decided that was too soft). However, at my age, I consider _One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest_ to be a "contemporary" movie.







When I say "old," I mean "older than me." I'm talking _Gone With The Wind_ and _Casablanca_.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A perfectly reasonable assumption!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am an "old" movie freak (I was going to say "buff" but decided that was too soft). However, at my age, I consider _One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest_ to be a "contemporary" movie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I say "old," I mean "older than me." I'm talking _Gone With The Wind_ and _Casablanca_.



Yes, I'm 54 so I understand what you mean. To be honest I don't think HDnet Movies has that in it's library, thats more like TCM. My wife is only 39 and she has not seen a great deal of what you and I consider "contemporary" movies. She thinks of these as old movies and it's hard to get her to watch them but I enjoy seeing them again. I've talked to her about "Gone With The Wind" - she has zero interest.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can also try to amplify only one of the two.



Careful doing this! The amplified output will have elevated noise (by the gain of the amplifier) and could mask or override signals from the unamplified leg. I wouldn't suggest this approach....


----------



## Lighting Guy

I'm at my aunt and uncles house for the weekend in avon lake, and he's got an hdtv with an atsc and qam tuner. (Toshiba 50hp66) He's got standard cable it seems, but when I type in channel 211 for example, which should be nbc-dt, the tv says "Digital Signal Strength is Low" and nothing else appears. The coax run to the tv from the wall is short, so I'm wondering if there's anything I am missing or something I can do to watch me some HD? Thanks.


----------



## stuart628

Inhd2 will be dropped starting jan 1st, also TWC just picked up MtvHD and A&E Hd, who knows what cleveland will get though, it could be universal, MTvHD, or A&E hd, or nothing







sorry I have been away for a while, we just opened a subway at the new brimfield walmart and for the last two months I have been working non stop there, so I thought I would come and see how my old friends were doing here in the cleveland OTA forum (by the way I will be back on more now). I have Directv HD, with a antenna hooked up, and I HATE directvs way of giving us OTA, I dont have 19-2, 17-5, and all of nbc for over the air, baiscally the way they do it for their Hr20-700 is feed guide data through for the channels they pick out, and thats the ones you get. There is no scanning, there is no nothing of adding those few channels from other markets, oh well I hope it changes, but who knows how much longer I am going to be with Directv as their rates are rumored to be going up, and if thats the case, even though time warner dosent have alot of HD it might just be for me. enjoy guys, hope to catch up with all of you, and whats been going on here in the forum


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm at my aunt and uncles house for the weekend in avon lake, and he's got an hdtv with an atsc and qam tuner. (Toshiba 50hp66) He's got standard cable it seems, but when I type in channel 211 for example, which should be nbc-dt, the tv says "Digital Signal Strength is Low" and nothing else appears. The coax run to the tv from the wall is short, so I'm wondering if there's anything I am missing or something I can do to watch me some HD? Thanks.



The signal strength could be low or there cound be ingress on that frequency which could degrade the C/N ratio enough to cause problems. Make sure the RF connections are tight. Go outside and look for a splitter on the side of the house and check those connectors also.


----------



## Lighting Guy

I'll check the connections. I did check about 5 of the supposed digital channels, so I think its everything, not just that frequency (channel). Is it possible for the signal to be just that low? If so, if we actually had digital cable here, would it not work, or would the STB that came from TWC boost the signal?


Ok behind the tv there is a splitter, and the 2 outs are 3.5 db? Is that a problem?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... but who knows how much longer I am going to be with Directv as their rates are rumored to be going up, and if thats the case, even though time warner dosent have alot of HD it might just be for me. enjoy guys, hope to catch up with all of you, and whats been going on here in the forum



FYI, TWC's rates have gone up in some markets. If I were paying full price for my cable it would be significantly more expensive than D*, but if TWC provides more of what you need and you can afford the price then more power to you.


----------



## hookbill

terryforster, just curious. Are they using Switched Video in your area?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, TWC's rates have gone up in some markets. If I were paying full price for my cable it would be significantly more expensive than D*, but if TWC provides more of what you need and you can afford the price then more power to you.



I checked with them for satellite buy back, and for 99 dollars a month, I would get digital cable, Phone, and Full speed Roadrunner, for 18 months, then it could only go up by 10 dollars the year after that, and the year after that...add on the 6.95 for HD, and the 5.99 for dvr, plus taxes, and it is about twenty dollars cheaper then what my wife and I are paying now, before any directv rate increase, and 10 dollar SBC increase (after our DSL is up, their new Dsl rates)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I checked with them for satellite buy back, and for 99 dollars a month, I would get digital cable, Phone, and Full speed Roadrunner, for 18 months, then it could only go up by 10 dollars the year after that, and the year after that...add on the 6.95 for HD, and the 5.99 for dvr, plus taxes, and it is about twenty dollars cheaper then what my wife and I are paying now, before any directv rate increase, and 10 dollar SBC increase (after our DSL is up, their new Dsl rates)



I'd find out what they mean by "full speed" Roadrunner. It may be actually their "lowest" speed, maybe not but I'd want to make sure.


Now let's talk about the DVR.







If you have the HR20 you probably have a better DVR. Are you leasing that from D* or did you purchase it before they started renting them? Anyway the SA 8300 is a real piece of garbage. I went through 3 of them in 2 years time. Mine got partial recordings at least twice a week, you cannot record first run only and as a result of that if a show is playing lets say on Tuesday at 8:00 and they have it again on Friday at 8:00 it will record it again. Big deal, you can erase it, right? Maybe. Because if you happen to have 2 shows recording on that Friday and it attempts to record that other show you will have NOTHING recorded. And you won't receive a conflict warning. It will warn you about a conflict if you try to record a show on a day and time you already have two scheduled on but that's it.


You only get 1 week of guide info. The quality of the recordings are sometimes very bad. I've had to sit through some shows that sound like R2D2 was cutting in every once in a while. Quality of analog shows can be real bad. Digital shows are not so bad.


And speaking of digital you are aware that yo don't get digital until you get past channel 100.


Just thought I'd give you my opinion on it. There is something you can do to rectify all this. Right now you can buy one from the TCF store for 650.00 Expensive but so much better. The TiVo S3. It's the only way to go.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd find out what they mean by "full speed" Roadrunner. It may be actually their "lowest" speed, maybe not but I'd want to make sure.
> 
> 
> Now let's talk about the DVR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the HR20 you probably have a better DVR. Are you leasing that from D* or did you purchase it before they started renting them? Anyway the SA 8300 is a real piece of garbage. I went through 3 of them in 2 years time. Mine got partial recordings at least twice a week, you cannot record first run only and as a result of that if a show is playing lets say on Tuesday at 8:00 and they have it again on Friday at 8:00 it will record it again. Big deal, you can erase it, right? Maybe. Because if you happen to have 2 shows recording on that Friday and it attempts to record that other show you will have NOTHING recorded. And you won't receive a conflict warning. It will warn you about a conflict if you try to record a show on a day and time you already have two scheduled on but that's it.
> 
> 
> You only get 1 week of guide info. The quality of the recordings are sometimes very bad. I've had to sit through some shows that sound like R2D2 was cutting in every once in a while. Quality of analog shows can be real bad. Digital shows are not so bad.
> 
> 
> And speaking of digital you are aware that yo don't get digital until you get past channel 100.
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd give you my opinion on it. There is something you can do to rectify all this. Right now you can buy one from the TCF store for 650.00 Expensive but so much better. The TiVo S3. It's the only way to go.



The Hr20, while nice, is not real reliable. I have been through 4-5 different machines. Before I start, please dont think I am against Directv in anyway, I will tell you why we are thinking about switching. I love my Directv service, and the only thing I have against it are, I have a 50 lb satellite dish on my roof, and the Hr20 resets itself once to twice a week. I do like my Hr20, and the problems I have had are pretty normal from reading at satelliteguys.us and dbstalk.com. I was sent 3 boxes in a row, each with a bad 2nd tuner, meaning I could only record a show, or watch a show, no combo of the two. The first unit (what started all the swapping) was overheating and shutting itself off. All this and the Hr20 has only been out what 3-4 months, Also it seems that they have their act together now, for the most part, and other then the freezes/reboots, it records pretty much what I want it to. I dont do a ton of recording (5-6 shows a week) so I am not relying on it that much. Also about the 650 for the tivo, I have already spent my play money for the year, as I bought a Ps3 for the Bluray, and Love it, so I dont think I will swap that for the tivo series 3!







I wish I could. Here is the reason we are trying to cut any corner we can, we are 25, my wife and I, and we just found out we are expecting our first child, so alot of things we are going to be doing without so we can afford to stay in the house we are in, and have her take time off of work. I wont be getting the sunday ticket for a while, and with directv and SBC we are promised rate increases every year, while with Time warner, with this deal, we are given at least 3-4 years where we know what are rates are going to be, they will be locked in. Also I did check into their Road Runner claim, and it is not Road Runner lite, but the full blown Road Runner (it seems me and you think the same in alot of areas, because I asked all the questions you just had me check, as I try to see beyond their marketing ploys!)


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> terryforster, just curious. Are they using Switched Video in your area?



I don't believe they are. I contacted a L3 tech awhile ago and they didn't believe we were on SDV. I was able to somewhat confirm this by using the diagnosis mode on my cable box and getting a unique QAM channel and program id for all of the channels I investigated. This is even with digital simulcast. The only sign I think would lead me to believe we switched to SDV would be an increase in HD channels that hasn't happened.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Hr20, while nice, is not real reliable. I have been through 4-5 different machines. Before I start, please dont think I am against Directv in anyway, I will tell you why we are thinking about switching. I love my Directv service, and the only thing I have against it are, I have a 50 lb satellite dish on my roof, and the Hr20 resets itself once to twice a week. I do like my Hr20, and the problems I have had are pretty normal from reading at satelliteguys.us and dbstalk.com. I was sent 3 boxes in a row, each with a bad 2nd tuner, meaning I could only record a show, or watch a show, no combo of the two. The first unit (what started all the swapping) was overheating and shutting itself off. All this and the Hr20 has only been out what 3-4 months, Also it seems that they have their act together now, for the most part, and other then the freezes/reboots, it records pretty much what I want it to. I dont do a ton of recording (5-6 shows a week) so I am not relying on it that much. Also about the 650 for the tivo, I have already spent my play money for the year, as I bought a Ps3 for the Bluray, and Love it, so I dont think I will swap that for the tivo series 3!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I could. Here is the reason we are trying to cut any corner we can, we are 25, my wife and I, and we just found out we are expecting our first child, so alot of things we are going to be doing without so we can afford to stay in the house we are in, and have her take time off of work. I wont be getting the sunday ticket for a while, and with directv and SBC we are promised rate increases every year, while with Time warner, with this deal, we are given at least 3-4 years where we know what are rates are going to be, they will be locked in. Also I did check into their Road Runner claim, and it is not Road Runner lite, but the full blown Road Runner (it seems me and you think the same in alot of areas, because I asked all the questions you just had me check, as I try to see beyond their marketing ploys!)




I understand and you shouldn't buy something you really can't afford so your doing the right thing. I should mention to that my experience with the SA 8300 is not the same as everybody. I know some people who actually think it's pretty good and didn't have the partial recording issues I had. However I stand by the quality of the recordings not being that great but I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the S3. Ignorance is bliss as they say.


Sounds like you did your homework. And congratulations to you and your wife.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe they are. I contacted a L3 tech awhile ago and they didn't believe we were on SDV. I was able to somewhat confirm this by using the diagnosis mode on my cable box and getting a unique QAM channel and program id for all of the channels I investigated. This is even with digital simulcast. The only sign I think would lead me to believe we switched to SDV would be an increase in HD channels that hasn't happened.



I see a lot on the TiVo forum with people who have to deal with it. Seems Dallas is a big SDV area. Many of the SDV channels arn't on HD, and it seems like the HD that they had before going to SDV stayed on the regular cable. In other words if ESPN2 was on before SDV it stayed there but if they added lets say Universal then that would go to SDV.


In any case I think if and when it comes it will probably hit your area before it comes up here. From what I heard they are going to unify the TW in our area in June 07.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand and you shouldn't buy something you really can't afford so your doing the right thing. I should mention to that my experience with the SA 8300 is not the same as everybody. I know some people who actually think it's pretty good and didn't have the partial recording issues I had. However I stand by the quality of the recordings not being that great but I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the S3. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
> 
> 
> Sounds like you did your homework. And congratulations to you and your wife.



thank you for your warm wishes. I believe, and this is based on all readings at forums that cable has another ace up its sleeve with SDV, we will see how it pans out. I know it may take a while for cable to add the HD that satellite companies are adding, but it will get there, also for the time being I am not concerned as I probably wont have much time for tv.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll check the connections. I did check about 5 of the supposed digital channels, so I think its everything, not just that frequency (channel). Is it possible for the signal to be just that low? If so, if we actually had digital cable here, would it not work, or would the STB that came from TWC boost the signal?
> 
> 
> Ok behind the tv there is a splitter, and the 2 outs are 3.5 db? Is that a problem?



The splitter divides the signal evenly between the two ports. In logrithmic terms, 3db represents half the signal, so each output is 3.5db lower than the signal level at the input to the splitter.


You can try bypassing the splitter and going directly into the device in question. This effectively doubles the signal level going to that set. If your digital problems go away, then you've found the culprit - low levels.


Also, there's more than one digital channel transmitted on each QAM. If you're looking at SD channels, there can be anywhere from 8-14 channels on that single QAM frequency. If there's ingress on that frequency, it wil interfere with all of those channels.


Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The splitter divides the signal evenly between the two ports. In logrithmic terms, 3db represents half the signal, so each output is 3.5db lower than the signal level at the input to the splitter.
> 
> 
> You can try bypassing the splitter and going directly into the device in question. This effectively doubles the signal level going to that set. If your digital problems go away, then you've found the culprit - low levels.
> 
> 
> Also, there's more than one digital channel transmitted on each QAM. If you're looking at SD channels, there can be anywhere from 8-14 channels on that single QAM frequency. If there's ingress on that frequency, it wil interfere with all of those channels.
> 
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted.




Well all this is almost obsolete because I'm leaving in a few hours, but I have yet to get it working. I guess first off I'm confused as to which channel numbers I should be looking at, since I'm technically not using OTA or TWC's digital cable. Or am I using TWC digital? If that's the case, then channel 211 should be a local network's DT broadcast. I go to it, and check out the signal meter it is 0. If I go to 2.1 though, the signal meter reads 56 (58 when I bypass the splitter). Apparently that is still not enough of a signal, because it just gives me the message about digital signal strength low.


I did find the splitters in the basement that get split off the main line, and all of those connections were tight. In two words... I'm lost.


----------



## JJkizak

Cathode Kid:

Are there any brands of splitters that have less than 3 db loss?

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well all this is almost obsolete because I'm leaving in a few hours, but I have yet to get it working. I guess first off I'm confused as to which channel numbers I should be looking at, since I'm technically not using OTA or TWC's digital cable. Or am I using TWC digital? If that's the case, then channel 211 should be a local network's DT broadcast. I go to it, and check out the signal meter it is 0. If I go to 2.1 though, the signal meter reads 56 (58 when I bypass the splitter). Apparently that is still not enough of a signal, because it just gives me the message about digital signal strength low.
> 
> 
> I did find the splitters in the basement that get split off the main line, and all of those connections were tight. In two words... I'm lost.



Have TW come out and do a signal check at your home. They will check every connection to make sure it is what it should be. If you need an amplifier they will giveyou one. If you need a signal decreased in a certain direction they have splitters that can decrease the signal in one direction while not changing it in another. This won't cost you anything but your time. This is what they did when they hooked up my cable cards on my S3.


----------



## hookbill

Hey I just saw something in the TiVo forum that was kind of interesting about SDV. Apparently it is full board in Rochester NY. Look here and you can see what people can get with SDV and what they get with cable cards. I'll bet this will eventually be the future for people like me who own the S3. Not too bad as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid:
> 
> Are there any brands of splitters that have less than 3 db loss?
> 
> JJK



Nope. 3dB is one half of the total signal.

So 1/2 of the signal goes to output A and 1/2 of the signal goes to output B.

But powered splitters (drop amps) are available.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well all this is almost obsolete because I'm leaving in a few hours, but I have yet to get it working. I guess first off I'm confused as to which channel numbers I should be looking at, since I'm technically not using OTA or TWC's digital cable. Or am I using TWC digital? If that's the case, then channel 211 should be a local network's DT broadcast. I go to it, and check out the signal meter it is 0. If I go to 2.1 though, the signal meter reads 56 (58 when I bypass the splitter). Apparently that is still not enough of a signal, because it just gives me the message about digital signal strength low.
> 
> 
> I did find the splitters in the basement that get split off the main line, and all of those connections were tight. In two words... I'm lost.



Yes, you're using TWC digital. But the channel number 211 you see on a TWC set top box may not have any relation to what you punch in on your TV's tuner. The cable company usually internally remaps/renumbers channels in their on screen guides to make the channels easier to navigate. What you're trying to do is skip the set top box and pick up the "raw" digital cable signal from TWC, and when you do that the channel numbering is very different. Have you done a complete channel scan on the TV to see what cable (QAM) channels it finds? On my LG LCD TV it will scan all the analog cable channels into memory first, then all the over-the-air channels, then all the digital cable channels. I can then go into the setup menus and view/edit the digital cable channels it has memorized.


The QAM channel numbers can be all over the place, you might get something with a dash like 115-3 or a plain three digit number like 501 or 202. Some tuners are so poorly designed they don't give you a way to punch in the QAM subchannel channel number (i.e., no way to key in the dash-3 in my 115-3 example). The only way to tune these is to have the TV memorize them and channel up/down to them.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm at my aunt and uncles house for the weekend in avon lake, and he's got an hdtv with an atsc and qam tuner. (Toshiba 50hp66) He's got standard cable it seems, but when I type in channel 211 for example, which should be nbc-dt, the tv says "Digital Signal Strength is Low" and nothing else appears. The coax run to the tv from the wall is short, so I'm wondering if there's anything I am missing or something I can do to watch me some HD? Thanks.



I have an LG QAM tuner, and my channel numbers don't match those of TWC. Here in Lyndhurst, formerly Adelphia, the channels I get are:


84-2, 84-3, 84-4, 84-5, 84-6, 84-8 Local stations non HD

86-3 Discovery HD

88-1 Bonus HD (Cavs and Indians usually)

88-3 TNT HD

90-13 Logo

103-3, 103-10 Local weather subchannels

104-3 NBC HD

104-6 WUAB HD

105-5 ABC HD

105-8 FOX HD

113-2 PBS HD

113-2 CBS HD


Also, you may want to look at the owner's manual for the TV. Do you need to do anything special to select the QAM tuner as an input? Is there a way to tell the QAM tuner to scan for channels?


Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but you should be sure the tuner is active before you start chasing down wiring problems.


----------



## paule123

Lighting Guy,

Also make sure you've connected the cable to the proper coax input on the back of the TV. I vaguely remember someone with a Sharp LCD that had 3 coax inputs on the back and only 1 of them was connected to the digital cable (QAM) tuner. The other two coax inputs only tuned over-the-air or analog cable channels.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Have TW come out and do a signal check at your home. They will check every connection to make sure it is what it should be. If you need an amplifier they will giveyou one. If you need a signal decreased in a certain direction they have splitters that can decrease the signal in one direction while not changing it in another. This won't cost you anything but your time. This is what they did when they hooked up my cable cards on my S3.



Well like I mentioned I'm leaving today, but if my Aunt and Uncle are interested I'll let them know.



> Quote:
> Also, you may want to look at the owner's manual for the TV. Do you need to do anything special to select the QAM tuner as an input? Is there a way to tell the QAM tuner to scan for channels?
> 
> 
> Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but you should be sure the tuner is active before you start chasing down wiring problems.



There is no options in the set up menus for digital or qam or anything like that. I would manualy go channel to channel, but it takes so long for the tv to load a single channel like that. Oh well, might be what I have to do since i don't know exactly what channel I'm looking for.


I did look throug the manual first thing when it didn't work how I thought it would. The manual is, surprisingly , useless.



> Quote:
> Lighting Guy,
> 
> Also make sure you've connected the cable to the proper coax input on the back of the TV. I vaguely remember someone with a Sharp LCD that had 3 coax inputs on the back and only 1 of them was connected to the digital cable (QAM) tuner. The other two coax inputs only tuned over-the-air or analog cable channels.



Yep, thought of that too, and even checked the back of the tv and manual again cause I wasn't sure.


Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I'll see what else I can figure out.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Ok so an apology to everyone as it turns out I have found some digital cable channels, Chris Isble was right and they were just random channels on the tv.


Newest problem though is I just found a cbs station with the browns game, great. Info says its 1080i, full. But it is not 16x9, it looks more like 4x3, with black bars on the side. The pic size button for the tv does not work when the tv is displaying hd. Any ideas?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok so an apology to everyone as it turns out I have found some digital cable channels, Chris Isble was right and they were just random channels on the tv.
> 
> 
> Newest problem though is I just found a cbs station with the browns game, great. Info says its 1080i, full. But it is not 16x9, it looks more like 4x3, with black bars on the side. The pic size button for the tv does not work when the tv is displaying hd. Any ideas?



The Browns game is NOT in HD today. The black bars are normal for an SD presentation. I don't believe WOIO is showing any of the HD games today.


However, using OTA for FOX 8.1, I am not getting the game in HD. I thought all FOX NFL games were shown in HD. No?


----------



## Lighting Guy

That's lame, just out of curiosity, why does the tv think its getting HD at 1080i?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Browns game is NOT in HD today. The black bars are normal for an SD presentation. I don't believe WOIO is showing any of the HD games today.
> 
> 
> However, using OTA for FOX 8.1, I am not getting the game in HD. I thought all FOX NFL games were shown in HD. No?



Something is wrong at WJW today, the game should be HD but it's not. I called engineering and left a message.


Sorry, Lighting Guy, you finally got it figured out but both football games aren't HD, LOL ! FYI, the 4pm CBS game won't be HD either. The Bears game on NBC tonight will be HD for sure.


Jeez, now the audio on the Browns game just went whacky!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's lame, just out of curiosity, why does the tv think its getting HD at 1080i?



The TV *is* getting a 1080i signal, but the station has encapsulated a crappy 4:3 standard definition picture inside of it.


The CBS network can only do 3 games on Sunday in HD due to limitations at their operations center. As a result, they pick the best 3 matchups for the HD treatment and all the other teams get SD. Since the Browns are at the bottom of the NFL barrel, they rarely get broadcast in HD.


The Fox network on the other hand can do 6 games simultaneously in HD, so almost all of them are HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Something is wrong at WJW today, the game should be HD but it's not. I called engineering and left a message.



I talked to someone at 216-432-4240 and he said he just received a call about this. He asked if it could possibly be the cable company and I said no, I saw people complaining about it OTA as well. He said he's already alerted master control but will mention it again. I told him that this seems to be local only, on the internet other people are receiving the game in HD just fine.


Feel free to call. The more calls the faster it will get fixed.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Thanks paule123 for all your help. That' just classic that I figure it out now and can't "use it." Oh well, in two days when I'm home I'll hook up my new hdtv and myhd 130 and see how good HD is then.


----------



## kramerboy

Ok! WJW HD is fixed. Game is now in 16x9 HD via OTA 8.1


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok! WJW HD is fixed. Game is now in 16x9 HD via OTA 8.1



Yep. I wonder what happened?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I talked to someone at 216-xxx-xxxx and he said he just received a call about this.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> Feel free to call. The more calls the faster it will get fixed.



Hookbill,


Could you edit your post to exclude the phone number? They're likely to change it if they wind up getting a lot of calls from all over the place, which could be disruptive for them.


ck


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The TV *is* getting a 1080i signal, but the station has encapsulated a crappy 4:3 standard definition picture inside of it.



This is something that confuses the dickens out of the average viewer. Their display says '1080i' but the picture could be a postage-stamp SD signal. The station broadcasts 1080i sync pulses with a 480i signal nestled neatly in the middle of them. It's like projecting a small movie image on a wide screen.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> Could you edit your post to exclude the phone number? They're likely to change it if they wind up getting a lot of calls from all over the place, which could be disruptive for them.
> 
> 
> ck



WJW's new "mycleveland.com" website conveniently provides NO contact information. No phone number, no email addresses. I had to look WJW up in whitepages.com and take a random guess at which number to call out of a half dozen listings. At least the other Cleveland affiliates provide easy to access contact info and phone numbers.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WJW's new "mycleveland.com" website conveniently provides NO contact information. No phone number, no email addresses. I had to look WJW up in whitepages.com and take a random guess at which number to call out of a half dozen listings. At least the other Cleveland affiliates provide easy to access contact info and phone numbers.



The station should be encouraged to provide a public phone number on their website. In the meantime, publishing an internal engineering number without their permission is not a way to win any favors with them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> Could you edit your post to exclude the phone number? They're likely to change it if they wind up getting a lot of calls from all over the place, which could be disruptive for them.
> 
> 
> ck



I could but it isn't a number directly to their engineering. It's the number they have listed for phone calls. I found it by doing a google, it wasn't that difficult.


I posted it here for the benefit of our local viewers. I really don't see the harm in doing that. Take a look here . Nothing private about it. Anyway, you copied the post with the number in it as well.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I could but it isn't a number directly to their engineering. It's the number they have listed for phone calls. I found it by doing a google, it wasn't that difficult.



Oh, sorry about that. If it's a listed number, then that's cool.



> Quote:
> Anyway, you copied the post with the number in it as well.



Nope. Take another look!


----------



## rRooster

I noticed INHD2 has been removed (as previously discussed) on Time Warner Cable.

But it has been replaced with NOTHING? Anybody have any info on this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed INHD2 has been removed (as previously discussed) on Time Warner Cable.
> 
> But it has been replaced with NOTHING? Anybody have any info on this?



My sense was they don't intend to replace it with anything. The rep I spoke to told me they wern't taking anything away since all shows can be seen on INHD.


Still rumours persist about Universal, A&E, and unfortunately, MTV.


Also keep in mind, this was not a Time Warner decision. It was an In Demand decision to cut back to one INHD.


Still, I feel ripped off!


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed INHD2 has been removed (as previously discussed) on Time Warner Cable.
> 
> But it has been replaced with NOTHING? Anybody have any info on this?




Espn2HD is also a presistent rumor, supposedly they are working on a deal, but also remember that the gentleman who handled Time warners Contracts as a whole just retired, and the woman is taking over right now, so it could be a while for her to get her feet wet, or she could try and wow people and make some good contracts, only time will tell!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My sense was they don't intend to replace it with anything. The rep I spoke to told me they wern't taking anything away since all shows can be seen on INHD.
> 
> 
> Still rumours persist about Universal, A&E, and unfortunately, MTV.
> 
> 
> Also keep in mind, this was not a Time Warner decision. It was an In Demand decision to cut back to one INHD.
> 
> 
> Still, I feel ripped off!



InHD was launched at a time when there was very little HD programming available. In a sense it was cable's version of the NBC Peacock, born for the primary purpose of showing off the technology. Now that HD technology is becoming less expensive and more producers are turning out HD content, there have been several additions to the HD lineup, including Discovery HD. Personally I'd much rather have less duplication of content and leave more room for new services. After all, I can only watch so many scenes of rolling hills in Scotland...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Espn2HD is also a presistent rumor, supposedly they are working on a deal, but also remember that the gentleman who handled Time warners Contracts as a whole just retired, and the woman is taking over right now, so it could be a while for her to get her feet wet, or she could try and wow people and make some good contracts, only time will tell!



ESPN2HD is already part of the line up. Has been for sometime now. Are you old Comcast?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ESPN2HD is already part of the line up. Has been for sometime now. Are you old Comcast?



Wait, what? TWC (non-former Adelphia) in your area doesn't have ESPN2HD in their lineup. You may be lucky being a former Adelpha customer with having ESPN2HD, but everyone else is missing it.


----------



## stuart628

Bill, Twc does not have Espn2hd, as far as I know, I was just over my neighbors house and didnt see it anywhere, did they leave it on for old adelphia customers?


----------



## Andrew K

Happy New Years everyone. Here is the update on WEWS HD news. It looks like Action News will also become HD possibly very soon after WEWS. The following is quoted from Ohio Media Watch.
_

"Our source tells us you can expect to see Ted Henry, Lee Jordan, Leon Bibb, Danita Harris and the gang in HD "by late January".


Not only that, the scuttlebutt is - and are you sitting down, folks? - that Raycom Media CBS/MyNetworkTV combo WOIO/19-WUAB/43's "19 Action News" is also getting ready for an HDTV local news conversion. The rumor mill says that was actually also supposed to be done next month, but will be delayed...so WEWS would presumably beat WOIO to the HD punch.


Whenever "19 Action News" completes its HD control room, that will make Cleveland - as far as we know - the only television market in the country with all four of its local news operations in HD. (We forgot to check the sky around Reserve Square for airborne porcine creatures.)"_


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Twc does not have Espn2hd, as far as I know, I was just over my neighbors house and didnt see it anywhere, did they leave it on for old adelphia customers?



It's hasn't changed since TW took over.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whenever "19 Action News" completes its HD control room, that will make Cleveland - as far as we know - the only television market in the country with all four of its local news operations in HD. (We forgot to check the sky around Reserve Square for airborne porcine creatures.)"[/i]



Oh, gee, great. Just what I always wanted.







Inundated will be happy, though!


But when are we going to get all four in DD 5.1? How much you want to bet WOIO will go HD but won't spring for the 5 grand for the audio encoder? And what's the story with channel 5? I thought I had heard they were going to 5.1 "soon."


----------



## Rijax

Can anyone tell me, if the locals can broadcast their news shows in HD, why on earth the networks are unable to do so?


----------



## JJkizak

Watching the Rose Bowl (OTA-HD) I noticed that the typical field shot contained small double images of the players while the close ups were great. And while overall shots of the fans plus the field showed the fans way overexposed. Then closeups of the fans were perfect. the commercials and in-house commentary was perfect. Also notice during the Rose Parade that one of the cameras showed predominently purple and green.

Also noticed during the previous game by ESPN (OTA-HD) the quality overall was not as good as the local broadcasts. Has the ESPN stuff received and transmitted locally been recoded?

JJK


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All I can suggest is to try it. Antenna signals are a bit of voodoo. I am in a similar situation. The length of the cable didn't concern me, only that I got 95% from CLE in one antenna, and 78% from YNG in the other antenna. I then combined and uses a signal amplifier with FM trap. Maybe the combination lowered both a little, but not much.
> 
> 
> You can also try to amplify only one of the two. I actually use an attenuator later in the chain on the VIP622 signal. Give it a try and see what works for your setup. I think you'll be better off than one antenna by itself.



If you either don't have D* or E*, OR, you don't care about integrating OTA, there are a fair number of tv's out there now with dual RF antenna inputs. Typically one is marked "air" and one cable, but from what I've read, most of them will accept an ATSC signal in either or both, just that only one is QAM compatible for cable. So you could hook an antenna into each one aimed in different directions.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Watching the Rose Bowl (OTA-HD) I noticed that the typical field shot contained small double images of the players while the close ups were great. And while overall shots of the fans plus the field showed the fans way overexposed. Then closeups of the fans were perfect. the commercials and in-house commentary was perfect. Also notice during the Rose Parade that one of the cameras showed predominently purple and green.
> 
> Also noticed during the previous game by ESPN (OTA-HD) the quality overall was not as good as the local broadcasts. Has the ESPN stuff received and transmitted locally been recoded?
> 
> JJK



I didn't notice exposure problems or double images on the WCPO-DT broadcast of the Rose Bowl so I'm not sure what caused the problem you saw. It might have been your affiliate, your equipment, or your network path it's hard to say.


By the "previous game" do you mean the Citrus (Capital One) Bowl on ABC? This game can still be considered an ABC production, but the difference is it has the ESPN branding that all sporting events on ABC have had this season. Not all the equipment Disney uses for live sporting productions are equal. They probably decided to send the better equipment to other bowls and sent lesser equipment to the Citrus Bowl.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bill, Twc does not have Espn2hd, as far as I know, I was just over my neighbors house and didnt see it anywhere, did they leave it on for old adelphia customers?



Yep I still have it too.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't know if anyone else saw this last night. I was flipping around and noticed WUAB-DT was broadcasting a test pattern. This was sometime late in the 10:00 hour. It was some kind of MY TV test pattern slide with what looked like info about the times for local breaks during the show. The analog WUAB had normal programming on (Action News). Evidentally, someone was asleep at the switch. Normally, I would have tried to contact the station to let them know they had a problem on their digital channel, but since it was Action News that was supposed to be showing, I figured I was doing society a favor by NOT letting them know. I'll bet the test pattern received higher ratings!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, in the 11 o'clock, hour, they were showing one of those dopey MY TV soaps, which I think usually are broadcast in primetime. They were showing their regularly scheduled stuff on the analog channel (old sitcoms). I don't know how long this went on; I didn't bother to check in anymore after that.



What you saw was the raw MNTV network feed. Someone at master control forgot to flip the switch again. This has happened on other stations as well. If noone catches it you will see the west-coast feed at 11 PM (that is why you saw a program that was supposed to air at 8 PM at 11). Thisused tohappen on WEWS all the time at 11 PM, and at least once on WOIO after the late football game (got a CBS NYC test pattern for 40 minutes or so during the time "60 Minutes" was on the analog station).


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cemkf3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked at TitianTV's listings and they did not even have data for 49.3, so that won't help me much.
> 
> 
> As for my setup, I have a PC dedicated to TV.
> 
> 3Ghz processor
> 
> 1GB RAM
> 
> NVidia 6800 graphics card with DVI out to a 19" widescreen (16:10) monitor.
> 
> 1 Air2PC ATSC only capture card
> 
> 160GB Hard Drive for recordings
> 
> My sound card supports 5.1 audio but I haven't hooked it up yet.
> 
> 
> For software I run MythTV .20 on Ubuntu Linux. The Air2PC is a DVB card and it is supported by the linux kernal so there was nothing to configure to get the tuner working.
> 
> 
> MYHD, Record_This and MediaPortal are probably not going to be working for me since I am running Linux instead of Windows although the MYHD card does have Linux drivers in development. I believe that I could get the QAM reception over cable if I had it but I am only receiving OTA channels currently. I have a rooftop antenna oriented at about 330 deg and get 3,5,8,17,19,27,43,49,61,67
> 
> 
> While there are a lot of things that I could improve on the system (160GB is just not enough for recording HD for example) I am pretty happy with it and use it as the only source of TV viewing in the house.
> 
> 
> What kind of a setup do you have? Is your PC your primary source or is it more of a hobby? Do you have good results with OTA? If so what antenna placement has worked best for you?



Sorry I have not replied sooner. Off for the holidays and now just getting back to reading this forum.


I put a new PC together for my HTPC/MEC with the following:


Antec case NSK2400 (not a tower case, black with silver front). So the PC looks like a "stereo device".


MoBo MSI 945GM3-F with 2GB DDR2-667 memory, built in 5.1 sound. MoBo supports both Dual and Core 2 Dual CPU's.


CPU Intel 775 socket Dual 945, 3.4GHz


Hitachi 500GB HDS725050KLA360 SATAII 7200rpm 16MB


Creative DTS-610 for connecting PC audio to Home Theater Receiver for DTS 5.1 audio via optical cable.


Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse MX-5000 Bluetooth II good up to (60 ft)


Video Nvidia 6600GT with DVI and analog outputs


2 DVD burners Pioneer DVR-111D


USB-UIRT for IR control of PC (not using yet).


DVICO FusionHDTV5 RT Gold. Using TW cable QAM for TV reception.


Snapstream Beyond TV (with optional burner software) and Beyond Media software with FireFLY RF remote control


Connected to my Panny 50" plazma via DVI to HDMI cable.


Connected to 1GB lan/RR and able to download .AVI TV shows recorded in HD/5.1 via **********. File size is 350MB for HD and 700MB for HD with 5.1 sound for a 1 hour TV show with all commericals removed. Shows look GREAT!


This HTPC/MEC is only used in the family room for TV/DVD or surfing web. Other PC's for general use.


Most of the hardware was purchased at NewEGG.


I hope this answeres your questions on my configuration.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you either don't have D* or E*, OR, you don't care about integrating OTA, there are a fair number of tv's out there now with dual RF antenna inputs. Typically one is marked "air" and one cable, but from what I've read, most of them will accept an ATSC signal in either or both, just that only one is QAM compatible for cable. So you could hook an antenna into each one aimed in different directions.



That's another possibility. But your original post suggested inputting both to the TV and having the TV make the decision about which input gives the better signal on a particular channel. I don't think TV manus are going to put that kind of logic into their OTA receiver and there was an easier way for me.


For me it was easier to just sum multiple OTA sources into one cable and have the "best" from both. But if the two OTA inputs work for you, great.


----------



## Valnar

I have unencrypted local channels available to me on both my Cable/QAM as well as OTA ATSC. The broadcast towers in Parma are only 5-6 miles from my house.


Visually, I can't tell a difference. But I read somewhere once that cable companies tend to compress the "original" (ATSC) stream further so that the quality of QAM may not be as good as ATSC. My cable company in North Royalton is Wide Open West.


Is there any way I can tell with a stream analyzer or other such free software if there is any additional compression added to my QAM channels? Or do any WOW customers in Cleveland already know the answer? Is there an objective analysis I can perform on whether I should use ATSC or QAM if I want the best quality? From a signal strength perspective, I can get OTA or QAM equally well.


Thanks,

Robert


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have unencrypted local channels available to me on both my Cable/QAM as well as OTA ATSC. The broadcast towers in Parma are only 5-6 miles from my house.
> 
> 
> Visually, I can't tell a difference. But I read somewhere once that cable companies tend to compress the "original" (ATSC) stream further so that the quality of QAM may not be as good as ATSC. My cable company in North Royalton is Wide Open West.
> 
> 
> Is there any way I can tell with a stream analyzer or other such free software if there is any additional compression added to my QAM channels? Or do any WOW customers in Cleveland already know the answer? Is there an objective analysis I can perform on whether I should use ATSC or QAM if I want the best quality? From a signal strength perspective, I can get OTA or QAM equally well.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert



I analyzed WOW's HD QAM channels a couple weeks ago and I could not find a difference in bandwidth between OTA and WOW's QAM. I have the OnAir USB GT tuner and TSReader Standard. I did some charting of the bandwidths of the local channels OTA vs. WOW and could not see a difference. I've also never seen a visual difference flipping between my OTA tuner and cable box.


Keep in mind that WOIO (CBS) has WeatherNow, so they've already compromised their PQ at the source (approx 2Mbps fixed is allocated to weather). WKYC (NBC) has WeatherPlus which compromises their PQ at the source (variable, up to 4.5Mbps is allocated to weather).


I think we're pretty lucky with WOW as a provider - I've read posts from TWC users in other parts of the country about their bandwidth shaping and reduced HD PQ. I don't know if TWC is doing that in the Cleveland area.


----------



## hookbill

To the best of my knowledge the only one who compresses HD local signals are D*. This debate about what's better ota v cable has been long going and there is no proof that at least around here any cable companies compress their HD signals.


----------



## Valnar

That's good to know. Thanks guys.


Yah, I've been happy with WOW ever since they were Americast. Compared to the alternative (Adelphia), it was a no brainer. Their cablemodem service is great too.


I guess I'll ditch the antenna.


Robert


----------



## joepic

Hitachi Global Storage Technologies said on Thursday that it will come out with a 3.5-inch-diameter 1 terabyte drive for desktops in the first quarter, then follow up in the *second quarter with 3.5-inch terabyte drives for digital video recorders, bundled with software called Audio-Visual Storage Manager for easier retrieval of data, and corporate storage systems.*

The *Deskstar 7K1000 will cost $399* when it comes out. That comes to about *40 cents a gigabyte*.


A terabyte is a trillion bytes, or a million megabytes, or 1,000 gigabytes, as measured by the hard-drive industry. (There are actually two conventions for calculating megabytes, but this is how the drive industry counts it.) As a reference, the print collection in the *Library of Congress comes to about 10 terabytes of information*, according to the How Much Information study from U.C. Berkeley. The report also found that *400,000 terabytes of e-mail get produced per year.* About *50,000 trees would be necessary to create enough paper to hold a terabyte of information,* according to the report.


Who needs this sort of storage capacity? You will, eventually, said Doug Pickford, director of market and product strategy at Hitachi. Demand for data storage capacity at corporations continues to grow, and it shows no sign of abating. A single terabyte drive takes up less space than four 250GB drives, which lets IT managers conserve on computing room real estate. The *drive can hold about 330,000 3MB photos or 250,000 MP3s*, according to Hitachi's math.


Consumers, meanwhile, are gobbling up more drive capacity because of content like video. *An hour of standard video takes up about 1GB, while an hour of high-definition video sucks up 4GB,* Pickford said.


The *hard drive turned 50 last year*, and over the past five decades data capacity has increased at a fairly regular and rapid pace. The *first drive, which came with the RAMAC computer, weighed about a ton and held 5MB of data.*


----------



## hookbill

Read about it earlier in the TiVo Forum. Man, that's some storage.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge the only one who compresses HD local signals are D*. This debate about what's better ota v cable has been long going and there is no proof that at least around here any cable companies compress their HD signals.



I think E* does too (but no Cleve HD locals yet)


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge the only one who compresses HD local signals are D*. This debate about what's better ota v cable has been long going and there is no proof that at least around here any cable companies compress their HD signals.



While it is probably equipment differences, SA8300HD v HR20 rather than compression issues, the PQ on the HD channels are significantly crisper on D*.


----------



## Inundated

I'll believe "19 Action News" in HD when I see it.










Why are locals doing it and not the network? Locals are, I presume, more willing to put on a news show that's only in HD in the studio...? Even WKYC does field video in 16:9 SD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While it is probably equipment differences, SA8300HD v HR20 rather than compression issues, the PQ on the HD channels are significantly crisper on D*.



I'll take your word for it Terry, but I gotta tell you I read a hell of alot of complaints about D* locals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll believe "19 Action News" in HD when I see it.



That's how I feel too. Don't hold your breath. Anyway, I'm not too sure I want an HD picture on some of there reporters.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Noticed last night that Armstrong in Medina has added MTV-HD and A&E-HD. They've also fixed the guide problem for NFL-HD and others.


Now if they would just add ESPN2-HD, we'd be all set.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll take your word for it Terry, but I gotta tell you I read a hell of alot of complaints about D* locals.



Yeah, I don't notice much of a difference (better or worse) with the locals. Yes the HD locals have been a big problem for D*, but that seems to be a region by region issue. I haven't heard complaints in the local Cincy forum and so far so good for me.


Now as far as national HD channels go, I believe the picture is better with my D* equipment. Although I never had the pleasure of owning a S3 with cable so it's hard for me to say if it is equipment or TWC's transmission.


----------



## Cathode Kid

I've seen the locals on D* in my area and they're pretty horrid - especially on a dissolve. Loads of MPEG artifacts.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Keep your eyes peeled on the WEWS 6pm and 11pm newscasts Sunday 1/7/07. There could be a sudden boost in resolution.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Keep your eyes peeled on the WEWS 6pm and 11pm newscasts Sunday 1/7/07. There could be a sudden boost in resolution.



As early as 6?










It had been reported at a certain local media blog that it would start with the 11 PM show tonight...and they're apparently going back to the "circle 5" logo!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As early as 6?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It had been reported at a certain local media blog that it would start with the 11 PM show tonight...and they're apparently going back to the "circle 5" logo!



That circle logo is what most ABC affiliates use. Now that I think about it channel 9 in Cincinnati, another Scripts broadcaster didn't use it either.


If I'm wrong on that one Terryfoster will be around shortly to correct me.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As early as 6?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It had been reported at a certain local media blog that it would start with the 11 PM show tonight...and they're apparently going back to the "circle 5" logo!



Yes, possibly 6pm. I'm sure it will depend on how their testing and/or rehearsals go.

I like the Circle-5 logo better than the rectanguar "letterhead" logo. I think it's friendlier and more distinctive.


**Edit**

Ok, looks like it's official now according to their website.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS is up with "NewsChannel5 HD" graphics and such...but is still actually in SD. Wouldn't it be funny if they forgot to flip the switch!


----------



## HDTD

Anyone happen to have any screen shots of WEWS HD news? I mean they are on our side and all


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone happen to have any screen shots of WEWS HD news? I mean they are on our side and all



I did record the 6 PM show, but it wasn't in HD - it had all the new graphics and "HD" over everything, but it was still in SD. I suspect the HD won't debut until 11.


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry I have not replied sooner. Off for the holidays and now just getting back to reading this forum.
> 
> 
> [snip . . .]
> 
> 
> I hope this answeres your questions on my configuration.



That sounds like a really nice setup. I am just a poor college student trying to do things as cheaply as possible







.


I am looking at adding in 5.1 surround sound though. My onboard sound supports 5.1 surround and I have been wondering how the best way to set it up is. Do I need some sort of a converter? Can I get away with a set of $50 5.1 computer speakers for a roughly 15 x 15 room?


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> while an hour of high-definition video sucks up 4GB, Pickford said.



I wish it were only that much. I usually run 6-7GB / hr. recording off an OTA signal. 140GB does not last long at that rate. I for one am ready for a 1TB drive.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS is up and running in HD news.


They seem to have some glitches with SD video, tho! Nothing major, but something they'll probably fix at some point.


----------



## Cathode Kid

They must've been working really hard on this transition. The chief engineer looked really tired!


----------



## Inundated

The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.


The glitch was appearing as almost "sound level" black bars shooting up from the lower graphics area. After the apparent "reboot", it went away...and even my SA8000HD caught up eventually. (That cackle is coming from Hookbill and his TiVo S3, no doubt.







)


----------



## paule123

WEWS inaugural HD news @ 11pm screen caps:


----------



## paule123

Graphics still look SD. Ironically, Angie Lau's piece on the HD transition was in SD.


I'm kinda liking the stretchovision on SD material instead of HD pillarbars. They didn't do that in every case, though.


The weather radar in HD is a nice touch.


Overall, very nice job WEWS!


Edit: My compliments on having the Sunday sports show in HD. For some reason WKYC can't show the sports anchors in HD even though they appear to be a swing of the HD camera away.


Anybody get some Lee Jordan HD screen caps? She looked great, but I wasn't at the PC to grab any screen caps...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.
> 
> 
> The glitch was appearing as almost "sound level" black bars shooting up from the lower graphics area. After the apparent "reboot", it went away...and even my SA8000HD caught up eventually. (That cackle is coming from Hookbill and his TiVo S3, no doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



No, it wasn't me. I was sleeping at that time of the night, but no telling if the same thing would have happened to the S3. But reading this it would have been interesting to compare notes.


Anyway I'll check it out this afternoon on the 5 O'Clock news.


----------



## hookbill

Was anyone else as irritated as I was with WOIO and their constant breakins in SD about flooding? It seemed like they would have one every 15 minutes and they would take about 4 minutes to run completely through as they ran the full warning twice.


Compare that to WKYC who did a nice smooth transition, brought the picture down to letterbox and ran the scroll quickly, just one time and back to the show in HD. Plus they ran the warning less.


I understand the need to keep people informed but WOIO was way over the top and really ruined their HD broadcast on Friday.


----------



## JJkizak

Those anchors have to look good now because HD shows every wart, blemish, zit, etc. They have this new spray makeup I think they used on some older female anchors on another channel and it works because it goes on like flesh spray paint. It covers everything.

JJK


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those anchors have to look good now because HD shows every wart, blemish, zit, etc. They have this new spray makeup I think they used on some older female anchors on another channel and it works because it goes on like flesh spray paint. It covers everything.
> 
> JJK



Some of the biggest resistance to HD programming are the actors, actresses, and news anchors who don't want people to realize that, yes, they really DO look 51 years old.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.
> 
> 
> The glitch was appearing as almost "sound level" black bars shooting up from the lower graphics area. After the apparent "reboot", it went away...and even my SA8000HD caught up eventually. (That cackle is coming from Hookbill and his TiVo S3, no doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I just watched DVR playback (on an 8300) of the 11pm HD broadcast and I didn't see anything wrong. When did this reboot occur in the broadcast? I'll go back and look at it again.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those anchors have to look good now because HD shows every wart, blemish, zit, etc. They have this new spray makeup I think they used on some older female anchors on another channel and it works because it goes on like flesh spray paint. It covers everything.
> 
> JJK



Yep, that spray-on makeup really exists. Earl Scheib lives on...


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Graphics still look SD. Ironically, Angie Lau's piece on the HD transition was in SD.
> 
> 
> I'm kinda liking the stretchovision on SD material instead of HD pillarbars. They didn't do that in every case, though.
> 
> 
> The weather radar in HD is a nice touch.
> 
> 
> Overall, very nice job WEWS!
> 
> 
> Edit: My compliments on having the Sunday sports show in HD. For some reason WKYC can't show the sports anchors in HD even though they appear to be a swing of the HD camera away.
> 
> 
> Anybody get some Lee Jordan HD screen caps? She looked great, but I wasn't at the PC to grab any screen caps...



Stretchovision looked awful. I didn't get a chance to see the SD 5.0, but I'd imagine they saw it stretched off the screen. I think that had to be an upconverter mistake, because sports was side flagged with the annoying 5 logos.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's good to know. Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> Yah, I've been happy with WOW ever since they were Americast. Compared to the alternative (Adelphia), it was a no brainer. Their cablemodem service is great too.
> 
> 
> I guess I'll ditch the antenna.
> 
> 
> Robert



If I were you I would not be so fast to ditch the antenna. There may come a time when:

1. the local station and WOW has an impasse where they have to pull the station (happened to COX with FOX 8 several years ago)

2. A new subchannel service is added to the OTA but not carrried by cable

3. A new station goes on line digitally (WBNS and WVPX). You'll get the digital signal OTA immediately while there may take the cableco some time to add the new service.


An aside: there are times when you cang receive stations OTA that are not carried on cable (such as WKBN-DT from Youngstown). I get WKBN-DT 24/7 here in Parma. Most of North Royalton is on high ground as well. It's nice to be able to get an alternitive CBS and FOX station (SD FOX on a subchannel) especially during football season


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just watched DVR playback (on an 8300) of the 11pm HD broadcast and I didn't see anything wrong. When did this reboot occur in the broadcast? I'll go back and look at it again.



A quick run through the show and I can't find the "lockup" point at least in FF'ing. It must have only been "live".


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.



WEWS-DT is the only channel I've seen where part of the

screen will freeze... happened twice on Monday's 11pm news...

first time at the bottom, second time in the middle...

then the whole screen freezes and the audio disappears for

30 seconds or so... guessing they're rebooting something...


their switches from satellite HD to upconverted SD to the

news switcher HD also give me about a half screen of green

with a pop in the audio...


Ed...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEWS-DT is the only channel I've seen where part of the
> 
> screen will freeze... happened twice on Monday's 11pm news...
> 
> first time at the bottom, second time in the middle...
> 
> then the whole screen freezes and the audio disappears for
> 
> 30 seconds or so... guessing they're rebooting something...
> 
> 
> their switches from satellite HD to upconverted SD to the
> 
> news switcher HD also give me about a half screen of green
> 
> with a pop in the audio...
> 
> 
> Ed...



The 5 pm news yesterday was a mess. At around 5:25 they went to commercial and the screen locked up. You could hear the commercials but just a blurry picture frozen. Then it went to a gray screen, no sound. I put on FOX 8 for 5 minutes and went back to WEWS. It was then mostly a green screen with a distored blue on the corner, vocals clear. The weather started and they mentioned their HD radar and how great it was, which it is, but you couldn't see it. I can't believe they didn't know they were having problems. I switched back to FOX 8 and about 5:50 switched again to WEWS. Everything from that point was fine.


They definitely need to tweek this broadcast. When it works it's good but when it doesn't, man it's bad.


----------



## JJkizak

Same problems OTA with WEWS. Also noticed that they are stretch-zooming a lot of the SD stuff making people look fat. I no likeey that.


JJK


----------



## HDTD

Looks like WEWS could use a good, detailed lesson in OAR. My oh my, I DVR'd both the HD and SD newscasts and it's really embarrassing. Stretch-O-Vision is so bad that even full screen graphics (which should have HD safe title markers when created) are way off the screen in the SD world.


Honestly, why go HD if you're going to muck everything up and have the show look worse!


When they did get aspect ratio correct with upconverted SD material and pillared the 4:3 image with blue logos, you could clearly see the artwork encroaching on the screen edges in the SD world.


Just sloppy all around. Although it's a move in the right direction, they clearly could have used a lot more practice. We have to applaud them for making the move to HD, but what's the sense if only studio cameras and a handful of graphic elements are true OAR HD. I know it's a ratings race to say "We're HD, look at us," but my oh my it's awful.


I wish Cleveland stations would take a cue from someone like ESPN's Sportscenter and commit to HD. They're HD from top to bottom, where if there's a game being broadcast in HD, or even SD 16:9, they can record it, edit and playback all in HD.


True HD acquisition of content is probably the next race in Cleveland news. I'm not picking on WEWS alone, even WKYC/STO couldn't get their own HD sports highlights in HD on their newscasts.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same problems OTA with WEWS. Also noticed that they are stretch-zooming a lot of the SD stuff making people look fat. I no likeey that.
> 
> 
> JJK



WEWS is doing "stretch-o-vision" differently on live remote shots. Last night they showed the OSU students at the "party" in the arena. When the camera panned the audience you could see the distortions along the sides, however when the camera stood still anything in the center looked normal (i.e. not fat).


I tried to post here yesterday about the freeze-ups I experienced on my 921 when the live WEWS newscast was on, however this site had a few glitches of it's own (server busy error). The first lock-up happened Sunday during the story about the fatal fire in Westlake. Last night I got horizontal stripe of colored hash across the middle of the picture (blotting Stephanie Shafer's face out







).


They need to do some serious tweaking ASAP! (unless they were sold a bad processor). Most of the glitches happen whenever an overlay graphic is shown.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody else getting a jumpy picture on FSN-HD during the Blue Jacket's game tonight? Seems like the picture is stopping and starting every couple of seconds. Commercials are fine, wouldn't you know?


Watching on Armstrong on Medina, by the way.


----------



## Inundated

Glad to see I'm not the only one having problems with WEWS' graphic glitches. It happened again during the noon newscast today. The glitches are even locking up my Fusion5USB HDTV tuner!


They are as described above.


Just flipped on FSN Ohio HD's BlueJackets game a couple of minutes ago via TWC "HD Bonus" channel, and haven't seen any jumping in that short amount of time. The picture looks sharper than the INHD broadcast of the NHL game on "Versus"...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Glad to see I'm not the only one having problems with WEWS' graphic glitches. It happened again during the noon newscast today. The glitches are even locking up my Fusion5USB HDTV tuner!
> 
> 
> They are as described above.



Tonight after the News at 5 I had it on the ABC evening news and there was a lock up. Sound continued after a bit but picture stayed frozen. I changed channels and it was fine.


----------



## akron05

Has anyone else noticed that WFMJ-21 analog has a much weaker signal than usual tonight?


----------



## hookbill

Just my opinion but it seems to me and I guess it should be expected FOX 8 is the leader in quality of viewing (not necessarily news) of the three HD local news. Followed by WKYC and last WEWS.


I don't record or really even watch the local news, usually it's on as "background" while I'm doing other things but I do glance over from time to time. I figure WJW is best for two reasons, experience and also it's nice to have a major networks money behind you. But I still prefer WEWS in the afternoon because I find WJW simply annoying. But when you have frozen pictures and broadcast that sends me back to WJW.


I really wish WKYC would move Dr. Phil to some other time of the day so their news would compete with the other two local news.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just my opinion but it seems to me and I guess it should be expected FOX 8 is the leader in quality of viewing (not necessarily news) of the three HD local news. Followed by WKYC and last WEWS.
> 
> 
> I don't record or really even watch the local news, usually it's on as "background" while I'm doing other things but I do glance over from time to time. I figure WJW is best for two reasons, experience and also it's nice to have a major networks money behind you. But I still prefer WEWS in the afternoon because I find WJW simply annoying. But when you have frozen pictures and broadcast that sends me back to WJW.
> 
> 
> I really wish WKYC would move Dr. Phil to some other time of the day so their news would compete with the other two local news.




I agree...Fox 8's kinda taken it easy though. They have their formula down and don't deviate from it. SD 16:9 live shots, 4:3 taped "pillared" video and all studio stuff HD 16:9. It's not above and beyond, but at the very least it's clean. What's gets me is that their show open is still 4:3 with defocussed edges. You'd think they'd have made a new show open. Probably spent too much time/resources/money on the first to care about making a new one.


----------



## JJkizak

My OTA Sony 46" 1080P shows channel 3 live news as razor sharp, channel 8 a very, very, very, close second and channel 5 a distant 3rd. Channel 5 also is a bit on the soft gausian blur side of things. Channel 19 live football is the same as or better than channel 8 and sunday night football is the sharpest when they decide to get things in focus. Channel 5 was showing the color side bars on the SD tonight for some stuff.

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My OTA Sony 46" 1080P shows channel 3 live news as razor sharp, channel 8 a very, very, very, close second and channel 5 a distant 3rd. Channel 5 also is a bit on the soft gausian blur side of things



I'd have to agree almost exactly with your rankings, based on my 32" 720P LCD set.


For whatever reason, 5's weather folks look softer than the news anchors. Susanne and Mark look almost out of focus at times...maybe they need to "save the sharpness" for the HD radar?










Heh.


----------



## dleising

Hey what is the best indoor HD antenna? I currently live in Portage County near Kent and am using a regular amplified rabbit ears. No channels 3, 8, 19, 25. For some reason I have no trouble getting channel 5. And I have absolutely NO trouble receiving the Shop at Home network...the tower is right down the road! Figures, eh? I also have a directional antenna on my roof I am thinking of "resurrecting" but I don't know which way to point it for optimal performance. I'd also like to try to get the Y-town stations. I can somewhat get WKBN/WBCB/WYFX without much trouble. If someone could give me some insight it would be appreciated. This is a really cool forum, ill probably stick around. I have cable but don't want to get another box. Thanks!


----------



## Lighting Guy

First and best place to start is www.antennaweb.org and put in your address. It will give you the locations of the towers around you, distance and degree. Good Luck.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey what is the best indoor HD antenna? I currently live in Portage County near Kent and am using a regular amplified rabbit ears. No channels 3, 8, 19, 25. For some reason I have no trouble getting channel 5. And I have absolutely NO trouble receiving the Shop at Home network...the tower is right down the road! Figures, eh? I also have a directional antenna on my roof I am thinking of "resurrecting" but I don't know which way to point it for optimal performance. I'd also like to try to get the Y-town stations. I can somewhat get WKBN/WBCB/WYFX without much trouble. If someone could give me some insight it would be appreciated. This is a really cool forum, ill probably stick around. I have cable but don't want to get another box. Thanks!



With an outdoor antenna in Kent you'll probably get WYTV in Youngstown in addition to the others. It might be borderline.


And you should get everything in Cleveland/Akron depending on the type and size antenna. Except WVIZ-digital. You have to be about 10 feet from their transmitter in Parma to pick it up.


----------



## dleising

LOL, thats what I figured. Guess Ill have to get on the roof and start fiddling...

I tried buying all of those fancy antennas and ended up returning because they are no different than rabbit ears, at least for me. And about 60 bucks more...


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL, thats what I figured. Guess Ill have to get on the roof and start fiddling...
> 
> I tried buying all of those fancy antennas and ended up returning because they are no different than rabbit ears, at least for me. And about 60 bucks more...



To me, this statement tells me that you do not have a direct path to any of the stations (except maybe 19) and are picking everything up via a multipath (or a very strong single) reflection. Probably the only thing that would help from your location is more height.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For whatever reason, 5's weather folks look softer than the news anchors. Susanne and Mark look almost out of focus at times...maybe they need to "save the sharpness" for the HD radar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh.



I've noticed that also. It looks like a simple focusing error. Either the camera operator on the floor has a monitor that's too small to determine focus or they're deliberately defocusing that shot to keep their Ultimatte from keying on fabric patterns in the talent's clothes.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To me, this statement tells me that you do not have a direct path to any of the stations (except maybe 19) and are picking everything up via a multipath (or a very strong single) reflection. Probably the only thing that would help from your location is more height.



I agree with k2rj. I live on the east side of Kent and just installed a Winegard SensarIII(amplified) up on the roof. My only problem is I have very tall trees along the line of sight to the Parma antenna farm. I am able to get a good digital signal from channel 3, 5(fair), 17, 21, 27, 49, 61, 67. I cannot get the digital 8 or 19 for some reason. I can get the analogs decent however. I plan on installing an amplifier/ distributor, but I don't know if it will help me. I'm sure the spring when the leaves come out my reception will get worse too. Unfortunately the trees I need to get over are a good 20' taller than my 2 story house so it would take an awfully long mast to get over those (and look silly on my house too). According to antennaweb, I'm only 23 miles from those Cleveland stations. As long as you have a good line of sight (no trees or tall buildings) in the direction antennaweb says you should point, you should do OK. Make sure your roof top has a powered pre-amp with it. Those are best matched for the distance you need to pick up. If not you can get a Channel Master pre-amp at Lowe's.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with k2rj. I live on the east side of Kent and just installed a Winegard SensarIII(amplified) up on the roof. My only problem is I have very tall trees along the line of sight to the Parma antenna farm. I am able to get a good digital signal from channel 3, 5(fair), 17, 21, 27, 49, 61, 67. I cannot get the digital 8 or 19 for some reason. I can get the analogs decent however. I plan on installing an amplifier/ distributor, but I don't know if it will help me. I'm sure the spring when the leaves come out my reception will get worse too. Unfortunately the trees I need to get over are a good 20' taller than my 2 story house so it would take an awfully long mast to get over those (and look silly on my house too). According to antennaweb, I'm only 23 miles from those Cleveland stations. As long as you have a good line of sight (no trees or tall buildings) in the direction antennaweb says you should point, you should do OK. Make sure your roof top has a powered pre-amp with it. Those are best matched for the distance you need to pick up. If not you can get a Channel Master pre-amp at Lowe's.



You could get a 50 foot high tower.


----------



## quadmandan97

Is anyone having a problem with the Fox 8 signal via ota. I have been having problems since Monday on my HR10-250. It was fine yesterday and I had a strong steady 90 on the signal meter. Today I'm barely getting a signal. I thought maybe they were doing some work at the station. I live in Cuyahoga Falls.


Thanks, Dan


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You could get a 50 foot high tower.



I know! OR A CHAINSAW! Actually the chainsaw is sounding better and better.


----------



## dleising

I dont think I need a 50' tower, or a forest destruction.










Ill just play around with the antenna that I have and well see. Weird how I get 5 fine with rabbit ears, PTXer gets it fair. We are not far from each other. U'd think we should be able to get 19 at least concidering the others at least come in...


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dont think I need a 50' tower, or a forest destruction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ill just play around with the antenna that I have and well see. Weird how I get 5 fine with rabbit ears, PTXer gets it fair. We are not far from each other. U'd think we should be able to get 19 at least concidering the others at least come in...



WOIO's digital signal is notably weaker than the rest, even by VHF standards (since WOIO digital is actually RF channel 10) because they have to make sure they don't interfere with CPFL analog Channel 10 in London, Ontario. You won't have much luck with even an outdoor antenna once you get south of North Canton or east of Ravenna.


----------



## hookbill

Yesterday during the News @ 5 on WEWS I didn't see any major problems, other then the annoying stretch o vision. However this morning when I got up my TV happened to be on WEWS and they had picture, no sound.


Seems like they still got some things to work out. I kind of wonder if they rushed this a bit, just too many errors, frozen pictures, sound drop outs.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO's digital signal is notably weaker than the rest, even by VHF standards (since WOIO digital is actually RF channel 10) because they have to make sure they don't interfere with CPFL analog Channel 10 in London, Ontario. You won't have much luck with even an outdoor antenna once you get south of North Canton or east of Ravenna.



And I can't even pick up channel 8 digital at all either. Very strange. Channel 3's digital stations come in the best for me. Since these transmitters are all in the same "immediate" area does this suggest my antenna is not doing very well at some frequencies or is Fox8 on the weaker side of signal strength too?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And I can't even pick up channel 8 digital at all either. Very strange. Channel 3's digital stations come in the best for me. Since these transmitters are all in the same "immediate" area does this suggest my antenna is not doing very well at some frequencies or is Fox8 on the weaker side of signal strength too?



I really don't know that much about OTA but I do read a great deal and I think that if you live all the way out in Kent you shouldn't be surprised that you have trouble pulling in some signals. Honestly I'm amazed that you can get what you can get.


With all the obstacles out there, wireless phones, landscapes, sunspots etc. I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.


----------



## JJkizak

In my opinion OTA people have to use the "overwhelmation technique" to get something reliable going. Huge antenna, great height, great location, great equipment, multipath elimination circuitry, quick lock on circuitry, and low loss lead-in and components. The good stuff is available but your monetary dedication will be tested. The first step is to get someone out to your domicile to see where the best reception is with one of those magic grid dip meters. A cherry picker would be a nice touch.


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In my opinion OTA people have to use the "overwhelmation technique" to get something reliable going. Huge antenna, great height, great location, great equipment, multipath elimination circuitry, quick lock on circuitry, and low loss lead-in and components. The good stuff is available but your monetary dedication will be tested. The first step is to get someone out to your domicile to see where the best reception is with one of those magic grid dip meters. A cherry picker would be a nice touch.
> 
> 
> JJK




um....wow.










Seems like quite a hassle to me. I'm overwhelmed just reading what you wrote.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.



I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV. If I want HD stations through the cable, I'm going to have to shell out almost $50 a month! I've currently got $80 invested in my OTA components. Why do I need HD? Because its available I guess. One comparison between an old analog transmission and a digital HD transmission and no one would want the old standard. Perhaps when the analog phase out happens, digital and HD will go hand in hand and the basic "lifeline" service available for $11 a month will be all HD signals. Still, the investment with OTA equipment will payback and save money, just not as fast. The possibility though is the de-emphasis of broadcasting OTA. Its alot harder to watch a poor digital signal than an analog one, so more people will probably turn to cable after the changeover. Will the broadcasters use technology to improve OTA reception? Who knows. I am really surprised I get what I get OTA too, but I still have to fall back to analog stations occasionally. Hookbill, your last words summed it up - more power to us! Please!


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by hookbill
> 
> I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.
> 
> 
> I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV.



I use OTA because I don't want to spend a lot of money on cable. I went to much more effort to build my HTPC and get the software running correctly than I did to buy an antenna and put it on my roof. I would rather do that than have to pay TWC a monthy fee for a bunch of channels that I will never watch. Maybe I would feel differently if I had more disposable income, but for now the effort of putting up an antenna was a small amount of trouble compared to the money I am saving compared to cable.


I have a large antenna, more cable than I need, no preamp and good enough reception to have a perfect picture on all of the Cleveland stations even though my antenna is pointed straight at a bunch of trees. I can get the Youngstown stations too if I turn my antenna but it is either or for me







.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really don't know that much about OTA but I do read a great deal and I think that if you live all the way out in Kent you shouldn't be surprised that you have trouble pulling in some signals. Honestly I'm amazed that you can get what you can get.
> 
> 
> With all the obstacles out there, wireless phones, landscapes, sunspots etc. I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.



Benefits of OTA-


-Free

-If you can pick them up, you can often get out-of-market stations (Youngstown for us, generally, or Toledo if you're in Lorain, Huron, or Erie Counties) that cable doesn't carry

-Generally slightly better picture and audio quality (or significantly better audio in some cases IIRC some cable providers don't pass 5.1 audio)


My uncle lives in eastern Stark County and can get everything except WOIO from Cleveland and the big three in Y-town no problem. It depends more on terrain and trees than distance from towers (until you get about 70 miles out then you're usually S.O.L. no matter what!)


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV. If I want HD stations through the cable, I'm going to have to shell out almost $50 a month! I've currently got $80 invested in my OTA components. Why do I need HD? Because its available I guess. One comparison between an old analog transmission and a digital HD transmission and no one would want the old standard. Perhaps when the analog phase out happens, digital and HD will go hand in hand and the basic "lifeline" service available for $11 a month will be all HD signals. Still, the investment with OTA equipment will payback and save money, just not as fast. The possibility though is the de-emphasis of broadcasting OTA. Its alot harder to watch a poor digital signal than an analog one, so more people will probably turn to cable after the changeover. Will the broadcasters use technology to improve OTA reception? Who knows. I am really surprised I get what I get OTA too, but I still have to fall back to analog stations occasionally. Hookbill, your last words summed it up - more power to us! Please!



I like being able to pick up Youngstown stations too and none of the Summit County cables systems carry any of them, although they did until the mid 80s or so. Just for more variety, I realize network stuff will be identical, but it's nice having an alternative. As a side note I like the syndicated reruns on the Youngstown affiliates (and the subchannels) better than what the Cleveland stations run. The Y-town affiliates have a better selection it seems.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV. If I want HD stations through the cable, I'm going to have to shell out almost $50 a month! I've currently got $80 invested in my OTA components. Why do I need HD? Because its available I guess. One comparison between an old analog transmission and a digital HD transmission and no one would want the old standard. Perhaps when the analog phase out happens, digital and HD will go hand in hand and the basic "lifeline" service available for $11 a month will be all HD signals. Still, the investment with OTA equipment will payback and save money, just not as fast. The possibility though is the de-emphasis of broadcasting OTA. Its alot harder to watch a poor digital signal than an analog one, so more people will probably turn to cable after the changeover. Will the broadcasters use technology to improve OTA reception? Who knows. I am really surprised I get what I get OTA too, but I still have to fall back to analog stations occasionally. Hookbill, your last words summed it up - more power to us! Please!



Your answer makes a great deal of sense to me. If I didn't watch alot of television I would agree with you. Why waste your money?


In my case I do watch alot of television and not just OTA shows but shows that are available on FX, HBO, SCI FI, USA. You get where I'm going. Now I know many people say "rent the DVD" but these cable/sat channels are great when the networks arn't.


And as I pointed out I live in a heavily wooded area with some rolling hills and tough terrain. I can't get satellite so while expensive, cable is the way to go for me. And I don't knock you guys at all for what you spend. Heck, my S3 cost me close to a thousand bucks with exteneded warranty and three year service.


My wife and I use it though, and I feel it's the best way to go for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like being able to pick up Youngstown stations too and none of the Summit County cables systems carry any of them, although they did until the mid 80s or so. Just for more variety, I realize network stuff will be identical, but it's nice having an alternative. As a side note I like the syndicated reruns on the Youngstown affiliates (and the subchannels) better than what the Cleveland stations run. The Y-town affiliates have a better selection it seems.



To each his own. I on the other hand like being able to get the cable only stations for greater variety. Plus I get the sense from you that it's kind of like a hobby, sort of "let's see what I can pull in today." Hey, that makes total sense to me. Enjoy.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To each his own. I on the other hand like being able to get the cable only stations for greater variety. Plus I get the sense from you that it's kind of like a hobby, sort of "let's see what I can pull in today." Hey, that makes total sense to me. Enjoy.



Good point. It is a hobby. Although it's also nice to have a better selection for football games.


----------



## DaveKennett

dleisling,


I live in North Ridgeville, and I get all Cleveland fine through MANY tall trees (except WVIZ).


I am a ham radio operator, and am retired from a career in broadcasting.


Here are my suggestions for antenna installation:

1. If there are hills between you and the station, you may need to have a fairly high antenna. This is rarely the case in these parts.

2. It will probably be advantageous to get a fairly high gain antenna at your location.

3. VERY IMPORTANT - use top notch cable like a premium RG6.

4. If you use an amplifier, it MUST be located at the antenna BEFORE cable losses.

5. You will probably need a rotor for precision aiming (with Youngstown as a bonus). The higher gain the antenna, the more precisely it must be aimed.


Good luck! Oh, amplified rabbit ears are usually worse than no amplification. There is negligable cable loss - not much cable. Signal quality is determined by the FIRST amplifier in the receiving chain, and the amplifiers in low-cost rabbit ears are likely to be inferior to the first amplifier inside your receiver. The real advantage to an amplifier AT the antenna, is that the signal is stronger there than after going through a length of cable. Just to emphasize - cable quality is MOST important at the higher UHF frequencies.


Dave


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveKennett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dleisling,
> 
> Signal quality is determined by the FIRST amplifier in the receiving chain, and the amplifiers in low-cost rabbit ears are likely to be inferior to the first amplifier inside your receiver. The real advantage to an amplifier AT the antenna, is that the signal is stronger there than after going through a length of cable. Just to emphasize - cable quality is MOST important at the higher UHF frequencies.



Dave, would a secondary amplifier (after the pre-amp) help or is that just to make up for even longer cable runs, say due to splitters? I am considering getting an amplified splitter (don't necessarily need the splitter right now, but if the amp would help...).


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dont think I need a 50' tower, or a forest destruction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ill just play around with the antenna that I have and well see. Weird how I get 5 fine with rabbit ears, PTXer gets it fair. We are not far from each other. U'd think we should be able to get 19 at least concidering the others at least come in...




I'll have to agree with a few of the others, the Amplified Rabbit ears are pretty much the same, I cannot find a pair to pull in 3 or 5 from north Central Lake County, but they seem to do a fairly decent job on the UHF out of Cleveland from the farm (with the exception of 25).


I finally upgraded to a wind twisted Attic Antenna, I salvaged for my upstairs sets







seems to work great, all watchable (analog)


Add an amp you say??


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To each his own. I on the other hand like being able to get the cable only stations for greater variety. Plus I get the sense from you that it's kind of like a hobby, sort of "let's see what I can pull in today." Hey, that makes total sense to me. Enjoy.



Unfortunately in these times in our down economy, I can't see TV becoming a Utility, & would be compelled to watch 24/7 if I was paying $50/mo for Television! Seems like the "Magic" of local Television independents is all gone. If it ever comes down to no OTA signal, which is what Time Warner wants & cable, I guess there is always DVD's to rent. I'm still a bit nervous when ODOT installs their Noise barriers how it may affect my signal.


My brother who Lives in the Miami/Dade, Ft Lauderdale area, was able to pull in close to 45 plus channels with rabbit ears, yet just said it "all comes in on the cable anyway", only $60 a month... though to me that's still a lot of money.


TV DX'ing is sort of an old Hobby too, amongst being a former Ham Op.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Benefits of OTA-
> 
> 
> -Free
> 
> -If you can pick them up, you can often get out-of-market stations (Youngstown for us, generally, or Toledo if you're in Lorain, Huron, or Erie Counties) that cable doesn't carry
> 
> -Generally slightly better picture and audio quality (or significantly better audio in some cases IIRC some cable providers don't pass 5.1 audio)
> 
> 
> My uncle lives in eastern Stark County and can get everything except WOIO from Cleveland and the big three in Y-town no problem. It depends more on terrain and trees than distance from towers (until you get about 70 miles out then you're usually S.O.L. no matter what!)




The Farm seems to favor the beaming to the south it seems, but looking at Toledo's patterns it seems like 25% of their signal ends out in the lake anyway, I'm still 26-28 miles out but still have great diffulities.


True, a lot better picture with an OTA Signal!


----------



## Bismarck440

Assuming I have a 1366x768 Widescreen HD, What would be the best setting for a HDMI upconvertable DVD Player.... 1280x720P or 1920x1080i?


----------



## hookbill

That's not true. Whatever comes out of the air through the cable goes out the same. We get Dolby 5.1 not only on OtA but on stations like ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, DISCOVERY, IHND, HDNet and HDnet movies Also when the Tribe is in HD at home we get Dolby 5.1. Well, actually it's 5.0 but they say it's 5.1.


And as far as picture quality I can't say because I don't have OTA but it's seem to have been the feeling around here that unless your a real vidophile you really can't see any difference between OTA and cable.


Getting back to the Tribe. All home games, in HD. Now try that OTA.







You can only do it like 20 games a year.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's not true. Whatever comes out of the air through the cable goes out the same. We get Dolby 5.1 not only on OtA but on stations like ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, DISCOVERY, IHND, HDNet and HDnet movies Also when the Tribe is in HD at home we get Dolby 5.1. Well, actually it's 5.0 but they say it's 5.1.
> 
> 
> And as far as picture quality I can't say because I don't have OTA but it's seem to have been the feeling around here that unless your a real vidophile you really can't see any difference between OTA and cable.



In theory with Digital that's true, should be no change in picture quality, from OTA or Cable, analog is another story though. The cable I have seen in my area at least looked grainy or fuzzy campared to a good OTA setup, even the kids that delivered my fathers TV years ago commented what a great picture.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First and best place to start is www.antennaweb.org and put in your address. It will give you the locations of the towers around you, distance and degree. Good Luck.



Been using this site for reference, though in spotty areas the rules seem to go out the door, finding out just a few streets away from one site changes everything you may or may not need for your setup.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll have to agree with a few of the others, the Amplified Rabbit ears are pretty much the same, I cannot find a pair to pull in 3 or 5 from north Central Lake County, but they seem to do a fairly decent job on the UHF out of Cleveland from the farm (with the exception of 25).



There is a difference between antennas. However, I think the difference is a per house basis. You almost have to go out, buy 5 or 6 antennas. See which one has the best results and return the rest.


Going OTA is trial and error. I just wish I could get CBS more consistently. For a while it was coming in well, but now it's breaking up all the time.


----------



## dleising

Thats exactly what I have been doing. Unfortunately, my antenna has to be physically adjusted on the roof because the motor that rotates it has failed.










Im in for a fun ride if I want to get everything. But I do have more important things to do...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is a difference between antennas. However, I think the difference is a per house basis. You almost have to go out, buy 5 or 6 antennas. See which one has the best results and return the rest.
> 
> 
> Going OTA is trial and error. I just wish I could get CBS more consistently. For a while it was coming in well, but now it's breaking up all the time.


----------



## dtm1018

dleising, think how nice it would be to get it working and right now its nice outside so the roof should be pretty safe...


----------



## betterTHANdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Im in for a fun ride if I want to get everything. But I do have more important things to do...



Agreed. the ride is quite fun...but honestly...what in the world do you have that is better to do?


----------



## betterTHANdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtm1018* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dleising, think how nice it would be to get it working and right now its nice outside so the roof should be pretty safe...



dtm1018...you are a person with great people skills that most people dont even stop to recognize.....it was very nice of you to help out another forum-ite when he/she is in need of assistance. im sure that when dleising reads this, he will appreciate your advice greatly.....



**NOTE** this post may seem like a sarcastic comment, but it in no way was meant to be... i just like to point out model citizens when i see them.


----------



## akron05

Just talked with a guy on another board who lives all the way down in Tuscarawas County near Sugarcreek and he has a huge antenna setup with a rotator, on a VERY tall tower (probably 85 feet!) and he *claims* can get the following digitals pretty much 24/7 OTA:


WKYC Cleveland

WKBN Youngstown

WFMJ Youngstown (that surprised me)

WEWS Cleveland

WEAO Akron

WJW Cleveland

WTOV Steubenville

WOUC Cambridge

WUAB Cleveland

WOAC Canton (but who cares...)

WDLI Canton


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Assuming I have a 1366x768 Widescreen HD, What would be the best setting for a HDMI upconvertable DVD Player.... 1280x720P or 1920x1080i?



1280X720 since that's the native resolution of the TV. The extra 86 X 48 is essentially "under the edges" of the screen.


----------



## dleising

WOAC's tower is right down the road from me. I just realized it the other day passing the mailbox and it said "WOAC-TV". Boy it feels good to get such good Shop at Home reception.


----------



## betterTHANdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOAC's tower is right down the road from me. I just realized it the other day passing the mailbox and it said "WOAC-TV". Boy it feels good to get such good Shop at Home reception.



i bet that feels really good...


----------



## DaveKennett

PTXer,


Generally speaking - a poor amplifier is WORSE than none.


Heres what I would do:


1. Get good antenna and cable - maybe rotor. Try it!


2. Get good amplifier at antenna - probably with better UHF gain than VHF


This is what I have, and it is spit 4 ways. I do NOT have an additional amp. Put more $ into the amp at the antenna. One thing to watch, these remote amps have a power supply that plugs in, and feeds power back through the cable to the amp. You must EITHER split the signal AFTER the power unit, OR make sure to get a splitter that passes DC, or the power won't get up to the amp


Add a powered splitter if necessary. There are many cheapo amps out there that actually do more HARM than good.


Dave


----------



## PTXer

Dave,

Thanks for the advice. I was going for the unobtrusive look for the antenna. I have a Weingard GS2200 amplified antenna up on the roof. It is powered and I am using RG6 cable. The antenna is rated for the distance I am from the antenna farm, however, I have some very high trees just 30ft from the house. This is the main problem I am dealing with. I just am not sure a powered splitter will help my signal.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I was going for the unobtrusive look for the antenna. I have a Weingard GS2200 amplified antenna up on the roof. It is powered and I am using RG6 cable. The antenna is rated for the distance I am from the antenna farm, however, I have some very high trees just 30ft from the house. This is the main problem I am dealing with. I just am not sure a powered splitter will help my signal.



I have some tall trees roughly the same distance from my house, and I get all the Parma antenna farm stations except for WKYC (and sometimes WOIO).


I am, though, a little closer to there than you are...you're much farther east of here. I'm not far from the Merriman Valley, just up the hill from one of our other posters (akron05, I believe). The folks at antennaweb say I'm roughly 18-19 miles from the Parma farm, a bit west of due north in direction. Not quite north-northwest.


I think height and proximity is in my favor here, and maybe the tall trees have enough open space between them here...


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1280X720 since that's the native resolution of the TV. The extra 86 X 48 is essentially "under the edges" of the screen.



TY, where 2 TV places told me this was the way to set it (progressive) the Manufacture (LG) suggested I go with the higher resolution interlaced, anyhow, going to set this at progressive, both setting still do yield a great picture!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is a difference between antennas. However, I think the difference is a per house basis. You almost have to go out, buy 5 or 6 antennas. See which one has the best results and return the rest.
> 
> 
> Going OTA is trial and error. I just wish I could get CBS more consistently. For a while it was coming in well, but now it's breaking up all the time.



I'm currently doing that untill I find a way to run cable up to my front bedroom I use as an office.. I'll now be using the ears in there.


Right now I'm using the Philips MANT310, the third antenna I'm testing. 20dB gain on VHF, 32dB gain on the UHF with a single gain control. 3 & 5 are still a problem child, I'll likely try others, though if worse comes to worse on this one the bright blue LED doubles as a nightlight!


----------



## DaveKennett

PTXer,


Try NOT using ther splitter to see if that helps.


We all know trees are a no-no for satellite, but UHF can get through pretty well, and it hardly hurts VHF. My antenna is only up about 20 feet, and I'm shooting right through maybe a mile of TALL trees. There is no way I could get over them. Besides, with no leaves, they shouldn't hurt much now.


Dave


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveKennett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try NOT using ther splitter to see if that helps.
> 
> 
> We all know trees are a no-no for satellite, but UHF can get through pretty well, and it hardly hurts VHF. My antenna is only up about 20 feet, and I'm shooting right through maybe a mile of TALL trees. There is no way I could get over them. Besides, with no leaves, they shouldn't hurt much now.



I am not currently using a splitter. What I was wondering was if an amplifier/splitter would help me. I get good signal from 3, 5, 49, but I can't get a lock on 8 or 19. I do get some Youngstown stations though. My antenna only has a 2-3 ft mast (on 2 story house). I am thinking about going to a taller one.


----------



## JJkizak

In my experience adding the electronic splitter will make things worse as the tuner in you tv is far more sensitive than the electronic splitter and you will wonder why half the channels are missing. A preamp located at the antenna might help but you just have to try it to see. A lot of "hit and miss" here.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

I've got a blank screen on HDnet and HDnetMovies. Can someone check and let me know what they have?


----------



## prankmafia




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got a blank screen on HDnet and HDnetMovies. Can someone check and let me know what they have?



i have the same.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *prankmafia* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i have the same.



On DiSH everything is fine with HDNet/movies


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am not currently using a splitter. What I was wondering was if an amplifier/splitter would help me. I get good signal from 3, 5, 49, but I can't get a lock on 8 or 19. I do get some Youngstown stations though. My antenna only has a 2-3 ft mast (on 2 story house). I am thinking about going to a taller one.



Most of my OTA signals go way down or disappear if I turn the amplifier off. The "FM TRAP" on the amp helped too. It wasn't too sensitive to my splitting.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got a blank screen on HDnet and HDnetMovies. Can someone check and let me know what they have?



It's being looked at. Stand by...


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Most of my OTA signals go way down or disappear if I turn the amplifier off. The "FM TRAP" on the amp helped too. It wasn't too sensitive to my splitting.



Do you have a pre-amp on you antenna too? I have a pre-amp, but no splitter/amp. I don't want to buy the splitter/amp if it won't improve my signal (although I may eventually need just a splitter).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's being looked at. Stand by...



**EDIT** It's been fixed.


----------



## hookbill

Thanks for checking guys. Glad to know it was a TW thing and not just my S3.


----------



## akron05

Here's a television history question:


Why did Ohio never jump on the translator/repeater bandwagon? The only stations in this state who have repeaters are TBN affiliates. If you're in Mansfield, or New Philadelphia you pretty much have no decent OTA options unless you're one of the 10% of the people lucky enough to live on a hill AND have an 80 foot high tower. Did people just not watch TV in those areas until cable came around?


I did some antennaweb searching. The most outback, rural areas of Utah have most major affiliates available from SLC via transmitters and they're 300 miles from any major city. New Philadelphia is 65 air miles from Cleveland and gets nothing.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you have a pre-amp on you antenna too? I have a pre-amp, but no splitter/amp. I don't want to buy the splitter/amp if it won't improve my signal (although I may eventually need just a splitter).



Not sure what you mean by pre-amp. I have a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna which are 'summed' together by using a splitter backwards. This goes immediately into a powered amp, I think about 20dB or so with an FM Trap. Then it goes 100' to the TV.


I have tried many things at the end of the 100' (another amplifier, etc) but there was no improvement. By that time I think the only thing an amp would do is amplify noise.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure what you mean by pre-amp. I have a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna which are 'summed' together by using a splitter backwards. This goes immediately into a powered amp, I think about 20dB or so with an FM Trap. Then it goes 100' to the TV.



A pre-amp resides right on the antenna typically replacing the transformer (to 75ohm cable) on most antennae. The fact that it is right at the source enables it to better amplify the signal instead of the noise from the connections and cable. There is then a power supply just inside the house that feeds power back up the cable to the pre-amp. This can be a detriment though for stations broadcasting less than 10 miles away. My GS2200 has one built in, but you can buy separate ones made by both Winegard and Channel Master. You have to make sure you have the power supply though. Again this power supply goes backward to the antenna, while most other amplifiers boost the signal as it heads toward the TV. I have seen typical setups that include both the pre-amp and an amplifier but just not sure if they (amplifiers) are worth it. Maybe for extremely long cable runs inside the house.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a television history question:
> 
> 
> Why did Ohio never jump on the translator/repeater bandwagon? The only stations in this state who have repeaters are TBN affiliates. If you're in Mansfield, or New Philadelphia you pretty much have no decent OTA options unless you're one of the 10% of the people lucky enough to live on a hill AND have an 80 foot high tower. Did people just not watch TV in those areas until cable came around?
> 
> 
> I did some antennaweb searching. The most outback, rural areas of Utah have most major affiliates available from SLC via transmitters and they're 300 miles from any major city. New Philadelphia is 65 air miles from Cleveland and gets nothing.



I would not say Dover/New Philly got "nothing" OTA, just not the "correct" market.


Back in the mid 70's I was just outside of New Philladelphia (Leesville Lake) with a portable TV. I Got 3 stations WTAE-4, WTRF-7, and WSTV-9 iirc. I thought it was novel that the 3 networks came from 3 different states.


While Dover/New Philly are in the "Cleveland" DMA, OTA wise they are really in the Steubenville/Wheeling area.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would not say Dover/New Philly got "nothing" OTA, just not the "correct" market.
> 
> 
> Back in the mid 70's I was just outside of New Philladelphia (Leesville Lake) with a portable TV. I Got 3 stations WTAE-4, WTRF-7, and WSTV-9 iirc. I thought it was novel that the 3 networks came from 3 different states.
> 
> 
> While Dover/New Philly are in the "Cleveland" DMA, OTA wise they are really in the Steubenville/Wheeling area.



I know a guy that gets at least WEWS and WJW digital in Tusc county, but he has three times the antenna setup the average Joe does, or did back in the 50s or 60s - he has an 80 foot tower and a HUGE antenna.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would not say Dover/New Philly got "nothing" OTA, just not the "correct" market.
> 
> 
> Back in the mid 70's I was just outside of New Philladelphia (Leesville Lake) with a portable TV. I Got 3 stations WTAE-4, WTRF-7, and WSTV-9 iirc. I thought it was novel that the 3 networks came from 3 different states.
> 
> 
> While Dover/New Philly are in the "Cleveland" DMA, OTA wise they are really in the Steubenville/Wheeling area.



How did the area end up in Cleveland's DMA? Was it because of cable TV and the fact that one could get ALL networks rather than just the two from Wheeling/Steubenville and MAYBE P'Burgh?


----------



## Tom in OH

Why isn't "Scrubs" filmed in HD? It's usually stretched 4:3, then last week the info reported "HDTV" for the first time(that I've seen it) but it showed in 4:3 with bars on Lt & rt. Then this week it was 4:3 again but not listed as HDTV.


----------



## terryfoster

The only Scrubs episode that was presented in HD was last season's finale. Scrubs is not produced in HD and since this is the last season I wouldn't expect that to change.


EDIT: Future of the show is still unknown.


----------



## Tom in OH

oh good, ... was hoping I wasn't the only one watching...







thx


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know a guy that gets at least WEWS and WJW digital in Tusc county, but he has three times the antenna setup the average Joe does, or did back in the 50s or 60s - he has an 80 foot tower and a HUGE antenna.



Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.



I've noticed with my (analog) handheld TV, I get watchable reception on WJW going down 77 until about the south end of Canton, and then it rapidly fades to unwatchable black-and-white snow with only a shadow of a picture between there and Bolivar on the Stark/Tusc county line, which is only about 10 miles. I bet that's when you go out of the line-of-sight of the tower.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.



They can get WOUC 44 in Cambridge rather easily too. I'd bet a large enough antenna setup could do OK for some Cleveland stations and perhaps Columbus on a good day, but that's pushing it.


----------



## akron05

Regarding my handheld, what's funny is that here in Akron with the whip antenna, I get all Cleveland and Akron locals clear as a bell and Youngstown pretty much not at all, but if I play with the antenna I can get WFMJ watchable. Drive 10 minutes to Hartville and Channel 3 worsens a bit, the others stay the same, but WMFJ, WKBN, AND WYTV all come in quite nicely.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a television history question:
> 
> 
> Why did Ohio never jump on the translator/repeater bandwagon? The only stations in this state who have repeaters are TBN affiliates. If you're in Mansfield, or New Philadelphia you pretty much have no decent OTA options unless you're one of the 10% of the people lucky enough to live on a hill AND have an 80 foot high tower. Did people just not watch TV in those areas until cable came around?
> 
> 
> I did some antennaweb searching. The most outback, rural areas of Utah have most major affiliates available from SLC via transmitters and they're 300 miles from any major city. New Philadelphia is 65 air miles from Cleveland and gets nothing.



I think I brought this up about Utah earlier in the thread. Where I'm unaware of Northern Utah, the SLC repeaters & translators went all the way down to St George, & covered most of the remote areas, With my portable with a single dipole, I was able to get more OTA channels from 48 miles south of downtown SLC, than I'm able to get out East here in Lake County with a roof antenna.


PBS is using repeaters in the area "Eastlake" on 63 (which is actually in Thompson in Geauga County & does not even cover Eastlake, this used to be the old Ch 67 Translator actually licensed out of Thompson), 64 in Conneaut, I believe there are a few others, think there was one on Ch 22 in Gates Mills... god knows where the tower was.


Even being out east in these RF holes the repeaters never benefited me there was one point PBS was a crapshoot dependant on the weather conditions.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.



Right now, but when they will eveidently go back to 8, I wonder. WSEE out of Erie (ABC) will be the only Erie reaching into my coverage area, too bad it isn't the CBS affiliate, dunno If I can depend on the measley 1.3 KW 19 will be throwing, looking at the patterens, 19 will better serve the south & west with the digital signal, while degrading the North & east over the analog.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now, but when they will eveidently go back to 8, I wonder. WSEE out of Erie (ABC) will be the only Erie reaching into my coverage area, too bad it isn't the CBS affiliate, dunno If I can depend on the measley 1.3 KW 19 will be throwing, looking at the patterens, 19 will better serve the south & west with the digital signal, while degrading the North & east over the analog.



WSEE in Erie is CBS. WJET is ABC.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WSEE in Erie is CBS. WJET is ABC.



WSEE-DT barely makes it to Ashtabula. WJET-DT otoh, makes it all the way to Madison - but that is a construction permit not their actual signal today. For that map you need to look at the "STA" special temproary autorization which is almost the same as WSEE.


BTW: WJET is on ch 58, when the analogs go away so does ch 58. They will probably revert to their current analog channel for their final digital assignment.


----------



## Valnar

Did WOW in North Royalton change their digital channel lineup? I noticed some of the physical channels changed, and I can no longer get CBS-HD.


Robert


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did WOW in North Royalton change their digital channel lineup? I noticed some of the physical channels changed, and I can no longer get CBS-HD. Robert



I think that WOW has the same lineup for the entire Cleveland area. FWIW, tonight CBS-HD is on channel 201.


----------



## kramerboy

Did anyone else notice that Jeopardy was NOT in HD last night? I watched the last 15 minutes OTA and it definitely was SD.


----------



## Dweezilz

It hasn't been for a few days. Don't know why...maybe older non-HD version repeats.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anyone else notice that Jeopardy was NOT in HD last night? I watched the last 15 minutes OTA and it definitely was SD.



I noticed the same thing.


I checked the info via the on-screen guide and it indicated it was new and it's first air was 2007, so it should've been in HD.


Wheel of Fortune turned HD around the same time Jeopardy did. Did anyone notice if Wheel is still broadcasting in HD? They are both Merv Griffin productions after all.....


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WSEE-DT barely makes it to Ashtabula. WJET-DT otoh, makes it all the way to Madison - but that is a construction permit not their actual signal today. For that map you need to look at the "STA" special temproary autorization which is almost the same as WSEE.
> 
> 
> BTW: WJET is on ch 58, when the analogs go away so does ch 58. They will probably revert to their current analog channel for their final digital assignment.



My Bad, it was WJET on 58, which will cover Painesville & bisect Mentor (eventually after construction) now too bad it wasn't a CBS affiliate, seems like 19 will be iffy here, regardless of what their coverage map says.


Wasn't it always true the lower UHF channels had better coverage, over the higher ones, or did?... or was this how the FCC used to allocate them? I remember years ago when 43 & 61 were suppose to merge & go to the open allocation of channel 19, & that they were able to transmit higher power & have better coverage, just as it was the opposite with VHF, the Higher channels being prefered, & VHF being a broadcasting prefrence over UHF.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did WOW in North Royalton change their digital channel lineup? I noticed some of the physical channels changed, and I can no longer get CBS-HD.



Another reason why I detest the cable Company so much, they are telling my neighbor she needs a box for HD, yet they do put the local HD channels on without a box up around 110-118, & include a few others, ESPN, & the Game Show Network, yet call them & ask them where they are they still claim a box is needed (at an extra charge of course). The seem to be continously changing them.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My Bad, it was WJET on 58, which will cover Painesville & bisect Mentor (eventually after construction) now too bad it wasn't a CBS affiliate, seems like 19 will be iffy here, regardless of what their coverage map says.
> 
> 
> Wasn't it always true the lower UHF channels had better coverage, over the higher ones, or did?... or was this how the FCC used to allocate them? I remember years ago when 43 & 61 were suppose to merge & go to the open allocation of channel 19, & that they were able to transmit higher power & have better coverage, just as it was the opposite with VHF, the Higher channels being prefered, & VHF being a broadcasting prefrence over UHF.



Generally, the lower the channel number the easier it is to cover an area at a specific ERP. The biggest difference is between UHF and VHF. While Channep 19 is easier to cover with than 61, the difference is fairly small.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My Bad, it was WJET on 58, which will cover Painesville & bisect Mentor (eventually after construction) now too bad it wasn't a CBS affiliate, seems like 19 will be iffy here, regardless of what their coverage map says.
> 
> 
> Wasn't it always true the lower UHF channels had better coverage, over the higher ones, or did?... or was this how the FCC used to allocate them? I remember years ago when 43 & 61 were suppose to merge & go to the open allocation of channel 19, & that they were able to transmit higher power & have better coverage, just as it was the opposite with VHF, the Higher channels being prefered, & VHF being a broadcasting prefrence over UHF.



When WKBF-TV signed on ch 61 there was no such thing as a 4 MW transmitter (or an FCc approved powwer level). That is why WKBF went dark a few years after 43 signed on. Today WQHS-TV has 4 MW so the coverage is similar to ch 19's. The only entity making out on that deal is the electric company, which is probably why WOIO insists on being on ch 10 for their final digital channel. The higher the frequency the more power is needed to cover the same area. Unfortunately (as I repeatedly beat a dead horse) ch 10 is the worst place to be for WOIO.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Maybe it's time we did a "Shame on you" for WOIO & Raycom. Let them know that their digital Rf ch 10 is no place to be. Tell them about your problems in Lake County (or anywhere else within the DMA - I bet Sandusky and Mansfield also have issues).


We need to bombard them with the message.


Here are some facts to mention:


1.) Even though the U.S. will end the transition to digital in 2009 Canada is years behind. This means CFPL-TV will still need protection to the north, northeast, wacking Lake and Ashtabula counties' reception of WOIO-DT.


2.) WBNS-TV has been on ch 10 in Columbus longer that WOIO existed. WOIO successfully bumped WBNS off ch 10. Unlike our WJW, which can and will return to Rf ch 8 after the transition is over WBNS will not be allowed, thanks to WOIO's maneuvering to grab ch 10.

You may want to "CC" WBNS on any correspondence you send to WOIO.


Keep it civil - this is not a vendetta. We need to let Raycom know that they do have viewers using antennas to receive WOIO. We should not be addicted to the "cable pig" in order to receive what is rightfully a free channel.


Also mention how easy it is for you to receive the rest of the Cleveland local digital channels in compairison to WOIO (you do not want to mention any problems you are having with WKYC - they will be on ch 17 after the transition so the current issues with Rf 2 will soon be history). You might want to mention with WEWS on 15 and WKYC on 17 having WOIO-DT on 19 would make perfect sense (the same antenna aimed in the same direction will get you ABC, NBC & CBS in one neat package).


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe it's time we did a "Shame on you" for WOIO & Raycom. Let them know that their digital Rf ch 10 is no place to be. Tell them about your problems in Lake County (or anywhere else within the DMA - I bet Sandusky and Mansfield also have issues).
> 
> 
> We need to bombard them with the message.
> 
> 
> Here are some facts to mention:
> 
> 
> 1.) Even though the U.S. will end the transition to digital in 2009 Canada is years behind. This means CFPL-TV will still need protection to the north, northeast, wacking Lake and Ashtabula counties' reception of WOIO-DT.
> 
> 
> 2.) WBNS-TV has been on ch 10 in Columbus longer that WOIO existed. WOIO successfully bumped WBNS off ch 10. Unlike our WJW, which can and will return to Rf ch 8 after the transition is over WBNS will not be allowed, thanks to WOIO's maneuvering to grab ch 10.
> 
> You may want to "CC" WBNS on any correspondence you send to WOIO.
> 
> 
> Keep it civil - this is not a vendetta. We need to let Raycom know that they do have viewers using antennas to receive WOIO. We should not be addicted to the "cable pig" in order to receive what is rightfully a free channel.
> 
> 
> Also mention how easy it is for you to receive the rest of the Cleveland local digital channels in compairison to WOIO (you do not want to mention any problems you are having with WKYC - they will be on ch 17 after the transition so the current issues with Rf 2 will soon be history). You might want to mention with WEWS on 15 and WKYC on 17 having WOIO-DT on 19 would make perfect sense (the same antenna aimed in the same direction will get you ABC, NBC & CBS in one neat package).



I wish you luck; however, WOIO could "give a crap". They've been "beat up" by lots of us for failing to provide "DD 5.1" (channel 3-1 and 8-1 already do and 5-1 is supposedly in the process of getting the upgrade). Raycom isn't willing to spend a few thousand that would cost. If they won't spend the "peanuts" for DD 5.1, do you really think that they would change something that would save them significant power costs (not peanuts)?


That said, I'm on your side! Just don't "hold your breath"!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wish you luck; however, WOIO could "give a crap". They've been "beat up" by lots of us for failing to provide "DD 5.1" (channel 3-1 and 8-1 already do and 5-1 is supposedly in the process of getting the upgrade). Raycom isn't willing to spend a few thousand that would cost. If they won't spend the "peanuts" for DD 5.1, do you really think that they would change something that would save them significant power costs (not peanuts)?
> 
> 
> That said, I'm on your side! Just don't "hold your breath"!



I wonder if they realize that their signal is so hard to receive in the outer ring of the DMA that even cable companies may have problems receiving the signal.


Providing DD5.1 probably costs more than runnig a digital tramsmitter on ch 19. They are running analog 19 now, the power bill should go down if/when a digital signal is put on that frequency. While staying on ch 10 would cost even less, part of the savings will be in the reduced signal they will be required to put out thanks to the protection of CFPL-TV.


I beileve the real reason they wanted ch 10 so bad was becuase CBS lost it's VHF postion on ch 8 in the "FOX swap". There really isn't a good high VHF frequency available on this part of the planet - thay have all been taken by neighboring markets.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Providing DD5.1 probably costs more than runnig a digital tramsmitter on ch 19. They are running analog 19 now, the power bill should go down if/when a digital signal is put on that frequency. While staying on ch 10 would cost even less, part of the savings will be in the reduced signal they will be required to put out thanks to the protection of CFPL-TV.



Possibly so, but I've read that the one time cost of hardware to pass on the network DD 5.1 is around $3k. So we're dealing with a really cheap company.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe it's time we did a "Shame on you" for WOIO & Raycom.



With the Super Bowl approaching, I think it would be a great idea to tell WOIO you want DD5.1 audio and also ask if they are going to turn off WeatherNow during the game.


WOIO contacts:

(hover over the name for the email address)
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...nav=menu68_9_3


----------



## hookbill

As I recall their response for DD 5.1 was, "We'll deliver it if CBS pays for it."


And you know maybe CBS should pay for it. It isn't that much money for a big company so if they won't spring for it why shouldn't CBS?


----------



## paule123

Does anyone know if the Cleveland High School Rock-Off was shot in HD? I wouldn't know since WVIZ still has a 7-watt nightlight of a transmitter. I'm seeing some pretty impressive local talent. I wonder if any other towns have a high-school "rock off" ?

http://www.cleveland.com/rockoff/


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As I recall their response for DD 5.1 was, "We'll deliver it if CBS pays for it."
> 
> 
> And you know maybe CBS should pay for it. It isn't that much money for a big company so if they won't spring for it why shouldn't CBS?



THAT is why I like OTA reception.


WKBN in Youngstown does 5.1, so I can aim the antenna over that way.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> THAT is why I like OTA reception.
> 
> 
> WKBN in Youngstown does 5.1, so I can aim the antenna over that way.



I actually would like to get an inexpensive pair of rabbit ears and see if I can't pick up some things. With the S3 I can OTA and cable both but wife has vetoed antenna.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually would like to get an inexpensive pair of rabbit ears and see if I can't pick up some things. With the S3 I can OTA and cable both but wife has vetoed antenna.



Does your wife realize that people don't notice antennas unless they're specifically looking for them? I don't notice them unless I LOOK for them.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does your wife realize that people don't notice antennas unless they're specifically looking for them? I don't notice them unless I LOOK for them.



I would have to agree. Unless your house is in the middle of an open field with no tress or other back drop features, an antenna is not something too many people would notice. My wife agreed to an antenna only if it were a stealthy one, but I bet if I replaced it with a bigger "normal" antenna, she wouldn't notice. I might have to if my reception doesn't improve.


----------



## hookbill

First it has nothing to do with what other people think. She doesn't like antenna's. She don't like them on the roof. She doesn't like them on top of the entertainment center.


Now that doesn't mean if I really wanted one I wouldn't get it but you have to realize that in any relationship sometimes you have to let them win now and then. If you don't they can cause you more problems.


So here's the bottom line. Do I keep my wife happy and don't get Dolby 5.1 on CBS? WEWS is suppose to get it soon enough. I get many other stations with DD5.1. Or do I stick some rabbit ears up there and annoy her?


Now if it ever came down to where TW stops carrying HD locals, for whatever reason then I'll make changes regardless. But that I can get her to understand.


----------



## Valnar

Get a big antenna and put it in the attic. Run some RG6 quad shield to your entertainment center.


Robert


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the Super Bowl approaching, I think it would be a great idea to tell WOIO you want DD5.1 audio and also ask if they are going to turn off WeatherNow during the game.
> 
> 
> WOIO contacts:
> 
> (hover over the name for the email address)
> http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...nav=menu68_9_3



IMHO WeatherNow does not take up enough bandwidth to make a difference.


Unfortunately, the two local stations who do not have a subchannel are 720p so you can't compair WJW to WOIO (the other 1080i station, is WKYC who also runs a weather subchannel).


----------



## paule123

Good news from WOIO ! Just got this back from their engineer:



> Quote:
> We are installing the equipment to carry 5.1 audio on all CBS
> 
> programming this week and testing it over the next 2 weeks. *The
> 
> Superbowl will be carried in 5.1 on WOIO.*
> 
> 
> Weather Now will continue to be broadcast as our 19-2 sub-channel during
> 
> the Superbowl. However we do plan on installing new encoders for both
> 
> the HD and SD channels by summer that will improve the video quality of
> 
> both HD and SD streams on our digital transmission. This technology has
> 
> advanced over the past 5 years since we have gone digital and we realize
> 
> we need to up-date this equipment to take advantage of these advances.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good news from WOIO ! Just got this back from their engineer:



Hey, look over there! It's a flying pig!


Seriously, though, that's great news!!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Get a big antenna and put it in the attic. Run some RG6 quad shield to your entertainment center.
> 
> 
> Robert



Attic antennas don't work well, in fact if you have insulation with any aluminum content you will get severe multipath issues. Anoter consideratin is a rotor - not recommended for attic installations unless your attic is large enough to give 360 deg. clearence to the antenna.


If all you are interested in is the Youngstown stations, get a Radio Shack UHF - only cat. 15-2160. I have one and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. No amplifier necessary. It's very directional so it gets it's "power" from its directional concentration.


----------



## hookbill

Now that is news. I'll be glad to get the Super Bowl and othe shows in 5.1. And with WEWS bringing 5.1 on board, no need for antenna.


----------



## jtscherne

Anyone have DirecTV? What's the current picture quality for the local HD stations? I'm considering switching since it looks more and more likely that MLB will be moving the Extra Innings package to DirecTV exclusively (contract not signed yet, but might be coming soon).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have DirecTV? What's the current picture quality for the local HD stations? I'm considering switching since it looks more and more likely that MLB will be moving the Extra Innings package to DirecTV exclusively (contract not signed yet, but might be coming soon).



Just another reason why I'm glad I got rid of that SA 8300. I had MLB last year and I did think geeze, I kind of hate to give that up but if they go to D* I wouldn't have gotten it anyway.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have DirecTV? What's the current picture quality for the local HD stations?



I have D* & receive locals a couple different ways. I still primarily use an HR10-250 Tivo which gets them OTA & the picture quality is fine. I also picked up an HR20 to play with & I haven't had any trouble with the local MPEG4 feed. Picture quality wise it's in the same ballpark as the Tivo OTA. I haven't done extensive comparitive tests as of yet though, but I've never found myself wishing I'd recorded an HD program on the Tivo due to it looking poor in MPEG4.


I still use the Tivo more on a day-to-day basis but the HR20 looks solid overall. And there have been multiple times where I had OTA issues, but the HR20 recorded the show fine so I had a watchable copy of a show we didn't want to miss.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have D* & receive locals a couple different ways. I still primarily use an HR10-250 Tivo which gets them OTA & the picture quality is fine. I also picked up an HR20 to play with & I haven't had any trouble with the local MPEG4 feed. Picture quality wise it's in the same ballpark as the Tivo OTA. I haven't done extensive comparitive tests as of yet though, but I've never found myself wishing I'd recorded an HD program on the Tivo due to it looking poor in MPEG4.
> 
> 
> I still use the Tivo more on a day-to-day basis but the HR20 looks solid overall. And there have been multiple times where I had OTA issues, but the HR20 recorded the show fine so I had a watchable copy of a show we didn't want to miss.



Arn't the HD locals on D* just the "big 4"? (i.e. no WUAB, WVIZ or WBNX -which isn't even hd yet). You'd still need OTA until they found room for all the HD locals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Arn't the HD locals on D* just the "big 4"? (i.e. no WUAB, WVIZ or WBNX -which isn't even hd yet). You'd still need OTA until they found room for all the HD locals.



I don't think so. When they made the HR20 available they started broadcasting locals in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

If I read the website correctly, it's just the big 4 at this point. I get decent OTA reception most of the time, so it's not that big of a deal, but I won't be paying extra for the HD locals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I read the website correctly, it's just the big 4 at this point. I get decent OTA reception most of the time, so it's not that big of a deal, but I won't be paying extra for the HD locals.



I read your post incorrectly. Yes, that's all they have for local broadcast. No MY Network as far as I know and of course the CW isn't available in HD yet. I think.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I read your post incorrectly. Yes, that's all they have for local broadcast. No MY Network as far as I know and of course the CW isn't available in HD yet. I think.



I'll bet they won't offer those in HD until analog is entirely gone.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually, they might offer WBNX once it goes digital (I checked and they offer CW in other markets).


----------



## hookbill

Since Murdock owns D* and MYNETWORK is part of Newscorp (FOX) it's interesting that they don't have MYNETWORK as part of their HD offering.


----------



## Tim Lones

I'm looking at trying to get an HDTV in the next couple of weeks..I live In Canton and my provider is Dish Network..I' ll probably have to get the vip 622 receiver upgrade. Dish is not offering Cleveland HDTV in the forseeable future. Question: I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm looking at trying to get an HDTV in the next couple of weeks..I live In Canton and my provider is Dish Network..I' ll probably have to get the vip 622 receiver upgrade. Dish is not offering Cleveland HDTV in the forseeable future. Question: I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..



This site is a great place to start: http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..



Speaking from experience, your reception will also heavily depend on your surroundings too. If you have tall trees or hills in the direction antennaweb is pointing you, your color coded range selection will jump up a color (stronger antenna required). The higher you can mount your antenna the better. Make sure the antenna you buy has a powered pre-amp and that you use the best RG6 cable you can buy. I am in Kent and get both Cleveland and Youngstown stations. A rotor would probably help you tune both locations in.


Tom


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking from experience, your reception will also heavily depend on your surroundings too. If you have tall trees or hills in the direction antennaweb is pointing you, your color coded range selection will jump up a color (stronger antenna required). The higher you can mount your antenna the better. Make sure the antenna you buy has a powered pre-amp and that you use the best RG6 cable you can buy. I am in Kent and get both Cleveland and Youngstown stations. A rotor would probably help you tune both locations in.
> 
> 
> Tom



A "stronger" antenna amped or not will not help you if there are obstructions which cause multipath. I can see the signals for WFMJ and WYTV but they keep droping to "0" and back up resulting in a no-lock situation. I need to get my antenna a little bit higher, or move it to another part of the roof in order to get a clean shot at the full Yongstown OTA (I do get WKBN-DT 24/7 they have the highest tower and the most power). I use Younstown ans an example for you since those transmitters are ~57 miles from my location, which is comprable to Canton to Cleveland.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..



Tim,


I'll second the comment that it largely depends on your specific location - topography, nearby obstructions, elevation, etc. I'm in North Canton near Portage St. about a mile east of I-77. I'm also on one of the highest points in my neighborhood. My antenna is on a ~30-foot tower. My main problem is receiving WKYC-DT. WOIO-DT can be touchy at times, especially when tropo conditions cause the London, Ont analog channel 10 to interfere with WOIO-DT. I receive all other Cleveland and Akron digitals with no problem.


I am able to receive WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT from Y-town with an amplified indoor antenna. In fact, I seem to be the only one who actually has an easier time receiving WFMJ-DT around here (it is actually lower power than WKBN-DT). You can probably forget about WYTV-DT in Y-town - they are much lower power than the other two. I have never been able to receive them myself.


The more height you can get on your antenna, the better your results will be.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim,
> 
> 
> I'll second the comment that it largely depends on your specific location - topography, nearby obstructions, elevation, etc. I'm in North Canton near Portage St. about a mile east of I-77. I'm also on one of the highest points in my neighborhood. My antenna is on a ~30-foot tower. My main problem is receiving WKYC-DT. WOIO-DT can be touchy at times, especially when tropo conditions cause the London, Ont analog channel 10 to interfere with WOIO-DT. I receive all other Cleveland and Akron digitals with no problem.
> 
> 
> I am able to receive WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT from Y-town with an amplified indoor antenna. In fact, I seem to be the only one who actually has an easier time receiving WFMJ-DT around here (it is actually lower power than WKBN-DT). You can probably forget about WYTV-DT in Y-town - they are much lower power than the other two. I have never been able to receive them myself.
> 
> 
> The more height you can get on your antenna, the better your results will be.




Thanks for the replies thus far. I know as a general rule, higher is better. However I am in a rental situation where the landlord doesnt want antennas on the roof. He did let me put a metal pole up for my E* satellite antenna..I dont have the funds to put up a tower so unless the E* installer can mount the antenna on the pole (with digging the ground up to hide the cable, as it is a pretty good run-Don't want to get into that expense, either), I am going to have to go with an indoor TV set top amplified antenna. The area I am in is fairly open. Not a lot of buildings real close. I live in a one story duplex near Aultman Hospital on Canton's southwest end. I'll probably get the best indoor antenna I can find..I should be able to get Canton, Akron, maybe Steubenville and at least 27 in Youngstown..


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm looking at trying to get an HDTV in the next couple of weeks..I live In Canton and my provider is Dish Network..I' ll probably have to get the vip 622 receiver upgrade. Dish is not offering Cleveland HDTV in the forseeable future. Question: I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..



Unless a hill is in your way, Youngstown is often easier from Canton than Cleveland is. WKBN should be no problem, you'll probably get WFMJ, and if you're east of Market Ave you'll probably get WYTV digital too.


As far as the Cleveland stations, the biggest trouble spot is WOIO. The others should be OK. You might have issues with WKYC because of low-VHF interference, but that's less a distance issue than an issue with what other things are flying around in the air around you.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim,
> 
> 
> I'll second the comment that it largely depends on your specific location - topography, nearby obstructions, elevation, etc. I'm in North Canton near Portage St. about a mile east of I-77. I'm also on one of the highest points in my neighborhood. My antenna is on a ~30-foot tower. My main problem is receiving WKYC-DT. WOIO-DT can be touchy at times, especially when tropo conditions cause the London, Ont analog channel 10 to interfere with WOIO-DT. I receive all other Cleveland and Akron digitals with no problem.
> 
> 
> I am able to receive WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT from Y-town with an amplified indoor antenna. In fact, I seem to be the only one who actually has an easier time receiving WFMJ-DT around here (it is actually lower power than WKBN-DT). You can probably forget about WYTV-DT in Y-town - they are much lower power than the other two. I have never been able to receive them myself.
> 
> 
> The more height you can get on your antenna, the better your results will be.



My cousin gets WYTV from Louisville rather well.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attic antennas don't work well, in fact if you have insulation with any aluminum content you will get severe multipath issues. Anoter consideratin is a rotor - not recommended for attic installations unless your attic is large enough to give 360 deg. clearence to the antenna.
> 
> 
> If all you are interested in is the Youngstown stations, get a Radio Shack UHF - only cat. 15-2160. I have one and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. No amplifier necessary. It's very directional so it gets it's "power" from its directional concentration.



I'm running a large RS Outdoor in my Attic (the 120 mile one even though I'm 28-34 from the farm)... although I have analog only upstairs where I'm using this, I'm very satisfied with the results over the Rabbit Ears not crystal clear except on 8 & 19 but watchable on all the majors., the amplified Phillips MANT410 Ears seems to do a bit better job on 43, 55 & 61, where the Attic setup is better on 3,5, & 25.


I have this hanging from the trusses with wire, with a slightly elevated end on the UHF portion, seems to work a bit better.


Would I be better off installing a UHF only with a combiner?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First it has nothing to do with what other people think. She doesn't like antenna's. She don't like them on the roof. She doesn't like them on top of the entertainment center.
> 
> 
> Now that doesn't mean if I really wanted one I wouldn't get it but you have to realize that in any relationship sometimes you have to let them win now and then. If you don't they can cause you more problems.
> 
> 
> So here's the bottom line. Do I keep my wife happy and don't get Dolby 5.1 on CBS? WEWS is suppose to get it soon enough. I get many other stations with DD5.1. Or do I stick some rabbit ears up there and annoy her?
> 
> 
> Now if it ever came down to where TW stops carrying HD locals, for whatever reason then I'll make changes regardless. But that I can get her to understand.



I don't get it, Wife own stock in TW? ... just the sight of a cable bill would freak me out, most of us (I think) grew up without cable & had that unsightly thing on the roof (everyone had one).

The day TV becomes a Utility, is the day it goes off (of course there are DVD's to watch too).








Override the wifes veto! I'll agree my ears are a bit akward & unsightly, but the blue LED does double as a Night Light


Spongebob & his friends don't visit my house!


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't get it, Wife own stock in TW? ... just the sight of a cable bill would freak me out, most of us (I think) grew up without cable & had that unsightly thing on the roof (everyone had one).
> 
> The day TV becomes a Utility, is the day it goes off (of course there are DVD's to watch too).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Override the wifes veto! I'll agree my ears are a bit akward & unsightly, but the blue LED does double as a Night Light
> 
> 
> Spongebob & his friends don't visit my house!



And most (many or at least some!) of us grew up on dirt roads that were oiled once or twice a year too!


Seriously, the only reason a TW bill would freak anyone out is because they see it once a month, unlike the $$'s spent on cigarettes or booze, which some of us choose not to partake. Some people have different priorities and adjust their budget to accomodate those priorities.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies thus far. I know as a general rule, higher is better. However I am in a rental situation where the landlord doesnt want antennas on the roof. He did let me put a metal pole up for my E* satellite antenna..I dont have the funds to put up a tower so unless the E* installer can mount the antenna on the pole (with digging the ground up to hide the cable, as it is a pretty good run-Don't want to get into that expense, either), I am going to have to go with an indoor TV set top amplified antenna. The area I am in is fairly open. Not a lot of buildings real close. I live in a one story duplex near Aultman Hospital on Canton's southwest end. I'll probably get the best indoor antenna I can find..I should be able to get Canton, Akron, maybe Steubenville and at least 27 in Youngstown..



If you must use an indoor antenna try to find a window facing in the direction of the towers, otherwise the walls will severely attenuate the OTA signal.


I live right inside the Cleveland antenna farm - "rabbit ears" give a lousy picture unless they are near a window. Aluminum siding plays a big part, but so does insulation, electrical wiring etc. inside the walls. Amplifiers only amplify what is input - so the old GIGO factor has to be considered (Garbage In, Garbage Out). With digital any multipath - which shows up as ghosts in analog reception, will totally wipeout any chance at reception (note my earlier post where some of the Youngstown station go from 70 to 0 - if the signal stays at 70 I'd get a lock).


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies thus far. I know as a general rule, higher is better. However I am in a rental situation where the landlord doesnt want antennas on the roof. He did let me put a metal pole up for my E* satellite antenna..I dont have the funds to put up a tower so unless the E* installer can mount the antenna on the pole (with digging the ground up to hide the cable, as it is a pretty good run-Don't want to get into that expense, either), I am going to have to go with an indoor TV set top amplified antenna. The area I am in is fairly open. Not a lot of buildings real close. I live in a one story duplex near Aultman Hospital on Canton's southwest end. I'll probably get the best indoor antenna I can find..I should be able to get Canton, Akron, maybe Steubenville and at least 27 in Youngstown..



FYI:


o They make antennas specifically to clip on the back of a satellite dish


o You can mux the digital signal from the satellite dish with the antenna signal on the same co-ax cable. The E* guy should be able to do this for you, or you can buy some cheap splitter/combiners made exactly for this purpose.


o Any way you hook it up would probably benefit from an amplifier. They make some that don't require additional power (self powered) but they don't work as well as the ones that plug into the wall.


o The vip622 from E* is an excellent box, but the reception for OTA signals is not as good as my A2000 TV. I can get many more and stronger signals on the same piece of co-ax from the TV than the vip622.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI:
> 
> 
> o They make antennas specifically to clip on the back of a satellite dish
> 
> 
> o You can mux the digital signal from the satellite dish with the antenna signal on the same co-ax cable. The E* guy should be able to do this for you, or you can buy some cheap splitter/combiners made exactly for this purpose.
> 
> 
> o Any way you hook it up would probably benefit from an amplifier. They make some that don't require additional power (self powered) but they don't work as well as the ones that plug into the wall.
> 
> 
> o The vip622 from E* is an excellent box, but the reception for OTA signals is not as good as my A2000 TV. I can get many more and stronger signals on the same piece of co-ax from the TV than the vip622.



It's nice to be able to integrate OTA with Satellite though, not having to switch back and forth and being able to use the DVR for broadcast, etc.


I wonder if DISH's next-gen box will have a better OTA tuner?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's nice to be able to integrate OTA with Satellite though, not having to switch back and forth and being able to use the DVR for broadcast, etc.
> 
> 
> I wonder if DISH's next-gen box will have a better OTA tuner?



TiVo's S3 has an excellent OTA tuner. I just haven't tried it but everyone reports how well it works. Some say you can use a coat hanger and get good reception.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's nice to be able to integrate OTA with Satellite though, not having to switch back and forth and being able to use the DVR for broadcast, etc.
> 
> 
> I wonder if DISH's next-gen box will have a better OTA tuner?



Dish's tuner is good. It gets Cleveland's stations at "90%". But my TV is better and can also tune in Youngstown and Akron, which the Dish tuner has trouble with.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dish's tuner is good. It gets Cleveland's stations at "90%". But my TV is better and can also tune in Youngstown and Akron, which the Dish tuner has trouble with.



Where do you live?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where do you live?



Oops, sorry. Chagrin Falls/Bainbridge area. 422 and 306.


----------



## mavtv

Azteca America adds Boston, Cleveland

Azteca America has just signed and affiliated with WFXZ-CA (24) Boston (was HSN Network and is owned By Boston Broadcasting Corp.) and Commercial Broadcasting Corp.'s (Independent) WRAP-CA (32) in Cleveland, both low powers. Both of these stations have solid coverage in the core cities, where much of the Hispanic population is located. This rounds out the Top 25 markets for them. This is a major score for them, because Univision, Telemundo and Telefutura are already in Beantown. Cleveland only had Univision, WQHS-TV (61), for Hispanic television. WFXZ is located on the same tower as FOX-TV in Boston; WRAP is located on The Society General building, 25-30 stories high. Azteca America Spot TV Sales will most likely be adding these stations to their list as well. Ouote from Television business report


If you go to wikipedia, it lists WFXZ as being Azteca America, but WRAP as being Corner Store TV. If this did occur, what is the actual coverage of the station? Zap2.it has no listings for ch 32 via OTA or for that matter cleveland.com has no stories on WRAP whatsoever.


http://www.rbr.com/tvepaper/issue140-06-gio.html 

http://www.cleveland.com/pdspecials.../more/hugo.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFXZ 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRAP-CA


----------



## Andrew K

Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA 


Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=CA232021.html 


My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA
> 
> 
> Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=CA232021.html
> 
> 
> My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.



Unless univision has plans for ch 61 that involves expanding the viewer base, I would assume that since it was a group station deal that allowed them to buy WQHS, why not just keep it . The last I heard, the general manager was out of Washington DC and it was pretty much coming off satellite execpt for a few local spots inculding one for the big sale at the summit county fairgrounds.


I know there has been a growth for spanish speaking Americans here in Ohio but unless univision is also targeting all of Northern Ohio as well since they are now people who can understand and speak spanish in Youngstown,Canton,Lorain, Akron, and Mansfield in addition to the core group in the Cleveland area. Ch 61 can be seen with some snow here in Youngstown and until late last year, Youngstown had an all Spanish station WASN-AM so could that be a part of the reason?


http://www.univision.net/corp/en/utg.jsp


----------



## intermod

Hi,


I noticed this xmttr holding down the channel allocation with info-mercials.


See my post on page 40 of this thread. At least the Fee-Cee'C's didnt give it to

" Air Alkida"! (but that may be in the works)



/Dan


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA
> 
> 
> Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=CA232021.html
> 
> .



I can get 32 on my outdoor, though it is fixed without a rotor toward the farm, so it is several degrees off.


WRAP used to show 24 hours of Rap Videos in the late '90's



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.



Signal would not make it out to Painesville & Geneva then.










Some of the videos are entertaining on Saturday Mornings.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And most (many or at least some!) of us grew up on dirt roads that were oiled once or twice a year too!
> 
> 
> Seriously, the only reason a TW bill would freak anyone out is because they see it once a month, unlike the $$'s spent on cigarettes or booze, which some of us choose not to partake. Some people have different priorities and adjust their budget to accomodate those priorities.



I lived on a gravel road that was tarred & stoned once a year... that count?










Right now basic cable would cut in to close to 10% of my monthly income, so I've scaled back my lifestyle not to include cable, cell, ect, still on dialup here too, & that's not going to change anytime soon.










Getting back to topic, my attic antenna is above the aluminum siding line, yet my rabbit ears aren't , perhaps the effect why my indoor antenna(s) cannot pick up 3 & 5?


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WRAP used to show 24 hours of Rap Videos in the late '90's



This is a rare instance when a change to infomercials is actually an IMPROVEMENT in programming!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA
> 
> 
> Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=CA232021.html
> 
> 
> My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.



An LPTV signal in Downtown Cleveland would not make it out to Lorain. There are probably more Hispanics in Lorain per capita than Cleveland.



> Quote:
> WRAP is located on The Society General building, 25-30 stories high



I never heard of that building. The FCC map looks like the WRAP-LP tower is in the vicinity of E.9th betwen Lakeside and St. Clair.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I lived on a gravel road that was tarred & stoned once a year... that count?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right now basic cable would cut in to close to 10% of my monthly income, so I've scaled back my lifestyle not to include cable, cell, ect, still on dialup here too, & that's not going to change anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting back to topic, my attic antenna is above the aluminum siding line, yet my rabbit ears aren't , perhaps the effect why my indoor antenna(s) cannot pick up 3 & 5?



The affect of aluminum siding definitely affects VHF more than UHF, however at least for digital it also affects UHF. Case in point: WVIZ-DT. I only live 3.5 miles from that short solar powered stick







yet I cannot get a lock on that signal unless I run a long coax to my back sliding door. Aiming through the wall, or even out the side window (which gets me virtually everything else just fine) won't work.


----------



## bgiese

Frustrated with WKYC.


I wish the guys at WKYC could remember to flip the HD switch at night.

Several times this year they've ran all or parts of my favorite shows without hitting the button to broadcast the program in HD.


All the stations have been guilty of this from time to time; but I can think of at least 4 or 5 times that WKYC has done this.


I usally watch on my DVR so I don't bother calling the station because It's often several hours after the show has aired before I get around to watching it.


The last time I noticed this problem was Monday night during "Heroes." They ran about the first 10 minutes in SD.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An LPTV signal in Downtown Cleveland would not make it out to Lorain. There are probably more Hispanics in Lorain per capita than Cleveland.



If that's the case, then I say put a LP transmitter in Lorain or wherever the hispanic/latino population exists. Even that would be doing them a favor. I'm just really fed up with this situation because I don't think that the Spanish speaking people should be catered to. It's not helping the situation by letting them continue to get by in this country with speaking Spanish only. This really makes me angry that people stick up for this kind of thing while we get the raw deal. But apparently, money is the driving issue in the world. I say, free up channel 61 from any foreign language so that we can all watch it.


----------



## Andrew K

Multicultural broadcasting is now airing infomercials on WOAC.


----------



## desmoface

Hey gang, I'm trying to find out what channel "Fuel TV" is on...I must have deleted it from my tv's channel's and I can't find it now...I don't use the time warner cable box, just the built in tuner from my tv..I seem to remember it being 105.2 something or around there..


I'm in Mentor, Ohio and just have basic cable..no digital cable...Time Warner's website is just about useless..Thanks in advance.


Steve


----------



## dleising

Did WOAC drop Shop at Home? I dont really care but I am just wondering. It seems like it is never on when I pass that channel.


----------



## Ognir

I am sort of doing the same thing as Steve

but with I am on Massillon Cable TV.


Something happened on Thrusday and all the HD channels have been removed or moved to somewhere else.


I just need to find them.


Example 3.1 is no longer WKYC-HD it is now the Animal Channel ( not in HD)

WEWS is no longer on 5.1 etc


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did WOAC drop Shop at Home? I dont really care but I am just wondering. It seems like it is never on when I pass that channel.




When Scripps Howard sold the Shop At Home stations, they shut down the network too. Jewelry Television simply was put in its place till recently..


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When Scripps Howard sold the Shop At Home stations, they shut down the network too. Jewelry Television simply was put in its place till recently..



Do you you know what they permanently plan on replacing it with? It just looks like infomercials now.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you you know what they permanently plan on replacing it with? It just looks like infomercials now.




I don't know what they'll premanently replace it with, but every half hour they have an announcement stating that if anyone is interested in having a program on WOAC, they are told to call a New York City (212) phone number. Now, from what little I've read of Multicultural Broadcasting, they seem to specialize in foreign language (not just Spanish) Programs. That doesnt mean they plan that for WOAC..just speculating here..


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey gang, I'm trying to find out what channel "Fuel TV" is on...I must have deleted it from my tv's channel's and I can't find it now...I don't use the time warner cable box, just the built in tuner from my tv..I seem to remember it being 105.2 something or around there..
> 
> 
> I'm in Mentor, Ohio and just have basic cable..no digital cable...Time Warner's website is just about useless..Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Steve



105-2?? they seem to be moving things around here, I don't have cable but my neighbor does, & I set her set up for auto program.


TW insists you need the box for Local HD, they are there with a direct connection into the set.. if you can find them.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An LPTV signal in Downtown Cleveland would not make it out to Lorain. There are probably more Hispanics in Lorain per capita than Cleveland.
> 
> 
> I never heard of that building. The FCC map looks like the WRAP-LP tower is in the vicinity of E.9th betwen Lakeside and St. Clair.



Key Bank Have A building There?.. unfamil with downtown now.


----------



## desmoface

Hey Bismark, yeah, it was the same when I called Comcast when I was getting my tv a couple years ago..they told me I wouldn't get any hd content, not even local's, without their cable box...of course, they either don't know wtf they are talking about, or they are just lying.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Bismark, yeah, it was the same when I called Comcast when I was getting my tv a couple years ago..they told me I wouldn't get any hd content, not even local's without their cable box...of course, they either don't know wtf they are talking about, or they are just lying.



They really don't know what they are talking about. Seriously, CSR's on cable are so misinformed.


I've documented a situation I've been going through with TW about missing 3 channels that I don't really care about. Myself and another S3 user were having the same problem and we also didn't have audio on these channels. This makes for good reading, if your interested look here.


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what they'll premanently replace it with, but every half hour they have an announcement stating that if anyone is interested in having a program on WOAC, they are told to call a New York City (212) phone number. Now, from what little I've read of Multicultural Broadcasting, they seem to specialize in foreign language (not just Spanish) Programs. That doesnt mean they plan that for WOAC..just speculating here..



From the corporate website, they are an asian broadcaster. I found this asian broadcaster imaginasia.tv that is expanding its operations thoughout the US and are looking for stations to take the programming they offer and they like to buy blocks of airtime on stations. Most of their programming is either in english or is subtitled in english, so if WOAC takes their programming it would not be a total loss. Their angle is on the cultural and not so much the language. From the promos on their website the shows don't look too bad if they would air them but multicultural also has SINO Television which is Chinese language 24/7.


This from the multicultural website: SINO Television


Sino Television is the only *24 hour Chinese language* television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Launched in 1998, Sino Television offers a comprehensive schedule of *Chinese language* programming including news, sports, entertainment, financial reports, drama, cooking shows, community programs and movies.

Sino Television is available on Time Warner Cable channels 78, 501, 502 and Cablevision 238 in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region.
*With the newly acquired television stations by MRBI's television group, Sino Television is expanding its broadcast coverage to reach Chinese television program audience in the major U.S. cities.*


Also: Sino Television Broadcasting


Sino Television is the only 24 hour Chinese language television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Available via cable TV, satellite TV, IPTV, and *soon broadcast TV*.


I think by airing imaginasia.tv they have a better shot of sucess since it is programming that for the most part is in english and has cross over appeal but all Chinese in a market that has a total asian houshold of 20,460 or 1.4% and Asian market # 30 you have to be kidding me. Now if the infomation on the corporate website is correct we now have 2 waste frequencies. Just check out the links and see for yourself.




http://www.mrbi.net/tvgroup.htm 

http://www.mrbi.net/index.htm 


 [URL='http://www.iatv.tv/index2.php[/ur']http://www.iatv.tv/index2.php[/ur 

http://www.iatv.tv/press_release.php 

http://www.mrbi.net/sinotv.htm 

http://www.mrbi.net/chinesemediagroup.htm 

http://www.am1300.com/program_content.html


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When Scripps Howard sold the Shop At Home stations, they shut down the network too. Jewelry Television simply was put in its place till recently..



After Jewerly television took over the remains of shop at home they had a Resurrection and made at an overnite service. Why I don't know but it seems like a waste of frequency to have another home shopping network.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shop_at_Home_Network 

http://www.shopathometv.com/home.jsp


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Multicultural broadcasting is now airing infomercials on WOAC.



From Wikipedia, multicultural closed on Cleveland, San Francisco and Raleigh stations last month Dec 20 th. Still waiting on Bridgeport, Connecticut (New York) ,Boston, and Barstow, California (LA) though. I would assume different programming is coming but probally not until they close on all 6 stations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOAC 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_Television


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Key Bank Have A building There?.. unfamil with downtown now.



It's the old Society Center building downtown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Tower


----------



## T3ddyG

Hi Everyone, fellow Clevelander here. I know this is an HDTV thread, but I was curious if anyone has tried HD-Radio in Cleveland? I found an online listing of available stations:
Code:


Code:


Station Dial Pos.        HD-1 Format        HD-2 Format
WXRK-FM 92.3             Rock               Rock/Rap Hybrid 
WAKS-FM 96.5             Top 40             All New Hits 
WNCX-FM 98.5             Classic Rock       Spanish Hit Radio 
WGAR-FM 99.5             Country            None
WQAL-FM 104.1            Contemporary       Interactive Requests  
WCLV-FM 104.9            Classical          None
WMVX-FM 106.5            Contemporary       Adult Alternative 
WNWV-FM 107.3            Smooth Jazz        None
WJMO-AM 1490             Gospel             None

Does anyone know if that list is up to date? I was hoping 90.3 NPR would be in HD. Is it true that the only HD AM is gospel?







I love the sports talk on AM. Thanks


----------



## akron05

Why are NO Akron or Canton radio stations yet broadcasting in HD?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone, fellow Clevelander here. I know this is an HDTV thread, but I was curious if anyone has tried HD-Radio in Cleveland? I found an online listing of available stations:
> Code:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Station Dial Pos.        HD-1 Format        HD-2 Format
> WXRK-FM 92.3             Rock               Rock/Rap Hybrid
> WAKS-FM 96.5             Top 40             All New Hits
> WNCX-FM 98.5             Classic Rock       Spanish Hit Radio
> WGAR-FM 99.5             Country            None
> WQAL-FM 104.1            Contemporary       Interactive Requests
> WCLV-FM 104.9            Classical          None
> WMVX-FM 106.5            Contemporary       Adult Alternative
> WNWV-FM 107.3            Smooth Jazz        None
> WJMO-AM 1490             Gospel             None
> 
> Does anyone know if that list is up to date? I was hoping 90.3 NPR would be in HD. Is it true that the only HD AM is gospel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the sports talk on AM. Thanks



It would be nice if WCPN was HD, because I'm a news junkie and would rather listen to news stuff in the off hours instead of jazz. But let's face it until HD radio becomes standard in new vehicles, it won't gain any traction.


Re sports talk, isn't our so-called "news/talk" station WTAM enough sports? They really should be an ESPN station. WTAM are basically shills for all the sports teams in Cleveland. I love the sports talk too, but my god, they are nothing close to a real news/talk station. Listen to WLS, WGN or WBBM AM in Chicago for a clue as to what a real news/talk station should be doing. Rick Gilmour was the only guy on WTAM that talked about local issues, and WTAM kicked him to the curb for seasonal sports programming.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It would be nice if WCPN was HD, because I'm a news junkie and would rather listen to news stuff in the off hours instead of jazz. But let's face it until HD radio becomes standard in new vehicles, it won't gain any traction.
> 
> 
> Re sports talk, isn't our so-called "news/talk" station WTAM enough sports? They really should be an ESPN station. WTAM are basically shills for all the sports teams in Cleveland. I love the sports talk too, but my god, they are nothing close to a real news/talk station. Listen to WLS, WGN or WBBM AM in Chicago for a clue as to what a real news/talk station should be doing. Rick Gilmour was the only guy on WTAM that talked about local issues, and WTAM kicked him to the curb for seasonal sports programming.



WTAM 1100 does Local talk 9-12 Noon with Bob Frantz, As far as Sports Talk, 1540 Daytimer WWGK is the ESPN Radio outlet (The former WABQ), While WKNR-850 is Fox Sports Radio..Both are owned by Craig Karmazin (Son of Mel) A bright young broadcaster who also owns stations in Milwaukee and Madison, Wisconsin and West Palm Beach, Florida. He recently bought KNR from Salem Communications.


----------



## hookbill

While HD radio does produce a nice clean sound, it still nothing more then some corporation telling you what you should listen too, along with a whole bunch of commercials. It's hard to put quality into crap.


Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.


----------



## JJkizak

OK, I have to ask this. Is HD radio just another name for digital?

JJK


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I have to ask this. Is HD radio just another name for digital?
> 
> JJK



That is exactly right. They simply carve out a slice of your allocated frequency bandwidth and use it to transmit a low bit rate digital datastream. I have an HD receiver in my car and the quality is no better than an average MP3 or even satellite radio. The term "HD Radio" is all marketing and is light years away from anything I would term HD quality audio such as SACD or 96 or 192 bit DVD-Audio(I'm not talking about lower quality lossy systems such as Dolby Digital or DTS). About the only thing it really has going for it is less background noise and being able to see the song title and artist listed(not all even do that). As far as listenability, you are not giving up a thing compared to a good quality FM analog station. If the station used all of its available bandwith that would be a different story - but for now that's just the way it is.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is exactly right. They simply carve out a slice of your allocated frequency bandwidth and use it to transmit a low bit rate digital datastream. I have an HD receiver in my car and the quality is no better than an average MP3 or even satellite radio. The term "HD Radio" is all marketing and is light years away from anything I would term HD quality audio such as SACD or 96 or 192 bit DVD-Audio(I'm not talking about lower quality lossy systems such as Dolby Digital or DTS). About the only thing it really has going for it is less background noise and being able to see the song title and artist listed(not all even do that). As far as listenability, you are not giving up a thing compared to a good quality FM analog station. If the station used all of its available bandwith that would be a different story - but for now that's just the way it is.



Matter of fact, there is one station on XM called "fine tuneing" and they play a wide variety of stuff from modern classical to progressive rock and even some peoetry every once in a while. That really reminds me of what FM was like in the early days.


Anyway they actually broadcast in Dolby 5.1, but you need to have a receiver that has an XM radio capable of receiving the Dolby 5.1. Now that beats the crap out of any of this "so called" HD radio.


----------



## pbarach

WCLV 104.9, which broadcasts classical music, has had the following information posted on its website since 2003:

WCLV 104.9 has been broadcasting in HD (digital radio) since Tuesday, August 14th, 2003. WCLV was the second station in the Cleveland area after WNWV to begin transmitting the HD signal. It also the third classical music station in the nation to do so, the others being KDFC, San Francisco. and WUSF, Tampa.


Since then, there hasn't been much HD activity, and WCLV has been quiet about it because there weren't any HD radios available. Well, that is beginning to change. Boston Acoustics has its HD Receptor table model radio available on the Internet, and we understand will soon be selling it through Radio Shack. Radio Shack is also supposed to have its own brand of HD radio available.


The advantage of HD originally was that the sound was to be so much better than analog. Frankly, when there is a qualty analog signal, such as WCLV's, there's not that much difference. There is virtually no difference with heavily processed rock programming. At least you can't tell any difference,


The current excitement about HD centers around the ability to broadcast additional signals with different programs, the so-called HD2 and HD3 streams. Many stations, including WCLV, are planning for new programming on these channels. However, WCLV is taking it slowly, as we and others in the industry have found a flaw. When HD was announced, we were told that the HD coverage would be equal to the analog coverage. Unfortunately, it just isn't true. HD coverage is about 60% of the analog signal. This is very disappointing. And, our experiments show that an HD radio needs an antenna, a rabbit ear TV antenna or a dipole.
http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?s...ontentId=25747


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WCLV 104.9, which broadcasts classical music, has had the following information posted on its website since 2003:
> 
> 
> However, WCLV is taking it slowly, as we and others in the industry have found a flaw. When HD was announced, we were told that the HD coverage would be equal to the analog coverage. Unfortunately, it just isn't true. HD coverage is about 60% of the analog signal. This is very disappointing. And, our experiments show that an HD radio needs an antenna, a rabbit ear TV antenna or a dipole. [/font]
> http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?s...ontentId=25747




The fact that one has to have an antenna to receive ANY digital radio has kept me from getting it so far. Being in Canton, I don't even get the WCLV 104.9 analog signal, let alone any digital..Akron/Canton had no digital on that I know of..I still want to look into it though...


----------



## T3ddyG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re sports talk, isn't our so-called "news/talk" station WTAM enough sports?



I really like to listen to the morning shows on 850 am during my commute.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.



I tried XM-radio. It was so-so. I don't drive enough to really get anything out of it, and the sound quality on my unit sucked. I'm sure it was just my unit, because other people talk about cd-sound, but mine was atrocious. I am buying a new head unit for my car, so I figured I would investigate the HD-Radio scene. The cost is very similar, and if certain stations I like were in digital, I would buy it immediately. My typical usage consists of radio for talk/news, and my ipod for music. If it makes you feel any better my new head unit will be Sirius + XM ready. I'm buying the JVC KD-HDR1.


For anyone interested - I emailed 90.3 WCPN, regarding the status of HD-Radio at their station. I'll let you know if/when I hear back =]


----------



## SteveC

The problem with multicasting is you are further dividing the available bitrate between multiple channels. I think all you have now to begin with is 96 kilobits per second which seems to only give you average sound quality at best - on one channel. If you actually tried to have two music channels I think the quality would really suck. Maybe if you only added something that work with a very low bitrate like news or traffic updates it might be OK. Unfortunately my HD radio is one of the earlier ones that does not have multichannel reception so I can't give a good first hand opinion. Someone did ask whether there are any Akron stations broadcasting in HD - the iBiquity site does list one - WKDD at 98.1: http://www.hdradio.com/hd_digital_radio_format_list.php


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why are NO Akron or Canton radio stations yet broadcasting in HD?



I do beleive the new 101.7 WHOF out of North Canton does HD. That is what the site says. WKSU does as well.

http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio/hdr...n/OH/StnMarket 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOF 

http://www.my1017.com/main.html 

http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mavtv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do beleive the new 101.7 WHOF out of North Canton does HD. That is what the site says. WKSU does as well.
> 
> http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio/hdr...n/OH/StnMarket
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOF
> 
> http://www.my1017.com/main.html
> 
> http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio




Youre right about WHOF..The former WJER-FM Dover..The one station I might get in digital without an antenna


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While HD radio does produce a nice clean sound, it still nothing more then some corporation telling you what you should listen too, along with a whole bunch of commercials. It's hard to put quality into crap.
> 
> 
> Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.



I second that thought. Local radio is horrible in Cleveland these days. What is HD radio anyways? I think HD is the latest "it" word and radio is trying to jump on the bandwagon in an attempt to make a dollar anyway they can.


With the amount of same song replays, constant traffic/weather reports, too many commercials and overall lack of content and originality has left me no other choice but to switch to satellite. I am in the process of switching over to Sirius.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really like to listen to the morning shows on 850 am during my commute.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried XM-radio. It was so-so. I don't drive enough to really get anything out of it, and the sound quality on my unit sucked. I'm sure it was just my unit, because other people talk about cd-sound, but mine was atrocious. I am buying a new head unit for my car, so I figured I would investigate the HD-Radio scene. The cost is very similar, and if certain stations I like were in digital, I would buy it immediately. My typical usage consists of radio for talk/news, and my ipod for music. If it makes you feel any better my new head unit will be Sirius + XM ready. I'm buying the JVC KD-HDR1.
> 
> 
> For anyone interested - I emailed 90.3 WCPN, regarding the status of HD-Radio at their station. I'll let you know if/when I hear back =]



If you used it in your car without hardwiring it I'll bet it sucked. I have mine hard wired for the car but it is totally portable so I can take it out and use it with my home sound system as well.


If your happy with that commercial crap they feed you on FM, that's up to you. XM is more for the free thinking person.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone, fellow Clevelander here. I know this is an HDTV thread, but I was curious if anyone has tried HD-Radio in Cleveland? I found an online listing of available stations:
> Code:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Station Dial Pos.        HD-1 Format        HD-2 Format
> WXRK-FM 92.3             Rock               Rock/Rap Hybrid
> WAKS-FM 96.5             Top 40             All New Hits
> WNCX-FM 98.5             Classic Rock       Spanish Hit Radio
> WGAR-FM 99.5             Country            None
> WQAL-FM 104.1            Contemporary       Interactive Requests
> WCLV-FM 104.9            Classical          None
> WMVX-FM 106.5            Contemporary       Adult Alternative
> WNWV-FM 107.3            Smooth Jazz        None
> WJMO-AM 1490             Gospel             None
> 
> Does anyone know if that list is up to date? I was hoping 90.3 NPR would be in HD. Is it true that the only HD AM is gospel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the sports talk on AM. Thanks



Strange, I though Digital CD Quality radio would far precede HDTV, When I inquired at Circuit City about recievers that would pick this up (to replace my 1981 Pioneer SX-3700 reciever) about 6-8 months back, I was told this type of recieveing equipment was way high end & would not be available to the general public for quite some years... I was then told there recievers are now becoming Sirrius/Xm compatable (there we go with the monthly fee again).


So, I really hadn't done research on this, last year when my brother visited he rented a '04 or '05 Cobalt with some radio that actually scrolled the song across the display (No I don't have new cars either, seldom do I ever even ride in one newer than a 1996) So when is this technology becoming available? reason I haven't upgraded my Reciever in 26 years?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Bismark, yeah, it was the same when I called Comcast when I was getting my tv a couple years ago..they told me I wouldn't get any hd content, not even local's, without their cable box...of course, they either don't know wtf they are talking about, or they are just lying.



Desmo, I'm in Mentor too so likely I'm looking at the same setup, although I personally don't have cable, my neighbor does, when I plugged the cable directly into the set (as the increase to $86/month for the digital box that kept screwing up anyway became too much, 4 burned out boxes within 15 months.. reliable eh?), it seemed I was continuously resetting her cable box, which became an annoyance, unplug it for a day plug it back in seems to work fine for a few days ect.... often had to bypass the box anyway.... so HBO & SHO is gone.. big deal it was becoming more trouble than what it was worth.


Seems the locals are around 111, & 118, with Fox being currently on 83-2, your 40 plus digital music channels are on 115-1 through 50 something.


Occasionally they change or I'm finding new things, not everything is there, I did find the GSN & ESPN in digital, a lot of the channels are black, yet they still autoprogrammed.


With the cable directly into the set, WS is now available, the picture is far superio, the CS at Comcast & TW said another box had to be rented for HD (along with another fee), I found otherwise.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really like to listen to the morning shows on 850 am during my commute.



I Miss the Grouch Club Myself


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mavtv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's the old Society Center building downtown.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Tower



Perhaps where WRAP's Transmitter is.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While HD radio does produce a nice clean sound, it still nothing more then some corporation telling you what you should listen too, along with a whole bunch of commercials. It's hard to put quality into crap.
> 
> 
> Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.



Initally too, cable TV had 2 concepts, first to bring TV into areas that lacked it, second to provide commercial free programming for a paid premium... though now wghen I was trying to find something on my brothers cable in Miami/Dade Comcast, I was still hard pressed to find anythinfg other than infomercials.


Eventually Commercialisim will end up on XM/Sirrius when everyone is hooked, I'll agree, I quit listening to Stern when he became more commercials than himself & he was constanttly trying to sell me something, same goes with Rover, I'm getting disgusted, well there is always CD''s & Cassettes for the Car.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mavtv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From the corporate website, they are an asian broadcaster. I found this asian broadcaster imaginasia.tv that is expanding its operations thoughout the US and are looking for stations to take the programming they offer and they like to buy blocks of airtime on stations. Most of their programming is either in english or is subtitled in english, so if WOAC takes their programming it would not be a total loss. Their angle is on the cultural and not so much the language. From the promos on their website the shows don't look too bad if they would air them but multicultural also has SINO Television which is Chinese language 24/7.
> 
> 
> This from the multicultural website: SINO Television
> 
> 
> Sino Television is the only *24 hour Chinese language* television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Launched in 1998, Sino Television offers a comprehensive schedule of *Chinese language* programming including news, sports, entertainment, financial reports, drama, cooking shows, community programs and movies.
> 
> Sino Television is available on Time Warner Cable channels 78, 501, 502 and Cablevision 238 in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region.
> *With the newly acquired television stations by MRBI's television group, Sino Television is expanding its broadcast coverage to reach Chinese television program audience in the major U.S. cities.*
> 
> 
> Also: Sino Television Broadcasting
> 
> 
> Sino Television is the only 24 hour Chinese language television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Available via cable TV, satellite TV, IPTV, and *soon broadcast TV*.
> 
> 
> I think by airing imaginasia.tv they have a better shot of sucess since it is programming that for the most part is in english and has cross over appeal but all Chinese in a market that has a total asian houshold of 20,460 or 1.4% and Asian market # 30 you have to be kidding me. Now if the infomation on the corporate website is correct we now have 2 waste frequencies. Just check out the links and see for yourself.



So the speculation that WAOC is going Chinese? so we will have a Cantoneeese Flair here to TV, how ironic.....







I can only get 23 out of Akron, I don't consider WAOC in the Cleveland DMA.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, I really hadn't done research on this, last year when my brother visited he rented a '04 or '05 Cobalt with some radio that actually scrolled the song across the display (No I don't have new cars either, seldom do I ever even ride in one newer than a 1996) So when is this technology becoming available? reason I haven't upgraded my Reciever in 26 years?



You're describing a feature named RDS (Radio Data System) which has been available from some analog stations for a few years now and this is different than "HD Radio."


"HD Radio" same garbage as normal radio, just wrapped in a shiny new marketing package. If you can swallow the monthly fees for "satellite" radio then DO IT because my experience with XM over D* has been very satisfying. If you cannot afford a monthly radio fee get a MP3 player and load it up with your favorite tunes.


----------



## Andrew K

I haven't bought an HD radio yet for a couple reasons. The receiver is too expensive and good sound isn't the same as a good picture. Our ears can only detect so much difference in sound anyways, and it's not worth a couple hundred dollars more to me.


Another thing is that a digital FM radio station sounds like an extremely bad idea to me. It has been mentioned that digital stations only reach 60% of the analog coverage. If I'm driving around town, I don't want to hear a low digital signal going on and off constantly. I'd rather hear a fuzzy signal so I don't miss anything. At least I can listen to distant stations through analog that I wouldn't hear anything through digital.


About satellite radio... I like the stations that XM offers, but I don't like the idea of paying for radio. I have about 8 presets on my AM/FM radio that I can usually find something good on, and that's good enough for me.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, I really hadn't done research on this, last year when my brother visited he rented a '04 or '05 Cobalt with some radio that actually scrolled the song across the display.



That was probably a satellite radio receiver but it could also have been a receiver that used RDS(Radio Data System). RDS is able to transmit small amounts of digital information using the station's FM carrier. I think it is much more common in Europe than the U.S.. A friend of mine had a Nissan Altima a few years ago that had a factory installed RDS capable radio. I played around with it tuning into various channels in the area and it seemed that almost all of the ones I tuned into supported it and displayed the song title and artist that were playing at that moment. This system has nothing to do with HD Radio and has been around a lot longer.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So the speculation that WAOC is going Chinese? so we will have a Cantoneeese Flair here to TV, how ironic.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can only get 23 out of Akron, I don't consider WoaC in the Cleveland DMA.



WOAC Canton, OH is in the Cleveland DMA, in fact their transmitter is actually in Portage County just south of Kent (Brimfield or Suffield). Former owners (before Scripps/SAH) was PAXON. They moved the tower. This was a smart move for now the signal reaches Cuyahoga County better than 23 or 49. I wished they would have moved 23 as well (they did own both stations at the time). The current tower location for 23 & 49 is bad for most of Cuyahoga County. The signal gets blocked northward by high terrain (Richfield - where the "summit" of Summit County is located). This was done on purpose years ago to "protect" WEWS' ABC affilliation since WAKR-TV was also an ABC affillliate, first on 49 then on 23. Once the ABC affilliation went away on these 2 channels there was no more reason to continue the northward "protection".


Anyone with "deep pockets" could buy time on WOAC and make a decent station out of her










What would you like to see on WOAC? How about some "classic TV" for the early 60's? I'd love to see reruns of shows like "Route 66".


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOAC Canton, OH is in the Cleveland DMA, in fact their transmitter is actually in Portage County just south of Kent (Brimfield or Suffield). Former owners (before Scripps/SAH) was PAXON. They moved the tower. This was a smart move for now the signal reaches Cuyahoga County better than 23 or 49. I wished they would have moved 23 as well (they did own both stations at the time). The current tower location for 23 & 49 is bad for most of Cuyahoga County. The signal gets blocked northward by high terrain (Richfield - where the "summit" of Summit County is located). This was done on purpose years ago to "protect" WEWS' ABC affilliation since WAKR-TV was also an ABC affillliate, first on 49 then on 23. Once the ABC affilliation went away on these 2 channels there was no more reason to continue the northward "protection".
> 
> 
> Anyone with "deep pockets" could buy time on WOAC and make a decent station out of her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you like to see on WOAC? How about some "classic TV" for the early 60's? I'd love to see reruns of shows like "Route 66".



Turn it into a real independent station like WUAB used to be.


----------



## T3ddyG

I got an email back from 90.3 WCPN, they are going to begin broadcasting HD-Radio sometime this year, but have no concrete date.


As for the commercialism on radio, and all the complaining - my opinion is - who cares? If you are unhappy with it, by all means, pay for satellite service, or get an ipod. The radio is a business just like any other, and to say that XM is the end all be all, is simply not true. I used their service for nearly a year - there are plenty of commercials on it. And to be honest, occasionally I would be surprised by the song I heard (wow, this is on the radio?! ) but for the most part it was just the same old stuff. I get way better selection from my ipod (after all, I make the selections!) and I got that for free.


I didn't bring up HD-Radio just to start a pissing match. It's just a feature that is pretty commonly available on car audio head units, and was curious about the availability in the Cleveland market.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If your happy with that commercial crap they feed you on FM, that's up to you. XM is more for the free thinking person.



Why? Do I get to select the individual songs that are played for me? I take offense to the categorization, as FM and XM are identical: they are both media in which someone else makes the choices as to what I hear. If anything, XM is worse in that I'm paying to be force fed. Yes, there are a lot more channels to choose from. But I would still be paying to hear someone else's decision as to what I'm supposed to be hearing.


Personally, I think my iPod is more for the thinking person. I get to choose exactly what I want to hear and when I want to hear it.


Sorry, I'll let you all get back on topic now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> II didn't bring up HD-Radio just to start a pissing match. It's just a feature that is pretty commonly available on car audio head units, and was curious about the availability in the Cleveland market.



It's not gotten to that point at all, and since I'm the only one who mentioned XM as being the best thing going I take a bit of offense about that.


Let me just say this. FM radio when it started out was not like it is today. If you think you know what early FM was and if your under 50, you really don't have a clue.


I listen almost exclusively to Deep Tracks on XM because it plays my type of Rock and it plays songs you don't hear on "Classic Rock" stations. They play new music by the artist that I like. I can't hear my artist anymore because of the absolute takeover by Clear Channel and Infinity of every radio station out there. And the few that arn't owned by those two still play the same songs over and over again. WONE is an example but they too play the same songs daily over and over.


Now as far as commercials go, yes, they have them on the comedy channels and I guess some talk radio, but not the music channels.


As far as I'm concerned XM is radio like I remember, where you can say what you want to say and you arn't limited to a 200 song play list.


You'd have to of been there to know what I'm talking about.


----------



## akron05

I prefer Sirius. They have a better selection of rare 80s rock and metal on the Buzzsaw and Hair Nation channels than XM has on Boneyard.


----------



## T3ddyG

Deep tracks is the only reason I kept my sub to XM for nearly a year =]


----------



## dleising

WOAC's tower is in Brimfield, right of 76. I pass it every day, I usually see cars there so at least they still have people working for them...


And BTW, I have Sirius, and love it. I'd rather spend 100 bucks for a year subscription to get 100 plus (mostly commercial free) music and talk stations on Sirius than coughing up 100+ for an HD radio that has not even gone mainstream yet.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As for the commercialism on radio, and all the complaining - my opinion is - who cares? If you are unhappy with it, by all means, pay for satellite service, or get an ipod. The radio is a business just like any other, and to say that XM is the end all be all, is simply not true. I used their service for nearly a year - there are plenty of commercials on it. And to be honest, occasionally I would be surprised by the song I heard (wow, this is on the radio?! ) but for the most part it was just the same old stuff. I get way better selection from my ipod (after all, I make the selections!) and I got that for free.
> 
> 
> I didn't bring up HD-Radio just to start a pissing match. It's just a feature that is pretty commonly available on car audio head units, and was curious about the availability in the Cleveland market.



I'm just wondering when I can get a reciever that actually does more than my 26 year old one, & at a reasonable cost too, the only difference I see is the AM X Band, & this 5 to 1 thing if I can strategicly run wires all over a room.


No pissing match, Cleveland's radio choices really do suck, compared to most cities. It's like pissing contests between the stations to follow the leader. There are so many sub formats that are missed such as an Old School R&B, Disco, Metal (Remember Z-Rock?... ended up on WRNO Shortwave rebroadcast of their FM affiliate out of New Orleans, & WVCC in Linesville PA which I actually could pick up here most of the time).


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOAC Canton, OH is in the Cleveland DMA, in fact their transmitter is actually in Portage County just south of Kent (Brimfield or Suffield). Former owners (before Scripps/SAH) was PAXON. They moved the tower. This was a smart move for now the signal reaches Cuyahoga County better than 23 or 49. I wished they would have moved 23 as well (they did own both stations at the time). The current tower location for 23 & 49 is bad for most of Cuyahoga County. The signal gets blocked northward by high terrain (Richfield - where the "summit" of Summit County is located). This was done on purpose years ago to "protect" WEWS' ABC affilliation since WAKR-TV was also an ABC affillliate, first on 49 then on 23. Once the ABC affilliation went away on these 2 channels there was no more reason to continue the northward "protection".
> 
> 
> Anyone with "deep pockets" could buy time on WOAC and make a decent station out of her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you like to see on WOAC? How about some "classic TV" for the early 60's? I'd love to see reruns of shows like "Route 66".



Strange, although 23's transmitter is farther from me I can pick them up on the Outdoor Antenna, where 67 is also according to the FCC map within my range I don't even get a blip on 67, audio or video ...


Seems that 23 digital will even go further out where 67's digital will actually shave Lake county out again (not like I get it now).


Turn it into an independent?? that would be nice, wishful thinking, I think those days unfortunately are gone, I would really like to pull in the CAT 35/29, seems like some good nostalga on there.!







I'll have less choice up here after 2009.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That was probably a satellite radio receiver but it could also have been a receiver that used RDS(Radio Data System). RDS is able to transmit small amounts of digital information using the station's FM carrier. I think it is much more common in Europe than the U.S.. A friend of mine had a Nissan Altima a few years ago that had a factory installed RDS capable radio. I played around with it tuning into various channels in the area and it seemed that almost all of the ones I tuned into supported it and displayed the song title and artist that were playing at that moment. This system has nothing to do with HD Radio and has been around a lot longer.



Sounds right, but they are broadcasitng that information , Why just limit this technology to just a car radio? (I find it rather busy myself to be averting my eyes to look a the radio), this same technology is sparcely available on a home reciever, Why??.


I did have a radar detector too that recieves SRS Warning systems that were actually useful, but aren't used much.... a shame.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not gotten to that point at all, and since I'm the only one who mentioned XM as being the best thing going I take a bit of offense about that.
> 
> 
> Let me just say this. FM radio when it started out was not like it is today. If you think you know what early FM was and if your under 50, you really don't have a clue.
> 
> 
> I listen almost exclusively to Deep Tracks on XM because it plays my type of Rock and it plays songs you don't hear on "Classic Rock" stations. They play new music by the artist that I like. I can't hear my artist anymore because of the absolute takeover by Clear Channel and Infinity of every radio station out there. And the few that arn't owned by those two still play the same songs over and over again. WONE is an example but they too play the same songs daily over and over.
> 
> 
> You'd have to of been there to know what I'm talking about.



I'm somewhat under 50, so enlighten me. Are we speaking of the old AOR/Progressive rock formats that are all gone?


Speaking of "Gone" just what is top 40 anymore? I don't believe it exists, just like listening for 24 hours & not hearing one song repeting?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm somewhat under 50, so enlighten me. Are we speaking of the old AOR/Progressive rock formats that are all gone?
> 
> 
> Speaking of "Gone" just what is top 40 anymore? I don't believe it exists, just like listening for 24 hours & not hearing one song repeting?



In the very early days there were no formats. That was the whole point. You could hear anything, I'm talking around 1968. You might hear "Iron Butterfly" followed by "Steppenwolf" for "heavy" rock but it was presented in logical sets that had meaning. You may hear an old blues tune if it fit, followed by a poetry reading. I mean it was totally and absolutely free.


One other thing. The DJ's selected the music so you would have certain DJ's that you would like better then others. I remember one called "The Rabbitt" who was fond of country music quite a bit but would just say the most outrageous things. I recalled he was saying how Mary Turner, the disk jockey who was following him was coming on next. He always called her Ms. Mammaries. One time I remember him saying "Alot of people ask me why I call her Ms. Mammaries. It's because they told me I couldn't say tits on the radio."










When Nixon resigned the station I listened too, KMET in Los Angeles (do a google, it's a very famous station) played "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead." Irreverant, hillarious, controversial and most of all INTELLIGENT radio.


Eventually they fell in the AOR format, remained popular for several years but by the time the 80's had come around most all radio was tightly formatted and already on the decline even before corporate take over. I met a big wig back in the 1990's from Clear Channel who happened to be the husband for the female disk jockey Mary Turner I spoke of above. I experessed my concerns about radio to him and basically he told me that I was a "dinosaur" and that people wern't intelligent enough to care what they here anymore on the radio, you just find a format and a few songs and feed it to them over and over again.


That meeting occurred before XM and Sirius.


I'm not presenting this as an argument, I hope that I gave you a feel of what it was like when FM first came about.


----------



## Andrew K

There are a lot of possibilities for WOAC. Someone had mentioned that Multicultural Broadcasting may use WOAC to show many English programs, so this introduces many good things for us. Personally, I think that this station can do very well if they aired some older programs and some classic sitcoms that have been taken over by way too many newscasts and court shows. Movies would also be a good idea.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are a lot of possibilities for WOAC. Someone had mentioned that Multicultural Broadcasting may use WOAC to show many English programs, so this introduces many good things for us. Personally, I think that this station can do very well if they aired some older programs and some classic sitcoms that have been taken over by way too many newscasts and court shows. Movies would also be a good idea.



Speaking of older programs, I just was looking up some of the Old Ultra Man, & Johnny Sokko series they used to show on the independents, too costly now on DVD though. (Shouldn't these be in Public Domain by now?).


& Now Poker All night on NBC? (Better than the infomertials I guess)


I think this kind of relates to the radio thread here, the indy's were swallowed up by the corporate giants & we are now forced fed court, & talk shows.... The bill on TV operation is so high now, created by the monster that we likely will never see this type of programming on unless the LP stations (that I cannot recieve) pick this up.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the very early days there were no formats. That was the whole point. You could hear anything, I'm talking around 1968. You might hear "Iron Butterfly" followed by "Steppenwolf" for "heavy" rock but it was presented in logical sets that had meaning. You may hear an old blues tune if it fit, followed by a poetry reading. I mean it was totally and absolutely free.
> 
> 
> One other thing. The DJ's selected the music so you would have certain DJ's that you would like better then others. I remember one called "The Rabbitt" who was fond of country music quite a bit but would just say the most outrageous things. I recalled he was saying how Mary Turner, the disk jockey who was following him was coming on next. He always called her Ms. Mammaries. One time I remember him saying "Alot of people ask me why I call her Ms. Mammaries. It's because they told me I couldn't say tits on the radio."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I can remember the Early '70's FM if this is what you speak of, (this all sounds like Ecletic Format College Radio, which I haven't listened to in ages either), later came Automation & something called Color Block Programming that induced many formats into one station at different times of the day.


Even in the Early '90s I came across an FM Station while traveling in WVA that was alternating Natalie Cole With Warrant & Barbara Striesan, then Ratt... strange mix...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Eventually they fell in the AOR format, remained popular for several years but by the time the 80's had come around most all radio was tightly formatted and already on the decline even before corporate take over. I met a big wig back in the 1990's from Clear Channel who happened to be the husband for the female disk jockey Mary Turner I spoke of above. I experessed my concerns about radio to him and basically he told me that I was a "dinosaur" and that people wern't intelligent enough to care what they here anymore on the radio, you just find a format and a few songs and feed it to them over and over again.
> 
> 
> I'm not presenting this as an argument, I hope that I gave you a feel of what it was like when FM first came about.



TY for your insight on this hookbill, I just detest everything with a monthly fee, & to see that turn into just about the same crap we get for free anyway. What we can do is just about boycott the sponsors, I guess I'm reseliant to subliminal advertising, but like I did with Howard Stern, I just shut him off when he became too commercialized... but then again I did the same thing with Christmas too!










(The Internet should actually be free too, just look at all the ads junk mail cookies we all put up with, slowing down my PC to where it becomes an aggravating experience... I just may pull the plug on it someday)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can remember the Early '70's FM if this is what you speak of, (this all sounds like Ecletic Format College Radio, which I haven't listened to in ages either), later came Automation & something called Color Block Programming that induced many formats into one station at different times of the day.
> 
> 
> Even in the Early '90s I came across an FM Station while traveling in WVA that was alternating Natalie Cole With Warrant & Barbara Striesan, then Ratt... strange mix...



WHat you are describing exists today in a few markets. It's called the "Jack" format. You get the same "DJ" for 24 hours, an automated system similar to the early days of automation (107.9 in '74 had a system - the robo-dj said the exact same thing every time the same song played, after awhile it got annoying sort of like "Groundhog Day".


Anyway this Jack format has what is called "train wrecks" - playing whatever the server drags up next regardless of what the previous song was. Iron Maden followed by Striesand.


BTW: for those of you who yearn for the old days of FM "progressive" radio you may like WYFM 102.9 out of Sharon PA (actually it's a Youngstown station recently sold). It comes in on my car radio when I'm on the eastern side of the hills here in Parma and Seven Hills. It's been awhile since I listened on a Saturday evening,but the last time I did they were playing "closet classics" - long lost lp tracks that were the mainstay of the old WNCR and WMMS. Songs like Funkadellic's "Maggot Brain", It's a Beautiful Day's "White Bird". If you remember these (I'm shure Hookbill does ) than you'd probably enjoy "Y-FM" (unless the new owners locked the closet). I still hear some of the "deep tracks" from time to time so perhaps the new owners have not messed with the format.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WHat you are describing exists today in a few markets. It's called the "Jack" format. You get the same "DJ" for 24 hours, an automated system similar to the early days of automation (107.9 in '74 had a system - the robo-dj said the exact same thing every time the same song played, after awhile it got annoying sort of like "Groundhog Day".



Well, even Jack has a playlist and the DJ's don't really pick the music, matter of fact I think most of those Jack stations are computerized and don't have disk jockeys.


It seems this is a generation thing. I know that over on the XM forum I see a great deal of people who don't want any disk jockeys and primarily they seem to be either the current generation or generation xers.


I like my music delivered with some thought and intelligence, kind of like make it an art, paint a musical picture. The DJ's of the early 60's and 70's use to be able to do that because they wern't stuck with playlists and even when they started getting playlists they were still flexible enough to come up with some good intelligent stuff. Jack just plays, well Jack.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I think we better get back to the subject of TV.


I just checked WOAC's schedule on the EPG of the Panasonic DVD recorder we have here at work (hooked to Cox Cable). In the EPG they still list "Jewelery TV" and "Coin Vault" for most of the day, the only real "programming" is their FCC required "E/I"stuff on Wednesday mornings (4 hours of New Zoo Review starting @ 7:30 AM, followed by "Ask Gilby" @9:30 AM and "Summit Focus" at 10:00 AM). I know this can't be correct, the infomercials I saw were different than the Jewelery TV and Coin Vault they used to show. I hope COX updates this soon - if there is anything interesting on WOAC it should show up here.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking of older programs, I just was looking up some of the Old Ultra Man, & Johnny Sokko series they used to show on the independents, too costly now on DVD though. (Shouldn't these be in Public Domain by now?).
> 
> 
> & Now Poker All night on NBC? (Better than the infomertials I guess)
> 
> 
> I think this kind of relates to the radio thread here, the indy's were swallowed up by the corporate giants & we are now forced fed court, & talk shows.... The bill on TV operation is so high now, created by the monster that we likely will never see this type of programming on unless the LP stations (that I cannot recieve) pick this up.



Can someone explain why there are so many court shows and trashy talk shows? It seems like the locals had better programming just ten years ago with a variety of programs ranging from different sitcoms, game shows, real talk shows with better topics, and a smaller amount of newscasts. Does today's garbage actually get better ratings? That is why I believe that WOAC has a lot of options.


----------



## atperson100

Does anyone find the stretch WEWS does on some 4:3 content in their newscast annoying?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atperson100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone find the stretch WEWS does on some 4:3 content in their newscast annoying?



It's very annoying, and even worse is that they only do it sometimes. Some content is stretched, some is not.


----------



## Rijax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ....they were playing "closet classics" - long lost lp tracks that were the mainstay of the old WNCR and WMMS.



Boy, are you old!







I was a DJ on WNCR in 1971, '72, & '73. Nice that someone remembers. It was a wonderfully creative time for music and radio.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Boy, are you old!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was a DJ on WNCR in 1971, '72, & '73. Nice that someone remembers. It was a wonderfully creative time for music and radio.





Jack:

While I was a young teen at that time and more into Top 40 and Talk radio then, It is very cool to hear from you!


----------



## Shark73

Is WOIO still planning on 5.1 sound for the Super Bowl?


Thanks,


Jim


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WOIO still planning on 5.1 sound for the Super Bowl?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jim



I haven't heard anything different. I hope they carry it right through to Criminal Minds right after the Super Bowl.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ....this all sounds like Ecletic Format College Radio, which I haven't listened to in ages....



That's too bad. You don't know what you're missing.










"Jimmie Wilson", WRUW, Cleveland


----------



## atperson100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's very annoying, and even worse is that they only do it sometimes. Some content is stretched, some is not.



Worst of all, it's also on their analog feed. So those viewers are not even getting the full picture anymore. I think I'd much rather have those sidebars... I wonder why they do it for some content, but not all


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rijax* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Boy, are you old!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was a DJ on WNCR in 1971, '72, & '73. Nice that someone remembers. It was a wonderfully creative time for music and radio.



I was an Engineer at WIXY-1260, then Chief Engineer at WXEN/WABQ. Later at WCLV. WNCR was better than WMMS (but I knew people at WMMS)


----------



## jtscherne

XM did a WIXY retrospective last month. I recorded it but still haven't had a chance to listen to it!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> XM did a WIXY retrospective last month. I recorded it but still haven't had a chance to listen to it!



According the the WIXY Tribute Site, XM did a WIXY retrospective before - like over a year ago.


If you can get WJCU-FM 88.7 (John Carroll University radio which used to be known as WUJC until '97) on Tuesday evenings form 6:00 - 9:00 they have a program called "Retro Radio". Hosted by Joe Madigan (a 20-something that sounds like he lived in the 60's - he even has a great knowledge of the rare tracks that never made it up the Hot 100 but did make it on the WIXY-60 charts).
http://www.retroradiotop40.com 

Too bad WJCU had to shut off the streaming due to prohibitive royalty payments.


----------



## jtscherne

WOIO was in 5.1 tonight for CSI: NY!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO was in 5.1 tonight for CSI: NY!



Must have been a repeat. My S3 didn't get it, but that's great news!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO was in 5.1 tonight for CSI: NY!



Yep, 5.1 audio is up and running on WOIO. Just watched the 10pm start of CSI:NY with the Kid Rock concert opening. (WOW cable here)


----------



## jtscherne

Letterman was a repeat, but was also in 5.1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Letterman was a repeat, but was also in 5.1.



Cool. Looks like they are on board and what a coincidence, just in time for sweeps (and Superbowl). Who'd of ever guessed that WOIO would come on board before WEWS. Time to start putting pressure on them now.


----------



## rlb

Can't believe it! Just confirmed that some "dumb" daytime game show is in DD 5.1 at WOIO.


Since I've been "bad mouthing" them for months about being cheap, I'm very pleased to acknowledge they spent the money and appear to have done a clean job with the transition.


Thank you WOIO. You now have the sound to go along with your excellent programming.


Now, if they would only get rid of their sub channels and give the entire bandwidth to their programming again.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...Now, if they would only get rid of their sub channels and give the entire bandwidth to their programming again.



They can't be committing much bandwidth to their weather subchannel... It looks terrible and fuzzy compared to Channel 3's...


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Early '90s I came across an FM Station while traveling in WVA that was alternating Natalie Cole With Warrant & Barbara Striesan, then Ratt... strange mix...



Ratt! Rock on!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ratt! Rock on!



Party on!







this was one of the few times I was able to listen to anything other than Country Music on these trips, I used to make the weekend trips to the Greenville/Spartanburg SC with an Ex GF, where they had a Megawatt Country Station there, (which was her favorite), I was able to hear this station up into Bluefield WVA many times & always clearly into Wythville VA along I77 even through the mountains.... musta been throwing some serious power.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's too bad. You don't know what you're missing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Jimmie Wilson", WRUW, Cleveland



"The Show that Never Ends" (Inspired by ELP's Karn Evil #9), classic rock show on WUJC around 1985-86 inthe the late morning afternoons. A Co-Workier in the Shop I worked at always tuned it in.


Again being in this RF hole, there are a few of these stations aren't heard out here.


----------



## hookbill

I called WEWS and left a message with an assistant chief engineer. I said that WOIO is now broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 which makes them the only major network station that isn't. I told him rumor had it that they would be broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 soon but nobody ever thought that the cheapest station in the world, WOIO would beat them to it. I asked him to let me know if he had any time frame on when they would be broadcasting in Dolby 5.1. My phone hasn't rang yet.


----------



## hookbill

I no sooner had made the post above and walked away to do something else when the phone rang. WEWS called and informed me that they just "now" got approval to purchase the equipment. That means they don't have it already like we had heard previously. He said that they will order it and cut the check and the latest they should be on board with Dolby 5.1 is in about 3 months.










Disappointing on one hand, but encouraging to hear that they are planning on getting it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I no sooner had made the post above and walked away to do something else when the phone rang. WEWS called and informed me that they just "now" got approval to purchase the equipment. That means they don't have it already like we had heard previously. He said that they will order it and cut the check and the latest they should be on board with Dolby 5.1 is in about 3 months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disappointing on one hand, but encouraging to hear that they are planning on getting it.



I guess it took WOIO's getting on board with DD5.1 to get WEWS off the stick. Too bad it takes so long to set-up. Let's hope it goes smoother than the launch of their HD newscast.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They can't be committing much bandwidth to their weather subchannel... It looks terrible and fuzzy compared to Channel 3's...



WOIO only allocates about 2 - 2.5 Mbps to the weather subchannel, so it doesn't compromise PQ of the main HD channel very much.


WKYC appears to have a variable bit rate and their weather channel usually averages about 4.5Mbps. I've seen it vary between 2Mbps - 6Mbps depending on the action on the HD channel.


----------



## atperson100

I think WOIO 19.1 is having audio issues. Was silent for most of the end of the 6pm news.. and a few minutes into the CBS Evening News, its just playing noise.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atperson100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think WOIO 19.1 is having audio issues. Was silent for most of the end of the 6pm news.. and a few minutes into the CBS Evening News, its just playing noise.



Who Wants to Be A Millionaire is on right now not in HD but in Dolby 5.1. Did hell really freeze over?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atperson100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think WOIO 19.1 is having audio issues. Was silent for most of the end of the 6pm news.. and a few minutes into the CBS Evening News, its just playing noise.



I didn't notice that, but I'm not sure they are doing their new DD 5.1 audio correctly.


My AV receiver is showing that they are sending a DD 5.1 signal even when the program is not encoded that way. As a comparison, WKYC and WJW do not send the DD 5.1 signal when the program is just in regular DD 2.0. My receiver does not show a DD 5.1 signal from those networks unless the program is actually in DD 5.1 (Primetime Shows, Jay Leno, Sports, etc).


It is not a big deal at all. Just an observation.


I'll have to check out CSI at 8 p.m. to know for sure if they are passing a real DD 5.1 signal.


Anyone else notice this?


----------



## terryfoster

Lots of stations operate that way (sending 5.1 all the time). It's kind of frustrating if they don't do a good stereo to surround conversion, but if done correctly it really isn't a problem. It's even worse if they don't convert at all which prevents your receiver from running a pro-logic type decoding, but I have only heard of one station that operates that way up in Dayton.


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Turn it into a real independent station like WUAB used to be.



Ya know what would be a good concept? Rebroadcasting a popular cable station like ESPN or TBS. I know it's possible, and I bet the station would make a killing off it.


----------



## atperson100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't notice that, but I'm not sure they are doing their new DD 5.1 audio correctly.
> 
> 
> My AV receiver is showing that they are sending a DD 5.1 signal even when the program is not encoded that way. As a comparison, WKYC and WJW do not send the DD 5.1 signal when the program is just in regular DD 2.0. My receiver does not show a DD 5.1 signal from those networks unless the program is actually in DD 5.1 (Primetime Shows, Jay Leno, Sports, etc).
> 
> 
> It is not a big deal at all. Just an observation.
> 
> 
> I'll have to check out CSI at 8 p.m. to know for sure if they are passing a real DD 5.1 signal.
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice this?



I'm using Windows Media Center--Only laptop speakers. I'm hearing commercials fine.. But CSI is only playing--what i think is the rear channel. Is anyone else having issues? If not, then I need to look a little closer at my decoder settings.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was an Engineer at WIXY-1260



Wow. I am not worthy...










I remember Jack "Yo LEEEEEEEEDAH" Armstrong referring to it as the "5000 watt pressure cooker." Was it really 5kw?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lots of stations operate that way (sending 5.1 all the time). It's kind of frustrating if they don't do a good stereo to surround conversion, but if done correctly it really isn't a problem. It's even worse if they don't convert at all which prevents your receiver from running a pro-logic type decoding, but I have only heard of one station that operates that way up in Dayton.



Ok, so WOIO is not sending their Center Channel. No dialogue in CSI right now, just music and side noises.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ya know what would be a good concept? Rebroadcasting a popular cable station like ESPN or TBS. I know it's possible, and I bet the station would make a killing off it.



This seems like it would be too good to be true. I can imagine that there is probably some law against it because of that. Of coarse this would take profits from cable companies, and that would be a crime.


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This seems like it would be too good to be true. I can imagine that there is probably some law against it because of that. Of coarse this would take profits from cable companies, and that would be a crime.



Why else do we get Univision and Home Shopping Channel OTA?


They always get all these low-rated channels. I have to wonder what'd happen if they got the bigger cable networks. Perhaps it'd open up a new life for OTA.


----------



## ahartman

Here's a head-scratcher.


I have a Terk TV-55 mounted outside on my chimney.


I'm in Strongsville - I can get all the digital channels except for 19.1.


Freq 2 (chan 3.1) - 94%

Freq 10 (chan 19.1) - 0-20, very erratic

Freq 15 (chan 5.1) - 92%

Freq 28 (chan 43.1) - 68%

Freq 31 (chan 8.1) - 92%

Freq 34 (chan 61.1) - 83%


Antennaweb shows 3.1, 5.1, 19.1, 43.1, 61.1 all to be the same general direction (70-72 degrees) so I'm confused as to the terribly erratic reception for CBS.


An amplifier doesn't help - readings stay the same on all channels. Cable run between antenna and the receiver (HD TiVo) is only about 30 feet with a single splice for a connection plate behind the AV stack.


Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).


Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a head-scratcher.
> 
> 
> I have a Terk TV-55 mounted outside on my chimney.
> 
> 
> I'm in Strongsville - I can get all the digital channels except for 19.1.
> 
> 
> Freq 2 (chan 3.1) - 94%
> 
> Freq 10 (chan 19.1) - 0-20, very erratic
> 
> Freq 15 (chan 5.1) - 92%
> 
> Freq 28 (chan 43.1) - 68%
> 
> Freq 31 (chan 8.1) - 92%
> 
> Freq 34 (chan 61.1) - 83%
> 
> 
> Antennaweb shows 3.1, 5.1, 19.1, 43.1, 61.1 all to be the same general direction (70-72 degrees) so I'm confused as to the terribly erratic reception for CBS.
> 
> 
> An amplifier doesn't help - readings stay the same on all channels. Cable run between antenna and the receiver (HD TiVo) is only about 30 feet with a single splice for a connection plate behind the AV stack.
> 
> 
> Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).
> 
> 
> Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.



I'm no expert but everyone says CBS comes in like crap cuz they have a weak signal.


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm no expert but everyone says CBS comes in like crap cuz they have a weak signal.



Shouldn't have trouble in Strongsville though. It's what, 4 miles from the Parma antenna farm?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atperson100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm using Windows Media Center--Only laptop speakers. I'm hearing commercials fine.. But CSI is only playing--what i think is the rear channel. Is anyone else having issues? If not, then I need to look a little closer at my decoder settings.



Yes, that is exactly what was happening on my OTA setup. WOIO must have fixed it later in the evening because the audio for Letterman was coming through great.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, that is exactly what was happening on my OTA setup. WOIO must have fixed it later in the evening because the audio for Letterman was coming through great.



I checked CSI at 9:58 and rewound it a bit. Sound was fine so I'm assuming the problem was on the first CSI that was shown at 8:00 pm which was a repeat.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).
> 
> 
> Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.



Doesn't sound like a signal strength issue. A decent unamplified indoor antenna should grab more than enough signal if it's pointed out a window towards Parma.


You may need to reposition your antenna to get WOIO-HD. Sometimes one position doesn't work for all the channels, even if they're in the same general direction and distance, and even if it has worked in the past.


If you don't want to mess with your outdoor antenna try this indoor model as a temporary fix, which is also sold as a Zenith ZHD-TV1 and known as the Silver Sensor. Even though it is a UHF antenna, it reliably pulls in WOIO-DT and WKYC-DT (which is also VHF) in addition to the local UHF stations.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Phili...oductDetail.do 


Also, you may also want to call Sears at the mall. I think that I had purchased one there about a year ago. It's not on their website, but they have products in the store that aren't shown online.


----------



## HDTD

I was watching WKYC Good Company and I just can't pin it...their HD news cameras look good, but the Good Company set looks not so good. Wondering if they just use SD studio cameras on the good company set, yet upconvert and pipe them through their HD control room?


Or are they HD cameras on Good Company, but it's just that the lighting is so bad? Anyone notice significant PQ loss on this program?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akron05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Shouldn't have trouble in Strongsville though. It's what, 4 miles from the Parma antenna farm?



I'm in North Royalton (about 1/2 mile north of Hinkley border). WOIO comes in just a strong as any of the others. Don't know make of my antenna; but it's on the back roof (back of house faces north toward Parma antenna farm) and it is one that Cleveland Antenna installed when I got my first HD set around 5 years ago. Because of its location (below roof line on back side of house), it isn't visible from the street. They charged $279 for the antenna and labor.


New subject: I can't believe that we will soon have DD 5.1 on all four of the Cleveland national networks. Only problem is that I recently got a Blu Ray player and the new/advanced audio codecs totally "blow away" DD 5.1.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a head-scratcher.
> 
> 
> Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).
> 
> 
> Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.



How's your picture on the analog 19 station? Sounds like you may have a multi-path issue.


If you notice a lot of "ghosting" on the the analog channel where it looks like a second image offset to the right a little bit, you're probably getting the digital signal in the same way. Problem is that the digital receiver sees the ghost as noise and isn't able to lock into the signal. Usually moving your antenna around a little bit is the only thing that will solve the problem. And by "a little bit," I mean either turning a few degrees or physically altering the location of the antenna if the reflections are bad enough.


I always found it interesting that when displaying signal strength, digital tuners are actually reporting only relative error rates. The lower the meter shows the signal as being, the higher the error rates actually are. So even if you're literally feet away from a broadcast antenna, your signal strength could read as "zero" if you've got a bad enough multi-path problem.


I had this problem with 19 in Medina. I was neverally actually able to fix it, as my antenna was in the attick over my garage. The aluminum siding was just bouncing the signal all over, and no amount of tweaking would bring it in reliably -- at least not without losing all of the other stations.


Getting cable took care of it, though....










Oh, by the way, WOIO isn't the only VHF channel. WKYC is even lower in the VHF band that OIO is, so I doubt seriously it's a problem with your antenna picking up VHF frequencies.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody notice that this thread, not counting the stickies, is the 13th most-viewed local thread on here? If you take out the locked threads at the top, we're actually the 8th best.


Not bad! Either that, or we just like to talk a lot....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not bad! Either that, or we just like to talk a lot....



Ya think?










That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ya think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.




LOL..On a lot of boards, going off topic..(the classic radio posts) gets you some nasty responses..or worse..


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was watching WKYC Good Company and I just can't pin it...their HD news cameras look good, but the Good Company set looks not so good. Wondering if they just use SD studio cameras on the good company set, yet upconvert and pipe them through their HD control room?
> 
> 
> Or are they HD cameras on Good Company, but it's just that the lighting is so bad? Anyone notice significant PQ loss on this program?



I've never watched Good Company, but I do notice that WKYC Sunday night sports mini-show after the 11pm news is usually SD stretch. Maybe they use the same studio.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.



You can say that again.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.













Seriously, though, I couldn't agree more. It's been a number of years since I got an HD set, and the novelty wore off shortly thereafter. But I'm still checking this thread multiple times a day just to see what everybody's up to. I think this truly is the longest I've ever stayed not only on one board but one particular message on that board.


Thanks, everybody.


*sniff* Anybody else feeling like a round of Kumbaya about now?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL..On a lot of boards, going off topic..(the classic radio posts) gets you some nasty responses..or worse..




Can we stay on topic please!












Glad to see the DD is up and running for the Super Bowl. I've been waiting for WOIO to go DD 5.1. It makes watching football so much better.


----------



## black88mx6

Anyone notice from 3-5 this afternoon Adelphia cable TV messed up? I was not home, but wife said that it was all channels. She didn't check to see if it was on the other set or not. Would like to think that it wasn't our big new flat screen giving us problems. We are off the Strongville feed south of Cleveland.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone notice from 3-5 this afternoon Adelphia cable TV messed up? I was not home, but wife said that it was all channels. She didn't check to see if it was on the other set or not. Would like to think that it wasn't our big new flat screen giving us problems. We are off the Strongville feed south of Cleveland.



Yeah, I guess it would be messed up, considering Adelphia no longer exist.










I'm in Bainbridge and I receive off the Cleveland Suburbs feed. No problem here. With Time Warner, that is.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I guess it would be messed up, considering Adelphia no longer exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in Bainbridge and I receive off the Cleveland Suburbs feed. No problem here. With Time Warner, that is.



Uh oh, looks like TWC will have to do more advertising and bill inserts to let customers know.










I wasn't here 3-5 PM today, but I have two recordings that are fine - one 3:30-4 PM and one starting at 5.


I'm on the TWC/ex-Adelphia branch serving western Summit County, which I think is tied in with Strongsville...


----------



## ahartman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How's your picture on the analog 19 station? Sounds like you may have a multi-path issue.



I have DirecTV for my locals, so I can't tell how the analog channel is. I'll pick up an indoor antenna to test out tomorrow. Maybe I can get reception for the game, anyway.


If it is a multipath issue, it stays - I'm not getting up on my roof in the middle of winter!


----------



## wd8kct

something I've wondered about...

when I listen to a Dolby transmission on the

stereo output of the digital receiver, am I listening

to a mixdown of the Dolby 5.1 or simply 2 of the 5.1

channels?


Ed...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like a signal strength issue. A decent unamplified indoor antenna should grab more than enough signal if it's pointed out a window towards Parma.
> 
> 
> You may need to reposition your antenna to get WOIO-HD. Sometimes one position doesn't work for all the channels, even if they're in the same general direction and distance, and even if it has worked in the past.
> 
> 
> If you don't want to mess with your outdoor antenna try this indoor model as a temporary fix, which is also sold as a Zenith ZHD-TV1 and known as the Silver Sensor. Even though it is a UHF antenna, it reliably pulls in WOIO-DT and WKYC-DT (which is also VHF) in addition to the local UHF stations.
> 
> http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Phili...oductDetail.do
> 
> 
> Also, you may also want to call Sears at the mall. I think that I had purchased one there about a year ago. It's not on their website, but they have products in the store that aren't shown online.



I can literally see the tower lights for nearly every Cleveland station out my back patio door or side window. I also have a Silver Sensor. The only time I could get a lock on WKYC 3.1 was when the "SS" was aimed *sideways* and it was unstable. This tells me that the Silver Sensor itself is no good at low band VHF. It was probably getting the WKYC signal through the co-ax somehow.


I ended up grabbing an old pair of rabbit ears for WKYC & WOIO (which fortunately are next-door neighbors here at the "farm") using a VHF/UHF combiner. I put a UHF "hoop" style antenna on the UHF side of the combiner aimed at WUAB looking out my side window (more or less the center of the pack from my POV). I use 2 A/B switches, one side has the above combiner onthe A side, the B side is my rooftop Radio Shack 15-2160 which is aimed at Youngstown for WKBN-DT (it also gets WOAC-DT). The output of that A/B swith is the A side of the second A/B switch. The B side of the second swith is the Silver Sensor which is aimed at Akron for WEAO-DT, WDLI-DT, and WVPX-TV.


It's a mess, but it works.


BTW: I got my SS at Sears at Southland. I had the Radio Shack at Parmatown find the 15-2160 at another store and it was sent to their store for me.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've never watched Good Company, but I do notice that WKYC Sunday night sports mini-show after the 11pm news is usually SD stretch. Maybe they use the same studio.




This is suprisingly not stretched.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> something I've wondered about...
> 
> when I listen to a Dolby transmission on the
> 
> stereo output of the digital receiver, am I listening
> 
> to a mixdown of the Dolby 5.1 or simply 2 of the 5.1
> 
> channels?
> 
> 
> Ed...



You said you have a digital receiver, I believe your referring to your amp. If it is digital it should have some dolby settings. However if you don't have a 5.1 set up and you have your receiver set to "PCM Stereo" then that is what you receive so I guess the answer would be a mixdown of the Dolby 5.1. You wouldn't only receive two channels, there can be so much you would miss (like people talking in the hall, sirens, music etc.). Do you have a "Virtual Surround" as a selection on your receiver? That works pretty nicely.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You said you have a digital receiver,
> 
> I believe your referring to your amp.



Nope... I meant the digital ATSC receiver...

when listening to the stereo output during

a surround sound program, am I listening to a

mixdown or 2 of the 5.1 channels?


Ed...


----------



## Andrew K

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.



I would LOVE to see PBS in HD via OTA. Hopefully, both WVIZ and WEAO can work out their issues soon.


To be honest..... I don't really care about WVPX. They really don't offer any programming that I want to watch. Even when they do go digital, I doubt the signal will be any better than what I get now. 23 comes is crystal clear on analog. I really doubt they will be offering any HD programming even when they do go digital.


As for WBNX, I was speaking with someone at work about that station the other day. He said that recently WBNX was putting bumpers in during some commercial breaks about their digital conversion. They said to expect some brief outages while they convert to digital. Now, I haven't seen these bumpers with my own eyes, so I'd take that statement with a grain of salt. I won't believe it till I see it.


The WBNX site still says that they expect to go live with digital in April 2007 for OTA. It would be great if the station was actually ahead of schedule with their upgrade. I actually watch one or two shows on WBNX during Prime Time. Seeing those shows in HD would be a big bonus. What ever happened to them providing the digital signal to Cable and Satellite in the Fall of 2006? I guess that fizzled out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope... I meant the digital ATSC receiver...
> 
> when listening to the stereo output during
> 
> a surround sound program, am I listening to a
> 
> mixdown or 2 of the 5.1 channels?
> 
> 
> Ed...



Your listening to stereo. It's like if I activated my TV's sound system. My TV does not do Dolby, it does do a simulated surround however, but the signal it would be working off of would be stereo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.



I'm not sure WVIZ multicast now. I'll get back to you on that but I could have sworn last time I look that their HD and regular programing was not the same.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope... I meant the digital ATSC receiver...
> 
> when listening to the stereo output during
> 
> a surround sound program, am I listening to a
> 
> mixdown or 2 of the 5.1 channels?
> 
> 
> Ed...



To use your word, you are listening to a "mixdown". You are getting the full signal; not just 2 channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.



Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.



What does the DT stand for ( Digital Transmission ?) ?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.



I'm pretty sure WVIZ-DT does have at least one multicast channel, the public affairs channel The Ohio Channel. TWC carries it, at least in the ex-Adelphia areas, right around where WKYC Weather Plus is. (181 if I remember right.)


The Ohio Channel is basically the Columbus version of C-SPAN.


----------



## hookbill

I ordered a Samsung LN-S1952W 19" HD LCD television for the bedroom. Hooray, I can watch HD in the bed at night without disturbing my birds.


This is great! Except........


TW is coming out to install an additional outlet and an HD box. And it appears that it will be the SA 8300!!!!!


I told them I didn't want a DVR and they said fine, you won't get charged for it as a DVR but they only use the "combo" boxes now. It cost 10.95 a month for the extra box.


Now does that mean that I COULD use it still as a DVR? Not that I want to but considering they were charging me 8 bucks for the service an 5.00 for the box before.


Anyway it looks like the dreaded SA 8300 will return...for a while. Once the S3 gets MRV and since the price has already come down a bit I'll probably get another S3.


----------



## ahartman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have DirecTV for my locals, so I can't tell how the analog channel is. I'll pick up an indoor antenna to test out tomorrow. Maybe I can get reception for the game, anyway.
> 
> 
> If it is a multipath issue, it stays - I'm not getting up on my roof in the middle of winter!



In case anyone is following this, I went out to Rat Shack and got a discontinued powered indoor antenna (15-1880) and fiddled with it enough to get the CBS HD channel (signal strength in the low 70s, plenty for a stable picture). I can't get any of the other HD channels (apparently it can't pull in the UHF channels in my basement), but at least I can watch the game tonite.


I'll just swap antenna leads as I need to since I don't watch much of anything on CBS. A bit of a kludge, but it'll work.


I had to point the antenna AWAY from the farm, so that kind of proves the multi-path issue, which was suggested earlier.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In case anyone is following this, I went out to Rat Shack and got a discontinued powered indoor antenna (15-1880) and fiddled with it enough to get the CBS HD channel (signal strength in the low 70s, plenty for a stable picture). I can't get any of the other HD channels (apparently it can't pull in the UHF channels in my basement), but at least I can watch the game tonite.
> 
> 
> I'll just swap antenna leads as I need to since I don't watch much of anything on CBS. A bit of a kludge, but it'll work.
> 
> 
> I had to point the antenna AWAY from the farm, so that kind of proves the multi-path issue, which was suggested earlier.



Why not get an AB switch and hook up both your antennae that way. It would make your life easier.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What does the DT stand for ( Digital Transmission ?) ?



Digital television. To distinguish the analog station (-TV) from the digital station (-DT)


----------



## Ward216

AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!

Now I know how Charlie Brown must feel trying to get WOIO-D to come in. Super Bowl in SD is a real let down. Maybe the NFL could have it in Mexico next year so I could get it on 61 which comes in at 98 on the meter....come to think of it - throw in some of those hotties from Telemundo & that would work just dandy.










-Ward

West Park


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would LOVE to see PBS in HD via OTA. Hopefully, both WVIZ and WEAO can work out their issues soon.



You and me both. I'm not real optimistic about WEAO. I think the major issue with them is money. They sent letters out to their members in December asking for more money so they could meet their budget. In the letter, one of the points they made was that their power bill was going to be much greater than budgeted for the next couple of years because of having to run both the analog and digital transmitters until the new analog shutoff date. Unless pledges increase or some business decides to underwrite them, I would not be surprised if there is NO HD on WEAO-DT until sometime after analog shutoff.


I don't have any insight on WVIZ-DT.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Digital television. To distinguish the analog station (-TV) from the digital station (-DT)



Thanks


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ahartman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In case anyone is following this, I went out to Rat Shack and got a discontinued powered indoor antenna (15-1880) and fiddled with it enough to get the CBS HD channel (signal strength in the low 70s, plenty for a stable picture). I can't get any of the other HD channels (apparently it can't pull in the UHF channels in my basement), but at least I can watch the game tonite.
> 
> 
> I'll just swap antenna leads as I need to since I don't watch much of anything on CBS. A bit of a kludge, but it'll work.
> 
> 
> I had to point the antenna AWAY from the farm, so that kind of proves the multi-path issue, which was suggested earlier.



Or use a standard cable splitter in reverse to combine the antenna signals into one with everything.


----------



## lefkas

Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You and me both. I'm not real optimistic about WEAO. I think the major issue with them is money. They sent letters out to their members in December asking for more money so they could meet their budget. In the letter, one of the points they made was that their power bill was going to be much greater than budgeted for the next couple of years because of having to run both the analog and digital transmitters until the new analog shutoff date. Unless pledges increase or some business decides to underwrite them, I would not be surprised if there is NO HD on WEAO-DT until sometime after analog shutoff.
> 
> 
> I don't have any insight on WVIZ-DT.



The issue is not all about money. Initially we had to wait for a federal grant to help pay for a large percentage of the cost. That grant has been approved. When we contacted the manufacturer of our automation software to get the upgrade they required, we were told some interesting news.

Our first generation automation software, server hardware and digital encoder are incompatible with the upgraded automation software. We can't insert anything into the digital HD stream we receive from PBS, or record any of those programs for later use, until we get the new software. Without making those insertions, or having the programs air from our servers, we can't broadcast the PBS-HD programs. We'll be shopping at the NAB show in April, money in hand, and fully expect to have our decisions made, equipment ordered and installed by the beginning of our next fiscal year, July 1, 2007.

Now if you'd like to become a member and contribute or if you are a member because you received the letter and now want to make an additional gift to keep us on the air, I'm not about to say 'no.' But the money to resolve this situation is not dependant on more members, corporate or foundation underwriting, or government grants. We're stuck because we are an early adopter of untested digital components that are no longer being serviced by their manufacturers. As for the increased utility costs, those are significant, but we budgeted for those.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## engineer760

I've heard rumours they are upgrading (cameras, switcher, router etc.) as we speak and could be finished and on the air with HD newscasts by end of February. Anyone know more?


----------



## JJkizak

It's amazing to me how the manufacturers treat the big guys the same as us little guy's-----------we are sorry but you have to buy all new stuff even though it is only 1 year old because we don't service that old stuff anymore. So I guess that old $30,000.00 mpeg2 encoder is only worth $500.00 now.


JJK


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?



I wanted to record the Superbowl using the OTA HD tuner card in my HTPC. I initially tuned to 19-1 in Cleveland and was getting occasional dropouts during the pregame so I switched over to 27-1 and it was solid as a rock. I noticed no problems and was getting a strong solid signal. I'm using a small UHF only antenna on the chimney and I'm in Springfield Township just SE of Akron. On another note I was glad I was able to tune in 21-1 earlier in the day for the PGA golf tournament. 3-1 was constantly using their analog upconvert to display the school closings so they actually showed very little of the tournament in HD. It is soooo nice to have alternatives.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.



WVIZ does multicast. Initially they did not include the main analog program inthe digital stream, but they recently made a change and now do carry the main SD stream.


Here is the line-up:


25.1 = PBS HD

25.2 = The Ohio Channel

25.3 = WVIZ SD (they dumped an audio only feed at 25.9 "CRRS" Cleveland Radio Relay Service for the blind)



WEAO/WNEO OTOH has this line-up

49.1 = "Create"

49.2 = WEAO/WNEO SD

49.3 = The Ohio Channel


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?



Not here. 27.1 was solid as a rock using my rooftop mounted antenna aimed at Youngstown.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The issue is not all about money. Initially we had to wait for a federal grant to help pay for a large percentage of the cost. That grant has been approved. When we contacted the manufacturer of our automation software to get the upgrade they required, we were told some interesting news.
> 
> Our first generation automation software, server hardware and digital encoder are incompatible with the upgraded automation software. We can't insert anything into the digital HD stream we receive from PBS, or record any of those programs for later use, until we get the new software. Without making those insertions, or having the programs air from our servers, we can't broadcast the PBS-HD programs. We'll be shopping at the NAB show in April, money in hand, and fully expect to have our decisions made, equipment ordered and installed by the beginning of our next fiscal year, July 1, 2007.
> 
> Now if you'd like to become a member and contribute or if you are a member because you received the letter and now want to make an additional gift to keep us on the air, I'm not about to say 'no.' But the money to resolve this situation is not dependant on more members, corporate or foundation underwriting, or government grants. We're stuck because we are an early adopter of untested digital components that are no longer being serviced by their manufacturers. As for the increased utility costs, those are significant, but we budgeted for those.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Thanks for the update. I know a lot of us here are anxious to see the end result!


----------



## Andrew K

Does anyone know of an online store, or anywhere for that matter, where I can get a remote for my Zenith HDV420 STB tuner at the cheapest price? My brother decided to grab it and break it into pieces








. The cheapest I can find is for around $40, but I don't know if I can get it any cheaper than that. Please Help!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of an online store, or anywhere for that matter, where I can get a remote for my Zenith HDV420 STB tuner at the cheapest price? My brother decided to grab it and break it into pieces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The cheapest I can find is for around $40, but I don't know if I can get it any cheaper than that. Please Help!!



Can't you just get the One For All for about 15.00 and program it for your STB?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can't you just get the One For All for about 15.00 and program it for your STB?



Can I get a universal remote for the HDV420? Would I still have all the same options? I like the fact that the actual remote has a one-touch signal indicator button.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We'll be shopping at the NAB show in April, money in hand, and fully expect to have our decisions made, equipment ordered and installed by the beginning of our next fiscal year, July 1, 2007.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Don, thanks for the reply. It seems like you were at about this point at this time last year, and when I received the letter in December, with the part about the expense of running two transmitters (esp high in the UHF band), I was just trying to put two and two together. But I know the federal grant process can take longer than expected.


I also thought that I had read somewhere that there was a new fee for the PBS HD programming that affiliates had to pay if they wanted to air these programs, and many stations were struggling to pay these fees, and thus pulling the HD programming off the air.


Anyway, good news and I look forward to HD on PBS 45/49 sometime this summer!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?



I was having problems with WOIO-DT on Saturday while watching the OSU-Mich St game, so I tried WKBN-DT, but I could not get a solid lock. I'm not sure, but I think the high winds may have been affecting my reception of WOIO-DT (and maybe WKBN-DT also) - it seems like whenever the wind settled down a bit, the signal steadied out. I was getting pixellation, occasional freezing of the picture and audio dropouts on WOIO-DT. Watchable, but annoying. The Dolby Digital was worthless - constantly dropping out.


WKBN-DT varies for me, sometimes I can get a solid lockable signal and sometimes not. It has always been harder for me to get WKBN-DT than WFMJ-DT.


As for WOIO-DT, I seem to be suffering from multipath problems over the past couple of months with them. The signal Strength (really error rate) meter bounces up and down a lot. Anybody else notice this from WOIO-DT more lately?


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's amazing to me how the manufacturers treat the big guys the same as us little guy's-----------we are sorry but you have to buy all new stuff even though it is only 1 year old because we don't service that old stuff anymore. So I guess that old $30,000.00 mpeg2 encoder is only worth $500.00 now.
> 
> 
> JJK



Unfortunately, the encoder is an Agilevision and the cost was approx. $350,000 in 2003.


----------



## GLuis

I'd like to commend W We can't C Channel 3 for their stupendous iAlert (idiot alert) work last night. Nothing like taking nice HDTV content and destroying it by running an unnecessary crawl of every school that is closed even in Tuscrawas County. Heaven forbid you run that info during your news cast later on or on your morning show.


The classic was the shrinking of the picture for the crawl then some Einstein decided to add a Winter Cold Weather advisory above that shrinking the picture to almost half height of my 42 plasma.


Well, it worked. I changed the channel to one that allowed for a full screen. Thank God Fox 8 had the smarts not to screw with 24 ;-) Amazingly, they announced the closings during their 10:00 news.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd like to commend W We can't C Channel 3 for their stupendous iAlert (idiot alert) work last night. Nothing like taking nice HDTV content and destroying it by running an unnecessary crawl of every school that is closed even in Tuscrawas County. Heaven forbid you run that info during your news cast later on or on your morning show.
> 
> 
> The classic was the shrinking of the picture for the crawl then some Einstein decided to add a Winter Cold Weather advisory above that shrinking the picture to almost half height of my 42 plasma.
> 
> 
> Well, it worked. I changed the channel to one that allowed for a full screen. Thank God Fox 8 had the smarts not to screw with 24 ;-) Amazingly, they announced the closings during their 10:00 news.



Yeah, that was really annoying....... I switched to CH 21 to watch Heroes in HD so I didn't have to put up with the iAlert on CH 3.


WFMJ was smart enough to run their school closings during the commercial breaks!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, that was really annoying....... I switched to CH 21 to watch Heroes in HD so I didn't have to put up with the iAlert on CH 3.
> 
> 
> WFMJ was smart enough to run their school closings during the commercial breaks!



Letterman was SD on WOIO for the same reason. Good thing I had my trusty Youngstown antenna! WKBN-DT in HD and crawl free!


The "big city" stations should learn a thing or two from the smaller market stations.


Hats off to both WFMJ & WKBN!


To be fair the "big city" stations have many more counties to serve than the Youngstown stations, however that still does not excuse them for wacking their HD programming for a list that:

a. could be had on the internet

b. could be had by the concerned parties calling up their local school district if a. is not an option.


95% of the viewers could care less if a certain school miles away is closed. The "old school" of broadcasting thought is that viewers would watch their annoying crawls wating, sometimes in vain, to see "their school" closed. It would be easier (shorter list) to list which school is still open!


----------



## dleising

School closings on TV is very competitive between the stations for some reason...


----------



## akron05




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wanted to record the Superbowl using the OTA HD tuner card in my HTPC. I initially tuned to 19-1 in Cleveland and was getting occasional dropouts during the pregame so I switched over to 27-1 and it was solid as a rock. I noticed no problems and was getting a strong solid signal. I'm using a small UHF only antenna on the chimney and I'm in Springfield Township just SE of Akron. On another note I was glad I was able to tune in 21-1 earlier in the day for the PGA golf tournament. 3-1 was constantly using their analog upconvert to display the school closings so they actually showed very little of the tournament in HD. It is soooo nice to have alternatives.



Lucky you! I can't lock 21.1 WFMJ digital at my house near Krumroy Road and 241 at all.


----------



## JJkizak

We sure could use a new button on the remote-----"crawl shutoff".


JJK


----------



## Andrew K

I too will add to the disgust of whichever Cleveland locals took off the HD content to display their crappy "school closing banner". I was particularly annoyed that Jay Leno wasn't in HD. Cleveland stations have a tendency to exagerrate stupid topics like weather and school closings. ... How about some real news!!!


----------



## Telosian

I enjoy watching Studio 60 and as soon as I saw the dreaded idiot crawl I shut it off and now will download the show from iTunes to watch uncluttered on my ipod! From 60 inches to 3 I would prefer to watch it in mousefartvision than destroyed with amazingly useless closings. What a perfect use for the weather sub channel systems!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I enjoy watching Studio 60




Me too, but it's going into hiatus in March.

http://www.tbo.com/life/MGB945IHTXE.html


----------



## Speedskater

Monster "Video2" cables at Marc's Drug stores. 1.5 meter & 2 meter with "F" connectors or RCA plugs about $6.00.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Monster "Video2" cables at Marc's Drug stores. 1.5 meter & 2 meter with "F" connectors or RCA plugs about $6.00.



Someone told me that Marc's at Southland was selling "HD Ready" flat screens for ~$400.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Monster "Video2" cables at Marc's Drug stores. 1.5 meter & 2 meter with "F" connectors or RCA plugs about $6.00.



Mine also has the Video2 cables as well as the Audio cables.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can I get a universal remote for the HDV420? Would I still have all the same options? I like the fact that the actual remote has a one-touch signal indicator button.



Check out this site:

http://www.remotecentral.com/ 


You should be able to find something to do the job.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Telosian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What a perfect use for the weather sub channel systems!



Ditto.


Maybe we won't be having this conversation in two years, when everybody's digital?


Nah, probably not. I mean, as someone else said, school closings are TV news competition...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joel.jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've heard rumours they are upgrading (cameras, switcher, router etc.) as we speak and could be finished and on the air with HD newscasts by end of February. Anyone know more?



From http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/1...-updates.html: 



> Quote:
> Not only that, the scuttlebutt is - and are you sitting down, folks? - that Raycom Media CBS/MyNetworkTV combo WOIO/19-WUAB/43's "19 Action News" is also getting ready for an HDTV local news conversion. The rumor mill says that was actually also supposed to be done next month, but will be delayed...so WEWS would presumably beat WOIO to the HD punch.



This was written before WEWS went live with their HD newscast.


----------



## hookbill

I just put a 19" HDTV in my bedroom. I bought a Samsung S1952W and ordered an additional outlet from TW.


I didn't want a DVR so they bring me out a Scientific Atlanta Explerer 3250 box. I'm telling the tech how I want it set up with my DVD player and he kept asking why, and I'd explain. When he was done he "proudly" showed me the picture and I asked him to redo guide set up as I wanted 480p, 720p (that's native), and 1080i. He said, no you can't do that with this box you can only do that with the SA 8300. I said, "really!" and turned off the box, pressed the "guide" and "info" key at the same time, and by golly if a set up wizard didn't pop up.


I continued guide set up and the tech was "Oh, I didn't know these were capable of that," and "well, I'm not much into this HD stuff. I like cars."










After he left I took all of his cables off as they were all way to long and used my cables. I also had to redo the hook up to the DVR as I wanted it to be able not onlyt to receive analog channels, I wanted it to receive the digital off the box via line one. I told him that but I guess he didn't understand that either.










My techs are comeing out of the Concord office now, not the Macedonia office. I was told that I would probably see a decrease in quality and so far in two visits that has been true.


One last thing: My S3 is now getting all channels. I was missing 3 channels and no volume on one and I got a name and eventually a number of someone who woks in head end and is the go to person for cable cards. It took her a while but she worked on it daily and also was contacted by a TiVo engineer due to my documenting the problem in the TiVo forum. The problem was on Time Warners side and she fixed everything.


----------



## Telosian

Golly Hook! That is one scary story. Makes you feel totally amazed when you find somebody competent doing their job, someone who can actually do it better than you and can (gasp) add some value? I know, I live in a dream world.


----------



## Michael P 2341

You should be on the TW payroll Hook!


You should train all their techs.


The Concord office sends techs to Twinsburg







By the time they arrive it's a wonder they still know their name










That decision had to me made by someone unfamilliar with the territory. You'd think they would have used a centralized office rather than one on the farthest end of the system.


----------



## JJkizak

Being "TV station dependent" I guess is easier than being "Cable dependent" or "Satellite dependent" and a bit cheaper but then I guess you become "channel selection deprived".


JJK


----------



## gass

Trust me, that type of management is running rampant throughout many tech based companies, specifically wireless carriers who will remain nameless










Now back to HDTV


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should be on the TW payroll Hook!
> 
> 
> You should train all their techs.



If they would allow me to work out of the home that would be great!


Working with Jo Anne about the missing channel problems we spoke with several people who worked in different areas of TW. She spoke of me as a "tech savay" customer, and boy did my head swell. The truth is if I'm "tech savay" I don't hold a candle to most of you guys. I learn most of what I know from you and others in this forum.


----------



## paule123

Scrolling through my SA8300HD guide today, I noticed WOW has a whole bunch of channel names ending in "OD" that are labeled "Testing - coming soon". I assume they're getting ready to launch a bunch of on-demand channels. Cartoon Network on-demand, Starz on-demand, etc.


----------



## SuperAmmo

Being stuck in Athens 8 months per year while I'm in college, I have to say I miss the Cleveland stations. Of course, the social scene around here more than cancels out. I hate the Columbus and West Virginia locals around here, they feel so low rent. WBNS is the only one that feels "legit."


What really pisses me off is that OU uses its own proprietary cable system based off of Time Warner Athens, but they don't have any of the TWC digital stations, so my QAM tuner can't pick up the HD. Good luck with an antenna too.


Can't wait to get off campus and get real TWC.


Just a general reply.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Scrolling through my SA8300HD guide today, I noticed WOW has a whole bunch of channel names ending in "OD" that are labeled "Testing - coming soon". I assume they're getting ready to launch a bunch of on-demand channels. Cartoon Network on-demand, Starz on-demand, etc.



Were they in the 800s?


----------



## Andrew K

They're at it again. The locals are showing the school-closing bar at the bottom of the screen. I'm wondering why they can't show HD content whenever their school closing or weather graphics are on the screen. It's annoying.


----------



## JJkizak

Fox is the only one that has it right. NBC shrinks down the picture not distorting the aspect. CBS is a disaster.

Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was snowin.

Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was rainin.

Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me the wind was blowin.

When the bus didn't show up there wasn't any school. Done deal. Then I went outside

and played in the snow all day.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fox is the only one that has it right. NBC shrinks down the picture not distorting the aspect. CBS is a disaster.
> 
> Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was snowin.
> 
> Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was rainin.
> 
> Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me the wind was blowin.
> 
> When the bus didn't show up there wasn't any school. Done deal. Then I went outside
> 
> and played in the snow all day.
> 
> JJK



I grew up in Southern California. We never got a snow day.










When I was 16 however I lived in Lowell MA. That was 1969. I know we got two snow days that was after a Noreaster came by and dumped 15". Two inches of snow? That didn't stop anything.


I can't remember how I found out there was no school. I probably walked up there and found out it was closed.


----------



## Andrew K

The news is that WOIO's newscast is going to HD very soon... probably by the end of the month is we're lucky. NBC Nightly News will also be going HD sometime in March. It's about time a national newscast did, considering we already have 3 locals in HD.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The news is that WOIO's newscast is going to HD very soon... probably by the end of the month is we're lucky. NBC Nightly News will also be going HD sometime in March. It's about time a national newscast did, considering we already have 3 locals in HD.



Don't forget that Bonanza was broadcast in color in the very early 60's and by the mid 60's most shows were in color, but CBS evening news with Walter Cronkite didn't go to color until the late 60's.


----------



## dleising

When WOIO hops on the HD wagon, will Cleveland be the first city to be all HD?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Were they in the 800s?



No, they were scattered across the 300's and 400's. Also Channel 1 now is labeled "TVOD"


I came home the other night and noticed all my channel changing on 1-99 was very slow and I suspected WOW might be experimenting with digital simulcast on the basic (analog) channels? I thought the PQ on the 1-99 channels was better, but maybe I was just seeing things.










I unplugged and replugged the box and the channel changing was fast again and PQ on 1-99 seemed like it's always been (kinda analog looking crappy)


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When WOIO hops on the HD wagon, will Cleveland be the first city to be all HD?



Yes, but technically WMFD in Mansfield is also in the Cleveland DMA and without an HD newscast. The Cleveland market seems really competitive.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, but technically WMFD in Mansfield is also in the Cleveland DMA and without an HD newscast. The Cleveland market seems really competitive.



Don't forget our local Univision affiliate. I have no idea if they do local news, however...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I came home the other night and noticed all my channel changing on 1-99 was very slow and I suspected WOW might be experimenting with digital simulcast on the basic (analog) channels? I thought the PQ on the 1-99 channels was better, but maybe I was just seeing things.



If you notice this again, remove the RF input from the box for a moment. If the picture freezes then disappears, you're looking at a digital channel. If it just goes to black or snow instantly, it's in analog modulation.


----------



## Tim Lones

Am waiting now for a Dish Tech to arrive to do my 622 HD install.(scheduled between 12-5). Brought home a JVC 30-inch HDTV This morning. After figuring out the setup, I scanned the channels. I got 6 hits without an antenna, including WDLI-17 and WNEO-45..signals but no lock on 23, 67 and 31 (WJW-digital?) and channel 60 for my TV2 Dish 522 tuner setup. The HDTV is in our bedroom and will become tuner1 on the 622. My Panasonic 35" in the living room will be TV2..


Editutting a Philips MANT510 indoor antenna on tne back of the JVC, I got anywhere from 20-28 "signals" including WDLI-17 and all the TBN digitals, 45/49 and the digital channels there..Amazingly when I got the antenna turned a certain way, I got WKBN-DT 27-1 and 2 (WYFX) perfectly but not the analog. The Dish Tech is here now..Can't wait to see what the OTA tuner for the 622 does.


----------



## Argee

The Yo Yo's at WKYC forgot to flip the HD switch on Earl last night until the second act.


----------



## JJkizak

WKYC are up to their old tricks again. Stretched SD.

JJK


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Yo Yo's at WKYC forgot to flip the HD switch on Earl last night until the second act.



Not to mention one of the funniest episodes of The Office was ruined because they kept switching between Letterbox SD and HD last night. Very annoying! There wasn't even any scrolling school closing tickers. What is their problem? Why is this so difficult?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to mention one of the funniest episodes of The Office was ruined because they kept switching between Letterbox SD and HD last night. Very annoying! There wasn't even any scrolling school closing tickers. What is their problem? Why is this so difficult?



Actually, when I noticed that on WKYC, I switched over to WFMJ out of Youngstown. The same thing was happening over there. Perhaps this was an issue with the feed from NBC.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, when I noticed that on WKYC, I switched over to WFMJ out of Youngstown. The same thing was happening over there. Perhaps this was an issue with the feed from NBC.



Geez, I must have been so into the show I didn't notice the HD/SD switching. Our technical people are really good about enabling the HD. Unfortunately I even deleted it from my PVR so i can't go back and look. Seriously, I don't remember seeing SD switching.


If there is an HD problem NBC will revert to upconverted SD on their own.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Geez, I must have been so into the show I didn't notice the HD/SD switching. Our technical people are really good about enabling the HD. Unfortunately I even deleted it from my PVR so i can't go back and look. Seriously, I don't remember seeing SD switching.
> 
> 
> If there is an HD problem NBC will revert to upconverted SD on their own.




I was watching 21-1 OTA last night in North Canton and the HD/SD switching happened several times. It was very obvious and distracting.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was watching 21-1 OTA last night in North Canton and the HD/SD switching happened several times. It was very obvious and distracting.



I must have been brain dead to not notice it, sorry. At any rate it wasn't us.


----------



## HD MM

Just checked in The Office Thread and people from all over were having the same problem. Looks like it's not a local issue, instead NBC dropped the ball.


----------



## Argee

Well Wkyc ruined Hereos with inane school closings last week and Wews did the same with Lost. At least Fox-8 has the sense to let these HD shows play in thier full glory and run the closings during the news. Since when has it become such a big deal for these stations to run continuos maps. scrolls, closings? In fact it would be easier and quicker show what is NOT closed.


----------



## jtscherne

I noticed that Channel 19 did something interesting. The HD channel had no school closings, while the analog channel had the closings. I noticed this while flipping channels the other evening.


----------



## stuart628

anyone with time warner cable in Ohio have the New navaigator software for their setop boxes? after much back and forth with the wife, we have time warner coming out monday to run a new line after this morning waking up to find a leaky celiling right below the big 55lb sat. dish Directv uses, so I am curious if it is just Time warner employess getting the new software, or is everyone getting it?



also by the way like tv21chief I was way into earl and office to notice it was getting switched around, I did a one point notice a switch but for the most part I was laughing to hard to notice much


----------



## dd24skater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that Channel 19 did something interesting. The HD channel had no school closings, while the analog channel had the closings. I noticed this while flipping channels the other evening.




I saw that too!


----------



## hookbill

When Channel 5 first went HD I noticed that chief meteoroligist, Mark Johnson had more grey in his hair then I had seen before. He even made mention about it himself, "the grey hair really shows in HD."


Well, he must have got a bottle of "Just for Men" because he doesn't have a grey hair in his head anymore.










I just notice this today, so I'm not sure when he did it but I know what I saw!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If there is an HD problem NBC will revert to upconverted SD on their own.



Back in the old days of network tv, when they'd run a 35mm film directly from a film chain, they'd also run a crummy 16mm duplicate called a protection print. Once in a great while I'd be watching a film on TV when something would go wrong, then the resolution and color gamut would suddenly drop and the sound would get a little muffled. They switched to the 16mm backup copy. Thus would go on until someone fixed the problem with the 35mm print, then -POOF!- the picture quality would go back to normal. The operative phrase at the control room when this would happen was "Take the protection print!"


So I wonder if something similar happened with the HD copy of The Office that night, and they wound up switching to an SD copy from a different server or tape machine.


----------



## JJkizak

Wondering how back in the old days of tv you could tell the difference between 35mm and 16 mm and even super 8?

JJK


----------



## Tim Lones

Question for Time Warner Cable Customers (Akron-Canton, Ohio)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Background:I am very new to Digital/HDTV. .As part of my recent Dish-HD 622Vip upgrade, I bought a JVC 30" I'Art Pro High Definition TV (AV-30W777)..Had been playing around with various indoor antennas with mixed success..The 622's OTA input doesnt work well for me, but I am far away from the towers of all local stations except Canton/Akron.


The Dish installer put the 622 in our bedroom, where there was an extra coax cable from Time Warner just hanging from the wall..Just for kicks I thought I would put it on the JVC antenna input. As mentioned in my previous post, I had gotten anywhere from 10 to 28 signals on the indoor antennas I'd tried. With the TWC Line I got 12 signals from the "Air" setting in the tuner menus. But when I switched to "Cable" setting I got over 400 signals! What I actually saw was varied versions of Cleveland Digital locals 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43..WIVM-LP 52 in Canton, Sportstime Ohio, some cable channels and even WYFX 17/62 Fox in Youngstown which as far as I know TWC Akron/Canton does'nt even carry officially.


When tuning through the channels I didnt get many clear pictures until I got to channels 74-79..The end of TWC basic service. I do get Roadrunner and Digital Phone so I know some analog channels can be received if a cable is plugged in to a regular set..the digitals begin on channel 80-1..some more on 94-1 through 7...Others on I think 108-1 and beyond. The last channel was 123-5. There were also some TWC ad channels as well..I realize there is "Cable Card" technology out there now..Wondering if that has anthing to do with this. This probably seems quite naive to ask but I was just overwhelmed by the number of stations there are and wondering if this is normal with a Digital/HDTV set..especially when I dont subscribe to cable or have a "Cable Box".


Edit:Is there anyone that has a list of TWC Akron-Canton system channels that are on 80-1 and above?(non cable box)

__________________


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question for Time Warner Cable Customers (Akron-Canton, Ohio)
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Background:I am very new to Digital/HDTV. .As part of my recent Dish-HD 622Vip upgrade, I bought a JVC 30" I'Art Pro High Definition TV (AV-30W777)..Had been playing around with various indoor antennas with mixed success..The 622's OTA input doesnt work well for me, but I am far away from the towers of all local stations except Canton/Akron.
> 
> 
> The Dish installer put the 622 in our bedroom, where there was an extra coax cable from Time Warner just hanging from the wall..Just for kicks I thought I would put it on the JVC antenna input. As mentioned in my previous post, I had gotten anywhere from 10 to 28 signals on the indoor antennas I'd tried. With the TWC Line I got 12 signals from the "Air" setting in the tuner menus. But when I switched to "Cable" setting I got over 400 signals! What I actually saw was varied versions of Cleveland Digital locals 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43..WIVM-LP 52 in Canton, Sportstime Ohio, some cable channels and even WYFX 17/62 Fox in Youngstown which as far as I know TWC Akron/Canton does'nt even carry officially.
> 
> 
> When tuning through the channels I didnt get many clear pictures until I got to channels 74-79..The end of TWC basic service. I do get Roadrunner and Digital Phone so I know some analog channels can be received if a cable is plugged in to a regular set..the digitals begin on channel 80-1..some more on 94-1 through 7...Others on I think 108-1 and beyond. The last channel was 123-5. There were also some TWC ad channels as well..I realize there is "Cable Card" technology out there now..Wondering if that has anthing to do with this. This probably seems quite naive to ask but I was just overwhelmed by the number of stations there are and wondering if this is normal with a Digital/HDTV set..especially when I dont subscribe to cable or have a "Cable Box".
> 
> 
> Edit:Is there anyone that has a list of TWC Akron-Canton system channels that are on 80-1 and above?(non cable box)
> 
> __________________




Well, I don't have a list but I should let you know that TWC is a bit more aggressive then old Adelphia on cable theft, and while you didn't do this intentionally that still doesn't mean they won't come after you if they find out.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Am waiting now for a Dish Tech to arrive to do my 622 HD install.(scheduled between 12-5). Brought home a JVC 30-inch HDTV This morning. After figuring out the setup, I scanned the channels. I got 6 hits without an antenna, including WDLI-17 and WNEO-45..signals *but no lock on 23, 67 and 31* (WJW-digital?) and channel 60 for my TV2 Dish 522 tuner setup. The HDTV is in our bedroom and will become tuner1 on the 622. My Panasonic 35" in the living room will be TV2..
> 
> 
> Editutting a Philips MANT510 indoor antenna on tne back of the JVC, I got anywhere from 20-28 "signals" including WDLI-17 and all the TBN digitals, 45/49 and the digital channels there..Amazingly when I got the antenna turned a certain way, I got WKBN-DT 27-1 and 2 (WYFX) perfectly but not the analog. The Dish Tech is here now..Can't wait to see what the OTA tuner for the 622 does.



Ch 23 is not on the air in digital (neither is 55). You should have gotten 67 (they are digital on 47). If you can reaim your antenna you might be able to get WOAC 67 (but for now there is nothing on but Guthy-Ranker paid programs). Ch 8 is indeed on 31 in digital. I'm not sure how much power they are pushing on 31 (living .8 of a mile from WJW my signal strength pegs at 125 on my E* 921).


I also get WKBN-DT nearly perfectly with an average of 103 signal strength usning an outdoor antenna. That same antenna gives me a snowy, but watchable analog WKBN 21 - but no digital! (go figure).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wondering how back in the old days of tv you could tell the difference between 35mm and 16 mm and even super 8?
> 
> JJK



The difference was there, if only subtle on most TV's of the day. The change in audio quality was more noticeable once the networks improved the way the signals were distributed to the affilliates. The original terrestrial microwave links had a noticabley narrow bandwidth for audio. In the mid to late 70's they must have gone to satellite, for there was a big improvement in the audio. Anyone remeber the theme song for ABC's Wide World of Sports? It had that narrow bandwidth quality for years after the change. The recording they used must have been fed over the old narrow bandwidth system then reused for many years without updating. It was like hearing an AM radio signal rebroadcast over an FM station.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I don't have a list but I should let you know that TWC is a bit more aggressive then old Adelphia on cable theft, and while you didn't do this intentionally that still doesn't mean they won't come after you if they find out.




I still have Digital Phone and Roadrunner with TWC. I don't know if I will keep this connection up or not. I am sure they have ways of finding out if someone shouldnt have certain services. And They will turn it off if necessary, which wouldnt be a problem at all..


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wondering how back in the old days of tv you could tell the difference between 35mm and 16 mm and even super 8?
> 
> JJK



It was pretty obvious. All of a sudden there'd be film weave and a dramatic drop in picture resolution and dynamic range.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The difference was there, if only subtle on most TV's of the day. The change in audio quality was more noticeable once the networks improved the way the signals were distributed to the affilliates. The original terrestrial microwave links had a noticabley narrow bandwidth for audio. In the mid to late 70's they must have gone to satellite, for there was a big improvement in the audio. Anyone remeber the theme song for ABC's Wide World of Sports? It had that narrow bandwidth quality for years after the change. The recording they used must have been fed over the old narrow bandwidth system then reused for many years without updating. It was like hearing an AM radio signal rebroadcast over an FM station.



I remember watching ABC one day during the narrow-bandwidth days. Their "movie of the week" opening came on. I was watching the audio on a VU meter without listening to it, and the VU meter stood absolutely still during the opening. I thought I had a bad cable and was seeing AC hum but it was program audio! The audio was so incredibly compressed that there was virtually ZERO dynamic range! I was absolutely astounded. Apparently one of the reasons for doing this (besides making it sound "louder" and more commanding) was to keep it well above the noise floor of the terrestrial microwave hops.


Yes, they've long since abandoned terrestrial microwave and gone to satellite and fiber transmission, thank goodness.


----------



## k2rj

Has anybody noticed lately the 10 dB or so volume increase between HD shows and commercials vs. SD shows/commercials on WKYC? It was so bad last night during Las Vegas that we had to mute the commercials or be blown out of the room! The other stations, especially WOIO, seem to have much better control over this. In fact, 19's commercial audio has tended to be lower than the program audio lately...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody noticed lately the 10 dB or so volume increase between HD shows and commercials vs. SD shows/commercials on WKYC? It was so bad last night during Las Vegas that we had to mute the commercials or be blown out of the room! The other stations, especially WOIO, seem to have much better control over this. In fact, 19's commercial audio has tended to be lower than the program audio lately...



To a lesser extent FOX 8 also has a noticable difference in audio level between HD and SD.


----------



## JJkizak

Some of the audio level variations (OTA) are as much as 15-20db even with the auto sound level thing activated on the Sony LCD. The Tube is always about 15 db down in level and WKYC the same way except for commercials then the level jumps up. All of the analog channels are rock solid level wise. All of the others fluctuate depending on the full moon I guess.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some of the audio level variations (OTA) are as much as 15-20db even with the auto sound level thing activated on the Sony LCD. The Tube is always about 15 db down in level and WKYC the same way except for commercials then the level jumps up. All of the analog channels are rock solid level wise. All of the others fluctuate depending on the full moon I guess.



I believe you guys but how do you know this? I mean on my HTS if I'm at 60 db and a loud commercial comes on I have no idea how much louder, it still says 60db on the stereo.


You have decibel meters is you house????


----------



## Dweezilz

Good question! I'm curious now and I do have an SLP meter. I'm going to test to see what the difference is.


----------



## Andrew K

Here's an interesting story posted on Ohio Media Watch... It looks like 19 action news is trying to find some ratings. If you haven't heard, the weather forcaster, Jon Loufman, was doing a live interview of the weather, and a fat streaker was running around. It was obviously staged. Check out the video for yourself...

http://www.roverradio.com/index.php?...=1550&Itemid=1


----------



## jtscherne

It turned out to be a DJ from WXRK, which just happens to have its studios near where Loufman was.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I haven't seen this mentioned on here - WOIO-DT is not passing DD.5.1. I'm currently watching the OSU-Minnesota game and I'm only getting Dolby PL on WOIO-DT, while I can get DD5.1 from WKBN-DT. Someone mentioned on OMW that they noticed that WOIO-DT was not passing DD5.1 on Wed night.


Is their new encoder broken already? Or did they get a 2nd-hand one from a garage sale?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't seen this mentioned on here - WOIO-DT is not passing DD.5.1. I'm currently watching the OSU-Minnesota game and I'm only getting Dolby PL on WOIO-DT, while I can get DD5.1 from WKBN-DT. Someone mentioned on OMW that they noticed that WOIO-DT was not passing DD5.1 on Wed night.
> 
> 
> Is their new encoder broken already? Or did they get a 2nd-hand one from a garage sale?



I can tell you they were broadcasting DD 5.1 as of Friday evening. I just took a look and currently they have golf and it is in HD and no Dolby 5.1. Bummer, hope they get it running by tonight.


----------



## JJkizak

hookbill:

I have a Radio Shack SPL meter which is about 40 bucks if I remember right. I use it for checking the 7.1 setup with the Avia test disc.


JJK


----------



## hookbill

Wow, I'm really p.o'd about this. I wonder why they left it on all the time and if that caused something to break. I mean this is ratings time you would think they would want everything working. I have a few CBS shows recording tonight and I was really enjoying their programming in DD 5.1. I think I watch CBS more then any other network.


I hope they get this back soon. I tried calling and got a recording.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody noticed lately the 10 dB or so volume increase between HD shows and commercials vs. SD shows/commercials on WKYC? It was so bad last night during Las Vegas that we had to mute the commercials or be blown out of the room! The other stations, especially WOIO, seem to have much better control over this. In fact, 19's commercial audio has tended to be lower than the program audio lately...



Absolutely I notice a difference in sound volume between HD shows vs. commercials on WKYC. It is especially extreme during episodes of Friday Night Lights. I think it's more that the shows are broadcast at a lower than normal volume. I find myself turning it up to a higher db level than compared to other channels. As a result, the commercials come on blaring loud! It is so bad I have to make sure the remote is in hand the entire time I am viewing an NBC show or risk waking the dog or even the next door neighbor when the commercials come on!


----------



## Chris Isble

I also have an SPL meter that I use to setup my AV receiver using Video Essentials. When playing a dvd, I set my receiver volume to -15, when watching analog cable I have to lower it to -35.


When watching the primetime shows in HD and DD5.1, I find that the right volume for certain shows is -15, which makes the commercials too loud.


I have to conclude that when the show sounds like it is at too low a volume, they are really the first ones to get it right.


----------



## Tim Lones

Below is a list of stations I was getting last night with The JVC 30' Inch HDTV tuner. A few surprises..Namely 13 Toledo, 9 Steubenville and 17/62 Youngstown. Not sure if some of these are on/off at certain times of the day or if the out of town stations are an anomaly..


Time Warner Digital Lineup-Non Cable Box


Analog Cable (Digital Repeats)


71. Inspirational Network

72, 94-7 Fit TV

74, SoapNet

75, 94-5, 94-6 TV Guide Channel

76. SportsTime Ohio

77. WE

78. Oxygen

79, 94-3 Shop-At Home


Digital


80-1 WKYC 3 NBC Cleveland

80-2 WKYC Weather Plus

80-3, 108.2 WUAB 43 Cleveland

94-1 Bravo

94-2 WTOV 9 NBC Steubenville, Oh.

94-9 WYFX 17/62 FOX Youngstown

100-1 WTVG 13 ABC Toledo

100-2, 104-3 WEWS 5 ABC Cleveland

100-3 Discovery

100-4 Food Network

100-5 E!

104-1 WJW 8 FOX Cleveland

104-2 WOIO 19 Weather Now

108-1 WOIO 19 CBS Cleveland

108-3 WUAB 43-2 "The Tube" Cleveland

122-6 NBA League Pass Preview

123-5 WIVM-LP 52 Canton, Ohio

124-1, 124-12 On Demand Previews

124-4 Biography Channel

124-9 Time Warner Cable Ad Channel


----------



## hookbill

I just spoke with an engineer over at WOIO named Jim. He told me that CBS has decided to use different equipment then what they sent over and that they had to send the Dolby 5.1 equipment back. He says it will be "several months" before they will have it again.


Again showing how cheap WOIO is he said that they could pay for it themselves but they have several stations and it would be expensive so they will only use equipment that the network sends them. He says that CBS sent the Dolby 5.1 equipment over so they could "evaluate" it and claims he didn't know they would take it back.


Does this sound like B.S. to anyone else but me?


Also he mentioned they had a lot of things going on like HD news. I said so I had heard, and I asked him when when he thought that was going to get started. Well, despite what we've been hearing he says sometime around June. Hopefully.


I'm just so disappointed in them giving us what we should be getting and taking it away. WOIO you suck.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Below is a list of stations I was getting last night with The JVC 30' Inch HDTV tuner. A few surprises..Namely 13 Toledo, 9 Steubenville and 17/62 Youngstown. Not sure if some of these are on/off at certain times of the day or if the out of town stations are an anomaly..
> 
> 
> Time Warner Digital Lineup-Non Cable Box
> 
> 
> 
> Digital
> 
> 
> 80-1 WKYC 3 NBC Cleveland
> 
> 80-2 WKYC Weather Plus
> 
> 80-3, 108.2 WUAB 43 Cleveland
> 
> 94-1 Bravo
> 
> 94-2 WTOV 9 NBC Steubenville, Oh.
> 
> 94-9 WYFX 17/62 FOX Youngstown
> 
> 100-1 WTVG 13 ABC Toledo
> 
> 100-2, 104-3 WEWS 5 ABC Cleveland
> 
> 100-3 Discovery
> 
> 100-4 Food Network
> 
> 100-5 E!
> 
> 104-1 WJW 8 FOX Cleveland
> 
> 104-2 WOIO 19 Weather Now
> 
> 108-1 WOIO 19 CBS Cleveland
> 
> 108-3 WUAB 43-2 "The Tube" Cleveland
> 
> 122-6 NBA League Pass Preview
> 
> 123-5 WIVM-LP 52 Canton, Ohio
> 
> 124-1, 124-12 On Demand Previews
> 
> 124-4 Biography Channel
> 
> 124-9 Time Warner Cable Ad Channel




Can you get a digial signal with out a box?

Or is this something that is exclusive to Warner?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm just so disappointed in them giving us what we should be getting and taking it away. WOIO you suck.



What you should be getting? Is there an FCC code stating that all audio must be in 5.1 channel?


Unless there is, WOIO owes the viewer nothing, but a digital signal by some coming date. Appreciate this fact and deal with it. Unless a lot people stop watching WOIO because of the 5.1 channel being unavailable (and seeing most people don't even have HD or Digital to begin with that'd seem to be highly unlikely), WOIO is under almost no pressure to offer 5.1. Where exactly is the benefit for the station to go 5.1 if the price is high and they won't see any benefit from offering it?


I like 5.1 a lot too, but getting upset because a station isn't giving it isn't going to get you anywhere, but a needlessly angry state of mind.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What you should be getting? Is there an FCC code stating that all audio must be in 5.1 channel?
> 
> 
> Unless there is, WOIO owes the viewer nothing, but a digital signal by some coming date. Appreciate this fact and deal with it. Unless a lot people stop watching WOIO because of the 5.1 channel being unavailable (and seeing most people don't even have HD or Digital to begin with that'd seem to be highly unlikely), WOIO is under almost no pressure to offer 5.1. Where exactly is the benefit for the station to go 5.1 if the price is high and they won't see any benefit from offering it?
> 
> 
> I like 5.1 a lot too, but getting upset because a station isn't giving it isn't going to get you anywhere, but a needlessly angry state of mind.



Did you read the part where I said they gave it to us and took it away? You don't think I have a right to get upset about that?


I understand they don't "have" to give it to us but other cities get it. Then to give it to us for the Super Bowl and a week before and 2 weeks after? Isn't that kind of a tease?


I think it is and I am pissed about it. I've already contacted the network to express my opinion. I don't give a rats behind who pays for it, it just adds so much to the broadcast.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you get a digial signal with out a box?
> 
> Or is this something that is exclusive to Warner?



I've been asking about this at other Forums..Apparently at Time-Warner and some other Cable companies, These channels (Especially the locals) come as "Added Value" if you have other services. As mentioned earlier, I have Roadrunner and digital phone. It is thought the cable channels may go away if cable companies decide to encrypt them..


----------



## Rbuchina

The JVC AV-30W77 has a QAM tuner built in. Cable systems use QAM to encode their digital signal and the cable box will decode this and present it to your display. Cable companies must provide the local channels "in the clear" to their customers. Unfortunatly most built in HDTV tuners are not QAM capable. You should not find any premium movie channels with this setup. When I purchase my next bedroom TV I will make sure it has a QAM tuner so I can just plug the cable coax in and recieve the locals, plus whatever the cable system does not encode, in HD. This allows you to return a rented cable box and save $$ each month.


Ray


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cable companies must provide the local channels "in the clear" to their customers.



This statement is a gross generalization and incorrect interpretation of the FCC requirement. The FCC only requires a single version of a local broadcast to be viewable by all subscribers. Cable operators are complying with this rule by providing the local analog broadcast unscrambled (in most/all markets). Once the analog signal goes away it may be a new ball game, but if cable operators get their way they will convert the digital signal at the head end and still provide an analog version of the local affiliate. Some cable operators (as stated earlier) provide digital locals in the clear as "added value" while others don't because of the lack of a requirement.


----------



## Michael P 2341

For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:


If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html 


Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:
> 
> 
> If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html
> 
> 
> Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.



You know I might just get a rat shack antenna and hook it to my S3 JUST to pull in that station. I may overrule wife's objections on these grounds.


----------



## dannykewl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According the the WIXY Tribute Site, XM did a WIXY retrospective before - like over a year ago.
> 
> 
> If you can get WJCU-FM 88.7 (John Carroll University radio which used to be known as WUJC until '97) on Tuesday evenings form 6:00 - 9:00 they have a program called "Retro Radio". Hosted by Joe Madigan (a 20-something that sounds like he lived in the 60's - he even has a great knowledge of the rare tracks that never made it up the Hot 100 but did make it on the WIXY-60 charts).
> 
> 
> Too bad WJCU had to shut off the streaming due to prohibitive royalty payments.



(They won't let me put or keep quoted URL's in until I make 5 posts, so I had to cut that part of the quote - dannykewl)


Hi, I just ran across this forum, and registered to let you know WJCU has their stream back, Joe Madigan is on as I type and WJCU is presently holding a fundraiser radiothon, and playing all Cleveland stuff tonight. Due to new FCC regulations, WJCU now has to pay several thousand dollars a year for streaming instead of several hundred. I listen online as the signal does not reach the far west side of Cleveland that I'm in very well. Madigan has an awesome show.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:
> 
> 
> If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html
> 
> 
> Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.



Even if WOIO had sense enough to go to 19 due to the Canadian interference issues, that wouldn't really help WBNS, as WCPO in Cincinnati has selected CH10 as their final digital channel, IIRC.


After the Third Round Channel Election ends in less than a week, it will probably be too late for anyone to change their channel selection anyway.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:
> 
> 
> If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html
> 
> 
> Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.




I concur with Michael on this. With just a Philips MANT510 Indoor Amplified Antenna angled correctly, WKBN and WYFX come in like they are in my back yard. Just have a problem getting enough stations in one spot to make it worthwhile but I'll keep trying..


----------



## ClevelandRob

Does anyone in here actually get 25-1 WVIZ-DT?? I know they are running on low power right now. Do they show anything worthwhile? I previously heard they would be at full power by the spring. I don't know if this is true.


While I'm at it... anyone know anything about 55-1 WBNX?? I've emailed them about three times and each time they push back the scheduled HD launch. I want Veronica Mars in HD!


Cheers.


----------



## jtscherne

Time Warner in Cleveland shows the 25-1 feed. It's mostly repeats of older HD shows, with some new ones thrown in. It is definitely not the same schedule as the regular WVIZ.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I concur with Michael on this. With just a Philips MANT510 Indoor Amplified Antenna angled correctly, WKBN and WYFX come in like they are in my back yard. Just have a problem getting enough stations in one spot to make it worthwhile but I'll keep trying..



I don't really care about the 5.1 audio since my tv doesn't really have that capability, but I think it's rotten for WOIO to tease everyone for a few weeks like that. I don't personally get WKBN-DT since I'm in the Cuyahoga Valley, but it seems like most people who live in my area can get it. At least this is an option for a lot of people, and maybe WOIO will realize that their stubbornness is taking away viewers.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone in here actually get 25-1 WVIZ-DT?? I know they are running on low power right now. Do they show anything worthwhile? I previously heard they would be at full power by the spring. I don't know if this is true.
> 
> 
> While I'm at it... anyone know anything about 55-1 WBNX?? I've emailed them about three times and each time they push back the scheduled HD launch. I want Veronica Mars in HD!
> 
> 
> Cheers.



I live 3.5 miles from the WVIZ-DT Brookpark mini-tower. If I move my Silver Sensor to my rear patio door I can get it. It's a hassle because my TV is not near the patio door. Every other Cleveland station is receivable out the side window except WVIZ. the signal is so weak plus my house has aluminum siding which screws up the signals (amazingly the Akron signals, 25 miles away, make it through the garage door and another wall just fine).


As far as WBNX goes - I can see their tower when I look out my patio door. If I ever see workers on the tower I'll report it here.


----------



## gilham1

Sorry for the dumb ? , but i wanted to know if i could hook up rabbit ears and recive these stations...I have 2 diffrent ones, one says it is hdtv and the other is a over priced rca ..

Thanks in advance..


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry for the dumb ? , but i wanted to know if i could hook up rabbit ears and recive these stations...I have 2 diffrent ones, one says it is hdtv and the other is a over priced rca ..
> 
> Thanks in advance..



It shouldn't matter, as long as your TV can decode OTA digital signals.


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It shouldn't matter, as long as your TV can decode OTA digital signals.



thanks...how do i find out if my tv does?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thanks...how do i find out if my tv does?



What kind of TV is it, is it even HD? You can plug the antenna in and scan for channels and see if it does a digital OTA scan.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> thanks...how do i find out if my tv does?



If you don't know if you have a HD television, then you probably don't have one. They are very expensive and your manual should tell you if it's either HD ready or capable of receiving HD over the air.


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you don't know if you have a HD television, then you probably don't have one. They are very expensive and your manual should tell you if it's either HD ready or capable of receiving HD over the air.



i do have a hd tv.. but it is my 1st, i didnt see anything that said OTA .. but it shows diffrent setups to get reg.tv..It is hd ready also..Thanks, i feel pretty stupid, but this is how we learn i guess.


----------



## TheBlackKnight

I am seeing something odd tonight OTA. I tuned to where WEAO-DT usually is (rf 50) and the PSIP is reporting it as 45-1, 45-2 and 45-3 WNEO-DT (which is the sister station usually on rf 46). Same as what would normally be on 49-1, 49-2, and 49-3 (Create, analog rebroadcast, and Ohio Channel). Also, the time is only 18 minutes off (it is usually hours off) and there is actually something in the guide (usually there is nothing). The guide data is not correct - it only has two programs at 10:00 and 1:00 and they are both labelled "WNEO".


I tried tuning to rf 46 which is supposed to be WNEO-DT and could not get a signal. I don't always get a signal here anyway, since most of the WNEO-DT signal is aimed to the east from their Salem xmitter - away from me.


At the very least, it appears that PBS45&49 is fooling around with their PSIP. Maybe they are testing new equipment?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i do have a hd tv.. but it is my 1st, i didnt see anything that said OTA .. but it shows diffrent setups to get reg.tv..It is hd ready also..Thanks, i feel pretty stupid, but this is how we learn i guess.



"HD Ready" is just a fancy way of saying that it doesn't have a digital (ATSC) tuner. This means that your TV may be capable of showing an HD picture from another source but doesn't have the capability of picking up the digital OTA signals.


----------



## Telosian

Outrageous for WOIO to do what it did. I totally agree with Hookbill. Sounds like a vendor gave them a loaner and then got burned. I am going to make the effort again to pull in WKBN. I have a good antenna with a rotor but I don't think it is high enough. (I'm in Gates Mlls) Is anyone else in this area able to get WKBN?


----------



## JJkizak

TheBlackKnight:

I saw the same thing.


JJK


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am seeing something odd tonight OTA. I tuned to where WEAO-DT usually is (rf 50) and the PSIP is reporting it as 45-1, 45-2 and 45-3 WNEO-DT (which is the sister station usually on rf 46). Same as what would normally be on 49-1, 49-2, and 49-3 (Create, analog rebroadcast, and Ohio Channel). Also, the time is only 18 minutes off (it is usually hours off) and there is actually something in the guide (usually there is nothing). The guide data is not correct - it only has two programs at 10:00 and 1:00 and they are both labelled "WNEO".
> 
> 
> I tried tuning to rf 46 which is supposed to be WNEO-DT and could not get a signal. I don't always get a signal here anyway, since most of the WNEO-DT signal is aimed to the east from their Salem xmitter - away from me.
> 
> 
> At the very least, it appears that PBS45&49 is fooling around with their PSIP. Maybe they are testing new equipment?



There was a failure in the microwave system from the Kent master control to the Copley transmitter. The variable rate modem feeding Copley (WEAO) failed. In order to get it back on-the-air, the output of the VRM that feeds Salem (WNEO) was "teed" into the Copley microwave... hence, the mis-PSIP data. Engineering is hammering on the broken VRM.


----------



## Argee

WOIO always has had a small station mentality. They are a very cheap amature type operation.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO always has had a small station mentality. They are a very cheap amature type operation.



I know some of the engineering staff there and they're honest, hard working people. They do the best they can with what they have and I give them credit for that.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know some of the engineering staff there and they're honest, hard working people. They do the best they can with what they have and I give them credit for that.



I agree. The only thing amateur about the engineering staff is their amateur radio (ham) licenses!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree. The only thing amateur about the engineering staff is their amateur radio (ham) licenses!



Please don;t blame the engineering staff. The blame lies with Raycom's management of WOIO/WUAB. They would cut off their noses if it would help the bottom line. Why else would they want to stay on Rf ch 10?


I really wished WBNS would have tried to fight for ch 10, it's rightfully theirs - they had that channel for DECADES before WOIO ever existed. Now we in the Cleveland market will suffer with a sub par frequency for our local CBS. At least some of us can get WKBN-DT. Cable ans satellite cannot legally give us WKBN, but there is no law stopping us from watching the OTA signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please don;t blame the engineering staff. The blame lies with Raycom's management of WOIO/WUAB. They would cut off their noses if it would help the bottom line. Why else would they want to stay on Rf ch 10?
> 
> 
> I really wished WBNS would have tried to fight for ch 10, it's rightfully theirs - they had that channel for DECADES before WOIO ever existed. Now we in the Cleveland market will suffer with a sub par frequency for our local CBS. At least some of us can get WKBN-DT. Cable ans satellite cannot legally give us WKBN, but there is no law stopping us from watching the OTA signal.




Agreed and Cathode Kid I hope you understand I'm not taking shots at WOIO's staff. What bugs me is their management. Have you seen how many television stations they own? They own a bunch, more the 10 maybe 20. And since WKYC is not an NBC owned station but they bought DD 5.1 equipment, why not WOIO. WEWS says they will have their's in place around June.


Look at how management handled the Browns situation. They shot themselves in the foot and now they continue to go after the Browns with all kinds of rumors and inuendos from thei "Action News Team".


It's just sad that CBS doesn't force them to carry the 5.1 equipment. I believe they could do that, but who knows how long their contract is with CBS to be an affiliate.


----------



## ClevelandRob

I worked breifly in the news department at WOIO/WUAB a few years back and that GM/VP Bill Applegate is a slimeball. The entire management staff is incompetent. The engineers and all of the production staff are talented people who deserve better.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please don;t blame the engineering staff. The blame lies with Raycom's management of WOIO/WUAB. They would cut off their noses if it would help the bottom line. Why else would they want to stay on Rf ch 10?
> 
> 
> I really wished WBNS would have tried to fight for ch 10, it's rightfully theirs - they had that channel for DECADES before WOIO ever existed. Now we in the Cleveland market will suffer with a sub par frequency for our local CBS. At least some of us can get WKBN-DT. Cable ans satellite cannot legally give us WKBN, but there is no law stopping us from watching the OTA signal.



Please don't misunderstand my post. I too agree that the engineers are hard working honest folks. And the "amateur radio" statement is a very positive comment.


----------



## Tim Lones

I've read horror stories about Raycom in general all over the country..Their management is horrible all over.They took a great Fox affiliate (19) and turned it into a mediocre at best CBS affiliate. And it is criminal what they've done to WUAB-43..


----------



## gass

I've read horror stories about Raycom in general all over the country..Their management is horrible all over.


Its not much better here in the wireless industry, trust me. (S*)


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've read horror stories about Raycom in general all over the country..Their management is horrible all over.They took a great Fox affiliate (19) and turned it into a mediocre at best CBS affiliate. And it is criminal what they've done to WUAB-43..



I'm glad that WBNX has the CW for the Cleveland DMA. I know they aren't HD yet, but I would gladly wait then to have had Raycomm screwing it up!


----------



## yespage

Is there even a reason to watch 43-1 anymore? At least it has The Tube, which does look better now.


----------



## cemkf3




> Quote:
> There was a failure in the microwave system from the Kent master control to the Copley transmitter. The variable rate modem feeding Copley (WEAO) failed. In order to get it back on-the-air, the output of the VRM that feeds Salem (WNEO) was "teed" into the Copley microwave... hence, the mis-PSIP data. Engineering is hammering on the broken VRM.



I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cemkf3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV



I haven't noticed any difference. The signal is still high for me, but I'm only 6.2 miles from the transmitter.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cemkf3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV



I'm getting Rf 50 at 75% in Parma, it used to be in the high 80's. This is with a Silver Sensor aimed though a wall and my attached garage (if I had a south-facing window in my family room my reception of Akron stations would be greatly increased).


----------



## Smarty-pants

Newbie to free HDTV here so...

Please if anyone can help with a few questions.

Right now I subscribe to Time Warner BASIC cable. (no digital, no HDTV, not even expanded basic... just basic)

I have an HDTV monitor and just bought an external ATSC/QAM tuner.


Main question: *AM I going to be able to get any stations via cable useing the ex.tuner?*

I live in Canton/N.Canton/44721. If I can't get free HDTV or anything like that from TW, I will then need an antenna. Any suggestions on what type of setup I need for my location? I am poor right now and am looking for a CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE solution.

Thanks


----------



## dj9

Hi,

I live in Green OH a few miles south of Akron. Is there any chance of receiving OTA HD with an indoor or in-attic antenna? Putting an antenna on the roof is not allowed.


(also has clear QAM changed at all on TWC since this summer? I am on the Green system, not the Akron or Canton ones.)


----------



## JJkizak

dj9:

You won't know until you try it. In the old days (1969) I hung a 17 ft log periodic in my apartment living room and it worked fine.

JJK


----------



## Inundated

Didn't TWC integrate the Green-based system into Akron and/or Canton?


(That's the old Marks Cablevision, no?)


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Didn't TWC integrate the Green-based system into Akron and/or Canton?
> 
> 
> (That's the old Marks Cablevision, no?)



Yep, it's Marks Cablevision. It was Cable One for awhile in the late 90s.


The Green system is its own TWC NEO system running from the old office on 619. The channel lineup is similar to Akron's with the addition of a local channel ran by Green HS.


Cable One offered cable Internet for just a few months before TWC took over; that was back in 2002.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cemkf3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV



No change is trasmit power...only the PSIP data that is inserted into the stream. The VRM unit is at the manufacturer being repaired.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I live in Green OH a few miles south of Akron. Is there any chance of receiving OTA HD with an indoor or in-attic antenna? Putting an antenna on the roof is not allowed.



I don't live down there, but I would think you'd be able to pull in plenty of stations - probably more than I can get up here in the Cleveland area. Use the antennaweb site to determine what to expect from your location.


Why can't you put up an outdoor antenna? Are you renting?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I live in Green OH a few miles south of Akron. Is there any chance of receiving OTA HD with an indoor or in-attic antenna? Putting an antenna on the roof is not allowed.
> 
> 
> (also has clear QAM changed at all on TWC since this summer? I am on the Green system, not the Akron or Canton ones.)



Is not allowed by whom? The FCC has specifically pre-empted local laws and Homeowners Associations CCR's (Deed restrictions) with respect to "Over the Air Reception Devices". This specifically applies to TV antennas. See FCC 96-328 released on August 6, 1996. It should be available on the FCC.gov website.

Now, if its your wife not doing the allowing, that's a different story!


----------



## joepic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Newbie to free HDTV here so...
> 
> Please if anyone can help with a few questions.
> 
> Right now I subscribe to Time Warner BASIC cable. (no digital, no HDTV, not even expanded basic... just basic)
> 
> I have an HDTV monitor and just bought an external ATSC/QAM tuner.
> 
> 
> Main question: *AM I going to be able to get any stations via cable useing the ex.tuner?*
> 
> I live in Canton/N.Canton/44721. If I can't get free HDTV or anything like that from TW, I will then need an antenna. Any suggestions on what type of setup I need for my location? I am poor right now and am looking for a CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE solution.
> 
> Thanks



I live in Hartville and have TWC HD with the 8300 DVR. I have split my cable before going in to the 8300 and I am feeding a Dvico tuner RT 5 Gold in my HTPC. I have the tuner configured for QAM. I am able to get channels 2-79 analog plus the HD Cleveland stations.


I am a little confused. You have TW basic and the external QAM tuner connected to an HDTV monitor. Have you tried connecting the cable to the tuner to see what you get?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now, if its your wife not doing the allowing, that's a different story!



My wife is more powerfull then the FCC?


Scarry.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joepic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Hartville and have TWC HD with the 8300 DVR. I have split my cable before going in to the 8300 and I am feeding a Dvico tuner RT 5 Gold in my HTPC. I have the tuner configured for QAM. I am able to get channels 2-79 analog plus the HD Cleveland stations.
> 
> 
> I am a little confused. You have TW basic and the external QAM tuner connected to an HDTV monitor. Have you tried connecting the cable to the tuner to see what you get?



Ya, very quickly tried a few different ways for the tuner to do an auto search of stations found and it found nothing. Shouldn't it at least find the analog stations that I already get from TW?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ya, very quickly tried a few different ways for the tuner to do an auto search of stations found and it found nothing. Shouldn't it at least find the analog stations that I already get from TW?



Not if you were accurate in your description of your tuner(ATSC/QAM). The analog channels would be NTSC. What is the make/model of your tuner?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not if you were accurate in your description of your tuner(ATSC/QAM). The analog channels would be NTSC. What is the make/model of your tuner?



Ya, I guess I figured that out now. The tuner boasts that it can receive ATSC *AND* NTSC signals, but apparently that is only _"over the air"_ signals, because I am getting no stations at all via the tuner.


The tuner is actually designed to hook up to an SDTV. It takes the digital and/or HDTV signal and converts it to standard analog signal. So then you can watch the nice HDTV widescreen picture on your SDTV. Some people who have used it say it outputs a very nice clean 480i picture. The reason I got it was because it was very cheap and right now I am very poor as far as expendable income. The model is RJ-1000ASTC. Here are some links to discussion and description...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798636 
http://ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=4973305 


If I were to subscribe to TW _digital_ cable, would the tuner then be able to get the stations I want (free HD)??

If I want to do OTA, will I need anything other than the antenna??


Thanks


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ya, I guess I figured that out now. The tuner boasts that it can receive ATSC *AND* NTSC signals, but apparently that is only _"over the air"_ signals, because I am getting no stations at all via the tuner.
> 
> 
> The tuner is actually designed to hook up to an SDTV. It takes the digital and/or HDTV signal and converts it to standard analog signal. So then you can watch the nice HDTV widescreen picture on your SDTV. Some people who have used it say it outputs a very nice clean 480i picture. The reason I got it was because it was very cheap and right now I am very poor as far as expendable income. The model is RJ-1000ASTC. Here are some links to discussion and description...
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798636
> http://ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=4973305
> 
> 
> If I were to subscribe to TW _digital_ cable, would the tuner then be able to get the stations I want (free HD)??
> 
> If I want to do OTA, will I need anything other than the antenna??
> 
> 
> Thanks



No, that tuner is strictly for OTA digital signals. Unlike analog NTSC, digital tv over cable is modulated differently than the way it's modulated OTA. You would need a tuner that has QAM in order to see the cable fed digital signals that are not scrambled. With an antenna you should be able to receive most of the Cleveland stations in free OTA digital. only 23 and 55 are not yet digital, and 25 is in very low power (you have to live near Brookpark Rd. to even have a chance of getting 25 at this time).


Additionally, if you live inside the circle on this map you may also be able to get WKBN-DT from Youngstown:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html 

WKBN-DT has one of the best coverage areas of any digital OTA signal, and you get an SD FOX affilliate on a subchannel to boot (great for football season since WKBN is Youngstown's CBS affilliate). They even have DD 5.1 while WOIO does not (well WOIO did have DD 5.1 for the Super Bowl, but lost the ability soon after).


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, that tuner is strictly for OTA digital signals. Unlike analog NTSC, digital tv over cable is modulated differently than the way it's modulated OTA. You would need a tuner that has QAM in order to see the cable fed digital signals that are not scrambled. With an antenna you should be able to receive most of the Cleveland stations in free OTA digital. only 23 and 55 are not yet digital, and 25 is in very low power (you have to live near Brookpark Rd. to even have a chance of getting 25 at this time).



The unit I have is supposed to have a QAM tuner in it. That's the main reason I bought it.

Thanks for the info thus far.


I guess specifcally what I am looking for is any specific info anyone has on TimeWarner and their unscrambled signals. Do I _qualify_ to recieve those signals even though I'm only subscribed to basic analog service? Would it make a difference if I subscribed to their _basic digital service_?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, that tuner is strictly for OTA digital signals. Unlike analog NTSC, digital tv over cable is modulated differently than the way it's modulated OTA.



This contradicts both the eCost site, the AVS thread, and the RJ Tech site . I'm sorry, but I believe you're wrong.


If I had to guess at Smarty-pants's problem, I would say he's got a bad box.


EDIT: or possibly his digital channels are filtered.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The unit I have is supposed to have a QAM tuner in it. That's the main reason I bought it.
> 
> Thanks for the info thus far.
> 
> 
> I guess specifcally what I am looking for is any specific info anyone has on TimeWarner and their unscrambled signals. Do I _qualify_ to recieve those signals even though I'm only subscribed to basic analog service? Would it make a difference if I subscribed to their _basic digital service_?



You qualify to receive whatever is sent unscrambled, unencrypted and unfiltered on your line. Certainly subbing to digital service should remove any filtering on the line, but that doesn't solve any encryption that may be employed on the digital channels. TWC can require certain equipment to receive some of their channels such as a rented tuner box or a cable card device along with the associated rental fee for the cable card.


I would say that if you have access to all the analog channels TWC offers and you cannot find a single unencrypted digital channel with your tuner, then you've got a problem that isn't TWC related (tuner box configuration, bad tuner box, etc).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You qualify to receive whatever is sent unscrambled, unencrypted and unfiltered on your line. Certainly subbing to digital service should remove any filtering on the line, but that doesn't solve any encryption that may be employed on the digital channels. TWC can require certain equipment to receive some of their channels such as a rented tuner box or a cable card device along with the associated rental fee for the cable card.
> 
> 
> I would say that if you have access to all the analog channels TWC offers and you cannot find a single unencrypted digital channel with your tuner, then you've got a problem that isn't TWC related (tuner box configuration, bad tuner box, etc).



Cable systems use Quadrature Amplitude Modulation, either 64-bit QAM or 256-bit QAM for digital channels. The OTA ATSC format is 8-VSB... 8-bit Vestigial Sideband Modulation. It's an entirely different animal from QAM and even looks radically different on a spectrum analyzer. An ATSC tuner that stumbles across a QAM signal won't even know that anything is there and vice-versa. This is expected behavior and doesn't indicate a hardware failure.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Thanks again guys for all the feedback thus far. I think my main problem is that since I only have basic analog service, that TW has filters in place to block everything else. So I guess I'm going to have to try to upgrade to Digital service or maybe try for some OTA HDTV.

Is it complicated to try to set up an indoor antenna?... or is it as simple a plug-n-play? I have a nice big bay window in my living room. Hopefully that should help.


----------



## SKoprowski

TWC in my area uses blockers- if you have basic cable- they put on a high band blocker so you can't get the QAM stuff on the high band. I have roadrunner which uses the high band so I can split my internet cable to a qam tuner and get the local hd channels. They did put a low band blocker so I don't get the basic cable.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ooo ya. I forgot about RR being that high bandwidth. I was thinking of switching to RR too since they're getting ready to jack up my DSL cost.

Skoprowski, how many channels can you bring in? Do you also have an OTA antenna??... and if so, how many channels canyou get with that?


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ooo ya. I forgot about RR being that high bandwidth. I was thinking of switching to RR too since they're getting ready to jack up my DSL cost.
> 
> Skoprowski, how many channels can you bring in? Do you also have an OTA antenna??... and if so, how many channels canyou get with that?




Smarty-Pants..If you go back a page or two in the thread it will describe my experience with QAM Tuner-Roadrunner-I get about 20 or so channels including digitals on 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43..along with surprisingly enough, a few other broadcast signals from out of the area and some cable channels..along with Canton LP-Channel 52..


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is expected behavior and doesn't indicate a hardware failure.



And yet his tuner has QAM demodulation, so how does that not possibly indicate a hardware failure?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Smarty-Pants..If you go back a page or two in the thread it will describe my experience with QAM Tuner-Roadrunner-I get about 20 or so channels including digitals on 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43..along with surprisingly enough, a few other broadcast signals from out of the area and some cable channels..along with Canton LP-Channel 52..



Wow, thanks Tim. I'll check it out.


----------



## Speedskater

*Cox Cleveland Updates SARA Firmware*

On Feb. 27th, Cox Cleveland finally updated the SA 8300HD, SARA firmware.

Have not yet checked what the new Ver. # is, but it has 4 fast forward speeds.

I've been busy:
www.ohiospeedskating.com/nationals.htm


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Cox Cleveland Updates SATA Firmware*
> 
> On Feb. 27th, Cox Cleveland finally updated the SA 8300HD, SATA firmware.
> 
> Have not yet checked what the new Ver. # is, but it has 4 fast forward speeds.
> 
> I've been busy:
> www.ohiospeedskating.com/nationals.htm



It's been a while but besides the 4th speed I think it allowed us to playback from the beginning while the show was still in recording process. However I'm not certain, that was with Adelphia and they let us have it for 2 days and then pulled it.


I know for sure that whatever the second thing was I liked it. I thought the 4th speed however was too fast for most practical purposes.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks again guys for all the feedback thus far. I think my main problem is that since I only have basic analog service, that TW has filters in place to block everything else. So I guess I'm going to have to try to upgrade to Digital service or maybe try for some OTA HDTV.
> 
> Is it complicated to try to set up an indoor antenna?... or is it as simple a plug-n-play? I have a nice big bay window in my living room. Hopefully that should help.



Is your bay window facing in the direction of the transmitters? If so you can use an indoor antenna with better results than if you were aiming at a wall. The other question is how far you are from the transmitters, aiming out the window won't help you if you need the antenna to be 30' above ground level.


Years ago I had a friend who lived on the 23rd floor of a high rise apartment along the Lake Erie shoreline in Euclid. He could get both the Youngstown and Erie UHF stations perfectly with the little bow-tie that came with his TV (he was on the eastern side of the building with a big balcony with sliding glass doors).


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Canton/N.Canton/44721. If I can't get free HDTV or anything like that from TW, I will then need an antenna. Any suggestions on what type of setup I need for my location? I am poor right now and am looking for a CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE solution.
> 
> Thanks



A zip of 44721 puts you north or east of N. Canton proper, probably somewhere in Plain Twp. Its mostly flat in that direction, so you may have a good shot at OTA digital TV with an inexpensive indoor antenna. Especially if you have north (Cleveland) or east (Y-town) facing windows. From Y-town, you should be able to get WKBN-DT and probably WFMJ-DT. From Cleveland, you might have problems with WKYC-DT and possibly WOIO-DT. From the NW side of N. Canton, I can get WKBN-DT and WFMJ-DT with a Philips indoor amplified antenna pointed out a north facing window. For Cleveland reception, I am hooked into a 30-foot high outdoor antenna - I receive all Cleveland stations consistantly except for WKYC-DT and occasional problems with WOIO-DT.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I just stumbled across this from the Canadian's equivelent of the FCC:
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/No...b2007-14.htm#5 

A new analog station is being proposed for ch 26 in London, Ontario.


Maybe WVIZ should consider staying on ch 25 at the end of the transition.


----------



## dj9

I can't put up an antenna becuase of an evil homeowners association (and I have cable).


I've already got TWC, but I am considering dropping the DVR (as it probably uses as much/more power than my computer and is loud -- and I only watch locals anyway). I would probably get the HDHomeRun networked dual HDTV tuner instead as my HDTV is tunerless. It has two inputs/two tuners, one I wouldn't mind using for an antenna if I could get the Youngstown stations.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A zip of 44721 puts you north or east of N. Canton proper, probably somewhere in Plain Twp. Its mostly flat in that direction, so you may have a good shot at OTA digital TV with an inexpensive indoor antenna. Especially if you have north (Cleveland) or east (Y-town) facing windows. From Y-town, you should be able to get WKBN-DT and probably WFMJ-DT. From Cleveland, you might have problems with WKYC-DT and possibly WOIO-DT. From the NW side of N. Canton, I can get WKBN-DT and WFMJ-DT with a Philips indoor amplified antenna pointed out a north facing window. For Cleveland reception, I am hooked into a 30-foot high outdoor antenna - I receive all Cleveland stations consistantly except for WKYC-DT and occasional problems with WOIO-DT.



I'm in 44319 (Green, OH) so I imagine results would be similar for me, no?


Any recommendations on antenna choices, preferably something I could buy locally and return if results are unsatisfactory? Belden Village is the preferred shopping area.


I've got an east-facing window in the preferred location, but as the tuner I want to get is Ethernet-based, I can put it wherever I would like (to wire Ethernet, that is). Perhaps I could get a little creative...


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just stumbled across this from the Canadian's equivelent of the FCC:
> http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/No...b2007-14.htm#5
> 
> A new analog station is being proposed for ch 26 in London, Ontario.
> 
> 
> Maybe WVIZ should consider staying on ch 25 at the end of the transition.



IIRC, KDKA in Pittsburgh is going with Ch 25, so that would be no better.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's been a while but besides the 4th speed I think it allowed us to playback from the beginning while the show was still in recording process. However I'm not certain, that was with Adelphia and they let us have it for 2 days and then pulled it.
> 
> 
> I know for sure that whatever the second thing was I liked it. I thought the 4th speed however was too fast for most practical purposes.



Yep, the option to play from the beginning is back! And hopefully now the program won't blow out when you are behind and the program ends like it did previously. Nothing more aggravating than pausing a program and then have it go live when it ends and you lose your place. And I totally agree with you that the 4th speed was useless in the past as it was far too fast for anything other than going from the start to the end of a really long movie quickly. Thankfully, they have slowed down that 4th speed and now it's very useable! It's just a bit quicker than the 3x speed. I also noticed that the regular program labels while scrolling now has the program rating.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And yet his tuner has QAM demodulation, so how does that not possibly indicate a hardware failure?



I was under the impression from the discussion that his tuner didn't include QAM service, based on his mention of ATSC. I'm sorry if I misunderstood this.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm in 44319 (Green, OH) so I imagine results would be similar for me, no?
> 
> 
> Any recommendations on antenna choices, preferably something I could buy locally and return if results are unsatisfactory? Belden Village is the preferred shopping area.



Being in Green, you're a little further west (away from Y-town), but still probably close enough for a shot at reception with an indoor, especially with the east-facing window.


My guess is that an amplified antenna will help - I originally had an unamplified, and could not get WKBN-DT. The Philips that I have has a switch that allows you to turn the amplifier on or off.


Numerous places in the BV area to get an indoor antenna - Radio Shack, Sears, Walmart - I think I've even seen them at Lowes. I'm sure you would be able to return it to any of these stores if unsatisfied.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't put up an antenna becuase of an evil homeowners association (and I have cable).



The homeowners association cannot prevent you from putting up an antenna. The fact that you have cable has nothing to do with it. Their restriction is unenforceable. If you want to put up an antenna, you may. See the following FCC ruling for full information:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html


----------



## bassguitarman

Adelphia backed the update out because with Fox8HD there were problems when they went to commecials or non-hd content the SA8300 would stop recording and then sometimes restart. It ended up breaking a show up into segments.

I haven recorded Fox8HD since the update to see if the problem is still there.


----------



## Dweezilz

Are you sure that this particular update is what casued that? I'm not sure why but I thought that the issue with FOX and segmented recording was a problem for longer than the day and a half that Adelphia left the update in force. Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly and that problem was only for a day or two? Seems longer when I think back. I remember many saying they didn't really know why the update was pulled other than the 4X speed was too fast.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia backed the update out because with Fox8HD there were problems when they went to commecials or non-hd content the SA8300 would stop recording and then sometimes restart. It ended up breaking a show up into segments.
> 
> I haven recorded Fox8HD since the update to see if the problem is still there.



This was traced to an MPEG continuity issue in a piece of equipment at Fox8. It has long since been corrected by them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you sure that this particular update is what casued that? I'm not sure why but I thought that the issue with FOX and segmented recording was a problem for longer than the day and a half that Adelphia left the update in force. Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly and that problem was only for a day or two? Seems longer when I think back. I remember many saying they didn't really know why the update was pulled other than the 4X speed was too fast.



Actually, your correct. It really didn't have anything to do with the update it was more or less a case of Adelphia panicking and pushing everything back. The problem was really on FOX's end. Since then they haven't had the cajones to try it again.


Of course I really don't know what the have on the SA 8300 anymore since I drug mine via chain and rope tied back to my car to them after purchasing my TiVo S3.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course I really don't know what the have on the SA 8300 anymore



The 4x speed is back, so I assume that the rest of the upgrade is in place as well. It appears that the update took place yesterday (on my system anyway). I say that because my DVR was down when I got home at about 9PM last night. Every time I pushed the "List" button, it told me that my DVR function was being tested, please wait. After about 15 minutes of waiting, I got impatient and pulled the plug on the DVR (mine is an 8000, btw). It took a long time to reboot completely (another 15 minutes or so), and then everything worked correctly again - but with the new software in place. I didn't check the actual version number. And I don't really notice any significant new features either, just some font changes and a few small details. But if they fixed the problem where the playback craps out when the show ends, I'll be happy.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, your correct. It really didn't have anything to do with the update it was more or less a case of Adelphia panicking and pushing everything back. The problem was really on FOX's end. Since then they haven't had the cajones to try it again.
> 
> 
> Of course I really don't know what the have on the SA 8300 anymore since I drug mine via chain and rope tied back to my car to them after purchasing my TiVo S3.



Adelphia updated yesterday too! I wonder if this sudden activity has something to do with the change in daylight savings time.


Maybe I can finally hook it up to my receiver via HDMI. I also noticed that the Day + and Day - commands that my Harmony remote has now work in the program guide.


----------



## DBarros




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every time I pushed the "List" button, it told me that my DVR function was being tested, please wait. After about 15 minutes of waiting, I got impatient and pulled the plug on the DVR (mine is an 8000, btw). It took a long time to reboot completely (another 15 minutes or so), and then everything worked correctly again - but with the new software in place.



My 8000 is doing the same thing since that update that went though on Wednesday morning. I can't access my recorded programs, nor can I record anything. Says the same Error message. I will do what you did, and pull the plug...and see if the reboot corrects the problem..like it did for you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Adelphia updated yesterday too! I wonder if this sudden activity has something to do with the change in daylight savings time.
> 
> 
> Maybe I can finally hook it up to my receiver via HDMI. I also noticed that the Day + and Day - commands that my Harmony remote has now work in the program guide.



The SA 8300 always worked with HDMI. It shouldn't take an update for that to work for you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DBarros* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 8000 is doing the same thing since that update that went though on Wednesday morning. I can't access my recorded programs, nor can I record anything. Says the same Error message. I will do what you did, and pull the plug...and see if the reboot corrects the problem..like it did for you.



I called Time Warner about a billing error this morning and the hold time was incredibly long. Since nothing ever gets done with one phone call with these people on the second call they had a message saying "blah blah, if your machine is not working, reboot by unplugging."


Apparently they didn't send out the signal to reboot like they were suppose to.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The SA 8300 always worked with HDMI. It shouldn't take an update for that to work for you.




It has always worked when hooked directly to the TV. When hooked up through a receiver (which is considered a repeater), the HDCP handshaking fails. This was fixed about a year and a half ago by SA, but the firmware Adelphia was using was from before the fix.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It has always worked when hooked directly to the TV. When hooked up through a receiver (which is considered a repeater), the HDCP handshaking fails. This was fixed about a year and a half ago by SA, but the firmware Adelphia was using was from before the fix.



I spoke to someone yesterday who tried it through a repeater and it worked fine. Give it a go.


----------



## Andrew K

I can swear that wind really affects the DTV OTA signal. Today, I've been having a flakey and highly fluctuating signal, and it has been a gusty day. It seems like everytime it's windy, this happens.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 4x speed is back, so I assume that the rest of the upgrade is in place as well. It appears that the update took place yesterday (on my system anyway). I say that because my DVR was down when I got home at about 9PM last night. Every time I pushed the "List" button, it told me that my DVR function was being tested, please wait. After about 15 minutes of waiting, I got impatient and pulled the plug on the DVR (mine is an 8000, btw). It took a long time to reboot completely (another 15 minutes or so), and then everything worked correctly again - but with the new software in place. I didn't check the actual version number. And I don't really notice any significant new features either, just some font changes and a few small details. But if they fixed the problem where the playback craps out when the show ends, I'll be happy.



The major part of the update is that you can now watch a recording program from the beginning instead of having to rewind with your eyes closed so you don't see the entire show backwards!







To me this is HUGE as I often want to start watching in the middle of a recording program but in the past have found myself just waiting until it was over. The option to start at the beginning solves that issue for me and I was really ticked when they teased us with it last year! When the update was put in last year for a day, it also prevented the show from kicking out if it ended while you were watching it delayed. I haven't tested that yet, but I'm assuming that's in this fix as well. I sure hope so.


One thing I do not like about this fix is that program rating (PG, MA, etc.) that was added to the scrolling window. Previously it was the review rating (ie 2 1/2 stars, 4 stars, etc...). Now you can't see that unless you to to the guide and hit info. I like the old way better.


One other thing to look out for is that the update reset the audio volume setting back to variable so you'll need to change it back to fixed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The major part of the update is that you can now watch a recording program from the beginning instead of having to rewind with your eyes closed so you don't see the entire show backwards!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me this is HUGE as I often want to start watching in the middle of a recording program but in the past have found myself just waiting until it was over. The option to start at the beginning solves that issue for me and I was really ticked when they teased us with it last year! When the update was put in last year for a day, it also prevented the show from kicking out if it ended while you were watching it delayed. I haven't tested that yet, but I'm assuming that's in this fix as well. I sure hope so.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I do not like about this fix is that program rating (PG, MA, etc.) that was added to the scrolling window. Previously it was the review rating (ie 2 1/2 stars, 4 stars, etc...). Now you can't see that unless you to to the guide and hit info. I like the old way better.
> 
> 
> One other thing to look out for is that the update reset the audio volume setting back to variable so you'll need to change it back to fixed.



So I was right about the start from the beginning thing. It had been a while.


That is a convinent feature. Of course since I have a TiVo S3 I've had that for a while. Not to mention a relible DVR, that doesn't do partial recordings (SA 8300 did at least two partials for weeks) and one with a good search feature, a real season pass manager.......


I could go on and on but then you would all think I'm bragging.....lol....and I am.


----------



## Dweezilz

I just noticed another new feature. When selecting to record a program multiple times, it now adds the option to record this channel, this time and THIS DAY instead of just any day or any time. Definately something that has long been needed. I'm sick of recording ROME 4 times per week since they show it at 9:00 PM so many times.


Still it's a far cry from TiVo S3, but at least some needed features are being added...and I didn't drop $800 for it or pay $12.95 a month.







...but yeah, I get that it's great. I know you had huge issues with your 8300hd so I'm glad the new TiVo is working out for you. Funny thing is that I've rarely had an issue with my 8300's (I have 3 of them). I heard that Comcast is in talks to add TiVo functionality. It would be great if TW did the same.


UPDATE - Just noticed another feature. If watching 4:3 SD and output at 1080i or 720p 16:9, the side bars are now grey instead of black. That'll help with uneven wear for those with CRT or Plasma (and even LCD in some cases with retention).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> UPDATE - Just noticed another feature. If watching 4:3 SD and output at 1080i or 720p 16:9, the side bars are now grey instead of black. That'll help with uneven wear for those with CRT or Plasma (and even LCD in some cases with retention).



The shade of the blank pillarbox or letterbox bars is user-adjustable from the settings menu. I believe the default setting is grey and you can change it to white or black depending on your preferences. Grey is the best setting though in terms of evening out the wear on the phosphors.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The shade of the blank pillarbox or letterbox bars is user-adjustable from the settings menu. I believe the default setting is grey and you can change it to white or black depending on your preferences. Grey is the best setting though in terms of evening out the wear on the phosphors.



Assuming you have phosphors.










When the box reset with the software updated the other day, it must have gone back to the default of grey. Strangly, all three of my SA8300HD's came with the bars set to black. I never realized that the setting called 'TV borders' (or something close to that) was really the pillarbox settings. It always irked me that SA would have the bars black which is the worst for CRT's and Plasmas. I just didn't know what that was for. You'd figure SA would make it a little more clear than just TV borders. ha!


Speaking of black bars...my buddy just told me his Diamond series Mitsubishi has burn-in now (uneven wear) because of those black bars. Not sure why he was watching so much pillarboxed 4:3 but those grey bars would have helped him.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Speaking of black bars...my buddy just told me his Diamond series Mitsubishi has burn-in now (uneven wear) because of those black bars. Not sure why he was watching so much pillarboxed 4:3 but those grey bars would have helped him.



He might be able to reverse this by changing the pillarbox borders to white for awhile. That'll allow the phosphors at the edges to catch up with the wear in the center.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just noticed another new feature. When selecting to record a program multiple times, it now adds the option to record this channel, this time and THIS DAY instead of just any day or any time. Definately something that has long been needed. I'm sick of recording ROME 4 times per week since they show it at 9:00 PM so many times.
> 
> 
> Still it's a far cry from TiVo S3, but at least some needed features are being added...and I didn't drop $800 for it or pay $12.95 a month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but yeah, I get that it's great. I know you had huge issues with your 8300hd so I'm glad the new TiVo is working out for you. Funny thing is that I've rarely had an issue with my 8300's (I have 3 of them). I heard that Comcast is in talks to add TiVo functionality. It would be great if TW did the same.
> 
> 
> UPDATE - Just noticed another feature. If watching 4:3 SD and output at 1080i or 720p 16:9, the side bars are now grey instead of black. That'll help with uneven wear for those with CRT or Plasma (and even LCD in some cases with retention).



I noticed the update on Time Warner this week also. Ironic that Cox and Time Warner both update. The "play from beginning" alone is about a 200% improvement in my opinion. Especially handy when watching sports...you can watch a TNT Cavaliers game in about 1/3 of the time, thanks to their super long halftime and extraordinary number of commercials...


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed the update on Time Warner this week also. Ironic that Cox and Time Warner both update. The "play from beginning" alone is about a 200% improvement in my opinion. Especially handy when watching sports...you can watch a TNT Cavaliers game in about 1/3 of the time, thanks to their super long halftime and extraordinary number of commercials...



So you can see the Cavs lose sooner







LOL


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So you can see the Cavs lose sooner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL



Ummm, don't they have like the 7th or 8th best W-L record in the entire NBA, and second place in their division right now?

I haven't seen any games or scores for a while. Are they on a losing streak or something??


----------



## SKoprowski

Not really- I'm just a Piston fan and couldn't pass that up.


----------



## dleising

2nd best in the east and 4 GB Detroit.


----------



## paule123

I emailed STO and got a response back that their Indians away games will not be in HD this year. That's disappointing. IIRC, last year STO said in 2007 they would be equipped to have the away games in HD in addition to the home games.


I see WKYC has their 20 games again - I assume they will have both home and away coverage in HD, like last year.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle.../broadcast.jsp 


I also notice no Fox (Saturday) or ESPN (Sunday night) games are listed on the schedule, but I guess they make those decisions later?


----------



## hookbill

Whooo, you scarred me for a bit. I thought you said NO Indians games in HD at first. So it will be like last year, all home games.


Sure I'd like to see road games too, but that's still a heck of alot of baseball in HD.


----------



## brh-z2

hookbill,


I read the same thing on paule123's post. Almost fell out of my chair. But you are right, half the season is still very nice and better than we are getting from our other sports teams.


----------



## hookbill

Here's the big question. Is FOX going to show Saturday games in HD this year? It seems about time.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the big question. Is FOX going to show Saturday games in HD this year? It seems about time.



Yep, this was announced a few months ago. Fox Saturday games in HD this year.

MLB on FOX


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the big question. Is FOX going to show Saturday games in HD this year? It seems about time.


 HD Sports Guide reports that all regular season games will be in HD.


EDIT: I guess I need to be slightly faster.


----------



## hookbill

Thanks guys. That made my day!


----------



## clevemkt

WEAO-DT should be back to normal... VRM replaced. 49-1, 49-2, 49-3.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can swear that wind really affects the DTV OTA signal. Today, I've been having a flakey and highly fluctuating signal, and it has been a gusty day. It seems like everytime it's windy, this happens.



I have noticed the same thing. I live in North Canton and get all my HD programming OTA via an amplified indoor rabbit ears antenna and ATSC tuner. I have strong reception except on those days when the winds are kicking up. For some stations, the airplanes going over my house on their way to land at Akron-Canton Airport also disrupt the signal. Does anyone know if wind or planes would afffect reception from an outdoor antenna ?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have noticed the same thing. I live in North Canton and get all my HD programming OTA via an amplified indoor rabbit ears antenna and ATSC tuner. I have strong reception except on those days when the winds are kicking up. For some stations, the airplanes going over my house on their way to land at Akron-Canton Airport also disrupt the signal. Does anyone know if wind or planes would afffect reception from an outdoor antenna ?



From what I've learned about a digital signal compared to analog, it is highly suceptible when it comes to the analog equivalent of ghosting. If you have this problem of ghosting, then chances are, your digital OTA signal will be crappy with high fluctuations or whatever. This was a problem I have experienced when I lived in a different part of Akron, where analogs were ghosty. A directional antenna will help reduce this effect, but on windy days (and even planes flying over), the moving trees may cause the signal to bounce in weird and unpredictable directions. The only solution I can think of, is for the antenna to be high enough above all of these obstructions to minimize this effect.


----------



## kris926

It's good to see some fellow North Canton area folks on here! I too have noticed fluctuations and wondered how much interference can be attributed to the airport. I'm actually north of North Canton along one of the main flight paths. Somedays I get good reception and others it is greatly reduced. I'm usually OK with CH 21 out of Y-town but could barely get a watchable signal last night. Not sure if this is from interference or a station problem. I know part of my problem is that my antennas are in the attic. I don't know if this adds multi-path. I have a VHF/UHF pointed toward Cleveland and a UHF pointed toward Y-Town. Both are combined then amplified. I know an outdoor antenna would be best but we're not "supposed" to have them and the wife doesn't want a big growth off the roof! Has anyone here tried the Winegard MS2000 omni antenna or similar. I could probably get away with this mounted to my old dish mast. Denny from dennysantennaservice web site claims this antenna would work well at this location but I'm skeptical. His site shows many happy people and will do a full refund including shipping. Any input before I give it a try?

Thanks!


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris926* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone here tried the Winegard MS2000 omni antenna or similar. I could probably get away with this mounted to my old dish mast. Denny from dennysantennaservice web site claims this antenna would work well at this location but I'm skeptical. His site shows many happy people and will do a full refund including shipping. Any input before I give it a try?
> 
> Thanks!



This fall I mounted a Winegard Sensar III (GS2200) on my 2 story roof with a short mast. I also looked at the Square Shooter, but found it was weak in the VHF range. I get decent reception with it even though I have a line of very tall trees (20 ft taller than the antenna) about 30ft from the house in the direction of the Parma antenna farm. I usually get digital from 3, 5, 19, but 8, and 43 are spotty day to day (weather affects OTA reception too). Youngstown is spotty since I don't have the antenna pointed that way. 45/49 comes in great. I'm sure my reception will get worse as the leaves grow this spring. All this to say that your surrounding landscape is more critical to your reception than your antenna type, as long as your using one made for the range you're at from the towers (check antennaweb.org). I have heard an omni directional antenna such as the MS2000 is not as good as a directional antenna when you are battling multi-path issues such as reflected signal from buildings, towers, and even perhaps planes. It would help you pick up the Cleveland and Y-town markets without rotating the antenna though. The Sensar is a wing style that isn't too obtrusive up on top of the roof. What ever you choose, do get an amplified antenna and maybe even a rotor.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I used to use a Radio Shack Omni at my old house. I put it on a 20' mast (2 10' sections) it never fell as it's weight an profile was not subject to swaying. I foud that rotating it ever so slightly makes a big difference (even though they claim it's omnidirectional, it not perfectly omni).


The bottom line with omni's is finding the "sweet spot" where all desired stations come in 100% of the time. The best way to do this is by watching your weakest station while tweaking the rotation. Even which side of your chimney the mast is mounted on may make a big difference.


----------



## kris926

Thanks for the replies! I'm getting pretty good reception today, go figure. I think my terrain is OK. I've got nothing toward Youngstown and just the tops of trees about 200' from my house in line with Cleveland. The Winegard MS2000 is an amplified omni but the directions do state that it needs rotated to find the best reception. The info on Dennys Antenna Sevice web site shows results from different areas based on your state. Again it seems like he's had a high success rate with this antenna even for distances beyond its rating. I'm not plugging his business but he had some good info and gave me a good reply to some questions. Any other experiences from this antenna or similar ones?

Thanks


----------



## Ognir

Sound question.


While watching WEWS HD in Massillon

I noticed how bad the sound track was off

This was during Jimmy Kimmel live and again to day with Reggis and Kelly


It becomes very hard to watch as it seems to get worse as the show go on.

Anyone else notice this?



http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks


----------



## Michael P 2341

I have not noticed WEWS being out of sync lately (the news was in sync), however another local station was way out-of sync last night: WEAO. They seem to have this problam on a regular basis. It had this problem over 2 years ago when I first got an ATSC tuner. Last night during The Nightly Business report (after midnight) it was painful to watch - it was well over a second out of sync.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West pushed out an update for the SA8300HD boxes (it's about time!)


Now running SARA 1.88.22.1. It's a May 2006 release... only took 'em 10 months to push it to the customers, LOL. The FF 4X is there, the Video Source (Aux) button on the remote now works, there's more Firewire and in-home server (multi room view) stuff on the diagnostics screens. Not sure if firewire has been enabled, though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wide Open West pushed out an update for the SA8300HD boxes (it's about time!)
> 
> 
> Now running SARA 1.88.22.1. It's a May 2006 release... only took 'em 10 months to push it to the customers, LOL. The FF 4X is there, the Video Source (Aux) button on the remote now works, there's more Firewire and in-home server (multi room view) stuff on the diagnostics screens. Not sure if firewire has been enabled, though.



Someone told me that the firewire was enabled on 1.87.xx.x but they never got back to me as to what they were able to do with it.


When you say MRV are you able to do that with all content? Do you have two DVR's to try it?


Just curious, we can't do that with the S2 because of CableLabs hasn't resolved their issues with TiVo.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have not noticed WEWS being out of sync lately (the news was in sync), however another local station was way out-of sync last night: WEAO. They seem to have this problam on a regular basis.



I have noticed both of these stations having audio-video sync issues within the past week. WEWS-DT was pre-empting ABC programming one night and showing Billy Graham and they had the sync problem then. I also noticed the sync problem one night last week on WEAO-DT during one of their pledge drive breaks. These two stations seem to have the most problems with this in our market, although I have not noticed it on WEWS-DT as much lately. It used to be a frequent problem on their Saturday night ABC movie.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For some stations, the airplanes going over my house on their way to land at Akron-Canton Airport also disrupt the signal. Does anyone know if wind or planes would afffect reception from an outdoor antenna ?



Do you ever get the Life Flight or Air National Guard helicopters flying over your house? Those will disrupt the signal briefly also. At times, they will fly DIRECTLY over my house - rattling windows and all. More than likely, multipath interference. Large metal object appears in the sky and reflects RF signals in unexpected ways. Fortunately, the phenomenon is brief - the aircraft passes over and it is gone. Just be thankful that we are not living in a flight path to O'Hare in Chicago - those folks probably have constant OTA reception issues.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Someone told me that the firewire was enabled on 1.87.xx.x but they never got back to me as to what they were able to do with it.
> 
> 
> When you say MRV are you able to do that with all content? Do you have two DVR's to try it?
> 
> 
> Just curious, we can't do that with the S2 because of CableLabs hasn't resolved their issues with TiVo.



I said I saw the MRV stuff in the diagnostics screens, I didn't say it actually worked







I would expect it to work sometime shortly after hell freezes over. I haven't seen any mentions of SA enabling MRV anywhere.


With 1.87.16, firewire did nothing when plugged into a windows XP PC. Last night after the 1.88.22 upgrade, I plugged it into my laptop and it started detecting the SA8300HD AVC device, etc etc. Of course, this leads you to a nightmare of driver installation and software configuration, none of which is officially supported or well documented. It'll take me a week just to find the right thread here on AVS that steps me through getting firewire and the SA8300HD working with XP.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have noticed both of these stations having audio-video sync issues within the past week. WEWS-DT was pre-empting ABC programming one night and showing Billy Graham and they had the sync problem then. I also noticed the sync problem one night last week on WEAO-DT during one of their pledge drive breaks. These two stations seem to have the most problems with this in our market, although I have not noticed it on WEWS-DT as much lately. It used to be a frequent problem on their Saturday night ABC movie.




Here I thought it was a cable problem.

Sometimes it is hard to watch it is so far off.


http://www.myspace.com/guitaristpeterbanks


----------



## kris926




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you ever get the Life Flight or Air National Guard helicopters flying over your house? Those will disrupt the signal briefly also. At times, they will fly DIRECTLY over my house - rattling windows and all.



The choppers do fly DIRECTLY over my house. I love the big Chinooks. I can't tell if they cause any reception problems because my vision gets distorted from the teeth rattling in my head!


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you ever get the Life Flight or Air National Guard helicopters flying over your house? Those will disrupt the signal briefly also.



I'm due south of the Akron-Canton airport, planes fly

directly overhead at about 1000 ft... I usually get

2 or 3 freezes when the planes fly over... when they're

stacked up it gets annoying... on the spectrum

analyzer the normally flat waveform develops a sinewave

varying in frequency as the plane moves over...


Ed...


----------



## paule123

I got a chuckle this morning when scrolling through my channel guide on WOW. There's a channel (995?) that's an on-screen Caller-ID service. If you have WOW phone (VOIP) and their cable TV service, for a mere additional $2 a month, they'll activate Caller ID through the SA8300HD.










Anyway to squeeze another nickel out of the customers, I guess.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm due south of the Akron-Canton airport, planes fly
> 
> directly overhead at about 1000 ft... I usually get
> 
> 2 or 3 freezes when the planes fly over... when they're
> 
> stacked up it gets annoying... on the spectrum
> 
> analyzer the normally flat waveform develops a sinewave
> 
> varying in frequency as the plane moves over...
> 
> 
> Ed...



Have you tried putting up a taller fence to keep the planes out of your property?


----------



## andy.s.lee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm due south of the Akron-Canton airport, planes fly
> 
> directly overhead at about 1000 ft... I usually get
> 
> 2 or 3 freezes when the planes fly over... when they're
> 
> stacked up it gets annoying... on the spectrum
> 
> analyzer the normally flat waveform develops a sinewave
> 
> varying in frequency as the plane moves over...
> 
> 
> Ed...



If you've got a spectrum analyzer and you know what frequencies the planes are transmitting on, then maybe you could use a notch or band-stop filter to get rid of the interference.


Best regards,

Andy


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andy.s.lee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you've got a spectrum analyzer and you know what frequencies the planes are transmitting on, then maybe you could use a notch or band-stop filter to get rid of the interference.
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Andy



Methinks he's seeing phase cancellation setting itself up from the reflections from the plane's body. That must be an interesting looking waveform.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andy.s.lee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you've got a spectrum analyzer and you know what frequencies the planes are transmitting on, then maybe you could use a notch or band-stop filter to get rid of the interference.



Agree with Cathode Kid...

I'm guessing its the sum of the direct and

reflected signals as the aircraft reflected

signal changes in amplitude and phase...

Ed...


----------



## lefkas

Does anyone know if CBS plans to show all the NCAA Tournament games in hi def or just some ?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if CBS plans to show all the NCAA Tournament games in hi def or just some ?



All the games:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=817525 


Edit: I should correct that to say CBS (the network) will cover all the games in HD, but whether or not your affiliate shows the HD version or an SD version is another story. Here's the programming notes for March Madness on www.woio.com :

http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=menu68_7 


"HD coverage plans will be announced shortly."


If I understand this "constant coverage" thing correctly, it looks like the Ohio State game on Thursday night will be SD. How stupid is that?


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if CBS plans to show all the NCAA Tournament games in hi def or just some ?



The promos I seen for the games all said in HD.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The promos I seen for the games all said in HD.



Did you bother to read the two links in the post above yours? The only hope will be if WOIO puts one of the four flex HD feeds on its on its digital channel instead of upconverting the constant Ohio State SD feed. And even if they did that, the most HD you probably would see of the Ohio State game would be the highlights. Even so, I hope they do that to give us the most viewing flexability. I know I'm dreaming though.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you bother to read the two links in the post above yours? The only hope will be if WOIO puts one of the four flex HD feeds on its on its digital channel instead of upconverting the constant Ohio State SD feed. And even if they did that, the most HD you probably would see of the Ohio State game would be the highlights. Even so, I hope they do that to give us the most viewing flexability. I know I'm dreaming though.




If you mean this post which is 2 above mine YES :


>>Does anyone know if CBS plans to show all the NCAA Tournament games in hi def or just some ?


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you mean this post which is 2 above mine YES :
> 
> 
> >>Does anyone know if CBS plans to show all the NCAA Tournament games in hi def or just some ?


----------



## paule123

WOIO has updated their March Madness programming notes page to include the Friday schedule as well as the Thursday schedule:

http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=menu68_7 


They don't make absolutely clear whether Ohio State is HD or not...


"The CBS network will be broadcasting an HD feed from all of the sites for the first and second-round games. NOTE that all of the HD feeds will be "flex" feeds that are switched between venues throughout each day. WOIO-DT will broadcast the games in HD as fed by CBS."


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They don't make absolutely clear whether Ohio State is HD or not...
> 
> 
> "The CBS network will be broadcasting an HD feed from all of the sites for the first and second-round games. NOTE that all of the HD feeds will be "flex" feeds that are switched between venues throughout each day. WOIO-DT will broadcast the games in HD as fed by CBS."



Based on the following excerpt from another thread, it appears eveything is HD except for the OSU game Thursday night:


"For each Window or Time Slot:

- If the local affiliate is in a Flex Region, they will broadcast the game is HD.


- If the local affiliate is in a Constant Region, they will upconvert the SD Constant Feed."


WOIO has an asterisk next to the OSU game denoting it as a "constant" designation, thus no HD. What sense does that make ?


----------



## SteveC

The best that we can hope for is that they put one of the four HD flex feeds on the digital channel. My guess though is that they will mindlessly just upconvert the SD Ohio State constant feed and put that on the digital channel giving us no options. I could see though how that would be much simpler for them from the standpoint of inserting their local commercials. They probably would not even want to think about having to keep track of two different feeds.


----------



## ClevelandRob

So how bad was everyone's drop outs last night with all the weather? My OTA has been surprisingly reliable for the last 3-4 months until last night. It was so bad on CBS (Jericho) I had to watch SD on my Dish as the signal nearly locked up completely for a few minutes.


----------



## hookbill

I was recording Crossing Jordan and Bones at the same time. My wife called me from New Jersey because she heard about the tornado and asked me if I knew anything. I went to live TV and while I had no news for her I did observe that Crossing Jordan was experiencing pixelation and sound drop offs. Bones looked like it was coming in fine.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOIO has updated their March Madness programming notes page to include the Friday schedule as well as the Thursday schedule:
> 
> http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp...9&nav=menu68_7
> 
> 
> They don't make absolutely clear whether Ohio State is HD or not...
> 
> 
> "The CBS network will be broadcasting an HD feed from all of the sites for the first and second-round games. NOTE that all of the HD feeds will be "flex" feeds that are switched between venues throughout each day. WOIO-DT will broadcast the games in HD as fed by CBS."




Damn Im getting the Blue bars on the Butler game they say HD but its not in HD on WOIO-DT. Too bad D* is blacking out the MMM feeds that are on the local CBS station even the HD feeds. The SD upconvert looks like crap too.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damn Im getting the Blue bars on the Butler game they say HD but its not in HD on WOIO-DT. Too bad D* is blacking out the MMM feeds that are on the local CBS station even the HD feeds. The SD upconvert looks like crap too.



WOIO probably forgot to flip the switch. All the games on WOIO today except Ohio State should be HD, regardless of the D* MMM deal. I just tuned in at 3:45pm and I'm getting ORA/WASH in HD on WOIO OTA. The PQ isn't the greatest, but it's HD.


Edit: Old Dominion/Butler is on now, and it's HD.


----------



## flatiron




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So how bad was everyone's drop outs last night with all the weather? My OTA has been surprisingly reliable for the last 3-4 months until last night. It was so bad on CBS (Jericho) I had to watch SD on my Dish as the signal nearly locked up completely for a few minutes.



I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the CBS-HD feed being received by WOIO and not reception, as the SD upconvert (for the weather graphic overlays) during the first 1/2 of the show was perfect, and the dropouts and freezes only started when they switched to the HD feed.


----------



## paule123

After all that brouhaha about constant vs. flex feeds, I'm pleasantly surprised the Ohio State game is HD !


Hopefully they don't cut away early and go SD...


Edit: Ohio State game is SD now. Sigh.


----------



## stuart628

too late its sd


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So how bad was everyone's drop outs last night with all the weather? My OTA has been surprisingly reliable for the last 3-4 months until last night. It was so bad on CBS (Jericho) I had to watch SD on my Dish as the signal nearly locked up completely for a few minutes.



I don't think I had WOIO-DT on Wed night. But Thur night, I was trying to watch the Buckeyes game and the breakups and freezes were so bad, I had to switch over to WKBN-DT, which was showing the constant coverage SD feed. Oh well, from what I read above, WOIO-DT didn't stay with the HD flex feed for long. I did switch back over to WOIO-DT for the Duke-VCU game and reception was somewhat better - it was at least watchable.


My WOIO-DT reception has been less dependable lately, and I'm not sure why. Anybody else having more problems with OTA reception of WOIO-DT?


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flatiron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it was an issue with the CBS-HD feed being received by WOIO and not reception, as the SD upconvert (for the weather graphic overlays) during the first 1/2 of the show was perfect, and the dropouts and freezes only started when they switched to the HD feed.




Excellent observation... I didn't even think about that! I guess I have another reason to complain about WOIO.


Cheers.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think I had WOIO-DT on Wed night. But Thur night, I was trying to watch the Buckeyes game and the breakups and freezes were so bad, I had to switch over to WKBN-DT, which was showing the constant coverage SD feed. Oh well, from what I read above, WOIO-DT didn't stay with the HD flex feed for long. I did switch back over to WOIO-DT for the Duke-VCU game and reception was somewhat better - it was at least watchable.
> 
> 
> My WOIO-DT reception has been less dependable lately, and I'm not sure why. Anybody else having more problems with OTA reception of WOIO-DT?



WKBN reports that the rest of their NCAA schedule should be flex games meaning they should all be HD broadcasts. I hope they are right. The WKBN games following the OSU contest last night were all HD and looked great.


----------



## BrettMichael

TW Cleveland channel 774 iNHD rarely works for me. Tonight it shows NBA basketball (Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns) and since that game has playoff implications for the Cavs I figured I'd watch some of it. No deal; it's a black screen. I've noticed this a lot lately. Does anyone else on TW Cleveland have that problem? Also, I've read here about Fox Sports Ohio and Sports Time Ohio being available HD, but apparently TWC isn't providing them, at least not to me. Are TW Cleveland customers supposed to get those two crucial sports channels in HD?

_Edit:_ I think I figured out that STO uses 798 for HD, but what about FSO? I'm tired of watching the Cavs in SD; is there any HD Cavs coverage?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrettMichael* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TW Cleveland channel 774 iNHD rarely works for me. Tonight it shows NBA basketball (Detroit Pistons at Phoenix Suns) and since that game has playoff implications for the Cavs I figured I'd watch some of it. No deal; it's a black screen. I've noticed this a lot lately. Does anyone else on TW Cleveland have that problem? Also, I've read here about Fox Sports Ohio and Sports Time Ohio being available HD, but apparently TWC isn't providing them, at least not to me. Are TW Cleveland customers supposed to get those two crucial sports channels in HD?
> 
> _Edit:_ I think I figured out that STO uses 798 for HD, but what about FSO? I'm tired of watching the Cavs in SD; is there any HD Cavs coverage?



I haven't heard anything at all about FSO in HD. Right now for some reason TW doesn't seem to want to add anything.


The source for what's coming is a guy named hansen and the last I heard from him was that we were suppose to get Universal HD and another PBS staion in HD. But that was back around October and nothing happened.


This dude never missed prior to this so I don't know but I have a feeling that TW wants to complete the merger of Adelphia to TW lineup and I heard the goal for that is June. So I wouldn't hold my breath until then for any additional HD channels. I talked to someone at head end and they couldn't tell me anything either.


I have no idea why it was blacked out on INHD but I can't confirm because I am not a basketball fan and I wasn't looking.


----------



## BrettMichael




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't heard anything at all about FSO in HD. Right now for some reason TW doesn't seem to want to add anything.
> 
> 
> The source for what's coming is a guy named hansen and the last I heard from him was that we were suppose to get Universal HD and another PBS staion in HD. But that was back around October and nothing happened.
> 
> 
> This dude never missed prior to this so I don't know but I have a feeling that TW wants to complete the merger of Adelphia to TW lineup and I heard the goal for that is June. So I wouldn't hold my breath until then for any additional HD channels. I talked to someone at head end and they couldn't tell me anything either.
> 
> 
> I have no idea why it was blacked out on INHD but I can't confirm because I am not a basketball fan and I wasn't looking.



I did find this regarding this season of Cavaliers basketball in HD on FSO, apparently on channel 531, although I can't seem to verify that.


iNHD seems to be a black screen a large majority of the time. I'm not sure why that is, but they always show programming info and then when I tune in there's nothing there. Just wondering if that's happening with everyone else on TW in Cleveland with an 8300HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrettMichael* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did find this regarding this season of Cavaliers basketball in HD on FSO, apparently on channel 531, although I can't seem to verify that.
> 
> 
> iNHD seems to be a black screen a large majority of the time. I'm not sure why that is, but they always show programming info and then when I tune in there's nothing there. Just wondering if that's happening with everyone else on TW in Cleveland with an 8300HD.




The last time I checked INHD was working just fine. I have a TiVo S3 but if it works on mine it should work on yours.


Now this may seem like a real dumb question but you do realize that INHD is part of the HD Plus package? If you just have standard HD you don't get INHD.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The homeowners association cannot prevent you from putting up an antenna. The fact that you have cable has nothing to do with it. Their restriction is unenforceable. If you want to put up an antenna, you may. See the following FCC ruling for full information:
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html



Interesting link, however....



> Quote:
> In the case of condominiums, cooperatives, and rental properties, the rules apply to exclusive use areas, like terraces, balconies, or patios. Exclusive use means an area of the property that only you and people you permit may enter and use. If the area is shared with others or accessible without your permission, it is not considered.
> 
> 
> OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association, or jointly by condominium owners. These common areas may include the roof or exterior walls of a multiple dwelling unit.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just stumbled across this from the Canadian's equivelent of the FCC:
> http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/No...b2007-14.htm#5
> 
> A new analog station is being proposed for ch 26 in London, Ontario.
> 
> 
> Maybe WVIZ should consider staying on ch 25 at the end of the transition.



Or they can stay at 26 & use a milliwatt transmitter like 19 is going to do.


----------



## BrettMichael




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The last time I checked INHD was working just fine. I have a TiVo S3 but if it works on mine it should work on yours.
> 
> 
> Now this may seem like a real dumb question but you do realize that INHD is part of the HD Plus package? If you just have standard HD you don't get INHD.



When I signed up for HD on the phone I told them to give me all of the stations except premiums, which I believe was a slight upcharge (haven't gotten the bill yet).


The channel guide they gave me with the 8300HD shows two sections of HD: HDTV (channels 703/4/5/6/8/10/15/50/51/52/53/76/79/98/99) and HDTV Tier (channels 770/71/72/73/74). I have all those stations except the premiums (HBO, ST, Starz, Cinemax), including the ones they list in HDTV Tier (HDNets, ESPNs, iNHD). In any event, iNHD is on right now with "Olympic Treasures" and works fine. I don't get why sometimes it's a black screen, even when the PG lists a program, and sometimes it works fine.


Anyone else have this problem? I don't like that it shows a basketball game I'd like to watch and all I get is a black screen.


----------



## jtscherne

The inHD basketball games are in conjunction with NBA TV. Adelphia didn't (and presumably Time Warner doesn't) have a contract with NBA TV and therefore must blackout all NBA games on inHD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrettMichael* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In any event, iNHD is on right now with "Olympic Treasures" and works fine. I don't get why sometimes it's a black screen, even when the PG lists a program, and sometimes it works fine.
> 
> 
> Anyone else have this problem? I don't like that it shows a basketball game I'd like to watch and all I get is a black screen.



InHD is an "all or nothing" channel; you either get it 24/7 or you don't. You might have a problem with low levels or ingress on that QAM. If there's a splitter upstream of the box or Tivo, try bypassing it to get 3db more signal to that outlet.


----------



## BrettMichael




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The inHD basketball games are in conjunction with NBA TV. Adelphia didn't (and presumably Time Warner doesn't) have a contract with NBA TV and therefore must blackout all NBA games on inHD.



Aha! I thought it might be something like that, because now that I think about it it's almost always NBA basketball that this happens with. I think that's what it must be. Although I'm still surprised the PG shows the basketball game that's scheduled if they aren't able to show it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> InHD is an "all or nothing" channel; you either get it 24/7 or you don't. You might have a problem with low levels or ingress on that QAM. If there's a splitter upstream of the box or Tivo, try bypassing it to get 3db more signal to that outlet.



It's cable, and it comes directly into the house from the pole outside to the 8300HD. I know because I watched the installer run the cable. So, no splitters, at least not on this box. Thanks though; I think what jtscherne said explains it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The inHD basketball games are in conjunction with NBA TV. Adelphia didn't (and presumably Time Warner doesn't) have a contract with NBA TV and therefore must blackout all NBA games on inHD.



I think your close but not quite there. TW does have NBA TV, it's on channel 168 and you need to purchase their digital plus package to receive this. So it would appear to me that they black out the game because they want you to watch it on digital 168. And of course that still is not HD. So it's probably in their contract with NBA TV that they can't show the INHD version. Which sucks if your a basketball fan IMHO.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think your close but not quite there. TW does have NBA TV, it's on channel 168 and you need to purchase their digital plus package to receive this. So it would appear to me that they black out the game because they want you to watch it on digital 168. And of course that still is not HD. So it's probably in their contract with NBA TV that they can't show the INHD version. Which sucks if your a basketball fan IMHO.



Weird, they didn't blackout the games here in Cincinnati when I had TWC. Is it possible the game was it a Cavs game or do they black out all the games?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Weird, they didn't blackout the games here in Cincinnati when I had TWC. Is it possible the game was it a Cavs game or do they black out all the games?



Again I'm not into basketball, but I suppose if the Cavs were playing on FSO there could have been a black out rule.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrettMichael* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Aha! I thought it might be something like that, because now that I think about it it's almost always NBA basketball that this happens with. I think that's what it must be. Although I'm still surprised the PG shows the basketball game that's scheduled if they aren't able to show it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's cable, and it comes directly into the house from the pole outside to the 8300HD. I know because I watched the installer run the cable. So, no splitters, at least not on this box. Thanks though; I think what jtscherne said explains it.



That's probably right. I'm not a sports fan so I don't keep track of blackout rules. Whenever I see a black screen my immediate instinct is to jump out of the chair and troubleshoot!


----------



## Ognir

Went to Channel 3 to get my Saturday fix of Law and Order and found an old Matlock on .


Anyone know why Law and Order is being aired at

3 and 4 am ?


----------



## Inundated

OK, answering all the open questions:


* TWC Cleveland (ex-Adelphia) does show FSN Ohio's HD games, including the Cavs and the Columbus Blue Jackets, on channel 798. It's called "HD Bonus", and has been that way since Adelphia started it.


I don't know what'll happen if STO's HD Indians games, and FSN Ohio's HD telecasts, overlap.


531 is a channel on the "legacy" TWC (Akron/Canton) system. It doesn't exist on the former Adelphia system. The legacy system carries all its HD content in the 5xx range, and the former Adelphia side uses the 7xx numbering.


* InHD/774 plays the same role that InHD2/775 did before. InHD2 was frequently pre-empted for HD simulcasts of sports programming on other networks. That was one reason it even existed.


When InHD2 died, they moved this activity to the main InHD channel.


TWC does carry NBA TV, but I have no idea if they "turn on" InHD if you do subscribe to the Digital Plus tier that has NBA TV. I would guess that there's no provision to link the Digital Plus subscription to the InHD carriage of the NBA TV game in HD.


Oddly enough, they don't shut out Versus (ex-OLN) coverage of the NHL in HD on InHD. I get it even though I don't subscribe to Digital Plus.


----------



## BrettMichael




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Weird, they didn't blackout the games here in Cincinnati when I had TWC. Is it possible the game was it a Cavs game or do they black out all the games?



It was Pistons at Suns, so no blackout rule that I know of would apply. Reading all the replies, I'm thinking it's because I don't have Digital Plus (or I guess I don't; I pay $75 a month with no premiums so I'm surprised I don't). It's weird that when you call them they don't even seem to know all the programming tiers they offer. I basically wanted everything but premiums (HBO, ST, Max, Starz) and I guess I didn't get it all anyway.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BrettMichael* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was Pistons at Suns, so no blackout rule that I know of would apply. Reading all the replies, I'm thinking it's because I don't have Digital Plus (or I guess I don't; I pay $75 a month with no premiums so I'm surprised I don't).



Once again, if you don't have NBA TV (in the 1xx digital channels), you don't have Digital Plus.


But I'm only assuming this is the case - they may still blackout the InHD games even if you did get the channel. They shouldn't, but Adelphia blacked it out as a rule because Adelphia didn't carry NBA TV at all on any tier.


The only thing you can do if this is important to you is call up and turn on Digital Plus, then see if they clear the game on InHD...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only thing you can do if this is important to you is call up and turn on Digital Plus, then see if they clear the game on InHD...



I strongly doubt that will happen. It sucks but that's probably the set up they got with the NBA.


----------



## godshammgod

im new to OTA HDTV and need some help


i just set everything up and only get 3 channels (abc, fox, univision) using my hauppauge hvr-950's antenna that it came with. is this just a case of the antenna not being very good? im probably less than 10 miles from all the major networks so i should receive them.


here's the info i get from antennaweb.org:


DTV Antenna Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live

Date Compass Orientation Miles From Frequency

Assignment

* yellow - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 233° 9.9 15

* yellow - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 235° 9.7 28

* yellow - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 232° 8.9 34

* yellow - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 230° 10.4 31

* yellow - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 231° 8.6 30

* green - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 230° 8.3 2

* red - uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 189° 29.0 39

* red - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 193° 27.2 50

* red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 232° 8.4 10

* red - uhf WVPX-DT 59 ION AKRON OH TBD 188° 28.3 59

* blue - uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 229° 12.4 26



can anyone recmmend me a cheap uhf/vhf indoor antenna that will allow me to receive all the digital channels listed on titantv? im mainly lookin to get cbs for the ncaa tournament


thanks


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> can anyone recmmend me a cheap uhf/vhf indoor antenna that will allow me to receive all the digital channels listed on titantv? im mainly lookin to get cbs for the ncaa tournament
> 
> 
> thanks



At 10 miles, most decent indoor antennas should get you most of those stations. Judging from the headings in your list, it sounds like you are somewhere northeast of Parma. Do you have a clear line of sight in that direction? It would really help if you had a window in that direction that you could place the antenna at. I use a Philips indoor antenna to pull in a couple of Youngstown stations from North Canton - a little over 40 miles, I think. It does have a built-in amplifier. If you do get an antenna with an amplifier, try it with the amplifier off first (there is typically a switch that will turn the amplifier on or off). You are so close that the amplifier may hinder your reception.


The bad news is that you may have more difficulty with the two VHFs - WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT (which is CBS). These two signals are lower power and notoriously difficult to receive.


The good news is that you may have a shot at WKBN-DT in Y-town (27.1 digital, rf channel 41) if you have a good line of sight towards Y-town. WKBN-DT has a very strong signal and operates on UHF. If you have trouble with WOIO-DT, swing the antenna around and dial up UHF 41 on the tuner.


----------



## ajstan99

I'm approximately the same distance away and this antenna works for me. Typically can get all the following channels without having to move the antenna: 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 19-2, 43-1, 43-2, 61-1.

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV1...&s=electronics


----------



## godshammgod

thanks for the response


yea im northeast of parma. i dont have any windows in my room facin that direction...the 2 windows in my room face north and west


is that antenna available at radio shack? some of the reviews are bad but i'll trust you guys. TheBlackKnight which model philips are you usin to receive WKBN-DT?


ive heard that a regular uhf/vhf radioshack antenna works just as good as all these expensive "hdtv" antennas bein marketed now. ill spend a couple extra bucks if need be but if a radioshack antenna works the same as somethin more expensive its not worth it. i want to receive all the digital channels listed under titantv (my zip is 44120)


----------



## desmoface

Hey gang, for some reason I've lost the following hd channels on my sony:

WOIO 111.3

WUAB 118.1

NBC 118.3

ABC 111.10


Fox8 (83.2) still works.


I use the tv's built in tuner..anyone else notice this? Thanks in advance.


Steve


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Went to Channel 3 to get my Saturday fix of Law and Order and found an old Matlock on .
> 
> 
> Anyone know why Law and Order is being aired at
> 
> 3 and 4 am ?



Call WKYC and ask the management why they think that they would get more viewers for Matlock than the true NBC program feed. WEWS also runs some Matlock during primetime.


Saturday nights is the worst night for network program ratings, so many affilliates tend to dump the network on that evening's prime-time. This is a big pet peeve of mine.


I guess if the local station thinks that the network programming stinks for that evening, they pull it and get to sell every commercial break (i.e. they don't get as much $$$ from the network ads that they do by pushing this stale crap that belongs on channel 99 & not a major market network affilliate).


This is why they don't want you to watch out-of-market stations. Too bad WFMJ and WYTV's digital signals dont reach as far as WKBN's or many of us would get to see what the network was actually showing.


Another dirty little secret about network pre-emptions - if a program was in HD onthe network, the 2 AM delayed broadcast will be in SD since the local station has no way to record HD for later rebroadcast.


----------



## kramerboy

Anyone else having issues with WJW 8.1 OTA???? It normally is rock solid for me. I never lost the signal before. But today it is just not there. WJW analog comes in CRYSTAL clear, but not the digital. All my other Cleveland OTA stations are coming in just fine.


----------



## icicle22

Okay. I am in the massillon area and I can only get Massillon Cable. The service is not bad and the price is right. However, I am in dire need of getting more HD. I really want my STO in HD again (previously I had TWC but had to move) and I'd love to get Fox SPorts Ohio in HD. So what is the scoop? Is the picture quality really that bad? I understand that Direct TV has smaller bandwidth on many HD programs.....but how bad is it really?


Also, can someone who has Direct TV HD package tell me what I will actually get if I sign up? CBS out of Cleveland? STO in HD? Really? Fox Sports Ohio in HD? What else? Unfortunately Direct TV is so huge and services so many areas that I cannot get consistent reliable info from the sales reps or online. I do know that in August of last year they did not offer CBS. It appears that is worked out now...right?


Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.


Peace!


----------



## terryfoster

I'm pretty sure these two links are accurate:
Locals for Zip 
Prosports for Zip 


Right now your RSNs will be sometimes available on a single channel in the 90s. When D* new satellites go up and become available by sometime late this year, the RSNs will have their own channel and should be available all the time.


My parents live in the Akron area and get the channels listed on those two links and haven't complained to me about any missing channels.


As far as PQ goes, I think it looks good. D* does provide 1920x1080i channels in 1440x1080i or 1280x1080i and the box outputs those channels at the proper format so you won't have compatibility issue, but this does effectively lower the quality of the image. The local channels are in MPEG4 so they use less bandwidth than the MPEG2 counterpart. This additional compression could result in lower quality. I struggle to see the difference on my 720p HDTV compared to the PQ I was getting from TWC.


I recommend that you find a friend or a store that can show you what D* looks like on their equipment and see if it looks good to you.


----------



## paule123

icicle22, this link may be of interest to you re STO and DirecTV's relationship:
http://www.sportstimeohio.com/directv411.php


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> is that antenna available at radio shack? some of the reviews are bad but i'll trust you guys. TheBlackKnight which model philips are you usin to receive WKBN-DT?



godshammgod-

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what model the antenna is. It is actually marked "Philips Magnavox". It was given to me so I don't know where it was purchased or for how much. I would think that it is not too different from any other indoor amplified antenna on the market. It has the telescoping rabbit ears for VHF and the loop (actually more of a dish) for UHF.


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> icicle22, this link may be of interest to you re STO and DirecTV's relationship:
> http://www.sportstimeohio.com/directv411.php



Thanks for the link but still, there is no direct answers as to wether STO is available in HD. I was hooping someone, anyone who has it, can verify that the Indians are broadcast in HD on D*.


After reading the thread on the poor quality of HD over Satelite in general I am leaning away from it again.


Peace!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After reading the thread on the poor quality of HD over Satellite in general I am leaning away from it again.



Don't just take people's word for it on the internet. There are too many fanboys and nit-picky people on the internet that may exaggerate problems/differences in service. After learning as many pros and cons about a product/service as you can, you need to experience them yourself with a in store demo or at a friend/relative's house and see if the pros outweigh the cons for your personal needs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link but still, there is no direct answers as to wether STO is available in HD. I was hooping someone, anyone who has it, can verify that the Indians are broadcast in HD on D*.
> 
> 
> After reading the thread on the poor quality of HD over Satelite in general I am leaning away from it again.
> 
> 
> Peace!



What you need to do is call D* and simply ask them. If it's available in your area, they will let you know. D* did not agree to cover all the areas that cable covers so that would be your only source.


As far as quality of HD on D*, I hear the main problem was with locals and I think that has been resolved.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desmoface* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey gang, for some reason I've lost the following hd channels on my sony:
> 
> WOIO 111.3
> 
> WUAB 118.1
> 
> NBC 118.3
> 
> ABC 111.10
> 
> 
> Fox8 (83.2) still works.
> 
> 
> I use the tv's built in tuner..anyone else notice this? Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Steve



Steve, yes....


TWC was in the neighborhood yesterday, although I don't have cable, I had to go over & re-program my neighbors set (Westinghouse), the locals are on 83, 84, & 85 subs now, don't remember exactly but they are on sub numbers 10 & below... strange though another WUAB HD (with info) autoprogrammed itself on 270, Audio but no video & The Tube repeats itself on 500... The Music is on 80 & 93's subs. Before the Auto Program 3 was on 84-53 & 5 was on 84-51


Strange so many scrambled digitals programmed them self in on the auto program... it will take hours to delete them only for TWC to come back & change them....










& you PAY good money for this aggravation?









_Edit: I found my list I scratched out...


83-2 (Fox 8)

84-3 (43)

84-10 ABC 5)

85-1 (CBS 19)

85-3 (NBC 3)

Music Choice 80-21 to 40 & 93-nn


The Techs at TWC also took the liberties to cut her incoming Dish cables installed by the previous owner rendering them useless.... smart business sense I guess!







.


_


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At 10 miles, most decent indoor antennas should get you most of those stations. Judging from the headings in your list, it sounds like you are somewhere northeast of Parma. Do you have a clear line of sight in that direction? It would really help if you had a window in that direction that you could place the antenna at. I use a Philips indoor antenna to pull in a couple of Youngstown stations from North Canton - a little over 40 miles, I think. It does have a built-in amplifier. If you do get an antenna with an amplifier, try it with the amplifier off first (there is typically a switch that will turn the amplifier on or off). You are so close that the amplifier may hinder your reception.
> 
> 
> .




Is that the Phillips MANT310 410 or 510?


I'm currently using the 410, the amp for the UHF is actually weaker than the VHF, I can't really pick up any of the DT's with it regularly & snow on analog with the exception of 8 & 19 Analog which are close to near perfect.... too bad I'll lose 19 completely after the change over.


I'm 28 miles from the farm, I believe.


----------



## burgher

Iccicle 22-

FYI-D* does have STO in HD. Of course this is available only when you get outfitted with their new 5 lnb setup with either an H20 or HR20 rec'vr. As far as the quality, I receive digital locals both ways (OTA and D*supplied) and cannot truly tell the difference. My display may be a bit dated (Sony 51" Rear proj. CRT) but I'm pleased with the results.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Iccicle 22-
> 
> FYI-D* does have STO in HD. Of course this is available only when you get outfitted with their new 5 lnb setup with either an H20 or HR20 rec'vr. As far as the quality, I receive digital locals both ways (OTA and D*supplied) and cannot truly tell the difference. My display may be a bit dated (Sony 51" Rear proj. CRT) but I'm pleased with the results.



That still depends on where you live. There are certain areas that cable broadcast STO in that D* does not. In the immediate Cleveland area everyone gets it. As you move farther away it depends.......


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that the Phillips MANT310 410 or 510?
> 
> 
> I'm currently using the 410, the amp for the UHF is actually weaker than the VHF, I can't really pick up any of the DT's with it regularly & snow on analog with the exception of 8 & 19 Analog which are close to near perfect.... too bad I'll lose 19 completely after the change over.
> 
> 
> I'm 28 miles from the farm, I believe.



Why do you say you'll lose 19 after the change over? Is it because you presume they will revert to 19 for their digital signal?


19 wants to say on rf 10 after the changover (despite the interference they will coutinue to get from CFPL-TV which, I presume, will still be on the air in analog long after the U.S. ends the transition).


If your answer is "yes" to the above questions, you must be the only one who actually has no problems with the current WOIO-DT signal (outside of us 'tenna farmers







)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why do you say you'll lose 19 after the change over? Is it because you presume they will revert to 19 for their digital signal?
> 
> 
> 19 wants to say on rf 10 after the changover (despite the interference they will coutinue to get from CFPL-TV which, I presume, will still be on the air in analog long after the U.S. ends the transition).
> 
> 
> If your answer is "yes" to the above questions, you must be the only one who actually has no problems with the current WOIO-DT signal (outside of us 'tenna farmers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



No exactly the opposite, I'm in the RF hole in Lake County, my strongest signals are currently Analog 8 & 19. Now with the Amplified MANT410 I cannot hold any digital signal even on the 2nd floor, my roof is sufficent except for Digital 10, & all the analogs which will eventually go by the wayside.


I have not purchased a DTV yet, but borrowed one for testing purposes.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What you need to do is call D* and simply ask them. If it's available in your area, they will let you know. D* did not agree to cover all the areas that cable covers so that would be your only source.
> 
> 
> As far as quality of HD on D*, I hear the main problem was with locals and I think that has been resolved.



D*... does that mean dish?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D*... does that mean dish?



D*=Direct TV E*=Dish.


----------



## Michael P 2341

E* is used for Dish Network because the parent company that owns Dish Network is "Echostar", hence "E*". The D* is used for DirecTv. The shorthand originated at the DBS discussion boards. There used to be others, "A*" Alphastar and "P*" Primestar.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> E* is used for Dish Network because the parent company that owns Dish Network is "Echostar", hence "E*". The D* is used for DirecTv. The shorthand originated at the DBS discussion boards. There used to be others, "A*" Alphastar and "P*" Primestar.



The things you learn here! Also if I recall correctly there was a time either here or at the TiVo Community Forum where something was going on and we were not suppose to mention Direct TV. Now why that was or is, I have no idea but I could have sworn I remember reading something like that. It may have not been true.


----------



## rluyster

This may be a little off topic for this group...but I'm curious if anyone in the Akron/Canton area who was able to receive WTOV-DT (ch 57) in Steubenville is now suddenly unable to do so? I have always been able to receive them well but suddenly lost them about a week ago. There is a low level signal there but too low to lock. I've been exchanging emails with their engineer and he is puzzled also as he knows of nothing they have done at the station that would cause this. My reception from other areas seems to be the same so I don't think I'm having any kind of equipment malfunction. The poor reception is the same on two different receivers I'm using. Anyone else notice this or have any ideas as to why a station I've received well for the last two years would suddenly become unreceivable?


----------



## godshammgod

so can anyone recommend me a specific uhf/vhf antenna..... i.e brand and model #?


still cant get any channels with the included antenna...i get:


5-1 WEWS-DT

8-1 WJWDT

17-1 WDLI DIGITAL CH17-1

17-2 Church Channel

17-3 JCTV

17-4 Enlace

17-5 Smile of a Child

43-1 WUAB-DT

43-2 WUAB-DT The Tube

61-1 WQHS DT


all the 17 channels theres no signal...cant even see them listed on titantv. for abc, fox, wuab, the tube, and univision i only get around 60% signal strength.


i need an antenna that will get me WOIODT (19.1) CBS and WKBNDT1 (27.1) CBS. gonna stop by radioshack today so id like to know what i should look for. will any uhf/vhf amplified indoor antenna do the trick? dont wanna spend 20-30 bucks and find out it doesnt work.


my zip is 44120.....im less than 10 miles from all the major networks


----------



## HD MM

I have a pretty funny story involving a D* salesman that came to my door last night. (Boy, did this guy come to the wrong door!







)


6pm doorbell rings. It went something like this:


D*- Hello sir, I am with D* and I was wondering which current provider you have?

Me- Well, I previously had D*, however I cancelled them and went with E*.

D*- Why?

Me- More HD channels (among other things).

D*- I think E* deceived you because D* is the leader in HD!

Me- Now, that my friend is deceiving!

D*- How many HD channels do you get?

Me- Somewhere around 31.

D*- Wow, I didn't even know there was 31 HD channels out there.

Me- Trust me. I am very informed about this subject and know what I'm talking about. (I could tell on his smug little face he didn't believe me).

D*- Well, D* is expected to add over 100+ HD channels by next month.

Me- Wow, next month huh? Another reason I left D* is because they have been talking about adding additional HD channels for years with no significant results. I don't believe your far fetched claim at all.

D*- Well do you have a DVR? How many?

Me- Yes. 1 that controls 2 TV's.

D*- Well that DVR isn't HD and it is impossible that it controls 2 TV's. You need a box to access the DVR at every TV.

Me- Well, believe it or not it is true. And my DVR is actually the Vip622 and it is an HD DVR. (Again, the smug little bastard thought I was lying to him and had no idea of the existence or technology of this wonderful machine).

D*- How much is your monthly bill?

Me- I answered him.

D*- Sounds like you have a good deal sir. Have a nice day.

Me- Curse words under my breath.










With all biases aside, I just thought it would be helpful for us consumers to be aware of the hugely misinformed sales representatives out there who have absolutely no knowledge of their product or their competitors and will try to make false claims just to make a sale. As a former sales guy, I find this appalling. Buyer beware!


----------



## ClevelandRob

hehehehe... Why don't I ever get that lucky?! I would have had fun with that! You should have told him your DVR makes cappacinos too!


Hell, I've got the ViP622 hooked up to TWO HDTVs so I can access all my recordings in two places! Not to bash D* but it is sad that this kid blatantly told you that they are going to have over 100 HD channels by next month when their aren't even that many HD Channels available! He even said he didn't think there were 30 HD channels "out there". Does he think that 70 new HD networks will be available in the next 4 weeks?!?!?! Funny. There are just as many uneducated E* and cable company CSRs though.


The real question is "how long did it take the kid to cancel his D* for E*?"!


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link but still, there is no direct answers as to wether STO is available in HD. I was hooping someone, anyone who has it, can verify that the Indians are broadcast in HD on D*.



D* definitely offers the Indians in HD on STO. It's broadcast on Ch. 95 & you'll need an MPEG 4 receiver and the big 5 feedhorn dish to receive it, but it is there. Presuming STO is available on D* in Massilon, you'll get it in HD. There was some controversy last year as D* offered STO to a lot smaller area than the Indians wanted & there were some issues on getting it activated early in the season. I had to call D* to get everything set right. I presume Massilon is w/i the area that will get STO, but that's a presumption on my part.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After reading the thread on the poor quality of HD over Satelite in general I am leaning away from it again.



It's not that bad. I have an HR20 & HD Tivo on the same TV & can't tell a dramatic difference at all between the OTA locals & the MPEG signal from D* (which may in part be a condemnation of NBC & CBS multicasting locally perhaps). I will say the HD "cable" channels likely aren't as crisp now as they once were & that's due to bandwidth constraints on the MPEG2 channels. At some point w/i the next year that should get changed, but I'm not sure I'd buy into D* presuming that today instead of waiting until it actually happens.


The other thing to consider is what kind of TV you have. If it's 720P, you likely won't notice any signal degradation. 1080i or 1080P and you're local cable MAY be better on the "cable" channels like HD Discovery, ESPN HD etc. at least for now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D* definitely offers the Indians in HD on STO. It's broadcast on Ch. 95 & you'll need an MPEG 4 receiver and the big 5 feedhorn dish to receive it, but it is there. Presuming STO is available on D* in Massilon, you'll get it in HD. There was some controversy last year as D* offered STO to a lot smaller area than the Indians wanted & there were some issues on getting it activated early in the season. I had to call D* to get everything set right. I presume Massilon is w/i the area that will get STO, but that's a presumption on my part.




From Ohio Meida Watch:


Wednesday, March 21, 2007


More STO, And DirecTV



In our rush to put up the item on the new SportsTime Ohio show to be fronted by local sports personality Bruce Drennan, we didn't outline some of the other changes at the network which adopts "full-time" status on April 1.


Among them: three new shows.


Former WKYC and FSN Ohio staffer Andy Baskin's "Totally Tribe" will be on the STO schedule. As reported earlier, Baskin is producing the show from his own new production shingle, Over The Falls Productions.


Veteran local sports voice Al Pawlowski (Cleveland State Vikings radio play-by-play) joins up with former Indians player Brian Anderson for "The Tribe Report", and the network also announced a new show called "The High School Sports Insider".


Going beyond STO's press release, Akron Beacon Journal sportswriter George M. Thomas shares what seems to be a policy change for SportsTime Ohio in an article in Wednesday's newspaper.


STO chief Jim Liberatore tells Thomas that the network will start airing some minor league baseball broadcasts. They'll apparently start at the top, with the Indians' top minor league club, the AAA Buffalo Bisons, along with coverage of the AAA Columbus Clippers (an affiliate of the Washington Nationals these days, it would appear).


Future telecasts of the two immediately local minor league clubs - the double-A Akron Aeros and the single-A Lake County Captains - are also possible.


We call it a "policy change" because Liberatore downplayed the possibility of these kinds of games airing on the network when STO first started, saying the network would certainly cover the Indians' farm teams, but wasn't likely to air full games.


But you can only play repeats of "classic games", earlier live games and other shows so often for a 24/7 schedule, we guess.


Oh, and about DirecTV.


OMW stumbled upon this massive update (for 2007) of SportsTime Ohio's "411" about the satellite provider.


And the "update" is actually "no change". Again this year, the network will not be carried on DirecTV in outer areas of the Indians' TV territory. Quoting:


DirecTV has informed SportsTime Ohio that they will once again limit our coverage area. Nothing has changed since the 2006 baseball season, which had many Cleveland Indians baseball fans living without STO and our Cleveland Indians telecasts. DirecTV will only offer STO in the Cleveland, Columbus and Youngstown areas.


This means DirecTV viewers outside of Northeast Ohio or the Columbus area, but still considered in part of the Indians' territory by Major League Baseball, will again not get the team's games on STO. As in 2006, Dish Network will air STO to the entire Indians region, as will the cable systems that have signed up for the channel.


On the "411" page, STO says it's had "continuous discussions" about the stance over the past year...but apparently, with no fruit. It also helpfully gives links to Dish Network, and participating STO cable affiliates in the affected areas.


Given this voluminous page, it appears unlikely that DirecTV subscribers outside of Northeast Ohio will get STO again in 2007...nor will customers who sign up for out-of-market regional sports network packages to get companion sports programming.


And like last year, DirecTV customers in those affected areas will also be blacked out of Indians games on Major League Baseball's "Extra Innings" package...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so can anyone recommend me a specific uhf/vhf antenna..... i.e brand and model #?
> 
> 
> still cant get any channels with the included antenna...i get:
> 
> 
> 5-1 WEWS-DT
> 
> 8-1 WJWDT
> 
> 17-1 WDLI DIGITAL CH17-1
> 
> 17-2 Church Channel
> 
> 17-3 JCTV
> 
> 17-4 Enlace
> 
> 17-5 Smile of a Child
> 
> 43-1 WUAB-DT
> 
> 43-2 WUAB-DT The Tube
> 
> 61-1 WQHS DT
> 
> 
> all the 17 channels theres no signal...cant even see them listed on titantv. for abc, fox, wuab, the tube, and univision i only get around 60% signal strength.
> 
> 
> i need an antenna that will get me WOIODT (19.1) CBS and WKBNDT1 (27.1) CBS. gonna stop by radioshack today so id like to know what i should look for. will any uhf/vhf amplified indoor antenna do the trick? dont wanna spend 20-30 bucks and find out it doesnt work.
> 
> 
> my zip is 44120.....im less than 10 miles from all the major networks



I have the Phillips MANT-510-Rabbit ears with a square UHF Amplified antenna in the middle. I am in Southwest Canton and get these channels fairly regualrly:


17 analog, 17-1 Through 17-5 WDLI Canton


23 WVPX Akron (digital not transmitting)


27-1 and 2 WKBN, WYFX Youngstown (27 analog is iffy)


45 analog, 45-1 through 45.3 WNEO Alliance


49 Analog 49-1 through 49.3 WEAO Akron


67 analog, 67.1 WOAC Canton


Low Power 52, Channels 19, 43, 55 and 61 have snowy pictures depending on where the antenna is angled


I sometimes get 21 analog and 21-1 and 2 depending on time of day and antenna placement..


I get "signals" but no Picture on 33 Youngstown and 44 Cambridge


Almost never anything on VHF except for occassional black screens on 2, 7, 8 and 9..


In spite of everything, I am getting what I should probably get considering I am 60 Miles south of Cleveland..The antenna works good for what it is..You should do much better being closer to the stations.. I got this antenna for around 30 bucks at Wal-Mart.good luck..


----------



## godshammgod

ugh! this is frustrating......


so i stopped by radioshack since its up the road and looked at their antennas. they only had radioshack brand and there was one that was amplified uhf/vhf but it was over 30 bucks. i decided to buy the cheapest uhf/vhf antenna for 10.99. it is model 15-1874 and says it should receive all local channels in metropolitan areas. find out it works the same as my hauppauge's included antenna so i just wasted 11 bucks. actually...it works worse. i got 10 channels last night with that while doin an auto-scan i only receive 5 channels (5-1, 8-1, 43-1, 43-2, 61-1).


the signal strength is still only 50-70% with the radioshack antenna and theres heavy pixelation sometimes. that could just be my CPU not able to handle it...content is scaled down on hd but it looks good. maybe i have too much electronic stuff around the tuner/antenna? could be interferin with the frequencies who knows.


does anyone in here receive cbs woio-dt????


i dont understand this....im so close to the towers. does it hurt if you live in a high density area with lots of buildings around? i would think livin in the city would be better for this kinda stuff


think im gonna have to go get the philips MANT510, do they sell those at compusa? i dont live near a wal-mart and dont support that place anyhow.


looks like i wont be able to watch the tarheels in hd tonight


----------



## Tim Lones

A lot of the Phillips product is also at Circuit City..The MANT 510 is currently 39.99..A little high but it is amplified and it should work better for you. Cheaper Non amplified is not going to work as well..You should be able to take the one you got back..


From looking at CompUSA's website, it appears they do not sell TV antennas


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ugh! this is frustrating......
> 
> 
> does anyone in here receive cbs woio-dt????



I do. But I subscribe to cable.


----------



## paule123

You may have noticed new ATT "reinventing television" billboards around town... This just in -


Upcoming U-verse rollout dates, from Uverseusers.com:


Los Angeles May 1

Detroit May 21

San Diego June 4
*Cleveland June 18*

Oklahoma City Aug 6

Sacramento Aug 20

St. Louis Nov 5

Austin Nov 19

Columbus Dec 24


----------



## Inundated

I picked up that MANT510 the other night to replace an aging RS amplified antenna that A) isn't being sold anymore and B) had one of the VHF elements accidentally broken off halfway down.


It works pretty good - at least equivalent to the ol' RS one, which was one of their better ones (1880, I think).


I get everything I got before, and found a way to contort the antenna to get WOIO-DT on pretty much a full lock. I still haven't figured the position for WKYC-DT, and am not expecting to get that regularly due to issues already posted here a million times.


BTW, I don't believe Massillon Cable picks up the SportsTime Ohio HD feed. I know they didn't last year...just the analog feed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may have noticed new ATT "reinventing television" billboards around town... This just in -
> 
> 
> Upcoming U-verse rollout dates, from Uverseusers.com:
> 
> 
> Los Angeles May 1
> 
> Detroit May 21
> 
> San Diego June 4
> *Cleveland June 18*
> 
> Oklahoma City Aug 6
> 
> Sacramento Aug 20
> 
> St. Louis Nov 5
> 
> Austin Nov 19
> 
> Columbus Dec 24



And I might just be interested in that but I live in Windstream territory, so no AT&T for me. I still don't understand this territory stuff, I thought they had deregulated this for competition.


From the TiVo boards it seems like the TiVo S3 works well with FIOS but they do not support it.


----------



## Inundated

I'm not surprised about that date. The AT&T boxes have been popping up all over for the past few months...we even have one at the end of my street now.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And I might just be interested in that but I live in Windstream territory, so no AT&T for me. I still don't understand this territory stuff, I thought they had deregulated this for competition.
> 
> 
> From the TiVo boards it seems like the TiVo S3 works well with FIOS but they do not support it.



The "competition" in the telco industry was aimed at the old Bell System. Windstream et. al. areas were never in the "Bell System" to begin with, so the competition rules for those areas are drasticaly different. For example I, as a resident in an old Bell System exchange, has the option of choosing a different *local* telco (not just a different long distance carrier). The "new" at&t still has to maintain the lines, but my bill comes from Sage Telecom. It's sort of like the gas & electric alt. providers, except I don't get a bill from at&t (unlike the gas & electric companies who bill for the alt. supplier).


I would not put it past Windsteream to someday get into FIOS, after all they are reselling Dish Network just like at&t does today. A telco reselling satellite is a stepping stone into FIOS. They can test the video services waters by reselling satellite before making a major comittment (read: investment) into FIOS.


----------



## JoeySR

My 8300 for the past 2 - 3 weeks has been unable to get VOD. I get an error code CL-16. The tech came out today and told me that every 8300 from Ashtabula to Cleveland has this issue. He said be patient and they will get it fixed soon. Does anyone else with a 8300 having this same problem?


Also at 3:30 pm today they are starting to transition cable modems to the RR system he said.


Joey Sr


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 8300 for the past 2 - 3 weeks has been unable to get VOD. I get an error code CL-16. The tech came out today and told me that every 8300 from Ashtabula to Cleveland has this issue. He said be patient and they will get it fixed soon. Does anyone else with a 8300 having this same problem?
> 
> 
> Also at 3:30 pm today they are starting to transition cable modems to the RR system he said.
> 
> 
> Joey Sr




Earlier this afternoon we had an outage for a bit (old adelphia). I think they would need to let us know that they are converting to RR, unless for a while we continue to use our adelphia.net emails.


I wouldn't know about the VOD since I have a TiVo S3 and don't get that anyway.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Earlier this afternoon we had an outage for a bit (old adelphia). I think they would need to let us know that they are converting to RR, unless for a while we continue to use our adelphia.net emails.



When I talked to a TWC (old Adelphia in Cleveland suburbs) tech last week, he told me that the CL-16 Video on Demand error would probably recur for the next two weeks while they are "making changes." He also said that subscribers with adelphia.net email addresses would be converting, probably to Roadrunner.com email addresses, beginning at that time. We will get emails concerning the change. The current adelphia.net email addresses will remain active, he said, for a year after the changeover.


Another tech asked me if I owned my own cable modem. When I said yes, she told me that they would probably be replacing it with their own cable modem. However, since she gave me some inaccurate information about other things, I don't know if this is correct or not.


----------



## godshammgod

i got WOIO-HD tuned with the radioshack by movin it a bit.....its not perfect but good for now, memphis/osu game looks great. go tigers!


----------



## hookbill

Thanks for the info pbarach. I've wondered about the modem thing as well. I guess we will find out soon enough.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... He also said that subscribers with adelphia.net email addresses would be converting, probably to Roadrunner.com email addresses, beginning at that time. We will get emails concerning the change. The current adelphia.net email addresses will remain active, he said, for a year after the changeover.



Actually, the [email protected] addresses have been aliased to the adelphia.net addresses since September. Try sending yourself an e-mail @roadrunner.com and it will come through your normal account seamlessly.


----------



## pbarach

Can someone explain what AT&T U-verse is? From their obtuse website, it _looks like_ it's a DSL internet service that also carries TV, including HDTV.


Has anyone heard about how much compression they have on HD channels/ Picture quality? Reliability? Whether the TV signal affects the speed of the internet connection?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone explain what AT&T U-verse is? From their obtuse website, it _looks like_ it's a DSL internet service that also carries TV, including HDTV.
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard about how much compression they have on HD channels/ Picture quality? Reliability? Whether the TV signal affects the speed of the internet connection?



I'm probably going to get a few details wrong, but basically it's a VDSL connection over existing copper wire to your house running at about 25Mbps. 6Mbps is dedicated to internet, the rest for video. The "VRAD" beige boxes that have been popping up all over neighborhoods are fed with fiber so that the copper wire loops to your home are much shorter than they would normally be going back to the central office. There is also talk they could upgrade to VDSL2 technology over the same wire and/or do "pair bonding" - adding another pair of wire to your house - to get more bandwidth (like 50Mbps+)

www.uverseusers.com is the most active forum for U-Verse discussion right now. Users claim ATT's MPEG4 compression looks the same or better than their cable service. So far I've only seen TWC in San Antonio being compared, and I haven't seen a critical PQ review of the likes of the typical AVSForum HD enthusiast.


Currently you can only watch 1 HD stream at a time. ATT says by the end of 2007 watching more HD streams simultaneously will be possible. You can currently watch multiple SD streams. They launched with an impressive lineup of HD channels. I beleive they are pricing it less than cable competitors in the same market.


Their DVR sounds pretty cool, but alas, it is running a spanking new Microsoft IPTV operating system and there have been a lot of teething pains with it. You can record something like 4 programs at once, and I think they have multi-room DVR working, but not 100% sure on that.


When they launched in San Antonio, I beleive they offered 3 months of service for like $15 a month, no contracts or obligation. If they do that here, I might give it a try. I sure wouldn't want to pay full price to be a Microsoft IPTV beta tester.


----------



## Inundated

That outage Saturday was indeed the switch to Roadrunner for us ex-Adelphia types.


I found out the hard way when I couldn't use my DNS redirect, and went to fix it...and an entirely new IP address showed up for my cable modem. It's in the 24.xxx.xxx.xxx range, where my old one was a 68.xxx.xxx.xxx one.


I used "LogMeIn", which can access my other PC from the laptop, and the resolution of the new IP address is at rr.com instead of adelphia.net.


I have no idea about the E-Mail. I have an adelphia.net address somewhere, but never, ever use it!


But during the switchover when it went away - for about 20 minutes or so - I called TWC's tech support. They were very helpful, but didn't have the simple answer I needed - "we're changing you over to Roadrunner, and it'll be back up soon". Odd that something that important was not communicated to them...


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone explain what AT&T U-verse is? From their obtuse website, it _looks like_ it's a DSL internet service that also carries TV, including HDTV.
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard about how much compression they have on HD channels/ Picture quality? Reliability? Whether the TV signal affects the speed of the internet connection?



Another thing to further bog my PC down... My dialup is slow enough, yet phone lines can also multitask TV signals?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> D*=Direct TV E*=Dish.





> Quote:
> E* is used for Dish Network because the parent company that owns Dish Network is "Echostar", hence "E*". The D* is used for DirecTv. The shorthand originated at the DBS discussion boards. There used to be others, "A*" Alphastar and "P*" Primestar.



TY all, I was thinking it was a company, proper name or something censored by the legal gods.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm probably going to get a few details wrong, but basically it's a VDSL connection over existing copper wire to your house running at about 25Mbps. 6Mbps is dedicated to internet, the rest for video.



Thanks for this detailed information. I live not far from you. While I've been quite happy with the Adelphia internet service, their HDTV cable leaves a lot to be desired, with not many HD channels available, poor PQ on some of the existing HD channels, terrible tech support, those miserable SA 8300HD boxes. I only have one HDTV set, so the ability to watch multiple HD streams isn't important to me. If the price is right, I may switch.


I don't know about the reliability of that Microsoft operating system you mentioned, but I wonder how it could possibly be any _worse_ than the 8300HD that TWC rents to us (when they actually have any to rent).


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone explain what AT&T U-verse is? From their obtuse website, it _looks like_ it's a DSL internet service that also carries TV, including HDTV.
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard about how much compression they have on HD channels/ Picture quality? Reliability? Whether the TV signal affects the speed of the internet connection?



It's AT&T's answer to Verizon's FIOS (fiber to the house) system. Whether or not they are using the legacy twisted-pair for the last block or two is really dependant upon the quality of whats in the ground or overhead. I know that's what they'd like to do!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That outage Saturday was indeed the switch to Roadrunner for us ex-Adelphia types.
> 
> 
> I found out the hard way when I couldn't use my DNS redirect, and went to fix it...and an entirely new IP address showed up for my cable modem. It's in the 24.xxx.xxx.xxx range, where my old one was a 68.xxx.xxx.xxx one.
> 
> 
> I used "LogMeIn", which can access my other PC from the laptop, and the resolution of the new IP address is at rr.com instead of adelphia.net.
> 
> 
> I have no idea about the E-Mail. I have an adelphia.net address somewhere, but never, ever use it!
> 
> 
> But during the switchover when it went away - for about 20 minutes or so - I called TWC's tech support. They were very helpful, but didn't have the simple answer I needed - "we're changing you over to Roadrunner, and it'll be back up soon". Odd that something that important was not communicated to them...




Yep, I see the new IP address as well. I sent my wife an email [email protected] and she received it. Usually we use gmail so I'll try to send an Adelphia one. It still should work.


You would think that they would have sent the email out to us by now notifying us of the switch. I'll bet we see something either Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## hookbill

I know we're getting of track here with this talk about the RoadRunner, but so many of us are old Adelphia customers. Here's something else I discovered: While you can get mail to [email protected] , you cannot use their regular mailing address which I believe is [email protected] . It doesn't work. Or maybe we will all have to type out the roadrunner name.


Inundated pointed out that his IP showed @rr.com.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know we're getting of track here with this talk about the RoadRunner, but so many of us are old Adelphia customers. Here's something else I discovered: While you can get mail to [email protected] , you cannot use their regular mailing address which I believe is [email protected] . It doesn't work. Or maybe we will all have to type out the roadrunner name.
> 
> 
> Inundated pointed out that his IP showed @rr.com.



I thought it was _[email protected]_...


Not 100% sure though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought it was _[email protected]_...
> 
> 
> Not 100% sure though.




I'll try that one too. Thanks.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know we're getting of track here with this talk about the RoadRunner, but so many of us are old Adelphia customers. Here's something else I discovered: While you can get mail to [email protected] , you cannot use their regular mailing address which I believe is [email protected] . It doesn't work. Or maybe we will all have to type out the roadrunner name.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought it was _[email protected]_.



It would make sense for T/W to use a unique domain name for the customers who are moving over from Adelphia. Otherwise, they would have to deal with all of the synonym names that would conflict. I'm sure that many, and perhaps most, of us are using "username"@adelphia.net where "username" is the same as a name that is already in use in the Roadrunner domain. So they either have to use a different email domain for us, or they have to force us all to select new email names (which would probably piss off a lot of people).


In any event, I've tested mine on the "roadrunner.com" domain, and it works correctly. I wish they could just maintain the Adelphia name, but I guess that won't work because not all of Adelphia came over to T/W - some went to Comcast.


----------



## terryfoster

With the recent STO discussion I thought I should pass this discussion thread on. It appears that STO has been added to the Sports Pack on D* and may be available to more people than it was before. I don't know if the Sports Pack is required to pick up STO in areas it wasn't availble before, but with people picking it up in SE Virginia it certainly doesn't sound like a spot beam to me.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=83231


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It would make sense for T/W to use a unique domain name for the customers who are moving over from Adelphia. Otherwise, they would have to deal with all of the synonym names that would conflict. I'm sure that many, and perhaps most, of us are using "username"@adelphia.net where "username" is the same as a name that is already in use in the Roadrunner domain. So they either have to use a different email domain for us, or they have to force us all to select new email names (which would probably piss off a lot of people).
> 
> 
> In any event, I've tested mine on the "roadrunner.com" domain, and it works correctly. I wish they could just maintain the Adelphia name, but I guess that won't work because not all of Adelphia came over to T/W - some went to Comcast.




I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I tried using the [email protected] and that doesn't work. And your logic as to why that wouldn't work makes perfect sense. So it looks like for us it will be [email protected] . I can live with that.


----------



## Tom in OH

Ours have always been @neo.rr.com but there were serveral combos that worked(or used to). I don't know if this applies to anyone but last Monday, my email wouldn't download (kept asking for password).


I had to access the emails acct management from TW's website http://www.help.rr.com and 'reenable' the sub accts. before they would work again. They all got turned off for some reason.


Tom



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought it was _[email protected]_...
> 
> 
> Not 100% sure though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ours have always been @neo.rr.com but there were serveral combos that worked(or used to). I don't know if this applies to anyone but last Monday, my email wouldn't download (kept asking for password).
> 
> 
> I had to access the emails acct management from TW's website http://www.help.rr.com and 'reenable' the sub accts. before they would work again. They all got turned off for some reason.
> 
> 
> Tom



When I go to the page you listed it has a link for former Adelphia customers and basically says are emal address is the same excep it is @roadrunner.com, so I guess that pretty much solves that. It had a link on it to changer your password but it brought me back to the page I started.


So I guess we really don't have to do anything ourselves. I got a letter in the mail saying something about those who rented their modems from Adelphia and their would be more info on that later.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When I go to the page you listed it has a link for former Adelphia customers and basically says are emal address is the same excep it is @roadrunner.com, so I guess that pretty much solves that. It had a link on it to changer your password but it brought me back to the page I started.



I don't see that page, though I did see a Webmail login that sets you up for former Adelphia E-Mail.


I can't get it to work, though, as I never use my adelphia.net address and can't even remotely remember the password.


----------



## hookbill

If you go here you should get to the main page for roadrunner. If you click the login tab it will come up with a "forgot password" and then ask a few questions and email your password to you. I saw a link that said "forgot password?" so I suppose that's how it will work.


Then you can dump all the Adelphia stuff. If you want you can access the RR security they provide for free (I use Zone Alarm for everything) but to each their own. Also they offer Road Runner Medic which can check your internet connection and even allow you to change your ip address if you feel so inclined.


I haven't checked out everything, it's similar to Adelphia's page but much nicer looking.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Then you can dump all the Adelphia stuff.



Any info about what settings to use for roadrunner.com mail servers and news servers?


----------



## AfricanGrey

I just signed up with TWC to get their HD services. I have the SA 8300 HD and my wife and I are already struggling over who is "King of the Remote". Does anyone know of a good source for either a duplicate AT8850 or a suitable replacement?

Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AfricanGrey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just signed up with TWC to get their HD services. I have the SA 8300 HD and my wife and I are already struggling over who is "King of the Remote". Does anyone know of a good source for either a duplicate AT8850 or a suitable replacement?
> 
> Thanks.




As the flock leader in my house, I am king of the remote. If your mate has a problem with that and she desires to be flock leader, handle it like parrots and have a fight to the death. Whomever wins, is the new flock leader and therefore gets the remote.


Seriously, I'm assume your talking about a duplicate remote. I highly recommend the Harmony 680 or just about any of the other Harmony remotes. They will allow you to program everything, easily by setting it up on the internet.


I also recommend you drag the SA 8300 back to TW and get a TiVo S3. More expensive but the SA 8300 is nothing more then a glorified VCR. I had more problems with it then I'm going to recount here, suffice to say I went through 3 of them in 2 years time and was willing to shell out a grand for the S3. You can get them now for about 600 bucks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any info about what settings to use for roadrunner.com mail servers and news servers?



All that info is available at the link I posted. Search around a bit.


I changed my mail server to name.roadrunner.com on my Outlook Express but it is still delivering my Adelphia.net email.


----------



## pbarach

Today I received an empty envelope from TWC labeled, "Important Information inside." When I called them, first I was told that I was being transferred to a new number, and then I got a tape that said they were too busy to transfer the call right now; then they hung up.


So: For those of you who got The Envelope with something inside, please let us Empty Envelope recipients in on the important secret!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also recommend you drag the SA 8300 back to TW and get a TiVo S3. More expensive but the SA 8300 is nothing more then a glorified VCR. I had more problems with it then I'm going to recount here, suffice to say I went through 3 of them in 2 years time and was willing to shell out a grand for the S3. You can get them now for about 600 bucks.



In the interest of fairness Hookbill, I believe you retired your 8300 prior to the latest firmware release. Give him a chance to try it out with current f/w and come to a conclusion afterwards.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Today I received an empty envelope from TWC labeled, "Important Information inside." When I called them, first I was told that I was being transferred to a new number, and then I got a tape that said they were too busy to transfer the call right now; then they hung up.
> 
> 
> So: For those of you who got The Envelope with something inside, please let us Empty Envelope recipients in on the important secret!



ROFLOL. I got it yesterday and there was a letter basically saying that TW will now be sending your bill instead of Adelphia. Most important thing I saw was that your billing date may change.


Also mentioned was the switch to Road Runner. The letter said that if you owned your modem there would be no problem. Those that rented their modems would be addressed "if necessary". I'm paraphrasing so don't hold me exactly to those words.


BTW, my wife receives the bill on line and said it's been coming from TW for the past few months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the interest of fairness Hookbill, I believe you retired your 8300 prior to the latest firmware release. Give him a chance to try it out with current f/w and come to a conclusion afterwards.



I got the upgrade to that for a few days back when they had the problem with FOX (Adelphia) and went back to the previous version.. It still was missing recordings with that update. I doubt if addressed that issue to this day.


I had the SA 8300 through many updates and not once did any of them resolve the issue of missing recordings and partial recordings. I don't feel I'm giving anyone bad advice by telling them that the S3 is a far better DVR then the SA 8300 no matter what it's running.


I will say this: Not everyone experienced the same problems I did. However some did, matter of fact one member in our area took my advice and is overjoyed that he got rid of the SA 8300 for the S3.


That's about as fair as I can get in regards to that machine.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ROFLOL. I got it yesterday and there was a letter basically saying that TW will now be sending your bill instead of Adelphia. Most important thing I saw was that your billing date may change.
> 
> 
> Also mentioned was the switch to Road Runner. The letter said that if you owned your modem there would be no problem. Those that rented their modems would be addressed "if necessary". I'm paraphrasing so don't hold me exactly to those words.
> 
> 
> BTW, my wife receives the bill on line and said it's been coming from TW for the past few months.



There was a second letter shortly after this one. It said that your account number will change, so be sure to notify any "bill-payer" services of the new number when you get your first bill.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got the upgrade to that for a few days back when they had the problem with FOX (Adelphia) and went back to the previous version.. It still was missing recordings with that update. I doubt if addressed that issue to this day.
> 
> 
> I had the SA 8300 through many updates and not once did any of them resolve the issue of missing recordings and partial recordings. I don't feel I'm giving anyone bad advice by telling them that the S3 is a far better DVR then the SA 8300 no matter what it's running.
> 
> 
> I will say this: Not everyone experienced the same problems I did. However some did, matter of fact one member in our area took my advice and is overjoyed that he got rid of the SA 8300 for the S3.
> 
> 
> That's about as fair as I can get in regards to that machine.



I have never had the kind of trouble with mine that you have had. However, even if it worked perfectly, the 8300 is a poor substitute for a Tivo. I went from a DirecTV HD-Tivo to the 8300 and was amazed at the lack of features and poor user friendliness. Anyone who has had a Tivo in the past and now has the 8300 can attest to what a piece of junk it is.


----------



## Andrew K

Has anyone heard any new news about when WBNX will go OTA? And what about WVIZ going full power? Last I heard, WBNX was scheduled for April, and WVIZ was sometime in the spring/summer. Is the FCC going to finally get tough on WBNX and get them up and running soon? I'm tired of waiting







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard any new news about when WBNX will go OTA? And what about WVIZ going full power? Last I heard, WBNX was scheduled for April, and WVIZ was sometime in the spring/summer. Is the FCC going to finally get tough on WBNX and get them up and running soon? I'm tired of waiting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Originally WBNX was suppose to be available via cable in HD in November. That never happened. I haven't seen anything on WVIZ or any changes on WBNX. My suggestion: Don't hold your breath on either.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard any new news about when WBNX will go OTA? And what about WVIZ going full power? Last I heard, WBNX was scheduled for April, and WVIZ was sometime in the spring/summer. Is the FCC going to finally get tough on WBNX and get them up and running soon? I'm tired of waiting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



WVIZ has been telling us "next summer" since I joined AVS, about 5 years ago.


----------



## debennett2

What is with WKBN in Youngstown? I got a qam tuner and can't seem to find it on Comcast cable at all but CAN find 21 and 33 in HD. Not even a SD version of 27 however....not to mention FOX/62. Is this an oversight by Comcast? Is Comcast just encrypting both of these? Anyone know? Thanks.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard any new news about when WBNX will go OTA? And what about WVIZ going full power? Last I heard, WBNX was scheduled for April, and WVIZ was sometime in the spring/summer. Is the FCC going to finally get tough on WBNX and get them up and running soon? I'm tired of waiting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




Rumor is that Thomson (Thales) was in Parma on Tuesday installing a Paragon digital transmitter for WBNX... watch for testing.


----------



## Goebels1951

I live in North Olmsted. I own a Mitsubishi TV model wd-52525.

I want to receive the local HD channels. I have purchased an indoor antenna from Radio Shack.

My questions are, how do I install the indoor antenna to receive local HD channels? What are the steps involved?

Also, how will I know I am receiving the local HD channels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goebels1951* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Olmsted. I own a Mitsubishi TV model wd-52525.
> 
> I want to receive the local HD channels. I have purchased an indoor antenna from Radio Shack.
> 
> My questions are, how do I install the indoor antenna to receive local HD channels? What are the steps involved?
> 
> Also, how will I know I am receiving the local HD channels?




A quick search on google shows that your television has an built in HD tuner. You should be all set to go, just hook up the antenna to the proper connection in the back. Follow the manual instructions which probably will run a set up to search for channels. You'll be able to see what channels are HD very easily for example FOX channel 8 will be 8.1 over the air on your television.


The hardest part for you may be setting up your indoor antenna to receive properly. There is help on the web at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx .


Also upon reading some more about your set you will probably need to have it professionally calibrated so you can get the most out of your HDTV.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rumor is that Thomson (Thales) was in Parma on Tuesday installing a Paragon digital transmitter for WBNX... watch for testing.



That's certainly good news. Now WVPX also needs to get on the ball here. I'm surprised that the FCC hasn't required them to be up and running yet, even if they just have a STA. I've seen most Ion affiliates multicast several channels, so I'm sure that they'll have something to watch.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goebels1951* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Olmsted. I own a Mitsubishi TV model wd-52525.
> 
> I want to receive the local HD channels. I have purchased an indoor antenna from Radio Shack.
> 
> My questions are, how do I install the indoor antenna to receive local HD channels? What are the steps involved?
> 
> Also, how will I know I am receiving the local HD channels?



Do you have aluminum siding? If so the only way an indoor antenna will work is to place it by a window that faces the transmitters. I live 1 mile from the transmitters (the tower lights illuminate my neighborhood) I got lousy results with an indoor antenna until I aimed the antenna out a window.


----------



## hookbill

I've got a grey screen on ESPN2 for the Cubs/Reds games via TW on both my HD box and TiVo S3. Anybody else having problems?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got a grey screen on ESPN2 for the Cubs/Reds games via TW on both my HD box and TiVo S3. Anybody else having problems?



ESPN2HD is fine via D*


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got a grey screen on ESPN2 for the Cubs/Reds games via TW on both my HD box and TiVo S3. Anybody else having problems?



TWC could be incorrectly blacking you out since you're not in the Reds local market.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TWC could be incorrectly blacking you out since you're not in the Reds local market.



I talked to someone who works in head end at TW and she said it was blacked out. I told her then how come it's being shown on ESPN2 analog and she said don't know, she checked and the whole area was blacked out.


But I'm sure your right, some idiot at TW doesn't understand that Cincinnati is not Cleveland.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ESPN2HD is fine via D*



Thanks, I figured as much. Real stupid.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Newbie (to HDTV programming) here, and I need some help please.

Is there a list somewhere of all the TW channels that are offered free via QAM? Also any listlings of the programs and what time they're on, which one's are in HD, etc..?

zip=44721


Thanks in advance for anyone kind enough.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Anybody else blacked out of yesterday's Cavs vs. Celtics game? It was blacked out on E* ch 425 FSN Ohio for me here in Parma. I called E*, after a long wait they told me that another FSN network (one not carried on E* - that FSN Digital cable network) bought the rights to the game and that the game was balcked out for a 100 mile radius of the Q.


I think someone made a big mistake. There is no excuse for this game tohave been blacked out. After all every home game, let alone road game, has been available somewhere on the local dial up till now.


If you did see the game, please list the provider (i.e cable or satellite co.) and your distance from the Q.


Thanks!


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Newbie (to HDTV programming) here, and I need some help please.
> 
> Is there a list somewhere of all the TW channels that are offered free via QAM? Also any listlings of the programs and what time they're on, which one's are in HD, etc..?
> 
> zip=44721
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for anyone kind enough.



If you go to http://www.timewarnercable.com and enter your zip code, you end up at a webpage where you can click to get a PDF file showing their cable lineups and prices. The digital cable channels you get depend on which package you buy. Without a converter box or CableCard, you can only get through channel 99. To get the HD channels via cable, you pay extra for the HD tier and you have to pay a monthly fee for an HD converter box. If you also pay for a premium channel (which requires either a cable converter box or a CableCard) you do get the premium channel's corresponding HD channel (e.g., HBO-HD) at no additional cost.


To view program listings and see what's being broadcast in HD, without a cable box you are stuck with the slowly scrolling listings built-in to the TV, unless your TV set has the excellent TV Guide feature. With a cable box, there's an online guide built-in.


Online, I know of 3 different websites that have good listings that you customize according to your cable lineup:
http://www.titantv.com 
http://www.meevee.com 
http://www.tvguide.com .


They all work well (meevee.com doesn't work with Firefox, for me, tho).


BEWARE: Some of the HD channels you pay for don't actually broadcast in HD. For example, the ESPN and ESPN-2 channels are frequently not in widescreen (there are vertical pillars on each side of the picture). Much of what appears on the HD version of the local Cleveland channels is the same as the regular cable version (i.e., 4:3 picture). Even worse, TNT-HD is always widescreen, but much of its program material is actually NOT widescreen, but stretched horizontally (i.e., "sports-bar mode").


As a result, on my TWC (former Adelphia customer) the only HD channels that are _always_ showing HD material are InHD, HDNet, HDMovies, and Discovery-HD, plus the HD version of a premium channel, if I pay for one.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody else blacked out of yesterday's Cavs vs. Celtics game? It was blacked out on E* ch 425 FSN Ohio for me here in Parma. I called E*, after a long wait they told me that another FSN network (one not carried on E* - that FSN Digital cable network) bought the rights to the game and that the game was balcked out for a 100 mile radius of the Q.
> 
> 
> I think someone made a big mistake. There is no excuse for this game tohave been blacked out. After all every home game, let alone road game, has been available somewhere on the local dial up till now.
> 
> 
> If you did see the game, please list the provider (i.e cable or satellite co.) and your distance from the Q.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I watched it at my relatives house on just TWC analog. Worked fine. She lives in Cuy. Falls.


----------



## hookbill

I don't get it. What is wrong with these cable/sat companies that they pull the switch at the wrong time. And if you try to convince them they are wrong, forget it!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't get it. What is wrong with these cable/sat companies that they pull the switch at the wrong time. And if you try to convince them they are wrong, forget it!



The satellite program providers can selectively black out areas by controlling the authorization status of the receivers. The 'guy with the switch' isn't always where you think he is.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Newbie (to HDTV programming) here, and I need some help please.
> 
> Is there a list somewhere of all the TW channels that are offered free via QAM? Also any listlings of the programs and what time they're on, which one's are in HD, etc..?
> 
> zip=44721
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for anyone kind enough.



The results will be different in different T/W systems, and 44721 is quite far from me, so you may get different channels than I do. But on my system the clear QAMs include all the locals (both SD and HD), Discovery HD, TNT HD, and the HD "Bonus channel" that T/W uses for special features. There may be one or two others (like the pay per view previews and the weather subchannels, etc.)


I use TitanTV.com as a guide, or the CWEPG utility that has been developed for MyHD on this board.


----------



## kosar1985

I am switching from D* to TWC on Friday and I wanted to know how the quality of their picture is. I am a little bit nervous going from directv to cable. D* has been frustrating me lately, so I decided to switch to cable. Two things I do like is that there is no commitment on the cable, and I finally can get Howard on Demand! If anyone is in my area, please let me know how their picture quality is.


----------



## Tom in OH

It'll be interesting to hear your impressions of HD provided by TWC. Your memory of D*'s picture will be fresh and I'm anxious to hear if there's much if any diff. Directv(in my view) should've made more effort to keep E & W networks in HD. This has caused a gigantic rift that hasn't settled yet(even though they're providing Cleveland HD). Choice will always be king.


Keep us posted.


Thx, Tom



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am switching from D* to TWC on Friday and I wanted to know how the quality of their picture is. I am a little bit nervous going from directv to cable. D* has been frustrating me lately, so I decided to switch to cable. Two things I do like is that there is no commitment on the cable, and I finally can get Howard on Demand! If anyone is in my area, please let me know how their picture quality is.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am switching from D* to TWC on Friday and I wanted to know how the quality of their picture is. I am a little bit nervous going from directv to cable. D* has been frustrating me lately, so I decided to switch to cable. Two things I do like is that there is no commitment on the cable, and I finally can get Howard on Demand! If anyone is in my area, please let me know how their picture quality is.




Kind of like Tom my memory of how good the digital picture of D* was over TW has been clouded, but mostly because of the fact that I have HD and when I had D* I didn't. I can tell you that TW looks good on digital channels, fantastic in HD.


Now analog is another story. Many things come into play there. I feel that if you get the SA 8300 you will not be happy with the quality of analog channels while a TiVo S3 brings them in much, much better. However I have just a TW HD box upstairs in the bedroom and they don't look too bad on that box on that television.


Good luck, it took me a bit to get over D* but now I'm pretty much a happy camper with TW.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am switching from D* to TWC on Friday and I wanted to know how the quality of their picture is. I am a little bit nervous going from directv to cable. D* has been frustrating me lately, so I decided to switch to cable. Two things I do like is that there is no commitment on the cable, and I finally can get Howard on Demand! If anyone is in my area, please let me know how their picture quality is.



I think the P/Q on TWC is quite good. The HD services are awesome as Hookbill said. And the quality is MUCH better that D* during a heavy rainstorm.


----------



## pbarach

TWC (northeast Ohio) offers no-extra-charge "on demand" viewing for subscribers who have cable boxes, as well as pay-per-use on-demand movies and sporting events. Many people have had trouble, they tell me, with their on demand system in the last few months because they are still "changing over" from Adelphia. Looking through the on-demand listings, the screen freezes and you eventually get a CL-16 error telling you to contact your cable operator at a fake 555 phone number.


They will be happy to arrange a needless service call where they will do nothing more than switch out your cable box for another one that will have the same errors. They may also tell you to come in and change your cable box. Neither solution will fix the problem, which they have admitted to me is in their system. No "fix" date has been set.


Unfortunately, TWC didn't admit that the problem was not in my cable box until after I had to visit two of their locations yesterday, at their request, to get a new 8300HD box that still gives the same CL-16 error message.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, TWC didn't admit that the problem was not in my cable box until after I had to visit two of their locations yesterday, at their request, to get a new 8300HD box that still gives the same CL-16 error message.




Excuse me while I get on the pedestal.










I know people seem to like On Demand but it's an absolute mystery why you need On Demand when you have a DVR. If you want to watch something have your DVR record it. Even when I had the SA 8300 I never used it, and the times I did fool around with it I found it to be a pia. Long waits on the menu changes, etc.


Now the SA 8300 as it stands IMHO is an unreliable POS which is why you might want On Demand because Lord only knows if it will actually record for you.


Which is why I recommend the TiVo S3. You don't get On Demand with the TiVo S3 but you do get quality, reliable recordings. Better analog recordings as you can choose the quality of your recordings. And it's THX Certified for HD. You can get one at either the TiVo Forum or at Costco and you can get it for about 600 bucks. I prefer Costco because of their lifetime warranty.


Hey, I don't work for TiVo but I just feel it's that much better. Really. If you want the best out of HD and DVR it's the way to go. Of course if your a new TW customer you probably will be tempted to take their DVR deal but you get what you pay for!


Stepping off of pedestal now.


----------



## Tom in OH

Good to hear the S3 is working well. This gives D* lots of incentive to keep their dvrs up to snuff. When I first heard someone describe 'on demand', I said it sounded better than a dvr. If 'on demand' can offer all episodes, whenever there wouldn't be any need to record (but I'd miss setting up my Season Pass. ^_^ )


Geez Hook, it sounds like even if we cut all those trees down, we'd never get u over to D*...


cheers, Tom



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excuse me while I get on the pedestal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know people seem to like On Demand but it's an absolute mystery why you need On Demand when you have a DVR. If you want to watch something have your DVR record it. Even when I had the SA 8300 I never used it, and the times I did fool around with it I found it to be a pia. Long waits on the menu changes, etc.
> 
> Hey, I don't work for TiVo but I just feel it's that much better. Really. If you want the best out of HD and DVR it's the way to go. Of course if your a new TW customer you probably will be tempted to take their DVR deal but you get what you pay for!
> 
> 
> Stepping off of pedestal now.


----------



## hookbill

Don't forget Tom....Comcast boxes will be receiving the TiVo software this year, HD capable. It won't have all the bells and whistles of the S3 but it will be much better then what they have now.


That will put pressure on D* as well.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the P/Q on TWC is quite good. The HD services are awesome as Hookbill said. And the quality is MUCH better that D* during a heavy rainstorm.



Last night when it was really windy it recorded Driving Force and Deadliest Catch, but I could not watch them because they were all tiley. After that I am convinced that I will like TWC. Now, is the picture about the same as D* for the SD channels? I remember how bad cable used to be, but I would hope after 8 years it has gotten better. Do I need to request the better box, or is it standard for HD DVR service?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night when it was really windy it recorded Driving Force and Deadliest Catch, but I could not watch them because they were all tiley. After that I am convinced that I will like TWC. Now, is the picture about the same as D* for the SD channels? I remember how bad cable used to be, but I would hope after 8 years it has gotten better. Do I need to request the better box, or is it standard for HD DVR service?



PQ for SD digital is compatable. However you have to understand that "digital cable" is not "all digital" Matter of fact the majority of cable stations you most likely would watch are in analog. After channel 100 they are digital.


I'm not trying to confuse you but I should mention that local channels, except for channel 7 are digital, and you can get them in analog as well. Plus locals that are available in HD have excellent pq.


Still TW offers ESPN, ESPN2, Discovery HD, TNT HD and INHD plus whatever premiums you order. If you don't want a DVR then get the standard HD box. IMHO it delivers better pq for analog then does the DVR.


Again I mention if you want a quality DVR purchase the TiVo S3. You won't get On Demand but you will get the best DVR for cable out there.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do I need to request the better box, or is it standard for HD DVR service?



Make sure you get the SA8300HD. If they bring out an SA8000HD, send them back to get the 8300. The 8000 is an obsolete, slow, buggy POS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make sure you get the SA8300HD. If they bring out an SA8000HD, send them back to get the 8300. The 8000 is an obsolete, slow, buggy POS.



I don't think they give out the 8000 anymore. But either way they are both pos IMHO.


Get the TiVo S3.







You'll never accept crap again.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excuse me while I get on the pedestal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know people seem to like On Demand but it's an absolute mystery why you need On Demand when you have a DVR. If you want to watch something have your DVR record it. Even when I had the SA 8300 I never used it, and the times I did fool around with it I found it to be a pia. Long waits on the menu changes, etc.
> 
> 
> Now the SA 8300 as it stands IMHO is an unreliable POS which is why you might want On Demand because Lord only knows if it will actually record for you.
> 
> 
> Which is why I recommend the TiVo S3. You don't get On Demand with the TiVo S3 but you do get quality, reliable recordings. Better analog recordings as you can choose the quality of your recordings. And it's THX Certified for HD. You can get one at either the TiVo Forum or at Costco and you can get it for about 600 bucks. I prefer Costco because of their lifetime warranty.
> 
> 
> Hey, I don't work for TiVo but I just feel it's that much better. Really. If you want the best out of HD and DVR it's the way to go. Of course if your a new TW customer you probably will be tempted to take their DVR deal but you get what you pay for!
> 
> 
> Stepping off of pedestal now.



Hmmm... All I can say is your experience is different from mine. I don't doubt the best Tivo is better than the 8300HD, but mine has worked perfectly for over a year. Recordings are always on time and reliable and I can barely tell the difference in quality from recorded HD vs. live. I've also added a 400gig external drive with no problems.


----------



## jtscherne

I didn't check back too far, so I'm sorry if this is already known...


WEWS is Dolby Digital 5.1 tonight....


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmm... All I can say is your experience is different from mine. I don't doubt the best Tivo is better than the 8300HD, but mine has worked perfectly for over a year. Recordings are always on time and reliable and I can barely tell the difference in quality from recorded HD vs. live. I've also added a 400gig external drive with no problems.



I don't use the DVR features (but online threads here on AVS testify to the problems that others have had with the 8300HD's DVR featurss.


The cable box also has a frequently noted problem with its HDMI implementation, in that it reverts to 480i whenever its turns off, or, on some machines, whenever the display input has been changed to something other than the cable box's HDMI connection (such as watching a DVD).


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't check back too far, so I'm sorry if this is already known...
> 
> 
> WEWS is Dolby Digital 5.1 tonight....



I'm getting WEWS-DT in DD 5.1 at about 9:30PM. I also noticed problems with the transmission before 9:30. It broke up a few times and video was lost for a minute or so. Signal was still strong - there must have been some equipment problem at the station. Maybe they are still figuring out the new encoder?


Well WOIO-DT, we are still waiting for you. They are now the only one of the Big 4 in the market that is not broadcasting DD 5.1 and not doing local news in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't check back too far, so I'm sorry if this is already known...
> 
> 
> WEWS is Dolby Digital 5.1 tonight....



Excellent news! Thanks.


----------



## paule123

Wide Open West has added A&E HD to the lineup on channel 218. Unfortunately they are currently showing the Sopranos in 4:3 SD










WOW also started offering On Demand service on Channel 1 a couple weeks ago. I assume that was enabled when they recently pushed the SARA 1.89.22.1 software upgrade.


----------



## brh-z2

Gforaker,


What HD did you use to extent the capacity. I'd love to have a few extra GB. I'm in the same boat as you. The 8300 has worked for me with no problems since I received it. I do agree with Hookbill that some of the features leave a lot to be desired. But for basic daily recording - I'm happy!


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gforaker,
> 
> 
> What HD did you use to extent the capacity. I'd love to have a few extra GB. I'm in the same boat as you. The 8300 has worked for me with no problems since I received it. I do agree that some of the features leave a lot to be desired. But for basic daily recording - I'm happy!



There is a quite long thread here -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559 

The thread discusses SARA software (especially in the first part) and Passport software which is used by Time Warner in Akron Canton and I think also in Cleveland. Passport software did not support an external drive until summer or so of last year.


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Recordings are always on time and reliable and I can barely tell the difference in quality from recorded HD vs. live.



HD is digital and is recorded exactly as it was originally broadcast. It should always look exactly like the "Live" broadcast unless you have a DVR/TIVO that is converting it to another format.


Analog channels need to be encoded to a digital format for storage, so they usually suffer the most. There is an obvious loss in quality here. However the HD channels should be bit for bit identical to the original HD broadcast.


Peace!


----------



## Andrew K

I've spotted WBNX-DT 30 on the air for the first time today!! The signal seems to be good, although fluctuating a bit here in Akron. I'll have to play around with my antenna, but chances are, they're probably testing right now.


----------



## paule123

Slightly OT - does anyone have experience with Wide Open West's HSI and VOIP phone service? I'm fed up with AT&T's annual DSL scam, and thinking of switching to WOW. Every year AT&T lets the $24.95/mo "promotional rate" expire without notice, and they make it extremely difficult for existing customers to renew at the promo rate again. The normal ripoff rate is $39/mo for "up to" 3Mbps, and in reality the old copper coming into my house does 2Mbps at best. Last year I spent over an hour on the phone talking to 4 or 5 different reps to renew at the reasonable rate. The required basic POTS service to go with the DSL w/voice mail and caller ID is now up to $67/mo after taxes!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've spotted WBNX-DT 30 on the air for the first time today!! The signal seems to be good, although fluctuating a bit here in Akron. I'll have to play around with my antenna, but chances are, they're probably testing right now.



Why doesn't WVIZ just raid the WBNX site and take their antenna? I'd watch WVIZ more than WBNX anyway.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slightly OT - does anyone have experience with Wide Open West's HSI and VOIP phone service? I'm fed up with AT&T's annual DSL scam, and thinking of switching to WOW. Every year AT&T lets the $24.95/mo "promotional rate" expire without notice, and they make it extremely difficult for existing customers to renew at the promo rate again. The normal ripoff rate is $39/mo for "up to" 3Mbps, and in reality the old copper coming into my house does 2Mbps at best. Last year I spent over an hour on the phone talking to 4 or 5 different reps to renew at the reasonable rate. The required basic POTS service to go with the DSL w/voice mail and caller ID is now up to $67/mo after taxes!



Paul, can I put in a pitch for Vonage? I've had them for over a year now, excellent VOIP and I believe you will get more features for the money. You can purcahse a 500 call package for 14.95 or unlimited for 24.95. I use the 500 call package, incoming calls are free, 800 numbers are free so it works great for me.

Features include call waiting, call forwarding, caller ID and if your internet goes out you can program it to ring to your cell.


Inundated also uses Vonage. If he see's this I'm sure he will give you a thumbs up too. Also they do have e911 actvated in the area. And you can probably keep your same number.


As far as WOW that I don't know about but it's been my experience that cable is better for HSI then telephone broadband.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slightly OT - does anyone have experience with Wide Open West's HSI and VOIP phone service?



Personally I would tell you to go with a different VoIP provider if people agree that WOW provides reliable HSI. Vonage, AT&T, Packet8, or Sunrocket would probably work out to be a cheaper and as reliable (if not more reliable) VoIP option than WOW.


----------



## Inundated

I am indeed a happy Vonage customer. I don't use it a LOT, but I can't remember even the last glitch I had...maybe 2 years ago!


My only concern is Vonage's on-going status re: the Verizon patent lawsuit and its financial status. As long as they hang in there, so will I.


Oh, and I haven't been able to check, but I hear WBNX-DT may finally be up!


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am indeed a happy Vonage customer. I don't use it a LOT, but I can't remember even the last glitch I had...maybe 2 years ago!
> 
> 
> My only concern is Vonage's on-going status re: the Verizon patent lawsuit and its financial status. As long as they hang in there, so will I.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I haven't been able to check, but I hear WBNX-DT may finally be up!



Yes, WBNX-DT is indeed up and running as of the moment I write this. They seem to have a highly fluctuating signal here in Akron, and I'm assuming that this is because they're testing. Sometimes the signal is very high, but other times it doesn't even pass the threshold for me to get a picture. I'm sure that this will all be worked out eventually.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, and I haven't been able to check, but I hear WBNX-DT may finally be up!



If true, that would be the best news I've heard on this forum for a while. Can't wait to see if I can watch Smallville tonight in HD. Been a long time coming. Thank you WBNX.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PQ for SD digital is compatable. However you have to understand that "digital cable" is not "all digital" Matter of fact the majority of cable stations you most likely would watch are in analog. After channel 100 they are digital.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to confuse you but I should mention that local channels, except for channel 7 are digital, and you can get them in analog as well. Plus locals that are available in HD have excellent pq....



Kosar1985: SD picture quality can vary widely depending upon the interface used and up/down conversion and the particular TV being used. I experimented with the different conversions/video resolutions available out of my 8300 and found that I got the best consistant quality when I "locked" the output of the 8300 to 720P, which is the native resolution of my Panasonic RP-LCD. Evidently the 8300 does a better job of SD up-conversion than the set. I have to say that all the SD channels (that I watch) on TWC (formerly Adelphia in Solon) are outstanding and I often enlarge them to fill the screen without severe tiling effects. Probably the worst in this regard, but not really bad, is Sci-Fi. But don't be afraid to experiment with different settings....


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Slightly OT - does anyone have experience with Wide Open West's HSI and VOIP phone service? I'm fed up with AT&T's annual DSL scam, and thinking of switching to WOW. Every year AT&T lets the $24.95/mo "promotional rate" expire without notice, and they make it extremely difficult for existing customers to renew at the promo rate again. The normal ripoff rate is $39/mo for "up to" 3Mbps, and in reality the old copper coming into my house does 2Mbps at best. Last year I spent over an hour on the phone talking to 4 or 5 different reps to renew at the reasonable rate. The required basic POTS service to go with the DSL w/voice mail and caller ID is now up to $67/mo after taxes!



I'm a Vonage "500" user as of Wednesday. Maybe it's coincidental, but I have one computer in the house that gets disconnected from the internet once or twice a day since install. I'm using my existing Linksys router and other than adding the Vonage interface nothing has changed, but too soon to tell if it's related. The calls that were made on Vonage were great.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My only concern is Vonage's on-going status re: the Verizon patent lawsuit and its financial status.



That was my concern re Vonage... I really have no use for a land line anymore. What I really need is a service that would port my existing home phone number into cyberspace and forward calls to my Verizon cell phone... Not sure if such an animal exists.


----------



## terryfoster

Well, check this option out: AT&T Softphone . This service still includes the "Locate Me" feature which can forward calls to your cellphone along with allowing you to make calls from "Cyberspace." Vonage has a softphone service, but it looks like you need to have a regular Vonage account to add the service to.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That was my concern re Vonage... I really have no use for a land line anymore. What I really need is a service that would port my existing home phone number into cyberspace and forward calls to my Verizon cell phone... Not sure if such an animal exists.



You certainly can do that with Vonage. I wasn't aware of any law suits going on, this is news to me. I'm not concerned about it as these things work themselves out or go on for eternity. Look at the TiVo/Echostar suite.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You certainly can do that with Vonage.



Yeah, but then he ends up with equipment/cost/features he doesn't need for the service he's looking for.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, but then he ends up with equipment/cost/features he doesn't need for the service he's looking for.



Maybe I don't understand. You simply have to forward your phone to your cell. I imagine your speaking about softphone, and I'm not knowledgeable about that. Is that what your referring to?


----------



## hookbill

I don't know if everyone is aware or not but MLB and In Demand came to an agreement to broadcast Extra Innings on cable. It's a 7 year deal and includes the baseball channel.


This is the free week and games are available today.







E*, as usual is dragging their behinds, still no agreement with them.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe I don't understand. You simply have to forward your phone to your cell. I imagine your speaking about softphone, and I'm not knowledgeable about that. Is that what your referring to?



Yes I am referring to the softphone I mentioned in my earlier post.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, but then he ends up with equipment/cost/features he doesn't need for the service he's looking for.



I think hookbill might've sold me on Vonage. For $4 more a month with Vonage, I can keep my physical phones in the house, and get 200 more minutes a month (not that I'd use them). The Vonage package I would get is $14.99/mo, whereas ATT SoftPhone is $10.99/mo. I also like the idea of getting away from ATT, and who knows what kind of taxes they will tack on to the bill. Vonage clearly spells out all the taxes on their website, and the total is $19.16/mo.



WOW's VOIP package works out to about $25/mo no voice mail and about $35/mo with voice mail. Can't really tell the true price though because it's bundled with the HSI and the Digital Cable.


Anyway, back to the subject of TV, anybody notice STO channel 657 on D* flaking out during the Tribe game today? The screen was blanking out every other second.


----------



## hookbill

I think it's only fair to warn you about one thing in dealing with Vonage. If you do experience a problem their customer service is horrible. However, the Vonage Forum is extremely helpful with some real knowledgeable people in it.


I personally have not had a problem but I've monitored that forum and I see people who do. They get a good deal of help when they have a problem, provided they don't come in and say "Vonage is a piece of ****."


Not trying to discourage you, just want you to have the facts upfront.


----------



## terryfoster

I don't think anybody has good customer service. You're best off calling when you actually know the cause of the problem and you know what they need to do to fix it.


----------



## Andrew K

Has anyone else been having difficulty receiving WBNX-DT over-the-air? Their signal fluctuates up and down way too much. I'm wondering why this is happening.


----------



## Inundated

Andrew, I'm not far from you and watching it with a solid signal this evening...no fluctuations. You're down in the Valley, right?


Assumig that whatever CW show is on now is in HD, WBNX isn't passing HD yet. Just 1080i upconverted.


I assume this is on their list - it's still very early in testing, and the program guide info now says "Winston Broadcasting, Event 21", etc.!


----------



## Inundated

WBNX-DT does seem to be suffering from occasional video dropouts, which is the only way I can describe it. But it doesn't appear related to the signal on this end...which seems as strong as all the other locals in the Parma farm.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Andrew, I'm not far from you and watching it with a solid signal this evening...no fluctuations. You're down in the Valley, right?
> 
> 
> Assumig that whatever CW show is on now is in HD, WBNX isn't passing HD yet. Just 1080i upconverted.
> 
> 
> I assume this is on their list - it's still very early in testing, and the program guide info now says "Winston Broadcasting, Event 21", etc.!



I'm not in the valley, but I'm not really at the top of the valley either. While I was watching a program on WBNX-DT, the signal would be in the excellent range, and then it would go down to very poor (which isn't viewable). It would keep fluctuating like this at different intervals of time no matter where I seemed to place the antenna. So, I moved my antenna into another room, and this problem has stopped for the most part but not completely. I couldn't really figure out why I would be having problems with a signal that's the most powerful one in Cleveland at 1000kw and 334m. After all, I get excellent signals from 5, 8, 43, and 61, which are all UHF at a lower power. That is why I figured that they were having testing problems. I also wanted to say that I saw some HD content for about 1/2 hour from 8-8:30 pm, but it stopped after that.


----------



## godshammgod

im receivin WBNX-DT now....its in dolby digital 5.1 too. signal seems to be fine


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've spotted WBNX-DT 30 on the air for the first time today!! The signal seems to be good, although fluctuating a bit here in Akron. I'll have to play around with my antenna, but chances are, they're probably testing right now.



I'm getting a signal in the mid 80s on my Dish 622 DVR here in Salem; however, the picture is not stable. Associated equipment: CM 4228 antenna on a 55 foot tower (my location is 1250 feet above sea level), antenna rotor, CM 7777 preamp and a 10 dB attenuator between the 7777 power supply and the 622. I use the attenuator because I'm three miles from WNEO's transmitter.


----------



## kosar1985

Well, I got screwed by TWC today. They came here today and told me they did not have any HD DVR, HD recievers, or just regular DVR. I told them to just go then. I am not to happy with TWC right now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I got screwed by TWC today. They came here today and told me they did not have any HD DVR, HD recievers, or just regular DVR. I told them to just go then. I am not to happy with TWC right now.



What kind of bs is that? Of course they have them, the idiot on the truck just didn't bring anything with them.


Call them back, tell them what happened and demand a credit for your time.


You DID tell them you wanted an HD DVR did you not? If you just called for an install then you screwed yourself.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I got screwed by TWC today. They came here today and told me they did not have any HD DVR, HD recievers, or just regular DVR. I told them to just go then. I am not to happy with TWC right now.



They "did" me earlier in the week. They told me that I needed to exchange my 8300HD box in order to correct the problems I've been having with On Demand service. They asked me to set up a service call. So I asked, "Is the service person going to do anything else here except exchange my converter?" When they said no, I told them it would be easier for me to pick one up. I then asked if they had any 8300HD boxes at the Lakeside office; the rep checked and said they did, and they would set one aside with my name on it.


....which they didn't do. Lakeside had none. So I had to go to the Cleveland Heights office, where they did have one.


When I got it home, the On Demand error was still happening, so I called TWC again. This time, they told me the problem was system-wide and they were working on it. In other words, they nearly wasted my time and a technician's with a needless home visit, and they definitely wasted 90 minutes of my time to exchange a cable box that wasn't the source of the problem.


----------



## kosar1985




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of bs is that? Of course they have them, the idiot on the truck just didn't bring anything with them.
> 
> 
> Call them back, tell them what happened and demand a credit for your time.
> 
> 
> You DID tell them you wanted an HD DVR did you not? If you just called for an install then you screwed yourself.



I definitely told them I wanted the HD DVR. At first they told me there was a waiting period, then I got placed on hold for twenty minutes. And of course the phone got disconnected. I called back and got a different person and he told me they are available and set up an appointment for today. I called and complain and all I got was a twenty dollar credit on my bill. I told the lady I had a bad feeling about cable already and this did nothing but add to it. So now I am still with D*. I like D*, but I wanted to try something different. I do not know if I will try TWC again.


----------



## dleising

Find one of the Time Warner locations and just pick up a box, I found that to be SO much easier!


----------



## Tim Lones

No signal for WBNX-DT here in Canton at all..Indoor Phillips Mant-510. Is their Transmitter more in Cleveland than Akron?..Also, WOAC-DT 67-1 seems much more stable in the last day or two.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No signal for WBNX-DT here in Canton at all..Indoor Phillips Mant-510. Is their Transmitter more in Cleveland than Akron?..Also, WOAC-DT 67-1 seems much more stable in the last day or two.



WOAC's transmitter is right down the road from me, there is usually cars at the site. I dont know what they have planned for the future...


----------



## Tom in OH

Is the CW channel 30-1? If it is I'm getting nothing - not even a blip. It's not showing up in the HD Tivo D* guide either. Maybe they haven't gone full power yet.


----------



## KennedyJ

Hello,


Could someone with Time Warner cable service please let me know what the make/model is of the current HD STB (not the DVR). I have an installation scheduled next week and want to know whether I should be prepared with component cables or HDMI/DVI.


They are also going to attempt to setup my S3 with a couple of Cable Cards. Hopefully some of the earlier setup bugs that I've read about have been resolved.


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> Could someone with Time Warner cable service please let me know what the make/model is of the current HD STB (not the DVR). I have an installation scheduled next week and want to know whether I should be prepared with component cables or HDMI/DVI.
> 
> 
> They are also going to attempt to setup my S3 with a couple of Cable Cards. Hopefully some of the earlier setup bugs that I've read about have been resolved.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I don't know how "current" it is but I have a Scientific Atlanta 3250 HD STB.

It works better then the SA 8300. It doesn't record anything but then neither did the SA 8300.
























Gawd, I hated that machine.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know how "current" it is but I have a Scientific Atlanta 3250 HD STB.
> 
> It works better then the SA 8300. It doesn't record anything but then neither did the SA 8300.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gawd, I hated that machine.



Thanks HookBill! Looks like component cables should do the trick.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the CW channel 30-1? If it is I'm getting nothing - not even a blip. It's not showing up in the HD Tivo D* guide either. Maybe they haven't gone full power yet.



I was receiving WBNX-DT last night without issue. Today it isn't showing up at all. I'd bet they are just not broadcasting right now. Perhaps they will light up the signal again this evening.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know how "current" it is but I have a Scientific Atlanta 3250 HD STB.



I concur with Hookbill; the 3250HD is the current non-DVR model. It has analog component YPbPr outputs as well as DVI.


----------



## Tom in OH

Hi,

were u manually punching in 30-1 or is it showing in your guide?


I'll check again tonight for a signal(nothing right now at 7:51pm).


It's great to hear WBNX-DT is working on going live. When they do we'll be here and we'll be watching!


And when the signal is perfect (or not) you'll be sure to hear from us... ^_^





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was receiving WBNX-DT last night without issue. Today it isn't showing up at all. I'd bet they are just not broadcasting right now. Perhaps they will light up the signal again this evening.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was receiving WBNX-DT last night without issue. Today it isn't showing up at all. I'd bet they are just not broadcasting right now. Perhaps they will light up the signal again this evening.



Yes, this is true. The first day that I saw them OTA, they had the test pattern on for a few hours, and I figured that this was just testing. I also saw that the picture contained a lot of pixelation and many drop-outs in the signal. I'm sure that they'll be on soon, and these problems will be taken care of.


I'm also wondering if they'll have a subchannel, which was discussed previously in this forum.


----------



## paule123

I was looking forward to seeing the highlights of today's snow fiasco at the Jake in HD on WKYC 11pm news -- but all the highlights were 16:9 SD -- did WKYC not broadcast this game in HD today ??


I'll also put in a plug for Wide Open West - I went online to my WOW account manager yesterday and ordered the high speed internet package. The website asked me to schedule a visit, so I set up a date for next week. I already have a cable modem, so I figured I'd call them up and just give them the MAC address and have them activate it. I called about 11:30pm last night, selected the option for internet technical support, and the phone was answered immediately by an english speaking tech that wasn't a script reading drone. I told him what I wanted to do, he said sure no problem. He punched the MAC address into their system, I watched the modem reset itself, and wham, I'm on the net. Total time on the phone about 5 minutes. No need for the truck roll next week. That's what I call service !


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ya Paule, HD from 3:30 to 8:30 or 9 or whenever they finally called off the game. Don't know why the highlights were in SD. That is strange, and so was that game... to be continued tomorrow (Sat.) at 1:00.


----------



## hookbill

Off topic (per usual)







but how in the hell they were going to play that game didn't make any sense to me. I was laughing looking out my window....PLAY BALL! How the hell do you even see the ball with huge snowflakes falling?


I know there isn't much hope for improvement so I understand why. But they caused me a great deal of stress wondering what they were going to do about my scheduled NBC shows. Hat's off to them for making the right decision in starting in progress with whatever that game show was and showing both Raines and L&O in HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ya Paule, HD from 3:30 to 8:30 or 9 or whenever they finally called off the game. Don't know why the highlights were in SD. That is strange, and so was that game... to be continued tomorrow (Sat.) at 1:00.



The live broadcast was in true HD, however anything prerecorded was in SD, either strethced or boxed.


I don't beleive any local station has the equipment to record in broadcast quality HD.

Whenever WEWS preempts ABC programs or Wheel of Fortune the delayed broadcast is always in SD. Whenever WKYC has a segment that was pretaped (such as the political discussion segment on the Sunday AM newscast) those segments are in boxed SD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the CW channel 30-1? If it is I'm getting nothing - not even a blip. It's not showing up in the HD Tivo D* guide either. Maybe they haven't gone full power yet.



Well you can't get much closer to the WBNX tower than I am. The tower lights literally refelect off the house across the street!


There was no signal yesterday. I confirmed that there was no RF on ch 30 on my "add DTV" screen after 55.1 could not be found. Thursday I was able to add WBNX and it showed up as 55.1. The picture was SD upconverted (even though the CW network feed was in HD). There were occasional glitches in the picture, despite the 125 signal (the highest the meter goes on E* equipment). Before you say the glitches were from too strong a signal, I also get 125 for several other stations here in the 'tenna farm and none of them have glitches like I've seen on WBNX.


If I'm seeing some glitches, everyone is getting them. They obviously are still getting things adjusted. The time to uncork the bubbly is when we all see true HD insted of upconverted SD. I'm surprised someone reported DD 5.1, was it just a pilot light on your DD decoder, or did you actually hear a distinct 5.1 soundtrack?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I concur with Hookbill; the 3250HD is the current non-DVR model. It has analog component YPbPr outputs as well as DVI.



In regards to my smart mouth remark of comparison to the SA 8300, I may have to take it back.


Yesterday at the last minute I decided to cancel MLBTV from the computer and order MLB EXTRA INNINGS. I have a HD set upstairs in the "guest" room (where my wife sends me to watch games while she sleeps) and I was looking forward to the Dodgers and Giants at 10:15 pm.


With beer in hand I went upstairs and turned on my TV and SA 3250HD. And I get a message: Service is not authorized for this unit. I reboot the box and get the same message. I call TW







and after a good 15 minutes on hold a very nice rep gets on the phone. She says it shows active on her end. {I'm now starting to pound that beer). We do the reboot thing and she sends the signal. A message pops up: "Loading Guide Data". YES! Followed by another message: Service is not authorized for this unit. I finish the beer and have an all day appointment on Monday. She swears activating MLB Extra Innings had nothing to do with this.


Disappointed, I went down stairs, grabbed another beer and went to mlb.com. I signed in and my password worked. I clicked the 700k stream and there it was, Dodgers and Giants thrid inning no score. I watched the remainder of the game and had a good evening, and a few more beers.










So after this long story, I just want to retract what I said about the SA 8300 not being as good as the SA3250. I guess being a POS just runs in the family.










P.S. Excellent ball game Dodgers won 2-1. It was hillarious to hear the announcers talking about how cold it was in San Fransisco after watching the Tribe earlier.


----------



## paule123

No Indians baseball today (surprise surprise). Both Saturday games have been cancelled. Looks like they're going to try a doubleheader on Sunday:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=cle


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...We do the reboot thing and she sends the signal. A message pops up: "Loading Guide Data". YES! Followed by another message: Service is not authorized for this unit. I finish the beer and have an all day appointment on Monday. She swears activating MLB Extra Innings had nothing to do with this.



Hookbill, did that box work the day before? If it's saying "not authorized" that doesn't mean that it's broken - it only means that it's missing some of the information that it needs to do it's thing. If you bypass the box and go directly to the tuner input of the TV, do you get a good signal there?


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No signal for WBNX-DT here in Canton at all..Indoor Phillips Mant-510. Is their Transmitter more in Cleveland than Akron?..Also, WOAC-DT 67-1 seems much more stable in the last day or two.



I checked for them on Thursday night after reading about their appearance in this forum. Signal strength was strong here in SW Canton at that time. They were not on the air last night when I checked nor today. They're either still just testing intermittently or something went awry right after their startup. Their transmitter site is in the Parma area like most of the other Akron-Cleveland stations, I believe.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill, did that box work the day before? If it's saying "not authorized" that doesn't mean that it's broken - it only means that it's missing some of the information that it needs to do it's thing. If you bypass the box and go directly to the tuner input of the TV, do you get a good signal there?



Yes, and as a matter of fact I was able to get the box partially working. It gives me a message saying "Special Features not available now" and I only get analog channels through the box. If I fool with it too much it goes back to unauthorized and quits completely.


I have it running through my DVD/VCR player and analog works fine. The person I worked with last night said on her side it showed active and we did all the tricks but couldn't get it to work.


Do you have an answer?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well you can't get much closer to the WBNX tower than I am. The tower lights literally refelect off the house across the street!
> 
> 
> There was no signal yesterday. I confirmed that there was no RF on ch 30 on my "add DTV" screen after 55.1 could not be found. Thursday I was able to add WBNX and it showed up as 55.1. The picture was SD upconverted (even though the CW network feed was in HD)



I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.


Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...


Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?


thx,

Tom


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.
> 
> 
> Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...
> 
> 
> Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?
> 
> 
> thx,
> 
> Tom



To clarify the difference: ch 30 is the rf frequency that WBNX-DT is addigned. 55-1 is the virtural channel for WBNX-DT. On my receiver I manually added ch 30, whch was identified in the EPG as "55.01". The virtural channel number comes from the PSIP data that is transmitted by the digital station. If the PSIP data is missing or different you may end up with a "channel not found" message even thugh the signal is there. That happened to WEWS a few weeks ago - 125 signal strength but no lock. I tried to readd rf 15 but it would not take. Evidently WEWS's digital transmitter was on but not sending any data.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.
> 
> 
> Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...
> 
> 
> Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?
> 
> 
> thx,
> 
> Tom



To clarify the difference: ch 30 is the rf frequency that WBNX-DT is assigned. 55-1 is the virtural channel for WBNX-DT. On my receiver I manually added ch 30, whch was identified in the EPG as "55.01". The virtural channel number comes from the PSIP data that is transmitted by the digital station. If the PSIP data is missing or different you may end up with a "channel not found" message even though the signal is there. That happened to WEWS a few weeks ago - 125 signal strength but no lock. I tried to readd rf 15 but it would not take. Evidently WEWS's digital transmitter was on but not sending any data.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.
> 
> 
> Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...
> 
> 
> Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?
> 
> 
> thx,
> 
> Tom



I manually tuned to 30-1 and the receiver immediately mapped it to 55-1 where the video/audio showed up along with the "WBNX-DT" call sign. I think all receivers do this as long as the station is sending the proper PSIP information.


----------



## hookbill

Cathode Kid your post encouraged me to try another rep over at TW. I got a rep by the name of Heather whom was very helpful. She agreed that a truck roll wasn't necessary and then she began a real hard look to find out what the problem may be. She suspected that it had something to do with the MLB Extra Innings purchase. After spending about 15 minutes on the phone she said she would like to call me back while she continued to work on the problem.


About 15 minutes later she called back and ask me to check the box. It still wasn't digital, just analog but no message saying "not authorized". She worked on the other end and then it jumped to channel 15. Once I saw that, I knew she had it and punched in an HD channel. It worked. Truck roll cancelled.


Thanks for giving me an idea to push this issue further. I won't have to waste the entire day sitting here waiting for a truck.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To clarify the difference: ch 30 is the rf frequency that WBNX-DT is addigned. 55-1 is the virtural channel for WBNX-DT.



After thinking about it, I should've known to check 55-1 in the first place. To receive NBC, it's 3-1(not 2-1) and Fox is 8-1(not 31-1) and so on...


Thx for the reminder.


Still nothing on either 30-1 or 55-1 at the moment.


Tom


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...About 15 minutes later she called back and ask me to check the box. It still wasn't digital, just analog but no message saying "not authorized". She worked on the other end and then it jumped to channel 15. Once I saw that, I knew she had it and punched in an HD channel. It worked. Truck roll cancelled.
> 
> 
> Thanks for giving me an idea to push this issue further. I won't have to waste the entire day sitting here waiting for a truck.



Good news, Hookbill! It's nice to know that it wasn't a hardware problem. So perseverance pays off.


----------



## Inundated

WBNX-DT hasn't been on, at least that I've seen, since that first appearance on Thursday.


And like Michael P here, I was also getting the encoding glitches on the screen. It had nothing to do with signal, as the station was lighting up just as much as the other stations in the Parma antenna farm, and didn't fluctuate for me.


Andrew, didn't you have to do some adjustment when you first started getting DT signals down there?


We'll have to see what happens when they come back up. Again, they're obviously testing at this point...


----------



## Inundated

Oh, a clarification - WEWS *can* record HD feeds...that's how A) they can even air Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD (it's not live at 7 PM ET), and B) how they can run the late night repeat of the 11 PM news in HD at 1 AM or so.


But there's a difference between recording these feeds, and being able to record stuff for news - and edit it - in HD.


Channel 5 can record the entire newscast in HD, and replay it later, but they can't record/edit news feeds in HD. The other stations in the market can't even do the full program recording.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WBNX-DT hasn't been on, at least that I've seen, since that first appearance on Thursday.
> 
> 
> And like Michael P here, I was also getting the encoding glitches on the screen. It had nothing to do with signal, as the station was lighting up just as much as the other stations in the Parma antenna farm, and didn't fluctuate for me.
> 
> 
> Andrew, didn't you have to do some adjustment when you first started getting DT signals down there?
> 
> 
> We'll have to see what happens when they come back up. Again, they're obviously testing at this point...



From what I've heard about WBNX's digital signal, I think I'll just have to play around with the antenna. I wasn't quite sure if the problem was on their end or mine, but it seems to be me. I only have an indoor antenna, so it isn't really the best, but it will be good enough for me. I noticed that moving the antenna to the other side of the room helps to minimize the severe fluctuations and receive a reliable picture, but keeping it on the original side doesn't seem to work no matter how I orient the antenna or move it slightly. I can receive all my locals good, but the problem is finding that sweet spot where I can get all of them at once. I still haven't been able to do it.


I live in an apartment complex where I can't place an antenna on the roof. I also live on the side of the building facing away from the Cleveland antennas, so that's another challenge I have to work around. I used to live on the other side of the building that was facing Cleveland, and this made an unbelievable difference in signal quality. It will take some slight adjustment, but overall I will have no problems receiving all the stations I should be able to get.


----------



## ClevelandRob

hmmm... so is it not up?? I checked Friday after reading all this hear and didn't see anything on channel 30










Was it only up Thursday for testing or am I just not getting it??


----------



## JJkizak

So far on the live OTA HD news thing I think Channel 3.1 is doing mobile in actual HD or they figured out how to get rid of the multiple images in DV widescreen. I'm not sure what 5.1 is doing but 8.1 is using DV widescreen on their mobile stuff and it has multiple images with a blurred background. At least on my setup. When they switch back to the main console everything is perfect.

JJK


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hmmm... so is it not up?? I checked Friday after reading all this hear and didn't see anything on channel 30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was it only up Thursday for testing or am I just not getting it??



Yup... It hasn't been up since Thursday. Hopefully they will get things up and running soon.


----------



## ClevelandRob

Hopefully by May 1st.... Veronica Mars in HD!







My favorite P.I.!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, a clarification - WEWS *can* record HD feeds...that's how A) they can even air Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD (it's not live at 7 PM ET), and B) how they can run the late night repeat of the 11 PM news in HD at 1 AM or so.
> 
> 
> But there's a difference between recording these feeds, and being able to record stuff for news - and edit it - in HD.
> 
> 
> Channel 5 can record the entire newscast in HD, and replay it later, but they can't record/edit news feeds in HD. The other stations in the market can't even do the full program recording.



If WEWS can record in HD why was a preemption of Wheel shown at 1 AM in SD (even though the program opened up showing that it was available in HD)?


I'm willing to bet the HD Wheel & Jeopardy is coming off an HD satellite feed that constantly repeats that day's episodes so that the programs are available to every affilliate at the time that it's scheduled to show.


I've never caught a repeat of the news latenight so I can't say weather or not it's in true HD. I did catch a late 11 PM newscast that was late due to longer network programs - those would be in HD for sure because it's live, not taped.


I have to take back my statement that no local station can tape in HD. I caught a true HD news promo spot that ch 3 has been running over the weekend. All the other commercials were in 4 X 3, while this promo was in 16 X 9 and it did not appear to be streatched. The HD recording capacity may be limited in the amount of playing time, since Tom Beres' Sunday AM segments are SD with sidebars. Either the recording time limited or they went outside their facility to produce this spot. It's the only local origination spot I have ever seen in HD.


During the live broadcast from the Jake on Friday afternoon, some cameras were SD with sidebars (the ones outside the Jake) while almost all the inside cameras were in HD. I guess they are still building up their inventory of HD cameras.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If WEWS can record in HD why was a preemption of Wheel shown at 1 AM in SD (even though the program opened up showing that it was available in HD)?
> 
> 
> I'm willing to bet the HD Wheel & Jeopardy is coming off an HD satellite feed that constantly repeats that day's episodes so that the programs are available to every affilliate at the time that it's scheduled to show.



I've been lead to believe from our local Wheel & Jeopardy affiliate that those shows are distributed at least a week in advance and must be recorded or captured.


It's entirely possible that running syndicated programming from the recorded source requires manual intervention that WEWS-DT decided was too costly to run at 1AM.


----------



## Inundated

I'm 99% sure that both Jeopardy and Wheel are not fed live in HD, and that they are fed for recording in the afternoon. If they were fed live, say, at 7 PM ET when a lot of stations carry it, a lot more would be on the bandwagon.


I've also seen "NewsChannel 5 at 11"'s 1 AM repeat - not a late-pushed live 11 PM show - in HD. I used to have my 8000HD DVR recording that show, and it was in HD the first night they did HD news...which surprised me.


I don't know why the pushed-to-later Wheel you mentioned was in SD, but I'm pretty sure WEWS can record HD.


Again, as noted, recording full HD programs off the bird (or off of your own studio) is not the same as being able to record and edit (key word here) HD video for the newscast.


I'm sure all three (OK, maybe four if you include WOIO coming "soon") local HD news operations will eventually get to the All-HD feeds both recorded and live. Probably a year or three down the road...


----------



## Inundated

WBNX-DT is still off, and I just rescanned it to be sure.


----------



## afiggatt

*Transmitter Coverage Maps for Google Earth*


I don't see that anyone has posted this information here about the sticky thread in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum with very useful coverage maps for analog and digital TV stations and translators. The kmz files have been revised and now expanded for files covering the top 20 DMAs, including Cleveland. These files combined with Google Earth are a neat tool to see what the reception strength is for each station if you zoom down to your neighborhood or your street and flip through the stations. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 if you are interested.


----------



## KennedyJ











Well we are not off to a good start this morning with my TW cable install (North Ridgeville). I have been a TW basic cable/internet subscriber for several years. Today I scheduled an upgrade to an HD Digital STB for one TV and two cablecards for the S3 Tivo. The installer shows up with ONE cable card and NOTHING else







. He said he'd be back later today with the appropriate deliverables. I'm not very optimistic. I knew there was a reason that I had stayed with D* for 9 years - Self Installs.


As far as the S3 installation with Cablecards, I'm prepared for a disaster. The installer has never seen or heard of one. I had to physically show him the two slots on the unit before he would even believe me that I needed two cards. Are there any lessons learned here locally with TW cablecard installs into a Tivo S3?


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well we are not off to a good start this morning with my TW cable install (North Ridgeville). I have been a TW basic cable/internet subscriber for several years. Today I scheduled an upgrade to an HD Digital STB for one TV and two cablecards for the S3 Tivo. The installer shows up with ONE cable card and NOTHING else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . He said he'd be back later today with the appropriate deliverables. I'm not very optimistic. I knew there was a reason that I had stayed with D* for 9 years - Self Installs.
> 
> 
> As far as the S3 installation with Cablecards, I'm prepared for a disaster. The installer has never seen or heard of one. I had to physically show him the two slots on the unit before he would even believe me that I needed two cards. Are there any lessons learned here locally with TW cablecard installs into a Tivo S3?
> 
> 
> Thanks!




OK..calm down. relax. Hookbill is here.










The fact that he has no experience in cable card install shouldn't make any difference. Just make sure that when he shows up that when he shows up to do the install he does it EXACTLY like it says on the instructions. Wait until the one card activates. Then he needs to phone in the information for that card. Then put in the second card. Bottom card goes in first, this is all spelled out on your install sheet. If he does it exactly the way it says then you shouldn't have any problems.


Bad cable cards. That can be a problem. If he's smart he will call around and ask if anyone else knows about these installs and bring some extra cards. They should be the same version, if not that might be a problem but more then likely they will be.


If he calls you again before coming out ask him if he is bringing a couple of extra "just in case". Also ask him if he knows of anybody who has experiience with an S3 that he can call. My install was handled by a Supervisor and a lead tech and they had 5 cards with them. I also made a big stink in an email to TW about not having proper training and apparently it got to some higher up and that's why I got top noch service.


Again, the most important thing is they follow the instructions exactly as it is written on your install sheet. If he deviates at all stop him. Remind him this is your equipment, it's expensive and gee, it would be a shame if he ended up paying for it. I'm not kidding, I didn't have to do that but I was prepared to.


Don't allow him to leave until after the install you go through ALL the channels with him on both cards. You will see how to do that when you test install.


Good luck. I had the Supervisors direct number that did my install but he doesn't handle my area anymore and I see your on the West side so I don't have any idea of who handles your installs. Once you get through this episode you will be glad you got an S3.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK..calm down. relax. Hookbill is here.



Hilarious Hookbill! Exactly what I needed to hear. Feeling much better now...










Thanks for all the great advice. I'll be sure to update the outcome (assuming he actually comes back out today and didn't get too scared off this morning).


----------



## danwv

Has anyone been on the TW backorder list for HD DVRs ? I called on Jan 30 to order one and was told it would be a 4 week wait. 4 weeks after that I called and was told it would be another 4 weeks. So, after 8 weeks total, I called and was told that they had no idea of when they would be in. It has now been 10 weeks and I haven't heard a peep. Has anyone had one installed recently ? If so, how long did you have to wait ?


On a totally unrelated note, I've just jumped in to hd with both feet and purchased two tvs (on LG, the other Toshiba). I find it kind of funny that the local Fox station in HD (tuned by the TVs hooked up to the cable with no STB) is on different channels on the different tvs. I think on the LG it is 104-3 and on the Toshiba it is 104-1. Is this normal ?


Thanks,

dan


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danwv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone been on the TW backorder list for HD DVRs ? I called on Jan 30 to order one and was told it would be a 4 week wait. 4 weeks after that I called and was told it would be another 4 weeks. So, after 8 weeks total, I called and was told that they had no idea of when they would be in. It has now been 10 weeks and I haven't heard a peep. Has anyone had one installed recently ? If so, how long did you have to wait ?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> dan



Dan,


I discovered that I could actually lower my cable bill by switching to digital cable, and when I called I was also told it would be a 4 week wait for an 8300. I did not want to wait for a truck, just to install a non-HD DVR cable box, so I told them I would go to the local office and pick up the box myself.


When I got to the counter, I told the girl I really wanted the 8300. She said that they just got a few in, and gave me one.


If you live near a local office, stop in and ask for one. I suspect they keep a few around because it is easier to say no to someone on the phone than in person.


Chris.


----------



## hookbill

This is just a theory guys. I believe in June The FCC requires Cable has to use DVR boxes that have cable cards. So they probably don't want to issue anymore SA 8300's.


The cable DVR will have a two way cable card which will allow it to be used for things like On Demand and such. I believe that current DVR owners will not have to turn in their boxes, they will only be available to new orders.


So this may be the reason why your seeing a shortage in these boxes. Best bet is to go to the local office and hope they have some available.


Or you can purchase a TiVo S3.


----------



## KennedyJ

Well my TW cable upgrade ended up going very well after getting off to a rough start this morning. I'm happy to report that the Cablecard setup in the S3 went off without a hitch. We simply followed the instructions to the letter. So far so good. I am *very* happy with TW cable on the S3. And this is coming from a long time D* sub.


And to the poster wondering about TW HD DVR availability. I scheduled today's service call last Friday. I explicitly asked for an HD set top box (not a dvr). The installer brought out an *HD DVR* (Motorola DCT6416), saying that was all they had anymore. They had no regular HD STBs anywhere in the warehouse. This is West Side Cleveland. Sounds like some of these different metropolitan offices need to share some inventory.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well my TW cable upgrade ended up going very well after getting off to a rough start this morning. I'm happy to report that the Cablecard setup in the S3 went off without a hitch. We simply followed the instructions to the letter. So far so good. I am *very* happy with TW cable on the S3. And this is coming from a long time D* sub.
> 
> 
> And to the poster wondering about TW HD DVR availability. I scheduled today's service call last Friday. I explicitly asked for an HD set top box (not a dvr). The installer brought out an *HD DVR* (Motorola DCT6416), saying that was all they had anymore. They had no regular HD STBs anywhere in the warehouse. This is West Side Cleveland. Sounds like some of these different metropolitan offices need to share some inventory.



First I'm glad to hear your install went well. Congratulations, you have the best High Definition DVR on the market.


From what I learned about TW/Adelphia it's all like they are their own small separate companies. Each seems to have a different view of customer service and how they go about doing things. For example when I was serviced out of the Macedonia office I got top notch techs,, including my TiVo cable card install. Now I'm served out of another office and I could see the difference in the techs attitudes. Kind of, you can't tell me anything, I'm the TECH...hey!


Also I got a new customer service number now and I believe I'm talking to people in North Canton. These CSR's are much better trained then the one's out of Cleveland. They understand cable cards, how they work, the difference between one way and two way cards, even have an idea about how the S3 works.


Anyway have fun playing with your S3. Make sure your software is up to date you should be running 8.1 now. If your still running anything less force a call or two.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First I'm glad to hear your install went well. Congratulations, you have the best High Definition DVR on the market.



You've really sparked my interest hookbill... I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but..


I'm a Dish Network customer and while I cursed off cable many years ago for satellite, I've at times considered what cable could offer me. I really like the Dish DVR and it's the main reason I'm still with them.


What HD channels do you get with TWC here in Cleveland? What are the options for HD DVRs? Do they generally just give out the SA 8300? Is there dual tuners so you can record one show while watching another (or record 2 shows and watch a recorded program)?


Thanks to anyone that can help me with any of this. Cheers.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afiggatt* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Transmitter Coverage Maps for Google Earth*
> 
> 
> I don't see that anyone has posted this information here about the sticky thread in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum with very useful coverage maps for analog and digital TV stations and translators. The kmz files have been revised and now expanded for files covering the top 20 DMAs, including Cleveland. These files combined with Google Earth are a neat tool to see what the reception strength is for each station if you zoom down to your neighborhood or your street and flip through the stations. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 if you are interested.



Thanks for the link. I found that information interesting, so I saved some of the images. It took a while for me to get the needed updates for my computer, but here are some quick links. These images show the coverage areas for some of our local digital stations and are very detailed!!


WOIO-DT:










WEWS-DT:











WKYC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WKYC-DT.jpg 

WJW-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ank/WJW-DT.jpg 

WDLI-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WDLI-DT.jpg 

WFMJ-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WFMJ-DT.jpg 

WKBN-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WKBN-DT.jpg 

WUAB-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WUAB-DT.jpg 

WEAO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WEAO-DT.jpg 

WBNX-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WBNX-DT.jpg 

WQHS-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WQHS-DT.jpg 

WOAC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WOAC-DT.jpg


----------



## TheBlackKnight

To PBS 45&49:

The video on your Ohio Channel subchannel (49.3) is only showing a test pattern. The audio is there, but the video is not.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The installer brought out an *HD DVR* (Motorola DCT6416), saying that was all they had anymore.



I've never heard of that unit. We've seen the SA8000 and the SA8300 from Adelphia, and now T/W. Is the Motorola unit preferable to either of the SA units?


Edit: In an attempt to answer my own question, I looked up some info on the 6416. It appears to have the same basic features as the SA units, except that it has an integrated cable modem built in. But it has only a 120GB disk drive, and no obvious way to expand its storage. So I see more disadvantages than advantages.


Another report (not from Motorola) suggests that the latest versions of this unit have upgraded to a 160GB disk and added a SATA port, making it quite comparable to the 8300. However, the notes that I've seen suggest that the external SATA port is not active on the 6416 (however, that was almost a year ago).


Anyone know more?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've never heard of that unit. We've seen the SA8000 and the SA8300 from Adelphia, and now T/W. Is the Motorola unit preferable to either of the SA units?
> 
> 
> Edit: In an attempt to answer my own question, I looked up some info on the 6416. It appears to have the same basic features as the SA units, except that it has an integrated cable modem built in. But it has only a 120GB disk drive, and no obvious way to expand its storage. So I see more disadvantages than advantages.
> 
> 
> Another report (not from Motorola) suggests that the latest versions of this unit have upgraded to a 160GB disk and added a SATA port, making it quite comparable to the 8300. However, the notes that I've seen suggest that the external SATA port is not active on the 6416 (however, that was almost a year ago).
> 
> 
> Anyone know more?



Both are a pos. If you however are in SA 8300 area, you can't switch to the Motorola box. I suspect he was a former Comcast customer to have that box.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To PBS 45&49:
> 
> The video on your Ohio Channel subchannel (49.3) is only showing a test pattern. The audio is there, but the video is not.



If anyone sees a problem with 45 or 49, call 330.677.4549... 24/7. Their answering service will contact engineering after hours.


----------



## kosar1985

Please do not jump all over me but..... what is a cable card. I have had D* so long I do not know anything about cable TV's technology. Do you have to have it to hook up the HD DVR?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You've really sparked my interest hookbill... I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but..
> 
> 
> I'm a Dish Network customer and while I cursed off cable many years ago for satellite, I've at times considered what cable could offer me. I really like the Dish DVR and it's the main reason I'm still with them.
> 
> 
> What HD channels do you get with TWC here in Cleveland? What are the options for HD DVRs? Do they generally just give out the SA 8300? Is there dual tuners so you can record one show while watching another (or record 2 shows and watch a recorded program)?
> 
> 
> Thanks to anyone that can help me with any of this. Cheers.



Dish has more HD channels then TW. With TW however you don't rely on OTA for locals. TW has premium channels available, 4 locals ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, WVIZ HD,TNT HD, INHD, and STOHD, plus Cavs in HD.


Generally they give out the SA 8300, but as you can see there seems to be some problems with that at this time. It does have dual tuner but keep this in mind:


Your current DVR has software in it that has been stolen from TiVo. This has been decided by the courts as to how this will all come out that's still up in the air but at sometime something will happen that will either change your DVR or Dish will have to shell out a huge sum of money to TiVo.


I say this to you because if you switch to a regular cable DVR you will be terribly disappointed. Now if your thinking about switching and purchasing an TiVo S3, that is a different story. It will be costly but that would be the only way I would recommend you switch at this time.


If you get a notice from Dish saying we need to switch your DVR, you will know why now.


----------



## JJkizak

Andrew K:

Very nice pictures.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please do not jump all over me but..... what is a cable card. I have had D* so long I do not know anything about cable TV's technology. Do you have to have it to hook up the HD DVR?



If you have a television that has an HD tuner built in and you want to hook it up to cable you will have to install a cable card. It looks just like a credit card type thing and you put it in the slot. It allows the tuner to receive HD and encoded digital signals.


The S3 TiVo has two tuners so that requires two cable cards. In the future all DVR's will require cable cards (except the one's that are already in people's homes).


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dish has more HD channels then TW. With TW however you don't rely on OTA for locals. TW has premium channels available, 4 locals ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, WVIZ HD,TNT HD, INHD, and STOHD, plus Cavs in HD.



What do you mean by "rely on over the air channels".? I am a current Massillon cable subscriber and I really want STO in HD. They do not carry it and being a very small independent company aren't pursuing it at this time. I am considering directTV as an alternative as they claim to have STO and FSN in HD plus all the current channels I have in HD. They also claim to have local channels in HD. The big 4 are listed. I do not want to have to pull these in OTA as I am well outside the area. Does DirectTV have the 4 local channels in HD without me adding an antenna?


Thanks.


----------



## paule123

icicle22,

Before you jump to D*, you better call them and make sure you can get STO in your zip code. D* has unfairly "blacked out" some area zip codes. Unfortunately STO has recently redesigned their website and I can't find the list of providers or zip codes anymore. I shot STO an email to complain about this.


Also, if you are very picky about your HD picture quality, I think you will be disappointed in D*'s HD quality. I hear the MPEG4 locals are as good as OTA, but I can tell you DiscoveryHD, HDNet and the other HDs still running on D*'s "old" MPEG2 technology are not as good as my Wide Open West cable feed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "rely on over the air channels".? I am a current Massillon cable subscriber and I really want STO in HD. They do not carry it and being a very small independent company aren't pursuing it at this time. I am considering directTV as an alternative as they claim to have STO and FSN in HD plus all the current channels I have in HD. They also claim to have local channels in HD. The big 4 are listed. I do not want to have to pull these in OTA as I am well outside the area. Does DirectTV have the 4 local channels in HD without me adding an antenna?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Yes, I was talking about Dish not Direct TV. To the best of my knowledge Dish still does not offer locals. If I'm wrong on this, and I could be someone will correct me.







As to whether Direct TV offers STO in your area I can't tell you. In most of the areas around Cleveland it does, in some of the outlying areas it doesn't.


----------



## icicle22

I am in Stark County about 10 miles south of Akron so I am thinking DTV should get me STO.....but who knows.


I am picky about my HD quality too. I really don't want to go to DTV because I have heard horror stories of the quality. I have had both TWC and Massillon cable so my only exposure to HD has been cable based and I have to say I am noy unhappy with the quality. It is the lack of channels, particularly FSN and STO in HD that I long for. I am just not sure if the positive of getting these channels is negated by the loss in quality in HD across the board.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Both are a pos. If you however are in SA 8300 area, you can't switch to the Motorola box. I suspect he was a former Comcast customer to have that box.



You are correct Hookbill, I was a former Comcast customer. And unfortunately I have never used the 8300 so I cannot offer a comparison.


I am a hugh Tivo fan boy (left D* because of it), but I'll share my first impression of the DCT6416 with you. It honestly wasn't that bad. The learning curve from Tivo to the DCT6416 was easier than my attempt to go from Tivo to the D* HR20. Even my wife agreed with me on this point. It has a much more utilitarian feel to it than the S3. But all in all, as long as it continues to record what I tell it to, I think I'll be fairly satisfied with it. And for the one year price of $3.72/mo., it should serve well as our second TV DVR.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am picky about my HD quality too. I really don't want to go to DTV because I have heard horror stories of the quality....I am just not sure if the positive of getting these channels is negated by the loss in quality in HD across the board.



If that is a concern for you I would suggest looking for an in store demo or something similar (friend's house, etc) where you can see what the quality looks like to your eyes.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your current DVR has software in it that has been stolen from TiVo. This has been decided by the courts as to how this will all come out that's still up in the air but at sometime something will happen that will either change your DVR or Dish will have to shell out a huge sum of money to TiVo.
> 
> 
> If you get a notice from Dish saying we need to switch your DVR, you will know why now.



Thanks hookbill. I was actually looking for info on TWC services and equipment, not a history of corporate litigations. I'm aware of the situation with TiVo and the Dish DVR.


Having been a former TiVo subscriber, I can fairly judge the Dish DVR and it works very well for me (though I did miss the TiVo Recommends at first). I'll probably have to pass on the switch to cable as my wife and I watch a lot of Food Network HD & there are a couple other HD channels that I regularly record not available on TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If that is a concern for you I would suggest looking for an in store demo or something similar (friend's house, etc) where you can see what the quality looks like to your eyes.



I'll agree with you about going to a friends house but a store comparison for HD? Absolutely not.


Terry, you know as well as I do those things are not even amaturely (is that a word?) calibrated. How in the world can you do a comparison in store?


----------



## icicle22

It sucks when you are on the cutting edge. I have no friends who have HD yet to even compare!


Anyway, the general problem with D* HD is that it is bit starved, right? So action sequences and fast changes will cause macro-blocking? What about the resolution? Is that also compromised?


It's sad but I normally like to support the "little" guy but in this case, Massillon Cable it quite honest that are not even looking to add any new HD channels this year. They are focused on pushing their new "digital phone" and that is keeping them busy. Since they are a small company, all their resources are poured into that for now.


But they are the only game in town for now as far as cable goes. My only alternative is Sattelite and that is sounding bad.


----------



## ClevelandRob

Try Dish Network icicle... More HD channels than anyone else and a HD DVR that can control 2 TVs!


Unfortunately you'll need an OTA antenna because they have no locals in our market... Which is actually nice to have because you will be getting the best signal possible! They also do not have STO or FSN-Ohio in HD yet either... so you'll have to watch Indians in SD and watch the Cavs on National HD when they are on.


I only point out these negatives because I don't want to mislead you on their services at all.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyway, the general problem with D* HD is that it is bit starved, right? So action sequences and fast changes will cause macro-blocking? What about the resolution? Is that also compromised?



Yes, bit starved and down-rezzed. The satellite companies chop 1920x1080 (1080i) down to something like 1440x1080 or 1220x1080 and then bit-starve it. I think they leave 1280x720 (720p) alone, but they have been known to bit-starve it. Seems that Dish does it to a lesser degree than DirecTV. All you need do is look in the HDTV Programming forum for posts from HDTVFanatic - he monitors the DirecTV and Dish satellite feeds on a regular basis and reports on the bandwidth and downrezzing issues.


Also consider DirecTV is launching new satellites this summer, and that may or may not fix their HD issues. They also claim they'll have 100 national HD channels by the end of the year. We shall see. There's no easy choice.


----------



## icicle22

(in response to the Dish Network plug.....)


Thanks for the advice but seeing as the main reason I am thinking of switching from Massillon Cable is the lack of STO and FSN in HD....it doesn't make a lot of sense.


They currently have all 4 cleveland networks in HD

ESPN

ESPN2

TNT

Discovery HD

HDnet

HDnet movies

Universal HD

HBO HD

Showtime HD


I get STO and FSN but not in HD. So it would be a lateral move. Direct TV would have all of these plus STO and FSN in HD.


I am not sure but it looks like NFL network too. Plus any HD you get through buying special packages.


Truth be told I'd probably have switched by now if it weren't for the outrageous upfront cost of the HD-DVR. I currently have 2 of these through Massillon cable too.


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (in response to the Dish Network plug.....)
> 
> 
> 
> Truth be told I'd probably have switched by now if it weren't for the outrageous upfront cost of the HD-DVR. I currently have 2 of these through Massillon cable too.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Well, the reason you say that is because you haven't experienced a real good DVR. I don't think Dish's DVR is the best but it is better then what you have.


If your happy with your current DVR that's fine. But if you came over to my house and saw what my S3 can do, you might be a bit shocked.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Your current DVR has software in it that has been stolen from TiVo. This has been decided by the courts as to how this will all come out that's still up in the air but at sometime something will happen that will either change your DVR or Dish will have to shell out a huge sum of money to TiVo.



The software was not "stolen" from TiVO, the functionality of an E* DVR is too similar to a TiVO from the courts perspective. The court was wrong and I believe the decision will be overturned on appeal.


There is a major difference between the E* and TiVO DVR: a TiVO takes an analog input and digitizes it for recording on an hard drive. An E* DVR OTOH takes a digital signal and records it to a hard drive. The fact that both Tivo and E* can pause and replay live TV is the only similarity. How it's accomplished is quite different. If E* does not win the appeal, your cable DVR's may soon suffer the same fate (unless your cable boox is already a Tivo brand).


What ever happened to competition in the U.S.A.? There were other devices doing the same thing as TiVO (anyone remember "Replay TV"?) You can also use your PC to dothe same thing with an ATI All-In-Wonder card, as well as several other brands. TiVO needs to get a life and stop bullying their way into market share. E* had a device that did everythig a TiVO did in 1999 (the Dishplayer). So for the courts to say that E* stole anything from Tivo is a stretch.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll agree with you about going to a friends house but a store comparison for HD? Absolutely not.
> 
> 
> Terry, you know as well as I do those things are not even amaturely (is that a word?) calibrated. How in the world can you do a comparison in store?



Well, for one things like macroblocking and resolution shouldn't be all that much affected by color levels and such. Secondly you always have the option to play with the settings on the TV in the store. Not to mention there are home theater stores where you may have a good chance of a well calibrated display.


I'm not saying it's the best option (especially due to the variability of display technologies and qualities), but it should give people some idea of the picture quality of the source.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is a major difference between the E* and TiVO DVR: a TiVO takes an analog input and digitizes it for recording on an hard drive. An E* DVR OTOH takes a digital signal and records it to a hard drive.



Sorry, but that is a gross over generalization. The DirecTiVos and the S3 can record digital as digital.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I'm referring to TiVO's patents, which the courts claim E* infringed. There were no DirecTiVo's or S3's in 1999 when the Dishplayer came out. If anything, the DirecTiVo's and S3's may be infringing on an E* patent!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link. I found that information interesting, so I saved some of the images. It took a while for me to get the needed updates for my computer, but here are some quick links. These images show the coverage areas for some of our local digital stations and are very detailed!!
> 
> 
> WOIO-DT:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WEWS-DT:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WKYC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WKYC-DT.jpg
> 
> WJW-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ank/WJW-DT.jpg
> 
> WDLI-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WDLI-DT.jpg
> 
> WFMJ-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WFMJ-DT.jpg
> 
> WKBN-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WKBN-DT.jpg
> 
> WUAB-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WUAB-DT.jpg
> 
> WEAO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WEAO-DT.jpg
> 
> WBNX-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WBNX-DT.jpg
> 
> WQHS-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WQHS-DT.jpg
> 
> WOAC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WOAC-DT.jpg



What an eye-opener. WOIO barely gets out of the antenna farm with a hot signal, whle WEWS covers a much larger area with a strong signal.


And the cheepos at WOIO want to stay on rf 10????


Since you've included WKBN & WFMJ, could you also add WYTV to the "Photobucket"? Thanks!


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What an eye-opener. WOIO barely gets out of the antenna farm with a hot signal, whle WEWS covers a much larger area with a strong signal.
> 
> 
> And the cheepos at WOIO want to stay on rf 10????
> 
> 
> Since you've included WKBN & WFMJ, could you also add WYTV to the "Photobucket"? Thanks!



Yes, that was my point to show how measely WOIO's digital signal really is. The blue and purple colors show the areas where the signal is really weak but may be possible with an outdoor antenna. White, red, orange, yellow, and green represent the good areas where an indoor antenna is all that is really needed, and cyan represents areas that require an outdoor antenna. This program is cool because you can zoom in as far as your neighborhood, and it takes terrain and all transmitter information into account.


Here are some more pictures I've added of WYTV and a few neighboring DTV stations (Erie, Pittsburgh, and Columbus aren't available yet)...


WYTV-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WYTV-DT.jpg 

WNEO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WNEO-DT.jpg 


WTOL-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WTOL-DT.jpg 

WTVG-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WTVG-DT.jpg 

WNWO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WNWO-DT.jpg 

WGTE-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WGTE-DT.jpg 

WUPW-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WUPW-DT.jpg 

WJBK-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WJBK-DT.jpg 


Future WMFD-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WMFD-DT.jpg 

Future WVIZ-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WVIZ-DT.jpg


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The software was not "stolen" from TiVO, the functionality of an E* DVR is too similar to a TiVO from the courts perspective. The court was wrong and I believe the decision will be overturned on appeal.
> 
> 
> There is a major difference between the E* and TiVO DVR: a TiVO takes an analog input and digitizes it for recording on an hard drive. An E* DVR OTOH takes a digital signal and records it to a hard drive. The fact that both Tivo and E* can pause and replay live TV is the only similarity. How it's accomplished is quite different. If E* does not win the appeal, your cable DVR's may soon suffer the same fate (unless your cable boox is already a Tivo brand).
> 
> 
> What ever happened to competition in the U.S.A.? There were other devices doing the same thing as TiVO (anyone remember "Replay TV"?) You can also use your PC to dothe same thing with an ATI All-In-Wonder card, as well as several other brands. TiVO needs to get a life and stop bullying their way into market share. E* had a device that did everythig a TiVO did in 1999 (the Dishplayer). So for the courts to say that E* stole anything from Tivo is a stretch.



Innocent until proven guilty. They were found guilty. Everyone appeals. Remember how many times Microsoft appealled to no avail?


----------



## JJkizak

I noticed that NBC national news (3.1) went to HD on OTA recently.

JJK


----------



## icicle22

Hookbill,


Will the S3 work with Direct TV? Will it work with cable? You are right that I have only had exposure to the SA8000, SA8300 and currently the Motorola 6414. All of these have worked fine with the rare exception that I occassionally have to power cycle them because they get squirelly. But all 3 have always recorded everything I told it to.



The issue is I rent these for like 5 bucks a month with no long term agreement. With DirectTV I would have to pay $299 for their HD DVR and then still pay a lease fee? What if I cancel the service after a year? Do I have to return it?


I am not doubting that the S3 has features that I'd like, so my comment was less on that and more to do with the fact that D* requires a significant upfront cost just to get setup for HD DVR service. So everytime I think I have convimced myself that I am going to go D*, the upfront cost stops me.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, the reason you say that is because you haven't experienced a real good DVR. I don't think Dish's DVR is the best but it is better then what you have.
> 
> 
> If your happy with your current DVR that's fine. But if you came over to my house and saw what my S3 can do, you might be a bit shocked.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (in response to the Dish Network plug.....)
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice but seeing as the main reason I am thinking of switching from Massillon Cable is the lack of STO and FSN in HD....it doesn't make a lot of sense.




Sorry. I didn't read that far back... That is a tough call. You can go with DirecTV, but like you said, the upfront cost of equipment is sometimes discouraging. It might be worth it though, because they are going to get over 100 national HD channels that aren't even broadcasted!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill,
> 
> 
> Will the S3 work with Direct TV? Will it work with cable? You are right that I have only had exposure to the SA8000, SA8300 and currently the Motorola 6414. All of these have worked fine with the rare exception that I occassionally have to power cycle them because they get squirelly. But all 3 have always recorded everything I told it to.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is I rent these for like 5 bucks a month with no long term agreement. With DirectTV I would have to pay $299 for their HD DVR and then still pay a lease fee? What if I cancel the service after a year? Do I have to return it?
> 
> 
> I am not doubting that the S3 has features that I'd like, so my comment was less on that and more to do with the fact that D* requires a significant upfront cost just to get setup for HD DVR service. So everytime I think I have convimced myself that I am going to go D*, the upfront cost stops me.



The S3 works woth cable and over the air only. In addition with the S3 you would not only pay more for your DVR, right now I believe the cheapest you can get them at is 600.00, you would also have to pay either a monthly fee, yearly fee, or multiple yearly fee. Monthly fee I believe is around 13 bucks.










It really doesn't sound like it's what you want since cost is a big concern for you.


At one time D* used TiVo software and you can still buy these HD units and Direct TV will activate them and support them. However there will still be a small monthly charge for using the 'service." I believe that model is the HR10-250. Also that model requires an antenna because it is not capable of receiving D*'s locals in HD.


The reason most people do a purchase the S3 is either they have used TiVo before in the past and want to continue to use their outstanding features, or like me the quality and problems of their cable DVR were just so overwhelming they are willing to pay for something that is reliable.


----------



## ClevelandRob

Anyone have some audio sync issues with WEWS? It's more noticeable at some times than others.. First noticed it on Sunday night and then again last night... Delayed through receiver AND display.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have some audio sync issues with WEWS? It's more noticeable at some times than others.. First noticed it on Sunday night and then again last night... Delayed through receiver AND display.



Yes.


I've noticed this problem since they went to Dolby 5.1 full time. I also see it a bit on one or two of the shows I've recorded.


As far as the news itself it seems that the out of synch issue is more prominent when they do non studio shots.


----------



## HD MM

Having previously used equipment from Adelphia, D*, E* and TiVo I came to a verdict on which one I will be sticking with. And with all things considered I will have to put E*s ViP622 HD DVR above ALL others.










The inital cost of the DVR is recouped in 10 months with the credit you will receive on your monthly bill following your purchase. The interface, functionality, control, number of inputs and 2-TV per 1 box of the ViP622 makes this box my choice above others.


As for RSN's and Local's in HD..... Keep your fingers crossed. I have a feeling Cleveland's next on the list. If you choose D*, you will become accustomed to the waiting game.....


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And with all things considered I will have to put E*s ViP622 HD DVR above ALL others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inital cost of the DVR is recouped in 10 months with the credit you will receive on your monthly bill following your purchase. The interface, functionality, control, number of inputs and 2-TV per 1 box of the ViP622 makes this box my choice above others.



I second this. The box is not perfect (some menu choices are not optimized) but it is darn close. The skip forward/backward buttons are genious, missing from my old TiVo. The integration of OTA and satellite is very nice, great searching, extremely fast.


I also agree that Cleveland (FOXOH-HD, etc) has to be up on E*s list somewhere. I hope so anyway, because I will shed a tear if I have to give up the vip622 due to a lack of programming.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Having previously used equipment from Adelphia, D*, E* and TiVo I came to a verdict on which one I will be sticking with. And with all things considered I will have to put E*s ViP622 HD DVR above ALL others.



You may have had TiVo in the past but you never had the S3. If the TiVo's you had in the past were not HD or even dual channle, of course you are going to say that E's DVD is best. And don't forget they stole TiVo's software to make that thing.


----------



## icicle22

Thanks. I am not really looking for any new features or anything from the DVR. I would be happy with a little more storage however. I am thinking I might just stick with Massillon Cable for now and deal with the Tribe in SD. The Cavs are almost done and the playoffs will all be on major networks in HD anyway. This will give D* time to get their new sattelites up and really prove me wrong about them....




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The S3 works woth cable and over the air only. In addition with the S3 you would not only pay more for your DVR, right now I believe the cheapest you can get them at is 600.00, you would also have to pay either a monthly fee, yearly fee, or multiple yearly fee. Monthly fee I believe is around 13 bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really doesn't sound like it's what you want since cost is a big concern for you.
> 
> 
> At one time D* used TiVo software and you can still buy these HD units and Direct TV will activate them and support them. However there will still be a small monthly charge for using the 'service." I believe that model is the HR10-250. Also that model requires an antenna because it is not capable of receiving D*'s locals in HD.
> 
> 
> The reason most people do a purchase the S3 is either they have used TiVo before in the past and want to continue to use their outstanding features, or like me the quality and problems of their cable DVR were just so overwhelming they are willing to pay for something that is reliable.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The skip forward/backward buttons are genious, missing from my old TiVo.



Wow thanks! How did I forget to mention that? I don't know how I would live without the 30 second skip forward and the 10 second skip back button. Seems simple enough, but no other provider has those buttons programmed into their remotes.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may have had TiVo in the past but you never had the S3. If the TiVo's you had in the past were not HD or even dual channle, of course you are going to say that E's DVD is best.



No I never had the S3. Have you tried the ViP622?


I realize after countless posts on how you favor the TiVo S3 over all others you may be a bit biased, but why would I shell out $600+ and excessive monthly fees for to replace a box that I am perfectly happy with. And upon researching, I think the ViP is MORE capable of suiting my needs than the S3!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And don't forget they stole TiVo's software to make that thing.



Give it up already.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow thanks! How did I forget to mention that? I don't know how I would live without the 30 second skip forward and the 10 second skip back button. Seems simple enough, but no other provider has those buttons programmed into their remotes.



TiVo has a 30 second skip and tick. You program it into the TiVo by pressing Select, Play, Select,3,0,Select. Then the >I gives you 30 seconds forward and it winds back a couple of seconds as well.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may have had TiVo in the past but you never had the S3. If the TiVo's you had in the past were not HD or even dual channle, of course you are going to say that E's DVD is best. And don't forget they stole TiVo's software to make that thing.



If it were not for one issue, I would have switched from D* and my HD Tivo to WOW and the S3.


The S3 may become an expensive door stop. Its current cable card version is only one way communications (i.e., no ordering of specials, etc.). I could live with that; but there is a bigger issue. Comcast has already implemented in many areas, and the other cable companies may follow, a technology called switched video (objective is to free up bandwith). It sends only a limited (read very popular) number of channels to each home. Others are at a "switch" and downloaded to a specific homes only upon request. This requires two way communications.


Given the S3's limit of one way communications (because of the current version of cable card), it will not work with the new technology. If/when your cable company implements the new technology, your S3 becomes basically useless except for a limited number of channels. The upgrade to two way communications is not a firmware upgrade!


If/when a new cable card (2 way) is approved and implemented in the S3, I may make the change. Not before.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No I never had the S3. Have you tried the ViP622?
> 
> 
> I realize after countless posts on how you favor the TiVo S3 over all others you may be a bit biased, but why would I shell out $600+ and excessive monthly fees for to replace a box that I am perfectly happy with. And upon researching, I think the ViP is MORE capable of suiting my needs than the S3!



No I haven't but I didn't make the comparison, you did. And I'm telling you can't add TiVo in that loop unless you've seen the S3. I know for a fact however that the S3 is better simply based on the fact that the S3 is THX certified, which the Vip622 isn't. This certification requires that the DVR meet certain standards. Second can your Vip622 give you Yahoo weather, Local traffic? Can it play music from your computer? You do have Pay per view which the S3 doesn't have but the S3 has Amazon Unbox so you can download movies directly from Amazon to your S3.


And no, I absolutely don't think you should shell out money on a DVR your happy with. I do tell you however that there may be changes in the near future. That 30 second skip you like so much? That may be going away if Dish has to change out their boxes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Give it up already.....



I don't deny that I'm a TiVo fanboy, but facts are facts. I"m sorry if my post about the fact that E* upsets you but I love the S3 and I won't quit talking about it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If it were not for one issue, I would have switched from D* and my HD Tivo to WOW and the S3.
> 
> 
> The S3 may become an expensive door stop. Its current cable card version is only one way communications (i.e., no ordering of specials, etc.). I could live with that; but there is a bigger issue. Comcast has already implemented in many areas, and the other cable companies may follow, a technology called switched video (objective is to free up bandwith). It sends only a limited (read very popular) number of channels to each home. Others are at a "switch" and downloaded to a specific homes only upon request. This requires two way communications.
> 
> 
> Given the S3's limit of one way communications (because of the current version of cable card), it will not work with the new technology. If/when your cable company implements the new technology, your S3 becomes basically useless except for a limited number of channels. The upgrade to two way communications is not a firmware upgrade
> 
> 
> If/when a new cable card (2 way) is approved and implemented in the S3, I may make the change. Not before.



The S3's hardware is not capable of 2 way communication, however it can use the 2 way card. I reference that as a simple fact that 2 way cards work...but only one way. It will NEVER be able to do 2 way communication because the hardware cannot work that way. Plain and simple. I admit that.


OK, SDV. SDV is just barely being talked about by Comcast but your absolutely right they have decided to release it. Time Warner has full blown SDV in Austin Texas and Rochester New York. So how does this effect the S3?


First it does mean that any channel that it on SDV the S3 will not receive. However not every channel is on SDV. In Austin I believe about 100 are, but they also have about 300 channels there. Many of the channels are not the "popular" channels.


It will probably limit the growth of HD channels that you can acquire. So as more HD channels are added with cable on SDV the S3 will not be able to add these channels that are put on SDV. However in our area that is so far off into the future it's hardly worth talking about.


TW has to first pull together all these different ex Adelphia areas and get them on their system so that they all have the same line up. That's going to be tough enough to do but let's just say they pull it off by June. The next trick would be to implement the SDV technology. All of these different ex Adelphia areas are really small cable companies that were absorbed. They would need to bring all of these in line to work with SDV. That's not going to happen, not this year or next year.


Now lets say they did pull it off and I'm wrong. Here's my opinion. Big deal. I'll still have access to the majority of what I want in HD which is locals, they won't put those on SDV. They will still have their analog stations which won't be on SDV. I may loose the Hallmark channel which I record every blue moon but even that is iffy.


The point of SDV isn't to put every channel they have on it. It's to reduce bandwith on digital channels so they can provide more programming. But if you have high demand on certain HD and digital channels, they will not put those on SDV.


My point is the S3 isn't a door stop, it won't be in the future. I will admit it may not be what it is at this moment but it will not be absolutely worthless.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Innocent until proven guilty. They were found guilty. Everyone appeals. Remember how many times Microsoft appealled to no avail?



This is not the same thing as any litigation Microsoft was involved in. Tivo "jury shopped". Had this case been held in another juristiction the "verdict" would have been different. Tivo found a sympathetic (or is that just pathetic) judge.


Here are the cold facts:

1.) E* had a DVR device in 1999 that did just about everything a Tivo did. How many Tivos were on the market in 1999?

2.) E* DVR's (all of them not just some models) record the raw digital datastream off the satellite transponder without any a/d conversion inside the DVR. In fact for an E* DVR to play back the recording you need the smart card to decrypt just as if the data was "live" off the satellite.


The only similarity between Tivo and E* DVR's is the ability to pause & rewind live television programs. How it was done is different - it was not done with "stolen" software, because Tivo software could not record a digital input.


If E* does not win on appeal, all your SA8300's and all other non Tivo DVR's will be next, mark my word!


This case is similar to Ford suing GM over the manufacturing of the automobile.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't deny that I'm a TiVo fanboy, but facts are facts. I"m sorry if my post about the fact that E* upsets you but I love the S3 and I won't quit talking about it.



The problem with the S3 is that you have to subscribe to {shudder} cable









(I guess that make me an E*fanboy)


----------



## mdewitt

Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels? Their web site makes no mention of it and I can't find any recent posts to confirm it. I think it is available but it's hush-hush on the web site because they don't want you to know you can get HD for so little. I have the E* vip622 so I'm still waiting on locals and all I can get OTA is basically 5.1 and 8.1. I live in Fairlawn right by Akron so 3.1 and PBSHD are too weak.


Thanks


----------



## craigv

Looks like we will probably have our new channel lineups on April 27. This article mentions they are moving ONN to digital on that day. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=21849&rfi=6


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mdewitt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels? Their web site makes no mention of it and I can't find any recent posts to confirm it. I think it is available but it's hush-hush on the web site because they don't want you to know you can get HD for so little. I have the E* vip622 so I'm still waiting on locals and all I can get OTA is basically 5.1 and 8.1. I live in Fairlawn right by Akron so 3.1 and PBSHD are too weak.
> 
> 
> Thanks



In order to receive HD channels you will have to have their basic digital tier, and subscribe to basic HD service. There is higher tier for addional HD channels as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem with the S3 is that you have to subscribe to {shudder} cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I guess that make me an E*fanboy)



Actually I was a fan of D* but at that time I also had D-TiVo so really it was the TiVo software that made me a fan. I tried a couple times to get D* installed in my home but I live in a heavily wooded area and line of sight problems prevent me from getting it. However with the release of the TiVo S3 I wouldn't want D* now anyway.


I've considered E* in the past but from what I understand I would still have the same line of sight problems.


----------



## hookbill

I'm going to make it a mini mission of mine today to kind of take a look at WEWS, probably when their noon news cast comes on and check out the voice synch. Last night it was so bad on the 5 and 6 O'clock news I couldn't take it and I was just glancing at it from time to time. I can't believe they don't know they are experiencing problems. I think I saw it on "Wheel of Fortune" as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *craigv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like we will probably have our new channel lineups on April 27. This article mentions they are moving ONN to digital on that day. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=21849&rfi=6



It appears I'm in that area of change as well. I suspect from the statement however that it's just the one channel, not the entire lineup. They mentioned that ONN is already on the digital tier in the other Time Warner areas.


Perhaps their plan is first to get all of ex Adelphia on the same channels, then after that make the big switch to their TW networks.


Whatever they decide to do when that time comes I suspect that I will have a more difficult time with it because of the S3. On the TiVo boards they were talking about the switch out in L.A. It took a couple of days to get it straightened out.


----------



## SteveC

Just noticed last night that TWC Akron finally added ESPN2HD to their HD tier. Hopefully that is the first of several new HD channels this year. I'm hoping Versus will be next(and soon).


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know for a fact however that the S3 is better simply based on the fact that the S3 is THX certified, which the Vip622 isn't.



How much current programming that is broadcast on TV is even outputing content that is THX certified? Seems like overkill. I am happy with my Digital Optical Out and Dolby Digital...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Second can your Vip622 give you Yahoo weather, Local traffic?



Isn't that what the weather channel, newspaper, constant radio updates and barometers are for? Sorry, I don't fire up my system to check the weather!










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can it play music from your computer?



I can easily hookup an I-Pod to my receiver. Same concept. Also, E*s programming package includes endless amounts of Sirius Music channels. Sounds fantastic! And I don't even have to jump through hoops to stream from one source to another!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You do have Pay per view which the S3 doesn't have but the S3 has Amazon Unbox so you can download movies directly from Amazon to your S3.



Honestly, how often have you downloaded a movie from Amazon's Unbox? Just curious, is the PQ any better than SD? Any HD downloads available? Seems like a waste!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And no, I absolutely don't think you should shell out money on a DVR your happy with. I do tell you however that there may be changes in the near future. That 30 second skip you like so much? That may be going away if Dish has to change out their boxes.



You're really adamant on this arn't you? Other's here disagree. I'm not worried about it eaither. I like Michael's assimilation to Ford suing GM over the manufacturing of automobiles. Besides isn't TiVo the one copying E* here? Without a hack, you wouldn't have the 30 second skip!










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't deny that I'm a TiVo fanboy, but facts are facts. I"m sorry if my post about the fact that E* upsets you but I love the S3 and I won't quit talking about it.



I'm not upset. Far from it. I just love my ViP. Apparently I am not alone on this either. CNet, upon comparing to D* HR20 and the S3, awarded the ViP622 it's highly distinguished editor's choice award among HD DVR's!


----------



## ivoryguy36




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mdewitt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels? Their web site makes no mention of it and I can't find any recent posts to confirm it. I think it is available but it's hush-hush on the web site because they don't want you to know you can get HD for so little. I have the E* vip622 so I'm still waiting on locals and all I can get OTA is basically 5.1 and 8.1. I live in Fairlawn right by Akron so 3.1 and PBSHD are too weak.
> 
> 
> Thanks



As I remember it in Canton, I had to have digital cable and their digital receiver in order to get the OTA local HD channels, and then if you wanted ALL the HD channels they offer, you had to pay another $ 8.00 a month for their HD tier.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mdewitt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels?



It probably doesn't at this time as the filter that you probably have installed on your line (to block the "expanded basic" analog channels) would filter out the frequencies in which the digital locals are carried and they aren't required to provide these channels on this level of service. If you have a QAM capable tuner in your HDTV I would recommend trying to scan your cable line to see what you can get, you may be surprised.


Then you can always try complaining to the TWC office that they have unfairly blocked the digital locals that should be carried on the most basic tier. This IS NOT a true statement, but they _may_ fall for it with the confusion surrounding the current FCC regulations and take the filter off your line.


Do keep in mind this is assuming you have a QAM capable tuner of your own otherwise you need to subscribe to digital basic and rent a STB from TWC.


----------



## ClevelandRob

TiVo, SchmiVo....


There are some things from the TiVo I miss (mostly just the TiVo recommends). But I own the ViP622 now and the fact that it can record 3 things at once (2 Sat/1 OTA tuner) and provides service to TWO sets (both HD), seals the deal for me.


Yahoo Weather & Traffic??? Who the hell cares.. look outside! The S3, like all TiVo products, are not directly associated with any provider. It is continually brought up that TiVo's technology was stolen and will be terminated on E* boxes... but how long do you think cable will allow TiVo boxes to work with their service? Do you think they aren't thinking about how D* pushed TiVo aside and is reaping the benefits of manufacturing their own boxes?


As the technology changes for E*, the ViP622 changes as well. The equipment is not held at bay by the provider because they are the same. TiVo has made a great name for itself and brought the DVR to the forefront, but how long will they be able to evolve in the market? Will people continue to pay a separate monthly bill for the same service they can get from their provider at half the cost? I suspect that TiVo and it's subscribers pray that the cable conglomerate wise up and just by TiVo.


Unfortunately for me, my biggest problem is that no provider offers all the programming I want. I thought about a switch to cable, but they lack several of the channels I really want. D* is missing only a couple but their technology is not very desirable. I will stick with E* and hope that they add the RSNs and locals. For now I will watch my OTA and SD RSNs.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I own the ViP622 now and the fact that it can record 3 things at once (2 Sat/1 OTA tuner) and provides service to TWO sets (both HD), seals the deal for me.



The dual mode (service to two sets) is a great convenience with the ability to be able to access TV1's hard drive on TV2. I can't tell you how many times this comes in to play when I watch a recorded program from the comfort of my bed just before I turn in for the night.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The S3, like all TiVo products, are not directly associated with any provider. It is continually brought up that TiVo's technology was stolen and will be terminated on E* boxes... but how long do you think cable will allow TiVo boxes to work with their service? Do you think they aren't thinking about how D* pushed TiVo aside and is reaping the benefits of manufacturing their own boxes?



Excellent point.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The dual mode (service to two sets) is a great convenience with the ability to be able to access TV1's hard drive on TV2. I can't tell you how many times this comes in to play when I watch a recorded program from the comfort of my bed just before I turn in for the night.



I'm intrigued by this dual mode service. Can you explain to me how this works. How are two sets physically hooked up or networked together? And it provides HD on both sets? Very interesting...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The dual mode (service to two sets) is a great convenience with the ability to be able to access TV1's hard drive on TV2. I can't tell you how many times this comes in to play when I watch a recorded program from the comfort of my bed just before I turn in for the night.



On this point you got me. The S3 cannot at this time do multi room viewing but that is because they have not come up with a way of doing this to satisfy CableLabs, which is ran by the evil cable companies.







However the TiVo S2 can indeed do multiroom viewing...but not HD.


That however will change eventually and the S3 will be able to do multi room viewing....however you will need another TiVo to do it.


Cleveland Rob the Yahoo Traffic is nice if your expecting someone and you want to know what the traffic conditions are. It's right at your fingertips and you can localize it for several locations around town. Unles you can look out your window and see the traffic, I think it's cool.










There is also TiVoCast where you can download little mini shows directly from TiVo. I don't use that much but it is there. Also you can purchase movie theater tickets, play games. Just a lot of little extras that quite frankly I could care less about and your right, really no big deal.


Does the E* box provide a wishlist? If it doesn't and you don't know what it is, a wishlist is where TiVo will find a specific movie, actor, director, etc that you may want to see that may not be currently playing. I use it if I think of an old movie I would like to see and if it comes up, TiVo records it for me.


One last thing. I'm not saying E*'s box is a pos. I simply don't believe it's as good as TiVo's S3. And if you guys are happy with it, fine. We're all friends here and I don't want anybody upset about my enthusiasim over my S3 so I'll stop talking about it at this point and if you feel you want to respond please feel free.


----------



## TLaz

I am having frequent break ups (macroblocking) on WEWS-DT today. Normally I receive the channel rock solid. Is anyone else noticing the same?


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am having frequent break ups (macroblocking) on WEWS-DT today. Normally I receive the channel rock solid. Is anyone else noticing the same?



The problem should be fixed by this afternoon. It's an issue with a piece of bad equipment that sends the digital signal to the transmitter.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm intrigued by this dual mode service. Can you explain to me how this works. How are two sets physically hooked up or networked together? And it provides HD on both sets? Very interesting...



Sure.....


E* installers do the standard setup of linking the 2 TV's through a RF wireless transmitter. This small transmitter is connected to one of the coaxial ouputs on TV1. TV1 has has the box. TV2 does not. This saves from multi-tv households from renting an additional box and avoids more clutter in the bedroom. (Considering that's where you choose TV2 to be.)


Upon custom install, TV2 can retrieve all content and can perform just about all functions independently as TV1. However, when viewing live/recorded HD content on TV2, it will be down-converted to SD. Also, depending on screen type, the image isn't cropped to fit TV2. For instance, if TV2 is 4:3 the HD image is left 16:9, so part of the horizontal image is cut off. If TV2 is 16:9, HD viewing will accommodate the full screen while the image is technically down-converted SD. To receive HD on both TV's, like ClevelandRob mentions, this can be achieved by being a bit creative.....


You would run component cables from the ViP's TV1 output to TV2's component input. This would however limit TV2's "live" viewing to whatever is being watched on TV1 if they are both simultaneously in use. For me, this wouldn't be a problem because I could always watch recorded stuff or typically when I go to bed, TV1 is not in use. The idea is that this allows for HD on both sets and with only 1 box!


If I am missing something, please chime in ClevelandRob.....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does the E* box provide a wishlist? If it doesn't and you don't know what it is, a wishlist is where TiVo will find a specific movie, actor, director, etc that you may want to see that may not be currently playing. I use it if I think of an old movie I would like to see and if it comes up, TiVo records it for me.



Yup. A feature called DishPass allows you to search/record programs that meet a keyword. Such as actor or director. The ViP's standard search allows you to narrow your search by genre and sun-genre. The search history is stored in the memory to enable you to repeat previous searches.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On this point you got me. The S3 cannot at this time do multi room viewing but that is because they have not come up with a way of doing this to satisfy CableLabs, which is ran by the evil cable companies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However the TiVo S2 can indeed do multiroom viewing...but not HD.



I have my ViP622 hooked up to my TV2 (32" LCD) via a standard coax. This sends a signal in "dual mode" in which both TVs can watch two things independently including off of the hard drive. Not to miss lead anyone, when viewing in this mode, it is standard def 480i. I ALSO have TV2 hooked up through Component Cable. While in "single mode" I can watch HD on both TVs, but not independently. Not a problem for me as TV2 is in the bedroom and the TVs are rarely both on (maybe once a month or so).





> Quote:
> Cleveland Rob the Yahoo Traffic is nice if your expecting someone and you want to know what the traffic conditions are. It's right at your fingertips and you can localize it for several locations around town. Unles you can look out your window and see the traffic, I think it's cool.



I guess I'm a little laid back... I don't really care what kinda traffic my company runs into! Maybe if I lived in NYC or LA... to each his own.




> Quote:
> Does the E* box provide a wishlist? If it doesn't and you don't know what it is, a wishlist is where TiVo will find a specific movie, actor, director, etc that you may want to see that may not be currently playing. I use it if I think of an old movie I would like to see and if it comes up, TiVo records it for me.



Yes it does. It's called DishPass though. They must have stole that from TiVo












> Quote:
> One last thing. I'm not saying E*'s box is a pos. I simply don't believe it's as good as TiVo's S3. And if you guys are happy with it, fine. We're all friends here and I don't want anybody upset about my enthusiasim over my S3 so I'll stop talking about it at this point and if you feel you want to respond please feel free.



Well, I've never owned the S3 and I'm saying it IS a POS! Just kidding... We all have our own opinions and I don't shame anyone for it or resent them. Maybe E* will buy out TiVo during all of the legal crap, then you can punch yourself in the face .


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sure.....
> 
> 
> E* installers do the standard setup of linking the 2 TV's through a RF wireless transmitter. This small transmitter is connected to one of the coaxial ouputs on TV1. TV1 has has the box. TV2 does not. This saves from multi-tv households from renting an additional box and avoids more clutter in the bedroom. (Considering that's where you choose TV2 to be.)
> 
> 
> Upon custom install, TV2 can retrieve all content and can perform just about all functions independently as TV1. However, when viewing live/recorded HD content on TV2, it will be down-converted to SD. Also, depending on screen type, the image isn't cropped to fit TV2. For instance, if TV2 is 4:3 the HD image is left 16:9, so part of the horizontal image is cut off. If TV2 is 16:9, HD viewing will accommodate the full screen while the image is technically down-converted SD. To receive HD on both TV's, like ClevelandRob mentions, this can be achieved by being a bit creative.....
> 
> 
> You would run component cables from the ViP's TV1 output to TV2's component input. This would however limit TV2's "live" viewing to whatever is being watched on TV1 if they are both simultaneously in use. For me, this wouldn't be a problem because I could always watch recorded stuff or typically when I go to bed, TV1 is not in use. The idea is that this allows for HD on both sets and with only 1 box!
> 
> 
> If I am missing something, please chime in ClevelandRob.....



Thanks for the explanation. That wireless RF feature sounds like a real nice option. That's awesome that they include it for free.


I have similar capabilities in my house compliments of a system called AVCast. In a nut shell it gives all of the TVs in the house a dedicated channel to tune to that displays the output of one or more av devices (includes IR remote support). The only down side is that it's SD only at this point. Here's a link if anyone is interested.

http://www.crossbarmedia.com/html/media_kit.html


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem should be fixed by this afternoon. It's an issue with a piece of bad equipment that sends the digital signal to the transmitter.



I've also noticed several times over the past week or so shows that should have been broadcast in HD were simply upconverted programs.


Is this related to the bad equipment or is somebody asleep at the switch in Master Control?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem should be fixed by this afternoon. It's an issue with a piece of bad equipment that sends the digital signal to the transmitter.



Yes, I'm seeing that too. Actually I noticed it last night as well as the sound synch being off.


Gary, I left a message at some assistant engineers desk at WEWS. By your message I'm assuming you either work at WEWS or know someone who does. Is this piece of equipment also have something to do with the voice synch as well? It seemed to be part of the voice synch problem while I was watching.


----------



## lefkas

For those of you who are news hounds like me, the NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams recently started broadcasting in hi- def. For some reason, the picture quality doesn't seem as sharp as NBC's Sunday night football broadcasts or other HD programming on the network. Also, only the studio shots are in HD. The reported pieces are either stretched or have the side bars.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm seeing that too. Actually I noticed it last night as well as the sound synch being off.
> 
> 
> Gary, I left a message at some assistant engineers desk at WEWS. By your message I'm assuming you either work at WEWS or know someone who does. Is this piece of equipment also have something to do with the voice synch as well? It seemed to be part of the voice synch problem while I was watching.




The lip sync issue is partially due to the addition of 5.1 audio which puts the ABC lip sync in a slightly different mode from local so it still needs some tweaking and is being worked on.

The breakup in the picture may or may not be corrected in the next day or two. So far the replacement equipment is not doing what it's supposed to do.

Finally, the non-HD programming earlier this week was an ABC failure in New York that affected the HD feed to the entire eastern/central/mountain time zones. They fixed it in time for Wednesday morning but it caused "Dancing with the Stars" and "Boston Legal" to feed in upconverted SD only.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The lip sync issue is partially due to the addition of 5.1 audio which puts the ABC lip sync in a slightly different mode from local so it still needs some tweaking and is being worked on.



Any eta when it will fixed. It's just awful distracting.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Finally, the non-HD programming earlier this week was an ABC failure in New York that affected the HD feed to the entire eastern/central/mountain time zones. They fixed it in time for Wednesday morning but it caused "Dancing with the Stars" and *"Boston Legal"* to feed in upconverted SD only.



Blasphemy! Boston Legal in upconvert? That's one of the best looking show's in HD. Where's my phone, I'm calling Denny Crane.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just noticed last night that TWC Akron finally added ESPN2HD to their HD tier. Hopefully that is the first of several new HD channels this year. I'm hoping Versus will be next(and soon).



I've been with TW for less than a week here on the West side of Cleveland. Today I do notice ESPN2HD and Universal HD. Did I miss seeing these channels earlier in the week or are they in fact new additions?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been with TW for less than a week here on the West side of Cleveland. Today I do notice ESPN2HD and Universal HD. Did I miss seeing these channels earlier in the week or are they in fact new additions?



For those of you who wern't with Adelphia in the past ESPN2HD may be new. We've had it for over a year at least. Universal HD is new, I noticed that my HD STB doesn't have any guide data yet so it probably just started up today. My S3 is phoneing in now, I don't know if it will have any knowledge of the station.


I'll bet that if you call customer service right now they probably arn't aware that Universal is even on. KennedyJ since you have an S3 it may be a couple of days before you can get it on the S3.


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The lip sync issue is partially due to the addition of 5.1 audio which puts the ABC lip sync in a slightly different mode from local so it still needs some tweaking and is being worked on.
> 
> The breakup in the picture may or may not be corrected in the next day or two. So far the replacement equipment is not doing what it's supposed to do.
> 
> Finally, the non-HD programming earlier this week was an ABC failure in New York that affected the HD feed to the entire eastern/central/mountain time zones. They fixed it in time for Wednesday morning but it caused "Dancing with the Stars" and "Boston Legal" to feed in upconverted SD only.



Shame on ABC for taking 2 nights to fix the problem.


In the future WEWS may want to run a crawl or put something on their website to let the viewers know what's going on.


----------



## dponeill

Well, Adelphia/Time Warner rolled back the firmware on the 8300 again! I'm back to getting the HDCP error when connecting via HDMI to my receiver then to the TV. The 4th FF/RW speed is also gone.


----------



## Argee

Why isn't the Indians game being broadcast in HD on DirecTV? They are supposed to be carrying STO in HD from what they said and all Indians homes games are supposed to be HD. What am I missing?


----------



## paule123

Argee,

Do you have the newer MPEG4 receiver? I think that is required to get STO HD from DirecTV.


On another note, STO really pushed the score bug down to the lower right corner of the 4:3 frame. The balls/strikes/MPH are a bit cut off on my old 4:3 SD CRT TV's. Bring it a little to the left please....







IMO they could make the player graphics a bit smaller. Also can't get used to the red/silver who's on base graphic. Half the time I can't remember if red is the man on base or the silver.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, Adelphia/Time Warner rolled back the firmware on the 8300 again! I'm back to getting the HDCP error when connecting via HDMI to my receiver then to the TV. The 4th FF/RW speed is also gone.



I have to admit I'm a bit curious about this one. I didn't really understand why they rolled it back the first time because really the problem wasn't with the firmware on the 8300.


Just out of curiosity did you check your diagnostic screen to see what firmware is listed? If you don't know how to do it, press and hold the select button on the box itself and wait until the mail light flashes. Then press info and just scroll the screens until you see the software (firmware) version.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm watching it on Channel 96 right now on DirecTV. It isn't in the program guide though, you just have to tune it in. This happened with HD Cavs games sometimes, which were often on without any warning.


----------



## paule123

The Indians game on STO was HD on WOW cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Indians game on STO was HD on WOW cable.




It was on TW 798 in HD in my area. No problem.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to admit I'm a bit curious about this one. I didn't really understand why they rolled it back the first time because really the problem wasn't with the firmware on the 8300.
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity did you check your diagnostic screen to see what firmware is listed? If you don't know how to do it, press and hold the select button on the box itself and wait until the mail light flashes. Then press info and just scroll the screens until you see the software (firmware) version.



1.87.16.1


I don't know why they would have done this. I wasn't having any problems with the new firmware.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1.87.16.1
> 
> 
> I don't know why they would have done this. I wasn't having any problems with the new firmware.



It's a mystery to me too. That is the old firmware version. Sorry to hear that.


The good thing about that upgrade was you could play from the beginning while recording. I thought that 4th speed was just too fast and kind of useless.


----------



## Argee

Yes, I found it. It was on channel 96 but nothing was in the program guide so unless one was lucky or physic, you would have no idea that it was there.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am having frequent break ups (macroblocking) on WEWS-DT today. Normally I receive the channel rock solid. Is anyone else noticing the same?



WEWS has been macroblocking here for almost a week. The first sign that they were having problems was when the audio started having dropouts. A few days ago I had Nightline on during a segment about Don Imus and the audio just faded out all together for about a minute or so. I flipped to the analog ch 5 and the audio was still there. The very next day the macroblocking began. My signal level is constant (I'm in the antenna farm) however the macroblocking looks similar to the reception I get when WFMJ-DT comes in from Youngstown (unlike WKBN which is near-perfect 24/7).


Unfortunately WYTV is the weakest signal out of Youngstown, so I can't confirm weather they had certain ABC programs in HD.


Last night the 11 PM news on WEWS was in SD. No mention of the technical problems were made - the news staff went on their merry way with HD this and that







I was able to see a hint of the sidbars along the side of the 4X3 picture when they showed highlights from the Indians game. I wonder if they even knew about the technical problems. They looked foolish to me by not mentioning the problems while continuing to mention HD. That's the danger of "branding" your news with an HD moniker before the technology is perfected.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been with TW for less than a week here on the West side of Cleveland. Today I do notice ESPN2HD and Universal HD. Did I miss seeing these channels earlier in the week or are they in fact new additions?



What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night the 11 PM news on WEWS was in SD. No mention of the technical problems were made - the news staff went on their merry way with HD this and that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was able to see a hint of the sidbars along the side of the 4X3 picture when they showed highlights from the Indians game. I wonder if they even knew about the technical problems. They looked foolish to me by not mentioning the problems while continuing to mention HD. That's the danger of "branding" your news with an HD moniker before the technology is perfected.



I left a voice mail at their enginering department telling them that the news is basically unwatchable. I also sent an email. No response.


That to me is an obvious sign that it's broke and they can't figure out how to fix it. I'm surprised that they haven't shut down the Dolby 5.2.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?



In my area it's 775.


My S3 will go to that channel but diagnostics tells me it's on a channel with nothing beig being broadcasted.


My HD STB ustairs indicates i sees the cannel but no broadccast data is available.


HOW ABOUT THEM DODGERS! Kicked the behinds of San Dego 9-1. Dodgers look good this year and wouldn't it be grea if they played the Tribe for the Worls Seies? All of you guys could take a shot at me.



















s


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I left a voice mail at their enginering department telling them that the news is basically unwatchable. I also sent an email. No response.
> 
> 
> That to me is an obvious sign that it's broke and they can't figure out how to fix it. I'm surprised that they haven't shut down the Dolby 5.2.




There were multiple problems involving the digital transmitter and microwave links. A new exciter for the transmitter is scheduled for delivery/installation today which should (hopefully) fix things. The problems made it necessary to forego any HD on Friday night and upconvert (or downconvert) everything. Let's remember that a lot of the digital equipment is still first generation and is being upgraded as quickly as possible. However, even some of the latest gear ships with problems (not unlike the problems with all the new DirecTV and similar digital receivers). Unfortunately, just because broadcast equipment costs a lot more than consumer equipment doesn't necessarily make it more reliable. Sad but true.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?



Channel 227


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In my area it's 775.
> 
> 
> My S3 will go to that channel but diagnostics tells me it's on a channel with nothing beig being broadcasted.
> 
> 
> My HD STB ustairs indicates i sees the cannel but no broadccast data is available.



Looks like another, different area, different results thing. I have full guide data and the channel is functioning fine on both my STB and S3.


----------



## jtscherne

I found it by going to STO's website, which gave the HD channel number there for DirecTV. I think it has something to do with the method they use to deliver it that keeps the program guide from appearing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I found it. It was on channel 96 but nothing was in the program guide so unless one was lucky or physic, you would have no idea that it was there.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There were multiple problems involving the digital transmitter and microwave links. A new exciter for the transmitter is scheduled for delivery/installation today which should (hopefully) fix things. The problems made it necessary to forego any HD on Friday night and upconvert (or downconvert) everything. Let's remember that a lot of the digital equipment is still first generation and is being upgraded as quickly as possible. However, even some of the latest gear ships with problems (not unlike the problems with all the new DirecTV and similar digital receivers). Unfortunately, just because broadcast equipment costs a lot more than consumer equipment doesn't necessarily make it more reliable. Sad but true.



I take it then that the macroblocking I saw originates with the STL? If so that's a relief. I tried readjusting my indoor antenna to no avail. This same antenna works fine for the rest of the Cleveland locals, in fact I keep it centerd on WEWS since from my POV (.8 of a mile ~ESE of the WJW tower) that transmitter is more or less the centrally located stick (at least of the UHF DT's).


----------



## atperson100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There were multiple problems involving the digital transmitter and microwave links. A new exciter for the transmitter is scheduled for delivery/installation today which should (hopefully) fix things. The problems made it necessary to forego any HD on Friday night and upconvert (or downconvert) everything. Let's remember that a lot of the digital equipment is still first generation and is being upgraded as quickly as possible. However, even some of the latest gear ships with problems (not unlike the problems with all the new DirecTV and similar digital receivers). Unfortunately, just because broadcast equipment costs a lot more than consumer equipment doesn't necessarily make it more reliable. Sad but true.



I guess they must be working on it now.. Was watching Shark Tale in HD... Then at around 9pm, the signal went out completely.......


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I found it by going to STO's website, which gave the HD channel number there for DirecTV. I think it has something to do with the method they use to deliver it that keeps the program guide from appearing.



DirecTV's "method" is some guy getting a kick in the ass from an angry caller and flipping the switch. At least that's how it worked last year


----------



## paule123

For you Dish Network folks, it looks like they're starting to add some HD RSN's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828669 


I didn't see FSN Ohio mentioned or STO, though.


----------



## paule123

Saturday was the first chance I got to watch a Tribe game in HD on STO on my new 50" 1080p plasma and I was stunned at the excellent PQ. I didn't see any of the MPEG artifacts I'm used to seeing on other HD broadcasts. Nice job, STO !


Watching via Wide Open West cable.


----------



## Bryan 93 ?

On the east side TWC dropped FSN HD for ESPN2 HD. I think this is fine for now because FSN didn't have any more cavs games scheduled in HD. I just hope this isn't a problem next year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bryan 93 ?* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the east side TWC dropped FSN HD for ESPN2 HD. I think this is fine for now because FSN didn't have any more cavs games scheduled in HD. I just hope this isn't a problem next year.



What FSN HD? I've never seen that, I live in Bainbridge Twp.


Are you referring to channel 798? That's the channel used for Cavs games in HD and now for the Tribe home games.


Also on the Eastside I've noticed in my area I still don't have data for Universal HD. I'm serviced now out of Concord. And as of right now I can't even get channel 775 on th S3, it simply doesn't know it's there. I've notified both TiVo and zap2it.com so it may take a couple of days. I may make a call to my connection at head end about the data it it doesn't come up soon. I figure they got it going late Friday and perhaps they just haven't had a chance to get it on the screen yet.


----------



## bassguitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a mystery to me too. That is the old firmware version. Sorry to hear that.
> 
> 
> The good thing about that upgrade was you could play from the beginning while recording. I thought that 4th speed was just too fast and kind of useless.



Yes, they "unupgraded me also" former Adelphia customer.

I dont know why

Dave


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, they "unupgraded me also" former Adelphia customer.
> 
> I dont know why
> 
> Dave



I wonder if they did this to try and "fix" the problems WEWS-DT has been having lately.... Didn't Adelphia downgrade firmware once before when Fox WJW-DT was having problems?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *atperson100* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess they must be working on it now.. Was watching Shark Tale in HD... Then at around 9pm, the signal went out completely.......



Last night the 11 PM news was back in HD but there were still a few macroblocking episodes, as well as a couple of out and out dropouts which caused my E* 921 to give either an "acquiring signal" or "no signal found". Still, it's a little bit better than it has been.


I'm assuming (until Gary can confirm or deny) that the macroblocking is caused by a problem with the STL (studio transmitter link).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if they did this to try and "fix" the problems WEWS-DT has been having lately.... Didn't Adelphia downgrade firmware once before when Fox WJW-DT was having problems?



Can't be, first we already know that WEWS is acknowledging a problem with their own equipment, and second I'm getting it on my S3 and people are reporting it over the air as well.


The problem with WJW was that the DVR stopped recording when it went to local commercials. Adelphia, in their "wisdom" started getting all these calls about their DVR screwing up and panicked and reinstalled the old software which did not help. It turned out to be a code problem in the data stream.


Edited to add:


I think I missed your point. After reviewing your comments, "whoops they did it again.?"


----------



## Bryan 93 ?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What FSN HD? I've never seen that, I live in Bainbridge Twp.



Yeah FSN HD was the channel Cavs games were on. For me it was 253, STO (Indians games) is 251. Now 253 is ESPN HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if they did this to try and "fix" the problems WEWS-DT has been having lately....



Nope. I know they're working through some other stuff right now. This should be temporary; sit tight.


----------



## JoeySR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, they "unupgraded me also" former Adelphia customer.
> 
> I dont know why
> 
> Dave



I think they upgraded us for the Daylight Savings Time issue in March, that created

the CL-16 issue with VOD. Once they got to the first Sunday in April when DST usually occured they rolled us back. I just hope that get us back to the new version soon with a fix for the VOD as I really liked the ability to whatch and entire program while it was being recorded and the fourth speed.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope. I know they're working through some other stuff right now. This should be temporary; sit tight.



Which should be temporary, the WEWS problems or the downgraded SARA version? I really hope you mean the DVR, because taking away useful features for a second time really sucks.


I do see that their info channel lists system upgrades for this evening and tomorrow between midnite and six. I really hope they reinstall the newer SARA version. I also wouldn't mind the additions of WBNX-HD and VS-HD...


----------



## Inundated

WEWS's 11 PM news is in SD tonight on WEWS-DT.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which should be temporary, the WEWS problems or the downgraded SARA version? I really hope you mean the DVR, because taking away useful features for a second time really sucks.
> 
> 
> I do see that their info channel lists system upgrades for this evening and tomorrow between midnite and six. I really hope they reinstall the newer SARA version. I also wouldn't mind the additions of WBNX-HD and VS-HD...



Just my opinion but I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing that update again for some time. Just out of curiosity has anyone called customer service to see what they have to say about it or sent an email? Probably sending an email would be the smart decision. I'd do it myself buy I don't have the SA 8300.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEWS's 11 PM news is in SD tonight on WEWS-DT.



I've got WEWS as a "toxic channel" for my S3 (on their newscast). Their constant macroblocking and pixelation really is creating havoc on my DVR. I'm back to watching WJW until they get it together..


It did appear to me however that the lyp synch issue was resolved yesterday.


----------



## hookbill

I checked as of yesterday evening it now has guide data on my HD STB. I still can't get the channel on my S3 yet.


----------



## eml626

I am on the east side of Cleveland on the former Adelphia now Time Warner. I am using the HDHOMERUN solution through MCE. Has anyone else using a QAM tuner not the S3 found Universal HD frequency? If so where can it be located?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I checked as of yesterday evening it now has guide data on my HD STB. I still can't get the channel on my S3 yet.




Called my contact at TW head end. She sent me a signal to my cable cards and now I have Universal HD on channel 775. Still no guide data yet. I am on the phone with TiVo now trying to reach a level 3 tech.


----------



## Inundated

WEWS's noon newscast was in SD this afternoon, as well. Is there a major HD problem at 5???


----------



## ClevelandRob

I'm looking for local recommendations on OTA antennas.... Anybody that can help will be very appreciated!


soooo... I live less than 15 miles from the farthest tower in Cleveland. I have a kinda "winged-disc" looking antenna from Radioshack in my attic and I normally get good reception on WKYC. I have issues consistently with WOIO and now I am having trouble with FOX... I've been on other forums and have heard people say they pick up stations from 30, 50 even 75 miles away. I'm really not that far from the farm, so you would think I could get these stations with a good attic antenna without any issues.


Anyone have any recommendations for antennas that work well in the Cleveland market? I live over in the Macedonia/Twinsburg area if that helps.


----------



## pogamoggan

Hi,


Can anyone tell me what HD channels I would be able to pick up with Time Warner Cable for free if I had a set with a QAM tuner? I currently subscribe to analog cable. Located West side of Cleveland.


Thanks!


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pogamoggan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me what HD channels I would be able to pick up with Time Warner Cable for free if I had a set with a QAM tuner? I currently subscribe to analog cable. Located West side of Cleveland.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



You can expect all the locals in HD and their associated sub channels (3,5,8,19,43). I'm West side (formerly Comcast).


----------



## eml626

I am on the east side formerly Adelphia but we receive. abc, nbc, cbs, fox, upn 43, pbs, discovery, tnt, and the hdbonus channel. the quality through media center and on the HDHOMERUN is far superior to anything I have seen on any Time Warner box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEWS's noon newscast was in SD this afternoon, as well. Is there a major HD problem at 5???



This is really bad. Even showing in SD WEWS DT news continues to have macroblocking and sound drop offs. Also in the corner it still says "HD" so obviously they must think they are going to get through this.


It's still toxic to my TiVo S3. Those sound drop offs turn into no sound and I have to pause and plat to get the sound back. If I rewind I don't hear the sound problems at all.


I guess I could watch with a 30 second delay and it might be fine.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is really bad. Even showing in SD WEWS DT news continues to have macroblocking and sound drop offs. Also in the corner it still says "HD" so obviously they must think they are going to get through this.
> 
> 
> It's still toxic to my TiVo S3. Those sound drop offs turn into no sound and I have to pause and plat to get the sound back. If I rewind I don't hear the sound problems at all.
> 
> 
> I guess I could watch with a 30 second delay and it might be fine.



Yikes! For once my E* 921 has something in common with cable: a "toxic channel".


WOIO used to be a "toxic channel" for the 921. The fix was to do exactly what Hook is doing with his S3. The only diffeence was the WOIO problem has to do with the picture insted of the sound (the reds, and any color containing red were distorted) A 3 second delay was the fix.


As for the WEWS audio dropouts, I too get them. In fact the dropouts were the precursor to the macroblocking. I'm still waiting tfor Gary16 to confirm that these issues are caused by their STL. In essence it's GIGO - the transmetter is getting garbage (the macroblocking and audio dropouts - not the programming) in and therefore sends garbage out


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yikes! For once my E* 921 has something in common with cable: a "toxic channel".
> 
> 
> WOIO used to be a "toxic channel" for the 921. The fix was to do exactly what Hook is doing with his S3. The only diffeence was the WOIO problem has to do with the picture insted of the sound (the reds, and any color containing red were distorted) A 3 second delay was the fix.
> 
> 
> As for the WEWS audio dropouts, I too get them. In fact the dropouts were the precursor to the macroblocking. I'm still waiting tfor Gary16 to confirm that these issues are caused by their STL. In essence it's GIGO - the transmetter is getting garbage (the macroblocking and audio dropouts - not the programming) in and therefore sends garbage out



Well, I got brave and decided to turn on WEWS again. They are back on HD, the sound is perfect and, hopefully, they seem to have fixed their problem.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pogamoggan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me what HD channels I would be able to pick up with Time Warner Cable for free if I had a set with a QAM tuner? I currently subscribe to analog cable. Located West side of Cleveland.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



With a cable card you will get all the locals plus TNTHD and Discovery. I also just reset my cable card, and while it shows UNIVERSALHD, I am not authorized... on the other hand, I am now getting ESPN1HD and ESPN2HD. I am sure that this is a mistake.


----------



## Felony44

Did D* stop carrying STO in HD? it does not surprise me i was just wondering and did anyone notice that they HAD channel 77 set up for National Geo and that fell by the way side i really hate D*


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am on the east side of Cleveland on the former Adelphia now Time Warner. I am using the HDHOMERUN solution through MCE. Has anyone else using a QAM tuner not the S3 found Universal HD frequency? If so where can it be located?



699mhz.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which should be temporary, the WEWS problems or the downgraded SARA version?



The SARA version. Joey is on the right track...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did D* stop carrying STO in HD? it does not surprise me i was just wondering and did anyone notice that they HAD channel 77 set up for National Geo and that fell by the way side i really hate D*



Tonights game wasn't in hd. However I did notice that it was on TW 798 in SD with Dolby 5.1 sound.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tonights game wasn't in hd. However I did notice that it was on TW 798 in SD with Dolby 5.1 sound.



IIRC most if not all of the away games are in SD. The home games get to use those sparkling Sony 910 HD cameras.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IIRC most if not all of the away games are in SD. The home games get to use those sparkling Sony 910 HD cameras.



Right. All the away games are SD unless they are on WKYC or ESPN. I think Fox picks up a Saturday game sometime, but Fox isn't doing all their Saturday games in HD.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I got brave and decided to turn on WEWS again. They are back on HD, the sound is perfect and, hopefully, they seem to have fixed their problem.




I don't want to say that everything's fixed, but there haven't been any issues since around 6:00 tonight. There are still problems that are being worked on, but, yes, the lip sync issue appears to be fixed.


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can expect all the locals in HD and their associated sub channels (3,5,8,19,43). I'm West side (formerly Comcast).



I am not sure, but you may also get Discovery HD and PBS HD


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The SARA version. Joey is on the right track...




Well, after two evenings of supposed VOD 'system upgrades' we're still stuck with the same old version.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, after two evenings of supposed VOD 'system upgrades' we're still stuck with the same old version.



An upgrade on VOD and the SA 8300 have nothing to do with each other. The SA 8300 cannot record VOD, only show it. A regular STB does the same thing.


I think Paule123 got it right. When WEWS started having problems TW got worried and pulled the new firmware. I hope you enjoyed it while you had it, you probably won't see it again for at least another year.










Now you could go get an TiVo S3 and get all those features (and more) that you got from the upgrade. But that is a lot of money. Here's the good news: TiVo is working on what they call a "mass market" (cheaper) HD DVR. I have no idea what it will have on it but whatever they come up with I'll guarantee it's better then that SA 8300. If it's better then my S3 I'll be crying in my beer.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't want to say that everything's fixed, but there haven't been any issues since around 6:00 tonight. There are still problems that are being worked on, but, yes, the lip sync issue appears to be fixed.



Between 10 and 11 PM last night on WEWS the picture would sometimes lose horizontal hold: the top of the picture would pop up on the bottom about a quarter of the way for a few seconds and then correct itself.


This is with an E* 921 OTA mode. I have never seen anything like this in digital before, it's a throwback to the days of vacuum tube analog sets.


THere was also a brief loss of signal during "The Night Watch"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Between 10 and 11 PM last night on WEWS the picture would sometimes lose horizontal hold: the top of the picture would pop up on the bottom about a quarter of the way for a few seconds and then correct itself.
> 
> 
> This is with an E* 921 OTA mode. I have never seen anything like this in digital before, it's a throwback to the days of vacuum tube analog sets.
> 
> 
> THere was also a brief loss of signal during "The Night Watch"



This is interesting. A couple of weeks ago there was some talks about this same exact sympton on the TiVo boards. It had nothing to do with WEWS.


----------



## Andrew K

I'm wondering why WBNX only had their digital channel up for one day, and I haven't seen a trace of the signal since then. It's been almost two weeks. Maybe they have issues with dropouts, or maybe they're putting together a subchannel that they promised. I don't know the answer. Does anyone else know what the problem is?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An upgrade on VOD and the SA 8300 have nothing to do with each other.



I beg to differ. VOD applications are middleware which run on top of the STB's operating system. They have everything to do with each other.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I beg to differ. VOD applications are middleware which run on top of the STB's operating system. They have everything to do with each other.



OK. But that still doesn't mean that the VOD upgrade had anything to do with the SA 8300. And I stand by my statement that you won't see that upgrade for another year.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK. But that still doesn't mean that the VOD upgrade had anything to do with the SA 8300. And I stand by my statement that you won't see that upgrade for another year.



Are you positive? Call me silly but I'm a little more optimistic than that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you positive? Call me silly but I'm a little more optimistic than that.



I checked to see when you joined the forum and I'm pretty certain that the last time this happened was in the fall of 2005. Anyway after we got the update and the problems with FOX occurred they pulled the update right from underneath us.


OK, that was Adelphia. And things are changing and believe it or not I'd really like to see you guys have the upgrade. But my gut tells me they won't pull the switch on it.


Actually I'm a bit surprised they released it again at all as I thought they might wait until everything is switched over and then give you Passport software. But who knows?


I'll tell you what. If they don't have the upgrade by the time TiVo comes out with their "mass market" HD-DVR....give it some serious consideration at that time. Really IIRC the only advantage of that upgrade was the play from the beginning while recording feature. The 4th speed was too fast. I think I recall something on the menu that was interesting, but I forgot what it was.


Anyway, good luck. You stay positive, I'll stay realistic.


----------



## bill57

Brand new guy here. Got a new TV with digital tuner. In Mayfield Heights I only receive WKYC. I don't even get a weak signal on 31 (WJW), 34 (WQHS), 26 (WVIZ), 28 (WUAB) or 10 (WOIO).

What's wrong?


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I checked to see when you joined the forum and I'm pretty certain that the last time this happened was in the fall of 2005. Anyway after we got the update and the problems with FOX occurred they pulled the update right from underneath us.
> 
> 
> OK, that was Adelphia. And things are changing and believe it or not I'd really like to see you guys have the upgrade. But my gut tells me they won't pull the switch on it.
> 
> 
> Actually I'm a bit surprised they released it again at all as I thought they might wait until everything is switched over and then give you Passport software. But who knows?
> 
> 
> I'll tell you what. If they don't have the upgrade by the time TiVo comes out with their "mass market" HD-DVR....give it some serious consideration at that time. Really IIRC the only advantage of that upgrade was the play from the beginning while recording feature. The 4th speed was too fast. I think I recall something on the menu that was interesting, but I forgot what it was.
> 
> 
> Anyway, good luck. You stay positive, I'll stay realistic.



They had to make the change due to DST issues. That means they will have to make the change again this fall at the latest. It seems kind of silly to keep switching back and forth, so hopefully someone at TWC will figure it out and get the same SARA version that most of the rest of the country is using working stable on our system.


The 4th speed is not too fast at all... it is invaluable when dealing with recorded sporting events and getting back to a specific spot on recorded movies and long shows. There is also a very useful option in 'record all shows' that let's you pick a specific *day* and time slot rather than just time slot.


Finally, Tivo is a complete non-starter in this household. Losing On-Demand is a drag, but not vital... no Center Ice package, on the other hand, means no Tivo here. So given that fact, I'd like to have the 8300 running a version that at least addresses some of it's inherent deficiencies.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They had to make the change due to DST issues. That means they will have to make the change again this fall at the latest. It seems kind of silly to keep switching back and forth, so hopefully someone at TWC will figure it out and get the same SARA version that most of the rest of the country is using working stable on our system.
> 
> 
> Finally, Tivo is a complete non-starter in this household. Losing On-Demand is a drag, but not vital... no Center Ice package, on the other hand, means no Tivo here. So given that fact, I'd like to have the 8300 running a version that at least addresses some of it's inherent deficiencies.



HehHeh...DSL was a problem long before the change for the SA 8300. I had to manually erase and add all my "record all" programs....except the day time shows...for some reason they were ok.


And just who told you there was no Center Ice? Watched a bit of it myself the other day. Don't know how, but there it was.


Center Ice, MLB Extra Innings, ESPN College, and NBA all available with S3.


In some TW areas that is not so, but here we get it.


I've got MLB EXTRA INNINGS.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bill57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Brand new guy here. Got a new TV with digital tuner. In Mayfield Heights I only receive WKYC. I don't even get a weak signal on 31 (WJW), 34 (WQHS), 26 (WVIZ), 28 (WUAB) or 10 (WOIO).
> 
> What's wrong?




Welcome Bill. WKYC tends to come in the best for me as well. From what I understand, WVIZ is still running on low voltage meaning that only the immediately surround areas will pick it up.


Is your antenna VHF and UHF? I think WKYC and WOIO are the only VHF, but it wouldn't be uncommon for you to have problems with WOIO even with a VHF antenna. They are both located at the same compass orientation for me as well, yet I've never been able to fully rely on WOIO. For some reason I have trouble with the signal during the day, yet I record the Late Show every night and 95% of the time I have ZERO issues with it.










I'm sure you've already visited antennaweb.org, but if not, you might find some useful info on your situation there. I'm still trying to figure this all out and improve my own signal for consistency. There are many people on here that can be even more helpful than me, so just hang around this forum and I'm sure someone can help you out.


Cheers.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bill57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Brand new guy here. Got a new TV with digital tuner. In Mayfield Heights I only receive WKYC. I don't even get a weak signal on 31 (WJW), 34 (WQHS), 26 (WVIZ), 28 (WUAB) or 10 (WOIO).
> 
> What's wrong?



You mention a TV with a digital tuner, however nothing about an antenna. I assume you have an antenna. Where is it mounted? Did you do a channel scan? I live right next to you in Lyndhurst and I get all HD broadcast channels without a hitch most all of the time.


3.1- (WKYC)

5.1- (WEWS)

8.1- (WJW)

19.1- (WOIO)

25.1- (WVIZ)


----------



## eml626

Bill what brand/model tv did you purchase? Is it possible that this tv has a QAM tuner. If so this will save you a tremendous amount of hassle in setup! Depending on where you live in the lyndhurst, mayfield heights, beachwood area there are a lot of known multipath issues with ota hd especially near the mall and near the many large stores and shopping centers on mayfield road.


----------



## pogamoggan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With a cable card you will get all the locals plus TNTHD and Discovery. I also just reset my cable card, and while it shows UNIVERSALHD, I am not authorized... on the other hand, I am now getting ESPN1HD and ESPN2HD. I am sure that this is a mistake.



So I need a cable card then? Sorry, I'm just looking at buying a new hdtv so I'm trying to figure out what to get. If the tv has QAM but no cable card slot would I get anything? (looking at a Sony S2000 or S2010 series LCD with QAM)


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pogamoggan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I need a cable card then? Sorry, I'm just looking at buying a new hdtv so I'm trying to figure out what to get. If the tv has QAM but no cable card slot would I get anything? (looking at a Sony S2000 or S2010 series LCD with QAM)
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Assuming it works the way my S3 does without cable cards, yes. You would get locals and I think you get Discovery HD as well.


Inundated, where the heck are you? You know what he would get.


----------



## bill57

Thanks for the replys. I bought a Toshiba 27D46 for my father to replace his 20 year old RCA. Just wanted something that would work for him after the change-over (did not need HD). The manual, which was written for kindergarteners, shows the "television system" (tuner?) as being "NTSC standard, ATSC standard (8VSB), QAM" He lives in an apartment with a VHF antenna on the roof of the 3-story building. Receives WKYC digital, and WKYC digital weather channels real good. No other digital stations are remotely present.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bill57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replys. I bought a Toshiba 27D46 for my father to replace his 20 year old RCA. Just wanted something that would work for him after the change-over (did not need HD). The manual, which was written for kindergarteners, shows the "television system" (tuner?) as being "NTSC standard, ATSC standard (8VSB), QAM" He lives in an apartment with a VHF antenna on the roof of the 3-story building. Receives WKYC digital, and WKYC digital weather channels real good. No other digital stations are remotely present.



Does he have a window that faces west? If so an indoor antenna _might_ help get the UHF's. Apartment in-house antennas are not reliable, especially in the last 15 years since most people subscribe to cable. I bet the antenna is damaged and/or the lead in is broken somewhere.


WKYC will not stay on ch 2 for digital for long. In 2009 after the transition period ends they will move to UHF channel 17. If that antenna system is not fixed by then he'll get nothing.


Here are the channels that the digital signals are on today:


WKYC - ch 2

WEWS - ch 15

WJW - ch 31

WOIO - ch 10

WUAB - ch 28

WBNX - ch 30 * Not yet on the air - they did a one day test 2 weeks ago

WVIZ - 26 ** very low power temporary transmitter, unless you are on Brookpark Rd. 2 miles or less from the transmitter, forgetaboutit!


There are also a few Akron signals available, but from the East side I'd also say forgetaboutit due to a terrain obstruction called Richfield (which is where they should have put the transmitters insted of the lowlands of West Akron).


----------



## hookbill

It appears to me that the voice synch on WEWS is slightly off again today. I say "appears" because if it is off it's only slightly off.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It appears to me that the voice synch on WEWS is slightly off again today. I say "appears" because if it is off it's only slightly off.



I don't know if it was just me but I had major clicking noise on WEWS for a few minutes during Lost... It was pretty annoying. And the audio before, after and during for 5 minutes was low and crappy.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pogamoggan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I need a cable card then? Sorry, I'm just looking at buying a new hdtv so I'm trying to figure out what to get. If the tv has QAM but no cable card slot would I get anything? (looking at a Sony S2000 or S2010 series LCD with QAM)
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I've just looked at the specs on the S2000 and S2010 and they only mention an ATSC tuner for HD. This will not pick up cable's QAM signals; it will only pick up broadcast HD with an antenna.


You can always use it with an external set-top box or Tivo S3 for cable HD reception.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if it was just me but I had major clicking noise on WEWS for a few minutes during Lost... It was pretty annoying. And the audio before, after and during for 5 minutes was low and crappy.



It wasn't just you. I experienced the exact same thing. Agreed, very annoying.


----------



## bill57

Can I punch in 5.1 on my remote and get 5.1? When the TV automatically programs the channels, none but 3.1 show up.


----------



## k2rj

Last night trying to watch the movie on WUAB-DT and the program audio was 10-15 dB down from the commercials/breaks - extremely annoying, had to use the mute button. My wife said the problem was similar, but not quite as bad on WKYC-DT. (OTOH, WOIO-DT's audio level control seems perfect lately.) Doesn't anybody from these stations actually watch them critically?


----------



## JJkizak

The audio level performance on digital channels has been pretty awful. (+-15 db)

JJK


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last night trying to watch the movie on WUAB-DT and the program audio was 10-15 dB down from the commercials/breaks - extremely annoying, had to use the mute button.



We've noticed this for a long time - not necessarily just on digital either. I think this is a marketing ploy. Make sure they have your attention for the most important part - SALES! We mute commercials too.


OK I can hear Hookbill - "Commercials? I don't watch commercials." Well, I don't have DVR equipment so I have to sit through them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It wasn't just you. I experienced the exact same thing. Agreed, very annoying.



Wonderful. Now I got something to really look forward to when I play that episode.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if it was just me but I had major clicking noise on WEWS for a few minutes during Lost... It was pretty annoying. And the audio before, after and during for 5 minutes was low and crappy.



Judging from the Lost thread on AVS it was a national HD thing. Apparently ABC had some issue on the HD feed, but no one had an explanation beyond it occurred in multiple markets & no one commented they didn't have it in HD.


Silver lining that it wasn't just WEWS messing up...


----------



## handsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?



Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *handsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill



According to the channel list ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet HDNet Movies and INHD are on the 5.00 tier, but who can really tell? Their lineup card still list INHD2 on 775 in my area. Someone did mention that they picked up Universal HD on a QAM tuner so that may be on the "free tier".


Hansworth, nice to see you again. The last time you were here you said we would get Universal HD and WNEO HD. This is the first time you've been off and it took 6 months to happen.


Your not loosing your touch, are you?


----------



## Inundated

As far as TWC/Cleveland QAM channels go, I haven't checked in a long time - I have an antenna hooked to my Westinghouse set and don't wanna go through the hassle of unplugging the cable from the SA8000, etc...


But last time I looked, all of the locals (3/5/8/19/25/43) that TWC carries in HD are in the clear on QAM, and should be picked up on that set. I assume 55 will be in the same boat whenever the folks on State Road get around to putting it up for good and offer it to cable.


I haven't seen ESPN2HD in the clear, but others have...but again, it's been a long time since I had. It wasn't in the clear back in the Adelphia days. TNTHD was in the clear when it went up, and Discovery HD always has been.


As for WNEO/WEAO HD - one reason it might not be up because it doesn't exist yet. OTA 49.1 is still taken by the SD "Create" service. I'm assuming TWCNEO won't add it on the Cleveland side until 45/49 get their HD service up again.


And finally, WEWS-DT has been pretty solid HD-wise that I've seen in the past day or so. Maybe they've finally swatted that bug. And to confirm an earlier message here, they DO run the 11 PM "NewsChannel 5 Nightbeat" repeat at 1 AM in HD. I'm watching it even as I type this...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We've noticed this for a long time - not necessarily just on digital either. I think this is a marketing ploy. Make sure they have your attention for the most important part - SALES! We mute commercials too.
> 
> 
> OK I can hear Hookbill - "Commercials? I don't watch commercials." Well, I don't have DVR equipment so I have to sit through them.



It's not a marketing ploy. If you had a VU meter on the audio output you would see that the commercials "peak" audio level is no higher than peaks during the program. The problem is there are low level sounds during the program that makes you want to listen at a louder level. Them when a commercial comes on it appears to be louder, since the commercial's audio is compressed.


If what you were watching was a feature film, the audio soundtrack is mixed with a greater dynamic range than programs and commercials produced for television. Now they could apply audio compression to the film's soundtrack, but then all of you with home theater systems would be complaining that the compressed sound lacked dynamics (i.e. a whisper is as loud as a shout).


This problem was addressed back in the analog days by Phillips/Magnavox's "Smart Sound" which was an automatic volume control circuit that "ducked" the commercial's audio level. What we need is a digitral equivelent of "Smart Sound".


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bill57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can I punch in 5.1 on my remote and get 5.1? When the TV automatically programs the channels, none but 3.1 show up.



You have to scan for chanels first. Don't confuse "virtural" channels with the actual rf frequency. "5.1" in Cleveland is on rf ch 15, in another town 5.1 could be on any channel. That is why I posted the rf channels for you. You need to be tuned to a UHF channel in the case of WEWS, even though the station is identified as "5.1".


If you scanned and only "3.1 & 3.2" showed up, you need a different antenna. "3.1" is actually rf ch 2 which is low-band VHF. Your scan should have also picked up "19.1 & 19.2" which is on rf ch 10 (high band VHF). The transmitters for these 2 stations are virturally next door to each other so the aim of the antenna is correct. If you scan failed to get 19 it's becuase the antenna is damaged and only picking up the low band signals. See my post above regarding indoor antennas and windows facing the Parma antenna farm.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ummm, maybe what you say is partially true Michael, and I'm not looking for a debate, but I'll just say this. One of my TVs is a Philips analog TV with... "Smart Sound". When watching on that tv, the sound during the commercials is still way louder than the loundest peak of the audio track during the tv show. Why don't they just lower the volume level of the commercials so that it (playing into your theory here) gives the illusion that it is at the same volume of the tv show?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ummm, maybe what you say is partially true Michael, and I'm not looking for a debate, but I'll just say this. One of my TVs is a Philips analog TV with... "Smart Sound". When watching on that tv, the sound during the commercials is still way louder than the loundest peak of the audio track during the tv show. Why don't they just lower the volume level of the commercials so that it (playing into your theory here) gives the illusion that it is at the same volume of the tv show?



The "correct" volume level is different for every viewer due to differences in audio systems being used to the size and acoustics of the room you are in. The only thing broadcasters have to do is keep the "peak" audio levels the same (which they do). The problem lies in programs that were originally mixed to be shown in theaters. I'm willing to bet a regular TV show (say "Uguly Betty" for an example) does not has the same problem when the commercials come on as a showing of "Jurassic Park" (an example chosen for it's extreme dymanic level) would. Can you imagine the audio being compressed on "Jurassic Park"? You might as well watch it on a 19" black & white set - the affect to the audio is just as severe.


I guess "Smart Sound", while the concept is good, in reality it must not work as well as advertized. This goes back to my statement that the room acoustics play a role in how loud a broadcast sounds.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The "correct" volume level is different for every viewer due to differences in audio systems being used to the size and acoustics of the room you are in. The only thing broadcasters have to do is keep the "peak" audio levels the same (which they do). The problem lies in programs that were originally mixed to be shown in theaters. I'm willing to bet a regular TV show (say "Uguly Betty" for an example) does not has the same problem when the commercials come on as a showing of "Jurassic Park" (an example chosen for it's extreme dymanic level) would. Can you imagine the audio being compressed on "Jurassic Park"? You might as well watch it on a 19" black & white set - the affect to the audio is just as severe.
> 
> 
> I guess "Smart Sound", while the concept is good, in reality it must not work as well as advertized. This goes back to my statement that the room acoustics play a role in how loud a broadcast sounds.




No offense, but your theories just aren't holding water my friend. First of all, I was never comparing a movie soudtrack to that of a commercial. I was comparing a tv show, which was meant to be shown on tv and not in a movie theater, to a commercial.

The size and dynamics of the room would have nothing to do with the comparison of the tv show to the commercial. They are both being played in the same room, so their enviroment so to speak, is the same.

Smart Sound does work, it's just that they (broadcasters) intentionally use such major fluctuations in the the sound output, that the volume regulator in the tv just can't handle it.

The fact of the matter is that broadcasters do intentionally make the commercials _appear_ to be louder. They do play by the rules, but then again they help make the rules. So it's kind of like the politicians who get to vote on wether or not they get a pay raise. (that's why they get paid so much)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No offense, but your theories just aren't holding water my friend. First of all, I was never comparing a movie soudtrack to that of a commercial. I was comparing a tv show, which was meant to be shown on tv and not in a movie theater, to a commercial.
> 
> The size and dynamics of the room would have nothing to do with the comparison of the tv show to the commercial. They are both being played in the same room, so their enviroment so to speak, is the same.
> 
> Smart Sound does work, it's just that they (broadcasters) intentionally use such major fluctuations in the the sound output, that the volume regulator in the tv just can't handle it.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that broadcasters do intentionally make the commercials _appear_ to be louder. They do play by the rules, but then again they help make the rules. So it's kind of like the politicians who get to vote on wether or not they get a pay raise. (that's why they get paid so much)



I tend to agree with Smarty Pants and I'm going to use a totally different scenario.


When I watch MLB Extra Innings on some games I have to really crank up the rear sound so I can get that "ball park" feeling. Sometimes as high as +10. But as soon as a commercial comes on, those back speakers start blaring.


I beleive I do have a setting that is suppose to do smart balance but I don't see it working like I would like.


Here's another example. Law & Order on NBC. Dolby 5.1 Pick one. Again for good rear sound I have to crank up the rear speakers. Go to a commercial and talk about loud!


It's an old gimmick and television continues to use it.


Oh and since WEWS is 24/7 Dolby 5.1 that's another good place to see the sound increases.


----------



## paule123

Re the audio discussion, I just googled this:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...12.10.03.shtml 


"Here's the deal. Alert readers know we've got audio levels problems in TV land. I've written about it, and so have lots of others. The problem is simple and obvious-audio levels vary widely from channel to channel and from time to time on any given channel, thereby unduly annoying viewers. There's more, but this is the gist of it.


How bad is the problem? I informally measured an 18 dB range over 100 channels from my friendly local cable provider (Charter Communications). Michael Guthrie of Harmonic, Inc., has measured a +/- 15 dB range. Jeffrey Riedmiller, Steve Lyman and Charles Robinson of Dolby Laboratories have measured a 16 dB range.


I think a 3 dB range would be excellent performance and 6 dB would be satisfactory, so, the ranges I've cited are, by comparison, really quite bad. Jeffrey Riedmiller thinks they are getting worse (since digital and analog services often co-exist on today's cable systems). "


"Now, when Dolby ships one of its encoders (such as the DP569), the "default" dialnorm setting is -27 dBFS. Interestingly, when Jeffrey Riedmiller and his associates at Dolby did a study of dialnorm settings provided by various digital services available in the San Francisco bay area, they found that all the 13 digital services they studied had an indicated dialnorm value of -27 dBFS, while only one of the services had an actual dialogue level of -27 dBFS. This suggests, quite convincingly, that we are all just leaving our dialnorm settings in the default position."


----------



## Michael P 2341

Since I have yet to get a DD 5.1 set-up, my observations have been based on the 2 channel decoded to analog output of my TV. I'm surprised that the commercials pump so much info into the rears of a 5.1 signal, unless they are just faking 5.1 using a 2 channel mix and pumping the same track into the rears as the front. If that is indeed occurring, that would be at least part of the probelm we are discussing.


As far as fluctuations from channel to channel, and within programs, my biggest pet-peeve are the "local avails" that both cable and satellite have used (local insertion commercials). The audio levels of the inserted spots never match either the program or the network's spots. The equivilent local avails on the local stations do not vary as much.


Some of the "blame" has to go to the producers of the commercial spots. They employ so much compression to begin with, and then the broadcaster has to add some more just befoe it gets transmitted, the end reslut is close to what AM radio did in the 60's to top-40 music, compressed so severely that the VU meter stands still at the maximum peak level.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some of the "blame" has to go to the producers of the commercial spots. They employ so much compression to begin with, and then the broadcaster has to add some more just befoe it gets transmitted, the end reslut is close to what AM radio did in the 60's to top-40 music, compressed so severely that the VU meter stands still at the maximum peak level.



What Michael said. Coimmercial audio tends to be pretty compressed to increase the _apparent_ loudness without going "into the red." It's a trick that's been used since the days of Ron Popeil and his Veg-o-Matic. On the other hand, the live audio from a ballpark is only going to hit a limiter somewhere in the broadcast chain to keep everything legal. The dynamic range of the live feed isn't _deliberately_ compressed, but the commercials are.


Having said all that, there's no excuse for leaving the equipment at the factory defaults! The entire chain needs to be calibrated periodically. That's why bars & tone were invented, after all...


----------



## JJkizak

The +-15db swing in audio levels was measured with my SPL meter. The sum total of it all is that the audio levels being transmitted OTA are a disaster. The analog channel levels are just fine while the digital channels are all over the place level wise. 43.2 tube are about -25 db down consistantly. 49.1, 49.2, & 49.3 are pretty good. 8.1 is the same as analog, 3.1 is about -15db down, 5.1 is down a bit, 19.1 is a bit hot, 19.2 is hot, and 61.1 is really hot. I am not talking dynamic range, I am not talking room acoustics, I am not talking compression. But I am talking what my SPL meter and my ears say.

JJK


----------



## Inundated

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: I just read that WKYC/3 will have FOUR pre-season Browns games in HD this year, and SportsTime Ohio will replay those games (also in HD).


Given how bad the Browns are, there may be more HD pre-season games on WKYC, than CBS regular season games in HD all year!


----------



## Inundated

And for what it's worth, I haven't seen HD blocking on WEWS-DT for a couple of days now. Maybe they have something fixed?


We now return you to your Audio Level Discussion


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The +-15db swing in audio levels was measured with my SPL meter. The sum total of it all is that the audio levels being transmitted OTA are a disaster. The analog channel levels are just fine while the digital channels are all over the place level wise. 43.2 tube are about -25 db down consistantly. 49.1, 49.2, & 49.3 are pretty good. 8.1 is the same as analog, 3.1 is about -15db down, 5.1 is down a bit, 19.1 is a bit hot, 19.2 is hot, and 61.1 is really hot. I am not talking dynamic range, I am not talking room acoustics, I am not talking compression. But I am talking what my SPL meter and my ears say.
> 
> JJK




Wow, I don't have any audio meters but from what I hear out of my Home Theater System and what you have listed, I'd say your on the money.


My back speakers will distort if volume level is 2 high. So when I watch WOIO on Dolby pro logic 2 I need to back them down to -2 decibles. On 8.1 I can either let them be or go up +1 decible. WEWS is now Dolby 5.1 and I usually raise the back about +3 decibles. And WKYC is the strangest. Sometimes I have to raise the back speakers a full +10 but other shows, like Las Vegas I can leave at 0 decible. When I watch baseball on WKYC I usually add +4 db. It's really all over the place, but it's never anything I have to bring down.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *handsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill



I have a cable card and I now get ESPNHD and ESPN2HD in the clear, I am not getting Universal HD. My title does show UNVHD on 775. I am not on the $5 tier.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And for what it's worth, I haven't seen HD blocking on WEWS-DT for a couple of days now. Maybe they have something fixed?
> 
> 
> We now return you to your Audio Level Discussion



It's a temporary fix with a permanent fix coming. Hopefully the "temporary" fix will keep things working OK for the short term.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a cable card and I now get ESPNHD and ESPN2HD in the clear, I am not getting Universal HD. My title does show UNVHD on 775. I am not on the $5 tier.



It seems to depend on where you live, and like I said their lineup card needs updating. I'll bet if you talk to 2 CSR's you will get two different responses.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did D* stop carrying STO in HD? it does not surprise me i was just wondering and did anyone notice that they HAD channel 77 set up for National Geo and that fell by the way side i really hate D*



The HD games are on D* Channel 96. Of course, since the Indians have barely been home so far, there have been very few. The program guide already shows the Wednesday game with Texas. The previous series was never in the program guide, you just had to tune to the channel.


----------



## bill57

MP, Thanks for your replys!


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: I just read that WKYC/3 will have FOUR pre-season Browns games in HD this year, and SportsTime Ohio will replay those games (also in HD).
> 
> 
> Given how bad the Browns are, there may be more HD pre-season games on WKYC, than CBS regular season games in HD all year!




lol... That's funny. But I think the Browns are going to be awesome this year...


----------



## frkingz

Received this reply to my email questioning them about it. Dated 04-17


"Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.



In order to resolve an issue with subscribers experiencing errors getting to their on demand services, we needed to rollback the upgrade that was installed to a previous version of the box software. We are planning an upgrade to our servers during the early morning hours within the next few days. Once the servers are upgraded, we will be able to roll out the box software with the new DVR functions. This is a temporary setback and we appreciate you continued patience as we strive to make your entertainment service better.



I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.




Sincerely,



Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frkingz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Received this reply to my email questioning them about it. Dated 04-17
> 
> 
> "Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
> 
> 
> 
> In order to resolve an issue with subscribers experiencing errors getting to their on demand services, we needed to rollback the upgrade that was installed to a previous version of the box software. We are planning an upgrade to our servers during the early morning hours within the next few days. Once the servers are upgraded, we will be able to roll out the box software with the new DVR functions. This is a temporary setback and we appreciate you continued patience as we strive to make your entertainment service better.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> 
> Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"



Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> lol... That's funny. But I think the Browns are going to be awesome this year...



Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## icicle22

OK. I know I am a loner out here in NW Stark County with Massillon cable. But....if there is anybody out there.....I found something promising for us Tribe Fans. Despite the fact that every single month when I go in and pay my bill or pay over the phone, they tell me nothing new in the HD channels is planned ( I ask about STO and NFL network religously) I discovered a clue!


The lowest channel in the HD tier is 603 which is wkyc out of Cleveland. Normally when I hit the channel down button it jumps into the Pay-Per View area in the 400s. Well it went to channel 602 and it said "off the air" in the info box. I thought "WTF?" and looked to the channel area and lo and behold


*"STO-HD"* (angelic choir here for emphasis)



I scan through the next 7 days on the guide and it always says off-air. So....this is a very promising sign for me....right? Surely they would not have added this to the guide if it wasn't close to going live....I hope.


If you look back in this thread you will see I am thinking of switching over to DirectTV as I really want Tribe games in HD again. But this may save me from going with the inferior HDlite of satellite after all.


I will say I am impressed with Massillon Cable reliability considering they are a very small cable company. They are just a llittle slower to get new channels than the rest. They are actually more reliable than TWC was for me.


Peace!


----------



## jtscherne

The next HD game on STO is Wednesday against Texas. So see if it shows up then.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it.



But you don't have an 8300 so you _won't_ see it!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But you don't have an 8300 so you _won't_ see it!



True. I'm sure you will be more then happy to let me know however.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> *"STO-HD"* (angelic choir here for emphasis)
> 
> 
> 
> I scan through the next 7 days on the guide and it always says off-air. So....this is a very promising sign for me....right? Surely they would not have added this to the guide if it wasn't close to going live....I hope.



Don't worry about the guide data being inaccurate. On my WOW cable, the guide data for STOHD and FSNOH-HD often says "Off air" even when something is going on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't worry about the guide data being inaccurate. On my WOW cable, the guide data for STOHD and FSNOH-HD often says "Off air" even when something is going on.



Same here. The Tribe game on Sunday on digital channel 179 STO said "Off Air" and the game was on.


Some days they even have SD games on the HD BON channel.....which is sweet because it's in Dolby 5.1. But you never know, you just have to look.


----------



## bassguitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it.



As an aside I have been way more audio sync problems on various channels since my box was unupgraded.

Dave


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bill57* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MP, Thanks for your replys!



Your welcome! Let us know if you tried another antenna and if you were able to scan in more channels.


----------



## hookbill

WEWS HD News voice is out of synch again today.


I really wish they would fix this. I can't stand FOX 8 in the afternoon because of all the AI talk and WOIO isn't in HD, not that I would prefer that either.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> lol... That's funny. But I think the Browns are going to be awesome this year...



OH....They'll be AWESOME alright. They've been shown for over 30 years by the Steelers and lately the Ravens (the REAL Browns) how to concentrate the draft on the O-line in order to run/control the ball. They've just never figured that out. I see 5-11 tops.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Apartment in-house antennas are not reliable, especially in the last 15 years since most people subscribe to cable. I bet the antenna is damaged and/or the lead in is broken somewhere.
> 
> .



Thats the attiude & especially when the Cable company cuts the common antenna feed making it unusable... just keep paying them & complaining about rising rates! LOL


So BNX is doing testing on 30?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Steve, yes....
> 
> 
> TWC was in the neighborhood yesterday, although I don't have cable, I had to go over & re-program my neighbors set (Westinghouse), the locals are on 83, 84, & 85 subs now, don't remember exactly but they are on sub numbers 10 & below... strange though another WUAB HD (with info) autoprogrammed itself on 270, Audio but no video & The Tube repeats itself on 500... The Music is on 80 & 93's subs. Before the Auto Program 3 was on 84-53 & 5 was on 84-51
> 
> 
> Strange so many scrambled digitals programmed them self in on the auto program... it will take hours to delete them only for TWC to come back & change them....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> & you PAY good money for this aggravation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Edit: I found my list I scratched out...
> 
> 
> 83-2 (Fox 8)
> 
> 84-3 (43)
> 
> 84-10 (ABC 5)
> 
> 85-1 (CBS 19)
> 
> 85-3 (NBC 3)
> 
> Music Choice 80-21 to 40 & 93-nn
> 
> 
> The Techs at TWC also took the liberties to cut her incoming Dish cables installed by the previous owner rendering them useless.... smart business sense I guess!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> _



Happened again, My neighbor called to say Fox 8 is gone from 83-2, & another was moved to 83-4, I decided to do a reprogram from -80-90, seemed to lose EVERYTHING now, though Fox 8 went to 213 (I think) & 5 HD went to 201, all the rest are gone...., they will nort program back in & the set can't find them now.


Hey, I have an Idea, why don't TWC do this logically 3 on 83-3, 8 on 88-8, 5 on 83-5.. etc.


Where did TWC hide em now? I'm getting sick of this. Glad I personally don't have cable. (Of course I don't have DSL, a Cell etc either)


----------



## hookbill

I know some of you have seen the ad's on television about Ohio's cable companies having monopolies. I live in an area where I won't see FIOS or AT&T's cable. I'm stuck with Time Warner and they are free to charge me what they want. My only other solution would be satellite but as many of you know there is a line of site problem for me so that is not an option.


So I'm going to put this link here for those of you who are interested. I'd sure like to see competition for my cable dollars and better selection. a 28% and more decrease in my bill would be great, plus better service.


For more information:

http://www.wewantchoiceohio.com/index.htm


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know some of you have seen the ad's on television about Ohio's cable companies having monopolies. I live in an area where I won't see FIOS or AT&T's cable. I'm stuck with Time Warner and they are free to charge me what they want. My only other solution would be satellite but as many of you know there is a line of site problem for me so that is not an option.
> 
> 
> So I'm going to put this link here for those of you who are interested. I'd sure like to see competition for my cable dollars and better selection. a 28% and more decrease in my bill would be great, plus better service.
> 
> 
> For more information:
> 
> http://www.wewantchoiceohio.com/index.htm



I originally thought this was a great thing that was going to happen to Ohio until I dug a little further and read countless newspaper articles on the subject...


I urge people to not take this bill at face value. Senate Bill 117 is not really in our best interest. It promotes state controlling of all cable TV and broadband services and is being lobbied by AT&T. The Washington Post along with other news outlets in areas where similar bills have passed have proven wrong the notion of lower cable bills. Do you think cable companies can't wait to come in and give you cheaper rates? The cable conglomerate will stick together to avoid any price wars as it would be in the best interest of all of them.


Passing of this legislation would also give the cable and telecom companies the rights to put large utility cabinets for highspeed internet and cable in anyones tree lawn they see fit. I know I don't want one of those things in front of my house!


Not to mention the fact that it will eliminate all public access, educational and government channels from your communities. Don't let big business take away our right for local communication. All city municipalities including Cleveland and all the neighboring suburbs have passed or in the process of passing council resolutions against the efforts of SB 117. Your school districts are doing the same.


Please take time to visit some of these sites as well:
http://www.localvoiceohio.org/index2.shtml 
http://saveaccess.org/ 


Cheers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I originally thought this was a great thing that was going to happen to Ohio until I dug a little further and read countless newspaper articles on the subject...
> 
> 
> I urge people to not take this bill at face value. Senate Bill 117 is not really in our best interest. It promotes state controlling of all cable TV and broadband services and is being lobbied by AT&T. The Washington Post along with other news outlets in areas where similar bills have passed have proven wrong the notion of lower cable bills. Do you think cable companies can't wait to come in and give you cheaper rates? The cable conglomerate will stick together to avoid any price wars as it would be in the best interest of all of them.
> 
> 
> Passing of this legislation would also give the cable and telecom companies the rights to put large utility cabinets for highspeed internet and cable in anyones tree lawn they see fit. I know I don't want one of those things in front of my house!
> 
> 
> Not to mention the fact that it will eliminate all public access, educational and government channels from your communities. Don't let big business take away our right for local communication. All city municipalities including Cleveland and all the neighboring suburbs have passed or in the process of passing council resolutions against the efforts of SB 117. Your school districts are doing the same.
> 
> 
> Please take time to visit some of these sites as well:
> http://www.localvoiceohio.org/index2.shtml
> http://saveaccess.org/
> 
> 
> Cheers.




Well Rob your entitled to your opinions but after going to both links I think you would have been better suited to leave the second link off.


Those boxes you are talking about are also being built by VERIZON and they are not the most unattractive thing in the world. I already have boxes on my property as it stands now for both cable and electrical. The part that was funny was about it being a fire hazard. Talk about trying to install fear and propaganda, that certainly was an attempt to do so. Remember how government told you that raising the minimum wage would mean you would lose privacy?










Second we've already deregulated cable and it didn't do what it was suppose to do. In fact we were better off when cable was regulated, same as we were better off when our utilities were regulated. And local government saying this is a bad idea I tend to find laughable as well, when did they ever want to do anything beneficial for the working person?


I do support your right to your opinion however and I'm glad you posted your links. People should see both sides of the story.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I urge people to not take this bill at face value.



This is good advice, because usually when there's a huge PR campaign on a given issue like this, there are LOBBYISTS behind it. "Follow the money". There's almost always a hidden agenda.


Citizen groups that are truly out for the public interest usually don't have the money or resources to blanket the airwaves with slick marketing campaigns.


Do I sound a bit cynical?










You guys do realize Cleveland is one of the few markets in the country that has two cable companies competing with each other, Wide Open West and TWC. At least where I live, I have "choice".


----------



## HD MM

Hookster,


I would've thought you would be against cable competition. We all know that the introduction to Fiber will mean the death of cable and eventually TiVo.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those boxes you are talking about are also being built by VERIZON and they are not the most unattractive thing in the world.



Are you kidding me? I don't wan't these things on my lawn! Imagine what they would do to the retail value of your house! If a potential buyer has the choice between 2 similar homes with 1 having a huge ugly box on the lawn, I guarantee they're purchasing the box-less home every time!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me? I don't wan't these things on my lawn! Imagine what they would do to the retail value of your house! If a potential buyer has the choice between 2 similar homes with 1 having a huge ugly box on the lawn, I guarantee they're purchasing the box-less home every time!



It looked better to me then the rest of the property did.










Edited to add: OK in that picture it doesn't look great. But hey it's not like they are going to stick one of those in front of everyone's house. It's just one unlucky sap who usually lives on the corner. All you have to do is hope your not that unlucky sap.










In my case if they did stick it where my current boxes were it really wouldn't make much difference. there is about 50 yards between where the boxes are and where my house is. It's actually right on the property line.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me? I don't wan't these things on my lawn! Imagine what they would do to the retail value of your house! If a potential buyer has the choice between 2 similar homes with 1 having a huge ugly box on the lawn, I guarantee they're purchasing the box-less home every time!



Can I put some steaks in there during the winter??


Seriously though, I support opportunities for competition, but the things that this state and it's citizens will lose with this bill the way it is written NOW is not worth it. As noted above, this bill has been lobbied for by AT&T. Don't be confused by this "astroturf group" (TV4US) which acts as they are behind us consumers. While they want to be able to provide television service, they oppose net neutrality to allow other companies offer us cheaper highspeed connections.


I trust my local government before I ever trust big business to lend me a helping hand!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookster,
> 
> 
> I would've thought you would be against cable competition. We all know that the introduction to Fiber will mean the death of cable and eventually TiVo.



Whops, I almost missed this post. People with the S3 are quite able to hook up to VERIZON Fios. However since Verizon FIOS does not support cable cards TiVo will not support their S3 with Verizon. But Verizon does use cable cards, they just don't support it.










Sounds crazy doesn't it?


One other point. I'm not saying that I would use AT&T or Verizon. I would just like to say to my cable company, "bring down the price, your not the only game in town anymore."


Get it?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One other point. I'm not saying that I would use AT&T or Verizon. I would just like to say to my cable company, "bring down the price, your not the only game in town anymore."
> 
> 
> Get it?



There's a lot more at stake than saving a few bucks. In fact, that tag-line may be the biggest misconception. This bill is not in the public's best interest. Trust me.

Read the following public interest letter regarding the pending 117 bill


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's a lot more at stake than saving a few bucks. In fact, that tag-line may be the biggest misconception. This bill is not in the public's best interest. Trust me.
> 
> Read the following public interest letter regarding the pending 117 bill




I will give more creedence to something in The Washington Post then the Cleveland Plain Dealer.....That's because I disagree with the Plain Dealer frequently. And I admit that I was more absorbed by the opportunity to bring down cable prices. And Rob I acknowledge that you also mentioned the Post as well.


Perhaps there is more to this then I saw initially. I will reconsider my position on this matter.


Still you have to admit. The link with the box on fire was pretty funny.


----------



## Michael P 2341

No competition to cable???


What about WOW? (Yes I know that they are only in a few select areas)

What about the 2 satellite services?

What about OTA?


This bill is not in our best interest!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No competition to cable???
> 
> 
> What about WOW? (Yes I know that they are only in a few select areas)
> 
> What about the 2 satellite services?
> 
> What about OTA?
> 
> 
> This bill is not in our best interest!



1.You answered your first question.









2.Not for me. I've got trees. Lots of trees.

3.Are you kidding me? No The Shield, 4400, Nip/Tuck,Dirt, The Riches, Rescue Me, Eureka, and others. Not an option.


You guys are going to laugh but as I was cleaning my bird cages about half an hour ago I read a very interesting article on this bill in Sunday's Plain Dealer.....That's how I read my paper, while I lay it on the bottom of the birds cage.







The article was neutral but it did indicate big money on the side of AT&T and also that Time Warner was in cahoots with them. That's something to worry about alright.


----------



## ClevelandRob

It seems like a no-brainer in theory... but once you read the fine print, there are some big issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately all we can do is write our local legislators and hope that they can see through the smoke. There is a constant recurring theme across the country with this issue and the opposition is not without warrant. Those who oppose it aren't trying to get everyone to pay high cable bills! They have reasons....


Anywhoo... I really didn't want to turn this into a political discussion that is why I haven't said anything on the subject until now... soooooo... when the hell is WBNX gonna go live again?!?!


----------



## KenNEO

I've got Massillon cable too. Do you think we will see our first game on 602 tomorrow? Hope so.


The STO schedule says Title: MLB: Cleveland Indians Baseball Cleveland vs. Texas Rangers (Live) HDTV, Date: April 25, 2007, Time: 7:00 PM


----------



## icicle22

I had called Massilon Cable to order a new digital converter box for my daughters TV (non-HD) and I planned on asking them while I had them on the phone. Before I even got to a live person the recording said "Cleveland Indians Home games now available in HD on channel 602". Yeah!!!! No stinking D* for me now!


I checked the guide and it is listed now and it is also listed on the Indians Take2 the next morning so even the replay is in HD.


I have bugged MCTV since I moved here last August and they just kept saying that they weren'y going to add it anytime soon. Still I asked every month.


When I told the guy on the phone he said "see, we really do listen to what our customers want." Even though it sounds like a line of BS, I have to admit it is cool to call your cable company customer service and always get the same 2-3 guys. I actually remember them and they remember me. One of the benefits of being a small company.


Peace! Tomorrow at 7pm I will be in Basebal Nirvana again. At least it feels like ot for as long as I have been bugging them!






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenNEO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got Massillon cable too. Do you think we will see our first game on 602 tomorrow? Hope so.
> 
> 
> The STO schedule says Title: MLB: Cleveland Indians Baseball Cleveland vs. Texas Rangers (Live) HDTV, Date: April 25, 2007, Time: 7:00 PM


----------



## rlockshin

Direct TV also shows the Indians in HD. The Texas game is listed in the guide


----------



## HD MM

When is E* going to get STO-HD? I am so jealous of you folks who do get it. Watching the Tribe in lowly SD is almost unbearable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When is E* going to get STO-HD? I am so jealous of you folks who do get it. Watching the Tribe in lowly SD is almost unbearable.



And you've called them how many times requesting it?










If you want to see results, sometimes you have to grab the bull by the horns.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And you've called them how many times requesting it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to see results, sometimes you have to grab the bull by the horns.



I've voiced my request plenty of times. I am trying to wait patiently now.










What is the over/under on which of the following DBS anticipations will happen first?........


-E* Receiving HD LIL's/RSN's or D* receiving 100+ HD channels?


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've voiced my request plenty of times. I am trying to wait patiently now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the over/under on which of the following DBS anticipations will happen first?........
> 
> 
> -E* Receiving HD LIL's/RSN's or D* receiving 100+ HD channels?


_Answer is..._


E* giving Cleveland our HD LiLs & RSNs!


Only because D* are stupidly promoting 100+ HD channels even though there are less than half that even available! They have back-peddled a little bit by now advertising the "capacity for 100+ national HD channels"...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When is E* going to get STO-HD? I am so jealous of you folks who do get it. Watching the Tribe in lowly SD is almost unbearable.



Have you sent e-mail to E*? Here is their address: *[email protected]*


BTW: STO on E* in SD is worse than "lowly". I don't even have an HDTV set yet and on the days when there are many games going on simultaneosly they have to crank the stat-mux (digital video compression) so high the SD picture is as bad as your average streaming video feed form 5 years ago










How good is the STO in SD on D* or cable?


----------



## kramerboy

Hey, WBNX is back on the air! With 2 sub channels! Nothing broadcasting on 55.2 or 55.3 though.


55.1 is now labled as WBNX-HD

55.2 is WBNX-DT

55.3 is WBNX-3


Signal strength down here in Orrville is pretty solid from almost 40 miles away.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you sent e-mail to E*? Here is their address: *[email protected]*



Yes. I was told last October, that by the first quarter of 2007 LIL's and RSN's in Cleveland should be up. I have since followed up and received no response.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW: STO on E* in SD is worse than "lowly".



I agree. During last night's game, I could barely make out the score at the bottom right hand corner of the screen. Unacceptable.


----------



## dleising

I was disappointed that tonights Cavs game was not on HD. Well, It was, but it was on NBA TV. I tuned into inHD, which carries the HD feed for NBA TV, and was happy to see the pregame in HD. Then at 8:00, TWC flipped the switch, and that was the end of that. FSN Ohio doesnt have the game in HD either. I find that surprising because the playoffs are in full swing...


I dont care what channel it is on, I just wan't to watch the Cavs in HD!


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, WBNX is back on the air! With 2 sub channels! Nothing broadcasting on 55.2 or 55.3 though.
> 
> 
> 55.1 is now labled as WBNX-HD
> 
> 55.2 is WBNX-DT
> 
> 55.3 is WBNX-3
> 
> 
> Signal strength down here in Orrville is pretty solid from almost 40 miles away.



I was also picking up a solid signal for WBNX here in North Canton last night just using my indoor amplified rabbit ears. Can't wait to see Veronica Mars in HD.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can't wait to see Veronica Mars in HD.



This is the smartest thing I have EVER read in this forum!!!


----------



## TLaz

The EPG in my Dish receiver 622 does not show the programming data for WBNX-DT as it does for the other OTA stations. Does anyone else have this problem? I called DiSH about the lack of EPG guide info on WBNX-DT and they said it was their first complaint.


----------



## HD MM

CW prime time shows available in High Def:


Gilmore Girls - HD-Stereo

Veronica Mars - HD & 5.1









One Tree Hill - HD & 5.1

Smallville - HD-Stereo

Supernatural - HD &5.1

Everybody Hates Chris - HD & 5.1

All of Us - HD & Stereo

Girlfriends - HD & 5.1

The Game - HD & 5.1


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The EPG in my Dish receiver 622 does not show the programming data for WBNX-DT as it does for the other OTA stations. Does anyone else have this problem? I called DiSH about the lack of EPG guide info on WBNX-DT and they said it was their first complaint.



Noticed the same thing last night. Must be because the channel is new.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CW prime time shows available in High Def:
> 
> 
> Gilmore Girls - HD-Stereo
> 
> Veronica Mars - HD & 5.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One Tree Hill - HD & 5.1
> 
> Smallville - HD-Stereo
> 
> Supernatural - HD &5.1
> 
> Everybody Hates Chris - HD & 5.1
> 
> All of Us - HD & Stereo
> 
> Girlfriends - HD & 5.1
> 
> The Game - HD & 5.1



Let's hope they feed us the HD broadcast. Their last test of OTA a few weeks ago only got us the SD feed upconverted to 1080i.


Perhaps now that the PSIP for WBNX lists 55.1 as WBNX-HD, we will actually get the broadcast in HD.


I agree, it would be awesome to see Veronica Mars in HD for the first time.


----------



## ClevelandRob

Veronica returns next week May 1st. I don't watch any other CW programming, but I may have to start... I do watch a lot of Smallville reruns on HDNet. Everybody Hates Chris is supposed to be good.


As far the program guide info on E*, it should update in a day or two as it does guide updates.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Veronica returns next week May 1st. I don't watch any other CW programming, but I may have to start... I do watch a lot of Smallville reruns on HDNet. Everybody Hates Chris is supposed to be good.
> 
> 
> As far the program guide info on E*, it should update in a day or two as it does guide updates.



I never got into Veronica. I suppose she's legal now but come on, she still just a little girl.


Smallville continues to be good.


Everybody Hates Chris the only sitcom I watch. Always funny.


----------



## dunner

Is anybody else getting intermittent sound stutters on STO-HD? Symptomatically, it'll be like a half second of no sound, followed by normal sound, then a 1/2 second of stutter. It seems to be happening once every 2-3 minutes.


I'm not seeing this on any other channels. I'm on Cox with an SA8300.


----------



## GregF2

Yes - I think they must be having HD problems on STO. Sound last night was just so-so and so was the picture. I am in Amherst, OH, which is the old Comcast, but now TWC network.


This may have also been posted, but why did TWC remove Fox Sports Net HD channel. I thought it used to be where they just put ESPN2 HD, but now no FSNHD, which would rather have. I think the conversion from comcast to TWC has been terrible. HD lineup is pretty sad too, sure wish it would get better.


----------



## mavtv

According to the radio-info boards, WOAC's sister station KCNS has added 3 hours of Chinese language programming in Mandarin, under the "Sino TV" (華語電視) banner daily from 7 PM to 10 PM.


This is from multicultural's offical website: With the newly acquired television stations by MRBI's television group, Sino Television is expanding its broadcast coverage to reach Chinese television program audience in the major U.S. cities.


In addition WOAC, has changed its line up a bit. New zoo revue airs MON-FRI at 7:00 AM and on Mon ask Gilby is on ar 7:30 AM and public affairs airs Tues at 7:30 AM. They also added shepard's chapel MON-FRI at 6 AM (according to titan tv). Prior to a few weeks ago, they had a new zoo revue/ask gilby/ public affairs marathon Wed from 7 to 10:30 AM.Could we be seeing a home-shopper/paid program/infomerical/ethic station on 67 in the coming weeks?




http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index....c,69488.0.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCNS-TV 

http://www.mrbi.net/tvgroup.htm 

http://www.mrbi.net/sinotv.htm 

http://www.mingpaosf.com/htm/News/20070406/sf1a.htm 


Translation of above page:

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, WBNX is back on the air! With 2 sub channels! Nothing broadcasting on 55.2 or 55.3 though.
> 
> 
> 55.1 is now labled as WBNX-HD
> 
> 55.2 is WBNX-DT
> 
> 55.3 is WBNX-3
> 
> 
> Signal strength down here in Orrville is pretty solid from almost 40 miles away.



Could retro television network be in the sub channels future? RTN, which is owned by Equity Broadcasting is going national on July 7th with at least 55 hours of programming from CBS. Their network website redirects to WNGS in Buffalo and last fall WNGS streamed their station on-line inculding Indian's games from Ch3/STO in which they are the Buffalo station that carries it. They have gotten rid of the stream and from what I have seen it is a pretty good station.


The programming fits WBNX since in the past they aired show of the shows RTN is planning to air and it gives them a second demo to go after (cw younger,RTN older) and since from my understanding RTN is barter, it would be alot cheaper than going out and buying the rights on an individual basis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_Television_Network 

http://rtn11.com/ 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_Broadcasting 

http://www.ebcorp.net/press/6596117.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mavtv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to the radio-info boards, WOAC's sister station KCNS has added 3 hours of Chinese language programming in Mandarin, under the "Sino TV" (華語電視) banner daily from 7 PM to 10 PM.
> 
> 
> This is from multicultural's offical website: With the newly acquired television stations by MRBI's television group, Sino Television is expanding its broadcast coverage to reach Chinese television program audience in the major U.S. cities.
> 
> 
> In addition WOAC, has changed its line up a bit. New zoo revue airs MON-FRI at 7:00 AM and on Tues Zebby's Zoo is on ar 7:30 AM and public affirs airs Weds at 7:30 AM. They also added shepard's chapel MON-FRI at 6 AM (according to titan tv). Could we be seeing a home-shopper/paid program/infomerical/ethic station on 67 in the coming weeks?
> 
> http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index....c,69488.0.html
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCNS-TV
> 
> http://www.mrbi.net/tvgroup.htm
> 
> http://www.mrbi.net/sinotv.htm



I know we get off topic from time to time but does this have anything remotely to do with HD, cable or satellite?


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know we get off topic from time to time but does this have anything remotely to do with HD, cable or satellite?



If multicultural does HD then soon there will be a new HD player in town then yes it does and if they don't do HD, then CABLE/SAT PROVIDERS WILL FIND A REASON TO DROP IT SINCE IT DOES NOT SERVE THE COMMUNITY. IN ADDITION SINCE CABLE OPERATORS CARRY WOAC AND WE TALK ABOUT CABLE, IT THEN WOULD BE CONSIDERED A CABLE CHANNEL, SO IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A TOPIC.


Since WOAC is carried on most CABLE/SATELLITE SYSTEMS DUE TO MUST CARRY, AND THEY ARE ABLE TO TRANSMITT A HD SIGNAL AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THE OWNERS FEELS IS BEST, THEY MAY ACTUALLY DO SO. UNTIL THEIR FINAL PLANS ARE ACTUALLY KNOWN ABOUT WHAT AND IN WHAT METHOD THEY WILL TRANSMITT (HD,SD) IT IS A FAIR DISCUSSION TOPIC SINCE THEY MAY DECIDE IT IS A NEED AND COST EFFECTIVE TO TRANSMITT WOAC'S PROGRAMS IN HD.


BESIDES WOAC AND THERE PENDING PROGRAMMING CHANGE HAS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE BEFORE AND SINCE IT DOES INVOLVE DIGITAL TELEVISION (HIGH DEF IS AN ENHANCED VARIATION OF DIUGITAL TELEVISION) IT FITS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mavtv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If multicultural does HD then soon there will be a new HD player in town then yes it does and if they don't do HD, then CABLE/SAT PROVIDERS WILL FIND A REASON TO DROP IT SINCE IT DOES NOT SERVE THE COMMUNITY. IN ADDITION SINCE CABLE OPERATORS CARRY WOAC AND WE TALK ABOUT CABLE, IT THEN WOULD BE CONSIDERED A CABLE CHANNEL, SO IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A TOPIC.
> 
> 
> Since WOAC is carried on most CABLE/SATELLITE SYSTEMS DUE TO MUST CARRY, AND THEY ARE ABLE TO TRANSMITT A HD SIGNAL AND DEPENDING ON WHAT THE OWNERS FEELS IS BEST, THEY MAY ACTUALLY DO SO. UNTIL THEIR FINAL PLANS ARE ACTUALLY KNOWN ABOUT WHAT AND IN WHAT METHOD THEY WILL TRANSMITT (HD,SD) IT IS A FAIR DISCUSSION TOPIC SINCE THEY MAY DECIDE IT IS A NEED AND COST EFFECTIVE TO TRANSMITT WOAC'S PROGRAMS IN HD.
> 
> 
> BESIDES WOAC AND THERE PENDING PROGRAMMING CHANGE HAS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE BEFORE AND SINCE IT DOES INVOLVE DIGITAL TELEVISION (HIGH DEF IS AN ENHANCED VARIATION OF DIUGITAL TELEVISION) IT FITS.



Wow, it seems like I really struck a nerve. Since I am totally unfamiliar with this channel I took a look at my guide to see what exactly I was missing. It appears at least at this time that it carrys infomercials until around midnight then they have some sort of jewlery display which I'm sure my wife would be interested in.


I want to thank you for setting me straight and for giving me this important information as to why you brought this up and we are discussing it now. You're absolutely right any station that "may" become multicultural and "may someday" go digital and even HD is important information.


Do you have a manefest you want us to read too?


----------



## uplate

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask but I need help... I started trying to upgrade to HD cable with Time Warner in the Cleveland suburbs (former Adelphia area) in early February and was put on a waiting list for an HD DVR and told two to three weeks. I'm *still* on the list after two and half months. Anyone else in the same situation? Any suggestions on how I can expedite the process? I've called a couple of times, but they don't know anything and won't give me the number of the department that handles the waiting list. Is there a local office I can call?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uplate* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask but I need help... I started trying to upgrade to HD cable with Time Warner in the Cleveland suburbs (former Adelphia area) in early February and was put on a waiting list for an HD DVR and told two to three weeks. I'm *still* on the list after two and half months. Anyone else in the same situation? Any suggestions on how I can expedite the process? I've called a couple of times, but they don't know anything and won't give me the number of the department that handles the waiting list. Is there a local office I can call?



I don't know what area you're in but there are several offices in the area where you can pick one up. Click here and punch in your zip code.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know we get off topic from time to time but does this have anything remotely to do with HD, cable or satellite?



Yes, some of us use this thread to get information about our local OTA HD broadcasting because we don't have cable or satellite. WOAC has a lot of potential, and it is indeed an important issue to discuss.


Moving on to the possibilities for WBNX's subchannels, the Retro TV network would be an excellent option for WBNX in my opinion. I personally think that this would be good programming for those of us who are tired of watching the hours of repetitive news broadcasts every evening. I often get tired of watching the news every night and end up turning to something else that won't get me depressed.


----------



## Tim Lones

Hookbill:

It does interest me,to see what WOAC might put on the digital channels eventually, since the station is "local" to me though I am sure Mav didnt have to use all caps in his response..


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> It does interest me,to see what WOAC might put on the digital channels eventually, since the station is "local" to me though I am sure Mav didnt have to use all caps in his response..



That was an accident I did not know the caps lock was on my bad. I did not mean anything by it sorry.


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dunner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody else getting intermittent sound stutters on STO-HD? Symptomatically, it'll be like a half second of no sound, followed by normal sound, then a 1/2 second of stutter. It seems to be happening once every 2-3 minutes.
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing this on any other channels. I'm on Cox with an SA8300.



I've got DirecTV and STO-HD had audio dropouts when I was watching the game.

Also, I've noticed horrible macroblocking during transitions from replays to live and also on camera pans. Has to be the worst HD feed that I've seen.


I see the audio problem isn't unique to DirecTV. Does anybody else see the video issues with STO?


----------



## TLaz

WBNX-DT is transmitting Smallville in HDTV. Looks good to me, so far no breakups and a strong steady signal in my area.


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WBNX-DT is transmitting Smallville in HDTV. Looks good to me, so far no breakups and a strong steady signal in my area.



Do they provide CW HD in other markets?


----------



## dunner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see the audio problem isn't unique to DirecTV. Does anybody else see the video issues with STO?



I didn't notice any video issues on Cox, just the audio ones.


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do they provide CW HD in other markets?



As for direct tv, good question. If WBNX can come to an agreement then yes.


----------



## dleising

WBNX is dead air for me right now, perhaps I just don't get a strong enough signal.


----------



## uplate

Thanks Bill.... that's exactly what I was looking for. I will see if the local office will help me!


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WBNX-DT is transmitting Smallville in HDTV. Looks good to me, so far no breakups and a strong steady signal in my area.



FYI - I noticed that they were also transmitting DD 5.1 last night. Come on Raycom - you are the only major commercial broadcaster in Cleveland now not sending DD 5.1.


----------



## Rbuchina

I too had trouble with Wednesdays' Indians vs Rangers game. I have TWC and I had no sound at all. The picture was OK, at least as good as I recall from last year. I tried to tune the game sound in on my receiver at 1100 AM but I live up by the lake and its impossible to pick up WTAM. I looked in the paper for the local AM station and found out the game was on WMMS FM since the Cavs playoff game was on WTAM. Problem solved although Tom Hamilton was about 1-2 seconds ahead of the video action. It was like watching continuous replays.


I e-mailed both STO and TWC. I received this back from STO.


> From: "General Mailbox"

>

> Thank you for your email. We are aware that there was an issue with

> the HD telecast of last night's Indians-Rangers game. The problem was

> with HTN and their uplink to the satellite to distribute the game, we

> are working with them to fix the problem. We apologize and thank you

> for watching SportsTime Ohio!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI - I noticed that they were also transmitting DD 5.1 last night. Come on Raycom - you are the only major commercial broadcaster in Cleveland now not sending DD 5.1.



Hmm...makes me tempted to sneak out and get a small indoor antenna to see if I can pick it up. Or I can wait and hope TW starts broadcasting it soon.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never got into Veronica. I suppose she's legal now but come on, she still just a little girl.




She was born the same year as me... she's been legal since the show began. But I'm happily married as well!







It is a really cool show. Great wise-cracking dialogue...


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never got into Veronica. I suppose she's legal now but come on, she still just a little girl.



She's 27. The show was better the first year.


----------



## danwv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uplate* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask but I need help... I started trying to upgrade to HD cable with Time Warner in the Cleveland suburbs (former Adelphia area) in early February and was put on a waiting list for an HD DVR and told two to three weeks. I'm *still* on the list after two and half months. Anyone else in the same situation? Any suggestions on how I can expedite the process? I've called a couple of times, but they don't know anything and won't give me the number of the department that handles the waiting list. Is there a local office I can call?



I've had the same problem as well. I've been on the main list for 12 weeeks. I tried stopping by a local office (Macedonia) and have been on their list for a couple of weeks. If you stop by there, be warned that they are switching to TW hours beginning in early May (9-4:30pm M-F, closed from 1-2).


At this point, I'm just hoping to get one (well, two actually) by the time football season starts


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> She's 27. The show was better the first year.



27? I could sworn the first year of the show she was a teenager. Well, that's television for you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danwv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've had the same problem as well. I've been on the main list for 12 weeeks. I tried stopping by a local office (Macedonia) and have been on their list for a couple of weeks. If you stop by there, be warned that they are switching to TW hours beginning in early May (9-4:30pm M-F, closed from 1-2).
> 
> 
> At this point, I'm just hoping to get one (well, two actually) by the time football season starts




Wow, they wouldn't let you have on at the Macedonia office? Bummer.


I bought my Samsung 19" HD a few months ago and had no problem getting a HD STB.


If you click here you can find out how to get an S3 TiVo for 499.00 plus a free wireless adapter. You will have to commit for a minimum of 1 year but there are several plans.


It's more expensive then any STB or DVR that TW is offering but at least you can get going and not be on some wait list. By the way that price is 300 bucks less then mine. 350.00 if you count the wireless adapter.


----------



## dponeill

My brother has TW in Dayton and was having some problems with his DVR. He was told that he could either exchange it for a standard STB or be put on a waiting list for the DVR.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 27? I could sworn the first year of the show she was a teenager. Well, that's television for you.



I imagine a lot of that has to do with the work rules for minors.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I imagine a lot of that has to do with the work rules for minors.



When I say teenager I mean 18. If she was suppose to be 15 at that time that to me seems like something she could get away with. But she would have been 24 at the start of the show (I think).


I have caught a glimpse or two of the show and kind of thought she was looking hot but I also felt quite guilty about that.







Good to see my instincts wern't way off base.


----------



## hookbill

I really want to support WEWS in their transition to HD news. Truly I do. But again today the voice was so out of synche with the picture it was unwatchable.


Gary16, what in the heck is going on over there? Do they have to have a custom made part to fix this problem? That would be the only reason I can see for this to keep on happening.


Also if the problem is caused by the Dolby 5.1 why not just shut the Dolby 5.1 down during the news and bring it back up when Wheel comes on. This plain doesn't make sense.


I was forced to turn to FOX and no sooner did I switch, there it was, another story about A.I. I'm seriously thinking about tuning to non hd WOIO things are getting that bad!


----------



## JJkizak

55.1 coming in loud and clear OTA.


JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My brother has TW in Dayton and was having some problems with his DVR. He was told that he could either exchange it for a standard STB or be put on a waiting list for the DVR.



There is a backlog of DVRs nationally; it's not just TWC. The main reasons for the backlog are the popularity of the devices as well as the manufacturers having to retool their assembly lines for production of the new FCC-required separable security units.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is a backlog of DVRs nationally; it's not just TWC. The main reasons for the backlog are the popularity of the devices as well as the manufacturers having to retool their assembly lines for production of the new FCC-required separable security units.



When I first heard about this backlog that's what I figured it was. CableCards. They have probably stopped production of DVR's like the SA 8300 and are relying on the SA 9000 to take it's place. But who know's what stage of development that is in or whether or not it will be available by the deadline in the article on the link.


----------



## kinglerch

Sorry if this has been asked before. I check this thread occasionally, but it's extremely active.


WUAB-DT broadcasts in 720p, but which shows are in HD? I thought it was a lack of content but last week the cavs game was in SD on WUAB and HD on FSN. Why is this? Did WUAB say anything about moving their cavs broadcasts to HD?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before. I check this thread occasionally, but it's extremely active.
> 
> 
> WUAB-DT broadcasts in 720p, but which shows are in HD? I thought it was a lack of content but last week the cavs game was in SD on WUAB and HD on FSN. Why is this? Did WUAB say anything about moving their cavs broadcasts to HD?



I don't think WUAB has *ever* had an HD Cavs game. Two different sets of cameras, two different productions. Remember WUAB is owned by Raycom, the same cheap bastards that took away the DD 5.1 audio decoder the week after the Super Bowl. I wouldn't hold my breath on them providing HD sports anytime soon. I also wouldn't be surprised if FSN's contract with the Cavs said that WUAB can't be in HD, so as to keep FSN the "superior" product.


----------



## eml626

I am confused. when I had TWC in Columbus all NBATV games in HD on InHD were broadcast. In Cleveland not only are the Cavs blocked out but all NBATVHD games are. This is confusing to me. i pay an additional fee to get NBATV as it is I believe and now I can't watch Cavs playoffs in HD? Is there anywhere anyone knows of on TWC where we can watch Mondays game in HD? Man is Fiber going to push these guys out in months afters its release which could not come soon enough!


----------



## Dweezilz

Has anyone noticed that Time Warner has shifted their image down about 2%? I have a Westinghouse 1080p LCD that does 1:1 with no overscan as well as a Sanyo projector set to 0% overscan and now when I look at the overscan page from HDnet Tuneup, I show 2% overscan on the bottom and a black bar ABOVE the 0% on top. TNT-HD now has a sizeable black bar on top and ESPN-HD has garbage on the top of the screen when they are showing 4:3 with sidebars and a thin black bar with HD content where there was none before. Even Discovery-HD now has a thin black line on the top of their image. Of of these use to fill the screen completely even with 0 overscan. This seemed to have happened some time in the last week or so. The first Cavs playoff game on TNT-HD didn't have the black bar on top (it's about 1/2 inch on my 37" Westy) but all the games and other content since has had varying sized bars on top.


I've verified that others with Time Warner see this same thing as well. I wonder why they have done that? Now their picture is not centered. I'd call their support line, but I'm guessing they'll have no clue what I'm talking about and just disregard the call. In the end, I guess it doesn't matter for those using at least 3% overscan since you'll never see it, but I'd like to have it back the way it was.


----------



## paule123

You guys need to stop dreaming about fiber. It's just not going to happen in the Cleveland area. FIOS is a Verizon product and only available where Verizon is the local telephone company. In Ohio/Michigan/Illinois AT&T/SBC/Ameritech local phone service territory, the best ATT is gonna do is U-Verse which is crappy old copper to your house. 25Mbps average. That's it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed that Time Warner has shifted their image down about 2%? I have a Westinghouse 1080p LCD that does 1:1 with no overscan as well as a Sanyo projector set to 0% overscan and now when I look at the overscan page from HDnet Tuneup, I show 2% overscan on the bottom and a black bar ABOVE the 0% on top. TNT-HD now has a sizeable black bar on top and ESPN-HD has garbage on the top of the screen when they are showing 4:3 with sidebars and a thin black bar with HD content where there was none before. Even Discovery-HD now has a thin black line on the top of their image. Of of these use to fill the screen completely even with 0 overscan. This seemed to have happened some time in the last week or so. The first Cavs playoff game on TNT-HD didn't have the black bar on top (it's about 1/2 inch on my 37" Westy) but all the games and other content since has had varying sized bars on top.



I don't think there's anything in a typical cable headend that CAN shrink the digital picture by a certain percentage. Bandwidth is managed by controlling GOP, symbol rate, that kind of stuff. They don't selectively discard individual scan lines.


Is there any chance that the warmer weather is causing an air conditioner to kick in, causing a drop in line voltage in your home?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've verified that others with Time Warner see this same thing as well. I wonder why they have done that? Now their picture is not centered. I'd call their support line, but I'm guessing they'll have no clue what I'm talking about and just disregard the call. In the end, I guess it doesn't matter for those using at least 3% overscan since you'll never see it, but I'd like to have it back the way it was.



Sorry, TW customer here and I don't see it. Everything looks the same to me.


----------



## Inundated

Also TWC, also noticing no scan line differences, and my Westy pretty much goes out to the edges.


Re: Verizon FIOS - Verizon IS the local phone company in the old GTE territories (i.e. Medina). But I'm guessing Medina, even being part of a reasonably large media market, will get FIOS as late as they'll roll it out...


Re: Cavs in HD. WUAB actually takes the FSN Ohio feed, and for whatever reason, FSN Ohio doesn't do the playoffs in HD. (And even if they did, I don't know if WUAB/Raycom has the proper equipment to transmit the FSN Ohio HD feed.)


And I have no idea where, if anywhere, TWC Cleveland can offer the NBATV HD feed for those who have it in SD digital. I'd also presume InHD, but I don't think that's ever been done. Remember, the former Adelphia system didn't even have NBATV for any price.


----------



## lefkas

I'm not getting Channel 3 WKYC-DT on Time Warner Canton right now. Any one else having a similar problem ? Also, does anyone know if TW is carrying the digital signal of WBNX Ch. 55 now that it has started broadcasting in hi-def ?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not getting Channel 3 WKYC-DT on Time Warner Canton right now. Any one else having a similar problem ? Also, does anyone know if TW is carrying the digital signal of WBNX Ch. 55 now that it has started broadcasting in hi-def ?



Have you watched anytime in the last few days? I couldn't get it either a couple days ago through my external QAM tuner, so I did a re-scan of the channels and it came in on a different channel.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think there's anything in a typical cable headend that CAN shrink the digital picture by a certain percentage. Bandwidth is managed by controlling GOP, symbol rate, that kind of stuff. They don't selectively discard individual scan lines.
> 
> 
> Is there any chance that the warmer weather is causing an air conditioner to kick in, causing a drop in line voltage in your home?



I never said they 'shrunk' the picture a certain percentage and it has nothing at all to do with bandwidth. Nor was I implying that they selectively discarded lines. Their image has shifted down by 2%. I'm positive of it. I've used HDNet's tuneup multiple times on it to check the overscan over the past 4 months that I've owned the TV. I even posted my results in the Westinghouse LCD thread. It was 0% on all 4 sides on Standard mode and about 6%-7% all around with the 'FILL' setting. Now on Standard I get 2% overscan on the bottom and a thin black bar above the test pattern on the top. 3 other people with TV's that can do 0% overscan have also noted the same exact results.....it's not my air conditioner which isn't even on. That's kinda funny actually. If you have a typical HDTV that has about 5% - 7% overscan you will not notice this change. The only way you'll notice it is if you have 0% overscan.


For those that have 0% overscan and have Time Warner and have TNT-HD, watch the NBA Playoffs tonight. I would be shocked if you don't see a black bar on the top of the screen. It's something you'll have to look for. There isn't 2% of the picture 'missing' on the top, it's the bottom that's just a little bit off the screen. It's in the 'extra' area that isn't intended to be seen anyway so it's not like anything important is chopped off. The problem is, that the Westinghouse 1080p LCD has two modes...0% overscan and about 7% overscan. Before the shift, many channels filled the screen even with 1:1. Some channels did still have garbage on the top of the picture or on the side (ie NBC has an orange line on the left side believe it or not...you just don't normally see it.)


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also TWC, also noticing no scan line differences, and my Westy pretty much goes out to the edges.



Does your Westy have overscan or can it do 0% (ie 1:1)? If so, watch TNT-HD tonight during the playoff games...if you have TMC I'm betting you'll see the black bar. If your TV is even 2 or 3% overscan, you won't see it. It's not something on my end, I can guarantee that. It's been reported by 3 other people independently. I also see it on my Sanyo Z4 projector in addition to my 1080p Westinghouse LCD, so I know it's not an issue with my TV.


----------



## hookbill

For some unknown reason INHD is gray on my S3. I don't know what the problem is yet but I know I'm getting it on my upstairs STB so it's probably cable card related. I'll bet they blacked something out and then when they turned it back on they didn't hit the cable cards.


I talk to a customer service rep and I guess Sunday is idiot day. No one knew what an S3 was and the first thing that came out of their mouths were "We don't have anything to do with other DVR's other then our own." One I spoke with told me that there is no way I can have any DVR other then theirs and I started speaking over her and said "Do you see that I have two cable cards?" "Yes." "What do you think those cable cards do?"


It looks like I'll be calling my person at head end again.


----------



## BrettMichael




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does your Westy have overscan or can it do 0% (ie 1:1)? If so, watch TNT-HD tonight during the playoff games...if you have TMC I'm betting you'll see the black bar. If your TV is even 2 or 3% overscan, you won't see it. It's not something on my end, I can guarantee that. It's been reported by 3 other people independently. I also see it on my Sanyo Z4 projector in addition to my 1080p Westinghouse LCD, so I know it's not an issue with my TV.



I have the same monitor (Westinghouse LVM-37w3) and cable box (SA8300HD) as Dweezilz. TW did one of their updates to my box (not sure if it affected everyone in NE Ohio market) about 2 weeks ago and I've had the exact same issue. TNTHD is showing Dallas/Golden State playoff basketball right now and the roughly 1/2" black line exists at the top of the monitor; commercials display this as well. NBCHD fully fills the monitor resolution. ABCHD has a thinner black line at the top, as does WUABHD. FOXHD has a larger black line on the news currently, with weird red/blue garbage. PBSHD has no black line. HBOHD has a 1/4" black line at the top. On HDNET, it's probably 1/8". And so on.


Same thing with 4:3 content on ESPNHD: I now see garbage lines at the top. Ditto the orange line on NBCHD, although that's always been there on this monitor.


None of this was this way before TW's recent "update". Every HD station filled the monitor's 1:1 pitch fully. They've definitely caused the image to shift, at least on many of the HD stations, be it in the box or elsewhere. It's not the monitor and it's not line voltage; it's been independently verified.


Also since the update, I get occasional "DVI/HDMI disabled" messages from the SA8300HD when first powering up. These resolve themselves in about 5 seconds and the image displays normally, although with the above-mentioned apparent image shift.


----------



## eml626

I never claimed the TWC or Adelphia in Cleveland showed the NBATVHD games on inHD on the ocntrary there were always blacked out here but on inHD in Columbus they always came through on twc. It makes no sense now to black them out while nbatv is on a freeview.


Away from that cavs.com is saying game 4 will be available on FSN Ohio HD. Neither the guide or the channel confirm this. Tuning the HDBonus it says next event is the Indians game on Tues. Can anyone confirm that the game will be on the HDBonus channel mon night in HD? Thank you to anyone with any information!


BTW anyone looking for the HDBonus channel using QAM should be aware that it recently moved to qam256:106 (687000000) / Program: 1 that information is the correct format for the hdhomerun_bda.remap file for those of you watching through mce.


----------



## RussTC3

Great to see that that we finally have The CW in HD.


----------



## DWJMarshall3

Hey guy's read about 70 out of the 200+ pages in this thread but didn't find my answer for my area.


I was wondering if anyone here is getting NBC in HD in my area and with what antenna? Are you getting ABC, CBS and FOX as well? I have been looking into DirecTV or Dish as well. Does anyone know if the antennas that you hook onto those dish's work well? I been looking at getting the Dish but they don't have my Local in HD according to there site so would need the OTA antenna.


On a side note anyone know why Dish doesn't? DirecTV says they offer them in HD. But Dish's offer is much cheaper per month and they throw in a HDDVR free where as DirecTV wants 200 bucks for one. So yeah any info or advice for a Massillon man would be appreciated.


----------



## TheBlackKnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DWJMarshall3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guy's read about 70 out of the 200+ pages in this thread but didn't find my answer for my area.
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone here is getting NBC in HD in my area and with what antenna? Are you getting ABC, CBS and FOX as well?



You read 70 pages of this thread and didn't find one mention of what a PITA receiving WKYC-DT is?










Here in N. Canton, WKYC-DT is my most difficult OTA channel. It will be missing for weeks at a time. The problem in a nutshell: they broadcast digitally on ch. 2 with fairly low power. Low VHF is prone to all kinds of interference which makes digital reception very difficult. You also need to be sure that you are using a VHF antenna to receive them - UHF-only antennas generally will not work. You may have a shot at another NBC station - WFMJ-DT in Youngstown.


I receive all other OTA Cleveland market stations, although WOIO-DT gives me occasional problems. Again, a Youngstown station is my backup - WKBN-DT. WOIO-DT is another VHF station (ch 10) and they also broadcast at a low power level.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheBlackKnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here in N. Canton, WKYC-DT is my most difficult OTA channel. It will be missing for weeks at a time.



Very much related to the antenna. I personally get 3.1 the best out of all the digital stations here in Kent (although I do have some trees that hinder my signal reception from the Parma farm). I can usually get 5.1, but 8.1 and 19.1 are more off than on for me. I'm using a Winegard Sensar III which is stronger in the VHF range than other "stealth" antennae and its amplified. DWJ, depending on how far you are from the transmitters and your line of sight, will dictate what type of antenna you need (and how high to put it). Hopefully you did read in the 70 pages, antennaweb.org is a good place to start.


----------



## JJkizak

Dweezilz:

I have a Sony LCD 46XBR2 with 2.5% overscan (Avia test disc) and do not see the black line on top of the SD picture (OTA) unless I set the TV to full pixel, then I will see the black line on the SD only but not on HD. There does seem to be some variation from channel to channel but not much.

JJK


----------



## Dweezilz

It seems the issue is more obvious on the non-OTA channels like TNT-HD and ESPN-HD although depending on what's being broadcast, a few of the locals have more garbage on top. It's always been there on the top of the SD just not on the HD. It doesn't surprize me that you don't see it via OTA HD as I'm sure it's not an issue with the networks since it spans several of them. Oh well, not much we can do. I know this is an issue with TW since I've now spoken to 3 other people who have independently seen the same issue over the last 2 weeks. I hate seeing the junk on the top of the HD stations. Bad enough to see it on the SD versions. At this point, I'll have to use the 'FILL' option on my TV and go to 7% overscan. Too much, but at least I won't see the extras. The only really annoying channel is TNT-HD during the NBA playoffs. I noticed that during Law & Order the black bar wasn't quite as big, but during the NBA game, it's pretty significant. Even with 2% overscan set on my Sanyo Z4 projector, I see it.


----------



## TLaz

Anyone gotten the EPG data for WBNX-DT on DiSH's EPG ?


----------



## Tom in OH

The guide data isn't showing on D* for WBNX-DT 30. Is anyone receiving this channel ota? Nothing here on 30-1 or 55-1.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone gotten the EPG data for WBNX-DT on DiSH's EPG ?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The guide data isn't showing on D* for WBNX-DT 30. Is anyone receiving this channel ota? Nothing here on 30-1 or 55-1.



I get WBNX OTA on 55-1, pretty strong at "85%". I also see 30.2, 30.3, and 30.4 but no programming. This is direct to the sony TV. I know the tuner in my vip622 isn't quite as good as my sony so I didn't test it with WBNX yet.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get WBNX OTA on 55-1, pretty strong at "85%". I also see 30.2, 30.3, and 30.4 but no programming. This is direct to the sony TV. I know the tuner in my vip622 isn't quite as good as my sony so I didn't test it with WBNX yet.



Hopefully they haven't gone full power yet. I'm glad to hear someone's receiving it.

thx, Tom


----------



## RussTC3

I'm receiving 55.1 in the Massillon area at 72-73% strength OTA. I'm also seeing a guide.


I have a hard time receiving WKYC also, but it does come in for the most part.


WOIO is a bit more reliable.


Everything else comes in perfectly at 80%+


----------



## pogamoggan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've just looked at the specs on the S2000 and S2010 and they only mention an ATSC tuner for HD. This will not pick up cable's QAM signals; it will only pick up broadcast HD with an antenna.
> 
> 
> You can always use it with an external set-top box or Tivo S3 for cable HD reception.



Sorry been away a while. Didn't see this reply.


These do have clear QAM tuners. It's listed in the manual.


I think I figured it out though.


Thanks!


Pogamoggan


----------



## Inundated

I think I'm seeing that small top line issue on my Westinghouse LVM32-w6, as described by Dweezilz and others here.


I say "I think" because I didn't really notice it until I started looking for it.


I have no idea if the TWC DVR (SA8000HD) is responsible, or even how it could be.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, the Cavs playoff game is indeed on FSN Ohio HD, on TWC/Cleveland "HDBONUS" channel 798.


----------



## eml626

Wow the Cavs playoff game tonight in HD was the sorriest excuse for an HD broadcast I have ever seen! Did anyone else notice the distortion and pixalation as baddly as I did. when they changed frequencies they must have lowered the packets/power. Looks awful


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I'm seeing that small top line issue on my Westinghouse LVM32-w6, as described by Dweezilz and others here.
> 
> 
> I say "I think" because I didn't really notice it until I started looking for it.
> 
> 
> I have no idea if the TWC DVR (SA8000HD) is responsible, or even how it could be.



Maybe that's why I don't see it is because I have the S3. But even then I don't see any difference on my 19" LCD with the standard SA STB. But then I haven't looked for it up there either.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The guide data isn't showing on D* for WBNX-DT 30. Is anyone receiving this channel ota? Nothing here on 30-1 or 55-1.



I don't know whether I'm getting now OTA, but I had been, pretty well too. But it looks like Veronica Mars may be on the chopping block which would take any reason for watching it away.


----------



## danwv

Just wanted to give an update on my previously mentioned troubles in getting an HD DVR from TW. I stopped by the Kent office yesterday and the very helpful folks there told me that they had just received the ok to start handing them out. So I swapped our two DVRs for two HD DVRs and our 13 week wait is over.










On another note, I have a black line on certain channels (all channels 

dan


----------



## hookbill

OK, on my 30" Sony Wega I see a black line on top and one on both sides and bottom when watching HD live. I can't honestly say this is different but I assume it could be.


No lines at all however watching HD on the 19" Sanyo HD LCD.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know whether I'm getting now OTA, but I had been, pretty well too. But it looks like Veronica Mars may be on the chopping block which would take any reason for watching it away.



Even if it were, why would you not continue to finish this season if you like the show?










No word on whether it will or won't be back until the end of May.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, on my 30" Sony Wega I see a black line on top and one on both sides and bottom when watching HD live. I can't honestly say this is different but I assume it could be.
> 
> 
> No lines at all however watching HD on the 19" Sanyo HD LCD.



I sure wish my 37" LVM-37w3 Westinghouse had more screen format options. I guess that's why a 1080p LCD costs only $1000!







My only choices are no overscan or FILL which is 7%. With no overscan, these bars become pretty obvious up close but still, from a distance it's not as noticable. How much overscan do you have set on that 30" Sony? Prob. around 7% I'd guess. I can deal with 7% should the bar or garbage on top ever become bothersome. When there's garbage on top though, it's definately bothersome. The bar isn't too bad from a distance of 7 or 8 feet. I just wish I knew why this is happening. I'm starting to think that it has something to do with the software update on the SA box as Brett had mentioned. Maybe if they put the new update back on the box it'll fix this issue.


----------



## TLaz

Any word on the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT or equipment upgrades for WEAO-DT. I'd like to see PBS HDTV programming widely available in NE Ohio.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any word on the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT or equipment upgrades for WEAO-DT. I'd like to see PBS HDTV programming widely available in NE Ohio.



They don't have their tower issue resolved yet.


----------



## hookbill

This didn't come as a big surprise, it was mentioned when INHD2 went off the air.


INHD is now called MOJO. Not a big deal, but I did like using their "Tune Up" for adjusting my HDTV. They only give the schedule for a week at a time, I hope they haven't abandoned this for their new format.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This didn't come as a big surprise, it was mentioned when INHD2 went off the air.
> 
> 
> INHD is now called MOJO. Not a big deal, but I did like using their "Tune Up" for adjusting my HDTV. They only give the schedule for a week at a time, I hope they haven't abandoned this for their new format.



Old news. I talked about this back in December.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9291855


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Old news. I talked about this back in December.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post9291855



Ummmm...I didn't say it was news. I said it was no surprise, it had been talked about.


What I was wondering was if they were going to continue their HD Tune up. I guess you missed the point of my post.


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ummmm...I didn't say it was news. I said it was no surprise, it had been talked about.
> 
> 
> What I was wondering was if they were going to continue their HD Tune up. I guess you missed the point of my post.



HDNet still supplies a test pattern sequence, 6:50AM on Sunday. I have used both in the past, not sure which one I preferred more, since it has been a while.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pucky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HDNet still supplies a test pattern sequence, 6:50AM on Sunday. I have used both in the past, not sure which one I preferred more, since it has been a while.



You could DVR the test patterns for future reference. It's not a perfect solution but it's darned close.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You could DVR the test patterns for future reference. It's not a perfect solution but it's darned close.



If your DVR is a DBS receiver (E* or D*) that would be a perfect solution. This is because the DBS DVR's record the digital signal without D/A and/or A/D converters. The recorded signal is exactly what was received live.


----------



## terryfoster

I fixed your statement for you:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If your DVR records a digital signal without D/A and/or A/D conversion then it is the perfect solution. The recorded signal is exactly what was received live.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I fixed your statement for you:



Thanks. Are there any DVR's that record direct to digital besides the DBS boxes?


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really want to support WEWS in their transition to HD news. Truly I do. But again today the voice was so out of synche with the picture it was unwatchable.
> 
> 
> Gary16, what in the heck is going on over there? Do they have to have a custom made part to fix this problem? That would be the only reason I can see for this to keep on happening.
> 
> 
> Also if the problem is caused by the Dolby 5.1 why not just shut the Dolby 5.1 down during the news and bring it back up when Wheel comes on. This plain doesn't make sense.
> 
> 
> I was forced to turn to FOX and no sooner did I switch, there it was, another story about A.I. I'm seriously thinking about tuning to non hd WOIO things are getting that bad!



Same problem hear. I noticed again last night during Boston Legal that they have major audio sync problems. Why can't the people at WEWS get their act together?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. Are there any DVR's that record direct to digital besides the DBS boxes?




Sure, I bet there are even some home brew ones that use ATSC tuner cards besides the obvious TiVo Series 3 and other cable company provided DVRs like ones from Scientific Atlanta, Motorola, and others.


Pretty much any ATSC, digital cable, or DBS DVR has the ability to capture the direct digital stream.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Pretty much any ATSC, digital cable, or DBS DVR has the ability to capture the direct digital stream.



Yep. And when you're watching your content through a set-top DVR, you're already watching it through the entire processing chain including the read-write process on the hard drive. Thus a DVR playback of a test pattern will look the same as it did "live" while watching it through the HD buffer process. When you calibrate your set using playback, you'll see the same results as you would if calibrating live through the DVR.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep. And when you're watching your content through a set-top DVR, you're already watching it through the entire processing chain including the read-write process on the hard drive. Thus a DVR playback of a test pattern will look the same as it did "live" while watching it through the HD buffer process. When you calibrate your set using playback, you'll see the same results as you would if calibrating live through the DVR.



I've always done it that way. My "failure" is I erase the test patterns after I'm finished. I'm always concerned about disk space and since these things last 10-15 minutes it's really silly not to save them. I like to pause them and concentrate on specific patterns to make sure I've got it right.


The reality of it is if you are watching "live" and using the test patterns through any DVR you arn't really watching live. Everything is recorded first.


----------



## JJkizak

The WEWS news technique of 1/3rd center at 4 x 3 and 1/3rd right/1/3rd left at zoomed/combined on their mobile shots is God awful. Why don't they use the side bars like all the other 4 x 3 news shots?

JJK


----------



## Ben Music

Hey hookbill,


After months of reading about how much you love your Tivo s3, I finally bit the bullet on the 499 deal. I must say that evrything you have said about the s3 is true. This unit is a real thing of beauty.

I live in Lorain County where we have TWC (Former Comcast). I stopped in to my closest TWC office (Elyria) to inquire about cable cards, and they quoted me $5.95 x 2 per month. Does that sound right to you? Almost $12.00 per mo. for the pair seemed a little high to me.

Do you know anything about the new multi-stream cable cards? Are they out yet, or maybe coming soon? I thought I read someplace that if you use the multi-stream card you would only need one in slot 1 to make both tuners active. Any advice on this?


Thanks,

Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill,
> 
> 
> After months of reading about how much you love your Tivo s3, I finally bit the bullet on the 499 deal. I must say that evrything you have said about the s3 is true. This unit is a real thing of beauty.
> 
> I live in Lorain County where we have TWC (Former Comcast). I stopped in to my closest TWC office (Elyria) to inquire about cable cards, and they quoted me $5.95 x 2 per month. Does that sound right to you? Almost $12.00 per mo. for the pair seemed a little high to me.
> 
> Do you know anything about the new multi-stream cable cards? Are they out yet, or maybe coming soon? I thought I read someplace that if you use the multi-stream card you would only need one in slot 1 to make both tuners active. Any advice on this?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben Music



Hey, I'm the Radio Shack of TiVo. You got questions? I've got answers. Some that may disappoint.


OK, cable card prices vary even within the companies throughout the country. I think my cable card price is 2.99 for the first and 4.99 for the second. Not as much as yours and they just went up about two months ago. Coincidence? I think not. The price of their pos SA 8300 went down a buck. Also I have read that some Comcast areas actually charge for an additional tuner! Outrageous.


OK your talking about the two way cable card that will be used in all future DVR boxes, both cable's and TiVo's. That card will work with your TiVo but you will still need two of them and unfortunately they will not work two way. The S3's hardware is designed only to work one way so no matter what software they put in it there will be no way to use "on demand" features.


However you still may be able to order ppv and such by phone. I don't use it but you might. I say "might" because some areas say yes, others no. I think we can because I ordered MLB and I get that just fine on the S3.


Now I don't know if you've had your cable cards installed yet or if they will let you do it yourself. This varys from office to office as well. But if you have an installer out make sure he follows the instructions EXACTLY like they say on the sheet. I don't care if you gotta threaten him with a baseball bat. No variation. They are easy instructions and if you let them know how serious you are they will probably just hand the cards to you. That's fine, they can do the call in.










Anyway you got a great deal and I'm totally jealous as I paid the whole 800 bucks for mine, but I would still do it again as I feel it was worth every penny to get rid of that SA 8300.


Enjoy!


Added: We are currently receiving an update to version 8.3. It seems to be a bit of a slow roll out but it will have search by HD categories. I've received mine already and it's really cool. Plus the guide is much faster and program search is fater too.


If your still running 8.00 or 8.01 have it do a couple of calls to get it to catch up. If you see "pending restart" on you system info screen then do a restart so you can get the update installed. If you don't it will restart itself around 3:00 am.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Added: We are currently receiving an update to version 8.3. It seems to be a bit of a slow roll out but it will have search by HD categories. I've received mine already and it's really cool. Plus the guide is much faster and program search is faster too.



Do you know if this addresses the rumored bugs with MPEG PIDs?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill,
> 
> 
> After months of reading about how much you love your Tivo s3, I finally bit the bullet on the 499 deal. I must say that evrything you have said about the s3 is true. This unit is a real thing of beauty.
> 
> I live in Lorain County where we have TWC (Former Comcast). I stopped in to my closest TWC office (Elyria) to inquire about cable cards, and they quoted me $5.95 x 2 per month. Does that sound right to you? Almost $12.00 per mo. for the pair seemed a little high to me.
> 
> Do you know anything about the new multi-stream cable cards? Are they out yet, or maybe coming soon? I thought I read someplace that if you use the multi-stream card you would only need one in slot 1 to make both tuners active. Any advice on this?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben Music



Congrats on making the jump to an S3! I'm in North Ridgeville too and TWC quoted me $2.99 x 2 for the Cablecards for my S3. I haven't seen my first bill from them yet, so we'll see what they actually charge.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you know if this addresses the rumored bugs with MPEG PIDs?



8.1 addressed that problem. However.....I had a situation with MOJO, formerly INHD where I couldn't receive it. Working with my contact at head end at TW it turned out that a secondary audio track was causing that problem. Once they pulled that stream, no more problem. I did not ask what kind of audio track it was.


This happened before the update to 8.3. Right after they solved the problem I received the update but I have no idea if it would have helped.


The odd thing about this was when it was INHD I never had a problem with it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Congrats on making the jump to an S3! I'm in North Ridgeville too and TWC quoted me $2.99 x 2 for the Cablecards for my S3. I haven't seen my first bill from them yet, so we'll see what they actually charge.



It will probably be what they quoted. That's what I was saying that whomever is your head end all seems to have different prices. Doesn't make sense and I gotta wonder if it's even legal. But then again if Shell can charge 3.59 in California and 3.19 out here for regular maybe it is.


Still, we're suppose to all be TW NEO. I vote we take KennedyJ's price and make them give that to all of us.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 8.1 addressed that problem. However.....I had a situation with MOJO, formerly INHD where I couldn't receive it. Working with my contact at head end at TW it turned out that a secondary audio track was causing that problem. Once they pulled that stream, no more problem. I did not ask what kind of audio track it was.
> 
> 
> This happened before the update to 8.3. Right after they solved the problem I received the update but I have no idea if it would have helped.
> 
> 
> The odd thing about this was when it was INHD I never had a problem with it.



Does Tivo provide their users with a bugfix list with new releases of firmware? It would be nice to know what (if anything) has been improved beyond the features and cosmetic stuff.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does Tivo provide their users with a bugfix list with new releases of firmware? It would be nice to know what (if anything) has been improved beyond the features and cosmetic stuff.



It sure would.







When TiVo does an update you usually get a message telling you the primary reason for that update. However I don't recall see anything in that message related to bugs. I could be wrong about that, I'm just not sure.


There is always the TiVo Forum where you can get more information on "bugs" and fixes. One thing I noticed was that wasn't mentioned on the last update was how much faster they made the guide. Usually over in the TiVo Forum one of the guys who work at TiVo will actually tell you what bugs they fixed as well.


As far as "bugs" go the only one I can absolutely say I know about is the audio stream bug you talked about earlier. People talk about all kinds of other "bugs" but if you don't get them yourself are they really bugs? My S3 hasn't really bugged me other then that audio stream thing and TW fixed that for me so they really have some capability to deal with these situations IF you know who to talk to.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One thing I noticed was that wasn't mentioned on the last update was how much faster they made the guide. Usually over in the TiVo Forum one of the guys who work at TiVo will actually tell you what bugs they fixed as well.



Thanks. Glad to hear that they made some functional improvements, Hookbill.


----------



## hookbill

KennedyJ, Ben Music, and other S3 owners: A friend of mine at th TiVo forum just emailed me with some exciting news. It is now possible to activate the eSATA port. For instructions go to the Tivo Forum S3 and look for the link dealing with this.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same problem hear. I noticed again last night during Boston Legal that they have major audio sync problems. Why can't the people at WEWS get their act together?



It's not the "people" it's the equipment. The "people" you need to bash are the equipment manufacturers. The poor engineers at WEWS have their hands full with all the buggy equipment. Yes, it's not just the consumer who ends up with buggy DVR's - the broadcasters also get their share of the the grief! Share the joy!


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> KennedyJ, Ben Music, and other S3 owners: A friend of mine at th TiVo forum just emailed me with some exciting news. It is now possible to activate the eSATA port. For instructions go to the Tivo Forum S3 and look for the link dealing with this.



That is indeed exciting news Hookbill! Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you know anything about the new multi-stream cable cards? Are they out yet, or maybe coming soon? I thought I read someplace that if you use the multi-stream card you would only need one in slot 1 to make both tuners active. Any advice on this?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK your talking about the two way cable card that will be used in all future DVR boxes, both cable's and TiVo's. That card will work with your TiVo but you will still need two of them and unfortunately they will not work two way. The S3's hardware is designed only to work one way so no matter what software they put in it there will be no way to use "on demand" features.



Multi-stream cards are different than "two way" or "interactive" cards. If you can get one multi-stream card then you're all set on a S3, otherwise you need two regular cable cards. It sounds like these cards are still not yet on the market, but they may be soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Multi-stream cards are different than "two way" or "interactive" cards. If you can get one multi-stream card then you're all set on a S3, otherwise you need two regular cable cards. It sounds like these cards are still not yet on the market, but they may be soon.




I didn't know about that. Thanks for correcting me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is indeed exciting news Hookbill! Thanks for the heads up.



Your welcome. And it works, I now have 98 hours HD and 927 SD with the Seagate 500GB eSATA I added. This is just great!


----------



## vikingfan

I live in Akron, and have just purchased an HDTV and installed a new rooftop antenna. For the last couple of nights, the signal strength on the cleveland stations drops from the high 80's or low 90's during the day into the 50's and 60's. weather conditions haven't been bad. Just wondered if anyone else has had this happened and had any info. Thanks for any help.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Multi-stream cards are different than "two way" or "interactive" cards. If you can get one multi-stream card then you're all set on a S3, otherwise you need two regular cable cards. It sounds like these cards are still not yet on the market, but they may be soon.



Both the "M" card and the original "S" card are capable of two-way operation *if* the host device contains the needed hardware. According to the specs, the card queries the host device to see whether it contains a return path transmitter for two-way operation. If the host device says no, the card then kicks into one-way mode. This capability was built into the cards from day one.


Keep in mind that the host device is responsible for 100% of the RF processing, both downstream and upstream. The cablecard only does conditional access and crypto; it operates at baseband and is thus agnostic in terms of one-way or two-way hosts.


----------



## paule123

WOW is on the move again - pushed out another SARA update on my SA8300HD to version 1.89.20.1


What tipped me off is the word "NEW" appears next to first run shows in the EPG, as well as a star rating for movies. I don't think that was there before.


Checked the diagnostics are there are new screens for SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO ! Verrry interesting.


Passthrough mode has also returned. I don't have to keep the SA8300HD locked into 1080i mode anymore or manually switch to 720p for optimum viewing of 720p channels. Somewhere in a previous update 480i channels got screwed up with passthrough, (or did passthrough go completely away?) so I had to force 1080i or 720p to be able to watch TV on the standard def channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW is on the move again - pushed out another SARA update on my SA8300HD to version 1.89.20.1
> 
> 
> What tipped me off is the word "NEW" appears next to first run shows in the EPG, as well as a star rating for movies. I don't think that was there before.
> 
> 
> Checked the diagnostics are there are new screens for SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO ! Verrry interesting.
> 
> 
> Passthrough mode has also returned. I don't have to keep the SA8300HD locked into 1080i mode anymore or manually switch to 720p for optimum viewing of 720p channels. Somewhere in a previous update 480i channels got screwed up with passthrough, (or did passthrough go completely away?) so I had to force 1080i or 720p to be able to watch TV on the standard def channels.



SA is one of the major players in SDV, so implementation of that in a version of their firmware isn't surprising. It doesn't mean that WOW is considering it or even thinking about going there.....yet. If they do, they would be the first in our area.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your welcome. And it works, I now have 98 hours HD and 927 SD with the Seagate 500GB eSATA I added. This is just great!



So much to watch, so little time!!! I have it hard enough trying to find enough time to watch what is recorded on my 8300....


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vikingfan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Akron, and have just purchased an HDTV and installed a new rooftop antenna. For the last couple of nights, the signal strength on the cleveland stations drops from the high 80's or low 90's during the day into the 50's and 60's. weather conditions haven't been bad. Just wondered if anyone else has had this happened and had any info. Thanks for any help.



I live in Akron and haven't noticed any change. I checked the signal levels, and they appear the same.


However, I've noticed a lot of pixelation on WBNX-DT. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So much to watch, so little time!!! I have it hard enough trying to find enough time to watch what is recorded on my 8300....



Well, Summer is coming and I really wish I could have had this at the start of the Fall Season. It's nice to have shows that you can kind of stack up for the season.


You mean to say you don't have a eSATA on your SA 8300? You should get one, the Maxtor Quickview is the one I used made specially for it. 20 hours of HD in a week is not much.


----------



## TLaz




Andrew K said:


> I live in Akron and haven't noticed any change. I checked the signal levels, and they appear the same.
> 
> 
> However, I've noticed a lot of pixelation on WBNX-DT. Has anyone else noticed this?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Yes me too. I've also noticed significant changes is signal strength of WJW-DT at night. It appears to be related to multipath as the signal fluctuates wildly.


----------



## kinglerch




TLaz said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Akron and haven't noticed any change. I checked the signal levels, and they appear the same.
> 
> 
> However, I've noticed a lot of pixelation on WBNX-DT. Has anyone else noticed this?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Yes me too. I've also noticed significant changes is signal strength of WJW-DT at night. It appears to be related to multipath as the signal fluctuates wildly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no errors with WJW until recently. The past two weeks have had occational errors for some reason, normally every 10-20 minutes or so. It is a strong signal from where I live and my antenna is hard wired in the attic, so I know it's not an antenna problem. WJW made some change recently?
> 
> 
> I didn't notice problems with WBNX, but I haven't watched it for long periods yet.
Click to expand...


----------



## vikingfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Akron and haven't noticed any change. I checked the signal levels, and they appear the same.
> 
> 
> However, I've noticed a lot of pixelation on WBNX-DT. Has anyone else noticed this?



WBNX is quite pixelated for me as well, only getting a low 70 signal thru the DISH receiver. My Toshiba 57hm167 can't lock a signal on it at all. Channels 3-1 and 19-1 "faded away" around 8pm tonight.


----------



## JJkizak

OTA 55.1 has been booming in in this area as also 67.1. Also analog 11 & 13 Toledo. No problem with any of the others.


JJK


----------



## TimSH

I live in North Olmsted in a high rise on Columbia Rd. just south of I480. 7th floor apartment, living room exterior wall faces south, bedrooms face East. I have clear line of sight south and east from my balcony.


With an indoor Terk HDTVa, I get 5, 8, 19, 25 (with quite a bit of dropout), 43 (most of the time), 49 and 55 (just started getting this recently and there's some dropout). I also get, but don't care about 17. Am considering an RCA indoor/outdoor amplified antenna from WalMart. If it doesn't do any better inside, I can probably run a cable across the room and out through the hole in the wall where the A/C is mounted to get it outdoors on the balcony. I'd like to eliminate the dropouts as much as possible, and hopefully, be able to pull in 3.


Anyone have any opinions?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Olmsted in a high rise on Columbia Rd. just south of I480. 7th floor apartment, living room exterior wall faces south, bedrooms face East. I have clear line of sight south and east from my balcony.
> 
> 
> With an indoor Terk HDTVa, I get 5, 8, 19, 25 (with quite a bit of dropout), 43 (most of the time), 49 and 55 (just started getting this recently and there's some dropout). I also get, but don't care about 17. Am considering an RCA indoor/outdoor amplified antenna from WalMart. If it doesn't do any better inside, I can probably run a cable across the room and out through the hole in the wall where the A/C is mounted to get it outdoors on the balcony. I'd like to eliminate the dropouts as much as possible, and hopefully, be able to pull in 3.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any opinions?



I also have the Terk HDTVa antenna, and I've found this to be among the best of the indoor antennas. I purchased a RadioShack U-75R outdoor UHF-only antenna, and it works slightly better but it's much bulkier and requires enough outdoor space for placement. It fits on my balcony, but I can't move it very much, and that spot doesn't have the best reception for me. Therefore, I use the Terk since it's smaller, and I can move it to wherever it picks up the desired channel.


I was looking at some detailed coverage maps. I checked the exact location that you've given me, and you should easily be able to get the following digitals: 5, 8, 3, 61, 43, 55, 19, 17, 49, and 25 (in order from strongest signal to lowest). I've found that 3 and 19 are a bit tricky since those are VHF channels. For me, it's just a matter of finding the right place for my rabbit ears that can pick up both channels.


Since you're on the 7th level and facing southeast, have you tried the Youngstown digitals WKBN-DT on rf 41 and WFMJ-DT on rf 20? I doubt that you'll get enough signal, but it's worth a shot. WOAC-DT on rf 47 is also a maybe, but that's just 24/7 infomercials. Other than that, I can't think of any other channels available for you.


----------



## TimSH

3 is the only thing I just haven't been able to get at all. Since it's on digital VHF 2, I'm not surprised. I picked up the RCA indoor/outdoor at WalMart today. If it's not an improvement, I'll return it. I'm hoping that I can end up picking up NBC with it. That's the only thing I lack totally. The analog signal sucks as well where I'm at.


I hadn't tried the Youngstown stations. Might be worth trying since I'm so high up. I'll let you know what the results are. I have to think that, with the antenna on the balcony facing the way it does, I should be pretty good. I blame most of the problems I have now on 1970's building materials. Brick isn't the greatest thing in the world for allowing signals to pass.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Olmsted in a high rise on Columbia Rd. just south of I480. 7th floor apartment, living room exterior wall faces south, bedrooms face East. I have clear line of sight south and east from my balcony.
> 
> 
> With an indoor Terk HDTVa, I get 5, 8, 19, 25 (with quite a bit of dropout), 43 (most of the time), 49 and 55 (just started getting this recently and there's some dropout). I also get, but don't care about 17. Am considering an RCA indoor/outdoor amplified antenna from WalMart. If it doesn't do any better inside, I can probably run a cable across the room and out through the hole in the wall where the A/C is mounted to get it outdoors on the balcony. I'd like to eliminate the dropouts as much as possible, and hopefully, be able to pull in 3.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any opinions?



What you need is a window facing towards the transmitters. Being outside on the balcony is a plus, however aiming through glass (but not through a screen) is almost as good. Aiming through brick & mortar OTOH will cause dropouts.


----------



## Michael P 2341




kinglerch said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I had no errors with WJW until recently. The past two weeks have had occational errors for some reason, normally every 10-20 minutes or so. It is a strong signal from where I live and my antenna is hard wired in the attic, so I know it's not an antenna problem. WJW made some change recently?
> 
> 
> I didn't notice problems with WBNX, but I haven't watched it for long periods yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The increase in foliage may be the culprit, especially on UHF stations (which includes WJW-DT on rf 31).
Click to expand...


----------



## Andrew K

Hey TimSH, I would have to agree with Michael. You're only 11.25 miles from the transmitter for WKYC-DT and you're on the 7th floor, so you shouldn't have any problems. Just make sure you have an appropriate low VHF antenna that isn't near any devices that can cause interference. Moving your antenna to the balcony should also help by cutting through the building material. The Cleveland transmitters are all east of your location. I'm in a low elevation at 18.7 miles from those transmitters, and I still can get all of the Cleveland locals very well.


Here is a color-coded coverage map for WKYC-DT in your area. I've drawn a straight line from the transmitter to your location.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../WKYC-DT-1.jpg


----------



## TimSH

Interesting results with the RCA antenna so far. I'm going to have to try the Terk in the same location.


I tried it out on the balcony and had better luck with 3. 19, on the other hand, decided it was going to be problematic that way.


Inside, in the Soutwest corner of the living room (exterior wall on south, facing next apartment on west) element positioned roughly in a line from SE to NW, I get 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 and 49. Can't get 25 or 55, which I could get before. I can if I fiddle with it, but that wipes out 19 and 3. I'd rather get the major networks I suppose.


I'll try the Terk in the same location tomorrow (recording Heroes tonight, so not going to mess with it any more right now). At least I proved I can get it. If I would have realized that the opposite corner of the room would work better, I would have just bought a 25' cable earlier and given it a try... oh well. If the Terk picks up just as well in that position, I'll just return the RCA and save the $60. If not, I'll keep it and just remind myself how much I enjoy not paying $40 a month for lousy cable service.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting results with the RCA antenna so far. I'm going to have to try the Terk in the same location.
> 
> 
> I tried it out on the balcony and had better luck with 3. 19, on the other hand, decided it was going to be problematic that way.
> 
> 
> Inside, in the Soutwest corner of the living room (exterior wall on south, facing next apartment on west) element positioned roughly in a line from SE to NW, I get 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 and 49. Can't get 25 or 55, which I could get before. I can if I fiddle with it, but that wipes out 19 and 3. I'd rather get the major networks I suppose.
> 
> 
> I'll try the Terk in the same location tomorrow (recording Heroes tonight, so not going to mess with it any more right now). At least I proved I can get it. If I would have realized that the opposite corner of the room would work better, I would have just bought a 25' cable earlier and given it a try... oh well. If the Terk picks up just as well in that position, I'll just return the RCA and save the $60. If not, I'll keep it and just remind myself how much I enjoy not paying $40 a month for lousy cable service.



Your situation is very similar to mine. Just go with the 25' cable like I did, and that will allow you to place your Terk wherever it works best. For me, the outdoor antenna was too bulky for my balcony, and the very very slightly better performance wasn't worth it. If you play around with your Terk by putting it in various locations, you may be able to find the location where you can receive all channels at once. It took me a while, but I found a spot in my apartment storage room where I can get everything and not have to see the antenna. The Terk is a very compact and good antenna for an indoor. I can now get WOIO and WKYC with no problem here in Akron. Good luck!!


I would also like to say that I wish I could get WVIZ-DT. Their power is not much more than that of a light bulb. I get absolutely nothing from their signal, not even any indication that it's existent. I want to see some PBS HD, so hopefully they'll go full power soon.


----------



## TimSH

I did a little experimenting this morning with the Terk in the same location as the RCA. No joy. Worse performance than where it was before. I will have to do some more playing with them, but it's looking like the RCA is going to be the only thing I've got that works for 3 where I'm at. The Terk is great for the UHF stuff, but with 3 being on VHF, it's just not cutting it. Slightly weaker performance on UHF for the RCA, but maybe 25 will boost their power at some point in the next year and a half. Also, was getting 55 with the Terk. Not with the RCA, but since I don't have small children at home and I'm not into wrasslin, it's not a big deal. Truth be told, I couldn't name a single program on 55.


----------



## HD MM

Still no EPG for WBNX 55.1 on E*. It's been up for a few weeks now. What's the deal?


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did a little experimenting this morning with the Terk in the same location as the RCA. No joy. Worse performance than where it was before. I will have to do some more playing with them, but it's looking like the RCA is going to be the only thing I've got that works for 3 where I'm at. The Terk is great for the UHF stuff, but with 3 being on VHF, it's just not cutting it. Slightly weaker performance on UHF for the RCA, but maybe 25 will boost their power at some point in the next year and a half. Also, was getting 55 with the Terk. Not with the RCA, but since I don't have small children at home and I'm not into wrasslin, it's not a big deal. Truth be told, I couldn't name a single program on 55.



Hey TimSH, I forgot to mention that I'm also using a separate RadioShack amplifier with the Terk HDTVa. It helps for me, so you might want to give that a try. You mentioned that the RCA antenna had an amplifier, so that might be a reason that it's working better than the Terk.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Be careful with amplified antennas, they tend to overload on strong signals. You should not need an amplifier at 11 miles.


A high gain antenna without amplification will do better than a average antenna with amplification.


----------



## Tom in OH

What happened WOIO? 50 minutes into 'NCIS', 19-1 disappeared ota.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What happened WOIO? 50 minutes into 'NCIS', 19-1 disappeared ota.



No idea, but it went back up shortly thereafter.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No idea, but it went back up shortly thereafter.



It's fine here now too,

thx.


The reception from 19 & 3 has been better than average the last month or so, (except last week during those storms). That is, of course, if the refrigerator isn't turning on or off, and no one is microwaving or vacuuming... ^_^


----------



## TimSH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What happened WOIO? 50 minutes into 'NCIS', 19-1 disappeared ota.



I'm almost glad to hear it wasn't just me. With all the experimenting with the new antenna, I thought it might be a problem on my end.


----------



## JJkizak

OTA with 19.1----Occasionally there are anomolies in the world of electronics.


JJK


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm almost glad to hear it wasn't just me. With all the experimenting with the new antenna, I thought it might be a problem on my end.



Early in my HDTV days I remember beating my head against the wall one Sunday morning trying to dial in 19-1 for the Browns game. It was snowing outside... Could it be the snow? Different antennas, different cables. Nothing worked.


Then all of a sudden, 19-1 was on the air. Back then WOIO didn't turn the digital transmitter on until noon. Doh.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What happened WOIO? 50 minutes into 'NCIS', 19-1 disappeared ota.



Thanks for the heads up Tom. I checked my recordings on the S3 and sure enough 10 minutes missing from NCIS and 15 minutes missing from The Unit.


I was able to get NCIS from Amazon Unbox which will load directly to my S3. The Unit however I will have to obtain from, well let's just say "other" sources.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Unit however I will have to obtain from, well let's just say "other" sources.



By "other" sources I'm sure you mean the free and legal path of watching the full episode on the "innerTube." Which is likely faster viewing than from any "other" source.









http://www.cbs.com/primetime/the_unit/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By "other" sources I'm sure you mean the free and legal path of watching the full episode on the "innerTube." Which is likely faster viewing than from any "other" source.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cbs.com/primetime/the_unit/



Of course. Yes. Absolutely. Nothing better then sitting down to watch a television show with your wife on your computer monitor.


----------



## TLaz

I saw a HDTV program between 9am and 10am today on WEAO-DT. There was even a local weather alert superimposed on the picture. Hopefully this means that many who live in NE Ohio will finally have access to OTA PBS HDTV programming soon.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course. Yes. Absolutely. Nothing better then sitting down to watch a television show with your wife on your computer monitor.



Wouldn't you need to watch a video obtained from other sources on a monitor/display connected to a computer or are you waiting for the DVD? I'm confused since if I need to watch a television show from the internet regardless of source I usually connect it to my TV.


----------



## Tim Lones

Off-Topic here..But I started a blog in Late March dealing with Classic or Nostalgic Radio/TV in Cleveland and NE Ohio, along with occasional thoughts on current broadcasting topics..it's called Cleveland Classic Media..

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.com/ 


Writing isnt terribly deep or scholarly..just trying to make sure the facts I have are correct and having fun with something I enjoy a lot..


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Off-Topic here..But I started a blog in Late March dealing with Classic or Nostalgic Radio/TV in Cleveland and NE Ohio, along with occasional thoughts on current broadcasting topics..it's called Cleveland Classic Media..
> 
> http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> Writing isnt terribly deep or scholarly..just trying to make sure the facts I have are correct and having fun with something I enjoy a lot..



I saw your blog mentioned on the Ohio Media Watch blog. I saw your name and I thought to myself I "know" Tim from the DBS Forums and the AVS forums










Best of luck with your new blog!


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still no EPG for WBNX 55.1 on E*. It's been up for a few weeks now. What's the deal?




I thought this was automatic through the download. WBNX say they have guide data on the channel, E* says they don't. I told a "level 2 tech" (I say this because they had to transfer me to someone else in the tech dept!) about the issue and he submitted something to the engineering department.


It's just a waiting game now. It really makes it a pain to record anything. I set up a manual timer for Veronica Mars. It was REALLY bad with pixelation though. I think I read others had troubles as well....


----------



## JJkizak

Veronica Mars is getting dumped. Don't know when.

JJK


----------



## jtscherne

Just an FYI,


I'm getting OTA guide info for WBNX-DT from DirecTV.


I'm getting a very good signal in South Euclid.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought this was automatic through the download. WBNX say they have guide data on the channel, E* says they don't. I told a "level 2 tech" (I say this because they had to transfer me to someone else in the tech dept!) about the issue and he submitted something to the engineering department.
> 
> 
> It's just a waiting game now. It really makes it a pain to record anything. I set up a manual timer for Veronica Mars. It was REALLY bad with pixelation though. I think I read others had troubles as well....


----------



## Ben Music

Out here in North Ridgeville I have the guide info for 55-1 on the Tivo s3, but not Directv. However, I'm not getting any signal on either one. The s3 sent me an auto message the other day that it had found a new OTA station. When I checked it was indeed 55-1, but no picture or sound. The strange thing about this is that when they did there first test using a color bar only screen, it came in fine. I wonder if they are now on the air with low power. Does anyone out here in Lorain Co. receive it with good picture and sound? If not, maybe TWC will add it to their lineup. One could only hope.


Ben Music


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just an FYI,
> 
> 
> I'm getting OTA guide info for WBNX-DT from DirecTV.
> 
> 
> I'm getting a very good signal in South Euclid.



Hot Dogs! 55-1 is on the guide here too(thx jtscherne). And guess what? I have a signal and it's pretty darn strong. "Reba" is on and just a few minor sparkles so far. Although the show is an upconvert with bars on lt & rt. and most of you know this makes me sad cuz there's no way to stretch an hd signal.


Anyway, I'm glad to see it show up. Nice job WBNX.


----------



## Inundated

I'm also seeing OTA guide info for WBNX-DT...which I don't think I saw the last time I checked.


I was seeing occasional non-signal-related pixellation the other day, but haven't seen it yet on Smallville tonight.


Maybe they've got this nailed down!


Oh, I'm sure WBNX will be on TWC at some point. Heck, they thought cable would be their only feed back in October!


----------



## SteveC

Same here. I was able to watch Smallville in HD last night on WBNX for the first time. I tried last Thursday but all I could pull in was a signal that was wildly varying in strength and was unwatchable. Last night the signal was pretty steady. I only had a couple dropouts during the entire show. It's been a long wait.


----------



## icicle22

Has channel 5 changed anything lately regarding their HD broadcast? I have Massillon cable TV and I can usually bypass the converter box and tune in all the broadcast channels using the QAM tuner in my TV. All of a sudden channel 5.1 is gone. I can tune in all other locals but not 5.1.


I do receive it on my Digital Cable box however. So.....what's up? Anything?


Thanks.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has channel 5 changed anything lately regarding their HD broadcast? I have Massillon cable TV and I can usually bypass the converter box and tune in all the broadcast channels using the QAM tuner in my TV. All of a sudden channel 5.1 is gone. I can tune in all other locals but not 5.1.
> 
> 
> I do receive it on my Digital Cable box however. So.....what's up? Anything?
> 
> 
> Thanks.





The WEWS broadcast on 5.1 has been gone for about 6 weeks

As WKYC's 3.1


We now get some great RAP music on 5.1 LOL

And the Animal Channel on 3.1 Bravo on 3.2


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has channel 5 changed anything lately regarding their HD broadcast? I have Massillon cable TV and I can usually bypass the converter box and tune in all the broadcast channels using the QAM tuner in my TV. All of a sudden channel 5.1 is gone. I can tune in all other locals but not 5.1.
> 
> 
> I do receive it on my Digital Cable box however. So.....what's up? Anything?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Massillon Cable probably shuffled those missing channels to another QAM frequency, so you'll need to tell your tuner to rescan and reaquire those channels.

If you still can't pick them up after rescanning, then Massillon probably encrypted them by mistake, and you should call their customer service and explain that your local channels should all be "in-the-clear" and unencrypted.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Be careful with amplified antennas, they tend to overload on strong signals. You should not need an amplifier at 11 miles.
> 
> 
> A high gain antenna without amplification will do better than a average antenna with amplification.



Antennas and amplifiers are not an exact science. In general it is better to get a large antenna, and a variable amplifier with FM trap. That way you can turn the amplifier up and down and turn the FM trap on and off. You can even get a "UHF" antenna and "VHF" antenna and only amplify one of the two depending on what works better.


Antennas, amplifiers, and traps all involve the acceptance of some frequencies and rejection of other frequencies. A small change in any one of them (including turning/tilting the antenna) can make a big difference in signal quality.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Massillon Cable probably shuffled those missing channels to another QAM frequency, so you'll need to tell your tuner to rescan and reaquire those channels.
> 
> If you still can't pick them up after rescanning, then Massillon probably encrypted them by mistake, and you should call their customer service and explain that your local channels should all be "in-the-clear" and unencrypted.





Did it weeks ago


WEWS is on 113.5

WKYC is on 112.1


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Antennas and amplifiers are not an exact science. In general it is better to get a large antenna, and a variable amplifier with FM trap. That way you can turn the amplifier up and down and turn the FM trap on and off. You can even get a "UHF" antenna and "VHF" antenna and only amplify one of the two depending on what works better.
> 
> 
> Antennas, amplifiers, and traps all involve the acceptance of some frequencies and rejection of other frequencies. A small change in any one of them (including turning/tilting the antenna) can make a big difference in signal quality.



Unfortunately you can't tune an amplifier to only amplify a specific channel. As long as there is one strong channel in the same band it will overload an amplifier, and an attenuator will not help since when you turn the amp down you are also further weakening the channel you want to boost.


OTOH a high-gain antenna can be cut to frequency. You can amplify that antenna separately, if necessary, however it would be better to stack several high gain antennas (precisely spaced). This is how professional installations are done (such as cable head ends or MATV systems found on apartment complexes).


----------



## JJkizak

And it is difficult to find an amp with a noise figure as good as the tuner in your new TV. You can tell when you hook up the amp and the picture is worse.

JJK


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did it weeks ago
> 
> 
> WEWS is on 113.5
> 
> WKYC is on 112.1



Any chance you can point me to any of the other channels? I did rescan the channels and I still can't find some of the other HDs that I used to get. ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT.....are these out there anywhere? Good to see someone else who is on Massillon Cable who know a good amount about this also.


Thanks.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any chance you can point me to any of the other channels? I did rescan the channels and I still can't find some of the other HDs that I used to get. ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT.....are these out there anywhere? Good to see someone else who is on Massillon Cable who know a good amount about this also.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Veronica Mars is getting dumped. Don't know when.
> 
> JJK



I wouldn't say for sure....

http://www.tv.com/veronica-mars/show...lk=headlinessh


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any chance you can point me to any of the other channels? I did rescan the channels and I still can't find some of the other HDs that I used to get. ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT.....are these out there anywhere? Good to see someone else who is on Massillon Cable who know a good amount about this also.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



This could be a PSIP issue with Massilon Cable. There might be a missing CVCT table in the mpeg PIDs for those qams.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any chance you can point me to any of the other channels? I did rescan the channels and I still can't find some of the other HDs that I used to get. ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT.....are these out there anywhere? Good to see someone else who is on Massillon Cable who know a good amount about this also.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



You really shouldn't be getting ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT "in-the-clear" - they are usually encrypted and part of a premium HD tier. Sorry, no more free lunch.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You really shouldn't be getting ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT "in-the-clear" - they are usually encrypted and part of a premium HD tier. Sorry, no more free lunch.




Those are not part of the premuim tier.


----------



## Ben Music

Is anyone in Lorain County able to receive WBNX-HD (CH 55.1) OTA?


Ben Music


----------



## icicle22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You really shouldn't be getting ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT "in-the-clear" - they are usually encrypted and part of a premium HD tier. Sorry, no more free lunch.



Well Since I am paying for them I wouldn't say it's a free lunch. On rare occassions I have been recording 2 channels on my DVR and I would switch to my QAM tuner to watch a third. So....it is not like I am doing anything illegal.


Besides I just checked and they are included as part of their HD package at no additional charge. So they aren't actually premium channels. The premiums have never come in over QAM anyway.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well Since I am paying for them I wouldn't say it's a free lunch. On rare occassions I have been recording 2 channels on my DVR and I would switch to my QAM tuner to watch a third. So....it is not like I am doing anything illegal.
> 
> 
> Besides I just checked and they are included as part of their HD package at no additional charge. So they aren't actually premium channels. The premiums have never come in over QAM anyway.



What I'm saying is it would not be wise of the cable company to have ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, etc. "in-the-clear" because anyone could go buy a TV with a QAM tuner and plug it in the wall, and get those channels without necessarily subscribing to a more expensive digital cable package. The HD package is a "premium" tier so to speak -- in other words you pay extra to get a bunch of HD channels. Now if you had a cablecard equipped TV, and got it authorized by the cable company, then you would be able to pick up ESPNHD, etc. without a set top box. Without a cablecard in your TV, the cable company has no way to "address" your TV and tell it that icicle22 already pays for these channels, so give him his ESPN HD, etc.


----------



## icicle22

Beats me. All I know is "I" pay for it and I am used to it. Whenever they take something away from you it is never good!


Peace!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is it would not be wise of the cable company to have ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, etc. "in-the-clear" because anyone could go buy a TV with a QAM tuner and plug it in the wall, and get those channels without necessarily subscribing to a more expensive digital cable package. The HD package is a "premium" tier so to speak -- in other words you pay extra to get a bunch of HD channels. Now if you had a cablecard equipped TV, and got it authorized by the cable company, then you would be able to pick up ESPNHD, etc. without a set top box. Without a cablecard in your TV, the cable company has no way to "address" your TV and tell it that icicle22 already pays for these channels, so give him his ESPN HD, etc.


----------



## dunner

Since I just finished figuring this out on an Olevia 537H, I thought somebody else might find it useful:


81-108 WEAO

81-112 WVIZ

85-101 WVPX

90-1 WOIO-HD

90-2 WUAB-HD

90-6 The Tube

115-3 WKYC-HD

115-4 WEWS-HD

115-5 WeatherPlus

116-1 PBS-HD

116-2 WJW-HD


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hmmm, does anyone have the listing of channels via QAM for Time Warner?? It would be very useful for me if someone could please post it or PM me please.

zip = 44721 (Canton/N.Canton)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dunner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since I just finished figuring this out on an Olevia 537H, I thought somebody else might find it useful:
> 
> 
> 81-108 WEAO
> 
> 81-112 WVIZ
> 
> 85-101 WVPX
> 
> 90-1 WOIO-HD
> 
> 90-2 WUAB-HD
> 
> 90-6 The Tube
> 
> 115-3 WKYC-HD
> 
> 115-4 WEWS-HD
> 
> 115-5 WeatherPlus
> 
> 116-1 PBS-HD
> 
> 116-2 WJW-HD



Massillon cable guys: as you can see, Cox has their **** together and aren't leaking anything other than Cleveland locals QAM in-the-clear. The lineup above is really all you can expect. Anything else is gravy.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Massillon cable guys: as you can see, Cox has their **** together and aren't leaking anything other than Cleveland locals QAM in-the-clear. The lineup above is really all you can expect. Anything else is gravy.




I get all of those except 85-101 WVPX


The others I get are part of the expanded Basic service

At least that is what I was told by MCTV


To make it simple if it is on Basic and Expended Basic we are getting it.


On that Weather Plus I take it that is WKYC we also get WOIO Weather


----------



## Tim Lones

Here is what I was getting a couple of months ago on my JVC 30" HDTV Tuner with Time Warner..My main TV watching is on Dish Network , but I do have Digital Phone and Roadrunner.


80-1 WKYC 3 NBC Cleveland (Now 101-1)

80-2 WKYC Weather Plus (Now 101.2)

80-3, 108.2 WUAB 43 Cleveland Now (101.3)

94-1 Bravo

94-2 WTOV 9 NBC Steubenville, Oh.

94-9 WYFX 17/62 FOX Youngstown

100-1 WTVG 13 ABC Toledo

100-2, 104-3 WEWS 5 ABC Cleveland

100-3 Discovery

100-4 Food Network

100-5 E!

104-1 WJW 8 FOX Cleveland

104-2 WOIO 19 Weather Now

*107.5 Game Show Network (Recently added)

108-1 WOIO 19 CBS Cleveland

108-3 WUAB 43-2 "The Tube" Cleveland

122-6 NBA League Pass Preview

123-5 WIVM-LP 52 Canton, Ohio

124-1, 124-12 On Demand Previews

124-4 Biography Channel

124-9 Time Warner Cable Ad Channel


124-4 appears to be a rotating "sampling" of various networks..TBS and I think TNT have shown up recently but I am not sure what numbers they are on. Also, Numbers may be different in other TWC areas or even other TV's


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is what I was getting a couple of months ago on my JVC 30" HDTV Tuner with Time Warner..My main TV watching is on Dish Network , but I do have Digital Phone and Roadrunner.
> 
> 
> 80-1 WKYC 3 NBC Cleveland (Now 101-1)
> 
> 80-2 WKYC Weather Plus (Now 101.2)
> 
> 80-3, 108.2 WUAB 43 Cleveland Now (101.3)
> 
> 94-1 Bravo
> 
> 94-2 WTOV 9 NBC Steubenville, Oh.
> 
> 94-9 WYFX 17/62 FOX Youngstown
> 
> 100-1 WTVG 13 ABC Toledo
> 
> 100-2, 104-3 WEWS 5 ABC Cleveland
> 
> 100-3 Discovery
> 
> 100-4 Food Network
> 
> 100-5 E!
> 
> 104-1 WJW 8 FOX Cleveland
> 
> 104-2 WOIO 19 Weather Now
> 
> *107.5 Game Show Network (Recently added)
> 
> 108-1 WOIO 19 CBS Cleveland
> 
> 108-3 WUAB 43-2 "The Tube" Cleveland
> 
> 122-6 NBA League Pass Preview
> 
> 123-5 WIVM-LP 52 Canton, Ohio
> 
> 124-1, 124-12 On Demand Previews
> 
> 124-4 Biography Channel
> 
> 124-9 Time Warner Cable Ad Channel
> 
> 
> 124-4 appears to be a rotating "sampling" of various networks..TBS and I think TNT have shown up recently but I am not sure what numbers they are on. Also, Numbers may be different in other TWC areas or even other TV's



Thanks Tim, I appreciate it. That's pretty much what I am getting too. I subscribe only to analog BASIC lifeline service for like $13/month so...


I was surprised when I was getting Bravo, Discovery, E, etc... Wanted to see if I was suposed to get those in the clear or if I was just lucky. I also wanted to know if I should be getting PBS-HD or even TNT-HD. Guess not.


Some of those channels have been moved though in the last several weeks, so if need be, you may want to do a rescan.


I wonder if I would be able to add any more HD channels via cable-card without subscribing to to their pricey "expanded basic" service. Do you know, or does anyone here know if that's possible?


----------



## HD MM

Anyone else have a problem with WJW FOX 8.1 OTA last night?


I was watching the Cav's live on TNT-HD. Following the game I attempted to watch 24, which I DVR'd. It was completely unwatchable with all of the breakups.







The weather conditions were perfect last night and I very rarely have troubles with this channel. What was the deal?


----------



## icicle22

Wondering if anyone can advise reagarding QAM tuning. My TV does not seem to want to go higher that 110. I am not able to get to anything above that and it appears that is where several of the channels have been moved to. When setting up my autoscan I can choose:


Cable (standard)(IRC)(HRC)


WHich one of these is the best to use with Massillon cable? Standard doesn't return squat. I have found that (HRC) seems to get mose of the digital channels but I end up with dozens and dozens of stations in the 90 range that have nothing on them.


Any help would be great. I tried to go to 112.xx last might to see if I can get WEWS 5.1 out of Cleveland and I can't.


Thanks!


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else have a problem with WJW FOX 8.1 OTA last night?
> 
> 
> I was watching the Cav's live on TNT-HD. Following the game I attempted to watch 24, which I DVR'd. It was completely unwatchable with all of the breakups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The weather conditions were perfect last night and I very rarely have troubles with this channel. What was the deal?




Did not have one break-up out in Twinsburg. Watched it back on my ViP622 without a problem. A lot of times, nicer weather can lead to a worse signal than bad weather. I could be wrong, but I think I have heard that an overcast day is better than a clear day as the signals tend to bounce on the clouds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone else have a problem with WJW FOX 8.1 OTA last night?
> 
> 
> I was watching the Cav's live on TNT-HD. Following the game I attempted to watch 24, which I DVR'd. It was completely unwatchable with all of the breakups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The weather conditions were perfect last night and I very rarely have troubles with this channel. What was the deal?



Confirming what ClevelandRob says recorded on my S3 via TW, looked perfect.


----------



## HD MM

Screw it.







This season of 24 has been awful anyways.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Screw it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This season of 24 has been awful anyways.....



Did you use the SA 8300? Until I got the S3 I thought most of those problems were broadcast related.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wondering if anyone can advise reagarding QAM tuning. My TV does not seem to want to go higher that 110. I am not able to get to anything above that and it appears that is where several of the channels have been moved to. When setting up my autoscan I can choose:
> 
> 
> Cable (standard)(IRC)(HRC)
> 
> 
> WHich one of these is the best to use with Massillon cable? Standard doesn't return squat. I have found that (HRC) seems to get mose of the digital channels but I end up with dozens and dozens of stations in the 90 range that have nothing on them.
> 
> 
> Any help would be great. I tried to go to 112.xx last might to see if I can get WEWS 5.1 out of Cleveland and I can't.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



With my TV, (with TWC) "standard" setting gets me about 400 "signals" but among the "signals" are a few standard cable stations (Channel 71-76) and the digital, as listed above (previous post) HRC and IRC dont seem to work as well..but i'll try them again tonight just to see..


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone in Lorain County able to receive WBNX-HD (CH 55.1) OTA?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Hi Ben,


I am also unable to receive WBNX-HD on the S3 in North Ridgeville. When they first brought the channel up a few weeks ago it came in pretty good OTA. Now, there is nothing. I wonder if Tivo has the frequency wrong in the channel information? There have been reports of this happening in other parts of the country. I'll have to try to hook the antenna up directly to the TV to see if there's signal or not.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you use the SA 8300? Until I got the S3 I thought most of those problems were broadcast related.



No, cable is for the birds. I used my trusty ViP622. The problem was with the OTA reception not the DVR.


I have my OTA connected 2 ways. #1: a direct connection to my TV's input. #2: a connection to the DVR input. This allows me to periodically monitor the difference, if any, between a "direct connection" and a connection that is filtered through my 622. (There was drop-outs with the direct-connection also).


Must have had something to do with the lack of clouds yesterday, like Rob said.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With my TV, (with TWC) "standard" setting gets me about 400 "signals" but among the "signals" are a few standard cable stations (Channel 71-76) and the digital, as listed above (previous post) HRC and IRC dont seem to work as well..but i'll try them again tonight just to see..



I believe TWC is IRC. Nowadays most TVs and cable boxes just detect the proper version automaticly.


----------



## TimSH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> 
> I am also unable to receive WBNX-HD on the S3 in North Ridgeville. When they first brought the channel up a few weeks ago it came in pretty good OTA. Now, there is nothing. I wonder if Tivo has the frequency wrong in the channel information? There have been reports of this happening in other parts of the country. I'll have to try to hook the antenna up directly to the TV to see if there's signal or not.



Don't know if it's changed frequencies... I do know it was up then down, then up, then down, then up again.


Every time it disappeared, I deleted the channel, so it may have changed and re-added when I re-scanned a few days later.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As long as there is one strong channel in the same band it will overload an amplifier, and an attenuator will not help since when you turn the amp down you are also further weakening the channel you want to boost.



I must disagree with this assessment. I live three miles from WNEO's transmitter in Salem, OH. I'm about 55 miles from the Cleveland transmitters and about 55 miles from most of the Pittsburgh transmitters. I was unable to receive some Cleveland and Pittsburgh stations that I felt I should receive with my CM 4228 antenna. I decided to install a CM Titan II 7777 mast mounted amplifier. I knew that WNEO would probably overload the front end of my Dish 622 receiver but it was worth taking the risk. The 7777 provides 26 dB of low distortion amplification in the UHF band.


I was able to receive some additional stations, but I was still not getting all that I thought I should. I was sure the front end of the receiver was being overloaded. The station I really wanted to receive was WQED, the full time HD PBS affiliate in Pittsburgh, and it was not coming in. As an experiment, I placed the 10 dB attenuator that was provided with the 622 receiver between the 7777 amplifier power supply and the input of the 622. That did it! I received WQED with a rock solid signal strength of 75 on the 622. I also received the stations I thought I should receive that I could not tune in previously.


I have since refined the attenuation needed for each channel by using a Kay Elemetrics step attenuator that I purchased on eBay. I've attached a picture of the attenuator.


----------



## icicle22

Sorry to keep asking little pesky things but.....did anyone have trouble with WKYC 3.1 last evening between 10-11pm during law and order SVU? I recently swapped out my old Motorola 6412 phase III DVR with a Motorola 3416 because is has a higher capacity. I am concerned it is my cable box.


During SVU (which I watched delayed between 11-12pm) there were hundreds of dropouts. Some were minor, annoying blocks on the screen but audio continued while others were major and the picture would digitally breakup for 4-5 seconds at a time, making me miss important dialogue and plot points. Also, there seemed to be something wrong with the audio. It sounded like a transistor radio behind a blanket. The commercials were normal however so I am wondering if there was a problem with the program feed.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry to keep asking little pesky things but.....did anyone have trouble with WKYC 3.1 last evening between 10-11pm during law and order SVU? I recently swapped out my old Motorola 6412 phase III DVR with a Motorola 3416 because is has a higher capacity. I am concerned it is my cable box.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



We had WKYC on last night for a short time and it was full of dropouts. I tried to watch 3-2 for a weather update but it was unwatchable. I think it was due to the storms. Everything is fine now.


----------



## icicle22

Thanks! I feel better.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We had WKYC on last night for a short time and it was full of dropouts. I tried to watch 3-2 for a weather update but it was unwatchable. I think it was due to the storms. Everything is fine now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icicle22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks! I feel better.



Not to make you feel bad but I have to tell you I went through my recording of L&O SUV and CI for good measure and I didn't see any break up or hear any sound problems. Of course I did FF through it but the type of break ups your talking about I would have seen. TW cable via TiVo S3.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I must disagree with this assessment. I live three miles from WNEO's transmitter in Salem, OH. I'm about 55 miles from the Cleveland transmitters and about 55 miles from most of the Pittsburgh transmitters. I was unable to receive some Cleveland and Pittsburgh stations that I felt I should receive with my CM 4228 antenna. I decided to install a CM Titan II 7777 mast mounted amplifier. I knew that WNEO would probably overload the front end of my Dish 622 receiver but it was worth taking the risk. The 7777 provides 26 dB of low distortion amplification in the UHF band.
> 
> 
> I was able to receive some additional stations, but I was still not getting all that I thought I should. I was sure the front end of the receiver was being overloaded. The station I really wanted to receive was WQED, the full time HD PBS affiliate in Pittsburgh, and it was not coming in. As an experiment, I placed the 10 dB attenuator that was provided with the 622 receiver between the 7777 amplifier power supply and the input of the 622. That did it! I received WQED with a rock solid signal strength of 75 on the 622. I also received the stations I thought I should receive that I could not tune in previously.
> 
> 
> I have since refined the attenuation needed for each channel by using a Kay Elemetrics step attenuator that I purchased on eBay. I've attached a picture of the attenuator.



That is a perfect example of how the combination of antenna/pointing, amplifier, and attenuator can work together to get the signal you are looking for. Keep in mind however, that if the amplifier was not adjustable then the adjustable attenuator may have just been negating a portion of the amplification. Like 3 steps forward - 2 steps back.


But the process can be further fine tuned if you have two different antennas of different sizes, different types, pointed differently, and/or amplified differently. You could end up with one that receives Cleveland great, one that receives Pittsburgh great, and by summing them together get one signal that is acceptable for both.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't know if it's changed frequencies... I do know it was up then down, then up, then down, then up again.
> 
> 
> Every time it disappeared, I deleted the channel, so it may have changed and re-added when I re-scanned a few days later.



Last night I checked and still had no signal on 55-1. I re-ran a channel scan on the S3 and then checked for signal strength a second time. It didn't tell me that it changed anything with WBNXDT, but it now showed up with a pretty decent 80% lock. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## cneubert




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just an FYI,
> 
> 
> I'm getting OTA guide info for WBNX-DT from DirecTV.
> 
> 
> I'm getting a very good signal in South Euclid.



I'm not getting the guide data for 55-1 from DirecTV. Is there something I can do to get it? What receiver do you have? I'm using the HR10-250.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm using the HR-20. It just showed up one day, so I don't know why you aren't getting the data.


----------



## Inundated

Just tuned into WBNX-DT OTA here, with no problem... I haven't noticed it being down. It also has the PSIP-based guide data, and has for a week or two...


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cneubert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not getting the guide data for 55-1 from DirecTV. Is there something I can do to get it? What receiver do you have? I'm using the HR10-250.



Still no guide data from E* either, using ViP622. There is obviously a problem here and it is getting pretty inexcusable at this point.










Good thing I don't watch anything on the WB anyways.







And by not having the guide available it sure doesn't help the cause.


BTW, what is the point of 55.1, 55.2, 55.3? All simultaneously broadcasting the same thing on all three channels. What a waste!


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still no guide data from E* either, using ViP622. There is obviously a problem here and getting pretty inexcusable at this point.



I've called DiSH several times about the matter. They say they are looking into it.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cneubert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not getting the guide data for 55-1 from DirecTV. Is there something I can do to get it? What receiver do you have? I'm using the HR10-250.



I just checked and I'm getting the guide data on my HR20 for 55 and 55-1. Maybe you need to unplug the receiver/cold boot to force it to redownload the guide data?


----------



## Tom in OH

cneubert,

the guide data for 55-1 is showing on the hr10-250 (but not 55.2,55.3). Are u receiving data for the other Cleveland channels(3-1,8-1,19-1...)?


----------



## Dweezilz

I'm a few days late to the party, but my SA8300HD DVR'd 24 on FOX with no issues at all.


Also, Time Warner updated the software again yesterday. At first I thought there was something wrong with my box because the picture kept going in and out on HDMI with the unauhtorized message, but after I rebooted, it was fine and it was then that I discovered that it had the new software. Looks like we didn't have to wait over a year this time...let's how they finally keep it!!


----------



## HD MM

Anyone ever been to the Mayfield Hts. Boneyard yet?


I have been there a few times to eat and went last night to specifically watch the Cav's game and throw down a few adult beverages. Upon leaving I can honestly say it is without a doubt one of the best places to watch a sporting event!


The reason.... There is 5 large 16:9 projection screens that you can see from anywhere in the bar/eating area. All are powered by HD projectors and are capable of showing different games on each screen. 4 smaller screens (150" each) flank the main screen in the middle. The main screen is 300" (25 foot) diagonal!







Are you kidding me?! This has got to be the largest public HD screen in the nation! Another thing is that they unplug the jukebox at the start of a game and broadcast the play-by-play through the bar's speakers.


They have quite a thing going here. I can't imagine going to another bar and watching a game on a 4:3 SD TV anymore. Anyone have any other experiences of HD at bars?


----------



## TimSH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone ever been to the Mayfield Hts. Boneyard yet?
> 
> 
> I have been there a few times to eat and went last night to specifically watch the Cav's game and throw down a few adult beverages. Upon leaving I can honestly say it is without a doubt one of the best places to watch a sporting event!



I have to agree. It is awesome for that reason alone...


One tip, though, if you plan to eat a meal... eat someplace else first. Stick to snacks and your favorite adult beverage there (with a designated driver, of course). The food is less than spectacular in my opinion.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Keep in mind however, that if the amplifier was not adjustable then the adjustable attenuator may have just been negating a portion of the amplification.



The 7777 amplifier is not adjustable. It provides 26 dB of amplification in the UHF band full time.


I took some screen shots of the digital stations I receive early yesterday evening.

Here's the link to 'em:

http://picasaweb.google.com/salemtub...ey=UWlXghA-GmI 


I do not receive channel 4 full time. Its transmitter is 70 miles away, just southeast of Pittsburgh.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone ever been to the Mayfield Hts. Boneyard yet?
> 
> 
> I have been there a few times to eat and went last night to specifically watch the Cav's game and throw down a few adult beverages. Upon leaving I can honestly say it is without a doubt one of the best places to watch a sporting event!
> 
> 
> The reason.... There is 5 large 16:9 projection screens that you can see from anywhere in the bar/eating area. All are powered by HD projectors and are capable of showing different games on each screen. 4 smaller screens (150" each) flank the main screen in the middle. The main screen is 300" (25 foot) diagonal!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding me?! This has got to be the largest public HD screen in the nation! Another thing is that they unplug the jukebox at the start of a game and broadcast the play-by-play through the bar's speakers.
> 
> 
> They have quite a thing going here. I can't imagine going to another bar and watching a game on a 4:3 SD TV anymore. Anyone have any other experiences of HD at bars?



Thanks for the review! I have decided to not renew my NFL Sunday Ticket this year and have been looking for a great place to go see my Bengals.







I will definitely go check it out. I can't wait for football!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the review! I have decided to not renew my NFL Sunday Ticket this year and have been looking for a great place to go see my Bengals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will definitely go check it out. I can't wait for football!



The Bungles? Are you kidding me? This is Brown's town!


BTW, thanks for Steinbach. He will look real nice in Brown and Orange, lined up next to J.Thomas!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to agree. It is awesome for that reason alone...
> 
> 
> One tip, though, if you plan to eat a meal... eat someplace else first. Stick to snacks and your favorite adult beverage there (with a designated driver, of course). The food is less than spectacular in my opinion.



I agree it's no Morton's Steak-House, but I will have to say the food is above average for a bar.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 7777 amplifier is not adjustable. It provides 26 dB of amplification in the UHF band full time.



Your improved reception with these components has intrigued me, unfortunately, I am a little lost as to the mechanics (well actually electronics) of how this works. I looked up the 7777 amp on the CM website and it did say it amplifies VHF and UHF separately (therefore adjustable?). But what is it that the attenuator does? I do have an amplified antenna, but I just can't keep a lock on the majority of the digitals (I'm 23 miles from the antenna farm). Do you dial in this step attenuator everytime you change a channel? Is it powered? Are regular attenuators something I can get at Radio Shack just to see if it improves my reception? Like I said, just trying to understand this in the hopes I could benefit from it as well.


----------



## cneubert




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> cneubert,
> 
> the guide data for 55-1 is showing on the hr10-250 (but not 55.2,55.3). Are u receiving data for the other Cleveland channels(3-1,8-1,19-1...)?



I get guide data for all of the other Cleveland Channels. I have tried re-scanning for Channels and rebooting and still no luck. I have 2 HR10's and neither is getting the guide data for 55-1. The DirecTV low-def 55 DOES have guide data.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Did enyoneone else have trouble with NBC-HD on TW last night? Ready to watch ER then at exactly 10:00 it went black and my tv said "channel not available". Had to watch the season finale in SD







. I went to bed at 12:30 and it was still not there. This morning at 8:30 I decided to check it and it was back on. Does anyone know waht happened? This is Time Warner QAM channel 101.1


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to agree. It is awesome for that reason alone...
> 
> 
> One tip, though, if you plan to eat a meal... eat someplace else first. Stick to snacks and your favorite adult beverage there (with a designated driver, of course). The food is less than spectacular in my opinion.



One more thing about the Boneyard - when the weather is nice, they have an outdoor patio facing Mayfield Rd. with a few Panny 42" plasmas out there. They had ESPN in actual HD instead of SD stretch like so many bars do. The patio is covered so you can be out there even if it rains.


----------



## paule123

Not sure if it's been mentioned here, but I found this sticky yesterday:


"CBS Doubles HD Coverage Of NFL

The network says it will show five or six games each week in high-def. "

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=838266 


So the chances of seeing our Browns in HD has greatly improved !


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Bungles? Are you kidding me? This is Brown's town!
> 
> 
> BTW, thanks for Steinbach. He will look real nice in Brown and Orange, lined up next to J.Thomas!



Whodey! The Bungles died four years ago. It could be worse. At least I'm not a Steeler fan!


No doubt about it, the Browns have had an amazing off-season. Steinbach was a great pickup. He will be sorely missed by the Bengals. I'm looking forward to a couple of real slug fests in the battle of Ohio this year.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did enyoneone else have trouble with NBC-HD on TW last night? Ready to watch ER then at exactly 10:00 it went black and my tv said "channel not available".



It must have been a Time Warner thing as I was tuned into 3-1 around 10 PM last night and ER was on. D* HR-20 MPEG4 Local Feed - that at least means that 3-1 was broadcasting OTA OK.


Given I DVR most shows, I can't even go back and watch SD once I realize there was a problem with the HD feed. Fortunately HD is much more stable around here than it used to be...


----------



## hookbill

I noticed on my SA HD STB that in the guide there is no data for Mojo (774) last night. Checked again today and still no guide data. Any other TW people see this?


Data on my S3 is fine, but that comes from a different source.


----------



## jbones

I have a problem with my HDTV antenna that started a week or so ago. When the leaves seemed to fill in. I have a Winegard 7080p and every station comes in at almost 100% except fox 8.1. It comes in between 70-80. The problem I have is that Fox 8.1 doesn't seem to be a stable signal, it bounces up down from 0-85 and makes it unwatchable. Before the leaves grew in I did not have this problem. What is causing this only on this station? The leaves? I am in the Bainbridge area. Thanks!


----------



## brh-z2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed on my SA HD STB that in the guide there is no data for Mojo (774) last night. Checked again today and still no guide data. Any other TW people see this?
> 
> 
> Data on my S3 is fine, but that comes from a different source.



Mojo guild information has been off for a few days on my SA8300. The shows are there, just no guide info. TW cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mojo guild information has been off for a few days on my SA8300. The shows are there, just no guide info. TW cable.



I just called customer service. Of course no one has called to inform them this.







They wanted me to reboot my computer, etc. followed by a truck roll. I told them just to contact head end.


If it doesn't get fixed in a few days I'll call my contact at head end and give them a heads up.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fox 8.1 doesn't seem to be a stable signal, it bounces up down from 0-85 and makes it unwatchable. Before the leaves grew in I did not have this problem.



While the folks at Winegard told me leaves drastically reduce OTA reception, I have been so far surprised that since I installed my Sensar III last fall I have not seen a dramatic drop off of reception of the digital stations as I have very tall cherry trees less than 30' from my antenna. That said, though, I do not get very good reception out of 5.1 or 8.1. 3.1 on the other hand has been rock solid. I have not seen any major difference in my reception over the past month as the leaves have grown in either. So what I'm tending to believe that weather and other obstructions play just as important a part of reception as trees and leaves do. Some days I get 8.1 good enough to watch, other days, its unwatchable. Your antenna is only rated for 15 miles. I would check with antennaweb.org to see how far you are from the transmitters. You might do better with a pre-amp (or amplified) antenna.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While the folks at Winegard told me leaves drastically reduce OTA reception, I have been so far surprised that since I installed my Sensar III last fall I have not seen a dramatic drop off of reception of the digital stations as I have very tall cherry trees less than 30' from my antenna. That said, though, I do not get very good reception out of 5.1 or 8.1. 3.1 on the other hand has been rock solid. I have not seen any major difference in my reception over the past month as the leaves have grown in either. So what I'm tending to believe that weather and other obstructions play just as important a part of reception as trees and leaves do. Some days I get 8.1 good enough to watch, other days, its unwatchable. Your antenna is only rated for 15 miles. I would check with antennaweb.org to see how far you are from the transmitters. You might do better with a pre-amp (or amplified) antenna.



It is also a good idea to check with the antennaweb website for distance, position, and frequency. From your short list, 3.1 is VHF and 5.1/8.1 are UHF. If your antenna (based on size, position, construction) is better for VHF, you may fix this particular problem by adding an antenna made for UHF.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your improved reception with these components has intrigued me, unfortunately, I am a little lost as to the mechanics (well actually electronics) of how this works. I looked up the 7777 amp on the CM website and it did say it amplifies VHF and UHF separately (therefore adjustable?). But what is it that the attenuator does? I do have an amplified antenna, but I just can't keep a lock on the majority of the digitals (I'm 23 miles from the antenna farm). Do you dial in this step attenuator everytime you change a channel? Is it powered? Are regular attenuators something I can get at Radio Shack just to see if it improves my reception? Like I said, just trying to understand this in the hopes I could benefit from it as well.



I believe what is happening is that the 7777 amp boosts all UHF and/or VHF signals by 26dB. This is rather on the high side, so it may have also boosted unwanted noise. Then by adding the adjustable attenuator (normally not powered), the UHF (and maybe VHF) signals are reduced by a smaller amount, say 10dB. The result may have left some channels boosted by 16dB (26-10), some at 26dB, some (hopefully noise) at -10dB, and some untouched.


These sorts of parts do not have to be changed for every channel. You just have to play a little on several different channel types to find out what combination works for your setup and location.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a problem with my HDTV antenna that started a week or so ago. When the leaves seemed to fill in. I have a Winegard 7080p and every station comes in at almost 100% except fox 8.1. It comes in between 70-80. The problem I have is that Fox 8.1 doesn't seem to be a stable signal, it bounces up down from 0-85 and makes it unwatchable. Before the leaves grew in I did not have this problem. What is causing this only on this station? The leaves? I am in the Bainbridge area. Thanks!



I'd guess the bouncing is a multi-path problem that you're seeing now due to the leaves that you didn't have before.


I run a Weingard Square Shooter w/pre-amp and have had some issues with 5.1 bouncing like that. I've been able to adjust the tilt & skew (for lack of a better word) of the antenna when 5.1 was bouncing to get it to stabilize. The trick is then to dial in an antenna position where 5.1 doesn't bounce, but the other channels aren't down to much that it causes reception problems. For my 5.1 issues it seemed to be just certain days/environmental conditions and wasn't a constant factor like leaves.


Next time 8-1 is bouncing for you it might be worth the effort to bring a signal strength meter up on the TV and try adjusting the antenna to see if there's a magic point that works for you & gets rid of the bounce. Your antenna is much different than mine though so you may see less results adjusting, but it can't hurt to try. At least presuming your antenna is accessible.


----------



## jbones

Actually the range is listed at 35 - 60 miles. Like I said the other stations come in at almost 100% now and before the leaves. 3.1,5.1,19.1 are never a problem and remain stable without any fluctuation in the signal. I just wondered if in fact was the trees while only one station is being effected. I will have to try to go on the roof and see if i can find a sweet spot to keep it from bouncing around. I was originally told that I should have a preamp installed according to antennaweb. I don't because at the time of install everything was coming in fine and the installer and I didn't see the need for it. Does anyone think it would help with this problem and if so what type of preamp should I get. Thanks..


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cneubert* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get guide data for all of the other Cleveland Channels. I have tried re-scanning for Channels and rebooting and still no luck. I have 2 HR10's and neither is getting the guide data for 55-1. The DirecTV low-def 55 DOES have guide data.



I think it's because D* hasn't updated your receivers yet. It's probably the same way they do the firmware upgrades - by receiver #. We have 2 also and they received the upgrades 3 wks. apart(connected to same phone line).


The day 55-1 showed up in the guide, the tuner had been changed to channel 201 during the night, which meant some sort of upgrade took place. Hopefully your guide info will showup soon. Keep us posted.


----------



## Sesummers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's pretty much what I am getting too. I subscribe only to analog BASIC lifeline service for like $13/month so...



Am I understanding you correctly- are you saying that with Time Warner (Akron?) Lifeline cable, I can get unencrypted QAM signals for all the local channels? If there's a reasonable chance of that, I'll have to experiment. I have a Media Center system with a pair of Cat's Eye 150 digital tuners, and I'm pretty sure the software that comes with them can do QAM (although media center can't). But if that works, I'll dump the 150's and get one of those Silicon Dust dual tuners that supposedly remaps QAM to make it work with MC.


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Bungles? Are you kidding me? This is Brown's town!
> 
> 
> BTW, thanks for Steinbach. He will look real nice in Brown and Orange, lined up next to J.Thomas!



I have to agree with this guy. Joe Thomas AND Brady Quinn, how awesome is that?


I'll check out the Boneyard when I'm 21...my fake doesn't work outside of Athens. Oh well, 8 months to go.


On a sidenote: Courtside in Athens (the best bar in Athens) shows ESPNHD and other HD channels. Other bars show stretched SD on their flatpanels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to agree with this guy. Joe Thomas AND Brady Quinn, how awesome is that?
> 
> 
> I'll check out the Boneyard when I'm 21...my fake doesn't work outside of Athens. Oh well, 8 months to go.
> 
> 
> On a sidenote: Courtside in Athens (the best bar in Athens) shows ESPNHD and other HD channels. Other bars show stretched SD on their flatpanels.



You mean to say that you're a minor and you break the law by drinking alcohol with a fake ID. Let me tell you something. When I was a minor there were no fake ID's so we had to find clever ways to break the law on our own.


Kids today. Worthless.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your improved reception with these components has intrigued me, unfortunately, I am a little lost as to the mechanics (well actually electronics) of how this works. I looked up the 7777 amp on the CM website and it did say it amplifies VHF and UHF separately (therefore adjustable?). But what is it that the attenuator does? I do have an amplified antenna, but I just can't keep a lock on the majority of the digitals (I'm 23 miles from the antenna farm). Do you dial in this step attenuator everytime you change a channel? Is it powered? Are regular attenuators something I can get at Radio Shack just to see if it improves my reception? Like I said, just trying to understand this in the hopes I could benefit from it as well.



PTXer, kinglerch's explanation is essentially what I believe is happening. The attenuator may also be helping with some multipath issues. There is a cell tower about a city block away from my home. He wrote:

_

I believe what is happening is that the 7777 amp boosts all UHF and/or VHF signals by 26dB. This is rather on the high side, so it may have also boosted unwanted noise. Then by adding the adjustable attenuator (normally not powered), the UHF (and maybe VHF) signals are reduced by a smaller amount, say 10dB. The result may have left some channels boosted by 16dB (26-10), some at 26dB, some (hopefully noise) at -10dB, and some untouched.


These sorts of parts do not have to be changed for every channel. You just have to play a little on several different channel types to find out what combination works for your setup and location._


=========================================================


An attenuator reduces the signal strength. The Kay Elemetrics step attenuator is not powered; it is a passive device. You can buy attenuators at Solid Signal. Here's a link to a variable one that they offer: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=1296F 


The 7777 has two inputs, one for a VHF only antenna and one for a combination VHF/UHF or UHF only antenna. Each input is amplified separately. The 7777 amplifiers are not adjustable. I have an FM band Yagi antenna connected to the VHF input, but it does not have enough gain for me to receive WOIO-DT (RF 10). I doubt I could receive WKYC-DT (RF 2) even with enough gain because of interference from KDKA in Pittsburgh. KDKA's analog broadcast is on channel 2. The noise figure for the 7777 is 2 dB, which is the lowest noise consumer amplifier that I know of. There are expensive professional amplifiers that have lower noise figures.


I usually leave the attenuator at 10 dB, but I need to reduce that to 7 dB for Pittsburgh channel WQED, and I need to increase it to 13 dB for WPGH-DT, channel 53 of Pittsburgh, which broadcasts on RF channel 43. I'm probably getting some interference from WUAB's analog broadcast on channel 43.


I know of no reason that you shouldn't be able to receive all of the Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown stations with the proper setup unless there is a hill or other obstruction between you and the stations you are trying to receive. If I were in your location, I would probably try a large combination VHF/UHF antenna along with a rotator. I would not use an amplifier. Foliage alone should not be enough to cause you to be unable to receive the Cleveland stations. It is also possible that you are experiencing multipath, in which case a rotator will be of great benefit.


I'm going to add a high band (VHF channels 7-13) Yagi antenna in the future. I hope to pick up WOIO-DT (RF 10) with it. I'll also need it when the analog shut off occurs in February of 2009. WOIO plans to stay on RF channel 10. WJW, WTOV and WQED plan to move from their current digital channels to their analog frequencies at that time.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sesummers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Am I understanding you correctly- are you saying that with Time Warner (Akron?) Lifeline cable, I can get unencrypted QAM signals for all the local channels? If there's a reasonable chance of that, I'll have to experiment. I have a Media Center system with a pair of Cat's Eye 150 digital tuners, and I'm pretty sure the software that comes with them can do QAM (although media center can't). But if that works, I'll dump the 150's and get one of those Silicon Dust dual tuners that supposedly remaps QAM to make it work with MC.



Yes. I have lifeline basic... in Canton though. I was having trouble getting a good signal when I first tried and almost gave up, till I decided to add a PCT amplifier/splitter to the line and low and behold I now get the QAM signals. Sometimes I get breakups on the signal and don't know if that's normal with cable or if it's because I'm barely getting a signal due to the fact that I shouldn't be. I really don't know, but good luck in your endevor.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An attenuator reduces the signal strength. The Kay Elemetrics step attenuator is not powered; it is a passive device. You can buy attenuators at Solid Signal.



Salemtube, Thanks for the explanation. This seems like something I should experiment around with. It does appear from my analog stations that I do have some multi-path issues. While I do have tall trees and a medium hill in my way, I do get most of the Cleveland digitals off and on depending on the day (or weather). The small stealth antenna that I have may not be the best for my situation, but the wife didn't want a big antenna on top of the house







. Once the analog transmissions go away and the spotty digital reception gets to be annoying, maybe she'll let me try a bigger antenna (and a rotor too). Again thanks for the details. The theory of reducing amplification may be what I need since I am right on the fringe area of short distance antenna and medium to long distance antenna.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, what is the point of 55.1, 55.2, 55.3? All simultaneously broadcasting the same thing on all three channels. What a waste!



It would appear that the plan is:


55.1 - WBNX-HD (CW HD in primetime, SD upconverted to 1080i)

55.2 - WBNX-DT (SD 480i, I'm presuming, meant to feed cable systems a 24/7 SD feed)

55.3 - WBNX-3 (perhaps the long-rumored "second channel", SD 480i, to do such things as run Rev. Angley's TV shows and other programming...this got brought up on his "Ninety and Nine Club" a ways back, in part in response to the main channel moving the show out of prime time to run "Friends" reruns)


I suspect at one point, WBNX-DT 55.2 will go away. Remember, WKYC did this on 3.2 before WeatherPlus showed up.


Oh, and WBNX isn't a WB affiliate anymore, since the network doesn't exist







It's The CW now, of course, which really isn't any more relevant to me after the name change...


----------



## cneubert




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a problem with my HDTV antenna that started a week or so ago. When the leaves seemed to fill in. I have a Winegard 7080p and every station comes in at almost 100% except fox 8.1. It comes in between 70-80. The problem I have is that Fox 8.1 doesn't seem to be a stable signal, it bounces up down from 0-85 and makes it unwatchable. Before the leaves grew in I did not have this problem. What is causing this only on this station? The leaves? I am in the Bainbridge area. Thanks!



I used to have problems with a certain channel bouncing up and down too. It turned out to be that the signal was too strong. I got a variable attenuator from Radio Shack and dialed it down a bit and that stabilized it. The fact that you are getting 100% on all other channels makes me think that this could be your problem as well and it probably wouldn't hurt those channels if you reduced the signal strength a bit. Maybe the weather is giving you better reception or fox's signal output has been changed to make the signal stronger than it was before.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It would appear that the plan is:
> 
> 
> Oh, and WBNX isn't a WB affiliate anymore, since the network doesn't exist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's The CW now, of course, which really isn't any more relevant to me after the name change...



Well, not exactly.


Warner Brothers still has an interest in it, along with CBS. Hence the CW name.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It would appear that the plan is:
> 
> 
> 55.1 - WBNX-HD (CW HD in primetime, SD upconverted to 1080i)
> 
> 55.2 - WBNX-DT (SD 480i, I'm presuming, meant to feed cable systems a 24/7 SD feed)
> 
> 55.3 - WBNX-3 (perhaps the long-rumored "second channel", SD 480i, to do such things as run Rev. Angley's TV shows and other programming...this got brought up on his "Ninety and Nine Club" a ways back, in part in response to the main channel moving the show out of prime time to run "Friends" reruns)
> 
> 
> I suspect at one point, WBNX-DT 55.2 will go away. Remember, WKYC did this on 3.2 before WeatherPlus showed up.
> 
> 
> Oh, and WBNX isn't a WB affiliate anymore, since the network doesn't exist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's The CW now, of course, which really isn't any more relevant to me after the name change...



Why would WBNX-DT need to have a SD channel on 55-2 if other channels don't have it? That sounds like an extremely stupid idea in that it would waste valuable space for HD content.


Whatever they decide to do as far as multicasting, I hope that they put some decent programming on their other channel. Someone had mentioned retro programming, which I would really like, but I don't know how anyone would've gotten this idea or if that speculation has any merit.


----------



## JJkizak

I went to a website to check the specs for the 7777 and they indeed stated 2.0 db noise figure. This would in practicality put your receiver in the -100 dbm range for 20 db quieting. (900 mghz) This would compare with a $100,000.00 parametric amplifier in the same frequency range. I would have to test that baby myself to see if they are maybe pulling my leg a little bit. A noise figure of 6 or 8 db would put you around -85 dbm for 20 db quieting. Well what the hell, I'll buy it anyway.

JJK


----------



## TLaz

Is it my receiver's problem or is WQHS-DT off air?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it my receiver's problem or is WQHS-DT off air?



We weren't getting the digital version(61-1) last night but the analog was up. I just checked and 61-1 is still out. The only good news -- it's not Tony's receiver... ^_^


----------



## hdhdliving

Hi guys, I'm new in the area and this forum came up in a search. I'm a Time Warner customer and I was wondering if there were any rumors concerning CW in HD via TW.


It's a large thread so if it's already been asked, I apologize in advance.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys, I'm new in the area and this forum came up in a search. I'm a Time Warner customer and I was wondering if there were any rumors concerning CW in HD via TW.
> 
> 
> It's a large thread so if it's already been asked, I apologize in advance.



As of yet I haven't heard anything. Maybe if they don't have it by next fall I may attempt to put a small antenna on my S3 just for that one station. That is if I can convince my wife.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why would WBNX-DT need to have a SD channel on 55-2 if other channels don't have it? That sounds like an extremely stupid idea in that it would waste valuable space for HD content.



Back In The Day (HDTV-wise), WKYC used to waste 3-2 for an SD 480i feed, and used the same excuse about feeding cable systems with it.


At the time, their third subchannel was a low-bitrate weather radar feed.


Somewhere around the time that they added WeatherPlus, they dumped the SD subchannel feed.


Note that nowhere has WBNX announced or even hinted that there will be an SD feed on 55-2. That's just a semi-educated guess on my part, based on the above history, the fact WBNX doesn't have news/weather/etc. to refeed (let alone their own radar), and the labeling of the new 55-3 subchannel as WBNX-3 on the PSIP.


It may not mean anything. They may even put the "extra channel" on 2 and something else on 3. But if they're only adding one subchannel, why 55-3, labeled WBNX-3? That's not a mistake...they had to actively label it that in the PSIP ("WBNX-3").


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi guys, I'm new in the area and this forum came up in a search. I'm a Time Warner customer and I was wondering if there were any rumors concerning CW in HD via TW.



As I mentioned a few messages back, WBNX had originally expected to ONLY be on cable/satellite (in HD) starting back in October. That never happened, and the on-air DT went up first recently.


It would be a safe presumption that they'll be on TWC eventually, based on the above. But I haven't heard anything, either.


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Back In The Day (HDTV-wise), WKYC used to waste 3-2 for an SD 480i feed, and used the same excuse about feeding cable systems with it.
> 
> 
> At the time, their third subchannel was a low-bitrate weather radar feed.
> 
> 
> Somewhere around the time that they added WeatherPlus, they dumped the SD subchannel feed.
> 
> 
> Note that nowhere has WBNX announced or even hinted that there will be an SD feed on 55-2. That's just a semi-educated guess on my part, based on the above history, the fact WBNX doesn't have news/weather/etc. to refeed (let alone their own radar), and the labeling of the new 55-3 subchannel as WBNX-3 on the PSIP.
> 
> 
> It may not mean anything. They may even put the "extra channel" on 2 and something else on 3. But if they're only adding one subchannel, why 55-3, labeled WBNX-3? That's not a mistake...they had to actively label it that in the PSIP ("WBNX-3").



Here's a question, what happens when everything goes digital for those without an HDTV if there's no SD subchannel?


This is assuming someone has a digital SDTV.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a question, what happens when everything goes digital for those without an HDTV if there's no SD subchannel?
> 
> 
> This is assuming someone has a digital SDTV.



The government is going to give every household two $40 coupons to help pay for the cost of an OTA converter box. I assume the box will have the option to letterbox or crop the main HD 16:9 channel on the old 4:3 SDTV.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/index.html


----------



## hdhdliving




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As I mentioned a few messages back, WBNX had originally expected to ONLY be on cable/satellite (in HD) starting back in October. That never happened, and the on-air DT went up first recently.
> 
> 
> It would be a safe presumption that they'll be on TWC eventually, based on the above. But I haven't heard anything, either.



Well then hopefully by next fall. Thanks for the reply.


I have a TiVo S3 so maybe I can put an indoor antenna and pick it up that way. Anyone else in Chagrin Falls area able to get it OTA with an indoor antenna?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone explain why the numbering is messed up, and how I can fix it?



The channels you're receiving are not the broadcasted channels, but are the QAM ATSC channels that Cox provides unencrypted. There's nothing you can do about the numbering except for getting a cable card from Cox which will map them to where they can be found on the Cox channel lineup.


This all seems pretty strange since you don't subscribe to cable service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The channels you're receiving are not the broadcasted channels, but are the QAM ATSC channels that Cox provides unencrypted. There's nothing you can do about the numbering except for getting a cable card from Cox which will map them to where they can be found on the Cox channel lineup.
> 
> 
> This all seems pretty strange since you don't subscribe to cable service.



Get a cable card? Why that would mean he would have to pay for something! Where's your head at?


----------



## T3ddyG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Get a cable card? Why that would mean he would have to pay for something! Where's your head at?



I deleted the post. Clearly I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to receive those channels, I just thought it was OTA broadcast. Sorry if I caused trouble.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *T3ddyG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I deleted the post. Clearly I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to receive those channels, I just thought it was OTA broadcast. Sorry if I caused trouble.



If you truly didn't understand what was going on then that's OK. I guess my response is because I do pay a great deal of money for cable/HD and I get a bit irritated when I see someone talking about how they get HD off the cable for free. Even if you pay for high speed internet that still doesn't give you the right to tap into the cable and get their unencrypted stations. Just because they are unencrypted doesn't mean you're still not stealing cable.


Just my opinion and I probably feel that way not so much from a "moral" perspective but by the simple fact that I don't like to see someone get for free what I pay for. It happens all the time. You really didn't need to delete the post I was just giving you something to think about in my usual sarcastic manner.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I get a bit irritated when I see someone talking about how they get HD off the cable for free.



Do you really think they would have unencrypted HD channels floating around on their system? While I don't subscribe to cable (Time Warner in my area), I know the HD channels are like the top shelf, premium of the premium plans. I would figure just SD local channels (basic "lifeline" package) are what they leave out there unencrypted. Am I wrong?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ya, gimmie a break. TW really doesn't give a crap about you watching their unencrypted local tv channels. They make hundreds of millions of dollars from people with their monopoly on cable tv. If anything, it'll probably give people a taste of what HD really is and will make them want more, so then they'll call Warner and order a nice HD package and rent a bunch of boxes for a total of $200 a month for the rest of their lives.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you really think they would have unencrypted HD channels floating around on their system? While I don't subscribe to cable (Time Warner in my area), I know the HD channels are like the top shelf, premium of the premium plans. I would figure just SD local channels (basic "lifeline" package) are what they leave out there unencrypted. Am I wrong?



Yes, you are wrong. TWC usually have the local digital broadcast channels that they carry (read as local HD channels) unencrypted in their stream along with some channels they sometimes don't intend to leave unencrypted. This is pretty common practice among the big cable operators (TWC, Comcast, etc).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you really think they would have unencrypted HD channels floating around on their system? While I don't subscribe to cable (Time Warner in my area), I know the HD channels are like the top shelf, premium of the premium plans. I would figure just SD local channels (basic "lifeline" package) are what they leave out there unencrypted. Am I wrong?



To follow up on what TerryFoster said, when I first got my S3 without cable cards I was able to get unencrypted HD channels, along with some other unecrypted digital channels (like the music channels). The only one I couldn't get was FOX for some reason.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ya, gimmie a break. TW really doesn't give a crap about you watching their unencrypted local tv channels. They make hundreds of millions of dollars from people with their monopoly on cable tv. If anything, it'll probably give people a taste of what HD really is and will make them want more, so then they'll call Warner and order a nice HD package and rent a bunch of boxes for a total of $200 a month for the rest of their lives.



Well, Smarty-pants (I've been dying to say that)







yes I think TW does care if you're stealing cable. If you don't think so and you're doing it pm me your address and I'll drop a dime on you. Then we will see how much they care.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, Smarty-pants (I've been dying to say that)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes I think TW does care if you're stealing cable. If you don't think so and you're doing it pm me your address and I'll drop a dime on you. Then we will see how much they care.



I pay for basic cable Bill so... no theiving goin' on here. I never said they didn't care if you're stealing cable.


There is a reason it's called unencrypted. I guess if someone was not a cable subscriber and was receiving cable and watching it, that could be concidered stealing in the eyes of an ultra-concervative do-gooder.


There is a common term associated with a certain amount of lost revanue taht companies refer to as "shrink". A certain amount of product is going to be used/consumed/stolen and the profit potential for that action is lost. Just like any other company, warner has a shink value figured into their profit margins.

Do they care that they are not squeezing every red cent out of all their customers? I'm sure they do, but let's keep it real. They could really care less in general wether some people are get a few unencrypted channels without bill-pay, because at the end of the day, they're laughing all the way to the bank.


There are many ways you could view this type of situation. One could have the opinion that warner has left their cable attached to the house, so if they want to send any information through that line free of charge then that is on them. If warner doesn't want me to use that line, then they should disconnect it from the house.

To me, that is a viable arguement.

One could also say that warner could put the proper filters on the line, but it's their fault for not doing so.


My brother used to work for TW for many years. They say they audit the lines, but they don't... ever. When it comes down to it, they really DON'T care.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My brother used to work for TW for many years. They say they audit the lines, but they don't... ever. When it comes down to it, they really DON'T care.



When you say your brother worked for TW was it really TW? Or Adelphia? Reason I ask is shortly after Adelphia got taken over by TW they launched a media campaign saying they were going to audit. Now that could have been bs for all I know, but I never saw Adelphia doing that.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When you say your brother worked for TW was it really TW? Or Adelphia? Reason I ask is shortly after Adelphia got taken over by TW they launched a media campaign saying they were going to audit. Now that could have been bs for all I know, but I never saw Adelphia doing that.



It was TW (Canton/Akron). He left maybe about 4-5 years ago. TW actually used to put commercials on tv saying that they were auditing the lines and that if you had an ilegal connection, you could turn yourself in and there would be no penalty or action taken against you. It was toal BS and they never audited the lines.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was TW (Canton/Akron). He left maybe about 4-5 years ago. TW actually used to put commercials on tv saying that they were auditing the lines and that if you had an ilegal connection, you could turn yourself in and there would be no penalty or action taken against you. It was toal BS and they never audited the lines.



I personally know that a crew is auditing in the NEO area as I type this.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a TiVo S3 so maybe I can put an indoor antenna and pick it up that way. Anyone else in Chagrin Falls area able to get it OTA with an indoor antenna?



WBNX-DT is up in the Parma antenna farm with all the other TV stations, and I believe they are running maximum power on their digital station. If you can get digital 3/5/8/19/43, you should get 55 in DT form.


(Well, 3 and 19 are sometimes problem children because they're on the VHF band DT-wise, but 5, 8, 43, 55 and 61 are on UHF digitally.)


I don't recall anyone on here from Chagrin Falls, but an indoor antenna might not be enough from that far out - for any of the Cleveland market stations.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't recall anyone on here from Chagrin Falls, but an indoor antenna might not be enough from that far out - for any of the Cleveland market stations.



I'm in South Russell, just barely outside of Chagrin Falls. I put up a rooftop antenna to get my local HD. I briefly tried an indoor antenna and found that it didn't pull in any of them reliably, and some of them didn't show up at all.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Has anybody heard anything new with AT&T U-verse in our area?


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may have noticed new ATT "reinventing television" billboards around town... This just in -
> 
> 
> Upcoming U-verse rollout dates, from Uverseusers.com:
> 
> 
> Los Angeles May 1
> 
> Detroit May 21
> 
> San Diego June 4
> *Cleveland June 18*
> 
> Oklahoma City Aug 6
> 
> Sacramento Aug 20
> 
> St. Louis Nov 5
> 
> Austin Nov 19
> 
> Columbus Dec 24



I can't find dates anywhere. Where did you find that?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't recall anyone on here from Chagrin Falls, but an indoor antenna might not be enough from that far out - for any of the Cleveland market stations.



I am in Chagrin Falls (306 and Bainbridge). I tried an indoor antenna and also a small antenna outside a window. I got most of the UHF channels from Cleveland and Youngstown in the 60% range. VHF was much more hit and miss with the smaller/indoor antennas.


My best results were from a deep fringe (extra large) antenna with amplifier in the attic. I pointed the "UHF" part of the antenna to get Youngstown and the "VHF" part to get the best out of Cleveland. I can now get all of Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown between 75%-95% strength.


----------



## hdhdliving

Thanks for the help guys. Seems like some real good people here.


I'm only interested in the one channel since I get the rest of the locals from cable, so I will wait until Fall. If TW doesn't have WBNX by then I'll start with an indoor antenna then maybe think about something else if that doesn't work.


I have a feeling I'll get lucky with the indoor antenna since it's just one station, but who knows? Again thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## jtighe

I live in the Mentor Area. In the last several weeks I have had problems picking up WOIO 19-1 and 19-2 Signal is bouncing 0 to 60.. also 8-1 is getting bad. I have been getting them for the last several years ok What has changed in the last several weeks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help guys. Seems like some real good people here.
> 
> 
> I'm only interested in the one channel since I get the rest of the locals from cable, so I will wait until Fall. If TW doesn't have WBNX by then I'll start with an indoor antenna then maybe think about something else if that doesn't work.
> 
> 
> I have a feeling I'll get lucky with the indoor antenna since it's just one station, but who knows? Again thanks for the suggestions.




First, welcome to the forum. You're not far away from where I live, but I have no knowledge of the antenna world (long story). However I am also an S3 owner and I too have thought about adding a small antenna in the fall for WBNX. Really there are only two shows I watch on this channel, Smallville and Supernatural and due to conflicts I've been kind of forced to put Supernatural on my DVD recorder. I sure would like to see both of these shows in HD.


If you get an indoor antenna, please post how it works out for you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody heard anything new with AT&T U-verse in our area?



Isn't that the thing that's now with the legislature? I mean isn't it part of it?


I know the Senate passed the bill and it appears to me that people are supporting the idea. I know the majority here think it's a bad idea and I'm not trying to stir up political controversy again but they seem to have all the cards on their side in their marketing, and of course that's because they have all the money.


I guess we will find out soon. I do have to say the townships that are opposing this seem to be more concerned about revenue then what is best for their people, even if this is a bad idea.


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Isn't that the thing that's now with the legislature? I mean isn't it part of it?
> 
> 
> I know the Senate passed the bill and it appears to me that people are supporting the idea. I know the majority here think it's a bad idea and I'm not trying to stir up political controversy again but they seem to have all the cards on their side in their marketing, and of course that's because they have all the money.
> 
> 
> I guess we will find out soon. I do have to say the townships that are opposing this seem to be more concerned about revenue then what is best for their people, even if this is a bad idea.



Is u-verse a bad idea?


----------



## Tim Lones

Look..I pay for Digital Phone and Roadrunner..The QAM tuner is there, people are going to discover it and watch the channels on it. I am not "stealing" anything. As far as audits, I was audited for TWC's FM package years ago..Not sure if its changed much but I am sure they are still auditing customers..As I have said before..If I am not supposed to have the unencrypted channels, they can turn them off..


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look..I pay for Digital Phone and Roadrunner..The QAM tuner is there, people are going to discover it and watch the channels on it. I am not "stealing" anything. As far as audits, I was audited for TWC's FM package years ago..Not sure if its changed much but I am sure they are still auditing customers..As I have said before..If I am not supposed to have the unencrypted channels, they can turn them off..



They can't turn them off- the HD channels have to use the high band that roadrunner and the digital phone also uses.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look..I pay for Digital Phone and Roadrunner..The QAM tuner is there, people are going to discover it and watch the channels on it. I am not "stealing" anything.



So, let me get this straight. You're using a service that costs money, you're not paying for it, and TWC hasn't authorized you to get it for free.


How is that not stealing? It's like finding a house with the door wide open, it doesn't mean you have the right to walk right in and take whatever you want because you think they should have closed and locked the door to prevent you from doing it. At least have the decency to own up to your actions or be smart enough not to talk about them on an open forum.


I know I have cable tv service running into my house and if I wanted I could be watching it, but since I don't pay for it I have decided to leave it connected only to my cable modem.


----------



## TimSH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, let me get this straight. You're using a service that costs money, you're not paying for it, and TWC hasn't authorized you to get it for free.
> 
> 
> How is that not stealing? It's like finding a house with the door wide open, it doesn't mean you have the right to walk right in and take whatever you want because you think they should have closed and locked the door to prevent you from doing it. At least have the decency to own up to your actions or be smart enough not to talk about them on an open forum.
> 
> 
> I know I have cable tv service running into my house and if I wanted I could be watching it, but since I don't pay for it I have decided to leave it connected only to my cable modem.



I really don't think that's a fair analogy. They're piping the signal into your home, you're not going into someone else's home and taking what's theirs.


The burden should be on TWC to at least make some minimal effort to see to it that they're not piping something you should be paying for into your home without your paying for it. Heck, I didn't even realize it was possible to subscribe to their Internet service without also subscribing to at least some level of Cable TV service as well. When I last checked (last fall when I moved), I was told I couldn't have high speed Internet without subscribing to Cable TV.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really don't think that's a fair analogy. They're piping the signal into your home, you're not going into someone else's home and taking what's theirs.



That's what I was going to say too.


----------



## ClevelandRob

Was anyone pissed like I was that WEWS 5.1 (or the ABC national feed) switched from HD to SD for the last 10 minutes of the Lost season finale??? Way to drop the ball...


Not to mention that American Idle ran late and my wife missed the final minute of the show on the DVR recording. Months of her watching the show and it cuts off when Ryan Toolcrest said "and the winner is..." As much as I hate the show, I felt bad for her... especially since it was her birthday!


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was anyone pissed like I was that WEWS 5.1 (or the ABC national feed) switched from HD to SD for the last 10 minutes of the Lost season finale??? Way to drop the ball...



Yeah that bummed me out too. They appeared to have some audio issues as well. What a GREAT episode though. One of the best season finales I have seen in a while.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> American Idle ran late and my wife missed the final minute of the show on the DVR recording. Months of her watching the show and it cuts off when Ryan Toolcrest said "and the winner is..."



That would really suck. I hope she didn't blame you... But that's live TV for ya.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look..I pay for Digital Phone and Roadrunner..The QAM tuner is there, people are going to discover it and watch the channels on it. I am not "stealing" anything. As far as audits, I was audited for TWC's FM package years ago..Not sure if its changed much but I am sure they are still auditing customers..As I have said before..If I am not supposed to have the unencrypted channels, they can turn them off..



Hey. If you don't feel you're doing anything wrong then that's fine. I could understand that, I'm not perfect many times I've received something for nothing and not said anything about it.


But the fact that you are using a QAM tuner to pick up a signal that you don't pay for still makes it stealing. Even if it's being piped into you're house. You can justify it anyway you like but it still doesn't take away the fact that you are receiving something that others have to pay for.


And if it makes you feel any better I'm pretty sure I would do the same thing to and wouldn't feel the least bit guilty. But I would still know it was stealing.


----------



## mde71




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was anyone pissed like I was that WEWS 5.1 (or the ABC national feed) switched from HD to SD for the last 10 minutes of the Lost season finale??? Way to drop the ball...



Yes I was _really_ ticked off about it. There have been at least 5 episodes of Lost this season where WEWS screwed up the HD broadcast. I have never seen it happen on any other network, not even once. I blame Ted Henry.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mde71* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes I was _really_ ticked off about it. There have been at least 5 episodes of Lost this season where WEWS screwed up the HD broadcast. I have never seen it happen on any other network, not even once. I blame Ted Henry.



Well, that gives me something to look forward too when I get around to watching that episode.







Oh well, I'd rather know about it ahead of time that way I won't get too excited when it happens.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mde71* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I blame Ted Henry.



That was my initial reaction.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really don't think that's a fair analogy. They're piping the signal into your home, you're not going into someone else's home and taking what's theirs.



I certainly is a fair analogy. Just be cause you have the opportunity and you can justify it by saying they should have shut and locked the door, doesn't mean it's legal to take what you want.


I'll try this one then. It's like using someone else's wireless internet from inside your home just because they don't encrypt the access. It's still illegal (at least in some places), but just because it's there and available doesn't mean it's right to use it.


Like hookbill said, any way you justify it, it's still stealing. You may or may not feel guilty about it, I certainly know I wouldn't have at some points in my life.


----------



## Smarty-pants

*TAG-TEAM SOAP-BOX DERBY*


----------



## TimSH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I certainly is a fair analogy. Just be cause you have the opportunity and you can justify it by saying they should have shut and locked the door, doesn't mean it's legal to take what you want.
> 
> 
> I'll try this one then. It's like using someone else's wireless internet from inside your home just because they don't encrypt the access. It's still illegal (at least in some places), but just because it's there and available doesn't mean it's right to use it.
> 
> 
> Like hookbill said, any way you justify it, it's still stealing. You may or may not feel guilty about it, I certainly know I wouldn't have at some points in my life.



Your point about wireless is valid. And it is illegal in some areas. In others (and in some cases, even where it is illegal) though, the owner is legally responsible for what happens on their network unless they've at least made some rudimentary effort (MAC address filtering or basic encryption for example) to restrict access. If it's left wide open, the owner is complicit in whatever crime might be committed using that network.


(I know this is getting off topic)


It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. Though I think that TWC would have a hard time if they wanted to press the issue claiming that you should have paid for something they were pumping into your home "without your consent" to begin with. Seems like negligence on their part to me.


I'm sure this could keep a barrel of lawyers busy for quite some time.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was anyone pissed like I was that WEWS 5.1 (or the ABC national feed) switched from HD to SD for the last 10 minutes of the Lost season finale??? Way to drop the ball...
> 
> 
> Not to mention that American Idle ran late and my wife missed the final minute of the show on the DVR recording. Months of her watching the show and it cuts off when Ryan Toolcrest said "and the winner is..." As much as I hate the show, I felt bad for her... especially since it was her birthday!



FYI --- The WEWS feed OTA was just fine. It did not switch to SD at any time during the Lost finale. Believe me... I would have been pissed off too if that happened. There were a few audio troubles. But that seems to be the norm during Lost.


Perhaps the feed to the cable company got screwed up????


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI --- The WEWS feed OTA was just fine. It did not switch to SD at any time during the Lost finale. Believe me... I would have been pissed off too if that happened. There were a few audio troubles. But that seems to be the norm during Lost.
> 
> 
> Perhaps the feed to the cable company got screwed up????



Cable gets it OTA just like everyone else.










Well, when I get around to watching it I'll guess I'll find out.


----------



## SKoprowski

Legally, TWC cannot encrypt local channels that are for free over the air. If you have high speed internet access- there is really nothing they can do- you can't block the HD QAM channels without blocking your internet access- both function on the high band. I have had internet through TWC without TV service since I moved to this area in 2002. Maybe they changed the policy since then. I use Directv for my tv.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Legally, TWC cannot encrypt local channels that are for free over the air



There's alot of confusion surrounding this topic and I'm pretty sure they can encrypt local digital channels. Cable operators are required to provide a version of the local channels they carry on the most basic tier of service. That requirement is currently covered by the analog channels. It may be a different story come 2009, but until then most cable operators are offering digital locals unencrypted either as a requirement of the retransmission agreement, generosity, or a number of other reasons.


Here's an excerpt from a FCC document discussing the cable carriage of DTV broadcasts:


Begin quote :


132. As discussed above, Section 623(b)(7)(A) of the Act requires that the basic tier on a rate regulated system include all signals carried to fulfill the must carry requirements of Sections 614 and 615 and any signal of any television broadcast station that is provided by the cable operator to any subscriber. . .384 *We believe that it would facilitate the digital transition to permit cable operators that are carrying a broadcast station's analog signal on the basic tier to carry that broadcast station's digital signal on a digital tier pursuant to retransmission consent.*


:end quote


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtighe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in the Mentor Area. In the last several weeks I have had problems picking up WOIO 19-1 and 19-2 Signal is bouncing 0 to 60.. also 8-1 is getting bad. I have been getting them for the last several years ok What has changed in the last several weeks



What has changed is the atmosphere. Your WOIO-DT signal is probably getting interference form the analog CFPL-TV in London Ontario. WOIO-DT is transmitted on rf channel 10 which is the same channel as CFPL-TV. I used to live in Euclid, CFPL used to come in nearly as clear as a local channel every summer when the atmospheric conditions allowed the signal to skip across the lake.


Why WOIO wants to be on ch 10 is beyond me. Canadian analog TV will still be on the air long after the U.S. ends the transition to digital.


Your problem with WJW may be due to another Canadian station on ch 31 which is an analog CITY-TV repeater and/or an Ann Arbor ch 31 that I also used to get in Euclid.


To fight the interference you would need a highly directional antenna precisely aimed at the Parma antenna farm.


----------



## Jigga Moog

I ran into a at&t road work crew today at wendy's in Rocky River and asked him if he knew about u-verse and he said that they are installing it today and they have been for a while.He said they are trying a mid-june go live date. I am pretty excited about this because it seems like a good idea and it will save me $50 a month and I will get more service.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Waht exactly is U-verse and where can I learn more?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Waht exactly is U-verse and where can I learn more?


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Verse


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why WOIO wants to be on ch 10 is beyond me.



It's simple. Raycom, the owner of WOIO, is cheap. WOIO-DT operates its transmitter at 3.5 kW ERP. If WOIO-DT were in the UHF band, it would require far more power to broadcast its signal. By staying on RF channel 10, WOIO-DT will have a low electric bill.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's simple. Raycom, the owner of WOIO, is cheap. WOIO-DT operates its transmitter at 3.5 kW ERP. If WOIO-DT were in the UHF band, it would require far more power to broadcast its signal. By staying on RF channel 10, WOIO-DT will have a low electric bill.



I don't know if you've seen this in the previous pages, but here is WOIO's digital coverage...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WOIO-DT.jpg 


As you can see, it sucks. The red area doesn't cover much land. Compare it to the coverage for WEWS-DT, which actually has a workable signal over much of the populated area...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WEWS-DT.jpg


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's simple. Raycom, the owner of WOIO, is cheap. WOIO-DT operates its transmitter at 3.5 kW ERP. If WOIO-DT were in the UHF band, it would require far more power to broadcast its signal. By staying on RF channel 10, WOIO-DT will have a low electric bill.



What good is a low electric bill if they can't get a good signal out to their entire market area? They are counting on cable to fill-in the gaps in their signal which is not a good idea. Right now they have unofficial competition from WKBN-DT which is putting out a fantastic signal which overlaps a good portion of the WOIO viewing area. Unfortunately the WKBN-DT signal is blocked from Lake County by terrain. That area probably has the hardest time getting WOIO-DT due to the skip of CFPL-TV across the lake.


I only wish someone from Raycom could read these facts and change their minds regarding their final digital assignment. The Cleveland market would be best served If they were to go back to ch 19 as digital. Then we would have 15, 17, & 19 as our "big 3" affiliates. A special UHF antenna could be cut to maximize reception on this portion of the UHF band. Since the 3 stations' towers are very close to each other most viewers would see all 3 from the same location.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I only wish someone from Raycom could read these facts and change their minds regarding their final digital assignment. The Cleveland market would be best served If they were to go back to ch 19 as digital. Then we would have 15, 17, & 19 as our "big 3" affiliates. A special UHF antenna could be cut to maximize reception on this portion of the UHF band. Since the 3 stations' towers are very close to each other most viewers would see all 3 from the same location.




Raycom management has "stubborn mule" mentality, similar to a certain occupant of the White House....but I digress.


They are fully aware of their coverage area but they obviously don't think the market at this time for HDTV is still that big. The fact that they set up 5.1 equipment and sent it back right after the Super Bowl is proof positive they do not intend to move to quickly to HD. The only reason they have any HD right now is because the network (CBS) forces them to.


So the only true solution for this is either cable or satellite. Because otherwise nothing is going to change, now or in the future.


----------



## terryfoster

I would guess they'll care about WOIO-DT's coverage in 2009, but until then their bread and butter is still WOIO-TV.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only reason they have any HD right now is because the network (CBS) forces them to.



Thank goodness cuz Jennifer Lov... I mean, the show "Ghost Whisperer" looks great in HD ^_^.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Waht exactly is U-verse and where can I learn more?


 http://uverse.att.com 

http://www.uverseusers.com 


I thought I'd be one of the first guinea pigs to try U-Verse, but the HD quality gets bad reviews. The Microsoft set top box software also seems to be flaky. Since the only thing I watch anymore is HD, U-Verse is a non-starter for me until they fix their issues.


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://uverse.att.com
> 
> http://www.uverseusers.com
> 
> 
> I thought I'd be one of the first guinea pigs to try U-Verse, but the HD quality gets bad reviews. The Microsoft set top box software also seems to be flaky. Since the only thing I watch anymore is HD, U-Verse is a non-starter for me until they fix their issues.



I think I will still try it because they are giving two months free so I will just keep my cable for two months and cancel whichever is worst.


----------



## Sesummers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes. I have lifeline basic... in Canton though. ... but good luck in your endevor.



IT WORKS! I bought a Silicon Dust HD Homerun box. With Lifeline service and Roadrunner service, I get the following channels unencrypted:

90/21=Music Choice?

101/1=WKYC NBC (3)

101/2=WKYC Weather

101/3=WUAB (43)

104/2=WEWS ABC (5)

104/3=WJW FOX (8)

104/8=WOIO Weather

107/11=GSN

108/1=WOIO CBS (19)

108/2=WUAB (43- twice?)

108/3="The Tube"


I don't get all the channels Tim Lones was mentioning, but maybe more of them are encrypted now. The only ones I'm missing are WBNX (55) and all of the PBS channels (25,45/49), but I get those in analog and rarely watch them anyway.


I think this means the antenna can come down. I'll leave it there for a while just in case, but it won't be connected to my media center anymore. Now, I have to decide whether I need another HD Homerun...


----------



## SuperAmmo

In Russell, OH on my Vizio w/ QAM tuner I'm getting less channels than I did in December when I was last home with my TV.


I get NBCHD, CBSHD, FOXHD, ABCHD, Channel 43 HD, WVIZHD and TNTHD, the HD Bonus channel and a ton of music channels.


Gone is Discovery HD Theater. This stinks.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In Russell, OH on my Vizio w/ QAM tuner I'm getting less channels than I did in December when I was last home with my TV.
> 
> 
> I get NBCHD, CBSHD, FOXHD, ABCHD, Channel 43 HD, WVIZHD and TNTHD, the HD Bonus channel and a ton of music channels.
> 
> 
> Gone is Discovery HD Theater. This stinks.



I have an LG QAM tuner, and was frustrated because everyone but me seemed to be getting Discovery HD in the clear. I have my cable signal split to send to other devices (TV's DVR's etc.). One day I tried taking the cable straight from the wall and into the tuner, and TADA, I got Discovery HD.


After slowly adding the splitter and cables back into my system, I found out that one cable, on another device, had a loose end connector. When I replaced the cable everything was fine.


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have an LG QAM tuner, and was frustrated because everyone but me seemed to be getting Discovery HD in the clear. I have my cable signal split to send to other devices (TV's DVR's etc.). One day I tried taking the cable straight from the wall and into the tuner, and TADA, I got Discovery HD.
> 
> 
> After slowly adding the splitter and cables back into my system, I found out that one cable, on another device, had a loose end connector. When I replaced the cable everything was fine.



I have one splitter coming from the basement to this thing all on RG6, compared to the one splitter coming from an RG59 cable all the way outside up to the second floor, this connection should be much better since I moved the TV downstairs rather than being upstairs in my room with a terrible connection that had trouble picking up 19-1 and 25-1 via QAM and occasionally would have trouble with everything except TNTHD. My signal is much better down here, everything is fine, but still no signs of Discovery HD Theater.


I hear about the goodies that some people seem to be getting via QAM (ESPN2HD I think I heard someone say?), no dice for me.


Are QAM tuners more fickle than, say, cable boxes?


If not, this will cause a TON of headaches if/when TWC tries to force All Digital down our throats.


Actually, if that happens, I'm switching to DirecTV and have them re-wire this house optimally for free installation.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Daaag gone... I'm gonna try disconecting my splitters and run a direct line to my TV w/QAM and see if I pick up any more channels. I DO NOT get Discovery HD (though I do get a standard digital version of it), nor do I get TNT HD, or even PBS HD. So keeping fingers crossed and will probably try it tonight whenever the wife is done watching TV.


----------



## TimSH

Looks like 55 has been bouncing up and down again. Here one minute, completely gone the next, then back without correct channel identification, then gone, then back... oh well. It's a good think I get the analog feed for it OK. I only watch (well, record actually) one or two programs from them, mainly stuff my 15 year old likes, anyway.


Are they even officially live yet when it comes to their digital feed? or are they still just testing?


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TimSH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like 55 has been bouncing up and down again. Here one minute, completely gone the next, then back without correct channel identification, then gone, then back... oh well. It's a good think I get the analog feed for it OK. I only watch (well, record actually) one or two programs from them, mainly stuff my 15 year old likes, anyway.
> 
> 
> Are they even officially live yet when it comes to their digital feed? or are they still just testing?



No problems with reception here.


----------



## Tim Lones

Some Interesting DX on my JVC HD this morning..Using a Philips Amplified MANT510 Indoor antenna. My number of "signals" Usually top out at 25-28 depending on how the antenna is placed. Today I was getting 40-43 consistently..Including


4-1 WTAE Pittsburgh ABC

4-2 WTAE Weather Channel

8-1 WWCP Altoona FOX (Blacked out WJW-TV)

8-2 WATM Altoona ABC

9-1 WTOV Steubenville NBC

9-2 WTOV Weather Plus

11-1 WPXI NBC Pittsburgh

11-2 WPXI Weather Plus

13-1 WQED Pittsburgh PBS

13-2 WQED-Digital 2

16 WQEX Pittsburgh

22 WPMY Analog

22-1 WPMY Pittsburgh MyTV

22-2 WPMY (duplicate of 22-1)

40 WPCB Pittsburgh

40-1 WPCB Digital

44-2 WOUC-Unlimited-Cambridge, Ohio..(simulcast of WOUB-Athens, Ohio Ohio University)

44-3 WOUC-News

44-4 WOUC-Makes

44-5 WOUC On Stage

53 WPGH Fox Pittsburgh


I'd been waiting for a morning like this. The other night i was getting WHIZ analog 18 Zanesville and a weak picture on WNPB-24 analog Morgantown, WVa.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are QAM tuners more fickle than, say, cable boxes?



The cable boxes seem to be able to pick up the QAM signals much better than the typical TV QAM tuner. I've tried different tuners in different houses on different cable systems, splitters, no splitters, with amp, without amp, etc. and it's always a mixed bag.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some Interesting DX on my JVC HD this morning..Using a Philips Amplified MANT510 Indoor antenna. My number of "signals" Usually top out at 25-28 depending on how the antenna is placed. Today I was getting 40-43 consistently..Including
> 
> 
> 4-1 WTAE Pittsburgh ABC
> 
> 4-2 WTAE Weather Channel
> 
> 8-1 WWCP Altoona FOX (Blacked out WJW-TV)
> 
> 8-2 WATM Altoona ABC
> 
> 9-1 WTOV Steubenville NBC
> 
> 9-2 WTOV Weather Plus
> 
> 11-1 WPXI NBC Pittsburgh
> 
> 11-2 WPXI Weather Plus
> 
> 13-1 WQED Pittsburgh PBS
> 
> 13-2 WQED-Digital 2
> 
> 16 WQEX Pittsburgh
> 
> 22 WPMY Analog
> 
> 22-1 WPMY Pittsburgh MyTV
> 
> 22-2 WPMY (duplicate of 22-1)
> 
> 40 WPCB Pittsburgh
> 
> 40-1 WPCB Digital
> 
> 44-2 WOUC-Unlimited-Cambridge, Ohio..(simulcast of WOUB-Athens, Ohio Ohio University)
> 
> 44-3 WOUC-News
> 
> 44-4 WOUC-Makes
> 
> 44-5 WOUC On Stage
> 
> 53 WPGH Fox Pittsburgh
> 
> 
> I'd been waiting for a morning like this. The other night i was getting WHIZ analog 18 Zanesville and a weak picture on WNPB-24 analog Morgantown, WVa.



HOLY CRAP! With an indoor antenna none-the-less. You must be on the highest peak in Canton. Do you mind if I ask your specific location?


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HOLY CRAP! With an indoor antenna none-the-less. You must be on the highest peak in Canton. Do you mind if I ask your specific location?



I am at about Ninth St. and Wertz Avenue Southwest..A block or so from Aultman Hospital. I normally get nohing from VHF and 17, 23, 45, and 67 (with digitals) The strongest with 21, 27 and 49 (and digitals) coming in as well depending on antenna placement..I am on a small hill, but notthing especially high..


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The cable boxes seem to be able to pick up the QAM signals much better than the typical TV QAM tuner. I've tried different tuners in different houses on different cable systems, splitters, no splitters, with amp, without amp, etc. and it's always a mixed bag.



It makes sense. There are relatively few models of cable boxes compared to CE devices out there, and they receive much more scrutiny in terms of meeting industry performance specifications. Set top boxes are typically tested by the labs that certify these devices for use in cable systems, while CE devices are allowed to have "self-certification" performed by their manufacturers.


----------



## Ben Music

Item #1.


The TWC guy from the Elyria office was here the other day to install cable cards in my Tivo S3. The card in slot 2 seems to work fine, but card in slot 1 doesn't work. I can only get Ch 2 thru 99. When looking at the test and card info screens, I noticed that the 2 (Motorola) cards had different version numbers. The card that doesn't work (slot 1) is version 405. The card that works (slot 2) is version 421. Does any know if both cards need the same version number to be able to work togther in the same box?


Item #2


Out here in North Ridgeville I'm still having problems picking up WBNX-55hd. I get perfect reception on every other digital/HD channel, except of course WVIZ-25hd. I have a very large OTA UHF/VHF outdoor antenna with roter. I have an Tivo S3, a Directv Tivo 10-250, and Moto cable box.

Both Tivo boxes show guide Info, but no signal at all. Is their tower at the Parma antenna farm, or located someplace else?


Item #3


When the TWC card guy was here the other day, I asked him if he had heard any news about when the Moto to SA cable box switchout was going to start in Lorain Co., and other former Comcast areas. He shocked me when he said that TWC has decided not to use the OLD SA boxes, but replace them with brand new Samsung HDTV/DVR units. Great news if you ask me. Has anyone else heard

about this? If there is any TWC insiders out there, can you find out when this might start? (My guess July 07) Also, could you find out the Samsung model # so we can start checking out specs, features, hard drive space, etc.


Thanks and have great holiday.


Ben Music


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Item #3
> 
> 
> When the TWC card guy was here the other day, I asked him if he had heard any news about when the Moto to SA cable box switchout was going to start in Lorain Co., and other former Comcast areas. He shocked me when he said that TWC has decided not to use the OLD SA boxes, but replace them with brand new Samsung HDTV/DVR units. Great news if you ask me. Has anyone else heard
> 
> about this? If there is any TWC insiders out there, can you find out when this might start? (My guess July 07) Also, could you find out the Samsung model # so we can start checking out specs, features, hard drive space, etc.



AFAIK S/A is producing a new version of the 8300 which is compliant with the new FCC rule that kicks in on July 1st. My guess is that you'll get whichever box is available at the time.


As for the firmware issue, send me a PM with info. I have some friends in the industry...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Item #1.
> 
> 
> The TWC guy from the Elyria office was here the other day to install cable cards in my Tivo S3. The card in slot 2 seems to work fine, but card in slot 1 doesn't work. I can only get Ch 2 thru 99. When looking at the test and card info screens, I noticed that the 2 (Motorola) cards had different version numbers. The card that doesn't work (slot 1) is version 405. The card that works (slot 2) is version 421. Does any know if both cards need the same version number to be able to work togther in the same box?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and have great holiday.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Cable cards must be the same version or you will have problems. Dumb cable guy! And if he was following insturctions he shouldn't be activating slot 2 until slot 1 becomes active.


You have a nice holiday too Ben.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some Interesting DX on my JVC HD this morning..Using a Philips Amplified MANT510 Indoor antenna. My number of "signals" Usually top out at 25-28 depending on how the antenna is placed. Today I was getting 40-43 consistently..Including
> 
> 
> 4-1 WTAE Pittsburgh ABC
> 
> 4-2 WTAE Weather Channel
> 
> 8-1 WWCP Altoona FOX (Blacked out WJW-TV)
> 
> 8-2 WATM Altoona ABC
> 
> 9-1 WTOV Steubenville NBC
> 
> 9-2 WTOV Weather Plus
> 
> 11-1 WPXI NBC Pittsburgh
> 
> 11-2 WPXI Weather Plus
> 
> 13-1 WQED Pittsburgh PBS
> 
> 13-2 WQED-Digital 2
> 
> 16 WQEX Pittsburgh
> 
> 22 WPMY Analog
> 
> 22-1 WPMY Pittsburgh MyTV
> 
> 22-2 WPMY (duplicate of 22-1)
> 
> 40 WPCB Pittsburgh
> 
> 40-1 WPCB Digital
> 
> 44-2 WOUC-Unlimited-Cambridge, Ohio..(simulcast of WOUB-Athens, Ohio Ohio University)
> 
> 44-3 WOUC-News
> 
> 44-4 WOUC-Makes
> 
> 44-5 WOUC On Stage
> 
> 53 WPGH Fox Pittsburgh
> 
> 
> I'd been waiting for a morning like this. The other night i was getting WHIZ analog 18 Zanesville and a weak picture on WNPB-24 analog Morgantown, WVa.



Tim, those are some nice catches via tropospheric ducting. It looks like there will be some activity in northeast Ohio on Tuesday:

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html


----------



## HD MM

EPG Guide Data is finally active on E* for WBNX 55.1.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> EPG Guide Data is finally active on E* for WBNX 55.1.



And just in time for recording 'Hidden Palms" in HD. Will it be the next OC??


cneubert,

has your 55.1 guide data shown up yet?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> 8-1 WWCP Altoona FOX (Blacked out WJW-TV)



That is highly unusual, seeing how WWCP-DT is on rf 29 and WJW-DT is on rf 31.


Your ASTC tuner probably did not know how to handle two channels with the same "8-1" virtual channel. You probably will want to scan again if you want to see WJW-DT. I bet your receiver will now ignore WJW-DT until you rescan. Can you selectively scan channels (i.e. tell your receiver to try to get a lock on rf ch 31)?


Here in the antenna farm I was able to watch WPXI-DT 11-1 & 11-2 and WQED-DT 13-1 & 13-2. Also the 3 Youngstown stations were in (I do get one 24/7 but the other 2 joined the party). The "opening" started to close in the middle of the 11 PM newscasts (which happens to be the most interesting time to get skip since at other times the distants all carry the same network programs).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And just in time for recording 'Hidden Palms" in HD. Will it be the next OC??
> 
> 
> cneubert,
> 
> has your 55.1 guide data shown up yet?



Is WBNX broadcasting in Dolby 5.1?


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is WBNX broadcasting in Dolby 5.1?



Yes it does.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is highly unusual, seeing how WWCP-DT is on rf 29 and WJW-DT is on rf 31.
> 
> 
> Your ASTC tuner probably did not know how to handle two channels with the same "8-1" virtual channel. You probably will want to scan again if you want to see WJW-DT. I bet your receiver will now ignore WJW-DT until you rescan. Can you selectively scan channels (i.e. tell your receiver to try to get a lock on rf ch 31)?
> 
> 
> Here in the antenna farm I was able to watch WPXI-DT 11-1 & 11-2 and WQED-DT 13-1 & 13-2. Also the 3 Youngstown stations were in (I do get one 24/7 but the other 2 joined the party). The "opening" started to close in the middle of the 11 PM newscasts (which happens to be the most interesting time to get skip since at other times the distants all carry the same network programs).



Michael:

I havent tried to use selective scan as yet..Under normal circumstances, I don't get VHF channels at all (except 8 and 9 occasionally)..So, to get Channel 8 from anywhere, let alone Altoona rather than Cleveland, is actually a bonus.


----------



## hookbill

I went to Rat Shack to go look at an antenna for the S3. Trouble was, Rat Shack was no longer there! So I went to Wal-Mart and armed with the info from antenna.org I looked for the color coding suggested so I can get WBNX. Of course none of them had that.










So I wanted to keep it simple so I bought the absolute cheapest Phillips indoor antenna I can and will point it South. The S3 is doing it's thing so I don't know if it will work or not but hey, it was 10 bucks, worth a try to add another HD station while TW sits on their hands.


I'll follow up later.


----------



## hookbill

Well, that didn't work. I just wanted the one channel but I couldn't get a signal out of anything. It shouldn't surprise me, my VHF and UHF signals have been terrible since I first got here.


I've got too many trees and to the south and east I have a huge hill side and there is a deep ravine between that and my house. Well, at least I finally gave it a shot.


And the wife didn't know a thing.


----------



## spot70

Who can we contact at Woio about there signal? I have a outdoor antenna about 8' long with a rotator. Plus I bought a boost to see if it would help. Today the sky was clear and my signal highest strength in HD was 55%. I live in Lake County by the lake.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Michael:
> 
> I havent tried to use selective scan as yet..Under normal circumstances, I don't get VHF channels at all (except 8 and 9 occasionally)..So, to get Channel 8 from anywhere, let alone Altoona rather than Cleveland, is actually a bonus.



Tim,

When you see "8-1" that is a virtual channel. The actual rf channel for WJW-DT is 31 which is UHF (as is WWCP from Johnstown on rf ch 29). Ch 8 is their analog assigned channel. After the transition (scheduled for February 2009) WJW-DT will move to rf ch 8. As for WOIO-DT their digital signal is ion rf ch 10 which is VHF. They want to stay on ch 10 after the transition which is a big mistake IMHO, but that's another post.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, that didn't work. I just wanted the one channel but I couldn't get a signal out of anything. It shouldn't surprise me, my VHF and UHF signals have been terrible since I first got here.
> 
> 
> I've got too many trees and to the south and east I have a huge hill side and there is a deep ravine between that and my house. Well, at least I finally gave it a shot.
> 
> 
> And the wife didn't know a thing.



What? Hook give up so easily? maybe it's the heat. You wouldn't have to go with a big outdoor job. One of those hi-powered alligator jaw types with a long tongue designed just for UHF would work great I bet - even thru all those trees. They're also small and look hi-tech. Wingard HD9085P & HD9095P or similar.


Wouldn't it be cool to compare the HD network signals for cable vs. ota? You'd also have a backup for(5,8,43 & maybe 19) if cable was out for some reason. But best of all, the S3 would be blessed with 55.1.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope, I gave it one quick shot and that's it. I'll just wait for it to come to TWC. Sorry if I disappointed you.



I don't think Tom in OH was directing that comment to you, since I don't think any part of your nick contains the word "hook."


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spot70* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Who can we contact at Woio about there signal? I have a outdoor antenna about 8' long with a rotator. Plus I bought a boost to see if it would help. Today the sky was clear and my signal highest strength in HD was 55%. I live in Lake County by the lake.



spot70,


Good luck. The OTA signal in Lake County by the lake has been a problem for the 22 years I've lived there. I have always had a large fringe type antenna, amp, and rotor on the roof. I was hoping the move to a digital signal would be the fix but the digital signal is just as bad.


Ray


----------



## hdhdliving




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think Tom in OH was directing that comment to you, since I don't think any part of your nick contains the word "hook."



I deleted my post. I just assumed since I mentioned an indoor antenna he was talking to me.







Sorry about that, I'll be more carefull in the future.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I deleted my post. I just assumed since I mentioned an indoor antenna he was talking to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry about that, I'll be more carefull in the future.



Hey, don't worry about it. I made a mistake once and answered someone else's post too. Things happen.


Basically Tom because the wife is so dead set against antennas I don't want to put anything that looks like an "aligator" on the entertainment center. And also I don't want to stress out over it that much because as it stands right now there are only two possible shows I would watch in HD on WBNX.


As far as comparisons go it's tempting but I know I would drive myself right up a wall doing that. I think I'll just stay happy in my little cable HD world.


----------



## schandorsky

Does anyone in the TimeWarner Elyria/Mentor area get channel 215 WNEO HD?

It is listed in their channel guide.

Also if you do, what channel would that be on QAM tuner?


Thanks


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why would WBNX-DT need to have a SD channel on 55-2 if other channels don't have it? That sounds like an extremely stupid idea in that it would waste valuable space for HD content.
> 
> 
> Whatever they decide to do as far as multicasting, I hope that they put some decent programming on their other channel. Someone had mentioned retro programming, which I would really like, but I don't know how anyone would've gotten this idea or if that speculation has any merit.



From what I could best figure out, retro tv shows would fit since at one time they did air retro programs such as I love lucy, Andy Griffith, and Gomer Pyle USMC. That and the fact that Equity broadcasting is taking its retro television network national in July it would make sense. I mean unless they plan on double running all of the programs they have the rights to or airing the 90 @ 9 club 24/7 what would they air?


They could move 4 kids over to the new channel, maybe do some HS sports, but outside of that classic tv shows are really the only that is left? More and more stations are adding retro channels to their subcarriers so it could be a good possibility that it could work for them. Unless they go out and try to find some cartoons so their kids club can be expanded or give Ronnie Duncan a sports show since he does do the sports work for them, I don't have a clue of what they could air.


I recall on an old airing of their heart to heart program, they brought up digital television and they had on as their guest their atty and they hinted that with multicasting they could air programs that was targeted for a specific portion of the market such as programs for Cleveland on 1 channel and programs for Canton on another at the same time. This was from about three years ago so I don't know if their feeling has changed.


When RTN goes national, from what I understand it will be a barter deal, in which the station airing the programming will get programs for less as long as they air the ad spots when they are told to. This would fit best for WBNX. Considering the tube network is taken, what could they really do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_Television_Network 

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070320/cltu183.html?.v=7


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone in the TimeWarner Elyria/Mentor area get channel 215 WNEO HD?



I'd assume that TWC hasn't put on WNEO HD because, well, it doesn't exist right now.


The 45/49 folks have even posted here that they're still working on getting the HD version of the station on the air again. There are a myriad of financial and technical issues, though I seem to remember it's basically down to getting and installing the equipment at this point. Search earlier in the thread for messages posted by "PBS4549", I believe it is.


In the meantime, the entire PBS HD 24/7 schedule is on many of the TWC systems via WVIZ's HD signal, a puny thing which can be picked up outside Parma only with a large antenna at a cable headend.


I don't know if the former Comcast system has carried WVIZ-HD, though the ex-Adelphia system does.


Right now, WNEO/WEAO's DT-1 subchannel is the PBS-run network "Create" in SD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the meantime, the entire PBS HD 24/7 schedule is on many of the TWC systems via WVIZ's HD signal, a puny thing which can be picked up outside Parma only with a large antenna at a cable headend.
> 
> 
> I don't know if the former Comcast system has carried WVIZ-HD, though the ex-Adelphia system does.



... and Wide Open West *still* doesn't carry WVIZ-HD on their cable system. I assume because thier headend (North Olmsted?) is too far away from WVIZ's wimpy little transmitter to pick up the signal.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... and Wide Open West *still* doesn't carry WVIZ-HD on their cable system. I assume because thier headend (North Olmsted?) is too far away from WVIZ's wimpy little transmitter to pick up the signal.



I dunno. I know that TWC's headend on Lakeside Avenue downtown supposedly picks up the WVIZ-DT signal off air...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone in the TimeWarner Elyria/Mentor area get channel 215 WNEO HD?
> 
> It is listed in their channel guide.
> 
> Also if you do, what channel would that be on QAM tuner?
> 
> 
> Thanks




I'm not in your area but I have the same situation. In my area they have channel 715 assigned to WNEO HD and it's been in the listing for some time. You can see the channel lineup for my area here .


It's quite inaccurate, they still list INHD1 and INHD2 for example. Other channels they have moved around like Ohio News Network arn't updated. When I questioned if we would be receiving WNEOHD soon (in *November*) I got the "we can't comment on that" statement. I asked how come it was on the line up and they said they didn't know.










June is almost here. I wouldn't be surprised to see a major shake up very soon in the line up for us former Comcast/Adelphia people. And that's going to cause the people who own TiVo S3's some major headaches because of the fact that they do not update their guide info on line.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdhdliving* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I deleted my post. I just assumed since I mentioned an indoor antenna he was talking to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry about that, I'll be more carefull in the future.



no harm done, I'm glad to hear someone reads my posts... ^_^ welcome to the forum.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Basically Tom because the wife is so dead set against antennas I don't want to put anything that looks like an "aligator" on the entertainment center. And also I don't want to stress out over it that much because as it stands right now there are only two possible shows I would watch in HD on WBNX.



I figured ykw might nix the project but wanted to give it a shot







... I really meant on the roof anyway, but that probably wouldn't go over any easier... ^_^


----------



## TLaz

Any word/update on the resolution of the legal problems holding up full power HDTV transmission from WVIZ-DT?


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd assume that TWC hasn't put on WNEO HD because, well, it doesn't exist right now.
> 
> 
> The 45/49 folks have even posted here that they're still working on getting the HD version of the station on the air again. There are a myriad of financial and technical issues, though I seem to remember it's basically down to getting and installing the equipment at this point. Search earlier in the thread for messages posted by "PBS4549", I believe it is.



*Yes, there will will be a PBS 45 & 49 HD service*... and it will begin on or before July 1 (we thought it would be a great way to celebrate the Fourth of July, and see some awesome fireworks on the Capital Fourth special, too). We've resolved many of our technical issues and allocated from other areas the financial resources needed to begin the PBS HD feeds. Cable systems throughout Northeast Ohio will be notified next week that our digital broadcast line-up will change by the end of June. Since there is no 'must carry' requirement for digital TV signals, I hope you'll help us convince them to carry our broadcasts on their HD tiers.

When we start the HD broadcast on or before July 1 it will be on 45.1 and 49.1. The SD rebroadcast of our analog main service will continue on 45.2 and 49.2. Our current digital encoder only allows us to broadcast 1 SD channel when we add HD. So Create! and The Ohio Channel will not be broadcast for the next many months. We are scheduled to purchase a new encoder along with new control room equipment and automation software in December. When that happens we will add more SD channels, but just which channels will be added hasn't been decided yet.

This process has taken a very long time. We've heard from you that having the HD service will be useful, and we're very glad to bring it to you. Thanks for your patience. Now, let me know how it looks and sounds once it's on-the-air so we can make whatever improvements our service may need.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

PBS 45 & 49


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Yes, there will will be a PBS 45 & 49 HD service*... and it will begin on or before July 1 (we thought it would be a great way to celebrate the Fourth of July, and see some awesome fireworks on the Capital Fourth special, too). We've resolved many of our technical issues and allocated from other areas the financial resources needed to begin the PBS HD feeds. Cable systems throughout Northeast Ohio will be notified next week that our digital broadcast line-up will change by the end of June. Since there is no 'must carry' requirement for digital TV signals, I hope you'll help us convince them to carry our broadcasts on their HD tiers.
> 
> When we start the HD broadcast on or before July 1 it will be on 45.1 and 49.1. The SD rebroadcast of our analog main service will continue on 45.2 and 49.2. Our current digital encoder only allows us to broadcast 1 SD channel when we add HD. So Create! and The Ohio Channel will not be broadcast for the next many months. We are scheduled to purchase a new encoder along with new control room equipment and automation software in December. When that happens we will add more SD channels, but just which channels will be added hasn't been decided yet.
> 
> This process has taken a very long time. We've heard from you that having the HD service will be useful, and we're very glad to bring it to you. Thanks for your patience. Now, let me know how it looks and sounds once it's on-the-air so we can make whatever improvements our service may need.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> PBS 45 & 49




Nice to get it from the Chief himself. Hope TW starts carrying you soon as well, since they have had you listed for quite some time now.


----------



## JJkizak

That's great news.


JJK


----------



## pbarach

Last week WVIZ broadcast the Michael Tilson-Thomas program "Keeping Score: Copland and Stravinsky." I receive this program via Time Warner Cable. Visually it was great, but there was something horribly wrong with the audio. The volume levels were way lower than any other station. I listen via a 5.1 audio receiver and anything on the center channel (like the announcer or the narrator, Tilson-Thomas) had an echo. The music sounded awful. I know it's not the source material, since I'd seen the program before on WVIZ-HD and the sound was excellent. I hope WVIZ shows it again--or makes sure that they have the audio right on their programs!


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice to get it from the Chief himself. Hope TW starts carrying you soon as well, since they have had you listed for quite some time now.



My guess is that those forum folks that are not members of 45/49 will be sending in their memberships now!


----------



## TimSH

Count me among your new members! I'm in North Olmsted. Unfortunately, 25s signal is extremely poor (over the air) where I'm at. I can receive 49.1, 2 and 3 wonderfully, though. I've very glad to hear that you'll be in HD soon!


----------



## pbarach

a TWC Northern Ohio tech support person told me yesterday that they are "pushing" a firmware upgrade tonight for SA8300HD boxes. He believes that this latest update will resolve the problem which causes the boxes to reset themselves to 480i whenever the user switches their TV display to some other input.


He also said that the ongoing problems with accessing On Demand services are the result of trying to integrate Comcast and Adelphia stuff with TWC's, and that technicians are "working on the master control unit." He acknowledged that this problem is not the result of a defective cable box. A previous tech told me that replacing the cable box would solve the problem. However, because they have a shortage of boxes, she could not guarantee that the tech would arrive for the appointment with a replacement for my allegedly defective SA8300HD.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Yes, there will will be a PBS 45 & 49 HD service*...
> 
> When we start the HD broadcast on or before July 1 it will be on 45.1 and 49.1.
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> PBS 45 & 49



...if possible we Will be watching via ota, thx for the update.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> a TWC Northern Ohio tech support person told me yesterday that they are "pushing" a firmware upgrade tonight for SA8300HD boxes. He believes that this latest update will resolve the problem which causes the boxes to reset themselves to 480i whenever the user switches their TV display to some other input.
> 
> 
> He also said that the ongoing problems with accessing On Demand services are the result of trying to integrate Comcast and Adelphia stuff with TWC's, and that technicians are "working on the master control unit." He acknowledged that this problem is not the result of a defective cable box. A previous tech told me that replacing the cable box would solve the problem. However, because they have a shortage of boxes, she could not guarantee that the tech would arrive for the appointment with a replacement for my allegedly defective SA8300HD.



That's probably the same firmware they have pushed out twice so far and took back. Well, you know what they say. The third time is a charm.


----------



## hookbill

I knew it wouldn't last. I had hopes. I thought maybe now we have a decent cable company.


The fact is they all suck. Each and every one of them. They should all burn in hell.


My wifegave me the bill today to look over. I spotted that they were charging me for two HD receivers. I only have one and my S3. So I called, pushed the billing number and got a very polite woman on the phone who put me on hold several times (I assumed to double check things) and agreed that yes indeed I was overcharged. However, in order to get a refund I would have to talk to Customer Service. Please hold.


I get "all lines are busy. We will call you back in 1 hour." Ordinarily that is fine but I didn't know exactly where I would be in the next hour.


So after picking up the pizza I called back and was told I had to wait only 54 minutes for a call back. I go upstairs to the bedroom and notice they had disconnected my HD STB!










At this point I'm using all kinds of foul language and my wife is looking for a place to hide. Even my birds are looking at me funny and I'm hoping none of them are paying close attention to what I'm saying.


Anyway I get the call and the rep tells me he sees no notes about anything but does see a refund.







I tell him about my box being shut off and he tells me that I don't have an HD STB, I have a regular SD DVR! I read the serial number off the back and he says right, that's a DVR. I read the model number with the HD in it for the SA box. Now he's all confused. Puts me on hold. Anyway after about another half an hour he somehow figures it out and gets my box back on. He says he will inform the wherehouse the correct info but who knows if that is actually followed up on.


Adelphia...TW....Comcast...all of them.....they all suck.


I'm just happy they didn't do the channel switch today as I'm recording all 6 episodes of Star Wars on HBO tonight in HD. Unless they flip the switch at midnight...no...I don't even want to go there.


Oh and I noticed guide infor for Mojo is there now. I don't know if that had anything to do with my box being turned off and on or not.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The fact is they all suck. Each and every one of them. They should all burn in hell.



I don't know about *all* of them. I actually like Wide Open West










And my buddy at work, the twentysomething hardcore gamer, loves Cox internet.


----------



## Inundated

I'm mostly happy with TWC. Very few problems here, though they did once turn off one of my STBs because they confused it with another. Didn't take as long for me to solve as our good friend hookbill had to contend with.










And thanks, Don, for checking back in and answering my question. It'll be nice to have the HD back on 45/49/46/50







And just for that, I'll look into becoming a member of your fine station.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I knew it wouldn't last. I had hopes. I thought maybe now we have a decent cable company.
> 
> 
> The fact is they all suck. Each and every one of them. They should all burn in hell.
> 
> ....



Buzz saw time?

If those trees were history would you prefer E* or D*?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Buzz saw time?
> 
> If those trees were history would you prefer E* or D*?




Well, since my S3 won't work with either of them I have to say no thanks. Also I have a very wonderful wife and even though what I say goes those trees wouldn't. Some kind of veto clause on the marriage license, so she says. She never has let me look at that damn thing.







But let's say I didn't have an S3 and I cut down the trees. When I had D* when I lived in Northern Kentucky I was very happy with them. They never gave me problems. Everything worked great. But I'm not certain I'd be very happy with their current HD DVR however I could deal with it if it has eSATA.


E* just seems to drag their feet on everything. I'm not much interested in them.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But I'm not certain I'd be very happy with their current HD DVR however I could deal with it if it has eSATA.



It does have eSATA. http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=88376


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

Now you know why I use OTA. I also have tons of huge trees and really cannot correlate the signal strength without leaves (SSWL) verses the signal strength with leaves. (SSWL). There are times when the signal strength varies in both situations and it usually corresponds with warm/cold weather fronts moving by. I used to get less signal strength in the summertime but not anymore. Toledo usually comes in (11 & 13) when there is a huge front in place. You will notice the double meaning of SSWL. There are also weather conditons that create a lot of "path intermod" that will unlock the digital signal even when there is adequate signal, at least that is with the monitor circuit in the tv. Maybe a super monitor would show a rapid signal dropout whereas the tv monitor would damp it down a bit. A good thunderstorm doesn't help at all. Digital dropouts are annoying compared to slow analog fades. I don't get any dropouts on the main channels but occasionally PBS, 17, 67. Channels 55 and 61 hang in pretty good.

In regards to cable my uncle used to go round and round with those people. He made out on the latest deal with Time Warner upgrading his system to digital cable and HD $2.00 cheaper than his old analog deal. They probably made a mistake. The HD looks pretty good on his set.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

Hey guys I just thought I'd pass on a little info I picked up watching My Los Angeles Dodgers defeating the Pittsburgh Pirates last night. The announcers were talking about their HD telecast this year and how they were happy to let the viewers know that they would get 36 games in HD. The Pirates are on Fox Sports Pittsburgh.


What a joke, huh? All Tribe home games are in HD and many road games are in HD via WKYC. Sounds like we got it much better over here!


----------



## Andrew K

A while back, I was trying to find a perfect spot for my indoor antenna. Well, I found a very good place that was able to minimize the problems caused by the building materials, which I ended up placing the antenna in a large closet. That was back around March, and I haven't moved the antenna since. I literally live in an area almost completely surrounded by woods. Obviously the leaves have fully grown since then, and I haven't noticed much of a difference in reception. It may be slight, but almost undetectable.


The only major problem I have is when my digital signals fluctuate, and I miss some interesting programs. This is highly annoying compared to an analog signal. But I've noticed that this seems to occur whenever it's windy. I swear that this is definitely the problem. If I see these fluctuations, then I just look out the window and see the large trees gently swaying in the wind, and I know that this is the culprit. Today it's calm, so I don't have ANY problems.


----------



## Brian81

What is the current listing for HD stations available through Time Warner for the Cleveland (Lorain) area? I did a search of TWC's Northeast Ohio website and for the premiums, only HBO and SHOWTIME "HD" stations are listed. Did they get rid of CINEMAX HD and STARZ HD (or others)? I know there is no INHD2 anymore, but what about ESPN2 HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the current listing for HD stations available through Time Warner for the Cleveland (Lorain) area? I did a search of TWC's Northeast Ohio website and for the premiums, only HBO and SHOWTIME "HD" stations are listed. Did they get rid of CINEMAX HD and STARZ HD (or others)? I know there is no INHD2 anymore, but what about ESPN2 HD?



As I stated in a post made a couple of days ago, their information on these websites are totally incorrect. Cinemax and StarzHD are both available as is ESPN2 HD. WVIZ, locals except WBNX, TNT, Universal, and Discovery all availble in HD.


TW responded to me that since the take over with so many differnt channel line ups it is not that easy to make the changes.







The fact is they know they are going to roll the lineups into one so they don't have any desire to make the changes. That is if they can actually pull it off. The last I heard it was suppose to be this month but who knows when it will really happen.


----------



## Smarty-pants

GO CA-AVS... GO CA-AVS... GO CA-AVS...
Rise Up northeast Ohio!!
*!!!CAVS ARE GOIN TO THE BIG SHOW!!!*


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As I stated in a post made a couple of days ago, their information on these websites are totally incorrect.



It's really pathetic that Adelphia and Comcast seem to think this info is top secret. Of course they want you to call a CSR and get talked into some promotional package with a price that will skyrocket in 3 or 6 months. I always thought the Adelphia postcard mailings were bordering on false advertising. You can get cable TV and internet "for as low as" $xx but there was never any mention in the fine print of what you actually got, what the term was, or what the full price was at the end of the term.


My experience with Comcast in Florida was also less than stellar. Their billing is completely screwed. I get my service cut off every 6 months because they can't figure out how to properly bill an out of state customer. Activating internet service was a mini-nightmare riddled with broken websites and outdated software. If you have to talk to their national call center in Louisiana (or is it Georgia) god help you. If you can manage to outsmart the phone tree and get connected to a person in the local office, they are quite helpful.


WOW has always had a very straight up package pricing tool on their website, and I've ordered cable and internet service completely via their website (gasp) without any phone calls. That's the way it should be in 2007, for chrissakes. Especially since all these cable companies tout themselves as technology companies. WOW also keeps their channel lineups up to date with an easily downloadable PDF for each service area.


Oh yeah, and, GO CAVS !


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> GO CA-AVS... GO CA-AVS... GO CA-AVS...
> Rise Up northeast Ohio!!
> *!!!CAVS ARE GOIN TO THE BIG SHOW!!!*




Congrats to the Cavs, they put a whooping on those demons from Detroit. I loved seeing Rasheed Wallace getting the toss in HD. (by adding that comment it justifys it being in the local HD thread).


----------



## Smarty-pants




----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> I also have tons of huge trees and really cannot correlate the signal strength without leaves (SSWL) verses the signal strength with leaves. (SSWL). There are times when the signal strength varies in both situations and it usually corresponds with warm/cold weather fronts moving by.
> 
> JJK



I'm with you on this one. I have a large cluster of tall cherry trees 30ft from and 20ft taller than my antenna and I get about the same, sometimes spotty, reception now (with leaves) than when I put the antenna in last fall (no leaves). I do think its weather related too. I usually get 3.1 in rock solid no matter what (maybe my Sensar III has better VHF?) and trade off days of good reception out of 5.1 and 8.1. 19.1 just hasn't been coming in very well for months. Thinking about upgrading the antenna and adding a rotor. In the mean time I'll have to start tracking the channel reception and weather correlation (keep an eye on the tropospheric ducting forecast too).


----------



## JK77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys I just thought I'd pass on a little info I picked up watching My Los Angeles Dodgers defeating the Pittsburgh Pirates last night. The announcers were talking about their HD telecast this year and how they were happy to let the viewers know that they would get 36 games in HD. The Pirates are on Fox Sports Pittsburgh.
> 
> 
> What a joke, huh? All Tribe home games are in HD and many road games are in HD via WKYC. Sounds like we got it much better over here!



With the way the Pirates play they should be thankful they are on TV at all. We don't need to see them suck in HD







. They already got a stadium they didn't deserve.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JK77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the way the Pirates play they should be thankful they are on TV at all. We don't need to see them suck in HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . They already got a stadium they didn't deserve.



Good point. Here's hoping they suck again tonight too.


----------



## JK77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good point. Here's hoping they suck again tonight too.



I think that is a safe bet.


----------



## Ognir

Sorry as this is off topic


But I know someone will have an answer for my daughter

She has a Sony Bravia and her 2 years daughter threw something at the Unit and it left a mark on or in the screen my question is what cleaning tips any of you might have.


Thanks


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What a joke, huh? All Tribe home games are in HD and many road games are in HD via WKYC. Sounds like we got it much better over here!



From nothing to all home games in one year. The thumbs up, of course, goes to both STO and WKYC - the latter being the technical brains for STO. If the rights were still with FSN Ohio, we'd be hearing about 30 or so games in HD each year.


It was forward thinking for WKYC to build the infrastructure and run the fiber a few blocks from Jacobs Field to their place on Lakeside Avenue. As a result of that, WKYC reaps the benefits year round...using the high-placed HD camera at Jacobs Field 7 days a week as an HD skycam!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry as this is off topic
> 
> 
> But I know someone will have an answer for my daughter
> 
> She has a Sony Bravia and her 2 years daughter threw something at the Unit and it left a mark on or in the screen my question is what cleaning tips any of you might have.
> 
> 
> Thanks




I believe this is an LCD screen. Your question is difficult to answer because if it's just on the screen it would be helpful to know what exactly it is. If it's in the screen then sorry, nothing you can do on an LCD.


For most on screen dirt there is a blue cloth you can purchase from BB, CC etc. You can wet it and take it off (gently). My LCD came with one of these cloths bigger then the screen itself, pehaps she has one already.


Sorry I can't offer any other suggestions.


----------



## JJkizak

Ognir:

The manual has very explicit instructions on how to clean the screen and also warnings of the chemicals that will exit if the pixels are punctured. Not a good read.

JJK


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ognir:
> 
> The manual has very explicit instructions on how to clean the screen and also warnings of the chemicals that will exit if the pixels are punctured. Not a good read.
> 
> JJK




The Sony Manual has only one line about it .


I am now wondering if she doesn't have bad pixals


She said it was not 10inches long !


----------



## Ognir

Since it has color coming through I think it is a LCD's stuck pixels


Any clues how to UN stick them?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since it has color coming through I think it is a LCD's stuck pixels
> 
> 
> Any clues how to UN stick them?



Kids + electronics where they can get to = broken equipment.


I think she needs a new TV and a shelf that the kids can't reach up to.


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kids + electronics where they can get to = broken equipment.
> 
> 
> I think she needs a new TV and a shelf that the kids can't reach up to.



The good news is

the stucked pixels can be free'd up

I seem to have gotten about 70 percent back

but it takes albow grease ! Actually Denatured Alcohol and distilled water


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The good news is
> 
> the stucked pixels can be free'd up
> 
> I seem to have gotten about 70 percent back
> 
> but it takes albow grease ! Actually Denatured Alcohol and distilled water



Ummmm OK. If it's working fine. But in all the years I've been around computers I've never and I mean never heard that it was a good idea to push on an LCD screen (elbow greese).


I truly doubt you'll be able to get the screen back 100% but good luck.


----------



## dak0ta11

Does anybody know what happened to WKYC-HD and their weather channel in the Akron/Canton Time Warner market? I was receiving it on 80.1, then it moved to 101.1, now I don't get it again.


Thanks,

Brian


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dak0ta11* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anybody know what happened to WKYC-HD and their weather channel in the Akron/Canton Time Warner market? I was receiving it on 80.1, then it moved to 101.1, now I don't get it again.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian



I know that WKYC is experiencing technical problems with their local Weather+ equipment; could it be that some PSIPs have changed as a result?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know that WKYC is experiencing technical problems with their local Weather+ equipment; could it be that some PSIPs have changed as a result?



Last time I checked Weather Plus was fine OTA.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Last time I checked Weather Plus was fine OTA.



Were you seeing the local forecast data or the national feed? They were passing the national feed along in lieu of the locally generated content.


***EDIT*** The station's website is reporting that it was fixed today.


----------



## paule123

Are you guys getting about a 10 pixel black bar across the bottom of the screen on WEWS NBA Finals? I'm getting a little white garbage down there every now and then. My plasma is set to 1:1 pixel ratio, no overscan.


The audio just sucks, it's like the Indy 500 audio.


----------



## Inundated

Paul, I've gotten that bar/underscan on any ABC HD programming for the past couple of weeks on WEWS.


It does not appear on WEWS' locally-originated HD programming, including the news and "Jeopardy". Only ABC HD stuff.


Westy 32 inch LCD set here.


----------



## Smarty-pants

So when (on ABC-HD / Time Warner) there are black bars at the top AND bottom of the screen, the bar at the bottom is bigger. Is this what you guys are seeing?!? I was going to call in on my warrantee thinking that something is wrong with my tv. Please confirm.

Thanks


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So when (on ABC-HD / Time Warner) there are black bars at the top AND bottom of the screen, the bar at the bottom is bigger. Is this what you guys are seeing?!? I was going to call in on my warrantee thinking that something is wrong with my tv. Please confirm.
> 
> Thanks



Yes, the bar at the bottom is bigger. Nothing wrong with your TV.


If you flip over to Fox or ESPNHD (also 720p), you'll see that the "extra" black bar goes away.


----------



## Smarty-pants

thanks


----------



## Ward216

Last nights Cav's game on ABC (OTA) looked & sounded pretty bad. I would really expect more from an ESPN joint venture with ABC. Actually I thought I read that ABC had spent quite a bit on new HD cameras for football season...maybe they haven't been integrated yet.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

the sound last night was driving me crazy. i could not believe how many times i had to adjust the volume because every segment they showed was set at a different level.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the sound last night was driving me crazy. i could not believe how many times i had to adjust the volume because every segment they showed was set at a different level.



I only watched a bit of the game on my HDTV where my home theater was set up. It sounded fine to me, however I wouldn't be surprised if there may have been problems like you describe. I noticed in watching episodes of "Lost" that I recorded that the sound sometimes seems like it turns off and on in between dialog. It's just a bit weird but noticeable.


I'm not certain but I wonder if WEWS is still not having some equipment problems with their Dolby 5.1.


----------



## JJkizak

I watched the game (OTA) HD for about 15 minutes and everything seemed fine. Using the TV speakers and not the humongous system however.


JJK


----------



## paule123

The audio and PQ of the Cavs game was widely criticized around the country over on the official NBA Finals on ABC thread .


It would have sounded ok with standard TV stereo speakers, but pump that crap through a surround system and it's awful. The commercials were 5.1, then the graphic segment between commercial and game sounded like a mono AM radio. The game itself was sort of a middling FM radio quality stereo.


From what I gather in the game thread, ESPN provides "fake" 5.1 (aka "Circle Surround") from the source, so it's not likely a local issue with the audio.


----------



## Bismarck440

Where is TWC Lake county hiding the local HD these days, Although I don't have cable myself, I completely give up programming my neighbors set every month.


Found 3 on 83-3 & 5 on 83-5... can't find the others.


----------



## Bismarck440

Are they using True North as a reference point, or Magnetic North (Compass North)?


Thanks.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spot70* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Who can we contact at Woio about there signal? I have a outdoor antenna about 8' long with a rotator. Plus I bought a boost to see if it would help. Today the sky was clear and my signal highest strength in HD was 55%. I live in Lake County by the lake.



Good luck, I'm experiencing the same problems in Mentor with WOIO & with WKYC also.


Frequent dropouts.... 55% seems pretty good, I'm down in the 30's most of the time on those.


Any luck with the Erie Digitals?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is highly unusual, seeing how WWCP-DT is on rf 29 and WJW-DT is on rf 31.
> 
> 
> Your ASTC tuner probably did not know how to handle two channels with the same "8-1" virtual channel. You probably will want to scan again if you want to see WJW-DT. I bet your receiver will now ignore WJW-DT until you rescan. Can you selectively scan channels (i.e. tell your receiver to try to get a lock on rf ch 31)?
> 
> 
> Here in the antenna farm I was able to watch WPXI-DT 11-1 & 11-2 and WQED-DT 13-1 & 13-2. Also the 3 Youngstown stations were in (I do get one 24/7 but the other 2 joined the party). The "opening" started to close in the middle of the 11 PM newscasts (which happens to be the most interesting time to get skip since at other times the distants all carry the same network programs).



I understand the concept of the Virtual channels, but after 2009 are they going to be gone?... I can see the conflict here, now just how would any sets tuner be able to handle this?.... I'm occasionally (usually in June also), able to pull a few stations up from Texas, Oklahoma & Lousiania during band openings. Since the same is happening with digital, I'm wondering if this will be a weak signal, or blocky frozen picture... becoming an annoyance instead of a novelty.


----------



## JJkizak

If anyone goes to watch game 2 of the Cavs game at the Quicken Loans Arena how about a critique on how the High-Def 3D thing looks? This is supposed to be spectacular with a separate 3D closed feed using Pace dual lens cameras with separate HD/SDI feeds being developed by the NBA of all people. (yes, with glasses)


JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are they using True North as a reference point, or Magnetic North (Compass North)?
> 
> 
> Thanks.




When I looked last week it appeared they were giving compass coordinates so I would say magnetic North.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand the concept of the Virtual channels, but after 2009 are they going to be gone?... I can see the conflict here, now just how would any sets tuner be able to handle this?.... I'm occasionally (usually in June also), able to pull a few stations up from Texas, Oklahoma & Lousiania during band openings. Since the same is happening with digital, I'm wondering if this will be a weak signal, or blocky frozen picture... becoming an annoyance instead of a novelty.



After 2009 some stations will be staying on their "digital" assigned channel, others will revert to their original channel (i.e. move the digital to the original analog channel). WJW plans on keeping ch 8 as their digital channel at the end of the transition period. I'm not sure what WWCP has in mind, but the information is available at the FCC site.


It's not clear yet weather the stations who chose a different channel after the transition will still use the "virtual" channel number (i.e. will WOIO still be known as "19" if and when they sign off the analog signal).


Virtual channels are here to stay. One possibility may be that every network affilliate will someday carry the same virtural channel number (NBC on 4 for example). So no matter where you are if you want to watch NBC tune to virtual ch 4 (even though the actual rf channel is probably in the UHF range in every case).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Were you seeing the local forecast data or the national feed? They were passing the national feed along in lieu of the locally generated content.
> 
> 
> ***EDIT*** The station's website is reporting that it was fixed today.



The only abnormality I noticed was that the 5-day forecast was stuck on Detroit for quite awhile. After that I did notice the "national" feed, as I saw 5-day forecasts for cities all over the country, not just this region (unless that was a normal occurrence for the time I tuned in which was Friday morning, a time I rarely watch TV).


----------



## hookbill

Since we are talking a bit about Weather Plus, IMHO and please don't throw any rotten tomatoes at me, WOIO's Weathern Now is better. If I'm getting dressed and I'm trying to decide what to wear and put on Weather Plus it takes forever before they get around to local stuff. WOIO is all local all the time.


Just my opinion. YMMV


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Virtual channels are here to stay....



Yep. I've found that when some sets discover duplicate VCT assignments, they toss all of the duplicate channels into a "Channel 0" zone, where you can wind up seeing several channel zeroes in a row. This is probably better than simply giving up on a channel and refusing to tune it. The ability to handle this depends on the design of the firmware in the set.


----------



## eml626

Has anyone else in Beachwood, Ohio found it nearly impossible to establish new service with Time Warner Cable if you want to get Digital Cable with Premium service but want 2 Cablecards for your new Vista MCE Machine?


I have spent 4 days on the phone trying to get this done at my apartment and have finally called their corporate office in New York and still am not any closer to getting cable or cable with cable cards.


It would seem the only way I can get cable is to take it on their terms and get a package with a DVR and a second box then call back days later to change my plan and then have to return the boxes myself to a local payment office. Then wait 5+ days to get a call from the company who deals with the cablecard on TWC's behalf to schedule an appointment for another install, after they order in cablecards!


Why don't they have this stuff on hand? Why can't ordering cable be simple?


Does this seem insane to anyone else?


If there is someone who can help me out in getting new TWC service established with Digital Cable HDTV Tier, HBO, SHOWTIME, CINEMAX and 2 CableCards, it would be greatly appreciated.


You would think TWC would want my business, but I guess not and I don't have it in me to talk to the supposed "Customer Service Reps" on the phone anymore.


Thank You!


P.S.


AT&T U-verse is now welcome in my neighborhood! I will take it even with the refrigerator size street boxes because TWC is awful.


Monopoly of the cable co is the reason these issues exist, no competition = crap service on all levels!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else in Beachwood, Ohio found it nearly impossible to establish new service with Time Warner Cable if you want to get Digital Cable with Premium service but want 2 Cablecards for your new Vista MCE Machine?




I'm not in your are, but when I first got my S3 back in September I had a bit of a problem with the two cable card thing. So I lied and said it was for two HD TV's. They gave me an install date.


However as a result of their customer service not knowing **** from shinola I sent off an email sounding them about their lack of knowledge of new technology.


The day of my install I got a call from a supervisor. He advised me that he and two lead techs would be out to install my cards for my S3. I said great, but how did he know it was for the S3? He said my email got forwarded to his boss and then sent to him.


Now with the Vista thing and cable cards this will be interesting indeed. Oh and if you do sign with AT&T that doesn't mean they will put the box in front of your house. Just somewhere on the street.


Let us know how it goes.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Virtual channels are here to stay. One possibility may be that every network affilliate will someday carry the same virtural channel number (NBC on 4 for example). So no matter where you are if you want to watch NBC tune to virtual ch 4 (even though the actual rf channel is probably in the UHF range in every case).



I think this would be an absolute nightmare. After the transition in 2009, I'll be able to receive four NBC stations (WFMJ-DT, Youngstown; WTOV-DT, Steubenville; WKYC-DT, Cleveland and WPXI-DT, Pittsburgh). Which one would my TV tune to? Will it be user selectable? If my assigned NBC station is having a technical problem, will I be able to tune to an alternate NBC affiliate?


----------



## JK77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After 2009 some stations will be staying on their "digital" assigned channel, others will revert to their original channel (i.e. move the digital to the original analog channel). WJW plans on keeping ch 8 as their digital channel at the end of the transition period. I'm not sure what WWCP has in mind, but the information is available at the FCC site.



They plan on going back to 8. I think I've been getting a little interference from WJW since that front pushed through.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not clear yet weather the stations who chose a different channel after the transition will still use the "virtual" channel number (i.e. will WOIO still be known as "19" if and when they sign off the analog signal).



The reason for PSIP is so stations can continue to be known by their channel position if it really isn't the frequency on which they are broadcasting. At least this will be one less headache for those, such as senior citizens, who rely primarily on OTA for television and would have to learn their favorite shows that were on channel 7 will be on channel 33.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Virtual channels are here to stay. One possibility may be that every network affilliate will someday carry the same virtural channel number (NBC on 4 for example). So no matter where you are if you want to watch NBC tune to virtual ch 4 (even though the actual rf channel is probably in the UHF range in every case).



It's not going to be like XM or Sirius where you know CNN is on channel ### in Montana, or Texas, or etc. Each station wants to keep their channel branding, and since most people use cable or satellite, it doesn't much matter since the providers select where stations are placed in their tiers.


----------



## JK77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think this would be an absolute nightmare. After the transition in 2009, I'll be able to receive four NBC stations (WFMJ-DT, Youngstown; WTOV-DT, Steubenville; WKYC-DT, Cleveland and WPXI-DT, Pittsburgh). Which one would my TV tune to? Will it be user selectable? If my assigned NBC station is having a technical problem, will I be able to tune to an alternate NBC affiliate?



It won't be any different that it is now. The post-transition channels will be WFMJ-20, WTOV-9, WKYC-17, and WPXI-48, so your TV won't have a problem locking in each just as currently it would pick them up on 21, 9, 3, and 11 respectively. If the NBC affiliate in your market is having technically difficulties, and you can get one, two, three, etc. other NBC stations, you'll be free to turn the channel as you are now.


----------



## SuperAmmo

Indians baseball looks great on channel 3.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If anyone goes to watch game 2 of the Cavs game at the Quicken Loans Arena how about a critique on how the High-Def 3D thing looks? This is supposed to be spectacular with a separate 3D closed feed using Pace dual lens cameras with separate HD/SDI feeds being developed by the NBA of all people. (yes, with glasses)
> 
> 
> JJK



I was there today while they were tweaking it. They're using polarized passive glasses, so the 3D is in normal color. The effect is quite strong on close shots, less dramatic on wide shots. Overall it looks good and anyone who goes there will enjoy it.










BTW they were tweaking the intraocular distance on one of the dual camera's two lenses while I was watching. Think about seeing the effect of crossing your eyes without actually crossing them! Yikes.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone else in Beachwood, Ohio found it nearly impossible to establish new service with Time Warner Cable if you want to get Digital Cable with Premium service but want 2 Cablecards for your new Vista MCE Machine?
> 
> 
> I have spent 4 days on the phone trying to get this done at my apartment and have finally called their corporate office in New York and still am not any closer to getting cable or cable with cable cards.
> 
> 
> It would seem the only way I can get cable is to take it on their terms and get a package with a DVR and a second box then call back days later to change my plan and then have to return the boxes myself to a local payment office. Then wait 5+ days to get a call from the company who deals with the cablecard on TWC's behalf to schedule an appointment for another install, after they order in cablecards!
> 
> 
> Why don't they have this stuff on hand? Why can't ordering cable be simple?
> 
> 
> Does this seem insane to anyone else?
> 
> 
> If there is someone who can help me out in getting new TWC service established with Digital Cable HDTV Tier, HBO, SHOWTIME, CINEMAX and 2 CableCards, it would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> You would think TWC would want my business, but I guess not and I don't have it in me to talk to the supposed "Customer Service Reps" on the phone anymore.
> 
> 
> Thank You!
> 
> 
> P.S.
> 
> 
> AT&T U-verse is now welcome in my neighborhood! I will take it even with the refrigerator size street boxes because TWC is awful.
> 
> 
> Monopoly of the cable co is the reason these issues exist, no competition = crap service on all levels!



You are certainly on the bleeding edge. I read a PC Magazine columnist talking about trying to get the new MCE PC's with CableCard up and running in NYC, and he basically said forget it, not ready for primetime. Too many issues between the software and the cableco.


UVerse should be here on June 18. Only problem is cablecard won't do you any good, ATT's is an all IPTV system...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was there today while they were tweaking it. They're using polarized passive glasses, so the 3D is in normal color. The effect is quite strong on close shots, less dramatic on wide shots. Overall it looks good and anyone who goes there will enjoy it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW they were tweaking the intraocular distance on one of the dual camera's two lenses while I was watching. Think about seeing the effect of crossing your eyes without actually crossing them! Yikes.



What does the screen look like without the glasses? Is it that weird unwatchable blue/red shift?


Too bad we can't watch this feed instead of the crappy 720p ABC feed...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Indians baseball looks great on channel 3.



Yep, looks fantastic. I love HD games on STO and WKYC. Blows the doors off ESPN/ABC/Fox. Makes me glad I bought this 1080p plasma.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What does the screen look like without the glasses? Is it that weird unwatchable blue/red shift?



They're not using the blue/red anaglyph system at all, so there's no weird color fringing. The picture looked slightly blurred without glasses, but then they were still playing with the optics on the cameras, the frame synchronization and miscellaneous other alignments at the time so I didn't see the final, fully calibrated results. The final results should look quite good.


Oh, and they also had a really cool animated 3-D test pattern for alignment.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, looks fantastic. I love HD games on STO and WKYC. Blows the doors off ESPN/ABC/Fox. Makes me glad I bought this 1080p plasma.



Personally I think baseball looks great on FOX. I give STO points for improving their sound to the rear speakers this year, but I still wonder how come it reads "Dolby 3/2"? on my amp. Where is the "1"?


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JK77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It won't be any different that it is now. The post-transition channels will be WFMJ-20, WTOV-9, WKYC-17, and WPXI-48, so your TV won't have a problem locking in each just as currently it would pick them up on 21, 9, 3, and 11 respectively. If the NBC affiliate in your market is having technically difficulties, and you can get one, two, three, etc. other NBC stations, you'll be free to turn the channel as you are now.



Yes, I know. What Michael is saying is that, hypothetically, *ALL* NBC stations would be assigned to *THE SAME* virtual channel. Let's assume that NBC is assigned virtual channel 4 nationwide. In that event, how am I going to be able to receive all four NBC stations that I can receive if they're all assigned to virtual channel 4? Isn't my receiver going to be confused?


----------



## hookbill

I like the idea of a virtual channel, although I don't know if it affects me since I have cable. But this is what I like about it. CBS CHANNEL 2, NBC, CHANNEL 4, ABC CHANNEL 7 AND FOX ? (It's 5 in NY and 11 in LA).


So the wife flies to some other part of the country and ask me what's on tv tonight? I tell her "Survivor". She says "What channel?" I say channel 2. Nice and easy wherever she is. She doesn't understand network talk, just channels.


----------



## hookbill

One other thing. If virtual channels exist wouldn't by law the real channel and call letters have to be shown for station identification at the top of the hour, if just briefly?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. What Michael is saying is that, hypothetically, *ALL* NBC stations would be assigned to *THE SAME* virtual channel. Let's assume that NBC is assigned virtual channel 4 nationwide. In that event, how am I going to be able to receive all four NBC stations that I can receive if they're all assigned to virtual channel 4? Isn't my receiver going to be confused?



I don't think that the broadcasters will jump off that cliff. Local market branding is still worth a great deal to the stations. They need to hang on to their identity to differentiate themselves from the network affiliates in other cities.


----------



## JK77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I know. What Michael is saying is that, hypothetically, *ALL* NBC stations would be assigned to *THE SAME* virtual channel. Let's assume that NBC is assigned virtual channel 4 nationwide. In that event, how am I going to be able to receive all four NBC stations that I can receive if they're all assigned to virtual channel 4? Isn't my receiver going to be confused?



In that case there might be some confusion, but I can't say for sure since I don't know how a receiver would react to finding multiple channel 4-1s.


As I mentioned in my reply to him, the reason PSIP (virtual channels) was created was so stations could keep their current channel branding past February 2009 no matter on what channel they are actually broadcasting. I doubt many NBC affiliates on channels other than 4 would want to jump on board to this "same network/same channel" system and lose their localized brand they've worked for 50 some years to achieve.


----------



## hookbill

Is anybody else hearing an information commercial bleeding through on STO right now? I'm getting it on both channel 179 and 17 via TW cable.


The game is getting ready to start soon. Whom do we contact? Or is this a TW thing?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like the idea of a virtual channel, although I don't know if it affects me since I have cable. But this is what I like about it. CBS CHANNEL 2, NBC, CHANNEL 4, ABC CHANNEL 7 AND FOX ? (It's 5 in NY and 11 in LA).



I had an old Magnavox Touch Tune back in the late 70's, & in the set up you could do just what you are talking about ... I could set my NBC to 4 ABC to 7 etc.


Again though not no more when I lived further South, I still picked up 23 ABC out of Akron, along with 5, ... (hmmm 7-1, & 7-2) & I believe my location in Utah near SLC warranted me 2 PBS affiliates.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think that the broadcasters will jump off that cliff. Local market branding is still worth a great deal to the stations. They need to hang on to their identity to differentiate themselves from the network affiliates in other cities.



My prefrence would be after 2009 to do away with the VC, & go back to whatever allocation they are using... ie: WKYC 17, WEWS 15. Didn't see why all the channels couldn't return to their original slots, but again I may be missing the big picture.... Idealy assinging the cities in blocks with a 1 channel spacing in between might be the way to go... 15, 17, 19, ...ect


This just gets as confusing (but not as much) as what NANPA is doing with the area codes, I don't believe in overlays, however the phone companies are all for these, as it will drive up many bills not knowing exactly where you are calling. The industries basic plot is to get me to get a cell phone or buy a long distance plan... (If you are familiar with the calling area of Mentor I only have a 8 mile calling radius, a very restrictive area imposed on us by Ohio Bell decades ago, & were never changed).. OK, off topic there but you get the idea!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This just gets as confusing (but not as much) as what NANPA is doing with the area codes, I don't believe in overlays, however the phone companies are all for these, as it will drive up many bills not knowing exactly where you are calling. The industries basic plot is to get me to get a cell phone or buy a long distance plan... (If you are familiar with the calling area of Mentor I only have a 8 mile calling radius, a very restrictive area imposed on us by Ohio Bell decades ago, & were never changed).. OK, off topic there but you get the idea!




One word, also off topic: VONAGE


----------



## JJkizak

Paper this morning said the HD-3D thing at the Quicken Arena was wonderfull. Although the Spurs made the Cavs look like a high-school team. (IMHO).


JJK


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Personally I think baseball looks great on FOX. I give STO points for improving their sound to the rear speakers this year, but I still wonder how come it reads "Dolby 3/2"? on my amp. Where is the "1"?



I love 5.1 audio done this way. I can turn off all the jabbering by turning off the center channel and just hear ambient sound...sprinkle a little imagination and you are there at the game.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Paper this morning said the HD-3D thing at the Quicken Arena was wonderfull. Although the Spurs made the Cavs look like a high-school team. (IMHO).
> 
> 
> JJK



a friend of mine who went said it was terrible and left at half time. poor picture quality, poor views of the court, people getting in the way of the picture, etc.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Personally I think baseball looks great on FOX. I give STO points for improving their sound to the rear speakers this year, but I still wonder how come it reads "Dolby 3/2"? on my amp. Where is the "1"?



There is no "1" because STO is not sending a signal for a subwoofer.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JK77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I doubt many NBC affiliates on channels other than 4 would want to jump on board to this "same network/same channel" system and lose their localized brand they've worked for 50 some years to achieve.



I agree with you. I sincerely doubt that the scenario Michael referred to will take place because of all of the problems it would engender.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is no "1" because STO is not sending a signal for a subwoofer.



But I hear the subwolfer booming. Or am I just hearing things?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But I hear the sub woofer booming. Or am I just hearing things?



Since DD5.1 includes 5 channels of 20Hz to 20,000Hz and one channel of 20Hz to 120Hz for LFE, you can have low frequencies coming out of any speaker in the system. To prevent damage to smaller speakers most receivers have the option to direct the lower frequencies to the subwoofer if present.


So, if you have configured your receiver to note you have "small" speakers in your system, it will direct some of the low frequencies to your sub woofer.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anybody else hearing an information commercial bleeding through on STO right now? I'm getting it on both channel 179 and 17 via TW cable.
> 
> 
> The game is getting ready to start soon. Whom do we contact? Or is this a TW thing?



I noticed that too when I tuned in with the game in progress. I turned off the TV sound and went with audio from WTAM-1100. I never went back to see if/when the infomercial audio went away.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed that too when I tuned in with the game in progress. I turned off the TV sound and went with audio from WTAM-1100. I never went back to see if/when the infomercial audio went away.




Thanks for your reply. A bit late now but I began to wonder what the heck was going on.


I just went to another baseball game and checked back around the 6th inning. I think they had it straightened out by then but man, what an engineering screw up!


----------



## hookbill

Regarding that infomercial I I heard on Sunday I while trying to watch the Tribes game got a message back from STO.

*Dear Time Warner Cable Subscribers,




Thanks for taking the time to email SportsTime Ohio.




We were unaware of the audio problem on Time Warner Cable during our telecast on Sunday June 10th. Unfortunately, the problem did not originate from STO. If it did, our master control operators would have corrected the problem immediately. I contacted the chief engineer at TWC, and here is his response:




The headend in Cleveland reported the problem, caused by a cross talk issue with the main video routing switcher. It would have affected customers in the Macedonia and Bainbridge areas of Cleveland only. According to our log, the problem was resolved during the third inning of the game. Sorry for the issue.




Please feel free to contact me in the future if you encounter any problems with STO.




Ed Niemi


Vice President,


Affiliate Relations & Distribution


SportsTime Ohio


25 Prospect, Suite 1700 Republic


Cleveland, OH 44115


216-736-4451 direct


216-736-4414 fax

[email protected] 

www.sportstimeohio.com *


----------



## hookbill

It appears soon Cleveland will have no O&O network stations. WJW is being put up for sale. Read about it here and let's all pray that Raycom doesn't buy it.


----------



## breeze45




> Quote:
> It appears soon Cleveland will have no O&O network stations. WJW is being put up for sale. Read about it here and let's all pray that Raycom doesn't buy it.



O&O ??


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *breeze45*  /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> O&O ??



Owned and Operated by the network(in the case of WJW that would be Fox). I think the implication is that O&O's may have somewhat more liberal budgets when it comes to buying new equipment and keeping up with the latest technology. As Hookbill has often remarked, Raycom owned affiliates are often reputed to be at the opposite end of that spectrum.


----------



## eml626

Please visit hxxp:// www.timewarnercablesucks.info and PM me if you have any interest in getting involved!


Nothing will ever get solved unless we organize under a united front!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Please visit hxxp:// www.timewarnercablesucks.info and PM me if you have any interest in getting involved!
> 
> 
> Nothing will ever get solved unless we organize under a united front!



roflol....wtf is this, some kind of spam? And even then this guy, after editing didn't get the website right.


Well, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. It looks like a brand new message board for people who want to b**ch about TWC. It's got like 3 post total on it. Don't waste your time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As Hookbill has often remarked, Raycom owned affiliates are often reputed to be at the opposite end of that spectrum.



My good friend Inundated also points this out frequently.







Other speculations are Sinclair may want to get into the market. But could you imagine 3 Cleveland stations with "Action News". Horrifying.


----------



## JJkizak

Fox OTA 8.1 HD for some reason on the live news the background behind the news anchors has a lot noise the last few weeks. It is only on the news anchors desk set and nowhere else. Signal strength is 98 and the signal to noise is 32 db.

JJK


----------



## eml626

Yes it is a new forum, it is not spam. If enough people get together to complain about Time Warner Cable perhaps our state and local representatives will be able to help us.


If we all just sit complacent and do nothing then Time Warner wins and we, the consumers have to just take it.


The site is new, and was just registered the other day by a friend of mine who just wasted 2 weeks of his life dealing with TWC in north east ohio.


AVS is great, the local forums have been helpful but this topic is pretty all over the place.


I applaud the effort to get people together on a unified front to fight a monopoly.


Give it a chance a forum needs to start somewhere!

www.timewarnercablesucks.info 


Not trying to steal users or thunder from AVS just trying to expose TWC for what it really is.


Thank You!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The site is new, and was just registered the other day by a friend of mine who just wasted 2 weeks of his life dealing with TWC in north east ohio.



By a friend of yours, eh? Burning bridges is not a good way to get ahead in life.


Have you ever heard the phrase "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?"


----------



## eml626




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By a friend of yours, eh? Burning bridges is not a good way to get ahead in life.
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the phrase "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?"



I agree in most cases you get more done by being nice and friendly, but in this case dealing with TWC at least here in NE Ohio is virtually impossible.


You had PM'd me about getting me help to get service and CableCards for a machine I was ordering through VelocityMicro after my friend ordered his.


After his debockle I experienced nearly the same thing. Your contact at TWC that you said you communicated with never contacted me and after a while I gave up on getting new technology.


If you have had a good TWC experience we would love to hear it too. Maybe it will help those of us who have not gotten the same quality service you have to get better results.


I value your opinion and those of everyone on AVS, this site has been very valuable to me.


Thank You For Your Input.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree in most cases you get more done by being nice and friendly, but in this case dealing with TWC at least here in NE Ohio is virtually impossible.
> 
> 
> You had PM'd me about getting me help to get service and CableCards for a machine I was ordering through VelocityMicro after my friend ordered his.
> 
> 
> After his debockle I experienced nearly the same thing. Your contact at TWC that you said you communicated with never contacted me and after a while I gave up on getting new technology.
> 
> 
> If you have had a good TWC experience we would love to hear it too. Maybe it will help those of us who have not gotten the same quality service you have to get better results.
> 
> 
> I value your opinion and those of everyone on AVS, this site has been very valuable to me.
> 
> 
> Thank You For Your Input.



TWC is still, for all intesive purposes Adelphia at heart. It's pretty much the same people, except for customer service which now for some reason in my area comes out of North Canton. These reps seem more knowledgeable then the old ones, a little better trained but still not perfect.


TWC is no better or worst then most of the other cable companies I have experienced. I don't really see how having a site that has a name of "timewarnercable sucks" is going to do much to change anything. Even if you are offering people to share good experiences, which I have had a few, it's own name is going to draw mostly people complaining. And how this is going to "change" things I simply don't understand. It's just another message board where people can complain. TW will never look at it and I doubt anyone else of any prominence will either.


Still as a sign of good faith to another member of this Forum I will be happy to post a comment over there. Good luck.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By a friend of yours, eh? Burning bridges is not a good way to get ahead in life.
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard the phrase "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?"



Really. What was that, the ultimate TWC horror story? Intentional give the CSR wrong information then cry about it when it backfires on you.


----------



## eml626

he gave them the real story and no one wanted to support the device, and he did tell the vp at twc corporate as well and it still was not resolved.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eml626* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree in most cases you get more done by being nice and friendly, but in this case dealing with TWC at least here in NE Ohio is virtually impossible.



Although I agree that dealing with TWC here in NE Ohio is often impossible, there is no benefit to be gained by losing your temper, since being angry at someone does not cause them to become more competent than they were when you were being friendly.


IMO it's a waste of your energy to yell at people who would solve your problem if they knew how, but don't know how. I've never actually talked to _anyone_ at TWC (or at Adelphia) who was purposely being difficult. If something wasn't getting solved, either they didn't understand my problem or they didn't know how to fix it and tried their best. Yelling at them might let _you_ blow off steam, but it doesn't usually result in a solution to the problem.



The current batch of technical reps is variable in quality. I have had a couple of knowledgeable people and a couple of others who were not. In the latter class were two people who said that they could fix my problems with getting On Demand services by sending someone out to replace my SA8300HD cable box. When I asked them if they could guarantee that the tech would have a replacement for this scarce (to them!) item on the truck, they said that they could not guarantee it. The source of the problem was actually in their system, the **next** tech representative told me when I called back. He told me they were working on it, and in fact the problem was fixed several days later.


----------



## eml626

I do suppose the name was created out of over all anger and rage and perhaps you are right it should be changed.


It only cost my friend $0.99 cents to register.


I will discuss getting the name changed if it would help our cause in gathering valuable consumer information regarding Time Warner cable


----------



## eml626

In an attempt to be more "political" we have just registered www.timewarnercableinfo.com 


The site will be geared toward all information that may help TWC customers.


----------



## eml626




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although I agree that dealing with TWC here in NE Ohio is often impossible, there is no benefit to be gained by losing your temper, since being angry at someone does not cause them to become more competent than they were when you were being friendly.
> 
> 
> IMO it's a waste of your energy to yell at people who would solve your problem if they knew how, but don't know how. I've never actually talked to _anyone_ at TWC (or at Adelphia) who was purposely being difficult. If something wasn't getting solved, either they didn't understand my problem or they didn't know how to fix it and tried their best. Yelling at them might let _you_ blow off steam, but it doesn't usually result in a solution to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> The current batch of technical reps is variable in quality. I have had a couple of knowledgeable people and a couple of others who were not. In the latter class were two people who said that they could fix my problems with getting On Demand services by sending someone out to replace my SA8300HD cable box. When I asked them if they could guarantee that the tech would have a replacement for this scarce (to them!) item on the truck, they said that they could not guarantee it. The source of the problem was actually in their system, the **next** tech representative told me when I called back. He told me they were working on it, and in fact the problem was fixed several days later.



The main issues seem to stem from lack of training from the top of the company down.

I agree that it is usually not the CSRs fault per say. If there was better training then yes I would agree most issues would be eliminated.


However there does not seem to be much in the way of training, or even a standardized support script they should be following to attempt to help you.


They also seem very disorganized with regards to having equipment, sending that equipment out with truck rolls and general internal communication between departments.


All of these things lead to a less than desirable outcome for most customers/potential customers.


In all my dealing with TWC I have never yelled at anyone, I am from the school of "kill them with kindness" but if the person on the phone has no idea what you are talking about, or has not been trained in any way, beaming sunshine and rainbows at them on the phone is still not going to help.


The concept of our new site www.timewarnercableinfo.com (to be more political and unbiased) is aimed at gathering as much information as possible on TWC to help other customers or potential customers make informed purchasing decisions.


We also hope to gather enough information to present a case against TWC to the PUCO, BBB and our state and local representatives for help in getting something done to better the overall situation.


I welcome all of your comments but I do not think this is the proper venue. If you have comments on TWC, your positive or negative experience please post them on www.timewarnercableinfo.com 


I do not wish to take up any more of this threads time.


Thank You All


----------



## hookbill

It seems to me that FOX has completely backed down on it's promise to bring "most" games in HD. It looks like they choose one feed out of the three each week now. I noticed the only game in HD this week is Los Angeles vs Anaheim.


I'm kind of surprised nobody has talked about it on this board. Tribe game is in upgraded 480i, which is OK but not HD. Anyone else aware of this?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems to me that FOX has completely backed down on it's promise to bring "most" games in HD. It looks like they choose one feed out of the three each week now. I noticed the only game in HD this week is Los Angeles vs Anaheim.
> 
> 
> I'm kind of surprised nobody has talked about it on this board. Tribe game is in upgraded 480i, which is OK but not HD. Anyone else aware of this?



I don't think we talk about it here in the Cleveland thread because Fox prefers to put anything Yankees/Red Sox in HD, and screw everything else.


It has however been discussed over in the HDTV Programming thread. Fox has only had one game a week in HD so far this year. At least they have improved the quality of the 480 widescreen over previous years. One excuse I heard was Fox isn't done with their main HD ready network center in Houston(?) so they don't have the capacity to do more than 1 game. Seems like baloney considering they do 6 NFL games in HD every Sunday...


----------



## drlava

I have a samsung sir-t151, and fox 8 seems to be glitching, dropping sound for a quarter second every 20-30 seconds. Is anyone else with this receiver having this problem? I'm trying to narrow it down between the receiver firmware and my reception.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think we talk about it here in the Cleveland thread because Fox prefers to put anything Yankees/Red Sox in HD, and screw everything else.
> 
> 
> It has however been discussed over in the HDTV Programming thread. Fox has only had one game a week in HD so far this year. At least they have improved the quality of the 480 widescreen over previous years. One excuse I heard was Fox isn't done with their main HD ready network center in Houston(?) so they don't have the capacity to do more than 1 game. Seems like baloney considering they do 6 NFL games in HD every Sunday...



Of course it's baloney. And they did say they would televise "most" games in HD. How in the heck is one out of 3 "most".


I do agree however, their 480 widescreen quality is much better. Still, not HD.


Apparently they don't want to upset the huge Southern California audience as that game is in HD today.


----------



## Inundated

If you're on TWC-ex-Adelphia and had Adelphia's higher-speed Internet service, listen up.


Check your bill and see if TWC is billing you for Road Runner Premium ($17/mo. extra).


I am usually the type to pay the bill and not look at the details, if it's not exceedingly high. Noticing that my last bill was higher than I expected, I looked, and saw this item.


After going through two CSRs - including one who told me "oh, I have to transfer you to Customer Service to fix that" (umm, who are YOU?) - they finally figured out that there was a billing coding error in the transition.


Road Runner Turbo is, at least in the Cleveland ex-Adelphia market, $9.95 a month on top of the standard service. If you go to twcneo.com and find the former Adelphia/Comcast channel lineups, all of them have the current pricing, and that's there in the Cleveland-area lineups.


(The second rep tried to tell me that Turbo is indeed "priced differently in your area" [??], which I disproved by leading her to the company's own Cleveland lineup card.)


Anyway, there's a chance you could be affected by this, and I have no idea if they've fixed the problem for everyone who might be affected.


(This isn't HDTV related, of course, but I know we have a lot of TWC/ex-Adelphia customers here.)


----------



## Smarty-pants

Since when the heck does RR only cost $10 a month?!? I thought is was like $30?


----------



## Inundated

Read this again in my message:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Road Runner Turbo is, at least in the Cleveland ex-Adelphia market, $9.95 a month *on top of the standard service*.



The standard RR is something around $45. "Turbo" is $9.95 extra.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're on TWC-ex-Adelphia and had Adelphia's higher-speed Internet service, listen up.
> 
> 
> Check your bill and see if TWC is billing you for Road Runner Premium ($17/mo. extra).
> 
> 
> I am usually the type to pay the bill and not look at the details, if it's not exceedingly high. Noticing that my last bill was higher than I expected, I looked, and saw this item.
> 
> 
> After going through two CSRs - including one who told me "oh, I have to transfer you to Customer Service to fix that" (umm, who are YOU?) - they finally figured out that there was a billing coding error in the transition.
> 
> 
> Road Runner Turbo is, at least in the Cleveland ex-Adelphia market, $9.95 a month on top of the standard service. If you go to twcneo.com and find the former Adelphia/Comcast channel lineups, all of them have the current pricing, and that's there in the Cleveland-area lineups.
> 
> 
> (The second rep tried to tell me that Turbo is indeed "priced differently in your area" [??], which I disproved by leading her to the company's own Cleveland lineup card.)
> 
> 
> Anyway, there's a chance you could be affected by this, and I have no idea if they've fixed the problem for everyone who might be affected.
> 
> 
> (This isn't HDTV related, of course, but I know we have a lot of TWC/ex-Adelphia customers here.)



Yeah, the theiving crooks got me too.







I got it taken care of.


Just a hint for anyone else who calls. If you have a billing problem DO NOT press the billing key. Press repair instead so you don't get to explain your problem to one person and get "transfered" to customer service. I had that happen to me a couple of weeks ago so now I just press "repair" and they can take care of everything.


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It appears soon Cleveland will have no O&O network stations. WJW is being put up for sale. Read about it here and let's all pray that Raycom doesn't buy it.



Depends on how you look at the term O&O. If you define the 6 major networks then yes Cleveland will be with out an O&O, but if you count Spanish, Christian, and other networks, then no Cleveland will still have an O&O.


WQHS-61 = Univision owner Univision communications

WDLI-17 = TBN owner Trinity Broadcasting

WVPX-23 = ION owner ION media


If you read the comments section of the entry, everything has been placed out there from investment bankers, to equity firms, to raycheap (raycom), to sincrap (sinclair), to CBS, to tribune, to somehow Gannet who owns ch 3 getting involved and even a suggestion that somehow Fox is going to sell ch 8 and buy ch 19 and 43 so they can have a duopoly. So I quess until the sale closes eveything is on the table at this point.


If you go over to Frank Macek from ch 3's blog, in his entry concerning the sale of ch 8 he brings up the idea of Gannet getting involved and how in Cleveland, Denver, St. Louis & Greensboro, both Fox and Gannet have stations. There is no way where Gannet can own both ch 3 and 8 since they are both considered 2 of the top four stations in town and a VHF duopoly is not allowed in a market of Cleveland's size, but what would his suggestion be?

http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...ld-by-fox.html 

http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/ 


I still think there indeed is an angle to this story that when it comes out, Cleveland will have one of the 6 major networks (ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX,CW,MY TV) owning a station in the market. Granted the market is slipping in population and market size but it is still a top 20 market so I don't see Cleveland not having on of the major players owning a station here.


----------



## paule123

I sure hope it's not Sinclair. I've read nothing but really really bad things about them here on AVS.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I sure hope it's not Sinclair. I've read nothing but really really bad things about them here on AVS.



Well deserved, too. Just ask the folks down in Columbus, who have to deal with them owning the ABC and FOX affiliates (WSYX/6 and WTTE/28, respectively).


Last I'd heard, they were in a dispute with TWC about carriage.


ETA: Apparently, that was solved earlier this year:

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...&post9547251 


Now, it's not that TWC doesn't have other carriage issues, but it's a hallmark of Sinclair - they want to squeeze every penny out of the thing that they can, and they're a leader in the "get cable to pay us cash money" sweepstakes.


Their news operations are usually the third-rated in any market they're in. Their Sacramento CBS affiliate was the joke of the market for years, until they sold it to CBS.


If Sinclair bids for WJW/8, and is successful...ouch.


----------



## SuperAmmo

Anyone know the status of CW HD on TWC? I'm stuck with a QAM tuner for now so I'll take all the local HD I can get.


And when ABC's gonna fix that sound/video problem.


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperAmmo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know the status of CW HD on TWC? I'm stuck with a QAM tuner for now so I'll take all the local HD I can get.
> 
> 
> And when ABC's gonna fix that sound/video problem.



Or on WOW?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drlava* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a samsung sir-t151, and fox 8 seems to be glitching, dropping sound for a quarter second every 20-30 seconds. Is anyone else with this receiver having this problem? I'm trying to narrow it down between the receiver firmware and my reception.



Due to repeats I can't confirm your exact timings, but I had a similar problem with fox 8 last week for the few minutes I was watching. This was OTA through my TV.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It appears soon Cleveland will have no O&O network stations. WJW is being put up for sale. Read about it here and let's all pray that Raycom doesn't buy it.



Why then is FOX remodeling the WJW news set (so it matches the "FOX" news look)? If CBS buys WJW then we would still have an O&O, just a different network's O&O. This would move the majority of the regular-season Browns games to WJW (that would be just fine with the Lerner family BTW).


----------



## JK77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I sure hope it's not Sinclair. I've read nothing but really really bad things about them here on AVS.



I can attest to that. I used to get The Tube on their one station's subchannel here until January 1, then they replaced it with a useless SD feed of the main channel just like their other station has on theirs.


Pray to the HDTV gods that they don't get involved, or they too will give you useless SD simulcast subchannels!


----------



## TLaz

I just got an e-mail from the marketing department at WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT. They plan on starting HDTV transmissions on Tuesday 6/26 at 9am on channel 49.1 and 45.1 respectively.


I'm looking forward to being able to access PBS-HD programming in NE Ohio again.


----------



## hookbill

So I see from Inundated that TW is ripping me off. Charging too much for Road Runner Zoom. So I call Customer Service and say what's the deal. Apology comes and a refund is promised along with lower prices.


She also decided to turn off my HD box.










I call cs and they explain to me that I do not have an HD box I have a DVR, non HD (here we go again). I say no and after much ado the box is turned on.


Except there is no High Tier HD.


I call again and go through all the stuff again and they fix the High Tier HD.


Except they turned off my digital tier.


I call about the digital tier and they fix that again. But the High Tier HD is off again.


I call again and get a CSR who tells me that they have to do a truck roll.










I say, thank you, apparently you haven't worked here long.


I call again and a CSR desperately tries to help me but then says I got to call back on Monday because unless the wherehouse has the right numbers for my box this is never going to get straightened out. (Remember, it was fine until I called about my internet bill.)


So it's a new day and I call TW. The CSR tells me that I need a truck roll to confirm what I am saying. I say thank you, I don't think you know what you're talking about. I call back. I get a very nice rep who calls the wherehouse, leaves a vm with the supervisor and promtply puts my hd stations back.


Except the digital tier is gone (again).


I call again and get the same rep I talked to the first time so she decides to show me and after I give her my number she says one moment....and dumps me back into the que.


I call my contact an head end and leave her a message.


I call again and I am then told that the only way to resolve this is to bring the box down to TW or roll a truck.


I get in my car and go to TW.


They are closed from 1:00 to 2:00. That's ok, I've only got 5 minutes to wait in the 95 degree heat.


I bring the box in and the rep says no, the box is listed correctly and proceeds to program it with all my stuff. We go through everything. I think.


When I get home I plug it in, boot it up and it works fine.


Except there is no HBO.










I call Customer Service again and say I have no HBO. The CSR mumbles a bit and says "My supervisor will have to do this. We will have it on for you in 15 minutes.


True to her work 15 minutes later HBO is back on.


Except my HD Higher Tier is not working.


I call again and a very nice rep says we will get it working right! She fixes the HD Higher Tier. And promptly looses my digital tier.


Call waiting rings, it's my contact at head end. She says go on with the rep and if that doesn't work call her back.


The rep then looses all my digital channels. All I have is analog. No HD. Nothing. She says, "Oh my, I don't know what tod do."


Thanks, I have to go. I call my contact at head end.


2 hours go by and she calls me back. She says she's not at a terminal but has a supervisor working on it.


At 6:00 pm I got a call from a "resolution specialist". Finally it's fixed. Everything.


The End.


Thanks a bunch, Inundated!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Holy ****!


----------



## paule123

Today (June 18) was supposed to be launch day for UVerse in Cleveland...


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I see from Inundated that TW is ripping me off. Charging too much for Road Runner Zoom. So I call Customer Service and say what's the deal. Apology comes and a refund is promised along with lower prices.



Yow.... I would write a letter and demand a free month's service in exchange for the trouble they put you through. I laughed out loud when I read your post...until I had the thought that my cable box could be next


----------



## Smarty-pants

UuuVerse?... UuuVerse?... Uuuverse?... Uuuverse?...


----------



## RussTC3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got an e-mail from the marketing department at WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT. They plan on starting HDTV transmissions on Tuesday 6/26 at 9am on channel 49.1 and 45.1 respectively.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to being able to access PBS-HD programming in NE Ohio again.



Great News! I've never seen PBS-HD programming. I can't wait!


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RussTC3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great News! I've never seen PBS-HD programming. I can't wait!



Russ, if they do it as well as WQED, Pittsburgh, you're in for a treat!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're on TWC-ex-Adelphia and had Adelphia's higher-speed Internet service, listen up.
> 
> 
> Check your bill and see if TWC is billing you for Road Runner Premium ($17/mo. extra).
> 
> 
> Road Runner Turbo is, at least in the Cleveland ex-Adelphia market, $9.95 a month on top of the standard service. If you go to twcneo.com and find the former Adelphia/Comcast channel lineups, all of them have the current pricing, and that's there in the Cleveland-area lineups.



Thanks for the tip. I checked my bill, and it turns out that they are billing me correctly (amazing, no?). But since I have no idea what these various options are, I thought I'd ask. I'm fairly confident that I'll get more accurate info here than I would by asking anyone at TWC.


I seem to have Road Runner Standard, which costs me $42.95 per month (since I own my modem). I seem to have several other options: 1) Road Runner Basic, which appears to cost about $18/month less than what I'm paying now, 2) Road Runner Turbo, which seems to cost an additional $10/month, and 3) Road Runner Premium, which apparently costs even more (though it's not listed on the rate card).


As far as I can tell, the Premium package just gives me membership in some dubious websites that are of no value to me.


The Turbo package claims speeds of up to 15mbps for download. Does anyone have any real world tests to back that up? And what is the corresponding upload speed? That might be worth paying an extra $10.


And what is the Basic package? Just how crippled is it?


Thanks in advance to anyone who knows.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip. I checked my bill, and it turns out that they are billing me correctly (amazing, no?). But since I have no idea what these various options are, I thought I'd ask. I'm fairly confident that I'll get more accurate info here than I would by asking anyone at TWC.
> 
> 
> I seem to have Road Runner Standard, which costs me $42.95 per month (since I own my modem). I seem to have several other options: 1) Road Runner Basic, which appears to cost about $18/month less than what I'm paying now, 2) Road Runner Turbo, which seems to cost an additional $10/month, and 3) Road Runner Premium, which apparently costs even more (though it's not listed on the rate card).
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell, the Premium package just gives me membership in some dubious websites that are of no value to me.
> 
> 
> The Turbo package claims speeds of up to 15mbps for download. Does anyone have any real world tests to back that up? And what is the corresponding upload speed? That might be worth paying an extra $10.
> 
> 
> And what is the Basic package? Just how crippled is it?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance to anyone who knows.



There are plenty of places to check your internet speed. I like this one. I think it's worth the extra 10 bucks because I use Voip and my wife I both play games from time to time on the internet.


----------



## Vietcu

Does anyone know where they got moved to? I live out of akron ohio and the service around here are time warner cable. I used to get NBC on channel 80-1, ABC 104-1 without using their digital box. But now for some reason NBC is gone, must have been moved. I cant seem to find it when I do a serch on my tv, does anyone know where they moved the channel to?


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip. I checked my bill, and it turns out that they are billing me correctly (amazing, no?). But since I have no idea what these various options are, I thought I'd ask. I'm fairly confident that I'll get more accurate info here than I would by asking anyone at TWC.
> 
> 
> I seem to have Road Runner Standard, which costs me $42.95 per month (since I own my modem). I seem to have several other options: 1) Road Runner Basic, which appears to cost about $18/month less than what I'm paying now, 2) Road Runner Turbo, which seems to cost an additional $10/month, and 3) Road Runner Premium, which apparently costs even more (though it's not listed on the rate card).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Turbo package claims speeds of up to 15mbps for download. Does anyone have any real world tests to back that up? And what is the corresponding upload speed? That might be worth paying an extra $10.
> 
> .



Massillon Cable employees claims to use
http://performance.toast.net/


----------



## paule123

Some of my faves (all free) :

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ 

http://helpme.att.net/dsl/speedtest/ 

http://speedtest.dslreports.com 

http://www.internetfrog.com/mypc/speedtest/


----------



## JJkizak

Jim Gillliland:

Just make sure you use a router switch instead of a hub if you have multiple computers in the house. A hub will cut the speed in half depending on the number of machines whereas a router switch will not affect speed. I personally use Windstream at 1.5 meg and it is right on the money. Once in a while it will be slow depending on the website you are on. As for cable all the people I know say if it is busy it is slowed down substantially but that is just what they say.

JJK


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vietcu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know where they got moved to? I live out of akron ohio and the service around here are time warner cable. I used to get NBC on channel 80-1, ABC 104-1 without using their digital box. But now for some reason NBC is gone, must have been moved. I cant seem to find it when I do a serch on my tv, does anyone know where they moved the channel to?



You must not watch much tv... ever







. NBC QAM was moved to 101.1 and 101.2 a couple of months ago.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are plenty of places to check your internet speed.



I'm not worried about testing MY speed - I've done that plenty of times. What I want to know is what to expect from those other alternatives - the "Basic" service or the "Turbo" service.


So how much slower is the "Basic" service, and how much faster is the "Turbo" service? And what about the "Premium" service - is that faster than the "Turbo" service, or is it the same? Anyone know? If TWC is offering four different levels of internet service, there must be some differences among them.


Does the "Turbo" service really deliver 15mbps down? That would be quite a bit faster than their standard service. It would probably be worth an extra ten bucks/month if that claim isn't exaggerated.


(I just reread my earlier note, and I'm not sure why anyone thought that I was asking about the speed of my existing service. There must be some ambiguity in my words that I'm just not seeing.)


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just make sure you use a router switch instead of a hub if you have multiple computers in the house. A hub will cut the speed in half depending on the number of machines whereas a router switch will not affect speed.



Unless you're getting a much faster connection from TWC than I am, I can't imagine that making any difference. With 100 megabits (wired) or even 54 megabits (wifi), you could easily cut it in half and still have a home network that runs much faster than the TWC connection.


My network is wired with several switches. But even if I put in hubs, it wouldn't slow things down anywhere near the TWC speed. The cable modem is the bottleneck, not the hub or the switch.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not worried about testing MY speed - I've done that plenty of times. What I want to know is what to expect from those other alternatives - the "Basic" service or the "Turbo" service.
> 
> 
> So how much slower is the "Basic" service, and how much faster is the "Turbo" service? And what about the "Premium" service - is that faster than the "Turbo" service, or is it the same? Anyone know? If TWC is offering four different levels of internet service, there must be some differences among them.
> 
> 
> Does the "Turbo" service really deliver 15mbps down? That would be quite a bit faster than their standard service. It would probably be worth an extra ten bucks/month if that claim isn't exaggerated.
> 
> 
> (I just reread my earlier note, and I'm not sure why anyone thought that I was asking about the speed of my existing service. There must be some ambiguity in my words that I'm just not seeing.)



I don't know how TWC "turbo" works, but I've read where other cable providers boost the initial download speed, then it tapers off to something less. Something like your download will start at 15Mbps for a few minutes, then gradually get reduced down to a standard 6Mbps for the rest of the download. I guess the objective being people who only do short downloads will notice a speed increase, but the bandwidth hog movie downloaders won't cripple the network.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know how TWC "turbo" works, but I've read where other cable providers boost the initial download speed, then it tapers off to something less. Something like your download will start at 15Mbps for a few minutes, then gradually get reduced down to a standard 6Mbps for the rest of the download. I guess the objective being people who only do short downloads will notice a speed increase, but the bandwidth hog movie downloaders won't cripple the network.



Interesting, thanks. Of course, even 6mbps would be a bit faster than the 4 or so that I see now. But a slow-down approach like that would make it a lot less interesting. The only time you really need the speed is when you're downloading something quite large. Otherwise, the standard speed is plenty.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (I just reread my earlier note, and I'm not sure why anyone thought that I was asking about the speed of my existing service. There must be some ambiguity in my words that I'm just not seeing.)



I understood what you were asking. I just thought I'd provide the link in case you didn't have any idea what your current speed was. Unfortunately I couldn't answer your questions. I even just searched Road Runner to see if there were comparison speeds.


Sorry if I didn't meet the expectations you desired.


----------



## JJkizak

I still think someone is messing around engineering wise at 8.1 OTA. The local live news main desk set is noisy and lower resolution than other sets which are just fine. All the network stuff is the same quality as before. The sparkle in their eyes is gone as a lot of the facial zits and it is just on that set's cameras. When they switch to a different location on the set everything is fine. The difference is extremely noticeable. Signal strength is 98. This is on my 1080P set.

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still think someone is messing around engineering wise at 8.1 OTA. The local live news main desk set is noisy and lower resolution than other sets which are just fine. All the network stuff is the same quality as before. The sparkle in their eyes is gone as a lot of the facial zits and it is just on that set's cameras. When they switch to a different location on the set everything is fine. The difference is extremely noticeable. Signal strength is 98. This is on my 1080P set.
> 
> JJK



I heard that FOX 8 is remodeling their news set. They moved the old set to another studio, so there may be a difference in the lighting which might be causing the differences you are seeing.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understood what you were asking. I just thought I'd provide the link in case you didn't have any idea what your current speed was. Unfortunately I couldn't answer your questions. I even just searched Road Runner to see if there were comparison speeds. Sorry if I didn't meet the expectations you desired.



Thanks for attempting the research. I wasn't able to find anything when I did it either. With so many responses about speed testing, I just thought that I'd been misunderstood.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I heard that FOX 8 is remodeling their news set. They moved the old set to another studio, so there may be a difference in the lighting which might be causing the differences you are seeing.



Yes, they're remodeling right now. I'm sure this explains the differences in appearance.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, they're remodeling right now. I'm sure this explains the differences in appearance.



Which makes this whole "sale" thing so strange because they are suppose to have a set that looks similar to FOX News.










Seems like a waste of money if you're putting the station up for sale, but what the heck do I know.


----------



## Inundated

hookbill, I'm sorry you went through all that, though I'm not responsible










Heck, even with what I went through, I kept all the services I had!


BTW, I do believe "Premium" at $17/mo. includes all those various website memberships, and that "Turbo"'s speed - they told me - is supposed to be 8Mbps. It checks out with my own speed tests. It's the same speed Adelphia bumped me up to, when I first signed up for it under their ownership.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You must not watch much tv... ever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . NBC QAM was moved to 101.1 and 101.2 a couple of months ago.



What is the difference between QAM & ATSC tuners?? is the QAM for cable?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One word, also off topic: VONAGE



TY bill... but no HS internet yet, I'm still on dialup....


but for $22/mo total for *ALL* my communications... I guess I can't complain that loud.










That vonage actually work? I got a voice optiion with my isp I leave it off, it's terrible sound , choppy, drops out & crashes the pc.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the difference between QAM & ATSC tuners?? is the QAM for cable?


 QAM is a modulation scheme cable uses for ATSC signals. 8VSB is the modulation scheme used for OTA transmissions of ATSC signals. Generally if you find a tuner that is only an "ATSC" tuner, then it will only do 8VSB demodulation. If you find one that also supports QAM, then you have found one that can do 8VSB and QAM demodulation.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not worried about testing MY speed - I've done that plenty of times. What I want to know is what to expect from those other alternatives - the "Basic" service or the "Turbo" service.
> 
> 
> So how much slower is the "Basic" service, and how much faster is the "Turbo" service? And what about the "Premium" service - is that faster than the "Turbo" service, or is it the same? Anyone know? If TWC is offering four different levels of internet service, there must be some differences among them.
> 
> 
> Does the "Turbo" service really deliver 15mbps down? That would be quite a bit faster than their standard service. It would probably be worth an extra ten bucks/month if that claim isn't exaggerated.
> 
> 
> (I just reread my earlier note, and I'm not sure why anyone thought that I was asking about the speed of my existing service. There must be some ambiguity in my words that I'm just not seeing.)



Jim,


TWC is running commercials for $24.95 internet service. I assume this is their "Basic" service. The fine print on the commercial says 768kbps.


Chris.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TWC is running commercials for $24.95 internet service. I assume this is their "Basic" service. The fine print on the commercial says 768kbps.



That makes sense. Positions them to compete with dial-up and even some DSL. I don't think I'd want to live with that data rate, though. Thanks.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TY bill... but no HS internet yet, I'm still on dialup....
> 
> 
> but for $22/mo total for *ALL* my communications... I guess I can't complain that loud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That vonage actually work? I got a voice optiion with my isp I leave it off, it's terrible sound , choppy, drops out & crashes the pc.



If you are using a dialup that's why it sounds choppy and crashes the PC. That same service on a true broadband connection should work fine.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got an e-mail from the marketing department at WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT. They plan on starting HDTV transmissions on Tuesday 6/26 at 9am on channel 49.1 and 45.1 respectively.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to being able to access PBS-HD programming in NE Ohio again.



I was just wondering last night if WEAO/WNEO would come through with their 'on or before July 1st' statement. This is great news. I'll make sure to check them out tomorrow night to see what they are broadcasting. I've yet to see PBS HD yet, so I'm really looking forward to this.


----------



## wlgann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> UuuVerse?... UuuVerse?... Uuuverse?... Uuuverse?...



It debuts today in SOME NE Ohio communities.


Good luck getting information on it out of AT&T though.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wlgann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It debuts today in SOME NE Ohio communities.
> 
> 
> Good luck getting information on it out of AT&T though.



You can check availability at http://uverse.att.com 


Based on what I've read from previous UVerse rollouts in other areas, the website qualifier is not always accurate or up to date and a phone call might yield better results.


I'm getting nothing with my home and work numbers.


----------



## paule123

AT&T Introduces U-verse in Cleveland Area


High Definition Programming and Other Compelling Features Make AT&T U-verse TV Cooler Than Cable


Through June 30, New Customers May Receive Two Months of Free TV With 60-Day Money-Back Guarantee


Cleveland, Ohio, June 25, 2007


A new world of communications and entertainment is now available to residents in the Cleveland area. AT&T Inc. (NYSE:T) today announced the launch of AT&T U-verseSM, which utilizes AT&T's new fiber-rich network to offer cutting-edge television and high speed Internet services. AT&T is the only national provider to offer a 100 percent Internet Protocol (IP)-based television service, making U-verse TV "cooler than cable" and one of the most robust and feature-rich services available today.


AT&T U-verse services are initially available in parts of the Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor metropolitan statistical area (MSA), including Bay Village, Berea, Broadview Heights, Brooklyn, Euclid, Fairview Park, Lakewood, Lyndhurst, Mayfield Heights, Mentor, North Royalton, Orange, Solon, South Euclid, Warrensville Heights, Westlake, Willoughby Hills and Willowick. AT&T will continue to increase availability throughout the area on an ongoing basis.


AT&T U-verse offers customers a combination of next-generation digital television including access to more than 26 High Definition (HD) channels and high speed Internet access. The award-winning AT&T U-verse TV includes cutting-edge features that are unmatched in the market, while the new U-verse enabled AT&T Yahoo!® High Speed Internet builds on AT&T's position as the nation's leading provider of broadband DSL.


"Our Ohio customers have told us they're ready for a new video choice and eager to get all of their communications and entertainment services from AT&T," said Kevin Petersen, AT&T vice president and general manager for Ohio. "We're further demonstrating our ability to deliver what customers want with the launch of AT&T U-verse TV."


Beginning today, AT&T U-verse TV will offer Cleveland area residents:


A compelling variety of TV packages with more than 320 channels to choose from, including digital music, local, and premium movie and sports programming.

More HD programming than the local cable providers. HD technology produces images more than twice as detailed as standard analog TV, delivering rich, realistic video and multi-channel, movie-theater-quality sound. AT&T U-verse TV offers customers access to a lineup of more than 26 HD channels, available in both 720p and 1080i formats, along with HD digital video recording (DVR) capability. Through June 30, with select packages, new customers can receive one year of free access to HD programming ($10 a month thereafter).

AT&T Yahoo! Web and Mobile Remote Access to DVR, which allows U-verse TV and Internet customers to schedule recordings from any Web-connected PC or compatible AT&T mobile phone (wireless service charges apply) using their AT&T Yahoo!® account. These features are unique to AT&T among local video providers.

The ability to record up to four programs at once using a DVR receiver, another exclusive feature unmatched in the marketplace.

Built-in Picture-in-Picture functionality that allows subscribers to "channel surf" on any television without leaving the program they're watching.

Fast channel-changing, reducing the delay experienced with other digital video services.

A growing Video on Demand library with one-touch access to movies and events.

Specially designed U-verse receivers, manufactured by Motorola, all of which are HD-capable and include universal remote controls that provide backlit buttons and one-touch access to Video on Demand, DVR, and other services.

A premium Spanish-language package featuring novelas, movies, news, sports, children's programming, talk shows and more. Through June 30, new customers can receive the package at no charge for the first two months ($10 a month thereafter).

The ability to search for programs using title or actor's name.

Easy-to-use parental controls to block live programs, recorded programs or videos by specific channel or ratings.

Three HD-capable TV receivers one with a DVR, which allows customers to pause, rewind, replay and record live TV at no extra charge with most programming packages. (Customers may add more receivers for $5 each a month.)

Customers can choose from five TV and three Internet packages to customize their entertainment experience. In addition to the popular U300 and U400 packages, AT&T also offers U-family, a market-leading family-friendly programming option. Current AT&T U-verse TV offers start as low as $44 a month, depending on the selected programming and Internet packages (other monthly charges apply).


Now through June 30, qualified new customers can join AT&T U-verse and receive free TV service, including HBO® and Cinemax®, for the first two full months when they choose the U300 or U400 programming package (other monthly charges apply). Thereafter, customers will continue to receive regular recurring monthly discounts on their U-verse package when they subscribe to a bundle of TV and Internet services. Also, AT&T is offering new customers a 60-day money-back guarantee, and customers who order U-verse TV and Internet by phone receive free professional installation.


Three packages of AT&T Yahoo! High Speed Internet U-verse Enabled will be made available to AT&T U-verse customers:


Elite: Downstream up to 6.0 Mbps, upstream up to 1.0 Mbps.

Pro: Downstream up to 3.0 Mbps, upstream up to 1.0 Mbps.

Express: Downstream up to 1.5 Mbps, upstream up to 1.0 Mbps.

All high speed Internet packages offered as part of AT&T U-verse include wireless home-networking at no additional charge, giving users the freedom to access online photos, streaming video, games and other information using a wireless-enabled laptop or other device. Subscribers also receive virtually unlimited e-mail storage and powerful anti-virus and anti-spam software.


The deployment of next-generation video services reflects AT&T's strategy to become customers' preferred communications and entertainment provider and to deliver a video solution through its traditional footprint that provides greater value, flexibility and simplicity than competitors' offerings. AT&T U-verse TV represents a critical new service in the company's video portfolio, which includes AT&T HomezoneSM service and satellite broadcast offerings. AT&T U-verse TV also underscores the company's strategy to deliver integrated services to the three screens that consumers value most: the TV, the PC and the wireless phone.


Customers seeking additional information on AT&T U-verse or to find out if it's available in their area can visit uverse.att.com.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=23998


----------



## paule123

Akron

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=23997 


"AT&T U-verse services are initially available in parts of the Akron metropolitan statistical area (MSA), including Cuyahoga Falls, Fairlawn, Kent,

Munroe Falls, Silver Lake, and Stow. AT&T will continue to increase availability throughout the area on an ongoing basis. "


----------



## gnalmij

Paule123 - U-verse initially is being offered in the Cleveland and Akron area in cities which entered into video competition agreements with AT&T over the last year. AT&T attempted to reach agreement with Shaker Heights and Beachwood, but was unsuccessful. These cities have, however, allowed AT&T to continue the upgrade of its telecom network that is necessary to provide U-verse (as well as voice and high-speed Internet). Indeed, I believe you were the first to post a sighting early last year of a new Lightspeed cabinet installed in Shaker Heights. In those cities where AT&T lacks a video competition agreement, U-verse probably will not be offered until later this year when AT&T obtains statewide video authorization under Am. Sub. S.B. 117 (assuming Governor Strickland signs it).


----------



## Smarty-pants

Channel 5 news had something on it today, but I did not hear the story... just like the last few seconds of it. I swear that they called it U-serve though. Maybe just a slip of the tongue? Anyway, stated that this is the first time a phone company has tried to compete with cable. Like I said though, I missed most of the segment.


----------



## gnalmij

Governor Strickland signed Am. Sub. S.B. 117 today, so it goes into effect on September 23rd. After that date, incumbent cable providers facing competition, as well as new entrants into the video market such as AT&T, will be able to apply to the Ohio Department of Commerce for a video service authorization to provide video service within Ohio. This means that, probably sometime in October, residents of Shaker Heights, Beachwood and other cities (such as my own Luddite city of University Heights) that have not entered into a video competition agreement with AT&T can look for U-verse offerings.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just wondering last night if WEAO/WNEO would come through with their 'on or before July 1st' statement. This is great news. I'll make sure to check them out tomorrow night to see what they are broadcasting. I've yet to see PBS HD yet, so I'm really looking forward to this.



Thx for the reminder. It'll be interesting to see if we can receive the ota signal. I'm looking forward to it - more HD is always welcome.


----------



## dleising

Here's the channel lineup for the Cleveland/Akron viewing area:

http://www.att.com/Common/files/pdf/...nel_Lineup.pdf 


Looks like the HD programming costs extra...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's the channel lineup for the Cleveland/Akron viewing area:
> 
> http://www.att.com/Common/files/pdf/...nel_Lineup.pdf
> 
> 
> Looks like the HD programming costs extra...



Nice find. Kinda hard to get a lineup on the ATT website when none of the phone numbers are available for service.










I notice they have STO in the lineup but not STO-HD...


ATT is offering the $10/mo HD tier free for the first year. But word on the street is the HD PQ sucks...


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just wondering last night if WEAO/WNEO would come through with their 'on or before July 1st' statement. This is great news. I'll make sure to check them out tomorrow night to see what they are broadcasting. I've yet to see PBS HD yet, so I'm really looking forward to this.



PBS 45 & 49 are pleased to announce that we are now broadcasting in HD on both 45.1 and 49.1. The picture is full HD, 1080i, at 13 mbps. Our HD program schedule can be viewed at http://pbs4549.org/schedule.htm . The HD channel will be on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

The rebroadcast of our analog signal is still located at 45.2 and 49.2

At this time the Create! channel, previously located at 45.1 and 49.1, and The Ohio Channel, at 45.3 and 49.3, are no longer being broadcast.


I hope you enjoy this new broadcast service. Please let me know if you have quality issues or other comments.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## Smarty-pants

now we who watch via qam just need Warner to add pbs-hd and wuab-hd to the qam hd lineup.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PBS 45 & 49 are pleased to announce that we are now broadcasting in HD on both 45.1 and 49.1. The picture is full HD, 1080i, at 13 mbps. Our HD program schedule can be viewed at http://pbs4549.org/schedule.htm . The HD channel will be on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
> 
> The rebroadcast of our analog signal is still located at 45.2 and 49.2
> 
> At this time the Create! channel, previously located at 45.1 and 49.1, and The Ohio Channel, at 45.3 and 49.3, are no longer being broadcast.
> 
> 
> I hope you enjoy this new broadcast service. Please let me know if you have quality issues or other comments.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Did a complete channel rescan and I'm picking up 49.1 and 49.2 loud and clear here in Shaker Heights via Silver Sensor antenna (on the 3rd floor) . However, there's a blank 49.3 channel there, and it locks up my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA tuner when I tune to it. I have to disconnect the antenna input and reboot the tuner to be able to get off that channel.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PBS 45 & 49 are pleased to announce that we are now broadcasting in HD on both 45.1 and 49.1. The picture is full HD, 1080i, at 13 mbps...
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



I've been watching this morning and it looks very good. It's great to have PBS HD programming back. Will you be able to transmit Dolby 5.1 audio?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> PBS 45 & 49 are pleased to announce that we are now broadcasting in HD on both 45.1 and 49.1. The picture is full HD, 1080i, at 13 mbps. Our HD program schedule can be viewed at http://pbs4549.org/schedule.htm . The HD channel will be on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
> 
> The rebroadcast of our analog signal is still located at 45.2 and 49.2
> 
> At this time the Create! channel, previously located at 45.1 and 49.1, and The Ohio Channel, at 45.3 and 49.3, are no longer being broadcast.
> 
> 
> I hope you enjoy this new broadcast service. Please let me know if you have quality issues or other comments.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Great news! Is the HD broadcast the PBS HD feed or is it a simulcast of the analog 45 & 49?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did a complete channel rescan and I'm picking up 49.1 and 49.2 loud and clear here in Shaker Heights via Silver Sensor antenna (on the 3rd floor) . However, there's a blank 49.3 channel there, and it locks up my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA tuner when I tune to it. I have to disconnect the antenna input and reboot the tuner to be able to get off that channel.



Which digital position is 45.1 and 49.1 (like wkyc is 2 and Fox is 31). 45.1 isn't showing in the guide and 49.1 is 'searching for signal'.


thx, Tom


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which digital position is 45.1 and 49.1 (like wkyc is 2 and Fox is 31). 45.1 isn't showing in the guide and 49.1 is 'searching for signal'.
> 
> 
> thx, Tom



WNEO is in Salem. 45.1 HD and 45.2 SD are on RF channel 46.

WEAO is in Copley. 49.1 HD and 49.2 SD are on RF channel 50.

The PSIP data, however, points to digital 45 and 49.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did a complete channel rescan and I'm picking up 49.1 and 49.2 loud and clear here in Shaker Heights via Silver Sensor antenna (on the 3rd floor) . However, there's a blank 49.3 channel there, and it locks up my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA tuner when I tune to it. I have to disconnect the antenna input and reboot the tuner to be able to get off that channel.



The PSIP information had to be changed. 49.3/45.3 should be gone now.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great news! Is the HD broadcast the PBS HD feed or is it a simulcast of the analog 45 & 49?



It is a full service HD feed from PBS. It includes some upconverted SD to HD and does have some repeats... but looks great. I understand that there is no 5.1 yet, but there will be in the future (equipment issue.. increase your membership!)


45.2 and 49.2 are simulcast from analog.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great news! Is the HD broadcast the PBS HD feed or is it a simulcast of the analog 45 & 49?



PBS HD is a totally different schedule from the analog feed. You can see the schedule online by visiting PBS 45/49's website or directly via Titan TV.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WNEO is in Salem. 45.1 HD and 45.2 SD are on RF channel 46.
> 
> WEAO is in Copley. 49.1 HD and 49.2 SD are on RF channel 50.
> 
> The PSIP data, however, points to digital 45 and 49.



Thx for the info, unfortunately (near Mansfield) we're not receiving 46 or 50 with the antenna pointed toward Parma.


Tom


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thx for the info, unfortunately (near Mansfield) we're not receiving 46 or 50 with the antenna pointed toward Parma.
> 
> 
> Tom



Looks like you're right on the edge of the 41dBu circle and would need to turn the antenna further east. I know that it is doable, however.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like you're right on the edge of the 41dBu circle and would need to turn the antenna further east. I know that it is doable, however.



ok, thx.


----------



## JJkizak

I am getting PBS HD OTA real good accept for occasional dropouts.

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thx for the info, unfortunately (near Mansfield) we're not receiving 46 or 50 with the antenna pointed toward Parma.
> 
> 
> Tom



You need to tune to rf ch 50 and point towards west Akron to get WEAO-DT.


I'm in Parma and have a Silver Sensor aimed at West Akron on an A/B switch.


Even here in the sight of the towers, the reception is not very good from the back or side of an antenna. For the close UHF's I use an indoor loop antenna coupled with rabbit ears for the 2 VHF signals. This set-up ignores the Akron signals so that is why I use the Silver Sensor for Akron (the Silver Sensor's pattern is too narrow to accommodate the variations between WJW, WEWS, WUAB WQHS, and WBNX but the loop sees them all at nearly 125 strength on the E* scale without multipath) . I also have a rooftop UHF antenna aimed at Youngstown, so I have 2 A/B switches to make my set-up work (have they ever come out with an A/B/C switch?)


----------



## RussTC3

Watching PBS now. Picture looks slightly soft, but good. Strong signal reception at 94%.


Looking forward to Nova later in the evening, that'll be in HD too right?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am getting PBS HD OTA real good accept for occasional dropouts.
> 
> JJK



Great reception down here, too. Occasional video breakups and short audio dropouts are happening, though. Nothing serious. Picture looks amazing!


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great reception down here, too. Occasional video breakups and short audio dropouts are happening, though. Nothing serious. Picture looks amazing!



Good news. 49.1 is coming in loud and clear now without moving the antenna- it wasn't earlier. A few minor dropouts. Although the correct guide data for 49.1 is listed under 25.1.


I watched Nature "The Venom Cure" and Nova - first time ever in HD.


----------



## kinglerch

I am in Cleveland-east and I get 49.1 and 49.2 (49.1 being the only one in HD) from Akron, I guess 49.3 disappeared. I don't receive anything on 45.1, is that much lower power than 49.1? Is the programming different?


I don't know who did a channel scan last weekend, but I was able to get 11.1, 11.2, and 2.1 from Pittsburgh. The signal strength was very high...alas now they're gone.







Must have been the weather.


----------



## clevemkt




kinglerch said:


> I am in Cleveland-east and I get 49.1 and 49.2 (49.1 being the only one in HD) from Akron, I guess 49.3 disappeared. I don't receive anything on 45.1, is that much lower power than 49.1? Is the programming different?
> 
> 
> According to the FCC site: WEAO-DT is 180kW. WNEO-DT is 400kW. The antenna pattern for WNEO-DT is a north-south peanut shape and slights the Cleveland area. The programming is duplicated.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good news. 49.1 is coming in loud and clear now without moving the antenna- it wasn't earlier. A few minor dropouts. Although the correct guide data for 49.1 is listed under 25.1.
> 
> 
> I watched Nature "The Venom Cure" and Nova - first time ever in HD.




Tom- I looked at the guide data on the PBS 45 49 website.... which guide were you looking at?


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom- I looked at the guide data on the PBS 45 49 website.... which guide were you looking at?




The guide has both Anolog and HD listed

Prime Time tonight:

PBS 45 & 49

CHANNEL 45 Matt Morgan in Concert With Vito DiSalvo and We Three Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song

WNEO HD

[D] CHANNEL 45.1 History Detectives Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song

PBS 45 & 49 WNEO Digital

[D] CHANNEL 45.2 Matt Morgan in Concert With Vito DiSalvo and We Three Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song

WEAO HD

[D] CHANNEL 49.1 History Detectives Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song

PBS 45 & 49 WEAO Digital

[D] CHANNEL 49.2 Matt Morgan in Concert With Vito DiSalvo and We Three Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The guide has both Anolog and HD listed
> 
> Prime Time tonight:
> 
> PBS 45 & 49
> 
> CHANNEL 45 Matt Morgan in Concert With Vito DiSalvo and We Three Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song
> 
> WNEO HD
> 
> [D] CHANNEL 45.1 History Detectives Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song
> 
> PBS 45 & 49 WNEO Digital
> 
> [D] CHANNEL 45.2 Matt Morgan in Concert With Vito DiSalvo and We Three Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song
> 
> WEAO HD
> 
> [D] CHANNEL 49.1 History Detectives Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song
> 
> PBS 45 & 49 WEAO Digital
> 
> [D] CHANNEL 49.2 Matt Morgan in Concert With Vito DiSalvo and We Three Paul Simon: The Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Popular Song



Ognir- that's what I saw...but Tom said it said 25.1 which is the flea power WVIZ... I was curious as to which guide he was looking at...

Jim


----------



## Ognir




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ognir- that's what I saw...but Tom said it said 25.1 which is the flea power WVIZ... I was curious as to which guide he was looking at...
> 
> Jim



Don't know about that but I am watching "Generation Next: Speak Up, Be Heard" as I type this and in the lower right hand corner of the screen it says HD 45/49 and it is what is listed on the guide.


----------



## PBS4549

Thank you to everyone who has posted comments and questions about PBS 45 & 49's new HD broadcast. It really is great to have your assistance as we begin this new service.

There have been a couple of questions asked. Here's what I know as of Wednesday at 10 am.
Do we broadcast 5.1 audio? We don't think so, but we have some homework to do to know for sure. Right now our encoder receives ASI audio which would include the 5.1 data. However we don't see any bits on audio channels 3 and 4 which means whatever is going into the encoder on those channels is not getting out. The encoder was a state-of-the-art unit when we bought it five years ago. What we accept as standard now wasn't standard in 2002. We're looking into what is going on and will let you know.
What is on the program schedule? Our HD service carries many of the programs that are on our analog schedule but not necessarily at the same time. You can see what we're broadcasting on our web site pbs4549.org/schedule .
What's with 45.3 and 49.3? There is nothing being programmed on sub channel 3 so it shouldn't be there. Our engineers worked with the encoder yesterday afternoon and this should no longer be a problem.
What about the glitches and tiling? There are some issues with how our encoder does what it does. Our PSIP information is being generated externally but the encoder still wants to create PSIP. That, and a few other oddities, are eating up bandwidth. This reduces what we can push through the encoder and may be causing some of the hits. There may be other issues, like routing or internal wiring, which may be causing some problems. We are retracing the entire system to double check everything from satellite reception to the transmitter.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. As I find out more, or if you have other observations or questions, I'll get back in touch.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## schandorsky

I live in Amherst, we have TimeWarner Mentor/Elyria cable. Any word when they will pickup Hd 45/49?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom- I looked at the guide data on the PBS 45 49 website.... which guide were you looking at?



I think what he might be saying is that the guide data has yet to be updated on his specific receiver. I have Directv, the guide data has not yet updated to show the new PBS HD feed for 49.1. For 49.1, the guide is still showing the "Create" schedule. If I look at the guide data for 25.1 (PBS HD for WVIZ), it is showing what SHOULD be in the guide for 49.1. So it can be used as a temporary solution to see what is showing on 49.1.


It will probably just take some time before Tribune get the updated guide data for the new HD feed. When they do, it will eventually make it to my Directv HD receiver's guide. Unfortunately, until this happens, recordings cannot be set up on 49.1 without it showing up as the wrong program. Not a big deal. This will work itself out in time.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you to everyone who has posted comments and questions about PBS 45 & 49's new HD broadcast. It really is great to have your assistance as we begin this new service.
> 
> There have been a couple of questions asked. Here's what I know as of Wednesday at 10 am.
> 
> ...
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Thanks for the answers. Another one I had, is there/will there be any programming differences between 45 and 49? I also noticed some audio sync problems.


But let me be the first (not really) to say the channel looks great. Having another HD channel is huge, especially one with such unique content. ESPN3HD is not so interesting to me.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am in Cleveland-east and I get 49.1 and 49.2 (49.1 being the only one in HD) from Akron, I guess 49.3 disappeared. I don't receive anything on 45.1, is that much lower power than 49.1? Is the programming different?
> 
> 
> I don't know who did a channel scan last weekend, but I was able to get 11.1, 11.2, and 2.1 from Pittsburgh. The signal strength was very high...alas now they're gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must have been the weather.



While 45.1 is higher power, the location of the transmitter is in Salem. Unless you are in Portage or Stark Counties where the 2 signals overlap, you should only get _either_ 45-1 or 49-1 but not both (at least not both on a regular 24/7 basis).


The programming is identical on both stations, additionally WVIZ-DT 25-1 has the exact same schedule on their HD channel which may be why someone said the guide data was 25.1. All 3 HD feeds are the identical PBS HD feed, only the "bug" is different. BTW: It was that bug (or the inability to insert it) that kept PBS HD off WNEO/WEAO for so long. Those who can remember when WNEO/WEAO originally carried PBS HD there was no "legal ID" or bug on the screen on thwe "-1" signals.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the answers. Another one I had, is there/will there be any programming differences between 45 and 49? I also noticed some audio sync problems.
> 
> 
> But let me be the first (not really) to say the channel looks great. Having another HD channel is huge, especially one with such unique content. ESPN3HD is not so interesting to me.



When I first got an ATSC receiver in the fall of 2004 WEAO had a bad audio sync problem. So you say the problem still rears it's ugly head from time to time?


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When I first got an ATSC receiver in the fall of 2004 WEAO had a bad audio sync problem. So you say the problem still rears it's ugly head from time to time?



Unfortunately, sync issues are inherent with the digital processing system. The audio and video get separated in the various "boxes" from the satellite receiver, DAs, routers, switchers, etc. before the converter that multiplexes all of the streams together. Each box can affect the sync. That is fed via a digital microwave transmitter to the broadcast transmitter site where is is converted again (ASI to SMPTE310). Plenty of places for the audio/video sync to be lost. You'll note that all of the stations have had and continue to have issues. It will eventually be smoothed out. This ATSC system is being invented as it is being placed into service. And it can't be upgraded simply by reflashing the software. Hardware is very expensive. And stations, like most of us, have a budget... some tighter than others. We early adopters get to see the baby get born, withall of it's imperfections. But we can also help by providing our insight and our observations. Pretty cool place to be in. And... like Don Freeman and others from the stations-- reading and paying attention to the viewers. Like they say in the pledge drives... it is YOUR station. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom- I looked at the guide data on the PBS 45 49 website.... which guide were you looking at?



I'm looking at the guide on the HR10-250 HD D* box.


The guide data for 49.1 is showing up under channel 25.1. For example, at 1pm, the data for 49.1 says 'ciao italia' which I don't think is correct. 25.1 data reads 'nature' at 1pm(which I think is the program being aired on 49.1 at 1pm).


I can't tell for sure because 49.1 has disappeared again. It worked very well last night after about 8pm. There must be interference during the day that blocks it out. This same thing often happens to wkyc. The signal is weak during the day but luckily, when I'm watching or recording in the evening, it jumps up.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, sync issues are inherent with the digital processing system...Each box can affect the sync.



That also explains why the sync seemed perfect when the program began, became noticable as the program continued, and was most severe at the end.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While 45.1 is higher power, the location of the transmitter is in Salem. Unless you are in Portage or Stark Counties where the 2 signals overlap, you should only get _either_ 45-1 or 49-1 but not both (at least not both on a regular 24/7 basis)..



Both signals can also be received in Carroll, Columbiana, Mahoning, Trumbull and Tuscarawras counties in eastern Ohio.


----------



## TimSH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't tell for sure because 49.1 has disappeared again. It worked very well last night after about 8pm. There must be interference during the day that blocks it out. This same thing often happens to wkyc. The signal is weak during the day but luckily, when I'm watching or recording in the evening, it jumps up.



I had this kind of problem myself before the switch. I haven't had time to check since then to see if the pattern is still there as far as when it drops out. I guess I shouldn't complain since I'm in North Olmsted and just using an indoor antenna (from my 7th floor apartment). At least I can pick it up, unlike 25, which is far closer.


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the answers. Another one I had, is there/will there be any programming differences between 45 and 49? I also noticed some audio sync problems.



There are no differences in the programming between 45.1 and 49.1 or 45.2 and 49.2. There are many programming options available to us in the future because of digital broadcasting. Its too early to tell which path we'll choose.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Both signals can also be received in Carroll, Columbiana, Mahoning, Trumbull and Tuscarawras counties in eastern Ohio.



Thank you for reminding me that although this forum is focused on Cleveland it certainly includes viewers in the Valley. Yes, WNEO, broadcasting from our antenna west of Salem, covers the entire Mahoning Valley. TV viewers there can see our PBS 45 & 49 HD programming 24/7 now, too on 45.1.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in Amherst, we have TimeWarner Mentor/Elyria cable. Any word when they will pickup Hd 45/49?



You ask an interesting question. The quick answer is "no, I don't know." The reality is that stations that broadcast in HD have no legal power to require a cable system to carry their broadcast. PBS stations are very pleased that there is an agreement between PBS and Time Warner which indicates that Time Warner will air all the digital channels from PBS stations. It may take some time, but I'm confident that Time Warner Northeast Ohio will honor that agreement.

You can help by making a call to your local cable provider and requesting that they add either 45.1 or 49.1 HD to their lineup. If you encounter difficulties you might want to contact your local paper's media writer. We've made them aware of our recent change and the importance of getting our non-commercial service on cable HD tiers.

As a convenience here is contact information:


Rich Heldenfels, Akron Beacon Journal -- 330-996-3582 ([email protected])


Julie Washington, The Plain Dealer -- 216-999-4800 ([email protected])


Rex Huffman, Times Reporter -- 330-364-5577 ([email protected])


David Glasier, News-Herald (Geauga & Lake counties) -- 440-951-0000 (news room) ([email protected])


Guy D'Astolfo, The Vindicator (Trumbull/Warren/Mahoning) -- 330-747-1471, ext. 1506 ([email protected])


Thank you for your help.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Both signals can also be received in Carroll, Columbiana, Mahoning, Trumbull and Tuscarawras counties in eastern Ohio.



Depending on my antenna positioning, I can get both 45 and 49 here in southwest Canton..The WNEO digital channels are slightly stronger. I would like to see the Ohio Channel and Create come back in the near future..


Edit: I just read on the Youngstown Boards that Create and the other digital channels may not be back till sometime in 2008..


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You ask an interesting question. The quick answer is "no, I don't know." The reality is that stations that broadcast in HD have no legal power to require a cable system to carry their broadcast. PBS stations are very pleased that there is an agreement between PBS and Time Warner which indicates that Time Warner will air all the digital channels from PBS stations. It may take some time, but I'm confident that Time Warner Northeast Ohio will honor that agreement.



Don, is TWC NEO carrying your HD feed anywhere? The reason I ask is because their Akron channel lineup lists your HD feed at channel 549...was it there before you changed the setup before?


And TWC has had WNEO HD listed at channel 715 on the former Adelphia Cleveland system since they took it over last year...though obviously, the actual channel hasn't been there since you haven't been broadcasting in HD until now.


Would this be considered a good sign that you'll show up soon?


----------



## paule123

FWIW, I watch the NewsHour almost every night and notice audio sync issues quite often on the SD channel, so I don't necessarily know that it's a digital TV/HD problem.


Edit: I've emailed my contact at WOW cable asking about WNEO/WEAO HD carriage.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FWIW, I watch the NewsHour almost every night and notice audio sync issues quite often on the SD channel, so I don't necessarily know that it's a digital TV/HD problem.
> 
> 
> Edit: I've emailed my contact at WOW cable asking about WNEO/WEAO HD carriage.



I did the same a while back for TW. It's funny, because they actually have it listed on their website that they carry it for almost a year. It's been on my TiVo Guide as well because of that.


Edit: Innundated beat me to the punch. Missed his post.


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don, is TWC NEO carrying your HD feed anywhere? The reason I ask is because their Akron channel lineup lists your HD feed at channel 549...was it there before you changed the setup before?
> 
> 
> And TWC has had WNEO HD listed at channel 715 on the former Adelphia Cleveland system since they took it over last year...though obviously, the actual channel hasn't been there since you haven't been broadcasting in HD until now.
> 
> 
> Would this be considered a good sign that you'll show up soon?



I'm taking it as a good sign. We talked to a TW technician yesterday on another issue and off-handedly asked if he knew where TW was on adding our HD to the lineup. Since he isn't a decision maker the response we got was appropriate, and encouraging. They're working on it.

Fingers crossed that we'll all be able to enjoy the Capital Fourth next Wednesday at 8 in glorious HD.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will you be able to transmit Dolby 5.1 audio?



Here's an update on my previous posting on Dolby 5.1 audio. We've talked to the manufacturer of our encoder and done some rechecking internally. I'm happy to report that when a PBS program is fed to us in Dolby 5.1 it will be broadcast on 45.1 and 49.1 as Dolby 5.1 audio. I've checked through the upcoming schedule and the best way to hear Dolby 5.1 is on the _Paul Simon: The Library of Congress_ tribute which is broadcast Sunday July 1 at 3 pm, or on the upcoming _SoundStage_ programs which air Thursdays at 10 pm.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's an update on my previous posting on Dolby 5.1 audio. We've talked to the manufacturer of our encoder and done some rechecking internally. I'm happy to report that when a PBS program is fed to us in Dolby 5.1 it will be broadcast on 45.1 and 49.1 as Dolby 5.1 audio. I've checked through the upcoming schedule and the best way to hear Dolby 5.1 is on the _Paul Simon: The Library of Congress_ tribute which is broadcast Sunday July 1 at 3 pm, or on the upcoming _SoundStage_ programs which air Thursdays at 10 pm.



I can report that the Paul Simon special is wonderful, in both technical and artistic terms. However, it seems to have come through in stereo here (via WVIZ) rather than 5.1. Nonetheless, it's well worth watching for those who appreciate his music.


Later edit: I've confirmed that the stream from WVIZ (via TWC) was AC3 2.0. If it really is in 5.1 from PBS, then hopefully 45/49 will pass it on correctly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Later edit: I've confirmed that the stream from WVIZ (via TWC) was AC3 2.0. If it really is in 5.1 from PBS, then hopefully 45/49 will pass it on correctly.



I can't think of anyting I've seen on WVIZ that's 5.1.


Here's a question. If WNEO does show the PBS "Hi Def" channel, why would TW carry it? I mean wouldn't it be basically the same channel that they are already showing?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't think of anyting I've seen on WVIZ that's 5.1.



In hi-def, they ran a classical music show in Dolby Digital 5.1, called "Keeping the Score," with Michael Tilson Thomas conducting the San Francisco Symphony in music by Copland and Stravinsky. The first time they ran the show (months ago), the sound and picture were outstanding, as were the performances. However, last month they ran it twice and the sound was screwed up both times (at least, as transmitted via TWC). The volume level was extremely low and I think one of the front channels was out of phase--I don't know _what_ exactly was wrong, but the sound was extremely diffuse and there was a lot of echo in the signal that shouldn't have been there. The second time that this happened, I attempted to call the station (this was during the evening). I got a voice menu that had me key in an extension number for Technical Operations, at which time I got a machine-voice saying that the number was incorrect.

....just the kind of thing that makes me want to donate money to WVIZ


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However, last month they ran it twice and the sound was screwed up both times (at least, *as transmitted via TWC*).



Which is, of course, the only way you can get WVIZ-DT, unless A) you've got a big, honkin' antenna or B) you live somewhere on Brookpark Road in Parma.











I also wonder how quickly TWC will actually add 45/49's HD feed, considering it's identical to WVIZ-DT's PBS HD feed on 710. But as I mentioned to Don Freeman above, they've had it on the new TWC channel lineup card for the old Adelphia systems since day one.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Hi everybody in the Cleveland local... I'm moving up there from the Dayton area and was wondering a few things. I'm moving to Bedford, which is in the Beachwood service area.


I really don't watch a lot of tv, or most of it is on the major networks, so I'm wondering what channels are broadcast "in the clear" for my QAM tuner if I would get the cheap basic cable package?


I have a 10 db antenna, and am less then 8 miles from the 4 major network towers, so I should be good with at least those four. Of course I'll be getting roadrunner for internet, but if there's no other good channels in the clear (ex, in dayton I got TNT-HD and DSC-HD), then I don't see the point of cable. Thanks in advance.


----------



## JJkizak

Digital strong: 3.1,3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 55.1, 55.2, 55.3, 61.1.

Digital weaker: 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5, 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, 67.1

Digital really weak: 25.1?

Analog: 3, 5, 8, 19, 23, 25, 35, 43, 49, 55, 61.

Analog maybe's: 17, 32, 45, 53, 65, 67.

Sometimes Analog: 11, 13.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

It seems to me that the volume levels for most of the "concert" shows I watch in HD are always extremely low. I've recorded a couple of classic rock performers on MOJO and HDnet and I have to crank my 100w per channel Sony amp to almost full blast to get decent sound volume. Let's face it if it's a rock show you want it loud. Get a DVD of any of these shows and I'll bet I don't crank it past 40 tops (limit is 75).


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Digital strong: 3.1,3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 55.1, 55.2, 55.3, 61.1.
> 
> Digital weaker: 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5, 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, 67.1
> 
> Digital really weak: 25.1?
> 
> Analog: 3, 5, 8, 19, 23, 25, 35, 43, 49, 55, 61.
> 
> Analog maybe's: 17, 32, 45, 53, 65, 67.
> 
> Sometimes Analog: 11, 13.
> 
> JJK



If your post is in response to Lightning Guy's request, he was asking for QAM channels, not OTA... or am I missing something?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everybody in the Cleveland local... I'm moving up there from the Dayton area and was wondering a few things. I'm moving to Bedford, which is in the Beachwood service area.
> 
> 
> I really don't watch a lot of tv, or most of it is on the major networks, so I'm wondering what channels are broadcast "in the clear" for my QAM tuner if I would get the cheap basic cable package?



The off-air local DTVs are in clear-qam as well as Discovery-HD.


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you for reminding me that although this forum is focused on Cleveland it certainly includes viewers in the Valley. Yes, WNEO, broadcasting from our antenna west of Salem, covers the entire Mahoning Valley. TV viewers there can see our PBS 45 & 49 HD programming 24/7 now, too on 45.1.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



I know this is the Cleveland fourm but since you are here I will post it here. I have a question about W58AM CH 58 (ch 45) and its digital repeater on ch 44. I noticed and in addition to hearing that ch 58 was taken off the air and will be replaced on digital ch 44? Is there a set date for ch 44 digital repeater to sign on and what will the power and coverage area be?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems to me that the volume levels for most of the "concert" shows I watch in HD are always extremely low.



In the case of the classical music broadcast that it mentioned, it wasn't just the music, but it was also the PBS announcements and the interview with the conductor that were extremely soft. And there was definitely something wrong with the sound transmission, not just a low overall volume level.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everybody in the Cleveland local... I'm moving up there from the Dayton area and was wondering a few things. I'm moving to Bedford, which is in the Beachwood service area.
> 
> 
> I really don't watch a lot of tv, or most of it is on the major networks, so I'm wondering what channels are broadcast "in the clear" for my QAM tuner if I would get the cheap basic cable package?
> 
> 
> I have a 10 db antenna, and am less then 8 miles from the 4 major network towers, so I should be good with at least those four. Of course I'll be getting roadrunner for internet, but if there's no other good channels in the clear (ex, in dayton I got TNT-HD and DSC-HD), then I don't see the point of cable. Thanks in advance.



You can't count on cable feeds staying "free", especially if you only sub to the "cheap basic cable package". When you get the "cheap" basic cable feed the cable company puts in filters that block the frequencies where the digital cable signals reside.


QAM is for cable feeds only. What you want is ATSC, which is the way over the air digital signals are transmitted. Virtually every HDTV with a built-in tuner can do both. From where you will be moving, all the Cleveland and possibly Akron signals should come in fine (WVIZ-DT @ 1 kilowatt being the lone exception).


----------



## HD MM

Anyone have a current list of HD channels available to Time Warner NE? I just purchased a projector for the basement and I am thinking about going with cable, (currently have E* upstairs) due to my projector not having an OTA tuner for HD locals and we all know E* doesn't carry locals in Cleveland yet, so I am in a bit of a dilemma.


Also, what is the monthly price for the HD-Tier service? No need for a DVR or premium channels.


Here is a list of what I came up with so far. I think this list is a bit outdated as INHD/INHD2 have merged and is now Mojo. Also, I don't see any RSN's, (STO-HD and FSN-HD) on this list either. Are they available on TW? Am I missing any?


380 HBO East HD

381 HBO West HD

390 Showtime East HD

391 Showtime West HD

508 WJW Fox 8 Cleveland

521 WKYC NBC 3 Cleveland

541 WOIO CBS 19 Cleveland

544 WUAB UPN 43 Cleveland

547 TNT in HD

549 WEAO/WNEO PBS 45/49 Akron/Kent

551 WEWS ABC 5 Cleveland

554 Discovery HD Theater

555 INHD

556 INHD 2

557 HDNet

558 HDNet Movies

559 ESPN HD

1058 HDTV Movies On Demand


----------



## hookbill

Unfortunately TW does not feel the need or importance of updating it's on line, or for that matter even there brocheres that are at their offices. However this will give you an idea of what is available in your area. You can subtract INHD2 and INHD, add MOJO and Universal. Prices should be accurate, however in my area they have Road Runner at 45.95 and in fact it's only 39.95. But then again apparently TW feels little real need to communicate this information to it's current or prospective viewers.










One other thing: If you're planning on getting a DVR or even an HD box last I heard there is a waiting period. Apparently they are getting new equipment so unless one is available you may have to wait, though that may have changed.


In either case if you do want a DVR I'd go with the TiVo S3.







But if you ever read any of my post that shouldn't surprise you.


No RSN's either.


----------



## mnowlin

Went over and hooked up my sister-in-law's new 32" Sylvania HDTV today. While watching it for a bit, I had a thought - "my technologically-backwards sister-in-law has an HDTV, and I don't?!?!?!" (I'm a major geek.) Left her house and headed to Best Buy....


After thinking about it for a few years, reading lots of reviews and forums (especially this one), I broke down and purchased a Panasonic 50" TH-50PX75U plasma tonight. (I was looking at a 42", and my wife surprisingly suggested the 50"!







) This thing looks monstrous in our relatively small living room...


Assembled the new TV stand, moved a bunch of furniture around (old TV to the bedroom, bedroom TV to the junk pile), and finally got the plasma running at 2:00 AM. Of course, there's no HD programming this time of day, so I have to wait until tomorrow to be amazed... Aieee!!!


Now the battle begins - getting TWC to upgrade my DVR to an HD box. From what I've read, this should be interesting....


Thanks to everyone on the forum for their posts - gave me lots of useful information, plus enough ammunition to convince my wife that it was time to upgrade!


mike


----------



## hookbill

Welcome to the world of HD. If you upgrade your subscription to the higher hd tier you will get among others, MOJO, HDnet, and HDnet Movies which is HD even at 2:00 am.










As far as HD DVR's what I think is happening is that Scientific Atlanta has stopped production on the SA 8300 so the only DVR's TW has are the ones that are currently still circulating. Beginning today the new law takes effect that says cable companies must provide DVR's with cable cards and I don't know if SA has released the SA 9000 yet. That's why there has been a shortage of DVR's and HD boxes.


By all means try and get a cable DVR and see if you like it. Many people report they did not experience the problems I had with my SA 8300. However if you don't want to wait you may want to look at the TiVo S3. TiVo flat on out is a better DVR, however with SDV probably comeing next year that might limit your choices. TiVo was offering a 200.00 rebate coupon but I don't know if that's still available. I would suggest if you think in that direction purchasing from Costco since they offer a lifetime warranty and have reasonable prices.


Whatever you decide to do, enjoy!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately TW does not feel the need or importance of updating it's on line, or for that matter even there brocheres that are at their offices. However this will give you an idea of what is available in your area. You can subtract INHD2 and INHD, add MOJO and Universal. Prices should be accurate, however in my area they have Road Runner at 45.95 and in fact it's only 39.95. But then again apparently TW feels little real need to communicate this information to it's current or prospective viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One other thing: If you're planning on getting a DVR or even an HD box last I heard there is a waiting period. Apparently they are getting new equipment so unless one is available you may have to wait, though that may have changed.
> 
> 
> In either case if you do want a DVR I'd go with the TiVo S3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if you ever read any of my post that shouldn't surprise you.
> 
> 
> No RSN's either.



Thanks Hook. That was a big help. I don't know why there is a such a big secret to the availability of TW's packages and prices. I guess they are hoping people call in to inquire then get "hooked" by TW's sales people. It seems like an outdated way of doing things.


One more thing. I didn't see pricing on the HD Tier. I assume there is an upcharge for that, but you have to first seclect a regular package first? Also, is that pricing based on service to 1 TV? What is the upcharge for each additional TV. (I have 2 HD TV's and 1 SD)


BTW, Whatever happened to a-la-cart? Is that idea dead? If it was up to me I would just pay to get all HD, STO and FSN........ Oh, and MSNBC for the wife


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Hook. That was a big help. I don't know why there is a such a big secret to the availability of TW's packages and prices. I guess they are hoping people call in to inquire then get "hooked" by TW's sales people. It seems like an outdated way of doing things.
> 
> 
> One more thing. I didn't see pricing on the HD Tier. I assume there is an upcharge for that, but you have to first seclect a regular package first? Also, is that pricing based on service to 1 TV? What is the upcharge for each additional TV. (I have 2 HD TV's and 1 SD)
> 
> 
> BTW, Whatever happened to a-la-cart? Is that idea dead? If it was up to me I would just pay to get all HD, STO and FSN........ Oh, and MSNBC for the wife



The price for the higher tier is 5 bucks. No additional charge per set. That is excluding addtional boxes/DVR's/cable cards etc.










Nothing is free my friend!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By all means try and get a cable DVR and see if you like it. Many people report they did not experience the problems I had with my SA 8300. However if you don't want to wait you may want to look at the TiVo S3. TiVo flat on out is a better DVR, however with SDV probably comeing next year that might limit your choices. TiVo was offering a 200.00 rebate coupon but I don't know if that's still available. I would suggest if you think in that direction purchasing from Costco since they offer a lifetime warranty and have reasonable prices.
> 
> 
> Whatever you decide to do, enjoy!



Thanks... I usually don't watch a lot of golf, but I couldn't turn it off today - pretty impressive in HD. I'm quite sure the new set was money well-spent.


I'm going to call TWC tomorrow and request an SA8300-HD - we'll see what happens.


I looked at the TiVo several years ago, but didn't like it at the time for several reasons. I was just reading about the S3, and it seems they've addressed all the big issues I can think of. Might be an option if TWC gives me the run-around.


I've also been playing with MythTV for quite a while. The server box has an analog tuner w/hardware MPEG encoding, plus a pair of digital SD/HD receiver cards. Just need to build a small frontend box that isn't too ugly for the living room.


So many options, so little time...


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are no differences in the programming between 45.1 and 49.1 or 45.2 and 49.2. There are many programming options available to us in the future because of digital broadcasting. Its too early to tell which path we'll choose.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Is anyone else having trouble receiving 49.2?


I am getting 49.1 in HD rock solid. But 49.2 just gives me a blank screen. I've tried through my Samsung's TV tuner and my DirecTV receiver. I was getting it the other day, but not anymore.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having trouble receiving 49.2?
> 
> 
> I am getting 49.1 in HD rock solid. But 49.2 just gives me a blank screen. I've tried through my Samsung's TV tuner and my DirecTV receiver. I was getting it the other day, but not anymore.



Same results here, blank screen on 49.2


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same results here, blank screen on 49.2



Ok, good to know it's not my hardware. I like to record Curious George for my kids off of 49.2, but this morning's recording was blank. The WEAO feed from DirecTV isn't as clear as the OTA 49.2. Hopefully WEAO can get this fixed quick.


Thanks!


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same results here, blank screen on 49.2



I've noticed the same thing here in North Canton. In fact, 49.1 was showing different programming OTA than I was receiving from WNEO on my Time Warner Cable system. I thought Don Freeman said that 49.1 was to be HD programming and 49.2 was supposed to be the same show in SD. So far that has not been the case.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've noticed the same thing here in North Canton. In fact, 49.1 was showing different programming OTA than I was receiving from WNEO on my Time Warner Cable system. I thought Don Freeman said that 49.1 was to be HD programming and 49.2 was supposed to be the same show in SD. So far that has not been the case.



Unlike everyone else, PBS HD is a totally different schedule from the SD channel.

If I can paraphrase what Don said basically there may be times when the two channels are the same but for the most part they are going to have different schedules.


BTW: I too had a blank screen for 49.2. Thanks to all for confirming it's not just my equipment.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have a current list of HD channels available to Time Warner NE? I just purchased a projector for the basement and I am thinking about going with cable, (currently have E* upstairs) due to my projector not having an OTA tuner for HD locals and we all know E* doesn't carry locals in Cleveland yet, so I am in a bit of a dilemma.
> 
> 
> Also, what is the monthly price for the HD-Tier service? No need for a DVR or premium channels.
> 
> 
> Here is a list of what I came up with so far. I think this list is a bit outdated as INHD/INHD2 have merged and is now Mojo. Also, I don't see any RSN's, (STO-HD and FSN-HD) on this list either. Are they available on TW? Am I missing any?
> 
> 
> 380 HBO East HD
> 
> 381 HBO West HD
> 
> 390 Showtime East HD
> 
> 391 Showtime West HD
> 
> 508 WJW Fox 8 Cleveland
> 
> 521 WKYC NBC 3 Cleveland
> 
> 541 WOIO CBS 19 Cleveland
> 
> 544 WUAB UPN 43 Cleveland
> 
> 547 TNT in HD
> 
> 549 WEAO/WNEO PBS 45/49 Akron/Kent
> 
> 551 WEWS ABC 5 Cleveland
> 
> 554 Discovery HD Theater
> 
> 555 INHD
> 
> 556 INHD 2
> 
> 557 HDNet
> 
> 558 HDNet Movies
> 
> 559 ESPN HD
> 
> 1058 HDTV Movies On Demand



Don't be so quick to dump E* over the HD locals! From Lyndhurst you should be able to get the locals in HD OTA using an E* box (not just the DVR but the non-dvr as well). That's what I use and it's great. Going OTA is better in that there is no added compression to the digital signals.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unlike everyone else, PBS HD is a totally different schedule from the SD channel.
> 
> If I can paraphrase what Don said basically there may be times when the two channels are the same but for the most part they are going to have different schedules.
> 
> 
> BTW: I too had a blank screen for 49.2. Thanks to all for confirming it's not just my equipment.



I talked to 45/49. The converter that mux's the two signals (HD and SD rebroadcast of NTSC) died on Friday. The HD is a direct feed from PBS. Parts are due today. 49.1 will be HD and 49.2 will be the SD rebroadcast of NTSC signal. The new converter/encoder is due this fall. Remember that DTV is being designed on the air... we are the beta testers.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't be so quick to dump E* over the HD locals! From Lyndhurst you should be able to get the locals in HD OTA using an E* box (not just the DVR but the non-dvr as well). That's what I use and it's great. Going OTA is better in that there is no added compression to the digital signals.



I'm not dumping E*. I get OTA just fine upstairs on the plasma. However, I was looking for a good alternative to get the HD locals in the basement on the new projector. The walls are already insulated and prewired with one cable input. Running another cable in the wall for OTA would be a nightmare.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not dumping E*. I get OTA just fine upstairs on the plasma. However, I was looking for a good alternative to get the HD locals in the basement on the new projector. The walls are already insulated and prewired with one cable input. Running another cable in the wall for OTA would be a nightmare.



Run it through the heating duct.


----------



## HD MM

Isn't that against code and a tad unsafe?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Run it through the heating duct.



This is exactly what I did to get coax cables for digital receivers to the bedroom. I had to use long pvc pipe taped together to push it thru but it finally worked.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Isn't that against code and a tad unsafe?



Code?... I'm not sure. Probably is against code for new construction, but you wouldn't need to do that with new construction. As far as in an exsisting house, let's say you had a fire claim on your insurance. I don't think your claim would be denied if you had a coax cable running through the heating duct. If you have an older house (20 yrs +), you wouldn't believe how many things are not up to todays codes.










Unsafe?... not at all. Perfectly safe, unless you're going to keep you thermostat set at 120 degrees.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not dumping E*. I get OTA just fine upstairs on the plasma. However, I was looking for a good alternative to get the HD locals in the basement on the new projector. The walls are already insulated and prewired with one cable input. Running another cable in the wall for OTA would be a nightmare.



What I use is a diplexer to combine the OTA antenna with the satellite dish. It even works with E*'s DPP separator (as long as the separator is used after the diplexer).


----------



## craigv

Has anyone on the former Adelphia systems checked out the HD Clip on TNT on Demand? It does a lot of pixelating for me and the sound does not work...


----------



## TLaz

WEAO-DT 49.1 went down for me today joining 49.2 with a blank screen. Is it my equipment or theirs with the problem?


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WEAO-DT 49.1 went down for me today joining 49.2 with a blank screen. Is it my equipment or theirs with the problem?



It's down here too. Hopefully, they are just making the repairs that were talked about earlier today.


----------



## Stan Austin

Hi Group--- I'm new to this group. I live in Lakewood. I am considering buying an HDTV stick for my computer. Here's the link for an explanation.

The product name is Pinacle HDTV Stick on the Best Buy web site for a description.

I wonder if any of you had any thoughts on it, particularly the availability of HD stations.

Thanks, Stan Austin


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm going to call TWC tomorrow and request an SA8300-HD - we'll see what happens.



Well, I called today and was on hold for 11 minutes. Bypassed the "call me back" option which said the estimated time was between 27-34 minutes - worked to my advantage.


The nice lady took my account information and request, went away for a minute or so, then came back and told me they didn't have any HD DVRs available in my area at this time, but were expecting some in a few weeks. (She couldn't give me anything more accurate than that.) Asked if I wanted to be put on the waiting list - of course, I said yes. (Thought about some sarcastic answer, but didn't give such.)


As predicted, I get to wait.... Grrr... I might call tomorrow and see if I can get a non-DVR HD box for now.


As a side note - when driving home from work, I passed a billboard for TWC. "HD made EZ". I had to laugh.....


mike


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I called today and was on hold for 11 minutes. Bypassed the "call me back" option which said the estimated time was between 27-34 minutes - worked to my advantage.
> 
> 
> The nice lady took my account information and request, went away for a minute or so, then came back and told me they didn't have any HD DVRs available in my area at this time, but were expecting some in a few weeks. (She couldn't give me anything more accurate than that.) Asked if I wanted to be put on the waiting list - of course, I said yes. (Thought about some sarcastic answer, but didn't give such.)
> 
> 
> As predicted, I get to wait.... Grrr... I might call tomorrow and see if I can get a non-DVR HD box for now.
> 
> 
> As a side note - when driving home from work, I passed a billboard for TWC. "HD made EZ". I had to laugh.....
> 
> 
> mike




Well, at least you were prepared. I gotta tell you Mike that thing IMHO is a pos. Here's my problems with it:


It frequently did only partial recordings.


When set to "record all" if a week went by without a program airing it would sometimes just "drop" the show.


I had to watch it like a hawk every day to make sure it just recorded what I wanted it to record.


When I added eSATA, a Maxtor 500 which was made specifically for the SA 8300 pixelation and sound drop offs increased.


Pixelation and sound drop offs were bad anyway. I kind of thought that was just the way it was - until I got my S3.


Sometimes it just didn't record for lord knows what reasons.


Inability to see hidden conflicts. While it can recognize some types of conflicts it doesn't recognize all. Result: You have 3 shows scheduled and nothing gets recorded.


Horrible search feature. If you don't know what day your program is showing it is useless.


Two good points: PIP which allows you to bring up your channel guide and continue to watch your recording. Also it has a disk meter which shows you how much disk space you've used.


However if you put a eSATA on to the S3 (mines just 500gb) you get 96 HD hours and 997 SD hours - who needs a disk meter? Anyway you'd be able to tell if you are running out of disk space because your "deleted" folder would start dropping rapidly.


The S3 is now more affordable and I believe they are still offering a 200.00 rebate.


Just something to think about.


----------



## paule123

I notice on my DirecTV HR20, there is incorrect guide data for PBS 49 - It's showing 49.1 as the SD channel, 49.2 as the HD channel, and a 49.3 channel.


On my other OTA tuner, 49.1 is coming in fine in HD, but 49.2 is still a blank screen.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I notice on my DirecTV HR20, there is incorrect guide data for PBS 49 - It's showing 49.1 as the SD channel, 49.2 as the HD channel, and a 49.3 channel.
> 
> 
> On my other OTA tuner, 49.1 is coming in fine in HD, but 49.2 is still a blank screen.



They had an equipment failure and are sending PBS HD direct (45.1 & 49.1)... cannot add in the 45.2 or 49.2 feed.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stan Austin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Group--- I'm new to this group. I live in Lakewood. I am considering buying an HDTV stick for my computer. Here's the link for an explanation.
> 
> The product name is Pinacle HDTV Stick on the Best Buy web site for a description.
> 
> I wonder if any of you had any thoughts on it, particularly the availability of HD stations.
> 
> Thanks, Stan Austin



Hi Stan, I too live in Lakewood (near the park). Any over the air reception is tough because of reflections off the tall building and the slope of the hill near I-480. We went to cable decades ago and never looked back.


----------



## Inundated

HD MM - on your list above, it looks like you got the Akron/Canton TWC system.


Lyndhurst would be the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, which has a different channel lineup...for one, the HD channels are in the 700s instead of the 500s.


Similar offerings, tho.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HD MM - on your list above, it looks like you got the Akron/Canton TWC system.
> 
> 
> Lyndhurst would be the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, which has a different channel lineup...for one, the HD channels are in the 700s instead of the 500s.
> 
> 
> Similar offerings, tho.




Ummmm...yes...that's why I gave him a direct link to the guide in his area next thread down. You smeaker.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ummmm...yes...that's why I gave him a direct link to the guide in his area next thread down. You smeaker.



I saw that message, but didn't realize what it was linking since you embedded the link in the word "this".


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, at least you were prepared. I gotta tell you Mike that thing IMHO is a pos. Here's my problems with it:
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> Just something to think about.



Interesting... I've had the SD SA8300 for a few years, and have been relatively happy with it. It has a few annoying quirks, and I agree that the search feature sucks, but I haven't yet had the urge to attack it with a stun gun...


However, I can see how the HD version could be an entirely different beast. Aside from a similar appearance and model number, the guts are likely entirely different. Example: disk meter? Don't have it on mine, unless you go to channel 611 and compare available space vs. total space in GB. Not exactly user-friendly.


I have noticed that the SD box is very picky about signal quality - other DTV receivers worked nicely, while the TWC boxes choked. It took a LONG time (many visits from TWC techs over about two years) to work out the kinks. I was running into intermittent, but significant, pixelation problems on the DVR and the other digital cable box. I finally had a tech out here that really knew his stuff - he spent about three hours measuring signal levels, swapping out splitters and cables, working up on the pole, etc. Since then, the whole thing has worked nicely. (I have the patience of Jobe at times... It's a flaw...)


I'm going to look more into the TiVo option - I'll give TWC a fair shot, but I define "a few weeks" as 3-4 weeks. If they can't deliver a usable HD DVR by then, it's time to look elsewhere.


If only there was a CableCard solution that worked with MythTV....


mike


----------



## paule123

For those of you who are interested, there's a couple ATT Wireless stores demoing live U-Verse service.

https://uma.att.com/general/885-AMSS-X-X-IFRAME.html 


AT&T Wireless - Mayfield

6294 Mayfield Rd.

Mayfield Heights, OH


AT&T Wireless - Mentor

7701 Mentor Av.

Mentor, OH


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those of you who are interested, there's a couple ATT Wireless stores demoing live U-Verse service.
> 
> https://uma.att.com/general/885-AMSS-X-X-IFRAME.html
> 
> 
> AT&T Wireless - Mayfield
> 
> 6294 Mayfield Rd.
> 
> Mayfield Heights, OH
> 
> 
> AT&T Wireless - Mentor
> 
> 7701 Mentor Av.
> 
> Mentor, OH




It's not in my area yet but if it does get here I might be interested IF it works with the S3. TiVo has not come out and said anything about it yet.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not in my area yet but if it does get here I might be interested IF it works with the S3. TiVo has not come out and said anything about it yet.



I wouldn't be in a hurry. It currently supports only downloading/recording on one HD station at a time. Believe it's suppose to be upgraded to two at a time after the first of the year. Plus, there are lots of quality problems. You can read about them on the following forum:
http://www.uverseusers.com/component..._smf/Itemid,2/


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not in my area yet but if it does get here I might be interested IF it works with the S3. TiVo has not come out and said anything about it yet.



I don't see how the S3 could ever work with U-Verse. U-Verse is MPEG4 video delivered over an IP network. There's no QAM, no CableCards. All proprietary stuff. Also consider Microsoft is ATT's partner on the set top box software, and Motorola is making the boxes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't see how the S3 could ever work with U-Verse. U-Verse is MPEG4 video delivered over an IP network. There's no QAM, no CableCards. All proprietary stuff. Also consider Microsoft is ATT's partner on the set top box software, and Motorola is making the boxes.



So, it probably requires that you use AT&T's broadband. First, I don't have any phone service (I use Vonage) and second I don't like broadband, ymmv.


I've heard comments about the quality of their HD and from what I understand it's not too good.


Maybe with the new law Verizon can move in here? Or do you need phone service from them as well?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe with the new law Verizon can move in here? Or do you need phone service from them as well?



I'm not sure how the new law shakes out, but the phone companies doing this service are generally only doing it where they are the incumbent phone company. I presume it's because there's at least some existing infrastructure.


I'd like to see Verizon doing FIOS here, but it'll probably only happen (if it even does) in areas like parts of Medina County and nearby (Montrose) where they're the incumbent provider (ex-GTE). I say "if it even does" because I don't know if they intend to put in FIOS in rural-ish areas where they don't have a big metro area to feed from, with Cleveland/Akron mostly being AT&T territory.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, it probably requires that you use AT&T's broadband. First, I don't have any phone service (I use Vonage) and second I don't like broadband, ymmv.
> 
> 
> I've heard comments about the quality of their HD and from what I understand it's not too good.
> 
> 
> Maybe with the new law Verizon can move in here? Or do you need phone service from them as well?



ATT does not require that you use their broadband internet. But in reality they install a 25Mbps DSL pipe to your house to feed the video. If you opt for the internet, that is an additional charge and will take up to 6Mbps of that pipe.


The goofy thing is ATT is not offering VOIP as part of the U-Verse package yet. Even though ATT owns CallVantage VOIP. One hand doesn't talk to the other I guess.


Like Indundated says, you'll never see Verizon FIOS here. That's all dependent on who your Baby Bell old fashioned phone company is. All the new laws in the world can't change who owns the installed copper infrastructure. Everybody in Illinois, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio who had Ameritech phone service ain't gonna get FIOS, ever.


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They had an equipment failure and are sending PBS HD direct (45.1 & 49.1)... cannot add in the 45.2 or 49.2 feed.



Clevemkt is correct. We are having problems with our digital encoder since we signed on with HD late last month. That is why we are only able to broadcast 45.1 and 49.1. We have now bypassed the encoder while we work with the manufacturer to correct the technical limitations the unit has. That is why there is no bug in the lower right hand corner of the HD signal.

Adding to our engineers stress are continual power outages at the Channel 45 Salem site. We are now limited to 25% power on our Channel 45 analog signal while we try to replace older elements in the transmitter.

There have also been comments in this forum about our legal IDs. Our FCC mandated IDs are not correct. We are reediting all of our work now to add the DT designation. Those IDs will begin appearing this month.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Clevemkt is correct. We are having problems with our digital encoder since we signed on with HD late last month. That is why we are only able to broadcast 45.1 and 49.1. We have now bypassed the encoder while we work with the manufacturer to correct the technical limitations the unit has. That is why there is no bug in the lower right hand corner of the HD signal.
> 
> Adding to our engineers stress are continual power outages at the Channel 45 Salem site. We are now limited to 25% power on our Channel 45 analog signal while we try to replace older elements in the transmitter.
> 
> There have also been comments in this forum about our legal IDs. Our FCC mandated IDs are not correct. We are reediting all of our work now to add the DT designation. Those IDs will begin appearing this month.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



When will the guide on Direct Tv be updated for the proper shows?

It is still showing outdated info

Thanks


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Clevemkt is correct. We are having problems with our digital encoder since we signed on with HD late last month. That is why we are only able to broadcast 45.1 and 49.1. We have now bypassed the encoder while we work with the manufacturer to correct the technical limitations the unit has. That is why there is no bug in the lower right hand corner of the HD signal.
> 
> Adding to our engineers stress are continual power outages at the Channel 45 Salem site. We are now limited to 25% power on our Channel 45 analog signal while we try to replace older elements in the transmitter.
> 
> There have also been comments in this forum about our legal IDs. Our FCC mandated IDs are not correct. We are reediting all of our work now to add the DT designation. Those IDs will begin appearing this month.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Regardless, the broadcast of the Capitol Fourth on Wednesday night in HD was simply stunning as is the other PBS HD programming I'm now getting OTA. Kudos to 45/49.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There have also been comments in this forum about our legal IDs. Our FCC mandated IDs are not correct. We are reediting all of our work now to add the DT designation. Those IDs will begin appearing this month.



Wow, talk about service. Can you send a pizza out to Akron before 11 PM?











Thanks again, Don, for keeping us up to date. I wish all the local TVs did that (like, oh, I don't know, a certain Cleveland station that runs your network - they did have an engineer here long ago).


----------



## burgher

FYI-Direct TV's Direct10 Satellite has successfully launched from Pad 39 in Kazakhstan. Misson accomplished by ILS engineers. How quickly will cable move to catch D*'s surge toward major HD content ? Rollout of new channels should occur in September.

www.ilslaunch.com


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI-Direct TV's Direct10 Satellite has successfully launched from Pad 39 in Kazakhstan.



Kazakhstan!? Madone! I wonder if Borat was there for the launch!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Clevemkt is correct. We are having problems with our digital encoder since we signed on with HD late last month. That is why we are only able to broadcast 45.1 and 49.1. We have now bypassed the encoder while we work with the manufacturer to correct the technical limitations the unit has. That is why there is no bug in the lower right hand corner of the HD signal.
> 
> Adding to our engineers stress are continual power outages at the Channel 45 Salem site. We are now limited to 25% power on our Channel 45 analog signal while we try to replace older elements in the transmitter.
> 
> There have also been comments in this forum about our legal IDs. Our FCC mandated IDs are not correct. We are reediting all of our work now to add the DT designation. Those IDs will begin appearing this month.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO




Don, just want to send out a thank you for taking time during yourr busy day to update us on what's happening with your station. We have one or two other chief's that keep us informed as well and we really appreciate getting the word from "the horses mouth" so to speak. Again thanks!


----------



## Lighting Guy

Ok so I recently moved to Bedford, not far from the towers. I can pretty much get or figure out how to get all the main network stations I want with my crappy 10db indoor antenna, but what I cannot get, is WKYC's DT station. I can get their analog station, although its pretty fuzzy, its watchable and the audios fine. But I get NO signal on their DT station (3.1). I'm confused since they are both VHF, less than 7 miles away, and yet I can get 67 (SAH) which is almost 23 miles away and VHF. Any ideas?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any ideas?



Ah, search this thread for "WKYC" and you'll get a lot of feedback.










But, in a nutshell - WKYC-DT is in digital TV hell, aka RF channel 2. It's even worse than their analog channel.


The problem? Low-VHF digitals are notoriously hard to pick up. Not only is the antenna size needed a factor (most cheap whip antennas aren't nearly long enough in "wingspan" VHF 2 needs), but noise is an even bigger factor.


Those "sparklies" you're seeing on analog 3? They're worse on 2, and digitally, that means there's enough electrical interference to spike the signal.


There are folks getting WKYC-DT OTA here, but they're probably A) closer to Parma and B) using a decent antenna. Anything else is a crapshoot. (Perhaps those not fitting A and B getting WKYC-DT have lower interference. Over a holiday period a year or two back, *I* was able to wring out WKYC-DT...my running theory was that a source of electrical noise wasn't operating due to a holiday.)


The good, long-term news, is that this will likely go away after the analog-to-digital transition in 2009. WKYC has filed to use RF channel 17 after the transition, which is the current analog home of WDLI/Canton (TBN religious).


WDLI will vacate 17 and stay on its own current digital channel, 39, making the WKYC move possible in 2009. Until then? Good luck getting it OTA...


----------



## rlb

I'm not disagreeing with anything said about digital 3-1.


However, I live in extreme south North Royalton (about 1/2 mile north of the Summit County line and 6 miles south of the Parma antenna farm), use a roof top antenna, and get digital 3-1 at "92" strength on my HD Tivo. It's signal is as strong, and the picture basically as good, as any other of the OTA digital signals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not disagreeing with anything said about digital 3-1.
> 
> 
> However, I live in extreme south North Royalton (about 1/2 mile north of the Summit County line and 6 miles south of the Parma antenna farm), use a roof top antenna, and get digital 3-1 at "92" strength on my HD Tivo. It's signal is as strong, and the picture basically as good, as any other of the OTA digital signals.




When you say "HD TiVo" I assume you mean the S3, correct? Many people have reported that the S3's OTA tuner is much better at picking up signals then other STB's. I unfortunately have not experienced that but never the less this is what I've seen many say.


----------



## JJkizak

I really don't have any problem with 3.1 either as my antenna is both UHF/VHF. Signal strength is 98 and right now it has the sharpest HD picture of any OTA channel. (1080P set) One of my pet peeves is 5.1 showing 2.35 x 1 movies in zoomed up 16 x 9 format. That really torques my jaws. My other pet peeve is 8.1 local news doing something to screw up resolution and noise performance. The national programs are just fine. I don't watch 5.1 news because they are using the "edge squeegy distortion" method of making 4 x 3 looking like 16 x 9. It is just awful. 19.1 doesn't have any HD news yet. I do have a lock problem on PBS 49.1 with signal strength around 40 to 78 and I suspect it is intermod or very quick signal fades which the meter doesn't record. 55.1 and 43.1 are fine. 67.1 is a bit intermittant also. What is a wonderment is all of the analog channels don't fade or drop out, they just hang in there big time even if they are weak. Don't know why I get those dropouts as in my mind I should not get a drop out until the signal actually drops out. There are times when the signal is a steady 20 and there are no dropouts or lockouts.

JJK


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ah, search this thread for "WKYC" and you'll get a lot of feedback.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, in a nutshell - WKYC-DT is in digital TV hell, aka RF channel 2. It's even worse than their analog channel.
> 
> 
> The problem? Low-VHF digitals are notoriously hard to pick up. Not only is the antenna size needed a factor (most cheap whip antennas aren't nearly long enough in "wingspan" VHF 2 needs), but noise is an even bigger factor.
> 
> 
> Those "sparklies" you're seeing on analog 3? They're worse on 2, and digitally, that means there's enough electrical interference to spike the signal.
> 
> 
> There are folks getting WKYC-DT OTA here, but they're probably A) closer to Parma and B) using a decent antenna. Anything else is a crapshoot. (Perhaps those not fitting A and B getting WKYC-DT have lower interference. Over a holiday period a year or two back, *I* was able to wring out WKYC-DT...my running theory was that a source of electrical noise wasn't operating due to a holiday.)
> 
> 
> The good, long-term news, is that this will likely go away after the analog-to-digital transition in 2009. WKYC has filed to use RF channel 17 after the transition, which is the current analog home of WDLI/Canton (TBN religious).
> 
> 
> WDLI will vacate 17 and stay on its own current digital channel, 39, making the WKYC move possible in 2009. Until then? Good luck getting it OTA...




Thanks for taking the time to explain it. Sad story though, guess I'll just look into getting TWC's basic cable so I can get the major networks via QAM. (If I can ever get TW to get out here). Thanks.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I'm out in Geauga county (but just over the border), and WKYC gives me a very solid signal. I have a basic VHF/UHF antenna on the roof, nothing fancy. In fact, I was getting a solid signal from WKYC even when the antenna was in the attic. I've struggled with some of the other channels, but not WKYC.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok so I recently moved to Bedford, not far from the towers. I can pretty much get or figure out how to get all the main network stations I want with my crappy 10db indoor antenna, but what I cannot get, is WKYC's DT station. I can get their analog station, although its pretty fuzzy, its watchable and the audios fine. But I get NO signal on their DT station (3.1). I'm confused since they are both VHF, less than 7 miles away, and yet I can get 67 (SAH) which is almost 23 miles away and VHF. Any ideas?



Tuning signals through the antenna is a bit of voodoo, there is no single recipe for every area. There could be interference (either physical or electronic) that only affects one channel. A small antenna on one side of the house could get some channels better than a huge antenna on the other side. A channel from 30 miles away could come in better than one only a block away.


But here are some guidelines that worked in my experience. Get the largest antenna you can get and put it up as high as possible, attics are good even though they are indoors. Put an adjustable signal amplifier near the antenna and see if it improves the channels, usually it does if near enough to the antenna. Then have someone checking the signal strength of each channel as you turn and tilt the antenna, and adjust the amplifier. Tie it down in whatever position gets the most stations.


People have had luck with other techniques too (attenuating certain frequencies, amplifing UHF only, using analyzers, etc) but these should get you most of the way there. If there is one big positive for digitial channels OTA is that if they are in the 60%-70% "signal strength", they will look as good as 98%. So getting all channels at 75% is much better than getting some at 98% and some at 10%.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When you say "HD TiVo" I assume you mean the S3, correct? Many people have reported that the S3's OTA tuner is much better at picking up signals then other STB's. I unfortunately have not experienced that but never the less this is what I've seen many say.



No. I use Direct TV and the HR10-250 (HD Tivo) which also receives/processes OTA signals. The HR10 definitely doesn't have a reputation for having an excellent OTA tuner. The S3 is Tivo's newer cable DVR.


I'll soon be shifting to the HR-20 and be able to compare the OTA digital locals and Direct TV's MPEG4 versions. Supposedly, the HR-20 has a better OTA tuner than the HR10.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok so I recently moved to Bedford, not far from the towers. I can pretty much get or figure out how to get all the main network stations I want with my crappy 10db indoor antenna, but what I cannot get, is WKYC's DT station. I can get their analog station, although its pretty fuzzy, its watchable and the audios fine. But I get NO signal on their DT station (3.1). I'm confused since they are both VHF, less than 7 miles away, and yet I can get 67 (SAH) which is almost 23 miles away and VHF. Any ideas?



Welcome to the Greater Cleveland area!

I live right by the WKYC transmitter and use rabbit ears. I have to aim them just so before I can get a lock, and then if I move between the antenna and the transmitter I sometimes lose lock.


The most important thing to remember with indoor antennas is to place them by a window that faces the transmitter. Even here at "ground zero" I lose lock on just about every Cleveland station until I placed the antennas by a window. The reason is due to aluminum siding. And another thing - no screens on the windows! There should be nothing but glass between any indoor antenna and the transmitters.


Before I moved to Parma I thought all you'd need was a paper clip on the 300 ohm antenna terminals to get perfect TV. Boy was I wrong! At least I can see exactly where the signal is coming from!


BTW ch 67 (the former Shop-at-Home) is not VHF, it's digital signal is on ch 47.


----------



## HD MM

Great news for those who have E*. 8 new HD RSN's will be added Wednesday, including Cleveland's own STO-HD!!! Just in time for the second half of the Tribe's playoff bound season!









http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-net...wednesday.html


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The most important thing to remember with indoor antennas is to place them by a window that faces the transmitter. Even here at "ground zero" I lose lock on just about every Cleveland station until I placed the antennas by a window. The reason is due to aluminum siding. And another thing - no screens on the windows! There should be nothing but glass between any indoor antenna and the transmitters.



Way down in Northwest Akron (literally, I'm in the valley), I've found that the most critical part of antenna placement for WKYC was elevation. I have my indoor antenna in my attic. The antenna configuration was a work in progress, but I finally was able to get WKYC decently, though hardly perfectly, because I had to compromise in order to get WOIO too!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Way down in Northwest Akron (literally, I'm in the valley), I've found that the most critical part of antenna placement for WKYC was elevation. I have my indoor antenna in my attic. The antenna configuration was a work in progress, but I finally was able to get WKYC decently, though hardly perfectly, because I had to compromise in order to get WOIO too!



It should not be hard to aim an antenna at both WKYC and WOIO since they are next-door neighbors on the corner of Broadview and Ridgewood. For best results use a VHF only antenna, since the rest of the Cleveland locals (the digital versions) are UHF and a wee bit farther to the west.


__________________Ridgewood _____________

State/ WQHS WBNX WOIO WKYC /Broadview


WUAB


WEWS

__________________Pleasant Valley __________

State/ WJW



This is a crude attempt at showing you what you are aiming at!

After the transition is over WJW is planning on keeping ch 8 for digital.

Virtually all the rest are abandoning their analog channels. WKYC will be on a UHF channel, 17, once WDLI in Canton signs off their analog signal.

WOIO unfortunately wants to stay on 10







.


For now a VHF only antenna aimed at Broaview & Ridgewoood should give you both WKYC and WOIO. After the transition you might need to do a slight re-aim to catch WJW.


----------



## paule123

STO emailed me back and said they didn't know why ATT wasn't carrying STO-HD. (they do carry STO SD, however) I suppose ATT is having a problem adding it to the lineup or a business decision was made not to carry it yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO emailed me back and said they didn't know why ATT wasn't carrying STO-HD. (they do carry STO SD, however) I suppose ATT is having a problem adding it to the lineup or a business decision was made not to carry it yet.



Well from what I hear their HD is crap anyway, but it sure seems like a bad business decision.


----------



## brh-z2

Anyone notice the new channel in the timewarner lineup? It was at channel 777 and the call letters were HDSC. There was no lineup information nor were they broadcasting anything yet.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone notice the new channel in the timewarner lineup? It was at channel 777 and the call letters were HDSC. There was no lineup information nor were they broadcasting anything yet.



Yeah I seen it. Looks like it might be HD on demand.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It should not be hard to aim an antenna at both WKYC and WOIO since they are next-door neighbors on the corner of Broadview and Ridgewood. For best results use a VHF only antenna, since the rest of the Cleveland locals (the digital versions) are UHF and a wee bit farther to the west.



Aim isn't my issue, it's how I've got the bunny ears on my antenna. My understanding, and experience in trying to get these channels, is that you need your bunny ears flat out to catch WKYC at 2, meanwhile WOIO at 10 needs more angle to catch it. So, for me, it's a matter of angling the antenna ears at just the right angle to get both channels. My reception is decent in the valley... (which I believe is better than Inudated, who I believe is just up the hill from me and can't get WKYC OTA).


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Aim isn't my issue, it's how I've got the bunny ears on my antenna. My understanding, and experience in trying to get these channels, is that you need your bunny ears flat out to catch WKYC at 2, meanwhile WOIO at 10 needs more angle to catch it. So, for me, it's a matter of angling the antenna ears at just the right angle to get both channels. My reception is decent in the valley... (which I believe is better than Inudated, who I believe is just up the hill from me and can't get WKYC OTA).



You should be able to use two different antennas that satisfy both situations. Then using a standard cable splitter (in reverse) sum both signals together to get both channels. Due to interference this does not always work, but I tried this with success in several locations.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should be able to use two different antennas that satisfy both situations. Then using a standard cable splitter (in reverse) sum both signals together to get both channels. Due to interference this does not always work, but I tried this with success in several locations.



Unfortunately there are two issues.


1) It's about 49 bazillion degrees in my attic, which would make for an unpleasant experience


2) I'm not willing to disturb what works enough as it is just in case it doesn't work! I like have NBC and CBS is a must for football.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah I seen it. Looks like it might be HD on demand.



I'm thinking so too which is funny because I was just telling someone that it really stinks to not have an HD on demand. I turned to it last night by accident not knowing what it was, got the typical Time Warner logo like the regular on demand and then my box promptly rebooted! It's a confirmed on demand alright!







ha!


I wonder if it'll be a pay per movie or monthly service such as HBO on demand. I hope monthly but I'm guessing per movie.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately there are two issues.
> 
> 
> 1) It's about 49 bazillion degrees in my attic, which would make for an unpleasant experience
> 
> 
> 2) I'm not willing to disturb what works enough as it is just in case it doesn't work! I like have NBC and CBS is a must for football.



2) You may be able to add the second antenna to the cabling without moving the first antenna, depends on your setup.


1) I know what you mean, been there. I sweated for 3-4 hours of turning and spinning antennas "_how about now_?" before I was satisfied.


----------



## JJkizak

Attic heat can be eliminated with a simple ridge vent installation the full length or even just an 8 ft length. Temperatures used to hit 150F in mine until I installed the 10 ft ridge vent on a 30 ft roof length (no fans required) then the temperature never exceeded outside temp even on the hottest days. It was a real wonderment.


JJK


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attic heat can be eliminated with a simple ridge vent installation the full length or even just an 8 ft length. Temperatures used to hit 150F in mine until I installed the 10 ft ridge vent on a 30 ft roof length (no fans required) then the temperature never exceeded outside temp even on the hottest days. It was a real wonderment.
> 
> 
> JJK



I had one of those ridge vents. The second winter it was installed snow blew into the vent holes and melted causing water marks the length of the vent on my upstairs ceiling. I promptly plugged it (at 2 am).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had one of those ridge vents. The second winter it was installed snow blew into the vent holes and melted causing water marks the length of the vent on my upstairs ceiling. I promptly plugged it (at 2 am).




Then it wasn't installed properly. It shouldn't have done that.


I have 2 ridge vents and a screen vent on the side of one of my attics. Prevents mold as well as keeps the temperature moderate.


----------



## PBS4549




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When will the guide on Direct Tv be updated for the proper shows?
> 
> It is still showing outdated info
> 
> Thanks



Just a note that as of today (Thursday 7/12) we are back to broadcasting two digital signals per transmitter (45.1 and 45.2 along with 49.1 and 49.2) with the HD on channel 1 and a rebroadcast of our analog service on channel 2. Our compromise to get that up was to return to static PSIP. That means we are able to identify the channel but not provide any program information. We're working with the manufacturer of our encoder to see what we can do to resolve that problem.

Our original encoder unit is being repaired and when it is shipped back we'll be down for an hour or so to swap out their loaner.

As for the DirecTV program information, we've contacted the service that provided program info to them. Apparently there has been no change. Since no one in our office has DirecTV HD can you tell me what they are running? Is it the Create! channel info (i.e. how-to series rather than PBS documentaries and nature series). We'll keep calling until they get it right.


Don Freeman

Chief Operating Officer

WNEO/WEAO


----------



## HDTD

STO SD is re-airing an "STO Classic" from a WKYC broadcast. It is truly awful. It's being broadcast in anamorphic.


Now I know STO/WKYC has proven over and over they have no clue with respect to aspect ratio, but this is truly sad.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> STO SD is re-airing an "STO Classic" from a WKYC broadcast. It is truly awful. It's being broadcast in anamorphic.
> 
> 
> Now I know STO/WKYC has proven over and over they have no clue with respect to aspect ratio, but this is truly sad.



Yes, I saw this too. I was watching on my SD tv and saw that everything seemed 'squished'.


I then tuned in my Samsung DLP and put it into stretch mode. SD Widescreen!


They definitely didn't do that correctly.......


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My reception is decent in the valley... (which I believe is better than Inundated, who I believe is just up the hill from me and can't get WKYC OTA).



Yes, you're correct on both counts.


I've occasionally gotten WKYC-DT OTA via rabbit ears pointed out my window aimed at Parma...but it's not very successful, usually. I get all the UHF-DT stations with that antenna with no problems. I get WOIO-DT if I move the aerials *just* right.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just a note that as of today (Thursday 7/12) we are back to broadcasting two digital signals per transmitter (45.1 and 45.2 along with 49.1 and 49.2) with the HD on channel 1 and a rebroadcast of our analog service on channel 2. Our compromise to get that up was to return to static PSIP. That means we are able to identify the channel but not provide any program information. We're working with the manufacturer of our encoder to see what we can do to resolve that problem.
> 
> Our original encoder unit is being repaired and when it is shipped back we'll be down for an hour or so to swap out their loaner.
> 
> As for the DirecTV program information, we've contacted the service that provided program info to them. Apparently there has been no change. Since no one in our office has DirecTV HD can you tell me what they are running? Is it the Create! channel info (i.e. how-to series rather than PBS documentaries and nature series). We'll keep calling until they get it right.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



They are still showing the shows that were previously shown on 49-1

I can get name of your shows by checking 25-1 programming

Need to get this fixed

Thanks


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just a note that as of today (Thursday 7/12) we are back to broadcasting two digital signals per transmitter (45.1 and 45.2 along with 49.1 and 49.2) with the HD on channel 1 and a rebroadcast of our analog service on channel 2. Our compromise to get that up was to return to static PSIP. That means we are able to identify the channel but not provide any program information. We're working with the manufacturer of our encoder to see what we can do to resolve that problem.
> 
> Our original encoder unit is being repaired and when it is shipped back we'll be down for an hour or so to swap out their loaner.
> 
> As for the DirecTV program information, we've contacted the service that provided program info to them. Apparently there has been no change. Since no one in our office has DirecTV HD can you tell me what they are running? Is it the Create! channel info (i.e. how-to series rather than PBS documentaries and nature series). We'll keep calling until they get it right.
> 
> 
> Don Freeman
> 
> Chief Operating Officer
> 
> WNEO/WEAO



Yes, what it is showing is the old Create! schedule for 49.1. Hopefully your follow ups with DirecTV will get this guide data changed ASAP.


Thanks!


----------



## JJkizak

The ridge vents that I have are a labringth filled with plastic course foam and screen to keep out bugs and snow. There is approximately a 1" slot cut under the vent to enable the heat to escape. I have yet to see blowing snow enter as this screening acts as a snow fence. Some of the older metal overhang vents just had holes in them and would let snow blow through, sometimes a couple of feet worth.

JJK


----------



## mnowlin

On a whim, I called TWC today to apply some friendly pressure to try and bump up my name on the "We'll call you when we have HD DVRs available" list. To my surprise, I was told that the boxes are now (finally!) available - the service rep said he received the notice only a few hours earlier.


Yippee!!


I'm heading over to the local office tomorrow to try to exchange a standard digital box for the HD-DVR - wish me luck. I'll post the results tomorrow afternoon.


(For everyone waiting for one of these boxes, I offer a friendly warning - I'm posting this message as a service. If I find out that everyone on the forum takes advantage of this info and wipes out the stock of these boxes before I get one myself, I'll hunt you down and smack you with a wet noodle.







Save one for me! )


On a related note, the customer service rep didn't hesitate to offer a Monday installation, and gave me the option to pick up a box from the office tomorrow. Hmmm... What does this say about their waiting list??? Something to think about...


mike


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On a whim, I called TWC today to apply some friendly pressure to try and bump up my name on the "We'll call you when we have HD DVRs available" list. To my surprise, I was told that the boxes are now (finally!) available - the service rep said he received the notice only a few hours earlier.
> 
> 
> Yippee!!
> 
> 
> I'm heading over to the local office tomorrow to try to exchange a standard digital box for the HD-DVR - wish me luck. I'll post the results tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> 
> (For everyone waiting for one of these boxes, I offer a friendly warning - I'm posting this message as a service. If I find out that everyone on the forum takes advantage of this info and wipes out the stock of these boxes before I get one myself, I'll hunt you down and smack you with a wet noodle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save one for me! )
> 
> 
> On a related note, the customer service rep didn't hesitate to offer a Monday installation, and gave me the option to pick up a box from the office tomorrow. Hmmm... What does this say about their waiting list??? Something to think about...
> 
> 
> mike



When the SA 8300 first came out I wanted one right away. I was told I could go to my local office and pick one up, no problem.


So I disconnected my SA 8000 and went down next day to the local office. At the local office they told me they didn't have any, wern't aware that they were available and the rep shouldn't have told me to come down. I had a melt down and started yelling at the people at the desk and they promised to get me one in two days.


True enough they did.


My point is don't be surprised if you come back empty handed. Hoepfully you won't. It will be interesting to see if they give you the old SA 8300 or the new SA 8300 HDC. That is the new HD DVR that has a two way cable card inside of it. It also has a larger hard drive. Let us know what you get and how it works.


----------



## Ben Music

Is anyone in Lorain County with TWC having trouble with ON DEMAND ? Mine hasen't worked for about 3 weeks. I keep getting code (META-6). When I called to report this several weeks ago, they said that they were working on it, but so far, nothing has happened. Anyone else with this same problem?


Ben Music


----------



## Michael P 2341

I just saw over on the Ohio Media Blog that E* has added STO-HD!


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just saw over on the Ohio Media Blog that E* has added STO-HD!



HD MM posted the information here about 10 posts back (before it appeared on Ohio Media Watch).


----------



## hookbill

And while we are on the subject of "E" that same article mentions that they still are not interested in broadcasting local stations in HD.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just saw over on the Ohio Media Blog that E* has added STO-HD!



I read on dbstalk.com that STO-HD is on channel 381. I could not receive the HD broadcast Friday night or tonight on my Dish ViP 622 receiver. I'd be willing to bet that it is only on the satellite at 129°, not the satellite at 61.5°. I'm calling Dish to have 'em set up 129°.


----------



## moreHDTV

I also am not receiving 381 and it's not showing up in the epg. - many calls to ATS were not helpful. After reading your post I called ATS and asked which sat. was broadcasting 381 and after checking and saying 110 and 119 then changed her mind after looking at other information and said it was only on 129 ( which I do not get).


So I think that is the problem!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My point is don't be surprised if you come back empty handed. Hoepfully you won't. It will be interesting to see if they give you the old SA 8300 or the new SA 8300 HDC. That is the new HD DVR that has a two way cable card inside of it. It also has a larger hard drive. Let us know what you get and how it works.



Went down there today, and they did switch out the old box for me. (Kinda surprised - I usually get the "we'd rather send a tech out to your house to install this" response. Very annoying to hear that.)


It is one of the older 8300HD boxes - no cable card slot, has a 160GB drive. (My other DVR has an 80GB, so that was a nice, yet minor, upgrade.) I did the math, and I'm going to need to put an external SATA on this - our recording habits will wipe out the 160 in no time doing HD... The box is clearly rebuilt - came complete with scratches on the top/sides, but they were nice enough to put a new faceplate on it.


So far, it seems to work well, but I'll give it a few weeks before reaching any conclusions...


Watching the Tribe on STO-HD was a nice change tonight.


mike


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Went down there today, and they did switch out the old box for me. (Kinda surprised - I usually get the "we'd rather send a tech out to your house to install this" response. Very annoying to hear that.)
> 
> 
> It is one of the older 8300HD boxes - no cable card slot, has a 160GB drive. (My other DVR has an 80GB, so that was a nice, yet minor, upgrade.) I did the math, and I'm going to need to put an external SATA on this - our recording habits will wipe out the 160 in no time doing HD... The box is clearly rebuilt - came complete with scratches on the top/sides, but they were nice enough to put a new faceplate on it.
> 
> 
> So far, it seems to work well, but I'll give it a few weeks before reaching any conclusions...
> 
> 
> Watching the Tribe on STO-HD was a nice change tonight.
> 
> 
> mike



Assuming you didn't record anything, that will be the key. I don't know if you've seen TiVo's interface but if you haven't you're better off because and I say this well intentioned, ignorance is bliss.










I would say that if you do record a great deal of programming that will give you a good idea if it works well for you. Many people in this area of the forum have said they liked it. Many have been glad to get rid of it. Good luck using it, hopefully it will work out ok for you and your needs.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Assuming you didn't record anything, that will be the key. I don't know if you've seen TiVo's interface but if you haven't you're better off because and I say this well intentioned, ignorance is bliss.



Hehe... Trust me - I'm far from devoted to TWC and their equipment. The only reason I haven't switched to satellite + TiVo is the fact that the only place on my property with a good tree-free view to the south is in the front yard, right next to the sidewalk. (The trees are huge oaks that belong to my neighbor.) However, the TiVo S3 idea keeps floating around in my head.


I haven't seen it's interface, but it does seem far superior to the 8300 from what I've read. HD aside, how do the S2's compare to the S3's in general operation? My wife would freak if I bought an S3 to play with, but an eBay S2 could be possible...


mike


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HD aside, how do the S2's compare to the S3's in general operation?



On a related note, I'm curious...


If you have an S2 and don't subscribe to the service, what happens? Does it go dead? Do you just lose the program guide, but can still do manual recordings? Does my shiny new plasma release all it's gases in a death-ray akin to what red shirts experienced in the original Star Trek series?


mike


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't seen it's interface, but it does seem far superior to the 8300 from what I've read. HD aside, how do the S2's compare to the S3's in general operation? My wife would freak if I bought an S3 to play with, but an eBay S2 could be possible...
> 
> 
> mike



S3 and S3 is as different as a Yugo and a Lexas. First, S3 doesn't use a cable box the S2 it's required. The S3 uses cable cards. Second and more importantly the S2 cannot record HD.


The S2 does have MRV and TiVo to Go, but rumour now has it that those features will become available by end of 2007.


Now as far as the wife goes wait until that SA 8300 screws up a couple of her programs. Then bring the S3 in, show her the Wishlist and how reliable and easy the TiVo interface is and she will not only be happy she will thank you. My wife was so upset with the SA 8300 she gladly gave me the go ahead to purchase the S3, however she was familiar with TiVo from our D-TiVo days.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I read on dbstalk.com that STO-HD is on channel 381. I could not receive the HD broadcast Friday night or tonight on my Dish ViP 622 receiver. I'd be willing to bet that it is only on the satellite at 129°, not the satellite at 61.5°. I'm calling Dish to have 'em set up 129°.



You are correct in that STO-HD is broadcast only on Sat. 129. Unfortunately for many of us here in the NE, 129 is very problematic and many have significant signal drop-outs (myself included). That's why I had E* installers replace 129 with 61.5 a few months ago. As of now, all other 129 channels are also broadcast on 61.5 except STO-HD. Now I am in a bit of a dilemma as I am missing out on STO-HD.

*mnowlin*, as a side note, TW does carries STO-HD? I thought Hookbill posted a while back that TW doesn't have any RSN's in HD yet?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> *mnowlin*, as a side note, TW does carries STO-HD? I thought Hookbill posted a while back that TW doesn't have any RSN's in HD yet?



What I said was that TW doesn't carry RSN's in the manner that D* does. It carrys STO-HD on channel 798 in my area but that is also used for Cav's HD games as well.


Let's say you subscribe to MLB Extra Innings on D*. You may very well have access to the HD broadcast of whatever game you are watching via RSN's that D* has available. TW doesn't offer anything like that.


And of course TW carries STO in HD, they were the big partner that kicked off STO to begin with. They had it before anybody did, including old Adelphia.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I said was that TW doesn't carry RSN's in the manner that D* does. It carrys STO-HD on channel 798 in my area but that is also used for Cav's HD games as well.
> 
> 
> Let's say you subscribe to MLB Extra Innings on D*. You may very well have access to the HD broadcast of whatever game you are watching via RSN's that D* has available. TW doesn't offer anything like that.
> 
> 
> And of course TW carries STO in HD, they were the big partner that kicked off STO to begin with. They had it before anybody did, including old Adelphia.



Ok, good to know. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now as far as the wife goes wait until that SA 8300 screws up a couple of her programs. Then bring the S3 in, show her the Wishlist and how reliable and easy the TiVo interface is and she will not only be happy she will thank you. My wife was so upset with the SA 8300 she gladly gave me the go ahead to purchase the S3, however she was familiar with TiVo from our D-TiVo days.



From what you've described, you had a very early 8300 with older firmware. Early adopters always get to see a new product's rough edges. And to be fair, there's still some mpeg weirdness going on with the (still new) S3 also.


The current firmware in the 8300 is quite good.


CK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From what you've described, you had a very early 8300 with older firmware. Early adopters always get to see a new product's rough edges. And to be fair, there's still some mpeg weirdness going on with the (still new) S3 also.
> 
> 
> The current firmware in the 8300 is quite good.
> 
> 
> CK



I had an SA 8300 as early as last September and it was running 1.87.XX.X (because I don't remember all the numbers







). To the best of my knowledge after two additional attempts to go to 1.88 firmware TW has dropped back to 1.87. So I doubt there is anything new or different going on. Also the last SA 8300 I returned was in August.


No, the problem is in that the SA 8300 is a cheaply designed pos and you get what you pay for.


----------



## HD MM

Anyone catch the feature on WJW Fox-8 News last night featuring their newly revamped HD influenced studio? Interesting to see the way HD is influencing the way media is being delivered.


----------



## snagy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone catch the feature on WJW Fox-8 News last night featuring their newly revamped HD influenced studio? Interesting to see the way HD is influencing the way media is being delivered.




Its well and good, but until everyone starts to boost their signal strength, those of us in the out-skirts will continue to get a weak signal. Whats the magic distance from transmitter about 25 miles if I remember?


Tom Rivers


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone catch the feature on WJW Fox-8 News last night featuring their newly revamped HD influenced studio? Interesting to see the way HD is influencing the way media is being delivered.



Yep, I took a look at it a few times yesterday and this morning. It looks spectacular, it's funny though they did a sound off on it and it seemed most people didn't like it that much. Probably because they don't have HD.


Peasants.....off with their heads.


----------



## salemtubes

The E* technician just finished moving my HD dish from 61.5° to 129°. STO-HD is now showing up in the program guide on channel 381. Indians baseball in HD tonight!


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its well and good, but until everyone starts to boost their signal strength, those of us in the out-skirts will continue to get a weak signal. Whats the magic distance from transmitter about 25 miles if I remember?
> 
> 
> Tom Rivers



Tom, I live about 55 miles from WJW's transmitter and receive an excellent signal from WJW-DT. Both WEWS-DT and WJW-DT come in over 95% on my Dish ViP 622 receiver.


My setup includes a Channel Master 4228 antenna, Channel Master 7777 mast mounted amplifier and a rotator.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its well and good, but until everyone starts to boost their signal strength, those of us in the out-skirts will continue to get a weak signal. Whats the magic distance from transmitter about 25 miles if I remember?
> 
> 
> Tom Rivers



Each station differs on how far out their signal can be received.


For example from here in the Cleveland antenna farm I can watch Youngstown's WKBN-DT 24/7 @ 56 miles!


In Auburn you should have no problems with most Cleveland stations with the well documented exception of WOIO-DT and possibly WKYC-DT.


In any event don't try to get digital signals OTA with an indoor antenna unless you can see the towers and can point your antenna directly at them. Ihad a chance to play around with a cheap TV that had an ATSC tuner and a cheap set of rabbit ears in Parma Hts. While it did get a signal move around the room and it looses lock.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I just went to Titan TV for tonight's OTA guide, it still has "Annenberg CPB Channel" listed for 50.1.


So for those of you with D* that may be the reason why your EPG's are wrong.


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had an SA 8300 as early as last September and it was running 1.87.XX.X (because I don't remember all the numbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). To the best of my knowledge after two additional attempts to go to 1.88 firmware TW has dropped back to 1.87. So I doubt there is anything new or different going on. Also the last SA 8300 I returned was in August.
> 
> 
> No, the problem is in that the SA 8300 is a cheaply designed pos and you get what you pay for.



They finally got the new firmware to stick. It's been loaded for a couple of months now. The biggest improvements, imho, are that you can now set the day of the week and the time for recurring recordings and you can watch a a recording that is in progress from the beginning and it doesn't cut you off when the recording stops.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They finally got the new firmware to stick. It's been loaded for a couple of months now. The biggest improvements, imho, are that you can now set the day of the week and the time for recurring recordings and you can watch a a recording that is in progress from the beginning and it doesn't cut you off when the recording stops.



I wasn't aware that they did install the new firmware again. I'm aware of what the firmware did and you are right, being able to watch while recording was the best feature. I thought the fourth speed was too fast but oddly enough someone in the TiVo forum is complaining that the S3 doesn't have 4 speeds.







Different strokes for different folks.


One thing I am quite aware of however is the firmware did absolutely nothing in dealing with the problems I was having with the SA 8300. I was still getting partial recordings and still missing recordings.


This is a strange issue because I know for a fact that many people in our area did not experience these issues. I also know that many did. If the SA 8300 was reliable I would never have got the S3, it really wasn't my desire to shell out 800 bucks for a DVR. But after two years of problems, 3 different SA 8300's and one SA 8000 I just couldn't take it anymore. I babysit that thing daily and it still failed me.


For those of you who don't have problems consider yourself fortunate. I just wasn't so lucky.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The E* technician just finished moving my HD dish from 61.5° to 129°. STO-HD is now showing up in the program guide on channel 381. Indians baseball in HD tonight!



Make sure you receive the 129 channels with a steady signal. Having a dish pointed at 61.5 in the first place is not typical for the average install. Instead, 61.5 is usually reserved for those (myself included) who have problems with the failing 129. As of now, the only channel that is solely on 129 and not also available at 61.5 is STO-HD.


Best of luck with 129. Go Tribe!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had an SA 8300 as early as last September and it was running 1.87.XX.X (because I don't remember all the numbers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). To the best of my knowledge after two additional attempts to go to 1.88 firmware TW has dropped back to 1.87. So I doubt there is anything new or different going on. Also the last SA 8300 I returned was in August. .



The current firmware in the SARA areas is v1.89.


Hookbill, what's the current version for Tivo? I've heard two different things regarding the way they designate their firmware versions.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make sure you receive the 129 channels with a steady signal. Having a dish pointed at 61.5 in the first place is not typical for the average install. Instead, 61.5 is usually reserved for those (myself included) who have problems with the failing 129. As of now, the only channel that is solely on 129 and not also available at 61.5 is STO-HD.
> 
> 
> Best of luck with 129. Go Tribe!



That's a cool web site. Thanks!


So far everything is fine. I'm enjoying the Indians in HD as I'm writing this.










My E* installation is on the eastward slope of my garage roof. It was installed on a cold December day when there was about 3" of snow on the roof. 129° is not visible from the original location.


Today's installer moved the 61.5° dish to my previous D* location near the peak of my roof, and it has a clear view of 129°. The installer left the mount for the 61.5° location. See the attached picture. If I have problems, I'll move the dish back myself. I'm going to have to get after the wisteria that is about to cover the main dish.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Quick question. I have TWC basic (broadcast) only. I have a QAM tuner on my computer, so I can get quite a few digital channels, and that works great. My question is, I SWEAR on the first day I had it I went past a channel that was a blue screen, with text that said, check back here for the next Indians HD broadcast at 6:30pm tonight. That was a few days ago, and I don't remember which channel number it was. Did I see this right, because I could not find it tonight during the game? Do I get a channel that broadcasts the Tribe in HD via QAM? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Lighting Guy,

Sometimes via QAM I would get some channels intermittenly. Like a couple of times I saw the last half hour of a movie on HBO, but then no matter how hard I tried I could not get it to be a repeat occurance. The QAM signals are glitchy like that, and I think it depends on what kind of tuner you have. (not that any tuner will regularly pick up HBO or STO-HD) So to answer your question, no you should not get STO-SD or STO-HD via QAM.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The current firmware in the SARA areas is v1.89.
> 
> 
> Hookbill, what's the current version for Tivo? I've heard two different things regarding the way they designate their firmware versions.



Current version for the S3 is 8.3. I wasn't aware that the latest version of SARA was 1.89, I thought it would be 1.88. Can you see any difference between 1.89 and 1.88?


----------



## Norm78




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Quick question. I have TWC basic (broadcast) only. I have a QAM tuner on my computer, so I can get quite a few digital channels, and that works great. My question is, I SWEAR on the first day I had it I went past a channel that was a blue screen, with text that said, check back here for the next Indians HD broadcast at 6:30pm tonight. That was a few days ago, and I don't remember which channel number it was. Did I see this right, because I could not find it tonight during the game? Do I get a channel that broadcasts the Tribe in HD via QAM? Thanks in advance.



I have the same setup as you and I get STO-HD on 106.1. This morning it says the next game is 7/24/07 at 6:30pm against the Red Sox. I used to get MOJO the same way, but alas it's no longer there. I would have loved to have seen a few of the free HowardTV on demand shows.


----------



## jtscherne

That's wrong. There's a game on STO-HD at noon today.


----------



## Norm78




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's wrong. There's a game on STO-HD at noon today.



You probably have the HD tier as part of your service, we do not. Our QAM tuner picks up a channel that occasionally carries the games live.


----------



## rlb

I had a couple HR-20's (D* HD PVR) installed today. I hooked up the OTA antenna after the installer left. I get all the digital channels except for 3-1. I can get it with my Sony TV tuner and got it at 92 strength on my HD Tivo. I'm only around 5 miles south of the antenna farm and have a roof top antenna.


Bottom line: Has anyone discovered that the HR-20 has problems receiving low VHF channels and channel 3-1 in particular(digital channel 2 I believe)? Does anyone get 3-1 OTA on their HR-20?


Thanks for the help.


----------



## jtscherne

This was a bug in an earlier software version, but was corrected in a later update (I get 3-1 & 3-2 with no problem).


Try to force a software download with the following steps:


1. With the box on, push the reset button. As soon as the blue welcome screen comes up, press the following remote buttons: 0 2 4 6 8 (Make sure you take your time so the box gets the signal)


2. The box will then compare your software version with the current version and will download the new version if one is available.


Frankly, the installer should have done this, but I don't trust them.


There's an active forum over on dbstalk that discusses software updates for Directv boxes. D* actually regularly sends out software updates ahead of time to people willing to "test drive" the new versions. Here's the link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=118 


Hope this helps!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had a couple HR-20's (D* HD PVR) installed today. I hooked up the OTA antenna after the installer left. I get all the digital channels except for 3-1. I can get it with my Sony TV tuner and got it at 92 strength on my HD Tivo. I'm only around 5 miles south of the antenna farm and have a roof top antenna.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: Has anyone discovered that the HR-20 has problems receiving low VHF channels and channel 3-1 in particular(digital channel 2 I believe)? Does anyone get 3-1 OTA on their HR-20?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the same setup as you and I get STO-HD on 106.1. This morning it says the next game is 7/24/07 at 6:30pm against the Red Sox. I used to get MOJO the same way, but alas it's no longer there. I would have loved to have seen a few of the free HowardTV on demand shows.



Excellent. You are correct, I swore that I saw that and I'm not crazy, just couldn't remember where, and didn't want to step through ALL the encypted QAMs. Thanks! (although sad now they are out of town the rest of the week.)


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had a couple HR-20's (D* HD PVR) installed today. I hooked up the OTA antenna after the installer left. I get all the digital channels except for 3-1. I can get it with my Sony TV tuner and got it at 92 strength on my HD Tivo. I'm only around 5 miles south of the antenna farm and have a roof top antenna.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: Has anyone discovered that the HR-20 has problems receiving low VHF channels and channel 3-1 in particular(digital channel 2 I believe)? Does anyone get 3-1 OTA on their HR-20?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.



Give it a day to update to the newest software. Once it updates, you should have better luck with WKYC. The newest software allows for Low-VHF support. The tuner in the HR20 is no where as good as in most of the newer TVs on the market today. It doesn't handle multipath very well. But you are very close to the towers and shouldn't have an issue picking it up.


Can you confirm what software version you currently have on your HR20?


edit... Oops. Didn't see the other response.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Give it a day to update to the newest software. Once it updates, you should have better luck with WKYC. The newest software allows for Low-VHF support. The tuner in the HR20 is no where as good as in most of the newer TVs on the market today. It doesn't handle multipath very well. But you are very close to the towers and shouldn't have an issue picking it up.
> 
> 
> Can you confirm what software version you currently have on your HR20?
> 
> 
> edit... Oops. Didn't see the other response.



It has already updated to the 0x168 (latest version). If it makes any difference, I have the "-100" version of the HR20.


I could even get 3-1 on my old Samsung HD box TS360 as well as my SXRD and the HR10-250 (signal strength of 92). Plus, I could get it 6 years ago on a first generation Mits HD STB. Has me "stumped". Can get it on everything but the HR20-100.


But, I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the MPEG4 locals. I really can't tell any difference so far between them and the OTA stations.


Thanks to you and JTSCHERNE for the input.


----------



## snagy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Each station differs on how far out their signal can be received.
> 
> 
> For example from here in the Cleveland antenna farm I can watch Youngstown's WKBN-DT 24/7 @ 56 miles!
> 
> 
> In Auburn you should have no problems with most Cleveland stations with the well documented exception of WOIO-DT and possibly WKYC-DT.
> 
> 
> In any event don't try to get digital signals OTA with an indoor antenna unless you can see the towers and can point your antenna directly at them. Ihad a chance to play around with a cheap TV that had an ATSC tuner and a cheap set of rabbit ears in Parma Hts. While it did get a signal move around the room and it looses lock.



Our problem has been that we use the tuner in the Direc$ tuner which is not too bad, new antenna, rotor all recently installed. Locking on to the signal through all the trees and small hills in geauga county is tough. 3.1 has never come in for us in the Rt 422 corridor, 5.1 and 8.1 are pretty much on the same line of sight for us. I have much cleaner view of Youngstown channels and use them as much as possible. Pittsburgh channel 11.1 came in even over the weekend while i had the rotor turned toward Youngstown. Its just weird to listen and watch Youngstown local news while living in the "cleveland area" I have to admit that 33.2 ? weather channel is way better than 19.2


Tom


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Our problem has been that we use the tuner in the Direc$ tuner which is not too bad, new antenna, rotor all recently installed. Locking on to the signal through all the trees and small hills in geauga county is tough. 3.1 has never come in for us in the Rt 422 corridor, 5.1 and 8.1 are pretty much on the same line of sight for us. I have much cleaner view of Youngstown channels and use them as much as possible. Pittsburgh channel 11.1 came in even over the weekend while i had the rotor turned toward Youngstown. Its just weird to listen and watch Youngstown local news while living in the "cleveland area" I have to admit that 33.2 ? weather channel is way better than 19.2
> 
> 
> Tom



Can you set up your antenna to get a decent picture (no snow or ghosting) on (analog) channel 3? If so, you should be able to get their digital signal on (physical) channel 2, only 6 MHz lower. The problem may not really be signal strength (or multipath) but interference from (analog) channel 2's in Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and beyond. Even the best of outdoor TV antennas don't have much directivity on channels 2, 3 or 4.


Ron


----------



## snagy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you set up your antenna to get a decent picture (no snow or ghosting) on (analog) channel 3? If so, you should be able to get their digital signal on (physical) channel 2, only 6 MHz lower. The problem may not really be signal strength (or multipath) but interference from (analog) channel 2's in Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and beyond. Even the best of outdoor TV antennas don't have much directivity on channels 2, 3 or 4.
> 
> 
> Ron



Analog signal is perfect, no one on our street gets 3.1 at all with their antenna's, let alone 3.2 or the old 3.3


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It has already updated to the 0x168 (latest version). If it makes any difference, I have the "-100" version of the HR20.
> 
> 
> I could even get 3-1 on my old Samsung HD box TS360 as well as my SXRD and the HR10-250 (signal strength of 92). Plus, I could get it 6 years ago on a first generation Mits HD STB. Has me "stumped". Can get it on everything but the HR20-100.
> 
> 
> But, I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the MPEG4 locals. I really can't tell any difference so far between them and the OTA stations.
> 
> 
> Thanks to you and JTSCHERNE for the input.



I can usually get 3-1 on my Samsung DLP tuner without issue. Some breakups are present, but I am 38 miles away from the towers. I bet I can only get 3-1 on my HR20 about 5% of the time. I also have the -100 version of the HR20. I don't usually bother with 3-1 since, as you stated, the quality of the MPEG4 locals is really good. I honestly cannot tell the difference.


Did you test the signal strength? Are you getting anything on the meter for 3-1 or 3-2?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can usually get 3-1 on my Samsung DLP tuner without issue. Some breakups are present, but I am 38 miles away from the towers. I bet I can only get 3-1 on my HR20 about 5% of the time. I also have the -100 version of the HR20. I don't usually bother with 3-1 since, as you stated, the quality of the MPEG4 locals is really good. I honestly cannot tell the difference.
> 
> 
> Did you test the signal strength? Are you getting anything on the meter for 3-1 or 3-2?



On the HD Tivo I had a signal strength of "92" for 3-1. As strong or stronger than any of the others.


I can't find a way to measure signal strength for OTA stations on the HR-20. Am I missing something?


----------



## HD MM

Anyone have the specs on the TW box I would receive if I subscibed to TW's bare-bones package? I am just looking to get locals in HD while I wait for E* to add LiL's.....


----------



## snagy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can usually get 3-1 on my Samsung DLP tuner without issue. Some breakups are present, but I am 38 miles away from the towers. I bet I can only get 3-1 on my HR20 about 5% of the time. I also have the -100 version of the HR20. I don't usually bother with 3-1 since, as you stated, the quality of the MPEG4 locals is really good. I honestly cannot tell the difference.
> 
> 
> Did you test the signal strength? Are you getting anything on the meter for 3-1 or 3-2?




dead zero on signal strenght, even using the antenna companies professional meter. Directv installers meter read zero also. They all claim it has something to do with node / antinode's (and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express either)


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But, I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the MPEG4 locals. I really can't tell any difference so far between them and the OTA stations.



I wish I was in your boat. With E*, I am still waitng for LiL's. I wish I had the problem of having to choose between OTA HD and D* provided HD Locals! Must be nice!


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dead zero on signal strenght, even using the antenna companies professional meter. Directv installers meter read zero also. They all claim it has something to do with node / antinode's (and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express either)



Wouldn't that issue be the same on any receiver at the same location?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dead zero on signal strenght, even using the antenna companies professional meter. Directv installers meter read zero also. They all claim it has something to do with node / antinode's (and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express either)



I can't promise the same rates as a Holiday in, but:

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...es/u10l4c.html 


So the interference standing waves could come from reflections or other channel 2's.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't promise the same rates as a Holiday in, but:
> 
> http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...es/u10l4c.html
> 
> 
> So the interference standing waves could come from reflections or other channel 2's.



How about my issue? Presume since I get a picture on other receivers fed digital channel 2 by my rooftop antenna, the issue on the HR20 must be something other than nodes/anti nodes (i.e., phenomena is specific to a geographical point, not a specific piece of electronics).


----------



## jtscherne

The HR20-100 is the newer version and is getting software updates behind the HR20-700, but both are at 0168 version. As I mentioned earlier, I had the -700 and originally couldn't get 3 OTA. However, this was corrected quite awhile ago. You may want to contact technical support at D* to see if this is still a problem with the -100.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How about my issue? Presume since I get a picture on other receivers fed digital channel 2 by my rooftop antenna, the issue on the HR20 must be something other than nodes/anti nodes (i.e., phenomena is specific to a geographical point, not a specific piece of electronics).



You are probably correct and it has for to do with the RF front end of the HR20 and the generation of chipset is has to filter out the unwanted signals and correct multipath. I haven't followed this entire thread but have you tried connecting the HR20 directly to the antenna downlead (no splitters) with and without a preamp if you have one?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Even the best of outdoor TV antennas don't have much directivity on channels 2, 3 or 4.



If this is true, then why do I lose WKYC-DT just by a slight change in my antenna? I'll admit I'm in a unique situation being in the antenna farm, however I used to think that the VHF low band was a slam dunk when it's anything but! My experience has been that VHF high band is less directional (getting WOIO-DT off the side of a UHF antenna for example - that would not happen with WKYC). What may work for you is a VHF-only (in fact a ch 2 only) yagi antenna. It's not worth investing in the current WKYC-DT, as they are moving to ch 17 by 2009.


In the meantime I suggest watching 21 Chief's station - you will get the same NBC programs with less probability of getting the network preempted. The OTA Indians games can be seen on WKBN-DT's subchannel WYFX 27.2. It's only SD, but at least you'll get the game that WKYC is carrying.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If this is true, then why do I lose WKYC-DT just by a slight change in my antenna?



I'm probably the most unqualified person to respond about OTA issues, but I do know this. With OT, HD either you get it or you don't. It's not anything like analog where you can get some what of a signal and pull it in.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Yes Hook, what you say is true! The node/antinode discussion above may be an explanation. When I lose ch 3 my signal strength goes from 125 to ~70. Keep in mind I can see the WKYC tower out my back door. If only I could see the reflected signal that is canceling out the direct signal.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes Hook, what you say is true! The node/antinode discussion above may be an explanation. When I lose ch 3 my signal strength goes from 125 to ~70. Keep in mind I can see the WKYC tower out my back door. If only I could see the reflected signal that is canceling out the direct signal.



Have you tried adding attenuation? You might be able to select the main (strong) signal by reducing the reflected (weaker) signals. I know that you must be subject to some heavy RF overloads.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are probably correct and it has for to do with the RF front end of the HR20 and the generation of chipset is has to filter out the unwanted signals and correct multipath. I haven't followed this entire thread but have you tried connecting the HR20 directly to the antenna downlead (no splitters) with and without a preamp if you have one?



Only splitter is one in the basement where cable enters the house. I can't remove it, but signal strength sure isn't my problem. I don't use a pre amp.


All other OTA channels on the HR20-100 show strength of 95-100. Channel 3-1 shows "not acquired". On my HD Tivo it had a strength of "92" which was as high as any of the others. Even on my old "first generation" Mitsubishi STB, the 3-1 (digital channel 2) worked fine. In fact, it's worked fine on a total of five prior receivers/TV tuners.


Given the above and the fact that older HR20-700's had a software fix a couple months ago that allowed them to acquire low VHF signals, I'm going after Direct TV technical to ask if the HR20-100's failed to get the same "fix". Nothing else appears reasonable. I even tried attenuators (because of high signal strength) and they only lowered others to around 90 but still "no acquired" for 3-1.


If anyone is "acquiring" 3-1 with one of the HR20-100's, I would appreciate hearing about it. Plus, let me know if you are having a problem similar to mine.


Thanks.


----------



## Pucky

Off topic a bit, but is there a way to read this thread via an RSS reader? I don't know if that has to be enabled thread by thread or not...


Thanks for any help.


----------



## rlb

Talked to D* techs. Program managers had me "reset everything" on one of my HR20-100's. That failed to resolve "not acquiring" 3-1. They said it was a previously undefined software issue (thought it had already been fixed) and they would call me back with an estimated "fix" date or request for more information.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Talked to D* techs. Program managers had me "reset everything" on one of my HR20-100's. That failed to resolve "not acquiring" 3-1. They said it was a previously undefined software issue (thought it had already been fixed) and they would call me back with an estimated "fix" date or request for more information.



Gotta love "techs"...... they don't really sound like they know what they are talking about. You may want to head over the dbstalk.com and let the folks over there help you with your issue. The HR20 forum over there is very knowledgeable.


All I know is, after it updates to 0x168, your HR20-100 should be able to pick up 3-1.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gotta love "techs"...... they don't really sound like they know what they are talking about. You may want to head over the dbstalk.com and let the folks over there help you with your issue. The HR20 forum over there is very knowledgeable.
> 
> 
> All I know is, after it updates to 0x168, your HR20-100 should be able to pick up 3-1.



Thanks. I read the dbstalk HR20 Forum on a daily basis. I've been posting the issue over there since I noticed the problem. Finally got Earl's attention and just provided him more info. Like you, he thinks the HR20-100 should not have an issue with Cleveland's 3-1.


My "tech" put me on hold and spent around 10 minutes talking to a software supervisor in the shop responsible for the HR20. He was the one that had me do a "clear everything". When that didn't work (i.e., still "not acquired") he was the one who said it appeared that they had a software problem again.


I do have 0x168. Tech said that the software fix was made 2 months ago; but now the software "guy" was afraid that 0x168 may have "screwed it up" again.


This is definitely confusing for me. SXRD tuner gets 3-1 as good as any of the other digitals. HD Tivo (strength 92 for 3-1) and 2 prior satellite receivers had no problem. Neither of my new HR20-100's will acquire 3-1 but get all other digitals at 95-100 strength. It may not be an issue between the HR20 and low VHF channels; but sure sounds like it.


Do you actually have an HR20-100 that currently acquires 3-1?


----------



## JJkizak

I see 8.1 OTA finally fixed their live news set. Noise levels are back down and the sharpness and resolution have returned to normal. The British Open on 5.1 could hardly be called "HD". It looked like ordinary digital widescreen to me. The PBS desert series really looked great.

JJK


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The British Open on 5.1 could hardly be called "HD". It looked like ordinary digital widescreen to me.




It is just digital wide screen, since its the video feed from the BBC.


----------



## rlb

I'm looking for input from anyone near Cleveland using an HR20-100 DVR (not the older and much more prevalent "HR20-700") with an OTA antenna input.


Can your DVR "acquire" the OTA 3-1 signal?


I've had input here and at dbstalk which advises that the HR20-100's were "fixed" of the bug that stopped them from receiving low VHF channels. However, I haven't heard from anyone who can actually "acquire" Cleveland 3-1 (digital channel 2) with one of the HR20-100's. Neither of my new ones (with the current firmware) will acquire the channel. If one person confirms acquisition, then I have two defective DVR's. Otherwise, there is still a software problem.


Thanks for any information.


P.S. I know 3-1 is a problem station. However, I've had two TV tuners and 4 different STB's that receive it at my location (5-6 miles south of the antenna farm with a good rooftop antenna).


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have the specs on the TW box I would receive if I subscibed to TW's bare-bones package? I am just looking to get locals in HD while I wait for E* to add LiL's.....



I don't believe you'd get any "box". Just a cable that would provide signals for your TV to decode. There have been some reports that this includes the "clear" HD feeds that an HD TV can natively decode.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If this is true, then why do I lose WKYC-DT just by a slight change in my antenna? I'll admit I'm in a unique situation being in the antenna farm, however I used to think that the VHF low band was a slam dunk when it's anything but!



At your location, it probably has more to do with multipath. Very slight changes in antenna orientation can have a huge effect on multipath and the phase of the multipath signals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There have been some reports that this includes the "clear" HD feeds that an HD TV can natively decode.



It can decode it if he has a HD ready set. If it's not HD ready, you can't receive them without a box.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It can decode it if he has a HD ready set. If it's not HD ready, you can't receive them without a box.



More specifically it can decode it if it has a QAM capable tuner. HD ready generally denotes ATSC 8VSB, not necessarily ATSC QAM. A cable card slot is a good sign for a QAM capable tuner, but the lack of one doesn't necessarily mean the set doesn't have a QAM capable tuner.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't believe you'd get any "box". Just a cable that would provide signals for your TV to decode. There have been some reports that this includes the "clear" HD feeds that an HD TV can natively decode.



If true, this is what I was fearing since the whole idea of me getting cable in the first place was to feed HD locals to the projector in the basement. I would need a box that I could connect to via component or HDMI since the projector doesn't have a coaxial input or HD tuner. Any other ideas of the cheapest way to route HD locals to a projector?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If true, this is what I was fearing since the whole idea of me getting cable in the first place was to feed HD locals to the projector in the basement. I would need a box that I could connect to via component or HDMI since the projector doesn't have a coaxial input or HD tuner. Any other ideas of the cheapest way to route HD locals to a projector?



External HD-cable-box OR HDTV-tuner-box.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> External HD-cable-box OR HDTV-tuner-box.



ugh. I said "cheap solution". I might as well just get the H20/HR20 that I was trying to avoid. I wonder if TW would rent me a box upon request to just pick up locals.


----------



## jtscherne

Yes. That's what I had for awhile. It was a pretty reasonable price.


----------



## Smarty-pants

(Opening can of worms here but...) RJ-Tech makes a box (I have one) theat decodes ATSC and QAM signals. It then converts the output resolution to 480i. Sounds not good, but the outputted 480i pic is VERY clean and looks fantastic on my old 30"CRT HD-ready tv. The box is actually designed for output to an SDTV, but I got it as a cheap way to watch hdtv via component output to that tv. The box can be had for like around $75 on fLeaBay. I think maybe TigerDirect or NewEgg and a couple other places sell it too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ugh. I said "cheap solution". I might as well just get the H20/HR20 that I was trying to avoid. I wonder if TW would rent me a box upon request to just pick up locals.



No offense but you select a system for how your television is delivered, then you live with the available choices. If you're looking for "cheap" way to get that HD delivered you really need to look at the choices of receiving television and find what is the best for your situation.


This stuff with a little cable here, a dash of satellite there, may make some sense in some situations, like in the old days when there were no locals on satellite but I don't think it's worth it anymore.


Unfortunately not everyone lives in an area or situation where OTA is available. If you are one of those people (like me) then you either pony up for HD or move.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ugh. I said "cheap solution". I might as well just get the H20/HR20 that I was trying to avoid. I wonder if TW would rent me a box upon request to just pick up locals.



I have a set-up that you may want to look in to. I have the bare bones basic cable from TWC. That feeds in to the MyHD card in my computer (built in ntsc, atsc and qam tuners). That then goes via VGA into an HD ready TV.


The MyHD card costs a bit, but then you have all 3 tuners, and a PVR on your computer. Any more questions let me know.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> (Opening can of worms here but...) RJ-Tech makes a box (I have one) theat decodes ATSC and QAM signals. It then converts the output resolution to 480i. Sounds not good, but the outputted 480i pic is VERY clean and looks fantastic on my old 30"CRT HD-ready tv. The box is actually designed for output to an SDTV, but I got it as a cheap way to watch hdtv via component output to that tv. The box can be had for like around $75 on fLeaBay. I think maybe TigerDirect or NewEgg and a couple other places sell it too.



Sorry, but if you are outputting 480i from the box you aren't watching HD. You are watching a program from the HD channel; but you are at best watching an upconverted picture on your TV.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, but if you are outputting 480i from the box you aren't watching HD. You are watching a program from the HD channel; but you are at best watching an upconverted picture on your TV.



Ummm, ya. I thought I already pretty much said that, but thanks for making it even more clear.







The 480i pic is VERY clean and looks just about as good as HD does on my other TV that has the tuners built in.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ummm, ya. I thought I already pretty much said that, but thanks for making it even more clear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 480i pic is VERY clean and looks just about as good as HD does on my other TV that has the tuners built in.



I've got a couple of NTSC tuner cards and I've noticed that 480i looks a lot better on the computer's monitor because it's being deinterlaced by the computer, producing a 480p display. The result is surprisingly good when considering that there's no iincrease in resolution beyond 480i; there's just an _apparent_ increase because of the lack of visible scan lines.


----------



## hookbill

I just was watching FOX 8 news on their beautiful new HD set. They were talking about a couple of Ohio State games that will not be televised in our area because TW doesn't carry the Big 10 Network.


The cost would be $1.10 monthly per person and once again TW says just like the NFL network, no unless it goes on a sports tier which Big 10 doesn't want. Apparently the majority of the programming will not be sports related.


Now personally I don't want to pay for either one of them so as far as I'm concerned I'll stand with TW on this issue.


You may now begin to throw objects. Please keep it to soft things like vegetables. No rocks or sticks.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm looking for input from anyone near Cleveland using an HR20-100 DVR (not the older and much more prevalent "HR20-700") with an OTA antenna input.
> 
> 
> Can your DVR "acquire" the OTA 3-1 signal?



I just checked my HR20-100 & at this point in time it is not receiving 3-1. Attempting to tune to 3-1 yields a "Searching for Signal 771" error. The HD Tivo that was there before receives 3-1 fine as does the HD Tivo upstairs & the Sony SXRD's internal tuner, all of which are on the same antenna.


I thought I checked that all the OTA signals worked when I hooked it up a few months ago, but I can't be 100% positive. Apparently I'm recording the MPEG4 signals for my recordings rather than the OTA input. The 771 error almost appears like a satellite channel that 3-1 is mis-mapped too, but that's a SWAG at best...


I have an HR20-700 in the same setup, but haven't hooked up the OTA input as it wasn't yet enabled when I added it to the system. Perhaps I should switch them at this point?


Let me know if you need any other feedback...


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just checked my HR20-100 & at this point in time it is not receiving 3-1. Attempting to tune to 3-1 yields a "Searching for Signal 771" error. The HD Tivo that was there before receives 3-1 fine as does the HD Tivo upstairs & the Sony SXRD's internal tuner, all of which are on the same antenna.
> 
> 
> I thought I checked that all the OTA signals worked when I hooked it up a few months ago, but I can't be 100% positive. Apparently I'm recording the MPEG4 signals for my recordings rather than the OTA input. The 771 error almost appears like a satellite channel that 3-1 is mis-mapped too, but that's a SWAG at best...
> 
> 
> I have an HR20-700 in the same setup, but haven't hooked up the OTA input as it wasn't yet enabled when I added it to the system. Perhaps I should switch them at this point?
> 
> 
> Let me know if you need any other feedback...



Thanks!! I've been trying for a couple days and this is the first germane input I've received. The DirectTV tech and programmers said the "100" was fixed in May but 0x168 must have messed it up again. All other input has been that it was okay now; but none were specific that "theirs" now worked on low VHF channels.


I guess our best hope is that, after my call, DirecTV actually added this issue to their list of required fixes and that in a month or two it will be fixed again.


Thanks again!


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PBS4549* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As for the DirecTV program information, we've contacted the service that provided program info to them. Apparently there has been no change. Since no one in our office has DirecTV HD can you tell me what they are running? Is it the Create! channel info (i.e. how-to series rather than PBS documentaries and nature series). We'll keep calling until they get it right.



FYI --- DirecTV is now sending the correct guide data for 49.1. I first noticed on Monday evening. Now I can record the PBS HD stuff!


However, the audio drop outs on 49.1 are pretty bad right now. They are occurring every few seconds. The picture still looks great! Hopefully they are close to getting their encoder issues solved.


----------



## Inundated

I haven't tried in a long time, but my QAM tuner in my Fusion HDTV5USB card picked up the HDBON (798) channel for months. That's the channel being asked about, which carries STO/Indians and FSN Ohio/Cavs when they have HD games.


I don't know if it's changed, though. Even my Westy is getting fed from an SA8000HD box.


Oh, and hookbill? Have you heard about the lower-priced TiVo HD (sort of a "S3 lite")?


It comes out in the next few weeks at $299 MSRP, and seems to be nearly equivalent to the S3, give or take a bell or whistle or two.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, and hookbill? Have you heard about the lower-priced TiVo HD (sort of a "S3 lite")?
> 
> 
> It comes out in the next few weeks at $299 MSRP, and seems to be nearly equivalent to the S3, give or take a bell or whistle or two.



Yes, I'm only too well aware of it. I'll probably pick one up if they ever make MRV available (and only if it's not limited to SD).


One of the "bells and whistles" that are missing on the new TiVo is THX certified. That's not as minor as some of the other things. You need to meet certain requirements in technology to get that certification. I'm sure there will be a great deal of debate about the two once it actually starts to get into peoples homes.


In any case it's got to be 100 times better then the SA 8300.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In any case it's got to be 100 times better then the SA 8300.



No kidding.










I'm not all that sure about it, since I have this sinking feeling TWC will ramp up SDV sooner rather than later - which will effectively make whatever channels unavailable to the TiVo.


Sounds very good otherwise, tho.


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just was watching FOX 8 news on their beautiful new HD set. They were talking about a couple of Ohio State games that will not be televised in our area because TW doesn't carry the Big 10 Network.
> 
> 
> The cost would be $1.10 monthly per person and once again TW says just like the NFL network, no unless it goes on a sports tier which Big 10 doesn't want. Apparently the majority of the programming will not be sports related.
> 
> 
> Now personally I don't want to pay for either one of them so as far as I'm concerned I'll stand with TW on this issue.
> 
> 
> You may now begin to throw objects. Please keep it to soft things like vegetables. No rocks or sticks.



I only really watch the Bowl games or those on holidays anyways...so it doesn't matter to me, either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not all that sure about it, since I have this sinking feeling TWC will ramp up SDV sooner rather than later - which will effectively make whatever channels unavailable to the TiVo.
> 
> 
> Sounds very good otherwise, tho.



Now let's just use a little common sense here. They still have not figured out a way to unify all the channels in the area, an operation that I heard would be completed in June. It's almost August. They can't even think about SDV until they do that.


When they do implement SDV it will probably affect very few of the channels I record the majority of my programming on, which is on the Big 4 networks. I'm a bit concerned about loosing ESPN & ESPN2 but I'm crossing my fingures and toes that those won't be brought in I really don't want to lose TNTHD because that provides a large part of my Summer entertainment. Then there is also Major League Baseball, so yes, I have some concerns.


I also believe that somehow TiVo is going to figure a way to work this out with the cable companies. You know TiVo just as well as I do and I don't see them letting us just getting stuck. Cable companies have said they want to work this out to. So maybe I'm just being an optomistic TiVo Fany Boy, but that's how I see it.


Either way to go back to the SA 8300 wouldn't do any good since that thing plain didn't work. So I'll take what I can from my S3 and hope for the best.


----------



## mnowlin

Well, THIS should be fun...


Was working on the cabling for my living room setup today - when re-connecting the TWC line to my SA8300-HD, I held the SA case in one hand, grabbed the coax shield with the other hand, and got a painless, yet very notable zap.


Time to get out the meters. TWC will blame the power lines, the electrician will blame TWC, and I'm very suspicious that this is the cause of occasional significant HD tiling and why my on-demand services don't work a lot of the time....


Grrrr....


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was working on the cabling for my living room setup today - when re-connecting the TWC line to my SA8300-HD, I held the SA case in one hand, grabbed the coax shield with the other hand, and got a painless, yet very notable zap.
> 
> 
> Time to get out the meters. TWC will blame the power lines, the electrician will blame TWC....



It may turn out that neither one has done anything wrong. It's not at all uncommon to find a voltage difference between the two grounds. How far apart physically are the ground rods for the cable and the AC? You may want to run a ground strap between them.


I would get out the meter and do some testing, though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, THIS should be fun...
> 
> TWC will blame the power lines, the electrician will blame TWC, and I'm very suspicious that this is the cause of occasional significant HD tiling and why my on-demand services don't work a lot of the time....
> 
> 
> Grrrr....




That "tiling" you see is the result of a cheap pos DVR. Once I got my S3 all that stopped.


Glad you're OK.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, THIS should be fun...
> 
> 
> Was working on the cabling for my living room setup today - when re-connecting the TWC line to my SA8300-HD, I held the SA case in one hand, grabbed the coax shield with the other hand, and got a painless, yet very notable zap.
> 
> 
> Time to get out the meters. TWC will blame the power lines, the electrician will blame TWC, and I'm very suspicious that this is the cause of occasional significant HD tiling and why my on-demand services don't work a lot of the time....
> 
> 
> Grrrr....



It is normal to get a slight zap between 2 pieces of equipment. When the cable feed is grounded several hundred feet outside somewhere and your STB is grounded through an outlet tied to the home's ground there will be a slight difference in potential.


From my own experience I had major tiling on my Motorola PVR. Thanks to me my cable co found a couple misadjusted line amps and the signal level in my house was increased slightly. I still had the tiling and when I worked with the cable tech it turned out it was the power strip I was using. I am a firm believer in plugging both my TV and the cable box directly into the wall. I didn't buy a cheap $10 power strip either, it was over 25 bucks. In my broadcast experience, if you have a power problem the first place to look is the power strip.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That "tiling" you see is the result of a cheap pos DVR. Once I got my S3 all that stopped.



On the other hand, some of us don't have a "problem" with that "cheap pos DVR". In fact, it's been flawless for me for 9 months. Never missed a recording, no regular artifacting, etc.


That's not to say that the box is good...frankly it's awful from a usability and flexibility POV when compared to MythTV or Tivo. However, it's been very reliable working side-by-side with my MythTV setup...my SA8300 only handles encrypted QAM HD channels.


From a sampling of people in my area, it seems they also find the SA8300 to work properly and not have fundamental playback/recording problems.


----------



## schandorsky

Hi,

I have been waiting for WNEO HD on my Time Warner Elyria/Mentor cable. A new channel 85.1 popped up on my QAM tuner it has the garbled sound of WNEO. It is being scrambled! I thought TW could not scramble local channels. I receive WUAB HD, WEWS HD, WKYC HD WOIO HD, AND WJW HD (they are not scrambled) with my tv's QAM turner.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been waiting for WNEO HD on my Time Warner Elyria/Mentor cable. A new channel 85.1 popped up on my QAM tuner it has the garbled sound of WNEO. It is being scrambled! I thought TW could not scramble local channels.



It is probably in the process of being configured and tested. Patience, grasshopper.


----------



## hookbill

Well, I hope they do get WNEO soon. WVIZ does not broadcast in Dolby 5.1 and I would love to get some of their concerts in 5.1 sound.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been waiting for WNEO HD on my Time Warner Elyria/Mentor cable. A new channel 85.1 popped up on my QAM tuner it has the garbled sound of WNEO.



This is great news! Thanks for sharing your discovery. I'll have to keep an eye on that.


----------



## Ben Music

KennedyJ,


Are you getting 55-1 OTA?


Ben Music


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been waiting for WNEO HD on my Time Warner Elyria/Mentor cable. A new channel 85.1 popped up on my QAM tuner it has the garbled sound of WNEO. It is being scrambled! I thought TW could not scramble local channels. I receive WUAB HD, WEWS HD, WKYC HD WOIO HD, AND WJW HD (they are not scrambled) with my tv's QAM turner.



Digital signals are not "scrambled" in the same way analog signals are scrambled. If you are getting garbage out, there must be garbage in at the cable head end.


Ditital signals are encrypted. Your clear QAM tuner cannot see the encrypted signals of channels like HBO at all (unless the head end unencrypts them).


BTW: When you say TW Elyria/Mentor are you referring to TW formerly Comcast, originally Continental Cablevision?


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Digital signals are not "scrambled" in the same way analog signals are scrambled. If you are getting garbage out, there must be garbage in at the cable head end.
> 
> 
> Ditital signals are encrypted. Your clear QAM tuner cannot see the encrypted signals of channels like HBO at all (unless the head end unencrypts them).
> 
> 
> BTW: When you say TW Elyria/Mentor are you referring to TW formerly Comcast, originally Continental Cablevision?



First: I sorry I should have used the word Encrypted.

Second: Starting about a month ago all the encypted channels have a garble audio only, no picture. Which makes it a chore, because every time I scan for channels it picks up all the encrypted ones too. Then I have to delete a couple hundred channels that have no video.

Third: Yes it is the former Comcast, Continental.


----------



## schandorsky

By the way, does anyone with Time Warner in the Elyria/Mentor Area with a cablecard or box pickup channel 215(WNEO).


----------



## Rbuchina

I was flipping around last night after 11PM and found TWC in Mentor has added WVIZHD. It was between WUAB and DIscovery HD. Anyone else notice it?


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was flipping around last night after 11PM and found TWC in Mentor has added WVIZHD. It was between WUAB and DIscovery HD. Anyone else notice it?
> 
> 
> Ray




We've had WVIZHD now for two years over here in Geauga County. This is new for you?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

for Cox cable subscribers, I called yesterday and asked if they weer adding any channels to keep up with Dish and DirecTv.


I got the answer I expected: "we have heard that we are adding channels this fall but I do not know any specific channels or how many there will be"


bummer.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> We've had WVIZHD now for two years over here in Geauga County. This is new for you?



Yes. We are the lowest of low class for TWC in Mentor.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> KennedyJ,
> 
> 
> Are you getting 55-1 OTA?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Yes. I can pull in 55-1 at 78% on both the Tivo S3 and Tivo HD. I had a problem with it early on, but I think I did a new OTA channel scan and that fixed the problem. Are you struggling with signal lock, or just getting nothing?


----------



## Ben Music

Jason,


I don't get any signal at all on 55-1. I do get a grainy picture on analog 55. I do get 49-1 & 49-2 (WEAO-DT) with a slight turn of the ant rotor. I see that TWC has added WVIZ-HD (ch-25) to our line up on channel 214. I also noticed that they added ch-224 to the line up on the S-3. It's called HD Showcase On Demand, but it doesn't seem to have any signal yet. It also doesn't show up in the Moto cable box guide yet. I wonder what thats going to be all about.


Ben Music


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Jason,
> 
> 
> I don't get any signal at all on 55-1. I do get a grainy picture on analog 55. I do get 49-1 & 49-2 (WEAO-DT) with a slight turn of the ant rotor. I see that TWC has added WVIZ-HD (ch-25) to our line up on channel 214. I also noticed that they added ch-224 to the line up on the S-3. It's called HD Showcase On Demand, but it doesn't seem to have any signal yet. It also doesn't show up in the Moto cable box guide yet. I wonder what thats going to be all about.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



That sure is strange as we don't live all that far apart. Have you tried to re-run the OTA channel scan? I can't explain how that helped me, but I think that's what did the trick.


I don't have a rotor on the antenna. I just have it aimed towards Parma and can reliably pickup all the locals. I get nothing at all for WEAO.


Regarding the new channel additions, unfortunately I cannot enjoy them. TWC billing really pissed me off over some bogus cablecard charges and I ended up dropping the digital package over the dispute.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Regarding the new channel additions, unfortunately I cannot enjoy them. TWC billing really pissed me off over some bogus cablecard charges and I ended up dropping the digital package over the dispute.



You know they tried the same thing with me. They were charging me for additional receivers saying that was my cable cards. I called the person I knew in head end and she had a "customer resolution specialist" take care of it. Fixed all my pricing and my bill went from 192.00 to 168.00 per month, including high speed internet.


Next month it will be cheaper because I just made my final payment for MLB so it will come down another 39 bucks.


----------



## Ben Music

Jason,


I too had cable card problems. It took them 3 trips before a tech was finally able to get both cards working. No functional problems since. As far as billing goes, they have been all over the map. On the first bill since the install, they they tried to charge me for 2 additional converter boxes and 2 extra remotes instead of just 2 cable cards. After an hour on the phone they finally gave me credit for the boxes and remotes that were never installed, and added two cards @ $2.50 each.


What they never tell you up front is they also charge an extra $2.00 for digital service on each card. The same as if you got 2 xtra boxes.


By the way, I did a new scan on the S-3, several times in fact, but no help for 55-1. Still no signal on cable, S-3, or Sat box.


Ben Music


----------



## Michael P 2341

Ben, you do know that 55-1 is actually on rf ch 30?


If your reception of analog 55 is grainy than your antenna is not aimed correctly.

Despite WBNX being licensed to Akron, their transmitter site is the farthest north of all the Cleveland sticks (right next to WOIO and 2 sticks down from WKYC). If you are aiming farther south for Akron that may be why you are having problems.


----------



## Ben Music

Hey Hook,


You and I must of had the same CSR working on our bills.


Also, back in June I received a letter from TWC, signed by Stephen R Fry (President of NEO Divison of TWC) that showed price changes effective on

July 1, 2007. It showed that the expanded basic would increase (no surprise here)

from $37.52 to $40.02. The same price list shows cable cards effective 7/1/07 @$1.75 each. I showed the letter to the CSR's at my Elyria TWC office and no one there knows anything about it or who to contact. What an outfit. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Hook,
> 
> 
> You and I must of had the same CSR working on our bills.
> 
> 
> Also, back in June I received a letter from TWC, signed by Stephen R Fry (President of NEO Divison of TWC) that showed price changes effective on
> 
> July 1, 2007. It showed that the expanded basic would increase (no surprise here)
> 
> from $37.52 to $40.02. The same price list shows cable cards effective 7/1/07 @$1.75 each. I showed the letter to the CSR's at my Elyria TWC office and no one there knows anything about it or who to contact. What an outfit. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



The letter I got on cable card prices said 3.00 for the first and 5.00 for the second. What they are actually charging me now is 2.50 each.










Oh and they are not suppose to charge you for "additional digital outlet" per card. That I know for a fact.


----------



## KennedyJ

I had been running perfectly fine for two months with dual cable cards in my S3. Suddenly, the Cablecard in slot two stopped receiving digital signals so I had a tech come out. He worked with someone on the phone to troubleshoot the problem. They said that there was something wrong with how my account was setup and that they'd have me up and running shortly. After a few hits of the card, everything looked good and I sent the tech on his way. A few weeks later my bill comes and it is $20 bucks higher than the previous two months. A bunch of Digital Outlet and Digital Access fees had been added. My DVR service fee even increased $5. And ALL of these account changes occurred on the day that I had the tech out to my house. I spent two hours on the phone with TWC trying to get things straightened out to no avail.


I had spent a great deal of time negotiating an upgrade price on Digital cable a few months ago. The pricing I agreed to was promised to me for one year. Then along comes Super CableCard Tech who in one stroke reverses everything to Fix the problem. Terrible, terrible service. So now it's analog and OTA for me


----------



## Smarty-pants

*FYI*

Ok, here in Canton / N.Canton 44721, I am now receiving WVIZ-HD via QAM on channel 123-1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had been running perfectly fine for two months with dual cable cards in my S3. Suddenly, the Cablecard in slot two stopped receiving digital signals so I had a tech come out. He worked with someone on the phone to troubleshoot the problem. They said that there was something wrong with how my account was setup and that they'd have me up and running shortly. After a few hits of the card, everything looked good and I sent the tech on his way. A few weeks later my bill comes and it is $20 bucks higher than the previous two months. A bunch of Digital Outlet and Digital Access fees had been added. My DVR service fee even increased $5. And ALL of these account changes occurred on the day that I had the tech out to my house. I spent two hours on the phone with TWC trying to get things straightened out to no avail.
> 
> 
> I had spent a great deal of time negotiating an upgrade price on Digital cable a few months ago. The pricing I agreed to was promised to me for one year. Then along comes Super CableCard Tech who in one stroke reverses everything to Fix the problem. Terrible, terrible service. So now it's analog and OTA for me



The problem is that Time Warner people don't understand their own billing system in relationship to ex Adelphia and Comcast customers. I had a thread I did a while back detailing all my troubles with this until I finally called the lady I know at head end. Then she got in touch with a Supervisor who took my account to the account specialist and he finally straightened everything out. For two days I was not getting some channels, then they would fix that and other channels diappeared. It was a nightmare. Had I not known someone in head end I don't think it ever would have been resolved.


Oh and this problem was started with one of their HD STB's. Basically, my S3 did OK through most of the problems except when I lost all my digital channels.


They kept telling me my HD STB was a DVR.







Idiots.


----------



## Argee

Is anyone having problems with WKYC HD tonight? On MY direcTV system the channel disappeared earlier today. I have all the other HD locals and WKYC SD.


----------



## TLaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone having problems with WKYC HD tonight? On MY direcTV system the channel disappeared earlier today. I have all the other HD locals and WKYC SD.



OK here as of 9:00pm


----------



## Lighting Guy

Been ok here too but I'm getting it via QAM


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is anyone having problems with WKYC HD tonight? On MY direcTV system the channel disappeared earlier today. I have all the other HD locals and WKYC SD.



Yes! The first half of "The Office" was just not there at all. The half that was recorded was all pixelated and practically unwatchable. \\


I tried watching WKYC later in the evening (live) and the same pixelation and artifacts were present. I'll have to check my recording of The Tonight Show to see if it was still happening after I fell asleep.


I was watching via Directv's MPEG-4 feed. I tried to get WKYC OTA but was unable to lock onto 3-1. For some reason, 3-2 (weather) was coming in just fine.


----------



## [email protected]

Hello fellow NE Ohio neighbors. I recently move out to Sheffield Village and wan considering putting up an antenna in the attic. I was considering the SquareShooter to receive OTA. Anyone have experience with this antenna on the west side? Any suggestions? I have a lot of space so there really is not restrictions except putting it outside.

http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm


----------



## extremegamer

Anyone sign up for AT&T U-Verse? Got tired of dealing with Time Warner, didn't feel like shelling out $400 to get Direct TV, and Dish doesn't have locals in HD. U-Verse has a ton of HD channels, and a bunch of channels that my TWC doesn't carry, example NFL Network, ESPN U, and my wife wants Soapnet (which the Adelphia and TWC people have, but not the former Comcast TWC people like me).


Any impressions? I'm really thinking about making the switch.


----------



## terryfoster

It is my understanding that you can only have one HD stream at a time (which should translate to a single HD tuner DVR). I've also heard the PQ is pretty lousy, but I've never seen it for myself so don't take my word for it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone sign up for AT&T U-Verse? Got tired of dealing with Time Warner, didn't feel like shelling out $400 to get Direct TV, and Dish doesn't have locals in HD. U-Verse has a ton of HD channels, and a bunch of channels that my TWC doesn't carry, example NFL Network, ESPN U, and my wife wants Soapnet (which the Adelphia and TWC people have, but not the former Comcast TWC people like me).
> 
> 
> Any impressions? I'm really thinking about making the switch.



I agree with Terry, I really haven't heard anything good about U-Verse. Also anything that we have (Adelphia) you will get eventually.


----------



## hookbill

To try to keep this on topic this Friday night try and look for me during the Yankees/Indians game. I'll be rooting against the Evil Empire and I'll be sitting in the Loge section where all the food and soft drinks are free. My wife just got tickets from her company.


OK, nobody knows what I look like and I'm just bragging. Still this should be fun.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with Terry, I really haven't heard anything good about U-Verse. Also anything that we have (Adelphia) you will get eventually.



I understand that, but the switch was made about a year ago. We've gained nothing and lost channels. I can live without NFL Network, but I know my wife would love Soapnet (sad that it's the main channel I need and TWC can't give it to me). Not to mention my boxes suck, we don't even get On Demand really anymore because according to the CSR "TWC doesn't support the Motorola DVR boxes anymore". Well, great, can I get the updated boxes? I was told not till later in the year or early next year.


The former Comcast people are treated like crap from TWC and I've grown very tired of it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand that, but the switch was made about a year ago. We've gained nothing and lost channels. I can live without NFL Network, but I know my wife would love Soapnet (sad that it's the main channel I need and TWC can't give it to me). Not to mention my boxes suck, we don't even get On Demand really anymore because according to the CSR "TWC doesn't support the Motorola DVR boxes anymore". Well, great, can I get the updated boxes? I was told not till later in the year or early next year.
> 
> 
> The former Comcast people are treated like crap from TWC and I've grown very tired of it.




Really? Didn't you just get ESPN 2 and UHD? Also I understand you just got WVIZ-HD.


Well, give it a try and let us know how it works. I saw they had all kinds of packages for all kinds of different prices.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really? Didn't you just get ESPN 2 and UHD? Also I understand you just got WVIZ-HD.
> 
> 
> Well, give it a try and let us know how it works. I saw they had all kinds of packages for all kinds of different prices.



Yeah, I guess I'm just frustrated after being told my boxes are out of date and they aren't supporting them. We have gained ESPN2 HD, UHD, but still lacking channels that former Adelphia people have currently.


It just seems like they could care less about our little area, and took care of the Adelphia people right away. Our bills are even more expensive than Adelphia people.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hey is anyone actually receiving WUAB-HD though TW yet? I was wondering why I'm now receiving WVIZ-HD but WUAB-HD is still nowhere to be found via QAM at least.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey is anyone actually receiving WUAB-HD though TW yet? I was wondering why I'm now receiving WVIZ-HD but WUAB-HD is still nowhere to be found via QAM at least.



I've been receiving WUAB-HD since the first day TW took over. You mean you can't receive it at all?


----------



## extremegamer

Ok, I called and went off on TWC. They are sending out 2 of the new boxes (whatever those are) tomorrow. I'm assuming the SA 8300, but trust me, anything is better than those POS Motorola DVR's.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been receiving WUAB-HD since the first day TW took over. You mean you can't receive it at all?



No, Not via QAM. I get it on SD channel 4, but can't find it in HD. WVIZ-HD just showed up yesterday.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, I called and went off on TWC. They are sending out 2 of the new boxes (whatever those are) tomorrow. I'm assuming the SA 8300, but trust me, anything is better than those POS Motorola DVR's.



Good for you







. TW customer service sucks and the only way to get anything done is to stand up for your rights. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!









Good luck.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, I called and went off on TWC. They are sending out 2 of the new boxes (whatever those are) tomorrow. I'm assuming the SA 8300, but trust me, anything is better than those POS Motorola DVR's.



I just wonder if it might be the SA 8300 HDC Those are the ones with cable cards in them. Haven't heard of anyone in our area getting them yet but I know that supply of the SA 8300 is low or none existent at this point and I think they got a shipment in recently.


I wouldn't bet the house you'll like it any better then your Moto box. But to be fair I've heard good stories about the Moto box just like I hear good stories about the SA 8300. Read my sig and you'll know how I feel about them.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just wonder if it might be the SA 8300 HDC Those are the ones with cable cards in them. Haven't heard of anyone in our area getting them yet but I know that supply of the SA 8300 is low or none existent at this point and I think they got a shipment in recently.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bet the house you'll like it any better then your Moto box. But to be fair I've heard good stories about the Moto box just like I hear good stories about the SA 8300. Read my sig and you'll know how I feel about them.



She said it has a cable card in it, and they just got them in. I've never used the SA box, we've always had the Moto's.


In 4 years of having Comcast and TWC Moto's....we have always had 2 HD-DVR's. Our living room has had 18, yes, 18 boxes. Family room is on box #7.


Most common problem is it stops recording. It'll say it recorded the show, you get the first minute, then if fast forwards to the last minute, recording over. We had that happen on 16 of the 25 boxes. The other 7 issues (2 boxes still work that we have now) have been anywhere from it just not turning on anymore, to it recording everything pixelated.


So yes, anything, even a VCR is better at this point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Most common problem is it stops recording. It'll say it recorded the show, you get the first minute, then if fast forwards to the last minute, recording over. We had that happen on 16 of the 25 boxes. The other 7 issues (2 boxes still work that we have now) have been anywhere from it just not turning on anymore, to it recording everything pixelated.
> 
> 
> So yes, anything, even a VCR is better at this point.



Well, the most common problem I had with the SA 8300 was partial recordings as well. It would say it was recording, the light was on, but when you went to play back you may have only 20 minutes recorded. This happened at least 3 times a week.


That's why I got the TiVo S3. Now I'm not saying you should purchase one too, matter of fact if you do consider purchasing another DVR I recommend the new TiVo HD which has a msrp of 299.00.


You can always get a HD STB if you want On Demand.


----------



## rlockshin

Anyone else having trouble with 49-1 and 2

I cant get on 3 different devices


----------



## paule123

According to hdsportsguide.com, it would appear the Browns first preseason game at home vs. the Chiefs on WKYC will be in HD ! Mark your calendars for Saturday August 11.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to hdsportsguide.com, it would appear the Browns first preseason game at home vs. the Chiefs on WKYC will be in HD ! Mark your calendars for Saturday August 11.



Look dude. My Dodgers are fighting for their division. The Tribe is also tyring to win a spot in the playoffs. Since when does a preseason football game with a team that still doesn't have much potential deserve a mark on the calendar.


Football starts 9/12 and I really give the best wishes to the Browns and also my Oakland Raiders. But for right now we've got bigger fish to fry.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To try to keep this on topic this Friday night try and look for me during the Yankees/Indians game. I'll be rooting against the Evil Empire and I'll be sitting in the Loge section where all the food and soft drinks are free. My wife just got tickets from her company.
> 
> 
> OK, nobody knows what I look like and I'm just bragging. Still this should be fun.



Just bring one of your parrots on your shoulder









Is that a picture of you on your avatar (yes I know there are no avatars now, but I do remember seeing one in the past associated with your posts)?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand that, but the switch was made about a year ago. We've gained nothing and lost channels. I can live without NFL Network, but I know my wife would love Soapnet (sad that it's the main channel I need and TWC can't give it to me). Not to mention my boxes suck, we don't even get On Demand really anymore because according to the CSR "TWC doesn't support the Motorola DVR boxes anymore". Well, great, can I get the updated boxes? I was told not till later in the year or early next year.
> 
> 
> The former Comcast people are treated like crap from TWC and I've grown very tired of it.



I get both of those channels now on the middle tier of E* (I think they call it Top-200 now, the number keeps growing).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello fellow NE Ohio neighbors. I recently move out to Sheffield Village and wan considering putting up an antenna in the attic. I was considering the SquareShooter to receive OTA. Anyone have experience with this antenna on the west side? Any suggestions? I have a lot of space so there really is not restrictions except putting it outside.
> 
> http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm



Attac installations are subject to interference from anything ferrous (aluminum foil on insulation for example). It's worse for indoor antennas, especially if you have aluminum siding.


The higher you can get the antenna the better. Trees will mess with the signals, so a good omni on a tall pole works well. Even tough the antenna may be omni or bi-directional you still need to do some tweaking for the "sweet spot" where all the channels come in the best.


It's actually easier to set it up using the analog signals, since digital is either perfect or nothing. With a digital signal you may think it's coming in perfectly, only to find out later that you get dropouts in the signal. Watching the analog would have revealed ghosts that are the kiss of death to digital (multipath causes ghosts on analog and dropouts on digital).


If you know which channel is the weakest try to get the best signal possible on that channel and hope the stronger signals are not adversely affected when the antenna is tweaked for the weakest signal.


DO NOT USE AN AMPLIFIED ANTENNA unless you are in the deep fringe areas (no strong signals in the area). It only takes one strong signal to overload the amp.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just bring one of your parrots on your shoulder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a picture of you on your avatar (yes I know there are no avatars now, but I do remember seeing one in the past associated with your posts)?



There is a picture of me over on the TiVo forum, but quite honestly it makes me look younger and thinner then I am.










As far as the bird idea goes I might have tried that about 10 years ago when I use to take a few of my birds out with me but now everyone stays inside all the time and I think they would freak out at a ball park (going, going, GONE!)










Just for an interest point I will tell you that when I drove from California to Kentucky my Sun Conure Sunny did ride on my shoulder the entire trip out (3 days). It made it real intersting when she got bored and decided to climb on my glasses while I was driving 65 mph. Toll boths were fun too, something a little different for them they always had questions.


----------



## extremegamer

Well, Time Warner showed up, and refused to give me a SA box. Saying that until my Motorola boxes die, they only give them to new customers and he's not allowed to give them to anyone else. I told him I'm about to switch to AT&T U-Verse, and this is his response "I would, it keeps getting worse and worse here, don't ever expect NFL Network with TWC". My wife's jaw dropped to the floor.


The single feed of HD with U-Verse scares me, so I'm looking at Direct TV, just hate paying the start up costs that comes with it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, Time Warner showed up, and refused to give me a SA box. Saying that until my Motorola boxes die, they only give them to new customers and he's not allowed to give them to anyone else. I told him I'm about to switch to AT&T U-Verse, and this is his response "I would, it keeps getting worse and worse here, don't ever expect NFL Network with TWC". My wife's jaw dropped to the floor.
> 
> 
> The single feed of HD with U-Verse scares me, so I'm looking at Direct TV, just hate paying the start up costs that comes with it.



Unbe**ckinglievable!


Here's what I would do. I'd drive down to the local office, box in hand and tell them either give me a new box or I will cancel my account and go to U-Verse. That tech was totally out of line with that response. Specially since the rep told you you would get new boxes!


Another thing, did you sign the paper work? I hope you didn't, I've sent them on their way when I wasn't satisfied. Usually results in a supervisor calling.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Toll boths were fun too, something a little different for them they always had questions.



The birds had questions about the toll booths? What did they want to know?


----------



## jdmojo2006

*I live in Lisbon and have TWC. I know this is a Cleveland Board but I thought I would share


in order:
89-1: My Y TV (WYTV's Subchannel for My Network TV)

89-2: WYFX HD (Youngstown FOX)

89-3: WYTV HD (Youngstown ABC)

90-1: Music Choice Opera

90-2: Music Choice Pop Latino

94-1: WPGH SD (Pittsburgh FOX)

94-2: WYTV SD (Youngstown ABC)

101-1: WUAB HD: (Cleveland MYT) this is Youngstown DMA feed do to that they black out some of the syd shows


101-2 WKYC Weather Plus

101-3 WKYC HD (Cleveland NBC)

102-1 WFMJ HD (Youngstown NBC)

102-2 WKBN HD (Youngstown CBS)

104-1 WJW HD (Cleveland FOX)

104-2 WOIO Weather Now

104-3 WEWS HD (Cleveland ABC)

107-1 Game Show Network SD

108-1 WOIO HD (Cleveland CBS)

108-2 WUAB HD Cleveland MYT) The non black out feed for Cleveland DMA

108-3 The Tube Music Network

110-1 LFC

123-1 WVIZ HD (Cleveland PBS) Just showed as of 8/4/07 on my scan

123-2 WIVN LP Canton

124-1 On Demand Preview

124-2 Digital Cable Preview with no SOUND

124-3 Previews

124-4 On Demand Previews*


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unbe**ckinglievable!
> 
> 
> Here's what I would do. I'd drive down to the local office, box in hand and tell them either give me a new box or I will cancel my account and go to U-Verse. That tech was totally out of line with that response. Specially since the rep told you you would get new boxes!
> 
> 
> Another thing, did you sign the paper work? I hope you didn't, I've sent them on their way when I wasn't satisfied. Usually results in a supervisor calling.



Nope, I refused to sign them. Called U-Verse, and they are coming for the install on the 14th. I called TWC to let them know about the installer and their track record, the lady could have cared less. So once the U-Verse is in, that day I'll take my 2 DVR's, cable modem, and my $120 cable bill up to their office and drop it on their doorstep with my cancel notice.


At least now my wife will have Soapnet, I'll have NFL Network HD, as well as about 11 other HD channels I currently don't have National Geographic HD, HD Net, HD Net movies, etc. Actually pretty excited for the change. My neighbor had it installed this morning, just came back from checking it out, and it's pretty nice. I couldn't notice any signal change in his HD locals and mine. ESPN U was cool to see, as I've never had that one either. The non digital channels killed in quality from what I was getting from TWC, also the internet speeds, upload at least, was a lot higher than TWC's. Overall, I think I'll be happy to get out from under TWC.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdmojo2006* /forum/post/0
> 
> *I live in Lisbon and have TWC. I know this is a Cleveland Board but I thought I would share
> 
> 
> in order:
> 
> 110-1 LFC
> 
> 123-1 WVIZ HD (Cleveland PBS) Just showed as of 8/4/07 on my scan
> 
> 123-2 WIVN LP Canton*


























How in the world can TWC get WVIZ-HD out to Lisbon when the OTA signal can barely cover Parma?

Ditto for WIVN LP (except put "Canton" in place of "Parma").


----------



## Michael P 2341

With the addition of WVIZ-HD to cable systems far and wide, I wondered if WVIZ-DT had finally moved to it's permanent home atop the WNCX tower in North Royalton.


I went to the WVIZ web page but found no announcements. I clicked on "Digital TV" and found this tidbit:


> Quote:
> Q: Where is WVIZ/PBS's digital transmitter located?
> 
> A: WVIZ/PBS's digital transmitter is temporarily installed at its studio location on Brookpark road. It is currently operating at low power meaning that some areas will have difficulty receiving WVIZ-DT over the air. Transmitting tower issues at the main transmitter site in North Royalton need to be resolved before a permanent, full power DTV transmission system can be installed at that location. WVIZ/PBS continues to pursue the resolution of its tower issues and *hopes to build its permanent transmission plant in Spring/Summer of 2007.*



I'm gonna have to try to rescan rf 26 to see if the signal is any stronger.


----------



## Michael P 2341

This brings up another question:

Will the HD side of WVIZ and WNEO/WEAO ever differentiate? I mean why should TWC in Lisbon go through the trouble of importing WVIZ-HD when WNEO-HD is much closer, stronger and (currently, anyway) carries the exact same feed 24/7?


This would almost be as useless as a cable system carrying a separate feed of WNEO and WEAO just because the 2 signals overlap.


I can see why the analog/SD feeds of WVIZ and WNEO/WEAO would be carried since their schedules diversify quite a bit from each other, but so far that has not beenthe case with PBS-HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How in the world can TWC get WVIZ-HD out to Lisbon when the OTA signal can barely cover Parma?
> 
> Ditto for WIVN LP (except put "Canton" in place of "Parma").



Fiber transport.


----------



## jdmojo2006




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fiber transport.



Right now TWC only carries WJW and WUAB HD/SD feeds on my system cause of WJW being sig viewed and WUAB is grandfathered in our system...



I like that I can get WKYC and WEWS to watch them in HD... I would rather watch WJW and WKYC cause they have a good HD product.


As for WVIZ TWC picks up and send via clear to all areas. One time I heard that WTOV Steubenville was in clear in Canton area on TWC


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fiber transport.



That's what I was gonna say. Once they pick up the signal in Brookpark, they can feed it to all the other headends through their internal hardwired network, no ?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's what I was gonna say. Once they pick up the signal in Brookpark, they can feed it to all the other headends through their internal hardwired network, no ?



Yes, photons can travel farther than electrons.


----------



## MarkyM




hookbill said:


> I just wonder if it might be the SA 8300 HDC Those are the ones with cable cards in them. Haven't heard of anyone in our area getting them yet but I know that supply of the SA 8300 is low or none existent at this point and I think they got a shipment in recently.
> 
> 
> I can confirm that it is the 8300HDC.
> 
> 
> New install yesterday.
> 
> 
> HDMI output working flawlessly so far.
> 
> 
> --M--


----------



## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello fellow NE Ohio neighbors. I recently move out to Sheffield Village and wan considering putting up an antenna in the attic. I was considering the SquareShooter to receive OTA. Anyone have experience with this antenna on the west side? Any suggestions? I have a lot of space so there really is not restrictions except putting it outside.
> 
> http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm




I don't use an antenna but reception is usually good around here. Wish I could help! Anyways, hope you enjoy living here. People say the cops like to give out lots of speeding tickets but I don't seem to have a problem - figure I help pay their wages so they leave me alone.


----------



## JJkizak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian81* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't use an antenna but reception is usually good around here. Wish I could help! Anyways, hope you enjoy living here. People say the cops like to give out lots of speeding tickets but I don't seem to have a problem - figure I help pay their wages so they leave me alone.



[email protected]:

Don't "skimp" on size or price. Get the best stuff you can get including the cable and splitters. You can't have enough signal from the antenna for HDTV. Nut then again I haven't had any channels over 98% in Twinsburg.

JJK


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to hdsportsguide.com, it would appear the Browns first preseason game at home vs. the Chiefs on WKYC will be in HD ! Mark your calendars for Saturday August 11.



FYI, WKYC Programming Dept just emailed me back and said all the Browns preseason games will be in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, WKYC Programming Dept just emailed me back and said all the Browns preseason games will be in HD.



The question is....does anybody really want to watch this in HD?










Hey guys I've go no room to talk. I'm a Raider fan. but at least we did get to the Super Bowl once in the 21st Century.


----------



## Rbuchina

It's good to hear all the "Pre-Season" games are in HD. Let's see where the Cleveland market stands when looking for regular season games in HD.


Ray


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's good to hear all the "Pre-Season" games are in HD. Let's see where the Cleveland market stands when looking for regular season games in HD.
> 
> 
> Ray



CBS said they are going to do more than the typical 3 games a week in HD this year, so we can hope










Link to "CBS up to 6 games a week in HD in 2007" :
http://www.tvpredictions.com/cbshd042307.htm 


Link to WKYC press release regarding Browns preseason in HD:
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_articl...?storyid=66273


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ok, now here in Canton, I've got WNEO/WEAO HD on TW via QAM channel 101.3


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok, now here in Canton, I've got WNEO/WEAO HD on TW via QAM channel 101.3



My S3 has had a spot on the guide, channel 715 WNEO from the day I first got it. However when I tune to it I get a message "channel not available." When I press the info key however it does have guide data.


Checking my upstairs HD STB I do not see it on the guide yet.


----------



## jdmojo2006

This evening when I got home I noticed that WUAB on TWC Channel 6 and the HD feed is gone on. The text on screen say's "WUAB 43 is no longer avab in your area to view My Network TV programming tune to Ch 534 or 734.


There wasn't any kind of notice in our local papers saying on this date WUAB will no longer carried. I thought they have to give 30 Days Notice..


I am also getting WNEO HD on Ch 549 and WNEO DT on Channel 550


101-1 Is NOW WNEO HD

101-4 IS NOW WNEO DT

123-1 IS WVIZ HD


I am still getting WUAB in the Clear on 108-2

TUBE is still on Ch 545 and 108-3


----------



## mnowlin

Hmm,


Still have TWC WUAB on 6 and WUAB HD on 544 here in Akron. Also see they added WNEO HD on 549 and WNEO DT on 550 - don't remember seeing those yesterday.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmm,
> 
> 
> Still have TWC WUAB on 6 and WUAB HD on 544 here in Akron. Also see they added WNEO HD on 549 and WNEO DT on 550 - don't remember seeing those yesterday.



Of course you still have WUAB - Akron is in the Cleveland DMA - Youngstown is not. Youngstown has it's own My Network TV affiliate (a digital - only subchannel 33.2 on their ABC affiliate WYTV-DT). BTW they also have a CW affiliate as a subchannel of their NBC affiliate WFMJ-DT 21.2). These subchannels even have thier own identities "My Y TV" and "WBCB". BTW they even have a FOX subchannel on their CBS affiliate WKBN-DT 27.2 - that one at least is OTA analog as an LPTV station WYFX-LP.


As long as the DMA has their own affiliate (even if it's digital only) they can bump off the distant signals from cable (unless significantly-viewed status can be established). WUAB was "grandfathered" in Youngstown, other more well established Cleveland stations such as WJW may still have significantly viewed status, however their syndicated programming has to be blacked out if requested by a local station carrying the same program.


----------



## Andrew K

When I tuned into channel 3 this evening to watch the news, their analog transmitter was not operating. Instead, I picked up KIII analog channel 3 from Corpus Christi, Texas. For those who are interested, here is a picture...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../KIII-3002.jpg


----------



## SuperAmmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When I tuned into channel 3 this evening to watch the news, their analog transmitter was not operating. Instead, I picked up KIII analog channel 3 from Corpus Christi, Texas. For those who are interested, here is a picture...
> 
> http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../KIII-3002.jpg



Wow strong antenna.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When I tuned into channel 3 this evening to watch the news, their analog transmitter was not operating. Instead, I picked up KIII analog channel 3 from Corpus Christi, Texas.



Congrats! That's a nice DX catch.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attac (sic) installations are subject to interference from anything ferrous (aluminum foil on insulation for example). It's worse for indoor antennas, especially if you have aluminum siding.



You're a little confused here, Michael. Something that is ferrous (like steel) must contain iron. Aluminum and copper, for example, are nonferrous metals.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DO NOT USE AN AMPLIFIED ANTENNA unless you are in the deep fringe areas (no strong signals in the area). It only takes one strong signal to overload the amp.



This isn't necessarily true. The quality of the amplifier is important. I use a Channel Master 7777 mast mounted amplifier in my antenna system, and I am three miles from WNEO's transmitter. The mast mounted amplifier is absolutely necessary for me to pick up the Cleveland and Pittsburgh digital stations. The amplifier is not overloading; however, its output is too strong for the front end of my ViP 622 receiver. Depending on the station, I use anywhere from 8 to 12 dB of attenuation between the amp's power supply output and the 622's input to reduce the level of the signal. I receive more stations by reducing the level of the signal at the receiver's input.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> You're a little confused here, Michael. Something that is ferrous (like steel) must contain iron. Aluminum and copper, for example, are nonferrous metals.



Aluminum may be nonferrous, but it sure screws up my reception. I can see the towers out my back doors & windows, if I put up any indoor antenna by a wall I get garbage, however place the indoor antenna by a window facing the transmitters and I get great reception.


You would think being in the antenna farm that the walls would not attenuate (and distort) the signals as much as they do, but they do have a profound affect on my reception.


This is why I caution the use of amplifiers:

Were I used to live (only 2.5 miles from here) I had an amplified omnidirectional antenna on my roof. I had to unplug the power adder, otherwise I got fuzzy copies of VHF stations on the UHF band and visa-versa. I also heard FM stations (even with the FM trap).


----------



## mavtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course you still have WUAB - Akron is in the Cleveland DMA - Youngstown is not. Youngstown has it's own My Network TV affiliate (a digital - only subchannel 33.2 on their ABC affiliate WYTV-DT). BTW they also have a CW affiliate as a subchannel of their NBC affiliate WFMJ-DT 21.2). These subchannels even have thier own identities "My Y TV" and "WBCB". BTW they even have a FOX subchannel on their CBS affiliate WKBN-DT 27.2 - that one at least is OTA analog as an LPTV station WYFX-LP.
> 
> 
> As long as the DMA has their own affiliate (even if it's digital only) they can bump off the distant signals from cable (unless significantly-viewed status can be established). WUAB was "grandfathered" in Youngstown, other more well established Cleveland stations such as WJW may still have significantly viewed status, however their syndicated programming has to be blacked out if requested by a local station carrying the same program.



For Youngstown/Mahoning county, both WUAB and WOIO have significantly-viewed status. WUAB was grandfathered in and WOIO earned it from their days as being a FOX affiliate that was carried on cable in Youngstown since Youngstown did not have a local FOX station . I do believe that Time Warner in the city itself still has both WOIO (ch 10) and WUAB (ch 6) on the basic tier.


Armstrong cable that serves the population base of Mahoning county (Austintown,Boardman,Canfield,Campell) dropped WOIO for FOXNet satelite network, then WJW which they dropped for the FOXNet again and they replaced it with WYFX in 1998.


After the big switch of 1994, WYTV took FOX on as a secondary affiliate airing NFL football and a select amount of primetime shows (Melrose Place, X files, COPS, and Power Rangers) while on cable the now defunct FOXNet was on local cable systems. BY 1997, all that was left was the football and the next year, WYFX/62 and WFXI/40 signed on.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdmojo2006* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now TWC only carries WJW and WUAB HD/SD feeds on my system cause of WJW being sig viewed and WUAB is grandfathered in our system...
> 
> 
> 
> I like that I can get WKYC and WEWS to watch them in HD... I would rather watch WJW and WKYC cause they have a good HD product.
> 
> 
> As for WVIZ TWC picks up and send via clear to all areas. One time I heard that WTOV-9 Steubenville was in clear in Canton area on TWC



I havent checked recently, but I mentioned awhile back getting WTOV Steubenvulle on Channel 94-2 in Canton, I also get WYFX Youngstown on 94-9 and WTVG-13 (ABC) Toledo on 100-1


----------



## HD MM

Ok, thinking about switching to D*. Local NE Ohio D* subs please help me out.....


I noticed the RSN's (FSN-OH and STO-HD) are listed in the D*'s Sport's Pack on their web site. I guess I just assumed that by subscribing to the Plus HD package that I would get my local RSN's in HD. Can anyone confirm that I would have to additionally subscribe to the Sport's Pack for an additional ($12?) a month fee on top of the standard Plus HD package in order to get these 2 channels?


What about NFL Network- HD? D* currently has that channel as part of the Plus HD package, right? Or is it part of the channels rumored to be added in September?


Their website is worthless, so I figured I'd ask local subscribers themselves.


Thanks in advance for your help........


----------



## jtscherne

Right now, the only thing D* offers are the actual HD games shown on each channel (Indians, Cavs, etc). NFL Network is supposed to go full time HD on D* in September. I don't think STO or FSN have any other HD content other than the games, so they might not. There is no additional charge to get these channels as part of your local package. The sports package only gets you the other RSNs, but most games (MLB, NBA, etc.) are blacked out.


This link contains a great deal of useful information about what's about to happen:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235 


Hope this helps.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now, the only thing D* offers are the actual HD games shown on each channel (Indians, Cavs, etc). NFL Network is supposed to go full time HD on D* in September. I don't think STO or FSN have any other HD content other than the games, so they might not. There is no additional charge to get these channels as part of your local package. The sports package only gets you the other RSNs, but most games (MLB, NBA, etc.) are blacked out.
> 
> 
> This link contains a great deal of useful information about what's about to happen:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



It helps a great deal. That's a lot for your help neighbor......


----------



## schandorsky

I need some advice from you fellows.

I have Time Warner cable in the Elyria/Mentor area and own a Sony KDF50WE655, a LCD 50 inch rear projection TV.

What gives the better picture quality, a cablecard or there Motorola DVR?


----------



## Valnar

An AT&T rep just stopped by my house today (North Royalton) touting the advantages of their Internet + TV solution over my current WOW cable. Now, I'm not one to sign anything immediately without researching, so I politely turned him down and hit these boards. I haven't visited this particular Cleveland thread in awhile (though I'm on AVS daily).


I'm pretty happy with my WOW cable and getting at least the clear channels in QAM is a bonus for me since I use SageTV to record them. Based on the 10 minutes of research I did, it appears AT&T uses a proprietary method of IP transport using MPEG4 compression and it *only* works with their provided PVR's. Is that correct? Any reason to go with these guys over my existing WOW cable? Which, by the way, if I do say so myself, is one of the best cable companies in the country.










I think the biggest problem for me doing any satellite, or this AT&T service, is the loss of recording functionality I currently have with my own server based SageTV solution. Although it looks like my chance of getting any encrypted SD/HD digital to work in the future may require me to throw in the towel and follow the masses.


-Robert


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now, the only thing D* offers are the actual HD games shown on each channel (Indians, Cavs, etc). NFL Network is supposed to go full time HD on D* in September. I don't think STO or FSN have any other HD content other than the games, so they might not. There is no additional charge to get these channels as part of your local package. The sports package only gets you the other RSNs, but most games (MLB, NBA, etc.) are blacked out.
> 
> 
> This link contains a great deal of useful information about what's about to happen:
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



They are saying all 11 Fox Sports Networks go HD this Fall. Presume FS Ohio will have additional HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I need some advice from you fellows.
> 
> I have Time Warner cable in the Elyria/Mentor area and own a Sony KDF50WE655, a LCD 50 inch rear projection TV.
> 
> What gives the better picture quality, a cablecard or there Motorola DVR?



In theory a CableCard will produce a better picture than an external tuner because there are fewer stages of video processing involved. A shorter video path is usually better. Like everything in life though, it's a compromise. CableCard hosts (TV sets) are currently one-way devices, so you lose any functions that require two-way communication with the headend, i.e. program guide, VOD and impulse PPV. Whether that matters to you depends on your own viewing habits.


BTW, the Moto box will eventually be replaced by the SA-8300.


Waiting for Hookbill to jump in and recommend Tivo in 3... 2... 1...


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In theory a CableCard will produce a better picture than an external tuner because there are fewer stages of video processing involved. A shorter video path is usually better. Like everything in life though, it's a compromise. CableCard hosts (TV sets) are currently one-way devices, so you lose any functions that require two-way communication with the headend, i.e. program guide, VOD and impulse PPV. Whether that matters to you depends on your own viewing habits.
> 
> 
> BTW, the Moto box will eventually be replaced by the SA-8300.
> 
> 
> Waiting for Hookbill to jump in and recommend Tivo in 3... 2... 1...



Thanks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Waiting for Hookbill to jump in and recommend Tivo in 3... 2... 1...



Lord knows I hate to disappoint.










Seriously if you are nre to HD and the SA 8300 works fine for you, groovy, enjoy.


However if you get the pos SA 8300's that I hve had, kindly drag them down to your cable company, preferably tied with a chain to your bumper, and return those pos so you can enjoy true DVR the way it was suppose to be.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> An AT&T rep just stopped by my house today (North Royalton) touting the advantages of their Internet + TV solution over my current WOW cable. Now, I'm not one to sign anything immediately without researching, so I politely turned him down and hit these boards. I haven't visited this particular Cleveland thread in awhile (though I'm on AVS daily).
> 
> 
> I'm pretty happy with my WOW cable and getting at least the clear channels in QAM is a bonus for me since I use SageTV to record them. Based on the 10 minutes of research I did, it appears AT&T uses a proprietary method of IP transport using MPEG4 compression and it *only* works with their provided PVR's. Is that correct? Any reason to go with these guys over my existing WOW cable? Which, by the way, if I do say so myself, is one of the best cable companies in the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the biggest problem for me doing any satellite, or this AT&T service, is the loss of recording functionality I currently have with my own server based SageTV solution. Although it looks like my chance of getting any encrypted SD/HD digital to work in the future may require me to throw in the towel and follow the masses.
> 
> 
> -Robert



From a fellow North Royalton resident, the following is the AT&T Uverse forums which are mostly filled by "bitches" about quality, etc.:
http://www.uverseusers.com/ 


I was reading their material until a couple months ago. Main reasons I decided against Uverse was their current HD quality and the fact that their DVR was only capable of recording one program at a time.


I was reading about all options because I knew my HD Tivo would become obsolete in the next year or two (not MPEG4 capable) and I wasn't happy with D*'s HD lite.


After deciding that all other providers had something I didn't want (model of DVR, number of HD channels, bad SD channel quality, etc.), I upgraded to two of D*'s new HR20's despite their bad press.


Actually, I've been very pleased with the HR20s; especially with their MPEG4 HD locals that are equal in quality to my OTA versions of the same channels. I actually believe they are an overall increase in quality over my "loved" HD Tivo. Plus, they are now "rentals" and the initial cost is low.


D* put up another satellite this summer; and starting next month they are adding MPEG4 HD stations which will bring them to over 50. Plus, they say they will have over 100 national HD stations by the end of this year. These will be MPEG4 and all indications they will be excellent quality and not like their current MPEG2 cousins on D*. Another satellite goes up early next year which will give them the capability of up to 150 national HD stations.


I've been with D* for around 8 of the last 11 years. I've complained about their quality for the last 5 years (after I got my first HD set). However, I believe they have turned the corner and that's where I'm staying after 5 months of researching all options.


----------



## Valnar

Thanks for the reply. I'll stick with what I have for now and forget AT&T.


I don't know how good WOW's digital/HD service is since I don't have it yet, but I'm inclined to try it out because I really do need a good Internet service and WOW is rock solid. I'm sure if I ordered AT&T DSL separately (and got D*) it might be just as good, but I'd rather not rock the boat.


Robert


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I'll stick with what I have for now and forget AT&T.
> 
> 
> I don't know how good WOW's digital/HD service is since I don't have it yet, but I'm inclined to try it out because I really do need a good Internet service and WOW is rock solid. I'm sure if I ordered AT&T DSL separately (and got D*) it might be just as good, but I'd rather not rock the boat.
> 
> 
> Robert



I use D* for video; but use TWC/roadrunner for internet broadband; so you would always have the option to continue WOW internet and go to D* for video.


One of the reasons I was interested in AT&T Uverse was that I knew it would be cheaper to use one provider for multiple services. Unfortunately, I didn't believe I would be satisfied with any "one provider" and therefore I'm continuing to split my business and pay a premium.


----------



## hookbill

While I don't support U-Verse myself I would be a bit more open minded. Reason being - Have you ever seen a forum that wasn't full of bitching and complaining about the product? If I had seen the Vonage Forum before I bought my Vonage phones and service I would have never used Vonage. The fact is it works great for me.


The same thing apllies to the TiVo S3. People constantly complaining, and while I will admit to having an issue or two myself overall it was well worth the money I paid to get rid of the SA 8300.


Point is if you make the change do they make you sign a contract? If not, why not try it if you're not happy with what you have now. D* will be happy to take you back.


----------



## Valnar

The point of Uverse, from what I've read, is they take the original source given to them by the station and recompress it to MPEG4. Since it was already a compressed feed (MPEG2 or whatever) originally, it can never look as good. It might come close, but it's impossible. And from what I've read on the Uverse forums, there is some degredation noticed by some subscribers.


Add to that my internal QAM/ATSC/NTSC tuner becomes useless and I _must_ use their box to tune anything is an annoyance, epecially since those DVR's aren't perfect.


Assuming any of that is true, I'd be better off sticking with ATSC or QAM. Its certainly possible for my cable company to recompress the original ATSC stream, but I can't notice it.


Now, the model that they use (multicast over IP) is very cool since it saves bandwidth instead of broadcasting down every channel simultaneously. I expect with more bandwidth in the future, it will be the killer way of doing TV.


Robert


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While I don't support U-Verse myself I would be a bit more open minded. Reason being - Have you ever seen a forum that wasn't full of bitching and complaining about the product? If I had seen the Vonage Forum before I bought my Vonage phones and service I would have never used Vonage. The fact is it works great for me.
> 
> 
> The same thing apllies to the TiVo S3. People constantly complaining, and while I will admit to having an issue or two myself overall it was well worth the money I paid to get rid of the SA 8300.
> 
> 
> Point is if you make the change do they make you sign a contract? If not, why not try it if you're not happy with what you have now. D* will be happy to take you back.



I read their forum daily for a couple months. After 5 years with these forums, I think I've developed a pretty good feel of "normal bitching" versus "consistent bitching" with no one sticking up for the product. However, the real "killer" for me is that their current bandwidth into the home won't support more than one HD channel at a time (i.e., can't record two at a time or even record one and watch another real time). That's not for me; and I doubt it's for you either.


I am currently content with D* and especially where it will be after the next couple months. How's this for a high definition lineup?


Current HD Channels


Discovery HD Theater

ESPN

ESPN 2

HDNet

HDNet Movies

TNT

Universal HD

HBO-E

SHO-E


Announced HD Additions

* = not a simulcast of the SD channel (if available), programming will vary.


September 2007


A&E

Animal Planet

Big Ten Network

CNN

Discovery

Food Network*

HGTV*

History Channel

MHD (MTV brand channel)

National Geographic

NFL Network

The Science Channel

TBS

TLC

Versus

Weather Channel

Cinemax-E

Cinemax-W

MoreMax

HBO-W

HBO2-E

HBO2-W

HBO Family-E

HBO Family-W

HBO Signature

The Movie Channel

SHO-W

STARZ-E

STARZ-W

STARZ-Edge

STARZ-Comedy

STARZ-Kids

Fall 2007

Bravo

Cartoon Network

Chiller

CNBC

FX

SciFi Channel

Sleuth

Speed

USA Network

December 2007

The Tennis Channel

Spring 2008

ABC Family

Disney Channel

ESPN News

MGM

Toon Disney


Regional Sports Networks

Available nationally, but local blackout rules still apply.

Fall 2007

Altitude

Comcast SportsNet Chicago

Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic

FSN Arizona

FSN Bay Area

FSN Detroit

FSN Florida

FSN New England

FSN North

FSN Northwest

FSN Ohio

FSN Prime Ticket

FSN Rocky Mountain

FSN South

FSN Southwest

FSN West

New England Sports Network

SportsNet New York

SportsSouth

Sun Sports

YES


Foreign Language Channels


HBO Latino - 9/07


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I However, the real "killer" for me is that their current bandwidth into the home won't support more than one HD channel at a time (i.e., can't record two at a time or even record one and watch another real time). That's not for me; and I doubt it's for you either.



Yep, that would kill the deal for me for sure. And I don't think I could use my S3 with it but if I didn't have the S3 I sure as hell wouldn't want to only be able to record one HD channel at a time.


The thing about it is that I can see a whole bunch of people buying into this thing. The majority of people I talk to out on the street have absolutely no idea of what HD is or even what a DVR is. So I can see if promoted properly a good number of people who are sick of the cable company jumping on board.


----------



## vman41




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In theory a CableCard will produce a better picture than an external tuner because there are fewer stages of video processing involved. A shorter video path is usually better. Like everything in life though, it's a compromise.



For digital, 'better' also means smoothly extracting the stream, decrypting it, and decoding it for display. You particular TV + cablecard may be less reliable at this than an external tuner that more tighly integrates everything and which they've had more experience with.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vman41* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For digital, 'better' also means smoothly extracting the stream, decrypting it, and decoding it for display. You particular TV + cablecard may be less reliable at this than an external tuner that more tighly integrates everything and which they've had more experience with.



That's a valid point, vman. Not all mpeg decoders are the same, and the ones that are built into CC-ready TV sets might not be built to the same tolerances that external devices are.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I'll stick with what I have for now and forget AT&T.
> 
> 
> I don't know how good WOW's digital/HD service is since I don't have it yet, but I'm inclined to try it out because I really do need a good Internet service and WOW is rock solid. I'm sure if I ordered AT&T DSL separately (and got D*) it might be just as good, but I'd rather not rock the boat.
> 
> 
> Robert



A couple months ago I dumped by ATT (SBC) DSL and added 4Mbps internet to my WOW cable. Bundled with my existing WOW cable services, the 4Mbps amounts to an additional $25/mo on my bill. If I were to go back to ATT, I would have to get "naked" DSL at "up to" 3Mbps for $29/mo. Because of the old copper infrastructure here, I was never able to get more than 2Mbps out of ATT.


So far the WOW cable internet has been reliable, with one exception last week on the first really hot night of the year (no storms), about 6000 Shaker Heights homes in the area lost power. (The power around here is worse than Baghdad, and has been that way for some years now) I keep my cable modem on a UPS and noticed the cable modem immediately lost carrier. I wasn't too thrilled with that since I'm also using VOIP for my home phone now.


The UVerse reviews for NE Ohio seem mixed, there were a couple people on the west side that seemed happy, and a couple people on the east side that weren't.


Personally I'm waiting to see what D* does later this year and see if WOW keeps up with the new HD channel rollouts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A couple months ago I dumped by ATT (SBC) DSL and added 4Mbps internet to my WOW cable. Bundled with my existing WOW cable services, the 4Mbps amounts to an additional $25/mo on my bill. If I were to go back to ATT, I would have to get "naked" DSL at "up to" 3Mbps for $29/mo. Because of the old copper infrastructure here, I was never able to get more than 2Mbps out of ATT.
> 
> 
> .



Road Runner H.S. Internet goes 4.5 Mbps for down speed and 760.8 Kbps for up speed. Another problem with DSL is the farther away you are from the source the slower it is.


I've heard that the number of people on line can affect cable speed but my numbers in all my test are consistant.


And as far as Voip, yes you will lose it if you lose power. Which is why everybody should own a natural gas powered generator. Well worth the money.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And as far as Voip, yes you will lose it if you lose power. Which is why everybody should own a natural gas powered generator. Well worth the money.



Just to be clear, it is quite likely that even if you can sustain power in your home, you'll still loose your internet connection and cable television since those generally run on the same power grid that services your house (as paule123 experienced).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just to be clear, it is quite likely that even if you can sustain power in your home, you'll still loose your internet connection and cable television since those generally run on the same power grid that services your house (as paule123 experienced).



Nope, when I lose power once my generator kicks in everything still works.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope, when I lose power once my generator kicks in everything still works.



Every cable company that's serious about high speed data and VOIP has battery-backed power supplies in the field, and a data center grade power backup system in the headend. That's why your system still works during a blackout.


----------



## Inundated

The last lengthy blackout at my place, the then-Adelphia HSI still worked fine long after the power went out. Since my cable modem and router are on a UPS, I was surfing from my battery-powered laptop till it lost all the juice in the battery.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every cable company that's serious about high speed data and VOIP has battery-backed power supplies in the field, and a data center grade power backup system in the headend. That's why your system still works during a blackout.



Yes, I beleive those green "Lectro" boxes you see up on the poles are the UPSes for the cable system. Apparently WOW's weren't working real well that night...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I beleive those green "Lectro" boxes you see up on the poles are the UPSes for the cable system. Apparently WOW's weren't working real well that night...



I don't know how it works in my area. All the wires, cable included are underground but there is this rather large box, about a third of the size as the U-Verse box that sits between the property lines. I have no idea what's in that thing but I do know that when they check signal stregth that's where they go.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I beleive those green "Lectro" boxes you see up on the poles are the UPSes for the cable system.



Yeppers. The batteries are in the lower portion of the box.


----------



## dleising

I have TWC Kent area service. I see that a lot of you are able to get a lot of out of area stations via cable QAM. I tried this last night and I was only able to pick up the Cleveland locals (couldn't get WJW for some reason), 2 music choice channels, GSN, The Outdoor Channel, some Spanish channel, and some PPV preview channels. Does what services you have affect what you can get via QAM? Thanks.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have TWC Kent area service. I see that a lot of you are able to get a lot of out of area stations via cable QAM. I tried this last night and I was only able to pick up the Cleveland locals (couldn't get WJW for some reason), 2 music choice channels, GSN, The Outdoor Channel, some Spanish channel, and some PPV preview channels. Does what services you have affect what you can get via QAM? Thanks.



The services you have don't really effect what channels you get via QAM, as long as you are subcribing to something of Warner's services. Every area is different though, sort-of a pot-luck-pick... maybe you'll get _this_ channel, and maybe you won't.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have TWC Kent area service. I see that a lot of you are able to get a lot of out of area stations via cable QAM. I tried this last night and I was only able to pick up the Cleveland locals (couldn't get WJW for some reason), 2 music choice channels, GSN, The Outdoor Channel, some Spanish channel, and some PPV preview channels. Does what services you have affect what you can get via QAM? Thanks.



Try getting your QAM tuner as close as possible to the "pure" cable feed coming in the house without splitters/amplifiers in the path, and see what you get. My experience has been that the QAM tuners in the consumer grade stuff (TVs and PC tuners) are very picky about signal strength.


----------



## DaveKennett

Time Warner in North Ridgeville - I just started seeing WVIZD on channel 214 in the guide, but I'm not able to actually watch it. The rep says they must be testing, but didn't seem to know what was going on.


Anyone have any insight into this?


Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveKennett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Time Warner in North Ridgeville - I just started seeing WVIZD on channel 214 in the guide, but I'm not able to actually watch it. The rep says they must be testing, but didn't seem to know what was going on.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any insight into this?
> 
> 
> Dave



The rep is probably right, as all of us old Adelphia people have had WVIZHD for years now.


----------



## rRooster

Hey guys just wondered if anyone else noticed that Time Warner now has HD on demand content on channel 777. Currently not too much content but at least we know they can pull it off!


----------



## Ben Music

I live in North Ridgeville, and WVIZ-HD (ch 214) has been working fine 24/7 since it started around 2 weeks ago. It looks great in HD.


Have any of you TWC insiders in Lorain County heard any news of the upcoming channel realignment? I'm anxious to get HDNET & HDNET movies, and any other HD channels that the main NEO systems get.

Also, when is the box switchout going to happen?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rRooster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys just wondered if anyone else noticed that Time Warner now has HD on demand content on channel 777. Currently not too much content but at least we know they can pull it off!



Yeah it's been there for months now. Do they actually have any content on it now?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah it's been there for months now. Do they actually have any content on it now?



I tried it last night and not only was there no content, it crashed my SA8000HD something fierce! We're talking total box shutdown.


Maybe it's just a glitch...and I have seen the HD content hiding under menus on the regular MOD channel. As said, not much.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried it last night and not only was there no content, it crashed my SA8000HD something fierce! We're talking total box shutdown.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just a glitch...and I have seen the HD content hiding under menus on the regular MOD channel. As said, not much.



Inundated, you should consider swapping for an 8300. I have yet to crash an 8300 that's running current firmware.


----------



## extremegamer

Got my U-Verse installed. After one day, I love it. 100X better than the crap I had with TWC. The HD looks the same to me, if it's more compressed, I can't notice it on either of my HDTV's. The one feed of HD sucks, but it's not that often that I would use 2 tv's at the same time with different HD feeds. I've heard from both installers and 2 CSR's that the HD feeds will be upped to 4 by the end of the year, about the same time they roll out the multi TV DVR. Right now the DVR records 4 things at one time, but can only be watched on that TV. Soon you'll be able to watch it on any tv in the house, which is cool.


A lot more channels than I had before, but one thing I noticed last night, no PPV. They have on demand movies, like 300, TMNT, etc on that service, but I didn't see anywhere for say a boxing fight, UFC or WWE. Maybe it appears day of, I'll have to check. I never order PPV anyway, if there's something I want to watch I'll head to BW-3's. So it's no loss for me.


Overall, I'm extremely happy and never had so much pleasure taking my 2 HD DVR's back to TWC doorstep last night and canceling. Felt really good, to see my DVR's stacked on top of about 7 other ones, and the lady at the counter telling me I was the 10th person to cancel today for AT&T.


----------



## dleising

What is a good external QAM/ATSC tuner for non-digital T.V.'s?


I'm thinking about getting one, and don't want it to be too pricey...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The one feed of HD sucks, but it's not that often that I would use 2 tv's at the same time with different HD feeds. I've heard from both installers and 2 CSR's that the HD feeds will be upped to 4 by the end of the year, about the same time they roll out the multi TV DVR. Right now the DVR records 4 things at one time, but can only be watched on that TV.



Your explanation is interesting and I have some followup/clarification questions. You mention that you cannot have 2 TVs watching 2 different HD feeds but then go on to mention that you can record 4 things on one DVR. Does that mean you can record 4 HD feeds at once currently, or can you only record 1 HD feed and 3 additional SD feeds?


BTW, one other reason people may be dropping TWC for AT&T would be due to AT&T's agreement to carry the Big Ten Network.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your explanation is interesting and I have some followup/clarification questions. You mention that you cannot have 2 TVs watching 2 different HD feeds but then go on to mention that you can record 4 things on one DVR. Does that mean you can record 4 HD feeds at once currently, or can you only record 1 HD feed and 3 additional SD feeds?
> 
> 
> BTW, one other reason people may be dropping TWC for AT&T would be due to AT&T's agreement to carry the Big Ten Network.



1 HD and 3 SD feeds, or 4 SD feeds. You can only have 1 HD feed in your house at one time period. Sucks, but that's what it is. I didn't get a chance to fully test it, but the same HD signal can be on seperate TV's though. So if the Super Bowl is on, you could have it on every HDTV in the house since it's the same feed. I'll test that more tonight.


Yeah, them and Direct TV are the only ones to sign on with Big 10.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1 HD and 3 SD feeds, or 4 SD feeds. You can only have 1 HD feed in your house at one time period. Sucks, but that's what it is. I didn't get a chance to fully test it, but the same HD signal can be on seperate TV's though. So if the Super Bowl is on, you could have it on every HDTV in the house since it's the same feed. I'll test that more tonight.
> 
> 
> Yeah, them and Direct TV are the only ones to sign on with Big 10.



Well, that would not be acceptable to me. I want to record 2 HD shows at one time, specially during the fall and while this might be "available in the future" I would wait until that future arrived before I would switch. Anyway I can currently have 3 HD feeds in my house with my S3 and my HD STB upstairs.


Superbowl on every TV in HD? I can do that now. I have a HD STB in my bedroom and my S3 in my Family Room.


Here's a couple of other things I don't like. You're still stuck with their line in through the wall phone service at their higher prices (no Voip). Plus AT&T has done nothing over the years to show me they are not just as evil as a cable company.


Anyway don't you know that the copper wire that they use in those boxes are fire hazards?










Just kidding, but some of the cable companies were portraying them that way.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, that would not be acceptable to me. I want to record 2 HD shows at one time, specially during the fall and while this might be "available in the future" I would wait until that future arrived before I would switch. Anyway I can currently have 3 HD feeds in my house with my S3 and my HD STB upstairs.
> 
> 
> Superbowl on every TV in HD? I can do that now. I have a HD STB in my bedroom and my S3 in my Family Room.
> 
> 
> Here's a couple of other things I don't like. You're still stuck with their line in through the wall phone service at their higher prices (no Voip). Plus AT&T has done nothing over the years to show me they are not just as evil as a cable company.
> 
> 
> Anyway don't you know that the copper wire that they use in those boxes are fire hazards?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding, but some of the cable companies were portraying them that way.



Eh, I'm home at night, and there's not a ton of TV that I watch that I won't be home to tape. If I have to tape one show in SD every now and then, oh well. No big loss to me.


We only have 2 HDTV's, one in our living room and one in our family room, so it's not like it'll be used that often.


I pay $32 for my phone line, I have unlimited long distance, call waiting, voice mail, 3 way calling, caller ID etc. So I don't feel I'm "stuck". I've paid pretty much that same amount for almost 3 years now.


I have no idea about copper wiring, they used CAT 5 for the install.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is a good external QAM/ATSC tuner for non-digital T.V.'s?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about getting one, and don't want it to be too pricey...



When you find one, let me know, LOL. I haven't seen one for less than about $150 and even those don't necessarily have QAM. You would think with the analog shutoff getting closer, we'd see a lot more of these. Instead it seems like there's fewer options than ever before. BB and CC only have one Samsung unit @ $179. Radio Shack used to have an Accurian brand, but that looks like it's discontinued. USDTV sold a cheap one at WalMart but they went out of business... It's just pathetic.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When you find one, let me know, LOL. I haven't seen one for less than about $150 and even those don't necessarily have QAM. You would think with the analog shutoff getting closer, we'd see a lot more of these. Instead it seems like there's fewer options than ever before. BB and CC only have one Samsung unit @ $179. Radio Shack used to have an Accurian brand, but that looks like it's discontinued. USDTV sold a cheap one at WalMart but they went out of business... It's just pathetic.



I've got a Samsung model (gosh been 2 or 3 years now?). It isn't anything special but it works well. You can probably find the USDTV at eBay, but it doesn't have Dolby Digital!


Of course, you won't find many of these


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Eh, I'm home at night, and there's not a ton of TV that I watch that I won't be home to tape. If I have to tape one show in SD every now and then, oh well. No big loss to me.



We don't "tape", we "record."










So time shifting doesn't interest you? What happens when two programs you like come on at the same time? And you actually watch commercials? The only thing I watch live is news and football. Occasionally baseball.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I pay $32 for my phone line, I have unlimited long distance, call waiting, voice mail, 3 way calling, caller ID etc. So I don't feel I'm "stuck". I've paid pretty much that same amount for almost 3 years now.



With Vonage I pay 15.95 per month. I get 500 outgoing calls per month, more then I ever need, unlimited long distance, vm, call waiting, caller ID, and 3 way calling. Also if I have a VM vonage lets me know by email. 800 numbers I dial out to don't count against my calls, neither do incoming calls. I also think there is some free international calls but I don't use that. Also we now have e911.


And you still have to pay extra for local area toll calls right? If you phone within a certain localized area don't they add that on?


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We don't "tape", we "record."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So time shifting doesn't interest you? What happens when two programs you like come on at the same time? And you actually watch commercials? The only thing I watch live is news and football. Occasionally baseball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Vonage I pay 15.95 per month. I get 500 outgoing calls per month, more then I ever need, unlimited long distance, vm, call waiting, caller ID, and 3 way calling. Also if I have a VM vonage lets me know by email. 800 numbers I dial out to don't count against my calls, neither do incoming calls. I also think there is some free international calls but I don't use that. Also we now have e911.
> 
> 
> And you still have to pay extra for local area toll calls right? If you phone within a certain localized area don't they add that on?



If I'm home, I watch the show live 95% of the time. Just the way the wife and I have always done it. We "record" shows, but only if it's something that interests us. We usually have 1-2 shows a night tops that we watch, and maybe 3 shows a week that are "can't miss TV". With the Internet, anything I miss is easily caught up on later.


Having the Big 10 Network and NFL Network were much more important to me than having one of TWC's DVR's in my house.


I pay nothing extra on my phone, make a ton of calls every month. I'd never use Voneage, but that's me. I also wouldn't ever touch TWC's cable Internet again either. Everyone has different experiences though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I'm home, I watch the show live 95% of the time. Just the way the wife and I have always done it. We "record" shows, but only if it's something that interests us. We usually have 1-2 shows a night tops that we watch, and maybe 3 shows a week that are "can't miss TV". With the Internet, anything I miss is easily caught up on later.
> 
> 
> Having the Big 10 Network and NFL Network were much more important to me than having one of TWC's DVR's in my house.
> 
> 
> I pay nothing extra on my phone, make a ton of calls every month. I'd never use Voneage, but that's me. I also wouldn't ever touch TWC's cable Internet again either. Everyone has different experiences though.



I can easily see now why U-Verse is something you would want. I could care less about The Big 10 or NFL Network, so you've certainly made your point.


As far as TWC's internet all I can say it is way better then the phone company I used before (Cincinnati Bell) but as you said different strokes. Glad your happy with what you've got.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can easily see now why U-Verse is something you would want. I could care less about The Big 10 or NFL Network, so you've certainly made your point.
> 
> 
> As far as TWC's internet all I can say it is way better then the phone company I used before (Cincinnati Bell) but as you said different strokes. Glad your happy with what you've got.



What's sad, I was very happy with Comcast. Their Internet was fantastic, once TWC came out, we would lose service once a week. After 3 months of that, I canceled and gave up.


----------



## Inundated

And I think I've lost service once, briefly, since TWC took over Adelphia. I'm still very happy with it.


Now, if the competitor were Verizon's FiOS instead of AT&T's U-verse (do I have all the styles right?







), I might be interested. Fiber to the premises, with MUCH higher Internet speeds available.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And I think I've lost service once, briefly, since TWC took over Adelphia. I'm still very happy with it.



Yes, initially when they first took over there were a couple of outages. Since then however, things have been very stable. Their promised increase in speed however never really materialized. If anything I'm getting a bit slower up load speed.


----------



## DaveKennett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I live in North Ridgeville, and WVIZ-HD (ch 214) has been working fine 24/7 since it started around 2 weeks ago. It looks great in HD.
> 
> Ben Music



Thanks Ben! I guess they must have me locked out with my basic service. It seems that I read somewhere that cable companies were required to have PBS stations in the clear - something to do with our tax money paying for them. Anyone have a reference to that so I have a little more ammo?


Thanks, Dave


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaveKennett* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ben! I guess they must have me locked out with my basic service. It seems that I read somewhere that cable companies were required to have PBS stations in the clear - something to do with our tax money paying for them. Anyone have a reference to that so I have a little more ammo?
> 
> 
> Thanks, Dave



Not every area is the same. It's possible that you local division doesn't have it implemented into your system yet.

It's also possible that may may have the channels that PBS is on accidentally blocked out. Have you tried to do a rescan?


----------



## Ben Music

Dave,

If you only have basic service,(ch 2-23) or expanded basic, (ch 2-99) then WVIZ-25 will only come in on your ch 10. If you have digital and HD service, then WVIZ-25 HD will be on ch 214 on your digital hd box along with the rest of our HD locals like 3,5,8,19,43 etc. If you live in NR. as I do, then we both get our TWC signals from the same head end office in Elyria.


Hope this helps,

Ben Music


----------



## hookbill

File this under the "for what it's worth" section. Time Warner has finally updated their on line guide to accurately reflect what they offer. Well, almost accurate.


It seems they are still listing WNEO-HD on channel 715 which has been on there for some time now. So I still assume at some time that has to happen.


They've made all the changes for channels they've moved and for channels like INHD, now MOJO and got rid of INHD2. Universal channel also appears.


Can't say this applies to everyone. YMMV


----------



## silverballmania

I currently only have basic/expanded basic (not digital) through TW. Anyone know if I can just sign up for the HD package without also upgrading to digital? WIth my HDTVs QAM tuner would I need a converter box to get those stations I don't get in the clear (ESPN, etc)?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I currently only have basic/expanded basic (not digital) through TW. Anyone know if I can just sign up for the HD package without also upgrading to digital? WIth my HDTVs QAM tuner would I need a converter box to get those stations I don't get in the clear (ESPN, etc)?



These kind of questions get asked here frequently and I honestly don't remember the answer and in no way am I trying to be mean by saying this but wouldn't the best way to find out an answer for a question like this be call customer service? Yes, I realize they are all idiots but on this type of question I think they are the ones who can answer it best for you.


----------



## silverballmania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> These kind of questions get asked here frequently and I honestly don't remember the answer and in no way am I trying to be mean by saying this but wouldn't the best way to find out an answer for a question like this be call customer service? Yes, I realize they are all idiots but on this type of question I think they are the ones who can answer it best for you.



I called twice and got the same answer: I have to upgrade to digital cable and buy the HD tier and rent the converter box. I am finding this hard to believe and I think they are just trying to charge me another $28/mo for a bunch of crap I don't want! I don't want digital - I just want the HD channels I don't get in the clear. I'd like to hear from someone on here that might have this setup or experience that it will not work.


I have followed this thread and read just about every post the years and I have not seen this exact question asked (unless my mind is failing me). Certainly many that were similar.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I currently only have basic/expanded basic (not digital) through TW. Anyone know if I can just sign up for the HD package without also upgrading to digital? WIth my HDTVs QAM tuner would I need a converter box to get those stations I don't get in the clear (ESPN, etc)?



I'm pretty sure digital service is required to get HD (assuming you want anything that is encrypted). You can save yourself some money and go with a cable card instead of a rental box since it sounds like you've got a cable card slot in your TV.


You can argue price with them, before I left TWC I was getting ~15% off my DigiPic package.


If any of you are paying full price to TWC, call them and say you feel you're paying too much for service and you're considering switching. They'll likely switch you to retention where (at least in the Cincinnati area) gladly knock off ~15% for 12 months. Then just call again in 12 months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure digital service is required to get HD (assuming you want anything that is encrypted). You can save yourself some money and go with a cable card instead of a rental box since it sounds like you've got a cable card slot in your TV.
> 
> 
> You can argue price with them, before I left TWC I was getting ~15% off my DigiPic package.
> 
> 
> If any of you are paying full price to TWC, call them and say you feel you're paying too much for service and you're considering switching. They'll likely switch you to retention where (at least in the Cincinnati area) gladly knock off ~15% for 12 months. Then just call again in 12 months.



They kicked me back once for 3 months. I tried it again and they said no.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They've made all the changes for channels they've moved and for channels like INHD, now MOJO and got rid of INHD2. Universal channel also appears.
> 
> 
> Can't say this applies to everyone. YMMV



BTW, they have added the Cleveland Suburbs and other non-legacy TWC lineups into the regular lineup dialog as well, only that one misses the "HDTV Tier" channels for some reason (HDNet/HDNet Movies/Universal HD/Mojo). And it mistakenly lists ESPN2 analog on 29 as ESPN2 HD, though the actual HD ESPN2 channel is properly listed at 773...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...&Image1=submit


----------



## Ognir

WOW a new look !

Nobody has anything to say about it?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/11344377
> 
> 
> WOW a new look !
> 
> Nobody has anything to say about it?




I didn't know where I was the first time I came here because I clicked on a subscription link. I was worried something was wrong with my computer.










Looks nice and fresh. I wish they would have stuck some thumbs up and down over in the smileys area (not the post icon area). I like to use those from time to time.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Wow, there's something else new too. hookbill has an avatar! Looks like an axe-murderer if I ever did see one







(just kidding). I would've expected maybe a TivoS3 logo instead of a portrait.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/11327737
> 
> 
> I currently only have basic/expanded basic (not digital) through TW. Anyone know if I can just sign up for the HD package without also upgrading to digital? WIth my HDTVs QAM tuner would I need a converter box to get those stations I don't get in the clear (ESPN, etc)?



Since you mention ESPN specifically, yes you will need a converter box (or CableCard in your TV) for that. The cable company is not going to send out ESPNHD "in-the-clear" for anyone with a QAM tuner to pick up. AFAIK, ESPN charges the cable company a lot of money per subscriber for ESPN and ESPN2 HD.


If you are just interested in the local HD channels (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX/PBS) you should be able to get those "in-the-clear" on your QAM tuner equipped TV without signing up for any additional HD package or digital cable package.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11345543
> 
> 
> Wow, there's something else new too. hookbill has an avatar! Looks like an axe-murderer if I ever did see one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (just kidding). I would've expected maybe a TivoS3 logo instead of a portrait.



That picture has been there for years. I removed it from appearing in the threads but for some reason I can't get it out of my personal profile.


Anyway, no matter because that picture makes me look thinner and younger then I really am.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ognir* /forum/post/11344377
> 
> 
> WOW a new look !
> 
> Nobody has anything to say about it?



the new look is excatly like satelliteguys.us which is where I spend most of my time....I do enjoy it, but think they should have done something a little different, oh well its better then black


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11347846
> 
> 
> the new look is excatly like satelliteguys.us which is where I spend most of my time....I do enjoy it, but think they should have done something a little different, oh well its better then black



I believe you could have changed it to white before in the user CP. Now you can choose between black, white, and retro.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11347910
> 
> 
> I believe you could have changed it to white before in the user CP. Now you can choose between black, white, and retro.



I picked the black. I think it gives a good background. The retro was pukey and I'm glad we can change it. And I'm not sure if you're talking to me again about the avatar but I tried to change it in the user CP. It showing that nothing is there.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, I can't see the avatar now. So if you wanted it gone, it's gone.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11348083
> 
> 
> Hook, I can't see the avatar now. So if you wanted it gone, it's gone.



You mean you could see it on the thread? Wow, that shouldn't have happened at all. Must have been some kind of error for that to have happened.


----------



## Smarty-pants

post#9382 I could see it below your name, that was the only time I saw it. now it's gone.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Does anybody know if WOW cable is going to add more HD channels or WVIZ to there line up?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/11350073
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if WOW cable is going to add more HD channels or WVIZ to there line up?




Sure. WOW knows or at least somebody at WOW knows but just like any other cable company that knowledge is kept locked up pretty tight.


You could try calling them and see what their response is. I understand that they are different form TWC so maybe you will get an honest answer.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/11350073
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if WOW cable is going to add more HD channels or WVIZ to there line up?



I emailed them when WNEO got their HD running recently, asking if and when they'd add WNEO to the HD lineup. Unfortunately they misinterpreted my email to think I was talking about WVIZ which of course still has the milliwatt transmitter. I never heard back.


All I gotta say is when D* starts doing their MPEG4 HD thing this fall, WOW needs to keep pace. We've been waiting for ESPN2HD forever. No MHD or UHD. And I'm curious to see if they paid for the NFL Network live games when the regular season starts.


----------



## ajstan99

We must be on the same wavelength. I just wrote WOW (again) about the WVIZ or WNEO/WEAO. Here's the response I received:


"I am not aware of immediate plans to offer WVIZ, or WNEO/WEAO at this time. WOW! adds channels based on channel requests and requests from our customers. The more request we recieve, the better chance the channel has being added to our line up."


So, I guess our only option is to keep calling/writing. Of course, other than this issue, WOW has been virtually flawless for me and I wouldn't even think of changing providers.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/11327737
> 
> 
> I currently only have basic/expanded basic (not digital) through TW. Anyone know if I can just sign up for the HD package without also upgrading to digital? WIth my HDTVs QAM tuner would I need a converter box to get those stations I don't get in the clear (ESPN, etc)?



In order to get the HD stations you don't get "in the clear", you need a tuner supplied by the cable company, or a device that takes a cable card.


This is just a guess, but I would suspect that once you have a tuner for HD, there is no way for the cable company to turn off the other digital channels. If there was physically a way to do it, I am sure they would be happy to take your money.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/11355996
> 
> 
> This is just a guess, but I would suspect that once you have a tuner for HD, there is no way for the cable company to turn off the other digital channels. If there was physically a way to do it, I am sure they would be happy to take your money.



First, I don't think you can get HD without the digital tier. Second, if you could what makes you think they couldn't turn off the digital stations? You do realize TW has two tiers of digital. I only subscribe to one and thats all I get.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I don't subscribe to anything digital. I pay TW for their Lifeline Basic package which is channels 2-22. Now, via QAM I receive all the local channels in HD. Including,

ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS x2(WNEO and WVIZ), WUAB... but I also get digital channels of "The Tube", WNEO, ABC, CBS, NBC, E!, FoodNetwork, DiscoveryHealth, Discovery, FitTV, and several others. I don't think TW just WANTS to give me those channels. I think because of maybe some bandwidth restriction or something like that, that they can't block those those channels from being viewed. I know others in my area also receive the same thing.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11356456
> 
> 
> First, I don't think you can get HD without the digital tier. Second, if you could what makes you think they couldn't turn off the digital stations? You do realize TW has two tiers of digital. I only subscribe to one and thats all I get.



It's like someone who has broadcast basic asking for HBO. The cable company will tell you that family cable is "required" before you can subscribe to a movie channel, but what they really mean is that if they gave you the hardware to receive HBO, they couldn't stop you from receiving TNT or USA.


Until they have the ability to filter individual channels on a house by house basis, I suspect there are dependencies like this that they market as "requirements".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/11367449
> 
> 
> It's like someone who has broadcast basic asking for HBO. The cable company will tell you that family cable is "required" before you can subscribe to a movie channel, but what they really mean is that if they gave you the hardware to receive HBO, they couldn't stop you from receiving TNT or USA.
> 
> 
> Until they have the ability to filter individual channels on a house by house basis, I suspect there are dependencies like this that they market as "requirements".



I'm not sure that you made a good comparison because the two stations you mention are analog, not encrypted digital.


Now here's a good question - If you purchase basic cable do you need to purchase basic cable plus in order to receive USA and TNT? I don't think you would so long as your television is capable of receiving the standard 125 analog channels.


The question you should ask is "is someone who pays for basic cable able to get HBO without being required to pay for digital as they would receive channels like National Geographic and The Hallmark channel without paying the digital fee?"


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11367951
> 
> 
> I'm not sure that you made a good comparison because the two stations you mention are analog, not encrypted digital.
> 
> 
> Now here's a good question - If you purchase basic cable do you need to purchase basic cable plus in order to receive USA and TNT? I don't think you would so long as your television is capable of receiving the standard 125 analog channels.
> 
> 
> The question you should ask is "is someone who pays for basic cable able to get HBO without being required to pay for digital as they would receive channels like National Geographic and The Hallmark channel without paying the digital fee?"



I'm not sure I follow you. The only point I was trying to make is that the cable company does not have the ability to turn on or off individual channels for each customer. As long as a request to access any one channel grants access to the entire block, there will be purchase "requirements".


The lowest block is called "Broadcast Basic", or "Lifeline", usually meaning you get over the cable only those channels that you would otherwise get via an antenna. The next block is "Family Cable", meaning the full analog cable that any cable ready tv can receive. The next block is "Digital Basic", which requires a digital cable box or cablecard. They can then offer bundles of digital channels such as sports, foreign language, or HD.


So, let's say you want to buy the HD block. To view these channels, they have to give you an HD capable digital box. Once you plug it in, they can't stop you from watching the "Family Cable" or "Digital Basic" channels, so you are required to buy those packages first if you want HD.


----------



## terryfoster

You're right, it is highly likely that you should be required to subscribe to all analog packages to subscribe to a digital package. The difference is once you start talking about digital programming, you can actually provide a true 'a la carte' programming system. This is handled through data encryption and each box can be authorized to decrypt a certain number of channels.


TWC has just decided to make a policy to require a basic digital package to gain access to other digital programming.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/11371477
> 
> 
> You're right, it is highly likely that you should be required to subscribe to all analog packages to subscribe to a digital package. The difference is once you start talking about digital programming, you can actually provide a true 'a la carte' programming system. This is handled through data encryption and each box can be authorized to decrypt a certain number of channels.
> 
> 
> TWC has just decided to make a policy to require a basic digital package to gain access to other digital programming.



Other than local channels of course, since that would be illegal... unless they are doing away with analog all together.


----------



## chriztofur

This is off topic, I suppose, and 'Allo to all here..


I just received the 8300hdc, and I'm in the Ohio city area..it has the SARA UI, which, imo, is terrible..cruddy graphics, and no options for first run/reruns on season passes..bleh..


Anyone know if they're going to be upgrading this area to passport, if there's a way I can get my hands on a box with passport on it?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chriztofur* /forum/post/11372101
> 
> 
> Anyone know if they're going to be upgrading this area to passport, if there's a way I can get my hands on a box with passport on it?



Whenever they launch a new UI, it will be pushed into all of the boxes automagically.


There's no such thing as a Passport box vs a Sara box; whenever the headend is ready to support a particular UI, everyone will have it, but not until. That's because there's a lot of stuff that has to happen on the back end for any given UI. In other words, even if you got hold of a box that was running Passport and placed it on your Sara system, it either (1) wouldn't work or (2) would pull down a new copy of Sara and overwrite the old stuff.


Patience, grasshopper.


----------



## chriztofur




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chriztofur* /forum/post/11372101
> 
> 
> This is off topic, I suppose, and 'Allo to all here..
> 
> 
> I just received the 8300hdc, and I'm in the Ohio city area..it has the SARA UI, which, imo, is terrible..cruddy graphics, and no options for first run/reruns on season passes..bleh..
> 
> 
> Anyone know if they're going to be upgrading this area to passport, if there's a way I can get my hands on a box with passport on it?



Also, do you think if I were to take my HD-DVR into a time warner location and ask for one with passport, they'd 1) Know what I'm talking about, and 2) give me one?


----------



## chriztofur




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/11372444
> 
> 
> Whenever they launch a new UI, it will be pushed into all of the boxes automagically.
> 
> 
> There's no such thing as a Passport box vs a Sara box; whenever the headend is ready to support a particular UI, everyone will have it, but not until. That's because there's a lot of stuff that has to happen on the back end for any given UI. In other words, even if you got hold of a box that was running Passport and placed it on your Sara system, it either (1) wouldn't work or (2) would pull down a new copy of Sara and overwrite the old stuff.
> 
> 
> Patience, grasshopper.



Wrote my last post before I saw this one







. So, that makes sense, I think. Essentially, I'm stuck with the crappy SARA interface..but it's not just me, it's everyone in that area, right?


As long as I'm suffering en masse, while my akron friends enjoy passport, I'll feel a bit better.


----------



## Smarty-pants

First, automagically?... I've never heard that... that's funny.









Second, welcome to AVS chriztofur.









Third, he don't know Time Warner very well do he?

No, they would laugh, only out of embarassment of their ignorance. Then you will walk out shaking your head in disbelief.


----------



## chriztofur




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11372526
> 
> 
> First, automagically?... I've never heard that... that's funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, welcome to AVS chriztofur.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Third, he don't know Time Warner very well do he?
> 
> No, they would laugh, only out of embarassment of their ignorance. Then you will walk out shaking your head in disbelief.



HAH! Disbelief about Time Warners ignorance..


Three weeks ago, my gf and I moved to ohio city, and put in a request to transfer service, so disconnect old place, install new place with HD-DVR..


A week later they come by, and install the DVR after missing one appointment. Whatever, I was happy, it was working. I leave at 6PM that day, come back at 7, and NOTHING works. Road runner, cable(through the box, or the tv), anything. I had a gut feeling they disconnected our new address instead of the previous, but they denied it. The soonest they'd be able to get anyone out, was that sunday.


Sunday finally rolls around, and the TWC dude comes and fixes the issue. The problem? They HAD came around the SAME DAY they installed it, and disconnected it again, at the interface box!


Guh. hehe.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11371604
> 
> 
> Other than local channels of course, since that would be illegal... unless they are doing away with analog all together.



Not sure what you're getting at here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chriztofur* /forum/post/11372101
> 
> 
> This is off topic, I suppose, and 'Allo to all here..
> 
> 
> I just received the 8300hdc, and I'm in the Ohio city area..it has the SARA UI, which, imo, is terrible..cruddy graphics, and no options for first run/reruns on season passes..bleh..
> 
> 
> Anyone know if they're going to be upgrading this area to passport, if there's a way I can get my hands on a box with passport on it?



As they pointed out to you you're stuck with SARA unless you go to you're nearby CC, Best Buy, or on line and purchase the new TiVo HD for 299.00. You will have to pay for you're own DVR but you will be much happier.


----------



## chriztofur




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11372765
> 
> 
> As they pointed out to you you're stuck with SARA unless you go to you're nearby CC, Best Buy, or on line and purchase the new TiVo HD for 299.00. You will have to pay for you're own DVR but you will be much happier.



yeah, that's probably the way to go..i used tivo for a year until we "upgraded" to the 8300hdc..bleh.i just don't want to pay that much.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/11372750
> 
> 
> Not sure what you're getting at here.



Since I subscribe to their basic service, by law thay have to make available to me, the local digital channels in HD via QAM. They can not make me pay for a digital package to receive those channels... unless all they have available is digital, which means they would have to do away with analog in order to implement that.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11373127
> 
> 
> Since I subscribe to their basic service, by law thay have to make available to me, the local digital channels in HD via QAM. They can not make me pay for a digital package to receive those channels... unless all they have available is digital, which means they would have to do away with analog in order to implement that.



That is a common misunderstanding. It's actually the reverse. If they get rid of the analog locals, then the digital locals must be offered unencrypted and/or they must provide a cable box for every television in the home.


This is the most applicable quote:


> Quote:
> We believe that it would facilitate the digital transition to permit cable operators that are carrying a broadcast station's analog signal on the basic tier to carry that broadcast station's digital signal on a digital tier pursuant to retransmission consent.



Most cable providers, as a courtesy or in accordance with their retransmission agreement, transmit the local digitals in the clear.


Here's the full document which is a pretty informative read:
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Ord...1/fcc01022.pdf


----------



## Smarty-pants

Agree to disagree on how the law is interpreted.

I do know several people who work for TW and my brother worked for them like 15 years. So I do know that TW does not give things to their customers as a courtesy. If they didn't have to provide certain channels to people without "paying" for them, then they wouldn't. They're all about the all-mighty dollar. So IF the law is being misinterpreted, it is by TW as well. They only provide those "additional" channels to customers because they believe they have to.

Like I said though, agree to disagree as I'm not trying to "start anything"







.


----------



## schandorsky

I have Time Warner in the Elyria/Mentor area. The hd channels we have in the clear are the Cleveland local ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, UPN and we just got WVIZ, plus two local SD weather channels. When we had comcast we also could receive "The Tube", but we can't now. We can not pick up any other digital channels without a box or cablecard.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11373620
> 
> 
> Like I said though, agree to disagree as I'm not trying to "start anything"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



No, anyone with a name like "Smarty-pants" would ever do anything like that.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11374553
> 
> 
> No, anyone with a name like "Smarty-pants" would ever do anything like that.


----------



## ajstan99

FWIW, I have WOW Basic service (no digital or movie channels). Back when WOW did not offer the local stations via clear QAM, I called customer service and they gave me a cable box that gets the following channels:


200 - ABCHD

201 - CBSHD

202 - FOXHD

203 - NBCHD

204 - MyNetworkTV HD

218 - A&E HD

220 - Fox Sports Ohio HD

221 - SportsTime Ohio HD

493 - Starz HD

500 - 546 Music Choice


Now that they offer some clear QAM channels, I can get 200-204, the Music Choice stations, as well as the Tube, Weather Plus, and Weather Now, but no A&E, FSO, STO, or Starz. (I still get to keep the HD box at no charge.)


If I want the "HD Pak" with an additional 9 channels like ESPN, TNT, Discovery HD Theater, etc., they tell me that I would have to first upgrade to Digital Cable.


----------



## paule123

CBS released their HD schedule for weeks 1 and 2 of the regular season. Browns will be HD both weeks. I think a pig just flew by the window...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892890 


Ooops - make that week 1 in HD against the Steelers. Not week 2.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Seuuuuuweei!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11378263
> 
> 
> CBS released their HD schedule for weeks 1 and 2 of the regular season. Browns will be HD both weeks. I think a pig just flew by the window...
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892890
> 
> 
> Ooops - make that week 1 in HD against the Steelers. Not week 2.



So....did you see a pig fly or not?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11373620
> 
> 
> Agree to disagree on how the law is interpreted.



I would still recommend you read the FCC document as it does provide some insight.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11378263
> 
> 
> CBS released their HD schedule for weeks 1 and 2 of the regular season. Browns will be HD both weeks. I think a pig just flew by the window...
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892890
> 
> 
> Ooops - make that week 1 in HD against the Steelers. Not week 2.



Great news! CBS did say earlier this year they are going to broadcast 5-6 games a week in HD. 


If that holds true, we should see most all of the Browns games in HD once the bye weeks and Thursday games roll around.....


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/11381389
> 
> 
> I would still recommend you read the FCC document as it does provide some insight.



I have already. Thanks.


----------



## jgards2

I did a quick search in this thread but didn't have any luck... I'm in downtown Akron, with an powered indoor Antenna next to my TV. I receive Fox and ABC in high definition, but I cannot pick up NBC or CBS. Has anyone else had a similar problem?


----------



## kinglerch

Some channels are more difficult to get than others. Some channels are UHF, some are VHF, and some antennas don't do both real well. If your TV and indoor antenna aren't on an upper floor and near a window, you may have trouble.


I recommend getting the biggest antenna you can, putting it as high up as you can, as outside as you can, and have an amplifier as close to it as you can. The more of these you can do, the more luck I think you'll have.


----------



## jgards2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/11382641
> 
> 
> Some channels are more difficult to get than others. Some channels are UHF, some are VHF, and some antennas don't do both real well. If your TV and indoor antenna aren't on an upper floor and near a window, you may have trouble.
> 
> 
> I recommend getting the biggest antenna you can, putting it as high up as you can, as outside as you can, and have an amplifier as close to it as you can. The more of these you can do, the more luck I think you'll have.



I have a Terk HDTVa Indoor antenna with a Samsung 5265f. I live in a condo (first floor) with tall buildings around me. Are there any other options that you can think of? Should I stop hoping and switch to TWC?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11382768
> 
> 
> I have a Terk HDTVa Indoor antenna with a Samsung 5265f. I live in a condo (first floor) with tall buildings around me. Are there any other options that you can think of? Should I stop hoping and switch to TWC?



Just my opinion, which I've expressed many times but all these problems with antennas and where the towers are seem to be a big pia, and you can get more HD with cable or satellite.


However I will grant you that if you can find something that works for you and you don't mind missing great HD series on TNT like The Closer and such, not to mention the excellent programming that FX gives which again IMHO is better then HBO then go with the antenna.


BTW, we don't have FX in HD - yet. Hopefully, one day.


----------



## jgards2

Is it possible that CBS and NBC don't have strong output? ABC and Fox are 23 miles away and about 348 degrees per antennaweb.org. CBS and NBC are about the same compass and distance!!! I really want football in HD this fall.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11382441
> 
> 
> I did a quick search in this thread but didn't have any luck... I'm in downtown Akron, with an powered indoor Antenna next to my TV. I receive Fox and ABC in high definition, but I cannot pick up NBC or CBS. Has anyone else had a similar problem?



Does your TV have a QAM tuner? If so, you could just subscribe to the lifeline basic($10.74/mo.) package and get all the local HD channels plus a few national HD channels that are in the clear.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11382768
> 
> 
> I have a Terk HDTVa Indoor antenna with a Samsung 5265f. I live in a condo (first floor) with tall buildings around me. Are there any other options that you can think of? Should I stop hoping and switch to TWC?



I don't think you'll have much luck with that scanario. But to answer the question of _why bother?_ there are many great reasons to invest time and money in antennas.


o It's free, after purchasing the antenna

o It's another option if the sat/cable goes down or you're taping other things

o There are many more channels and subchannels available than offered by sat/cable

o The quality is (typically) better than sat/cable

o In many cases like mine, I can get multiple NBCs, CBSs, FOXs, .... When something is preempted or blacked out you can always go between Cleveland, Youngstown, Akron, Pittsburgh, or whatever you are able to reach.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/11386205
> 
> 
> I don't think you'll have much luck with that scanario. But to answer the question of _why bother?_ there are many great reasons to invest time and money in antennas.
> 
> 
> o The quality is (typically) better than sat/cable



You qualified this by saying "typically" but everything I've read over the last 3 years indicates that is highly debatable. Several factors come into play including what type of television you have.


I'm inclined to say that there is no difference to "most" of your average viewers. A true videofile may see a difference. Further, TW doesn't compress their signal so there really shouldn't be any difference. Even people with D* which does compress locals have indicated that their picture is excellent.


----------



## jgards2

My Samsung TV does have a QAM tuner, but I don't watch my television, I mainly want to receive HDTV Football. The TV is mostly for movies and games. Any other ideas?


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11386701
> 
> 
> You qualified this by saying "typically" but everything I've read over the last 3 years indicates that is highly debatable. Several factors come into play including what type of television you have.
> 
> 
> I'm inclined to say that there is no difference to "most" of your average viewers. A true videofile may see a difference. Further, TW doesn't compress their signal so there really shouldn't be any difference. Even people with D* which does compress locals have indicated that their picture is excellent.



Of course what you see depends on the TV and viewer's ability to pick out detail. I've seen D*'s locals for Cleveland and they do look excellent, but when switching to the antenna it looks better.


I'm not knocking any solution for local channels. Only stating that for the time/money I spent on the antenna and save by not paying for a local package, it's hard to beat 40+ free digital channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/11388018
> 
> 
> I'm not knocking any solution for local channels. Only stating that for the time/money I spent on the antenna and save by not paying for a local package, it's hard to beat 40+ free digital channels.



I knew that you can pick up OTA other cities channels and their subs but that's a heck of a lot of channels. I don't want you to go through the trouble of listing all you receive but can you give me an idea of what you get that would be different?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/11388018
> 
> 
> Of course what you see depends on the TV and viewer's ability to pick out detail. I've seen D*'s locals for Cleveland and they do look excellent, but when switching to the antenna it looks better.
> 
> 
> I'm not knocking any solution for local channels. Only stating that for the time/money I spent on the antenna and save by not paying for a local package, it's hard to beat 40+ free digital channels.



I have a rooftop antenna with excellent reception (we're around six miles south of the antenna farm). Plus I have D* and a couple HR-20's with MPEG4 locals. There is no way I can imagine any difference on the 32" Samsung LCD flatscreen in the den. Even on the 60" SXRD in the family room, I really can't tell any qualitative difference. Only real advantage of the antenna is that I don't get any "rain fade" in a storm.


I installed the antenna around 6 years ago with my first HD TV. I would not bother today with D*'s MPEG4 technology and 50 HD stations by end of year (over 100 by end of next year).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11388656
> 
> 
> I would not bother today with D*'s MPEG4 technology and 50 HD stations by end of year (over 100 by end of next year).



Ugh, don't get me started on that. OK you already did.










I don't know what D* has in mind but there is no way they will have "up to 150" legitimate different HD channels by end of this year or next year. I suspect many of those channels will be "on demand" type channels.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11389127
> 
> 
> Ugh, don't get me started on that. OK you already did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what D* has in mind but there is no way they will have "up to 150" legitimate different HD channels by end of this year or next year. I suspect many of those channels will be "on demand" type channels.



I've read about their creative channel counting. If they have 1 "on demand" channel from which you can choose from a list of 20 free movies in HD, that counts as 20 channels. Go figure.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11388267
> 
> 
> I knew that you can pick up OTA other cities channels and their subs but that's a heck of a lot of channels. I don't want you to go through the trouble of listing all you receive but can you give me an idea of what you get that would be different?



Essentially there is NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, Religious, Shopping, Spanish, and WE-type networks (43, 55, etc). They come in for me from Cleve, Akron, and Youngstown - most with subchannels. I think the last scan I did turned up 42 or so.


There's nothing different _necessarily_ (especially if you turn off the 10 religious/shopping/spanish channels) but the repeated networks give more options during football season, if a channel goes down, different news, and weather subchannels. This is just not possible with sat/cable.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11388656
> 
> 
> I have a rooftop antenna with excellent reception (we're around six miles south of the antenna farm). Plus I have D* and a couple HR-20's with MPEG4 locals. There is no way I can imagine any difference on the 32" Samsung LCD flatscreen in the den. Even on the 60" SXRD in the family room, I really can't tell any qualitative difference. Only real advantage of the antenna is that I don't get any "rain fade" in a storm.



Really? Not even with the SXRD? That's the TV I was using (60A2020). Please try it sometime during a baseball game or something. Do an A-B comparison, ask yourself if you can tell which one your on.


----------



## jgards2

Let me summarize:


Receive 3.1 + 5.1 (crystal clear)

Do not receive 3.1, 3, 19.1, 19 (no picture at all)


Could it be a tuner (Samsung LNT5265f) or antenna (TERK HDTVa) issue? Or is this a broadcasting issue?


I receive PBS and the TN station no problem.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11389127
> 
> 
> Ugh, don't get me started on that. OK you already did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what D* has in mind but there is no way they will have "up to 150" legitimate different HD channels by end of this year or next year. I suspect many of those channels will be "on demand" type channels.



What they've said is that they will "have room" for 150 HD nationals before end of next year (i.e., after they launch the next satellite). They have published their 50 plus available by the end of this year (they add most of them in September). Believe I've seen a list projecting 100 by end of next year and that does include their normal number of "on demand" channels. But the key is that they will not be bandwidth constrained (they can pick up anything as it becomes available) and their MPEG4 quality is great.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11384744
> 
> 
> Is it possible that CBS and NBC don't have strong output? ABC and Fox are 23 miles away and about 348 degrees per antennaweb.org. CBS and NBC are about the same compass and distance!!! I really want football in HD this fall.



*IF* you can use an outdoor antenna, you will have better luck. Indoor antennae just don't cut it, especially when your building has alot of metal in and on it.


Your second strike is you are low in the building. If you look out the window, there are hills, trees and other larger buildings in your line of sight. If you use the map accurately on antennaweb, you can ballpark the direction you must "see" in.


I'm going to assume (yeah i know, i know...) that you are in the new condos on Northside. Regardless of where you are, if your antenna isn't in a window on the north side of the building, you're done.


I'm in Highland Square, and just got my first HDTV. I planned on an antenna as a backup to TWC being TWC, and was considering placement in my northern eave of the attic, as I have a 3 story house, including the attic.


Fortunately, TWC broadcasts many if not all of the local HD channels in the clear. I have only the Lifeline Basic, which is the bottom 23 channels, and the HD clear channels which are positioned in the low RF 100s. My TV just doesn't label them properly, and I can't seem to override it.


----------



## jgards2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11395299
> 
> 
> *IF* you can use an outdoor antenna, you will have better luck. Indoor antennae just don't cut it, especially when your building has alot of metal in and on it.
> 
> 
> Your second strike is you are low in the building. If you look out the window, there are hills, trees and other larger buildings in your line of sight. If you use the map accurately on antennaweb, you can ballpark the direction you must "see" in.
> 
> 
> I'm going to assume (yeah i know, i know...) that you are in the new condos on Northside. Regardless of where you are, if your antenna isn't in a window on the north side of the building, you're done.
> 
> 
> I'm in Highland Square, and just got my first HDTV. I planned on an antenna as a backup to TWC being TWC, and was considering placement in my northern eave of the attic, as I have a 3 story house, including the attic.
> 
> 
> Fortunately, TWC broadcasts many if not all of the local HD channels in the clear. I have only the Lifeline Basic, which is the bottom 23 channels, and the HD clear channels which are positioned in the low RF 100s. My TV just doesn't label them properly, and I can't seem to override it.




I'm actually at the Landings near downtown Akron. Unfortunately, an outoor antenna is not an option. The big question I have, is that all of the major local stations are exactly the same distance and same compass and I only receive 2 out of 4??????????


----------



## Rambozo

Channel 3.x broadcast digitally on VHF 2, a known flaw, especially when in the low end of the band. 19.1 is also on VHF, but at 10.


Supposedly, WKYC will be bumping up to UHF in the near future. Something to do with licensing and/or equipment. I can't remember exactly.


----------



## jgards2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11396051
> 
> 
> Channel 3.x broadcast digitally on VHF 2, a known flaw, especially when in the low end of the band. 19.1 is also on VHF, but at 10.
> 
> 
> Supposedly, WKYC will be bumping up to UHF in the near future. Something to do with licensing and/or equipment. I can't remember exactly.



So it is broadcasting! Thanks Rambozo. Do you have any idea when they will be upgrading? Also, have any Akron residents been able to get Youngstown stations?


On a side note, what does the lifeline TWC cost?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Lifeline basic (channels 2-22) should cost somewhere between $12-$15 per month depending on what area you live in. Mine costs less that $13 per month after all taxes and fees etc...

If you have a QAM tuner, you should be able to receive all the "local" channels in HD with that package.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11397193
> 
> 
> On a side note, what does the lifeline TWC cost?



As an Akron resident, I'm paying $11.54 including taxes, etc.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11397193
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea when they will be upgrading?



Well it may be outdated info. Backtracking my steps, I found a couple mentions of WKYC moving to UHF 17 in 2009, but the FCC pages don't reflect that. At one time, they supposedly did.


One good thing about cable is a consistent experience without the antenna hassle.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgards2* /forum/post/11397193
> 
> 
> So it is broadcasting! Thanks Rambozo. Do you have any idea when they will be upgrading? Also, have any Akron residents been able to get Youngstown stations?



Well maybe not totally broadcasting but maybe more reception - of your antenna. I live in Kent and get channel 3.1, 3.2 rock solid, better than any other station. I am using a Winegard Sensor II amplified antenna. It is supposedly strong in the VHF range. I don't get 19.1 very well, but I hear they don't transmit strongly either. Most Channelmaster and Winegard antenna spec sheets will give you a sensitivity plot for a particular antenna. So what you may only need is a different (or additional) antenna. Although I do not have a rotor I can pick up Youngstown stations despite being pointed towards Parma.


----------



## clevemkt

Here is the "final" table of allocations for stations in the area (FCC mid August 2007). It also lists "DTV ERP"... the effective output from the antenna. "HAAT" is essentially how high the antenna is.

The DTV channels were, for the most part, elected by the stations. The FCC originally assigned channels, but later allowed the stations to select the assigned channel, their NTSC channel, or negotiate a different channel.

Most stations ran from the low-VHF channels... prone to multi-path, man-made interference, etc. Stations tried to keep away from adjacent channels that might interfere with them. (As it turns out, 2nd adjacents may cause more interference than first adjacents.)

DTV tuners have very poor selectivity. Instead of being double-conversion, they are being built cheap... single-conversion. All of this interference can cause a station's signal to be un-decodable.

WKYC's current ERP on CH2 is 8 kW... but notice they are going to CH 17 at 1000 kW on Feb 17, 2009. That should be a big help. WOIO is on CH 10 now at 3.5 kW. Is that a Canadian issue (protecting a station in Canada on 10)?

WYTV at 50 kW.

Unless the FCC allows waivers, the stations are locked into these until after 2009.


Sorry this chart doesn't lineup as it does when composing... NTSC ch is first, DTV is second, ERP third, HAAT is last...


State and City NTSC DTV

Chan Chan ERP (kW) HAAT (m)

OH AKRON 23 23 317 296

OH AKRON 55 30 1000 334

OH AKRON 49 50 180 305

OH ALLIANCE 45 45 388 223

OH CANTON 17 39 200 292

OH CANTON 67 47 1000 134

OH CLEVE 8 8 15.7 305

OH CLEVEL 5 15 1000 311

OH CLEVEL 3 17 1000 296

OH CLEVEL 25 26 100 313

OH CLEVEL 61 34 525 334

OH LORAIN 43 28 200 337

OH SHAKER 19 10 3.5 304

OH YOUNGS 21 20 460 295

OH YOUNGS 33 36 50 148

OH YOUNGS 27 41 700 418


----------



## jgards2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/11398601
> 
> 
> Well maybe not totally broadcasting but maybe more reception - of your antenna. I live in Kent and get channel 3.1, 3.2 rock solid, better than any other station. I am using a Winegard Sensor II amplified antenna. It is supposedly strong in the VHF range. I don't get 19.1 very well, but I hear they don't transmit strongly either. Most Channelmaster and Winegard antenna spec sheets will give you a sensitivity plot for a particular antenna. So what you may only need is a different (or additional) antenna. Although I do not have a rotor I can pick up Youngstown stations despite being pointed towards Parma.



The TERK HDTVa claims to have both UHF and VHF, but I'm guessing it doesn't pick up the VHF well? Is there another Indoor atenna that receives both UHF and VHF well?


----------



## Rambozo

Your biggest obstacle is being forced indoors with your antenna. Your second obstacle is altitude. You are in a lower lying area (relatively speaking), on the ground floor. Go outside and look towards a little left of due north. If you can't see clearly for miles, neither can your antenna. Maybe you can relocate your indoor antenna higher in the building?


Be sure to thoroughly read the antennaweb.org FAQ .


You may be happier with TWC's Lifeline Basic. Just don't mention HDTV or they'll hard sell you into Digital+HDTV for way too much money.


All I did was connect my existing cable to the TV, and scanned for cable digital channels, then for the analog channels.


----------



## stuart628

anyone notice that time warner changed the fox sports ohio channel to just read ohio? at least they did on my mystro box (several things are different on this box including movies that show up on HBO on demand)


----------



## Lighting Guy

To bring up a past issue, when I lived in dayton, TWC did NOT carry the NBC affiliate's DTV broadcast via QAM, in the clear or otherwise. If you wanted WDTN-DT you had to get it OTA. Everybody on this forum said some legal mumbo jumbo, and they (TWC and NBC) won't come to an agreement. (Who knows what will happen in Feb '09 though.)


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/11399045
> 
> 
> Here is the "final" table of allocations for stations in the area (FCC mid August 2007). It also lists "DTV ERP"... the effective output from the antenna. "HAAT" is essentially how high the antenna is.
> 
> The DTV channels were, for the most part, elected by the stations. The FCC originally assigned channels, but later allowed the stations to select the assigned channel, their NTSC channel, or negotiate a different channel.
> 
> Most stations ran from the low-VHF channels... prone to multi-path, man-made interference, etc. Stations tried to keep away from adjacent channels that might interfere with them. (As it turns out, 2nd adjacents may cause more interference than first adjacents.)
> 
> DTV tuners have very poor selectivity. Instead of being double-conversion, they are being built cheap... single-conversion. All of this interference can cause a station's signal to be un-decodable.
> 
> WKYC's current ERP on CH2 is 8 kW... but notice they are going to CH 17 at 1000 kW on Feb 17, 2009. That should be a big help. WOIO is on CH 10 now at 3.5 kW. Is that a Canadian issue (protecting a station in Canada on 10)?
> 
> WYTV at 50 kW.
> 
> Unless the FCC allows waivers, the stations are locked into these until after 2009.
> 
> 
> Sorry this chart doesn't lineup as it does when composing... NTSC ch is first, DTV is second, ERP third, HAAT is last...
> 
> 
> State and City NTSC DTV
> 
> Chan Chan ERP (kW) HAAT (m)
> 
> OH AKRON 23 23 317 296
> 
> OH AKRON 55 30 1000 334
> 
> OH AKRON 49 50 180 305
> 
> OH ALLIANCE 45 45 388 223
> 
> OH CANTON 17 39 200 292
> 
> OH CANTON 67 47 1000 134
> 
> OH CLEVE 8 8 15.7 305
> 
> OH CLEVEL 5 15 1000 311
> 
> OH CLEVEL 3 17 1000 296
> 
> OH CLEVEL 25 26 100 313
> 
> OH CLEVEL 61 34 525 334
> 
> OH LORAIN 43 28 200 337
> 
> OH SHAKER 19 10 3.5 304
> 
> OH YOUNGS 21 20 460 295
> 
> OH YOUNGS 33 36 50 148
> 
> OH YOUNGS 27 41 700 418



You would have thought that WOIO would have requested a move to a channel that allowed them to use more power.


But wait, would that not cost them more money for electricity; and aren't they the one major affiliate in Cleveland that won't budget a few thousand to provide Dolby Digital audio?


Do I sense a common denominator here? It's called CHEAP!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11401198
> 
> 
> Do I sense a common denominator here? It's called CHEAP!



Actually for the Superbowl last year they "magically" acquired Dolby 5.1 then the next week they killed it with some bull s**t reason.


Yes, we all know they are the cheapest of the cheap.


----------



## TechWhore

Hey all I live in shaker heights in an apartment on the 2nd floor. I recently just bought a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 tuner for a computer I'm building.


The issue is I need a good indoor antenna to pick up the OTA signal, unfortunately the windows of my apartment face at around 100°-170° and most of the channels in Cleveland from my apartment are at around 240°.


Reference from http://www.antennaweb.org 


DTV Call Sign Channel Compass Miles


WEWS 5 243° 11.5
*

WEWS-DT 5.1 243° 11.4

WOIO 9 243° 9.9
*

WOIO-DT19.1 243° 9.9

WUAB 43 245° 11.4
*

WUAB-DT 43.1 245° 11.4

WQHS 61 243° 10.4
*

WQHS-DT61.1 243° 10.4

WKYC 3 242° 9.8
*

WKYC-DT 3.1 242° 9.8

WVIZ 25 238° 13.7

WJW 8 240° 11.8
*

WJW-DT 8.1 240° 11.8

WBNX 55 242° 10.1
*

WBNX-DT 55.1 242° 10.1

WCDN-LP 53 242° 10.1

W35AX 35] 242° 10.1
*

WVIZ-DT 25.1 238° 13.8

WVPX 23 193° 28.1

WEAO 49 198° 27.2

W51BI 51 99° 12.6

WOAC 67 165° 27.0

WGGN 52 274° 65.2


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/11394660
> 
> 
> Really? Not even with the SXRD? That's the TV I was using (60A2020). Please try it sometime during a baseball game or something. Do an A-B comparison, ask yourself if you can tell which one your on.



Gotta chime in on this. I'm VERY picky about my live sports and haven't picked up on any difference between the mpeg4 locals on D* and OTA. Other than the usual disadvantage of 1080i following fast action they appear to be identical to me with an SXRD tv. About a year ago there were some frightful growing pains when the D* digital locals were first unveiled but this has been all cleaned up.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/11406065
> 
> 
> Gotta chime in on this. I'm VERY picky about my live sports and haven't picked up on any difference between the mpeg4 locals on D* and OTA. Other than the usual disadvantage of 1080i following fast action they appear to be identical to me with an SXRD tv. About a year ago there were some frightful growing pains when the D* digital locals were first unveiled but this has been all cleaned up.



Glad to hear some reassurance. I am finally making the switch from E* to D* with a scheduled installation tomorrow morning. One of the main deciding factors was to be able to access dependable locals and be on board with the Big Ten Network!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11395214
> 
> 
> What they've said is that they will "have room" for 150 HD nationals before end of next year (i.e., after they launch the next satellite). They have published their 50 plus available by the end of this year (they add most of them in September). Believe I've seen a list projecting 100 by end of next year and that does include their normal number of "on demand" channels. But the key is that they will not be bandwidth constrained (they can pick up anything as it becomes available) and their MPEG4 quality is great.



Whether or not they have room for 150 channels in my opinion is not the issue. The issue is they are using deceptive advertising on their commercials.


Now I don't want to say that what they are doing is much more different then cable does ("You can have digital TV for only 39.95 - if you bundle") but the assurance of a promise seems to be more apparent to me.


Still, buyer beware. I know and you know that they arn't going to have that many channels but I'll bet that many people have switched just due to that advertisement.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/11406065
> 
> 
> Gotta chime in on this. I'm VERY picky about my live sports and haven't picked up on any difference between the mpeg4 locals on D* and OTA. Other than the usual disadvantage of 1080i following fast action they appear to be identical to me with an SXRD tv. About a year ago there were some frightful growing pains when the D* digital locals were first unveiled but this has been all cleaned up.



I agree. I'm VERY picky myself







, Panny 50" 1080p plasma. Really can't tell the difference between the D* MPEG4 locals on the HR20 vs. OTA or WOW cable.


WOIO and WKYC could have perfect 1080i PQ like STO if only they'd stop multicasting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11408208
> 
> 
> I agree. I'm VERY picky myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , Panny 50" 1080p plasma. Really can't tell the difference between the D* MPEG4 locals on the HR20 vs. OTA or WOW cable.
> 
> 
> WOIO and WKYC could have perfect 1080i PQ like STO if only they'd stop multicasting.




This is exactly what I've heard not only here but at other areas in the AVS Forum. That's why I said it is "highly debatable" about OTA being better then either cable or D*.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11407328
> 
> 
> Whether or not they have room for 150 channels in my opinion is not the issue. The issue is they are using deceptive advertising on their commercials.
> 
> 
> Now I don't want to say that what they are doing is much more different then cable does ("You can have digital TV for only 39.95 - if you bundle") but the assurance of a promise seems to be more apparent to me.
> 
> 
> Still, buyer beware. I know and you know that they arn't going to have that many channels but I'll bet that many people have switched just due to that advertisement.



I don't pay attention to their advertising. I have read their applicable press releases and they are addressing capacity when detailing any numbers after this year.


D* has been an easy target for years. I've complained as much as any about their HD Lite. But I considered their programming plus the HD Tivo as the best option available at that time.


In the last year I again evaluated all my options. At the end of the process, I surprised myself by deciding that D* was still the best for me. I've switched to the HR20s and they are now a better platform that my old HD Tivo, which is now boxed and sitting in my basement's graveyard for old audio/video components.


D*'s primary plus for me was the HR20, quality of MPEG4 (i.e., end of HD lite), and an architecture to provide pretty much an unlimited number of future national HD stations.


Everything that we normally watch, except FNC, will be available HD within the next couple months. That includes my wife's HGTV and Food network.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11409180
> 
> 
> In the last year I again evaluated all my options. At the end of the process, I surprised myself by deciding that D* was still the best for me. I've switched to the HR20s and they are now a better platform that my old HD Tivo, which is now boxed and sitting in my basement's graveyard for old audio/video components.




I haven't seen the HR20 so it would be unfair to compare it to the old Direct TV TiVo based DVR which is what you are talking about. But let's make sure that *IS* what you are talking about because if you think the HR20 is better then my S3, or even the new HD TiVo (cable + ota) then pardon me while I walk on outside to have a laughing fit. All the additional features that the TiVo's have IMHO make them the better unit.


I will grant you that as strictly a DVR if you are able to get stations like FX and USA on HD now, hats off to D*.


----------



## jtscherne

I don't know anything about the S3 Tivo, but I'll take the larger HD capacity D* will have over a specific DVR. When I first switched from E* earlier this year, the HR20 unit was pretty lackluster, but it continues to get better.


However you want to count the number of actual HD channels D* will have, it will still be more than E* or U* (I guess that's what we'll call U-Verse!). And it will definitely be more than any of the cable companies. Literally the only thing that I miss about Time Warner is the lack of WVIZ-DT. Frankly if they ever get their antenna up that will be a moot point too.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11409947
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the HR20 so it would be unfair to compare it to the old Direct TV TiVo based DVR which is what you are talking about. But let's make sure that *IS* what you are talking about because if you think the HR20 is better then my S3, or even the new HD TiVo (cable + ota) then pardon me while I walk on outside to have a laughing fit. All the additional features that the TiVo's have IMHO make them the better unit.
> 
> 
> I will grant you that as strictly a DVR if you are able to get stations like FX and USA on HD now, hats off to D*.



I was talking about the HR10-250. Strange that you say since you haven't seen the HR20 you can't compare it to the old HD Tivo; but you turn around and compare it to the S3.


If your "laughing fit" is over, how about naming a few of those "additional features" the Tivo's have.


Reason that I decided against the S3 was purchase cost, they are used with bandwidth constrained cable, and the only way they can significantly increase bandwidth is to implement SDV which will cripple the S3 (yes it will somewhat work; but definitely not as designed).


I've never said the HR20 is better than the S3. But my above paragraph now says why I decided it was better for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11411518
> 
> 
> I've never said the HR20 is better than the S3. But my above paragraph now says why I decided it was better for me.



I'm not ignoring you're request for additional features of the S3 vs. HR20 but since there is an "HD TiVo" now I wanted to point out that you were indeed talking about the HR10-250. Sorry about the laughing comment, that was uncalled for.


OK, some of the things you can do with the S3 that you can't do with HR20 is you can purchase or rent movies from Amazon.com and have it downloaded directly to your TiVo. I acknowledge you have pay per view but you can't actually purchase a movie. I don't believe D* offers specials on there ppv for 99 cents, Amazon does.


A new feature just recently added was Universal Swivel Search. Let's say you like a particular actor, Swivel Search will find not only current shows on cable but also movies available at Amazon. Swivel also allows you to kind of "bounce around" where you start with maybe a terminology and it will take you to various things. It's a bit difficult for me to describe but it really is a cool feature.


You can download podcast to your S3 and even if it isn't listed on TiVos podcast if you have a URL you can punch that in and it will get it for you. I recently did this with John Lennons "Rolling Stone" interview which was in 5 parts. Pretty awesome.


I don't know if the HR20 allows you to have eSATA, you can with the S3. With my eSATA I have 98 hours HD and 992 hours standard definition.


TiVo Cast - a variety of things from news to comedy you can get directly from TiVo's site to your S3.


I can play my entire library of music from my computer through my S3.


We are waiting still for Multi Room Viewing and TiVo to go. Rumor has it however that HD will not be available for that.


You can actually send home movies to someone elses computer with the S3. That's a service, cost a few bucks. I don't use it.


There may be more but that's all that comes to mind.


Now if I didn't have trees that block my view from receiving D* I probably would have gone with the HR20. At that time I had no idea of D*'s HD plans. I think D* is a good deal, and my understanding of the HR20 is it is a good DVR. But overall I think the S3 with it's internet capabilities makes it a better DVR.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11412311
> 
> 
> I'm not ignoring you're request for additional features of the S3 vs. HR20 but since there is an "HD TiVo" now I wanted to point out that you were indeed talking about the HR10-250. Sorry about the laughing comment, that was uncalled for.
> 
> 
> OK, some of the things you can do with the S3 that you can't do with HR20 is you can purchase or rent movies from Amazon.com and have it downloaded directly to your TiVo. I acknowledge you have pay per view but you can't actually purchase a movie. I don't believe D* offers specials on there ppv for 99 cents, Amazon does.
> 
> 
> A new feature just recently added was Universal Swivel Search. Let's say you like a particular actor, Swivel Search will find not only current shows on cable but also movies available at Amazon. Swivel also allows you to kind of "bounce around" where you start with maybe a terminology and it will take you to various things. It's a bit difficult for me to describe but it really is a cool feature.
> 
> 
> You can download podcast to your S3 and even if it isn't listed on TiVos podcast if you have a URL you can punch that in and it will get it for you. I recently did this with John Lennons "Rolling Stone" interview which was in 5 parts. Pretty awesome.
> 
> 
> I don't know if the HR20 allows you to have eSATA, you can with the S3. With my eSATA I have 98 hours HD and 992 hours standard definition.
> 
> 
> TiVo Cast - a variety of things from news to comedy you can get directly from TiVo's site to your S3.
> 
> 
> I can play my entire library of music from my computer through my S3.
> 
> 
> We are waiting still for Multi Room Viewing and TiVo to go. Rumor has it however that HD will not be available for that.
> 
> 
> You can actually send home movies to someone elses computer with the S3. That's a service, cost a few bucks. I don't use it.
> 
> 
> There may be more but that's all that comes to mind.
> 
> 
> Now if I didn't have trees that block my view from receiving D* I probably would have gone with the HR20. At that time I had no idea of D*'s HD plans. I think D* is a good deal, and my understanding of the HR20 is it is a good DVR. But overall I think the S3 with it's internet capabilities makes it a better DVR.



Thanks for the excellent, informative response.


I agree that the S3 has excellent features. That's their current niche. We ordered the HR10-250 "pre-release" and loved it for the entire time it was in our family room. We gave it up only to get ready for D*'s MPEG4 nationals.


The HR20 does have a couple of the more valuable (my subjective opinion) features you cite for the S3. It does have e-SATA capability and networking/media center functionality (e.g., can play music from your pc files). I may implement the e-SATA functionality; but at the moment am not "thrilled" by the fact that the files are available only for that specific HR20 (i.e., if you must replace your HR20--you lose all your e-SATA files). I don't use the networking features because I prefer the increased functionality and much better performance specs available in my PS3.


I agree that the S3 is maybe a better DVR today and I would have chosen it, if it could have been used with D*. But, the HR20 firmware is updated pretty much every month and has improved significantly even in the couple months I've used it. It's the combination of the HR20 and D*'s major MPEG4 expansion that drove my decision to stay with D*. I do live on the north side of an east-west street and have a clean line of sight south-west opening for maybe 500-600 feet before I get to the heavy trees in the neighbors back yard.


Anyway, good luck with the S3 and your cable company. Hopefully, all our various providers and components will give good service.


----------



## AdamPS

I'm not sure if this is a stupid question or not. I live in Stow and just had Time Warner cable installed. Everything is working fine, except all of the On-Demand channels say "On-Demand is not available at this time." Is this a problem for anyone else, or do I need to call TWC and see if it is on my end?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/11420232
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is a stupid question or not. I live in Stow and just had Time Warner cable installed. Everything is working fine, except all of the On-Demand channels say "On-Demand is not available at this time." Is this a problem for anyone else, or do I need to call TWC and see if it is on my end?



Works fine for me. I'm in Bainbridge former Adelphia. I have heard some former Comcast customers say they cannot receive On Demand.


Call them.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/11420232
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this is a stupid question or not. I live in Stow and just had Time Warner cable installed. Everything is working fine, except all of the On-Demand channels say "On-Demand is not available at this time." Is this a problem for anyone else, or do I need to call TWC and see if it is on my end?



It's not a stupid question at all. It's probably one of two things; either your box hasn't established it's two-way path and gotten an IP address yet or the system is temporarily offline at their headend. I agree with Hookbill - call them and ask.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11408208
> 
> 
> I agree. I'm VERY picky myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , Panny 50" 1080p plasma. Really can't tell the difference between the D* MPEG4 locals on the HR20 vs. OTA or WOW cable.
> 
> 
> WOIO and WKYC could have perfect 1080i PQ like STO if only they'd stop multicasting.



Well, the D* installation went smooth on Saturday. It only took the guy 3 1/2 hours to hookup an HR20, H20 and a SD receiver! That 5LNB satellite on my roof is HUGE!







Anyways, just like to confirm that I also noticed no difference between the OTA HD's and the D* HD Locals. What a relief! Not to mention, there is now a huge monkey off my back now that I no longer have to worry about clouds, no clouds, snow, rain, wind, trees in full bloom and other interferences in achieving an uninterrupted HD signal! I am ready to start enjoying the upcoming fall network programing and NFL season in HD with no more annoying dropouts.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11433819
> 
> 
> Well, the D* installation went smooth on Saturday. It only took the guy 3 1/2 hours to hookup an HR20, H20 and a SD receiver! That 5LNB satellite on my roof is HUGE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, just like to confirm that I also noticed no difference between the OTA HD's and the D* HD Locals. What a relief! Not to mention, there is now a huge monkey off my back now that I no longer have to worry about clouds, no clouds, snow, rain, wind, trees in full bloom and other interferences in achieving an uninterrupted HD signal! I am ready to start enjoying the upcoming fall network programing and NFL season in HD with no more annoying dropouts.



Welcome to the HR20 group. Did you get the HR20-100? If so, and if your antenna is still connected, can you get channel 3-1 OTA with your HR20-100. I can't get it and believe it is a firmware issue (i.e., low vhf channels). Thanks.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11434166
> 
> 
> Welcome to the HR20 group. Did you get the HR20-100? If so, and if your antenna is still connected, can you get channel 3-1 OTA with your HR20-100. I can't get it and believe it is a firmware issue (i.e., low vhf channels). Thanks.



Not sure if it's the HR20-100 or 700. I will have to look when I get home. What is the advantage of connecting the OTA to the HR20? To create the ability to record 3 programs at once instead of 2?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11435402
> 
> 
> Not sure if it's the HR20-100 or 700. I will have to look when I get home. What is the advantage of connecting the OTA to the HR20? To create the ability to record 3 programs at once instead of 2?



Connecting an antenna gives you access to your DTV subchannels not carried by D*, DTV channels not carried by D* like PBS (in most areas), and a backup in case your satellite signal is interrupted.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Does anybody use the Samsung DTB-H260F external HDTV tuner and how do you like it?


----------



## beaver2672

Has anyone else in Medina on Armstrong (Digital) seen that they have removed 3,5,8,17,18,31 from the SD digital lineup on HD boxes? Also, all of my HD channels now display as Dolby D EX on my receiver (JVC RX-DP15). I'm assuming they were freeing up more bandwidth?


Does anyone know of any upcoming changes to Armstrong's lineup?


----------



## HD MM

As a side note, I watched my first Tribe game on STO-HD last night on D*. (Was never able to get STO-HD on E* because I couldn't access satellite 129, and was setup for 61.5 instead.)


After reading all of the dirty rumors knocking STO, I was expecting lousy PQ. And boy, was I wrong! I actually thought the STO-HD broadcast was absolutely stunning. I will even go as far to say that I thought it was better than the WKYC-HD Tribe broadcasts that I've seen in the past.


The best thing about last night's broadcast included a triple play in HD! Wow, was that sweet!







I'm gonna love watching these ever important home games next month all in glorious HD. Go Tribe!


For the record, I was viewing on a 42" 1080i Plasma.


----------



## beaver2672




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11444670
> 
> 
> As a side note, I watched my first Tribe game on STO-HD last night on D*. (Was never able to get STO-HD on E* because I couldn't access satellite 129, and was setup for 61.5 instead.)
> 
> 
> After reading all of the dirty rumors knocking STO, I was expecting lousy PQ. And boy, was I wrong! I actually thought the STO-HD broadcast was absolutely stunning. I will even go as far to say that I thought it was better than the WKYC-HD Tribe broadcasts that I've seen in the past.
> 
> 
> The best thing about last night's broadcast included a triple play in HD! Wow, was that sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna love watching these ever important home games next month all in glorious HD. Go Tribe!
> 
> 
> For the record, I was viewing on a 42" 1080i Plasma.



I totally agree with you! I think the STO-HD broadcasts have looked amazing!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11444670
> 
> 
> After reading all of the dirty rumors knocking STO, I was expecting lousy PQ. And boy, was I wrong! I actually thought the STO-HD broadcast was absolutely stunning. I will even go as far to say that I thought it was better than the WKYC-HD Tribe broadcasts that I've seen in the past.



When STO started last year they had a few hurtles to clear before they got it right. But I haven't heard anyone complain about STO's PQ in sometime. Don't know where you're getting that from.


As far as "better" then WKYC-HD, to me it's one and the same. But they do show more HD games on STO then on WKYC so enjoy!


----------



## jtscherne

It was great to go from MIN/CLE, NYY/DET, to CIN/ATL Football, all in great HD. I've been around here for many years and I remember what it was like when we were lucky to get Monday Night Football in HD!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11444780
> 
> 
> As far as "better" then WKYC-HD, to me it's one and the same. But they do show more HD games on STO then on WKYC so enjoy!



STO seems a bit better because they don't have the bandwidth stealing WeatherPlus that WKYC does. I notice a little bit of macroblocking on WKYC's graphics going in and out and on a very few select closeup, high motion plays during the baseball game. But I would say it's 95% of the STO PQ and can't really complain.


In either case, the PQ is spectacular compared to baseball in 720p on Fox or ESPN.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11444670
> 
> 
> The best thing about last night's broadcast included a triple play in HD! Wow, was that sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna love watching these ever important home games next month all in glorious HD. Go Tribe!



That was freakin' awesome







. My wife was coming into the room as it was happening and I stood up and yelled "YES, OH MY GOD. THAT WAS AWESOME" and she looks at me and said what's wrong with you? I said did you see that?... do you know how rare that is?... And she goes, "whatever".


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11445707
> 
> 
> That was freakin' awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . My wife was coming into the room as it was happening and I stood up and yelled "YES, OH MY GOD. THAT WAS AWESOME" and she looks at me and said what's wrong with you? I said did you see that?... do you know how rare that is?... And she goes, "whatever".



Yeah, I went bananas when it happened too. My wife missed the "live" version as she was nose deep in a book. I ended up replaying it about 6 times so she ended up seeing it anyways. I told her that she needs to remember where she was and what date this happened so she could reference this great and super rare achievement as we may never witness a triple play in our lives again.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11447117
> 
> 
> Yeah, I went bananas when it happened too. My wife missed the "live" version as she was nose deep in a book. I ended up replaying it about 6 times so she ended up seeing it anyways. I told her that she needs to remember where she was and what date this happened so she could reference this great and super rare achievement as we may never witness a triple play in our lives again.



Thankfully I was watching it on the DVR. I rewound it and hit record.



> Quote:
> But they do show more HD games on STO then on WKYC so enjoy!



HUH? Every Indians game on WKYC is in HD, unlike STO where only the home games are in HD. The only away games in HD this year were all on WKYC. True STO has many more games overall, but for the games scheduled it's WKYC 100% HD, while STO is only 50% or so HD.


It makes me wonder why STO can't do some away games in HD if WKYC is carrying one of the games from the series (i.e. the HD is already set-up for WKYC).


----------



## hookbill

Well they televise more home games then WKYC does home and away games. WKYC only does 20 games a year, the rest are on STO and if they are home they are in HD.


I don't see the confusion......


----------



## hookbill

Apologies to any females who check in here while we do a little guy talk.


Guys, has anybody else noticed that a little change in her hair style and my wife says some make up change and Melissa Mack on FOX 8 news has gone from just a "average cute" weather girl to "hot looking woman."


Hey, I'm 54 but I'm not dead.


----------



## gass

Oh ya! She's a hottie


----------



## Andrew K

I noticed that Best Buy is now carrying a 5" portable LCD TV equiped with an ATSC and analog tuner. I couldn't resist the temptation, so I bought it yesterday. The built-in analog tuner is kind of crappy, but the digital tuner is decent. The attached whip antenna isn't really meant to receive the digital stations very well, but the tv performs nicely when I attach an external antenna. It's nice that digital TV is finally portable, but the downside is that the tv cannot be moved much without a break in the picture.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11465152
> 
> 
> I noticed that Best Buy is now carrying a 5" portable LCD TV equiped with an ATSC and analog tuner. I couldn't resist the temptation, so I bought it yesterday. The built-in analog tuner is kind of crappy, but the digital tuner is decent. The attached whip antenna isn't really meant to receive the digital stations very well, but the tv performs nicely when I attach an external antenna. It's nice that digital TV is finally portable, but the downside is that the tv cannot be moved much without a break in the picture.



I suspect that the smaller cheapie tv sets aren't using the latest 5th generation ATSC tuners. Even the best tuner will never be able to completely deal with multipath, the worst enemy of ATSC-8VSB, the latest tuners have made strides towards this.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11465152
> 
> 
> I noticed that Best Buy is now carrying a 5" portable LCD TV equiped with an ATSC and analog tuner. I couldn't resist the temptation, so I bought it yesterday. The built-in analog tuner is kind of crappy, but the digital tuner is decent. The attached whip antenna isn't really meant to receive the digital stations very well, but the tv performs nicely when I attach an external antenna. It's nice that digital TV is finally portable, but the downside is that the tv cannot be moved much without a break in the picture.



Hmmm, good take along for a Tribe and/or Browns game?


----------



## dunner

Has anybody heard anything about any of the Cleveland Cable providers picking up WBNX-HD? The fall season's coming fast, and I really want to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD. I've contacted Cox several times, but haven't gotten any meaningful response.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dunner* /forum/post/11470129
> 
> 
> Has anybody heard anything about any of the Cleveland Cable providers picking up WBNX-HD? The fall season's coming fast, and I really want to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD. I've contacted Cox several times, but haven't gotten any meaningful response.



You would have to talk to a cable insider to get any kind of meaningful answer to that question. Trying to get that kind of information from a CSR would be a complete waste of time. I think it took over a year to get WVIZ added to TWC in Akron. The WBNX website at one time talked about providing a feed of their signal to the cable companies, way back before they even completed building their new transmitter, and that never happened. I want to see them get picked up by cable too, but luckily I can get them via OTA.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dunner* /forum/post/11470129
> 
> 
> Has anybody heard anything about any of the Cleveland Cable providers picking up WBNX-HD? The fall season's coming fast, and I really want to see Smallville and Supernatural in HD. I've contacted Cox several times, but haven't gotten any meaningful response.



I agree talking to a CSR won't help, but emails may. Of course they will send back the standard "we're working on it" reply but if you keep bugging them they get p.o'd and they will actually respond, or take notice.


I'm going to send one now.


Here's what I just sent them:

*WBNX has been in HD since last Spring. The new Fall season is almost here and yet you have not added it to your HD line up. What's the hang up?


And please don't send me your "standard" reply i.e. "we are negotiating with them". You said that last May when I asked.*


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11470968
> 
> 
> I agree talking to a CSR won't help, but emails may. Of course they will send back the standard "we're working on it" reply but if you keep bugging them they get p.o'd and they will actually respond, or take notice.
> 
> 
> I'm going to send one now.
> 
> 
> Here's what I just sent them:
> 
> *WBNX has been in HD since last Spring. The new Fall season is almost here and yet you have not added it to your HD line up. What's the hang up?
> 
> 
> And please don't send me your "standard" reply i.e. "we are negotiating with them". You said that last May when I asked.*



nice


----------



## Lighting Guy

In theory WBNX-HD would be broadcast QAM in the clear too right?


Let us know what (if) they say.


----------



## Andrew K

Just so you know, that 5" portable tv has a rather decent ATSC tuner. I traveled to northern Michigan today (Grayling), and it can still pick up several digitals here in the middle of nowhere. I still have to attach the silver sensor antenna, but it seems to perform equally as well as other digital tuners I've seen. The built-in whip antenna does not seem to do much, but I wouldn't expect it to do much with digital anyways.


----------



## Inundated

Is this the one, Andrew?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1171058029451 


The online check doesn't show it available at any local BB I can find...if that's wrong, I might run by a BB on the way home from work tomorrow.


----------



## Rambozo

I've noticed on the past 2 Browns games, and during their newscasts that the center channel audio is non-existent. The receiver shows Dolby Digital, and the TV says 5.1 in the info screen.


It's not my system, as all other digital channels output 5.1 and center audio is there.


I use TWC and receive my HD via clear QAM.


----------



## dunner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11475369
> 
> 
> In theory WBNX-HD would be broadcast QAM in the clear too right?
> 
> 
> Let us know what (if) they say.



In theory, it should be. If you're curious, though, please e-mail your cable provider as well. The more they're contacted, the more likely they are to do something about it. (And, big surprise, no response from Cox to my e-mail.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11480818
> 
> 
> I've noticed on the past 2 Browns games, and during their newscasts that the center channel audio is non-existent. The receiver shows Dolby Digital, and the TV says 5.1 in the info screen.
> 
> 
> It's not my system, as all other digital channels output 5.1 and center audio is there.
> 
> 
> I use TWC and receive my HD via clear QAM.



Their local news is not in Dolby 5.1, only in HD. I can't say for the Browns Games because the only time I've tuned them in is on my upstairs HD TV which doesn't have digital sound.


----------



## Rambozo

I'll have to do a bit more poking. I generally don't watch WKYC/NBC, short of games and the rare Law & Order (wife burned me out on that long ago.) I'll have to check during NBC prime time, etc.


The receiver never switched away from Dolby Digital during or after the Browns game last night, and that center channel never peeped until I changed over to Letterman.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dunner* /forum/post/11480958
> 
> 
> In theory, it should be. If you're curious, though, please e-mail your cable provider as well. The more they're contacted, the more likely they are to do something about it. (And, big surprise, no response from Cox to my e-mail.)



Yes fellow TW people please don't rely on my one email. They haven't responded yet so I need some more of you to send in emails and while I wouldn't say copy mine don't let them hand you a form letter for a reply.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Are we allowed to talk about Time Warner Cable Bills on here? I have a real doosey of a story to share. My cable bill went up almost 60% this month. I live in North Ridgeville.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/11484104
> 
> 
> Are we allowed to talk about Time Warner Cable Bills on here? I have a real doosey of a story to share. My cable bill went up almost 60% this month. I live in North Ridgeville.



Spill it. Give us the goods.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11484277
> 
> 
> Spill it. Give us the goods.



Yeah, I had a real good story a couple of months ago I wrote about What's yours?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/11484104
> 
> 
> Are we allowed to talk about Time Warner Cable Bills on here? I have a real doosey of a story to share. My cable bill went up almost 60% this month. I live in North Ridgeville.



Yeah come on. I'd love to hear this one.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I had negotiated a price of around $97 last September (was it still Comcast back then, I don't remember) for one year service with all the channels they offer, along with the $39.95 high speed internet access (I think it's the 2nd fastest internet access service they offer). This $97 price also included one Motorola 6412 cable box with no DVR features enabled, and one cable card for my Sony recorder. This did include all their digital channels and all the premium movie channels.


Anyways, my bill has been $97 a month since last September. I just got my newest bill and the new price is $155.67! That's almost a 60% increase! I called to confront them about this and the best they could do is $125 for exactly the services and features I have now, plus they would throw in a DVR cable box that including the full DVR features. I went ahead and dropped my service to Lifeline basic for $12 plus their slowest internet access for $25 making my bill with tax at $38 a month. This whole process took an hour of my time! And to add insult to injury they are charging me the pro-rated $155 a month fee until a week from tomorrow which is the quickest they can get the cable guy out to get my cable card, my box and shut off channels above number 18! So in essence, I'm losing out on almost $40 for services that I want cancelled right now.


I called DirecTV, which I have an account with through my company, and they offered me their new $299 HD DVR for $19.95 but with only one movie channel for around $85 a month, but with a 2 year commitment. I'm going to hold out for a better deal even though I would be happy with the DirecTV offer since they are adding over 50 HD Channels next month. I just don't like being locked in to a contract. The HD DVR wouldn't even be mine. They lease them now.


I'm ready to say screw them all and just stick with my MovieBeam to order movies on Demand and my $9.95 Blockbuster total access account. And use my Sony recorder for the HI-Def OTA channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/11484883
> 
> 
> I had negotiated a price of around $97 last September (was it still Comcast back then, I don't remember) for one year service with all the channels they offer, along with the $39.95 high speed internet access (I think it's the 2nd fastest internet access service they offer). This $97 price also included one Motorola 6412 cable box with no DVR features enabled, and one cable card for my Sony recorder. This did include all their digital channels and all the premium movie channels.
> 
> 
> Anyways, my bill has been $97 a month since last September. I just got my newest bill and the new price is $155.67! That's almost a 60% increase! I called to confront them about this and the best they could do is $125 for exactly the services and features I have now, plus they would throw in a DVR cable box that including the full DVR features. I went ahead and dropped my service to Lifeline basic for $12 plus their slowest internet access for $25 making my bill with tax at $38 a month. This whole process took an hour of my time! And to add insult to injury they are charging me the pro-rated $155 a month fee until a week from tomorrow which is the quickest they can get the cable guy out to get my cable card, my box and shut off channels above number 18! So in essence, I'm losing out on almost $40 for services that I want cancelled right now.
> 
> 
> I called DirecTV, which I have an account with through my company, and they offered me their new $299 HD DVR for $19.95 but with only one movie channel for around $85 a month, but with a 2 year commitment. I'm going to hold out for a better deal even though I would be happy with the DirecTV offer since they are adding over 50 HD Channels next month. I just don't like being locked in to a contract. The HD DVR wouldn't even be mine. They lease them now.
> 
> 
> I'm ready to say screw them all and just stick with my MovieBeam to order movies on Demand and my $9.95 Blockbuster total access account. And use my Sony recorder for the HI-Def OTA channels.



Sorry buddy, but the deal you signed up for was a one year deal. Everyone who signs with the cable company has that happen to them. While I feel sympathetic that you wern't aware of what you were in for, you have to listen carefully to them.


I cancelled all my Premium Channels except HBO just before my year was up because I knew that was going to happen.


Now you can complain and probably have them kick the price back for a few months but that's about it. I pay 129.00 total including H.S. Internet, HD Tier, and Digital cable. If you're getting everything they offer then that's probably the correct price. And as far as your DVR goes, no satellite company sells them anymore. They are all leased except if you get a TiVo S3 or Tivo HD DVR.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Thanks for your reply. I'm not looking for sympathy, and I was aware it was a one year deal, but I just thinks it's ridiculous how much cable/satellite cost now a days.


I'd rather put the extra $90 a month towards a new car then for TV. TV is not that important to me.


On another note, I called the National U-Verse number and they had no info on when it was coming to my area. Has anyone heard anything about this cable service coming to the west side soon?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/11485147
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I'm not looking for sympathy, and I was aware it was a one year deal, but I just thinks it's ridiculous how much cable/satellite cost now a days.
> 
> 
> I'd rather put the extra $90 a month towards a new car then for TV. TV is not that important to me.
> 
> 
> On another note, I called the National U-Verse number and they had no info on when it was coming to my area. Has anyone heard anything about this cable service coming to the west side soon?



Well if you were aware of the one year deal then what was the point of the post? I suppose sometimes just getting it off your chest can make you feel better, but to be honest some of us have had some real horror stories that have happened and your tale of woe was, well, a bit disappointing.










If you don't watch TV that much then just cut back on your services. I think you can get basic cable cheap if OTA reception is a problem. As far as U-Verse goes that will be an alternative but in the meantime your only other alternative is satellite and that eventually will cost about the same as cable. I had one of their packages and paid 139.00 and that was 3 years ago, didn't include internet nor the cost of my TiVo service.


Anyway good luck to you. Hope you feel better now that you've wrote about it.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Thanks. I do feel better! I just can't stand Time Warner. This isn't my only gripe with TWC. Last year when I got my cable card, 3 separate installers couldn't get it working on my Sony HD-250. I finally read somewhere on the TiVo Series 3 forum on what to tell the TWC customer service agent to do on the phone to get it working. Needless to say I wasn't happy wasting 3 Saturdays trying to get it installed and ultimately having to get it installed myself.


Every since Comcast left my bills have gone up and I've gotten less programming (like free HD on demand movies). I finally said, enough is enough. I guess the point of my post too was to fish out other alternatives and it doesn't sound like there are any.


----------



## hookbill

Sounds like I got a canned response anyway. And if anyone knows what IControl is, please clue me in.

*Dear Mr. Hookbill:

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.

Thank you for contacting our office regarding HDTV networks. We do anticipate in the future, when a larger group of programmers and a wider scale of programming options are available in the HDTV format, that Time Warner will be offering more HD service. Time Warner Cable would like to provide all of the HDTV signals available. We are currently negotiating with several networks and hope to have an agreement in the very near future. This HD programming is being positioned as pay programming and Time Warner Cable wants to make sure that we negotiate the best possible rate for those of our customers who want to subscribe to this. We are however, hopeful that an agreement will be reached soon. We hope to carry these new and exciting channels soon and in the meantime we hope you will enjoy all the cutting edge services such as I Control that we already offer. Should you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact our office.

I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.

Sincerely,

Aaron

Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative*


----------



## rlb

Following is a list of MPEG4 HD channels currently in "engineering test" (with applicable channel) on D*. Info taken from AVS Forum:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost....78&postcount=1 


9800 CSTV

9801 FSN Midwest

9802 FSN Bay Area

9803 FSN Houston

9804 Disney Channel

9805 Animal Planet

9806 FSN North

9807 FSN New England

9808 FX

9809 Toon Disney

9810 ESPN News

9811 FSN Northwest

9812 FSN New York

9813 CD USA "The 101"

9814 Cinemax HD

9815 National Georaphic

9816 FSN Pittsburgh

9817 MSG

9818 MTV

9819 HBO West

9820 NBA TV

9821 FSN Rocky Mountain

9822 SportsNet New York

9823 A&E

9824 Starz Edge

9825 NFL Network

9826 FSN South

9827 YES

9828 Starz West

9829 Starz East

9830 NHL

9831 FSN Southwest

9832 Science Channel

9833 History Channel

9834 Showtime West

9835 Outdoor

9836 FSN West

9827 SportsSouth

9838 Discovery

9839 Movie Channel

9840 Tennis Channel

9841 FSN Prime Ticket

9842 Speed

9843 Fuel

9844 HGTV

9845 Spike

9846 Sun Sports

9847 Starz Comedy

9848 Big Ten

9849 CNN

9850 Comcast SportsNet Chicago

9851 FSN Ohio

9852 Sho Too

9853 The Weather Channel

9854 TBS

9855 Cartoon Network

9856 FSN Cincinnati

9857 Starz Kids & Family

9858 Bravo

9859 Comedy Central

9860 Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic

9861 FSN Florida

9862 TLC

9863 CSN West

9864 Versus

9865 MASN/ SportsTime Ohio

9866 Altitude

9867 Cinemax West

9863 Sci-Fi

9869 MHD

9870 FSN Arizona

9871 Chiller/ SAC MNT

9872 ABC Family

9873 USA Network

9874 Nickelodeon East

9875 FSN Detroit

9876 NESN

9877 CNBC

9878 The Food Network

9879 VH1


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cleveland just added:

#723 A&E HD

#729 National Geographic HD


----------



## hookbill

rlb - Wow. I didn't know that many HD channels existed.


TW is going to have to make some moves quick to keep up with that type of competition. And the solution is SDV but I can't see how they can implement it when they can't even get their cable line up straightened out.


Speaking of SDV, those of you who have TiVo's may be interested in this:

*Hijacked from tivolovers.com. From the recent FCC filing:


The pertinent section begins on page 32 under the header SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO MODIFICATIONS.


II. SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO MODIFICATIONS


Switched Digital Video (SDV) is a highly efficient bandwidth management technology employed by cable operators to transmit digital channels to customers on an as-needed basis. AT&T's U-Verse video service utilizes SDV to deliver all of its channels throughout its entire footprint. Cable systems traditionally transmitted all channels simultaneously to all customers, requiring the use of bandwidth for all channels even if few or no customers were watching a particular channel. By contrast, when a digital customer tunes to an SDV channel, the channel is only sent to those customers that wish to view it. As a result, when an SDV channel is not being viewed, bandwidth is available for other services.


SDV preserves bandwidth so that it can be used for deployment of innovative new services. The recovered bandwidth can be used to deliver more High Definition, Standard Definition and on-demand channels. Indeed, the recovered bandwidth is essential for cable operators to deal with the digital broadcast transition. The bandwidth can also be used to deliver faster bonded channels with dramatically improved wideband Internet speeds of 100 Mbps; digital voice service; and more interactive two-way services. SDV promotes broadband deployment and adoption and causes less disruption for consumers because SDV, like on-demand service, uses intelligent network management techniques to expand digital capacity without tearing up the streets to install additional fiber.


It is in everyone's interest for cable operators to use their networks more efficiently, and SDV technology allows the cable operators to do so. Unfortunately, as designed, one-way UDCPs are not capable of accessing SDV channels: SDV channels require two-way device functionality. In order to address this issue, the cable industry has worked with CE companies such as TiVo to arrive at a solution that can provide two-way SDV channels to one-way digital cable products through an external device attachment to the UDCP.


Under this approach arrived at through private discussions outside of regulatory compulsion a small Tuning Resolver adapter could be made available to the UDCP consumer. With only firmware modifications to new UDCP products, and a USB 2.0 connection, properly equipped UDCPs could receive programming offered on SDV channels. Many currently deployed UDCPs, including TiVo DVRs, have one or more USB 2.0 connectors and might even be upgradeable with firmware for SDV.


Licensing and testing of this optional feature of a UDCP will be provided under the existing DFAST agreement in a manner similar to that submitted to the FCC by various signators (TiVo, Motorola, Digeo, Solekai, Digital Keystone, and ViXS) for the optional M-CARD interface for UDCPs.68 That is, execution of a DFAST addendum, one-time verification testing, and self-verification thereafter.69


68 Nov. 13, 2006 joint submission in this docket by CableLabs, TiVo, Motorola, Solekai, Digeo, Digital Keystone and ViXs to implement Multi-stream CableCARDs for UDCPs.

69 Some verification testing is required, but it is likely to be minimal. For SDV to operate properly, the host must operate correctly with the cable headend when an end user has tuned away from a switched channel, or when the channel has remained unchanged with no evidence of user involvement or interaction (i.e., the user leaves the TV on and tuned to the switched channel, but then walks away from the TV for some extended period of time). Here, the host should act in sync with the headend to notify the end user of the pending switch (for example, display are you still watching?) before the reclamation of the channel.*


I got this info from fellow forum member nextoo on the TiVo S3 thread. Looks like the S3 will not become the door stop everyone said it would.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11478653
> 
> 
> Is this the one, Andrew?
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1171058029451
> 
> 
> The online check doesn't show it available at any local BB I can find...if that's wrong, I might run by a BB on the way home from work tomorrow.



Yes, that's the one. There were quite a few stores sold out, but I found mine in Montrose. It's nice to have a portable ATSC tuner, but keep in mind that digital signals are trickier than analog, and may require an external antenna on this TV (unless you're really close to the transmitters). The analog tuner isn't the best, especially crappy with VHF. Other than that, it's a decent digital portable TV.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/11486961
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland just added:
> 
> #723 A&E HD
> 
> #729 National Geographic HD



While I was hoping for something more along the lines of something we actually watch, 2 more channels is still an improvement.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11485689
> 
> 
> Sounds like I got a canned response anyway. And if anyone knows what IControl is, please clue me in.



IControl refers to On Demand movies where you pay $2-4 per movie. TWC doesn't use that designation in the Cleveland region:
http://www.triadtwcable.com/cableser...trolmovies.htm 


so you definitely got a canned response...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11484988
> 
> 
> And as far as your DVR goes, no satellite company sells them anymore. They are all leased except if you get a TiVo S3 or Tivo HD DVR.



You can still purchase E* DVR's from internet vendors, however their lease deal is probably the safer way to go (I own a 921 which is now obsolete thanks to MPEG4). You can purchase a 622 from The Dish Store for $479:
http://www.dishstore.net/index.php?cPath=66


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11487331
> 
> 
> rlb - Wow. I didn't know that many HD channels existed.




Just read that they are now saying 100 by the end of the year; plus, Fox News just announced they are going HD before the end of the year. D* will obviously add Fox as soon as possible since Murdoch owns both.


Lots of the adds are Fox Sports. We already have Fox Sports Ohio which includes Indians in HD. Big 10 channel will be HD within a couple weeks and it's showing over 90% of the games in HD.


P.S. Glad to hear that your beloved S3 is now at less risk.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11487331
> 
> 
> rlb - Wow. I didn't know that many HD channels existed.



Actually not all of them do yet. For example, Comedy Central has not announced any HD plans at this point. The problem with engineering information getting out is that people assume that the information is final. There's a lot of crazy talk going on in some of the forums. Some point out the Comedy Central example and others claim that it MUST be coming soon because it's on an engineering test list.


D* going to have a great lineup, but it'll be a rollout that lasts a few months.


----------



## Shark73

Does any know if WKYC will show the PGA tour event on a sub channel today? The Tribe game is the scheduled program with golf coming on after the Tribe for an hour.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/11507742
> 
> 
> Does any know if WKYC will show the PGA tour event on a sub channel today? The Tribe game is the scheduled program with golf coming on after the Tribe for an hour.



No they won't. You'll get what's left after the Tribe game and thats it.


----------



## Ben Music

Hey guys,


Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?


Thank for your help,

Ben Music


----------



## jtscherne

Here's an article about it from Engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/31/d...o-gets-leaked/ 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/11508350
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> 
> Thank for your help,
> 
> Ben Music


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/11508350
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> 
> Thank for your help,
> 
> Ben Music



Above article gives the basics. However, the primary difference is that the HR20 is available and the HR21 is only in a sort of limited "beta" test (i.e., you can't call and say that you want one).


----------



## Tom in OH

DirecTv would luv if everyone wanted an HR21. That way they can charge the customer for local networks the customer could normally get for free via ota. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want the HR20 w/ota tuner. Also, D* only offers a few of the locals available.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/11508350
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> 
> Thank for your help,
> 
> Ben Music


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11509036
> 
> 
> DirecTv would luv if everyone wanted an HR21. That way they can charge the customer for local networks the customer could normally get for free via ota. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want the HR20 w/ota tuner. Also, D* only offers a few of the locals available.



D*'s system is down now and I can't get to my account. But per my memory, I'm 99% sure than I don't pay anything for my local HD stations. Believe they are part of my overall package which includes HD.


However, I agree that I prefer the flexibility of having the OTA stations available.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11511687
> 
> 
> D*'s system is down now and I can't get to my account. But per my memory, I'm 99% sure than I don't pay anything for my local HD stations. Believe they are part of my overall package which includes HD.
> 
> 
> However, I agree that I prefer the flexibility of having the OTA stations available.



When I had D* it was 5 bucks for the locals. I'll bet you pay at least that much.


----------



## stuart628

rlb if you subscribe to locals with D* HD locals are free.



Question and I cant find the answer I know its in this thread, but why do WKYC and WOIO broadcast at such low power? I live in Green and can get FOX and ABC no problem at all with a indoor antenna, but WKYC and WOIO dont even show up, I do have a uhf/vhf and have adjusted the rabbit ears till I am blue in the face and still cant get anything...so back to the question why are they at such low power, and are they going to boost it up sometime soon?


----------



## Tom in OH

Hi,

I'm not sure about power requirements but I suspect they're allowed a certain power level and can't go stronger due to interference with other stations. Besides that, it seems the VHF channels can travel much farther with lower power than UHF channels.


When I last looked it up, WKYC 2 was 8kw and WOIO 10 was 3.5kw. Those numbers pale in comparison to the others.


I think it's a trade off in a way. The VHF channels go further on lower power but your customers might lose the signal due to interference or storms more often.


UHF channels have much less chance of interference but cost more to run due to high power requirements to reach the same audience.


I suspect this is why Fox is going to vhf 8 -- to save money on transmission cost. Our channel 31Fox(8-1) has always come in perfectly, I sure hope we don't lose it after the move.


Tom



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11512576
> 
> 
> rlb if you subscribe to locals with D* HD locals are free.
> 
> 
> 
> Question and I cant find the answer I know its in this thread, but why do WKYC and WOIO broadcast at such low power? I live in Green and can get FOX and ABC no problem at all with a indoor antenna, but WKYC and WOIO dont even show up, I do have a uhf/vhf and have adjusted the rabbit ears till I am blue in the face and still cant get anything...so back to the question why are they at such low power, and are they going to boost it up sometime soon?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11512239
> 
> 
> When I had D* it was 5 bucks for the locals. I'll bet you pay at least that much.



Just checked my bill. I get the HD MPEG4 locals and am billed for the following:

06/16 07/15 TOTAL CHOICE PLUS Monthly 51.99


06/16 07/15 HBO and SHOWTIME Monthly 24.00


06/16 07/15 HD Access Monthly 9.99


06/16 07/15 Network: FOX HD Monthly 0.00


06/16 07/15 DIRECTV DVR Service Monthly 5.99


I forget but maybe my level of service (choice plus) includes free locals. However, it includes the channels my wife wants; therefore, as far as I'm concerned I pay no extra for locals (HD or otherwise). Also included in this are the two HR20's I get from them. They are "leased", but with no monthly charge other than the DVR Service cost which doesn't increase with added HR20's. My up front cost for the two new HR20's was a total of $299.


----------



## rlb

Following available at dbstalk regarding D*'s current MPEG4 HD expansion: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?...08&postcount=1 


Asterisk (*) indicates HD channel available only with H20, H21, HR20 and HR21 receivers.


September 2007

A&E *265

Big Ten Network HD *220

Cartoon Network *296

Cinemax HD East *512

Cinemax HD West *514

CNN HD *202

Discovery HD Theater 76

ESPN HD 72, *206

ESPN2 HD 73, *209

Food Network HD *231-1

FSN New York HD *624

The Golf Channel HD (shared with Versus HD) *604

HBO HD East 70, 509, *501

HBO HD West *504

HDNet 79

HDNet Movies 78

HGTV-HD *229-1

The History Channel HD *269

Madison Square Garden HD *621

MHD (HD only) *332

The Movie Channel HD *544

NFL Network HD *212

National Geographic Channel HD *276

Showtime HD 71, 543, *537

Showtime HD West *540

Smithsonian Channel HD (HD only) *267

Starz Comedy HD *519

Starz HD East *520

Starz Edge HD *522

Starz Kids & Family HD *518

Starz HD West *521

TBS in HD *247

TNT HD 75, *245

Universal HD 74

Versus HD (shared with The Golf Channel HD) *604

The Weather Channel HD *362



October 2007

Animal Planet HD *282

Bravo HD *273

Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD 680 *640

Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD 681, *629

Discovery Channel HD *278

Fox Business Channel HD *359

FSN Detroit HD *636

FSN Prime Ticket HD *653

FSN Southwest HD *643

FSN West HD *652

Fuel TV HD *612

FX HD *248

NBA TV HD *601-1

New England Sports Network HD 682, *623

The Science Channel HD *284

Sci-Fi Network HD *244

Speed Channel HD *607

SportsNet New York HD 683, *625

USA Network HD *242

Yankees Entertainment & Sports HD 684, *622


Important but surprising option for me was the fact that we will be able to get rid of some current MPEG2 (HD lite) stations. Example would be HBO East. By moving from "70", where I currently get it MPEG2, to "501", I will get the MPEG4 mirror of the the SD channel. With a little luck, this will significantly improve the HD quality.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11512576
> 
> 
> I live in Green and can get FOX and ABC no problem at all with a indoor antenna, but WKYC and WOIO dont even show up, I do have a uhf/vhf and have adjusted the rabbit ears till I am blue in the face and still cant get anything...so back to the question why are they at such low power, and are they going to boost it up sometime soon?



Hey Stuart,

You could probably receive all stations ota with a different antenna design. Even though the rabbit ear says VHF, I think to receive channel 2, the element has to be somewhere near 8 ft. long. When WKYC switches to position 17, I'm hoping things will be better for all of us.


cheers,

Tom


----------



## stuart628

Tom I am have a RCA Antenna. when I was in mogadore I had a attic antenna and could get all cleveland locals great (after adjusting) and even got youngstown cbs and a couple other stray channels. now I move to green, live on a ranch on the top of a hill, I dont have a attic that I can throw a antenna up into like at mogadore, and thought for sure that I could pick up the locals as I am only 35 miles out from them...well like I said I get abc and fox in at 90 and get the akron pbs, plus tbn, and wuab, but that is it, not even a blip on the vhf signal....is there an ideal position that I should have this thing at (fully extended, in a v etc...) also when does fox move to VHF I hope not soon, or I hope that dish network gets cleveland locals up as my time warner took a dump on me last week because I am 400 feet off the road and there system cant handle that strain they said







. any help is apperciated! also is there a antenna you recommend that works good in my area? other then a rooftop antenna as its hard to get up there.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11519713
> 
> 
> Tom I am have a RCA Antenna. when I was in mogadore I had a attic antenna and could get all cleveland locals great (after adjusting) and even got youngstown cbs and a couple other stray channels. now I move to green, live on a ranch on the top of a hill, I dont have a attic that I can throw a antenna up into like at mogadore, and thought for sure that I could pick up the locals as I am only 35 miles out from them...well like I said I get abc and fox in at 90 and get the akron pbs, plus tbn, and wuab, but that is it, not even a blip on the vhf signal....is there an ideal position that I should have this thing at (fully extended, in a v etc...) also when does fox move to VHF I hope not soon, or I hope that dish network gets cleveland locals up as my time warner took a dump on me last week because I am 400 feet off the road and there system cant handle that strain they said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . any help is apperciated! also is there a antenna you recommend that works good in my area? other then a rooftop antenna as its hard to get up there.



Possibly what is affecting you reception is the terrain between you and the WOIO & WKYC transmitters (which are next to each other). You do not mention if you get WBNX. Their transmitter is next to WOIO.

WJW, WUAB & WEWS is a few block farther west. It's possible that the Richfield peak is blocking your reception, just as that same peak blocked the Akron stations form a large part of Cuyahoga County.


Its true that VHF takes a lot less power than UHF to reach the same coverage area, however WOIO is crippled by being on a channel that has an analog Canadian station right across the lake, so they have to protect that station, which will still be on the air in analog long after the U.S. stations end the transition.


----------



## stuart628

I do got WBNX at a 78-83 signal, its frustrating because I can get all cleveland locals in at 75- 90 and I cant get nbc and cbs







thanks for the thought micheal.


----------



## Inundated

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet about WKYC, but we've mentioned it in here a dozen times before: WKYC's biggest problem isn't being a VHF station, it's being on the absolute worst VHF channel position, 2.


If you've ever seen sparklies on WKYC's analog 3 signal, that's digital interference. It's A) even worse on 2, where the DT station lives, and B) those sparklies mean you can't reliably even receive the digital signal in much of the area, unless you have a powerful rooftop antenna properly tuned to that channel (VHF in particular).


Indoor antenna? 20-plus miles away from the Parma antenna farm? Good luck to you on that!


This will go away when WKYC moves its DT channel to 17, when WDLI/Canton vacates analog 17 for DT 39 at the digital switchover. WKYC has already filed for this move.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11519713
> 
> 
> Tom I am have a RCA Antenna. when I was in mogadore I had a attic antenna and could get all cleveland locals great (after adjusting) and even got youngstown cbs and a couple other stray channels. now I move to green, live on a ranch on the top of a hill, I dont have a attic that I can throw a antenna up into like at mogadore, and thought for sure that I could pick up the locals as I am only 35 miles out from them...well like I said I get abc and fox in at 90 and get the akron pbs, plus tbn, and wuab, but that is it, not even a blip on the vhf signal....is there an ideal position that I should have this thing at (fully extended, in a v etc...) also when does fox move to VHF I hope not soon, or I hope that dish network gets cleveland locals up as my time warner took a dump on me last week because I am 400 feet off the road and there system cant handle that strain they said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . any help is apperciated! also is there a antenna you recommend that works good in my area? other then a rooftop antenna as its hard to get up there.



I doubt you'll ever be able to get WOIO or WKYC with an indoor antenna from your distance. I in Orrville at just about 38 miles south of the towers. I have decent elevation too. Just like you, I could get everything but WKYC and WOIO with my indoor antenna. Putting the rooftop antenna up was the thing that did the trick. As others have said, there is just too much interference and other issues to deal with in the case of those two stations.


I ALWAYS get WOIO with the rooftop antenna. Never a problem, even at this distance. WKYC is there most of the time too, definitely more than it is not.


If the rooftop antenna is not an option, you should still have a great chance of getting CBS and NBC out of Youngstown from your location. I get them here at 60+ miles. There is definitely some voodoo involved with getting OTA reception. But it so worth it when you get it all worked out!


----------



## Sesummers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11520789
> 
> 
> I do got WBNX at a 78-83 signal, its frustrating because I can get all cleveland locals in at 75- 90 and I cant get nbc and cbs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for the thought micheal.



I live in Green too. Even with a big rooftop antenna, NBC only comes in well enough to even watch about half of the time.


Fortunately, I found from another post on this forum that Time Warner includes all the local channels in unencrypted QAM 256 on the cable. I get the $12.95/mo Lifeline service along with RoadRunner. (I'm not sure if Lifeline is even needed for this, but I like having the analog channels too, and this way I'm not "stealing" CableTV.)


My HDTVs don't have QAM tuners, but I have a Windows Media Center with an HDHomeRun tuner, which works very well.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11522748
> 
> 
> If you've ever seen sparklies on WKYC's analog 3 signal, that's digital interference. It's A) even worse on 2, where the DT station lives, and B) those sparklies mean you can't reliably even receive the digital signal in much of the area, unless you have a powerful rooftop antenna properly tuned to that channel (VHF in particular).



I always wondered what the heck those sparklies were on WKYCs analog signal! Now I know. Thanks!


----------



## GLuis

I checked in here yesterday, after a hiatus, to see if there was anything new on WVIZ's signal strength. I know, a foolish wish but what the heck. I even tried a rescan but to no avail. I'm in Brunswick with a Terk HDTVo directional pointed at "the farm" and get great pics from all Cleveland stations.


Well, I thought I'd see what was on the other public station, 49 HD, and I was blown away.


I guess I had just gotten complacent watching sporting events and a few select network shows in HD. All of which come in great on my 42" Panasonic plasma. Well, 49HD had a couple of great HD shows on the Northwest Passage and the great Canadian lodges/hotels of the Canadian Rockies. I was just awestruck at how well the HD shows off nature shots. Unbelievable.


Even had the 22 year old son sit down and watch.


Guess WVIZ just lost there yearly donation from me.


----------



## intermod

Hey All,


Nice day to scan for channels, getting WMYD and WLNS with decent levels. 40++.

Pointing 325 from Parma. Been thinking bout taking down the TV antenna to free up space for a 2m (144mcy) Yagi but I couldnt live myself if I did. Too much fun DX'ing

the "Ether".


/Dan


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11526780
> 
> 
> Guess WVIZ just lost there yearly donation from me.



I stopped giving to them a couple years ago. Got tired of the excuses year after year for no HD.


Edit: Also got tired of paying for the "Antiques Roadshow Channel" and the thinly veiled infomercials from the various self-help gurus.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/11485652
> 
> 
> Every since Comcast left my bills have gone up and I've gotten less programming (like free HD on demand movies). I finally said, enough is enough. I guess the point of my post too was to fish out other alternatives and it doesn't sound like there are any.



Check out www.wowway.com and see if Wide Open West serves your area. You can actually price the various service bundles right there on the website (gasp!) Their customer service and HD PQ are excellent.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11532598
> 
> 
> I stopped giving to them a couple years ago. Got tired of the excuses year after year for no HD.



Just my 2 cents worth, but several years ago I made a donation to a Los Angeles PBS station (KCET) so I could get a VCR tape of "The Moody Blues, Live at Red Rock." I really don't watch that much PBS.


I was bombarded from that time on by mail requesting more donations. Then after a year went by they started sending them to me like a bill! Almost demanding I donate.


I ended up calling up the station and telling them that I felt they were harrassing me. That stopped it. I'll never donate to PBS again.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/11526942
> 
> 
> Hey All,
> 
> 
> Nice day to scan for channels, getting WMYD and WLNS with decent levels. 40++.
> 
> Pointing 325 from Parma. Been thinking bout taking down the TV antenna to free up space for a 2m (144mcy) Yagi but I couldnt live myself if I did. Too much fun DX'ing
> 
> the "Ether".
> 
> 
> /Dan



I don't recognize either of those call letters. I was able to get 2 Pittsburgh stations: WPXI 11-1, 11-2 (rf 48) and the My Network TV affiliate WPMY 22-1 & 22-2 (22-2 is a SD version of 22-1, last year it had The Tube on the same subchannel).


Have you ever been able to pull in WMFD 68-1 (rf 12)?


EDIT: I just looked up WMYD and WLNS. Detroit & Lansing. The amazing thing is WMYD is digital on rf 21. I'm just a few miles from you, I get WFMJ analog 21 virtually 24/7. You must have one heck of a directional antenna to avoid the interference from WFMJ.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sesummers* /forum/post/11526220
> 
> 
> I live in Green too. Even with a big rooftop antenna, NBC only comes in well enough to even watch about half of the time.
> 
> 
> Fortunately, I found from another post on this forum that Time Warner includes all the local channels in unencrypted QAM 256 on the cable. I get the $12.95/mo Lifeline service along with RoadRunner. (I'm not sure if Lifeline is even needed for this, but I like having the analog channels too, and this way I'm not "stealing" CableTV.)
> 
> 
> My HDTVs don't have QAM tuners, but I have a Windows Media Center with an HDHomeRun tuner, which works very well.



I was thinking of doing this, even though I doubt my tv has a QAM tuner, I wil have to work on something, else but this seems to be the way to go for now...thanks for the idea!


edit: will this work for unencrypted channels because this is my tv?!
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshi...oductDetail.do


----------



## Rambozo

stuart628,


That TV has built-in tuners (ATSC/QAM/NTSC), so you should be good to go. This does assume that your CATV provider broadcasts Clear QAM channels.


----------



## lefkas

I understand the CNN started broadcasting in HD on September 1 on a separate CNN HD signal. Does anyone know if any of the local cable or satellite companies plan to carry this ?


----------



## HD MM

D* plans on carrying CNN-HD with their upcoming HD rollout. As for when that is, we shall see very soon.....


----------



## rlb

Best guess is the middle of this month.


----------



## stuart628

well I am hoping that I can still get my qam signals as I have road runner and lifeline right now, and today they said they needed to put some filter on my line as I discontinued my Digital and HD package, I am thinking that filter will killl my chances of getting those channels still- heres to hoping they forget to do it, or dont want to do it as I still have roadrunner and life line! as far as the tv goes I decided not to be lazy and ask you guys everything and went and plugged my line in the antenna section and I got 339 channels (most of which are probably encrypted) but all my HD locals came in! now I am set for the game this sunday, unless that dang filter gets in my way!


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11539236
> 
> 
> D* plans on carrying CNN-HD with their upcoming HD rollout. As for when that is, we shall see very soon.....




I emailed Time Warner Cable this afternoon to see if they had any immediate plans to carry CNN HD. All I got back was some canned response about their endeavors to provide the most HD channels at the best price. No specific mention of CNN HD. Strange that DISH is beating them to the punch when Time Warner and CNN are owned by the same company.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/11543983
> 
> 
> I emailed Time Warner Cable this afternoon to see if they had any immediate plans to carry CNN HD. All I got back was some canned response about their endeavors to provide the most HD channels at the best price. No specific mention of CNN HD. Strange that DISH is beating them to the punch when Time Warner and CNN are owned by the same company.



Just another one of the many cases of "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" at TW. I wonder when they get all the thousands of subscribers cancelling their service over the next few months, if they'll actually start "getting things together" or just pass the buck to the customers once again with an enormous hike in their rates. Probably the latter, which will in turn end up running their cable servicing business in the ground for good. You think most of their CSRs and techs are half clueless now?... wait til they start paying them $7/hr







.


----------



## stuart628

Big ten network is up and running on Dish network!! more here...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-net...0-network.html 


this is great, as today when I turned in my boxes from time warner, she asked if I had gone to satellite too because of the big ten network, I left because of signal trouble and other issues, but she said she had ALOT of people the last week turning their boxes in and going to satellite


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11544354
> 
> 
> Just another one of the many cases of "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" at TW. I wonder when they get all the thousands of subscribers cancelling their service over the next few months, if they'll actually start "getting things together" or just pass the buck to the customers once again with an enormous hike in their rates. Probably the latter, which will in turn end up running their cable servicing business in the ground for good. You think most of their CSRs and techs are half clueless now?... wait til they start paying them $7/hr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



You really can't judge all of TW based on what we have here. In areas where they have SDV they are competing with D*. We don't have SDV here and probably won't until they at least get all the line ups one guide. Right now there are about 9 different cable line ups in our area for TW with the addition of Adelphia and Comcast.


And that is why I purchased the S3 because I banked on their inability to implement SDV that quickly in our area. By the time they do the USB dongle should be available for the S3 so it will be two way capable.


But all of that's a while away. I will bet that they will add a bunch of new HD channels at once fairly soon however.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I am so glad that I did not invest in a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD because if I was stuck with Time Warner right now I would put a gun to my head. I can't imagine how they are going to keep any subscribers after they have jacked up their rates so high this month, and with all the DirecTV hi-def channels coming very soon. I hope AT & T U-verse comes sooner than later. My cable bill went up 60% this month and my step-father's, whom lives two cities over from me on the west side, went up 50%.


I'm only holding onto Lifeline Basic and internet access for now hoping they come to their senses so I can get a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/11542793
> 
> 
> well I am hoping that I can still get my qam signals as I have road runner and lifeline right now, and today they said they needed to put some filter on my line as I discontinued my Digital and HD package, I am thinking that filter will killl my chances of getting those channels



I have TW Lifeline only; original analog customer for a few years. When I plugged in the new HDTV, all I had to do was scan for digital channels. The local HDs come over RF 101 and higher. We get a fair share of them, including WVIZ and quite a few sub channels like WUAB's The Tube broadcast in SD.


I can't justify a $50+/mo TV bill for what little we may watch. Keeps the kids outside and playing as well!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11546347
> 
> 
> I have TW Lifeline only; original analog customer for a few years. When I plugged in the new HDTV, all I had to do was scan for digital channels. The local HDs come over RF 101 and higher. We get a fair share of them, including WVIZ and quite a few sub channels like WUAB's The Tube broadcast in SD.
> 
> 
> I can't justify a $50+/mo TV bill for what little we may watch. Keeps the kids outside and playing as well!



FYI TiVo Pony just announced tonight that TiVo to Go and MRV will be available for TiVo HD and S3 in November. You will not be able to transfer HD recordings to an S2. You will be able to transfer HD recordings so long as they are not copyright. This also applies to SD recordings on the S2. So network shows and the like will be able to be copied on the S3 and maybe transfer to your new TiVo HD or vice versa.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11546979
> 
> 
> FYI TiVo Pony just announced tonight that TiVo to Go and MRV will be available for TiVo HD and S3 in November. You will not be able to transfer HD recordings to an S2. You will be able to transfer HD recordings so long as they are not copyright. This also applies to SD recordings on the S2. So network shows and the like will be able to be copied on the S3 and maybe transfer to your new TiVo HD or vice versa.



That is sweet news! I have been waiting for this functionality for a long, long time. Are you gonna pickup another TiVo HD or S3 now?


Do you know how the playback functionality works? More specifically, when you click on a show to watch via MRV, does it play immediately, or is there a download from one TiVo to the other that occurs? And if the later, any idea (ballpark) how long that might take to download an hour long HD show?


I'm so thrilled about this announcement. Now I essentially have four HD tuners for the HD TV in the basement.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/11550339
> 
> 
> That is sweet news! I have been waiting for this functionality for a long, long time. Are you gonna pickup another TiVo HD or S3 now?
> 
> 
> Do you know how the playback functionality works? More specifically, when you click on a show to watch via MRV, does it play immediately, or is there a download from one TiVo to the other that occurs? And if the later, any idea (ballpark) how long that might take to download an hour long HD show?
> 
> 
> I'm so thrilled about this announcement. Now I essentially have four HD tuners for the HD TV in the basement.



I'm embarrassed to admit but "how" this works is something I don't know because prior to my S3 the only other TiVo experience I had was with D-TiVo and there wasn't any TTG or MRV. I imagine that it all work with the TiVo Desktop and you can transfer shows from one "Now Playing List" to the others. But I'm not sure.


I am extremely excited by this and yes, I do plan to get an HD TiVo for my upstairs HD TV. For me will eliminate any problems with conflicts, specially with the Network shows they only have once a week. But I'm going to wait until it's actually implemented before purchasing one - just in case. While I'm happy TiVo Pony has announced it and I do believe it will be in November, I wouldn't want to buy one now and have to wait until November 31. TiVo Pony has done stuff like that before. Like promising in the Fall the update for the S3 Winter release - and it was released in Winter - February 07.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11550445
> 
> 
> I'm embarrassed to admit but "how" this works is something I don't know because prior to my S3 the only other TiVo experience I had was with D-TiVo and there wasn't any TTG or MRV. I imagine that it all work with the TiVo Desktop and you can transfer shows from one "Now Playing List" to the others. But I'm not sure.



Ok, so I did a little research on this and here's the goods...
*Transferring Programs Between DVRs

(Multi-Room Viewing)*


When you have more than one DVR connected to your home network, you

can easily transfer programs between them. Here's how it works:



- Go to the DVR that you want to transfer programs to. For this example,

let's call it the Bedroom DVR.


- At the bottom of the Bedroom DVR's Now Playing List, highlight the

DVR you want to transfer programs from. Let's call this the Living

Room DVR.

- DVRs in your home network are marked on the

Now Playing List by the DVR icon.

- Press SELECT to see the Living Room DVR's

Now Playing List.


- Find the program you want to transfer from the Living Room DVR to

the Bedroom DVR. Highlight it and press SELECT.

- Select Watch on this TV. On the Getting Program screen, you can choose

to watch the program as it is transferring, or continue browsing the

Living Room DVR's Now Playing List.

- If you watch the program as it is transferring, you might experience

intermittent delays in the transfer, depending on your network speed.

Once the program is transferred from the Living Room DVR to the

Bedroom DVR, the recording exists in both locations. If you delete the

program from one DVR, you can still find it on the other.
It sounds pretty darn easy to me!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/11551457
> 
> 
> Ok, so I did a little research on this and here's the goods...
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds pretty darn easy to me!



Even easier then I thought. But what else would you expect from TiVo?


----------



## paule123

Does anybody know if WKYC took a fiber feed from Cleveland Browns Stadium for the preseason games, or if that was via sat ?


Indians games are via fiber to WKYC from the Jake, correct?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

yes the tribe games are via fiber from the jake to wkyc, not sure about the connection from cbs to wkyc. im going to assume that they just used a satellite, since it was only 2 games, and they use satellite for indians away games.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11557913
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if WKYC took a fiber feed from Cleveland Browns Stadium for the preseason games, or if that was via sat ?
> 
> 
> Indians games are via fiber to WKYC from the Jake, correct?



Yes, camera feeds are backhauled to the station via fiber and switched in a control room there.


----------



## dunner

Just wanted to report some disappointing discussions I had with Cox today.


First up -- they have no plans to carry WBNX-55 in HD or Digital. According to the technician with whom I spoke, they're under no obligation to carry it, in spite of the fact that it's a local broadcast station. To say this surprised me is a bit of an understatement.


Second up, I bought a TiVo HD last night, and talked to a technician who informed me that yes they had multistream cards. Today, I called again to make an appointment. (Apparently, the technician couldn't make an installation appointment.) When I called today, I was informed that they don't offer multistream cards. (Though, their DVR boxes do, in fact, use them.) As with Channel 55, they also have no plans to offer multistream cable cards.


As two additional heads up, the cablecards they offer are the Scientific Atlanta models. Those have an issue with TiVo HDs (though that issue may have been fixed in the latest software patch from TiVo). Also, when I asked about getting an appointment to have cablecards installed (no, you can't DIY, though, you're expected to be able to maintain them yourself, which is the same bloody procedure), they told me it'd be over a week for an appointment.


So, the TiVo went back. Maybe I'll look into it again in a year or two.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11526780
> 
> 
> I checked in here yesterday, after a hiatus, to see if there was anything new on WVIZ's signal strength. I know, a foolish wish but what the heck. I even tried a rescan but to no avail. I'm in Brunswick with a Terk HDTVo directional pointed at "the farm" and get great pics from all Cleveland stations...
> 
> 
> Guess WVIZ just lost there yearly donation from me.



I have to agree with you on this. I checked WVIZ's website, and there is absolutely no sign for when they plan on boosting their power up to normal on the digital end. In fact, they have not updated this information on their website for a year. This is extremely disappointing since they have not made good on their past promises. Maybe they just feel that their crappy STA is sufficient for now, but this is disappointing for OTA viewers like me.


On another note, I decided to take my new portable 5" TV with ATSC tuner with me as I drove around Akron today. I attached the silver sensor, and I was shocked at how well I could receive WKBN-DT at different locations around town. I tried the Chapel Hill Mall, the Montrose area near I-77, and the State Road shopping area in Cuyahoga Falls. With almost no effort, I could get a 100% signal. This was a surprise for me since I have never been able to view this channel due to my location half-way down the valley.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11565468
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you on this. I checked WVIZ's website, and there is absolutely no sign for when they plan on boosting their power up to normal on the digital end. In fact, they have not updated this information on their website for a year. This is extremely disappointing since they have not made good on their past promises. Maybe they just feel that their crappy STA is sufficient for now, but this is disappointing for OTA viewers like me.



Ther are certain aspects of their DTV tower issues that are out of their control. I know they've been trying to get this resolved for a long time. Cut them some slack; I know they're still working on it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dunner* /forum/post/11561924
> 
> 
> As two additional heads up, the cablecards they offer are the Scientific Atlanta models. Those have an issue with TiVo HDs (though that issue may have been fixed in the latest software patch from TiVo).



What's the "patched" software version number? Inquiring minds want to know...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11565468
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you on this. I checked WVIZ's website, and there is absolutely no sign for when they plan on boosting their power up to normal on the digital end. In fact, they have not updated this information on their website for a year. This is extremely disappointing since they have not made good on their past promises.



My prediction - they will get some kind of special exemption from the FCC and go past the analog cutoff date with the low power transmitter. We won't see WVIZ until 2010 or beyond.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11565729
> 
> 
> My prediction - they will get some kind of special exemption from the FCC and go past the analog cutoff date with the low power transmitter. We won't see WVIZ until 2010 or beyond.



That cut off date is firm. I don't believe it will be possible to get an exemption.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11565821
> 
> 
> That cut off date is firm. I don't believe it will be possible to get an exemption.



And even if it would be possible, for whatever reason, it wouldn't be smart for WVIZ to keep its low-power STA past 2009.


I mean, after all, analog 25 goes away at the cutoff date, and it would turn the market's largest PBS affiliate into a digital LPTVer, basically! Almost no one with an antenna and no cable/etc. would be able to even watch them. Their donations would drop through the floor.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11565468
> 
> 
> On another note, I decided to take my new portable 5" TV with ATSC tuner with me as I drove around Akron today. I attached the silver sensor, and I was shocked at how well I could receive WKBN-DT at different locations around town. I tried the Chapel Hill Mall, the Montrose area near I-77, and the State Road shopping area in Cuyahoga Falls. With almost no effort, I could get a 100% signal. This was a surprise for me since I have never been able to view this channel due to my location half-way down the valley.



I also bought that TV, by the way...found it in a BB having been returned by someone, so I got $20-ish off the new price.


And between one of those locations and you, I've mentioned that I can get WKBN-DT with the right antenna positioning and elbow grease out my south-east facing window. I'm sure if I took a decent antenna up the road a bit, I could get it.


BTW, I don't think the TV has a 5th gen tuner. The one in my USB HDTV card outperforms it.


Another problem I just thought of: There's no way to manually scan in channels, in either DTV or analog mode! I can understand the former, but don't understand the latter.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, that TV has other quirks. It won't properly fit 4:3 upconverted programming to fill the screen..."auto" stretches it up, but won't stretch it out. 4:3 programming in 480i works fine.


Not the greatest PQ, but I don't expect much for 5".


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11566450
> 
> 
> BTW, that TV has other quirks. It won't properly fit 4:3 upconverted programming to fill the screen..."auto" stretches it up, but won't stretch it out. 4:3 programming in 480i works fine.
> 
> 
> Not the greatest PQ, but I don't expect much for 5".



What is the difference between a 5th generation tuner and the tuner in this portable TV? I have 3 digital tuners, and they all seem to perform equally. I hook up the same antenna to all three tuners, and they all seem to get the same digital reception. These tuners are a Zenith HDV420, a built-in tuner for a Philips 26" TV, and the portable 5" Insignia TV tuner.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11565821
> 
> 
> That cut off date is firm. I don't believe it will be possible to get an exemption.



Oh, somethin' tells me the crafty critters in Congress can come up with a special exemption for the "publicly owned" PBS stations... Just call me a cynic, LOL...


Hey, I'll put my money where my mouth is, if WVIZ-DT is full power before the analog cutoff, they've got $100 from me.


----------



## Ben Music

If you have TWC cable, you should be able to get WVIZ-HD 24/7. I live in Lorain County (Former Comcast area) and pick it up on ch-214. Other TWC areas may find it on a different channel position. I know as far as OTA is concerned, it's a no go for now. I believe the signal is pumped in via fiber to our headend.


Hope this helps,

Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11566414
> 
> 
> And even if it would be possible, for whatever reason, it wouldn't be smart for WVIZ to keep its low-power STA past 2009.
> 
> 
> I mean, after all, analog 25 goes away at the cutoff date, and it would turn the market's largest PBS affiliate into a digital LPTVer, basically! Almost no one with an antenna and no cable/etc. would be able to even watch them. Their donations would drop through the floor.



Paragraph one I agree with but not for the reasons you state.


Let's say WVIZ doesn't make any changes. Do you really think that it would affect donations that much? I personally believe that the vast majority of people get their HD television either satellite or cable. Most people who don't have cable do it because either they can't afford cable, hence they would not donate anyway, or because they are hard core OTA practitioners like we have hear in our local forum. Now those people with OTA HD would indeed not donate but I am saying they are probably an insignifigant amount.


Anyway as I said earlier, I don't care what they do since I ain't givng them a dime one way or another.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11566606
> 
> 
> What is the difference between a 5th generation tuner and the tuner in this portable TV? I have 3 digital tuners, and they all seem to perform equally. I hook up the same antenna to all three tuners, and they all seem to get the same digital reception. These tuners are a Zenith HDV420, a built-in tuner for a Philips 26" TV, and the portable 5" Insignia TV tuner.



They should be similar on strong signals, but the 5th gen tuners handle multipathing much better. If a signal's getting bounced around, it is supposed to keep it more stable. Are the Philips or Zenith tuners 5th gen? That's a relatively recent development.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11568134
> 
> 
> Now those people with OTA HD would indeed not donate but I am saying they are probably an insignifigant amount.
> 
> 
> Anyway as I said earlier, I don't care what they do since I ain't givng them a dime one way or another.



Here's the problem. It's not OTA HD, it's OTA ANYTHING.


Right now, in stores across America, just about any new set above 20" has (mandated by law) an ATSC digital tuner. I'd have to check the deadline, but it now appears nearly ALL sets sold in stores (that are not selling clearance/holdover stock) have the ATSC tuners, even the 13" ones.


All of those sets will likely be in service in 2009. We're not talking HT owners looking for HD, we're talking that the only BASIC over-air service for the sets in question will be the DT signal. And by that time, even the cheapest sets won't pick up WVIZ over-the-air, period, unless WVIZ-DT goes to North Royalton and powers up. There will be NO analog 25 out there to receive.


How many WVIZ viewers watch via cable/satellite only? I dunno. I'm not saying it'll wipe them off the map to have a low-power temporary signal at the 2009 cutover, but you can bet they won't let that happen if at all possible.


If WVIZ/analog 25 dropped to a power level so low you can't pick it up unless you're basically within shouting distance of the station's former studios on Brookpark Road in Parma, do you think they'd let THAT stay that way for long? That's what the OTA DT signal will be starting in Feb., 2009, their ONLY signal.


They may be able to get a waiver for DT 26 - that, I wouldn't know - but since it's their only over-air signal after 2/09, they won't WANT one.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, just confirming that Browns/Steelers was in HD on WOIO/19 this afternoon.


Lots of macroblocking coming out of fast action. It would appear to me that WOIO didn't lower the bandwidth on their "WeatherNow" subchannel.


Of course, the way the Browns played, they'll be lucky not to appear on CBS next week in black and white, let alone in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11571845
> 
> 
> They should be similar on strong signals, but the 5th gen tuners handle multipathing much better. If a signal's getting bounced around, it is supposed to keep it more stable. Are the Philips or Zenith tuners 5th gen? That's a relatively recent development.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the problem. It's not OTA HD, it's OTA ANYTHING.



True. Very true. I often forget that digital doesn't mean HD.


Well, either they will do something or as Paule123 says they will go to the FCC and cry, "wha wha, poor Public Broadcast, we have no money."










I see no reason they shouldn't be on board by then. They've known about this for sometime now.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11571869
> 
> 
> BTW, just confirming that Browns/Steelers was in HD on WOIO/19 this afternoon.
> 
> 
> Lots of macroblocking coming out of fast action. It would appear to me that WOIO didn't lower the bandwidth on their "WeatherNow" subchannel.
> 
> 
> Of course, the way the Browns played, they'll be lucky not to appear on CBS next week in black and white, let alone in HD.



Yes, I commented on the macroblocking in the other thread. TSReader showed that WeatherNow was hovering around 3.6Mbps. Last year football season it hovered around 2Mbps.


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11571869
> 
> 
> BTW, just confirming that Browns/Steelers was in HD on WOIO/19 this afternoon.
> 
> 
> Lots of macroblocking coming out of fast action. It would appear to me that WOIO didn't lower the bandwidth on their "WeatherNow" subchannel.
> 
> 
> Of course, the way the Browns played, they'll be lucky not to appear on CBS next week in black and white, let alone in HD.




The Browns game was horrible in HD- fast moving macroblocking and on my display it looked like it was in and out of focus a lot- even the graphics were blurry at times. I thought maybe my system was screwed up until I switched to the Fox game- it was fantastic. CBS/19 should be ashamed of themselves(the Browns should too BTW).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11571921
> 
> 
> I see no reason they shouldn't be on board by then. They've known about this for sometime now.



The biggest problem here, of course, is not that WVIZ doesn't WANT to up their digital signal. The problem is that they have that ongoing dispute with CBS Radio, which owns their North Royalton transmitter site. I have NO idea why that hasn't been resolved, when we'd heard it was going to be resolved by LAST Summer!


You're onto something with the money thing. I believe most PBS stations got government grants of some sort to even buy much of the digital equipment in the first place.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/11572750
> 
> 
> The Browns game was horrible in HD- fast moving macroblocking and on my display it looked like it was in and out of focus a lot- even the graphics were blurry at times. I thought maybe my system was screwed up until I switched to the Fox game- it was fantastic. CBS/19 should be ashamed of themselves(the Browns should too BTW).



No kidding.


Yeah, I didn't need to analyze the stream to know that WeatherNow was not cut back. (It's barely worth it to begin with, BTW.







)


The blurry graphics were a result of the same problem WKYC has had on and off with Sunday Night Football and other fast moving sources. The encoder can't "keep up" with the fast motion, and the picture as a whole gets blurry for about 2-3 seconds after the motion ends. Then, after that, it sharpens up again.


WOIO this afternoon looked EXACTLY the same. The PQ was nearly as much an embarrassment as the Browns' play. (And that's saying a LOT.)


I should go upstairs to the HD set to see if the blur effect is still present on SNF.


----------



## hookbill

OK, I really didn't sit there and "watch" that lopsided a** kicking but when I did look at it I didn't see any problems with the picture. Of course I get my picture through TW. I wonder if that is why?


And I also want to comment that without Dolby 5.1 that makes a heck of a difference in the quality of a HD football game. I thought the San Diego, Chicago game looked and sounded great.


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11573460
> 
> 
> OK, I really didn't sit there and "watch" that lopsided a** kicking but when I did look at it I didn't see any problems with the picture. Of course I get my picture through TW. I wonder if that is why?
> 
> 
> And I also want to comment that without Dolby 5.1 that makes a heck of a difference in the quality of a HD football game. I thought the San Diego, Chicago game looked and sounded great.




My viewing was through TWC as well. It looked like garbage. Fox's broadcast through TWC looked fantastic though.


----------



## Rambozo

I watched it via TWC / Clear QAM and I was concerned it was my TV. Then I remembered that WOIO is too damn cheap with bandwidth and sound, and wrote it off as them.


The SNF on WKYC was great but not perfect compared to that, even with the fast motion. At least the Dallas Cheerleaders in HD helps one get over it


----------



## TLaz

Anyone else having frequent millisecond sound drop outs on WEAO-DT (49.1) via OTA reception?


----------



## Rambozo

Anytime I stop to see what's playing there via TW/QAM, I get a rapid digital stutter in the sound. It's worse than a CD skipping.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/11576621
> 
> 
> Anyone else having frequent millisecond sound drop outs on WEAO-DT (49.1) via OTA reception?



Yes. This has been going on for a while now. I posted about this a while back.


The picture is really great. The audio needs fixed. Perhaps they are still having encoder issues. I really wanted to watch Nova last night, but the audio makes it impossible to get through the whole program.


----------



## Andrew K

What is WVIZ talking about when they say they're having "tower issues"? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.


On another note, it looks like WVPX will not operate their digital channel on rf 59. I'm sure many people were aware of this. I checked the FCC database, and I finally noticed a new application for WVPX to use channel 23 for their digital broadcast.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11580627
> 
> 
> What is WVIZ talking about when they say they're having "tower issues"? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
> 
> 
> On another note, it looks like WVPX will not operate their digital channel on rf 59. I'm sure many people were aware of this. I checked the FCC database, and I finally noticed a new application for WVPX to use channel 23 for their digital broadcast.



The WVIZ "tower issue" is the fact that they don't own the tower and their "landloard" (CBS INC. owners of WNCX) won't let them put up a 2nd antenna.


When 2009 comes around the will "flash cut" from analog to digital using the same antenna that now is used for analog 25.


"Flash cut" is also what WVPX is going to do in 2009.


BTW: those of you wanting PBS HD, WEAO's HD feed is the exact same programming 25/7 as WVIZ's. The only thing you miss by not getting WVIZ-DT are the SD (and audio only) subchannels.


----------



## Inundated

By the way, SNF on WKYC/NBC looked a LOT better than the Browns/Steelers earlier in the day on WOIO/CBS.


There was virtually no macroblocking. I caught the "blurry picture after fast graphics" once or twice, but not every time.


The difference had to be the subchannels, as measured elsewhere (and/or here?) by our own Paule123. WOIO had WeatherNow up over 3 Mbps, and WKYC throttled NBC Weather Plus to under 2 Mbps! BIG difference.


You just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i D with a subchannel over 3 Mbps. You just can't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11582824
> 
> 
> You just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i D with a subchannel over 3 Mbps. You just can't.



You also can't have good ratings for your news when you do tabloid yellow journalism. You also can't have real good HD without Dolby 5.1 Surround.


Yet WOIO just marches along it's merry little way, don't they?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11582995
> 
> 
> You also can't have good ratings for your news when you do tabloid yellow journalism. You also can't have real good HD without Dolby 5.1 Surround.
> 
> 
> Yet WOIO just marches along it's merry little way, don't they?



Maybe I should have said "you just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i HD with a subchannel over 3 Mbps and not look as crummy as WOIO does all the time".


----------



## paule123

Thinking ahead a couple weeks from now, TBS is going to be doing a good chunk of ALDS/NLDS games as well as the NLCS. Does ANYONE have TBS-HD on their system?

http://www.tbs.com/stories/story/0,,113630,00.html 


I guess D* is gonna have it, but I seriously doubt my cable company WOW will have it in time.


----------



## k2rj

Maybe TWC will carry on HDBON? (HD Bonus channel where STO-HD games air...)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/11586603
> 
> 
> Maybe TWC will carry on HDBON? (HD Bonus channel where STO-HD games air...)



Heh Heh. And pigs may fly.......


I'll be in Hermosa Beach California for the first week of the play offs. I'm sure I'll find a local tavern to watch some of the games.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/11576621
> 
> 
> Anyone else having frequent millisecond sound drop outs on WEAO-DT (49.1) via OTA reception?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/11576979
> 
> 
> Perhaps they are still having encoder issues.



Emailed and received a worthy response from Pat Weed:

Thank you for your interest in our programming.


Yes, we are aware of the audio drops on the HD programming. The encoder we are using was state-of-the-art in 2003 (at a cost of $350K) when we began digital transmission. Recently, PBS began transmitting the signal to us via satellite using a slightly updated data stream. The encoder is not capable of handling the signal well, and that causes the occasional hiccups. We have a new encoder in the works and hope to have it in place by the end of the year. We are sorry for the inconvenience, but this digital transmission is still in its infancy. It is well worth the effort however!


Thanks again for watching PBS 45 & 49.
End of the year isn't so bad, considering we're half way through September


----------



## Smarty-pants

Well, everyone pretty much knows how that goes though. Their "target date" is the end of the year, which means it will probably be fixed some time around August







.


----------



## HD MM

Breaking news.....


Charlie Frye traded to Seattle.....

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7214446


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11589274
> 
> 
> Breaking news.....
> 
> 
> Charlie Frye traded to Seattle.....
> 
> http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7214446



Interesting. Here's some real important breaking news. The Tribe is in first place and are pennant contenders.


I really don't understand what's up with this town. For heavens sake get behind the Tribe and worry about the Clowns, I mean Browns later.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11589678
> 
> 
> Interesting. Here's some real important breaking news. The Tribe is in first place and are pennant contenders.
> 
> 
> I really don't understand what's up with this town. For heavens sake get behind the Tribe and worry about the Clowns, I mean Browns later.



I'm personally a huge Tribe fan, but the fact that our former starting QB was traded (while inevitable) is big news in this town. Besides, I thought it was a refreshing break from your constant TiVo updates Hook!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11589709
> 
> 
> I'm personally a huge Tribe fan, but the fact that our former starting QB was traded (while inevitable) is big news in this town. Besides, I thought it was a refreshing break from your constant TiVo updates Hook!



Touche'










I'm not happy I guess unless I'm rocking the boat. True this is big news and deserving of you mentioning it. I just get the feeling that this town doesn't support the Tribe the way it should and that was my point.


Oh and speaking of TiVo updates (you brought it up) S3 and HD TiVo owners can download 3 pilots of new NBC shows free at Amazon unbox. Unfortunately they will not be in HD.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11589678
> 
> 
> Interesting. Here's some real important breaking news. The Tribe is in first place and are pennant contenders.
> 
> 
> I really don't understand what's up with this town. For heavens sake get behind the Tribe and worry about the Clowns, I mean Browns later.



I try to be a Browns fan as much as possible, but I pretty much agree with you.

Ever since the old Tribe team was dismantled and the "rebuilding" period started, it seems as if most people don't even know that the Indians are still here, and about to win the Penent as well.

I understand that football was born in NE Ohio, and I am a football fan too, but for goodness sake... WHERE HAVE ALL THE TRIBE FANS GONE??

Come on guys, smells like October, and that means playoffs!

GO TRIBE !!!!!


Oh ya, GO BROWNS! After all, it couldn't get any worse. Could it?... could it?


----------



## Smarty-pants

hookbill, he takes a lickin and keeps on tickin... and so does his S3.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11584644
> 
> 
> Thinking ahead a couple weeks from now, TBS is going to be doing a good chunk of ALDS/NLDS games as well as the NLCS. Does ANYONE have TBS-HD on their system?
> 
> http://www.tbs.com/stories/story/0,,113630,00.html
> 
> 
> I guess D* is gonna have it, but I seriously doubt my cable company WOW will have it in time.



Not sure how baseball playoffs go, but are there any playoff games that would air on STO? It'd be nice to get STO to air the away games in HD for playoffs.


----------



## HD MM

Ok Cleveland here's your chance! Get behind the Tribe. Here's a comprehensive list of remaining regular season games available in stunning HD.......


Friday, September 14, 7:05pm Kansas City- STO

Saturday, September 15, 7:05pm Kansas City- STO

Sunday, September 16, 1:05pm Kansas City- WKYC

Monday, September 17, 7:05pm Detroit- STO

Tuesday, September 18, 7:05pm Detroit- STO

Wednesday, September 19, 12:05pm Detroit- STO

Friday, September 21, 7:05pm, Oakland- STO

Saturday, September 22, 7:05pm, Oakland- STO

Sunday, September 23,1:05pm, Oakland- WKYC


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/11589996
> 
> 
> Not sure how baseball playoffs go, but are there any playoff games that would air on STO? It'd be nice to get STO to air the away games in HD for playoffs.



No playoff games will be on STO. Expect to see them on FOX-HD and TBS-HD.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....907&highlight=


----------



## Rambozo

Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.


I just hope the Tribe's playoff games are available to ALL, and hopefully a higher percentage than the 2 of 9 remaining regular season games.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11590582
> 
> 
> Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.
> 
> 
> I just hope the Tribe's playoff games are available to ALL, and hopefully a higher percentage than the 2 of 9 remaining regular season games.



IF the Tribe gets to the playoffs it will be on the channels HD MM mentioned. The Tribe has no control over that, post season is controlled by MLB.


I am supporting the Tribe to make it to the post season - however if they play the Red Sox I may have a tough time rooting for them. I've been a Red Sox fan since I was 16.


And if by some miracle they end up playing the Dodgers in the W.S. (not much chance of that) I would definitely root for the Dodgers. I've been a fan of them since I was 3.


Hope you understand....


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> By the way, SNF on WKYC/NBC looked a LOT better than the Browns/Steelers earlier in the day on WOIO/CBS.
> 
> 
> There was virtually no macroblocking. I caught the "blurry picture after fast graphics" once or twice, but not every time.
> 
> 
> The difference had to be the subchannels, as measured elsewhere (and/or here?) by our own Paule123. WOIO had WeatherNow up over 3 Mbps, and WKYC throttled NBC Weather Plus to under 2 Mbps! BIG difference.
> 
> 
> You just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i D with a subchannel over 3 Mbps. You just can't.



For those of you that can get both WOIO-DT and WKBN-DT can you see a difference? Both have subchannels, but only WKBN has DD5.1. Also WKBN's subchannel is their LPTV FOX affiliate that runs an NFL game at the same time as our Browns game is on (the game we miss in the Cleveland market due to a home game being aired). I'm sure they use more bandwidth for a SD FOX feed than Weather Plus.


I'm only watching the HD signal downrezzed to an SD set so I'm not the best judge.


----------



## salemtubes

It looks like WKBN-DT is using 60% of its available bandwidth, and WOIO-DT is using about 70% of its available bandwidth.


----------



## godshammgod

is anyone able to pull in nbc (wkyc-dt) here??? i cant for the life of me get a signal with my rabbit ears antenna


i also cant get cbs woio-dt now


all the other OTA digital stations come in perfect for me


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/11594906
> 
> 
> is anyone able to pull in nbc (wkyc-dt) here??? i cant for the life of me get a signal with my rabbit ears antenna
> 
> 
> i also cant get cbs woio-dt now
> 
> 
> all the other OTA digital stations come in perfect for me



I don't know much about OTA but from what I've read in this forum WKYC is difficult. They also have a substream for their "Weather Now" channel. You probably need more then rabbit ears.


I can't get anything OTA with rabbit ears, so I use cable.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Now I just got a mental picture of hookbill hooking up that S3 to rabbit ears. Too funny


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11597930
> 
> 
> Now I just got a mental picture of hookbill hooking up that S3 to rabbit ears. Too funny



Well I did. What the heck is so funny?










Hey people all over the country have reported success with the S3 and just rabbit ears. I really didn't expect it to work but I thought I would give it a shot.


Well, at least I put a smile on somebody's face.


----------



## Smarty-pants

What's funny is, IMHO, no sane person would spend that much loot on a piece of equipment like the S3, and then hook rabbit ears up to it







. Most people who can afford to shell out enough money for a piece of high end equpment, can also afford to pay for the best HD signal possible to be piped into it. (this is opinion, not fact







)


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11598155
> 
> 
> What's funny is, IMHO, no sane person would spend that much loot on a piece of equipment like the S3, and then hook rabbit ears up to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Most people who can afford to shell out enough money for a piece of high end equpment, can also afford to pay for the best HD signal possible to be piped into it. (this is opinion, not fact
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



As we go off topic (again) on Hook's precious S3, I'd just like to share with others what else you could get for your hard earned money instead of forking over nearly $800 for an S3. Just thought it was interesting in how much more (IMO) you can get for your money instead.....


TiVo S3 for $800 or........


ViP622 or HR20 ($199) +ViP222 or H20 ($100) +PS3 ($499).....


or of course you could get 800 Jr. Bacon Cheesburgers from Wendy's for $1 each.


----------



## hookbill

Now wait a minute. I never went off topic I was talking about OTA HD and tried to share a bit of my knowledge of what I heard about WKYC. Smartypants was the one who brought up the S3.


And you can get 800 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds. But do you mention that? Noooooooooo....


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11590582
> 
> 
> Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.
> 
> 
> I just hope the Tribe's playoff games are available to ALL, and hopefully a higher percentage than the 2 of 9 remaining regular season games.



I believe that if you get cable, you get STO. My parents have just have a basic "broadcast" package in Erie, PA, and they get STO along with TBS and the major cable news outlets.


----------



## HD MM

CBS released their HD plans through week 3 of their NFL coverage. Looks like the Browns will be in SD only the next two weeks; against Cinci this week and then again next Sunday against Oakland.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/11601040
> 
> 
> I believe that if you get cable, you get STO. My parents have just have a basic "broadcast" package in Erie, PA, and they get STO along with TBS and the major cable news outlets.



Here in Canton, if you get the basic package which is called Lifeline Basic, you only get analog channels 2-22. That's all, except for if you have a QAM tuner, you can get all the locals in HD and a few other DT stations. To get STO, you must buy the Expanded Basic service that costs $50/month.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11590582
> 
> 
> Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.



Thats a rediculous statement.


Indians support dropped back in 2000, well before they switched exclusively to cable televion.


Its more in line with the return of the Browns, the terrible Cleveland economy, and the fact that fans are stupid and still want to see Omar Vizquel, Albert Belle, Jim Thome, and Charlie Nagy play.


Over 80% of people have cable, dish, etc, meaning they have access to STO. Its not like switching to cable cut out half their fan base. It cut out a small portion of it.


----------



## JJkizak

Rambozo:

Yes, I get the sound burps even with a strong signal OTA. Drives me nuts. It could be super rapid dropouts. But the video is usually stable.

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/11594906
> 
> 
> is anyone able to pull in nbc (wkyc-dt) here??? i cant for the life of me get a signal with my rabbit ears antenna
> 
> 
> i also cant get cbs woio-dt now
> 
> 
> all the other OTA digital stations come in perfect for me



Where are you located? I get WKYC-DT with rabbit ears, but I can see the tower out my back window. Even that close it takes some time adjusting the rabbit ears. Reception is not guaranteed even if the tower lights are reflecting off my neighbor's windows (which they literally do).


Rule #1 for WKYC-DT - you need to pull the rabbit ears out to the maximum extension. If that extension does not equal 8 feet get another set of rabbit ears that are large enough.


Rule #2 for any indoor antenna - put it by a window that faces the direction of the transmitter. Siding, brick, and insulation mangles the OTA signals even here at "ground zero". A window (preferably with no screen) is the only interference-free location to place an indoor antenna.


A rule of thumb: if the analog picture is crappy using that antenna, you will probably not get a good lock on the digital signal for that station.


----------



## dj9

All TWC digital services are out here in my area, from the Green office. It appears to be localized to my neighborhood. Of course, this includes the QAM HD signals...


Unless I missed something, I'd be hard pressed to get a decent signal for some of the Cleveland channels, right?


----------



## stuart628

to update, and give a answer to dj9, I live on mayfair Road in Green, and I put up an antenna yesterday (I had a indoor one and got fox abc out of the big 4) well I climbed up on the roof and put a antenna up and now get everything at about 76% ACROSS the board, i am going to tweak it a little and try and get an extra foot or two on my pole as that way it will clear the roof peak, and I think I should be good to go! so putting up an antenna on the roof is not as hard as I thought it was going to be!


----------



## HD MM

Tonight the Tribe kicks off their last home-stand of the season for a 9 game stretch. Each and every game is available in glorious HD on either STO-HD or WKYC-HD. See this post for schedule, times and channel info.


Also, here is a great article by critically acclaimed and recently added columnist to the Plain Dealer, Terry Pluto. If you haven't checked out his column yet today, it is an excellent read. Enjoy.......

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index...l=2&thispage=1


----------



## HD MM

No love again for the Browns. Week 4's CBS-HD Schedule is out and reveals that yet again the Browns will not be shown in HD for the 3rd consecutive week (Week 1: HD, Weeks 2-4: no HD). Good news for HD Browns fans though is that week 5 they play the Patriots, so most likely they will receive HD treatment then.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11623522
> 
> 
> No love again for the Browns. Week 4's CBS-HD Schedule is out and reveals that yet again the Browns will not be shown in HD for the 3rd consecutive week (Week 1: HD, Weeks 2-4: no HD). Good news for HD Browns fans though is that week 5 they play the Patriots, so most likely they will receive HD treatment then.
> 
> http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl



Although CBS is giving more HD this year when it comes to Cleveland and the Browns it's like bottom of the barrel. They want to use their available HD for what they consider "important" games.


Personally I'm looking forward to Sundays game with the Bengals. Does anybody think that idiot that plays for the Bengals will actually jump into the dog pound if he scores down there? He doesn't have enough armour to handel those guys.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11592820
> 
> 
> It looks like WKBN-DT is using 60% of its available bandwidth, and WOIO-DT is using about 70% of its available bandwidth.



You know what's killing WKBN there is the null packets (0x1FFF on that screen shot) that the Fox network sends down to the local stations. My understanding is if the local station is multicasting as WKBN is, they should be stripping the null packet stream off in-house and not passing that OTA to the viewers. If I read that right, WKBN is pissing away a good 3.5Mbps of bandwidth and causing both channels to suffer in PQ.


Re the Tribe in the playoffs - time to tell your providers to get TBS-HD by October 3 ! I have yet to hear back from WOW cable on this ! It's too bad we won't see any playoffs in glorious 1080i on STO. If TBS-HD baseball is similar to TNT-HD's basketball, there will most likely be PQ issues.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11624005
> 
> 
> Does anybody think that idiot that plays for the Bengals will actually jump into the dog pound if he scores down there? He doesn't have enough armour to handel those guys.



Depends what the score is and how empty the dawg pound is at that time of the game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11624026
> 
> 
> You know what's killing WKBN there is the null packets (0x1FFF on that screen shot) that the Fox network sends down to the local stations. My understanding is if the local station is multicasting as WKBN is, they should be stripping the null packet stream off in-house and not passing that OTA to the viewers. If I read that right, WKBN is pissing away a good 3.5Mbps of bandwidth and causing both channels to suffer in PQ.



Perhaps Mr. Zocolo is still lurking here, and share some information on this!


----------



## Neruda7

This is my first post, so I apologize if this problem has come up already and I didn't realize it.


I have Dish Network and a VIP622 box. I live in Strongsville and have an RCA Model 1250 amplified antenna. I have always been able to get the 'Big Four' local channels in HD (as well as several others). Three days ago all of my OTA HD stations suddenly showed a zero signal strength. The SD stations still come in. So, I still receive 003-0 (WKYC) in SD, but I cannot receive 003-1 or 003-2 (WKYC in HD and their weather station ).


Does anyone know what happened? I tried resetting the entire system, unplugging the antenna and then resetting it, but to no avail. Every time I perform a local channel scan in the System Setup area it finds no local digital channels.


Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks and have a good evening...


Regards,

Scott


----------



## Speedskater

Hi Scott,

I would suspect that the RCA amplified antenna died. You are so close the the broadcast antennas that the analog signals could make it through the dead antenna amplifier. A second possibility is that your TV's digital OTA tuner died.


----------



## Inundated

Grab a cheap pair of rabbit ears and see if you're getting anything. You should be able to get most of the local digitals with that, if you're that close to Parma (the Cleveland market's so-called "antenna farm", with all those tall towers up in the air).


If you get NOTHING out of that, maybe there's a tuner problem.


----------



## Inundated

 http://www.antennaweb.org/ 


Go there and plug in your address, and you can find how close you are to the antenna farm.


All the local TV stations are camped out on large towers in the general vicinity of Parma and nearby. Nearly all of them are near, or a very short drive, from Parmatown Mall. A couple of 'em are a bit further south (i.e. WVIZ/25's analog tower is in North Royalton - and no, you probably won't get WVIZ-DT...their digital setup, due to a long-time legal and technical dispute with CBS Radio and its predecessors, is a small stick atop their former Brookpark Road studio site).


----------



## Neruda7

Thanks Kevin and Inundated. I'll try out your suggestions and let you know what happened. Have a good one...


Regards,

Scott


----------



## GLuis

Never had this until today. Got my TERK pointed right at the farm from Brunswick at a pretty high elevation.


All other channels aokay ... even WKYC 3 DT


Anyone else?


----------



## GLuis

Well they fixed it by going to SD. Thanks for the quality WOIO


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11639093
> 
> 
> Well they fixed it by going to SD. Thanks for the quality WOIO



WOIO didn't go to SD, CBS did. The Browns/Bengals game was not in HD today. (And it turned out to be a game you'd WANT to see in HD!)


----------



## geocab

At this point, I want to see EVERY game broadcast in HD already.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/11640460
> 
> 
> At this point, I want to see EVERY game broadcast in HD already.



Well, we all would but if you read this thread at all you would have seen that HD MM has been keeping us updated on Browns scheduled telecast and this one, nor next week will be in HD. Week 5 against Pats is the next scheduled HD telecast.


And while I agree it must have been an exciting game with the high scoring at all, The Tribe was on in HD at 1:00. And while the outcome was not as exciting as the Browns, that was the game to watch. YMMV


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *geocab* /forum/post/11640460
> 
> 
> At this point, I want to see EVERY game broadcast in HD already.



I believe the NFL contract requires all games in HD next season.


CBS is doing much more this year than last year, and when more Sunday games get peeled off the schedule later this year (i.e. NFL Network, etc.), very few games won't be in HD on CBS.


----------



## jtscherne

I see that someone forgot to flip the switch at Channel 19. The late game is in HD on Sunday Ticket, but not on Channel 19.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11640741
> 
> 
> I see that someone forgot to flip the switch at Channel 19. The late game is in HD on Sunday Ticket, but not on Channel 19.



I just checked to see if it was suppose to be in HD. Zap2it.com says HD.


See geocab, you're correct. WOIO is screwing up after all!


----------



## jtscherne

Of course, it's supposed to be in HD. I'm watching it on Sunday Ticket in HD...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11640769
> 
> 
> I just checked to see if it was suppose to be in HD. Zap2it.com says HD.
> 
> 
> See geocab, you're correct. WOIO is screwing up after all!


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11640769
> 
> 
> I just checked to see if it was suppose to be in HD. Zap2it.com says HD.
> 
> 
> See geocab, you're correct. WOIO is screwing up after all!



I guess "if we would read this thread at all" the answer is buried in here somewhere. Right?


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11640741
> 
> 
> I see that someone forgot to flip the switch at Channel 19. The late game is in HD on Sunday Ticket, but not on Channel 19.



Yep, someone's asleep at the switch at WOIO. It was in HD on WKBN.


----------



## jtscherne

Did WKBN show the Browns game? I think I remember the problem. Since the Browns game ran way long, there's a problem switching to HD after the second game starts. At least I THINK this was a problem in the past.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11641103
> 
> 
> I guess "if we would read this thread at all" the answer is buried in here somewhere. Right?



It's on this page. Real tough to find. (sarcasam)


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11640157
> 
> 
> WOIO didn't go to SD, CBS did. The Browns/Bengals game was not in HD today. (And it turned out to be a game you'd WANT to see in HD!)



Big time Bengal fan here. I for one am thrilled that the game wasn't broadcast in HD!







It was more than I could stomach in SD.


I didn't see this one coming. I would have bet my HDTV that the Bengals would have won that game.


Congrats to all you Browns fans on the win. It was fun to watch.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/11646069
> 
> 
> I would have bet my HDTV that the Bengals would have won that game.



When do you want me to come pick it up?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11646205
> 
> 
> When do you want me to come pick it up?



I said, "I *WOULD* have bet my HDTV." Lucky for me I'm not that big of a fool. Although I do feel like a real sucker sometimes for following these B*U*ngals...


----------



## hookbill

The "D" on those two teams must be awesome.










I will come out right now and will tell you that the Raiders will win next week in Oakland. Too bad it won't be in HD. (I threw that in there to stay on topic.







)


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11647552
> 
> 
> I will come out right now and will tell you that the Raiders will win next week in Oakland. Too bad it won't be in HD. (I threw that in there to stay on topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Man Hook, you sure do like to stir the pot. But I'll second your prediction.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Should I buy this antenna DB8 Multidirectional Antenna. It seems like it is pretty powerful would hurt my signal in anyway going with the biggest baddest it is going in my attic.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11643828
> 
> 
> Did WKBN show the Browns game? I think I remember the problem. Since the Browns game ran way long, there's a problem switching to HD after the second game starts. At least I THINK this was a problem in the past.



Yes, WKBN showed the Browns game in SD and showed the late game (Jets vs. Ravens) in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

Thanks! Obviously Raycom screwed it up again.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11650205
> 
> 
> Yes, WKBN showed the Browns game in SD and showed the late game (Jets vs. Ravens) in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11651377
> 
> 
> Thanks! Obviously Raycom screwed it up again.



You know this has really got to stop. It's beyond ridiculous. I really think that each of us needs to email Raycom and tell them that this is just unacceptable. Point out that WKBN doesn't seem to have a problem with flipping a switch but somehow they just can't seem to get the system down.


I'm suggesting that we follow up on this. Everyone needs to send an email to them. It's not fair for those *******s to be spoiling the pleasure of our expensive electronic equipment by not doing their parts.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Is there a local shop that sells antenna's preferably winegard so I don't have to pay shipping.


----------



## Rambozo

Winegard.com shows nothing for dealers in Cleveland. Maybe check the channelmaster site?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/11656056
> 
> 
> Is there a local shop that sells antenna's preferably winegard so I don't have to pay shipping.



They are not local, but I highly recommend www.solidsignal.com . I've ordered OTA antennas and satellite stuff from them and they've been great. They are located in Michigan and shipping prices have always been very reasonable, IMO. (also factor in you will pay no sales tax)


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/11656056
> 
> 
> Is there a local shop that sells antenna's preferably winegard so I don't have to pay shipping.



Some of the local electronics shops, while they are not Winegard distributors, will sell some Winegard and Channelmaster antennas. You'll have to do a hit or miss. I've seen Winegards at Radio Shack and Channelmasters at Lowe's.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11652130
> 
> 
> You know this has really got to stop. It's beyond ridiculous. I really think that each of us needs to email Raycom and tell them that this is just unacceptable. Point out that WKBN doesn't seem to have a problem with flipping a switch but somehow they just can't seem to get the system down.
> 
> 
> I'm suggesting that we follow up on this. Everyone needs to send an email to them. It's not fair for those *******s to be spoiling the pleasure of our expensive electronic equipment by not doing their parts.



I think Raycom "sucks" as much as anyone on this forum.

But in this case, for weeks CBS has shown this as one of 3 games that would be "SD". The Browns will also be SD each of the next two weeks. Unfortunately, CBS considers our Browns" games of less importance than most. So, when they pick the 2-3 games each week to go SD; the Browns are more likely than most to end up on the list. Believe I've read that next year all games will be HD.


----------



## jtscherne

You're missing the point. We're complaining about Channel 19 not switching to HD for the late game, which was in HD everywhere else.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11658433
> 
> 
> I think Raycom "sucks" as much as anyone on this forum.
> 
> But in this case, for weeks CBS has shown this as one of 3 games that would be "SD". The Browns will also be SD each of the next two weeks. Unfortunately, CBS considers our Browns" games of less importance than most. So, when they pick the 2-3 games each week to go SD; the Browns are more likely than most to end up on the list. Believe I've read that next year all games will be HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11652130
> 
> 
> You know this has really got to stop. It's beyond ridiculous. I really think that each of us needs to email Raycom and tell them that this is just unacceptable. Point out that WKBN doesn't seem to have a problem with flipping a switch but somehow they just can't seem to get the system down.
> 
> 
> I'm suggesting that we follow up on this. Everyone needs to send an email to them. It's not fair for those *******s to be spoiling the pleasure of our expensive electronic equipment by not doing their parts.



I think it's time to go over Raycom's head. Email CBS! Let them know what a "wonderful" job WOIO is doing as their affiliate in Cleveland. I wouldn't mention WKBN, however, for fear that CBS could do something to stop that powerful signal from invading the Cleveland DMA.


OTOH those of you in the DMA border counties (Ashtabula, Stark, and especially Portage) should start watching all the Youngstown stations in hopes that Nielsen will shift your counties to the Youngstown DMA.


It's too bad that one affiliate could suck so bad as to need a DMA switch. It's too bad that the border areas couldn't get mixed affiliates named as their "locals" (i.e. get Cleveland as your for all but CBS), since the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas as long as Raycom insists on keeping WOIO on rf ch 10. Take a look a few pages back, someone posted the lousy coverage area WOIO-DT has in comparison to all the other Cleveland locals (even WKYC-DT isn't that bad).


----------



## HD MM

STO is partnering with Time Warner Cable for exclusive rights to televise High School football and basketball games. Read press release: here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11659512
> 
> 
> I think it's time to go over Raycom's head. Email CBS! Let them know what a "wonderful" job WOIO is doing as their affiliate in Cleveland. I wouldn't mention WKBN, however, for fear that CBS could do something to stop that powerful signal from invading the Cleveland DMA.
> 
> 
> OTOH those of you in the DMA border counties (Ashtabula, Stark, and especially Portage) should start watching all the Youngstown stations in hopes that Nielsen will shift your counties to the Youngstown DMA.



Funny, I was just thinking the same thing too. Raycom doesn't give a darn about what we think, we need to go to CBS.


The problem with your other idea is you would have to be a Neilson house to affect ratings. And just how many people do you know who are Neilson houses? Probably nobody and if you do know someone do they have HD?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11658466
> 
> 
> You're missing the point. We're complaining about Channel 19 not switching to HD for the late game, which was in HD everywhere else.



Duh! You're right, I missed the point. However, I was right about one thing. Raycom sucks.


Even if the switch flippers at WOIO get their act together, and we get to see programs in HD; WOIO will be the only local major network affiliate without DD capability. That's not human error, that's just pure cheap and a total disregard for the quality of their product.


----------



## Felony44

I have already shot a email to CBS telling them to give up the rights to the NFL and let a professional broadcasting company that can provide HD take over im sure i will hear from them soon







dont you?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/11659861
> 
> 
> I have already shot a email to CBS telling them to give up the rights to the NFL and let a professional broadcasting company that can provide HD take over im sure i will hear from them soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dont you?



That was not what we were suggesting. We want to put the pressure on Raycom (owners of WOIO) to get their HD act together. The NFL on CBS will be 100% HD starting next season. Patience, please! WOIO OTOH is another story. Their ownership has made some bad decisions from the viewer's point of view (no DD5.1, and insisting on being on ch 10 when a Canadian analog station will be in the way of running a full power signal for years after the U.S. transition ends).


----------



## hookbill

Remember how they got the DD 5.1 about two weeks before the Super Bowl last year? Then they gave some lame story as to why they had to "return" the equipment to CBS.










They've got quite a few shows on my SP and it just pisses me off that there is no DD 5.1.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11659512
> 
> 
> since the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas as long as Raycom insists on keeping WOIO on rf ch 10.



With the proper setup, WOIO-DT's signal does reach "the outlying areas". I'm using a Winegard YA-1713 antenna in conjunction with a Channel Master 7777 Titan2 preamplifier to receive it. The signal is usually in the mid 70s on my E* ViP 622 DVR. It is in the high 60s tonight but rock solid. I am about 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter. I should note that the antenna is mounted on a 55' tower and my location is on high ground at 1250' above sea level. Your milage may vary.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11661389
> 
> 
> With the proper setup, WOIO-DT's signal does reach "the outlying areas". I'm using a Winegard YA-1713 antenna in conjunction with a Channel Master 7777 Titan2 preamplifier to receive it. The signal is usually in the mid 70s on my E* ViP 622 DVR. It is in the high 60s tonight but rock solid. I am about 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter. I should note that the antenna is mounted on a 55' tower and my location is on high ground at 1250' above sea level. Your milage may vary.



Unfortunately your set-up will not help the viewers in Lake and Ashtabula counties, where CFPL-TV's signal booms across Lake Erie with a vengeance.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11667493
> 
> 
> Unfortunately your set-up will not help the viewers in Lake and Ashtabula counties, where CFPL-TV's signal booms across Lake Erie with a vengeance.



Why would you assume that it is impossible, Michael? You originally stated, "the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas", which is simply not true. Now you're qualifying your original statement by limiting it to apply to Lake and Ashtabula counties. If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state. It does not make sense for you to state your opinion as an absolute. If there's one thing I've learned over the years when dealing with antenna setups, it is that one should never assume that receiving a signal is possible or impossible at a given location. There are too many variables to state it in absolute terms.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11671471
> 
> 
> Why would you assume that it is impossible, Michael? You originally stated, "the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas", which is simply not true. Now you're qualifying your original statement by limiting it to apply to Lake and Ashtabula counties. If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state. It does not make sense for you to state your opinion as an absolute. If there's one thing I've learned over the years when dealing with antenna setups, it is that one should never assume that receiving a signal is possible or impossible at a given location. There are too many variables to state it in absolute terms.



I don't doubt that you can receive WOIO-DT in Salem, and especially with that massive antenna setup you have and also considering that it's a VHF channel. I understand that there are some nice outdoor antenna designs that are capable of receiving VHF channels from long distances. But for people like me, it's very frustrating to receive this. I live in an apartment in Akron where I cannot use an antenna setup like you have. I don't have any difficulty receiving the Cleveland digitals, except for WOIO-DT. For me, the signal is very flakey and often breaks up. Perhaps if WOIO-DT was not operating at such a low power, then I wouldn't need to have a huge outdoor antenna.


When WJW-DT goes to channel 8, they plan on using 15.7 kw, which is a much more reasonable power for an upper VHF digital channel. WOIO-DT only plans on using 3.5 kw, which does not give a solid coverage in the city and suburbs.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11671471
> 
> 
> If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state.



Indeed if you look at the sensitivity plot for the YA-1713 on Winegard's website you will see that cannels 9-11 do offer a high degree of sensitivity directed to a smaller spread angle with little 90 to 180 deg sensitivity. This is designed to eliminate multipath reception but would also work to keep out an overlapping station in the opposite direction. Add a rotor to the setup and I would think it would do a good job filtering out CFPL (all other things being equal).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11671471
> 
> 
> Why would you assume that it is impossible, Michael? You originally stated, "the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas", which is simply not true. Now you're qualifying your original statement by limiting it to apply to Lake and Ashtabula counties. If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state. It does not make sense for you to state your opinion as an absolute. If there's one thing I've learned over the years when dealing with antenna setups, it is that one should never assume that receiving a signal is possible or impossible at a given location. There are too many variables to state it in absolute terms.



While some viewers along Lake Erie might go to the expense of putting up a system like yours, they would have the additional problem of ingress along the co-ax (I presume your system includes an amplifier). It can be done but they are under an unusually strong signal. CFPL was received as a "local" channel by my Uncle who lived in Conneaut in the 60's. It was stronger than any of the Cleveland or Erie stations!


----------



## Andrew K

For years, WOIO has been able to pay the electric bill with 3700 kw of power on their analog channel 19. If they use a UHF digital channel, then it would only take a couple hundred kilowatts, which would still be a lot cheaper than running an analog channel. So why does WOIO-DT remain on channel 10 when it makes it difficult for their OTA viewers? Just compare these coverage maps and see the difference. WOIO-DT isn't as effective in reaching the prime areas.


Coverage for WOIO-DT... http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WOIO-DT.jpg 


Coverage for WEWS-DT... http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nk/WEWS-DT.jpg 


Coverage for WJW-DT... http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ank/WJW-DT.jpg


----------



## Jigga Moog

I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. I narrowed it down to winegard 7080,7082,or 7084 I can't decide.


----------



## Fighting Fish

Hi everybody,


I have recently put together a budget home theatre composing of an Olevia 32" 720p t.v., Onkyo SR800 home theatre in a box, and a Sony upconverting dvd player.


The next logical step for me was to take advantage of the OTA HD signals. I opted for the ChannelMaster 4228 outdoor antenna.


I braved the heights earlier today and installed it on an old mast of the chimney. Living in Akron (near tangiers) I pointed it north (342deg roughly). Came down from the roof and fired up auto channel search. I was amazed at how many channels I got, and of the clarity of the picture. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, PBS... Only dissapointment was that ION doesn't come in hardly at all, and only get 1 PBS statioin.


Can't wait to watch some HD sports. Anyways, thought I'ld give some info on my OTA experience thus far.


-fighting fish


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11678464
> 
> 
> While some viewers along Lake Erie might go to the expense of putting up a system like yours, they would have the additional problem of ingress along the co-ax (I presume your system includes an amplifier). It can be done but they are under an unusually strong signal. CFPL was received as a "local" channel by my Uncle who lived in Conneaut in the 60's. It was stronger than any of the Cleveland or Erie stations!



I don't see ingress as an issue when using high quality coax. If ingress or egress were a problem with high quality RG6 cable, cable tv systems would be broadcasting their signals over the air via their coaxial drops and could be received by anyone in the area with an outdoor antenna. You can read the following paragraphs in context here :

_If "leaky" coax truly exists, what is really happening? I have heard it both

ways, claims that signal "leaks out" or that signals "leak in" to a braid.

Neither seems to be valid, as Belden Bulletin "Guide to Shield Performance

and Selection" indicates that "...coaxial shields were found to perform

equally well for both ingress and egress."


Perhaps the most famous "leaky coax" demonstration is taking a 100 ft piece

of inexpensive coax and terminating it in a 50 ohm load. In connecting the

opposite end to a receiver, signals can be noted that allegedly "leak through

the coax braid". When a piece of hardline is substituted for the coax, the signal levels drop

dramatically._


About fifteen years ago our local cable system (TWC) had a cracked line (solid aluminum jacket) on the utility pole across the street from my house, and I was able to pick up their signals with my antenna. When I called them, they sent someone out immediately to fix the problem. Some cable channels are in the aeronautical band; so the FCC takes a very dim view of leakage (egress) from cable systems.


And yes, as I stated earlier, I do use a Channel Master 7777 Titan2 preamplifier.


Residents of Conneaut are going to have a difficult time receiving any Cleveland digital stations considering that it is in far northeastern Ashtabula County, about 70 miles from the transmitters; however, as I stated in my previous post, I believe that WOIO-DT's signal is receivable in many areas of Lake and Ashtabula counties with the proper setup.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fighting Fish* /forum/post/11683479
> 
> 
> Only dissapointment was that ION doesn't come in hardly at all, and only get 1 PBS statioin.



And there's a very good reason for both.


The ION station (WVPX/23) is licensed to Akron, and the analog blasts in from over near Rolling Acres Mall. But WVPX-DT won't go on the air on channel 59 as planned - WVPX will do a digital "flash cut" to 23 at the analog shutoff in 2009. So right now, their digital signal doesn't EXIST.


As for PBS, you're only getting WEAO/49's DT channel, because WVIZ/25's digital channel has roughly the power of a lightbulb - from a small antenna atop their former building on Brookpark Road in Parma. I've seen people IN PARMA say they can't get it.


We've gone over this a few times, but the reason for that is that there has been a LONG-standing legal and technical dispute between WVIZ and the company which operates its analog tower site in North Royalton, CBS Radio (WNCX/98.5 in specific). A lot of this is detailed in FCC filings, as WVIZ has had to constantly ask the FCC for an extension of its STA for the low-power site.


So, the upshot is that WVIZ-DT is a non-signal for anyone in the Akron area, and for much of greater Cleveland. Time Warner Cable picks it up off-air for rebroadcast on HD channel 710, but they have much bigger antennas than any of us










You probably won't see WVIZ-DT light up full power any EARLIER than next year. And just a year later, they'll have to go up *somewhere* on the analog tower to replace the dead analog signal.


----------



## Fighting Fish

Thanks for the explanation Inundated!


*edit*

I am receiving much more public broadcasting than I initially thought. I have great reception for WVIZ ch. 25 and also WEAO ch. 49.1 and 49.2!


Awesome


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fighting Fish* /forum/post/11683825
> 
> 
> I am receiving much more public broadcasting than I initially thought. I have great reception for WVIZ ch. 25 and also WEAO ch. 49.1 and 49.2!



I'll have to assume that's only WVIZ's analog signal, which has no problem covering Akron. If you're getting WVIZ-DT, I'd like to know how!


----------



## Fighting Fish

ahh, i'm pickin up what your puttin down









i am only getting the wviz analog


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fighting Fish* /forum/post/11684999
> 
> 
> ahh, i'm pickin up what your puttin down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i am only getting the wviz analog



OK, whew!


I'm firmly convinced that the only way most people could pick up WVIZ-DT would be to move to Brookpark Road in Parma.











(Or to put up a giant cable-headend style antenna in your backyard.)


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11685296
> 
> 
> (Or to put up a giant cable-headend style antenna in your backyard.)



Hehe - I've thought about it. I found an FCC web page a few weeks ago that discussed putting up a tower like this for a radio station - suggested reserving almost $2 million, not including the cost of the land, permits, etc.


Of course, a 1000' monster in my backyard might help kick-start my ham radio activity again...










mike


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11685296
> 
> 
> I'm firmly convinced that the only way most people could pick up WVIZ-DT would be to move to Brookpark Road in Parma.
> 
> (Or to put up a giant cable-headend style antenna in your backyard.)



You're right Inundated. I went up to Parma and Seven Hills last week, and I took that portable ATSC tuner with me. I plugged in the silver sensor, and I could BARELY get a lock on the WVIZ-DT signal. I almost had to drive literally up the street from the transmitter just to get a lock on it. It was very difficult, but I can attest to the fact that it does indeed exist. I don't see how this signal can be viewed by more than maybe like 3 people. They're multicasting PBS HD, The Ohio Channel, WVIZ Analog, Some other channel I forget, and an audio channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11688261
> 
> 
> You're right Inundated. I went up to Parma and Seven Hills last week, and I took that portable ATSC tuner with me. I plugged in the silver sensor, and I could BARELY get a lock on the WVIZ-DT signal. I almost had to drive literally up the street from the transmitter just to get a lock on it. It was very difficult, but I can attest to the fact that it does indeed exist. I don't see how this signal can be viewed by more than maybe like 3 people. They're multicasting PBS HD, The Ohio Channel, WVIZ Analog, Some other channel I forget, and an audio channel.



I live in Bainbridge and have no problem picking up WVIZ-DT.


Of course I have cable so that might have something to do with it.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11688420
> 
> 
> I live in Bainbridge and have no problem picking up WVIZ-DT.
> 
> 
> Of course I have cable so that might have something to do with it.



And here I thought that your Parrots delivered the signal! (Masquerading as carrier pigeons?)


----------



## h2o_skiman




> Quote:
> Inundated
> 
> We've gone over this a few times, but the reason for that is that there has been a LONG-standing legal and technical dispute between WVIZ and the company which operates its analog tower site in North Royalton, CBS Radio (WNCX/98.5 in specific). A lot of this is detailed in FCC filings, as WVIZ has had to constantly ask the FCC for an extension of its STA for the low-power site.



I just got a HDTV and I have cable so this is not an issue for me, but a friend has an HDTV w/o cable. I planning to help him with OTA reception this weekend. I just started reading this forum, and maybe I am out of line but I thought I would submit this.


I have not read the entire history of this, but what about going after WNCX / CBS Radio? Mass call ins to NCX's phone lines asking why they are not willing to be helpful to the community by supporting Public Broadcasting. Boycott the the station, find the advertiser list and send them a letter stating that NCX is not helping to provide Digital Public Broadcasting in Cleveland.


E.g. Ganley Auto is sponsoring/supplying a two year lease on a pick up truck for an NCX contest. Tell Ganley that buy advertising on CBS Radio affilliates, they are supporting the effort to keep Digital Public Broadcasting from the Cleveland public.


The other thing would be contact Cleveland City counsel members with the same points that NCX is not being a good citizen. The same goes for congressional leaders and the FCC. All stations have to show they are supporting/active in the community which they serve.


As I wrote this post, I sent a feedback to the studio of NCX asking why they're not helping WVIZ.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *h2o_skiman* /forum/post/11690803
> 
> 
> I just got a HDTV and I have cable so this is not an issue for me, but a friend has an HDTV w/o cable. I planning to help him with OTA reception this weekend. I just started reading this forum, and maybe I am out of line but I thought I would submit this.
> 
> 
> I have not read the entire history of this, but what about going after WNCX / CBS Radio? Mass call ins to NCX's phone lines asking why they are not willing to be helpful to the community by supporting Public Broadcasting. Boycott the the station, find the advertiser list and send them a letter stating that NCX is not helping to provide Digital Public Broadcasting in Cleveland.
> 
> 
> E.g. Ganley Auto is sponsoring/supplying a two year lease on a pick up truck for an NCX contest. Tell Ganley that buy advertising on CBS Radio affilliates, they are supporting the effort to keep Digital Public Broadcasting from the Cleveland public.
> 
> 
> The other thing would be contact Cleveland City counsel members with the same points that NCX is not being a good citizen. The same goes for congressional leaders and the FCC. All stations have to show they are supporting/active in the community which they serve.
> 
> 
> As I wrote this post, I sent a feedback to the studio of NCX asking why they're not helping WVIZ.



I could be wrong but I think WNCX is owned by Clear Channel. If it isn't Clear Channel then it's probably Infinity. Either way that would be a corporate decision, not independet to the station itself.


----------



## h2o_skiman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11690899
> 
> 
> I could be wrong but I think WNCX is owned by Clear Channel. If it isn't Clear Channel then it's probably Infinity. Either way that would be a corporate decision, not independet to the station itself.



The WNCX website carries no information about Clear Channel, but lists itself as a CBS Radio Affiliate.


Clear Channel's website lists WAKS-FM, WGAR-FM, WMJI-FM, WMMS-FM, WMVX-FM, and WTAM-AM.


It doesn't matter as being a corporate decision or the station. If the station loses audience or sponsors, the corporate owner will take note.


I worked for a year in college as an engineer for a two station AM-FM independant broadcaster. When we changed formats on the FM from elevator music to adult-pop, the owner was nervous as hell for the first 21 hours from the switch over because there was nothing but complaints. Then praises started coming in. That was in September. By Christmas, we were number one in the market, over taking the sister AM station's spot. Owners/managers do not like slipping at all.


----------



## h2o_skiman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11660142
> 
> 
> That was not what we were suggesting. We want to put the pressure on Raycom (owners of WOIO) to get their HD act together. The NFL on CBS will be 100% HD starting next season. Patience, please! WOIO OTOH is another story. Their ownership has made some bad decisions from the viewer's point of view (no DD5.1, and insisting on being on ch 10 when a Canadian analog station will be in the way of running a full power signal for years after the U.S. transition ends).



It might not be a bad decision. Also, if they wanted to keep CH-19, they would have had to petition for a live cutover in 2009. They may not have been able to keep the equivalent amount of power they have now in 2009. E.g. Grand Rapids DTV CH-19 at 725kw-ERP and Youngstown DTV CH-20 is listed at 460kw-ERP.


We all know that VHF propagates much better than UHF, especially CH2-6. The limiting factor to WOIO's power currently is CH-10 in Columbus OH at 1000kw ERP. The FCC list shows nearby DTV channels for CH-10 in Onadoga Michigan 11.6kw-ERP, Cinncinnati 15.4kw-ERP, Harrisburg 14kw-ERP and Rochester 5.9kw-ERP.


What I have not seen is how much power they will be able to broadcast after the transition in 2009. If they are stuck at 3.5kw-ERP, then we got screwed.


I find it hard to believe that Raycom would purposely decide to lose audience.


If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.


Also, thanks to the poster of the images of the ERP patterns.


----------



## salemtubes

h2o_skiman, if you'd like to generate your own signal strength maps like Andrew K posted, you can learn all about it at http://tvfool.com/ .


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *h2o_skiman* /forum/post/11692077
> 
> 
> We all know that VHF propagates much better than UHF, especially CH2-6. The limiting factor to WOIO's power currently is CH-10 in Columbus OH at 1000kw ERP. The FCC list shows nearby DTV channels for CH-10 in Onadoga Michigan 11.6kw-ERP, Cinncinnati 15.4kw-ERP, Harrisburg 14kw-ERP and Rochester 5.9kw-ERP.
> 
> 
> What I have not seen is how much power they will be able to broadcast after the transition in 2009. If they are stuck at 3.5kw-ERP, then we got screwed.
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that Raycom would purposely decide to lose audience.
> 
> 
> If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.
> 
> 
> Also, thanks to the poster of the images of the ERP patterns.



You're welcome for the coverage maps. This is something that can be downloaded by visiting the following page...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 


You have to download the information for the specific designated market area (DMA), like Cleveland for example. You have to have Google Earth, and you also have to have uTorrent, which can be downloaded at...

http://www.utorrent.com/ 


This is an excellent tool in generating these coverage maps. You can even zoom in to your street level and view the coverage of a particular TV channel. It's rather interesting.


Let me tell you that CFPL is the reason for why WOIO-DT cannot increase their digital power. This is the biggest reason for why WOIO-DT cannot increase their power. CFPL is an analog channel 10 in London Ontario that can be easily viewed in areas such as Lake and Ashtabula counties. Before WOIO-DT went on the air, I could often view this channel here in Akron. WOIO-DT plans to remain at a measly 3.5 kw even after the transition.


----------



## salemtubes

Andrew, tvfool.com is Andy S. Lee's site, the poster of the thread you referenced.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *h2o_skiman* /forum/post/11692077
> 
> 
> It might not be a bad decision. Also, if they wanted to keep CH-19, they would have had to petition for a live cutover in 2009. They may not have been able to keep the equivalent amount of power they have now in 2009. E.g. Grand Rapids DTV CH-19 at 725kw-ERP and Youngstown DTV CH-20 is listed at 460kw-ERP.
> 
> 
> We all know that VHF propagates much better than UHF, especially CH2-6. The limiting factor to WOIO's power currently is CH-10 in Columbus OH at 1000kw ERP. The FCC list shows nearby DTV channels for CH-10 in Onadoga Michigan 11.6kw-ERP, Cinncinnati 15.4kw-ERP, Harrisburg 14kw-ERP and Rochester 5.9kw-ERP.
> 
> 
> What I have not seen is how much power they will be able to broadcast after the transition in 2009. If they are stuck at 3.5kw-ERP, then we got screwed.
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe that Raycom would purposely decide to lose audience.
> 
> 
> If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.
> 
> 
> Also, thanks to the poster of the images of the ERP patterns.



It takes much less power to broadcast in ATSC (digital) than NTSC (analog) so the comparison between analog & digital transmitter ERP's is a moot, "apples to oranges" comparison.


The bottom line is if not for CFPL WOIO would do fine on ch 10, however CFPL-TV is not going away in Feb. 2009. BTW WOIO's insistance on being on ch 10 has bumped the Columbus station (iirc WBNS) that has been on ch 10 a lot longer than WOIO even existed. I still wonder how they pulled that off. WBNS belongs on ch 10 as their legacy, just as WJW belongs on ch 8. BTW once ch 8's digital signal switches to rf 8 that should be one of the best coverage areas for any N.E. Ohio station.


Even though CBS does not own WOIO, I'm willing to bet the "great FOX swap" of '94 might have something to do with Raycom's insistence to being on ch 10. By WOIO being on ch 10 that puts CBS back on a high-band VHF frequency in Cleveland.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *h2o_skiman* /forum/post/11692077
> 
> 
> If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.



Last time I checked, this is what the anticipated ERPs and channels will be after the switch to digital...


8 WJW (15.7kW 305m)

10 WOIO (3.5kW 304m)

15 WEWS (1000kW 311m)

17 WKYC (1000kW 296m)

20 WFMJ (460kW 295m)

23 WVPX (317kW 296m)

26 WVIZ (100kW 313m)

28 WUAB (200kW 337m)

30 WBNX (1000kW 334m)

34 WQHS (525kW 334m)

36 WYTV (50kW 149m)

39 WDLI (200kW 292m)

41 WKBN (700kW 418m)

45 WNEO (388kW 223m)

47 WOAC (1000kW 134m)

50 WEAO (180kW 305m)


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/11681717
> 
> 
> I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. I narrowed it down to winegard 7080,7082,or 7084 I can't decide.



Anybody?


----------



## bd8494

Okay here we go

I live in Elyria (around 20 miles west from the Cleveland antenna farm) and i need an antenna since dish network dosen't have hd locals. I need an antenna $50 or under that will pick up 3,5,8,19, and 43 in hd. I will list both antennaweb and tvfool info for you guys. Also do you think if the RS DA-5200 will do any good for me. Any help? Thanks, bd8494


P.S. - I am a total newb at this


Antennaweb info:

* yellow - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 100° 19.0 31

* yellow - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 98° 18.9 15

* green - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 97° 18.8 28

red - uhf WVIZ 25 PBS CLEVELAND OH 105° 18.0 25

red - uhf WVPX 23 ION AKRON OH 137° 33.8 23

red - vhf WEWS 5 ABC CLEVELAND OH 98° 18.9 5

* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 96° 20.4 2

red - vhf WJW 8 FOX CLEVELAND OH 100° 19.0 8

red - uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 95° 20.1 19

red - uhf WUAB 43 MNT LORAIN OH 97° 18.8 43

blue - uhf WGGN 52 TBN SANDUSKY OH 279° 36.8 52

blue - vhf WKYC 3 NBC CLEVELAND OH 96° 20.4 3

blue - uhf WEAO 49 PBS AKRON OH 138° 31.0 49

* blue - uhf WVPX-DT 59 ION AKRON OH TBD 137° 33.8 59

blue - uhf WOAC 67 SAH CANTON OH 123° 43.0 67

* blue - uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 105° 17.9 26

blue - uhf WQHS 61 UNI Cleveland OH 96° 19.7 61

* blue - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 96° 19.7 34

blue - uhf WBNX 55 CW AKRON OH 96° 20.1 55

* violet - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 96° 20.1 30

* violet - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 138° 31.0 50

violet - uhf WNWO 24 NBC TOLEDO OH 295° 68.8 24

* violet - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 95° 20.1 10


tvfool attached below:


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *h2o_skiman* /forum/post/11691148
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter as being a corporate decision or the station. If the station loses audience or sponsors, the corporate owner will take note.



FYI - WNCX, as I mentioned, is indeed owned by CBS Radio. It has no connection to Clear Channel...two different companies.


From reading all the FCC filings, the two sides may have actually figured out the technical end of things, but are still kicking some final issues back and forth. Read the below. This is long, but somewhat necessary to clarify what I just said:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=18753 



> Quote:
> THE PRIMARY BAR TO COMPLETION OF DTV IMPLEMENTATION HAS BEEN CONTINUING NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE OWNER OF THE TOWER ON WHICH THE WVIZ-TV ANTENNA AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT IS LOCATED. THE NEGOTIATIONS CONCERN THE INSTALLATION OF THE ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT NEEDED FOR DTV ON THE WVIZ TRANSMITTER SITE. CBS, INC. AND ITS PREDECESSOR VIACOM, INC., THE PARENT COMPANY OF THE PRESENT TOWER OWNER, HAVE EFFECTIVELY BLOCKED THE INSTALLATION PLANS OF WVIZ, DESPITE YEARS OF WORK BETWEEN WVIZ ENGINEERS AND CONSULTANTS AND PREVIOUS OWNERS OF THE TOWER TOWARD IMPLEMENTATION OF THE WVIZ DIGITAL CHANNEL.



(snip)



> Quote:
> THE PARTIES HAVE WORKED FOR OVER THREE YEARS TOWARD RESOLUTION UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE FEDERAL JUDGE, WHO INITIATED A SERIES OF CONFERENCE CALLS WITH COUNSEL IN THE CASE IN ORDER TO AVOID FURTHER LITIGATION. AS A RESULT OF NEARLY THREE YEARS OF EFFORT, ALL TECHNICAL ISSUES HAVE BEEN RESOLVED. NOW THE PARTIES ARE IN THE FINAL STAGES OF NEGOTIATING A LOSS OF BUSINESS INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR VIACOM AS WELL AS THE FORM OF THE DOCUMENT IN WHICH THE PARTIES AGREEMENT WILL BE EMBODIED.





> Quote:
> AS SOON AS THE LEGAL ISSUES ARE RESOLVED, IDEASTREAM WILL ORDER THE ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT NEEDED FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THE ANTICIPATED SIDE-MOUNTED DTV FACILITY. EQUIPMENT DELIVERY SHOULD TAKE PLACE APPROXIMATELY 120 DAYS AFTER ORDERING, AND INSTALLATION WILL BE COMPLETED AS PROMPTLY AS POSSIBLE, DEPENDING UPON THE WEATHER IN THE AREA AT THE TIME THE EQUIPMENT IS RECEIVED. IN ANY EVENT, IDEASTREAM REITERATES ITS INTENTION TO HAVE A PARAGRAPH 78-COMPLIANT FACILITY CONSTRUCTED AS SOON AS IT IS POSSIBLE, AND BEFORE THE FEBRUARY 17, 2009 ANALOG SHUT-OFF. ACCORDINGLY, IDEASTREAM REQUESTS THE FULL 180 DAYS EXTENSION PERMITTED UNDER FCC RULES.
> 
> 
> WHILE THE EVENTUAL FACILITY FOR STATION WVIZ-DT WILL EVENTUALLY BE TOP-MOUNTED ON THE TOWER WHEN THE ANALOG ANTENNA CAN BE REPLACED, IDEASTREAM IS NOT PLEADING THE CIRCUMSTANCE IN SUPPORT OF ITS WAIVER REQUEST DESCRIBED IN THE PUBLIC NOTICE AT PAGE 5. THE MODIFICATION TO THE SIDE-MOUNTED FACILITY TO BE PERMITTED BY THE TOWER OWNER SHOULD COMPLY WITH PARAGRAPH 78 OF THE ORDER.



All of this was written in July, 2006, and this particular application was approved in May of this year. I have no idea what has changed in that time frame, or since May.


Technically, it appears CBS/WNCX wants WVIZ to put up a side-mounted antenna for the pre-2009 installation, and the station can then replace its top mounted analog antenna after the shutoff. Legally, it appears that at least of the writing of the above, CBS/WNCX was apparently concerned with the installation proposed earlier.


I'd back off of any threats to boycott or whatnot, frankly. It sounds like they're near resolution, but of course, this being Northeast Ohio and winter being not far off, we may or may not see this nailed down before 2008.


Oh, and E-Mailing the station studio feedback probably gets sent to the on-air person, anyway, who has no idea what any of this is about.


Back off a little.


----------



## Fighting Fish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bd8494* /forum/post/11701298
> 
> 
> Okay here we go
> 
> I live in Elyria (around 20 miles west from the Cleveland antenna farm) and i need an antenna since dish network dosen't have hd locals. I need an antenna $50 or under that will pick up 3,5,8,19, and 43 in hd.



I can't speak about your location in particular. However, I live in Akron and just put up the Channel Master 4228 antenna. I bought it for $49.51 plus $16 shipping. I get great reception with this antenna, receiving all the channels you listed and more. I thought 16 bucks was steep for shipping, but it arrived in two days FedEx from Indiana. I'm totally pleased. The cost of my antenna and shipping are about what I would pay for one month of cable t.v.


----------



## bd8494




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fighting Fish* /forum/post/11701882
> 
> 
> I can't speak about your location in particular. However, I live in Akron and just put up the Channel Master 4228 antenna. I bought it for $49.51 plus $16 shipping. I get great reception with this antenna, receiving all the channels you listed and more. I thought 16 bucks was steep for shipping, but it arrived in two days FedEx from Indiana. I'm totally pleased. The cost of my antenna and shipping are about what I would pay for one month of cable t.v.



Okay thanks for that because I am a total newb at this.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/11699889
> 
> 
> Anybody?



Hi,

We own and installed the Winegard 8200(their largest) and it works pretty well on uhf and vhf from about 70 miles away. If possible I'd go with the largest antenna you can deal with like the 7084. That way if the signal is weak for whatever reason(weather or interference), you'll keep a solid signal.


I really enjoy being able to pull in hi-def free off the air.


Let us know if you need help.


cheers,

Tom


----------



## quadmandan97

Does anyone know why WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND picture have a big gap on the bottom. I have a Westinghouse 32w6 which has no overscan, and this is very distracting. Is there anyone I can complain too.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quadmandan97* /forum/post/11705020
> 
> 
> Does anyone know why WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND picture have a big gap on the bottom. I have a Westinghouse 32w6 which has no overscan, and this is very distracting. Is there anyone I can complain too.



IIRC, the engineer from WEWS was on here a while ago saying their encoder was causing this problem, so they do know about it. I see the same black bar at the bottom on my Panny 1080p plasma (no overscan)


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quadmandan97* /forum/post/11705020
> 
> 
> Does anyone know why WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND picture have a big gap on the bottom. I have a Westinghouse 32w6 which has no overscan, and this is very distracting. Is there anyone I can complain too.



Good luck complaining about it to anyone. It's been that way for a long time. So I don't think they really care to fix it anytime soon.


----------



## asl10

Has anyone heard anything about our local Time Warner affiliate adding TBS HD in advance of the MLB playoffs which start October 3rd.


I do not look forward to watching all 4 division round series' in standard definition on my plasma!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *asl10* /forum/post/11705199
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard anything about our local Time Warner affiliate adding TBS HD in advance of the MLB playoffs which start October 3rd.
> 
> 
> I do not look forward to watching all 4 division round series' in standard definition on my plasma!



If you're planning on watching on TW I would plan on watching in SD. However no one really knows what TW is planning on adding except one member name handsworth and he hasn't said anything in a long, long time.


Perhaps TW will use the 998 channel for Trbe games but I wouldn't bet money on it.


----------



## jenaty

Originally Posted by jenaty

Hello,

My name is Jeff gatchel and I live in Perry OH. I go down to Cleveland Muni Parking lot to tailgate the Browns game. I have a question for you and was just wondering if you could help. I take a 42 inch LCD HDTV down with me and have a Radio Shack Outdoor HDTV Amplified Ant. Cat. #15-2187 Here is the addy for it;
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family 


I was wondering if you could tell me how to point this thing. I will have it on top of my camper about 12' in the air or a bit higher. I do have lat and lon numbers for muni

Lat = 41.507038

Lon = -81.692826

The channels would be either WOIO or Fox

All I can find is 172.5 for WOIO and 178.6 for Fox Is this a direction to aim with a compass? Would I have to aim that antenna on an angle? lol. I sure hope you can take the time to help me

Thank you very much. You can email me at
[email protected]


----------



## jtscherne

I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fighting Fish* /forum/post/11701882
> 
> 
> I can't speak about your location in particular. However, I live in Akron and just put up the Channel Master 4228 antenna.



Inside attic mount, or outside roof?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11706560
> 
> 
> I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...



Interesting. I didn't see that but they must have got a bunch to run that.


And for the record I was right. Raiders won.


Congrats to the Tribe!


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jenaty* /forum/post/11706053
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by jenaty
> 
> Hello,
> 
> My name is Jeff gatchel and I live in Perry OH. I go down to Cleveland Muni Parking lot to tailgate the Browns game. I have a question for you and was just wondering if you could help. I take a 42 inch LCD HDTV down with me and have a Radio Shack Outdoor HDTV Amplified Ant. Cat. #15-2187 Here is the addy for it;
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family
> 
> 
> I was wondering if you could tell me how to point this thing. I will have it on top of my camper about 12' in the air or a bit higher. I do have lat and lon numbers for muni
> 
> Lat = 41.507038
> 
> Lon = -81.692826
> 
> The channels would be either WOIO or Fox
> 
> All I can find is 172.5 for WOIO and 178.6 for Fox Is this a direction to aim with a compass? Would I have to aim that antenna on an angle? lol. I sure hope you can take the time to help me
> 
> Thank you very much. You can email me at
> [email protected]



Yes, those numbers indicate the compass direction. 0° = north, 90° = east, 180° = south and 270° = west.


----------



## ParsonsBri




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne*  /forum/post/11706560
> 
> 
> I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...



I saw that. Althought I thought it was funny at the time, my laughter was short lived. Brownies/Ravens will be in SD. Three straight frickin weeks.

what do they have agains the Cleveland market?


----------



## jenaty

thank you


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ParsonsBri* /forum/post/11708509
> 
> 
> I saw that. Althought I thought it was funny at the time, my laughter was short lived. Brownies/Ravens will be in SD. Three straight frickin weeks.
> 
> what do they have agains the Cleveland market?



Obviously they don't think this is an important market. Either that or they believe that since "Cleveland" is one of the poorest cities in the country nobody can afford an HD set.










I think Cleveland (itself) has a bad reputation. I never say I'm from Cleveland I always say I live "inbetween Cleveland and Akron" which is the truth, or just "Northeast Ohio."


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11704547
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We own and installed the Winegard 8200(their largest) and it works pretty well on uhf and vhf from about 70 miles away. If possible I'd go with the largest antenna you can deal with like the 7084. That way if the signal is weak for whatever reason(weather or interference), you'll keep a solid signal.



Also, from your location Jigga Moog, the only stations you could have problems with are the Akron stations. Since you are only 10 miles from the Parma farm, I would not recommend a preamp on your antenna. 20 miles or more, a preamp definately helps things out.


----------



## HD MM

Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ober/#comments


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11712603
> 
> 
> Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ober/#comments



Actually it wouldn't surprise me at all if they release some new HD channels. October seems to be a month in the past when Adelphia use to like to do it for whatever reason and with the Tribe in the playoffs it makes all kinds of sense to make TBS available ASAP. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11706560
> 
> 
> I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...



In addition to the game not being in HD the color of the SD picture looked washed-out. I switched to WKBN-DT and it too had the same washed-out appearance. So this one had to be CBS' fault.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11712998
> 
> 
> In addition to the game not being in HD the color of the SD picture looked washed-out. I switched to WKBN-DT and it too had the same washed-out appearance. So this one had to be CBS' fault.



I watched on WOIO-DT (non HD) and I too felt it looked washed out.


----------



## Fighting Fish




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11707101
> 
> 
> Inside attic mount, or outside roof?



roof mount. It's off an old rusty mast attached to the non functional chimney. friggin' scary up there, the shingles turn to loose debris under your feet.


----------



## DaMavs

FWIW, I got a 2nd HR20-100 installed yesterday and when I hooked up the OTA, it would not tune to 3-1 either. It seems that "feature" is still present. The silver lining being w/MPEG4 locals you don't really need it unless you really want the weather plus access.


Unfortunately the new HR20 has odd audio glitches on many channels which was bad enough I had it deactivated pending a service call. Quite sad.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/11720678
> 
> 
> FWIW, I got a 2nd HR20-100 installed yesterday and when I hooked up the OTA, it would not tune to 3-1 either. It seems that "feature" is still present. The silver lining being w/MPEG4 locals you don't really need it unless you really want the weather plus access.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the new HR20 has odd audio glitches on many channels which was bad enough I had it deactivated pending a service call. Quite sad.



Did the first HR20 give problems ota also? I'll have two HR20s coming soon. Plz keep us updated on your results.


thx,

Tom


----------



## jtscherne

I have the HR20-700 (the first model). It used to have OTA issues with Channel 3, but it comes in perfectly now.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11720840
> 
> 
> Did the first HR20 give problems ota also? I'll have two HR20s coming soon. Plz keep us updated on your results.
> 
> 
> thx,
> 
> Tom


----------



## hookbill

Could DeMavs problem be simply an update that should be coming forward?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/11720678
> 
> 
> FWIW, I got a 2nd HR20-100 installed yesterday and when I hooked up the OTA, it would not tune to 3-1 either. It seems that "feature" is still present. The silver lining being w/MPEG4 locals you don't really need it unless you really want the weather plus access.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the new HR20 has odd audio glitches on many channels which was bad enough I had it deactivated pending a service call. Quite sad.



I reported the same issue with the HR20-100 a couple months ago. I even got the 2nd tier tech support at D* to call the HR20 program management group. They confirmed that it was a problem (can't receive low VHF signals) which they thought had been "fixed" by a prior firmware upgrade. At that time they claimed that they entered the issue as a problem and that it would be resolved in future firmware releases.


I'm hopeful; but definitely not holding my breath.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11712603
> 
> 
> Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ober/#comments



Unfortunately no mention of the two I really want to see... VSHD (for NHL) and WBNXHD (for Supernatural).


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11720857
> 
> 
> I have the HR20-700 (the first model). It used to have OTA issues with Channel 3, but it comes in perfectly now.



Maybe the problem is only with the -100s then. Thx for posting.


Anyone using an DirecTv HR20-100 who can bring in WKYC 3.1 via ota?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11721066
> 
> 
> Could DeMavs problem be simply an update that should be coming forward?



I think you're right. Let's hope so.


Plz keep us updated Mavs.


----------



## [email protected]

Guys,


Just spent the last several hours searching through this thread looking for a definitive answer to a basic question...


What clear QAM channels are available via Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland area? I have confirmation that you can get 3,5,8,19, and 43. What about PBS, Discover HD Theater, Universal HD, and MOJO? Thanks!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/11725814
> 
> 
> Guys,
> 
> 
> Just spent the last several hours searching through this thread looking for a definitive answer to a basic question...
> 
> 
> What clear QAM channels are available via Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland area? I have confirmation that you can get 3,5,8,19, and 43. What about PBS, Discover HD Theater, Universal HD, and MOJO? Thanks!



Every area is different. You'll have to specify exactly what area you live in if you want more help. I won't be of much help though since I live in Canton. I assume you're talking about HD. At the very least you'll get your "3,5,8,19, and 43". However you may get 1 or 2 other HDs depending on exactly where you live. You also may get a dozen or so non-HD digital channels, like TBS, FoodNetwork, FitTV, E!, Discovery, TheTube, etc...


----------



## hookbill

TW is not showing WUAB-HD right now. I've got a grey screen on both my S3 and my HD STB.


OTA guys are you having any problems?


----------



## harry44333

I just joined this forum and thought I would put in my 2 cents worth. I live over in the Fairlawn area where my reception is good at best. I spend 9 dollars a month on "budget basic which gets me all the local channels and SPIKE, Oxygen and CMT (wow). I was content with that for a while until I bought a new Vizio HDTV last month. All of a sudden I had those same channels PLUS HDTV Channels 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 25.1 and a few others 3.1 rarely works and I also have about 30 music channels. Don't ask me why But I did...all for 9 bucks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harry44333* /forum/post/11726551
> 
> 
> I just joined this forum and thought I would put in my 2 cents worth. I live over in the Fairlawn area where my reception is good at best. I spend 9 dollars a month on "budget basic which gets me all the local channels and SPIKE, Oxygen and CMT (wow). I was content with that for a while until I bought a new Vizio HDTV last month. All of a sudden I had those same channels PLUS HDTV Channels 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 25.1 and a few others 3.1 rarely works and I also have about 30 music channels. Don't ask me why But I did...all for 9 bucks.



That's because you are getting unencrypted digital channels.


----------



## harry44333

I guess I should just shut up and not advertise it?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *harry44333* /forum/post/11726601
> 
> 
> I guess I should just shut up and not advertise it?



No, it's not a secret or anything like that. Just enjoy it and don't worry.


----------



## [email protected]




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11725990
> 
> 
> Every area is different. You'll have to specify exactly what area you live in if you want more help. I won't be of much help though since I live in Canton. I assume you're talking about HD. At the very least you'll get your "3,5,8,19, and 43". However you may get 1 or 2 other HDs depending on exactly where you live. You also may get a dozen or so non-HD digital channels, like TBS, FoodNetwork, FitTV, E!, Discovery, TheTube, etc...



I live in Sheffield Village but I believe the feed that is set up in XP MCE 2005 is Cleveland Heights, Time Warner Cable. Thanks!


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11726314
> 
> 
> TW is not showing WUAB-HD right now. I've got a grey screen on both my S3 and my HD STB.
> 
> 
> OTA guys are you having any problems?



Yes. I did an hour ago; but I'm getting it fine now.


----------



## godshammgod




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341*  /forum/post/11604072
> 
> 
> Where are you located? I get WKYC-DT with rabbit ears, but I can see the tower out my back window. Even that close it takes some time adjusting the rabbit ears. Reception is not guaranteed even if the tower lights are reflecting off my neighbor's windows (which they literally do).
> 
> 
> Rule #1 for WKYC-DT - you need to pull the rabbit ears out to the maximum extension. If that extension does not equal 8 feet get another set of rabbit ears that are large enough.
> 
> 
> Rule #2 for any indoor antenna - put it by a window that faces the direction of the transmitter. Siding, brick, and insulation mangles the OTA signals even here at "ground zero". A window (preferably with no screen) is the only interference-free location to place an indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> A rule of thumb: if the analog picture is crappy using that antenna, you will probably not get a good lock on the digital signal for that station.



i live on da eastside of cleveland....less than 10 miles from the antenna farm


i tried extendin the rabbit ears out to as far as they can go but i can never hold the picture on wkyc. i heard most people cant get it since its on a very low frequency (61.25 MHz)


i dont have any windows by my computer so i cant put it by a window and i cant have an outdoor antenna due to living situation


----------



## TechWhore

Ok after reading through probably 700 posts (480 of which had to be Indians/Browns talk







) I have some of the answers I was looking for. But I still have a few questions:



1.) currently there is not plans for WOIO to move there channel to uhf or increase there wattage? I live in Shaker Heights in an apartment and can get every channel but WOIO and WKYC?


2.) When does WKYC plan to move is it before 2009 or do we have to wait? Will it be to uhf or vhf still?


3.) When WJW switches over will we see a decrease in signal like the other VHF channels?


It really sucks because my list of shows I watch is almost entirely on WOIO or WKYC. Almost all the major 20 cities are in uhf for digital, why are these stations still toying with vhf?


----------



## HD MM

As some of you already know, D* made a huge step in their efforts to add more HD channels, with 21 new additions this morning. For those of you who are subs to D*'s competitors, this can only mean good things for the future of HD as competition is typically good for the consumer.


As more folks jump on the HD bandwagon, I felt we should have a comprehensive list to distinguish between the 5 main providers in the area. (D*, E*, TW, WOW! and at&t U-verse). I made an effort to construct an excel spreadsheet that clearly identifies which channels are available in our Cleveland market among these providers.


I hope this list serves as a helpful tool to those who consider HD to be at the top of their list of factors in deciding between providers.


*As a side note, I excluded Pay Per View HD, On-Demand HD, DSN HD and RSN HD channels not relevant to our local Cleveland market. If there is any errors or omissions, please PM me so I can correct them.


*Edit. I recently made the Excel Spreadsheet available through a dedicated web page via Google Docs. See link for the Holy Grail listing of D*, E*, TW, WOW! and at&t U-verse HD channels available in our market: HERE.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11732143
> 
> 
> As some of you already know, D* made a huge step in their efforts to add more HD channels, with 21 new additions this morning. For those of you who are subs to D*'s competitors, this can only mean good things for the future of HD as competition is typically good for the consumer.
> 
> 
> As more folks jump on the HD bandwagon, I felt we should have a comprehensive list to distinguish between the 3 main providers in the area. (D*, E* and TW). I made an effort to construct an excel spreadsheet that clearly identifies which channels are available in our Cleveland market among these providers.
> 
> 
> I hope this list serves as a helpful tool to those who consider HD to be at the top of their list of factors in deciding between providers.
> 
> 
> *As a side note, I excluded pay-per view and/or on-demand HD channels. If there is any errors or omissions, please PM me so I can correct them.
> 
> 
> See attached zipped excel spreadsheet for the Holy Grail listing of D*, E* and TW HD channels available in our market.......
> 
> Attachment 90502



Since I have a line of sight problem, I don't even want to look.







But I'm sure everyone will appreciate your effort.


Be forewarned however: Rumor has it TW is going to make a move on 10/1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TechWhore* /forum/post/11728104
> 
> 
> Ok after reading through probably 700 posts (480 of which had to be Indians/Browns talk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I have some of the answers I was looking for. But I still have a few questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.) currently there is not plans for WOIO to move there channel to uhf or increase there wattage? I live in Shaker Heights in an apartment and can get every channel but WOIO and WKYC?
> 
> 
> 2.) When does WKYC plan to move is it before 2009 or do we have to wait? Will it be to uhf or vhf still?
> 
> 
> 3.) When WJW switches over will we see a decrease in signal like the other VHF channels?
> 
> 
> It really sucks because my list of shows I watch is almost entirely on WOIO or WKYC. Almost all the major 20 cities are in uhf for digital, why are these stations still toying with vhf?



Because you are new I didn't want you to feel ignored, so welcome to this thread. So how far do you think the Tribe will go in the playoffs?










Seriously we're all pretty much friends here so sometimes we do go off track. Since I don't get my HD OTA I can't help you with your questions.


----------



## ClevelandRob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11732246
> 
> 
> 
> Be forewarned however: Rumor has it TW is going to make a move on 10/1.




What's gonna happen, Bill?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11732246
> 
> 
> Since I have a line of sight problem, I don't even want to look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm sure everyone will appreciate your effort.
> 
> 
> Be forewarned however: Rumor has it TW is going to make a move on 10/1.



A little birdy also told me that D* isn't done yet either! Anyways, I will happily make addendum's to the list as additions/changes occur. Feel free to mark the post # and check back as updates occur.......


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/11732429
> 
> 
> What's gonna happen, Bill?




First, a slap upside your head for calling me Bill (see sig).


From HD MM:


Originally Posted by HD MM

Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ober/#comments


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11732581
> 
> 
> First, a slap upside your head for calling me Bill (see sig).
> 
> 
> From HD MM:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by HD MM
> 
> Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ober/#comments



That link takes you to Engadget's main page. Here's what you're looking for Hook: http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ls-in-october/


----------



## jtscherne

Not to give you more work, but...










I think you should consider adding uVerse and WOW, since in some areas they are alternatives to the other three. I know in South Euclid I've seen AT&T trucks all over the place...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11732143
> 
> 
> As some of you already know, D* made a huge step in their efforts to add more HD channels, with 21 new additions this morning. For those of you who are subs to D*'s competitors, this can only mean good things for the future of HD as competition is typically good for the consumer.
> 
> 
> As more folks jump on the HD bandwagon, I felt we should have a comprehensive list to distinguish between the 3 main providers in the area. (D*, E* and TW). I made an effort to construct an excel spreadsheet that clearly identifies which channels are available in our Cleveland market among these providers.
> 
> 
> I hope this list serves as a helpful tool to those who consider HD to be at the top of their list of factors in deciding between providers.
> 
> 
> *As a side note, I excluded pay-per view and/or on-demand HD channels. If there is any errors or omissions, please PM me so I can correct them.
> 
> 
> See attached zipped excel spreadsheet for the Holy Grail listing of D*, E* and TW HD channels available in our market.......
> 
> Attachment 90502


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11732883
> 
> 
> Not to give you more work, but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should consider adding uVerse and WOW, since in some areas they are alternatives to the other three. I know in South Euclid I've seen AT&T trucks all over the place...



If someone can provide me a list of which HD channels are available on those providers, I will consider a revision. Please include RSN's, locals and national HD channels as well.....


----------



## ClevelandRob

Bill,


Does TW offer the CW (WBNX-HD 55.1) in HD?


Thanks.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/11733162
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> 
> Does TW offer the CW (WBNX-HD 55.1) in HD?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



no


----------



## HD MM

 Post # 9752 which contains the "Cleveland, OH- HD Channel List" was revised to add STO-HD to TW. An asterisk was also added next to TW to caution the variance of HD channels which is dependent on where in NE Ohio your service would be located.


----------



## HDTD

Anyone find it kind of odd that Time Warner owns CNN, yet no CNN HD for the CNN HD roll out here in Northeast Ohio?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/11733597
> 
> 
> Anyone find it kind of odd that Time Warner owns CNN, yet no CNN HD for the CNN HD roll out here in Northeast Ohio?



Maybe in a week... we'll see.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11732976
> 
> 
> If someone can provide me a list of which HD channels are available on those providers, I will consider a revision. Please include RSN's, locals and national HD channels as well.....



Here's the list for WOW: (scroll to bottom of page for the HD channels)

http://www1.wowway.com/cable/cable.a...RCView=Nothing


----------



## paule123

Here's the list for U-Verse:

http://www.att.com/Common/files/pdf/...nel_Lineup.pdf


----------



## HD MM

paule123.......


Post #9752 


containing "Cleveland, OH- HD Channel List by Provider" was updated to include WOW! and at&t U-verse HD channels........


----------



## ajstan99

HD MM - thanks for the time and effort in pulling this info together. What a great resource!


Another question that gets asked is which stations are available via clear QAM. Maybe you could highlight those in bold?


For WOW, the clear QAM HD channels are:


WKYC- NBC HD

WEWS- ABC HD

WJW- FOX HD

WOIO- CBS HD

WUAB- My Network TV HD


While not HD, other digital stations available via clear QAM are:


Weather Plus (WOIO)

Weather Now (WKYC)

The Tube (WUAB)

Music Choice (around 40 channels)


Thanks again!


----------



## paule123

Eh, I wouldn't bother keeping up with the list of clear QAMs. If the cable company has their system configured properly, they should all have the local OTA digitals in the clear, and everything else should be encrypted. Anything beyond the local digitals in the clear is a lucky bonus and shouldn't be relied upon to be there forever. They could disappear at any moment. JMHO...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11735693
> 
> 
> Eh, I wouldn't bother keeping up with the list of clear QAMs. If the cable company has their system configured properly, they should all have the local OTA digitals in the clear, and everything else should be encrypted. Anything beyond the local digitals in the clear is a lucky bonus and shouldn't be relied upon to be there forever. They could disappear at any moment. JMHO...



I more then agree. And in my opinion HD MM did everyone a huge favor. I can understand a couple of things being requested but listing QAMS seems a bit unreasonable. Give him a break.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11735693
> 
> 
> Eh, I wouldn't bother keeping up with the list of clear QAMs. If the cable company has their system configured properly, they should all have the local OTA digitals in the clear, and everything else should be encrypted. Anything beyond the local digitals in the clear is a lucky bonus and shouldn't be relied upon to be there forever. They could disappear at any moment. JMHO...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11735939
> 
> 
> I more then agree. And in my opinion HD MM did everyone a huge favor. I can understand a couple of things being requested but listing QAMS seems a bit unreasonable. Give him a break.



Sorry for asking. Didn't mean to be in bad form or come across as unreasonable. I'm a little out of practice asking for help around here as the vast majority of my posts on AVS are to help others. Thought that thanking HD MM twice and acknowledging his efforts in my post/request was appropriate.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/11736301
> 
> 
> Sorry for asking. Didn't mean to be in bad form or come across as unreasonable. I'm a little out of practice asking for help around here as the vast majority of my posts on AVS are to help others. Thought that thanking HD MM twice and acknowledging his efforts in my post/request was appropriate.



Yeah, I kind of came down on you a bit hard I guess. Paule123 did a good job of answering you and I should have just stayed out of it. I like this thread and I don't want you feeling bad so my apology right back to you.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *godshammgod* /forum/post/11727768
> 
> 
> i live on da eastside of cleveland....less than 10 miles from the antenna farm
> 
> 
> i tried extendin the rabbit ears out to as far as they can go but i can never hold the picture on wkyc. i heard most people cant get it since its on a very low frequency (61.25 MHz)
> 
> 
> i dont have any windows by my computer so i cant put it by a window and i cant have an outdoor antenna due to living situation



It's not the low frequency that is hindering some people from getting WKYC-DT, it's the fact that you need a large antenna to properly receive the signal and outlying areas get more interference on 2 - 6 than the higher channels.


Can you get an antenna in the attic? That is the next best choice after an outdoor antenna (presuming the attic is not full of aluminum clad insulation).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TechWhore* /forum/post/11728104
> 
> 
> Ok after reading through probably 700 posts (480 of which had to be Indians/Browns talk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) I have some of the answers I was looking for. But I still have a few questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.) currently there is not plans for WOIO to move there channel to uhf or increase there wattage? I live in Shaker Heights in an apartment and can get every channel but WOIO and WKYC?
> 
> 
> 2.) When does WKYC plan to move is it before 2009 or do we have to wait? Will it be to uhf or vhf still?
> 
> 
> 3.) When WJW switches over will we see a decrease in signal like the other VHF channels?
> 
> 
> It really sucks because my list of shows I watch is almost entirely on WOIO or WKYC. Almost all the major 20 cities are in uhf for digital, why are these stations still toying with vhf?



1.) WOIO wants to stay on VHF, unfortunately the "high" VHF channels are the only ones worth keeping (too much interference on 2-6 plus you need an 8' element to get ch 2). Ch 10 (WOIO's current digital frequency) has a Canadian analog station it has to protect, even after the U.S. switches off analog Canadian analogs will still be on for a few more years due to Canada's late start in the digital conversion process. There really isn't any high VHF channels free, no matter which Hi VHF channel they try there will be a nearby market with a station operating that has to be protected.


2.) WKYC will be moving to UHF ch 17 once WDLI-TV in Canton shuts down. WDLI-DT is on ch 39 and can be received well here in Parma (WDLI-17 was nearly impossible to get).


3.) Since WJW-DT will return to it's legacy ch 8 the signal should be excellent for everyone. Since there is no other ch 8 within 200 miles they will not suffer the same problems WOIO-Dt has with ch 10. I predict WJW-DT on 8 will rival WKBN-DT's coverage!


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11737636
> 
> 
> I predict WJW-DT on 8 will rival WKBN-DT's coverage!



This may very well be true. With 15.7 kW on channel 8, that's a big difference compared to what WOIO-DT is currently putting out on channel 10 at 3.5 kW.


When the analog channels go off the air, does anyone think that this will improve digital reception by minimizing interference? Will this make any drastic difference to the channels we are currently having difficulty with OTA?


----------



## HD MM

CBS released their HD plans for the NFL up through Week 7.


Here's a brief outline of our beloved Brownie's and how they fared....


Week 4: Sunday, Sept. 30- Baltimore @ Cleveland, 1:00 p.m. (CBS SD)









Week 5: Sunday, Oct. 7- Cleveland @ New England, 1:00 p.m. (CBS HD)









Week 6: Sunday, Oct. 14- Miami @ Cleveland, 1:00 p.m. (CBS SD)









Week 7: Sunday, Oct. 21- BYE WEEK for Cleveland










For all other CBS covered teams please visit.....

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/11735396
> 
> 
> HD MM - thanks for the time and effort in pulling this info together. What a great resource!
> 
> 
> Another question that gets asked is which stations are available via clear QAM. Maybe you could highlight those in bold?
> 
> 
> Thanks again!



ajstan99,


Thank you for the suggestion, however I decided to keep it as is. Reason being is that this list was meant to be just that; a list of HD channels available to each provider. Chances are that if the provider of choice (applies to cable only) carries a local HD channel to begin with, it may very well also be available in the clear. The problem is that these QAM in the clear's aren't a given and shouldn't be depended on as they can disappear at any given moment.


For the rest of you who are subs to any of these providers (D*, E*, TW, Wow! or at&t U-verse) please feel free to update me as new HD channels are added. I will try to keep everything as up-to-date as possible as changes/additions are made.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11735693
> 
> 
> Eh, I wouldn't bother keeping up with the list of clear QAMs. If the cable company has their system configured properly, they should all have the local OTA digitals in the clear, and everything else should be encrypted. Anything beyond the local digitals in the clear is a lucky bonus and shouldn't be relied upon to be there forever. They could disappear at any moment. JMHO...



That's not necessarily true. In Time Warner's case, they seem to have a policy that sends HD channels in the clear if they are part of the basic T/W package, and encrypts them if they are part of the add-on HD tier. As a result, they send a number of unencrypted channels that are NOT local, like TNTHD and Discovery HD. That doesn't seem to be a mistake.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/11739673
> 
> 
> This may very well be true. With 15.7 kW on channel 8, that's a big difference compared to what WOIO-DT is currently putting out on channel 10 at 3.5 kW.
> 
> 
> When the analog channels go off the air, does anyone think that this will improve digital reception by minimizing interference? Will this make any drastic difference to the channels we are currently having difficulty with OTA?



When the analog stations go black that should help some. Do a Google search for "FCC white space" and read about the additional threats to DTV. If allowed, the "white spaces" (unused channels) between the stations will be used for wireless devices. It sounds simple enough until you start seeing the interference issues created. We all know how sensitive digital is to interference. It could really be a problem.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/11742008
> 
> 
> That's not necessarily true. In Time Warner's case, they seem to have a policy that sends HD channels in the clear if they are part of the basic T/W package, and encrypts them if they are part of the add-on HD tier. As a result, they send a number of unencrypted channels that are NOT local, like TNTHD and Discovery HD. That doesn't seem to be a mistake.




FACT: If anyone (with TW) is receiving anything but local tv stations in HD/DT, then those stations that are "in addition to" the local channels, could be taken away without recorse at any time.



I watch my HD via QAM right now, and I do NOT receive DiscoveryHD or TNTHD. The only HD channels I get are ABC. NBC, CBS, WUAB, FOX, and PBS. Now I do get some other digital channels, but they're not HD. My situation is the perfect example of why you can't group everyone together and say _THIS_ is what you get via QAM. It just varies too much.


----------



## Ognir

My provider told me if the channel is on their basic tier and that channel has an HD channel they provide it, and in my case that includes TNT,ESPN and ESPN2.


----------



## DaMavs

I received a replacement HR20-100 yesterday & got it installed. Oddly enough the D* installer had just dropped it off by my front door - worked out well for me as I'd prefer to install it myself anyway & I had a tight schedule yesterday so that made it easy. Although I think D* told him it was a morning appointment while I was expecting afternoon & thus he just dropped it off when no one was home.


The new HR20 did not have the audio dropouts of the other one. It still does not receive 3-1 (or 3-2) OTA, but does receive them via MPEG4 HD locals over the satellite so it's frankly not a big deal to me, but it seems consistent that no HR20-100's running firmware 18A receive 3-1 OTA.


Was also pleased to note that the long waited for initial rollout of more HD occurred on D* sometime yesterday. A&E, Golf Channel, Animal Planet, CNN, History Channel (I think), TBS (just in time for the playoffs), Starz and some others are now available in HD. Looked pretty good at a glance, but I didn't do an exhaustive study...


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11741824
> 
> 
> ajstan99, Thank you for the suggestion, however I decided to keep it as is.



That's cool. Appreciate all your work in pulling the info together.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/11746310
> 
> 
> The new HR20 did not have the audio dropouts of the other one. It still does not receive 3-1 (or 3-2) OTA, but does receive them via MPEG4 HD locals over the satellite so it's frankly not a big deal to me, but it seems consistent that no HR20-100's running firmware 18A receive 3-1 OTA.



That doesn't sound good for the HR20 receiving 3-1 if your 2nd unit didn't either. Our HR20s will be here on Tuesday and will be interesting to see what happens. thx for the update.


----------



## Inundated

HD MM - excellent comparison list!


One note: TWC (I believe all areas) also does carry FSN Ohio HD. On the former Adelphia systems, it shares 798 with STO HD. I believe in the TWC "legacy" systems (Akron/Canton/etc.), it may have a separate channel.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11750570
> 
> 
> HD MM - excellent comparison list!
> 
> 
> One note: TWC (I believe all areas) also does carry FSN Ohio HD. On the former Adelphia systems, it shares 798 with STO HD. I believe in the TWC "legacy" systems (Akron/Canton/etc.), it may have a separate channel.



Excellent. Thanks for the tip. I will make the appropriate changes.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11742201
> 
> 
> FACT: If anyone (with TW) is receiving anything but local tv stations in HD/DT, then those stations that are "in addition to" the local channels, could be taken away without recorse at any time.



Of course. They can change their policy whenever they like. There's no legal requirement for them to provide these. My only point is that they are not provided "by accident".


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11587318
> 
> 
> Emailed and received a worthy response from Pat Weed:
> 
> Thank you for your interest in our programming.
> 
> 
> Yes, we are aware of the audio drops on the HD programming. The encoder we are using was state-of-the-art in 2003 (at a cost of $350K) when we began digital transmission. Recently, PBS began transmitting the signal to us via satellite using a slightly updated data stream. The encoder is not capable of handling the signal well, and that causes the occasional hiccups. We have a new encoder in the works and hope to have it in place by the end of the year. We are sorry for the inconvenience, but this digital transmission is still in its infancy. It is well worth the effort however!
> 
> 
> Thanks again for watching PBS 45 & 49.
> End of the year isn't so bad, considering we're half way through September










Well, I have been attempting to watch "The War" on 49.1. It's been very rough trying to make it through all the audio "hiccups" when watching the HD feed. The pictures looks awesome! The audio... not so much.


Oh well. Hopefully they can get their issue fixed by the end of the year as your post indicates. PBS HD usually rebroadcasts this stuff for a while.


----------



## Smarty-pants

When I watch PBS-HD on TW via QAM, the hiccups are there on WNEO/WEAO-HD, but when I watch WVIZ-HD, the hiccups are not there.


----------



## terryfoster

WOW! will be carrying BTN starting this weekend:
http://www1.wowway.com/cable/cable.a...06&RCView=Main


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/11754539
> 
> 
> WOW! will be carrying BTN starting this weekend:
> http://www1.wowway.com/cable/cable.a...06&RCView=Main



Sure am glad I'm not a WOW customer. I'd hate for them to waste my money on that crap. TW does a good job wasting my money as it is.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/11754539
> 
> 
> WOW! will be carrying BTN starting this weekend:
> http://www1.wowway.com/cable/cable.a...06&RCView=Main



Great news terryforster. I don't see any mention of BTN being in HD through WOW! though. Let me know if or when that happens and I will add it to the list.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11754937
> 
> 
> Sure am glad I'm not a WOW customer. I'd hate for them to waste my money on that crap. TW does a good job wasting my money as it is.



Well, who knows how much they're requiring per customer and your cable rates are going to go up anyway. Don't you want something for your money?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/11755076
> 
> 
> Well, who knows how much they're requiring per customer and your cable rates are going to go up anyway. Don't you want something for your money?



Absolutely. I want FXHD. USAHD. TBSHD. SCIFIHD


Big 10 Network is nowhere on my radar.


I understand everyone has different likes. I can't believe how many people want the Food Network in HD. It boggles my mind!


Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## jtscherne

What if Time Warner offered a new Dodgers HD channel? Would you want that??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11755627
> 
> 
> What if Time Warner offered a new Dodgers HD channel? Would you want that??



That's a loaded question right now, since they have been eliminated.










But seriously I would like to know why other subscribers to MLB Extra Innings have access to HD games and we don't.


----------



## jtscherne

Good question. I know on DirecTV they've really loaded up these last few weeks. Last night they had four HD games (although one of them was the Indians blacked out). It's very likely that with their HD expansion progressing, they may offer all available HD games every day next year.


Of course, I'd like to see STO go all HD too. If Yes and NESN can do it, so can STO.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11755679
> 
> 
> That's a loaded question right now, since they have been eliminated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously I would like to know why other subscribers to MLB Extra Innings have access to HD games and we don't.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11755523
> 
> 
> I can't believe how many people want the Food Network in HD. It boggles my mind!
> 
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.



Apparently you've never seen Everyday Italian with Giada De Laurentiis!







Food-HD is the channel I miss most since switching from E* to D*. From what I hear though, the wait won't be much longer as the next HD tidal wave is coming in October!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11756336
> 
> 
> Apparently you've never seen Everyday Italian with Giada De Laurentiis!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Food-HD is the channel I miss most since switching from E* to D*. From what I hear though, the wait won't be much longer as the next HD tidal wave is coming in October!



I wouldn't even THINK of tuning in the food channel. I'll take your word that it's entertaining, but at this time of year my SP is just about full (seaon pass) and I have 3 hours a night, maybe, to watch TV.


----------



## terryfoster

A more cooking science and food history show that I really enjoy is Good Eats. Here's the Wiki article opening:



> Quote:
> Good Eats is a television cooking show created and hosted by Alton Brown that airs in North America on Food Network. Likened to television science educators Mr. Wizard and Bill Nye, Brown explores the science and technique behind the cooking, the history of different foods, and the advantages of different kinds of cooking equipment. The show tends to focus on familiar dishes that can easily be made at home, and also features segments on choosing the right appliances, and getting the most out of inexpensive, multi-purpose tools. Each episode of Good Eats has a distinct theme, which is typically an ingredient or a certain cooking technique, but may also be a more general theme such as Thanksgiving, or "man food."



It's not what I would call your standard cooking show where they toss ingredients together. Alton explains why these ingredients work together with skits.


----------



## paule123

Watching Tailgate 19 this morning on WOIO - how do they manage to get that analog-ghosting-watching-with-tinfoil-on-rabbit-ears look on their DIGITAL channel ? The shots from the muni lot, inside Scorchers, and the prerecorded stuff all look terrible.


I hope the game doesn't look that bad.


----------



## MeowMeow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11737636
> 
> 
> 3.) Since WJW-DT will return to it's legacy ch 8 the signal should be excellent for everyone. Since there is no other ch 8 within 200 miles they will not suffer the same problems WOIO-Dt has with ch 10. I predict WJW-DT on 8 will rival WKBN-DT's coverage!



WWCP out of Johnstown, PA is aiming to go back to their legacy channel 8. There will spots at the deep fringe between them that experience trouble.


WJW will have a stronger transmitter, but WWCP has a height advantage.


----------



## Inundated

Ditto on that, Paul. It looked AWFUL here. It looks as bad as the last SD game did, so I don't expect the actual game to look any better.


Can we revoke WOIO's license for failure to perform?


----------



## paule123

Whoa - when NFL Today went to Rich Gannon at Cleveland Browns Stadium for the game preview he was in HD !! So the equipment is there and the game is being produced in HD ...


















... and at 12:55pm the NFL Today returns from commercial break in 4:3 SD and the game is in SD. Bleh.


----------



## paule123

The PQ on the Browns game is unbelievably TERRIBLE. I've never seen it this bad.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11771016
> 
> 
> The PQ on the Browns game is unbelievably TERRIBLE. I've never seen it this bad.



I've already shot my yearly b!tch-out email to the NFL and CBS. The NFL is the most popular sport in the country and we have to settle for this crap?!?!


----------



## Smarty-pants

During the first quarter, they finally did get the pic clearer/more in focus, but it still looks like a run-of-the-mill crappy SD pic.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/11771652
> 
> 
> I've already shot my yearly b!tch-out email to the NFL and CBS. The NFL is the most popular sport in the country and we have to settle for this crap?!?!



Looking at the game on an SD set and it seems that the video depth of modulation is a bit low compared to other channels. The program looks a little washed out.


Not trying to bash anybody here; I think this could be fixed with the twist of a screw and $0 capital outlay.


----------



## hookbill

At end of game they went to Raiders/Miami which is suppose to be in HD. Not for us though. I'll bet when the Pittsburgh game starts they won't throw the switch!


----------



## geocab

Where should we send an e-mail to CBS to voice our displeasure about this? Thanks!


----------



## HD MM

Congratulations goes out to the Central Division Champion; Cleveland Indians, as they close out their spectacular regular season and look forward to a promising entry into the upcoming MLB playoffs.


Here is a tentative TV schedule for the Tribe and the Yankees. Start times are to be determined, but an ideal eastern primetime schedule can be expected due to our media darling opponents; The New York Yankees. All first round games are expected to be available on TBS-HD.


Game 1: Yankees at Indians- Thurs., Oct. 4- TBS

Game 2: Yankees at Indians- Fri., Oct. 5- TBS

Game 3: Indians at Yankees- Sun., Oct. 7- TBS/TNT

Game 4: (if necessary) Indians at Yankees- Mon., Oct. 8- TBS

Game 5: (if necessary) Yankees at Indians- Wed., Oct. 10- TBS


For the rest of the MLB, please follow this link to view the rest of the postseason schedule.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Well, will TW implement TBS-HD into their line-up in the next couple days?

Hmmmm?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11773002
> 
> 
> Well, will TW implement TBS-HD into their line-up in the next couple days?
> 
> Hmmmm?



Probably because I'm going out of town.


----------



## jtscherne

I read at least one article out of New York that TWC had reached agreement to start TBS-HD starting tomorrow, but the article didn't indicate that it was nationwide.


----------



## paule123

Highlights of the Browns game were in HD on NBC's Football Night in America. So the game was produced in HD, despite what WOIO's little scrolling ticker said.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11774421
> 
> 
> Highlights of the Browns game were in HD on NBC's Football Night in America. So the game was produced in HD, despite what WOIO's little scrolling ticker said.



I don't believe so. For one thing it wasn't scheduled to be HD per CBS, and if you watched the graphics on the Pittsburgh game it constantly menitoned "HD" throughout the game.


----------



## drlava

I, too, have been dissappointed at the poor quaity of the browns football transmission. Are they not transmitting it in HD on purpose in the local area? All the away games are in HD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11774677
> 
> 
> I don't believe so. For one thing it wasn't scheduled to be HD per CBS, and if you watched the graphics on the Pittsburgh game it constantly menitoned "HD" throughout the game.



I know it wasn't scheduled to be HD per CBS. Apparently they can record the thing in HD for NBC's highlights later, but they don't have the capacity to broadcast it live in HD.


It's just irritating to see pregame in HD, the highlights in HD later in the night, but watch a horrible composite upconvert for the live game. They had all the HD equipment there, but couldn't provide a decent digital transmission for the SD broadcast. It's like they connected a million dollars worth of HD all digital equipment to a $19 Radio Shack RF modulator for analog broadcast to WOIO. And it looked like more than a few Browns fans pissed on the composite cable running through the sewer.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11774930
> 
> 
> I know it wasn't scheduled to be HD per CBS. Apparently they can record the thing in HD for NBC's highlights later, but they don't have the capacity to broadcast it live in HD.
> 
> 
> It's just irritating to see pregame in HD, the highlights in HD later in the night, but watch a horrible composite upconvert for the live game. They had all the HD equipment there, but couldn't provide a decent digital transmission for the SD broadcast. It's like they connected a million dollars worth of HD all digital equipment to a $19 Radio Shack RF modulator for analog broadcast to WOIO. And it looked like more than a few Browns fans pissed on the composite cable running through the sewer.



Funny thing is, I actually do have a $19 Radio Shack RF modulator hooked up to the tv in my kids playroom. Most of the time, the picture produced through that setup looks wayyyy better than the Browns game did







. Of course mine isn't running through the sewer though







.


----------



## paule123

WKYC Browns Tonight is showing a bunch of 480p widescreen coverage of the game. Looks like mostly sideline/ground level coverage. Looks like they do their own coverage and don't use the CBS video?


FWIW, ESPN SportsCenter had the Browns game highlights in that crappy composite SD video. So I guess they didn't pay as much as NBC Football Night in America who had the highlights in HD.


----------



## rick490

TBS HD was added this morning to our lineup in Northeast Ohio (TW).


----------



## Rbuchina

rich490

Where are you located? I am hoping TWC in Mentor has TBS HD by Thursday for the the Tribe/Yankee serieis. I am going to be at the first game but I have no tickets for any other games.

Ray


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/11776731
> 
> 
> TBS HD was added this morning to our lineup in Northeast Ohio (TW).



And which lineup is that? We're not seeing it here.


And since your login has no indication of where you live...


Please, folks, don't just say "TW has added it". TWC has at least three separate major systems in this region. "Here" for me is the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, and there's also the long-time Akron/Canton system that has a different lineup. And then, there's the ex-Comcast folks...


----------



## rick490

I live in New Philadelphia. Our system was acquired from Adelphia last year.


----------



## Ben Music

I'm out here in Lorain County which is a ex-Comcast system, and I found

TBS-HD this morning on ch-250.


Hope this helps,

Ben Music


----------



## HD MM

Hookbill, can you confirm a TBS-HD addition to TW's Eastside coverage area?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drlava* /forum/post/11774778
> 
> 
> I, too, have been dissappointed at the poor quaity of the browns football transmission. Are they not transmitting it in HD on purpose in the local area? All the away games are in HD.



Last week's Oakland game was not in HD. All AFC, except two, are broadcast in HD each week. Unfortunately, Browns are at the bottom of the ladder for national interest unless they are playing a team that generates a lot of interest (e.g., Patriots next week).


I've read that they still have some kind of capacity issue (amount of equipment or satellite, forget which) this year; but as of next year all NFL games will be available in HD.


----------



## AdamPS

I live in Stow (on the Akron channel lineup I believe), and I have 2 TWC boxes. One is the SA8300HD, and one is just a regular digital (non-HD) converter box. On my regular digital box, I am showing that I get TBS-HD on channel 546. However, on my SA8300HD, the channel does not appear on the guide and if I try to tune it in manually, I just get flashing question marks where it shows the channel being entered. I assume that they are just getting it up and running now, but I thought that was a little strange.


EDIT::: I just rebooted my HD box and now I am getting TBS-HD. Lucky for us, it is showing a movie in the same lovely stretch-o-vision as TNT-HD. Oh well, they can show whatever they want as long as we are getting the Indians playoff games in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

I think I know why WOIO has been making a big deal about games not in HD from CBS. I happened to listen to Tony Rizzo on WKNR and they were making a big deal about the Browns not being in HD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11778388
> 
> 
> I think I know why WOIO has been making a big deal about games not in HD from CBS. I happened to listen to Tony Rizzo on WKNR and they were making a big deal about the Browns not being in HD.



That and I'm sure WOIO receives a ton of calls each week complaing, especially since every other NFL game is broadcast in HD. (NBC, FOX, ESPN)......


I bet they can't wait till next season when CBS promises "all" games to be in HD. Now if they can start getting to work on Dolby Digital 5.1.......... but that's another thing.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Is anybody getting TBS-HD via TWC QAM (SE Side) by any chance? THAT would be awesome, otherwise I don't get to watch the Tribe...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11777579
> 
> 
> Last week's Oakland game was not in HD. All AFC, except two, are broadcast in HD each week. Unfortunately, Browns are at the bottom of the ladder for national interest unless they are playing a team that generates a lot of interest (e.g., Patriots next week).
> 
> 
> I've read that they still have some kind of capacity issue (amount of equipment or satellite, forget which) this year; but as of next year all NFL games will be available in HD.



Over in yesterday's CBS NFL thread it was explained that CBS doesn't have enough "master control rooms" to do more than 5 games in HD on a doubleheader day, and 6 games in HD on a non-doubleheader day.


Oh, and no TBS-HD here on WOW cable.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11779433
> 
> 
> Is anybody getting TBS-HD via TWC QAM (SE Side) by any chance? THAT would be awesome, otherwise I don't get to watch the Tribe...



I am in Canton and am not getting it via QAM. I was hoping for a long shot as well. However I do get TBS-SD via QAM, so that's better than having to go watch all the games elsewhere. I have no idea though if TBS-HD has even made it's way into the TW system here at all yet.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hey guys, for those of you who do have TBS-HD... Padres vs. Rockies is on tonight. There can be only one!


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11779566
> 
> 
> I am in Canton and am not getting it via QAM. I was hoping for a long shot as well. However I do get TBS-SD via QAM...



What tier are you subscribed to? Lifeline or Extended Basic or ...?


----------



## dleising

I saw TBS-HD this morning on channel 546 on TWC (near Kent). It was also on 560 I beleive. When I tuned into it, it looked like it was an SD upconvert. Maybe it was just the programming, a movie was on I think. They may have been still implementing it, because there shouldnt be 2 channels that say "TBS-HD".


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11779566
> 
> 
> I am in Canton and am not getting it via QAM. I was hoping for a long shot as well. However I do get TBS-SD via QAM, so that's better than having to go watch all the games elsewhere. I have no idea though if TBS-HD has even made it's way into the TW system here at all yet.



Well you are a step above me if you are getting tbs via QAM. I have lifeline so I do not get tbs period.


----------



## kramerboy

I haven't been home to check Ch 43.2 (The Tube). But this is now posted on their website at http://www.thetubetv.com/ :

*Dear friend of THE TUBE Music Network,


We regret to inform you of the fate that has befallen The Tube Music Network. October 1, 2007 The Tube ceased its national broadcast.


Viewers, Artists, Music Companies, Investors, Business Partners, TV stations, Cable companies, Advertisers , Friends and our creative partners @Radical Media - your support of The Tube has always been highly valued and appreciated. The collective efforts of this team, fueled by the letters we received from viewers, sustained THE TUBE as it struggled through the financial limitations that ultimately contributed to its incapacitated state.


Thank you for inviting The Tube Music Network into your life.


Sincerely,


The Tube Music Network staff*



I actually watched The Tube quite a bit. It was nice to have this on as background music while doing other things. They had a nice mix of older/newer stuff.......


I wonder what WUAB will put on in its place?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/11781175
> 
> 
> I haven't been home to check Ch 43.2 (The Tube). But this is now posted on their website at http://www.thetubetv.com/ :
> 
> *Dear friend of THE TUBE Music Network,
> 
> 
> We regret to inform you of the fate that has befallen The Tube Music Network. October 1, 2007 The Tube ceased its national broadcast.
> 
> 
> Viewers, Artists, Music Companies, Investors, Business Partners, TV stations, Cable companies, Advertisers , Friends and our creative partners @Radical Media - your support of The Tube has always been highly valued and appreciated. The collective efforts of this team, fueled by the letters we received from viewers, sustained THE TUBE as it struggled through the financial limitations that ultimately contributed to its incapacitated state.
> 
> 
> Thank you for inviting The Tube Music Network into your life.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> The Tube Music Network staff*
> 
> 
> 
> I actually watched The Tube quite a bit. It was nice to have this on as background music while doing other things. They had a nice mix of older/newer stuff.......
> 
> 
> I wonder what WUAB will put on in its place?




Yes. There is a message on the screen when you tune to the channel where The Tube was on. Noticed it this morning.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/11781175
> 
> 
> I haven't been home to check Ch 43.2 (The Tube). But this is now posted on their website at http://www.thetubetv.com/ :
> 
> *Dear friend of THE TUBE Music Network,
> 
> 
> We regret to inform you of the fate that has befallen The Tube Music Network. October 1, 2007 The Tube ceased its national broadcast.
> 
> 
> Viewers, Artists, Music Companies, Investors, Business Partners, TV stations, Cable companies, Advertisers , Friends and our creative partners @Radical Media - your support of The Tube has always been highly valued and appreciated. The collective efforts of this team, fueled by the letters we received from viewers, sustained THE TUBE as it struggled through the financial limitations that ultimately contributed to its incapacitated state.
> 
> 
> Thank you for inviting The Tube Music Network into your life.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> The Tube Music Network staff*
> 
> 
> 
> I actually watched The Tube quite a bit. It was nice to have this on as background music while doing other things. They had a nice mix of older/newer stuff.......
> 
> 
> I wonder what WUAB will put on in its place?




Did they really think this was going to work? For the first few months (or hell maybe it was a year), the poor thing had almost no bandwidth allocated to it and the picture was completely unwatchable. Not to mention about .001 percent of the Cleveland population had OTA DTV tuners.


As far as background music, there's like 30 channels of Music Choice most people get with their cable. D* has XM Radio included in their midlevel packages. D* is about to launch MHD, MTV HD, etc. Plenty of way better options for music, than "The Tube"


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11781425
> 
> 
> As far as background music, there's like 30 channels of Music Choice most people get with their cable. D* has XM Radio included in their midlevel packages. D* is about to launch MHD, MTV HD, etc. Plenty of way better options for music, than "The Tube"



I'll agree with you on XM/Music Choice/Sirius, but MHD and MTV HD? They don't play music let alone a variety










Sure the picture wasn't that great, but they did have a very wide selection of music which was nice.


----------



## orange5814

I just sent an email to local TWC folks, inquiring as to the status of more HD programming. I am in Aurora, which was formerly Adelphia. It will be interesting to see their reply. I will post any news that I recieve...


----------



## paule123

Game times for the Indians/Yankees ALDS have been announced:


Game 1 October 4 HOME GAME 1 JACOBS FIELD TBS 6:30PM

LHP C.C. Sabathia vs. RHP Chien-Ming Wang


Game 2 October 5 HOME GAME 2 JACOBS FIELD TBS 5:00PM

RHP Fausto Carmona vs. LHP Andy Pettitte


Game 3 October 7 YANKEE STADIUM TBS 6:30PM

RHP Jake Westbrook vs. TBD


*Game 4 October 8 YANKEE STADIUM TBS 6:00PM

RHP Paul Byrd vs. TBD


*Game 5 October 10 HOME GAME 3 JACOBS FIELD TBS 5:00PM

LHP C.C. Sabathia vs. TBD *if necessary


----------



## Ben Music

It's seems to me that this would be the perfect time for TWC to add

WBNX-HD, to replace the Tube spot. We should start some kind of

petition or e-mail blitz to get them moving on this.


Ben Music


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11770401
> 
> 
> Watching Tailgate 19 this morning on WOIO - how do they manage to get that analog-ghosting-watching-with-tinfoil-on-rabbit-ears look on their DIGITAL channel ? The shots from the muni lot, inside Scorchers, and the prerecorded stuff all look terrible.
> 
> 
> I hope the game doesn't look that bad.



I believe the ghosting you see is from their remote truck link back to the station. That equipment is still analog so ghosting is possible. I see the same thing all the time on WEWS news during live shots, especially ones that originate downtown (when reporters stand outside the Justice Center). They use an analog microwave signal that is prone to multipath from all the tall buildings.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/11782263
> 
> 
> It's seems to me that this would be the perfect time for TWC to add
> 
> WBNX-HD, to replace the Tube spot. We should start some kind of
> 
> petition or e-mail blitz to get them moving on this.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Heh, it's sad that we have to beg for one more HD channel. TWC and WOW will need to add about 40 HD channels by year's end, or DirecTV (and U-Verse) is going to eat both of them for lunch.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11782384
> 
> 
> Heh, it's sad that we have to beg for one more HD channel.



Huh? You just GOT another HD channel... WTBS-HD. And without even asking, much less begging!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/11783221
> 
> 
> Huh? You just GOT another HD channel... WTBS-HD. And without even asking, much less begging!



No TBS-HD on WOW cable yet.


----------



## jtscherne

Much of TBS's current programming is old sitcoms that haven't been converted to HD, so you're going to see a lot of upconverting. During the weekend they were showing some movies that were in HD...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/11780340
> 
> 
> I saw TBS-HD this morning on channel 546 on TWC (near Kent). It was also on 560 I beleive. When I tuned into it, it looked like it was an SD upconvert. Maybe it was just the programming, a movie was on I think. They may have been still implementing it, because there shouldnt be 2 channels that say "TBS-HD".


----------



## Inundated

TBS-HD is on, with the NL Wildcard One Game Playoff, on TWC Cleveland 778.


----------



## HD MM

 Post #9752 was updated to add TBS-HD to TW's HD list.


TW is now matching WoW! with 21 HD offerings.


As of now, locally, the only options in seeing the first round of the MLB Playoffs on TBS-HD would be through providers D* or TW.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Quick Browns Update:

At NE 10/7, Vs. Mia 10/14, at Pitt 11/11 confirmed HD Broadcasts.

Probable HD: Seattle on 11/4.


Finally some HD love.


Go tribe!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ParsonsBri* /forum/post/11788497
> 
> 
> Quick Browns Update:
> 
> At NE 10/7, Vs. Mia 10/14, at Pitt 11/11 confirmed HD Broadcasts.
> 
> Probable HD: Seattle on 11/4.
> 
> 
> Finally some HD love.
> 
> 
> Go tribe!



Where did you hear that? Link?


I already posted the CBS-HD games through week 7 and the only Brown's game confirmed to be in HD was this week's (Week 5) game at NE. Week 6 against Miami was designated as a SD game and Week 7 is a bye.


See link here:



http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl


----------



## jtscherne

Seattle is a Fox game, so is likely to be in HD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11788788
> 
> 
> Seattle is a Fox game, so is likely to be in HD.



Yeah, it's a given all NFC games will be on Fox and subsequently in HD, but he said the Miami game on 10/14 and Pitt game on 11/11 was to be in HD. That's the part that I'm unsure of.......


----------



## HD MM

Did any of you happen to watch College Football on ABC last Saturday? Anyone continue to notice the ever growing problem with ABC's HD feed?.....


The problem that I'm referring to is the stuttering of the HD cameras. It almost seems as if the cameras can't keep up with the action or something as the picture doesn't flow smooth and instead sputters through motion. If you haven't seen this, it is really indescribable. I find this very annoying and as a result try to avoid College Football on ABC-HD because of this.


I posed this question to a viewer on the west-cost and he didn't see the same flaw. Is it possible that this is a local issue?


For the record I am viewing ABC-HD through D*'s HR20. I have also noticed this when I used to be an E* sub, running the OTA through my ViP622.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11789570
> 
> 
> Did any of you happen to watch College Football on ABC last Saturday? Anyone continue to notice the ever growing problem with ABC's HD feed?.....
> 
> 
> The problem that I'm referring to is the stuttering of the HD cameras. It almost seems as if the cameras can't keep up with the action or something as the picture doesn't flow smooth and instead sputters through motion. If you haven't seen this, it is really indescribable. I find this very annoying and as a result try to avoid College Football on ABC-HD because of this.
> 
> 
> I posed this question to a viewer on the west-cost and he didn't see the same flaw. Is it possible that this is a local issue?
> 
> 
> For the record I am viewing ABC-HD through D*'s HR20. I have also noticed this when I used to be an E* sub, running the OTA through my ViP622.



I remember seeing that last week during a football game. Can't remember if it was Sat or Sun or which game. The pic looked good until there was fast motion then the pic would get blurry during the motion. I'm watching on TW in Canton.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11788738
> 
> 
> Where did you hear that? Link?
> 
> 
> I already posted the CBS-HD games through week 7 and the only Brown's game confirmed to be in HD was this week's (Week 5) game at NE. Week 6 against Miami was designated as a SD game and Week 7 is a bye.
> 
> 
> See link here:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl



Hmmm.


Seems to be a conflict between CBS and HDSports Guide. According to HDSports Guide, the Oct. 14th game is to be in HD. CBS still hasn't declared it an HD game though.


See link here:

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11788977
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's a given all NFC games will be on Fox and subsequently in HD, but he said the Miami game on 10/14 and Pitt game on 11/11 was to be in HD. That's the part that I'm unsure of.......



not all fox games are in HD


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/11790217
> 
> 
> not all fox games are in HD



I've read somewhere that all anti-conference games (ie. NFC vs. AFC) will be on Fox and subsequently in HD. I can't remember seeing a non-HD NFL game in quite some time.......


----------



## Speedskater

I wonder if Cox-Cleveland will show the Indians play-off games in HD on one of their unused HD channels? (STO & FoxHD)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11790449
> 
> 
> I've read somewhere that all anti-conference games (ie. NFC vs. AFC) will be on Fox and subsequently in HD. I can't remember seeing a non-HD NFL game in quite some time.......



re: "anti-conference" games

What governs which network carries inter-conference games is the *AWAY TEAM's network*. i.e if an NFC team plays the Browns in Cleveland it will be carried by FOX, OTOH if the Browns travel to an NFC team's stadium that game will be on CBS.


So the statement "all anti-conference games will be on FOX" is not a true statement. When the Browns play the Giants is that an away game? If so it will be on CBS.


----------



## dunner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/11790473
> 
> 
> I wonder if Cox-Cleveland will show the Indians play-off games in HD on one of their unused HD channels? (STO & FoxHD)



I'd called and asked one of their CSR's. She said they hadn't received any information on it. Which, of course, really could mean anything.


----------



## HD MM

For those of you who live on the east-side and don't have access to the Tribe games in HD, The Boneyard in Mayfield Hts is a great place to watch a game. Not to mention they have 7 huge projection screens with the main one being over 20' diagonal! They have a D* feed to all of the HD projectors, so TBS-HD and the Tribe will surely be shown......


----------



## Neruda7

For those of you who care, I posted a week or two back concerning a problem with my local OTA HD stations via Dish Network's VIP622 (my antenna was plugged into the back of the unit and suddenly stopped finding all local HD content after nine months of working fine). The helpful people who use this forum gave a couple of great suggestions. It turned out that the ATSC tuner in my VIP622 was broke.


Here's where the story gets interesting (at least to me): After spending an hour and half on the phone with Dish Networks' "customer service," I was finally able to get a new VIP622 sent to me free of charge. But at first they claimed the problem was OTA and they had no responsibility to send me a new receiver (this was after I explained that I had bought a new antenna and was having the same problem with the new antenna). I asked them why they have an input on the back of THEIR receiver that says, "Local OTA Antenna" if they didn't take any responsibility for OTA problems with their receiver. They couldn't quite answer that, but instead tried to convince me that I was doing something wrong. I told them several times that when I plugged the antenna into the TV, it worked fine. As soon as it was plugged into the VIP receiver it did not work.


Finally, about an hour into the call, they said that they would send me a new receiver but that I would have to pay the shipping since the 3 month (!) warranty had expired. First off, what the...? A 3 month warranty??? How can you call 3 months a warranty? Its more like a return policy. Anyway, of course they only offered overnight or two day delivery so I would have to pay a minimum of $15 for this "convenience." I told them to ship it UPS Ground and the supervisor I was speaking to managed to say (without laughting) that their shipping department couldn't ship UPS Ground only two-day or overnight. Well, I flatly refused to pay for anything since the VIP receiver had only lasted 9 months. After another half-hour of negotiating, I finally convinced the third person I spoke with that loosing a $1000 per year customer wasn't worth the $15 charge they were trying to make me pay for shipping.


Sorry, I just needed to vent and get that off my chest. Unbelievable that these companies can stay in business with customer service like that.


In conclusion, I wanted to thank those on this forum that pointed a newbie in the right direction. It was much appreciated. I am now able to get local HD stations once again through my VIP622 receiver.


Regards,

Scott


----------



## Neruda7

Also, I spoke with a Dish Network represenative that indicated that they had no plans to offer TBS for the Major League Baseball Division Series...



Regards,

Scott


----------



## Michael P 2341

I've been a Dish Network customer for 10 years. My current receiver is the buggy old DVR921. It had a 1 year warranty, however the tech dept. never hesitated in extending the warranty. I'm on my 10th 921 and there is still problems. I believe it's the current software version. The software version that was in use last year (L278) worked great. Ten the change in the start date for Daylight Savings Time happened so new software (L330) was pushed to the receiver. Some customers had new bugs so tey quickly rolled out L331. Some still had problems so one more time they did a quick change to the current L332. Now this is when my problems began. L332 is still the current s/w version and I have to do reboots every day (sometimes the 921 reboots itself). I had several replacements all with L332. Every one of them started experiencing the same bugs within 24-48 hours after installation.


I don't want the 622 or 722 yet because I do not yet have an HD set to hook it to, the newest MPEG4 receivers come with a $6 "HD enabling fee" for anyone not subbing to the HD channels (why should I my TV is SD). I got the 921 to "future proof" my set-up. Silly me. At the time the 921 came out there were knowledgeable posters on the DBS sites who said MPEG 4 would not work in real time. I drank that kool aid







now I'm stuck with an obsolete, buggy box.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/11783221
> 
> 
> Huh? You just GOT another HD channel... WTBS-HD. And without even asking, much less begging!



Yet they still can't be bothered to add the local CW station (WBNX-HD) that other carriers have had for months...


----------



## hookbill

Dissapointing news, guys. I'm in L.A. right now and I watched the game between San Diego and Colorado on TW and it was in HD!


I was hoping to see everyone say that TW had not only added TBS but a few more stations.


Playoffs begin tomorrow. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope you guys give me some good news.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11797412
> 
> 
> Dissapointing news, guys. I'm in L.A. right now and I watched the game between San Diego and Colorado on TW and it was in HD!
> 
> 
> I was hoping to see everyone say that TW had not only added TBS but a few more stations.
> 
> 
> Playoffs begin tomorrow. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope you guys give me some good news.



I don't know about other stations, but it has been confirmed by several posters including Inundated in this post that TW added TBS-HD in the Cleveland market. So at least you can take solace in being with 1 of the 2 providers in our market that actually carries TBS-HD, with the other being D*.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11790449
> 
> 
> I've read somewhere that all anti-conference games (ie. NFC vs. AFC) will be on Fox and subsequently in HD. I can't remember seeing a non-HD NFL game in quite some time.......



Fox carries NFC away games, CBS carries AFC away games. So the only 2 games the Browns will have on Fox will be when an NFC team plays in Cleveland.


But I'll say it again, not all Fox games are in HD.


----------



## HD MM

Well folks, D* has done it again. For the following Wednesday in a row, subs woke up to 11 new HD channels. Of these additions, 5 are RSN's and 3 are Premiums.


1. Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Channel 640)

2. Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD (Channel 629)

3. New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)

4. SportsNet New York HD (Channel 625)

5. YES HD (Channel 622)

6. Cinemax East (Channel 512)

7. Cinemax West (Channel 514)

8. HBO West (Channel 504)

9. Bravo (Channel 273)

10. SciFi Channel (Channel 244)

11. USA Network (Channel 242)


Even more HD channels are expected later this month. According to the D* website, the following are still to be added later this month:


Cartoon-HD

CNBC- HD

Food- HD

Fox Business- HD

Fuel- HD

FX- HD

HGTV- HD

MGM- HD

MHD

NBA- HD

NGC- HD

Speed- HD


Also, with these additions,
post# 9752 was amended to add these HD additions.


----------



## rmanderson26

I was flipping through channels last night and noticed TBS HD was on channel 778 and a channel in the 600s. Is this happening to any one else. BTW I live in Bedford, OH, an old Adelphia system.


----------



## jtscherne

I know you can't add it to the list yet, but they also tested Food HD last night. Unfortunately, it didn't arrive this morning.


Just wanted to keep hookbill updated.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11798852
> 
> 
> Well folks, D* has done it again. For the following Wednesday in a row, subs woke up to 11 new HD channels. Of these additions, 5 are RSN's and 3 are Premiums.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmanderson26* /forum/post/11799208
> 
> 
> I was flipping through channels last night and noticed TBS HD was on channel 778 and a channel in the 600s. Is this happening to any one else. BTW I live in Bedford, OH, an old Adelphia system.



I checked last night and it is up in Solon....


Now, if I could only stay in town long enough to watch it!


----------



## HD MM

Great faux quote in the sports pickle.... 


Game not played in high-def


Sunday's Browns-Ravens game disappointed many fans of both teams when CBS did not broadcast it in high-definition, but the network claims an HD broadcast was not possible because the game was not played in high-def.


I knew something seemed a little off, said Ravens quarterback Steve McNair. I thought maybe I had a problem with my eyes, but I didn't want to mention it to anyone because they already think I'm a bit of a hypochondriac.


Browns coach Romeo Crennel says it was fitting Cleveland's upset win was fuzzy. When I saw what was happening on the field, I thought someone had spiked my pre-game milkshake. I thought I was drunk, said Crennel. But then I realized the game wasn't in high-def. Except for Brady Quinn, of course. He always looks perfect.


----------



## Tom in OH

Received the new 5lnb dish and 2 HR20-100s yesterday. The ota tuner is more sensitive/stronger for UHF signals than any previous HD receiver. The bad news is neither HR20 can lock-on to 3-1 or 3-2 as seen by others. WOIO(19-1, 19-2) are fine but not WKYC. Hopefully this is something they can fix with an update.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmanderson26* /forum/post/11799208
> 
> 
> I was flipping through channels last night and noticed TBS HD was on channel 778 and a channel in the 600s. Is this happening to any one else. BTW I live in Bedford, OH, an old Adelphia system.



I thought TWC was supposed to be adding a bunch of new HD channels on October 1. Besides WTBS-HD, has anyone noticed any new HD offerings in the Akron/Canton area ? Any available via QAM ?


----------



## rmanderson26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/11802969
> 
> 
> I thought TWC was supposed to be adding a bunch of new HD channels on October 1. Besides WTBS-HD, has anyone noticed any new HD offerings in the Akron/Canton area ? Any available via QAM ?



According to this article the rest will be added on the 15th

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24...ls-in-october/


----------



## orange5814

This is the e-mail reply that I recieved from TWC today about adding more HD channels:


Dear Mr. Barr:

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.

Thank you for contacting our office regarding HDTV networks. We do anticipate in the future, when a larger group of programmers and a wider scale of programming options are available in the HDTV format, that Time Warner will be offering more HD service. Time Warner Cable would like to provide all of the HDTV signals available. We are currently negotiating with several networks and hope to have an agreement in the very near future. This HD programming is being positioned as pay programming and Time Warner Cable wants to make sure that we negotiate the best possible rate for those of our customers who want to subscribe to this. We are however, hopeful that an agreement will be reached soon. We hope to carry these new and exciting channels soon and in the meantime we hope you will enjoy all the cutting edge services such as I Control that we already offer. Should you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact our office.

I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.

Sincerely,

Aaron

Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

tbs now in HD on cox cable, channel 716.


----------



## ted_b

WOW sucks. TBS SD is an ok SD picture, but c'mon!!


----------



## Inundated

I'm also seeing TBSHD on 600, in addition to 778. Is this a mirror of some sort? It didn't seem to affect the picture at all when "changing channels" to 600. Not even a hiccup. There's also a blank "TW609" channel in the guide at channel 609.


No other HD added. But boy, that "Tube" message looks clear on 720!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/11805693
> 
> 
> WOW sucks. TBS SD is an ok SD picture, but c'mon!!



I love WOW for the great customer service and the great HD PQ that they have, but my trigger finger is ever closer to giving all my business to D*. I don't see how the cable companies can accomodate this fire hose of new HD channels without going to SDV or ditching the analogs.


----------



## jtscherne

One more added this morning:


MHD (MTV HD) at Channel 332




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11798852
> 
> 
> Well folks, D* has done it again. For the following Wednesday in a row, subs woke up to 11 new HD channels. Of these additions, 5 are RSN's and 3 are Premiums.
> 
> 
> 1. Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Channel 640)
> 
> 2. Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD (Channel 629)
> 
> 3. New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)
> 
> 4. SportsNet New York HD (Channel 625)
> 
> 5. YES HD (Channel 622)
> 
> 6. Cinemax East (Channel 512)
> 
> 7. Cinemax West (Channel 514)
> 
> 8. HBO West (Channel 504)
> 
> 9. Bravo (Channel 273)
> 
> 10. SciFi Channel (Channel 244)
> 
> 11. USA Network (Channel 242)


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11809763
> 
> 
> One more added this morning:
> 
> 
> MHD (MTV HD) at Channel 332



Actually, it's not a "ghost" of MTV. They have their own programming. Picture is great on some of it. I'm not into music channels; but this looks very nice and the sound is excellent. I've scheduled recording of a 6:30 joint performance by Reba and Kelly Clarkson.


Talking about that timeslot; luckily, D* also added TBSHD last week. So, we get the Indians in HD tonight.


One further subject. I added an e-SATA drive (750 Gig) to my HR20 last week. Cost less than $200 and works great. Will hold over 100 hours of MPEG4 HD.


----------



## jtscherne

I set up the Bruce Springsteen and Dixie Chicks Storytellers shows today.


I haven't even tried to add an extra drive yet. I barely have time to watch what I'm already recording!


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/11805274
> 
> 
> This is the e-mail reply that I recieved from TWC today about adding more HD channels:
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Barr:
> 
> Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
> 
> Thank you for contacting our office regarding HDTV networks. We do anticipate in the future, when a larger group of programmers and a wider scale of programming options are available in the HDTV format, that Time Warner will be offering more HD service. Time Warner Cable would like to provide all of the HDTV signals available. We are currently negotiating with several networks and hope to have an agreement in the very near future. This HD programming is being positioned as pay programming and Time Warner Cable wants to make sure that we negotiate the best possible rate for those of our customers who want to subscribe to this. We are however, hopeful that an agreement will be reached soon. We hope to carry these new and exciting channels soon and in the meantime we hope you will enjoy all the cutting edge services such as I Control that we already offer. Should you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact our office.
> 
> I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Aaron
> 
> Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative




My guess is that this is a canned response and probably has nothing to do with the new HD channels that are supposed to be arriving in the next two weeks (on the 15th). It actually sounds like a response given to a friend in regards to a Big-Ten HD network inquiry. The issue with that contract is that TW wanted to make it a pay channel and Big Ten said their network could not be a single pay channel. TW asked them to lower the price in that case but Big Ten would not do so. I'm guessing they were ok with it being included in the $5 HD package (or whatever it is they charge for the HD tier now) but TW wanted it to be an extra charge outside of that tier.


Anyway, this is just a guess about this e-mail but I sure hope I'm right. It doesn't make any sense in the context of the 5 new HD channels to say "when a larger group of programmers and a wider scale of programming options are available in the HDTV format". It does makes sense if they are talking about just the Big Ten network but 5 channels added would definitely be a larger group of programmers offering HD content.


I guess we'll see!! Keep yer fingers crossed!


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11800667
> 
> 
> Great faux quote in the sports pickle....
> 
> 
> Game not played in high-def
> 
> 
> Sunday's Browns-Ravens game disappointed many fans of both teams when CBS did not broadcast it in high-definition, but the network claims an HD broadcast was not possible because the game was not played in high-def.
> 
> 
> I knew something seemed a little off, said Ravens quarterback Steve McNair. I thought maybe I had a problem with my eyes, but I didn't want to mention it to anyone because they already think I'm a bit of a hypochondriac.
> 
> 
> Browns coach Romeo Crennel says it was fitting Cleveland's upset win was fuzzy. When I saw what was happening on the field, I thought someone had spiked my pre-game milkshake. I thought I was drunk, said Crennel. But then I realized the game wasn't in high-def. Except for Brady Quinn, of course. He always looks perfect.



I hope this doesn't happen to the Indians, I've got tickets for tonight's game. They are playing the Yankees, so it should be OK...


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/11810608
> 
> 
> ....the new HD channels that are supposed to be arriving in the next two weeks (on the 15th)....



Do we know what the new channels are yet?



Thanks.


----------



## Dweezilz

TBS HD, The History Channel HD, CNN HD, Lifetime Movies HD, and Food Network HD. TBS-HD was scheduled to arrive Oct. 1st and it did. Let's hope the rest arrive on the 15th as reported.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/11811951
> 
> 
> TBS-HD was scheduled to arrive Oct. 1st and it did.



Unfortunately, the channel is showing SD programs in "sports-bar" (i.e., stretched) mode, which is an atrocity whose only possible purpose is to fill every available pixel of a 16:9 screen, even if the image looks bizarre.


The TBS-HD problem isn't TWC's fault--but what about the so-called HD version of WUAB, which has yet to show a hi-rez program?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11809763
> 
> 
> One more added this morning:
> 
> 
> MHD (MTV HD) at Channel 332



Thanks,

HD List Updated


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/11812058
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the channel is showing SD programs in "sports-bar" (i.e., stretched) mode, which is an atrocity whose only possible purpose is to fill every available pixel of a 16:9 screen, even if the image looks bizarre.
> 
> 
> The TBS-HD problem isn't TWC's fault--but what about the so-called HD version of WUAB, which has yet to show a hi-rez program?



Yeah I noticed most of their programming looks stretched and pretty bad. The baseball game last night however looked very good I thought even on my 106" screen....and really...that's all I care about as far as this channel goes. The Tribe game will look good. If they show nice HD sporting events I'm fine with it. We'll have to see if any of their other content is worth watching or not.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/11812058
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the channel is showing SD programs in "sports-bar" (i.e., stretched) mode, which is an atrocity whose only possible purpose is to fill every available pixel of a 16:9 screen, even if the image looks bizarre.
> 
> 
> The TBS-HD problem isn't TWC's fault--but what about the so-called HD version of WUAB, which has yet to show a hi-rez program?



It's worse than that. If they just stretched it, my TV could squeeze it again. They actually stretch the sides more than the center, and there is no way to correct that.


Why don't they just leave the aspect ratio alone, and let people stretch it on their own TV if they want?


----------



## lefkas

Is anyone getting WTBS-HD on QAM fromTime Warner Cable ? The regular digital feed of WTBS is available on QAM but the HD version is probably scrambled I'm guessing.


----------



## Rambozo

Where are you, and what TWC channel are you getting it on via QAM?


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/11814115
> 
> 
> Where are you, and what TWC channel are you getting it on via QAM?



Canton and I think it comes in on 94-31.


----------



## LesMan1

Does anyone know for sure???


Watching the TRIBE beat the YANKS on Channel 20 is less than satisfying.

Dying to get the HD Feed...


Thanks!!


----------



## Smarty-pants

TRIBE _SPANKS_ the bombers !!! Loved every minute of it!


Now I hated watching that stupid scrolling add across the bottom of the screen on TBS-SD. Laughable that in the same phrase it says that TW is the home of FREE HD, but of course you have to PAY for their expensive expanded monthly service AND pay for thier HD cable box to get the FREE TBS-HD.


----------



## paule123

I was in the Club Lounge at the Jake tonight and noticed TBS was 16:9 but sure didn't look HD on the plasmas in there. Looked like 480p widescreen, I could see interlacing artifacts. They were playing the WTAM audio instead of TBS audio. Anybody know what was the deal on that?


Any opinions on D* MPEG4 TBS-HD PQ vs. STO ?


I say STO wins... This Cubs/DBacks game looks a bit soft on 247.


Oh, and by the way my daily playoffs reminder -- WIDE OPEN WEST DOES NOT HAVE TBS-HD.


----------



## Too_Many_options

TW feed of the game on TBS HD was very good quality


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11818707
> 
> 
> I was in the Club Lounge at the Jake tonight and noticed TBS was 16:9 but sure didn't look HD on the plasmas in there. Looked like 480p widescreen, I could see interlacing artifacts. They were playing the WTAM audio instead of TBS audio. Anybody know what was the deal on that?
> 
> 
> Any opinions on D* MPEG4 TBS-HD PQ vs. STO ?
> 
> 
> I say STO wins... This Cubs/DBacks game looks a bit soft on 247.
> 
> 
> Oh, and by the way my daily playoffs reminder -- WIDE OPEN WEST DOES NOT HAVE TBS-HD.



I thought the game on TBS-HD looked excellent. No noticeable artifacts. The only thing that annoyed me was the constant plugs for "Frank TV".


Viewed on a 92" screen through a 720p projector via D* MPEG 4 feed.


Go Tribe!


----------



## JJkizak

Real dumb question. Why no Tribe game OTA? I had to turn on the radio, one of those old timer things.

JJK


----------



## Rbuchina

I was at the game too. Me and three friends got in on a luxury suite with a larger group of fans. It was great except for the fact that some Yankee fans from NY were two suites over. We had fun with them all game but they took it in stride and still think NY has a chance. Ignorance is bliss.


I belive the feed at Jacobs field is a closed circuit production for Luxury suites, Club seats, and conssesion stands. They probably do not yet have the capability to produce in HD.


Ray


----------



## jtscherne

Not the first time. ESPN used to have rights to playoff games and they weren't shown OTA either. This is the first time that NONE of the first round games haven't been shown OTA though (Fox used to show first round games).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/11820152
> 
> 
> Real dumb question. Why no Tribe game OTA? I had to turn on the radio, one of those old timer things.
> 
> JJK


----------



## Rbuchina

Real dumb question. Why no Tribe game OTA? I had to turn on the radio, one of those old timer things.

JJK


I was wondering if a local would pick it up or not off the air too. I seem to remember football games being picked up locally when the Borwns were on ESPN years ago. Perhaps they feel a large enough number of homes have cable or satallite its not worth it.


Ray


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11818707
> 
> 
> I was in the Club Lounge at the Jake tonight and noticed TBS was 16:9 but sure didn't look HD on the plasmas in there. Looked like 480p widescreen, I could see interlacing artifacts. They were playing the WTAM audio instead of TBS audio. Anybody know what was the deal on that?
> 
> 
> Any opinions on D* MPEG4 TBS-HD PQ vs. STO ?
> 
> 
> I say STO wins... This Cubs/DBacks game looks a bit soft on 247.
> 
> 
> Oh, and by the way my daily playoffs reminder -- WIDE OPEN WEST DOES NOT HAVE TBS-HD.



Hard to say what feed they were using or what the display was doing. It's possible they weren't feeding 1080i or that the signal was getting distributed too far and too much. My TBS-HD on TW looked every bit as good as STO...if not better. I found it to be razor sharp, colorful and I saw no interlacing artifacts. Looked great on a 51" Sony CRT based TV, 106" screen w/720p LCD projector, and 37" 1080p LCD.







Thought the same of the Cubs/DBack game as well, although I will say the feed did look slightly softer than that tribe game yet still looked excellent. So many factors that could come into play with that one as well.


----------



## rick490

I have a question. My cable system was an ex-Adelphia system acquired last year by TWC. We have recently been upgraded to the SDV and have acquired some new HD channels, (CBS-HD, Fox-HD, ESPN2, On-Demand, etc). We do not yet receive Fox Sports HD or Sports Time Ohio-HD). Does the rest of TWC NEO receive them?


Thanks


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/11821073
> 
> 
> My cable system was an ex-Adelphia system acquired last year by TWC. We have recently been upgraded to the SDV and have acquired some new HD channels, (CBS-HD, Fox-HD, ESPN2, On-Demand, etc).



HD MM has done a great job putting the current HD list together for our local providers. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9752 


This is the first I have heard of SDV in our area. As a TiVo user, I have been dreading this news. Can anyone who uses a TiVo Series3/HD or other CableCard device chime in on whether or not you can tune into TBSHD on TWC?


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/11821073
> 
> 
> I have a question. My cable system was an ex-Adelphia system acquired last year by TWC. We have recently been upgraded to the SDV and have acquired some new HD channels, (CBS-HD, Fox-HD, ESPN2, On-Demand, etc). We do not yet receive Fox Sports HD or Sports Time Ohio-HD). Does the rest of TWC NEO receive them?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Yeah, I'm TWC NEO and we get STO-HD. We don't get Fox Sports HD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/11821397
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm TWC NEO and we get STO-HD. We don't get Fox Sports HD.



That is contradicting other reports. Apparently in some TW markets, FSN-OH HD shares channel 798 with STO-HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9786


----------



## Dweezilz

When I turn to 798, I either see a blue screen that says when the next 'special' event will be (usually a Cavs or Indians game) or I see a Cavs or Indians game. I guess it's just considered a special sports event HD channel and I forgot that the Cavs broadcast is technically Fox Sport HD and Tribe games are STO. STO does have some additional programming from time to time after the Indians games such as 'All Bets Are Off' with Bruce Drennan, but I don't recall seeing much Fox Sports HD programming outside of the Cavs. Maybe they had a Bluejackets game too but I can't recall. So it's not like it's Fox for a certain percentage and STO for another...they just show the games on 798 for the Cavs and Indians via their respective networks.


Rick's initial question seemed like he was asking if there were two separate channels so that's where my thought was on only getting STO. I guess if it was Cavs season I would have said we only get Fox HD and not STO. ha!







For sure it's not two separate channels, so in reality, the question is, do we get that one channel and the answer is yes.


----------



## rick490

Thanks. My main reason asking was I'm interested in Cavs Hd and Indians Hd. A shared channel would work just fine.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/11820160
> 
> 
> I was at the game too. Me and three friends got in on a luxury suite with a larger group of fans. It was great except for the fact that some Yankee fans from NY were two suites over. We had fun with them all game but they took it in stride and still think NY has a chance. Ignorance is bliss.
> 
> 
> I belive the feed at Jacobs field is a closed circuit production for Luxury suites, Club seats, and conssesion stands. They probably do not yet have the capability to produce in HD.
> 
> 
> Ray



Yes, it's a special closed-circuit feed. They don't produce in HD yet internally but they can normally insert HD feeds from other sources. They were having an issue which limited them to showing an SD feed of the broadcast.


----------



## Speedskater

Not that anyone was watching it, but tonight on Fox Sports Net HD Ohio was a HD Columbus Hockey Game. From time to time FSN HD plays something, but it's never listed on the Cox Program Guide.


----------



## Inundated

I've seen FSN Ohio do the Bluejackets in HD, and TWC's 798 "HD Bonus" channel has carried them. If they did tonight, I missed it.


798 can be either STO-HD or FSN Ohio-HD, depending on what TWC pumps through. I believe in the Akron/Canton "legacy" TWC markets, both channels have their own positions, though I'm pretty sure they don't upconvert non-HD programming on those HD channels.


And to further confuse EVERYONE, STO lives in another digital place on TWC/former Adelphia systems out of Cleveland - 179! That channel runs 24/7, as does analog 17, but 179 is only SD digital.


----------



## salemtubes

FYI, Dish Network carried last night's baseball playoffs in HD mapped down to channel 139 HD, next to 139 SD. I also read that the HD feed is also temporarily on channel 542, and as of 10/10/07 will be on 9499.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Was this just my system or did anybody else notice all the glitching in the TBS feed from the Jake during both ALDS games? I had audio dropouts and video jitters. I have E* and was watching the SD feed of TBS. It only happened during the game, never during the commercials.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11830690
> 
> 
> Was this just my system or did anybody else notice all the glitching in the TBS feed from the Jake during both ALDS games? I had audio dropouts and video jitters. I have E* and was watching the SD feed of TBS. It only happened during the game, never during the commercials.



Yes, I also noticed the same problems on the E* HD feed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/11821290
> 
> 
> HD MM has done a great job putting the current HD list together for our local providers. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9752
> 
> 
> This is the first I have heard of SDV in our area. As a TiVo user, I have been dreading this news. Can anyone who uses a TiVo Series3/HD or other CableCard device chime in on whether or not you can tune into TBSHD on TWC?



There is no guide data but the channel is available on the S3. Just manually punch in in the station it's suppose to be on in your area. You will need to look at a non TiVo device to figure that out.


You can also go to your channel line up and peruse through there. You can check it off as an available channel. I have reported it to TiVo, suggest you do the same.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11830690
> 
> 
> Was this just my system or did anybody else notice all the glitching in the TBS feed from the Jake during both ALDS games? I had audio dropouts and video jitters. I have E* and was watching the SD feed of TBS. It only happened during the game, never during the commercials.



I noticed that also. It seemed to be triggered by fast lateral motion such as camera pans. I think there was some bandwidth starvation going on in the backhaul feed.


----------



## nickdawg

STO-HD(523) and analog channels 17 and 96 are gone on Time Warner Akron. Maybe TW is freeing up bandwidth for more HD channels? Let's hope WBNX is on it's way!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11836344
> 
> 
> STO-HD(523) and analog channels 17 and 96 are gone on Time Warner Akron. Maybe TW is freeing up bandwidth for more HD channels? Let's hope WBNX is on it's way!



17 & 96 have been gone for a while now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11837058
> 
> 
> 17 & 96 have been gone for a while now.



I wasn't aware of that. So next year if you want the tribe it will be on 179. Which means digital, not analog so people will have to shell out money that don't have digital channels.


----------



## jtscherne

By the way, for HD MM's list, Dish Network just added WTBS-HD. So I guess that leaves WOW as the only local system without it.


Luckily FOX has the American League Championship Series (and the World Series) for Indians fans.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11837843
> 
> 
> By the way, for HD MM's list, Dish Network just added WTBS-HD. So I guess that leaves WOW as the only local system without it.



Armstrong in Medina doesn't have it either.


But we did just get the 30-second skip feature activated on the Motorola DVR boxes!


----------



## I-mon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11836344
> 
> 
> STO-HD(523) and analog channels 17 and 96 are gone on Time Warner Akron. Maybe TW is freeing up bandwidth for more HD channels? Let's hope WBNX is on it's way!



TW better scramble to get WBNX HD channel before they start losing CW fans to AT&T. AT&T is canvasing northeast Ohio with their reps promoting the HD channels they have that Warner does not. They know the Smallville fans want to see Clark in HD. In my case I want to see Lois in HD. What a babe! See you later TW! AT&T gave me a better deal, more local HD channels and their customer service so far is big improvement over the 15 minute wait time I usually endure with TW customer service. TW is too slow to get WBNX HD on. They've been broadcasting in HD since spring, so TW has no excuse! Like I said, see ya TW and hello AT&T!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *I-mon* /forum/post/11841790
> 
> 
> Like I said, see ya TW and hello AT&T!



Hmm. One post, sounding like basically an AT&T commercial...


You don't think...nah. I won't ask him what he does for AT&T...










As far as STO and TWC goes, it's still on analog 17 on the former Adephia system. Though they've "gone dark" right now with just a graphic that says "Go Tribe", and directing people to TBS to watch the game - promising a post-game show afterwards.


----------



## hookbill

I happen to tune in to ABC before lights out and noticed not sound. Checked my recording of Desperate Housewives and no sound their either.


I guess I can watch through closed captioning.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> As far as STO and TWC goes, it's still on analog 17 on the former Adephia system.



STO-SD(channel 76 on TW Akron)is still on the air. The HD version(523) had a STO screen when games were not HD. The whole channel is gone now, I guess since the season is over and games are at TBS and FOX now. AS for 17 and 96: both of these channels were Digital Cable preview channels, just a waste of bandwidth, especially since they were analog.


As for WBNX, thanks Time Warner for showing how PATHETIC you are! WBNX announced that their HD feed would be on cable last fall, but ti never happened. The HD OTA feed went live in April and they couldn't add it in 6 months.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11841975
> 
> 
> I happen to tune in to ABC before lights out and noticed not sound. Checked my recording of Desperate Housewives and no sound their either.
> 
> 
> I guess I can watch through closed captioning.



What happened? Was this tonight? I was watching the Indians, not ABC.

News Channle 5 at 11 is OK, the sound is fine.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11842369
> 
> 
> What happened? Was this tonight? I was watching the Indians, not ABC.
> 
> News Channle 5 at 11 is OK, the sound is fine.



This turned out to be a cable card problem S3. Sorry if I worried anyone. I was able to fix the problem however the show I recorded still does not have sound.







.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11837843
> 
> 
> By the way, for HD MM's list, Dish Network just added WTBS-HD. So I guess that leaves WOW as the only local system without it.
> 
> 
> Luckily FOX has the American League Championship Series (and the World Series) for Indians fans.



Sorry if this is getting repetitive, but as more HD keeps being added, I'd just like to keep everyone up to date with any changes/additions.....


Modified the list to add TBS-HD to E* and at&t U-verse. As jtscherne said, that leaves just WoW! (of the 5 local providers we're tracking) in not having access to HD playoff baseball..... errrrr TBS-HD.


----------



## I-mon




Inundated said:


> Hmm. One post, sounding like basically an AT&T commercial...
> 
> 
> You don't think...nah. I won't ask him what he does for AT&T...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't work for AT&T and never have or will. In fact, I used to loath them for their long distance service charges. But, now that they're providing some much needed competition for Time Warner, I'm happy. Sorry that I sounded like a commercial. I'm just fed up with Time Warner. It could've been any other company that was giving TW competition and I would've sounded like a commercial for them too.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *I-mon* /forum/post/11843719
> 
> 
> No, I don't work for AT&T and never have or will. In fact, I used to loath them for their long distance service charges. But, now that they're providing some much needed competition for Time Warner, I'm happy. Sorry that I sounded like a commercial. I'm just fed up with Time Warner. It could've been any other company that was giving TW competition and I would've sounded like a commercial for them too.



OK, understandable. I just got a little suspicious with the "sales reps out in force" line - that sounded like it came from a company manual.










I'm still wondering if I'll ever switch, though. I am not that upset with TWC, and the Internet service would be a downgrade from TWC's 15Mbps Roadrunner Turbo.


I'm still "in play", though...whenever U-verse starts selling in my area, I'll at least look at it.


----------



## jtscherne

I just checked their website and my address is still shown as not being available, even though I know someone nearby has it. I watched in interest over several days as AT&T worked to get it installed. Of course, the other reason I know it is that somebody's router is broadcasting an SSID of UVERSE001. Luckily it's secured...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11846530
> 
> 
> OK, understandable. I just got a little suspicious with the "sales reps out in force" line - that sounded like it came from a company manual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still wondering if I'll ever switch, though. I am not that upset with TWC, and the Internet service would be a downgrade from TWC's 15Mbps Roadrunner Turbo.
> 
> 
> I'm still "in play", though...whenever U-verse starts selling in my area, I'll at least look at it.


----------



## I-mon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11846632
> 
> 
> I just checked their website and my address is still shown as not being available, even though I know someone nearby has it. I watched in interest over several days as AT&T worked to get it installed. Of course, the other reason I know it is that somebody's router is broadcasting an SSID of UVERSE001. Luckily it's secured...




Their website still shows my address as not available for their service too, but its because AT&T is not keeping up with updating their website with the new areas that they're installing. My neighborhood is ready now and that's why their sales reps are going door to door. If they hadn't come to my door I still wouldn't have known. I even signed up with AT&T's email notification service, but never got anything from them. I even called and was told my area wasn't yet equiped. So, obviously their departments aren't quite keeping up with the changes.


They offered me all TV's hooked up free, DVR (up to 4 shows can be recorded at same time), 400 channels free the first month, and I'm signing up for the broadband Express Pro which is their middle range one for $24.99/month (perm. rate/not introductory). It should be similar in speed to my Roadrunner now (I pay $29/month first 6 months then it goes up to about $40 (not their fastest). The clincher for me was the cheaper internet yet still fast enough and more local HD channels. I've never got to see The CW in HD, so I'm looking forward to it (I have a 42" JVC Plasma). I almost went to buy an antenna because I got tired of waiting for Time Warner, but my neighborhood does not allow antennas on roofs.


Time Warner will have to eventially make room for ALL local HD channels by law, so why don't they just do it already?


----------



## lefkas

I almost went to buy an antenna because I got tired of waiting for Time Warner, but my neighborhood does not allow antennas on roofs.



Deed restrictions and/or neighborhood bylaws prohibiting rooftop antennas or satellite dishes are no longer enforceable pursuant to federal regulations enacted several years ago. You can put up anything you want to get TV reception now.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/11848108
> 
> 
> I almost went to buy an antenna because I got tired of waiting for Time Warner, but my neighborhood does not allow antennas on roofs.
> 
> 
> 
> Deed restrictions and/or neighborhood bylaws prohibiting rooftop antennas or satellite dishes are no longer enforceable pursuant to federal regulations enacted several years ago. You can put up anything you want to get TV reception now.



If the first paragraph was a quote, please state who originally posted that statement. That person needs to visit:
otard


----------



## extremegamer

I'm loving U-Verse. Had it 2 months now, no real issues, and nothing but enjoyment from it. 100X better than TWC. The DVR is nice, pretty cool to set things up to record from anywhere in the world, or delete shows from anywhere.


TBS HD was added today before the Indians game, so at least I get to see one game in HD on TBS. CNN HD is by the end of the month. Tons of stations, and it's cheaper than what I had with TWC, minus the hassles. My internet connection has been so much faster, and I had the TWC turbo. I mainly game online, and yeah TWC's download was faster, but it never seemed like I got any files faster. U-Verse's upload speed smokes what I got with TWC. I get about 950 with U, and I was getting 3-400 with TWC. Not even close.


And TBS HD looks incredible, my God!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/11850655
> 
> 
> My internet connection has been so much faster, and I had the TWC turbo. I mainly game online, and yeah TWC's download was faster, but it never seemed like I got any files faster.



Curious - how high was TWC Roadrunner Turbo up that way? I had 6 MBps with Adelphia, and that recently got bumped up to 15 MBps (!!) with no extra cost.


I am pretty sure U-verse/AT&T can't get close to that. It's a fairer fight at 6, though. It's one issue that keeps me from considering U-verse.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *extremegamer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And TBS HD looks incredible, my God!



Even on TWC. It looks great. At least the baseball does. Can't speak for the rest of the TBS-HD "Stretch-O-Vision", tho.


----------



## extremegamer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11850836
> 
> 
> Curious - how high was TWC Roadrunner Turbo up that way? I had 6 MBps with Adelphia, and that recently got bumped up to 15 MBps (!!) with no extra cost.
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure U-verse/AT&T can't get close to that. It's a fairer fight at 6, though. It's one issue that keeps me from considering U-verse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even on TWC. It looks great. At least the baseball does. Can't speak for the rest of the TBS-HD "Stretch-O-Vision", tho.



Yeah, were 6 down, 1 up. I had the 15 down with TWC, yeah, I would get 12-13 on speed tests, but when I download a file now, it's as fast as I ever was with TWC. I can't explain it, have no clue, it just is. My upload speed is anywhere from 2-3 times faster though, that's the bigger deal to me actually.


----------



## Smarty-pants

conratulations To The
cleveland Indians


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11851866
> 
> congratulations To The
> cleveland Indians



Hitting a bit of the bubbly yourself when you did this?







I corrected.


lol. I'm the worst speller but that one stuck out like a sore thumb.


----------



## hookbill

Totally off subject, but I thought you guys might be interested in this. This is from Filip Bondy of the NY Daily News:

*The Yankees didn't win their division, and then they dropped their third straight, first-round series to a club with no pedigree, racist caps and a $50 million payroll.*


Pretty insulting IMHO.


You can read the whole article here .


----------



## HD MM

A-Rod- 2 for 15, 1 RBI ($27.7 million/year)

Giambi- 1 for 4, 0 RBI ($23.4 million/year)

Jeter- 3 for 17, 1 RBI ($21.6 million/year)

Abreu- 4 for 15, 2 RBI ($15.6 million/year)

Matsui- 2 for 11, 0 RBI ($13 million/year)


NYY's top 5 offensive players with the highest annual salary collectively going 12 for 62 with only 4 RBI, ($101.3 million) while losing to the Cleveland Indians in the ALDS........... PRICELESS!!!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ohhhh, PRICELESS! That is too funny!










Hook, yes, I had a few in me when I posted that







.

And as far as any "comments" that don't give the Tribe their just deserves?... don't expect anything less. I forgive Bondy because he is heartbroken and not to mention EXTREMELY embarassed that the bombers got ROUTED through and through by a team full of talent as opposed to erogance and greed. The is the beginning of the end for the Yankees. They will now have to mostly dismantle and rebuild. No diheartenment from me though. I would love for someone to create a pic of Joe and A-Rod standing in the unemployment line. That would be too funny.

The Indians won't get much love still until they beat Boston, and even then they'll say what was wrong with those Boston players







.


I'll stop there since this is way off topic. GO TRIBE!


----------



## jtscherne

I don't often get bothered by these things, but Sportscenter immediately after the baseball game devoted over 15 minutes to the game and barely mentioned the Indians. It was all about the Yankees and what will happen to them. They played Torre's press conference, but had nothing from the Indians. They remedied this a little for the later show, but even so...


----------



## HD MM

Here is the broadcast schedule for the Indian's ALCS.........


Friday, October 12 @ Red Sox 7:00 PM FOX

Saturday, October 13 @ Red Sox 8:00 PM FOX

Monday, October 15 vs Red Sox 7:00 PM FOX

Tuesday, October 16 vs Red Sox 8:00 PM FOX

Thursday, October 18 vs Red Sox 8:00 PM FOX

Saturday, October 20 @ Red Sox TBD FOX

Sunday, October 21 @ Red Sox TBD FOX


All games to be broadcast in HD, albeit 720p. If the trend continues from what I've seen in the regular season, fans that were used the superiority of STO and TBS's HD may be disappointed in the difference in what we're normally accustomed to.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11854354
> 
> 
> All games to be broadcast in HD, albeit 720p. If the trend continues from what I've seen in the regular season, fans that were used the superiority of STO and TBS's HD may be disappointed in the difference in what we're normally accustomed to.....



Well, that might depend on whether your TV is 720p native or 1080i/p native.


My upstairs small HD set is 720p but I can't honestly say if I notice a huge difference in quality of the TBS broadcast. I did see quite a bit of sound drop off and what I suppose was macro blocking last night on the 720p.


However my 1080i Sony Wega delivers 720p just as crystal clear as you'd want. I love FOX baseball in 720p.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11854702
> 
> 
> Well, that might depend on whether your TV is 720p native or 1080i/p native.
> 
> 
> My upstairs small HD set is 720p but I can't honestly say if I notice a huge difference in quality of the TBS broadcast. I did see quite a bit of sound drop off and what I suppose was macro blocking last night on the 720p.
> 
> 
> However my 1080i Sony Wega delivers 720p just as crystal clear as you'd want. I love FOX baseball in 720p.



I have a 1080i 42" Plasma and a 720p 92" Screen/Projector. I viewed games on both TBS/STO and on Fox and I consider STO/TBS to be ahead in PQ than Fox. However this is only my humble opinion and other eyes may see differently.










On another note, I did notice the sound drop offs on TBS throughout the series. Completely unacceptable, as was the biased media in the broadcast booth....


----------



## Smarty-pants

Thanks goodness the next series is on FOX. First of all, I don't have TBS-HD, only SD since I'm only doing QAM reception right now. So I'm sure the pic will look 100x better for me this time around







.


I think the best thing though, is that I don't have to see any more stupid ads for Frank TV. At first I thought I'd check it out when it airs because his impressions were pretty good, but now?... I'm so sick of seeing those ads that I never want to see or hear of Frank TV ever again.


HD, I agree about the sound... unacceptable. As far as the biased media?... don't get your hopes up about it getting any better. From what I here, the commentators for the ALCS are even worse. So don't expect any love for the Tribe this time around either. For me though, that'll make it all that much sweeter when we spank the RedSox.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I did see quite a bit of sound drop off and what I suppose was macro blocking last night on the 720p.



I noticed this too on the SD feed (via E*). The macro blocking got worse when they switched to a wireless camera on the field. At one point the base runner broke up into a mess of pixels with the background still in tact. I hope FOX does a better job than TBS. I'm glad our championship series in on FOX as opposed to TBS.


----------



## Dweezilz

Too bad you guys didn't get it in HD. I thought TBSHD's PQ was actually very good...if not exceptionally good. I turned the channel to 720p ESPN Monday Night Football during commericial breaks and the PQ was obviously softer and not nearly as good. 720p should look great on my 720p projector, but the 1080i on TBSHD was clearly better, no pun intended. Fox is much the same...PQ is not as good as what I saw on TBS (or STO for that matter). I also thought their camera angles and closeups were very good as well. Everyone that watched in my theater commented about what a great job TBS did...too bad their SD was so disappointing for you guys. There were no breakups, artifacts, or major sound issues of note either on Time Warner. There were a few sound skips at the beginning last night but nothing after that.


No doubt the SD was horrible for you guys, but I couldn't have been more pleased with the HD presentation from WTBS. I'd be more than happy to watch more sporting events on their network if they do as nice a job as they did with the divisional series.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/11856801
> 
> 
> Too bad you guys didn't get it in HD. I thought TBSHD's PQ was actually very good...if not exceptionally good. I turned the channel to 720p ESPN Monday Night Football during commericial breaks and the PQ was obviously softer and not nearly as good. 720p should look great on my 720p projector, but the 1080i on TBSHD was clearly better, no pun intended. Fox is much the same...PQ is not as good as what I saw on TBS (or STO for that matter). I also thought their camera angles and closeups were very good as well. Everyone that watched in my theater commented about what a great job TBS did...too bad their SD was so disappointing for you guys. There were no breakups, artifacts, or major sound issues of note either on Time Warner. There were a few sound skips at the beginning last night but nothing after that.
> 
> 
> No doubt the SD was horrible for you guys, but I couldn't have been more pleased with the HD presentation from WTBS. I'd be more than happy to watch more sporting events on their network if they do as nice a job as they did with the divisional series.




I can't relly comment on the PQ of TBS-HD because all I have is SD right now and couldn't go anywhere to watch the ALDS in HD because I have my kids to take care of. Anyway, dude, do you work for WTBS??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/11856801
> 
> 
> Too bad you guys didn't get it in HD. I thought TBSHD's PQ was actually very good...if not exceptionally good. I turned the channel to 720p ESPN Monday Night Football during commericial breaks and the PQ was obviously softer and not nearly as good. 720p should look great on my 720p projector, but the 1080i on TBSHD was clearly better, no pun intended. Fox is much the same...PQ is not as good as what I saw on TBS (or STO for that matter). I also thought their camera angles and closeups were very good as well. Everyone that watched in my theater commented about what a great job TBS did...too bad their SD was so disappointing for you guys. There were no breakups, artifacts, or major sound issues of note either on Time Warner. There were a few sound skips at the beginning last night but nothing after that.
> 
> 
> No doubt the SD was horrible for you guys, but I couldn't have been more pleased with the HD presentation from WTBS. I'd be more than happy to watch more sporting events on their network if they do as nice a job as they did with the divisional series.




Huh? Who says they didn't get it in HD? The only one I saw was Smarty-Pants. The rest of us were talking about it in HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I'm one who did not get the game in HD. While I have an HD DVR, it's MPEG-2 so I'm limited to the OTA's and now Showtime in HD downconverted to 480i.


The macroblocking I saw I attributed to a wireless camera that was just outside the infield.

The audio problem was off and on throughout the entire series, sometimes there would be video glitching along with the audio dropouts. Perhaps it was an anomaly on the SD side, however at least some with HD also caught the audio dropouts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11858468
> 
> 
> I'm one who did not get the game in HD. While I have an HD DVR, it's MPEG-2 so I'm limited to the OTA's and now Showtime in HD downconverted to 480i.
> 
> 
> The macroblocking I saw I attributed to a wireless camera that was just outside the infield.
> 
> The audio problem was off and on throughout the entire series, sometimes there would be video glitching along with the audio dropouts. Perhaps it was an anomaly on the SD side, however at least some with HD also caught the audio dropouts.



Actually after I posted I did go back over and saw your post. As most everyone else confirmed, sound drop offs were common in HD. But if they can't even get the SD decent, geeze.


I mean it's not like this station has never done baseball. They've been doing it at least since 1980, maybe even before that.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11854702
> 
> 
> Well, that might depend on whether your TV is 720p native or 1080i/p native.
> 
> 
> However my 1080i Sony Wega delivers 720p just as crystal clear as you'd want. I love FOX baseball in 720p.



Does the Wega display 720P or accept 720P and convert to 1080i?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11859495
> 
> 
> Does the Wega display 720P or accept 720P and convert to 1080i?



I don't really know. All I know is it's native 1080i, and it shows 720p perfectly. I would guess it converts.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11859589
> 
> 
> I don't really know. All I know is it's native 1080i, and it shows 720p perfectly. I would guess it converts.



-just curious. Our Sony rptv accepts and converts 720P to 1080i and looks very good too. I think the Sony's have superior scaling in the TV. I just wondered if the Wega was different and displayed 720P.


----------



## jtscherne

Just for HD MM's list:


DirecTV added four more HD channels today:


MGMHD

National Geographic HD

Food Network HD

CNBC HD


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11863319
> 
> 
> Just for HD MM's list:
> 
> 
> DirecTV added four more HD channels today:
> 
> 
> MGMHD
> 
> National Geographic HD
> 
> Food Network HD
> 
> CNBC HD



Thank you.


With these additions, D* just took the lead in total HD channel offerings with 45.

HD channel list updated.


----------



## I-mon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/11848108
> 
> 
> I almost went to buy an antenna because I got tired of waiting for Time Warner, but my neighborhood does not allow antennas on roofs.
> 
> 
> 
> Deed restrictions and/or neighborhood bylaws prohibiting rooftop antennas or satellite dishes are no longer enforceable pursuant to federal regulations enacted several years ago. You can put up anything you want to get TV reception now.



It doesn't matter to me that I can now legally put up an antenna in my neighborhood because I don't want to be the only one. I'd stand out like an idiot in my neighborhood. The homes around me are all 9 years old or less, between $320,000 and $1,750,000, and one antenna on my roof would really look bad. Yes, I've considered it, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. So, U-Verse it is for now.


I also heard of people getting a very good HD signal with just an indoor antenna. Is it true that if you get the signal at all the picture will be perfect, but if it isn't strong enough then your screen is blank? From what I've heard, it's not like an analog signal in that the old way you could get a fuzzy signal and see it. Any comments?


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *I-mon* /forum/post/11863739
> 
> 
> I also heard of people getting a very good HD signal with just an indoor antenna. Is it true that if you get the signal at all the picture will be perfect, but if it isn't strong enough then your screen is blank? From what I've heard, it's not like an analog signal in that the old way you could get a fuzzy signal and see it. Any comments?



Essentially this is true - w/digital you either get it, or you don't.


But while the old analog signal would be fuzzy, a digital signal w/issues (poor reception or multipath) will result in dropouts & pixellation which frankly can be worse than a fuzzy picture as the audio will be mangled as well.


An indoor may work for you, at least on some channels - 3 & 19 (Digital 2 & 10 respectively) won't be easy w/an indoor. A lot depends on where you are relative to the Parma antenna tours, what your elevation is & if you can point out a window towards the towers rather than through a wall which will attenuate your signal. Check out www.antennaweb.org to figure out how far you are from the digital towers & where they are precisely.


Another option would be to do a big antenna in the attic - not as good as outside, but perhaps your best compromise.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11857196
> 
> 
> Huh? Who says they didn't get it in HD? The only one I saw was Smarty-Pants. The rest of us were talking about it in HD.



Hook, I was replying to the two posts previous to my post (Michael P 2341 and Smarty-Pants) who seemed to get it in SD only. If you got it in HD and it looked bad to you, then you have some other issues going on. You live close to me...come on over for the next TBSHD game and compare to what you are seeing.







Seriously though, I've been viewing HDTV since 1999 and I can tell you it looked excellent on Time Warner in Twinsburg. I know all the typical HDTV PQ issues and overall, it was very good. FAR better than the PQ that I saw on ESPN's football predsentation. TBSHD was clear and crisp on my 106" theater screen, 51" Sony HDTV and 37" Wesy 1080p LCD.


Not sure what you were seeing if you thought otherwise...I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder then.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/11864312
> 
> 
> Hook, I was replying to the two posts previous to my post (Michael P 2341 and Smarty-Pants) who seemed to get it in SD only. If you got it in HD and it looked bad to you, then you have some other issues going on. You live close to me...come on over for the next TBSHD game and compare to what you are seeing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though, I've been viewing HDTV since 1999 and I can tell you it looked excellent on Time Warner in Twinsburg. I know all the typical HDTV PQ issues and overall, it was very good. FAR better than the PQ that I saw on ESPN's football predsentation. TBSHD was clear and crisp on my 106" theater screen, 51" Sony HDTV and 37" Wesy 1080p LCD.
> 
> 
> Not sure what you were seeing if you thought otherwise...I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder then.



I thought the picture for the most part was great. I did see a bit, just a bit of macroblocking. Maybe you got up to get a sandwich.







Without a doubt I heard sound drop offs and they were frequent. And that wasn't through dolby 5.1, just off my 19" LCD. Others have said they heard it as well.


Other then that I was fine with it.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11864613
> 
> 
> I thought the picture for the most part was great. I did see a bit, just a bit of macroblocking. Maybe you got up to get a sandwich.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without a doubt I heard sound drop offs and they were frequent. And that wasn't through dolby 5.1, just off my 19" LCD. Others have said they heard it as well.
> 
> 
> Other then that I was fine with it.



I also saw the macroblocking/minor breakups on the portable field cams. (Often used to shoot the players that trotted around the bases following a homerun). I and others have also noticed the audio dropouts. They usually came in about 3 quick stutters in audio every once in a while throughout the game. Except for those flaws, the picture itself was pretty great......


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11864659
> 
> 
> I also saw the macroblocking/minor breakups on the portable field cams. (Often used to shoot the players that trotted around the bases following a homerun). I and others have also noticed the audio dropouts. They usually came in about 3 quick stutters in audio every once in a while throughout the game. Except for those flaws, the picture itself was pretty great......



Yep, I'm really only talking about the PQ (hence saying the PQ was great.







). I heard the sound drop-offs in the beginning 3 or 4 innings and then not much after that. They did come in quick little stutters. Fox also is notorious for crappy sound so compared to that it was not too horrible. As for PQ, I was really surprised how good it was. I swear when I turned on the football game on ESPN, it was like night and day. ESPN looked softer and washed out in comparison. I guess it could be different lighting situations to some degree.


Sorry though if I wasn't clear...I was only speaking of the video quality, not sound. I didn't see much of the macroblocking (maybe a couple times at most)...not as much as I see on other networks such as NBC etc... The only other gripe I have with their presentation was the 'score bar' on top. I hated it...too low...too big...too much useless information on it. Did we really need to be reminded it was GAME 4 in the bar or have the Divisional Series logo on the bar? Less is better.


----------



## lionmilk

Hi there,


I have a CBS (WOIO-DT) problem since my antenna is not getting the signal at all, but I can get harder signals so there may be another problem.


Please see the attached image and help me fill these values for my program.


I think I got the first 3 values OK but I could not find Service ID or Transport Stream ID which is essential to watch.


I am using Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick with bundled software (Pinnacle TVCenter Pro) and can get all digital channels for my area except WOIO-DT


Thanks.


----------



## MarcS

Searched this thread, but no results...


For the general Chardon location, really Auburn Rd. south of Mayfield, is there any indoor antenna (small amp'd model like Silver Sensor) that will pull in all the stations? Darn near line of sight to horizon in the W/SW direction.


I'm doing some leg work for my parents (I live in NC) who don't yet have an HD set (until I buy one for them!







).


They do have a large antenna on a mast with rotor and amp, but that drop feed is close to 80' or so from where I want to put the new TV. I really don't want to mess with running coax, a small local antenna by the set would be sooo much easier.


Anyone with direct experience that lives in that general area?


Please don't refer me to antennaweb.org, I've already got the printouts of distance to xmitter antennas, and I've been doing OTA HD for years, just want hard evidence for that location.


Particularly concerned about the low power for CBS (WOIO 3.5kW ERP), even though their service contour map extends well beyond Chardon...


Thanks!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarcS* /forum/post/11874719
> 
> 
> Searched this thread, but no results...
> 
> 
> For the general Chardon location, really Auburn Rd. south of Mayfield, is there any indoor antenna (small amp'd model like Silver Sensor) that will pull in all the stations? Darn near line of sight to horizon in the W/SW direction.
> 
> 
> I'm doing some leg work for my parents (I live in NC) who don't yet have an HD set (until I buy one for them!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> 
> They do have a large antenna on a mast with rotor and amp, but that drop feed is close to 80' or so from where I want to put the new TV. I really don't want to mess with running coax, a small local antenna by the set would be sooo much easier.
> 
> 
> Anyone with direct experience that lives in that general area?
> 
> 
> Please don't refer me to antennaweb.org, I've already got the printouts of distance to xmitter antennas, and I've been doing OTA HD for years, just want hard evidence for that location.
> 
> 
> Particularly concerned about the low power for CBS (WOIO 3.5kW ERP), even though their service contour map extends well beyond Chardon...
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I don't live there but I may be able to give you some insight. I have the Silver Sensor. You can't go wrong with it as long as you can live with a few things.


1.) The SS is extremely directional, you may have to reaim it for some stations (although from your location that should not be necessary since the minor differences between the Parma towers come into a single focus by the time you reach the far east-side).


2.) The SS is not a powered antenna! However that is actually a plus since amplified antennas amplify everything - the signal you want and the noise you don't want. I use my SS to pickup the Akron stations which are 25 miles away with little problem.


3.) Any indoor antenna works best when placed in a window facing the transmitters. Building materials tend to distort the signals while glass (with no screen) is more or less transparent. I do not have the luxury of a south-facing window for the Akron stations. I can get a lock with an 85-87 strength signal through a wall and my garage door. If I had a window I bet I'd get a 125 (the highest my E* 921 goes).


You appear to be in a great location - very little ground clutter between you and the towers. Good luck!


----------



## MarcS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11877711
> 
> 
> I don't live there but...



Someone from Parma giving advice......?














LOL (couldn't resist)


Been a long time since I lived up that way, but back then (60s, early 70s), Parma sure did take a lot of crap...


The Silver Sensor is only UHF... and aren't a couple of the Cleveland stations VHF-DT?


I might try a small combo antenna with an amp to see how it works, much easier than running all that coax.....


Thanks...


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarcS* /forum/post/11874719
> 
> 
> They do have a large antenna on a mast with rotor and amp, but that drop feed is close to 80' or so from where I want to put the new TV. I really don't want to mess with running coax, a small local antenna by the set would be sooo much easier.



I'm in Geauga county in a similar terrain (a bit south of their location), and I found a rooftop antenna necessary to get reliable coverage of all the local channels.


So I say that you should run the coax. And just think of how many other stations (non-local) they'll be able to pull in with that tall antenna and rotor. It would seem a shame to waste that capability. If I had that antenna, I'd definitely want to use it.


----------



## MarcS

Jim, sent you a PM...


Well... maybe I'll just spend the time I'd be messing with a settop antenna, and run the coax... I'm sure that's the best solution, just not the easiest...


Michael, are you old enough to remember the Ghoulardi show???







(re: Parma jokes, etc...)


And for those of you who are too young: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoulardi


----------



## GLuis

PARMA?????


To this day I can't look at a pink flamingo or chrome ball yard ornament without smiling and thinking of his shows. Not to mention white socks and perogis (although I do love perogis, yum







)


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11887594
> 
> 
> PARMA?????
> 
> 
> To this day I can't look at a pink flamingo or chrome ball yard ornament without smiling and thinking of his shows. Not to mention white socks and perogis (although I do love perogis, yum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Does this board go to _Parma?_







Now I've got "_Who Stole the Keeshka_" running in my head again...


----------



## hookbill

As a person who didn't grow up in this area I have no idea what in the heck you guys are talking about. Parma, as I understand it is some kind of a joke. Kind of like the way New Yorkers talk about people from New Jersey?


----------



## JJkizak

Ghoulardi with Big Chuck and later Little John with their kind of "Polish" based humor had some hilarious skits---like Big Chuck walking along the beach and seeing a beautiful Big Mack sitting on a rock then taking a bite out of the burger and getting hooked and swiftly dragged into the water---caught by a big fish.

JJK


----------



## Tim Lones

The "Parma" Schtick actually began on the Ghoulardi Show when show director Chuck Schodowski (Big Chuck) Moved to a home in Parma. Ernie Anderson (Ghoulardi) constantly ribbed him about white socks, pink flamingos, etc..The Height of all this was a series of skits called "Parma Place" ..It was Ghouldardi himself who said, "Does this program go to Parma?"


nice website for fans of Big Chuck and Lil John with lots of history, pictures, forums, etc..They also cover Hoolihan and the Ghoulardi years..


http://www.bigchuckandliljohn.com/


----------



## Tom in OH

Is the Kent State vs. OSU game being broadcast by anyone tomorrow?


----------



## Lighting Guy

I'm currently watching WKYC-DT via QAM, and am only getting a 480i signal. Really looks like crap. Anybody else seeing this?


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11890776
> 
> 
> Is the Kent State vs. OSU game being broadcast by anyone tomorrow?



Just on the big ten network from what I can find...


----------



## salemtubes

Fink! Knif! Amrap! Stay sick! Turn blue! Cool it! Dorothy!


Some Ghoulardi links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e52cXCrmauc 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoulardi 

http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/5035/ 

http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionC...Ghoulardi.html 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e4iQfVC4V...elated&search= 



http://members.tripod.com/~Ghoulardi/


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> It was Ghouldardi himself who said, "Does this program go to Parma?"



Not only did the show go to Parma, it was transmitted form there!



> Quote:
> Michael, are you old enough to remember the Ghoulardi show??? (re: Parma jokes, etc...)



You bet!


I'd love to see the short film they used to show on Ghoulardi where they showed an aerial view of Parma while playing the folk song "Little Boxes". I live near the subdivision where all the streets are named after Florida cities. Rumor has it that the pink flamingos where brought to Parma by "snow birds" who took 3-month vacations in Florida during the winter. They loved Florida so much that they wanted to bring some of that sunshine up here, hence we got the pink flamingos and streets named "Coral Gables" and "Hialeah" (I'm still looking for the race track there







).


Just to set the record straight - I'm not a Parma native. I'm originally from Euclid where CFPL used to come in occasionally like a local station every summer until WOIO-DT came along.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/11892908
> 
> Fink! Knif! Amrap! Stay sick! Turn blue! Cool it! Dorothy!
> 
> 
> Some Ghoulardi links:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e52cXCrmauc
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoulardi
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/5035/
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionC...Ghoulardi.html
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=e4iQfVC4V...elated&search=
> 
> 
> 
> http://members.tripod.com/~Ghoulardi/



Good stuff, Salemtubes. Thanks for the links, you purple knif!










BTW, I remember when they started brodcasting Ghoulardi in color. I still remember Anderson joking that they didn't have a color monitor in the studio because "they only figured out how to transmit it - they haven't figured out how to _receive_ it yet!"


----------



## Inundated

There's a definite age/generation gap in Cleveland based on whatever Channel 8 ran late weekend nights.


I'm too young to remember Ghoulardi (though I certainly know of him, and his post-Ghoulardi career with that booming voice).


But I grew up watching Hoolihan and Big Chuck...which likely predates some of our younger folks here.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Jeez man! When did this become the old fart thread?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lionmilk* /forum/post/11873538
> 
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> 
> I have a CBS (WOIO-DT) problem since my antenna is not getting the signal at all, but I can get harder signals so there may be another problem.
> 
> 
> Please see the attached image and help me fill these values for my program.
> 
> 
> I think I got the first 3 values OK but I could not find Service ID or Transport Stream ID which is essential to watch.
> 
> 
> I am using Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick with bundled software (Pinnacle TVCenter Pro) and can get all digital channels for my area except WOIO-DT
> 
> 
> Thanks.



You shouldn't have to enter values like that to pick up an over the air station. Maybe if you were trying to tune a QAM cable channel, but not OTA. Really bad software design. May I humbly suggest you return that thing and buy an AutumnWave OnAir USB GT. They have a thread going here on AVS with great support. I use one when travelling and it's great.

www.autumnwave.com 


I bought mine from www.copperbox.com


----------



## Felony44

Again CBS refuses to carry the Browns in HD. I hate CBS i dont watch any shows that they have on but im forced to watch sub par tv on Sundays does anyone know when CBS loses the NFL? I know the NFL mandated that all games be in HD next year but i dont want to watch CBS if i dont have to as far as i am concerned CBS can go off the air forever and i wont miss them one bit!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/11900710
> 
> 
> Again CBS refuses to carry the Browns in HD. I hate CBS i dont watch any shows that they have on but im forced to watch sub par tv on Sundays does anyone know when CBS loses the NFL? I know the NFL mandated that all games be in HD next year but i dont want to watch CBS if i dont have to as far as i am concerned CBS can go off the air forever and i wont miss them one bit!



AFAIK, CBS doesn't lose the NFL anytime soon. However rumor is all their games will be HD next season. I beleive the NFL mandate is every game in HD in the 2009 season, not the 2008 season.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Please take a moment and let all three of these organizations know your displeasure with CBS not showing the Browns' games in HD.

http://www.nfl.com/contact-us 

http://www.cbs.com/info/user_service...bal_form.shtml 


Call (440) 824-6284 for feedback to the Browns. I don't see any email address or feedback form on their site.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Felony44* /forum/post/11900710
> 
> 
> Again CBS refuses to carry the Browns in HD. I hate CBS i dont watch any shows that they have on but im forced to watch sub par tv on Sundays does anyone know when CBS loses the NFL? I know the NFL mandated that all games be in HD next year but i dont want to watch CBS if i dont have to as far as i am concerned CBS can go off the air forever and i wont miss them one bit!



The truth of the matter is CBS does not care about Cleveland, they are not what they consider an important team and they probably don't like Raycom anymore then we do







. So therefore unless they are playing someone considers important like Steelers, Patriots, they are the last ones to get HD.


However as Paule123 points out next year all games are mandated to be in HD.


And as I pointed out before, who the heck cares about the Browns. Go Tribe. I'm actually rooting for them to beat the Red Sox, the team I followed since I was 16. I figure since the Red Sox have won it once, it's Tribe Time baby.


----------



## Smarty-pants

GO TRIBE !!!



































































I was sooo tiired last night staying up to watch the end of that game. Now I am sooo tired having to get up with the kids at 6am this morning. Now I have to get ready to go in to work for a few hours and I'm gonna be sooo tired. Ya know what though, I WAS WORTH IT INDEED. To see the Indians wallop the Sox in the 11th was so awesome. Now they're back in Ohio baby and it's time for Cleveland to ROCK!


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11892167
> 
> 
> I'm currently watching WKYC-DT via QAM, and am only getting a 480i signal. Really looks like crap. Anybody else seeing this?



Ok am I really the only person having this problem? I've discovered I'm actually getting a 480i feed on nbc-dt, fox-dt and abc-dt. CBS-dt is still 1080i, but whoop-de-do, the browns game isn't in hd so who cares.... Anywho, rant over about cbs, but why am I not getting hd feeds?!


Like I mentioned TWC QAM, and it worked fine a couple days ago.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11897620
> 
> 
> 
> But I grew up watching Hoolihan and Big Chuck...which likely predates some of our younger folks here.



Oh the memories... We used to watch Hoolihan&BC too and switched over to channel 61 now and then hoping to catch 'The Ghoul' blowing up car models with firecrackers...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11902016
> 
> 
> Oh the memories... We used to watch Hoolihan&BC too and switched over to channel 61 now and then hoping to catch 'The Ghoul' blowing up car models with firecrackers...



Hoolihan and Chuck were good in a different way from Ghoulardi. I watched them both but I enjoyed Ghoulardi the most. He was the first local tv host to take things out of the box. When you think about how formal and stuffy television programming was in those days, his attitude was groundbreaking.


I spoke to someone the other day who has a friend that used to live in one of his houses, and she said he was a pretty wild guy. Yes, he really did ride his motorcycle through the hallways of the station.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11901785
> 
> 
> Ok am I really the only person having this problem? I've discovered I'm actually getting a 480i feed on nbc-dt, fox-dt and abc-dt. CBS-dt is still 1080i, but whoop-de-do, the browns game isn't in hd so who cares.... Anywho, rant over about cbs, but why am I not getting hd feeds?!
> 
> 
> Like I mentioned TWC QAM, and it worked fine a couple days ago.



You do realize there is a regular digital 480i feed on TW for WKYC, correct? There is an analog feed(803), a digital feed in 480i (3) and the HD feed (703). I watched the channel 3 news this morning on 703 and I can confirm that was in HD. So maybe you need to search around a bit with your QAM tuner.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11902371
> 
> 
> You do realize there is a regular digital 480i feed on TW for WKYC, correct? There is an analog feed(803), a digital feed in 480i (3) and the HD feed (703). I watched the channel 3 news this morning on 703 and I can confirm that was in HD. So maybe you need to search around a bit with your QAM tuner.



+1 on what Hookbill said. Methinks you're on the wrong freuency or your tuner has latched onto the wrong PID.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11902371
> 
> 
> You do realize there is a regular digital 480i feed on TW for WKYC, correct? There is an analog feed(803), a digital feed in 480i (3) and the HD feed (703). I watched the channel 3 news this morning on 703 and I can confirm that was in HD. So maybe you need to search around a bit with your QAM tuner.



Well I'm using qam, so my channels are analog (3) and hd (3-1). I use the "favorites" of MYHD (my tuner) which only has digital channels. Did TW do this only to qam channels maybe? I'll rescan with my tuner, but like I said, I use favorites that only has 3-1, 19-1, 5-1, and 8-1. and like I said, 19-1 is the only one actually in HD. All of these channels are labeled by the tuner as HD, ie, WKYC-HD...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11903278
> 
> 
> Well I'm using qam, so my channels are analog (3) and hd (3-1). I use the "favorites" of MYHD (my tuner) which only has digital channels. Did TW do this only to qam channels maybe? I'll rescan with my tuner, but like I said, I use favorites that only has 3-1, 19-1, 5-1, and 8-1. and like I said, 19-1 is the only one actually in HD. All of these channels are labeled by the tuner as HD, ie, WKYC-HD...



Since I personally have little knowledge of QAM tuners I'm probably not the best person to answer your question. I tried to apply some logic to what I do know in hopes of being somewhat helpful. Sorry if I confused you more, but I think your on the right track by doing a rescan.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11903403
> 
> 
> Since I personally have little knowledge of QAM tuners I'm probably not the best person to answer your question. I tried to apply some logic to what I do know in hopes of being somewhat helpful. Sorry if I confused you more, but I think your on the right track by doing a rescan.



No its cool, thanks for trying. Sadly a rescan is not helping. The -1 channels are still labeled as HD even though they are 480i (except CBS). Maybe someone else using QAM can chime in. On the bright side, I did find TNT-HD on 88-2, which was not there last scan.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11892182
> 
> 
> Just on the big ten network from what I can find...



just found your post. You were right, it finally showed up on the D* guide for the BTN channel right before the game(it said 'to be announced' most of the day). The Kent State - OSU game looked a little fuzzy but glad to receive it - couldnt' find it anywhere else.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11902016
> 
> 
> Oh the memories... We used to watch Hoolihan&BC too and switched over to channel 61 now and then hoping to catch 'The Ghoul' blowing up car models with firecrackers...



I must have logged more time with Mr. Sweed than I'd remembered. I stumbled onto some YouTube videos featuring "The Ghoul" and instantly remembered nearly all of his regular bits/music/etc...


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11903451
> 
> 
> No its cool, thanks for trying. Sadly a rescan is not helping. The -1 channels are still labeled as HD even though they are 480i (except CBS). Maybe someone else using QAM can chime in. On the bright side, I did find TNT-HD on 88-2, which was not there last scan.



I'm on QAM in Canton and all my HDs are fine. Same as it's been for months. Maybe they're messing around with your system right now since supposedly TW is adding new channels to their line-up this week. WB in HD anyone?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/11900819
> 
> 
> AFAIK, CBS doesn't lose the NFL anytime soon. However rumor is all their games will be HD next season. I believe the NFL mandate is every game in HD in the 2009 season, not the 2008 season.



The 2008 season sounds right. Since the HD conversion is set for Feb. 2009, I'd think that they would want to get all the bugs worked out before the HD broadcast becomes the standard. The worst thing would be if in the 2009 season, they have HD problems and we're left with a window boxed game. I get the feeling "19 Action News" will NOT be HD by 2009.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11906141
> 
> 
> The 2008 season sounds right. Since the HD conversion is set for Feb. 2009, I'd think that they would want to get all the bugs worked out before the HD broadcast becomes the standard. The worst thing would be if in the 2009 season, they have HD problems and we're left with a window boxed game. I get the feeling "19 Action News" will NOT be HD by 2009.



There's no mandate/requirement for HD by 2009, only digital broadcast.


----------



## hookbill

Speaking of "Action News 19", I stopped at a Getgo in Twinsburgh to get gas and I'll be darned if directly in front of me is one of their remote trucks. there are two guys in the truck and I mentioned to one of them "When are you guys going to get Dolby 5.1?" He said, "I don't know." I said, "But you guys are the only major network without it, do you know how bad that makes you look?" He said (of course) "Nothing I can do about it. I think even their HD is horrible." Now this is coming from a guy who WORKS there. He says he gets his HD via cable.


Now the fact that they are filling up at a Getgo also gives you an idea of how cheap Raycom is. You would think that they would have a company credit card for a major oil company.


They probably make their guys shop at Giant Eagle so they can save money on gas purchased for Raycom. This company is so tight it's squeeks.


----------



## jtscherne

For HD MM:


DirecTV added Fox Business Netork today at Channel 359 in both SD and HD.


----------



## jtscherne

Forgot to check before posting!

Directv also added the following today:


Cartoon Network (296)

Fuel (612)

FX (248)

HGTv (229-1)

Speed (607)

FSN Detroit (636)

FSN West (652)

FSN Prime Ticket (653)


As well as 6 HD PPV channels


----------



## jeffleonard

WOIOs HD is unwatchable. They split off bandwidth for that stupid weather channel, and the PQ is awful.


I dont really mind the Browns not being in HD, because the poor quality just makes me angry.


II have talked to engineering, and they dont seem to be able to do much (anything) about it.










loved CBS HD back in 2000. The OTA signal was great.


Now, it just breaks my heart for CBS football to be a pixellated mess.


----------



## JJkizak

Lighting Guy:

I have the MY HD 120 and you must select the proper resolution in the menu as there are about 10 different ones available. If the proper resolution is selected for your TV (720P or 1080i) and you still have 480i you are using the wrong inputs to the tv. You must use the component analog component output of the MY HD 120 or DVI if the TV will accept it. Here is a stupid question---Is your tv an HDTV?

JJK


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11906999
> 
> 
> Forgot to check before posting!
> 
> Directv also added the following today:
> 
> 
> Cartoon Network (296)
> 
> Fuel (612)
> 
> FX (248)
> 
> HGTv (229-1)
> 
> Speed (607)
> 
> FSN Detroit (636)
> 
> FSN West (652)
> 
> FSN Prime Ticket (653)
> 
> 
> As well as 6 HD PPV channels



Thank you.

The List amended to add 6 more to D*'s HD Count:


(BTW, please also note that the RSN's/PPV's will not count toward the list, unless relevant to our local Cleveland market, (ie FSN-OH or STO) but will be noted with an "*" and mentioned in the Notes at the bottom of the spreadsheet.


This bring's D* HD count to 51! Channels added to the list were:


1. Fox Business Network (359)

2. HGTV HD (229-1)

3. FX HD (248)

4. Speed Network HD (607)

5. Fuel HD (612)

6. The Cartoon Network (296)


----------



## jtscherne

At this point, Big Ten Network games will not be re-broadcast on any local channels. The rest of Ohio State's football games this year will be on ESPN or ABC, but the major issue will be when basketball starts up. BTN will have a large number of games.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11904120
> 
> 
> just found your post. You were right, it finally showed up on the D* guide for the BTN channel right before the game(it said 'to be announced' most of the day). The Kent State - OSU game looked a little fuzzy but glad to receive it - couldnt' find it anywhere else.


----------



## jtscherne

I notice that Adam Shapiro (formerly of WEWS) is now a reporter for Fox Business Network. During a story today he took an opportunity to say "Go Tribe" as part of his report!


----------



## dleising

Wasn't those rumored TWC HD channels planned to launch today? Anybody see them?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/11910444
> 
> 
> Wasn't those rumored TWC HD channels planned to launch today? Anybody see them?



That's why they are "rumored" TWC HD channels.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11910478
> 
> 
> That's why they are "rumored" TWC HD channels.



True, I guess we _are_ talking about TWC here...


----------



## jtscherne

Here's an interesting article about how things are going at AT&T U-verse:

http://www.cable360.net/technology/a...vcs/26065.html


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11911339
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting article about how things are going at AT&T U-verse:
> 
> http://www.cable360.net/technology/a...vcs/26065.html



Factor that makes it totally unsat for me is the limit of one HD channel at any one time. During prime time, we very frequently are watching one previously recorded program while recoring two new ones.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11911593
> 
> 
> Factor that makes it totally unsat for me is the limit of one HD channel at any one time. During prime time, we very frequently are watching one previously recorded program while recoring two new ones.




Wow, that really sucks. I haven't had time to read the article but considering I never watch anything "live" except sports and I record frequently as many as 6 HD shows during some primetime nights I couldn't work with that.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11898398
> 
> 
> Jeez man! When did this become the old fart thread?



Living up to your handle, eh?







Just wait, SP you'll see what it's like to be an "old fart", sooner than you think


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11913998
> 
> 
> Living up to your handle, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wait, SP you'll see what it's like to be an "old fart", sooner than you think


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11914527



If an "old fart" hadn't invented television, you'd still be watching your radio


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/11908845
> 
> 
> Lighting Guy:
> 
> I have the MY HD 120 and you must select the proper resolution in the menu as there are about 10 different ones available. If the proper resolution is selected for your TV (720P or 1080i) and you still have 480i you are using the wrong inputs to the tv. You must use the component analog component output of the MY HD 120 or DVI if the TV will accept it. Here is a stupid question---Is your tv an HDTV?
> 
> JJK



Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?


I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this...


----------



## dj9

Why would Time Warner reencode the HD channels into 480i? It makes no sense.


----------



## hopefulhdtvguy

Has anyone heard when DirecTV will broadcast the HD version of PBS? Are they already carrying PBS HD in other markets? I live in the greater Cleveland area (go Tribe!) and would love to be able to see Ken Burns': "The War" in HD! One of the local Cable providers carries PBS HD already so I figure D* may do it soon?


----------



## ibaker

Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but I'll ask anyway.


I'm trying to view HDTV on my PC monitor (Samsung 226cw - which I highly recommend). I live in Novelty (TWC Cleveland Heights), and could only get a few channels OTA with a interior antenna. So I thought that clear QAM would be the way to go. I'm having very little success.


I tried the VisionTek (Ati chip) HD 650 and the channel scan returned nothing. I'm not sure if it is the lame card or lack of an actual clear QAM signal. I was under the impression that clear QAM is a FCC requirement, at least for the local digital channels.


So my question is:


Does anyone with TWC in Geauga county have any suggestions for Hardware/Software to receive QAM HD on a PC? I would try the Hauppauge/WinTV 1600 but not all of them are QAM capable and I don't think that BestBuy would appreciate me opening all their boxes to check the the product code sticker... and the HDHomeRun seems a bit overkill for my needs. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11916052
> 
> 
> Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?
> 
> 
> I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this...



If you call TW they will probably say, gee, sorry about your problem but if you would like to PAY for digital channels and HD service, we would be happy to provide you a decoder box.....










Not to make you feel bad but I watched the Tribe game in glorious HD and DD 5.1 last night. It was great.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11916052
> 
> 
> Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?
> 
> 
> I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this...



It sounded weird to me, too, so I checked what I'm getting on my MyHD card that's installed in my computer. Sure enough, T/W is transmitting SD signals where they used to have HD. It's affecting at least 3, 5, and 8. Yet my SA8300 DVR is still showing HD on those channels. That's as far as I've gotten so far, but I'll try to check deeper to see what's going on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/11918706
> 
> 
> It sounded weird to me, too, so I checked what I'm getting on my MyHD card that's installed in my computer. Sure enough, T/W is transmitting SD signals where they used to have HD. It's affecting at least 3, 5, and 8. Yet my SA8300 DVR is still showing HD on those channels. That's as far as I've gotten so far, but I'll try to check deeper to see what's going on.



Jim, are they required to provide the hd signals to QAM customers? I know cable cards they have to. Just wondering.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11918740
> 
> 
> Jim, are they required to provide the hd signals to QAM customers? I know cable cards they have to. Just wondering.



No, they're not required to, but they've been doing so for a very long time, so I wouldn't have expected it to change. And why would they change it on only a handful of channels? WVIZ, Discovery channel, and TNT are still coming in full HD.


The weird thing is that I can't tell what's changed. I've checked my SA8300 and the affected channels are still coming in on physical channels 104 and 105, just as they have been. My computer is still looking for them in the same place, but it's finding SD instead. This doesn't make a lot of sense.


I'm running a new channel scan on my PC right now, so maybe that will shed some additional light.


----------



## Sesummers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ibaker* /forum/post/11917687
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but I'll ask anyway. Does anyone with TWC in Geauga county have any suggestions for Hardware/Software to receive QAM HD on a PC? ... and the HDHomeRun seems a bit overkill for my needs.



I'm not in Geauga county, but I have TWC (in Green). I have an HDHomeRun box, and I'm thinking of adding a second one. They're kind of expensive per-tuner, but they somehow fool Windows Media Center into thinking the QAM signals are OTA. I believe there's some new unsupported way to get QAM into Vista, but I'm still using WMC2005, and AFAIK the HDHR is the only way to do QAM with that. Anyway, the thing works great, and because it works over the network, you can hook up the cable signals where they come in, rather than having to run them to your PC, which can be a big advantage too.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11916052
> 
> 
> Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?
> 
> 
> I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this...



Additional SD streams were added to those frequencies. Retrain your equipment to locate the HD PIDs again.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* 
I'm running a new channel scan on my PC right now, so maybe that will shed some additional light.
OK, I've got it figured out. T/W moved some of their QAM HD channels from one subchannel to another. They are still on the same physical channel, but the subchannel has changed. Here are the current assignments:


WKYC-HD 104-3

WEWS-HD 105-3

WJW-HD 105-4

WUAB-HD 104-4

TNT-HD 88-2

WVIZ-HD 113-1

Discovery-HD 86-2

WOIO-HD 113-2


Lighting Guy, you can edit your mcl file for your MyHD card directly to correct the channels, or you can just do a new channel scan. I think you'll find it easier to edit the current listing - you need only change those first four channels to the correct subchannel. Don't forget to update your CWEPG settings if you use that.


BTW, I'm glad you brought this up - my PC captured SC versions of some shows last night, but now that won't happen again (at least until the next time T/W changes something without telling us).


I'll attach my current mcl file (zipped) so you can use that if you like.

 

JimFav.zip 0.5234375k . file


----------



## Smarty-pants

Didn't Lighting Guy already say that he did a rescan on his tv and that it didn't change anything?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hopefulhdtvguy* /forum/post/11916789
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard when DirecTV will broadcast the HD version of PBS? Are they already carrying PBS HD in other markets? I live in the greater Cleveland area (go Tribe!) and would love to be able to see Ken Burns': "The War" in HD! One of the local Cable providers carries PBS HD already so I figure D* may do it soon?



Do you get the Cleveland locals in HD via D*? I bet they only carry the "Big 4" in true HD. The only way to get PBS HD is OTA. I see you are in Painesville, you'll have a tough time getting either PBS station OTA there until WVIZ works out it's problems with the owners of their tower.


Right now most of us can get WEAO/WNEO OTA but Lake County is blocked by terrain. if you can put up a 50' tower, try and get either Akron or the Youngstown area signals.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ibaker* /forum/post/11917687
> 
> 
> Does anyone with TWC in Geauga county have any suggestions for Hardware/Software to receive QAM HD on a PC? I would try the Hauppauge/WinTV 1600 but not all of them are QAM capable and I don't think that BestBuy would appreciate me opening all their boxes to check the the product code sticker... and the HDHomeRun seems a bit overkill for my needs. Any help would be appreciated.



I'm not in Geauga county, but I'd recommend your trying the AutumnWave OnAir GT. http://www.autumnwave.com/ 


If you order it from Walmart you can return it to the store if it doesn't work for you. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4995009 


A tech from AutumnWave monitors this thread in the HTPC forum if you have any specific questions. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589


----------



## dj9

I like the HDHomeRun. In Green, I only get HD locals, the PPV & NBA preview channels, & a few random digital simulcast channels (they change every few months.)


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/11921772
> 
> 
> I'm not in Geauga county, but I'd recommend your trying the AutumnWave OnAir GT. http://www.autumnwave.com/
> 
> 
> If you order it from Walmart you can return it to the store if it doesn't work for you. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4995009
> 
> 
> A tech from AutumnWave monitors this thread in the HTPC forum if you have any specific questions. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589



I tried the AutumnWave GT on a Win2k Sp2 box; it was really ugly. I think the specs call for something higher, but I tried it anyway. So don't.


On the other hand, I've had good results on the same machine with the Dvico Fusion-5 Gold. Of course YMMV.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/11920038
> 
> 
> OK, I've got it figured out. T/W moved some of their QAM HD channels from one subchannel to another. They are still on the same physical channel, but the subchannel has changed. Here are the current assignments:
> 
> 
> WKYC-HD 104-3
> 
> WEWS-HD 105-3
> 
> WJW-HD 105-4
> 
> WUAB-HD 105-3
> 
> TNT-HD 88-2
> 
> WVIZ-HD 113-1
> 
> Discovery-HD 86-2
> 
> WOIO-HD 113-2
> 
> 
> Lighting Guy, you can edit your mcl file for your MyHD card directly to correct the channels, or you can just do a new channel scan. I think you'll find it easier to edit the current listing - you need only change those first four channels to the correct subchannel. Don't forget to update your CWEPG settings if you use that.
> 
> 
> BTW, I'm glad you brought this up - my PC captured SC versions of some shows last night, but now that won't happen again (at least until the next time T/W changes something without telling us).
> 
> 
> I'll attach my current mcl file (zipped) so you can use that if you like.



AH HA!


I'm not crazy... well, not this time anyway. I did indeed do a rescan just yesterday and didn't find those new channels. I'm doing it again as I type, and if that doesn't work I'll just change the mcl file. That was pretty random of TWC to do this, but hopefully it means good things...










Thanks Jim


----------



## hopefulhdtvguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11921418
> 
> 
> Do you get the Cleveland locals in HD via D*? I bet they only carry the "Big 4" in true HD. The only way to get PBS HD is OTA. I see you are in Painesville, you'll have a tough time getting either PBS station OTA there until WVIZ works out it's problems with the owners of their tower.
> 
> 
> Right now most of us can get WEAO/WNEO OTA but Lake County is blocked by terrain. if you can put up a 50' tower, try and get either Akron or the Youngstown area signals.



I thought Time Warner had WVIZ in HD! I do get ABC, CBS, NBC, & FOX in HD via DirecTV. I don't use OTA anymore. Do you think the "tower" issue might have something to do with D* not carrying it?


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hopefulhdtvguy* /forum/post/11928245
> 
> 
> I thought Time Warner had WVIZ in HD! I do get ABC, CBS, NBC, & FOX in HD via DirecTV. I don't use OTA anymore. Do you think the "tower" issue might have something to do with D* not carrying it?



TWC does carry WVIZ-HD. I get it QAM.


----------



## nickdawg

Also WNEO-HD and WNEO-DT are on Time Warner. WNEO is MUCH easier to get OTA. And WNEO is better. The other day I saw a show in 5.1 on WNEO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11928796
> 
> 
> Also WNEO-HD and WNEO-DT are on Time Warner. WNEO is MUCH easier to get OTA. And WNEO is better. The other day I saw a show in 5.1 on WNEO.



Not in my are it isn't available on TW although it is listed in their channels list on line.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/11928075
> 
> 
> ....if that doesn't work I'll just change the mcl file.



I don't know how I messed that up, but here is the correct info for WUAB:


WUAB-HD 104-4


I've corrected it in the original post above as well.


BTW, the mcl file that I posted had it right all along.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/11930223
> 
> 
> I don't know how I messed that up, but here is the correct info for WUAB:
> 
> 
> WUAB-HD 104-4
> 
> 
> I've corrected it in the original post above as well.
> 
> 
> BTW, the mcl file that I posted had it right all along.



Yep I noticed that while editing my mcl list, and looked at your mcl list to make sure. Thanks for that. I figured out the problem I did with the rescan a couple days ago, I didn't clear everything first, so it did not find a "new" channel for WKYC-HD (for example). Once I cleared everything it found the new channels/subchannels correctly. I got to watch the 9th inning in HD.


----------



## HD MM

OT...


Went to the Tribe game last night. What an experience! There is no comparison to Playoff Baseball at Jacob's Field! Here's to hoping that we take the AL Pennant in front of our home crowd on Thursday!


Go Tribe. Magic Number is at 5.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Magic number at 5... I like that







, too funny







.

I have a good feeling about game five. ALL the pressure is off the Indians and especially Sabathia. They're on a roll and I think they're gonna win on Thursday too.

GO TRIBE


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11931729
> 
> 
> OT...
> 
> 
> Went to the Tribe game last night. What an experience! There is no comparison to Playoff Baseball at Jacob's Field! Here's to hoping that we take the AL Pennant in front of our home crowd on Thursday!
> 
> 
> Go Tribe. Magic Number is at 5.



Either you go to the game on Thursday or you are to stayed glued to your HDTV for the entire game. I'm very superstitious and if they lose on Thursday I'll think it's your fault.


----------



## JJkizak

I did notice that the FOX OTA HD feed was a bit on the noisy side in the low light areas.

Not exactly the best quality---Oh I forgot, this is the Cleveland market.

JJK


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11931891
> 
> 
> Either you go to the game on Thursday or you are to stayed glued to your HDTV for the entire game. I'm very superstitious and if they lose on Thursday I'll think it's your fault.



I don't have ticks to the Thursday game, but trust me, I will be glued to my HD screen for every minute of the action on Thursday. I just haven't decided whether or not to go up to The Boneyard in Mayfield and watch on their 25' HD Projection Screen, or just watch at home. Watching these games in public with mass Tribe fans is quite a thrill....


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/11932156
> 
> 
> I did notice that the FOX OTA HD feed was a bit on the noisy side in the low light areas.
> 
> Not exactly the best quality---Oh I forgot, this is the Cleveland market.
> 
> JJK



I noticed that too. I thought it was just artifacts from the downrezzed picture I have (I'm watching WJW-DT downrezzed to 480i). Other HD games I've watched on this system did not have the visual noise I see during the ALCS.


----------



## GLuis

Have no real complaints regarding the Fox OTA transmission other than a sound issue. All my 5.1 Dolby receiver kept picking up was Joe Buck's pro Boston commentary. Apparently the complementary Cleveland comments kept getting clipped. Gee, I hope Fox fixes that soon.


{tongue out of cheek}

What a couple of hack commentators. Boston can come back from 3 down like they did against the Yankees If Wakefield does get a glove on that Cabrerra hit the Indians would be down 3 runs to 1


Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda. If my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle.


Of course, the same thing happened back in the 90's with Bob Costas' pro New York slant.


----------



## Smarty-pants

GLuis, they will be eating crow soon enough







. I think on Thursday (if it's not rained out) I'll turn on the radio and watch the game with the mute intact. I myself am sick of hearing all that garbage. Like I said though... soon enough.


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11934376
> 
> 
> GLuis, they will be eating crow soon enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I think on Thursday (if it's not rained out) I'll turn on the radio and watch the game with the mute intact. I myself am sick of hearing all that garbage. Like I said though... soon enough.




Yeah, I've tried that but there is too much of a delay between the radio and video. Heck, there is even a delay between OTA HD and SD. The other night I was watching the game on HD while my son was up in his room watching it on SD, both OTA. I hear him clapping and yelling while I'm still seeing Trot Nixon just about to swing the bat. Bang, there's the hit.


Of course, with the condition of his bedroom he's probably hiding a time warp worm hole under all the crap and is able to see 5 seconds into the future.


----------



## jtscherne

I was watching the game via Directv HD, my girlfriend was on the phone via WOW cable and I had the radio on.


WTAM first

WOW - 3 seconds after WTAM

Directv - 10 seconds after WOW!


I don't get a good signal for Fox OTA, so I don't know where that would fit into the mix!


----------



## eddy_winds

Go Tribe


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11934966
> 
> 
> I was watching the game via Directv HD, my girlfriend was on the phone via WOW cable and I had the radio on.
> 
> 
> WTAM first
> 
> WOW - 3 seconds after WTAM
> 
> Directv - 10 seconds after WOW!
> 
> 
> I don't get a good signal for Fox OTA, so I don't know where that would fit into the mix!



That doesn't surprise me that much that Directv is behind, but it does surprise me that WTAM was in front of WOW (but maybe not as its less information to travel...). Last night I was leaving the Q after working and stopped for a couple minutes to watch a TV outside a bar, it was funny to hear Jacobs field go nuts for a hit, and than see it on Fox about 3 seconds later.


----------



## hookbill

When I was watching a Dodger game on MLB Extra Innings being carried by Prime Ticket (A Fox Sports channel in L.A.), I was talking to my friend out in L.A. and he could hear my feed while I was talking to him. I was actually a few seconds _ahead_ of his feed.


I know that HD in my house is always a bit slower then OTA, I have one channel that comes through OTA (SD) and it's always ahead of my HD channel.


----------



## GLuis

With the radio being locally produced and broadcast it would naturally be the quickest. The TV signal has a few satellite bounces involved between the network feed and our providers whether it be cable, OTA, Dish, Direct, etc.


Lot of mileage involved there adding up to time. 5 to 10 seconds though is unbelievable.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11936074
> 
> 
> With the radio being locally produced and broadcast it would naturally be the quickest. The TV signal has a few satellite bounces involved between the network feed and our providers whether it be cable, OTA, Dish, Direct, etc.
> 
> 
> Lot of mileage involved there adding up to time. 5 to 10 seconds though is unbelievable.



Not really, 22,500 miles one way to the satellites = one heck of a delay. And a digital signal adds to the latency (it takes measurable time for the program to be encoded at the origination and then decoded at the receiver). That is one advantage analog had over digital. While there is also some latency in terrestrial analog transmissions the delay is measured in microseconds as opposed to seconds.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/11932156
> 
> 
> I did notice that the FOX OTA HD feed was a bit on the noisy side in the low light areas.
> 
> Not exactly the best quality---Oh I forgot, this is the Cleveland market.
> 
> JJK



yeah I noticed that too, but I thought well maybe my toshiba is not good at blacks, because I have seen it before, but the funny thing is, I saw it on prison break on fox, seeing apattern here, and glad I am not the only one (really thought I got a crappy tv, one of the reasons we bought of toshiba was for the playoffs







)


----------



## hookbill

FOX8 also had several freeze up today. It was during the 4:30 to 5:15 hour. I ended up switching to WEWS.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11937048
> 
> 
> Not really, 22,500 miles one way to the satellites = one heck of a delay. And a digital signal adds to the latency (it takes measurable time for the program to be encoded at the origination and then decoded at the receiver).



Well, not that much of a delay. Round-trip time is roughly 0.242 seconds.










mike


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/11934291
> 
> 
> Have no real complaints regarding the Fox OTA transmission other than a sound issue. All my 5.1 Dolby receiver kept picking up was Joe Buck's pro Boston commentary. Apparently the complementary Cleveland comments kept getting clipped. Gee, I hope Fox fixes that soon.



An easy solution is to turn the volume on your center channel to zero and dispense with the motor-mouths!


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/11941310
> 
> 
> An easy solution is to turn the volume on your center channel to zero and dispense with the motor-mouths!




Hot damn, never thought of that. Going to give it a shot tonight.


----------



## Speedskater

The time delay is not (for the most part) the trip to the satellite and back.

It's digital signal processing and data compression. Watching a local channel news show in HD and the same show in SD on PiP, the analog may be 2 seconds ahead of the HD digital.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/11940683
> 
> 
> Well, not that much of a delay. Round-trip time is roughly 0.242 seconds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mike



It's way more than 0.242 seconds! I read where someone used a satellite uplink/downlink to create a video delay (i.e. they received their own signal back at the same location). This was using an analog signal! I don't have the exact amount of time it took but it had to be at least a few seconds (maybe as much as 5 to 7 seconds). As I posted earlier and Kevin confirmed, digital encoding and decoding takes additional time.


For those of you who get your local stations via E* or D* measure the delay between the OTA signal and the satellite delivered signal. It's at least a 15 to 20 second delay!


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11945667
> 
> 
> It's way more than 0.242 seconds! I read where someone used a satellite uplink/downlink to create a video delay (i.e. they received their own signal back at the same location). This was using an analog signal! I don't have the exact amount of time it took but it had to be at least a few seconds (maybe as much as 5 to 7 seconds). As I posted earlier and Kevin confirmed, digital encoding and decoding takes additional time.
> 
> 
> For those of you who get your local stations via E* or D* measure the delay between the OTA signal and the satellite delivered signal. It's at least a 15 to 20 second delay!




I agrre with Mike about the time for the signal to get to the satellite and back. I ran the math and also get .2415919 seconds for the 22,500 mile round trip.


Ray


----------



## Michael P 2341

There is more involved than just the raw speed of light. Once the signal hits the satellite it has to be processed on the bird and resent on a different frequency. That adds to the latency, even with an analog signal.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11947463
> 
> 
> There is more involved than just the raw speed of light. Once the signal hits the satellite it has to be processed on the bird and resent on a different frequency. That adds to the latency, even with an analog signal.



Analog processing latency is negligible, but digital latency (especially if there's any stat muxing going on) can be huge and variable.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/11947463
> 
> 
> There is more involved than just the raw speed of light. Once the signal hits the satellite it has to be processed on the bird and resent on a different frequency. That adds to the latency, even with an analog signal.



I was referring to where you said "Not really, 22,500 miles one way to the satellites = one heck of a delay." I agree there is significant delay in the processing and relaying of the digital feed - only pointing out the RF travel time is a relatively insignificant part of the overall delay.


No worries...


A lot of RF relay systems (both analog and digital) implement an intentional delay to cut off "badness" before the signal is delivered to the end user. If something comes in on the receiver that shouldn't go back out, the delayed signal can be filtered before going back out. I wouldn't be surprised if D* and E* do something similar...


mike


----------



## HD MM

Amended HD List as E* added NHL-HD to their lineup.....


----------



## ljgc

Is there anywhere in the Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown area that I can purchase Channel Master 4228 antenna locally?


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ljgc* /forum/post/11962659
> 
> 
> Is there anywhere in the Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown area that I can purchase Channel Master 4228 antenna locally?



Have you checked Philcap in Akron? (I have not been to the store in 2 years)
www.philcap.com 

330.253.2109


----------



## HD MM

Watching the OSU vs. Michigan St. Game on WEWS ABC. The game is supposed to be in HD. It appears someone hasn't flipped the switch yet as it's still in SD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11965280
> 
> 
> Watching the OSU vs. Michigan St. Game on WEWS ABC. The game is supposed to be in HD. It appears someone hasn't flipped the switch yet as it's still in SD.



Well, it appears the switch was finally flipped on following the Bucks first possession and touchdown.


----------



## zipkicker

Hello, i searched some of the pages about not being able to recieve WKYC HD


i can get the other channels at almost 100 all the time


i am using the terk hdtva indoor amplified antenna


i have dishnetwork...which i heard they were adding local hd channels to the HD bundle in 3-6 months..anyone else hear this?


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zipkicker* /forum/post/11968799
> 
> 
> Hello, i searched some of the pages about not being able to recieve WKYC HD
> 
> 
> i can get the other channels at almost 100 all the time
> 
> 
> i am using the terk hdtva indoor amplified antenna
> 
> 
> i have dishnetwork...which i heard they were adding local hd channels to the HD bundle in 3-6 months..anyone else hear this?



Hi, is the Terk designed to receive low VHF(digital 2)? WKYC is one of the hardest to pull in due to interference. Hopefully WKYC will be more reliable when they move to (digital 17). We couldn't get any usable signal yesterday for most of the day which is strange. Maybe they had a technical issue that made it worse than usual yesterday. It's coming in ok now.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zipkicker* /forum/post/11968799
> 
> 
> i have dishnetwork...which i heard they were adding local hd channels to the HD bundle in 3-6 months..anyone else hear this?



Yeah, I heard the same thing about 2 years ago, and got sick of waiting so I switched to Direct TV.


----------



## Inundated

I'm not near my HD stuff so I can't see it...


But has WOIO "19 Action News" become HD??? I'm watching on an SD set away from home and they are using the "19 Action News HD" graphics all over the place...


----------



## Smarty-pants

I just can't understand why anyone would watch "19 Action News"!









It's comparable to watching Jerry Springer to get tips on relationships.


----------



## hookbill

As you all know TBSHD has been around for a few weeks. www.zap2it.com has not as of yet added it to their listings on channel 778. This is important for me as my S3 relies on Tribune Media to give me my channel data. So while I can see channel 778 I cannot get any program data.


The reason I'm asking for assistance is I have talked to TiVo and Tribune Media now until I am blue in the face. If you guys who have TW would be so kind, please click here and send them an email requesting they add channel 778 to their listings.


To make it simple just copy what I have below and send it to them


On the subject line: Lineup Discrepency


Cable System: Time Warner Neo - Digital 44202

Phone number: 877.772.2253

Provider Service: Digital HD Cable

Problem: Channel 778 is nowTBSHD. Please change this in your system.

Problem: Channel 185 is now FBN. Please also change this in your system.


I get the feeling I'm the only one complaining, and maybe I'm wrong but if a couple of you guys will pitch in with me, perhaps this will get quicker results. It should only talke a couple of seconds of your time and will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,


Hook.


----------



## Inundated

I sent my own, hookbill. Thanks!


And you know how I feel about 19 Tabloid News. Now that they're in HD, I still won't watch them until, well, they actually put a real newscast on!


----------



## zipkicker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11970618
> 
> 
> Hi, is the Terk designed to receive low VHF(digital 2)? WKYC is one of the hardest to pull in due to interference. Hopefully WKYC will be more reliable when they move to (digital 17). We couldn't get any usable signal yesterday for most of the day which is strange. Maybe they had a technical issue that made it worse than usual yesterday. It's coming in ok now.




you know when they are supposed to be switching to 17?


yeah the terk is the 2nd antenna i got with low vhf reception, with no luck, but the other channels are better than the old antenna i had


----------



## paule123

I had to check out a bit of the 19 news at 11. What a joke. They didn't spend a dime on an HD set. Denise Dufala (sp?) in HD, with a soccer net behind her. Real classy. :lol:


I can't wait to see Tiffany Amber blonde what 'er name with the contrast turned up to 11.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/11975051
> 
> 
> I sent my own, hookbill. Thanks!
> 
> 
> And you know how I feel about 19 Tabloid News. Now that they're in HD, I still won't watch them until, well, they actually put a real newscast on!



Thanks Inundated.


And as far as 19 news goes, I haven't had a chance to look at them. Maybe tonight I'll take a look at bed time since there is no baseball to look at.


Speaking of baseball, sorry Tribe fans. I pulled for you which was quite an accomplishment for me considering how long I've been a Red Sox fan. Now that it's over however I can root for the Sox again as they are going against one of my Dodger's nemesis, the Colorado Rockies. What a bunch of lucky b**tards. Red Sox in 5.


----------



## JJkizak

Channel 19 news is a spinofff of the National Enquirer. (We got the story 10 seconds faster than anybody else)

JJK


----------



## engineer760

Can someone please confirm that WOIO has actually gone HD? Why no announcement at their site about the new local HD newscasts? Is it just a soft launch with a big announcement geared for November sweeps?


----------



## Rambozo

Probably more of a "Shh, maybe nobody will notice we're the last to the game" move.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11976810
> 
> 
> Thanks Inundated.
> 
> 
> And as far as 19 news goes, I haven't had a chance to look at them. Maybe tonight I'll take a look at bed time since there is no baseball to look at.
> 
> 
> Speaking of baseball, sorry Tribe fans. I pulled for you which was quite an accomplishment for me considering how long I've been a Red Sox fan. Now that it's over however I can root for the Sox again as they are going against one of my Dodger's nemesis, the Colorado Rockies. What a bunch of lucky b**tards. Red Sox in 5.



Better luck next year for my beloved Indians





















.

Hook, I really could care less now who does or doesn't win the WS, but I don't think Boston has much of a chance. I'd pick the Rockies in 6.


----------



## lefkas

Anyone out there on Canton TWC picking up any new QAM channels over the last few weeks? I have done several scans and come up with no additions.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I'm in Canton and nothing new for me either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joel.jackson* /forum/post/11977657
> 
> 
> Can someone please confirm that WOIO has actually gone HD? Why no announcement at their site about the new local HD newscasts? Is it just a soft launch with a big announcement geared for November sweeps?



Not trying to be a wise guy but a couple of respected members of this forum have already confirmed it. If you have a HD television you can confirm it yourself, it comes on at 4:00 pm today.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/11970618
> 
> 
> Hi, is the Terk designed to receive low VHF(digital 2)? WKYC is one of the hardest to pull in due to interference. Hopefully WKYC will be more reliable when they move to (digital 17). We couldn't get any usable signal yesterday for most of the day which is strange. Maybe they had a technical issue that made it worse than usual yesterday. It's coming in ok now.



Any new schedule or timetable for both WKYC or WVIZ hd tower upgrades?


----------



## jtscherne

Picture looks pretty soft to me, or the anchors are wearing heavy amounts of makeup! They had some technical problems this afternoon and I saw a green screen more than once. I'm obviously not planning to watch it regularly, but I guess we should be happy that they've moved forward.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/11981175
> 
> 
> Picture looks pretty soft to me, or the anchors are wearing heavy amounts of makeup! They had some technical problems this afternoon and I saw a green screen more than once. I'm obviously not planning to watch it regularly, but I guess we should be happy that they've moved forward.



I won't consider it a move forward until they add Dolby 5.1.


----------



## hookbill

I just took a look at Tabloid 19 News in HD. I remember WEWS had some problems starting up too but this was just plain ugly. The real "HD" picture looked washed out to me and their remote shots had lines running through them. Weather looked awful with those borders.


Hope they plan on doing more because right now they arn't doing themselves any favor.


----------



## rlb

Plus, they still don't have DD sound. Their studio HD news still has two channel audio.


Hard to imagine they would invest the money to originate HD programming; but would not invest the much smaller amount to provide DD (which would also allow them to "pass on" the network DD).


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11981812
> 
> 
> WUAB has already added 5.1. I first noticed it on Saturday. It seems really dumb that the old sitcom/talk show/judge show/paid program channel would get 5.1 and CBS-HD(who actually has HD programming) doesn't get 5.1. But then again, what do you expect from the Reserve Square Failures? Two weeks ago, the news craw was unreadable from all the ghosting on their HD channel.



If they did, it sure isn't consistent. Just checked recording of last night's Cold Case. It's 2.0.0.


You possibly were confused by a "Dolby Digital" display on your receiver or processor. But if you go further you will see that it is 2.0.0 Dolby Digital and not 3.2.1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11981894
> 
> 
> If they did, it sure isn't consistent. Just checked recording of last night's Cold Case. It's 2.0.0.



Cold case is on WOIO. Nickdawg is saying WUAB has 5.1. And if it's true it makes no sense that WUAB would have it and not WOIO.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11982174
> 
> 
> Cold case is on WOIO. Nickdawg is saying WUAB has 5.1. And if it's true it makes no sense that WUAB would have it and not WOIO.



Duuh!! First mistake I ever made.


----------



## hookbill

I just flipped on WUAB-HD and I'll be damned if I don't see the Simpsons (in upgraded SD) and the Dolby 5.1 signal on my receiver.


I suppose they think that a "younger" crowd which watches that crap they put on "My 43" appreciates Dolby more or might be attracted to watch?


----------



## jtscherne

Yep. I'm getting 3/2 on Family Guy. Just like Raycom to do something like this...


----------



## Inundated

Doesn't My Network TV run some music shows? Maybe that's why.


----------



## HD MM

CBS released their NFL HD plans for the upcoming week 7 through week 9. Good news Browns fans; 2 of our next 3 games will be in HD!


Sunday, Oct. 28th- Cleveland @ St. Louis- 1pm. CBS-SD









Sunday, Nov. 4th- Cleveland vs. Seattle- 4pm. FOX-HD









Sunday, Nov. 11th- Cleveland @ Pittsburgh- 1pm. CBS-HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11987184
> 
> 
> CBS released their NFL HD plans for the upcoming week 7 through week 9. Good news Browns fans; 2 of our next 3 games will be in HD!
> 
> 
> Sunday, Oct. 28th- Cleveland @ St. Louis- 1pm. CBS-SD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday, Nov. 4th- Cleveland vs. Seattle- 4pm. FOX-HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday, Nov. 11th- Cleveland @ Pittsburgh- 1pm. CBS-HD



In fact CBS is only broadcasting one game in HD, and that's because it is Pittsburg. FOX of course broadcast all their games in HD.


----------



## jeffleonard

At least the FOX game will have decent PQ.


----------



## JJkizak

I figured out what shot down the Indians. Voodoo. Did you see what the Boston bullpen was doing when Sabathia & Carmona were pitching? Rubbing sticks togetther, making Voodoo clicking noises etc. They couldn't get the ball over the plate if they walked up to it with the Voodoo chants and noises going in the background.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/11988074
> 
> 
> I figured out what shot down the Indians. Voodoo. Did you see what the Boston bullpen was doing when Sabathia & Carmona were pitching? Rubbing sticks togetther, making Voodoo clicking noises etc. They couldn't get the ball over the plate if they walked up to it with the Voodoo chants and noises going in the background.
> 
> JJK



Let me understand this. We're at Fenway Park. The bullpen is out by the bleachers. There are about 35,000 very die hard Boston fans yelling, screaming, threatening lives, but a few sticks being rubbed together in the bullpen disturbed them?


----------



## Pucky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11988139
> 
> 
> Let me understand this. We're at Fenway Park. The bullpen is out by the bleachers. There are about 35,000 very die hard Boston fans yelling, screaming, threatening lives, but a few sticks being rubbed together in the bullpen disturbed them?



Are the die-hard fans those in the pink Red Sox hats, or the green shamrock Red Sox shirts? "Die Hard since 2004" maybe....


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11987245
> 
> 
> In fact CBS is only broadcasting one game in HD, and that's because it is Pittsburg. FOX of course broadcast all their games in HD.



For hopefully the last time, FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/11990523
> 
> 
> For hopefully the last time, FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD.



Really? Everyone I look at is in HD.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11987245
> 
> 
> In fact CBS is only broadcasting one game in HD, and that's because it is Pittsburg. FOX of course broadcast all their games in HD.



According to the following, all the CBS games, other than the Browns, are HD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...20&postcount=1


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/11990523
> 
> 
> For hopefully the last time, FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD.



I know we've had this conversation before, but I am still unsure of your statement: "FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD."


You sure you don't mean, the NFC does not broadcast all of their games in HD?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/11990831
> 
> 
> According to the following, all the CBS games, other than the Browns, are HD:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...20&postcount=1



I think Hook meant 1 game out of the 3 week window I gave for the Browns....


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zipkicker* /forum/post/11975390
> 
> 
> you know when they are supposed to be switching to 17?
> 
> 
> yeah the terk is the 2nd antenna i got with low vhf reception, with no luck, but the other channels are better than the old antenna i had




WKYC's digital 17 wont come on till WDLI-TV Canton's analog 17 shuts off and moves to digital channel 39. I just got the Terk HDTVa..It does a little better on the stations I do get, but no vhf digital..


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11990873
> 
> 
> I think Hook meant 1 game out of the 3 week window I gave for the Browns....



"I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.


----------



## Tim Lones

Question: (possibly a dumb one)


I have two indoor amplified antennas..If I can find a way to activate them both using a splitter and pointing them different directions, would it double the signals I receive?


----------



## nickdawg

WOIO-DT in 5.1!


I'm not sure when it happened, but as of 3:30PM when I turned on WOIO-HD , it's coming through as Dolby Digital 3/2.1! Finally! I can't wait to see how primetime shows are. Last nights CSI Miami in 2.0 was bad(like usual).


----------



## Smarty-pants

Sooohm Beeatch! That is good news!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/11991831
> 
> 
> Sooohm Beeatch! That is good news!



+1

















Wow, what a day. TiVo2Go was made available for the S3 today and this news makes it a wonderful day in the world of electronics. I can't get anything done with all this excitement.


----------



## nickdawg

Now if only WKYC would fix their sound. WEWS, WUAB and WOIO are in 5.1 all the time, even on local programming and it sounds grreat. WKYC reads "Dolby Digital 3/2" on local programming and the sound is horrible. The center speaker is NEVER on and it sounds like just L and R. Sound is very low during news. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/11991914
> 
> 
> Now if only WKYC would fix their sound. WEWS, WUAB and WOIO are in 5.1 all the time, even on local programming and it sounds grreat. WKYC reads "Dolby Digital 3/2" on local programming and the sound is horrible. The center speaker is NEVER on and it sounds like just L and R. Sound is very low during news. Has anyone else noticed this?




I dont' think it's WKYC's issue. Some of the programs, like Las Vegas have great 5.1 sound. Others like any of the law & order series you have to crank up your back speakers to get a whisper.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/11991929
> 
> 
> I dont' think it's WKYC's issue. Some of the programs, like Las Vegas have great 5.1 sound. Others like any of the law & order series you have to crank up your back speakers to get a whisper.



I was talking about the news and afternoon talk shows. They used to be in 2.0 and NBC shows were 5.1. Local programming and afternoon syndicated shows used to be in 2.0, like FOX8 does.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/11990996
> 
> 
> Question: (possibly a dumb one)
> 
> 
> I have two indoor amplified antennas..If I can find a way to activate them both using a splitter and pointing them different directions, would it double the signals I receive?



This might work: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=CC7870


----------



## zipkicker

got an email from WKYC Senior producer frank macek---


Hi Mike,




Funny you askI was just talking to our chief engineer about this a few days agoand it is not likely until near the February 2008 cut off date.




It's not that we are not ready to go The Canton station on Channel 17 analog will not leave the channel until thenso we are kinda stuck waiting for them to move. An analog and digital channel apparently can not broadcast on the same channel at the same time.. I don't understand it all, but that's the deal.




Have you tried getting an HD booster antennae.. I believe Radio Shack has them and it might help.




Thanks for writing.



also...


Mike,


Yes, you are correct we planning to move to channel 17. While we do not have final permission from the FCC this should happen at the analog cut-off date of February 17th 2009.



Mike Szabo

Directory of Technology

WKYC-TV


is it 08 or 09?


----------



## Smarty-pants

09


----------



## Inundated

By the way, yes, FOX has a non-HD NFL game or two. I think they can do up to 6 in HD, and if there's a game 7 on a week, it's not.


FOX does send up the odd game out in SD widescreen mode, tho...


And the analog cutoff date is indeed in 2009.


----------



## HD MM

You're right Inundated and Mike_Stuewe. I stand corrected. Got this straight from Fox's site........

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6671136 


"FOX Sports' 2007 NFL broadcast schedule once again boasts an unmatched offering of high-definition programming. Starting with three preseason broadcasts in August, six games each week during the regular season and complete coverage throughout the NFL postseason, FOX Sports presents up to 105 games in high-definition this season, representing over 90% of all games covered. FOX Sports remains the only NFL broadcaster to produce as many as six NFL regular season games in HD each Sunday."


I guess it just so happens that since we reside in an AFC and CBS market, that the majority of local viewers don't ever see the "non-HD" Fox game.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/11997632
> 
> 
> I guess it just so happens that since we reside in an AFC and CBS market, that the majority of local viewers don't ever see the "non-HD" Fox game.....



Which explains why I see all HD on FOX games.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

there is a discussion every week in the HDTV Programming forum about regarding which NFL games will be in HD. thats the best place to look for info on upcoming games.


----------



## nickdawg

5.1 is gone on WOIO and WUAB!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ah, the ole' TRICK instead of TREAT







. They're probably just still working on it.


----------



## hookbill

Too good to last. Man this is even shorter then the last time they fired up 5.1.


I wouldn't be surprised however to see it come back and fairly soon. Perhaps they were testing for November sweeps.


Then again who knows. Raycom is so strange.


----------



## nickdawg

I hope it's back by 9 or 10 tonight for CSI:NY and Criminal Minds.


----------



## nickdawg

OMG! As of 5:07, 5.1 is back on WOIO. Sound right, hook. The people at Reserve Square are not the sharpest crayons in the box, so things like this take them longer!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12002817
> 
> 
> OMG! As of 5:07, 5.1 is back on WOIO. Sound right, hook. The people at Reserve Square are not the sharpest crayons in the box, so things like this take them longer!



I'm glad to hear it's back, I record a CBS show or two almost nightly. I'm still two weeks behind in my viewing so it's going to be a bit before I actually hear the network shows in 5.1.


----------



## paule123

Does anyone have a theory as to why DirecTV has a WEWS in the guide on channel 9314 (I think that's what it is) ? It's been showing up on my HR20 for the last couple weeks. I sure hope WEWS isn't getting ready to launch a subchannel or something...


----------



## nickdawg

Right now during "Phenomenon" is a good example of WKYC's audio problem. On WKYC-SD, the sound is 2.0 and when upconverted it sounds good and the center speaker works. On WKYC-HD, only the left and right speakers work and not one peep out of the center, but it comes through as 3/2


And WOIO was excellent tonight! Criminal Minds and CSI:NY were great in 5.1! I hope 5.1 sticks around for CSI tomorrow and the Gohst Whisperer on Friday!


----------



## rlb

Just confirmed that 19-1 is still DD 3.2.1. I'm amazed; but must acknowledge that so far WOIO is doing a great job with their DD. I've seen fewer problems than when 5-1 began their DD 5.1 service


I feel obliged to give them this credit; because in the past I've made many, many comments about the fact that they don't care about quality. Hope they continue to prove me wrong.


----------



## lefkas

Is anyone out there able to pick up any of the Pittsburgh stations OTA ? I have heard that people with an outdoor antenna in eastern Stark County may be able to do so.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12009618
> 
> 
> Just confirmed that 19-1 is still DD 3.2.1. I'm amazed; but must acknowledge that so far WOIO is doing a great job with their DD. I've seen fewer problems than when 5-1 began their DD 5.1 service
> 
> 
> I feel obliged to give them this credit; because in the past I've made many, many comments about the fact that they don't care about quality. Hope they continue to prove me wrong.



WEWS to this day is still having problems. Last night I noticed the track was slightly off on a recording of "Grays Anatomy." And yes I'm sure that it's WEWS, after all I have a TiVo S3.


----------



## nickdawg

8300HD---I've also noticed some background noise on WEW-HD and sometimes the sound is off. The worst thing is during the news when there are loud bursts of sound when a different anchor starts talking or they go to a package. Their news audio has been messed up since they started HD news. But WOIO was amazing last night with CSI:NY. WKYC disappointed.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12010337
> 
> 
> WEWS to this day is still having problems. Last night I noticed the track was slightly off on a recording of "Grays Anatomy." And yes I'm sure that it's WEWS, after all I have a TiVo S3.



For the argument's sake, I'll agree that your S-3 is perfect. However, maybe it's the network and not WEWS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12013345
> 
> 
> For the argument's sake, I'll agree that your S-3 is perfect. However, maybe it's the network and not WEWS.



Well, the S3 isn't perfect it's just the best thing out there. However I still think it's WEWS as they have problems with their newscast voice synch and other problems as noted by previous posts.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/11988074
> 
> 
> I figured out what shot down the Indians. Voodoo. Did you see what the Boston bullpen was doing when Sabathia & Carmona were pitching? Rubbing sticks togetther, making Voodoo clicking noises etc. They couldn't get the ball over the plate if they walked up to it with the Voodoo chants and noises going in the background.
> 
> JJK



Jobu is angry. Bats afraid.


----------



## BJBBJB

I am amazed that my new HR20-100 is not physically capable of receiving NBC-Channel 3 HD OTA. I guess there is a software patch that fixed this in the HR20-700 model but amazingly the bug was re-introduced in the "newer" HR20-100 model.


I am still using my trusty HD Tivo for a lot of OTA but this is unbelievable. Is this even on DTV's radar screen?


BJBBJB


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12009883
> 
> 
> Is anyone out there able to pick up any of the Pittsburgh stations OTA ? I have heard that people with an outdoor antenna in eastern Stark County may be able to do so.



I live in Salem which is 12 miles east of the Stark Co./Columbiana Co. border. I receive all of the normal power Pittsburgh stations 24/7 except WTAE-DT (ABC), which is sporadic. Their transmitter is 70 miles away, southeast of Pittsburgh.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I was looking at the Cavs schedule. A quick look count shows 29 HD games in the 82 game schedule.


Thank God for STO and WKYC, showing more than half of Indians games in HD. I'd be pissed to get the same treatment from FSO if they were still covering the Tribe.


----------



## jtscherne

Don't forget to add in the ESPN and TNT games. That'll increase the total...


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BJBBJB* /forum/post/12015178
> 
> 
> I am amazed that my new HR20-100 is not physically capable of receiving NBC-Channel 3 HD OTA. I guess there is a software patch that fixed this in the HR20-700 model but amazingly the bug was re-introduced in the "newer" HR20-100 model.
> 
> 
> I am still using my trusty HD Tivo for a lot of OTA but this is unbelievable. Is this even on DTV's radar screen?
> 
> 
> BJBBJB



I doubt it's a big priority for D* since they offer HD Lil's (NBC included) to the local Cleveland market using their dish. In Direct TV's eyes, their deliverance of HD Lil's eliminates the need for OTA locals.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BJBBJB* /forum/post/12015178
> 
> 
> I am amazed that my new HR20-100 is not physically capable of receiving NBC-Channel 3 HD OTA. I guess there is a software patch that fixed this in the HR20-700 model but amazingly the bug was re-introduced in the "newer" HR20-100 model.
> 
> 
> I am still using my trusty HD Tivo for a lot of OTA but this is unbelievable. Is this even on DTV's radar screen?
> 
> 
> BJBBJB



See my previous post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9737 


I've talked to D* a couple times about this. Both times, they have said that they input a trouble report and it would be fixed.


Unlike the above post, I do believe that they want the HR20 to function properly with OTA. That's why they "fixed" it once before and it remains fixed on the "700" version.


Please give them a call and complain. The more complaints the better. It's really a "niche" issue. Only affects those with the "100", those using OTA, and those in a market with low vhf digital station(s).


----------



## HD MM

Watching Ghost Whisperer on WOIO CBS-19.1 right now. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a huge improvement and sounds great! Thank you WOIO!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12026248
> 
> 
> Watching Ghost Whisperer on WOIO CBS-19.1 right now. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a huge improvement and sounds great! Thank you WOIO!



Many people have mentioned GW as a great show on DD 5.1. I'm so far behind on my viewing that it will take me another couple of weeks to catch up.


As a matter of fact my 500 gb eSATA is down to 68 deleted shows. While I'm not out of disk space and probably won't be I sure am glad that I can now move some shows over to my computer so I don't lose anything. Just in case. The way I keep track of disk space is by watching how many deleted shows are still around on the hard drive. Not as good as the disk meter in the cable company DVR's but it works.


So much TV....So little time.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12027353
> 
> 
> Many people have mentioned GW as a great show on DD 5.1. I'm so far behind on my viewing that it will take me another couple of weeks to catch up.
> 
> 
> As a matter of fact my 500 gb eSATA is down to 68 deleted shows. While I'm not out of disk space and probably won't be I sure am glad that I can now move some shows over to my computer so I don't lose anything. Just in case. The way I keep track of disk space is by watching how many deleted shows are still around on the hard drive. Not as good as the disk meter in the cable company DVR's but it works.
> 
> 
> So much TV....So little time.



I put a 750 gb eSATA on one of my HR20s. Cost less than $200 and provides over 100 hours of HD recording.


However, on the DBSTALK HR20 forum they have a thread on a 1.5 tb eSATA (dual 750s) box that someone has developed specifically for the HR20. That should provide plenty of archiving capability.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

is it just me or does the 5.1 mix of everything sound like a$$ on WUAB? everything sounds like its coming out of the left front and left rear speakers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/12031947
> 
> 
> is it just me or does the 5.1 mix of everything sound like a$$ on WUAB? everything sounds like its coming out of the left front and left rear speakers.



It doesn't sound that great but I'm getting sound from front left, center, front right and left rear. I can't hear anything out of the right rear speaker.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/12031947
> 
> 
> is it just me or does the 5.1 mix of everything sound like a$$ on WUAB? everything sounds like its coming out of the left front and left rear speakers.



WUAB and WOIO sound a HELL of alot better than WKYC! I checked during the news and Racheal Ray and all I heard was sound coming out of front L and R. Not a peep out of center, SL or SR. It looks like WKYC is forcing their 2 channel sound through and calling it 5.1(It says 3/2 on WKYC-HD). I liked it better when non-NBC programming was 2.0, at least I could upconvert it and actually hear what is being said. Give us a choice, WKYC!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12033835
> 
> 
> WUAB and WOIO sound a HELL of alot better than WKYC! I checked during the news and Racheal Ray and all I heard was sound coming out of front L and R. Not a peep out of center, SL or SR. It looks like WKYC is forcing their 2 channel sound through and calling it 5.1(It says 3/2 on WKYC-HD). I liked it better when non-NBC programming was 2.0, at least I could upconvert it and actually hear what is being said. Give us a choice, WKYC!



nickdawg, WKYC does not broadcast news or Rachel Ray in 5.1. Unlike WEWS WOIO and WUAB, WKYC AND WJW only turn the 5.1 on when they are broadcasting primetime shows or sports.


And as I said previously I agree that NBC shows in particular don't sound all that great on Dolby 5.1 but it depends upon the show. Las Vegas, you're sitting in the middle of the casino. Law & Order you barely hear anything out of the rear speakers. The Bionic Woman sounds great (not bad to look at either).


----------



## Smarty-pants

What is the big deal about 2.0 encoded as 2.0, or 2.0 encoded as 5.1? Can you not get your receiver to manipulate the sound with a dsp (fake surround)?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12035217
> 
> 
> What is the big deal about 2.0 encoded as 2.0, or 2.0 encoded as 5.1? Can you not get your receiver to manipulate the sound with a dsp (fake surround)?



That only works on 2.0 that's encoded as 2.0. WKYC is "false flagging" their 2.0 sound as 5.1 and nothing can be done because the receiver thinks it is really 5.1.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12035355
> 
> 
> That only works on 2.0 that's encoded as 2.0. WKYC is "false flagging" their 2.0 sound as 5.1 and nothing can be done because the receiver thinks it is really 5.1.



In a situation like this, couldn't you connect the analog L/R outs from the tuner to your amp and switch to that input to get decent 2.0 audio?


(I know it's a very inelegant workaround - I haven't yet connected my good 5.1 system to the HD tuner, so I'm kind of fumbling around in the dark. Just planning for the future when I can convince my wife we need a bunch of speakers in the living room, and knowing how things will act is good ammunition!)


mike


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12032034
> 
> 
> It doesn't sound that great but I'm getting sound from front left, center, front right and left rear. I can't hear anything out of the right rear speaker.



yea its almost like a pro logic I matrix with the left rear being used as the rear channel and the right rear not being used at all.


its bad enough that i can't sit through a show like that.


everything just sounds like its coming from the left. sound does come out of the front right spreaker, but not at the levels that it comes out of the front left.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12035217
> 
> 
> What is the big deal about 2.0 encoded as 2.0, or 2.0 encoded as 5.1? Can you not get your receiver to manipulate the sound with a dsp (fake surround)?



If I receive a 5.1 signal (3/2/1) of any sort on my receiver I cannot manipulate the sound using Dolby Pro Logic II or any other Dolby setting. The receiver recognizes that true 5.1 is correct and while you can change the settings nothing happens.


Now I may be able to manipulate the sound using one of my "Theater Affects" or "Concert Hall" type things but I'm not certain.


----------



## rlockshin

Am watching browns game on channel 19-1. Sound is showing 5.1

When did they add 5.1 DD

Or am I mistaken


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/12038328
> 
> 
> Am watching browns game on channel 19-1. Sound is showing 5.1
> 
> When did they add 5.1 DD
> 
> Or am I mistaken



roflol...dude, you really have to check in with us a bit more often. That's been the big subject this week.


----------



## nickdawg

WNEO-HD is also broadcasting in 5.1 surround.


----------



## GregF2

Have TW in Amherst, OH. Does anyone ever have problems with lipsynch delays and some macroblocking on WEWSHD? Noticed a lot on the Buckeye game last night and it is happening again tonight.


Have also noticed some macroblocking on WJWD too while watching some of the World Series last night.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12041593
> 
> 
> Have TW in Amherst, OH. Does anyone ever have problems with lipsynch delays and some macroblocking on WEWSHD? Noticed a lot on the Buckeye game last night and it is happening again tonight.



Yes, WEWSHD has a problem with lipsynch in it's HD broadcast. They have had it for some time now though not always noticeable, sometimes it's not even present. Macroblocking seems to be a pretty common occurence in almost every sports show I watch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12041272
> 
> 
> WNEO-HD is also broadcasting in 5.1 surround.



You the man, nickdawg. You must be spinning that dial and checking that 3/2/1 sign.


Put this in the category of how non observant I am. I've had my receiver for about two years now and just today I noticed that when something is in Dolby5.1 a blue light shines right under the dial. Two years it took me to notice this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12041593
> 
> 
> Have TW in Amherst, OH. Does anyone ever have problems with lipsynch delays and some macroblocking on WEWSHD? Noticed a lot on the Buckeye game last night and it is happening again tonight.



I've noticed this too. I've also noticed that the sound also seems to slightly cut out during some shows(mostly during Grey's Anatomy). Also, during the news, there are loud bursts of sound when they switch between packages or anchors. But in my opinion, WEW-HD sucks! Their HD news is HORRIBLE with the stretch-o-vision on 4:3 video and the loud bursts of sound and on other programming, the audio acts up sometimes. Where did they get their HD equipment, a yard sale? They need to get with this century.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12036279
> 
> 
> In a situation like this, couldn't you connect the analog L/R outs from the tuner to your amp and switch to that input to get decent 2.0 audio?
> 
> 
> (I know it's a very inelegant workaround - I haven't yet connected my good 5.1 system to the HD tuner, so I'm kind of fumbling around in the dark. Just planning for the future when I can convince my wife we need a bunch of speakers in the living room, and knowing how things will act is good ammunition!)
> 
> 
> mike



That is a good idea to remedy WKYC's bad audio and still get to watch their HD news. But in this case, WKYC needs to either get the right equipment to do proper 5.1 surround like WOIO has or switch back to 2.0 for non-HD like WJW does. I don't know who they think they are fooling(except my receiver-which thinks it's 5.1 and doesn't allow ProLogic)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12036279
> 
> 
> In a situation like this, couldn't you connect the analog L/R outs from the tuner to your amp and switch to that input to get decent 2.0 audio?
> 
> 
> (I know it's a very inelegant workaround - I haven't yet connected my good 5.1 system to the HD tuner, so I'm kind of fumbling around in the dark. Just planning for the future when I can convince my wife we need a bunch of speakers in the living room, and knowing how things will act is good ammunition!)
> 
> 
> mike



Actually the TiVo S3 does provide an alternative without having to move any wires. It allows you to change the sound output from "Dolby" to "analog" in the sound settings. At that point I could indeed manipulate the sound if I chose to.


I'm a bit of a purist however and I prefer leaving it at Dolby 5.1. If I'm not getting much out of the rear speakers I simply pump them up 10db each. Only if I still wasn't getting anything at that point would I consider switching the sound to analog.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12044414
> 
> 
> Actually the TiVo S3 does provide an alternative without having to move any wires. It allows you to change the sound output from "Dolby" to "analog" in the sound settings. At that point I could indeed manipulate the sound if I chose to.




I believe that any STB with optical/coax digital also has analog outputs available. In that case you would have to change to a different input on your receiver.


I think that what you are discussing is something different. All of them also give you a choice of how you want your digital sound output. It could be DD or PCM (i.e., two channel). PCM allows you to use stereo, PLII, 6 channel stereo, etc.; but it isn't analog.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12047456
> 
> 
> I believe that any STB with optical/coax digital also has analog outputs available. In that case you would have to change to a different input on your receiver.
> 
> 
> I think that what you are discussing is something different. All of them also give you a choice of how you want your digital sound output. It could be DD or PCM (i.e., two channel). PCM allows you to use stereo, PLII, 6 channel stereo, etc.; but it isn't analog.



I was incorrect in referring to it as analog, that's exactly what it is, PCM.


----------



## nickdawg

You can get analog stereo out of the regular L and R (red and white) audio outputs. Also, with most STBs with digital outputs, there is a setting to change between Dolby Digital and 2 Channel PCM. At least that's how it is on my 8300HD. Analog channels are output as PCM 48 and digital channels are 2/0, 3/2.1 or 1/0. Or it can be set to only output in PCM. Funny thing is my HD DVR came default to output in 480i only and PCM audio. I had to change the settings. That's Time Warner! LOL!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12049056
> 
> 
> You can get analog stereo out of the regular L and R (red and white) audio outputs. Also, with most STBs with digital outputs, there is a setting to change between Dolby Digital and 2 Channel PCM. At least that's how it is on my 8300HD. Analog channels are output as PCM 48 and digital channels are 2/0, 3/2.1 or 1/0. Or it can be set to only output in PCM. Funny thing is my HD DVR came default to output in 480i only and PCM audio. I had to change the settings. That's Time Warner! LOL!



When the guy first set up my old SA 8300 he didn't know how to get into the settings. Said he would come by the next day. Of course I did a web search and had it all set up by the time he returned.







That was Adelphia.


I do think that TW is a better company to deal with then Adelphia, but that just might be because now I have a connection straight into someone at head end. If I had that when it was Adelphia I might not be thinking the same.


----------



## nickdawg

Time Warner can also be a pain in the arse to deal with, especially at their customer service office. I got an 8000HD from their Akron office, one did not work at all, wouldn't even boot. The second one worked for an hour and then fried itself. Called TW, had to wait an hour for a call back and then the soonest apointment for a service call was a week later. No TV but analog and unencrypted QAM for a week. Did get a credit for the guy being late, plus a new 8300HD. And before that, I had a tech that installed a non-DVR HD box and when I asked about the HDMI he said "he didn't know what that is or how to connect it."


And my moms had to wait a week for TW to fix the tap at the street before they could hook up her cable. The person that disconnected it before broke the tap.


But you are definately lucky to have a connection at Time Warner. I still prefer Tiem Warner to satellite because at least they are local and you don't have to buy equipment.


----------



## stuart628

well looks like we will not have the colts patriots game this sunday, WOIO is the only channel not allowed to show it...which royally sucks!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12060010
> 
> 
> well looks like we will not have the colts patriots game this sunday, WOIO is the only channel not allowed to show it...which royally sucks!



I wonder why Seattle isn't blacked out too - crazy stupid blackout rules...

http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-09-CBS2.html


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12044414
> 
> 
> Actually the TiVo S3 does provide an alternative without having to move any wires. It allows you to change the sound output from "Dolby" to "analog" in the sound settings. At that point I could indeed manipulate the sound if I chose to.
> 
> 
> I'm a bit of a purist however and I prefer leaving it at Dolby 5.1. If I'm not getting much out of the rear speakers I simply pump them up 10db each. Only if I still wasn't getting anything at that point would I consider switching the sound to analog.



I have an Onlyo receiver for my DD5.1. It will momentarily mute when it switches between DD5.1 and PLII. It gets real annoying for the networks/stations that dynamically switch between surround and stereo. NBC doesn't have dynamic metadata yet so everytime we go to local break I miss the first couple syllables. Personally (as a viewer, not a station chief) I'd rather have it stuck in surround all the time than hear the hiccup in the audio. I'm guessing that anomoly is only with the Onkyo's though so I put up with it. I'm sure if it happened to other people it'd be posted here.







I've tried all the setups on the receiver with no luck.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12060270
> 
> 
> I wonder why Seattle isn't blacked out too - crazy stupid blackout rules...
> 
> http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-09-CBS2.html



see this thread, personally I think this is the dumbest thing I have heard...I am a steelers fan and would love to flip between cleveland (yes I still kinda root for them) and new england vs colts, oh well time to work on getting youngstown cbs in.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/12060276
> 
> 
> I have an Onlyo receiver for my DD5.1. It will momentarily mute when it switches between DD5.1 and PLII. It gets real annoying for the networks/stations that dynamically switch between surround and stereo. NBC doesn't have dynamic metadata yet so everytime we go to local break I miss the first couple syllables. Personally (as a viewer, not a station chief) I'd rather have it stuck in surround all the time than hear the hiccup in the audio. I'm guessing that anomoly is only with the Onkyo's though so I put up with it. I'm sure if it happened to other people it'd be posted here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried all the setups on the receiver with no luck.



Totally agree. Leave it on Dolby 5.1 all the time. If a show is 5.1 I always take it off Pro Logic II, for some reason I think it's a good idea.







I'll have to leave it on and see how mine sounds when a commercial comes on.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12060367
> 
> 
> see this thread, personally I think this is the dumbest thing I have heard...I am a steelers fan and would love to flip between cleveland (yes I still kinda root for them) and new england vs colts, oh well time to work on getting youngstown cbs in.



For those of us still viewing TV via OTA transmissions, and living in Stark County, 27-1 in Youngstown will be showing the Colts-Patriots game in HD. And best of all, we don't pay those exhorbitant satellite fees to get it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12060507
> 
> 
> Right now, WKYC is "false flagged" as 5.1 yet the sound only comes out of the L and R speakers and the volume has to be set at about 45 to 50 for decent sound. Compared to the SD channel in 2.0 that sounds great in ProLogic surround sound.



Totally disagree. It depends on the show.


The NBC shows I watched the other day, Hero's and Chuck had excellent Dolby 5.1. I didn't have to pump up the rear at all.


Now as I've said before, L&O...that needs improvement.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12060700
> 
> 
> For those of us still viewing TV via OTA transmissions, and living in Stark County, 27-1 in Youngstown will be showing the Colts-Patriots game in HD. And best of all, we don't pay those exhorbitant satellite fees to get it.



Bragger!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12060708
> 
> 
> The NBC shows I watched the other day, Hero's and Chuck had excellent Dolby 5.1. I didn't have to pump up the rear at all.
> 
> 
> Now as I've said before, L&O...that needs improvement.



I agree about L&O, the sound is very weak. Almost no surround effects and the dialog is low and hard to hear. But then again, none of the L&Os are done like CSI. Just about all of CBS's shows are awesome in surround.


My comments at 4:12 were about local programming and switching between 5.1 and 2.0. The local programming and syndicated shows, newscasts and non-HD NBC shows are "false flagged". During NBC HD shows, I've heard sound out of all the speakers, even if it's very low, so I believe all HD primetime shows are 5.1.


I've also noticed it in the morning, the Today show is in 5.1 and when WKYC switches to the SD version to show school closings, there is a DRASTIC drop in volume level. Also, the center speaker goes quiet, but the lights for the center and surround speakers stay lit up and no switch back to 2.0.


My real wish is that WKYC would upgrade their equipment to have surround on the news also, like WOIO does.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12061177
> 
> 
> IMy comments at 4:12 were about local programming and switching between 5.1 and 2.0. The local programming and syndicated shows, newscasts and non-HD NBC shows are "false flagged". During NBC HD shows, I've heard sound out of all the speakers, even if it's very low, so I believe all HD primetime shows are 5.1.
> 
> 
> I've also noticed it in the morning, the Today show is in 5.1 and when WKYC switches to the SD version to show school closings, there is a DRASTIC drop in volume level. Also, the center speaker goes quiet, but the lights for the center and surround speakers stay lit up and no switch back to 2.0.



Now we're on the same page. I have noticed that as well.


----------



## nickdawg

Whew







It was hard to describe that it's on the local programming. I'm glad it's not just my equipment.


----------



## paule123

Looks like a very good year for Cavs in HD:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/ 


FSN Ohio has stepped up to the plate with quite a few games in HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12060700
> 
> 
> For those of us still viewing TV via OTA transmissions, and living in Stark County, 27-1 in Youngstown will be showing the Colts-Patriots game in HD. And best of all, we don't pay those exhorbitant satellite fees to get it.



You don't have to be in Stark County to get WKBN-DT! I get it 24/7 in Parma (in the shadow of the WOIO tower







).


The coverage area for WKBN-DT extends as far west as Strongsville!

$5/mo for satellite locals is not exorbitant, but I don't have to pay it either. My E* 921's OTA tuner gets them all for free.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12060270
> 
> 
> I wonder why Seattle isn't blacked out too - crazy stupid blackout rules...
> 
> http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-09-CBS2.html



OK - Here is the NFL rules regarding home games and alternate games.

When a home game is broadcast, the opposite network cannot show a game, even if the opposite network has the double-header. It's not considered a black-out, as a black-out involves a home team at home not being seen.


Seattle, being a visiting team is not deprived of an alternate game on the opposite network. Seattle, being a visiting team from the NFC is why we see the Browns on FOX.


So far, Cleveland has not lost an alternate game (until now) since all our home games were either played on the network with a double header (the opposite network's game would be scheduled for 4 PM if our home game was at 1 PM).


WKBN & WYFX are not subject to this rule, so you will see different games from time to time than what we get on WOIO & WJW. If OTOH the Browns were ever to be truly blacked-out, then WKBN & WYFX would be affected, as they are inside the blackout area.


BTW this means that on some Sundays anyone getting both Cleveland and Youngstown stations may get a double header on both networks and/or different games from the same network at the same time.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Ok watching via Time Warner QAM. Since I got home today around the news, channel 8-1 (usually fox WJW), has been showing the same thing as 5-1 (which is ABC, WEWS). Therefore, I'm getting two ABC-HD channels, and no Fox-HD. No House in HD...










Anybody else?


----------



## Smarty-pants

No problems in Canton. House in HD beautiful as usual. Make sure there's not something wrong with your tuner, or even maybe they did a realignment on your system and FOX-HD is on another channel.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12063762
> 
> 
> No problems in Canton. House in HD beautiful as usual. Make sure there's not something wrong with your tuner, or even maybe they did a realignment on your system and FOX-HD is on another channel.



dammit yeah I'm going to do a rescan, but they just moved most of the digital channels like 2 weeks ago up here. I'll do it after House now so I don't miss it.


----------



## mnowlin

While we're sort of on the subject of bad audio, did anyone else have as much trouble watching The Unit tonight as I did? The analog audio sounded horrible - the sound effects and other background noise came through crystal-clear, but the dialog was muffled to the point you couldn't hear it if anything else was going on.


Watched NCIS right before The Unit, and everything on that show sounded fine. Weird.


----------



## GLuis

From today's Plain Deceiver.

http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball...330.xml&coll=2 


At least my E* will have it on.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/12066687
> 
> 
> From today's Plain Deceiver.
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball...330.xml&coll=2
> 
> 
> At least my E* will have it on.



WOW! So TW is actually saying that they want BTN for free because BTN is going to make more money in advertising and exposure by expanding their network through TW. That takes a lot of balls for TW to do that even though they've lost so many customers just over not having Buckeye games. I don't understand how TW keeps making money. They're either really smart, or really stupid.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12066802
> 
> 
> That takes a lot of balls for TW to do that even though they've lost so many customers just over not having Buckeye games. I don't understand how TW keeps making money. They're either really smart, or really stupid.



Having Big Ten network means absolutely nothing to me. But I do understand how you Ohio State fans are.


Having said that did anyone catch the news reports on TV yesterday? Apparently Columbus is thinking about passing some kind of law to allow ala carte cable. Now you talk about having balls. TW's response was that if such a law is passed they will lose advertising revenue on their other channels and they would pass that on to the consumer. So if you take only lets say 50 channels, you'll still pay the same that you're paying now.


No doubt about it they play hard ball.


----------



## skyk14

First time, long time.


Can anyone recommend a good outdoor OTA antenna? I'm located in Mayfield Heights. My indoor Terk is just not cutting it for channels 3.1 and 19.1. Also, can anyone recommend an antenna installer? Thanks!


----------



## GregF2

Does anyone know if TW and FoxSportsNetHD have settled their dispute about showing the Cavs games in HD?


It seems TW is really slow at adding new HD channels. Do you think think that moving to Direct TV would be a good idea in the Amherst area?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12061645
> 
> 
> Looks like a very good year for Cavs in HD:
> 
> http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/
> 
> 
> FSN Ohio has stepped up to the plate with quite a few games in HD.


----------



## skyk14




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12067002
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if TW and FoxSportsNetHD have settled their dispute about showing the Cavs games in HD?
> 
> 
> It seems TW is really slow at adding new HD channels. Do you think think that moving to Direct TV would be a good idea in the Amherst area?



I switched from cable to satellite (Dish) 5 years ago and couldn't be happier. The equipment blows cable out of the water....i do miss VOD, though.


----------



## hookbill

Personally I think D* is fine, I know nothing about E* other then they got sued by TiVo for copyright infringement on their DVR.


Here's the problem with TW and HD vs D*:


Right now there are several different lineups in the area for TW. Most of this is because Adelphia never bothered to put everyone on the same line up. They've got to figure out how to do that then they will probably go to Switch Digital Video. Once they do that it will be much easier to add HD channels. They will have a great deal more bandwith.


TW knows they have to keep up and in other areas they are, just not ours. Although I have to admit why the CW hasn't been added yet is a mystery. It's not like they are "out" of bandwith now.


I wouldn't be surprised also if come 2009 TW doesn't move it's analog channels to digital. They've been playing around with that for a while now. The reason I say 2009 is because thats when all OTA goes digital and for those who just have analog now TW would be able to push their weight around. "Hey, you gotta get a digital converter if you drop us. Might as well get ours."


Cable companies, in general are very clever. This is all speculation on my part but I can see it happening.


----------



## schandorsky

Is the The Big Ten Network in HD, If not what's the point.


----------



## HD MM

Modified The Cleveland HD List to add NBA TV-HD and NHL Network-HD to the D* and E* count.


It appears that NHL Network-HD will be found in both providers standard HD tier. As for NBA TV-HD, it is being rumored that E* will keep it in their standard HD tier for now while D* will probably have it in their HD Sports pack tier. D* is however giving a "free" month preview of NBA TV-HD on channel 601. The first HD game is this Sunday featuring your Cleveland Cavaliers @ Phoenix Suns. Please also note that locally, the game will also be on FSN OH-HD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12067241
> 
> 
> Is the The Big Ten Network in HD, If not what's the point.



Of course. BTN-HD is available on D* and E*.


at&t U-verse also has BTN, however only in lowly SD.


----------



## jtscherne

Yes it is. Both Dish and DirecTV offer the primary game and all alternate games in HD.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12067241
> 
> 
> Is the The Big Ten Network in HD, If not what's the point.


----------



## MusicAngel99

I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/12067568
> 
> 
> I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think
> 
> 
> Thanks!



If you saw the Raiders in HD, you wern't in our area.










Pittsburgh was in HD and maybe one other game. The next two weeks will be in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

The Oakland game was not in HD. So far, Pittsburgh and New England were in HD (I don't remember about any others so far).


This week's game is on Fox and should be in HD.


CBS does not publish their HD schedule far in advance. I expect the following to probably be in HD: Pittsburgh, New York Jets (I know they stink, but it's New York). San Francisco will be on Fox so should be in HD too.


Maybe if the Browns continue to win we'll see more in HD too.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/12067568
> 
> 
> I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think
> 
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MusicAngel99* /forum/post/12067568
> 
> 
> I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think
> 
> 
> Thanks!



CBS only announces their HD plans 3 weeks at a time.


see here: http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl 


Anyways, as far as we can tell, this weeks game (Week 9) will be in HD on Fox as well as next week (Week 10) against Pittsburgh on CBS-HD.


----------



## MusicAngel99

Ooops I meant the Patriots not the Raiders sorry.

Thanks so much for your quick replies! Very helpful here as always when I check in!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12067213
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised also if come 2009 TW doesn't move it's analog channels to digital. They've been playing around with that for a while now. The reason I say 2009 is because thats when all OTA goes digital and for those who just have analog now TW would be able to push their weight around. "Hey, you gotta get a digital converter if you drop us. Might as well get ours."
> 
> 
> Cable companies, in general are very clever. This is all speculation on my part but I can see it happening.



Analog channels should of been dropped years ago. TW should start picking up the pace now. Why do we need three shopping channels, two church channels and several Time Warner advertising/propaganda channels all on the analog tier?


With HD/digital converter boxes going on sale soon, now would be the perfect time to drop all analog channels and switch to unencrypted QAM for these channels. But then they would also have to clean house in the QAM department because they are all on strange channels, like WEW-HD is on 104.2. Either change the QAM numbers so they match the regular channel number or map the channels to regular numbers like over the air digital TV.


But then again, that would be too much to ask of Time Warner. So instead, we have a cable system set up to benefit every billy bob watching on their 1985 off-brand 19" TV and the HD customers only get a few channels.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12072741
> 
> 
> Analog channels should of been dropped years ago. TW should start picking up the pace now. Why do we need three shopping channels, two church channels and several Time Warner advertising/propaganda channels all on the analog tier?
> 
> 
> With HD/digital converter boxes going on sale soon, now would be the perfect time to drop all analog channels and switch to unencrypted QAM for these channels. But then they would also have to clean house in the QAM department because they are all on strange channels, like WEW-HD is on 104.2. Either change the QAM numbers so they match the regular channel number or map the channels to regular numbers like over the air digital TV.
> 
> 
> But then again, that would be too much to ask of Time Warner. So instead, we have a cable system set up to benefit every billy bob watching on their 1985 off-brand 19" TV and the HD customers only get a few channels.



Nice post. Couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## rlockshin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyk14* /forum/post/12066928
> 
> 
> First time, long time.
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good outdoor OTA antenna? I'm located in Mayfield Heights. My indoor Terk is just not cutting it for channels 3.1 and 19.1. Also, can anyone recommend an antenna installer? Thanks!



I and others on this site have used with success,Cleveland Antenna Service.

Call Jim West at 440-237-6888.

You will be happy. He will send out his son Joel


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12072741
> 
> 
> Analog channels should of been dropped years ago. TW should start picking up the pace now. Why do we need three shopping channels, two church channels and several Time Warner advertising/propaganda channels all on the analog tier?



The two church channels are likely "Must Carry" channels so TWC doesn't have much say there. The shopping channels are there to help keep your cable bill lower.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12072741
> 
> 
> With HD/digital converter boxes going on sale soon, now would be the perfect time to drop all analog channels and switch to unencrypted QAM for these channels.



I would be very surprised if the cheap tuner boxes included QAM demodulators.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12072741
> 
> 
> But then again, that would be too much to ask of Time Warner. So instead, we have a cable system set up to benefit every billy bob watching on their 1985 off-brand 19" TV and the HD customers only get a few channels.



You've hit the nail on the head. This is cable's leg up on the competition. You can plug in pretty much every TV/VCR to their line and you're ready to go. This is also where cable will win in 2009 when people decided not to buy converter boxes and drop ~$15 a month on "lifeline" cable.


----------



## lefkas

Speaking of the ineffectiveness of TWC, when are they going to drop the PowerPoint slide announcing that the Tube Network is no longer operating and actually put on a channel people can watch in that slot ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12079865
> 
> 
> Speaking of the ineffectiveness of TWC, when are they going to drop the PowerPoint slide announcing that the Tube Network is no longer operating and actually put on a channel people can watch in that slot ?



I mentioned a few weeks ago I was having some problems getting Tribune Media ( www.zap2it.com ) to make changes to add our new TW channels for my S3. I mentioned the issue with Tube Network as well.


Last week end they finally gave me screen data for TBSHD and FBN, but they still haven't removed Tube.


So probably TW has told them it's not removed yet. Therfore your slide...


----------



## kris926




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12065696
> 
> 
> While we're sort of on the subject of bad audio, did anyone else have as much trouble watching The Unit tonight as I did? The analog audio sounded horrible - the sound effects and other background noise came through crystal-clear, but the dialog was muffled to the point you couldn't hear it if anything else was going on.
> 
> 
> Watched NCIS right before The Unit, and everything on that show sounded fine. Weird.



I noticed the problem on The Unit and last night on Criminal Minds. I was watching from my TWC DVR so I could not check if it was a TWC problem or a feed problem. Did anyone else notice this on OTA or satellite?


----------



## BJBBJB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris926* /forum/post/12081392
> 
> 
> I noticed the problem on The Unit and last night on Criminal Minds. I was watching from my TWC DVR so I could not check if it was a TWC problem or a feed problem. Did anyone else notice this on OTA or satellite?



I also noticed this on an OTA HD Tivo recording of the last CSI-Miami episode. It was VERY bad. Same thing, muffled dialogue like the center channel was ramped way down...


The Unit was bad also.

BJBBJB


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kris926* /forum/post/12081392
> 
> 
> I noticed the problem on The Unit and last night on Criminal Minds. I was watching from my TWC DVR so I could not check if it was a TWC problem or a feed problem. Did anyone else notice this on OTA or satellite?



No audio problems for "Criminal Minds" last night on OTA from Youngstown (27-1). Maybe it was a Channel 19 problem.


----------



## jtscherne

Why should we assume that? Channel 19 is so well run! NOT!!!!


I've put their news on occasionally just to see how their HD & 5.1 is going and it drives me crazy. Whenever they come back from a break, they play this incredibly loud gong sound that is louder than everything else.


It wouldn't surprise me that they might be still having audio issues...


----------



## hookbill

OK guys, you got me curious. I'm two weeks behind watching shows and I still haven't heard a Dolby 5.1 CBS show. I decided to have a brief "look and listen" of all the shows mentioned.


I'm receiving WOIO via TW and for whatever reason I did not hear any problems with the center channel. Which makes me quite happy of course, but if OTA people are receiving a bad signal you would think I should too.


Don't know what else to say. No problem here.


----------



## JJkizak

People are forgetting a lot of technical things here---path intermodulation distortion, low power output, phasing problems, multipath, how many 5.1 settings on your receiver? National satellite feed encoders? Cable encoders? Older mux equipment?, New equipment with bugs? Cheating on bandwidth to make more money? First it was HD (100 meg bandwidth) then that wasn't economical so now it's HDV (15-25meg bandwidth) and now AVCHD, cheaper yet. The bean counters are winning.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12087025
> 
> 
> People are forgetting a lot of technical things here---path intermodulation distortion, low power output, phasing problems, multipath, how many 5.1 settings on your receiver? National satellite feed encoders? Cable encoders? Older mux equipment?, New equipment with bugs? Cheating on bandwidth to make more money? First it was HD (100 meg bandwidth) then that wasn't economical so now it's HDV (15-25meg bandwidth) and now AVCHD, cheaper yet. The bean counters are winning.
> 
> JJK




If someone can translate what this dude just said, I'd be awful appreciative.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BJBBJB* /forum/post/12081475
> 
> 
> I also noticed this on an OTA HD Tivo recording of the last CSI-Miami episode. It was VERY bad. Same thing, muffled dialogue like the center channel was ramped way down...
> 
> 
> The Unit was bad also.
> 
> BJBBJB




The sound on The Unit, Criminal Minds, and Bones was all screwed up. My 8300 runs into my onk 805... I had to bump the center by 7 db just to watch the show. It seems that it is only a few shows, the music and effects just seem to drown out the center speaker. Very Disapointing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/12087520
> 
> 
> The sound on The Unit, Criminal Minds, and Bones was all screwed up. My 8300 runs into my onk 805... I had to bump the center by 7 db just to watch the show. It seems that it is only a few shows, the music and effects just seem to drown out the center speaker. Very Disapointing.




Bones is on a different network. Everybody was talking about CBS, or rather WOIO.


SA 8300, huh? Well, even I can't complain about how it translated sound. That is when it bothered to record something.


----------



## k2rj

I've also noticed a lot of sound issues with 19 since their switch to Dolby 5.1. The dialogue being drowned out by the "background" music on many (not all) shows seems to be a common thread. The big difference in audio levels between the program and (locally-inserted) commercials is my (wife's) biggest gripe, however. You have to constantly adjust the volume or get completely blown out of the room during commercial breaks.


It would be nice if someone from the station(s) actually watched/listened with a home theatre system so they could perform their own quality control!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/12094119
> 
> 
> I've also noticed a lot of sound issues with 19 since their switch to Dolby 5.1. The dialogue being drowned out by the "background" music on many (not all) shows seems to be a common thread. The big difference in audio levels between the program and (locally-inserted) commercials is my (wife's) biggest gripe, however. You have to constantly adjust the volume or get completely blown out of the room during commercial breaks.
> 
> 
> It would be nice if someone from the station(s) actually watched/listened with a home theatre system so they could perform their own quality control!



Caution: Sarcasam Ahead










For years it has been a common practice for many television stations, not just WOIO to blast commercials. Now taking a look at WOIO's policy of "who gives a crap about what the viewer wants" would you expect anything less?


Do you honestly think that sound engineers that work there don't have home theaters? Of course they do.


So if it sounds good on my home system why does it not sound good on yours? I have no idea but the fact that it does means to me anyway that the issue is probably one of the many factors that JJkizak pointed out.


Which still no one has taken the time to explain to me.


----------



## nickdawg

Someone at WOIO with HDTV and a home theater system? LMMFAO!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12098209
> 
> 
> Someone at WOIO with HDTV and a home theater system? LMMFAO!



Hey dude. Whatcha laughing at. Apparently you didn't read my post about running into one of their remote trucks at a GetGo. The guy I talked to said he had HD and he thought channel 19's picture sucked.










He didn't say if he had surround sound. I was bugging him as to when they were going to get it. Apparently he was clueless as they had it next week.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12079865
> 
> 
> Speaking of the ineffectiveness of TWC, when are they going to drop the PowerPoint slide announcing that the Tube Network is no longer operating and actually put on a channel people can watch in that slot ?



I get my locals OTA and that "Power Point slide" is still being broadcast on "WUAB 43-2".

BTW: seeing how this is coming from the WUAB control room it's probably not a Power Point slide, more likely it's generated by a Chyron.


As the slide says "don't call your cable operator".


Some day the engineering gang at Reserve Square will get around to pulling 43-2 of the air. It should not be a big deal, WEAO/WNEO switches their subchannels on and off all the time.


Speaking of subchannels, I wonder when WBNX will get around to putting something on 55-2. I've scanned them several times and 55-2 keeps showing up but with nothing on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12108518
> 
> 
> I get my locals OTA and that "Power Point slide" is still being broadcast on "WUAB 43-2".
> 
> BTW: seeing how this is coming from the WUAB control room it's probably not a Power Point slide, more likely it's generated by a Chyron.
> 
> 
> As the slide says "don't call your cable operator".



So if that's the case why doesn't TW just pull the darn channel? Seems like a waste of bandwith to me. I know it's not HD but still.....


The fact that Raycom doesn't mind wasting power to display that slide is quite frankly puzzling. Their reputation for "cheap" is well known.


----------



## HD MM

Well folks.... I think we have a new standard in HD College Football coverage. And the honor definitely goes to the Big Ten Network. They even showed the entire pregame festivities including one of the best traditions in college football; "Script Ohio" and dotting of the "I" to the tune of OSU's band playing "Across the Field." I had the Polks blaring! What a sight! PQ is one of the best I've seen for sports coverage. Way better than any other ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX or ESPN broadcast I've ever seen. Kudos to the BTN.


Go Bucks!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12108572
> 
> 
> So if that's the case why doesn't TW just pull the darn channel? Seems like a waste of bandwith to me. I know it's not HD but still.....



Exactly. The bandwidth being wasted to show Raycom's "PowerPoint Slide" could be used to finally give us WBNX-HD. Get with it, Time Warner, even AT&T's new video service has that channel.


And while we're at WUAB, it would be a good idea for WOIO to drop their weather channel on 19-2 and move it to 43-2. WUAB has no HD programming except for the news. So it would not be as bog of a deal to split the bandwidth of 43. WOIO has CBS Sports and CBS programming, most of which is HD. 19-1 has looked bad since they started that weather channel.


----------



## stuart628

anyone else not getting abc? I have no signal on it whatsoever with 80-90 on the rest.

never mind my tv has 70% signal my vip722 has 0 on abc only for some reason


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12113613
> 
> 
> anyone else not getting abc? I have no signal on it whatsoever with 80-90 on the rest.



5-1 is working ok here. Sorry to hear you're not receiving. I heard today the Michigan vs. Michigan St. game (showing on ABC now) is a high profile game (even more so than Michigan vs. OSU) because most of the players know eachother and many are rivals.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/12113683
> 
> 
> I heard today the Michigan vs. Michigan St. game (showing on ABC now) is a high profile game (even more so than Michigan vs. OSU) because most of the players know eachother and many are rivals.



To keep it on topic, ABC-HD was coming in fine on Armstrong Cable in Medina.


As for the rivaly, both of my parents went to Michigan State, and for them, this was always the big game. It took 25+ years for them to admit that OSU-UM has become a bigger rivalry (both to the schools and the country). But I hear that the new coach for MSU is trying to reinvigorate the in-state hatred between the schools. Too bad the team couldn't hang on at the end, though. That would have helped.


----------



## nickdawg

I have a question about the picture quality on WBNX-SD on Time Warner digital cable. It looks like an over compressed digital channel, but I've also noticed some ghosting, especially with white text or logos on a dark background as well as diagonal stripes through the picture.


----------



## Smarty-pants

SD = crap


nuf said.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12110218
> 
> 
> Well folks.... I think we have a new standard in HD College Football coverage. And the honor definitely goes to the Big Ten Network. They even showed the entire pregame festivities including one of the best traditions in college football; "Script Ohio" and dotting of the "I" to the tune of OSU's band playing "Across the Field." I had the Polks blaring! What a sight! PQ is one of the best I've seen for sports coverage. Way better than any other ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX or ESPN broadcast I've ever seen. Kudos to the BTN.
> 
> 
> Go Bucks!



Big Ten HD does a nice job. I watched the OSU game and a couple other HD games on the BTN HD alternates on DirecTV today and they looked great.


Note to self: cancel WOW video service next week since they don't have BTN HD let alone any HD alternates


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

Sorry for the rant, but I would need a PBS special with all the flow charts to explain the present state of HD variables which would help me also.

JJK


----------



## rick490

Before we give BTN too much credit! I watch the OSU game on E and several times they were late coming back from commercials. One touchdown would have been missed completely except for replays.


Go Bucks


----------



## paule123

My compliments to WOIO for the much improved PQ on Tailgate 19, the Browns pregame show. 16:9 SD (not stretched) from the bar and from the muni lot ! It still looks a little weird with some visible horizontal scan lines (480i upconvert ? ), but it's way better than what they used to have.


By comparison, WKYC's pregame show from their studio STO desk with Jim Donovan looked quite a bit worse. SD stretchovision.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12116150
> 
> 
> I have a question about the picture quality on WBNX-SD on Time Warner digital cable. It looks like an over compressed digital channel, but I've also noticed some ghosting, especially with white text or logos on a dark background as well as diagonal stripes through the picture.



You might really be pleased with the hi-def version of CW. We've been watching episodes of "The Reaper" and "Smallville" and the hi-def picture via ota is one of the best of all the hi-def sources I've seen.


----------



## Rbuchina

Did anyone notice that WOIO showed the end of the Patriots/Colts game Sunday evening while the Browns were in overtime? So how does that happen if the Cleveland market was not suppose to recieve it? Our local WOIO engineer was asleep at the booth since the game was in SD instead of HD, so the proverbial switch was not switched.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/12130320
> 
> 
> Did anyone notice that WOIO showed the end of the Patriots/Colts game Sunday evening while the Browns were in overtime? So how does that happen if the Cleveland market was not suppose to recieve it? Our local WOIO engineer was asleep at the booth since the game was in SD instead of HD, so the proverbial switch was not switched.
> 
> 
> 
> Ray



I don't understand. Are you saying they switched briefly and then got back to the Browns game? Or they swithced and then left it in SD?


If you're saying they switched and did not show the rest of the game I find that very hard to believe. I didn't watch until the end as I'm not a Browns fan but I'm sure someone would have reported that either here earlier or at least it would have turned up at Ohio Media Watch. That would have been a big deal and no mention of it anywhere except your post.


----------



## Rbuchina

Hook,


The Browns were on FOX Sunday and the 4PM CBS game was not suppose to be shown here in Cleveland. During a time out in overtime of the Browns game I switched over to WOIO and they had the last few minutes of the Pats/Colts game on.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/12130923
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> The Browns were on FOX Sunday and the 4PM CBS game was not suppose to be shown here in Cleveland. During a time out in overtime of the Browns game I switched over to WOIO and they had the last few minutes of the Pats/Colts game on.
> 
> 
> Ray




See. All it takes is for someone to spell it out to me. Doh!!!!!!


God, I'm an idiot.


----------



## Michael P 2341

That explains why all the CBS programming was delayed equally on both WOIO and WKBN. I was expecting to see an on-time CBS feed on WOIO since they did not show the game.


When CBS has the "single header" there are 2 different CBS prime time feeds; one on time (for the stations that showed an early game) and one delayed (for those stations that showed a late game). Since CBS had a double header, they did not start 60 minutes on time for the few stations that were blocked from showing the Pats/Colts game.


BTW: when there is 2 separate Sunday prime time CBS feeds, only one of them are in HD.


For anybody who gets WKBN-DT, did you notice that they lost audio (both on the game and the commercials) in the middle of the game? I was switching between WJW and WKBN during the Browns game (why watch commercials when the super-hyped "GOTY" was on?).


BTW2: When football runs over on FOX they truncate the regular prime-time schedule (there was an old "Simpsons" "Tree house of Horror" episode that they cut in half to get back on schedule). I guess CBS thinks "60 Minutes" is too important to truncate (they don't want to rename it "37.5 minutes"







)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12131649
> 
> 
> That explains why all the CBS programming was delayed equally on both WOIO and WKBN. I was expecting to see an on-time CBS feed on WOIO since they did not show the game.
> 
> 
> When CBS has the "single header" there are 2 different CBS prime time feeds; one on time (for the stations that showed an early game) and one delayed (for those stations that showed a late game). Since CBS had a double header, they did not start 60 minutes on time for the few stations that were blocked from showing the Pats/Colts game.
> 
> 
> BTW: when there is 2 separate Sunday prime time CBS feeds, only one of them are in HD.
> 
> 
> For anybody who gets WKBN-DT, did you notice that they lost audio (both on the game and the commercials) in the middle of the game? I was switching between WJW and WKBN during the Browns game (why watch commercials when the super-hyped "GOTY" was on?).
> 
> 
> BTW2: When football runs over on FOX they truncate the regular prime-time schedule (there was an old "Simpsons" "Tree house of Horror" episode that they cut in half to get back on schedule). I guess CBS thinks "60 Minutes" is too important to truncate (they don't want to rename it "37.5 minutes"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Oh crap. I thought for sure that everything would start on time so I didn't extend the 10:00 pm show recording on WOIO. That was Shark I suppose. That sucks.


----------



## jtscherne

Gotta keep track of double header Sundays. In this case, I'm sure 19 switched at the time 60 minutes was supposed to start and got the end of the football game instead.


----------



## lefkas

"For anybody who gets WKBN-DT, did you notice that they lost audio (both on the game and the commercials) in the middle of the game? I was switching between WJW and WKBN during the Browns game (why watch commercials when the super-hyped "GOTY" was on?)."


Yes, I noticed that too. Thought it was my TV or tuner until I switched over to 27-2, which was carrying the Browns game and the sound was fine. It was very convenient to watch Indy-NE in HD on 27-1 OTA and flip to 27-2 for the Bowns during commercials or slower parts of the game.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12131649
> 
> 
> BTW: when there are 2 separate Sunday prime time CBS feeds, only one of them is in HD.



The "late" feed was in HD (I watched Cold Case and recorded Shark via manual time setting.) It used to be that the "on-time" feed was HD. Maybe they sprung for 2 HD feeds this season?


----------



## Lighting Guy

Info about the writer's strike if you haven't heard about it yet

Although this isn't specific to HD, its mostly prime time shows which are in HD so...


Late-night during strike: No laughing matter
http://tv.yahoo.com/saturday-night-l...s_dc__ER:33067 


I'm on Strike! (Thank God, I've Got a Day Job)
http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/11/im_o...od_ive_got.php


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/12134670
> 
> 
> Info about the writer's strike if you haven't heard about it yet
> 
> Although this isn't specific to HD, its mostly prime time shows which are in HD so...
> 
> 
> Late-night during strike: No laughing matter
> http://tv.yahoo.com/saturday-night-l...s_dc__ER:33067
> 
> 
> I'm on Strike! (Thank God, I've Got a Day Job)
> http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/11/im_o...od_ive_got.php



Yeah, I was hoping it would be a short strike but it doesn't look that way.










Oh well, I'm probably going back to work in a few weeks, full time and it may be nights so I won't be watching as much tv anyways.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12131649
> 
> 
> That explains why all the CBS programming was delayed equally on both WOIO and WKBN. I was expecting to see an on-time CBS feed on WOIO since they did not show the game.
> 
> 
> When CBS has the "single header" there are 2 different CBS prime time feeds; one on time (for the stations that showed an early game) and one delayed (for those stations that showed a late game). Since CBS had a double header, they did not start 60 minutes on time for the few stations that were blocked from showing the Pats/Colts game.
> 
> 
> BTW: when there is 2 separate Sunday prime time CBS feeds, only one of them are in HD.
> 
> 
> For anybody who gets WKBN-DT, did you notice that they lost audio (both on the game and the commercials) in the middle of the game? I was switching between WJW and WKBN during the Browns game (why watch commercials when the super-hyped "GOTY" was on?).
> 
> 
> BTW2: When football runs over on FOX they truncate the regular prime-time schedule (there was an old "Simpsons" "Tree house of Horror" episode that they cut in half to get back on schedule). I guess CBS thinks "60 Minutes" is too important to truncate (they don't want to rename it "37.5 minutes"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



"Family Guy" and "American Dad" I recorded started on time. I wish "Cold Case" and "Shark" did too. A good show for CBS to cut would be The Amazing Race. That show is way overdue for cancellation!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12134979
> 
> 
> "Family Guy" and "American Dad" I recorded started on time. I wish "Cold Case" and "Shark" did too. A good show for CBS to cut would be The Amazing Race. That show is way overdue for cancellation!



Ummm...dude did you not see the post about the writers strike?










Here's a better thread to get an idea of what might happen. It appears that primetime shows will make it to the end of the season.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/1...ike/index.html


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/12133035
> 
> 
> The "late" feed was in HD (I watched Cold Case and recorded Shark via manual time setting.) It used to be that the "on-time" feed was HD. Maybe they sprung for 2 HD feeds this season?



All there was last night was one late feed. Because 98% of the country had NE @ IND, and Houston had Hou @ SD (SD was balcked out so every California DMA had to flip to NE/IND). That left WOIO as the only CBS affiliate not showing a late game. If CBS was to provide an "on time" feed for WOIO it would not have been in HD (or if they did have a feed WOIO chose to cheat by showing the tail end of the NE/IND game). At least everyone got the HD feed that way.


----------



## orange5814

Is anyone experiencing "popping" noises on WKYC right now. I have been trying to watch the 6 o'clock news, and now NBC news and the sound is aweful. It appears to be only on TW 703. Any thoughts???


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/12148159
> 
> 
> Is anyone experiencing "popping" noises on WKYC right now. I have been trying to watch the 6 o'clock news, and now NBC news and the sound is aweful. It appears to be only on TW 703. Any thoughts???



Yes! I am experiencing the same noises too. I thought it was something wrong with my system. I'm getting it over OTA.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/12148346
> 
> 
> Yes! I am experiencing the same noises too. I thought it was something wrong with my system. I'm getting it over OTA.



Bad weather sometimes affects digital broadcasts. There has been a lot of thunder and lightning. I suspect that may be the culpret.


Fox 8 news was fine.


Edit: Just thought about it, WKYC is also on a VHF frequency. Probably another reason why it might be more weather sensitive.


----------



## nickdawg

Today's d-bag award goes to WKYC for shutting off the HD version of L&O SVU to show election results that are not even complete yet.







They should wait till the 11pm news, there will be more accurate number by then.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12150371
> 
> 
> Today's d-bag award goes to WKYC for shutting off the HD version of L&O SVU to show election results that are not even complete yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should wait till the 11pm news, there will be more accurate number by then.



Totally agree. My already small 19" LCD was about 15" at best.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12150371
> 
> 
> Today's d-bag award goes to WKYC for shutting off the HD version of L&O SVU to show election results that are not even complete yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They should wait till the 11pm news, there will be more accurate number by then.



I would like to see daily D-BAG awards in this particular forum. I have to watch SD, and I don't even get to see the election results that I want. Kinda interesting how they get rid of the results for the commercials though, is'nt it... Gotta keep that cash rollin' in. D-BAGS


----------



## hookbill

I noticed the other day that WEWS was putting news info on the bottom of the screen without going to SD. I don't know quite how they did it but it appeared to stay on HD on the top while delivering the message.


Still didn't look great but better then the SD side bar thing.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12151592
> 
> 
> I noticed the other day that WEWS was putting news info on the bottom of the screen without going to SD. I don't know quite how they did it but it appeared to stay on HD on the top while delivering the message.
> 
> 
> Still didn't look great but better then the SD side bar thing.



I caught that too. I cannot remember what I was watching at the time but I was surprized to see the ticker going by without a drop in audio from 5.1 and a drop in video from HD to SD.


Ray


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12151592
> 
> 
> I noticed the other day that WEWS was putting news info on the bottom of the screen without going to SD. I don't know quite how they did it but it appeared to stay on HD on the top while delivering the message.
> 
> 
> Still didn't look great but better then the SD side bar thing.



IIRC, WJW has done that since I got HDTV last year.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/12152484
> 
> 
> I caught that too. I cannot remember what I was watching at the time but I was surprized to see the ticker going by without a drop in audio from 5.1 and a drop in video from HD to SD.
> 
> 
> Ray



If I recall, I think that during Jeopardy they run a ticker at the bottom with lotto results or something like that. I think it is a green colored ticker. You are correct though, it stays HD the whole time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12151592
> 
> 
> I noticed the other day that WEWS was putting news info on the bottom of the screen without going to SD. I don't know quite how they did it but it appeared to stay on HD on the top while delivering the message.
> 
> 
> Still didn't look great but better then the SD side bar thing.



WEWS also does it during GMA, the overlay their own news crawl over the HD version of GMA. I've also seen it in prime time to run weather advisories instead of switching back to SD. I'm really impressed by WEWS on this. It's better that they put their graphic over the HD version and just center cut it for SD instead of forcing the HD channel back to SD. The election results during Boston Legal were awesome, because they had a larger picture and the color side bars. L&O was a microscopic picture in the middle of black space.



> Quote:
> WJW has done that since I got HDTV last year.



I don't recall ever seeing this on WJW. They still go back to SD for weather warnings/maps. I have seen school closings over their local originated contnet, though.


----------



## Norm78

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this, but I received a post card from Time Warner Cable last weekend detailing a few price changes effective Dec 1st.


Digital Converters decrease from 7.65/mo to 7.21/mo

Remotes increase from .30/mo to .31/mo

HDTV DVR boxes decrease from 8.65/mo to 7.21/mo

HBO or SHO decrease from 15.95/mo to 12.00/mo

DRV service is 6.95/mo


I switched to HDTV DVR from Digital DVR and kept the same internet. It ended up being about 6.00/mo cheaper than what I was originally paying. Now I can only hope they start adding more HD channels. I am inclined to think this is in response to TW customers not being able to get B10 and NFLN and customers switching to DTV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/12161589
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this, but I received a post card from Time Warner Cable last weekend detailing a few price changes effective Dec 1st.
> 
> 
> Digital Converters decrease from 7.65/mo to 7.21/mo
> 
> Remotes increase from .30/mo to .31/mo
> 
> HDTV DVR boxes decrease from 8.65/mo to 7.21/mo
> 
> HBO or SHO decrease from 15.95/mo to 12.00/mo
> 
> DRV service is 6.95/mo
> 
> 
> I switched to HDTV DVR from Digital DVR and kept the same internet. It ended up being about 6.00/mo cheaper than what I was originally paying. Now I can only hope they start adding more HD channels. I am inclined to think this is in response to TW customers not being able to get B10 and NFLN and customers switching to DTV.



Don't read too much into it. TW has been sending things like this out to various groups in our area for a bit. They are trying to get everyone on the same pricing plan.


Yes, someone on the west side may pay more/less then someone on the east side.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Watching FSNO SD feed off E*, the wide shot of the court looked terrible. I believe E* used too much compression, however I do not have another source to compare.


Those of you with cable or D* did it look bad to you as well? Was this game in HD? It's possible that it was HD and downrezzed for the SD feed.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## nosey313

I've seen some postings on the subject, but haven't seen any resolution. I'm watching CBS on my Sony KDL-40XBR2 through a SA8300DVR via Time Warner Macedonia. I have been having the audio problems with some shows over the last few weeks. The Unit, Cane, etc. I'm just using the audio through my TV, no surround sound, no receiver. I get the low dialog with loud background audio. Has anyone heard of the issue or a possible solution? Any info is appreciated.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12162599
> 
> 
> Watching FSNO SD feed off E*, the wide shot of the court looked terrible. I believe E* used too much compression, however I do not have another source to compare.
> 
> 
> Those of you with cable or D* did it look bad to you as well? Was this game in HD? It's possible that it was HD and downrezzed for the SD feed.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



It looked decent on FSN, nothing I wouldn't expect for an SD broadcast. I watched the game on ESPN (obviously, because it was in HD, FSN didn't put out HD for this one, but I was impressed with the PQ for the FSN HD broadcast when the Cavs were in Phoenix).


----------



## mnowlin

Let the experiment begin... After my 8300HDC once again failed to record two of my wife's shows within three days, I got an angry "How do we fix this???" (I was waiting for that.)








Finally have her OK to get a Tivo HD (or Series 3 - still debating.)


Called TWC's customer service number to ask about CableCards. They looked up my account and told me I could just drop by the local (Akron) office and pick them up. Of course, things are never as simple as they seem. Drove over there, stood in line, and got a blank stare when I asked about the cards. The CSR asked a few other people if they knew anything about CableCards - finally figured out they didn't stock them in the office, and there was a form to fill out requesting that someone call you to schedule a technician visit - they found the form about 20 minutes later (it's a web page on their internal site). Three days later (today), they called, and I have an appointment a week from now to have the cards installed.


Time to decide which Tivo I want - looks like I have until Monday or so to allow for activation time....


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/12164703
> 
> 
> I've seen some postings on the subject, but haven't seen any resolution. I'm watching CBS on my Sony KDL-40XBR2 through a SA8300DVR via Time Warner Macedonia. I have been having the audio problems with some shows over the last few weeks. The Unit, Cane, etc. I'm just using the audio through my TV, no surround sound, no receiver. I get the low dialog with loud background audio. Has anyone heard of the issue or a possible solution? Any info is appreciated.



I just sent an email to Bob Maupin (Chief Engineer at WOIO) asking about this. I'll let everyone know what I hear from him.


----------



## Norm78

As I mentioned before I have TW bring out an HDTV DVR on sat. morning. I've always been aware of the SA 8300HD, but when I asked the CSR at TW she also mentioned that the tech may have a Pioneer HDTV DVR that I could choose from. Has anyone had any experience with this STB?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/12167181
> 
> 
> As I mentioned before I have TW bring out an HDTV DVR on sat. morning. I've always been aware of the SA 8300HD, but when I asked the CSR at TW she also mentioned that the tech may have a Pioneer HDTV DVR that I could choose from. Has anyone had any experience with this STB?




I never heard of it. And I doubt she knew what she was talking about. See above post about CSR experience.


Oh and if you experience some minor problems with the SA 8300, like not recording what you want or partial only recordings, major macro blocking and frequent pixelation, sound drop offs that start to drive you nuts, then look into the HD TiVo. Not as expensive as the S3 but a nice alternative.


Then you can bring the SA 8300 back to TW. I suggest tie it with a rope to the bumper of your car (see my signature).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12166537
> 
> 
> Let the experiment begin... After my 8300HDC once again failed to record two of my wife's shows within three days, I got an angry "How do we fix this???" (I was waiting for that.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally have her OK to get a Tivo HD (or Series 3 - still debating.)
> 
> 
> Called TWC's customer service number to ask about CableCards. They looked up my account and told me I could just drop by the local (Akron) office and pick them up. Of course, things are never as simple as they seem. Drove over there, stood in line, and got a blank stare when I asked about the cards. The CSR asked a few other people if they knew anything about CableCards - finally figured out they didn't stock them in the office, and there was a form to fill out requesting that someone call you to schedule a technician visit - they found the form about 20 minutes later (it's a web page on their internal site). Three days later (today), they called, and I have an appointment a week from now to have the cards installed.
> 
> 
> Time to decide which Tivo I want - looks like I have until Monday or so to allow for activation time....



If you want to save money, and don't care about THX quality then the TiVo HD. If you want a nicer looking unit with a learnable remote and THX certified then get the S3. You can get them fairly cheap and remember, you're not restricted on what type of eSATA you can hook up to the S3 (so long as it is eSATA II).


----------



## HD MM

For those folks looking to jump into the TiVo world, please be informed that they have temporarily brought back the lifetime subscription offer for Series 3/ HD owners....


See link: here


----------



## hookbill

Thanks for the heads up! I'll probably do this, I'm one year into my 3 year contract now.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12167304
> 
> 
> I never heard of it. And I doubt she knew what she was talking about.




With the advent of OCAP, some third party manufacturers are getting into the cable DVR game. I've seen some Samsung OCAP STBs out there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12167919
> 
> 
> With the advent of OCAP, some third party manufacturers are getting into the cable DVR game. I've seen some Samsung OCAP DVRs out there.



In our area? That seems extremely unlikely. They got their hands full at TW just trying to get the DVR's on the same page.


So just to clarify, are you seeing this in our area?


----------



## stuart628

hey hook do you get a kickback for each tivo you sell?







any word yet (and sorry I dont follow the tivo game closely as I should I do love tivo, just have dish network) on the whole SDV and cable card and tivo not working? if they get that up and runnning, and TW gets big ten and nfl network, then that would maybe get me back in the cable game, but not until those three.


----------



## intermod

Yo' You's,


The Channel 61 tower has an extinguished top light. I can't find any "Contact Us"

link on thier web page. Phone number goes unanswered. P*sses me off. Fax works,

this place makes Raycom look like "Diamond Jim".



Cleveland 2861 W Ridgewood Dr

Parma, OH (440) 888-0661 (440) 888-7023 fax


Transmitter Power 2,000 kW Analog

525 kW Digital

Height|354 m (1161.42 ft) Analog

333.8 m (1095.14 ft) Digital

Class|Full Time TV Station (-TV)

Full Time HD Station (-DT)

Facility ID|60556

Transmitter Coordinates|41° 22' 58.00" N LAT

81° 42' 7.00" W LON



For your viewing pleasure that tower is just west of WOIO's stick.

You'll see it, Its the one with no toplight.


Memo to Univision: Get an answering machine, remember the FAA

is always "open".


I have reported Tower Illumination issues to almost all of the stations

here on the hill over the years and have always found them easy to

get a hold of and very proffesional. I just called the NOTAM hotline

and there is 1 NOTAM re: tower illumination logged ESE from CLE .

Since call letters don't mean much to pilots the FAA dosent use them.

I have to assume that they logged it, now the question is when

will they fix it?


/Dan


FYI:


Reporting a Tower Light Outage to the FAA


Jun 6, 2007 10:30 AM


When a tower is not properly lit because of a light outage, the tower owner is required to notify the FAA. Doing so creates a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) that is available to all pilot in regularly published notices and also through the FAA's NOTAM phone service at 800-WX-BRIEF.


In the past, tower owners would often call a local FAA flight service center to report the outage. Some flight centers continue to accept calls, but many stations and tower owners are finding that the phone number for a local flight service center has changed after the outage occurs.


The FAA has established a single, nationwide phone number to log NOTAMs. Call 877-487-6867 and the call will be routed to the appropriate flight service center.


When you call, be prepared to provide the tower registration number (also called an ASR number). This is the seven-digit number that is assigned to all FCC-registered towers. During our call to the NOTAM line to verify this information, we were also advised that it would be helpful to have the name of the airport nearest to the tower.


The person taking the information will provide a file number to reference the report. The tower owner should keep this number on file in the station log.


A NOTAM is valid for 15 days. It will automatically expire at that time, and the FAA will notify the FCC that the outage has been corrected. If the outage is not corrected within 15 days, the station should call the NOTAM office and file a new NOTAM. This will delete the old one and create a new one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12168048
> 
> 
> hey hook do you get a kickback for each tivo you sell?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any word yet (and sorry I dont follow the tivo game closely as I should I do love tivo, just have dish network) on the whole SDV and cable card and tivo not working? if they get that up and runnning, and TW gets big ten and nfl network, then that would maybe get me back in the cable game, but not until those three.



You gotta understand my situation. Had I been able to get a signal I probably would have gone with satellite. I've never been fond of cable.


Having said that and using the SA 8300 and being a former TiVo user I understand what a complete piece of crap it is (the SA 8300).










Now to answer your real questions. As far as the SDV issue, which probably won't be one around here for some time they have been working with the cable companies on what they call the "dongle". This device would attach to the cable end and then into the TiVo. It is suppose to allow two way communication, which would take care of SDV.


There is no way that cable in our are can compete at this time with D* or even E* in the HD area. Personally I could care less about big 10 or the NFL network so it's no loss for me.


----------



## HD MM

To anyone who's interested, The Plain Dealer had a story on today's front page about at&t U-verse expanding services and their competition with Time-Warner in Ohio........


See article: here.


----------



## hookbill

Might be good for people who just watch TV and don't use a DVR. I understand they can only deliver 1 HD channel at a time with their DVR.


----------



## jtscherne

It will be interesting to see how this affects Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, both of whom would not allow the U-verse boxes to be installed in their cities. Does the new state law preempt this?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12169960
> 
> 
> To anyone who's interested, The Plain Dealer had a story on today's front page about at&t U-verse expanding services and their competition with Time-Warner in Ohio........
> 
> 
> See article: here.


----------



## HD MM

I don't know how select cities can be exempt from the coming of the "big-ugly boxes", but according to the article:


"An Ohio law that took effect in September requires video-service providers to obtain only one state-issued franchise agreement instead of having to cut separate deals with each community where they want to do business. AT&T, the nation's largest telephone company, becomes the first to do that."


----------



## jtscherne

Ask the cellphone companies who have problems in certain areas getting approval to put up towers. To me, if a particular city decides it doesn't like what something does to their look, they should have the right to say so. I'm just wondering whether the new law takes this right away.


----------



## hookbill

I think they will only be offering service where they offer phone service, at least that was my take on it.


In my area it's Windstream, so I suppose that U-Verse will never be available in my part of town.


And that could be the "select areas" thing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12173269
> 
> 
> First of all, there is no such thing as a "Pioneer HD DVR". Most of the customer service people have no clue what they are talking about. She may be confused with the nod-DVR Pioneer BD-V3510HD box.
> 
> 
> Also, to the person getting the TW DVR: don't really buy into everything you hear. There are some probelms, but if you get a box that works, it's not that bad. I was one of the first to get an 8300HDC OCAP box with Navigator in August. At first I didn't like Navigator. But after you lear the tricks and how to use it, it's not that bad. There are a few things, like picture freeze up or rebooting, but that can happen with any box.
> 
> 
> I actually hope they start they start downloading Navigator to existing Passport boxes. Whit Navigator, Time Warner will be able to begin using a switched digital system and have more bandwidth and be able to add more HD channels.
> 
> 
> Overall, the 8300HD is not that bad. I really beat on it and use it everyday to record and it's been fine. Plus it's nice not to have to own the equipment when something goes wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, of course for the price, the Tivo S3 must be good quality.



SDV isn't going to be here anytime soon. Why do I say that? Because before they go there they will have to get us all on the same program guide. And that was suppose to have happened last June, at least that's what a tech told me around January.


As far as the SA 8300 goes, my experience with them was far worse then what you described however as I have said not everyone had that bad of an experience. And I had the same problems despite 3 exchanges.


Still "frozen picture" and "rebooting" I don't consider that acceptable but when you look at the price of the SA 8300, you get what you pay for.










Another thing too. TW is going to have to make a decision to either use passport or SARA. The indications I was getting from people on the West side who were having problems with On Demand is that they were moving towards SARA.


Can you describe Navigator a bit more to me? Is this another type of firmware (software)? Does it have cable card (s)?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12167982
> 
> 
> So just to clarify, are you seeing this in our area?



**Edit** What I saw was a non-DVR STB from Samsung. My bad.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12173850
> 
> 
> **Edit** What I saw was a non-DVR STB from Samsung. My bad.



Too late. In the mail I got the "I saw it with my own two eyes" original.


----------



## Brian5150

Any1 getting the cavs/ kings game in hd?

All I'm getting is a blue screen with a hd sports logo.

This is on armstrong in Medina.

Thx


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian5150* /forum/post/12175842
> 
> 
> Any1 getting the cavs/ kings game in hd?
> 
> All I'm getting is a blue screen with a hd sports logo.
> 
> This is on armstrong in Medina.
> 
> Thx



Same on channel 531 here in Akron. The channel guide say _NBA Basketball_ but there is just a blue screen with "HD Sports" on it. The game is on in SD digital on channel 31. Is it just me, or is the picture really bad? It looks like over compressed digital, similar to WBNS-SD. Very blurry on fast-paced shots, which basically is a basketball game.


The game is in HD on ESPNHD channel 559.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12173497
> 
> 
> Can you describe Navigator a bit more to me? Is this another type of firmware (software)? Does it have cable card (s)?



The way I understand it, Navigator is what TWC is slowly moving to as a company-wide platform, phasing out SARA and Passport. Rumor has it that TWC didn't want to pay what Pioneer was asking for the new version of Passport that supports OCAP and SDV, so they decided to hire a bunch of programmers and roll their own software. It appears that Navigator itself is Java-based, but I'm not sure what the underlying OS is. There's a splash screen during bootup with a "Mystro" logo - I did some searching and came up with:

http://www.kleinand.com/mystro.html 
http://www.avrev.com/news/0303/11.aol.shtml 


My refurbished 8300HDC (CableCard) I got a few months ago runs Navigator - I'm guessing as boxes pass through TWC's offices, they're being "upgraded" (if you can call it that) to Navigator before going back out in the field.


Visually, the program guide is similar to how Passport and SARA looks. The DVR menu looks very different than Passport, and it's a bit confusing at times. I get the feeling they didn't put a lot of thought into menu design - options you would expect to be at the top of the list (like "Play") often aren't - you have to scroll down to them.


One word I can use to describe Navigator is "slow". Push a button on the remote, and it sometimes takes 2-3 seconds for the box to respond. Often, I'll hit a button and think it didn't take, so I hit it again - the box catches up, and I'm eight listings away from where I want to be. When FF/Rewinding through a show, it still has the same three advance speeds, but jumping through a commercial break at 3x FF takes significantly longer than 2x FF on Passport. (REALLY annoying when you combine that with the delayed remote response. FF'ing through a break, and you see the show come back on - hit Play, and it happily keeps FF'ing several minutes worth of program before it resumes playback, and then you have to rewind those minutes.) And by TWC's admission, it can take up to 40 minutes to boot upon power-up. In reality, mine usually takes 10-15 minutes.


The only new feature I think is mildly useful is "Resolve Conflict" in the DVR section - if you have three shows scheduled for the same time slot, it gives you an option that will make it locate and record one of those shows in a different time slot. Unfortunately, it's not automatic - you have to hit Select on the program marked as conflicting and tell it to resolve. If you forget, too bad - it will happily skip the record job.


Reliability: absolutely horrible. Compared to the Navigator 8300HDC, my older Passport 8300 is rock-solid. Reboots for no reason, gets very easily confused (it thought when I hit channel 521 for WKYC-HD the other day, I really wanted to look at the WUAB-DT2 "The Tube is no longer broadcasting" message - took a reboot to fix it), and my favorite one - a message in the recording log that says "This channel is not currently available." (Causes a lot of missed recordings, even when I'm watching the same channel live at the time.)


You asked for a description, you got a review. Deal with it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12167304
> 
> 
> I never heard of it. And I doubt she knew what she was talking about. See above post about CSR experience.
> 
> 
> Oh and if you experience some minor problems with the SA 8300, like not recording what you want or partial only recordings, major macro blocking and frequent pixelation, sound drop offs that start to drive you nuts, then look into the HD TiVo. Not as expensive as the S3 but a nice alternative.
> 
> 
> Then you can bring the SA 8300 back to TW. I suggest tie it with a rope to the bumper of your car (see my signature).



I have been reading with interest the forum members posts regarding Tivo. As I have never used a Tivo unit, would you indulge me in answering some Tivo questions? I'm with WOW cable in Cleveland and I'd be replacing an SA dvr and a Samsung DTB-H260f ota HD tuner.


1. What is the difference between the two Tivo HD boxes? Just THX & learning remote? Any link to a side by side Tivo box comparison? (Can't find comparison on Tivo site)

2. Is Tivo portable? i.e. If I go satellite down the road my Tivo box will work on any cable/sat system? If yes, is lifetime subscription portable? Obviously I'd have to buy/rent the appropriate cable cards from each provider.

3. I need two cable cards in the Tivo to record one show while watching another?

4. With added SATA drive, does Tivo automatically add recordings to the second drive if drive one is full? Or do I have to manually move recordings to the second drive?

5. (subjective): Sounds from posts in here that the picture quality from Tivo is better overall than most anything coming from the cable co's SA boxes. Is this true for all sources (SD, digital, HD, HD ota)?

6. (subjective): With more stb dvr's hitting the market should I wait a bit or make the 1k jump to Tivo (box + lifetime subscription)?


Any thoughts, suggestions, comments are greatly appreciated.










Thanks


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/12168329
> 
> 
> Yo' You's,
> 
> 
> The Channel 61 tower has an extinguished top light. I can't find any "Contact Us"
> 
> link on thier web page. Phone number goes unanswered. P*sses me off. Fax works,
> 
> this place makes Raycom look like "Diamond Jim".



I've lived "on the hill" for a little over 2 years now. I never thought much about the tower lights other than to note how they disappear in the fog. On a clear night the tower lights reflect across the street off my neighbor's windows. A little red flashing light appears from an upstairs window










I live about a mile south of the Ridgewood towers so I can see them all out my patio window. From my POV WOIO & WBNX are less than an inch apart, so I can also see WQHS to the left. I'll have to check out WQHS's tower to see how long it takes to get it fixed.


I wonder if the Parma Police Dept. has contact numbers for all the towers? If not they should. It would be quite a disaster if a plane ever hit one of the towers. It's my understanding that there is supposed to be undeveloped land around each tower in a radius equal the height so that if one were to fall the damage would be limited. If my assumption were true, WJW's tower must have been grandfathered from the rule. I'm only .8 of a mile from WJW, just far enough to be safe (but then again maybe not, for the high tension power transmission lines run between WJW and here - the top of WJW's tower might just reach the power lines if it fell in that direction).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12177509
> 
> 
> 1. What is the difference between the two Tivo HD boxes? Just THX & learning remote? Any link to a side by side Tivo box comparison? (Can't find comparison on Tivo site)



Those differences along with the HDD size are the main differences I have seen.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12177509
> 
> 
> 2. Is Tivo portable? i.e. If I go satellite down the road my Tivo box will work on any cable/sat system? If yes, is lifetime subscription portable? Obviously I'd have to buy/rent the appropriate cable cards from each provider.



TiVo S3 and HD are incompatible with satellite. They won't even work to record SD since they don't have an IR blaster port. The lifetime subscription is for the lifetime of the box regardless of the source. If you get lifetime on a S3 or HD you'll be able to record OTA ATSC broadcasts until the box dies or if you somehow manage to get the subscription transfered.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12177509
> 
> 
> 3. I need two cable cards in the Tivo to record one show while watching another?



You need two cableCARDs if you need two digital encrypted streams decoded at one time. So, if you want to watch a digital cable channel while recording one, then yes you need to cableCARDs.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12177509
> 
> 
> 4. With added SATA drive, does Tivo automatically add recordings to the second drive if drive one is full? Or do I have to manually move recordings to the second drive?



It will automagically use both drives as necessary.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12177509
> 
> 
> 6. (subjective): With more stb dvr's hitting the market should I wait a bit or make the 1k jump to Tivo (box + lifetime subcription)?



Personally I don't see any strong competition to TiVo since they're having enough troubles competing against the cable provider DVRs.


----------



## hookbill

Just adding on to terryforster's comments the TiVo HD can only use a couple of eSATA drives that are blessed by TiVo limited to 500 gb where as the S3 can use any eSATAII drive including 1tb.


As far as waiting for someone else goes TiVo really is the only game in town. I disagree with his comments about "competing with cable dvr's", truly cable dvr's arn't even in the same ball park as TiVo's. That includes the new TiVo software Comcast box. Also left out was the fact that the S3 is not more appealing to the eye then HD TiVo and has a front OLED which shows what is currently being recorded.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12181032
> 
> 
> More on Navigator. I think it's also part of Time Warner standardizing their legacy systems and newly acquired companies. And it looks like Navigator is being used to advertise their services more. There is one feature called the Access Menu. In the access menu there are shortcuts to Movies on Demand, premium on demand and more options to sort shows by category. And Navigator has an on screen keyboard to enter the names of shows in the title search. On the Passport boxes, there's no keyboard, just a long list of shows. The difference on Navigator is now all PPV and on demand shows are included in the list.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/49/Content%20Management/Products%20And%20Services/images/mystro/conversion_guide.pdf




Two good things I noticed. The first being that the search is much easier then the guide I have seen in the past, which is the same guide I still see on my STB. The other is they are now allowing first run selection. Very nice, and a long time overdue.


It still doesn't come close to TiVo with features like Wishlist and Swivel-Search. I'll bet that caller id they are going to set up is only if your hooked up to their voip system. And their guide still only goes 7 days out.


And I'm just talking basic features.....TiVo has many other features beyond just programing.


Oh one other thing. It has to actually do what it says it will do.







That was my biggest complaint with TW's DVR.


----------



## Inundated

OK, has anyone else had lockup problems with ESPNHD on TWC/Cleveland?


I don't know if it's a TWC channel problem or with the infamous SA8000HD DVR, or both. If I've been at the set when it happens, I'm usually able to tune back in within a few minutes or less, but yesterday, it'd been sitting there since the last time I turned off the set the night before - with 772 still tuned in.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12170627
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this affects Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, both of whom would not allow the U-verse boxes to be installed in their cities. Does the new state law preempt this?



The cities didn't prevent installation of the boxes, the cities were protesting the lack of a lucrative franchise agreement (tax). The VRAD boxes have been installed in Shaker Heights for quite some time now. IIRC, they've been on Shaker treelawns for at least 1 to 2 years now.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12181401
> 
> 
> The other is they are now allowing first run selection. Very nice, and a long time overdue.



FYI: my Passport 8300 does support first-run selection. Navigator's first-run feature is a bit buggy. It does identify and record first runs correctly, but often will record a second showing of the same program later, even if the original recording is still saved.


It's a little weird. Last Friday, it recorded Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO as a first-run. (Ignore the fact that it was actually a rerun due to the writers' strike.) I watched the recording and left it on the DVR. The next afternoon, I looked at the Scheduled Recordings list - Real Time wasn't listed, but it recorded it that night on HBO2 anyway. Go figure...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12181401
> 
> 
> I'll bet that caller id they are going to set up is only if your hooked up to their voip system.



That's true - you must be a subscriber of TWC's Digital Phone service for the Caller ID feature to work.


I find it interesting that digging through the diagnostic screens on my Navigator box, there's a spot that mentions "Caller ID Port", with a value of 5060. Hmm - 5060 is the standard port number for SIP VoIP signalling....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12184332
> 
> 
> It's a little weird. Last Friday, it recorded Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO as a first-run. (Ignore the fact that it was actually a rerun due to the writers' strike.) I watched the recording and left it on the DVR. The next afternoon, I looked at the Scheduled Recordings list - Real Time wasn't listed, but it recorded it that night on HBO2 anyway. Go figure...



This can be one of two things. Either the DVR is still a piece of crap even with the new software (my first thought) or it isn't the DVR's fault and it's getting bad data.


For example, on my TiVo S3 we've had a "problem child" with USA channel. All visual data indicates whether a program is first run or not yet some get on the "to do list" anyway. Shows like "The 4400 and Psyche" have appeared from time to time and quite randomly sometimes at strange hours. And over the last two weeks the guide data has failed to recognize that L&O, CI are new shows.


We had this same problem with USA in the Summer as well and have notified TiVo. Hopefully they will contact USA to fix it. This week everything is back to normal.


----------



## hookbill

Here's a challange for you guys with Navigator software. Let's say you have a "record all, first run only" on "Flash Gordon" (using this as an example from my S3) which airs Fridays at 9:00 pm. Now if you have two other higher priority programs scheduled to be recorded, will your DVR still see that you haven't recorded that program and find a time when the same episode is on later? TiVo does.


Also if you manually choose to record an SP (season pass or first run only) at a different time will your DVR automatically cancel the previously requested program? From my experinece with SARA it wouldn't and it was a PIA because it would kick you out of the menu and pull you back to live TV.


Just curious. I'm really glad they are making strides to getting you guys something better, and it may be a bit buggy but hopefully that improves.


----------



## elmalloc

so do I get time warner cable/internet, or do satellite TV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elmalloc* /forum/post/12184725
> 
> 
> so do I get time warner cable/internet, or do satellite TV?



No offense elmalloc but how in the world are we suppose to offer an opinion based on your question? You haven't specified your needs (HD, vOIP, internet speed, if you want a DVR, is Big Ten Network and NFL network important to you? Do you have experience with other DVR's, like TiVo?)


Be a little more specific and we'll try to offer some help. My overall feeling that at this time of the game in this area if you have a clean line of site probably D* is your best shot. However without knowing what you want I can't make a real recommendation.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12184354
> 
> 
> That's true - you must be a subscriber of TWC's Digital Phone service for the Caller ID feature to work.



Wide Open West charges $2.99 a month for the Caller ID service on the SA8300HD, in addition to the WOW VOIP package charges. Ridiculous.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12185181
> 
> 
> Wide Open West charges $2.99 a month for the Caller ID service on the SA8300HD, in addition to the WOW VOIP package charges. Ridiculous.



Heh, you can bet TW will charge too.


----------



## jeffleonard

Holy cow!


The HD PQ on WOIO was a big improvement during the Browns game today.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jeffleonard* /forum/post/12187899
> 
> 
> Holy cow!
> 
> 
> The HD PQ on WOIO was a big improvement during the Browns game today.



It looked good OTA, but unfortunately it looks like WOW is rate shaping WOIO now and chopping off 1 - 3 Mpbs of bandwidth on a station that already has 2Mbps lopped off the top for WeatherNow. WOW has always looked identical to OTA, but that would not appear to be the case any more.










I've packed up the SA8300HD and putting in a call to WOW to pick up the box and discontinue video service. D* has won my business.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12187980
> 
> 
> It looked good OTA, but unfortunately it looks like WOW is rate shaping WOIO now and chopping off 1 - 3 Mpbs of bandwidth on a station that already has 2Mbps lopped off the top for WeatherNow. WOW has always looked identical to OTA, but that would not appear to be the case any more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've packed up the SA8300HD and putting in a call to WOW to pick up the box and discontinue video service. D* has won my business.



FWIW, I watched on WOIO via TW. I think I saw maybe 1 instance of pixelation but all in all I thought pq was excellent.


I think D* is going to get a whole lot more business in the near future, specially around here. TW is not offering good competition for HD. You'll also get a better DVR from D* then the SA 8300. I think you may have to pay for it though.


----------



## sthosler

I just setup a Terk TV5 indoor antenna. Everything is coming in great except WKYC. I have scanned this thread and can't seem to find the answer.


I am in North Ridgeville and have Dish. The antenna hooked to the back of the HD receiver.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12188300
> 
> 
> I think D* is going to get a whole lot more business in the near future, specially around here. TW is not offering good competition for HD. You'll also get a better DVR from D* then the SA 8300. I think you may have to pay for it though.



I've had the HR20 set up for a few months now running side by side and it's so much better than the SA8300HD. D* is also releasing regular proactive software updates enabling new features all the time. (it takes like a year or two for the cable company to update SARA) For the heck of it today I connected the HR20 to internet and home LAN and I'm sharing photos and music with my PC, and downloading Video On Demand to the HR20. They will also be adding the remote scheduling DVR thru the website as well. I have an external SATA drive connected to it with no trouble. HR20 has an RF remote so I can channel change from the kitchen on my countertop TV slaved to the component output of the HR20 in the living room. The support available from forums like DBSTalk is fantastic - compare that with non existent support for the relatively featureless SA8300HD mysterious "black box". Oh and the HR20 doesn't have a hard drive that is constantly chirping away, tick tick ticking, recalibrating, doing god knows what like the SA8300HD.


The downside with D* is of course you need to buy the equipment and have a D* receiver on every TV in the house (although if you play CSR roulette one can make deals). And no dual tuner PIP.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12188405
> 
> 
> The downside with D* is of course you need to buy the equipment and have a D* receiver on every TV in the house (although if you play CSR roulette one can make deals). And no dual tuner PIP.



Not to be too technical but you don't "buy" it, you lease it. And that in itself is not a bad thing because is something is wrong, you can exchange it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sthosler* /forum/post/12188301
> 
> 
> I am in North Ridgeville and have Dish. The antenna hooked to the back of the HD receiver.



This has been addressed very, very often here...a quick search on "WKYC" will come up with a few answers.


But since we're here: the problem, basically, is that WKYC-DT is a "low VHF" (real) channel. It's on DT 2, which is even lower than its analog 3.


The channels under 6 are susceptible to electrical interference, which you can see on the analog 3 by the "sparklies" you see on the screen.


Those "sparklies" disrupt the digital channel, only in that case, you just won't get a lock on a signal.


Get a better antenna (outdoor, preferably) or move closer to Parma. Those are your only current solutions. Unless you're within about 5 miles of Parma, you aren't getting WKYC-DT on any indoor antenna that I know of. NR is too far.


Other than that, you'll have to wait until Feb. 2009, when WKYC-DT will displace analog WDLI/Canton on (real) channel 17, and won't have any of these problems. (For its part, WDLI will stay on UHF 39 for its digital side. Both channels' PSIP information will keep the current analog number, as far as I know.)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sthosler* /forum/post/12188301
> 
> 
> I just setup a Terk TV5 indoor antenna. Everything is coming in great except WKYC. I have scanned this thread and can't seem to find the answer.
> 
> 
> I am in North Ridgeville and have Dish. The antenna hooked to the back of the HD receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



In addition to what Inundated said, I thought I read earlier in this thread that people with certain Dish receivers were having trouble with low VHF like WKYC due to a hardware defect in the receiver (or maybe it was a software update?) Someone else with Dish can chime in on this


----------



## jtscherne

That's DirecTV. When I had Dish I had no problems getting Channel 3 OTA.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12188988
> 
> 
> In addition to what Inundated said, I thought I read earlier in this thread that people with certain Dish receivers were having trouble with low VHF like WKYC due to a hardware defect in the receiver (or maybe it was a software update?) Someone else with Dish can chime in on this


----------



## sthosler




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12188921
> 
> 
> This has been addressed very, very often here...a quick search on "WKYC" will come up with a few answers.
> 
> 
> But since we're here: the problem, basically, is that WKYC-DT is a "low VHF" (real) channel. It's on DT 2, which is even lower than its analog 3.
> 
> 
> The channels under 6 are susceptible to electrical interference, which you can see on the analog 3 by the "sparklies" you see on the screen.
> 
> 
> Those "sparklies" disrupt the digital channel, only in that case, you just won't get a lock on a signal.
> 
> 
> Get a better antenna (outdoor, preferably) or move closer to Parma. Those are your only current solutions. Unless you're within about 5 miles of Parma, you aren't getting WKYC-DT on any indoor antenna that I know of. NR is too far.
> 
> 
> Other than that, you'll have to wait until Feb. 2009, when WKYC-DT will displace analog WDLI/Canton on (real) channel 17, and won't have any of these problems. (For its part, WDLI will stay on UHF 39 for its digital side. Both channels' PSIP information will keep the current analog number, as far as I know.)




Thanks for the response. I could not figure out how to search within this thread. I was searching the main forums and coming up with this entire thread. I guess I'll have to do without. Thanks.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sthosler* /forum/post/12188301
> 
> 
> I just setup a Terk TV5 indoor antenna. Everything is coming in great except WKYC. I have scanned this thread and can't seem to find the answer.
> 
> 
> I am in North Ridgeville and have Dish. The antenna hooked to the back of the HD receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I live in North Ridgeville too and channel 5 was the toughest one to get for me. I just re-adjusted the antenna attaced to my satellite dish and now it comes in. I never had any luck getting all the local channels with any inside antennas including the Zenith one that many on this forum used to recommend.


----------



## jeffleonard

I live near the Westlake/Avon/Ridgeville border, and WKYC is hit or miss with my rooftop antenna.


WEWS and FOX are usually rock solid, WOIO usually has a little lower signal strength (I don't think they broadcast at full power) and WKYC is the lowest signal.


As previously mentioned...this should improve in the next 12 months.


----------



## hookbill

Guys, OTA is out of my area of expertise. OK so most HD is out of my area of expertise.







But didn't I read that there was one antennae that out there that doesn't do VHF? I can't recall if it was the Terk.


----------



## DaMavs

It's fairly common for many of the new "digital" antennas to be weak to non-existent on VHF, particularly low VHF where WKYC is (digital 2). Many of the new antennas are focussed on UHF since nearly every market out there, except Cleveland of course, has the digital broadcasts in the UHF spectrum. For some reason Cleveland has 2 channels still in VHF (WKYZ at 2 and WOIO at 10). Also small antennas struggle with receiving VHF channel 2 due to the length of the signal - I believe the rabbit ear instructions to receive 3-1 are to open the ears as wide as possible and flatten them out.


Check if the Terk is a UHF antenna - if so that's the likely culprit. Your options would be to switch antennas to something that works with VHF or to wait until Feb. '09 when channel 3 moves to a higher channel number (was it 12?).


Also regarding D* and Channel 3. The HR20-100 D* DVR's currently will not receive WKYZ OTA. Presumably this will be fixed via a firmware update at some point (since it was broken that way in the first place). Also note that they will receive 3-1 via the MPEG4 HD locals from D* so as long as you pay (~$6 per month), you'll get Ch. 3 just fine. FWIW the HD locals generally provide more reliable reception at my location than OTA, but depending on your location and equipment, that may differ.


----------



## kosar1985

Does anyone know why I can not get the Cavs in HD tonight on channel 95


----------



## nickdawg

Tonight's episode of Jay Leno is from November 17, 2003. The HD picture quality on this episode actually looks better than some of the newer episodes. I never knew Jay was broadcasting in HD back then.


----------



## mnowlin

After much deliberation, I took the plunge and picked up a shiny new Tivo HD tonight. Overall, I'm fairly impressed - just need to teach my fingers where the various buttons on the remote are...










TWC is due out on Thursday to install the CableCards. That should be fun.


----------



## HD MM

Good news Browns fans.......


Our week 11 game @ Baltimore will be available in HD via CBS.


See link: here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12202089
> 
> 
> Good news Browns fans.......
> 
> 
> Our week 11 game @ Baltimore will be available in HD via CBS.
> 
> 
> See link: here.



Off topic, I know but I have to say that the Browns did look impressive against Pittsburgh. They gave them a good game, it's just their defense was a bit too much for them.


Overall Browns fans I think your future is looking up.


----------



## jtscherne

Not to make it a Browns thread, but...

I wonder what might have happened had they not wasted the two timeouts.

The Browns have a very easy schedule the rest of the way, with only Buffalo at above .500.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12202343
> 
> 
> Not to make it a Browns thread, but...
> 
> I wonder what might have happened had they not wasted the two timeouts.
> 
> The Browns have a very easy schedule the rest of the way, with only Buffalo at above .500.



Or had they not have been penalized on the final punt by the Steelers! Cribbs returned it to the Pittsburgh 38, but the play was nullified by a holding call, pushing the Browns back to their 33. The holding call by Darnell Dinkins was extremely questionable in my opinion and besides, he was no where near Cribbs during the return so it had no overall effect on the play. To me, the refs blew the call and ultimately may have cost us the game. However that was only one of many other reasons why we should've won that game. Oh well.....


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar1985* /forum/post/12199416
> 
> 
> Does anyone know why I can not get the Cavs in HD tonight on channel 95



By channel 95 you mean what, MOJO? The game was broadcast in HD (not by FSN, but by NBA TV. Mojo had the NBA TV simulcast but it was unfortanuately blacked out







). Thus being stuck to watching FSN SD.


----------



## DaMavs

By Ch. 95 he likely has D* as that's the "special events" channel D* uses to broadcast HD FSN games. Since the game was on NBA TV he likely needed to look at 601 instead - presuming the NBA TV's free preview is still running on D*, which I think it is.


----------



## HD MM

The Cavs game was blacked out on NBA TV-HD through D*. Only way to see it was on FSN-SD. Yuk......


----------



## jtscherne

For HD MM:


DIRECTV launched 23 more HD Channels today:


Full Time National Channels:


* 299: Nickelodeon (NIK1HD)

* 325: Spike HD

* 327: Country Music Television (CMTHD)

* 331: MTV HD

* 335: VH1 HD



Games Only Regional Sports Networks:


* 620-1: Comcast Sports Net New England HD

* 630-1: FSN South HD

* 631-1: SportsSouth HD

* 632-1: Sun Sports HD

* 634-1: FSN Florida HD

* 637-1: FSN Ohio HD

* 638-1: FSN Cincinnati HD

* 641-1: FSN North HD

* 644-1: Altitude HD

* 645-1: FSN Rocky Mountain HD

* 649-1: FSN Arizona HD

* 651-1: FSN Northwest HD

* 654-1: FSN Bay Area HD



...plus five more HD pay-per-view channels


The Games Only channels are for RSNs that aren't 24 hour HD (like Fox Sports Ohio). This means that anyone who subscribes to a sports subscription (such as basketball, baseball, or hockey) will be able to get the HD feed of the game.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12211821
> 
> 
> For HD MM:
> 
> 
> DIRECTV launched 23 more HD Channels today:
> 
> 
> Full Time National Channels:
> 
> 
> * 299: Nickelodeon (NIK1HD)
> 
> * 325: Spike HD
> 
> * 327: Country Music Television (CMTHD)
> 
> * 331: MTV HD
> 
> * 335: VH1 HD
> 
> 
> 
> Games Only Regional Sports Networks:
> 
> 
> * 620-1: Comcast Sports Net New England HD
> 
> * 630-1: FSN South HD
> 
> * 631-1: SportsSouth HD
> 
> * 632-1: Sun Sports HD
> 
> * 634-1: FSN Florida HD
> 
> * 637-1: FSN Ohio HD
> 
> * 638-1: FSN Cincinnati HD
> 
> * 641-1: FSN North HD
> 
> * 644-1: Altitude HD
> 
> * 645-1: FSN Rocky Mountain HD
> 
> * 649-1: FSN Arizona HD
> 
> * 651-1: FSN Northwest HD
> 
> * 654-1: FSN Bay Area HD
> 
> 
> 
> ...plus five more HD pay-per-view channels
> 
> 
> The Games Only channels are for RSNs that aren't 24 hour HD (like Fox Sports Ohio). This means that anyone who subscribes to a sports subscription (such as basketball, baseball, or hockey) will be able to get the HD feed of the game.



Thank you,


The Cleveland HD List has been updated.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12211821
> 
> 
> 
> The Games Only channels are for RSNs that aren't 24 hour HD (like Fox Sports Ohio). This means that anyone who subscribes to a sports subscription (such as basketball, baseball, or hockey) will be able to get the HD feed of the game.



Just curious as I am at work right now and not in front of my TV to check for myself....


What is the difference between the "Games Only" Channel of FSN-OH HD (637-1) that was just added and channel 96 that shows the the FSN/STO games on? And I assume that we Clevelanders get FSN-OH HD without subscribing to the Sports Pack, correct?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12214129
> 
> 
> Just curious as I am at work right now and not in front of my TV to check for myself....
> 
> 
> What is the difference between the "Games Only" Channel of FSN-OH HD (637-1) that was just added and channel 96 that shows the the FSN/STO games on? And I assume that we Clevelanders get FSN-OH HD without subscribing to the Sports Pack, correct?



What he is saying is that if you subscribe to things like Major League Baseball Extra Innings you will get the out of market games in HD (when available). That would apply to NHL and NBA as well.


----------



## jtscherne

Channel 96 is MPEG-2 on a spotbeam, meaning it is only available here in the Cleveland area, as opposed to 637-1, which is available nationwide.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12214129
> 
> 
> Just curious as I am at work right now and not in front of my TV to check for myself....
> 
> 
> What is the difference between the "Games Only" Channel of FSN-OH HD (637-1) that was just added and channel 96 that shows the the FSN/STO games on? And I assume that we Clevelanders get FSN-OH HD without subscribing to the Sports Pack, correct?


----------



## Tim Lones

Just wanted to call attention if anyone might be interested...to some of my recent blog postings..


Some history of WKST/WYTV-33 and a forgotten station, WXTV-Channel 45 in Youngstown (operated 1960-62)


Hoolihan and Big Chuck Opening from either late 1960's or early 70's..The related videos feature an early 1967 [email protected] skit with Andy Griffith..from YouTube


ABC 1959-60 Promos for mostly the Warner Brothers series..related..The WEWS-TV 5 Schedule for December 24-30, 1960


Barnaby:Opening minute to his final show on WUAB-TV 43 in 1990 (YouTube)


The archives go back to March 2007..Feel free to browse about..

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.com/ 




Thanks..


----------



## jtscherne

Whoops! Here are a few more that just appeared:


DIREC*TV* has a few more HD channels for you:


*Games Only Regional Sports Networks:*


* 669-1: RSNaHD

* 648-1: FSN Midwest HD

* 646-1: FSN Utah HD

* 639-1: FSN Houston HD

* 642-1: FSN Wisconsin HD



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12214067
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> The Cleveland HD List has been updated.


----------



## gilham1

Sorry guys i know this is a question asked over and over but here I go.

My set up:

37" LCD

8300hdc from TW running to TV through componet.


This is the first time I have had HDTV on my set, and wo im very upset with the PQ that I seem to be getting, full of grain,blurry etc.Not every channel but most.Fox and CBS seem to be the only ones that really come in right.

I had hooked the coax up this weekend for the browns game because the TW guy couldnt get out here till Yesterday.

Anyways sorry just wanted to give a little info first.

I want to make sure that I have everything hooked up right,im pretty pist at this point that the coax look as good if not better then now with the HD box.Oh by the way I do have a QAM tunner in my Tv.Ok I have the size set up to normal, aspect set to 16x9, and res set to 1080i/720p/480p.That is settings for the HD box.I was woundering if anyone has used HDMI over componet and if it made a diffrence?

Not sure what else You need, but again sorry for the repeated question.

Thanks in advance

Jeff


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/12218837
> 
> 
> Sorry guys i know this is a question asked over and over but here I go.
> 
> My set up:
> 
> 37" LCD
> 
> 8300hdc from TW running to TV through componet.
> 
> 
> This is the first time I have had HDTV on my set, and wo im very upset with the PQ that I seem to be getting, full of grain,blurry etc.Not every channel but most.Fox and CBS seem to be the only ones that really come in right.
> 
> I had hooked the coax up this weekend for the browns game because the TW guy couldnt get out here till Yesterday.
> 
> Anyways sorry just wanted to give a little info first.
> 
> I want to make sure that I have everything hooked up right,im pretty pist at this point that the coax look as good if not better then now with the HD box.Oh by the way I do have a QAM tunner in my Tv.Ok I have the size set up to normal, aspect set to 16x9, and res set to 1080i/720p/480p.That is settings for the HD box.I was woundering if anyone has used HDMI over componet and if it made a diffrence?
> 
> Not sure what else You need, but again sorry for the repeated question.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Jeff



It sounds to me like you are getting only the analog feeds. You may have a QAM tuner, but if you you tuned to 3, 5, or 8 as opposed to the QAM channels (which look like FM radio channels i.e. 102.3) then you were watching the analog signal.


You need to scan for digital channels. Read the manual.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/12218837
> 
> 
> Sorry guys i know this is a question asked over and over but here I go.
> 
> My set up:
> 
> 37" LCD
> 
> 8300hdc from TW running to TV through componet.
> 
> 
> This is the first time I have had HDTV on my set, and wo im very upset with the PQ that I seem to be getting, full of grain,blurry etc.Not every channel but most.Fox and CBS seem to be the only ones that really come in right.
> 
> I had hooked the coax up this weekend for the browns game because the TW guy couldnt get out here till Yesterday.
> 
> Anyways sorry just wanted to give a little info first.
> 
> I want to make sure that I have everything hooked up right,im pretty pist at this point that the coax look as good if not better then now with the HD box.Oh by the way I do have a QAM tunner in my Tv.Ok I have the size set up to normal, aspect set to 16x9, and res set to 1080i/720p/480p.That is settings for the HD box.I was woundering if anyone has used HDMI over componet and if it made a diffrence?
> 
> Not sure what else You need, but again sorry for the repeated question.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Jeff



Make sure you are tuned to an HD channel and that the light on the front of the box changes to "1080i" or "720p" when you switch to that channel. I'm sure TWC is the same as my WOW cable - the HD channels are not on 3, 5, 8, they are some higher number in the hundreds. If the light on the front of the box always says "480p", then you're not watching HD.


----------



## gilham1

It shows 720p/1080i,boy i really screwed the pooch on the my last post.I am tuned to the HD channels, just not all are as great as i was thinking they where going to be.I still am getting alot of grain and some blurring on some of the channels.I guess it is just the broadcast.

I just wanted to make sure i had everything setup right.i went back through my manual for my TV and also looked at the crappy handout they give you with the box.i may try an HDMI cable and see if i get any better of a picture.It wouldn't be such a big deal but others that have the same TV as me report having great PQ.From my HD DVD player the PQ is outstanding.Just disappointed i guess.thanks guys for the help.Any more suggestions let me know.


----------



## hookbill

This may come to as a bit of a shock but it could be that the SA 8300 that you have is a piece of crap. But lets say it isn't. Are you running the latest firmware? That might be a big part of the puzzle.


I really don't know anything about QAM tuners and I mystified why you would use an SA 8300 if you had a QAM tuner. I guess you're using it for recording HD.


It shouldn't make too much difference if you are using component or HDMI, but then I have to qualify that by saying it varies from set to set.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12220204
> 
> 
> I really don't know anything about QAM tuners and I mystified why you would use an SA 8300 if you had a QAM tuner. I guess you're using it for recording HD.



Don't forget the QAM tuner in the TV is only going to pick up the "in the clear" channels, none of the encrypted stuff, so it makes perfect sense to use the SA8300 if you want stuff like TNTHD, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, etc. Not to mention TV QAM tuners seem to require a perfect signal level, whereas the cable boxes are not as picky.


Could be he's watching SD upconverted stretchovision on TNTHD, or a local newscast with a lot of SD content. gilham1, tell us what channels and what programs you are watching that are blurry and grainy.


----------



## Inundated

Of course, not everything's in HD on the HD channels.


Prime-time comedy/drama series almost always are. Just about every major sports event is now in HD, give or take an FSN Ohio Cavs game or five, or most away Indians games on STO.


All four major local TV news operations do studio broadcasts in HD, though field video is nearly always in SD. (Exceptions: FOX 8's helicopter, and remote cameras like WKYC's at Jacobs Field, or FOX 8's on top of their own building on South Marginal Road.)


Almost all reruns during the day, syndicated talk shows, and other daytime material are in SD.


Two of the three network morning shows (NBC, ABC) are in HD - CBS is still straggling.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12189004
> 
> 
> That's DirecTV. When I had Dish I had no problems getting Channel 3 OTA.



No, I'm pretty sure the bug in question was one specific Dish Network receiver - a 921?? They sent out firmware at some point that fixed it, IIRC. (I don't have satellite, so I'm just trying to remember what I read.)


Oh, I see above that it might indeed be a DirecTV receiver. Or maybe both!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12220261
> 
> 
> Don't forget the QAM tuner in the TV is only going to pick up the "in the clear" channels, none of the encrypted stuff, so it makes perfect sense to use the SA8300 if you want stuff like TNTHD, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, etc.



Just to keep the information accurate, let me point out that TW does broadcast TNTHD and Discovery HD in the clear. But not ESPNHD.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12222194
> 
> 
> Just to keep the information accurate, let me point out that TW does broadcast TNTHD and Discovery HD in the clear. But not ESPNHD.



Maybe in your area, not everywhere. TWC Akron sends only the local DTV channels in the clear.


----------



## schandorsky

We have lost TBSHD in the Time Warner Elyria area. Does anybody know why?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12222519
> 
> 
> We have lost TBSHD in the Time Warner Elyria area. Does anybody know why?



What do you mean by "lost"? Is it a blank screen or simply no longer on the guide?


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12222545
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "lost"? Is it a blank screen or simply no longer on the guide?



Yes and Yes. Completely gone.


----------



## Rambozo

Well, I bit the bullet when a Door-to-Door rep came a knockin' a couple weeks ago. ATT will be installing Uverse this Saturday here in Akron. My neighborhood got lit up a month or 2 ago, and they are ready to roll out.


The offer was worthy, and worse case I lower my DSL costs by $5/month if I choose to drop the TV portion. Had DSL with ATT already without much of a glitch at all, so I am not concerned there.


Hope it hooks the wife so I can keep it


----------



## HD MM

For those interested, I've recently made available "The Cleveland HD Channel List" online through a dedicated web address published by Google Docs.


I figure bookmarking this link and checking back for updates would be easier to some then searching for my original post and downloading the latest attached excel file, which was the way I had been doing it before.


I will continue to bring attention on this thread to any changes in the list.


See link here: "The Cleveland HD Channel List"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12222736
> 
> 
> Yes and Yes. Completely gone.



Call TW. It's working fine over here on the east side. Matter of fact we actually have it on two channels, 600 and 778.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12222746
> 
> 
> Well, I bit the bullet when a Door-to-Door rep came a knockin' a couple weeks ago. ATT will be installing Uverse this Saturday here in Akron. My neighborhood got lit up a month or 2 ago, and they are ready to roll out.
> 
> 
> The offer was worthy, and worse case I lower my DSL costs by $5/month if I choose to drop the TV portion. Had DSL with ATT already without much of a glitch at all, so I am not concerned there.
> 
> 
> Hope it hooks the wife so I can keep it



U-Verse is a good deal if you don't use a DVR. However if you want to use a DVR it's not so great. You can only receive one HD channel at a time.


It will never get to my area but since I record usually as many as 6 HD shows in 3 hours primetime it would not be good for me.


Also what about your phone bill? They still have you stuck to a land line phone. Do you get free long distance or even free toll charges? While I don't know anything about TW's phone I use Vonage and it was much cheaper then the phone company.


----------



## Rambozo

The "record 1 HD stream" is a valid issue. It's also compounded with you can only record the same HD stream that you are watching, unless you are watching something in SD. Basically 1 HD stream into the house, period.


We only have one HDTV, and I am planning on using a Slingbox with another tuner to present it to the computer downstairs, or the laptop anywhere










The HD stream limit is supposed to be corrected early next year, as well as a few other niggling issues.


----------



## ajstan99

Up until the last month or so, the clear-QAM stations on my TV always resoved to the corresponding three-digit channel number as noted in WOW's published channel lineup. Then, FOX, NBC, and MyNetwork all were moved and/or showed the channel number in the xxx-xxx format. Hopefully, that means that WOW is rearranging their digital channels to add more HD.


Yesterday I did a rescan and found the following new channels. Who knows how long they'll be available, but if anyone is interested, here are the numbers to punch in for direct access. In all cases, the last three numbers in the xxx-xxx format are consistent with the channel numbers published in the WOW Channel Lineup.


New Available HD Clear-QAM Channels

100-212, HDNet

100-213, HDNet*Movies

101-215, NFL HD

102-209, TNT HD

102-216, HGTV HD

103-220, Fox Sports Ohio*HD


New Available SD Clear-QAM Channels

100-309, Sprout

101-316, Fox Reality

101-362, IMF - Int. Music Feed

102-317, ABC News Now

103-338, NFL Network


Regularly Available Clear-QAM Channels

101-202, FOX HD

102-110, Weather Now

103-140, The Tube

103-204, MyNetworkTV HD

130, Weather Plus

200, ABC HD

201, CBS HD

203, NBC HD


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/12220083
> 
> 
> It shows 720p/1080i,boy i really screwed the pooch on the my last post.I am tuned to the HD channels, just not all are as great as i was thinking they where going to be.I still am getting alot of grain and some blurring on some of the channels.I guess it is just the broadcast.
> 
> I just wanted to make sure i had everything setup right.i went back through my manual for my TV and also looked at the crappy handout they give you with the box.i may try an HDMI cable and see if i get any better of a picture.It wouldn't be such a big deal but others that have the same TV as me report having great PQ.From my HD DVD player the PQ is outstanding.Just disappointed i guess.thanks guys for the help.Any more suggestions let me know.



A few things you might try, but really shouldn't make a difference:


If you have more than one Component input on the TV, try switching the cables to a different input. This will eliminate the TV as a problem.


A component cable has three wires. Change the connection to use a different wire and see if the problems are different. For example, connect the red pin on the cable box to the red pin on the TV, but use the green wire. This will eliminate the component cable as a problem.


If your cable is split to multiple rooms or multiple devices, try connecting it directly to the cable box. A bad coax or coax connector anywhere can have an impact on your picture. I couldn't receive Discovery HD on my QAM tuner until I replaced a bad coax that ran from my splitter to my VCR.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12222994
> 
> 
> Call TW. It's working fine over here on the east side. Matter of fact we actually have it on two channels, 600 and 778.



Thanks for the info. TBSHD went from channel 250 to channel 600. All my other HD channels are in the 200's. For example ESPNHD 252, TNTHD 249 and HBOHD 228.


----------



## kinglerch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12188988
> 
> 
> In addition to what Inundated said, I thought I read earlier in this thread that people with certain Dish receivers were having trouble with low VHF like WKYC due to a hardware defect in the receiver (or maybe it was a software update?) Someone else with Dish can chime in on this



In my (somewhat limited) experience, nothing pulls in the signals better than the built-in TV tuner. Not all tuners are created equal. In general, I haven't had trouble with WKYC through dish's vip622. But harder to get channels from Akron or Youngstown come in perfect through the few TV tuners I've tried, but give the vip622 trouble. FWIW.


----------



## Ben Music

This may the first step in the TWC channel realignment for the ex Comcast people in the Elyria/Lorain Cty. area. I believe that the main TWC system (Akron) has all the HD channels in the 500 to 600 area. This may make some room for more HD in the future, along with the change to a switched digital system.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/12226754
> 
> 
> This may the first step in the TWC channel realignment for the ex Comcast people in the Elyria/Lorain Cty. area. I believe that the main TWC system (Akron) has all the HD channels in the 500 to 600 area. This may make some room for more HD in the future, along with the change to a switched digital system.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I don't know. When they first did this I called TW to make sure what the "permanent" station was going to be. They told me that 778 was the permanent home.


I had the feeling that TBSHD would be "free" for a while then added to their higher HD tier. However I could be wrong, as I myself has said many times "Never believe anything a CSR tells you."


----------



## jtscherne

There is a model-specific problem with one Directv receiver that has nothing to do with signal strength. The Model HR20-100 (not the earlier HR20-700) has a software glitch that won't allow it to tune low frequency OTA. This is not just in Cleveland but has been reported by folks in other areas that have a low frequency station (usually 2 or 3). It was originally a problem in the HR20-700, but was later corrected. It has NOT yet been corrected in the -100.


Luckily, in Cleveland, Directv offers WKYC-DT as part of its package and the quality is close to OTA.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kinglerch* /forum/post/12226733
> 
> 
> In my (somewhat limited) experience, nothing pulls in the signals better than the built-in TV tuner. Not all tuners are created equal. In general, I haven't had trouble with WKYC through dish's vip622. But harder to get channels from Akron or Youngstown come in perfect through the few TV tuners I've tried, but give the vip622 trouble. FWIW.


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/12225182
> 
> 
> A few things you might try, but really shouldn't make a difference:
> 
> 
> If you have more than one Component input on the TV, try switching the cables to a different input. This will eliminate the TV as a problem.
> 
> 
> A component cable has three wires. Change the connection to use a different wire and see if the problems are different. For example, connect the red pin on the cable box to the red pin on the TV, but use the green wire. This will eliminate the component cable as a problem.
> 
> 
> If your cable is split to multiple rooms or multiple devices, try connecting it directly to the cable box. A bad coax or coax connector anywhere can have an impact on your picture. I couldn't receive Discovery HD on my QAM tuner until I replaced a bad coax that ran from my splitter to my VCR.



Thanks for the reply.I changed the componet cable to see if that was the issue, well in doing so I noticed the TW guy never replaced the coax ends like i had asked.I had put some cheap $2 ends on the cable just to hook it up to watch the game sunday,I think I will call them and have them send someone back out and put better ends on the cable wire and see if that helps.


----------



## mnowlin

The TWC tech showed up today to install the CableCards in my Tivo. After greetings were exchanged, the first thing he asked was "They told you it takes up to 24 hours for the cards to be working completely, right?" Umm, no... He went on to tell me about the last Tivo CC install he did - couldn't get the cards to work, had to order replacements, extra trips, etc. Bad omen...


Popped the cards in (used two single-channel cards) and called TWC with the registration numbers - five minutes later I had Disc-HD, HBO, etc. He sure seemed surprised it went so smoothly.... So was I.


Time to watch everything remaining on the 8300 and, as suggested by a certain party, drag the damn thing back to TWC on a very long chain.



*** Update ***


Just realized that TWC added the HDTV Tier to my lineup without asking if I wanted it. Did the math, and if I keep it, my monthly bill still goes down a little bit, but I find it a little arrogant of them to assume I want to spend $7/mo for four extra channels... I'll have to sleep on this and call tomorrow - not sure how I'm gonna handle this.


New slogan for TWC: "We're not as simple as we seem." That can be interpreted in several ways...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/12227333
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply.I changed the componet cable to see if that was the issue, well in doing so I noticed the TW guy never replaced the coax ends like i had asked.I had put some cheap $2 ends on the cable just to hook it up to watch the game sunday,I think I will call them and have them send someone back out and put better ends on the cable wire and see if that helps.



New ends on your coax shouldn't improve the picture on your digital channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12231228
> 
> 
> Time to watch everything remaining on the 8300 and, as suggested by a certain party, drag the damn thing back to TWC on a very long chain.



That would have been me. Credit due where credit deserved.










I'm glad he got your install right, but it doesn't take 24 hours. All he needed to do was follow the instruction sheet and everything would have worked fine. The problem is that these guys don't want to follow instructions, think they know it all and generally have bad attitudes for some reason.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12231228
> 
> 
> Just realized that TWC added the HDTV Tier to my lineup without asking if I wanted it. Did the math, and if I keep it, my monthly bill still goes down a little bit, but I find it a little arrogant of them to assume I want to spend $7/mo for four extra channels... I'll have to sleep on this and call tomorrow - not sure how I'm gonna handle this.
> 
> 
> New slogan for TWC: "We're not as simple as we seem." That can be interpreted in several ways...



Just a suggestion. Don't do anything until you see your bill. Then you can call them back and say, "Hey, I didn't order this!" if it's on the bill. If it isn't on the bill.........


----------



## GregF2

Amazing to me how TW could just move a HD channel (TBS) to a location I would not even of looking at. Think of people who don't even read the forum and think the station is just gone. 600 has nothing to do with the other HD stations we get in the old Comcast market. I am just about done with TW and their poor customer service and might switch to DirectTV. Direct is definitely not shy in promoting their new HD channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12232181
> 
> 
> Amazing to me how TW could just move a HD channel (TBS) to a location I would not even of looking at. Think of people who don't even read the forum and think the station is just gone. 600 has nothing to do with the other HD stations we get in the old Comcast market. I am just about done with TW and their poor customer service and might switch to DirectTV. Direct is definitely not shy in promoting their new HD channels.



Not that D* customer service will be better but they sure as hell have a heck of a lot more to offer then TW does.


If I didn't have a line of sight problem I'd have left old Adelphia over a year ago.


BTW the only reason I discovered it on 600 was it was at the end of MLB Extra Innings when it was added and I was cruising around in that area. I was surprised to see it in two spots.


Edited to add: I don't know what they are up to but why use all that bandwith for the same HD channel! Pick one and then put another channel on there.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12232181
> 
> 
> Amazing to me how TW could just move a HD channel (TBS) to a location I would not even of looking at. Think of people who don't even read the forum and think the station is just gone. 600 has nothing to do with the other HD stations we get in the old Comcast market. I am just about done with TW and their poor customer service and might switch to DirectTV. Direct is definitely not shy in promoting their new HD channels.



Woke up this morning and no digital channels. I had to reset my cablecard. Isn't Time Warner great. They must be screwing around in the Elyria area.


----------



## Rambozo

Did anyone else have major PQ and sound breakup on CBS/19 HD last night? On TWC in Akron, we were forced to switch to the SD channel to watch CSI.


----------



## breeze45

Good for you. I asked about cable cards for my Tivo at the local TWC office and was told "We won't put them in a TIVO"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *breeze45* /forum/post/12236496
> 
> 
> Good for you. I asked about cable cards for my Tivo at the local TWC office and was told "We won't put them in a TIVO"



I have no idea who your responding too but I hope you didn't accept that response. The TW reps I have talked to over the phone now seem quite familiar with cable cards and TiVo.


I got the same response when I got the S3 right after it came out last year. I then called another CSR and simply said it was for two HD tv's.


----------



## texasbrit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12226806
> 
> 
> There is a model-specific problem with one Directv receiver that has nothing to do with signal strength. The Model HR20-100 (not the earlier HR20-700) has a software glitch that won't allow it to tune low frequency OTA. This is not just in Cleveland but has been reported by folks in other areas that have a low frequency station (usually 2 or 3). It was originally a problem in the HR20-700, but was later corrected. It has NOT yet been corrected in the -100.
> 
> 
> Luckily, in Cleveland, Directv offers WKYC-DT as part of its package and the quality is close to OTA.



I'm collecting information on this issue from various locations that have a digital station on channel 2 VHF. A number of posters have reported that they can't receive any signal on their DirecTV HR20-100 (not the -700, that's OK) on OTA stations transmitting their digital signal on channel 2 (channel 3 seems to be OK)If you have an HR20-100 with OTA post back and tell me do you receive WKYC OK?


----------



## gilham1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12231938
> 
> 
> New ends on your coax shouldn't improve the picture on your digital channels.




Thanks for the reply.After some thinking last night ,I think the problem is just some of the stations.Last night i kept going back and fourth through diffrent HD channels and it seems that it really made a diffrence on what show I was watching.I watched CSI last night on CBS and it was what I thought HD channels should look like all along.

Thanks again for everyone helping out.

I have another question,With the Tivo do you have to pay any other fee other then your normal cable fee?


----------



## Inundated

Yes, TBS-HD on 600 is standard across NE Ohio's systems, from the Akron/Canton system to the former Adelphia and Comcast systems.


I get the idea they did that at first so they could easily promote it (i.e. for the Indians' playoff run), but it stays on both 600 and (insert "permanent channel" number here, 778 for the former Adelphians).


But I too am guessing that they'll standardize the lineups at some point across the region.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12232069
> 
> 
> That would have been me. Credit due where credit deserved.



Yep, my old thread buddy...when it involves talking about physical damage to crummy cable equipment, your name comes up first!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gilham1* /forum/post/12239927
> 
> 
> I have another question,With the Tivo do you have to pay any other fee other then your normal cable fee?



Yes you do. They have a few packages and I think right now you can get a lifetime subscription with a purchase of a new TiVo HD. I feel it's well worth it.

http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/index.do


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *breeze45* /forum/post/12236496
> 
> 
> Good for you. I asked about cable cards for my Tivo at the local TWC office and was told "We won't put them in a TIVO"



Definitely try again. On the form the TWC reps fill out when you request CableCards, there is a yes/no clicker that asks if this is for a specific Tivo model number. (I leaned over the counter far enough so I could see the screen while the rep was filling it out...) The fact they ask that question should be enough proof to the CSR that TWC does allow Tivos, but you might need to explain it to them. You could also bring up the fact that they're required by Federal law to supply CableCards for any device on CableLab's approved device list, which includes the Tivo product line.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12240224
> 
> 
> Yes you do. They have a few packages and I think right now you can get a lifetime subscription with a purchase of a new TiVo HD. I feel it's well worth it.



The way I understand it, the lifetime subscription offer is only available to current subscribers, not new customers. However, once you're considered a current customer in good standing, the lifetime offer shows up on their "Upgrade your Tivo subscription" screen.


Here's how I see it - sign up for a year ($129), get your account active, and go back in a few weeks and add the lifetime subscription for $399. With a little luck, you might be able to talk the Tivo folks into pro-rating your $129 yearly when you sign up for lifetime.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12241693
> 
> 
> The way I understand it, the lifetime subscription offer is only available to current subscribers, not new customers. However, once you're considered a current customer in good standing, the lifetime offer shows up on their "Upgrade your Tivo subscription" screen.
> 
> 
> Here's how I see it - sign up for a year ($129), get your account active, and go back in a few weeks and add the lifetime subscription for $399. With a little luck, you might be able to talk the Tivo folks into pro-rating your $129 yearly when you sign up for lifetime.



I guarantee they will not pro rate it. The best way to do it would be do a monthly subscription and then upgrade.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *texasbrit* /forum/post/12236929
> 
> 
> I'm collecting information on this issue from various locations that have a digital station on channel 2 VHF. A number of posters have reported that they can't receive any signal on their DirecTV HR20-100 (not the -700, that's OK) on OTA stations transmitting their digital signal on channel 2 (channel 3 seems to be OK)If you have an HR20-100 with OTA post back and tell me do you receive WKYC OK?



No. I've twice complained to D* technical people who claim they then were submitting a trouble report advising that it needed to be fixed in a firmware update. It was "supposedly" fixed in May and then messed up by a subsequent update.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12232200
> 
> 
> Not that D* customer service will be better but they sure as hell have a heck of a lot more to offer then TW does.
> 
> 
> If I didn't have a line of sight problem I'd have left old Adelphia over a year ago.
> 
> 
> BTW the only reason I discovered it on 600 was it was at the end of MLB Extra Innings when it was added and I was cruising around in that area. I was surprised to see it in two spots.
> 
> 
> Edited to add: I don't know what they are up to but why use all that bandwith for the same HD channel! Pick one and then put another channel on there.



The other advantage of D* is that it is one national system and anything they change is immediated detailed on Dbstalk (if not on the D* site).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12244972
> 
> 
> The other advantage of D* is that it is one national system and anything they change is immediated detailed on Dbstalk (if not on the D* site).



Plus with the national system, the playing field is leveled. Everyone has the same channels. Unlike TW, where some markets have lots of HD like HGTV, Food, A&E, History. And some markets like NE Ohio have nothing.


*But of course with a cable system, it all depends on what equipment and technology the head end has.


----------



## jtscherne

WTBS-HD was rushed on for the baseball playoffs and shows very little real HD at this point.


In fact, many of the HD channels added to Directv recently are showing little if any HD. For example, D* added MTV, VH1, and CMT in HD versions on Wednesday, and as far as I know, none of them have shown 1 minute of HD yet and aren't even broadcasting in 5.1. That's pretty much the same with SpikeHD, FXHD, etc.


Is this a bad thing? Not really, since I'd rather have the channels already once the HD starts to show up. In addition, many of the other added channels are offering LOTS of HD, plus D* added a new HD only movie channel (MGMHD) to their BASIC lineup.


Someone over at DBStalk.com asked the other day if there's anything left to add. The current answer is probably not. Biography is starting up in the next few weeks and BBC America has advertised that they'll be adding HD in 2008. The premium channels will also be increasing their HD offerings too, but I'm a little bothered that they aren't consistent about showing movies OAR (Orginal Aspect Ratio).


Sorry for the long-winded response. It's unlikely that cable will be able to compete with the HD offerings of satellite when the satellite companies can increase their bandwidth by launching another bird.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12237783
> 
> 
> It looks like TBS-HD on channel 600 is standard across NE Ohio. Even on the Akron system, we have TBS-HD in two places; channel 546 and channel 600.
> 
> 
> Maybe there are plans to standardize all the line ups by having HD in the
> 
> 600s? I'm not really sure why they would start with TBS. It is odd that they have TBS in two places, yet they still don't have WBNX-HD. WBNX-HD shows more HD than TBS, considering not one show on TBS has been HD since baseball ended. The proof of this was last Friday. The Wizaed of Oz was on TNT and TBS, so I checked both channels. ON TNT-HD, the movie was in OAR and the PQ was fantastic. On TBS-HD, it was in stretch-o-vision and looked horrible.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12245410
> 
> 
> It's unlikely that cable will be able to compete with the HD offerings of satellite when the satellite companies can increase their bandwidth by launching another bird.



Absolutely wrong. Cable will be able to compete. Three words: Switch Digital Video.


Now having said that does that mean they will be competing in our area soon? I doubt it. But I think in other areas of the country you will see it happening.


Before it happens here it will happen in Cincinnati where I believe they have all their stations aligned on the same channels (terryforster, I know you're reading). That's what needs to be done here first and it's my personal belief that they are having difficulty pulling that off.


And what I wouldn't give to have FX in HD. They've got great shows on that network.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12245649
> 
> 
> Absolutely wrong. Cable will be able to compete. Three words: Switch Digital Video.
> 
> 
> Now having said that does that mean they will be competing in our area soon? I doubt it. But I think in other areas of the country you will see it happening.
> 
> 
> Before it happens here it will happen in Cincinnati where I believe they have all their stations aligned on the same channels (terryforster, I know you're reading). That's what needs to be done here first and it's my personal belief that they are having difficulty pulling that off.
> 
> 
> And what I wouldn't give to have FX in HD. They've got great shows on that network.



I'm not so sure cable will be able to compete. SDV relies on the supposition that not all the people are watching all the channels at the same time. It doesn't add any bandwidth to an already limited system. Meanwhile the satellite companies are actually ADDING bandwidth to their system with NEW satellites, not cannibalizing or playing tricks (SDV) with the limited bandwidth they have. Also cable really needs to go to the more effiecient MPEG4 if they want to compete - do you see them swapping out all those cable boxes anytime soon?


I'm down in Florida this weekend and just laughed at Comcast's TV ads promoting "3X" the HD that DirecTV has. What a joke. I've read in another AVS thread that even Comcast FIOS customers can't get all the HD channels because of a bad engineering decision Comcast made with FIOS. Cable has big problems, IMO.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12245410
> 
> 
> WTBS-HD was rushed on for the baseball playoffs and shows very little real HD at this point.



True. I don't know if they've shown ANY HD since the baseball playoffs, to be honest. Have they?


Oh, just nitpicking here, it's no longer "W"TBS. TBS is now officially a separate cable network from its long-time broadcast "parent", the now-former WTBS/17 in Atlanta.


Channel 17 in Atlanta is now locally-oriented independent "Peachtree TV", and I think carries the calls WPCH-TV.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12246100
> 
> 
> I've read in another AVS thread that even Comcast FIOS customers can't get all the HD channels because of a bad engineering decision Comcast made with FIOS. Cable has big problems, IMO.



Umm, when did Comcast start offering FIOS? I thought that was exclusively from Verizon.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12246338
> 
> 
> True. I don't know if they've shown ANY HD since the baseball playoffs, to be honest. Have they?
> 
> 
> Oh, just nitpicking here, it's no longer "W"TBS. TBS is now officially a separate cable network from its long-time broadcast "parent", the now-former WTBS/17 in Atlanta.
> 
> 
> Channel 17 in Atlanta is now locally-oriented independent "Peachtree TV", and I think carries the calls WPCH-TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm, when did Comcast start offering FIOS? I thought that was exclusively from Verizon.




Oops, you got me there, it is Verizon with FIOS. But the point being even with fiber with theoretically unlimited bandwidth, the cable company screwed it up.










IIRC, they encode video using the same QAM encoding as we get on coax, thus no net gain on HD channels.


----------



## hookbill

I know everyone is aware that the Browns are in HD today. A look at www.zap2.it.com indicates that the 2 Fox games are not in HD. However another look at www.titantv.com indicates they are.


So I went to here in our own trusty AVS Forum to see if I can get the correct answer. Both Fox games are in HD today.


Tribune Media (zap2it.com) seems to get this wrong frequently and since my guide data comes from there I would like to see them get it correct.


The double header is on Fox this week so no need to adjust your CBS programs if you are recording.


And from what I can see both Fox and CBS are showing the same amount of HD games.....6 each.


----------



## KennedyJ

I have 0 signal on 19-1 (WOIODT) @ 12:30PM today. I've never had a problem with it before. Does anyone know if they are having issues or something has changed?


Thanks!


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/12250441
> 
> 
> I have 0 signal on 19-1 (WOIODT) @ 12:30PM today. I've never had a problem with it before. Does anyone know if they are having issues or something has changed?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Same with Time Warner Cable in Elyria.


----------



## GregF2

Same here in Amherst. SD channel works fine. Is this a TW issue?


----------



## edjrwinnt

I cannot get WOIO over OTA either.


----------



## ParsonsBri

Somebody call them! (I am painting!)

I get no signal on Directv WOIO or OTA. They are down.


C'mon guys!


I wonder if I will be able to get the NFL ST feed. Wont know till 1pm.


----------



## Sfancik

Seems to be back.


----------



## Sfancik

At least OTA is working at 12:52 from Akron.


----------



## hookbill

Going off topic a bit, but is it my imagination or are these announcers trying to find any way possible to put in the minds of viewers that the Browns have no business winning this game?


----------



## Smarty-pants

It does not matter if it's the Browns, Indians, Cavs, ect...

No (supposedly neutral) commentator what-so-ever in existance will give any Cleveland team any real due respect. If the Browns score, then it's lazy defense by Baltimore. It's just the same thing over and over again. They actually have given Cribbs some credit though. Although they don't really have a choice on that one.

Did you hear them actually go out of their way to state that the guy wearing an orange scarf is not doing so to support Cleveland? Unbelievable.


----------



## paule123

What an ending. I don't think the announcers or the officials on the field exactly knew what the rulebook said in that situation (field goal bouncing back out)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12252269
> 
> 
> What an ending. I don't think the announcers or the officials on the field exactly knew what the rulebook said in that situation (field goal bouncing back out)



Got to be the strangest football game I've seen in my 55 years. Browns should have won that game a heck of a lot easier then they did.


Now to get on topic and justify my comments, pq was excellent as was the sound.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Surprisingly the announcers started praising the Browns a little more after we made comments here. hmmm...


About five seconds after the field goal, I was screaming at the tv that it went through and bounced back. I thought, how the heck can no one else see that? Then, finally they figured it out.


The pic looked good for me when it was not malfuntioning. There were 2 times in the beginning of the game when everything went black for a minute and I had to switch to sd. Also throughout the game, the pic kept pixelating slightly throughout the game. Just little blips here and there. Not like last week when the pixelization was so bad that I had to watch half the game in sd. I'm watching on TW via QAM in Canton.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12252433
> 
> 
> Surprisingly the announcers started praising the Browns a little more after we made comments here. hmmm...
> 
> 
> About five seconds after the field goal, I was screaming at the tv that it went through and bounced back. I thought, how the heck can no one else see that? Then, finally they figured it out.
> 
> 
> The pic looked good for me when it was not malfuntioning. There were 2 times in the beginning of the game when everything went black for a minute and I had to switch to sd. Also throughout the game, the pic kept pixelating slightly throughout the game. Just little blips here and there. Not like last week when the pixelization was so bad that I had to watch half the game in sd. I'm watching on TW via QAM in Canton.



I didn't see that at all. However during half time there were some sound drop offs but in my book that doesn't count. Watching TW via S3.


On the announcers the one who said they needed at least 30 to win was right on the money. I don't think they will get to the playoffs this year but I think if they can improve their defense next year they may have a chance. Their secondary is a bit weak.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12252668
> 
> 
> I didn't see that at all. However during half time there were some sound drop offs but in my book that doesn't count. Watching TW via S3.
> 
> 
> On the announcers the one who said they needed at least 30 to win was right on the money. *I don't think they will get to the playoffs this year* but I think if they can improve their defense next year they may have a chance. Their secondary is a bit weak.



A stat flashed during the game on CBS stated that the Browns have the easiest remaining schedule throughout the remainder of this season. Couple that with the Steelers loss to the Jets and we are only 1 game out of first place in the AFC North. A Wild Card bid is a definite reality with our record and even the AFC North title is within reach as the Steelers still have to face the Patriots and Jacksonville this year.


Oh BTW, the WOIO CBS 19.1 broadcast via D* contained no interruptions in picture or audio here in good ol' Lyndhurst, Ohio. ( 28th best place in the U.S. to raise a family according to Business Week as reported in The Plain Dealer on Saturday.







)


----------



## texasbrit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12244944
> 
> 
> No. I've twice complained to D* technical people who claim they then were submitting a trouble report advising that it needed to be fixed in a firmware update. It was "supposedly" fixed in May and then messed up by a subsequent update.



You won't like the results of my survey. The HR20-100 receives stations broadcasting on VHF-lo channel 2 OK. Posters from Tallahassee (WTWC) and Grand Rapids (WWMT) report no problem in receiving their channel 2 VHF-lo digital station with the HR20-100. So it looks like you will have to look for some other reason why you are not receiving WKYC.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *texasbrit* /forum/post/12256557
> 
> 
> You won't like the results of my survey. The HR20-100 receives stations broadcasting on VHF-lo channel 2 OK. Posters from Tallahassee (WTWC) and Grand Rapids (WWMT) report no problem in receiving their channel 2 VHF-lo digital station with the HR20-100. So it looks like you will have to look for some other reason why you are not receiving WKYC.



Thanks. Very interesting; but hard to understand.


I have an outdoor antenna and am only 6 miles directly south of the antenna farm. All my signals are strong. I can receive 3-1 (with the same coax feed) on my internal Sony SXRD antenna or on my old HR10-250; and could even with the Samsung STB and 1st generation Mitsubishi STB (5-6 years ago). Only the HR20-100 won't receive the signal (both of mine show "searching for signal"). The HR20 receives all the others.


----------



## DaMavs

Do note that since the Steelers swept the Browns it's essentially a 1.5 game Pittsburgh lead in the division. i.e. a tie and the Browns still lose the division. Given the weak schedule, the playoffs certainly would seem a possibility presuming they can close 4-2. When was the last time all 3 Cleveland teams made the playoffs?


Hmmm...Now that I think about it - it's never happened. Kind of amazing. The only Browns playoff appearance since the Tribe started actually making the playoffs was in '02 when the Tribe missed. And of course going back to when the Tribe last made the playoffs before the '90s (1954) the Cavs didn't exist.


On the D* HDR20-100 question. I've had 3 different HDR20-100's hooked up to OTA antennas and NONE received 3-1. 2 different HD Tivos and 2 OTA TV tuners all received 3-1 with that setup so I'm certain the blame lies w/the HDR20. Given the MPEG4 HD locals, it's not that huge a deal to me though...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12256655
> 
> 
> Thanks. Very interesting; but hard to understand.
> 
> 
> I have an outdoor antenna and am only 6 miles directly south of the antenna farm. All my signals are strong. I can receive 3-1 (with the same coax feed) on my internal Sony SXRD antenna or on my old HR10-250; and could even with the Samsung STB and 1st generation Mitsubishi STB (5-6 years ago). Only the HR20-100 won't receive the signal (both of mine show "searching for signal"). The HR20 receives all the others.



I can *see* WKYC's tower out my back window and have problems at times. There must be multipath issues with their digital signal. I know their analog signal was bad for years when I lived in Seven Hills (at the top of the hill where you would not expect any multipath problems). One day WKYC-TV's picture improved and the very next day COX Cable had to come out and rewire my neighbor's house due to new interference from WKYC.


My E* 921 has issues with WKYC-DT, but at least slight adjustments to the rabbit ears fixes the problem. It's not worth the investment in a VHF only antenna for WKYC since they will be moving to ch 17 in '09. I have no problems with WOIO-DT even though virtually everyone else does.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12256655
> 
> 
> Thanks. Very interesting; but hard to understand.
> 
> 
> I have an outdoor antenna and am only 6 miles directly south of the antenna farm. All my signals are strong. I can receive 3-1 (with the same coax feed) on my internal Sony SXRD antenna or on my old HR10-250; and could even with the Samsung STB and 1st generation Mitsubishi STB (5-6 years ago). Only the HR20-100 won't receive the signal (both of mine show "searching for signal"). The HR20 receives all the others.



DaMavs and rlb, thx for posting your results with 3-1 on the HR20-100s. Just to follow up is anyone receiving 3-1 with the D* receiver?


It's possible the problem is only with the HR20-100s(and not the -700). Is anyone in Cleveland using the HR20-700 connected to ota?


thx, Tom


----------



## jtscherne

Yes, the problem is only the -100. I have an HR20-700 connected OTA and receive Channel 3 quite well. However, when I first got the unit back in March, Channel 3 would not come in. A later software upgrade corrected the problem.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/12259292
> 
> 
> DaMavs and rlb, thx for posting your results with 3-1 on the HR20-100s. Just to follow up is anyone receiving 3-1 with the D* receiver?
> 
> 
> It's possible the problem is only with the HR20-100s(and not the -700). Is anyone in Cleveland using the HR20-700 connected to ota?
> 
> 
> thx, Tom


----------



## paule123

Just to stir the pot a bit







...


I read an article today that said the new CEO of Time Warner who takes the helm on Jan 1 is interested in selling off the cable business. The business requires too much capital expenditure on upgrades, maintenance, etc. Looks like 2008 could be interesting for you TWC folks...


----------



## hookbill

Paule123 you've been around long enough to know that when you make those type of comments you really should post a link to support what you said. I'm not saying you didn't read that, but I'd like to see the entire text of what was written. Further I've never read anything previously other then what TW's goals were to make more HD available.


It's OK to stir the pot, heaven knows I do it as often as possible.







But give a little backbone to your statement.


----------



## HD MM

It appears the Browns have started to gain more respect around the league. This weeks Houston @ Cleveland game will be in HD again on CBS. Looks like the teams that got snubbed is the Tennessee @ Cincinnati game. My how things change......


See link: here.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12266470
> 
> 
> Paule123 you've been around long enough to know that when you make those type of comments you really should post a link to support what you said. I'm not saying you didn't read that, but I'd like to see the entire text of what was written. Further I've never read anything previously other then what TW's goals were to make more HD available.
> 
> 
> It's OK to stir the pot, heaven knows I do it as often as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But give a little backbone to your statement.



I read it in an article in this week's Economist which is not posted on their website yet for reference, but you can see a lot of hits in Google relating to the "common wisdom" from the Wall St. analysts...

http://www.google.com/search?q=time+...x=&startPage=1


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12259336
> 
> 
> Yes, the problem is only the -100. I have an HR20-700 connected OTA and receive Channel 3 quite well. However, when I first got the unit back in March, Channel 3 would not come in. A later software upgrade corrected the problem.



ok, good thx for posting. I thought someone had said they received 3-1 with a -700. To make things more strange, TexasBrit has confirmed the others receiving digital 2 are using HR20-100s. Maybe there's something different about the signal coming from WKYC-DT on digital 2 that trips up the HR20-100.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/12168329
> 
> 
> Yo' You's,
> 
> 
> The Channel 61 tower has an extinguished top light. I can't find any "Contact Us"
> 
> link on thier web page. Phone number goes unanswered. P*sses me off. Fax works,
> 
> this place makes Raycom look like "Diamond Jim".



Hey Intermod,

I see that WQHS finally fixed their top tower light. That only took around 11 days.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/12259292
> 
> 
> DaMavs and rlb, thx for posting your results with 3-1 on the HR20-100s. Just to follow up is anyone receiving 3-1 with the D* receiver?
> 
> 
> It's possible the problem is only with the HR20-100s(and not the -700). Is anyone in Cleveland using the HR20-700 connected to ota?
> 
> 
> thx, Tom



I have the HR20-700 and have no problem receiving 3-1 via OTA. Antennaweb has me 29.8 miles from the transmitter.


----------



## intermod

Hooray!


Yeah, I noticed that last night, Yet another thing to be thankful for!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12271753
> 
> 
> Hey Intermod,
> 
> I see that WQHS finally fixed their top tower light. That only took around 11 days.


----------



## schandorsky

I found two new channels on my QAM tuner, WKYC and WUAB, both 480i and separate from their HD and analog channels. This is on Time Warner in the Elyria area. I wonder what they are up to now?

WUAB-HD 84.6, WUAB-SD 84.2

WKYC-HD 84.3, WKYC-SD 84.1


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/12273508
> 
> 
> I have the HR20-700 and have no problem receiving 3-1 via OTA. Antennaweb has me 29.8 miles from the transmitter.



I'd sure like to know what the difference is between the -100 and the -700 that causes this difference. We have 2 HR20-100s and neither are able to receive 3-1. Maybe they'll fix it in a sw update. Thx for posting.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12283077
> 
> 
> I found two new channels on my QAM tuner, WKYC and WUAB, both 480i and separate from their HD and analog channels. This is on Time Warner in the Elyria area. I wonder what they are up to now?
> 
> WUAB-HD 84.6, WUAB-SD 84.2
> 
> WKYC-HD 84.3, WKYC-SD 84.1




Let's hope two more weather channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12283077
> 
> 
> I found two new channels on my QAM tuner, WKYC and WUAB, both 480i and separate from their HD and analog channels. This is on Time Warner in the Elyria area. I wonder what they are up to now?



TWC/ex-Adelphia Cleveland has had this for a while. They sub the analog channels with digital SD if you have a non-HD digital cable box. We spent about a week trying to figure this out here.










The low-number channels (3/5/8 and 4/6 for 19/43) will also feed this digital SD even on HDTV cable boxes, with of course the HD versions feeding up in the HD channels.


Since the analog channels have to go SOMEWHERE on the box, TWC sticks 'em up in the 800 series (803, etc.).


The only people who see the analog versions of the local channels in their "usual home" (lower channels) are those without any cable box. But they don't have SD digital/480i versions of some of the locals, like 23, 25, 49 or 55...


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12283768
> 
> 
> TWC/ex-Adelphia Cleveland has had this for a while. They sub the analog channels with digital SD if you have a non-HD digital cable box. We spent about a week trying to figure this out here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The low-number channels (3/5/8 and 4/6 for 19/43) will also feed this digital SD even on HDTV cable boxes, with of course the HD versions feeding up in the HD channels.
> 
> 
> Since the analog channels have to go SOMEWHERE on the box, TWC sticks 'em up in the 800 series (803, etc.).
> 
> 
> The only people who see the analog versions of the local channels in their "usual home" (lower channels) are those without any cable box. But they don't have SD digital/480i versions of some of the locals, like 23, 25, 49 or 55...



Thanks for the info. These channels just came up in the last week or so. The weather channels are the 110,s I believe. Up to this time Time Warner in Elyria didn't have anything scrambled, so we got everything in the clear. Now with the exception of TBSHD, local HD channels, and the analog everything else is gone without the use of a cablebox or cablecard.

I wonder if they are going all digital, if that is possible or legal?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12284020
> 
> 
> Now with the exception of TBSHD, local HD channels, and the analog everything else is gone without the use of a cablebox or cablecard.
> 
> I wonder if they are going all digital, if that is possible or legal?



Possible, sure - I just think it's highly unlikely any time soon. I'm sure the cable companies get a good bit of cash from basic subscribers who don't have or want to pay for a box. If they went all digital, they would need to convince these people to buy QAM-capable TVs or sign up for a box. I don't think that would go over very well, and could push a lot of users towards satellite. All depends on the monthly bill...


Legally, they have a lot of latitude, but they can't encrypt the local channels (which I believe includes HD), and I'm guessing that getting rid of the analog locals (essentially "encrypting" them for anyone who doesn't have digital capability) would raise related questions.


That's my understanding of things, which I REALLY hope is true. If so, when TWC finally gets around to implementing SDV, the locals would be exempt from SDV, and my PC QAM HD cards won't go belly-up.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, here in the old Adelphia system, TWC has kept the unencrypted digital channels on QAM, and even added a couple (TNT-HD) for whatever reason.


It seems to dovetail with what kind of channels they are. The ones they don't encrypt are all basic tier HD stuff.


I suspect the last poster is right, that they can't encrypt the locals. There's been some back and forth about whether that means they can't encrypt local HD channels, but that's generally the practice. Anything else is "gravy", and TWC Elyira can (as far as I can figure) encrypt whatever it wants outside the locals.


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cleveland just added the NFL-HD channel for tonights football game.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12285969
> 
> 
> I suspect the last poster is right, that they can't encrypt the locals. There's been some back and forth about whether that means they can't encrypt local HD channels, but that's generally the practice.



I found an FCC bulletin released Sep 11, 2007 that talks about this. It confirms that cable operators are required to convert digital feeds of local channels to analog delivery until at least 2012. Near the end of the document is the following:



> Quote:
> While the item provides cable operators with flexibility, the FCC reaffirmed the requirement that cable systems must carry high definition (“HD”) broadcast signals in HD format and reaffirmed its current material degradation standard. Cable operators must carry broadcast signals so that the picture quality is at least as good as the quality of any other programming carried on the system.



Given the spirit of the document, I believe this section requires the cable ops to deliver the HD feeds w/o encryption - the opening statement says:



> Quote:
> All cable subscribers, including those with analog TV sets, can view broadcast television after the transition to digital television occurs



Document can be found at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-276576A1.pdf 


A related article can be found at http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/...-cable-co.html


----------



## hookbill

I read Inundateds comments as well and I was a bit puzzled by what he said about encryption of broadcast HD. Cable companies, as mnowlin points out, cannot encrypt broadcast HD signals.


However everything else is fair game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12292277
> 
> 
> I read Inundateds comments as well and I was a bit puzzled by what he said about encryption of broadcast HD. Cable companies, as mnowlin points out, cannot encrypt broadcast HD signals.



I think the question was - can cable operators offering unencrypted QAM feeds of the locals in SD format, like pointed out here (and like TWC does on its other systems), encrypt the HD versions of the locals?


I'm not altogether sure the argument above prevents it. The locals in SD in unencrypted QAM could allow the cable operator to say they make the local stations available unencrypted, no?


From the Wired link:



> Quote:
> To avoid such Poltergeistian scenarios, the FCC is giving cable operators two choices, neither of which they want. Providers can either carry the digital signal in analog format (which basically means carrying three versions of a single channel, hence the bandwidth worries), or they can offer digital standard definition only and hand out converter boxes to all their subscribers -- the super expensive alternative.



None of this, and even the other quoted above, deals with QAM or carrying the channels in the clear.


If they keep the three versions (analog, digital SD and digital HD), the unencrypted signal could well "legally" be the analog version.


If they keep only digital SD and dump analog, they'd be required - if the above is right - to give digital converter boxes (presumably without a monthly fee, since that'd be "giving away").


I see nothing in either the FCC document or the Wired story that references clear QAM, and the second would seem to indicate that universally available, free digital converter boxes would count for access standards. And none of this talks about HD feeds being in clear QAM, unless I missed something.


----------



## Valnar

I just got a HDTV and let the TV auto-setup the channels. I have WOW basic CableTV. No HD package. This TV found all my local unencrypted QAM channels except one (I assume). It didn't find the Fox 8 HD channel.


Can anyone tell me where it's supposed to be?


Thanks,

Robert


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/12303522
> 
> 
> I just got a HDTV and let the TV auto-setup the channels. I have WOW basic CableTV. No HD package. This TV found all my local unencrypted QAM channels except one (I assume). It didn't find the Fox 8 HD channel.
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me where it's supposed to be?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert



WJW is currently on channel 101-202. Here's a link with other channels you may be able to get:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post12224971


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12303992
> 
> 
> WJW is currently on channel 101-202. Here's a link with other channels you may be able to get:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post12224971



Ah, thanks for the link. HD sure looks nice. Watching The Incredibles right now.


Robert


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/12304535
> 
> 
> Ah, thanks for the link. HD sure looks nice. Watching The Incredibles right now.
> 
> 
> Robert



"The Incredibles" is really an Easter Egg. To see a movie on TV in HD and OAR is rare. Usually it's 4:3 with sidebars or 16:9 cut to eliminate the letterbox bars. The movie is 2.35:1 and it is nice to see it shown that way.


With the writers' strike, I hope to see more properly shown movies on TV. Unless people b*tch about the bars on the screen. If you like good HD and properly shown movies, check out the link in my signature.










I correct myself. There are no "bars" on the screen. All it is is leftover screen because the size of the picture is different than the size of the screen. If NBC had shown the movie "double letterboxed" on the SD channel, keeping it in 2.35:1, you would actually be seeing 30-40% *MORE* than on the chopped 4:3 version.


----------



## JJkizak

The "Incredibles" was shown correctly OTA with black bars on top/bottom, 2.35 x 1.


----------



## toby10

ajstan99: Thanks for the great info. I am also on WOW and had no idea many of these channels were available via Clear QAM. If you find any new ones or channel changes in the future, do post so.


Many thanks!


----------



## mavtv

Speaking of subchannels, I wonder when WBNX will get around to putting something on 55-2. I've scanned them several times and 55-2 keeps showing up but with nothing on.[/quote]


At one point WBNX promised that another channel was coming. The anouncement was made on the 90 and 9 club. That was in June 2005 when they got the rights to friends. I also remember them doing a segment on the now defunt heart to heart with Annie and Al on how with digtal television they could do so many things with a digital signal and that was in 2003. I have noticed a few changes on ch 55.


One of the on air hosts Niel is no longer on the WBNX website, Ronnie Duncon has left both WBNX' slammin jammin sportscast and WERE/1490. I heard Ronnie has left Cleveland for Baltimore where he was orginally from. I also notice that there is a new general manager replacing Annie Kieth.


With all of this could Ernest Angley be in the process of selling ch 55 or at least considering it? With ch 8 still on the selling block and only Oak Hill Capital led by radio maverick Randy Michaels of clear channel fame having any intrest at all, could Ernest be thinking how much money he could get for WBNX. Besides The CW and Ernest Angley is not a perfect fit considering that the CW does feature a program that has the antichrist buying the soul of a slacker who becomes his bounty hunter. To see the TV show Reaper airing on a TV station that is owned by a Christian evangelist faith healer it makes me wonder what his plans are.


I would assume that both ch 3 and ch 5 would love to have a NBC/CW or ABC/CW duolopy where they could hit 2 different demographics and be able to sell ads for 2 different stations. Since Cleveland only has one duolopy in ch 19/43, and Raycheap has found a niche on running those two stations into the ground at the same time, why not let a respectable broadcaster have a chance at owning two different stations? What's the worse that could happen anyway.


For WKYC, this would be a dream come true where they could either do a Cleveland 10 PM news or move the Akron/Canton new from Time Warner ch in the Akron system to WBNX where they could get increased coverage from the OTA signal. In addition, they could place either Indians or Browns games on ch 55 so they do not have to preempt NBC programming as much as they do.

http://www.wbnx.com/station_information.php


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mavtv* /forum/post/12311484
> 
> 
> I would assume that both ch 3 and ch 5 would love to have a NBC/CW or ABC/CW duolopy where they could hit 2 different demographics and be able to sell ads for 2 different stations. Since Cleveland only has one duolopy in ch 19/43, and Raycheap has found a niche on running those two stations into the ground at the same time, why not let a respectable broadcaster have a chance at owning two different stations? What's the worse that could happen anyway.
> 
> 
> For WKYC, this would be a dream come true where they could either do a Cleveland 10 PM news or move the Akron/Canton new from Time Warner ch in the Akron system to WBNX where they could get increased coverage from the OTA signal. In addition, they could place either Indians or Browns games on ch 55 so they do not have to preempt NBC programming as much as they do.
> 
> http://www.wbnx.com/station_information.php



I have thought the EXACT same thing! I would love to see a WKYC/WBNX duopoly. The Akron/Canton News on WBNX would be a good idea, plus we would have a strong duopoly. WKYC could dominate WOIO/WUAB on every front. WKYC already beats WOIO at 11pm, then WBNX could beat WUAB(even though friends already beats WUAB's 10pm news).


And it would be nice to see more over the air Indians games. WBNX has three or four strong nights of programming, and WKYC only has Thursday, so preempting wouldn't be a problem.


Now, if only we could get WBNX-DT on cable. And for that WBNX-DT2, I would like to see a digital version of the SD broadcast on WBNX's subchannel, that way we could have a digital WBNX on SDTVs.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12308260
> 
> 
> ajstan99: Thanks for the great info. I am also on WOW and had no idea many of these channels were available via Clear QAM. If you find any new ones or channel changes in the future, do post so.
> 
> 
> Many thanks!



All I can say is "WOW"! It is very pathetic that a smaller company like WOW owns Time Warner in the HD department. WOW has several channels Time Warner does not and they offer more clear QAM channels too.


And speaking of Time Warner, did anyone notice that Time Warner is now putting in their own commercials on the HD feeds of TNT and TBS? I noticed it the other day. The TW commercials are shown in 4:3, the TNT/TBS commercials are stretch-o-vision.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12314256
> 
> 
> And speaking of Time Warner, did anyone notice that Time Warner is now putting in their own commercials on the HD feeds of TNT and TBS? I noticed it the other day. The TW commercials are shown in 4:3, the TNT/TBS commercials are stretch-o-vision.



This has been going on since Adelphia had those stations in analog only. They also do this on WGN.


----------



## azporter

Well, I knew the time had to come.










Our SA8300HD reset a little while back (a week ago, maybe?) and I'm guessing we got a f/w update. It seems now that we get sporadic macro blocking and audio artifacts on playback of recordings. Needless to say, my wife is a bit *ahem* unhappy.










Oddly, live TV doesn't show this issue which really make little sense since it's playing off the drive too.


I was wondering if anybody else has had problems lately...I'm worried that a helpful f/w update has caused these problems. I'm remembering the pain I went through a couple years ago when a f/w update on Cox Phoenix broke my firewire recording. It's painful to get any help from the provider on this stuff.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/12322957
> 
> 
> Well, I knew the time had to come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our SA8300HD reset a little while back (a week ago, maybe?) and I'm guessing we got a f/w update. It seems now that we get sporadic macro blocking and audio artifacts on playback of recordings. Needless to say, my wife is a bit *ahem* unhappy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly, live TV doesn't show this issue which really make little sense since it's playing off the drive too.
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anybody else has had problems lately...I'm worried that a helpful f/w update has caused these problems. I'm remembering the pain I went through a couple years ago when a f/w update on Cox Phoenix broke my firewire recording. It's painful to get any help from the provider on this stuff.



Simple solution. Get rid of the SA 8300 and get a TiVo HD or TiVo S3.


Concerned about SDV? Don't be, they announced today that the dongle, which will convert the TiVo into a two way box will be available by 2nd quarter 2008. In this area I predict we won't see SDV until 2009.


So check around, find a good deal (I recommend the S3 - Why drive a Hyndai when you can drive a BMW?) Get your cable cards installed, then tie that pos SA 8300 to the back of your car bumper and return it to your nearest TW, or whatever cable company your with, local office.


You'll be glad you did!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12323414
> 
> 
> So check around, find a good deal (I recommend the S3 - Why drive a Hyndai when you can drive a BMW?)



I love it when people spend my money.







Are you paying the difference between an S3 and a TiVo HD for me? I'll PM you my address...


Seriously, though, I am thinking about a TiVo HD, and to hear it can get around SDV would probably push me towards getting one.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/12322957
> 
> 
> Well, I knew the time had to come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our SA8300HD reset a little while back (a week ago, maybe?) and I'm guessing we got a f/w update. It seems now that we get sporadic macro blocking and audio artifacts on playback of recordings. Needless to say, my wife is a bit *ahem* unhappy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly, live TV doesn't show this issue which really make little sense since it's playing off the drive too.



I had this same problem, including the bit about live TV. The shows seemed to record correctly, but playback was hit or miss - if a playback started goofing up, you could play it at a different time (or just switch to live TV and then start playback again), and it might work fine.


Only one more recorded show left on my 8300HDC, and then back it goes to TWC to be given to some other unsuspecting sucker...err...customer.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12323414
> 
> 
> Concerned about SDV? Don't be, they announced today that the dongle, which will convert the TiVo into a two way box will be available by 2nd quarter 2008. In this area I predict we won't see SDV until 2009.



I found the following:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6505011.html 



> Quote:
> Major cable operators in the second quarter of 2008 expect to offer an adapter to customers of TiVo's digital video recorders that will give the DVRs direct access to switched digital video



Interesting that it says the cable companies will offer the dongle, which I'm sure means a few extra bucks on my monthly bill. I'd much rather just buy the thing, but I'll take what I can get.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12308260
> 
> 
> ajstan99: Thanks for the great info. I am also on WOW and had no idea many of these channels were available via Clear QAM. If you find any new ones or channel changes in the future, do post so.
> 
> 
> Many thanks!



Hi toby10 - you're certainly welcome, but unfortunately, as of this morning, WOW has now re-encrypted the new channels that recently popped up in the clear. I was hoping that they were going to leave them up to be competitive with TWC's clear QAM channels, but no dice for now.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12328782
> 
> 
> Hi toby10 - you're certainly welcome, but unfortunately, as of this morning, WOW has now re-encrypted the new channels that recently popped up in the clear. I was hoping that they were going to leave them up to be competitive with TWC's clear QAM channels, but no dice for now.



Well, that figures.







I heard some strange, intermittent audio clicking last night on WOW and I'll bet that was them changing the encryption on those channels.


Oh well, back to OTA, but I'll miss HDNET & TNTHD. Let us know if any others pop up.


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12328782
> 
> 
> Hi toby10 - you're certainly welcome, but unfortunately, as of this morning, WOW has now re-encrypted the new channels that recently popped up in the clear. I was hoping that they were going to leave them up to be competitive with TWC's clear QAM channels, but no dice for now.



I just noticed that tonight too. I've had my HDTV for all of 4 days and was enjoying those channels. Got them all scanned and setup -- then WOW pulled them. sigh....


Robert


----------



## HD MM

*Cleveland's HD Channel List updated to add yet another HD channel to D*'s lineup.


This morning D* added Bio-HD. See updated Google Doc: here.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/12322957
> 
> 
> Well, I knew the time had to come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our SA8300HD reset a little while back (a week ago, maybe?) and I'm guessing we got a f/w update. It seems now that we get sporadic macro blocking and audio artifacts on playback of recordings. Needless to say, my wife is a bit *ahem* unhappy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly, live TV doesn't show this issue which really make little sense since it's playing off the drive too.
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anybody else has had problems lately...I'm worried that a helpful f/w update has caused these problems. I'm remembering the pain I went through a couple years ago when a f/w update on Cox Phoenix broke my firewire recording. It's painful to get any help from the provider on this stuff.



I just got an 8300HDC from WOW this weekend and have had problems with audio dropouts. The weird thing is that the dropouts occur at the same spot in a recording when playing back one day (which to me would indicate a problem with the recording), then the next day they're gone.


Example: I recorded House on both Monday and Tuesday night. Went to watch the Tuesday show, but it was unwatchable due to audio dropouts. I then watched the Monday show with no issues. Afterwards, I went back to the Tuesday show, but still had dropouts. This morning, I watched the opening scene from the Tuesday show and the audio was perfect. I was not recording anything else at either time - just watching the recorded program.


The same thing happened with a movie I recorded off StarzHD. Dropouts on playback one day, no problem the next. Maybe the recordings have to ripen before watching?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12336140
> 
> 
> *Cleveland's HD Channel List updated to add yet another HD channel to D*'s lineup.
> 
> 
> This morning D* added Bio-HD. See updated Google Doc: here.



I was discussing all these channels that D* is adding and one individual who is pretty savay in thinking things out and he mentioned that it isn't how many HD channels you make available but what the majority of people want. For example, the vast majority of my viewing HD are on the 4 major networks. If I had the CW there would be only 1 show I would watch in HD right now (2 if I ever get the TiVoHD). Other then that there isn't anything else other then an occasional concert on Mojo or HDNet. During the Summer I watch TNT-HD and TBSHD for baseball playoffs.


Now I'm not saying giving your customers a wide choice of programing isn't a good idea. I'm simply saying that maybe many of the HD channels D* is offering I would never even look at. Biography Channel is pretty good but how much real HD will you get on it?


Just my opinion. YMMV and of course you have the right to come right in and slap me upside my head at anytime.


----------



## jtscherne

I understand your point, but what else are they going to do? They have offered every HD channel available, including some who haven't even started real HD programming. The only thing still missing are more premium channels, many of which are expected in 2008.


Everyone has their preferences. I watch hardly any programming on the four networks, so I'm the exact opposite of you (and it's not an age thing, because I suspect we're reasonably close there). I can find HD programming at many times of the day, including Discovery HD, Science HD, etc. Sports has driven HD almost from the beginning and my DVR is full of premium channel movies and shows.


Network television is not as important as it used to be and this is likely to continue (watch what happens if the writers strike isn't settled soon!).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12336535
> 
> 
> I was discussing all these channels that D* is adding and one individual who is pretty savay in thinking things out and he mentioned that it isn't how many HD channels you make available but what the majority of people want. For example, the vast majority of my viewing HD are on the 4 major networks. If I had the CW there would be only 1 show I would watch in HD right now (2 if I ever get the TiVoHD). Other then that there isn't anything else other then an occasional concert on Mojo or HDNet. During the Summer I watch TNT-HD and TBSHD for baseball playoffs.
> 
> 
> Now I'm not saying giving your customers a wide choice of programing isn't a good idea. I'm simply saying that maybe many of the HD channels D* is offering I would never even look at. Biography Channel is pretty good but how much real HD will you get on it?
> 
> 
> Just my opinion. YMMV and of course you have the right to come right in and slap me upside my head at anytime.


----------



## schandorsky

Time Warner Elyria just move Cspan2 from analog to digital. I wonder if they have more plans to do this to other channels. I believe they are just getting started.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12336535
> 
> 
> I was discussing all these channels that D* is adding and one individual who is pretty savay in thinking things out and he mentioned that it isn't how many HD channels you make available but what the majority of people want. For example, the vast majority of my viewing HD are on the 4 major networks. If I had the CW there would be only 1 show I would watch in HD right now (2 if I ever get the TiVoHD). Other then that there isn't anything else other then an occasional concert on Mojo or HDNet. During the Summer I watch TNT-HD and TBSHD for baseball playoffs.
> 
> 
> Now I'm not saying giving your customers a wide choice of programing isn't a good idea. I'm simply saying that maybe many of the HD channels D* is offering I would never even look at. Biography Channel is pretty good but how much real HD will you get on it?
> 
> 
> Just my opinion. YMMV and of course you have the right to come right in and slap me upside my head at anytime.



I will go out on a limb and say if given the opportunity to have over 58 HD channels at your access, even YOU may stray away from the comfort of the "4 major networks". I have found myself watching obscure programs on channels that I normally wouldn't give the time of day, simply for the fact that it was stunning to look at in HD! Isn't that what HD is all about anyways? Watching stuff you normally wouldn't watch just for the fact that it looks pretty?


Now go trade in that damn TiVo for a chainsaw and start chopping down trees so you can have a clear-line of sight to put up a satellite so you can start basking in all of the HD glory with the rest of us


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12337534
> 
> 
> I will go out on a limb and say if given the opportunity to have over 58 HD channels at your access, even YOU may stray away from the comfort of the "4 major networks". I have found myself watching obscure programs on channels that I normally wouldn't give the time of day, simply for the fact that it was stunning to look at in HD! Isn't that what HD is all about anyways? Watching stuff you normally wouldn't watch just for the fact that it looks pretty?
> 
> 
> Now go trade in that damn TiVo for a chainsaw and start chopping down trees so you can have a clear-line of sight to put up a satellite so you can start basking in all of the HD glory with the rest of us



Actually I don't do that. The reason is that I have so many programs in my TiVo I really don't have time to watch anything else except maybe football on Sundays.


Trade in my TiVo? Blasphemy!


----------



## nippywiffle

Does anyone know if TW in the Cleveland area started encrypting WOIO HD?

I had it working fine on my PC running mediaportal for weeks, and it just recently stopped working. All the other clear QAM HD channels work.


Thanks,

Dan


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nippywiffle* /forum/post/12339221
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if TW in the Cleveland area started encrypting WOIO HD?
> 
> I had it working fine on my PC running mediaportal for weeks, and it just recently stopped working. All the other clear QAM HD channels work.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan



I'm on the east side on old adelphia, QAM. A few weeks ago they moved some channels around on us. After deleting my channel list and rescanning it found the channels. Try a rescan, WOIO is currently working for me on QAM.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12336456
> 
> 
> I just got an 8300HDC from WOW this weekend and have had problems with audio dropouts. The weird thing is that the dropouts occur at the same spot in a recording when playing back one day (which to me would indicate a problem with the recording), then the next day they're gone.
> 
> 
> The same thing happened with a movie I recorded off StarzHD. Dropouts on playback one day, no problem the next. Maybe the recordings have to ripen before watching?



This was one of the more annoying problems I had with my 8300HDC. After a while, I noticed a pattern to it - the busier the machine was, the more significant the dropouts. Watching live TV was usually fine, watching live while recording another show was annoying, and watching a recording from the previous hour while recording two other shows was horrible. (Box recorded a show from 8-9, two shows from 9-10, and during the 9-10 hour you played back the 8-9 show.)


I'm pretty sure the box does a nightly(?) cleanup - at various times late at night, the hard drive got really busy for a while. The next day everything played fine. I'm guessing it does a sort of defragmentation, which would lighten the load on the box.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12337534
> 
> 
> I will go out on a limb and say.....
> 
> 
> Now go trade in that damn TiVo for a chainsaw and start chopping down trees so you can have a clear-line of sight to put up a satellite so you can start basking in all of the HD glory with the rest of us



You go out on a limb, then ask Hook to chop down the tree? That doesn't seem very smart...










About a month ago, one of the neighbor's 80-foot oak trees came crashing down in my front yard. A little minor damage to my roof, but we were overall very lucky. They took down a second tree just to be safe. Funny thing is those two trees coming down created a opening that gives me line-of-sight to the south, but I had already (mostly) convinced my wife to get a TiVo - didn't want to shift gears at that point.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12336456
> 
> 
> I just got an 8300HDC from WOW this weekend and have had problems with audio dropouts.



It's a common problem with the 8300:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909615 


I suspect that it is due to a slow hard drive. I'm still using the 8300 that exhibits this problem, but I've added an external eSATA drive to it, so the problem occurs only very rarely for me now. Eventually, I'll take it back to TWC and ask them to replace it.


I assume that you're using a digital output from the 8300. Just out of curiosity, what receiver does the audio go to?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12347032
> 
> 
> It's a common problem with the 8300:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909615
> 
> 
> I suspect that it is due to a slow hard drive. I'm still using the 8300 that exhibits this problem, but I've added an external eSATA drive to it, so the problem occurs only very rarely for me now. Eventually, I'll take it back to TWC and ask them to replace it.
> 
> 
> I assume that you're using a digital output from the 8300. Just out of curiosity, what receiver does the audio go to?



Jim, I assume you are using the regular SA 8300. I've heard this 8300HDC is very buggy.


Interesting that you mention that adding an eSATA drive has the problem occuring rarely. When I added the eSATA on mine I didn't notice any difference in sound drop offs but what I did notice was that with the eSATA attached it made it more prone to do partial recordings.


It's a very strange machine, as most know I went through 3 of them and had the same problems each time. Yet someone else in the same area will say it doesn't give them too much problem.


I do know how to fix all those problems but I know you all are tired of hearing it.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12347032
> 
> 
> It's a common problem with the 8300:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909615
> 
> 
> I suspect that it is due to a slow hard drive. I'm still using the 8300 that exhibits this problem, but I've added an external eSATA drive to it, so the problem occurs only very rarely for me now. Eventually, I'll take it back to TWC and ask them to replace it.
> 
> 
> I assume that you're using a digital output from the 8300. Just out of curiosity, what receiver does the audio go to?



Thanks for the link, Jim. Looks like I'm not alone. I'm running HDMI to the TV and Optical to an Onkyo TX-SR503. Have tried both the HDMI and the Dolby Digital audio settings with the same results.


The issue seems to be with playback, not recording, as getting a reset signal sent from WOW seems to temporarily fix the problem and give me time to watch at least one recording without dropouts. If I switch to a different recording or a live channel, the dropouts return. SD recordings are always fine. A tech is coming next week to swap it out.


This is my first DVR and it's definitely worth the extra $5 per month ... if it works. Luckily, my expectations going into this were appropriately lowered by others' posts about the 8300s (thanks, Hook!), so my problems aren't a big surprise.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12347610
> 
> 
> This is my first DVR and it's definitely worth the extra $5 per month ... if it works. Luckily, my expectations going into this were appropriately lowered by others' posts about the 8300s (thanks, Hook!), so my problems aren't a big surprise.



$5 a month for the 8300HD ? I've been paying WOW $12.99 a month for that thing!


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12347610
> 
> 
> ...to an Onkyo TX-SR503...




Does your Onkyo drop audio briefly when it switches from DD5.1 to PLII? I have an Onlyo TX-SR573. When we go to a local break out of NBC DD5.1 it will clip the first syllables of the next event while it switches back to PLII. Just curious.


----------



## hookbill

Here is what one person who is a softwear engineer had to say about SARA and the SA8300 (he likes Passport):

*Originally Posted by michaeltscott

SARA, on the other hand is a crude POS that was obviously designed entirely by a group of programmers. Even the fonts are crude hand-made bitmaps created by someone with no art training. The whole thing has all the style and class of a high-school sophomore programming class project, done from scratch by a group of poorly motivated and untalented students. As a professional sofware engineer with long experience in UI design for production systems it offends my sensibilities. It amounts to consumer abuse--like serving up unappetizing slop in a restaurant, for which you charge premium prices.*


Just an FYI.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12347822
> 
> 
> $5 a month for the 8300HD ? I've been paying WOW $12.99 a month for that thing!



I was referring to the difference between the 3250 HD tuner which is $6.99/mo. vs. $11.99/mo. for the HD-DVR. If you're paying $12.99, they may have lowered the price on the DVR by $1.00. Check out the online price list.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/12347920
> 
> 
> Does your Onkyo drop audio briefly when it switches from DD5.1 to PLII? I have an Onlyo TX-SR573. When we go to a local break out of NBC DD5.1 it will clip the first syllables of the next event while it switches back to PLII. Just curious.



I run in PLIIx Movie mode and haven't noticed anything like that with the 3250HD, 8300HDC, or via QAM. I'll pay closer attention and let you know.


BTW, thanks for hanging out here. Wish more of your counterparts did likewise.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/12347920
> 
> 
> Does your Onkyo drop audio briefly when it switches from DD5.1 to PLII? I have an Onlyo TX-SR573. When we go to a local break out of NBC DD5.1 it will clip the first syllables of the next event while it switches back to PLII. Just curious.



I'm not in YT and have not noticed audio drops in DD or PLII for OTA or QAM.


Your system should automatically switch between DD & PLII depending on the audio signal coming in. Mine will sometimes switch from DD to PLII when a commercial is played, then switches back to DD when the program is back on.


Two possibilities that come to mind:


1. Most AVR's have two settings for surround processing. FORCED and AUTO. Auto will auto-detect the signal and select/change the appropriate Dolby mode on the fly. If yours is set to forced your AVR may be set for only one mode therefore having to reprocess/over process the audio to your forced setting causing a momentary delay in audio to your speakers.


2. it may be an audio switching glitch from your NBC station and not a problem with your hardware at all.


----------



## ajstan99

Consider running in Dolby Pro Logic IIx, which can handle the different formats without switching decoders and may likely fix the problem.


Here's an article about choosing your multi-channel decoder from Home Theater & HiFi. See part of the conclusion below:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ix-3-2004.html 

_"More importantly though, a 7.1 system equipped with Dolby Pro Logic IIx as a base takes the guesswork out of what surround decode scheme you should use: Your only choices are "Music" or "Movie", and that is easy to make. Pro Logic IIx will deliver seven main channels for you, regardless of source, without any concern for whether it will sound "right" or "natural". And it will sound right and natural. Leave it at that."_


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12349279
> 
> 
> Consider running in Dolby Pro Logic IIx, which can handle the different formats without switching decoders and may likely fix the problem.
> 
> 
> Here's an article about choosing your multi-channel decoder from Home Theater & HiFi. See part of the conclusion below:
> 
> http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ix-3-2004.html
> 
> _"More importantly though, a 7.1 system equipped with Dolby Pro Logic IIx as a base takes the guesswork out of what surround decode scheme you should use: Your only choices are "Music" or "Movie", and that is easy to make. Pro Logic IIx will deliver seven main channels for you, regardless of source, without any concern for whether it will sound "right" or "natural". And it will sound right and natural. Leave it at that."_



Hmmmmm. I can try that. I only use PL II because I only have 5 speakers. I will try that tonight and see what happens. Thanks. BTW if you want a real earth shaking audio experience, have it switch between STEREO and DD5.1. That's the way it came out of the box. There is much relay clicking and speaker thumping LOL.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12349279
> 
> 
> Consider running in Dolby Pro Logic IIx, which can handle the different formats without switching decoders and may likely fix the problem.
> 
> 
> Here's an article about choosing your multi-channel decoder from Home Theater & HiFi. See part of the conclusion below:
> 
> http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ix-3-2004.html
> 
> _"More importantly though, a 7.1 system equipped with Dolby Pro Logic IIx as a base takes the guesswork out of what surround decode scheme you should use: Your only choices are "Music" or "Movie", and that is easy to make. Pro Logic IIx will deliver seven main channels for you, regardless of source, without any concern for whether it will sound "right" or "natural". And it will sound right and natural. Leave it at that."_



Very true, if you are forced to "guess" (i.e. your AVR does not support auto-sensing, auto-detect or auto-switching). If you must manually select your surround decoder for each source, PLII is the best overall one size fits all.


On the other hand, if your system allows for auto-detect and auto-switching, and your source is standard DD 5.1, let the hardware do it's job. At least on my present & last AVR's, when I would second guess the AVR's selected decoding, I've always had to bow to the machine as making the better choice. Although I have not messed with this in quite some time.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12349746
> 
> 
> Very true, if you are forced to "guess" (i.e. your AVR does not support auto-sensing, auto-detect or auto-switching). If you must manually select your surround decoder for each source, PLII is the best overall one size fits all.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if your system allows for auto-detect and auto-switching, and your source is standard DD 5.1, let the hardware do it's job. At least on my present & last AVR's, when I would second guess the AVR's selected decoding, I've always had to bow to the machine as making the better choice. Although I have not messed with this in quite some time.



Mine auto switches, but since I only have 5 speakers there's a setup that asks you 5 or7 speakers. If you set it to 5 you don't get the option to automatically switch between PL IIx and DD5.1, only PL II and DD5.1. Like I said when it auto-switches it mutes for about 1/2 second during the switch.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/12349803
> 
> 
> Mine auto switches, but since I only have 5 speakers there's a setup that asks you 5 or7 speakers. If you set it to 5 you don't get the option to automatically switch between PL IIx and DD5.1, only PL II and DD5.1. Like I said when it auto-switches it mutes for about 1/2 second during the switch.



Yeah, sounds like your auto-switching isn't switching fast enough.


Having only a 5.1 system (same as me) I'm not sure there would be much if any difference between PLII and PLIIx. From my very limited knowledge of surround decoding & processing, I *think* the only real difference between the two is that PLII is 5.1 and PLIIx is 7.1. So it may not matter to not get the "x" anyway.


What I've always wondered with PLIIx used in a 5.1 system, what is the decoder / processor doing with the extra two channels? Is it still sending the signal to two speakers that don't exist? Is it discarding the two signals? Is the AVR smart enough to realize that it's a 7.1 decoding on a 5.1 setup and down-mixes (bastardizes) the extra two signals and adds them to the two existing surround speakers? *shrug*


----------



## kosar

Hello everyone,


Great forum and thread!


I'm a newbie with HDTV and the antenna. I'm in South Euclid. I purchased the DA-5200 from Radio Shack (indoor/outdoor). I ran a long coax from my TV through the middle of my kitchen and living room and out the front porch and hung it on a plant hook. Everything seemed just fine. I picked up the 4 major networks with consistency. There was an occaisional "blip" here and there, but not too bad. Now, I had Dish Network installed, and they installed this antenna for me up on my roof, and the coax runs into my Dish receiver. Now, the signal fluctuates wildly, from 80-90 to 0, and I get an annoying yellow message on my screen saying the signal is out. This happens over and over again, coming and going.


I'm assuming the antenna I have isn't going to cut it, especially seeing other ones now on the internet, including the Wingard Sensor GS2200, which was suggested to me by the installer when I called them back.


I'm looking for any insight into this and any suggestions. Thank you very much!


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12350091
> 
> 
> What I've always wondered with PLIIx used in a 5.1 system, what is the decoder / processor doing with the extra two channels? Is it still sending the signal to two speakers that don't exist? Is it discarding the two signals? Is the AVR smart enough to realize that it's a 7.1 decoding on a 5.1 setup and down-mixes (bastardizes) the extra two signals and adds them to the two existing surround speakers? *shrug*



Ah, you and chief are 5.1. PLIIx isn't available as an option with a 5.1 setup. If you have 7.1, PLIIx eliminates the need to switch decoders between Pro Logic, Digital, and EX (manually or automatically) when the content changes between 2.0, 5.1, and/or 6.1.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/12350262
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> Great forum and thread!
> 
> 
> I'm a newbie with HDTV and the antenna. I'm in South Euclid. I purchased the DA-5200 from Radio Shack (indoor/outdoor). I ran a long coax from my TV through the middle of my kitchen and living room and out the front porch and hung it on a plant hook. Everything seemed just fine. I picked up the 4 major networks with consistency. There was an occaisional "blip" here and there, but not too bad. Now, I had Dish Network installed, and they installed this antenna for me up on my roof, and the coax runs into my Dish receiver. Now, the signal fluctuates wildly, from 80-90 to 0, and I get an annoying yellow message on my screen saying the signal is out. This happens over and over again, coming and going.
> 
> 
> I'm assuming the antenna I have isn't going to cut it, especially seeing other ones now on the internet, including the Wingard Sensor GS2200, which was suggested to me by the installer when I called them back.
> 
> 
> I'm looking for any insight into this and any suggestions. Thank you very much!



Sometimes it helps if you have the over-the-air antenna directly into your TV's input rather than going through the Dish receiver then into your TV. Of course you wouldn't be able to record any HD locals that way, but you would eliminate the constant annoying yellow messages by Dish.


Also remember, the higher you mount the antenna the better. Unfortunately were you live (me too) there are a lot of BIG trees that seem to constantly interrupt the ability to maintain a stable OTA signal. In my case it was so bad that I went with Direct TV and canceled Dish for the simple fact they didn't provide HD locals and my OTA reliability was bothersome.....


----------



## kosar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12350671
> 
> 
> Sometimes it helps if you have the over-the-air antenna directly into your TV's input rather than going through the Dish receiver then into your TV. Of course you wouldn't be able to record any HD locals that way, but you would eliminate the constant annoying yellow messages by Dish.
> 
> 
> Also remember, the higher you mount the antenna the better. Unfortunately were you live (me too) there are a lot of BIG trees that seem to constantly interrupt the ability to maintain a stable OTA signal. In my case it was so bad that I went with Direct TV and canceled Dish for the simple fact they didn't provide HD locals and my OTA reliability was bothersome.....



Yeah, when I directly connect it to my TV, it is a lot better, but as you said, I can't record it. As far as the trees, all of my trees are behind me, and where I need to point the antenna is a clear shot.


I would've went with DirecTV, but the $199 up front for an HD DVR was bush-league, IMO.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/12350822
> 
> 
> Yeah, when I directly connect it to my TV, it is a lot better, but as you said, I can't record it. As far as the trees, all of my trees are behind me, and where I need to point the antenna is a clear shot.
> 
> 
> I would've went with DirecTV, but the $199 up front for an HD DVR was bush-league, IMO.



Sometimes it takes some sweet talking with the CSR's to get a deal. I got the HD DVR (HR20), HD receiver (H20) and a SD receiver all for an initial $199 out of pocket, however I also received two monthly credits of $10. One for 12 months and the other for 10 months equaling $220 in total credits. They also threw in 3 free months of free HBO, SHO and Starz.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12350553
> 
> 
> Ah, you and chief are 5.1. PLIIx isn't available as an option with a 5.1 setup. If you have 7.1, PLIIx eliminates the need to switch decoders between Pro Logic, Digital, and EX (manually or automatically) when the content changes between 2.0, 5.1, and/or 6.1.



Well, it will be an interesing experiment tonite to turn on 7 speakers even though I don't have them and see if I still get the audio clips. We'll see how smart you guys are.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12350553
> 
> 
> Ah, you and chief are 5.1. PLIIx isn't available as an option with a 5.1 setup. If you have 7.1, PLIIx eliminates the need to switch decoders between Pro Logic, Digital, and EX (manually or automatically) when the content changes between 2.0, 5.1, and/or 6.1.



Well, PLIIx is on my AVR and it's the one that pops up when it auto-detects a 2 ch surround in place of DD. My AVR knows I'm 5.1 as the other surround speaker options (presence, surround backs) are set to NONE in the OSM, yet it has only ever switched to PLIIx if it detects 2 ch surround.


EX is just, again, 2 additional surround speakers I think.


I don't believe the old PLII is even on my AVR as an option (but I'll check).


So, again, I let the AVR do the thinking. If it detects DD, DTS, PCM, MPCM, 2 ch stereo, 2 ch surround, it properly selects and decodes and displays and plays those formats, respectively.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/12351061
> 
> 
> Well, it will be an interesing experiment tonite to turn on 7 speakers even though I don't have them and see if I still get the audio clips. We'll see how smart you guys are.



Smart? HA! Good thing you didn't ask us medical questions!


I don't see where activating 2 speakers that don't exist will eliminate audio drops across the other 5 speakers, but I guess it's worth a shot.


Now that we know your AVR is auto-detecting the audio, I'd suggest two tests:


1. Watch your shows as usual, see what is displayed by auto-detect on your AVR. When the commercial starts (or whenever the audio drops) look at the AVR screen and see if it switched formats (DD, PLII, etc..)


2. Set your AVR to manual (turn off auto-detect) and watch/listen through a couple of commercial cycles in both DD and PLII and see if audio drops again.


If it happens on #1 and not on #2 then your AVR may not be switching fast enough. But, as you indicated this only seems to happen on NBC, I still strongly suspect broadcast problems from the NBC affiliate where they are broadcasting a DD show and non-DD commercials. I often visually catch my AVR switching between audio formats for just this reason.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12351743
> 
> 
> Well, PLIIx is on my AVR and it's the one that pops up when it auto-detects a 2 ch surround in place of DD. My AVR knows I'm 5.1 as the other surround speaker options (presence, surround backs) are set to NONE in the OSM, yet it has only ever switched to PLIIx if it detects 2 ch surround.



I stand corrected then. The Onkyo does not allow PLIIx with only 5 speakers - only PLII. What brand and model AVR do you have?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12352114
> 
> 
> I stand corrected then. The Onkyo does not allow PLIIx with only 5 speakers - only PLII. What brand and model AVR do you have?



Yamaha RX-V2700. PLEASE do not think I was "correcting" you by any stretch! I was just explaining my system and how it works with auto-detect to better understand this stuff.


Believe me, I appreciate your input greatly.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12352235
> 
> 
> Yamaha RX-V2700. PLEASE do not think I was "correcting" you by any stretch! I was just explaining my system and how it works with auto-detect to better understand this stuff.
> 
> 
> Believe me, I appreciate your input greatly.



No worries, buddy. We're all here to help each other.


----------



## JJkizak

My system is 7.1 with a Denon AVR and when it is manually switched to PLII-c the rear two speakers shut off and the center channel comes alive.

JJK


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12353169
> 
> 
> My system is 7.1 with a Denon AVR and when it is manually switched to PLII-c the rear two speakers shut off and the center channel comes alive.
> 
> JJK



Denons work great. I think the anaomoly is with my Onkyo, but I will try turning on the 7.1.


Also toby, it does the same thing with CBS. It's even more annoying for me with them because they're using the metadata the right way and going stereo/DD5.1 for thier own commercials. NBC tells me that is coming for them "soon" but for now it's fixed on DD5.1. Oh, and I AM the NBC affiliate. Of course my bitsttream is perfect.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12352845
> 
> 
> No worries, buddy. We're all here to help each other.



ajstan99, you were correct. While flipping through channels last night I stood right in front of the AVR as it auto-switched between DD & PL. The AVR front panel displays DD & PL (spelled out) in big letters that can be seen from across the room. To the left of the AVR panel, displayed as tiny icons, pops up the DD & PL symbols when each is activated. On some PL feeds a THIRD tiny symbol pops up. This third symbol, which I thought was PLIIx, actually says PCM. These symbols/icons are so small that I actually went out to my car to retrieve my glasses (I'm too stubborn to admit to myself that I require glasses for anything beyond driving).


So, as you stated ajstan99, the AVR should and does "know" if I have 5.1 or 7.1 and activate the appropriate PL or PLIIx respectively.


So now I'm curious, what is the difference between PL, PLII, PLIIx? If PL is 5.1 and the "x" is 7.1, what is the "II"? The AVR manual shows all three as seperate trademarks but has no explanation of the differences.


Thanks again.


p.s. Now that I have seen Dick Goddard with my glasses on, I had no idea he was *that* old!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12357888
> 
> 
> ajstan99, you were correct. While flipping through channels last night I stood right in front of the AVR as it auto-switched between DD & PL. The AVR front panel displays DD & PL (spelled out) in big letters that can be seen from across the room. To the left of the AVR panel, displayed as tiny icons, pops up the DD & PL symbols when each is activated. On some PL feeds a THIRD tiny symbol pops up. This third symbol, which I thought was PLIIx, actually says PCM. These symbols/icons are so small that I actually went out to my car to retrieve my glasses (I'm too stubborn to admit to myself that I require glasses for anything beyond driving).
> 
> 
> So, as you stated ajstan99, the AVR should and does "know" if I have 5.1 or 7.1 and activate the appropriate PL or PLIIx respectively.
> 
> 
> So now I'm curious, what is the difference between PL, PLII, PLIIx? If PL is 5.1 and the "x" is 7.1, what is the "II"? The AVR manual shows all three as seperate trademarks but has no explanation of the differences.
> 
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> 
> p.s. Now that I have seen Dick Goddard with my glasses on, I had no idea he was *that* old!




PL = Pro Logic decodes 2 channel into 4.1


PLII= Reproduces 5.1 channel. Mine has a movie, game, and music.


PLIIx= IN MY EXPERIENCE on my sound system because I have only 5 speakers doesn't do a darn thing different then PLII. It's set up for 7 speakers. However if you do have 7 speakers this will decode Dolby 5.1 to discrete 7.1


In the manual that came with your receiver it should get into somewhat more technical terms. I also have several other settings. I also have NEO 6 which is suppose to reproduce DTS Cinema, and Music.


Info gathered from my Sony manual.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12357888
> 
> 
> So now I'm curious, what is the difference between PL, PLII, PLIIx? If PL is 5.1 and the "x" is 7.1, what is the "II"? The AVR manual shows all three as seperate trademarks but has no explanation of the differences.



PLIIx is a significant decoding improvement over PLII and rolls up the functionality of Pro Logic II (2.0 source - 5.1 output), Dolby Digital (5.1 source - 5.1 output), and Dolby Digital EX (5.1 source - 6.1 output or 6.1 EX Source - 6.1 output), under one decoder that outputs 6.1 or 7.1, depending upon speaker configuration.


If I want to listen to a 5.1 source in 5.1, I could always switch to Dolby Digital, but never have.


When I didn't have PLIIx on my old receiver, my impression was that all Pro Logic formats were inferior and a compromise. I needed to see Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital EX on my receiver for "real" surround and good sound. When I got my new receiver, I shied away from using PLIIx for 5.1 encoded material, until I did some reading and testing and realized that, for me, PLIIx was the preferred decoder for all formats (DTS notwithstanding). In fact, I always wondered what the fuss was about WOIO not being 5.1. I always got great surround effects on CSI when they were 2.0. In fact, it was more irritating when they went 5.1 and the channel mix was out of whack.


Here are some links to Dolby's website that should be helpful:


Dolby Technology (see Surround Sound Expansion section 2/3 down the page)
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno..._overview.aspx 


Dolby Pro Logic IIx Overview
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...logic_IIx.html 


Dolby Pro Logic IIx FAQ
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...IIx_faq_1.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12358588
> 
> 
> I always got great surround effects on CSI when they were 2.0. In fact, it was more irritating when they went 5.1 and the channel mix was out of whack.



You know everyone is entitled to their opinion and while I agree that CSI and other shows were OK with Dolby PLII, now that they have gone to Dolby 5.1 it is just unbelievably great. And for you to say differently, well, I don't think you quite understand what to do.


There is no way that PLII reproduces the direct sound effects that you get from Dolby 5.1, and all of CBS shows have great Dolby sound. A swoosh from back left speaker to front right speaker. What a rush. Can't get that from PLII, not even close.


In regards to WOIO I have found that I need to lower the back speakers down to -4dbs and it creates a perfect sound. Sometimes I have to raise the center speaker up 2db's. I have to make changes everytime I change a station to "correct" for different sound. Usually I raise the back speakers real high for WKYC, but not all shows. Some I can just leave it at 0.


Perhaps I have to make my adjustments because my back speakers are wireless and maybe some folks don't need to make adjustments.


BTW, I thought my explanations of the differences in PL settings was pretty clear. I don't see why a follow up was even needed.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12358704
> 
> 
> You know everyone is entitled to their opinion and while I agree that CSI and other shows were OK with Dolby PLII, now that they have gone to Dolby 5.1 it is just unbelievably great. And for you to say differently, well, I don't think you quite understand what to do.
> 
> 
> There is no way that PLII reproduces the direct sound effects that you get from Dolby 5.1, and all of CBS shows have great Dolby sound. A swoosh from back left speaker to front right speaker. What a rush. Can't get that from PLII, not even close.
> 
> 
> In regards to WOIO I have found that I need to lower the back speakers down to -4dbs and it creates a perfect sound. Sometimes I have to raise the center speaker up 2db's. I have to make changes everytime I change a station to "correct" for different sound. Usually I raise the back speakers real high for WKYC, but not all shows. Some I can just leave it at 0.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I have to make my adjustments because my back speakers are wireless and maybe some folks don't need to make adjustments.
> 
> 
> BTW, I thought my explanations of the differences in PL settings was pretty clear. I don't see why a follow up was even needed.



Easy there, Hook. Please assume that every non-factual statement I make is preceded by IMHO, with an emphasis on the "H". Different people with different systems will have different opinions. I'm trying to be helpful, not make others feel bad. Sorry if I offended you.


Regarding CBS 2.0 vs. 5.1, please read my post again. I wasn't talking about PLII (which I acknowledged as inferior to 5.1), I was talking about PLIIx. Night and day difference IMHO. Swoosh, surround, seven speakers, I got all of it. I've calibrated my system with an SPL meter - maybe that makes a difference, maybe it doesn't.


BTW, I started creating my reply before yours showed up (I edit in Notepad), and then when I went to post, I considered either adding a note acknowledging your post, or editing mine, and incorrectly assumed that since my info was additive, there would be no ruffled feathers. Again, my apologies.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12359061
> 
> 
> Regarding CBS 2.0 vs. 5.1, please read my post again. I wasn't talking about PLII (which I acknowledged as inferior to 5.1), I was talking about PLIIx. Night and day difference IMHO. Swoosh, surround, seven speakers, I got all of it. I've calibrated my system with an SPL meter - maybe that makes a difference, maybe it doesn't.
> 
> 
> BTW, I started creating my reply before yours showed up (I edit in Notepad), and then when I went to post, I considered either adding a note acknowledging your post, or editing mine, and incorrectly assumed that since my info was additive, there would be no ruffled feathers. Again, my apologies.



Had I of realized you were talking about 7 speakers, absolutely I would agree. The idea is that PLIIx is suppose to take Dolby 5.1 and make it into a "simulated" 7.1 experience. I would assume that it wouldn't take anything away from the actual 5.1.


As far as my feelings go, usually I don't complain when someone gives another explantion after I've already done so. But I actually went through the trouble of finding my manual to give a good explanation.







So I admit, I got a little ruffled. However, I get over these things fairly easily so let me apologize as well for my reaction.


----------



## toby10

Well, ruffled feathers or not, thank you both hookbill and ajstan99 for your well thought out responses. I've learned more about Dolby DD & PL from your two posts than I learned in the past 5 years!


To sum up for us technologically impaired:

PL = 2 ch into 4.1

PLII = 2 ch into 5.1

PLIIx = 7.1


Now that I (think) I get this, when I select a DSP for watching a DVD movie (std. DVD, not HD) I've always selected the first DSP under the movie menu that pops up which is PLIIx Movie Standard. As I am playing this on a 5.1 setup, what is the PLIIx doing with the extra two signals that are absent from my system?


It has been my selection of this PLIIx DSP for DVD's that has caused my original confusion into my thinking it was using PLIIx on QAM & OTA digital broadcasts. The tiny "IIx" icon is right above the tiny "PCM" icon. With my apparent worsening eyesight, from a distance, these two blur into looking like the same icon.


Using OTA or QAM in PL, sometimes the PCM is there, sometimes it is not.



*rubs eyes*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12359889
> 
> 
> Well, ruffled feathers or not, thank you both hookbill and ajstan99 for your well thought out responses. I've learned more about Dolby DD & PL from your two posts than I learned in the past 5 years!
> 
> 
> To sum up for us technologically impaired:
> 
> PL = 2 ch into 4.1
> 
> PLII = 2 ch into 5.1
> 
> PLIIx = 7.1
> 
> 
> Now that I (think) I get this, when I select a DSP for watching a DVD movie (std. DVD, not HD) I've always selected the first DSP under the movie menu that pops up which is PLIIx Movie Standard. As I am playing this on a 5.1 setup, what is the PLIIx doing with the extra two signals that are absent from my system?
> 
> 
> It has been my selection of this PLIIx DSP for DVD's that has caused my original confusion into my thinking it was using PLIIx on QAM & OTA digital broadcasts. The tiny "IIx" icon is right above the tiny "PCM" icon. With my apparent worsening eyesight, from a distance, these two blur into looking like the same icon.
> 
> 
> Using OTA or QAM in PL, sometimes the PCM is there, sometimes it is not.
> 
> 
> 
> *rubs eyes*



On my DVD players I always have to go to the "sound" menu and select Dolby 5.1 or DTS. I prefer DTS, YMMV. Lot's of controversy on that.


Using the selection you describe is simulated dolby out of a stereo signal (PCM). When you see PCM while watching tv you are probably seeing an analog broadcast. A digital broadcast usually says Dolby 2.0, however there isn't much difference really in those two signals IMHO.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12359889
> 
> 
> Now that I (think) I get this, when I select a DSP for watching a DVD movie (std. DVD, not HD) I've always selected the first DSP under the movie menu that pops up which is PLIIx Movie Standard. As I am playing this on a 5.1 setup, what is the PLIIx doing with the extra two signals that are absent from my system?
> 
> 
> It has been my selection of this PLIIx DSP for DVD's that has caused my original confusion into my thinking it was using PLIIx on QAM & OTA digital broadcasts. The tiny "IIx" icon is right above the tiny "PCM" icon. With my apparent worsening eyesight, from a distance, these two blur into looking like the same icon.



Out of curiosity, I downloaded the RX-V2700 manual. See page 86. Have you disabled the Surround Back speakers? If you have, then PLIIx should not be available.


Per the manual:


* “PLIIx Movie” is available only when “Surround Back” (see page 106) is set to “Small x2” or “Large x2”.


* The Pro Logic IIx decoder is not available when “Surround Back” is set to “None” (see page 106).


BTW, verrrrry nice receiver.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12360572
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, I downloaded the RX-V2700 manual. See page 86. Have you disabled the Surround Back speakers? If you have, then PLIIx should not be available.
> 
> 
> Per the manual:
> 
> 
> * PLIIx Movie is available only when Surround Back (see page 106) is set to Small x2 or Large x2.
> 
> 
> * The Pro Logic IIx decoder is not available when Surround Back is set to None (see page 106).
> 
> 
> BTW, verrrrry nice receiver.



Yup, sure enough, I had Surround Backs activated within the OSM. Now that I have selected "none" the "x" has gone away. It now properly displays PLII with no "x".


Thanks, it is a nice AVR. It is not without it's issues though. Luckily the major issues (overheating, HDMI, 1080p pass-through) that have been reported have not affected me at all. I don't even have any 1080p content or source to even test this potential problem.


This AVR has transformed and broadened my music listening with it's USB and Networking functionality. All of my CD's are on a single, standalone hard drive as uncompressed WAV's via USB. I haven't turned on my CD player, literally, in over 6 months. The Networking has turned me on to high bitrate Internet Radio. Both USB & Networking features are direct into the AVR, no computer needed. The simple convenience of these two features have probably quadrupled my time listening to music.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hey, is TW cable here in NE OH using HRC or IRC ??


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12347078
> 
> 
> Jim, I assume you are using the regular SA 8300. I've heard this 8300HDC is very buggy.
> 
> 
> Interesting that you mention that adding an eSATA drive has the problem occuring rarely. When I added the eSATA on mine I didn't notice any difference in sound drop offs but what I did notice was that with the eSATA attached it made it more prone to do partial recordings.



Mine is the SA8300HD. I wasn't aware that there was more than one version (unless you meant HD vs SD?).


I've never seen it make a partial recording. In fact, other than the audio dropout problem, the 8300 has been quite reliable for me.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12347610
> 
> 
> The issue seems to be with playback, not recording, as getting a reset signal sent from WOW seems to temporarily fix the problem and give me time to watch at least one recording without dropouts. If I switch to a different recording or a live channel, the dropouts return. SD recordings are always fine. A tech is coming next week to swap it out.



Interesting. In my experience, the dropouts are always at exactly the same points in the playback. So I assume that it IS a recording problem rather than a playback problem. If I play the same program twice, the same exact dropouts occur at the same exact points in the program.


And it only affects certain recordings, though there seems to be no particular pattern as to which ones it occurs on. I don't think I've ever recorded an SD program, so I can't comment on that. But that does tend to support my hypotheses that this problem is due to a slow data rate from the internal drive. SD would have a much lower data requirement.


It might be worthwhile to do some additional analysis. I wonder if it happens only on 1080i, or only on 720p, or only on DD5.1, or some other factor?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12367700
> 
> 
> Mine is the SA8300HD. I wasn't aware that there was more than one version (unless you meant HD vs SD?).
> 
> 
> I've never seen it make a partial recording. In fact, other than the audio dropout problem, the 8300 has been quite reliable for me.



The SA 8300HDC is a "newer" version of the the same model. The difference is that it has cable cards in it.


Cable companies, after using up their existing DVR's had to make these available I believe as of June 2007.


I also understand that it runs a software called "Navigator" and that seems to be the buggy part of it.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12367733
> 
> 
> Interesting. In my experience, the dropouts are always at exactly the same points in the playback. So I assume that it IS a recording problem rather than a playback problem. If I play the same program twice, the same exact dropouts occur at the same exact points in the program.
> 
> 
> And it only affects certain recordings, though there seems to be no particular pattern as to which ones it occurs on. I don't think I've ever recorded an SD program, so I can't comment on that. But that does tend to support my hypotheses that this problem is due to a slow data rate from the internal drive. SD would have a much lower data requirement.
> 
> 
> It might be worthwhile to do some additional analysis. I wonder if it happens only on 1080i, or only on 720p, or only on DD5.1, or some other factor?



I think that the SA 8300HDC is the updated version of the the 8300HD, but with cable card capabilities. (Sorry Hook, couldn't resist!







)


Now that you bring it up, all my HD recordings were on 720P/5.1DD channels (Starz, Fox, ABC). I'll have to try CBS or NBC, although I did use the pause feature on ER this Thursday and had no skips at all on the playback.


** Correction - Starz is 1080i, not 720p as noted in the preceding paragraph **


Just like you, if I play the same program twice, the same dropouts occur at the same points in the program, however, sometimes that program will play flawlessly. Maybe it's a disk fragmentation issue? Do you know if there is a way to reformat or defrag the HD?


Just last night I watched a recorded Starz movie that was skipping so bad I turned it off, went to WOIO for 10 minutes or so, then came back to the movie, which skipped much less frequently for about a minute, then played correctly from that point forward. After the movie was over, I went back to the beginning and this time it played without a single dropout.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12368441
> 
> 
> I think that the SA 8300HDC is the updated version of the the 8300HD, but with cable card capabilities. (Sorry Hook, couldn't resist!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> Now that you bring it up, all my HD recordings were on 720P/5.1DD channels (Starz, Fox, ABC). I'll have to try CBS or NBC, although I did use the pause feature on ER this Thursday and had no skips at all on the playback.
> 
> 
> Just like you, if I play the same program twice, the same dropouts occur at the same points in the program, however, sometimes that program will play flawlessly. Maybe it's a disk fragmentation issue? Do you know if there is a way to reformat or defrag the HD?



Hmmmmm....should I actually try and help this dude?










For all you ever wanted to know about the SA 8300 SARA, including defrag info you can go here .


Don't tell them I sent you. I frequently go over there and laugh at them.


----------



## ajstan99

Thanks, Hook. Looks like I may have to add another subscribed thread.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12365051
> 
> 
> Hey, is TW cable here in NE OH using HRC or IRC ??



IRC/Standard settings will work. IRC includes the +12/+25khz offsets required for aeronautical frequencies.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12371411
> 
> 
> IRC/Standard settings will work. IRC includes the +12/+25khz offsets required for aeronautical frequencies.



I've just gotta ask - what do aeronautical frequencies have to do with a cable TV system ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12371411
> 
> 
> IRC/Standard settings will work. IRC includes the +12/+25khz offsets required for aeronautical frequencies.



Well, I didn't understand the original question in the first place. But after you answer Paule123's question explain to me if you actually answered Smarty-Pants question. He asked whatTW NEO used, not what would work.


Then someone explain what all this mumble jumble is.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12371436
> 
> 
> I've just gotta ask - what do aeronautical frequencies have to do with a cable TV system ?



Signal leakage. Because the cable industry uses some frequencies that fall in the aeronautical bands, there's a potential for interference with radionavigation if there's a strong leak, especially near an airport. This has happened around the country on several occasions.


Because of the potential impact of interference, the FCC passed a rule that requires cable operators to use frequency offsets of +12 khz or +25khz on those frequencies to reduce the potential impact of a signal leak.


This law went into effect in the early 90s.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12367830
> 
> 
> The SA 8300HDC is a "newer" version of the the same model. The difference is that it has cable cards in it.
> 
> 
> I also understand that it runs a software called "Navigator" and that seems to be the buggy part of it.



OK, I checked mine and it does indeed say 8300HDC. However, mine runs SARA, not Navigator.


----------



## pbarach

I saw the following message (from someone in North Carolina) on another thread, and I wondered if anyone here in Northeast Ohio has gotten word from TWC about an upcoming change like this:


"for the past year or more we have been in a transition from adelphia to TWC. i just received a package in the mail outlining all the changes with the new TWC system that is becoming active on Dec.5th. it says they are adding "more than 100 additional channels" best i can tell looking at the channel line up we're getting about 12 more HD channels. also says there will be a new digital guide software that will be pushed through on the 5th."


----------



## tbird2340

I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me..


I live in Poland (Youngstown) and was wondering if any Cav's games were aired OTA. If so, what channel and are they aired in HD?


THanks!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbird2340* /forum/post/12381289
> 
> 
> I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me..
> 
> 
> I live in Poland (Youngstown) and was wondering if any Cav's games were aired OTA. If so, what channel and are they aired in HD?
> 
> 
> THanks!



Very few OTA games. WUAB has a few, but I do not beleive they are in HD. The games on ABC would be HD.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/


----------



## ajstan99

Well, wouldn't you know it, virtually no problems with the 8300HDC on Sunday and two recordings I made last night worked perfectly this morning just in time for the WOW tech to show up.


I did notice that the HDD was running this morning, although the unit had been off since 2am when the last recording finished. Tech said that the box updates itself overnight and is likely running self-diagnostics/repairs. He also said that he had an 8300HDC that started out with problems like mine, and seemed to fix itself after a week or so, and I should just make sure to leave it off at night and allow these updates/fixes to run.


He offered a new box if I wanted one, but decided that it made no sense to start from scratch as the unit I have was also brand new and now seems to be working.


Following the link that Hook provided, I was able to find a post by DoubleDAZ about accessing the diagnostics menu (and a whole bunch of other info he keeps updated):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...52#post4682052 


To access the diagnostics menu, with the unit turned on, press and hold "Select" on front panel until the Mail light flashes, then press the "Info" button. Once in the Diagnostics menu, use the Vol+/- keys to flip through the pages.


As it turns out, the OS for my 8300HDC is SARA v 1.90.5.a103


Page 18 of the menu shows that there are no corrupt files, cross-links, or lost clusters on the DVR. If I'm getting skips again, I'll check this page to see if there are any problems noted.


Finally, I corrected my post below that erroneously stated that Starz HD was 720p. It's actually 1080i, which means that the playback skips occurred on both 720p and 1080i recordings.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12383490
> 
> 
> Well, wouldn't you know it, virtually no problems with the 8300HDC on Sunday and two recordings I made last night worked perfectly this morning just in time for the WOW tech to show up.
> 
> 
> I did notice that the HDD was running this morning, although the unit had been off since 2am when the last recording finished. Tech said that the box updates itself overnight and is likely running self-diagnostics/repairs. *He also said that he had an 8300HDC that started out with problems like mine, and seemed to fix itself after a week or so, and I should just make sure to leave it off at night and allow these updates/fixes to run*.



Just a little advice. Don't get your hopes up too high.


The SA 8300 is what it is. And unfortunately SARA is horrible software. I can't tell you how many times I thought something was "fixed" only to have the problem reoccure time and time again. I probably did everything they have on that SA 8300 page including defrag, reformat etc. Sometimes it seemed to work ok and just as I got comfortable, missed recordings, partial recordings. And I wasn't even aware that the sound drop outs and macro blocking wasn't just part of HD.


Also I have to mention that I went through 3 of them. They all behaved the same.


The fun part of your post was what I bolded. Believe me there is no way that the SA 8300 is intelligent enough to "fix itself." If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Indiana we need to discuss.










As I have stated before, many people even within this area will say they don't have problems with their SA 8300. So I truly wish you the best of luck. I sure didn't have any.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12383619
> 
> 
> Just a little advice. Don't get your hopes up too high.
> 
> 
> The fun part of your post was what I bolded. Believe me there is no way that the SA 8300 is intelligent enough to "fix itself." If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Indiana we need to discuss.



I definitely took your previous posts regarding the 8300 into consideration, but trying it out for only an extra five bucks a month seems worth it. You actually lowered my expectations and, in a backhanded way, set me up to have a better initial perceived experience with the 8300HDC.










In any case, this is my first foray into the world of DVR, and will let me be more informed of my likes/dislikes if I ever decide to purchase one on my own.


I know that you were just having a little fun with your second comment, but pushing software updates is common practice, and it's not that big of a deal to have disk utilities set to automatically run after a specified period of activity, including defrag and recovery/remapping around bad clusters on a disk.


This could support (although not entirely prove) the hypothesis that the skips are a disk read issue, and can be self-correcting. Moving 5-10GB files on a half-full 160GB HDD is a time-intensive task, and could likely take several evenings to resolve.


Or...it could all be false hope, the 8300HDC and its software are terrible, and I'll soon be posting about the dropouts returning.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12381610
> 
> 
> Very few OTA games. WUAB has a few, but I do not beleive they are in HD. The games on ABC would be HD.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/



Additionally every game aired on WUAB is also on FSN Ohio, so the WUAB OTA broadcasts are all simulcasts of the FSN Ohio feed.


There are no exclusive games on WUAB. ABC OTOH are exclusive.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/12375494
> 
> 
> I saw the following message (from someone in North Carolina) on another thread, and I wondered if anyone here in Northeast Ohio has gotten word from TWC about an upcoming change like this:
> 
> 
> "for the past year or more we have been in a transition from adelphia to TWC. i just received a package in the mail outlining all the changes with the new TWC system that is becoming active on Dec.5th. it says they are adding "more than 100 additional channels" best i can tell looking at the channel line up we're getting about 12 more HD channels. also says there will be a new digital guide software that will be pushed through on the 5th."



can you link me to that thread I would love to read up on that


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/12375494
> 
> 
> I saw the following message (from someone in North Carolina) on another thread, and I wondered if anyone here in Northeast Ohio has gotten word from TWC about an upcoming change like this:
> 
> 
> "for the past year or more we have been in a transition from adelphia to TWC. i just received a package in the mail outlining all the changes with the new TWC system that is becoming active on Dec.5th. it says they are adding "more than 100 additional channels" best i can tell looking at the channel line up we're getting about 12 more HD channels. also says there will be a new digital guide software that will be pushed through on the 5th."



Somehow I missed this post.


Anyway there is no way to tell for sure if their situation is even remotely like ours. Remember that not only did TW get Adelphia, they also acquired Comcast. To complicate matters even worst the way Adelphia was operated was like several small companies, which in fact is what it still was since they acquired it from the original companies.


So in order for their situation to be like ours they would have to have the same Adelphia conditions (doubtfull) and the acquistion of Comcast in their area (maybe).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12384182
> 
> 
> You actually lowered my expectations and, in a backhanded way, set me up to have a better initial perceived experience with the 8300HDC.



How in the heck could I have done that? I wouldn't be surprised if GWB new how I felt about the SA 8300, that's how badly I speak about my own personal experience.


I do however always make sure that I either say YMMV or "many others have not shared my experience."


I should also add that many have.


----------



## GregF2

Does anyone notice on TW (Amherst area - old Comcast network), the poor HD signal on TNTHD lately? Watching some basketball games the other night was terrible and watching the Closer tonight is not great either. Seems like macroblocking/pixelation.


Also, where are our new HD channels, sure wish some more would come soon.


----------



## nickdawg

I wonder how much the BJ was paid for this:

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/12029361.html


----------



## lefkas

I live within the city limits of Canton. Any thoughts out there on the best outdoor antenna to use to get OTA HD signals from the Cleveland and Youngstown stations ? I've heard the DA-5200 from Radio Shack and the Wingard Sensor GS 2200 are good. Any other suggestions ? Also, can anyone recommend a good antenna installer in the Canton area ?


----------



## hookbill

According to Ohio Media Watch WJW it appears WJW has been sold to Oak Hill Capital Partners, LLC. The article says they will probably still be a FOX affiliate.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## stuart628

anyone with navagaitor, can you tell me if you can change resoloutions yet if you have hdmi? I had it for a while and its sad but you had to watch everything at the native resoloution....and also sorry I havent kept up, is everything now being digitally simulcast?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12396720
> 
> 
> anyone with navagaitor, can you tell me if you can change resoloutions yet if you have hdmi? I had it for a while and its said but you had to watch everything at the native resoloution....and also sorry I havent kept up, is everything now being digitally simulcast?



Try posting about this here . Just a hint and I'm not trying to be unkind but the wording of your post is a bit confusing. When you post look over what you wrote so people can understand your question clearly.


Who said you have to watch everything in "native" the installer? If that's the case he's probably wrong. Did you look in settings to see if you have "passthrough" or HDMI in your settings?


You may have to do a set up but I'm not sure how it's done with this software. With SARA you turned the 8300 off and pushed guide and info at the same time then a set up wizard appeared. You then would choose advanced and set up whatever you would like, most likely 1080i, 720p, and 480i. When you do that you would see "HDMI" somewhere in the settings but I don't recall where.


The only thing in my area that is digital and analog are the locals.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12398198
> 
> 
> Try posting about this here . Just a hint and I'm not trying to be unkind but the wording of your post is a bit confusing. When you post look over what you wrote so people can understand your question clearly.
> 
> 
> Who said you have to watch everything in "native" the installer? If that's the case he's probably wrong. Did you look in settings to see if you have "passthrough" or HDMI in your settings?
> 
> 
> You may have to do a set up but I'm not sure how it's done with this software. With SARA you turned the 8300 off and pushed guide and info at the same time then a set up wizard appeared. You then would choose advanced and set up whatever you would like, most likely 1080i, 720p, and 480i. When you do that you would see "HDMI" somewhere in the settings but I don't recall where.
> 
> 
> The only thing in my area that is digital and analog are the locals.



its fine, you might not understand that is all. When you watch something with the navagaitor software, you cant choose what resoloution you want to watch it at. You have to watch it at the native (like sd channels equals 480i, espnhd is 720p) instead of choosing one resoloution and letting the box upconvert downconvert, or display native resoloution. When I had time warner (I have dish network now) this was the case, and I was wondering how fast the updates to navagaitor are rolling out, or if this is even going to be a feature as HDCP might play a hand in letting everything go native with HDMI. Also I was asking if all the channels had a digital simulcast yet, while I dont have time warner, I still like to check up just in case I need to come back







Thanks hookbill for that link I will browse through that.


----------



## Reaper0Bot0

Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.


Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job? Outdoor may be tricky, as I rent. I've got an HD-DVD player, but I don't care to buy too many movies at those prices, and I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks.


Is FOX in HD around here?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reaper0Bot0* /forum/post/12401710
> 
> 
> Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job? Outdoor may be tricky, as I rent. I've got an HD-DVD player, but I don't care to buy too many movies at those prices, and I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks.
> 
> 
> Is FOX in HD around here?



Yes, FOX is in HD(and very excellent). All four of our local newscasts are in HD and all six of the major network affiliates are in HD with 5.1 surround. You are actually better off without cable. Teh cable selection here sucks. I don't know that much about antennas(help would be appreciated) but with the right antenna, you should be able to get most of the channels. WKYC-NBC is harder to get because it is on digital channel 2. WOIO has also been a problem since it is on channel 10. And WVIZ is operating on LOW power.


I am also in Akron and VERY unhappy with cable. I'd be interested in hearing how it goes with your antenna. With all my cable box problems, I'm THIS close to dumping Time Warner.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12401860
> 
> 
> I am also in Akron and VERY unhappy with cable. I'd be interested in hearing how it goes with your antenna. With all my cable box problems, I'm THIS close to dumping Time Warner.



I was a short breath away from dumping TWC due to problems with my 8300HDC, but decided to give the Tivo HD a shot. I've had it for a little over a month, and have been very happy with the results. It seems to be far less picky about signal quality, isn't as stupid as the 8300 (Navigator software), and hasn't missed or screwed up any recordings yet. (We have a LOT of shows scheduled every week...)


To be fair, I have an SD SA8300 (Passport software) that doesn't have any problems - I would often have to fall back to watch recordings on it when the 8300HDC goofed up. As far as HD, the 8300 series is pretty horrible. I went through two 8300HD boxes and the 8300HDC within five months, and all of them should have been used for target practice.



Side note: still have the 8300HDC, and in the past 24 hours, it's rebooted three times - gets stuck with "OCAP" on the display. Turn it on, and wait for a few minutes while it's "Searching for signal. This should only take a few minutes." When it finally comes up, there are no DVR functions, no program guide, and the channels are all screwed up - SciFi is on 56 instead of 62, Fox is on 8 instead of 9, WQHS is on 6 instead of 7 (not that I watch it), etc. Power-cycle it, and it comes back up correctly, but reboots again a few hours later...


I'm wondering if TWC is trying to push out new software....


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reaper0Bot0* /forum/post/12401710
> 
> 
> Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job?



I've had the best luck with a 4 bowtie panel antenna for Cleveland...

get by with a 2 bowtie panel for Youngstown... both with UHF preamps...

tried a yagi with corner reflector with no luck...


at a basement efficency in North Canton, antenna is maybe 2 feet above

ground shooting thru a brick wall... judging from the analog reception

I wouldn't think digital would work... but the Cleveland's decode reliably...

receiver is an old Accurian... at both locations where I've used an

inside antenna for DTV I've found that position is very critical...

pretty much have to walk the antenna around looking for an optimum spot...

and that optimum point seems to change a little seasonally...


Ed...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12402271
> 
> 
> I was a short breath away from dumping TWC due to problems with my 8300HDC, but decided to give the Tivo HD a shot. I've had it for a little over a month, and have been very happy with the results. It seems to be far less picky about signal quality, isn't as stupid as the 8300 (Navigator software), and hasn't missed or screwed up any recordings yet. (We have a LOT of shows scheduled every week...)
> 
> 
> To be fair, I have an SD SA8300 (Passport software) that doesn't have any problems - I would often have to fall back to watch recordings on it when the 8300HDC goofed up. As far as HD, the 8300 series is pretty horrible. I went through two 8300HD boxes and the 8300HDC within five months, and all of them should have been used for target practice.



From my understanding Passport was the best software that TW had. The switch to Navigator probably has to do with the fact that they now have to issue out DVR's with cable cards if they are out of the ones that didn't require them.


I had high hopes for SA when they were bought by Cisco (sp?) but they haven't really done much so far. Everywhere I read this Navigator is buggy.


mnowlin is right about the TiVo HD. If you don't want to spend a lot of money but you want a reliable DVR that will give you good quality recordings it is the way to go. I have to mention that right now TiVo is offering lifetime subscription service and while this is expensive, in the long run it saves a ton of money.


I'm not a programmer, developer, or anything like that but I can tell quality from crap. It kind of reminds me of my first new car, the Hyndai Excel. What a pos. I'm not an auto mechanic either but when you drive it you find out.


I will also give a thumbs up to D* as an alternative to cable. I don't know much about there DVR but from what I read it's pretty reliable. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the TiVo HD has but you do get a heck of a lot more HD channels.


Personally if the S3 hadn't have been developed I probably would be writing in an assylum as my wife won't let me cut down the trees.


Then again I'm sure quite a few of you feel I belong there anyway.


----------



## Sesummers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reaper0Bot0* /forum/post/12401710
> 
> 
> I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks. Is FOX in HD around here?



You might consider the "Lifeline" service. TW doesn't like to point out its existence, but for $12.95/mo you can get channels 2..20 (from their analog lineup), and it includes 3,5,8,19,&43 (and a few pointless ones) in unencrypted QAM. (Fox is channel 8.) If you're using a computer as your TV, you can get a QAM capable HD tuner for under $100.


When I lived near UA 25 years ago, antenna reception pretty much stunk. I doubt you'll be able to get good reception without a roof antenna unless you live on a hill.


----------



## HD MM

It appears the trend of the Cleveland Browns being available in glorious HD will continue. As a matter of fact, the Browns have been available in HD 9 of their 14 games so far this season, with a current streak of 7 games and counting!


1. **HD*- Sunday, September 9 vs PITTSBURGH STEELERS CBS 1:00 PM L 34-7

2. *SD- Sunday, September 16 vs CINCINNATI BENGALS CBS 1:00 PM W 45-51

3. *SD- Sunday, September 23 @ Oakland Raiders CBS 4:05 PM L 24-26

4. *SD- Sunday, September 30 vs BALTIMORE RAVENS CBS 1:00 PM W 13-27

5. **HD*- Sunday, October 7 @ New England Patriots CBS 1:00 PM L 17-34

6. BYE

7. *SD- Sunday, October 14 vs MIAMI DOLPHINS CBS 1:00 PM W 31-41

8. *SD- Sunday, October 28 @ St. Louis Rams CBS 1:00 PM W 27-20

9. **HD*- Sunday, November 4 vs SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOX 4:05 PM W 30-33

10. **HD*- Sunday, November 11 @ Pittsburgh Steelers 1:00 PM L 28-31

11. **HD*- Sunday, November 18 @ Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM W 33-30

12. **HD*- Sunday, November 25 vs HOUSTON TEXANS 1:00 PM W 17-27

13. **HD*- Sunday, December 2 @ Arizona Cardinals 4:05 PM L 21-27

14. **HD*- Sunday, December 9 @ New York Jets 4:15 PM

15. **HD*- Sunday, December 16 vs BUFFALO BILLS 1:00 PM

16. Sunday, December 23 @ Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 PM

17. Sunday, December 30 vs SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS 1:00 PM


----------



## jtscherne

December 30th will lilkely be in HD because it will be on Fox.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12407597
> 
> 
> IMO, Passport is THE BEST DVR software on the market.



nickdawg, I will acknowledge that passport appears to be better then SARA but to say it's the best in the market is so wrong I don't know where to begin.


I'd take TiVo or D*'s anyday first.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reaper0Bot0* /forum/post/12401710
> 
> 
> Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job? Outdoor may be tricky, as I rent. I've got an HD-DVD player, but I don't care to buy too many movies at those prices, and I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks.
> 
> 
> Is FOX in HD around here?



From Akron an indoor antenna will have a tough time picking up the Cleveland stations. PBS & TBN are the only digital stations with transmitters in Akron. There is an analog-only ION ch 23.


All the rest come from Parma, a good 25 miles to the north. An indoor antenna may work, but only if you aim it out a north-facing window. Buildings play havoc with radio waves, especially in the UHF band. I live right by the transmitters in Parma and without a window my indoor antenna gets nothing useful for digital.


If you want CBS or NBC those are on VHF. You'll need a large antenna to get WKYC/NBC - it takes an 8' element to tune in rf ch 2 which is their current digital channel. Once the analog TBN vacates ch 17 WKYC will move to 17.


WOIO/CBS is another thing all together. They have a very low power signal on rf ch 10 (they have to protect an analog ch 10 from London, Ontario). While you can get away with a smaller element for ch 10, the weaker signal will make getting that one a challenge. You might have better luck getting your CBS from Youngstown: WKBN is digital on rf ch 41 with a FOX subchannel! It's one of the most powerful digital TV signals in northeast Ohio. It's signal reaches from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! I get it 24/7 with an outdoor antenna aimed to the east. There is also an NBC from Youngstown: WFMJ is digital on rf ch 20 and has a CW subchannel. It's not as powerful as WKBN but you may have a better chance of pulling it in in Akron than I do here in Parma.


I hope this helps. Let us know how it's going.


----------



## paule123

Last night I flipped on the Cavs game in HD on FSNOH D* channel 637-1 and noticed the picture looked really bad with heavy interlacing lines. Then I saw the HR20 was indicating 1080i. I pushed the "res" button to 720p and the picture came back to normal looking 720p. Anybody else notice this?


My HR20 is set to auto-res so something in D*'s system must have flagged it as the wrong format?


----------



## Lighting Guy

FYI, I'm in the old adelphia east cleveland area using QAM. TWC once again changed a digital channel on me. I was getting WKYC-HD on 2 of my channels, and no Fox. A simple delete and rescan found the channels correctly. If someone needs the numbers I can look it up when I get home. No other (good) channels were added. I did see quite a few shopping channels in digital 480i though.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/12414501
> 
> 
> FYI, I'm in the old adelphia east cleveland area using QAM. TWC once again changed a digital channel on me. I was getting WKYC-HD on 2 of my channels, and no Fox. A simple delete and rescan found the channels correctly. If someone needs the numbers I can look it up when I get home. No other (good) channels were added. I did see quite a few shopping channels in digital 480i though.



I setup a new LCD for my mother-in-law the other day. She is on the old Aldelphia system on the west side (Avon). Doing a QAM scan brought in all of the locals as I expected, but interstingly, channels 3,5 and 8 were mapped with the correct PSIP information. They came up on her channel list as 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1 (Channel 19 was off on a funky QAM channel). I didn't realize that TWC was providing or passing along this information so that the channels could be mapped intelligently. A very pleasing discovery for me. Have any of you in other TWC areas seen this or is this new information?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/12416265
> 
> 
> I setup a new LCD for my mother-in-law the other day. She is on the old Aldelphia system on the west side (Avon). Doing a QAM scan brought in all of the locals as I expected, but interstingly, channels 3,5 and 8 were mapped with the correct PSIP information. They came up on her channel list as 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1 (Channel 19 was off on a funky QAM channel). I didn't realize that TWC was providing or passing along this information so that the channels could be mapped intelligently. A very pleasing discovery for me. Have any of you in other TWC areas seen this or is this new information?



Never heard of anyone actully doing it the RIGHT way. Congradulations, you found a blip on the radar.


----------



## kosar

Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.


An I doing something wrong?


Thanks!


P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/12417959
> 
> 
> Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.
> 
> 
> An I doing something wrong?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.




I don't know diddly about qam but I do know that TW's music channels are not encoded. The rest of TW's digital channels are. That's probably why you don't get them.


When I first got my S3 hooked up it basically worked like qam because I didn't have cable cards to see the encoded digital. I did get the music channels and one or two other digital channels. Plus local HD channels and a couple of others.


I couldn't get FOX however. I'm in Bainbridge.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/12417959
> 
> 
> Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.
> 
> 
> An I doing something wrong?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.



If they were broken up, then more than likely you have a weak signal. There are many potential causes for this. I'm no expert in the matter, but it could be caused by the splitter that you used, or too many splits. I myself experienced something similar a ways back and it turned out to be unterminated taps on a splitter. Once I capped off the open ports, the signal cleaned up and all was good.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/12417959
> 
> 
> Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.
> 
> 
> An I doing something wrong?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.



Well assuming they are the same channels as mine, I can check for you when I get home tonight. If they were re-mapped to virtual channels by your TV, then try typing in channel "3.1". That should be WKYC. If they were not remapped and they are on their physical channels, I'll have to look when I get home. If you don't know how to change to a digital channel on your tv, read the manual. You should get all the locals in HD, and maybe even Discovery HD, TNT HD and a Bonus HD channel (local sports sometimes).


Hope this helps. Let us know.


----------



## Reaper0Bot0

I got a Terk HDTVa, and I've added WEWS, WJWDT, WUAB, and WBNX. I get Univision (I think, it's Spanish anyway), but that one is a bit hit or miss.


I'm getting CBS and NBC in analog, but can't get them in HD. Still, quite the improveement. ABC and Fox were two that I really wanted.


----------



## Nourdmrolnmt1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12418090
> 
> 
> I don't know diddly about qam but I do know that TW's music channels are not encoded. The rest of TW's digital channels are. That's probably why you don't get them.
> 
> 
> When I first got my S3 hooked up it basically worked like qam because I didn't have cable cards to see the encoded digital. I did get the music channels and one or two other digital channels. Plus local HD channels and a couple of others.
> 
> 
> I couldn't get FOX however. I'm in Bainbridge.



Im in Auburn, using an indoor antennae. i have DirecTV but dont have HD. am running it through the dtv box, and into the TV... do i have to set up the box to allow the pass through, or what do you have to do exactly?


im very confused. sorry.


i cant get ANY hd channels. and ive moved the antennae every where in my room, including pointing out the window...


this sucks.


(TH42PZ700U)


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12422299
> 
> 
> You're not missing much by not having NBC. About the only good shows are SVU, Earl and 30Rock. The rest of NBC's programming is either SD reality shows or crappy drama series. As for CBS, I would go for the Youngstown CBS WKBN-DT. If you've been in NE Ohio for a while, you can see that the Cleveland CBS station is *GARBAGE*. I've considered getting a stronger antenna many times because of what WOIO does. The signal is hard to get, and once you get it, you're stuck with their crap news and programming. It's not uncommon for WOIO or WUAB to interrupt prime time network programming to air Paid Programs. WKBN is definately a better quality station than WOIO.



NBC's THE OFFICE is one of my favorite shows on television, wether you like it or not














.


----------



## samsung235

Is it normal for the signal to change daily on all stations? Sometimes Fox will come in around 75 then the next day its at 65. Generally all my stations are between 68-71 but sometimes they drop out altogether. I have a Phillips HD antenna mounted on the chimney and I live in parma. I spent countless hours adjusting the thing with my girlfriend by the tv. The thing is I had everything over 70 and they next day it changes..uhhhhhhhhhhgggggg. Damn Dish Network no HD locals







. Signal seems to be worse the colder it gets??


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12422299
> 
> 
> About the only good shows are SVU, Earl and 30Rock.



Geez, you couldn't bribe me to watch any of those shows. The only thing I watch on NBC is Heroes, and I never miss that one! But, to each his own, right?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12422299
> 
> 
> You're not missing much by not having NBC. About the only good shows are SVU, Earl and 30Rock. The rest of NBC's programming is either SD reality shows or crappy drama series.



Uh, did you forget about Sunday Night Football in HD? What about Friday Night Lights, The Office, Saturday Night Live, Chuck, Las Vegas, The Tonight Show, Conan, Holiday Specials and HD Movies they air periodically?


Btw, Friday Night Lights is my favorite show on local programming right now. For those of you who've never seen it, shame!


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nourdmrolnmt1* /forum/post/12421650
> 
> 
> Im in Auburn, using an indoor antennae. i have DirecTV but dont have HD. am running it through the dtv box, and into the TV... do i have to set up the box to allow the pass through, or what do you have to do exactly?
> 
> 
> im very confused. sorry.
> 
> 
> i cant get ANY hd channels. and ive moved the antennae every where in my room, including pointing out the window...
> 
> 
> this sucks.
> 
> 
> (TH42PZ700U)



If your D* stb isn't HD, then I don't think that it will be capable of processing the OTA signals. I'm relatively sure, none of them do a "pass through".


Food for thought: If you have an HD display and standard definition service from D*; have you considered upgrading the D* service to HD. It would cost $100-$200 bucks probably for them to come out, install the new dish, run additional wires, and give you an HR20 (HD PVR). Additional cost per month is something like $10. You can go to their web site and refine the costs; or better yet, call them and discuss the options.


You can frequently get a better price by calling customer retention. Tell them you are going HD and realize it would be cheaper to do it via cable. Ask the customer retention rep for the best deal they can give you.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nourdmrolnmt1* /forum/post/12421650
> 
> 
> Im in Auburn, using an indoor antennae. i have DirecTV but dont have HD. am running it through the dtv box, and into the TV... do i have to set up the box to allow the pass through, or what do you have to do exactly?



If you don't have a D* (that's short for DirecTV) HD box, you won't get HD from it obviously & it won't pass through an HD signal. Presuming you have an HDTV with an OTA tuner built in you'd want to hook the antenna up directly to that coax input and see if you get anything.


In Auburn I wouldn't expect good results with an indoor. I played around briefly with an amplified indoor in Bainbridge & had very spotty HD results, although I did pull something watchable on some channels. With an amplified outdoor I am able to pull in everything although I have D* HD locals and tend to just watch those now rather than the OTA signals.


Anyway - try hooking your antenna directly to your TV and see if that helps. I'd also suggest considering upgrading your D* service to HD. They've rolled out a ton of new HD channels recently, have the big 4 locals available in HD so you don't require an OTA unless you want 43/55 or PBS in HD, and their HR20 DVR has gotten fairly good of late. If you watch a lot of TV, it's worth paying for, but it's not free...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12423627
> 
> 
> Uh, did you forget about Sunday Night Football in HD? What about Friday Night Lights, The Office, Saturday Night Live, Chuck, Las Vegas, The Tonight Show, Conan, Holiday Specials and HD Movies they air periodically?
> 
> 
> Btw, Friday Night Lights is my favorite show on local programming right now. For those of you who've never seen it, shame!



I have to add a couple of others. Chuck, Bionic Woman, Journeyman and Law & Order SVU (it's still got it).


My favorite new show of the season is Bionic Woman. Michelle Ryan is smoking hot and she does a great American accent. I didn't realize she was British until I saw an episode where she was "faking" a British accent. I thought it sounded too good. Turns out she is British. Lot's of action, could improve on the 5.1 sound the episode I watched last night was lacking but then again that happens on a great deal of NBC shows. And did I mention Michelle Ryan?










Hugh Laurey also does a great American accent (House).


Oh Las Vegas. Nice eye candy.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12424210
> 
> 
> Food for thought: If you have an HD display and standard definition service from D*; have you considered upgrading the D* service to HD. It would cost $100-$200 bucks probably for them to come out, install the new dish, run additional wires, and give you an HR20 (HD PVR).



If you're a long time customer in good standing they may very well set you up with the HD equipment for free. I've been getting automated calls from D* the last couple months offering me the new MPEG4 HD equipment for the new HD channels "at no cost to you". Maybe they're offering it to me because I have an elderly HTL-HD MPEG2 only box and subscribed to the HD tier for a few years, I dunno.


----------



## clevemkt

Point of interest. The co-producer of Heroes is Lori Motyer. She is a KSU grad and worked as a director at WAKC (or maybe it WAKR at that time).


----------



## snagy

Hello, fellow Auburn Resident,


I have Direct* but have the HD package. I still am using an outside antenna to pick up my LOcal HD's even though they come in with Direct* but not nearly as well as my antenna. My H20 will not decode the low band VHF for 3-1 or 3-2. My new Toshiba does decode everything perfectly (including 3-1 and 3-2) with my antenna splitter as one feed goes to the H20 and one to the toshiba. I tried an indoor antenna to no avail. For my money, i am very happy with the outdoor antenna with the rotor so that I can get Youngstown without any problems.


Steve


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12422904
> 
> 
> Used to like it. Until Steve Carell refused to make new episodes even though they had scripts already written.



Yeah, I hate it when people stand up for their rights and the rights of others...


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsung235* /forum/post/12423221
> 
> 
> Is it normal for the signal to change daily on all stations? Sometimes Fox will come in around 75 then the next day its at 65. Generally all my stations are between 68-71 but sometimes they drop out altogether. I have a Phillips HD antenna mounted on the chimney and I live in parma. I spent countless hours adjusting the thing with my girlfriend by the tv. The thing is I had everything over 70 and they next day it changes..uhhhhhhhhhhgggggg. Damn Dish Network no HD locals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Signal seems to be worse the colder it gets??



same problem here, well sorta







the only station that does this is ABC, as I get it at 80-82 one day, then low 70s (which had dropouts on the reciever)..NBC comes in at 80, Fox at 100, and CBS at 73-77 all those with VERY little dropouts, I Have Dish network as well and I live in Green ohio.


----------



## samsung235

What is a good antenna for are area? I have a feeling it may be my antenna. Will it help if I get one of those boosters or amplifiers?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsung235* /forum/post/12428917
> 
> 
> What is a good antenna for are area? I have a feeling it may be my antenna. Will it help if I get one of those boosters or amplifiers?



I use a radio shack outdoor/attic antenna that is I think 60 bucks, it has worked great ,and I dont have a preamp. just a amp as I have a split (2 tv's) it works great, I just think its a hiccup in the dishnetwork software as my tv recieves these channels without a hitch.


http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12425875
> 
> 
> Yeah, I hate it when people stand up for their rights and the rights of others...



You're right! How could I forget that those poor







writers who live in Hollywood and make between $70K and $100K+ have a right to even more money! Of course all at the expense of non-writing people like makeup, wardrobe, audio/video and stage crews. Plus, the alienation of the audience.


----------



## hookbill

I love sarcasam!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12429887
> 
> 
> I love sarcasam!



There's only room for one Smarty-pants around here...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12430020
> 
> 
> There's only room for one Smarty-pants around here...



Hmm... I wonder if that is true. Don't we usually refer to the garment worn suspended by the waist as "a pair of pants"? Does that not imply that there is indeed room here for a pair of Smarty-pants?


Now that I think about it, have you ever seen someone wearing a pant? I wonder how that would work. Could be attractive, but in most cases would probably be scary...


----------



## JJkizak

I use a DC-9000 (91 elements VHS/UHF, $90.00 from MCM, no rotor) and it works great on everything except for PBS 49.1 and 67.1 which most of the time they are fading and dropping out. About 20% of the time they are steady showing about 60-80 signal strength. Occasionally the signal strength will be a steady 10-20 and there will be no fades. The sound will drop out first, then the picture when there is a fade. The fades are quicker than the "damped" meter reading on the LCD HDTV. The strength on all the other channels is from 80-98. I have zero problems with 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 55.1, 61.1 The antenna is in a fixed position aiming at the Seven Hills area.

I have two splitters between the tv's (no pre-amps) with about 30 ft of Shack RG-6. I am assuming that PBS is transmitting low power. I don't watch 67.1 unless they have the ad for the Dean Martin roasts.

JJK


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12429822
> 
> 
> You're right! How could I forget that those poor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> writers who live in Hollywood and make between $70K and $100K+ have a right to even more money! Of course all at the expense of non-writing people like makeup, wardrobe, audio/video and stage crews. Plus, the alienation of the audience.



See, they're actually losing money right now. One of the writers for Letterman made a really good argument on Bob and Tom, writers live off of the residuals between jobs. They make these residuals from re-runs. How often do you see reruns lately? The networks have pushed these "reruns" to the internet and DVD where the writers either don't receive residuals or receive a much smaller cut. So while writers likely make large amounts of money (I've never heard a firm figure) they do spend quite a bit of time between jobs where they are forced to live off of residuals.


For more information see: Wikipedia


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12433568
> 
> 
> See, they're actually losing money right now. One of the writers for Letterman made a really good argument on Bob and Tom, writers live off of the residuals between jobs. They make these residuals from re-runs. How often do you see reruns lately? The networks have pushed these "reruns" to the internet where the writers don't receive residuals. So while writers likely make large amounts of money (I've never heard a firm figure) they do spend quite a bit of time between jobs where they are forced to live off of residuals.
> 
> 
> For more information see: Wikipedia




There are always two perspectives. There is the company view (Network) and then there are the employees (writers).


First nobody has ever gained anything from an extended strike. So no matter how it comes out the writers are going to lose anyway. So will the networks but their losses won't be as bad as the writers.


But this isn't an ordinary strike. This is already rich people who are still making extraordinary amounts of money who have had the company, which is even richer cutting them out of some profits.


It's real hard for me to feel sorry for these guys (writers). First since financially I'm not involved all I can see is me missing out some great shows in the second part of this season, like 24. Second, how many of us working people haven't had the company screw us over in one way or another over the past 15 years. When I worked for Citi I had health insurance through my wife's work. Citi actually compensated me for not costing them money by not getting health insurance. Then one year they decided not only to increase the cost of health care, which I know is out of their hands. and just plain stop paying me for not getting insurance. I don't care how you look at it, that's double dipping.


They also got rid of their "pension plan" in favor of giving stock to their employees. When I left 5 years later I didn't get one penny from those stocks. Nothing. I still don't know why.


So excuse me if I have no sympathy for these writers. It seems they are compensated just fine and if they had to take a bite out of their checks they are just getting screwed just like the rest of us. Only they are still rich.


----------



## Smarty-pants

*So excuse me if I have no sympathy for these writers. It seems they are compensated just fine and if they had to take a bite out of their checks they are just getting screwed just like the rest of us. Only they are still rich.*


Ditto.


----------



## samsung235

Thanks for the antenna suggestions. I think I am going to pick up the radioshack one.


----------



## samsung235

WOW THANKS! I got that radio shack antenna and all of my channels are in the 90s with the exception of WUAB (43) which is at 70-71. Thanks for the info on the antenna. Don't know what the problem with 43 is but the signal hasn't dropped on it yet so I could care less.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsung235* /forum/post/12439615
> 
> 
> WOW THANKS! I got that radio shack antenna and all of my channels are in the 90s with the exception of WUAB (43) which is at 70-71. Thanks for the info on the antenna. Don't know what the problem with 43 is but the signal hasn't dropped on it yet so I could care less.



No Problem glad I could help! I am happy it has worked out for you...to be honest I once said I wasnt going to put a antenna on the roof as that is just silly, but now I am trying to get two antennas one for cleveland and one for youngstown! I love OTA...also when dish network turns on Cleveland HD locals next year, I will be able to record 3 HD shows at once, 2 off of satellite and one off of OTA antenna.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12440312
> 
> 
> I love OTA...also when dish network turns on Cleveland HD locals next year, I will be able to record 3 HD shows at once, 2 off of satellite and one off of OTA antenna.




While I admit I'm a bit ignorant about Dish's DVR (other then the fact that they stole TiVo technology) I have to say this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone able to record 3 shows at once. I don't believe any DVR is capable of that so are you talking about two DVR's? And if that's the case wouldn't you be able to record 4 shows at once?


If it is a single DVR please give me the link, I gotta see that to believe it.


----------



## stuart628

yep, here is just something to glance at.... http://www.consumersearch.com/www/el....html...scroll down to dvrs for satellite...also please feel free to come to satelliteguys.us it truly is one of the best sites.....also its not just Dish Dvrs that have "Tivo" technology (the ones that patented it, as Dish had a dvr that did this before tivo) but Alot of dvr's have it, but Directv has a contract (a non sue contract) and Comcast uses tivo, not sure about time warner. But Dish Dvr's truly are rated very high, thats why I went with them, they are quality


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12436372
> 
> 
> As I see it there are two types of current writers: The writers on _CSI_ or _24_ and the other top rated shows that make tons of money in making new shows and syndication. Just try to NOT find a _CSI_ or _Law & Order_ on cable! I can see those shows being on the networks and in syndication for years.




When an hourlong show like CSI gets rerun on network TV, the writer gets about $20,000. What the networks want to do is have the right to rerun these shows over the Internet while paying the writers almost nothing for their work.


So let's talk about the "rich" writers. Yes, there are some people who belong to the Writers Guild who are cleaning it up, because they have talent **and** a good agent **and** they write what the networks are buying. There are also lots of other people who belong to the Writers Guild who have talent and make very little money. They have to make at least $30K per year to qualify for membership in the Writers Guild health plan, yet in any given year a substantial portion of the membership does not qualify. The contract proposed by the networks will deprive these people of the payment they deserve for their work.


Before people take sides against the Writers Guild, they should consider that the mainstream media coverage of the strike is controlled by the people against whom the writers are striking and likely contains significant bias.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12443968
> 
> 
> yep, here is just something to glance at.... http://www.consumersearch.com/www/el....html...scroll down to dvrs for satellite...also please feel free to come to satelliteguys.us it truly is one of the best sites.....also its not just Dish Dvrs that have "Tivo" technology (the ones that patented it, as Dish had a dvr that did this before tivo) but Alot of dvr's have it, but Directv has a contract (a non sue contract) and Comcast uses tivo, not sure about time warner. But Dish Dvr's truly are rated very high, thats why I went with them, they are quality



Well, you made me work a bit to find it but I did see that it does indeed record 3 shows at one time. That is a nice feature!


Comcast has a deal with TiVo to use their software, just as D* does (and in some cases still does). There is another cable company who also has a deal with TiVo but I don't remember who it is it just isn't TW.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/12444218
> 
> 
> Before people take sides against the Writers Guild, they should consider that the mainstream media coverage of the strike is controlled by the people against whom the writers are striking and likely contains significant bias.



People in the writers guild that can pay 30g a year arn't hurting for money. If they are and they are just breaking even, then probably none of this stuff the writers guild is fighting for is ever going to affect them unless they do make it big.


But what really bothers me about your post is the comment you made that I quoted. The media has absolutely no affect on my opinion of this strike. I haven't taken anything they have said about it into consideration. Further I don't recall any stories that would lead me to believe the media has been unfair in their coverage.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12445055
> 
> 
> Well, you made me work a bit to find it but I did see that it does indeed record 3 shows at one time. That is a nice feature!
> 
> 
> Comcast has a deal with TiVo to use their software, just as D* does (and in some cases still does). There is another cable company who also has a deal with TiVo but I don't remember who it is it just isn't TW.



Really great option...Like I said if all goes well next year I will be able to record 2 HD shows off of satellite, and one off of OTA if I need to....i was really looking forward to today trying this as I thought for sure they would have sci fi HD turned on, but instead they had last minute techinical difficulties and the channel wasnt turned on, I wanted to see as my wife had a HD show recording, I was going to record Tin Man on Sci Fi in HD and then watch football, but oh well Dish Network is alot nicer then people think, I Know ALOT of die hard dish fans, and with the two new satellites being lauched and capacity for 200 HD channels, plus 1500-2000 locals it will be neat to see the competition! and the other cable company is a local small time guy I believe, not really much on the national radar (if I remember correctly in my readings of tivo)


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12445091
> 
> 
> People in the writers guild that can pay 30g a year arn't hurting for money.



I didn't say that writers were _paying_ $30K per year. I said that they have to earn $30K per year as a writer in order to qualify for Writers Guild's group health plan--which they also have to pay for. Although $30K a year is above the poverty level, it's hardly "rich." Have any idea how much family health insurance costs?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12445091
> 
> 
> But what really bothers me about your post is the comment you made that I quoted. The media has absolutely no affect on my opinion of this strike. I haven't taken anything they have said about it into consideration. Further I don't recall any stories that would lead me to believe the media has been unfair in their coverage.



You wouldn't be seeing stories in the mainstream media telling you that the mainstream media are unfair in their coverage, of course. Here's a sampling of what the mainstream media are not covering, including the fact that a writer would get paid $253 for a one-hour TV show to be shown on the internet, under the terms being offered by the networks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...y_b_75928.html 


This is a link to the Writer's Guild FAQ page about the strike (BTW, I am not a TV writer and I have no connection with TV writers or the media):
http://www.unitedhollywood.com/crumb.html


----------



## samsung235

Another quick question is it true that an OTA signal is actually a better HD feed because it is uncompressed? If this so can u guys actually tell the difference?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsung235* /forum/post/12445665
> 
> 
> Another quick question is it true that an OTA signal is actually a better HD feed because it is uncompressed? If this so can u guys actually tell the difference?



Sometimes you can and sometimes not. Depends on your cable or satellite company, depends on your equipment, how new or properly hooked up the lines coming into your house are, etc... etc... etc...


----------



## Smarty-pants

Isn't that the American way














? Exploiting those wthout, so that those at the top can keep on livin' the good life.

BTW, just in case of misintepratation, I am NOT for the writers strike







.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12445774
> 
> 
> Plus, then the health insurance; if everyone is paid more, the membership and health insurance will cost more.




I don't understand how you reach this conclusion. The insurance benefits are not free to members. They have to pay for them once they are in the union and eligible by making over $30K. The larger the number of members in an insurance group, the more power they have to negotiate lower premiums with insurers. Try and negotiate with them, and then see what kind of rate you get versus what rate the Teamsters get.


Additionally, the cost of membership to a union doesn't have to increase when membership goes up, since economies of scale are possible when it comes to management and expenses.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsung235* /forum/post/12445665
> 
> 
> Another quick question is it true that an OTA signal is actually a better HD feed because it is uncompressed? If this so can u guys actually tell the difference?



TW does not compress the HD signal. I know this because of my contact with headend.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/12445592
> 
> 
> You wouldn't be seeing stories in the mainstream media telling you that the mainstream media are unfair in their coverage, of course. Here's a sampling of what the mainstream media are not covering, including the fact that a writer would get paid $253 for a one-hour TV show to be shown on the internet, under the terms being offered by the networks:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...y_b_75928.html
> 
> 
> This is a link to the Writer's Guild FAQ page about the strike (BTW, I am not a TV writer and I have no connection with TV writers or the media):
> http://www.unitedhollywood.com/crumb.html



Sorry, that had really nothing to do with my post. I said I made up my mind against the writers strike based on, and I'm being quite honest here A. the loss of my own personal viewing pleasure, and B. The media had not helped me form an opinion.


I probably formed an opinion more about the writers strike from this forum then anywhere else.


----------



## kosar

Thanks to all who replied about my QAM questions. I appreciate the info!


----------



## kosar

I've been trolling this thread for a few weeks now, but I wanted to add my experience here in case it helps others. Sort of my way of "giving back".










I'm in S. Euclid. I just got Dish Network, so I obviously needed an antenna solution for local HD. I started out with a Radio Shack DA-5200. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family I tested it inside, and on my roof. For my exact location, this didn't work well enough for me. My main goal was for the 4 main networks (3, 5, 8, 19). It was OK when directly connected to my TV, however, there would be a blip here and there. When connected to the Dish receiver, the receiver who splash that yellow banner, saying it lost signal and is reacquiring, basically making it unwatchable. This happened over and over, every 15-30 seconds.


So, I called Solid Signal (.com), and they pointed me to the Channel Master 3010 ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_disp...p?prod=ANC3010 ). Once this was installed on my roof, I have signal strength of full 100 for Fox, high 90s for ABC and CBS, and 75-80 for NBC, and a very consistent signal. Interestingly enough, I still can't get WVIZ 25 PBS, even though I thought their transmitter was technically closer than one of the networks I'm getting strong signals from, but no complaints.


All is happy for me now in local HD land.


----------



## jtscherne

WVIZ is basically impossible to receive because they don't have an antenna up for their digital signal.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12450022
> 
> 
> WVIZ is basically impossible to receive because they don't have an antenna up for their digital signal.



Yeah, WVIZ is pretty much known to have an awful (or even non-existant) digital signal. I'm in Strongsville and I get every digital Cleveland station except WVIZ with a rather basic outdoor antenna. Analog WVIZ comes in fine OTA.


I've heard conflicting stories about WVIZ's digital troubles, maybe someone in here may know what is really going on. Different stories I've heard:


1. The digital transmission "tower" is a temporary tower (or basic transmitter) located at their broadcast facility.

2. The digital transmission is temporarily on their analog tower, but not high up. They will move it up higher when they turn off analog.

3. They are temporarily broadcasting a digital signal (read 1 or 2) until their new tower is built somewhere in Parma area.

4. They are waiting for myself and hookbill to send in our PBS donations.


----------



## kosar

OK, that makes me feel better about WVIZ, at least, why I can't get it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12450374
> 
> 
> Yeah, WVIZ is pretty much known to have an awful (or even non-existant) digital signal. I'm in Strongsville and I get every digital Cleveland station except WVIZ with a rather basic outdoor antenna. Analog WVIZ comes in fine OTA.
> 
> 
> I've heard conflicting stories about WVIZ's digital troubles, maybe someone in here may know what is really going on. Different stories I've heard:
> 
> 
> 1. The digital transmission "tower" is a temporary tower (or basic transmitter) located at their broadcast facility.
> 
> 2. The digital transmission is temporarily on their analog tower, but not high up. They will move it up higher when they turn off analog.
> 
> 3. They are temporarily broadcasting a digital signal (read 1 or 2) until their new tower is built somewhere in Parma area.
> 
> 4. They are waiting for myself and hookbill to send in our PBS donations.



1. is the closest to the truth.


Here is the sad story. WVIZ does not own their analog tower, the antenna sits atop WNCX-FM's tower in North Royalton (which is owned by CBS, INC). CBS Inc. will not allow another antenna on the structure. As a short-term "fix" WVIZ set-up a 1 kw transmitter on a 99' tower at their old studio location on Brookpark Rd. (across the street from but technically not in Parma). At 1,000 watts/99' the signal barley gets out the 3 miles to my location. They have been operating this "temporary" transmitter for over 3 years now.


BTW: WVIZ's analog tower is slightly outside "the pack" in Parma. Unless you live far enough away (and in the right direction) a single antenna might need a rotor to re-aim at WVIZ. Also the comment about WVIZ being "closer" would only be true is you lived west to southwest of the antenna farm (Stronsgville would be an example). For all the east siders, WVIZ is actually farther away and there may be some terrain obstructions to add to the mess.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12450374
> 
> 
> 4. They are waiting for myself and hookbill to send in our PBS donations.



If that's the case then they will never increase their transmitter.








Besides, being a cable subscriber I ge WVIZ just fine thank you. Now that's not putting a knock on any of you OTA guys, even if I wanted OTA because of my location I don't think I would get good signals without a real expensive antenna.


I tried rabbit ears on my S3 and I didn't get zip.


----------



## nickdawg

WNEO is better. WVIZ won't get any from me! WNEO-HD broadcasts 5.1 shows in 5.1. WVIZ is only 2.0. Plus, with WNEO you also get a digital verison of the analog broadcast. The compression on "digital" SD local channels is HORRIBLE, so it's nice to have a less-compressed version. WKYC used to do this also. It was nice to have a digital SD channel back in the day of analog only on channels under 100.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12452425
> 
> 
> If that's the case then they will never increase their transmitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, being a cable subscriber I ge WVIZ just fine thank you. Now that's not putting a knock on any of you OTA guys, even if I wanted OTA because of my location I don't think I would get good signals without a real expensive antenna.
> 
> 
> I tried rabbit ears on my S3 and I didn't get zip.



Yeah, I grew up waaaaay out east in Russell Twp.. Getting WVIZ out there was a pipe dream! We were lucky when we got 3,5 & 8. But here in Strongsville the WVIZ analog signal is solid.


When I did have an HD package with my cable provider, digital WVIZ wasn't even offered. So no HD PBS no matter how I slice it. *sigh*


----------



## JJkizak

1KW? Wow! Like Cole Younger say's, "It's a wonderment"

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12452370
> 
> 
> 1. is the closest to the truth.
> 
> 
> Here is the sad story. WVIZ does not own their analog tower, the antenna sits atop WNCX-FM's tower in North Royalton (which is owned by CBS, INC). CBS Inc. will not allow another antenna on the structure. As a short-term "fix" WVIZ set-up a 1 kw transmitter on a 99' tower at their old studio location on Brookpark Rd. (across the street from but technically not in Parma). At 1,000 watts/99' the signal barley gets out the 3 miles to my location. They have been operating this "temporary" transmitter for over 3 years now.
> 
> 
> BTW: WVIZ's analog tower is slightly outside "the pack" in Parma. Unless you live far enough away (and in the right direction) a single antenna might need a rotor to re-aim at WVIZ. Also the comment about WVIZ being "closer" would only be true is you lived west to southwest of the antenna farm (Stronsgville would be an example). For all the east siders, WVIZ is actually farther away and there may be some terrain obstructions to add to the mess.




Michael, you've got it right. I feel badly for those guys; they'd like nothing better than to be able to go full power on their DTV channel from an antenna mounted at a decent height. Unfortunately they've been at the mercy of the owner of the tower.


BTW I think they're running with an antenna gain of 10, so their transmitter is running at 1/10th of their ERP.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12454148
> 
> 
> Michael, you've got it right. I feel badly for those guys; they'd like nothing better than to be able to go full power on their DTV channel from an antenna mounted at a decent height. Unfortunately they've been at the mercy of the owner of the tower.



From what I read on their web site, they are hoping/planning to build their own tower in the (near?) future. Best of luck to them... If and when this goes forward, I'd love to take a few vacation days to watch the tower go up. I have this weird fasciniation with the raw physics of transmission towers - tall, thin, very heavy, and supported by only a few square inches at the base...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12456471
> 
> 
> I have this weird fasciniation with the raw physics of transmission towers - tall, thin, very heavy, and supported by only a few square inches at the base...



I have two replys for this. Since I don't know which one is best I'll use both.


Reply one (suppose to be funny): Kind of sounds like this woman I woke up next to in 1978 after hitting the bars all night.


Reply two (truthfull): Dude, you are such a geek!


----------



## Speedskater

Back in 1969 the WDOK/WIXY tower came down twice. First was the 4th of July storm, then when constructing the replacement, the crew went too high without temporary guys and it came down again killing some of the workers.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12447007
> 
> 
> TW does not compress the HD signal. I know this because of my contact with headend.



Tell me if I'm incorrect, but isn't that what QAM is, compressed. So that it can be trasmitted down coax, and then uncompressed at the QAM tuner?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/12461553
> 
> 
> Tell me if I'm incorrect, but isn't that what QAM is, compressed. So that it can be trasmitted down coax, and then uncompressed at the QAM tuner?



You must have missed the post where I said "I don't know diddly about QAM." However I'm quite certain that TW doesn't compress the HD signal. D* does on the locals anyway.


----------



## stuart628

Yes their is compression on the QAM (turning the signal to QAM) BUT there is no reshaping that I am aware of, or bit rate lowering that Time warner does. The last check I heard was that its as close to OTA as you will get.


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12461634
> 
> 
> However I'm quite certain that TW doesn't compress the HD signal.



This appears to be true for local stations, but may or may not be true for other content. I don't know what bitrate the other HD channels are transmitted in to the headend, but channel 113 here is carrying 3 high-bitrate (probably HD) program streams. If those channels use less than 38mbit total from the source, they're fine. But if they are all using up to the 19mbit of a standard ATSC stream, then Time Warner is doing some sort of statistical multiplexing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12461634
> 
> 
> D* does on the locals anyway.



This is misleading.

In some markets, DirecTV might be encoding the local channels using MPEG4 from the ATSC-bitrate MPEG2 signal (bad). However, in other markets DirecTV installs MPEG4 encoders at the stations themselves, bypassing this process (good).


I don't know which applies to Cleveland.


----------



## terryfoster

Whoa, QAM = Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. This (as the acronym would suggest) is a signal modulation method instead of a compression method. Same with 8VSB, 8-level vestigial sideband modulation. Typically ATSC signals are transmitted using these modulation types. Typically MPEG2 compression is used for ATSC signals.


Now we do know local channels are provided to cable/satellite already compressed. It's unlikely that cable adds any additional compression to that signal, but nothing (besides a retransmission agreement) would stop them from doing so. Satellite OTOH does compress the provided signal using MPEG4.


It's unclear if channels provided by TBS, Universal, etc are already compressed when they are provided to cable/satellite. It would seem likely to me that they would already be compressed. We know that regardless of how they are provided that satellite does use (or is moving to) MPEG4 to compress the signal. It is also unclear if cable is either responsible for compressing the signal provided, if they compress the signal provided, or if they leave the signal alone.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12461634
> 
> 
> You must have missed the post where I said "I don't know diddly about QAM." However I'm quite certain that TW doesn't compress the HD signal. D* does on the locals anyway.



I normally use OTA locals because I don't have to worry about problems during storms. However, my D* MPEG4 locals are basically indistinguishable from OTA on my 60" SXRD.


I'm not saying this as the new guy on the block. I've had HD for 5 years and calibrate my TV's (using my own colorometer for grayscale) a couple times each year (i.e., I'm pretty particular about the video quality).


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12462071
> 
> 
> Satellite OTOH does compress the provided signal using MPEG4.



"Satellite"? You mean DirecTV and Dish Network?


DirecTV may, in some markets, recompress local channels using MPEG4 AVC from the ATSC MPEG2 source; it's also possible that they install an MPEG4 AVC encoder at the station to bypass going from MPEG2->MPEG4.


This means that it is possible for DirecTV to have a better picture in those markets where they install MPEG4 hardware at the stations.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12462071
> 
> 
> It's unclear if channels provided by TBS, Universal, etc are already compressed when they are provided to cable/satellite.



Of course they're compressed.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12462071
> 
> 
> It is also unclear if cable is either responsible for compressing the signal provided, if they compress the signal provided, or if they leave the signal alone.



Cable and satellite networks get either a MPEG2 or MPEG4 AVC stream. Since most current cable TV receiving hardware only supports decoding MPEG2, any MPEG4 channels received at the head end must be recompressed.


HBO, for example, has already announced that it will use 8mbit/sec MPEG4 for its upcoming HD channels:
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10163.cfm


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12462183
> 
> 
> I normally use OTA locals because I don't have to worry about problems during storms. However, my D* MPEG4 locals are basically indistinguishable from OTA on my 60" SXRD.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying this as the new guy on the block. I've had HD for 5 years and calibrate my TV's (using my own colorometer for grayscale) a couple times each year (i.e., I'm pretty particular about the video quality).



Every report I have seen indicates that D*'s compressed signal is excellent quality. My statement that D* compresses it's signal was not meant to say that the quality was any less then TW or even OTA. It was simply a statement of fact.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12462324
> 
> 
> Every report I have seen indicates that D*'s compressed signal is excellent quality. My statement that D* compresses it's signal was not meant to say that the quality was any less then TW or even OTA. It was simply a statement of fact.



Bottom line: If it's HD and is broadcast at any point, it was compressed. Otherwise it won't even come close to fitting within the allocated spectrum bandwidth.


----------



## HD MM

For any PBS fans out there or anyone in search of a rare respectable news program, PBS' The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be going HD on Monday December 17th......

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/11...hrer-going-hd/


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12462901
> 
> 
> For any PBS fans out there or anyone in search of a rare respectable news program, PBS' The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be going HD on Monday December 17th......
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/11...hrer-going-hd/



That is great news. PBS constitutes about 90% of my TV viewing.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12463272
> 
> 
> PBS constitutes about 90% of my TV viewing.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12389924
> 
> 
> Does anyone notice on TW (Amherst area - old Comcast network), the poor HD signal on TNTHD lately? Watching some basketball games the other night was terrible and watching the Closer tonight is not great either. Seems like macroblocking/pixelation.
> 
> 
> Also, where are our new HD channels, sure wish some more would come soon.



Sorry I took so long to answer. Yes I agree with your valuation, also TBS HD also leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12463293



Other than sports I find little to watch on the major networks. I am 60 years old and find all the programing is for 30 and younger crowd.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12463367
> 
> 
> Other than sports I find little to watch on the major networks. I am 60 years old and find all the programing is for 30 and younger crowd.



Well, I'm 55 years old and 95% of what I watch is from the major networks. And I still listen to rock and I like it loud. You know what they say, if it's too loud your too old.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12463568
> 
> 
> Well, I'm 55 years old and 95% of what I watch is from the major networks. And I still listen to rock and I like it loud. You know what they say, if it's too loud your too old.



Of course now you need to go out and buy that fancy sport's car. You know, to keep you young







.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12463568
> 
> 
> Well, I'm 55 years old and 95% of what I watch is from the major networks. And I still listen to rock and I like it loud. You know what they say, if it's too loud your too old.



Haha, you guys are funny!! Well, I'm 24 years old, and most of the programming I watch is on PBS, although I wouldn't say 90%, but still a large chunk. I just think that the all the other networks are too commercialized. Besides, PBS has some very interesting nature programs in HD, and I also like watching NOVA. Hopefully WVIZ will have their issues resolved soon.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/12461553
> 
> 
> Tell me if I'm incorrect, but isn't that what QAM is, compressed. So that it can be trasmitted down coax, and then uncompressed at the QAM tuner?



QAM is just the modulation format and has no direct bearing on compression. Any of the modulation formats (AM, FM, 8-VSB, QAM, FSK, COFDM) can carry either compressed or uncompressed signals (or a mixture of both simultaneously). Furthermore, an MPTS (multiprogram transport stream) can carry different programs at different compression levels depending on the content and the needs of the broadcaster.


It's all alphabet soup!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12456471
> 
> 
> If and when this goes forward, I'd love to take a few vacation days to watch the tower go up. I have this weird fasciniation with the raw physics of transmission towers - tall, thin, very heavy, and supported by only a few square inches at the base...



It's amazing to watch those guys in action. I watched a tower going up and they were strapped off to tower parts, dangling from their belts and tossing hammers to each other 80' in the air!










It was also interesting to watch them drill the holes for the footers. I saw big chunks of shale flying out of the ground when they were digging with a huge auger.


----------



## paule123

I was horrified to read in another thread here on AVS that some of the HD channel providers are intentionally providing a lower-bandwidth signal to the cable companies, at the cable companies request, since they don't have the bandwidth capacity. So thanks to the idiot cable companies, we all (regardless of provider) may be very well suffering poor HD PQ.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12464774
> 
> 
> I was horrified to read in another thread here on AVS that some of the HD channel providers are intentionally providing a lower-bandwidth signal to the cable companies, at the cable companies request, since they don't have the bandwidth capacity. So thanks to the idiot cable companies, we all (regardless of provider) may be very well suffering poor HD PQ.



This doesn't sound right. Cable operators have the means to rate-shape and throttle the downlinked signal to fit their requirements. I'd want to see the source material for that claim.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12456929
> 
> 
> I have two replys for this. Since I don't know which one is best I'll use both.
> 
> 
> Reply one (suppose to be funny): Kind of sounds like this woman I woke up next to in 1978 after hitting the bars all night.
> 
> 
> Reply two (truthfull): Dude, you are such a geek!



Hehe.... Reply one - funny. Reply two - well.....true.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12465162
> 
> 
> This doesn't sound right. Cable operators have the means to rate-shape and throttle the downlinked signal to fit their requirements. I'd want to see the source material for that claim.



Agreed. A simple proof of this is that most, if not all, of the not-tiny cable operators spend major cash to build OTA HD reception capability for their headends. (I know of at least three owned by TWC within 30 miles of me.) Although they usually prefer to get their feeds via fiber when possible, they can always switch to the OTA feed in case of a fiber cut or other problem. If they didn't have the ability to handle the full OTA HD feed internally, there wouldn't be much reason to build these facilities.


(If you're bored some day, go visit the TWC reception tower near the intersection of I-80 and SR 46. You can get fairly close before running into the first "Keep Out" sign. Several dishes, a bunch of antennas aimed at Cleveland and Youngstown, and an old lawn tractor flipped upside-down. I'm guessing the tractor is acting as a single-element reflector...







)


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/12462202
> 
> 
> DirecTV may, in some markets, recompress local channels using MPEG4 AVC from the ATSC MPEG2 source; it's also possible that they install an MPEG4 AVC encoder at the station to bypass going from MPEG2->MPEG4.



It's possible that they could do that, but I've never heard that they have. The best situation I have heard is a fiber feed from the broadcast side of the affiliate's encoder (otherwise DirecTV receives the signal OTA). Where have you heard of an encoder being installed at the affiliate before the affiliate's encoder?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/12462202
> 
> 
> Cable and satellite networks get either a MPEG2 or MPEG4 AVC stream. Since most current cable TV receiving hardware only supports decoding MPEG2, any MPEG4 channels received at the head end must be recompressed.



Sorry, I oversimplified my previous statement. Sure it's likely a compressed video stream, but is it at a rate that anyone would retransmit? It's my understanding that local affiliates (excluding Fox affiliates) receive a feed from the networks that is at a much higher rate than what they broadcast which they then take and compress down to fit their available bandwidth (this also allows for key inserts, etc). I would assume the same might be done for non-broadcast networks (TBS, Universal, etc). So do we know for sure if cable is supplied a signal that they MUST compress to make it usable or just a signal that they could compress further? Maybe it's just different from network to network.


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12467488
> 
> 
> It's possible that they could do that, but I've never heard that they have. The best situation I have heard is a fiber feed from the broadcast side of the affiliate's encoder (otherwise DirecTV receives the signal OTA). Where have you heard of an encoder being installed at the affiliate before the affiliate's encoder?


 http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/11...to-re-hd-lite/ 

as well as other comments read on forums.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/12467488
> 
> 
> Sorry, I oversimplified my previous statement. Sure it's likely a compressed video stream, but is it at a rate that anyone would retransmit? It's my understanding that local affiliates (excluding Fox affiliates) receive a feed from the networks that is at a much higher rate than what they broadcast which they then take and compress down to fit their available bandwidth (this also allows for key inserts, etc).



I'd guess


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12463367
> 
> 
> Other than sports I find little to watch on the major networks. I am 60 years old and find all the programing is for 30 and younger crowd.



I'm older than you (retired for over 8 years) and mostly watch the major networks during prime time. Of course, I'm shallow, mentally retarded, and went to graduate school at U of Michigan.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12471677
> 
> 
> I'm older than you (retired for over 8 years) and mostly watch the major networks during prime time. Of course, I'm shallow, mentally retarded, and went to graduate school at U of Michigan.



Forum rules forbid the use of UofM within this forum.


ONE DEMERIT!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12466531
> 
> 
> ...Several dishes, a bunch of antennas aimed at Cleveland and Youngstown, and an old lawn tractor flipped upside-down.



Ok, so the REAL question is... why are you so interested in their tractor?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12473979
> 
> 
> Ok, so the REAL question is... why are you so interested in their tractor?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12456929
> 
> 
> Reply two (truthfull): Dude, you are such a geek!



'Nuff said!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12471801
> 
> 
> Forum rules forbid the use of UofM within this forum.
> 
> 
> ONE DEMERIT!



Hold up - the UofM filter added a demerit to you for quoting a reference to UofM. Uh-oh - it just added two, no, three, demerits to me...


Arrgh!


----------



## HD MM

Ok, so from here on out, we need to make a pack to never make any more references to "that state up north." Agreed?


Reminds me of a funny story about late OSU coach Woody Hayes.....


Woody was famous for his hatred for Michigan and anything that had to do with the state (he referred to it, of course, as "that state up north" or "that team up north") . One night on a recruiting trip in the state of Michigan, an assistant noticed that the car he was driving was going to run out of gas. He let Woody, who was dozing in the passenger seat, that he had to pull over for gas. Woody refused, and the assistant drove on. The assistant, who saw the weather was starting to get bad, began to become worried about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, and once again stressed his desire to pull over and get gas. Woody erupted: "No, goddammit! We do NOT pull in and fill up. And I'll tell you exactly why we don't. It's because I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan! We'll coast and PUSH this goddam car to the Ohio line before I give this state a nickel of my money!" The assistant knew he wasn't kidding, and they barely made it across the border and sputtered into the first gas station they found in Ohio.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12471677
> 
> 
> I'm older than you (retired for over 8 years) and mostly watch the major networks during prime time. Of course, I'm shallow, mentally retarded, and went to graduate school at U of Michigan.



I was stating my preferences for TV viewing. Each to their own. Go Buckeyes.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12477792
> 
> 
> I was stating my preferences for TV viewing. Each to their own. Go Buckeyes.



You indicated your preferences were a function of your advanced age. I said I was even older but that was offset by other traits. I made a poor attempt at humor. You obviously missed the point. But I do agree, Go Buckeyes!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12478002
> 
> 
> You indicated your preferences were a function of your advanced age. I said I was even older but that was offset by other traits. I made a poor attempt at humor. You obviously missed the point. But I do agree, Go Buckeyes!



No, I got your point and it wasn't a poor attempt at humor. And as Andrew K pointed out he's just a kid and he watches PBS.


And he really made the point: Age is not a factor on what we like on television, it's personal taste. Maybe you and I have bad taste. If anyone thinks so they can Kiss my.....whoops, got carried away.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12477470
> 
> 
> Reminds me of a funny story about late OSU coach Woody Hayes.....
> 
> 
> Woody was famous for his hatred for Michigan and anything that had to do with the state (he referred to it, of course, as "that state up north" or "that team up north") . One night on a recruiting trip in the state of Michigan, an assistant noticed that the car he was driving was going to run out of gas. He let Woody, who was dozing in the passenger seat, that he had to pull over for gas. Woody refused, and the assistant drove on. The assistant, who saw the weather was starting to get bad, began to become worried about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, and once again stressed his desire to pull over and get gas. Woody erupted: "No, goddammit! We do NOT pull in and fill up. And I'll tell you exactly why we don't. It's because I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan! We'll coast and PUSH this goddam car to the Ohio line before I give this state a nickel of my money!" The assistant knew he wasn't kidding, and they barely made it across the border and sputtered into the first gas station they found in Ohio.



Yeah, even I've heard that story. And I'm not a big college football fan.


Many of you probably remember that I'm originally from the Los Angeles area. Woody Hayes. Name sounds familiar. I seem to remember quite a rivalry between OS and USC in the Rose Bowl. If memory serves me the Trojans usually were the winners of those games.


Go Trojans! No demerits, they are not on the list.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12478341
> 
> 
> Yeah, even I've heard that story. And I'm not a big college football fan.
> 
> 
> Many of you probably remember that I'm originally from the Los Angeles area. Woody Hayes. Name sounds familiar. I seem to remember quite a rivalry between OS and USC in the Rose Bowl. If memory serves me the Trojans usually were the winners of those games.
> 
> 
> Go Trojans! No demerits, they are not on the list.



That's because Woody and the Buckeye boys have notoriously put so much effort and emotion into the last regular game of the season against "THAT TEAM UP NORTH", that they simply didn't have anything left for Bowl games. Now that is a great rivalry.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12478425
> 
> 
> That's because Woody and the Buckeye boys have notoriously put so much effort and emotion into the last regular game of the season against *Michigan*, that they simply didn't have anything left for Bowl games. Now that is a great rivalry.



That's one demerit.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12478478
> 
> 
> That's one demerit.



Damn, how did I let that slip!?


Anyways, I edited my above post to not mention that team up north more specifically...


----------



## MParris86

Ok, I'm a newbie and have a few questions for the vets and tech-savvy folks. I'm sure my answers are somewhere in here, but I don't have time to sort through 356 pages.


I just bought a house in Bay Village and had Dish Network install an HD-DVR on my HD LCD television. I get all the national channels in HD (ESPN, TBS, etc.) but Dish Network still doesn't have the local HD channels (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC).


I looked on antennaweb.org and determined I would need a multi-directional VHF/UHF antenna to receive these channels with terminals approx. 13-15 miles away.


My questions are:


1) Can I purchase an antenna at a Circuit City/RadioShack to complement my HD-DVR so I can receive the local channels? If so, will they "show up" on my Dish program guide or does the Dish receiver need to be turned off? Any additional info/feedback on this is appreciated.


2) I have a colonial house so I really don't feel like climbing up 30ft onto my roof; can the above be accomplished with an indoor antenna?


3) What antennas are the best? I don't have the biggest budget right now after buying a house and $2k TV.



Any help or recommendations is much appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MParris86* /forum/post/12481429
> 
> 
> Ok, I'm a newbie and have a few questions for the vets and tech-savvy folks. I'm sure my answers are somewhere in here, but I don't have time to sort through 356 pages.
> 
> 
> I just bought a house in Bay Village and had Dish Network install an HD-DVR on my HD LCD television. I get all the national channels in HD (ESPN, TBS, etc.) but Dish Network still doesn't have the local HD channels (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC).
> 
> 
> I looked on antennaweb.org and determined I would need a multi-directional VHF/UHF antenna to receive these channels with terminals approx. 13-15 miles away.
> 
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 
> 1) Can I purchase an antenna at a Circuit City/RadioShack to complement my HD-DVR so I can receive the local channels? If so, will they "show up" on my Dish program guide or does the Dish receiver need to be turned off? Any additional info/feedback on this is appreciated.
> 
> 
> 2) I have a colonial house so I really don't feel like climbing up 30ft onto my roof; can the above be accomplished with an indoor antenna?
> 
> 
> 3) What antennas are the best? I don't have the biggest budget right now after buying a house and $2k TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Any help or recommendations is much appreciated. Thanks!



I don't have sat service, so I can't answer that portion. But I I may be able to help with the antenna portion. I dought an indoor set-top antenna would work well out that far.


I do get HD locals OTA. I'm in Strongsville and tried a good directional outdoor antenna in my attic with limited success. Best I got was 75% signal at best, some (like Ch3/WKYC with it's notoriously weak signal) came in only 1/3 of the time. I replaced that outdoor directional Winegard antenna that was in my attic with an outdoor Winegard multi-directional, mounted on my chimney. It looks like a 24" "dish" but perfectly flat and sits horizontal. Works very well and is very discreet (outdoor antennas are prohibited in my development). I even stained it the same color as the house to help it blend in better.


Both of these antennas were very reasonable ($ 140 directional, $ 98 multi-directional saucer). If you want the info on either I'll gladly look up the model numbers and post here.


----------



## JJkizak

Might be best if you had someone else climb the 30 ft. My antenna is a DC-9000 from MCM Electronics for about &90.00, VHF/UHF, 91 elements and 17 ft long. They will ship it UPS dissassembled. You probably will not be happy with an indoor antenna. Fades on digital channels are an absolutely miserable experience.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

I don't know anything about OTA, but I do know from what I've read that roof top is best and there is a guy named Jim West who seems highly recommended who will help you.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MParris86* /forum/post/12481429
> 
> 
> Ok, I'm a newbie and have a few questions for the vets and tech-savvy folks. I'm sure my answers are somewhere in here, but I don't have time to sort through 356 pages.
> 
> 
> I just bought a house in Bay Village and had Dish Network install an HD-DVR on my HD LCD television. I get all the national channels in HD (ESPN, TBS, etc.) but Dish Network still doesn't have the local HD channels (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC).
> 
> 
> I looked on antennaweb.org and determined I would need a multi-directional VHF/UHF antenna to receive these channels with terminals approx. 13-15 miles away.
> 
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 
> 1) Can I purchase an antenna at a Circuit City/RadioShack to complement my HD-DVR so I can receive the local channels? If so, will they "show up" on my Dish program guide or does the Dish receiver need to be turned off? Any additional info/feedback on this is appreciated.
> 
> 
> 2) I have a colonial house so I really don't feel like climbing up 30ft onto my roof; can the above be accomplished with an indoor antenna?
> 
> 
> 3) What antennas are the best? I don't have the biggest budget right now after buying a house and $2k TV.
> 
> 
> 
> Any help or recommendations is much appreciated. Thanks!



I too have a Dish Network (abbreviation: "E*") HD DVR. To get the HD OTA signals you need an outdoor antenna, but not necessarily a "multidirectional" antenna. From Bay Village the Parma antenna farm should be a straight shot. the slight differences in compass direction from station to station should not be much of a factor. Just aim at the center of the bunch. The only reason to aim beyond Parma is if you wanted the Akron stations (if you are a big PBS viewer that may be a necessity since WVIZ's digital signal barely makes it beyond Brookpark Rd.). the toughest signals to get are WKYC (this is a temporary situation as WKYC will move to ch 17 in 2009) and WOIO (who insists on being on ch 10 even though Canada will still be analog for years after the USA goes all digital). So you will need a good *all band* antenna.


As for your E* DVR getting the locals into the guide, you have to scan for OTA signals after connecting a good antenna. The channel numbers and call letters will be displayed with their "virtual" channel numbers (i.e. their current analog channel numbers 3, 5, 8... even though the actual rf frequency is 2, 15, 10,...). If you want guide data for the OTA station E* makes you subscribe to the SD Cleveland locals (btw I don't subscribe so I get "local programming" in place of the actual program names).


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12478341
> 
> 
> Many of you probably remember that I'm originally from the Los Angeles area. Woody Hayes. Name sounds familiar. I seem to remember quite a rivalry between OS and USC in the Rose Bowl. If memory serves me the Trojans usually were the winners of those games.
> 
> 
> Go Trojans! No demerits, they are not on the list.



You're from LA? The reindeer goat cheese pizza capital of the world? That in itself may deserve additional demerits...










(Bonus points for the first person to identify the correct source of the pizza reference. Additional points to point out the intended irony. Prize-winning points if you own the DVD.)


----------



## rebel66

I just installed a newly purchased Samsung LN-T3753H in my apartment in Lakewood. I'm on the 10th floor at Bunts and Detroit with an unobstructed line of site to the "tower farm". The over air HD feeds from all the local stations are superb with $10 "rabbit ears" connected to the ANT1 connector. I wonder how many people here know that WVIZ has four feeds, including audio only. With a twist of the antenna, I can even get a perfect picture from all the PBS feeds from channel 49 in Akron. The exception is WKYC which is all but unviewable which is really a shame considering the money they spent on their new digs on Lakeside Ave. What a waste!

My cable provider is Cox from which I obtained a Scientific Atlanta 4250HDC interface. I also have a PS2, an upconverting DVD, and a VCR hooked up. The only reason I have the STB is because the PIP has to have an HDMI input as the main screen for it to work.

This LCD HD television is the future with 9 input sources of which 3 are HDMI, 2 composite, 2 RF and 2 S-video. Between the inputs, user controllable manual adjustments and the ones available on the cable box, the combinations are infinite.

Buy this TV!


----------



## toby10




Michael P 2341 said:


> I too have a Dish Network (abbreviation: "E*") HD DVR. To get the HD OTA signals you need an outdoor antenna, but not necessarily a "multidirectional" antenna. From Bay Village the Parma antenna farm should be a straight shot. the slight differences in compass direction from station to station should not be much of a factor. Just aim at the center of the bunch. The only reason to aim beyond Parma is if you wanted the Akron stations (if you are a big PBS viewer that may be a necessity since WVIZ's digital signal barely makes it beyond Brookpark Rd.). the toughest signals to get are WKYC (this is a temporary situation as WKYC will move to ch 17 in 2009) and WOIO (who insists on being on ch 10 even though Canada will still be analog for years after the USA goes all digital). So you will need a good *all band* antenna.
> 
> 
> Mparis86: Michael P is absolutely correct, a directional would not only work in your situation, it is probably a better solution for you due to your distance and would certainly help in picking up the weaker signals like WKYC & WOIO.
> 
> 
> I should have been more clear before: I did the directional antenna inside the attic knowing that the attic walls & roof would deplete as much as 50% of the signal. When I decided to go with an outdoor antenna the aesthetics (as low profile as possible) was just as important to me as the signal.
> 
> 
> directional = somewhat largish, standard looking TV antenna, stronger reception, will pick up signals further away
> 
> 
> my multi-directional = Winegard MS 2000, very low profile, picks up every local Cleveland digital broadcast except WVIZ, picks up WKYC & WOIO with no problem, weakest digital signal I have ever seen with this antenna is 75%
> 
> 
> Pics of MS 2000
> http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1073325.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12486983
> 
> 
> You're from LA?




With the way the Browns are playing this year I can no longer use my joke.


What do L.A. and Cleveland have in common? Neither have a professional football team.


However since we love to go off topic (at least some do) there is an old joke (brain twister) that has come back into use, effective 2008.


There are 4 teams in MLB that have the letter "C" on their cap. Can you name them? Hint: One only wears it on their batting helmets now.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12486983
> 
> 
> You're from LA? The reindeer goat cheese pizza capital of the world? That in itself may deserve additional demerits...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Bonus points for the first person to identify the correct source of the pizza reference. Additional points to point out the intended irony. Prize-winning points if you own the DVD.)



That from the '91 Bruce Willis Flick, "Hudson Hawk"?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12487438
> 
> 
> With the way the Browns are playing this year I can no longer use my joke.
> 
> 
> What do L.A. and Cleveland have in common? Neither have a professional football team.
> 
> 
> However since we love to go off topic (at least some do) there is an old joke (brain twister) that has come back into use, effective 2008.
> 
> *There are 4 teams in MLB that have the letter "C" on their cap. Can you name them? Hint: One only wears it on their batting helmets now.*



Chicago Cubs ("C"), Cincinnati Reds ("C"), Minnesota Twins ("TC") and the Colorado Rockies ("CR"). However, I thought the Cubs and Reds both have the letter "C" on their batting helmets?







.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12487547
> 
> 
> Chicago Cubs ("C"), Cincinnati Reds ("C"), Minnesota Twins ("TC") and the Colorado Rockies ("CR"). However, I thought the Cubs and Reds both have the letter "C" on their batting helmets?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....




You get extra bonus points and I get a demerit. This was a bar puzzle I use to use in the 70's and so the question has gone to 5 teams with the addition of the Colorado Rockies. You did include Reds and Cubs in your answer, but you left out the Kansas City Royals. What most people missed was the Minnesota Twins. The Twins now use M on the cap and TC on the helmet. You also left out the Cleveland Indians who this year will go back to the C, hence the 2008 comment.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12487498
> 
> 
> That from the '91 Bruce Willis Flick, "Hudson Hawk"?



10 demerits for watching Hudson Hawk







.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12465162
> 
> 
> This doesn't sound right. Cable operators have the means to rate-shape and throttle the downlinked signal to fit their requirements. I'd want to see the source material for that claim.



Found in the thread "Widescreen Review - the best days of HD are behind us"



> Quote:
> A handful of content providers are now distributing their feeds in MPEG-2 at anywhere from 8-13Mbps ABR. They've degraded their HD source feeds for everyone so cable companies can fit more channels onto their systems.
> 
> 
> Sadly, it looks like the days of 17-19Mbps ABR source feeds are coming to an end. I don't know of a single channel launched in 2007 that is now distributed with more than 16Mbps ABR. Some channels like NGC-HD had higher source bitrates initially, but bitrate and quality was reduced at the request of some cable companies.


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post12303538


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12490673
> 
> 
> Found in the thread "Widescreen Review - the best days of HD are behind us"
> 
> [/url]



If those were the best days then I hate to see what's coming up. Seriously 2 years ago there were times when HD channels would lose transmission and if you called and complained to a station (WOIO in particular-SURPRISE) they didn't put any effort into fixing it because the majority of people did not have HD. Only over the last year has things improved and I'm sure that is because HD is now more affordable and much more popular.


IMHO the best days are yet to come.


----------



## JJkizak

Even a terrific HDTV cannot make up for an 8 meg mpeg2 bitrate. That's plain old ordinary DVD-R, DVD+R stuff.

JJK


----------



## mike888

WKYC just posted a lot of information about the digital converter coupon program HERE .


If you have any TVs that aren't hooked to cable or satellite, this will allow you to convert the OTA digital signal to analog for your TV.


You can apply for up to 2 coupons beginning January 1, 2008, but you _won't be able to use the coupons until February 17, 2008_. The site also shows you a sample application and gives you a list of retailers that will honor the coupons.


We're getting closer to February 17, 2009...


----------



## nickdawg

Way to go, NBC!







Their shameful self-promotion of "Clash of the Choirs" logo is the most irritating logo on TV right now. The big, color bird with the "Clash of the Choirs Monday 8PM" text AND it's on the wrong side of the screen! And tonight it's on over the classic "It's a Wonderful Life". Oh well, an irritating advertisement for an even more irritating show!










It seems the networks are in a competition to be the most irritating. First, NBC moves the logo to the wrong side of the screen. Then it's that opaque white color instead of clear and the "HD" text is added.


NBC' Today show has that animated graphic on the screen as well. Then, this year Good Morning America switches to a similar style logo as well. What ever happened to the days pf NO on-screen logos? Especially in the world of HDTV, these constant on-screen things are not good for Plasma screens.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12494994
> 
> 
> Way to go, NBC!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their shameful self-promotion of "Clash of the Choirs" logo is the most irritating logo on TV right now. The big, color bird with the "Clash of the Choirs Monday 8PM" text AND it's on the wrong side of the screen! And tonight it's on over the classic "It's a Wonderful Life". Oh well, an irritating advertisement for an even more irritating show!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems the networks are in a competition to be the most irritating. First, NBC moves the logo to the wrong side of the screen. Then it's that opaque white color instead of clear and the "HD" text is added.
> 
> 
> NBC' Today show has that animated graphic on the screen as well. Then, this year Good Morning America switches to a similar style logo as well. What ever happened to the days pf NO on-screen logos? Especially in the world of HDTV, these constant on-screen things are not good for Plasma screens.



For me the network logos are not the problem on my plasmas. The only burn in I'm getting is from the damn cable box info bar (ch., show title, etc..) on the bottom of the screen. It cannot be turned off or moved. For heavy channel surfing I have to use zoom aspect ratio to get the info bar to not display.


----------



## jtscherne

Below is an article that discusses Time Warner changes because of the recent law change that puts them under state regulation:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/pl...310.xml&coll=2


----------



## jtscherne

It looks like the Browns will finish the season in HD (assuming the Fox game in Week 17 will be in HD):

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/nfl.php


----------



## paule123

The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be HD for the first time this Monday night. It looks like my only option for recording this via D* is going OTA on WNEO channel 49-2 ? The D* channel "CL49" is always SD, correct?


It looks like 49-2 is mostly SD programming, and 49-1 carries the PBS HD "loop". While the Newshour is running on 49-2, there will be HD programming running on 49-1 at the same time. I'm curious to see what the PQ will look like.


(Don't even bother mentioning WVIZ, they are useless)


----------



## jtscherne

Directv does not offer PBS in HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12498375
> 
> 
> (Don't even bother mentioning WVIZ, they are useless)




I agree! I get both on Time Warner and WNEO is way better than WVIZ. WNEO-DT also sends along the SD digital version of their SD channel and shows like "Nature" are in 5.1 surround. WVIZ is always 2.0. But with thier weak HD signal, I don't think digital TV is a priority to them right now. Guess they better do some more begging for money


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12496380
> 
> 
> For me the network logos are not the problem on my plasmas. The only burn in I'm getting is from the damn cable box info bar (ch., show title, etc..) on the bottom of the screen. It cannot be turned off or moved. For heavy channel surfing I have to use zoom aspect ratio to get the info bar to not display.



Toby, how old are your plasmas? I've been hearing claims that they've improved the burn-in issue in the last couple of years, but I don't know if that's actually true. The orbiting feature helps somewhat, but I'm hoping they'll come up with improvements in the phosphor and gas mixture also.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12501348
> 
> 
> Toby, how old are your plasmas? I've been hearing claims that they've improved the burn-in issue in the last couple of years, but I don't know if that's actually true. The orbiting feature helps somewhat, but I'm hoping they'll come up with improvements in the phosphor and gas mixture also.



I was watching something the other day that was talking about the different HDTV's. Plasma they said does have a tendency to have burn in and you probably would need a new one or have to put "gas" in it to make it last.


They gave top nod to LCD. No mention of projection, now that I think about it.


My HDTV is CRT and I don't think they make them anymore. A 30" screen is like 200 pounds. But I love the picture and I'll be it will last for years.


----------



## paule123

Cavs game on D* tonight - looks like D* is incorrectly flagging FSNOH HD channel 637-1 as 1080i. Anybody else seeing this? The audio on the announcers was also out of sync. I'm going to email them a note to complain.


Hook - "refilling the gas" on plasmas is one of those urban myths that got spread around thanks to the internet - there's no truth in that whatsoever. Anybody that is spouting that garbage on TV these days is seriously misinformed.


But to the burn in issue, yes, I have seen the plasmas we use at work do that relatively quickly with static images fed from a PC. I've seen burn in as little as a week, despite what the plasma fanboys say. From what I can tell the burn in really isn't an issue for normal TV watching, though.


With that said, I love my Panny plasmas, and wouldn't want to watch on anything else (other than a CRT which has comparable color quality, clarity, and brightness from any viewing angle)


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12501740
> 
> 
> Cavs game on D* tonight - looks like D* is incorrectly flagging FSNOH HD channel 637-1 as 1080i. Anybody else seeing this? The audio on the announcers was also out of sync. I'm going to email them a note to complain.
> 
> 
> Hook - "refilling the gas" on plasmas is one of those urban myths that got spread around thanks to the internet - there's no truth in that whatsoever. Anybody that is spouting that garbage on TV these days is seriously misinformed.
> 
> 
> But to the burn in issue, yes, I have seen the plasmas we use at work do that relatively quickly with static images fed from a PC. I've seen burn in as little as a week, despite what the plasma fanboys say. From what I can tell the burn in really isn't an issue for normal TV watching, though.
> 
> 
> With that said, I love my Panny plasmas, and wouldn't want to watch on anything else (other than a CRT which has comparable color quality, clarity, and brightness from any viewing angle)



There is indeed a gas (actually a mixture of gases such as xenon, argon...) inside every pixel in a plasma set. They work on the same principle as fluorescent lights. The gas ionizes and lights up, producing shortwave UV light as well as a little bit of visible light. The UV light causes the phosphor coating to fluoresce, just like the white phosphor coating on fluorescent bulbs downconverts UV light to longer, visible wavelengths. And the phosphors in fluorescent bulbs wear out also, largely because of the caustic effect of shortwave UV bombardment.


The gas isn't field-replaceable, of course. But I've got to wonder whether there's a better mixture of phosphors and gases that can produce an equivalent fluorescence with longer UV wavelengths, which might have less of a tendency to eat the phosphors.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12487498
> 
> 
> That from the '91 Bruce Willis Flick, "Hudson Hawk"?



Ding, ding! We have a winner!


Now the big question - did you know the answer, or did you have to look it up?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12489438
> 
> 
> 10 demerits for watching Hudson Hawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Hehe... Back then, we (myself and three housemates) had the theater Hudson Hawk poster proudly displayed in the living room. The poster hangs to this day at my friend's place in Massillon, and we routinely spout off quotes from the movie to each other.


It's a pretty dumb movie, the ratings sucked, but hey - it's fun...










9 of 10 demerits accepted without appeal.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12502103
> 
> 
> The gas isn't field-replaceable, of course. But I've got to wonder whether there's a better mixture of phosphors and gases that can produce an equivalent fluorescence with longer UV wavelengths, which might have less of a tendency to eat the phosphors.



I've been wondering for a while how accurate the recent reports of permanent plasma burn-in are. I bought a 50" Panasonic plasma last May. A month or two later, I was looking at a blank screen and noticed ghostly boxes that likened themselves to the DVR/channel guide screens - not good. After freaking out about my new TV getting damaged so quickly, I tried a little experiment. Turned the TV off for a while (maybe 15-20 minutes?), turned off the cable box, and turned the TV back on. Up came a blank screen with no boxes. (Input set to component, not HDMI, so it was indeed "showing" a blank screen.) Turned on the cable box and brought up the channel guide. Let it sit for a few minutes, then turned the cable box off - the boxes showed up again. Repeated a few times, and always had the same result.


Dunno - maybe there's some sort of temporary burn-in/memory with the newer plasmas that "resets" itself after being turned off for a while? If so, it's annoying, but far better than permanent damage. I'll need to dig into this further...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12503054
> 
> 
> I've been wondering for a while how accurate the recent reports of permanent plasma burn-in are. I bought a 50" Panasonic plasma last May. A month or two later, I was looking at a blank screen and noticed ghostly boxes that likened themselves to the DVR/channel guide screens - not good. After freaking out about my new TV getting damaged so quickly, I tried a little experiment. Turned the TV off for a while (maybe 15-20 minutes?), turned off the cable box, and turned the TV back on. Up came a blank screen with no boxes. (Input set to component, not HDMI, so it was indeed "showing" a blank screen.) Turned on the cable box and brought up the channel guide. Let it sit for a few minutes, then turned the cable box off - the boxes showed up again. Repeated a few times, and always had the same result.
> 
> 
> Dunno - maybe there's some sort of temporary burn-in/memory with the newer plasmas that "resets" itself after being turned off for a while? If so, it's annoying, but far better than permanent damage. I'll need to dig into this further...



What you are referring to is Image Retention, not Burn In. You described it quite well, it's a very temporary left over image, usually most noticeable when making drastic color changes on the screen (i.e. white to black scene, vise versa). Nothing to worry about and can be negated (though not fixed) by keeping your brightness levels down.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12501348
> 
> 
> Toby, how old are your plasmas? I've been hearing claims that they've improved the burn-in issue in the last couple of years, but I don't know if that's actually true. The orbiting feature helps somewhat, but I'm hoping they'll come up with improvements in the phosphor and gas mixture also.



I have two 42" plasmas, Panny & NEC, both about two years old. The NEC is the main tv in the house and is run constantly! The NEC is the main Burn In culprit due to it's heavy usage. The Panny only sees maybe 25% of the usage of the NEC. Both render very nice images and each model has it's advantages & disadvantages.


My NEC Burn In is completely undetectable for probably 90+% of tv viewing (and you bet I'm looking for it). But it is noticeable with a white or light blue background image, like a sky shot.


I'm sure the Burn In is much less a factor now than 10 years ago, but it is still an issue. The orbiter can help, but like any feature that plays with the image it also alters or softens the image.


As far as future plasma improvements, I seriously doubt plasmas will even be manufactured 10 years from now as LCD's are closing the gap (and in many cases have surpassed) in overall PQ. I am by no means an industry insider, it's just a hunch.










Don't get me wrong, I knew damn well what I was getting into with plasmas and I'm still thrilled with my purchases. If I were buying today I'd most likely go LCD. Two years ago, comparing features & overall PQ, the LCD's were lagging in the same size & price point. Completely different story today.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12501740
> 
> 
> Hook - "refilling the gas" on plasmas is one of those urban myths that got spread around thanks to the internet - there's no truth in that whatsoever. Anybody that is spouting that garbage on TV these days is seriously misinformed.



I don't exactly remember what I was watching when I saw that but I kind of think it may have been either Fox News 8 or a Saturday "Today" show. Anyway I would accept your explanation before I would those people. Thanks for informing me.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12503619
> 
> 
> I don't exactly remember what I was watching when I saw that but I kind of think it may have been either Fox News 8 or a Saturday "Today" show. Anyway I would accept your explanation before I would those people. Thanks for informing me.



I've seen some rather poor examples of technology "reporting" in some places, even occasionally on a national news story. It's as if the reporter walked into a Best Buy, looked at a few sets, chatted with some folks there and then wrote the report based solely upon the input gathered there. Fluff news at it's worst.


If you're going to do a story on CE technology, do some research into what makes the stuff work, then report on the specific implementations rather than making bland generalizations.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Anyone lose their HD channels today???






























Right when the Browns were starting...

Everything went to snow, EVERYTHING.

Then color bars on all channels. Then SD is back on.

Still no digitals or HD.

What's really weird is that there are a few of those stupid "preview" channels on, AND WVIZ-HD is there... really weird.

So right now I'm stuck with SD.

I'm watching TimeWarner via QAM in Canton.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12505763
> 
> 
> Anyone lose their HD channels today???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right when the Browns were starting...
> 
> Everything went to snow, EVERYTHING.
> 
> Then color bars on all channels. Then SD is back on.
> 
> Still no digitals or HD.
> 
> What's really weird is that there are a few of those stupid "preview" channels on, AND WVIZ-HD is there... really weird.
> 
> So right now I'm stuck with SD.
> 
> I'm watching TimeWarner via QAM in Canton.



No problems here watching Browns via TW on my S3.


Matter of fact the blizzard outside my picture windows looks just like on TV.










Actually I credit CBS for doing a pretty darn good job so far considering the weather.


How about that safety! I've never seen that before.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12505763
> 
> 
> Anyone lose their HD channels today???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right when the Browns were starting...
> 
> Everything went to snow, EVERYTHING.
> 
> Then color bars on all channels. Then SD is back on.
> 
> Still no digitals or HD.
> 
> What's really weird is that there are a few of those stupid "preview" channels on, AND WVIZ-HD is there... really weird.
> 
> So right now I'm stuck with SD.
> 
> I'm watching TimeWarner via QAM in Canton.



It's gotta be a localized outage. It's fine up north via TWC.


----------



## Smarty-pants

The safety was awesome, BUT DID YOU JUST SEE THAT FG?!?!?!?!?!

HOLY SHOOT!!!! 49 YARDS IN A FREAKIN BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12503337
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I knew damn well what I was getting into with plasmas and I'm still thrilled with my purchases. If I were buying today I'd most likely go LCD. Two years ago, comparing features & overall PQ, the LCD's were lagging in the same size & price point. Completely different story today.



Thanks, Toby. You make a good point - your purchase represented a good value to you at that time, and I'm glad to hear that you're still enjoying your sets. It's just like anything else in technology.


Way back when I was in school, I bought the Texas Instruments SR-10 calculator for $75. It was the first calculator that could do square roots, and that was a BIG deal for me in electronics school since I was constantly doing square roots for impedance calculations. And $75 was a lot more money back then! These days you can get a calculator that runs on light and does rings around the SR-10 for $3 . Still, that purchase represented a huge value to me at the time since I hated using a slide rule to get my work done.


BTW I still have that calculator. I wish they still made calculators with those big clicky keys. The tactile feedback was great.


----------



## Inundated

Snowing here, and getting Browns/Bills with no problem on WOIO-DT/Time Warner Cable... former Adelphia division.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12506064
> 
> 
> Snowing here, and getting Browns/Bills with no problem on WOIO-DT/Time Warner Cable... former Adelphia division.



Of course I AM seeing a lot of snow in the picture! Oh wait, it's on the field.


----------



## hookbill

I was getting alot of static from my rear speakers throughout the Browns game. The moment they switched to the Pittsburgh game the sound was crystal clear. Anybody else notice this?


----------



## jtscherne

I was watching it on Sunday Ticket and got the static too, so I suspect the problem was onsite.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12506699
> 
> 
> I was watching it on Sunday Ticket and got the static too, so I suspect the problem was onsite.



They also gave up on the virtual graphics on the field. I'm guessing that they were unable to calibrate the camera heads to the computers with all that snow.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12506699
> 
> 
> I was watching it on Sunday Ticket and got the static too, so I suspect the problem was onsite.



Glad to hear it just wasn't me. Just curious, why were you watching on Sunday Ticket? Are you out of the area right now? I would think there would be a blackout rule for Sunday Ticket.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12506969
> 
> 
> Glad to hear it just wasn't me. Just curious, why were you watching on Sunday Ticket? Are you out of the area right now? I would think there would be a blackout rule for Sunday Ticket.



I might be wrong, but I think he spends a chunk of the winter in Florida.


This game reminds me of a Browns game up here when I was visiting Florida, and the snow was just as bad. I listened to the Browns call via satellite radio, and the weather was in the 70's!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12506825
> 
> 
> They also gave up on the virtual graphics on the field. I'm guessing that they were unable to calibrate the camera heads to the computers with all that snow.



I didn't realize that until you posted. Goes to show really how unnecessary all those graphics are.


Then again, my wife and I use to go to a Bob Evens every Sunday for breakfast. They completely remodeld the place and I didn't notice a thing.


I'm not very observant.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12507184
> 
> 
> I might be wrong, but I think he spends a chunk of the winter in Florida.
> 
> 
> This game reminds me of a Browns game up here when I was visiting Florida, and the snow was just as bad. I listened to the Browns call via satellite radio, and the weather was in the 70's!



Well, it's 70 degrees in my house too. And I didn't pay parking or anything.


I liked it when that one dude on the Bills got close to the dog pound and someone nailed him on the helmet with a snow ball.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12506969
> 
> 
> Glad to hear it just wasn't me. Just curious, why were you watching on Sunday Ticket? Are you out of the area right now? I would think there would be a blackout rule for Sunday Ticket.



Same rear static/crackling here with OTA. Definitely a source problem. Of course the commercials were fine on rears!







It amazes me that when they are obviously having microphone or audio problems on the field why they just don't turn them OFF instead of broadcasting garbage! The snow blowers on the field were annoying!


I'll take a good 2.1 over a bad 5.1 any day!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12503290
> 
> 
> What you are referring to is Image Retention, not Burn In. You described it quite well, it's a very temporary left over image, usually most noticeable when making drastic color changes on the screen (i.e. white to black scene, vise versa). Nothing to worry about and can be negated (though not fixed) by keeping your brightness levels down.



Very cool - glad to know I was freaking out over nothing.







Shortly after I got my plasma, I turned the picture and brightness settings way down to something like -16 and -8, respectively. It took a few days to get used to the darker screen, but it's perfectly comfortable to watch now. (I'm still amazed every Monday with the vivid colors on CSI Miami.)


----------



## k2rj

My cable went out in Solon with 1:34 left to play! Fortunately the radio receiver still worked! Evidently there was a power outage somewhere (I think a car creamed a pole) as when I was going down to Hudson after the game, many of the lights on S.O.M. were in failsoft (flashing yellow). When I returned a few hours later, all was well...


----------



## JJkizak

I was fuming at the half on local channel 19.1 OTA for busting the national feed to tell me that it was snowing. These people are idiots.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12511689
> 
> 
> I was fuming at the half on local channel 19.1 OTA for busting the national feed to tell me that it was snowing. These people are idiots.
> 
> JJK



I watched the home game and I didn't notice that (see above for how observant I am). I did notice they talked about the weather during the half time show cutting out part of that but who the heck cares about that?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/12511682
> 
> 
> My cable went out in Solon with 1:34 left to play! Fortunately the radio receiver still worked! Evidently there was a power outage somewhere (I think a car creamed a pole) as when I was going down to Hudson after the game, many of the lights on S.O.M. were in failsoft (flashing yellow). When I returned a few hours later, all was well...



Yeah, I was at the newly opened Scorchers in Twinsburg to watch the game and the power went out early in the 4th quarter. The bad thing was that we had to wait for the power to go back on to cash out since all of our tabs were stored electronically in their computers! Once the power came back on, the owner of Scorchers was having a hell of a time trying to get everything back up and running. After I cashed out I listened to the remainder of the game in the car to the tune of Donovan/Dieken, while I braved the storm on my way back home....


*Future note: All bar owners need to keep a battery powered AM/FM stereo on hand in case of a sudden power outage during a big sporting event. When the power went out during the Browns game at Scorchers, the crowded bar's silence was deafening. People resorted to their web enabled cell phones/i-phones to provide game updates to the remaining crowd....


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12507464
> 
> 
> Same rear static/crackling here with OTA. Definitely a source problem. Of course the commercials were fine on rears!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It amazes me that when they are obviously having microphone or audio problems on the field why they just don't turn them OFF instead of broadcasting garbage! The snow blowers on the field were annoying!



I had presumed folks were talking about the snow blowers as the source of the static. The snow blowers were running all the time and miked too hot - I presume that was unavoidable beyond shutting down the parabolics and just not doing any game/crowd noise at all - which resulted in a loud static roar in the rears for much of the game, but that was the sound on the field from the snow blowers.


I was watching on NFL Sunday Ticket as this year they haven't been blacking out the HD games at all & it's just easier for channel flipping during commercials. Plus Sunday Ticket never downrezzes to SD to tell us it's snowing! Like we couldn't figure that out from the pics of the home game or anything...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/12512242
> 
> 
> I had presumed folks were talking about the snow blowers as the source of the static. The snow blowers were running all the time and miked too hot - I presume that was unavoidable beyond shutting down the parabolics and just not doing any game/crowd noise at all - which resulted in a loud static roar in the rears for much of the game, but that was the sound on the field from the snow blowers.
> 
> 
> I was watching on NFL Sunday Ticket as this year they haven't been blacking out the HD games at all & it's just easier for channel flipping during commercials. Plus Sunday Ticket never downrezzes to SD to tell us it's snowing! Like we couldn't figure that out from the pics of the home game or anything...



When the crowd roared it seemed just like loud static to me, which made me question if it was my audio system or not. However as someone else pointed out commercials came in just fine in the rear speakers.


Interesting that they don't black out home games. I'll bet if WOIO gets word of that they would get p.o.'d as they do have local commercials during the game.


But don't worry, your secret is safe with me. It's the rest of the internet you've got to worry about.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/12512242
> 
> 
> I had presumed folks were talking about the snow blowers as the source of the static. The snow blowers were running all the time and miked too hot - I presume that was unavoidable beyond shutting down the parabolics and just not doing any game/crowd noise at all - which resulted in a loud static roar in the rears for much of the game, but that was the sound on the field from the snow blowers.
> 
> 
> I was watching on NFL Sunday Ticket as this year they haven't been blacking out the HD games at all & it's just easier for channel flipping during commercials. Plus Sunday Ticket never downrezzes to SD to tell us it's snowing! Like we couldn't figure that out from the pics of the home game or anything...



Well, my ears are not what they used to be (too many AC/DC, Rush and Michael Stanley concerts in my misspent youth), but on my 5.1 system I'm pretty sure I was getting static/crackling in the rears, plus the snow blowers.


I just don't get why with *any* broadcast, especially a live broadcast, they don't have someone listening to the actual received audio feed and calling in problems. Why bother sending out 5.1 when the rears are not functioning? Why not turn off the parabolics when the needed snow blowers are obnoxiously loud and the rears are not functioning properly anyway.










There may well be simple technical reasons why they cannot do this. But as I said, I'd much prefer to get a good (or better) 2.1 or simplistic analog audio feed than a botched (or weather related) problematic 5.1 feed.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12511689
> 
> 
> I was fuming at the half on local channel 19.1 OTA for busting the national feed to tell me that it was snowing. These people are idiots.
> 
> JJK



That's why I watch WKBN-DT instead (as a bonus I got to see the FOX game that was not being shown on WJW during the commercial breaks)










I almost watched WOIO instead because the last part of the pregame on WKBN went SD (WKBN lost the HD feed, there was a "lost signal" message being broadcast. They probably had to dust off their satellite dish. Fortunately the game popped up in HD just in time).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12498375
> 
> 
> The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be HD for the first time this Monday night. It looks like my only option for recording this via D* is going OTA on WNEO channel 49-2 ? The D* channel "CL49" is always SD, correct?
> 
> 
> It looks like 49-2 is mostly SD programming, and 49-1 carries the PBS HD "loop". While the Newshour is running on 49-2, there will be HD programming running on 49-1 at the same time. I'm curious to see what the PQ will look like.
> 
> 
> (Don't even bother mentioning WVIZ, they are useless)



Don't bother trying to get HD on 49-2. All subchannels beyond "-1" are SD all the time. If "NewsHour" is going HD it has to be scheduled to appear on PBS HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12511992
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was at the newly opened Scorchers in Twinsburg to watch the game and the power went out early in the 4th quarter. The bad thing was that we had to wait for the power to go back on to cash out since all of our tabs were stored electronically in their computers! Once the power came back on, the owner of Scorchers was having a hell of a time trying to get everything back up and running. After I cashed out I listened to the remainder of the game in the car to the tune of Donovan/Dieken, while I braved the storm on my way back home....
> 
> 
> *Future note: All bar owners need to keep a battery powered AM/FM stereo on hand in case of a sudden power outage during a big sporting event. When the power went out during the Browns game at Scorchers, the crowded bar's silence was deafening. People resorted to their web enabled cell phones/i-phones to provide game updates to the remaining crowd....




OK, I have to admit I'm curious. I can understand going to a bar and the crowd and all that. I know how fun that makes things. But you knew or at least you should have known a major storm was on it's way. You've got HDTV at home. The price of beer is cheap.










So if you can explain the logic of going out to see that game I'd sure like to hear it!


And driving home? From a bar? In a blizzard? Sounds like something I would do when I was younger and I'm not saying you were intoxicated because I wasn't there but just all that risk.










And for what it's worth you couldn't get me out to the game even if I had front row seats on the 50 yard line in that weather!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12513860
> 
> 
> OK, I have to admit I'm curious. I can understand going to a bar and the crowd and all that. I know how fun that makes things. But you knew or at least you should have known a major storm was on it's way. You've got HDTV at home. The price of beer is cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if you can explain the logic of going out to see that game I'd sure like to hear it!



I had plans to go to the game in person, but the plans fell through, so I felt obligated to enjoy the game in company of other Browns fans. Besides, that's what they make 4-wheel-drive for!







Trust me, I'm from Lyndhurst, driving in snow is second nature. Slow and steady always does it for me....



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12513860
> 
> 
> And driving home? From a bar? In a blizzard? Sounds like something I would do when I was younger and I'm not saying you were intoxicated because I wasn't there but just all that risk.



2 beers the first half and plenty of coffee all second half. No risk whatsoever. Thanks for the concern though Pops....



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12513860
> 
> 
> And for what it's worth you couldn't get me out to the game even if I had front row seats on the 50 yard line in that weather!



That's why LA/Oakland can't seem to keep a steady Football team in their town. Californian's just don't understand. Somehow, it seems that us die-hard fans in the Midwest tend to think differently about that last statement. I would've gone to that game in a heartbeat......


----------



## JJkizak

HDMM:

I didn't think Scorchers would be open that quickly. Is that the one next to Gander Mountain?

JJK


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12517027
> 
> 
> HDMM:
> 
> I didn't think Scorchers would be open that quickly. Is that the one next to Gander Mountain?
> 
> JJK



Nope, that's Moose O'Malley's I believe. Scorchers is located behind the National City Bank where a Chinese restaurant used to be. From what I've been told, it just opened last Thursday.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12514451
> 
> 
> Besides, that's what they make 4-wheel-drive for!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trust me, I'm from Lyndhurst, driving in snow is second nature. Slow and steady always does it for me....



One of my life goals is complete - I've found a 4x4 owner who understands the concept of "slow and steady"!!!










I was driving from Cuyahoga Falls to Hudson on SR 8 Saturday night. Road conditions were pretty horrible, and the average speed was around 30-35 MPH. Some idiot in a big truck went flying past us at probably 65-70. I felt a great sense of satisfaction when I caught up to him a few miles down the road - he spun out and ended up stuck in the median....










4x4 might have better traction in terms of translating power from the transmission through the drive wheels to the road surface, but it doesn't help a bit when you slam on the brakes.


(End of rant.)


----------



## Norm78

Did anyone else with TW have issues with ESPN HD last evening during Monday Night Football? I had to watch the SD feed because the HD channel was a black screen.










When I called a CSR to see if they could fix the issue the girl was so rude. I am about this I-----I close to switching to DTV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/12521608
> 
> 
> Did anyone else with TW have issues with ESPN HD last evening during Monday Night Football? I had to watch the SD feed because the HD channel was a black screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I called a CSR to see if they could fix the issue the girl was so rude. I am about this I-----I close to switching to DTV.



Sorry, I don't watch MNF but I would highly recommend that if the CSR was rude to you that you send an email to TW with your account number or phone number and the time you called. I would have to say that TW CSR's have never been rude to me. And my experience with their knowledge runs on a scale of 10 from 2 to 9.


----------



## hookbill

It just occurred to me that those of us who are opposed to the writers strike have generally vented our frustration at the writers. Truth be known for anyone who has followed this story it is in fact the producers who are not coming back to the bargaining table.


This presents an interesting scenario. Here we have a group of fat cats (writers) who are whining and crying for more money. But what about these producers? What is their take on DVD, internet, etc. Does anyone know these facts?


It seems to me that the producers are the obese cats and the writers are the fat cats. True, both make a great deal of money but to end this strike the producers have to come back to the table.


I still don't like the strike and have no sympathy for either sides, however I do think that if the producers truly want to end this they will have to open their obese wallets and share the wealth with the already fat cats.


In the meantime we, as consumers, will continue to screwed.


Comments and observations are repectfully requested.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12521272
> 
> 
> One of my life goals is complete - I've found a 4x4 owner who understands the concept of "slow and steady"!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was driving from Cuyahoga Falls to Hudson on SR 8 Saturday night. Road conditions were pretty horrible, and the average speed was around 30-35 MPH. Some idiot in a big truck went flying past us at probably 65-70. I felt a great sense of satisfaction when I caught up to him a few miles down the road - he spun out and ended up stuck in the median....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x4 might have better traction in terms of translating power from the transmission through the drive wheels to the road surface, but it doesn't help a bit when you slam on the brakes.
> 
> 
> (End of rant.)



Completely agree. A lot of times, 4x4 creates a false sense of security. I still drive like an old man in the snow as a precaution. It's common that I am passed by small Aveo's or Prius' in the snow.


----------



## HD MM

Cleveland HD List updated as at&t U-Verse added 8 additional HD channels .


This addition brings U-Verse's HD count to 35.


See updated list: here.


----------



## JJkizak

Last night while watching channel 43.1 OTA the channel 19 news people accidently hit the wrong button and broadcast the anchors practicing their delivery's and fiddling with their impeccably clad bodies not knowing they were "live". The button pusher is probably fired. Then again maybe they promoted the rascal.

JJK


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12522061
> 
> 
> Last night while watching channel 43.1 OTA the channel 19 news people accidently hit the wrong button and broadcast the anchors practicing their delivery's and fiddling with their impeccably clad bodies not knowing they were "live". The button pusher is probably fired. Then again maybe they promoted the rascal.
> 
> JJK



nice


----------



## paule123

Question for Mr. PBS4549 -


The NewsHour was not HD last night on 49-2. Looked like SD stretch. I'm curious to know why.


It looks like WVIZ isn't bothering to carry this on any of their THREE subchannels.


----------



## Marshall Karp

My wife and I were channel surfing and came on this last night. For the first minute or so, I thought this was a special behind the scenes look at how they put together their news broadcasts. Then, I realized that it was in real time. Then, I realized that someone must of hit the wrong button, instead of some stop action Christmas special, we were seeing the actual news show prep. My wife and I kept waiting for someone let fly with profanity, flip a bird, or shoot a moon or something. Finally, we heard off screen voices say:


We just got a call that we are live.


No we're not.


We just got another call that we are live.


Someone must be playing a joke.


Everyone watch your language, we are live.


Cut to some hastily done Dallas Cowboy wallpaper screen.


Cut to stop action Christmas special.


Funny to be caught like this. Interesting how they shoot their spots, though.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12522061
> 
> 
> Last night while watching channel 43.1 OTA the channel 19 news people accidently hit the wrong button and broadcast the anchors practicing their delivery's and fiddling with their impeccably clad bodies not knowing they were "live". The button pusher is probably fired. Then again maybe they promoted the rascal.
> 
> JJK


----------



## hookbill

What time did this happen?


----------



## JJkizak

I don't remember exactly but I think it was between 9 and 10:00.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

We're they cussing and stuff? Details, my man, I want details.










I turned it on at 10:00 so I missed it.


----------



## HD MM

Leno and Conan returning to Late Night TV, sans writers.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22299420/


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12512288
> 
> 
> Interesting that they don't black out home games. I'll bet if WOIO gets word of that they would get p.o.'d as they do have local commercials during the game.



It is only the HD feeds that aren't blacked out this year. The past couple years they were erratic on blacking out in HD - lots of games the first half would be in the clear & the 2nd half blacked out, some were blacked out always, some never. There were times it was incredibly annoying when the Browns played a long game which was overruning the 4PM game that you wanted to watch & it was blacked out, although you couldn't actually watch it anywhere. I missed the first quarter of the Bengals-Colts game last year due to this. I definitely appreciate the no HD black out this year, whether its intentional or not.


The SD feeds are always blacked out correctly (although I seldom bother to watch the SD feeds unless I really care about the game).


Overall I find the local commercial argument odd as I NEVER watch commercials during Sunday Ticket. Heck I've got 3 to 8 other games I can watch now, why watch a commercial? Even if I care deeply about the game in question, I'll flip to another channel for a few minutes & then slide back. If there's no singular game I'm focussing on, I'll flip constantly or just watch the Red Zone Channel which flips for me...


----------



## Marshall Karp

Everything that I posted above is the details. No smoking guns, no one caught with their flies open or pants down.


Sorry.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12522696
> 
> 
> We're they cussing and stuff? Details, my man, I want details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I turned it on at 10:00 so I missed it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Marshall Karp* /forum/post/12523074
> 
> 
> Everything that I posted above is the details. No smoking guns, no one caught with their flies open or pants down.
> 
> 
> Sorry.



If I actually took the time to read your very detailed post I wouldn't have had to ask the question.


That's why I'm the village idiot.


----------



## JJkizak

The weather girl was untying and tying her kind of belt/blouse ensomble and tydying up the lacy cleavage covering. I was all eyes but there was nothing to see.

JJK


----------



## Smarty-pants

I think I saw a nipple







. (not really)


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12522195
> 
> 
> Question for Mr. PBS4549 -
> 
> 
> The NewsHour was not HD last night on 49-2. Looked like SD stretch. I'm curious to know why.
> 
> 
> It looks like WVIZ isn't bothering to carry this on any of their THREE subchannels.



Feel free to correct, but 49-2 is not an HD station, it is SD. Since 49-1 is only the 'national' HD feed, I would doubt you will ever see this in HD unless it is carried on the national feed.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12523116
> 
> 
> If I actually took the time to read your very detailed post I wouldn't have had to ask the question.
> 
> 
> That's why I'm the village idiot.



Aren't you the guy that yells at everyone for not searching the threads before they ask what kind of antenna to get for station Wxxx? Looks like you're human after all.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/12525704
> 
> 
> Aren't you the guy that yells at everyone for not searching the threads before they ask what kind of antenna to get for station Wxxx? Looks like you're human after all.



While it is true that I have in the past requested that people do a search, I don't think I ever yelled at them. I've come to realize that for many people it is much simpler to just ask a question. Since I really don't know anything about OTA I usually don't get involved with that at all. The other day however I did answer a question for someone and referred them to Jim West and I gave them a link to contact him as he is highly recommended by others in the forum.


I always enjoy when someone agrees with me so thank you for affirming the fact that I am the village idiot. I will probably say something really stupid again in the near future.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12525898
> 
> 
> While it is true that I have in the past requested that people do a search, I don't think I ever yelled at them. I've come to realize that for many people it is much simpler to just ask a question. Since I really don't know anything about OTA I usually don't get involved with that at all. The other day however I did answer a question for someone and referred them to Jim West and I gave them a link to contact him as he is highly recommended by others in the forum.
> 
> 
> I always enjoy when someone agrees with me so thank you for affirming the fact that I am the village idiot. I will probably say something really stupid again in the near future.



Village idiot? NO Way!!! Your vast knowledge is appreciated and often entertaining. BTW, it was on your recommendation that I went with VOnage at home.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12526818
> 
> 
> Man, you watch them? I usually turn them off at 11 after that fast-paced montage of upcoming stories. BTW, the 11pm show had a messed up beginning. Instead of showing the video of the anchors with the title on screen, there was a white screen with black titles on it. Darn, I didn't get to see Sharon's "beautiful" face!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL! I couldn't even type that with a straight face!



I rate FOX 8 as the top news for it's HD quality. I like WKYZ and WEWS for actual news content. But I watch 19's action news at 10:00 because I like a little humor before I go to bed.


----------



## JJkizak

The best HD quality live news OTA that I get is 3.1 (1080i), then 19.1 (1080i), then 8.1 (720P), then 43.1, ?, then PBS 49.1 (1080i), then 5.1 which is very soft and low contrast with stretcho vision. I don't know what 5.1 is up too but it ain't very good.

JJK


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/12525588
> 
> 
> Feel free to correct, but 49-2 is not an HD station, it is SD. Since 49-1 is only the 'national' HD feed, I would doubt you will ever see this in HD unless it is carried on the national feed.



I was supposing with the wonders of digital transmission that they could "flip the switch" to 1080i for an hour on 49-2, then flip it back to 480p for the SD programming. But that would probably a) cost millions of dollars and/or b) blow up everybody's TV tuner.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12527712
> 
> 
> The best HD quality live news OTA that I get is 3.1 (1080i), then 19.1 (1080i), then 8.1 (720P), then 43.1, ?, then PBS 49.1 (1080i), then 5.1 which is very soft and low contrast with stretcho vision. I don't know what 5.1 is up too but it ain't very good.
> 
> JJK



WEWS-DT newscasts suffers from a black-level problem. Every time there is a dark scene (especially the live outdoor scenes at night) the blacks posterize terribly. I can't believe they let this go out day after day without trying to fix it. It's as if the engineers think nothing is wrong or nobody is actually watching.


Last night there were two blaring examples: the 60th anniversary coverage where they showed old film of the early days at WEWS. Yes the film is old, but it really looked worse digitized. The second example was the counterfit Elmo story. The black background was a posterized mess.


It appears to me that this black level problem is caused by keying video on top of video. This affect is similar to when chroma key is used and a shadow is cast on the green screen causing a distortion of the "projected" video picture.


Does anybody else see this problem?


----------



## JJkizak

I see a very soft HD picture jumping back & forth between the correct aspect and strechovision. I don't watch it unless there is a football game which is always sharper than their live local news. 55 and 43 are pretty good but not as good as 3, 8, 19, and 49.

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12527712
> 
> 
> The best HD quality live news OTA that I get is 3.1 (1080i), then 19.1 (1080i), then 8.1 (720P), then 43.1, ?, then PBS 49.1 (1080i)



Unless I missed something, the folks at PBS 45/49 don't do news. Well, unless you count the "Newsnight Akron" Friday newsmagazine show, which is assuredly only in SD...


The other post is right...5 stopped "stretchovision" in their local news a while back. The downconverted HD to SD video from the field looks funny for some reason, but only on the SD end of the conversion.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12529685
> 
> 
> Unless I missed something, the folks at PBS 45/49 don't do news. Well, unless you count the "Newsnight Akron" Friday newsmagazine show, which is assuredly only in SD...
> 
> 
> The other post is right...5 stopped "stretchovision" in their local news a while back. The downconverted HD to SD video from the field looks funny for some reason, but only on the SD end of the conversion.



Maybe he's talking about The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, which was supposed to go HD on Monday? Can anyone who receives PBS-HD (49-1), please confirm that Newshour is indeed in HD now? I am patiently waiting until D* adds it to their local package as OTA isn't an option for me....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=10643


----------



## JJkizak

When I was speaking of PBS 49 I failed to mention that they do not have news but the general quality of their transmissions. I have no problem with sound on 19.1, but on 3.1 the sound is probably about 10 db low. I have not viewed 5.1 for a while but when I do the live news picture is soft with not enough contrast. By live shots I assume you mean off-site (no control room) which I do not consider worthy of High-Definition. Most of these shots have about 10 to 20 facial image lines trailing the face if you look hard enough. The traffic camera shots can be from terrible to excellent, but excellent rarely. I also hate 5.1 showing 2.35 x 1 movies in 16 x 9 zoom. I absolutely hate it when they do that, losing 50% of the picture. I avoid ABC like the plague. 43.1 is famous for that also.

JJK


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12532426
> 
> 
> Maybe he's talking about The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, which was supposed to go HD on Monday? Can anyone who receives PBS-HD (49-1), please confirm that Newshour is indeed in HD now? I am patiently waiting until D* adds it to their local package as OTA isn't an option for me....
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=10643



HD MM, if you look back up a few posts, you'll see me mentioning that 49-2 did NOT have The Newshour in HD. It is SD. The national loop (HD) on 49-1 does not have it at all.


The current Newshour discussion thread is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=954137


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12533010
> 
> 
> HD MM, if you look back up a few posts, you'll see me mentioning that 49-2 did NOT have The Newshour in HD. It is SD. The national loop (HD) on 49-1 does not have it at all.
> 
> 
> The current Newshour discussion thread is here:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=954137



What about WVIZ 25.1?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12533220
> 
> 
> What about WVIZ 25.1?



They don't have the Newshour scheduled on any of their three digital subchannels. Only on the analog channel. Which brings up the point why in the world aren't they simulcasting their analog programming on one of their digital subs yet? So much for their digital transition, eh ?

http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index..._time=6%3A00pm


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12533441
> 
> 
> They don't have the Newshour scheduled on any of their three digital subchannels. Only on the analog channel. Which brings up the point why in the world aren't they simulcasting their analog programming on one of their digital subs yet? So much for their digital transition, eh ?
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index..._time=6%3A00pm



Wow. I wasn't aware of this. PBS clearly has issues.....


----------



## toby10

I'm switching some AVR inputs around and testing/comparing some different DD & PL settings with different feeds (OTA & cable).


Can anyone recommend a couple of the better OTA 5.1 network prime-time shows with exceptional (or the least botched/bastardized) 5.1 output?


Many thanks


----------



## beaver2672

Is anyone else on Armstrong in Medina? Can you believe the amount of HD they have added in the past month! TLC, History, TDC, AMC, CNN, A&E, Outdoor, Animal Planet, Science with Food, HGTV, SciFi, USA and Speed on the way! These guys are definitely keeping my business! I also heard there's a ZOOM 500 Speed update coming soon too..... 8Mb/1Mb. Anyone hear anything else?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/12534614
> 
> 
> Is anyone else on Armstrong in Medina? Can you believe the amount of HD they have added in the past month! TLC, History, TDC, AMC, CNN, A&E, Outdoor, Animal Planet, Science with Food, HGTV, SciFi, USA and Speed on the way! These guys are definitely keeping my business! I also heard there's a ZOOM 500 Speed update coming soon too..... 8Mb/1Mb. Anyone hear anything else?



you seem to be in the wrong forum, this is the TIme warner in cleveland hasnt added any hd in 2 years forum...we dont want to hear about your wonderful HD







actually that is awesome that they have added those, I have dish network and they have quite a few HD channels but for some reason (dish launches delayed I believe) have totally stopped adding HD..I am hoping Digiblurs uplink report at satguys brings me better news, but again congrats thats a pretty darn good lineup!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/12534614
> 
> 
> Is anyone else on Armstrong in Medina? Can you believe the amount of HD they have added in the past month! TLC, History, TDC, AMC, CNN, A&E, Outdoor, Animal Planet, Science with Food, HGTV, SciFi, USA and Speed on the way! These guys are definitely keeping my business! I also heard there's a ZOOM 500 Speed update coming soon too..... 8Mb/1Mb. Anyone hear anything else?



Bragger.


----------



## Tom in OH

All of a sudden(yesterday) I'm able to receive 3-1 and 3-2 on the DirecTv HR20. Anyone else with an HR20-100 having success?


----------



## jtscherne

I'm not old enough to spend the winters in Florida! (or wealthy enough!)


As has been pointed out, DirecTV doesn't black out the HD broadcasts, which is particularly nice this time of the year with all the weather bulletins.


On another subject:


DirecTV has reached an agreement to carry the PBS HD channels in the areas they offer local HD service. This is GREAT news for those of us unwilling to deal with TWC.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....872&highlight= 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12507184
> 
> 
> I might be wrong, but I think he spends a chunk of the winter in Florida.
> 
> 
> This game reminds me of a Browns game up here when I was visiting Florida, and the snow was just as bad. I listened to the Browns call via satellite radio, and the weather was in the 70's!


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12528038
> 
> 
> WEWS-DT newscasts suffers from a black-level problem. Every time there is a dark scene (especially the live outdoor scenes at night) the blacks posterize terribly. I can't believe they let this go out day after day without trying to fix it. It's as if the engineers think nothing is wrong or nobody is actually watching.
> 
> 
> Last night there were two blaring examples: the 60th anniversary coverage where they showed old film of the early days at WEWS. Yes the film is old, but it really looked worse digitized. The second example was the counterfit Elmo story. The black background was a posterized mess.
> 
> 
> It appears to me that this black level problem is caused by keying video on top of video. This affect is similar to when chroma key is used and a shadow is cast on the green screen causing a distortion of the "projected" video picture.
> 
> 
> Does anybody else see this problem?



Michael, what do you mean by posterized? It isn't in the dictionary.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/12537957
> 
> 
> Michael, what do you mean by posterized? It isn't in the dictionary.



Posterized;adj When you put something on a poster it is posterized.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/12537957
> 
> 
> Michael, what do you mean by posterized? It isn't in the dictionary.



Maybe I'm not spelling it correctly, however I have heard that term used to describe the digital artifacts I see in the black level on WEWS news.


Instead of a smooth gradual black area, I see large blocks. It's as if the background disappears into various gray blocks. I wish I had a way to take a picture of what I see and post it here. It's quite annoying and has only been seen on Newschannel 5 ever since I first was able to watch the ATSC signal (in other words it was present when they were still SD as well as now in HD). No other channel has this problem on either OTA or satellite. I'm watching via an E* 921 in 480i via S Video to a 27" Sony Trinitron. ABC Network programming looks pristine, it's only the news that looks bad.


----------



## jtscherne

You've got the term right. I found a number of references using Google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posterization 


This one refers to photos, but the idea seems to be the same for any digital method.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12539144
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm not spelling it correctly, however I have heard that term used to describe the digital artifacts I see in the black level on WEWS news.
> 
> 
> Instead of a smooth gradual black area, I see large blocks. It's as if the background disappears into various gray blocks. I wish I had a way to take a picture of what I see and post it here. It's quite annoying and has only been seen on Newschannel 5 ever since I first was able to watch the ATSC signal (in other words it was present when they were still SD as well as now in HD). No other channel has this problem on either OTA or satellite. I'm watching via an E* 921 in 480i via S Video to a 27" Sony Trinitron. ABC Network programming looks pristine, it's only the news that looks bad.


----------



## Inundated

So, who gets the PBS "NewsHour" in HD? Anyone? Anywhere in America?










It's nice to see the satellite folks sending HD PBS down the line, but at least locally, both affiliates just pass through the national PBS HD feed.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not old enough to spend the winters in Florida! (or wealthy enough!)



Heh. I do believe at least one of our regulars here spends time in Florida in the winter.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12535089
> 
> 
> you seem to be in the wrong forum, this is the TIme warner in cleveland hasnt added any hd in 2 years forum...



Whazzat? They've added TNT-HD, TBS-HD and others in recent times. Have another ginko-biloba, Stuart. It's good for the memory.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12540098
> 
> 
> Whazzat? They've added TNT-HD, TBS-HD and others in recent times. Have another ginko-biloba, Stuart. It's good for the memory.



Ill give you TNT HD but TBS HD, I meant real HD channels that have HD programming







..over at satguys we find it funny but when a channel gets uplinked people always complain where is the HD programming, we as a society are NEVER satisfied and always want more.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12541069
> 
> 
> Ill give you TNT HD but TBS HD, I meant real HD channels that have HD programming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..over at satguys we find it funny but when a channel gets uplinked people always complain where is the HD programming, we as a society are NEVER satisfied and always want more.



Give us a break!! When they say a HD channel is launching, that means there should be at leas SOME HD on it!!! TBS's Stretchovision Horror Channel hasn't shown any HD since the MLB in October. All of the movies and some of the sitcoms COULD be shown in REAL HD.


As for us here in NE Ohio, I would *LOVE* to see Time Warner drop TBS-HD from our line up. It's wasted bandwidth. Give us some real HD instead. I'd rather see WBNX-HD. According to WBNX , the CW's prime time is 78% HD. Plus, I'd like to see WVIZ HD dumped and replaced with National Geographic HD or History or Discovery HD.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12537629
> 
> 
> I'm not old enough to spend the winters in Florida! (or wealthy enough!)
> 
> 
> As has been pointed out, DirecTV doesn't black out the HD broadcasts, which is particularly nice this time of the year with all the weather bulletins.
> 
> 
> On another subject:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> DirecTV has reached an agreement to carry the PBS HD channels in the areas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they offer local HD service. This is GREAT news for those of us unwilling to deal with TWC.
> 
> http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....872&highlight=
Click to expand...


jtscherne:

May I ask where you got this info???


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/12542426
> 
> 
> jtscherne:
> 
> May I ask where you got this info???


 www.dbstalk.com


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12541412
> 
> 
> . Plus, I'd like to see WVIZ HD dumped and replaced with National Geographic HD or History or Discovery HD.



We do get Discovery HD. At least I do on my TW HD.










You can't dump TBS. We need that for baseball playoffs.


I would like to see the CW in HD. I love Smallville and Supernatural (some say teeny bopper, but hey I like it!). I'm also a big fan of FX original programming. That would be super in HD. I feel FX has some of the best original dramas, surpassing some of those that are on HBO.


I would also like to see USA and SCI-FI added in HD so we could watch their original shows as well.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12539866
> 
> 
> So, who gets the PBS "NewsHour" in HD? Anyone? Anywhere in America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's nice to see the satellite folks sending HD PBS down the line, but at least locally, both affiliates just pass through the national PBS HD feed.
> 
> 
> Heh. I do believe at least one of our regulars here spends time in Florida in the winter.



NewsHour is a national news program, so I am really struggling to find out why it would not be included in either WVIZ(25.1), WNEO(45.1) or WEAO(49.1)'s digital HD lineup!? And while I am excited about D*'s announcement to carry PBS-HD in the near future, it appears as long as the local affiliates don't bump the current analog transmission of Jim Lehrer to their digital lineup, we will still not be getting it in HD! Oh, well. At least we can all enjoy another "Christmas with the Mormon Choir" in HD!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12542689
> 
> 
> NewsHour is a national news program, so I am really struggling to find out why it would not be included in either WVIZ(25.1), WNEO(45.1) or WEAO(49.1)'s digital HD lineup!? And while I am excited about D*'s announcement to carry PBS-HD in the near future, it appears as long as the local affiliates don't bump the current analog transmission of Jim Lehrer to their digital lineup, we will still not be getting it in HD! Oh, well. At least we can all enjoy another "Christmas with the Mormon Choir" in HD!



I'm sure your aware that the programming on WVIZHD does not mirror the programming on WVIZ. It's like watching seperate channels.


Discovery does the same thing.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12542721
> 
> 
> I'm sure your aware that the programming on WVIZHD does not mirror the programming on WVIZ. It's like watching seperate channels.
> 
> 
> Discovery does the same thing.



Yes I am aware of this. However my point was that since NewsHour is now being actively produced in HD, it would make much sense to bump it to the HD channel.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12539866
> 
> 
> So, who gets the PBS "NewsHour" in HD? Anyone? Anywhere in America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's nice to see the satellite folks sending HD PBS down the line, but at least locally, both affiliates just pass through the national PBS HD feed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh. I do believe at least one of our regulars here spends time in Florida in the winter.



I read somewhere that PBS will begin to add primetime HD one evening at a time to the PBS HD channel. Eventually (by this time next year) they will be feeding exactly as the commercial networks and the PBS HD channel will become the "main" channel. It is a matter of building out infrastructure to do so... and public broadcasting doesn't have the deep pockets that the commercial stations have. As far as the NewsHour... it makes no sense to me why it wouldn't be integrated into the HD channel.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *As for us here in NE Ohio, I would [B* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOVE[/b] to see Time Warner drop TBS-HD from our line up. It's wasted bandwidth. Give us some real HD instead. I'd rather see WBNX-HD. According to WBNX , the CW's prime time is 78% HD. Plus, I'd like to see WVIZ HD dumped and replaced with National Geographic HD or History or Discovery HD.



TW in the Mentor area dropped the TBSHD channel a few weeks after the baseball playoffs were through. I'm not sure exactly when it happend but I noticed it gone when I returned form a week in Florida early November. Yes I do go to Floriday occasionally. I'd love to spend the month of January or February there someday.

Ray


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12542598
> 
> 
> We do get Discovery HD. At least I do on my TW HD.



I think you are getting Discovery HD Theater channel on TW. There is a new Discovery Channel HD(DirecTV carries it) that is the mirror of the non-HD Discovery Channel. Discovery HD Theater has completely different programming from the Discovery Channel.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12541412
> 
> 
> Give us a break!! When they say a HD channel is launching, that means there should be at leas SOME HD on it!!! TBS's Stretchovision Horror Channel hasn't shown any HD since the MLB in October. All of the movies and some of the sitcoms COULD be shown in REAL HD.
> 
> 
> As for us here in NE Ohio, I would *LOVE* to see Time Warner drop TBS-HD from our line up. It's wasted bandwidth. Give us some real HD instead. I'd rather see WBNX-HD. According to WBNX , the CW's prime time is 78% HD. Plus, I'd like to see WVIZ HD dumped and replaced with National Geographic HD or History or Discovery HD.



Hey I hope you dont think I was saying TBS hd was a real HD channel, because to me it isnt...I agree with you 100%...also I wish TWCNEO would get their butts in gear, Time warner as a whole actually. Let me point this out to you( just talking here) Agressive marketing is the name of the game today. Look at Directv and the success it had, two years ago they said we are going to launch 3 satellites and it will carry 1500 HD locals, and whatever 150 insane amount of HD nationals. Everyone laughed, but they kept it up, had commercials of tv's watching the satellite launches saying it was going to change the way you watch tv. Well here we are two years later and guess what...its a success, Directv is the HD leader, actually Scott G. wrote a article that said they were the HD leader when they made the announcement as everyone was "keeping up" with Directv at that point, even though Directv had only 10 HD stations I believe. But they had a plan, FIos has a plan and will talk about it, BUT Where is Time warner or Dish in all of this? nowhere...TIme warner dosent even have markets together, I realize they are all different systems, but arent you pissed that San antonio has all these stations and here you sit with navagaitor software that is buggy as hell (well Hookbill does have the spokesman deal worked with tivo so he is happy there







) and you have nothing added, and no one talking about the future but to say SDV will bring more HD and regualer channels (to certain markets, not all markets are the same). and I know not everyone cares about it, but Time warner dosent even talk to NFL network or Big Ten network, just makes commercial calling them greedy! But dont worry I am in the same boat as you DIsh has not said one word about the future, well okay I lied they did say they are launching two satellites that will hold 200 HD channels and 1500 Local HD channels, but since then we havent heard a peep (that was a year ago!). All we hear is They are being sold, or plans are changing, even their Ceo I believe dosent know whats going on! I say all that to say this, these companies need to get their head in the game, because they are falling behind, Time warner is down, Dish is down. Both companies have great products, its just too bad they cant organize them or "sell" them to the public.


Also I do have to say this, I realize that HD is still somewhat small percantage of owners, and to dish its probably maybe 10-15% (could be wrong) and to Time warner it might be higher (30-40%? does anyone know) but HD is becoming main stream and its time to captialize now and put your name in the Hat, because it might be too late 2 years from now if you are just then adding HD channels, or figuiring out cable cards, or getting satellite launced as your competitors are kicking dirt in your face with their commercials, and there are alot more choices for Tv Money then their was 5-10 years ago (Directv, DIsh, Time warner, ATT, even some IPTV services, and FTA)


Also I have been following what you have been writing in the navaigator section with your updates, as I am very interested in hearing how its developing, please dont stop updating that thread with your thoughts and experiences I do enjoy it!


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/12542942
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that PBS will begin to add primetime HD one evening at a time to the PBS HD channel. Eventually (by this time next year) they will be feeding exactly as the commercial networks and the PBS HD channel will become the "main" channel. It is a matter of building out infrastructure to do so... and public broadcasting doesn't have the deep pockets that the commercial stations have. As far as the NewsHour... it makes no sense to me why it wouldn't be integrated into the HD channel.



From Broadcast Engineering website:

The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer aired in HD for the first time Monday, signaling a major step for WETA and PBS and the on-time completion of a key phase in the comprehensive HD upgrade of the WETA production center.


The new HD facility at WETA, located just outside Washington, D.C., was designed, planned and integrated by Communications Engineering (CEI) of Newington, VA.


The project, featuring new HD control rooms and edit suites, began in the second quarter of this year with a target date of Dec. 17 for the first live HD broadcast of NewsHour. NewsHour, seen five nights a week on more than 315 PBS stations across the country, is the first live, regularly scheduled PBS program to be broadcast in HD.


Careful planning and coordination with WETA allowed CEI to complete this phase of an extensive upgrade for the WETA production center, as well as conduct testing and training, in time for the first scheduled live broadcast.


In addition to the regular evening broadcast, the NewsHour staff and PBS will produce about 24 hours of live, HD primetime coverage of the 2008 Democratic National Convention from Denver (Aug. 25-28) and the Republican National Convention from St. Paul, MN (Sept. 1-4).


The state-of-the-art production facility includes a new HD video control room, featuring a Sony MVS8000A switcher; a new digital audio control room featuring an SSL C100 5.1 surround-sound console; six new Sony HDC1000LW HD studio cameras; Fujinon lenses; three upgraded Avid HD edit suites; an expanded Avid Unity storage system; four Sony XDCAM HD field camera systems; two Sony XDCAM HD studio decks; expanded Thomson Grass Valley HD routers; a BARCO multiple rear-projection display wall; and QC/QA workstations


----------



## nickdawg

Today I noticed that the former CSPAN2 analog channel(channel 70 in Akron) no longer shows the "CSPAN has moved" message. The channel still comes in on both of my Passport boxes and the screen just shows color bars. Also channels 17, 34, 70 and 96 have color bars on the screen. Four analog channels eliminated, sounds like enough bandwidth to add another HD channel or two. Maybe a certain local HD station? Then Time Warner could say they carry all the local HD channels.


As for TBS, it should be a part-time channel, like FSN Ohio, that only broadcasts when a sports event is on in HD. Speaking of "split channels", the past could be the future(for now). Time Warner could have a few split channels for HD. Show important networks at night like USA and FX and show otehr networks on the day.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/12544802
> 
> 
> I think you are getting Discovery HD Theater channel on TW. There is a new Discovery Channel HD(DirecTV carries it) that is the mirror of the non-HD Discovery Channel. Discovery HD Theater has completely different programming from the Discovery Channel.



Oh. So that's why they are completely different.


But they do show some of the Discovery Channels programs don't they? I could have sworn I've seen some familiar titles.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12547795
> 
> 
> Oh. So that's why they are completely different.
> 
> 
> But they do show some of the Discovery Channels programs don't they? I could have sworn I've seen some familiar titles.



They do run some of the Discovery Channel shows on Disc HD Theater, but I haven't decided if there's a pattern to it or if they just decide to drop an episode of American Chopper in when they feel like it...


Sure would be nice to get Discovery HD on TWC - would be fun to see Mike Rowe covered in poo in glorious HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12551751
> 
> 
> They do run some of the Discovery Channel shows on Disc HD Theater, but I haven't decided if there's a pattern to it or if they just decide to drop an episode of American Chopper in when they feel like it...
> 
> 
> Sure would be nice to get Discovery HD on TWC - would be fun to see Mike Rowe covered in poo in glorious HD.



Yeah, Mike Rowe!! That always irritates me when I see on Discovery 54 [Also Available in HD] on the bottom of the screen. I usually announce out loud, "NOT ON TIME WARNER CABLE!!" "POWER OF YOU, MY A--!"


Also, an update on CSPAN2 analog, channel 70 is now completely gone. I can only hope something is coming


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12535089
> 
> 
> you seem to be in the wrong forum, this is the TIme warner in cleveland hasnt added any hd in 2 years forum...we dont want to hear about your wonderful HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually that is awesome that they have added those, I have dish network and they have quite a few HD channels but for some reason (dish launches delayed I believe) have totally stopped adding HD..I am hoping Digiblurs uplink report at satguys brings me better news, but again congrats thats a pretty darn good lineup!



I hate to break the news to TW folks, but Cox Cleveland has gone on an HD channel adding spree.


With smaller providers like Armstrong and Cox adding more HD channels, I wonder if it's a response to DirecTV's recent HD additions. I was also discussing with my friends who are DirecTV subscribers how much more bandwidth would be available if they didn't have to "double up" on HD/SD channels.


Cox Cleveland HDLineup as of 12/21:


PBS

WKYC

WOIO

WEWS

WUAB

WJW

TNT

Universal

NFL Network

FSN

MTV

TBS

MOJO (INHD)

History

A&E

ESPN 1&2

National Geographic

Discovery HD Theater

TV Food Network

Home & Garden HGTV

Sports Time Ohio

HBO

Cinemax

Showtime

Starz


and an HD OnDemand channel


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12551890
> 
> 
> Also, an update on CSPAN2 analog, channel 70 is now completely gone. I can only hope something is coming



Well, the moved CSPAN2 to channel 186. They are telling analog people, you want it? Pay for a digital box. Don't expect them to replace anything they move from analog to digital. Expect more of it. Analog takes more bandwith and they are probably trying to reduce bandwith to compete by adding more HD--eventually--well, hopefully.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/12552023
> 
> 
> I hate to break the news to TW folks, but Cox Cleveland has gone on an HD channel adding spree.
> 
> 
> With smaller providers like Armstrong and Cox adding more HD channels, I wonder if it's a response to DirecTV's recent HD additions. I was also discussing with my friends who are DirecTV subscribers how much more bandwidth would be available if they didn't have to "double up" on HD/SD channels.
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland HDLineup as of 12/21:
> 
> 
> PBS
> 
> WKYC
> 
> WOIO
> 
> WEWS
> 
> WUAB
> 
> WJW
> 
> TNT
> 
> Universal
> 
> NFL Network
> 
> FSN
> 
> MTV
> 
> TBS
> 
> MOJO (INHD)
> 
> History
> 
> A&E
> 
> ESPN 1&2
> 
> National Geographic
> 
> Discovery HD Theater
> 
> TV Food Network
> 
> Home & Garden HGTV
> 
> Sports Time Ohio
> 
> HBO
> 
> Cinemax
> 
> Showtime
> 
> Starz
> 
> 
> and an HD OnDemand channel



When you make a long list like that it really makes it worst then it appears. I'm not defending TW but here's what they really are offering that TW doesn't have:


FSN

MTV

NFL Network

History

A&E

National Geographic

Home & Garden HGTV

TV Food Network


Out of all of these channels there are 2 I might look at. A&E for 48 Hours, but I'll bet that isn't filmed in HD. And History channel for WW2 stuff, which probably won't be in HD either. YMMV










I won't feel bad unless I see USA, FX, or SCI FI is added.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually, FSN Ohio has nothing in HD other than the Cavs, so you already get that too.


National Geographic has a lot of great HD content, but History and A&E, have long stretches of SD programming at this point.


Also, I'm not sure what MTV they added, but the regular MTV is available in HD, but with no HD programming. However, there's a separate HD channel (MHD) that features content from MTV, VH1, and CMT. It is pretty much all HD and features some good concerts.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12553013
> 
> 
> When you make a long list like that it really makes it worst then it appears. I'm not defending TW but here's what they really are offering that TW doesn't have:
> 
> 
> FSN
> 
> MTV
> 
> NFL Network
> 
> History
> 
> A&E
> 
> National Geographic
> 
> Home & Garden HGTV
> 
> TV Food Network
> 
> 
> Out of all of these channels there are 2 I might look at. A&E for 48 Hours, but I'll bet that isn't filmed in HD. And History channel for WW2 stuff, which probably won't be in HD either. YMMV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't feel bad unless I see USA, FX, or SCI FI is added.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12553013
> 
> 
> ......Home & Garden HGTV
> 
> TV Food Network
> 
> 
> Out of all of these channels there are 2 I might look at. A&E for 48 Hours, but I'll bet that isn't filmed in HD. And History channel for WW2 stuff, which probably won't be in HD either. YMMV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't feel bad unless I see USA, FX, or SCI FI is added.



You don't know what you are missing! Tomatoes and zucchini in HD is simply MIND BLOWING!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12553618
> 
> 
> You don't know what you are missing! Tomatoes and zucchini in HD is simply MIND BLOWING!



ummmm...I've seen them at this place called the grocery store. Even picked them up and looked at them. Your telling me it's better in HD?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12553708
> 
> 
> ummmm...I've seen them at this place called the grocery store. Even picked them up and looked at them. Your telling me it's better in HD?



Shame on you! Of course Tomatoes are better in HD! Specifically Giada and Tomatoes!


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12553406
> 
> 
> Actually, FSN Ohio has nothing in HD other than the Cavs, so you already get that too.
> 
> 
> National Geographic has a lot of great HD content, but History and A&E, have long stretches of SD programming at this point.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what MTV they added, but the regular MTV is available in HD, but with no HD programming. However, there's a separate HD channel (MHD) that features content from MTV, VH1, and CMT. It is pretty much all HD and features some good concerts.



FSN and STO are a waste of bandwidth in HD, as is TBS.


They should just go to a combined specials channel, that when a game is on, they pop up on that HD channel.


As far as MTV goes, Cox offers the MHD channel with the MTV networks. Their content is limited, with many concerts being repeated.


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12553013
> 
> 
> When you make a long list like that it really makes it worst then it appears. I'm not defending TW but here's what they really are offering that TW doesn't have:
> 
> 
> FSN
> 
> MTV
> 
> NFL Network
> 
> History
> 
> A&E
> 
> National Geographic
> 
> Home & Garden HGTV
> 
> TV Food Network
> 
> 
> Out of all of these channels there are 2 I might look at. A&E for 48 Hours, but I'll bet that isn't filmed in HD. And History channel for WW2 stuff, which probably won't be in HD either. YMMV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't feel bad unless I see USA, FX, or SCI FI is added.




I'm not defending Cox or bashing TW. Just giving folks an idea of what other providers are doing. Really aside from moving, there's very little to no choice in cable.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12554087
> 
> 
> Shame on you! Of course Tomatoes are better in HD! Specifically Giada and Tomatoes!



HAHAHAHA!


----------



## JJkizak

I wonder what kind of rules they have regarding the tomato "pool"? And I can't seem to find the zucchinni.

JJK


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12384182
> 
> 
> ...it's not that big of a deal to have disk utilities set to automatically run after a specified period of activity, including defrag and recovery/remapping around bad clusters on a disk.
> 
> 
> This could support (although not entirely prove) the hypothesis that the skips are a disk read issue, and can be self-correcting. Moving 5-10GB files on a half-full 160GB HDD is a time-intensive task, and could likely take several evenings to resolve.
> 
> 
> Or...it could all be false hope, the 8300HDC and its software are terrible, and I'll soon be posting about the dropouts returning.



Just wanted to post a quick follow-up regarding the audio drop-outs on the 8300HDC. I've kept my used space below 65%, and have had less than a handful of audio drop-outs since 12/3 - even when playing back recordings that were captured simultaneously. In all other aspects, it's easy to use and does what I expect it to do.


Now I see what all the fuss is about with DVRs. It's great having HD movies and programs on-hand whenever I'm ready, not to mention controlling my own slo-mo instant replays while watching a game.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12553406
> 
> 
> Actually, FSN Ohio has nothing in HD other than the Cavs, so you already get that too.



So far from what I have seen, FSN has the Cavs, Blue Jackets, and a number of College Football games in HD.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/12554212
> 
> 
> FSN and STO are a waste of bandwidth in HD, as is TBS.
> 
> 
> They should just go to a combined specials channel, that when a game is on, they pop up on that HD channel.
> 
> 
> As far as MTV goes, Cox offers the MHD channel with the MTV networks. Their content is limited, with many concerts being repeated.



STO uses no bandwidth on Cox when there is no HD programming, the channel is off.


TBS certainly wasn't a waste of bandwidth during the playoffs, and it isn't Cox' fault they can't show anything in HD.


Plus if there was a combined specials channel, you would have people complaining when there was a conflict between the Indians and Cavs.


It works pretty well the way it is now.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12539866
> 
> 
> So, who gets the PBS "NewsHour" in HD? Anyone? Anywhere in America?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's nice to see the satellite folks sending HD PBS down the line, but at least locally, both affiliates just pass through the national PBS HD feed.



Ahm. The "HD PBS" feed on satellite is the exact same feed that WNEO/WEAO & WVIZ carry on their HD -1 channel. So when Newshour goes HD there is only one place in PBS land where that feed will be sent: PBS HD!


Weather you get it from WNEO DT-1, WVIZ DT-1, or DirecTV, it will be there at the same time on all 3 in HD. the only "local content" on the HD feeds of WNEO & WVIZ are the "bugs" ID'ing the station. BTW it was the lack of this bug that kept PBS HD off WNEO/WEAO for all that time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12552961
> 
> 
> Well, the moved CSPAN2 to channel 186. They are telling analog people, you want it? Pay for a digital box. Don't expect them to replace anything they move from analog to digital. Expect more of it. Analog takes more bandwith and they are probably trying to reduce bandwith to compete by adding more HD--eventually--well, hopefully.



That's what I was hoping. With ESPN Classic and CSPAN2 moved to digital, that should be some bandwidth freed up and room for more HD. I'm still hoping WBNX, but I doubt it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12557658
> 
> 
> That's what I was hoping. With ESPN Classic and CSPAN2 moved to digital, that should be some bandwidth freed up and room for more HD. I'm still hoping WBNX, but I doubt it.



TW is nortoriously tight but there is really no valid explanation as to why they haven't delivered this channel to us. A huge thumbs down to TW for that!


----------



## GregF2

I agree TW is getting stomped by everyone around the Cleveland area, even these smaller cable providers. For such a big company, they certainly are disappointing! They need more competition in existing markets from other cable companies and that would end their strong hold on the cable market.


----------



## drummersteve

Hey guys, newb to the HD world here, and I'm in the market for an HDTV coupled with either Cox Cable +HD content or the two Dish providers +HD content. From what I could gather, Dish Network seems my best bet. Nice selection of HD channels plus it's a hair cheaper than DirecTV and a lot cheaper than what Cox offers in the HD realm. What I'm asking is if anyone has ANY of these 3 services from the Cleveland area (Parma to be exact)? (Cox HD/ Dish HD/ or DirecTV HD).

1) Are you happy with the quality of feed/HD channels? Both audio and video? I'm not too worried about actual HD channel selection, thats more personal preference. How about SD content?

2)For you satellite owners, do you experience dropouts in rain/thunder/snow?? How long?

3) For both users, is HD content variable? Meaning that if a provider claims it has channels x and y in HD, are they ALWAYS shown in HD or to they switch back and forth between feeds (say only HD for primetime shows?). Is this different in satellite vs. cable providers?

4) Whats the deal with local channels + satellite? Are they always in HD or only during primetime telecasts? Does the satellite provider have to install an extra satellite to capture the locals?


Kind of a lot of questions I know, but I'm new to the HD realm and its been a complete hassle trying to talk to the providers directly about this, and if I ask at smaller electronic stores they seem to be bias towards cable over satellite.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Channel 5's Joe Pagonakis did a story on Time Warner today about a elderly lady not getting a rebate from Time Warner. Anyways, Joe said they are a better Business Burea member, yet they've gotten over 300 complaints over the last three years and half of which have been this year alone.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12559584
> 
> 
> I agree TW is getting stomped by everyone around the Cleveland area, even these smaller cable providers. For such a big company, they certainly are disappointing! They need more competition in existing markets from other cable companies and that would end their strong hold on the cable market.



Again I have to say first I am not a great fan of any cable company, but I do believe that the challenge TW is dealing with in our area is huge. First they got both Adelphia and Comcast and they already had some of their own cable in the area. Now I have no idea what Comcast was like but I think it is safe to say that the channel lineups were all uniform. Adelphia on the other hand took all their bought up small mom and pop cable companies and continued to allow them to have the same channels they had previously. So TW's challenge is to figure out a way to create a local channel line up that covers TW NEO. This is not easy to do and one of the reasons why are the different shops that techs and management are coming from. Here's an example: When TW first took over I was serviced by Macedonia even though I was in the Cleveland Suburb area. Those techs were highly trained, motivated, and I know from my experience with the S3 that their Supervisor was anxious to see an install on my S3.


A couple of weeks later and I get switched to the Concord base. I was warned by the supervisor of the Macedonia office that these guys think differently then his crew and he was absolutely right. It appears that Adelphia allowed all these shops to continue with the same previous management and did nothing to create a "standard of service."


So not only do they have to deal with reorganizing the lineup, they have to somehow get all these people, and don't forget the Comcast group, all on the same page and eventually get the channels switched over to one line up.


I know one tech told me it was going to be done in June, however he didn't tell me what year. I assumed he met 2007 but obviously either he was dead wrong (likely) or my assumption was incorrect.


So as it stands right now those of us with TW are not going to get the same service as we see happening around us. If I hadn't spent so much money on my S3 and had a clean line of sight to the South, I would have picked D* two years ago.


Things will get better, eventually. But it will take time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> Hey guys, newb to the HD world here, and I'm in the market for an HDTV coupled with either Cox Cable +HD content or the two Dish providers +HD content. From what I could gather, Dish Network seems my best bet. Nice selection of HD channels plus it's a hair cheaper than DirecTV and a lot cheaper than what Cox offers in the HD realm. What I'm asking is if anyone has ANY of these 3 services from the Cleveland area (Parma to be exact)? (Cox HD/ Dish HD/ or DirecTV HD).
> 
> 1) Are you happy with the quality of feed/HD channels? Both audio and video? I'm not too worried about actual HD channel selection, thats more personal preference. How about SD content?
> 
> 2)For you satellite owners, do you experience dropouts in rain/thunder/snow?? How long?
> 
> 3) For both users, is HD content variable? Meaning that if a provider claims it has channels x and y in HD, are they ALWAYS shown in HD or to they switch back and forth between feeds (say only HD for primetime shows?). Is this different in satellite vs. cable providers?
> 
> 
> 4) Whats the deal with local channels + satellite? Are they always in HD or only during primetime telecasts? Does the satellite provider have to install an extra satellite to capture the locals?
> 
> 
> Kind of a lot of questions I know, but I'm new to the HD realm and its been a complete hassle trying to talk to the providers directly about this, and if I ask at smaller electronic stores they seem to be bias towards cable over satellite.



I'd go with D*. They have a better DVR then Cox and more HD stations.


Generally most local network prime time shows are in HD and Dolby 5.1. Matter of fact D* and Cox both have a great deal of HD channels but many actually do not have a great deal of HD content.


As a previous satellite user (D*) Snow and rain fall are not that big of a deal.


D* provides everything in digital so you always have a great picture. I don't know how much Cox delivers but they may still have some analog channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> Hey guys, newb to the HD world here, and I'm in the market for an HDTV coupled with either Cox Cable +HD content or the two Dish providers +HD content. From what I could gather, Dish Network seems my best bet. Nice selection of HD channels plus it's a hair cheaper than DirecTV and a lot cheaper than what Cox offers in the HD realm. What I'm asking is if anyone has ANY of these 3 services from the Cleveland area (Parma to be exact)? (Cox HD/ Dish HD/ or DirecTV HD).
> 
> 1) Are you happy with the quality of feed/HD channels? Both audio and video? I'm not too worried about actual HD channel selection, thats more personal preference. How about SD content?
> 
> 2)For you satellite owners, do you experience dropouts in rain/thunder/snow?? How long?
> 
> 3) For both users, is HD content variable? Meaning that if a provider claims it has channels x and y in HD, are they ALWAYS shown in HD or to they switch back and forth between feeds (say only HD for primetime shows?). Is this different in satellite vs. cable providers?
> 
> 4) Whats the deal with local channels + satellite? Are they always in HD or only during primetime telecasts? Does the satellite provider have to install an extra satellite to capture the locals?
> 
> 
> Kind of a lot of questions I know, but I'm new to the HD realm and its been a complete hassle trying to talk to the providers directly about this, and if I ask at smaller electronic stores they seem to be bias towards cable over satellite.



I would check out COX. Since it's not Time Warner, I'd check out what kind of DVR they have. If they have the 8300HD with Passport, that's good. The 8300HD with Passport software is the BEST DVR on the market(IMO). Also see what kind of line up they have.

-Do they have most or all local HD channels? Satellite does not, but since they have more capacity, they may soon.

-How many national HD channels does COX have? D* has about 75.


I wouldn't go with Dish. I don't know much about them, but they seem like D*'s cheaper, wimpy brother. I have heard Dish users that love it, but I'm not into new things.


I've had D* a few years back and it can be tricky in the snow. During a snow storm, my TV was pixelating continuously. It also goes out in the rain and once when it was windy. However, I've also heard that my problems could be because the dish wasn't positioned right. I've heard some D* users that don't have it go out at all. That's kinda scared me away from satellite.


I would try cable first. Since I assume you already have cable, an upgrade to HD cable is free. Try it out first. If you're not happy, consider D*. The one downside of satellite is the contract, you're stuck for a year. In my experience, I couldn't wait for the year to be up!


----------



## drummersteve

Thanks for the replies...I had been leaning toward going with one of the dishes over Cox anyway, but a recent trip to one of the small electronics stores had me question some of my research. I had been worried with rain and snow, but I got conflicting reports. One person I know has Dish and loves it, never has reception problems, and another with D* says he gets rainouts here and there. I also heard that it could be possible that D* puts more compression on their channels vs. others? Maybe I didn't read it right but thats what other have been hinting at. D* and BB have a great deal for 300 bones off a TV which is very enticing, but come with a 2 year agreement. I also read that Dish offers an 18month commitment, but if you don't want the commitment, you get the same package prices but fork over an activation fee. That might be my best bet as I can go month to month and see if I like it. I still want as good a SD picture as possible, and cheap monthly pricing. Satellite is cheaper but with a little more risk factors involved. An employee at a small shop around here was making it seem that while HD content will both be good, the SD feeds will be poorer over the satellite. Maybe he's getting a cut from Cox, who knows. I know it will also come down to what TV I get, and I'm trying to find a good 40incher that can handle SD content well but can't really find much info on that..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> 3) For both users, is HD content variable? Meaning that if a provider claims it has channels x and y in HD, are they ALWAYS shown in HD or to they switch back and forth between feeds (say only HD for primetime shows?). Is this different in satellite vs. cable providers?



Most of the current national HD cable networks DO NOT broadcast in true HD. What you usually get is stretchovision, which means the standard 4:3 picture is stretched to fill the screen. That creates a terrible viewing experience.



Check this out, it's about aspect ratios and widescreen:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...reenorama.html 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> 4) Whats the deal with local channels + satellite? Are they always in HD or only during primetime telecasts? Does the satellite provider have to install an extra satellite to capture the locals?



Local channels only broadcast in HD for primetime and local news. WKYC, WEW and WJW all do HD local news. Also, some shows like Wheel and Jeopardy are broadcast in HD. Everything not in HD is show in 4:3 with black sidebars.


----------



## drummersteve

Damn....JUST realized that both satellite providers aren't offering my locals in HD. They're offering the locals, but only in SD. I'm guessing I'd have to nab an OTA antenna if I wanted to catch those in HD. Now I'm gonna have to rethink everything again...maybe the extra cash for Cox will be worth it.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/12552023
> 
> 
> I hate to break the news to TW folks, but Cox Cleveland has gone on an HD channel adding spree.
> 
> 
> With smaller providers like Armstrong and Cox adding more HD channels, I wonder if it's a response to DirecTV's recent HD additions. I was also discussing with my friends who are DirecTV subscribers how much more bandwidth would be available if they didn't have to "double up" on HD/SD channels.
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland HDLineup as of 12/21:
> 
> 
> PBS
> 
> WKYC
> 
> WOIO
> 
> WEWS
> 
> WUAB
> 
> WJW
> 
> TNT
> 
> Universal
> 
> NFL Network
> 
> FSN
> 
> MTV
> 
> TBS
> 
> MOJO (INHD)
> 
> History
> 
> A&E
> 
> ESPN 1&2
> 
> National Geographic
> 
> Discovery HD Theater
> 
> TV Food Network
> 
> Home & Garden HGTV
> 
> Sports Time Ohio
> 
> HBO
> 
> Cinemax
> 
> Showtime
> 
> Starz
> 
> 
> and an HD OnDemand channel



Actually not that impressive. Wide Open West has all those channels except:


PBS

ESPN2

History

NatGeo

Universal

MTV


WOW has Wealth, HDNet, HDNet Movies.


With that said, I dumped WOW a couple weeks ago and have gone with D* for all my HD needs. I just didn't see WOW (or TWC) making any great leaps anytime soon to offer the HD channels D* added in a month.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12560523
> 
> 
> Damn....JUST realized that both satellite providers aren't offering my locals in HD. They're offering the locals, but only in SD. I'm guessing I'd have to nab an OTA antenna if I wanted to catch those in HD. Now I'm gonna have to rethink everything again...maybe the extra cash for Cox will be worth it.



Not true. DirecTV offers ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX Cleveland locals in HD with the MPEG4 equipment and the 5-LNB dish (which is what you should be getting anyway). PBS HD to come in early 2008. They have another satellite going up in a couple months that will add capacity for more HD locals.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12560523
> 
> 
> Damn....JUST realized that both satellite providers aren't offering my locals in HD. They're offering the locals, but only in SD. I'm guessing I'd have to nab an OTA antenna if I wanted to catch those in HD. Now I'm gonna have to rethink everything again...maybe the extra cash for Cox will be worth it.



D* isn't doing HD locals for Cleveland? I knew E*(Dish) didn't, but I thought D* had jsut the "big four".


But I would definately look into cable first and try HD cable before buying any satellite equipment. COX has many national channels Time Warner doesn't.

http://www.cox.com/cleveland/cable/channel-lineup.asp 

http://www.cox.com/cleveland/cable/c...up-digital.asp 


It also looks like COX has a really good DVR. In their demo, I see Passport Echo menus. Passport Echo is a fantastic DVR, the best you can get.

http://www.cox.com/cleveland/cable/dvr/dvr_demo.asp


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/12559842
> 
> 
> Channel 5's Joe Pagonakis did a story on Time Warner today about a elderly lady not getting a rebate from Time Warner. Anyways, Joe said they are a better Business Burea member, yet they've gotten over 300 complaints over the last three years and half of which have been this year alone.



I saw Joe Pack of napkins report too. I hope the Troubleshooters are flooded with complainst if Time Warner decides to deploy Navigator in NE Ohio. I can only imagine how busy they would be.


----------



## drummersteve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12560798
> 
> 
> Not true. DirecTV offers ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX Cleveland locals in HD with the MPEG4 equipment and the 5-LNB dish (which is what you should be getting anyway). PBS HD to come in early 2008. They have another satellite going up in a couple months that will add capacity for more HD locals.



Could have fooled me. I'm still getting confused here and there and I've been trying to compare all these options for the past few days lol. Well thats a plus for D*. The up front cost is a bit more than Dish, but still a bit less than Cox, even considering they charge another fee if I want std. cable in another room. I know BB and CC are offering 300 bones off an HDTV if you sign up for D*. That's really enticing to me, but the only thing that scares me about it is signal quality during rain/thunder/snowstorms and a 2 yr agreement. With the nasty weather around these waters I'd hate to get unlucky with signal quality/HD quality and have to deal with it for 2 years. The good thing about Cox is that I pretty much know what I'm getting and there generally won't be any loss of feed. The bad is that it jumps up in price a bit after the promo period...ahhh decisions decisions....


----------



## jtscherne

I've had both Dish and Directv and I'll state that I had more weather dropouts with Dish than Directv, but your mileage may vary. I have never had a dropout during a snowstorm with either and only the heaviest of rain has caused a dropout otherwise.


Bottom line is, if you want locals and you don't want to use an over the air antenna, Directv is your only choice, satellite-wise. In addition, they have the largest amount of HD programming of anyone. While it's true that many of the newer HD national channels aren't broadcasting much HD content yet, they're already on the system (and the lack of HD programming isn't Directv's fault anyway).


You might want to consider calling the satellite company directly, rather than going through a store, unless you don't have an HD set yet and you need the $300 off. You might be able to work out a better deal with little or no upfront costs.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12561019
> 
> 
> Could have fooled me. I'm still getting confused here and there and I've been trying to compare all these options for the past few days lol. Well thats a plus for D*. The up front cost is a bit more than Dish, but still a bit less than Cox, even considering they charge another fee if I want std. cable in another room. I know BB and CC are offering 300 bones off an HDTV if you sign up for D*. That's really enticing to me, but the only thing that scares me about it is signal quality during rain/thunder/snowstorms and a 2 yr agreement. With the nasty weather around these waters I'd hate to get unlucky with signal quality/HD quality and have to deal with it for 2 years. The good thing about Cox is that I pretty much know what I'm getting and there generally won't be any loss of feed. The bad is that it jumps up in price a bit after the promo period...ahhh decisions decisions....


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12560523
> 
> 
> Damn....
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> JUST realized that both satellite providers aren't offering my locals in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're offering the locals, but only in SD. I'm guessing I'd have to nab an OTA antenna if I wanted to catch those in HD. Now I'm gonna have to rethink everything again...maybe the extra cash for Cox will be worth it.
Click to expand...


drummersteve:


Dish(E*) does NOT provide locals in HD (digital). Direct TV (D*) DOES provide locals in HD (digital).

Sorry....a pet peeve of mine....it's gotta be digital before it can be HD!!!!!!


----------



## hookbill

I will also tell you that D* does locals in HD. If you've never used a DVR before then I would highly recommend going with D* before going with cabel (D* meaning Direct TV).


For one thing it is cheaper. I've heard good things about their DVR. The only thing that might be a negative is if you have to use a land line phone but I think the new DVR gets around that.


If you do go with cable ask if they use Switched Digital Video. I don't believe that Cox offers the SA 8300, I think they offer the Moto box. But I also believe that Cox is on the list to receive TiVo software.







That is good news for you if they go that route because TiVo blows everything else out of the water.


----------



## stuart628

Okay if I can throw my two cents in here. First off Directv and Dish network IF not aligned properly will go out in the rain, If aligned properly it takes a really good storm to knock my satellite out! and if it does go out it only goes out for maybe 30 seconds at the most for me. I have had satellite for 4 years and have heard the comments you guys have said about satellite going out in the weather and to be honest thats generally false (again if your satellite is aligned it will take a dozy of storm to go out). Now I said all that to say this, Directv does use a ka band satellite (the new ones they are launching in the 99 degree position and the 103 degree position) which are a little more touchy, meaing in THEORY they could go out in the rain easier. But Dish has alos cranked up the signal on these a bit, and made sure that they sent out training videos to get the techs to line them up right (if you search I think you can find a training video at solidsignal.com) anyways with what directv has done to their satellite to make sure its stronger in the KA signal area, I havent heard of complaints. Now On to more things, Directv does in fact have the big 4 in HD, Dish does not. ALL signals from satellite are Digital, but their is compression used by both satellite companies because of a bandwidth crunch they went through. Directv dosent compress HD from what I have read, whereas Dish does for now, but DIsh is launching two satellites this year (08) and should be good to go by about the end of march to mid april (if everything keeps on track) to play catch up (total number of HD channels, Locals in HD). Also both companies have the Cleveland RSN HD channels. As far as DVR's go, Dish Dvr's are generally rated higher then alot of the companies (including Directv) the thing to keep in mind with dish is, if you have two tvs (one HD, and one SD) their vip722 can control both of those tvs, out of one box! and as far as the 300 dollars off a HDTV through best buy, if you search around satelliteguys, there was a deal with dish dont know if its still good or not, but you get 800 off of any Aquos HDTV with the purchase of Dish network! anything I missed or any other questions please feel free to ask! also as far as costs go, Dish network is raising their costs (and adding different HD packages, one for 9.99) We just posted the prices at satelliteguys.us, Theses prices will be good from feburary on! and keep in mind Directv will be doing the same, aand on installation costs, call Cox, ask them if they will waive them as you are thinking of going satellite, you never know they could give you a good deal, but if you have your heart set on satellte go for it, if you were a football fan this would be easy! go Directv they have the sunday ticket!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/12561569
> 
> 
> drummersteve:
> 
> 
> Dish(E*) does NOT provide locals in HD (digital). Direct TV (D*) DOES provide locals in HD (digital).
> 
> Sorry....a pet peeve of mine....it's gotta be digital before it can be HD!!!!!!



I'm a bit confused by your statement. If E* provides a method to receive HD OTA then it is a digital signal. The question is, can you receive it?


OTA signals are just as digital as satellite or cable.


Or did I just misunderstand your statement?


----------



## drummersteve

Thanks for the replies guys, lots of great info around here.


----------



## drummersteve

Ok, now I've got a question about QAM tuners. From the info that I could gather, if I had a regular analog cable connection coupled with an HDTV that included a QAM tuner, I should be able to pick up all my locals in HD, correct? Now if this holds true, wouldn't the picture not be of HD quality because the feed would still be running through COAX and not component? Does anyone do this with a QAM tuner? Is there anyway of using a QAM tuner to pick up HD/digital but through component?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12564261
> 
> 
> Ok, now I've got a question about QAM tuners. From the info that I could gather, if I had a regular analog cable connection coupled with an HDTV that included a QAM tuner, I should be able to pick up all my locals in HD, correct? Now if this holds true, wouldn't the picture not be of HD quality because the feed would still be running through COAX and not component? Does anyone do this with a QAM tuner? Is there anyway of using a QAM tuner to pick up HD/digital but through component?



Yes, locals via QAM in HD, assuming your cable company provides them unencrypted (most do) but verify which locals are available per cable company in QAM HD. Ex: WOW carries all locals in QAM HD unencrypted, except WVIZ and WBNX.


No need for component prior to the tuner. Another option is to get your locals in HD OTA (over the air). But that is dependent on your location, topography, distance from towers, antenna, and having a built in or external ATSC tuner. If external tuner you can then do component or HDMI should you chose.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12565070
> 
> 
> No need for component prior to the tuner. Another option is to get your locals in HD OTA (over the air). But that is dependent on your location, topography, distance from towers, antenna, and having a built in or external ATSC tuner. If external tuner you can then do component or HDMI should you chose.



Just for my own understanding, how does a television with a built in QAM deliver the signal? Here's what I see: Cable to back of set which leads right to QAM in television and then...what?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12565137
> 
> 
> Just for my own understanding, how does a television with a built in QAM deliver the signal? Here's what I see: Cable to back of set which leads right to QAM in television and then...what?



As stated, the tv would also have to have a built in ATSC tuner. If the tv does not have two coax inputs (one QAM, one ATSC) he could have a simple cable box into tv via S-video, component, composite.


Many tv's have both QAM and ATSC tuners, some even have a third tuner for NTSC.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12565137
> 
> 
> Just for my own understanding, how does a television with a built in QAM deliver the signal? Here's what I see: Cable to back of set which leads right to QAM in television and then...what?



When you set a TV with a QAM tuner to scan the "cable" input, the NTSC tuner first scans for the analog stations, then the QAM tuner automatically scans for the digital stations. While the scan is taking place, you typically see a running tally of the analog stations found and the digital stations found.


After the scan, and with the "cable" input selected, you can then use the channel up and down keys to access both analog and digital stations, or you can directly input the channel number. If your cable company has set it up correctly, you should be able to see your digital stations on the same channel number as you would if you had a digital cable box (e.g. "203"). If not, you will see something like "101-203". In any case, your TV should also be able to pass digital audio (including 5.1) to a receiver.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12561811
> 
> 
> If you do go with cable ask if they use Switched Digital Video. I don't believe that Cox offers the SA 8300, I think they offer the Moto box. But I also believe that Cox is on the list to receive TiVo software.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is good news for you if they go that route because TiVo blows everything else out of the water.



COX uses the Motorola DVR with Passport Echo. You really can't beat Passport Echo(I know hookbill would disagree!) but compared to other cable/satellite systems(D*, E*, SARA, Navigator) Passport is the best.

http://www.cox.com/cleveland/cable/dvr/dvr_demo.asp


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12565137
> 
> 
> Just for my own understanding, how does a television with a built in QAM deliver the signal? Here's what I see: Cable to back of set which leads right to QAM in television and then...what?



Sorry hookbill, I was running out the door as I was replying before. As ajstan eluded to, both can be accomplished with a single coax input, provided the tv has the correct components. But the combination of different dual inputs is quite extensive.


I have two scenarios in my home. One plasma has built in ATSC, NTSC and QAM tuners, the other is just a plasma monitor with no tuners whatsoever.


Panny plasma (built in tuners):

Cable system ===> coax to STB ===> tv via S-video

OTA ===> antenna ====> coax quad shield ====> tv via coax quad shield

note: single coax input to tv is both ATSC and NTSC


NEC plasma monitor (no built in tuners) :

cable system ===> coax to STB ===> tv via component

OTA ===> antenna ===> coax quad shield to external digital ATSC/QAM tuner ===> tv via HDMI (or component, if you wish)


Same antenna feeds digital HD to both tv's, analog to one


This is just two of a multitude of dual input (QAM and ATSC) connection scenarios. And as with anything, each type of input has it's advantages & disadvantages.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12562332
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I'm a bit confused by your statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If E* provides a method to receive HD OTA then it is a digital signal. The question is, can you receive it?
> 
> 
> OTA signals are just as digital as satellite or cable.
> 
> 
> Or did I just misunderstand your statement?
Click to expand...


hookbill:

Hey, I realize they both have OTA tuners. I was simply responding to a newbee's query on E* or D* providing the digital locals w/o an antenna (as he already stated he was reluctant to install). I didn't want to send the guy away dizzy!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12565304
> 
> 
> COX uses the Motorola DVR with Passport Echo. You really can't beat Passport Echo(I know hookbill would disagree!) but compared to other cable/satellite systems(D*, E*, SARA, Navigator) Passport is the best.
> 
> http://www.cox.com/cleveland/cable/dvr/dvr_demo.asp



Well, you learn something new everyday. I didn't know the Moto box used passport. I "assumed" that it was different software since it was from a different company. I've never even seen a Moto box.


I don't disagree with your statement that passport is the best software a cable company provides. When Cox delivers TiVo software, I wll at that point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/12568638
> 
> 
> hookbill:
> 
> Hey, I realize they both have OTA tuners. I was simply responding to a newbee's query on E* or D* providing the digital locals w/o an antenna (as he already stated he was reluctant to install). I didn't want to send the guy away dizzy!!!




Oh. So you decided just to send me away dizzy. Thanks for the clerification.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12557436
> 
> 
> Ahm. The "HD PBS" feed on satellite is the exact same feed that WNEO/WEAO & WVIZ carry on their HD -1 channel. So when Newshour goes HD there is only one place in PBS land where that feed will be sent: PBS HD!



Someone up here earlier, I believe, said it wasn't showing up on the national PBS HD channel.


A quick check of 45/49's online schedule next week shows alternate programming on PBS HD in the 7 PM hour every weekday, and the Newshour only on the analog/SD channels.


The HD broadcast started a week ago Monday.


THAT'S what I'm talking about.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12570623
> 
> 
> Someone up here earlier, I believe, said it wasn't showing up on the national PBS HD channel.
> 
> 
> A quick check of 45/49's online schedule next week shows alternate programming on PBS HD in the 7 PM hour every weekday, and the Newshour only on the analog/SD channels.
> 
> 
> The HD broadcast started a week ago Monday.
> 
> 
> THAT'S what I'm talking about.



Yup. NewsHour went HD on Dec. 17th. See this post. 


I think the real question is: If a show is shot and produced in HD but no one can see the finished HD product, is the show really "HD"? (Kind of like the tree falling in the forest with no one around analogy....)


There is a lot of confusion on why NewsHour remains on the analog/SD version of WVIZ(25), WNEO(45) or WEAO(49) and has not been bumped to the digital/HD channel despite it being actively and currently shot in HD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Are you happy with the quality of feed/HD channels? Both audio and video? I'm not too worried about actual HD channel selection, thats more personal preference. How about SD content?



D* subscriber here. (Previous E* sub). Yes I'm happy with D*'s audio/picture quality. I have a feeling once you purchase your HDTV, you may have a different opinion on the second part to your question. HD channel selection should be one of your top factors in deciding among providers. Once you watch a few HD channels, you'll think SD channels are garbage in comparison. I may be a bit spoiled, but I personally have no SD channels in my favorite's program list. SD isn't even an option for me when I have so much HD to choose from.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> 2)For you satellite owners, do you experience dropouts in rain/thunder/snow?? How long?



This is probably one of the most widespread stereotypes for satellite's. I've had satellite as long as I can remember and I can't recall the last time it went out. As a poster mentioned earlier, if it's installed properly, you shouldn't have any problems.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> 3) For both users, is HD content variable? Meaning that if a provider claims it has channels x and y in HD, are they ALWAYS shown in HD or to they switch back and forth between feeds (say only HD for primetime shows?). Is this different in satellite vs. cable providers?



If the named provider has the HD channel in their offered channel lineup, you will get any and all HD programming specific to that channel. The amount of HD programming varies on each channel though.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12559822
> 
> 
> 4) Whats the deal with local channels + satellite? Are they always in HD or only during primetime telecasts? Does the satellite provider have to install an extra satellite to capture the locals?



You'll have to consult TV guides or channel lists to see exactly which shows are offered in HD. Typically, most important primetime shows, sporting events and news programs are offered in HD these days. And YES, Direct TV offers local's in HD without the need of an additional antenna.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12573846
> 
> 
> Yup. NewsHour went HD on Dec. 17th. See this post.
> 
> 
> I think the real question is: If a show is shot and produced in HD but no one can see the finished HD product, is the show really "HD"? (Kind of like the tree falling in the forest with no one around analogy....)
> 
> 
> There is a lot of confusion on why NewsHour remains on the analog/SD version of WVIZ(25), WNEO(45) or WEAO(49) and has not been bumped to the digital/HD channel despite it being actively and currently shot in HD.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *From PBS Website:* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Until the national conversion to digital television in February 2009, PBS will offer local PBS stations simultaneous feeds of both an HD and standard-definition NEWSHOUR broadcast. The standard-definition NEWSHOUR feeds will be down-converted from HD by PBS and will therefore appear to viewers of analog channels in a letterbox format.



The problem may be on the local end. Since the show airs at different times(6PM on WVIZ, 7PM on WNEO) and the network provides the "feeds", it sounds like the affiliate has to record the program and air it. I'd be willing to bet the local PBS doesn't have HD recording equipment.


This situation seems very similar to "Wheel" and "Jeopardy", WEWS has HD recording equipment to record both shows off the satellite.


If this is the case, PBS is making a mistake. It would make more sense to show the News Hour at a designated time on the national HD PBS channel.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12574100
> 
> 
> The problem may be on the local end. Since the show airs at different times(6PM on WVIZ, 7PM on WNEO) and the network provides the "feeds", it sounds like the affiliate has to record the program and air it. I'd be willing to bet the local PBS doesn't have HD recording equipment.
> 
> 
> This situation seems very similar to "Wheel" and "Jeopardy", WEWS has HD recording equipment to record both shows off the satellite.
> 
> 
> If this is the case, PBS is making a mistake. It would make more sense to show the News Hour at a designated time on the national HD PBS channel.



I googled an old article about Newshour production circa 2001. They send it out over a national feed live at 6pm, then again at 7pm, and at 10pm ET (presumably for the west coast stations to pick up). This would imply that no recording equipment is needed at the local station.


The way I understand it, most of the PBS stations don't have the equipment that would allow them to cut into the main "-1" national HD feed with this Newshour feed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12575022
> 
> 
> I googled an old article about Newshour production circa 2001. They send it out over a national feed live at 6pm, then again at 7pm, and at 10pm ET (presumably for the west coast stations to pick up). This would imply that no recording equipment is needed at the local station.
> 
> 
> The way I understand it, most of the PBS stations don't have the equipment that would allow them to cut into the main "-1" national HD feed with this Newshour feed.



I'm not certain about this but from this statement it kind of reminds me of how plain old regular television use to work. There were two feeds sent out, one at 7:30 (remember when primetime started at 7:30?) and one at 10:30.


So the famous statement, "9:00 eastern, 8:00 central" was used.


I believe this may still be the case since primetime shows in the central time zone are still the same.


So that "recording" feature must be awful expensive. Specially HD recording and that would definitely put PBS in a difficult position since their funding is limited.


I'm sure he's busy with the holidays and all but TV21CHIEF could probably clear all this up quickly.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12557436
> 
> 
> Ahm. ....the "bugs" ID'ing the station. BTW it was the lack of this bug that kept PBS HD off WNEO/WEAO for all that time.



Michael P is usually 100% on-the-money correct, but he missed here. The fee charged by PBS was more than 45/49 was willing (able) to cover. If you recall, they did initially carry the HD channel and when PBS decided to charge for it, they pulled it off. They have had the capability of "bugging" all along with the Agilevision encoder.


----------



## clevemkt

FYI... re: DirecTV locals in HD. I understand that DirecTV has installed equipment in the Youngstown market to receive the Y-town local HDs, so my guess is that Cleveland mkt is similarly equipped. Just waiting to turn it on?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/12576118
> 
> 
> FYI... re: DirecTV locals in HD. I understand that DirecTV has installed equipment in the Youngstown market to receive the Y-town local HDs, so my guess is that Cleveland mkt is similarly equipped. Just waiting to turn it on?



Unless I misinterpreted your statement, even though I am not D* subscriber I can say that I know that locals are available on D* in HD for sometime.


----------



## hookbill

You know many of us have talked on this board for some amount of time. Sometimes we argue a bit and sometimes we all agree. We educated each other and we all from time to time show our personalities.


I probably have more friends here then I do in the real world.










So I personally would like to take this moment to wish everybody on the local board a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.


And if this greeting doesn't fit in this politically correct world, then you know what I mean.


Have a great holiday!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12576179
> 
> 
> You know many of us have talked on this board for some amount of time. Sometimes we argue a bit and sometimes we all agree. We educated each other and we all from time to time show our personalities.
> 
> 
> I probably have more friends here then I do in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I personally would like to take this moment to wish everybody on the local board a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
> 
> 
> And if this greeting doesn't fit in this politically correct world, then you know what I mean.
> 
> 
> Have a great holiday!



Timely and well put hookbill. Ditto to you and may your New Year bring you good health, prosperity and more HD content!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12576179
> 
> 
> You know many of us have talked on this board for some amount of time. Sometimes we argue a bit and sometimes we all agree. We educated each other and we all from time to time show our personalities.
> 
> 
> I probably have more friends here then I do in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I personally would like to take this moment to wish everybody on the local board a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
> 
> 
> And if this greeting doesn't fit in this politically correct world, then you know what I mean.
> 
> 
> Have a great holiday!



Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone as well!


*Holiday Programing note: 8pm on ABC, "Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas" (Animated) will be broadcast in HD. It will however remain in it's OAR of 4:3.


----------



## Smarty-pants

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!










I asked my wife last night if she got me a Blu-Ray player for Christmas (I just got an HD-DVD about a month ago). She got this look on her face like, "What the heck is Bleray?????" Oh well...


----------



## JJkizak

Smarty pants:

Cut a deal, maybe your wife is a Repulican---famous words of Oddball in "Kelleys Hereos".

JJK


----------



## TerkJerk

Hello all,


I live on the westside of Cleveland and recently purchased a a terk Slim line antenna and mounted it on top of my garage. Looking southeast from my location, I can see the antenna towers in Parma. However, I can only receive 5.1, 8.1, 43.1, 43.2, 55.1 and 61.1.


What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bigger antenna or maybe a second one? Do I need my current antenna higher? Please help, any advise would be appreciated.


----------



## stuart628

Merry Christmas All!!!! Heres hoping to a great 2008 full of HD (I hear Dish is going to be making some announcements! and we all want to see Directv get 30 more channels in about 4 days! also Time warner has nowhere to go but up, and we will see how SDV does, but that is besides the point!) hope you all have GREAT holidays!


----------



## Inundated

Happy Holidays to all the fine folks here! You, too, Hookbill!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TerkJerk* /forum/post/12579185
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bigger antenna or maybe a second one? Do I need my current antenna higher? Please help, any advise would be appreciated.



I don't have any time to go into detail here, but the problem is that you're not picking up the two local stations with actual frequencies in the VHF band. You need an antenna that will do VHF.


WKYC/3 (digital 3.1) is actually on RF channel 2 - VHF

WOIO/19 (digital 19.1) is actually on RF channel 10 - VHF


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12579776
> 
> 
> Time warner has nowhere to go but up, and we will see how SDV does, but that is besides the point!)



I hate to be Debbie Downer, as fas as Time Warner, there are rumors on the Navigator forum that the bug-filled, hideous Navigator will be deployed sometime next year. Oh well, we'll worry about that one later!


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone. And I'll second that -more HD in '08. I hope cale gets off it's butt because that's the only place we'll get it. I see the HD lineup on network TV shrinking as the writers strike continues. We need the HD movie channels and other programming like USA, FX and maybe some REAL HD at TBS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12579776
> 
> 
> also Time warner has nowhere to go but up, and we will see how SDV does, but that is besides the point!)




Just to counter nickdawgs doom and gloom there is a way to avoid the navigator software. Get a TiVo S3 or HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12576179
> 
> 
> You know many of us have talked on this board for some amount of time. Sometimes we argue a bit and sometimes we all agree. We educated each other and we all from time to time show our personalities.
> 
> 
> I probably have more friends here then I do in the real world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I personally would like to take this moment to wish everybody on the local board a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
> 
> 
> And if this greeting doesn't fit in this politically correct world, then you know what I mean.
> 
> 
> Have a great holiday!



Well said, Hookbill.


Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everyone. May all your mpeg streams have the correct PCR.


----------



## JJkizak

Terkjerk:

And if you want to pick up PBS 49.1, 49.2, 49.3 you will need an outdoor antenna.

JJK


----------



## schandorsky

Fox to sell TV station in Cleveland. http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...12/24/fox.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/12580951
> 
> 
> Fox to sell TV station in Cleveland. http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...12/24/fox.html



I reported that about two weeks ago. They even announced it on Fox News yesterday.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=10551


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12581041
> 
> 
> I reported that about two weeks ago. They even announced it on Fox News yesterday.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=10551



SORRY


----------



## drummersteve

Indeed, Merry X-Mas and Happy New Year to all...and if not, just Happy Holidays! I'm really appreciating all the extra info and experiences this forum has to offer. Got a bunch of info for the local satellite stations vs. cable co's thanks to this forum. Next decision is the bigger decision; the actual TV!! lol...hopefully I'll catch some luck on after x-mas sales......thanks again guys.....


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TerkJerk* /forum/post/12579185
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> 
> I live on the westside of Cleveland and recently purchased a a terk Slim line antenna and mounted it on top of my garage. Looking southeast from my location, I can see the antenna towers in Parma. However, I can only receive 5.1, 8.1, 43.1, 43.2, 55.1 and 61.1.
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Do I need a bigger antenna or maybe a second one? Do I need my current antenna higher? Please help, any advise would be appreciated.



If you could post the actual model number, verify you mounted this antenna OUTSIDE, and give your actual city then others in here can help you better.



As others have suggested:

1. make sure it is both UHF and VHF capable

2. if not currently located outside, temporarily try it outside, and as high as is reasonably possible.


Also, are your connections to the antenna good? No splitters in the coax line? Not running to multiple TV's? Using well shielded cable (I'm assuming it's RG6 or RG59 coax)?


If all above are true/correct, then you may need a more powerful (larger) antenna or even an amplified antenna.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12576032
> 
> 
> So that "recording" feature must be awful expensive. Specially HD recording and that would definitely put PBS in a difficult position since their funding is limited.



Actually from what a Sony VP tells me, HD recording is very inexpensive and easy (can be done on just about any computer.) The "rub" is the switching equipment. That is much more expensive and more difficult to implement and interface with older equipment.


----------



## clevemkt

From Broadcast Engineering website:



Public television stations across the United States will soon be available in HD to DIRECTV customers through an agreement reached by DIRECTV, the Association of Public Television Stations (APTS) and the PBS. DIRECTV viewers will have access to other Public Television content as well.


DIRECTV will include the local HD feeds of Public Television stations in its HD rollout plans beginning in 2008. DIRECTV, APTS and PBS also will work together to develop new VOD offerings to make available local and national public television programming to DIRECTV's customers anytime they want it. In addition, DIRECTV will carry two national SD channels of public television programming.


For more information, see www.directv.com


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/12583311
> 
> 
> Actually from what a Sony VP tells me, HD recording is very inexpensive and easy (can be done on just about any computer.) The "rub" is the switching equipment. That is much more expensive and more difficult to implement and interface with older equipment.



Interesting. Maybe the PBS satellite feed to the affiliates is different from the four major networks. The channel 21 chief engineer posted this a couple years ago. It did not sound so cheap. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...40#post6455440


----------



## jtscherne

For those of you that care, the NFL has reached agreements with both NBC and CBS to show Saturday's New England/Giants game:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true 


Nothing about HD feed, so it's probably just going to be SD.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12593190
> 
> 
> For those of you that care, the NFL has reached agreements with both NBC and CBS to show Saturday's New England/Giants game:
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true
> 
> 
> Nothing about HD feed, so it's probably just going to be SD.



I saw that on the news just about a half an hour ago. Very peculiar. I can't imagine it not being in HD though. If NE wins it would be the first time a team would ever go 16-0. I'd say that would be worth broadcasting in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

NFL Network shows it in HD, but I'm not sure whether they'll allow the other networks to.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12593647
> 
> 
> NFL Network shows it in HD, but I'm not sure whether they'll allow the other networks to.



I'm betting they will show it in HD.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12593545
> 
> 
> I saw that on the news just about a half an hour ago. Very peculiar. I can't imagine it not being in HD though. If NE wins it would be the first time a team would ever go 16-0. I'd say that would be worth broadcasting in HD.



'72 Dolphins went undefeated. But fewer games per season back then and most assuredly not in HD!


What a great run for NE!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12593647
> 
> 
> NFL Network shows it in HD, but I'm not sure whether they'll allow the other networks to.



If I remember right, the last time the Browns were on NFL Network (last year against the Steelers?), the game was in HD on whatever local Cleveland affiliate carried it.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12593190
> 
> 
> For those of you that care, the NFL has reached agreements with both NBC and CBS to show Saturday's New England/Giants game:
> 
> http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true
> 
> 
> Nothing about HD feed, so it's probably just going to be SD.



Even though it hasn't been exactly spelled out, the use of the words "simulcast" indicates to me that both NBC and CBS will carry the same HD feed as the NFL Network.


Also, an interesting side note as stated in Engadget HD: "The NFL has never had a three network simulcast before, and this is the first simulcast since CBS and NBC teamed up on Super Bowl I in 1967."


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12597230
> 
> 
> Even though it hasn't been exactly spelled out, the use of the words "simulcast" indicates to me that both NBC and CBS will carry the same HD feed as the NFL Network.
> 
> 
> Also, an interesting side note as stated in Engadget HD: "The NFL has never had a three network simulcast before, and this is the first simulcast since CBS and NBC teamed up on Super Bowl I in 1967."



Yup. It's confirmed that the Pats vs. Giants game will be in HD on the NFL Network, CBS and NBC, all in 1080i.


Now the fun part will be to compare each broadcast to determine who has the most pristine picture. I put my money on NFL Network since both CBS and NBC have subchannels, degrading the picture on their main channel.....


----------



## jtscherne

Two more Directv HD channels:


217 - Tennis Channel.

610 - CSTV


----------



## jtscherne

It will also be interesting to see what happens with the sound. NFL Network on Directv is only broadcasting games in 2.0.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12607337
> 
> 
> Yup. It's confirmed that the Pats vs. Giants game will be in HD on the NFL Network, CBS and NBC, all in 1080i.
> 
> 
> Now the fun part will be to compare each broadcast to determine who has the most pristine picture. I put my money on NFL Network since both CBS and NBC have subchannels, degrading the picture on their main channel.....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12608044
> 
> 
> Two more Directv HD channels:
> 
> 
> 217 - Tennis Channel.
> 
> 610 - CSTV



Thank you.

Cleveland HD Channel List by Provider, Rev. 30 is now updated.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12608051
> 
> 
> It will also be interesting to see what happens with the sound. NFL Network on Directv is only broadcasting games in 2.0.



On WKYC, the program guide says Dolby Digital, HDTV. On WOIO, it only says HDTV. WKYC will most likely have the best sound. WKYC's sound is usually better than WOIO's.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12607337
> 
> 
> Now the fun part will be to compare each broadcast to determine who has the most pristine picture. I put my money on NFL Network since both CBS and NBC have subchannels, degrading the picture on their main channel.....



I think the best picture will be on NBC/WKYC. We all remember the terrible picture on WOIO-HD on SD programming plus their HD broadcast is not that hot. Macroblocking abd blurriness are common on WOIO-HD.


----------



## Smarty-pants

ditto. WKYC will be the one to watch.


----------



## jtscherne

My receiver specifically tells me how many speakers are getting signal, but since the original transmission will be the NFL Network's, they won't be able to send anything that isn't already there.


----------



## hookbill

This whole discussion about the picture quality, and sound quality is kind of cracking me up. So much speculation.


Here's my thoughts: I doubt I personally will be able to see any pq difference between NBC and CBS. Why everyone thinks NFL will look even better is a mystery to me. Yes, I've seen the reports some have said about how great it looks. How in the heck can a network that is two years old possibly put on a better presentation then the ones who have been around for years.


And just because it's a 3 way simulcast that doesn't mean that NBC and CBS won't have their own cameras there. In other words the majority of the broadcast may have a shared picture but I suspect that NBC and CBS will have different angles from time to time.


Having said all of that I also will go with the same theory that Dolby Digital 5.1 will be on both channels and it will be true Dolby 5.1. And having said that I'll put my money on CBS having the best sound. But the only reason I say that is because generally when I watch a show on CBS their Dolby sounds best to me, but I have never watched NBC's Sunday Night Football.


I guess we will all see tomorrow night, won't we.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12608563
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Cleveland HD Channel List by Provider, Rev. 30 is now updated.



FYI - the "TW HD Link" link at the top of the spreadsheet points to a non-existant page on TWC's site... The rest of them still work. (Not like it's a serious problem...)










Thanks for the sheet - very handy.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12618564
> 
> 
> FYI - the "TW HD Link" link at the top of the spreadsheet points to a non-existant page on TWC's site... The rest of them still work. (Not like it's a serious problem...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the sheet - very handy.



Another mistake I noticed is FSN and STO HD are not listed under Time Warner. WNEO-HD is also missing. There's also two extra channels: Cinemax HD and Starz HD. Time Warner does not carry Cinemax HD or Starz HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12618812
> 
> 
> Another mistake I noticed is FSN and STO HD are not listed under Time Warner. WNEO-HD is also missing. There's also two extra channels: Cinemax HD and Starz HD. Time Warner does not carry Cinemax HD or Starz HD.



Whoa, slow down their cowboy. Maybe in your area TW doesn't carry Cinemax HD and Starz HD but it does in mine.

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups/NEO...dLU_102407.pdf 


Now the interesting thing in my area it shows WNEO-HD, which we do not get, but in your area I'm sure you do.


----------



## stuart628

nickdawg, on the List STO and FSO are starred under Time warner Cable, meaning they are part time HD channels (game only). I thought the first time I looked at it they were saying they didnt have it, but the list is correct!


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody here have any experience with using a QAM tuner on Armstrong in Medina? Reports out of Pittsburgh back in January (the only thing I could find on Google) stated that only the locals were available, but Armstrong has updated a lot of HD since then (33 channels and growing plus some VOD!)


I'm looking to put a small LCD on the kitchen counter, and it would be nice to pick up the majority of stations without another cable box.


On a related note, anybody have any recommendations for a 17"-20" set with a QAM tuner?


----------



## hookbill

While my parrots were watcing the morning cartoons on TW WKYC-HD the picture froze and then a grey screen after I changed the channel.


OTA, D* people are you getting a picture?


----------



## jtscherne

Not getting them OTA or via Directv.


Directv has a notice up stating that the local TV station is having technical difficulties.


----------



## Valnar

WKYC-DT just went away for me on WOW cable in North Royalton. Nothing now....


Robert


----------



## Smarty-pants

My 3 yr old and 1 yr old were trying to watch Dragon on WKYC when they were so rudely interupted. Now they have to watch in crappy SD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12617131
> 
> 
> This whole discussion about the picture quality, and sound quality is kind of cracking me up. So much speculation.
> 
> 
> Here's my thoughts: I doubt I personally will be able to see any pq difference between NBC and CBS. Why everyone thinks NFL will look even better is a mystery to me. Yes, I've seen the reports some have said about how great it looks. How in the heck can a network that is two years old possibly put on a better presentation then the ones who have been around for years.
> 
> 
> And just because it's a 3 way simulcast that doesn't mean that NBC and CBS won't have their own cameras there. In other words the majority of the broadcast may have a shared picture but I suspect that NBC and CBS will have different angles from time to time.
> 
> 
> Having said all of that I also will go with the same theory that Dolby Digital 5.1 will be on both channels and it will be true Dolby 5.1. And having said that I'll put my money on CBS having the best sound. But the only reason I say that is because generally when I watch a show on CBS their Dolby sounds best to me, but I have never watched NBC's Sunday Night Football.
> 
> 
> I guess we will all see tomorrow night, won't we.



NFL Network will look better during fast motion shots because NFLN has no subchannels, thus little to no macroblocking. So my prediction is NFLN > CBS > NBC


The sound is crappy 2.0 coming from NFLN, so whether NBC or CBS are in DD5.1 doesn't matter. Garbage in, garbage out.


There won't be any different camera angles from CBS or NBC - we are going to get the Gumbel/Collinsworth announcing crew times THREE, so I would expect the video the be exactly the same.


----------



## jtscherne

Assuming WKYC gets their digital channel back up by then...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12619930
> 
> 
> On a related note, anybody have any recommendations for a 17"-20" set with a QAM tuner?



I've got a Vizio VX20L I bought refurb for a good price from newegg.com


It picks up all the clear QAMs very nicely.


Only one problem with it - if the QAM signal is weak and on an HD channel (mostly on NBC or CBS I've noticed it) - the TV will pixelate as the signal fades, then blast a full volume burst of static through the speakers, then reboot itself. Scared the living hell out of me the first time it happened. Nobody else on the VX20L thread says they have this problem, so maybe it's just something with my "refurb" set.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12620323
> 
> 
> NFL Network will look better during fast motion shots because NFLN has no subchannels, thus little to no macroblocking. So my prediction is NFLN > CBS > NBC
> 
> 
> The sound is crappy 2.0 coming from NFLN, so whether NBC or CBS are in DD5.1 doesn't matter. Garbage in, garbage out.
> 
> 
> There won't be any different camera angles from CBS or NBC - we are going to get the Gumbel/Collinsworth announcing crew times THREE, so I would expect the video the be exactly the same.



I was quite skeptical about the "different cameras" comments at this game. That's basically the whole idea behind "simulcast" isn't it? One broadcast over multiple end points? (don't know the techy words)


If both NBC & CBS had full equipment and their own cameras at one event that's the same as both networks covering the same live news story, no simulcast. I think with two complete and different sets of cameras at such a sporting event the camera guys would be running into each other. Which would be kinda fun to watch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12620410
> 
> 
> I was quite skeptical about the "different cameras" comments at this game. That's basically the whole idea behind "simulcast" isn't it? One broadcast over multiple end points? (don't know the techy words)
> 
> 
> If both NBC & CBS had full equipment and their own cameras at one event that's the same as both networks covering the same live news story, no simulcast. I think with two complete and different sets of cameras at such a sporting event the camera guys would be running into each other. Which would be kinda fun to watch.



I'm allowed to speculate as much as the next guy.







However the comment about the broadcasting crew does make me think twice about what I said previously.


Again, we will see tonight. Well, if WKYC comes back. Hey we still will see either way.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12620483
> 
> 
> I'm allowed to speculate as much as the next guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However the comment about the broadcasting crew does make me think twice about what I said previously.
> 
> 
> Again, we will see tonight. Well, if WKYC comes back. Hey we still will see either way.



More than allowed, your comments are welcomed. Was just adding my take on it.










Just checked my OTA WKYC feed, coming in fine. It's only a digital tuner, so I'm not getting the SD feed.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12620388
> 
> 
> I've got a Vizio VX20L I bought refurb for a good price from newegg.com
> 
> 
> It picks up all the clear QAMs very nicely.
> 
> 
> Only one problem with it - if the QAM signal is weak and on an HD channel (mostly on NBC or CBS I've noticed it) - the TV will pixelate as the signal fades, then blast a full volume burst of static through the speakers, then reboot itself. Scared the living hell out of me the first time it happened. Nobody else on the VX20L thread says they have this problem, so maybe it's just something with my "refurb" set.



Have you checked to see if th ere's a downloadable firmware upgrade available? If the set is crashing from a weak signal, there might be a patch for it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12620092
> 
> 
> My 3 yr old and 1 yr old were trying to watch Dragon on WKYC when they were so rudely interupted. Now they have to watch in crappy SD.



My parrots are suppose to have the intelligence of a 2-4 year old. Depending on the species.


Anyway when Dragon came on I did notice that everyone of them was looking at the TV. And they were all quiet. Then the picture went and like you they had to watch in SD.










Here's a little HD trivia that probably none of you guys no about. Parrots, with their keen eye site can actually get more out of HD then we can. I read this a while back in Bird Talk magazine.


I do not know if they prefer 1080i or 720p.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12621851
> 
> 
> My parrots are suppose to have the intelligence of a 2-4 year old. Depending on the species.
> 
> 
> Anyway when Dragon came on I did notice that everyone of them was looking at the TV. And they were all quiet. Then the picture went and like you they had to watch in SD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a little HD trivia that probably none of you guys no about. Parrots, with their keen eye site can actually get more out of HD then we can. I read this a while back in Bird Talk magazine.
> 
> 
> I do not know if they prefer 1080i or 720p.



If you really care for your birds Hook, you'll do the best you can to feed them a steady diet of only 1080p.


----------



## hookbill

No one has mentioned it, but I just turned on WKYZHD and it's up and running just fine. That is if you like golf.










Two things I could never understand watching on TV. Golf and Fishing. I understand that playing golf and fishing is enjoyable but just watching?


----------



## jtscherne

It was actually mentioned in passing a few posts back by toby10, but not obvious, since he probably checked after it came back on and didn't notice the problem.


----------



## Smarty-pants

For me WKYC was gone for only like 30-60 minutes. I just tried to tune in CBS though and now THAT is gone.


----------



## jtscherne

Watching on CBS. Definitely 5.1, even though NFL Network is 2.0. I'm getting sound out of my rear speakers, so it means that NFL Network can do 5.1, but isn't broadcasting it...


----------



## nickdawg

I'm DEFINATELY going with WKYC. NBC is keeping the show in original audio format(L/R). WOIO has some hideous 5.1 upconvert. It IS an upconvert because EVERY show on WOIO has sound coming out of the rear speakers, including the King of Queens and Will & Grace(which are syndication & not 5.1).


----------



## hookbill

WOIO has got it, and I'm not surprised. Definitely better sound. Even my wife noticed it and she never says anything about Dolby 5.1.


I'm getting plenty of crowd in the rear speakers. I'm with jtscherne it sounds like genuine 5.1.


----------



## jtscherne

I haven't checked other threads, but having listened for nearly a half hour, I agree with nickdawg... CBS is merely sending crowd noise to the rear speakers. I'm not hearing any discrete sounds from the rear speakers and I'm starting to wonder if they're just feeding the sound from the front speakers to the rear!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12624540
> 
> 
> WOIO has got it, and I'm not surprised. Definitely better sound. Even my wife noticed it and she never says anything about Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> I'm getting plenty of crowd in the rear speakers. I'm with jtscherne it sounds like genuine 5.1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12624457
> 
> 
> I'm DEFINATELY going with WKYC. NBC is keeping the show in original audio format(L/R). WOIO has some hideous 5.1 upconvert. It IS an upconvert because EVERY show on WOIO has sound coming out of the rear speakers, including the King of Queens and Will & Grace(which are syndication & not 5.1).



I also agree with nickdawg, announcers are coming out of side speakers and nothing in center speaker. I don't hear anything out of rear speakers.


But even though they are keeping the sound as delivered they are showing 5.1 on the broadcast itself.


If it is an upconvert on WOIO it's better then Dolby PLII would sound.


----------



## nickdawg

*Does anyone have NFL-HD? How is it on NFL-HD? 2/0, 3/2.1?


WKYC/NBC is flagged as 3/2.1, even though sound comes out L/R. WOIO is also 3/2.1 but it sounds like a bad Dolby PLII upconversion. The crowd noises out the rear were very irritating, I like the 2 channel sound on WKYC better. Leave it to WOIO to have loud, crazy sound! Just like a joke before WOIO went HD: If WOIO had 5.1 they could put a different news actor on each speaker, have them all talk and argue at the same time!


----------



## jtscherne

As I've said before, NFL Network only does 2.0. Basically, NBC is presenting the same sound (although it doesn't seem as loud).


Based on watching for a lengthy amount of time on each, my picture rankings are:


1. NFL Network

2. WOIO

3. WKYC


I checked WOIO and WKYC both OTA and via Directv and didn't see any real difference. Otherwise, I'm wondering whether WKYC's subchannel takes up more bandwidth than WOIO's?


----------



## ted_b

So I haven't been on this thread for awhile. Hi again.


My Runco 930 ceiling-mounted CRT fp died early December and I've installed a temporaray-but-nice Samsung 710 720p DLP pj (while I look for a 1080p over the next 6 months). Anyway, picture is great, blacks are fine, etc. Ran some good BlueJean `1.3a bonded HDMI in the celing, etc. OK, so now I needed to replace my DVI-only SA8000HD with WOW's SA8300HD. Is it the 8300, the poorer HD bandwidth lately, or maybe my pj, but most sports, especially NFL Football, pixelates like crazy on motion close-ups, etc. (like tonights Pats-Giants game, as an example). Is it the digital pj/8300 combo? If I went TivoHD would it be better (I'm less concerned about recording features per se...I have 3 other Tivos and seldom record in the HT room anyway....more about "live" TV PQ). Thx

Ted


P.S Happy New Year all you N Ohioians


----------



## hookbill

NFL Network is doing a spectacular job of promoting itself. Being on two networks and constantly reminding fans that it's available on cable. They even threw it in that first interview before the game. Very smart.


I've noticed some pixelation and some sound break up on WOIO. Very breifly though.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12625029
> 
> 
> As I've said before, NFL Network only does 2.0. Basically, NBC is presenting the same sound (although it doesn't seem as loud).
> 
> 
> Based on watching for a lengthy amount of time on each, my picture rankings are:
> 
> 
> 1. NFL Network
> 
> 2. WOIO
> 
> 3. WKYC
> 
> 
> I checked WOIO and WKYC both OTA and via Directv and didn't see any real difference. Otherwise, I'm wondering whether WKYC's subchannel takes up more bandwidth than WOIO's?



I agree with your PQ assessment. NFLN in MPEG4 on D* wins the race, with CBS (WOIO) a close second. NBC in third.


I haven't whipped out the TSReader tonight, but on past readings WOIO keeps WeatherNow at about 2Mbps fixed, thus their PQ stays relatively consistent. WKYC lets WeatherPlus do variable bit rate anywhere from 2Mbps to typically 4.5 Mbps to as much as 6Mbps. Also keep in mind the NBC Network has a bandwidth limitation at the network level, (I beleive it's a 25Mbps backhaul/fronthaul whatever you call it) so the local affiliate has less to work with when they re-encode it another time for delivery to the local viewers. I believe CBS backhaul/fronthauls their stuff at 45Mbps.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12625201
> 
> 
> NFL Network is doing a spectacular job of promoting itself. Being on two networks and constantly reminding fans that it's available on cable. They even threw it in that first interview before the game. Very smart.
> 
> 
> I've noticed some pixelation and some sound break up on WOIO. Very breifly though.



Maybe Time Warner will finally get a clue and add NFL Network.


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately, after tonight they don't have any real reason to rush to do it. There aren't any live games again until next November (except pre-season) and I'm not sure how many complaints they've received. After the Super Bowl, there isn't a lot of programming on the network that people would care about unless they are a hardcore football fan. The NFL definitely blinked by allowing the game to be shown tonight.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12619851
> 
> 
> nickdawg, on the List STO and FSO are starred under Time warner Cable, meaning they are part time HD channels (game only). I thought the first time I looked at it they were saying they didnt have it, but the list is correct!



Thanks stuart628. Folks, please take notice of the asterisk's and follow them to the bottom where I indicate disclaimers and notes relating to the "*". Only a full time dedicated channel will be counted in the HD list. (I did the same thing wtih D* and STO-HD). Also beware, with cable companies in particular, programing will vary based on where you live in NE Ohio.


Also, if anyone has another Time Warner NE Ohio HD Channel Link that I can replace the outdated one that I have currently, please share.....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12625029
> 
> 
> As I've said before, NFL Network only does 2.0. Basically, NBC is presenting the same sound (although it doesn't seem as loud).
> 
> 
> Based on watching for a lengthy amount of time on each, my picture rankings are:
> 
> 
> 1. NFL Network
> 
> 2. WOIO
> 
> 3. WKYC
> 
> 
> I checked WOIO and WKYC both OTA and via Directv and didn't see any real difference. Otherwise, I'm wondering whether WKYC's subchannel takes up more bandwidth than WOIO's?



I also agree with your assessment. NFL Network on D* is my preferred choice for the game.


Go Giants!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12618812
> 
> 
> Another mistake I noticed is FSN and STO HD are not listed under Time Warner. *WNEO-HD is also missing.* There's also two extra channels: Cinemax HD and Starz HD. Time Warner does not carry Cinemax HD or Starz HD.



Come on dude! This is a "Cleveland" HD List.







Akron's WNEO wasn't considered, however I did note Cleveland's PBS affiliate, WVIZ.......


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12625450
> 
> 
> Come on dude! This is a "Cleveland" HD List. Akron's WNEO wasn't considered, however I did note Cleveland's PBS affiliate, WVIZ.......



Technically it is the CLEVELAND-AKRON-CANTON market. Plus WNEO mops the floor with WVIZ. WNEO has 5.1 surround and a digital version of their SD broadcast on 45.2. WVIZ is 2.0 only plus it is impossible to get over the air.


Here is a link to TWC NE Ohio's main HD page:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...able/hdtv.html


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12625490
> 
> 
> Technically it is the CLEVELAND-AKRON-CANTON market. Plus WNEO mops the floor with WVIZ. WNEO has 5.1 surround and a digital version of their SD broadcast on 45.2. WVIZ is 2.0 only plus it is impossible to get over the air.
> 
> 
> Here is a link to TWC NE Ohio's main HD page:
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...able/hdtv.html



With all due respect, I'm not interested in which PBS affiliate is the better or which one is accessible through OTA. For the purpose of the list, I am simply noting that it has been reported that the majority of TW Cleveland customers will receive WVIZ PBS-HD (instead of WNEO) if a customer is to subscribe to TW's HD package.


----------



## solema

Hey All,

I hope I'm not asking a previously-answered question, but I couldn't find it anywhere, so here it is. Does anyone here have Time Warner Cable out of the Mentor hub that they use a Clear QAM tuner with, such as in all new LCD TV's? I had borrowed my parents' LCD HDTV a couple months back and it got all kinds of unencrypted QAM channels like ESPN, TNT, the locals, TBS, and even a few HBO and Starz stations.


Then about a month ago I got an HDHomeRun so I could tune those channels and record TV on my PC to watch while I work. I could only get the local channels and everything else was encrypted.


What I am trying to find out is, did Time Warner recently encrypt a bunch of QAM channels at the Mentor hub, or is my HDHomeRun not picking up as many channels as my parents' HDTV did? I don't have any other way to check with an HDTV right now or I would check myself.


Does anyone here get TNT or ESPN HD over QAM in the Mentor area?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12620388
> 
> 
> I've got a Vizio VX20L I bought refurb for a good price from newegg.com
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Only one problem with it - if the QAM signal is weak and on an HD channel (mostly on NBC or CBS I've noticed it) - the TV will pixelate as the signal fades, then blast a full volume burst of static through the speakers, then reboot itself. Scared the living hell out of me the first time it happened.













That's, uh, quite a glowing review!










Thanks for the feedback. It seems like there's quite a selection of these things now. It's been a few years since I've been shopping for a TV, and it looks like a lot of the smaller LCDs have QAM tuners.


The only problem is that I just happened to stop by Sound + Visions in Akron yesterday. They have the new 60" Pioneer Elite plasma set.... wow. Wonder if my wife would mind if I dropped $7 grand instead of a couple hundred bucks.







It sure would look nice in our newly finished basement, though. Maybe if I came home with both...


----------



## hookbill

FWIW I watched the rest of the game in my bedroom on my 19" LCD HDTV with no sound system on WKYC and I thought the pq there was excellent.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12627924
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's, uh, quite a glowing review!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. It seems like there's quite a selection of these things now. It's been a few years since I've been shopping for a TV, and it looks like a lot of the smaller LCDs have QAM tuners.
> 
> 
> The only problem is that I just happened to stop by Sound + Visions in Akron yesterday. They have the new 60" Pioneer Elite plasma set.... wow. Wonder if my wife would mind if I dropped $7 grand instead of a couple hundred bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It sure would look nice in our newly finished basement, though. Maybe if I came home with both...



I say we put this to a forum vote! I vote to BUY the Elite!


Back on topic: Just be careful of your viewing distance with the larger panels (lcd or plasma). The larger the display the further back you need to sit from it to render a decent picture, especially when viewing non-HD content.


----------



## Norm78

Did anyone else run into issues ordering UFC 79 from TW last evening? I ordered during the preview and it went to a black screen. I tried calling customer service, but it was a 52 minute wait so I hung up. Thankfully, the Pats Giants game was exciting or else I would have had a house of unhappy fight fans. Sounded like a great night of fights though.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12625758
> 
> 
> With all due respect, I'm not interested in which PBS affiliate is the better or which one is accessible through OTA. For the purpose of the list, I am simply noting that it has been reported that the majority of TW Cleveland customers will receive WVIZ PBS-HD (instead of WNEO) if a customer is to subscribe to TW's HD package.



Your list would be a greater service if you did include WNEO/WEAO. As noted above, for television purposes, Akron is a key part of the Cleveland TV market, and the close distance between the two areas means the stations serve the entire region. (FWIW, I'm in Akron area, and I'm just 20 air miles from the Parma antenna farm.)


I don't have your list handy, but for example, WBNX/55 is licensed to Akron, and is the Cleveland market's CW affiliate - complete with HD these days. Are you gonna drop them because they aren't licensed to Cleveland?










This forum/thread serves the entire market, and there are many of us south of the Turnpike. And for example, now that TWC serves pretty much the entire region, their channel lineups don't necessarily follow the county lines. I'm in Summit County, and the old Adelphia system drops down from Cuyahoga County...


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12628152
> 
> 
> 
> Back on topic: Just be careful of your viewing distance with the larger panels (lcd or plasma). The larger the display the further back you need to sit from it to render a decent picture, especially when viewing non-HD content.




I'd be about 10 feet back or so on the couch, but the room itself is about 22' long. I originally started looking at 52" LCD, but the 60" plasma caught my eye (in more ways than one). Anyway, it's all a pipe dream anyway. The budget is shot for quite a while now that the basement itself is done. I'll probably be stuck watching the 2" handheld sitting on that couch at least until next year when the analog signals shut off.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12628251
> 
> 
> Your list would be a greater service if you did include WNEO/WEAO. As noted above, for television purposes, Akron is a key part of the Cleveland TV market, and the close distance between the two areas means the stations serve the entire region. (FWIW, I'm in Akron area, and I'm just 20 air miles from the Parma antenna farm.)



For the sake of argument, I made a note of WNEO and WEAO as a possibility for your PBS-HD affiliate. I think the important thing to note is TW carries PBS-HD. Which affiliate you get depends on where you live. See updated list: HERE. 


My original intention was to create a list that shows HD offerings among the main local cable/satellite providers. As we all know and (I make specific notes in the list), it is especially difficult for the TW's HD Cable list to be perfectly accurate for every single customer as HD programing offered in each pocket in NE Ohio is different. I just figured that we needed to have one constant and that was using Cleveland and near surrounding suburbs as the source. Thus the inclusion of Cinemax- HD and Starz- HD even thought the Akron folks don't get them.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12628251
> 
> 
> I don't have your list handy, but for example, WBNX/55 is licensed to Akron, and is the Cleveland market's CW affiliate - complete with HD these days. Are you gonna drop them because they aren't licensed to Cleveland?



That's a ridiculous statement. Again, I use the channels offered in the area as a base to the list. If local Cleveland subscribers get the channel, it's on the list, regardless of where it's licensed.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12628251
> 
> 
> This forum/thread serves the entire market, and there are many of us south of the Turnpike. And for example, now that TWC serves pretty much the entire region, their channel lineups don't necessarily follow the county lines. I'm in Summit County, and the old Adelphia system drops down from Cuyahoga County...



That is my intention and I'm doing my best to provide as accurate HD list as possible, but as I stated earlier, I made notes in the list to make Akron folks aware of possible discrepancies in the list.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12629355
> 
> 
> I'd be about 10 feet back or so on the couch, but the room itself is about 22' long. I originally started looking at 52" LCD, but the 60" plasma caught my eye (in more ways than one). Anyway, it's all a pipe dream anyway. The budget is shot for quite a while now that the basement itself is done. I'll probably be stuck watching the 2" handheld sitting on that couch at least until next year when the analog signals shut off.



Oh no, once we start a forum vote process, THAT'S IT! The vote STANDS!







Just tell your wife "sorry honey, it was out of my control, there was nothing I could do". She'll understand.


I'm no HTR installer nor expert, but I'd be very hesitant to put a 60" panel (which would be AWSOME) less than 15 feet away as a viewing distance. Again, especially if viewing non-HD content. But I guess we'll all see how it looks at 10 feet when we are all over at your place for your Super Bowl party watching your new 60" panel!










note: any NO votes are NOT invited!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12629666
> 
> 
> Oh no, once we start a forum vote process, THAT'S IT! The vote STANDS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just tell your wife "sorry honey, it was out of my control, there was nothing I could do". She'll understand.
> 
> 
> I'm no HTR installer nor expert, but I'd be very hesitant to put a 60" panel (which would be AWSOME) less than 15 feet away as a viewing distance. Again, especially if viewing non-HD content. But I guess we'll all see how it looks at 10 feet when we are all over at your place for your Super Bowl party watching your new 60" panel!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> note: any NO votes are NOT invited!



I say go as big as money allows. With HD there is no such thing as "too close". I sit 10' away from a 92" and it is an awesome experience.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12629830
> 
> 
> I say go as big as money allows. With HD there is no such thing as "too close". I sit 10' away from a 92" and it is an awesome experience.



Of course HD MM doesn't mention the fact that he is legally blind. Or is it going to be legally blind?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12629854
> 
> 
> Of course HD MM doesn't mention the fact that he is legally blind. Or is it going to be legally blind?



I know your joking Hook, but my eyes aren't strained at all from this distance. Nor do I ever find myself having to turn my head to see any portion of the screen. The entire screen is well within my field of vision. Think a movie screen at a public theater only on a smaller scale. Same ratio of screen per seating distance. I must say, while not for everyone, this creates quite an immersion feeling on movies!


Now, I wouldn't recommend such a size for SD viewing. All of my HDM viewing is on the 92" proj, while my casual HD and very infrequent SD viewing is on my itty-bitty 42" plasma upstairs...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12629965
> 
> 
> I know your joking Hook.




I'm not joking. I'm jealous.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12629666
> 
> 
> But I guess we'll all see how it looks at 10 feet when we are all over at your place for your Super Bowl party watching your new 60" panel!



Y'all are welcome. I should let you know that it's a $1,000 cover charge, though.










I know this is a long ways off topic, but I thought I'd share anyway since it's at least marginally relevant. When we were out yesterday, my wife sat down in front of a 52" and said "I don't think it's big enough." The sales guy and I just grinned at each other.


----------



## jtscherne

There are so many lines that can be used in this situation, but I don't want to get myself thrown off the forum!


----------



## paule123

This Browns/49ers game on Fox looks pretty crappy from the 50 yard camera long shots.


Gawd, I hate 720p.


It will be nice to have most of our games in glorious 1080i on CBS next year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12630105
> 
> 
> This Browns/49ers game on Fox looks pretty crappy from the 50 yard camera long shots.
> 
> 
> Gawd, I hate 720p.
> 
> 
> It will be nice to have most of our games in glorious 1080i on CBS next year.



IF I ever get a real large screen HDTV I'm going to ask a couple of you guys to come with me, because for the life of me I cannot see the difference between 720p and 1080i.


I think CSI Miami is the best looking show on television (1080i) followed by Lost (720p).


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12630268
> 
> 
> IF I ever get a real large screen HDTV I'm going to ask a couple of you guys to come with me, because for the life of me I cannot see the difference between 720p and 1080i.
> 
> 
> I think CSI Miami is the best looking show on television (1080i) followed by Lost (720p).



The difference is in your display and or HD tuner. Apples to Apples it's almost indistinguishable to tell the difference between 720p and 1080i.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12630295
> 
> 
> The difference is in your display and or HD tuner. Apples to Apples it's almost indistinguishable to tell the difference between 720p and 1080i.



See, I've got a 30" CRT HDTV and even though the thing weighs a ton I absolutely love the picture.


Besides, it's not like I have to move it from place to place.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12630295
> 
> 
> Apples to Apples it's almost indistinguishable to tell the difference between 720p and 1080i.



Absolutely 100% not true when you get into larger displays. Heck I can see the difference on my 20" Vizio.


720p and 1080i are not "apples" to "apples" comparisons to begin with.


A 720p picture has about 1 million pixels per image, whereas 1080i has about 2 million pixels. To make an analogy to digital cameras, I'll take the 2 megapixel camera over the 1 megapixel camera every time.


Hook, yes, it's hard to see the difference when you're watching primetime dramas. It's just a different beast from sports where you're trying to discern fine detail on a bunch of small objects (players) from such a far distance (50 yard camera way up in the stands)


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12630380
> 
> 
> Absolutely 100% not true when you get into larger displays. Heck I can see the difference on my 20" Vizio.
> 
> 
> 720p and 1080i are not "apples" to "apples" comparisons to begin with.
> 
> 
> A 720p picture has about 1 million pixels per image, whereas 1080i has about 2 million pixels. To make an analogy to digital cameras, I'll take the 2 megapixel camera over the 1 megapixel camera every time.
> 
> 
> Hook, yes, it's hard to see the difference when you're watching primetime dramas. It's just a different beast from sports where you're trying to discern fine detail on a bunch of small objects (players) from such a far distance (50 yard camera way up in the stands)



Like I said it depends on your display and or tuner, but I quess you missed that part. I shouldn't have said A2A, that was the wrong terminology.


Right now, I am projecting a 9 foot screen (Epson HC400, 720p native).

On my Oppo dvd, I can not distinguish between 220p and 1080i. On my HD-A2 HD-DVD, I can not tell the dif between 1080i and 720p. On HD broadcasts through my PHD-205 via Warner QAM, I sometimes can see differences, but that could be the broadcast or TW, or cable line or whatever.


----------



## hookbill

Guys, this issue about 720p vs 1080i has been going on as I'm sure you know for a long time. It reminds me of Blu-Ray vs HD DVD and Beta vs VHS.


How the heck to VHS ever win that one?....Ah but I digrest.










I really think that the ones who can tell the difference are true videophiles. And that argument of 720p and 1080i is between them. I just can't distinguish. The NFL on FOX looks just as good to me as the NFL on CBS.


----------



## HD MM

Anyone else getting short audio dropouts during the commercials of the Brown's game on Fox 8.1? Only on the commercials does this happen and once the game comes on everything is fine. Very strange. Watching on D* btw....


OT: That holding call on the Josh Cribbs kickoff return was BS!










*Edit. I haven't noticed any more audio dropouts the last 5-6 commercial breaks following halftime. Apparently Fox has corrected the issue....


----------



## Smarty-pants

I am watching via QAM on TW and don't notice any dropouts, though I don't have it turned up high because my kids a napping.


Also, in case you haven't noticed, that is the THIRD BS call against Cleveland. One other was the unsportmanlike against Edwards. The third was helmet to helmet against SF QB... barely a grazing and totally unintentional.

REFs have it in for the Browns today for some reason. They are rising above it though.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Another bad call... offensive pass interference on Winslow. Even the commentators said it was tit-4-tat and could be called constantly in every game.


----------



## hookbill

No sound drop offs here.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12630763
> 
> 
> Guys, this issue about 720p vs 1080i has been going on as I'm sure you know for a long time. It reminds me of Blu-Ray vs HD DVD and Beta vs VHS.
> 
> 
> How the heck to VHS ever win that one?....Ah but I digrest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really think that the ones who can tell the difference are true videophiles. And that argument of 720p and 1080i is between them. I just can't distinguish. The NFL on FOX looks just as good to me as the NFL on CBS.



First the simple answer: VHS won the format war mostly due to one key deciding factor. Sony (Beta) refused to license their product to the porn industry. JVC (VHS) said "no problem, sign here".










Now, the more complicated (and very subjective) 720p vs 1080i answer: You, I and 95% of the consumers out there cannot see any discernible difference between 720p and 1080i at a normal viewing distance.


This is assuming you are comparing very similar or equal:

- source material

- screen size (see note below)

- technology (lcd, plasma)

- quality deinteracing (i to p, p to i)

- quality scaling (upconversion to 720 or 1080)

- quality panel / glass

- quality video processing (noise reduction, gamma, hue, color, etc...)


NOTE: staying around the 42" screen size (some would argue even up to 46", but I think that's pushing the limits a bit far). The larger screens make the 720p/1080i difference much more noticeable, preferring the 1080i.


Even video reviewers with far more keen eyes than you or I would generally agree.


----------



## Reaper0Bot0

W00t! I went from my 32" Insignia LCD to a 42" Panasonic plasma. The tuner must be a lot better. My analog stations come in cleaner (and yes, they look better due to the better display, but I'm talking signal first), and I've got Channel 19 (CBS) in HD now, which I did not have before.


Nice. Just cannot get channel 3 in HD to save my life.


----------



## JJkizak

The difference on my 46 XBR2 is small but the 1080i is sharper. Also CSI Miami is on film and the amount of film grain to me is annoying. I also cannot stand "angle head" and "tweety bird" and if I were in charge I would have fired the personnel obtainer of those people. Actually I consider CSI Miami "digital 16 x 9" as it is not in the high definition ballpark. The sharpness of the football games and live news totally blows away CSI Miami.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/12633115
> 
> 
> The difference on my 46 XBR2 is small but the 1080i is sharper. Also CSI Miami is on film and the amount of film grain to me is annoying. I also cannot stand "angle head" and "tweety bird" and if I were in charge I would have fired the personnel obtainer of those people. Actually I consider CSI Miami "digital 16 x 9" as it is not in the high definition ballpark. The sharpness of the football games and live news totally blows away CSI Miami.
> 
> JJK



That is comparing apples to oranges. When I said that CSI Miami is the best looking show on TV I was referring to prime time dramas, not sporting events.


I've never seen any grain and I know what that is. Your HD set must be so far superior then mine it's able to take a really decent picture and make it look like crap because it's just so detailed!


----------



## nippywiffle

I just recieve the non-encrypted channels in HD, through time warner, so wkyc, wviz, etc. I use mediaportal on my PC for this.


Until about 2 weeks ago, I also recieved TNT HD unencrypted, for whatever reason, but it seems to have disappeared. It is not telling me that it is now a scrambled channel, just "no audio/video".


I tried a re-scan, but didn't find it anywhere else.


I'm not saying I SHOULD have this channel, but if it is still out there, but moved to a different frequency, I'd like to re-add it.


Has anyone else noticed this, and does anyone know if it's still unencrypted on a different freq?


Thanks,

Dan


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nippywiffle* /forum/post/12640889
> 
> 
> I just recieve the non-encrypted channels in HD, through time warner, so wkyc, wviz, etc. I use mediaportal on my PC for this.
> 
> 
> Until about 2 weeks ago, I also recieved TNT HD unencrypted, for whatever reason, but it seems to have disappeared. It is not telling me that it is now a scrambled channel, just "no audio/video".
> 
> 
> I tried a re-scan, but didn't find it anywhere else.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying I SHOULD have this channel, but if it is still out there, but moved to a different frequency, I'd like to re-add it.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this, and does anyone know if it's still unencrypted on a different freq?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan



We'll need more information.

Cable company, and where you leave (what cable office).


If you had TNT unencrypted, it was probably a mistake.


----------



## HDTD

I heard from the Indians road production truck people that STO/WKYC are going all-HD in 2008.


Spring Training will be SD, but the plan is to be all HD for the season.


(sorry if this is old news)


----------



## nickdawg

Happy New Year everyone!!

















That's great news-Indians in HD in 2008! Let's hope this year brings more HD!!


----------



## nickdawg

Some changes to Time Warner I noticed flipping through the guide:


New Channels:

*NHL Network added to number 155

*"The N" added on channel 143 and 711


Court TV officially changed to "TruTV", still ID in the guide as Court TV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12644536
> 
> 
> Court TV officially changed to "TruTV", still ID in the guide as Court TV.



I was watching one of their "Most Dangerous" shows and saw that Trutv logo on the corner but then they were still saying court TV. Of course this was about a month old. Also those changes may be only in your area. In my area anything in the 700's is HD or a subchannel


----------



## Speedskater

It would be nice if the local stations control room operators would watch the sports program that they are playing before running the "SD" weather warning. Most of todays shows had convenient pauses in the action.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin Graf* /forum/post/12650731
> 
> 
> It would be nice if the local stations control room operators would watch the sports program that they are playing before running the "SD" weather warning. Most of todays shows had convenient pauses in the action.



There really shouldn't be ANY interruption in HD sports today. It's January in NE Ohio and it's snowing! Oh my god! The worlds gonna end! No, wait, snow is NORMAL for this time of year.


The one thing that cranks me is if 5 breaks into HD programming. They have the ability to overlay on HD programming. I see them ruin HD "Wheel" and "Jeopardy" with their crawl advertising Oprah and loto numbers. Plus, they put their own news crawl on over GMA.


This guy would be GREAT on Cleveland weather TV:






















http://youtube.com/watch?v=430cwalf5UE


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12650873
> 
> 
> This guy would be GREAT on Cleveland weather TV:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=430cwalf5UE



Are you kidding? I heard Channel 19 let him go after a week as he wasn't animated or controversial enough!


----------



## nickdawg

Thanks, ABC!!







Instead of doing the logical thing of joining "Just for Laughs" in progress and saving "according to Jim" for another day, ABC decided to show everything in its entirety---completely messing up the schedule. I can't record the only show I care about Boston Legal, because I don't know when it starts.


This makes me think of a great idea: DVRs should be capable of using PSIP information to make "real time" updates to the schedule, especially when sporting events are on. That way start/stop times could be adjusted.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12650873
> 
> 
> This guy would be GREAT on Cleveland weather TV:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=430cwalf5UE



Thankss nickdawg. Put a smile on my face before I go out and face that foot of snow that's out on my long drive way. And I live at the end of the cul de sac so it will be fun to see what the snow plowers did to me as well.


Oh and to reply to your comment, I was happy to see that my TiVo did not record any shows last night. That means I won't have any of those interruptions. I'm just now getting to the ones we had in early December. FWIW I have gone down without any effort from having over 70 shows on my TiVo at the start of December down to around 30. That means my 750 gb HD has gone from 3/4 full to 1/4 full.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/12644477
> 
> 
> I heard from the *Indians road production* truck people that STO/WKYC are going *all-HD in 2008.*
> 
> 
> Spring Training will be SD, but the plan is to be all HD for the season.
> 
> 
> (sorry if this is old news)



I have not heard this yet. If true, this is definitely great and welcomed news! Yet another huge step for STO! Has this been published yet? Do you have a link to confirm? (Not that I don't believe you, it's just the journalist in me







)


----------



## Rambozo

I can confirm that the following HD channels need to be added to the HD channel list for Uverse:


WGN9 HD (WGN HD)

THC HD (History Channel HD)

LMN HD (Lifetime Movie Network HD)

BTN HD (Big Ten HD)


If there is a better way for updates, please let me know!


----------



## jtscherne

Wow! That includes two channels that D* doesn't have! (WGN & Lifetime)


----------



## Smarty-pants

What IS the deal with U-verse anyway??

If everyone else is about the same price, and everyone else offers more HD content, not to mention the limitation of only being able to watch one HD channel at a time...

What exactly is supposed to attract customers to buy into U-verse??????????


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12644536
> 
> 
> Some changes to Time Warner I noticed flipping through the guide:
> 
> 
> New Channels:
> 
> *NHL Network added to number 155
> 
> *"The N" added on channel 143 and 711
> 
> 
> Court TV officially changed to "TruTV", still ID in the guide as Court TV.



I want to follow up on this, in my area NHL network is there but only if you pay for NHL package. The N network is also there and is available on channel 152. The guide shows Court TV now is TruTV in my area.


So no additional TW HD channels to report.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12655491
> 
> 
> What IS the deal with U-verse anyway??
> 
> If everyone else is about the same price, and everyone else offers more HD content, not to mention the limitation of only being able to watch one HD channel at a time...
> 
> What exactly is supposed to attract customers to buy into U-verse??????????



Well, for starters it's not TWC.










I have the U200 package, with internet for $59 (tv) + $20 (3.0/1.0 DSL). HDTV "tech package" is usually $10/mo additional, but I have it free for the first year. I had ATT DSL already, so it actually upgraded me to ride on the fiber sooner, and gave me more upload speeds. For what it offered, it's more affordable for the channels I wanted. I'm not interested in the premium channels, at least not right now.


The HD stream limitation is temporary, and not an issue with me usually, as I have only one HDTV, and rarely need to record an HD stream while watching one. It has come up though. The HD quality is a bit off, coming from clear QAM, but is also slated for improvement with an additional stream near mid-year or sooner.


I prefer Uverse compared to satellite, as I can't stand the look of those damn dishes on the front of the houses in our neighborhood. We live in a classic 100 yr old neighborhood, and they just spoil the charm, IMHO. TWC can just take their constant price increases and other issues and put them up their butts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12656131
> 
> 
> Well, for starters it's not TWC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer Uverse compared to satellite, as I can't stand the look of those damn dishes on the front of the houses in our neighborhood. We live in a classic 100 yr old neighborhood, and they just spoil the charm, IMHO. TWC can just take their constant price increases and other issues and put them up their butts.




So you prefer one of those attractive boxes that they place on some poor neighbors house?


----------



## Rambozo

I'll assume you are talking about the big VRAD boxes near the roads. ATT has actually been discreet around our area, placing them near common areas, deadzones and other hardware. They are less than attractive, but at least they aren't on every house!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12656131
> 
> 
> Well, for starters it's not TWC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have the U200 package, with internet for $59 (tv) + $20 (3.0/1.0 DSL). HDTV "tech package" is usually $10/mo additional, but I have it free for the first year. I had ATT DSL already, so it actually upgraded me to ride on the fiber sooner, and gave me more upload speeds. For what it offered, it's more affordable for the channels I wanted. I'm not interested in the premium channels, at least not right now.
> 
> 
> The HD stream limitation is temporary, and not an issue with me usually, as I have only one HDTV, and rarely need to record an HD stream while watching one. It has come up though. The HD quality is a bit off, coming from clear QAM, but is also slated for improvement with an additional stream near mid-year or sooner.
> 
> 
> I prefer Uverse compared to satellite, as I can't stand the look of those damn dishes on the front of the houses in our neighborhood. We live in a classic 100 yr old neighborhood, and they just spoil the charm, IMHO. TWC can just take their constant price increases and other issues and put them up their butts.



Thanks for the reply.

I have thought of giving U-verse consideration. I hate having to go through the pricing scemes. No one ever tells you what the REAL COST is until you get your first bill. (fees for boxes, install fees, taxes, taxes on fees, taxes for being alive, etc...)


One thing that does suck, is that by using AT&T as your internet provider, is that you have to keep that landline phone intact. Notice how they never put that in the "cost equation". Tack on another $30 for the landline, and now the monthly bill is MORE than anyone else







.

I have been trying to convince my wife that we should get rid of the landline for the past 2 years. We can just use our cell phones... another outrageous bill that we could get more use out of if we didn't have the landline. I think her biggest thing is everyone who calls our home will be inconvenienced by having to now call a different number now.

Oh ya, and there's those who will think that we must be having money trouble since we disconected our phone service. Ya, just because I don't want to flush $30 down the toilet every month then we must be destitute







.

That would be the deal killer for me I think. Now if they didn't charge for the landline (I don't care about phone service, I just don't want charged for the line), then I may be persuaded to try it.


What about start-up costs?? Do they charge you anything up front??


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12655435
> 
> 
> I can confirm that the following HD channels need to be added to the HD channel list for Uverse:
> 
> 
> WGN9 HD (WGN HD)
> 
> THC HD (History Channel HD)
> 
> LMN HD (Lifetime Movie Network HD)
> 
> BTN HD (Big Ten HD)



Thanks. Cleveland HD Channel List, Revision No. 31 is now updated. 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12655435
> 
> 
> If there is a better way for updates, please let me know!



PM-ing me or making note of any updates on this board is typically sufficient enough for me to update the spreadsheet. I typically stay on top of D* and E* updates as they are more well publicized than local TW, Wow! or U-Verse.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12655491
> 
> 
> What IS the deal with U-verse anyway??
> 
> If everyone else is about the same price, and everyone else offers more HD content, not to mention the limitation of *only being able to watch one HD channel at a time...*
> 
> What exactly is supposed to attract customers to buy into U-verse??????????



Yeah, that and only being able to record 1 HD program at a time makes this not even an option in my book....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12657236
> 
> 
> Yeah, that and only being able to record 1 HD program at a time makes this not even an option in my book....



They are promising to change that. I just don't like DSL, I had it in Cincinnati and it sucked.


----------



## nippywiffle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nippywiffle* /forum/post/12640889
> 
> 
> I just recieve the non-encrypted channels in HD, through time warner, so wkyc, wviz, etc. I use mediaportal on my PC for this.
> 
> 
> Until about 2 weeks ago, I also recieved TNT HD unencrypted, for whatever reason, but it seems to have disappeared. It is not telling me that it is now a scrambled channel, just "no audio/video".
> 
> 
> I tried a re-scan, but didn't find it anywhere else.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying I SHOULD have this channel, but if it is still out there, but moved to a different frequency, I'd like to re-add it.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this, and does anyone know if it's still unencrypted on a different freq?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/12641316
> 
> 
> We'll need more information.
> 
> Cable company, and where you leave (what cable office).
> 
> 
> If you had TNT unencrypted, it was probably a mistake.




I have time warner, basic broadcast package, in university heights, which I believe used to be adelphia. I think it comes under either cleveland heights, or beachwood.


I was just wondering if anyone else USED to have it, but then it disappeared for them recently. I know it was common for people to have this in the clear, because I've seen it listed in many places among the list of cleveland-area time warner Clear QAM HD channels, alongside the local channels.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drummersteve* /forum/post/12560523
> 
> 
> Damn....JUST realized that both satellite providers aren't offering my locals in HD. They're offering the locals, but only in SD. I'm guessing I'd have to nab an OTA antenna if I wanted to catch those in HD. Now I'm gonna have to rethink everything again...maybe the extra cash for Cox will be worth it.



You are better off going OTA for your locals anyway. I'm in Parma, the tower lights illuminate my back yard, additionally I get WKBN-DT out of Youngstown 24/7 and all the Akron/Canton digital stations - all OTA with no added compression!


With cable you are forced to get your SD locals (they say their "free" but in reality the price is built-in to the cable rates). With satellite (Dish Network in my case) the locals are optional. Since I got a better analog picture (let alone the digital signals) than the compressed signals the satellite delivers, I chose not to sub to the Cleveland locals (plus Dish cannot legally see the Youngstown stations I get OTA). With every Dish HD receiver, the ability to tune in OTA is built-in (however if you don't sub to the locals while you still can tune to them through the satellite tuner you won't get the guide data).


As far as how much true HD content is being offered that is still limited. No local station is HD 24/7. There are a few specialty channels that are true HD 24/7 (such as Discovery HD Theater) but not even the premiums are true HD 24/7. HD is still in it's infancy. For those of you that are old enough to remember, color TV was not 24/7 until the mid to late 60's (actually no station ran 24 hours in any mode back then).


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nippywiffle* /forum/post/12640889
> 
> 
> I just recieve the non-encrypted channels in HD, through time warner, so wkyc, wviz, etc. I use mediaportal on my PC for this.
> 
> 
> Until about 2 weeks ago, I also recieved TNT HD unencrypted, for whatever reason, but it seems to have disappeared. It is not telling me that it is now a scrambled channel, just "no audio/video".
> 
> 
> I tried a re-scan, but didn't find it anywhere else.
> 
> 
> I'm not saying I SHOULD have this channel, but if it is still out there, but moved to a different frequency, I'd like to re-add it.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed this, and does anyone know if it's still unencrypted on a different freq?



TNT-HD is still coming through unencrypted on T/W, just as it has all along. It's part of their basic HD package so they don't encrypt it. It's not an error on T/W's part, this is just as it is supposed to be. It comes in on channel 88, subchannel 2. They did move it around some over the summer, but it's been on this assignment for many months now.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12659717
> 
> 
> TNT-HD is still coming through unencrypted on T/W, just as it has all along. It's part of their basic HD package so they don't encrypt it. It's not an error on T/W's part, this is just as it is supposed to be. It comes in on channel 88, subchannel 2. They did move it around some over the summer, but it's been on this assignment for many months now.



I think he's saying he receives his HD via QAM. So therefore he would not receive any type of "HD package".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12659912
> 
> 
> I think he's saying he receives his HD via QAM. So therefore he would not receive any type of "HD package".



Jim is saying that it's unencrypted in his area. And from what he is saying it appears he is referring to a qam tuner since TW has no channel 88 sub channel 2. That's qam talk.


The point is as I've said many times all of these areas of TW are operated differently. That is why in the long run we won't get a lot of HD channels and we won't see SDV for some time.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12660382
> 
> 
> Jim is saying that it's unencrypted in his area. And from what he is saying it appears he is referring to a qam tuner since TW has no channel 88 sub channel 2. That's qam talk.



The "88" refers to the EIA channel number for a specific frequency. In this case, it refers to 606-612mhz. The channel assignment can carry analog or digital modulation. In the case of QAM modulation (commonly used in U.S. cable systems), the "-x" suffix refers to an individual program stream as a portion of a larger MPTS (multiple program transport stream) within that 6mhz slice of spectrum.


It's entirely possible that a frequency can carry a single QAM-modulated program with no "subchannel" assignment (i.e. channel 88) but part of the reason for using a dense modulation format such as QAM is to allow for multiple programs to be squeezed into a single 6mhz channel. The channel identifiers (88.x) are carried in a VCT (virtual channel table) within the MPEG transport stream. In the case of cable, the channel-ID table is called the CVCT (guess what the C stands for







) and for broadcast, it's called the TVCT (Terrestrial VCT).


----------



## hookbill

Well, as I said many times before I don't know diddly about QAM.










Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12661073
> 
> 
> Well, as I said many times before I don't know diddly about QAM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.



Don't feel bad, Hookbill. Nobody knows _everything_ about this stuff!


----------



## jtscherne

Watching Letterman last night (actually this morning via DVR!), I'm impressed by its great picture and spectacular sound. I watched it occasionally pre-strike, but it seemed even better today.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12659717
> 
> 
> TNT-HD is still coming through unencrypted on T/W, just as it has all along. It's part of their basic HD package so they don't encrypt it. It's not an error on T/W's part, this is just as it is supposed to be. It comes in on channel 88, subchannel 2. They did move it around some over the summer, but it's been on this assignment for many months now.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12660382
> 
> 
> Jim is saying that it's unencrypted in his area. And from what he is saying it appears he is referring to a qam tuner since TW has no channel 88 sub channel 2. That's qam talk.



I'm saying that I receive TNTHD via unencrypted QAM on T/W's channel 88 (subchannel 2) on both my Toshiba TV and the MyHD card in my HTPC. And I'm reasonably sure that the T/W lineup that is provided here in Chagrin Falls is the same as the one provided in University Heights. I realize that Akron, Canton, Youngstown markets may be different. Though frankly, if I lived in one of those areas and didn't receive TNTHD in the clear (or Discovery HD for that matter), I'd call and complain.


T/W has some HD channels in their basic lineup (locals, TNT, Discovery, their "Bonus" channel, etc.) that are not supposed to be encrypted (and, indeed, aren't encrypted here). They also have an "HD Tier" of channels that they charge extra for (ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Mojo, etc.) that ARE encrypted. I can receive those on my cable box, but not on the regular QAM tuners.


I think that Mr. Dan Nippywiffle should be able to receive TNTHD on his set.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12656728
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> 
> One thing that does suck, is that by using AT&T as your internet provider, is that you have to keep that landline phone intact. Notice how they never put that in the "cost equation". Tack on another $30 for the landline, and now the monthly bill is MORE than anyone else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> That would be the deal killer for me I think. Now if they didn't charge for the landline (I don't care about phone service, I just don't want charged for the line), then I may be persuaded to try it.
> 
> 
> What about start-up costs?? Do they charge you anything up front??



Your biggest issue right now is availability. It's just rolling out in Akron-proper, but has been available for most of the suburbs.


The landline concern is valid for standard ATT DSL, but not required for the VDSL that is part of Uverse. In fact, one of the dangling carrots is VOIP later this year. You can maintain the DSL only if you are not happy with the TV portion, you just lose the $5 package discount.


If/when you place an order, make sure you have all the "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed. They lay out all the fees and discounts up front.


I had a door-to-door rep come by before I even was notified from ATT via email running a canvass. I was able to get free installation (which ended up including a new copper run to the pole, and removal of the two ancient lines I had), CAT5 to the attic, the DVR plus up to 3 STBs (only took one for a future slingbox), new wireless gateway (mandatory, but don't have to run wifi), U200 with free HDTV for 12 months, 3.0/1.0 DSL, and the honor of having the installer at my house for 4 hours on a saturday.


Ok, that last one wasn't part of the package, but it did take that long by the time he was complete and we were go.


First month was free for trying. Everything for $79/mo for the next 12 months WITHOUT A CONTRACT. Unless I can swing a deal at the end, I will pay the $10 HD Tech charge.


If you understand the current limitations, and can be patient with the future upgrades like whole home DVR, additional HD and SD streams, PQ increasing, VOIP, etc. you can enjoy the service. If you can't accept the current issues, then stay away for a bit longer to watch it pan out.


[Disclaimer: I am just a satisfied customer, not a ATT shill. I may be easier to please than you may be.]


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Watching Letterman last night (actually this morning via DVR!), I'm impressed by its great picture and spectacular sound. I watched it occasionally pre-strike, but it seemed even better today.



The improvement in picture quality was probably due the addition of facial hair.


Ray


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12665643
> 
> 
> I realize that Akron, Canton, Youngstown markets may be different.



It's more than just the city: it's what office you're served from. Customers in southern Summit County are on a different system than those closer to Akron or in Stark County. The franchise was transferred to Time Warner only five or six years ago. The area has one or two community channels specific to this system and a slightly different lineup than the actual Canton or Akron systems.

If you're in an area that used to be served by another cable franchise, things are likely to be different.


It was sad: 10-12 years ago and up until mid-2002, cable internet was available a few miles north or a few miles south of my location.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12665643
> 
> 
> T/W has some HD channels in their basic lineup (locals, TNT, Discovery, their "Bonus" channel, etc.) that are not supposed to be encrypted



Not supposed to be encrypted according to whom? It's customary for providers to provide the locals unencrypted, but that's it. If TWC is to ever provide unencrypted digital channels besides the locals, they have to use filters that block those digital signals to lifeline and internet-only subscribers.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12665643
> 
> 
> I think that Mr. Dan Nippywiffle should be able to receive TNTHD on his set.



Barring temporary/accidental unencrypted signals, I can only get a few preview channels and the locals digitally. There was a period when HBO West, Showtime West, and InHD2 were unencrypted here. Interestingly, in situations where the cable box knows you don't subscribe to the channel but the channel is not encrypted, you can use the diagnostic menu to directly tune the stream.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12665643
> 
> 
> I'm saying that I receive TNTHD via unencrypted QAM on T/W's channel 88 (subchannel 2) on both my Toshiba TV and the MyHD card in my HTPC. And I'm reasonably sure that the T/W lineup that is provided here in Chagrin Falls is the same as the one provided in University Heights. I realize that Akron, Canton, Youngstown markets may be different. Though frankly, if I lived in one of those areas and didn't receive TNTHD in the clear (or Discovery HD for that matter), I'd call and complain
> 
> 
> T/W has some HD channels in their basic lineup (locals, TNT, Discovery, their "Bonus" channel, etc.) that are not supposed to be encrypted (and, indeed, aren't encrypted here). They also have an "HD Tier" of channels that they charge extra for (ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Mojo, etc.) that ARE encrypted. I can receive those on my cable box, but not on the regular QAM tuners.
> 
> 
> I think that Mr. Dan Nippywiffle should be able to receive TNTHD on his set.



Those channels ARE supposed to be encrypted. In about a year and a half, I've never had TNT-HD, Discovery HD or anything other than local required channels. I have had HBO and Showtime HD plus INHD "slip through" for a while, but that's it.


It seems that these channels would be encrypted, that way if people want them they have to pay for a HD box and DVR. They entice you with ABC and FOX HD and if you want more, you need to get their equipment.


The only thing I can see that has to be in the clear is the local channels since thye have to carry those and you can get them OTA.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12670579
> 
> 
> Those channels ARE supposed to be encrypted. In about a year and a half, I've never had TNT-HD, Discovery HD or anything other than local required channels. I have had HBO and Showtime HD plus INHD "slip through" for a while, but that's it.



But the earlier message is still correct for those of us who were on the old Adelphia system out of Cleveland. Adelphia basically only encrypted stuff that was on the extra HD Tier.


TNT-HD, the HD Bonus Channel (STO/FSN HD sports) and Discovery HD are all available, at least in the old Adelphia areas, at no extra charge - as are the HD locals - and are all in the clear on QAM.


It does appear to be, at least in the former Adelphia world, deliberate.


You're on the "legacy" TWC system out of Akron, right? It would appear that TWC still hasn't standardized this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12673576
> 
> 
> But the earlier message is still correct for those of us who were on the old Adelphia system out of Cleveland. Adelphia basically only encrypted stuff that was on the extra HD Tier.
> 
> 
> TNT-HD, the HD Bonus Channel (STO/FSN HD sports) and Discovery HD are all available, at least in the old Adelphia areas, at no extra charge - as are the HD locals - and are all in the clear on QAM.
> 
> 
> It does appear to be, at least in the former Adelphia world, deliberate.
> 
> 
> You're on the "legacy" TWC system out of Akron, right? It would appear that TWC still hasn't standardized this.



Exactly, which is what I was trying to say about how difficult it is for us to get a great deal of HD because they are having a real tough time getting us all on the same page.


Not only that, but the people who work at the Macedonia office are probably more willing to listen and help then people at the Concord office. It's like Adelphia had all these little companies with their own ideas on how things should work and TW still hasn't been able to break the mode.


----------



## nickdawg




----------



## clevemkt

Tired of watching TV? Here's the lastest from the FCC... 152 pages. I have to read it for work... you can skim it, but it is interesting.

WWW.FCC.GOV .. select

"Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television"


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/12679955
> 
> 
> Tired of watching TV? Here's the lastest from the FCC... 152 pages. I have to read it for work... you can skim it, but it is interesting.
> 
> WWW.FCC.GOV .. select
> 
> "Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television"



Couldn't you save us the drudgery of reading govt. mumbo-jumbo and just give us your Readers Digest version?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Couldn't you just save us the agony of having to read the Readers Digest verion and just give us the Cliff Notes version














?


----------



## Inundated

Oh, and about HD BONUS (798)...


If the stuff posted here is true, and STO does indeed go all HD (home and away) for the 2008 regular season, there will be far more Indians/Cavs scheduling conflicts than last year.


I hope TWC realizes this at some point, and splits the channel!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12680294
> 
> 
> Couldn't you just save us the agony of having to read the Readers Digest verion and just give us the Cliff Notes version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?



See, that's why it's good to have you around here. I wanted to respond but my response would of shall we say, not have been very tactfull. Not that I haven't done that before but I'm trying to improve.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12683021
> 
> 
> See, that's why it's good to have you around here. I wanted to respond but my response would of shall we say, not have been very tactfull. Not that I haven't done that before but I'm trying to improve.



Keeping up on those new years resolutions Hook?


----------



## nickdawg

Couldn't you save us the agony of reading the Cliffs Notes version and give us a two-minute recap video?


----------



## jtscherne

This isn't a "Cleveland" question, but I know there are people here who know more than me! Here's my question:


I just got a new AV Receiver (Yamaha HTR-6080). The unit has HDMI and Component inputs, as well as HDMI and Component outputs.


The key is this: my TV does not have an HDMI input.


The question: Is it worth inputting into the receiver via HDMI and outputing via component? My D* DVR, my Blu-Ray, and my HD-DVD units all have HDMI outputs so could be input into the receiver.


Thanks for any input!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12694804
> 
> 
> This isn't a "Cleveland" question, but I know there are people here who know more than me! Here's my question:
> 
> 
> I just got a new AV Receiver (Yamaha HTR-6080). The unit has HDMI and Component inputs, as well as HDMI and Component outputs.
> 
> 
> The key is this: my TV does not have an HDMI input.
> 
> 
> The question: Is it worth inputting into the receiver via HDMI and outputing via component? My D* DVR, my Blu-Ray, and my HD-DVD units all have HDMI outputs so could be input into the receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input!



I would say no. Because in the end you're still going from the receiver via component. So I don't see how that will improve your picture. I assume (don't you love that word?) that you are going to your receiver currently via optical or regular digital coaxial for your sound.


I notice you didn't mention if you're TV has DVI. You are aware I'm sure that you can go from HDMI to DVI. That would probably work well. But if it's just component to your tv then I wouldn't do it.


FWIW, I think the majority of people have a tough time seeing the difference between HDMI and component. I don't but I still use the HDMI. It's suppose to be better, after all.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12694804
> 
> 
> This isn't a "Cleveland" question, but I know there are people here who know more than me! Here's my question:
> 
> 
> I just got a new AV Receiver (Yamaha HTR-6080). The unit has HDMI and Component inputs, as well as HDMI and Component outputs.
> 
> 
> The key is this: my TV does not have an HDMI input.
> 
> 
> The question: Is it worth inputting into the receiver via HDMI and outputing via component? My D* DVR, my Blu-Ray, and my HD-DVD units all have HDMI outputs so could be input into the receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input!



In most cases AVR's do not support HDMI video input to any analog video output, including component. If it's HDMI video in it must be HDMI video out in almost all cases.


Your manual must have a "video signal flow" diagram that would show any such limitations. Most of these limitations are HDCP related.


Hookbill is correct, your only other option, more than likely, is HDMI to DVI.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Although with the high def players, you'll need to feed HDMI to the receiver so you are not short changed on the high rez audio codecs. I am not familiar with your receiver though and don't know if for sure that it's possible to do HDMI in and then component out. If you can though, that is how you need to do it.

I believe that you can do component out of the DVR, Blu-ray, and HD-DVD player with no problems at 720p/1080i (assuming you can't use 1080p do to the limitations of your tv). Although that is only for high def discs in the players. When playing SD DVDs in the high def players, it will only output 480p due to HDCP.

So then you are back to HDMI. So you probably nedd to just the the first scenario I mentioned. If you start putting come video to the tv, and some to the receiver, then you get into having to switch inputs on your tv AND on the receiver depending on what you are watching/listening to.

SO, it would probaly be best to try and put EVERYTHING into the receiver and just one component out from the receiver to your tv. (although this scenario could still limit SD DVD to 480p). The only real way around that is to have a dvd player, like the Oppo DV-970HD, that will upconvert SD-DVD to 720p/1080i via component.


The whole situation needs more explaning, and we need more info to know how to help you.

Without trying to be to rude, you should be asking this question in the proper forum. This really isn't the place to ask, and back and forth comments trying to help you will take this thread too far off track.

If you start a new thread in the proper forum, you will get lots of help I'm sure.

Good luck to you.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm reasonably intelligent, but I find most receiver manuals to be written in the most confusing form of English, but I'll look more carefully to see if it discusses digital vs. analog inputs/outputs.


Hook, yes, I use optical for audio. Unfortunately, my TV is an older HD set and doesn't have any digital inputs, so DVI and HDMI won't work.


Anyway, I don't think it's a big deal, because I'm satisfied with my picture so I'm not looking to upgrade the tv anytime soon.


Thanks!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12695219
> 
> 
> In most cases AVR's do not support HDMI video input to any analog video output, including component. If it's HDMI video in it must be HDMI video out in almost all cases.
> 
> 
> Your manual must have a "video signal flow" diagram that would show any such limitations. Most of these limitations are HDCP related.
> 
> 
> Hookbill is correct, your only other option, more than likely, is HDMI to DVI.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12695325
> 
> 
> Without trying to be to rude, you should be asking this question in the proper forum. This really isn't the place to ask, and back and forth comments trying to help you will take this thread too far off track.
> 
> If you start a new thread in the proper forum, you will get lots of help I'm sure.
> 
> Good luck to you.




Hey dude, without trying to be rude to you jtscherne is a respected member in this thread as are you. And since when do we not get off track here from time to time.


He even said at the top of his post he knew this was more or less off topic. He's just looking for a couple of answers from his bud's.


And why the heck did you have to take a pretty simple answer and turn it into rocket science.










Don't make me slap you again.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12695409
> 
> 
> Hey dude, without trying to be rude to you jtscherne is a respected member in this thread as are you. And since when do we not get off track here from time to time.
> 
> 
> He even said at the top of his post he knew this was more or less off topic. He's just looking for a couple of answers from his bud's.
> 
> 
> And why the heck did you have to take a pretty simple answer and turn it into rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't make me slap you again.



If you slap me again we're through. I'll leave and move back in with my mom and you can see what it feels like to make it on your own.


----------



## jtscherne

Since I started this whole thing, I guess I'll have to get between the two of you:


SLAP!!! Spread out, you mugs! SLAP!!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12695351
> 
> 
> I'm reasonably intelligent, but I find most receiver manuals to be written in the most confusing form of English, but I'll look more carefully to see if it discusses digital vs. analog inputs/outputs.
> 
> 
> Hook, yes, I use optical for audio. Unfortunately, my TV is an older HD set and doesn't have any digital inputs, so DVI and HDMI won't work.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I don't think it's a big deal, because I'm satisfied with my picture so I'm not looking to upgrade the tv anytime soon.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Being a huge Yamaha AVR fan (I'm on my third one) you shouldn't have to dig too far to find your answers in the AVR's manual. It's probably within the first 20 pages and should show a very simple graphic of both audio & video flow. I doubt Yamaha's top of the line RX-Z11 selling for $ 5,500.00 even allows HDMI video to analog video conversion.


On top of HDCP issues and legalities is the tremendous video processing requirements to accomplish this. It's possible, but pricey.










Yamaha's video processing (deinterlacing / upscaling) is mediocre at best. But for a low to mid level AVR it ain't bad.


Put me down for a couple of *smacks* too.


----------



## jtscherne

This is my first Yamaha and replaces an eight-year old Sony unit that cost twice as much, but wasn't as powerful. Overall, I'm sure I'll be very happy with it. It'll probably lead to eventual TV upgrading, but I think I can hold off for awhile! I watched a Blu-ray episode of Lost last night and was very impressed with the sound.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12695612
> 
> 
> Being a huge Yamaha AVR fan (I'm on my third one) you shouldn't have to dig too far to find your answers in the AVR's manual. It's probably within the first 20 pages and should show a very simple graphic of both audio & video flow. I doubt Yamaha's top of the line RX-Z11 selling for $ 5,500.00 even allows HDMI video to analog video conversion.
> 
> 
> Yamaha's video processing (deinterlacing / upscaling) is mediocre at best. But for a low to mid level AVR it ain't bad.


----------



## quern

Hello All:


I have been searching through this forum to find some information out from those of you who have switched from Time Warner Cable to AT&T's U-Verse. I have also been trying to find out what opinions are in regards to using a Tivo HD unit rather than the SA 8300HD that TWC provides. I'm hoping some of you can tell me if I'd be better off switching to U-verse or just purchasing a new Tivo HD unit.


To give you a bit of background to hopefully have you all provide some feedback to guide me..... I used to have DirecTv about 2 years ago, but then I got married and my wife doesn't want a dish on the house. So I switched to Adelphia/TWC and lost my beloved Replay TV 5040 for the 8300HD (so I could record in HD). I've been living with the poor interface on the 8300 now and simply know I can get better by switching. It hasn't been that bad, but lately I've been more and more frustrated with the poor video quality TWC is pushing (or maybe it's just the dvr). I also want as many HD channels as possible so I can enjoy them. So now I live in Mayfield Heights with a cable company that I feel is on the low end of quality. Heck, in the latest Consumers Reports TWC is pretty far down on the list. Now, I'd love to have FIOS but I have no idea when it will be available so I'm contemplating either switching to U-verse or purchasing a Tivo unit. I heard that one of the big problems with U-verse is that I can't watch one HD channel and record another HD channel at the same time. This is something that I do regularly and still want to be able to do. So can you all please let me know your thoughts? Should I jump ship and go to U-verse, or would simply purchasing a better HD DVR fix some of the crappy video that I get (i hate seeing the picture go to hell for 2-3 seconds).


Thanks in advance!


Jerry


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/12696153
> 
> 
> Hello All:
> 
> 
> I have been searching through this forum to find some information out from those of you who have switched from Time Warner Cable to AT&T's U-Verse. I have also been trying to find out what opinions are in regards to using a Tivo HD unit rather than the SA 8300HD that TWC provides. I'm hoping some of you can tell me if I'd be better off switching to U-verse or just purchasing a new Tivo HD unit.
> 
> 
> To give you a bit of background to hopefully have you all provide some feedback to guide me..... I used to have DirecTv about 2 years ago, but then I got married and my wife doesn't want a dish on the house. So I switched to Adelphia/TWC and lost my beloved Replay TV 5040 for the 8300HD (so I could record in HD). I've been living with the poor interface on the 8300 now and simply know I can get better by switching. It hasn't been that bad, but lately I've been more and more frustrated with the poor video quality TWC is pushing (or maybe it's just the dvr). I also want as many HD channels as possible so I can enjoy them. So now I live in Mayfield Heights with a cable company that I feel is on the low end of quality. Heck, in the latest Consumers Reports TWC is pretty far down on the list. Now, I'd love to have FIOS but I have no idea when it will be available so I'm contemplating either switching to U-verse or purchasing a Tivo unit. I heard that one of the big problems with U-verse is that I can't watch one HD channel and record another HD channel at the same time. This is something that I do regularly and still want to be able to do. So can you all please let me know your thoughts? Should I jump ship and go to U-verse, or would simply purchasing a better HD DVR fix some of the crappy video that I get (i hate seeing the picture go to hell for 2-3 seconds).
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> Jerry



I can answer some of your questions. First you are correct about U-Verse, you can only watch one HD channel at a time. They have promised to change this.


I don't live too far from you, I'm in Bainbridge so we probably have the same headend. I have a TiVo S3 and I had two years with the the SA 8300. Now as far as video quality goes I really can't put too much of a knock on the SA 8300. I think the S3 is better and probably the TiVo HD would be better. But anything you read in CR about TW quality couldn't have anything to do with picture quality (pq). The reason I say that is every TW outlet is different. Some use SDV. Ours doesn't and probably won't for a while. In any case TW delivers a good quality HD picture. Now if you're getting poor quality there could be a couple of reasons.


Let's start with the SA 8300. It's a real pos, if you had replay tv you know that it's interface is horrible. The problem with the SA 8300 seems to be that no two machines seem to be the same. Or at least they seem to behave differently for different customers even in the same area. There are people who swear the SA 8300 is great and never misses a recording. There are those who have used the passport softwear and they seem to think this works much better then SARA. Now they are pushing out the navigator software and I understand that basically it's pretty bad.


TiVo HD has a reputation for a good quality picture. I've never used it but I know that the TiVo S3, which is THX certified, not only delivers a better picture then the SA 8300 in HD it also delivers a better picture of digital channels. And if you are recording a program in analog you can choose what quality you want to record your program. These features are also available on the TiVo HD.


Besides that you can do alot more with the TiVo HD if you have a wireless network. Multiroom viewing is possible with 2 TiVo HD's, or you can use a regular TiVo however you cannot transfer HD programs to those. There is also podcast, the ability to play your music from your computer over the TiVo, TiVoCast, and if your hard drive gets full you can move them over to your computer. eSATA is available as well with TiVo HD but you have to use one that is "supported" by TiVo. With the S3 you can use any eSATA so if you want to use a 1tb eSATA you can. TiVo HD is 50gb max.


There is Amazon Unbox if you want to rent a movie, or buy. It will download directly to your TiVo.


Oh and don't forget you can also use the TiVo HD OTA if you want as well as cable.


I think U-Verse ties you in to AT&T and their land line phones which are expensive and their broadband internet which I think is no where near as good as Road Runner.


So if I were you I'd go with TiVo, and I'd spend the extra hundred bucks on an S3. It's worth it.


----------



## quern

hookbill:


Thank you for your response. I had thought about going with the S3 over the TivoHD due to the THX factor. Even though my system isn't a complete THX system I'm always looking for the best audio/video quality for the money.


----------



## stuart628

hookbill, I really dont remember your answer, but how is the tivo doing with SDV? will you be able to get all the HD channels?


edit 8:18 pm, Steelers game is on, and NBC is going out of focus, look kinda crappy to me right now!



edit #2 Hook, never mind I just read up on the usb dongle coming out, interesting stuff, hope they can get it out soon as Time warner seems to be wanting to push this SDV


----------



## jtscherne

Picture hasn't been so hot all night, but that's pretty much what I saw all year for football on WKYC.


The sound is pretty good though. I could actually hear some Pittsburgh fans insulting a Jacksonville player from my right rear speaker!


----------



## stuart628

I didnt think the washington game was bad at all, but I wasnt watching it all the time as My 5 month old was getting ready for bed, and we were playing...anyways NBC has always been hit or miss for me, its like they have 3-5 second periods of out of focus, and then other times ,it looks pretty good!


----------



## nickdawg

NBC/WKYC does that sometimes. I've seen it on other NBC shows and even on WKYC News. The picture gets blurry between shots soemtimes and on fast-moving video. Still not as bad as WOIO, which gets blurry and macroblocks on some fast-moving video(like the opening credits of CSI New York or Miami).


----------



## stuart628

do we think its a bit rate issue, or something else they are doing? I have seen alot of pixelation.


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12696700
> 
> 
> I can answer some of your questions. First you are correct about U-Verse, you can only watch one HD channel at a time. They have promised to change this.
> 
> 
> I don't live too far from you, I'm in Bainbridge so we probably have the same headend. I have a TiVo S3 and I had two years with the the SA 8300. Now as far as video quality goes I really can't put too much of a knock on the SA 8300. I think the S3 is better and probably the TiVo HD would be better. But anything you read in CR about TW quality couldn't have anything to do with picture quality (pq). The reason I say that is every TW outlet is different. Some use SDV. Ours doesn't and probably won't for a while. In any case TW delivers a good quality HD picture. Now if you're getting poor quality there could be a couple of reasons.
> 
> 
> Let's start with the SA 8300. It's a real pos, if you had replay tv you know that it's interface is horrible. The problem with the SA 8300 seems to be that no two machines seem to be the same. Or at least they seem to behave differently for different customers even in the same area. There are people who swear the SA 8300 is great and never misses a recording. There are those who have used the passport softwear and they seem to think this works much better then SARA. Now they are pushing out the navigator software and I understand that basically it's pretty bad.
> 
> 
> TiVo HD has a reputation for a good quality picture. I've never used it but I know that the TiVo S3, which is THX certified, not only delivers a better picture then the SA 8300 in HD it also delivers a better picture of digital channels. And if you are recording a program in analog you can choose what quality you want to record your program. These features are also available on the TiVo HD.
> 
> 
> Besides that you can do alot more with the TiVo HD if you have a wireless network. Multiroom viewing is possible with 2 TiVo HD's, or you can use a regular TiVo however you cannot transfer HD programs to those. There is also podcast, the ability to play your music from your computer over the TiVo, TiVoCast, and if your hard drive gets full you can move them over to your computer. eSATA is available as well with TiVo HD but you have to use one that is "supported" by TiVo. With the S3 you can use any eSATA so if you want to use a 1tb eSATA you can. TiVo HD is 50gb max.
> 
> 
> There is Amazon Unbox if you want to rent a movie, or buy. It will download directly to your TiVo.
> 
> 
> Oh and don't forget you can also use the TiVo HD OTA if you want as well as cable.
> 
> 
> I think U-Verse ties you in to AT&T and their land line phones which are expensive and their broadband internet which I think is no where near as good as Road Runner.
> 
> 
> So if I were you I'd go with TiVo, and I'd spend the extra hundred bucks on an S3. It's worth it.





Thanks!!


I raised the exact same issue exactly 100 posts ago (12/29) but must have worded it poorly cuz absolutely no one addressed it or tried to answer it.







(I don't think I pissed anyone off cuz I haven't been on this thread for awhile)







...oh well. Thanks again. I now know I'm gonna go get an S3 and gladly hand my SA8300HD (upgraded from 8000HD) back to WOW. I'll be an all-Tivo household. Do I get the cablecard from WOW? Are they gonna ask me to buy one? Rent one?


NBC's Steelers game makes me feel like I'm on drugs, with all the fading in and out of focus.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12700924
> 
> 
> do we think its a bit rate issue, or something else they are doing? I have seen alot of pixelation.



At WKYC or WOIO? Or both? The one thing WOIO and WKYC have in common is they both have DT-2 subchannels. WOIO seems to be affected worse than WKYC. I have heard that WKYC lowers bandwidth on 3.2 during sporting events. Not sure about 19.2, but I remember the CBS Browns this year and how bad that was.


----------



## nippywiffle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12665643
> 
> 
> I'm saying that I receive TNTHD via unencrypted QAM on T/W's channel 88 (subchannel 2) on both my Toshiba TV and the MyHD card in my HTPC. And I'm reasonably sure that the T/W lineup that is provided here in Chagrin Falls is the same as the one provided in University Heights. I realize that Akron, Canton, Youngstown markets may be different. Though frankly, if I lived in one of those areas and didn't receive TNTHD in the clear (or Discovery HD for that matter), I'd call and complain.
> 
> 
> T/W has some HD channels in their basic lineup (locals, TNT, Discovery, their "Bonus" channel, etc.) that are not supposed to be encrypted (and, indeed, aren't encrypted here). They also have an "HD Tier" of channels that they charge extra for (ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Mojo, etc.) that ARE encrypted. I can receive those on my cable box, but not on the regular QAM tuners.
> 
> 
> I think that Mr. Dan Nippywiffle should be able to receive TNTHD on his set.




Thank's for the info Jim. I'll check channel 88 for TNT again.

Can you tell me what the channel/subchannel/frequency of Discovery HD and the bonus HD channel are?


Thanks again,

Dan.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12699878
> 
> 
> edit #2 Hook, never mind I just read up on the usb dongle coming out, interesting stuff, hope they can get it out soon as Time warner seems to be wanting to push this SDV




Just an FYI on that. Here's the deal on SDV. Yes, TW is pushing it and they have to as D* is adding so many channels, useless though they may be. Nevertheless, the general public looks at this and says, "Hey, I want as much HD as I can get." I know this because I signed up for TW's upper tier HD without hesitation.


Then you have to look at how much of this is actually watched. Probably much less then you think and most of the D* channels, while they may be "HD" labeled don't have that much real HD content. This includes stations like TBS, TNT who use a great deal of Stretch o vision.


Still, as I said TW is going to push SDV because the public won't think all of this out, they will just see how many HD channels they can get. Now we get to the joys of living here in N.E. Ohio, the land where nobody ever wins. And we won't this time, at least at TW.


I predict that the very last area that will go TW is right here in N.E. Ohio. I thought about this two years ago before the "dongle" or whatever you want to call it was even thought of. I've explained the reason many times but if you haven't read any of my thoughts on this it's quite simple. TW took over not only Adelphia, who's headends were never on the same page but also Comcast. Take a look at the different line ups by zip code. A great deal of the stations are the same but some are totally different. So the first thing they have to do is get us all on the same page. This is not going to be easy.


You see after speaking to a supervisor in the Macedonia office not only did Adelphia not attempt to get their line ups on the same page, the level of what customer service should be changes from each area. Macedonia would put customer service as a top priority. Cable Cards for TiVo were looked at by the technician supervisor and discussed with their leadmen so they new how to do an install. The supervisor even went to TiVo's web site and downloaded the install instructions.


Then my neighborhood was moved from Macedonia to the Concord office. I spoke with the Macedonia supervisor and he told me that I would see a difference in philosophy and he was absolutely right. Techs not willing to learn. No training on cable card install. Attitude. The whole 9 yards.


And that's just Adelphia. Who knows what's going on with the Comcast acquisition but from what I read old Comcast people are not happy with TW.


So even with all the ambition to crank out SDV to TW ASAP, here in Northeast Ohio we will be the very last to see it. And truthfully for those of us who own either a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD that will be to our benefit in the fact that the dongle, or USB device should be readily available by that time.


I think the next time this comes up I'll just link this post. It really says it all.


----------



## nickdawg

Come on down to Hookbill's Electronics Emporium. This weekend all Tivos on sale!! S2, S3 HD TIVOS TIVOS TIVOS Saturday and Sunday only! Prices so low you'll think you're stealing them!


(I couldn' t resist! The last few posts sounded like a advertisement for Tivo>)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ted_b* /forum/post/12701083
> 
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> 
> Do I get the cablecard from WOW? Are they gonna ask me to buy one? Rent one?
> 
> 
> NBC's Steelers game makes me feel like I'm on drugs, with all the fading in and out of focus.




The cable cards are issued by the cable companies. Prices vary, but if I recall WOW was pretty reasonable. It is a monthly charge, probably 4 bucks. Keep in mind you do have to pay for TiVo service but most everyone in their price analysis says it's actually cheaper then paying for the DVR. I never quite understood how that worked but I will say my bill went down about 20 bucks a month on the cable.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LL3HD* /forum/post/12700963
> 
> *A rose by any other name would smell as sweet*
> 
> 
> Would it?
> 
> 
> Cisco is killing the Scientific Atlanta brand.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/05/c...atlanta-brand/



Cisco, the owners of Scientific Atlanta, are killing off the SA brand and going with Cisco instead. Woner how this will affect cable products down the road? Should be interesting...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12701581
> 
> 
> Come on down to Hookbill's Electronics Emporium. This weekend all Tivos on sale!! S2, S3 HD TIVOS TIVOS TIVOS Saturday and Sunday only! Prices so low you'll think you're stealing them!
> 
> 
> (I couldn' t resist! The last few posts sounded like a advertisement for Tivo>)



Yeah and you know I've never got a single referral point.


Hey I like quality and you know I don't really think that AT&T's service won't be pretty good some day. IMHO FIOS seems real sweet.


But for those of us who are old enough to remember, AT&T screwed us in so many ways and never once kissed us. The old story, a leopard doesn't change it's spots. And landline service? Toll calls? Long Distance charges? Heck, you're better of with a wireless service. Or Vonage.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12701672
> 
> 
> Yeah and you know I've never got a single referral point.
> 
> 
> Hey I like quality and you know I don't really think that AT&T's service won't be pretty good some day. IMHO FIOS seems real sweet.
> 
> 
> But for those of us who are old enough to remember, AT&T screwed us in so many ways and never once kissed us. The old story, a leopard doesn't change it's spots. And landline service? Toll calls? Long Distance charges? Heck, you're better of with a wireless service. Or Vonage.



As much as you talk up Tivo here, you should get a free year or something. If or when we get "Navigatored", I'm thinking about S3 or D*.


When I first heard about AT&T I was excited. Record four shows at once, more HD. But then the downside, you can only watch one HD stream.(Is that one HD stream per house or per box?) I have AT&T for internet now and I'm satisfied, but I'm not willing to be the first to jump into something new like Uverse. I don't even think it's in my area yet, but I'll wait to hear what others have to say. I hope a forum opens here soon.


----------



## paule123

This is the AVS U-Verse thread, not very active though:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...700011&page=28 


A better place to get info is www.uverseusers.com , but most of the people there don't seem to be the same sort of HD perfectionist videophiles we have here.










Hook - ATT does not require a landline phone for UVerse - but I guess that's a common misconception since they used to be the phone company, then they weren't a phone company, and then they became a phone company again, or something like that....


----------



## stuart628

uverseusers, is good, just needs to pick up memebers who care, you ask a question adn it will sit there for a week


----------



## Inundated

Hey, I tweak hookbill about a lot of stuff, but he's right about TiVo... if you're used to TiVo, just about any "cable DVR" looks like it's a Fisher-Price toy. I still have my SA8000 here, but will eventually pick up a TiVo HD...and my non-HD S2 is still humming away in the bedroom.


And speaking of AT&T's history...back to the Ohio Bell days, I remember when it cost over 30 CENTS PER MINUTE to call Cleveland from Akron! Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure AT&T's landline service still charges per minute to call as close as 12 miles away, though I suppose it's dropped from that price...and you can buy "unlimited LD" from them now...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12696700
> 
> 
> Besides that you can do alot more with the TiVo HD if you have a wireless network. Multiroom viewing is possible with 2 TiVo HD's, or you can use a regular TiVo however you cannot transfer HD programs to those. There is also podcast, the ability to play your music from your computer over the TiVo, TiVoCast, and if your hard drive gets full you can move them over to your computer. eSATA is available as well with TiVo HD but you have to use one that is "supported" by TiVo. With the S3 you can use any eSATA so if you want to use a 1tb eSATA you can. TiVo HD is 50gb max.



Sorry Hook, but I just have to point out two minor goofs in this statement...










1 - You don't need a *wireless* network - stringing an ethernet cable to the TiVo will work as well. (That's what I did.)


2 - The max eSATA drive size on the HD is 500g, not 50g. I wouldn't be surprised if that increases later - 500 is just the biggest drive available right now.


I dumped my SA8300HD a few months ago and went with the TiVo HD, and haven't looked back since. I routinely transfer shows between the HD and one of my computers - stuff I want to save gets sent to the computer for storage, and I can watch it there or pull it back to the HD at a later time.


I'm sure you'd be happy with either the S3 or the HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12703287
> 
> 
> Sorry Hook, but I just have to point out two minor goofs in this statement...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 - You don't need a *wireless* network - stringing an ethernet cable to the TiVo will work as well. (That's what I did.)
> 
> 
> 2 - The max eSATA drive size on the HD is 500g, not 50g. I wouldn't be surprised if that increases later - 500 is just the biggest drive available right now.
> 
> 
> I dumped my SA8300HD a few months ago and went with the TiVo HD, and haven't looked back since. I routinely transfer shows between the HD and one of my computers - stuff I want to save gets sent to the computer for storage, and I can watch it there or pull it back to the HD at a later time.
> 
> 
> I'm sure you'd be happy with either the S3 or the HD.



Well, if I said 50g that was a typo. I meant 500. And you are correct, ethernet connection works just fine. I do forget about that frequently.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12703212
> 
> 
> And speaking of AT&T's history...back to the Ohio Bell days, I remember when it cost over 30 CENTS PER MINUTE to call Cleveland from Akron! Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure AT&T's landline service still charges per minute to call as close as 12 miles away, though I suppose it's dropped from that price...and you can buy "unlimited LD" from them now...



First for Paule123 if you don't need landline service to get u-verse I apologize. Somebody else somewhere factored that in and it made sense to me. Of course that has nothing to do with Inundated.










Now to his statement. While they may have a choice for "unlimited LD" I'll be the cost isn't that cheap. And the last time I saw "unlimited LD" it still didn't include calls that were "out of the local" calling range, in other words message units.


I was in the hospital at Marymount which is in AT&T territory. I couldn't call my wife from my bedside phone and she works in Streetsboro! That was an "out of area call." Marymount is I believe in Garfield Heights! That was like two months ago. If AT&T has some type of "free" program for "out of area" calls I can't see how that would get by any accountants head, specially when they are trying so hard to save money in hospitals.


----------



## hookbill

OK, I'm going off topic here and I think you will see why.


My best friend, LeRoy Cannefax and I have been friends for 44 years. I met him when I was 11.


On Tuesday he will go in for a final consultation with his doctor before he has surgery to remove cancer from his throat. His surgery is on January 15th.


He worked for a company called International Rectifier for 22 years. He was making a 6 figure salary. They canned him on 11/30, right during the time he was being diagnosed. He had an idea this was coming but he thought he was good at least until the end of the year.


The good news in all of this is his girl friend married him last week so he can continue to get health care insurance.


I'm not a religious man but this guy is my brother. I always say how we are all friends on this thread. If you would say a prayer for him, I'd sure appreciate it.


There is a blog page his son set up for him. If you'd like, leave a message and tell him hookbill sent you. He knows my internet nickname well.


Thanks for reading. Now back to your regular HD programming.....


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12705345
> 
> 
> OK, I'm going off topic here and I think you will see why.
> 
> 
> My best friend, LeRoy Cannefax and I have been friends for 44 years. I met him when I was 11.
> 
> 
> On Tuesday he will go in for a final consultation with his doctor before he has surgery to remove cancer from his throat. His surgery is on January 15th.
> 
> 
> He worked for a company called International Rectifier for 22 years. He was making a 6 figure salary. They canned him on 11/30, right during the time he was being diagnosed. He had an idea this was coming but he thought he was good at least until the end of the year.
> 
> 
> The good news in all of this is his girl friend married him last week so he can continue to get health care insurance.
> 
> 
> I'm not a religious man but this guy is my brother. I always say how we are all friends on this thread. If you would say a prayer for him, I'd sure appreciate it.
> 
> 
> There is a blog page his son set up for him. If you'd like, leave a message and tell him hookbill sent you. He knows my internet nickname well.
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading. Now back to your regular HD programming.....



Sorry to hear about your friend. Our thoughts will be with you.

I hope they had a good reason for terminating him







. Otherwise, when he beats out this cancer, he should be able to sue their pants off.


----------



## JJkizak

International Rectifier used poly-byphenols in all of their rectifier stacks. Don't know what they use now. (same stuff in large electric transformers)

RCA blew them away with smaller solid state dry type rectifiers.

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12705231
> 
> 
> Now to his statement. While they may have a choice for "unlimited LD" I'll be the cost isn't that cheap. And the last time I saw "unlimited LD" it still didn't include calls that were "out of the local" calling range, in other words message units.



It's been about 2 or 3 years since I had an AT&T landline - now I solely have Vonage and a cell phone. But I seem to recall that they offer "unlimited nationwide calling" for roughly $30 extra...which, by the way, is more than I'm paying for my entire Vonage service, which has that, and much more (unlimited calling to much of Europe, 1c/minute rates for most of the rest of the major industrialized western countries, etc.).


I have no idea if that "unlimited LD" included calls within the local LATA. If it didn't, there's no way I'd consider a landline.


But it's good to hear that U-verse, if I were ever to consider it, doesn't need the active landline. There are many other reasons I wouldn't go back to AT&T even for that, so it's kind of a moot point...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12705345
> 
> 
> I'm not a religious man but this guy is my brother. I always say how we are all friends on this thread. If you would say a prayer for him, I'd sure appreciate it.



Done, my friend.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12706537
> 
> 
> It's been about 2 or 3 years since I had an AT&T landline - now I solely have Vonage and a cell phone. But I seem to recall that they offer "unlimited nationwide calling" for roughly $30 extra...which, by the way, is more than I'm paying for my entire Vonage service, which has that, and much more (unlimited calling to much of Europe, 1c/minute rates for most of the rest of the major industrialized western countries, etc.).
> 
> 
> I have no idea if that "unlimited LD" included calls within the local LATA. If it didn't, there's no way I'd consider a landline.
> 
> 
> But it's good to hear that U-verse, if I were ever to consider it, doesn't need the active landline. There are many other reasons I wouldn't go back to AT&T even for that, so it's kind of a moot point...



Inundated, how has your luck been with Vonage? I am considering canning the landline for a VOIP solution and I hear that Vonage's financial issues has been affecting service lately...


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ok, with this U-verse/landline deal...

Isn't part of the attraction to U-Verse that you get a "package" price??

What is included is the CABLE *AND* the DSL! Are you guys trying to say that I DO NOT need a landline for my DSL???

OR, are you just commenting on the fact that you can get the CABLE without the DSL, and for THAT, you do not need a landline. Please clarify.

Thanks


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12705345
> 
> 
> I'm not a religious man but this guy is my brother. I always say how we are all friends on this thread. If you would say a prayer for him, I'd sure appreciate it.



Sending positive healing thoughts for your friend and his family, Hookbill.


Also, the next time I need to buy a compoinent of the type made by International Rectifier, I will reconsider my choice.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/12706841
> 
> 
> Inundated, how has your luck been with Vonage? I am considering canning the landline for a VOIP solution and I hear that Vonage's financial issues has been affecting service lately...



Vonage had a problem for the first time in two years of service about 2 weeks ago. It didn't affect everyone but it did effect many. I was one.


They fixed it in less then 12 hours on my side. For some it took longer. I doubt if this has anything to do with financial issues. It seemed to be something that was related to an ice storm in their area.


The Vonage financial issues have been talked about forever. It's kind of like TiVo, who is always also going out of business every day.










I love Vonage. I pay 14.95 plus a few extra bucks for the usual government crap that they've managed to sneak into. I think it's about 19.00 a month and I get 500 outgoing calls. Incoming doesn't count. 800 numbers don't count. I've never even came close to going over the 500 mark.


The other package is 24.95 plus so figure 30 bucks. That's unlimited. Inundated has been using Vonage longer then I have and he's happy with it as well.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12707825
> 
> 
> :
> 
> I love Vonage. I pay 14.95 plus a few extra bucks for the usual government crap that they've managed to sneak into. I think it's about 19.00 a month and I get 500 outgoing calls. Incoming doesn't count. 800 numbers don't count. I've never even came close to going over the 500 mark.
> 
> 
> The other package is 24.95 plus so figure 30 bucks. That's unlimited. Inundated has been using Vonage longer then I have and he's happy with it as well.



I don't have Vonage, but I do use the WOW voip service, they all seem to be priced comparably. 25.00 mo (plus fu**ing taxes) keep your phone number, unlimited local & LD, vm, caller ID, call waiting, forwarding, etc... 12.00 mo for a second line with all same features as line 1 except you must be assigned a number on line 2. Service has been excellent, but a couple minor issues here and their like hook stated.


One thing to be careful of is if you run a business out of your home (as I do) or have any need to receive or send actual faxes (not efax type stuff) then the actual modem used for voip becomes *very* important. The older voip modems could not establish a "handshake" with another modem (i.e. fax). The newer ones can handshake without issue. Just an FYI.










There is a new service out there that is the next "evolution" in voip technology that looks interesting. It involves putting a USB device on your computer then your phone line plugs into the USB device. The device is 40.00 including first year "service contract", second year and thereafter is only 20.00 per year "service contract". But, as it stands now, this is still a *glichy* service, fewer phone features, won't do faxes, and is financially unstable as a business model. A similar service and business model has been tried before and failed. Hopefully this (or something like it) will survive, improve and prosper! A $ 20.00 a year phone bill would be AOK with me!










Though, the other draw back is having to have your computer up & running 24/7 to have phone service.


----------



## SteveC

A guy I work with recently had U-Verse installed. He sent me the following e-mail with the details and cost of what he got:


1) U-verse TV $ 69

3 receivers, one which has the DVR - which records up to 4 different programs at the same time

so in general all 3 can watch whatever they want.

the exception as he explained it was there are 4 inbound streams of TV,

of which only 1 is HD. so if i had (i don't) 2 different HD tv's,

they have to watch the same channel IF they are accessing HD channels. he said they expect to provide

multiple inbound HD streams later in 2008.

from the web site for -verse, i can even tell it to turn on my DVR and program something,

so if i am away, and forget, i can just get to the internet, logon, and tell it back here to record it.

that's pretty slick.


this is the level called 200, which has 190+ channels, and the HD, which was $10 of the total $69


2) u-verse Broadband - i selected the 6meg highest available

this is $40, and they provide the 2wire router that handles 4 ethernet connections and is also a wireless router.

as of now, i have 6 pc's connected to it. 2 wireless and 4 wired.


3) bundle both as I did, and you get $10 off; so my cost was $99 for

190 channels

full HD

6 meg internet with wireless router


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/12708502
> 
> 
> A guy I work with recently had U-Verse installed. He sent me the following e-mail with the details and cost of what he got:
> 
> 
> 1) U-verse TV $ 69
> 
> 3 receivers, one which has the DVR - which records up to 4 different programs at the same time
> 
> so in general all 3 can watch whatever they want.
> 
> the exception as he explained it was there are 4 inbound streams of TV,
> 
> of which only 1 is HD. so if i had (i don't) 2 different HD tv's,
> 
> they have to watch the same channel IF they are accessing HD channels. he said they expect to provide
> 
> multiple inbound HD streams later in 2008.
> 
> from the web site for -verse, i can even tell it to turn on my DVR and program something,
> 
> so if i am away, and forget, i can just get to the internet, logon, and tell it back here to record it.
> 
> that's pretty slick.
> 
> 
> this is the level called 200, which has 190+ channels, and the HD, which was $10 of the total $69
> 
> 
> 2) u-verse Broadband - i selected the 6meg highest available
> 
> this is $40, and they provide the 2wire router that handles 4 ethernet connections and is also a wireless router.
> 
> as of now, i have 6 pc's connected to it. 2 wireless and 4 wired.
> 
> 
> 3) bundle both as I did, and you get $10 off; so my cost was $99 for
> 
> 190 channels
> 
> full HD
> 
> 6 meg internet with wireless router



...but does the broadband internet require that you use their/any landline phone connection???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12708841
> 
> 
> ...but does the broadband internet require that you use their/any landline phone connection???



Yeah. What he said.










Actually it may not now that I think about it. I mean in the sense that you wouldn't need a telephone hooked up.


When I had broadband we had a line for the phone and a seperate line for the broadband. But back then we paid full phone line price.


Maybe that's what he means.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nippywiffle* /forum/post/12701393
> 
> 
> Thank's for the info Jim. I'll check channel 88 for TNT again. Can you tell me what the channel/subchannel/frequency of Discovery HD and the bonus HD channel are?



Here are the config parameters from my MyHD card:


;MyHD Channel Data File

;Macro Image Technology


;****************************

[INPUT1]

count = 10



[INPUT1 No. 1]

Name = Weather+

PhyCH = 103

VirCH = 715

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 10

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 10

Sourceid = 1184


[INPUT1 No. 2]

Name = T/W Bonus HD

PhyCH = 106

VirCH = 780

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 1

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 1

Sourceid = 1368


[INPUT1 No. 3]

Name = WKYC-HD

PhyCH = 104

VirCH = 3

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 3

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 3

Sourceid = 47


[INPUT1 No. 4]

Name = WEWS HD

PhyCH = 105

VirCH = 5

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 1

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 5

Sourceid = 30


[INPUT1 No. 5]

Name = WJW HD

PhyCH = 105

VirCH = 8

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 8

Sourceid = 31


[INPUT1 No. 6]

Name = WOIO-HD

PhyCH = 113

VirCH = 19

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 2

Sourceid = 32


[INPUT1 No. 7]

Name = WVIZ-HD

PhyCH = 113

VirCH = 25

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 1

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 1

Sourceid = 34


[INPUT1 No. 8]

Name = WUAB-DT

PhyCH = 104

VirCH = 43

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 4

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 6

Sourceid = 44


[INPUT1 No. 9]

Name = DSCHD

PhyCH = 86

VirCH = 776

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 3

Sourceid = 1776


[INPUT1 No. 10]

Name = TNTHD

PhyCH = 88

VirCH = 779

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 3

Sourceid = 1779


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12708875
> 
> 
> Yeah. What he said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it may not now that I think about it. I mean in the sense that you wouldn't need a telephone hooked up.
> 
> 
> When I had broadband we had a line for the phone and a seperate line for the broadband. But back then we paid full phone line price.
> 
> 
> Maybe that's what he means.



AT&T actually has pretty decent deals on "naked" DSL, or DSL without the phone...

Link: http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=10850


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/12709674
> 
> 
> AT&T actually has pretty decent deals on "naked" DSL, or DSL without the phone...
> 
> Link: http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=10850



WOW! Thanks. That is definately new. Just about 6 months ago they told me that I could not use my DSL without a landline.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12708841
> 
> 
> ...but does the broadband internet require that you use their/any landline phone connection???



No, it does not require a landline phone connection. I think people are confused because for UVerse, ATT does indeed install copper wire to your house, but this copper carries a VDSL signal (25 Mbps I think). 6Mbps of that is allocated to your internet. If you order video service, the rest of that VDSL gets allocated to video. When they offer "phone" service via UVerse, it will be a VOIP product, and that will take a few kilobits of the VDSL bandwidth.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/12709674
> 
> 
> AT&T actually has pretty decent deals on "naked" DSL, or DSL without the phone...
> 
> Link: http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=10850



One thing to keep in mind with ATT's traditional DSL is the "up to 6Mbps" part. I used to have their 3Mbps package, but due to the old wiring plant in this part of Shaker Heights, I was never able to get more than 2Mbps out of it.


At least with cable internet, if you buy a 6Mbps package, you'll get 6Mbps (as long as all the kiddies in the neighborhood aren't all downloading movies at the same time







)


Of course, you could get U-Verse internet which is all new wiring and a different network, so you should get the full 6Mbps that they offer.


----------



## hookbill

I just checked my speed. Using Road Runners "fastest" I came in at 6.3kbs download and 3mb upload.


It seems to me that I recall it being faster with Adelphia.










Edit: Checked it at the Vonage site and that came in what I'm use to seeing, 7.3 down and 8kbs up.


----------



## Inundated

If you have TWC's Roadrunner Turbo, it should now be 15 MBps. I found that out when I was being billed for something that the CSR thought was Turbo, but wasn't.










I haven't done speed tests in a while, but I haven't seen it that high in actual practice in recent weeks.


I am happy with Vonage, though I'll warn that I don't use my line a lot. If there was a problem recently, I missed it. I've encountered very few problems over the years, going back to the days when it was Earthlink Unlimited Voice - Earthlink used to be a Vonage reseller, but now does their own.


When Earthlink and Vonage "broke up" so Earthlink could do "TrueVoice", I kept the line and they transferred my account to Vonage.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12709811
> 
> 
> WOW! Thanks. That is definately new. Just about 6 months ago they told me that I could not use my DSL without a landline.



I'm curious if that offer is available in Northeast Ohio. There's no indication on the linked page that is geographically specific.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12711355
> 
> 
> If you have TWC's Roadrunner Turbo, it should now be 15 MBps. I found that out when I was being billed for something that the CSR thought was Turbo, but wasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't done speed tests in a while, but I haven't seen it that high in actual practice in recent weeks.
> 
> 
> I am happy with Vonage, though I'll warn that I don't use my line a lot. If there was a problem recently, I missed it. I've encountered very few problems over the years, going back to the days when it was Earthlink Unlimited Voice - Earthlink used to be a Vonage reseller, but now does their own.
> 
> 
> When Earthlink and Vonage "broke up" so Earthlink could do "TrueVoice", I kept the line and they transferred my account to Vonage.



RoadRunner disclaimer:


*Triple the speed of DSL claim is based on Road Runner's standard maximum download speed of 7.0 Mbps versus the standard DSL package's maximum download speed of 1.5 Mbps. Dial-up speed comparisons are based on Road Runner's maximum download speed of 7.0 Mbps versus the average of a 28k and 56k modems' maximum download speeds. Actual speeds may vary.


**Up to 15.0 Mbps is based on the speed from the local facility to your cable modem. Actual throughput speeds may vary. Not available in all areas.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12711364
> 
> 
> I'm curious if that offer is available in Northeast Ohio. There's no indication on the linked page that is geographically specific.



You'll know when it's available when you see them putting a big box in front of some poor bastards house in your neighborhood. Hope it isn't me.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12711439
> 
> 
> You'll know when it's available when you see them putting a big box in front of some poor bastards house in your neighborhood. Hope it isn't me.



The DSL offer that was mentioned was for "conventional" DSL, not U-Verse internet, so no big ugly box is required. But the problem is you are subject to the distance limitations of standard DSL from your phone company central office.


I beleive ATT lost a lawsuit in the BellSouth territory they took over, and that's why they are offering "naked" DSL now. I had assumed the naked DSL was only available in BellSouth territory, but maybe not...


----------



## Inundated

I think we're all messed up here, and I'm sorry if I confused folks.


The "offer" I was talking about was the webpage linked to the "naked DSL" offer from AT&T ("without phone line"). It doesn't appear to be linked to U-verse.


I do actually have a big U-verse box here, down at the end of my development. It looks only slightly larger, and whiter, than the old green AT&T junction box just across the street...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill from the TWC disclaimer* /forum/post/12711422
> 
> 
> **Up to 15.0 Mbps is based on the speed from the local facility to your cable modem. Actual throughput speeds may vary. Not available in all areas.



Yeah, I figure that.










For a while, I was struggling to get 2 MBps in any speed test. I just tried tonight, and I'm pushing over 8 MBps at least at one location, so I'm not gonna worry about it.


----------



## andrew312

Hi all, new to the forums. Just had a quick question regarding ota hd in the little italy area. I checked antennaweb and a few other sources, but I'm just wondering what to expect with an amplified indoor/outdoor terk antenna. I have a window facing southwest (towards the towers) and i'll mount the antenna either inside or outside the window facing in that direction. Roof/attic mount is not an option as I am renting the apartment. Thanks in advance for any help, as I'm new to ota hd and could use the advice.

Thanks


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12705177
> 
> 
> Well, if I said 50g that was a typo. I meant 500. And you are correct, ethernet connection works just fine. I do forget about that frequently.



I kinda figured it was a typo - just wanted to set the record straight!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrew312* /forum/post/12716016
> 
> 
> Hi all, new to the forums. Just had a quick question regarding ota hd in the little italy area. I checked antennaweb and a few other sources, but I'm just wondering what to expect with an amplified indoor/outdoor terk antenna. I have a window facing southwest (towards the towers) and i'll mount the antenna either inside or outside the window facing in that direction. Roof/attic mount is not an option as I am renting the apartment. Thanks in advance for any help, as I'm new to ota hd and could use the advice.
> 
> Thanks



Try the Terk and return it if you are unable to get the stations you desire. Keep in mind that WVIZ (25-PBS) has a very weak signal and that WOIO (19-CBS) has their tower in Shaker Heights. Both of these may be difficult to pick up with an indoor antenna facing SW. But then you are so close to Shaker you may well get WOIO.


Let us know how it worked out for you.


----------



## HD MM

Anyone out there experiencing any issues with TWC's Roadrunner Internet Service? For some reason I haven't been able to make a connection since Saturday night!







This is the fist time in 2 years that I've had any issues. The only thing I can think of is that there might be some access water in the lines due to all the snow melting over the weekend.


Do any of you have suggestions or checks before I am forced to deal with TW's CSR's and service people?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/12708502
> 
> 
> A guy I work with recently had U-Verse installed. He sent me the following e-mail with the details and cost of what he got:
> 
> 
> 1) U-verse TV $ 69
> 
> 3 receivers, one which has the DVR - which records up to 4 different programs at the same time
> 
> so in general all 3 can watch whatever they want.
> 
> the exception as he explained it was there are 4 inbound streams of TV,
> 
> of which only 1 is HD. so if i had (i don't) 2 different HD tv's,
> 
> they have to watch the same channel IF they are accessing HD channels. he said they expect to provide
> 
> multiple inbound HD streams later in 2008.
> 
> from the web site for -verse, i can even tell it to turn on my DVR and program something,
> 
> so if i am away, and forget, i can just get to the internet, logon, and tell it back here to record it.
> 
> that's pretty slick.
> 
> 
> this is the level called 200, which has 190+ channels, and the HD, which was $10 of the total $69
> 
> 
> 2) u-verse Broadband - i selected the 6meg highest available
> 
> this is $40, and they provide the 2wire router that handles 4 ethernet connections and is also a wireless router.
> 
> as of now, i have 6 pc's connected to it. 2 wireless and 4 wired.
> 
> 
> 3) bundle both as I did, and you get $10 off; so my cost was $99 for
> 
> 190 channels
> 
> full HD
> 
> 6 meg internet with wireless router



The important thing to be noted is that while u-Verse is capable of recording 4 channels at the same time, 3 of the 4 will be SD. For a majority of us, being able to record 3 SD channels (what's the point?) and only 1 HD channel is not that big of a deal. Does anyone even watch SD anymore?







Now if they were capable of recording 4 HD streams at once, then I'd be impressed....


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12718078
> 
> 
> Anyone out there experiencing any issues with TWC's Roadrunner Internet Service? For some reason I haven't been able to make a connection since Saturday night!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the fist time in 2 years that I've had any issues. The only thing I can think of is that there might be some access water in the lines due to all the snow melting over the weekend.
> 
> 
> Do any of you have suggestions or checks before I am forced to deal with TW's CSR's and service people?



HD MM: You seem 100 times more tech savvy than I, but I'll give you my "Morons Guide to Internet Troubleshooting" that usually works for me (read: tech moron).


Step 1: unplug the power on any router(s) on your network

Step 2: unplug the power on your RR modem (it probably has a battery backup so unplugging won't work, in which case press RESET button for a good 30 seconds)

Step 3: wait for RR modem to completely re-cycle back on

Step 4: plug router back in, allow re-cycle

Step 5: try getting internet connection

Step 6: if no go call TW tech support










Your suspicion of water in the lines is quite possible. That was the cause of my voip service problems a few posts ago. But about twice per year I have problems connecting via my cable modem and the above steps fix it every time.


GOOD LUCK!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12694804
> 
> 
> This isn't a "Cleveland" question, but I know there are people here who know more than me! Here's my question:
> 
> 
> I just got a new AV Receiver (Yamaha HTR-6080). The unit has HDMI and Component inputs, as well as HDMI and Component outputs.
> 
> 
> The key is this: my TV does not have an HDMI input.
> 
> 
> The question: Is it worth inputting into the receiver via HDMI and outputing via component? My D* DVR, my Blu-Ray, and my HD-DVD units all have HDMI outputs so could be input into the receiver.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input!



A lot of the newer advanced AVR's can output digital (HDMI out of TV), and input analog (component from Blu/DVR/HD-DVD into receiver). However, as far as I know it can't be done the other way around as you're describing. Obviously, the most common and simple way of connection is HDMI in, HDMI out. Until you get a new TV, I would just get an HDMI to DVI adapter.


Do you know if this receiver is capable of passing any of the next gen audio formats via HDMI instead of your current digital optical audio connection? If so, this would also be the ideal AV connection from your BD/HD-DVD players to the receiver in order to get Dolby True HD, Muilti Channel PCM, DD+ and DTS-MA.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, they built a whole new set over on the CBS Early Show and didn't spring for HD!







Get with this century CBS! Not a surprise the Early Show is last place.


----------



## Rambozo

Regarding the Uverse misinformation here:
You do NOT need a landline with VDSL.
While not as active/noisy as it is here, Uverseusers is more active than "a week to get a question answered" if the question can be answered. ATT also has a more "offical" forum at utalk.att.com but uverseusers is more technical. Many of the same participants.
Additional HD streams are coming, but it is an issue currently if you frequently watch/record multiple HD channels at once.
HD limitation IS for the whole house.
Whole Home DVR is on it's way as well - watch a DVR recording from any STB in the house.
You can cancel out the TV portion if you just want the better DSL.
The DVR is not a Tivo, or even close to what Hookbill likes







but it does the job.

The service does have it's limitations, but for the money it's a good deal if you can live with these early limitations. They are improving the service each quarter.


Disclaimer: Still not a ATT shill, and still a satisfied customer.


----------



## stuart628

not to start an argument here, BUT your post sounds like you are getting mouthy...first off Hookbill stated he wasnt 100% sure about the whole phoneline ordeal and it already has been figured out!


#2 here is a thread :just as an example of a questions I asked in november

http://www.uverseusers.com/component.../topic,2051.0/ 


no answer from anyone, not even a guess

also in the ohio forum you have 2 active threads (answered today by YOU) two neutral threads answered yesterday, 3 dyin/dead threads answered between the 2nd and 4th, and then threads that are completely dead....It takes a while for a question to get answered...Also I never said it was a bad place, just takes awhile to get info, I understand the Uverse thing is new.


#3 and #4 Yes that is a big limitation, this is avsforum, who here watches just one HD channel at a time? that is blasphmey










again, sounded like you were getting snippy, if you werent please disregard my post all together, but Trust me no one is Spreading FUD here.


----------



## Rambozo

Not getting snippy or mouthy, just trying to clear the air of some assumptions and guesses. Z'all good.


As far as the landline, I answered that one mid page 367 , yet it was repetitively speculated on.


The question that you asked at uverseusers isn't really answerable, at least not without guessing. From what I've read, if you see a VRAD within a half mile, then odds are it's coming - especially if your phone provider is ATT. Unfortunately, hard dates and official confirmations never happen on that board or anywhere else. Hell, I got a knock on the door a week before I received my requested Uverse alert email from ATT!


----------



## stuart628

alright then we are friends again







....actually I would love to see ATT get past the one HD stream perhouse, but for me, it still wouldnt work I dont think as we have 4 HDTV's in the house, and let me ask you this, does it just auto switch you to the SD (recording and all) if the hD stream is in use?


----------



## stuart628

Just on a seperate note, Satelliteguys website is covering the CES and has learned that Dish network plans on putting up cleveland locals in HD, and according to Dish's on press release its happening SOON!

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-net...expand-hd.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12718078
> 
> 
> Anyone out there experiencing any issues with TWC's Roadrunner Internet Service? For some reason I haven't been able to make a connection since Saturday night!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the fist time in 2 years that I've had any issues. The only thing I can think of is that there might be some access water in the lines due to all the snow melting over the weekend.
> 
> 
> Do any of you have suggestions or checks before I am forced to deal with TW's CSR's and service people?



Toby10 gave you some great info but I got to say that dealing with the people on the internet side vs the cable side is apples and oranges. I remember having a problem a while back and they did something over to phone to fix it. But the csr said "you know, I'm seeing some readings that don't look right. Can I send a truck out? This really needs to be looked at."


When the tech arrived he knew exactly what the problem was from the report the CSR gave him and went downstairs and fixed it. Even though everything looked fine on my side, they can see things to make sure your internet is running correctly.


I wouldn't hesitate to call TW CSR'S on internet issues.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrew312* /forum/post/12716016
> 
> 
> Hi all, new to the forums. Just had a quick question regarding ota hd in the little italy area. I checked antennaweb and a few other sources, but I'm just wondering what to expect with an amplified indoor/outdoor terk antenna. I have a window facing southwest (towards the towers) and i'll mount the antenna either inside or outside the window facing in that direction. Roof/attic mount is not an option as I am renting the apartment. Thanks in advance for any help, as I'm new to ota hd and could use the advice.
> 
> Thanks



Hi Andrew,


The biggest issue with OTA HD is multipath interference. A weak signal with no multipath will work much better than a very strong signal with significant multipath interference! From where you are in Little Italy, you're skimming across a lot of rooftops and shooting between some tall buildings. My personal suspicion is that you'll need something highly directional.


----------



## beaver2672

Anyone watching the game on WWJW-DT? I'm watching OTA in Medina. Looks a lot better then Armstrong 108 HD. I like the cable-cam.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12724634
> 
> 
> alright then we are friends again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....actually I would love to see ATT get past the one HD stream perhouse, but for me, it still wouldnt work I dont think as we have 4 HDTV's in the house, and let me ask you this, does it just auto switch you to the SD (recording and all) if the hD stream is in use?



Don't have much experience in this, as we are a one TV household right now. You can watch the same stream on all HDTVs or watch an HD recording on the DVR while it's recording another. If the HD stream is in use on another tv, you get the option to preempt them or watch the SD stream.


Yeah, it sucks at times. April 08 supposedly is the target for another HD stream, at least here in Akron.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12726867
> 
> 
> When the tech arrived he knew exactly what the problem was from the report the CSR gave him and went downstairs and fixed it. Even though everything looked fine on my side, they can see things to make sure your internet is running correctly.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to call TW CSR'S on internet issues.



I've been wondering for a long time if TWC has some sort of rating system that identifies "problem customers" and assigns smarter/better techs to them. When I switched to digital cable many years ago, I had a long streak of problems - had TWC techs out here every 2-3 months to fix whatever the current problem was. As things progressed, I noticed that the techs were smarter as time went on. The last guy out here (I wish I got his name) about two years ago came out to replace a dead RR modem, and spent an additional three hours tweaking the signal levels to my two digital STB's and my non-STB 50" in the basement - he didn't like what he saw, and took measures to make things work the way they should. (He even found it funny when my dog decided to grab a few coax connectors out of his parts bag as chew toys.)


I'm sure these guys are hard to come by, but if you complain enough, you might just get a service tech who knows what he's doing....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12726867
> 
> 
> Toby10 gave you some great info but I got to say that dealing with the people on the internet side vs the cable side is apples and oranges. I remember having a problem a while back and they did something over to phone to fix it. But the csr said "you know, I'm seeing some readings that don't look right. Can I send a truck out? This really needs to be looked at."
> 
> 
> When the tech arrived he knew exactly what the problem was from the report the CSR gave him and went downstairs and fixed it. Even though everything looked fine on my side, they can see things to make sure your internet is running correctly.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to call TW CSR'S on internet issues.



Thank you Hook and Toby10 for the helpful advice. I finagled with my modem and router after work yesterday and fixed the issue, whatever it was. All is good now...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12717987
> 
> 
> Try the Terk and return it if you are unable to get the stations you desire. Keep in mind that WVIZ (25-PBS) has a very weak signal and that WOIO (19-CBS) has their tower in Shaker Heights. Both of these may be difficult to pick up with an indoor antenna facing SW. But then you are so close to Shaker you may well get WOIO.
> 
> 
> Let us know how it worked out for you.



WOIO doesn't have their tower in Shaker Heights, do they? Antennaweb.org says their transmitter is out in Parma with everybody else.


I've always been curious why WOIO has "Shaker Heights" in their station bug, when their main street address is in downtown Cleveland ?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12734624
> 
> 
> WOIO doesn't have their tower in Shaker Heights, do they? Antennaweb.org says their transmitter is out in Parma with everybody else.
> 
> 
> I've always been curious why WOIO has "Shaker Heights" in their station bug, when their main street address is in downtown Cleveland ?



Yeah, you are probably correct. I know I've read many posts on the weak WOIO signal (not unlike WKYC) and have experienced the same. I always saw Shaker pop up on AntennaWeb.org for WOIO and just attributed that extra distance too it's weak signal.


Once I start reading anything with UHF/VHF or *degrees* of angle I'm lost.










Thank GOD for AntennaWeb.org giving us those arrows!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ok, need a little input from anyone willing...


RE: the OSU game last night and the broadcast sound.

My A/V setups have been in dissaray for a while now, usually watching tv in the living room (no surround sound), and where we do have surround sound (in the theater), is where we watch movies.

So, for a while now, I have not been able to take advantage of watching tv in surround. Now that my theater is coming together more, I had some friends over to watch the game.

I was thinking that it would be in glorious surround sound.

Most everyone I know, pretty much has no clue regarding these things, so they were no help.

When I set my Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver to "auto" surround, all I would get is stereo. I eventually ended up puting it on some DSP artificial surround which was ok, but not great.

Was the game actually broadcast in surround?? Is there anything I can check out on tv that definately does have surround so that I may check my equipment to make sure that it is working properly?

BTW, I'm watching on Warner via a QAM signal in Canton.


Thanks for any input.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12734991
> 
> 
> Ok, need a little input from anyone willing...
> 
> 
> RE: the OSU game last night and the broadcast sound.
> 
> My A/V setups have been in dissaray for a while now, usually watching tv in the living room (no surround sound), and where we do have surround sound (in the theater), is where we watch movies.
> 
> So, for a while now, I have not been able to take advantage of watching tv in surround. Now that my theater is coming together more, I had some friends over to watch the game.
> 
> I was thinking that it would be in glorious surround sound.
> 
> Most everyone I know, pretty much has no clue regarding these things, so they were no help.
> 
> When I set my Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver to "auto" surround, all I would get is stereo. I eventually ended up puting it on some DSP artificial surround which was ok, but not great.
> 
> Was the game actually broadcast in surround?? Is there anything I can check out on tv that definately does have surround so that I may check my equipment to make sure that it is working properly?
> 
> BTW, I'm watching on Warner via a QAM signal in Canton.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input.



Sure sounds (no pun intended) like you have your Pio set up properly. If the Pio is set to "auto detect" then it should probably be displaying either DD or PLII for tv surround decoding. A lot of the tv (ota, cable, sat) is pretty weak with surround and I have found this especially true with sports where most of the rear surround is just background noise (crowd cheering, stadium announcements, snow blowers







)


As far as testing, try flipping through some channels and watch the Pio's front screen. You should see it change now and then from DD to PLII as it auto detects the different audio feeds (DD = 5.1, PLII = 2.0 re-mixed to 5.1). If your Pio has a graphical representation of your speakers it will also show 5.1 speakers for DD and just two speakers for PLII.


You should definitely get more surround "punch" on your digital movie channels. Also try testing with DVD input for better surround rear testing.


Obviously some of the above info will be slightly different if you are running a 7.1 or greater system.


----------



## Rambozo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12734991
> 
> 
> I was thinking that it would be in glorious surround sound.
> 
> Most everyone I know, pretty much has no clue regarding these things, so they were no help.
> 
> When I set my Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver to "auto" surround, all I would get is stereo. I eventually ended up puting it on some DSP artificial surround which was ok, but not great.
> 
> Thanks for any input.



Sometimes it's best to start with the easy stuff...


How do you have the sound routed from the TV? DTS and Dolby Digital will only go via Toslink, Digital Coax, and HDMI (if the outputting device allows it.) If you are using analog audio, then at best you can pull out Dolby PLII or similar. If the stereo separation isn't great (like a broadcast) you may have little in the rear channels.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12734991
> 
> 
> Ok, need a little input from anyone willing...
> 
> 
> RE: the OSU game last night and the broadcast sound.
> 
> My A/V setups have been in dissaray for a while now, usually watching tv in the living room (no surround sound), and where we do have surround sound (in the theater), is where we watch movies.
> 
> So, for a while now, I have not been able to take advantage of watching tv in surround. Now that my theater is coming together more, I had some friends over to watch the game.
> 
> I was thinking that it would be in glorious surround sound.
> 
> Most everyone I know, pretty much has no clue regarding these things, so they were no help.
> 
> When I set my Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver to "auto" surround, all I would get is stereo. I eventually ended up putting it on some DSP artificial surround which was ok, but not great.
> *Was the game actually broadcast in surround??* Is there anything I can check out on tv that definitely does have surround so that I may check my equipment to make sure that it is working properly?
> 
> BTW, I'm watching on Warner via a QAM signal in Canton.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input.



The game was indeed broadcast in 5.1 Dolby Digital surround and you should have seen DD lit up on the screen. Check your connections.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Thanks guys for the replys.


I'm 99.9% sure that my setup is correct. Useing a PHD-205 HD tuner, the sound is output via spdif-toslink.

I have had some intermittent problems with the tuner, so I wonder if that is maybe the tuner malfuntioning. Wish I would have been able to trouble-shoot the problem before the party. Oh well, like I said, no one else had a clue anyway







.

I hope I don't have to replace the tuner already. I bought it last August, used it for a short time, then it sat idle for a couple months, now useing it again. Maybe a total of 100 hours of use. I've had other problems with it re: handshaking issues with my projector. That forced me to run an extra component cable to the pj instead of just HDMI. If now it turns out that the tuner is faulty, I will not be too happy. Of course when I first stated having problems with it, it was two weeks out-of-warranty







.

If the tuner is the problem, I'll be upset that it's "costing me", but will be glad to see it go. Don't need any "black sheep" in my set-up.


Thanks again.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12736858
> 
> 
> Thanks guys for the replys.
> 
> 
> I'm 99.9% sure that my setup is correct. Useing a PHD-205 HD tuner, the sound is output via spdif-toslink.
> 
> I have had some intermittent problems with the tuner, so I wonder if that is maybe the tuner malfuntioning. Wish I would have been able to trouble-shoot the problem before the party. Oh well, like I said, no one else had a clue anyway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I hope I don't have to replace the tuner already. I bought it last August, used it for a short time, then it sat idle for a couple months, now useing it again. Maybe a total of 100 hours of use. I've had other problems with it re: handshaking issues with my projector. That forced me to run an extra component cable to the pj instead of just HDMI. If now it turns out that the tuner is faulty, I will not be too happy. Of course when I first stated having problems with it, it was two weeks out-of-warranty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> If the tuner is the problem, I'll be upset that it's "costing me", but will be glad to see it go. Don't need any "black sheep" in my set-up.
> 
> 
> Thanks again.



Do some more testing before you give up on it.


Just to be clear:

tuner audio: tuner ===> optical/toslink ===> Pio AVR

tuner video: tuner ===> component ===> projector tv

Pio AVR audio = 5.1 speaker setup (front L&R, rear L&R, center, sub via LFE)

tuner is OTA only?


Does the Pio display DD & PLII on it's front screen when each is detected?

Does Pio give graphical info on which speakers are "in use" for each audio input?


Another quick test, though not related to anything surround oriented: Does Pio have a 5ch or 7ch stereo mode? Where all speakers are "firing" an even amount of audio while playing a CD or FM broadcast? This is a quick and simple way to find out if all of the speakers are in fact working properly. If any are not "firing" or the audio is much higher or lower on some speakers then you may well have other issues (like wiring, etc....).


----------



## paule123

Smarty, did you check the PHD-205 menu and make sure the audio is set to Dolby Digital output and not PCM ?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12737233
> 
> 
> Smarty, did you check the PHD-205 menu and make sure the audio is set to Dolby Digital output and not PCM ?



Boy! I didn't even think about that! Good catch! PCM over optical would be limited to 2ch, but then the Pio should decode that as PLII.


Another potential option is to do HDMI to the Pio for audio, leaving the video as component. But there are four catches to this:


1. The Pio must have HDMI inputs

2. The Pio must support HDMI audio (some AVR's only pass HDMI video)

3. The tuner must support HDMI audio output

4. The tuner must have "active" outputs where all audio & video outputs are always "active" without having to select a single output for each


----------



## Rambozo

Or take this a step farther: does the Pio have a white noise test for balancing? You could test individual speakers for volume and connectivity this way as well.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12737233
> 
> 
> Smarty, did you check the PHD-205 menu and make sure the audio is set to Dolby Digital output and not PCM ?



You mean send "bitstream" instead of PCM?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12737185
> 
> 
> Do some more testing before you give up on it.
> 
> 
> Just to be clear:
> 
> tuner audio: tuner ===> optical/toslink ===> Pio AVR
> 
> tuner video: tuner ===> component ===> projector tv
> 
> Pio AVR audio = 5.1 speaker setup (front L&R, rear L&R, center, sub via LFE)
> 
> tuner is OTA only?
> 
> 
> Does the Pio display DD & PLII on it's front screen when each is detected?
> 
> Does Pio give graphical info on which speakers are "in use" for each audio input?
> 
> 
> Another quick test, though not related to anything surround oriented: Does Pio have a 5ch or 7ch stereo mode? Where all speakers are "firing" an even amount of audio while playing a CD or FM broadcast? This is a quick and simple way to find out if all of the speakers are in fact working properly. If any are not "firing" or the audio is much higher or lower on some speakers then you may well have other issues (like wiring, etc....).



Thanks for the suggestions toby10. However, I've got a pretty nice set-up here. Everything works perfect for movies so...


I have a 7.1 set-up. The receiver is top notch. The only thing lacking is any new audio codecs like DolbyTrueHD, and it does not have HDMI input/outputs. For those reasons and a few others, I am upgrading my receiver soon. However, the receiver is great.

It does display each channel driven on it's front display. It also does display DD, PLIIx, and all that too. It does have the 5/7 channel stereo mode too, which is what I ended up useing last night.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12737564
> 
> 
> You mean send "bitstream" instead of PCM?



I'm just repeating what it says on page 20 of the manual:

http://www.epvision.com/Documents/ST...HD-205v0.5.pdf 


Two audio options - "Dolby Digital" or "PCM"


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ok, I missed some posts here.


I think it is the tuner. Here's why...

I can switch the output between DD and PCM. When I was viewing a digital channel, and I switched it to DD there was no sound and the front dispaly of my receiver flickers all over the place. VERY WEIRD!

I remember now that I had this problem before, but it went away. I finally got it working by changing the channel to an analog channel, then back to a digital channel. Somehow, it worked itself out... or maybe it didn't really, that I just never noticed because I was not useing the tuner with surround sound.

NOW, I have tried switching between DD and PCM and it is doing it again, and this time not working itself out so far.

The only other thing I can think to try is a different optical connector on my receiver in case that caonnector may be faulty.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12737582
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions toby10. However, I've got a pretty nice set-up here. Everything works perfect for movies so...
> 
> 
> I have a 7.1 set-up. The receiver is top notch. The only thing lacking is any new audio codecs like DolbyTrueHD, and it does not have HDMI input/outputs. For those reasons and a few others, I am upgrading my receiver soon. However, the receiver is great.
> 
> It does display each channel driven on it's front display. It also does display DD, PLIIx, and all that too. It does have the 5/7 channel stereo mode too, which is what I ended up useing last night.



Awsome! Although, right off the bat, I think you are hitting a brick wall. I *think* optical / toslink is limited to 5.1 so that may explain part (or all) of you not getting the surround you are expecting from your extended 2 ch's of surround.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12737753
> 
> 
> Awsome! Although, right off the bat, I think you are hitting a brick wall. I *think* optical / toslink is limited to 5.1 so that may explain part (or all) of you not getting the surround you are expecting from your extended 2 ch's of surround.



Optical is not limited to 5.1. If that were so, no one would be able to hear DTS-ES and DD-EX encoded dvds via optical on their 7.1 set-up. Plus, the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 is irrelevant here I think. The problem is the difference between stereo and 5.1.

Now though, I can't get any... digital?... sound on my system.

Weird thing is, if I go to an analog channel the sound is fine, but going back to a digital channel then no sound and the front panel of the receiver flickers all over the place.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12737978
> 
> 
> Optical is not limited to 5.1. If that were so, no one would be able to hear DTS-ES and DD-EX encoded dvds via optical on their 7.1 set-up. Plus, the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 is irrelevant here I think. The problem is the difference between stereo and 5.1.
> 
> Now though, I can't get any... digital?... sound on my system.
> 
> Weird thing is, if I go to an analog channel the sound is fine, but going back to a digital channel then no sound and the front panel of the receiver flickers all over the place.



Ok. I thought there was a bandwidth (or other) limitation on optical preventing it from going beyond 5.1. *shrug* Is 7.1 reaching the limits of optical? Or am I confusing std. DD & DTS with the newer HD codecs and their limitations over optical?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12739455
> 
> 
> Ok. I thought there was a bandwidth (or other) limitation on optical preventing it from going beyond 5.1. *shrug* Is 7.1 reaching the limits of optical? Or am I confusing std. DD & DTS with the newer HD codecs and their limitations over optical?



That's what you are confusing. Because of the bandwidth issues, you can not receive DolbyTrueHD, DD+, etc via spdif. In order to hear them correctly in their full resolution, they need to tranmit via HDMI.


On the other note, I was able to do a full reset on my HDtuner. It come on just as when it was new. Had to go through the whole gammit of setup procedures and all that. When it was done, the audio is now working again when DD is selected in the menu (no more flickering of the receiver's screen. Now I just need to see if it will transmit correctly to the receiver. It is showing as stereo again right now, I just need to find some tv in surround to see what happens.


----------



## nippywiffle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/12709278
> 
> 
> Here are the config parameters from my MyHD card:
> 
> 
> ;MyHD Channel Data File
> 
> ;Macro Image Technology



Thanks, I got my TNT HD channel back










I coudln't pick up Discovery HD or the "bonus channel" though. Oh well.


----------



## andrew312

Thanks for the advice, I'll be back in town this weekend and will check it out and post back. The Terk I have is directional and amplified and I will probably be mounting it outside a second story window, so we'll see how that does. The good thing is that all the antennas are within a few (compass) degrees of one another directly out my window. Thanks again.


----------



## HD MM

Cleveland's HD Channel List by Provider has been updated to add "The 101-HD" to the D* Lineup.....


See new list: here


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12750951
> 
> 
> Cleveland's HD Channel List by Provider has been updated to add "The 101-HD" to the D* Lineup.....
> 
> 
> See new list: here



HD MM - thanks again for maintaining this list. Wanted to let you know that when when you get the time to do your next update, there are 3 new HD channels available on WOW:


225-Discovery HD

226-Animal Planet HD

227-TLC HD


FYI for others, these three channels are on the Basic HD tier and ESPN-HD and TNT-HD have now been moved from Premium HD-Pak to the Basic HD tier as well.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12751560
> 
> 
> HD MM - thanks again for maintaining this list. Wanted to let you know that when when you get the time to do your next update, there are 3 new HD channels available on WOW:
> 
> 
> 225-Discovery HD
> 
> 226-Animal Planet HD
> 
> 227-TLC HD
> 
> 
> FYI for others, these three channels are on the Basic HD tier and ESPN-HD and TNT-HD have now been moved from Premium HD-Pak to the Basic HD tier as well.



Found anything new in the Clear QAM lineup? I'm assuming the basic tier channels are encrypted except the locals.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12751560
> 
> 
> HD MM - thanks again for maintaining this list. Wanted to let you know that when when you get the time to do your next update, there are 3 new HD channels available on WOW:
> 
> 
> 225-Discovery HD
> 
> 226-Animal Planet HD
> 
> 227-TLC HD
> 
> 
> FYI for others, these three channels are on the Basic HD tier and ESPN-HD and TNT-HD have now been moved from Premium HD-Pak to the Basic HD tier as well.




Thanks for the update, but those are already on the list!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12751560
> 
> 
> HD MM - thanks again for maintaining this list. Wanted to let you know that when when you get the time to do your next update, there are 3 new HD channels available on WOW:
> 
> 
> 225-Discovery HD
> 
> 226-Animal Planet HD
> 
> 227-TLC HD
> 
> 
> FYI for others, these three channels are on the Basic HD tier and ESPN-HD and TNT-HD have now been moved from Premium HD-Pak to the Basic HD tier as well.



Crime Warner gets its azz kicked, AGAIN!! And those are three channels I'd like to see.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12751637
> 
> 
> Found anything new in the Clear QAM lineup? I'm assuming the basic tier channels are encrypted except the locals.



Nothing but the locals and Music Choice. I only get MC on one of my 2 QAM TVs.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12751750
> 
> 
> Thanks for the update, but those are already on the list!



My bad, then. When I download from your link I get an "x" in the orange WOW column for those channels.


Thanks again for keeping this as a great resource for all of us.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12753000
> 
> 
> My bad, then. When I download from your link I get an "x" in the orange WOW column for those channels.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for keeping this as a great resource for all of us.



Woops. My bad actually. I was looking at U-Verse. Well, those 3 channels are updated on WoW! Thanks again.....


----------



## lefkas

I noticed that TWC has recently changed its unencrpyted QAM lineup in the Akron-Canton area. It has dropped Youngstown Fox 27/62, ABC-13 Toledo, Discovery Health and The Food Network and replaced them with some music channels and the Akron Public School System Channel. Hardly a fair trade. What gives ?


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12754083
> 
> 
> I noticed that TWC has recently changed its unencrpyted QAM lineup in the Akron-Canton area. It has dropped Youngstown Fox 27/62, ABC-13 Toledo, Discovery Health and The Food Network and replaced them with some music channels and the Akron Public School System Channel. Hardly a fair trade. What gives ?



Akron-Canton area? The Akron-Canton area is not one system; can you be more specific?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12754083
> 
> 
> I noticed that TWC has recently changed its unencrpyted QAM lineup in the Akron-Canton area. It has dropped Youngstown Fox 27/62, ABC-13 Toledo, Discovery Health and The Food Network and replaced them with some music channels and the Akron Public School System Channel. Hardly a fair trade. What gives ?



I dont get those channels and I am in green (old cable one, or choice one or something like that) and I dont see those on my QAM, in fact my QAM isnt even mapped right, nbc is something like 103-2, and so fox is 102-1 and so on, its really weird, then on channel 0 I have like 7 channels coming through, all as channel 0.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12752890
> 
> 
> Crime Warner gets its azz kicked, AGAIN!! And those are three channels I'd like to see.



So what's your point nickdawg? It's like kicking people when their down.










You read the boards. You know why TW is not going to come close to what's happening with D*. At least not for sometime to come.


For people like me I'd have switched ti D* long before I bought my S3 and just kept TW for the internet. But I got a line of sight problem.


So talk about all the new channels in HD D* is getting, that's fine. But right now it's not a competition. It's like the Browns playing the Patriots. Or Ohio State against LSU. Or the Red Sox against the Indians.


Oh, I'm sorry. Did that bother you?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12755899
> 
> 
> It's like the Browns playing the Patriots. Or Ohio State against LSU. Or the Red Sox against the Indians.
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry. Did that bother you?



Even I wouldn't go that far below the belt







. Low blow indeed...


----------



## nickdawg

Way to clear out the forum!!














This place has been a ghost town since that last comment.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12766484
> 
> 
> Way to clear out the forum!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This place has been a ghost town since that last comment.



We're boycotting until hookbill apologizes for making such a comment about our FUTURE SUPERBOWL CHAMPIAN CLEVELAND BROWNS!


Well............ maybe in 2022................. but STILL!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## neo1022

Is there a channel listing for the Time Warner (Mentor) QAM channels? The TVs I have (Toshiba) do not filter out the encrypted channels when doing an auto-scan, so it is a huge pain to try to find the channels when the cable co. decides to move them.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/12754678
> 
> 
> Akron-Canton area? The Akron-Canton area is not one system; can you be more specific?



There are, as far as I know, three different systems considered in TWC's Akron/Canton area - the original Akron system, the original Canton system, and the former Marks Cablevision system in southern Summit County (Green, etc.).


The lineups are not the same. For one, last time I checked, the Canton system puts 3/5/8 on the same channel positions, where Akron scatters the Cleveland OTA VHF stations to other positions.


Akron picks up WAOH-LP 29 "The CAT" on cable 14, and Canton picks up WIVM-LP 52 on digital cable 585. I'm not sure what the Green-based ex-Marks/Cable One system does with those channels.


I'm pretty sure they share infrastructure at this point, but there are lineup differences...and there probably are such differences on the open QAM side as well.


----------



## Rbuchina

neo1022


> Quote:
> Is there a channel listing for the Time Warner (Mentor) QAM channels? The TVs I have (Toshiba) do not filter out the encrypted channels when doing an auto-scan, so it is a huge pain to try to find the channels when the cable co. decides to move them.



neo1022,

I also have TWC in Mentor and have the same question. Hopefully we can find a channel quide for Mentor QAM. My wife recently recieved a free TV for buying a new car. Its an LCD HD 15" 4:3. Wierd! It does have a QAM tuner so I pulled it out of the box and connected it to the line. When I did a auto channel search I get all these "dead" channels. I than have to go in and manually edit them unwatchable so they dissapear when I scan through the channels. The auto scan also finds several duplicate channels for the locals. I would hope that I just have a pos tuner on this give-a-way tv and a real QAM tuner would learn the channels better and be easier to edit. This is my first experience with a QAM tuner.

Ray


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/12778790
> 
> 
> neo1022
> 
> 
> neo1022,
> 
> I also have TWC in Mentor and have the same question. Hopefully we can find a channel quide for Mentor QAM. My wife recently recieved a free TV for buying a new car. Its an LCD HD 15" 4:3. Wierd! It does have a QAM tuner so I pulled it out of the box and connected it to the line. When I did a auto channel search I get all these "dead" channels. I than have to go in and manually edit them unwatchable so they dissapear when I scan through the channels. The auto scan also finds several duplicate channels for the locals. I would hope that I just have a pos tuner on this give-a-way tv and a real QAM tuner would learn the channels better and be easier to edit. This is my first experience with a QAM tuner.
> 
> Ray




Nope. It's not the tuner that's bad, it's your cable company. They do not want to take the time to map and code the QAM channels correctly because they don't care about their customers. They figure that since you're basically getting those channels for free, that you can just live with it.


----------



## Brian5150

Any1 having a problem getting tonight cav's game in hd?

FSN HD here on armstrong in medina is black, reg. channel is showing it though.


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12773044
> 
> 
> For one, last time I checked, the Canton system puts 3/5/8 on the same channel positions



Green does this



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12773044
> 
> 
> Akron picks up WAOH-LP 29 "The CAT" on cable 14



Green has this


Green also has one community access channel and one "educational" channel ran by Green High School. TWC still has the same office location, although they do not have any satellite dishes at that location anymore (just a broadcast antenna).


Time Warner took over the system from Cable One just as they finished upgrading the network for broadband & digital services, in 2002. ...Were they really 7 years behind in deploying a HFC network?


----------



## Inundated

So, the TWC Green-based system (ex-Cable One/Marks) seems to have morphed into its own little hybrid of Akron and Canton.










I'm not sure this bodes well for integration of TWC's Akron-area systems with the old Adelphia ones. e.g. it'd make sense to me if they'd align channel lineups and programming in the Akron area - the former Adelphia system in western Summit County and the former Adelphia system in Macedonia/etc. with the existing TWC Akron lineup.


Some channels are gonna be different everywhere no matter what...e.g. the public access/educational channels. But even after cross-seeding local programming between cable channel 15 out of Cleveland and cable channel 23 out of Akron, under the "NEON" banner, why didn't they pick a single cable channel number to unify them?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12785659
> 
> 
> Some channels are gonna be different everywhere no matter what...e.g. the public access/educational channels. But even after cross-seeding local programming between cable channel 15 out of Cleveland and cable channel 23 out of Akron, under the "NEON" banner, why didn't they pick a single cable channel number to unify them?



Before the take over of Adelphia and Comcast I had suggested that perhaps there would not be a cable channel conversion to an "all the same channel" TW. As I recall I was generally told that this idea didn't make sense, that's not the way TW does it, hookbill you're an idiot.....Well, maybe nobody said that but you get where I'm coming from.


And with the development of SDV and TW wanting a big push on this I thought that everyone was probably right and this cable unification thing makes sense. I still think if they are going to apply SDV, and we all know that has to happen because D* is going to whip their behinds by offering so much HD channels, regardless if there really isn't that much more HD programming.


I first heard of the big "line up change" happening in June by one of TW's very knowledgeable techs. Pardon me if I pause to laugh for a half an hour or so.


And that ws June of 2007, just so we're all on the same page.


And now in some areas we are seeing the emergence of Advance TV, or better known as AT&T U-Verse. At least I think that it's the same thing.


So what in the heck does TW have planned? Well, I think the first thing I'm going to do is as soon as I get a chance I plan on calling them and telling them about all these other marvelous choices around and hey isn't my cable bill awful high and why should I stay with them? Hopefully they won't know I'm bluffing because I have the S3 but knowing their CSR's I think that will go over their head.


They probably will respond with a "generous" roll back for a whole 3 months. At that point I will laugh and tell them I'll call them back probably tomorrow after I call D* and find out when they are coming out. Either they will say "have a nice day" or they will do the smart thing and put me on hold for a few seconds while they pretend to talk to a supervisor and offer me 6 months. I'll tell them I want a year or I'm splitting.


My point is that now is a good time to take it to TW. If they start losing revenue because of this maybe they will improve HD service. They probably will lose revenue anyway because I still think people are going to be interested in U-Verse or D* but hey, what have we got to lose?


I'll see if I can't give it a try and get back to you all tomorrow.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, I wish you all the luck in you negotiations w/TW, but I think you are going to be disappointed. They treat their customers like terrorists... no negotiating. You may get the 3 months, but that's probably about it.

I think TW has just about been "left in the dust" as I know you are already aware, but IMHO, as they will have no choice, they will probably catch up to contention status by the end of the year.

Anxiously awaiting your report though...


----------



## nickdawg

If/when Time Warner NE Ohio standardizes line ups, how do you think it will be done?


-Align all former Adelphia/Comcast systems to the "legacy" Akron line up?

-Keep separate line ups between Akron and Cleveland?

-Make an entirely new and different line up?


+Clues to the last option:

*When new channels were added this year like FOX Reality, FOX Business News and TV One; they were all placed high in the 100s, sort of the "dead end" of the line up.

*When TBS HD







was addec, it has two virtual channels(either the 500s or 700s depending on location as well as number 600 on all systems).

*Recently CSPAN2 was moved off analog on Time Warner Akron and former Adelphia to digital channel 186. Again, this movement of a channel to the "dead end" is suspicious, considering the open space in the 100s on digital in Akron.


+Also, what about the treatment of SD local channels(VHF channels only)?

=Stay on the actual OTA broadcast numbers on the former Adelphia system and stay on the different numbers for the Akron system(2, 11, 9)?

=Move WKYC to 2, WEWS to 11 and WJW to 9 on ALL systems? OR

=Move the local channels to the OTA broadcast numbers on ALL systems?


Something to think about...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12785968
> 
> 
> Hopefully they won't know I'm bluffing because I have the S3 but knowing their CSR's I think that will go over their head.



You could twist this around to your advantage... Tell them you watch a ton of HD programming available OTA, and since TW doesn't offer much more than what you can get OTA, you have no problem hooking the S3 up to an antenna. As part of your research, you tested the idea, and the PQ was as good or better than what TW provides, and the few additional HD channels they provide aren't justified by the monthly bill.







When the D* issue comes up, point out that the S3 can record two HD channels OTA, the D* DVR adds an additional slot, so you'll be able to record three HD channels at the same time - more channels, less money, and more DVR slots.


(Drink a beer or two, and that all makes sense.







)


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12787271
> 
> 
> =Move WKYC to 2, WEWS to 11 and WJW to 9 on ALL systems? OR
> 
> =Move the local channels to the OTA broadcast numbers on ALL systems?



I've always hated the 2/9/11 thing. When I moved from Canton (3 was 3, 5 was 5, etc.) to Cuyahoga Falls, I wondered which brain child decided on the Akron channel lineup. The Cleveland stations were around long before TWC - it's not like TWC had to fit them into an existing lineup...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12787777
> 
> 
> I've always hated the 2/9/11 thing. When I moved from Canton (3 was 3, 5 was 5, etc.) to Cuyahoga Falls, I wondered which brain child decided on the Akron channel lineup. The Cleveland stations were around long before TWC - it's not like TWC had to fit them into an existing lineup...



Akron's system has had 3/5/8 on 2/9/11 as long as I can remember, though I think they flipped 5/8 - 9/11 at some point. I'm pretty sure the "off" channel numbering dates back to perhaps even the Akron Cablevision days.


I presume it happened because the cable company wanted to avoid on-channel ingress of the Cleveland signals, since they are so strong here.


Why didn't Cablevision (actually North Coast Cable at the start) do the same in Cleveland itself on what became the Adelphia system? I dunno. Perhaps by the time the mid-80's rolled around - remember, the Cleveland system started that late - they figured they could trap interference.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12787777
> 
> 
> I've always hated the 2/9/11 thing. When I moved from Canton (3 was 3, 5 was 5, etc.) to Cuyahoga Falls, I wondered which brain child decided on the Akron channel lineup. The Cleveland stations were around long before TWC - it's not like TWC had to fit them into an existing lineup...



Sometimes the industry will offset local broadcast channels to mitigate problems caused by local ingress. Let's say that you're watching Channel 3 on a system where it's on it's native channel assignment, then a fitting loosens up in your cable. What happens is that some of the off-air Channel 3 signal leaks into your system and mixes with the cable-delivered Channel 3, causing ghosts and/or beats in your picture, because the same signal is arriving at your set twice, a few nanoseconds apart in time. Your set doesn't know which is the "real" signal, so it tries to show both of them. The result is a poor picture, *only* on the local VHF off-air channels.


In short, there are often technical reasons for decisions like this.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *andrew312* /forum/post/12744747
> 
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I'll be back in town this weekend and will check it out and post back. The Terk I have is directional and amplified and I will probably be mounting it outside a second story window, so we'll see how that does. The good thing is that all the antennas are within a few (compass) degrees of one another directly out my window. Thanks again.



Amplified antennas in urban areas don't make sense. An amplifier will not compensate for a weak signal that is weak due to terrain interference (i.e. tall buildings). You need to get a *non-amplified* antenna on a rooftop as high as possible and precisely aimed at the Parma antenna farm. Also you need both VHF & UHF elements. At the end of the digital transition (Feb. 19, 2009) WOIO and possibly WJW will both be VHF. WKYC is VHF today but will move to UHF.


----------



## hookbill

First, mnowlin that's a good point and I didn't need any alcohol to understand so you wern't as bad as you thought you were when you posted that.










I still think it will go over their head. Think about it. "Sir, DVR's only work if you are with the cable company." That's where they will go with that.


Anyway I went back to work on Monday for the first time in 3 years.







So I gotta find a good time to pull this off.


I'm in training at work and their system is DOS.

















I'm not allowed to tell you what I do or who I work for. Now you're thinking, hmmm...dos....he can't tell....My God, he works for the CIA or FBI! Nope. I have mentioned in the past what I use to do so if you're real curious and you feel like searching through my 2 thousand some odd post, feel free.


I will try and do the TW thing tomorrow.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12790332
> 
> 
> Sometimes the industry will offset local broadcast channels to mitigate problems caused by local ingress. Let's say that you're watching Channel 3 on a system where it's on it's native channel assignment, then a fitting loosens up in your cable. What happens is that some of the off-air Channel 3 signal leaks into your system and mixes with the cable-delivered Channel 3, causing ghosts and/or beats in your picture, because the same signal is arriving at your set twice, a few nanoseconds apart in time. Your set doesn't know which is the "real" signal, so it tries to show both of them. The result is a poor picture, *only* on the local VHF off-air channels.
> 
> 
> In short, there are often technical reasons for decisions like this.



When cable first came out to my old neighborhood (Euclid) in the early 80's Viacom Cablevision did a similar thing offsetting 3, 5 & 8. They put "message boards" on the real 3, 5 & 8 since ingress was unavoidable in those days mainly because 98% of the TV's needed a 300 ohm balun that acted like an antenna due to the nature of 300 ohm lead-in. It did not matter that the lead-in was literally less than an inch long, all you needed was essentially a bare wire to pick-up an OTA signal. As more "cable-ready" sets with 75 ohm co-ax inputs hit the market ingress interference was reduced.


I'm surprised that the Akron area needed to offset their 3,5 & 8. We could never pick-up WAKR or WAOH in Euclid, so I thought that the terrestrial interference went both ways (i.e. Akron having problems getting the Cleveland signals OTA).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12791695
> 
> 
> I'm surprised that the Akron area needed to offset their 3,5 & 8. We could never pick-up WAKR or WAOH in Euclid, so I thought that the terrestrial interference went both ways (i.e. Akron having problems getting the Cleveland signals OTA).



Oh, no...the Parma antenna farm stations kick into Akron with no problem.


The problem is the other way. The station now known as WVPX (Channel 23), even after powering up to 5MW a few years ago, has terrain problems between it and parts of the Cleveland area.


I know people have talked about it in here...I think that terrain in Richfield is the culprit causing problems from the WVPX site (near Rolling Acres Mall in Copley Township) for many Cleveland area viewers.


Meanwhile, there's no such major terrain obstruction to most of the Akron area to Parma/North Royalton/etc.


WAOH-LP is A) low power and B) located in Brimfield, near I-76/Rt. 43. Maybe you meant WOAC or something?







WAOH-LP, of course, rebroadcasts 24/7 on W35AX Cleveland, which is in the Parma farm somewhere.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12790310
> 
> 
> Akron's system has had 3/5/8 on 2/9/11 as long as I can remember, though I think they flipped 5/8 - 9/11 at some point. I'm pretty sure the "off" channel numbering dates back to perhaps even the Akron Cablevision days.
> 
> 
> I presume it happened because the cable company wanted to avoid on-channel ingress of the Cleveland signals, since they are so strong here.
> 
> 
> Why didn't Cablevision (actually North Coast Cable at the start) do the same in Cleveland itself on what became the Adelphia system? I dunno. Perhaps by the time the mid-80's rolled around - remember, the Cleveland system started that late - they figured they could trap interference.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12790332
> 
> 
> Sometimes the industry will offset local broadcast channels to mitigate problems caused by local ingress. Let's say that you're watching Channel 3 on a system where it's on it's native channel assignment, then a fitting loosens up in your cable. What happens is that some of the off-air Channel 3 signal leaks into your system and mixes with the cable-delivered Channel 3, causing ghosts and/or beats in your picture, because the same signal is arriving at your set twice, a few nanoseconds apart in time. Your set doesn't know which is the "real" signal, so it tries to show both of them. The result is a poor picture, *only* on the local VHF off-air channels.
> 
> 
> In short, there are often technical reasons for decisions like this.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/12791695
> 
> 
> When cable first came out to my old neighborhood (Euclid) in the early 80's Viacom Cablevision did a similar thing offsetting 3, 5 & 8. They put "message boards" on the real 3, 5 & 8 since ingress was unavoidable in those days mainly because 98% of the TV's needed a 300 ohm balun that acted like an antenna due to the nature of 300 ohm lead-in. It did not matter that the lead-in was literally less than an inch long, all you needed was essentially a bare wire to pick-up an OTA signal. As more "cable-ready" sets with 75 ohm co-ax inputs hit the market ingress interference was reduced.



The channel ingress definately used to be a bit of a problem, even to today sometimes. One of my analog TVs without a box was very problematic until TW changed the wiring to it. It had an older wire And on 3, 5 and 8 at times there are horizontal stripes and interference in the picture. Just like when my cable was out the other day, 3,5 and 8 were coming in OTA on their channels.


Another problem plagued me until the move to digital simulcasting. WBNX is on channel 8, WJW is on channel 9. I'm not sure how much was head end fault and my wiring's fault, but there was someinterference on WBNX.


Although the interesting thing is, even after the digital simulcast was added, the PQ on that channel is still not so hot. The *DIGITAL* channel is still prone to ghosting and there are some diagonal lines throught the picture, which are more visible when the show is paused. And the overall picture quality of this channel is murky and hazy looking. It was really making me wonder if it is actually digital or not.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12793158
> 
> 
> Although the interesting thing is, even after the digital simulcast was added, the PQ on that channel is still not so hot. The *DIGITAL* channel is still prone to ghosting and there are some diagonal lines throught the picture, which are more visible when the show is paused. And the overall picture quality of this channel is murky and hazy looking. It was really making me wonder if it is actually digital or not.



Is TWC actually doing the digital simulcast thing with WBNX? They don't appear to be doing it here with the SD version. Only 3/5/8/19/43 are digitally substituted on TWC/ex-Adelphia Cleveland.


(I can tell that for sure by tuning into the 800's, where they "throw" the analog versions of those stations on a digital cable box. There's no WBNX up there in the 800's.)


I don't know if they're doing it differently in Akron.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12793191
> 
> 
> Is TWC actually doing the digital simulcast thing with WBNX? They don't appear to be doing it here with the SD version. Only 3/5/8/19/43 are digitally substituted on TWC/ex-Adelphia Cleveland.
> 
> 
> (I can tell that for sure by tuning into the 800's, where they "throw" the analog versions of those stations on a digital cable box. There's no WBNX up there in the 800's.)
> 
> 
> I don't know if they're doing it differently in Akron.



Of course you and I are on the old Adelphia even though in different areas. No "digital" WBNX here either.


This is one I really don't understand. I guess they won't do the digital until they set up the HD as well, but why haven't they done this by now?


I can understand some of TW's thinking and why they have not set up HD due to limited bandwith, but there is really no excuse for WBNX not being available.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12793191
> 
> 
> Is TWC actually doing the digital simulcast thing with WBNX? They don't appear to be doing it here with the SD version. Only 3/5/8/19/43 are digitally substituted on TWC/ex-Adelphia Cleveland.
> 
> 
> (I can tell that for sure by tuning into the 800's, where they "throw" the analog versions of those stations on a digital cable box. There's no WBNX up there in the 800's.)
> 
> 
> I don't know if they're doing it differently in Akron.



Yes. On Time Warner in Akron all channels under 100 are digital, except a TW cable channel. They all are Dolby2/0 and QAM 256. There are also still analog versions for TVs without boxes. On a digital box, the digital feed is mapped to the same virtual channel(WKYC is 2 on a box OR analog TV tuner) Digital boxes do not have the analog versions anymore.


Most channels look good, some look like crap. Mostly due to compression, since TW is bandwidth challenged. Also, many channels have a thin, black bar between the grey sidebar and the picture; the 4:3 picture does not fill the 4:3 area. I've read on another forum here that this is a blanking error because the feed coming into the head end is analog.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12793667
> 
> 
> Of course you and I are on the old Adelphia even though in different areas. No "digital" WBNX here either.
> 
> 
> This is one I really don't understand. I guess they won't do the digital until they set up the HD as well, but why haven't they done this by now?
> 
> 
> I can understand some of TW's thinking and why they have not set up HD due to limited bandwith, but there is really no excuse for WBNX not being available.



Of course WBNX in HD is not available on any Time Warner system here yet. Seems to be the same across the board. But the fact there is ghosting and horiz. lines on a digital channel makes me question whether or not WBNX is actually digital. Up until this April, the only thing coming out of WBNX was the main analog feed on 55. Which really makes me wonder where an digital feed for cable would come from. It was rumored on Ohio Media Watch that one of the WBNX sub channels would be used to provide cable with a digital feed. Plus, WBNX does have the black space to the left of the picture; I've read that it means the incoming feed is analog.


But now there really is no excuse to NOT have WBNX HD. TW Akron shut off analog for ESPN Classic and CSPAN2, plus they dumped two digital preview channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12795308
> 
> 
> Yes. On Time Warner in Akron all channels under 100 are digital, except a TW cable channel. They all are Dolby2/0 and QAM 256. There are also still analog versions for TVs without boxes. On a digital box, the digital feed is mapped to the same virtual channel(WKYC is 2 on a box OR analog TV tuner) Digital boxes do not have the analog versions anymore.



Assuming you are correct about the sub-100 versions being digital on digital boxes, there'd appear to be one possible answer: TWC Akron is indeed "digitizing" the channel themselves, with the analog source feed. The only reason for them to have it "digital" is to be able to squeeze it into part of a QAM channel, to save space.


There's no law that says "digital cable" has to have a "digital source". The "digital cable" version of C-SPAN2 is using the very same satellite feed that they used on analog.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But now there really is no excuse to NOT have WBNX HD. TW Akron shut off analog for ESPN Classic and CSPAN2, plus they dumped two digital preview channels.



TWC Cleveland (ex-Adelphia side) moved C-SPAN2 up into the digital side, near WKYC's "Weather Plus" and WVIZ's "Ohio Channel", recently. I don't think we ever had ESPN Classic on analog on this side of the TWC Divide.


I'd agree, yes...one would assume that's why they are moving analog channels, to make more digital bandwidth.


As I mentioned, the analog versions of 3/5/8/19/43 still exist on digital boxes over on this side of TWC, in the 800's. Hookbill and I and others here spent about a day trying to figure that one out.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12795507
> 
> 
> Assuming you are correct about the sub-100 versions being digital on digital boxes, there'd appear to be one possible answer: TWC Akron is indeed "digitizing" the channel themselves, with the analog source feed. The only reason for them to have it "digital" is to be able to squeeze it into part of a QAM channel, to save space.
> 
> 
> There's no law that says "digital cable" has to have a "digital source". The "digital cable" version of C-SPAN2 is using the very same satellite feed that they used on analog.



That sounds right. The "digital" CSPAN2 has the black space to the left. The channels over 100 that were the digital tier back in the day do appear to be digital from the source. Also, a few of the bigger name channels under 100 like MTV, Discovery, TLC, Nickoloden, Comedy Central, VH1 appear to be digital(no space). The rest are digitized and at times it really shows. I still had SD when they made the switch and some channels, like SD FOX actually looked worse. I love 24 and Prison Break. Whenever there was an explosion on 24, the picture would get really blurry and it looked like crap.


----------



## neo1022




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/12778790
> 
> 
> I also have TWC in Mentor and have the same question.



I was able to find this site. I haven't checked it over, thoroughly, but the info appears good.

http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdhomerun/channels 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12780606
> 
> 
> Nope. It's not the tuner that's bad, it's your cable company.



The TV should be smart enough to exclude QAM channels during the auto-scan that are encrypted. At least include it as an option.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12792018
> 
> 
> Oh, no...the Parma antenna farm stations kick into Akron with no problem.
> 
> 
> The problem is the other way. The station now known as WVPX (Channel 23), even after powering up to 5MW a few years ago, has terrain problems between it and parts of the Cleveland area.
> 
> 
> I know people have talked about it in here...I think that terrain in Richfield is the culprit causing problems from the WVPX site (near Rolling Acres Mall in Copley Township) for many Cleveland area viewers.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, there's no such major terrain obstruction to most of the Akron area to Parma/North Royalton/etc.
> 
> 
> WAOH-LP is A) low power and B) located in Brimfield, near I-76/Rt. 43. Maybe you meant WOAC or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WAOH-LP, of course, rebroadcasts 24/7 on W35AX Cleveland, which is in the Parma farm somewhere.



The WOAC tower is right down the road from me, I pass it quite frequently and see the "WOAC-TV" sign on the mailbox when I pass it. There is usually always a car there too so someone is keeping an eye on things...

Too bad they always have infomercials, as it is the only channel I get rock solid...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12795308
> 
> 
> Yes. On Time Warner in Akron all channels under 100 are digital, except a TW cable channel. They all are Dolby2/0 and QAM 256. There are also still analog versions for TVs without boxes. On a digital box, the digital feed is mapped to the same virtual channel(WKYC is 2 on a box OR analog TV tuner) Digital boxes do not have the analog versions anymore.
> 
> 
> Of course WBNX in HD is not available on any Time Warner system here yet. Seems to be the same across the board. But the fact there is ghosting and horiz. lines on a digital channel makes me question whether or not WBNX is actually digital. Up until this April, the only thing coming out of WBNX was the main analog feed on 55. Which really makes me wonder where an digital feed for cable would come from. It was rumored on Ohio Media Watch that one of the WBNX sub channels would be used to provide cable with a digital feed. Plus, WBNX does have the black space to the left of the picture; I've read that it means the incoming feed is analog.



Ghosting and shadowing on a digital picture is possible. When I lived in N. Kentucky we received the UPN channel in Cincinnati(sorry, don't recall channel or call letters any longer - It may have been channel 19) on Direct TV. Now obviously they were upconverting the analog signal but as you are aware all of D*'s channels are digital.


If your receiving WBNX with a Dolby 2.0 on your receiver that is also an indication that this is a digital picture. Perhaps they are upconverting the digital signal. On my receiver it's PCM 48.


Also with them freeing up bandwith by placing some analog stations on digital also adds to this "no excuse" for WBNX not in HD. I sent them an email last night. I wish I would have copied it. In essence I told them that I was going to leave TW unless they can explain to me why WBNX is not on HD or even in digital yet. I told them I didn't want any of their canned responses and that I expect them to treat me like a human being and show me appreciation as a customer. I told them to tell me why I should stay with them. I told them that I know many of D*'s new channels don't carry real HD program but I was interested in all those channels. Just one channel that is already available over the air. I did mention I understand bandwith limitations and such but I've asked them about WBNX 3 times over the last year only to be told either "it's in negotiations" or "they can't discuss future HD channels." What a bunch of crap.


I might try the phone now


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12797311
> 
> 
> I've asked them about WBNX 3 times over the last year only to be told either "it's in negotiations" or "they can't discuss future HD channels." What a bunch of crap.
> 
> 
> I might try the phone now



What a load of s***! Why would WBNX be "in negotiations"? They already carry the SD feed plus it's a local channel so it should have to be carried like the others are. As for "they can't discuss future HD channels", I believe that one only because they probably don't have any future HD channels planned.


----------



## hookbill

OK. I did the call. The first call was one of those "we're busy, we will call you back in 6 to 12 minutes call." I got the call and told the rep that I was seriously considering D* and give me a reason I should stay with TW. She said can you hold? I thought she's probably looking at options for retention.


She gets back on the phone and says, "I'm sorry about that. How can I help you?" Huh? I just told you why I had called. We're you not listening? She said "Oh yes something about HD and Direct TV." I said lets move on.


I go through the opening again and she cuts me off and says "well as far as the HD goes, we can't discuss that" and I said I don't want to hear that. Then I asked for a Supervisor knowing full and well I wouldn't get one. I told her that I didn't want to discuss it with her because she was a horrible representative and I will send an email about this call. I did get her name and caller id had the time of the call. Then she got her 'tude going saying well, you want my last name, my employee number? I said sure, let me get all the...she cuts me off and says because this phone call has got to end. Then she threw me back into the que.


I sent an email to TW with the time and what happened and her name.


I call back and get another rep. A very nice lady. I go through the whole thing again. She says "Your right, right now we cannot offer what D* is offering." I said then why should I remain a customer? Where's my incentive?


Does she offer me 3 months? No 6 months? No. 1 year?


She offers to knock 8 bucks off my bill.


I said thanks, I'll consider it after I talk to D* and I'll give you a call back.










What a waste of time.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I hate to say I told you so, so I won't. I will say this though... Time Warner sucks!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12797690
> 
> 
> OK. I did the call. The first call was one of those "we're busy, we will call you back in 6 to 12 minutes call." I got the call and told the rep that I was seriously considering D* and give me a reason I should stay with TW. She said can you hold? I thought she's probably looking at options for retention.
> 
> 
> She gets back on the phone and says, "I'm sorry about that. How can I help you?" Huh? I just told you why I had called. We're you not listening? She said "Oh yes something about HD and Direct TV." I said lets move on.
> 
> 
> I go through the opening again and she cuts me off and says "well as far as the HD goes, we can't discuss that" and I said I don't want to hear that. Then I asked for a Supervisor knowing full and well I wouldn't get one. I told her that I didn't want to discuss it with her because she was a horrible representative and I will send an email about this call. I did get her name and caller id had the time of the call. Then she got her 'tude going saying well, you want my last name, my employee number? I said sure, let me get all the...she cuts me off and says because this phone call has got to end. Then she threw me back into the que.
> 
> 
> I sent an email to TW with the time and what happened and her name.
> 
> 
> I call back and get another rep. A very nice lady. I go through the whole thing again. She says "Your right, right now we cannot offer what D* is offering." I said then why should I remain a customer? Where's my incentive?
> 
> 
> Does she offer me 3 months? No 6 months? No. 1 year?
> 
> 
> She offers to knock 8 bucks off my bill.
> 
> 
> I said thanks, I'll consider it after I talk to D* and I'll give you a call back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a waste of time.


----------



## dleising

You can try Time Warner's executive customer service. I heard stories of people actually getting things done when you call the big suits, if you are polite and don't act like an ass.


It's worth a shot....


Link: http://consumerist.com/340246/contac...stomer-service


----------



## quern

Hello All. I have another TWC question. After reading more of your posts, along with posts on the 8300HD, I decided I was curious enough to find out what software my 8300HD is using. I'm on the old Adelphia system and mine is running Sara. It also appears that I have the added diagnostics pages for switched video... Anyway, my question relates to channel 777 (HD showcase on demand). When this channel first came on I tried going to it and my dvr would hang... After the hanging stopped I found that the video just didn't work. It was always choppy, no sound, it just doesn't work. So after staying away from this channel for months I thought I'd try it again. I still end up with the same results. Is there any reason why I can't get this channel?


I'm like everyone else here wanting more HD and debating on whether or not to get a HD Tivo. I realize that if I get the Tivo I am committing myself to cable for a while, but I also don't see myself switching to U-verse until it's available on my street and they have the multiple HD stream issue resolved. My wife doesn't want a dish on the house so that is also out of the question. So here I am, debating on if the HD tivo will allow me to see these channels that currently hang... I'm torn between living with the 8300HD and purchasing a blue-ray player, or making the plunge to the Tivo unit & forgoing the blue-ray for now.


Thanks again!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/12798886
> 
> 
> Hello All. I have another TWC question. After reading more of your posts, along with posts on the 8300HD, I decided I was curious enough to find out what software my 8300HD is using. I'm on the old Adelphia system and mine is running Sara. It also appears that I have the added diagnostics pages for switched video... Anyway, my question relates to channel 777 (HD showcase on demand). When this channel first came on I tried going to it and my dvr would hang... After the hanging stopped I found that the video just didn't work. It was always choppy, no sound, it just doesn't work. So after staying away from this channel for months I thought I'd try it again. I still end up with the same results. Is there any reason why I can't get this channel?
> 
> 
> I'm like everyone else here wanting more HD and debating on whether or not to get a HD Tivo. I realize that if I get the Tivo I am committing myself to cable for a while, but I also don't see myself switching to U-verse until it's available on my street and they have the multiple HD stream issue resolved. My wife doesn't want a dish on the house so that is also out of the question. So here I am, debating on if the HD tivo will allow me to see these channels that currently hang... I'm torn between living with the 8300HD and purchasing a blue-ray player, or making the plunge to the Tivo unit & forgoing the blue-ray for now.
> 
> 
> Thanks again!




I'd be happy to give my opinion. Please see my signature. You may substitute TiVo HD for TiVo S3.










I do not use on demand. Never. That's why my S3 has an eSATA that has 750gb total. If you like on demand you will not like not being able to access that.


Or you could just get a regular HD Box and split off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/12798394
> 
> 
> You can try Time Warner's executive customer service. I heard stories of people actually getting things done when you call the big suits, if you are polite and don't act like an ass.
> 
> 
> It's worth a shot....
> 
> 
> Link: http://consumerist.com/340246/contac...stomer-service



Nice link. I'm in the Cleveland Suburbs area but it may get forwarded to the correct person.


----------



## nickdawg

Mr. Hookbill Goes to Washington(well, more like Time Warner)! Keep fighting and get us WBNX HD!


----------



## jtscherne

Small detail...


Yes, separate HD agreements are necessary, even when they already carry the analog version (remember when we went crazy years ago when Adelphia didn't offer WOIO?)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12801789
> 
> 
> Small detail...
> 
> 
> Yes, separate HD agreements are necessary, even when they already carry the analog version (remember when we went crazy years ago when Adelphia didn't offer WOIO?)



Yes and with TW you never know. I remember reading in the Plain Dealer last September that they hadn't reached an agreement with FOX on their HD. Of course they did and not much was said about it.


And that WOIO thing with Adelphia. Who can forget?


----------



## jtscherne

Is anyone having major lipsynch issues with Fox HD? I'm on Directv and it's off quite a bit. I even rebooted my machine and it didn't make a difference. I checked a few other channels and didn't notice any problems.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12801887
> 
> 
> Is anyone having major lipsynch issues with Fox HD? I'm on Directv and it's off quite a bit. I even rebooted my machine and it didn't make a difference. I checked a few other channels and didn't notice any problems.



Yes, I made note of it in the game thread. The audio is in sync on the D* FOXE feed and WJW OTA, but out of sync on the D* MPEG4 locals channel 8. I've got an HR20 and H21 both out of sync.


----------



## Rambozo

I'm also having the sync issue with FOX 8 HD over Uverse, with audio about a second ahead. All my other channels are fine. Makes me feel better that it's not a provider issue.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12797690
> 
> 
> I said thanks, I'll consider it after I talk to D* and I'll give you a call back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a waste of time.



Hookbill, I'm assuming that you want to be treated with honesty and respect when you call a company. Everyone wants that.


Perhaps this "waste of time" would not have been so if you treated them as you want to be treated yourself.


Food for thought,


ck


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12801978
> 
> 
> I'm also having the sync issue with FOX 8 HD over Uverse, with audio about a second ahead. All my other channels are fine. Makes me feel better that it's not a provider issue.



Yeah, you're right the audio on D* is ahead, not behind. Maybe that's why my brain is having such a hard time processing this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12802077
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I'm assuming that you want to be treated with honesty and respect when you call a company. Everyone wants that.
> 
> 
> Perhaps this "waste of time" would not have been so if you treated them as you want to be treated yourself.
> 
> 
> Food for thought,
> 
> 
> ck



Sorry bud, but I don't get this statement. I was never rude or anything to anybody specially the last person I talked to. In fact I was trying to be extra nice. I know you draw more flies with honey then you do with vinegar.


Anyway you wern't listening to my call so why do you assume it was something that I said? If you perceived it from my post that isn't the case at all.


Here is an email letter that I wrote to Steve Fry. You tell me what I did wrong.

*Hello Mr. Fry.


I've been a TW customer since you took it over from Adelphia. Basically I've been pretty pleased with your CSR representatives since the acquisition of Adelphia.


This morning I wanted to talk to a representative about WBNX in HD. Yes, I understand that there may be reasons as to why you have not added this channel but I've emailed on 3 seperate occasions and each time I got different responses. One was a canned response saying "We are in negotiations." So several months later I write again and this time I'm told that we can expect something "big" soon and it may contain the station I requested. Vague answers to a specific question.


So today I decided I would call your customer service. I was told that there was a hold time and I would, if I wanted, get a call back. I left the information, I like this system I've used it in the past. When the representative, who's name was Nicki came on the line I told her why I was calling. After I finished she asked me to please hold. I thought she's probably seeking information.


Instead she came back to the phone and said, "sorry about that, how can I help you?" I pictured someone must have come up to her and she put me on hold. I already told her how she can help me. I asked if she was listening and she said, "you said something about an HD channel you wanted." I said yes. While I was in the middle of talking she cut me off and said, "we can't give out any information about HD channels."


This person did not only not have the decency to listen to me when she first picked up the phone, she was rude and interrupted me. I asked for a supervisor but of course no one was available. I told her that she was not a good CSR and that I intended to email someone about her. Then her attitude really picked up. "Do you want my last name, where I work, and my employee number? Because this call is ending soon." I told her to give me the information. She said "hold on" and threw me back into the call que.


Now I'm not sure if you're the person to contact about this but if you are not I'm sure you can contact whomever is responsible for this person.


The call took place at 8:51 Sunday morning January 13, 2008. Again her name was Nicki.


My name is hookbill

my address

Aurora, OH 44202

phone number


And I would appreciate it if you folks would add WBNX HD.


Sincerely,


hookbill*


Remember this is the first person I spoke with.


The second person I spoke with was very nice. She said this is the best she could do for me. I told her thanks and if I decided to switch I would call back.


Now what the heck did I do wrong?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12802314
> 
> 
> Sorry bud, but I don't get this statement. I was never rude or anything to anybody specially the last person I talked to. In fact I was trying to be extra nice. I know you draw more flies with honey then you do with vinegar.
> 
> 
> Anyway you wern't listening to my call so why do you assume it was something that I said? If you perceived it from my post that isn't the case at all.
> 
> 
> Here is an email letter that I wrote to Steve Fry. You tell me what I did wrong.
> 
> *Hello Mr. Fry.
> 
> 
> I've been a TW customer since you took it over from Adelphia. Basically I've been pretty pleased with your CSR representatives since the acquisition of Adelphia.
> 
> 
> This morning I wanted to talk to a representative about WBNX in HD. Yes, I understand that there may be reasons as to why you have not added this channel but I've emailed on 3 seperate occasions and each time I got different responses. One was a canned response saying "We are in negotiations." So several months later I write again and this time I'm told that we can expect something "big" soon and it may contain the station I requested. Vague answers to a specific question.
> 
> 
> So today I decided I would call your customer service. I was told that there was a hold time and I would, if I wanted, get a call back. I left the information, I like this system I've used it in the past. When the representative, who's name was Nicki came on the line I told her why I was calling. After I finished she asked me to please hold. I thought she's probably seeking information.
> 
> 
> Instead she came back to the phone and said, "sorry about that, how can I help you?" I pictured someone must have come up to her and she put me on hold. I already told her how she can help me. I asked if she was listening and she said, "you said something about an HD channel you wanted." I said yes. While I was in the middle of talking she cut me off and said, "we can't give out any information about HD channels."
> 
> 
> This person did not only not have the decency to listen to me when she first picked up the phone, she was rude and interrupted me. I asked for a supervisor but of course no one was available. I told her that she was not a good CSR and that I intended to email someone about her. Then her attitude really picked up. "Do you want my last name, where I work, and my employee number? Because this call is ending soon." I told her to give me the information. She said "hold on" and threw me back into the call que.
> 
> 
> Now I'm not sure if you're the person to contact about this but if you are not I'm sure you can contact whomever is responsible for this person.
> 
> 
> The call took place at 8:51 Sunday morning January 13, 2008. Again her name was Nicki.
> 
> 
> My name is hookbill
> 
> my address
> 
> Aurora, OH 44202
> 
> phone number
> 
> 
> And I would appreciate it if you folks would add WBNX HD.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> hookbill*
> 
> 
> Remember this is the first person I spoke with.
> 
> 
> The second person I spoke with was very nice. She said this is the best she could do for me. I told her thanks and if I decided to switch I would call back.
> 
> 
> Now what the heck did I do wrong?



Looks good to me, I also emailed Mr. Fry inquiring about the sub-par selection of HD channels that TWC offers. I will post the reply here when (or if) I get one.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12801887
> 
> 
> Is anyone having major lipsynch issues with Fox HD? I'm on Directv and it's off quite a bit. I even rebooted my machine and it didn't make a difference. I checked a few other channels and didn't notice any problems.



Yes I had lip sync issues with Fox-HD last night as well. (HR20 and H20 through D*). I didn't notice until "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" was on. I checked my SD TV upstairs and there was no problems with the SD broadcast. Must've been a local Fox-HD problem, not D*.


----------



## HD MM

Hook,


I know you mentioned in the past the reason you're with TW instead of Satellite is that you have line of sight issues. I'm just curious if you actually had an installer out to your house lately to try anyways? If you can't get a sufficient signal, you could always refuse the service and go back to square 1 (TW).


D* new 5lnb dish is quite powerful. I've never had much luck with OTA's as I also live around a ton of trees, however I've NEVER had signal issues with the Direct TV!


Heck, maybe it's worth a try. I hate to see a fellow HD brother continue to suffer with TW's crappy service and lack of HD channels. And not that you need any additional incentive, but D* just reduced the upfront HR20/HR21 cost's to $199 plus an additional $99 rebate for new customers!


----------



## nickdawg

Check this out! Ohio Media Watch did a story about WBNX today.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/0...dom-items.html


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12807559
> 
> 
> Yes I had lip sync issues with Fox-HD last night as well. (HR20 and H20 through D*). I didn't notice until "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" was on. I checked my SD TV upstairs and there was no problems with the SD broadcast. Must've been a local Fox-HD problem, not D*.



There was no problem with the OTA HD broadcast from WJW, so it seems to have been a problem with D*'s re-encoding of the local feed.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rambozo* /forum/post/12801978
> 
> 
> I'm also having the sync issue with FOX 8 HD over Uverse, with audio about a second ahead. All my other channels are fine. Makes me feel better that it's not a provider issue.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12808681
> 
> 
> There was no problem with the OTA HD broadcast from WJW, so it seems to have been a problem with D*'s re-encoding of the local feed.



But Rambozo had the lip-sync problems also via u-Verse. How is this explained?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12808712
> 
> 
> But Rambozo had the lip-sync problems also via u-Verse. How is this explained?



I have no idea, other than U-Verse is also re-encoding to MPEG4 (I think). Maybe WJW feeds D* and U-Verse not OTA, but via fiber or some other method and there was a problem with that path?


----------



## toby10

I can't help with the WJW lip sync mystery as I was not watching WJW.


But I did notice numerous audio drops on CBS HD OTA during the Colts - Chargers game. Was this just OTA? Weather? My tuner? Or did the HD cable/sat guys notice these audio drops as well?


I didn't notice any such drops during commercials, but then I'm usually channel surfing during commercials.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12807754
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> I know you mentioned in the past the reason you're with TW instead of Satellite is that you have line of sight issues. I'm just curious if you actually had an installer out to your house lately to try anyways? If you can't get a sufficient signal, you could always refuse the service and go back to square 1 (TW).
> 
> 
> D* new 5lnb dish is quite powerful. I've never had much luck with OTA's as I also live around a ton of trees, however I've NEVER had signal issues with the Direct TV!
> 
> 
> Heck, maybe it's worth a try. I hate to see a fellow HD brother continue to suffer with TW's crappy service and lack of HD channels. And not that you need any additional incentive, but D* just reduced the upfront HR20/HR21 cost's to $199 plus an additional $99 rebate for new customers!



Not in a year. And it can't be done, no way now how. I've got too many trees.


Anyway, I'm happy with my S3.


----------



## stuart628

Hook I gotta say I am suprised at how they are treating you....My uncle for 3 years in a row now has gotten the satellite buy back specials, even though he dosent have satellite! When it runs out he calls them up and they renew his lower rates, he has never been turned down....maybe cleveland area is a little more touchy though...I should talk to my cousin who works up there as a sub contractor see if there is anything he can do for you!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12813710
> 
> 
> Hook I gotta say I am suprised at how they are treating you....My uncle for 3 years in a row now has gotten the satellite buy back specials, even though he dosent have satellite! When it runs out he calls them up and they renew his lower rates, he has never been turned down....maybe cleveland area is a little more touchy though...I should talk to my cousin who works up there as a sub contractor see if there is anything he can do for you!



FWIW I got a call back from someone at TW in regards to my email. He left a name and a number but he said it was in regards to WBNX. I'll attempt to call him at break tomorrow.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12792018
> 
> 
> Oh, no...the Parma antenna farm stations kick into Akron with no problem.
> 
> 
> The problem is the other way. The station now known as WVPX (Channel 23), even after powering up to 5MW a few years ago, has terrain problems between it and parts of the Cleveland area.
> 
> 
> I know people have talked about it in here...I think that terrain in Richfield is the culprit causing problems from the WVPX site (near Rolling Acres Mall in Copley Township) for many Cleveland area viewers.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, there's no such major terrain obstruction to most of the Akron area to Parma/North Royalton/etc.
> 
> 
> WAOH-LP is A) low power and B) located in Brimfield, near I-76/Rt. 43. Maybe you meant WOAC or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WAOH-LP, of course, rebroadcasts 24/7 on W35AX Cleveland, which is in the Parma farm somewhere.



That was a typo on my part. What I meant to say was we could never get WAKR or WEAO (i.e. 23 & 49). WAOH was not even on the air when I lived in Euclid. I was able to watch WAOH when I first moved to Seven Hills in '96 (this was literally just a few days before W35AX signed on right down the street). I watched the initial sign-on for W35AX.


FYI: there are 3 LPTV stations transmitted off the same tower here in Parma:

35, 53 & 65. And that tower is none other than WBNX's stick! which is almost due north of my by a little over 1 mile.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12814415
> 
> 
> FWIW I got a call back from someone at TW in regards to my email. He left a name and a number but he said it was in regards to WBNX. I'll attempt to call him at break tomorrow.



I hope you get an answer from TWC.


I tried contacting them last year, but only got back a form letter.


I sent a question to the Beacon Journal TV writer a few weeks ago. I worded it so he might be tempted to call sources at TWC and get the scoop on their plans. No word back after 3 weeks.


----------



## AdamPS

Just to add another completely negative TW experience to the list.....

For Christmas, my wife and I received a Tivo HD. I called TW on Christmas Day to schedule an appointment to have 2 cable cards installed. I was told that someone could come out the following Sunday (12/30) to install them between 8-10 AM.


At 9:30 on 12/30, I got a very brief call (w/ a 'blocked' caller ID) telling me that they were out of cable cards and I should call back later in the week. I called TW's (877) number and was told that my cable cards were never even ordered in the first place, and that they usually take 8 business days to order and show up to the installer. I rescheduled my installation appointment for this past Sunday, 1/13, between 10 AM-12 PM.


At 11 AM on 1/13, I got the exact same call from the exact same person, letting me know that they were out of cable cards and that I should call back later in the week. I again called Time Warner immediately, and was told that the installer messed up, and since cable cards are delivered every Monday (huh?) that someone could come out today during any time frame that I wanted. I chose 6-8 PM so I wouldn't have to stay home from work.


I arrived home from work today, and waited....and waited......and waited. When no one had showed up by 8:15, I again called the (877) number. After waiting for 25 minutes, I was disconnected. I called back again, and after a 30 minute wait I finally spoke to someone. He could not give me any answers or reasons for no one showing up, but offered to make me another appointment for tomorrow (even though, as he told me, they were already "jam packed"). I am now scheduled, again, for a 6-8 PM install. I made it clear to the CSR that this was TW's last chance to please me, and that I am done with them if I do not have my cards installed by tomorrow (I'm sure that my complaint was quickly rushed to the supervisor on duty). If I didn't have a $300 Tivo, I would have already called D*.....but I might bite the bullet anyways if things go as I expect again tomorrow. I have worked in Customer Service and I would have been so embarrassed to be on the other end of the phone with myself. I am not usually a fan of "I hate 'X' big business", but I guess everyone needs to draw the line somewhere.


So, does anyone know if I will get any kind of deal by calling D* and telling them that I want to ditch my cable, or am I better off by just ordering online?



EDIT" To be fair, I did get a whopping $20 credit on my bill since they failed to honor their "on-time guarantee". Whoopee.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12802314
> 
> 
> Sorry bud, but I don't get this statement. I was never rude or anything to anybody specially the last person I talked to. In fact I was trying to be extra nice. I know you draw more flies with honey then you do with vinegar.
> 
> 
> Anyway you wern't listening to my call so why do you assume it was something that I said? If you perceived it from my post that isn't the case at all.



Hookbill, no I wasn't listening to your call. What I was listening to was your boasting about calling them up to bluff them about cable vs dish, and then later claiming that it was a waste of time.


----------



## paule123

AdamPS,

I think you should make note of whatever deal D* has online, then call D* directly and see if they can do better. I'm always reading about people here on AVS getting better deals calling them and doing a little wheeling and dealing.


Just googling "directv deals" brings up lots of stuff. Looks like you should at the very least get a free dish, free install, and pay no more than $99 for an HDDVR bundled with the $59/mo channel package. Free HD DVR if you go for all the movie channels.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/12816753
> 
> 
> 
> So, does anyone know if I will get any kind of deal by calling D* and telling them that I want to ditch my cable, or am I better off by just ordering online?



Yes, there are definite deals to be made by calling customer retention to setup a D* install instead of doing it online. It took me 3 separate calls to get what I wanted.....


Along with massive discounts on the hardware (HR20, H20 and a SD Receiver), I also received 2 credits of $10. One for 12 months and the other for 10 months ($220 in total credits), plus 3 months of free HBO, Sho and Starz.


The install was done professionally and right the first time. The installer even redid all my cabling outside of the house to make everything nice and neat.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

I noticed the lip sync issue last night during terminator at 9 but not during prison break at 8. I was watching WJW via Cox HD Cable.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/12819402
> 
> 
> I noticed the lip sync issue last night during terminator at 9 but not during prison break at 8. I was watching WJW via Cox HD Cable.



Noticed it as well again just on Terminator. The news at 10pm was fine. (Watching via D*). Maybe this is a problem with the actual show, since various cable/sat providers have experienced the same thing........


----------



## AdamPS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12819292
> 
> 
> Yes, there are definite deals to be made by calling customer retention to setup a D* install instead of doing it online. It took me 3 separate calls to get what I wanted.....
> 
> 
> Along with massive discounts on the hardware (HR20, H20 and a SD Receiver), I also received 2 credits of $10. One for 12 months and the other for 10 months ($220 in total credits), plus 3 months of free HBO, Sho and Starz.
> 
> 
> The install was done professionally and right the first time. The installer even redid all my cabling outside of the house to make everything nice and neat.



Thanks (and thanks Paule123 as well). I am leaning more and more towards calling D* regardless of how things go today. I am completely fed up with TW.


----------



## stuart628

I know everyone that Directv has the "most" HD now, but Dish is coming on strong....and have announced cleveland locals in HD coming soon... I just say that because I am very happy with my 722 and with Dish service, but I also know that D* is kicking them in the groin right now with HD so if that is a must have then by all means call them. Also remember that while it may be bad now, a tivo and HD service from Time warner is not bad at all, if you have navigator I am sorry, it seems like its getting better just really really slow.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12824994
> 
> 
> I and have announced cleveland locals in HD coming soon... .




Dish has been saying that and I'm not kidding for years. I'm sure it will happen some day but if you think this is something that's new I got some beach front property in Arizona I'd like to talk to you about.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12827134
> 
> 
> Dish has been saying that and I'm not kidding for years. I'm sure it will happen some day but if you think this is something that's new I got some beach front property in Arizona I'd like to talk to you about.



Ya, it's the same with everyone now. Wether it be D*, E*, Toshiba, Sony, Time Warner, ect...ect...ect...

They tell you what you want to hear (lie through their teeth) to string you along for as long as possible... and if they get a bunch of your money along the way, then they've accomplished their goal







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12816773
> 
> 
> Hookbill, no I wasn't listening to your call. What I was listening to was your boasting about calling them up to bluff them about cable vs dish, and then later claiming that it was a waste of time.



























Whatever. If that's what you think, fine.


----------



## hookbill

Here is an email I got from TW as a result of my previouse email.

*I left you a voice mail yesterday in response to an email you sent on Sunday. I had the call you spoke about pulled and personally listened to it. Believe me, what I heard is not the kind of customer service that I expect of our staff. Please accept my apology for the way you were treated. I have taken the appropriate action to make sure that we help that particular agent understand what we expect. I appreciate you bringing the issue to our attention.


Speaking to your specific question about the HD signal of WBNX. We do not currently carry that, as you know. It is our understanding that the station is carrying roughly 12 hours of HD programming on a weekly basis. That is a relatively small amount and we are carefully managing our bandwidth to make sure that we provide our customers with the greatest amount of HD programming available. Having said that, we are working hard to bring as much HD programming as we can to our customers and will be making some announcements later this year. I cannot tell you for sure that WBNX HD will be among those that we carry, but I can tell you that we are looking at all HD programming available in the market.


To answer your question....why should you stay with us versus going to a satellite company, let me offer a few thoughts.

If something breaks, repairs are your problem. With our product, you get free service calls whenever something goes wrong. With a dish, you bear the cost.

Satellite equipment can become obsolete. Technology is changing at a very rapid pace. With Time Warner, you can be sure that we will keep up with technology and take that worry off the table. When you want to upgrade to a newer product or service, we take care of that for you. Simply call and we will make sure that you have the equipment needed to deliver all of our new products.

Satellite dishes are more expensive with each television you hook up. At Time Warner, one subscription brings TV to every set in your home. There are additional charges for any equipment on those sets, but you can get our standard level of service on all sets for no extra monthly charge.

With your interest in local HD channels, you should know that Time Warner is in the best position to add HD services going forward. The satellite companies have very limited capacity to add local HD channels. Over the long run, Time Warner will deliver more product.

Once more, please accept my apology for how you were handled during the call you made. Please contact me directly should you have any further concerns.


Don Jensen

VP Customer Care

Time Warner Cable

Northeast Ohio Division.*


So he says they don't carry it because they don't offer enough HD programming? What, TBS does? I'm talking real HD here.


I didn't get a chance to call him but I will email him back.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ya that 12 hours of HD content is kind-of BS. Nice apology though, that's actually a rare thing now-a-days. Sad that it is, but it is. Every reason he mentioned why to stick with TW is smoke and mirrors in my opinion. Everything is figured into the cost. Of course they'll come to your house and fix everything free of charge, it's included in the bill. That's why TW costs more than satellite.


----------



## hookbill

Here's what I had to say. I should have mentioned that they have TBS in two channels 600 and 800 in my area as well. Forgot about that.

*Dear Mr. Jensen,


You say you want to save bandwith and you don't want to waste it on a channel that only carries 12 hours of HD programming. What you consider wastefull bandwith is really a matter of opinion.


Let's look at TBS HD. Do they really carry that much HD? Much of their "HD" programming is just stretched out standard definition. TNT, which I do watch from time to time does the same.


"My 43"? Just how many shows do they have in HD? Let's see, the local news at 10:00 pm and, I think that's it.


And since you no longer have INHD2, that should have made more bandwith possible. And what about the analog channels that you have moved recently to digital. Analog signals are a huge waste of bandwith and you've moved several channels over to the digital side.


I personally don't watch most of the HD channels you offer. Mojo is a waste of time. Discovery is OK if you have nothing else better to watch, I will compliment it's quality HD.


So why do I want WBNX? 2 shows. Smallville and Supernatural. Those two shows alone make it worth while to me.


When you watch HD you want to see the shows that look and sound the best. Since you deliver these shows in analog only they are in poor quality. Look at the repeats of Smallville on HDnet. Beautiful.


And why isn't WBNX at least available in digital? It is the only local network you don't have in digital.

I'm not trying to be rude but don't blow smoke in my face talking about wasted bandwith. My 43 is the biggest waste of bandwith there is in HD on TW.


And then there's that message you run on the spot where the Tube use to be. We've all read it now. You can take it down and save a bit more bandwith.


As far as your equipment argument goes, I have a TiVo S3 because basically your DVR, the SA 8300 is a complete piece of garbage. You can't even program first run programs on that thing unless it's changed since I dragged it tied to my car bumper back to TW over a year ago.


I would have loved to talked to you in person but just like you I'm busy and during business hours I don't have time to talk about my cable tv.


I really do appreciate you taking the time for the personal response. I hope you don't find my response offensive. I'm just being honest.


Sincerely,*


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, that may be a bit too harsh. It gives the impression that you are yelling the entire time. If your intention is to give him an "earful", then that will do it for sure. If you're looking for some empathy, resulting in maybe a cheper rate or something, you're not going to get it with a letter like that.

However, I do agree on all your points.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12827406
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking to your specific question about the HD signal of WBNX. We do not currently carry that, as you know. It is our understanding that the station is carrying roughly 12 hours of HD programming on a weekly basis. That is a relatively small amount and we are carefully managing our bandwidth to make sure that we provide our customers with the greatest amount of HD programming available. .



Are they kidding? TBS-HD







has NO HD!! Not one show on TBS has been HD since MLB ended. That 12 hours of programming on WBNX beats TBS. Even if TBS had dome HD content, I'd rather watch the hot chicks on "One Tree Hill" and the demons on "Supernatural" than repeats of Raymond and crappy movies. And unlike TBS, WBNX is expanding. WWE is supposed to be going HD this year.


And you make a good point about (NOT)My43. 19's Sleaze Cast at 10 is the only HD show, not worthy of an HD channel. I was afraid Sharon's face would crack my screen!










According to the artical at OMW, eliminating one analog channel frees up enough bandwidth for 2 HD channels. This year TW moved CSPAN2 off analog as well as ESPN Classic in some areas. That _SHOULD_ equal *FOUR* new HD channels. Plus Akron eliminated two analog preview channels. And along with that, there are countless other channels that should be dumped from analog. I'll list a few: Inspiration, Fit TV, GAC, Hallmark, Discovery Health, Lifetime Movies, CNN Headline. That would be 14 more HD channels.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12830521
> 
> 
> According to the artical at OMW, eliminating one analog channel frees up enough bandwidth for 2 HD channels.



Have a link to this article? I'd like to read it - something's bugging me about this 1:2 analog:HD ratio..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12830810
> 
> 
> Have a link to this article? I'd like to read it - something's bugging me about this 1:2 analog:HD ratio..


 http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/0...dom-items.html


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12830521
> 
> 
> And you make a good point about (NOT)My43. 19's Sleaze Cast at 10 is the only HD show, not worthy of an HD channel.



I must now take a station-time-out to chuckle, snort, and guffaw.... For some goofy reason, I'm remembering the days when 43 was "The Star Channel", and the guy two houses down from me was the envy of the neighborhood because he had cable and could get this station....


----------



## HD MM

Warning, Warning! Those ugly U-Verse Cabinets in tree lawns have been reported to systematically explode due to bad batteries!







There has been several confirmed incidents, including one in Cleveland. Those who live near a box, please be forewarned.


See link: here.


----------



## DaMavs

Just to address some of the points the TW exec made contrasting cable to Sat at least regarding my experiences w/D*.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12827406
> 
> 
> Here is an email I got from TW as a result of my previouse email.
> 
> 
> To answer your question....why should you stay with us versus going to a satellite company, let me offer a few thoughts.
> 
> If something breaks, repairs are your problem. With our product, you get free service calls whenever something goes wrong. With a dish, you bear the cost.



D* does offer a service plan for ~$7 per month where all service calls are free as well as DVR replacements. 'Course now that the DVRs are leased the DVR issue isn't as big a deal, but I had a couple HD Tivos replaced when the hard drives failed for free under this plan. Yes, I guess I was paying $7 per month for the priviledge, but I had the option of paying that or not, while TW essentially forces you to pay it.


> Quote:
> Satellite equipment can become obsolete. Technology is changing at a very rapid pace. With Time Warner, you can be sure that we will keep up with technology and take that worry off the table. When you want to upgrade to a newer product or service, we take care of that for you. Simply call and we will make sure that you have the equipment needed to deliver all of our new products.



This can be true - it did cost me $99 to upgrade my MPEG2 devices to MPEG4 under D* which included switching to the new 5 channel feedhorn and 3 HD DVRs, I can't complain a lot, and there don't seem to be any upgrades coming beyond MPEG4 anytime soon. After all Adelphia wanted $75 just to turn on the cable when I inquired about a cable modem a few years ago.


> Quote:
> Satellite dishes are more expensive with each television you hook up. At Time Warner, one subscription brings TV to every set in your home. There are additional charges for any equipment on those sets, but you can get our standard level of service on all sets for no extra monthly charge.



True - D* charges an extra $5 per active receiver. But you can hook up a receiver to multiple TVs (using different outputs) so I have 1 receiver connected via HDMI to my HDTV that also feeds a 2nd TV by composite (very useful when I want to watch 2 games simultaneously). Obviously you have to watch the same channel on both TVs, but how many TVs are watched simultaneously w/unique programming in most houses anyway?


> Quote:
> With your interest in local HD channels, you should know that Time Warner is in the best position to add HD services going forward. The satellite companies have very limited capacity to add local HD channels. Over the long run, Time Warner will deliver more product.



Doesn't D* have more HD capacity than anyone else right now? Currently they don't offer HD LIL versions of 25, 43, 55 & 61 (other than OTA) though so perhaps some of the criticism is valid.


Overall I don't think what the TW wrote was untrue, but there were some partial truths there, or at least not the full story...


----------



## jtscherne

Quote from TW letter:

With your interest in local HD channels, you should know that Time Warner is in the best position to add HD services going forward. The satellite companies have very limited capacity to add local HD channels. Over the long run, Time Warner will deliver more product.



This one is TOTALLY misleading. D* is about to launch another satellite that will pretty much handle local HD. Unlike national channels, it's not like there's going to be an infinite number of local HD channels. As DaMavs stated, once D* adds 43, 55, & 61, there won't be anything else, at least until 25 begins local HD programming, which is unlikely for a LONG time. Given that 61 currently has NO high definition programming, it really only means 2 channels and capacity won't be an issue for them.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaMavs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Satellite dishes are more expensive with each television you hook up. At Time Warner, one subscription brings TV to every set in your home. There are additional charges for any equipment on those sets, but you can get our standard level of service on all sets for no extra monthly charge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True - D* charges an extra $5 per active receiver. But you can hook up a receiver to multiple TVs (using different outputs) so I have 1 receiver connected via HDMI to my HDTV that also feeds a 2nd TV by composite (very useful when I want to watch 2 games simultaneously). Obviously you have to watch the same channel on both TVs, but how many TVs are watched simultaneously w/unique programming in most houses anyway?
Click to expand...


This (like the service plan you mentioned) is also a potential cost savings for the consumer. If I had a bunch of TVs it would likely cost less for me to subscribe to TWC, but since I only have 3, I save some money by subscribing to D*.



> Quote:
> With your interest in local HD channels, you should know that Time Warner is in the best position to add HD services going forward. The satellite companies have very limited capacity to add local HD channels. Over the long run, Time Warner will deliver more product.



This may not be as misleading as some may think. Cable companies only have to retransmit the local stations they have agreements with to for the customers they serve in a market. D* OTOH has to retransmit all of the local stations they have agreements with to all of their customers using their finite number of satellites. Things would be different if TWC had only one head end and had to retransmit all of the locals on their lines, but with the regional head ends they're able to divide up the load.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12827134
> 
> 
> Dish has been saying that and I'm not kidding for years. I'm sure it will happen some day but if you think this is something that's new I got some beach front property in Arizona I'd like to talk to you about.



Yeah I know they made an announcement, but they have been testing Spotbeams at 61.5 and They Said this time we are in the first group to be launched, before announcements were just that cleveland locals were coming...now its they are going to be next...I say all that to say this, I do enjoy Dish network service, but in no way am I trying to sell anything as They are really in a bind right now as far as HD plans go ( I will give you a hint, they have none







)


----------



## stuart628

Hook, I see your last letter as not getting answered...not because you were too rude, but because these people really dont care about us..I think if they really wanted to make a difference, they would come to these forums and answer questions as they know them today, or be more forthcoming with their plans....as I have said before Look at D* very aggressive with their marketing (and they had the plans to back it up!)


----------



## stuart628

okay so I am doing some reading as I am updating a Program on our computer and found this very interesting (this is from an article talking about time warner and how they are changing their internet pricing on avsforum)

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19813387- 



notice them talking about a nationwide backbone for video, meaning could we see all markets have the same channels, HD, VOD and everything (well locals would be different plus local information, but you get the picture)? or am I reading that wrong


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12834281
> 
> 
> Hook, I see your last letter as not getting answered...not because you were too rude, but because these people really dont care about us..I think if they really wanted to make a difference, they would come to these forums and answer questions as they know them today, or be more forthcoming with their plans....as I have said before Look at D* very aggressive with their marketing (and they had the plans to back it up!)



Well, you never know. I did get a response:

*No offense taken....I appreciate the honest feedback.


Don Jensen



This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner

Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential,

or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail

is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which

it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this

E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,

distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents

of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be

unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify

the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any

copy of this E-mail and any printout.*


I left this part in just to show it was from TW. Not that I think any of you would think I was making it up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/12829352
> 
> 
> Hook, that may be a bit too harsh. It gives the impression that you are yelling the entire time. If your intention is to give him an "earful", then that will do it for sure. If you're looking for some empathy, resulting in maybe a cheper rate or something, you're not going to get it with a letter like that.
> 
> However, I do agree on all your points.



First, I honestly was not looking for a rate reduction from TW from these guys. I just wanted my voice heard. I never mentioned in my email anything like, "I would like a lower price" or anything. I just did that with customer service and despite what somebody thought I was just testing to see what they would do.


I actually had a very nice email all set up and ready to go. Then I started thinking about it.


I then started editing. And the more I thought about it the more truthfull I got. I wanted him to know that he wasn't talking to some bozo out there who knows absolutely nothing about HD. While I may not be as smart as some of you guys, I'm not an idiot. And then I saw how lame his excuses were. So I let him have it.


And as you said, I didn't say anything that wasn't true.


As you can see from his "feedback" he really didn't have much of a response. What could he say? I had him by the short hairs.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Short hairs... is that the same as nose hairs?


----------



## canes8301

What did you want his response to be? It sounds like anything less then "We're adding WBNXHD" would have been acceptable.


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12837040
> 
> 
> okay so I am doing some reading as I am updating a Program on our computer and found this very interesting (this is from an article talking about time warner and how they are changing their internet pricing on avsforum)
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19813387-
> 
> 
> 
> notice them talking about a nationwide backbone for video, meaning could we see all markets have the same channels, HD, VOD and everything (well locals would be different plus local information, but you get the picture)? or am I reading that wrong




Another article:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080117/time_...rnet.html?.v=2


----------



## stuart628

I saw that, but I was more interested in this leaked document stating that they want a national backbone for video, meaning if the carolinas get FOODHD, then cleveland should have it too. The document basically stated that once they get the acquisitions then it will be easily accomplished, and they want to do this in 08.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12844092
> 
> 
> I saw that, but I was more interested in this leaked document stating that they want a national backbone for video, meaning if the carolinas get FOODHD, then cleveland should have it too. The document basically stated that once they get the acquisitions then it will be easily accomplished, and they want to do this in 08.



Do you have a link?


----------



## stuart628

see post 11210, or 11215


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *canes8301* /forum/post/12841753
> 
> 
> What did you want his response to be? It sounds like anything less then "We're adding WBNXHD" would have been acceptable.



Oh gee, I don't know. He could have tried to defend his statements after ripped them to shreds. But then he didn't have a defense for that so he said what he said. At least he was man enough to acknowledge my response.


I had no "expectations" from him at all. He threw all his canned responses out there and it just didn't work.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12837878
> 
> 
> First, I honestly was not looking for a rate reduction from TW from these guys. I just wanted my voice heard.



Hmm... funny, I thought I read something from another "Hookbill" who recently wrote -



> Quote:
> So what in the heck does TW have planned? Well, I think the first thing I'm going to do is as soon as I get a chance I plan on calling them and telling them about all these other marvelous choices around and hey isn't my cable bill awful high and why should I stay with them? Hopefully they won't know I'm bluffing because I have the S3 but knowing their CSR's I think that will go over their head.
> 
> 
> They probably will respond with a "generous" roll back for a whole 3 months. At that point I will laugh and tell them I'll call them back probably tomorrow after I call D* and find out when they are coming out. Either they will say "have a nice day" or they will do the smart thing and put me on hold for a few seconds while they pretend to talk to a supervisor and offer me 6 months. I'll tell them I want a year or I'm splitting.



Must've been your twin, hmm?


----------



## nickdawg

What's wrong with this picture?





















Hookbill has the orbs to take on the criminal slime at Time Warner and _HE_ is being attacked? I applaud Mr. Hookbill for speaking up and demanding an answer from Time Warner. Their lack of HD is unacceptable and they should be forced to answer to their customers.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12834281
> 
> 
> I think if they really wanted to make a difference, they would come to these forums and answer questions as they know them today, or be more forthcoming with their plans



Maybe... There are basically two employee classes at places like TWC or any other big business - upper management, and the people under them. Both typically have valid reasons for not posting to forums such as this one. The "little people" don't dare talk about their employer or future plans for fear of losing their job, and management never wants to release any future plans in case things change down the road.


I'm in mgmt where I work - we started developing a new product about 18 months ago that probably will never be released due to "human factor" complications, but news about the project got out. Clients were leaked information saying it would be ready 1Q 2007, which was completely unrealistic. We're still working on it, but... I get calls all the time asking when it will be ready - never sure how to answer them.


I'm not trying to excuse TWC - they certainly have plenty of faults, but I do understand their reasons for not wanting to release too much information about future plans.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12853374
> 
> 
> What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hookbill has the orbs to take on the criminal slime at Time Warner and _HE_ is being attacked? I applaud Mr. Hookbill for speaking up and demanding an answer from Time Warner. Their lack of HD is unacceptable and they should be forced to answer to their customers.



To follow up my previous post, I completely agree... Although I'm sure there's a lot going in TWC-land that we're not aware of, there comes a point when customers get ticked off enough to justify some prompt action on TWC's part.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/12853772
> 
> 
> To follow up my previous post, I completely agree... Although I'm sure there's a lot going in TWC-land that we're not aware of, there comes a point when customers get ticked off enough to justify some prompt action on TWC's part.



WBNX HD should be added, at least. I posted that link to the OMW article earlier and if there's anything to that

"1 analog=2 HD" there should be alot more channels, especially on the legacy system in Akron. We had ESPNC and CSPAN2 moved to digital as well as preview channels # 17 and 96 eliminated. There should be a few more channels added. Even though SDV most likely will not happen anytime soon, there's no excuse for TW's poor service. Even the former Adelphia channel alignment argument is weak. They've had over a year to make progress.


As U-Verse spreads and more HD is added there and DirecTV, I can only see more and more customers leaving. Advabced Fiber network my a--!


----------



## Inundated

I don't get the "they only offer 12 hours of HD programming" response for Time Warner re: WBNX.


Only the fact that all the local news operations have gone HD prevents that statement from being true about ALL THE OTHER over-air networks! And before the local newscasts started going HD, they still added the stations, no?


Meanwhile, as pointed out, WUAB "My 43" has five hours a week in HD, only because they carry their sister station's 10 PM newscast...and unless there are changes coming to MyNetworkTV that haven't been publicized yet, that's not likely to change anytime soon.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12853811
> 
> 
> ...and if there's anything to that
> 
> "1 analog=2 HD" there should be alot more channels, especially on the legacy system in Akron.



Let's walk through this, since it's been thrown out from the blog to here.


A QAM channel on TWC generally carries either two 1080i channels, or up to three 720p feeds, if I remember right, on what would be a single analog channel. Is that correct?


It's been a while since I tuned through QAM. My Fusion5USB HDTV tuner bit the dust, and I'm not replacing it. To tune QAM on my upstairs HDTV, I'd have to disconnect the SA8000HD and run a cable directly into it.


If I remember right, say, channel 113 carried two local HD feeds, WKYC and WVIZ, or something like that.


The SD channels on QAM would be a lot more...I think I remember some of them having over a dozen subchannels.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12863573
> 
> 
> Let's walk through this, since it's been thrown out from the blog to here.
> 
> 
> A QAM channel on TWC generally carries either two 1080i channels, or up to three 720p feeds, if I remember right, on what would be a single analog channel. Is that correct?
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I tuned through QAM. My Fusion5USB HDTV tuner bit the dust, and I'm not replacing it. To tune QAM on my upstairs HDTV, I'd have to disconnect the SA8000HD and run a cable directly into it.
> 
> 
> If I remember right, say, channel 113 carried two local HD feeds, WKYC and WVIZ, or something like that.
> 
> 
> The SD channels on QAM would be a lot more...I think I remember some of them having over a dozen subchannels.



I did a QAM scan on WOW last week with TSReader and the OnAir USB GT and IIRC, there's about 38Mbps per QAM 


Generally there's 2 HD's per QAM on WOW, sometimes 2 HD's + 1 SD.


You are correct, there can be at least a dozen regular SD channels per QAM. I didn't count them all but I easily saw 12 to 16 per QAM, maybe more. PBS will run an SD subchannel in as little as 1.5Mbps, so if the cableco wanted to, they could pack as many as 25 SD channels per QAM. They would be gawdawful for any kind of motion, but it would get the job done.


I've noticed in the last few weeks WOW moving a bunch of stuff out of the analog 80's and 90's, presumably to make more room for HDs. This is where the analog PPV and pornos used to live. I guess WOW has reached the point where those folks need to upgrade to a digital set top box or no more porno.


----------



## nickdawg

Time Warner Akron has:

Two 1080i and two 480i-WKYC and WNEO HD on 101.1/101.3 and Weather Plus and WNEO-DT on 101.2/101.4


Also two 720p and one 480i-WEW-HD and WJW-HD on 104.2 and 104.3 and WOIO-2 on 104.8


Two 1080i-WOIO HD and WUAB HD







on 108.1 and 108.2


----------



## nickdawg

Now that we've cleared up digital vs. HD, what about analog vs. HD? I know getting rid of analog frees up a sizeable amount of bandwidth, but any ideas on an close to exact number? With CSPAN2/ESPNC/ and two preview channels(all analog) gone, how many more HD channels should there be?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12864400
> 
> 
> Time Warner Akron has:
> 
> Two 1080i and two 480i-WKYC and WNEO HD on 101.1/101.3 and Weather Plus and WNEO-DT on 101.2/101.4
> 
> 
> Also two 720p and one 480i-WEW-HD and WJW-HD on 104.2 and 104.3 and WOIO-2 on 104.8
> 
> 
> Two 1080i-WOIO HD and WUAB HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 108.1 and 108.2



And are they showing TBSHD on two different channels? They are here in my area.


Isn't that a waste of bandwith?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12864426
> 
> 
> And are they showing TBSHD on two different channels? They are here in my area.
> 
> 
> Isn't that a waste of bandwith?



Yes, I have it on 546 and 600. Just like HBO and Showtime are on 380/381, 390/391 and 580/581, 590/591. The 300s numbers really don't make sense since all the HD channels are in the 500s. I never use the 300s or # 600.


I was thinking this was the beginning of a standardization but it wouldn't make sense to start the HD line up with TBS. And our HD channels are already situated in the 500s. If any standardization came I would expect to see other areas made to match the legacy system.


I think they went with TBS in two places to have a common number between systems to make promotion easier.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12863526
> 
> 
> I don't get the "they only offer 12 hours of HD programming" response for Time Warner re: WBNX.
> 
> 
> Only the fact that all the local news operations have gone HD prevents that statement from being true about ALL THE OTHER over-air networks! And before the local newscasts started going HD, they still added the stations, no?
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, as pointed out, WUAB "My 43" has five hours a week in HD, only because they carry their sister station's 10 PM newscast...and unless there are changes coming to MyNetworkTV that haven't been publicized yet, that's not likely to change anytime soon.



Unless you also count MyNetwork TV's "superior" HD network feed. I'll never understand why the SD feed does not have a bug on screen but the HD network feed does. Even though everything on MNTV is SD there is still a bug in the right sidebar that slightly hangs over into the picture. If there was ever a good time to "forget to flip the HD switch" it would be on My43.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12864426
> 
> 
> And are they showing TBSHD on two different channels? They are here in my area.
> 
> 
> Isn't that a waste of bandwith?



Looked into this earlier today. Brought up both TBSHD channels on my friend's SA8300HD and went to the diagnostics screen - frequency and A/V program IDs were the same for both channels. Verified this on my TiVo. (Both of us are in the Akron area.)


Unless I'm missing something dumb, this means that the two TBSHD channels are pointing to the same RF "slot", for lack of a better term, and TW isn't actually sending out two separate TBSHD feeds.


At least they got THAT right... Why they're doing it is still a puzzle to me. Maybe TBS is paying them for the second channel appearance to boost ratings...


I'll look at the duplicate HBO and Showtime channels tomorrow. I expect it's the same situation. Using this method, they could have 40 channels assigned to TBSHD or any other digital slot and not use any more bandwidth than a single channel would. (Yes, I'm ignoring the trivial amount of additional bandwidth needed per channel for the program guide, etc.)


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12864426
> 
> 
> And are they showing TBSHD on two different channels? They are here in my area.
> 
> 
> Isn't that a waste of bandwith?



Just because its their on two channel NUMBERS dosent meaning its taking up two channel spots. You can assign a unlimited amount of numbers to a slot. It happens on Dish network all the time, with HD channels in the 9400's and then mapped down (software telling the reciever to map it down to lets say 140 for ESPN, so if you tune to 140 you will get ESPNHD, hit the channel up and you will get channel 140 ESPNSD). there is no extra bandwidth in play as its just virtual numbers assigned to real channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12864945
> 
> 
> Just because its their on two channel NUMBERS dosent meaning its taking up two channel spots. You can assign a unlimited amount of numbers to a slot. It happens on Dish network all the time, with HD channels in the 9400's and then mapped down (software telling the reciever to map it down to lets say 140 for ESPN, so if you tune to 140 you will get ESPNHD, hit the channel up and you will get channel 140 ESPNSD). there is no extra bandwidth in play as its just virtual numbers assigned to real channels.



Good point. I remember seeing that on D* as well where locals(SD) were available at their regular channel slots and then if you went into some crazy area where you would never thiink of goinng they would be there as well.


I'm glad now that I didn't bring up that point in my letter back to TW. :}


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12864720
> 
> 
> Unless you also count MyNetwork TV's "superior" HD network feed. I'll never understand why the SD feed does not have a bug on screen but the HD network feed does. Even though everything on MNTV is SD there is still a bug in the right sidebar that slightly hangs over into the picture. If there was ever a good time to "forget to flip the HD switch" it would be on My43.



The picture itself on HD is upgraded so it is a "superior" picture then the HD feed. But quite honestly that SD digital feed looks a little washed out on my S3. I have my S3 set for "best" quality on the analog feeds and I think that the pq is pretty close.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Even though everything on MNTV is SD...












The last time I checked MNTV they were showing a movie in HD, so the statement that "everything" is SD is not quite true. They did start out with more HD content, however when the "Novella" concept bombed they reverted to what they do best: wresteling







.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12864413
> 
> 
> Now that we've cleared up digital vs. HD, what about analog vs. HD? I know getting rid of analog frees up a sizeable amount of bandwidth, but any ideas on an close to exact number? With CSPAN2/ESPNC/ and two preview channels(all analog) gone, how many more HD channels should there be?



Wouldn't it basically be the same?


The digital feeds on those channels would replace the use of that channel as an analog, I presume...and you can squeeze in two or three HDs per former analog channel. I seem to recall that TWC here can fit three 720p channels in one channel, and I presume the bandwidth for the entire channel is the same digital or analog.


I could be wrong on this, as could others. I'm working on a lack of knowledge for the most part.


One thing is sure - dumping analog channels into digital cable does produce bandwidth savings, which is one big reason cable companies are trying to migrate analog channels wherever possible, and providing "digital" simulcast versions of the local affiliates.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12853374
> 
> 
> What's wrong with this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hookbill has the orbs to take on the criminal slime at Time Warner and _HE_ is being attacked? I applaud Mr. Hookbill for speaking up and demanding an answer from Time Warner. Their lack of HD is unacceptable and they should be forced to answer to their customers.



No attack intended, nickdawg, only looking for consistency and honesty. Read my previous response again with this in mind.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/12869903
> 
> 
> No attack intended, nickdawg, only looking for consistency and honesty. Read my previous response again with this in mind.



You know dude you are so full of it. How dare you attack my honesty. I said with full intention that I wanted to see what kind of deal TW would give me if I threatened to leave. I said they didn't offer me anything. Then you took a totally unrelated post which was a response to an email I received specifically about WBNX and HD and made that seem like I was trying to get something from them. Nothing could be further from the truth.


You have been attacking me and I've chosen not to respond but apparently you have not got the message. You have absolutely no right to question my integrity. So once again I'm going to explain that you are right, I did try to see what TW would do for me. You responded with the statement of "treating others like I would like to be treated" when you had absolutely no idea how I was treated.


The letter I sent to TW was to complain about the way I was treated by customer service and again to ask why I we didn't get WBNX.


Somewhere along the line you decided I wasn't treating someone nice. That was why I said "whatever" in hopes you would drop it. But apparently you can't.


So do me a favor. Drop it now because I don't want to get into a big fight over this. You want to keep it up, then fine I'll bring out a side of my personality you really don't want to see. And that is not a threat that's a promise.


Back off. Anymore comments on this and I'll consider it harassment. And I won't need a mod to intervene. Trust me.


----------



## paule123

FYI, for you D* people, they have activated the "remote booking" option where you can schedule a recording remotely via the D* website. You don't need the phone or internet connection on the HR20/HR21 DVR --- they send the command to record down from the satellite. Pretty cool. They also have a "mobile" site where you can do this from your cellphone.


As far as cable's capability to do this, to quote hookbill's sig line, "don't make me laugh"










I'm liking DirecTV more and more every day.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12871185
> 
> 
> FYI, for you D* people, they have activated the "remote booking" option where you can schedule a recording remotely via the D* website. You don't need the phone or internet connection on the HR20/HR21 DVR --- they send the command to record down from the satellite. Pretty cool. They also have a "mobile" site where you can do this from your cellphone.
> 
> 
> As far as cable's capability to do this, to quote hookbill's sig line, "don't make me laugh"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm liking DirecTV more and more every day.



I thought you could always do that with D*. FWIW you can also do this with TiVo from either their website or www.zap2it.com . I prefer option 2, it's easier to work with.


In addition if you have a Verizon phone you can program your TiVo that way as well.


Now having said all of that I still prefer to program in front of my TV. If there is a conflict of any kind I can see it right away without getting an email or a message on my S3. And as far as using my cell to program, well, small buttons big fingers.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm the exact opposite. I prefer to use a website, mostly because I find it much easier to search the program guide with a real keyboard, rather than having to use direction keys, etc. The D* function works quite well, both on my HD DVR and my SD DVR.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12871463
> 
> 
> I thought you could always do that with D*. FWIW you can also do this with TiVo from either their website or www.zap2it.com . I prefer option 2, it's easier to work with.
> 
> 
> In addition if you have a Verizon phone you can program your TiVo that way as well.
> 
> 
> Now having said all of that I still prefer to program in front of my TV. If there is a conflict of any kind I can see it right away without getting an email or a message on my S3. And as far as using my cell to program, well, small buttons big fingers.


----------



## Adam P

I got a new Panasonic set on Friday night. Unhooked the old Panasonic after my wife went to bed and hooked up the new one. Before I unhooked the old one we had been watching WOIO's HD feed on 19.1. After the new set was hooked up I ran the scan of digital channels and it did not tune in WOIO (actually the old set also tuned in a PBS HD signal on 25.1 I believe; the only channels I was able to get on this one were WEWS, WKYC, WJW, and WUAB). I've run the scan two or three times since then, but still no luck. My old set went to my folks who live in Ashtabula County; I was unable to tune in WOIO on my old set at their house as well.


I have cable through TWC, not using an antenna as I don't have one, but I was previously able to get these couple channels and I'm not now. I'm in South Euclid.


Help please?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/12875460
> 
> 
> I got a new Panasonic set on Friday night. Unhooked the old Panasonic after my wife went to bed and hooked up the new one. Before I unhooked the old one we had been watching WOIO's HD feed on 19.1. After the new set was hooked up I ran the scan of digital channels and it did not tune in WOIO (actually the old set also tuned in a PBS HD signal on 25.1 I believe; the only channels I was able to get on this one were WEWS, WKYC, WJW, and WUAB). I've run the scan two or three times since then, but still no luck. My old set went to my folks who live in Ashtabula County; I was unable to tune in WOIO on my old set at their house as well.
> 
> 
> I have cable through TWC, not using an antenna as I don't have one, but I was previously able to get these couple channels and I'm not now. I'm in South Euclid.
> 
> 
> Help please?



I'm not an OTA person but if you could get it on one, why not the other?


I know that WVIZ is next to impossible to receive OTA so if you were getting that my assumption is, and your probably not going to like this, you had a better OTA tuner on your old set.


Since you do have cable though if you're paying for the HD channels you might as well just use them. OTA as far as I'm concerned is good for picking up other stations in different areas so you don't have to put up with weather breaks (OMG, it snows in N.E. Ohio!).










Hang tight though. I'm sure someone else may come in with a better answer.


----------



## Adam P

That's the problem though, is that I can't get them over my cable connection. I used to be able to on my old set (you're right, it wouldn't surprise me that the old one had a better tuner, though it was only a year old and they're both Panasonics). I'm trying to pick them up with the set's built-in QAM (I think that's the one that you use to tune in digital signals?) tuner.


I know my question is worded kind of strangely, but I'm not an uber-technical guy when it comes to the HD stuff.


Thanks!


Edit: I guess that "in the clear" is the term for the channels I'm talking about. Maybe that helps?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Adam P,


You need to call TW and tell them of your situation. Tell them that you got a new HDTV and can't get all the channels that you did on your old one. Try NOT to get into the QAM discussion, as the CSR will probably be too dumb/ignorant to even know what that is. Tell them you want a technincian to come to your house and check the line. More than likely you need an amplifier on you line because the tuner in your new tv isn't as strong as the one in the old tv. Not really the fault of the tv, it's more than likely because you are getting a weak signal from TW.

Your objective will be to get a technician to your house to check the line. When he gets there, tell him you think you need an amplifier on your line and probably a new "drop" too. The drop is the line between your house and the street.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12871185
> 
> 
> FYI, for you D* people, they have activated the "remote booking" option where you can schedule a recording remotely via the D* website. You don't need the phone or internet connection on the HR20/HR21 DVR --- they send the command to record down from the satellite. Pretty cool. They also have a "mobile" site where you can do this from your cellphone.
> 
> 
> As far as cable's capability to do this, to quote hookbill's sig line, "don't make me laugh"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm liking DirecTV more and more every day.



Thanks Paule123. This is great news! It's definitely a very cool feature that will make things super convenient. BTW, I just tested it by setting to record a show that was currently airing and from the time I programed it online from the time I saw the DVR record button light up on the HR20 was less than 2 seconds flat!!!!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12871463
> 
> 
> I thought you could always do that with D*. FWIW you can also do this with TiVo from either their website or www.zap2it.com . I prefer option 2, it's easier to work with.
> 
> 
> In addition if you have a Verizon phone you can program your TiVo that way as well.
> 
> 
> Now having said all of that I still prefer to program in front of my TV. *If there is a conflict of any kind I can see it right away without getting an email or a message on my S3.* And as far as using my cell to program, well, small buttons big fingers.




Hookbill, when you setup the record from the internet, it gives you two options:


1) Record if possible. (Only if there are no other recordings scheduled for that time slot.)

2) Definitely record. (Make this a priority over any other recordings.)


Also, the key to this feature is that the D* DVR doesn't even have to be connected to the internet/phone to achieve this!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/12875969
> 
> 
> Hookbill, when you setup the record from the internet, it gives you two options:
> 
> 
> 1) Record if possible. (Only if there are no other recordings scheduled for that time slot.)
> 
> 2) Definitely record. (Make this a priority over any other recordings.)
> 
> 
> Also, the key to this feature is that the D* DVR doesn't even have to be connected to the internet/phone to achieve this!



We have pretty much the same options with the S3, and though I'm not certain I think you may be able to do this through a phone line. What it will do is move whatever your recording to the top of the "to do list." But since I have like 50 season passes I'm never sure if I really want to do this.


Remember when downloads for your D* Receiver use to come in by phone? That could tie up your phone for a good hour or so.










Anyway, getting this done by the dish is cool. I just thought you could always do those things.


----------



## extremegamer

Was anyone else experiencing lip sync issues with Fox 8 tonight, during the NFL Pre-Game? The commercials were fine, only the pregame so far. Every other channel is fine as well. If this keeps up, the Super Bowl could suck.


Anyway, I'm on U-Verse in NE Ohio.


----------



## hookbill

Nope, looked fine to me.


----------



## extremegamer

Weird, my buddy on Time Warner down the street noticed it as well. Oh well, it's fine during commercials.


----------



## stuart628

didnt notice here OTA through Dish 722 in Akron.


----------



## jtscherne

As reported in the Ohio Media Watch:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/0...new-stuff.html 


STO will broadcast all regular season games in HD. Along with the WKYC and any Sunday ESPN games, this means that almost all the Indians games will be in HD this year. The only exception? Possibly Fox. During the regular season, Fox did not broadcast all the Saturday afternoon games in HD. I haven't read whether this will be different this year. I also forgot to mention that TBS's national baseball package starts in 2008, so I assume all of their games will be in HD.


----------



## Inundated

I'm also wondering if Fox is making any noise about doing regular season games in HD this coming season.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also forgot to mention that TBS's national baseball package starts in 2008, so I assume all of their games will be in HD.



I believe it was announced that would be the case, somewhere, when TBS HD launched. And it's already holding a place on the TWC lineup!


----------



## nickdawg

Thanks for nothing Time Warner NE Ohio! I found this info at TW Albany about the "digitized channels. http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...482&MarketID=5 



> Quote:
> Q: How does this upgrade work?
> 
> 
> A: This upgrade, sometimes referred to as Digital Simulcast, is enabled by digitally encoding the analog channels in the head end. In some cases, the networks digitally encode the channels at their location.





> Quote:
> Q: How has Digital Cable been upgraded?
> 
> 
> A: As a result of our latest network upgrade, all of our commercially available channels will be delivered in Digital Cable. This state-of-the-art digital format enables customers who lease digital set-top boxes to receive even better picture and sound quality on their TV channels at no extra charge. These improvements may be noticeable on channels 1-100, which were previously transmitted in analog format.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12892366
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing Time Warner NE Ohio! I found this info at TW Albany about the "digitized channels. http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...482&MarketID=5



Are you certain that TWC-NEO doesn't do this already? I know TWC-Cinci offered a completely digital simulcast for digital cable subscribers. If you can get into the diagnostic mode for your box, you can see if the channel you're watching has a Program ID (PID) to go along with the frequency. If each channel has a PID, then you have a digital simulcast. Now, this could be different for those former Comcast or Adelphia customers in NEO from those who were consistently TWC customers, but it's hard to say.


I'm not sure why Albany seems to be the only region that advertises this feature, but I'm pretty sure they are.


----------



## paule123

ATT U-Verse has launched VOIP service (available in Detroit area only)

http://att.com/uverse/voice 


Looks like it's $25 unlimited when combined with UVerse TV and Internet service. ($40 minus $15 bundle discount)


----------



## Rambozo

To those who've been having sync issues with Fox 8, it appears to be a problem upstream with Fox. I called into Uverse when it was severe, and they knew the problem was occuring, and said it was coming in from the national feed that way.


This may explain why it's appearing on multiple providers. Take their blame with a few grains of salt as well.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12893748
> 
> 
> ATT U-Verse has launched VOIP service (available in Detroit area only)
> 
> http://att.com/uverse/voice
> 
> 
> Looks like it's $25 unlimited when combined with UVerse TV and Internet service. ($40 minus $15 bundle discount)



$ 25.00 seems to be the benchmark for most VOIP services. I personally know at least 20 people (myself included) with VOIP spread over about 8 different providers and all are $ 25.00 unlimited local & LD (plus the ***** taxes of course).


They will then usually offer a second VOIP line for about half ($ 12.00) of the original VOIP line, should you need a second line.


----------



## Ben Music

Please help me if you can.


Do any of you former Comcast people out there still have a motorola 6412/6416 cable box? If so can you please tell me how to turn off the closed caption feature. I don't know how it got turned on, but when I turned on the box this afternoon, there it was, and I can't figure out how to turn it off.


Thank you in advance,

Ben Music


----------



## jtscherne

Here's a link to the user guide. It looks like the information is on pages 17-20.

http://broadband.motorola.com/noflas...2659-001-a.pdf


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/12899781
> 
> 
> Here's a link to the user guide. It looks like the information is on pages 17-20.
> 
> http://broadband.motorola.com/noflas...2659-001-a.pdf



Thanks for your help. I went thru the manual and found a few hints but nothing seemed to work. As a last resort, I e-mailed Moto support. Maybe they can solve the mystery for me.


Thanks again,

Ben Music


----------



## dj9

Time Warner in Green has had digital simulcast since at least mid-2006. It was advertised on the bill around that time, but knowing Time Warner's communications, they may have implemented it earlier (I did not have digital cable before mid-2006). I believe it was implemented in the Akron and Canton areas around the same time; someone I know in Canton had digital simulcast channels in October 2006 or earlier.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I picked up my first QAM-capable set a couple of weeks ago (A Samsung 50" plasma in case anybody cares







), and I've spent some time going through the QAM channels available through Armstrong Cable in Medina. Mostly for future searchability, I thought I'd share what I've found.


I do not subscribe to any of the movie channels, so I don't know if any of those might be in the clear. Also, I know very little about this, so I have no idea if other sets would number the channels differently. All of the stations listed below come through perfectly fine for me.


It's interesting that there are a few changes from what's available on the analog feeds (2-77). Since that lineup is readily available online, I didn't feel the need to type it in again. One thing that I did find interesting today, though, was that Armstrong advertises on their website that WSEE CBS out of Erie, PA, is being carried on Channel 2. Since they dropped the HBO feed on analog 2 a few months ago, Armstrong has been running Sci-Fi on that channel. As of tonight, they still have Sci-Fi running. But I wonder if they're getting ready to carry a new CBS station?


All stations are SD unless otherwise noted.


Anyway, here's what I found:


82-1 ESPN

82-2 Fox News

82-3 CNBC

82-4 CMT

82-5 Travel

82-6 Comedy

82-7 Lifetime

82-8 AMC

82-9 HGTV

82-10 Discovery

82-11 FX

82-12 Bravo

83-1 ESPN2

83-2 MSNBC

83-3 CNN Headline News

83-4 MTV

83-5 USA

83-6 ABC Family

83-7 E!

83-8 A&E

83-9 Animal Planet

83-10 Nickelodeon

83-11 Spike

83-12 TruTV

84-1 Cartoon Network

84-2 CNN

84-3 The Weather Channel

84-4 VH1

84-5 TLC

84-6 History

84-7 TV Land

84-8 TNT

84-9 Food

84-10 TBS

84-11 WE TV

84-12 Sci-Fi

86-2 (PPV / VOD?)

86-3 (PPV / VOD?)

86-4 (PPV / VOD?)

86-6 (PPV / VOD?)

86-7 (PPV / VOD?)

86-9 (PPV / VOD?)

89-1 WKYC NBC

89-2 Fox Sports Net

89-4 Info

89-5 EWTN

89-6 WOAC Independent

89-7 (Armstrong Info?)

89-8 TV Guide

89-9 Local Access (Medina 36)

89-11 Sports Time Ohio

89-12 WGN

90-1 WEWS ABC

90-2 WUAB MyTV

90-3 WJW Fox 8

90-4 WVIZ PBS

90-5 WNEO PBS

90-6 Inspiration

90-7 WGN

90-8 WOIO CBS

90-9 WQHS Univision

90-10 FitTV

90-11 ION

90-12 WBNX The CW

91-1 ShopNBC

91-2 (unknown - showing infomercials every time)

91-3 Pentagon Channel

91-4 Home Shopping Network

91-5 C-Span

91-6 Disney

91-7 TCM

91-8 Nicktoons Network

91-9 QVC

91-10 (Armstrong Info?)

105-1 WKYC-DT NBC (1080i)

105-2 WOIO-DT CBS (1080i)

106-1 WJW-DT Fox (720p)

106-100 WEWS-DT ABC (720p)

112-13 Video On Demand Preview (upper right corner only)

118-1 Local Access (Medina 36)

118-2 (Blank or scrambled)

119-1 (Blank or scrambled)


----------



## dleising

Wow thats quite a vast selection of QAM channels! TW just gives me the locals, if I am lucky maybe one other...


----------



## beaver2672




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12901385
> 
> 
> I picked up my first QAM-capable set a couple of weeks ago (A Samsung 50" plasma in case anybody cares
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and I've spent some time going through the QAM channels available through Armstrong Cable in Medina. Mostly for future searchability, I thought I'd share what I've found.
> 
> 
> I do not subscribe to any of the movie channels, so I don't know if any of those might be in the clear. Also, I know very little about this, so I have no idea if other sets would number the channels differently. All of the stations listed below come through perfectly fine for me.
> 
> 
> It's interesting that there are a few changes from what's available on the analog feeds (2-77). Since that lineup is readily available online, I didn't feel the need to type it in again. One thing that I did find interesting today, though, was that Armstrong advertises on their website that WSEE CBS out of Erie, PA, is being carried on Channel 2. Since they dropped the HBO feed on analog 2 a few months ago, Armstrong has been running Sci-Fi on that channel. As of tonight, they still have Sci-Fi running. But I wonder if they're getting ready to carry a new CBS station?
> 
> 
> All stations are SD unless otherwise noted.
> 
> 
> Anyway, here's what I found:
> 
> 
> 82-1 ESPN
> 
> 82-2 Fox News
> 
> 82-3 CNBC
> 
> 82-4 CMT
> 
> 82-5 Travel
> 
> 82-6 Comedy
> 
> 82-7 Lifetime
> 
> 82-8 AMC
> 
> 82-9 HGTV
> 
> 82-10 Discovery
> 
> 82-11 FX
> 
> 82-12 Bravo
> 
> 83-1 ESPN2
> 
> 83-2 MSNBC
> 
> 83-3 CNN Headline News
> 
> 83-4 MTV
> 
> 83-5 USA
> 
> 83-6 ABC Family
> 
> 83-7 E!
> 
> 83-8 A&E
> 
> 83-9 Animal Planet
> 
> 83-10 Nickelodeon
> 
> 83-11 Spike
> 
> 83-12 TruTV
> 
> 84-1 Cartoon Network
> 
> 84-2 CNN
> 
> 84-3 The Weather Channel
> 
> 84-4 VH1
> 
> 84-5 TLC
> 
> 84-6 History
> 
> 84-7 TV Land
> 
> 84-8 TNT
> 
> 84-9 Food
> 
> 84-10 TBS
> 
> 84-11 WE TV
> 
> 84-12 Sci-Fi
> 
> 86-2 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-3 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-4 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-6 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-7 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-9 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 89-1 WKYC NBC
> 
> 89-2 Fox Sports Net
> 
> 89-4 Info
> 
> 89-5 EWTN
> 
> 89-6 WOAC Independent
> 
> 89-7 (Armstrong Info?)
> 
> 89-8 TV Guide
> 
> 89-9 Local Access (Medina 36)
> 
> 89-11 Sports Time Ohio
> 
> 89-12 WGN
> 
> 90-1 WEWS ABC
> 
> 90-2 WUAB MyTV
> 
> 90-3 WJW Fox 8
> 
> 90-4 WVIZ PBS
> 
> 90-5 WNEO PBS
> 
> 90-6 Inspiration
> 
> 90-7 WGN
> 
> 90-8 WOIO CBS
> 
> 90-9 WQHS Univision
> 
> 90-10 FitTV
> 
> 90-11 ION
> 
> 90-12 WBNX The CW
> 
> 91-1 ShopNBC
> 
> 91-2 (unknown - showing infomercials every time)
> 
> 91-3 Pentagon Channel
> 
> 91-4 Home Shopping Network
> 
> 91-5 C-Span
> 
> 91-6 Disney
> 
> 91-7 TCM
> 
> 91-8 Nicktoons Network
> 
> 91-9 QVC
> 
> 91-10 (Armstrong Info?)
> 
> 105-1 WKYC-DT NBC (1080i)
> 
> 105-2 WOIO-DT CBS (1080i)
> 
> 106-1 WJW-DT Fox (720p)
> 
> 106-100 WEWS-DT ABC (720p)
> 
> 112-13 Video On Demand Preview (upper right corner only)
> 
> 118-1 Local Access (Medina 36)
> 
> 118-2 (Blank or scrambled)
> 
> 119-1 (Blank or scrambled)



Exactly why I love being on Armstrong!!


Has anyone heard any more rumblings of Copper over Glass that they are rolling out in PA? Is it coming to Medina too!!


----------



## Inundated

TWC in Cleveland (ex-Adelphia) does do digital simulcast, as discussed here many times... for the moment, generally it's only five of the local stations (3/5/8/19/43).


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12892366
> 
> 
> Thanks for nothing Time Warner NE Ohio! I found this info at TW Albany



Relax. AFAIK, this just means the analog channels are being sent in digital (not necessarily encrypted) form along with their analog counterparts. I noticed this a few months ago when TWC Akron added FoodTV at channel 714 - it was still at analog 43, but the 714 channel was much crisper. Recently, the 43 and 714 channels seem to pull from the same digital feed on my SA8300, but the analog 43 is still available.


----------



## HDTD

Anyone know when Cox Cleveland will be adding the Travel Channel HD?


It debuted January 15, and it's a network owned by Cox Communications. The Travel Channel HD site advises it's coming, but gives no date.


Like Discovery and National Geographic, it seems like a channel meant for HD.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12901385
> 
> 
> I picked up my first QAM-capable set a couple of weeks ago (A Samsung 50" plasma in case anybody cares
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and I've spent some time going through the QAM channels available through Armstrong Cable in Medina. Mostly for future searchability, I thought I'd share what I've found.
> 
> 
> I do not subscribe to any of the movie channels, so I don't know if any of those might be in the clear. Also, I know very little about this, so I have no idea if other sets would number the channels differently. All of the stations listed below come through perfectly fine for me.
> 
> 
> It's interesting that there are a few changes from what's available on the analog feeds (2-77). Since that lineup is readily available online, I didn't feel the need to type it in again. One thing that I did find interesting today, though, was that Armstrong advertises on their website that WSEE CBS out of Erie, PA, is being carried on Channel 2. Since they dropped the HBO feed on analog 2 a few months ago, Armstrong has been running Sci-Fi on that channel. As of tonight, they still have Sci-Fi running. But I wonder if they're getting ready to carry a new CBS station?
> 
> 
> All stations are SD unless otherwise noted.
> 
> 
> Anyway, here's what I found:
> 
> 
> 82-1 ESPN
> 
> 82-2 Fox News
> 
> 82-3 CNBC
> 
> 82-4 CMT
> 
> 82-5 Travel
> 
> 82-6 Comedy
> 
> 82-7 Lifetime
> 
> 82-8 AMC
> 
> 82-9 HGTV
> 
> 82-10 Discovery
> 
> 82-11 FX
> 
> 82-12 Bravo
> 
> 83-1 ESPN2
> 
> 83-2 MSNBC
> 
> 83-3 CNN Headline News
> 
> 83-4 MTV
> 
> 83-5 USA
> 
> 83-6 ABC Family
> 
> 83-7 E!
> 
> 83-8 A&E
> 
> 83-9 Animal Planet
> 
> 83-10 Nickelodeon
> 
> 83-11 Spike
> 
> 83-12 TruTV
> 
> 84-1 Cartoon Network
> 
> 84-2 CNN
> 
> 84-3 The Weather Channel
> 
> 84-4 VH1
> 
> 84-5 TLC
> 
> 84-6 History
> 
> 84-7 TV Land
> 
> 84-8 TNT
> 
> 84-9 Food
> 
> 84-10 TBS
> 
> 84-11 WE TV
> 
> 84-12 Sci-Fi
> 
> 86-2 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-3 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-4 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-6 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-7 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 86-9 (PPV / VOD?)
> 
> 89-1 WKYC NBC
> 
> 89-2 Fox Sports Net
> 
> 89-4 Info
> 
> 89-5 EWTN
> 
> 89-6 WOAC Independent
> 
> 89-7 (Armstrong Info?)
> 
> 89-8 TV Guide
> 
> 89-9 Local Access (Medina 36)
> 
> 89-11 Sports Time Ohio
> 
> 89-12 WGN
> 
> 90-1 WEWS ABC
> 
> 90-2 WUAB MyTV
> 
> 90-3 WJW Fox 8
> 
> 90-4 WVIZ PBS
> 
> 90-5 WNEO PBS
> 
> 90-6 Inspiration
> 
> 90-7 WGN
> 
> 90-8 WOIO CBS
> 
> 90-9 WQHS Univision
> 
> 90-10 FitTV
> 
> 90-11 ION
> 
> 90-12 WBNX The CW
> 
> 91-1 ShopNBC
> 
> 91-2 (unknown - showing infomercials every time)
> 
> 91-3 Pentagon Channel
> 
> 91-4 Home Shopping Network
> 
> 91-5 C-Span
> 
> 91-6 Disney
> 
> 91-7 TCM
> 
> 91-8 Nicktoons Network
> 
> 91-9 QVC
> 
> 91-10 (Armstrong Info?)
> 
> 105-1 WKYC-DT NBC (1080i)
> 
> 105-2 WOIO-DT CBS (1080i)
> 
> 106-1 WJW-DT Fox (720p)
> 
> 106-100 WEWS-DT ABC (720p)
> 
> 112-13 Video On Demand Preview (upper right corner only)
> 
> 118-1 Local Access (Medina 36)
> 
> 118-2 (Blank or scrambled)
> 
> 119-1 (Blank or scrambled)



If this is truly the case, why would anyone subscribing to Armstrong ever sign up for anything more than the lowest cost basic cable. With a QAM tuner, you could get everything offered on Extended Basic and save $40 to $50 per month.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/12908895
> 
> 
> If this is truly the case, why would anyone subscribing to Armstrong ever sign up for anything more than the lowest cost basic cable. With a QAM tuner, you could get everything offered on Extended Basic and save $40 to $50 per month.




As I said before, I'm note sure how QAM works exactly. But I already subscribe to everything Armstrong offers except the movie channels. Is QAM available to everyone on the system regardless of tier, or are they "cleared" based on the package you carry?


And this is certainly not all of the stations offered on their extended tiers. It's not even all that are offered on the basic tier. Quite a few, yes. But not all.


It may ask you for a zip code (you can put in 44256), but here is their published channel lineup .


----------



## stuart628

can someone with time warner confirm for me that Nick Noggin and Nick N are two seperate channels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12910673
> 
> 
> can someone with time warner confirm for me that Nick Noggin and Nick N are two seperate channels?



I don't think they are. I don't see it in my line up. Just Nick Noggin. They probably abbreviated it.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually they are separate channels. See the wikipedia entry below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickelodeon_(TV_channel )


The N replaced Nick Gas.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12910673
> 
> 
> can someone with time warner confirm for me that Nick Noggin and Nick N are two seperate channels?



I believe they are now two separate channels officially. Noggin used to run from 6 am to 6 pm (toddler programming), and the N used to run from 6 pm to 6 am (tween programming). I'm pretty sure they are now dedicated full-time channels as of a couple of months ago.

http://www.the-n.com/ 


and

http://www.noggin.com/ 


I'm not sure whether TW carries both, but, not to sound like a total Armstrong fanboy (even though I am), they carry both channels separately.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/12894508
> 
> 
> $ 25.00 seems to be the benchmark for most VOIP services. I personally know at least 20 people (myself included) with VOIP spread over about 8 different providers and all are $ 25.00 unlimited local & LD (plus the ***** taxes of course).
> 
> 
> They will then usually offer a second VOIP line for about half ($ 12.00) of the original VOIP line, should you need a second line.



I don't know why ATT is advertising a $40 ala carte price for VOIP when in fact you can't get their UVerse VOIP without having UVerse Internet or UVerse TV. Maybe there's some legal reason they need to mention the $40 price. It certainly isn't smart marketing.


They offer a bundle discount of $10 with one other service, and $15 with two other services. So they hit the competitive price point at $30 and $25 respectively.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12913729
> 
> 
> I don't know why ATT is advertising a $40 ala carte price for VOIP when in fact you can't get their UVerse VOIP without having UVerse Internet or UVerse TV. Maybe there's some legal reason they need to mention the $40 price. It certainly isn't smart marketing.
> 
> 
> They offer a bundle discount of $10 with one other service, and $15 with two other services. So they hit the competitive price point at $30 and $25 respectively.



Yeah, that pricing does seem silly. I suppose they are going for the package deals to show "greater savings" to the customer from inflated starting price points.


It's kinda like the situations when you see "50% OFF, today only". When, if printed honestly, it should read "50% OFF our already outrageously inflated retail prices". ex: Even with a 50% off sale at Radio Shack it is still 200% more than what I can pay for the same item elsewhere.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12909955
> 
> 
> As I said before, I'm note sure how QAM works exactly. But I already subscribe to everything Armstrong offers except the movie channels. Is QAM available to everyone on the system regardless of tier, or are they "cleared" based on the package you carry?
> 
> 
> And this is certainly not all of the stations offered on their extended tiers. It's not even all that are offered on the basic tier. Quite a few, yes. But not all.
> 
> 
> It may ask you for a zip code (you can put in 44256), but here is their published channel lineup .



Your views on QAM "in the clear" stations are incorrect. Not sure what you mean by "I already subscribe to eveyrthing Armstrong offers." Does that mean basic cable, digital cable or HD service?


QAM channels in the clear are basically channels you can get if you don't already subscribe to the digital and HD tier. Most places only offer the locals in HD, and occasionaly some "extras." For example, in old adelphia on the east side of Cleveland, I can get TNT-HD, DSC-HD, Bonus-HD, and a couple digital QVC's via QAM. I pay only $8 a month for the lifeline tier, as apposed to "everything Amrstong (or TW) offers," which I imagine is much more than $8/mo. Hope this helps.


----------



## stuart628

I know they are seperate channels, I just didnt know if Time warner Carries both, right not Dish carries both, but at the same way as they always have (noggin 6-6, with n 6p-6a) Last night my Son was watching noggin, and it switched in the middle of a program to N, and the tears came..but thanks guys for your help so far.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/12919291
> 
> 
> Your views on QAM "in the clear" stations are incorrect. Not sure what you mean by "I already subscribe to eveyrthing Armstrong offers." Does that mean basic cable, digital cable or HD service?
> 
> 
> QAM channels in the clear are basically channels you can get if you don't already subscribe to the digital and HD tier. Most places only offer the locals in HD, and occasionaly some "extras." For example, in old adelphia on the east side of Cleveland, I can get TNT-HD, DSC-HD, Bonus-HD, and a couple digital QVC's via QAM. I pay only $8 a month for the lifeline tier, as apposed to "everything Amrstong (or TW) offers," which I imagine is much more than $8/mo. Hope this helps.




Thanks for the info. I've had an HD set for about 7 years, but this is the first time I've made my way into the QAM world. I thought "in the clear" meant "unscrambled" or "available." I guess I was partly right.


I subscribe to basic, expanded basic, and the HD service. Everything above basic is digital and requires a cable box. I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with the channels that I was able to receive via QAM or if all QAM channels came to everybody regardless of the programming tier. But you answered that. Thanks.


How does the PPV / VOD stuff work via QAM? The other night I was clearly seeing some VOD programming that someone else had "purchased." How far does the circle go in terms of which neighbor was watching? And tonight I did a test by authorizing a VOD program on the DVR upstairs. I wasn't able to find that program on any of the QAM channels that had been carrying the VOD stuff the night before.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12919378
> 
> 
> Last night my Son was watching noggin, and it switched in the middle of a program to N, and the tears came..



Aww, man, I'm sorry. As a father of 7- and 5-year-old boys and 10 month old daughter, I feel your pain.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/12919378
> 
> 
> I know they are seperate channels, I just didnt know if Time warner Carries both, right not Dish carries both, but at the same way as they always have (noggin 6-6, with n 6p-6a) Last night my Son was watching noggin, and it switched in the middle of a program to N, and the tears came..but thanks guys for your help so far.



Time Warner has both. Noggin is still on channel 125 and The N took over the slot vacated by Nick GAS on channel 143. Both channels run 24 hours of their programming.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12922852
> 
> 
> How does the PPV / VOD stuff work via QAM? The other night I was clearly seeing some VOD programming that someone else had "purchased." How far does the circle go in terms of which neighbor was watching? And tonight I did a test by authorizing a VOD program on the DVR upstairs. I wasn't able to find that program on any of the QAM channels that had been carrying the VOD stuff the night before.



In order for your test to work, you would have to order a VOD program, have it playing, then go to your QAM TV and do a complete QAM re-scan of all channels. Then you would probably see it.


Let's say the cable company designates QAM channels 101 through 105 for VOD, and each of those has 12 subchannels. Your VOD program could be assigned to any of 60 subchannels (5 x 12 = 60)


----------



## GregF2

Sure wish the Cavs/Fox SportsNet Ohio would step up like the Indians and show most of their games in HD. It is terrible watching them in sd - almost not even worth watching it. They seem like the a progressive franchise, so you think they would be a leader in offering HD games.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12934412
> 
> 
> Sure wish the Cavs/Fox SportsNet Ohio would step up like the Indians and show most of their games in HD. It is terrible watching them in sd - almost not even worth watching it. They seem like the a progressive franchise, so you think they would be a leader in offering HD games.



Yeah, I remember when Dan Gilbert bought the team there was some talk of the Cavs going all HD, but that never happened. Fox Sports Net is supposed to be near completion on a new network center in Houston that can handle all the HD feeds to/from all the FSN regions. We shall see.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/12934412
> 
> 
> Sure wish the Cavs/Fox SportsNet Ohio would step up like the Indians and show most of their games in HD. It is terrible watching them in sd - almost not even worth watching it. They seem like the a progressive franchise, so you think they would be a leader in offering HD games.



I have to be honest here and I know this will probably get some of you guys p.o.'d because I know how dedicated you are to your Cleveland teams. Before I say this I will say you guys are very dedicated fans, better then the ones I've seen when I lived in L.A.


But as you are aware the Lakers have had some pretty good dynasties over the past 30 years. Now they are not at that level at this time but they are a true "big city" team. "Big city" teams get better programming then a city like Cleveland.


Take a look here . Notice that most of the the televised games arn't even on cable, they are on the local channel 9 station KCAL. Also notice that all these games are televised in HD.


I said a few years ago that LeBron would not stay that long in Cleveland. I don't know if he will go to the Knicks just because they are in New York but he certainly can make a heck of a lot more money in New York or L.A. And if the Lakers ever decide they want him and he's available, he will leave. There is no way that the Cavs can pay him what the Lakers can. If he leaves you will be stuck with a really sub par team. LeBron is really the team. You put him on a team with a couple of other Superstars and he will really take off.


And at that point do you really think you will get more Cavalier games in HD? I don't.


OK commence the rock throwing now but hey, I'm not the one wearing a Yankee hat and selling shoes in NY.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12935131
> 
> 
> And at that point do you really think you will get more Cavalier games in HD? I don't.



It sounds more like an FSN deal than anything, as far as HD upgrades. This isn't like CBS and the AFC, where the Browns haven't gotten much HD until they played better...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12935171
> 
> 
> It sounds more like an FSN deal than anything, as far as HD upgrades. This isn't like CBS and the AFC, where the Browns haven't gotten much HD until they played better...



I think you missed my point, my good friend. The point is that in the big city they don't really deal that much with Fox Sports. Local channels cover them and they provide the HD.


The Browns don't play every other day so they are restricted to Network wishes. Still you may be right. FSN may show more HD games but I'll bet it won't compare to that schedule I gave in my previous post.


----------



## rlb

Several months ago, I posted that my HR20 would not receive OTA 3-1 (digital channel 2). A couple others confirmed that they had the same issue. I advised D* technical of the problem. Luckily, I did have D*'s MPEG4 local for channel 3; but still like the option of OTA in case we're having rain fade issues.


Received updated firmware for the HR20 Thursday night. Checked today and I can now get 3-1.


----------



## hookbill

When I lived in N. Kentucky, Cincinnati area and I had D* rain fade was rarely an issue and I'll bet we got a heck of a lot more rain then what we get here. At least it seemed that way to me.


Point is I never can recall in my 7 years with D* ever having a recording that had a rain fade issue. I saw it live from time to time but that was only briefly, like when a spring storm was really getting ready or was hitting hard.


IMHO rain fade is a highly over rated problem that cable companies like to use. If anyone is thinking about a dish vs cable and that's an issue, don't let it be.


YMMV


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12937099
> 
> 
> When I lived in N. Kentucky, Cincinnati area and I had D* rain fade was rarely an issue and I'll bet we got a heck of a lot more rain then what we get here. At least it seemed that way to me.
> 
> 
> Point is I never can recall in my 7 years with D* ever having a recording that had a rain fade issue. I saw it live from time to time but that was only briefly, like when a spring storm was really getting ready or was hitting hard.
> 
> 
> IMHO rain fade is a highly over rated problem that cable companies like to use. If anyone is thinking about a dish vs cable and that's an issue, don't let it be.
> 
> 
> YMMV



I causes me problems maybe 3-4 times per year for maybe an average of 15 minutes each time. However, I've read that the MPEG4 channels (almost all of the HD channels-definitely the HD locals) are a little more prone to the problems than the older MPEG2 channels.


However, like hookbill, I don't consider it a significant issue in the decision of cable vs satellite.


In fact, I'm happier each month with D*. The firmware upgrades to the HR20 have been significant. We now have video on demand (via internet) and external scheduling via your wireless phone if you are away from home. They just implemented a choice for 30 second skip (it's always had just the 30 second slip option). Plus, I have a 750 gig e-sata drive attached that gives lots of "cheap" memory. It's networked with my PC and I can download pictures, music, etc. The HR20 started out as weak; but has turned into an excellent DVR. Not to mention, the new MPEG4 HD stations (somewhere between 80-100) look as good as my OTA stations.


A year ago, I was analyzing my options for leaving D*. I'm now happy that I stayed.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12935195
> 
> 
> I think you missed my point, my good friend. The point is that in the big city they don't really deal that much with Fox Sports. Local channels cover them and they provide the HD.



Yeah, I guess I was derailed by this line, after you talked about LeBron and his presumed exit from the Cavaliers down the road...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And at that point do you really think you will get more Cavalier games in HD? I don't.



The problem is indeed not how the team fares with or without LeBron, or how good the Lakers are, it's that the Cavaliers have an exclusive FSN contract - and the five games or so that show up OTA (WUAB/43) aren't in HD, and probably won't be.


I'm wondering if the KCAL over-air contract was a driving force in pushing FSN to do all its games in HD.


My prediction, though, is that FSN will do all games in HD nationwide in the next 2-3 years or so, after they complete that upgrade and HD production trucks become more common.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/12937192
> 
> 
> A year ago, I was analyzing my options for leaving D*. I'm now happy that I stayed.



As much as I love TiVo S3 if I could have got D* I would have. I loved D* and at that time I had to get it from Pegasus. I think the pq of just a 480i show is much better on D* then any digital show on cable, excluding HD of course.


One thing I will say though is since I got the S3 the pq of the analog channels is amazingly better. As a matter of fact I think it probably is as good as the digital channels, maybe better.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12938979
> 
> 
> As much as I love TiVo S3 if I could have got D* I would have. I loved D* and at that time I had to get it from Pegasus. I think the pq of just a 480i show is much better on D* then any digital show on cable, excluding HD of course.
> 
> 
> One thing I will say though is since I got the S3 the pq of the analog channels is amazingly better. As a matter of fact I think it probably is as good as the digital channels, maybe better.



I recently found my answer for the 480i channels (we watch quite a bit of Fox News and my wife watches SD programs on HGTV and Food Channel that aren't yet on their HD channel). I bought an Integra 9.8 AVP for processing HDMI audio containing the new lossless codecs found on Blu Ray and HD DVD. It has a Reon video processing chip which improves the D* SD channels to almost DVD quality.


----------



## nickdawg

Thanks WEWS for not showing the ABC movie _Pretty Woman_ in HD tonight. Thanks for putting this "Evening of Stars" garbage on instead. Think I'll be watching WEWS tonight? All signs point to *NO*!


This is why I hate WEWS. No other station interrupts network programming as much as they do. Now if it was a reality show or a re-run, _maybe_ I'd understand. But preempt a movie of the week in HD is unforgivable. At least WOIO's paid programming was in place of repeats.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12940711
> 
> 
> Thanks WEWS for not showing the ABC movie _Pretty Woman_ in HD tonight. Thanks for putting this "Evening of Stars" garbage on instead. Think I'll be watching WEWS tonight? All signs point to *NO*!
> 
> 
> This is why I hate WEWS. No other station interrupts network programming as much as they do. Now if it was a reality show or a re-run, _maybe_ I'd understand. But preempt a movie of the week in HD is unforgivable. At least WOIO's paid programming was in place of repeats.



See, this is something I don't understand. If you are a network affiliate arn't you suppose to show network shows? Isn't advertising dollars attatched?


I kind of wondered about the same thing with WKYC. Not that I would complain about it because I would much rather watch baseball then somebody skating around on ice or beach volleyball but how do these network stations get around this?


Maybe they are only required to show so many hours of network programming. I know that in some areas if they feel a show is too controversial for the area they may not show it.


This is a good question for TV Chief. He probably would have the answer.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12941456
> 
> 
> I kind of wondered about the same thing with WKYC. Not that I would complain about it because I would much rather watch baseball then somebody skating around on ice or beach volleyball but how do these network stations get around this?



I hope to see more Indians on NBC this season. With a lack of new programming and an abundance of reality crap, I don't think there will be any objections.


The only time I was angry at WKYC was when they preempted or joined-in-progress Action Sports in the summer. They would always preempt either Saturday or Sunday so I'd miss part of it. Then I was annoyed to see some mountain biking/climbing crap shown in entirety the next week. It was called something like "World of Adventure Sports?".


It's hard to believe brcause the Action Sports tour was in Cleveland and they even did a big report about it.



> Quote:
> Maybe they are only required to show so many hours of network programming. I know that in some areas if they feel a show is too controversial for the area they may not show it.



There are rules by network that say how many hours of network programming can be preempted. Some take advantage of it more than others. WJW rarely preempts programming while WEWS does it all the time. I think they also get a "pass" if the show is a rerun. WEWS has interrupted ABC reruns and remember WOIO's Paid Programming in primetime







.


Controversial programming is also an issue. WEWS made the news a few years back when they refused to show an ABC movie because of language. It was a war movie and several other stations didn't show it out of fear of fines. Also, the episodes of _Nightline_ when they were reading all the names of soldiers killed in Iraq were preempted by stations owned by a conservative owner.


Where is the TVChef?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12941854
> 
> 
> I
> 
> There are rules by network that say how many hours of network programming can be preempted. Some take advantage of it more than others. WJW rarely preempts programming while WEWS does it all the time. I think they also get a "pass" if the show is a rerun. WEWS has interrupted ABC reruns and remember WOIO's Paid Programming in primetime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Since WJW was a FOX owned station of course you would see less preempts. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. I have a feeling however that you won't see a great deal of change. I think FOX made sure these new owners are going to play ball their way.


Rupert Murdock may be an *ss but he isn't stupid.


----------



## dand243

i live in the akron area and just recently purchased a hdtv and then added a hd dvr from twc. well the problem is that my abc fox and cw dont come in but the hd abc and the hd fox do come in but abchd sometimes go in and out. its crazy cause all the other channels come in but not the basic ones. anyone have any ideas.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/12948202
> 
> 
> i live in the akron area and just recently purchased a hdtv and then added a hd dvr from twc. well the problem is that my abc fox and cw dont come in but the hd abc and the hd fox do come in but abchd sometimes go in and out. its crazy cause all the other channels come in but not the basic ones. anyone have any ideas.



No offense dand243 but I don't think I've ever read a post more confusing. But let's start with some basics.


First, TW does not offer the CW in HD. So that's the end of that one. Next you say and I quote you from above "*well the problem is that my abc fox and cw dont come in but the hd abc and the hd fox do come in but abchd sometimes go in and out.*" This statement makes no sense. First you say FOX and ABC don't come in, then you say they do come in sometimes but go in and out?


Here's what I think you mean: Sometimes FOX and ABC are in HD and other times they are not. That's true about all network shows. Not every network show is broadcast in HD.


Now if this isn't what you meant then the other answer is that you have a cable company DVR and they are basically a pos. See my signature below.


Now if I didn't pick up on what you put down, and believe me what you put down was difficult to understand, then try it again and take a look at what you wrote before hitting the "submit reply" button.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/12948202
> 
> 
> i live in the akron area and just recently purchased a hdtv and then added a hd dvr from twc. well the problem is that my abc fox and cw dont come in but the hd abc and the hd fox do come in but abchd sometimes go in and out. its crazy cause all the other channels come in but not the basic ones. anyone have any ideas.



As much as I love my 8300HD w/Passport. I second what Hook said. If you recently got a HD DVR (8300HDC), it is a POS. That may explain why your HD channels go out. The 8300HDC has had MANY problems for users.


However, if you are talking about HD "going out" because everything is not HD/widescreen, nothing can be done about that. Not all network programming is HD and Time Warner has a *VERY* pathetic HD line up.


The black or grey area you see to the left and right of your screen are NORMAL. It's unused space because the 4:3 picture is displayed on a 16:9 screen.


----------



## dand243

sorry about the confusion here is what i was trying to say. my regular cw, fox, and abc dont come in at all. all i get is a black screen. if i switch over to the hd channel of fox and abc it comes in but not watchable. i basically want to know why the standard fox abc and cw dont come in at all? and i have the 8240hdc


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/12935095
> 
> 
> Yeah, I remember when Dan Gilbert bought the team there was some talk of the Cavs going all HD, but that never happened. Fox Sports Net is supposed to be near completion on a new network center in Houston that can handle all the HD feeds to/from all the FSN regions. We shall see.



If I'm not mistaken FSN Ohio/FSN Ohio HD still come out of the Rainbow Media "Rainbow Network Communications" Center in New York. This was even after the Cablevision sale they were still doing master control in New York. Now I haven't done an FSN Ohio game in a long time, so I may not be completely accurate, but New York only had one HD path, so they were limited even more than FSN's Houston master control center. http://www.rainbow-media.com/tech/index.html 


Regardless there needs to be a push for more HD Cavs, they owe it to fans, viewers, advertisers and the town. Much like the Indians (and Dolan taking the initiative), the only person Fox will listen to is Dan Gilbert. In any sports franchise from Cuban's Mavericks, to Steinbrenner's YES Networ, STO and NESN the push for all-HD has all come from the owner themselves.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Make sure that your tv is configured in it's menue to receive cable and not an over-the-air signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/12950313
> 
> 
> sorry about the confusion here is what i was trying to say. my regular cw, fox, and abc dont come in at all. all i get is a black screen. if i switch over to the hd channel of fox and abc it comes in but not watchable. i basically want to know why the standard fox abc and cw dont come in at all? and i have the 8240hdc



I don't get it. Didn't they check this befoe they left after install, or did you just pick up the box yourself?


If you can't figure it out call TW and they will do a truck roll and fix it for you. Sounds to me like you got some signal problems, perhaps you need an amp. They will provide that free of charge. Have them check all your connections on all sets and splitters to make sure your receiving the proper signal.


It could also be that you don't have your DVR configured correctly. I don't remember how to do that anymore, I haven't used the cable company DVR in over a year now.


----------



## Inundated

8240HDC? Isn't that a new cable box that uses cable cards in its "guts"? That might well be the entire problem right there.


I'm guessing he'll have to call TWC on this, and make sure those cards are provisioned correctly inside the box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/12952111
> 
> 
> 8240HDC? Isn't that a new cable box that uses cable cards in its "guts"? That might well be the entire problem right there.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing he'll have to call TWC on this, and make sure those cards are provisioned correctly inside the box.



8240HDC is a new, OCAP box, probably running Navigator. If you do have a service person come out, see if you can get a non-"C" box. The new OCAP boxes are trouble.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12952348
> 
> 
> 8240HDC is a new, OCAP box, probably running Navigator. If you do have a service person come out, see if you can get a non-"C" box. The new OCAP boxes are trouble.



Nickdawg, that's not going to happen. You can't "request" a no cable card box since the law says that all new boxes have to have cable cards.


Now when the law first went into affect they still continued to distribute those boxes, but only until inventory ran out. Now as those boxes are returned the new boxes go out. The purpose of this law is to make a fair playing field for other manufacturers of DVR's. Like TiVo.


As Inundated pointed out the type of problem that dand243 is having could simply be that his cable cards arn't "married" properly. That is if he is even using two cable cards. That model he has may only need one card which is the "M" card. It does the work of two S cards. But not on the TiVo S3. Only on the TiVo HD. And of course the Navigator box.


I suppose we can speculate this forever but the bottom line is he needs a truck roll and no, he will not be able to get the old type of SA 8300 boxes.


I suggest of course that he look into getting the TiVo HD. It's interface will blow away any SA box and they are much more reliable then the current SA box.


----------



## HD MM

I must commend WOIO and CBS for their part in covering the Buick Invitational Golf Tournament over the weekend. I got the chance to watch a bit on Sunday and was blown away by the picture quality. CBS has always done a great job with golf and yesterday was no exception. (Watching HD through D*)


Oh yeah, congrats to Tiger Woods in tying Arnold Palmer with his 62nd professional tournament win!


----------



## hookbill

I'm getting a good deal of sound drop offs tonight on Fox8 news via TW. OTA, D* people.....anybody watching can you report?


----------



## ZManCartFan

Don't know how much help this is, Hook, but I was watching the SD feed through Armstrong for most of the 6-7 hour. No dropouts for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12960940
> 
> 
> Don't know how much help this is, Hook, but I was watching the SD feed through Armstrong for most of the 6-7 hour. No dropouts for me.



Thanks, I was watching the HD feed. I've noticed since it went off the sound has been fine.


----------



## dand243

thanks for all the advice everybody. i went ahead and made the call, but no surprise they cant come out untill next week. so in the meantime i tried some things and disconnected all my connections and reconnected them and some how all my channels came in perfectly but that only lasted for one day, so i dont know what that means. and also i was wondering since the cable company boxes arent that good where could i get a better one, and how would that work with my cable already. i dont understand how that works. thanks for all the help...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/12955461
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, that's not going to happen. You can't "request" a no cable card box since the law says that all new boxes have to have cable cards.
> 
> 
> Now when the law first went into affect they still continued to distribute those boxes, but only until inventory ran out. Now as those boxes are returned the new boxes go out. The purpose of this law is to make a fair playing field for other manufacturers of DVR's. Like TiVo.



This topic came up over on the Navigator forum as well. Technically the cableco can still issue non-OCAP boxes, as long as they were originally manufactured and issued before 7/1/07. They are not allowed to issue any new non-OCAP boxes.


I bring this up because I was lucky enough to get a non-_C_ box after 7/1/07. It really depends on what is in stock at your local TW. I also got a used, dud 8000HD back in *AUGUST*.


I really wish you luck with your cable, especially with OCAP. OCAP has to be the worst government ruling to hit cable TV ever. Thanks FCC, now we're stuck with defective boxes. The HDC line have had problems across the board on all software applications(SARA, Navigator). Honestly, I think they should have left the cable boxes alone. it's absurd to require cable companies to use M-cards in their boxes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/12964365
> 
> 
> I really wish you luck with your cable, especially with OCAP. OCAP has to be the worst government ruling to hit cable TV ever. Thanks FCC, now we're stuck with defective boxes. The HDC line have had problems across the board on all software applications(SARA, Navigator). Honestly, I think they should have left the cable boxes alone. it's absurd to require cable companies to use M-cards in their boxes.



nickdawg, you know I have to take issue with this. First, as you yourself have acknowledge SARA was terrible software. And as everyone on this board is aware my SA8300 was notoriously unreliable, I had at least 3 partial recordings each week. I went through 3 different boxes, all with the same results. I had techs come out and scratch their heads. I don't think most of them believed me.


But it wasn't just me. Many others in the area had the same experience and as usual I will acknowledge for whatever reason some did not have this experience. Inundated never had a problem like this though he admits as well that the SA 8300 is a piece of crap compared to a TiVo. He also never got an SA 8300, he stayed with the SA 8000. Oh, I had one of those as well but since they decided not to activate their DVI because of the SA 8300 I went with the latter. I probably should have stayed with the SA 8000.


I know you think passport was fine and I don't know how you got your data but in our area we could not even program the SA 8300 to record "first run, no repeats." Now it was capable of that but the company that provides the data in our area did not provide that info.


Now you want to blame the FCC? I think you should either look at Ciscoe or TW. They knew this was coming up for a couple of years and this problem with their OCAP boxes is nobodys fault but theirs. If they hired some decent engineers to design a good DVR maybe they wouldn't be having these problems.


One other question, nickdawg. Just how long do you think they are going to let you keep that current DVR before they do a switch out?


I can read your mind, "when they pry it from my cold, dead hands."










I just can't see TW having 3 different platforms out there and you know as well as I do that it ain't passport that's going to be kept in the end.


The good news however is that, like SDV is probably a long way off for our area.


Other companies should be able to present DVR's to compete with the cable company. That's only fair. Also there is the Media Center computers as well. They need cable cards too.


So if you want to be angry with someone point your anger at TW or Ciscoe systems. They are the one's who implemented that pos.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/12963740
> 
> 
> thanks for all the advice everybody. i went ahead and made the call, but no surprise they cant come out untill next week. so in the meantime i tried some things and disconnected all my connections and reconnected them and some how all my channels came in perfectly but that only lasted for one day, so i dont know what that means. and also i was wondering since the cable company boxes arent that good where could i get a better one, and how would that work with my cable already. i dont understand how that works. thanks for all the help...



Like hook said, you probably have a low signal level coming into the house. These 40 degree thawing conditions can cause problems with condensation in the "taps" at the pole. At least that's the way the Wide Open West cable tech explained it to me when he came out last year to look at my setup. It was spring time, very wet outside, everything thawing out. At the time I was getting some of the HD/digital channels but not all of them, and it would change day to day depending on the weather.


----------



## ZManCartFan

It's been a while since I've seen this discussed on here. Does anyone know of a good (*cough* cheap *cough*) ISF tech in the Cleveland area? I'm sure I can search around for a list or two, but referrals make the world go 'round.


On a related note, anybody have any experience with Geek Squad or Firedog doing calibration on a plasma set? Do these guys get any special training or equipment, or do they just show up and turn down the brightness / contrast?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12972150
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I've seen this discussed on here. Does anyone know of a good (*cough* cheap *cough*) ISF tech in the Cleveland area? I'm sure I can search around for a list or two, but referrals make the world go 'round.
> 
> 
> On a related note, anybody have any experience with Geek Squad or Firedog doing calibration on a plasma set? Do these guys get any special training or equipment, or do they just show up and turn down the brightness / contrast?




I personally wouldn't let Geek Squad or Firedog touch my display.


Following guy was great on my SXRD around 2 years ago. He isn't necessarily cheap, as I remember around $400; but pretty much standard for the good ISF guys. He has been pretty active on AVS and travels around the country. He's based near Dayton; but travels frequently to the Cleveland area.

http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/12972150
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I've seen this discussed on here. Does anyone know of a good (*cough* cheap *cough*) ISF tech in the Cleveland area? I'm sure I can search around for a list or two, but referrals make the world go 'round.
> 
> 
> On a related note, anybody have any experience with Geek Squad or Firedog doing calibration on a plasma set? Do these guys get any special training or equipment, or do they just show up and turn down the brightness / contrast?


 www.ClevelandPlasma.com 


Chris is the owner, great guy, does custom installs, more than just plasmas. I hired him to wall mount the NEC plasma I purchased from him and he wound up wall mounting my second plasma, a Panny (not purchased from him) cuz he's just a nice guy.


I'm not certain he does calibration (though I'd bet he does), but I can assure you he would know the better ISF people in NEO.


----------



## nosey313

Seriously, what's the problem here? Everyday I read about another cable system somewhere getting more HD channels. Every time I go to my parents house in Lakewood I get irked that have more channels than I do, albeit only a few more. I've been looking into getting D*, but I'm slowly coming to grips with the fact that the tall trees behind my house are causing line of sight issues. I'm just pissed off at TWC. Raising my rates an I don't get anything added for it. And to top it all off, I can't even look at ATT because we've got lame Windstream.


The bottom line is that I'd ditch TWC in a HEARTBEAT if I could. Their service is horribly overpriced, their product is terrible, and they couldn't care less about my issues. It's too bad the cable co's were allowed a legal monoply in the first place. I guess I'll have to wait for a wireless world to have the benefit of choice.


Either that or cut down my trees.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/12984216
> 
> 
> Seriously, what's the problem here? Everyday I read about another cable system somewhere getting more HD channels. Every time I go to my parents house in Lakewood I get irked that have more channels than I do, albeit only a few more. I've been looking into getting D*, but I'm slowly coming to grips with the fact that the tall trees behind my house are causing line of sight issues. I'm just pissed off at TWC. Raising my rates an I don't get anything added for it. And to top it all off, I can't even look at ATT because we've got lame Windstream.
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that I'd ditch TWC in a HEARTBEAT if I could. Their service is horribly overpriced, their product is terrible, and they couldn't care less about my issues. It's too bad the cable co's were allowed a legal monoply in the first place. I guess I'll have to wait for a wireless world to have the benefit of choice.
> 
> 
> Either that or cut down my trees.



To understand the whole nature of the TW HD issue would require you to go back to page 1 and read everything written on this thread.


But being as that is something most of us has not done you shouldn't be expected to either. So let me sum it up.


First, Adelphia took over a bunch of small cable companies and never really made them 1 large cable company. That's why there are different line ups everywhere. That is also why you get better service in some areas then you do in others.


Time Warner and Comcast made the deal to purchase Adelphia. Time Warner also had to now deal with former Comcast customers, who had a different line up and used different equipment as well.


The answer to more HD is simple. SDV, or Switched Digital Video. TW is doing it all across the country and in theory should make it every bit as competitive as any satellites service.


However here in N.E. Ohio we have the issues stated above. You've got a bunch of small companies who even though they were once Adelphia, had their own way of doing things and their own attitudes. Some were very good. Others were not so good. Then you have all these different cable line ups. There should be one line up for all of TW NEO. That was suppose to be accomplished by last June, 2007.


And last there is the equipment. As it stands now there is a Moto DVR for the comcast people, the SA 8300 for Adelphia and TW people. The SA 8300 for Adelphia and old TW people run on two different softwares. SARA and Passport. Then there is the FCC saying that all new DVR's have to have cable cards, and from what we know about those the agreement seems that they are designed piece of garbage.


Now because of all the reasons stated above, TW cannot offer much more HD then they already have. Oh, they can probably add a couple of channels but they really need to fix many of these issues before SDV can be implemented.


Now in other areas of the country like in Los Angeles and such where these same type of acquisitions have occurred TW has indeed made progress. But you see, this is Cleveland. And they have bigger fish to fry.


So if you're really unhappy, by all means switch. I would recommend D*. But keep in mind that even though D* offers all those HD channels they really don't have all that much HD programming on them. Is it better then TW? Oh, hell yes.


Unfortunately I am stuck with TW. I don't see U-Verse coming out here as this is a Windstream area, although you would think that law they passed should make it possible. But even if they did I wouldn't get U-Verse until they can figure out how to send more then one HD channel at a time.


Oh, I have the tree problem too that's why I'm stuck with TW. But at least I have the TiVo S3.


So that's your run down. Plain and simple. So pick one, and be happy.

Or move to another city.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/12984216
> 
> 
> Seriously, what's the problem here? Everyday I read about another cable system somewhere getting more HD channels. Every time I go to my parents house in Lakewood I get irked that have more channels than I do, albeit only a few more. I've been looking into getting D*, but I'm slowly coming to grips with the fact that the tall trees behind my house are causing line of sight issues. I'm just pissed off at TWC. Raising my rates an I don't get anything added for it. And to top it all off, I can't even look at ATT because we've got lame Windstream.
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that I'd ditch TWC in a HEARTBEAT if I could. Their service is horribly overpriced, their product is terrible, and they couldn't care less about my issues. It's too bad the cable co's were allowed a legal monoply in the first place. I guess I'll have to wait for a wireless world to have the benefit of choice.
> 
> 
> Either that or cut down my trees.



I don't think much will happen until more people start speaking out with their wallet. I finally said enough was enough and went to lifeline basic, because $40-$50 a month for channels of which over 95% of them I don't watch was not worth it anymore. I'd rather rent the shows on DVD a few months later that I am missing or download them off the internet. This is not to mention the horrible service I've gotten from Time Warner since they took over too. I've had at least 5 trips from the cable guy trying to figure out how to install a cable card and try to figure out why my internet connection would go in and out.


I just ordered a VuDu that has TV shows and movies to rent/purchase and I already have ReplayTV which allows me to download shows from cable channels I don't get off the internet for free. I haven't missed those channels I gave up since I canceled them 5 months ago and the few hundred dollars I saved is well worth it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/12984922
> 
> 
> I don't think much will happen until more people start speaking out with their wallet.




You would think that would be a driving factor, but as I pointed out in my reply this is NE Ohio and TW has more important things to do. They will take care of it but don't hold your breath.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/12984216
> 
> 
> Seriously, what's the problem here? Everyday I read about another cable system somewhere getting more HD channels. Every time I go to my parents house in Lakewood I get irked that have more channels than I do, albeit only a few more. I've been looking into getting D*, but I'm slowly coming to grips with the fact that the tall trees behind my house are causing line of sight issues. I'm just pissed off at TWC. Raising my rates an I don't get anything added for it. And to top it all off, I can't even look at ATT because we've got lame Windstream.
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that I'd ditch TWC in a HEARTBEAT if I could. Their service is horribly overpriced, their product is terrible, and they couldn't care less about my issues. It's too bad the cable co's were allowed a legal monoply in the first place. I guess I'll have to wait for a wireless world to have the benefit of choice.
> 
> 
> Either that or cut down my trees.



I live near Lakewood Park and Over-The-Air signal has always been bad! At least below channel 25. Between the Gold Coast high rises and the tall Detroit Ave. building causing ghosts and the ridges & hills. We got cable decades ago just to watch the locals.


----------



## dleising

I'm with you nosey. It's getting ridiculous now. I know cable companies are usually hated in general but TW is rock bottom.

The Cleveland-Akron-Canton market is in the 17th largest market in the country!

TW can do better, much better...


----------



## Lighting Guy

I'm on old adelphia east via TW QAM. I've been noticing quite a bit of macroblocking on WKYC the last few days. (First noticed with the state of the union and still last night through the Law and Orders.) Anybody else? I wanna see if its a TW thing or a tuner thing.


----------



## Michael P 2341

WKYC reception issues (weather it be from cable or OTA) are due to their low frequency (rf ch 2). Once WDLI-TV signs off rf ch 17 WKYC-DT will be rid of the curse of low band VHF.


----------



## Valnar

FOX8 on my Wide Open West in North Royalton has been gone for a couple days. Anyone know what's going on?


Robert


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/12984216
> 
> 
> Seriously, what's the problem here? Everyday I read about another cable system somewhere getting more HD channels. Every time I go to my parents house in Lakewood I get irked that have more channels than I do, albeit only a few more. I've been looking into getting D*, but I'm slowly coming to grips with the fact that the tall trees behind my house are causing line of sight issues. I'm just pissed off at TWC. Raising my rates an I don't get anything added for it. And to top it all off, I can't even look at ATT because we've got lame Windstream.
> 
> 
> The bottom line is that I'd ditch TWC in a HEARTBEAT if I could. Their service is horribly overpriced, their product is terrible, and they couldn't care less about my issues. It's too bad the cable co's were allowed a legal monoply in the first place. I guess I'll have to wait for a wireless world to have the benefit of choice.
> 
> 
> Either that or cut down my trees.



One of the reasons cable in Lakewood has a better HD line-up may be due to the fact that they have COX instead of TW.


BTW: You still have "Lakewood" as your location. Did you just move out of your parents house? If you have Windstream you are nowhere near Lakewood. Let me guess, North Ridgeville?


----------



## nosey313

Hookbill, thanks for the rundown. It makes sense now. Michael, thanks for the heads up on my location. I guess I never realized to change it. I actually live in Sagamore Hills with my wife. Thanks for thinking I was younger though!







I do still see my parents often however, and I do watch their Cox and am jealous of the Foodnetwork HD. I have seen the posts on SDV on this forum. Would LOVE to have that tech here, but alas we live too far out in the "sticks" fir it to be a reality soon.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/12993077
> 
> 
> FOX8 on my Wide Open West in North Royalton has been gone for a couple days. Anyone know what's going on?
> 
> 
> Robert



Are you talking about QAM? Looks like they're moving channels around again. Try rescanning. WJW is now at 88-202, and WOIO is now at 82-201, both of which were previously occupied by analog premium channels.


See this link for more info:
http://www1.wowway.com/cable/cable.a...RCView=Nothing


----------



## Valnar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/12995931
> 
> 
> Are you talking about QAM? Looks like they're moving channels around again. Try rescanning. WJW is now at 88-202, and WOIO is now at 82-201, both of which were previously occupied by analog premium channels.
> 
> 
> See this link for more info:
> http://www1.wowway.com/cable/cable.a...RCView=Nothing



Ah. Thanks!


Robert


----------



## stuart628

looks like 4 new HD channels will be added here soon (march 4th)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/North..._notices2.html 


A&EHD, History HD, Food HD, and HGTVHD, seems like with these changes they are very close to maybe getting alll cable systems on the same path, looks that way, lets hope we start to see some changes huh?


----------



## paule123

Here's a heartwarming story for you TWC lovers out there ...









http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=7803899 


Tornado victim billed $2,000 for damaged cable equipment


Associated Press - January 31, 2008 3:25 PM ET


WHEATLAND, Wis. (AP) - Ann Beam was upset when a tornado demolished her Wheatland home. But when she got her cable bill a few weeks later, she was floored.


The Time Warner Cable bill was $2,000 including charges for five cable boxes and five remote controls destroyed by the January 7th twister.


Beam says she called the cable company but was told to give the bill to her insurance company. She says the equipment was nine years and her insurance company would only pay a depreciated amount that wouldn't cover the bill.


Time Warner Cable spokeswoman Celeste Flynn says many customers got charged for unreturned equipment because they canceled or transferred their service without mentioning the tornado. She says that if they call the company the charges will be taken off their accounts.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13001767
> 
> 
> looks like 4 new HD channels will be added here soon (march 4th)
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/North..._notices2.html
> 
> 
> A&EHD, History HD, Food HD, and HGTVHD, seems like with these changes they are very close to maybe getting alll cable systems on the same path, looks that way, lets hope we start to see some changes huh?



Good news, and new (better) channels will be added to the expanded basic lineup with the removal of some (crappy) old channels to the digital basic.


TW is getting warmer, but still not hot in my opinion...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13001767
> 
> 
> looks like 4 new HD channels will be added here soon (march 4th)
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/North..._notices2.html
> 
> 
> A&EHD, History HD, Food HD, and HGTVHD, seems like with these changes they are very close to maybe getting alll cable systems on the same path, looks that way, lets hope we start to see some changes huh?




OK....I'm kind of tired and maybe I'm not quite getting it but here's what's important to me:


The following changes will also take place at that time in the former Adelphia service areas:

The following channels will be added to Digital Basic -CNN International, Inspiration Network, Reelz Channel, and ShopNBC; added to the new Digital Choice Tier - Boomerang, Ovation, and PBS Sprout; added to the Spanish Language Tier - Boomerang en Espanol, Canal Sur, Galavision, La Familia, Mun2, and MTV en Espanol; added as new foreign language premium services - DW TV, and Zee TV; added to FREE HD - A&E HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD and History HD; move from Digital Basic to Expanded Basic - Hallmark, Turner Classic Movies, TV One, MTV2 and VH-1 Classic; added to premium channel multiplexes - @MAX, 5StarMAX, OuterMAX, WMAX, Showtime Family, Showtime Next, and Showtime Women; move from Digital Plus to Digital Basic - BET on Jazz, Biography, CNBC World, and History Channel International; move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Tier - Country Music Television, and Village TV; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Choice Tier - DIY, Family Land, and Nick Too; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Sports Tier - Fox Sports en Espanol; move to position 76 on Expanded Basic - *SportsTime Ohio; will be dropped from the line-up* - AZN, Canal 52 MX, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, VH-1 Country, VH-1 Soul, and the West Coast feeds of Showtime, TMC, FLIX, and Encore Themes.


As we have discussed History HD doesn't have that much HD, how can it? (Remember that nice little discussion I had with that TW Exec?) A&E IMHO may be a bit of a plus. I know you Food channel people are happy.


I want FX, USA, and SCI FI. I don't see any of those.










Also, what is up with the bolded part. SportsTime Ohio will be dropped? I assume that means that they will only keep the analog channel, though why they would do that is a mystery to me. You save bandwith by removing analog. And no, I don't have any sympathy for those people who only get basic analog cable.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13004706
> 
> 
> OK....I'm kind of tired and maybe I'm not quite getting it but here's what's important to me:
> 
> 
> The following changes will also take place at that time in the former Adelphia service areas:
> 
> The following channels will be added to Digital Basic –CNN International, Inspiration Network, Reelz Channel, and ShopNBC; added to the new Digital Choice Tier – Boomerang, Ovation, and PBS Sprout; added to the Spanish Language Tier – Boomerang en Espanol, Canal Sur, Galavision, La Familia, Mun2, and MTV en Espanol; added as new foreign language premium services – DW TV, and Zee TV; added to FREE HD – A&E HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD and History HD; move from Digital Basic to Expanded Basic – Hallmark, Turner Classic Movies, TV One, MTV2 and VH-1 Classic; added to premium channel multiplexes – @MAX, 5StarMAX, OuterMAX, WMAX, Showtime Family, Showtime Next, and Showtime Women; move from Digital Plus to Digital Basic – BET on Jazz, Biography, CNBC World, and History Channel International; move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Tier – Country Music Television, and Village TV; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Choice Tier – DIY, Family Land, and Nick Too; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Sports Tier – Fox Sports en Espanol; move to position 76 on Expanded Basic – *SportsTime Ohio; will be dropped from the line-up* – AZN, Canal 52 MX, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, VH-1 Country, VH-1 Soul, and the West Coast feeds of Showtime, TMC, FLIX, and Encore Themes.
> 
> 
> As we have discussed History HD doesn't have that much HD, how can it? (Remember that nice little discussion I had with that TW Exec?) A&E IMHO may be a bit of a plus. I know you Food channel people are happy.
> 
> 
> I want FX, USA, and SCI FI. I don't see any of those.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what is up with the bolded part. SportsTime Ohio will be dropped? I assume that means that they will only keep the analog channel, though why they would do that is a mystery to me. You save bandwith by removing analog. And no, I don't have any sympathy for those people who only get basic analog cable.



Hook I don't think that is what is going on. If you look between the semi-colons, "will be dropped from the line-up – AZN, Canal 52 MX, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, VH-1 Country, VH-1 Soul, and the West Coast feeds of Showtime, TMC, FLIX, and Encore Themes" those will be the channels that will be removed. I believe they are saying that STO will be moved to channel 76 (it already is in the original TW zones). STO will move to 76 for the former Comcast and Adelphia folks where it may not be.


I may be wrong though...


----------



## stuart628

I think you have it right, thats why I said I believe we are seeing the late stages of all one time warner network here in ohio, STO is on 76 here in akron, and it should be there as well


Get some sleep hook and read it again


----------



## hookbill

OK, it makes sense to me now. A little sleep, two cups of coffee and a different day.


Still, I think they way they presented it was poor. It could have been spelled out simpler then having the dashes, semi colons, etc.


Just my opinion again.


Oh, I wanted to comment on this post by paule123:

*Here's a heartwarming story for you TWC lovers out there ...

http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=7803899 


Tornado victim billed $2,000 for damaged cable equipment


Associated Press - January 31, 2008 3:25 PM ET


WHEATLAND, Wis. (AP) - Ann Beam was upset when a tornado demolished her Wheatland home. But when she got her cable bill a few weeks later, she was floored.


The Time Warner Cable bill was $2,000 including charges for five cable boxes and five remote controls destroyed by the January 7th twister.


Beam says she called the cable company but was told to give the bill to her insurance company. She says the equipment was nine years and her insurance company would only pay a depreciated amount that wouldn't cover the bill.


Time Warner Cable spokeswoman Celeste Flynn says many customers got charged for unreturned equipment because they canceled or transferred their service without mentioning the tornado. She says that if they call the company the charges will be taken off their accounts*


Yeah, it sure is a stupid thing to do but you know we see this kind of stuff happen all the time.


I want to state for the record that I am not a fan of any cable company. I've never met a cable company I've liked. That includes TW. And I know how you Comcast converted people feel. My opinion of TW has changed a bit but only for two reasons. The first is I really like the "we will call you" thing they offer when you do need to talk to customer service instead of being on eternal hold. Now that was a TW initiated thing. So thumbs up on that. Also it seems to me that overall the training for their CSR's has gone up a bit, specially concerning cable cards and TiVo.


But the main thing that I like is I have a personal source at head end when I have problems that I can go to and when I call her be it billing issues or technical issues, she makes things happen. Without her I would probably just as pissed off about TW as I was about Adelphia. And I truly believe that Adelphia was the worst cable company I ever came across.


----------



## stuart628

wait, it would be 5 HD channels, Starz HD is coming too!! maybe SDV is here and we dont know it?


----------



## Btime1

I have Time Warner Cleveland suburbs, and it looks like they moved the HD Fox 8 QAM channel - it was 8-1, but I get no signal now.


Anyone know where they moved it to?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Btime1* /forum/post/13009192
> 
> 
> I have Time Warner Cleveland suburbs, and it looks like they moved the HD Fox 8 QAM channel - it was 8-1, but I get no signal now.
> 
> 
> Anyone know where they moved it to?



Boy, you gotta wonder what they're smoking over at TWC. "Hey Joe, let's move Fox 8 the day before the Super Bowl just to confuse our customers and get loads of pissed off people calling up on Sunday afternoon!" They probably figure nobody uses that "QAM thing"


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Btime1* /forum/post/13009192
> 
> 
> I have Time Warner Cleveland suburbs, and it looks like they moved the HD Fox 8 QAM channel - it was 8-1, but I get no signal now.
> 
> 
> Anyone know where they moved it to?



Same problem here. I called them and they said I should rescan my QAM channels. I did that and it still isn't a 8-1. I'm going to call back in a few minutes and see whats going on.


----------



## hershsa

Just called Time Warner. I used the call back feature. The wait time is over 2 hours! My first wait was 1 and half hours.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> On, or around, March 4th, we will begin reorganizing our channel line-up to serve you better. The channel positions for Digital programming currently carried on channels 100 and above will change.
> 
> 
> The following changes will also take place at that time in the former Adelphia service areas:
> 
> The following channels will be added to Digital Basic –CNN International, Inspiration Network, Reelz Channel, and ShopNBC; added to the new Digital Choice Tier – Boomerang, Ovation, and PBS Sprout; added to the Spanish Language Tier – Boomerang en Espanol, Canal Sur, Galavision, La Familia, Mun2, and MTV en Espanol; added as new foreign language premium services – DW TV, and Zee TV; added to FREE HD – A&E HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD and History HD; move from Digital Basic to Expanded Basic – Hallmark, Turner Classic Movies, TV One, MTV2 and VH-1 Classic; added to premium channel multiplexes – @MAX, 5StarMAX, OuterMAX, WMAX, Showtime Family, Showtime Next, and Showtime Women; move from Digital Plus to Digital Basic – BET on Jazz, Biography, CNBC World, and History Channel International; move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Tier – Country Music Television, and Village TV; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Choice Tier – DIY, Family Land, and Nick Too; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Sports Tier – Fox Sports en Espanol; move to position 76 on Expanded Basic – SportsTime Ohio; will be dropped from the line-up – AZN, Canal 52 MX, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, VH-1 Country, VH-1 Soul, and the West Coast feeds of Showtime, TMC, FLIX, and Encore Themes.
> 
> 
> The following changes will also take place at that time in the former Comcast service areas: The following channels will be added to Digital Basic – CNN International, Inspiration Network, American Life, CCTV9, and Reelz Channel; added to the new Digital Choice Tier – Boomerang, Family Land and PBS Sprout; added to the new Spanish Language Tier – Boomerang en Espanol, Canal Sur, Galavision, La Familia, Mun2, CineLatino, CNN en Espanol, Discovery en Espanol, ESPN Deportes, History en Espanol, Toon Disney en Espanol, and MTV en Espanol; added as new foreign language premium services – DW TV, ART, Filipino TV, RAI International, TV Asia, TV Japan, TV Russia, TV5 France, and Zee TV; added to FREE HD – A&E HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD and History HD; move from Digital Basic to Expanded Basic – Hallmark, TV One,VH-1 Classic, and MTV2; added to premium channel multiplexes –Showtime Family, Showtime Next, and Showtime Women; move from Digital Plus or Premier to Digital Basic – BET on Jazz, Biography, Bloomberg, Current, Discovery Home, Investigation Discovery, FIT TV, Fox Movie Channel, Fuse, Great American Country, Lifetime Movie Network, Military Channel, and History Channel International; move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Tier – Country Music Television; added to the Digital Sports Tier – Fox Sports en Espanol; move to position 76 on Expanded Basic – SportsTime Ohio; move from the Sports Tier to Digital Basic – Fox Soccer, and TV Games, move from Digital Basic to the new Movie Tier – FLIX; will be dropped from the line-up – AZN, GOL TV, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, VH-1 Country, VH-1 Soul, and the West Coast feeds of Showtime, TMC, Starz!, FLIX, Sundance, and Encore Themes.
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.
> 
> 
> The following changes will also take place at that time in original Time Warner Cable service areas:
> 
> The following channels will be added to Digital Basic - CCTV9, Reelz Channel, ShopNBC, and TBN; added to the new Digital Choice Tier – Boomerang, Daystar, Family Land, Nick Too, Ovation, PBS Sprout and Inspirational Life; added to the Spanish Language Tier – Boomerang en Espanol, Fox Sports en Espanol, History en Espanol and Toon Disney en Espanol; added to the Movie Tier – FLIX and IFC; added as new foreign language premium services – Filipino Channel, TV Japan, TV Russia, and TV5 France; added to FREE HD – A&E HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD and History HD; move from Digital Basic to Expanded Basic – MTV2, Science Channel, TV One, and VH-1 Classic; added to premium channel multiplexes – HBO Latino, STARZ! Comedy, and STARZ! HD; move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Tier – Discovery Health, FIT TV, Great American Country, and Inspiration Network; move from Digital Basic to the new Digital Choice Tier – DIY and Fine Living; will be dropped from the line-up – Disney West, Showtime West and TMC West feeds, Puma, and Sorpresa.



*4 HD channels are being added: FOOD, HGTV, HISTORY and A&E. 1 Premium HD channel, STARZ HD is also being added. No word on whether or not the local CW WBNX-DT will be added.


*Because of TW's acquisition of Adelphia and some Comcast, NE Ohio has been on differnet line ups. The line ups are going to be standardized between all areas. Channels that are not in some areas are being added.


*The line ups are going to be arranged to group channels by genre. (IE: Nickelodeon and Disney will be in close proximity to each other.)


*No word on whether or not Mystro Navigator will be deployed in NE Ohio.


----------



## stuart628

I didnt think TWCNEO had starz hd? if that is the case, it is 5 HD channels being added


----------



## stuart628

they are adding starz HD, its in that paragraph you quoted and the link I gave


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13013553
> 
> 
> they are adding starz HD, its in that paragraph you quoted and the link I gave



Thanks for that! In all that info I must've missed it. I still think it is s---ty they are adding that before WBNX.


----------



## stuart628

no problem, I understand your frustration, but at least this is a step in the right direction, I gotta be honest here, i am a Huge satellite guy...but Cable is going to be VERY hard to beat when they get SDV up and running for tv, just think, on Demand, Good HD channels, now if Time warner would get Big ten and NFL network, they would have tons of customers! But we will see, I am glad they are taking baby steps in the right direction!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13014485
> 
> 
> no problem, I understand your frustration, but at least this is a step in the right direction, I gotta be honest here, i am a Huge satellite guy...but Cable is going to be VERY hard to beat when they get SDV up and running for tv, just think, on Demand, Good HD channels, now if Time warner would get Big ten and NFL network, they would have tons of customers! But we will see, I am glad they are taking baby steps in the right direction!



First, they already have an on demand HD Channel. I have attempted to use it twice and found it so frustrating that I never attempted to use it again B10 and NFL will not happen unless those networks agree to be put on TW's "Sports Tier". I don't know what the overalll plan is for that but unless they moved STO to that tier I won't buy it. That's me, personally.


I don't think STO would go there because TW and STO worked together to start that up so that may not happen for a couple of years. I hope.


I've never seen SDV in action but if it works anything like On Demand then you better start your channel about 5 minutes early and pray for a real connection. On Demand takes forever to load it seems. I can't imagine setting my DVR to record something on an SDV channel and then having it sying "please wait, connecting" 5 or times. Heck, you'd miss the first 5 minutes of the show.


I still the SDV is at lest another year away, in the meantime TW will lose more and more subscribers to those who purchase HD televisions.


----------



## hookbill

I saw this last night before I went to bed. I also saw it just a few minutes ago on the front page of the L.A. Times.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22968561/ 

*LOS ANGELES - A breakthrough in contract talks has been reached between Hollywood studios and striking writers and could lead to a tentative deal as early as next week, a person close to the ongoing negotiations said Saturday.


The two sides breached the gap Friday on the thorniest issues, those concerning compensation for projects distributed via the Internet, said the person, who requested anonymity because he were not authorized to speak publicly.


A second person familiar with the talks, also speaking on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to comment publicly, said that significant progress had been made and a deal might be announced within a week.


The people did not provide specific details on the possible agreement. Major points of contention include how much and when writers are paid for projects delivered online after they've been broadcast on TV.


The studios have been insisting that programs be streamed online for a certain period, deemed promotional, during which writers would forgo residuals. When payment kicked in, the companies sought to limit it to a flat $1,200 fee, while the guild wanted a percentage of a distributor's revenue.


The Writers Guild of America did not immediately reply to a request for comment. The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, the trade group representing the studios, declined comment, citing a news blackout agreed to by both sides during the talks.


Guild leaders have said they are fighting for a piece of the future, reflecting the widespread belief that Internet-delivered entertainment fare would inevitably claim an increasing and perhaps even dominant market share.


Although work remains to be done on elements of the agreement, prospects for a deal appeared solid, said those close to the situation. The tentative agreement would have to be approved by a majority of guild members.*


Let's keep our fingers crossed. With Jack Bauer out of the drunk tank maybe there will be hope for another season of 24.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13014775
> 
> 
> I've never seen SDV in action but if it works anything like On Demand then you better start your channel about 5 minutes early and pray for a real connection. On Demand takes forever to load it seems. I can't imagine setting my DVR to record something on an SDV channel and then having it sying "please wait, connecting" 5 or times. Heck, you'd miss the first 5 minutes of the show.
> 
> 
> I still the SDV is at lest another year away, in the meantime TW will lose more and more subscribers to those who purchase HD televisions.



I know very little about SDV, but I do know of a person in NYC who uses Cablevision (one of the earliest adopters of SDV) and the switching is instaneous. Of course, this is dependent on having all of the correct and updated hardware & software across the entire distribution network.


SDV was described to me as follows: "..With a computer you have access to every single site, page, document, store, library, etc.... on the internet. Your computer is *selecting* what it wants sent to your computer, displays it, and does so very quickly. Conversely, if the entire contents of the internet were sent to your computer, your computer would display nothing (i.e. CRASH)..."


Obviously it's an over simplified "dummies guide to SDV" explanation, but it sure made sense to me.


----------



## hershsa

Anyone else still have problems with FoxHD using QAM tuner? Still don't have it at 8-1, did it move somewhere else?


----------



## Coin Ops

I just rescanned here in North Olmsted and it's still not showing up....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Coin Ops* /forum/post/13015092
> 
> 
> I just rescanned here in North Olmsted and it's still not showing up....




I'm in Bainbridge and I'm getting FOX 8 with not problem. Of course I'm using the TiVo S3 and upstairs my HD converter box.










Sorry guys, I think I accidentally took one of my wife's wise ass pills this morning.


----------



## Norm78

Just checked and FOX 8.1 is working at my house. I live in Northfield, previously an Adelphia customer.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13014948
> 
> 
> Anyone else still have problems with FoxHD using QAM tuner? Still don't have it at 8-1, did it move somewhere else?



If you haven't already, try using the channel up/down on your remote to see what your most recent scan has picked up, including areas where you haven't found QAM stations before.


Depending upon your tuner, and if the cable company has not yet remapped the channel to the "8-1" format, it could be buried amongst other analog stations, or have a different number.


For example, on my system (WOW), WJW-HD used to be 202 and WOIO-HD was at 201, but now WJW is 88-202, and WOIO is 82-201 as they have been moved, but not yet been remapped. Previously, all of the QAM stations were on channels 101 and higher, so I thought that WJW was gone, until I looked at the lower numbered channels, which were previously analog-only. However, WEWS-HD and WKYC-HD are still remapped to 200 and 203 respectively.


Hope this helps.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13014870
> 
> 
> I know very little about SDV, but I do know of a person in NYC who uses Cablevision (one of the earliest adopters of SDV) and the switching is instaneous. Of course, this is dependent on having all of the correct and updated hardware & software across the entire distribution network.
> 
> 
> SDV was described to me as follows: "..With a computer you have access to every single site, page, document, store, library, etc.... on the internet. Your computer is *selecting* what it wants sent to your computer, displays it, and does so very quickly. Conversely, if the entire contents of the internet were sent to your computer, your computer would display nothing (i.e. CRASH)..."
> 
> 
> Obviously it's an over simplified "dummies guide to SDV" explanation, but it sure made sense to me.




I don't quite get the analogy in the middle paragraph but I'm happy to hear that you've heard good reports about how channel changing occurres with SDV.


What worries me however is the part about having "correct and updated software." I really don't know what software I have in my HD Converter box, I'll have to take a look. I've heard that they don't give out HD converter boxes anymore, they just give you a DVR. And that would mean Navigator.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13015231
> 
> 
> I don't quite get the analogy in the middle paragraph but I'm happy to hear that you've heard good reports about how channel changing occurres with SDV.
> 
> 
> What worries me however is the part about having "correct and updated software." I really don't know what software I have in my HD Converter box, I'll have to take a look. I've heard that they don't give out HD converter boxes anymore, they just give you a DVR. And that would mean Navigator.



The analogy is that, essentially, at this time your cable box is being sent EVERY channel on the system. Your cable box is filtering what you have not subscribed to / paid for. This is a tremendous waste of bandwidth. With SDV your cable box will only get what specific channel you are requesting, instantaneously (if the infrastructure is properly implemented).


I think most cable STB's can be re-programmed (FW Update) to accomplish this. One of the great selling points to the cable industry is NOT having to replace the millions of STB's currently in use.


I think much of your "wait" for VOD-PPV is that your box is *verifying* who you are and *authorizing* your purchase. I use WOW cable and it has numerous VOD services, both pay & free. I've never done a PPV in my life, but the free WOW VOD takes maybe 2 seconds to load & start playing. And I highly doubt WOW is currently using an SDV system for all channels (i.e. system wide), but I'm only guessing.


----------



## HDTD

I've noticed major WKYC-HD lip sync issues this weekend, can anyone confirm if it's limited to my Cox cable, or are people seeing it OTA (if anyone can get it







) and on other cable providers?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/13015708
> 
> 
> I've noticed major WKYC-HD lip sync issues this weekend, can anyone confirm if it's limited to my Cox cable, or are people seeing it OTA (if anyone can get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and on other cable providers?



WKYC OTA seems fine here.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/13015224
> 
> 
> If you haven't already, try using the channel up/down on your remote to see what your most recent scan has picked up, including areas where you haven't found QAM stations before.
> 
> 
> Depending upon your tuner, and if the cable company has not yet remapped the channel to the "8-1" format, it could be buried amongst other analog stations, or have a different number.
> 
> 
> For example, on my system (WOW), WJW-HD used to be 202 and WOIO-HD was at 201, but now WJW is 88-202, and WOIO is 82-201 as they have been moved, but not yet been remapped. Previously, all of the QAM stations were on channels 101 and higher, so I thought that WJW was gone, until I looked at the lower numbered channels, which were previously analog-only. However, WEWS-HD and WKYC-HD are still remapped to 200 and 203 respectively.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



Just went through all the channels. No luck. I even took the channels i deleted (encrypted ones i think) and whent throuhg those. I've called time warner 3 times and they have no idea what QAM tuner is.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13015883
> 
> 
> ...I've called time warner 3 times and they have no idea what QAM tuner is.



That explains a LOT!!!










My tuner on my Phillips lcd in my living room has a funky glitch in it's tuner's mapping. When ever I do a scan, one of the channels is put on channel 0... yes zero. So, food for thought there...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13015883
> 
> 
> I've called time warner 3 times and they have no idea what QAM tuner is.



Sorry, I gotta laugh at that one too.







Look, I don't really know what a QAM tuner is and I'm a member of this forum. So if I don't know what it is why in the world would you expect a TW rep to know what it is?










OK, I kind of do know what a QAM tuner is I just don't know much about them. My point just in case you missed it is most of us - no make it ALL of us are more knowledgeable then a TW rep.


Keep looking, you'll find it. And if you don't you can go watch the game at Smarty-Pants's house. I'd invite you over to mine but I only have 2 recliners in my living room and even the wife watches the Super Bowl. The rest of the room has 5 large bird cages in it and I don't think you'd be comfortable sitting on a perch. Then again if you try to sit on one of their perches you probably would get bit. That would require stitches and you'd have to watch it in a hospital room on standard definition. That wouldn't be any fun. So go to Smarty-Pants's house.










I went on about that one way too long, didn't I?


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13016077
> 
> 
> Sorry, I gotta laugh at that one too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I don't really know what a QAM tuner is and I'm a member of this forum. So if I don't know what it is why in the world would you expect a TW rep to know what it is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I kind of do know what a QAM tuner is I just don't know much about them. My point just in case you missed it is most of us - no make it ALL of us are more knowledgeable then a TW rep.
> 
> 
> Keep looking, you'll find it. And if you don't you can go watch the game at Smarty-Pants's house. I'd invite you over to mine but I only have 2 recliners in my living room and even the wife watches the Super Bowl. The rest of the room has 5 large bird cages in it and I don't think you'd be comfortable sitting on a perch. Then again if you try to sit on one of their perches you probably would get bit. That would require stitches and you'd have to watch it in a hospital room on standard definition. That wouldn't be any fun. So go to Smarty-Pants's house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went on about that one way too long, didn't I?



Just a bit but thats alright. Yeah I guess I don't expect the reps know what it is but I wish they would ask someone. The first guy I talked to called the Cleveland "somethign" center to see if they were having issues sending signals out. He came back and said "well you have QAM tuner right?" yeah, "well everythign is fine on our end you shoudl be able to see.


So there is Someone within Time Warner that knows about this stuff. All would like is to talk with someone that can be like well were still sending it and you might be able to find it here. Little too much to ask I guess.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/12875460
> 
> 
> I got a new Panasonic set on Friday night. Unhooked the old Panasonic after my wife went to bed and hooked up the new one. Before I unhooked the old one we had been watching WOIO's HD feed on 19.1. After the new set was hooked up I ran the scan of digital channels and it did not tune in WOIO (actually the old set also tuned in a PBS HD signal on 25.1 I believe; the only channels I was able to get on this one were WEWS, WKYC, WJW, and WUAB). I've run the scan two or three times since then, but still no luck. My old set went to my folks who live in Ashtabula County; I was unable to tune in WOIO on my old set at their house as well.
> 
> 
> I have cable through TWC, not using an antenna as I don't have one, but I was previously able to get these couple channels and I'm not now. I'm in South Euclid.
> 
> 
> Help please?



I often wondered in the recent years with 'everyone' reaching into the pocketbooks on a monthly basis for cable if the manufactures are putting in degraded tuners simply because they are seldom used...ie: my 1984 Zenith tuner is far superior to the one in the 2006 Philips.


Holy Toledo....


About 6 months back my unit's antenna was struck by lightning, thus blowing out the tuner in the VCR completly (I think, havent put it on the bench yet) (3rd VCR lost in last 2 years to lightning & power surges, & these were on surge protectors) . Seemed it only affected the VHF portion of the antenna though. Upon experimenting, I pulled out my old 1978 RCA 12" b/w, with a Mechanical tuner, low & behold ... no 3 5 & 8, but a very nice picture on 13 (???) first thought something was off on the tuning knob, as at times I can pick up 8 without an antenna.... this time I was only pulling in 13 Toledo just using the coax wiring as an antenna, not even a heartbeat on the other VHF channels.


----------



## Bismarck440

Now, I'm wondering how well these new ATSC Converters will work, since I'm in the low lying fringes of Lake County.... meaning I'll likely get freezing & blocking.


Are these using a RF converson over to Channel 3 or 4, or using the AV inputs on the existing sets?


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/13015708
> 
> 
> I've noticed major WKYC-HD lip sync issues this weekend, can anyone confirm if it's limited to my Cox cable, or are people seeing it OTA (if anyone can get it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and on other cable providers?



I noticed lip sync problems on Jay Leno the other night on HD. Then they dropped the signal (carrier) for a second after that the sync was OK. But I'm on Cox also.


----------



## Coin Ops

There appears to be a synch problem on Time Warner too...


----------



## dman081

Fox HD used to be 8-1 here in fairlawn (north side of Akron) too. And today its is no longer available. I've done 2 rescans and its just gone. I'd call Timewarner. But, after all the wait I know I'll have to endure, there's not much chance anyone I talk to will understand the issue, let alone be able to explain what's going wrong, or provide any compensation.


----------



## jtscherne

Directv is running an MPEG-4 broadcast of the "big game" on Channel 701. Watching it, it seems like Channel 8's local audio is not as loud out of the rear speakers. I'm going back and forth and the national feed on Directv is MUCH louder.


----------



## afidel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/13015224
> 
> 
> If you haven't already, try using the channel up/down on your remote to see what your most recent scan has picked up, including areas where you haven't found QAM stations before.
> 
> 
> Depending upon your tuner, and if the cable company has not yet remapped the channel to the "8-1" format, it could be buried amongst other analog stations, or have a different number.
> 
> 
> For example, on my system (WOW), WJW-HD used to be 202 and WOIO-HD was at 201, but now WJW is 88-202, and WOIO is 82-201 as they have been moved, but not yet been remapped. Previously, all of the QAM stations were on channels 101 and higher, so I thought that WJW was gone, until I looked at the lower numbered channels, which were previously analog-only. However, WEWS-HD and WKYC-HD are still remapped to 200 and 203 respectively.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thank you SO much, I was wondering WTF was up with Fox HD moving. I was so bummed about watching the Super Bowl in SD. Now I can watch the second half in HD. I wish they would stop the shell games with the QAM assignments!


----------



## dman081




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afidel* /forum/post/13019625
> 
> 
> Thank you SO much, I was wondering WTF was up with Fox HD moving. I was so bummed about watching the Super Bowl in SD. Now I can watch the second half in HD. I wish they would stop the shell games with the QAM assignments!



Care to share which channel you found Fox HD at?


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dman081* /forum/post/13020126
> 
> 
> Care to share which channel you found Fox HD at?



Is that guy serious, he posts that and doesnt even say what channel he found it on. That is unbelievable. Thanks bud.


----------



## afidel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dman081* /forum/post/13020126
> 
> 
> Care to share which channel you found Fox HD at?



88-202 just like in the message I quoted.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afidel* /forum/post/13020440
> 
> 
> 88-202 just like in the message I quoted.



Thanks for the reply. I don't get 88-202 on my TV (Samsung 4061), not sure why.


----------



## dman081




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afidel* /forum/post/13020440
> 
> 
> 88-202 just like in the message I quoted.



It seems we must have different cable systems. For me, 88-202 isn't available.


----------



## hershsa

Yeah, I'm Time Warner in Mayfield Heights and no 202 for me. Great time for them to make changes. Part of me wishes the encrypted and thus broke the law but I doubt that.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *afidel* /forum/post/13019625
> 
> 
> Thank you SO much, I was wondering WTF was up with Fox HD moving. I was so bummed about watching the Super Bowl in SD. Now I can watch the second half in HD. I wish they would stop the shell games with the QAM assignments!



You're very welcome. Glad I could help. BTW, moving channels is typically a good sign, meaning that they're looking to free up space for new channels. The last time WOW did this, several other HD channels (HDNet, HDNet Movies, NFL-HD, TNT-HD, HGTV-HD) were in the clear for a couple of weeks. Then, about a month or so later, several new HD channels were added and ESPN-HD and TNT-HD were moved to the basic HD tier.


----------



## lefkas

Thanks to the people at Channel 27 in Youngstown who opened up Channel 27-3 (FOX-HD) OTA over the weekend and carried the Super Bowl in HD for those of us with antennas. FOX 8-Cleveland is sometimes sporadic down here in North Canton with a rabbit ears, but 27-3 came in solid all night. Don't know if the station plans to keep 27-3 on or go back and make 27-1 CBS-HD again. It reverted to SD over the weekend. I guess you can't broadcast 2 HD signals from the same frequency.


----------



## TYTONK

I was also a TWC customer that had to watch the Super Bowl in SD because they moved FOX8 from 8-1 that day! Still cannot find FOX8 in HD after 3 re-scans. I'm on TWC Macedonia. If anyone finds FOX8 HD please post here where you have found it. Also, it would be great if someone could post a listing of all the QAM (digital?) channels they have for comparison sake. Thanks for your help!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/13026763
> 
> 
> I was also a TWC customer that had to watch the Super Bowl in SD because they moved FOX8 from 8-1 that day! Still cannot find FOX8 in HD after 3 re-scans. I'm on TWC Macedonia. If anyone finds FOX8 HD please post here where you have found it. Also, it would be great if someone could post a listing of all the QAM (digital?) channels they have for comparison sake. Thanks for your help!



You might better entice others to take the time to post their QAM channels once you take the time to post yours.


----------



## 8IronBob

I'm wondering if Cox here in Parma's doing QAM? I was always curious about that. Of course, it's just much easier using their Scientific Atlanta via HDMI or Component for high-def anyway, but even so, since I'm using both my JVC 32" LCD, as well as a Hauppauge HVR-1800 on my PC, I just felt that QAM would do far better on a computer, even tho Vista Media Center doesn't support it... I know that WinTV 6 does, but I didn't notice that it picked up that much, unfortunately.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and I'm curious what would happen if I hooked in my SA STB (Scientific Atlanta Set-top Box) into the digital tuner on my Hauppauge...would that pick up the high-def channels (the 7xx ones)? If not, then I'll definitely anticipate that new HD tuner card that Hauppauge has coming out with that component input, then I'll definitely pick up high-def with that. Hopefully Vista MC will support that one.


----------



## stuart628

Well That storm about a week ago took out my satellite stuff (Blew the dish out of alignment-not off the roof, just out of alignment) and then when the power went out it shorted my switch. My install is a very custom job, and only one person will work on it, if you want I can post pictures. But anyways I have had some tv, but have to keep switching ports on the switch as only 2 of the 4 work. The alignment isnt a big deal as I think maybe someone will do it (again I was laughed at by most techs who told me to just go to cable) anyways I say all that to say this, my switch they want 120 bucks for...I have read and know that the dp44 switch is expensive, so I went down to time warner and got Two boxes Both 8240 HDC, I will have both dish network and Time warner for a Time and then I will fully make the switch to Time warner. I miss their on Demand and dont want to get custom jobs to do satellite anymore as we have alot of trees to our south...But I am debating on getting a TIVOHD, not a series three, I am just waiting to see how the dongle goes, SO hook if you can give me on of your contacts and work out a little discount that would be great







I kid I kid...its a sad day but I am at wits end (6months) for trying to make this satellite work at our new house, time to give in and know that it is not and its time for Cable.


Edit: By the way I would ALways suggest people go with Dish or Directv if you can, but I am now one of the many that cant


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, take that back, just hooked in a standard basic cable up to my TV, and went with the digital tuner, and it seems like it does pick up all the HD local channels, and a few digital cable channels, but only about a dozen or so, most of those under the 0-998 channel. The local channels are still what you would traditionally think, like 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 19-2, 43-1, 43-2, 25-1, 25-2, 55-1, 61-1, etc... Digital cable through QAM reception has WGN, WBNX, NHL Center Ice, WEAO/NEO, etc...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13026284
> 
> 
> Thanks to the people at Channel 27 in Youngstown who opened up Channel 27-3 (FOX-HD) OTA over the weekend and carried the Super Bowl in HD for those of us with antennas. FOX 8-Cleveland is sometimes sporadic down here in North Canton with a rabbit ears, but 27-3 came in solid all night. Don't know if the station plans to keep 27-3 on or go back and make 27-1 CBS-HD again. It reverted to SD over the weekend. I guess you can't broadcast 2 HD signals from the same frequency.



Thanks for the heads-up about 27-3! Unfortunately the last wind storm knocked my rooftop antenna that I had aimed at Youngstown way out of alignment (I used to get WKBN-DT 24/7 with that antenna).


How did you find out about 27-3?


----------



## salemtubes

Thomas Zocolo, WKBN's chief engineer, posted it in the Youngstown forum.


----------



## WKBN Chief

I should have put a post on this thread too. I know that a lot of you can pick us up and can sometimes get our DT better than some of the Cleveland stations.


----------



## Adam P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13017503
> 
> 
> I often wondered in the recent years with 'everyone' reaching into the pocketbooks on a monthly basis for cable if the manufactures are putting in degraded tuners simply because they are seldom used...ie: my 1984 Zenith tuner is far superior to the one in the 2006 Philips.
> 
> 
> Holy Toledo....
> 
> 
> About 6 months back my unit's antenna was struck by lightning, thus blowing out the tuner in the VCR completly (I think, havent put it on the bench yet) (3rd VCR lost in last 2 years to lightning & power surges, & these were on surge protectors) . Seemed it only affected the VHF portion of the antenna though. Upon experimenting, I pulled out my old 1978 RCA 12" b/w, with a Mechanical tuner, low & behold ... no 3 5 & 8, but a very nice picture on 13 (???) first thought something was off on the tuning knob, as at times I can pick up 8 without an antenna.... this time I was only pulling in 13 Toledo just using the coax wiring as an antenna, not even a heartbeat on the other VHF channels.




I wound up finding WOIO on 113-2, but now like many others here I'm unable to pull in Fox HD. Fortunately yesterday I was watching the game at a house with DirecTV. Wouldn't mind watching all our Brownies (up to 6 now) in the Pro Bowl in HD next Sunday though.


----------



## 8IronBob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/13030352
> 
> 
> I should have put a post on this thread too. I know that a lot of you can pick us up and can sometimes get our DT better than some of the Cleveland stations.



Well, I don't think that Cox would have that channel, anyway. Me being here in Parma, just SW of Cleveland, I'm lucky to get the selection I do, let alone something as far east as Youngstown.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13017552
> 
> 
> Now, I'm wondering how well these new ATSC Converters will work, since I'm in the low lying fringes of Lake County.... meaning I'll likely get freezing & blocking.
> 
> 
> Are these using a RF converson over to Channel 3 or 4, or using the AV inputs on the existing sets?



I see the Samsung DTB-H260F available at BestBuy.com - first instance of an ATSC receiver I've seen at the mass-market places...


Doesn't appear to have RF out. It does have composite, component, S-video, and HDMI output, along with two-channel analog audio. I suspect this will be close to what becomes standard for this type of box.


Time to dig up an old RF modulator - my in-laws will be calling on me to DTV-ize their old set...










mike


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13032340
> 
> 
> Doesn't appear to have RF out. It does have composite, component, S-video, and HDMI output, along with two-channel analog audio.



Just downloaded the manual for this box. It does have an RF out, but due to lack of a "3/4 switch" and what the manual says, it seems this is just a pass-through from the RF input.


Also present is an optical Dolby Digital Out audio jack. There is a switch on the back to select output format - 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13028336
> 
> 
> Well, take that back, just hooked in a standard basic cable up to my TV, and went with the digital tuner, and it seems like it does pick up all the HD local channels, and a few digital cable channels, but only about a dozen or so, most of those under the 0-998 channel. The local channels are still what you would traditionally think, like 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 19-2, 43-1, 43-2, 25-1, 25-2, 55-1, 61-1, etc... Digital cable through QAM reception has WGN, WBNX, NHL Center Ice, WEAO/NEO, etc...



Who is your provider? I have Time Warner and was wondering if yours is the same. Thanks in advance.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13027456
> 
> 
> .But I am debating on getting a TIVOHD, not a series three, I am just waiting to see how the dongle goes, SO hook if you can give me on of your contacts and work out a little discount that would be great
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kid I kid...its a sad day but I am at wits end (6months) for trying to make this satellite work at our new house, time to give in and know that it is not and its time for Cable.
> 
> 
> Edit: By the way I would ALways suggest people go with Dish or Directv if you can, but I am now one of the many that cant




Yes, D* is great. I don't like Dish but thats me.


Now in regards to the dongle, first it's not even available yet and second they don't use SDV on TW here in TW NEO. I would strongly recommend you get the TiVo HD mimimally. However keep in mind that with the TiVo HD you can only use the authorized eSATA's by TiVo and the max on those are 500gb. The S3 you can use any eSATA.


On the other hand I use a 500gb eSATA and that works fine for me. If necessary I would move programs to my computer hard drive but I really haven't had to do that.


The dongle is suppose to be available "second quarter" of this year and you would get it from the cable company. Obviously if TW doesn't use SDV in our area there would be no dongle.


----------



## stuart628

I know the dongle isnt available, thats why I am waiting on the tivo, I LOVE on Demand programming and I couldnt just give it up, so I will put up with navagaitor and its headaches till they can get the whole cable card thing done...and this is all dependent on Time warner playing nicely I have an appointment to hook my boxes up tommorow, but I had to fight to get that she said feb 25th would be the first one open....that is crazy!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/13026763
> 
> 
> I was also a TWC customer that had to watch the Super Bowl in SD because they moved FOX8 from 8-1 that day! Still cannot find FOX8 in HD after 3 re-scans. I'm on TWC Macedonia. If anyone finds FOX8 HD please post here where you have found it. Also, it would be great if someone could post a listing of all the QAM (digital?) channels they have for comparison sake. Thanks for your help!



Here are the QAM "in the clear" channels that I have defined in my HTPC. There are many others, but these are the ones that I keep in my favorites list (in other words, this is most of the HD channels). This is on Time Warner in the Chagrin Falls area. The name, physical channel, and subchannel are the only things that matter in this list:


;MyHD Channel Data File

;Macro Image Technology


;****************************

[INPUT1]

count = 10



[INPUT1 No. 1]

Name = Weather+

PhyCH = 103

VirCH = 715

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 10

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 10

Sourceid = 1184


[INPUT1 No. 2]

Name = T/W Bonus HD

PhyCH = 106

VirCH = 780

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 1

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 1

Sourceid = 1368


[INPUT1 No. 3]

Name = WKYC-HD

PhyCH = 104

VirCH = 3

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 3

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 3

Sourceid = 47


[INPUT1 No. 4]

Name = WEWS HD

PhyCH = 105

VirCH = 5

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 1

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 5

Sourceid = 30


[INPUT1 No. 5]

Name = WJW HD

PhyCH = 105

VirCH = 8

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 8

Sourceid = 31


[INPUT1 No. 6]

Name = WOIO-HD

PhyCH = 113

VirCH = 19

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 2

Sourceid = 32


[INPUT1 No. 7]

Name = WVIZ-HD

PhyCH = 113

VirCH = 25

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 1

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 1

Sourceid = 34


[INPUT1 No. 8]

Name = WUAB-DT

PhyCH = 104

VirCH = 43

MinCh = 1

SubCh = 4

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 6

Sourceid = 44


[INPUT1 No. 9]

Name = DSCHD

PhyCH = 86

VirCH = 776

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 3

Sourceid = 1776


[INPUT1 No. 10]

Name = TNTHD

PhyCH = 88

VirCH = 779

MinCh = -1

SubCh = 2

TunerInputType = CABLE

SignalType = ATSC_256QAM

Programnumber = 3

Sourceid = 1779


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13031881
> 
> 
> Well, I don't think that Cox would have that channel, anyway. Me being here in Parma, just SW of Cleveland, I'm lucky to get the selection I do, let alone something as far east as Youngstown.



WKBN-DT hits Parma with a strong signal! All you need is a directional outdoor UHF antenna aimed a little bit south of due East.

(I thought I had posted this yesterday but it either disappeared or got deleted somehow)


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13037459
> 
> 
> WKBN-DT hits Parma with a strong signal! All you need is a directional outdoor UHF antenna aimed a little bit south of due East.
> 
> (I thought I had posted this yesterday but it either disappeared or got deleted somehow)



Many of yesterdays posts were lost to a server problem.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13032340
> 
> 
> I see the Samsung DTB-H260F available at BestBuy.com - first instance of an ATSC receiver I've seen at the mass-market places...
> 
> 
> Doesn't appear to have RF out. It does have composite, component, S-video, and HDMI output, along with two-channel analog audio. I suspect this will be close to what becomes standard for this type of box.
> 
> 
> Time to dig up an old RF modulator - my in-laws will be calling on me to DTV-ize their old set...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mike



That ($179) tuner has been out for a while - I have one. It's not the one intended for the DTV transition government coupons, though. The FCC is VERY specific about which models you can use the coupons for. Unfortunately those tuners are stripped bare and crippled in about every way possible, and expected to be priced around $40 - $60.


Edit: Here is the Insignia brand coupon-eligible tuner at Best Buy ($59). It has an RF out, so no need for a modulator.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1199495190393 


BTW, that looks exactly like the Zenith DTT900 box. Probably just rebranded for Best Buy.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13037762
> 
> 
> Many of yesterdays posts were lost to a server problem.



Thanks, for a moment I thought a mod deleted my post for being too specific about my location.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/13030352
> 
> 
> I should have put a post on this thread too. I know that a lot of you can pick us up and can sometimes get our DT better than some of the Cleveland stations.



According to Antenna Web, I'm within the range of WKBN, yet no heartbeat from any of the Y town stations analog or digital.... an occasional faint picture on 21, & this is using a larger antenna & amp.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13038244
> 
> 
> That ($179) tuner has been out for a while - I have one. It's not the one intended for the DTV transition government coupons, though. The FCC is VERY specific about which models you can use the coupons for. Unfortunately those tuners are stripped bare and crippled in about every way possible, and expected to be priced around $40 - $60.
> 
> 
> Edit: Here is the Insignia brand coupon-eligible tuner at Best Buy ($59). It has an RF out, so no need for a modulator.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1199495190393
> 
> 
> BTW, that looks exactly like the Zenith DTT900 box. Probably just rebranded for Best Buy.




I'll have to do a look see, TY... & what do you mean by crippled? Crippled in features, performance, or both?


From what I understand, Insignia is made by a dozen different manufactures, & rebranded for BB.. & Zenith is now owned by Funi??? The boxes they have been showing on Fox8 this past week are about as big as a VCR, & have a channel display, much like a cable box


Guess it might be time to can the vintage sets, though the Zenith still has a great picture.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13037762
> 
> 
> Many of yesterdays posts were lost to a server problem.



I finally crawl back out of the woodwork after 6 months & most of my posts get deleted.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13038244
> 
> 
> BTW, that looks exactly like the Zenith DTT900 box. Probably just rebranded for Best Buy.



Actually by doing a search, it's made by LG, who owns Zenith, my bad.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,14...s/article.html


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13028974
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up about 27-3! Unfortunately the last wind storm knocked my rooftop antenna that I had aimed at Youngstown way out of alignment (I used to get WKBN-DT 24/7 with that antenna).
> 
> 
> How did you find out about 27-3?



It showed up on my EPG that displays on screen with my Sylvania ATSC tuner. I did not even need to re-scan to find it. Regardless, it is gone now as WKBN has reverted to CBS-HD on 27-1 and FOX-SD on 27-2.


----------



## banditt414

Well right before the superbowl I tried to pull in 8-1. I was always able to get it until right then. Fox must have hid it some how since today I did a rescan it comes in fine. I was able to watch it with my timewarner box but sometimes the hd comes in screwy through it. So I rather watch football in hd w/o the box.


Like I said I am able to get Fox on 8-1 today.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13038244
> 
> 
> Edit: Here is the Insignia brand coupon-eligible tuner at Best Buy ($59). It has an RF out, so no need for a modulator.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1199495190393
> 
> 
> BTW, that looks exactly like the Zenith DTT900 box. Probably just rebranded for Best Buy.



I called a local BB. They know about it but have no idea when they are getting them.


----------



## nataslgl

I belong to the NATAS Lower Great Lakes chapter, and I thought this luncheon would be of interest to all who read this forum. Note that one of the speakers is Bill Jasso...


To mark the one year countdown until the digital switch, the NATAS Lower Great Lakes chapter is hosting a luncheon on Tuesday, February 19, 2008. The luncheon events will take place simultaneously in Cleveland, Toledo and Indianapolis, and are open to the public.


In Cleveland, it'll be held at the downtown Hilton Garden Inn, and will feature NAB speakers Steve Hyvonen, Berry Pinney and Time Warner Cable's Bill Jasso. Cleveland Plain Dealer columnist Tom Feran will moderate.


Complete information is available at the chapter website: nataslgl.org


----------



## 8IronBob




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *banditt414* /forum/post/13044516
> 
> 
> Well right before the superbowl I tried to pull in 8-1. I was always able to get it until right then. Fox must have hid it some how since today I did a rescan it comes in fine. I was able to watch it with my timewarner box but sometimes the hd comes in screwy through it. So I rather watch football in hd w/o the box.
> 
> 
> Like I said I am able to get Fox on 8-1 today.



Well, Cox Communications didn't have any trouble pulling that in for me over QAM lines. As a matter of fact, it seems as tho I'm getting far more local stations that I can ever get OTA over antenna. I think of my RCA Terrestrial HD antenna as being a nice, strong, stable antenna, but QAM is indeed the superior way to go. I only wish that Media Center PCs would support QAM, which I don't think M$ ever will with their stupid DRM campaign.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13045229
> 
> 
> Well, Cox Communications didn't have any trouble pulling that in for me over QAM lines. As a matter of fact, it seems as tho I'm getting far more local stations that I can ever get OTA over antenna. I think of my RCA Terrestrial HD antenna as being a nice, strong, stable antenna, but QAM is indeed the superior way to go. I only wish that Media Center PCs would support QAM, which I don't think M$ ever will with their stupid DRM campaign.



It might be your location as I get OTA HD locals without issue (except PBS obviously). Also, be careful of the "HD" branded antennas as the antenna specs for old UHF/VHF are no different than a now branded "HD" antenna. My dad gets beautiful HD OTA with a simple, no name, 1958 era, chimney mount antenna.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13043126
> 
> 
> According to Antenna Web, I'm within the range of WKBN, yet no heartbeat from any of the Y town stations analog or digital.... an occasional faint picture on 21, & this is using a larger antenna & amp.



First of all scrap the amp. I get WKBN-DT 24/7 with an unamplified Radio Shack cat 15-1260. The trick is to aim it a hair south of due east (this is from SE Parma). It has to be outside, not in an attic (actually I never tried in my attic).


I get more than a "faint" picture on 21 analog but digital 21 requires a little assistance from the atmosphere.


I'd like to someday put up a 40' tower to see if that brings in 21 digital (WFMJ-DT). What I'd really like to shoot for is 33 WYTV, the weakest of the Youngstown stations. All their transmitters are in the same general location.


I'm against using amplifiers because they overload with all the local transmitters being ~1 mile from here I had one when I lived in Seven Hills on a Radio Shack omnidirectional saucer antenna - I ended up unplugging the power adder due to the overload.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13048311
> 
> 
> First of all scrap the amp. I get WKBN-DT 24/7 with an unamplified Radio Shack cat 15-1260. The trick is to aim it a hair south of due east (this is from SE Parma). It has to be outside, not in an attic (actually I never tried in my attic).
> 
> 
> I get more than a "faint" picture on 21 analog but digital 21 requires a little assistance from the atmosphere.
> 
> 
> I'd like to someday put up a 40' tower to see if that brings in 21 digital (WFMJ-DT). What I'd really like to shoot for is 33 WYTV, the weakest of the Youngstown stations. All their transmitters are in the same general location.
> 
> 
> I'm against using amplifiers because they overload with all the local transmitters being ~1 mile from here I had one when I lived in Seven Hills on a Radio Shack omnidirectional saucer antenna - I ended up unplugging the power adder due to the overload.



Being in the low lying fringes of Lake County shadowed by the "ridge" I always rely on the amp (especially for UHF) made a big difference for 25, where even the local "repeaters" are inaccessable to me..... you are fotunate to live so close to the transmitters, that would even be a better reason to fight the resistance of getting cable!







... I'm likely getting less than half of the OTA that you are.










What is strange though is I always got a good picture here on UHF untill Cable arrived in the early 80's, since then the signal has been degraded, I was even able to pick up faintly the time/temperature on Channel 7 from the cable without having cable.


Believe in conspiracy theories?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13044855
> 
> 
> I called a local BB. They know about it but have no idea when they are getting them.



in order to use the coupon it has to be an in store purchase, only seem to be a few manufactures actually making these boxes, I'll likely have to wait for the reviews, or do a side by side, I would think there's a difference in sensitivity in these tuners.


What's this I'm reading about a built in program guide in them?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13049181
> 
> 
> What's this I'm reading about a built in program guide in them?



Part of the MPEG spec includes tables that can hold EPG information. Since the converters have to drill into the stream to get at the video, it doesn't take much more in terms of additional CPU horsepower or memory to extract the program listings also.


----------



## hookbill

On Fox news tonight they had someone on from TW and they were talking about the digital signal change. Now I thought for sure TW would take advantage of this and make people either purchase boxes or at the very least offer them for a low price for 1 year.


Much to my surprise they are going to down convert the signal from their side to analog so people who don't have boxes won't have to get one.


Of course my next thought was "what a waste of bandwith."


----------



## Smarty-pants

Well Hook, that's TW again... ignorantly and batently stupid, yet they continue to rake in the millions.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13050676
> 
> 
> Well Hook, that's TW again... ignorantly and batently stupid, yet they continue to rake in the millions.



I'm pretty sure that downconvert to analog thing is an FCC requirement for the cable systems.


The only way that TWC can get around it is to dump all analog feeds, which isn't happening soon. As long as they offer analog, they'll have to downconvert the OTA stations for those who have it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13051466
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that downconvert to analog thing is an FCC requirement for the cable systems.
> 
> 
> The only way that TWC can get around it is to dump all analog feeds, which isn't happening soon. As long as they offer analog, they'll have to downconvert the OTA stations for those who have it.



So they will have to downconvert *OTA* stations? What about other cable channels? Will those be included or is it just the OTA channels?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13049181
> 
> 
> in order to use the coupon it has to be an in store purchase, only seem to be a few manufactures actually making these boxes, I'll likely have to wait for the reviews, or do a side by side, I would think there's a difference in sensitivity in these tuners.
> 
> 
> What's this I'm reading about a built in program guide in them?



OTA digital includes video, Dolby Digital audio (5.1 & 2.0) and data (program info, channel lineup, channel guide, etc..) much like you can get from cab/sat systems.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13051681
> 
> 
> So they will have to downconvert *OTA* stations? What about other cable channels? Will those be included or is it just the OTA channels?



It's likely that they're already converting a digital signal to an analog one for the cable channels. Nothing is changing with traditional cable channels, they're just losing the analog source for local broadcasts.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13051466
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that downconvert to analog thing is an FCC requirement for the cable systems.
> 
> 
> The only way that TWC can get around it is to dump all analog feeds, which isn't happening soon. As long as they offer analog, they'll have to downconvert the OTA stations for those who have it.



The FCC is requiring cable/satellite to provide an analog and digital signal for 3 years after the transition (Feb 2009). At that point, the FCC will reconsider extending or not.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/13030352
> 
> 
> I should have put a post on this thread too. I know that a lot of you can pick us up and can sometimes get our DT better than some of the Cleveland stations.




An engineer had to be scrambled to the local receive site for Youngstown DirecTV Sunday morning to change the channel on the WKBN receiver. That receiver feeds the WKBN signal via fiber to the uplink.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13049364
> 
> 
> Part of the MPEG spec includes tables that can hold EPG information. Since the converters have to drill into the stream to get at the video, it doesn't take much more in terms of additional CPU horsepower or memory to extract the program listings also.



& no monthly monetary exchange is involved in this?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13049364
> 
> 
> Part of the MPEG spec includes tables that can hold EPG information. Since the converters have to drill into the stream to get at the video, it doesn't take much more in terms of additional CPU horsepower or memory to extract the program listings also.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13051972
> 
> 
> OTA digital includes video, Dolby Digital audio (5.1 & 2.0) and data (program info, channel lineup, channel guide, etc..) much like you can get from cab/sat systems.



So the extraction of this data is a menu function of the D/A converter box?


& again from what I read this is a bonus feature of these new boxes?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13053517
> 
> 
> So the extraction of this data is a menu function of the D/A converter box?
> 
> 
> & again from what I read this is a bonus feature of these new boxes?



The digital video, digital audio, digital data are all present in the signal. Whether particular converter boxes will allow you access to the DD and/or data is a function of the converter box. Being that these are the most simplistic and basic type of box available I'd bet there is no DD output and probably just converts all audio to standard 2 ch. But I'd guess access to the data portion is probably mandated.


All purely speculation on my part. I've been all HD for two years so I have not followed the d/a converter box issue.


----------



## HD MM

OT: Regarding iPod auxiliary connection in my car....


Since the "Portable Audio/Video" threads of AVS don't get a lot of reads, I wanted to ask the question the same question to my local friends here.


Hopefully someone can shed some light....


From this: original post. 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got a new '08 Ford Explorer and was excited to find out that it had an auxiliary input for an MP3 player. I figured this would provide a more "direct" connection than the typical FM transmitter that I was using through the cigarette lighter socket in my previous car. Well, upon connecting my iPod Nano to the auxiliary input using a 3.5mm male stereo plug to 3.5mm male stereo plug, all I was able to receive was mono sound! The sound only came through on the front driver's side speaker! Does anyone have a reason why this is happening, or a possible solution to achieve sound on all 4 speakers?
> 
> 
> Thank God my new Ford came with Sirius, or else I would go nuts listening to my mono iPod!


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/13052644
> 
> 
> The FCC is requiring cable/satellite to provide an analog and digital signal for 3 years after the transition (Feb 2009). At that point, the FCC will reconsider extending or not.



how can satellite provide analog? they are a all digital system....unless I am missing what you are getting at.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13055327
> 
> 
> how can satellite provide analog? they are a all digital system....unless I am missing what you are getting at.



I think he just meant cable. Satellite never carried analog, as you pointed out.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13055313
> 
> 
> OT: Regarding iPod auxiliary connection in my car....
> 
> 
> Since the "Portable Audio/Video" threads of AVS don't get a lot of reads, I wanted to ask the question the same question to my local friends here.
> 
> 
> Hopefully someone can shed some light....
> 
> 
> From this: original post.



I think it is probably your cable. Look at the ends, if there is just one ring, its a mono patch cable, 2 rings mean stereo. I think that's it anyway. Hope this helps.


----------



## AdamPS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13055313
> 
> 
> I just got a new '08 Ford Explorer and was excited to find out that it had an auxiliary input for an MP3 player. I figured this would provide a more "direct" connection than the typical FM transmitter that I was using through the cigarette lighter socket in my previous car. Well, upon connecting my iPod Nano to the auxiliary input using a 3.5mm male stereo plug to 3.5mm male stereo plug, all I was able to receive was mono sound! The sound only came through on the front driver's side speaker! Does anyone have a reason why this is happening, or a possible solution to achieve sound on all 4 speakers?
> 
> 
> Thank God my new Ford came with Sirius, or else I would go nuts listening to my mono iPod!



The exact same thing happened to me. I can almost 100% guarantee that it is the cable. I just went up to Radio Shack and got a short stereo-to-stereo cable for a few bucks and it works like a charm.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13053475
> 
> 
> & no monthly monetary exchange is involved in this?



The broadcasters insert their program listings into the digital guide at their own cost. The information is sent in the clear so any manufacturer of set top boxes is free to decode it and display it on the screen if they choose. I saw at least one unit that included an OSD feature, and it's a trivial matter to buffer that data and pump it through the OSD interface.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/13058861
> 
> 
> This is what all of the cable companies have agreed to do, at least for a period of time....



Yes, apparently others were aware of that as well since there have been comments on it already. I was simply surprised at how they are doing it. I knew of course that digital would be converted to analog....I just didnt' think they would do it at the headend.


As it works now those of us with digital receivers can receive either the digital or analog signal. Since they are receiving two signals I understand how they do it. But when they go to one digital signal it seems to me that it would be easier to have the signal converted to analog with a STB then to do it at headend.


I'm not an engineer so maybe I'm dead wrong. I'm just using common sense. And the other thing I don't understand is this would be a way for TW to pick up some more money. OK, they give the boxes out free for a few years if that's the agreement, then they could start charging people 3 years down the road.


And I wonder how they seperate the signal as it goes out? If someone has a box in one room and has other tv's just hooked up to regular cable from the wall, like I do, how the heck can headend know what to send?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13058988
> 
> 
> As it works now those of us with digital receivers can receive either the digital or analog signal. Since they are receiving two signals I understand how they do it. But when they go to one digital signal it seems to me that it would be easier to have the signal converted to analog with a STB then to do it at headend.
> 
> 
> ?



It makes sense. Instead of wasting bandwidth on digital AND analog signals, it would make more sense to send out a DIGITAL ONLY signal from the head end and force everyone to have a cable STB. It's about damn time cable starts weaning the cheap a$$ people who don't have STBs off the "analog teat". It would be an absolute CRIME if cable were to keep all the current analog offering available after 2/17/09. Once again it's cable pandering to cheap a$$ Joe Six Pack who doesn't want a cable box. DEAL WITH IT!! Is there really that much resistance to getting a STB? Other services(satellite, AT&T) require STBs. So should cable. Get with it cable. If you want to be takes seriously in the Digital/HDTV Age, DROP THE F****** ANALOG CRAP!!!!


----------



## Smarty-pants

I don't think anyone cares about having a STB, it's the fact that TW charges an outrageous fee every month to use the boxes that are sometimes outdated even, and most of the time problematic... and heaven forbid if something should happen to it, then they charge the customer 300% what the box is worth brand new.









I'd turn into a tickled-fancy-pants-boy if I could get basic digital cable with all the locals in HD with a STB for $20 a month. We all know THAT will NEVER happen.


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg is with me on the STB thing, but that's not what TW says they are going to do. And Smarty-Pants has a good point about the STB box.


But that doesn't answer the question. How does a signal go out and get changed at headend to downgrade it to an analog signal *if* the home has both STB's DVR's or maybe just a direct cable plugged into the tv?


In my home we have 2 HDTV's, one has a STB and of corse the other has my TiVo S3. But I have one more television in another room that is hooked up directly from the cable out of the wall. So some how headend needs to be able to send me both an analog signal and a digital signal. Now we all understand how that works now because they are still broadcasting in analog and digital. But how do they send out a downgraded digital signal and a regular digital signal at the same time to the same house? I mean I'm sure there must be a way to do it but it just seems very complicated to do.


Maybe the answer to this question simply lies in what they are doing now. They would send out a downgraded digital channel on lets say channel 803 for WKYC and the regular digital channel on channel 3 for WKYC. When it hits your box or TV it uses the proper signal.


And while we are talking about this is anyone else getting as annoyed as I am about WJW trying to explain this to people? Sure what we are talking about in the paragraphs above is a bit complicated but they make it sound like the vast majority of people out there are complete morons when it comes to digital and analog signals. Also they fail to mention that digital does not mean HD.


Then again maybe they are right. I'm so use to talking to you guys about it that I just think everyone understands it.


I sent WJW an email telling them that they make it sound more confusing then necessary. Of course it is sweeps month so they want to drag this huge "issue" out for as long as possible.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13060084
> 
> 
> How does a signal go out and get changed at headend to downgrade it to an analog signal *if* the home has both STB's DVR's or maybe just a direct cable plugged into the tv?



And what about the viewers w/o HDTVs? The "Big 6" networks all broadcast 16:9 on their digital feeds. Not all TV will be 16:9. That means some aspect ratio switching will be necessary. If the signal is downconverted at the head end, viewers will have to take whatever is being put out(either letterbox or center cut). Center cut would work with 4:3 content, but it would have to be switched to LB for 16:9, since I doubt anyhting on a HD channel will be 4:3 safe after the cutoff.


That's why it makes more sense to give every customer a STB and let them choose the aspect. Some may like hideous, overscanned center cropped picture because of a dislike of letterbox bars. Others want to see the whole picture. I only have one HDTV and I would love MORE letterboxed material on my SDTVs. Wish CBS, ABC and FOX did like NBC. Maybe I'm just weird because I like letterboxing.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13059241
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone cares about having a STB, it's the fact that TW charges an outrageous fee every month to use the boxes that are sometimes outdated even, and most of the time problematic... and heaven forbid if something should happen to it, then they charge the customer 300% what the box is worth brand new.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd turn into a tickled-fancy-pants-boy if I could get basic digital cable with all the locals in HD with a STB for $20 a month. We all know THAT will NEVER happen.



It would seem to us with logic that selling more boxes each month would mean lowering the cost. We all know how good Time Warner is in the logic department














.


TW has a few 100K+ customers in NE Ohio alone. Each customer would have at least one box, that's alot of money already. The numbers show now that most people have more than one TV. I have two STBs and would voluntarily add two more if they were less a month(I'd even like a HD STB for my little kitchen TV) just because the picture is better and you get the IPG with a STB.


As far as charging people, I don't feel bad for them. I've always had Time Warner equipment and never lost or damaged anything. The one tech that came to my house was talking about someone that had to pay $800 for a DVR(seems reasonable, since even the TIVO was about that much) because this customer poured water into the box and shorted it out. I talked to another customer in the parking lot of my local office who said one of his customers left a TW box in a rental and didn't return it. He asked if he should take it back. Once again, we all get the shaft from stupid people.


----------



## nickdawg

Question for Adelphia Viewers:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Go into your program guide and find the "Answers on Demand" channel. Tune to that channel and see if there are still any videos available explaining the menu systems. On PASSPORT in the Akron area, my AOD channel has a message on screen "Tune to Local On Demand Channel 1111 for troubleshooting information". Around the beginning of the month, all the PASSPORT videos disappeared.


Just curious if this is a sign of something to come.


Thank you


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13060182
> 
> 
> And what about the viewers w/o HDTVs? The "Big 6" networks all broadcast 16:9 on their digital feeds. Not all TV will be 16:9. That means some aspect ratio switching will be necessary. If the signal is downconverted at the head end, viewers will have to take whatever is being put out(either letterbox or center cut). Center cut would work with 4:3 content, but it would have to be switched to LB for 16:9, since I doubt anyhting on a HD channel will be 4:3 safe after the cutoff.



Well, being broadcast in digital and HD are not the same thing. For example you can watch channel 3 on TW and it is a digital broadcast, it just isn't the 1080i signal. It's only 480i digitally. Now if you go to the HD channel for 3 then you see the 1080i signal which may only be showing a 480i program. Hence you have the bars on the side of the set.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13060341
> 
> 
> Well, being broadcast in digital and HD are not the same thing. For example you can watch channel 3 on TW and it is a digital broadcast, it just isn't the 1080i signal. It's only 480i digitally. Now if you go to the HD channel for 3 then you see the 1080i signal which may only be showing a 480i program. Hence you have the bars on the side of the set.



Right now, that digital broadcast of 3 and all local channels is a digitized version of the analog channel. On 2/17/09, analog will be shut off. Unless the stations continue to send out a DIGITAL, SD feed, the only thing coming out will be 16:9(on WOIO,WEW,WJW,WKYC,WBNX,WUAB,WNEO). Currently none of the big 6 have digital SD simulcasts(except WNEO).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13049105
> 
> 
> Being in the low lying fringes of Lake County shadowed by the "ridge" I always rely on the amp (especially for UHF) made a big difference for 25, where even the local "repeaters" are inaccessable to me..... you are fotunate to live so close to the transmitters, that would even be a better reason to fight the resistance of getting cable!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... I'm likely getting less than half of the OTA that you are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is strange though is I always got a good picture here on UHF untill Cable arrived in the early 80's, since then the signal has been degraded, I was even able to pick up faintly the time/temperature on Channel 7 from the cable without having cable.
> 
> 
> Believe in conspiracy theories?



The problem with amps is that it's garbage in - garbage out. If you are behind a ridge you are receiving multipath which distorts the signal. Amplifiers cannot correct the problem they only amplify the problem. In analog that distortion may be only a faint ghost, but in digital that same distortion means you may not get a lock 24/7. Sure, you may get a pristine picture every now and then, but it's not a reliable signal. Atmospheric changes add to the problem (especially for you in Lake County with WOIO) which brings in distant signals on the same frequency which may mean you get nothing at all, or a pixelated mess.


BTW: If you have the ability I'd suggest putting up a tower to get OTA. If you could raise your antenna above the ridge, you would find that WKBN-DT is as strong as the Cleveland stations:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html 

Notice that their signal goes out *into Lake Erie* along the Lake County shore line! It's only the ridge that is blocking the signal.


Re: Cable channel 7 leakage - The condition that allowed you to see a cable channel without being connected is a big no-no on the cable system's part. Since cable uses bandwidth that is not assigned to TV broadcast OTA (i.e. the mid band and super band) the cable system has to eliminate leakage so that the OTA services in those frequencies (aircraft etc.) are not compromised.


Let me guess - this ch 7, was it by any chance was Continental Cablevision the cable company? They were notorious for poor wiring.


----------



## dleising

I called TW earlier in the week inquiring about another HD box for my house, the rep said that I can get another box added free of charge to my account. He said the EARLIEST that they could get someone out to my house would be at least 3 weeks. I told him I did not even want to do that anyway, and that I will go to a TW store to get the box and install it myself. So I went to the Akron (corner of West Ave. and Brittan Rd.) local store and add another HD box (non DVR) to my account. The rep I got looked frustrated and she really did not give a damn about anything. I told her about the free box that the telephone rep told me about and she was like "No way, you cant get one." I didn't want to argue so I told her to just add a box and I will pay for it. "HD DVR box is $15 addional dollars a month." She said. I said I don't want an HD DVR box, she then told me that HD DVR's are all they have, and they would get more non-DVR's in AT LEAST 4 WEEKS. I was ever so pissed! You would think they would have the proper hardware in stock at all times.


Bottom line: I think TW underestimated the HD surge very greatly. And their store support reps are asses to you.


----------



## Smarty-pants

TW unprepared, overpriced, poor service, mean to their customers... yep, sounds about right. (Sorry about your misfortunate experience







)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13060404
> 
> 
> Right now, that digital broadcast of 3 and all local channels is a digitized version of the analog channel. On 2/17/09, analog will be shut off. Unless the stations continue to send out a DIGITAL, SD feed, the only thing coming out will be 16:9(on WOIO,WEW,WJW,WKYC,WBNX,WUAB,WNEO). Currently none of the big 6 have digital SD simulcasts(except WNEO).



They will continue to send out a digital signal that is not HD. Their subchannels, just as they do now will do the HD broadcast. Until they change their actual channels.


In any case there will still be a 480i digitized signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13063528
> 
> 
> I called TW earlier in the week inquiring about another HD box for my house, the rep said that I can get another box added free of charge to my account. He said the EARLIEST that they could get someone out to my house would be at least 3 weeks. I told him I did not even want to do that anyway, and that I will go to a TW store to get the box and install it myself. So I went to the Akron (corner of West Ave. and Brittan Rd.) local store and add another HD box (non DVR) to my account. The rep I got looked frustrated and she really did not give a damn about anything. I told her about the free box that the telephone rep told me about and she was like "No way, you cant get one." I didn't want to argue so I told her to just add a box and I will pay for it. "HD DVR box is $15 addional dollars a month." She said. I said I don't want an HD DVR box, she then told me that HD DVR's are all they have, and they would get more non-DVR's in AT LEAST 4 WEEKS. I was ever so pissed! You would think they would have the proper hardware in stock at all times.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: I think TW underestimated the HD surge very greatly. And their store support reps are asses to you.



Ok, first don't listen to that person. Call TW customer service again and tell them what the first CSR told you and demand that you not be charged. If your told that the rep at the office is correct ask for your account to be turned over to a customer support specialist so they can review your billing. Mine was and I saved all kinds of money.


Now about the non HD DVR box thing. I'd probably say that is correct, they probably will only have HD DVR's available. Still you shouldn't get charged for any additional HD service.


You didn't go to the store in Twinsburg by any chance, did you?


Oh and if that doesn't work send an email to [email protected] . He's in charge of the Akron area, he'd love to hear from you.


----------



## hookbill

This is almost too much. I've thought that when I ran speed tests that my speed was slower then I was with Adelphia's Highest speed internet. I've been paying for Road Runner Turbo for months now.


So what comes in the mail today? Why a letter from TW saying they have "noticed my cable modem needs to be replaced in order to use RR Turbo. They will send it to me UPS.


And to compensate for my lack of complete service they say they will credit me the difference between RR regular and Turbo for the time I've been paying for the more expensive service.


For the record I have a Scientific Atlanta model DPX110. So for all of you ex Adelphia people who paid for their fastest internet and have this modem be prepared for an exchange....or ask for one.


And here's the real good part. You notice in the post above I gave an email address to contact Steve Fry. It's signed by him.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13063528
> 
> 
> I called TW earlier in the week inquiring about another HD box for my house, the rep said that I can get another box added free of charge to my account. He said the EARLIEST that they could get someone out to my house would be at least 3 weeks. I told him I did not even want to do that anyway, and that I will go to a TW store to get the box and install it myself. So I went to the Akron (corner of West Ave. and Brittan Rd.) local store and add another HD box (non DVR) to my account. The rep I got looked frustrated and she really did not give a damn about anything. I told her about the free box that the telephone rep told me about and she was like "No way, you cant get one." I didn't want to argue so I told her to just add a box and I will pay for it. "HD DVR box is $15 addional dollars a month." She said. I said I don't want an HD DVR box, she then told me that HD DVR's are all they have, and they would get more non-DVR's in AT LEAST 4 WEEKS. I was ever so pissed! You would think they would have the proper hardware in stock at all times.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: I think TW underestimated the HD surge very greatly. And their store support reps are asses to you.



About 9 months ago i went to my local TW and ask for a HD box, they told didn't have any and that they were phasing them out and I could only get HD DVR. I ask about a cable card and they said I would have to call and get a serviceman to install it. So that is what I did.


----------



## Smarty-pants

So if you have 3 tvs in your house, then you have to pay $45 per month + tax just for the boxes??? YIKES!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13063528
> 
> 
> I called TW earlier in the week inquiring about another HD box for my house, the rep said that I can get another box added free of charge to my account. He said the EARLIEST that they could get someone out to my house would be at least 3 weeks. I told him I did not even want to do that anyway, and that I will go to a TW store to get the box and install it myself. So I went to the Akron (corner of West Ave. and Brittan Rd.) local store and add another HD box (non DVR) to my account. The rep I got looked frustrated and she really did not give a damn about anything. I told her about the free box that the telephone rep told me about and she was like "No way, you cant get one." I didn't want to argue so I told her to just add a box and I will pay for it. "HD DVR box is $15 addional dollars a month." She said. I said I don't want an HD DVR box, she then told me that HD DVR's are all they have, and they would get more non-DVR's in AT LEAST 4 WEEKS. I was ever so pissed! You would think they would have the proper hardware in stock at all times.
> 
> 
> Bottom line: I think TW underestimated the HD surge very greatly. And their store support reps are asses to you.



Did you get her name or what she looks like? I've had trouble with them before too. The one woman is a real *****. She slammed and threw equipment. I would definately report this employee's actions to the email address posted by hookbill: [email protected] 


Was her name Stacy? by any chance? I heard the same BS when I tried to get a HD-DVR. She said they wouldn't have any new boxes for 8 weeks. I ended up getting an old 8000HD that didn't work. As fir non-DVRs, they had plenty of those, except the old ones were crap.(SA3100 or Pioneer BD-V3510) The newer models may be better(SA4250).


----------



## hookbill

I just had my wife take a look at the TW bill. Sure enough they credited me every months since they switched it back to Road Runner. My cable bill this month is around 23 bucks. I ought to frame that sucker.


Of course I still don't have the new modem yet. Hopefully it will arrive on Monday.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13065300
> 
> 
> So if you have 3 tvs in your house, then you have to pay $45 per month + tax just for the boxes??? YIKES!



No that womans nuts. He'll get it straightened out.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13064851
> 
> 
> For the record I have a Scientific Atlanta model DPX110.



I suspect that the DPX110, being an older modem, might not be DOCSIS 2.0 compatible. The 2.0 spec enables denser modulation formats for more throughput but it requires specific hardware to enable it. If they're switching you to a 2.0 modem that's a good thing.


There's a DOCSIS 3.0 spec out there but I don't think it's been implemented anywhere yet. The 3.0 spec enables channel bonding for additional throughput, but it can be pricey for operators to implement as it could require significant upgrades in their headends.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13065424
> 
> 
> Did you get her name or what she looks like? I've had trouble with them before too. The one woman is a real *****. She slammed and threw equipment. I would definately report this employee's actions to the email address posted by hookbill: [email protected]
> 
> 
> Was her name Stacy? by any chance? I heard the same BS when I tried to get a HD-DVR. She said they wouldn't have any new boxes for 8 weeks. I ended up getting an old 8000HD that didn't work. As fir non-DVRs, they had plenty of those, except the old ones were crap.(SA3100 or Pioneer BD-V3510) The newer models may be better(SA4250).



I couldn't recall her name. She looked like a pretty average woman, maybe in her mid-late 40's. There were two people working. She looked pissed when I walked up to the counter but I played nice with her, she wasn't so nice with me. I felt like canceling and walking out then, but unfortunately TW has me, like most customers, "by the balls" (if you know what I mean) because of the amount of TV's that we have in the house (7) and I don't want to deal with a dish to accommodate that number.


This was the store in Tallmadge/Akron in the Midway plaza off Brittan and West Ave. One of the only ones open on Saturdays (which is like the only time I can get to these damn stores).


Hook,

I have emailed Steve Fry in the past inquiring about the lack of HD channels, and I did not receive a reply.


And it looks like I am going to pay TW more money, as I am considering RR (I am dropping our way overpriced AT&T landline phone service for Vonage, and the DSL, which has treated me great, is bundled with the landline service). Oh, the joys of being a consumer...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13066225
> 
> 
> I couldn't recall her name. She looked like a pretty average woman, maybe in her mid-late 40's. There were two people working. She looked pissed when I walked up to the counter but I played nice with her, she wasn't so nice with me. I felt like canceling and walking out then, but unfortunately TW has me, like most customers, "by the balls" (if you know what I mean) because of the amount of TV's that we have in the house (7) and I don't want to deal with a dish to accommodate that number.
> 
> 
> This was the store in Tallmadge/Akron in the Midway plaza off Brittan and West Ave. One of the only ones open on Saturdays (which is like the only time I can get to these damn stores).



If she had dark hair, that's probably her. Unfortunately that's the closest and only store I know of(right up Tallmadge Ave. from Akron). As far as 7 TVs, WOW







, that would suck on satellite. You'd need 7 boxes and more than one dish. Plus, on top of that, dish is just trouble period. Until anyhting comes out of U-verse, TW is the only real option here. They do have us "by the balls".




> Quote:
> Hook,
> 
> I have emailed Steve Fry in the past inquiring about the lack of HD channels, and I did not receive a reply.
> 
> 
> And it looks like I am going to pay TW more money, as I am considering RR (I am dropping our way overpriced AT&T landline phone service for Vonage, and the DSL, which has treated me great, is bundled with the landline service). Oh, the joys of being a consumer...



I remember an article in the Beacon awhile back about Mr. Fry that was basically an advertisement for Time Warner. One part of the article talked about how Mr Fry "cares about customer service". What a load!!


Even if they don't listen, flood them with complaints. Eventually someone will have to say or do something about it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13066225
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> I have emailed Steve Fry in the past inquiring about the lack of HD channels, and I did not receive a reply.




I didn't get a direct response from him either. However I did get a response from this dude . Don Jensen.


In any case they are wrong and you shouldn't let them charge you for the box. Call customer service, explain what happened. This should be taken care of. Unfortunately this woman may continue to be an idiot that works in a place whre she doesn't understand what the fees are.


----------



## nickdawg

I still want to know how and why they said you can get a box added for free. I have an extra SD box and it costs $7.95 a month.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13066669
> 
> 
> I still want to know how and why they said you can get a box added for free. I have an extra SD box and it costs $7.95 a month.



Wouldn't it be nice if there was a friggin price list on the website. But hey, that would just make too much damn sense now wouldn't it.


I think the other reason they don't post a price list is because prices vary from area to area. So if someone in Texas sees he's paying more then someone in New Mexico, well you can imagine the crap that would go down.


Then again, they charge different prices for gasoline depending on what area you live in.


You know I hate to get political but first it just seems to me that I have never lived in a more crooked state then Ohio. As a matter of fact the more I read about how bills get passed, how laws to finance campaigns are worked around and how the government waste our money so bad it just seems like the average joe just doesn't have a shot in this country anymore. Politicians go on saying about how they care for us while big business feeds their campaigns. Barac Obama had to return some checks that he got in the neighborhood of around 5 grand because they found out they were written by a 2 year old and a 4 year old. Clinton had to return 850g because somebody had found a way to "group" the funding so it didn't appear to come from one source. Then you've got these big shots who can only contribute so much due to campaign money restriction laws so they simply give the money to someone who works for them as a "bonus" and they donate the cash.


Anyway I know that really doesn't have much to do with HD, but since the FCC has their hands in the pot you can bet that cable is working some polititician somewhere.


If anyones interested all that stuff I mentioned is in this months Readers Digest in the "That's Outrageous" area.


I don't believe they charge me for my HD STB. They charge for my cable cards in my HD TiVo. At least I think that's the way it works. I'll have to look at the bill again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13065792
> 
> 
> I suspect that the DPX110, being an older modem, might not be DOCSIS 2.0 compatible. The 2.0 spec enables denser modulation formats for more throughput but it requires specific hardware to enable it. If they're switching you to a 2.0 modem that's a good thing.
> 
> 
> There's a DOCSIS 3.0 spec out there but I don't think it's been implemented anywhere yet. The 3.0 spec enables channel bonding for additional throughput, but it can be pricey for operators to implement as it could require significant upgrades in their headends.



You know I'm beginning to wonder if I need the turbo now that I havn't been getting it anyway. I have Vonage,that works fine. Still I do some other things and I probably should have a fast download for those.


Anyway I justl love that small bill coming in. I can't believe they are keeping their word and doing what they said they will do.


----------



## nickdawg

They do have some line ups and prices at http://www.twcguide.com , the website where there is info about the new channel realignment. Although the prices there look different than my bill. It seems they can just charge whatever the hell they want.


----------



## nosey313

My wife and I have been in our house for about a year. I just realized yesterday that the two cable outlet areas in my living room each have two coaxial outputs. I'm not sure if the previous owner had cable or satellite, but wouldn't the dual outputs mean satellite of some sort? The house is only ten years old, but I don't think this would have been a standard installation back then. How long has their been a need for two cables for two tuners on a DVR? What do you think?


The line of sight issue may not be as bad as I first thought. But, the other concern for getting D* is the necessary installation. If my suspicion is correct, the previous owner may have had satellite, making for an easier install.


----------



## Smarty-pants

nosey313, my guess would be maybe he had satellite that did not offer local channels, so he had one line for the satellite and one for over the air antenna to get his locals.


----------



## nosey313

So if I got D*, do you think both lines would work for the dual tuner DVR?


----------



## paule123

nosey,


If you could connect both lines to the dish, yes it would work for dual tuner DVR.


FYI, DirecTV just released the single-wire-multiswitch to retail, the model number is SWM8 - I've seen it priced from about $189 up to a ripoff price of $399 at Weaknees. This allows you to use a single coax run in your house for the dual tuner DVRs. Only the newer HR20, HR21, H20, H21 are compatible with the SWM, though.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13066793
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if there was a friggin price list on the website. But hey, that would just make too much damn sense now wouldn't it.



This is one reason I always liked Wide Open West. They were the first (perhaps still the only) provider to have a simple calculator on their website to figure out ala-carte and bundled pricing without any ********. And (gasp) you can actually order service ONLINE, schedule an appointment ONLINE, and have the guy show up ON TIME to install it, and NEVER talk to a brain dead CSR in a call center somewhere. (gasp!)


Adelphia/TWC and Comcast are both completely worthless in that department. Their websites are pathetic when it comes to pricing and ordering service.

I always thought the old Adelphia postcards in the mail should have raised a red flag with the FTC because they always showed promo pricing, but never what the service would actually cost after the trial period was over. But apparently the government doesn't give a **** when it comes to false advertising by the cable companies.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13066669
> 
> 
> I still want to know how and why they said you can get a box added for free. I have an extra SD box and it costs $7.95 a month.



I know. I was expecting the rep to say around another 6 dollar charge for another box. Then after talking to his manager, he said I could get one for free. I of course did not argue with that statement







.


I hope nobody thinks I ended up getting the HD DVR box for $15/mo. I indirectly told her hell no and walked out empty handed, but not with an empty attitude.


----------



## stuart628

there is pricing online, go to Products, Digital cable, then pricing and packaging, then fill in what community you are from, then go to rate card, it is all there, and I agree 7.65 per box is CRAZY...I will be glad when Tivo comes out with the USB, it will be 3.10 for cable cards, then 12 for dvr service, but it will be WELL worth it.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/13056365
> 
> 
> I think it is probably your cable. Look at the ends, if there is just one ring, its a mono patch cable, 2 rings mean stereo. I think that's it anyway. Hope this helps.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/13056564
> 
> 
> The exact same thing happened to me. I can almost 100% guarantee that it is the cable. I just went up to Radio Shack and got a short stereo-to-stereo cable for a few bucks and it works like a charm.



Thanks guys. Indeed the issue was with the cable. I was using the "one ringed" mono cable.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13065300
> 
> 
> So if you have 3 tvs in your house, then you have to pay $45 per month + tax just for the boxes??? YIKES!




Hmmm no telling who would fall for such a seductive pitch.....


Pulls out bottomless wallet ...fllip flip flip ....


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13062185
> 
> 
> The problem with amps is that it's garbage in - garbage out. If you are behind a ridge you are receiving multipath which distorts the signal. Amplifiers cannot correct the problem they only amplify the problem. In analog that distortion may be only a faint ghost, but in digital that same distortion means you may not get a lock 24/7. Sure, you may get a pristine picture every now and then, but it's not a reliable signal. Atmospheric changes add to the problem (especially for you in Lake County with WOIO) which brings in distant signals on the same frequency which may mean you get nothing at all, or a pixelated mess.



From the house I was in some years back, the amp generally worked fine, but I know what you mean by amplifying garbage.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13062185
> 
> 
> BTW: If you have the ability I'd suggest putting up a tower to get OTA. If you could raise your antenna above the ridge, you would find that WKBN-DT is as strong as the Cleveland stations:
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT603946.html
> 
> Notice that their signal goes out *into Lake Erie* along the Lake County shore line! It's only the ridge that is blocking the signal.



Noted WKBN's coverage earlier, though I had to opt for a condo upon returning to the area, so the tower is out of the question... I have a rooftop along with an attic for the upstairs & backup running an amp.... the condo Management & board always addresses the problems over to the cable operator, since only a small handful of us are still using the antennas, & luckily a few are still keeping on the upkeep of the antennas that are on a fixed income. Don't know how much of a lift I'd really need, could be a only a few feet though. Likely the ridge is whats hiding the WKBN Signal, though I was surveying Antennaweb, & seems WKBN doesnt appear until well south into Geauga County.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13062185
> 
> 
> Let me guess - this ch 7, was it by any chance was Continental Cablevision the cable company? They were notorious for poor wiring.



Correct & correct!







.. this was in the mid/Late 80's though around when the serious degradtion of my OTA signal (especially the UHF) occoured, as I said before always got a great picture, no problems on all channels, with a smaller antenna until Contenintal/Cable entered the area, thereafter I had to go to a larger antenna & amp/.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13066434
> 
> 
> If she had dark hair, that's probably her. Unfortunately that's the closest and only store I know of(right up Tallmadge Ave. from Akron). As far as 7 TVs, WOW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , that would suck on satellite. You'd need 7 boxes and more than one dish. Plus, on top of that, dish is just trouble period. Until anyhting comes out of U-verse, TW is the only real option here. They do have us "by the balls".



Don't be too intimidated by the 7 TV's. All but one are old tubes, when we get a new TV, we find a new place for the old one. They all still work fine (including an old set from the early 80s), and I don't want to replace them if they ain't broken.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13068548
> 
> 
> there is pricing online, go to Products, Digital cable, then pricing and packaging, then fill in what community you are from, then go to rate card, it is all there, and I agree 7.65 per box is CRAZY...I will be glad when Tivo comes out with the USB, it will be 3.10 for cable cards, then 12 for dvr service, but it will be WELL worth it.



I don't know where you came up with the $3.10 for cable cards. Currently I pay 2 bucks per card but on the price list they sent me a while back it said 2.99 for the first card and 5.25 for the second. And no, that wasn't the price of the two together.


I don't know why I only pay 2 bucks per card but when I had that customer specialist go through my account that's when the cable card price came down. At that time is was 1.99 for the first card and 3.99 for the second.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13070289
> 
> 
> From the house I was in some years back, the amp generally worked fine, but I know what you mean by amplifying garbage.



One of the tricky things about amplifiers is that they can be driven into nonlinear operation on strong channels, causing distortion that can wipe out a digital channel. Those distortions can easily splatter across other frequencies, taking out more than the strong channels that caused the clipping in the first place.


Be especially wary of amps with crummy, intermittent gain pots. I've struggled with many amps from RS that would go absolutely banannas from just touching the gain pot. Getting the pot adjusted to the correct gain was an exercise in futility, and I usually wound up having to settle for a setting that was _almost_ good enough.


----------



## stuart628

copied from time warners website for green area rates





> Quote:
> Green Area
> 
> Prices
> 
> CONTACT US:
> 
> Toll-Free: 1-877-772-2253
> 
> E-Mail: [email protected]
> 
> Website: www.twcneo.com
> 
> Send Correspondence To:
> 
> 5520 Whipple Ave. NW
> 
> North Canton, OH 44720
> 
> Residential Service & Installation Charges
> 
> Monthly Service
> 
> Community Lifeline Service Standard
> 
> Service
> 
> Clinton $12.55 $56.99
> 
> Coventry Twp. $12.55 $56.99
> 
> Franklin Twp. $14.82 $56.99
> 
> Green $12.55 $56.99
> 
> New Franklin $12.55 $56.99
> 
> Installation Charges & Other Fees
> 
> New Installation ............................................$44.95
> 
> Reconnection of Service ..............................$29.95
> 
> Additional Outlet (Same trip) ........................$19.95
> 
> Additional Outlet (Extra trip) ..........................$29.95
> 
> Upgrade/Downgrade ......................................$2.00
> 
> High-Speed Internet Installation ....................$99.00
> 
> Road Runner Wireless ..................................$29.95
> 
> Late Fee .........................................................$4. 95
> 
> Hourly Service Charge ............................$29.95/hr.
> 
> Equipment
> 
> Digital or HDTV Terminal .....................$7.65/month
> 
> Standard Converter or Home Terminal ...$.30/month
> 
> Dual Tuner ...........................................$7.65/month
> 
> Cable Card ..........................................$3.10/month
> 
> Remote Control .....................................$.31/month
> 
> NOTE: ALL APPLICABLE RATES ARE
> 
> SUBJECT TO FRANCHISE FEES.
> 
> Sales tax is charged on all equipment. All rates are subject to
> 
> change. Not all services are available in all areas.
> 
> Green Area


----------



## hookbill

Here's what I got for my area:


DIGITAL

CABLE

ADVANCED

SERVICES

HIGH-SPEED

ONLINE

Residential Service & Installation Charges

Monthly Service

Broadcast Basic.................................................. $9.00

Expanded Basic................................................. $41.50

Classic Cable (Broadcast Basic and Expanded Basic)........ $50.50

Broadcast/Classic Cable Additional Outlet....No Charge

Digital Plus (available only with Digital Basic)................... $10.00

Installation Charges

Installation of Unwired Homes...........................$44.95

Installation of Unwired Homes

(underground)......................... Hourly charge plus materials

Installation of Pre-wired Homes.........................$29.95

Installation of additional outlet (at time of initial install).$19.95

Installation of additional outlet (separate trip)...........$29.95

Additional Digital Outlet Service Charge..............$3.00

Downgrade to Broadcast...................................$25.00

Relocate Service for inside outlet......................$29.95

Transfer Service................................................$29.9 5

Transfer Service (unwired).....................................$39.95

Non-pay Reconnect...........................................$29.95

Standard Service Call..................................No Charge

Trip Charge...................................................... ..$25.00

Equipment

Digital Equipment.................................................$7 .95

HDTV Converter.................................................$7 .95

Digital Video Recorder Converter........................$7.95

Suburban Cleveland 3

Valuepaks

Bronzepak (Digital Basic)...................................$61.50

Silverpak (Digital Basic and 1 Multi-Channel

Premium Service)...............................................$71.5 0

Goldpak (Digital Basic, Digital Plus and 2

Multi-Channel Premium Services).......................$81.50

Ultimatepak (Digital Basic, Digital Plus and 4

Multi-Channel Premium Services).......................$96.50

Advantagepaks

Classic Advantagepak (Classic Cable and High-Speed

Internet Service).................................................$93 .45

Bronze Advantagepak (Digital Basic and

High-Speed Internet Service)..............................$94.45

Silver Advantagepak (Digital Basic,

1 Multi-Channel Premium Service and

High-Speed Internet Service)............................$104.45

Gold Advantagepak (Digital Basic, Digital Plus,

2 Multi-Channel Premium Services and

High-Speed Internet Service)............................$114.45

Ultimate Advantagepak (Digital Basic, Digital Plus,

4 Multi-Channel Premium Services and

High-Speed Internet Service)............................$124.00

Add Road Runner Turbo to any Advantagepak......$9.95

Road Runner High Speed Online

Technician Installation of High-Speed Internet

Service..................................................... ........... $99.00

Overnight Charge, High-Speed Internet Service

Self Installation Kit............................................... $10.00

Modem Lease Fee................................................ $3.00

Road Runner High Speed On Line Standard

with leased Cable Modem.................................... $45.95

Road Runner High Speed On Line Standard

with Customer-owned approved

Cable Modem...................................................... $42.95

Road Runner Turbo (additional).............................. $9.95

Road Runner High Speed On Line (Formerly Basic HSI)

with leased Cable Modem................................... $27.95

Road Runner High Speed On Line (Formerly Basic HSI)

with Customer-owned approved

Cable Modem...................................................... $24.95

PREMIUM SERVICES

...........................................................$ 15.95

.........................................$15.95

............................................................ $15.95

............................................................ $15.95

Playboy TV.........................................................$ 19.95

Premium On Demand (May not be available in all

areas and requires premium subscription)..............Free

iN DEMAND Pay-Per-View

iN DEMAND Movies (per movie).................. variable

iN DEMAND Events (per event)................... variable

Seasonal Sports Packages........................... variable

Adult PPV..................................................... variable

International Channels

TV Russia...................................................... $15.00

CCTV4....................................................... ... $10.00

TV Asia........................................................ . $10.00

TV Japan....................................................... $25.00

TV5MONDE (French).................................... $10.00

The Filipino Channel...................................... $10.00

RAI International (Italian)................................ $10.00

ART American (Arabic) ................................. $10.00

Spanish Package

TV Español.................................................... .. $8.00

Advanced Video Services

HD Plus........................................................ ... $5.00

DVR Digital Video Receiver/

Recorder Services........................................... $4.95

Other Charges

Returned Check Fee......................................$25.00

Late Payment Fee............................................$3.00

Expanded Basic service is only available with

subscription to Broadcast Basic service.

Equipment required for Digital and High-Speed Internet

services. Equipment costs are not included above.

Applicable taxes and fees not included. Not all services

are available in all areas. Prices subject to change.

TM and © Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.

(s07)


Notice no price for cable card. But I do stand corrected, there is some sort of a price list.


----------



## nickdawg

PLEASE email the WOIO engineer and tell them to stop forcing the Grammys into SD for school closings. [email protected]


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13073746
> 
> 
> PLEASE email the WOIO engineer and tell them to stop forcing the Grammys into SD for school closings. [email protected]



Might as well spit in the wind my friend. As annoying as it is they are not going to change the way they do that.


WEWS is just so cool at this. Hopefully others will pick up on how to do it. But in the meantime, your stuck.


And as history has shown when it comes to "change" WOIO is the last one to do that.


Still I'll send him an email.


----------



## stuart628

they need to make a price standard, but I am not complaining as I come out cheaper then you in most areas


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13073746
> 
> 
> PLEASE email the WOIO engineer and tell them to stop forcing the Grammys into SD for school closings. [email protected]



Email sent. WOIO pretty much destroyed the Grammys with that crap. I'd say it was what, at least 15 minutes of SD during the 9:00 hour, and another 15 minutes during the 10:00 hour?


CBS lost me to HDNet - they have the Foo Fighters in glorious HD over there.


----------



## nickdawg

I also sent an email. No response, but they did temporarily go back to HD. They are so dumb. WOIO forces to SD during performances and shows HD when people are talking. What an ass backwards channel!









----------------------------------------------------------------------

-WKYC had a SD "Most Outrageous Moments" with a HD graphic on the bottom.

-WEWS has that godawful show "Brothers and Sisters" in HD with a HD graphic.

-WJW has that HD graphic on crack with text and two crawls.

-WOIO/WUAB force SD, even on their own newscast. Still stuck in 1985!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13074429
> 
> 
> CBS lost me to HDNet - they have the Foo Fighters in glorious HD over there.



Wow food fighting in HD! I wish I would have known I'll bet that was cool. Real pies, veggies, and stuff. I'm surprised it wasn't on the Food Channel HD.


Oh...you said Foo Fighters....the rock band.


Nevermind










Actually I haven't heard any of their stuff in years because I kind of stopped listening to new music but I know who they are and I remember they were a pretty good band. But I wouldn't recognize anything they have done if it was after 1999.


I guess they are kind of an "old" band now. Specially since I know who they are.


Any of you geezers out there want to hear something really interesting? Jack Bruce and Robin Trower have a new CD out called Seven Moons. If you liked Creem from the 60's you gotta check this out. Yeah, Trower still has that Hendrix style but it mixes real well in this album.


Off topic, I know but since regular radio doesn't play this music somehow you gotta spread the word.


----------



## HD MM

People actually watched the Grammy's last night???


HDNet Movies had me engaged for 4 hours last night for the premier HD showing of Laurence of Arabia!










BTW, After reading the last 2 pages of complaints about TW and cable, I am so happy to be fortunate enough in having the option to go with Satellite. I really couldn't be happier with D* at this point....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13067329
> 
> 
> My wife and I have been in our house for about a year. *I just realized yesterday that the two cable outlet areas in my living room each have two coaxial outputs. I'm not sure if the previous owner had cable or satellite, but wouldn't the dual outputs mean satellite of some sort?* The house is only ten years old, but I don't think this would have been a standard installation back then. How long has their been a need for two cables for two tuners on a DVR? What do you think?
> 
> 
> The line of sight issue may not be as bad as I first thought. *But, the other concern for getting D* is the necessary installation. If my suspicion is correct, the previous owner may have had satellite, making for an easier install.*



A good way to find out is to check your roof of any evidence of a satellite being mounted in the past. Typically, once a satellite is removed, a mounting bracket is usually left behind on the roof. A few installers told me that it isn't recommended to remove this bracket after a satellite is taken down because the bracket is wedged below the roof shingles in the original install and removing it could result in water getting below the shingles and described it as a how a "new wound would be opened".


I have an old mounting bracket still on the roof from E* when I was a sub a while ago. When I canceled and went with D*, they chose to use a new location and their own mounting bracket.


Also, I wouldn't resist attempting a satellite install based on whether you think your house is already setup for satellite or not. It's not a difficult task to run a new or separate cable to any desired room, especially on the first floor and especially if you have a crawl space or basement. Besides, the installers job is to give you access to whichever rooms you wish to hook up. Leave the creativeness to the experts. Every D* tech that has been to my house has done an excellent job install job..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13067329
> 
> 
> My wife and I have been in our house for about a year. I just realized yesterday that the two cable outlet areas in my living room each have two coaxial outputs. I'm not sure if the previous owner had cable or satellite, but wouldn't the dual outputs mean satellite of some sort? The house is only ten years old, but I don't think this would have been a standard installation back then. How long has their been a need for two cables for two tuners on a DVR? What do you think?
> 
> 
> The line of sight issue may not be as bad as I first thought. But, the other concern for getting D* is the necessary installation. If my suspicion is correct, the previous owner may have had satellite, making for an easier install.



I know exactly what this was. Primestar. Anybody remember?


They got bought out by D* and their dish, which was pretty big compared to D*'s had two inputs from the dish to the box.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13076235
> 
> 
> I know exactly what this was. Primestar. Anybody remember?
> 
> 
> They got bought out by D* and their dish, which was pretty big compared to D*'s had two inputs from the dish to the box.



Not necessarily. Both D* and E* have dual tuner DVR's as well. Both require 2 cable lines.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13076329
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Both D* and E* have dual tuner DVR's as well. Both require 2 cable lines.



True, but didn't you have to run a splitter from the outside of your house to support those lines? PrimeStar required no splitter. Of course PrimeStar didn't have a DVR either.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

Hook:

I didn't see anyone respond as to how cable sends analog and digital down the same cable. For Time Warner, our CH 21 signal gets fibered analog video/audio to a hub where it gets converted to digital on one of the QAM channels. That channel is downconverted back to channel 3 NTSC. On A TWC STB when you dial up Channel 3 it remaps to the SD QAM channel. If you plug the cable directly into an analog NTSC only TV it uses the channel 3 RF signal.

I don't know why they don't keep it analog for channel 3, I'm sure it has to do with their headend layout, but it creates an interesting scenario for me at work. I watch 21 off an antenna in my office. In the lobby area outside my office is an analog TV direct connected to TWC. The up/down conversion creates such a delay I can watch something at my desk, get up and walk out to the lobby TV and see it again.


----------



## paule123

Speaking of school closings ...



It's a bright, sunny day today with a dusting of snow. Did we close all the schools today because it's 10 degrees outside?







Seems to me most of the kids today take a heated school bus, or get driven to school in their parents (or their own) cars.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13078608
> 
> 
> Speaking of school closings ...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bright, sunny day today with a dusting of snow. Did we close all the schools today because it's 10 degrees outside?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to me most of the kids today take a heated school bus, or get driven to school in their parents (or their own) cars.



Yup, too cold for "school". And where are all the kids? Outside SLEDDING in the metroparks!


----------



## TV21CHIEF

When I used to walk to school 10 miles uphill - both ways - I got frostbite and lost 2 fingers. AND I LIKED IT!!!


----------



## jtscherne

Well, it was pretty nasty this morning on the roads and I was quite frankly happy that I didn't have to deal with school buses, crossing guards, etc.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13078608
> 
> 
> Speaking of school closings ...
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bright, sunny day today with a dusting of snow. Did we close all the schools today because it's 10 degrees outside?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to me most of the kids today take a heated school bus, or get driven to school in their parents (or their own) cars.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13078725
> 
> 
> Well, it was pretty nasty this morning on the roads and I was quite frankly happy that I didn't have to deal with school buses, crossing guards, etc.



I agree. The East Side (snow belt) definitely got it worse than the rest as usual. Driving into work this morning on 271S it was like night and day once I got South of the Harvard Exit. Up until Harvard everyone was going 20mph on the snow covered highway. After Harvard, there was barely a dusting on the roads. What was the excuse for the rest of NE Ohio? Cold? pft....


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13078725
> 
> 
> Well, it was pretty nasty this morning on the roads and I was quite frankly happy that I didn't have to deal with school buses, crossing guards, etc.



Don't get me started on what a lousy job ODOT does with I-271 over here. The slightest bit of snow and it turns into a skating rink. There's no excuse for it. My rule now is if I see snow falling outside, NEVER take 271. The side streets always get me home quicker and more safely.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Small children can not withstand the cold temperatures when exposed to them at the bus stop or even for those that have to walk to school.

There are plenty of us who live in nice neighborhoods where the stay-at-home mommy drives all the kids to school everyday in the minivan or SUV, but we easily forget about those kids less fortunate that have to walk to school. Plenty of school systems now have the stupid-ass rule of if you live within a mile radius of the school, then you have to walk or get a ride... no bus. So, believe it or not, there are kids that have to walk about a mile to school everyday.

Temps this morning basically fluctuating between -5% to +7% depending on the area in NE Ohio, and that does not include windchill. I wouldn't want my child exposed to those conditions.

I agree that education should be first prioity for our children, but not at the sacrifice of their health.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13079220
> 
> 
> Small children can not withstand the cold temperatures when exposed to them at the bus stop or even for those that have to walk to school.
> 
> There are plenty of us who live in nice neighborhoods where the stay-at-home mommy drives all the kids to school everyday in the minivan or SUV, but we easily forget about those kids less fortunate that have to walk to school. Plenty of school systems now have the stupid-ass rule of if you live within a mile radius of the school, then you have to walk or get a ride... no bus. So, believe it or not, there are kids that have to walk about a mile to school everyday.
> 
> Temps this morning basically fluctuating between -5% to +7% depending on the area in NE Ohio, and that does not include windchill. I wouldn't want my child exposed to those conditions.
> 
> I agree that education should be first prioity for our children, but not at the sacrifice of their health.



When I was in school I walked to school every day. Nobody drove me. When I had a bike I rode it. I never got out of school because of silly reasons like "oh, it's too cold" or "oh we've got two inches of snow on the ground."


I grew up in Los Angeles California.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13080643
> 
> 
> When I was in school I walked to school every day. Nobody drove me. When I had a bike I rode it. I never got out of school because of silly reasons like "oh, it's too cold" or "oh we've got two inches of snow on the ground."
> 
> 
> I grew up in Los Angeles California.



LOL
























Good one Hook!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13078055
> 
> 
> Hook:
> 
> I didn't see anyone respond as to how cable sends analog and digital down the same cable. For Time Warner, our CH 21 signal gets fibered analog video/audio to a hub where it gets converted to digital on one of the QAM channels. That channel is downconverted back to channel 3 NTSC. On A TWC STB when you dial up Channel 3 it remaps to the SD QAM channel. If you plug the cable directly into an analog NTSC only TV it uses the channel 3 RF signal.
> 
> I don't know why they don't keep it analog for channel 3, I'm sure it has to do with their headend layout, but it creates an interesting scenario for me at work. I watch 21 off an antenna in my office. In the lobby area outside my office is an analog TV direct connected to TWC. The up/down conversion creates such a delay I can watch something at my desk, get up and walk out to the lobby TV and see it again.




OK. So you send out an analog signal along a fiber cable to a hub. Then this signal is converted to a digital signal for STB's and stays analog for direct wall connected televisions. All of this makes perfect sense to even a non engineering person like me. Also we who have STB's can probably see your analog channel as well (that's the way it works with the Cleveland stations). And I know about the delay between the digital and the analog signal. I've heard that in my house as well.


Easy to understand. Now what happens when you stop your analog broadcast over the air? Will you continue to do it as you are doing it now? I mean this would seem like the logical answer. And it would explain how everything would continue to work as it does now.


I always had the idea that cable stations got their feed OTA. I didn't realize local channels pumped the signal in via fiber optic cable. It does explain why the "digital" picture isn't quite what I would expect it to be since in fact it is upgraded analog.


Anyway thanks for the explanation.


One other question. How does the cable company receive the HD signal?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13080643
> 
> 
> When I was in school I walked to school every day. Nobody drove me. When I had a bike I rode it. I never got out of school because of silly reasons like "oh, it's too cold" or "oh we've got two inches of snow on the ground."
> 
> 
> I grew up in Los Angeles California.



Oh wait, don't tell me you're one of those guys that actually tries to surf on Lake Erie are you?!?!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13080810
> 
> 
> Oh wait, don't tell me you're one of those guys that actually tries to surf on Lake Erie are you?!?!



When I was a kid we heard about that. We thought that it was insane, but since I've been out here I've seen the waves and they are rideable. I haven't tried it but then again I don't go anywhere in public with my shirt off anymore.










And actually to be more specific, I grew up in Hawthorne, California. The home of The Beach Boys. I went to the same high school but they were much older then I was so I never knew them.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13080901
> 
> 
> When I was a kid we heard about that. We thought that it was insane, but since I've been out here I've seen the waves and they are rideable. I haven't tried it but then again I don't go anywhere in public with my shirt off anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And actually to be more specific, I grew up in Hawthorne, California. The home of The Beach Boys. I went to the same high school but they were much older then I was so I never knew them.



And I grew up in Geauga County, where school was RARELY cancelled due to snow/cold and we had to shovel our roofs!


Of course, regardless of living in *snow central* of NEO, pops was too cheap to buy a snow thrower/blower. His response: "Sounds like -YOU- need a snow blower, I have three kids and three shovels".


----------



## nickdawg

If the station is sending its SD feed directly to cable by fiber, then why not send a true digital feed instead of analog? Why does cable do that hideous "digitized" channel thing instead of using a real digital feed? Many of the "digitized" channels, especially the local SD, look horrible. WBNX has ghosting and lines through the picture.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13081193
> 
> 
> If the station is sending its SD feed directly to cable by fiber, then why not send a true digital feed instead of analog? Why does cable do that hideous "digitized" channel thing instead of using a real digital feed? Many of the "digitized" channels, especially the local SD, look horrible. WBNX has ghosting and lines through the picture.



Because those people you like so much, you know, the ones who don't have an STB wouldn't be able to get a signal. I'm sure that answer makes you real happy.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13081326
> 
> 
> Because those people you like so much, you know, the ones who don't have an STB wouldn't be able to get a signal. I'm sure that answer makes you real happy.



No, I meant have a digital feed straight from the network. Show that true digital feed for us who have STBs. Downcovnert the DIGITAL feed to ANALOG instead for those non-STB @$$es. In the "digital age" it doesn't make sense to upconvert analog signals.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13080769
> 
> 
> OK. So you send out an analog signal along a fiber cable to a hub. Then this signal is converted to a digital signal for STB's and stays analog for direct wall connected televisions. All of this makes perfect sense to even a non engineering person like me. Also we who have STB's can probably see your analog channel as well (that's the way it works with the Cleveland stations). And I know about the delay between the digital and the analog signal. I've heard that in my house as well.
> 
> 
> Easy to understand. Now what happens when you stop your analog broadcast over the air? Will you continue to do it as you are doing it now? I mean this would seem like the logical answer. And it would explain how everything would continue to work as it does now.
> 
> 
> I always had the idea that cable stations got their feed OTA. I didn't realize local channels pumped the signal in via fiber optic cable. It does explain why the "digital" picture isn't quite what I would expect it to be since in fact it is upgraded analog.
> 
> 
> Anyway thanks for the explanation.
> 
> 
> One other question. How does the cable company receive the HD signal?



Cable cos can get broadcasters signals either OTA or fiber and sometimes microwave. The fiber/microwave can be digital and is usually HD and SD signals combined together in a ASI bitstream. The cable companies then pull out the individual channels and remodulate to QAM at the digital level. WKBN feeds Armstrong Cable and TWC with 4 channels. WKBN-HD, WKBN-SD, FOX-HD, and FOX-SD.

So after the analog shutoff WKBN viewers will still get an SD feed. The other ways for cable companies to get 4x3 SD if the station doesn't provide it is to center cut and downconvert (cuts off some of the bugs and graphics on the edges - a plus for some) or they can just "postage stamp" the 16x9 video to 4x3. WKBN is very fortunate with their location. It sits on a corner where Armstrong and TWC meet. There's a splice inside the building tying the 2 cable companies together. Of course all of these scenarios vary by station & cable company. How WFMJ is going to handle analog shutoff is a high priority for me this year, but at least TWC in our market will have an analog SD feed when we shut that transmitter off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13081639
> 
> 
> No, I meant have a digital feed straight from the network. Show that true digital feed for us who have STBs. Downcovnert the DIGITAL feed to ANALOG instead for those non-STB @$$es. In the "digital age" it doesn't make sense to upconvert analog signals.



I understood exactly what you meant. And I told you the reason why. Yes, you are right preferably that would make more sense for you and I. But I have no idea how many customers TW has that don't have an STB. And as TV21CHIEF explains it that is how they will continue to deliver an analog signal to those who don't have an STB.


I'm in total agreement with you and as I said before I see this as a missed opportunity for TW. They could give out the STB's and deliver the digital stations for a few years and then start charging for them.


But now that I see how the signal is delivered I understand why they won't force them to by a box. And yes, you and I will suffer with an inferior picture on our local digital channels.


So watch the HD channel and put up with the bars on the side. That's the only cable solution.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13081751
> 
> 
> So after the analog shutoff WKBN viewers will still get an SD feed. *The other ways for cable companies to get 4x3 SD if the station doesn't provide it is to center cut and downconvert (cuts off some of the bugs and graphics on the edges - a plus for some) or they can just "postage stamp" the 16x9 video to 4x3.*




Wow, that sounds like it would look like complete garbage.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13081821
> 
> 
> Wow, that sounds like it would look like complete garbage.



It should and I hope it does. MY HD bandwidth should NOT be robbed to keep a 4:3 simulcast. Get a converter box and either letterbox or center cut yourself. I hope Cleveland stations do not plan on doing this. Currently no one has a SD digital subchannel showing the main network feed.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13078055
> 
> 
> That channel is downconverted back to channel 3 NTSC. On A TWC STB when you dial up Channel 3 it remaps to the SD QAM channel. If you plug the cable directly into an analog NTSC only TV it uses the channel 3 RF signal.
> 
> I don't know why they don't keep it analog for channel 3



I'm guessing this is to provide a more consistent (better) PQ for people who have STB's. When TWC started this practice, I noticed that the PQ of the digitized locals through my box was a bit sharper than the analog equivalent on the same set. Recent unscientific tests have shown the same...


----------



## nataslgl

*Digital Transition Luncheon:*


I am a member of the local NATAS chapter, and we are having a luncheon next Tuesday, February 19 at the Downtown Hilton Garden Inn about the transition to digital and what it means for broadcasters and cable systems.


The event is open to the public, and you can even attend even if you don't want lunch. The luncheon events will take place simultaneously in Cleveland, Toledo and Indianapolis, and are open to the public.


In Cleveland, it'll be held at the downtown Hilton Garden Inn, and will feature speakers Steve Hyvonen, Berry Pinney and Time Warner Cable's Bill Jasso. Cleveland Plain Dealer columnist Tom Feran will moderate.


Complete information is available at the chapter website: nataslgl.org


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nataslgl* /forum/post/13089654
> 
> *Digital Transition Luncheon:*
> 
> 
> I am a member of the local NATAS chapter, and we are having a luncheon next Tuesday, February 19 at the Downtown Hilton Garden Inn about the transition to digital and what it means for broadcasters and cable systems.
> 
> 
> The event is open to the public, and you can even attend even if you don't want lunch. The luncheon events will take place simultaneously in Cleveland, Toledo and Indianapolis, and are open to the public.
> 
> 
> In Cleveland, it'll be held at the downtown Hilton Garden Inn, and will feature speakers Steve Hyvonen, Berry Pinney and Time Warner Cable's Bill Jasso. Cleveland Plain Dealer columnist Tom Feran will moderate.
> 
> 
> Complete information is available at the chapter website: nataslgl.org



Thank you. We saw the first message. I have no doubt that you are just reminding us since it appears to be a non profit organization but duplicate posting in this forum may be considered spamming.


Just an fyi.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> As far as 7 TVs, WOW, that would suck on satellite. You'd need 7 boxes and more than one dish.



Not necessarily, Dish Network has dual tuner boxes (including several HD boxes) that allows for viewing 2 different channels from one box at the same time. Additionally they employ special splitters so these dual tuner boxes only need one coax run to the dish per box. Finally they use 4-output multiswitches so that 4 dual tuner boxes can be fed from one dish. That means you can have up to 8 TV's connected to one dish.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13083811
> 
> 
> It should and I hope it does. MY HD bandwidth should NOT be robbed to keep a 4:3 simulcast. Get a converter box and either letterbox or center cut yourself. I hope Cleveland stations do not plan on doing this. Currently no one has a SD digital subchannel showing the main network feed.



Reread TV21Chief's post. They are using fiber optic lines to feed the cable systems the SD (as well as HD feeds). That is a closed-circuit! The OTA signal does not contain the SD version of the channel (at least not here in the Cleveland or Youngstown markets). O.K. PBS does send an SD subchannel, but that's because PBS HD is a totally separate programming schedule.


Several stations do use subchannels, but they contain different programming, not just the SD version of the main HD program stream.


----------



## dleising

 http://www.twcguide.com/media/change-flyer.pdf 


Above is the new lineup for channels 100+ on TW. It includes the additions of the new HD channels that we already know about. All HD channels will now be in the 400 channel range rather than 500.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13092479
> 
> http://www.twcguide.com/media/change-flyer.pdf
> 
> 
> Above is the new lineup for channels 100+ on TW. It includes the additions of the new HD channels that we already know about. All HD channels will now be in the 400 channel range rather than 500.




That's for your area. That's not for everyone.


Also why are they still broadcasting (in my area) 2 HD channels of TBS?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Someone in another thread has stated, wether old news or new news I don't know, that Sony has purchased or owns 75% of Time Warner.

Is this true????


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13092547
> 
> 
> That's for your area. That's not for everyone.
> 
> 
> Also why are they still broadcasting (in my area) 2 HD channels of TBS?



That's for EVERYONE'S area. They are standardizing our line ups. Currently my HD is in the 500s and yours is 700s. According to that list, HD will be in the 400s. This should be interesting...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out the navigaton on the left side of http://www.twcguide.com . Notice the answers on demand links. They link to PDFs showing the PASSPORT menu system and DVR screens. I thought they were phasing out PASSPORT, but they are now advertising it on their NEW line up site. Hmmm.


----------



## nickdawg

Waht's going on with "American Idol" right now?? Color bars for three minutes followed by freezing/pixelation.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13093468
> 
> 
> Waht's going on with "American Idol" right now?? Color bars for three minutes followed by freezing/pixelation.



CRAP! Totally forgot it was on. Thanks for reminding me







. Turned it on and looks great here in Canton via QAM on TW.


----------



## nickdawg

Looks great on analog from TW in Akron.


----------



## stuart628

looks good so far, now if only we can get mapdown options that would be terrific!!! that way I dont have to turn to channel whatever for FoxHD, I can just turn to channel 8 and it comes in!


----------



## jtscherne

I'm having a D* problem tonight, but things seem to be coming back slowly.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nataslgl* /forum/post/13089654
> 
> *Digital Transition Luncheon:*
> 
> 
> The event is open to the public, and you can even attend even if you don't want lunch.



Can you attend for free if you're not having lunch? Clarification please!


----------



## nataslgl

Yes, you can attend without having the lunch. Those tickets are $10 each. Complete info is on the chapter website at: nataslgl.org


----------



## nataslgl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13090342
> 
> 
> Thank you. We saw the first message. I have no doubt that you are just reminding us since it appears to be a non profit organization but duplicate posting in this forum may be considered spamming.
> 
> 
> Just an fyi.



Sorry about that. I thought my first post was lost, as someone posted that the server went down. I just thought that this would be of interest to those on this board. Especailly with Bill Jasso speaking at the event and taking questions. Plus Chief Engineer from WEWS, Berry Pinney will be there as well. Might be a good chance to finally get some real answers to all the questions I see on here about digital, cable and broadcasting. I meant no harm...and yes we are a non-profit.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13092479
> 
> http://www.twcguide.com/media/change-flyer.pdf
> 
> 
> Above is the new lineup for channels 100+ on TW. It includes the additions of the new HD channels that we already know about. All HD channels will now be in the 400 channel range rather than 500.



So from this list, I count 4 new TW HD additions from my List: A&E- HD, HGTV- HD, Food- HD and HBO- West HD. Are the "live" dates still TBD, or are these new HD channels now officially up and running for NE Ohio TW customers?


And one more thing, what the hell is "Cavaliers HD"??? I assume they mean they just broadcast the HD Cav's games on a dedicated channel instead of carrying FSN-OH HD full time, similar to D*. I just had to laugh as TW almost makes it seem like they carry some exclusive channel that doesn't really exist....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13092644
> 
> 
> Someone in another thread has stated, whether old news or new news I don't know, that Sony has purchased or owns 75% of Time Warner.
> 
> Is this true????



I think you're confused with this story: story. 


From that article: "It appears Sony has reportedly reached an agreement to purchase MGM after Time Warner withdrew their bid to purchase MGM."


^Edit. This is an old story from 2004! I haven't heard of any other significant links between Sony and TW , except for Warner's recent announcement to support Blu-Ray in the HDM format war...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13097159
> 
> 
> I think you're confused with this story: story.
> 
> 
> From that article: "It appears Sony has reportedly reached an agreement to purchase MGM after Time Warner withdrew their bid to purchase MGM."
> 
> 
> ^Edit. This is an old story from 2004! I haven't heard of any other significant links between Sony and TW , except for Warner's recent announcement to support Blu-Ray in the HDM format war...



Your edit was added just as I was getting ready to post. I know for a fact that Sony purchased MGM over 10 years ago. When I last lived in California I lived in Culver City which is where MGM is located. After Sony purchased it they took down the huge MGM sign and put up SONY STUDIOS. I also can set the time frame a bit further back because they had huge posters of TV shows that they made there and I distinctly remember seeing a poster for "Mad About You" and that was still a hit so it's probably even more years then that.


I've got some fond memories of MGM when I was a child. We would ride our bikes from Hawthorne, which was about 10 miles away and we found a way to sneak into the area where the Hogans Hero's set was (the prison camp yard). The trap door in the yard could be opened but of course there was nothing but solid ground under it. It was just kind of cool to sneak in there.


----------



## hershsa

I just received a call from time warner yesterday about the regular HD box i was getting this saturday. Well they are out of those but did offer me the HD-DVR box @ $7 a month with the first month free. They said it would be at least 4 weeks before I would get a regular box.


On another note



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13059241
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone cares about having a STB, it's the fact that TW charges an outrageous fee every month to use the boxes that are sometimes outdated even, and most of the time problematic... and heaven forbid if something should happen to it, then they charge the customer 300% what the box is worth brand new.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd turn into a tickled-fancy-pants-boy if I could get basic digital cable with all the locals in HD with a STB for $20 a month. We all know THAT will NEVER happen.



Actually if you were just setup for analog broadcast, like my mom was, you are being charged more than that of a person with digital cable and the STB. I called and had them switch her to digital cable and the box and she now has more channels and a cheaper bill by $10.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13098247
> 
> 
> I just received a call from time warner yesterday about the regular HD box i was getting this saturday. Well they are out of those but did offer me the HD-DVR box @ $7 a month with the first month free. They said it would be at least 4 weeks before I would get a regular box.
> 
> 
> On another note
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually if you were just setup for analog broadcast, like my mom was, you are being charged more than that of a person with digital cable and the STB. I called and had them switch her to digital cable and the box and she now has more channels and a cheaper bill by $10.



I pay less than $13/month... no box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13099017
> 
> 
> I pay less than $13/month... no box.



You're one of *THOSE* people!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13099189
> 
> 
> You're one of *THOSE* people!



I get all the locals and then some in analog. I get all the locals in HD and several other channels in digital via QAM. When the HD ever breaks up, I just switch over to analog.


My "must watch" list is very short. Only about 3-4 tv shows that I schedule for watching. The kids watch a lot of children's programming on PBS.

Lifeline Basic gives me everything I need right now. I enjoy watching my dvds in my theater much more than most of the CRAP on tv right now.


If I had 100 more channels, then I'm sure I'd find a few more things to watch, but I don't mind missing out since it would cost me $50-$90+ more every month to get that.

If they'd stop ripping everyone off and just give expanded digital cable for about $30/month then I'd go for it. However, with the circumstances the way they are, there's no way in hell I'm gonna upgrade just to make you happy and just to make TWs pockets deeper than what they already are.

If you don't like it, you can stick it up your arse and stop it with a cork.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13093819
> 
> 
> I'm having a D* problem tonight, but things seem to be coming back slowly.



It was probably the ice. My D* signal went flaky then out completely about the same time last night. I went outside with my 10 foot stick and tapped the dish to knock the ice off and the signal came right back.


I've seen some spray sold on the internet that coats the dish (with silicone I guess) supposedly keeps the ice from sticking. I also vaguely remember seeing dish heaters somewhere. I think I've also seen a fabric cover type deal to keep the dish clean.


----------



## stuart628

watch taping on the dish, with the KA signal, it just takes a slight adjustment and your Alignment could go out of wack! the KA(99, and 103 satellites) signal is ALOT more touchy then the old KU (101, 110, and 119)


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13099606
> 
> 
> It was probably the ice. My D* signal went flaky then out completely about the same time last night. I went outside with my 10 foot stick and tapped the dish to knock the ice off and the signal came right back.
> 
> 
> I've seen some spray sold on the internet that coats the dish (with silicone I guess) supposedly keeps the ice from sticking. I also vaguely remember seeing dish heaters somewhere. I think I've also seen a fabric cover type deal to keep the dish clean.



LOL. My D* signal went out last night too! My first thought was to run outside with my extension deck broom and knock the ice off, but then I started thinking about how I might whack it out of alignment, so I came back inside. My neighbors probably thought I was nuts, standing on my deck railing and reaching towards the roof with a broom in the freezing rain!







This type of signal fade is very unusual for me, but then again, so has been the weather the last few weeks....


By the looks of it last night, 2 of my LNB's had a massive frozen glob of ice covering them! Hopefully they thawed out today. My wife was pissed that she couldn't see the Westminster on USA-HD last night.....


----------



## clevemkt

By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 2/12/2008 9:34:00 AM



Washington - Federal Communications Commission chairman Kevin Martin might be retreating from his plan dealing with the carriage of local TV signals by satellite carriers DirecTV and Dish Network in early 2009 after the digital TV transition.

Martin's new approach was contained in prepared House testimony he is planning to deliver Wednesday before the Telecommunications and the Internet Subcommittee. A copy of Martin's testimony was obtained by Multichannel News on Tuesday.

Last Friday, Martin described his plan as a strict non-discrimination rule, which would ban DirecTV and EchoStar from carrying some local TV stations in high-definition but not others in HD.

The two satellite giants could depart from this standard, he said, but only with an FCC waiver based upon a showing of limited channel capacity. Martin's rule would take effect after the national shut off of analog TV signals on Feb. 17, 2009.

In his House testimony, Martin made no mention of his HD-parity proposal. Instead, he simply referred to a straightforward carry one, can all regime for digital signals, just like the one that exists for analog signals today.

The FCC is expected to vote on Martin's DBS carriage rule on Feb. 26.

Currently, the law requires that when a satellite operator chooses to carry any local broadcast signals, it must carry all full power local broadcast signals in that market. The pending item clarifies that, in such a `local-into local' market, where a full power television station is broadcasting only in digital, it is the digital signal that the satellite operator carries. This clarification is critical to ensuring that satellite customers, like cable customers, will continue to receive the same broadcast stations they saw the day before the transition on the day after

the transition, Martin's prepared remarks said.

Martin's testimony suggested that DBS didn't have to deliver any local signal in HD and he appeared to leave the door wide open for downconversion of some HD signals to standard definition.

Last week, Martin described his proposal differently.

What we said is that you have to carry them in a nondiscriminatory way, but if you are under capacity constraints, then you can come back to the commission and explain why you can't carry them all in high definition, for example, or you can carry them in standard definition but only some in high definition because you still don't have enough capacity, Martin told reporters.

An FCC rule mandating satellite HD parity for local TV stations would result in duplicative carriage burdens. DirecTV, for example, would not be able to carry a local TV signal only in HD because the signal wouldn't be viewable in homes that didn't have HD set-top boxes. DirecTV would need to carry the signal both in HD and standard definition.

Unlike cable operators, DirecTV and Dish Network have the option of not carrying local TV signals at all. DirecTV is developing a set-top box that can terrestrially receive DTV signals


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13099606
> 
> 
> It was probably the ice. My D* signal went flaky then out completely about the same time last night. I went outside with my 10 foot stick and tapped the dish to knock the ice off and the signal came right back.
> 
> 
> I've seen some spray sold on the internet that coats the dish (with silicone I guess) supposedly keeps the ice from sticking. I also vaguely remember seeing dish heaters somewhere. I think I've also seen a fabric cover type deal to keep the dish clean.



We used to use PAM cooking spray on our 5 meter dishes... works pretty well.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/13100151
> 
> 
> By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 2/12/2008 9:34:00 AM
> 
> 
> 
> Washington - Federal Communications Commission chairman Kevin Martin might be retreating from his plan dealing with the carriage of local TV signals by satellite carriers DirecTV and Dish Network in early 2009 after the digital TV transition.
> 
> Martin's new approach was contained in prepared House testimony he is planning to deliver Wednesday before the Telecommunications and the Internet Subcommittee. A copy of Martin's testimony was obtained by Multichannel News on Tuesday.
> 
> Last Friday, Martin described his plan as a strict non-discrimination rule, which would ban DirecTV and EchoStar from carrying some local TV stations in high-definition but not others in HD.
> 
> The two satellite giants could depart from this standard, he said, but only with an FCC waiver based upon a showing of limited channel capacity. Martin's rule would take effect after the national shut off of analog TV signals on Feb. 17, 2009.
> 
> In his House testimony, Martin made no mention of his HD-parity proposal. Instead, he simply referred to a straightforward carry one, can all regime for digital signals, just like the one that exists for analog signals today.
> 
> The FCC is expected to vote on Martin's DBS carriage rule on Feb. 26.
> 
> Currently, the law requires that when a satellite operator chooses to carry any local broadcast signals, it must carry all full power local broadcast signals in that market. The pending item clarifies that, in such a `local-into local' market, where a full power television station is broadcasting only in digital, it is the digital signal that the satellite operator carries. This clarification is critical to ensuring that satellite customers, like cable customers, will continue to receive the same broadcast stations they saw the day before the transition on the day after
> 
> the transition, Martin's prepared remarks said.
> 
> Martin's testimony suggested that DBS didn't have to deliver any local signal in HD and he appeared to leave the door wide open for downconversion of some HD signals to standard definition.
> 
> Last week, Martin described his proposal differently.
> 
> What we said is that you have to carry them in a nondiscriminatory way, but if you are under capacity constraints, then you can come back to the commission and explain why you can't carry them all in high definition, for example, or you can carry them in standard definition but only some in high definition because you still don't have enough capacity, Martin told reporters.
> 
> An FCC rule mandating satellite HD parity for local TV stations would result in duplicative carriage burdens. *DirecTV, for example, would not be able to carry a local TV signal only in HD because the signal wouldn't be viewable in homes that didn't have HD set-top boxes. DirecTV would need to carry the signal both in HD and standard definition.*
> 
> Unlike cable operators, DirecTV and Dish Network have the option of not carrying local TV signals at all. DirecTV is developing a set-top box that can terrestrially receive DTV signals



Ummm....


D* DOES carry both the SD locals where the HD locals are also available. The same applies to E*. (In Cleveland, E* currently just offers SD locals. They do not have HD locals yet).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13100275
> 
> 
> Ummm....
> 
> 
> D* DOES carry both the SD locals where the HD locals are also available. The same applies to E*. (In Cleveland, E* currently just offers SD locals. They do not have HD locals yet).



Yeah, and anyway there is an unwritten rule around here. When you post something, provide a link.

*By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 2/12/2008 9:34:00 AM*


I have no idea who they are.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

I tried to post the link but it's not working.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13100753
> 
> 
> I tried to post the link but it's not working.



So your saying you know these people and his statement is correct?


Your word is as good as a link for me and no offense was meant to clevemkt but like HD MM says D* is already carrying both and E* is carrying the local channels.


So what's all the fuss?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13101139
> 
> 
> So your saying you know these people and his statement is correct?
> 
> 
> Your word is as good as a link for me and no offense was meant to clevemkt but like HD MM says D* is already carrying both and E* is carrying the local channels.
> 
> *So what's all the fuss?*



I'm still trying to understand what the fuss is about???? The practice of carrying both the SD and HD (where available) has always been in place by DBS providers. This sounds to me that people are getting confused by the difference between HD and digital again. Both the HD and SD local feeds through satellite are already digital. So once the analog shutoff comes around, from my understanding this has no impact on satellite.


----------



## SteveC

I don't know if this has been posted but D* users can now schedule recordings on their DVRs from the D* website. For example, if you are at work and realize you forgot to set your DVR to record a show you can signon to your account on the D* website, pull up the online channel guide, select a show and tell it to program your DVR to schedule the recording. I tried it and it works great.


----------



## jtscherne

Unfortunately, my dish is high on top of the garage, so there's no way for me to get up there. The signal went flaky around 7:00 and was back at 8:45. It didn't wipe out all channels, so I was able to watch the SD locals as well as some OTA.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13099606
> 
> 
> It was probably the ice. My D* signal went flaky then out completely about the same time last night. I went outside with my 10 foot stick and tapped the dish to knock the ice off and the signal came right back.
> 
> 
> I've seen some spray sold on the internet that coats the dish (with silicone I guess) supposedly keeps the ice from sticking. I also vaguely remember seeing dish heaters somewhere. I think I've also seen a fabric cover type deal to keep the dish clean.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/13101475
> 
> 
> I don't know if this has been posted but D* users can now schedule recordings on their DVRs from the D* website. For example, if you are at work and realize you forgot to set your DVR to record a show you can signon to your account on the D* website, pull up the online channel guide, select a show and tell it to program your DVR to schedule the recording. I tried it and it works great.



Yup. It was posted: here and here. 


I've taken advantage of this feature at least 6-7 times already. Typically when I learn of an upcoming program that interests me, I'm usually on the computer, so this is super convenient for me. If I waited till I was at home or in front of the TV to set the recording, chances are I would forget about it and miss out. This is truly a great feature.


And as Hook has also mentioned in the past, TiVo has had this feature for quite some time through their site or the Zap2it.com site.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13071721
> 
> 
> One of the tricky things about amplifiers is that they can be driven into nonlinear operation on strong channels, causing distortion that can wipe out a digital channel. Those distortions can easily splatter across other frequencies, taking out more than the strong channels that caused the clipping in the first place.
> 
> 
> Be especially wary of amps with crummy, intermittent gain pots. I've struggled with many amps from RS that would go absolutely banannas from just touching the gain pot. Getting the pot adjusted to the correct gain was an exercise in futility, and I usually wound up having to settle for a setting that was _almost_ good enough.



TY all for your input!







Thing is that where I am there is no such thing as a "strong" channel in my area, so there is really no overloading or gain problems, more or less I've had the gain turned completely up on these type of amps that yielded the best results. I did have a similar problem upon moving back here from out west I had to remove the FM amp from the car because of distortion/images on FM especially on the 271 corridor.


Nevertheless, I'll likely be upgrading 2 sets with these new converter boxes, as I'll also be inheriting a 5 year old 32" Sony Trinitron..... yeah, much rather have new, but if it's not broke why fix it? I have no intentions of ever going to Cable, D* or E*. Likely I'll be doing some side by side tests with the converter boxes as they become available, I don't know just how much they can change within the upcoming year &/or if newer features will be available on them.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13093468
> 
> 
> Waht's going on with "American Idol" right now?? Color bars for three minutes followed by freezing/pixelation.



I don't watch this but had the first 5 minutes on & was doing the same in analog OTA.. Fox 8 Logo for about 3 minutes followed by freezing & pixilization.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13100604
> 
> 
> Yeah, and anyway there is an unwritten rule around here. When you post something, provide a link.
> 
> *By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 2/12/2008 9:34:00 AM*
> 
> 
> I have no idea who they are.



Fair enough. I am having the same issue Bob is having. (From NAB Daily Briefing... that's the National Association of Broadcasters)... but here's Multichannel News' site: http://www.multichannel.com/ Good source.


FWIW, I have worked in local television since 1967. NAB Member and member of Chapter 70, SBE (Society of Broadcast Engineers), NATAS, have been a General Manager of a local TV station, taught at the U of A, etc.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13102085
> 
> 
> TY all for your input!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is that where I am there is no such thing as a "strong" channel in my area, so there is really no overloading or gain problems, more or less I've had the gain turned completely up on these type of amps that yielded the best results. I did have a similar problem upon moving back here from out west I had to remove the FM amp from the car because of distortion/images on FM especially on the 271 corridor.
> 
> 
> Nevertheless, I'll likely be upgrading 2 sets with these new converter boxes, as I'll also be inheriting a 5 year old 32" Sony Trinitron..... yeah, much rather have new, but if it's not broke why fix it? I have no intentions of ever going to Cable, D* or E*. Likely I'll be doing some side by side tests with the converter boxes as they become available, I don't know just how much they can change within the upcoming year &/or if newer features will be available on them.



Does this mean you don't currently have an ATSC tuner on any of your TV's?

Your success with an amplifier on analog channels may or may not continue on the digital - especially WOIO which is the weakest of them all, and will continue to be after the transition.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13101378
> 
> 
> I'm still trying to understand what the fuss is about????



From what I'm reading in that article (link) , the FCC is basically telling D* and E* that they must carry HD versions of PBS and other stations (CW, MyNetwork) that are willing to make an agreement for carriage if they're going to carry "the big 4." It is my understanding that D* (and probably E*) is not too interested in channels that are not "the big 4" (ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox) which the FCC is finding discriminatory.


That article also says that if the DBS providers can provide a claim for limited channel capacity they can get out of this requirement (which they likely will, but they have to admit the capacity issue which is a PR issue for DBS).


From what I'm reading it seems that DBS providers have an all or nothing deal with the FCC to carry analog, full power locals. If they carry analog, full power locals they must carry all analog, full power local channels. I believe the FCC is now asking that the same is applied to digital and HD broadcasts.


One big issue I think this article doesn't cover is if all subchannels must be carried or if just the primary subchannel is required.


Also, this article doesn't cover retransmission consent issues which would prevent D* from being able to carry all of the locals in a market regardless of the resolution or transmission method.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13102342
> 
> 
> From what I'm reading in that article (link) , the FCC is basically telling D* and E* that they must carry HD versions of PBS and other stations (CW, MyNetwork) that are willing to make an agreement for carriage if they're going to carry "the big 4." It is my understanding that D* (and probably E*) is not too interested in channels that are not "the big 4" (ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox) which the FCC is finding discriminatory.



I just took a look and sure enough D* does not carry CW or MyTV in HD. MYTV however as we have discussed before doesn't offer much in the way of HD and CW, according to TW only offers 12 hours per week of HD.


Still TW carries MYTV in both digital (actually upgraded analog) and HD. CW only comes in analog. So if the dishes have to follow this rule, TW will as well which means eventually they will have to add the CW.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13102342
> 
> *From what I'm reading in that article (link) , the FCC is basically telling D* and E* that they must carry HD versions of PBS and other stations (CW, MyNetwork) that are willing to make an agreement for carriage if they're going to carry "the big 4."* It is my understanding that D* (and probably E*) is not too interested in channels that are not "the big 4" (ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox) which the FCC is finding discriminatory.



How can the FCC mandate which HD channels a private TV company provides it's customer's?? And it's not like D* or E* doesn't provide their SD counterparts. What's next, is the FCC going to force TW to pickup BTN-HD, NFLN-HD and other HD channels that satellite gets? This is ludicrous!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13102342
> 
> 
> That article also says that if the DBS providers can provide a claim for limited channel capacity they can get out of this requirement (which they likely will, but they have to admit the capacity issue which is a PR issue for DBS).
> 
> 
> From what I'm reading it seems that DBS providers have an all or nothing deal with the FCC to carry analog, full power locals. If they carry analog, full power locals they must carry all analog, full power local channels. I believe the FCC is now asking that the same is applied to digital and HD broadcasts.



But aren't all of the channels provided through DBS already digital, locals and all? SD and HD are technically both digital transmissions through DBS, so they're fine by the FCC's request for all digital or nothing. SD CW/PBS are still digital. Each DBS satellite and set top box already ensures this!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13102342
> 
> 
> One big issue I think this article doesn't cover is if all subchannels must be carried or if just the primary subchannel is required.
> 
> 
> Also, this article doesn't cover retransmission consent issues which would prevent D* from being able to carry all of the locals in a market regardless of the resolution or transmission method.



Frankly, this article leaves a lot of unanswered questions.....


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13102617
> 
> 
> How can the FCC mandate which HD channels a private TV company provides it's customer's?? And it's not like D* or E* doesn't provide their SD counterparts.



The FCC can very easily regulate DBS since it falls under their jurisdiction (see Wiki:FCC ). The SD counterparts aren't the issue. DBS is discriminating against certain HD affiliates that want to be carried and DBS refuses to carry them.


Here's the other half that I'm just now figuring out from this article. The current regulations from the FCC regarding DBS and locals only covers analog broadcasts. Once Feb 2009 rolls around those signals go away and so does the regulation. The FCC is trying to make sure that you still get all of your local channels (if offered in your market) once the analog transmissions go away.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13102617
> 
> 
> But aren't all of the channels provided through DBS already digital, locals and all? SD and HD are technically both digital transmissions through DBS, so they're fine by the FCC's request for all digital or nothing. SD CW/PBS are still digital. Each DBS satellite and set top box already ensures this!



Don't confuse the digital broadcast mandate to include cable or DBS in their distribution. The digital conversion only covers the termination of analog broadcasts OTA on UHF and VHF bands.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13103257
> 
> 
> Don't confuse the digital broadcast mandate to include cable or DBS in their distribution. The digital conversion only covers the termination of analog broadcasts OTA on UHF and VHF bands.



Terry is dead on here. The FCC is concerned with reclaiming that portion of the over-the-air spectrum for use by 2-way communications and other advanced services. Since cable and DBS don't send any signals into the open airwaves on those frequencies, they're unaffected by the 2009 analog shutdown.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13103601
> 
> 
> Since cable and DBS don't send any signals into the open airwaves on those frequencies, they're unaffected by the 2009 analog shutdown.



Well, that's not entirely true. DBS and cable are affected indirectly with the loss of the analog signal they use as a source for their SD retransmission (with a few exceptions).


----------



## dleising

I don't know if anybody has asked this question before...


I am on the TW system near Kent (Akron channels). I was wondering if there was any difference between the digital channels in the expanded basic lineup, and the very same channels that are in the 600s. There are quite a few that are replicated there.

Thanks.


----------



## paule123

A little bit OT ... we are moving our office to a new location that happens to be wired for Time Warner Cable. I am thinking of Time Warner Cable Business Internet access for general surfing the net and possibly an email/web server at the new office. Any opinions on the reliability of business service from TWC ?


Right now at our current location we have a very expensive T1 (1.5Mbps), but when there is a problem (VERY rarely), I call and get right through to a knowledgeable tech, and they jump on it right away. (This is a T1 from Verizon Business formerly WorldCom formerly MCI formerly UUNet, the best network in the land, LOL) Curious if "business" class service from TWC can compare.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13106093
> 
> 
> Right now at our current location we have a very expensive T1 (1.5Mbps), but when there is a problem (VERY rarely), I call and get right through to a knowledgeable tech, and they jump on it right away. (This is a T1 from Verizon Business formerly WorldCom formerly MCI formerly UUNet, the best network in the land, LOL) Curious if "business" class service from TWC can compare.



Hehe - I have quotes from TWC sitting on my desk right now - considering something similar. You can get their business class service in two forms: cable (same technology as home RoadRunner service, but they add static IP addresses and (I believe) a SLA) and fiber. The cable version has the same issues as home RR - fairly reliable, shared bandwidth with your neighbors, etc. Their fiber offering is an entirely different beast, but it's SERIOUS cash. (Makes your T1 look cheap.)


My biggest concern with their cable offering regards their repair techs. Do they send out the same low-level idio....err...techs that have come to my house, or do business customers automatically get better people? (Waiting on that answer from my sales rep.)


I'll check my quotes tomorrow and get the details about SLA, etc.


Of course, there is a pretty good reason T1's cost what they do... I have several of them, and probably wouldn't switch them out without a very good reason to do so.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13106281
> 
> 
> My biggest concern with their cable offering regards their repair techs. Do they send out the same low-level idio....err...techs that have come to my house, or do business customers automatically get better people? (Waiting on that answer from my sales rep.)



I can only speak as a home owner but my experience with the techs that come out for internet vs. the techs that do your cable TV is like night and day.


Internet techs are very knowledgeable, IMHO and they are very thorough. I had an outage and called to let them know. While I was talking to the rep it came back up. She said good, but she noticed some problems that I can't see on her end and sent a truck roll.


Something apparently was not coming in or going out right, I don't remember but the tech that came out knew what he was there for had me show him where the cable stuff was and fixed it. He also ran a test from my computer to make sure everything was up to spec. I was impressed.


One word of caution: This experience happened when it was still Adelphia H.S. internet, not RR yet. I imagine however they have the same people.


Has anyone else other then me got a letter saying they need to change out the modem for Turbo RR?


----------



## terryfoster

I would imagine Business Class has their own techs for how responsive they are to any trouble calls. We have Business Class service at my office and we have customers with offices around Cinci and the state of Ohio for whom we recommend TWC Business Class service.


----------



## rick490

I've noticed in my area, TWC seems to be moving the HD locals. In the last couple days WKYC HD moved to 3.1 with WKYC weather on 3.2. The same for ch 5 (5.1), ch 8 (8.1), ch 19 (19.1), ch 19 weather (19.2),ch 43 (43.1), and ch 49 (49.1). Before they were much harder to locate, for example ch 3 hd was on 101.1.


----------



## 8IronBob

Seems like Cox is doing rather well here in Parma. I'm able to get more stations that way than OTA, at this point. Hopefully that'll change closer to that magic date a year from now. Right now, the most stable signals that I'm getting are WKYC, WEWS, WJW, WUAB, WQHS, and sometimes WOIO, if I'm using the right antenna when it comes to OTA HD. Otherwise, the only way I can get WBNX and WVIZ seem to be over QAM lines at this point... Sometimes I will get WBNX OTA, but it's usually hit, and most times miss. WVIZ seems to have DRM when it comes to OTA, so QAM seems to be the only way I can get that at this point... Whether or not that'll change eventually, I can't really tell you off hand...


EDIT: Ooh, I hate that number of posts that I made thus far. Someone exorcise me!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13108867
> 
> 
> Seems like Cox is doing rather well here in Parma. I'm able to get more stations that way than OTA, at this point. Hopefully that'll change closer to that magic date a year from now. Right now, the most stable signals that I'm getting are WKYC, WEWS, WJW, WUAB, WQHS, and sometimes WOIO, if I'm using the right antenna when it comes to OTA HD. Otherwise, the only way I can get WBNX and WVIZ seem to be over QAM lines at this point... Sometimes I will get WBNX OTA, but it's usually hit, and most times miss. WVIZ seems to have DRM when it comes to OTA, so QAM seems to be the only way I can get that at this point... Whether or not that'll change eventually, I can't really tell you off hand...
> 
> 
> EDIT: Ooh, I hate that number of posts that I made thus far. Someone exorcise me!



You little devil you.







Anyway hardly anyone gets WVIZ OTA and probably won't for a long time to come.


Now you can respond to this and take care of your, um, problem.


----------



## 8IronBob

Yeah... Thanks a lot. However, I'd have to say that QAM may be the only way WVIZ will come in. However, as for the others for OTA, I'd say that there's only a handful of ones that are actually stable. I have a Philips 50dB that I got from Walmart about a year ago for my bedroom TV, and an RCA Terrestrial that I recently bought for my HTPC. However, it seems like even tho my RCA may be less dB than the Philips, it's picking up more stations than my Philips, for some odd reason. Sounds weird, but seems like my PC's picking up more stations (at least I can record HDTV on my PC, and use my X360 to extend those for playback).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13108965
> 
> 
> Yeah... Thanks a lot. However, I'd have to say that QAM may be the only way WVIZ will come in. However, as for the others for OTA, I'd say that there's only a handful of ones that are actually stable. I have a Philips 50dB that I got from Walmart about a year ago for my bedroom TV, and an RCA Terrestrial that I recently bought for my HTPC. However, it seems like even tho my RCA may be less dB than the Philips, it's picking up more stations than my Philips, for some odd reason. Sounds weird, but seems like my PC's picking up more stations (at least I can record HDTV on my PC, and use my X360 to extend those for playback).



My OTA digital/HD is pretty rock solid. Rarely an issue. And far fewer issues than I see in this forum regarding HD locals via cable.


Of course, no WVIZ HD OTA.







But I have noticed a HUGE improvement on my WOW cable SD local WVIZ. Is it digital now? Just a better analog signal?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13108965
> 
> 
> Yeah... Thanks a lot. However, I'd have to say that QAM may be the only way WVIZ will come in. However, as for the others for OTA, I'd say that there's only a handful of ones that are actually stable. I have a Philips 50dB that I got from Walmart about a year ago for my bedroom TV, and an RCA Terrestrial that I recently bought for my HTPC. However, it seems like even tho my RCA may be less dB than the Philips, it's picking up more stations than my Philips, for some odd reason. Sounds weird, but seems like my PC's picking up more stations (at least I can record HDTV on my PC, and use my X360 to extend those for playback).



I can get WVIZ-DT in Parma using a Silver Sensor and a lot of patience. I have to aim it out my patio door just a little bit west of due north. Forget trying to get it through a wall, only an unscreened window or door will do. I'm a little bit over 3 miles from the Brookpark Rd. transmitter (southeast corner of Parma not far from where 3 cities meet).


----------



## 8IronBob

Well, I usually find doing makeshift pedestals for my OTA HD antennae myself. I just stack a few old books to form a small tower, and place the antenna on top, telescope the rods, and point my "satellite" thingy in the direction that the majority of the trasmition antennae are located (being here around the Snow/Ridge Rd. area, that would be facing southeast), and that's usually optimal for a lot of things.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13112405
> 
> 
> Well, I usually find doing makeshift pedestals for my OTA HD antennae myself. I just stack a few old books to form a small tower, and place the antenna on top, telescope the rods, and point my "satellite" thingy in the direction that the majority of the trasmition antennae are located (being here around the Snow/Ridge Rd. area, that would be facing southeast), and that's usually optimal for a lot of things.



OIC, you are talking set top antenna. Mine is chimney mounted. That may explain our diferences in OTA PQ and reliability.


But also satellite looking.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13112452
> 
> 
> OIC, you are talking set top antenna. Mine is chimney mounted. That may explain our diferences in OTA PQ and reliability.
> 
> 
> But also satellite looking.



I wanted to put one of those things on my entertainment center to use with my S3. Wife vetoed it.


She doesn't like antennas.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13112797
> 
> 
> I wanted to put one of those things on my entertainment center to use with my S3. Wife vetoed it.
> 
> 
> She doesn't like antennas.



I'm no fan of antennas myself. I can't think of anything *less* attractive on/near a home than an antenna. But then it's worth a little loss in aesthetics for the content.


Luckily I'm close enough to the Parma Farm to be able to use a very low key version. My neighbors didn't even know I had put it up till I pointed it out to them. It's just a 23" x 2" disc on my chimney.


Technically, I'm not even supposed to have an antenna in my development. But it's so low key noone even notices it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *8IronBob* /forum/post/13112405
> 
> 
> Well, I usually find doing makeshift pedestals for my OTA HD antennae myself. I just stack a few old books to form a small tower, and place the antenna on top, telescope the rods, and point my "satellite" thingy in the direction that the majority of the trasmition antennae are located (being here around the Snow/Ridge Rd. area, that would be facing southeast), and that's usually optimal for a lot of things.



From Snow/Ridge you would have to aim your antenna towards Brookpark & State (just a little bit east of due north. The rest of the towers are in the opposite direction (as you say southeast). You are a lot closer to WVIZ-DT than I am so only ground clutter would hamper your reception of their mini-signal.


While the majority of Greater Cleveland OTA viewers only have to aim their antennas in one direction to hit all the towers, here in "ground zero" we are surrounded by 'em.


BTW: I taped together several cardboard boxes to raise my Silver Sensor. The extra height was necessary to pull in WEAO-DT and WDLI-DT. I don't have a window facing south for those two, however the south facing wall does not have aluminum siding on the other side (it's looking through the attached garage). I think I'm going to try moving my (local) antennas to the attic this spring (I have one on the chimney looking east for WKBN-DT). I use 2 A/B switches in tandem to switch between the Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown antennas.


----------



## Myther

Hi. Long time lurker, but first time poster. First, you guys have been a great help in getting my system set up so thanks for that.


I have done some searches, but couldnt find a clear answer so I hope this is not a repeat.


I currently have a Mits WD 65734 and am using the built in QAM to get NBC/ABC/FOX HD. I never watch any other channels and mostly use the TV for movies. My questions is can I cancel the basic cable service and still pick up these channels over QAM? I am in Cleveland, OH and have Time Warner Basic cable package. Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Myther* /forum/post/13113944
> 
> 
> I currently have a Mits WD 65734 and am using the built in QAM to get NBC/ABC/FOX HD. I never watch any other channels and mostly use the TV for movies. My questions is can I cancel the basic cable service and still pick up these channels over QAM? I am in Cleveland, OH and have Time Warner Basic cable package. Thanks.



How can you cancel your service and expect to get channels over QAM? Unless you left out that you have Road Runner and that's how you get your internet.


I believe it is possible if you have internet through TW that you can still get these channels over QAM from what I've read. But I'm not an expert in QAM so if I'm wrong someone will come by and set me straight shortly.


However if you cancel your basic service and your not using internet from TW then I don't think that's going to happen.


Edited to add: Others may disagree but IMHO that's stealing. I love a little controversy.


----------



## Myther

Stealing? I had no idea! If that is the case its not worth it for $16/month. I was under the impression that QAM channels are something like getting OTA HD channels which are "free" (i think).


If it is stealing forget it, but if not I do use TW for internet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Myther* /forum/post/13114898
> 
> 
> Stealing? I had no idea! If that is the case its not worth it for $16/month. I was under the impression that QAM channels are something like getting OTA HD channels which are "free" (i think).
> 
> 
> If it is stealing forget it, but if not I do use TW for internet.




Well, if you hook up to cable and you get a signal without paying anything for it then you are stealing. It's just that simple. But probably if you canceled your service you would not get the signal anyway.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> How can you cancel your service and expect to get channels over QAM? Unless you left out that you have Road Runner and that's how you get your internet.
> 
> 
> I believe it is possible if you have internet through TW that you can still get these channels over QAM from what I've read. But I'm not an expert in QAM so if I'm wrong someone will come by and set me straight shortly.
> 
> 
> However if you cancel your basic service and your not using internet from TW then I don't think that's going to happen.
> 
> 
> Edited to add: Others may disagree but IMHO that's stealing. I love a little controversy.





> Quote:
> Stealing? I had no idea! If that is the case its not worth it for $16/month. I was under the impression that QAM channels are something like getting OTA HD channels which are "free" (i think).
> 
> 
> If it is stealing forget it, but if not I do use TW for internet.



For as much as RR from TW costs, I would consider getting "free tv" for free as a bonus for giving them all that money every month.

If I watch local tv channels along with RR that TW is pipeing into MY HOME, and that's considered stealing?... I think that is stretching it a little.


How bout those ketchup packets, napkins, and straws at fast food restaurants?... ever take a few of those with you?

Ever take anything out of someone else's trash or out of a dumpster?... it's not really yours, right?

How about at the doctor's office... that bowl of candy/mints... ever take two?

Have you ever told a lie?... I know I haven't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13115297
> 
> 
> For as much as RR from TW costs, I would consider getting "free tv" for free as a bonus for giving them all that money every month.
> 
> If I watch local tv channels along with RR that TW is pipeing into MY HOME, and that's considered stealing?... I think that is stretching it a little.
> 
> 
> How bout those ketchup packets, napkins, and straws at fast food restaurants?... ever take a few of those with you?
> 
> Ever take anything out of someone else's trash or out of a dumpster?... it's not really yours, right?
> 
> How about at the doctor's office... that bowl of candy/mints... ever take two?
> 
> Have you ever told a lie?... I know I haven't.




Call TW and ask them if they think it's stealing.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Actually, over the last couple months my cable periodically loses the HD signals. I can't tell if it's normal, or if they're working on the lines, or if there's something wrong with my line/drop. Anyway, I think I may call them to come out and look at it. When they're here I'll ask about the RR/free basic cable scenario ans see what the tech has to say about it.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13107118
> 
> 
> Internet techs are very knowledgeable, IMHO and they are very thorough. I had an outage and called to let them know. While I was talking to the rep it came back up. She said good, but she noticed some problems that I can't see on her end and sent a truck roll.



On that point, I'll generally agree.... On the few occasions I've had a TWC tech out to check on a RR problem, I don't remember ever being "disgusted".


However, there is one visit that will stick in my mind for a long time. RR had been dead for a few days, and a tech showed up to fix the problem. The (very old) cable modem was dead. The guy stared at my rather large rack of computers, routers, modems, and other gizmos for a minute, then said: (this is kinda funny)


him: "OK, where is it?"

me: "The cable modem? Here." (I pointed to it.)

him: "That's OUR'S?!?! I've never seen one of those..."

me: "Yep - I've been a RR subscriber for a LONG time...."


He replaced the box, got the service running, and spent the next hour (without me asking) checking and tuning the signal levels to my cable boxes and non-boxed TVs until they were right where they should be.


Very knowledgable and pleasant guy to work with. If only TWC had all of their techs trained this well...


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Myther* /forum/post/13114898
> 
> 
> Stealing? I had no idea! If that is the case its not worth it for $16/month. I was under the impression that QAM channels are something like getting OTA HD channels which are "free" (i think). If it is stealing forget it, but if not I do use TW for internet.



If you're not paying for at least basic "lifeline" cable service, then you are not entitled to connect their cable to your TV. If you connect it, you are stealing service.


And internet service doesn't change that. If you have internet service, you are entitled to connect their cable to your cable modem, but not to your TV.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13116672
> 
> 
> If you're not paying for at least basic "lifeline" cable service, then you are not entitled to connect their cable to your TV. If you connect it, you are stealing service.
> 
> 
> And internet service doesn't change that. If you have internet service, you are entitled to connect their cable to your cable modem, but not to your TV.



I would like to believe I am entitled to do anything I want with the coax cable within my house. They can simply remove the frequiences that carry the signals and thus when plugging it in, nothing would transmit. I would say that this does seem to fall on some moral fence on whether it is right or wrong to watch it. Seeing that those broadcasts (Local HD) are sent over the air I wouldnt feel bad getting them free through the cable (assuming i have some service with TW).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13113317
> 
> 
> ........I think I'm going to try moving my (local) antennas to the attic this spring (I have one on the chimney looking east for WKBN-DT). I use 2 A/B switches in tandem to switch between the Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown antennas.



With you being so close to the antenna farm putting your antennas in the attic may just work. I tried a directional outdoor antenna in the attic (as recommended by antennaweb.org) but ch 3 & ch 19 were very weak and lost their signals frequently. All of the other local ch's were very solid with signals at 75%. The attic walls & roof can diminish the signals by 50%.










Once I went to the bidirectional disc on the chimney it solved the 3 & 19 issues to where 3 & 19 are now a 75% consistent signal and the rest are 100%.


Anyone need a directional antenna with a 2 output distribution amp?









1 year old, used indoor only?
http://antennasdirect.com/V15_vhf_antenna.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13116932
> 
> 
> I would like to believe I am entitled to do anything I want with the coax cable within my house. They can simply remove the frequiences that carry the signals and thus when plugging it in, nothing would transmit. I would say that this does seem to fall on some moral fence on whether it is right or wrong to watch it. Seeing that those broadcasts (Local HD) are sent over the air I wouldnt feel bad getting them free through the cable (assuming i have some service with TW).



So if the neighbors newspaper starts landing in your driveway and you know it's the neighbors newspaper it's yours? I mean it's on your driveway right?










Actually I feel that if you get internet service and you're able to get a basic signal that's TW's problem. I really wouldn't consider that stealing although I understand Jim's point. Yes, you are using something that you're not paying for but then again you didn't force that part of the signal to get into you're house. But the bottom line is you are still getting something that you're not paying for.


Geeze, my head is spinning on a moral circle on this one.







I say if it doesn't bother your conscience, even a bit then maybe it's ok.


But some people kill people and that doesn't bother them either.


Crap, I'm going to stop. I'm driving myself nuts now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13115685
> 
> 
> Actually, over the last couple months my cable periodically loses the HD signals. I can't tell if it's normal, or if they're working on the lines, or if there's something wrong with my line/drop. Anyway, I think I may call them to come out and look at it. When they're here I'll ask about the RR/free basic cable scenario ans see what the tech has to say about it.



No, that's not normal and it's been going on for a couple of MONTHS?


Dude, you just dropped on the hookbill respectometer. I'll be that breaks your day doesn't it.










And as far as asking the tech about the rr/free cable he's going to answer according to his personal moral compass. If he's a company guy, or a completely honest guy he would say you shouldn't do it.


If you're just asking if it can be done he may not tell you the truth. I know I've read where people can get basic cable from just having internet cable from TW so I know it works. Maybe it doesn't work in all areas but it must in some parts of town.


----------



## hookbill

We were talking a few pages back about contacting this dude via email. Someone said they never got a response back and I said when I tried he didn't contact me but someone else did.


It happened again.


I tried to find out when my new modem was going to arrive from customer service. Rep said she wanted to ask her supervisor if she could find out and asked if she could call me back.


Of course I never got a call back. So I call the next day and ask the rep if she sees the notes about yesterdays conversation. She says she doesn't see anything in there from me for a couple of months, and my modem will get there when it gets there with the "and don't be questioning me about this" tone.


So I sent the following email to [email protected] :

*Dear Mr. Fry,


On Saturday, February 9, 2008 I received a letter from you stating that it had come to your attention that my current modem is not capable of delivering Road Runner Turbo Service. The letter stated that a refund would be made for service that I had not received and that and I quote "In the next few days you will receive a replacement modem via UPS."


The problem I have is that I would like to know what exactly "the next few days" means. To me that would mean maybe a week from the date of the letter at the most. However on this letter there is no date.


So I called customer service who had no idea I had the wrong modem but said she would check with her supervisor to see when it would be sent. She said she would call back and let me know what she found out. For some reason I thought that meant the same day! Anyway, I called this morning to see if anything had been found out and the representative said she didn't see any notes about my call and that the modems would be sent out sometime but she had no idea when that would happen. I asked why they didn't do a truck roll and she said that it was for the customers convenience. She said that way when UPS delivered I could sign for the modem and that would save a truck roll and me the inconvenience of going to my local office and picking up the proper modem.


Is there anyway you could tell me a better time frame of when I can expect my modem to arrive? I would really rather have the turbo service for a variety of reasons, and yes, I did notice the difference in speed. I've noticed it for a while.


My home phone is 330.555.5555. If you could have someone call me I would appreciate it. I should be home after 3:00 this afternoon.


Sincerely


hookbill*


I got a call from a TW representative at 3:15 pm from TW who said my modem is being shipped tomorrow (today) and I should receive it by Monday.


So he may not contact you directly, but he will get your question to the right person.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13117350
> 
> 
> I got a call from a TW representative at 3:15 pm from TW who said my modem is being shipped tomorrow (today) and I should receive it by Monday.
> 
> 
> So he may not contact you directly, but he will get your question to the right person.



It will be interesting to see if it has been pre-provisioned in the system and ready-to-go or if you have to call and have CS do it after you receive and install it! I've read horror stories on getting new modems up and running post-Adelphia....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/13117762
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see if it has been pre-provisioned in the system and ready-to-go or if you have to call and have CS do it after you receive and install it! I've read horror stories on getting new modems up and running post-Adelphia....



I don't think that's a worry. They did refund my account as they promised. I'll bet the modem will be here by next week.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13117195
> 
> 
> No, that's not normal and it's been going on for a couple of MONTHS?
> 
> 
> Dude, you just dropped on the hookbill respectometer. I'll be that breaks your day doesn't it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as far as asking the tech about the rr/free cable he's going to answer according to his personal moral compass. If he's a company guy, or a completely honest guy he would say you shouldn't do it.
> 
> 
> If you're just asking if it can be done he may not tell you the truth. I know I've read where people can get basic cable from just having internet cable from TW so I know it works. Maybe it doesn't work in all areas but it must in some parts of town.



Well, like I said, it only happens periodically, not all the time. The signal will break start to break up here and there, and then eventually pixelate and deminish, forcing me to them watch the analog feed (no probs with analog).

The problem will last anywhere form a few hours to a few days. It's so random that I can't tell if it is connected to weater changes or not. I think that maybe there is some water in the line or in the filters. They've been doing some channel realignments here recently too so I thought maybe it was from them working on the system.

They've finally moved some channels to their proper placement. Like WKYC to 3.1 and same goes for 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1, ect...

It hasn't screwed up since they moved the channels, so I'll wait for now and see. If it does it one more time, then I will call for sure.


As far as asking the tech about the RR/free cable situation... basically, I would just ask him if TW is aware of the situation, and if they really care. I can't imagine they'd make a real fuss. Most who can afford to pay for RR have more than just basic cable anyway IMO. So the lost revenue by TW isn't even a blip on the map.


----------



## Rbuchina

When I changed over to Comcast (now TWC) a few years ago I remember that if I were to only get the cable modem only it would have cost me as much as getting both cable modem and basic digital cable. In other words it was as economical to just order both cable modem and basic digital cable even if you had no intention of using the cable TV service. I believe they need to deliver the digital cable service to you house to cover the bandwidth of cable modem. It was a non issue to me at the time since I took the entire package with HD service DVR and a second cable box. I am close to making the jump back to satellite and dropping the TW so I will be interested to see what cable modem only service costs.


Ray


----------



## dleising

That was me who did not receive a call back from Steve Fry.

I guess I'll try again when I get a chance.


When you have RR, do you lease a box from TW? I'm thinking if I am going to get RR, then I will buy a used one off of eBay or buy my own box so I don't have to lease.


----------



## toby10

"The format war has turned into a format death watch.


Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...d0bfb0c25aa58d


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13120603
> 
> 
> "The format war has turned into a format death watch.
> 
> 
> Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May."
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...d0bfb0c25aa58d



Wal-Mart just announced (this morning) that they are going BR exclusive.

I absolutely love my "HD_DVD", but I guess this is all the beginning of the end for HD. It's a shame that all the Blu players are complete ****e. So...

blah blah blah... this type of talk is getting old for me...

Hopefully soon I can amass myself 100+ HD_DVDs for pennies on the dollar.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13119965
> 
> 
> That was me who did not receive a call back from Steve Fry.
> 
> I guess I'll try again when I get a chance.
> 
> 
> When you have RR, do you lease a box from TW? I'm thinking if I am going to get RR, then I will buy a used one off of eBay or buy my own box so I don't have to lease.



I suppose I can't comment on your exact TWC division, but most include it in their HSI fees and don't offer a discount for providing your own.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13120685
> 
> 
> Wal-Mart just announced (this morning) that they are going BR exclusive.
> 
> I absolutely love my "HD_DVD", but I guess this is all the beginning of the end for HD. It's a shame that all the Blu players are complete ****e. So...
> 
> blah blah blah... this type of talk is getting old for me...
> 
> Hopefully soon I can amass myself 100+ HD_DVDs for pennies on the dollar.



Oh I'm sure the HD-DVD prices will be just that in the coming weeks, especially once this become an "official" announcement and the mainstream media picks up on it. Watch those ebay prices PLUMMET!


Best Buy & NetFlix announced the same thing two weeks ago, going Blu-ray exclusive, shortly after the Warner studio announcement that they are dumping HD-DVD in favor of Blu-ray.


Toshiba (HD-DVD) cancelled their entire presentation at CES 08, they knew they were done.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Well, I don't know about "all that" Toby. They cancelled that CES presentation because Warner had just stabbed them in the back minutes beforehand.

Also, to correct you regarding WorstBuy, they are NOT going Blu exclusive, they are still selling HD. It's just that they are going to "push" Blu more because of... well, who knows exactly what Sony offered them. I know they already make a larger profit margin on BR than they do on HD. I'm sure that had something to do with it.


----------



## Smarty-pants

That's all I'll say about the "format war" here. Sorry for the off topic talk guys.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13120835
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know about "all that" Toby. They cancelled that CES presentation because Warner had just stabbed them in the back minutes beforehand.
> 
> Also, to correct you regarding WorstBuy, they are NOT going Blu exclusive, they are still selling HD. It's just that they are going to "push" Blu more because of... well, who knows exactly what Sony offered them. I know they already make a larger profit margin on BR than they do on HD. I'm sure that had something to do with it.



It's Best Buy being PC so as to not ruffle Toshiba's feathers and publicly "kick them when they are down". Pushing one format over the other may not be *exclusive* but it means they are putting Toshiba on the back shelf and steering customers to Blu-ray. Ask a Best Buy salesman "I'm thinking of going HD for DVD's, what should I be looking for?" and I'd bet that salesman would not even MENTION HD-DVD, once that policy was to go into effect.










It's all moot anyway with the (very soon) Toshiba announcement forthcoming.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13102331
> 
> 
> Does this mean you don't currently have an ATSC tuner on any of your TV's?
> 
> Your success with an amplifier on analog channels may or may not continue on the digital - especially WOIO which is the weakest of them all, and will continue to be after the transition.



Right now no, but I had done some tests with a borrowed HD set, from the roof no problem I will likely lose 32, 53 & 65 (which are weak analog, no big deal), from my attic setup is what my concern is, I will likely lose 19 (or 10) from my attic antenna as a regular station, & may lose a few others in adverse conditions. From my roof I'm up in the 80-90% on the locals except for 3 & 19... 3 should fix itself after the move to 17. Likely will also lose 23 from my roof, always a watchable signal (sometimes perfect) but never consistant, doubtfully will recieve a digital from them way up here... biggest loss.


I was in luck to purchase unit that still has the anntenna hooked up to it, when cable came in they cut off a lot of the units antenna wiring to make the unit owners dependent on them for any TV.


Also experimenting with the amps from my parents setup a few miles from me... the amp does make a big difference there, & eliminating the attic antenna & splitting the roof antenna also helped too.


----------



## nickdawg

Dear (CUSTOMER),


Have you ever thought of changing the way you view digital cable? With over 200 channels to choose from, making viewing decisions can sometimes be a challenge.


Luckily at Time Warner Cable, we think like you think and have listened to your feedback. That is why we have decided to arrange your Digital Cable channel lineup to make finding what you want to watch easier than ever. Look for these changes in the coming weeks.


We are arranging the channels above position 100 so that channels with similar programming will be grouped together by categories such as *News*, *Sports* and *Kids*. This setup not only gives you a single destination for your most desired shows, but also helps keep you aware of other similar programming that you might have missed.


You may notice that some fo the digital channels may be offeredon tiers which have different names than ou remember. You also may notice some great new channels in your area.


We are excited about these changes and invite you to learn more about them online or on your television. Details are available at http://www.twcguide.com or on channel position 399 once your lineup has changed.


Prior to the lineup changes, you'll receive another quick reminder letter that will include a printed copy of your new Digital Cable channel lineup. You should also find a copy of the new channel information in your billing statement, and your digital on-screen guide will reflect the changes as soon as your area is realigned.

*At the time of these changes, you may need to reprogram all of your settings. These settings include Parental Control, Blocked Channel, Favorite Channel, Reminder Timer and most scheduled DVR recordings.* You might also lose stored content on your DVR.


If you need more information on programming your settings, there are options for help:

*Consult the booklets that came with your digital cable box.


OR


*Visit http://www.twcguide.com for printable copies of guides for the various types of cable boxes we carry.


OR


*Go online to http://www.twcneo.com and look for Answers On Demand under Quick Links.


We apologize if this may cause soem confusion, but we are confident you will appreciate the benefits of this new lineup layout in the future.


Knowing you have options when it comes to purchasing the products that Time Warner Cable provies, we most sincerely appreciate your busines and look forward to serving you for many years to come.


Sincerely,

Steohen R Fry

President, Time Warner Cable

NE Ohio and Western PA Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand having to change channel settings amd recordings, since the channel numbers are changing. I want to know why THEIR cahnging fo the channel lineup might cause me to lose stored programming on MY DVR??














Channels have been added/deleted in the past and my saved shows were OK. Plus, it's on MY hard drive.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13116935
> 
> 
> With you being so close to the antenna farm putting your antennas in the attic may just work. I tried a directional outdoor antenna in the attic (as recommended by antennaweb.org) but ch 3 & ch 19 were very weak and lost their signals frequently. All of the other local ch's were very solid with signals at 75%. The attic walls & roof can diminish the signals by 50%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://antennasdirect.com/V15_vhf_antenna.html



Weather seems to have a greater affect on the attic antenna too, I'm in an aluminum sided structure but the antenna is well above that.


----------



## pbarach

I got the letter, too. It left out this crucial piece of information.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13122649
> 
> 
> I got the letter, too. It left out this crucial piece of information.



According to the programming notices, HGTV-HD, FOOD-HD, A&E-HD, HISTORY-HD are being added on or around March 4th. I'd assume the lineup might be changing then too. The letter was very vague. I still want to know why I might lose DVR shows.


----------



## nickdawg

 http://www.twcguide.com/media/inst-DVR.pdf 

http://www.twcguide.com/media/inst-settings.pdf 

http://www.twcguide.com/media/inst-pcontrol.pdf 


These are the three instruction manual PDFs at twcguide.com. Notice that they show the PASSPORT menu system. I thought TW was moving away from PASSPORT?


----------



## dleising

They are adding channels to the Expanded Basic positions as well. I wonder what is going on there...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13121895
> 
> 
> Right now no, but I had done some tests with a borrowed HD set, from the roof no problem *I will likely lose 32, 53 & 65* (which are weak analog, no big deal), from my attic setup is what my concern is, I will likely lose 19 (or 10) from my attic antenna as a regular station, & may lose a few others in adverse conditions. From my roof I'm up in the 80-90% on the locals except for 3 & 19... 3 should fix itself after the move to 17. Likely will also lose 23 from my roof, always a watchable signal (sometimes perfect) but never consistent, doubtfully will receive a digital from them way up here... biggest loss.
> 
> 
> I was in luck to purchase unit that still has the antenna hooked up to it, when cable came in they cut off a lot of the units antenna wiring to make the unit owners dependent on them for any TV.
> 
> 
> Also experimenting with the amps from my parents setup a few miles from me... the amp does make a big difference there, & eliminating the attic antenna & splitting the roof antenna also helped too.












You could get the "little 3" from Lake County! Wow! That's actually a good sign. It means the "ridge" is not blocking your view of at least one of the Parma towers (the "little 3" all reside on WBNX's stick). WOIO is right next door to WBNX on Ridgewood Dr. If you can get the LP's you may have better luck with WOIO-DT. Just be sure you have an extremely directional antenna since the interference form Canada will cause havoc wit WOIO in the warmer months ahead.


EDIT: I just reread your post. You mentioned 32 (I mistook it for 35). 35, 53, and 65 are on the WBNX tower. 32 OTOH is transmitted from the top of a building in Downtown Cleveland (somewhere around E 9th & Lakeside judging from the map on the FCC site). They had a C.P. to move to the WBNX stick however I see no sign that it ever happened (due to my poor reception of 32 in comparison to the other 3 LP's that I know are on WBNX's tower.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13122649
> 
> 
> I got the letter, too. It left out this crucial piece of information.



It says on the web site around March 4.


Take a look here .


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13122160
> 
> 
> Dear (CUSTOMER),
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I understand having to change channel settings amd recordings, since the channel numbers are changing. I want to know why THEIR cahnging fo the channel lineup might cause me to lose stored programming on MY DVR??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Channels have been added/deleted in the past and my saved shows were OK. Plus, it's on MY hard drive.



You think you will have problems? I can't imagine the havoc this will bring upon my S3.


I've already sent TiVo a "heads up" notice with the link in my previous post.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13122759
> 
> 
> According to the programming notices, HGTV-HD, FOOD-HD, A&E-HD, HISTORY-HD are being added on or around March 4th. I'd assume the lineup might be changing then too. The letter was very vague. I still want to know why I might lose DVR shows.



The letter is vague because the line up changes will still be different for some areas. For example in my area we have our HD in the 700's. Now there is a large area of Adelphia people who have their HD there. So they want to move the digital channels first.


BTW I got the letter too. IMHO all that letter will do is cause people who don't keep up with things like we do to call customer service and increase their call volume needlessly.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13127899
> 
> 
> The letter is vague because the line up changes will still be different for some areas. For example in my area we have our HD in the 700's. Now there is a large area of Adelphia people who have their HD there. So they want to move the digital channels first.
> 
> 
> BTW I got the letter too. IMHO all that letter will do is cause people who don't keep up with things like we do to call customer service and increase their call volume needlessly.



I don't know how this is going to work and TW is keeping us in the dark as usual. Some of us have HD in the 500s others in the 700s. It looks like everyone will have HD in the 400s when this is done. But how are they adding the HD channels? Will they be showing up in my current lineup and then move or will they show up when the lineup is changed? I want to see Racheal and Giada on FOOD HD































And I still want to know why they have passport manuals online when TW has talked about getting rid of Passport.


----------



## stuart628

nick, we know you are a passport supporter but Time warner is not going back to it, they have their in house stuff, and that is that, its a simple slip, not a sign.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13127871
> 
> 
> You think you will have problems? I can't imagine the havoc this will bring upon my S3.
> 
> 
> I've already sent TiVo a "heads up" notice with the link in my previous post.



Maybe not... If TiVo puts a little thought into how they remap the channels, it might go smoothly.


From what I've read about the TWC box internals, especially those running Navigator, I'd guess that the warning is being issued due to design goofs that can't be easily worked around. I've read a few articles that indicate when a significantly different version of the software is installed on the box (Passport to Navigator conversion, anyone?) , the hard drive is automatically formatted, losing all saved shows and schedules.


----------



## nickdawg

Interesting thought. It's been discussed that this Navigator conversion is supposed to be coming, yet nothing has been said about it. Are they going to change overnight without telling us? I can't wait to see the outrage over that one.


They have Passport PDFs on the new lineup site and also on demand. Tune to channel 1111, scroll to "For Customers" and press select. Scroll right to "Answers on Demand". All of the videos are for Passport and say they are available till 1/1 12:00AM(sounds like a generic date). There is more to this than they are telling us. Maybe they finally got are saving Passport??


ANd BTW, I am a PASSPORT fanboy!! But you already knew that


----------



## paule123

Noticed the "Between the Lines with Tom Beres" political discussion segment was in HD on the WKYC Sunday morning show today. Does this mean WKYC has upgraded another studio? Will we see HD at the "sports desk" on Sunday nights after the 11pm newscast ?


----------



## WKBN Chief

Back by popular demand, 27.3 WYFX-HD is up and running for the Daytona 500. It will be up until sometime after the race is over. At 9:00PM the HD programming starts on WKBN and it will definitely be returned to the normal state by then.


----------



## nosey313

nickdawg,


I had Passport when my wife and I lived in San Diego circa 2005. When we came back to Adelphia/Time Warner land, I began to really hate TWC due to Navigator software. If TWC were to change to Passport, I would give them credit for caring about DVR customers. However, since TWC is a soul-sucking anti-consumer company, I have no faith in them to ditch their horrible DVR software. IMHO, Tivo has the best software and the rest will always best second rate. The only thing that could save TWC, in my mind, is SDV and a new DVR interface (or using Tivo). Anything less than that is unacceptable and will guarantee me switching to satellite ASAP.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13137436
> 
> 
> nickdawg,
> 
> 
> I had Passport when my wife and I lived in San Diego circa 2005. When we came back to Adelphia/Time Warner land, I began to really hate TWC due to Navigator software. If TWC were to change to Passport, I would give them credit for caring about DVR customers. However, since TWC is a soul-sucking anti-consumer company, I have no faith in them to ditch their horrible DVR software. IMHO, Tivo has the best software and the rest will always best second rate. The only thing that could save TWC, in my mind, is SDV and a new DVR interface (or using Tivo). Anything less than that is unacceptable and will guarantee me switching to satellite ASAP.



You're not stuck with what they give you. Get a TiVo HD or TiVo S3. It will actually save you money in the long run. For more info on that go to the TiVo forum because I don't know the formula and never really cared about the cost. I had the SA 8300 with SARA and I was lucky if it even recorded what I wanted, let alone dealing with it's crummy interface and lackluster features, like it's almost non existant search.


I understand passport is a better software but since you can't have it do something about it.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13137502
> 
> 
> I understand passport is a better software but since you can't have it do something about it.



Was I complaining I couldn't do anything about it? If TWC doesn't do anything soon, I'll be going to satellite. I was simply stating that Navigator is inferior to most and Tivo is the best. FWIW, I just don't have $300 to plunk down on a Tivo anytime soon. Savings over the long term or whatever.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13137583
> 
> 
> Was I complaining I couldn't do anything about it? If TWC doesn't do anything soon, I'll be going to satellite. I was simply stating that Navigator is inferior to most and Tivo is the best. FWIW, I just don't have $300 to plunk down on a Tivo anytime soon. Savings over the long term or whatever.



To the best of my knowledge you still have to pay for a satellite HD DVR. It's only their regular DVR that's free.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13138953
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge you still have to pay for a satellite HD DVR. It's only their regular DVR that's free.


_Free?_ Well, that's interesting to me, because I have an SA8300HD from TWC (formerly Adelphia, here in the Cleveland east suburbs). This is the box I got when I ordered HD service. TWC told me it costs an additional monthly fee ($7) to turn on the DVR feature, and that's what their online rate card shows for my area.


----------



## nosey313

Yes, it's $99 (or if you find a willing CSR, it's $0). So $99 (or $0) is cheaper than $299.


----------



## stuart628

its not free for the dvr feature, I think Hookbill was saying you have upfront costs for a dvr, then a monthly fee, whereas with cable, its just a monthly fee.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13136417
> 
> 
> Noticed the "Between the Lines with Tom Beres" political discussion segment was in HD on the WKYC Sunday morning show today. Does this mean WKYC has upgraded another studio? Will we see HD at the "sports desk" on Sunday nights after the 11pm newscast ?



To answer my own question, WKYC's Sunday night sports show is indeed in HD tonight with a new set (at least new to me since I don't watch the 11pm news all that much) Nice upgrade!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13140655
> 
> 
> Yes, it's $99 (or if you find a willing CSR, it's $0). So $99 (or $0) is cheaper than $299.



Really. Well, first that's cheaper then it was two years ago when it was 389.00 and you had to get your HD locals OTA. *And if you can get it for free that's even better.*


That sounds like something Yogi Berra would say.










Hey, if I had a choice and could get D* that would be what I would go for. No doubt. I hear good things about their DVR and they are kicking tail on the HD front.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, I have a chainsaw you can borrow. I'll even help you, but I don't climb trees.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13140681
> 
> 
> its not free for the dvr feature, I think Hookbill was saying you have upfront costs for a dvr, then a monthly fee, whereas with cable, its just a monthly fee.



As I understood it you had to pay a one time "lease" fee for the dvr. When I was looking at it it was around 389.00, or maybe 289.00.


Anyway maybe they have dropped the price on it.


And as far as cable dvr there is a service fee and a monthly fee for the dvr itself. I think. At least that's the way it was on the day I dragged my SA 8300 back to their office tied to the back of my bumper.


Alright I know you're tired of that line. That will be the last time I use it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13146042
> 
> 
> Hook, I have a chainsaw you can borrow. I'll even help you, but I don't climb trees.



Smarty-pants you don't climb the tree. All you do is cut it.


Then you turn around and deal with my wife. Hope your insurance is paid up.


----------



## hookbill

I got a call from Time Warner today. It was a guy from their Akron office who told me his superiors had informed him that he was to come out to my house, install my upgraded modem and take the old one with him. I gave him directions, he said he'd be out between 2 and 4 today.


So once again, it's [email protected] .


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13146045
> 
> 
> As I understood it you had to pay a one time "lease" fee for the dvr. When I was looking at it it was around 389.00, or maybe 289.00.
> 
> 
> Anyway maybe they have dropped the price on it.
> 
> 
> And as far as cable dvr there is a service fee and a monthly fee for the dvr itself. I think. At least that's the way it was on the day I dragged my SA 8300 back to their office tied to the back of my bumper.
> 
> 
> Alright I know you're tired of that line. That will be the last time I use it.



about the dvr's you are right on the money....also I never tire of the line, I think its funny, but remember I am this [-] close to pulling the trigger on a tivo HD, I told my friends about selling my 360 to pay for it, they thought I was crazy as i already have a dvr they said, but I have had it freeze twice (once lost every other chanel then my on demands, then my hbos, then I only had two HD channels) so every time it does that plus we lost 7 minutes of lost because it thought it was time for a reboot, 2 minutes before the show!!! but its pushing me to get a tivo before the Dongle comes out and just saying screw On demand for a couple months.


----------



## jtscherne

This seems to have completely gone past the radar:

http://www.sportstimeohio.com/blogDetail.php?blgId=60 


Bruce Drennan in HD! Oh, Joy!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13154660
> 
> 
> This seems to have completely gone past the radar:
> 
> http://www.sportstimeohio.com/blogDetail.php?blgId=60
> 
> 
> Bruce Drennan in HD! Oh, Joy!



We are pleased to announce that Armstrong, Buckeye CableSystem, Cox Communications, GLW Broadband, Insight Communications *and most Time Warner Cable systems* have agreed to carry STO HD full-time.


It seems like TW never likes to make anything perfectly clear. OK, they didn't make the announcement but what the heck does that really mean? As it stands right now it's on a "shared" HD channel.


I think I'll email STO for a clarification. If that doesn't work I guess I can send an email to my good buddy Steve Fry.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13154660
> 
> 
> This seems to have completely gone past the radar:
> 
> http://www.sportstimeohio.com/blogDetail.php?blgId=60
> 
> 
> Bruce Drennan in HD! Oh, Joy!



Great news! The upcoming baseball season can't come soon enough and this is definitely welcoming news to the Tribe nation! STO has grown exponentially in it's 2 years of existence. Kudos!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13147603
> 
> 
> about the dvr's you are right on the money....also I never tire of the line, I think its funny, but remember I am this [-] close to pulling the trigger on a tivo HD, I told my friends about selling my 360 to pay for it, they thought I was crazy as i already have a dvr they said, but I have had it freeze twice (once lost every other chanel then my on demands, then my hbos, then I only had two HD channels) so every time it does that plus we lost 7 minutes of lost because it thought it was time for a reboot, 2 minutes before the show!!! but its pushing me to get a tivo before the Dongle comes out and just saying screw On demand for a couple months.



Your friends have probably never seen a TiVo so they don't know the difference. But the reasons you state were all the reasons I shelled out the full 900 bucks to get an S3 as soon as it came out.


It's just frustrating when a DVR won't do the basic thing you want it to do and that's record a show. I could put up with crappy interface and lackluster programming features but not doing the basic job of recording a scheduled show is what frustrated me the most.


As far as On Demand goes, I think the jury is still out as to whether or not the USB will be able to do that. I would think it should but I'm not certain. If On Demand really is important to you then tell TW that you want a HD only box. I don't think they have those anymore but I do believe that they won't charge you for the DVR service if you just keep it for HD receiving only.


----------



## jtscherne

Hopefully D* will commit to carrying the full time station. Supposedly there's a placeholder for the channel as a game only channel (657-1), so I'm sure we'll get the games, but it would be better to get the whole thing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13155084
> 
> 
> Great news! The upcoming baseball season can't come soon enough and this is definitely welcoming news to the Tribe nation! STO has grown exponentially in it's 2 years of existence. Kudos!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13130981
> 
> 
> I don't know how this is going to work and TW is keeping us in the dark as usual. Some of us have HD in the 500s others in the 700s. It looks like everyone will have HD in the 400s when this is done. But how are they adding the HD channels? Will they be showing up in my current lineup and then move or will they show up when the lineup is changed? I want to see Racheal and Giada on FOOD HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I still want to know why they have passport manuals online when TW has talked about getting rid of Passport.



Sorry to disappoint Nickdawg, but Food HD is has an entirely different programming/scheduling lineup than Food SD. And as of now, Rachael Ray does not have any HD exclusive shows (personally I'm not a big fan, so I am quite happy with this).


Now as for Giada, she can be seen in anyone of her various HD shows such as "Giada's Weekend Getaways" and "Everyday Italian".


As for a substitution for Rachael Ray, I do suggest you try "Semi-Homemade Cooking with Sandra Lee". Sandra translates pretty decently to High Def....


----------



## jtscherne

Actually they've begun to show 30 Minute Meals in HD (it started right after the first of the year). Here's this week's schedule as a sample:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/hdtv..._26756,00.html 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13155173
> 
> 
> Sorry to disappoint Nickdawg, but Food HD is has an entirely different programming/scheduling lineup than Food SD. And as of now, Rachael Ray does not have any HD exclusive shows (personally I'm not a big fan, so I am quite happy with this).
> 
> 
> Now as for Giada, she can be seen in anyone of her various HD shows such as "Giada's Weekend Getaways" and "Everyday Italian".
> 
> 
> As for a substitution for Rachael Ray, I do suggest you try "Semi-Homemade Cooking with Sandra Lee". Sandra translates pretty decently to High Def....


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13155103
> 
> 
> Hopefully D* will commit to carrying the full time station. Supposedly there's a placeholder for the channel as a game only channel (657-1), so I'm sure we'll get the games, but it would be better to get the whole thing.



Completely agree. I'd imagine STO going "full-time" HD would give D* all the more incentive to dedicate their own full time channel for them as well.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13155192
> 
> 
> Actually they've begun to show 30 Minute Meals in HD (it started right after the first of the year). Here's this week's schedule as a sample:
> 
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/hdtv..._26756,00.html



Woops. I stand corrected. I had no idea Rachael Ray (30 Minute Meals) went HD. All the merrier I guess.....


----------



## paule123

More Northeastern Ohio Customers Gain Video Choice, Innovative Features with AT&T U-verse TV


U-verse TV and Suite of New Interactive Features Now Available to More Than 135,000 Living Units


Cleveland, Ohio, Sunnyvale, California, February 19, 2008


More northeastern Ohio residents and their televisions can break free from cable. AT&T Inc. (NYSE:T) today announced that AT&T U-verseSM TV and Internet services are now available to more than 135,000 living units in and around the Cleveland and Akron areas.


Since introducing U-verse TV services in the Cleveland area in June 2007, AT&T has made the service available to more northeastern Ohio customers on an ongoing basis. U-verse TV is offered today in parts of more than 65 communities, including Akron, Canton, Cleveland and Mentor. There are plans to continue reaching even more customers.


In addition, northeastern Ohio customers can now enjoy a suite of new U-verse TV features currently available for all local U-verse TV customers at no extra charge that further differentiate the service from cable, including:


* AT&T U-bar, which brings customizable weather, stock, sports and traffic information to the U-verse TV screen, without interrupting the current program. Customers who also subscribe to AT&T Yahoo! High Speed Internet can personalize the U-bar from their AT&T Yahoo! home page to display weather at specific locations, their personal stock portfolio and scores for their favorite sports teams.

* YELLOWPAGES.COM TV, which lets U-verse TV customers easily search for local businesses and other information via their TV screen.

* AT&T Yahoo! Games, so U-verse TV customers can now play their favorite online games including Sudoku, Solitaire, JT's Blocks, Mah-jongg Tiles and Chess on the TV screen.


"Now more northeastern Ohio consumers can see why U-verse TV is such a compelling video choice," said Steve Mitchell, AT&T vice president and general manager for Ohio. "We're offering unmatched features, more HD channels than the local cable providers and all the Big Ten Network sports action that Ohio fans could want."


AT&T is the only national provider to offer a 100 percent Internet Protocol-based television (IPTV) service, making AT&T U-verse TV one of the most advanced television offerings available anywhere. AT&T is deploying next-generation video services, including AT&T U-verse TV, to connect people with their world, everywhere they live and work, and do it better than anyone else.


Customers who want additional information on AT&T U-verse TV or to find out if it's available in their area can visit http://uverse.att.com . They can also stop by the nearest AT&T retail location to learn more. To find the closest store, visit http://www.wireless.att.com/find-a-store/ .

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=25196


----------



## hookbill

1. Not available in my area and I had to put my whole address in. Junk mail will be arriving shortly.









2. Still only 1 HD channel at a time?


They have a thing to fill out if you're interested in availability to contact you but I'll know when it's available. I'll just look for the weird box at the end of my street.


And that's still if it will become available. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't other then the fact that I'm in "Windstream" area. I would think the law they pushed through the state would still make them able to come in this area, but if they are using phone lines to tansmit this stuff I doubt Windstream will let them do that.


I don't know, it's all complicated.


----------



## paule123

I thought it was funny they were boasting about availability to 135,000 living units. Sorry, but that doesn't seem like a whole hell of a lot for a metro area with what, 3 million people ?


BTW, I see that they now offer a new higher speed internet tier of 10Mbps down/1.5 up. I wonder how they found more bandwidth for that but still can't do any more HD streams.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I see crews constructing boxes next to the current telco boxes in my neighborhood this week. I wonder how long it will be before they "turn it on".


I wonder if all phone lines will eventually go through the "lightspeed" boxes, or only the newer services (TV/Internet)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13161404
> 
> 
> I see crews constructing boxes next to the current telco boxes in my neighborhood this week. I wonder how long it will be before they "turn it on".



I'll bet you do, that's all AT&T country where you live. I'm in Bainbridge.


I've never understood this "territory" stuff. Years ago they deregulated phone companies. At that time I lived in California so I thought that meant you would have a choice on how you could get your phone service. Remember, we're talking land line.


But that never happened. I couldn't get AT&T phone service here, I had to use Alltel (now Windstream). Matter of fact the only other service for land line phone that I see offered is that 1.800.4 a phone. Basically for people who didn't pay their bill and have no credit. And I'm not sure if they could give me a phone.


Same thing with cable. When cable was deregulated it was suppose to encourage competition. Didn't like TW, try WOW. But then our local communities made deals so we were still stuck with only one choice in most areas.


Now this other law allowing "competition" has been passed but so far the only competition is AT&T, who helped push the bill through. Why can't WOW come in my area. Or Comcast? Or Armstrong?


I don't get it.


----------



## jtscherne

I wonder whether the Uverse work is helping the regular DSL users too. Up until recently, I consistently was unable to get the highest speed DSL at my house (called Elite by ATT). Today I went to the website and was given the option for the faster speed! I'll do some testing to make sure I actually get it!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, they can come and service you anytime they want to. The hang-up is, they have to install from scratch in your area. That costs loads of money. No one is willing to pay more than what they are now, so to recoup all those costs that "said company" had to fork out will take years. Apparantly, they're just not willing to make that investment.


----------



## dleising

Well, I went to the Kent TW office today with much better luck. The reps were MUCH friendlier and I got everything I needed. The rep also threw in Showtime and Cinemax for the same price I was paying for just HBO (now I get all 3). She also bumped me up to RR Turbo. I would recommend anyone going to that store if you are in the Kent area (its right off of SR 59).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13161857
> 
> 
> Well, I went to the Kent TW office today with much better luck. The reps were MUCH friendlier and I got everything I needed. The rep also threw in Showtime and Cinemax for the same price I was paying for just HBO (now I get all 3). She also bumped me up to RR Turbo. I would recommend anyone going to that store if you are in the Kent area (its right off of SR 59).



Is the Showtime and Cinemax temporary or permanent?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13161857
> 
> 
> Well, I went to the Kent TW office today with much better luck. The reps were MUCH friendlier and I got everything I needed. The rep also threw in Showtime and Cinemax for the same price I was paying for just HBO (now I get all 3). She also bumped me up to RR Turbo. I would recommend anyone going to that store if you are in the Kent area (its right off of SR 59).



I had to click on your prior threads to see what the heck you were talking about. You wanted like 3 boxes, right and they wanted to charge you for each one?


How could you get Showtime and Cinemax free? Has to be temporary or part of a package or the girl really liked you.


Was she good looking?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13161669
> 
> 
> Hook, they can come and service you anytime they want to. The hang-up is, they have to install from scratch in your area. That costs loads of money. No one is willing to pay more than what they are now, so to recoup all those costs that "said company" had to fork out will take years. Apparantly, they're just not willing to make that investment.



Now who are you talking about? AT&T or other cable companies or both?


I'm in a confused mode right now. I think I need a reboot.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13162002
> 
> 
> Now who are you talking about? AT&T or other cable companies or both?
> 
> 
> I'm in a confused mode right now. I think I need a reboot.



Anyone. They can route whatever they want to your house.

Where is the closest place that has XY-cable... 25 miles away. That means they have to install 25 miles of lines, equipment, wires to get XY-cable to you. That costs tons of money and they are not willing to spend it unless they are pretty sure that they are going to gain enough customers along the way to pay for all that "install".


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13161669
> 
> 
> Hook, they can come and service you anytime they want to. The hang-up is, they have to install from scratch in your area. That costs loads of money. No one is willing to pay more than what they are now, so to recoup all those costs that "said company" had to fork out will take years. Apparantly, they're just not willing to make that investment.



Are you referring to the fiber lines they have to install? I've seen phone company trucks around in Summit County installing new cables on the poles, probably for Uverse.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13161985
> 
> 
> I had to click on your prior threads to see what the heck you were talking about. You wanted like 3 boxes, right and they wanted to charge you for each one?
> 
> 
> How could you get Showtime and Cinemax free? Has to be temporary or part of a package or the girl really liked you.
> 
> 
> Was she good looking?



She was pretty good looking







. Anyway, the premiums are for one year, as is the entire package. I already have 2 boxes, one HD. I inquired about a third but they are dead out of the non DVR HD boxes. Although she said again that an additional HD DVR box would be 15 dollars a month (which still baffles me, thats alot) I wasn't going to get into that though because she was cool to me.


I left with:


RR Turbo, and new modem (I had DSL and am switching)

The premiums (HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and the according HD channels, respectively)


I had (and still have):


2 boxes, one HD, one not

HDTV tier

HBO


I was spending close to 70 bucks a month for what I had, so in my opinion getting what I got for only about 30 bucks more (its going to be about a hundy a month for everything) is a pretty good deal in my opinion.


----------



## nickdawg









Wait till that year is over, you'll be in for a BIG shock!!










I won't even give Time Warner the time of day for their internet service unless they can beat SBC's $19.95.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13162697
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait till that year is over, you'll be in for a BIG shock!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I won't even give Time Warner the time of day for their internet service unless they can beat SBC's $19.95.



I know. I asked her what would happen after the year. She told me to call back and ask for another rebundle of services. I assume I can get the same sort of deal if not better in a year. Plus I am starting to like this RR turbo, 13 Megs down!


And... http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,2670897.story


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13162776
> 
> 
> I know. I asked her what would happen after the year. She told me to call back and ask for another rebundle of services. *I assume* I can get the same sort of deal if not better in a year. Plus I am starting to like this RR turbo, 13 Megs down!
> 
> 
> And... http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,2670897.story




Heh Heh Heh. Of course she told you that. And there are packages available but not anywhere near what your getting now.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13166927
> 
> 
> Heh Heh Heh. Of course she told you that. And there are packages available but not anywhere near what your getting now.



Then I'll drop the premiums I got (i didn't really want them to begin with, besides HBO) or the "Turbo" part of RR. Eh, I'll deal with it in a year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13168610
> 
> 
> Then I'll drop the premiums I got (i didn't really want them to begin with, besides HBO) or the "Turbo" part of RR. Eh, I'll deal with it in a year.



Yep, that's what I did and as far as the Turbo goes this is what they use to check the speed. It only shows download speed, not upload. Also notice that it goes to Cincinnati, not really around here. Really the only reason I have turbo is because I've got computers networked, TiVo, and I have VOIP.


When I didn't have the "turbo" I did notice that things slowed down a bit but everything worked just fine.


----------



## HD MM

To my fellow D* subs and/or golf enthusiasts, DirecTV will be offering a unique experience and coverage for this year's Masters Tournament. D* will feature an exclusive dedicated channel that will be an interactive multi-screen coverage of this year's Tourney!

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...80&newsLang=en 


From above link......


The Masters Mix Channel will be available on DIRECTV channels 701 (standard-definition) and *706 (high-definition)* and will offer the following views within a single screen, including:


* View One – CBS and ESPN’s live coverage of the Tournament.

* View Two – “Today’s Highlights” offers a continuously updating loop of the best shots from the day’s play with voice-over providing context and commentary.

* View Three – “Amen Corner” provides complete coverage of the most famous stretch – holes 11, 12 and 13 – of Augusta National Golf Club. The channel will provide a continuous view of play as the field challenges this most treacherous part of the course.

* View Four – Holes 15 (the par 5 Firethorn) and 16 (the par 3 Redbud) spotlights this especially difficult part of the course, which can make or break a golfer’s round.


Here's an example of a screen shot...











Personally, I may not be moving from the HT the entire weekend of April 10-13th...


----------



## hookbill

HD MM


There are alot of sports I don't watch and only really a few I do. I love baseball and football. I can watch basketball, but usually I'll fall asleep unless I'm at the game. I can watch beach volleyball. I can look at nascar though I don't understand anything it's kind of fun to watch in HD.


But golf? I don't get it. I just don't see what is so exciting about hitting a ball that isn't moving. Now I'm not talking about playing. I'm talking about watching.


I certainly wish I had D* for all the great HD channels they are offering, but you couldn't pay me to sit through that.


Now I say this because I want to know what the appeal is. I've often wondered who watches golf and I'd like to know why. And with the excitement you have of this upcoming event perhaps you can explain it to me.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13173042
> 
> 
> HD MM
> 
> 
> There are alot of sports I don't watch and only really a few I do. I love baseball and football. I can watch basketball, but usually I'll fall asleep unless I'm at the game. I can watch beach volleyball. I can look at nascar though I don't understand anything it's kind of fun to watch in HD.
> 
> 
> But golf? I don't get it. I just don't see what is so exciting about hitting a ball that isn't moving. Now I'm not talking about playing. I'm talking about watching.
> 
> 
> I certainly wish I had D* for all the great HD channels they are offering, but you couldn't pay me to sit through that.
> 
> 
> Now I say this because I want to know what the appeal is. I've often wondered who watches golf and I'd like to know why. And with the excitement you have of this upcoming event perhaps you can explain it to me.



Hookster,


Please let me explain the appeal of Golf and it being available in HD.........


-The outdoor rolling landscapes of the various golf courses throughout the PGA Tour are quite enjoyable to look at in HD. The types of courses that the professionals play are like works of art. Having the ability to watch in HD allows me to see famous courses that I normally wouldn't see or play as an armature in stunning clarity and as if I was actually there in person. Quite simply, watching The Masters in HD is the next best thing to being at Augusta, Georgia and smelling the azalea's in person!


-As I mentioned before, I am a fan of the game and players. For an individual sport, I appreciate the competitiveness and history books that a certain player is chasing (Mr. Woods).


-The sport of golf is a cerebral experience of man vs. nature. The winner of a tournament is based on the grueling mental and physical challenge that is posed over 4 days. To me, the winner of this simplistic outdoor sport with great history is quite unique to any other sport out there.


And that my friend, is a few reasons why I enjoy the game of golf and am looking forward to the first major of the year; The Master's!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13173788
> 
> 
> Hookster,
> 
> 
> Please let me explain the appeal of Golf and it being available in HD.........
> 
> 
> -The outdoor rolling landscapes of the various golf courses throughout the PGA Tour are quite enjoyable to look at in HD. The types of courses that the professionals play are like works of art. Having the ability to watch in HD allows me to see famous courses that I normally wouldn't see or play as an armature in stunning clarity and as if I was actually there in person. Quite simply, watching The Masters in HD is the next best thing to being at Augusta, Georgia and smelling the azalea's in person!
> 
> 
> -As I mentioned before, I am a fan of the game and players. For an individual sport, I appreciate the competitiveness and history books that a certain player is chasing (Mr. Woods).
> 
> 
> -The sport of golf is a cerebral experience of man vs. nature. The winner of a tournament is based on the grueling mental and physical challenge that is posed over 4 days. To me, the winner of this simplistic outdoor sport with great history is quite unique to any other sport out there.
> 
> 
> And that my friend, is a few reasons why I enjoy the game of golf and am looking forward to the first major of the year; The Master's!



Now I could bet you would mention the landscape and such in HD. Even I can understand that.


And I don't think it's a simplistic sport. I understand the skill it takes to play the game. But I don't play and maybe that's why I don't get it.


Then again I don't play football or baseball anymore either, but I did as a kid. I've only golfed once in my life, when I was 16 and I just didn't find it very fun.


So I'll bet you play. I would think that people who play, and I know there are millions who do are probably the one's that appreciate it on TV.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13161594
> 
> 
> I'll bet you do, that's all AT&T country where you live. I'm in Bainbridge.
> 
> 
> I've never understood this "territory" stuff. Years ago they deregulated phone companies. At that time I lived in California so I thought that meant you would have a choice on how you could get your phone service. Remember, we're talking land line.
> 
> 
> But that never happened. I couldn't get AT&T phone service here, I had to use Alltel (now Windstream). Matter of fact the only other service for land line phone that I see offered is that 1.800.4 a phone. Basically for people who didn't pay their bill and have no credit. And I'm not sure if they could give me a phone.
> 
> 
> Same thing with cable. When cable was deregulated it was suppose to encourage competition. Didn't like TW, try WOW. But then our local communities made deals so we were still stuck with only one choice in most areas.
> 
> 
> Now this other law allowing "competition" has been passed but so far the only competition is AT&T, who helped push the bill through. Why can't WOW come in my area. Or Comcast? Or Armstrong?
> 
> 
> I don't get it.



Get this, because I'm in AT&T territory I can chose another local phone company and AT&T still has to maintain the lines! It's similar to getting your gas or electric from another company, only better in that with gas & electric you still get a bill from Columbia or Dominion or First Energy, while with the local land line company I never see a bill from AT&T, only a smaller bill for equivalent service from a competing company.


This service is available in Summit county, but only for those with AT&T. Summit has some strange divisions in their telco lines (Verizon has the west suburbs of Akron, Windstream has the northern suburbs etc.). AT&T is usually found in the older neighborhoods, Those other (smaller) telcos reside in formerly rural areas. Now that these areas have built-up, perhaps AT&T will get the incentive to expand, and compete with, Windstream and Verizion. How long that will take is pure speculation. It's not impossible, and the fact that the smaller companies are surrounded by AT&T lines may actually make it practicable some day.


Geauga also has some limited AT&T presence in Chesterland and Burton (many years ago the government made Ohio Bell service those rural areas in an attempt to improve rural telephone service). So even in Bainbridge there is hope!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13174196
> 
> 
> This service is available in Summit county, but only for those with AT&T. Summit has some strange divisions in their telco lines (Verizon has the west suburbs of Akron, Windstream has the northern suburbs etc.).



Of course, today's Verizon subscribers out west of Akron were once GTE subscribers. And as hookbill has already pointed out, Windstream is the former Alltel landline division.


I lived out in "GenTel" territory in eastern Medina County a number of years back. It was awful. Long after Ohio Bell had implemented touch tone dialing, GTE was actually using equipment that converted touch tones to pulse dialing!


And the line quality? Well, I'm guessing those noises I heard on the line were probably the squirrels eating the lines.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13161594
> 
> 
> I've never understood this "territory" stuff. Years ago they deregulated phone companies. At that time I lived in California so I thought that meant you would have a choice on how you could get your phone service. Remember, we're talking land line.
> 
> 
> But that never happened. I couldn't get AT&T phone service here, I had to use Alltel (now Windstream).
> 
> ...
> 
> Same thing with cable. When cable was deregulated it was suppose to encourage competition. Didn't like TW, try WOW.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now this other law allowing "competition" has been passed but so far the only competition is AT&T, who helped push the bill through. Why can't WOW come in my area. Or Comcast? Or Armstrong?
> 
> 
> I don't get it.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13174196
> 
> 
> Get this, because I'm in AT&T territory I can chose another local phone company and AT&T still has to maintain the lines! It's similar to getting your gas or electric from another company, only better in that with gas & electric you still get a bill from Columbia or Dominion or First Energy, while with the local land line company I never see a bill from AT&T, only a smaller bill for equivalent service from a competing company.


_I've been dealing with this for many years, a boatload of phone companies, and a ton of phone lines spread out all over Ohio and West Virginia. This is what I've learned._


The deregulation basically allows any phone company to provide services wherever they want. When a CLEC (new telco to the area) decides to provide service to an area, they have two choices:


1. Build out an entire infrastructure covering the area - apply for the necessary permits, install boxes all over the place, and run hundreds of miles of cable. Very expensive.


2. Lease existing lines from the ILEC (phone company already established in the area). This is much more affordable, but the CLEC needs to rely on the ILEC to maintain the lines. The deregulation rules require the ILEC to allow the CLEC to lease their copper, provided the CLEC has the equipment in place to provide the service.


Option 1 almost never happens - it's way too expensive for most telcos, since they have no guarantee they'll be able to recover the cost.


Option 2 requires the CLEC to install switching equipment close enough to the ILEC central office to provide the service reliably. The ILEC provides the copper, but the CLEC needs to provide the actual service. Given that DSL doesn't travel more than around 18,000 feet of cable and POTS lines are limited by a logarithmic formula based on quality of the copper, this limits the CLEC in the area that can be serviced based on where their switching equipment is installed. (More simply, a CLEC can't install equipment in Cleveland and expect to service Canton just by leasing lines - just doesn't work that way.)


I could go on, but this is getting pretty wordy...


The same rules basically apply to cable companies. The problem for them is that option 2 really doesn't exist - the coax can't be easily shared between two cable providers, which pretty much requires a new cable company to run their own lines everywhere.


FYI:


CLEC - Competitive Local Exchange Carrier

ILEC - Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier

POTS - Plain Old Telephone Service (your average phone line)


Mike


----------



## rek 50

"I'll bet you do, that's all AT&T country where you live. I'm in Bainbridge.


I've never understood this "territory" stuff. Years ago they deregulated phone companies. At that time I lived in California so I thought that meant you would have a choice on how you could get your phone service. Remember, we're talking land line.


But that never happened. I couldn't get AT&T phone service here, I had to use Alltel (now Windstream). Matter of fact the only other service for land line phone that I see offered is that 1.800.4 a phone. Basically for people who didn't pay their bill and have no credit. And I'm not sure if they could give me a phone.


Same thing with cable. When cable was deregulated it was suppose to encourage competition. Didn't like TW, try WOW. But then our local communities made deals so we were still stuck with only one choice in most areas.


Now this other law allowing "competition" has been passed but so far the only competition is AT&T, who helped push the bill through. Why can't WOW come in my area. Or Comcast? Or Armstrong?


I don't get it."


It's simple, Decisions disguised as Democracy do NOT empower the people, but rather continue the privilige of a few........The preservation of privilige requires the excercise of power......The power to inform or dis-inform.....continuing the perpetually rejuvenated illusion of choice.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ohoooo-kay...


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13176394
> 
> 
> I lived out in "GenTel" territory in eastern Medina County a number of years back. It was awful. Long after Ohio Bell had implemented touch tone dialing, GTE was actually using equipment that converted touch tones to pulse dialing!
> 
> 
> And the line quality? Well, I'm guessing those noises I heard on the line were probably the squirrels eating the lines.



In 1975 I was in college and living at home, my family moved from west Akron to Granger Township in Medina county. I was stunned to learn that they were still on party lines. It's a strange feeling when you pick up the phone to make a call and you hear one of your neighbors talking. As I remember, it actually took a few years before we got a private line. I always thought that GTE seemed to be stuck in the stone age.


----------



## Rbuchina

TWC updated Road Runner overnight with a new appearance to the Web Mail page. Unfortunatly all E-mail in my inbox was lost. My wive called me at work and just got off the phone trying to get some explaination. Apparentlly everyone lost there mail. I told her calm down. Hopefully they figure out how to recover the lost e-mail in a few days. My wife worked in IS for years and said she would have been fired if she put in a new system with this kind of result. Perhaps she should apply at TWC/RR


Ray


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/13179219
> 
> 
> TWC updated Road Runner overnight with a new appearance to the Web Mail page.
> 
> 
> Ray




Apparently they haven't moved all of their subscribers to this new webmail page yet. I was on adelphia's email servers, and my web mail page (which is a roadrunner.com page) is unchanged.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13179603
> 
> 
> Apparently they haven't moved all of their subscribers to this new webmail page yet. I was on adelphia's email servers, and my web mail page (which is a roadrunner.com page) is unchanged.



I'm in Mentor. I spoke with someone I work with from the Akron area and he is OK too. I cant wait to see how the first week of March goes with the channel lineup changes due.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/13179219
> 
> 
> TWC updated Road Runner overnight with a new appearance to the Web Mail page. Unfortunatly all E-mail in my inbox was lost. My wive called me at work and just got off the phone trying to get some explaination. Apparentlly everyone lost there mail. I told her calm down. Hopefully they figure out how to recover the lost e-mail in a few days. My wife worked in IS for years and said she would have been fired if she put in a new system with this kind of result. Perhaps she should apply at TWC/RR
> 
> 
> Ray



Why use Road Runner? I use G Mail. I also use it as my client.


Yeah there are one or two things you can't do maybe but for them most part it's reliable.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Same thing with cable. When cable was deregulated it was suppose to encourage competition. Didn't like TW, try WOW. But then our local communities made deals so we were still stuck with only one choice in most areas.



The true story of why there is no WOW in Parma today:

Before WOW was WOW it was Amreicast, as in Ameritech's attempt to get into the cable TV business as an overbuilder. This was around the same time as the 216 area code split. Parma which is served by 3 different central offices was going to be split between 216 and 440. The mayor would not give Americast a franchise to operate cable in Parma unless all of Parma stayed in 216. Ameritech countered that they had no say in the determination of where the area code split was to happen (it was a "committee" of citizens that determined the a/c split, I bet all of the exchanges where the committee lived stayed in 216 - how else could you explain places like Hunting Valley staying in 216, so far away from the central city).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13180419
> 
> 
> Why use Road Runner? I use G Mail. I also use it as my client.
> 
> 
> Yeah there are one or two things you can't do maybe but for them most part it's reliable.



The other upside to using a non-provider based email system is not being tied to your HSI provider.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13180789
> 
> 
> The other upside to using a non-provider based email system is not being tied to your HSI provider.



Yep, we are in the process of changing ISPs and it will be a hassle moving everything from the email they gave us to new ones. I am moving everyone in our house to GMail, like myself. Not being tied to an ISP for email is pretty important. I think Gmail is better anyway...


----------



## HD MM

Attn: local D* subs.....


I was just flipping through DirecTV's guide data on my HR20 and noticed on FSN-OH HD (channel 637-1) there was a message for "Upcoming: The Assasination of Jesse James" movie! Well, I arrowed forward until Saturday February 23nd and sure enough, it lists the HD showing of Jesse James at 12am! This is significant since this movie just came out Feb. 5th and I've never seen FSN show movies. Is this some kind of error? I'm having enough trouble trying to rent this Blu-Ray from Blockbuster Online and to be able to have a new release available through D*'s local RSN programming is quite exciting. Anyone have any ideas if this is for real?


----------



## terryfoster

It's either a data error or a PPV offering being sent on the FSN-OH part time HD stream. I wouldn't get too excited.


----------



## Smarty-pants

If I had money to burn, I'd bet it on the fact that the guide data is a mistake.


----------



## jtscherne

If you look through the guide, you'll see PPV movies in a number of the -1 HD RSN channels. I have also seen them during off periods in the NHL & NBA channels.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster*  /forum/post/13184839
> 
> 
> It's either a data error or a PPV offering being sent on the FSN-OH part time HD stream. I wouldn't get too excited.


----------



## TV21CHIEF

I got my hands on the Zenith coupon eligible converter box. So far it has been very impressive. I have one TV in my kitchen with the rod type rabbit ears that they used to ship with the TV. They are on a plastic post that slips into a hole on the back of the set.


Last night I took the Zenith stb home and attached it to the kitchen TV. I didn't touch the alignment of the antenna and used the RF out of the stb on ch 3 into the TV.


I live about 6 miles from WFMJ, WYTV, WKBN and about 15 miles from WNEO. I am able to get slightly ghosty pictures from the Youngstown stations and a very snowy picture from WNEO in Salem. I have to adjust the antenna for each station otherwise the picture fades, ghosts, and the audio gets noisey when I move around the kitchen.


After the Zenith did it's auto scan I was able to get all the above stations perfectly with no breakups without moving the antenna. The Zenith has a signal meter that showed almost full scale in the "GOOD" zone on all channels. I adjusted the rabbit ears to optimize the digital signal level and got pretty much unwatchable pictures on analog.


In other words the Zenith box impressed me. It has RF out and video/stereo audio outputs. The EPG is simple and shows "now" and "next". It has all the closed captioning. It does NOT have an analog tuner and does NOT have a QAM tuner. It's also pretty small - about 9" wide and 6" deep. It does come with a remote which I think can be programmed to your TV set, but I haven't done that, mainly because I didn't read the manual.


----------



## terryfoster

Your reception description is confusing. Were you using the Zenith box when you had the snowy, ghosty, and fade or were you describing how your analog tuner performed in the kitchen tv and how the PQ improved with the Zenith box?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13191305
> 
> 
> Your reception description is confusing. Were you using the Zenith box when you had the snowy, ghosty, and fade or were you describing how your analog tuner performed in the kitchen tv and how the PQ improved with the Zenith box?



I was describing how the PQ improved. Since it's only a digital tuner, you don't get snow or ghosts.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13191635
> 
> 
> I was describing how the PQ improved. Since it's only a digital tuner, you don't get snow or ghosts.



Yes, I understand, which is why I was confused why you may have been describing those issues with a digital tuner.


----------



## Ben Music

If you look closely to that Sat night discription of Jesse James on STO, you will see a small $ sign. My guess is that it is a PPV, but they don't show a price.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill

If you're looking for answers for what's going to happen in your particular area a call to customer service won't be necessary. That's because I just tried and the very nice person I talked to said there is going to be a change, when it happens they don't know, it will affect all areas.


So, based on that statement I would think that we will soon all be on the same channels. I'm betting it doesn't happen to former Adelphia customers. At least not by March 4.


He said he may know a bit more around March 4. I will try some of my contacts as we get a bit closer and see what I can find out.


As a TiVo owner the good news is if they do a massive channel change and they use the lineup that they have posted here it shouldn't be too difficult to get TiVo to do the changes.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13193614
> 
> 
> If you're looking for answers for what's going to happen in your particular area a call to customer service won't be necessary. That's because I just tried and the very nice person I talked to said there is going to be a change, when it happens they don't know, it will affect all areas.
> 
> 
> So, based on that statement I would think that we will soon all be on the same channels. I'm betting it doesn't happen to former Adelphia customers. At least not by March 4.
> 
> 
> He said he may know a bit more around March 4. I will try some of my contacts as we get a bit closer and see what I can find out.
> 
> 
> As a TiVo owner the good news is if they do a massive channel change and they use the lineup that they have posted here it shouldn't be too difficult to get TiVo to do the changes.



The rep at the Kent TW office told me "Mid-March", but the website said the 4th, so we will have to wait and see...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13191193
> 
> 
> In other words the Zenith box impressed me. It has RF out and video/stereo audio outputs. The EPG is simple and shows "now" and "next". It has all the closed captioning. It does NOT have an analog tuner and does NOT have a QAM tuner. It's also pretty small - about 9" wide and 6" deep. It does come with a remote which I think can be programmed to your TV set, but I haven't done that, mainly because I didn't read the manual.



Interesting review... thanks. They must be using a Gen5 (or better) tuner in there to get such good results.


I recall that Zenith has always jumped into new broadcast technologies with both feet. IIRC, they were one of the creators of MTS stereo, and they had a lot of input into the ATSC standards. I'm sure that today's Zenith is nothing like the old company (_the quality goes in before the name goes on_), but it's nice to know that they're still out there in some form.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13194610
> 
> 
> Interesting review... thanks. They must be using a Gen5 (or better) tuner in there to get such good results.
> 
> 
> I recall that Zenith has always jumped into new broadcast technologies with both feet. IIRC, they were one of the creators of MTS stereo, and they had a lot of input into the ATSC standards. I'm sure that today's Zenith is nothing like the old company (_the quality goes in before the name goes on_), but it's nice to know that they're still out there in some form.



My cockatoo will be happy. He's been worrying bout this for some time. And I'm sure he will appreciate the better signal.










I gotta get that coupon for him.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13194610
> 
> 
> I'm sure that today's Zenith is nothing like the old company (_the quality goes in before the name goes on_), but it's nice to know that they're still out there in some form.



Zenith is now an arm of LG, which makes 5th generation ATSC chips. Makes sense.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, if I am reading right from another thread, the Insignia (store brand) coupon-eligible tuner from Best Buy is identical to the Zenith box.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13195746
> 
> 
> Zenith is now an arm of LG, which makes 5th generation ATSC chips. Makes sense.



That's right, I forgot that they're a part of Lucky-Goldstar now. Yep, makes sense. This bodes well for the DTV transition.


I have a Dvico external USB tuner that's based on a 5th gen tuner and it works extraordinarily well, even with the simple rod antenna that it comes with.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13194640
> 
> 
> My cockatoo will be happy. He's been worrying bout this for some time. And I'm sure he will appreciate the better signal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta get that coupon for him.



He'll have to give us a full squa... er, report.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13196104
> 
> 
> He'll have to give us a full squa... er, report.



Well, I put in for the coupon. I see the LG (Zenith) box at around 60 bucks. TVChief21, did you purchase one or did it fall into your hands because of what you do?


Then there's the Wal-Mart special Magnavox for 49.95. That would cost me 9 bucks.


If I can even pull in one digital signal in that room I'll be happy. The analog looks like crap all the time. And I can't afford an HDTV for the bird right now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13196363
> 
> 
> And I can't afford an HDTV for the bird right now.



That's one lucky bird!































Like one of Oprah's dogs! LOL


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13197071
> 
> 
> That's one lucky bird!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like one of Oprah's dogs! LOL



It's kind of like this. Tyler (the cockatoo) is a very intelligent bird. Actually he is smart enough to pick the lock on his cage and break out which is why I have to use a padlock on his cage. His intelligence level is around a 2-4 year old child. Since he can pick locks he may be smarter then that.


Unfortunately Tyler acts like a 2-4 year old child. He screams if he doesn't get attention, throws tantrums, will destroy a room if he gets out of the cage unsupervised so he has to be kept in his own room. He hs two other smaller birds as companions and I don't think he gives a hoot for either of them.


So we give him a TV so he has something to either hear or look at during the day. Does he watch? Who knows. I've heard him get pretty upset however during basebal games when the Cardinals or Orioles are playing and they are losing.










If the Browns are on he screams the entire time. So I keep it on FOX 8.


OK most of this I'm joking about but I do use FOX 8 because that and channel 19 are the best analog channels to come in and come on, would you want your kids to watch Action 19 news?










Since the picture is always full of ghost and stuff I figure I'll give the analog converter box a shot because birds can see more pixels then we can. Theory being, clearer picture, quieter bird.


And for those who wonder he isn't kept like a prisoner. He is brought out daily and watches TV in the afternoons when I'm home. He's a big fan of Cops, loves the theme song, and he also likes rock concerts on DVD.


My wife named him after Stephen Tyler of Aerosmith because he moves his beak like Stephen does his lips.


----------



## dleising

I did a quick QAM scan on the plasma we have for the heck of it. I was surprised to find all of the local OTA's mapped to the correct places (3-1, 5-1, etc...). But what surprised me even more is that a few premiums worked their way through, 2-3 of them to be exact. It was in the 80's range. It was neither HBO or Cinemax. Other than that nothing real big, couple of PPV preview channels, Lifetime, and GSN of all channels...


----------



## Inundated

I've been toying around getting one of those new converter boxes just to play around with it, but I decided to just get one of the rebate cards first.










I don't really even "need" it on this little TV downstairs, as it's hooked to cable, but that'll be the likely place it goes.


And hookbill? Agreed. I wouldn't wish "19 Action News" on my worst enemy. Let alone a poor bird.


----------



## nickdawg

There's a new video at TWC guige.com( http://twcguide.com/video.phtml ). In this video describing the lineup I saw the following on a different channel lineup card in the video:


403 WKYC/NBC CH3 HD

404 WOIO/CBS CH HD

405 WEWS/ABC CH5 HD

406 WUAB/MNTV CH43 HD
*407 WBNX/CW CH55 HD*


Pause about 42 seconds into the video to see it.


Looks like Time Warner may be adding WBNX HD as well. Also they're going with a better numbering system

(3 on 403, 5 on 405).


Later in the video there are screencaps of cable channels and the program guide with the new lineup in it. Again, the *program guide shown in the new video* is Passport. Hmmm...


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13191193
> 
> 
> I got my hands on the Zenith coupon eligible converter box. So far it has been very impressive. I have one TV in my kitchen with the rod type rabbit ears that they used to ship with the TV. They are on a plastic post that slips into a hole on the back of the set.
> 
> 
> Last night I took the Zenith stb home and attached it to the kitchen TV. I didn't touch the alignment of the antenna and used the RF out of the stb on ch 3 into the TV.
> 
> 
> I live about 6 miles from WFMJ, WYTV, WKBN and about 15 miles from WNEO. I am able to get slightly ghosty pictures from the Youngstown stations and a very snowy picture from WNEO in Salem. I have to adjust the antenna for each station otherwise the picture fades, ghosts, and the audio gets noisey when I move around the kitchen.
> 
> 
> After the Zenith did it's auto scan I was able to get all the above stations perfectly with no breakups without moving the antenna. The Zenith has a signal meter that showed almost full scale in the "GOOD" zone on all channels. I adjusted the rabbit ears to optimize the digital signal level and got pretty much unwatchable pictures on analog.
> 
> 
> In other words the Zenith box impressed me. It has RF out and video/stereo audio outputs. The EPG is simple and shows "now" and "next". It has all the closed captioning. It does NOT have an analog tuner and does NOT have a QAM tuner. It's also pretty small - about 9" wide and 6" deep. It does come with a remote which I think can be programmed to your TV set, but I haven't done that, mainly because I didn't read the manual.




TY for the review, I'm taking it that the Digital signal is then more reliable in your area then the analog? I looked at the box a CC but don't have the coupon as of yet, is there a channel guide on this & how is the RF out on 3 or 4 set?? via a internal setup I take it.


----------



## Bismarck440

I recieved 2 pieces of mail from AT&T today & expected them to be the pitch on U Verse, much to my surprise it was something on Agreements with PUCO.


Looks like AT&T is getting ready to screw me again, just how I don't know yet, bad enough I only have a 5-10 mile calling radius.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13202687
> 
> 
> There's a new video at TWC guige.com( http://twcguide.com/video.phtml ). In this video describing the lineup I saw the following on a different channel lineup card in the video:
> 
> 
> 403 WKYC/NBC CH3 HD
> 
> 404 WOIO/CBS CH HD
> 
> 405 WEWS/ABC CH5 HD
> 
> 406 WUAB/MNTV CH43 HD
> *407 WBNX/CW CH55 HD*
> 
> 
> Pause about 42 seconds into the video to see it.
> 
> 
> Looks like Time Warner may be adding WBNX HD as well. Also they're going with a better numbering system
> 
> (3 on 403, 5 on 405).
> 
> 
> Later in the video there are screencaps of cable channels and the program guide with the new lineup in it. Again, the program guide show is passport. Hmmm...



I don't understand what you mean by the program show guide is passport.


The numbering system in my area has been like that for some time. 703, 704, 708 and 705.


That little blip of WBNX is good news. Now that is not what I would call an easter egg but still a nice find. Still, don't get to excited. I really think that at least for a bit they are going to have several problems as the transfers occure, and that has to be expected.


And again I have to remind you that they have to use cable cards except on their existing DVD's. Eventually there will have to be a recall. Hopefully they will work out a good deal of the bugs on that new machine, just like they did on the SA 8300 SARA.










Dude....get a TiVo.







Or go satellite if you can.


One other thing. It irritates the crap out of me with all that talk about the new line up when you go to your area there is no new information, just the same channel line up. What's the point of doing that?


----------



## nickdawg

Sorry, it was a typo. Fixed now







I find that interesting because I follow the Navigator forum and someone in Florida(I believe) said he got a card in the mail about a Navigator transition. With the letter mailed in NE Ohio as well as the new website, Navigator has not been shown or mentione even once. Just by the way this channel realignment is being announced, you'd think a change in UI would also be announced and material about it would be sent out. As a FORMER Navigator user, it truly is a NIGHT and DAY difference. I could see lots of complaints over it. Many features you know and love now will be gone.


Akron started on the right track with WJW on 508. Then they screwed up and put channels in odd places all the way up to WEW on 551. I like the way that works b/c all the locals are in a straight shot between 403 and 408.


Still wish they'd tell us when this is going to happen. They have been doing something at night. I've noticed several channels not working at night and that pesky black stripe btw the left sidebar and the picture is showing up on more channels over 100.(I'll have photo to show later).


I thought it was an easter egg. It's like they are trying to keep this a secret(maybe finalizing contracts??). Hookbill has asked several times and they gave a generic answer. I hope it's coming in time for new "SuperNatural" later this season. I'm ready to get my DTV converter coupon and try OTA.


I'm not really sure they will recall boxes because of OCAP(that would be alot of boxes). There is a loop hole, any boxes activated *BEFORE 7/1/07* are "grandfathered" in. I got a non-OCAP box back in August. If they do a Navigator conversion or box recall I'm saying F---it and going with OTA. I'll miss alot of cable channels and recording, but at least it's NOT Navigator!!


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13203929
> 
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by the program show guide is passport.
> 
> 
> The numbering system in my area has been like that for some time. 703, 704, 708 and 705.
> 
> 
> That little blip of WBNX is good news. Now that is not what I would call an easter egg but still a nice find. Still, don't get to excited. I really think that at least for a bit they are going to have several problems as the transfers occure, and that has to be expected.
> 
> 
> And again I have to remind you that they have to use cable cards except on their existing DVD's. Eventually there will have to be a recall. Hopefully they will work out a good deal of the bugs on that new machine, just like they did on the SA 8300 SARA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude....get a TiVo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or go satellite if you can.
> 
> 
> One other thing. It irritates the crap out of me with all that talk about the new line up when you go to your area there is no new information, just the same channel line up. What's the point of doing that?



Not for the legacy TW foks,

NBC for us is 521

FOX is 508 (maybe the only one that is lined up correctly)

I think ABC is 551.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13204175
> 
> 
> I'm not really sure they will recall boxes because of OCAP(that would be alot of boxes). There is a loop hole, any boxes activated *BEFORE 7/1/07* are "grandfathered" in. I got a non-OCAP box back in August. If they do a Navigator conversion or box recall I'm saying F---it and going with OTA. I'll miss alot of cable channels and recording, but at least it's NOT Navigator!!



I don't think they will recall either actually but I know just the thought of it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up so I like to mention it from time to time.










I'll stop doing that. I'm going to review that menu again and try to see what you mean by "passport."


Edit: OK, I see what you're saying but I don't know if what you see is "passport" really.


I assume you've seen a different menu for Navigator software which is why you say this guide menu is "passport." First, with the channel line up you currently have are you able to program for first run only, no repeats? If the answer to that question is yes then the guide you are looking at is not a "passport" menu, it's simply the menu guide is used by TW in your area. But even if you're answer is no that still does not mean it is passport software. It is just the guide they picked to use the demonstration.


I know you can't do this but if you were able to look at a Non DVR HD box, one of the older ones in your area you would see the same guide.


In my area the guide on my HD STB looks exactly like the one on my SA 8300 SARA. Probably TW in your area uses a different service provider for guide service. So what you are seeing is just the guide, not the software.


The SA 8300 SARA is also capable of running first run only but the guide provider Adelphia used didn't give us that info so we were not able to do that.


With so many different STB's and DVR's probably TW will continue to provide the same guides for those boxes. That's good news for you because it means so long as your DVR doesn't break you will continue to be able to use passport.


----------



## Inundated

One difference in the current local HD lineups, the difference which is being transported to the new merged digital lineup: If TWC/legacy NEO had done the same as Adelphia, mirroring their HD locals as 70x (where x=where the station is in the analog lineup), they'd have had 502 (WKYC), etc...since the Akron/Canton system has the locals in analog on odd numbers due to signal ingress issues.


I noted from the PDF lineup card that it does appear STO HD gets its own channel, so I assume they'll run the 24/7 STO HD feed starting in April. Unlike the "Cavaliers HD" channel, it's specifically marked as "Sportstime Ohio HD", not "Indians HD".


The lineup card doesn't specify the locals' HD numbers, so no WBNX-HD is listed there. Presumably they do that since some areas will have different local HD channels - i.e. Youngstown vs. Cleveland/Akron/Canton.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13127145
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could get the "little 3" from Lake County! Wow! That's actually a good sign. It means the "ridge" is not blocking your view of at least one of the Parma towers (the "little 3" all reside on WBNX's stick). WOIO is right next door to WBNX on Ridgewood Dr. If you can get the LP's you may have better luck with WOIO-DT. Just be sure you have an extremely directional antenna since the interference form Canada will cause havoc wit WOIO in the warmer months ahead.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I just reread your post. You mentioned 32 (I mistook it for 35). 35, 53, and 65 are on the WBNX tower. 32 OTOH is transmitted from the top of a building in Downtown Cleveland (somewhere around E 9th & Lakeside judging from the map on the FCC site). They had a C.P. to move to the WBNX stick however I see no sign that it ever happened (due to my poor reception of 32 in comparison to the other 3 LP's that I know are on WBNX's tower.



Little 3, meaning WKYC-2-DT? strange thing in my tests on 3-DT, I get about a 70-80% signal in the daytime to no signal to 40 at night.... they reducing power, or atmospheric conditions?


Unfortunately no heartbeat at all from 35 which would be the choice of the LP's, 32 is an all Infomertial station.... no loss.


I know about polarization I found out antenna in my my attic setup is not completely level & actually points slightly "up" toward the towers, seemed to work a bit better at least with the analog, I had corrected it to level with slightly less results.


----------



## Bismarck440

Someone a while back posted sample maps of ground elevation contour maps (likely to street level) with color that seemed to corespond with the colors in Antennaweb, what site were those from?


----------



## TV21CHIEF

To answer a couple questions about the box, I got it through the National Association of Broadcasters as part of the education program. It just showed up here.


The RF output is menu selectable to 3 or 4.


The guide is simple, it shows "now" and "next".


Probably the best feature is the EZ scan. It's great for those that have to move antennas. You can do a scan in one direction, repostion or rotate the antenna then do an EZ scan and it will only add new channels and not delete the ones already scanned.


It does seem to be more reliable than all the ATSC tuners I've got here. Most of which are 2nd generation.


----------



## nickdawg

Anyone else havign WOIO DT problems? I turned on The Price Is Right and nothing is there. Just a grey screen. Channel 540(WOIO DT2) jus thas a plain blue screen instead of WeatherNow. Of course WUAB works fine










WOIO's main channel is now working.


EDIT:


There's still mad macroblocking on WOIO. Every few seconds it blocks up and there's even audio drop out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13215755
> 
> 
> Anyone else havign WOIO DT problems? I turned on The Price Is Right and nothing is there. Just a grey screen. Channel 540(WOIO DT2) jus thas a plain blue screen instead of WeatherNow. Of course WUAB works fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> There's still mad macroblocking on WOIO. Every few seconds it blocks up and there's even audio drop out
> 
> 
> WOIO's main channel is now working..




When you get a gray screen that usually means their HD transmitter is down. Everytime I've come here to ask when these things happen OTA people also say it's down.


I'm not seeing macroblocking at all. Probably that SA 8300 that you're using.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13215223
> 
> 
> Little 3, meaning WKYC-2-DT? strange thing in my tests on 3-DT, I get about a 70-80% signal in the daytime to no signal to 40 at night.... they reducing power, or atmospheric conditions?
> 
> 
> Unfortunately no heartbeat at all from 35 which would be the choice of the LP's, 32 is an all Infomertial station.... no loss.
> 
> 
> I know about polarization I found out antenna in my my attic setup is not completely level & actually points slightly "up" toward the towers, seemed to work a bit better at least with the analog, I had corrected it to level with slightly less results.



No, this has nothing to do with WKYC. I saw that you listed 3 LPTV stations: 32, 53, & 65. I get a snowy signal on those and I can see the tower out my window! 2 of the 3 signals come off the WBNX tower, so if you get any picture at all on 53 & 65 (as well as 35 which ironically you don't get) you should have no problems getting WBNX-DT, and hopefully WOIO-DT which is right next door, with that same antenna.


----------



## hookbill

When I read Nidkdawgs post about WOIO off the air I took a look and saw it was on. I noticed however that dobly 5.1 is not working and they have it on all the time.


I just checked again and still no Dolby 5.1. Have they changed the way the are handling that? Are they just turning it on at nights now?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13218337
> 
> 
> When I read Nidkdawgs post about WOIO off the air I took a look and saw it was on. I noticed however that dobly 5.1 is not working and they have it on all the time.
> 
> 
> I just checked again and still no Dolby 5.1. Have they changed the way the are handling that? Are they just turning it on at nights now?



God I hope so!! I've found that non-network proramming sounds better forced into 2 Channel Stereo. I call it "WOIO Viewing Mode". I







HATE







that faux surround WEWS, WUAB and WOIO do.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13216345
> 
> 
> Probably that SA 8300 that you're using.



Funny.
























The macroblocking happened during TPIR. I watched the noon news and there was just freezing and audio dropout. I came back around 4:30 and it works fine, except it's in 2.0. I actually like it in 2.0.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13215526
> 
> 
> To answer a couple questions about the box, I got it through the National Association of Broadcasters as part of the education program. It just showed up here.
> 
> 
> The RF output is menu selectable to 3 or 4.
> 
> 
> The guide is simple, it shows "now" and "next".
> 
> 
> Probably the best feature is the EZ scan. It's great for those that have to move antennas. You can do a scan in one direction, repostion or rotate the antenna then do an EZ scan and it will only add new channels and not delete the ones already scanned.
> 
> 
> It does seem to be more reliable than all the ATSC tuners I've got here. Most of which are 2nd generation.



TY 21Chief, as some said the "Guide" is included, I briefly tested a Panasonic analog DVR that included a guide. I was kind of lead to believe the guide was similar to that. Just wondeerd if the Zenith/LG included this or would the RCA or Phillips have this, in the long run I'm not looking for features but sensitivity, as I had posted before I think the Manufactures have been skimping on the Tuners since "everyone" has Cable now.


That EZ Scan sounds nice, I think most tuners delete, & sometimes impossible to add manually.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13217117
> 
> 
> No, this has nothing to do with WKYC. I saw that you listed 3 LPTV stations: 32, 53, & 65. I get a snowy signal on those and I can see the tower out my window! 2 of the 3 signals come off the WBNX tower, so if you get any picture at all on 53 & 65 (as well as 35 which ironically you don't get) you should have no problems getting WBNX-DT, and hopefully WOIO-DT which is right next door, with that same antenna.



WBNX DT doesnt seem to be a problem, its WKYC at nights, & of course WOIO especialy during band openings.


53, 65, & 32 are snowy, but watchable, & actually 23 provides a very watchable picture with a light grain most of the time. I take it 59 DT is not operational either, nor do I expect to recieve that DT.


Ah, I get ya with the little 3







, the FCC databsae lists 65 as 44 analog (???) with an application of 44 Digital, along with an application for another LP on 7 on the farm.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13219286
> 
> 
> WBNX DT doesnt seem to be a problem, its WKYC at nights, & of course WOIO especialy during band openings.
> 
> 
> 53, 65, & 32 are snowy, but watchable, & actually 23 provides a very watchable picture with a light grain most of the time. I take it 59 DT is not operational either, nor do I expect to recieve that DT.
> 
> 
> Ah, I get ya with the little 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , the FCC database lists 65 as 44 analog (???) with an application of 44 Digital, along with an application for another LP on 7 on the farm.



If you check out the FCC site a lot you will see that the same people and/or organizations keep requesting LPTV permits all over the place. I guess there is nothing to lose to request 10 different applications hoping one sticks.


BTW 32 had an app. some time ago to move to the same coordinates as WBNX (i.e. joining the "little 3").


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13218857
> 
> 
> God I hope so!! I've found that non-network proramming sounds better forced into 2 Channel Stereo. I call it "WOIO Viewing Mode". I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HATE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that faux surround WEWS, WUAB and WOIO do.



WUAB is still in Dolby 5.1 so I'll bet what you saw with the macorblocking and stuff may be the reason why they pulled Dolby 5.1.


Don't be surprised if it's not on tonight. I don't think I'm recording anything on WOIO tonight, since the writers strike the only thing I think I'm recording from CBS is Big Brother and that's the wife's show. She wouldn't be able to tell if it's in Dolby 5.1 or not anyway.


Oh and Survivor. Do they use the "faux" Dolby 5.1 on those shows, because if they do that really doesn't sound to bad. I do need to crank the back speakers up a bit but all and all better then Pro Logic II.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13215274
> 
> 
> Someone a while back posted sample maps of ground elevation contour maps (likely to street level) with color that seemed to corespond with the colors in Antennaweb, what site were those from?



There's a sticky at the top of the HDTV Reception Hardware forum with Google Earth mapping info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13215526
> 
> 
> To answer a couple questions about the box, I got it through the National Association of Broadcasters as part of the education program. It just showed up here.
> 
> 
> The RF output is menu selectable to 3 or 4.
> 
> 
> The guide is simple, it shows "now" and "next".
> 
> 
> Probably the best feature is the EZ scan. It's great for those that have to move antennas. You can do a scan in one direction, repostion or rotate the antenna then do an EZ scan and it will only add new channels and not delete the ones already scanned.
> 
> 
> It does seem to be more reliable than all the ATSC tuners I've got here. Most of which are 2nd generation.



What's really cool is that new " Smart Antenna " feature where the tuner talks to the smart antenna and adjusts for the best reception from any direction. Unfortunately it seems most of the coupon-eligible tuners don't implement this.


----------



## hookbill

I checked and it was on by primetime. I also checked just now to see if that's the way it's going to stay, off in the day on at night.


Sorry nickdawg, back to all doby 5.1 all the time. They probably had something break and were able to repair it by evening.


----------



## hookbill

TV21CHIEF the box you got is very reasonable priced, Radio Shack has it for around 70 bucks. But the Magnavox box at Wal-Mart is only 49.95.


Now I don't want to buy something that doesn't work and you mentioned the EZ scan feature on the Zenith box. Since I get poor analog reception anyway I'm thinking the Zenith box may not have that.


I don't have my coupon yet and I wonder if I tried the Magnavox box if I would get either a full credit or my coupon back at Wal-Mart. I'll have to investigate further.


----------



## hookbill

TW sent out an offer for a free HD DVR today! All I need to do is bring in my HD STB and they would be happy to give it to me for free (for a limited time).


It will probably be the SA 8300 with Navigator software....um, no thanks. You'll take that HD STB from me either when I get a TiVo HD DVR or you pry it from my cold dead hands.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13223951
> 
> 
> TV21CHIEF the box you got is very reasonable priced, Radio Shack has it for around 70 bucks. But the Magnavox box at Wal-Mart is only 49.95.
> 
> 
> Now I don't want to buy something that doesn't work and you mentioned the EZ scan feature on the Zenith box. Since I get poor analog reception anyway I'm thinking the Zenith box may not have that.
> 
> 
> I don't have my coupon yet and I wonder if I tried the Magnavox box if I would get either a full credit or my coupon back at Wal-Mart. I'll have to investigate further.



I was thinking of just buying the box without the coupon first, then rebuying it with the coupon if I'm satisfied with the results. CC has the Zenith box, but no price was on it & was in a bit of a hurry to find someone & ask. Now is LG coming out with this box too, along with Insignia Best Buy version which I was told would be 59.99?


One other question on this box, it only covers ch 2-69 on the broadcast band & not the upper band cable channels, right?


& something for 21Chief, I understand this whole digital switchover was so our goverment could sell of the airwaves.. thus from something I read within the past few years, broadcast channels 59-69 were going bye bye... true or false?


Selling air??







... who would fall for such a scheme? I'll give it 75-100 years & you will be paying for air itself!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13223902
> 
> 
> There's a sticky at the top of the HDTV Reception Hardware forum with Google Earth mapping info:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480



TY, Ouch, big downloads







, but thats what I was looking for.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13225508
> 
> 
> One other question on this [Zenith] box, it only covers ch 2-69 on the broadcast band & not the upper band cable channels, right?



Right as this is a ATSC/8VSB only tuner (no NTSC, no ATSC/QAM).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13225508
> 
> 
> & something for 21Chief, I understand this whole digital switchover was so our goverment could sell of the airwaves.. thus from something I read within the past few years, broadcast channels 59-69 were going bye bye... true or false?
> 
> 
> Selling air??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... who would fall for such a scheme? I'll give it 75-100 years & you will be paying for air itself!


*As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see

How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.* - Tom Petty/The Last DJ


Actually that line was a direct shot at American Idol. But so true in just about everything today.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> thus from something I read within the past few years, broadcast channels 59-69 were going bye bye... true or false?



It more than that, it's *52*-69 that's going by-by. That's the reason why WVPX never turned on it's DTV assigned signal on ch 59. Why invest in equipment to broadcast on a frequency that will have to be vacated?


This may also explain why some of the LPTV stations have analog requests on new channels.


> Quote:
> the FCC database lists 65 as 44 analog (???) with an application of 44 Digital, along with an application for another LP on 7 on the farm.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13223932
> 
> 
> I checked and it was on by primetime. I also checked just now to see if that's the way it's going to stay, off in the day on at night.
> 
> 
> Sorry nickdawg, back to all doby 5.1 all the time. They probably had something break and were able to repair it by evening.



I saw that during 2 1/2 Men an Old Christine. Both sounded good. Then the 11pm news came on and sounded like crap(pun intended). Back to using my "WOIO Viewing Mode".


----------



## nickdawg

Tune to channel 399. There is information about the new line up. I haven't seen any dates, but they do run through the line up and WBNX-DT is again listed as # 407.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13233520
> 
> 
> Tune to channel 399. There is information about the new line up. I haven't seen any dates, but they do run through the line up and WBNX-DT is again listed as # 407.



Again, not in our area. If there is any info I'll go see if I can find it on my upstairs HDSTB just in case TiVo isn't picking it up, but the channel had no info when I looked.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13234686
> 
> 
> Again, not in our area. If there is any info I'll go see if I can find it on my upstairs HDSTB just in case TiVo isn't picking it up, but the channel had no info when I looked.



I went through every channel on the HD STB analog, digital, HD and not one word on the cable line up change.


Again I think this will happen primarily to old Comcast and TW customers first. In the old Adelphia area it may be a little bit more difficult to pull off. I'm not saying it won't happen in March, but if I were a betting man my money is saying it may be down the road awhile for us.


----------



## rick490

Channel 399 is available in the Dover/New Phila area. We were Adelphia customers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13235539
> 
> 
> Channel 399 is available in the Dover/New Phila area. We were Adelphia customers.



I kind of had the feeling that someone from respond from the old Adelphia people. I thought I should have posted "maybe some Adelphia people" but I decided that sticking my foot in my mouth was a better idea.










Ok, checking my google map first you are farther South then Akron and second in distance to my house you're about the same as Pittsburgh PA.


So let me modify my statement now by saying the people in the old Adelphia who have HD channels in the 700's are going to be the problem child. Probably Northeast Cleveland and others who have those tiers for HD channels.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13236048
> 
> 
> I kind of had the feeling that someone from respond from the old Adelphia people. I thought I should have posted "maybe some Adelphia people" but I decided that sticking my foot in my mouth was a better idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, checking my google map first you are farther South then Akron and second in distance to my house you're about the same as Pittsburgh PA.
> 
> 
> So let me modify my statement now by saying the people in the old Adelphia who have HD channels in the 700's are going to be the problem child. Probably Northeast Cleveland and others who have those tiers for HD channels.



HeHeHeee







. You back pedal almost as good as Senator Clinton.


----------



## jtscherne

It looks like DirecTV is trying to sign up CW HD locals around the country. They added four today in different large markets. Hopefully Cleveland isn't too far down the list. They also are adding the MyNetwork stations at the same time.


----------



## hookbill

I just read this from Ohio Media Watch :


WVIZ - Believe it or not, after years of headaches, there's some possible "good news" for Cleveland's PBS affiliate in the land of digital TV.


WVIZ will be staying on its pre-transition digital channel 26, abandoning 25. But the Ideastream-owned PBS affiliate has had a long-running legal dispute with CBS Radio, which owns its tower site (CBS' WNCX/98.5 is there).


Is there an end, soon? Read the report...


IDEASTREAM FINALLY DEVELOPED A LEASE MODIFICATION THAT IS BELIEVED TO MEET CBS'S NEEDS AND A COMPLETE PROPOSAL WITH EXHIBITS WAS SUBMITTED TO CBS FOR APPROVAL. FURTHER INFORMATION WAS REQUESTED BY CBS AND IT HAS BEEN PROVIDED, BUT IDEASTREAM DOES NOT YET HAVE AN EXECUTED LEASE MODIFICATION SO THAT WORK CAN BEGIN.


Once that agreement takes effect, the application says a side-mounted temporary facility at the North Royalton site would take about six months, and they'll request an STA for it. They say the final, top-mounted, post-transition facility "WOULD NOT BE IN PLACE UNTIL SOME TIME BETWEEN FEBRUARY 17, 2009 AND AUGUST 17, 2009". WVIZ's application says the station would apply for an extension to cover that, if this plan is what is decided upon.


But whatever power level the side-mounted STA facility would specify, either way, WVIZ-DT would finally be on an actual tower, and not on a small tower that barely clears the roof of the station's former studio building on Brookpark Road in Parma...


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13236048
> 
> 
> So let me modify my statement now by saying the people in the old Adelphia who have HD channels in the 700's are going to be the problem child. Probably Northeast Cleveland and others who have those tiers for HD channels.



Actually, we do have the HD's in the 700's, but I get your point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13236929
> 
> 
> Actually, we do have the HD's in the 700's, but I get your point.




That point is I should keep my mouth shut because obviously I'm wrong about everything today.










Well, we shall see. I really wish if they are going to do something around here they would give us some heads up.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13236605
> 
> 
> Once that agreement takes effect, the application says a side-mounted temporary facility at the North Royalton site would take about six months, and they'll request an STA for it. They say the final, top-mounted, post-transition facility "WOULD NOT BE IN PLACE UNTIL SOME TIME BETWEEN FEBRUARY 17, 2009 AND AUGUST 17, 2009". WVIZ's application says the station would apply for an extension to cover that, if this plan is what is decided upon.



What a joke. ANOTHER 18 months for them, and as I suspected they will blow past the analog cutoff date. Pathetic.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13238856
> 
> 
> What a joke. ANOTHER 18 months for them, and as I suspected they will blow past the analog cutoff date. Pathetic.



Hey, don't shoot the messenger.










I was just giving you OTA folks a little info, I know you guys talk about WVIZ frequently.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13238921
> 
> 
> Hey, don't shoot the messenger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just giving you OTA folks a little info, I know you guys talk about WVIZ frequently.




Great, but how so is this "Good News"? ... I hadn't heard too much about this lately, 6 months without PBS, & speaking of which are they upgrading the repeaters to DT or will they go dark...


Meaning...

63 in Montville & 64 in Conneaut.


They had a few more one in Twinsburg & 22 in Gates Mills, years back


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13228133
> 
> 
> It more than that, it's *52*-69 that's going by-by. That's the reason why WVPX never turned on it's DTV assigned signal on ch 59. Why invest in equipment to broadcast on a frequency that will have to be vacated?
> 
> 
> This may also explain why some of the LPTV stations have analog requests on new channels.



Don't hear all too much on 23,, so 59 never went on? I'm assuming 23 will go DT at the switchover on 23 since they have an app in for 23DT


I guess then 55 will keep it's ID as Virtual channel 55 & #'s will basically be meaningless then?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13239065
> 
> 
> Great, but how so is this "Good News"? ... I hadn't heard too much about this lately, 6 months without PBS, & speaking of which are they upgrading the repeaters to DT or will they go dark...
> 
> 
> Meaning...
> 
> 63 in Montville & 64 in Conneaut.
> 
> 
> They had a few more one in Twinsburg & 22 in Gates Mills, years back



It is good news in that WVIZ finally has a plan and (tentative) completion date. Prior info was "yeah, someday, when 20 other things take place, we might get around to puting up a more permanent transmitter".


----------



## dleising

I cant get WVIZ-HD on TW!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13240660
> 
> 
> I cant get WVIZ-HD on TW!



Do you get any PBS HD Channel? If not, you should be able to get WVIZ.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13240749
> 
> 
> Do you get any PBS HD Channel? If not, you should be able to get WVIZ.



I can get 45/49 so it isn't too big of a deal. It's listed, TW has it, but it was pixelated for some time and now just shows a Grey screen when I try to access it. It used to work, so I don't know what is up. All of the other HD channels work fine.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13240815
> 
> 
> I can get 45/49 so it isn't too big of a deal. It's listed, TW has it, but it was pixelated for some time and now just shows a Grey screen when I try to access it. It used to work, so I don't know what is up. All of the other HD channels work fine.



What are you using to tune in with?


Grey screen usually means a broadcast problem but I just checked and I'm getting it fine. I'm not too far away from you, I'm in Bainbridge.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13240947
> 
> 
> What are you using to tune in with?
> 
> 
> Grey screen usually means a broadcast problem but I just checked and I'm getting it fine. I'm not too far away from you, I'm in Bainbridge.



I'm using SA8300HD *hookbill enters anti-8300 pun here*.


I just checked the channel again, and now it comes in, and is very pixelated and unwatchable. I find this odd- it's the only HD channel I really have trouble with...


Perhaps weak cable signal? I thought we had pretty good strength but I could be wrong. WNEO HD looks fine.


----------



## nickdawg

Proud Owner of the SA 8300HD

TiVo HD? TiVo S3? Don't make me laugh!!!!

$900 Unit. Hundreds of dollars on additional service fees. Extra $$$ to make it SDV compliant. NOT FOR ME!!


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13240749
> 
> 
> Do you get any PBS HD Channel? If not, you should be able to get WVIZ.



I plug right into my TV without a box and get WVIZ in HD on 25-1. Sometimes it jumps to 103-1. Time Warner Cable (University Heights, OH)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13241228
> 
> 
> I'm using SA8300HD *hookbill enters anti-8300 pun here*.
> 
> 
> I just checked the channel again, and now it comes in, and is very pixelated and unwatchable. I find this odd- it's the only HD channel I really have trouble with...
> 
> 
> Perhaps weak cable signal? I thought we had pretty good strength but I could be wrong. WNEO HD looks fine.



Have them check your signal. Either that or you may need a new DVR. Caution: If you've got passport software you'll probably get the SA 8300 with Navigator and those are big time problems.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13244412
> 
> 
> I plug right into my TV without a box and get WVIZ in HD on 25-1. Sometimes it jumps to 103-1. Time Warner Cable (University Heights, OH)



Same for me in Mayfield Heights.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13243140
> 
> 
> Proud Owner of the SA 8300HD
> 
> TiVo HD? TiVo S3? Don't make me laugh!!!!
> 
> $900 Unit. Hundreds of dollars on additional service fees. Extra $$$ to make it SDV compliant. NOT FOR ME!!



nickdawg, I can't believe you want to go toe to toe with me on this but ok, if you insist.


First, you can get an S3 or a TiVo HD much cheaper then what I originally paid for it now. I'm not sure what you can get an S3 for but I've seen prices as low as 500.00 and even cheaper. A TiVo HD at Best Buy is 250.00.


For your money you get a better quality HD picture at least with the S3. You also get the ability features like TiVo to Go, TiVo to Come Back, you can play your music on your computer through your TiVo. I have 8 days worth of music and play it wireless though my TiVo. You get a larger hard drive and eSATA or you can install a larger hard drive sine you own it. Search features are so much better then the SA 8300, there is the wish list (I'm still waiting for Forest Gump in HD) so even if something isn't on and you want it you can find it. True, no on demand but I don't use on demand and since I have 750 gb if I want to watch something on HBO I'll simply record it. If I start to run out of space I can simply move my shows to my computers hard drive.


And then there's Amazon Unbox which downloads directly to your TiVo, you can play Avi. files from your computer on your TiVo. They offer Rhapsody if you want that. HD photo and slide show from your computer. If your into podcast that's available along with weather and traffic info.


The guide go further out then the one that TW offers so you can see what's coming up. I believe passport allows priority in setting up your progamming, SARA did not. Can you set your programming to record "first run only"? I know the SA 8300 is capable of that but it wasn't able to do it in my area. Maybe you can in your area.


I won't go after passport software because I've never used it but you and I both know what SARA is like.


From time to time lifetime service is offered, though I admit that's rare. I paid 299.00 for 3 years service.


Many people at the TiVo forum actually have figured out that when you take off the DVR charge and DVR fee, remember they charge for both of that, it's actually cheaper to buy the TiVo in the long run


There are all kinds of other features like swivel search. That's kind of like surfing on the internet maybe looking at something and then you see something else and you move in that direction. For example you search for a certain movie and you see who directed it. Then you can have TiVo search for other movies by that director, or actor. All kinds of things you can do with that.


Also the S3 and TiVo HD record OTA. I don't use that but if I wanted to get an antennae and drop cable all together, I could.


Hows that SA 8300 doing on that OTA reception?


Can you watch something recorded on your SA 8300 in another room without running a wire?


Can you transfer programs to your computer?


Can you play avi. files?


The bottom line is this: If you are happy with the DVR you have then I say stay with what you've got. I'm not going to go through all thre reasons I wasn't happy with the SA 8300 SARA but it certainly doesn't sound like Navigator is any improvement.


Anyway, I just love TiVo. I like the interface, the 30 second skip and tick, the ability to stop two recordings and watch live tv and go back to those recordings. My first DVR was a TiVo and after I got the SA 8300 the interface and lack of features was so bad I could never get use to it.


The extra dollars for the USB is to be determined but for superior quality and more important its reliability it's worth it.


----------



## hookbill

I just took a look at the on line letter that was sent out to all of us about the line up change. In the letter it says the following:

*We are excited about these changes and invite you to learn about them online or on your television. Details are available at www.twcguide.com 

or on channel position 399 once your lineup has changed.*


So I suppose that even I'm going to get affected by this probably within a week or so. And just like everyone else I'll have to reprogram my season passes.


I guess if there is any good news about this most of my season passes that are not in HD are on the analog channels. So long as they are running repeats of my network shows I can set up season passes for those, otherwise I will have to create wish lists.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13239794
> 
> 
> It is good news in that WVIZ finally has a plan and (tentative) completion date. Prior info was "yeah, someday, when 20 other things take place, we might get around to puting up a more permanent transmitter".



Oh, I'm so disappointed now since what little TV I watch is usually on PBS, I guess I can do without it for 6 months. No 49 & no 54 (WQLN), I guess I'll get over it.


I thought the plan was "next spring"?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13225689
> 
> *As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
> 
> How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.* - Tom Petty/The Last DJ
> 
> 
> Actually that line was a direct shot at American Idol. But so true in just about everything today.



How true, I guess thats just why I don't buy into a lot of fads myself.


I'll bet the FCC will start charging for Amateur renewals soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13245338
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm so disappointed now since what little TV I watch is usually on PBS, I guess I can do without it for 6 months. No 49 & no 54 (WQLN), I guess I'll get over it.
> 
> 
> I thought the plan was "next spring"?



The biggest disappointment about WVIZ IMHO is no Dolby 5.1 and sometimes they have some real good concerts.


Then again they usually show up sooner or later on HDnet. In 5.1.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13250102
> 
> 
> The biggest disappointment about WVIZ IMHO is no Dolby 5.1 and sometimes they have some real good concerts.
> 
> 
> Then again they usually show up sooner or later on HDnet. In 5.1.



They're also on WNEO-HD at the same time(PBS-HD). WNEO has Dolby 5.1.


IMHO, WVIZ is absolutely WORTHLESS. I was pissed when it was added to my cable last year. Probably b/c Adelphia had WVIZ and TW had WNEO. When they combined, everyone gets everything.


Also, WNEO has a better multicast channel. I like the true digital feed of WNEO-SD. WVIZ can keep their stupid "Ohio Channel".


----------



## Dweezilz

Did anyone else recall the letter they received in the mail from Time Warner about the lineup change indicate that the change would happen March 1st? I tossed the letter so maybe I'm remembering wrong but I really thought that's what it said.


Well, it's March 1st and no new lineup, no new HD channels in the 400 range.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/13264231
> 
> 
> Did anyone else recall the letter they received in the mail from Time Warner about the lineup change indicate that the change would happen March 1st? I tossed the letter so maybe I'm remembering wrong but I really thought that's what it said.
> 
> 
> Well, it's March 1st and no new lineup, no new HD channels in the 400 range.



With all respect my friend, we've been talking about it for about a week now.










The letter said around March 4th. Some people say customer service, who knows less then we do said around mid March.


If you can get channel 399 then you're probably due for the change soon. Check it out. If you can't receive channel 399 (like myself) then it will probably happen a bit later.


No one really knows, and that includes TW. I've tried all my contacts and they are closed mouth on the subject.


If you looked 4 post above you will see I made a comment. Since your mouse may not be working or your arrow key I will put it here for you:

*We are excited about these changes and invite you to learn about them online or on your television. Details are available at www.twcguide.com 

or on channel position 399 once your lineup has changed.*


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13251312
> 
> 
> They're also on WNEO-HD at the same time(PBS-HD). WNEO has Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> IMHO, WVIZ is absolutely WORTHLESS. I was pissed when it was added to my cable last year. Probably b/c Adelphia had WVIZ and TW had WNEO. When they combined, everyone gets everything.
> 
> 
> Also, WNEO has a better multicast channel. I like the true digital feed of WNEO-SD. WVIZ can keep their stupid "Ohio Channel".



WVIZ-SD was finally added as a subchannel to WVIZ-DT awhile ago. The Ohio Channel has been on both WNEO & WVIZ since the beginning of digital OTA.


----------



## hookbill

They say we get WNEO in our area, it's on the guide but we don't get it. I wish we did get it.


Oh and I asked customer service about this and got the "no you don't get it" then had them look at the web site and they said "gee, golly, I don't understand, we will look into it."


That was about a year ago.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13264984
> 
> 
> They say we get WNEO in our area, it's on the guide but we don't get it. I wish we did get it.
> 
> 
> Oh and I asked customer service about this and got the "no you don't get it" then had them look at the web site and they said "gee, golly, I don't understand, we will look into it."
> 
> 
> That was about a year ago.



That's the kind of BS that just floors me. At the very least, correct the website to reflect the correct information.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13264263
> 
> 
> With all respect my friend, we've been talking about it for about a week now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The letter said around March 4th. Some people say customer service, who knows less then we do said around mid March.
> 
> 
> If you can get channel 399 then you're probably due for the change soon. Check it out. If you can't receive channel 399 (like myself) then it will probably happen a bit later.
> 
> 
> No one really knows, and that includes TW. I've tried all my contacts and they are closed mouth on the subject.
> 
> 
> If you looked 4 post above you will see I made a comment. Since your mouse may not be working or your arrow key I will put it here for you:
> 
> *We are excited about these changes and invite you to learn about them online or on your television. Details are available at www.twcguide.com
> 
> or on channel position 399 once your lineup has changed.*




oops...sorry about that hook. Got a new job, been in San Francisco almost 3 out of 4 weeks each month since November and have been out of the loop. Thought I recalled March 1st, came back to this thread for the 1st time in many months, did a quick scan, saw the comments about channel 399 but didn't compute that it related to my question about what date (I didn't see a date even though I'm sure it's here in a post you made







). Been to the TWCguide.com many times in the last few days, didn't see a reference to a date. I thought my letter that I got a month back said March 1st, my mother-in-law said March 1st so thus, I thought it was march 1st. Thus, I asked if it was March 1st. My bad. Guess it makes me realize all the fun I've been missing in this thread... Mouse is working just fine thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/13265056
> 
> 
> oops...sorry about that hook. Got a new job, been in San Francisco almost 3 out of 4 weeks each month since November and have been out of the loop. Thought I recalled March 1st, came back to this thread for the 1st time in many months, did a quick scan, saw the comments about channel 399 but didn't compute that it related to my question about what date (I didn't see a date even though I'm sure it's here in a post you made
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Been to the TWCguide.com many times in the last few days, didn't see a reference to a date. I thought my letter that I got a month back said March 1st, my mother-in-law said March 1st so thus, I thought it was march 1st. Thus, I asked if it was March 1st. My bad. Guess it makes me realize all the fun I've been missing in this thread... Mouse is working just fine thanks.



Well, you know me. You can't ask a simple question when you're a regular around here without getting a little heat.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13265030
> 
> 
> That's the kind of BS that just floors me. At the very least, correct the website to reflect the correct information.



Oh, I've asked that very same question and the answer I got was it wasn't that "easy" to correct something on their web site channel guide.


If you want to see something really funny take a look at this . Notice the HD channels have INHD 1 and INHD 2, and The Tube. That's on page 3 so you will need to scroll down. And I believe several of their digital channels have changed as well.


Why even keep this page on the web?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13265248
> 
> 
> Why even keep this page on the web?



EXACTLY


----------



## nickdawg

The NEW lineup is here!!!

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU022008.pdf


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13266932
> 
> 
> The NEW lineup is here!!!



Didn't work for me. This link did, though:
http://www.twcguide.com/media/change-flyer.pdf 


It shows all of the channel starting at 101 for TWC NEO.


----------



## nickdawg

The link above should be working now. It was an HTML code error. I threw an extra "http://" in there.

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU022008.pdf


----------



## hookbill

OK. That's the line up. Now when is it going to happen?


I hope it's this week, if I need to contact TiVo I'll have more time. But that link alone should be enough to get them working on it.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm apologizing for this in advance, but I can't resist!


TiVo's gonna crash and burn when the lineup changes. But not my 8300HD!!










I couldn't resist!


What do you think will happen on March 4 with the new channels? Will they show up somewhere even if the lineup didn't change yet? The Programming notices page also said some SD digital channels were being added/removed. Will that be happening on March 4? I'm hoping, lineup change or not, the new channels show up on Tuesday. Maybe somewhere in the 600s.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13267306
> 
> 
> TiVo's gonna crash and burn when the lineup changes. But not my 8300HD!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't resist!



dude, your SA 8300 is going to have the same problems I'm going to have. We will have to reschedule our season passes, but I won't have as many to do as you since I have many shows on wish list which is not channel sensative.


Now as far as the line up change goes, I think TiVo will have a crystal clear idea about it. I sent my good friend Steve Fry an email reminding him to make sure that TiVo is aware of the changes.


But let's say that doesn't happen and I'm stuck with the old line up. All it will take to get it change is that nice little link that you provided and an email to TiVo. It will be done in 24 hours.


But I think Mr. Fry will make sure they are aware of exactly when it will happen.


And your SA 8300 sucks, passport or not.


----------



## pbarach

 http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208/


----------



## nickdawg

I think it's pathetic that the stuff under 100 is not standardized. I know most of it will not be around much longer but they should have taken what they will be required to carry after 2/17/09 (LOCAL BROADCAST CHANNELS) and put them on the actual channel they are(ie 3 on 3, 5 on 5, 8 on 8, 19 on 19 and so on). That would end alot of confusion, especially if cable picks up any SD customers after the transition.


Also, any thoughts on what will happen to the channels under 100 after the switch? On digital boxes will there be virtual channels mapped to TWO places: the existing nimber and the new number or will the existing numbers "go away"? I hope the second happens because it will make it worse flipping channels and using the guide to have channels in multiple places(as some are now).


----------



## stuart628

are you guys happy that wbnx is listed at channel 407?


----------



## nickdawg

It's about time. WBNX has been on air for almost a year. It better be going live ON March 4th!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13269543
> 
> 
> I think it's pathetic that the stuff under 100 is not standardized. I know most of it will not be around much longer but they should have taken what they will be required to carry after 2/17/09 (LOCAL BROADCAST CHANNELS) and put them on the actual channel they are(ie 3 on 3, 5 on 5, 8 on 8, 19 on 19 and so on). That would end alot of confusion, especially if cable picks up any SD customers after the transition.


*I think that depends upon how you look at it and what you are use to. For me, the local line up for the channels you mention make perfect sense. They all are on the correct channel except channel 19 and that's been on channel 4 in my area for years. You left out "My 43" (with good reason







) but it has always been on my lineup on channel 6. I automatically go to 4 or 6 if I want those channels. And I do the same with the HD channels as well, except I'll have to het use to a "4" to start instead of a "7".*



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13269543
> 
> 
> Also, any thoughts on what will happen to the channels under 100 after the switch? On digital boxes will there be virtual channels mapped to TWO places: the existing nimber and the new number or will the existing numbers "go away"? I hope the second happens because it will make it worse flipping channels and using the guide to have channels in multiple places(as some are now).


*I have some thoughts on that. The answer to your question is it will be mapped to different places. They've been doing that with analog locals for a couple of years. My first thought is "why?" We already know that the way this will be done is by upgrading the analog signal from the hub to a digital signal, but personally I'd prefer to let my DVR do it (even if I had one of those cheapo SA 8300's







) My next thought was I noticed they eliminated the analog channels of the local stations which in my area were in the 800's. Same reason, I'd rather record their analog and let my S3 upconvert. I would think the local analog channels may be "hidden", but where? Unless they can get into the 1000's then there is no place to hide them.


So either we will get analog versions of the locals, which is fine with me or the local channel analog versions will be hidden. It will be easy for DVR users to tell because if they have their DVR's hooked up to digital sound they will see PCM 48 for analog or Dolby 2.0 for digital. TiVo people will know because we will hear the sound that TiVo makes when you change channels even if you arn't hooked up to a digital receiver.


But I'll bet you a snow free winter that those digital versions of the channels like FX and USA will be nothing more then upgraded analog from the hub. The good news is that if you don't like it you can still use the analog channel and let your DVR upgrade for you.


But why do that? Why put them in two spots? Well, if you think like a cable company wouldn't the logical thing be to give them about a year maybe two and then send out a letter saying "these channels will only be available on digital cable. If you would like to continue to see these channels then you will need a digital converter."


That would be fine with me and you to nickdawg becaue we would at least get real digital signals of these channels. All speculation but in the evil mind of a cable company it makes perfect sense to me.*


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

im a Cox subscriber now, but moving to Avon so it will either be TW or DirecTV.


Is CavaliersHD supposed to be FSN HD? Or do they only turn it on when the Cavs are playing?


----------



## stuart628

The thing about that channel is its a game time only channel for the cavs....but dont expect consistency like STO had for the indians....the games are random (meaning not every home game) but there are a I guess fair amount of HD games...but it is a game time only channel no matter what the provider. Now as far as the reason why they do this I dont know, and maybe someone else can explain this




Edit: did you know we have the #2 most posts in our thread behind NEW YORK, way to go cleveland the #14 tv market..


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13265197
> 
> 
> Well, you know me. You can't ask a simple question when you're a regular around here without getting a little heat.



True enough! No issues. Just a bit grumpy yesterday I guess.










Now let's hope they get this going in the next week!! I have my doubts!


----------



## dleising

I have a feeling that the new digital packages that TW is making is going to cost more to get the same channels that I do now.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13269543
> 
> 
> I think it's pathetic that the stuff under 100 is not standardized. I know most of it will not be around much longer but they should have taken what they will be required to carry after 2/17/09 (LOCAL BROADCAST CHANNELS) and put them on the actual channel they are(ie 3 on 3, 5 on 5, 8 on 8, 19 on 19 and so on). That would end alot of confusion, especially if cable picks up any SD customers after the transition.



I often thought of this while being somewhere with Cable (I've never had cable at least where I was paying a seperate bill for it & you pay for this confusion & aggravation?)


I never understood the logic in this except to "Cluster" the channels putting the locals into a straight block,which never was done anyway. Around here it really should have been all channels on their coresponding channel numbers, WTBS on 17 (which is it's regular broadcast channel in Atlanta) WWOR on 9, WGN on 6 ... ect.


Now with the new digital positions the channel numbers are really meaningless for us OTA people too.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13223951
> 
> 
> TV21CHIEF the box you got is very reasonable priced, Radio Shack has it for around 70 bucks. But the Magnavox box at Wal-Mart is only 49.95.
> 
> 
> Now I don't want to buy something that doesn't work and you mentioned the EZ scan feature on the Zenith box. Since I get poor analog reception anyway I'm thinking the Zenith box may not have that.
> 
> 
> I don't have my coupon yet and I wonder if I tried the Magnavox box if I would get either a full credit or my coupon back at Wal-Mart. I'll have to investigate further.



I'm test driving a Magnavox, its actually made by Funi (as I thought) rather than Philips as reported somewhere.


The Zenith box is 59.99 @ Circuit City.


----------



## bgillyjcu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13269238
> 
> http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208/





When does all this take effect?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13272511
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that the new digital packages that TW is making is going to cost more to get the same channels that I do now.



Probably if you have basic cable plus it will eventually. For right now if you have digital it shouldn't.


However as we head down the road things may get interesting. As you can see the NFL Network is listed on the "sports tier." So if you want that you will have to purchase the sports tier. Funny, this is the first time that I've known about it that they worked that out.


Although they may try I don't think ESPN or Fox Sports will agree to that, but time will tell. We may have to purchase the "sports tier" for those channels eventually. Time will tell.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgillyjcu* /forum/post/13273463
> 
> 
> When does all this take effect?



Aw, come on. You don't really expect a definite date do you?










The letter said "around March 4."


----------



## nickdawg

That's *NHL Network* not NFL Network.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13274545
> 
> 
> That's *NHL Network* not NFL Network.



I thought that was strange. I looked at that thing several times too and everytime I thought it said NFL.


I could blame it on the small adobe screen, but I did expand it a bit.


Or I could just admit that I misread it. Either way you're correct.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13272850
> 
> 
> I'm test driving a Magnavox, its actually made by Funi (as I thought) rather than Philips as reported somewhere.
> 
> 
> The Zenith box is 59.99 @ Circuit City.



STB (Set Top Box) as Magnavox calls them.


Back panel:

Ant in & RF out, selectable 3/4 via the remote (default is 3), one set of AV jacks, audio out can be set to either the RF or RCS's via the setup menu (it would be nice to be able to use both at the same time)


Front panel:

LED Green=on Yellow=Standby, on/off switch on the right side.

Without the remote the box is worthless... remote seems a bit unsure at times though I'm using used batteries in it for now.


Programming guide per channel for up to 1-5 programs ahead depending on channel. Display also gives you the Channel/Signal strength.


I have not been able to get any info off of 55 WBNX, to its virtual channel, it programmed itself to 30.1 & that's what it displays.


picked up on my outdoor antenna 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 19.2, 30.1, 43.1, 43.2, 61.1.


Attic antenna: 5.1, 8.1, 43.1, 43.2, 61.1 (3.1 a pixalated mess, with some scanning was able to pick up 19.1, & 19.2 but often freezes & pixelates)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13272511
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that the new digital packages that TW is making is going to cost more to get the same channels that I do now.



I would have the feeling you are right. Pay more to get the same thing... or even less.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13272511
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that the new digital packages that TW is making is going to cost more to get the same channels that I do now.



Notice on the lineup there are more $5.00 charges. The "Digital Tier", the "Choice Tier", the "Sports Tier", "Movie Tier". What kind of clip joint are they running? Looks like we'll have to pay more for stuff we used to get.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13276238
> 
> 
> .......I have not been able to get any info off of 55 WBNX, to its virtual channel, it programmed itself to 30.1 & that's what it displays.
> 
> Attic antenna: 5.1, 8.1, 43.1, 43.2, 61.1 (3.1 a pixalated mess, with some scanning was able to pick up 19.1, & 19.2 but often freezes & pixelates)



I had the exact same results when using an amplified, directional attic antenna and a very good HDTV stb tuner (all digital stations came in fine except 3 & 19 which were hit and miss, pixelated, weak signal). When I went to a much smaller, outdoor, non-directional antenna I now get all channels without issue. Obviously I still don't get WVIZ.










I've yet to see 55 WBNX ever display any OTA data whatsoever, but it did properly map to 55-1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13276605
> 
> 
> Notice on the lineup there are more $5.00 charges. The "Digital Tier", the "Choice Tier", the "Sports Tier", "Movie Tier". What kind of clip joint are they running? Looks like we'll have to pay more for stuff we used to get.



Kind of but then they are giving some stuff that we had to pay extra for on the digital tier.


132 Science Channel

136 History International

139 Investigation Discovery

140 Biography

228 Fox Reality

275 ReelzChannel


There are a couple of others. But you are correct you will pay more for the Sports Tier for some stuff. Fortunately I don't watch it so I don't care.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, we're about 12 hours away from the "big day". I'm not expecting a channel reorganization tonight since they have never mailed the next letter with the lineup out yet. I still wonder about the other changes. Will channels that are supposed to be dropped/added (according to the Legal Notices ) be dropped or added tonight? It sounds like it has to do with contracts, so if a contract is up on March 4th, the channel should disappear. Also, channels should be added, like when TWC said TBS HD was going live on October 1st. I really don't know what to expect, although since this morning I've had lots of macroblocking on WEW HD and WJW HD. They both share a QAM(104.2; 104.3) so it seemed like they are doing something at the head end.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13279701
> 
> 
> Well, we're about 12 hours away from the "big day". I'm not expecting a channel reorganization tonight since they have never mailed the next letter with the lineup out yet. I still wonder about the other changes. Will channels that are supposed to be dropped/added (according to the Legal Notices ) be dropped or added tonight? It sounds like it has to do with contracts, so if a contract is up on March 4th, the channel should disappear. Also, channels should be added, like when TWC said TBS HD was going live on October 1st. I really don't know what to expect, although since this morning I've had lots of macroblocking on WEWS HD and WJW HD. They both share a QAM(104.2; 104.3) so it seemed like they are doing something at the head end.



I'm not seeing any macroblocking. I looked as soon as you posted. Now I'm not going to stare at Tyra Banks Show for too long however I can look at the view.


Moving on they did not say in the letter that the channels will appear on 3/4 they said on or around 3/4. And the channels that they said contracts would be ending doesn't mean they won't show those channels, only the channels that they said they were dropping will be removed. The legal thing about contracts expiring appears all the time, you can see it in the Plain Dealer. It's just a legal requirement, usually they work it out.


But they did name some specific channels that would be dropped and they probably will be once the line up change goes into effect. It will probably happen tonight, they like to do things on Tuesdays for some reason but maybe not in all areas.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13279874
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing any macroblocking. I looked as soon as you posted. Now I'm not going to stare at Tyra Banks Show for too long however I can look at the view.
> 
> 
> Moving on they did not say in the letter that the channels will appear on 3/4 they said on or around 3/4. And the channels that they said contracts would be ending doesn't mean they won't show those channels, only the channels that they said they were dropping will be removed. The legal thing about contracts expiring appears all the time, you can see it in the Plain Dealer. It's just a legal requirement, usually they work it out.
> 
> 
> But they did name some specific channels that would be dropped and they probably will be once the line up change goes into effect. It will probably happen tonight, they like to do things on Tuesdays for some reason but maybe not in all areas.



I think this is all just a govt. distraction conspiracy so people don't pay attention to the election/primary.


Just like when the govt. rolls out another *wacky* Michael Jackson story right in the middle of an investigation into govt. wrong doing.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/13270835
> 
> 
> Is CavaliersHD supposed to be FSN HD? Or do they only turn it on when the Cavs are playing?



FSN only does the Cavaliers, and the Columbus Blue Jackets, in HD. It doesn't feed 24/7. We've gotten the Blue Jackets games here, on former Adelphia 798 ("HD Bonus")...I don't know if the other new systems, or the "legacy" TWC Akron/Canton system, have gotten the Blue Jackets on that channel.


STO is going 24/7 HD shortly, which is why that was probably labeled so. They apparently upgraded their studios to HD (at WKYC, which makes sense) and will run all the regular season games in HD this year, including the replays.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13279874
> 
> 
> It will probably happen tonight, they like to do things on Tuesdays for some reason but maybe not in all areas.



When they changed us to digital simulcast on channels under 100 they changed a few channels every Tuesday night. I also noticed some of my channels not working over 100 on Tuesday nights recently. It seemed like they went by QAM b/c about 5 channels would be changed at a time.


----------



## nickdawg

The change probably will happen tonight--EVERYWHERE!


An item at Ohio Media Watch as well as WKYC's Directors Cut Blog says Weather Plus will be moving to channel 372 on ALL Time Warner systems effective March 4.


Also, OMW picked up on WBNS being added at 407.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Got my NEW channel line up along with explanation letter in the mail today.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13283291
> 
> 
> Got my NEW channel line up along with explanation letter in the mail today.



Where you at?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Canton/N.Canton


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13282849
> 
> 
> The change probably will happen tonight--EVERYWHERE!



All I can say is that the only person who ever really knew what date or at least close to what date these things would happen is handsworth. And he hasn't been around in a long time.


If it happens tomorrow quite honestly I will be very surprised. And I'll try to be the first to point it out to you if it doesn't.










To be fair, if it does happen tomorrow I'll try to be the first to admit your right.


I hope your taking your blood pressure meds, you sure are excited about this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13284347
> 
> 
> 
> I hope your taking your blood pressure meds, you sure are excited about this.



I've been waiting for WBNX-DT since the summer of 2006 when I went HD. Couldn't wait to see "Supernatural" in HD.







Then I was pi$$ed when the CW didn't go to WUAB(who had HD at the time). Now, I've been waiting ever since WBNX lit up in April '07.


Plus, I'm excited about the FOUR other chanels. They are probably the only ones we'll get this year. Look at last year, all we got was ESPN2 HD.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Also, now 19 and 5 have weather graphics over HD. Now 3 out of 4 stations are able to do this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13285272
> 
> 
> Plus, I'm excited about the FOUR other chanels. They are probably the only ones we'll get this year. Look at last year, all we got was ESPN2 HD.
> 
> .



Not to brag but we've had ESPN2 HD for two years. We also got TBSHD this year and UniversalHD as well.


And there will be much more to come because now that they have got the ball rolling on the channel alignments they can start working on SDV.


But the point is it really doesn't matter how many new HD channels they get. It's quality of programming and HD. History HD channel? Um, I don't think you will see much "HD" on that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13285806
> 
> 
> We also got TBSHD this year and UniversalHD as well.



Now you know how much I hate TBS!







It's mis-labeled. It SHOULD be *TBS Stretchovision Nightmare*. Even a waterboarding wouldn't get me to call that HD!










I really don't care for Universal HD. I don't get that channel. Again, they really didn't add anything special by adding that channel. I'd rather have the HD simulcast of USA. At least USA has some good programming(WWE, Monk, Psych, L&O, movies)



> Quote:
> But the point is it really doesn't matter how many new HD channels they get. It's quality of programming and HD. History HD channel? Um, I don't think you will see much "HD" on that.



At least History and A&E have _SOME_ HD content. That's more than can be said about that waste of bandwidth TBS. They should dump that crap. TBS: Very Funny Looking Picture


----------



## Tim Lones

With the new digital TWC lineups coming out, I thought I'd do a recheck of my QAM digital tuner (JVC 30" TV)


The Cleveland Channels now show up on their regular numbers

3-1 WKYC-HD

3-2 Weather Plus

5-1 WEWS

8-1 WJW

19-1 WOIO

19-2 Weather Now

43-1 WUAB

49-1 WEAO-HD

49-2 WEAO-SD


Beyond regular channel numbers:

94-2 WTOV Steubenville

94-6 Versus

100-2 WEWS-HD

123-1 WVIZ

123-2 WVIZ-2

123-5 WIVM

124 area (forget the exact channel numbers) Sprout and Reelz


also, on 94-1 I am getting a Local Bulletin Board for the Norton, Ohio area..Other new channels are Peace TV and La Familia..


----------



## Smarty-pants

Tim, mine have been that way for a several weeks now. Although I've got several other channels in the 94s. Like TBS, E!, Discovery.

I couldn't believe it when I saw them mapped correctly IE: 3.1 and it actually says WKYC-HD. Now I don't have to hear my wife say "What channel is it on again...?".









No 55.1 though... yet.










EDIT--- Also Tim, what is WVIZ-2?? Is that just the regular WVIZ-DT (non HD)? I wish I got that. My kids watch WVIZ every morning and to have it in digital would be nice.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13286948
> 
> 
> Tim, mine have been that way for a several weeks now. Although I've got several other channels in the 94s. Like TBS, E!, Discovery.
> 
> I couldn't believe it when I saw them mapped correctly IE: 3.1 and it actually says WKYC-HD. Now I don't have to hear my wife say "What channel is it on again...?".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No 55.1 though... yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT--- Also Tim, what is WVIZ-2?? Is that just the regular WVIZ-DT (non HD)? I wish I got that. My kids watch WVIZ every morning and to have it in digital would be nice.




It might well be, though I am not sure..It is diffferent programming from VIZ-1..I do most of my TV watching on Dish Network,,Most of the other cable channels you mention have been around awhile in the Qam lineup..I still think its odd about the Norton Bulletin Board though


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13286972
> 
> 
> It might well be, though I am not sure..It is diffferent programming from VIZ-1..I do most of my TV watching on Dish Network,,Most of the other cable channels you mention have been around awhile in the Qam lineup..I still think its odd about the Norton Bulletin Board though



Yah that "norton" feed is SOOO crappy. I think it's suposed to be some kind of local channel or something, but that "norton" is coming through because of them working on the system getting ready for the big change... I guess







(shrug)







.


----------



## nickdawg

WVIZ-2 is "The Ohio Channel". WVIZ-1 is PBS HD, independent of the regular PBS.


WNEO-2 is a digital version of the SD feed.


Anybody have any changes yet??


----------



## Smarty-pants

Oh, ok. I get THE OHIO CHANNEL, just not WVIZ-dt. I did a rescan about an hour and a half ago and no change for me, but I am not much help since I only subscribe to LIFELINE BASIC.


----------



## jtscherne

TBS will have its Sunday afternoon baseball series starting in April. At least that game will be in HD!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb 





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13286624
> 
> 
> Now you know how much I hate TBS!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's mis-labeled. It SHOULD be *TBS Stretchovision Nightmare*. Even a waterboarding wouldn't get me to call that HD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't care for Universal HD. I don't get that channel. Again, they really didn't add anything special by adding that channel. I'd rather have the HD simulcast of USA. At least USA has some good programming(WWE, Monk, Psych, L&O, movies)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least History and A&E have _SOME_ HD content. That's more than can be said about that waste of bandwidth TBS. They should dump that crap. TBS: Very Funny Looking Picture


----------



## hookbill

6:30 am. Wife gets up to turn off alarm. I reach for remote control.

6:31 am. I press 708. Fox News 8 in HD is on.

6:52 am. nickdawg, you were wrong.


----------



## ajstan99

FYI - WOW just added Big Ten HD on channel 219 of the basic HD tier.


While it's a May 2007 press release, it looks like the network is committed to providing lots of HD content as well:
http://www.bigtennetwork.com/corporate/PR5707b.asp 

_"The Big Ten Network will produce more than 350 events, totaling more than 1,000 hours of original high definition (HD) content within its first year.


The network will also produce all studio programming in HD and will be the most prolific producer of original HD content of any new network in television history.


The Big Ten Network plans to capture virtually its entire slate of high-profile men's football and basketball games in HD, beginning in August with the new 2007 season.


It will similarly produce women's basketball and softball in HD and plans to do the same across many other conference events such as baseball, soccer, swimming, track and field, tennis, gymnastics, volleyball, wrestling and other popular NCAA action.


The Big Ten Network is also providing campus content drawn from its 11 Big Ten university programs and is currently exploring HD opportunities for future campus-based series and specials."_


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13287671
> 
> 
> 6:30 am. Wife gets up to turn off alarm. I reach for remote control.
> 
> 6:31 am. I press 708. Fox News 8 in HD is on.
> 
> 6:52 am. nickdawg, you were wrong.



He has till midnight, THEN we string him up...







.


----------



## jtscherne

It's a great addition, although with basketball season just about over, it'll be interesting to see what other sports programming they'll have until football. They've been showing tons of HD college basketball and had at least 2 HD football games every week last fall.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/13290091
> 
> 
> FYI - WOW just added Big Ten HD on channel 219 of the basic HD tier.


----------



## hookbill

I can get channel 399 now on my STB. I couldn't get in on my S3. I'm doing a channel rescan now.


Line up however has not changed still.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13290134
> 
> 
> He has till midnight, THEN we string him up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



If they do a line up change in the middle of the day that would be pretty amazing, but maybe not all that bad of an idea. Isn't everyone at work during the day including the big shots?


Still you'd have to reboot the boxes and that wouldn't happen until probably let's say 12:01. So I say we string him up now.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Heck, last time thay did a channel realighnment on my system, they did it just as LOST was starting. 15 seconds into the show... BAM! I was pretty pissed to say the least. It takes like a half hour or more for my tv to do a complete scan, so I had to watch the show in SD. So they have done it before...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13290500
> 
> 
> Heck, last time thay did a channel realighnment on my system, they did it just as LOST was starting. 15 seconds into the show... BAM! I was pretty pissed to say the least. It takes like a half hour or more for my tv to do a complete scan, so I had to watch the show in SD. So they have done it before...



Geeze, that sucks. I hope they don't try that today.


----------



## Ben Music

Doesn't anyone know a TWC insider they could call to find out what's going on?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/13292083
> 
> 
> Doesn't anyone know a TWC insider they could call to find out what's going on?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I'll make a call. I don't know if I'll even get a response but I will try.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Go Hook go..


----------



## hookbill

OK, I got a response back from my headend contact. Here's what's going to happen and this is all she can really say at this point. They are going to change the "Time Warner Area" customers first. That means that they are going to move the people in the original TW areas digital alignnments. If that goes well they will go from there.


Now where they go next is anyones guess but this will not, and hear me loud and clear *nickdawg*, going to happen to everyone at one time. Who will be next is anyone's guess and how soon it will happen is also anyones guess. If things go smoothly with the first try they will move on to the another area.


Now she knows I'm in the "Adelphia" area so it's not going to be me right away or probably any other ex Adelphia customers. So if it's Comcast next or Adelphia, part of Adelphia....who knows.


But she did say Time Warner Area tonight.


Now being an S3 owner I asked about how that is going to work with Tribune Media who does our guide and she assures me that they will be in contact with them to let them know when any changes are made so you should see them as soon as they happen if you own a TiVo.


So sit tight, relax, and let it play out.


----------



## paule123

WVIZ having problems with the 6pm Newshour feed. Audio is fine but the picture has this whacky scrolling thing going on. Watching via D*.


Edit: Looks fine on 7pm Newshour via PBS 49.


The 7pm Nightly Business Report on WVIZ is also screwed up. WVIZ must be having some major equipment issues.


----------



## ed1202

Hey everyone,


Just found the forum a few days ago. Lots of good info here.


I too had a few questions for Time Warner, so I decided to call them today. Lucked out and got a extremely helpful and informative CSR (that's not always the case.  Anyhow she said "the realignment has begun" and I can confirm what Hook said in that "Time Warner's native areas would be done first" namely Akron/Canton system tonight (5th) "If all goes well". I figured as much since it's close to TW's central hub in Canton. (Yea for me, I live in Akron.) There were a lot of "if's" in her statements and it seemed to me that the techs tonight will be collectively holding their breath to see if this goes well. If it does, the roll-out will continue as planned, area by area. If not, expect delays. By the way, the recording when I called said, "if you're calling about channel realignment occuring in March and April..." so they've already built in a large window for this.


Hopefully we'll have something to report tomorrow...


-Ed


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/13294210
> 
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> 
> Just found the forum a few days ago. Lots of good info here.
> 
> 
> I too had a few questions for Time Warner, so I decided to call them today. Lucked out and got a extremely helpful and informative CSR (that's not always the case.  Anyhow she said "the realignment has begun" and I can confirm what Hook said in that "Time Warner's native areas would be done first" namely Akron/Canton system tonight (5th) "If all goes well". I figured as much since it's close to TW's central hub in Canton. (Yea for me, I live in Akron.) There were a lot of "if's" in her statements and it seemed to me that the techs tonight will be collectively holding their breath to see if this goes well. If it does, the roll-out will continue as planned, area by area. If not, expect delays. By the way, the recording when I called said, "if you're calling about channel realignment occuring in March and April..." so they've already built in a large window for this.
> 
> 
> Hopefully we'll have something to report tomorrow...
> 
> 
> -Ed



GOOD INFO! Thanks and welcome to AVS







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/13294210
> 
> 
> By the way, the recording when I called said, "if you're calling about channel realignment occuring in March and April..." so they've already built in a large window for this.-Ed




Hi Ed, and welcome to the forum. Since you confirmed what I found out I'll spare you from my "never believe anything customer service says" speach. Anyway, you seem to be aware of that already.










In that recording you mentioned about "March and April" - did they specify a year?


----------



## dleising

One thing that I have noticed that others may want to check...


The TWC "My Account" feature on channel 100 no longer works for me (I don't use it regularly so it could have been out a while), and a couple higher channels, like HIST International just show a black screen.


Anybody else with these problems?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13294789
> 
> 
> One thing that I have noticed that others may want to check...
> 
> 
> The TWC "My Account" feature on channel 100 no longer works for me (I don't use it regularly so it could have been out a while), and a couple higher channels, like HIST International just show a black screen.
> 
> 
> Anybody else with these problems?



Kind of sounds like you've got RF problems. Any feature that interacts with a back office system (like an account feature) has to involve a functioning upstream path as well as the downstream RF. Can you check your connectors, maybe eliminate any splitters in the path to pick up a few db?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13295293
> 
> 
> Kind of sounds like you've got RF problems. Any feature that interacts with a back office system (like an account feature) has to involve a functioning upstream path as well as the downstream RF. Can you check your connectors, maybe eliminate any splitters in the path to pick up a few db?



Perhaps. We have 7 TVs (only 2 with boxes). 2 splitters that everything goes through. I may have to play with our setup or get some amplification.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13295599
> 
> 
> Perhaps. We have 7 TVs (only 2 with boxes). 2 splitters that everything goes through. I may have to play with our setup or get some amplification.



Try the passives first, with amplification as a last resort. And if you do choose to amp it, make sure you get an amp that's two-way. A two-way amp contains diplexing filters that separate the forward and reverse bands and send each one in the appropriate direction.


Good luck and let us know how it works out.


----------



## nickdawg

Disney West is gone. As noted in the original programming notices, Disney west was one of the channels that was being removed on or around March 4th.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13292718
> 
> 
> 
> Now where they go next is anyones guess but this will not, and hear me loud and clear *nickdawg*, going to happen to everyone at one time. Who will be next is anyone's guess and how soon it will happen is also anyones guess. If things go smoothly with the first try they will move on to the another area.



Why do you single ME out, *hookbill*? Don't sahoot the messenger! I just reported what I read from OMW and WKYC. I'd expect Frank Macek to know what he is talking about since WKYC has close contact with TW through the Akron-Canton news.


----------



## paule123

It's 12:30am and WVIZ is still hosed - showing their bug but a black screen.


Also getting a fuzzy screen on PBS 49 - looks like it's from the source - started about the time the ice storm came in, but all the other locals look good.


Watching on D*


----------



## Smarty-pants

I don't know if they'll be doing the new line-up tonight. The ice here in Canto is HERENDOUS to say the least. My wife was driving through Canton coming home around 10:00 and she said there were power lines down, large tree limbs, fire trucks and police everywhere trying to help. They may just not want to have to deal with all that if cable lines are down too. We shall see...


----------



## Tim Lones

I live in Southwest Canton, about a block from Aultman Hospital, and our power was out from just before 10-just after midnight..In calling AEP, there were scattered weather related outages throughout Canton..


----------



## dleising

MTV2 Analog has been added for me on Channel 34. No digital changes yet. TNT channel 41 is frozen along with channel 71. Channels 77, 78, and 79 have also been removed on the analog lineup.


----------



## ed1202

Good morning!


Thanks for the welcome guys (and girls, if there are any here...)


Woke up, turned on the TV and... no change. But with the weather and all, I'm just glad I had *ANY* signal at all.







Weather may have been a factor. There was a lot going on last night with that alone.


Well we'll see if, as Rod Stewart says, "Tonight's the night..."


-Ed


----------



## Rbuchina

There was a story in the News Harald this morning about the TWC channel shuffle going on. It stated that the Akron/Canton area would see the changes first with cleveland and suburbs seeing the changes between the second and last week of March.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13296088
> 
> 
> Why do you single ME out, *hookbill*? Don't sahoot the messenger! I just reported what I read from OMW and WKYC. I'd expect Frank Macek to know what he is talking about since WKYC has close contact with TW through the Akron-Canton news.



nickdawg, no harm meant really. I picked on you because you were so intense on the whole thing yesterday. Which caused me to get intense. And a couple of others as well. So after I made the phone call and got the straight story I decided to point to you. It really wasn't meant to be mean but I could see how when you read it you would think that. I should have put an emotion up there.


I apologize for picking on you. And I accept your apology for getting me all worked up.


Oh, wait. You haven't had the opportunity to do that yet. Well, now you don't have to bother because I've already accepted it.










BTW, OMW is a great source and I use them all the time too. That's why I believed you when you said it would happen all at once.


Sorry it took so long to get this to you. I had it all written out and the cable went down.


----------



## nickdawg

WOW, HELL of a channel realignment Time Warner!!
























Let's see, every channel is the same excepr that WE and Oxygen are moved. I aslo am getting MTV2 on the analog side. Still isn't mapped to digital 34.


Time Warner = DIRTY F***ING LIARS!!!


----------



## jtscherne

Last time I checked a dictionary, "On or About" gives you some leeway.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13299583
> 
> 
> WOW, HELL of a channel realignment Time Warner!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, every channel is the same excepr that WE and Oxygen are moved. I aslo am getting MTV2 on the analog side. Still isn't mapped to digital 34.
> 
> 
> Time Warner = DIRTY F***ING LIARS!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13299583
> 
> 
> WOW, HELL of a channel realignment Time Warner!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, every channel is the same excepr that WE and Oxygen are moved. I aslo am getting MTV2 on the analog side. Still isn't mapped to digital 34.
> 
> 
> Time Warner = DIRTY F***ING LIARS!!!



I hate coming to any cable companies defense but first we had this little thing called an ice storm to deal with. It knocked out power at my house at around 1:00 am. Then, just as I was writing my apology to you the cable went down.


This is not going to be an easy thing to pull off. And you know when they change the message to "March-April" in cable terminology that could include May and June.


----------



## paule123

I beleive today's 1pm game is the first Indians preseason game televised on STO - anybody know if it's supposed to be in HD - and if it is, why DirecTV has not added a 657-1 HD channel to the lineup ? Every other RSN in the country has their HD channel mapped out in the guide except for of course, Cleveland


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13299742
> 
> 
> I beleive today's 1pm game is the first Indians preseason game televised on STO - anybody know if it's supposed to be in HD - and if it is, why DirecTV has not added a 657-1 HD channel to the lineup ? Every other RSN in the country has their HD channel mapped out in the guide except for of course, Cleveland



I don't think the pre season games are in HD. Sorry.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13299799
> 
> 
> I don't think the pre season games are in HD. Sorry.



Ooops, guess you're right...


Tuesday, February 19, 2008

STO in HD....

This will be the season for us to transition into high definition television for the entire regular season. (*Don't try to adjust your set during spring training - those games will still be in standard definition.*)

http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/from_the_...sto-in-hd.html


----------



## dleising

GAC analog channel 47 now has color bars on it. This was one of the channels slated to be moved to digital. TW may be taking care of the analog channels first before moving to the digital lineup.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13299960
> 
> 
> Ooops, guess you're right...




Finally for the first time in weeks I got something right!


----------



## jtscherne

Actually, the Indians will be in HD on Friday, but on ESPN vs. the Mets.


But no HD on STO until the regular season.


----------



## jtscherne

5 paragraphs down:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/dhall030508.htm


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13296023
> 
> 
> Try the passives first, with amplification as a last resort. And if you do choose to amp it, make sure you get an amp that's two-way. A two-way amp contains diplexing filters that separate the forward and reverse bands and send each one in the appropriate direction.
> 
> 
> Good luck and let us know how it works out.



Question...


If I have say a 4 way splitter that only has 3 cables plugged into it, would it affect performance rather than using a 3 way splitter?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13302325
> 
> 
> Question...
> 
> 
> If I have say a 4 way splitter that only has 3 cables plugged into it, would it affect performance rather than using a 3 way splitter?



The passive splitters I have seen have higher levels of dB loss the more outputs they have, so get a splitter with the minimum number of outputs needed.


My numbers are not exact, but it's something like this:

2 way splitter - 3.5db loss

3 way splitter - 5.5db loss

4 way splitter - 7db loss


For example check the list here:
http://www.cabletvamps.com/splitters.htm


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13302681
> 
> 
> The passive splitters I have seen have higher levels of dB loss the more outputs they have, so get a splitter with the minimum number of outputs needed.
> 
> 
> My numbers are not exact, but it's something like this:
> 
> 2 way splitter - 3.5db loss
> 
> 3 way splitter - 5.5db loss
> 
> 4 way splitter - 7db loss
> 
> 
> For example check the list here:
> http://www.cabletvamps.com/splitters.htm



What Paule123 said.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Can someone tell me if the latest hi-def, non-dvr, cable box from TimeWarner has a firewire port? I'm on the West Side of Cleveland.


----------



## TivoSavedTV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13299596
> 
> 
> Last time I checked a dictionary, "On or About" gives you some leeway.



In Columbus, TW has been moving AZN and Jewelry TV to the 100+s for "On or About" the last 5 months. To date neither has budged. In fact, the last announcement in our paper changed to keeping AZN until April - when it would be dropped altogether - and announced 4 new HD channels will be coming "On or About" 3/20, 1 of which - STO - we have already had for a couple of years. I'm not holding my breath.


- I refuse to put much stock in TW's announcements. If I didn't have such a tremendous deal from them, I would have jumped ship a long time ago.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13304663
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me if the latest hi-def, non-dvr, cable box from TimeWarner has a firewire port? I'm on the West Side of Cleveland.



Don't know the answer to your question, but what are you hooking it up to? Firewire support is terrible. When I had the SA8300HD from WOW, even though firewire was enabled, it does not work with a Windows XP PC (only a Mac). Connected to my JVC DVHS deck all the recordings were filled with glitches. Then there's the issue of the copy protection flags being implemented properly. In short, firewire as currently implemented by the cable companies is a complete disaster.


----------



## nosey313

For pissing me off to no end. I finally got to watch the latest episode on my DVR tonight. Not only are there precious few episodes of Jericho left, but you managed to ruin one of them. Seriously, what is wrong with you? Learn how to overlay election/weather graphics without switching off your HD feed. It was funny (not funny haha, but funny lame) to see the SD feed (on an HD channel) overlaid with election results graphics that said "19 Action News *HD*". What part of that was HD? Answer: none of it. And to top it all off, when CBS had it's own graphic overlay, it scrunched the picture even more. Election graphics within election graphics within an SD feed. Screw you.


You have no business randomly switching off the HD feed to show stupid crap like election graphics (Anyone interested would be watching CNN or reading about local results in the morning). Or stupid crap like weather warnings that permanently require an SD feed throughout a show. Chances are, if someone is watching Jericho, you don't have to keep the graphics on the whole time. Once after every commercial break would suffice. The graphics must not be important enough if you don't scrunch advertisers' commercials. Obviously we know what's more important to you.


Seriously, get new technology and don't flip on the SD feed for every freaking school closing/weather warning/election result. Other stations are doing it, so should you. Way to piss me off. Don't do it again during the last three episodes. You have been warned.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13304663
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me if the latest hi-def, non-dvr, cable box from TimeWarner has a firewire port? I'm on the West Side of Cleveland.



TW no longer issues non dvr HD boxes. They only offer the HDDVR at no additional cost. I don't know how the firewire port works on those but since they are the SA 8300 HDC I can tell you that they are not good machines.


My advice is to get either a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD. That way you can communicate with your computer either through USB or Wireless network.


I have a HD STB on one of my HDTV's and I plan on replaceing it with a TiVo HD. They offered me a free DVR recently but my experience with the SA 8300 is so bad I would never consider it.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13305214
> 
> 
> TW no longer issues non dvr HD boxes. They only offer the HDDVR at no additional cost. I don't know how the firewire port works on those but since they are the SA 8300 HDC I can tell you that they are not good machines.
> 
> 
> My advice is to get either a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD. That way you can communicate with your computer either through USB or Wireless network.
> 
> 
> I have a HD STB on one of my HDTV's and I plan on replaceing it with a TiVo HD. They offered me a free DVR recently but my experience with the SA 8300 is so bad I would never consider it.



Actually I was able to get a refurbed TiVoHD for $185 delivered with 3 free months of service, and TimeWarner finally game me a decent deal on Digital cable with no movie channels. Timewarner is giving me two STB's without the PVR service with the deal that I got. Now I just pray I can get an M-Card with the installation!


Regarding the Firewire, I just want to be able to hook it up through my JVC D-VHS (like I used to with my Motorola 6412) and watch the Time Warner STB through that. That sucks about the copyright protection though. I always heard that about the 6412 though, and I had no problems with the copyright protection flag with the one I had.


Also, does the TiVoHD come with a regular network port? I never bothered to check the specs. I just assumed that it did.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13305214
> 
> 
> TW no longer issues non dvr HD boxes. They only offer the HDDVR at no additional cost.




I've had an SA8300HD box from Adelphia/TWC for well over a year. I needed it only as an HDTV converter. The DVR features are turned off and I haven't paid the extra $7 a month for them. I pay $7.65 for the HDTV converter and 31 cents for its remote control.


Today I get a letter from Steven Fry telling me that TWC has neglected to charge me for the DVR that I have and will now add that charge to my bill, meanwhile sending me coupons for a discount(!) over the next three months. There is no mention of turning on the DVR feature, which I've never wanted.


So I called customer service and got "Tyrone" in the Dayton office, who had no knowledge of the SA8300HD--he didn't know it was a combined DVR/HDTV converter and insisted I must have gotten two pieces of equipment and hadn't been paying for one of them. He also didn't know anything about the new cable lineup (I had a pricing question) and couldn't find anything about it. When I asked to talk to a supervisor, Tyrone said he would take my phone number, but then he told me that the supervisor wouldn't call me back. Soon after that, he hung up on me.


I wrote this up and emailed it to Steve Fry (thanks to whoever posted his email address here a few days ago). We'll see if he can resolve this without my having to make a needless trip to a TWC service center.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, it's 11:35. Think it will happen tonight?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13305413
> 
> 
> Timewarner is giving me two STB's without the PVR service with the deal that I got. Now I just pray I can get an M-Card with the installation!



I might be reading into this a bit too much, but are you hoping to move the card from the STB to the Tivo? I'm about 99% sure this won't work w/o TWC's blessing - the card serial numbers have to match with the STB or Tivo serial number in TWC's computers. I have two S-cards in my TivoHD, and even just swapping them makes everything break.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13305413
> 
> 
> Also, does the TiVoHD come with a regular network port? I never bothered to check the specs. I just assumed that it did.



It does have an ethernet port on it - I believe it's 10/100.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13305953
> 
> 
> I wrote this up and emailed it to Steve Fry (thanks to whoever posted his email address here a few days ago). We'll see if he can resolve this without my having to make a needless trip to a TWC service center.



Hey if you guys keep this up, there won't be any CSR's left at TWC to answer your questions.


----------



## nickdawg

Be sure to thank Stevie fo being so helpful in telling us when this transition will happen!

















Also, we are getting Navigator. Whenever your channel lineup card comes, the letter with it says the guide will be changing soon and more info will be sent.


I'm hoping for a BEST CASE SCENARIO and the "change" will be to SARA.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13306509
> 
> 
> I might be reading into this a bit too much, but are you hoping to move the card from the STB to the Tivo? I'm about 99% sure this won't work w/o TWC's blessing - the card serial numbers have to match with the STB or Tivo serial number in TWC's computers. I have two S-cards in my TivoHD, and even just swapping them makes everything break.



You are reading into this too much.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13306509
> 
> 
> It does have an ethernet port on it - I believe it's 10/100.



Thank you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13305953
> 
> 
> I've had an SA8300HD box from Adelphia/TWC for well over a year. I needed it only as an HDTV converter. The DVR features are turned off and I haven't paid the extra $7 a month for them. I pay $7.65 for the HDTV converter and 31 cents for its remote control.
> 
> 
> Today I get a letter from Steven Fry telling me that TWC has neglected to charge me for the DVR that I have and will now add that charge to my bill, meanwhile sending me coupons for a discount(!) over the next three months. There is no mention of turning on the DVR feature, which I've never wanted.
> 
> 
> So I called customer service and got "Tyrone" in the Dayton office, who had no knowledge of the SA8300HD--he didn't know it was a combined DVR/HDTV converter and insisted I must have gotten two pieces of equipment and hadn't been paying for one of them. He also didn't know anything about the new cable lineup (I had a pricing question) and couldn't find anything about it. When I asked to talk to a supervisor, Tyrone said he would take my phone number, but then he told me that the supervisor wouldn't call me back. Soon after that, he hung up on me.
> 
> 
> I wrote this up and emailed it to Steve Fry (thanks to whoever posted his email address here a few days ago). We'll see if he can resolve this without my having to make a needless trip to a TWC service center.




If you can call customer service today and get a different rep. This dude doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. If you've had the DVR for a year, even without the service they will charge you for the rental of the box anyway. That's how TW rips people off.


You probably won't get a response from Mr. Fry but his secretary will shoot it out to whomever is suppose to handle it. They may offer you free DVR service but if you don't want to pay for it in a year, then don't accept it.


As I mentioned earlier they tried to get me to turn in my HDSTB for a DVR (with service "free") but I'm not going to do that. Once my income tax comes in I'll get a TiVo HD to replace it.


----------



## hookbill




nickdawg said:


> *Also, we are getting Navigator*. Whenever your channel lineup card comes, the letter with it says the guide will be changing soon and more info will be sent.
> 
> 
> I'm hoping for a BEST CASE SCENARIO and the "change" will be to SARA.
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> 
> I don't understand. Are they telling you now you have to turn in your passport box?


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## rick490

There is a decent article about the TWC change today on www.ohio.com .


Here is part of what the article said.


"The changes will be gradual and continue into late March and early April, depending on where you live.


First up for change were the city of Green, New Franklin, Clinton and small parts of Barberton on Wednesday.


Kent, Rittman and Wadsworth are next, probably the week of March 10, when the cities of Akron and Canton should also see changes."


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## pbarach

I appreciate all of your suggestions! I did email Steve Fry last night at the email address you provided, so I'll wait a day or two and see what happens next before trying one of the other ideas.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13308329
> 
> 
> There is a decent article about the TWC change today on www.ohio.com .
> 
> 
> Here is part of what the article said.
> 
> 
> "The changes will be gradual and continue into late March and early April, depending on where you live.
> 
> 
> First up for change were the city of Green, New Franklin, Clinton and small parts of Barberton on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> Kent, Rittman and Wadsworth are next, probably the week of March 10, when the cities of Akron and Canton should also see changes."




Thanks for the info. First let me put a direct link so you don't have to search here .


The article ends a bit disturbing. It talks about possible loss of pre recorded shows and recommends backing up to VHS or DVD. While back up is always a good idea in anything that has to do with digital or computer equipment, I wouldn't worry a great deal about that. However if you feel differently that's up to you.


Anyway do you really want to back up your HD shows to VHS?


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## Michael P 2341

WQHS's top tower light is out again! Who did you call last time?


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## stuart628

Well I live in green, so I guess I will be the first to report when this happens, so far nothing, but I am hoping for tommorow!


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## nickdawg




hookbill said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13306642
> 
> *Also, we are getting Navigator*. Whenever your channel lineup card comes, the letter with it says the guide will be changing soon and more info will be sent.
> 
> 
> I'm hoping for a BEST CASE SCENARIO and the "change" will be to SARA.
> 
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> 
> 
> I don't understand. Are they telling you now you have to turn in your passport box?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. There is a version of Navigator that can be downloaded on the existing boxes. One version-ODN(OCAP Digital Navigator) has used for the new OCAP boxes since last July. Another version-MDN(Mystro Digital Navigator) is used on the "legacy" non-OCAP boxes.
> 
> 
> Unless TW ever decides to do a *MAJOR* upgrade to the system(like going MPEG4), they won't recall the boxes. Any box originally issued/activaed before 7/1/07 can still be used. Just new non-OCAP boxes can be manufactured or issued.
Click to expand...


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## hookbill




nickdawg said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13307435
> 
> 
> 
> No. There is a version of Navigator that can be downloaded on the existing boxes. One version-ODN(OCAP Digital Navigator) has used for the new OCAP boxes since last July. Another version-MDN(Mystro Digital Navigator) is used on the "legacy" non-OCAP boxes.
> 
> 
> Unless TW ever decides to do a *MAJOR* upgrade to the system(like going MPEG4), they won't recall the boxes. Any box originally issued/activaed before 7/1/07 can still be used. Just new non-OCAP boxes can be manufactured or issued.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> Oh god, that sucks big time. Sorry to hear that nickdawg. But don't forget you can defeat the evil cable company with that TiVo HD
> 
> 
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> .
Click to expand...


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13302681
> 
> 
> The passive splitters I have seen have higher levels of dB loss the more outputs they have, so get a splitter with the minimum number of outputs needed.
> 
> 
> My numbers are not exact, but it's something like this:
> 
> 2 way splitter - 3.5db loss
> 
> 3 way splitter - 5.5db loss
> 
> 4 way splitter - 7db loss
> 
> 
> For example check the list here:
> http://www.cabletvamps.com/splitters.htm



I've often picked a few of these up bad out of the box (wonder why, all made in china if that matters), reason I'm hesitant on splitting my roof antenna since it is servicing 6 other units, smaller antenna & it still gets the job done, I'm split somewhere internally also. I figured it would be the end on 19 If I split it, my place is still internally wired with RG59.


Might want to add, watch the Frequency range on these splitters, & terminate unused branches with a terminator.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13277763
> 
> 
> I had the exact same results when using an amplified, directional attic antenna and a very good HDTV stb tuner (all digital stations came in fine except 3 & 19 which were hit and miss, pixelated, weak signal). When I went to a much smaller, outdoor, non-directional antenna I now get all channels without issue. Obviously I still don't get WVIZ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've yet to see 55 WBNX ever display any OTA data whatsoever, but it did properly map to 55-1.



Funny when I tested an Insignia TV it did Map & gave info, but a Sony wouldn't. I've deleted it & rescanned, but still won't map it to 55.1... flaws in the system, On the station end or my STB I wonder?


----------



## hershsa

I currently am a digital subscriber and I use the QAM tuner in my TV for local HD channels and TNT, HD Theater, and HD Bonus. I was waiting to get the non-DVR box (because it would be free) but that is looking like it will never happen. I spoke with a sales person and she said that when i get the non-dvr box or even a dvr box i would get more HD channels as in ESPN,ESPN2, TBS etc for no additional cost. Is this true that there is no fee for those HD channels?


I guess i was under the impression that it cost extra for those channels but since it doesn't it somewhat justifies me getting the DVR box since I thought i would have to pay for the additional channels.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13313226
> 
> 
> I currently am a digital subscriber and I use the QAM tuner in my TV for local HD channels and TNT, HD Theater, and HD Bonus. I was waiting to get the non-DVR box (because it would be free) but that is looking like it will never happen. I spoke with a sales person and she said that when i get the non-dvr box or even a dvr box i would get more HD channels as in ESPN,ESPN2, TBS etc for no additional cost. Is this true that there is no fee for those HD channels?
> 
> 
> I guess i was under the impression that it cost extra for those channels but since it doesn't it somewhat justifies me getting the DVR box since I thought i would have to pay for the additional channels.



The only channels you pay additional for on HD anymore is HDnet, HDmovies, Mojo, and Universal. Those channels are 5 bucks more. All other HD channels are free.


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## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13313260
> 
> 
> The only channels you pay additional for on HD anymore is HDnet, HDmovies, Mojo, and Universal. Those channels are 5 bucks more. All other HD channels are free.



Thanks for the quick response. Man I'm used to the old days where ESPN was extra. I can't wait for the girlfriend to come home and tell her we can get DVR and more HD channels for only $7 (cost of the DVR). I don't need to mention the channels are free, do I?


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## Nutman

Hello all I just purchase a RCA indoor HDTV antenna and I must say it works really well I receive channel 5 & 8 in perfect HD, but I cannot get channel 3 at all on HD. Is there something going on with their HD signal. Thanks for any info. I live 25 to 30 miles west of Cleveland.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nutman* /forum/post/13313313
> 
> 
> Hello all I just purchase a RCA indoor HDTV antenna and I must say it works really well I receive channel 5 & 8 in perfect HD, but I cannot get channel 3 at all on HD. Is there something going on with their HD signal. Thanks for any info. I live 25 to 30 miles west of Cleveland.



I don't know much about OTA but take a look at www.antennaeweb.org . They will give you some idea of what your reception chances are. And there are lots of guys who can tell you about different antennaes and stuff. Just not me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13313311
> 
> 
> Thanks for the quick response. Man I'm used to the old days where ESPN was extra. I can't wait for the girlfriend to come home and tell her we can get DVR and more HD channels for only $7 (cost of the DVR). I don't need to mention the channels are free, do I?



I always feel it's my duty to inform people that the DVR that TW gives is a real pos and this new software they are using called navigator is not getting any rave reviews.


However if you've never had a DVR before you may think it's sweet. If it works OK for you, records like it's suppose to, and you don't notice that your picture now is full of pixelation and macroblocking then you will be very happy. But there are better things available (see my signature).


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## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13313411
> 
> 
> I always feel it's my duty to inform people that the DVR that TW gives is a real pos and this new software they are using called navigator is not getting any rave reviews.
> 
> 
> However if you've never had a DVR before you may think it's sweet. If it works OK for you, records like it's suppose to, and you don't notice that your picture now is full of pixelation and macroblocking then you will be very happy. But there are better things available (see my signature).



I have followed this thread for a little bit now and have noticed where you stand. Actually i have question about that. Say i were to switch to Tivo. Would you be able to tell me off hand how much it would cost a month to use it as my DVR and get those ESPN channels and what not? I understand that there is the initial cost of the box which i dont mind.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13313552
> 
> 
> I have followed this thread for a little bit now and have noticed where you stand. Actually i have question about that. Say i were to switch to Tivo. Would you be able to tell me off hand how much it would cost a month to use it as my DVR and get those ESPN channels and what not? I understand that there is the initial cost of the box which i dont mind.



When you think of buying a TiVo you have to look at the big picture. Advantages and disadvantages. First lets talk about SDV. That's what cable will be using to add HD channels so they can compete with D*. TiVo's hardware is not capable of two way communication, however cable companies and TiVo are working to produce a USB device that will plug into your TiVo so that you can use SDV. This is suppose to be available second quarter of this year. What the cable company charges for it is anyones guess but figure 7 bucks. I don't know if you will be able to use on demand, but I don't see why not.


Right now however in our area there is no SDV and I don't think there will be for a while so hopefully the USB device will be available by that time. Either way not all HD channels, or digital channels for that matter will all be SDV when it does happen. And you will get every channel that you get with the cable DVR. That's by law, so if something doesn't work they got to fix it. Unless of course you have a bad TiVo but generally it's the cable company's fault.


NowTiVo wants to give you a free DVR but the truth is they will in one year start charging you for using that DVR 7.00. The same as the USB.







Also you don't pay for the DVR service because it's not your DVR that you are using.


You will pay for the cable cards. Mine are suppose to be 3.50 each however at one time they were suppose to be 1.99 for the one and 4.99 for the second one. Right around 7 dollars. TW likes that number. But they only charge me 2.50 each. This seems to change with other people who have TW so I can't tell you what that will cost for sure.


Then you have to pay for TiVo Service. I bought a 3 year package for 299.00. You can also pay by the month but I'm not sure what that is.


What you get for your service is a much better interface, better search features, TiVo to Go (watch on another device) Tivo to Come Back (like AVI films). If you have a wireless network you can move your shows from your DVR to your Computer or any other TiVo. If you have a laptop you can run a USB to your laptop and have TiVo use the internet to get your guide. You can program on line. You can set up "Season Passes" with choices of "first run only, or first run and repeats." You can download movies from Amazon.com directly to your TiVo. You can set up a "wishlist" to either find programs that arn't currently available and auto record them or maybe if like me you like to watch concerts you can scroll through "HD Music" and pick what you like to record.


There are lots of other bells and whistles but the main reason for my buying a TiVo is reliability. With the SA 8300 I would get partial recordings, no recordings, massive macroblocking and sound drop offs. Heck I didn't know what good HD was until I got my TiVo. You get a longer guide. More disk space. It makes you bacon and eggs in the morning. Well, OK that's not true.










People in the TiVo forum actually say it pays for itself in the long run. I never did the math so I can't say that. All I know is TiVo is so much more then just a DVR. I play my music that I have on my computer through it via optical digital to my amplifier.


You can probably demo a TiVo at a big box store. If you do and you get the SA 8300 you will send it packing so fast. Just trying to find a show is a major headache.


I will also tell you that many people have the SA 8300 and tell me they never experienced the problems I did as far as recordings. However many have also told me they have.


You want great HD, a reliable DVR. Get a TiVo. I'm partial to the S3 but the TiVo HD is a great box for the money.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13313311
> 
> 
> Thanks for the quick response. Man I'm used to the old days where ESPN was extra. I can't wait for the girlfriend to come home and tell her we can get DVR and more HD channels for only $7 (cost of the DVR). I don't need to mention the channels are free, do I?



They are charging $7.96 a month for the SA8300HD, which is a combination HD converter and DVR, *PLUS* there is an additional $6.95 a month for having the DVR feature in operation.


Today a customer service rep told me that anybody who has the SA8300HD will have their DVR service turned on soon, whether they want it or not, and they will have to pay the $6.95 a month. TWNEO does offer a converter that _doesn't_ have a DVR built in; they will be happy to rent you one of those, but there is a three-month waiting list for them, and meanwhile they intend to charge the $6.95 a month for the DVR service that you may or may not want, on top of the $7.96 charge for the HD converter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13314842
> 
> 
> They are charging $7.96 a month for the SA8300HD, which is a combination HD converter and DVR, *PLUS* there is an additional $6.95 a month for having the DVR feature in operation.
> 
> 
> Today a customer service rep told me that anybody who has the SA8300HD will have their DVR service turned on soon, whether they want it or not, and they will have to pay the $6.95 a month. TWNEO does offer a converter that _doesn't_ have a DVR built in; they will be happy to rent you one of those, but there is a three-month waiting list for them, and meanwhile they intend to charge the $6.95 a month for the DVR service that you may or may not want, on top of the $7.96 charge for the HD converter.



Yeah, that's why they sent me the letter saying they wanted to "upgrade" me to a DVR service because I do have a HD STB. Actually the DVR would have been free....for a while though they don't say that. And then they would hit you with the DVR charge.


Tax refunds are coming and when they get here I will give them their STB back. Of course I will replace it with an HD TiVo.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13314842
> 
> 
> They are charging $7.96 a month for the SA8300HD, which is a combination HD converter and DVR, *PLUS* there is an additional $6.95 a month for having the DVR feature in operation.
> 
> 
> Today a customer service rep told me that anybody who has the SA8300HD will have their DVR service turned on soon, whether they want it or not, and they will have to pay the $6.95 a month. TWNEO does offer a converter that _doesn't_ have a DVR built in; they will be happy to rent you one of those, but there is a three-month waiting list for them, and meanwhile they intend to charge the $6.95 a month for the DVR service that you may or may not want, on top of the $7.96 charge for the HD converter.



See the lady i spoke with was saying my bill would only increase $7.20 if i got the dvr box (could have been hiding something). Now I will ask again when i go to get the DVR box though. From my understanding though the non-dvr box is free.


The thing is i dont even know if its worth discussing because the numbers she gave me differ completely from what is on the flier i got yesterday. It is all just so comical. I will let you guys know what happens tomorrow after i stop by TW.


----------



## hershsa

Thanks Hook for the Tivo/TW DVR information. I will have to digest it for a night or two and certainly do some research of my own. For the time being i will test out the SA 8300 and see if it meets my needs, while looking for the cons you spoke about.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13315294
> 
> 
> Thanks Hook for the Tivo/TW DVR information. I will have to digest it for a night or two and certainly do some research of my own. For the time being i will test out the SA 8300 and see if it meets my needs, while looking for the cons you spoke about.



You never know what your missing if you don't actually use it. That's why many people don't question the cable DVR, many even call it a TiVo.


I say hey, if you like it and it suits your purposes then go for it.


One of the reasons I was so displeased with it to start was I had been using D* prior to moving to NEO and it had TiVo software. So when I saw the SA 8300 it was kind of like driving a BMW and now here's this Pinto. Still I would have kept it if not for the recording issues. I thought all that macroblocking and pixelation was just normal for HD.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13308329
> 
> 
> Kent, Rittman and Wadsworth are next, probably the week of March 10, when the cities of Akron and Canton should also see changes."



No No No!!!










I'm dreading this here in Wadsworth Township. TWC seems unable to keep the basic service operational compared to my previous providers. We went through a month of signal quality issues that they couldn't figure out even with multiple supervisors visiting.


I'll set my expectations low...perhaps they'll exceed them for once.


----------



## dleising

If anyone hasn't noticed already, WOIO is finally using HD graphics overlay unstead of SD'ing everything. They were using tonight during Letterman.


----------



## gregshoh

Just got off the phone with Time Warner CSR......Was informed by her the realignment has not started anywhere yet.....She wasn't sure why........looks like more false promises from TWC........now their talking about this taking all the way into late April........If I have to wait till the end of April for these new HD channels that will be the last straw for me.......Good Bye TWC.........


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13315294
> 
> 
> Thanks Hook for the Tivo/TW DVR information. I will have to digest it for a night or two and certainly do some research of my own. For the time being i will test out the SA 8300 and see if it meets my needs, while looking for the cons you spoke about.



As an abridged side comment, let me say....


I have an SD SA8300, replaced a goofy SA8300HD with a TivoHD several months ago, and by far prefer the Tivo's interface and reliablity to either of the SA boxes. The 8300HD was horrible, the SD 8300 is borderline "acceptable". The Tivo blows the pants off both of them.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nutman* /forum/post/13313313
> 
> 
> Hello all I just purchase a RCA indoor HDTV antenna and I must say it works really well I receive channel 5 & 8 in perfect HD, but I cannot get channel 3 at all on HD. Is there something going on with their HD signal. Thanks for any info. I live 25 to 30 miles west of Cleveland.



Channel 3 broadcasts on VHF 2 which will be extremely difficult to pull in with an indoor antenna at your location. If you bought a UHF only antenna it will be next to impossible to pull in VHF 2. Don't forget that there is no such thing as a "HDTV antenna" since digital television is broadcast on the good ol' fashioned VHF and UHF. As hookbill said, check out antennaweb.org or http://www.tvfool.com/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregshoh* /forum/post/13316234
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with Time Warner CSR......Was informed by her the realignment has not started anywhere yet.....She wasn't sure why........looks like more false promises from TWC........now their talking about this taking all the way into late April........If I have to wait till the end of April for these new HD channels that will be the last straw for me.......Good Bye TWC.........



Well, that's just not true. *And never believe anything that at CSR at TW tells you.* They basically blow smoke because they don't know anything.


Your new around here so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.










Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't going on behind the scenes. I've got good contacts at TW and the realignment has started. That doesn't mean they haven't ran into issues.


It will start with the old original TWC areas first and move on from there. Now as to whether or not you want to change TW for another company that's up to you. I'd suggest D*.


Also if it's because you're waiting on these few new channels they are offering and that's got you upset I can tell you right now that you will not see a great deal of HD programming on The History Channel. I mean think about it, it's the HISTORY channel. How much HD can you expect from a channel that deals with items from the past, before there was HD. Would you like ESPN Classic in HD? Nothing like watching an old baseball game that has two cameras in black and white in HD. The CW? That one I want but they still haven't started any new shows for Supernatural. And Food and H&G I just could care less.


Oh and my contact at TW told me your area is the last one they will do. Should happen on April 30th.


Naw, Just kidding.


----------



## hookbill

Before I lost my common sense on 3/4/08 I had a good idea that the realignment would not happen at one time, probably take much longer then they said it would and with all the different areas that Adelphia never unified in the first place would make it like "mission impossible."


No this post will not self destruct.










Anyway if any of you are unhappy about this transition like gregshoh is then by all means fire TW. I would if I didn't have a line of site problem. I'd keep their cable internet however.


Direct TV has a good DVR, more HD, and TW simply can't compete with them.


U-Verse would be OK if you don't mind getting just one HD signal at a time. I do.


But TW will go as slow as they want in adding HD channels until they lose customers. So since I'm stuck with them and I can't do anything about it please fire TW. Do it for me. I want more HD too.


And no you can't come over and cut down the trees. Well, you can try but don't expect me to pay your medical bills when my wife finds out about it (and I will tell, because I'm not taking the blame) and takes a chain saw to your limbs.


This gives me a great idea for a new addition to my signature.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13317022
> 
> 
> This gives me a great idea for a new addition to my signature.



Well, what's you new signature addition? Do we have to wait until next month for you to roll it out?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/13317068
> 
> 
> Well, what's you new signature addition? Do we have to wait until next month for you to roll it out?



I didn't say when I would change it.










Actually I tired and it won't let me change. Perhaps I'm not allowed to say TW or something on the signature.


I was going to add: Get me more HD. Fire TW today!


----------



## stuart628

just in case you were on the edge of your seats nothing yet....remember I am in green so I should be first....and with 12-17 inches of snow coming, I dont think its going to be this weekend, maybe next week?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13317362
> 
> 
> just in case you were on the edge of your seats nothing yet....remember I am in green so I should be first....and with 12-17 inches of snow coming, I dont think its going to be this weekend, maybe next week?



Stuart628, first I'm not the brightest bulb in the socket but you could be a little more clear. On your previous post I didn't know what the heck you were talking about. I thought you were talking about the light being out on the tower. Now on the post you just quoted I realized you were talking about the lineup change.


I figured it out because I looked at the thread I had reposted and saw that there is a City of Green or twp or something. Anyway I had no idea what you were saying when you said you were in "green". And not using caps on a city makes it a bit more confusing.


Help and old man out. Quote something or make it just a bit more clear.


----------



## HD MM

**Programming Note:*

*Program:* History of the Cleveland Browns: Profile of the first 50 years of the Browns franchise with Paul Brown, Jim Brown, Otto Graham and Marion Motley.
*Channel:* NFL Network HD
*Date:* Today (3/7/08)
*Time:* 4:30pm-5:30pm


I just set my DVR to record via DirecTV's new online DVR scheduler. Just in case I am stuck in snow and don't make it home from work on time tonight, I will rest easy knowing that this will be waiting for me when I get home.


Go Browns!


----------



## HD MM

uh oh....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/07...c-on-twc-dvrs/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13317855
> 
> 
> uh oh....
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/07...c-on-twc-dvrs/




Already discussed in a previous thread. As I said earlier back up is always a good idea on anything electronic but I doubt it's going to "delete" recorded shows. TW is doing the right thing in advsing people to back up just in case. It will cause all kinds of problems for recording shows.


Now if you own a TiVo the best way to avoid this is to take your season passes and make them into Wishlist. Wishlist are not channel specific. Also if your a TiVo owner and your concerned about loss of programs you can back them over to your computer unless they are protected. I have one show that is protected, and thats a hd calibration show that is shown on HDnet every two weeks. Anyway right now I only have 28 recordings and out of those the only ones I really care about are Jericho and Lost. I've got quite a few Big Brother and Survivor but those are the wife's shows and geeze, I'd be really sorry if I lost those.










Now my Judge Judy recordings. I may have to consider transfering those along with my Jericho and Lost. Oh I see Dirt is on there too. I may transfer that one too.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13317590
> 
> 
> Stuart628, first I'm not the brightest bulb in the socket but you could be a little more clear. On your previous post I didn't know what the heck you were talking about. I thought you were talking about the light being out on the tower. Now on the post you just quoted I realized you were talking about the lineup change.
> 
> 
> I figured it out because I looked at the thread I had reposted and saw that there is a City of Green or twp or something. Anyway I had no idea what you were saying when you said you were in "green". And not using caps on a city makes it a bit more confusing.
> 
> 
> Help and old man out. Quote something or make it just a bit more clear.



Sorry Hook!! I was talking about the digital channel Realignment. I was running out the door to try and get to work, so I was in a bit of a rush. I have seen no movement on the channel realignment, and dont think they will do this over the weekend/in a storm. I am willing to bet the first we see any movement now is next monday night.


----------



## nickdawg

Time Warner Cable-Northeast Ohio-Akron/Legacy System

Changes as of 3/7/08:


Added:

*399 TWCNEO-Channel lineup change information

*17 ACCESS (24/7 Paid Programming)


Deleted:

*150 Disney Channel West Coast feed

*358-365 Showtime West Coast Feeds

*372 TMC West

*373 TMC2 West

*460 PUMA(Spanish language)

*463 Sopresa(Spanish language)

*71 Inspirational (MIA)

*99(STB only) Was ACCESS network-Paid Program channel moved to 17

*79(non-STB only) Another location of ACCESS network

*47 GAC Analog channel showing color bars


Moved:

Digital==>Analog:

*MTV2: Currently on Digital 126 and Analog 34

*Jewlery TV: Still on Digital 158; also on Analog 75(w/o STB only)

75 w/STB is TV Guide channel


Change in position only:

*Oxygen: Moved from Analog 78 to Analog 71(formerly Inspirational)

*WE: Moved from Analog 77 to Analog 70(formerly CSPAN2)


"Dead" Channels:

1 Time Warner ONE: Green screen

180 FOX Ohio: color bars

1500 Sports Time Ohio On Demand *FREE* Barker channel with message

to tune to channel 1111


----------



## rick490

I would have assumed that one of the first things we would notice when the change is getting close, is the addition of WBNX HD. Probably on QAM channel 55-1. It should be in the clear since it's local, and it should probably be on everyone's line-up. I haven't seen anything yet. Anyone else?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13318055
> 
> 
> Now if you own a TiVo the best way to avoid this is to take your season passes and make them into Wishlist. Wishlist are not channel specific.



Hey hookbill,


On the TiVo, I don't think you have to worry about channel changes at all. It "automagically" takes care of it for you. For example, I had a bunch of season passes setup when I subscribed to TW digital cable. When I cancelled Digital cable and setup OTA, the season passes continued to work without any action on my part. To this day they still reference the old channel number in the decription, but they record on the new OTA channels. I think TiVo references something in the program description to record rather than the channel number.


----------



## dj9

Will they be changing the physical channels of the current digital channels?


I only use clear QAM services via a PC (because my TV sucks at 480i/1080i input and because I spend most of my time watching broadcast content).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/13320150
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill,
> 
> 
> On the TiVo, I don't think you have to worry about channel changes at all. It "automagically" takes care of it for you. For example, I had a bunch of season passes setup when I subscribed to TW digital cable. When I cancelled Digital cable and setup OTA, the season passes continued to work without any action on my part. To this day they still reference the old channel number in the decription, but they record on the new OTA channels. I think TiVo references something in the program description to record rather than the channel number.



I was thinking the same thing. I think the SPs are tied to the "call letters" rather than the channel number. This only becomes problematic if you move to a market with different locals. I turned to wish lists for local programs when I was moving from school and back to get around this "limitation".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/13320150
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill,
> 
> 
> On the TiVo, I don't think you have to worry about channel changes at all. It "automagically" takes care of it for you. For example, I had a bunch of season passes setup when I subscribed to TW digital cable. When I cancelled Digital cable and setup OTA, the season passes continued to work without any action on my part. To this day they still reference the old channel number in the decription, but they record on the new OTA channels. I think TiVo references something in the program description to record rather than the channel number.



Really! You never set up new SP's for the OTA's and it still recorded them for you. Wow, isn't TiVo amazing.


As far as I know SP's are channel specific so I don't know how that could be possible. But obviously it must be true. I'll have to research that a bit more. Perhaps because the call letters were the same? If it's based on that then no change would be necessary.


Edit: terryfoster beat me to the punch.


Now isn't TiVo just amazing. Have fun making all those recording changes SA 8300 people!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13319977
> 
> 
> I would have assumed that one of the first things we would notice when the change is getting close, is the addition of WBNX HD. Probably on QAM channel 55-1. It should be in the clear since it's local, and it should probably be on everyone's line-up. I haven't seen anything yet. Anyone else?



I was thinking the same thing re: WBNX-HD. I watch my HD via QAM on TW in Canton. I have an ATSC/QAM stb hooked up to the tv in my kids play room. It does a channel scan very quickly, about 5 minutes I think. So, at least once a day, usually around 12am-2am, I just have that tuner do a rescan. Nothing yet, but I'll be sure to post as soon as I see anything.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13321266
> 
> 
> I was thinking the same thing re: WBNX-HD. I watch my HD via QAM on TW in Canton. I have an ATSC/QAM stb hooked up to the tv in my kids play room. It does a channel scan very quickly, about 5 minutes I think. So, at least once a day, usually around 12am-2am, I just have that tuner do a rescan. Nothing yet, but I'll be sure to post as soon as I see anything.



I have to admit I don't know rick490 quite as well as you but you of all people should know that the aim of any cable company is not to make you a happy customer but to make as much money as they can at your expense.










I would agree that if it shows up at all you guys with the qam will see it first so keep an eye open.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13319977
> 
> 
> I would have assumed that one of the first things we would notice when the change is getting close, is the addition of WBNX HD. Probably on QAM channel 55-1. It should be in the clear since it's local, and it should probably be on everyone's line-up. I haven't seen anything yet. Anyone else?



That assumes they pass or use the PSIP data to remap the channel and program id TWC distributes WBNX-DT. You may have better luck running a channel scan and then performing a visual scan for the channel.


----------



## nickdawg

Laugh all you want, but at least I'm not going to be stuck with a $900 outdated piece of crap in a few years.


Can anyone say Tivo Series 4????


Can anyone say MPEG4??


It's coming. I saw a new Scientific Atlanta STB that is MPEG4 capable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13321410
> 
> 
> Laugh all you want, but at least I'm not going to be stuck with a $900 outdated piece of crap in a few years.
> 
> 
> Can anyone say Tivo Series 4????
> 
> 
> Can anyone say MPEG4??
> 
> 
> It's coming. I saw a new Scientific Atlanta STB that is MPEG4 capable.



nickdawg, why do you keep saying 900.00? The TiVo HD is 250.00 and the S3 I've seen around 400.00. Do you feel so inferior with that piece of garbage your stuck with now that you have to make up stories about TiVo's price that are misleading?


The only outdated piece of crap on the market now is the SA 8300. And just because you've seen a new SA STB that's MPEG4 capable gives me absolutely no confidence that it will be any better then any other piece of crap they have offered up in the past.


And as far as the TiVo Series 4 I'm just hearing about that now. Since we don't use mpeg 4 on our cable system I'm not concerned. Heck they can't even do a cable lineup change over, what makes you think that mpeg 4 is right around the corner.


----------



## terryfoster

I think MPEG4 would probably be the most costly route for cable to go right now. Their equipment in the field supports SDV which would be the most economical move for them to make right now. I'm guessing cable will do as little as possible to keep as many subscribers as they can (not that this strategy is different from any other business out in the market).


The MPEG4 equipment from SA looks like it's being adopted by IPTV along with cable in the UK (from my _very_ brief Google search).


So if cable does consider rolling out MPEG4, they'll first start by phasing in the MPEG4 equipment as equipment is upgraded/replaced. Once they get enough participation on the MPEG4 equipment, then they'll probably start switching over to MPEG4.


By the time cable makes this move, replacing a S3 or TiVo HD won't be such a bad thing as the equipment will likely be ~4-5 years old at that point....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13318109
> 
> 
> Sorry Hook!! I was talking about the digital channel Realignment. I was running out the door to try and get to work, so I was in a bit of a rush. I have seen no movement on the channel realignment, and dont think they will do this over the weekend/in a storm. I am willing to bet the first we see any movement now is next monday night.



Just something I just noticed. You see I never heard of the City of Green. Except in your post, and wouldn't you know it they are talking about it on FOX 8 HD news as I write this.


Unfortunately, it appears the reason they are talking about them is your city is out of salt. But your not the only one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13321912
> 
> 
> I think MPEG4 would probably be the most costly route for cable to go right now. Their equipment in the field supports SDV which would be the most economical move for them to make right now. I'm guessing cable will do as little as possible to keep as many subscribers as they can (not that this strategy is different from any other business out in the market).
> 
> 
> The MPEG4 equipment from SA looks like it's being adopted by IPTV along with cable in the UK (from my _very_ brief Google search).
> 
> 
> So if cable does consider rolling out MPEG4, they'll first start by phasing in the MPEG4 equipment as equipment is upgraded/replaced. Once they get enough participation on the MPEG4 equipment, then they'll probably start switching over to MPEG4.
> 
> 
> By the time cable makes this move, replacing a S3 or TiVo HD won't be such a bad thing as the equipment will likely be ~4-5 years old at that point....



Thanks for that response. I certainly didn't see it happening anytime soon.


And I'll bet you won't see a certain person who started this respond either.


You know there are people out there that still use there Series 1 TiVos. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean your S3 or TiVo HD will become a door stop.


Of course they were saying that when the S3 came out long before the USB dongle was discussed. They complained that on the S3 you couldn't search for HD shows. You can now. They also said the S3 would never have TiVo to Go. Or be capable of eSATA. Or multi room viewing. The fact is that it not only can do all those things now and a heck of alot more.


Unfortunately yes, you do need to pay for these features. And I would never have spent the money I spent on the TiVo if the SA 8300 would only do one thing. Record what I wanted, when I wanted it too and not have it look like a bunch of gobly **** messed up digital signals.


Oh. I guess that's 3 things. Well then lets just say if the SA 8300 worked correctly.


----------



## edjrwinnt

My TiVo Series One that I bought from UBid in early 2001 is still huming along!


----------



## Inundated

The city of Green is the old Green Township, down in southern Summit County. I think it managed to swallow the old village (?) of Greensburg, but not Greentown, which is nearby but in Stark County.


When it started growing like weeds...they had to make it a city.


OT: The TWC outpost there is the former Marks Cablevision.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13323679
> 
> 
> OT: The TWC outpost there is the former Marks Cablevision.




Correct me if I'm wrong but when TW got involved in that area they actually went through the trouble of aligning the channels with other companies they acquired. Which is why they want to start this at their base facility.


As we all know Adelphia did absolutely nothing to properly align channels. Well, they may have assigned some HD tiers to the same numbers but that was it.


Acquired Comcast to the best of my knowledge had their channel line up the same.


So TW is faced still with a very tough task. I'm sure they will pull it off but April makes more sense to me, specially for Adelphia folks then March.


One other comment: Old Comcast customers seem very unhappy with TW. While I never think any cable company is really a "good" company I think TW has done a pretty decent job all and all since it acquired Adelphia, whom I thought had the worst customer service I have ever seen.


If I was a Comcast customer and got acquired by TW I know I would have been really p.o.'d. After all, they are getting TiVo software for their DVR boxes. Now they have to put up with this Navigator crap. Sad.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13324279
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but when TW got involved in that area they actually went through the trouble of aligning the channels with other companies they acquired. Which is why they want to start this at their base facility.



CableOne was in there somewhere, but overall, I think you're right...they (mostly) aligned the former Marks system with either Akron or Canton. There are some differences, but not many. I'll have to ask a relative of mine who works for TWC, who came in via CableOne...


I think TWC wants, eventually, to have the Lakeside (Cleveland-ex-Adelphia) facility to be the "hub" system, but since Akron/Canton is the "legacy" system as they call it, it's easier to make the changes there first, then migrate them to the merged systems...I'm assuming.


----------



## gregshoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13316968
> 
> 
> Well, that's just not true. *And never believe anything that at CSR at TW tells you.* They basically blow smoke because they don't know anything.
> 
> 
> Your new around here so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't going on behind the scenes. I've got good contacts at TW and the realignment has started. That doesn't mean they haven't ran into issues.
> 
> 
> It will start with the old original TWC areas first and move on from there. Now as to whether or not you want to change TW for another company that's up to you. I'd suggest D*.
> 
> 
> Also if it's because you're waiting on these few new channels they are offering and that's got you upset I can tell you right now that you will not see a great deal of HD programming on The History Channel. I mean think about it, it's the HISTORY channel. How much HD can you expect from a channel that deals with items from the past, before there was HD. Would you like ESPN Classic in HD? Nothing like watching an old baseball game that has two cameras in black and white in HD. The CW? That one I want but they still haven't started any new shows for Supernatural. And Food and H&G I just could care less.
> 
> 
> Oh and my contact at TW told me your area is the last one they will do. Should happen on April 30th.
> 
> 
> Naw, Just kidding.



Just because that was my first post doesn't mean I am new around here.......been reading these forums for over 2 years.........I also know the games TWC plays...........these good contacts might be just repeating to you

the lies they have heard from other TWC people...........as far as behind the scenes........what do they do behind the scenes before we see something?.......I don't want you to think I am upset with you......







......I just don't believe it.........If I had proof that this has started I would probably be a little more patient.......another thing........correct me if I am wrong......what does 20 inches of snow got to do with anything?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregshoh* /forum/post/13325417
> 
> 
> Just because that was my first post doesn't mean I am new around here.......been reading these forums for over 2 years.........I also know the games TWC plays...........these good contacts might be just repeating to you
> 
> the lies they have heard from other TWC people...........as far as behind the scenes........what do they do behind the scenes before we see something?.......I don't want you to think I am upset with you......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ......I just don't believe it.........If I had proof that this has started I would probably be a little more patient.......another thing........correct me if I am wrong......what does 20 inches of snow got to do with anything?



First, your tone is polite so there is no reason for me to be upset. But the one contact that I have in headend doesn't lie to me. Now you can choose not to believe me that is up to you. This person doesn't tell me things that they either can't tell or does not know the answer to.


I guess the wording of my post led you to believe that I was told things were going on behind the scene. I wasn't. That was an assumption and a logical one at that, there is planning, testing etc. that has to or at least should occurre.


Oh my god it is snowing outside!







I never even thought that would have anything to do with it, or that ice storm on Tuesday when the whole thing was suppose to start!










Of course I realize this is problem and I have mentioned Tuesdays ice storm in at least one post.


One other thing: it's not an insult to be called new. I don't care if you've been lurking for 5 years you only have made a couple of post so you"re new. It's not big deal.


----------



## rick490

I see gregshoh's point about the snow. It's not like TWC has to climb poles outside to make the mostly programming changes. Assuming there isn't power problems to the equipment, the weather shouldn't affect the switch-over that much. TWC published a schedule to the Akron-Beacon Journal and Ohio.com, which was posted here. If they ran into problems which would delay the switch, why not publish it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13326297
> 
> 
> I see gregshoh's point about the snow. It's not like TWC has to climb poles outside to make the mostly programming changes. Assuming there isn't power problems to the equipment, the weather shouldn't affect the switch-over that much. TWC published a schedule to the Akron-Beacon Journal and Ohio.com, which was posted here. If they ran into problems which would delay the switch, why not publish it.



How about the problem of people getting to work at TW? It still takes people to do the things that need to be done and if I could use a sick leave day, I wouldn't go in.


----------



## hershsa

The one reason i could think of why the snow would cause a delay in this would be an increase of calls because of outages. When they do the channel realignment they are bound to get a lot of calls from people that haven't read the paper work or are not tech savy. So if they didnt delay their thinking might be that they wouldnt be able to handle all the calls from the outages due to snow/ice and the calls from the channel moves.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13326331
> 
> 
> How about the problem of people getting to work at TW? It still takes people to do the things that need to be done and if I could use a sick leave day, I wouldn't go in.



When i picked up my box yesterday they were closing the building down early (Severance Circle).


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13326374
> 
> 
> The one reason i could think of why the snow would cause a delay in this would be an increase of calls because of outages. When they do the channel realignment they are bound to get a lot of calls from people that haven't read the paper work or are not tech savy. So if they didnt delay their thinking might be that they wouldnt be able to handle all the calls from the outages due to snow/ice and the calls from the channel moves.



That's EXACTLY what I was thinking...


----------



## stuart628

Cable One was green I believe (I think thats who we had when we moved here anyways)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13326960
> 
> 
> Cable One was green I believe (I think thats who we had when we moved here anyways)



Yeah, that's the system that started as Marks Cablevision. I don't know what, if any, other companies intervened...I think it went Marks > CableOne > TWC directly.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13326383
> 
> 
> When i picked up my box yesterday they were closing the building down early (Severance Circle).



Not to get OT, but I have a real appreciation for those who have to go out and work on outside plant during this kind of weather. They get called out when the weather is at it's absolute worst and have to work up in the air under the worst of conditions just so the rest of us will have power, phone, water and tv service. My hat is off to them.


----------



## gregshoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13325968
> 
> 
> I guess the wording of my post led you to believe that I was told things were going on behind the scene. I wasn't. That was an assumption and a logical one at that, there is planning, testing etc. that has to or at least should occurre.



I understand your point........but my assumption would be that the planning and testing, ect. would be done prior to March 4.........they release info to the press

saying people should start seeing changes on or around March 4 and just go into

blind........


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregshoh* /forum/post/13328991
> 
> 
> I understand your point........but my assumption would be that the planning and testing, ect. would be done prior to March 4.........they release info to the press
> 
> saying people should start seeing changes on or around March 4 and just go into
> 
> blind........



Hey, I'm not going to defend the evil cable company. But the reality is that everyone of them does crap like this. Just like Comcast telling people they would have TiVo software in 2007. Not everyone has it.


And the funny part of this is they make their own headaches by doing crap like this. It increases phone calls, get's people p.o.'d. There's a certain person in this forum who is so upset I'm a bit concerned he may go over to a local office and start shooting the place up.










But I'm ok now, I took my meds.....I mean, I'm sure he won't.










You wern't serious about cable companies planning and testing ahead of time.....were you?


----------



## gregshoh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13329457
> 
> 
> 
> You wern't serious about cable companies planning and testing ahead of time.....were you?










......good point.....must have been half asleep......


----------



## gregshoh

While most of my frustration is with TWC.......I should say TWC NE Ohio........because I see

other states are different.........check out TWC in Texas.........they have a pretty nice line-up of HD channels and their prices are comparable to ours...........


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gregshoh* /forum/post/13329548
> 
> 
> While most of my frustration is with TWC.......I should say TWC NE Ohio........because I see
> 
> other states are different.........check out TWC in Texas.........they have a pretty nice line-up of HD channels and their prices are comparable to ours...........



And the reason they have such a nice line up is because in Austin and a couple other cities they are using full blown SDV. Now we can't have SDV until they align the cable channels. To start. Also they were the first to get SDV.


Again I don't want to defend the cable company but comparing TWC NEO with them is really apples and oranges. TW has only taken over all these companies for one year. Now while you may have been with TW longer, this is a complicated process.


So either you can be patient, get Direct TV, or move to Texas. Your choice.










Edit: Rochester NY also has a great deal of SDV. That's a bit closer.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13329457
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm not going to defend the evil cable company. But the reality is that everyone of them does crap like this. Just like Comcast telling people they would have TiVo software in 2007. Not everyone has it........



Cable tv co's are like cell phone co's: They all SUCK, some just suck more than others!










It's sad when we consumers don't have a choice of "which is better" but rather a choice of "which one sucks less".


----------



## paule123

WVIZ is screwed up again, doing that goofy scrolling thing with the video.


Please send your contributions so they can buy better equipment!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13333523
> 
> 
> WVIZ is screwed up again, doing that goofy scrolling thing with the video.
> 
> 
> Please send your contributions so they can buy better equipment!



I know your joking but I will never send another dime to a PBS station. After one contribution they started sending me mail that looked more like a bill then a request for a contribution. I began to expect a collection agency to start calling.










Plus I just got done spending 2 hours moving all that friggin snow off my driveway and I got a thousand other things to do, my wife is in NJ pissed at me because I told her "go ahead, change your flight for today" yesterday in the morning and I've already lost an hour because of this stupid daylight savings time, I'm tired, cold, dirty, and I'm starting a new job tomorrow. I have to go to the grocery store, vacuum the upstairs, downstairs, clean the cat boxes, clean the 10 bird cages. That should allow me enough time to watch one Judge Judy recording and go to bed.


And that's not even in HD but I tried to get back on topic....


----------



## paule123

WVIZ is STILL screwed up, it's been like this all afternoon, and the irony is they are doing their "PBS Cooks" fundraising show right now. It's totally unwatchable. I guess the engineer there takes Sundays off...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13334241
> 
> 
> I know your joking but I will never send another dime to a PBS station. After one contribution they started sending me mail that looked more like a bill then a request for a contribution. I began to expect a collection agency to start calling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I just got done spending 2 hours moving all that friggin snow off my driveway and I got a thousand other things to do, my wife is in NJ pissed at me because I told her "go ahead, change your flight for today" yesterday in the morning and I've already lost an hour because of this stupid daylight savings time, I'm tired, cold, dirty, and I'm starting a new job tomorrow. I have to go to the grocery store, vacuum the upstairs, downstairs, clean the cat boxes, clean the 10 bird cages. That should allow me enough time to watch one Judge Judy recording and go to bed.



Well, it appears *somebody* needs an attitude adjustment....


----------



## nickdawg

Looks like the Time Warner channel removal, err I mean REALIGNMENT is continuing today. Discovery Health, Fit TV and GAC are now gone. VC 47 (GAC) is completely gone, 68(Discovery Health) is now VH1 Classic and 72(Fit TV) is now Discovery Science. I don't really give a crap baout GAC(glad the stupid country music is gone, waste of bandwidth) or Fit TV(usually showed programs about yoga. That's why they have DVDs, waste of bandwidth) but I was pissed as f*** to see my Discovery Health gone. It doesn't make sense why that channel disappeared. The logical thing to do would be to map VH1 Classic to 68 and re-map Disc Health to 132(where VH1C used to be). I thought Time Warner was supposed to Think Like I Think!










Although now all the channels that were supposed to move to the digital extra tier are there and all the channels that are supposed to move to the basic tier are in their positions as well. Maybe that big move is coming VERY soon?


----------



## jtscherne

For those of you interested in Food Network and HGTV, see the following:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080310/20080310005151.html?.v=1 


For those not in the know, up until now, Food Network and HGTV ran separate HD channels with repetitive programming. Starting March 31st, the HD channels will be simulcasts of the main channels. Since not all older content is in HD, it'll be like National Geographic HD and other similar HD channels.


----------



## Himey67

Thanks Nickdawg, keep us posted please. It'll be interesting to see what version of Navigator we'll receive as the lineup evolves.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13342259
> 
> 
> For those of you interested in Food Network and HGTV, see the following:
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080310/20080310005151.html?.v=1
> 
> 
> For those not in the know, up until now, Food Network and HGTV ran separate HD channels with repetitive programming. Starting March 31st, the HD channels will be simulcasts of the main channels. Since not all older content is in HD, it'll be like National Geographic HD and other similar HD channels.



Now I need to actually get those channels. I believe that is pending the channel realignment.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13342259
> 
> 
> For those of you interested in Food Network and HGTV, see the following:
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080310/20080310005151.html?.v=1
> 
> 
> For those not in the know, up until now, Food Network and HGTV ran separate HD channels with repetitive programming. Starting March 31st, the HD channels will be simulcasts of the main channels. Since not all older content is in HD, it'll be like National Geographic HD and other similar HD channels.



Ugh. I don't know if this is good news or bad news for those who get the separate full time HD channels. Are there many shows on the full time HD channels that aren't on the (soon to be replaced) main channels? What will we be missing out on?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13342259
> 
> 
> For those of you interested in Food Network and HGTV, see the following:
> 
> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080310/20080310005151.html?.v=1
> 
> 
> For those not in the know, up until now, Food Network and HGTV ran separate HD channels with repetitive programming. Starting March 31st, the HD channels will be simulcasts of the main channels. Since not all older content is in HD, it'll be like National Geographic HD and other similar HD channels.



What do y'all think: 4:3 OAR or stretchovision? I've heard that A&E and History use some stretchovision. I really hope Food keeps OAR. Could you imagine cookies, pizzas, pies and other round foods in stretchovision?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13342753
> 
> 
> Ugh. I don't know if this is good news or bad news for those who get the separate full time HD channels. Are there many shows on the full time HD channels that aren't on the (soon to be replaced) main channels? What will we be missing out on?



Sounds like they have the same stuff on a loop, like HDT(Discovery #554) or WNEO-DT's PBS HD feed. Many times the programming on the dedicated HD channel is better than the main feed, but there are times I'd like the main Discovery HD simulcast(like when "Dirty jobs" says it's in HD).


Although I do like the idea of a simulcast. One less channel I have to watch with my cable box's hideous GREY sidebars


----------



## jtscherne

Way too many repeats for me. Right now there's a four hour block that changes every day at 7:00 p.m. and repeats during the day (with infomercials in the middle of the night). Most of the newer regular shows do appear on the HD channel, but I don't know how many specific episodes were actually filmed in HD.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13343871
> 
> 
> Sounds like they have the same stuff on a loop, like HDT(Discovery #554) or WNEO-DT's PBS HD feed. Many times the programming on the dedicated HD channel is better than the main feed, but there are times I'd like the main Discovery HD simulcast(like when "Dirty jobs" says it's in HD).
> 
> 
> Although I do like the idea of a simulcast. One less channel I have to watch with my cable box's hideous GREY sidebars


----------



## hookbill

Doesn't surprise me. TW gave us some real **** HD channels. I want FX, USA, and SCI FI.


Quality, not qunatity.


----------



## dleising

I would like to see Discovery HD (simulcast of the Discovery Channel).


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13343836
> 
> 
> What do y'all think: 4:3 OAR or stretchovision? I've heard that A&E and History use some stretchovision. I really hope Food keeps OAR. Could you imagine cookies, pizzas, pies and other round foods in stretchovision?



I recall in a Good Eats episode a few years ago (looks like 2005), Alton Brown made a comment that the network decided to move to true HD production of the show. Related info at http://www.biscardicreative.com/arti...hive&newsid=46 - that article makes me think they're putting some effort into getting it right.


With any luck, this may indicate that Food Network plans to do HD without screwing around.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13343871
> 
> 
> One less channel I have to watch with my cable box's hideous GREY sidebars



Hmm - I remember being seriously annoyed by this when I had a Navigator 8300HDC, but I'm pretty sure there was a way (although very hidden) to change to black sidebars. Which box are you running?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13348270
> 
> 
> Hmm - I remember being seriously annoyed by this when I had a Navigator 8300HDC, but I'm pretty sure there was a way (although very hidden) to change to black sidebars.




He could purchase an S3 ot TiVo HD.










Just kidding nickdawg. I know, 900.00, door stop, I get it.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13348270
> 
> 
> Hmm - I remember being seriously annoyed by this when I had a Navigator 8300HDC, but I'm pretty sure there was a way (although very hidden) to change to black sidebars. Which box are you running?



I believe you go into the guide and click settings on the remote. In one of the sections there you change the color of the sidebars i believe.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13348870
> 
> 
> I believe you go into the guide and click settings on the remote. In one of the sections there you change the color of the sidebars i believe.



Wouldn't that be done in set up? You would select 480i along with 1080i and 720p. At least I would, you could probably just set up just one of the HD channels.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13348883
> 
> 
> Wouldn't that be done in set up? You would select 480i along with 1080i and 720p. At least I would, you could probably just set up just one of the HD channels.



I dont have it in front of me but i believe clicking the settings button takes you to the "setup". I am picturing a list of things on the left and when you are over one you get to change its attribute to the right (ie aspect ratio 480i, 720p, or audio output etc). Not 100% here so i will check when i get home tonight.


----------



## Too_Many_options

 http://www.scientificatlanta.com/pro...orer8300HD.htm 

there are guides for all SA products...


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/13349781
> 
> http://www.scientificatlanta.com/pro...orer8300HD.htm
> 
> there are guides for all SA products...



The tricky part is not all SA products run the same firmware.


----------



## stuart628

well I got my New Channel lineup and rate card in the mail today (didnt look at it as I was just passing through home to drop off lunch for my wife in between stores) but I wonder if it will be this week...heres to hoping its soon!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13351843
> 
> 
> well I got my New Channel lineup and rate card in the mail today (didnt look at it as I was just passing through home to drop off lunch for my wife in between stores) but I wonder if it will be this week...heres to hoping its soon!



I got mine yesterday. It's for Cleveland Suburb Area 1 but I'm in Cleveland Suburb Area 3. I think it's the same line up.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13335626
> 
> 
> WVIZ is STILL screwed up, it's been like this all afternoon, and the irony is they are doing their "PBS Cooks" fundraising show right now. It's totally unwatchable. I guess the engineer there takes Sundays off...



How are you getting WVIZ (Cable, satellite, or OTA)? About a week ago WVIZ via Dish Network was doing exactly what you described, however the analog OTA signal was fine.


----------



## dand243

hey just here to let everyone know that my channels were changed to the new lineup this morning.


----------



## stuart628

came to update this thread with other info as well, Dish network has uplinked Cleveland locals to the 61.5 dish! should be turned on in a couple weeks!!!!


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/13363084
> 
> 
> hey just here to let everyone know that my channels were changed to the new lineup this morning.



Where do you live?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/13363084
> 
> 
> hey just here to let everyone know that my channels were changed to the new lineup this morning.



1. Where do you live?


2. Was your program guide/DVR menu changed at all?


----------



## dand243

i live in green


as far as the guide there are no new features just the channels are different.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dand243* /forum/post/13364033
> 
> 
> i live in green
> 
> 
> as far as the guide there are no new features just the channels are different.




They use a provider that only delivers so much info for the guide. That's why you have to go through all the channel changes on the DVR and there is no "record new only". Other areas of TW however are not like that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13364150
> 
> 
> They use a provider that only delivers so much info for the guide. That's why you have to go through all the channel changes on the DVR and there is no "record new only". Other areas of TW however are not like that.



WRONG! PASSPORT hs options to record "First Run Only" or "First Run & Repeats". Also you can choose one channel only(like WOIOHD only or all channels the show is on). Also, you can choose only a certain time or all times. There's also setting to choose how many show you want to keep and to save until manually erased.


Areas that have/will have Navigator don't have these options.


----------



## nickdawg

Is anyone watching WEWS-DT? The picture during Wheel and Jeopardy looks kind of jerky/choppy. As the camera moves, it doesn't look smooth and natural. Maybe something with frame rates and output formats?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13364216
> 
> 
> WRONG! PASSPORT hs options to record "First Run Only" or "First Run & Repeats". Also you can choose one channel only(like WOIOHD only or all channels the show is on). Also, you can choose only a certain time or all times. There's also setting to choose how many show you want to keep and to save until manually erased.
> 
> 
> Areas that have/will have Navigator don't have these options.



Well, I've asked you in the past if that option was available for you with passport and you never responded. I do know that it is available with SARA but only if the guide that is being used delivers that information.


So I wouldn't count out that you may lose that feature with Navigator and I know that's a biggie, but you are following this much closer then I am so perhaps Navigator doesn't support that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13364332
> 
> 
> Is anyone watching WEWS-DT? The picture during Wheel and Jeopardy looks kind of jerky/choppy. As the camera moves, it doesn't look smooth and natural. Maybe something with frame rates and output formats?



I was watching earlier and had no problems. It's the SA 8300. It's a horrible piece of equipment. I don't care what software is in it.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13364332
> 
> 
> Is anyone watching WEWS-DT? The picture during Wheel and Jeopardy looks kind of jerky/choppy. As the camera moves, it doesn't look smooth and natural. Maybe something with frame rates and output formats?



Yes, I saw the same thing and I have a cablecard.


----------



## nickdawg

Watch out for "dead channels". As they move channels around, there are some vacant virtual channels left that screw up the tuner. As I went to watch "Rob & Big" on MTV2, 126 is just a blank screen and my box screwed up(don't even think about it hookbill







) requiring a reboot. Apparently the MTV2 is only on #34 now.


I really hope this change happens in Akron soon. I'm sick of this eff'd up lineup and the missing channels like Discovery Health. If they already did Green, that's a good sign it's going to be soon!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13366879
> 
> 
> Watch out for "dead channels". As they move channels around, there are some vacant virtual channels left that screw up the tuner. As I went to watch "Rob & Big" on MTV2, 126 is just a blank screen and my box screwed up(don't even think about it hookbill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) requiring a reboot. Apparently the MTV2 is only on #34 now.



Naw, I can't get you on that one. It would appear the lineup change is moving OK now that the real bad weather has passed. Maybe that was the problem?


----------



## rick490

I've heard from a friend in Green that his dvr recordings were still there after the changeover.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13369381
> 
> 
> I've heard from a friend in Green that his dvr recordings were still there after the changeover.



Great news to hear. I didn't think there would be because I couldn't see how that would cause recordings to be deleted but never the less thanks for passing that information on.


----------



## dleising

I have the new channel lineup just south of Kent. Nice to see 4 new HD channels. One other thing, STO says "Off Air" in the EPG but "All Bets Are Off" WAS in HD tonight. I don't know if All Bets Are Off is in HD every night or not, but everything is there. It looks like I still get all of the same channels that I did before, even though they are placed in different tiers.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13373603
> 
> 
> Great news to hear. I didn't think there would be because I couldn't see how that would cause recordings to be deleted but never the less thanks for passing that information on.



If you've been using an external SATA drive with a DVR and it's about to be upgraded with new navigator firmware, make sure the drive remains connected during the transition so the recordings on the external drive will still be visible to the machine after the upgrade.


Just sayin'


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13373764
> 
> 
> I have the new channel lineup just south of Kent. Nice to see 4 new HD channels. One other thing, STO says "Off Air" in the EPG but "All Bets Are Off" WAS in HD tonight. I don't know if All Bets Are Off is in HD every night or not, but everything is there. It looks like I still get all of the same channels that I did before, even though they are placed in different tiers.



Did it happen today? Yesterday it was Green, now Kent. Hope i'm next


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13374311
> 
> 
> Did it happen today? Yesterday it was Green, now Kent. Hope i'm next



Must have happened some time today, as it was not like this last night. Still color bars on analog 47 though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13373836
> 
> 
> If you've been using an external SATA drive with a DVR and it's about to be upgraded with new navigator firmware, make sure the drive remains connected during the transition so the recordings on the external drive will still be visible to the machine after the upgrade.
> 
> 
> Just sayin'



To disconnect a eSata drive would in all esscence "divorce" it from the internal hard drive in any situation, that is if you powered on with it disconnected so absolutely you would not want to have your eSATA disconnected.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13374568
> 
> 
> Still color bars on analog 47 though.



Analog 47 is coming in again? My box skips from 46 to 48. It only works on my non-STB TVs.


Also, is Discovery Health back? I know it's supposed to be somewhere in the 150s on the new lineup.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13375213
> 
> 
> Analog 47 is coming in again? My box skips from 46 to 48. It only works on my non-STB TVs.
> 
> 
> Also, is Discovery Health back? I know it's supposed to be somewhere in the 150s on the new lineup.



DISC Health is on the new digital lineup. The digital boxes currently skip channel 47 but analog TV's show color bars. I beleive 47 should be TVOne.


----------



## hookbill

Still no changes here in the old eastern Cleveland Adelphia Suburb area.


Quite honestly they arn't offering me anything I just gotta have so I'm in no hurry.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13376616
> 
> 
> Still no changes here in the old eastern Cleveland Adelphia Suburb area.
> 
> 
> Quite honestly they arn't offering me anything I just gotta have so I'm in no hurry.



They are probably taking care of the legacy systems before they hit the Adelphia/Comcast regions anyway.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13376616
> 
> 
> Quite honestly they arn't offering me anything I just gotta have so I'm in no hurry.



I want to watch Smackdown in HD tonight!! That's not going to happen































Supernatural is also starting new episodes soon. It better be up by then!

It's looking like Akron will be next week.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13380741
> 
> 
> 
> Supernatural is also starting new episodes soon. It better be up by then!
> 
> It's looking like Akron will be next week.



Yeah buddy, that's what I want too.


As far as wrestling goes, I stopped watching two years after WCW went down. Now however I have been watching Total Nonstop Action. I like the people on that one.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I stopped watching fake wrestling when I was 12 yrs old...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13381197
> 
> 
> I stopped watching fake wrestling when I was 12 yrs old...



So did I. Then I started again when I was around 38 and stopped about 5 years ago. With not that much good stuff on TV I started watching again. I don't know how long I'll continue to do it but it's entertaining.


I would rather watch wrestling then something like golf or fishing. And whether you want to admit it or not, alot of those guys are good athletes. Well, yeah the steroids but everyone else was useing them to.


----------



## nickdawg

Time Warner Cable-Northeast Ohio-Akron/Legacy System

Changes as of 3/14/08:


Added:

*511 Sports On Demand *FREE*


Deleted:

*68 Discovery Health---MIA/will reappear at position 152 after the lineup change

*72 Fit TV---MIA/will reappear at position 153 after the lineup change

*47 GAC---MIA/will reappear at position 255 after the lineup change

*113 Discovery Science---deleted from lineup/moved to Analog 72

*1 Time Warner ONE---Showing channel change info

*591 Showtime West HD---Showtime West Coast feeds discontinued

*581 HBO West HD---MIA/should reappear on 495 after lineup change

*79 Access TV---Paid Program Channel


Moved:

Analog==>Digital:

*Discovery Health---Currently MIA(152)

*Fit TV---Currently MIA(153)

*GAC---Currently MIA(255)


Digital==>Analog:

*Discovery Science---moved to analog 72 Also still on digital at 705

*VH1 Classic---moved from Digital 132 to Analog 68

*TV One---Will move to Analog 47(Change pending)


"Dead" Channels:

*126 MTV2---Moved to Analog 34; no longer on 126, just blank screen

*180 FOX Ohio: color bars

*1500 Sports Time Ohio On Demand *FREE* Barker channel with message

to tune to channel 1111


New Lineup CONFIRMED:

*Green

*Kent


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13362865
> 
> 
> How are you getting WVIZ (Cable, satellite, or OTA)? About a week ago WVIZ via Dish Network was doing exactly what you described, however the analog OTA signal was fine.



The WVIZ screwups were via D*.


When WVIZ has this goofy scrolling screen thing going on, a screen of color bars with the words to the effect of "WVIZ technical difficulties please stand by" flashes every couple seconds -- that made me think it was a WVIZ source problem instead of a D* problem.


I didn't even think to check WVIZ analog OTA - I'm so used to thinking about their impossible to receive DT channel that I forgot there is still an analog 25 going full power.


----------



## paule123

Dish Network adding Cleveland HD locals (as well as many other HD channels) in April:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1006263


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13392402
> 
> 
> The WVIZ screwups were via D*.
> 
> 
> When WVIZ has this goofy scrolling screen thing going on, a screen of color bars with the words to the effect of "WVIZ technical difficulties please stand by" flashes every couple seconds -- that made me think it was a WVIZ source problem instead of a D* problem.
> 
> 
> I didn't even think to check WVIZ analog OTA - I'm so used to thinking about their impossible to receive DT channel that I forgot there is still an analog 25 going full power.



On E* I got sound and a rolling picture that switched between the color bars you mentioned and the actual program.


----------



## stuart628

paule I already posted that back a page, also that might be delayed a bit, and when I say a bit, I mean well we dont know how long right now







the amc-14 satellite which dish was leasing (being launched this last friday) had a bit of trouble and is a little ways off of its proper orbit, they are going to move it to its proper orbit (no matter what you read they are) and this could take a month or more to do, but the as of now the cleveland locals are uplinked onto the 61.5 bird right now, heres to hoping they turn them on!


----------



## hookbill

New HD TiVo is up and running! Got the lifetime membership with this one. Did the sign in by phone to make sure I got the lifetime and everything was linked when I went to the web site.


TW coming out with cable cards on 4/5. The CSR said she doesn't know about the M cards so she's requesting what I have in my S3, two S cards.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13403782
> 
> 
> New HD TiVo is up and running! Got the lifetime membership with this one. Did the sign in by phone to make sure I got the lifetime and everything was linked when I went to the web site.
> 
> 
> TW coming out with cable cards on 4/5. The CSR said she doesn't know about the M cards so she's requesting what I have in my S3, two S cards.



What's an S card?... what's an M card?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13403782
> 
> 
> The CSR said she doesn't know about the M cards so she's requesting what I have in my S3, two S cards.



Does the Tivo have two card slots(one for each tuner)? You probably would need one S card for each slot. The M-card is the newer card used in the SA HDC DVRs with dual tuners.


The Lifetime Commitment? Will they replace that box when it is outdated? Still liking my 8300HD


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13403973
> 
> 
> What's an S card?... what's an M card?



S card = Single Stream (decodes one stream from a single tuner)


M card = Multi Stream (a single card can decode streams from multiple tuners)


Note: BOTH types of cards are two-way capable. What makes a setup one-way or two-way is the host, not the card. The host device requires a reverse-path transmitter for two-way operation.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13404064
> 
> 
> Does the Tivo have two card slots(one for each tuner)? You probably would need one S card for each slot. The M-card is the newer card used in the SA HDC DVRs with dual tuners.



The TiVo HD only needs one M card even with two slots for dual tuning.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13404064
> 
> 
> The Lifetime Commitment? Will they replace that box when it is outdated? Still liking my 8300HD



Lifetime commitment: getting married.


Lifetime Service: Pay once, never pay again. However you are correct that goes for the HD TiVo only. However, TiVo has allowed people to transfer their lifetime service from time to time with a puchase of a new model. They did it with the S3 when it first came out. And it was for a limited time.


Did that make it easy for you to understand?


God, your a troublemaker!










And talk about outdated? You're SA8300 is so far out dated I'd rather use a VCR.


----------



## hookbill

Guys I need a HDMI to DVI cable. Can anyone recommend someone to me?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13404424
> 
> 
> Guys I need a HDMI to DVI cable. Can anyone recommend someone to me?



Are you serious?... Monoprice.com


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13404489
> 
> 
> Are you serious?... Monoprice.com



Yeah, I just haven't bought anything and I forgot. Thanks.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13404804
> 
> 
> Yeah, I just haven't bought anything and I forgot. Thanks.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13403782
> 
> 
> New HD TiVo is up and running!



Congrats... When you get enough time with the HD, I'd like to know if you find any notable differences between it and the S3. (Ignoring the THX and drive size differences.)


I've read that the HD UI acts a little sluggish compared to the S3, but I've never had a problem with it.


----------



## mnowlin

The guy next door had AT&T Uverse installed today. Took them over eight hours and three truck rolls - the last truck finally left just before 10 PM. He only has one computer and three TVs (two on the first floor), and I know it's not difficult to pull wires in the place.


I need to ask him in the next few days what they did (and play with the service), but I just don't understand why it took so long and so many people to install the thing...


----------



## neo1022




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13404347
> 
> 
> And talk about outdated? You're SA8300 is so far out dated I'd rather use a VCR.



I know you're probably joking, but I've got to call BS on that one.


----------



## nickdawg

MOTHERF*****!!!!! Around 3:50-3:55AM the box in my bedroom shut off and rebooted. Then there was a series of letters/numbers on the front panel. At first I was excited, the new channels are coming!! Nope. Instead, I get the Blue Screen of Death. The @$$ ugly "Mystro" screen popped up.

















By 4:09 it was up and running. Same hideous UI as the OCAP version, except slightly different. Since it is an older, non-OCAP box this must be the MDN-Mystro Digital Navigator version. It looks like they are only doing certain boxes at a time. My 8300HD is still on Passport Echo(for now).


----------



## nickdawg

Around 4:56 the new channels appeared. My lineup has been changed and the new HD channels added!! So far I'm not liking the new HD nationals. Paid Programming is on and they're stretchovision







WBNX is OAR and 5.1


Interestingly, the new channels are not appearing on the Navigatored box yet.
























BTW: to give a general idea of where I am, I'm in North Akron.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, the numbers on my DVR changed to reflect the channel changes. Example: An episode of "Rob & Big" recorded on 3/1 on MTV2(which was #126) now says MTV2 251(the new channel). Also, one scheduled recording for an HD channel tomorrow changed with the lineup. It changed from 541 to 404


Will Tivo do that?


----------



## nickdawg

Sports Time Ohio is coming through as "Indians in HD" in the IPG and says Off Air for the whole day. WBNX-HD is not officially flagged as HD by the STB. The "HDTV" light isn't lit up.


None of the WBNX program descriptions include "HDTV" or "Dolby Digital". i checked "One Tree Hill" and "Smallville".


After a manual reboot, the Navigatored box took the changes. Kinda weird, but now it outputs RF on channel 4
























------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if I turned this into the nickdawg show.







Doing my duty to keep everyone informed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13406312
> 
> 
> MOTHERF*****!!!!! Around 3:50-3:55AM the box in my bedroom shut off and rebooted.



heh heh heh heh heh. It's going to be a good day!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neo1022* /forum/post/13406159
> 
> 
> I know you're probably joking, but I've got to call BS on that one.



Yeah, nickdawg is always pulling my chain but now his has been pulled. Bye Bye passport....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13405972
> 
> 
> Congrats... When you get enough time with the HD, I'd like to know if you find any notable differences between it and the S3. (Ignoring the THX and drive size differences.)
> 
> 
> I've read that the HD UI acts a little sluggish compared to the S3, but I've never had a problem with it.



Well, I noticed after the update that the software platform is S3. I'm having a bit of a problem when I first turn on the TV I get a greeninsh picture. When I turn it off and turn it on it's fine, but I shouldn't have to do that. I've ordered a HDMI-DVI cable and I'll experiment with the settings. Right now I'm back on native, I was on 720p hybrid but when I used the TiVo STB I believe it was on native.


Other then that I have to admit it looks just like the S3, with the exception of the front panel. And what a great idea to put the cable cards in the FRONT instead of the back!


I also notice no cable card install instructions came with this. Did I miss something?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13406312
> 
> 
> MOTHERF*****!!!!! Around 3:50-3:55AM the box in my bedroom shut off and rebooted. Then there was a series of letters/numbers on the front panel. At first I was excited, the new channels are coming!! Nope. Instead, I get the Blue Screen of Death. The @$$ ugly "Mystro" screen popped up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By 4:09 it was up and running. Same hideous UI as the OCAP version, except slightly different. Since it is an older, non-OCAP box this must be the MDN-Mystro Digital Navigator version. It looks like they are only doing certain boxes at a time. My 8300HD is still on Passport Echo(for now).



Do you think everyone will get navigator? I do not know much about this kinda stuff. Is the UI different? How do I check to see if I have navigator? What is the difference between Navigator and Passport?


----------



## gforaker

I live in Doylestown and just noticed the new channel lineup is installed today. I checked out the scheduled recordings in series manager and they already have the new channel location adjusted. That had been a concern for me since I an heading out of town on Thursday.


----------



## gforaker

Oh, but I forgot to add, the previous lineup had channel 611 as an unmarked info channel for your diagnostic of the converter or dvr box. It is now gone or moved. Anyone know where?


----------



## stuart628

Nickdawg, you gotta get a tivo or Satellite, you are driving yourself loony with all of this, I got my satellite back up and running (cost me ANOTHER pretty penny, but I am still ahead of where I would be with cables FULL price) I got it right after green got hit with the channel lineup as my box started driving me crazy again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/13408996
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, you gotta get a tivo or Satellite, you are driving yourself loony with all of this, I got my satellite back up and running (cost me ANOTHER pretty penny, but I am still ahead of where I would be with cables FULL price) I got it right after green got hit with the channel lineup as my box started driving me crazy again.



Naw, let him go. I'm enjoying this.










nickdawg will never get a TiVo. Satellite is possible but TiVo? No way.


He doesn't like spending any extra money, even though with my new TiVo HD my bill went from 137.00 to 128.00.










That's the way TiVo pays for itself, nickdawg.


----------



## smoti17

I'm new to this forum, and relatively new to the area & cable, so my apologies if this has been covered already. Currently have a SA Explorer 3250HD on TWC Digital tier, in Suburban Cleveland 2, so no line-up change yet.


I have just got a TiVo HD, and TWC claim they are sending someone to install an M cablecard this Friday (21st). Took 4 phone call attempts to order - I'll let people know how I get on. Annoying that the receivable clear QAM channels don't appear in the TiVo guide meantime.


There's a couple of questions that have been bugging me:

- with the line-up change, it looks like the 60-odd expanded basic channels previously only available in glorious 1980s analog are additionally being transmitted in digital. Is this correct, and if so where is the extra capacity coming from ?

- why doesn't the local WVIZ/PBS HD feed transmit the News Hour ?


Keith

[Trying not to feel too nostalgic for my previous DVB-S setup..]


----------



## dj9

Legacy Time Warner networks have been simulcasting analog channels in digital for about 2 years


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13407668
> 
> 
> Oh, but I forgot to add, the previous lineup had channel 611 as an unmarked info channel for your diagnostic of the converter or dvr box. It is now gone or moved. Anyone know where?



Once the box gets Navigator this channel goes away. To get the diagnostics on Navigator, you have to hold SELECT until the Message light on the front of the box comes on, the press the right arrow >.


On boxes with Passport still, the Diagnostic channel moved to 1611.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm now taking the Navigator box for a test drive and it really sucks so far. The UI moves so slow. A keyboard search was added but it is useless b/c once you type in a show name, you have to wait for the data to load and the show in the quarter screen video window blacks out. No more program searching while I'm watching a show







.


I can't wait to see how the DVR is going to work. I noticed that shows are incorrectly labeled as "New". EVERY "Rob & Big" episode "Vegas" on MTV-250 is labeled as "New" between tonight and 3/23. On the Passport box, only the 10:30 first run eppy is labeled New. It will be interesting to watch this one play out, especially with series recordings for new episodes.


The Navigator guide has LESS information about each show. Most movies only have one actor listed and show descriptions are shorter. Also, helpful information like "Dolby Digital" "Letterbox" and "HDTV" are no longer present. Maybe b/c it is an SD box, but that info was there on Passport, even though it wasn't capable of tuning those channels.


Channel changing is a pain in the arse. There is now a longer delay btw punching in numbers and the channel changing. It's the same in the guide. Also, it acts up punching in numbers. The channel banner gets "confused" and has blinking question marks????


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> - why doesn't the local WVIZ/PBS HD feed transmit the News Hour ?



Because the HD feeds on both of our PBS stations run PBS HD 24/7 as opposed to a true HD feed of the main channel (i.e. the analog off-air programs).


Why PBS does not run the News Hour on PBS HD is beyond me. All I can think of as a reason is that there are not enough "members" to pony up the cost to run the program.


----------



## blinkcowz182

Just wanted to throw in that I now have the complete channel revision including the new HD channels (HGTV, Food, AE, and History) in their correct positions. Happened some time between 2 and 5am this morning. I live in Akron, west of downtown between Akron and Fairlawn.


----------



## nickdawg

Welcome to AVS blinkcowz182!! What Time Warner equipment do you have? Any change in the appearance of your program guide? Believe me, you'll notice when you get navigator


----------



## dleising

Is there anyway to have the EPG and all other on screen graphics on my SA8300HD show up in wide screen instead of 4:3 SD?


----------



## gforaker




nickdawg said:


> Once the box gets Navigator this channel goes away. To get the diagnostics on Navigator, you have to hold SELECT until the Message light on the front of the box comes on, the press the right arrow >.
> 
> 
> On boxes with Passport still, the Diagnostic channel moved to 1611.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Thanks - 1611 works fine.
> 
> 
> I still have Passport with no real complaints. No chance of my moving to sat because of neighbor's trees blocking the South view.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13409378
> 
> 
> with my new TiVo HD my bill went from 137.00 to 128.00.



Does the $128 include the fee you pay to Tivo?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13411957
> 
> 
> Welcome to AVS blinkcowz182!! What Time Warner equipment do you have? Any change in the appearance of your program guide? Believe me, you'll notice when you get navigator



He said he had a Tivo HD and he's waiting for card install. Do you read anything before you post?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13409686
> 
> 
> I'm new to this forum, and relatively new to the area & cable, so my apologies if this has been covered already. Currently have a SA Explorer 3250HD on TWC Digital tier, in Suburban Cleveland 2, so no line-up change yet.
> 
> 
> I have just got a TiVo HD, and TWC claim they are sending someone to install an M cablecard this Friday (21st). Took 4 phone call attempts to order - I'll let people know how I get on. Annoying that the receivable clear QAM channels don't appear in the TiVo guide meantime.
> 
> 
> There's a couple of questions that have been bugging me:
> 
> - with the line-up change, it looks like the 60-odd expanded basic channels previously only available in glorious 1980s analog are additionally being transmitted in digital. Is this correct, and if so where is the extra capacity coming from ?
> 
> - why doesn't the local WVIZ/PBS HD feed transmit the News Hour ?
> 
> 
> Keith
> 
> [Trying not to feel too nostalgic for my previous DVB-S setup..]



First, relax. I just got a TiVo HD and I have a S3. If you live in the old Adelphia area make sure they bring out two cards. I don't think they have M cards here yet and if they bring you one S card you won't be happy.


Since I have an S3 the rep told me "I'll just send out two of the same cards as on your other TiVo.


Tips.


Install one card first. Make sure it initiallizes. Make sure the tech reads the numbers corrctly to headend. It will take up to 10 minutes for the second card to initialize. Make sure that they understand that these cards have to be "married", united, whatever because they are in the same machine.


If they only bring you out one M card you should be OK. I just don't think they have them yet. And do not let them leave unless all your channels are working. If they arn't and they say "they will start working in a bit" you say bull ****, call tell them to call back headend and tell them it's not working.


Where do you live? Are you in native TW land, Old Comcast or Old Adelphia.


And don't listen to nickdawg.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13413013
> 
> 
> He said he had a Tivo HD and he's waiting for card install. Do you read anything before you post?



I think we should just rent out a boxing ring and give you two each a pair of those GIGANTIC boxing gloves and let you duke it out...







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/13412887
> 
> 
> Does the $128 include the fee you pay to Tivo?



No it doesn't Steve, because I don't pay 128.00 a month for my TiVo service. I paid 299.00 for 3 years on my S3 and 399.00 for lifetime service for my TiVo HD. Now I've never done the math but others have and they say over time not having to pay for your DVR service and DVR itself pays at least one of them off.


I can't really say about both of them.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13413092
> 
> 
> No it doesn't Steve, because I don't pay 128.00 a month for my TiVo service. I paid 299.00 for 3 years on my S3 and 399.00 for lifetime service for my TiVo HD. Now I've never done the math but others have and they say over time not having to pay for your DVR service and DVR itself pays at least one of them off.
> 
> 
> I can't really say about both of them.



I don't understand that pricing. Shouldn't it be that if you buy a lifetime membership that it would cover your whole house??... no matter how many Tivos you have? Seems like a ripoff to me. Although, paying the cable co a large every month to rent a cable box sounds like a rippoff to me too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13413123
> 
> 
> I don't understand that pricing. Shouldn't it be that if you buy a lifetime membership that it would cover your whole house??... no matter how many Tivos you have? Seems like a ripoff to me. Although, paying the cable co a large every month to rent a cable box sounds like a rippoff to me too.



Nobody said quality is cheap. Check this out:


Tivo Desktop 2.6 was released today. The registered version (Plus) now officially support HD video transfers -- it transfers Quicktime, DIVX, and other videos in high-definition resolution rather than downconverting them to SD.

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/domore/tivotogo/windows.html 



Quote:

ALVISO, Calif. – March 18, 2008 -- TiVo (NASDAQ: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVRs), today announced TiVo® subscribers can now watch video content from the Web directly on their television sets. Through an updated version of TiVo's Desktop Plus PC software, users can now discover and enjoy a broad range of Web entertainment available directly from their TV. The simple application, which uses the popular Season Pass™ functionality, continues to deliver on TiVo's pledge to offer consumers an easy way to search, discover and enjoy the broad range of entertainment no matter what the source.


Starting today, TiVo users can subscribe to and watch a broad range of video content available through Real Simple Syndication ("RSS") feeds, including everything from network nightly newscasts and The Sesame Street Podcast to Daily Headlines from MTV News and College Humor from CHTV. The application also gives consumers access to niche interest and hobbyist videos covering areas far more specialized than cable and satellite channels.


The availability of the Web video comes on the heels of last week's announcement that TiVo subscribers will be able to access YouTube™ videos directly on the TV via a TiVo DVR later this year. Upon launch of the TiVo-YouTube service, TiVo users will be able to search, browse and watch these videos directly on their television sets.


"TiVo users will have the best video from the Web easily available on their television sets from user generated as well as brand named sites," said Tara Maitra, Vice President and General Manager of Content Services at TiVo.


The new Web video capability requires TiVo Desktop Plus 2.6, an update to the Windows application which also converts TV shows recorded on a TiVo DVR for viewing on portable devices including iPod and Sony PlayStation™ Portable. TiVo Desktop Plus 2.6 is available for a one-time fee of $24.95, and is a free upgrade to earlier versions. "TiVo continues to work with Roxio on delivering equivalent functionality on the Mac platform."


With this new feature, users can choose web videos downloaded on the home PC using web browsers, RSS video clients such as iTunes podcasts, or other video download software to automatically copy to their TiVo DVR's Now Playing List alongside recorded broadcast and cable TV shows. TiVo is also providing an on-screen guide of select Web video sources for users to browse and select as individual episodes or get a Season Pass™. Subscribers can even use the TiVo service's Season Pass functionality to get their own personal video folders on their PC, where they save their home movies and other video downloads. High Definition television enthusiasts will appreciate that TiVo preserves the original quality of high-resolution web videos, up to 720p, when delivered to TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD DVRs.


Maitra added, "Through the addition of new applications such as web video, we continue to build towards our goal of making TiVo the one stop shop for content, through one box and one integrated user interface. With our combination of premium content available through Amazon Unbox, millions of songs via Rhapsody and music videos, and soon YouTube videos, we feel like we're connecting consumers to entertainment in a way no one else can."


For more information on TiVo or to download TiVo Desktop Plus visit www.tivo.com/desktop .


You can see the screen shots here .


----------



## Cathode Kid

If you're in the Canton area, look for a lineup change Wednesday morning.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13413179
> 
> 
> If you're in the Canton area, look for a lineup change Wednesday morning.



Sweeet..


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13412480
> 
> 
> Is there anyway to have the EPG and all other on screen graphics on my SA8300HD show up in wide screen instead of 4:3 SD?



I think you can do this on the Navigator boxes - not sure about the Passport ones. There's an option somewhere in the setup screen that controls this, but I don't remember what it's labeled. Something about aspect ratio...


----------



## mnowlin

Got the new channel lineup today (late last night). Cuyahoga Falls near State & Broad.


My TiVo hasn't picked up on it yet. Just kicked off a "connect to TiVo now", but no joy.


Edit: Went through Guided Setup again to pick the channel lineup - that seems to have fixed the problem. The TiVo knows both old & new lineups, and just needed to be told which one to use.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13406641
> 
> 
> Well, I noticed after the update that the software platform is S3. I'm having a bit of a problem when I first turn on the TV I get a greeninsh picture. When I turn it off and turn it on it's fine, but I shouldn't have to do that. I've ordered a HDMI-DVI cable and I'll experiment with the settings. Right now I'm back on native, I was on 720p hybrid but when I used the TiVo STB I believe it was on native.



Hmm - haven't noticed that on mine. (I'm using component video and the native setting.)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13406641
> 
> 
> Other then that I have to admit it looks just like the S3, with the exception of the front panel. And what a great idea to put the cable cards in the FRONT instead of the back!
> 
> 
> I also notice no cable card install instructions came with this. Did I miss something?



There was a separate single-page writeup in the box labeled "Attention Cable Card Installer" or something like that. I probably still have it around somewhere...


----------



## gregshoh

I got the realignment sometime early morning Tuesday.......still no navigator yet








.......of the new HD channels I personally thing HGTVHD is the best by far.....was watching House Hunters or ever what it's called and the picture was just gorgeous..........I am in SE Akron Springfield/Lakemore area.......


----------



## nickdawg

If you have a Passport DVR the Navigator downgrade MAY be coming tonight. It would make sense that they do non-DVR boxes one day and DVRs another day. Just in case something goes wrong(other than the fact we're getting Navigator).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13415264
> 
> 
> If you have a Passport DVR the Navigator downgrade MAY be coming tonight. It would make sense that they do non-DVR boxes one day and DVRs another day. Just in case something goes wrong(*other than the fact we're getting Navigator*).




Isn't that enough?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13415110
> 
> 
> Hmm - haven't noticed that on mine. (I'm using component video and the native setting.)



I am too now. Still no change, but I don't have to turn it off just change channels.







No big deal



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13415110
> 
> 
> There was a separate single-page writeup in the box labeled "Attention Cable Card Installer" or something like that. I probably still have it around somewhere...



If I ever get time I'll go look for it in the box. I've got until April 5.


----------



## smoti17

Thanks for the answers & info. I'm in Shaker, it has been TWC since I moved here but I'm fairly certain it was Adelphia before then. If I understood dj9 correctly "Legacy TWC" systems are those weren't Adelphia etc before, and there's no magic capacity change, just more efficient use of it as per established TWC practice. And I kind of suspected Ideastream were just being pathetic - the analog picture quality is painful :-(


The TWC rep I spoke to seemed fairly certain they had M cards, I guess we'll see how that goes... My TiVo HD came with a small page of cablecard instructions but there's a more detailed set on their website which I'll be printing out for the install guy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13420069
> 
> 
> Thanks for the answers & info. I'm in Shaker, it has been TWC since I moved here but I'm fairly certain it was Adelphia before then. If I understood dj9 correctly "Legacy TWC" systems are those weren't Adelphia etc before, and there's no magic capacity change, just more efficient use of it as per established TWC practice. And I kind of suspected Ideastream were just being pathetic - the analog picture quality is painful :-(
> 
> 
> The TWC rep I spoke to seemed fairly certain they had M cards, I guess we'll see how that goes... My TiVo HD came with a small page of cablecard instructions but there's a more detailed set on their website which I'll be printing out for the install guy.




Yeah, I never saw that sheet but I was pretty sure that there were some instructions on the web. I'm going to look this week end.


Shaker Heights isn't too far away from me, I don't know I'd feel better with 2 S cards but who knows what they will bring out.


----------



## Lighting Guy

Interesting one yesterday... I got a call from a guy at TWC who said there were some reports of channels not working correctly in my complex. I only have broadcast (lifeline) basic, so when he started naming channels above 25 I stopped listening. Anywho I mentioned to him that about 1-2 weeks ago my analog/ntsc tv was actually getting zero channels, everything was snowy, but that my QAM tuner tv was receiving the digital channels just fine (and the one analog channel I watch on that tv). He insisted it was only a problem on these 4 channels, but said he would send out a truck roll for me. (This was after I had to explain to him what an ntsc and qam tuner was, and that I didn't call to have a tech come out, because the last time I did, no tech even showed up!)


Also mentioned that while they were out in the area diagnoising this 4 channel problem, they were going to take off the trap of all the lifeline basic customers and let them try the regular cable for a month, I just have to call them back and tell them if I want it or not. I told him I wouldn't keep it, but if its still worth their time that sure, take off the trap. Never heard of this, but figured why not if I just call them back in a few weeks and say, take it back, don't want your overpriced cable!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/13420724
> 
> 
> Interesting one yesterday... I got a call from a guy at TWC who said there were some reports of channels not working correctly in my complex. I only have broadcast (lifeline) basic, so when he started naming channels above 25 I stopped listening. Anywho I mentioned to him that about 1-2 weeks ago my analog/ntsc tv was actually getting zero channels, everything was snowy, but that my QAM tuner tv was receiving the digital channels just fine (and the one analog channel I watch on that tv). He insisted it was only a problem on these 4 channels, but said he would send out a truck roll for me. (This was after I had to explain to him what an ntsc and qam tuner was, and that I didn't call to have a tech come out, because the last time I did, no tech even showed up!)
> 
> 
> Also mentioned that while they were out in the area diagnoising this 4 channel problem, they were going to take off the trap of all the lifeline basic customers and let them try the regular cable for a month, I just have to call them back and tell them if I want it or not. I told him I wouldn't keep it, but if its still worth their time that sure, take off the trap. Never heard of this, but figured why not if I just call them back in a few weeks and say, take it back, don't want your overpriced cable!



Maybe they'll forget to put the filters back on...


----------



## mgd6912

Canton, Oh has the new channel lineup. The one cool thing I did notice is that I did not have to change all my series recordings to the new channel. It did it for me!! WOOO HOOOO +1 to whoever!! Another plus is STO HD!!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/13421728
> 
> 
> Canton, Oh has the new channel lineup. The one cool thing I did notice is that I did not have to change all my series recordings to the new channel. It did it for me!! WOOO HOOOO +1 to whoever!! Another plus is STO HD!!



Well, as an FYI, I'm not far from you... where Canton, N.Canton, and Lousville come together. I subscribe to Lifeline Basic and watch some digitals and locals in HD via QAM. I just did a rescan on one of my TVs and nothing new for me. Maybe they're putting a delay on the QAM stuff. I figure at the very least I should be getting WBNX-HD, so...


----------



## MediaObsessions

Hey everyone, I'm in the Canton area-- Does anyone know if the new TWC HD channels are SDV? I'm having troubles tuning them on my TiVo S3. Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13422096
> 
> 
> Hey everyone, I'm in the Canton area-- Does anyone know if the new TWC HD channels are SDV? I'm having troubles tuning them on my TiVo S3. Thanks.



Did you not read the last few posts? Call TiVo and let them know they have changed their guides.


This should have been taken care of already. And you can get a copy of the new channel line up at http://www.twcguide.com/media/cust-infoletter.pdf


----------



## MediaObsessions

Thanks Hookbill, actually I'm repeating Guided Setup right now, as indicated by someone earlier this should fix it. Just wondering if it was SDV or not, that's all. By the way, we miss you over at the TiVo Community forums.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13422370
> 
> 
> Thanks Hookbill, actually I'm repeating Guided Setup right now, as indicated by someone earlier this should fix it. Just wondering if it was SDV or not, that's all. By the way, we miss you over at the TiVo Community forums.



It won't be SDV yet, but in a sense it is the start of what they need to do to get SDV going. And thanks for your kind words.


If guided setup does not work then do a call in. See if you get a channel message change. I've been told by a person at head end that all principle players will be made aware of the changes as they happen. If that doesn't work then call TiVo and let them know. Be prepared to give them a link for your area so they can pass it on to Tribune Media.


----------



## hookbill

Looking over at www.zap2it.com , owned by Tribune Media and TiVo's program guide I see now that they have two line ups for the areas that are changing. For example, Green has their old line up and their "upgraded" one. I also noticed that folks serviced in the Macedonia area had the dual list as well.


TW Cleveland people, we do not have an upgraded list yet so we will probably be the last to get the change.


----------



## MediaObsessions

Repeating guided setup worked, the new lineup was successfully programmed and season passes changed to their correct channel. But, the new HD channels are still not tuning, even with a reboot. Guide info is there, but it just shows a black screen. A quick look at the cablecard diagnostics shows that the cards are tuned and have good signal strength. Maybe TWC needs to re-hit my cards or they haven't pushed out the correct info yet. Kind of weird, it is only the new HD channels. Everything else works and looks great. I'll give it a day or two and then call customer service if nothing happens.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13422817
> 
> 
> TW Cleveland people, we do not have an upgraded list yet so we will probably be the last to get the change.



The "Digital Rebuild" lineup tabbed to Cleveland Heights (ex-Adelphia) now has the new lineup. On Zap2It.com, that is...I still have the old lineup here on the ex-Adelphia system.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13423051
> 
> 
> Repeating guided setup worked, the new lineup was successfully programmed and season passes changed to their correct channel. But, the new HD channels are still not tuning, even with a reboot. Guide info is there, but it just shows a black screen. A quick look at the cablecard diagnostics shows that the cards are tuned and have good signal strength. Maybe TWC needs to re-hit my cards or they haven't pushed out the correct info yet. Kind of weird, it is only the new HD channels. Everything else works and looks great. I'll give it a day or two and then call customer service if nothing happens.



It could be. I would still do a manual call in and see what happens.


----------



## Tim Lones

As Canton received the new Time Warner lineup Wednesday, I thought I would update the QAM Channel list..This includes analog 71-76 as they are in the middle of the digital lineup for me..several new channels recently..




3-1 WKYC-HD

3-2 WKYC Weather Plus

5-1 WEWS-HD

8-1 WJW-HD

19-1 WOIO-HD

43-1 WUAB-HD

49-1 WEAO-HD

49-2 WEAO-SD



71 Oxygen

72 Sci-Fi

74 Soapnet

75 Jewelery TV

76 STO


78-1 WVIZ-HD

78-2 WVIZ-Ohio Channel

78-3 WBNX-HD

86-6 Lifetime

94-1 Appears to be Local Access

94-2 WTOV-9 Steubenville

94-3 Jewelery TV

94-4 Fox News

94-5 TBS

94-6 Versus

94-7 Shop NBC (More Sports with Les Levine was on 11-Midnight)


100-2 WEWS-SD

100-3 Discovery

100-4 Norton, Ohio Local Bulletin Board (?)

100-5 E!

106-11 TWC PPV Barker Channel

112-12 Catholic FamilyLand-New to TWC

121-6 La Familia Cosmopolitan (Spanish-some English commercials)

122-9 NBA League Pass Barker Channel

123-5 WIVM-52 Canton

124-3 Movies on Demand Barker Channel

124-10 Movies On Demand Barker Channel

124-14 Sprout-New to TWC

124-15 Reelz-New to TWC

124-16 Informercial Channel


With Family Land, Les Levine and Local Access, This might just be worth keeping hooked up..


----------



## nickdawg
















I love the smell of Tivos melting down in the morning


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13424343
> 
> 
> As Canton received the new Time Warner lineup Wednesday, I thought I would update the QAM Channel list..This includes analog 71-76 as they are in the middle of the digital lineup for me..several new channels recently..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3-1 WKYC-HD
> 
> 3-2 WKYC Weather Plus
> 
> 5-1 WEWS-HD
> 
> 8-1 WJW-HD
> 
> 19-1 WOIO-HD
> 
> 43-1 WUAB-HD
> 
> 49-1 WEAO-HD
> 
> 49-2 WEAO-SD
> 
> 
> 
> 71 Oxygen
> 
> 72 Sci-Fi
> 
> 74 Soapnet
> 
> 75 Jewelery TV
> 
> 76 STO
> 
> 
> 78-1 WVIZ-HD
> 
> 78-2 WVIZ-Ohio Channel
> 
> 78-3 WBNX-HD
> 
> 86-6 Lifetime
> 
> 94-1 Appears to be Local Access
> 
> 94-2 WTOV-9 Steubenville
> 
> 94-3 Jewelery TV
> 
> 94-4 Fox News
> 
> 94-5 TBS
> 
> 94-6 Versus
> 
> 94-7 Shop NBC (More Sports with Les Levine was on 11-Midnight)
> 
> 
> 100-2 WEWS-SD
> 
> 100-3 Discovery
> 
> 100-4 Norton, Ohio Local Bulletin Board (?)
> 
> 100-5 E!
> 
> 106-11 TWC PPV Barker Channel
> 
> 112-12 Catholic FamilyLand-New to TWC
> 
> 121-6 La Familia Cosmopolitan (Spanish-some English commercials)
> 
> 122-9 NBA League Pass Barker Channel
> 
> 123-5 WIVM-52 Canton
> 
> 124-3 Movies on Demand Barker Channel
> 
> 124-10 Movies On Demand Barker Channel
> 
> 124-14 Sprout-New to TWC
> 
> 124-15 Reelz-New to TWC
> 
> 124-16 Informercial Channel
> 
> 
> With Family Land, Les Levine and Local Access, This might just be worth keeping hooked up..



Ditto on that line-up.. finally. I was actually right in the middle of a rescan when you posted, and when the rescan was done... BOOLYA!... *WBNX-HD*, and GOOD_LORD_GOD_ALMIGHTY, my wife might actually seduce me when she finds out we have *Lifetime*.

I wonder why they didn't map WBNX-HD to 55.1. Maybe they'll get to it later.


----------



## nickdawg

"Cheers" on WBNX-HD looks fantastic!! No ghosts, no haze, no diagonal stripes, no blurriness.







Just clear picture and Kirstie Alley when she was really hot!!


----------



## azporter

Wadsworth Township got the new line-up this morning. Wife tells me the TV still works after the update which is a pleasant surprise.










Now I'm just waiting for some new HD channels that I value.


hookbill: my old "sa8300hd issues" turned out be signal quality issues that TWC couldn't figure out on the main feed in the area. I know, I know, if I had a TivoHD it would unaffected.







I'm going to hang in here with my Passport SA8300HD until we get Navigatored.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/13430716
> 
> 
> hookbill: my old "sa8300hd issues" turned out be signal quality issues that TWC couldn't figure out on the main feed in the area. I know, I know, if I had a TivoHD it would unaffected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to hang in here with my Passport SA8300HD until we get Navigatored.



You would have had the same problem with the TiVo so no big deal. Hey, if your happy with the SA 8300 and it does what it's suppose to do then stay with it. It just didn't work for me.


Have fun though with navigator.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13432154
> 
> 
> You would have had the same problem with the TiVo so no big deal. Hey, if your happy with the SA 8300 and it does what it's suppose to do then stay with it. It just didn't work for me.
> 
> 
> Have fun though with navigator.



Yeah, that's not going to happen. I actually watch most everything through MythTV but use the SA8300HD for the channels I can't get QAM (ESPN*). When we're Navigatored I'll switch to TivoHD.


Frankly, I've read too much of tivocommunity.com to think that a switch to TivoHD will be painless (inept cablecard installers).


I am also curious how much content on the non-local channels that TWC NEO has marked such that you can't use Tivo to Go on it. I know many areas have problems with the copy flags such that the "value add" features are not as useful. I already have full control over my QAM content with MythTV so it would be nice if TivoHD on TWC NEO wouldn't be crippled like many people are reporting in other TWC areas.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/13432875
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's not going to happen. I actually watch most everything through MythTV but use the SA8300HD for the channels I can't get QAM (ESPN*). When we're Navigatored I'll switch to TivoHD.
> 
> 
> Frankly, I've read too much of tivocommunity.com to think that a switch to TivoHD will be painless (inept cablecard installers).
> 
> 
> I am also curious how much content on the non-local channels that TWC NEO has marked such that you can't use Tivo to Go on it. I know many areas have problems with the copy flags such that the "value add" features are not as useful. I already have full control over my QAM content with MythTV so it would be nice if TivoHD on TWC NEO wouldn't be crippled like many people are reporting in other TWC areas.



Well, you have to remember that the only ones who complain about cable card problems are the ones that have them. That doesn't mean that everyone who has an install does. I didn't. But I was like the first guy in the area to get an S3 and I made a big stink via email about the lack of CSR knowledge and somehow that got sent to a Supervisor who personally came out with like 5 cards to make sure it got working.


Now as you are probably aware the new DVR's that people get have cable cards in them as well. So even though the install may be different the techs are getting more familiar with them.


All you have to do is hand them the install sheet and remember, your'e the customer. Don't be mean but explain that this is your machine and this is the way you want the cards installed. If they give you a bad time or act like they know it all tell them they personally will be responsible if the machine doesn't work.


Now about restricted content. Right now on my S3 63 recordings, 5 of which are blocked. A Black Crows concert, a HD Tune up recording from HDnet, and 3 shows from HBO. That's it. It seems that the cable companies are blocking transfer of any non network show but if you get more then one TiVo HD that shouldn't be a problem. I don't know about ESPN since I always watch sports live. None of the digital channels are blocked, just HD.


I've got them coming out to install my cable cards on the TiVo HD I recently purchased on 4/5. I'll give you an update then.


----------



## intermod

Holy Crap !!!

Sorry for interupting the compeling disertaitions re: Cable reception of HD via TW

in Akron. But I can not Belive that WKBF's Tower's Top light is out yet again....

Been Drinkin' a whole lot lately and gazzin' Gimme a Break, How stupid is this..

Pisses me off.


OTA all the WAY.. It's not the Medium, But the content.

Were Doomed.



PS: gforaker in Doyelstown Oh. Please PM Me, I Think I'm your

Nephew. We saw Holly last weekend...


----------



## Smarty-pants

Now back to your regularly scheduled program already in progress...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/13432875
> 
> 
> I am also curious how much content on the non-local channels that TWC NEO has marked such that you can't use Tivo to Go on it.



Just looked at mine - the only things marked as protected are the shows I've recorded on the premium channels. Stuff on channels like Bravo, Food Network, and Comedy Channel can be pulled from the TiVo. My guess, as a general rule, is if you can record it on MythTV, you won't have problems grabbing it from TiVo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13424346
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the smell of Tivos melting down in the morning



Now how in the heck did I miss that clever and remarkably intelligent statement yesterday!


----------



## smoti17

Well, no real surprises from my install - I expected to get there in the end and for some bumps along the way, & that's how it was. The tech showed up early and it was all done in 20 mins, but needless to say he only brought one S-card (sigh) - it was dated 2006 and had been pre-used. It was his first cablecard install, and some delays and fiddling were needed with the TWC cablecard internal escalation support line to clear out the old subscriber data, and then the channels all came on-line fine. Very irritating that there is no second tuner capability at all on non-encrypted channels, but called TWC again and they are sending a tech with S-card#2 out tomorrow.


More worrying was my HD TiVo threw a weird wobbler *after* everything cablecardy was working and I re-did guided setup - wouldn't tune analog channels, HDMI colors strange, black background to menus :-( A restart of the TiVo and my AV-amp seemed to clear this, but disturbing.


No sign of the new line-up yet - I'll be hanging onto my SA clunkybox until after that just to be safe.


Also just got my hands on a Popcorn Hour A-100 HD media player - looks like a nice toy


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13437172
> 
> 
> Well, no real surprises from my install - I expected to get there in the end and for some bumps along the way, & that's how it was. The tech showed up early and it was all done in 20 mins, but needless to say he only brought one S-card (sigh) - it was dated 2006 and had been pre-used. It was his first cablecard install, and some delays and fiddling were needed with the TWC cablecard internal escalation support line to clear out the old subscriber data, and then the channels all came on-line fine. Very irritating that there is no second tuner capability at all on non-encrypted channels, but called TWC again and they are sending a tech with S-card#2 out tomorrow.
> 
> 
> More worrying was my HD TiVo threw a weird wobbler *after* everything cablecardy was working and I re-did guided setup - wouldn't tune analog channels, HDMI colors strange, black background to menus :-( A restart of the TiVo and my AV-amp seemed to clear this, but disturbing.
> 
> 
> No sign of the new line-up yet - I'll be hanging onto my SA clunkybox until after that just to be safe.
> 
> 
> Also just got my hands on a Popcorn Hour A-100 HD media player - looks like a nice toy




To be honest I'm a bit concerned about this install myself. The office is the Concord office and I use to have Macedonia. My order calls for two cable cards but if they bring out old ones or not I have no idea.


I think I'll call customer service and see if I can request new cards. I do know my order request two cards because she repeated it to me.


----------



## nickdawg

I just saw a commercial for Navigator. Got another website: http://mytwcnavigator.com/


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13437172
> 
> 
> Well, no real surprises from my install - I expected to get there in the end and for some bumps along the way, & that's how it was. The tech showed up early and it was all done in 20 mins, but needless to say he only brought one S-card (sigh) - it was dated 2006 and had been pre-used. It was his first cablecard install, and some delays and fiddling were needed with the TWC cablecard internal escalation support line to clear out the old subscriber data, and then the channels all came on-line fine. Very irritating that there is no second tuner capability at all on non-encrypted channels, but called TWC again and they are sending a tech with S-card#2 out tomorrow.
> 
> 
> More worrying was my HD TiVo threw a weird wobbler *after* everything cablecardy was working and I re-did guided setup - wouldn't tune analog channels, HDMI colors strange, black background to menus :-( A restart of the TiVo and my AV-amp seemed to clear this, but disturbing.
> 
> 
> No sign of the new line-up yet - I'll be hanging onto my SA clunkybox until after that just to be safe.
> 
> 
> Also just got my hands on a Popcorn Hour A-100 HD media player - looks like a nice toy



I vaguely remember something about CableCard pairs should be the same revision level or you end up with problems... and if TWC has to make two separate trips the odds of you getting identical cards are... who knows .... maybe hookbill remembers something about this?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13424343
> 
> 
> With Family Land, Les Levine and Local Access, This might just be worth keeping hooked up..



I THINK Les' show ends up on ShopNBC for folks down in New Philly/Dover, who don't have (I believe) the TWC "NEON" local programming channel. I think I'd heard WKYC/TWC's "Akron/Canton News" was being fed there as well.


The odd thing here, though, is that Dover/New Philly is a former Adelphia area, and Canton, of course, is legacy TWC.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Is anyone else in Canton not getting WBNX-HD via QAM???

I had it the other day, but since then it has disappeared. I'm trying to figure out if they're still screwing with the system, or if there is something wrong with my line.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13438640
> 
> 
> I vaguely remember something about CableCard pairs should be the same revision level or you end up with problems... and if TWC has to make two separate trips the odds of you getting identical cards are... who knows .... maybe hookbill remembers something about this?



Yes, that's right they do have to be paired or "married" as I like to say.


The interesting thing about this is that their own new DVR's, use cable cards as well. So these people should know how to do an install, there is no excuse.


I have tried a few times to get an "M" card. I had a pretty good rep on the line tonight and he did the best he could but really couldn't find one. I mentioned their own new DVR's and he said that he knew they took two cards so I said OK, but make sure in the notes that I want only new cards and that the know I need two of them and that they were for an HD TiVo. They are all familiar with that now.


On the install sheet that comes with the HD TiVo is a place to write the card numbers down. I'll have him read them off to me as he puts them in and write them down for him. I'm hoping for no problems.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/13433653
> 
> 
> ... But I can not Belive that WKBF's Tower's Top light is out yet again....



If it's a burned out lamp, they should consider replacing it with an LED beacon.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13439678
> 
> 
> Is anyone else in Canton not getting WBNX-HD via QAM???
> 
> I had it the other day, but since then it has disappeared. I'm trying to figure out if they're still screwing with the system, or if there is something wrong with my line.



Rescan. It was mapped somewhere else and they might be mapping it to

55-1, like the rest of the locals(5-1, 19-1).


Watched part of "Smallville" last night. OMG!! It was fantastic. Watching Smackdown right now, it effen rocks!!































Now if only they'd add USA-HD for Monday Night


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13441238
> 
> 
> Rescan. It was mapped somewhere else and they might be mapping it to
> 
> 55-1, like the rest of the locals(5-1, 19-1).
> 
> 
> Watched part of "Smallville" last night. OMG!! It was fantastic. Watching Smackdown right now, it effen rocks!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only they'd add USA-HD for Monday Night



I think I did that already. I will try another re-scan tonight as soon as the kids are in bed.


----------



## nickdawg

According to Tim Lones, WBNX was mapped somewhere in the 80s. If they moved it, that channel would be dead.


As for WBNX, it was great. The only bad thing is their stupid local "WBNX-HD bug. The network pulls their bug when WWE graphics come on, but the local bug stays on, looking kinda dumb floating there.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13424343
> 
> 
> ...With Family Land, Les Levine and Local Access, This might just be worth keeping hooked up..



I know Les; I'll pass along the compliment.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13439678
> 
> 
> Is anyone else in Canton not getting WBNX-HD via QAM???
> 
> I had it the other day, but since then it has disappeared. I'm trying to figure out if they're still screwing with the system, or if there is something wrong with my line.



I'm still getting it fine on one tv on 78.3. My second tv won't pick it up though. We still haven't got the changes yet but we can pick up WBNX-HD via qam. We started getting it the night before Green got the changes, along with "in the clear" History, HGTV, A&E, and Food. A few days later TWC encrypted most, but I still get WBNX-HD, reelz, familyland, etc. I'm hoping we get the new lineup this coming week.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I'm thinking they must still be screwing with my area. I had everything that Tim Lones had, but only for one day. Now it's back to where it was before. I did start getting Sprout and Familyland about 2 weeks ago, those are still there. However, WBNX-HD disappeared now, and I can't get it on three different tuners. I had been getting different channels here and there too. Like about a week ago, I had A&E-HD, but only for a day. About 3 weeks ago I had Noggin, but only for two days.

I just need to be patient I guess. My brother, not so patient. He watches Discovery Health alot and when they took that away he was LIVID.


----------



## hershsa

Anyone else having issues with their guide? Not getting any data here but can still see the names of the channles and watch them.


----------



## nickdawg

Maybe Navigator is coming?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13442428
> 
> 
> Maybe Navigator is coming?



Maybe Jesus is coming?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13442487
> 
> 
> Maybe Jesus is coming?



I don't think even the good Lord could do a thing about the SA 8300 with Navigator. I do know however that he did provide us with TiVo so we wouldn't have to suffer. However just like there are people who will never accept Jesus as the savior, there are people who won't accept TiVo either.


Me, I'm in the agnostic part about Jesus.


nickdawg is a heathen TiVo atheist.


----------



## jtscherne

Can we *PLEASE* stop with this constant Navigator/TiVo back & forth bashing? It is useless information and adds nothing to the thread.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13443280
> 
> 
> Can we *PLEASE* stop with this constant Navigator/TiVo back & forth bashing? It is useless information and adds nothing to the thread.



Well, I'm sorry that I've bothered you with my "useless" information. And I didn't realize that you were the one who decided what was "useless" or informative on this thread. This is a "local" thread and they are switching HD equipment to Navigator and TiVo S3 and HD are alternatives. It's not like we are off topic.


I personally find my little exchanges with nickdawg fun and entertaining but I can see where someone who doesn't have cable and isn't interested in all the changes that are going on with TW right now might not. Smarty-Pants seems to enjoy it, but he has a sense of humor.


I'll stop because there are probably others who feel the same way you do but just to let you know I found your post kind of harsh. Something like, "look guys I know you are having fun with your Tivo/Navigator bashing but some of us are getting a bit tired" probably would have been a better way to put it.


But don't expect me to change my signature.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13443327
> 
> 
> Well, I'm sorry that I've bothered you with my "useless" information. And I didn't realize that you were the one who decided what was "useless" or informative on this thread. This is a "local" thread and they are switching HD equipment to Navigator and TiVo S3 and HD are alternatives. It's not like we are off topic.
> 
> 
> I personally find my little exchanges with nickdawg fun and entertaining but I can see where someone who doesn't have cable and isn't interested in all the changes that are going on with TW right now might not. Smarty-Pants seems to enjoy it, but he has a sense of humor.
> 
> 
> I'll stop because there are probably others who feel the same way you do but just to let you know I found your post kind of harsh. Something like, "look guys I know you are having fun with your Tivo/Navigator bashing but some of us are getting a bit tired" probably would have been a better way to put it.
> 
> 
> But don't expect me to change my signature.



I thought it was a perfect post. Sometimes I need help with a little analogy and that one was a perfect fit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13443480
> 
> 
> I thought it was a perfect post. Sometimes I need help with a little analogy and that one was a perfect fit.



So you think that being harsh is perfect?










To each his own. How would you feel if I said, "Can we quit this nonsense about what channel is where this week on the QAM tuners? I find it adds useless information and adds nothing to this thread."


Since I don't use QAM should I say something like that? No, it's not only harsh it's untrue.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13443280
> 
> 
> Can we *PLEASE* stop with this constant Navigator/TiVo back & forth bashing? It is useless information and adds nothing to the thread.



I think some of us find these Navigator/TiVo posts amusing and somewhat informative. They illustrate differences and shortcomings in both. It also keeps the thread entertaining. Hookbill and Nickdawg, keep it up!


----------



## schandorsky

Did anybody have trouble with the Cavs game in HD last night, I had no signal about 90% of the time, had to watch it in SD. I live in Amherst.


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13443280
> 
> 
> Can we *PLEASE* stop with this constant Navigator/TiVo back & forth bashing? It is useless information and adds nothing to the thread.



I agree completely.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/13444157
> 
> 
> I agree completely.



I have no doubt you do and many others probably do. I've said it before and I'll say it again, basically I like to think of us as friends on this threads and I'd rather avoid conflict.


So I will not carry on with the TW/SA 8300 comments anymore. I already said that, I just felt the post was a little harsh that's all. Having an "I agree," " no continue on with it" postings is now really a waste of time. So can we move on now?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intermod* /forum/post/13433653
> 
> 
> Holy Crap !!!
> 
> Sorry for interupting the compeling disertaitions re: Cable reception of HD via TW
> 
> in Akron. But I can not Belive that WKBF's Tower's Top light is out yet again....
> 
> Been Drinkin' a whole lot lately and gazzin' Gimme a Break, How stupid is this..
> 
> Pisses me off.
> 
> 
> OTA all the WAY.. It's not the Medium, But the content.
> 
> Were Doomed.
> 
> 
> 
> PS: gforaker in Doyelstown Oh. Please PM Me, I Think I'm your
> 
> Nephew. We saw Holly last weekend...



Look a couple pages back, I posted that it's out again. Who did you call last time the light was out?


BTW: That tower was not yet erected when ch 61 was WKBF.


----------



## hershsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13443604
> 
> 
> So you think that being harsh is perfect?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To each his own. How would you feel if I said, "Can we quit this nonsense about what channel is where this week on the QAM tuners? I find it adds useless information and adds nothing to this thread."
> 
> 
> Since I don't use QAM should I say something like that? No, it's not only harsh it's untrue.



sorry i quoted the wrong post. I liked the jesus anology earlier. My bad.


----------



## smoti17

Well it is not going smoothly - when I actually tried to record something last night (BBC America on 109), the tivo+card seemed to lose its authentication :-( Power-cycling sorted this, but who knows when it will recur. Plus right at the end of today's visit slot I got a call saying they were out of cards and couldn't bring one today. Sigh. I told them the existing one wasn't working properly, and when they got more (was told about a week) to bring two *new* ones.


On closer inspection the existing card (an SA Powerkey), dated March 2006, has v1 firmware so this does not exactly boost confidence. Until I get the new cards, is there any way of forcing a firmware upgrade (preferably without head-end intervention) ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13445256
> 
> 
> Well it is not going smoothly - when I actually tried to record something last night (BBC America on 109), the tivo+card seemed to lose its authentication :-( Power-cycling sorted this, but who knows when it will recur. Plus right at the end of today's visit slot I got a call saying they were out of cards and couldn't bring one today. Sigh. I told them the existing one wasn't working properly, and when they got more (was told about a week) to bring two *new* ones.
> 
> 
> On closer inspection the existing card (an SA Powerkey), dated March 2006, has v1 firmware so this does not exactly boost confidence. Until I get the new cards, is there any way of forcing a firmware upgrade (preferably without head-end intervention) ?



What a bunch of complete bull. No cards? That's a load of crap.

[email protected] 


For what it's worth on my work order I had them specify new cards only. "M" cards may not be available but I'm going to try and find out. I personally would pull the one cable card out and just run it with analog only. But that's me.


----------



## edjrwinnt

My Time Warner Install Experience Today:


I have Life-Line Basic and all I wanted was Digital Cable with no premium channels. I also need a M-Card for my new TiVo-HD. My window of time for install was 8 AM to 10 AM. Here is a list of the events as they unfolded:


10:25 AM I call Time Warner to ask them where the cable guy is. TimeWarner says he'll be there soon, or he'll call you soon to let you know when he's going to be there.


11:15 - 11:30 AM Cable guy finally shows up. He's not an actual TimeWarner employee but a sub-contractor. Anyways, he reads off his work order what is needed for the install. He doesn't know what a m-card cable card is, nor does his boss know what one is. He doesn't even know what a regular cable card is! I laugh and ask if he at least brought me the two hi-def boxes. I go to install both of the boxes myself while he removes the blocker outside so I can get the digital channels. One cable box won't even power up. The other one works as far as I can tell. However, Dicovery, ESPN and all the HD non-premium channels besides the locals will not come in. Cable guy tells me to call to get them activated. Cable guy leaves.


Well it's almost 3:00 now and I still haven't gotten all the channels that I'm paying for and I've been cutoff twice on the phone. Both times I got cutoff talking to a technician. Each time I call there is a 25-35 minute wait and I'm on my 3rd try. The "Menu", "Guide", and the "OnDemand" button don’t work on the remote. I cannot use the "Guide" button on the STB either. The Firewire port doesn't work either. The 8000 HD box looks beat and it’s dirty.


I took a day off of work for this and now I have to take another day off to hope this will work the 2nd time. It took 2 cable guys plus my own time to ultimately get the cable card working myself a year and half ago. I ultimately cancelled the service because the rates went up too high. Recently I was able to get the 2nd fastest Road Runner (behind Turbo) plus all the digital channels for $68 a month, which I thought wasn't a bad deal for Time Warner so I jumped back in. Now I'm starting to regret my decision to get a TiVoHD and get back with Time Warner.


I can't believe that large company can be this incompetent and still charge the money that they do. I've had numerous other bad experiences too with mulitple installs of Roadrunner that didn't work, and cable boxes that I picked up from the local office that were not fully functional because no one bothered to check to see if they worked right when someone else dropped them off. Unbelievable!


----------



## pbarach

You need to call a senior customer service rep and file a complaint with TWC--they may decide to not charge any of their installation fees and give you a month or two of free service.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13445526
> 
> 
> 11:15 - 11:30 AM Cable guy finally shows up. He's not an actual TimeWarner employee but a sub-contractor.



The sub-contractors vary in quality. When I had one out here to put in a new outlet, they drilled extra holes in the side of my house, didn't caulk anything at all, insisted that they had only black-covered coax and that TWC never supplied white-covered, and left me with an installation of such poor signal quality that I couldn't get decent internet service via cable modem and had a noisy TV picture.


After I complained, TWC sent out a supervisor and a helper (both employees) who apologized profusely, fixed the damage, spent a half-day figuring out why my signal was noisy and weak, installed a signal amplifier, and left everything working great (as it has since then, except for their system-wide periodic problems with on-demand services last year). They took off all installation charges and gave me a month or two of free service.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13445468
> 
> 
> What a bunch of complete bull. No cards? That's a load of crap.
> 
> [email protected]



I think you meant steve fry @ some other domain . And he never answered my (properly addressed) email about TWC's intention to start charging me for DVR service that I don't have and don't want.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13445623
> 
> 
> You need to call a senior customer service rep and file a complaint with TWC--they may decide to not charge any of their installation fees and give you a month or two of free service.
> 
> 
> 
> The sub-contractors vary in quality. When I had one out here to put in a new outlet, they drilled extra holes in the side of my house, didn't caulk anything at all, insisted that they had only black-covered coax and that TWC never supplied white-covered, and left me with an installation of such poor signal quality that I couldn't get decent internet service via cable modem and had a noisy TV picture.
> 
> 
> After I complained, TWC sent out a supervisor and a helper (both employees) who apologized profusely, fixed the damage, spent a half-day figuring out why my signal was noisy and weak, installed a signal amplifier, and left everything working great (as it has since then, except for their system-wide periodic problems with on-demand services last year). They took off all installation charges and gave me a month or two of free service.



Thanks for the reply. I've never paid for installation charges and I've had them out here at least a half dozen times since they bought out Comcast. I tried to get something out of them just now but they would only offer me 2 for 1 movie channels for one year with one month free. I said no thanks.


Now they are scheduled to come out on the 31st of this month to bring me the 2nd cable box and the M-Card. Customer Service just told me that I would be getting a phone call back later today to get my one SA 8000 STB setup right. I won't hold my breath. I originally decided to get cable 2 weeks ago and I still don't have what I'm supposed to have and it'll be another week and a half before I do.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Since I can't get my M-Card until a week from this Monday can ayone tell me if they've had any luck picking one up from a local Time Warner Office lately? Customer Service told me I could, and I told him that a year ago when I tried I could not. He put me on hold than came back and said that he would schedule another service call, but he didn't specifically say that the local office would still not give me one.


I know I'm reaching for straws here but I would like to get my TiVoHD setup sooner than later. There is no gurantee that the 2nd install will go any better than the first either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13445526
> 
> 
> My Time Warner Install Experience Today:
> 
> 
> I have Life-Line Basic and all I wanted was Digital Cable with no premium channels. I also need a M-Card for my new TiVo-HD. My window of time for install was 8 AM to 10 AM. Here is a list of the events as they unfolded:
> 
> 
> 10:25 AM I call Time Warner to ask them where the cable guy is. TimeWarner says he'll be there soon, or he'll call you soon to let you know when he's going to be there.
> 
> 
> 11:15 - 11:30 AM Cable guy finally shows up. He's not an actual TimeWarner employee but a sub-contractor. Anyways, he reads off his work order what is needed for the install. He doesn't know what a m-card cable card is, nor does his boss know what one is. He doesn't even know what a regular cable card is! I laugh and ask if he at least brought me the two hi-def boxes. I go to install both of the boxes myself while he removes the blocker outside so I can get the digital channels. One cable box won't even power up. The other one works as far as I can tell. However, Dicovery, ESPN and all the HD non-premium channels besides the locals will not come in. Cable guy tells me to call to get them activated. Cable guy leaves.
> 
> 
> Well it's almost 3:00 now and I still haven't gotten all the channels that I'm paying for and I've been cutoff twice on the phone. Both times I got cutoff talking to a technician. Each time I call there is a 25-35 minute wait and I'm on my 3rd try. The "Menu", "Guide", and the "OnDemand" button don’t work on the remote. I cannot use the "Guide" button on the STB either. The Firewire port doesn't work either. The 8000 HD box looks beat and it’s dirty.
> 
> 
> I took a day off of work for this and now I have to take another day off to hope this will work the 2nd time. It took 2 cable guys plus my own time to ultimately get the cable card working myself a year and half ago. I ultimately cancelled the service because the rates went up too high. Recently I was able to get the 2nd fastest Road Runner (behind Turbo) plus all the digital channels for $68 a month, which I thought wasn't a bad deal for Time Warner so I jumped back in. Now I'm starting to regret my decision to get a TiVoHD and get back with Time Warner.
> 
> 
> I can't believe that large company can be this incompetent and still charge the money that they do. I've had numerous other bad experiences too with mulitple installs of Roadrunner that didn't work, and cable boxes that I picked up from the local office that were not fully functional because no one bothered to check to see if they worked right when someone else dropped them off. Unbelievable!



I've never seen contracted TW people in this area. Can you tell us where you live? I know they use them in places like Los Angeles and such but I've never heard of them around here.


I tried to get an M card but nobody at the TW CSR's new what an M card was. I said fine, send two S cards. My appointment is on April 5.


Again it [email protected] . He's the big chief. Send an email.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13445915
> 
> 
> Since I can't get my M-Card until a week from this Monday can ayone tell me if they've had any luck picking one up from a local Time Warner Office lately?I know I'm reaching for straws here but I would like to get my TiVoHD setup sooner than later. There is no gurantee that the 2nd install will go any better than the first either.



The answer for that is no.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13445634
> 
> 
> I think you meant steve fry @ some other domain . And he never answered my (properly addressed) email about TWC's intention to start charging me for DVR service that I don't have and don't want.



I'm sorry. [email protected]


----------



## hookbill

edjrwinnt, I sent your experience to Steve Fry if you want to as well make sure he has your account number and or phone number.


I sure don't want a screw up like this.


Please realize that this is not TiVo's fault. I'll bet you are being serviced out of the Concord office and they are a bunch of idiots. I use to have the Macedonia office and they were great.


Can I ask you a couple of questions? When you first placed your order with the CSR did you:


1. Tell them you wanted 1 M card?


2. Tell them you wanted 2 cards?


3. Tell them what it was for?


I'm covering all my bases here, I haven't got time for a second call back and I would raise a fit if they didn't go immediately to get a second card. Maybe you did and it didn't work but I'd let them know that you will contact Steve Fry. The TW employees know who he is.


I'm really sorry you're having such a bad time. I've sent emails out to customer service, to Steve Fry, and I've checked on several occasions to make sure they have my order correct. I really believe that if you're proactive before install these problems can be avoided.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Well nobody ever called me back from Time Warner but the HD vesions of Discovery, ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT are all coming in now. I don't get hardly any channels between 100 and 200 though like I used to before. The buttons on the remote work except "onDemand", but I see how to access that now. I was accustomed to the old Motorola 6412 interface where you pressed either channel 1 or pressed "onDemand". The firewire port doesn't work though, but I did have the customer service guy send out two more boxes. Isn't the 8000 SA boxed really out-dated anyways?


The only reason I got back in the game with Time Warner was for TiVoHD plus Indians and Cav's games in Hi-Def. I'm really considering just caneling the whole idea and living with life-line basic, and use TiVoHD with the OTA HD locals. I already get STO-HD via Qam right now but that could change when the channel change hits.


The cable guys have always been nice and I have nothing against them. The company is just screwed up. Customer sevice, the local cable office and the cable guys are just not on the same page at all with anything, and haven't been since Time Warner took over.


I live in North Ridgeville. Thanks hookbill for forwarding my experience. The real kicker is the customer service rep told me that they are so busy that they had to get sub-contractors! I guess people are accustomed to getting screwed over with cable so they live with it.


Ed


----------



## nickdawg

To wrap up the Navigator/Tivo thing: Hookbill, you should change your signature. Instead of saying "SA8300", you should say "TW Navigator". A box is a box. I'm sure if we put Navigator on a Tivo box, it would still suck. Even the cartoon character tivo dude couldn't save it from Navigator. Or, if we put Tivo software on an 8300HD. Wonder how that would turn out?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13445256
> 
> 
> On closer inspection the existing card (an SA Powerkey), dated March 2006, has v1 firmware so this does not exactly boost confidence. Until I get the new cards, is there any way of forcing a firmware upgrade (preferably without head-end intervention) ?



Did you get a hardware version from a sticker on the card or from the diagnostic screen? A cablecard will normally compare the version of firmware it has against the version currently being advertised from the headend, and if it decides that it's outdated, it'll pull down the current version auto-magically.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13446608
> 
> 
> To wrap up the Navigator/Tivo thing: Hookbill, you should change your signature. Instead of saying "SA8300", you should say "TW Navigator". A box is a box. I'm sure if we put Navigator on a Tivo box, it would still suck. Even the cartoon character tivo dude couldn't save it from Navigator. Or, if we put Tivo software on an 8300HD. Wonder how that would turn out?



I clicked on the link for passport that you have. I have to admit it's much better then SARA, I mean just the interface it obviously looks better. I also got a look at the Navagator interface and although I haven't used it I have to say it looks better then SARA.


I will make a slight change in my signature. Let's just say that I have a better idea now about why you liked Passport so much, and unless the Navigator software has alot of glitches like I've heard it doesn't look too bad.


I'll never understand why Adelphia went with SARA. I'm sure they had their reasons. (CHEAP)










Probably in time they will work those glitches out of the Navigator software and it will work pretty well.


----------



## nickdawg

Interesting. I've actually looked at SARA and liked it. I pretty much know Passport is done, I've come to accept that.







As far as meeting SDV and OCAP needs, SARA can do it and is better than Navigator. I would be OK with Time Warner deciding to go with SARA instead. Mystro/Navigator is some bastard child of Time Warner that has been around since the early 2000s. It is still full of glitches and bugs. AFAIK, SARA is more stable and has been around longer. I'll have to check out the SARA thread.


Just about all the bad you've heard about navigator is true. I've used the OCAP ODN version as well as the MDN(legacy box) version. So far the MDN version has been worse. EVERY menu has a delay because it has to load data. Every time it loads sata, the picture/sound blacks out for a few seconds. It even did it to me searching 6 hours ahead in the guide!







It's on a bedroom TV, so it doesn't get much activity. Just from sitting from yesterday to now, it's messed up. The guide is blank and the channel banner says Loading.


Once my DVR gets downgraded, there may be another person on this forum jumping the Tivo bandwagon


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13448199
> 
> 
> Once my DVR gets downgraded, there may be another person on this forum jumping the Tivo bandwagon



OK we're probably already getting a few people upset but from what I see on Passport you simply had to type in a shows name to find it. With SARA you needed to know what day the darn show was on. And then there was the guide thing. In my area you could not program for first run only, and SARA is capable of doing that but we never got that info on our guide.


But as you're well aware the main reason I got rid of the SA 8300 is because it simply was unreliable. I don't know if that was because of the software, bad luck or whatever. I've stated before others have used it and never had the problems I did. Then again I've seen many that did.


I will say if you like your SA 8300 and it's reliable then keep it. If it records what you want when you want it to it would be a good basic DVR. In my case my first DVR was the D*TiVo so I always felt that the SA 8300 didn't compare yet I would have stayed with it if it just did the basic thing.


Now as you guys can see we are not bashing each other, we are simply discussing the differences in the software of the SA 8300 and our experience. I can understand how nickdawg feels, but I really think if he got a hands on with SARA he wouldn't be too happy.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Awe... isn't that sweet. You guys are talking so civil to each other now. Are you going to start dating now or what? I liked the argueing better. This coffee talk crap is boring





















.


----------



## Smarty-pants

This was posted here in the "deals" forum. Thought I'd pass it along for any of you Tivo users







.


Free $5 for Tivo owners!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*I saw this on another site. I did it last night and it worked! $5 gift certificate to amazon.com. Use it towards your next movie purchase!


With your TiVo remote:


Press TiVo button

Scroll to "Showcases & TV Guide"

Select "Corolla the X"

Select "Get a $5 Amazon.com Gift Card"



Thats it! Easy $5 bucks!*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13448948
> 
> 
> This was posted here in the "deals" forum. Thought I'd pass it along for any of you Tivo users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Free $5 for Tivo owners!
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *I saw this on another site. I did it last night and it worked! $5 gift certificate to amazon.com. Use it towards your next movie purchase!
> 
> 
> With your TiVo remote:
> 
> 
> Press TiVo button
> 
> Scroll to "Showcases & TV Guide"
> 
> Select "Corolla the X"
> 
> Select "Get a $5 Amazon.com Gift Card"
> 
> 
> 
> Thats it! Easy $5 bucks!*




Oh cool, that's either one free movie rental or five 99 cents specials!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13446510
> 
> 
> Well nobody ever called me back from Time Warner but the HD vesions of Discovery, ESPN, ESPN2 and TNT are all coming in now. I don't get hardly any channels between 100 and 200 though like I used to before. The buttons on the remote work except "onDemand", but I see how to access that now. I was accustomed to the old Motorola 6412 interface where you pressed either channel 1 or pressed "onDemand". The firewire port doesn't work though, but I did have the customer service guy send out two more boxes. Isn't the 8000 SA boxed really out-dated anyways?
> 
> 
> The only reason I got back in the game with Time Warner was for TiVoHD plus Indians and Cav's games in Hi-Def. I'm really considering just caneling the whole idea and living with life-line basic, and use TiVoHD with the OTA HD locals. I already get STO-HD via Qam right now but that could change when the channel change hits.
> 
> 
> The cable guys have always been nice and I have nothing against them. The company is just screwed up. Customer sevice, the local cable office and the cable guys are just not on the same page at all with anything, and haven't been since Time Warner took over.
> 
> 
> I live in North Ridgeville. Thanks hookbill for forwarding my experience. The real kicker is the customer service rep told me that they are so busy that they had to get sub-contractors! I guess people are accustomed to getting screwed over with cable so they live with it.
> 
> 
> Ed



Ed, you confuse me sometimes. I didn't know anything about you having an SA 8000. Yes, the SA 8000 is suppose to be outdated however Inundated continues to use it and says he has no problems other then the basic interface, he's a TiVo person. How the heck did you end up with an SA 8000?


Also for some reason I could have sworn you were in Shaker Heights which is what I told Steve Fry. However you're actually an old Comcast customer. I know that because you said you had a Moto box. Anyway he wouldn't have any idea where you lived by your post. I still suggest you send an email yourself and let him know what area you are in.


You do realize that with HD TiVo you will not get On Demand, correct? There currently is no two way communication between the TiVo HD and headend so that won't work and even when they introduce the USB "dongle" I'm not sure that it will, although quite honestly I don't see why it wouldn't. But there does seem to be a discussion about that on the TiVo Forum and apparently the general consensus seems to be that On Demand won't work.


At least that's what I've heard. People from the TiVo forum report also the the TiVo forum over here so that's where I get my info.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I guess the sub-contractors get the bottom of the barrell receivers. That's why the next guy coming out is bringing two more receiver for me to check out. The third one I will not keep and will go back.


Anyone that reads this thread, that needs Time Warner to come out to their house, should ask for a Time Warner only service person to save themselves a lot of grief. I would have, had I known Time Warner was using sub-contractors in my area.


I'm aware of the SDV issue. Thanks. I figured for $185 I wasn't out much on the TiVoHD if they dongle ends up being too expensive. I don't need Time Warner On Demand, I already have it for movies with VuDu.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, you said that Navigator is a "child" of TW since 2000. I'll take your word for it but I could have sworn that I read that SA is the one who came up with it.


I didn't know TW was in the HD software design business and if they are, just who the heck did they hire to come up with Navigator?


Since you say you've seen SARA and you think it's better then Navigator I have to ask.


Is Navigator able to search for a show simply by typing in the name? It looked to me like passport could. SARA you had to at least know what day the show was on.


Or is Passport similar to SARA on the search feature? That to me was my number 1 complaint about SARA, software/interface. My other complaints are well documented.


Also and I understand you might not be able to answer this because it appears your Navigator box isn't working right but did you lose your "first run only" feature?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13449927
> 
> 
> IAnyone that reads this thread, that needs Time Warner to come out to their house, should ask for a Time Warner only service person to save themselves a lot of grief. I would have, had I known Time Warner was using sub-contractors in my area.



When I was in the TiVo forum that was a big complaint. In the Los Angeles area they were sending subcontractors to do cable card installs. Nobody got it right until an actual TiVo rep came out.


On my order I asked for two cable cards. I requested only an experienced technician who has installed cable cards before.


I also put that in my note to Steve Fry. I told him there should be no excuse at this time why their techs should not be trained in how to install TiVo cable cards.


When I had my modem changed they actually came out and did an install after I contacted him instead of just shipping it UPS. I mentioned that if it is at all possible to send someone out after 6:30 pm anyday between now and my install that would be fine.


I have to admit, you've got me pretty nervous but we do live in two totally different areas so we will see what happens.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

had a question but it isnt valid anymore.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13449752
> 
> 
> Oh cool, that's either one free movie rental or five 99 cents specials!



Well, most people look at it as $5 off a product that you would have already purchased. Last time I checked, $5 was still good money.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13450889
> 
> 
> Well, most people look at it as $5 off a product that you would have already purchased. Last time I checked, $5 was still good money.



Hey, I wasn't knocking it. I was serious. 5 bucks is 5 bucks, I'll take it.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13450958
> 
> 
> Hey, I wasn't knocking it. I was serious. 5 bucks is 5 bucks, I'll take it.



Oh.. ok then


----------



## Smarty-pants

HAPPY EASTER TO EVERYONE!


(and if this religous holiday is not your bag, then hopefully you at least get an extra day off work this week







)


----------



## smoti17

Well, things seem more stable since the power cycle - Torchwood *much* more fun in all digital  Will dig for c/card hw rev level.


In the meantime, I'm holding back my skepticism that complaining to large corporations ever gets any results and composing a letter to Mr Fry. Does anyone know of an appropriate contact at TiVo I could copy it to ? Thank you Hookbill for all your advice - would be happy to copy my letter to you if you'd find that useful.


Something the installer said suggested he may have been a sub-contractor, but no evidence of this on any of the paperwork.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Easy way to tell if the installer/tech is a TW employee...

Look at the vehicle he is driving. If it says Time Warner on the side, then he works for them, if not, then he is a sub.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13451413
> 
> 
> Well, things seem more stable since the power cycle - Torchwood *much* more fun in all digital  Will dig for c/card hw rev level.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, I'm holding back my skepticism that complaining to large corporations ever gets any results and composing a letter to Mr Fry. Does anyone know of an appropriate contact at TiVo I could copy it to ? Thank you Hookbill for all your advice - would be happy to copy my letter to you if you'd find that useful.
> 
> 
> Something the installer said suggested he may have been a sub-contractor, but no evidence of this on any of the paperwork.



I don't think Mr. Fry ever reads these emails. But I do believe he has an admin assistant who does and sends it to the appropriate area.


I have on more then one occasion sent a letter to Mr. Fry and got a call back from a TW representative. When I complained about not having the correct modem for RR and what exactly does "shipped by ups in a few days" mean two days later I got a call from a guy who said he liked to come out and intstall my modem.


If you feel you're not getting results go to the boss. Hey, he doesn't want to hear this crap. And you know what goes downhill.


----------



## SteveMSU

I'm trying to help a friend out who lives in Cleveland and can't seem to pick up CBS. He's got Dish Network and was able to map all the HD locals except CBS with quite high signal strength (I think he said 80% range). Yet no CBS. He only lives 6-7 miles from all the antennas (compass heading 180 degrees or so per Antennaweb.org).


Are there any inherent problems with receiving your CBS-HD, or is this just an anamoly where he should just keep trying new antennas and maybe even a Dish Network box.


----------



## Tim Lones

Unless something happened very recently,,Dish doesnt offer HD locals in Cleveland..if by antenna, 19 has always been one of the weaker signals anyway


----------



## SteveMSU

I should have been more clear. Since Dish hasn't offered the HD locals yet he's going OTA for the HD locals right now. I'll let him know about the possibly weak signal, I just can't believe that at 7 miles he's having so much trouble. Unfortunately he can't access the back of his TV to see if the issue is the tuner in the Dish DVR (ie try pulling it just with his TV).


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13458938
> 
> 
> QAM on TW



Hey Tim







, please see post #12077.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post13439678 


Are you still getting WBNX-HD on TW via QAM? I'd appreciate any feedback/help.


----------



## Tim Lones

I did a rescan last night..WBNX-HD was still there on 78-3


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13459224
> 
> 
> I did a rescan last night..WBNX-HD was still there on 78-3



Thanks Tim. Sounds like I'm gonna need a truck-roll then.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMSU* /forum/post/13458893
> 
> 
> I'm trying to help a friend out who lives in Cleveland and can't seem to pick up CBS. He's got Dish Network and was able to map all the HD locals except CBS with quite high signal strength (I think he said 80% range). Yet no CBS. He only lives 6-7 miles from all the antennas (compass heading 180 degrees or so per Antennaweb.org).
> 
> 
> Are there any inherent problems with receiving your CBS-HD, or is this just an anamoly where he should just keep trying new antennas and maybe even a Dish Network box.



Your friend will need a VHF antenna for WOIO as well as WKYC. Even though they call themselves "CBS 19" their digital signal is on VHF ch 10. Thanks to an analog ch 10 out of Canada that will not be going away after Feb. 2009, they have to keep their power low.


If your friend is on the East side and on high ground, he may may be able to receive CBS via WKBN out of Youngstown. Their digital signal is on ch 41 and covers a large part of the Cleveland market. I can receive their digital signal 24/7 in Parma.


----------



## SteveMSU




> Quote:
> Your friend will need a VHF antenna for WOIO as well as WKYC. Even though they call themselves "CBS 19" their digital signal is on VHF ch 10. Thanks to an analog ch 10 out of Canada that will not be going away after Feb. 2009, they have to keep their power low.
> 
> 
> If your friend is on the East side and on high ground, he may may be able to receive CBS via WKBN out of Youngstown. Their digital signal is on ch 41 and covers a large part of the Cleveland market. I can receive their digital signal 24/7 in Parma.



Thanks for the in depth response. I'm going to have him try a couple different antennas and signal amplifiers just in case, but he may just be SOL. I know Dish was supposed to get the HD Locals up soon for Cleveland, but with the launch failure I'm not sure where they stand any more.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveMSU* /forum/post/13460511
> 
> 
> Thanks for the in depth response. I'm going to have him try a couple different antennas and signal amplifiers just in case, but he may just be SOL. I know Dish was supposed to get the HD Locals up soon for Cleveland, but with the launch failure I'm not sure where they stand any more.



Amplifiers may make things worse not better. Amplifiers tend to overload on the strong signals, so any benefit a weaker signal has is erased by the overload. You would have to be far away from any transmitter for an amplifier to work. Amps are broadband - they are not channel specific.


BTW: someone has posted that the Cleveland HD's are already uplinked at 61.5, just not yet turned on for customer's receivers. Even with HD's available on satellite, it will probably be limited to the "big 4" - no PBS CW or My Network (not that the last one has anything of consequence in HD).


----------



## Michael P 2341

Man, the more I read about all the problems cable customers have the gladder I am to have Dish


----------



## Michael P 2341

Here's the latest on Cleveland HD via Dish:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=123730


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13461933
> 
> 
> Man, the more I read about all the problems cable customers have the gladder I am to have Dish



Don't believe everything you read. Remember, I have cable cards and when I have had a problem I got it rectified.


I forwarded edjrwinnt problem to Steve Fry and mentioned my concern about my own install on my new TiVo HD. I told him that I didn't have a lot of faith in their technicians and I didn't want an inexperienced tech coming out on the only day I had off to try and do an install. I got a call today from the Supervisor at the Concord office who handles my area. My install isn't suppose to be until Saturday April 5.


He said that he would be more then happy to send an experienced tech out with several new "M" cards to make sure that my TiVo HD worked tomorrow night at 7:00 pm. He wanted to know why I complained about his office in particular and I told him the one time I got a truck roll the tech had an attitude, didn't fix my problem so I refused to sign the work order and he told me I would get a call back. I didn't. So that's why he got the bad knock.


So apparently Mr. Fry forward that to him and said something like "I don't want to see this type of s**t again."


I told the supervisor who's name was Nick that I appreciated the personalized service and that if things went well I would also send a letter to Mr. Fry commending him for his service.


There's the old saying: The squeaky wheel gets greased.


If you're complacent and put up with bull pucky you'll just continue to get it.


Once again it's [email protected] .


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13462204
> 
> 
> Don't believe everything you read. Remember, I have cable cards and when I have had a problem I got it rectified.
> 
> 
> I forwarded edjrwinnt problem to Steve Fry and mentioned my concern about my own install on my new TiVo HD. I told him that I didn't have a lot of faith in their technicians and I didn't want an inexperienced tech coming out on the only day I had off to try and do an install. I got a call today from the Supervisor at the Concord office who handles my area. My install isn't suppose to be until Saturday April 5.
> 
> 
> He said that he would be more then happy to send an experienced tech out with several new "M" cards to make sure that my TiVo HD worked tomorrow night at 7:00 pm. He wanted to know why I complained about his office in particular and I told him the one time I got a truck roll the tech had an attitude, didn't fix my problem so I refused to sign the work order and he told me I would get a call back. I didn't. So that's why he got the bad knock.
> 
> 
> So apparently Mr. Fry forward that to him and said something like "I don't want to see this type of s**t again."
> 
> 
> I told the supervisor who's name was Nick that I appreciated the personalized service and that if things went well I would also send a letter to Mr. Fry commending him for his service.
> 
> 
> There's the old saying: The squeaky wheel gets greased.
> 
> 
> If you're complacent and put up with bull pucky you'll just continue to get it.
> 
> 
> Once again it's [email protected] .



Very nice Hook. A perfect example of how to "get stuff done".


----------



## smoti17

Well, I sent e-mail to Steve Fry yesterday afternoon at the address Hookbill kindly provided. It was read at 7pm last night (Sunday), and at 09:30 this morning I had TWCNEO's Technical Ops Manager on the phone, who offered to send out a cablecard-experienced tech *tomorrow* with both M and S cards. And gave me his name and number. So that's pretty promising...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13463241
> 
> 
> Well, I sent e-mail to Steve Fry yesterday afternoon at the address Hookbill kindly provided. It was read at 7pm last night (Sunday), and at 09:30 this morning I had TWCNEO's Technical Ops Manager on the phone, who offered to send out a cablecard-experienced tech *tomorrow* with both M and S cards. And gave me his name and number. So that's pretty promising...



Yes. It's not surprising. Many people may think that at President of TW NEO doesn't want to be bothered by this, and in fact they don't. Their managers send them their reports which all look good on paper, but when they get the real story it pisses them off. When company Presidents get the real low down then they come down on those who may be the problem. It causes an attitude adjustment.


Now it may be only temporary but I'll bet that you will see improved service when you need to make a call in the future. And if they don't do what they are suppose to, you know what to do now don't you.










The guy I spoke with really sounded surprised, like he had no idea that maybe his techs wern't doing the quality of service that he hoped they would be doing. And you know they don't want another forwarded letter from Mr. Fry.


----------



## Inundated

hookbill, you are right, I do have an SA8000HD upstairs on the HD set...I've had it since before I even HAD an HD set







It's old Adelphia issue.


I don't use it heavily, so I'm not a good judge...I've got maybe three or four regular shows, and I watch occasionally. The SARA interface is super clunky (one reason I don't use it much!). I don't know if TWC is gonna wipe it out with Navigator.


Remember when we were all kicking around why they were warning about recorded shows going away? I assume a SARA to Navigator update would do just that - wipe out the recorded shows, no?







It would not be related to the digital channel lineup realignment, but to the software change...but no one, anywhere, seems to have figured that out yet!


----------



## mnowlin

When the new lineup hit last week, they added the new HD channels (Food, A&E, Cinemax, etc.) For some goofy reason, I can't get any of the new ones on my Tivo. I thought it might be a CableCard issue - called TWC and talked to one of the dumbest reps I've run into... He asked if I could get the channels on my other boxes - told him I only have one HD set, and only the new HD channels were having problems. That didn't appear to sink in - he kept asking me to try the other boxes. (And the idea of having two CableCards in a single device completely blew his mind.)


He finally decided (?) it must be a signal strength problem. (Huh?) Whatever... Must be the world's funkiest signal problem to only affect the new channels.


The tech will be here on Friday. Time to take hostages...


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13461933
> 
> 
> Man, the more I read about all the problems cable customers have the gladder I am to have Dish



Wow, the more I read about E*(Dish)the giddier I am about having D*!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13464990
> 
> 
> The tech will be here on Friday. Time to take hostages...



This I'm sure is a headend issue and probably something needs to be changed in the signal. If you want to wait until this Friday and see what happens, OK but then you may have to go a whole weekend or longer without your full line up.


I would check your diagnostic screen: TiVo/Messages and Settings/Account and System Info/Diagnostic. Take a look at the video pids and pcr pids. Do they match? Is there any info even there?


Also I'll mention this to the guy coming out to my house tongiht and see if he can give me some info and get back to you. If you can get back to me with the Diagnostic info that would be helpfull.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13463775
> 
> 
> Remember when we were all kicking around why they were warning about recorded shows going away? I assume a SARA to Navigator update would do just that - wipe out the recorded shows, no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would not be related to the digital channel lineup realignment, but to the software change...but no one, anywhere, seems to have figured that out yet!




I remember those conversations, but I don't recall that they were on this thread.


I don't understand your theory on navigator being the elimination of DVR all together. That was suppose to be like every channel has an "On Demand" feature", and considering how poorly that works now I still don't see that in the near future.


Inundated, you are not suppose to start controversy around here. You are the calm voice of reason in the crowd. It's my job to jump up and yell and scream, speculate, and generally end up apologizing for my behavior. Not yours.


----------



## Himey67

No changes yet here in New Phila/Dover that I know of.

The wait goes on ....


----------



## paule123

Re the SA8000HD box - I'm really surprised they are still installing those. I would be VERY surprised if you got firewire working at all on that box -- one of the reasons I had Wide Open West trade out my SA8000HD for an SA8300HD was because firewire was never going to be enabled on the 8000. Even on the 8300 firewire is a mixed bag and not what I would call reliable.


I also remember a lot of problems with DVI/HDCP on the 8000. The 8300 solved those.


----------



## smoti17

Latest on my TiVo HD cablecard install. Clueful TWC guy who had clearly been around many blocks on c/card installs showed up on time with at least two each of M and S cards. Various battles ensued, including people at the end head end hanging up on my installer as soon as the word "cablecard" was mentioned (!), the cards not being "staged", and some issues with OOB communication, resolved by the master head-end. It also seems that cards should be able to download the channel map for clear QAM channel tuning before they are authorized, but don't always do so.


Anyway, 2.5 hours later I had a working M card setup, only thing remaining was to run guided setup for the TiVo again so it realized it could now do dual tuner stuff.


I'm now pretty happy, TWC's escalation path clearly works and there are patient persistent clueful people there who care, once you track them down. The installer said to contact him directly if there were any problems arising from the channel change. I have names and phone numbers if others having problems would like them. Thanks again, Hook !


Too bad all my digital recordings so far are copy-protected so I can't move them to my Series2 or laptop, though :-(


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/13465554
> 
> 
> Wow, the more I read about E*(Dish)the giddier I am about having D*!!!



At least we have a choice in providers and that choice creates competition to the Cable and (soon to be) telco providers.


No matter how you get your programming we all win thanks to competition.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13468938
> 
> 
> Anyway, 2.5 hours later I had a working M card setup, only thing remaining was to run guided setup for the TiVo again so it realized it could now do dual tuner stuff.
> 
> 
> I'm now pretty happy, TWC's escalation path clearly works and there are patient persistent clueful people there who care, once you track them down. The installer said to contact him directly if there were any problems arising from the channel change. I have names and phone numbers if others having problems would like them. Thanks again, Hook !
> 
> (




Your very welcome. I hope mine doesn't take that long tonight.


----------



## pbarach

I re-sent my email message to Steve Fry (previously sent on 3/5 with no response). I got a call the following day from someone who resolved the problem (i.e., they agree not to charge me for the DVR feature on my 8300HD, which I never ordered and which is turned off). They will call me whenever they get an HD box in stock that doesn't have the DVR feature and I can exchange the equipment at that time.


So does anybody know what HD box TWC has for former Adelphia customers in NE Ohio that doesn't have DVR in it?


Thanks again to hookbill for providing Fry's email address.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13470368
> 
> 
> I re-sent my email message to Steve Fry (previously sent on 3/5 with no response). I got a call the following day from someone who resolved the problem (i.e., they agree not to charge me for the DVR feature on my 8300HD, which I never ordered and which is turned off). They will call me whenever they get an HD box in stock that doesn't have the DVR feature and I can exchange the equipment at that time.
> 
> 
> So does anybody know what HD box TWC has for former Adelphia customers in NE Ohio that doesn't have DVR in it?
> 
> 
> Thanks again to hookbill for providing Fry's email address.



They just took one out of my house 15 minutes ago.







My cable cards are installed and it took them about an hour and 15 minutes. It was the SA 3250, I looked it up on the internet.


And again your welcome.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13472457
> 
> 
> They just took one out of my house 15 minutes ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My cable cards are installed and it took them about an hour and 15 minutes. It was the SA 3250, I looked it up on the internet.
> 
> 
> And again your welcome.



The SA3250 doesn't have HDMI, according to the SA website--that's what they took out of your house?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13475301
> 
> 
> The SA3250 doesn't have HDMI, according to the SA website--that's what they took out of your house?



Correct, it did not have HDMI and it had an inactive DVI. I was using component cable.


I don't think TW, or al least old Adelphia ever had a HD box of any type that had HDMI until the SA 8300 was released. Even the SA 8000 had DVI and when I had one it was inactive and my understanding was they had no plans to activate it as the SA 8300 was replacing it with HDMI.


----------



## hookbill

*NON S3/HD TiVo people may skip this unless you're thinking of getting a S3 or HD TiVo:*

I'm going to post this on The TiVo S3 thread as well but I did notice a couple of problems that these guys had that I picked up on and cut down on install time.


The first problem is a well known one. The tech, with both of them looking at the screen and myself still read off the card ID number incorrectly off the screen. He wrote it down correctly but kind of lost his place when he paused to take a breath and repeated a zero. I caught it and at first he said know but I repeated exactly what I heard him say and he re-thought it and told the person on the phone, "lets start this one over."


The second and probably most time consuming problem they have is their inability to navigate on the TiVo. They wern't sure what screens had what information or how to get there. Now since my wife let them in she never gave them the install sheet but I'm not sure even that would help because we just know where the screens are at. At least previous TiVo owners are.


So I operated the remote and when they asked for something I went to the screens for them. They said that was a big help.


Another problem they are running across is what they say is "different software in different TiVo's." Probably true if you have them install on the same day you get a TiVo. I don't think most people do that but I showed them that the software for my HD TiVo was exactly the same as the S3, in fact it states on the system and information screen: Platform: S3.


So watch them carefully and help if you can with the navigation. They will appreciate it.


----------



## 2PuttChuck

I just got a new HD only box in Canton last week (no DVR), and it is an SA 4250HDC. It has HDMI, USB, S-video ouputs, etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/13476120
> 
> 
> I just got a new HD only box in Canton last week (no DVR), and it is an SA 4250HDC. It has HDMI, USB, S-video ouputs, etc.



Is the HDMI active?


----------



## 2PuttChuck

Yep - HDMI is active.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/13476120
> 
> 
> I just got a new HD only box in Canton last week (no DVR), and it is an SA 4250HDC. It has HDMI, USB, S-video ouputs, etc.



Wow, that must be the first non-DVR box that is HDMI capable. Great info, I might be getting one of those. Next month I'm dumping the old Pioneer SD box in the bedroom for an HD box.


----------



## smoti17

The non-DVR HD box I've been using up until now is also a SA 3250HD. It has a DVI output which seems to interoperate with HDMI fine, though when the HDMI is active it disables the component output.


TiVo HD cablecard stuff has been stable, but I've been looking into this copy-protection business. It seems that pretty much every channel in the digital basic package has the CCI byte set to 0x02, a fairly draconian setting which basically means that once you have recorded a programme, unlike with analog recordings of the same content on a Series 2 TiVo, you can't copy the content to a computer or even another TiVo :-( This seems excessive - are people seeing this in other TWC locations ? What about the new digital expanded basic lineup ?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13465708
> 
> 
> I don't understand your theory on navigator being the elimination of DVR all together.



OK, maybe I'm confused here...is Navigator a non-DVR-only interface? I thought it worked with both DVR and non-DVR boxes, much like SARA.


----------



## Inundated

Still on the old lineup here in ex-Adelphia-land.


A relative of mine is a workerbeetype for TWC, and says he thought he heard April/May (!) for the Adelphia end of things to switch. He didn't seem sure of the date, tho. My gut tells me they wanna be done with this by April 1st or so.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13482863
> 
> 
> OK, maybe I'm confused here...is Navigator a non-DVR-only interface? I thought it worked with both DVR and non-DVR boxes, much like SARA.



Now I'm confused. It works just like any other DVR. You watch live TV, or you record and watch later. What do you mean "non DVR boxes"? Are you saying you could take a STB and hook it up to the SA 8000? That's news to me. And why would you since it records and displays on it's own?


Navagator is simply another version of DVR software, like SARA and Passport only from what I am hearing it's very buggy. nickdawg seems to think SARA works better and if that's the case I feel real bad for people getting that software.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13482661
> 
> 
> TiVo HD cablecard stuff has been stable, but I've been looking into this copy-protection business. It seems that pretty much every channel in the digital basic package has the CCI byte set to 0x02, a fairly draconian setting which basically means that once you have recorded a programme, unlike with analog recordings of the same content on a Series 2 TiVo, you can't copy the content to a computer or even another TiVo :-( This seems excessive - are people seeing this in other TWC locations ? What about the new digital expanded basic lineup ?



No, that's not true. Copy 0x02 means copy once no transfer and the digital line up doesn't have that. The HD lineup that is beyond local broad cast does, but I don't think that includes ESPN. I'll double check that though. This may be true however for Premium Digital channels.


Edit: Upon further review.....


Yes, it looks like every digital channel with the exception of local HD is now set CCI: 0X2. That's not only wrong, it's illegal.


I'm going to send a vm to someone at head end at TW about this. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I will follow up with TiVo. These recordings should not be on "copy once". I don't know when they changed this but this isn't going to fly.


And for what it's worth I've read that HDnet has said they do not want copy protection on their broadcast as well. Wish me luck with this one.


----------



## dleising

We have a non-DVR box that has been "Navigator'd", it's okay I guess. Our 8300HD is still Passport. Why is TW really giving everyone Navigator anyway?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13482985
> 
> 
> No, that's not true. Copy 0x02 means copy once no transfer and the digital line up doesn't have that. The HD lineup that is beyond local broad cast does, but I don't think that includes ESPN. I'll double check that though. This may be true however for Premium Digital channels.
> 
> 
> Edit: Upon further review.....
> 
> 
> Yes, it looks like every digital channel with the exception of local HD is now set CCI: 0X2. That's not only wrong, it's illegal.
> 
> 
> I'm going to send a vm to someone at head end at TW about this. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I will follow up with TiVo. These recordings should not be on "copy once". I don't know when they changed this but this isn't going to fly.
> 
> 
> And for what it's worth I've read that HDnet has said they do not want copy protection on their broadcast as well. Wish me luck with this one.



Good luck Hook... God speed .


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13483484
> 
> 
> Good luck Hook... God speed .



I appreciate that. You know sometimes I feel like I'm the local watch dog of TW. Well, it's not that it's just me it's for most everybody. This copy protection would also prevent regular Tivo users who have a digital box and TiVo (yes, there are people who still have those) from doing transfers as well on their digital channels. And since TW doesn't offer that for their own boxes I guess it doesn't hurt them but in theory this should be possible. Some day.


Anyway I made a call at 11:00 last night to my contact. I'm not sure how big this person is on email and the email address I have is incorrect. I got it from a tw CSR a long time ago but all of our communication has been done by phone. However with me working full time and I'm out of the house early and don't get home until around 6:45 it's really the only way to go.


This person has always been helpful on things like this. She freed up MOJO at one time it was on copy never, for some unknown reason. But every digital channel being copy once? I don't think so.


FYI those with TiVo HD or S3 TiVo's you can see this at TiVo/Settings/System Information/Diagnostics. Scroll down until you see CC Byte: XX (usually 00 on HD locals and analog stations). It should be at the very highest 01 and I'm not sure if that's correct, I think since most of the stuff they show on the digital channels are old shows it should also be 00.


Anyway, I'll start with my contact. If that fails I'll get TiVo involved and perhaps Mr. Fry but in this instance I don't know if he could help me on this. I think my headend person is my best resource.


----------



## smoti17

Thanks again Hook, and good luck ! I have asked BBC America what their position is on the CCI btye setting, and once I have their answer I'll try calling the TWCNEO Technical Operations Manager who's been calling me to make sure my CableCard install went okay.


----------



## mgd6912

I have 2 TWC boxes and about 3 other TV's i just plug into the cable outlet from the wall and get "basic" cable for them. Now my question is, in Feb09, when all the analog signals go away, will I need to get one of those converter boxes for the 3 tv's i just plug into the cable outlets or not?? Thanks!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/13486446
> 
> 
> I have 2 TWC boxes and about 3 other TV's i just plug into the cable outlet from the wall and get "basic" cable for them. Now my question is, in Feb09, when all the analog signals go away, will I need to get one of those converter boxes for the 3 tv's i just plug into the cable outlets or not?? Thanks!



If your TVs are analog only... if they do not have built in digital tuners, then yes, you will need an external digital tuner to receive signals. Although, I have heard RUMOR that TW will be taking the digital signals and converting them to analog for the customers that still want that service... time will tell.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13485452
> 
> 
> Thanks again Hook, and good luck ! I have asked BBC America what their position is on the CCI btye setting, and once I have their answer I'll try calling the TWCNEO Technical Operations Manager who's been calling me to make sure my CableCard install went okay.



I got a call back at 8:30 this morning from my contact at headend. They are looking into what happened. I called back and asked her to look into the HD channels like ESPN, TNT, and TBS. Since they are 0x00 on the analog side, how come not on the HD side? I also mention that HDnet is another channel that has said they have not told cable companies to restrict their broadcast.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13486547
> 
> 
> If your TVs are analog only... if they do not have built in digital tuners, then yes, you will need an external digital tuner to receive signals. Although, I have heard RUMOR that TW will be taking the digital signals and converting them to analog for the customers that still want that service... time will tell.



Not a rumor. The signal comes in on a trunk line in analog form to TW. If you have a digital box it will upgrade it to digital (local channels), which is why the signal doesn't look as good as say something that is in the over 100 channels.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/13486446
> 
> 
> I have 2 TWC boxes and about 3 other TV's i just plug into the cable outlet from the wall and get "basic" cable for them. Now my question is, in Feb09, when all the analog signals go away, will I need to get one of those converter boxes for the 3 tv's i just plug into the cable outlets or not?? Thanks!



You *WILL NOT* need a converter box for those other 3 TVs until sometime after 2012 unless TWC goes to an all digital lineup before that time (which is not currently rumored to be happening).

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ntil-2012.html


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13483481
> 
> 
> We have a non-DVR box that has been "Navigator'd", it's okay I guess. Our 8300HD is still Passport. Why is TW really giving everyone Navigator anyway?



Because it's their new standard?










THAT was my confusion, hookbill. I didn't know if Navigator was a new DVR interface, or if it was a new interface for all the digital boxes. Sounds like the latter.


And then my earlier message comes into play...on the DVR side (like on my SA8000HD), a Navigator update would presumably clobber my existing recordings on the SARA interface.


That's why TWC is giving instructions on the new lineup site on saving stuff off. I do actually have some stuff on the 8000 going back a ways, but I haven't watched it in a couple of years, so if I don't get into gear, my loss. I don't think there's anything VITAL that I don't have sitting on the TiVo (like "Invasion: Iowa" perhaps?







) which isn't in HD anyway.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I'm confused as to what HD box Time Warner will give me on my next install next week. I'm supposed to get a HD box and I told them that I do not want to pay for DVR features and they agreed that I wouldn't have to.


It's no big deal either way because I'll be using my HTPC and my TiVoHD. However, I would like to know that I am getting the latest box for OnDemand if I choose to use that feature. I'm not sure I like the way OnDemand is setup from the SA 8000 HD box I have right now. Plus, I would like to have the capabiltiy to use firewire.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13492813
> 
> 
> I'm confused as to what HD box Time Warner will give me on my next install next week. I'm supposed to get a HD box and I told them that I do not want to pay for DVR features and they agreed that I wouldn't have to.
> 
> 
> It's no big deal either way because I'll be using my HTPC and my TiVoHD. However, I would like to know that I am getting the latest box for OnDemand if I choose to use that feature. I'm not sure I like the way OnDemand is setup from the SA 8000 HD box I have right now. Plus, I would like to have the capabiltiy to use firewire.



What box you get might depend on what TWC area you live in. I'm a former Adelphist in metropolitan Cleveland, and TWC told me that there is a three-month waiting list for non-DVR boxes that do HD conversion. So they have agreed (after I sent two email letters to Steve Fry--thank you, hookbill) to let me kep the SA8300HD box that I have had for a long time and not make me pay the additional $7/month for the DVR feature that isn't turned on.

So, what area do you live in? And please tell us what box you get when it arrives...


----------



## rick490

We might just as well get used to the fact that we will all be navigatored very soon. My friend in Green received the attached letter this week, along with a brochure on Navigator.

 

Navigator.pdf 91.0048828125k . file


----------



## nosey313

Looking through the FAQs on the mytwcnavigator site, I se this...



> Quote:
> *How can I access the amount of space left on my DVR?*
> 
> This version of the TWC Navigator does not provide an alert that shows the amount space left on your DVR. The Recording Log will let you know that the show failed to record due to lack of available space. You will then need to delete some shows to make space for new recordings.



That's just retarded. You won't know until AFTER you miss recording a program. Prettier interface does not equal intelligent design.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13492813
> 
> 
> I'm confused as to what HD box Time Warner will give me on my next install next week. I'm supposed to get a HD box and I told them that I do not want to pay for DVR features and they agreed that I wouldn't have to.
> 
> 
> It's no big deal either way because I'll be using my HTPC and my TiVoHD. However, I would like to know that I am getting the latest box for OnDemand if I choose to use that feature. I'm not sure I like the way OnDemand is setup from the SA 8000 HD box I have right now. Plus, I would like to have the capabiltiy to use firewire.



Personally, I gave up on getting firewire to work with my Windows XP based PC, but when I was researching it, the non-DVR SA boxes seemed to have better firewire support. i.e., the SA4250HD would be the box to get for firewire, not the 8300HD and certainly not the 8000HD.


Edit: Just wondering what all this Navigator-ing will do to firewire support .... Totally different firmware, right? I remember it took forever for SA to get firewire working with SARA. Have no idea if firewire works with this "Navigator"


----------



## paule123

edjrwinnt - this info may be helpful to you (my emphasis added in bold), and hookbill - note the copy protection info at the bottom ...


From:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/easte.../firewire.html 


What is IEEE 1394 or Firewire?

IEEE 1394 is a high-speed digital video/audio and data interface technology adopted by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE). Also known in the computer industry as FireWire, IEEE 1394 supports the secure output of high definition content over the 1394 interface to downstream devices, such as TVs, DVRs, D-VHS recorders and other devices that have a compatible 1394 input.


What is Time Warner Cable required to do to support 1394?

Effective April 1, 2004, Time Warner Cable can replace any leased high definition box, which does not include a functional 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional 1394 interface. *This new box is a special version of the Scientific Atlanta 3250 HD box and must be requested by name.
*


What type of HD set top boxes will support 1394?
*The only HD set top box with a functional 1394 port is the SA 3250 HD (Version 2.1). This is a special HD box and should not be confused with the currently deployed SA 3250 HD.*


What else should you be aware of regarding 1394?

There are some inherent technical limitations on the functionality supported by the 1394 interface.


* Interactive Program Guide - As a result, using 1394 to connect to display or recording devices will not be able to access the Programming Guide and On Demand services.

* Analog Channels - Further, because the 1394 interface is solely a digital link, and the HD box does not include a digital encoder, *customers using 1394 will not have access to any channels on the analog tier.*


Emergency Alert Signals (EAS) - Lastly, HDTV television sets will not display formatted EAS messages over the 1394 interface. In addition, there are a number of HDTV television sets that do not support the capability of switching to analog inputs to display the EAS message. Such TV sets are not compliant with a specification recommended for their construction, and, as such, will not receive any content over the 1394 interface. Even sets that are constructed in accordance with the recommended specifications will need, in addition to the 1394 connection, separate component or composite analog connections.


I'm interested in the SA3250 with 1394 functionality. What do I need to do?

A5. All customer requests will be handled by calling 1-866-4-TWC-NOW (1-866-489-2669). Also, all installations will require a Time Warner Cable representative to install the box.

Technicians will not connect a 1394-enabled set top box to anything other than a television or display/monitor.


Other Useful Information

1394 is a digital interface, and as such, *Time Warner Cable is obligated to protect content on that output from certain types of copying. We have used the industry standard Digital Transmission Content Protection (DTCP) protocol to protect content passed over the 1394 interface from unauthorized copying.*


DTCP protects the 1394 output, but allows certain copies of content to be made. *You may make unlimited copies of free over-the-air broadcast content, one copy only of content shown on Basic and Standard service (including premium services and Premiums On Demand), and no copies of On Demand or Pay-Per-View content.* This may change in the future.


----------



## paule123

Also found this over in the TWC Navigator thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13408311 



> Quote:
> My HD 3250 box stopped working on 3/13/2008 after TWC ran a major update on their software/firmware. Here's what I FINALLY got from them:
> 
> 
> At this present time, Time Warner Cable does not provide support for the USB, SATA, Firewire, HDMI, or DVI ports. Some of the ports on the digital boxes are active and can be used. Time Warner Cable can not help with the setup or installation of the following ports USB, SATA, Firewire, HDMI, or DVI ports; currently Time Warner Cable only support the setup and installation of composite, component, S-Video, and coax cable. If you have any questions feel free to contact your local Time Warner Office between hours of 8am to 8pm Monday through Saturday for Sales and Billing and Technical Support is open 24 hours a day / 7 days a week.
> 
> 
> Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable.


----------



## paule123

''At this time, AT&T U-verse is not offering SportsTime Ohio in HD,'' said Bob Beasley, an AT&T spokesman. ''However, we are always looking for opportunities to expand our already long list of HD. . . . Meanwhile, we will continue to offer STO as part of our standard-definition lineup.''

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/17077556.html


----------



## k2rj

_Before the

Federal Communications Commission

Washington, D.C. 20554

In the Matter of

Carriage of Digital Television Broadcast

Signals: Amendment to Part 76 of the

Commission's Rules;

Implementation of the Satellite Home

Viewer Improvement Act of 1999:

Local Broadcast Signal Carriage Issues and

Retransmission Consent Issues

CS Docket No. 00-96

CSR-5978-M

SECOND REPORT AND ORDER, MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER,

AND SECOND FURTHER NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING

Adopted: March 19, 2008 Released: March 27, 2008_

*To be phased in over 4 years...*


Read the entire R&O here:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...CC-08-86A1.pdf


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13495583
> 
> 
> ''At this time, AT&T U-verse is not offering SportsTime Ohio in HD,'' said Bob Beasley, an AT&T spokesman. ''However, we are always looking for opportunities to expand our already long list of HD. . . . Meanwhile, we will continue to offer STO as part of our standard-definition lineup.''
> 
> http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/17077556.html



Yuk! Who watches SD these days?!


With STO-HD and the Indians going 100% HD this year, I am especially excited for the upcoming '08 season.


Go Tribe!


----------



## edjrwinnt

Thanks for the firewire info paule123. At this point I'll take what I can get and firewire isn't mandartory, especially since I will not have premium movie channels. I forgot that they told me that I would be getting a PVR box too since there is back log on the non-HD PVR boxes, and customer service also told me that I won't be charged for the PVR service. I just want my TiVoHD to work. I originally didn't even want a Time Warner STB, but they included it with the package that they gave me at a decent price.


Now I just have to hope the install goes smoothly on Monday. If it doesn't I'm tempted to just tell the cable guy to take all his equipment back and put me back at Life Line Basic. I guess I could live without the CAV's and Indians in HD and save the $28 a month at that point.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13464990
> 
> 
> When the new lineup hit last week, they added the new HD channels (Food, A&E, Cinemax, etc.) For some goofy reason, I can't get any of the new ones on my Tivo.



I have the same problem in Uniontown (Canton area) as well. TiVo S3, 2 S-Cards. I also cannot tune the digital version of Headline news. After a few attempts at Customer Service, where they told me to wait it out the first time and basically reseat my cards the second time (what a joke) a sent our good buddy Steve Fry an email this morning. I am convinced this is a headend problem. mnowlin, please update us when your tech leaves today.


Also-- hookbill-- any update on the CCI byte changes? I am affected with that problem here too.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13495456
> 
> 
> ......Emergency Alert Signals (EAS) - Lastly, HDTV television sets will not display formatted EAS messages over the 1394 interface. In addition, there are a number of HDTV television sets that do not support the capability of switching to analog inputs to display the EAS message. Such TV sets are not compliant with a specification recommended for their construction, and, as such, will not receive any content over the 1394 interface. Even sets that are constructed in accordance with the recommended specifications will need, in addition to the 1394 connection, separate component or composite analog connections.
> 
> .........



This alone would be worth 1394 Firewire!










If it blocked the stupid weather and school closing alerts as well I'd be in heaven!


----------



## mgd6912

ESPN News is suppose to be in HD this Sunday at 8am. My question is this: Will TWC have a new "HD" channel number or will the old channel just be in HD? I wonder if TWC will even carry ESPN NEWS in HD.


----------



## jtscherne

At this point, I highly doubt that they'll add it right away. Not even Directv or Dish have announced that they'll have it at launch.


----------



## lefkas

Does anyone know whether TWC has added WBNX-HD on QAM in the North Canton area ? I have done several re-scans over the last several weeks and still do not see it.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13498895
> 
> 
> Does anyone know whether TWC has added WBNX-HD on QAM in the North Canton area ? I have done several re-scans over the last several weeks and still do not see it.



I have been strugling with that notion myself. I had it here last week, but for only ONE DAY. A couple people in Louisville and Canton reported having it, so I did a scan and found it, but then it was gone. I think they must be still working on it. I live over where Canton, N.Canton, and Louisville come together. You could call them and ask, but I'm sure you'll just get some "canned" response. I guess we just need to be more patient and wait and see...


----------



## MediaObsessions

1st--WBNX is in QAM at my house near N. Canton on 78.3.


2nd--I received a call from a TWC area manager and they fixed a "coding issue" at the headend. I now have all the new HD channels. The email to Steve Fry worked. And very quickly. BIG thanks to hookbill.


----------



## nickdawg

Question for anyone with a Dolby 5.1 Surround receiver(connected w/ Digital Audio or Optical)


I've noticed on WBNX-DT there is no sound coming out of the rears. The station says it is Dolby 3/2.1, yet sound only comes out of the center, L and R. It's not my equipmentm since the speakers work on other channels. It must be an affiliate or network issue. Maybe Time Warner? Anyone get WBNX OTA??


----------



## jtscherne

I get it OTA. It's showing 5.1 on my receiver, but it seems that the sound coming through is basically mono (center speaker only).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13501144
> 
> 
> Question for anyone with a Dolby 5.1 Surround receiver(connected w/ Digital Audio or Optical)
> 
> 
> I've noticed on WBNX-DT there is no sound coming out of the rears. The station says it is Dolby 3/2.1, yet sound only comes out of the center, L and R. It's not my equipmentm since the speakers work on other channels. It must be an affiliate or network issue. Maybe Time Warner? Anyone get WBNX OTA??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13502180
> 
> 
> I get it OTA. It's showing 5.1 on my receiver, but it seems that the sound coming through is basically mono (center speaker only).



Yes, if it isn't in HD, like "Celebrity Apprentice" it sounds like 3.1. Now HD shows are OK but sometimes I have to crank the back speakers up a bit.


Now I record Survivor on WOIO HD but that has real dobly 5.1, even though not in HD. Cops on FOX 8 is another one that shows 5.1 but truly is only 3.1


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13496652
> 
> 
> I have the same problem in Uniontown (Canton area) as well. TiVo S3, 2 S-Cards. I also cannot tune the digital version of Headline news. After a few attempts at Customer Service, where they told me to wait it out the first time and basically reseat my cards the second time (what a joke) a sent our good buddy Steve Fry an email this morning. I am convinced this is a headend problem. mnowlin, please update us when your tech leaves today.



Before leaving for work this morning, I checked again, and the channels still weren't coming in. When the tech (an older guy who gave me the impression he had been with TWC for many years) arrived, I described the problem, punched up FoodHD to show him - it came in perfectly, as did the other "missing" channels. My best guess (he agreed) was that they did something to the S-cards before sending him out. The only quirk I'm still seeing is Starz HD; it always tunes in on the 6xx channel, but is intermittent on the 4xx channel. Unfortunately, he had already left when I noticed this. I'll give it a day or two and see if the problem goes away.


I pulled up the signal strength meter on the Tivo and went through ALL of the channels - the lowest I saw was around 95%. SNR was right where it should be. He hooked up his signal meter and tested - said that the incoming signal looked pretty close to perfect.


A few comments he made worth mentioning:


1. The Tivo seemed to lock on tuned HD channels notably faster than the TWC boxes - the picture appeared about a second (or slightly more) faster than it does on the TWC equipment.


2. When he runs into an installed SA8300HDC, he basically tries to make it goof up. If it even burps a little, he pulls the thing and replaces it with (insert forgotten model number here). Seems the more experienced techs have figured out how bad the 8300HDC is, even if TWC won't publicly admit it.


3. He flipped around the HD channels for about 15 minutes and commented about how good the picture looked. "I haven't seen any pixelation at all." (He sounded surprised.)


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13499273
> 
> 
> 2nd--I received a call from a TWC area manager and they fixed a "coding issue" at the headend. I now have all the new HD channels. The email to Steve Fry worked. And very quickly. BIG thanks to hookbill.



Interesting... Additional evidence that the CSR who claimed my problem was low signal strength didn't have a clue, and I was right when I told him it was likely a CC issue.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13503260
> 
> 
> Interesting... Additional evidence that the CSR who claimed my problem was low signal strength didn't have a clue, and I was right when I told him it was likely a CC issue.



Once again, it's [email protected] .










And I think I already said it was something with headend not giving the correct signal.


----------



## hookbill

Those of you in the Cleveland suburb or Cleveland area who have not had their lineup changes I've got a little info for you. If they do the changes and your lineup has not changed, which hopefully won't happen, you can fix it by doing guided set up, zip 44202 and select Franklin.


TiVo actually gave me a call back and Tribune Media is making that recommendation if something happens before they change it. Right now they still are showing only the old list of channels.


As far as the digital copy issue, I haven't heard back from my contact at TiVo and I don't want to be too pushy so I want to give her some time. I do know however that TiVo says if they decide to keep that copy code on there (0x02) there is nothing that TiVo can help us with on it, which IMHO really sucks.


Question: If you can get ESPN,TBS, and TNT copy free on analog then why the hell not for HD?


And for those of you reading who don't have TiVo's it's not that we can't record the shows, we just can't move them from one TiVo to another or to our computers.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Can anyone tell me how to have the Time Warner SA 8000 HD receiver output through the S-Video port instead of the component video port? Right now I have it on a old Sony non-HD TV and I'm trying to set this up without having to move it back to the HDTV and going into the setup screens.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13511092
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to have the Time Warner SA 8000 HD receiver output through the S-Video port instead of the component video port? Right now I have it on a old Sony non-HD TV and I'm trying to set this up without having to move it back to the HDTV and going into the setup screens.



I believe you'll have to set the box into SD mode to get the S-video port to light up, so you'll have to go through the box's setup screen.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13511092
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me how to have the Time Warner SA 8000 HD receiver output through the S-Video port instead of the component video port? Right now I have it on a old Sony non-HD TV and I'm trying to set this up without having to move it back to the HDTV and going into the setup screens.



I have a Slingbox hooked up into our SA8300HD via the S-Video port. It was already activated for me, I didn't have to do anything. One thing I found interesting is that the box down-converts the HD channels so an SDTV can at least watch them through the S-Video port. I can watch HD through the S-Video and the Component at the same time.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13513303
> 
> 
> I have a Slingbox hooked up into our SA8300HD via the S-Video port. It was already activated for me, I didn't have to do anything. One thing I found interesting is that the box down-converts the HD channels so an SDTV can at least watch them through the S-Video port. I can watch HD through the S-Video and the Component at the same time.



I think that was one of the improvements the SA8300HD offered over the SA8000HD - simultaneous output over composite/svideo with component active.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13513334
> 
> 
> I think that was one of the improvements the SA8300HD offered over the SA8000HD - simultaneous output over composite/svideo with component active.



Whoops, I gotta read before I respond. My SA 8300 would not work on component when the HDMI was hooked up. However I don't know if the DVR or my TV was making that decision. I think it would be the SA 8300.


I know I could hook up S Video to it with HDMI. Just not component.


----------



## hookbill

I wasn't going to get Steve Fry involved in this digital channel blocking thing but I gotta CSR live on line talking to me about an internet issue I was having.

I'll show you parts of the letter, but I can't show the whole thing:

*Dear Mr. Fry:


Well, after having excellent customer service from your Concord office today I tried to use the email to get some information about (censored). Here is a copy of the transcript.


PearlS: Philip, you have contacted us with regards to (censored) issue. As my expertise are with RoadRunner Internet Services, I have helped you to resolve the issue in a way by referring fix it. 877-772-2253.

PearlS: Philip, was this information helpful? Are there any other technical issues with which we may assist you?

Phil: You mean I have to call customer service? No offense but I'd rather not because they arn't that well trained on internet.

Phil: At least that's my experience.

PearlS: Please be assured they will transfer to the concern department.

Phil: OK. I will give it a try. What should I ask them?

PearlS: You just need to inform them that you want to (censored)

Phil: OK. I know you can do it by(censored). That's not what they will tell me, is it?

PearlS: Yes, exactly.

PearlS: Is there any thing else I can assist you?

Phil: No, I understand. But thanks anyway. Why didn't you just tell me that?

PearlS: For further assistance please logon to our website help.rr.com and check for online FAQs.


I would appreciate if you could provide us with your valuable feedback on the support experience after the end of this chat session. It will help us to serve you better. Please submit your comments at http://surveys.rr.com/chat/ (and believe me, she got some feedback!)









PearlS: Thank you for visiting Time Warner Cable Road Runner Internet Technical Chat.Have a good day!

PearlS: Analyst has closed chat and left the room


Notice the way she just cut me off and left the room? And why didn't' she just tell me that. Why make me call customer service? I was trying to save time and hoping to talk to someone knowledgeable who might know how I could do it without going through a complicated process.

I also want to know why your company has made your digital channels more restrictive. It use to be that we could record anything on our TiVo's and transfer them because the code was 0X00 or 0x01. Now every digital channel is 0x02. With that code we can record but we cannot move the show from one room to another.


I understand why the premium channels and pay perview are that way. That makes sense. But if you can record without restrictions ESPN, ESPN2, TBS, and TNT on analog why are the HD channels restricted? And do you really think that channels like Hallmark or The Military channel need these restrictions? This is unfair and these codes should be changed back immediately. Please bring this to the proper persons attention. As far as the customer service person I had on line, perhaps her supervisor should talk to her.


Sincereley,*


From what I read this is simply an error that TW has made in this area. And I know the weekend is here and that slows things down but I wa so P.O.'d about the CSR I threw that in there too. She knew the answer, but she wanted to put me through the trouble of calling customer service.


I hope they fix the digital copy issue soon.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13513782
> 
> 
> I hope they fix the digital copy issue soon.



It looks like the "Copy Once" requirement on digital programming is per the FCC's Plug & Play law. Go to Page 2 of the article, third paragraph down.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13514400
> 
> 
> It looks like the "Copy Once" requirement on digital programming is per the FCC's Plug & Play law. Go to Page 2 of the article, third paragraph down.



Interesting, but not logical. According to that you are correct and perhaps digital channels can only be copied once. But it also said: According to the scheme, pay-per-view and video-on-demand may not be copied; *basic and extended-basic service as well as subscription video-on-demand can be copied once;* and broadcast TV can be copied with no limits.


Now when they say "basic" are they including analog? Because according to that article that would include anything that went beyond channel 25. ESPN, ESPN2, TBS, and TNT which all broadcast in HD are considered "expanded basic." Unless you're going to get real picky and say there is a difference in extended vs. expanded, sounds to me like all those channels should be copy protected too.


And my point is they arn't. So if you can show it on analog, why not HD Digital without restrictions?


I'm not going to argue the article, however I still have my doubts that TW did this on purpose.


----------



## JoeySR

How is this going? Does anyone know if they are done with the legacy

systems yet and when they will start on the Adelphia areas?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/13515481
> 
> 
> How is this going? Does anyone know if they are done with the legacy
> 
> systems yet and when they will start on the Adelphia areas?



I don't know about the the "legacy" area, that is suppose to be done first but since I do see that new schedules for Macedonia and Franklin are available plus other non legacy areas I would guess they would be next. I know Inundated is ex Adelphia and he can see the two schedules but they haven't made changes yet.


So as an educated guess I would say that if you live in one of the Cleveland Suburbs areas they would be last.


----------



## nosey313

hook,


When is the Macedonia (ex-Adelphia) supposed to get the new line up? Where do you see the schedule?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13516204
> 
> 
> hook,
> 
> 
> When is the Macedonia (ex-Adelphia) supposed to get the new line up? Where do you see the schedule?



Are you asking me where Macedonia is?










I can't tell you what area is included in that but I use to be in there and they moved me to Concord. But I would think that it would possible include Twinsburg, parts or all of Aurora (probably parts), maybe Kent and whatever is just east and North of there. I can see the schedule when I go to www.zap2it.com and go to "change your location". and type in 44202. You will see the "rebuild" guide along side of the regular guide.


----------



## JoeySR

I went to Zap It and put in my Zip code 44021 and they have the new lineup. So maybe we are soon or Zap it is just ahead of TWC...


My Son lives in Streetsboro and he has had the new lineup for a few weeks he said....


----------



## edjrwinnt

How many cable guys does it take to get my TiVoHD to work? Number 3 will try this Saturday. The one today had no luck. They were out of M-Stream cards so he brought 2 single stream cards. Today's cable guy said he's never been able to get a single stream card to work with a TiVoHD; only multi-stream cards. He went on to tell me that he's even called TiVo tech. support before, and TiVo admitted that they have a lot of problems with TiVo single stream cards with the TiVoHD's. My only hope now is that they get m-cards in by this Saturday and I get an experience tech which was requested. He did leave me one cable card to see if it would ever initialize.


He did bring me a 8300 SA box and the firewire port does work. I haven't tried to record anything yet though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13521327
> 
> 
> How many cable guys does it take to get my TiVoHD to work? Number 3 will try this Saturday. The one today had no luck. They were out of M-Stream cards so he brought 2 single stream cards. Today's cable guy said he's never been able to get a single stream card to work with a TiVoHD; only multi-stream cards. He went on to tell me that he's even called TiVo tech. support before, and TiVo admitted that they have a lot of problems with TiVo single stream cards with the TiVoHD's. My only hope now is that they get m-cards in by this Saturday and I get an experience tech which was requested. He did leave me one cable card to see if it would ever initialize.
> 
> 
> He did bring me a 8300 SA box and the firewire port does work. I haven't tried to record anything yet though.



What a lot of horse manure! Did you help them with the navigation?


Sorry you're having such a bad time. It took the two guys that came out to my house 1:15 minutes and it would have taken longer had I not noticed they misread a number and they really don't know how to navigate the machine. But still it does work and the guy telling you that is not telling you the truth. Two cards work fine.


I don't think these guys understand that the cards have to be paired. I had to explain that to my guys as well.


----------



## paule123

On the 11:00 pm news why is WKYC showing highlights of the Indians game today in 4:3 SD, and what looks like a lousy composite upconvert? They broadcast the game in HD on their own bloody channel earlier today for chrissakes ....










The STO Replay on D* channel 657 (SD) looks pretty bad. Really soft and overcompressed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13525135
> 
> 
> On the 11:00 pm news why is WKYC showing highlights of the Indians game today in 4:3 SD, and what looks like a lousy composite upconvert? They broadcast the game in HD on their own bloody channel earlier today for chrissakes ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The STO Replay on D* channel 657 (SD) looks pretty bad. Really soft and overcompressed.



Good question. Fox news does the same thing on games broadcast in HD on Fox. Seems stupid to me but that's always the way they've done it.


----------



## hookbill

I've noticed over the last couple of weeks that there have been several times that FOX News in the morning has been freezing up mid broadcast. It happened 3 times this morning, enough to make me concerned that maybe it wasn't them but my TiVo, however when I went upstairs and checked my other TiVo it was frozen too so I don't believe it's an issue with the TiVo.


These freezes last about 30 seconds or less to a minute. Anyone else notice?


Also I've noticed it occasionally in the evenings.


----------



## Inundated

I still don't HAVE the new lineup, but it shows up on Zap2It (as someone mentioned again) under TWC "Digital Rebuild" Cleveland Heights. It's the same option that used to show the current lineup. The non-"Digital Rebuild" lineup is the current one.


On my cable boxes, it's still the old one.


As far as the highlights of the HD Indians game and other highlights...no newsroom in the market can edit HD video in the newsroom as far as I know. The 16:9 stuff you see recorded on the news is SD.


----------



## Ben Music

Yes Hook,


I watch Fox 8 6;00 news and I see the freeze up all the time. At first I thought it was the hard drive in my Moto box (old Comcast) starting to go bad, but I'm now sure it's either Fox 8 or the head end.


I also am having trouble with my S-3 Tivo. This is my second refurb replacement in the last 4 months that has gone bad. When I try to do a complete (pull the plug) reset, all the lights on the front come on, but that's as far as it goes. It stays frozen in that mode. Any ideas?


Still no channel changes on my Elyria system. I wonder if my old Moto box will be able to accept the coming changes. I've hung to this box because it never gives me any problems. I don't want any SA problem boxes.


Ben Music


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13526603
> 
> 
> I've noticed over the last couple of weeks that there have been several times that FOX News in the morning has been freezing up mid broadcast. It happened 3 times this morning, enough to make me concerned that maybe it wasn't them but my TiVo, however when I went upstairs and checked my other TiVo it was frozen too so I don't believe it's an issue with the TiVo.
> 
> 
> These freezes last about 30 seconds or less to a minute. Anyone else notice?
> 
> 
> Also I've noticed it occasionally in the evenings.



Hook, I've noticed the same thing. It seemed to be mostly on the news late last week. I'd switch to the SD channel and it would be fine. I also noticed it near the end of the Indians game yesterday on 703. It must have lasted nearly a minute.


----------



## Too_Many_options

I have noticed a freeze on a few channels including 3 and 8

I have Time Warner (south west suburbs) using QAM ( I do not have Tivo) .....

I was beginning to think it was my TV

Thanks Hookbill I feel better.


----------



## Too_Many_options

I was not clear...

Please note the freeze only happens on HD ( Example 3.1 & 8.1)


----------



## Trip in VA

Is there someone here with a computer-based tuner that handles TSReader and receives their signals over the air who would be willing to give me a hand with something? If so, please send me a PM.


Thanks in advance. =)


- Trip


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13526603
> 
> 
> I've noticed over the last couple of weeks that there have been several times that FOX News in the morning has been freezing up mid broadcast. It happened 3 times this morning, enough to make me concerned that maybe it wasn't them but my TiVo, however when I went upstairs and checked my other TiVo it was frozen too so I don't believe it's an issue with the TiVo.
> 
> 
> These freezes last about 30 seconds or less to a minute. Anyone else notice?
> 
> 
> Also I've noticed it occasionally in the evenings.



Two days ago, I tried to rewind FOX 8 News at 10 on my E* 921 (This was a digital OTA feed). I thought my hard drive was crashing







the video would stop and go at various speeds and almost no audio except for a few blips. NOTE: There was no problem with the live WJW feed, only DVR delayed segments, including a very short 2 second rewind. I could only watch WJW live that evening.


Seeing how TiVO users have similar problems with FOX 8 News leads me to believe the problem is with FOX 8's local origination, and not the DVR or cable system (seeing how my problem was OTA). BTW I did check my 921's rewind function on WEWS's 11 PM news and it worked fine - another reason to suspect WJW's OTA feed as the culprit.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13526603
> 
> 
> I've noticed over the last couple of weeks that there have been several times that FOX News in the morning has been freezing up mid broadcast. It happened 3 times this morning, enough to make me concerned that maybe it wasn't them but my TiVo, however when I went upstairs and checked my other TiVo it was frozen too so I don't believe it's an issue with the TiVo.
> 
> 
> These freezes last about 30 seconds or less to a minute. Anyone else notice?
> 
> 
> Also I've noticed it occasionally in the evenings.



It's Tivo, he's trying to save you from the awful FOX news and that awful Stefani Schaffer!


----------



## HD MM

D* added 3 new HD channels today including: Disney Channel HD, Toon Disney and ESPNews HD. The HD channel list by provider (see sig) is updated to reflect these additions.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/13458938
> 
> 
> Unless something happened very recently,,Dish doesnt offer HD locals in Cleveland..if by antenna, 19 has always been one of the weaker signals anyway



I was thinking 19 (or 10.1) was strong to the south & west, my bad it's about the weakest up here too.


19 analog is my strongest signal followed by 8, I may lose 10.1 on my upstairs setup with an attic antenna.... of course even with an outdoor antenna 10 is touchy at times.


5 & 61 are my strongest Digitals.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13451443
> 
> 
> Easy way to tell if the installer/tech is a TW employee...
> 
> Look at the vehicle he is driving. If it says Time Warner on the side, then he works for them, if not, then he is a sub.



Believe they are using sub-contractors here, all the trucks seem to be registered in Michigan.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13486908
> 
> 
> You *WILL NOT* need a converter box for those other 3 TVs until sometime after 2012 unless TWC goes to an all digital lineup before that time (which is not currently rumored to be happening).
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...ntil-2012.html




They have been scrolling propoganda across the screens on the networks saying "your TV will no longer work unless you have cable or dish after Feb '09", I wonder who is behind that?










... & we all know that is not true.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13537140
> 
> 
> They have been scrolling propoganda across the screens on the networks saying "your TV will no longer work unless you have cable or dish after Feb '09", I wonder who is behind that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... & we all know that is not true.



I'm curious, who are "they"? All broadcasters are required to run PSA's and crawls that _should_ say TV's on cable & satellite won't lose reception. The FCC placed very strict logging and reporting requirements on the crawls and PSA's.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13495623
> 
> 
> Yuk! Who watches SD these days?!



... now one thing at a time!! I finally splurged on a nice (but used) color set in '95!










A few of us still waiting for the prices on HD's to bottom out







(Why trash a perfectly good TV too?)


Now I'm waiting for them to decide if they are going to include analog tuners in the STB's.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13537220
> 
> 
> I'm curious, who are "they"? All broadcasters are required to run PSA's and crawls that _should_ say TV's on cable & satellite won't lose reception. The FCC placed very strict logging and reporting requirements on the crawls and PSA's.



Dunno, it scrolled across Oprah & ET, gives an 800 number to call, have yet to take it down, imagine it's one of the dish companies.


So it's a PSA from the broadcasters, that is required?


Our city sent out a newsletter saying our Antennas will no longer work after Feb '09, imagine TW was behind that article.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13526603
> 
> 
> I've noticed over the last couple of weeks that there have been several times that FOX News in the morning has been freezing up mid broadcast. It happened 3 times this morning, enough to make me concerned that maybe it wasn't them but my TiVo, however when I went upstairs and checked my other TiVo it was frozen too so I don't believe it's an issue with the TiVo.
> 
> 
> These freezes last about 30 seconds or less to a minute. Anyone else notice?
> 
> 
> Also I've noticed it occasionally in the evenings.




Haven't had that happen here, though with the wind the other day 28.1 (43.1) has been freezing.... now why would the wind freeze the signal?? I have had problems on analog in windy conditions even with an attic antenna unaffected by wind & no large objects blowing within my path.


----------



## bgiese

I wasn't too impressed withthe PQ on WKYC on Monday.

The picture seemed soft at times; especially when they went to replay.


I was hoping maybe they had made some upgrades since last season.

I'm expecting STO to look better.


I was watching the HD channel on DirecTv.


What were your impressions?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/13537548
> 
> 
> I wasn't too impressed withthe PQ on WKYC on Monday.
> 
> The picture seemed soft at times; especially when they went to replay.
> 
> 
> I was hoping maybe they had made some upgrades since last season.
> 
> I'm expecting STO to look better.
> 
> 
> I was watching the HD channel on DirecTv.
> 
> 
> What were your impressions?



I cannot answer that question since I was at Progressive Field for Opening Day, however I can attest that the Indians games on STO-HD on D* may be the finest examples of HD that is offered based on last years experience.


Channels such as WKYC-NBC and WOIO-CBS have a funny compression thing going on these days from the result of carrying a subchannel to show an alternate weather channel. (Ex. 3.2 and 19.2.) Following the addition of these subchannels, I've noticed a decrease in picture quality on the main channels. This may be a reason why WKYC's broadcast won't look as sharp as STO's will tonight.......


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13537904
> 
> 
> I cannot answer that question since I was at Progressive Field for Opening Day, however I can attest that the Indians games on STO-HD on D* may be the finest examples of HD that is offered based on last years experience.
> 
> 
> Channels such as WKYC-NBC and WOIO-CBS have a funny compression thing going on these days from the result of carrying a subchannel to show an alternate weather channel. (Ex. 3.2 and 19.2.) Following the addition of these subchannels, I've noticed a decrease in picture quality on the main channels. This may be a reason why WKYC's broadcast won't look as sharp as STO's will tonight.......




Yeah...some of us have to work.










I don't know, I pretty much think the HD quality on both STO and WKYC are the same. I think some of you guys are a bit more of a videophile then I am.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13537355
> 
> 
> Haven't had that happen here, though with the wind the other day 28.1 (43.1) has been freezing.... now why would the wind freeze the signal?? I have had problems on analog in windy conditions even with an attic antenna unaffected by wind & no large objects blowing within my path.



The point I was making wasn't in general, just FOX 8 News live. Everything else seems to be fine. And there were no problems this morning that I noticed.


I record the evening news since I get home late and it looked fine - well, I should say sounded fine as I really don't watch it that much I kind of listen and if it's something I think is important, like Bush saying that if the Oil Company Tax Reduction elimination bill reaches his desk he won't sign it, I'll back it up.


But then again we don't discuss political things here now do we?


----------



## lonewolf6465

Hello all:


I am looking for some information on Cox Communications HD lineup. They just added NatGeo/CNN/Travel which was nice but I am wondering if anyone has a schedule (of sorts) on how these stations get added. I know ESPN News is available along with SciFi (two channels I wish we had already). I attempted the forum search but didn't get any help and I really don't want to read all the pages in this thread.


Thanks


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lonewolf6465* /forum/post/13539133
> 
> 
> Hello all:
> 
> 
> I am looking for some information on Cox Communications HD lineup. They just added NatGeo/CNN/Travel which was nice but I am wondering if anyone has a schedule (of sorts) on how these stations get added. I know ESPN News is available along with SciFi (two channels I wish we had already). I attempted the forum search but didn't get any help and I really don't want to read all the pages in this thread.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Try Google next time. It's one of the largest search engines around I hear







.......

http://www.cox.com/cleveland/cable/hdtv/programming.asp


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13537231
> 
> 
> Now I'm waiting for them to decide if they are going to include analog tuners in the STB's.



If by "STB" you mean coupon-eligible converter boxes, there are a handful of them that have "analog passthrough" to allow tuning low power analog TV stations after the 2009 cutoff date.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/13537140
> 
> 
> They have been scrolling propaganda across the screens on the networks saying "your TV will no longer work unless you have cable or dish after Feb '09", I wonder who is behind that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... & we all know that is not true.



What's not true? The scrolls are coming from the local broadcasters, their analog OTA signals are going away in Feb 2009. Just because you happen to be watching a local station via analog cable or satellite (which is not taking the SD feeds away on that date), they still have to run the crawl for those who are watching OTA. The 800 number goes to the organization that is distributing the $40 "coupons" for the purchase of an ATSC converter.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/13537548
> 
> 
> I wasn't too impressed withthe PQ on WKYC on Monday.
> 
> The picture seemed soft at times; especially when they went to replay.
> 
> 
> I was hoping maybe they had made some upgrades since last season.
> 
> I'm expecting STO to look better.
> 
> 
> I was watching the HD channel on DirecTv.
> 
> 
> What were your impressions?



I watched a few minutes of it off the DVR and did notice a few "fuzzouts" after scene changes. It seems to be a problem with the 1080i encoders that NBC (and to a lesser degree CBS) use when they have subchannels stealing bandwidth from the main channel. STO usually doesn't have that problem since you're getting full bitrate.


----------



## lonewolf6465

Well, I should've said that I am thinking in terms of the coming months. If there is a site with press releases or 'insider info' I'm more or less thinking about that sort of stuff. It would be nice to know, also, how do carriers add channels. I see new stations being added with and HD option and I tend to want them to start showing up asap.


----------



## paulmike3

So TWC NEO (Mayfield Hts.) added STOHD on channel 798 (still no realignment), which is where the Cavs FSNHD broadcasts normally are. There are still a couple Cavs games scheduled for FSNHD in the regular season... Anyone have any idea what channel they'll be on (if any)?


Also, anyone hear any news on ESPNEWS HD coming to TWC? I asked customer service (via chat - even sent him a link to TWC and ESPN's press releases). The dude told me this was the first he's heard of it, that they can't click on links, and that the web has alot of rumors -- basically told me I'm a liar. *sigh*


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lonewolf6465* /forum/post/13539675
> 
> 
> Well, I should've said that I am thinking in terms of the coming months. If there is a site with press releases or 'insider info' I'm more or less thinking about that sort of stuff. It would be nice to know, also, how do carriers add channels. I see new stations being added with and HD option and I tend to want them to start showing up asap.



If you want new HD channels to show up "ASAP" your best option is DirecTV. With cable, you'll be twiddling your thumbs for months waiting for them to come through with more HD.


If you want "inside info", it's pretty hard to come by with the cable companies. They keep everything pretty much confidential, but I guess I would too if I was getting my a$$ kicked by DirecTV







For inside info on DirecTV stuff, check out dbstalk.com - there are lots of people in direct communication with high level people at D*, and people involved in beta testing their products.


In a desperate attempt to add more HD channels, Comcast is now cramming 3 HD channels per QAM, thus reducing picture quality to what many say is an unacceptably low level. It would be sad if TWC and WOW started doing that crap.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13539696
> 
> 
> So TWC NEO (Mayfield Hts.) added STOHD on channel 798 (still no realignment), which is where the Cavs FSNHD broadcasts normally are. There are still a couple Cavs games scheduled for FSNHD in the regular season... Anyone have any idea what channel they'll be on (if any)?
> 
> 
> Also, anyone hear any news on ESPNEWS HD coming to TWC? *I asked customer service (via chat - even sent him a link to TWC and ESPN's press releases). The dude told me this was the first he's heard of it, that they can't click on links, and that the web has alot of rumors -- basically told me I'm a liar. *sigh**



I don't have TWC, but the common feeling of their CSR's in general is that they are completely worthless. Don't depend on them for any answers and take what they do say to you with a grain of salt.


----------



## smoti17

Still nothing from the Beeb on the copy protection issue. Meantime however, I've just got my first TWC bill since my cablecard install saga, and they've managed to bill me for *two* each of converter, cablecard and remote when I only have one of each. Sigh :-( Have put a call into their tech ops manager Mr Davis about both issues...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13539900
> 
> 
> If you want "inside info", it's pretty hard to come by with the cable companies. They keep everything pretty much confidential, but I guess I would too if I was getting my a$$ kicked by DirecTV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For inside info on DirecTV stuff, check out dbstalk.com - there are lots of people in direct communication with high level people at D*, and people involved in beta testing their products.



Open wound.....Pour Salt.........


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13540906
> 
> 
> Open wound.....Pour Salt.........



Riendnnn-nn-NNN-NNNNN_NNNNN_NNNNN.... (sound of chainsaw being started)


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13539928
> 
> 
> I don't have TWC, but the common feeling of their CSR's in general is that they are completely worthless. Don't depend on them for any answers and take what they do say to you with a grain of salt.



Well, the same can be said for just about any large corporation's CSRs....


----------



## smoti17

I spoke to him, he's looking into both issues.


In the meantime, here's a useful resource (though not completely up to date - Series 3 and HD appear to support TiVoToGo now, it's just crippled) about digital TV copy protection:

http://w2.eff.org/IP/pnp/ 


If you dig deeper there are contact points for complaining to the FCC etc - but I'm hoping we can resolve this by talking nicely to TWC folks...


Keith


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13541346
> 
> 
> Well, the same can be said for just about any large corporation's CSRs....



fair enough...


----------



## HD MM

Ok, fellow DirecTV-HD subs, I'm starting to wig-out! Please help ease my mind.....


We are currently at 6:20pm (T-minus 40 minutes till first pitch of the Tribe game), and D*s HD game only channel 96 is not live and it doesn't list anything in the guide showing the upcoming game!


I remember last year, channel 96 would often go live an hour before game time to show the pregame show with Bruce Drennan. Well, Bruce is on the 657 SD STO channel, but still nothing on channel 96!


Any help or insight?


----------



## jtscherne

As I mentioned over on DBStalk, this was a problem early in the season last year. I would watch channel 96 carefully over the next 20 minutes and pray...


----------



## HD MM

Anyone getting anything on D* channel 96?


----------



## HD MM

Funny, the STO site lists 657-1 as the STO HD channel and not 96 as it did last year. I realize STO's 24/7 channel was supposed to go live yesterday, but D* doesn't carry the full time channel yet. With that considered, it should be on channel 96. Please don't screw this up D*!....


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13542420
> 
> 
> Funny, the STO site lists 657-1 as the STO HD channel and not 96 as it did last year. I realize STO's 24/7 channel was supposed to go live yesterday, but D* doesn't carry the full time channel yet. With that considered, it should be on channel 96. Please don't screw this up D*!....



I am not seeing a 657-1 in my guide. Time to call D* and complain !


They are supposed to be switching 657-1 on and off for the games, until the new satellite is up and running and then 657-1 will stay in place 24/7.


----------



## GregF2

I live in the Amherst TW area (old Comcast) and today STOHD showed on 251, which used to be the station where Cavs, Blue Jackets and Indians HD was shown. Problem is it shows not authorized, so nothing is coming in. Called TW and they said it was because of digital realignment and it should correct itself in next few days and switch to 435. Anyone else having this issue? Geez why did they have to do it for tonights Tribe game. Really wanted to watch Carmona in HD and can't stand watching it in SD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13542445
> 
> 
> I am not seeing a 657-1 in my guide. Time to call D* and complain !
> 
> 
> They are supposed to be switching 657-1 on and off for the games, until the new satellite is up and running and then 657-1 will stay in place 24/7.



No 657-1 in my guide either! Nothing on channel 96 either! What's going on!


----------



## hookbill

I record it every night at 6:00 and the first part of it had all kinds of sound drop offs, perhaps freezing I don't know because I can just hear it.


Anyone else notice?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/13542484
> 
> 
> I live in the Amherst TW area (old Comcast) and today STOHD showed on 251, which used to be the station where Cavs, Blue Jackets and Indians HD was shown. Problem is it shows not authorized, so nothing is coming in. Called TW and they said it was because of digital realignment and it should correct itself in next few days and switch to 435. Anyone else having this issue? Geez why did they have to do it for tonights Tribe game. Really wanted to watch Carmona in HD and can't stand watching it in SD.



A few days? That doesn't make any sense.


I expect some of us to have some problems while they do this but no channel for days? Ridiculous!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13541119
> 
> 
> Riendnnn-nn-NNN-NNNNN_NNNNN_NNNNN.... (sound of chainsaw being started)



I don't think it's a bad idea. Specially with them restricting digital channels the way they are now. TW is really getting on my **** list, I didn't think anyone could top Adelphia but they are getting up there.


----------



## Argee

Whats the deal with DirecTV not carrying tonights game in HD? They were able to spotbeam the games last year in HD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13542568
> 
> 
> No 657-1 in my guide either! Nothing on channel 96 either! What's going on!



Just spent about 20 mins on the phone with them - DirecTV knows there is a problem and they are working on it. First they said it was blacked out in Ohio, I said no no, I can get 657 in SD, it's just the HD that is missing. Then after checking they said they are not getting the HD feed from STO (which somehow I highly doubt) But by the time I got off the phone she said the phones are buzzing about this STO HD problem in the call center and it will get fixed soon. She added sports pack to my account temporarily, hit the box a couple times, tried some other stuff but nothing is solving it.


----------



## paule123

Awww, $hit - I just checked the STO website - here's the real reason:


"DirecTV will NOT air tonight's Indians game or tomorrow afternoon's Indians game on STO HD. Bandwidth constraints is the reason, because of the many NBA, NHL and MLB HD games. They should have room for the April 4th STO HD Indians game. DirecTV customers can voice their displeasures at http://www.directv.com/email .


The Cleveland Indians at Oakland A's 4:00pmET game on Saturday April 5 will not be televised because it is scheduled during FOX's exclusive Saturday window. STO is prohibited from airing a MLB game during this window and FOX chose not to air it as their game of the week. We apologize for the inconvenience, but it is currently the only 2008 game that will not be televised."


www.sportstimeohio.com


----------



## jtscherne

It's a total garbage excuse, especially for tomorrow. The game is at 12:00 Noon tomorrow!!! What other basketball or hockey is going on then? Clevelanders are getting the shaft. The following HD games are being shown tonight in the extra innings package (home team shown): Marlins, Yankees, Braves, Twins, Cardinals, Mariners (including the Texas HD broadcast!), Dodgers


----------



## edjrwinnt

You DirecTV guys should switch to Time Warner. You'd be much happier.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13542770
> 
> 
> It's a total garbage excuse, especially for tomorrow. The game is at 12:00 Noon tomorrow!!! What other basketball or hockey is going on then? Clevelanders are getting the shaft. The following HD games are being shown tonight in the extra innings package (home team shown): Marlins, Yankees, Braves, Twins, Cardinals, Mariners (including the Texas HD broadcast!), Dodgers



and furthermore didn't they just light up 3 new HD channels today? a couple of which I find completely useless (Disney HD and Toon HD) turn those suckers back off and gimme my baseball !


----------



## jtscherne

Make sure that you email at the link provided. They need to be aware.


----------



## Argee

Oh yes, I really would be happier with Time Warner and their 12 channels of HD. NOT!

100 plus baby! (only not the Tribe game LOL!_


----------



## lonewolf6465

Thanks Paule for the help.


----------



## dleising

Tribe looks great in HD via TW here in Kent!


----------



## jtscherne

Oh, shut up!


Just kidding!!!!!!!


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13542705
> 
> 
> Just spent about 20 mins on the phone with them - DirecTV knows there is a problem and they are working on it. First they said it was blacked out in Ohio, I said no no, I can get 657 in SD, it's just the HD that is missing. Then after checking they said they are not getting the HD feed from STO (which somehow I highly doubt) But by the time I got off the phone she said the phones are buzzing about this STO HD problem in the call center and it will get fixed soon. She added sports pack to my account temporarily, hit the box a couple times, tried some other stuff but nothing is solving it.



I posed the same question in search for answers on SatelliteGuys and a poster responded by saying THIS. 


I will try and find a link or source in where he found this information regarding D* and STO-HD.....


*Edt- Woops, beat me too it Paule!


----------



## jtscherne

Here's the garbage response I just got to my email:


Thank you for writing. When I reviewed your DIRECTV account, I was able to verify that based on your ZIP code (44121), you have been assigned SportsTime Ohio(channel 657) as one of your local RSN.


We recently expanded our HD coverage to include select Cleveland Indians games broadcast in HD by SportsTime Ohio on channel 94/95 or 657-1. For details, check your onscreen program guide.


It's garbage because they didn't add 657-1, at least as of now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13539696
> 
> 
> So TWC NEO (Mayfield Hts.) added STOHD on channel 798 (still no realignment), which is where the Cavs FSNHD broadcasts normally are. There are still a couple Cavs games scheduled for FSNHD in the regular season... Anyone have any idea what channel they'll be on (if any)?



Good question - the answer, that's another story. I'm pretty sure no one knows.










Same boat here...798 is now listed as STOHD, and the guides on both my TWC boxes and TiVo's Tribune-powered guide show the appropriate programming, complete with [HD] designations, from tonight on. I'm guessing that means 798 will be STOHD until the much-promised digital channel realignment...it's listed as such on the STO HD website.


(OK, the TiVo guide is on my S2 SD box, on digital 179 - the long-time SD digital mirror of STO's analog channel that's already had "STOHD" listed...with no programming, ever, until today, in the guide.)


The part that addresses your question: Until this happened, the TWC-ex-Adelphia character generator for HD Bonus said the next HD event would be the Cavs' game, I believe tomorrow (or tonight?).


It sounds like they're just waiting for the realignment to sort itself out...unless the Cavs are in HD tonight on some channel I haven't found in the non-realigned TWC digital lineup.


I'll believe this realignment thing when I see it.











Oh, just looked, and the Cavs aren't listed in HD tonight. There are two more HD games on FSN Ohio - the 9th and the 14th. They play tomorrow, but on TNT.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13539298
> 
> 
> What's not true? The scrolls are coming from the local broadcasters, their analog OTA signals are going away in Feb 2009. Just because you happen to be watching a local station via analog cable or satellite (which is not taking the SD feeds away on that date), they still have to run the crawl for those who are watching OTA. The 800 number goes to the organization that is distributing the $40 "coupons" for the purchase of an ATSC converter.



My bad... I am watching OTA, the sets will still work with a STB, the scroll insinuates that you will "need" to call your dish or Cable company







or your set will not work ... at least from a lot of people I talk to that believe they will "have" to have cable.... so some are buying into this.


I'm just one that refuses to have cable, cells, Onstar, Sirrius, ect or anything else with a contract & a monthly sucking sound.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13543346
> 
> 
> Here's the garbage response I just got to my email:
> 
> 
> Thank you for writing. When I reviewed your DIRECTV account, I was able to verify that based on your ZIP code (44121), you have been assigned SportsTime Ohio(channel 657) as one of your local RSN.
> 
> 
> We recently expanded our HD coverage to include select Cleveland Indians games broadcast in HD by SportsTime Ohio on channel 94/95 or 657-1. For details, check your onscreen program guide.
> 
> 
> It's garbage because they didn't add 657-1, at least as of now.



Here's the response I just got:


"Thanks for writing us about the SportsTime Ohio being available in HD. I know that HD programming is important to you and we're committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you.


With respect to your inquiry, we would love to provide SportsTime Ohio but satellite capacity doesn't allow us to do that yet. However, we continue to expand our HD capacity and hope to offer more HD in your area in the near future. "


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13539271
> 
> 
> If by "STB" you mean coupon-eligible converter boxes, there are a handful of them that have "analog passthrough" to allow tuning low power analog TV stations after the 2009 cutoff date.



Exactly, a suit was filed last week to stop the sale of boxes without this feature.


I would think they would be like a VCR, when the power goes off on the STB the analog signal passes through the box & the TV functions normally... not so, I have to reconnect the cables to return to analog... what a pain. With the STB I've been missing my PBS on 25.. plus when 19 goes down I miss that too.


----------



## jtscherne

Over in dbstalk, someone who usually is in the know is stating that the first HD game on D* won't be until April 11th. It is supposedly a technical issue (something about faulty decoders, whatever that means). I still think we got the shaft, but it's obvious that D* isn't going to do anything about it now.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13543397
> 
> 
> Here's the response I just got:
> 
> 
> "Thanks for writing us about the SportsTime Ohio being available in HD. I know that HD programming is important to you and we're committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you.
> 
> 
> With respect to your inquiry, we would love to provide SportsTime Ohio but satellite capacity doesn't allow us to do that yet. However, we continue to expand our HD capacity and hope to offer more HD in your area in the near future. "


----------



## GregF2

Finally Tribe is coming in HD on TW channel 251. What a difference in picture and sound!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/13542484
> 
> 
> I live in the Amherst TW area (old Comcast) and today STOHD showed on 251, which used to be the station where Cavs, Blue Jackets and Indians HD was shown. Problem is it shows not authorized, so nothing is coming in. Called TW and they said it was because of digital realignment and it should correct itself in next few days and switch to 435. Anyone else having this issue? Geez why did they have to do it for tonights Tribe game. Really wanted to watch Carmona in HD and can't stand watching it in SD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13543522
> 
> 
> Over in dbstalk, someone who usually is in the know is stating that the first HD game on D* won't be until April 11th. It is supposedly a technical issue (something about faulty decoders, whatever that means). I still think we got the shaft, but it's obvious that D* isn't going to do anything about it now.



Technical issues sound more believable. Trying to use "lack of bandwidth" as an excuse for tomorrow's afternoon game like you said earlier makes no sense.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13543593
> 
> 
> Technical issues sound more believable. Trying to use "lack of bandwidth" as an excuse for tomorrow's afternoon game like you said earlier makes no sense.



I think customers like myself would have been much more understanding if they would just come right out and tell us the truth, if in fact a piece of equipment is broken. Think of all the man-hours the call center at DirecTV wasted tonight telling people to reboot their boxes, or telling people the game is blacked out and all kind of other crazy stuff, when the channel was never there to begin with.


----------



## jtscherne

I had a CSR tell me that the game might not be shown because it wasn't sold out...


----------



## Too_Many_options

Fox 8 HD news at 5:00 pm was unwatchable last night.

Lots of freeze, sound issues.

Other stations were fine.

I will quit watching fox 8 soon if this is not fixed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/13545886
> 
> 
> Fox 8 HD news at 5:00 pm was unwatchable last night.
> 
> Lots of freeze, sound issues.
> 
> Other stations were fine.
> 
> I will quit watching fox 8 soon if this is not fixed.




Can I ask how you watch? Was it OTA, cable or Sat?


Also I noticed you said 5:00. The one I recorded was at 6 so that means it went on for two hours! Not good.


I have it on this morning and no problems, that's why I ask how you watched. If it's just happening on cable then maybe TWC is screwing things up with this channel alignment.


----------



## Argee

The problem is at channel 8. Both the DirecTV feed and the OTA feed had this problem. The SD signal was fine but the HD signal was full of pixel breakups, freezes and sound problems. It went on thru the night and luckly we get the FOX HD feed from New York City on DirecTV so my wife was able to watch American Idol without all these issues.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/13545967
> 
> 
> The problem is at channel 8. Both the DirecTV feed and the OTA feed had this problem. The SD signal was fine but the HD signal was full of pixel breakups, freezes and sound problems. It went on thru the night and luckly we get the FOX HD feed from New York City on DirecTV so my wife was able to watch American Idol without all these issues.




Now you have me really curious (also a bit jealous). When I had D* pre HD back in Northern Kentucky I got the locals and West and East Coast feeds of broadcast. I use to watch the Raiders on the Los Angeles feed.


But I thought they cut that off with HD. So how do you get the HD feed from NY.


Also fwiw, I'm happy for your wife however I have to point out that American Idol is the part of the downfall of music in this country. That along with commercial radio. I never watch the show but who has to since it's reviewed so much on every network.


----------



## snagy

I was watching it on OTA signal and the meter was steady, but the picuture kept freezing.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13545987
> 
> 
> But I thought they cut that off with HD. So how do you get the HD feed from NY.



hook, I also get the FOXE feed on D*. I've had it for a few years now, and maybe I'm grandfathered in under an older Total Choice plan, but it was no big deal, I just had to ask for it.


Now I heard in the last couple weeks D* went to MPEG4 on all the west coast major network DNS feeds and that a bunch of people were being cut off, so maybe that will happen to the east coast DNS feeds soon.


----------



## Argee

It has something to do with if the local is owned by the network they will unblock the national feed out of NY (or LA). FOX 8 is the only Cleveland local owned by the network so they lift the blackout on the NYC feed for that one only in the Cleve market.


----------



## AdamPS

I was at the game last night (and froze my Pronk off), so I didn't realize D* had screwed this up. I just sent them an e-mail as well, we'll see how it goes.


----------



## AdamPS

I hate to post twice in a row, but I already received a "response" from DirecTV. needless to say, it wasn't exactly helpful:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DirecTV* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As soon as we have determined the Standard and High Definition programming schedule for any of our sports subscriptions, we post it at directv.com/sports . If a schedule isn't posted, that means we haven't received it yet from the league(s).



A reply to their e-mail asking for more details has already been sent. Stay tuned.


----------



## hookbill

FOX 8 News was messed up again by the time I left the house this morning!


I wonder what the problem is?


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13545987
> 
> 
> Now you have me really curious (also a bit jealous). When I had D* pre HD back in Northern Kentucky I got the locals and West and East Coast feeds of broadcast. I use to watch the Raiders on the Los Angeles feed.
> 
> 
> But I thought they cut that off with HD. So how do you get the HD feed from NY.
> 
> 
> Also fwiw, I'm happy for your wife however I have to point out that American Idol is the part of the downfall of music in this country. That along with commercial radio. I never watch the show but who has to since it's reviewed so much on every network.




Time Warner I use QAM tuner on my TV .

I starting watching the 5:00 news on 8.1 then switched to ch 5.1 which was fine (no issues).

I went back to 8.1 a couple of time but it was bad each time.


I imagine Fox 8 will see their HD viewers decrease if this continues.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13543378
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, just looked, and the Cavs aren't listed in HD tonight. There are two more HD games on FSN Ohio - the 9th and the 14th. They play tomorrow, but on TNT.



Thank goodness they will be on TNT. Are other people as tired as I am of hearing Austin Carr say the same phrases over and over every game: "The L-Train...puts the hammer down...coming down the lane, the L-Train....The new guys will do fine when they learn the system," interspersed with his constant lecturing, "The team needs to...." "They need to provide better defense." "They should practice their..." etc. etc. I'm sure he was a fine basketball player, but I wish they'd get someone else. In addition, he and his partner focus 90% of their comments on the Cleveland players. The network announcing teams generally do a more balanced, variegated commentary.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/13547417
> 
> 
> Time Warner I use QAM tuner on my TV .
> 
> I starting watching the 5:00 news on 8.1 then switched to ch 5.1 which was fine (no issues).
> 
> I went back to 8.1 a couple of time but it was bad each time.
> 
> 
> I imagine Fox 8 will see their HD viewers decrease if this continues.



OTA has been the same for 8.1 recently. Audio drops and digital artifacts.


----------



## rmanderson26

Time Warner has updated their Programming Notices page. Instead of March 4th for the line-up change for former Adelphia and Comcast customers, it now just says soon. So its anyone's guess as to when the line-up change will happen for the rest of us.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/North..._notices2.html


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/13547417
> 
> 
> Time Warner I use QAM tuner on my TV .
> 
> I starting watching the 5:00 news on 8.1 then switched to ch 5.1 which was fine (no issues).
> 
> I went back to 8.1 a couple of time but it was bad each time.
> 
> 
> I imagine Fox 8 will see their HD viewers decrease if this continues.



I had the same problem In University Heights last night. Fox 8.1 was terrible. NBC 3.1 didn't come in except for the sound and ABC 5.1 was also a little dicey. MOstly sound issues. Discovery Theater 86-3 was fine and STO 106-1 also had sound issues. PBS 25-1 was also ok.


----------



## paule123

Our friend over at dbstalk (who I beleive works for DirecTV) said the Indians games on STO HD should start April 4th (tomorrow), not April 11th as he had previously mentioned.


----------



## smoti17

Well, spoke to Mr Davis again. he sorted out my billing problems. On the copy protection, he believes that setting "copy once" (0x02) protection on digital tier channels is consistent with TWC policy and FCC regulations. I am very dubious about this, as it means that digital tier channels now have the same protection level as premiums like HBO, and I am not at all sure this is consistent with the regulations, which say that cable providers must allow "at least one generation of copies" for "pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access" programming,


It is also very clear that setting the CCI flag to anything other than 0x00 on any unencrypted channel is in breach of the regulations. Unfortunately I couldn't tackle him on this as I don't yet have the new line-up so no direct evidence of what is going on.


If you are still seeing CCI=0x02 on the digital version of any broadcast, basic or expanded basic channel under the new line-up, that is a breach of the regulations and I'd be happy to give you Mr Davis' details off-forum if you want to take this up with him. Or complain to the FCC here: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm 


The digital basic line-up situation is less clear - I'm going to try and get some advice from the EFF on this,

and/or wait for an answer from the BBC, to see whether it is worth an FCC complaint. In the meantime I appear to be stuck with my converter+Series2 if I want to copy anything digital to my laptop :-(


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13547676
> 
> 
> Thank goodness they will be on TNT. Are other people as tired as I am of hearing Austin Carr say the same phrases over and over every game: "The L-Train...puts the hammer down...coming down the lane, the L-Train....The new guys will do fine when they learn the system," interspersed with his constant lecturing, "The team needs to...." "They need to provide better defense." "They should practice their..." etc. etc. I'm sure he was a fine basketball player, but I wish they'd get someone else. In addition, he and his partner focus 90% of their comments on the Cleveland players. The network announcing teams generally do a more balanced, variegated commentary.



Personally I'm just as sick of that new play x play guy from Detroit (Fred McCloud). Until Michal Reghi was replaced by this hack, I never realized how great Reghi was. I miss Reghi and believe it or not, watch the TV games a lot less simply because of McCloud. Maybe it's the combination, but I really didn't mind when Austin Carr was with Reghi.


----------



## Ben Music

Hey Hook,


This freeze up and audio drop problem has been going on for about 3 to 4 weeks. It seems to be getting worse as the weeks go by. Last night on the 6:00 pm Fox news it got so bad that I almost changed the channel. I checked OTA, TWC, and Directv, and the same freezes and audio drops were on all three. I did notice that on shorter freezes the audio was ok, but on longer ones (5 to 10 sec or more) the audio would would also drop.


Does anyone know a tech at Fox 8? It acts like a loose cable, or perhaps a decoder starting to go bad.


Ben Music


----------



## terryfoster

To play devil's advocate here, the following two statements sound strikingly similar.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13549412
> 
> 
> On the copy protection, he believes that setting "copy once" (0x02) protection on digital tier channels is consistent with TWC policy and FCC regulations.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13549412
> 
> 
> cable providers must allow "at least one generation of copies" for "pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access" programming,



Maybe when the stream is copied to the drive it has spent its one copy. This idea seems consistent with the "Copy Never" 0x03 flag used for VOD/PPV content you can't record. If it would be different if they set the digital basic channels to 0x03 and you couldn't put this on your DVR, but they're not.


----------



## jtscherne

I just got an email response from Directv that says the same thing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13549398
> 
> 
> Our friend over at dbstalk (who I beleive works for DirecTV) said the Indians games on STO HD should start April 4th (tomorrow), not April 11th as he had previously mentioned.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13550656
> 
> 
> Maybe when the stream is copied to the drive it has spent its one copy. This idea seems consistent with the "Copy Never" 0x03 flag used for VOD/PPV content you can't record. If it would be different if they set the digital basic channels to 0x03 and you couldn't put this on your DVR, but they're not.



Talking to the EFF guy, it seems the whole topic is very murky. There are no clear regulations on what CCI settings are appropriate for digital tier programming.


I've seen some material which suggests that "copy once" should allow both a recording, and for that recording to be copied to another TiVo/PC, at which point the flag gets reset to "copy no more" (0x01), preventing further copies. It seems however the TiVo HD implementation makes no distinction between 0x01 and 0x02, and it's not at all obvious why :-(


However, it looks like there is no analog macrovision protection being applied, so maybe one way to make copyable (SD-only) recordings is to run the composite output from my HD to my Series 2. Will investigate this as a way of getting rid of my converter....


----------



## HD MM

Just got my email response from DirecTV regarding the STO-HD debacle...


Dear Mr.....


Thanks for writing. I understand how important the Indians are to you and we are working to bring you their games in high definition as soon as possible. We expect to start showing games in HD this weekend.


Sincerely,


Allen C.

Employee ID 100139001

DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## HD MM

Is the issue with Fox-8 News isolated to the 5pm edition?


Typically I try and avoid the local news as it has become all too sensational. Local news has turned into an extended advertisement and entertainment form instead of actually reporting on real news, but that is besides the point......


Anyways, I tuned in for about 10 minutes of the 6pm edition to see what all the talk was about and didn't notice anything wrong with audio/video dropouts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13552226
> 
> 
> Is the issue with Fox-8 News isolated to the 5pm edition?
> 
> 
> Typically I try and avoid the local news as it has become all too sensational. Local news has turned into an extended advertisement and entertainment form instead of actually reporting on real news, but that is besides the point......
> 
> 
> Anyways, I tuned in for about 10 minutes of the 6pm edition to see what all the talk was about and didn't notice anything wrong with audio/video dropouts.



Nope, if you look at my post I mentioned it was going on as I was leaving this morning. So far tonight so good on my recording.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13550656
> 
> 
> To play devil's advocate here, the following two statements sound strikingly similar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe when the stream is copied to the drive it has spent its one copy. This idea seems consistent with the "Copy Never" 0x03 flag used for VOD/PPV content you can't record. If it would be different if they set the digital basic channels to 0x03 and you couldn't put this on your DVR, but they're not.



Never copy PPV? Is that how TW does it? I honestly don't know, I've never bought a PPV from TW but that doesn't make any sense. When I had D* we could record PPV.


I've got a feeling that this copy protection thing is TW's way of screwing people who use other DVR's. I've never really believed in a "conspiracy" theory on cable companies but it makes absolutely no sense to put a copy once on a digital stream. PPV, ok I understand. Premium channels, fine.


But even the TBS, TNT, and ESPN channels should be copy freely simply because their analog counterparts are.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13552321
> 
> 
> Never copy PPV? Is that how TW does it? I honestly don't know, I've never bought a PPV from TW but that doesn't make any sense. When I had D* we could record PPV.
> 
> 
> I've got a feeling that this copy protection thing is TW's way of screwing people who use other DVR's. I've never really believed in a "conspiracy" theory on cable companies but it makes absolutely no sense to put a copy once on a digital stream. PPV, ok I understand. Premium channels, fine.
> 
> 
> But even the TBS, TNT, and ESPN channels should be copy freely simply because their analog counterparts are.



Yes you can DVR PPV. I've recorded the past couple World Series of Poker final tables.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13552226
> 
> 
> Is the issue with Fox-8 News isolated to the 5pm edition?
> 
> 
> Typically I try and avoid the local news as it has become all too sensational. Local news has turned into an extended advertisement and entertainment form instead of actually reporting on real news, but that is besides the point......
> 
> 
> Anyways, I tuned in for about 10 minutes of the 6pm edition to see what all the talk was about and didn't notice anything wrong with audio/video dropouts.



I had to re-load all my channels yesterday. 3.1, 5.1, 8.1 were all gone..I didn't check if they other HD channels were gone too. They came back again in the same spot and all work.


----------



## jtscherne

For you D* subscribers out there:


657-1 (STO HD) showed up in the guide this morning. We won't get the whole channel at this point, just the games. Tonight's game is shown for HD.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13555249
> 
> 
> For you D* subscribers out there:
> 
> 
> 657-1 (STO HD) showed up in the guide this morning. We won't get the whole channel at this point, just the games. Tonight's game is shown for HD.



Woah. This is great news jtscherne! I would imagine the 24/7 version of this HD channel would go live once DirecTV 11 is up and running in the summer. But for now, I am happy knowing that there is an HD channel reserved for the games.


And just so everyone knows, according to STO's site: 


"The Cleveland Indians at Oakland A’s 4:00pmET game on Saturday April 5 will not be televised because it is scheduled during FOX’s exclusive Saturday window. STO is prohibited from airing a MLB game during this window and FOX chose not to air it as their game of the week. We apologize for the inconvenience, but it is currently the only 2008 game that will not be televised."


----------



## hookbill

Isn't this great news! We still have restricted channels and no additional HD in our area. I'm happy to share this with all of the TW subs out there.


Still no word from my headend person about the restricted digital. This doesn't look good.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13555495
> 
> 
> Isn't this great news! We still have restricted channels and no additional HD in our area. I'm happy to share this with all of the TW subs out there.
> 
> 
> Still no word from my headend person about the restricted digital. This doesn't look good.



Hook, I am becoming quite confused over this digital channel copying issue. I just bought a (Toshiba) DVD recorder and have been able to copy a bunch of Fit-TV Shimmy episodes using the "copy to VCR" function and Output 2 of my SA8300. I was also able to copy a "That's Life" episode recorded off 8.1. (In fact, I was quite surprised/pleased that I could "copy to VCR", watch a recorded HD show and record another HD show at the same time.)


What copying is being restricted by the setting of the 0x.0y bits?


Also, I was finally able to watch Channel 8 news at 5 in its entirety yesterday with no break-ups.


----------



## smoti17

AFAICT the copy-protection measures only seem to affect TiVo HD users. If you have a TWC/SA converter, recording from the analog outputs of that (to e.g.a TiVo Series 2 or DVD recorder) does not appear restricted (though this is unlikely for DVI/HDMI outputs and unclear for IEEE 1394).


My program to get rid of my converter box suffered another blow yesterday when my cablecard stopped working again - looks like they deleted the wrong thing when fixing my billing problem. Grrr. What a mess.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Has anyone heard the lastest on AT & T Uverse in Lorain County? I'm about ready to pull the plug on Time Warner even it if means just using my TiVoHD for OTA. My internet access is acting up again and I had to have 2 or 3 cable guys out last time to fix it back in November.


Saturday may be do or die day for TimeWarner for me when they come out for a 3rd time to install the M-Card. I have to call them tonight and let them know my internet access has been acting up all week too. They already came out on Tuesday for yet another call to check the connection outside. Fortunately I did not have to be there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13556064
> 
> 
> AFAICT the copy-protection measures only seem to affect TiVo HD users. If you have a TWC/SA converter, recording from the analog outputs of that (to e.g.a TiVo Series 2 or DVD recorder) does not appear restricted (though this is unlikely for DVI/HDMI outputs and unclear for IEEE 1394).




No you guys don't get it. We can record the programs just fine. The problem is that we can't move them from one TiVo to another or store them in our computers.


----------



## smoti17

Sorry, I should have said that recordings made via analog from a converter box to a Series2 do not have the restriction that prevents them being copied to other TiVos/computers.


After yet another call to Mr Davis my cablecard is working again, for now.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13557039
> 
> 
> No you guys don't get it. We can record the programs just fine. The problem is that we can't move them from one TiVo to another or store them in our computers.



Which, from only what I've read in this thread, appears to be within the rights of the cable co. The only way around these kinds of limitations is the typical "analog hole".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13558104
> 
> 
> Which, from only what I've read in this thread, appears to be within the rights of the cable co. The only way around these kinds of limitations is the typical "analog hole".



Yeah, it does seem to be within their rights at this time. What irritates me is TiVo seems to have no interest in helping with this. At least at the customer service level.


I put in a call to my contact at headend today. I'll find out tonight if there is any response.


----------



## nickdawg

Looks like there is something Tivo can't do!






































I hear a tiny violin!


----------



## dleising

We had a cleaning person at our house today and she told me that a TW truck stopped by (probably to give me another box). Here is the thing: I had no idea they were coming today. No call. Nothing.


WTF?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13560888
> 
> 
> We had a cleaning person at our house today and she told me that a TW truck stopped by (probably to give me another box). Here is the thing: I had no idea they were coming today. No call. Nothing.
> 
> 
> WTF?



Did you ever order another box or are they swapping them out? I really hope they swap out ALL the Pioneer boxes. The one in my bedroom has been a POS since the Navigator downgrade. About the only thing those Pioneer boxes are good for is target practice


----------



## MediaObsessions

I compiled a list of most channels and their CCI byte info. This is for the Canton area, "Post-rebuild" (new lineup), your mileage may vary and it may change at anytime. The data is attached in a pdf. I was not able to complete this for EVERY channel, but I got most of them. It is color coded and sorted per their new lineup info.


Remember 0x00 means programs can be freely transferred between other TiVos and PC's on your network. They can also be archived digitally via PC. 0x02 means programs can be recorded and played back, but cannot be transferred to another TiVo or PC.


For the most part, channels on the digital tier that do not have an analog counterpart are 0x02. There are some anomalies such as:


ABC Family, Hallmark, TV Land, TV ONE, MTV2 and Headline News all have analog channels, but their digital channels are 0x02.


The following channels have analog channels, 0x00 digital counterparts, but their HD channels are 0x02:

History, HGTV, Food, TBS, TNT, A&E, ESPN, ESPN2, STO. That means that TiVos can transfer and digitally copy these channels on analog and digital, but not on their HD feeds.


There is some good news-- all broadcast HD feeds are 0x00, but probably only because the FCC says so.


If you have any questions about the post-rebuild lineup or anything else just let me know. If you want the original Excel file PM me. Thanks.

 

CCI TWC NEO.pdf 47.720703125k . file


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13561196
> 
> 
> Did you ever order another box or are they swapping them out? I really hope they swap out ALL the Pioneer boxes. The one in my bedroom has been a POS since the Navigator downgrade. About the only thing those Pioneer boxes are good for is target practice



We have an SD Pioneer box as well. It has actually worked great. It was faster than the SA8300HD we have, and although the Navigator "upgrade" slowed it down it still runs pretty well. I find it to be a good SDTV box.


The TW guy was coming to add a new non-DVR HD box. It is not replacing anything that we currently have. I just like how I have no 'effing idea that they are coming out. I was pretty much dumbfounded. I called them, and said I would rather install it myself. The rep told me that even though they are telling everybody that they are "out" of the non-DVR HD boxes, that they will have one to give me at a local store (supposedly because I am on "the list"). We'll see. Ill be pissed if I drive out to the store again and get turned down by another rude rep.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13559718
> 
> 
> Looks like there is something Tivo can't do!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear a tiny violin!



You know what sometimes I like you but sometimes you really piss me off and now is one of them. Did you not see that the guys don't want us to go through this pissing match.


Be an adult, if you can and knock it off.


----------



## Brian5150

Just a fyi for any1 w/ Armstrong cable.

I noticed they moved the local HD channels.

103.1 FOX

103.2 ABC

104.1 NBC

104.3 CBS


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13561988
> 
> 
> You know what sometimes I like you but sometimes you really piss me off and now is one of them. Did you not see that the guys don't want us to go through this pissing match.
> 
> 
> Be an adult, if you can and knock it off.


----------



## Inundated

I wonder if I could bet any money on the digital realignment never coming to the old Adelphia systems...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13563241
> 
> 
> I wonder if I could bet any money on the digital realignment never coming to the old Adelphia systems...



It wouldn't suprise me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13563261
> 
> 
> It wouldn't suprise me.



Oh, I'm mostly being sarcastic...they have taken a "pause" between the legacy systems and the old Adelphia systems, probably for good technical reasons.


I just wish they'd be better at communicating when the changes are coming. I will have to run Guided Setup on my TiVo S2 again to get a regular digital cable recording on track whenever it happens!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13563281
> 
> 
> I will have to run Guided Setup on my TiVo S2 again to get a regular digital cable recording on track whenever it happens!



I've noticed an interesting side-effect of the new lineup on my Tivo. When the switch happened, I ran Guided Setup to point to the new lineup, but aborted the rest of GS. Everything seemed to work, so I didn't worry about it.


Here's the interesting part: When viewing the Season Pass list, it shows the channel number from the old lineup, yet it records the matching programs using the new channel number. Ex: "Real Time with Bill Maher" is in the SP list on channel 301, yet it correctly recorded tonight on channel 603.


Still debating if this is a good or bad thing - could be a glitch in TiVo, or could be an indication that the TiVo software is smart enough to work around cable companies changing things. Leaning more towards the good side - as long as the shows are recorded, I really don't care what channel the SP list shows.


Side note: since HBO recently started filming Real Time in true 16:9 HD instead of 4:3 HD w/black bars, I just deleted and re-subscribed to the show on HBO-HD. The season pass now indicates the correct channel 602.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13564381
> 
> 
> I've noticed an interesting side-effect of the new lineup on my Tivo. When the switch happened, I ran Guided Setup to point to the new lineup, but aborted the rest of GS. Everything seemed to work, so I didn't worry about it.
> 
> 
> Here's the interesting part: When viewing the Season Pass list, it shows the channel number from the old lineup, yet it records the matching programs using the new channel number. Ex: "Real Time with Bill Maher" is in the SP list on channel 301, yet it correctly recorded tonight on channel 603.
> 
> 
> Still debating if this is a good or bad thing - could be a glitch in TiVo, or could be an indication that the TiVo software is smart enough to work around cable companies changing things. Leaning more towards the good side - as long as the shows are recorded, I really don't care what channel the SP list shows.
> 
> 
> Side note: since HBO recently started filming Real Time in true 16:9 HD instead of 4:3 HD w/black bars, I just deleted and re-subscribed to the show on HBO-HD. The season pass now indicates the correct channel 602.



It's up to you. Many people don't like it so they redo their season passes. The problem with that is if you have 70 season passes on two TiVos, that can take some time.


But whether you do it or not it will still work correctly. It would be nice if that could be aligned automatically.


----------



## Inundated

Does this issue actually go away at some point?


My guess is that it shows up with the old channel since the SPs have already been "populated" in the recording list. If this theory is correct, it would start populating the list with listings with the new channel from that day on (2 weeks down the road).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13564816
> 
> 
> Does this issue actually go away at some point?
> 
> 
> My guess is that it shows up with the old channel since the SPs have already been "populated" in the recording list. If this theory is correct, it would start populating the list with listings with the new channel from that day on (2 weeks down the road).



To be honest, I don't know. I've only read that some people just arn't comfortable with it and would rather have it taken care of on it's own. My guess? It probably doesn't change until you change it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/13550604
> 
> 
> Hey Hook,
> 
> 
> This freeze up and audio drop problem has been going on for about 3 to 4 weeks. It seems to be getting worse as the weeks go by. Last night on the 6:00 pm Fox news it got so bad that I almost changed the channel. I checked OTA, TWC, and Directv, and the same freezes and audio drops were on all three. I did notice that on shorter freezes the audio was ok, but on longer ones (5 to 10 sec or more) the audio would would also drop.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know a tech at Fox 8? It acts like a loose cable, or perhaps a decoder starting to go bad.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I don't know a tech, however there has been a car parked outside the FOX 8 transmitter building on Pleasant Valley with amateur radio call license plates on a nearly daily basis lately. I'm willing to bet that's the chief engineer's car. I drive past there every day, there usually is nobody parked there. I'm willing to bet the engineer has his hands full at the moment.


----------



## smoti17

Thanks for the PDF list of the CCI setting for the new channel line-up. While having my cablecard service restored (again) yesterday, I got a visit from TWC's local ace cablecard tech. He said two things of interest:


- The TWC policy is that any channel which is transmitted encrypted will have CCI set to 0x02.

This looks consistent with your line-up listing, as the 0x02 channels are mostly either digital tier or non-broadcast HD offerings. While I don't agree with this excessive copy-protection (and apparently Comcast don't do this), it would not appear to be in direct breach of FCC regulations :-(


- That they _plan_ to have the new line-up completed by end April, including the non-legacy Cleveland suburbs.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13564866
> 
> 
> To be honest, I don't know. I've only read that some people just arn't comfortable with it and would rather have it taken care of on it's own. My guess? It probably doesn't change until you change it.



Thought about this for a while today from a programmer's perspective. I haven't dug into the TiVo internals much, but I'm guessing they use some sort of "channel ID" that's independent of the channel number and callsign. The SP list is probably made up of channel ID and series ID. In MythTV terms, The Weather Channel has XMLID (channel ID) 11187, and their "Weather Now" program has series ID EP00811246. With those two bits of information, the SP scheduler could record the right channel/show even if the channel lineup changes and easily handle things like "record The Simpsons (series ID EP00018693) on any channel at any time". The SP channel number is stuck into a table when the SP is created - that's what shows on your screen, but the actual trigger is channel/series ID. When a recording kicks off, the Now Showing list has an entry added that shows which channel the show was recorded on.


That's just a guess, but that's how I would do it. If I'm right, this would explain this SP magic I'm seeing.


Anybody confused?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13565501
> 
> 
> I don't know a tech, however there has been a car parked outside the FOX 8 transmitter building on Pleasant Valley with amateur radio call license plates on a nearly daily basis lately. I'm willing to bet that's the chief engineer's car. I drive past there every day, there usually is nobody parked there. I'm willing to bet the engineer has his hands full at the moment.



If you think about it, jot down the callsign from the license plate. I'd be interested in looking it up.


----------



## hookbill

I'm not getting any sound from my dolby on WKYC. At first I thought maybe something wrong with my TiVo because the upstairs TiVo was fine, but the upstairs TiVo uses analog sound cables. I switched the downstairs to PCM and there is the sound.


Can one of you guys with Dolby 5.1 take a look and let me know if you're getting digital sound from whatever you use?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, I don't have the projector on right now, but I turned on my STB and receiver, and all 6 channels are lit up on my receiver. So it seems as if I AM receiving surround, but when I put my ears up to the speakers there seems to only be sound coming from the front L and R channels. This is channel 3.1 on TW via QAM in Canton.

Hope this helps and good luck.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13571483
> 
> 
> Hook, I don't have the projector on right now, but I turned on my STB and receiver, and all 6 channels are lit up on my receiver. So it seems as if I AM receiving surround, but when I put my ears up to the speakers there seems to only be sound coming from the front L and R channels. This is channel 3.1 on TW via QAM in Canton.
> 
> Hope this helps and good luck.




Operator error










It seems that if you don't turn on the speakers they don't work. With my computer crashing I had to go to the Harmony site which decided to reprogram my remote, incorrectly I might add. I couldn't adjust sound to my rear speakers.


So I stayed up until 2:00 am trying to figure out how to put it back the way it was. I did but earlier in the evening I turned off the front speakers and didn't turn them back on. So the Center speaker wasn't working as well.


All is working fine now. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13571655
> 
> 
> Operator error
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that if you don't turn on the speakers they don't work. With my computer crashing I had to go to the Harmony site which decided to reprogram my remote, incorrectly I might add. I couldn't adjust sound to my rear speakers.
> 
> 
> So I stayed up until 2:00 am trying to figure out how to put it back the way it was. I did but earlier in the evening I turned off the front speakers and didn't turn them back on. So the Center speaker wasn't working as well.
> 
> 
> All is working fine now. Thanks for the help.



Glad to hear you got it working ok.









BTW, if you'd stop visiting "those sites", then you computer will stop crashing all the time...














.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13571483
> 
> 
> Hook, I don't have the projector on right now, but I turned on my STB and receiver, and all *6 channels are lit up on my receiver. So it seems as if I AM receiving surround, but when I put my ears up to the speakers there seems to only be sound coming from the front L and R channels.* This is channel 3.1 on TW via QAM in Canton.
> 
> Hope this helps and good luck.



That's a bad habit most of the Cleveland stations seem to have. WOIO, WEWS and WUAB are always flagged as 3/2.1 and they do an awful upconversion to surround sound. That "fake surround" is







. WKYC is always flagged as 3/2.1, but there is only surround on NBC Dolby Digital porgramming. WBNX is also 3/2.1, but they seem to have a fron 3.1 thing going on. I don't think I've ever heard anything out of the rear speakers on WBNX, even shows identified as Dolby Digital.


The only station that does it "right" is WJW. They are 2/0 anytime non-network programming is on. They switch to 3/2.1 for HD/network programming.

--------------------

Speaking of WKYC, I find it interesting that shows like Leno and Conan are liste in the guide as Dolby Digital are not. I only get L and R on Leno and Conan. But the REAL irritating thing is they actually send many HD commercials through in 5.1!! A few days ago my ears were assaulted by that g**damn Volkswagen car alarm commercial *in 5.1 at 1:23AM*
























I always et my receiver to force 2 channel when leno starts... to be safe


----------



## nickdawg

Anyone else having macroblocking/freezing issues on WOIO/WUAB? WOIO was OK during "Dexter" tonight, but it was freezing during the local news.


Now I'm getting it on WUAB during "South Park". The first half hour at midnight was OK, but now it's acting up more.


----------



## hookbill

OK guys, I gotta question. I know both of you have pretty good DVR's and I know you don't have to worry about cable cards. Is there any copy restriction? Can you do multi room viewing? Can you use eSATA? And finally can you store to your computer?


I'm not trying to start a battle here, I'm going to war with TW and I want my facts straight.


Thanks. I'd like to hear from a Dish and D* person.


----------



## jtscherne

D* person...


At this point no multi room viewing, no computer storing, no way to copy digitally. You CAN use eSATA, but not in addition to the drive in the DVR (it's one or the other).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13577416
> 
> 
> OK guys, I gotta question. I know both of you have pretty good DVR's and I know you don't have to worry about cable cards. Is there any copy restriction? Can you do multi room viewing? Can you use eSATA? And finally can you store to your computer?
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to start a battle here, I'm going to war with TW and I want my facts straight.
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'd like to hear from a Dish and D* person.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13577484
> 
> 
> D* person...
> 
> 
> At this point no multi room viewing, no computer storing, no way to copy digitally. You CAN use eSATA, but not in addition to the drive in the DVR (it's one or the other).



It should also be noted that the D* HR-20 can play video, music, and photos stored on a networked PC in the house. I doubt if you'll *ever* see a cable company box with that capability.


There is also the HDPC-20, a D* tuner for the PC which is currently in trials.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...hlight=hdpc-20 


By the end of the year the array of hardware and software possibilities with D* is going to be mighty hard to beat.


Edit:

- Remote booking - scheduling a recording from anywhere via the D* website portal - also something I doubt you'll ever see from the cable company.


- The D* Single Wire Multiswitch is out now, lets you run one cable to your D* tuners.


- The AM21 is an ATSC OTA tuner that plugs into the D* HR21 receiver USB port for OTA support


----------



## jtscherne

Actually Tivo allows remote booking and it should not make a difference who is providing the signal for them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13577813
> 
> 
> It should also be noted that the D* HR-20 can play video, music, and photos stored on a networked PC in the house. I doubt if you'll *ever* see a cable company box with that capability.
> 
> 
> There is also the HDPC-20, a D* tuner for the PC which is currently in trials.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...hlight=hdpc-20
> 
> 
> By the end of the year the array of hardware and software possibilities with D* is going to be mighty hard to beat.
> 
> 
> Edit:
> 
> - Remote booking - scheduling a recording from anywhere via the D* website portal - also something I doubt you'll ever see from the cable company.
> 
> 
> - The D* Single Wire Multiswitch is out now, lets you run one cable to your D* tuners.
> 
> 
> - The AM21 is an ATSC OTA tuner that plugs into the D* HR21 receiver USB port for OTA support



Well, what I'm looking for here is if you can transfer digital channels, why can't we? Now I'm talking about actually transfering the whole file, not streaming.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13579412
> 
> 
> Well, what I'm looking for here is if you can transfer digital channels, why can't we? Now I'm talking about actually transfering the whole file, not streaming.



I believe some cable boxes are the only ones that allow the capturing of the transport stream through Firewire. There is too much fear of high quality pirating if you allow the digital transfer of these programs off of the hard drive.


----------



## dmkasper

I'm an Armstrong subscriber in Medina using a Motorola DVR. I've read some things about the Pace Tahoe DVR which I see Armstrong has listed on their site. Does anyone have a Pace Tahoe DVR with Armstrong? Any opinions on whether it's better than the Motorola? The Tahoe looks like a step up and from what I've read, I could hook up an external drive via an e-SATA cable to increase my HD capacity. I'm very happy with Armstrong but not loving the Motorola. Always looking for something better I guess.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmkasper* /forum/post/13581314
> 
> 
> I'm an Armstrong subscriber in Medina using a Motorola DVR. I've read some things about the Pace Tahoe DVR which I see Armstrong has listed on their site. Does anyone have a Pace Tahoe DVR with Armstrong? Any opinions on whether it's better than the Motorola? The Tahoe looks like a step up and from what I've read, I could hook up an external drive via an e-SATA cable to increase my HD capacity. I'm very happy with Armstrong but not loving the Motorola. Always looking for something better I guess.



I have the PACE at home and it is a very good STB. Unfortunately from what I understand the software on the PACE won't support the eSATA connection.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13581629
> 
> 
> I have the PACE at home and it is a very good STB. Unfortunately from what I understand the software on the PACE won't support the eSATA connection.



Did you have a Motorola before getting the PACE box? If so, what do you like better about the new one? Any downside?


Also, I've been meaning to PM you. I know you have Armstrong and are "in the know." What's the connection between Armstrong and Comcast? I had always suspected that there was some commonality by the fact that Armstrong uses the exact same boxes as Comcast. And the other day I noticed on Channel 888 a Comcast-sponsored on-demand thing that looks like it plays commercials. I haven't been able to find anything else linking the two, though, and Armstrong definitely bills itself as being a stand-alone company.


Thanks.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13583210
> 
> 
> Did you have a Motorola before getting the PACE box? If so, what do you like better about the new one? Any downside?
> 
> 
> Also, I've been meaning to PM you. I know you have Armstrong and are "in the know." What's the connection between Armstrong and Comcast? I had always suspected that there was some commonality by the fact that Armstrong uses the exact same boxes as Comcast. And the other day I noticed on Channel 888 a Comcast-sponsored on-demand thing that looks like it plays commercials. I haven't been able to find anything else linking the two, though, and Armstrong definitely bills itself as being a stand-alone company.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I have family in the Y-Town area that have that STB I think. Works okay, looks nice. The only thing I found annoying is that there was a banner ad in the EPG, a real downer if you ask me.


----------



## dleising

I recently sent Steve Fry an email about my endeavor to get a non-DVR HD box. I sent him an email last night. And we received apologetic calls this morning and a box was at my doorstep when I came home from work. Jim Long from the Kent office (where the box must have come from) left his business card with the box.


I hate to go to the big guys on top but sometimes you have to in order to get things done!


And, Steve certainly did that.


When I set it up it immediately downloaded the "Mystro" software, which could run better on this HD box (Pioneer), in my opinion. But what do you expect...


My SA8300HD still has Passport on it and is the only box in my house that has not been "Mystro'd" yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13583390
> 
> 
> I recently sent Steve Fry an email about my endeavor to get a non-DVR HD box. I sent him an email last night. And we received apologetic calls this morning and a box was at my doorstep when I came home from work. Jim Long from the Kent office (where the box must have come from) left his business card with the box.
> 
> 
> I hate to go to the big guys on top but sometimes you have to in order to get things done!
> 
> 
> And, Steve certainly did that.
> 
> 
> When I set it up it immediately downloaded the "Mystro" software, which could run better on this HD box (Pioneer), in my opinion. But what do you expect...
> 
> 
> My SA8300HD still has Passport on it and is the only box in my house that has not been "Mystro'd" yet.




I don't know if Steve Fry actually looks at those emails, maybe he has an assistant or maybe he does. No one ever really gets an email back from him, but one thing is certain whatever your complaint was it does get addressed and with authority.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13583338
> 
> 
> I have family in the Y-Town area that have that STB I think. Works okay, looks nice. The only thing I found annoying is that there was a banner ad in the EPG, a real downer if you ask me.



The moto boxes have them too. They suck, but you get used to it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13579701
> 
> 
> I believe some cable boxes are the only ones that allow the capturing of the transport stream through Firewire. There is too much fear of high quality pirating if you allow the digital transfer of these programs off of the hard drive.



The firewire port carries 5C content protection, just like HDMI carries HDCP.


----------



## orange5814

Am I the only person in North East Ohio that is unable to watch a freakin TV show without signal problems... I have had it with Time Warner. I am 45 minutes into "New Amsterdam" and the signal is just cutting out and pausing and dropping for no reason. ARGH!!!!!


I live in a 5 year old house, with structured RG6 quad shield wiring, in a new development. If I hear one more time from Time Warner that it is not there problem, I am going to scream.


Thanks for listening... Rant Over










-Scott


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/13584162
> 
> 
> Am I the only person in North East Ohio that is unable to watch a freakin TV show without signal problems... I have had it with Time Warner. I am 45 minutes into "New Amsterdam" and the signal is just cutting out and pausing and dropping for no reason. ARGH!!!!!
> 
> 
> I live in a 5 year old house, with structured RG6 quad shield wiring, in a new development. If I hear one more time from Time Warner that it is not there problem, I am going to scream.
> 
> 
> Thanks for listening... Rant Over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Scott



Scott....We've been talking about this for some time now. Fox 8 is having problems. It's not TW. OTA people see it and everyone else.


So point your frustration at FOX 8.


Funny how we always think first "it's the provider" then "it's my equipment" and last "it's the broadcaster."


----------



## 2PuttChuck

It's not just Fox 8. The NCAA game on CBS HD is unwatchable due to continuous freeze ups. I am watching it ok on TW Channel 9 (SD), but it sure looks better in HD. SD is not what I paid for - TW is really screwed up tonight, at least in the Canton area.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13584241
> 
> 
> Scott....We've been talking about this for some time now. Fox 8 is having problems. It's not TW. OTA people see it and everyone else.
> 
> 
> So point your frustration at FOX 8.
> 
> 
> Funny how we always think first "it's the provider" then "it's my equipment" and last "it's the broadcaster."


----------



## orange5814

Hook, Thanks for the heads up.. I am just frustrated with TWC because I am on my 3rd SA8300 HDC, and this one is going back on Thursday. The hard drive fried on box 1, box 2 only recorded what it wanted to, and this box won't output in HD unless I run the setup wizard every time I power up.


I apologize that I haven't been keeping up with the forums lately. As usual, you folks have the answers. Thank you agian for the info


--Scott


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/13584270
> 
> 
> It's not just Fox 8. The NCAA game on CBS HD is unwatchable due to continuous freeze ups. I am watching it ok on TW Channel 9 (SD), but it sure looks better in HD. SD is not what I paid for - TW is really screwed up tonight, at least in the Canton area.



Here in Amherst we have trouble with all the HD local channels, which seems like every other day. One or all will go out at any given time. One time there is no signal other times my TV shows audio only (with no sound). I don't have any trouble with the rest of the HD channels, only the local. I have Time Warner with cablecard.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/13584270
> 
> 
> It's not just Fox 8. The NCAA game on CBS HD is unwatchable due to continuous freeze ups. I am watching it ok on TW Channel 9 (SD), but it sure looks better in HD. SD is not what I paid for - TW is really screwed up tonight, at least in the Canton area.



Me too in N. Canton. My buddy in Cuyahoga Falls is seeing the same thing. I hate the fact I have to watch in SD.


----------



## danwv

TWC is having issues tonight here in Streetsboro as well. Several of the HD channels are freezing up and RR seems a bit flakey tonight. (I verified Fox, CBS, CW, WUAB). I checked that the same issues are on both of our TVs and SA8300s. I tried calling the 800 number, but I get a busy signal .... not even put on hold. I haven't seen any issues with the Indians on STOHD.


edit: STOHD is having a few issues but not nearly as bad as CBS or Fox.


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danwv* /forum/post/13584525
> 
> 
> TWC is having issues tonight here in Streetsboro as well. Several of the HD channels are freezing up and RR seems a bit flakey tonight. (I verified Fox, CBS, CW, WUAB). I checked that the same issues are on both of our TVs and SA8300s. I tried calling the 800 number, but I get a busy signal .... not even put on hold. I haven't seen any issues with the Indians on STOHD.
> 
> 
> edit: STOHD is having a few issues but not nearly as bad as CBS or Fox.



ABC (Channel 5.1 ) had issues as well (I am also Time Warner)


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/13586184
> 
> 
> ABC (Channel 5.1 ) had issues as well (I am also Time Warner)



My wife was commenting on these problems as well. She observed them on a number of different channels last night. I watched only briefly last night, but I did note that Wheel of Fortune locked up long enough to miss the entire "bonus round" puzzle. And for a little while, we were getting audio along with a blank gray screen.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13583210
> 
> 
> Did you have a Motorola before getting the PACE box? If so, what do you like better about the new one? Any downside?
> 
> 
> Also, I've been meaning to PM you. I know you have Armstrong and are "in the know." What's the connection between Armstrong and Comcast? I had always suspected that there was some commonality by the fact that Armstrong uses the exact same boxes as Comcast. And the other day I noticed on Channel 888 a Comcast-sponsored on-demand thing that looks like it plays commercials. I haven't been able to find anything else linking the two, though, and Armstrong definitely bills itself as being a stand-alone company.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



This comes from being "in the know" about the eSATA port:


"You can hook up an external hard drive, but the DCT will format it to the DCT. It will not allow you to record to a specific HD and you cannot take that drive and hook it to another DCT or to a PC. All it does is increase capacity on the particular box it is mated to."


The last I knew, Comcast was still the ad rep for Armstrong. I believe Comcast handles traffic for Armstrong's local commercials.


The only thing I noticed between the PACE and Motorola was the PQ was much better on the DVI connector. I ended up using the component cables on the Motorola because the picture looked washed out. The PACE looked good over DVI. Also the PACE has more storage.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13583477
> 
> 
> The firewire port carries 5C content protection, just like HDMI carries HDCP.



That's true, but at least there's a manageable content stream available from that port. Neither D* or E* even offer that type of connectivity, which I believe was getting to the root of Hook's question.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13586334
> 
> 
> My wife was commenting on these problems as well. She observed them on a number of different channels last night. I watched only briefly last night, but I did note that Wheel of Fortune locked up long enough to miss the entire "bonus round" puzzle. And for a little while, we were getting audio along with a blank gray screen.



Well, maybe it is TW but I do know that the Fox 8 issue was everywhere.


Since I don't watch hardly anything live it's hard for me to say, but I do know that last night or the night before I had turned on the news upstairs after it froze on FOX HD. It was working fine then and I had to change channels to get my downstairs tv back up to where they were currently.


Now I hate to defend a cable company but lets face it this conversion stuff is on going and it's going to cause some problems. No doubt if it is TW, that's the reason.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13561303
> 
> 
> Remember 0x00 means programs can be freely transferred between other TiVos and PC's on your network. They can also be archived digitally via PC. 0x02 means programs can be recorded and played back, but cannot be transferred to another TiVo or PC.
> 
> 
> There is some good news-- all broadcast HD feeds are 0x00, but probably only because the FCC says so.
> 
> 
> If you have any questions about the post-rebuild lineup or anything else just let me know. If you want the original Excel file PM me. Thanks.



MO,


A couple of questions from a new guy .. I've read through a bunch of this thread, and I think I understand things .. but just to be sure before I take the plunge completely (looking to build out mythtv throughout the house):


Is it a correct assumption that 0x00 channels should be available as firewire feeds on a FW enabled STB? Is that the breakdown .. 0x00 through firewire, but 0x02 not?


Also, it's my understanding that 0x00 does NOT equate to QAM in the clear. In otherwords, I shouldn't expect to pull all these 0x00 directly with a QAM tuner (say HDHomerun) without a STB. Is this right? Or can I QAM the 0x00 directly?


Thanks for your time, effort and help.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danwv* /forum/post/13584525
> 
> 
> 
> edit: STOHD is having a few issues but not nearly as bad as CBS or Fox.



Well the Indians game was all I was watching last night (SD via E*) and they cut away to Cheif Wahoo logo flanked by "HD" side-boxdes at least twice (and the audio dropped down to telco qualilty). The gremlins must have been out in force last night. There was a lot of pixillation and audio drop-outs (however the commercials wee 100% fine). They even announced that the "guys in the truck" were having some technical problems. It appeard to me that the problem was between the stadium and the STO master control, so I presume those of you watching on cable or D* saw the same thing.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13590619
> 
> 
> Well the Indians game was all I was watching last night (SD via E*) and they cut away to Cheif Wahoo logo flanked by "HD" side-boxdes at least twice (and the audio dropped down to telco qualilty). The gremlins must have been out in force last night. There was a lot of pixillation and audio drop-outs (however the commercials wee 100% fine). They even announced that the "guys in the truck" were having some technical problems. It appeard to me that the problem was between the stadium and the STO master control, so I presume those of you watching on cable or D* saw the same thing.



The cameras are backhauled over fiber to WKYC where the program is switched for STO. I'm guessing they had trouble with the fiber backhaul.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13591707
> 
> 
> The cameras are backhauled over fiber to WKYC where the program is switched for STO. I'm guessing they had trouble with the fiber backhaul.



They fibered the cameras from Los Angeles to Cleveland ?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13591939
> 
> 
> They fibered the cameras from Los Angeles to Cleveland ?



DOH! I forgot it was an away game.







_Never mind._


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13591939
> 
> 
> They fibered the cameras from Los Angeles to Cleveland ?



Wow, that would be one hell of a cable. And can you imagine what would happen if someone cut it accidentally?


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13586572
> 
> 
> This comes from being "in the know" about the eSATA port:
> 
> 
> "You can hook up an external hard drive, but the DCT will format it to the DCT. It will not allow you to record to a specific HD and you cannot take that drive and hook it to another DCT or to a PC. All it does is increase capacity on the particular box it is mated to."
> 
> 
> The last I knew, Comcast was still the ad rep for Armstrong. I believe Comcast handles traffic for Armstrong's local commercials.
> 
> 
> The only thing I noticed between the PACE and Motorola was the PQ was much better on the DVI connector. I ended up using the component cables on the Motorola because the picture looked washed out. The PACE looked good over DVI. Also the PACE has more storage.



Thank you for the reply. So the eSata port IS active? Cool.


What's the size of the PACE box? It doesn't say on Armstrong's site. And are the DVR functions similar? I know the Moto box has a lot of enemies, but since it's really the only DVR I've ever known (I've purposefully stayed away from the TiVO because I don't know what I'm missing), I've been OK with it. But if the size is bigger, the eSata is active, and it's better from a functional standpoint, I may have to develop a "problem" with one of the Moto boxes and ask for an exchange...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13593381
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply. So the eSata port IS active? Cool.
> 
> 
> What's the size of the PACE box? It doesn't say on Armstrong's site. And are the DVR functions similar? I know the Moto box has a lot of enemies, but since it's really the only DVR I've ever known (I've purposefully stayed away from the TiVO because I don't know what I'm missing), I've been OK with it. But if the size is bigger, the eSata is active, and it's better from a functional standpoint, I may have to develop a "problem" with one of the Moto boxes and ask for an exchange...



e-Sata works with TW SA 8300, however when I used it I noticed it was what was responsible for my getting partial recordings. When disconnected I didn't have that problem.


But who can live with only 20 hours HD time?


I used the then "approved" Matrex 300gb box for the SA 8300.


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13593381
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply. So the eSata port IS active? Cool.
> 
> 
> What's the size of the PACE box? It doesn't say on Armstrong's site. And are the DVR functions similar? I know the Moto box has a lot of enemies, but since it's really the only DVR I've ever known (I've purposefully stayed away from the TiVO because I don't know what I'm missing), I've been OK with it. But if the size is bigger, the eSata is active, and it's better from a functional standpoint, I may have to develop a "problem" with one of the Moto boxes and ask for an exchange...



It has the same footprint as the Motorola. Maybe a little thinner.


----------



## TYTONK

Lost ABC 5.1 (QAM tuner) last night (TWC in Twinsburg) and still not back this morning. 5.1 is missing from the channel list. Anyone else have this happen to them? I have been having the same problems as everyone else with the local HD channels ( Lock-ups, pixillation, and audio drop-outs).


----------



## paulmike3

While we're on the STO subject, I just got TWC to credit me a significant chunk of this months bill, because STOHD took over channel 798, where the Cavs are normally broadcast in HD. That means, I got screwed out of the last 3 FSO HD Cavs games of the season.


Freaking TWC. :\\


----------



## rick490

We got the new lineup today in New Phila. There are a couple issues, though. WBNX-HD is missing from the guide on 407. Our TV Land is showing color bars. Also, checking on the the diagnostics screen 1611, our new "repeat of analog" channels like sci-fi (51) and sci-fi (224) are both analog.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13596240
> 
> 
> While we're on the STO subject, I just got TWC to credit me a significant chunk of this months bill, because STOHD took over channel 798, where the Cavs are normally broadcast in HD. That means, I got screwed out of the last 3 FSO HD Cavs games of the season.
> 
> 
> Freaking TWC. :\\




I think they did you a favor.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13596962
> 
> 
> I think they did you a favor.



if by favor, you mean a $30 credit, then yes... But since I rarely watch anything but the Cavs and Tribe, I still feel I got screwed... If they would have realigned the channels before the start of the baseball season, this wouldn't be an issue....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13597920
> 
> 
> if by favor, you mean a $30 credit, then yes... But since I rarely watch anything but the Cavs and Tribe, I still feel I got screwed... If they would have realigned the channels before the start of the baseball season, this wouldn't be an issue....



Actually I'm very surprised they did that. Now maybe I'm upset too and I'll give them a call.


----------



## jtscherne

Yeah, but you're upset because they're not putting the Dodgers on the channel!


:-~


----------



## sabhain

Hook,


You seem to have the best grasp of dealing with TWC in the thread. Can you recommend the best course of action for someone looking to obtain a Firewire enabled box, per FCC regs?


I swapped out last weekend by picking up at Garfield Heights, and they told me that they thought this was a firewire enabled box .. but it's all disabled.


SA8300HDC, HD DVR.


Thanks for your recommendation!


----------



## beaver2672

Not sure if this belongs in this thread. I was driving home today and saw that Armstrong is pulling fiber ALL OVER Medina. They are doing the pulls now by the break-out-boxes that convert the fiber to copper. Could this be the beginning of Armstrong's copper-over-glass campaign in Medina?


----------



## Michael P 2341

Here is the news all E* subs have been waiting for:

(from DBS Talk )


HD Locals Launching in Cleveland, OH

Programming Changes/Additions: 4/7/2008 5:16 PM

Effective Thursday, April 10, 2008 by 6:00 a.m. ET, DISH Network will launch the ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX in high definition (HD) into the Cleveland, OH locals package at no additional programming charge.


Customers must subscribe to a dishHD programming package or pay the HD enabling fee in order to receive the HD local channels as a part of their local programming package. Additionally, customers must have a dishHD receiver and an antenna pointed at the 61.5 orbital location.


Station Affiliation DISH Network Chnl # Local Chnl # Satellite

WEWS ABC 5200 5 61.5

WOIO CBS 5201 19 61.5

WKYC NBC 5202 3 61.5

WJW FOX 5203 8 61.5


----------



## JoeySR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/13595732
> 
> 
> Lost ABC 5.1 (QAM tuner) last night (TWC in Twinsburg) and still not back this morning. 5.1 is missing from the channel list. Anyone else have this happen to them? I have been having the same problems as everyone else with the local HD channels ( Lock-ups, pixillation, and audio drop-outs).



5.1 is also lost in Burton as of last night.....


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13600383
> 
> 
> I swapped out last weekend by picking up at Garfield Heights, and they told me that they thought this was a firewire enabled box .. but it's all disabled.
> 
> 
> SA8300HDC, HD DVR.



What are you plugging the firewire port into? I've used firewire on 8300HD boxes.


----------



## GregF2

I am in same boat - no more Cavs in HD, because Amherst has not had the realignment yet. I don't want a credit, just the Cavs in HD. TW is on the their last leg with me and I can't believe that I have stayed with them this long. Few HD channels and screw ups like this. They could care less about their customer base. TW is pathetic!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13596240
> 
> 
> While we're on the STO subject, I just got TWC to credit me a significant chunk of this months bill, because STOHD took over channel 798, where the Cavs are normally broadcast in HD. That means, I got screwed out of the last 3 FSO HD Cavs games of the season.
> 
> 
> Freaking TWC. :\\


----------



## stuart628

yep head on over to satelliteguys.us and you will see in the uplink report Cleveland HD locals became available through Dish Network....you need a 61.5 satellite, and subscribe to a HD package, by the way I have them up with OTA and cable and they look great, no difference that I have seen yet. All colors look good, picture is really sharp with no audio delay or lip sync issues (usually plags HD locals when they go up)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13600383
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> You seem to have the best grasp of dealing with TWC in the thread. Can you recommend the best course of action for someone looking to obtain a Firewire enabled box, per FCC regs?
> 
> 
> I swapped out last weekend by picking up at Garfield Heights, and they told me that they thought this was a firewire enabled box .. but it's all disabled.
> 
> 
> SA8300HDC, HD DVR.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your recommendation!



Sorry, can't help you on that. I've never dealt with firewire enabled boxes.


I


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13601666
> 
> 
> What are you plugging the firewire port into? I've used firewire on 8300HD boxes.



Mythtv.


Per FCC regulations, cable company must supply Firewire-enabled STB upon request, and such STB must make mpeg streams available to the firewire port for certain content. There ARE limits to it .. but I believe the firewire streaming should provide all channels that are CCI 0x00.


Another big reason to use firewire enabled STB is that it enables mythtv to switch the channels on the STB without an IR blaster. So even when capturing off say the S-Video port (SD only) .. you can use the firewire to switch the channels.


With the 5c stuff .. it's all a little limited, as you can't yet capture HD signals off component sources .. but at a minimum the local HD channels that can be grabbed OTA MUST BE AVAILABLE via the firewire port .. per FCC regs.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13602036
> 
> 
> Sorry, can't help you on that. I've never dealt with firewire enabled boxes.
> 
> 
> I



Would you say that the customer service contact you have is a good place to start in getting past the folks reading the standard call sheets at the 800 number?


It's a thing where I can't get past the new guy at the desk because they simply don't understand what I'm asking for.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13602603
> 
> 
> Mythtv.
> 
> 
> Per FCC regulations, cable company must supply Firewire-enabled STB upon request, and such STB must make mpeg streams available to the firewire port for certain content. There ARE limits to it .. but I believe the firewire streaming should provide all channels that are CCI 0x00.
> 
> 
> Another big reason to use firewire enabled STB is that it enables mythtv to switch the channels on the STB without an IR blaster. So even when capturing off say the S-Video port (SD only) .. you can use the firewire to switch the channels.
> 
> 
> With the 5c stuff .. it's all a little limited, as you can't yet capture HD signals off component sources .. but at a minimum the local HD channels that can be grabbed OTA MUST BE AVAILABLE via the firewire port .. per FCC regs.



Or you could get a HD TiVo and you would be able to move those local HD channels via ethernet or wireless network.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13602630
> 
> 
> Or you could get a HD TiVo and you would be able to move those local HD channels via ethernet or wireless network.



Yes .. but my objective is a little more real-time and progressive than just being able to move recordings onto other PC's.


It remains to be seen if it is in fact feasible, but what I'm trying to do is set up a core mythtv server that all TV's in the house use. Every TV in the house would share the same DVR .. so you can record from anyone of the sets .. and all of the sets can playback the recordings .. so if you're in the basement watching a show and want to retire to the bedroom, you can pick it up there because the whole house is on one big (TB or more storage) DVR.


The other benefit of a system like mythtv is that you can integrate your entire digital library with it .. so all of your movies are available at any set with the push of a button on the remote .. in the house VOD I guess.


It's a tinkerer's project at this point. That much I've learned already. In about 2 months there will be an HD capable capture card that can grab the HD signals off of component inputs. Priced about where the TiVO HD would be .. and can feed into the mythtv system.


Cost wise, the firewire ports seem to me to be the best option if I can squeeze an FCC compliant STB or two from TWC.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TV21CHIEF* /forum/post/13595653
> 
> 
> It has the same footprint as the Motorola. Maybe a little thinner.










I guess I should have been more precise. I meant, what's the size of the hard drive in the Pace box?


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13589234
> 
> 
> MO,
> 
> 
> A couple of questions from a new guy .. I've read through a bunch of this thread, and I think I understand things .. but just to be sure before I take the plunge completely (looking to build out mythtv throughout the house):
> 
> 
> Is it a correct assumption that 0x00 channels should be available as firewire feeds on a FW enabled STB? Is that the breakdown .. 0x00 through firewire, but 0x02 not?
> 
> 
> Also, it's my understanding that 0x00 does NOT equate to QAM in the clear. In otherwords, I shouldn't expect to pull all these 0x00 directly with a QAM tuner (say HDHomerun) without a STB. Is this right? Or can I QAM the 0x00 directly?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time, effort and help.



I wish I could help you out with some of your questions however I can only guess about FireWire/QAM with the CCI byte. 0x00 should be able to pass through the FireWire with no problems. 0x02 will most likely not. As far as the QAM, there is a list floating around here that gives the channels available on TW and their cooresponding numbers. From what I remember, every 0x00 channel does not have a QAM channel. Sorry I can't give you any solid info!


----------



## sabhain

Just as an FYI, this is what I'm chasing here.


The FCC has passed a regulation that if you are in the united states,

and you have a HD subscription and a HD cable box, they have to on your

request replace or upgrade your cable box with working FireWire.


See: URL:http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_p...C-03-225A1.pdf 


Page 50, section 4

(4) Cable operators shall:

(i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any

leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional

IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394

interface or upgrade the customer's set-top box by download or other

means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional."


Seems like an easy request to comply to, I would think .. I just need to find the right tech support individual to make it happen.


----------



## terryfoster

^ Just call TWC and have them bring out every HD box model they carry so you can find the box with the active firewire port. It sounds easy, but while HD is a small subset of their customers, ones that want an active firewire port can likely be counted on one hand. So knowledgeable staff is even more difficult to find on this subject.


Your best chance is to call TWC during the day. Insist they escalate your call to a second level tech or better to discuss the firewire port. The techs you want to talk to usually work the 8-5 hours (from my experience).


----------



## edjrwinnt

Good luck sabhain. Even if you find a HD box with a firewire port chances are it will have video and audio dropouts. I just swapped out a 8300 STB that had constant audio and video dropouts every 5-10 seconds for another 8300 STB that does it every 20-30 seconds. I use to have the same problems with the Motorola Boxes too from Comcast and Time Warner. I think out of about 6 boxes I've tried overall, only one or two didn't have constant audio and video dropouts. I've only used one device connected via firewire, a JVC 40000 DVHS, but I doubt that device is the reason for the video and audio dropouts. I may try using my HTPC to be sure.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13603129
> 
> 
> Just as an FYI, this is what I'm chasing here.
> 
> 
> The FCC has passed a regulation that if you are in the united states,
> 
> and you have a HD subscription and a HD cable box, they have to on your
> 
> request replace or upgrade your cable box with working FireWire.
> 
> 
> See: URL:http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_p...C-03-225A1.pdf
> 
> 
> Page 50, section 4
> 
> (4) Cable operators shall:
> 
> (i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any
> 
> leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional
> 
> IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394
> 
> interface or upgrade the customer's set-top box by download or other
> 
> means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional."
> 
> 
> Seems like an easy request to comply to, I would think .. I just need to find the right tech support individual to make it happen.




Perfect. Now is the time to play the Steve Fry card. Send a professional letter (Dear Mr. Fry,


According to FCC regulations your company is required....etc. etc (then show link and copy of the actual law) and they have not provided this to me despite my request.)


Send this link to [email protected] I guarantee you will get what you want.


----------



## Rbuchina

Goodbye TWC and back to DISH Network for me. I have been waiting for the HD locals to make it to Cleveland Dish Network so I could drop my TWC sevice down to cable modem only. I would have moved to D* but I have friends who have had some trouble with CS. I was originally an E* subscriber going back to when E* had less than 50,000 subs. I was always happy with the service and only moved to TWC (Comcast at the time) to get high speed cable modem in the house.


Ray




> Quote:
> Here is the news all E* subs have been waiting for:
> 
> (from DBS Talk)
> 
> 
> HD Locals Launching in Cleveland, OH
> 
> Programming Changes/Additions: 4/7/2008 5:16 PM
> 
> Effective Thursday, April 10, 2008 by 6:00 a.m. ET, DISH Network will launch the ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX in high definition (HD) into the Cleveland, OH locals package at no additional programming charge.
> 
> 
> Customers must subscribe to a dishHD programming package or pay the HD enabling fee in order to receive the HD local channels as a part of their local programming package. Additionally, customers must have a dishHD receiver and an antenna pointed at the 61.5 orbital location.
> 
> 
> Station Affiliation DISH Network Chnl # Local Chnl # Satellite
> 
> WEWS ABC 5200 5 61.5
> 
> WOIO CBS 5201 19 61.5
> 
> WKYC NBC 5202 3 61.5
> 
> WJW FOX 5203 8 61.5


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13604534
> 
> 
> Perfect. Now is the time to play the Steve Fry card. Send a professional letter (Dear Mr. Fry,
> 
> 
> According to FCC regulations your company is required....etc. etc (then show link and copy of the actual law) and they have not provided this to me despite my request.)
> 
> 
> Send this link to [email protected] I guarantee you will get what you want.



Thanks for that. I've made one last inquiry directly through CS, and then I'll play the Fry card tomorrow if nothing changes. I'll keep you posted.


For anyone looking to kill time, here's a link that demonstrates the kind of setup that I'm after here long term. The MCE end of things is secondary .. I'm mainly working on best utilizing the TWC feeds into MythTV at the moment:

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Screenshots


----------



## mgd6912

I am in the Canton area and last night the game was listed on channel 436 which is FSNHD. I went there to watch the game and the channel said "the Blujackets game is blacked out due to NHL blackout rules" or something to that effect. So I called TWC CS and he said he went to a tv in the place and its on there. I told him what my screen was saying and he said "Well that is weird". I was like yeah.. it is. I was able to watch the cavs game in HD before the channel realignment, i wonder if this has something to the that?? Does anyone else in the Canton area have issues with watching the cavs game on channel 436? Thanks!

mgd


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/13595732
> 
> 
> Lost ABC 5.1 (QAM tuner) last night (TWC in Twinsburg) and still not back this morning. 5.1 is missing from the channel list. Anyone else have this happen to them? I have been having the same problems as everyone else with the local HD channels ( Lock-ups, pixillation, and audio drop-outs).



Lost it in University Heights as well. Wife called and told me that std def 5 looks terrible as well. Also said that CBS std def (4) is bad but HD (19-1) is ok. Same on Channel 3. HD is ok Std is poor. I don't know about Fox.


----------



## rick490

I'm not in the Canton area, but I'm close in New Phila, and we had the game on 436, just fine. I would say there's a glitch in the programming for the Canton area.


----------



## jtscherne

Directv has added WBNX-DT to its locals. I just discovered it by accident tonight and I haven't seen it mentioned anyplace else. I've got Smallville on right now and it looks great!



Channel 43 is not yet available in HD from D*.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13570083
> 
> 
> If you think about it, jot down the callsign from the license plate. I'd be interested in looking it up.



Wouldn't you know, right after I posted that car was not seen again...until today. "K8MR"


BTW: FOX 8 had troubles again last night during the 10 PM news. This time I believe I caught wat is going on. PSIP data errors! Everything was fine until I switched the channel during a commercial, when I went back "8-1 not found". Even though I had 125 signal strength. I tried a rescan on rf ch 31, it found the signal but no PSIP data.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13611148
> 
> 
> Wouldn't you know, right after I posted that car was not seen again...until today. "K8MR"
> 
> 
> BTW: FOX 8 had troubles again last night during the 10 PM news. This time I believe I caught wat is going on. PSIP data errors! Everything was fine until I switched the channel during a commercial, when I went back "8-1 not found". Even though I had 125 signal strength. I tried a rescan on rf ch 31, it found the signal but no PSIP data.



It happened this morning as well. Temporary freeze up. They do seem to be having some problems. Anyone tried to shoot out an email their way? I'll give it a go.


----------



## Fancy Shmancy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13600925
> 
> 
> Here is the news all E* subs have been waiting for:
> 
> 
> HD Locals Launching in Cleveland, OH
> 
> Programming Changes/Additions: 4/7/2008 5:16 PM
> 
> Effective Thursday, April 10, 2008 by 6:00 a.m. ET, DISH Network will launch the ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX in high definition (HD) into the Cleveland, OH locals package at no additional programming charge.
> 
> 
> Customers must subscribe to a dishHD programming package or pay the HD enabling fee in order to receive the HD local channels as a part of their local programming package. Additionally, customers must have a dishHD receiver and an antenna pointed at the 61.5 orbital location.
> 
> 
> Station Affiliation DISH Network Chnl # Local Chnl # Satellite
> 
> WEWS ABC 5200 5 61.5
> 
> WOIO CBS 5201 19 61.5
> 
> WKYC NBC 5202 3 61.5
> 
> WJW FOX 5203 8 61.5



I'm not very up-to-date on all the satellite connections, so I was wondering if anyone could help me sort out this locals in HD business.


Now I see that Cleveland just got 3, 5, 8, and 19 out into HD, but even after a reboot I'm not seeing them in HD, just grainy SD still.










[apple commercial, in proper 4:3 on my widescreen so that the black bars are on the side. that background should be as black as the sides. local channel 19; craptasticly downgraded from HD. this is why i want my locals in HD, stat, lol.]



I have the E* ViP722 HD DVR, I believe a DISH1000 dish with 3 receiver nodes on it, and I believe I'm pointed at 110 & 119 for SD and 129 for HD. I just got E* at the tail end of '07, probably around October. Also, I am paying the extra 5 a month to get the locals 'cause I don't get any OTA reception here in Kent.


So I guess what I'm getting at is two things:


Is 61.5 a satellite I need to be pointed at to get the locals in HD?

(I believe this is the case)


And if so, is E* going to be putting the local HDs onto 129 so that I can actually see it?, or am I supposed to be doing something to get pointed at 61.5 (which I can only assume is an older satellite or part of an older system)?


Any help or advice is much appreciated.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fancy Shmancy* /forum/post/13613317
> 
> 
> I'm not very up-to-date on all the satellite connections, so I was wondering if anyone could help me sort out this locals in HD business.
> 
> 
> Now I see that Cleveland just got 3, 5, 8, and 19 out into HD, but even after a reboot I'm not seeing them in HD, just grainy SD still.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [apple commercial, in proper 4:3 on my widescreen so that the black bars are on the side. that background should be as black as the sides. local channel 19; craptasticly downgraded from HD. this is why i want my locals in HD, stat, lol.]
> 
> 
> 
> I have the E* ViP722 HD DVR, I believe a DISH1000 dish with 3 receiver nodes on it, and I believe I'm pointed at 110 & 119 for SD and 129 for HD. I just got E* at the tail end of '07, probably around October. Also, I am paying the extra 5 a month to get the locals 'cause I don't get any OTA reception here in Kent.
> 
> 
> So I guess what I'm getting at is two things:
> 
> *Is 61.5 a satellite I need to be pointed at to get the locals in HD?
> 
> (I believe this is the case)*
> 
> *And if so, is E* going to be putting the local HDs onto 129 so that I can actually see it?, or am I supposed to be doing something to get pointed at 61.5 (which I can only assume is an older satellite or part of an older system)?*
> 
> 
> Any help or advice is much appreciated.



The new Cleveland Local's that E* added yesterday can only be seen on satellite 61.5.


If you want to see them, you will have to get another dish on your roof in addition to what you already have. 61.5 is apx 70° apart from the other satellite locations and the LNB's on your existing dish most likely won't be able to pickup 61.5.


Typically an install includes pointing at either 129 or 61.5 and not both as most channels that are on 129 are on 61.5 also. That is except Lil's's and RSN's. Local's are on 61.5 and 129! Meaning that if you want to maintain the RSN's, (STO and FSN) you need to have 129 operational too. I believe it's in E*s future plans to move or mirror the RSN's on 61.5, but as of now they are only shown on 129.


You will have to consult the Dish Forums for detailed future plans, but this is my best interpretation of what's going on.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13605630
> 
> 
> Thanks for that. I've made one last inquiry directly through CS, and then I'll play the Fry card tomorrow if nothing changes. I'll keep you posted.



Update: I've been pursuing this through the email CS, and some progress has been made. I did a reboot of the box, an when it came back up, some of the 1394 settings were changed from DISABLED to {whatever} .. but not all. So it would appear that I'm in contact with someone that knows a little about this. Working through whether or not the FW feed is really there now ..


On a related note, do we know for certain that TWC will be updating the STB software to something other than SARA with the lineup change? I've searched through this, and there appears to be some indication that they will be pushing Mystro down to the STB's .. does anyone have a firm understanding of what will happen to the SA8300HDC's with the lineup change .. they must update the software to some degree, right?


This will help me decide how much to fiddle with this now, vs waiting a {few days / weeks} for the {rumored} reconfiguration. BTW, I'm in Cleveland Suburbs 1.


Thanks.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13614418
> 
> 
> Update: I've been pursuing this through the email CS, and some progress has been made. I did a reboot of the box, an when it came back up, some of the 1394 settings were changed from DISABLED to {whatever} .. but not all. So it would appear that I'm in contact with someone that knows a little about this. Working through whether or not the FW feed is really there now ..
> 
> 
> On a related note, do we know for certain that TWC will be updating the STB software to something other than SARA with the lineup change? I've searched through this, and there appears to be some indication that they will be pushing Mystro down to the STB's .. does anyone have a firm understanding of what will happen to the SA8300HDC's with the lineup change .. they must update the software to some degree, right?
> 
> 
> This will help me decide how much to fiddle with this now, vs waiting a {few days / weeks} for the {rumored} reconfiguration. BTW, I'm in Cleveland Suburbs 1.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I think they are doing the lineups separately from the software. I have the new lineup, have had it for a few weeks now, and our SA8300HD is still running Navigator. The other non-HD pioneer boxes both have Mystro though.


----------



## HD MM

Congratulations goes out to E* for finally getting their HD Cleveland locals. (WKYC, WEWS, WJW and WOIO). This is great news for Cleveland and HD subs in general.


I've also added WBNX-HD to the D* HD list.


See revised Cleveland HD Channel List by Provider Link in my signature below.


----------



## smoti17

An alternative to firewire for getting clear QAM channels into a MythTV box would be an HD-Homerun box or similar, which can pump them out as streams on Ethernet. This does not of course help for encrypted channels.


If I've understood correctly, STBs should treat encrypted QAM channels with CCI=0x00 the same as clear QAM channels in terms of what they output via their digital (firewire/HDMI/ether/etc) port(s), but just because TWC always set CCI=0x02 for encrypted channels does not mean that other combinations of encrypted/clear and CCI values are impossible.


If only Homerun/MythTV boxes would take cablecards...


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13616031
> 
> 
> An alternative to firewire for getting clear QAM channels into a MythTV box would be an HD-Homerun box or similar, which can pump them out as streams on Ethernet. This does not of course help for encrypted channels.



In my master plan, I'm going to add an HDHomerun to double up on the OTA / HD channels that are available. Next week, I'm borrowing a friend's QAM tuner card to get an idea of what if any of the SD digitals are clear QAM. I'm not optimistic.


> Quote:
> If I've understood correctly, STBs should treat encrypted QAM channels with CCI=0x00 the same as clear QAM channels in terms of what they output via their digital (firewire/HDMI/ether/etc) port(s), but just because TWC always set CCI=0x02 for encrypted channels does not mean that other combinations of encrypted/clear and CCI values are impossible.



Right .. I think the STB via 1394 should output all 0x00 channels to the port. The benefit here is that the PVR doesn't need to encode the signals .. they are native MPEG streams that can just be copied to the HD/Raid directly.


The other real benefit of the 1394 setup is the ability to change channels on the STB and control the STB directly from the PC. Then you're not fighting IR blasters .. the latency is a bit better .. etc. If you can get control of the box, at a minimum, you can capture the S-Video out and you'll get all the channels. For the non-HD digitals, this should be pretty good.



> Quote:
> If only Homerun/MythTV boxes would take cablecards...



Right you are. The ATI thing is the only cablecard tuner device currently available, but it shackles you to a specific M$ winblows vista box in order to use it. No hope for Sage / Mythtv.


I'd be happy if I could just go out and buy my own non-DVR HD set top box and then lease the cablecard. This was the FCC's intent when they forced the cable companies to use cablecard .. but the manufacturers of the boxes have colluded w/ the providers to prevent us from obtaining them.


The pain about all this is that it's setup to prevent piracy, moneymaking schemes .. etc. But the end effect of it is that it's holding the rest of us back from having REALLY cool home media setups without spending a fortune.


There may be good news coming soon on the HD end of things: Hauppage is supposedly preparing to market an HD-PVR capture card that captures HD streams off of component inputs. Still no DVI / HDMI .. but it's a step in the right direction. I'll be interested in seeing if it actually happens or not.


----------



## paule123

Anybody else on D* getting the Tribe game in HD? I don't have a 657-1 in my guide, and tuning 657 gives me a 4:3 SD picture on my HR20.


Edit: Nevermind, I got it. Wasn't in my favorites list yet.


----------



## HDTD

Has WKYC joined the sad fraternity of stations such as WEWS with bad lip sync?


Seems like this past week has been really really bad.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/13620797
> 
> 
> Has WKYC joined the sad fraternity of stations such as WEWS with bad lip sync?
> 
> 
> Seems like this past week has been really really bad.



I haven't noticed that yet but still no High Def WEWS. Anybody know anything?..I'm using a QAM tuner.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/13620797
> 
> 
> Has WKYC joined the *sad fraternity* of stations such as *WEWS with bad lip sync*?
> 
> 
> Seems like this past week has been really really bad.



WEWS is a tech nightmare. Tonight's Wheel and Jeopardy on HD were a disaster. It looks like they had that frame rate problem again, causing a jerky/choppy flickering effect. It almost looked like an old film. Then I switched to SD and it was bad too. There was a popping sound in the background and shaky picture. This only happened during the show, NOT the commercials. What, are they recording their syndicated shows on a Betamax machine with a used, 30 year old tape?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13616353
> 
> 
> In my master plan, I'm going to add an HDHomerun to double up on the OTA / HD channels that are available. Next week, I'm borrowing a friend's QAM tuner card to get an idea of what if any of the SD digitals are clear QAM. I'm not optimistic.



I have a pcHDTV HD5500 card in my Myth box - can get a decent chunk of the unencrypted QAM channels, but it took a lot of fiddling to figure out where all of the channels were. (Diagnostics screen on my SA8300 helped a lot.) I hear the newest MythTV version makes this a bit easier to figure out. I haven't messed with it since the channel layout changed, but I need to update the software anyway...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13616353
> 
> 
> Right .. I think the STB via 1394 should output all 0x00 channels to the port. The benefit here is that the PVR doesn't need to encode the signals .. they are native MPEG streams that can just be copied to the HD/Raid directly.



There are other ways to get basically the same result. The HD5500 dumps the ATSC or QAM stream right onto the PCI bus, which shows up as (IIRC) /dev/dvb/something that can be written directly to disk after it's tuned in. I also have a Hauppauge WinPVR-150 card that dumps out an MPEG stream from an analog channel, and an Air2PC card that only handles OTA ATSC. I can record two HD channels and one analog at the same time, and the box barely flinches.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13616353
> 
> 
> There may be good news coming soon on the HD end of things: Hauppage is supposedly preparing to market an HD-PVR capture card that captures HD streams off of component inputs. Still no DVI / HDMI .. but it's a step in the right direction. I'll be interested in seeing if it actually happens or not.



I can see a component capture card hitting the market, but it better be well-designed... Hardware combination/compression is almost a requirement - spitting out separate raw RGB streams would be asking for trouble. I don't expect a consumer-grade HDMI capture card any time soon - it would need to be HDCP-compliant to be of much use (most STB HDMI ports only work when HDCP is detected), and that introduces all kinds of issues for Linux users.


----------



## hookbill

I'm going to be turning on the news at WKYC HD in a few minutes. I honestly haven't seen any problems with any HD channels other then FOX 8 but then again FOX 8 is usually the only one I watch live.


It seems awful weird that all of a sudden all these channels are having problems and are being reported by not just TW but also OTA people as well.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13621765
> 
> 
> I don't expect a consumer-grade HDMI capture card any time soon - it would need to be HDCP-compliant to be of much use (most STB HDMI ports only work when HDCP is detected), and that introduces all kinds of issues for Linux users.



Makes me wonder if you could hook such a tuner up by using an hdmi splitter (may have to make your own?? .. or maybe Mouser has them) so that the STB senses the TV on one end of the splitter and then dumps the data out ...


The linux crowd will figure it out eventually .. but it's probably about 3+ years out.


Thanks for your reply .. sounds good to know that you were able to find the unencrypted QAM w/ a tuner card & no STB. That simplifies things a little for me.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13621117
> 
> 
> WEWS is a tech nightmare. Tonight's Wheel and Jeopardy on HD were a disaster. It looks like they had that frame rate problem again, causing a jerky/choppy flickering effect. It almost looked like an old film. Then I switched to SD and it was bad too. There was a popping sound in the background and shaky picture. This only happened during the show, NOT the commercials. What, are they recording their syndicated shows on a Betamax machine with a used, 30 year old tape?



The SD feed of WEWS on E*'s LIL's were a disaster too. THe audio was fine, but the video kept dropping frames so the picture would freeze-up every few seconds (this was observed during 20/20). HD OTA feed was fine (I don't have the correct HD receiver (MPEG 4) to get the new HD LIL's however I do have the correct 61.5 dish).


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/13620797
> 
> 
> Has WKYC joined the sad fraternity of stations such as WEWS with bad lip sync?
> 
> 
> Seems like this past week has been really really bad.



This morning the news on WKYC HD was a lipsync mess. Still don't have WEWS in HD but I haven't re-scanned either. Every tme I re-scan I get so many channels I don't want, then I have to go through each one and delete it. (Shopping and music channels) My scan typically comes up with 75 digital and 75 analog channels. I sometimes get Comedy Central PPV (79-16?) with my QAM tuner. After a few seconds and sometimes minutes it shuts off and sends me to channel 2. I have 2 STO channels now. One is the old 106-1 in HD and is on all the time now the other is 109-7 with the blue screen showing the Cavs will be playing on 4/14.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13623044
> 
> 
> This morning the news on WKYC HD was a lipsync mess. Still don't have WEWS in HD but I haven't re-scanned either. Every tme I re-scan I get so many channels I don't want, then I have to go through each one and delete it. (Shopping and music channels) My scan typically comes up with 75 digital and 75 analog channels. I sometimes get Comedy Central PPV (79-16?) with my QAM tuner. After a few seconds and sometimes minutes it shuts off and sends me to channel 2. I have 2 STO channels now. One is the old 106-1 in HD and is on all the time now the other is 109-7 with the blue screen showing the Cavs will be playing on 4/14.



OK I paid attention and actually watched and everything looked fine on WKYC HD via TWC. So either I'm getting to old to recognize that the lips arn't keeping up with the sound, OR, when I did watch I caught it at a good time.


Does anyone actually sit down and watch the local news? I never do I'm always doing something else. Now if I hear something that catches my interest I'll go and back it up and watch but other then that I've got better things to do, like posting on the AVS boards.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13623044
> 
> 
> This morning the news on WKYC HD was a lipsync mess.



I noticed the same thing. WKYC HD's news had a HORRIBLE lipsync problem. I have TWC out of N. Canton.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13622535
> 
> 
> Makes me wonder if you could hook such a tuner up by using an hdmi splitter (may have to make your own?? .. or maybe Mouser has them) so that the STB senses the TV on one end of the splitter and then dumps the data out ...



There is an HDMI capture card out there, but it does not do HDCP:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/ 


You may also find this device of interest:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7238


----------



## Nutman

Well i got an email today from Dishnetwork informing me that my local channels are now available in HD and to call and get them setup for free. So I called and they have to install a new dish because of the satellite position. So I will finally have my locals in HD on April 23rd.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nutman* /forum/post/13625377
> 
> 
> Well i got an email today from Dishnetwork informing me that my local channels are now available in HD and to call and get them setup for free. So I called and they have to install a new dish because of the satellite position. So I will finally have my locals in HD on April 23rd.



When they say "locals" does that include CW and My43?


Not that My43 matters they don't have any HD as far as I know. I'm surprised that they haven't done something with that network, it can't be getting any kind of decent ratings.


----------



## hookbill

For some reason it went to SD for a while. I see it's back in HD.


----------



## Nutman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13625478
> 
> 
> When they say "locals" does that include CW and My43?
> 
> 
> Not that My43 matters they don't have any HD as far as I know. I'm surprised that they haven't done something with that network, it can't be getting any kind of decent ratings.



The email stated ABCHD, FoxHD NBCHD and CBSHD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nutman* /forum/post/13625521
> 
> 
> The email stated ABCHD, FoxHD NBCHD and CBSHD



IMHO E* has taken way too long to do this and then they are short changing you. As I said My43 is no big deal but they should offer the CW in HD. In the Time Warner realignment, which seems to have gone to a snails pace they are now offering the CW in HD.


Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that TW is better, it's just that E* should give you all locals in HD. I believe D* is doing this now.


And speaking of the realignment, here we are in mid April just about and I can't help but notice that the old Adelphia areas still haven't been changed in the "Cleveland Suburbs" area. And I'm not seeing anyone reporting that realingment is happening anywhere.


Inundated, have they got to your area yet?


----------



## jamesco411

Ah, this is poppycock. I was all excited tonight to finally see the Tribe in HD on STO, only to learn that STO and STO-HD weren't being carried on my D* "Choice" HD package. What a bummer - Does anyone have the "Choice" package are able to pick up STO? I think I might have to upgrade to the 'Xtra' package to catch the Tribe this season...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain* /forum/post/13622535
> 
> 
> The linux crowd will figure it out eventually .. but it's probably about 3+ years out.



Unfortunately, it's not software or hardware design that will keep this (a Linux-friendly HDCP-compliant HDMI capture care) from showing up on the market - those parts are easy - it's the legal issues involved. If a company announced such a card, the MPAA would jump up and down, threatening to hold their breath until they turn blue, screaming that the card is in violation of the DMCA. Even reverse-engineering the ATI TV Wonder device to develop a Linux driver could land you in a court room. Until this stupid law is reversed, I don't have much hope...


----------



## Ben Music

Yes Hook,


We are also waiting out here in N. Ridgeville (Former Comcast) for the channel realignment. Also, Directv has added WBNX-HD (The CW-55) to their lineup, with 2 PBS-HD's soon to follow.


Ben Music


OTA W/Roter

TWC W/MOTO 2 tuner HD Box (still working great)

Tivo S3 with lots of problems

Directv HR-20 (2 HD tuner MEPG-4)

Directv HR- 10-250 (2 HD tuner MEPG-2)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jamesco411* /forum/post/13626809
> 
> 
> Ah, this is poppycock. I was all excited tonight to finally see the Tribe in HD on STO, only to learn that STO and STO-HD weren't being carried on my D* "Choice" HD package. What a bummer - Does anyone have the "Choice" package are able to pick up STO? I think I might have to upgrade to the 'Xtra' package to catch the Tribe this season...



When D* made it's deal with STO there were several areas that they would not carry it in. I don't remember if Rupert Murdock was in charge then but he probably was. Call D* and complain maybe the new owners will rethink this.


----------



## jtscherne

This is out-of-date. All Directv subscribers in the northern Ohio area can get STO. Unfortunately, you have to have one of the upper packages to get it:


With the Choice Xtra package you also get:



Sports Time Ohio (Ch. 657)

# Indians (HD Available)




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13629599
> 
> 
> When D* made it's deal with STO there were several areas that they would not carry it in. I don't remember if Rupert Murdock was in charge then but he probably was. Call D* and complain maybe the new owners will rethink this.


----------



## paule123

... and he has to pay an additional $9.99 month for "HD Access" to get the 657-1 STO HD.


----------



## hookbill

I'm back and forth between the Tribe and the Cubs/Phillies game on TBS HD. Quality of the picture on TBS HD is blowing away the pq on WKYC HD. However the Dolby 5.1 sound is strange on TBS HD. It sounds like they got everything going through all 5 speakers so it doesn't sound like true Dolby 5.1.


WKYC HD, as usual needs the back speakers boosted up.


Edit: I could just delete this post but I know some of you read it by email. Here's what happened. Hookbill, the idiot, saw on his channel guide that the tribe was on channel 3 which on my guide is just a few bars down from TBSHD. So I went there. And the picture was horrible. As it should be since I was looking at the analog converted to digital picture of WKYC, channel 3.


Upon discovering my error I then noticed that the sound was better and pq looked pretty much the same. Now I will find a rock and go crawl under it.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13629869
> 
> 
> I'm back and forth between the Tribe and the Cubs/Phillies game on TBS HD. Quality of the picture on TBS HD is blowing away the pq on WKYC HD. However the Dolby 5.1 sound is strange on TBS HD. It sounds like they got everything going through all 5 speakers so it doesn't sound like true Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> WKYC HD, as usual needs the back speakers boosted up.



I have to say I disagree on the PQ. (watching via D* HR20 on a 50" 1080p plasma) As far as detail, I give a slight nod to STO. The TBS looks worse to me because the reds are not correct - too bright or something. That and there's a really annoying low bass rumble from a microphone on the TBS feed.


Last night's STO game looked quite a bit softer than this game on WKYC right now.


On my 20" Vizio (using the built in stereo speakers) I can barely hear any commentary on the TBS game - as if the center channel were shut off in a 5.1 system. Edit: now the commentary is back.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13630014
> 
> 
> I have to say I disagree on the PQ. (watching via D* HR20 on a 50" 1080p plasma) As far as detail, I give a slight nod to STO. The TBS looks worse to me because the reds are not correct - too bright or something. That and there's a really annoying low bass rumble from a microphone on the TBS feed.
> 
> 
> Last night's STO game looked quite a bit softer than this game on WKYC right now.
> 
> 
> On my 20" Vizio (using the built in stereo speakers) I can barely hear any commentary on the TBS game - as if the center channel were shut off in a 5.1 system. Edit: now the commentary is back.



Take a look at my edited post.


----------



## hookbill

Now I'm getting sound drop offs and freeze up on TBS via TW. Going to stay with the Tribe game.


----------



## jamesco411




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13629634
> 
> 
> This is out-of-date. All Directv subscribers in the northern Ohio area can get STO. Unfortunately, you have to have one of the upper packages to get it:
> 
> 
> With the Choice Xtra package you also get:
> 
> 
> 
> Sports Time Ohio (Ch. 657)
> 
> # Indians (HD Available)





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13629638
> 
> 
> ... and he has to pay an additional $9.99 month for "HD Access" to get the 657-1 STO HD.



Yea, I've got the Choice package with HD access. The CSR told me I had to buy the MLB extra innings package, but I just checked the D* site and I would have to upgrade to Choice XTRA to catch the Tribe games on STO....what a juke....


----------



## G3VIZIO

I don't like golf but the Masters on CBS in HD outstanding!..


Edit: TIme Warner Univ Hts. QAM Tuner Channel 19-1


----------



## dmkasper

Noticed over the weekend that Armstrong in Medina added FX-HD on channel 133. I continue to be impressed with their HD lineup and willingness to expand. Can't beat watching Batman Begins in HD! Anyone have any inside scoop into what Armstrong is working on adding next? I was hoping for some VS. HD to catch the Stanley Cup Playoffs but I think that's a long shot.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I had received an email way-back-when from them first announcing their plans to expand over time. I remember seeing HGTV-HD and Food-HD for sure. It seems like thier timeline is to release one a month or so always on a Friday night.


They've also added a couple of SD channels, too, and they've been kind of glossed over in my mind. They've now got CHILL and ID and a couple of others.


I'm still hoping for Big-10 HD, though. Of courses Versus HD would be good, too.


----------



## hookbill

I noticed freeze ups again this morning. I sent an email off to them along with a link to our forum asking for the engineer to explain (yeah, that will happen)







. I told them that everyone seems to be experiencing these problems (OTA, SAT, TW). I said that I'm sure they were aware of the problem. I did that last week, let's see if I get a response.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13631650
> 
> 
> I don't like golf but the Masters on CBS in HD outstanding!..
> 
> 
> Edit: TIme Warner Univ Hts. QAM Tuner Channel 19-1



Agreed. Kudos to CBS and D* Master's Mix Channel. The PQ was indeed pristine. It was also a nice change of pace to not have a distracting station logo in the corner. This was probably a request by Augusta National. Augusta has always wanted The Masters to be as free from advertisers, network affiliation and commercials as possible.


----------



## mgd6912

I live in Louisville, Oh (near Canton) and I turned on the TV this am... and BOOM... NAVIGATOR!!! What a way to start Monday morning. This is on my SA8300 non-HD box. I didn't check my SA8300HD to see if it switched over. Hopefully it didn't because I don't think I could live with 2 pieces of bad news on this Monday!!










I am tempted to put a list together of the Pros (if any) and Cons of navigator when I'm bored just for fun. I wasn't impressed at all with my 1st encounter with navigator on a SA8300HDC. Maybe they fixed some of the issues... but I'm betting they haven't.

mgd


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/13635325
> 
> 
> I live in Louisville, Oh (near Canton) and I turned on the TV this am... and BOOM... NAVIGATOR!!! What a way to start Monday morning. This is on my SA8300 non-HD box. I didn't check my SA8300HD to see if it switched over. Hopefully it didn't because I don't think I could live with 2 pieces of bad news on this Monday!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am tempted to put a list together of the Pros (if any) and Cons of navigator when I'm bored just for fun. I wasn't impressed at all with my 1st encounter with navigator on a SA8300HDC. Maybe they fixed some of the issues... but I'm betting they haven't.
> 
> mgd



The SA8300HD didn't "get it" yet!! I've also heard from a SA8300 owner in Akron that Navigator came. They must be doing them by box model separately(the HD boxes must need extra/different data files downloaded). I get the feeling Passport will be leaving me tonight. I've already said goodbye. Time to get used to a DVR that is a POS.


EDIT: I did hear that all recordings did carry over to the new OS. I'm really surprised, considering that has been one of the things they've discussed since the realignmnet was announced.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/13635325
> 
> 
> I live in Louisville, Oh (near Canton) and I turned on the TV this am... and BOOM... NAVIGATOR!!! What a way to start Monday morning. This is on my SA8300 non-HD box. I didn't check my SA8300HD to see if it switched over. Hopefully it didn't because I don't think I could live with 2 pieces of bad news on this Monday!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am tempted to put a list together of the Pros (if any) and Cons of navigator when I'm bored just for fun. I wasn't impressed at all with my 1st encounter with navigator on a SA8300HDC. Maybe they fixed some of the issues... but I'm betting they haven't.
> 
> mgd



I saw a TW commercial on Navigator and they made it look wonderful. Do you mean they are not telling the truth?


----------



## mgd6912




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13635845
> 
> 
> I saw a TW commercial on Navigator and they made it look wonderful. Do you mean they are not telling the truth?



TWC would NEVER lie to us would they??














I also received literature in the mail saying this is the "easiest" and most "innovative" thing for the customer!! If by "easiest" they meant POS then they are right on!!


I just found out today that I may have options if Navigator on my HD box is as bad of a nightmare as the 1st time around. My issue was if I switched to Direct TV or any other satelite provider, I would have to buy a bunch of extra boxes to support all 6 of my TV's (only 1 high def). I guess they now make dual and tri band boxes so one box could support 3 different tvs. I may have to check that out if its true!


----------



## G3VIZIO

TWC on QAM tuner - 5-1 ABC HD is back on the air.


Didn't notice any lipsync issues for once...


----------



## beaver2672

I also so Armstrong added FX HD this weekend. I'm hoping they continue this roll out too. I'd really like to see Weather Channel HD, Fox Business (Which is almost a given since FX has made it on) and Food. I wish they'd add Mojo too. I always liked their concerts, though MHD does a pretty good job of making up for that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/13649776
> 
> 
> I also so Armstrong added FX HD this weekend. I'm hoping they continue this roll out too. I'd really like to see Weather Channel HD, Fox Business (Which is almost a given since FX has made it on) and Food. I wish they'd add Mojo too. I always liked their concerts, though MHD does a pretty good job of making up for that.



Man, I'm really jealous. If I could have one pick it would be FX! Damn you TW!


----------



## nickdawg

*FOX Business*? I would SERIOUSLY cancel Time Warner if they added that waste of bandwidth instead of a more worthy channel like USA HD. It already pains me enough that some of my money is going to the FOX Noise crooks.


----------



## mnowlin

Navigator hit my SA8300 some time in the last 48 hours... I did notice a few changes in the software from when I had my 8300HDC in the five minutes I played with it tonight, but don't expect miracles.


Did tell my wife that she needs to make sure all of her stuff is scheduled on the TiVo as well, just in case the Navigator problems rear up again. (I would have been nice and done it for her, but I just can't bring myself to scheduling season passes for things like Keeping up with the Kardashians (?) or any of the other dumb shows she watches... Bad enough they're going to be on *my* TiVo...







)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13652054
> 
> *FOX Business*? I would SERIOUSLY cancel Time Warner if they added that waste of bandwidth instead of a more worthy channel like USA HD. It already pains me enough that some of my money is going to the FOX Noise crooks.



nickdawg, calm down. We said FX not Fox Business. Unless you're talking about another thread and I looked back and I didn't see that. FX has great shows, much better IMHO then USA and I do like some USA shows. FX has The Shield, Dirt, The Riches, Nip/Tuck.


So if you're talking about something else I didn't see it.










Dude, you crack me up.....sometimes.







(oh I used an old expression. Crack me up = makes me laugh - has nothing to do with the drug).


----------



## jtscherne

Sorry, Hook. You're incorrect. The original poster WAS asking for Fox Business Network.


Actually, while I don't watch Fox News (or CNN that much), I do think that Fox Business Network is very watchable at times. I think the business graphics are useful and the on-air talent tends to be, how can we say this, "easy on the eyes."


Also, Dave Ramsey is one of the few personal finance guys that I trust and he's on in the evenings.


----------



## GregF2

I agree would love to see Fox Business HD. Everyone has different opinions as I would never watch USA










Sure hope TW gets NFL Network HD by the time the Browns game airs here this year. Probably doubtful though.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13653058
> 
> 
> Sorry, Hook. You're incorrect. The original poster WAS asking for Fox Business Network.
> 
> 
> Actually, while I don't watch Fox News (or CNN that much), I do think that Fox Business Network is very watchable at times. I think the business graphics are useful and the on-air talent tends to be, how can we say this, "easy on the eyes."
> 
> 
> Also, Dave Ramsey is one of the few personal finance guys that I trust and he's on in the evenings.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/13653156
> 
> 
> I agree would love to see Fox Business HD. Everyone has different opinions as I would never watch USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure hope TW gets NFL Network HD by the time the Browns game airs here this year. Probably doubtful though.



We will be able to watch the Browns game on NFLN regardless of whether TW has NFLN or not. NFL mandates that the games be on free TV in the local markets of the two teams. So one of the local channels will pick up the game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13654785
> 
> 
> We will be able to watch the Browns game on NFLN regardless of whether TW has NFLN or not. NFL mandates that the games be on free TV in the local markets of the two teams. So one of the local channels will pick up the game.



And one of the local affiliates will also pick up the three (!) ESPN Monday Night Football games, and the Sunday Night NBC game will be on Channel 3, of course.


I presume that the four cable/satellite games will air on whatever local affiliate carries them, locally in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13653058
> 
> 
> Sorry, Hook. You're incorrect. The original poster WAS asking for Fox Business Network.
> 
> 
> Actually, while I don't watch Fox News (or CNN that much), I do think that Fox Business Network is very watchable at times. I think the business graphics are useful and the on-air talent tends to be, how can we say this, "easy on the eyes."
> 
> 
> Also, Dave Ramsey is one of the few personal finance guys that I trust and he's on in the evenings.



Oh, I see. I got so excited about the FX I didn't even see the Fox Bus HD.


Apologies nickdawg.


----------



## beaver2672




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13652054
> 
> *FOX Business*? I would SERIOUSLY cancel Time Warner if they added that waste of bandwidth instead of a more worthy channel like USA HD. It already pains me enough that some of my money is going to the FOX Noise crooks.



Well... When you're in Medina, and will soon have fiber to the curb and SDV within 6 months, they can use all the bandwidth they want. Sorry to rub it in guys.


----------



## beaver2672




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmkasper* /forum/post/13632904
> 
> 
> Noticed over the weekend that Armstrong in Medina added FX-HD on channel 133. I continue to be impressed with their HD lineup and willingness to expand. Can't beat watching Batman Begins in HD! Anyone have any inside scoop into what Armstrong is working on adding next? I was hoping for some VS. HD to catch the Stanley Cup Playoffs but I think that's a long shot.



Looks like your wish came true! VS HD got added last night ch 172. Way to go Armstrong!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/13658017
> 
> 
> Well... When you're in Medina, and will soon have fiber to the curb and *SDV within 6 months*, they can use all the bandwidth they want. Sorry to rub it in guys.





ROFLOL. I don't know who told you that but I'm sure it will take longer then that. TW has huge areas all on the same system that still isn't SDV. What makes you think Medina is special?


----------



## beaver2672




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13659300
> 
> 
> ROFLOL. I don't know who told you that but I'm sure it will take longer then that. TW has huge areas all on the same system that still isn't SDV. What makes you think Medina is special?



I have a pretty good source. It's a guy who works with Armstrong on their phone backend network.


Main fiber runs have been there for 5 years. Just have to pull the arterial runs to premises. Supposedly they're going to do that on a per-account basis.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13659300
> 
> 
> ROFLOL. I don't know who told you that but I'm sure it will take longer then that. TW has huge areas all on the same system that still isn't SDV. What makes you think Medina is special?



These smaller cable systems may actually end up being better than larger systems like Time Warner. The legacy Time Warner area in NE Ohio is already big enough. Now, Time Warner has several other areas added to that and they still haven't even changed the lineups in those areas. Once that's done, they can begin the SDV transition.


A system like Armstrong in Medina is smaller, making it cheaper and easier to install SDV(CHEAP being the key word there).


I get the feeling SDV is not too far down the road. While playing around with the Navigator diagnostics screens, I noticed several items about SDV. It said SDV was not enabled, but Navigator is the firmware that supports SDV. Once these lineup changes are done and the rest of the boxes are "Navigatored"








, SDV might not be far off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/13659361
> 
> 
> I have a pretty good source. It's a guy who works with Armstrong on their phone backend network.
> 
> 
> Main fiber runs have been there for 5 years. Just have to pull the arterial runs to premises. Supposedly they're going to do that on a per-account basis.



Oh, Armstrong. OK, highly possible they are on the move. Sorry, I thought you were talking about TW.


----------



## beaver2672




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13659774
> 
> 
> Oh, Armstrong. OK, highly possible they are on the move. Sorry, I thought you were talking about TW.



Haha no... What do u think I'm crazy? They can't even get a business class cable modem configured correctly at one of my client sites. I have no confidence in them as a company, on any front.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/13659795
> 
> 
> Haha no... What do u think I'm crazy? They can't even get a business class cable modem configured correctly at one of my client sites. I have no confidence in them as a company, on any front.



Well, then you certainly understood why I made my comment.










Armstrong looks like they are on the move. Funny I never heard about them until recently. Enjoy!


----------



## hookbill

I got the update last night. I think. Usually the channels go to the same when the reboot occurres.


Or maybe I got it last week, because I thought that the channels were both the same last week sometime. But I looked at the software version and I thought it was the old one. Maybe I've had 9.3 for at least a week!


If that's true I haven't even noticed anything different.










Oh well, I'll try and play around this weekend.


----------



## dmkasper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/13658499
> 
> 
> Looks like your wish came true! VS HD got added last night ch 172. Way to go Armstrong!!



Yeah, I saw that when I got home last night! VS HD and I also swapped my failing Moto for the Pace Tahoe. Life is good in Medina with Armstrong. Maybe I just need to keep wishing for channels on this forum. Let's see... how about HGTV HD for the wife.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmkasper* /forum/post/13662768
> 
> 
> Yeah, I saw that when I got home last night! VS HD and I also swapped my failing Moto for the Pace Tahoe. Life is good in Medina with Armstrong. Maybe I just need to keep wishing for channels on this forum. Let's see... how about HGTV HD for the wife.



How ironic... HGTV HD is one of the FEW high def stations that TWC has graced us with. Well, that is if you have been realigned. You are right though--Armstrong's channel lineup is impressive. TWC not so much.


----------



## Inundated

No, no new digital llneup here yet...and no Navigator, either. (TWC/ex-Adelphia Cleveland system, in case anyone forgot







)


But my TiVo removed the AZNTV channel from the lineup today. I seem to recall that was one of the channels actually going away with the realignment, no?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13669165
> 
> 
> But my TiVo removed the AZNTV channel from the lineup today. I seem to recall that was one of the channels actually going away with the realignment, no?



I got that message this morning on both of my TiVo's.


----------



## rick490

I'm wondering when TWC will roll out Navigator in this region for the 8300HD. Has anyone heard anything? Looking at other threads, it seems Navigator might be improving, at least for the 8300HD. Some users even like it. I hope that's the good news.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/13672126
> 
> 
> I'm wondering when TWC will roll out Navigator in this region for the 8300HD. Has anyone heard anything? Looking at other threads, it seems Navigator might be improving, at least for the 8300HD. Some users even like it. I hope that's the good news.



You must be new to this thread. The reviews on Navigator has not been good. Most SA 8300 prefer even the SARA version which IMHO was terrible.


I've heard some good things about Passport, but they are changing that as well.


My opinion is stated in my signature.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13674045
> 
> 
> You must be new to this thread. The reviews on Navigator has not been good. Most SA 8300 prefer even the SARA version which IMHO was terrible.



No, I've read them all, but it seems that in some of the later posts users are much less negative, and in some cases positive, with the 8300HD. Now the 8300HDC, that's another thing


----------



## HD MM

CNN HD, Sci-Fi HD and USA HD added to Dish Network's HD count.


----------



## GregF2

Another week, another no conversion for TW in the Amherst area. They have to be the worst - if I was not so lazy I would have already switched to satellite by now.


----------



## nickdawg

New York 1 News has been added to digital cable on channel 384. (at least in areas with the new lineup).


----------



## HD MM

Just so everyone knows, STO broadcaster Matt Underwood acknowledged the issue with tonight's Indians broadcast that is not in HD. He said during the game (in between pitches) that STO realizes that tonights and every upcoming game on STO is supposed to be in HD and the engineers are working on resolving this issue ASAP.


Kudos to STO for at least keeping the viewers informed and acknowledging the problem.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13677886
> 
> 
> Just so everyone knows, STO broadcaster Matt Underwood acknowledged the issue with tonight's Indians broadcast that is not in HD. He said during the game (in between pitches) that STO realizes that tonights and every upcoming game on STO is supposed to be in HD and the engineers are working on resolving this issue ASAP.
> 
> 
> Kudos to STO for at least keeping the viewers informed and acknowledging the problem.



Yeah, it's gotta be interesting going into a new road city every few days and having to do an HD setup for the first time. Somethin' tells me the "facilities" in the old Hubert Humphrey dome are not state of the art


----------



## Cathode Kid

Putting my ear to the rail, I hear a distant train that should arrive in Cleveland in the Tuesday-Wednesday morning timeframe.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13681509
> 
> 
> Putting my ear to the rail, I hear a distant train that should arrive in Cleveland in the Tuesday-Wednesday morning timeframe.



OK, I probably will believe that because for some reason TW/Adelphia always liked Tuesdays to do things. I don't know if anyone else ever noticed that.


But please get your head off the rail. You might get ran over with bad info.










Whose your source?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13681597
> 
> 
> OK, I probably will believe that because for some reason TW/Adelphia always liked Tuesdays to do things. I don't know if anyone else ever noticed that.
> 
> 
> But please get your head off the rail. You might get ran over with bad info.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whose your source?



A very, very good one. Can't say any more.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13681808
> 
> 
> A very, very good one. Can't say any more.



Now you don't have to say who it is. Just where do they work. Headend? A tech friend? You talked to a CSR?


The reason I ask is because I have a source and I've mentioned many times in headend. Now I haven't asked about this because I bug her too much about other stuff.


Of course if it's a CSR you get a big zero.







But if it's someone else, come on, give a clue.


Oh and techs get a big zeor as well.


If you still want to stand on the Fifth that is your right.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13681869
> 
> 
> Now you don't have to say who it is. Just where do they work. Headend? A tech friend? You talked to a CSR?
> 
> 
> The reason I ask is because I have a source and I've mentioned many times in headend. Now I haven't asked about this because I bug her too much about other stuff.
> 
> 
> Of course if it's a CSR you get a big zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if it's someone else, come on, give a clue.
> 
> 
> Oh and techs get a big zeor as well.
> 
> 
> If you still want to stand on the Fifth that is your right.



It's somebody who knows the nuts & bolts behind the move. Good enough?







Now 'scuse me while I step off the tracks. I think I hear the horn...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13678189
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's gotta be interesting going into a new road city every few days and having to do an HD setup for the first time. Somethin' tells me the "facilities" in the old Hubert Humphrey dome are not state of the art



STO had problems in Anaheim too. I wouldn't blame the facilities (that is the stadiums). Every time something goes wrong, Matt mentions the "guys in the truck". So it's the mobile "master control" that may be at fault. I doubt they use the same truck everywhere, the "truck" more than likely is a regional video production company hired out for each series.


If it was the cameras and/or wiring inside the stadiums than both teams feeds should get equally hosed when one of these glitches comes along. Thee is no way to prove this unless you somehow have access to the other team's RSN (if this was hockey that would actually be possible as NHL CI gives you both teams RSN if available).


----------



## hookbill

I'm getting all kinds of break ups via TW.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13682051
> 
> 
> STO had problems in Anaheim too. I wouldn't blame the facilities (that is the stadiums). Every time something goes wrong, Matt mentions the "guys in the truck". So it's the mobile "master control" that may be at fault. I doubt they use the same truck everywhere, the "truck" more than likely is a regional video production company hired out for each series.



The "guys in the truck" are the most visible aspect of the broadcast team (next to the camera operators) and when stuff like this happens, it's a real pressure cooker for them, especially when the event is live. A problem like this could happen anywhere in the signal chain, from the truck to the backhaul fiber provider (or satellite uplink/downlink) to the station or network's master control.

When he makes reference to the guys in the truck, it puts a human face onto a long chain of transmission points, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's their fault. I feel bad for those guys when they get blamed for stuff when they're usually working their butts off to bring us the game.


----------



## hookbill

Am I the only one experiencing these freezes during the tribe game? I hear sound drop offs as I'm typing this.


OTA, Sat people are you seeing problems?


----------



## ZManCartFan

Hook-


I only had it on for probably an inning and a half, and I was doing other things in the same room than just watching the game. But I never saw any kind of freezing through Armstrong in Medina.


----------



## paule123

Hook -

I had it on the D* SD channel 8, mostly with volume turned down doing other stuff, but when I did pay attention I did not see any freezing or hear any audio problems.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13681509
> 
> 
> Putting my ear to the rail, I hear a distant train that should arrive in Cleveland in the Tuesday-Wednesday morning timeframe.



Well, that'd sure fit with a recent statement supposedly made by Mr. Jasso...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/0...nt-update.html 



> Quote:
> TWC's Bill Jasso tells OMW that the cable operator expects to complete the digital channel moves in the Greater Cleveland area by the end of this month.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13682828
> 
> 
> Am I the only one experiencing these freezes during the tribe game? I hear sound drop offs as I'm typing this.
> 
> 
> OTA, Sat people are you seeing problems?



I watched on D* channel 8-1 (Fox HD) from the 6th inning on and didn't notice any issues besides the announcers who were awful.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13684217
> 
> 
> I watched on D* channel 8-1 (Fox HD) from the 6th inning on and didn't notice any issues besides the announcers who were awful.



OK, I saw the issues during the pregame, at the start of the game and during the bottom of the 9th. I also heard some problems when they switched to the alternate game.


It's kind of sad that everyone is so busy (me too) that we can't even sit down to watch a ball game on a Saturday!


----------



## MediaObsessions

Is anyone else still getting lipsync problems on WKYC? I thought it got better this last week but now I think they have regressed...


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13684217
> 
> 
> I watched on D* channel 8-1 (Fox HD) from the 6th inning on and didn't notice any issues besides the announcers who were awful.



I beleive one of them was Josh Lewin, who I can't stand. He likes to bring up controversial topics in what should be an otherwise relaxing baseball game. He's also got that annoying "Kent Brockman" over the top style of delivery.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13685559
> 
> 
> Is anyone else still getting lipsync problems on WKYC? I thought it got better this last week but now I think they have regressed...



This is really getting strange. I have not had any problems with the lipsync on WKYC but I'm the only one who had a problem with the Fox game yesterday.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13685471
> 
> 
> It's kind of sad that everyone is so busy (me too) that we can't even sit down to watch a ball game on a Saturday!



I was just thinking kind of the opposite. I was surprised at the number of people here who at least watched some of it. How many 75+ degree Saturdays have we had this year so far? Especially when we knew rain was on the way. And the Tribe was losing so early. And it was in Minnesota...


Ok, I know this isn't the best forum for this, but you guys are always very helpful. This is a simple question, I think, but I'm looking for a quick pointer.


I have a coax cable running from an antenna in the attic over my garage and through the rafters of my basement. The basement was recently finished off, so the cable now runs through an enclosed ceiling. Sadly, I don't know what the contractors did with the open end of the cable, as I had unhooked it after I got cable. Anyway, there is an exposed run in the unfinished space, and I would like to be able to splice into it and run it both to the OTA input of my new plasma and the FM in of a receiver.


Does anyone have any ponters as to the best way to cut this cable and splice into it? How hard is it to crimp new ends onto it? Any particular crimpers that work well?


(How's that for getting back on topic?







)


Thanks.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13685559
> 
> 
> Is anyone else still getting lipsync problems on WKYC? I thought it got better this last week but now I think they have regressed...



Watching the Weather guy with the dogs on the WKYC morning show right now and if there's a lip sync problem, I'm not really seeing it.


Watching via D* MPEG4 locals.


Edit: Ok, now I'm seeing a lip sync problem on the Tim Beres Between the Lines segment (which is SD widescreen)


Checked OTA and also lip sync problem there too.


Edit: Now that the Tom Beres SD segment is over, they went to commercial, and they are back in HD at the anchor desk, the lip sync problem seems to have gone away.


----------



## quern

Hello. Have any of you in the old Adelphia system started losing channels? I live in Mayfield Heights and I no longer get Starz HD, ESPN HD, Discovery Home, etc... I've also noticed some of my other non-hd channels have become very poor with picture quality. TLC has noise intermittently and channel 15 is really bad with noise. I called TWC and they thought it was the beginning of the channel lineup re-arrangement... until i mentioned the poor quality. Now they want to send a tech over to look at the signal. On top of this my in-laws live 1 block away and they are getting channels that we do not get any longer.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm watching right now OTA (Directv receiver) and I'm getting the lipsync issue during the pregame. It's not terrible, but it's still noticeable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/13686841
> 
> 
> Hello. Have any of you in the old Adelphia system started losing channels? I live in Mayfield Heights and I no longer get Starz HD, ESPN HD, Discovery Home, etc... I've also noticed some of my other non-hd channels have become very poor with picture quality. TLC has noise intermittently and channel 15 is really bad with noise. I called TWC and they thought it was the beginning of the channel lineup re-arrangement... until i mentioned the poor quality. Now they want to send a tech over to look at the signal. On top of this my in-laws live 1 block away and they are getting channels that we do not get any longer.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I've just had a problem with FOX 8. But as was mentioned earlier, word is the change is going to happen either Tuesday or Wednesday.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/13686841
> 
> 
> Hello. Have any of you in the old Adelphia system started losing channels? I live in Mayfield Heights and I no longer get Starz HD, ESPN HD, Discovery Home, etc... I've also noticed some of my other non-hd channels have become very poor with picture quality. TLC has noise intermittently and channel 15 is really bad with noise. I called TWC and they thought it was the beginning of the channel lineup re-arrangement... until i mentioned the poor quality. Now they want to send a tech over to look at the signal. On top of this my in-laws live 1 block away and they are getting channels that we do not get any longer.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



You need a service call for poor signal. If you're missing channels now, you'll still be missing them after the realignment.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13685605
> 
> 
> I have a coax cable running from an antenna in the attic over my garage and through the rafters of my basement. The basement was recently finished off, so the cable now runs through an enclosed ceiling. Sadly, I don't know what the contractors did with the open end of the cable, as I had unhooked it after I got cable. Anyway, there is an exposed run in the unfinished space, and I would like to be able to splice into it and run it both to the OTA input of my new plasma and the FM in of a receiver.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any ponters as to the best way to cut this cable and splice into it? How hard is it to crimp new ends onto it? Any particular crimpers that work well?



It's not hard with the right tools and connectors made for those tools. First you'll need to determine the type of cable (RG-6, RG-59) - the connectors are different for each one. Home Depot, Lowe's and similar places sell the current version of co-ax strippers and crimpers. Look for the kind that use the new compression connector. The compression connectors look different from the old-style crimp connectors - they have a colored plastic band on the connector which denotes the type. The crimper squeezes the connector from end to end, "squashing" it, rather than crimping it around the middle. This makes for a much better connection than the old style crimp-ons.


----------



## paule123

Anybody know if TBSHD is going to show next Sunday's (4/27) Indians game alongside WKYC's coverage of the same game? or will it be blacked out on TBS in this market? My D* guide has a blank spot for the 1:00 - 4:00pm time slot on TBSHD next Sunday.


Would be a nice opportunity for side by side HD PQ comparison...


----------



## jtscherne

TBS games are blacked out for home markets.


See the press release below:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13688601
> 
> 
> Anybody know if TBSHD is going to show next Sunday's (4/27) Indians game alongside WKYC's coverage of the same game? or will it be blacked out on TBS in this market? My D* guide has a blank spot for the 1:00 - 4:00pm time slot on TBSHD next Sunday.
> 
> 
> Would be a nice opportunity for side by side HD PQ comparison...



I'm not certain but my bet is it will be blacked out. Then again I do remember seeing Dodger games in L.A. televised while also appearing on TBS.


How are you going to do a "side by side" comparison. Are you going to put two HD TV's next to each other?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13688623
> 
> 
> TBS games are blacked out for home markets.
> 
> 
> See the press release below:
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releas...=.jsp&c_id=mlb



Well, once again beaten to the punch by jtscherne.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Cathode-


Thanks for the tips. I'll check out Home Depot next time I'm in there.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13688633
> 
> 
> How are you going to do a "side by side" comparison. Are you going to put two HD TV's next to each other?



DVR them both at the same time on the same D* HR20.


I see Monday night 4/28 Yankees game is on STO and ESPN at the same time -- will ESPN be blacked out here in Cleveland ?


----------



## jtscherne

I'm not sure of the current ESPN blackout rules. Last Monday's Bos/Cle game was not blacked out on ESPN and it was a home game for Cleveland. I attempted to add a recording for it and it was added, but I don't think this really proves anything.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13689696
> 
> 
> DVR them both at the same time on the same D* HR20.
> 
> 
> I see Monday night 4/28 Yankees game is on STO and ESPN at the same time -- will ESPN be blacked out here in Cleveland ?



I think the general rule is if it's being shown on a local station that it won't be shown on national television. The lifting of the black out rule on ESPN had to do with home teams being televised while they were in town. Again going back to me L.A. days it use to be that while the Dodgers were in town ESPN would not show their games. But back in those days we had very few home games televised. The Dodgers were very stingy about that and it didn't change until the 90's.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13687160
> 
> 
> It's not hard with the right tools and connectors made for those tools. First you'll need to determine the type of cable (RG-6, RG-59) - the connectors are different for each one. Home Depot, Lowe's and similar places sell the current version of co-ax strippers and crimpers. Look for the kind that use the new compression connector. The compression connectors look different from the old-style crimp connectors - they have a colored plastic band on the connector which denotes the type. The crimper squeezes the connector from end to end, "squashing" it, rather than crimping it around the middle. This makes for a much better connection than the old style crimp-ons.



You may not want to shell out the bucks for the stripping and crimping tool if you don't plan to do much more coax work. It is possible to carefully strip the cable with a sharp knife. Cut through only the outer sleeve and wire mesh, then just barely through the inner insulation to expose the middle wire about 3/8". Be very careful not to nick or cut the middle wire as that can effect your signal. Make sure there is no frayed wire mesh to fold outside or inside of the connector. The compression connector can be applied by carefully positioning two sets of vise grips on the top and bottom edges of the fitting 180 deg opposite one another and slowly and evenly squeezing to fully compress the fitting. You can then add a splitter to route to both your TV and radio. Hope this helps.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13689528
> 
> 
> Cathode-
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tips. I'll check out Home Depot next time I'm in there.



I have these tools and connectors and I live very close to you (Strongsville). If you would like to just borrow mine and save the expense of buying these tools and connectors just let me know. I also have a lot of new RG59 cable (Beldon QuadShield) if you need it.


They are very handy when needed, but for the typical homeowner they are *rarely* used.


Just let me know.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13685605
> 
> 
> I was just thinking kind of the opposite. I was surprised at the number of people here who at least watched some of it. How many 75+ degree Saturdays have we had this year so far? Especially when we knew rain was on the way. And the Tribe was losing so early. And it was in Minnesota...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Yup. Wasn't Saturday nice! I love spring! I am an early riser, so I got to enjoy the nice weather while I labored outside all morning/afternoon. In the time I was outside, I washed the cars, watered the lawn, edged all the beds, turned up the mulch in the beds and cleaned out the gutters. By the time I got in, the Cav's playoff game was over, but I did get to catch the end of the 3-0 Tribe loss.


BTW, the game looked decent on FOX.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13691162
> 
> 
> 
> Just let me know.



Toby-


I PM'd you. Thanks for the offer!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13696295
> 
> 
> Toby-
> 
> 
> I PM'd you. Thanks for the offer!!



Not a problem. There are few things I can help with, this is one of those few.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13687009
> 
> 
> I've just had a problem with FOX 8. But as was mentioned earlier, word is the change is going to happen either Tuesday or Wednesday.



I can see the headlight now. Looking through my binoculars, I think I can make out some jumbled numbers on the boxcars, as well as one with lettering of some sort... let's see... looks like... n...a...v...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13696545
> 
> 
> I can see the headlight now. Looking through my binoculars, I think I can make out some jumbled numbers on the boxcars, as well as one with lettering of some sort... let's see... looks like... n...a...v...



lol, maybe for some people but not me.










My main concern is how fast they implement SDV. From what I see in the TiVo Forums (whoops, I mean what somebody told me) it seems to be moving at a steady pace but not that fast.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13696545
> 
> 
> I can see the headlight now. Looking through my binoculars, I think I can make out some jumbled numbers on the boxcars, as well as one with lettering of some sort... let's see... looks like... n...a...v...



My 8300HD made it through another night without the awful navigator gremlins attacking it.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13697547
> 
> 
> My 8300HD made it through another night without the awful navigator gremlins attacking it.



As long as you never feed it after midnight, then you should be ok...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13697547
> 
> 
> My 8300HD made it through another night without the awful navigator gremlins attacking it.



Nickdawg, I'm not sure which system you're fed from but it's the "A" train that arrives tonight.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13687009
> 
> 
> I've just had a problem with FOX 8.



This comes up here alot. It's not Time Warner's fault for once. FOX News is garbage in more ways than one(content as well as technical). Flipping through the channels I've seen FOX force their local news into SD. Something's seriously up if they have to force SD on their own damn show. I stick with 19 Action News, not as many technical problems.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13697585
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, I'm not sure which system you're fed from but it's the "A" train that arrives tonight.



I'm on the Akron system. I am expecting it tonight because it is Tuesday(they usually do work on Tuesday).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13697582
> 
> 
> As long as you never feed it after midnight, then you should be ok...



That movie _never did_ mention what time of the day it was ok to feed them again.


----------



## hookbill

This morning both of my HDTV's had frozen pictures! One was stuck on Mash and the other something else and FOX 8 has been freezing up all morning.


I went to my music channel (413) and there was a gray screen there so I thought, it must of happened (the lineup realign). But a few seconds later I found that wasn't the case.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13697585
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, I'm not sure which system you're fed from but it's the "A" train that arrives tonight.



Well, if the train arrived it didn't show up here. Strike one.


You said Tuesday or Wednesday. So you're still at the plate.


I'd keep an eye open for the old TW curve ball.


----------



## sabhain

Well in Brecksville today at lunch and the bar there had STO relocated to channel 76 on analog .. and as of last night it was still on 17 .. so maybe the train did roll through these parts last night / this morning.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I'm done with Time Warner. After it took 4 times to get my cable card installed on my TiVoHD (4 different days from 4 different cable guys over 2-3 weeks time), they now are trying to bill me 25% more than the amount that I negotiated with them when I threatened to go to DirecTV.


I encourage anyone that lives in North Ridgeville to write to the mayor's office and/or city council requesting that we get a cable competitor in here. My fiancé already read somewhere in the local paper that many residents are complaining about Time Warner to the city of North Ridgeville. I just filled a complaint with the Better Business Bureau too.


I really feel sorry for TiVo since TiVo has to count on these local cable companies to get subscriptions.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13702690
> 
> 
> I encourage anyone that lives in North Ridgeville to write to the mayor's office and/or city council requesting that we get a cable competitor in here. My fiancé already read somewhere in the local paper that many residents are complaining about Time Warner to the city of North Ridgeville. I just filled a complaint with the Better Business Bureau too.
> 
> 
> I really feel sorry for TiVo since TiVo has to count on these local cable companies to get subscriptions.




Just to let you know cities and townships no longer control cable companies. It was changed to state regulated a few months back. This was pushed by AT&T so they could have their service in areas where deals were made by companies with communities.


----------



## quern

Hello All:


Have any of the TWC 8300HD users ever have any problems with the 8300HD going haywire and switching between sending a 1080i and 480i signal through component video? I was helping a friend set up his new projector... it works great w/ DVD via component but as far as I can tell (deductive testing) the 8300HD keeps sending different signals via component to his projector (panny pt-ax200). I went into the advanced menu and tried selecting/de-selecting outputs and couldn't resolve the problem. I've helped multiple friends set up their 8300HD and never encountered this issue.


Thanks.


----------



## Inundated

No new lineup love in the Bath/Copley end of the TWC ex-Adelphia system this morning, though STO did change (as someone mentioned) from 17 to 76 on the analog side.


Is that train coming through tonight?


If anyone DID get the digital lineup change last night (not just STO moving on analog), can you post here?


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13702777
> 
> 
> Just to let you know cities and townships no longer control cable companies. It was changed to state regulated a few months back. This was pushed by AT&T so they could have their service in areas where deals were made by companies with communities.



Thanks. I was just told the same thing by the department in North Ridgeville that handles complaints about Time Warner. She did take my name and number though, and said she would forward my complaints to the contact at Time Warner that the city of North Ridgeville has. The lady at Dennis Johnson's office, the Safety Service Director, told me that my complaints are nothing new about Time Warner. Apparently she hears them quite a bit about Time Warner.


I'm going to hit Time Warner from all angles until something is done about this. I'm still waiting for a Time Warner supervisor to call me back. A lot of people at our condo association meeting last week voiced their displeasure with Time Warner as well.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13703193
> 
> 
> Thanks. I was just told the same thing by the department in North Ridgeville that handles complaints about Time Warner. She did take my name and number though, and said she would forward my complaints to the contact at Time Warner that the city of North Ridgeville has. The lady at Dennis Johnson's office, the Safety Service Director, told me that my complaints are nothing new about Time Warner. Apparently she hears them quite a bit about Time Warner.
> 
> 
> I'm going to hit Time Warner from all angles until something is done about this. I'm still waiting for a Time Warner supervisor to call me back. A lot of people at our condo association meeting last week voiced their displeasure with Time Warner as well.


 [email protected] 


If he can't do anything, than nothing can be done!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13703193
> 
> 
> Thanks. I was just told the same thing by the department in North Ridgeville that handles complaints about Time Warner. She did take my name and number though, and said she would forward my complaints to the contact at Time Warner that the city of North Ridgeville has. The lady at Dennis Johnson's office, the Safety Service Director, told me that my complaints are nothing new about Time Warner. Apparently she hears them quite a bit about Time Warner.
> 
> 
> I'm going to hit Time Warner from all angles until something is done about this. I'm still waiting for a Time Warner supervisor to call me back. A lot of people at our condo association meeting last week voiced their displeasure with Time Warner as well.



If you want something done at TW you need to email the boss.

[email protected] 


It works for many. Do a search and you'll find many people who had problems got them taken care of. He is President of TW NEO.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13703906
> 
> 
> If you want something done at TW you need to email the boss.
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> It works for many. Do a search and you'll find many people who had problems got them taken care of. He is President of TW NEO.



At this point it's a "he said, she said" thing so I'm not too optimistic this will get resolved. I will hit them from this angle though as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13704153
> 
> 
> At this point it's a "he said, she said" thing so I'm not too optimistic this will get resolved. I will hit them from this angle though as well.



I promise it will get resolved. Just watch.


----------



## edjrwinnt

The supervisor from Time Warner just called me back and everything is fine now. Too bad I had to waste 10+ hours of my time over several weeks just to get digital cable service with 2 working STB's, and one cable card at the price I was told I would be paying back in early March. Oh well, life goes on and it could be worse.










Now I just hope they add a couple of more HD channels like A & E and FX otherwise i'll be switching to DirecTV this fall.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13704364
> 
> 
> The supervisor from Time Warner just called me back and everything is fine now. Too bad I had to waste 10+ hours of my time over several weeks just to get digital cable service with 2 working STB's, and one cable card at the price I was told I would be paying back in early March. Oh well, life goes on and it could be worse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I just hope they add a couple of more HD channels like A & E and FX otherwise i'll be switching to DirecTV this fall.



We already have A&E HD. Did you get the new lineup? If you haven't, A&E HD comes with the new lineup...


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13704817
> 
> 
> We already have A&E HD. Did you get the new lineup? If you haven't, A&E HD comes with the new lineup...



That's cool but I'm not sure if I'll get it with the stripped down plan I have. I don't get all the HD channels like UHD and Mojo.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13703191
> 
> 
> No new lineup love in the Bath/Copley end of the TWC ex-Adelphia system this morning, though STO did change (as someone mentioned) from 17 to 76 on the analog side.
> 
> 
> Is that train coming through tonight?



The caboose hasn't rolled by yet. Patience, grasshopper.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13705041
> 
> 
> The caboose hasn't rolled by yet. Patience, grasshopper.



You do realize you're credibility will suffer if it doesn't happen. Not to mention the fact that I'm standing by licking my chops waiting to go after you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13704918
> 
> 
> That's cool but I'm not sure if I'll get it with the stripped down plan I have. I don't get all the HD channels like UHD and Mojo.



Those channels are in the basic plan. The only channels that arn't are MOJO, HDnet, HDnet Movies and Universal HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13705104
> 
> 
> You do realize you're credibility will suffer if it doesn't happen. Not to mention the fact that I'm standing by licking my chops waiting to go after you.



Be my guest. I've already seen some of the changes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13705041
> 
> 
> The caboose hasn't rolled by yet. Patience, grasshopper.



As long as it's taking for the thing to finally hit the ex-Adelphia areas, I think the caboose is being PULLED by a grasshopper.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13705934
> 
> 
> As long as it's taking for the thing to finally hit the ex-Adelphia areas, I think the caboose is being PULLED by a grasshopper.



Considering the complexity of the move, it's understandable that it's taking some time. Ultimately though it takes less time to do it right than to do it over!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13705585
> 
> 
> Be my guest. I've already seen some of the changes.



Oh really. You want to share those changes with the rest of us? Or is it you're pleasure to have us go through the remote.


I've got my guide printed up for the new channels upstairs. I'll have a look.


Now if this is completed by the time I wake up on Thursday morning I will say nice call.


If it isn't, then you're info wasn't as good as you thought.


I think you're pretty confident. That's usually the sign of someone who either really knows something.


If everything is the same tomorrow when I get up, it's strike 2.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13706162
> 
> 
> Oh really. You want to share those changes with the rest of us? Or is it you're pleasure to have us go through the remote.
> 
> 
> I've got my guide printed up for the new channels upstairs. I'll have a look.
> 
> 
> Now if this is completed by the time I wake up on Thursday morning I will say nice call.
> 
> 
> If it isn't, then you're info wasn't as good as you thought.
> 
> 
> I think you're pretty confident. That's usually the sign of someone who either really knows something.
> 
> 
> If everything is the same tomorrow when I get up, it's strike 2.



I'm not anywhere near a digital box at the moment, but I can see from a cable-ready TV that CMT was replaced by one of the MTV channels, which is part of the move. IMO that's at least a bunt.


----------



## G3VIZIO

TWC University Heights - STO Channel 17 is now 76. Channel 40 is now Hallmark. All Analog channels are very grainy tonight. It appears the changes have started to take place. My QAM tuner went from 75 analog/75 digital to 77/77 of each.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13706287
> 
> 
> TWC University Heights - STO Channel 17 is now 76. Channel 40 is now Hallmark. All Analog channels are very grainy tonight. It appears the changes have started to take place. My QAM tuner went from 75 analog/75 digital to 77/77 of each.



When I went to bed last night at the same time you posted I checked all digital channels and at taht time they were all the same.


I'm talking about the digital realignment, and while analog channels are a smal part of the move the big change doesn't come until I see the new digital channel alignment. Going to turn TV on now, trying to let the wife get in a few minutes extra sleep.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13706227
> 
> 
> I'm not anywhere near a digital box at the moment, but I can see from a cable-ready TV that CMT was replaced by one of the MTV channels, which is part of the move. IMO that's at least a bunt.



I see the ump is telling you to come back to the plate. That last pitch you did look for the curve but TW came up with a slider, low and in and you fouled it off.


I checked and yes indeed you are correct partially, CMT is now Turner Movies in my area and that aligns with my channel change. However there has not been a single digital move as of this morning, at least that I'm aware of.


I am troubled for the second time I turned on my television and found a frozend picture, this time on Jimmy Kimbell Live and that isn't a FOX Channel so probably they are attempting somethings.


And all these duplicate channels on digital and analog. What's up with that? Perhaps a plan in the future to remove these channels from analog so that people who wanted to watch them will have to purchase a digital box? Oh, that's right it's free you just pay for the service. Then they charge you for the DVR after one year even though you didn't request the DVR to start.


Time Warner. They think liike single men. They f*** you and then don't even kiss you.

















The count is 0 and 2. Make sure you get at least a piece of this next pitch. Analog does not count.


----------



## bassguitarman

Well here in Copley I caught the box in the middle of the lineup change. As of 7am all I have now is analog stations and no guide. I hope it works when I get home.

Dave


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/13708224
> 
> 
> Well here in Copley I caught the box in the middle of the lineup change. As of 7am all I have now is analog stations and no guide. I hope it works when I get home.



I'm in the same general area (western Summit County) and I got nothing overnight. Well, maybe the analog stuff mentioned earlier - I haven't checked for CMT, for example - but the digital channels are still in the old places.


----------



## Inundated

OK, spent way too much time looking for CMT (I'm no fan, so I had no idea what channel), and indeed, analog 73 is now Turner Classic Movies instead of CMT.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/13708224
> 
> 
> Well here in Copley I caught the box in the middle of the lineup change. As of 7am all I have now is analog stations and no guide. I hope it works when I get home.



Maybe another thought - you didn't catch it in the middle of a lineup change, but rather in the middle of the Navigator thing? Two separate processes. They can update the Navigator thing without changing the lineup, though they are linked time-wise in this move, apparently.


We'll probably be the last area to get the change. They've ignored the Bath/Copley/Northampton section of the system going back to the old Cablevision days!


----------



## sabhain

Went home for lunch .. and still no change in Brecksville / Broadview Hts area. Just the analog updates, no digital revisions yet.


----------



## bassguitarman

I just hope my digital channels are back tonite !

Dave


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/13710858
> 
> 
> I just hope my digital channels are back tonite !



See my above.


Do you have more than one digital box? (Doesn't sound like it, but I thought I'd ask.)


I get the idea that we are talking about two separate processes here - the Navigator box update, and the digital realignment. Maybe you picked up a bad Navigator update.


----------



## nickdawg

Page 420!!


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

No change here in Columbia Station, except for the STO move. Ex-Adelphia house.


----------



## bassguitarman

Just one box. Only worked on the analog stuff early this morning.

Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/13712305
> 
> 
> Just one box. Only worked on the analog stuff early this morning.
> 
> Dave



If digital channels arn't there, reboot. First rule in anything dealing with computers.


----------



## orange5814

Nothing new here in Twinsburg to report.


----------



## Inundated

Are we sure this is ever going to happen?


----------



## paule123

You TWC guys are funny. Us DirecTV people are just sitting back and waiting for our new satellite to get in it's parking spot in a couple of weeks and light up hundreds of new HD channels.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13714931
> 
> 
> You TWC guys are funny. Us DirecTV people are just sitting back and waiting for our new satellite to get in it's parking spot in a couple of weeks and light up hundreds of new HD channels.



You DirecTV guys are funny. We'll be standing on good ol' terra firma while you're crawling around on the roof fixing the antennas after the next big wind.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13714607
> 
> 
> Are we sure this is ever going to happen?



No, and Cathode Kid that's strike 3. You're out.











Since I've been in this forum I've only seen one person even come close to true prediction of events and that was hansom (I think that was his name) .


Now that doesn't it won't happen sometime soon and I'm really not out to get you. I'm sure they are "working" on it as they have been for over a month but when that train really arrives I wouldn't be suprised if anybody can actually say.


Put my ear to the track this morning. Didn't hear a thing.


Perhaps the train took another track? Or maybe being as it's dealing with old Adelphia it got derrailed?


----------



## Rbuchina

I recieved a call from my brother last night. He lives with my dad in Richmond Hts where we grew up. They recieved the new lineup yesturday. He called me around 5:30 PM. They were Adelphia before TWC took over. I am in Mentor and still nothing here. I think its time to take bets as to who will the last system to get the reallignment. I bet Mentor will be last.


Ray


----------



## fpo701

I haven't posted here in a really long time. I have just this morning been upgraded (?) to Navigator. I have an 8300HD. For some reason, I have no DVR functions. The guide still shows programs in red that are scheduled to record. I can't use pause, record, list, rewind. I can't select any new programs from the guide to record.


Is anyone else seeing this?


-- Frank


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fpo701* /forum/post/13716933
> 
> 
> I haven't posted here in a really long time. I have just this morning been upgraded (?) to Navigator. I have an 8300HD. For some reason, I have no DVR functions. The guide still shows programs in red that are scheduled to record. I can't use pause, record, list, rewind. I can't select any new programs from the guide to record.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else seeing this?
> 
> 
> -- Frank



Interesting... I'm also in Akron and I still have Passport. Also on the 8300HD.


I know they did push Navigator through for 8300SD DVRs last week as well as some non-DVR boxes. I guess Time Warner is strange like that










I DVRed a movie in HD overnight and it is all there.


----------



## bassguitarman

Sorry guys, false alarm, got home last night and the box was back to normal.No lineup change or Navigator software.

Dave


----------



## nosey313

I live Sagamore Hills (old Adelphia area). Still no changes here.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg.....gotta compliment you on the signature. I've seen AI as the downfall of music for many years.


And the reason you don't get navigator is TW fears you.


----------



## hookbill

Yep, that's what it said when I got home yesterday. Seems I had a "partial months charge from last month" of 241.00.


I call TW and press billing. Now I have to say everytime I have tried to talk to billing they are the most useless people in the world. No matter what it is they say they have to transfer me to customer service. What the hell are they?


So this monkey first ask me if I moved recently. I tell him no. He says one moment. Then he says he's looking at the bill. Then he ask me if I moved recently. I tell him you already asked me that and I answred it. No. Then he tells me that I ordered Major League Baseball last month. I said no, I had it last year and even then they divided the payments up and I didn't want it this year. He insist that someone called from my home. I said it's just me and my wife and nobody ordered it, give me a credit.


He says he can't. It's too much money for him to refund. He has to transfer me to (guess where) customer service.


So he transfers me and I hear the TW recordings and then I get the infamously loud busy signal.


So I call again this time pressing the "technical video" line because I know that's the real customer service only to get a guy who tells me I need to speak to billing. I told him billing transfered me to customer service, arn't you customer service? He says yes. He's flustered and doesn't know what to do so I ask for a customer service specialist.


I get transferred successfully this time and talk to Sabrina. Sabrina is sympathetic and says absolutely she will take care of this and tells me she will remove the cost of MLB plus the tax. I ask her for any other info like an employee number, extension. She tells me that she is the only Sabrina who works at TW customer service.


Well, Sabrina the teen age witch she certainly wasn't because next day I looke at the internet and there is no credit. I call TW customer service and talk to someone else. She says she see's the notes but Sabrina could not give the credit. It would have to be done by her manager. I say so this will happen? She says yes definitely. I say thanks and hang up.


Then I start thinking. How many times have I been told something is going to a manager and nothing happens?


I decide why not. Why waste time. So I draft up a letter and finish it off at work and zap it off to [email protected] .


At lunch I have a voice mail from someone in their local office. She wants to talk to me. I call her at her extension and amazingly she answers. I tell her who I am and she apologizes all over the place and yes she has the letter I sent to Steve Fry and not only is she refunding my money, she's not charging me for my cable card install or my two new cable cards. She tells me to pay 129.87 and not a penny more. She says she "rounded off" a couple of other charges so that's all I need to pay.


It seems like TW customer service is just as bad as Adelphia. But once again going to the top gets thing done.


My wife just checked. The adjustment is there!









[email protected] .


He's the man.


----------



## Inundated

I'm tempted to drop a Steve Fry note asking when the freakin' channel alignment is going to finally take place, but I don't wanna abuse the Power of the Fry Force.











The old Adelphia used to have a channel 1 message that they could put stuff like this up. No longer.


I don't mind the "wait", but I'd like some advance notice.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Fry Force should only be used in case of emergency help.









Please don't abuse it. If we start useing it for trivial purposes, we may lose it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13722598
> 
> 
> .......... He insist that someone called from my home. I said it's just me and my wife and nobody ordered it, give me a credit......



Are you certain your birds were in their cages when TW claims this phone call came from your home???


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13722598
> 
> 
> Then he tells me that I ordered Major League Baseball last month. I said no, I had it last year and even then they divided the payments up and I didn't want it this year.



I think these PPV packages are generally set up for auto-renewal which is what may have caused you problems. Did you ever call back last year to cancel MLB:EI for next year? I am not by any means condoning this practice, only trying to come up with a reasonable explanation for the MLB:EI order.


----------



## jtscherne

They've always been auto-renewal with the satellite companies, but in the past, they weren't with the cable companies. In addition, I always receive correspondence from Directv in advance reminding me of the subscription, so I can cancel if I want.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13725146
> 
> 
> I think these PPV packages are generally set up for auto-renewal which is what may have caused you problems. Did you ever call back last year to cancel MLB:EI for next year? I am not by any means condoning this practice, only trying to come up with a reasonable explanation for the MLB:EI order.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13725089
> 
> 
> Are you certain your birds were in their cages when TW claims this phone call came from your home???



I knew someone was going to say this. Well it's true some of them are fans of out of town teams like the Cardinals and there are a few Orioles fans. However I checked to see if anybody had a hidden cell phone and I couldn't find one so I don't think they did it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13725146
> 
> 
> I think these PPV packages are generally set up for auto-renewal which is what may have caused you problems. Did you ever call back last year to cancel MLB:EI for next year? I am not by any means condoning this practice, only trying to come up with a reasonable explanation for the MLB:EI order.



I asked that question specifically last year and I was told no, but then again it was a CSR I spoke with.










I know that D* use to do that but I would see it starting to show up a couple of months before the season started so no problem stopping it.


And even if they did an auto renewal, hit me with one payment when I made 3 last year? They've always had the 3 payment option, why would that change?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13723695
> 
> 
> Fry Force should only be used in case of emergency help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't abuse it. If we start useing it for trivial purposes, we may lose it.



Yeah pushing the Fry button on the change issue won't do much good. As I said earlier I doubt anybody really knows exactly what day the change will happen. It probably goes on a day by day basis at this point.


----------



## Rbuchina

I see there does not appear to be any new channel reallaignments reported this morning. I thought after I heard Richmond Hts (old Adelphia) changed on Wednesday we would begin to see one or two non-legacy systems a day getting realligned. I will be visiting my dad's on Saturday and I will at least get a look at his new lineup when there.


Ray


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13725303
> 
> 
> Yeah pushing the Fry button on the change issue won't do much good. As I said earlier I doubt anybody really knows exactly what day the change will happen. It probably goes on a day by day basis at this point.



Oh, I know. I'm mostly teasing. I would like to know, though, why this is all hush hush, and there's no notification of when it's going to happen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13727736
> 
> 
> Oh, I know. I'm mostly teasing. I would like to know, though, why this is all hush hush, and there's no notification of when it's going to happen.



Dude, it's because they don't know what's going on either.










I'm telling you that this has become a day by day thing and we already know it's moving much slower then they hoped. I'm not surprised. Adelphia never did what they should have done in the first place and now TW is stuck with putting the pieces together.


The other day when I called customer service there was a message saying at the beginning that "people within the Cleveland Suburb Area will only be able to receive analog channels tonight."


Well, that wasn't true but obviously they had planned to try to pull something off and it didn't work.


It's a shame we can't start a pool on this. Be interesting to see who'd win. I think I would draw the pool all the way out to the end of May.


----------



## paule123

For at least the past 3 days the audio has been badly out of sync on WVIZ 25 via D*. Wondering if this is a D* problem or a WVIZ problem. I'm too lazy to hook up the antenna and drag out a TV with an analog tuner to find out.


----------



## Inundated

I'll have to agree that something apparently went wrong with the realignment. Maybe they'll come out one day and say "sorry, we tried, but it won't work".











I did get one of those coupons for the converter boxes. Or card, or whatever you called it. Picked up the Insignia (Zenith) for the downstairs analog TV in the office. Did the scanning up here, and pick up the usual except for 3/19 for the obvious reasons.


I could probably mess with the antenna for 19. Both show signal, just not good enough to lock, at least in my moves of the antenna up here.


----------



## nickdawg

Former Adelphia Customers: do you currently have digital simulcast? Example: CNN is on an analog channel on TVs without a box but it is digital on the same channel number on TVs with a STB.


Our Time Warner did a digital conversion about two years ago. If these channels are not available in digital yet, that may be what is holding it up. They have to upgrade to digital channels to map them with the other channels. Plus, they have to do this anyway with 2/17/09 coming up soon.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13731960
> 
> 
> Former Adelphia Customers: do you currently have digital simulcast? Example: CNN is on an analog channel on TVs without a box but it is digital on the same channel number on TVs with a STB.
> 
> 
> Our Time Warner did a digital conversion about two years ago. If these channels are not available in digital yet, that may be what is holding it up. They have to upgrade to digital channels to map them with the other channels. *Plus, they have to do this anyway with 2/17/09 coming up soon.*



The analog *broadcast* cut-off is irrelevant in regards to cable's digital simulcast.


----------



## Inundated

Ex-Adelphians have the four major broadcast network affiliates (3/5/8/19) in digital simulcast mode. Very few, if any, of the "analog cable channels" are.


I'm sure this is part of the process, as many of the analog expanded basic cable channels have digital mirrors in the new lineup.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13732624
> 
> 
> Ex-Adelphians have the four major broadcast network affiliates (3/5/8/19) in digital simulcast mode. Very few, if any, of the "analog cable channels" are.
> 
> 
> I'm sure this is part of the process, as many of the analog expanded basic cable channels have digital mirrors in the new lineup.



I'm not debating the likelihood of the digital simulcast as being part of the realignment process, just that digital simulcast has *nothing* to do with the analog broadcast cutoff.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13731960
> 
> 
> Our Time Warner did a digital conversion about two years ago. If these channels are not available in digital yet, that may be what is holding it up. They have to upgrade to digital channels to map them with the other channels. Plus, they have to do this anyway with 2/17/09 coming up soon.



Aw, horse manure. These channels have been available for years in digital broadcast. D* and E* have been bringing them in just fine and not upgraded analog either.


The only reason TW is putting them on digital and analog is because in the evil twisted thinking they are eventually going to pull these channels off of analog and say, gee sorry but we need to get the most out of what we have available and these channels just take up so much bandwith so we had to put them on digitital at all time. However you can get a free digital box at any of our locations (for 1 year) if you still want to receive these channels. You will be charged for digital service. And then after the year goes by we will screw you with the charge for the DVR as well.


Oh, you say you didn't want the DVR. Gosh, we are sorry but that's all we have anymore.


Time Warner is having problems because they have a screwed up deal left over from Adelphia. I still think they will pull it off because they have no choice, D* and E* will run them out of town, not to mention AT&T. But how long it will take is anybody's guess.


Has anyone noticed that Cathode Kid has disappeared since for the last couple of days?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13732759
> 
> 
> The only reason TW is putting them on digital and analog is because in the evil twisted thinking *they are eventually going to pull these channels off of analog* and say, gee sorry but we need to get the most out of what we have available and these channels just take up so much bandwith so we had to put them on digitital at all time. However you can get a free digital box at any of our locations (for 1 year) if you still want to receive these channels. You will be charged for digital service. And then after the year goes by we will screw you with the charge for the DVR as well.



God, how I really wish they would do that!! This analog bulls*** needs to go. It should have been gone yesterday. Figure for each NTSC analog channel Time Warner has, two or three HDTV or seven SD digital channels could occupy that space. Time Warner is hemorrhaging in wasting bandwidth and they keep clawing at their wounds the longer they keep this garbage on analog.


Just keep the required local broadcast and DUMP THE REST OF THE CRAP!!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13732759
> 
> 
> The only reason TW is putting them on digital and analog is because in the evil twisted thinking they are eventually going to pull these channels off of analog and say, gee sorry but we need to get the most out of what we have available and these channels just take up so much bandwith so we had to put them on digitital at all time.



Man, you are one cynical person, Hookbill. They've been saying publicly for a long time rhat all of the analog broadcast channels will still be available in analog format after the DTV cutoff.



> Quote:
> Has anyone noticed that Cathode Kid has disappeared since for the last couple of days?



No, I haven't noticed that.







I've been reading and thinking about the issue at hand.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13732339
> 
> 
> The analog *broadcast* cut-off is irrelevant in regards to cable's digital simulcast.



My sister has cable using the analog tuner in the SD tv(no cable box). After the switch will she still be able to use the tv tuner or will she need to add a cable box to continue using the same tv?


Thx,

Tom


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13734519
> 
> 
> Man, you are one cynical person, Hookbill. They've been saying publicly for a long time rhat all of the analog broadcast channels will still be available in analog format after the DTV cutoff.



I think yoou missed my point. I understand that analog will be available. I have no doubt.


But why create a digital and analog version of the same channel? With the exception of locals this doesn't make sense.


Now it COULD be that they need these versions in digital so they can go HD eventually. I didn't think about that until just now.


Time will tell. But thanks for at least getting me to think of another reason why they might do this. I'll try not to be to cynical. Of Time Warner. The same Time Warner that just tried to overcharge me 250.00. and didn't provide me with the proper services for high speed internet until I complained to Steve Fry.


After all....Time Warner - We think like you do!










Whoops got a little cynical again. Or is it sarcastic....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/13734577
> 
> 
> My sister has cable using the analog tuner in the SD tv(no cable box). After the switch will she still be able to use the tv tuner or will she need to add a cable box to continue using the same tv?
> 
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Tom



Yes, she will have no problem at all.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I think that is definately cynical and not sarcastic Hook. Take it from me, I'm an expert at both. Although with TW, it's only common sense that you definately have a right to be cynical.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13734636
> 
> 
> I think that is definately cynical and not sarcastic Hook. Take it from me, I'm an expert at both. Although with TW, it's only common sense that you definately have a right to be cynical.



Thanks for your expert opinion on that. I always have trouble distinguishing between sarcasm and cynicism.


----------



## hershsa

I'm trying to help someone from brecksville find their QAM channels. Are the locals still 3-1, 5-1, 8-1, and 19-1 for TWC?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hershsa* /forum/post/13736446
> 
> 
> I'm trying to help someone from brecksville find their QAM channels. Are the locals still 3-1, 5-1, 8-1, and 19-1 for TWC?



Yes, but those numbers don't reflect the actual frequencies. The channel numbers are contained within the PSIP data for the channel, in an area called the Virtual Channel Table. This enables a broadcaster or cable company to move a program to any frequency and still have it show up to the user as 3-1, 5-1 etc.


Re-scan the TV et and the set will make a list of which frequencies correspond with which VCTs.


----------



## Inundated

We kicked this around before. Cable companies are required to provide analog versions of the local broadcast channels (downconverted) as long as they provide analog service of any form.


What eventually could happen, but I'm guessing not soon, would be that TWC could provide analog only as "lifeline basic", with the broadcast channels and not a lot else (say, sub 20, analog), and then offer everything else in digital only.


The new lineup would allow for that whenever they decide to do that...but I'm guessing it won't be for a few years out.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13734519
> 
> 
> I've been reading and thinking about the issue at hand.



...and?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13737918
> 
> 
> We kicked this around before. Cable companies are required to provide analog versions of the local broadcast channels (downconverted) as long as they provide analog service of any form.
> 
> 
> What eventually could happen, but I'm guessing not soon, would be that TWC could provide analog only as "lifeline basic", with the broadcast channels and not a lot else (say, sub 20, analog), and then offer everything else in digital only.



Keep in mind that the cable companies still need to be competitive in certain markets in regard to the "extra" analog channels they provide. Not so much in Akron/Canton, but imagine what would happen if TWC announced that their basic/analog Parma offerings would only include the local channels. Without the non-broadcast analogs, everyone in that area would jump ship and buy a pair of rabbit ears... Why pay TWC $25/month when they could get the same channels for a one-time purchase? That's probably a huge number of subscribers...


----------



## paulmike3

So far the ABC pregame and the first few minutes of the broadcast has been unwatchable (TWC, Mayfield Hts). Freezing every 15-20 seconds for 1-2 minutes at a time. When it does have picture AND sound, it's mostly artifacts. Anyone else having problems?


----------



## jtscherne

The game isn't blacked out on D*. It looks terrible! Way too hot...


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13740117
> 
> 
> The game isn't blacked out on D*. It looks terrible! Way too hot...



You could just watch it on WKYC


----------



## jtscherne

Earlier we discussed what the differences might be between the two. Obviously you either missed the discussion or didn't care.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13740205
> 
> 
> You could just watch it on WKYC



No Tribe game on WKYC for my cockatoo. He got his digital receiver today but I could only bring in 3 channels, 8.1, 5.1 and se habla espanol.1.


But he never watches anything but FOX 8 anyway so he should be fine. First time he's ever had a clean picture.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13740345
> 
> 
> No Tribe game on WKYC for my cockatoo. He got his digital receiver today but I could only bring in 3 channels, 8.1, 5.1 and se habla espanol.1.
> 
> 
> But he never watches anything but FOX 8 anyway so he should be fine. First time he's ever had a clean picture.



Well, he did try to call TW to help his cause, but even though that didn't work out for him, at least he got the ball rolling in his favor.










I assume you are trying OTA?... if so why not just hook up the cable and get the QAMs?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13740341
> 
> 
> Earlier we discussed what the differences might be between the two. Obviously you either missed the discussion or didn't care.



What the heck are you talking about??? You say TBS looks like crap, and KYC looks good... what, the commentators?... I don't understand what major "differences" there could be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13738490
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the cable companies still need to be competitive in certain markets in regard to the "extra" analog channels they provide. Not so much in Akron/Canton, but imagine what would happen if TWC announced that their basic/analog Parma offerings would only include the local channels. Without the non-broadcast analogs, everyone in that area would jump ship and buy a pair of rabbit ears... Why pay TWC $25/month when they could get the same channels for a one-time purchase? That's probably a huge number of subscribers...



See this is what I don't understand. I went through the entire lineup and I only saw two stations that arn't replicated in digital, excluding community access. WGN and Hallmark are the only one's I don't see on the digital list.


Part of the problem with "just putting up a pair of rabbit ears" is it just in't that simple. Basically that's what I did for my bird and I can just barely drag in 3 clear signals. And those rabbit ears I bought were listed at 39.95 with a 35% discount because I bought the converter box with my coupon at rat shack.


They don't have the Zenith boxes anymore. Sold out. They only had one, Digital Stream. 59.00. I figured with the 35% discount on the antenna it was a deal so I'd give it a try.


I am quite impressed by the picture. Tyler (my cockatoo) has stopped screaming now so he must be enjoying it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13734519
> 
> 
> No, I haven't noticed that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been reading and thinking about the issue at hand.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13737922
> 
> 
> ...and?




Yeah, what's up with that little cryptic statement. Would YOU happen to be the source? Why else would you be reading and thinking about the "issue at hand." What issue? Gotta little problem you'd like to talk to us about?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13740117
> 
> 
> The game isn't blacked out on D*. It looks terrible! Way too hot...



Thanks for reminding. I almost forgot about this opportunity to compare. Yeah, TBS has this chronic problem with the reds just blaring. I see it on every weekend baseball game with them. Also the green grass looks artifically green. I guess that goes under your technical term "too hot"










WKYC (STO) has a much more natural look to it.


----------



## 2PuttChuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13738490
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the cable companies still need to be competitive in certain markets in regard to the "extra" analog channels they provide. Not so much in Akron/Canton, but imagine what would happen if TWC announced that their basic/analog Parma offerings would only include the local channels. Without the non-broadcast analogs, everyone in that area would jump ship and buy a pair of rabbit ears... Why pay TWC $25/month when they could get the same channels for a one-time purchase? That's probably a huge number of subscribers...



Same problem in Canton (Plain Township) area.


Opps - replied to wrong message - Cavs game in Canton is also almost unwatchable due to freezeups every couple of minutes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13740386
> 
> 
> Well, he did try to call TW to help his cause, but even though that didn't work out for him, at least he got the ball rolling in his favor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you are trying OTA?... if so why not just hook up the cable and get the QAMs?



He has no cable outlet in his room. But I just did a rescan since I was getting some decent signals and now I got a bunch more channels including our favorite WOIO and of course it's substation 19.2 which has that thing on it about not being available. I didn't get 19.3 but WOIO was weak and I would have had to move the antenna around to dial it in. Since he is happy with Fox 8 I didn't want to bother, anyway I really prefer he doesn't watch "Action News."


I also pulled in My 43 nice and clean as well. Another channel he doesn't need to look at.


Now get this. The bird gets a nice clear picture of WBNX while I'm still stuck with analog TW WBNX, until they do the channel line up change. Which is going to happen starting in March. Or March thru April. Or last Tuesday or Wednesday. Or maybe in May. But I dont want to sound cynical or anything.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13739993
> 
> 
> So far the ABC pregame and the first few minutes of the broadcast has been unwatchable (TWC, Mayfield Hts). Freezing every 15-20 seconds for 1-2 minutes at a time. When it does have picture AND sound, it's mostly artifacts. Anyone else having problems?



I guess I'm the only one? Was ok for half the second quarter, now it's back to unwatchable...


----------



## nickdawg

WEW-HD on Time Warner Akron is also acting up. I don't get the channel at all. I just had a blank, grey screen and had to switch to the SD version. Way to go Time WArner!


I was watching this channel in the late night hours last night and noticed it was freezing every few minutes.


EDIT: I just filpped over to WEW HD and had picture and sound, for a few seconds. Then it went grey again.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Anybody getting a "jittery" picture on the Cavs game on WEWSDT? It looks like it's displaying every other frame or so. Watching on Armstrong Cable in Medina.


Thanks.


----------



## mgd6912

Cavs game on the HD channel is unwatchable in Canton. Keeps freezing. I have to watch the game on the SD channel. Im glad I have this nice HD TV to watch the game in SD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13740636
> 
> 
> WEW-HD on Time Warner Akron is also acting up. I don't get the channel at all. I just had a blank, grey screen and had to switch to the SD version. Way to go Time WArner!
> 
> 
> I was watching this channel in the late night hours last night and noticed it was freezing every few minutes.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I just filpped over to WEW HD and had picture and sound, for a few seconds. Then it went grey again.



I just checked. It looks good on TW in my area in HD. It also looked good in digital OTA in the birds room.










Edit: Someone just reported it's freezing OTA so it's a broadcast issue. Freezing and flipping back would cause the grey screen. Most of the time these things are not TW, they are the station.


----------



## clevemkt

Watching (or trying to) NASCAR on TWC (8.1) but it kept locking up every few minutes or so... switched to the antenna... all OK. (In Cuyahoga Falls). WEWS was doing that the other night.


----------



## Inundated

Didn't get a chance to watch the Cavs game on WEWS in HD...just caught the last few minutes in analog form.


But it sounds like a WEWS problem, given that folks on different cable systems reported it as well as OTA.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now get this. The bird gets a nice clear picture of WBNX while I'm still stuck with analog TW WBNX, until they do the channel line up change. Which is going to happen starting in March. Or March thru April. Or last Tuesday or Wednesday. Or maybe in May. But I dont want to sound cynical or anything.



Heh.


Just for kicks and grins, I tuned the digital cable box to 399, the ongoing loop of information about the realignment. When I watched it, they were featuring the "Ask Time Warner" segment between Don V. and TWC's marketing guy.


The show, which I think started airing in late February or early March, said the process would go "neighborhood by neighborhood" and take place over 30 days. The promos they were running also said "March 2008". It's nearly May.










SOMETHING WENT WRONG. That has to be it. And I can understand if our resident "source" here doesn't wanna talk about it. I just wish someone at TWC would provide more specific information to the ex-Adelphia/Cleveland types who are still waiting.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13740637
> 
> 
> Anybody getting a "jittery" picture on the Cavs game on WEWSDT? It looks like it's displaying every other frame or so. Watching on Armstrong Cable in Medina.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I was checking in here to ask the very same question. On WOW cable, it looked like a webcast at times.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/1374106
> 
> 
> 2Heh.
> 
> 
> Just for kicks and grins, I tuned the digital cable box to 399, the ongoing loop of information about the realignment. When I watched it, they were featuring the "Ask Time Warner" segment between Don V. and TWC's marketing guy.
> 
> 
> The show, which I think started airing in late February or early March, said the process would go "neighborhood by neighborhood" and take place over 30 days. The promos they were running also said "March 2008". It's nearly May.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOMETHING WENT WRONG. That has to be it. And I can understand if our resident "source" here doesn't wanna talk about it. I just wish someone at TWC would provide more specific information to the ex-Adelphia/Cleveland types who are still waiting.



Not so much last week but the week before I woke up and found my tv sets both with frozen pictures on them from late night shows. I think that's when TW started to see this might not be as easy to do as they thought.


Matter of fact they probably knew it wouldn't be easy to do anyway, came up with a plan tried to implement it and something went wrong. So now they are trying to figure out what to do. For all we know they may be starting from scratch as far as the old Cleveland Adelphia areas go.


I really don't fault TW on this and I'm not upset that they haven't pulled it off. It was my thinking all along that it would be a major challenge to do it which is why I purchased the S3 and TiVo HD. I figured it would take a while just to do channel realignment and I "hoped" that something would come around by the time SDV actually got here. So this delay is just fine with me.


I do fault TW however for their ridiculous idea of putting copy protection on all digital channels. That simply doesn't make sense.


For those of you who may not understand what I meant in that statement, TW will allow you to copy a digital program however they have put a lock on it so you can't move it from one DVR to another or to your computer. This affects TiVo people.


----------



## nickdawg

Yeah, it looks like a WEWS problem since OTA and other cable has commented here. What a shock, technical difficulties on 5's HD channel










I have anohter one: while watching "Grey's Anatomy" and "Lost" on Thursday there was a black bar on the bottom of the screen. It wasn't covering anything, it looked like someone/something at WEWS was scresed up and the overscan/screen position settings were wrong. The whole picture looked as if it were higher on the screen(the bug was too high). WEWS usually irritates me since their picture is too far up from the bottom, but on Thursday it was really wrong.


----------



## dleising

I think the Cavs game issues were a TW problem. I got pissed with the cable so I plugged in some rabbit ears to my TV and the gave came in fine on WEWS OTA. If anything it looked like a few frames were dropping out but it was sure a whole hell of a lot more watchable that TW.


Glad to hear I wasn't the only one experiencing problems with WEWS during the game...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13740451
> 
> 
> Yeah, what's up with that little cryptic statement. Would YOU happen to be the source? Why else would you be reading and thinking about the "issue at hand." What issue? Gotta little problem you'd like to talk to us about?



"Cryptic?" All I'm trying to do is to think and chew gum at the same time. Somedays I have trouble with this concept.










But I'm also thinking about the conversion. Every version of set-top box has it's own hardware and firmware version, plus all of the middleware that has to run on top of it. They're all a little different. It's like rolling out a new version of Windows across multiple corporations - depending on the software that's already installed, the new OS may or may not play well with the legacy apps. To further complicate matters, there are apps running in the CE devices (such as Tivo) which can be affected by firmware changes. And there are some DCR TV sets that are notorious for firmware issues.


It's not your father's TV technology anymore. Whenever an operator is faced with making sweeping changes, they have to plan for all of the dominoes that will fall, including those that won't fall in the expected direction.


If I was making the changes, I would do them in carefully measured steps to insure the least amount of disruption. Which appears to be what they're doing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13741660
> 
> 
> I think the Cavs game issues were a TW problem. I got pissed with the cable so I plugged in some rabbit ears to my TV and the gave came in fine on WEWS OTA. If anything it looked like a few frames were dropping out but it was sure a whole hell of a lot more watchable that TW.
> 
> 
> Glad to hear I wasn't the only one experiencing problems with WEWS during the game...



Well, somebody at Armstrong cable said the same thing that they were having problems. I still vote broadcast issue.


----------



## hookbill




Cathode Kid;If I was making the changes said:


> We're both on the same page. That's exactly what I think is going on.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13741933
> 
> 
> But I'm also thinking about the conversion. Every version of set-top box has it's own hardware and firmware version, plus all of the middleware that has to run on top of it. They're all a little different. It's like rolling out a new version of Windows across multiple corporations - depending on the software that's already installed, the new OS may or may not play well with the legacy apps. To further complicate matters, there are apps running in the CE devices (such as Tivo) which can be affected by firmware changes. And there are some DCR TV sets that are notorious for firmware issues.



Absolutely none of this has to do with the changing of a channel lineup. It has to do with the Navigator conversion, which for some odd reason TWC decided to do in the same window as the lineup changes.


TWC could separate the processes, no? They could do the channel lineup changes without doing Navigator, no? Or, vice versa.


There may be a very good technical reason they decided to do it "all at once". But they can move around channels without changing the box firmware, unless there's a point in here I don't know (technically)...which there may be.


It just got me that the process seems to have come to a screeching halt once they hit the former Adelphia systems. Maybe there's a lot more behind that than changing the "legacy" systems, as they call them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13742602
> 
> 
> It just got me that the process seems to have come to a screeching halt once they hit the former Adelphia systems. Maybe there's a lot more behind that than changing the "legacy" systems, as they call them.



Of course. And that's probably why Adelphia never did it either. And I'll bet when the sale was made nobody decided to say anything.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13741946
> 
> 
> Well, somebody at Armstrong cable said the same thing that they were having problems. I still vote broadcast issue.



The frame rate issues are WEWS issue(I've seen that problem before). The dropout/blank screen is Time Warner. I still cannot get WUAB-DT(it was breaking up/frezing earlier). Guess that means "south park" on WUAB analog tonight

















I saved myself the aggrivation and watched everything in SD tonight(my box rebooted from flipping through the channels-must've been confused). So far, WEWS has not been freezing every few seconds. Everything else is now OK, except for WUAB. WJW was gone earlier




























, now it's back.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13743302
> 
> 
> The frame rate issues are WEWS issue(I've seen that problem before). The dropout/blank screen is Time Warner. I still cannot get WUAB-DT(it was breaking up/frezing earlier). Guess that means "south park" on WUAB analog tonight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saved myself the aggrivation and watched everything in SD tonight(my box rebooted from flipping through the channels-must've been confused). So far, WEWS has not been freezing every few seconds. Everything else is now OK, except for WUAB. WJW was gone earlier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , now it's back.



Wow, I watched the news last night on WUAB and I didn't have a single problem from 10:00 pm to 11:00 pm. Yes, I do watch Action News everyonce in a while so I don't have to hear about American Idol.










Maybe the problem is the the SA 83....


Whoops, sorry. That was a slip up. Really.


----------



## snagy

I was watching Cav's also on 5.1 OTA in Geauga, and having same frame problems myself.


Steve


----------



## smoti17

Well, the clued-up TWC tech who finally sorted my cablecard install said the switch-over would happen by the end of the month, so I guess we still have one Tue/Wed window to go... Hmm.


Probably they have hit some kind of show-stopper on the conversion. I would hope that if this was major show-stopper, they would come clean and admit they'll have to try again in a few months. More likely it is a minor issue, and they are having to put things off on a week-by-week basis, aiming towards the next Tue/Wed maintenance slot. I'd like to think at least that degree of planning and leadership is going on internally, though it's hard to tell.


Where I think TWC have really dropped the ball is on communication. It would not be hard to have provided a web page listing each service area together with an expected conversion date, updated weekly.

I'm about to spend much of the next month traveling, and it would be nice not to potentially miss shows because I wasn't around to re-do the guided setup on my Tivos.



[Just listened to the WCPN program on Digital TV, but no information there that'd be new to folks here.]


----------



## HD MM

No issues whatsoever during the Cav's HD Broadcast. Watched via D*........


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13745038
> 
> 
> Probably they have hit some kind of show-stopper on the conversion. *I would hope that if this was major show-stopper, they would come clean and admit they'll have to try again in a few months.* More likely it is a minor issue, and they are having to put things off on a week-by-week basis, aiming towards the next Tue/Wed maintenance slot. I'd like to think at least that degree of planning and leadership is going on internally, though it's hard to tell.



Thank you. That's the first time I've laughed all day.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13743302
> 
> 
> I saved myself the aggrivation and watched everything in SD tonight(my box rebooted from flipping through the channels-must've been confused). So far, WEWS has not been freezing every few seconds. Everything else is now OK, except for WUAB. WJW was gone earlier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , now it's back.



The head of engineering at WEWS spoke with Time Warner and they admitted to having problems with the WEWS HD signal especially during Sunday's game. They say they are in the process of correcting the problem.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/13747362
> 
> 
> The head of engineering at WEWS spoke with Time Warner and they admitted to having problems with the WEWS HD signal especially during Sunday's game. They say they are in the process of correcting the problem.



I didn't have the time to write this up yesterday. I called in about this as well. After speaking with a tech, they sent a signal to my box & the stuttering/freezing stopped. However, after that the picture looked crappy. Looked like lower frame rate. After awhile it fixed itself.


One thing of note though. At one point while speaking to the tech, she called some guy at the head end and inquired about when the issue was going to be fixed. She mentioned to him about the low frame rates. Head end guy goes "tell him he can still watch the game on the SD channel." I realize this is par for the course, but come on. I spend a lot of money each month on this crap & the last thing they should be telling a customer is "tough." I am this close to calling D* and finding out if I can get it. The only thing holding me back is the hassle associated with setting up an appointment and waiting then being told LOS is an issue.


TWC, your service is garbage.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/13747362
> 
> 
> The head of engineering at WEWS spoke with Time Warner and they admitted to having problems with the WEWS HD signal especially during Sunday's game. They say they are in the process of correcting the problem.



WEWS has really had some problems, especially with frame rate and out of position picture. Glad to hear they are doing something about it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13738490
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the cable companies still need to be competitive in certain markets in regard to the "extra" analog channels they provide. Not so much in Akron/Canton, but imagine what would happen if TWC announced that their basic/analog Parma offerings would only include the local channels. Without the non-broadcast analogs, everyone in that area would jump ship and buy a pair of rabbit ears... Why pay TWC $25/month when they could get the same channels for a one-time purchase? That's probably a huge number of subscribers...



Except that Parma is one of a few select communities in NE Ohio without TWC as a choice for cable! (if you want cable you have the choice of Cox, Cox or Cox. Life is wonderful in the Peoples Republic of Parma). We missed out on WOW thanks to the 216 area code split. The person who was mayor at the time would not agree to negotiate with Ameritech (the original builder of what is now WOW) without first agreeing to not split-up Parma into 2 different area codes. The a/c split was drawn up by an independent committee not associated with any phone company. Judging by how they drew the line, I believe they all lived in Hunting Valley (since that distant 'burb stayed in 216 while closer blue-collar 'burbs like Parma got split-up).


BTW: If you happen to drive down Sprague Rd. between Broadview and State look up at the cable lines that run along the north side of the street. You will see a rare sight - 3 separate cable systems on the same poles: COX for the houses on the Parma side of the street, and TWC + WOW for the North Royalton side (and perhaps Broadview Hts. too, although I'm not certain WOW is in BVH).


In Cox's defense they run a decent operation, for a cable company. It was companies like Cablevision and Adelphia that gave cable a bad name. When I moved out here (from the Cablevision mammoth eastern suburbs system) in the mid 90's I got Dish and haven't looked back.


----------



## Smarty-pants

LOL, I certainly wish that had the choice to choose a different cable company OTHER THAN tw...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13748412
> 
> 
> WEWS has really had some problems, especially with frame rate and out of position picture. Glad to hear they are doing something about it.



And you were so quick to blame TW!










I don't blame you. They are getting on top of my **** list. Them and Chase Bank.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13749322
> 
> 
> Except that Parma is one of a few select communities in NE Ohio without TWC as a choice for cable! (if you want cable you have the choice of Cox, Cox or Cox. Life is wonderful in the Peoples Republic of Parma). We missed out on WOW thanks to the 216 area code split. The person who was mayor at the time would not agree to negotiate with Ameritech (the original builder of what is now WOW) without first agreeing to not split-up Parma into 2 different area codes. The a/c split was drawn up by an independent committee not associated with any phone company. Judging by how they drew the line, I believe they all lived in Hunting Valley (since that distant 'burb stayed in 216 while closer blue-collar 'burbs like Parma got split-up).



Not just Parma. Bainbridge and I'll bet Solon too. If you're in Windstream area you won't see AT&T so that's out, not that I would take it if I could.


Actually if I didn't have all these trees I would have Direct TV. In my cafeteria at work we have large flat screen LCD HD TV. It's Direct TV so I get to play with the remote and use the menus. I really like it alot. I like the ease of picking things by sports or entertainment or news menus.


I always liked Direct TV. Any cable company is a bad cable company, except maybe Armstrong. Maybe.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Chase bank DOES suck. I've had problems with them in the past. Plus, last December I applied for a credit card through them and they totally lost my app







... didn't bother re-applying.

Also, TW sucks too.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13750025
> 
> 
> I always liked Direct TV. Any cable company is a bad cable company, except maybe Armstrong. Maybe.



I ended up switching from D* to Armstrong. Kind of like trading in an SUV for a minivan. They both can carry a lot of stuff, but you get what you pay for. I just so happen to be getting better gas mileage (i.e. lower monthly) from the minivan. But the SUV still has a better "bad4ss" factor associated with it.


There are times I do miss D*, but I just sit back and smile at all of the TW and Cox issues I read about. As far as cable companies go, Armstrong really is great.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13749992
> 
> 
> And you were so quick to blame TW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame you. They are getting on top of my **** list. Them and Chase Bank.



I like to think that EVERYBODY(even WEWS with all their problems) cares more about their customers/viewers than Time Warner.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13750025
> 
> 
> I always liked Direct TV. Any cable company is a bad cable company, except maybe Armstrong. Maybe.



I had Directv a few years ago. BIGGEST mistake ever!! If they didn't have that "one year you're stuck with us" clause, I would have gone back to TW much sooner. I HATE Time Warner, but not that much.


First of all, the "rain fade" is a pain in the @$$. Several times during heavy snow the damn TV didn't work. I got to watch a pixelated mess. Also when the terrorist weatherman comes on, the TV usually goes out(you better have OTA just in case).


Now onto the UI. Maybe it was an older firmware a few years ago, but the Directv guide/UI sucked monkey balls. The Time Warner guide is 100% better(although D* did have the keyboard search that is no on Passport Echo). The guide was overall more confusing and the colors were just drab and dark, similar to Navigator.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13750648
> 
> 
> I had Directv a few years ago. BIGGEST mistake ever!! If they didn't have that "one year you're stuck with us" clause, I would have gone back to TW much sooner. I HATE Time Warner, but not that much.
> 
> 
> First of all, the "rain fade" is a pain in the @$$. Several times during heavy snow the damn TV didn't work. I got to watch a pixelated mess. Also when the terrorist weatherman comes on, the TV usually goes out(you better have OTA just in case).
> 
> 
> Now onto the UI. Maybe it was an older firmware a few years ago, but the Directv guide/UI sucked monkey balls. The Time Warner guide is 100% better(although D* did have the keyboard search that is no on Passport Echo). The guide was overall more confusing and the colors were just drab and dark, similar to Navigator.




Oh no, you know nothing what D*'s guide is like now. It's really nice, easy to use and categorized.


I lived in Northern Kentucky when I had D* and I feel we got a lot more rain down there then we do here. Rain fade can be an issue but not much, matter of fact using the SA 8300 I had more problems with sound drop offs and macroblocking then I ever had with rain fade.


I liked the keyboard search too. I don't know if that's still used but the guide I use in the cafeteria is just so simple. You really need to check it out if you haven't seen it.


----------



## Inundated

We have D* at work, and get rainfade during heavy thunderstorms...not all that often, really. Enough to be annoying when it happens, but not a huge deal.


Oops, gotta go back and get another...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/13745038
> 
> 
> Well, the clued-up TWC tech who finally sorted my cablecard install said the switch-over would happen by the end of the month, so I guess we still have one Tue/Wed window to go... Hmm.



We already knew this, supposedly, from a TWC suit a week or two back quoted online. They're running out of "end of the month" fast.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably they have hit some kind of show-stopper on the conversion.



Exactly my thought. I don't have much confidence that they'll figure this out, at least the way they think they're doing it now.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where I think TWC have really dropped the ball is on communication. It would not be hard to have provided a web page listing each service area together with an expected conversion date, updated weekly.



You've now made two people laugh.










It wouldn't be such a big deal for me if A) I wasn't told repeatedly it's coming soon, and B) they didn't pepper the entire area (including ex-Adelphia sections) with billboards about it.


Oh, and C) if they weren't so secretive.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm about to spend much of the next month traveling, and it would be nice not to potentially miss shows because I wasn't around to re-do the guided setup on my Tivos.



Exactly my concern, too, aside from the fact I'm probably not traveling as much as you are. But I just wanna get that bleeping Guided Setup done and forget it.


----------



## Inundated

OK, now I'm ticked at TWC for a DIFFERENT reason.










For whatever reason, my SA3100 (SD digital cable) box decided to shut off all by itself at 4:33 this afternoon. I know the exact time because my TiVo was dutifully recording an hour long show at 4 when the screen went to black.


I just noticed that the SA3100 had power off, and turned it back on again.


My first thought, though I considered it unlikely at that hour, is that maybe it's related to the realignment - but no, no changes, and the SA8000HD in the main viewing area, hooked to my LCD HDTV, did not turn off or change.


It would have to happen on the one night that I record a bunch of shows, which turns out to be a bunch of black screen.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, I just got F**KED by Time Warner!! Passport is officially dead at the nickdawg house. Right now I'm waiting for the piece of s*** to convert settings and recordings to a "new format".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13751496
> 
> 
> OK, now I'm ticked at TWC for a DIFFERENT reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For whatever reason, my SA3100 (SD digital cable) box decided to shut off all by itself at 4:33 this afternoon. I know the exact time because my TiVo was dutifully recording an hour long show at 4 when the screen went to black.
> 
> 
> I just noticed that the SA3100 had power off, and turned it back on again.



What the heck is your house, a museum? SA3100. SA8000. I know you got at least one TiVo Series 2 proabably have a Series 1 as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13752097
> 
> 
> Well, I just got F**KED by Time Warner!! Passport is officially dead at the nickdawg house. Right now I'm waiting for the piece of s*** to convert settings and recordings to a "new format".



Don't worry nickdawg. TW says that Navigator is wonderful. I saw a commercial on it! It is going to bring television into the 21st Century.


And you know TW would never lie to us.


----------



## hookbill

I know I could ask this over in another forum but I know some of you guys are pretty smart so I thought I'd ask here.


My Sony Wega after 3 years is starting to lose a bit of picture. I know this because I can see it whenever I do a calibration, and it's very hard to tell that way but it's very obvious when I see programs that have the logos in the corner.


For example I use to be able to see the entire "eye" on the CBS logo. Now I piece of it is missing.


FOX HD I've only seen their logo completely when I first got my set. Now I see about 7/8 of the logo. Maybe less. So I think the picture is "shriniking" and the black area is expanding.


There are no adjustment for this. verticle and angle I can do, up and sideways no.


So I'm thinking about using my economic stimulus money to purchase a 32" LCD to replace it. Darn thing is a CRT and wheighs 200 pounds.


I see that some tv's it says "response time 6 mms" and some "8mms". I assume less is better but what is "mms"?


And do you agree that the Sony Wega may be losing it's picture?


----------



## ZManCartFan

Hook-


I've got a 4:3 Wega, and I have a bit of the same issue (although mine is 5 or 6 years old now). I was able to overcome some of the overscan through certain service menu adjustments. You might want to do a Google search with your particular model number to see if there is anything that can help in that arena.


By the way, "mms" is miliseconds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13752494
> 
> 
> Hook-
> 
> 
> I've got a 4:3 Wega, and I have a bit of the same issue (although mine is 5 or 6 years old now). I was able to overcome some of the overscan through certain service menu adjustments. You might want to do a Google search with your particular model number to see if there is anything that can help in that arena.
> 
> 
> By the way, "mms" is miliseconds.



I'll look but I'm pretty familiar with the menu and what it will do. Thanks for the suggestion. And the answer


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13752406
> 
> 
> Don't worry nickdawg. TW says that Navigator is wonderful. I saw a commercial on it! It is going to bring television into the 21st Century.
> 
> 
> And you know TW would never lie to us.



They did *ONE* thing right, the hideous grey sidebars are gone!!














The new OS has black sidebars on every channel(like it should be).


Unfortunately that is the only thing they did right. My DVR shows are gone!! Not just the shows are gone, but the whole DVR is gone. The DVR functions(FF, pause, record) do not work and the list does not show up. Last night I had a DVR. This morning I have an overpriced digital cable box.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13752457
> 
> 
> I know I could ask this over in another forum but I know some of you guys are pretty smart so I thought I'd ask here.
> 
> 
> My Sony Wega after 3 years is starting to lose a bit of picture. I know this because I can see it whenever I do a calibration, and it's very hard to tell that way but it's very obvious when I see programs that have the logos in the corner.
> 
> 
> For example I use to be able to see the entire "eye" on the CBS logo. Now I piece of it is missing.
> 
> 
> FOX HD I've only seen their logo completely when I first got my set. Now I see about 7/8 of the logo. Maybe less. So I think the picture is "shriniking" and the black area is expanding.
> 
> 
> There are no adjustment for this. verticle and angle I can do, up and sideways no.
> 
> 
> So I'm thinking about using my economic stimulus money to purchase a 32" LCD to replace it. Darn thing is a CRT and wheighs 200 pounds.
> 
> 
> I see that some tv's it says "response time 6 mms" and some "8mms". I assume less is better but what is "mms"?
> 
> 
> And do you agree that the Sony Wega may be losing it's picture?



Cart is correct, and yes the lower the number the better (faster). Historically, large panel LCD's (greater than 40") had major issues with this speed rating, as well as refresh rate, which caused a "swoosh mark" affect on fast moving objects (like baseballs and race cars). This will not be a major issue on a 32" screen.


The newer LCD's have largely overcome these issues (as well as improved contrast ratio, color saturation, etc..) where the plasmas have done better in these specs in the past. In many cases the larger panel LCD's have far surpassed the plasmas with these specs. So much so that plasmas are not expected to even be manufactured beyond a few more years.


Like anything: shop, compare, buy a quality name brand, compare specs. There are numerous online "LCD panel buying guides" that will help you a great deal. Just do your research and buy quality! I have a friend who bought a 46" Westinghouse 1080p LCD set recently for around $1,100 and the PQ is horrendous! My 2+ year old 720p plasma has a far better PQ than his 1080p, but I did my research and bought quality, he went solely on price.


----------



## Himey67

Our 8300HD's were Navigator'd in New Phila last night to Nickdawg, but my DVR is fully functional, only conversion messup I saw was that my Law & Order series was changed to Law & Order:SVU.


Anyone know where to find version number of Navigator? I will have to go to another thread and poke around.


----------



## nickdawg

3 reboots later... nothing...


Looks like my shows/DVR have been nuked to hell. Maybe they can say HI to Mr. Fry, I believe he has a home down there










I'm getting closer to considering tivo.


----------



## rick490

We woke up today to Navigator, here in New Phila. So far I actually like it. I have an 8300HD. It's very responsive, to commands and I like a couple features I saw like conflict resolution, and it displays the % of space used on the dvr. I only played with it for about 10 minutes, so I haven't explored everything, but I liked the search feature. All my recordings made it through along with the series manager and scheduled programs. Now if it doesn't do crazy things like rebooting and locking up, I think I'll get along with it.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13752457
> 
> 
> I see that some tv's it says "response time 6 mms" and some "8mms". I assume less is better but what is "mms"?



Who's listing the response time as "mms"? It sounds like a typo since they should be listed as "ms" as ZManCartFan said, means milliseconds.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13752398
> 
> 
> What the heck is your house, a museum? SA3100. SA8000. I know you got at least one TiVo Series 2 proabably have a Series 1 as well.



Heh!


I do have an S2, but no S1. TiVo had already jettisoned the S1s when I bought the S2 in 2003.


The SA3100 is the same box they installed in late 2003 as well. I just haven't bothered to update it, since it's a standard digital cable SD box.


If I thought an update to a newer box would fix the flakiness, I'd do it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13752635
> 
> 
> Unfortunately that is the only thing they did right. My DVR shows are gone!! Not just the shows are gone, but the whole DVR is gone. The DVR functions(FF, pause, record) do not work and the list does not show up. Last night I had a DVR. This morning I have an overpriced digital cable box.



You gotta go sit in the TWC Akron office and take a cue from hookbill. Demand answers. Get thrown out. Etc...


It looks like they are treating the New Philly folks as an extension of Canton now. We still don't have Navigator, new lineup or anything in my old Adelphia world, and New Philly was ex-Adelphia, right? They got stuff around the same time Canton (legacy) did...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13754695
> 
> 
> Heh!
> 
> 
> You gotta go sit in the TWC Akron office and take a cue from hookbill. Demand answers. Get thrown out. Etc...



That was a while back so many people probably don't know. And let's clarify.


I went in to get a SA 8300 and turn in my SA 8000. They didn't have any after Customer Service said they were available. That was the second time something like that happened to me.


So I got kind of hot and used the GD words a couple of times. That's when the lady said that if I didn't calm down she would call the cops. While that was going on some jerk decided to stick his nose into my business and told me to watch my language (the GD thing). I turned around and told him it would be in his best interest to stay out of my business....more or less.


Anyway I got the SA 8300 the next day and the rest is history. The problems, partial programs, missed recordings, etc.


I was probably better off with the SA 8000.










Nobody was thrown out. No cops were called. No punches were thrown.


This was at the Twinsburg office.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13754781
> 
> 
> This was at the Twinsburg office.




I used to live out that way and went to the Adelphia/Twinsburg office a number of times. The desk people were friendly, efficient, and competent--a complete contrast to the Cleveland Heights office. The dialup TWC customer service people are useless, misleading, and often unwilling to admit when they don't know what's causing a problem or how to fix something.


BTW, the desk people at the TWC Lakeside office in downtown Cleveland have been unfailingly helpful and friendly to deal with, given the limitations of their company--e.g., lack of equipment availability.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13754781
> 
> 
> Nobody was thrown out. No cops were called. No punches were thrown.
> 
> 
> This was at the Twinsburg office.



Well, you were a lot closer to being thrown out than I've ever been at a cable company office.










If our poster here has a non-working DVR after today, he should go in and demand a fix. Squeaky wheel and all that. It's clear that whatever's left in the Navigator conversion isn't going to fix his box getting screwed up.


----------



## Inundated

The New Philly thing is bothering me. Weren't they on the same underlying equipment as we were, due to being an old Adelphia system?


That would tend to work against some sort of inherent Adelphia-old-system related problem causing the delays in changes to the Cleveland-based system.


----------



## mgd6912

I come home... and got zapped to Navigator on my SA8300HD!! I am in Louisville near Canton. My worst nightmare has come try. I just screamed when I saw it and my wife asked what was wrong... I told her she wouldnt understand... its kind of like losing your best friend!! I cant wait to try out all the innovative new feature on this POS!!


----------



## JoeySR

In the former Adelphia area if you do a QAM search you will see several new channels including History HD. The other are new spanish channels and Sprout.


----------



## WmLGann

A guy just came to my house selling AT&T U-Verse (yep, door-to-door sales in 2008). I told him I probably already would have switched from TW except that two of our favorite channels aren't available on U-Verse: WVIZ-HD and STO-HD.


The salesman's claim was that they already have STO-HD and that TW is going to drop it very soon. He claims to have heard this from another TW customer as well as from his AT&T bosses.


I confess to some skepticism. The U-Verse channel lineup does NOT list STO-HD at all.


Is there anyone here who can substantiate the rumor? TW dropping STO?


----------



## jtscherne

U-Verse does not currently offer STO-HD, which makes me doubt everything else this person said...


----------



## Smarty-pants

TW dropping STO-HD??? I'd think I'd lay dow $100 bucks to bet that is NOT true







.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13754781
> 
> 
> That was a while back so many people probably don't know. And let's clarify.
> 
> 
> I went in to get a SA 8300 and turn in my SA 8000. They didn't have any after Customer Service said they were available. That was the second time something like that happened to me.
> 
> 
> So I got kind of hot and used the GD words a couple of times. That's when the lady said that if I didn't calm down she would call the cops. While that was going on some jerk decided to stick his nose into my business and told me to watch my language (the GD thing). I turned around and told him it would be in his best interest to stay out of my business....more or less.
> 
> 
> Anyway I got the SA 8300 the next day and the rest is history. The problems, partial programs, missed recordings, etc.
> 
> 
> I was probably better off with the SA 8000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody was thrown out. No cops were called. No punches were thrown.
> 
> This was at the Twinsburg office.



Hook, That makes me laugh so hard. I was just in that office yesterday. I had to wait in the parking lot until 2:07 pm, because the service rep is at lunch from 1:00-2:00. Oh, I'm sorry 1:00-2:07. Anyway, I wanted to exchange my 8300 HDC because everytime I power it off, it reverts to 480i. (using HDMI). The loud mouth woman at the counter told me that she would not exchange the box. She stated, " they only gaurenteed the box to work at 480i, and that I did not understand how to setup the boc properly." It was at this point that I informed her this POS box was not working correctly. Needless to say, she threatened to call the police. HAH!!!!! I am the police. Anyway, she gave me a new box, and I left.


I feel that it is important to mention that at no time did I raise my voice or use any profanity. After she advised me that I had "no clue" how to properly setup the box, I did become a bit agitated.


On another note, things still have not been updated here in Twinsburg, and my crap 8300 HDC still reverts to 480i on power off. Funny, my old box (2 boxes ago) did not do this, and I have not changed anything.


----------



## dleising

Got Navigatored here today as well. I got home, turned the box on and it started doing it's "transferring settings and recordings" thing. It took forever. It rebooted numerious times, and I went out for dinner, the damn thing was still transferring. So I thought something was wrong and reached for the phone. TW's telephone number must be stuffed! It was busy every time I called.


The box eventually finished whatever and I am now watching T.V. again, through navigator. It actually is not too bad on the 8300 HD. I will bring up any problems I have with it.


Does anybody know if navigator supports the 16x9 guide and graphics?

So far everything is still in 4x3.


----------



## Smarty-pants

*orange5814*,

Are you serious







?

You're a cop?... and when she threated to call the police, did you whip out your badge?

You know that $100 I was gonna lay down on that bet a few posts ago? I think I'd rather pay that money just to see the look on her face





















.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13758085
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if navigator supports the 16x9 guide and graphics?
> 
> So far everything is still in 4x3.



I also got Navigatored here today. Everything is intact (no recordings lost etc.) but I also can't figure out how to get 16x9 guide/osd. It seems like the display and aspect settings are specific to just video.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13758144
> 
> *orange5814*,
> 
> Are you serious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> You're a cop?... and when she threated to call the police, did you whip out your badge?
> 
> You know that $100 I was gonna lay down on that bet a few posts ago? I think I'd rather pay that money just to see the look on her face
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




Honest to goodness. That is a true story. I've been a cop since 2000. I did not show her my badge, but I did tell her to , "call 'em and see what happens." I don't like to lose my cool, but she was a royal PITA.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/13758183
> 
> 
> I also got Navigatored here today. Everything is intact (no recordings lost etc.) but I also can't figure out how to get 16x9 guide/osd. It seems like the display and aspect settings are specific to just video.



Yeah, I saw those settings as well. They do not apply to the OSD/Guide. I would have sworn that somebody told me that the Nav. software is capable of doing 16x9...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13758007
> 
> 
> TW dropping STO-HD??? I'd think I'd lay dow $100 bucks to bet that is NOT true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Let's see here...TWC has even deployed the 24/7 STO HD channel on the old 798 (ex-Adelphia) BEFORE the lineup change (whenever the heck that'll ever happen).


Oh, and TWC is STO's primary television partner.


Sounds like a bunchacrap out of the AT&T guy.


Can we find anyone to take our bets on this one? Easy money!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/13757374
> 
> 
> In the former Adelphia area if you do a QAM search you will see several new channels including History HD. The other are new spanish channels and Sprout.



Time to take my USB tuner downstairs...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WmLGann* /forum/post/13757916
> 
> 
> The salesman's claim was that they already have STO-HD and that TW is going to drop it very soon.



I wouldn't put any money on that.


Also, I'm hearing another train... could it be digital realignment for Cleveland tonight?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Here we go again. The term "cry wolf" comes to mind... just kidding














.


----------



## gforaker

My main 8300hd got zapped with navigator last night. It goes into a constant reboot loop and appears fried. We called TWC after work and the earliest they can get anyone out is May 9. The worst part is the I have an external hard drive with probably 60 hours recorded and it will all be lost if they replace the cable box.


The non-hd box in the den was updated several weeks ago and it sucks. Just one example. When going through a recorded program there is no easy time indicator to go to an exact spot in the recording and when trying to speed through a recording you can no longer hit the right or left arrow to zip 15 minutes at a time. You just have to go at 2 or 3 times fast forward or reverse to slowly go to a spot. It can take minutes to find the right spot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/13758025
> 
> 
> I feel that it is important to mention that at no time did I raise my voice or use any profanity. After she advised me that I had "no clue" how to properly setup the box, I did become a bit agitated.
> 
> 
> On another note, things still have not been updated here in Twinsburg, and my crap 8300 HDC still reverts to 480i on power off. Funny, my old box (2 boxes ago) did not do this, and I have not changed anything.




There was a trick I had to pull one time when I had that problem. Let me ask you this. Have you got anything hooked up to your TV besides the SA8300? Like maybe a S video cable?


I found out that I had to set the program on that to "pass through" on that video hook up and once I did that it stopped reverting to 480i.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13758428
> 
> 
> Let's see here...TWC has even deployed the 24/7 STO HD channel on the old 798 (ex-Adelphia) BEFORE the lineup change (whenever the heck that'll ever happen).
> 
> 
> Oh, and TWC is STO's primary television partner.
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunchacrap out of the AT&T guy.
> 
> 
> Can we find anyone to take our bets on this one? Easy money!



Yep, my first thought after reading that. Boy, what sales people won't do to make a sale.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13758606
> 
> 
> My main 8300hd got zapped with navigator last night. It goes into a constant reboot loop and appears fried. We called TWC after work and the earliest they can get anyone out is May 9. The worst part is the I have an external hard drive with probably 60 hours recorded and it will all be lost if they replace the cable box.
> 
> 
> The non-hd box in the den was updated several weeks ago and it sucks. Just one example. When going through a recorded program there is no easy time indicator to go to an exact spot in the recording and when trying to speed through a recording you can no longer hit the right or left arrow to zip 15 minutes at a time. You just have to go at 2 or 3 times fast forward or reverse to slowly go to a spot. It can take minutes to find the right spot.



Geeze, doesn't sound like this whole navigator thing is working out quite the way TW wanted it to. I'm absolutely shocked! And I was just beginning to think that maybe I made a mistake by purchasing two TiVo's when I could enjoy the benefits of this fine Navigator that they talked about in the commercial.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13758769
> 
> 
> There was a trick I had to pull one time when I had that problem. Let me ask you this. Have you got anything hooked up to your TV besides the SA8300? Like maybe a S video cable?
> 
> 
> I found out that I had to set the program on that to "pass through" on that video hook up and once I did that it stopped reverting to 480i.



My 8300 runs to an Onkyo 805 and then to a Panny Plasma. All via HDMI. When I turn off the 8300 or switch inputs on the Onkyo, the output reverts to 480i. This never used to happen. I will give the pass through setting a try though. What is really odd is that my first 8300HDC and my 8300HD before that were hooked up in the same manner, and everything worked great.


I went though the whole HD setup wizard, saved my settings, and it still reverts to 480i. I will give pass through a try and see what happens. Thanks.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13758487
> 
> 
> Also, I'm hearing another train... could it be digital realignment for Cleveland tonight?



CK, you know we like ya here...but if that train doesn't come through, we're putting you on the tracks next Tuesday night.










I did take my USB DT/QAM tuner stick downstairs, and I don't see labels for anything except the OTA channels. So, unless someone tells me a QAM channel for HistoryHD...etc...


It did scan in a boatload more QAM channels than I seem to remember from last time (many of them encrypted, of course). And I did, through random QAM channel hopping, find Sprout - which I'm pretty sure isn't in the previous TWC/ex-Adelphia lineup anywhere.


We'll see...


----------



## hookbill

Guys, I might be ready to pull the trigger on purchasing the Samsung LN32A550 LCD 32" TiVo. The 3 year protection plan is 149.00 bucks. Do you think I should get the protection plan?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13758928
> 
> 
> I did take my USB DT/QAM tuner stick downstairs, and I don't see labels for anything except the OTA channels. So, unless someone tells me a QAM channel for HistoryHD...etc...



Which USB stick do you have? I recently purchased a KWorld Plus-TV (only $50) and it seems to work well for the price. Trying to get it to play nice with TS-Reader though, and not having a lot of success.


----------



## G3VIZIO

81 Digital and 77 Analog in Univ Hts. Sprout is on 81-4. 81-5 is Reelz. Couldn't find History HD yet. Sprout and Reelz are 480I.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, I'm glad to hear these other problems with navigator. I pulled up the diagnostic screen and found the problem-an error code. Under connections and tiers it says

"DVR Mode: 10(Disabled)" I don't know why the hell it would think the DVR is not enabled, it was last night. I'm really hoping this is a software issue that can be solved by one call, not a hardware issue. There's no way I'm getting another HDC box. I cancel and go OTA before I get another one of those POS.


mr bill you are the man!!! Someone needs to cut those snotty bitches at their office down a notch. I once had one with an attitude slamming equipment around and acting rude.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13759209
> 
> 
> 81 Digital and 77 Analog in Univ Hts. Sprout is on 81-4. 81-5 is Reelz. Couldn't find History HD yet. Sprout and Reelz are 480I.



Those are the two I found as well. I believe they are 480i in general (no HD versions).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13759208
> 
> 
> Which USB stick do you have? I recently purchased a KWorld Plus-TV (only $50) and it seems to work well for the price. Trying to get it to play nice with TS-Reader though, and not having a lot of success.



I have the common Pinnacle one that's in all the BB stores. I only got it since it was basically free for me after a flurry of BB giftcards at Christmas.










It's not that bad...it has its quirks, and the QAM support is in beta. They are also coming out with a next generation of them that supposedly has the LG 5th Gen tuner in it.


Since I have a faster laptop than the one I'd mentioned here, it has no problems with speed.


If I were buying it with my own money somewhere other than BB, I have always looked at the OnAirGT as an option. I had the Fusion5USB HDTV, but it died on me - for the second time, but out of warranty, this time.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13759015
> 
> 
> Guys, I might be ready to pull the trigger on purchasing the *Samsung LN32A550 LCD 32" TiVo*. The 3 year protection plan is 149.00 bucks. Do you think I should get the protection plan?










When everything you buy becomes a TiVo, it's time to lay off the Kool-Aid.


Personally I think protection plans are a waste of money. I've heard cases where you can ask for a deal on the protection plan which they'll actually drop the cost of the product over reducing the protection plan. Then you can return/cancel the protection plan and keep the savings on the product.

Consumer Reports: Why you don't need an extended warranty


----------



## hershsa

Woke up today to a channel realignment. I am in Mayfield Heights. It has the "new" HD channels (HGTV, History, etc) but I can't view them. Are these an additional fee or does TWC need to reset my box or something?


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13759015
> 
> 
> Guys, I might be ready to pull the trigger on purchasing the Samsung LN32A550 LCD 32" TiVo. The 3 year protection plan is 149.00 bucks. Do you think I should get the protection plan?



Personally, I would save the money. Just be sure to inspect the entire TV and check every input before your 30 day return window is up. Plus, I'm sure it comes with a standard manufacturer warranty.


----------



## truescotsman

Well we finally got the digital realignment last night.


AEHD and HistoryHD are a blank screen. HGTVHD had on infomericials this morning(so its working). I have Lifeline plus the HD package. I thought I would get the new HD channels since I have received all the HD channels in the past.(except the premium HD channels of course)


Good to here some are seeing the same thing then. Hope they get it worked out soon.


Truescostman


----------



## quern

Has anyone in the Mayfield Heights area found that when tuning into Fox HD via ATSC decoder that 8.001 is bringing up WJW HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13760368
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When everything you buy becomes a TiVo, it's time to lay off the Kool-Aid.
> 
> 
> Personally I think protection plans are a waste of money. I've heard cases where you can ask for a deal on the protection plan which they'll actually drop the cost of the product over reducing the protection plan. Then you can return/cancel the protection plan and keep the savings on the product.



Heh heh heh. About an hour before I wrote that I took a prescription sleep aid. That's my excuse but I've caught myself doing that previously and changed it to TV.


At this point I've removed the protection plan. I still havn't pulled the trigger on it. Here's the situation:



1. The Wega is not malfunctioning, it still gives a great picture and I'm not certain that my complain about seeing only part of the X on the FOX logal is legitimate enough to purchase a new TV Only a little piece of the eye on the CBS logo is cut off. And in calibration it just barely passes. I can only see part of the number but I can see it.


2. What the heck do I do with it? I can't throw it out, it's still too good to toss. And who the heck would purchase a non digital (remember it's "HD Ready") television. I don't think the tuner is digital And it weighs 200 lbs!

*If any of you guys want it I'll give it too you. PM me. We'll make arrangements for a pick up. Inundated, this has gotta be an offer you can't refuse.







*


edit: This offer may be subject to change if I decide not to purchase. Still if you're interested, let me know.










Maybe you have a relative you'd like to give it to. All you have to do is pick it up. I'll help carry to your SUV or truck. If you bring a car, forget it. I live in Bainbridge real close to Geauga Lake.


3. The real reason I want to do the conversion is ultimately now that they have solved the blu-ray vs HDTV DVD thing I'm also interested in purchasing a Blu-Ray DVD player. The Samsung LN32A550 is 1080p so it would give everything I would need. Also I'd be able to dust and clean in that back area I can't reach.


So there you have it. Any takers please let me know.


----------



## GregF2

Almost May and still no digital realignment for Amherst, OH. Unbelievable how poor TW is. The sad thing is I am excited just to get a few more HD channels when they should be offering much more.


----------



## bassguitarman

Got the channel realignment in Copley overnite. For sure this time. DVR functions havent returned to my 8300HD yet though.


----------



## pbarach

It's all over the business pages that Time Warner plans to spin off their TWC division.


----------



## Norm78

I live in Northfield, an ex-adelphia area and found out this morning that my HD8300 was updated overnight. All my recordings are gone and my DVR is not working. I notice others have had the same problem. Were any of you able to get your recordings back or get the DVR function working on your own or with a call to TW? I have a feeling this may turn in to a huge headache.


----------



## Inundated

The lineup is in here in ex-Adelphia land in western Summit County. I haven't checked for any missing channels yet...


And hookbill? I HAVE an HD set now.







But thanks for your generous offer.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/13760592
> 
> 
> Almost May and still no digital realignment for Amherst, OH. Unbelievable how poor TW is. The sad thing is I am excited just to get a few more HD channels when they should be offering much more.



I agree 100% !!!


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13759015
> 
> 
> Guys, I might be ready to pull the trigger on purchasing the Samsung LN32A550 LCD 32" TiVo. The 3 year protection plan is 149.00 bucks. Do you think I should get the protection plan?



Hook,

Forget the protection plan and use that money to upgrade to the Series 6 version of that model: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00141AYR8?m=ATVPDKIKX0DER 

Higher contrast ratio and quicker response time.


----------



## mgd6912




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13760684
> 
> 
> It's all over the business pages that Time Warner plans to spin off their TWC division.



I wonder what this means for TWC. I wonder if Adelphia will buy TWC







and then develope new innovative software for their cable boxes and do channel realignments


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/13761769
> 
> 
> I wonder what this means for TWC. I wonder if Adelphia will buy TWC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and then develope new innovative software for their cable boxes and do channel realignments



Given that "Adelphia" is now a skeleton crew dealing with their remaining bankruptcy issues and has no corporate assets, and given the fact that a number of Adelphia executives are in Federal prisons, I am not holding my breath for this...


----------



## Inundated

No Navigator update for either of my boxes...but the lineup is in both.


I can't get CNN International - it puts up a "call" message. And WBNX-HD is in the lineup, but didn't have any signal when I checked right before I left home at 9:30 or so.


----------



## hookbill

They moved Hallmark from 121 to channel 60. This is real interesting to me because my TiVo recognized the channel even though it had no guide data.


Usually when this happens TiVo will pick up the channel but no know what the channel is. They will probably add guide data soon.


Edit: I just looked at zap2it.com, they have data on both 121 and 60 for hallmark however there was nothing on 121 this morning.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13762787
> 
> 
> Usually when this happens TiVo will pick up the channel but no know what the channel is. They will probably add guide data soon.



I have stuff recording on Hallmark, but not today. A recording on GSN happened with no problems at 1 PM on the changed 219.


Did you run Guided Setup this morning? I did, and though I had to do it remotely after going to work, it worked...not without one hiccup, though.


When I first bought the TiVo, I was living in ZIP code 44321, and for whatever reason, I decided to change that to my current ZIP code.


Bad news, because unlike Zap2It, the TiVo guide only shows one TWC system for the ZIP code - the legacy Akron TWC system. It doesn't show the Cleveland-based system.


Changing back to 44321 fixed it, but not before I had to go do a dance with "does your system have X on this channel" a few times. I also had to reenter my wireless networking information, complete with WPA password.


----------



## orange5814

So anyone taking bets on Navigator this evening... "End of the month" here we come


----------



## Chris Isble

Got the new lineup here in Lyndhurst, but no Navigator yet.


The HD channels for A&E, HGTV, Food, and History all say call to subscribe. Are they being added to the HD tier only?


----------



## Inundated

If I remember my quick jaunt through the HD channels before I left home, A&E, HGTV and Food HD were all there on my box...I don't recall finding/viewing History HD.


On the SD side, CNN International and Biography both have "call to subscribe" messages... though I should get them as a Digital Basic subscriber (and get everything else in red on the channel lineup PDF).


I only have the Slingbox on the TiVo S2, so I can't check the HD stuff until tonight.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, I do have the tier, but those four channels are not in the HD Tier color on the channel lineup. I believe they're supposed to be included with the basic HD stuff.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/13764157
> 
> 
> Got the new lineup here in Lyndhurst, but no Navigator yet.
> 
> 
> The HD channels for A&E, HGTV, Food, and History all say call to subscribe. Are they being added to the HD tier only?



They're supposed to be free. From http://www.timewarnercable.com/North..._notices2.html 



> Quote:
> added to FREE HD - A&E HD, Food Network HD, HGTV HD and History HD


----------



## Chris Isble

Thanks paulmike3. I thought so, but I could not remember where I read it.


I'll give it a few days and see if it straightens itself out.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/13764602
> 
> 
> Thanks paulmike3. I thought so, but I could not remember where I read it.
> 
> 
> I'll give it a few days and see if it straightens itself out.



No prob... Didn't get a chance this morning to check if we got the realignment (Mayfield Hts). Hopefully it's not screwed up too bad.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13758928
> 
> 
> CK, you know we like ya here...but if that train doesn't come through, we're putting you on the tracks next Tuesday night.



So it looks like I've been spared from the railroad tracks, hmm?


----------



## Ben Music

Well, the train hasn't come thru the Elyria/Mentor (former Comcast)

area yet. Maybe I should throw myself on the tracks. Are we last on the list? I'm really tired of waiting. Any word on when?


Go Cavs,

Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13765346
> 
> 
> So it looks like I've been spared from the railroad tracks, hmm?



Yeah and moving a channel from a digital spot to an analog spot doesn't quite convince me that much is going on in my area. It does appear that some things are moving but very, very slowly.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/13765431
> 
> 
> Well, the train hasn't come thru the Elyria/Mentor (former Comcast)
> 
> area yet. Maybe I should throw myself on the tracks. Are we last on the list? I'm really tired of waiting. Any word on when?
> 
> 
> Go Cavs,
> 
> Ben Music



I believe yours is a hybrid area where both Moto and SA boxes exist on the same plant. This likely has to be done in phases, once for each of the different models as they would be controlled by different systems. At least it's only two systems; I can remember when there was GI, Motorola and two entirely different types of Zenith boxes in the area. And GI had a dizzying array of model numbers. The situation is better nowadays.


Hang in there... it shouldn't be long. Listening to the rails again...


----------



## orange5814

Twinsburg is still a "legacy" system as of this evening. Let's see maybe navigator and the new channel alignment by AM. Yeah, we'll see. I would have better luck betting on the Cavs.


----------



## smoti17

New line up in Shaker (44120) last night too. My SA3250HD was happy from the off, has everything where it should be, but CNNI and CNBC World are likewise showing as not in my package when all the literature says they should. My TiVo Series3 with M cablecard initially showed a blank screen for all channels. Neither my S2 nor S3 gave an option for "digital rebuild" during guided setup, going through it seemed to pick up the correct channel listing anyway.


After guided setup on the S3, what channels were displayed for the channel number seemed to be messed up, and some just gave a blank screen. So I did a restart of the box. After the restart I got an "acquiring channels" message, and then a firmware upgrade to the cablecard for a nail-biting 20 mins, followed by a worrying "cannot find any channels for live TV", but after all that all my channels seem to be present and correct.


Also did a channel scan on my QAM-capable DVD recorder, it's giving me 78 analog and 98 digital, which is definitely a lot more digital, but I'll need to find time to pick through them to see which are new clear vs encrypted.


Got there eventually !


----------



## G3VIZIO

Wbnx-hd In Univ Hts On Qam Tuner 102-1..new Channel


----------



## Inundated

All the HD channels are in, including the four new ones (HistoryHD included), and WBNX-HD is now present.


Still getting the "subscribe" message on CNNInternational and Biography.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13765346
> 
> 
> So it looks like I've been spared from the railroad tracks, hmm?



Lucky you!







Though the Comcast folks may be next...


----------



## nickdawg

I can't wait for everyone else to get "navigatored".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13767670
> 
> 
> I can't wait for everyone else to get "navigatored".



One of the guys over on the AVS TiVo thread refers to it as the "Crapagator."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13767622
> 
> 
> All the HD channels are in, including the four new ones (HistoryHD included), and WBNX-HD is now present.
> 
> 
> Still getting the "subscribe" message on CNNInternational and Biography.



How are you seeing this? Via Qam? My HD channels are still in the 700's and my music channels are still in the 400's.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13768774
> 
> 
> How are you seeing this? Via Qam? My HD channels are still in the 700's and my music channels are still in the 400's.



Oh, you don't have the new lineup?


Seriously.


----------



## nosey313

Sagamore Hills still has the old lineup. I'm betting we're going to be the last & it's still going to take another month. I really hate TWC.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

Got the new lineup in Columbia Station. Can someone tell me how to get into the diagnostic menus of the SA8300HD DVR so I can check things out?


Thanks.


----------



## mobgre

New lineup here in North Olmsted yesterday. All new HD channels coming in fine.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/13769427
> 
> 
> Got the new lineup in Columbia Station. Can someone tell me how to get into the diagnostic menus of the SA8300HD DVR so I can check things out?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Hold the pause on the remote until the DVR starts flashing. Then use +- button in upper right corner of the remote to view the different screens.


----------



## orange5814

Twinsburg still has the old lineup. TWC sucks. Plain and simple. I wish at my job, when I said April it was OK if it meant May, or who knows, June.


There is no accountablility. I guess I will just vote with my wallet. I am moving to my new house (only 1 mile away) in 3 weeks and was going to keep TWC, but maybe D* isn't such a bad idea.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/13769583
> 
> 
> Twinsburg still has the old lineup. TWC sucks. Plain and simple. I wish at my job, when I said April it was OK if it meant May, or who knows, June.
> 
> 
> There is no accountablility. I guess I will just vote with my wallet. I am moving to my new house (only 1 mile away) in 3 weeks and was going to keep TWC, but maybe D* isn't such a bad idea.



Yes, TWC does suck. I just bought a house a couple miles away from where I live and I will be going to D* as soon as I move in in July. Can't wait to get rid of TWC and their rediculous handful of HD channels and garbage internet service that cuts out every hour for 5-10 minutes.










On a side note, we just got the realignment in Mayfield Hts. All the new HD channels come in with the exception of FSOHD. Anyone else just have a black screen? The channel guide has program info.


----------



## G3VIZIO

Are you all seeing the new HD channels through the box or the QAM tuner in the TV?


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13769952
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get rid of TWC and their rediculous handful of HD channels and garbage internet service that cuts out every hour for 5-10 minutes.



Does any one else have this problem? I thought it was my three year old wireless router. Seems like every day I have to go upstairs and unplug the modem & router and restart. Is this really the TWC connection? Even more fuel for my fire.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13768919
> 
> 
> Oh, you don't have the new lineup?
> 
> 
> Seriously.



No. I don't have the new lineup.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13770331
> 
> 
> Are you all seeing the new HD channels through the box or the QAM tuner in the TV?



Through the box.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13770852
> 
> 
> Does any one else have this problem? I thought it was my three year old wireless router. Seems like every day I have to go upstairs and unplug the modem & router and restart. Is this really the TWC connection? Even more fuel for my fire.



It's not my router, and it's not the modem (had it swapped out). It *could* be the wiring at my apartment bldg, but they supposedly checked it. Once they checked it, it stopped for about a week. Now it's been on and off - some days are good, others it's unusable.


Edit - When the problem occurs, the modem cable light is lit, but the receive light is off. The transmit light blinks a bit, but it's clear that there is no transmission going on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13659520
> 
> 
> I get the feeling SDV is not too far down the road. While playing around with the Navigator diagnostics screens, I noticed several items about SDV. It said SDV was not enabled, but Navigator is the firmware that supports SDV. Once these lineup changes are done and the rest of the boxes are "Navigatored"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , SDV might not be far off.



Interesting. And not great news for me. In a sense.


Basically I only use broadcast networks for my HD recordings. The ones that are still in analog I watch are FX, USA. I do record TNT HD in the summer.


I know that not all channels will go to SDV and I'm sure that the broadcast HD channels won't. But TNT might.


Thanks Nickdawg, I know I can always count on you with "good news."


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13771248
> 
> 
> Edit - When the problem occurs, the modem cable light is lit, but the receive light is off. The transmit light blinks a bit, but it's clear that there is no transmission going on.



Same here. It's really annoying. Where I live I don't have an alternative. My telco is Windstream and their options are slower than cable. I don't want to downgrade.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13770852
> 
> 
> Does any one else have this problem? I thought it was my three year old wireless router. Seems like every day I have to go upstairs and unplug the modem & router and restart. Is this really the TWC connection? Even more fuel for my fire.



I don't have this issue in Twinsburg. Internet hasn't gone out for a very long time. I download huge files all the time every day and if the internet does go out, it times out. That rarely happens and I honestly can't recall when the last time it did. Sounds like something in your specific building or block.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13770852
> 
> 
> Does any one else have this problem? I thought it was my three year old wireless router. Seems like every day I have to go upstairs and unplug the modem & router and restart. Is this really the TWC connection? Even more fuel for my fire.



No issues for me from TWC internet. I've had to reboot the modem and router maybe twice in 2 years.


----------



## mobgre

It is so frickin funny how when we were on Adelphia everybody complained how Adelphia sucked and you couldn't wait for the savior TWC. Now that they are here everyone is saying how TWC sucks. Too funny!


----------



## paule123

Looks like you ATT UVerse people may be getting 2 HD streams soon ... rolling it out in St. Louis ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post13771923


----------



## HD MM

 From Multi Channel News........ 


It's official: Time Warner Cable will be spun off from the parent company, Time Warner Inc. CEO Jeff Bewkes announced on Wednesday, although he said the details of the spinoff have yet to be determined.


We've decided that a complete structural separation of Time Warner Cable, under the right circumstances, is in the best interests of both companies' shareholders," Bewkes said, in a statement. "We're working hard on an agreement with Time Warner Cable, which we expect to finalize soon. At the same time, we'll continue to pursue the rest of our aggressive agenda that we believe will deliver increasing value to our shareholders.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13770852
> 
> 
> Does any one else have this problem? I thought it was my three year old wireless router. Seems like every day I have to go upstairs and unplug the modem & router and restart. Is this really the TWC connection? Even more fuel for my fire.



- Depending on the modem, unplugging it may not re-set it. If the modem has a battery, unplugging it will do nothing. Try pressing and holding the re-set button.


- Are you sure the problem is not your wireless connection with your router? Are wired devices also losing internet connection?


- DHCP working properly?


This routine usually clears up connection issues (if it is not a signal problem from your ISP):


1. Disconnect any/all devices from router (wired and wireless)

2. Unplug router power cord, leave unplugged

3. Press and hold (10 seconds) RE-SET on you cable modem

4. Wait till cable modem COMPLETELY recycles itself

5. Plug router power cord back in

6. Wait till router COMPLETELY recycles itself

7. Re-connect all devices (wired and wireless)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13769952
> 
> 
> On a side note, we just got the realignment in Mayfield Hts. All the new HD channels come in with the exception of FSOHD. Anyone else just have a black screen? The channel guide has program info.



There is no such thing as "FSN Ohio HD" 24/7, unlike the recently changed SportsTime Ohio HD.


FSN doesn't send upconverted SD programming on this channel, so it'll be blank unless the Cavaliers or Blue Jackets have an HD game. (And since the Cavaliers HD games are being handled by the national networks, and since the Blue Jackets are also over for this season, that'll be roughly October.







)


Oh, wait, there are some national FSN HD games, like some college football in the fall...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13771160
> 
> 
> No. I don't have the new lineup.



I didn't realize that.


I guess the ex-Adelphia systems out of Macedonia weren't converted!


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

No problems in Columbia Station with TWC internet. I've rebooted my modem maybe 2 times in 5 years.


----------



## paulmike3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13772804
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "FSN Ohio HD" 24/7, unlike the recently changed SportsTime Ohio HD.



That's what I figured, but I find it weird that there's program info for the whole day on the new HD channel (unlike the old channel 798 where it just said "No Info" in the guide), just no picture or sound.


I guess it will just be another channel to skip over on the list. There's like 4 HD Showcase channels and a couple others not in use. Strange.


----------



## lefkas

Has the TWC channel reorg caused any changes in the QAM lineup for the Canton area ? I haven't noticed any new channels or channel numbers.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13773462
> 
> 
> Has the TWC channel reorg caused any changes in the QAM lineup for the Canton area ? I haven't noticed any new channels or channel numbers.



Do you have WBNX-HD? I'm in the Canton/N.Canton area nad have had different new HD channels off and on over the last couple months, but they're here fore one day then gone the next. I thought we were set a few weeks ago when WB-HD came in for 2 days and then it was gone. Still waiting here for things to settle I guess.

I've been wondering if something was wrong with my line, since others in Canton had reported getting WB-HD. How 'bout u?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paulmike3* /forum/post/13771248
> 
> 
> When the problem occurs, the modem cable light is lit, but the receive light is off. The transmit light blinks a bit, but it's clear that there is no transmission going on.



If the receive light is off, you've lost block sync. This is usually an RF issue, due to either low levels, high levels or interference from another device.


If it's a Motorola modem, wait till it comes online, then go to 192.168.100.1 and look at the Signal page. Your receive signal (downstream, shown at the top of the page if I recall) should be between +15 to -15dbmv. That's the SCTE spec. If it's out of that range, you've got RF issues. It could be as simple as a loose fitting, squirrel damage on the outdoor drop, etc.


If you're living in an apartment building, it's also possible that someone might have been tampering with the wiring in the distribution box.


Either way, if you've got a signal that's out of whack, call them and tell them what you found from the modem's diag pages. They'll come out and fix it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13772811
> 
> 
> I didn't realize that.
> 
> 
> I guess the ex-Adelphia systems out of Macedonia weren't converted!



We are no longer out of Macedonia. We are out of Concord now.


----------



## k2rj

Well the train came through Solon sometime since Monday (I just flew back from Atlanta and my wife is still out of town until tomorrow, so I don't know exactly when the whistle blew...) I have all the new HD content on the 400-channels as well as most of the digital channels on the printed channel guide. Biography channel is still on the digital+ tier so there's still some adjustments to be made, but everything looks normal except for some blank program guide info on a couple of the new channels. My 8300HD is still running SARA and my recordings are intact. I did notice, however, that nothing was recorded last night... I thought I had set up CSI-NY.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13774766
> 
> 
> We are no longer out of Macedonia. We are out of Concord now.



Oh, well, wherever that hub/headend is, it isn't converted, but the ones up out of Cleveland (Lakeside) are. I have it clear over here out of the Bath/Copley/Northampton branch!


Maybe I'm confused. I think we determined once that you DON'T have the old Western Reserve lineup.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13774961
> 
> 
> Oh, well, wherever that hub/headend is, it isn't converted, but the ones up out of Cleveland (Lakeside) are. I have it clear over here out of the Bath/Copley/Northampton branch!
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm confused. I think we determined once that you DON'T have the old Western Reserve lineup.



The home office for the field techs is a different issue from the originating point of the feed. I think Hookbill is on the Macedonia feed. There's an easy way to verify this, Hookbill - tune to Channel 9. If you see "Cable 9" Public Access, you're fed from Macedonia.

Just a guess, of course.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13774961
> 
> 
> Oh, well, wherever that hub/headend is, it isn't converted, but the ones up out of Cleveland (Lakeside) are. I have it clear over here out of the Bath/Copley/Northampton branch!
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm confused. I think we determined once that you DON'T have the old Western Reserve lineup.



No, we determined I did. Remember WOIO is on 704 here.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13775552
> 
> 
> No, we determined I did. Remember WOIO is on 704 here.



List your first 15 analog channels...


Oh, and I think I figured something out.


The new 100-plus channels that are mirrors of the analog channels are indeed just that - mirrors.


You can tell when you tune to, say, 350 (CNN)...it doesn't take the added second or so to decode a digital video signal. And if you flip between both channels - 34 and 350 - the box doesn't even try retuning!


So, it would appear at least for now, "digital cable" needs an asterisk for the mirrored analog channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13768771
> 
> 
> One of the guys over on the AVS TiVo thread refers to it as the "Crapagator."



Crapigator is an understatement! ******* steaming pile of horse **** is a more accurate description.










Another thing I've discovered that I HATE is now the titles of on demand crap are included in the title search. Rather than just seeing shows on live TV, I'm now forced to scroll through pages of on demand shows.


----------



## hookbill

OK guys, I pulled the trigger last night. I purchased an LG 37LG30 HD TV to replace my Sony Wega 30" HD ready TV. It will fit in my entertainment center just great and has great specs.


I originally was thinking of 1080p but I couldn't find anything that was larger then 32" to work with and I didn't want just a 2" diagonal change. My other HDTV is still working quite well it's just big and bulky and as I said it's lost just a little bit on the edges. Only really noticeable on certain logos like FOX'S and ABC. Half the X is cut off on the FOX logo. And I received a PM from HD MM and not to stir up controversey he mentioned that in his opinion 1080p was overated and I might just consider 720p and he also mentioned bigger. Also bigger makes it more justifiable with the wife.









*I will pick up this TV today. Once again I'm reminding you. If anyone wants my Sony Wega KV-30HS420 I am offering it for free. Got a relative or kid? Some friend you've been trying to introduce to HDTV. It's free. I've got the manual. Just PM me.*


There is a guy at work that is kind of interested but he doesn't know that much about televisions and he asked stupid questions like "is it cable ready?" I don't like the guy that much and rather not have him at my house, I'd sooner give it to one of you guys.


So let me know, please.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13777277
> 
> 
> ........... And I received a PM from HD MM and not to stir up controversey he mentioned that in his opinion 1080p was overated and I might just consider 720p and he also mentioned bigger. Also bigger makes it more justifiable with the wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..................



HD MM is absolutely correct, especially with smaller screen sizes (less than 42"). Unless you are into HD gaming, HDM (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) and/or have a much larger screen (50" range) than 1080p would make little if any difference from normal viewing distances.










Same is true for the difference between 720p and 1080i. From a normal viewing distance, again especially for smaller screens, there is virtually no recognizable difference in PQ.


----------



## HD MM

Congrat's on the new TV Hook. To echo Toby, 720p on that size set and seating from a normal distance will work well for you. I'm also glad you opted to go with the 37" instead of the 32". IMO, substituting a 32" 1080p (original set you had in mind) for a 37" 720p for a similar price was a good move. The additional 5" should benefit you more than 1080p at that size.


I see an entire weekend of calibrating and sitting in front of the new HDTV in store for you! Enjoy!










IMO, the advantage of 1080p isn't fully taken advantage of unless sitting at an ideal distance from the screen. This is where 1080p would benefit over 720p.

From Electronic House...... 


THX recommends that a 42-in. 1080p set be viewed from four feet away. And if you want to sit seven feet way, THX says the HDTV should be at least 70-in.! (The THX calculation distance calculation is diagonal screen size divided by .84— see THX Home Setup. )


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13774138
> 
> 
> Do you have WBNX-HD? I'm in the Canton/N.Canton area nad have had different new HD channels off and on over the last couple months, but they're here fore one day then gone the next. I thought we were set a few weeks ago when WB-HD came in for 2 days and then it was gone. Still waiting here for things to settle I guess.
> 
> I've been wondering if something was wrong with my line, since others in Canton had reported getting WB-HD. How 'bout u?



No. I have yet to notice WBNX-HD on my QAM channels here in N. Canton.


----------



## terryfoster

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but I've found this chart to be very useful to illustrate which resolutions work best for viewing distance and screen size. It might not be THX standards, but I'm guessing it's a little more realistic.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13777869
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but I've found this chart to be very useful to illustrate which resolutions work best for viewing distance and screen size. It might not be THX standards, but I'm guessing it's a little more realistic.



You're right Terry, that illustration is a bit more realistic. I'd imagine the THX recommendations are more for a dedicated room with a front projector and screen.


----------



## ajstan99

FWIW, while the perceptible difference between a 720p and 1080p decreases as the ratio of viewing distace to screen size increases, there are other considerations that affect the quality of the image.


Also, while there are exceptions in the video processing sequence that vary from component to component, I believe the following is typical for a majority of TVs out there today.


With a 1080p TV, a 1080p Blu-ray signal is digitally mapped 1:1 from the source providing the process for the best possible image. A 1080i TV signal is deinterlaced and (signal compression from your provider aside) can theoretically provide a 1080p-like experience if the deinterlacer (on either the TV or the decoder box) is capable. A 720p TV signal will need to be scaled to 1080p, so the potential for artifacts and a fuzzier picture exists.


A "720p" LCD TV has an actual pixel resolution of 1366 x 768, so there is zero chance of getting 1:1 digital pixel mapping from any source (except for maybe a PC over an analog VGA connection). Every HD image (720p, 1080i, 1080p) must be scaled by the TV to fit the screen, and with the cases of 1080i, deinterlaced as well. Depending upon the TV, the process could entail a down-res to 540 then upscaling to 1366x768. So, in-effect, a 1080p Blu-ray disk may only deliver 540 lines of resolution to the TV - not much more than a standard 480-line DVD. Also, even a 720p TV image, the purported "native" mode will need to be upscaled to 1366x768 (not a large jump, but still, not native).


Hope this helps.


P.S. Do you think this information would be helpful in convincing the wife that I need to upgrade my 720p projector and 1366x768 LCD TV to 1080p?


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

One other thing concerning internet dropouts, I have a Linksys wireless router and my old cordless phone would block the signal from the router whenever it rang. QUite annoying.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/13779002
> 
> 
> One other thing concerning internet dropouts, I have a Linksys wireless router and my old cordless phone would block the signal from the router whenever it rang. QUite annoying.



Yup. Though usually changing to another of the 11 channels on the router greatly reduces that interference problem. This same interference problem can happen with WiFi routers nearby sharing the same feq and channel.


My laptop WiFi picks up 8 different WiFi networks around my home. My network is on ch. 11, someone else is on ch. 4. All the rest are on the factory default ch. 6. Although I wasn't getting any signal drops due to interference, by me switching from ch. 6 to ch. 11 I gained about a 20% increase in signal strength as I am now not competing with all the other ch. 6's.










Another fix is to upgrade (or downgrade) your cordless phone. WiFi G is 2.4ghz so if your phone is also 2.4ghz there can be interference issues. Upgrade the phone to 5.8ghz or downgrade the phone to 900mhz.


----------



## quern

I'm hoping someone can point me to the correct contact for this issue at TWC. I live in Mayfield Heights and just picked up a Sharp LCD for my bedroom. I am using the QAM tuner to get the HD and Digital channels. When I try to go to Fox HD (8.001) I end up receiving channel 5 in HD. This seems to me that the mapping at TWC is incorrect.. but I'm not 100% positive. I tried calling TWC tech line and explained the situation and that I was using a QAM tuner. Low and behold, the lady didn't understand what I was telling her. I explained in more detail and after being put on hold a few times I was told that if I wasn't willing to rent another HD box from TWC they couldn't help me. It would seem, in my opinion, that if they are going to broadcast the digital and HD free feeds over their cable then the tech support should understand how this works and that a person doesn't need the cable box. Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on how to resolve this, contact, etc.. please let me know. I'd have to send an e-mail about something this trivial to the main contact you all talk about for something that, to me at least, shouldn't be hard to communicate and get an answer on.


Thanks in advance.


Jerry


----------



## Smarty-pants

On account of her being such a *****, I'd make sure I included her name in my email to Steve Fry. The problem is trivial, but the service is not. She should have made sure to forward the info to the engineers working on the project. I think it is probably a glitch within the new "realignment phase" going on right now. Again, I personally would email Fry and complain of the customer service you received with a request to fix the mapping.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/13781829
> 
> 
> I'm hoping someone can point me to the correct contact for this issue at TWC. I live in Mayfield Heights and just picked up a Sharp LCD for my bedroom. I am using the QAM tuner to get the HD and Digital channels. When I try to go to Fox HD (8.001) I end up receiving channel 5 in HD. This seems to me that the mapping at TWC is incorrect.. but I'm not 100% positive..........



Did you do a full QAM scan? QAM tuners need to scan the entire system of available ch.'s to tune in the ch.'s that are in the clear.


Also, I highly doubt FOX ch. 8 in HD will be on 8-1 via clear QAM. The HD feeds are usually in the 300 to 700 range and have no correspondence to the actual ch #. I think as long as the analog feeds are mapped correctly the cable co. is under no obligation to properly map the HD feeds via clear QAM.


QAM is free, and you get what you pay for.


----------



## nickdawg

*Quick question/survey for anyone with a SARA IPG or Tivo or anything other than Navigator:*


Go to WUAB-HD(706) and check what's on at 7PM. According to Navigator there is 2.5 Men and the MNTV movie on tonight. I just heard on 19ActionNews at 5 the Cavs game is on tonight at 7. Titan TV confirms that the Cavs game is on at 7PM on WUAB-DT. Also another game on ESPN has the teams listed on Titan TV. Navigator is showing the ESPNHD game as "Teams TBA".


Please check and report back. Thanks


----------



## nickdawg

*Time Warner Cable Navigator™*


NAVIGATOR is the new on-screen program guide designed to enhance the way you find what to watch on television. It's the smartest and easiest way to watch television ever.


The innovative new Time Warner Cable Navigator will change the way you watch television by making it amazingly simple to watch and record the shows you care about most. This new guide features the most comprehensive redesign in digital cable history, bringing you the kind of ease and options you’ve always wanted, as well as some you never dreamed of.


New enhancements include easier-to-understand screens, a consolidated Access Menu and a guide to what’s on now. *Plus, this new platform will allow us to add more new channels and HD channels.*


This description from their website sounds like a loaf of crap. But check out the statement in bold. Add more new HD channels. Sounds like SDV _may_ be coming soon here.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13782238
> 
> *Quick question/survey for anyone with a SARA IPG or Tivo or anything other than Navigator:*
> 
> 
> Go to WUAB-HD(706) and check what's on at 7PM. According to Navigator there is 2.5 Men and the MNTV movie on tonight. I just heard on 19ActionNews at 5 the Cavs game is on tonight at 7. Titan TV confirms that the Cavs game is on at 7PM on WUAB-DT. Also another game on ESPN has the teams listed on Titan TV. Navigator is showing the ESPNHD game as "Teams TBA".
> 
> 
> Please check and report back. Thanks



The SARA IPG shows 2.5 Men on 406 (WUAB-HD) They are in fact showing the Cavs game.


If you want to watch the game in HD, it is on ESPN2HD (431).


----------



## JoeySR

Do a complete scan and Fox 8 should show up on 8.1 - TWC

provides all the network HD channels with basic cable - Free HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/13783063
> 
> 
> Do a complete scan and Fox 8 should show up on 8.1 - TWC
> 
> provides all the network HD channels with basic cable - Free HD.



I saw a model of Hitachi set that insisted on adding .1 to some channel numbers, i.e. 5.1 would show up as 5,2 and 8.1 would show up as 8.2. Weird.


----------



## quern

Thanks everyone. I did perform a full scan twice this week and 8.1 still maps to WJW HD. I think I'll e-mail Steve Fry.


I did try to tun into channel 300 but it states my signal strength is too low. I purchased a 13.00 booster from RatShack but it didn't work at all w/ my Sharp. Either I got a bad unit or have a bad cable. Anyway, I'll e-mail and keep testing things out.


Thanks all.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/13783417
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone. I did perform a full scan twice this week and 8.1 still maps to WJW HD. I think I'll e-mail Steve Fry.
> 
> 
> I did try to tun into channel 300 but it states my signal strength is too low. I purchased a 13.00 booster from RatShack but it didn't work at all w/ my Sharp. Either I got a bad unit or have a bad cable. Anyway, I'll e-mail and keep testing things out.
> 
> 
> Thanks all.



Channel 8.1 *is* WJW-HD. Did something change?


----------



## nickdawg

What's channel 300? There isn't a 300 but there is a 301-ESPN.


----------



## hookbill

I always thought my Sony Wega was a great TV. I felt real bad taking it out of commision.


Then I set up my new LG 37LG30.


I turned it on and put my recording of the FOX 8 evening news on off my TiVo S3. I nearly freaked out, I could not believe how good the picture was. I didn't have a chance to do a calibration so I just set it in Cinema Mode. My wife comes downstairs comes down stairs and I said "look, you can not only see the entire Fox logo, you can see beyond it." Then she said "That's not what I noticed. Look at the detail (Dick Goddards Weather Map)."


Anyway we watched Desperate Housewives and she kept remarking about how she could really see the difference.


I've had several people pm me about the Wega. Right now HD MM has claims on it but I told him to get back to me by tomorrow or else the next person in line was going to get it. I don't want that thing in my garage, I'm afraid I'll back up and hit it.










So HD MM, I want to see an email by tomorrow morning. I sent you a pm.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/13781829
> 
> 
> I'm hoping someone can point me to the correct contact for this issue at TWC. I live in Mayfield Heights and just picked up a Sharp LCD for my bedroom. I am using the QAM tuner to get the HD and Digital channels. When I try to go to Fox HD (8.001) I end up receiving channel 5 in HD. This seems to me that the mapping at TWC is incorrect.. but I'm not 100% positive. I tried calling TWC tech line and explained the situation and that I was using a QAM tuner. Low and behold, the lady didn't understand what I was telling her. I explained in more detail and after being put on hold a few times I was told that if I wasn't willing to rent another HD box from TWC they couldn't help me. It would seem, in my opinion, that if they are going to broadcast the digital and HD free feeds over their cable then the tech support should understand how this works and that a person doesn't need the cable box. Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on how to resolve this, contact, etc.. please let me know. I'd have to send an e-mail about something this trivial to the main contact you all talk about for something that, to me at least, shouldn't be hard to communicate and get an answer on.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Jerry




I live in University Heights and Fox 8HD is 8-1, NBCHD is 3-1, ABC HD is 5-1, 43 HD is 43-1, PBS HD is 25-1, TNT HD is 88-3, WBNX HD is 102-1, STO is 106-1, Discovery HD is 86-3. Today I did a scan and received 77 analog and 86 digital. I actually tuned into Starz on Demand with the qam tuner and watched a movie. As soon as the movie ended the tv went to channel 1 by itself. There are a handful of new blank -1 channels. I hope they will have something on them soon. As for TWC they have no clue about QAM. When Fox HD was unavailable during the Super Bowl the lady insisted there was no way I could get HD without their box. I of course kept trying to tell her she was wrong. She kept putting me on hold to check with others and finally told me a supervisor will call me. I never got the call. I plugged in a cheap set of rabbit ears and watched the Super Bowl OTA in HD on Fox.


----------



## G3VIZIO

Anyone else have 102-2? All it has on it is a graphic "HD SPORTS" and some repeating dramatic music. It's an HD picture.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13783757
> 
> 
> I always thought my Sony Wega was a great TV. I felt real bad taking it out of commision.
> 
> 
> Then I set up my new LG 37LG30.
> 
> 
> I turned it on and put my recording of the FOX 8 evening news on off my TiVo S3. I nearly freaked out, I could not believe how good the picture was. I didn't have a chance to do a calibration so I just set it in Cinema Mode. My wife comes downstairs comes down stairs and I said "look, you can not only see the entire Fox logo, you can see beyond it." Then she said "That's not what I noticed. Look at the detail (Dick Goddards Weather Map)."
> 
> 
> Anyway we watched Desperate Housewives and she kept remarking about how she could really see the difference.
> 
> 
> I've had several people pm me about the Wega. Right now HD MM has claims on it but I told him to get back to me by tomorrow or else the next person in line was going to get it. I don't want that thing in my garage, I'm afraid I'll back up and hit it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So HD MM, I want to see an email by tomorrow morning. I sent you a pm.



What did she do to get the punishment of watching FOX News? Burn dinner?










And who records the news? LOL! Actually I do. I've recorded Action News at 5 to see triv tv when I'm not home.

















And goddard in HD, ewww














The funeral home people do a pretty good job on him each night.


----------



## nickdawg

After a call to TW the DVR is working again. The guy did a quick reboot and all my shows are back. He also said this has been a problem with the conversion. When the box downloads sometimes it "forgets" it's a DVR and those functions don't work.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13783979
> 
> 
> She kept putting me on hold to check with others and finally told me a supervisor will call me. I never got the call. I plugged in a cheap set of rabbit ears and watched the Super Bowl OTA in HD on Fox.



When a CSR tells you that they will have a supervisor call you they are flat out lying. I have never got a call from a supervisor via a CSR, or had a problem resolved beyond the norm that was suppose to be sent to a CSR.


We had a meeting today where I work and they talked about wanting the quality level of service up to match certain other companies. Time Warner was mentioned, my boss worked their.


After the meeting I told him that if he wants me to think for one minute that we don't do a better job then TW he's full of bull pucky. There is no way that my company provides lower quality customer service then Time Warner.


I told him if he truly believes that I have some nice beach front property in Nevada I'd like to sell him, because that's just as true as that horse manure speach he just made.


He looked a bit embarrassed and kind of shrugged his shoulders like "yeah well, you know I gotta do this."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13784086
> 
> 
> What did she do to get the punishment of watching FOX News? Burn dinner?



Nope she brought home Chinese. Anyway my wife doesn't cook. She ruined a frozen pizza once. Seriously. I do the cooking.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13784086
> 
> 
> And goddard in HD, ewww
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funeral home people do a pretty good job on him each night.



Hey, give the old dude some credit. He's been in the game a long time and I'm sure he does it because he loves it. Kind of like Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones. They sure as hell don't do it for the money.


Not that Dick Goddard has nearly as much as any of those dudes. And he loves animals! How can you not like a guy like that?


Sure he doesn't know how to push his buttons on his computer thing and screws up all the time but what the hell, they are never right about the weather and it's interesting to see him get confused by new technology.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13784153
> 
> 
> Hey, give the old dude some credit. He's been in the game a long time and I'm sure he does it because he loves it. Kind of like Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones. They sure as hell don't do it for the money.
> 
> 
> Not that Dick Goddard has nearly as much as any of those dudes. And he loves animals! How can you not like a guy like that?
> 
> 
> Sure he doesn't know how to push his buttons on his computer thing and screws up all the time but what the hell, they are never right about the weather and it's interesting to see him get confused by new technology.



Yeah, he does like the animals. So do I. I give him that plus he's 1000x better than Bernier. I can't stand Bernier's politics or shtick. I flip the channel if he's on.


And gotta love the way Goddard always sounds like he's ****faced when he does the evening weather report.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13777823
> 
> 
> No. I have yet to notice WBNX-HD on my QAM channels here in N. Canton.



Thanks for the reply, still holding out hope I guess


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13781985
> 
> 
> Also, I highly doubt FOX ch. 8 in HD will be on 8-1 via clear QAM. The HD feeds are usually in the 300 to 700 range and have no correspondence to the actual ch #. I think as long as the analog feeds are mapped correctly the cable co. is under no obligation to properly map the HD feeds via clear QAM.



Actually, channel numbers in the 200-999 range are just as fictitious as the low channel mappings. Most QAM channels on cable are transmitted somewhere in the 80-120 range.


On T/W in the eastern suburbs, WJW is transmitted on channel 105.2. WEWS is on 105.1. Each is coded with the "correct" virtual channel - WJW is 8, WEWS is 5.


For the record, WKYC and WUAB share channel 104, while WOIO and WVIZ are on 113.


WBNXHD is on 101.5 as of May 1st. It is incorrectly coded as virtual channel 0. Despite the fact that they are encoding it as subchannel 5, there does not seem to be anything else on channel 101 at present.


(In all cases above, I'm talking about the HD channels. The SD channels are on different frequencies, and I don't even bother to look for them.)


It occurs to me that some readers may not understand how two (or more) channels can share one physical channel. The answer is that the data streams for the two channels are interleaved into a single stream. Your cable box pulls in that stream and discards all of the data except for the channel that you're watching. So it's just one physical broadcast, but it contains the data for two or more channels. T/W can put as many as a dozen SD channels on one physical channel. In HD, the number is usually no more than 5.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13783979
> 
> 
> I live in University Heights and Fox 8HD is 8-1, NBCHD is 3-1, ABC HD is 5-1, 43 HD is 43-1, PBS HD is 25-1, TNT HD is 88-3, WBNX HD is 102-1, STO is 106-1, Discovery HD is 86-3.......



Then TWC is doing something right!







Seems you are getting proper ch. mapping even for local HD's via QAM. Not so with my WOW service (and most other clear QAM systems I've heard of). WOW has all the local HD's in the 200's. To WOW's credit they have not played the "clear QAM shuffle" in moving the QAM ch's around. The local HD's in the 200's have remained consistent since I first messed with QAM over a year ago.


I rarely mess with QAM as I use OTA for locals, but proper ch mapping would certainly be nice in clear QAM.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13785044
> 
> 
> Actually, channel numbers in the 200-999 range are just as fictitious as the low channel mappings. Most QAM channels on cable are transmitted somewhere in the 80-120 range.......




Not on WOW (see above post).


----------



## hookbill

It seems my new HDTV has a qam tuner. So my thoughts are in order for me to access this I would split before my TiVo S3 and go to the back of the TV directly. Correct?


I'm not certain I want to do that but it sounds like something that might be fun to play with....you know something I know absolutely nothing about.....on a brand new tv. That way if I break something I can still return it in the first two weeks or 30 days or whatever.


----------



## quern




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13783615
> 
> 
> Channel 8.1 *is* WJW-HD. Did something change?



I should clarify better. Yes, 8.1 does show up as it is mapping to WJW-HD which would be correct... but it actually displays channel 5 in HD. So the info my tv gains states WJW HD but I really receive WEWS HD. Sorry for the confusion. I know I have the wrong channel, just mixed up the call letters.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13782238
> 
> *Quick question/survey for anyone with a SARA IPG or Tivo or anything other than Navigator:*
> 
> 
> Go to WUAB-HD(706) and check what's on at 7PM. According to Navigator there is 2.5 Men and the MNTV movie on tonight. I just heard on 19ActionNews at 5 the Cavs game is on tonight at 7. Titan TV confirms that the Cavs game is on at 7PM on WUAB-DT. Also another game on ESPN has the teams listed on Titan TV. Navigator is showing the ESPNHD game as "Teams TBA".
> 
> 
> Please check and report back. Thanks



The EPG on my E* DVR also had the wrong program info for WUAB. Since Game 6 was only an "if needed" situation WUAB had to have it's regular programming ready in the guide data stream. FSN Ohio, being an RSN, probably gets updated more rapidly by Tribune Media (the company that supplies the EPG data to E* and probably to the cable EPG's as well). FSN Ohio's guide data had the correct data for Game 6. This is just speculation on my part.


BTW: I watched WUAB's OTA feed for the game - it had a clearer SD picture than the satellite delivered FSN feed. I don't get the RSN's in HD yet, however I do have a ViP 622 sitting in a box waiting for me to install it in place of my obsolete (i.e. no MPEG-4) DVR 942.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Speaking of WUAB, why the hell are the Cavs playoff games in 4:3 and not 16:9? Is this to penalize the people who don't pay $100 a month for their cable?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13785687
> 
> 
> Speaking of WUAB, why the hell are the Cavs playoff games in 4:3 and not 16:9? Is this to penalize the people who don't pay $100 a month for their cable?



Remember who owns WUAB. 'Nuff said.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13785687
> 
> 
> Speaking of WUAB, why the hell are the Cavs playoff games in 4:3 and not 16:9? Is this to penalize the people who don't pay $100 a month for their cable?



FSN Ohio only put one playoff game in HD, and that was the first game that the Cavs played in Washington. Even though that game was in HD on FSNOhio HD, WUAB simulcast of the game was in SD (no big surprise there). Its not a big deal to me because the nationals are picking up the games from here on out and they will be in HD.


----------



## Smarty-pants

The only game that was in HD was game 1 ?!?!???!?!?

What the F***?

I wasn't aware of that. I was only able to catch 2 of the games at home on WUAB and just assumed they were in HD on FSN.

That is OUTRAGEOUS that the playoff games are not in HD. What year is it?... 2005?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13785744
> 
> 
> Remember who owns WUAB. 'Nuff said.



You know and that's what is so funny about that channel. They have a spot on the old Adelphia line up in HD, basically wasting space because the only thing that I know that they have in HD is Action News at 10 and they don't show Cavs in HD.










That's why when I got a letter from some guy after asking Steve Fry why I should stay with TW and how come no CW (a while back) in HD He said that CW only offered 12 hours of HD program and they didn't want to waste bandwith on that channel. I responded by asking him just how much HD was on WAUB beyond the news? And I kind of ripped him a new one for trying to bs me. I told him no offense but don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.


He actually responded saying "no offense taken, and he appreciated my input."


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13785928
> 
> 
> The only game that was in HD was game 1 ?!?!???!?!?
> 
> What the F***?
> 
> I wasn't aware of that. I was only able to catch 2 of the games at home on WUAB and just assumed they were in HD on FSN.
> 
> That is OUTRAGEOUS that the playoff games are not in HD. What year is it?... 2005?



They were ALL available in HD. You just had to tune to TNT or ESPN.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13786067
> 
> 
> They were ALL available in HD. You just had to tune to TNT or ESPN.



Well, that's fine for people like me and satellite folks. But what about OTA? My point is of course it SHOULD have been available on WUAB. If you don't subscribe to something you should be SOL in regards to receiving a local playoff game?


Then again, when the Tribe won they were on TBS only. There was no television at all OTA.


So the mesage is clear: either you subscribe or you go to the game. You will do as the cable commpany commands. If not, we will take away certains things.


Goes right back to the Tom Petty song I quote: "The boys upstairs all wanna know how much you'll pay for what you use to get free."


First track of Tom Petty's "The Last DJ". Which I highly recommend.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13785120
> 
> 
> It seems my new HDTV has a qam tuner. So my thoughts are in order for me to access this I would split before my TiVo S3 and go to the back of the computer directly. Correct?



All you need is a clear cable line into the _set_ (I wouldn't run it into your computer







). The easiest is to do just what you said: run a splitter off the wall with one end going into your Tivo and the other into the set.


----------



## hookbill

Well, my Wega got picked up from a fellow member of this forum. He drove 60 miles to get it.


But that's not why I'm posting. After we loaded the Wega into his SUV he told me that apparently the Navigator software had "blew up" his SA 8300.


That of course gave me the opportunity to pitch TiVo but he didn't seem to interested. Said they were coming out in "a few days" to fix it, probably will replace it.


This Navigator thing sure looks interesting. Have fun guys.


One more thing. Zap2it.com now has updated digital listings for Cleveland now along with the old one.


I wish they would get it to me so I could get CWHD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13786446
> 
> 
> All you need is a clear cable line into the _set_ (I wouldn't run it into your computer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). The easiest is to do just what you said: run a splitter off the wall with one end going into your Tivo and the other into the set.



Sorry for the confusion, I don't know why I said computer. I meant TV. So we were on the same page. I'll edit that post.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13785928
> 
> 
> The only game that was in HD was game 1 ?!?!???!?!?
> 
> What the F***?
> 
> I wasn't aware of that. I was only able to catch 2 of the games at home on WUAB and just assumed they were in HD on FSN.
> 
> That is OUTRAGEOUS that the playoff games are not in HD. What year is it?... 2005?



Yeah. I usually check the cavs.com website and check the TV listings. It usually says "FSN Ohio HD" if the game will be broadcast in HD.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13786366
> 
> 
> Well, that's fine for people like me and satellite folks. But what about OTA? My point is of course it SHOULD have been available on WUAB. If you don't subscribe to something you should be SOL in regards to receiving a local playoff game?
> 
> 
> Then again, when the Tribe won they were on TBS only. There was no television at all OTA.
> 
> 
> So the mesage is clear: either you subscribe or you go to the game. You will do as the cable commpany commands. If not, we will take away certains things.



Huh? What channel a playoff game is on has nothing to do with the cable company... Blame the NBA (and MLB) for the greedy business deals they made with non-OTA networks...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13786718
> 
> 
> One more thing. Zap2it.com now has updated digital listings for Cleveland now along with the old one.
> 
> 
> I wish they would get it to me so I could get CWHD.



Zap2It.com has had those listings for a few weeks - I pointed it out here back when I ran into it.










Oddly enough, my TiVo S2 only picked up the correct new lineup (under ZIP 44321) as "Time Warner Cable City of Cleveland". I'm not sure what that means, but the lineup matches the realigned lineup I'm getting as far as I can tell.


A run through the TWCGuide site and your system would be included in what's called "ClevelandSuburban3". Mine is 1. Your city isn't showing the old Western Reserve lineup (labeled "NSummit-Aurora"), but maybe you're close enough that it's why you don't have the new lineup yet.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13784153
> 
> 
> Not that Dick Goddard has nearly as much as any of those dudes. And he loves animals! How can you not like a guy like that?



Ditto! Goddard has my respect also. A long time ago I remember his saying how he really loves weather phenomena and that drove him to get into the business. I much prefer to get my weather reports from someone like that rather than your average Ken doll who's only trying to get an anchor seat. Goddard can lay out those isobars like nobody's business.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13785086
> 
> 
> Not on WOW (see above post).



Still fictitious. There is no such thing as cable channel 200 or above. They can code the data stream any way they like, and they can map the channels around in various ways, but they still have to transmit the physical data over a specific set of frequencies. Those frequencies run from channel 2 through about channel 150 or so. Most cable systems don't go beyond channel 120. Most tuners don't go beyond channel 135.


It's true that I was describing Time Warner, not WOW, and I'm pretty sure that was clear in my post. But that doesn't change the fact that WOW is subject to the same set of channels as everyone else.


Here's a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...on_frequencies


----------



## nickdawg

I was disappointed to NOT see the CAvs in HD on My43. But on 19AN they always say "your _free TV_ home of the Cavs". It really is you get what you pay for. Normally the lack of HD on My43 is no skin off my a--, as I watch ESPN or whatever other channel it is on. Plus, are there really that many people left with OTA in 2008?


But in the playoffs it was a real dick move to NOT be HD. Since a game 6 would not be getting time on a national network, the local RSNs _SHOULD_ have it in HD. But hey, they made it. It should be HD from here on out


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13786718
> 
> 
> Well, my Wega got picked up from a fellow member of this forum. He drove 60 miles to get it.
> 
> 
> But that's not why I'm posting. After we loaded the Wega into his SUV he told me that apparently the *Navigator software had "blew up" his SA 8300.*



How exactly did it "blow up"? Was it the problem with the DVR? I called last night and they fixed it over the phone in a few minutes. My shows and DVR are back to working now.


Also, I'm actually not pissed at Navigator anymore. We are going to be stuck together for a *LONG* time so we just gotta get along.







It's kinda easier to accept it when the decision is made FOR you, since it is now the only option. I can only hope if this news about TW Cable for sale progresses and someone like Cablevision or even Comcast buys it they will switch to SARA or Passport. No reputable, quality cable company would be caught dead with this embarrassment.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13787147
> 
> 
> Huh? What channel a playoff game is on has nothing to do with the cable company... Blame the NBA (and MLB) for the greedy business deals they made with non-OTA networks...



When I first read your response I had to go back and read what I wrote because I didn't remember specifically blaming the cable companies. I did. And you're correct. But not completely.


You can also blame local stations. In Los Angeles for example they have many OTA games on channel 9 (Dodgers). Angels are on channel 13, KCOP and I'm not sure if they are CW or "My Network." And of course since they are in big city market they get alot of attention from FOX and ESPN.


Remember there were no local ota broadcast until STO teamed up with WKYC. The reason? Ratiings. And the Tribe only gets OTA on Sundays or a holiday. WKYC doesn't want to give up it's NBC broadcast for the Tribe in the evenings.


Another thing. Everyone now is "network affiliated" so you really don't have independent stations now. I think KCAL channel 9 is the only "independent" station in Los Angeles where in the old days there was channels 5, 9, 11, and 13.


And even KCAL really isn't independent. It's owned by CBS but they broadcast their primetime network shows on KCBS channel 2.


Point is that apparently nobody wants to step up anymore in the OTA market and broadcast baseball.


And for what it's worth, I noticed all the Dodger and Angel games OTA are not in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13788237
> 
> 
> How exactly did it "blow up"? Was it the problem with the DVR? I called last night and they fixed it over the phone in a few minutes. My shows and DVR are back to working now.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm actually not pissed at Navigator anymore. We are going to be stuck together for a *LONG* time so we just gotta get along.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's kinda easier to accept it when the decision is made FOR you, since it is now the only option. I can only hope if this news about TW Cable for sale progresses and someone like Cablevision or even Comcast buys it they will switch to SARA or Passport. No reputable, quality cable company would be caught dead with this embarrassment.



I think he says it reboots all the time. So he can't use it with constant reboot.


Wow Nickdawg once again you continue to amaze me. I think earlier today or possibly yesterday you were cussing and swearing and now suddenly you're a fan?


It's too bad. I was really enjoying you ripping the navigator. Let's see how you feel in the next week or so.










And what in the world makes you think that Cablevision or Comcast will be better? We all thought TW would be better then Adelphia, and in fact they are a step above them but in the end all cable companies are evil, bad, and one big pain in the butt. I've never been happy with any cable company I ever was with. The only time I was happy was when I had D*, and even then I had to go through Pegasus at that time. Pegasucks was bad but not as bad as any cable company I've ever had.


----------



## ptdr

This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner


82.201 cbs

88.202 fox

102.110 19weather

103.140 tube

103.204 WUAB

110.399 WOW PPV commercials

110.547 classical music

115.203 nbc

116.130 nbcweather

116.200 abc

117.1 - 117.55 music stations

117.500 - 117.546 music stations

118.1 paperview commercials



I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.


----------



## Chris Isble

I have two tickets to the Indians game at 1:00PM on Sunday, and I am unable to attend. No charge for the tickets, but you need to be able to pick them up from me in Lyndhurst. PM if you are interested.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ptdr* /forum/post/13789174
> 
> 
> This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner
> 
> 
> 82.201 cbs
> 
> 88.202 fox
> 
> 102.110 19weather
> 
> 103.140 tube
> 
> 103.204 WUAB
> 
> 110.399 WOW PPV commercials
> 
> 110.547 classical music
> 
> 115.203 nbc
> 
> 116.130 nbcweather
> 
> 116.200 abc
> 
> 117.1 - 117.55 music stations
> 
> 117.500 - 117.546 music stations
> 
> 118.1 paperview commercials
> 
> 
> 
> I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.



I think I see their numbering format here. The number to the left of the decimal point is the EIA frequency assignment, and the number to the right is their channel number that corresponds to their published channel number.


----------



## ptdr

WOW! didn't understand QAM or understand how there own recievers work. I was transfered numerous times, including one where I was flat out called a liar, long story short, They are upgrading me to digital cable and giving me the digital reciever. Did they give it to me for free? NO, they are charging me $15 a month less! just outsmart them and they start to pay you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/13789261
> 
> 
> I have two tickets to the Indians game at 1:00PM on Sunday, and I am unable to attend. No charge for the tickets, but you need to be able to pick them up from me in Lyndhurst. PM if you are interested.



I'm not interested but thanks for the offer.


So far this week we've given away a HDTV and baseball tickets. Not a bad thread, huh?


----------



## nickdawg

Is this the ASV CLeveland TV forum or The Price is Right?


----------



## orange5814

Has anyone been having issues with ESPN2, ESPN, or HBO on their HD feeds. I am runnign trough an 8300HDC, and the picture will freeze for about 3 seconds, catch up for about 3 seconds, and freeze again. It is unwatchable. I had to watch last nights Cavs game in SD. Frustrating


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ptdr* /forum/post/13789174
> 
> 
> This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner
> 
> 
> 82.201 cbs
> 
> 88.202 fox
> 
> 102.110 19weather
> 
> 103.140 tube
> 
> 103.204 WUAB
> 
> 110.399 WOW PPV commercials
> 
> 110.547 classical music
> 
> 115.203 nbc
> 
> 116.130 nbcweather
> 
> 116.200 abc
> 
> 117.1 - 117.55 music stations
> 
> 117.500 - 117.546 music stations
> 
> 118.1 paperview commercials
> 
> 
> 
> I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.



Those are the WOW clear QAM channels I get. Results may vary depending upon TV as one of my TVs picks up the music choice stations, the other doesn't. With the exception of 103-140 and 103-204, all channels resolve to their 3-digit channel number as noted in the WOW channel lineup.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ptdr* /forum/post/13789450
> 
> 
> WOW! didn't understand QAM or understand how there own recievers work. I was transfered numerous times, including one where I was flat out called a liar, long story short, They are upgrading me to digital cable and giving me the digital reciever. Did they give it to me for free? NO, they are charging me $15 a month less! just outsmart them and they start to pay you.



I'm very surprised at your story. I have had WOW for 4 years and every call to CS has been professional and courteous. Looks like you got a dud, who I would not expect to last long with the company.


In any case, it looks like they took care of you and provided you with a great result in the end - definitely better than you expected going into the call. They did the same for me last year. With the HD tuner, I get the entire Basic HD lineup plus StarzHD.


Good to see someone else around here has WOW. It's been kind of lonely since paule123 switched to satellite.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/13789617
> 
> 
> Has anyone been having issues with ESPN2, ESPN, or HBO on their HD feeds. I am runnign trough an 8300HDC, and the picture will freeze for about 3 seconds, catch up for about 3 seconds, and freeze again. It is unwatchable. I had to watch last nights Cavs game in SD. Frustrating



Heh Heh Heh Heh


Sorry to hear about this my friend. I'm assuming you have Navigator software. There seems to be some bugs in that navigator software. I'm sure they will get it fixed soon however because we all know Time Warner puts the customer first. This little oversight of allowing this product to be released with these minor problems will probably be corrected as soon as Cisco or SA or whomever actually hires someone who knows how to program a DVR.


What? This isn't a minor problem? Well, TW really doesn't think it's that important at this time. They are trying to push out this software and if it doesn't work they will fix it later.


Seriously all I've heard about Navigator for the most part are pretty negative comments. In the meantime, TW will apologize for the problems you are experiencing and schedule a truck roll in about two weeks if you call customer service. They will probably replace your DVR and hopefully that will solve your problem.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13789807
> 
> 
> Heh Heh Heh Heh
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear about this my friend. I'm assuming you have Navigator software. There seems to be some bugs in that navigator software. I'm sure they will get it fixed soon however because we all know Time Warner puts the customer first. This little oversight of allowing this product to be released with these minor problems will probably be corrected as soon as Cisco or SA or whomever actually hires someone who knows how to program a DVR.
> 
> 
> What? This isn't a minor problem? Well, TW really doesn't think it's that important at this time. They are trying to push out this software and if it doesn't work they will fix it later.
> 
> 
> Seriously all I've heard about Navigator for the most part are pretty negative comments. In the meantime, TW will apologize for the problems you are experiencing and schedule a truck roll in about two weeks if you call customer service. They will probably replace your DVR and hopefully that will solve your problem.



Check your connections. I've had problems like that in the past and it turned out the main cable was loose after I cleaned. I really don't think that's a Navigator issue. I had some freezing last weekend(unrelated to loose wiring-I checked) and everything has worked since the switch.


If they do a truck roll, be sure they check wiring, signal levels and the drop from the street BEFORE changing the box. The most common box you'll get now is the 8300HDC. I'd avoid the HDC like the plague! I had one in the past and it was awful. There was definately something up with it since it had the seperable conditional access card. Navigator on the 8300HD works much better than it ever was on the HDC. They'll have to pry this 8300 out of my cold dead hands









--------------------------------------------------------

Don't blame Cisco/SA for Navigator. Navigator is a third party product designed by Time Warner. It works as good as ANY other non-SA product would work on their network. But this one definately has many of the bugs that were present in the OCAP version worked out.


----------



## hookbill

Received line up change on one set.


My TiVo HD now has the new line up. My S3 has the old one still.


From what I have read this is not uncommon, correct?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13790150
> 
> 
> Received line up change on one set.
> 
> 
> My TiVo HD now has the new line up. My S3 has the old one still.
> 
> 
> From what I have read this is not uncommon, correct?



Doesn't seem unusual to me... Are the cablecards in the HD a different manufacturer or model than the ones in the S3?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ptdr* /forum/post/13789174
> 
> 
> This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner
> 
> 
> 82.201 cbs
> 
> 88.202 fox
> 
> 102.110 19weather
> 
> 103.140 tube
> 
> 103.204 WUAB
> 
> 110.399 WOW PPV commercials
> 
> 110.547 classical music
> 
> 115.203 nbc
> 
> 116.130 nbcweather
> 
> 116.200 abc
> 
> 117.1 - 117.55 music stations
> 
> 117.500 - 117.546 music stations
> 
> 118.1 paperview commercials
> 
> 
> 
> I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.



You should NOT be getting STOHD and TNTHD in the clear. WOW is very good at not letting channels outside of the local OTA network basics "leak" into the clear. If you called and complained to them about that, then you were wrong. Just because you might read about some "extra" channels TWC might have, it's probably because TWC is incompetent/stupid.


ajstan, I still have WOW for internet, haven't totally given up on them. Just that they (and any other cable company) can't deliver all the HD goodness that DirecTV currently can ...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13788081
> 
> 
> Still fictitious. There is no such thing as cable channel 200 or above. They can code the data stream any way they like, and they can map the channels around in various ways, but they still have to transmit the physical data over a specific set of frequencies. Those frequencies run from channel 2 through about channel 150 or so. Most cable systems don't go beyond channel 120. Most tuners don't go beyond channel 135.
> 
> 
> It's true that I was describing Time Warner, not WOW, and I'm pretty sure that was clear in my post. But that doesn't change the fact that WOW is subject to the same set of channels as everyone else.
> 
> 
> Here's a reference:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_A...on_frequencies



Yes, you were quite clear you were discussing TWC. You can call the ch #'s ficticious, re-mapped, whatever, I'm just telling you where those WOW ch.'s appear on my QAM tuner in Strongsville and the local HD's are in the 200's.










I can enter ch. 82 or ch. 201, either way WOW takes me to ch. 201 CBS.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13790713
> 
> 
> Yes, you were quite clear you were discussing TWC. You can call the ch #'s ficticious, re-mapped, whatever, I'm just telling you where those WOW ch.'s appear on my QAM tuner in Strongsville and the local HD's are in the 200's.



Right. T/W does it somewhat differently. They code the virtual channels (most of them anyway) into their "proper" channel numbers (3,5,8, etc.), but their HD cable boxes map them into the 400s. So on a typical QAM tuner, they show up as 3.1, 5.1, etc, but on T/W's cable box, they show up as 403, 405, etc. (and until a week ago, it was 703, 705, etc.)


But if someone is trying to find a specific channel as a QAM broadcast (which is what started this discussion), it's the physical channel number that will help them track it down. Especially if the cable company isn't coding it correctly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13790190
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem unusual to me... Are the cablecards in the HD a different manufacturer or model than the ones in the S3?



They are the same. I think they are anyway. Both SA unless there was a newer version released since the last time I had the first one's installed in the S3.


It seems like this happens to lots of people, like nickdawg had one box navigator and another wasn't. Although I'm not sure if he had his line up changed both at the same time.


Not a big deal, I record CW upstairs anyway and transfer downstairs because of Thursday conflicts. And of course TiVo was smart enough to see the change and had the new channels already set up to the correct line up on the to do list even though the channels on the season pass list were the old line up.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13790824
> 
> 
> Right. T/W does it somewhat differently. They code the virtual channels (most of them anyway) into their "proper" channel numbers (3,5,8, etc.), but their HD cable boxes map them into the 400s. So on a typical QAM tuner, they show up as 3.1, 5.1, etc, but on T/W's cable box, they show up as 403, 405, etc. (and until a week ago, it was 703, 705, etc.)
> 
> 
> But if someone is trying to find a specific channel as a QAM broadcast (which is what started this discussion), it's the physical channel number that will help them track it down. Especially if the cable company isn't coding it correctly.



Yup. The joys of QAM tuning. "Where are my channels this week?"










After full scans my QAM tuner has never even shown ch ID's for locals like 82.xxx etc... and only shows ID's for the 200 thru 205 locals (plus the music ch's, sub bull-sh** weather ch's and PPV's), that's it.


BTW: My parents are in CF as well and were just asking me what cable co's are available to them. Who offers cable TV in CF? Furthermore, who would you recommend?


Thanks for any input.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13788309
> 
> 
> 
> Remember there were no local ota broadcast until STO teamed up with WKYC. The reason? Ratiings. And the Tribe only gets OTA on Sundays or a holiday. WKYC doesn't want to give up it's NBC broadcast for the Tribe in the evenings.



Actually, Tuesday's Yankee game is on WKYC, so I guess it was worth them giving up prime time sweeps programming!


The other non-Sunday WKYC dates are Friday, June 6th vs. Detroit, Tuesday, June 17th vs. Colorado, Saturday, July 5th vs. Minnesota, Monday, August 25th vs. Detroit


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13786366
> 
> 
> Well, that's fine for people like me and satellite folks. But what about OTA? My point is of course it SHOULD have been available on WUAB. If you don't subscribe to something you should be SOL in regards to receiving a local playoff game?
> 
> 
> Then again, when the Tribe won they were on TBS only. There was no television at all OTA.
> 
> 
> So the mesage is clear: either you subscribe or you go to the game. You will do as the cable commpany commands. If not, we will take away certains things.
> 
> 
> Goes right back to the Tom Petty song I quote: "The boys upstairs all wanna know how much you'll pay for what you use to get free."
> 
> 
> First track of Tom Petty's "The Last DJ". Which I highly recommend.



How is this any different from the regular season games? The majority of Tribe games are on STO and the majority of Cav's games are on FSN. OTA folks don't get those channels either. I don't understand how some think that these practices are supposed to change once the local teams make it to the playoffs?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13791012
> 
> 
> Actually, Tuesday's Yankee game is on WKYC, so I guess it was worth them giving up prime time sweeps programming!
> 
> 
> The other non-Sunday WKYC dates are Friday, June 6th vs. Detroit, Tuesday, June 17th vs. Colorado, Saturday, July 5th vs. Minnesota, Monday, August 25th vs. Detroit





Saturday is a weekend, Friday is the least watched day on primetime (use to be, maybe Saturday now) and it's also after the May Sweeps. Saturday is the same as Friday, and Monday, well you got me there.


But come on you're talking only 4 additional games.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/13791081
> 
> 
> How is this any different from the regular season games? The majority of Tribe games are on STO and the majority of Cav's games are on FSN. OTA folks don't get those channels either. I don't understand how some think that these practices are supposed to change once the local teams make it to the playoffs?



Well son







, back in the old days when there were 10 teams in each league and whomever had the best record went to the World Series they would allow the local broadcasting station along with the network which I believe was NBC back then to show the game. This policy went on I think into the 70's after playoffs started.


So where I come from in Los Angeles do you think that people would tune in Joe Buck or Vin Scully? Vin Scully was voted as the favorite Dodger of all time by the way.


Just saying how it use to be and how it's changed.


----------



## jtscherne

My point was that your original message indicated the WKYC had a game on only Sundays or holidays. None of the games qualify as holidays (the other non-Sunday game was opening day, which was a Monday) and they did get one prime time sweeps game on Tuesday. Therefore, of the 20 OTA games, 6 of them are non-Sunday games.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13791174
> 
> 
> Saturday is a weekend, Friday is the least watched day on primetime (use to be, maybe Saturday now) and it's also after the May Sweeps. Saturday is the same as Friday, and Monday, well you got me there.
> 
> 
> But come on you're talking only 4 additional games.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13788237
> 
> 
> How exactly did it "blow up"? Was it the problem with the DVR? I called last night and they fixed it over the phone in a few minutes. My shows and DVR are back to working now.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm actually not pissed at Navigator anymore. We are going to be stuck together for a *LONG* time so we just gotta get along.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's kinda easier to accept it when the decision is made FOR you, since it is now the only option. I can only hope if this news about TW Cable for sale progresses and someone like Cablevision or even Comcast buys it they will switch to SARA or Passport. No reputable, quality cable company would be caught dead with this embarrassment.



I think I posted my tale last week. Tuesday morning or Monday night Warner hit my 8300HD with the new software. It is not just the dvr that is zapped, but the entire unit. It just keeps going into an endless reboot cycle and never starts. I've tried everything including unplugging it for several minutes and calling TWC to reboot it or fix it from their end. They can't come out to try to fix it or replace it before Thursday night. I could take the box into a service center for a swap but that gives me no hope of fixing the box and keeping the saved media on the dvr.


The real bummer is that I had an external hard drive attached with over 100 hrs saved on it. If they replace the box, I will lose everything.


My Sony 60" SXRD has dual tuners, so I've just been watching TV in QAM. It is a shame that TWC doesn't list their QAM lineup.


Like Hookbill mentioned, I have been pretty happy with Passport in the past and we usually even order a movie or two each month from In Demand, which would not work with Tivo. We had a sucessful download of Navigator weeks ago to a non-HD 8300 in the house and I hate that software. I'l give TWC a certain time to fix it before I take Hookbill's rec and go to Tivo. Unfortunately, satellite is out due to size and location of Neighbor's trees.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13791272
> 
> 
> My point was that your original message indicated the WKYC had a game on only Sundays or holidays. None of the games qualify as holidays (the other non-Sunday game was opening day, which was a Monday) and they did get one prime time sweeps game on Tuesday. Therefore, of the 20 OTA games, 6 of them are non-Sunday games.



OK 6 games and not to split hairs with you but July 5 us part of the Independence day weekend and it's on a Saturday.


----------



## hookbill

Very. Late last night when I noticed the line up change upstairs in the bedroom I thought maybe this morning the downstairs TiVo would be set up as well.


It wasn't.


So instead of thinking, gee, why don't I just take a look and see if the Cleveland line up is being offered (the upgraded one) I call customer service.

Nice enough fellow, wants to be helpful, tells me to turn off my TV. I do a little laugh and turn it off anyway. Then he tells me to pull the cable cards out of my TV. I explain that they are in the TiVo. So I do the stupid customer dance, reboot pull out the cards and of course nothing works. He says that he is going to send this to "Engineering Management" and it will be fixed.


I go out for breakfast and then I thought, hey why not just run guided setup and see if Cleveland digital is available? So I did and sure enough that did the trick.


Now I'm on a 2 hour call back hold from TiVo to make sure nobody messes with my machine. I'll bet there isn't even a note in the system.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13790907
> 
> 
> BTW: My parents are in CF as well and were just asking me what cable co's are available to them. Who offers cable TV in CF? Furthermore, who would you recommend?



As far as I know, T/W is the only player in town. I'm actually slightly outside Chagrin (in South Russell), but it seems to be the same system. I don't know that I'd "recommend" Time Warner, but that's what we've got. I'm not about to switch to satellite or AT&T, so I guess I'm OK with T/W. I do periodically consider dumping them and just using my antenna, but I'd still have to pay them for internet service, so I'll probably just leave it alone.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13792475
> 
> 
> As far as I know, T/W is the only player in town. I'm actually slightly outside Chagrin (in South Russell), but it seems to be the same system. I don't know that I'd "recommend" Time Warner, but that's what we've got. I'm not about to switch to satellite or AT&T, so I guess I'm OK with T/W. I do periodically consider dumping them and just using my antenna, but I'd still have to pay them for internet service, so I'll probably just leave it alone.



Jim you are correct nobody can "recommend" TW. They are adequate at best.


I say if you have a clear line of sight get D*. They have a good DVR, very close to TiVo's and much more selection for HD. TW is great for internet so I see your point.


----------



## GLuis

Horrible OTA reception on WEWS ABC lately here in Brunstucky. WKYC Indians games are beautiful looking and that is on the "tough to get" OTA signal. Chan 5 ABC has been pixelated and LOS problems for about a week+ now.


Anyone else?


----------



## hookbill

So as you are probably aware there are duplicate stations all over the digital areas. My thinking was that they were making them digital to A. Screw people who didn't own a box or B. Planning on making more HD channels so they needed them in digital.


Well, I just did a little searching around and guess what I came up with. It appears that every duplicate analog channel is not digital. It's still analog.


People we are not talking one or two stations. There is almost 50 channels duplicated in analog. Now how in the heck do you explain that? What purpose could there possibly be for doing this.


It doesn't make sense. It doesn't benefit the customer, not like they were concerened about that in the first place, but it waste a huge, huge amount of bandwith.


Can you imagine how many more HD channels they could have added? Now I don't know how much bandwith HD takes, I know digital takes a whole lot less and analog to the best of my knowledge is the biggest bandwith hog.


So if any of you intelligent people out there can explain this to me, please do. And all those stations are copy freely just like there counterparts.


I know there has got to be a reason for this.


Now I just typed this out and I think I know why. This is all part of the "put them in their program package" theory. Entertainment: USA, FX, TNT, etc.


Nice. I answered my own question.










But this is still a big waste of bandwith IMHO. Unless it somehow redirects to the lower tier station.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/13792622
> 
> 
> Horrible OTA reception on WEWS ABC lately here in Brunstucky. WKYC Indians games are beautiful looking and that is on the "tough to get" OTA signal. Chan 5 ABC has been pixelated and LOS problems for about a week+ now.
> 
> 
> Anyone else?



I'm in Kent. No major issues here. Had some issues with 8 earlier in the week but I think that was weather related. High winds usually give me problems with the trees in my sight line. ABC has been perfect all day today.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13791430
> 
> 
> Like Hookbill mentioned, I have been pretty happy with Passport in the past and we usually even order a movie or two each month from In Demand, which would not work with Tivo.



TiVo does have a similar feature - Amazon Unbox. For a couple of bucks, you can download a movie and watch it on TiVo. The list of available movies and TV series is pretty extensive. Unfortunately, I don't believe any of it is HD at this time, but I've seen talk of Amazon getting HD downloads going later this year.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13793572
> 
> 
> So as you are probably aware there are duplicate stations all over the digital areas. My thinking was that they were making them digital to A. Screw people who didn't own a box or B. Planning on making more HD channels so they needed them in digital.
> 
> 
> Well, I just did a little searching around and guess what I came up with. It appears that every duplicate analog channel is not digital. It's still analog.
> 
> 
> People we are not talking one or two stations. There is almost 50 channels duplicated in analog. Now how in the heck do you explain that? What purpose could there possibly be for doing this.
> 
> 
> It doesn't make sense. It doesn't benefit the customer, not like they were concerened about that in the first place, but it waste a huge, huge amount of bandwith.
> 
> 
> Can you imagine how many more HD channels they could have added? Now I don't know how much bandwith HD takes, I know digital takes a whole lot less and analog to the best of my knowledge is the biggest bandwith hog.
> 
> 
> So if any of you intelligent people out there can explain this to me, please do. And all those stations are copy freely just like there counterparts.
> 
> 
> I know there has got to be a reason for this.
> 
> 
> Now I just typed this out and I think I know why. This is all part of the "put them in their program package" theory. Entertainment: USA, FX, TNT, etc.
> 
> 
> Nice. I answered my own question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this is still a big waste of bandwith IMHO. Unless it somehow redirects to the lower tier station.



Those channels are not duplicates. They are the same channels as the existing numbers, just mapped to a different location. My area already had ALL the channels in digital including 2-99, making the new channel numbers digital as well. If you tune to CNN on 350 then tune to CNN on its old location you'll notice that only the channel number changes. The box doesn't actually change physical channels. Also if you pull up your SARA diagnostics channel/screen and choose the Tuning option you'll see that the numbers are the same for the anlaog channel's old location as well as the over 100 location. The lack of digital channels is a headend issue. If your headend doesn't have the digital versions of these channels, they won't be digital.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13795837
> 
> 
> Those channels are not duplicates. They are the same channels as the existing numbers, just mapped to a different location. My area already had ALL the channels in digital including 2-99, making the new channel numbers digital as well. If you tune to CNN on 350 then tune to CNN on its old location you'll notice that only the channel number changes. The box doesn't actually change physical channels. Also if you pull up your SARA diagnostics channel/screen and choose the Tuning option you'll see that the numbers are the same for the anlaog channel's old location as well as the over 100 location. The lack of digital channels is a headend issue. If your headend doesn't have the digital versions of these channels, they won't be digital.



Glad to hear that. I removed all the lower tier numbered channels and noticed that Season Passes for those shows were automatically mapped to the what I thought was "digital" versions. I put the channels back in and TiVo left the channels on the "digital" versions all though they may be remapped again by now.


At least they arn't wasting analog space, that was my main concern.


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/13794490
> 
> 
> I'm in Kent. No major issues here. Had some issues with 8 earlier in the week but I think that was weather related. High winds usually give me problems with the trees in my sight line. ABC has been perfect all day today.



Thanks PTXer.

I went to AntennaWeb again to verify the locations and it looks like WEWS is more North than the other stations. I'll have to check the alignment on my outdoor TERK. With all the wind over the past winter it wouldn't surprise me if it got jostled a bit.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13796417
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that. I removed all the lower tier numbered channels and noticed that Season Passes for those shows were automatically mapped to the what I thought was "digital" versions. I put the channels back in and TiVo left the channels on the "digital" versions all though they may be remapped again by now.
> 
> 
> At least they arn't wasting analog space, that was my main concern.




Since my box malfunctioned, I'm just watching the straight cable feed and with my QAM tuner, and there definitely are some duplicates. I'm not sure about the analog channels, but the local digital HD channels in the clear are all duplicated. That is 3.1, 5.1 and 8.1 are also in the 101 to 103 frequency range. Lots of other stations are the same. I would bet some analog stations are duplicated too, but can't check until tonight.


On one of the other forums here, Time Warner HD ( I don't have the exact thread name), Someone reported that TW Staten Island, NY, cleared up much space for a number of new HD channels by completely eliminating analog.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13797152
> 
> 
> ...........On one of the other forums here, Time Warner HD ( I don't have the exact thread name), Someone reported that TW Staten Island, NY, cleared up much space for a number of new HD channels by completely eliminating analog.



If only ALL cable co's would do this!










The problem is that in order for any cable co to turn off all analog locals the cable co must provide free digital cable boxes to all of it's basic cable subscribers through 2012 (as it stands now), and that's a very costly proposition to the cable co.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/13796644
> 
> 
> Thanks PTXer.
> 
> I went to AntennaWeb again to verify the locations and it looks like *WEWS is more North than the other stations.* I'll have to check the alignment on my outdoor TERK. With all the wind over the past winter it wouldn't surprise me if it got jostled a bit.



Not exactly....


WEWS is in the middle of the pack as far as north to south goes. The problem is your POV changes depending on the receiver's location.


For the record, the farthest "north" transmitter is WBNX, followed closely by WOIO, WKYC and WQHS. All 4 are along the south side of W. Ridgewood Drive between Broadview and State Roads. Just a little bit south and west of WQHS is WUAB. Just south of WUAB is WEWS, both of these are along the west side of State Rd. Continue down State to the southeast corner of State & Pleasant Valley Rd. and you will find the home of WJW FOX 8's transmitter (very close to the road as opposed to the rest).


While they are not yet digital on their main tower, WVIZ is way off the beaten path in North Royalton along Ridge Rd., between Sprague and Wallings Roads.


----------



## nosey313

I'm wavering on taking the plunge and attempting to place an order. I'm worried about the trees in my back yard. There are other people in my area that have D* and trees don't seem to be a problem. So is there A) any way to have someone come out and check for LOS issues before I order and B) is there usually any issue with having an installer put a dish at the apex of my roof? Thanks for any help.


Bonus ? - Does D* have STO HD?


----------



## jtscherne

2nd question first - D* currently only shows the Indians games from STO HD (not the replays though). Their latest bird is supposed to go live by September and hopefully it will go full time then.


I'm not sure of the first. When I installed, I had to pay the upfront DVR cost, but there was some question from the installer as to whether he would be succcessful. If he hadn't been, I would have received a full refund. As for the apex of the house, I would think it would depend on the individual installer and his ladder. I know my installer had to call a supervisor before he could refuse to do the job. Your mileage may vary though...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13799159
> 
> 
> I'm wavering on taking the plunge and attempting to place an order. I'm worried about the trees in my back yard. There are other people in my area that have D* and trees don't seem to be a problem. So is there A) any way to have someone come out and check for LOS issues before I order and B) is there usually any issue with having an installer put a dish at the apex of my roof? Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> Bonus ? - Does D* have STO HD?


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13798467
> 
> 
> Not exactly....
> 
> 
> WEWS is in the middle of the pack as far as north to south goes. The problem is your POV changes depending on the receiver's location.
> 
> 
> For the record, the farthest "north" transmitter is WBNX, followed closely by WOIO, WKYC and WQHS. All 4 are along the south side of W. Ridgewood Drive between Broadview and State Roads. Just a little bit south and west of WQHS is WUAB. Just south of WUAB is WEWS, both of these are along the west side of State Rd. Continue down State to the southeast corner of State & Pleasant Valley Rd. and you will find the home of WJW FOX 8's transmitter (very close to the road as opposed to the rest).
> 
> 
> While they are not yet digital on their main tower, WVIZ is way off the beaten path in North Royalton along State Rd., between Sprague and Wallings Roads.



Guess I should have clarified ...

According to the AntennaWeb map graphic for my house in Brunswick, the WEWS radial from my address is a little North of the others. Gunna try a minor adjustment to see if it helps. Like I said, with all the wind it wouldn't surprise me that it was wacked out of alignmentsome.


Thanks for the info though.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13797152
> 
> 
> 
> On one of the other forums here, Time Warner HD ( I don't have the exact thread name), Someone reported that TW Staten Island, NY, cleared up much space for a number of new HD channels by completely eliminating analog.



Staten Island, you're my heroes!! NE Ohio needs to pull the trigger on the analog already. Hey Time Warner! Hey Mr. Fry! (someone from TW HAS to be checking this place out







) Think how much MORE money could be made by selling those boxes to EVERYONE. Like mentioned above, at least ONE free box per outlet, but extra cost for additionals(like it is now).


I currently have two Time Warner STBs, I wouldn't mind getting another one if they were cheaper.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13798467
> 
> 
> Not exactly....
> 
> 
> WEWS is in the middle of the pack as far as north to south goes. The problem is your POV changes depending on the receiver's location.
> 
> 
> For the record, the farthest "north" transmitter is WBNX, followed closely by WOIO, WKYC and WQHS. All 4 are along the south side of W. Ridgewood Drive between Broadview and State Roads. Just a little bit south and west of WQHS is WUAB. Just south of WUAB is WEWS, both of these are along the west side of State Rd. Continue down State to the southeast corner of State & Pleasant Valley Rd. and you will find the home of WJW FOX 8's transmitter (very close to the road as opposed to the rest).
> 
> 
> While they are not yet digital on their main tower, WVIZ is way off the beaten path in North Royalton along State Rd., between Sprague and Wallings Roads.




Speaking of WVIZ... a quick check of the FCC website shows the coordinates for their full power DTV transmitter to be different than their analog: 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W. Now check the coordinates for WKYC-DT...hmmm, 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W.


----------



## nickdawg

I've noticed at the end of several On Demand titles there are commercials for Time Warner Cable.


The most recent place I saw one of these ads was at the end of Avenged Sevenfold's "Afterlife", which seemed like it was cut short. I checked the official video on You Tube and and it wasn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8akxHCUBLk 


PHEW!







I was thinking Time Warner was sinking to a new low level, but they're safe(for now).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/13800430
> 
> 
> Speaking of WVIZ... a quick check of the FCC website shows the coordinates for their full power DTV transmitter to be different than their analog: 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W. Now check the coordinates for WKYC-DT...hmmm, 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W.












I guess WVIZ never could come to terms with CBS, Inc. (the owner of the North Royalton tower where their analog signal resides. Good sleuthing clevemkt!


It's just as well. This will make aiming antennas a little bit easier, as I stated before the N.Roy. tower was off the beaten path (FYI: I corrected the street location of WVIZ analog, it's off of Ridge, not State).


BTW: if you checkout the coordinates for WBNX, you'll also have the coordinates of nearly every LPTV signal too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13799159
> 
> 
> I'm wavering on taking the plunge and attempting to place an order. I'm worried about the trees in my back yard. There are other people in my area that have D* and trees don't seem to be a problem. So is there A) any way to have someone come out and check for LOS issues before I order and B) is there usually any issue with having an installer put a dish at the apex of my roof? Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> Bonus ? - Does D* have STO HD?



About the trees. If they can't get a clear signal they won't install. Trust me, I tried twice.


I did have one guy though who offered to do a set up off the books on his own time and mount the dish ON one of the trees. I said no thanks.


----------



## Cathode Kid

I see a small train heading south Tuesday morning... looks like the engine says Navigator and the boxcar says SA-2000...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13795837
> 
> 
> Those channels are not duplicates. They are the same channels as the existing numbers, just mapped to a different location.



I could have sworn I posted this a few days ago. Does anyone read me in here?










This would, though, presumably pave the way for them to do the digital substitutions for the current analog channels.


hookbill, I was gonna ask you if you ran Guided Setup.


----------



## Inundated

From me, 5/1/08 (last Thursday):



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13775880
> 
> 
> Oh, and I think I figured something out.
> 
> 
> The new 100-plus channels that are mirrors of the analog channels are indeed just that - mirrors.
> 
> 
> You can tell when you tune to, say, 350 (CNN)...it doesn't take the added second or so to decode a digital video signal. And if you flip between both channels - 34 and 350 - the box doesn't even try retuning!
> 
> 
> So, it would appear at least for now, "digital cable" needs an asterisk for the mirrored analog channels.


----------



## dleising

Does anyone anticipate digital OTA signals being easier to pick up/stronger after the cut off date?


Just curious...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13801811
> 
> 
> Does anyone anticipate digital OTA signals being easier to pick up/stronger after the cut off date?
> 
> 
> Just curious...



The WKYC-DT signal should be much more robust after the transition, since they're moving off of interference-prone channel 2 to UHF channel 17.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13801795
> 
> 
> From me, 5/1/08 (last Thursday):



Well, you know how it is. First I didn't pay any attention to your post, then I had to go get excited and upset about something. I mean if I'd have noticed your post and figured out what the heck you were talking about then I wouldn't have gone over the top crazy.


Further, you should make it a point of saying something like "hook, you need to pay attention" when it comes to these things. Now I look like a real idiot.










And it's all your fault.


----------



## hookbill

Hey I just thought I'd let you guys know I got my new 37LC30 pretty much dialed in now. It was like forgetting everything I learned in the past and starting over with a different approach.


I tried to calibrate it like I did my Wega but no matter what I did I couldn't get it to look as good as just putting it on Cinema. But Cinema didn't look quite right either.


My Wega did not have a black level and from reading in the flat panel LCD post I learned that having a high contrast, low brightness and pushing that black level up to about 35 made a huge difference. I had it at 50 earlier and I thought that was a bit much. On the grey scale at 35 black level, 50 brightness and 90 contrast you can see each and every individual panel with sharp edges. I also had to knock the color down to around 35, just too much color in the faces. I put the temperature at normal.


I'll be anxious to check out Fox 8 News in the morning.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13797648
> 
> 
> If only ALL cable co's would do this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that in order for any cable co to turn off all analog locals the cable co must provide free digital cable boxes to all of it's basic cable subscribers through 2012 (as it stands now), and that's a very costly proposition to the cable co.




Don't they only have to offer the "lifeline" local channels such as 2 - 13 to follow the law? They have a lot more analog channels taking up bandwidth than that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13802721
> 
> 
> Don't they only have to offer the "lifeline" local channels such as 2 - 13 to follow the law? They have a lot more analog channels taking up bandwidth than that.



They're only REQUIRED to keep the "must carry" local channels in the clear(analog, clear QAM).


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13802881
> 
> 
> They're only REQUIRED to keep the "must carry" local channels in the clear(analog, clear QAM).



True, but without providing free digital boxes to all basic subscribers, doing away with the analog lineup would be icky. There are a lot of people who just use analog cable, and alienating them would be akin to corporate suicide.


As much as we'd like to see it go away, analog cable is going to stick around for a long time...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13802721
> 
> 
> Don't they only have to offer the "lifeline" local channels such as 2 - 13 to follow the law? They have a lot more analog channels taking up bandwidth than that.



Yes, and those (2-13) would be/include the locals.











Yes, and that's why most in here including myself don't like the analogs taking up bandwidth that could/should be digital.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13803702
> 
> 
> True, but without providing free digital boxes to all basic subscribers, doing away with the analog lineup would be icky. There are a lot of people who just use analog cable, and alienating them would be akin to corporate suicide.
> 
> 
> As much as we'd like to see it go away, analog cable is going to stick around for a long time...



Well, people who get simple basic don't get much extra. WGN, a religious channel a couple of community channels. The problem is offering basic plus. They could remove basic plus, make it digital and then that would "force" people into getting a digital box.


And the smart way they could do this would be to offer the box free for 6 months or a year, create another tier of digital service something like digital "classic" and then they could charge for the box.


The only problem I see with pulling this off is they would have to offer actual digital boxes, not DVR's. And they seem determined to get everyone a DVR unless you talk to Mr. Fry.


----------



## kramerboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13800809
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess WVIZ never could come to terms with CBS, Inc. (the owner of the North Royalton tower where their analog signal resides. Good sleuthing clevemkt!
> 
> 
> It's just as well. This will make aiming antennas a little bit easier, as I stated before the N.Roy. tower was off the beaten path (FYI: I corrected the street location of WVIZ analog, it's off of Ridge, not State).



Some interesting info is now available on WVIZ going to the new WKYC tower on the FCC website :

*Site*


WVIZ operates its analog (Channel 25) and digital facilities from a multi-user tower (ASR #1026082, on which WVIZ is a tenant) that is also occupied by an FM station; the tower is in very close proximity to a standard broadcast (AM) array. Although the current WVIZ authorization matches the parameters of the Appendix B facility, WVIZ is presently operating a digital facility under Special Temporary Authority and has been unable to complete construction at the current site.

WVIZ has identified a new site for its DTV facility and is proposing to collocate with WKYC with the post-transition operating parameters listed below:


Proposed Post-transition Facility (Ch. 26)

Coordinates: 41° 23' 10 N (NAD27)

81° 41' 21 W

ERP: 170 kW (DA)

HAAT: 337m



*Antenna System and Tower*


WVIZ-DT will use a Dielectric directional antenna (TFU-10GTH-R C400) which will be part of a new top-mounted WVIZ/WKYC antenna stack that will take the place of the existing WKYC Channel 3 analog antenna. The antenna stack will be placed on the tower (ASR#1013919) at the coordinates specified above. The overall height of the structure will remain the same (595m AMSL, with appurtenances) and the WVIZ antenna will have a center of radiation of 590.4m AMSL (with a calculated HAAT of 336.9m).

*Coverage*


The entire principal community of Cleveland, OH is well within the predicted F(50,90) 48 dBu contour based on the proposed directional 170 kW ERP.

While the proposed WVIZ parameters do not match the Appendix B facility exactly, the proposed facility is predicted to provide Longley Rice coverage (based on an OET-69 analysis) to 96.4% of the Appendix B population.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13804031
> 
> 
> Well, people who get simple basic don't get much extra. WGN, a religious channel a couple of community channels. The problem is offering basic plus. They could remove basic plus, make it digital and then that would "force" people into getting a digital box.
> 
> 
> And the smart way they could do this would be to offer the box free for 6 months or a year, create another tier of digital service something like digital "classic" and then they could charge for the box.
> 
> 
> The only problem I see with pulling this off is they would have to offer actual digital boxes, not DVR's. And they seem determined to get everyone a DVR unless you talk to Mr. Fry.




This is from the FCC's dtv.gov FAQs:


Can my cable company make me get a box to receive the cable channels I receive today without a box?


Some cable companies have decided to switch to digital service. This is a business decision made by the cable companies and is not required by the federal government. Your cable company may decide to move certain cable channels off of its analog service tier and onto a digital service tier, or it may decide to switch to all-digital service at once, so that there is no analog service tier for any subscribers. If your cable company decides to move some or all of the channels it provides onto a digital service tier, it may notify you that you need to get digital cable equipment to continue receiving that cable service. This may include renting or purchasing a digital cable set-top box or purchasing a digital cable ready TV equipped with a CableCARD slot. The digital cable equipment is different from the digital-to-analog converter boxes that are used to receive over-the-air broadcast signals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/13805313
> 
> 
> This is from the FCC's dtv.gov FAQs:
> 
> 
> Can my cable company make me get a box to receive the cable channels I receive today without a box?
> 
> 
> Some cable companies have decided to switch to digital service. This is a business decision made by the cable companies and is not required by the federal government. Your cable company may decide to move certain cable channels off of its analog service tier and onto a digital service tier, or it may decide to switch to all-digital service at once, so that there is no analog service tier for any subscribers. If your cable company decides to move some or all of the channels it provides onto a digital service tier, it may notify you that you need to get digital cable equipment to continue receiving that cable service. This may include renting or purchasing a digital cable set-top box or purchasing a digital cable ready TV equipped with a CableCARD slot. The digital cable equipment is different from the digital-to-analog converter boxes that are used to receive over-the-air broadcast signals.



Very Very interesting!


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

Am I missing something or is none of the programming on Food HD actually in HD? Usually if the program is in HD it is stated on the guide.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/13807843
> 
> 
> Am I missing something or is none of the programming on Food HD actually in HD? Usually if the program is in HD it is stated on the guide.



It used to be all HD all the time, but they decided to mirror the programming on the "regular" channel to the HD channel, and there's a lot less HD on FoodHD now. Stupid decision IMO.


I saw they had an SD version of Good Eats in stretch-o-vision on the HD channel last night. Ugh.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13807930
> 
> 
> It used to be all HD all the time, but they decided to mirror the programming on the "regular" channel to the HD channel, and there's a lot less HD on FoodHD now. Stupid decision IMO.
> 
> 
> I saw they had an SD version of Good Eats in stretch-o-vision on the HD channel last night. Ugh.



And Time Warner has only made it worse with Navigator. The Navigator guide does not identify shows as "HDTV", "Dolby Digital" or "Letterbox" anymore. I find this very irritating even though I can usually spot stretchovision(it's not too hard). But if I want to record on History, A&E, Food, or HGTV I have to risk recording stretchovision crap. If it's stretched, I won't watch it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13808190
> 
> 
> And Time Warner has only made it worse with Navigator. The Navigator guide does not identify shows as "HDTV", "Dolby Digital" or "Letterbox" anymore. I find this very irritating even though I can usually spot stretchovision(it's not too hard). But if I want to record on History, A&E, Food, or HGTV I have to risk recording stretchovision crap. If it's stretched, I won't watch it.



Then go to www.zap2it.com or www.titantv.com . They usually will have the HD listings.


I was at work when I posted this so I didn't have much time but nickdawg I thought you were "embracing" Navigator and "accepting" it. Just a few post ago you said that.


Are you taking your meds.










And I know I really shouldn't do this but if you go to zap2it.com you can program your dvr from there. That is, if you have the right type of DVR.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13807930
> 
> 
> It used to be all HD all the time, but they decided to mirror the programming on the "regular" channel to the HD channel, and there's a lot less HD on FoodHD now. Stupid decision IMO.
> 
> 
> I saw they had an SD version of Good Eats in stretch-o-vision on the HD channel last night. Ugh.










They say television adds 10# to your appearance. Stretch-o-vision must add 25#, then after all those good eats, you end up looking morbidly obese!


----------



## hookbill

Food Channel. What a waste of HD space! FX, USA, SCI FI. I want entertainment not cooking lessons. I don't care how "enjoyable"" they make it.


And then to top it off it's not real HD?


Thanks again TW.


----------



## jtscherne

I hate to tell you this, hook, but FX, USA, and SCI FI are not all HD either.


Virtually all new Food Network shows are being filmed in HD and they definitely have a good amount of high definition programming. They just aren't properly labeling all of them.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13809176
> 
> 
> Food Channel. What a waste of HD space! FX, USA, SCI FI. I want entertainment not cooking lessons. I don't care how "enjoyable"" they make it.
> 
> 
> And then to top it off it's not real HD?
> 
> 
> Thanks again TW.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13809176
> 
> 
> Food Channel. What a waste of HD space! FX, USA, SCI FI. I want entertainment not cooking lessons. I don't care how "enjoyable"" they make it.
> 
> 
> And then to top it off it's not real HD?
> 
> 
> Thanks again TW.



Don't blame TW on this one - Food Network made the change about a month ago. And FWIW, I find USA, FX and SCI FI completely useless. Each to his own. Stop bashing the Food Network every chance you get.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13808435
> 
> 
> Then go to www.zap2it.com or www.titantv.com . They usually will have the HD listings.
> 
> 
> I was at work when I posted this so I didn't have much time but nickdawg I thought you were "embracing" Navigator and "accepting" it. Just a few post ago you said that.
> 
> 
> Are you taking your meds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I know I really shouldn't do this but if you go to zap2it.com you can program your dvr from there. That is, if you have the right type of DVR.



I'm still "accepting" it. I'm also pissed at this problem. The show descriptions are also shorter. I'm hoping this is something that will eventually get fixed. Until then I'll just have to use Titan TV. Punch in zip code 44310 and you'll get the new lineup.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13809214
> 
> 
> I hate to tell you this, hook, but FX, USA, and SCI FI are not all HD either.
> 
> 
> Virtually all new Food Network shows are being filmed in HD and they definitely have a good amount of high definition programming. They just aren't properly labeling all of them.



At least the NBC/Uni networks and FX are keeping SD in OAR. I'd rather have a network like USA that has lots of HD programming and SD in OAR instead of HGTV, which has lots of stretchovision.


----------



## gforaker

I had posted that my HD8300 locked up and was non functional since last week trying to download the new software. Cathode Kid suggested that even though the normal location had a decent signal, I should try putting the box in a different outlet in the house with fewer splitters in the path.


I tried it tonight and it worked! Both locations seem to have normal functionality, but the software update apparently needs a little higher S/N ratio than normal operation. The other location must have a better signal.


Everything is now back to normal and the external hard drive was recognized and synchronized properly. Now to get used to the new software.


In case anyone else has a similar problem, this may help.


Tip of the hat to Cathode Kid.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/13810810
> 
> 
> I tried it tonight and it worked! Both locations seem to have normal functionality, but the software update apparently needs a little higher S/N ratio than normal operation. The other location must have a better signal.



The 8300 line seems to be picky about signal quality in general. I've had to tweak things in the house for several years to keep everything "happy", even though the signal coming into the house is booming.


I have an 8300HD in the bedroom, and a line running to a pcHDTV card in the attic. If I unplug the cable going to the computer and leave it dangling, the 8300HD absolutely refuses to play any On Demand stuff. (Yes, I'm using good-quality cables.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13809259
> 
> 
> Stop bashing the Food Network every chance you get.



I beg your pardon? I'll bash the Food Network anytime I feel like it.


Something's I'll back off off if it's been going on for days at a time. And maybe it's just a misconception on my part. I know things can be written on the internet and not been meant like they sound. This sounds to me like you're telling me what I can or can't say about how I feel about a particular network. I think it's a waste of space and I'm not pleased about TW adding it to the line up.


Now if you didn't mean to come off the way it sounded fine. I understand. But if you did there is an easy way to solve your problem. There is an ignore button.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13809214
> 
> 
> I hate to tell you this, hook, but FX, USA, and SCI FI are not all HD either.




Yes I know that many of the shows on those networks arn't in HD but the one's I care about are. Shows like Dirt, The Shield, Rescue Me to name a few on FX and on USA The 4400. On Sci-Fi it would be worth it just to see Eureka.


Guys, this is just my opinion. Just the networks I would prefer to see in HD because they have the shows I watch. I love football but could care less about the NFL network - at least as of now. Who knows what it cooking in the minds of the NFL and future broadcasts, but I doubt they will ever go cable exclusive.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13810222
> 
> 
> I'm still "accepting" it. I'm also pissed at this problem. The show descriptions are also shorter. I'm hoping this is something that will eventually get fixed. Until then I'll just have to use Titan TV. Punch in zip code 44310 and you'll get the new lineup.




You're "accepting" it but.....and then you gripe about something else.










I think you're trying hard to accept it. Good luck to you. And about the descriptions? I don't recall how good they were on the SA 8300 but I know that TiVo's descriptions sometimes are not very good either. Sometimes it says something like " a killer is loose and two cops who don't like each other pursue him." That type of thing.


----------



## bassguitarman

I agree with hookbill. ANY food network is a waste of time as is the half dozen shopping networks TWC added.Since the 8300 cant lock out channels I dont want it just makes searching through the channels that much more agonizing. Also the duplication of the analog tier in the digital space is agravating since there is no quality increase.

Dave


----------



## jtscherne

Guys, Food Network is there. Get used to it. If you don't think Time Warner added it for a reason, then you're not thinking clearly. It is one of the most popular niche cable networks. You can be unhappy, but I don't think they'll be dropping it.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/13812301
> 
> 
> Also the duplication of the analog tier in the digital space is agravating since there is no quality increase.



Although, you should see a difference in space necessary to record these channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13812318
> 
> 
> Guys, Food Network is there. Get used to it. If you don't think Time Warner added it for a reason, then you're not thinking clearly. It is one of the most popular niche cable networks. You can be unhappy, but I don't think they'll be dropping it.



Understood. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about our displeasure in this forum. I accept that they've added it and I know there are many people who seem to love the Food Network. I'm just expressing my opinion. And I'll express it as often as I like.


----------



## clevemkt

I was just looking at the lineup card for Time Warner's suburban Cleveland system. The HD channels in the 400's doesn't list WEAO-HD. Is that a misprint or aren't they carrying the other PBS station? Is it on QAM?


----------



## gforaker

Here in the Akron system, they carry both PBS HD channels. I can't recall a time when they were not broadcasting identical shows. The standard def channels sometimes are different, but I don't think the HD ones are. This might not be true in strange programming such as auctions and such, which I haven't tuned in, but the prime shows are always identical.


----------



## clevemkt

My understanding is that PBS is feeding an HD feed that both stations "pass-through"... but PBS will make it their main feed later this year. It will be a mix of HD and SD, like ABC or CBS now. At that point, the programs on both stations would be considerably different as they are now on analog. Just thought it was strange that they carried both down here in Summit County but not in Cleveland.


----------



## edjrwinnt

A new day and TimeWarner still sucks! Nobody has b!tched about them in a day so I had to say it.










I still have not gotten my guide update yet here in North Virginia. My cable box in my bedroom now says "unauthorized" so I have to call TWC yet again. I should have stocked up on Vaseline before I started dealing with this company.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13812473
> 
> 
> Although, you should see a difference in space necessary to record these channels.



I haven't measured this at all (SA8000HD DVR), but I'm guessing that's incorrect. The "mirrored" analog channels appear to still be analog, even up in the territory above 100. I can't see how that would affect how they're recorded.


Flip back and forth between them, say, CNN at 34 and 350. The tuner doesn't even try to change the channel!


Last night, CNN International (357) was simulcasting CNN's election coverage, and THAT is a digital cable channel.


This is how it is for the new lineup out of TWC in Cleveland. You're in Cincinnati, and they may have the digital versions of the analog cable channels there. We only have the digital feed (SD) versions of the network OTA stations here.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/13813953
> 
> 
> I was just looking at the lineup card for Time Warner's suburban Cleveland system. The HD channels in the 400's doesn't list WEAO-HD. Is that a misprint or aren't they carrying the other PBS station? Is it on QAM?



WEAO-HD was added to the channel lineup card for former Adelphia/Cleveland even back before the lineup change - they started putting it in (710, I think) shortly after the Adelphia acquisition was final.


The HD version of PBS 45 & 49 has, as far as I can tell, never actually been carried on the TWC Cleveland lineup. Of course, 45/49 have had varying problems with carrying, then not carrying, then carrying HD again.


As noted by others, for now, WVIZ and WNEO/WEAO's HD feeds are identical except for the channel ID bugs.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13814700
> 
> 
> I haven't measured this at all (SA8000HD DVR), but I'm guessing that's incorrect. The "mirrored" analog channels appear to still be analog, even up in the territory above 100. I can't see how that would affect how they're recorded.
> 
> 
> Flip back and forth between them, say, CNN at 34 and 350. The tuner doesn't even try to change the channel!
> 
> 
> Last night, CNN International (357) was simulcasting CNN's election coverage, and THAT is a digital cable channel.
> 
> 
> This is how it is for the new lineup out of TWC in Cleveland. You're in Cincinnati, and they may have the digital versions of the analog cable channels there. We only have the digital feed (SD) versions of the network OTA stations here.



Sorry, I've heard of other cases where TWC puts the digital counterparts to their analog lineup in a higher numbered channel set (some times 800s, sometimes not) and I assumed that was the case here. It seems weird to me that they would map the analog frequencies to two different channel numbers. Are you guys sure these are analog channels and not a digital simulcast? You could always check the frequency of the channel in the diagnostic mode (if still possible) to see if there's a difference.


----------



## rluyster

Has anyone in the group heard anything lately concerning WOAC (ch.s 67/47)? I was under the impression when they were purchased by Multicultural Broadcasting in 2006 that they were eventually going to some kind of ethnic programming like they have on their other stations but they've remained infomercials 24/7. Has anything more been said/written that I've missed?


----------



## dleising

I did notice an HD version of PBS's news show, "News Hour" I think it's called..?...?

It was on during the 7 PM hour on both PBS HD feeds.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/13815850
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the group heard anything lately concerning WOAC (ch.s 67/47)? I was under the impression when they were purchased by Multicultural Broadcasting in 2006 that they were eventually going to some kind of ethnic programming like they have on their other stations but they've remained infomercials 24/7. Has anything more been said that I've missed?



No idea, who wants to watch infomercials all day? The tower is right down the road from me, and there is usually a car in front of the broadcast building, so at least somebody works there...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/13815850
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the group heard anything lately concerning WOAC (ch.s 67/47)? I was under the impression when they were purchased by Multicultural Broadcasting in 2006 that they were eventually going to some kind of ethnic programming like they have on their other stations but they've remained infomercials 24/7. Has anything more been said/written that I've missed?



Multicultural Broadcasting only owned radio stations before they acquired WOAC-TV/DT. I think it was an assumption that the ownership's name would indicate the type of programming carried.


There is such a station (i.e. ethnic TV) in Ontario, it skips down here from time to time on ch 69 (analog). Even then they also carry the usual independent channel fare (I believe I saw a Simpsons rerun once). Anything would be better than all infomercials all the time. Remember when Paxon ran both this station and ch 23 that way before they launched the PAX network?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/13815857
> 
> 
> I did notice an HD version of PBS's news show, "News Hour" I think it's called..?...?
> 
> It was on during the 7 PM hour on both PBS HD feeds.



It's about time! The News Hour launched in HD awhile ago, yet neither WVIZ or WEAO/WNEO carried it on their HD feed (WQED in Pittsburgh did carry the News Hour HD feed from the get-go). I guess initially a local PBS station had to have the ability to break-away from the PBS HD feed in order to get the News Hour.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13812218
> 
> 
> You're "accepting" it but.....and then you gripe about something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're trying hard to accept it. Good luck to you. And about the descriptions? I don't recall how good they were on the SA 8300 but I know that TiVo's descriptions sometimes are not very good either. Sometimes it says something like " a killer is loose and two cops who don't like each other pursue him." That type of thing.



I've had generic descriptions like that occasionally on Passport but now every description is like that. Passport used to list at least three actors in movies. On Navigator we're lucky to get at least one. Tonight's Jay Leno just says "Jay Leno interviews celebrities and hosts musical performances". Titan TV lists his guests.


----------



## schandorsky

I emailed Time Warner today to ask when we would get the change over in Amherst and this is the answer I got:


Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.

There is no exact time frame on when it will be completed....the re-alignment started in Canton in early March..the whole region will take several weeks to complete



Sincerely,

Mark

Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative




Also I got my bill today and I see cable card went from $2.50 to $3.10.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/13817296
> 
> 
> I emailed Time Warner today to ask when we would get the change over in Amherst and this is the answer I got:
> 
> 
> Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
> 
> There is no exact time frame on when it will be completed....the re-alignment started in Canton in early March..the whole region will take several weeks to complete
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I got my bill today and I see cable card went from $2.50 to $3.10.



Well, that will teach you to email them and ask for customer service!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13817181
> 
> 
> I've had generic descriptions like that occasionally on Passport but now every description is like that. Passport used to list at least three actors in movies. On Navigator we're lucky to get at least one. Tonight's Jay Leno just says "Jay Leno interviews celebrities and hosts musical performances". Titan TV lists his guests.



Here's TiVo's: President Jimmy Carter; director Jon Favreau; P.O.D performs.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13817575
> 
> 
> Here's TiVo's: President Jimmy Carter; director Jon Favreau; P.O.D performs.



I also found that at Titan TV. Doesn't Titan TV or one of those TV guide websites supply Tivo with their guide data? Time Warner should seriously invest in better guide data.


I can see another daily ritual for me: checking the online TV guide










I wonder what other good musical guests I missed b/c Navigator?







I see P.O.D. is on tonight.


----------



## GregF2

That is so sad. They should not have put in their original letter that it would be rolled out in March and April if that would not be the case. I am getting tired of waiting.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/13817296
> 
> 
> I emailed Time Warner today to ask when we would get the change over in Amherst and this is the answer I got:
> 
> 
> Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
> 
> There is no exact time frame on when it will be completed....the re-alignment started in Canton in early March..the whole region will take several weeks to complete
> 
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I got my bill today and I see cable card went from $2.50 to $3.10.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13817887
> 
> 
> I also found that at Titan TV. Doesn't Titan TV or one of those TV guide websites supply Tivo with their guide data? Time Warner should seriously invest in better guide data.
> 
> 
> I can see another daily ritual for me: checking the online TV guide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what other good musical guests I missed b/c Navigator?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see P.O.D. is on tonight.



No, Titan doesn't provide guide for TiVo. It's provided by Tribune Media, which owns zap2it.com and a few other things like The Chicago Tribune, The L.A. Times, and I believe they own WGN.


I have no idea who or what P.O.D. is but I'll bet that their music sounds like a P.O.S.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/13817950
> 
> 
> That is so sad. They should not have put in their original letter that it would be rolled out in March and April if that would not be the case. I am getting tired of waiting.



I'm really not trying to start trouble here with the TiVo vs SA 8300 thing, but what is interesting is that really I could have had the new lineup a month ago had I actually paid attention to the TiVo Lineup specialist that phoned me. He told me I could get the new line up by redoing guided setup and selecting Franklin instead of Aurora but I didn't think that was possible and said I would wait.


I still don't know how or why my TiVo HD got the new lineup on it's own but running guided setup is how I got the new line up for the S3 and selecting the now available Cleveland digital line up.


Isn't it odd that I could control the line up change for my area before regular subscribers could? But it doesn't matter now since I did what I usually do and never believe anything a CSR tells me, although in this case this guy was a lineup specialist.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13818541
> 
> 
> I'm really not trying to start trouble here with the TiVo vs SA 8300 thing, but what is interesting is that really I could have had the new lineup a month ago had I actually paid attention to the TiVo Lineup specialist that phoned me. He told me I could get the new line up by redoing guided setup and selecting Franklin instead of Aurora but I didn't think that was possible and said I would wait.
> 
> 
> I still don't know how or why my TiVo HD got the new lineup on it's own but running guided setup is how I got the new line up for the S3 and selecting the now available Cleveland digital line up.
> 
> 
> Isn't it odd that I could control the line up change for my area before regular subscribers could? But it doesn't matter now since I did what I usually do and never believe anything a CSR tells me, although in this case this guy was a lineup specialist.



It wouldn't work. If the channels are not being broadcast by your head end, they are not going to show up on your TV. With generic IPGs like Tivo or the one that comes built in on many new TVs, you can select different cable/satellite systems and get the lineup. But if your provider doesn't have the channel, you're still not going to get it. You got the new lineup now because that's when your headend made the changes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/13815313
> 
> 
> Are you guys sure these are analog channels and not a digital simulcast? You could always check the frequency of the channel in the diagnostic mode (if still possible) to see if there's a difference.



Not only is the signal clearly analog (complete with the usual analog fuzz), a channel change between 34 and 350 doesn't even cause a "blip" in the picture.


If 350 was a digital simulcast, it'd take the usual second and change to decode.


All the other new lineup 100-plus channels that have analog versions act that way, or at least the half-dozen or so I've tried.


As I mentioned, the OTA broadcast stations (3/5/8/19) have been digitally subbed since the Adelphia days, and they do indeed come up in digital on the boxes.


We went through this when it happened, but they did (pre-lineup change) show up also in the 800's - but the analog got pushed up there on the box. The digital simulcast version replaces the analog version on channel positions 3/4/5/8 (4 is where they put CBS affiliate WOIO/19). The new 100-plus lineup versions of the analog channels don't act this way.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13818959
> 
> 
> It wouldn't work. If the channels are not being broadcast by your head end, they are not going to show up on your TV. With generic IPGs like Tivo or the one that comes built in on many new TVs, you can select different cable/satellite systems and get the lineup. But if your provider doesn't have the channel, you're still not going to get it. You got the new lineup now because that's when your headend made the changes.



Depends on how you look at it... There are two things taking place - addition of the new HD channels, and the reorg of the channels. As far as the additional channels, I'll agree that if the headend isn't sending it to you, you're not gonna pick it up. (Duh.







)


However, the reorg is a different matter. Since only digital channels are being affected, and the IPG lineup is essentially a mapping of channel number to frequency and subchannel, it's entirely possible that TiVo users could make use of the new mappings _before_ the new IPG tables are pushed out to SA8300 boxes in the area. The data streams reside on the same frequency/subchannel as before, just the channel numbers change.


I can get the same effect by manually tweaking the channel lineup on my MythTV box. If I want WJW-HD to show up as channel 9285, it's just a matter of changing an entry in a lookup table. I did this a year ago because I didn't like the Akron channel numbering. Made WKYC 903, WEWS 905, WJW 908, WUAB 943, WOIO 919, etc. (9 + the broadcast channel number.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13819755
> 
> 
> Depends on how you look at it... There are two things taking place - addition of the new HD channels, and the reorg of the channels. As far as the additional channels, I'll agree that if the headend isn't sending it to you, you're not gonna pick it up. (Duh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> However, the reorg is a different matter. Since only digital channels are being affected, and the IPG lineup is essentially a mapping of channel number to frequency and subchannel, it's entirely possible that TiVo users could make use of the new mappings _before_ the new IPG tables are pushed out to SA8300 boxes in the area. The data streams reside on the same frequency/subchannel as before, just the channel numbers change.
> 
> 
> I can get the same effect by manually tweaking the channel lineup on my MythTV box. If I want WJW-HD to show up as channel 9285, it's just a matter of changing an entry in a lookup table. I did this a year ago because I didn't like the Akron channel numbering. Made WKYC 903, WEWS 905, WJW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 908, WUAB 943, WOIO 919, etc. (9 + the broadcast channel number.)



I think I have to agree with Nickdawg. When you run your guided set up TiVo ask what you see on certain channels. Usually they provide 2 choices for each two different local channels. In this case both of the channels were on the rearranged analog lineup. It use to be WVIZ and EWTN. This time it was HSN and a community channel.


However that doesn't mean that Franklin isn't on the same head-end that Aurora is. The idea that Tribune Media was trying to get to me was if they already have made the changes in my area and they hadn't set up the line up yet, select Franklin as opposed to Aurora.


And when I ran guided set up this time it gave me Aurora, Franklin and City of Cleveland. Also by that time zap2it.com had changed their lineup to include Cleveland Digital Realignment on their web page. And also TiVo didn't ask me at all about any digital channels. For those of you who don't know TiVo in the guided set up will present channels until you recognize them. Once you see two that are the same then they start the guided setup. So if you did know HSN or like in my case originally EWTN they offer another channel that you might recognize.


Matter of fact I generally delete all religious channels off my TiVo just in the off chance that I decide to let it record suggestions. When you get a new TiVo it will throw a few of those at you.










I guess I'll never know if it would have worked since I didn't try. I should have tried it.


----------



## gforaker

Or make that a new undocumented feature.


We subscribe to DW TV, a German Language channel. My wife is a German teacher and sometimes copies shows to DVR and then edits and copies over to tape or DVD to use in the classroom.


After the conversion to Navigator, everything seems OK and DW can be viewed just fine live. Any recording goes through, but plays back with no sound. I just had a TW tech out last night and he confirmed it by hooking up another 8300 box and duplicated the problem.


Apparently, we are the first to report it. I don't know if it is the same with any other premium foreign language channel.


They are now checking to see if it is a problem at the head end in transmission or with the Navigator software, but it has to be Navigator since it works fine with Passport.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13818492
> 
> 
> No, Titan doesn't provide guide for TiVo. It's provided by Tribune Media, which owns zap2it.com and a few other things like The Chicago Tribune, The L.A. Times, and I believe they own WGN.
> 
> 
> I have no idea who or what P.O.D. is but I'll bet that their music sounds like a P.O.S.




F.Y.I. - P.O.D. is a christian rock band.


-Ed


Yes, my whole house is now navigator'ed...


----------



## G3VIZIO

Anyone else notice the big push by AT&T to take away market share from TWC in particular? They are pushing their dish package and Uverse as well. No Uverse on my street yet.


----------



## lefkas

Does anyone know whether the digital converter boxes that the government is offering coupons for will (a) allow your old analog TV to receive a digital signal, or (b) convert the digital signal being picked up by your antenna to an analog signal on the set ? I am confused as to which will be happening. The government web site only says the converter boxes will allow your analog TV to keep working after Feb. 17, 2009, but doesn't say how.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13831785
> 
> 
> Does anyone know whether the digital converter boxes that the government is offering coupons for will (a) allow your old analog TV to receive a digital signal, or (b) convert the digital signal being picked up by your antenna to an analog signal on the set ? I am confused as to which will be happening. The government web site only says the converter boxes will allow your analog TV to keep working after Feb. 17, 2009, but doesn't say how.



DTV Coupons are for converters only. Converting Digital to Analog.


- CECBs must convert all ATSC formats to NTSC. The units must support a 4:3 center crop of a 16:9 transmitted image, and a letterbox rendition of a 16:9 transmitted image


- The following output features are prohibited per CECB specs: Component video, VGA, RGB, DVI, HDMI, USB video, IEEE-1394/iLink/Firewire video, Ethernet video, and IEEE-802.11/Wifi video outputs


Wiki DTV Coupon eligible STB's with basic feature comparisons (I don't know how complete this list is):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13831785
> 
> 
> Does anyone know whether the digital converter boxes that the government is offering coupons for will (a) allow your old analog TV to receive a digital signal, or (b) convert the digital signal being picked up by your antenna to an analog signal on the set ? I am confused as to which will be happening. The government web site only says the converter boxes will allow your analog TV to keep working after Feb. 17, 2009, but doesn't say how.



Bit confused by your wording - the converter boxes do both (a) and (b) ...


Hook rabbit ears to new converter box --> box converts digital OTA (including HD channels) to 480i format --> outputs composite audio/video to your analog TV (the boxes also have a coax cable RF channel 3/4 output as well)


----------



## Smarty-pants

The converter boxes will take the DIGITAL signals and convert them into ANALOG so that your analog tv will be able to accept the signal.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13831802
> 
> 
> DTV Coupons are for converters only. Converting Digital to Analog.



So is there another device that allows an analog TV to get a digital signal OTA? Is that a digital tuner ?


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13831935
> 
> 
> Bit confused by your wording - the converter boxes do both (a) and (b) ...
> 
> 
> Hook rabbit ears to new converter box --> box converts digital OTA (including HD channels) to 480i format --> outputs composite audio/video to your analog TV (the boxes also have a coax cable RF channel 3/4 output as well)



So you are saying the converter box can do either depending on whether your analog TV has a composite audio/video connection. Older analog TVs do not, meaning you will only get an analog signal on those. Is that right ?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13831965
> 
> 
> So is there another device that allows an analog TV to get a digital signal OTA? Is that a digital tuner ?



Yes, but you are still doing the same thing when connecting to an analog TV: converting digital to analog resulting in an NTSC 480i image. You will just have to compare and match up your TV's available inputs with the different CECB box's available ouputs.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13832008
> 
> 
> So you are saying the converter box can do either depending on whether your analog TV has a composite audio/video connection. Older analog TVs do not, meaning you will only get an analog signal on those. Is that right ?



Don't know what outputs the device will have. Hopefully, they will have coaxial (i.e., the older set I think you are describing), composite, and s-video. Any of these are analog. Coaxial will be available on all (worst signal), composite on most (next best) and s-video on some (best).


However, I wouldn't bet money that they will be capable of taking a HD broadcast (720p or 1080i) and downconverting them to analog 480i. They may only be capable of receiving and converting a 480i digital to 480i analog.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/13832090
> 
> 
> Don't know what outputs the device will have. Hopefully, they will have coaxial (i.e., the older set I think you are describing), composite, and s-video. Any of these are analog. Coaxial will be available on all (worst signal), composite on most (next best) and s-video on some (best).
> 
> 
> However, I wouldn't bet money that they will be capable of taking a HD broadcast (720p or 1080i) and downconverting them to analog 480i. They may only be capable of receiving and converting a 480i digital to 480i analog.



They will take a HDTV signal or and SDTV signal and convert to analog output, either RF CH 3-4 or component video, audio L & R. Most allow selection of center-cut or letterbox video. EPG is supported. Some will bypass and allow analog signals to go directly to the outputs. That will be handy until the shutoff or after for receiving low power or translators which will remain analog after Feb 2009. wikipedia "set top box" for a list of boxes and specs.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13832008
> 
> 
> So you are saying the converter box can do either depending on whether your analog TV has a composite audio/video connection. Older analog TVs do not, meaning you will only get an analog signal on those. Is that right ?



As far as I know, all the coupon-eligible converter boxes (CECBs) have a composite audio/video output as well as an RF output. So your analog TV can be connected to the CECB via the yellow/red/white wire (composite), or via a coaxial cable, and your TV is then tuned to channel 3 or 4. You will use the remote for the CECB to tune to the digital over-the-air stations such as 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 19-2, 43-1, etc. Regardless of whether those channels are SD 4:3 format or HD 16:9 format, they will be passed to your analog TV. You can tell the CECB to pass the channels in letterbox format (with black bars on the top) or "zoomed" to cut out the middle 4:3 portion.


Bottom line whether your old analog TV has composite ("yellow jack") input or just a coaxial cable input, you will be able to receive all of the over-the-air digital channels using the CECB.


Heck, even if your old TV only had twin-lead inputs, you could put a balun (coax to twin lead) adapter on the TV, tune the TV to channel 3 or 4, and connect a CECB to it and view the digital channels.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/13832090
> 
> 
> Don't know what outputs the device will have. Hopefully, they will have coaxial (i.e., the older set I think you are describing), composite, and s-video. Any of these are analog. Coaxial will be available on all (worst signal), composite on most (next best) and s-video on some (best).
> 
> 
> However, I wouldn't bet money that they will be capable of taking a HD broadcast (720p or 1080i) and downconverting them to analog 480i. They may only be capable of receiving and converting a 480i digital to 480i analog.



I believe both RF (coax) and Composite (RCA) are mandated ouputs. S-video is optional. These CECB converters are doing exactly that, converting Digital OTA 720/1080 to Analog 480.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/13832164
> 
> 
> They will take a HDTV signal or and SDTV signal and convert to analog output, either RF CH 3-4 or component video, audio L & R. Most allow selection of center-cut or letterbox video. EPG is supported. Some will bypass and allow analog signals to go directly to the outputs. That will be handy until the shutoff or after for receiving low power or translators which will remain analog after Feb 2009. wikipedia "set top box" for a list of boxes and specs.



Errr - not "component" video! I think you mean "composite". The CECBs are not allowed to have HD output (component, HDMI or DVI)


Got to be careful when typing this stuff up, there's so much misinformation and confusion out there.


----------



## hookbill

It converts digital to analog, and man what a great picture compared to what it was. All 3 of my birds in that room give it 5 chirps and my cockatoo gives several screams.


Of course that has nothing to do with the television. Seriously it sure makes a nice picture on a very small television.


Of course it can't come close to HD but still much better. But I can't get WKYC with rabbit ears.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13832238
> 
> 
> Errr - not "component" video! I think you mean "composite". The CECBs are not allowed to have HD output (component, HDMI or DVI)
> 
> 
> Got to be careful when typing this stuff up, there's so much misinformation and confusion out there.



Well that sucks. Looks like I might end up just buying the box myself. I have an analog SD TV in the kitchen that I wanted a box for, but I still want the HDMI/Component ouptuts b/c that TV isn't gonna last forever. I want to be able to use it for HD later on. Maybe even on my main HDTV if Time Warner pisses me off enough.

















Lots of good info here today. Does anyone know if any of these boxes are capable of getting unencrypted digital cable signals, similar to the ATSC TV tuners? I know they probably are not coupon eligible, but I just want to know if they are out there.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13833111
> 
> 
> Well that sucks. Looks like I might end up just buying the box myself. I have an analog SD TV in the kitchen that I wanted a box for, but I still want the HDMI/Component ouptuts b/c that TV isn't gonna last forever. I want to be able to use it for HD later on. Maybe even on my main HDTV if Time Warner pisses me off enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of good info here today. Does anyone know if any of these boxes are capable of getting unencrypted digital cable signals, similar to the ATSC TV tuners? I know they probably are not coupon eligible, but I just want to know if they are out there.



Yes, combo OTA and QAM tuner STB's are out there (this is what I use), but QAM is specifically prohibited on the DTV Coupon boxes.


You might want to just get the simplistic coupon box for now then when you upgrade the tv get either built in tuners (OTA/QAM) or get an HD OTA STB tuner with QAM at that time.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13833111
> 
> 
> Lots of good info here today. Does anyone know if any of these boxes are capable of getting unencrypted digital cable signals, similar to the ATSC TV tuners? I know they probably are not coupon eligible, but I just want to know if they are out there.



QAM (unencrypted digital cable) tuning not allowed in the gub-ment subsidized CECBs.


Here's the rundown of the specifications:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CECB 


There are boxes out there that will do QAM and ATSC, like the Samsung DTB-H260F which costs around $179. Totally ridiculous pricing considering the guts of the $179 box are almost the same as the new $50 boxes.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Yah, ones with QAM are out there. I've had one for about a year that works great on the tv in my kids playroom. Puts out a nice clean 480i pic. The one I have sure didn't cost 179. I think I paid like 89 or something, and I think they can be had much cheaper now on eBay.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13833278
> 
> 
> QAM (unencrypted digital cable) tuning not allowed in the gub-ment subsidized CECBs.
> 
> 
> Here's the rundown of the specifications:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CECB
> 
> 
> There are boxes out there that will do QAM and ATSC, like the Samsung DTB-H260F which costs around $179. Totally ridiculous pricing considering the guts of the $179 box are almost the same as the new $50 boxes.



Yeah, that's my box, the H260f. Many of the guts are obviously similar. Where these boxes separate themselves from the cheaper versions is options. But the feature set on an H260f is not on many boxes.


Typical CECB box features:

- L/R Audio

- RF (coax) video out

- Composite video out

- S-video (maybe)

- ATSC tuner (but limited to downconverting to NTSC)


For an H260f take the $40 to $60 dollar range CECB box (like above) and add:

- addl. L/R Audio

- addl. Composite video out

- HDMI output (audio & video)

- Component output

- Digital Optical Audio

- selectable output resolution (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)

- QAM tuner


Whether these addl. features are worth another $100 only you can decide. These features have been well worth the extra $$$ to me!


----------



## Michael P 2341

You may have to do some retrofitting for analog TV's with built-in antennas. On some of the cheaper TV's the antenna may be hard-wired inside the TV and/or have an external antenna input that is not a standard co-ax (i.e. a mini plug). Someone at work had this problem with a kitchen TV.


----------



## ZManCartFan

The kids were watching Nick this morning, and an Armstrong commercial came on for their DVR. They said something about "now you can start watching a show on one TV and finish watching on another." I don't think they were talking about VOD, but I guess they could have been.


Anybody know about this? Is box-to-box networking a feature of the Pace units? I might be tempted to switch out the Motorolas if this is the case.


----------



## nickdawg

I think that would be a Scientific Atlanta box. With the right hardware/software the 8300HD can be a multi-room DVR with other SA boxes(3250HD, 4250HD, 3100HD).


Looks like yet another reason to hate Time Warner. They can't even change their lineups in the month like they promised and they can't succesfully download new software for ONE DVR!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13844103
> 
> 
> I think that would be a Scientific Atlanta box. With the right hardware/software the 8300HD can be a multi-room DVR with other SA boxes(3250HD, 4250HD, 3100HD).



I seem to remember that from somewhere as well, but I thought you had to run a splitter from the out to TV and then wire it.


I started into a little thing about the possibility of that being real and before you know it I was taking shots at the 8300 again. Realzing what I was doing I deleted that but I would like to know how it works. And for the record TiVo can't do that.


----------



## nickdawg

This is the instruction manual for MR-DVR from Scientific Atlanta:

http://scientificatlanta.com/product...fs/4003869.pdf 


The manual shows the MR-DVR with the SARA operating system. Again this shows the stupidity of Time Warner deciding to use Navigator. To think they are getting rid of a much better system with many possibilities and replacing it with that navigator garbage.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13845321
> 
> 
> This is the instruction manual for MR-DVR from Scientific Atlanta:
> 
> http://scientificatlanta.com/product...fs/4003869.pdf
> 
> 
> The manual shows the MR-DVR with the SARA operating system. Again this shows the stupidity of Time Warner deciding to use Navigator. To think they are getting rid of a much better system with many possibilities and replacing it with that navigator garbage.



I see. That's really a different model, the SA 8300 MVR. TW wasn't using that one anyway. Probably cost more to use them.










And I'm glad to see that you are so embracing these changes!







You can see in your post that each day you are becoming more accepting and less bitter.


----------



## black88mx6

Picked up the new TW channel lineup this afternoon some time. It wasn't there this morning, but all the new HD channels are now there. 445, 446,447,448. Looks like they are finally getting to the rest of the old Adelphia network.


North Royalton / Hinckley / Strongsville


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/13850076
> 
> 
> North Royalton / Hinckley / Strongsville



Hmm, that's odd. In the new TWC lineup card, North Royalton and Strongsville are paired with "Suburban Cleveland 2" along with places like North Olmsted, Westlake, Garfield Heights and Valley View. Hinckley is in "Suburban Cleveland 1".


The lineups don't seem different from what I can see, but they're paired together that way in the lineup cards.


Which of the three are you in?


----------



## TV21CHIEF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13842037
> 
> 
> The kids were watching Nick this morning, and an Armstrong commercial came on for their DVR. They said something about "now you can start watching a show on one TV and finish watching on another." I don't think they were talking about VOD, but I guess they could have been.
> 
> 
> Anybody know about this? Is box-to-box networking a feature of the Pace units? I might be tempted to switch out the Motorolas if this is the case.



It is VOD only. You can order on one dct and watch on another that is in the same account. It works with any make or model of box.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13850326
> 
> 
> Hmm, that's odd. In the new TWC lineup card, North Royalton and Strongsville are paired with "Suburban Cleveland 2" along with places like North Olmsted, Westlake, Garfield Heights and Valley View. Hinckley is in "Suburban Cleveland 1".
> 
> 
> The lineups don't seem different from what I can see, but they're paired together that way in the lineup cards.
> 
> 
> Which of the three are you in?



I am in Hinckley. My headend is in Strongsville (at least what I have been told when they came out multiple times to fix my cable modem), with feeds though North Royalton.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/13850076
> 
> 
> Picked up the new TW channel lineup this afternoon some time. It wasn't there this morning, but all the new HD channels are now there. 445, 446,447,448. Looks like they are finally getting to the rest of the old Adelphia network.
> 
> 
> North Royalton / Hinckley / Strongsville



Cleveland gets rocked beginning Tuesday morning.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13852064
> 
> 
> Cleveland gets rocked beginning Tuesday morning.



Hmmmm....seems like we heard this a couple of months ago about this Tuesday thing.










Tribune Media (zap2it.com) only offers one Cleveland lineup, so I don't think there is any difference anymore between the Suburbs and Cleveland.


----------



## Rbuchina

I just recieved a call from my wife who said they began the reallignment in Mentor this morning. She said she noticed the locals were not where they used to be (200s) when she turned the TV on to view her morning shows. When she found what was labeled as the HD locals she said the picture looked nothing like HD so she turned the set off and went on to other things. It sounds like they still have some work to do.


Ray


----------



## GregF2

New lineup is now in Amherst too.


----------



## ClevelandFan

Bay Village has been realigned. Anybody know where the VOD QAM channels are mapped in Bay Village. So far I have found 82.x and 83.x but there has to be at least one more. I can request a VOD movie and it often plays on 82.x or 83.x but sometimes it does not. I am guessing that there is another channel it shows up on. Any thoughts?


----------



## hookbill

Well kudos go to Cathode kid. It appears his prediction is true as we can see from the prevous post.


We'll forget about that original post back in March. Hey, when you bat .500 you're doing pretty darn good!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandFan* /forum/post/13857218
> 
> 
> Bay Village has been realigned. Anybody know where the VOD QAM channels are mapped in Bay Village. So far I have found 82.x and 83.x but there has to be at least one more. I can request a VOD movie and it often plays on 82.x or 83.x but sometimes it does not. I am guessing that there is another channel it shows up on. Any thoughts?



Try useing the channel up and channel down buttons on your remote.


----------



## ClevelandFan

It does not show up on any of the channels that my tuner found (and yes, I did a channel scan while the the VOD was playing). Is anyone aware of any new encryption technology that TWC has adopted that permits VOD to be encrypted (even while fast forwarding etc.)?


----------



## Smarty-pants

It may be that the the "new" system in not quite finished being installed. Therefore not all channels/features are available.


----------



## Ben Music

Finally, we got the new lineup out in the North Ridgeville/Elyria area

this morning. Does anyone out there still use the Motorola box from the former Comcast areas? Mine still works fine, except that ever since TWC took over, the on-demand has never worked. Every time I try to connect, the blue box pops up that says communications error, please try again. Does anyone else with a Moto box have the same problem or am I the only one?


Ben Music


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13857262
> 
> 
> Well kudos go to Cathode kid. It appears his prediction is true as we can see from the prevous post.
> 
> 
> We'll forget about that original post back in March. Hey, when you bat .500 you're doing pretty darn good!



Check your lineup tomorrow morning, Hookbill.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13859783
> 
> 
> Check your lineup tomorrow morning, Hookbill.



Dude.....my lineup has been changed for a couple of weeks now. I don't know if you read the post but one of my TiVo's picked up the new lineup, the other didn't. TiVo actually called me and told me to run guided set up and select Cleveland and there was the new lineup.


I don't know how one received it without running the guided setup. It's probably been around for a while now.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13859810
> 
> 
> Dude.....my lineup has been changed for a couple of weeks now. I don't know if you read the post but one of my TiVo's picked up the new lineup, the other didn't. TiVo actually called me and told me to run guided set up and select Cleveland and there was the new lineup.
> 
> 
> I don't know how one received it without running the guided setup. It's probably been around for a while now.



Sorry, I keep forgetting that you're not served by Macedonia but from points farther north. You're correct. But others there will notice the change.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13861018
> 
> 
> Sorry, I keep forgetting that you're not served by Macedonia but from points farther north. You're correct. But others there will notice the change.



Nope, I'm served by Concord. Switched my area over several months ago.


----------



## G3VIZIO

Well, I wanted to see what all this line up talk was all about ans TWC inticed me with a cheap 3 month deal to dry a DVR / HD Digital Box. When they come and do the install do they bring an HDMI cable? What can I expect? I've been using mt QAM tuner with basic cable up until now.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13861981
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to see what all this line up talk was all about ans TWC inticed me with a cheap 3 month deal to dry a DVR / HD Digital Box. When they come and do the install do they bring an HDMI cable? What can I expect? I've been using mt QAM tuner with basic cable up until now.



I don't use TWC but most cable companies don't provide HDMI cables. Usually RG6 coax or component at best.


----------



## Chris Isble

I know this is a little off topic, but with all the changes happening at TW, are any of them supposed to effect their internet service?


I have a laptop computer, and get my e-mail service from an independent server via SMTP Relay. TW is my ISP, both at home in Lyndhurst and at the office in Solon.


As of yesterday, I cannot send e-mail from my office in Solon. Everything works fine from home.


If it was the mail server, it seems like it wouldn't work from anywhere. It is not the computer setup, because it still works from home. That, and the fact that it died on a Tuesday, leads me to suspect TW.


When I call TW support, they direct me to a page to test to see if they are blocking my mail server. The test says everthing is fine.


Is there any way to find out if anything happened in Solon this week?


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13861981
> 
> 
> Well, I wanted to see what all this line up talk was all about ans TWC inticed me with a cheap 3 month deal to dry a DVR / HD Digital Box. When they come and do the install do they bring an HDMI cable? What can I expect? I've been using mt QAM tuner with basic cable up until now.



TWC will not provide an HDMI cable. They "may" provide a component video cable though. I would just hook it up via component video with the optical audio connection to start and get the HDMI cable later. MonoPrice in the link on top of this page has some good pricing for HDMI cables. I do not yet have HDMI inputs on my present reciever and I am guite happy with the component connection on the cable box. I do use an HDMI to DVI cable to the input on my TV for my PS3 so BR disks and other video sources are upconverted to my 720P set.


Ray


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/13863844
> 
> 
> Is there any way to find out if anything happened in Solon this week?



I'm pretty sure all the video changes have nothing to do with Internet service. I don't see how they could, actually.


What port does your SMTP service use? I have no problems using Gmail's outgoing SMTP port (587, I think).


I can't explain the test page showing no blocking, tho.


----------



## nosey313

Realignment occured here in Sagamore Hills today. A couple things though:


1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.


2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?


I'm glad I finally got some new HD channels, but it's still far short of what I want. Any input on the above points would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13868574
> 
> 
> 2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?



Just a rough guess, but have you tried rebooting the box? I had the same happen on my 8300HD a while back except it was with the weather channel on position 25 when the box was set to just go to the last tuned channel. A reboot seemed to fix it immediately.


EDIT: I am over in Warren in the legacy TWC area. As orange5814 stated in the below post, it may possibly be left over from Adelphia. But a reboot wouldn't hurt to try.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13868574
> 
> 
> Realignment occured here in Sagamore Hills today. A couple things though:
> 
> 
> 1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.
> 
> 
> 2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?
> 
> 
> I'm glad I finally got some new HD channels, but it's still far short of what I want. Any input on the above points would be appreciated. Thanks.




1. Twinsburg has the new line-up, but no Navigator.


2. My box also defaults to channel 71. About 3 years ago, Adelphia disabled the "power on" channel feature. My box used to be able to select "last channel tuned" , or you could pick a channel.


I have heard that they are re-enabling the feature with Navigator ?????


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/13863844
> 
> 
> I know this is a little off topic, but with all the changes happening at TW, are any of them supposed to effect their internet service?
> 
> 
> I have a laptop computer, and get my e-mail service from an independent server via SMTP Relay. TW is my ISP, both at home in Lyndhurst and at the office in Solon.
> 
> 
> As of yesterday, I cannot send e-mail from my office in Solon. Everything works fine from home.
> 
> 
> If it was the mail server, it seems like it wouldn't work from anywhere. It is not the computer setup, because it still works from home. That, and the fact that it died on a Tuesday, leads me to suspect TW.
> 
> 
> When I call TW support, they direct me to a page to test to see if they are blocking my mail server. The test says everthing is fine.
> 
> 
> Is there any way to find out if anything happened in Solon this week?



I think it's just a coincidence that it happened on a day that the channels were realigned in some areas. Can you still surf the web from the office?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13868574
> 
> 
> 1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.



The lineup change and the Navigator change are two different things that are happening at around the same time.


I'm in the old Adelphia area in western Summit County, and we've had the new lineup for a couple or three weeks now, but neither of my boxes are Navigatored yet.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13868574
> 
> 
> 1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the *"prettier"* interface.



I hate to break it to you, but when Navigator comes it will NOT be a "prettier" interface. What it really is, a dark, dingy, less user-friendly interface. And be prepared for shorter and even non-existent program descriptions.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13870003
> 
> 
> I hate to break it to you, but when Navigator comes it will NOT be a "prettier" interface. What it really is, a dark, dingy, less user-friendly interface. And be prepared for shorter and even non-existent program descriptions.



Another indication of how nickdawg is accepting and embracing Navigator.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Folks to the west (Avon, Bay Village, etc) check your lineup tomorrow morning. Ben, I believe your new Music arrives tomorrow.


----------



## hookbill

Hey guys, the last two nights I've been trying to reach amazon.com. I keep stalling. It seems as I track it I get hung up in Washington DC as it travels around the net. Yeah, I know what a surprise.










Anyway, can a couple of you guys who use TW try it and let me know if you have any luck? Appreciate it. I did phone it in but who knows if anything will happen.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13870073
> 
> 
> Another indication of how nickdawg is accepting and embracing Navigator.



I see you enjoy this. Just wait till Navigator comes to your house


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13870945
> 
> 
> I see you enjoy this. Just wait till Navigator comes to your house



I dunno. I have Navigator here in Warren on an 8300HDC box and aside from some very minor slowdown and horrendous hard-boot times (very few reboots here, btw, unless I initiate myself) in comparison to my previous 8000 running passport, haven't yet seen any major showstopping problems.


*shrug* Maybe I'm just more lenient on Time Warner in their development of a (roughly) 6 month old application in comparison to something like SARA or Passport which has been in development for years now.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13870286
> 
> 
> Hey guys, the last two nights I've been trying to reach amazon.com. I keep stalling. It seems as I track it I get hung up in Washington DC as it travels around the net. Yeah, I know what a surprise.



I was able to bring it up from here over RR... I did a little testing from four different providers (TWC, XO, AT&T, and Megapath) - they're all showing signs of routing table confusion at Level3 near Washington...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/13863844
> 
> 
> I have a laptop computer, and get my e-mail service from an independent server via SMTP Relay. TW is my ISP, both at home in Lyndhurst and at the office in Solon.
> 
> 
> As of yesterday, I cannot send e-mail from my office in Solon. Everything works fine from home.
> 
> 
> If it was the mail server, it seems like it wouldn't work from anywhere. It is not the computer setup, because it still works from home.



It's not unusual for ISPs to block outgoing connections to port 25 (SMTP) other than to their own mail servers to cut down on the spam leaving their networks. Effective (sorta), but very annoying. AT&T loves to do this in some areas but not in others...


Unfortunately, this practice tends to come and go depending on who's in charge and what mood they're in...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/13871119
> 
> 
> I dunno. I have Navigator here in Warren on an 8300HDC box and aside from some very minor slowdown and horrendous hard-boot times (very few reboots here, btw, unless I initiate myself) in comparison to my previous 8000 running passport, haven't yet seen any major showstopping problems.
> 
> 
> *shrug* Maybe I'm just more lenient on Time Warner in their development of a (roughly) 6 month old application in comparison to something like SARA or Passport which has been in development for years now.



It's actually not a 6 month old application. Navigator is really Mystro Digital Navigator(MDN) which was developed for Time Warner DVRs back around 2003 For whatever reason it was shelved in favor of Passport/SARA until around 2006 when it was unsuccessfully deployed in Nebraska. It also made an appearance again in 2007 after the cable card legislation was passed requiring new cable STBs to have cable cards. A new software platform was needed for this, so ODN-OCAP Digital Navigator came into the picture. I've had experience with the HDC boxes, particularly the 8300, and it was a POS. Much worse than the current 8300HD I have.


Now TW is releasing Navigator in an attempt to have a standardized guide across all systems as well as a platform for new features like Start Over and other interactive TV features. The thing that angers me about this is it's unnecessary. Both Passport and SARS are capable of features similar to the ones on Navigator. All it would require is some $$$ spent on new software licenses.


True Passport and SARA did have some problems early on, but they were resolved. I've been using Passport DVR since the early days(2004) and it's improved since then.


The main problem is they're trying to fix something that isn't broken. They've replaced a solid, familiar product with something buggy and foreign. I have had a reboot just from flipping through the guide. Also it has been forcing everything into PCM 48 since this morning when there was an EAS test.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13871672
> 
> 
> True Passport and SARA did have some problems early on, but they were resolved. I've been using Passport DVR since the early days(2004) and it's improved since then.
> 
> *The main problem is they're trying to fix something that isn't broken.* They've replaced a solid, familiar product with something buggy and foreign. I have had a reboot just from flipping through the guide. Also it has been forcing everything into PCM 48 since this morning when there was an EAS test.



ROFLMAO


I'll be fair, TiVo has it's share of problems as well. Even I have got hit with some buggy features lateley like handshaking issues when going from SD to HD via an HDMI to DVI connection. And then there is this new TiVo Desktop that sucks up more memory then my Dyson sucks up dirt.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13870945
> 
> 
> I see you enjoy this. Just wait till Navigator comes to your house



Remember Nickdawg, take the meds. Navigator will never come to my house. I have that TiVo thing.....


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13870286
> 
> 
> Hey guys, the last two nights I've been trying to reach amazon.com. I keep stalling. It seems as I track it I get hung up in Washington DC as it travels around the net. Yeah, I know what a surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, can a couple of you guys who use TW try it and let me know if you have any luck? Appreciate it. I did phone it in but who knows if anything will happen.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Hook, I just got off the Roadrunner forum on Broadband Reports and this is a known "server maintenance" problem that they (TWC) is "working on." A work-around is to disable javascript in your browser and/or go in with https:// instead of http://.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13871246
> 
> 
> It's not unusual for ISPs to block outgoing connections to port 25 (SMTP) other than to their own mail servers to cut down on the spam leaving their networks. Effective (sorta), but very annoying. AT&T loves to do this in some areas but not in others...
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, this practice tends to come and go depending on who's in charge and what mood they're in...



Thank you all for your suggestions. My SMTP server responds to port 25, but will also work with port 80 and port 3535. All ports work from Lyndhurst. The problems started on Tuesday, in both Solon and Moreland Hills. In all three locations TW is the ISP. I have no problems surfing the web, or receiving e-mail.


When I call TW, they say that because I can telnet into the SMTP server, it is not their fault. When I call Go Daddy, they say that the Outlook log shows that the SMTP server responded to the EHLO command. The fact that it timed out means that no more commands were sent. Because it works from home, there is nothing wrong with my computer or with the SMTP server, and it must be TW.


I understand both arguments, but no one will investigate further, and no one seems to be able to give me a definitive test to identify where the problem is.


The TW rep did say that he has received more calls about this SMTP server in the last two days then he has in the last three years. The call he took before mine was from somebody in LA.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13868574
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?



I use an MX70 remote, and programmed a macro to both power the unit on, and change the channel. This may not be an option for you, but it works for me.


----------



## Ben Music

Hey Hook,


I got the new channel lineup ok on my Moto box here in Ridgeville this week, but my Tivo s3 doesn't seem to want to update. I tried a channel rescan but it still shows the old lineup. Is there some trick that I should use to make it work?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/13872465
> 
> 
> Hey Hook,
> 
> 
> I got the new channel lineup ok on my Moto box here in Ridgeville this week, but my Tivo s3 doesn't seem to want to update. I tried a channel rescan but it still shows the old lineup. Is there some trick that I should use to make it work?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Ben, when you did your rescan with your zip code what did it offer for you? If your regular area doesn't work and it shows Cleveland or another nearby area pick that one and see what happens.


If it just shows only area, call TiVo. But it should show more then just one choice. I had a choice of either Aurora, which would have been my regular (old) lineup, Cleveland, and also another choice and they told me a while back to use that choice if they didn't have a change by then.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/13872128
> 
> 
> Hook, I just got off the Roadrunner forum on Broadband Reports and this is a known "server maintenance" problem that they (TWC) is "working on." A work-around is to disable javascript in your browser and/or go in with https:// instead of http://.



Thanks for the info. I had a feeling it might be a java issue because it seemed images were hanging.


I wonder what Amazon.com feels about that.


----------



## schandorsky

I thought all the new channels(100's, 200's, 300's etc.) we just got from Time Warner were digital. Sci Fi, TCM, etc. are still analog. All they did was group the channels and gave a few HD channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/13876509
> 
> 
> I thought all the new channels(100's, 200's, 300's etc.) we just got from Time Warner were digital. Sci Fi, TCM, etc. are still analog. All they did was group the channels and gave a few HD channels.



Do tell!










We discussed this seveal pages back. Yes, they are just mirror channels of the analog. The point of putting them on those channels was to "group" them into categories, because Time Warner thinks it thinks like we do.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13870003
> 
> 
> I hate to break it to you, but when Navigator comes it will NOT be a "prettier" interface. What it really is, a dark, dingy, less user-friendly interface. And be prepared for shorter and even non-existent program descriptions.



Learn why words are in quotes. Usually means sarcasm. If I really meant prettier, I wouldn't have put it in "quotes."


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13871873
> 
> 
> Remember Nickdawg, take the meds. Navigator will never come to my house. I have that TiVo thing.....



Didn't you say you have a 3100HD or something on another TV for VOD?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13876942
> 
> 
> Learn why words are in quotes. Usually means sarcasm. If I really meant prettier, I wouldn't have put it in "quotes."



Nice sarcasm







Sometimes sarcasm and the intended message can get lost in typing. Just wanted to be sure you knew what you were in for with Navigator.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13877105
> 
> 
> Didn't you say you have a 3100HD or something on another TV for VOD?



Yeah, I had a STB for a while in the bedroom and it worked just fine. I think in was the 3600HD. Only problem with it really was that eveytime I looked at the menu it reminded me of the SA 8300.










Since I replaced it with the TiVo HD I was able to use the DVI which wasn't activated on the SA 3600. And that was fine until TiVo did their latest update which was 9.3. When they did that one it was suppose to fix bugs but it also seems to have cause some people problems. With me it caused a handshaking issue with the television and HDMI to DVI plug in.


I disconnected it and went back to component which I had with the SA STB. TiVo really struck out there. In order to make it work correctly I for HD I had to go to a digital or analog channel, wait about 1 minute and then go to the HD channel. Otherwise everything looked kind of green, and yes I had my components plugged in correctly.


I ended up going back to the DVI-HDMI because to fix that problem it's just turn the set off and then back on.


This however is nothing like the problems I had with the SA 8300 of course. Still, it seems that different televisions can cause some problems for TiVo. But one thing....It never misses a recording. I can't say that about the SA 8300.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13877296
> 
> 
> This however is nothing like the problems I had with the SA 8300 of course. Still, it seems that different televisions can cause some problems for TiVo. But one thing....It never misses a recording. I can't say that about the SA 8300.



Many set manufacturers seem to have trouble implementing HDMI/HDCP correctly. Restarting the set forces a new handshake and crypto setup. The thing is the handshake should be kept alive at all times, even when the HDMI input is deselected or the set is turned off (even though it's not really "off" when it's off). It causes a lot of aggravation.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13877496
> 
> 
> Many set manufacturers seem to have trouble implementing HDMI/HDCP correctly. Restarting the set forces a new handshake and crypto setup. The thing is the handshake should be kept alive at all times, even when the HDMI input is deselected or the set is turned off (even though it's not really "off" when it's off). It causes a lot of aggravation.



I think it's the hdmi to dvi connector, because my other TV is straight HDMI and I have no problems.


However I didn't have this problem until TiVo installed 9.3.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13873699
> 
> 
> If it just shows only area, call TiVo. But it should show more then just one choice. I had a choice of either Aurora, which would have been my regular (old) lineup, Cleveland, and also another choice and they told me a while back to use that choice if they didn't have a change by then.



The lineup I successfully used on my TiVo S2 was named "Time Warner City of Cleveland". I'm in the old Adelphia area in western Summit County, and had to use ZIP 44321 (Copley) to get it. He can probably get it by grabbing a western suburban ZIP in Cuyahoga County that used to be Adelphia, but that's just a guess.


Was North Ridgeville an old Adelphia region?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13877296
> 
> 
> But one thing....It never misses a recording. I can't say that about the SA 8300.



I've never missed a recording on the 8300HD(unless I forget to set it







)


----------



## mnowlin

Anybody see the news about NBC turning on the broadcast flag? I certainly hope this goes away quickly - don't want the other networks to adopt this policy...

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/05/15/0312256.shtml


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13879377
> 
> 
> Anybody see the news about NBC turning on the broadcast flag? I certainly hope this goes away quickly - don't want the other networks to adopt this policy...
> 
> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/05/15/0312256.shtml



I don't think they can legally do that.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13879989
> 
> 
> I don't think they can legally do that.



You don't think NBC can legally protect their content? You're joking, right?


----------



## Ben Music

Inundated,


North Ridgeville was former Comcast.


Bsn Music


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/13880519
> 
> 
> North Ridgeville was former Comcast.



Oh. Then picking "Time Warner City of Cleveland" on TiVo's Guided Setup would probably not be a good idea, as it spits out the Cleveland lineup for the former Adelphia areas (including the analogs, which are different).


The lineup you probably want is showing up on Zap2It.com as "Time Warner Cable-Elyria/Mentor-Digital Rebuild" when you put in the NR Zip Code (44039). I don't know how it shows up with TiVo's Guided Setup.


----------



## Ben Music

Inundated,


I finally got it to change to the new lineup. The problem was my fault. When I started the rescan they gave me a choice of 2 PBS channels and wanted to know which one was in my old lineup. I must of had a senior moment, and picked the wrong one. Oh well,

all is good now. Thanks.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/13884654
> 
> 
> Inundated,
> 
> 
> I finally got it to change to the new lineup. The problem was my fault. When I started the rescan they gave me a choice of 2 PBS channels and wanted to know which one was in my old lineup. I must of had a senior moment, and picked the wrong one. Oh well,
> 
> all is good now. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I'm glad you got it figured out Ben. I don't know if you read some of my earlier threads but I may have had access to the new line up even earlier if I actually listened to the TiVo rep that called me.


Sometimes they are right.


----------



## Chess Piece Face

Hey everybody, I'm new here...I just had a couple of questions if anybody wants to answer, thanks!


I am using Elgato EyeTVPlus 250 into my 30" Apple Cinema HD Display. I built a bowtie style antenna out of coat hangers, washers, a board and a balun from Radio Shack, following a video on youtube...(don't have the link handy but it's pretty easy to google if you want to try building it.)


I am located in Hudson. Indoors (in my computer room) just leaning it against the wall I got every local Cleveland/Akron channel in HD perfectly except for NBC WKYC 3 and WOIO CBS 19. Well, I got a motorolla signal booster, which did nothing.


Then, I went in my attic and found (we just bought this house a few months ago) a large antenna already mounted. I attached the balun and used the signal booster and ran a long cable and only got 2 HD channels.


Finally, I put my home built antenna in the attic, with the signal booster and a long cable and now I am receiving WOIO CBS 19 in Cleveland AND Fox and CBS in Youngstown but still, no WKYC. (or no NBC from Youngstown, or anywhere).


Here is my question, thank you for reading this far...


I know that WKYC is VHF. Is there anything I can do to get it with the antenna I have built? Do I need to buy a special VHF antenna and a combiner and put them both into my eyetv?


Basically I am just confused about VHF vs UHF and what exactly my antenna will get. Everytime I read up on it on the web it is confusing.


Thanks!


-Chess


----------



## Chess Piece Face

Here's the link to the antenna that works so well:


http ://www .youtube .com /watch? v= EWQhlmJTMzw


To further clear up why I am confused: I looked at antennaweb.com and according to them, WOIO 19-1 is a yellow VHF with a compass heading of 318 degrees and 16 miles away. And the NBC is also yellow VHF, compass heading of 319, and 16 miles away. That seems pretty close but I don't get NBC.


The only difference is that is says CBS frequency is 10 and NBC frequency is 2. I don't know what this means but this must be the problem?


Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## nickdawg

I wouldn't worry too much about WKYC right now. Next year WKYC is moving to channel 17(after 2/17/09). And WOIO is supposed to be staying on channel 10. WOIO is at a disadvantage now b/c a Canadian station is also on channel 10, making them have to broadcast at a lower power.


WKYC really got the short stick in the digital channel postions. Not only are they VHF, but they were on channel 2. That's just cruel!


WEWS is 15, WJW is 31, WBNS is 30 and WKYC is moving to 17. OTA _should_ get better once WKYC moves.


You cna try playing around with that antenna. Could be kinda fun to see what is out there plus you may get it.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13879989
> 
> 
> I don't think they can legally do that.



Unfortunately, they can... The broadcast flag is part of the ATSC standard, and there's nothing that says a station or network can't turn it on at will. However, due to a huge amount of petitioning of Congress and a ruling by the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the requirement for receiving equipment to *obey* the flag was shot down a few years ago.


Right now, only MS Vista obeys the flag for whatever reason. Microsoft wasn't required to implement it, but they did - still waiting for news from MS as to why.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chess Piece Face* /forum/post/13885695
> 
> 
> Here's the link to the antenna that works so well:
> 
> 
> http ://www .youtube .com /watch? v= EWQhlmJTMzw
> 
> 
> To further clear up why I am confused: I looked at antennaweb.com and according to them, WOIO 19-1 is a yellow VHF with a compass heading of 318 degrees and 16 miles away. And the NBC is also yellow VHF, compass heading of 319, and 16 miles away. That seems pretty close but I don't get NBC.
> 
> 
> The only difference is that is says CBS frequency is 10 and NBC frequency is 2. I don't know what this means but this must be the problem?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.



An attic antenna can reduce the signal by 50% (walls, insulation foil, roof shingles, etc...). I had the same issues trying to get the notoriously weak ch's 3 & 19 using a full size directional antenna in the attic. Switching to a much smaller outdoor non-directional antenna solved the problem.


Be careful with "boosters" as they are often not needed and can simply amplify (boost) an already bad signal. Any chance you could temporarily run your antenna outside? This would at least give you an idea how much your attic is hampering your signal(s).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13886908
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, they can... The broadcast flag is part of the ATSC standard, and there's nothing that says a station or network can't turn it on at will. However, due to a huge amount of petitioning of Congress and a ruling by the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, the requirement for receiving equipment to *obey* the flag was shot down a few years ago.
> 
> 
> Right now, only MS Vista obeys the flag for whatever reason. Microsoft wasn't required to implement it, but they did - still waiting for news from MS as to why.



Why in the world would MS do that? I have a Media Center PC running Windows XP and I never use it for media because I don't know how or why I would, but if I wanted to why would they restrict me?


Oh and for those of you wondering my wife bought this PC for me. While she is very intelligent about PC's she is clueless when it comes to Media and she thought this would be something I would want after she described what I like and do the sales guy at CC.


I don't even know if there is a cable card slot in there, but there probably is if I open it up. And that makes me wonder now that I have a TiVo why would they put the slot inside and not just on the outside? Oh well, it's old now it's about two years old. Maybe the new ones have slots on the outside.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13887448
> 
> 
> Why in the world would MS do that? I have a Media Center PC running Windows XP and I never use it for media because I don't know how or why I would, but if I wanted to why would they restrict me?..........



You haven't even scratched the surface of Copy Protection, DRM, Licensing, etc... Here is just a recent example of just how badly DRM can go:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...-drm-keys.html 


Apple is just as bad (if not worse), I'm not picking on M$. But, yes, these and many other companies do indeed restrict your media access and use.

Not unlike a DVR that will restrict you from off-loading a recorded program (media) to another hard drive.


----------



## Chess Piece Face




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13887281
> 
> 
> An attic antenna can reduce the signal by 50% (walls, insulation foil, roof shingles, etc...). I had the same issues trying to get the notoriously weak ch's 3 & 19 using a full size directional antenna in the attic. Switching to a much smaller outdoor non-directional antenna solved the problem.
> 
> 
> Be careful with "boosters" as they are often not needed and can simply amplify (boost) an already bad signal. Any chance you could temporarily run your antenna outside? This would at least give you an idea how much your attic is hampering your signal(s).



I actually ran it outside once before to test it, although it wasn't up on the roof, and it was the same results as inside (this is when it was just inside my computer room). Perhaps I'll try putting it outside on the roof just for fun, or maybe I'll just have to wait til next year like nickdawg says to get 3.


I would do what you did and buy a smaller outdoor non-directional antenna except that I only spent 5 dollars to build this and now on principle I'm trying to "beat the system" if you know what I mean.










Actually I do have a credit at circuit city right now...what is the antenna brand that worked for you?


Thank you


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chess Piece Face* /forum/post/13887955
> 
> 
> I actually ran it outside once before to test it, although it wasn't up on the roof, and it was the same results as inside (this is when it was just inside my computer room). Perhaps I'll try putting it outside on the roof just for fun, or maybe I'll just have to wait til next year like nickdawg says to get 3.
> 
> 
> I would do what you did and buy a smaller outdoor non-directional antenna except that I only spent 5 dollars to build this and now on principle I'm trying to "beat the system" if you know what I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I do have a credit at circuit city right now...what is the antenna brand that worked for you?
> 
> 
> Thank you



It's far more discrete than a std "skeleton" antenna or even a dish:
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=SMS2000


----------



## Chess Piece Face

Thank you...I will look into this one.


----------



## nippywiffle

Hi,

Does anyone know what QAM frequency Fox 8 moved to on Time Warner, in the Eastern Cleveland Suburbs (University Heights - old adelphia area).


I used to have it working on 679250, but since the time warner channel change-around, it seems to have stopped working. All my other clear QAM local channels are still working fine on their old frequencies.


I'm using MediaPortal as my DVR on a PC btw.


Thanks,

Dan


----------



## Smarty-pants

Is anyone receiving WBNX-HD via QAM on TW in the North Canton area.

TIA


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13887448
> 
> 
> Why in the world would MS do that?



Oh, I can think of a variety of reasons... World domination, their desire to dictate how computers should work, or maybe an agreement reached with some other company that requires them to implement the broadcast flag in order to include codec XYZ...


My hatred of MS aside, my guess is this was due to either an upper-level manager making an "administrative decision" or a lower-level programmer simply goofing up, either case indicating that somebody didn't understand the ramifications of their decision.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nippywiffle* /forum/post/13891247
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know what QAM frequency Fox 8 moved to on Time Warner, in the Eastern Cleveland Suburbs (University Heights - old adelphia area).
> 
> 
> I used to have it working on 679250, but since the time warner channel change-around, it seems to have stopped working. All my other clear QAM local channels are still working fine on their old frequencies.



Out here near Chagrin Falls, it hasn't moved. I'm pretty sure we're on the same system as the Heights. It shares channel 105 with WEWS. (WEWS is 105.1, WJW is 105.2.) So you should still be getting it at 679.25 MHz as QAM.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13892217
> 
> 
> Oh, I can think of a variety of reasons... World domination, their desire to dictate how computers should work, or maybe an agreement reached with some other company that requires them to implement the broadcast flag in order to include codec XYZ...
> 
> 
> My hatred of MS aside, my guess is this was due to either an upper-level manager making an "administrative decision" or a lower-level programmer simply goofing up, either case indicating that somebody didn't understand the ramifications of their decision.



I see. So Bill Gates is really Lex Luthor! I should have figured that out years ago.










I think the "world domination" theory may be a little antequated at this time. Microsoft has got lots of compitition now, maybe not so much in the platform area but in other areas it has tried to go into. Apple sure has knocked them out of quite a few high tech areas, not to mention that I still like Apple Computers better then Microsoft myself. And GMail also is a big pia to them.


Plus that federal law suit they got a few years shot them down a bit. And don't forget their infamous Ultimate TV. Yes, I know some of you may have loved it but it flopped.


IMHO their Media Center DVR capabilities are laughable if the are accepting that flag. My wife tells me mine doesn't really take a cable card but more like a board that goes into a slot. Who knows if that would work with cable company technology today?


Not to mention that Media Center doesnt even recognize AAC files, at least mine doesn't. Actually I kind of wonder if Apple isn't the one now seeking world domination. I really haven't found a way to get by without using i-Tunes because you have to have the evil Quicktime installed for so many other things. I converted most of my files to M3P but if I just have quicktime installed it flags them as "movie" files and media player doesn't get it. Also my TiVo S3 doesn't get it either when that happens.


At one time you could use i-Tunes to convert AAC to MP3 but that doesn't seem to be available anymore. Or else I'm missing it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13892595
> 
> 
> .............IMHO their Media Center DVR capabilities are laughable if the are accepting that flag..............
> 
> At one time you could use i-Tunes to convert AAC to MP3 but that doesn't seem to be available anymore. Or else I'm missing it.



Home Media Centers/Servers/Home Automation computers are certainly the wave of the future, but are still in their early development stages so they are quite glitchy and not very user friendly........yet.


Your AAC to MP3 conversion problem may well be the DRM issue previously mentioned. There are workarounds to removing DRM protection but it's "jumping through hoops" to have flexible access to your legally purchased music/media that should not require such measures. Removing DRM is illegal, though it would be difficult to prove this in court. DRM, among other issues, is why I've always avoided iTunes/AAC formats.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13892667
> 
> 
> Home Media Centers/Servers/Home Automation computers are certainly the wave of the future, but are still in their early development stages so they are quite glitchy and not very user friendly........yet.
> 
> 
> Your AAC to MP3 conversion problem may well be the DRM issue previously mentioned. There are workarounds to removing DRM protection but it's "jumping through hoops" to have flexible access to your legally purchased music/media that should not require such measures. Removing DRM is illegal, though it would be difficult to prove this in court. DRM, among other issues, is why I've always avoided iTunes/AAC formats.



Yes, they have removed certain programs from the web that will allow you to remove protection. But when you transfer a CD to iTunes it will make it an unprotected AAC file. You USE to be able to make those MP3 if you wanted to but I don't believe you can anymore.


iTunes is also now selling DMR free files, but not necessarily what you may want. I bought one a few weeks back before I realized they finallly had put the AX to DMR removal. I wonder if that's why my computer crashed, it was right around that time?


Anyway I downloaded the new Jack Bruce and Robin Trower album and it was DMR free and I didn't even realize it until I went to remove the protected files.


When my computer crashed I lost My Fair Tunes and I can't find it anywhere on the web anymore. Fortuantely all my music was backed up to another computer.


So now if it's not DMR free I'll just buy the CD. I bought The Stoned Coyotes 8 on CD from the web site, it was 12 bucks with shipping.


Remember when CD's were 18.00 at the store?


----------



## jtscherne

Not true. You can still rip files from CDs into iTunes in either AAC or MP3.


Also, Amazon.com is selling downloadable music in unprotected MP3 format. Their download program automatically adds the songs to iTunes. They have a bigger selection of unprotected music than the iTunes Music Store and their prices are better (.89 per track, generally).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13893674
> 
> 
> Yes, they have removed certain programs from the web that will allow you to remove protection. But when you transfer a CD to iTunes it will make it an unprotected AAC file. You USE to be able to make those MP3 if you wanted to but I don't believe you can anymore.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13893674
> 
> 
> When my computer crashed I lost My Fair Tunes and I can't find it anywhere on the web anymore.



Not that I condone this kind of thing, but http://www.hymn-project.org .


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13893710
> 
> 
> Not true. You can still rip files from CDs into iTunes in either AAC or MP3.
> 
> 
> Also, Amazon.com is selling downloadable music in unprotected MP3 format. Their download program automatically adds the songs to iTunes. They have a bigger selection of unprotected music than the iTunes Music Store and their prices are better (.89 per track, generally).



Yes, I'm well aware of Amazon and they do have a great selection. I checked them out for The Stone Coyotes and they had 7 albums from them available for download......but not The Stone Coyotes 8!!!







They did have the CD.


I don't care if it's AAC, I think I've heard AAC is better then MP3 but it doesn't matter since I have the Universal Music Converter plug in for my TiVo and it will play AAC files from my computer.


But can you still convert AAC to MP3? You use to be able to do that with unprotected AAC files. I don't see that on iTunes anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13893740
> 
> 
> Not that I condone this kind of thing, but http://www.hymn-project.org .



Heh Heh. Have you actually clicked on those links. It's like chasing your tail. If you go to the forum you will see why.


As far as "condone" them there is nothing wrong with doing it provided you don't share it which I don't. I just remove the protection because my TiVo won't play the protected files. I don't share them with anyone.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13893750
> 
> 
> ........I don't care if it's AAC, I think I've heard AAC is better then MP3 but it doesn't matter since I have the Universal Music Converter plug in for my TiVo and it will play AAC files from my computer.
> 
> 
> But can you still convert AAC to MP3? You use to be able to do that with unprotected AAC files. I don't see that on iTunes anymore.



Lossy is lossy. They are both compressed lossy formats.


Yes, you can remove DRM protection on many files by first copying the file to a CD then puting/converting those files where/how you want. That's one of the "jump through hoops" steps I refered to earlier and if you purchased that song you should not be required to do such silly things.










I'm sure there are still iTunes/AAC to *pick your format* converters out there. I was well advised against iTunes/AAC from the get go so I have no knowledge or experience in such converters.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13893750
> 
> 
> But can you still convert AAC to MP3? You use to be able to do that with unprotected AAC files. I don't see that on iTunes anymore.



When you set your ripping format (AAC or MP3 under Preferences/Advanced/Importing), iTunes gives you the option to convert tracks into the same format. For example, to convert AAC to MP3, you first set your ripping preference to MP3. Then when you click on a file, you are given the option to convert the file from AAC to MP3.


This works in the reverse as well. Of course, as already pointed out, this conversion further compresses the file.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13893946
> 
> 
> Lossy is lossy. They are both compressed lossy formats.
> 
> 
> Yes, you can remove DRM protection on many files by first copying the file to a CD then puting/converting those files where/how you want. That's one of the "jump through hoops" steps I refered to earlier and if you purchased that song you should not be required to do such silly things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are still iTunes/AAC to *pick your format* converters out there. I was well advised against iTunes/AAC from the get go so I have no knowledge or experience in such converters.



Yep, that's jumping through hoops, but I gotcha you. I didn't even think about that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13893997
> 
> 
> When you set your ripping format (AAC or MP3 under Preferences/Advanced/Importing), iTunes gives you the option to convert tracks into the same format. For example, to convert AAC to MP3, you first set your ripping preference to MP3. Then when you click on a file, you are given the option to convert the file from AAC to MP3.
> 
> 
> This works in the reverse as well. Of course, as already pointed out, this conversion further compresses the file.



I'll take a look at that. Thanks for the info.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13893997
> 
> 
> When you set your ripping format (AAC or MP3 under Preferences/Advanced/Importing), iTunes gives you the option to convert tracks into the same format. For example, to convert AAC to MP3, you first set your ripping preference to MP3. Then when you click on a file, you are given the option to convert the file from AAC to MP3.
> 
> 
> This works in the reverse as well. Of course, as already pointed out, this conversion further compresses the file.



Yes, and each lossy to lossy conversion degrades the audio even further.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13893850
> 
> 
> Heh Heh. Have you actually clicked on those links. It's like chasing your tail. If you go to the forum you will see why.
> 
> 
> As far as "condone" them there is nothing wrong with doing it provided you don't share it which I don't. I just remove the protection because my TiVo won't play the protected files. I don't share them with anyone.



There are hundreds of thousands of threads on various forums (fori?) as to whether or not "there is nothing wrong" with it.










But you're preaching to the choir. Let's not get that started here, though.


So that we're back on track, what do you suppose the odds are of Channel 5 showing a good Cavs game this afternoon with no technical hiccups?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13894104
> 
> 
> There are hundreds of thousands of threads on various forums (fori?) as to whether or not "there is nothing wrong" with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you're preaching to the choir. Let's not get that started here, though.
> 
> 
> So that we're back on track, what do you suppose the odds are of Channel 5 showing a good Cavs game this afternoon with no technical hiccups?



Better yet, what are the odds the Cavs are going to give a good game??


----------



## Smarty-pants

They've gotten this far, couldn't you give them just a little credit?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13894187
> 
> 
> They've gotten this far, couldn't you give them just a little credit?



I'm not giving NewsChannel 5 ANY credit!! Their "eff-up" required me to adjust my H/V position settings to adjust their excessive amount of blank space under the ESPN news/score bar at the bottom of the screen.










Go Cavs


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13894982
> 
> 
> I'm not giving NewsChannel 5 ANY credit!! Their "eff-up" required me to adjust my H/V position settings to adjust their excessive amount of blank space under the ESPN news/score bar at the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go Cavs



I had the game on the last quarter so I could watch them loose.










I didn't see any picture problems at all. Then again I don't have a way to adjust my picture up in down with this TV. I'm happy to say when I ran the HDnet calibration none of my lines had any color in them so it didn't need adjusting.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, your tv must have overscan like mine. I can't see it on my lcd tv. My projector in my theater doesn't have overscan enabled, and there is definately a black bar at the bottom of the screen because they have the picture shifted up too much. Channel 5-HD has been this way for quite a while.


----------



## Smarty-pants

The Cavs gave it the ole college try didn't they? I've never seen such a one man show. I feel bad for Labron. It's like no one on the team wants it... at all, except Labron. He's the only one with a competetive spirit. I just don't get it.


----------



## GregF2

Some show seem like the freeze lately on ABC and some other HD channels on TW using Motorola box. Is anyone else have this happening? Is this a TW or box issue? Or is it a station issue. Just happened on ABC and also seems to happen on Greys Anatomy. Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/13895584
> 
> 
> Some show seem like the freeze lately on ABC and some other HD channels on TW using Motorola box. Is anyone else have this happening? Is this a TW or box issue? Or is it a station issue. Just happened on ABC and also seems to happen on Greys Anatomy. Thanks!



Yeah, I noticed the freeze ups during the after game local interview. Pretty bad.


And for the record guys, I see it all happening again. The great L.A. Lakers vs Boston Celtics rivalry is returning.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13895552
> 
> 
> The Cavs gave it the ole college try didn't they? I've never seen such a one man show. I feel bad for Labron. It's like no one on the team wants it... at all, except Labron. He's the only one with a competetive spirit. I just don't get it.



See that's the big problem with the Cavs IMHO. They just rely too much on Labron.


Personally, I'd like to see him in the purple and gold playing with Kolby on the Lakers.


Labron, do you hear that call? It's Hollywood. Lakers. Dynasties. Huge Endorsements. Hang out with Jack Nicholas. They have a spot for you.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Fook the Lakers, the Cavs just need some better players. Just a decent Center would be a DRAMATIC inprovement.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13895502
> 
> 
> I had the game on the last quarter so I could watch them loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see any picture problems at all. Then again I don't have a way to adjust my picture up in down with this TV. I'm happy to say when I ran the HDnet calibration none of my lines had any color in them so it didn't need adjusting.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13895528
> 
> 
> Hook, your tv must have overscan like mine. I can't see it on my lcd tv. My projector in my theater doesn't have overscan enabled, and there is definately a black bar at the bottom of the screen because they have the picture shifted up too much. Channel 5-HD has been this way for quite a while.



I have a Plasma TV and the overscan is great. Almost nothing is "cut off". It's nice, as long as the networks keep up their end. I always hated SDTVs b/c of things like the Action News logo being cut off or channel bugs or other text right in the corner. Now I watch everything with sidebars so that's not a problem. But some HD channels are bad. I was watching NYPD Blue on TNT HD







and it was definately a stretched analog upconvert. The one edge was fuzzy and a sizeable amout of blank space was left.


WEWS HD has been that way for awhile. It was slightly out of position around the time they went HD but it has been worse lately.


Do they not have even ONE HD monitor in the building? Do none of their employees have HD or watch their own damn channel?


WEWS is a technical nightmare. I should have known better.


----------



## jamesco411




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13895657
> 
> 
> Fook the Lakers, the Cavs just need some better players. Just a decent Center would be a DRAMATIC inprovement.










....Z has been the lone staple of consistency on this squad other than LBJ this season and in the playoffs (not counting todays game).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13895637
> 
> 
> See that's the big problem with the Cavs IMHO. They just rely too much on *Labron*.
> 
> 
> Personally, I'd like to see him in the purple and gold playing with *Kolby* on the Lakers.
> 
> 
> Labron, do you hear that call? It's Hollywood. Lakers. Dynasties. Huge Endorsements. Hang out with Jack Nicholas. They have a spot for you.



Wait, are we talking about *LeBron* and *Kobe*?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jamesco411* /forum/post/13895778
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....Z has been the lone staple of consistency on this squad other than LBJ this season and in the playoffs (not counting todays game).



I know, I'm just ticked because he played ball for like 15 minutes today, the rest of the time he was like a zombie.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13895792
> 
> 
> Wait, are we talking about *LeBron* and *Kobe*?



yeah...just like I said.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jamesco411* /forum/post/13895778
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....Z has been the lone staple of consistency on this squad other than LBJ this season and in the playoffs (not counting todays game).



Oh, please. Z is far from "consistency". The only players worth keeping are LBJ and Delonte West. The rest of them have proved to be variously useless in the last two seasons, no heart.


Well at least I won't give a **** about ABC/ESPN's lousy 720p presentation the rest of the NBA season because I won't be watching it, LOL.


Mr Quicken Loans needs to step up and buy some backup talent for LeBron. But maybe with the housing market the way it is now, he can't afford it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/13897303
> 
> 
> ............Mr Quicken Loans needs to step up and buy some backup talent for LeBron. But maybe with the housing market the way it is now, he can't afford it.



If Mr. Q wants to keep LeBron beyond his current contract he had better be socking away LOTS of cash now! Unfortunately, to do so greatly hampers Q's ability to buy supporting players in the interim.










One man does not make a team, and a team relying on one man is going to be disappointed when he bolts for a bigger pay check.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13895502
> 
> 
> I had the game on the last quarter so I could watch them loose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see any picture problems at all. Then again I don't have a way to adjust my picture up in down with this TV. I'm happy to say when I ran the HDnet calibration none of my lines had any color in them so it didn't need adjusting.



Perhaps had they played 'loose' they'd have had a better chance of not 'losing'?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/13898104
> 
> 
> Perhaps had they played 'loose' they'd have had a better chance of not 'losing'?



Exactly! I love it when you make a typo and someone takes the time to point it out to the world.


----------



## hookbill

I know I've seen this discussed many times so please excuse me for asking again.


Since I got this digital converter I know that some of the channels actually are broadcasting on UHF even though their analog is VHF, correct?


So what channels broadcast on VHF and who's on UHF. I'm more concerned with WEWS and WJW. As it stands right now I can't get anything out of WKYC, matter of fact it's so bad that I actually set my receiver on channel 3 and got improved reception over channel 4.










And for the stations that are UHF does moving the rabbit ears help at all or should I just fool with the center antenna. I know raising the grain up full blast seems to help.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13902339
> 
> 
> I know I've seen this discussed many times so please excuse me for asking again.
> 
> 
> Since I got this digital converter I know that some of the channels actually are broadcasting on UHF even though their analog is VHF, correct?
> 
> 
> So what channels broadcast on VHF and who's on UHF. I'm more concerned with WEWS and WJW. As it stands right now I can't get anything out of WKYC, matter of fact it's so bad that I actually set my receiver on channel 3 and got improved reception over channel 4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for the stations that are UHF does moving the rabbit ears help at all or should I just fool with the center antenna. I know raising the grain up full blast seems to help.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.




vhf WJW 8 FOX CLEVELAND, OH 74° 7.8 8

vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS, OH 67° 9.5 10

vhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND, OH Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 74° 7.8

vhf WEWS 5 ABC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 8.0 5

vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 9.8 2

vhf WKYC 3 NBC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 9.8 3


uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS, OH 67° 9.5 19

uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND, OH 74° 7.8 31

uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 8.0 15

uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland, OH 68° 9.1 34

uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN, OH 66° 8.1 28

uhf WUAB 43 MNT LORAIN, OH 66° 8.1 43

uhf WVIZ 25 PBS CLEVELAND, OH 82° 6.1 25

uhf WQHS 61 UNI Cleveland, OH 68° 9.1 61

uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND, OH 82° 6.1 26

uhf WBNX 55 CW AKRON, OH 69° 9.4 55

uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON, OH 69° 9.4 30


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13902414
> 
> 
> vhf WJW 8 FOX CLEVELAND, OH 74° 7.8 8
> 
> vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS, OH 67° 9.5 10
> 
> vhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND, OH Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 74° 7.8
> 
> vhf WEWS 5 ABC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 8.0 5
> 
> vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 9.8 2
> 
> vhf WKYC 3 NBC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 9.8 3
> 
> 
> uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS, OH 67° 9.5 19
> 
> uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND, OH 74° 7.8 31
> 
> uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND, OH 69° 8.0 15
> 
> uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland, OH 68° 9.1 34
> 
> uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN, OH 66° 8.1 28
> 
> uhf WUAB 43 MNT LORAIN, OH 66° 8.1 43
> 
> uhf WVIZ 25 PBS CLEVELAND, OH 82° 6.1 25
> 
> uhf WQHS 61 UNI Cleveland, OH 68° 9.1 61
> 
> uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND, OH 82° 6.1 26
> 
> uhf WBNX 55 CW AKRON, OH 69° 9.4 55
> 
> uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON, OH 69° 9.4 30



Since I'm in Bainbridge that kind of explains why I can sort of get WOIO. That's not too far from Shaker Heights.


But WKYC....not a chance. Best station is WQHS but my cocatoo only speakes cockatooeses and English.


Cockatooese is a kind of babbling of sorts, speaking but not making any sense. When he wants to argue he frequently uses this.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13902634
> 
> 
> Since I'm in Bainbridge that kind of explains why I can sort of get WOIO. That's not too far from Shaker Heights.
> 
> 
> But WKYC....not a chance. Best station is WQHS but my cocatoo only speakes cockatooeses and English.
> 
> 
> Cockatooese is a kind of babbling of sorts, speaking but not making any sense. When he wants to argue he frequently uses this.



Yeah, ch. 3 is always going to be *iffy* the further out you go. I'm sure I'm much closer to the towers than you and I only get 75% signal with an outdoor antenna for ch. 3.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13902634
> 
> 
> Since I'm in Bainbridge that kind of explains why I can sort of get WOIO. That's not too far from Shaker Heights.
> 
> 
> But WKYC....not a chance. Best station is WQHS but my cocatoo only speakes cockatooeses and English.
> 
> 
> Cockatooese is a kind of babbling of sorts, speaking but not making any sense. When he wants to argue he frequently uses this.



So he's like one of those Spanish-American "spit-fire" type women. They seem to speak perfect English until they get mad at you...


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13902339
> 
> 
> I know I've seen this discussed many times so please excuse me for asking again.
> 
> 
> Since I got this digital converter I know that some of the channels actually are broadcasting on UHF even though their analog is VHF, correct?
> 
> 
> So what channels broadcast on VHF and who's on UHF. I'm more concerned with WEWS and WJW. As it stands right now I can't get anything out of WKYC, matter of fact it's so bad that I actually set my receiver on channel 3 and got improved reception over channel 4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for the stations that are UHF does moving the rabbit ears help at all or should I just fool with the center antenna. I know raising the grain up full blast seems to help.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Hook - to correct some erroneous information posted earlier, WKYC and WOIO are the only local VHF channels right now. You need to go by the frequency assignments (noted below), not the analog channel number to which it resolves. Because of it's low VHF frequency, and the distance, WKYC will be hard to get for you.


Also, with the exception of WVIZ (which is on a temporary, very low power transmitter on Brookpark Road), all of the towers for the stations noted below are within 2 miles of each other (about 18-20 miles from Bainbridge town hall).


The good news is that, according to antennaweb.org, it looks like WKYC will be moving to UHF-17 in Feb 2009, which should make it infinitely easier to get. Unfortunately, it also says that WJW will be moving to VHF-8 which will likely make it more difficult to receive.


VHF Stations

2.1 - WKYC (NBC)

2.2 - Weather Plus

10.1 - WOIO (CBS)

10.2 - Weather Now


UHF Stations

15.1 - WEWS (ABC)

26.1 - WVIZ (PBS)

28.1 - WUAB (My43)

30.1 - WBNX (CW)

31.1 - WJW (Fox)

34.1 - WQHS (Univision)


Regarding your antenna, I've found that slight movements/rotations can make a big difference. Try moving both the rabbit ears and the center. You should be able to find a single position where you can get all the UHF stations (except for WVIZ).


Also, try turning the gain down or completely off until you're absolutely sure you can't get stations without it. In many cases, you're either going to amplify a bad signal and/or cause multi-path problems.


If you're not satisfied with the results, the Philips PHDTV1 is under $20 and worth a try (thanks for the link, Smarty-pants):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007XDI54


----------



## Smarty-pants

 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007XDI54 

(^working link^)


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/13903360
> 
> 
> Hook - to correct some erroneous information posted earlier, WKYC and WOIO are the only local VHF channels right now.
> 
> 
> VHF Stations
> 
> 2.1 - WKYC (NBC)
> 
> 2.2 - Weather Plus
> 
> 10.1 - WOIO (CBS)
> 
> 10.2 - Weather Now
> 
> 
> UHF Stations
> 
> 15.1 - WEWS (ABC)
> 
> 26.1 - WVIZ (PBS)
> 
> 28.1 - WUAB (My43)
> 
> 30.1 - WBNX (CW)
> 
> 31.1 - WJW (Fox)
> 
> 34.1 - WQHS (Univision)



While this is true, it doesn't tell the whole story. It's convenient to divide channels into VHF vs UHF, but if you examine the actual frequencies in use, you'll see that it's only the lowest VHF frequencies that are particularly troublesome. There are really three frequency ranges to consider:


Low VHF (channels 2-6): 55-85MHz

High VHF (channels 7-13) 175-215MHz

UHF (channels 14-83) 470-885MHz


So while the upper VHF channels may create some challenges, the lower ones are going to be FAR more difficult to pull in cleanly.


----------



## Inundated

You probably aren't going to get WKYC-DT until they scoot off of channel 2 onto channel 17 next February. And you probably won't get WVIZ-DT until they join WKYC-DT and power up a full signal.


I'm guessing WJW-DT won't be a bad signal on VHF 8 next year. WOIO's problem on 10 is more related to how it gets clobbered from CFPL over on the other side of the lake...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/13903360
> 
> 
> Hook - to correct some erroneous information posted earlier, .....
> 
> The good news is that, according to antennaweb.org.......



Antennaweb.org is where I got the posted information from (cut & paste).


Perhaps if you pointed out the erroneous ch/freq information I could then inform Antennaweb so they can correct it on their web site.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13904767
> 
> 
> You probably aren't going to get WKYC-DT until they scoot off of channel 2 onto channel 17 next February. And you probably won't get WVIZ-DT until they join WKYC-DT and power up a full signal.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing WJW-DT won't be a bad signal on VHF 8 next year. WOIO's problem on 10 is more related to how it gets clobbered from CFPL over on the other side of the lake...



I thought I had read that one of the channels were going back to VHF next year. So WJW is going back to VHF.


Since the terk antenna you guys gave me a link for is cheap enough, wouldn't that eliminate any chance of getting a VHF signal?


As it is now I have a tough time getting the best station I receive, WEWS in the high 60's. And I don't mind putting out 20 bucks on a new antenna for the bird, I mean we spend over 100.00 each month on toys for them anyway. But keep in mind it is for a bird, not for me. What bothers me is when I go in his room and the signal is stuttering or something I always stop and start trying to adjust the darn thing. And as far as the grain goes, again it's for the bird and it's not a HD tv just an analog converted signal.


I really don't know if Tyler (the bird) even minds the stuttering he's still getting a much better picture then he ever got before.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13905957
> 
> 
> Antennaweb.org is where I got the posted information from (cut & paste).
> 
> 
> Perhaps if you pointed out the erroneous ch/freq information I could then inform Antennaweb so they can correct it on their web site.



Ah, I see the disconnect. Went back and reread you post and the info is correct. Hook was asking for info on digital stations and I missed the fact that you included analog stations in your list.







I typically select the "Show Digital Stations Only" button to filter out the analogs.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13906041
> 
> 
> I thought I had read that one of the channels were going back to VHF next year. So WJW is going back to VHF.
> 
> 
> Since the terk antenna you guys gave me a link for is cheap enough, wouldn't that eliminate any chance of getting a VHF signal?



I get all the local DT stations (except for WVIZ) with that Philips antenna. That includes VHF stations WKYC and WOIO. All are at 95%+ signal strength with no amplifier or gain being used. That being said, I am 7.5-9.5 miles away whereas you're likely 18-20 miles away from the towers. I'm not sure what effect the added distance, transmission patterns, and terrain will have on the signal.


Also, you may have been using Terk in the generic sense, but the Philips model to which the link refers is different. Not saying a Terk brand won't work, just that I have no experience with it. They used to carry these at Sears, BB, and CC under the Philips or Zenith brands, which may have made it more convenient to try and return, but I don't see them available on their websites anymore.


Hope this helps.


----------



## nosey313

When you all turn on the 8300HD, which station is being shown? The guide says its 71 COMMTV, but actually it's non-stop MTV. I find this highly annoying. Anyone else getting this?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/13906518
> 
> 
> I get all the local DT stations (except for WVIZ) with that Philips antenna. That includes VHF stations WKYC and WOIO. All are at 95%+ signal strength with no amplifier or gain being used. That being said, I am 7.5-9.5 miles away whereas you're likely 18-20 miles away from the towers. I'm not sure what effect the added distance, transmission patterns, and terrain will have on the signal..........



WOW! Good guess on distance there ajstan.










Hook: Using my sisters address (Bainbridge, Lake In The Woods Tr., zip 44023) Antennaweb shows 20.7 miles.

Your actual location may be even further.










Like ajstan, I'm about half that distance to the antenna farm and my ch. 3 signal strength is usually in the 75% range with an outdoor antenna. You using a STB/rabbit ears antenna combined with your distance from the tower's would make it much more challenging to get such weak signals.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13906744
> 
> 
> Hook: Using my sisters address (Bainbridge, Lake In The Woods Tr., zip 44023) Antennaweb shows 20.7 miles.
> 
> Your actual location may be even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like ajstan, I'm about half that distance to the antenna farm and my ch. 3 signal strength is usually in the 75% range with an outdoor antenna.



I'm not sure where Hook is in Bainbridge, but I'm in South Russell which is right next door. I'm in 44022, about a mile from the 44023 address you mention above. Bainbridge is a large place, though, and some parts of it are quite far from here.


My house had no antenna when I arrived, so I put up a medium-sized Radio Shack outdoor antenna (probably #15-2152) with a clear view of the horizon to the west. I get channels 3, 5, and 8 at about 90% signal strength, 43 at about 80%, 19 and 55 at about 75%. And I get not a hint of signal from 25.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13906744
> 
> 
> WOW! Good guess on distance there ajstan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hook: Using my sisters address (Bainbridge, Lake In The Woods Tr., zip 44023) Antennaweb shows 20.7 miles.
> 
> Your actual location may be even further.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like ajstan, I'm about half that distance to the antenna farm and my ch. 3 signal strength is usually in the 75% range with an outdoor antenna. You using a STB/rabbit ears antenna combined with your distance from the tower's would make it much more challenging to get such weak signals.



I'm actually right on the edge of Bainbrdge Twp. Matter of fact a small piece of my property actually goes into Portage County.


I'm surprised they haven't sent me a property tax bill.










Bainbridge either uses 44203 and mine is 44202 which is Aurora. I've go some terrain issues as well, There is a huge hill to the South-Southwest and a whole woods full of tree, caverns and hills in between me and Geauga Lake. Nobody on my street has a regular antenna it's either a dish or cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13907422
> 
> 
> I'm not sure where Hook is in Bainbridge, but I'm in South Russell which is right next door. I'm in 44022, about a mile from the 44023 address you mention above. Bainbridge is a large place, though, and some parts of it are quite far from here.
> 
> 
> My house had no antenna when I arrived, so I put up a medium-sized Radio Shack outdoor antenna (probably #15-2152) with a clear view of the horizon to the west. I get channels 3, 5, and 8 at about 90% signal strength, 43 at about 80%, 19 and 55 at about 75%. And I get not a hint of signal from 25.



Yep, it's a bit of a drive on Chilicote Road to get to your place for me. And I have to take Brewster and Pedibone to get there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/13906549
> 
> 
> When you all turn on the 8300HD, which station is being shown? The guide says its 71 COMMTV, but actually it's non-stop MTV. I find this highly annoying. Anyone else getting this?



Now wait just a second! This can't be possible. You mean TW, the company that "Thinks like you do" would do something like this?










There is something you can do about that. If you have a Harmony remote you can actually set it to turn on to any station you want it to. Of course that would mean spending some money if you don't have it but some of them are not too expensive, ebay probably would be helpfull there.


Then there is this other thing called the HD TiVo or TiVo S3. They stay on whatever channel you left them on or what they last recorded if it used both tuners. If it just uses one or no tuner it will come on the last channel that you were watching live. Not to mention all the hundreds of things else it can do.


Now before you guys get started I'm not trying to put down the SA 8300. I'm just mentioning alternatives.


----------



## nickdawg

Seriously? It's called a remote control. You push buttons and the channel changes.










No need to waste money on equipment that will become obselete soon.










Yeah, Navigator stays on my last channel too.


And what's wrong with MTV? I make that statement as I'm looking to see if there's another Rob & Big marathon on. Nope.







Some show "Engaged and Underage". Great!! More news about that Texas polygamist colony


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13907422
> 
> 
> I'm not sure where Hook is in Bainbridge, but I'm in South Russell which is right next door. I'm in 44022, about a mile from the 44023 address you mention above. Bainbridge is a large place, though, and some parts of it are quite far from here.
> 
> 
> My house had no antenna when I arrived, so I put up a medium-sized Radio Shack outdoor antenna (probably #15-2152) with a clear view of the horizon to the west. I get channels 3, 5, and 8 at about 90% signal strength, 43 at about 80%, 19 and 55 at about 75%. And I get not a hint of signal from 25.



Yup, and this is where the antenna type/size/location will make a big difference. My outdoor antenna would certainly be on the small size (22" dish shaped). I grew in Russell Twp. so I know the hurdles necessary to get decent OTA reception out there!







I doubt my current small'ish antenna would pick up very much out that way.


WVIZ-DT (25-1) is listed as around 4.5 miles from me, and no hint of it on my tv's either. Unless you are around 1 mile or less from the WVIZ-DT transmitter you probably won't get a signal. Analog WVIZ (25) comes in fine here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13907727
> 
> 
> Seriously? It's called a remote control. You push buttons and the channel changes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to waste money on equipment that will become obselete soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Navigator stays on my last channel too.
> 
> 
> And what's wrong with MTV? I make that statement as I'm looking to see if there's another Rob & Big marathon on. Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some show "Engaged and Underage". Great!! More news about that Texas polygamist colony



nickdawg the harmony will never become obsolete.


And TiVo will not either. First they already have a box that the cable company is working on with TiVo so it will work with SDV, and second even if they didn't the channels I watch will not be on SDV.


What's wrong with MTV? What's right with it? You must be much younger then me if you can enjoy that channel. I liked it back in the days when it did what it was suppose to do which was show videos. But now I don't listen to a whole lot of new music anyway and even if they did have videos I probably wouldn't watch it.


I'll let you make a counter remark because it's only fair since I kind of started again but to keep peace in the family I won't respond. So now is your chance to really get me if you want.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13907890
> 
> 
> Yup, and this is where the antenna type/size/location will make a big difference. My outdoor antenna would certainly be on the small size (22" dish shaped). I grew in Russell Twp. so I know the hurdles necessary to get decent OTA reception out there!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt my current small'ish antenna would pick up very much out that way.
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT (25-1) is listed as around 4.5 miles from me, and no hint of it on my tv's either. Unless you are around 1 mile or less from the WVIZ-DT transmitter you probably won't get a signal. Analog WVIZ (25) comes in fine here.



Yeah, I know that. I just included them in the list for completeness.


As for the antenna, mine is nothing special, but it is designed for all bands. It's a typical suburban outdoor TV antenna, no different than the ones that we've used in the suburbs for 30-40 years. It's the height that makes it effective here - I've got it at the very peak of my house, and there is just nothing blocking its view to the west.


Hook, have you tried getting up on your roof to see how far you can see? You must be down on Riverside Drive? Some of those houses should be tall enough for an antenna to work. And you need to aim slightly north of west, so a hill to the southwest shouldn't bother you. Just because none of your neighbors has an antenna doesn't mean that yours won't work.


I'm in a hilly and heavily wooded area, and my lot is lower than many around me. But the house is tall, and the peak gets up high enough to serve my needs.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13908720
> 
> 
> nickdawg the harmony will never become obsolete.
> 
> 
> And TiVo will not either. First they already have a box that the cable company is working on with TiVo so it will work with SDV, and second even if they didn't the channels I watch will not be on SDV.



Eventually most channels will be SDV. The HD national channels along with the digital channels. About the only thing that has to be left in the clear is local broadcast. And they're coming out with a new box. Will it be available free of charge at their local service center?


















> Quote:
> What's wrong with MTV? What's right with it? You must be much younger then me if you can enjoy that channel. I liked it back in the days when it did what it was suppose to do which was show videos. But now I don't listen to a whole lot of new music anyway and even if they did have videos I probably wouldn't watch it.



MTV does pretty much suck now. Rob & Big is about the only show that has actually got my attention in awhile. I do also watch Punkd and Pimp My Ride occasionally. But other than that, just a bunch of crap I don't watch... AND NO MUSIC ON MTV!!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13909181
> 
> 
> .........Hook, have you tried getting up on your roof to see how far you can see? You must be down on Riverside Drive? Some of those houses should be tall enough for an antenna to work. And you need to aim slightly north of west, so a hill to the southwest shouldn't bother you. Just because none of your neighbors has an antenna doesn't mean that yours won't work.
> 
> 
> I'm in a hilly and heavily wooded area, and my lot is lower than many around me. But the house is tall, and the peak gets up high enough to serve my needs.



I think Hook is trying to stay in the "budget" range, i.e. $20.


If it's truly just for his birds then I would have to agree that a medium to large roof top antenna would not be worth the time, trouble or expense.

Hook and I certainly agree on one thing: rabbit ear antennas are "for the birds".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13909181
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know that. I just included them in the list for completeness.
> 
> 
> As for the antenna, mine is nothing special, but it is designed for all bands. It's a typical suburban outdoor TV antenna, no different than the ones that we've used in the suburbs for 30-40 years. It's the height that makes it effective here - I've got it at the very peak of my house, and there is just nothing blocking its view to the west.
> 
> 
> Hook, have you tried getting up on your roof to see how far you can see? You must be down on Riverside Drive? Some of those houses should be tall enough for an antenna to work. And you need to aim slightly north of west, so a hill to the southwest shouldn't bother you. Just because none of your neighbors has an antenna doesn't mean that yours won't work.
> 
> 
> I'm in a hilly and heavily wooded area, and my lot is lower than many around me. But the house is tall, and the peak gets up high enough to serve my needs.



First let me commend you on getting my location. Actually it's on S. Riverside Drive, but you got the area correct.


And my home is a two story, not a bi level so I guess it's pretty tall specially over the bedrooms. But you got to remember-we're talking about a television for the bird. Now as much as I want him to have a nice television he really doesn't seem to care too much about what's on. Cartoons probably appeal to him and I thought about having a cable terminal ran into this area but I already have enough cable terminals.


And as far as putting anything on the roof my wife is against it. She was willing to go with a dish for direct tv but even then she wanted it on a pole in the back yard. As it turned out we couldn't get a signal no matter where we put the dish.


Now if Tyler was a human child he would be upstairs in a bedroom. Actually that's where I wanted to put him but wife over ruled me and put him in the office along with the love bird (Lovey-who is male) and our parrolette Peggy (because her parents bit her talons off of one leg).


So you guys are giving me information that would apply to a regular situation. This is a bird and if he's stuck with WEWS then that's what he's stuck with.


But thanks for all the info.....oh oh....nickdawg just replied.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13909201
> 
> 
> Eventually most channels will be SDV. The HD national channels along with the digital channels. About the only thing that has to be left in the clear is local broadcast. And they're coming out with a new box. Will it be available free of charge at their local service center?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTV does pretty much suck now. Rob & Big is about the only show that has actually got my attention in awhile. I do also watch Punkd and Pimp My Ride occasionally. But other than that, just a bunch of crap I don't watch... AND NO MUSIC ON MTV!!!



That's fine, and I understand about the SDV thing. I knew that when I bought the S3 and I hoped that by the time it got to us there would be a solution. So far it looks like I'm on track with that. But I do record mostly broadcast channels so they will not be on SDV.


Question for you. I don't quite understand the last statement. Are you complaining about no music or are you saying you don't want music?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13909296
> 
> 
> I think Hook is trying to stay in the "budget" range, i.e. $20.
> 
> 
> If it's truly just for his birds then I would have to agree that a medium to large roof top antenna would not be worth the time, trouble or expense.
> 
> Hook and I certainly agree on one thing: rabbit ear antennas are "for the birds".



That my friend is a very true statement!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13909364
> 
> 
> 
> Question for you. I don't quite understand the last statement. Are you complaining about no music or are you saying you don't want music?



No, I'm pissed there is no music on channels called Music Television and Video Hits 1(VH1). I'd like to see music videos instead of some crappy reality show.


As far as SDV, I don't think the Cleveland Time Warner system will see it anytime soon, conisdering they don't even have all the channels digital yet. Looks like there won't be any conflicts with Tivo/SDV anytime soon. Guess there is a plus to being in a market stuck in the past


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13909483
> 
> 
> No, I'm pissed there is no music on channels called Music Television and Video Hits 1(VH1). I'd like to see music videos instead of some crappy reality show.
> 
> 
> As far as SDV, I don't think the Cleveland Time Warner system will see it anytime soon, conisdering they don't even have all the channels digital yet. Looks like there won't be any conflicts with Tivo/SDV anytime soon. Guess there is a plus to being in a market stuck in the past



You are aware that there is an agreement between cable companies and TiVo to come up with a box that will allow the S3 and TiVo HD to work with SDV. The link I gave calls it a "dongle" but in fact it's going to be a small box. And it should be available soon in areas that have SDV.


And you are correct, I was banking on the fact that with the purchase of Adelphia and Comcast merger it would be a while before we will ever see SDV around here. But as you pointed out earlier it is in the diagnostic screen so while it's probably not going to happen for a while it will eventually.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, what no response?







I found an updated link . Look for yourself, it is now developed and ready to go. Interesting article too about how cablelabs and TiVo worked together on this.


Obsolete? I don't think so.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13909307
> 
> 
> First let me commend you on getting my location. Actually it's on S. Riverside Drive, but you got the area correct.
> 
> 
> And my home is a two story, not a bi level so I guess it's pretty tall specially over the bedrooms. But you got to remember-we're talking about a television for the bird.



There's really only one street down there that is in Bainbridge, but has lots that extend into Portage county. And that's yours.







(And only on the south side of the street, too.)


And if it's truly just for the bird, well frankly I can't believe that we're even discussing it. I sure don't worry about TV for my dog or cats. But I assumed that you were trying to figure out what you could pull in OTA, so I thought I'd give it my best shot.


We occasionally have the bird from my wife's classroom here at home over school breaks. But I don't worry about TV for the bird - I just let the cats entertain it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13911627
> 
> 
> There's really only one street down there that is in Bainbridge, but has lots that extend into Portage county. And that's yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (And only on the south side of the street, too.)
> 
> 
> And if it's truly just for the bird, well frankly I can't believe that we're even discussing it. I sure don't worry about TV for my dog or cats. But I assumed that you were trying to figure out what you could pull in OTA, so I thought I'd give it my best shot.
> 
> 
> We occasionally have the bird from my wife's classroom here at home over school breaks. But I don't worry about TV for the bird - I just let the cats entertain it.



Jim I didn't want the discussion to go as far as it did. I was just curious about what stations were UHF and VHF. I got the answer really on the first response and Inundated was helpfull in pointing out that WJW will be going to VHF and WKYC will be going to UHF.


As far as letting the cats entertain the birds, you should see the size of some of my birds and a couple of the cats have been bit. They don't want any part of the birds. They do eyeball the smaller ones of course but it's kind of funny if one happens to get out and land on the floor I've got the cats trained well enough that they know a beating may follow so they all run.


When they are outside however, they are well aware that the bird rule is not in effect.


Notice to any potential theiives: I've got an alarm system and it doesn't work off a phone line. And if you try and take either my cockatoo or my macaw you will be going to the hospital. Trust me.


That's not meant for the regulars in here because I know you are all upstanding honest people. I hope.










And then there is nickdawg........


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13913779
> 
> 
> As far as letting the cats entertain the birds, you should see the size of some of my birds and a couple of the cats have been bit. They don't want any part of the birds. They do eyeball the smaller ones of course but it's kind of funny if one happens to get out and land on the floor I've got the cats trained well enough that they know a beating may follow so they all run.
> 
> 
> When they are outside however, they are well aware that the bird rule is not in effect.



We keep all of our birds outside. I've got feeders all over the place.


Just a minute ago I saw a flash of brown streaking across my backyard. I took a closer look and found a bard owl sitting in the tree right outside my breakfast room window. I like that - it should help to reduce the number of moles making a mess of my lawn.


Of course it may also cut down on the number of finches at the feeder back there.


----------



## jtscherne

My girlfriend is buying a new TV. She has WOW cable in North Olmsted. It looks like all the TVs she's looking at have a QAM tuner. Is there anything she needs to discuss with the cable company in advance to take advantage of the QAM tuner? Anyone know what's in the clear on WOW?


Also, how would she connect the cable for the tuner? Sorry for the simple questions, but I haven't dealt with QAM before.


Thanks!


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13914752
> 
> 
> My girlfriend is buying a new TV. She has WOW cable in North Olmsted. It looks like all the TVs she's looking at have a QAM tuner. Is there anything she needs to discuss with the cable company in advance to take advantage of the QAM tuner? Anyone know what's in the clear on WOW?
> 
> 
> Also, how would she connect the cable for the tuner? Sorry for the simple questions, but I haven't dealt with QAM before.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Contrary to most other issues, WOW customer service has not been very knowledgeable and/or helpful regarding QAM. You could try to call, but wouldn't expect much help.


Just connect the cable directly to the TV like you would for regular cable, scan for channels and you get what you get. Results may vary between TVs for stations you will be able to receive as well as if the channel numbers shown correspond with the 3-digit channel numbers published by WOW or they are in 000-000 format with the last 3 digits being the WOW channel number.


I get the following "useful" stations:


110 Weather Now

130 Weather Plus

200 WEWS - ABC

201 WOIO - CBS

202 WJW - Fox

203 WKYC - NBC

204 WUAB - My43 (shows as 103-204 on one of two QAM TVs)

500-546? Music Choice (only comes in on one of two QAM TVs)


I also get the following "useless" stations:

103-140 Tube TV - "no longer in service" message 24/7

399 PPV Barker


Hope this helps.


----------



## jtscherne

Helps 100%. Thanks!!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13914752
> 
> 
> My girlfriend is buying a new TV. She has WOW cable in North Olmsted. It looks like all the TVs she's looking at have a QAM tuner. Is there anything she needs to discuss with the cable company in advance to take advantage of the QAM tuner? Anyone know what's in the clear on WOW?
> 
> 
> Also, how would she connect the cable for the tuner? Sorry for the simple questions, but I haven't dealt with QAM before.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Connection should be the simple RF/coax (RG6/RG59) cable feed.

I use WOW in Strongsville so I'd guess my lineup is the same as N.O.


My WOW Clear QAM:

200 ABC HD (5)

201 CBS HD (19)

202 FOX HD (8)

203 NBC HD (3)

204 UAB HD (43)


110 WTHRN (ch 43 weather sub-channel)

130 Weather Plus (ch 3 or ch 19 weather sub-channel)


501 through 537 = Digital Music Channels


And that's about it, last time I checked.

Note: No WBNX HD (55) nor WVIZ HD (25)


There are usually a couple of home shopping ch's & PPV's also, should she care.










EDIT: ooops, I see ajstan beat me to it.







He plays with WOW Clear QAM much more than I, so I'd stick with his lineup.


----------



## G3VIZIO

I attached the output coax on the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR to my VCR and get a garbled single. One channel had a clear picture and no sound. Anyone know why this is happening? Is there a setup for the coax output?


Thanks


PS... Time Warner showed up when they said they would to install this thing, however, they did have the order wrong as to what I was supposed to get vs. what I asked to get.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13916327
> 
> 
> I attached the output coax on the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR to my VCR and get a garbled single. One channel had a clear picture and no sound. Anyone know why this is happening? Is there a setup for the coax output?



Don't know why it happens but that happened to me. And sometimes when I was loading something on to a DVD it would show the picture of the recording but play the sound of whatever the tuner was on.


Actually I do know the reason it happens but if I told you certain people would get upset with me.







But do the letters POS mean anything to you?


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13891378
> 
> 
> Is anyone receiving WBNX-HD via QAM on TW in the North Canton area.
> 
> TIA



No. I've been scanning and re-scanning for weeks now with my QAM tuner and haven't found it. This is particularly bad form for TWC as they recently removed Fox News, TBS and Versus from their QAM line-up. The least they could do is give us WBNX-HD in return which I believe they cannot legally scramble anyway.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/13916544
> 
> 
> No. I've been scanning and re-scanning for weeks now with my QAM tuner and haven't found it. This is particularly bad form for TWC as they recently removed Fox News, TBS and Versus from their QAM line-up. The least they could do is give us WBNX-HD in return which I believe they cannot legally scramble anyway.



Right, exactly. I don't know why they are not giving us WBNX. Yes, they did take away those other channels too, then 2 days ago, they also took away Sprout. My 2 sons love that channel, and I know that it was kind-of a "bonus" if you will, but that is complete BS to have that channel on for 2 months and then just take it away







. I mean it's PBS channel for kids for pete sake.


I wonder if this would warrant an e-mail to Steve Fry. I don't think any other way would get any real response. In fact, I told my brother that if you called TW, that they probably wouldn't even know what QAM was because their CSRs are so stupid. He called to prove me wrong and the CSR said...

"QAM. I've heard of that. Doesn't it have something to do with Pay-per-view?"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13916818
> 
> 
> Right, exactly. I don't know why they are not giving us WBNX. Yes, they did take away those other channels too, then 2 days ago, they also took away Sprout. My 2 sons love that channel, and I know that it was kind-of a "bonus" if you will, but that is complete BS to have that channel on for 2 months and then just take it away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I mean it's PBS channel for kids for pete sake.
> 
> 
> I wonder if this would warrant an e-mail to Steve Fry. I don't think any other way would get any real response. In fact, I told my brother that if you called TW, that they probably wouldn't even know what QAM was because their CSRs are so stupid. He called to prove me wrong and the CSR said...
> 
> "QAM. I've heard of that. Doesn't it have something to do with Pay-per-view?"



Listen young man. You will get you're HD line up when TW get's darn good and ready to give it to you.


And quit confusing those poor CSR's with questions words like QAM or "fair" or asking for dates when installs will be done.


----------



## Smarty-pants












Feb. of '09 I suppose


----------



## Inundated

Just a slight correction for future reference on this thread:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13915258
> 
> 
> 110 WTHRN (ch 43 weather sub-channel)
> 
> 130 Weather Plus (ch 3 or ch 19 weather sub-channel)



"WTHRN" is presumably WOIO's weather subchannel, "WeatherNow". It shows up on WOIO-DT 19.2.


"Weather Plus" is "NBC Weather Plus", and it's WKYC's (3.2 on WKYC-DT).


43 only has the useless "We no longer have the Tube, it's not our fault" slide on WUAB-DT 43.2.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13916947
> 
> 
> Just a slight correction for future reference on this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "WTHRN" is presumably WOIO's weather subchannel, "WeatherNow". It shows up on WOIO-DT 19.2.
> 
> 
> "Weather Plus" is "NBC Weather Plus", and it's WKYC's (3.2 on WKYC-DT).
> 
> 
> 43 only has the useless "We no longer have the Tube, it's not our fault" slide on WUAB-DT 43.2.



Can you tell I use QAM infrequently???










And I never have need of the completely unnecessary weather sub-channel crap.


Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13916465
> 
> 
> Don't know why it happens but that happened to me. And sometimes when I was loading something on to a DVD it would show the picture of the recording but play the sound of whatever the tuner was on.
> 
> 
> Actually I do know the reason it happens but if I told you certain people would get upset with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But do the letters POS mean anything to you?



Is is a very agricultural looking unit...I have to agree with you there. The good news is I can use it to heat my entire house next winter. The cable guy put my Wii on top of it..I nearly required oven mits to take it off. In fact I removed the shelf above it to allow for better cooling of the unit and heating of the house. Do you think the box has an effect of the color on the set? I think the colors were a lot truer before I hooked up the box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13917353
> 
> 
> Is is a very agricultural looking unit...I have to agree with you there. The good news is I can use it to heat my entire house next winter. The cable guy put my Wii on top of it..I nearly required oven mits to take it off. In fact I removed the shelf above it to allow for better cooling of the unit and heating of the house. Do you think the box has an effect of the color on the set? I think the colors were a lot truer before I hooked up the box.



Now that I have to admit I've never heard of. As far as I can remember the box was never too hot.


Overall as far as pq goes, the SA 8300 wasn't bad outside of the constant framentation and macroblocking that occurred usually on recordings. If I was watching somethng "live" I think it was ok.


Now I don't want to get into a TiVo vs SA 8300 thing but the pq on SD channels are much better on the TiVo but then again to be fair to the SA 8300 there were no quality settings for SD channels. And I had SARA software which most people think was the worst. I can't give you a true opinion on SA 8300 any longer since they have upgraded software and I don't know what type of television you are using. Assuming since this is an HD thread I don't believe it would cause a color problem on your HD channels but it may very well affect SD channels.


Are you using Navigator, Passport, or SARA software?


And if it's truly as hot as you say have them come out and give you another.


Edit: On second thought you can always return it yourself at a local TW office for another unit.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13916327
> 
> 
> I attached the output coax on the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR to my VCR and get a garbled single. One channel had a clear picture and no sound. Anyone know why this is happening? Is there a setup for the coax output?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Sounds like something is wrong with that box. I tried the coax out and it worked OK, there wasn't any setting to change. If you need the coax, replace the box. If your VCR has composite video inputs, use those. The SA 8300 has two sets of outputs.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13916465
> 
> 
> Actually I do know the reason it happens but if I told you certain people would get upset with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But do the letters POS mean anything to you?



I just confirmed that POS is not the answer


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13917353
> 
> 
> Is is a very agricultural looking unit...I have to agree with you there. The good news is I can use it to heat my entire house next winter. The cable guy put my Wii on top of it..I nearly required oven mits to take it off. In fact I removed the shelf above it to allow for better cooling of the unit and heating of the house. Do you think the box has an effect of the color on the set? I think the colors were a lot truer before I hooked up the box.



There's something wrong with that box. It isn't supposed to be that hot. I'd definately return iit if it's overheating.


Also, when you get a new one, don't put anything on top of it. You're not supposed to block the ventilation holes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13917579
> 
> 
> Sounds like something is wrong with that box. I tried the coax out and it worked OK, there wasn't any setting to change. If you need the coax, replace the box. If your VCR has composite video inputs, use those. The SA 8300 has two sets of outputs.
> 
> 
> I just confirmed that POS is not the answer



No, you just gave your opinion. However despite what output he's using if it's as hot as what he says it is he should get another. I don't recall it being hot like that.


I used composite to my DVR. One of the things I thought was cool about the SA 8300 was the fact that you could copy something and watch something else because of the pip feature. Then I started having the no sound or current sound I was watching. So to be on the safe side I would record and just leave it on pip to make sure the sound would work.


And that is not really a knock on the SA 8300 nickdawg because TiVo doesn't let you watch anything when it does a transfer from the box to a DVD/VCR. Now doing a recording to a PC or another TiVo, that doesn't interfere with anything.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/13914026
> 
> 
> We keep all of our birds outside. I've got feeders all over the place.
> 
> 
> Just a minute ago I saw a flash of brown streaking across my backyard. I took a closer look and found a bard owl sitting in the tree right outside my breakfast room window. I like that - it should help to reduce the number of moles making a mess of my lawn.
> 
> 
> Of course it may also cut down on the number of finches at the feeder back there.



Can't let this go. That would be a BARRED owl. The one if not only N. American owl with brown eyes. Yea, I get into this stuff, sorry. Also, Hookbill, I'm well aware of exotic bird species capability to do damage to your body as well. Had a digit of mine easily ripped to the bone by a wild-caught African Grey a few years back. My wife's favorite pet. Arghhhhhh!!!

OK....back to the legitimate offerings on this forum.........


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/13921536
> 
> 
> Can't let this go. That would be a BARRED owl. The one if not only N. American owl with brown eyes. Yea, I get into this stuff, sorry. Also, Hookbill, I'm well aware of exotic bird species capability to do damage to your body as well. Had a digit of mine easily ripped to the bone by a wild-caught African Grey a few years back. My wife's favorite pet. Arghhhhhh!!!
> 
> OK....back to the legitimate offerings on this forum.........




Not quite yet. Birds are off topic, hd/digital television reception isn't. So yes, when I get into this thing with the birds I am off topic but just to let you guys know I'm not totally insane by giving my cockatoo a digital television converter please read this link my wife sent me yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.html 


Now granted African Greys are the most intelligent of all parrots (some say they have the intelligence of a 6 year old child) and the two I have are in the living room with us with HD television. They love the Dragon guy on Saturdays. Everybody shuts up when he comes on.


Burgher I know that Greys can bite hard and they are a small bird. Either my cocatoo or macaw however can take your finger off.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/13921536
> 
> 
> Can't let this go. That would be a BARRED owl.



Yup. Thanks for the correction.


Guess I should turn on the TV in the family room in hopes that he'll stick around to enjoy it.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I was unavailable on Tuesday night, so I sat down Wednesday to watch American Idol off my Motorola DVR on Armstrong Cable. About 20 minutes in, the DVR jumped to about the 40 minute mark. About 30 seconds later, it jumped to the 54 minute mark. I went back and tried it again, and the same thing happened in the same spot. I unplugged the DVR and rebooted, and it did the same thing in the same spot again.


Wednesday's recording (which I started watching while it was still recording) jumped once about 45 minutes ahead about 20 minutes into the show.


Funny thing is, I have another Motorola box upstairs (same model), and it did the exact same thing at the same spots in both shows that were separately recorded on that box.


Did anyone notice any glitches or other problems on Fox 8 HD this week during AI? Anyone else with Armstrong have any problems?


I'm thinking it had to be something with Armstrong, as both boxes had the same problem in the same spot.


Thanks.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13933411
> 
> 
> I was unavailable on Tuesday night, so I sat down Wednesday to watch American Idol off my Motorola DVR on Armstrong Cable. About 20 minutes in, the DVR jumped to about the 40 minute mark. About 30 seconds later, it jumped to the 54 minute mark. I went back and tried it again, and the same thing happened in the same spot. I unplugged the DVR and rebooted, and it did the same thing in the same spot again.
> 
> 
> Wednesday's recording (which I started watching while it was still recording) jumped once about 45 minutes ahead about 20 minutes into the show.
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, I have another Motorola box upstairs (same model), and it did the exact same thing at the same spots in both shows that were separately recorded on that box.
> 
> 
> Did anyone notice any glitches or other problems on Fox 8 HD this week during AI? Anyone else with Armstrong have any problems?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking it had to be something with Armstrong, as both boxes had the same problem in the same spot.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I think that's an MPEG discontinuity. I've seen this before, usually during local commercial breaks. It's probably a misbehaving ad splicer.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13934493
> 
> 
> I think that's an MPEG discontinuity. I've seen this before, usually during local commercial breaks. It's probably a misbehaving ad splicer.



That happened once before with FOX, shortly after an update on the SA 8300 with then Adelphia. It took a few days to fix it but it wasn't just one show. Adelphia hit the panic button and pulled the update but it was not the problem.


I don't think they got that update for at least 6 months after that.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I don't have an 8300, and it's never done it before. None of the skips happened during a commercial break; they were all right in the middle of performances. I guess I'll see if it happens again on anything else. I've kind of been itching to check out the Pace boxes...


It's a good thing, though, that I'm not an AI Nazi, as I could have been upset at missing both last episodes.


----------



## Inundated

I saw Navigator, for the first time, briefly at a local restaurant...when they were changing the channel to an Indians game on STO.


Yuck! It looks even more amateur-ish than SARA, sort of like going from Playskool to Fisher-Price in visual appearance.


I'll have limited SD experience with it here in the bedroom, as the TiVo is my primary interface. I'm just hoping it doesn't screw up the SA8000HD in the loft...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13934944
> 
> 
> I don't have an 8300, and it's never done it before. None of the skips happened during a commercial break; they were all right in the middle of performances. I guess I'll see if it happens again on anything else. I've kind of been itching to check out the Pace boxes...
> 
> 
> It's a good thing, though, that I'm not an AI Nazi, as I could have been upset at missing both last episodes.



I realized you didin't have the SA 8300. I was just pointing out that this is possible and agreeing with Cathode Kid.


Maybe it was just an Armstrong thing. Stuff happens.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13935400
> 
> 
> I saw Navigator, for the first time, briefly at a local restaurant...when they were changing the channel to an Indians game on STO.
> 
> 
> Yuck! It looks even more amateur-ish than SARA, sort of like going from Playskool to Fisher-Price in visual appearance.
> 
> 
> I'll have limited SD experience with it here in the bedroom, as the TiVo is my primary interface. I'm just hoping it doesn't screw up the SA8000HD in the loft...



You know when I had the SA 8000 I can't say I ever had any problems with it other then the fact that I was use to TiVo and the whole interface seemed like it was so inferior to TiVo. But I can honestly say I think that it did what I asked it to. The only reason I switched was I wanted the HDMI connection.


Still it's always nice to hear all these glowing reviews of Navigator. I thought a while back you said you were going to get a TiVo HD? Are you just holding out until they try to shove the navigator software on you? Maybe it won't work on the SA 8000. That will mean you will get a "Dear Mr. Inundated, are records show that you need to have your DVR upgraded. We will be contacting you soon about having someone come out to switch you to our new improved SA 8300 HDC!"


At that point it will be time to buy.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13935490
> 
> 
> Maybe it was just an Armstrong thing. Stuff happens.



Talking with a neighbor tonight, I guess Armstrong had some issues with the digital stations cutting in and out on Tuesday and Wednesday. That could explain it. Hopefully it was a limited thing, as this is seriously the first time I've ever had anything close to resembling a problem with Armstrong.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/13935714
> 
> 
> Talking with a neighbor tonight, I guess Armstrong had some issues with the digital stations cutting in and out on Tuesday and Wednesday. That could explain it. Hopefully it was a limited thing, as this is seriously the first time I've ever had anything close to resembling a problem with Armstrong.



Makes me want to try an experiment... Start a recording of some digital channel on both my TiVo and SA8300HD - let them run for a few minutes, pull the coax feed for a bit, re-connect the feed and let the recording continue, then watch the final recordings. Could provide some interesting insight into how these two platforms handle digital signal loss.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13936730
> 
> 
> Makes me want to try an experiment... Start a recording of some digital channel on both my TiVo and SA8300HD - let them run for a few minutes, pull the coax feed for a bit, re-connect the feed and let the recording continue, then watch the final recordings. Could provide some interesting insight into how these two platforms handle digital signal loss.



I would suspect that they will act the same way. You would have two seperate recordings. I know I've had times on both machines when I've had to reboot during a recording and that is what happens.


What would be interesting however is to go to the "To Do List" and click on the top link to see if there is an explanation to the partial recordings on the TiVo.


----------



## rlb

Hookbill has mentioned this in the past; but for those of you with Tivo 3 and concern for SDV, here's a good article:
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/podcast/...ital_media.php


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13935513
> 
> 
> Still it's always nice to hear all these glowing reviews of Navigator. I thought a while back you said you were going to get a TiVo HD? Are you just holding out until they try to shove the navigator software on you?



Maybe. There have been times I've thought of just sending it back entirely, and just use QAM and/or an antenna for HD. I hardly ever use the DVR part of the SA8000 anyway. Nearly everything I record and watch comes off the S2 TiVo in the bedroom.


If I had to pay $200 up front, and decide between the SA8000 and the TiVo HD, it's a no brainer. But unless they force me to pay $200 up front for an SA8300, I can just keep the status quo and not worry about it...or dump it entirely and save the $15ish a month they charge for the DVR and the HD Tier.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13942778
> 
> 
> Maybe. Nearly everything I record and watch comes off the S2 TiVo in the bedroom.
> 
> 
> If I had to pay $200 up front, and decide between the SA8000 and the TiVo HD, it's a no brainer. But unless they force me to pay $200 up front for an SA8300, I can just keep the status quo and not worry about it...or dump it entirely and save the $15ish a month they charge for the DVR and the HD Tier.



S2 doesn't record HD, SA8000 does. If you watch television live most of the time downstairs I understand. Your HDTV is connected to the SA 8000 right?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13942869
> 
> 
> S2 doesn't record HD, SA8000 does. If you watch television live most of the time downstairs I understand. Your HDTV is connected to the SA 8000 right?



You're missing my point. In the above scenario, I'd willingly give up the HD recording by getting rid of the SA8000, and then watch recorded shows in SD on the S2 in the bedroom.


If I really, really needed to record something in HD, I'd use my USB HDTV on the computer, though I'd lose the ability to both watch and record the non-OTA broadcasters in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13942965
> 
> 
> You're missing my point. In the above scenario, I'd willingly give up the HD recording by getting rid of the SA8000, and then watch recorded shows in SD on the S2 in the bedroom.
> 
> 
> If I really, really needed to record something in HD, I'd use my USB HDTV on the computer, though I'd lose the ability to both watch and record the non-OTA broadcasters in HD.



But wouldn't you be able to receive local HD channels on your USB HDTV? I assume (yes I know







) that it's hooked up to the cable from the wall and you get programs via a built in qam.


----------



## toby10

Lots of audio *pops* and *clicks* during broadcast. Does not seem to happen during commercials. Anyone else?


----------



## jtscherne

Watching via D*, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I left it on for about 5 or 6 minutes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13943574
> 
> 
> Lots of audio *pops* and *clicks* during broadcast. Does not seem to happen during commercials. Anyone else?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/13943646
> 
> 
> Watching via D*, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I left it on for about 5 or 6 minutes.



Thanks.







It's probably just the geniuses at WEWS for OTA.


----------



## hookbill

I know there isn't very many of you in the area that have a TiVo S3 and a TiVo HD. I may be the only one on this thread, but if anybody else does do you see a 5 second delay between your S3 and TiVo HD?


I'm thinking this delay probably is because the cable is upstairs for the TiVo HD and the TiVo S3 is downstairs closer to the basement.


JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!


Seriously I do have this delay and I am wondering if anyone else sees it. My real guess is that I have a HDMI to DVI hook up on my TiVo HD where my TiVo S3 is straight HDMI.


Or it could be that my S3 cost at this time about 300.00 more then the TiVo HD.


I'm also going to post this on the AVS TiVo thread but since it is a "local" game I thought I would post here. I have notice a very slight delay or no delay on other programs when I've had them on both sets at the same time.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13944180
> 
> 
> I know there isn't very many of you in the area that have a TiVo S3 and a TiVo HD. I may be the only one on this thread, but if anybody else does do you see a 5 second delay between your S3 and TiVo HD?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking this delay probably is because the cable is upstairs for the TiVo HD and the TiVo S3 is downstairs closer to the basement.
> 
> 
> JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Seriously I do have this delay and I am wondering if anyone else sees it. My real guess is that I have a HDMI to DVI hook up on my TiVo HD where my TiVo S3 is straight HDMI.
> 
> 
> Or it could be that my S3 cost at this time about 300.00 more then the TiVo HD.
> 
> 
> I'm also going to post this on the AVS TiVo thread but since it is a "local" game I thought I would post here. I have notice a very slight delay or no delay on other programs when I've had them on both sets at the same time.



Is one unit tuned to the SD version of a channel while the other is tuned to the HD equivalent, or do you notice the delay while both are watching the same channel?


The HDMI interface uses the same signal protocol as DVI with the exception of audio, so I don't think the difference is due to that.


It's possible that one of the units simply has a faster CPU than the other one.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13943180
> 
> 
> But wouldn't you be able to receive local HD channels on your USB HDTV? I assume (yes I know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) that it's hooked up to the cable from the wall and you get programs via a built in qam.



The USB HD tuner is by its nature portable, and is usually with the laptop for other reasons. The computer downstairs is nowhere near my HD set, and the laptop isn't always there.


I'm thinking two scenarios here: Upstairs with the cable directly into the LCD HD set, which has a QAM tuner built-in, and downstairs, bring out the USB HDTV unit and record either OTA or cable QAM, if needed. Upstairs would just be live, and I could put in the laptop (with a VGA cable) if I wanted to watch in full screen HDTV off of something I recorded earlier.


This may not make sense to you, but it's what I'm dealing with.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13945465
> 
> 
> Is one unit tuned to the SD version of a channel while the other is tuned to the HD equivalent, or do you notice the delay while both are watching the same channel?
> 
> 
> The HDMI interface uses the same signal protocol as DVI with the exception of audio, so I don't think the difference is due to that.
> 
> 
> It's possible that one of the units simply has a faster CPU than the other one.



No they were both on HD. What made it strange was that there was such a big difference.


Sometimes it's kind of hard to tell if there is any difference but this was noticeable, just kind of like you said, you would have thought one was on SD and the other HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/13945895
> 
> 
> The USB HD tuner is by its nature portable, and is usually with the laptop for other reasons. The computer downstairs is nowhere near my HD set, and the laptop isn't always there.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking two scenarios here: Upstairs with the cable directly into the LCD HD set, which has a QAM tuner built-in, and downstairs, bring out the USB HDTV unit and record either OTA or cable QAM, if needed. Upstairs would just be live, and I could put in the laptop (with a VGA cable) if I wanted to watch in full screen HDTV off of something I recorded earlier.
> 
> 
> This may not make sense to you, but it's what I'm dealing with.



No, I understand. Sounds like a plan to me.


----------



## MediaObsessions

Hey all. Thought you might find all this interesting:

Massillon Cable Story 


It's about how Massillon Cable is taking the plunge to eliminate their analog channel bandwidth hogs. Some people have all the luck.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13944180
> 
> 
> I know there isn't very many of you in the area that have a TiVo S3 and a TiVo HD. I may be the only one on this thread, but if anybody else does do you see a 5 second delay between your S3 and TiVo HD?
> 
> 
> I'm thinking this delay probably is because the cable is upstairs for the TiVo HD and the TiVo S3 is downstairs closer to the basement.
> 
> 
> JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!



For a split second there, I thought "this guy has street cred???"











> Quote:
> Seriously I do have this delay and I am wondering if anyone else sees it. My real guess is that I have a HDMI to DVI hook up on my TiVo HD where my TiVo S3 is straight HDMI.
> 
> 
> Or it could be that my S3 cost at this time about 300.00 more then the TiVo HD.
> 
> 
> I'm also going to post this on the AVS TiVo thread but since it is a "local" game I thought I would post here. I have notice a very slight delay or no delay on other programs when I've had them on both sets at the same time.



I've seen this effect on all sorts of digital receivers - TiVo, SA8300, pcHDTV cards, XM and Sirius tuners, etc. I'm sure a chunk of it has to do with when the signal is tuned in and the floating compression rate at that time. When the compression rate is high (such as on a mostly black screen), the decoder can lock in faster than if the signal is tuned in when a lot of fast action is going on. Add in other variables, such as bus contention or hard drive activity, and the delay gets amplified.


For a while, I had two (absolutely) identical MythTV boxes sitting here with pcHDTV cards. If you tuned them both to the same channel, one was usually slightly delayed compared the other, but you were never sure which one would be "first".


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/13946437
> 
> 
> Hey all. Thought you might find all this interesting:
> 
> Massillon Cable Story
> 
> 
> It's about how Massillon Cable is taking the plunge to eliminate their analog channel bandwidth hogs. Some people have all the luck.



It will be interesting to see if they can pull this off by Feb 17. I've been toying with ordering service from Massillon Cable for my business down there (the antenna on the roof just doesn't cut it.) Time to make some phone calls.


----------



## Smarty-pants

What "business" would that be?... if you don't miond me asking... and if you don't mind posting it here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13947045
> 
> 
> What "business" would that be?... if you don't miond me asking... and if you don't mind posting it here.



Probably none of yours.










Sorry, but you of all people should have known better.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13949079
> 
> 
> Probably none of yours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but you of all people should have known better.










You cut me deep Hook... real deep man.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13949119
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cut me deep Hook... real deep man.



When you leave yourself wide open like that and your handle is Smarty-pants.....It's just something I couldn't pass up.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13944180
> 
> 
> ...........Seriously I do have this delay and I am wondering if anyone else sees it. My real guess is that I have a HDMI to DVI hook up on my TiVo HD where my TiVo S3 is straight HDMI.....



You should have more time on your hands to track down this delay now that American Idol is over.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13950060
> 
> 
> You should have more time on your hands to track down this delay now that American Idol is over.



Now I know there is a joke in there somewhere, at least I hope so.


I'm sure I've expressed my feelings about that show once or twice around here.







But I have to admit that I was happy to see a Rock person win it for a change.


Since Fox 8 News in the morning is primarily American Idol review there wasn't too much I didn't know about the show without watching it. I even sent them a "FOX UNPLUGGED" message which they read on the air. I said something like "I'm glad Cook won. Now please cancel the show."


Wayne Dawson said "Ouch, that was harsh."


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook is just mad because when he tried out, Simon told him that he'd rather listen to a howling dog scratch his way out of a chalkboard box than listen to him.


----------



## nickdawg

Damn, I whis I coulda seen hook's message read on TV. But I don't watch FOX news. Especially now that Sissy is on.







I'd take the howling dog in the chalkboard box over her talking about her kids. What is she, Kathie Lee? Talking about her kid, I swear his name is Rice or something. She has two, Rice and Beans!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13947045
> 
> 
> What "business" would that be?... if you don't miond me asking... and if you don't mind posting it here.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13949079
> 
> 
> Probably none of yours.



Hehe... Web design/hosting, dialup ISP (there still is a market for that), computer repair, and more. The "more" part is pretty open-ended - we've done phone systems, bowling alley score-keeping systems, designed custom point-of-sale software, and completely rebuilt one of those claw-type skill cranes down to designing a new brain for it. (That was an interesting project.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13951498
> 
> 
> Damn, I whis I coulda seen hook's message read on TV. But I don't watch FOX news. Especially now that Sissy is on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd take the howling dog in the chalkboard box over her talking about her kids. What is she, Kathie Lee? Talking about her kid, I swear his name is Rice or something. She has two, Rice and Beans!



I would say that I've probably had at least 6 of my emails read, maybe more. The clue is my location. If he says Bainbridge, it's probably me.


Sissy = Tracy or Stacy? I assume it's Tracy. I thought when they rehired Stacy that it would be a matter of time before Tracy left but no such luck (yet).


And not that I have any room to talk but Tracy is having a bit of a problem dropping that weight. Stacy hs to be at least 10 years older and has better looking legs.


The only reason I watch FOX 8 is it's a local "news" show and WEWS and WKYC has gone to their network shows a 8:00 am. And I think you all know why we don't watch WOIO. Not only do you have Action News but don't you get Connie Chung as well later?


----------



## hookbill

About 1 or 2 months ago they had a story about how the worst duet ever made was Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder doing, "Ebony and Ivory," so that was the topic that morning.


I responded with (to the best of my memory) "Ebony and Ivory was a great song, however Paul McCartney was involved in the worst duet ever made: "Stay, Stay Stay" with Michael Jackson.


Wayne Dawson said, "He's right about that."







and one of the women said something about the video being strange.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13953140
> 
> 
> I would say that I've probably had at least 6 of my emails read, maybe more. The clue is my location. If he says Bainbridge, it's probably me.
> 
> 
> Sissy = Tracy or Stacy? I assume it's Tracy. I thought when they rehired Stacy that it would be a matter of time before Tracy left but no such luck (yet).



Sissy is Stephanie Shaffer. The obnoxious, bimb, former employerr re-hired last year after her national show went bust. Just like another hemmorrhoid, Robin. C'mon, how many of our jobs would take us back after leaving for bigger, better things and failing at them?










I do like Tracy and Wayne. They are good on-air. The other person I couldn't stand is Andre. But now he's in the evening, so FOX is tolerable as long as Shaffer is off.



> Quote:
> The only reason I watch FOX 8 is it's a local "news" show and WEWS and WKYC has gone to their network shows a 8:00 am. And I think you all know why we don't watch WOIO. Not only do you have Action News but don't you get Connie Chung as well later?



I watch the Early Show. I cannot stand Today since Katie left. Meredith is AWFUL plus the animated Today bug complete with scrolling nbc.com text gets on my nerves. For local news I like 5's GMC or 19 Action News(yes, I watch them). 19's Tiffany Tucker and 5's Kimberly Gill are smokin'

















The Asian on CBS is Julie Chen. I really wish they would dump her. I'm sorry but once you host a ridiculous reality show, your credibility as a journalist is gone. Chen also hosts Big Brother. No chance of her going anywhere, since she is Moonves' wife.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13953172
> 
> 
> ......I responded with (to the best of my memory) "Ebony and Ivory was a great song, however Paul McCartney was involved in the worst duet ever made: "Stay, Stay Stay" with Michael Jackson........



No, Paul McCartney's worst "duet" ever was Heather Mills!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13953231
> 
> 
> No, Paul McCartney's worst "duet" ever was Heather Mills!



Yep, that was a bad one as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13953213
> 
> 
> Sissy is Stephanie Shaffer.



Yeah, Stephanie. Well she doesn't bother me Tracy does. I liked Andrea. And I like Melissa even better.










Stacy is the brunette that subs every once in a while. I like her for whatever reason she floats my boat....but I always prefer brunettes to blondes.


Wayne cracks me up because he sometimes tries to figure out who sings certain songs that he obviously never really grew up with. Face it, he's a rhythym and blues/soul person and he wouldn't recognize Twisted Sister if they were standing right next to him.


And he agreed with me about the McCartney/Jackson duet. That was cool.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13952180
> 
> 
> Hehe... Web design/hosting, dialup ISP (there still is a market for that), computer repair, and more. The "more" part is pretty open-ended - we've done phone systems, bowling alley score-keeping systems, designed custom point-of-sale software, and completely rebuilt one of those claw-type skill cranes down to designing a new brain for it. (That was an interesting project.)



mknowlin, it sounds like you have a fun job.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13958411
> 
> 
> mknowlin, it sounds like you have a fun job.



It's more of a side project we've been doing for several years - my main job (the one that makes the house payment) is in IT management for a medical company. Someday the two roles may switch places, but it hasn't happened yet...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13959863
> 
> 
> It's more of a side project we've been doing for several years - my main job (the one that makes the house payment) is in IT management for a medical company. Someday the two roles may switch places, but it hasn't happened yet...



My wife is an IT manager at a major cosmetics company. Does she spend her time doing something constructive and interesting like what you do? No. She spends all her time in her "second life" desigining buildings and crap that doesn't make money.


I just made a comment about what you did to her. I got a dirty look. Thanks dude, you got me in trouble.


----------



## Lighting Guy

So I just spent the last week reading about 10 pages or so from the last month and a half when I didn't check this thread, I'm back now.


Sorry I missed all the banter back and forth about the re-alignments, some of it was amusing. I'll throw in my 2 cents now though. I'm in old adelphia (er, cleveland suburbs 2, I dunno), using only QAM. I picked up a new LCD TV a few weeks ago, and after a rescan, found a few new channels. WBNX-DT, STO-HD (at least when there's a game, haven't check it when there wasn't) and TBS-HD. In addition to the locals in HD, I'm still getting TNT-HD and DSC-HD, so I'm happy about the added bonuses







.


Hell, I think I'm only missing a couple HD channels that you guys with STB's are getting, and I don't care about those channels.


----------



## Lighting Guy

An interesting story to some people maybe.


Agreement may mean end of cable set-top boxes
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/...2pWLKi14Ws0NUE


----------



## Smarty-pants

Must be nice for you LG. Down here in Canton, they are eliminating the all the QAM bonus channels. I think we are now down to FamilyLand(religous:rolleyes), ARTS, E!, WIVM, and all the locals but NO WBNX. Maybe Uverse is in my future after all.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13963847
> 
> 
> Must be nice for you LG. Down here in Canton, they are eliminating the all the QAM bonus channels. I think we are now down to FamilyLand(religous:rolleyes), ARTS, E!, WIVM, and all the locals but NO WBNX. Maybe Uverse is in my future after all.



You get E! in HD via QAM? (Not that I want that channel, just a "bonus" I haven't heard of with QAM.)


----------



## Smarty-pants

Nope, SD. NO stations in HD other than the locals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/13963819
> 
> 
> An interesting story to some people maybe.
> 
> 
> Agreement may mean end of cable set-top boxes
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/...2pWLKi14Ws0NUE



I know I'm not the brightest bulb in the closet but what exactly did that story say? Here's what I got: Sony agreed to a technology that will deliver two way communications that is better then what the cable companies are using today and will start using it in THEIR televisions.


Well, I'm all in favor of a better way of doing this then the current cable company method but it will still require a cable card and supposedly it will work with TiVo. I wonder if TiVo is aware of this?


Then it ends with the FCC saying "no comment." Also no mention about what CableLabs will have to say.


I think if this really happens it won't happen for quite some time. First Cisco (SA) has been the one who has been designing these boxes for SDV and I have a feeling that they have the binding agreement at this time. Now maybe that expires in a year or two, I don't know but I can't see them just allowing SONY, who has NO experience with cable come marching into their area.


I looked back to see the source of this information and it's AP which I consider a good source but I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/13963819
> 
> 
> An interesting story to some people maybe.
> 
> 
> Agreement may mean end of cable set-top boxes
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/...2pWLKi14Ws0NUE



Sounds like alot more bulls*** that's going to make our lives even worse. Cable TV has been fine for the last 20-30 years. Then along comes these "digital cable ready" devices. OK. But the worst thing ever done was the FCC requiring that the equipment cable distributes use the same cable card technology. What we have as a result is buggy settop boxes(can anyone say the 8300HDC?)


And the key word there is "choice". Choice, choice, choice. I HATE that word!!! Too many choices is a bad thing. It's almost like the phone company. Everybody used to have those big old, black phones. I have one in my basement that is probably older than I am and it still works perfectly. I cannot say the same about the newer ones I bought at a Big Box electronic store.


And the same thing is going to happen to TV. Right now my SA8300HD works perfectly. You'd have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. If settop boxes become regular consumer electronics, just wait until those cheap brands you see at Target, Walmart or Best Buy begin making STBs. Like Visio or Insignia, two that come to mind. Just keep everything the way it is now, stop screwing up my TV.


If cable wants a project to keep them busy, work on installing SDV here in Akron!
















--------------------------------------

What exactly is a better way, hook?: Elaborate for us. I can't think of anything better than how it is now. You subscribe to cable. They install a cable box on your TV. That's the way it's always been and it seems to work.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/13963819
> 
> 
> An interesting story to some people maybe.
> 
> 
> Agreement may mean end of cable set-top boxes
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/...2pWLKi14Ws0NUE



The gist of this is what the CE manufacturers have been promising to do for awhile: put an upstream modulator in their sets. Samsung was the first manufacturer to claim a two-way capable set, and supposedly it was shown in a lab somewhere last year, but I never actually saw one in the field. It looks like the other manufacturers are starting to catch up (and maybe pass up) Samsung.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13965730
> 
> 
> Sounds like alot more bulls*** that's going to make our lives even worse. Cable TV has been fine for the last 20-30 years. Then along comes these "digital cable ready" devices. OK. But the worst thing ever done was the FCC requiring that the equipment cable distributes use the same cable card technology. What we have as a result is buggy settop boxes(can anyone say the 8300HDC?)



Brought to you by those fine folks at Cisco (Scientific Atlanta).











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13965730
> 
> 
> And the key word there is "choice". Choice, choice, choice. I HATE that word!!! Too many choices is a bad thing. It's almost like the phone company. Everybody used to have those big old, black phones. I have one in my basement that is probably older than I am and it still works perfectly. I cannot say the same about the newer ones I bought at a Big Box electronic store.



Yes, choice is bad. Creates competition, improved quality. By all means lets avoid that!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13965730
> 
> 
> And the same thing is going to happen to TV. *Right now my SA8300HD works perfectly*. You'd have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. If settop boxes become regular consumer electronics, just wait until those cheap brands you see at Target, Walmart or Best Buy begin making STBs. Like Visio or Insignia, two that come to mind. Just keep everything the way it is now, stop screwing up my TV.



Funny. I never had an SA 8300 that worked worth a damn. I think I would put it in the same catagory of Insignia or Visio. For further information, read my signature.












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13965730
> 
> 
> If cable wants a project to keep them busy, work on installing SDV here in Akron!



Well if it works so darn well why would 4 major cable companies be looking for an alternative?

--------------------------------------


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13965730
> 
> 
> What exactly is a better way, hook?: Elaborate for us. I can't think of anything better than how it is now. You subscribe to cable. They install a cable box on your TV. That's the way it's always been and it seems to work.



nickdawg, SA/Cisco are blowing it out their respected butts with their machines. Face it, the SA 83000 HDC is a pos and everybody knows it. Poorly designed from the beginning and now trying to take a hunk of garbage and throw new software in it that it wasn't desingned for creates that age old problem: garbage in, garbage out.


The problem is that with so many cable companies working with different equipment even though the name is the same you are going to have issues trying to design a box that will work with cable cards everywhere. This goes for TiVo as well. Motorola boxes and the M cards seem to give Comcrap customers fits but work well in SA boxes on TW. I personally would welcome a change in technology where "one size fits all" but I don't see where Sony is going to be the one who delivers it. Perhaps Cathode Kid understands it. This upstream modulator he's talking about.


You know as well as I do that Navigator software is crap. I think the cable companies are aware of that too and now want to come up with an alternative solution. I don't think it means the end of SDV, just a different way of doing it.


I can see the headlines now, in the Akron Beacon Journal:


MAN KILLED BY POLICE FOR REFUSING TO GIVE UP CABLE BOX:


AKRON:


It was there on the internet. nickdawg said the only way he would give up his SA 8300 was if they pryed it from his cold dead hands.


Police were called when Time Warner representatives showed up at nickdawgs house. Although nickdawg was unarmed he refused to let TW technicians take his precious SA 8300. Tazor guns were used in the attempt to remove the DVR from this man who cared so much for his machine but police were unaware that the box was still plugged in. This caused the SA 8300 to blow all of it's cheap hardware circuits and as a result nickdawg was killed.


The officers who used the Tazors are assigned desk duty while Internal Affairs investigates this matter.


In interviews with his fellow forum members, one known as "hookbill" said, "I always warned him that thing was trouble, but he just loved it. I'm really going to miss his comments on the boards."


----------



## pbarach

MSN Money released a list of the 10 worst customer service companies. AOL tops the list, but notice the ratings for some of our favorite







cable providers:

*MSN's "Customer Service Hall Of Shame"*

1. AOL

2. Comcast

3. Sprint

4. Abercrombie & Fitch

5. Qwest

6. Capital One

7. Bank Of America

8. Time Warner Cable

9. HSBC Finance

10. Cox Communications



Go here to read the full article and the responses from many of the "winners": http://*******.com/5yzvs5


----------



## Smarty-pants

LMAO Hook, LMAO


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13966780
> 
> 
> MSN Money released a list of the 10 worst customer service companies. AOL tops the list, but notice the ratings for some of our favorite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cable providers:
> 
> *MSN's "Customer Service Hall Of Shame"*
> 
> 1. AOL
> 
> 2. Comcast
> 
> 3. Sprint
> 
> 4. Abercrombie & Fitch
> 
> 5. Qwest
> 
> 6. Capital One
> 
> 7. Bank Of America
> 
> 8. Time Warner Cable
> 
> 9. HSBC Finance
> 
> 10. Cox Communications
> 
> 
> 
> Go here to read the full article and the responses from many of the "winners": http://*******.com/5yzvs5



I'm surprised TWC is so low on that list. Clearly they didn't poll the Cleveland area. Abercrombie and Fitch? Do people need to call and say their clothes don't fit?


The link doesn't work, its all "*"


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ya, the A&F listing is peculiar. Maybe they're refering to the "in store" customer service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/13966780
> 
> 
> MSN Money released a list of the 10 worst customer service companies. AOL tops the list, but notice the ratings for some of our favorite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cable providers:
> 
> *MSN's "Customer Service Hall Of Shame"*
> 
> 1. AOL
> 
> 2. Comcast
> 
> 3. Sprint
> 
> 4. Abercrombie & Fitch
> 
> 5. Qwest
> 
> 6. Capital One
> 
> 7. Bank Of America
> 
> 8. Time Warner Cable
> 
> 9. HSBC Finance
> 
> 10. Cox Communications
> 
> 
> 
> Go here to read the full article and the responses from many of the "winners": http://*******.com/5yzvs5



Oh, please get me a link for this. I'd love to bring this it the office.


My supervisor used to work for TW and he thinks they are "examples of Great Customer Service." I always tell him that if he thinks we are not doing better then TW he needs to bump his meds up.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13968028
> 
> 
> Oh, please get me a link for this. I'd love to bring this it the office.
> 
> 
> My supervisor used to work for TW and he thinks they are "examples of Great Customer Service." I always tell him that if he thinks we are not doing better then TW he needs to bump his meds up.



Here's the link:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...llOfShame.aspx


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13967469
> 
> 
> Ya, the A&F listing is peculiar. Maybe they're refering to the "in store" customer service.



The last time I walked past an Abercrombie & Fitch store, they had the music blaring so loud, I doubt a customer could hold a conversation with one of the salespeople in the store. I suppose that's part of their "hip" sales strategy to keep anyone older than 25 from shopping there.


----------



## paule123

AT&T has introduced U-Verse for Small Business:

http://smallbiz.att.com/businessuverse 

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=25692 


This is data only, no TV.


FWIW, I called them to check on a couple office locations here in the Cleveland area and neither of them had service available yet. $100 for a 10M/1.5M connection for a business would be a helluva deal.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

how the heck is DirecTV not on that list?


I used to have Cox Cable and they had great customer service. DirecTV on the other hand took my money and started treating me like scum.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/13969763
> 
> 
> how the heck is DirecTV not on that list?
> 
> 
> I used to have Cox Cable and they had great customer service. DirecTV on the other hand took my money and started treating me like scum.



All cable companies treat you like scum. I haven't met a single one I liked.


----------



## jtscherne

This can probably be revised to just assume that MOST companies will not treat you well.


Here's one of my favorite sites:

http://www.consumerist.com 


Lots of useful information and interesting stories.


I had a problem with an order with Sirius Satellite and used some techniques suggested on the site and had a great deal of success.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13971610
> 
> 
> All cable companies treat you like scum. I haven't met a single one I liked.


----------



## smoti17




hookbill said:


> Brought to you by those fine folks at Cisco (Scientific Atlanta).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nickdawg, SA/Cisco are blowing it out their respected butts with their machines. Face it, the SA 83000 HDC is a pos and everybody knows it. Poorly designed from the beginning and now trying to take a hunk of garbage and throw new software in it that it wasn't desingned for creates that age old problem: garbage in, garbage out.
> 
> 
> The problem is that with so many cable companies working with different equipment even though the name is the same you are going to have issues trying to design a box that will work with cable cards everywhere. This goes for TiVo as well. Motorola boxes and the M cards seem to give Comcrap customers fits but work well in SA boxes on TW.
> 
> 
> -----------
> 
> 
> Well, after more than a month of running it clear that my TiVo Series 3 is just a more flaky and less stable experience than my Series 1 and 2, and the primary cause of this is DRM technologies - i.e. cablecard, HDCP and the wonderful CCI-byte
> 
> 
> If you are stuck with DRM, the issue is not that cablecards and the choice and equipment ownership they allow are a bad idea in principle. CAMs are a very similar technology widely used in DVB satellite receivers in Europe which have been working just fine for over a decade - nothing like the issues with cablecards. And you can buy and own them yourself. The root causes of the problem are bad standards definition, poor implementation, lack of deployment commitment, and weak regulation, for which the blame lies firmly with the box vendors, CableLabs, the Cable Cos and the FCC.


----------



## hookbill




smoti17 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13966676
> 
> 
> The problem is that with so many cable companies working with different equipment even though the name is the same you are going to have issues trying to design a box that will work with cable cards everywhere. This goes for TiVo as well. Motorola boxes and the M cards seem to give Comcrap customers fits but work well in SA boxes on TW.
> 
> 
> -----------
> 
> 
> Well, after more than a month of running it clear that my TiVo Series 3 is just a more flaky and less stable experience than my Series 1 and 2, and the primary cause of this is DRM technologies - i.e. cablecard, HDCP and the wonderful CCI-byte
> 
> 
> If you are stuck with DRM, the issue is not that cablecards and the choice and equipment ownership they allow are a bad idea in principle. CAMs are a very similar technology widely used in DVB satellite receivers in Europe which have been working just fine for over a decade - nothing like the issues with cablecards. And you can buy and own them yourself. The root causes of the problem are bad standards definition, poor implementation, lack of deployment commitment, and weak regulation, for which the blame lies firmly with the box vendors, CableLabs, the Cable Cos and the FCC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What problems are you having? The only one I have is the fact that they changed the CCI byte and you can't transfer digital channels from one box to the other. Other then that, both my S3 and TiVo HD work just fine and that is not TiVo's fault, that's Time Warners decision to put the 0X02 code on the CCI byte on the digital channels.
> 
> 
> Well, at least you're generous in spreading the blame. You didn't leave anyone out.
Click to expand...


----------



## nickdawg

A BIG thumbs up to WEWS














They fixed their overscan problem. The black stripe at the bottom of the screen is gone. LOST looks great










If anyone is reading, THANKS!!


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg....I just love the new logo under your name.


And come on, give me some credit. That was a pretty good piece I did last night.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13960665
> 
> 
> I just made a comment about what you did to her. I got a dirty look. Thanks dude, you got me in trouble.



Hehe - I take no blame. You opened your mouth.... After years of marriage, you should know better.


----------



## ClevelandFan

Does anyone know if TWC has started using SDV in Northeast Ohio. I am in a former Comcast area and have noticed that some of the VOD movies that I request don't show up on the clear QAM channels that carry the VOD programming. I have rescanned for channels several times and nothing else shows up. Is it possible that SDV is being implemented.


Another possibility is that TWC has gotten some new technology that allows them to encrypt VOD while still being able to fast forward and rewind. I find it curious that most VOD movies show up on the clear QAM but some do not.


----------



## Smarty-pants

How the heck could VOD show up on QAM?!? Don't you need a box for that?


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandFan* /forum/post/13977247
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if TWC has started using SDV in Northeast Ohio. I am in a former Comcast area and have noticed that some of the VOD movies that I request don't show up on the clear QAM channels that carry the VOD programming. I have rescanned for channels several times and nothing else shows up. Is it possible that SDV is being implemented.
> 
> 
> Another possibility is that TWC has gotten some new technology that allows them to encrypt VOD while still being able to fast forward and rewind. I find it curious that most VOD movies show up on the clear QAM but some do not.



I highly doubt that TWC got some new technology that blocks VOD channels, but I could be wrong. Instead of encrypting more channels, they actually opened a couple more up (at least for me) with the realignment that used to be encrypted. While I haven't seen any VOD movies on QAM recently, I haven't looked, and I've even lost track of their channels numbers since I got a new tv, and they messed around with the QAM channels a few months ago.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/13977329
> 
> 
> How the heck could VOD show up on QAM?!? Don't you need a box for that?



If you have a QAM tuner, and someone close to you (I don't know what the proximity is, the same apartment building, the same main feed to a neighborhood or what) orders VOD, you can watch it with them if you can find the channel. Obviously you are at the mercy of their remote control though.


It sounds like Clevelandfan you actually order the movies yourself, but don't have a STB, is that correct? Assuming our QAM channels are the same now with the realignment, what are (or were if they are really gone) the VOD channels?


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/13977489
> 
> 
> I highly doubt that TWC got some new technology that blocks VOD channels, but I could be wrong. Instead of encrypting more channels, they actually opened a couple more up (at least for me) with the realignment that used to be encrypted. While I haven't seen any VOD movies on QAM recently, I haven't looked, and I've even lost track of their channels numbers since I got a new tv, and they messed around with the QAM channels a few months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a QAM tuner, and someone close to you (I don't know what the proximity is, the same apartment building, the same main feed to a neighborhood or what) orders VOD, you can watch it with them if you can find the channel. Obviously you are at the mercy of their remote control though.
> 
> 
> It sounds like Clevelandfan you actually order the movies yourself, but don't have a STB, is that correct? Assuming our QAM channels are the same now with the realignment, what are (or were if they are really gone) the VOD channels?



This happened to me as well in University Heights...I watched several movies with my QAM tuner someone else ordered before I got the "BOX"


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/13978035
> 
> 
> This happened to me as well in University Heights...I watched several movies with my QAM tuner someone else ordered before I got the "BOX"



Oh, what I forgot to say is that I needed to be scanning my channels to find the VOD when it was active. I think once it was gone it was gone until I rescanned.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandFan* /forum/post/13977247
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if TWC has started using SDV in Northeast Ohio. I am in a former Comcast area and have noticed that some of the VOD movies that I request don't show up on the clear QAM channels that carry the VOD programming. I have rescanned for channels several times and nothing else shows up. Is it possible that SDV is being implemented.
> 
> 
> Another possibility is that TWC has gotten some new technology that allows them to encrypt VOD while still being able to fast forward and rewind. I find it curious that most VOD movies show up on the clear QAM but some do not.



I've seen other former comcast customers report the same thing. And they have a motobox.


----------



## ClevelandFan

I have one box but several TV's and a computer. I used to be able to order a VOD program from the cable box on my main TV and then watch the program on the other TV's and/or my computer via HDHR as well on the QAM channel. It used to move around from one channel/sub-channel to another. The VOD channels were 75.x, 76.x, 77.x and 78.x. Now the VOD channels (that I can find) are 82.x and 83.x. I have rescanned the channels on my TVs and on the HDHR and it seems I'm missing at least one VOD channel, unless it is encrypted and does not show up in the clear. Like I said before 80% of the time, the programming shows up on 82.x or 83.x. The other 20% it does not show up at all (even though the TV with the cable box shows the program just fine). SDV on a limited basis - working out the kinks before they roll it out more broadly?? Encryption of some VOD based on the content?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandFan* /forum/post/13978950
> 
> 
> I have one box but several TV's and a computer. I used to be able to order a VOD program from the cable box on my main TV and then watch the program on the other TV's and/or my computer via HDHR as well on the QAM channel. It used to move around from one channel/sub-channel to another. The VOD channels were 75.x, 76.x, 77.x and 78.x. Now the VOD channels (that I can find) are 82.x and 83.x. I have rescanned the channels on my TVs and on the HDHR and it seems I'm missing at least one VOD channel, unless it is encrypted and does not show up in the clear. Like I said before 80% of the time, the programming shows up on 82.x or 83.x. The other 20% it does not show up at all (even though the TV with the cable box shows the program just fine). SDV on a limited basis - working out the kinks before they roll it out more broadly?? Encryption of some VOD based on the content?



They have placed all digital channels on CCI Byte 0x02 and that might be why you can't see what you use to. It's the same problem I have moving digital channel recordings on my tow TiVo.


What really burns me about this is that they are using that setting on the HD channels that are available on analog SD. So if I record something on TNTHD TBSHD, ESPNHD AND ESPNHD2 I can't move them from one machine to the other.


And it's not like I have that much that I record on those channels so it's easy for me to accomodate them on my S3. It's just that it doesn't make sense. If you can copy freely the analog version, why not the HD versions, or at least change the CCI Byte to 0x01. That would allow only one transfer.


This is a TW decision and not a local decision. And it's legal so there is not a darn thing I can do about it. I've sent Mr. Fry 3 letters on this and got zero response, and I know it's because it's out of his hands.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13981477
> 
> 
> What really burns me about this is that they are using that setting on the HD channels that are available on analog SD.



Hollywood and the FCC have always been interested in protecting _digital_ versions of programming, even if the same programs are available in analog. The reason is simple; it's possible to make unlimited copies of a digitally-delivered program and each copy is perfect. Go through the FCC regs regarding CCI flags and you'll see the clear emphasis on protecting anything that's digital.


----------



## nickdawg

Why do you want to make unlimited digital copies of programs? Is there something we don't know, mr hookbill? A pirate? That explains all the birds

















Today it really doesn't matter. It's not worth or possible to do anything with the programming from those networks. I wouldn't even copy a movie from TNT to DVD for me to watch(Forrest Gump was on earlier). I'd rather by a clean, bug free DVD.


The networks fill their screens with so much crap, this copying issue is a moot point.


My rule of thumb: if you can copy shows with the SA8300, then it should be allowed on your box. If not, then it shouldn't be allowed. It should be the same across ALL platforms.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13981603
> 
> 
> Hollywood and the FCC have always been interested in protecting _digital_ versions of programming, even if the same programs are available in analog. The reason is simple; it's possible to make unlimited copies of a digitally-delivered program and each copy is perfect. Go through the FCC regs regarding CCI flags and you'll see the clear emphasis on protecting anything that's digital.



That is so much bull pucky I don't know where to start. First, we are talking digital programing. Now there is a difference between digital and HD, you know that as well as I do.


I don't have a problem with them protecting any of the premium channels or pay per view channels. That is understandable. But you tell me, why do channels like SOAP NET, ESPN CLASSIC, ESPN NEWS, FOX BUISNESS, TRINITY BROADCAST NETWORK, FAMILY LAND, LIFETIME MOVIES, FOX MOVIE CHANNEL, COUNTRY MUSIC CHANNEL, and I could go on for a long time but I'll stop with the big one, OHIO NEWS NETWORK need protection? There is nobody that will turn a profit from these programs in digital production, and quite honestly nobody who will turn a profit in ESPN or ESPN2 in HD.


It's absolute crap and TW knows it. I like the idea of TRINITY BROADCAST, I'm sure God doesn't want the word spread because it's only available in digital.







Heaven help somebody make a copy of something like that, as if anyone would.


They are not protecting anybody. They are limiting the rights of people who own DVR's that are capable of transfering programing. And as I said earlier all they really need to do is put it in a 0x01 code, that's transfer once only.


You really have to be a moron (not you personally Cathode Kid) to buy the notion that they are "protecting" these type of channels. Have you ever seen once on G4? Hell, these show were made in the 50's and 60's. We're talking Hee Haw here.


And I still think that if it's shown on analog and on HD then it should be copy freely. It's the same damn show and most of that are reruns of Law & Order!


"Time Waner - We think about screwing you as much as possible." That is there true slogan.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13982205
> 
> 
> Why do you want to make unlimited digital copies of programs? Is there something we don't know, mr hookbill? A pirate? That explains all the birds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Today it really doesn't matter. It's not worth or possible to do anything with the programming from those networks. I wouldn't even copy a movie from TNT to DVD for me to watch(Forrest Gump was on earlier). I'd rather by a clean, bug free DVD.
> 
> 
> The networks fill their screens with so much crap, this copying issue is a moot point.
> 
> 
> My rule of thumb: if you can copy shows with the SA8300, then it should be allowed on your box. If not, then it shouldn't be allowed. It should be the same across ALL platforms.




Well, mr nickdawg we can copy everything you can on the SA 8300. If you take the time to read what I'm talking about I'm talking about restricting the copying of digital programs from one TiVo to another. And also if you take the time to actually read what I write I say that if they do want to restrict then they can use limited restriction. Boy, you really gotta look at everything that is said.


However you and I do agree, most of those shows arn't worth copying in the first place. And that is EXACTLY my point. So why restrict them?


----------



## nickdawg

Another new thing I noticed as far as copy protection: It's now possible to record the digital music channels on the Navigator DVR. Passport used to call them "Unrecordable Channel", like there was some form of content protection to avoid DVR recording it.


I tried recording earlier an I noticed the box was moving very slow and acting buggy while recording. Almost thought it was going to reboot. When I went to play it back, the FF controls moved very slow and my recording was fukced up. I recorded an Avenged Sevenfold song that started right as I tuned to the channel. It was 19 after the hour. The recording says it started at :19, yet the content was different. It was not A7X. I don't know what it did, but this is very interesting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13982249
> 
> 
> Another new thing I noticed as far as copy protection: It's now possible to record the digital music channels on the Navigator DVR. Passport used to call them "Unrecordable Channel", like there was some form of content protection to avoid DVR recording it.
> 
> 
> I tried recording earlier an I noticed the box was moving very slow and acting buggy while recording. Almost thought it was going to reboot. When I went to play it back, the FF controls moved very slow and my recording was fukced up. I recorded an Avenged Sevenfold song that started right as I tuned to the channel. It was 19 after the hour. The recording says it started at :19, yet the content was different. It was not A7X. I don't know what it did, but this is very interesting.



One of the first things I noticed when I got my S3 a year and a half ago was I could record the digital music channels. I have no desire too, but I could do it. I don't know if I still can, I'm going to bed now and I'll check it out upstairs to see if I still can.


----------



## nickdawg

I have no clue how that works. One one hand, the Tivo follows the same encrytpion rules as the SA boxes, since the Tivo uses the cable card for conditional access like what's built in the SA box.


On the other hand, Tivo gets different guide data from a different source. Blocking recording could be something specifically written in the software that's not present on Tivo.


On Passport, certain channels like VOD were unrecordable and the DVR progress bar didn't even show up. On Navigator the bar shows up on every channel, except VOD that has it's on bar to navigate the show. Subscription channels have the progress bar as well but you cannot record(obviously) and there isn't a message saying anything.


----------



## hookbill

So I go upstairs and turn on a music channel. I hit the record button and away it goes. So I can still record the music channels.


Hey, but wait. Theres more. Not only can I record these channels but I'll be darnd if I can also copy them freely!. That means that if I'm really an enterprising individual with a lot of time on my hands I could probably take this digital music and put it right on a CD or a DVD. I could record hours of music, move it to my computer and burn DVD's like crazy. Right off of Time Warners digital unprotected music channels!


This just adds more proof that it's not the content they are protecting. It's what they want the view to do they are preventing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13982348
> 
> 
> I have no clue how that works. One one hand, the Tivo follows the same encrytpion rules as the SA boxes, since the Tivo uses the cable card for conditional access like what's built in the SA box.



Yeah, that's a mystery to me as well. Maybe they took the protection off a long time ago and we just didn't realize it. I don't think the guide has anything to do with it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13982371
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's a mystery to me as well. Maybe they took the protection off a long time ago and we just didn't realize it. I don't think the guide has anything to do with it.



I was thinking guide data b/c that info tells it what program is on. There are a few of these "No data" channels out there like #218 Village TV, a new channel. This channel cannot be recorded.


It's really stange. SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! They might "fix" this problem now that it has been discussed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13982348
> 
> 
> I have no clue how that works. One one hand, the Tivo follows the same encrytpion rules as the SA boxes, since the Tivo uses the cable card for conditional access like what's built in the SA box.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, Tivo gets different guide data from a different source. Blocking recording could be something specifically written in the software that's not present on Tivo.......



The difference could be "design interpretation" by the mfr's engineers. There are a number of these "design interpretation" issues with the current and evolving HDMI specs. Here are two quick examples of this in the HDMI design world when there is an HDMI video signal input:


1. Passing full video RGB color range (BTB & WTW): Some mfr's do, some don't

2. Video Overlay (introducing anything like Volume Level on to your tv screen that is not part of the original content): some mfr's allow this, some don't


Both examples and all four different outcomes are correct and within specs, based on ones interpretation of the current "specs".


Maybe Tivo and SA interpret the copy protection laws and rules differently. Or maybe Tivo is more confident in their attorney pool.










Also, Tivo is independent and sells direct to the consumer whereas SA's customer is the cable companies. It may be the cable co's interpretation of the copyright rules/laws (read: fear of) so the cable co's mandate more restrictions from their STB box suppliers just to keep out of hot water.


Purely speculation though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/13982454
> 
> 
> It's really stange. SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! They might "fix" this problem now that it has been discussed.



I won't say anything if you don't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13983621
> 
> 
> The difference could be "design interpretation" by the mfr's engineers. There are a number of these "design interpretation" issues with the current and evolving HDMI specs. Here are two quick examples of this in the HDMI design world when there is an HDMI video signal input:
> 
> 
> 1. Passing full video RGB color range (BTB & WTW): Some mfr's do, some don't
> 
> 2. Video Overlay (introducing anything like Volume Level on to your tv screen that is not part of the original content): some mfr's allow this, some don't
> 
> 
> Both examples and all four different outcomes are correct and within specs, based on ones interpretation of the current "specs".
> 
> 
> Maybe Tivo and SA interpret the copy protection laws and rules differently. Or maybe Tivo is more confident in their attorney pool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Tivo is independent and sells direct to the consumer whereas SA's customer is the cable companies. It may be the cable co's interpretation of the copyright rules/laws (read: fear of) so the cable co's mandate more restrictions from their STB box suppliers just to keep out of hot water.
> 
> 
> Purely speculation though.




Well, unless nickdawg gets a flux capacitor and we can travel back to around September 30, 2007 when I had both the SA 8300 and the TiVo S3 we won't know. It didn't occure to me that the SA 8300 might be capabable of receiving that signal so I didn't try, I just thought it was something that the TiVo could do and SA 8300 couldn't. At that time I didn't have a clue about CCI Byte, or what that meant or anything.


Nickdawg on your diagnostic screen can you see CCI Byte?


----------



## beaver2672

Last night Armstrong in Medina added HGTV-HD and Food-HD to the HD lineup. This brings the total number up to 39 HD channels. All we need is Weather and Speed and I'll be happy!


----------



## ZManCartFan

All hail Armstrong!










Speaking of Weather-HD, how would that work with the "Local on the 8's?" Isn't all of that inserted by the local cable company? I wonder if they will need special equipment to insert an HD local break? I'm thinking it would likely be just an SD feed, but to me that would kind of defeat the purpose of having and HD channel. I would want and HD local radar to give better detail.


Yes, I know they have other special programming and specials that could benefit. But I've never really watched the Weather channel for that.


----------



## jtscherne

Most of the Weather Channel's HD content consists of pre-recorded documentaries. Much of the actual current weather content (including studio work) is still SD.


However, I just turned it on and the national "Local on the 8's" feed is actually HD information (I'm on DirecTV, so we don't get a local forecast feed so I don't know what that is like).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13983621
> 
> 
> The difference could be "design interpretation" by the mfr's engineers. There are a number of these "design interpretation" issues with the current and evolving HDMI specs. Here are two quick examples of this in the HDMI design world when there is an HDMI video signal input:
> 
> 
> 1. Passing full video RGB color range (BTB & WTW): Some mfr's do, some don't
> 
> 2. Video Overlay (introducing anything like Volume Level on to your tv screen that is not part of the original content): some mfr's allow this, some don't
> 
> 
> Both examples and all four different outcomes are correct and within specs, based on ones interpretation of the current "specs".



Toby, you raise a very good point. I know of a similar situation regarding early Panasonic tvs with cablecard slots. They had interpreted the laws a little too strictly, and the result was this: if you tuned to an encrypted channel, it turned off the digital audio output of the set! They later came to their senses and issued an upgrade that loosened the interpretation of the law to allow for digital audio output on encrypted channels.


Regarding the Tivo issue, I see three different ways that this could be addressed that should satisy all parties:


1) Create a "copy twice" CCI flag that allows for room-to-room dubbing.


2) Create a hook in the firmware that will allow two Tivos to be "married" in a way that only allows dubbing between those two MAC addresses.


3) Create a move function in Tivo that would _transfer_ (not copy) the content from machine 1 to machine 2 and erase it from machine 1 in the process, leaving the user with one copy at all times. You could call this a "placeshifting" function.


CE technologies generally evolve faster than the law does; witness all of the legal chaos that the internet itself has created. It will take some time to hammer all these issues out in a manner that is fair to all parties. To this end, I think that a rational, level-headed discussion in forums such as this can help the cause.


ck


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13985492
> 
> 
> Regarding the Tivo issue, I see three different ways that this could be addressed that should satisy all parties:
> 
> 
> 1) Create a "copy twice" CCI flag that allows for room-to-room dubbing.



How is that different from Copy once, 0x01?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13985492
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Create a hook in the firmware that will allow two Tivos to be "married" in a way that only allows dubbing between those two MAC addresses.
> 
> 
> 3) Create a move function in Tivo that would _transfer_ (not copy) the content from machine 1 to machine 2 and erase it from machine 1 in the process, leaving the user with one copy at all times. You could call this a "placeshifting" function.
> 
> 
> CE technologies generally evolve faster than the law does; witness all of the legal chaos that the internet itself has created. It will take some time to hammer all these issues out in a manner that is fair to all parties. To this end, I think that a rational, level-headed discussion in forums such as this can help the cause.
> 
> 
> ck



Point #2 you still are not addressing the basic question, which is why put record no copy on ALL digital channels? That's what I have my biggest problem with. I downloaded something on one of the digital channels, maybe ESPN Classic that was AWA Wrestling from the 80's. This really needs copy protection?


Point #3 has been talked about for sometime and personally I'd like that. But

Your point on the HD I consider somewhat valid. I can see why TNT might not want copy freely the HD versiions of a show like "The Closer" or if we had FXHD "Nip/Tuck". But just to put copy protection on all digital is excessively controlling.


D* people, I believe that you can now transfer shows from one box to another, true? If so, you receive everything digital. So are you restricted in your transfers, and can you transfer to your computer?


----------



## bgiese

I noticed last night that the WBNX-55 HD channel is pretty horrible.

Not sure when it began. My recording of Supernatural on Thursday looks OK.


The video is pausing and stuttering. Audio also seems to be slipping or even lagging.


I'm watching on DirecTV. Not sure if it's a WBNX problem or a DirecTV problem.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/13985710
> 
> 
> I noticed last night that the WBNX-55 HD channel is pretty horrible.
> 
> Not sure when it began. My recording of Supernatural on Thursday looks OK.
> 
> 
> The video is pausing and stuttering. Audio also seems to be slipping or even lagging.
> 
> 
> I'm watching on DirecTV. Not sure if it's a WBNX problem or a DirecTV problem.



Was that live and is it still going on? I can take a look via TW.


Personally I think many of these type of errors are really broadcast errors and not the cable company or sat's fault.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Has anyone with Time Warner been able to get a "single stream" cable card working with any PVR or TV? My last two cable guys have told me that they've never been able to get "single stream" scientific atlanta cable cards working with any kind of device. They can only get "multi-stream" cable cards working. I need a single stream for my older Sony DHG-HDD250 DVR. I'm in the old Comcast area and I had no problem with the motorola cable card on this same Sony DVR.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13985881
> 
> 
> Has anyone with Time Warner been able to get a "single stream" cable card working with any PVR or TV? My last two cable guys have told me that they've never been able to get "single stream" scientific atlanta cable cards working with any kind of device. They can only get "multi-stream" cable cards working. I need a single stream for my older Sony DHG-HDD250 DVR. I'm in the old Comcast area and I had no problem with the motorola cable card on this same Sony DVR.



Huh? S card = Single Stream. M card = Multi Stream.


This is another of those things about TW that irritate me, and others. For example I wanted a M card for my HD TiVo. I was told they would bring out an M card but they didn't have any so they brought out two S cards That was fine, it worked but it seemed like in this area M cards are hard to get. Apparently your area has them.


So here's what you do. You email [email protected] and explain your situation to the President of TW NEO. You wil get a call Monday from the manager in your area who will send out two techs at YOUR convenience and they will install a S card for you. Make sure you include your phone number and I like to give them the account number too.


I promise, that will work.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13985881
> 
> 
> Has anyone with Time Warner been able to get a "single stream" cable card working with any PVR or TV? My last two cable guys have told me that they've never been able to get "single stream" scientific atlanta cable cards working with any kind of device. They can only get "multi-stream" cable cards working.



This type of complaint is usually due to cable techs who either don't know what they're doing, or have adopted a "this doesn't work" mentality from what they've heard through the grapevine. I have two single-stream SA cards in my TiVo HD - the TWC tech who installed them seemed to have been around the block a few times, and the cards were installed and running within about 15 minutes. (He stuck around for another half-hour, poking around to make sure everything worked correctly.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/13988521
> 
> 
> This type of complaint is usually due to cable techs who either don't know what they're doing, or have adopted a "this doesn't work" mentality from what they've heard through the grapevine. I have two single-stream SA cards in my TiVo HD - the TWC tech who installed them seemed to have been around the block a few times, and the cards were installed and running within about 15 minutes. (He stuck around for another half-hour, poking around to make sure everything worked correctly.)



This is not what the poster was talking about. He said he needed a single stream card for an older Sony modle DVR.


However after I thought about it I can't think of why it would make a difference if it was an M card or S card. M cards can deliver single streams as easily as multiple streams, i.e. you need to use two M cards on the TiVo S3 where as you only need one on the TiVo HD.


If they have tried it and it doesn't work he will get no where trying to explain this to these techs. [email protected] will get results.


Still, I don't understand why a M card would not work. If required it will act like an S card.


I have seen reports from people who live in Comcast areas who say that the techs have problems installing M cards on the S3. This seems exclusive to Comcast. Even though they are Time Warner now you still have as mnowlin pointed out the same techs and the same talk that will go through the shop.


Write Steve Fry. Many people in this forum will tell you how well that works. And one other thing: Did they try to install the M card and it failed? If so the maybe because it's an older Sony it will only use the S card, though logic tells me otherwise. If you have to get an S card they are available. Mr. Fry's office will make it happen.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13988801
> 
> 
> .......However after I thought about it I can't think of why it would make a difference if it was an M card or S card. M cards can deliver single streams as easily as multiple streams, i.e. you need to use two M cards on the TiVo S3 where as you only need one on the TiVo HD...................Still, I don't understand why a M card would not work. If required it will act like an S card.............
> 
> 
> I have seen reports from people who live in Comcast areas who say that the techs have problems installing M cards on the S3. This seems exclusive to Comcast.............



Older equipment may have been built prior to the Multi-Stream/M-Card/Two-Way Cable Card standards from being settled on. Many people are finding out the hard way that their older HDTV's are only capable of one way cable cards and cannot utilize advanced services (ch. lineup, PPV, etc...) via cable cards if their HDTV cannot except the newer two way cards.


Dunno about TWC or Comcast systems but a lot of the cable card issues are related to hardware incompatibilities. TWC may use XYZ brand cable card that works fine on all brands except Sony tv's. WOW cable may use ABC brand cable card which works fine on all brands except Panny tv's.


Design interpretation strikes again.


----------



## hookbill

Gentlemen, in case anyone stopped looking or paying attention I would like to point out that the NBA FINALS will be between The Los Angeles Lakers and The Boston Celtics, which I think someone in this forum predicted.


Hey....That was me. I predicted that
























Now guys I'm a person who believes in good vibes. When the Tribe was in playing against the Red Sox I rooted for the tribe despite the fact that I have been a Red Sox fan for 39 years. Why? Well, I live in the area now and Boston had broken the curse and I just plain like the Tribe. Unfortunately they lost.


The Laker/Celtic rivalry is just as bitter as Red Sox/Yankees. We hate the Celtics. And after what Boston did to the Tribe and Cavs you should hate Boston. I know you already do. So jump on my bandwagon. Go Lakers. Yeah, it's not the Wine and Gold, it's the Purple and Gold. Pretty darn close, huh?


The Celtics are evil. They are like the Yankees, full of themselves and their "parkay" floor and all that garbage. So join in guys, watch the NBA Finals and root for the Lakers.


Good things will happen if you do. Perhaps the Indians will turn it around. Or the Browns will go to the Super Bowl. It's all cosmic you see and being from La La Land myself I understand these things.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13988836
> 
> 
> Older equipment may have been built prior to the Multi-Stream/M-Card/Two-Way Cable Card standards from being settled on. Many people are finding out the hard way that their older HDTV's are only capable of one way cable cards and cannot utilize advanced services (ch. lineup, PPV, etc...) via cable cards if their HDTV cannot except the newer two way cards.
> 
> 
> Dunno about TWC or Comcast systems but a lot of the cable card issues are related to hardware incompatibilities. TWC may use XYZ brand cable card that works fine on all brands except Sony tv's. WOW cable may use ABC brand cable card which works fine on all brands except Panny tv's.
> 
> 
> Design interpretation strikes again.



Two way communication has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. We are talking about how a slot handles a M Card and S Card.


M cards are designed so that you are able to have multiple streams come through. If the slot is designed to be able to use that card then it will take the streams and allow you to receive more then one channel. For example the TiVo S3 can use the M card however it still needs two of them because the slots were not designed for multiple streaming. The TiVo HD only needs one M card so it can deliver two separate channels through the one slot.


The Tuning Adapter that has been developed by CableLabs, TiVo, Motorola, and SA will allow two way communication for SDV for TiVos. Since I have S cards in all my TiVo's I won't need an M card for the Digital Converter to work. It's the hardware, not the card. SA machines have been designed for two way communication for years which is why you can get on demand with no card. Same with Motorola although from what I hear in some areas those boxes don't work with TW.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/13988904
> 
> 
> Two way communication has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. We are talking about how a slot handles a M Card and S Card........



Yes. I brought up the Cable Card issues to potentially explain why the original posters older box may not be compatible with his cable providers cards. He seems to indicate that his "older" device cannot accept a multi-stream card and is limited to single-stream cards. Unfortunately, his cable providers single-stream cards are not very compatible with many (or any) devices.


As mnowlin pointed out in his response, the original posters problem could simply be the technicians lack of knowledge or experience with such cards. I was just trying to point out that it could also be a true hardware incompatibility as well, as indicated by the technician.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/13988964
> 
> 
> Yes. I brought up the Cable Card issues to potentially explain why the original posters older box may not be compatible with his cable providers cards. He seems to indicate that his "older" device cannot accept a multi-stream card and is limited to single-stream cards. Unfortunately, his cable providers single-stream cards are not very compatible with many (or any) devices.
> 
> 
> As mnowlin pointed out in his response, the original posters problem could simply be the technicians lack of knowledge or experience with such cards. I was just trying to point out that it could also be a true hardware incompatibility as well, as indicated by the technician.



I can see your point. Cable cards do get different versions from time to time and perhaps his Sony is not capable of working with the current version? That would mean that a S card may not work as well.


But being as it's a Sony I kind of find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have thought about that. I still say it's Steve Fry time.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Thanks for all the replies. I think for now I'll try an M Card and see if that works. I didn't know you could use a M Card in a Series 3 TiVo so maybe it will work with my Sony.


The S Card I have will not take the firmware update in my Sony. It just constantly tries to update itself. The cable guy told me he was going to try and grab me a Motorola Card but that it may prove difficult, since Time Warner won't allow anything that is not Scientific Atlanta out again since they have a big contract with them.


I'll use the Steve Fry card as a last resort. The guys I'm working with now have been very cooperative and are trying their best to figure this out. The head cable card guru at my local office is even stumped on this right now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13989422
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the replies. I think for now I'll try an M Card and see if that works. I didn't know you could use a M Card in a Series 3 TiVo so maybe it will work with my Sony.
> 
> *The S Card I have will not take the firmware update in my Sony. It just constantly tries to update itself.* The cable guy told me he was going to try and grab me a Motorola Card but that it may prove difficult, since Time Warner won't allow anything that is not Scientific Atlanta out again since they have a big contract with them.
> 
> *I'll use the Steve Fry card as a last resort*. The guys I'm working with now have been very cooperative and are trying their best to figure this out. The head cable card guru at my local office is even stumped on this right now.



That doesn't sound to good. If the Sony won't take the firmware update from the S card I'm not sure the M card will work either.


The "head cable card guru" at your local office, does he work in headend? If not then he's no real guru. I know the best cable card guru at TW NEO and SHE works in headend.










Since you're in an old Comcast area they probably have a good person but ask if he works in headend. Those are the best contact people. And it sounds like you got a sincere hard working crew on your problem.


I've had two cable card installs and in both cases I "bitched" about the service before I got it. At that time I had Macedonia as my local office and the Supervisor and a lead came out and did the first install. Then a few months ago when I got the TiVo HD I had already had a bad experience with the Concord office so that's why I cut though the red tape and went to the top. Now I have the Supervisors direct line. Trust me they do not want to hear from Mr. Fry's office. Plus I have a contact in headend.


Many people seem to want to wait until "the last resort" to contact Steve Fry. Why? These guys are not your relatives or your friends and they are not going to get in trouble. Get your problem fixed, to heck with waiting until the last resort.


There is an article in Readers Digest that talks about this and it recommends go to the top. Mr. Fry has a firewall of people who know exactly who to contact. So wait if you choose, but I wouldn't.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/13989422
> 
> 
> The S Card I have will not take the firmware update in my Sony. It just constantly tries to update itself.



A few possibilities that come to mind -


1) You might have an RF level issue. The carrier that's used to update the cablecard firmware is typically different from the one that's used to turn it on/off, etc. If you've got low levels on that frequency, it might not be able to see the data stream with the firmware upgrade on it. This problem is handled with traditional RF troubleshooting techniques.


2) The card might not be paired with the host. Ask them to re-pair them after double checking the Host ID and Cablecard ID from the set's diagnostic screens.


3) Firmware incompatibility between the set and the card. Is your set field-upgradable?


4) Bad cablecard or host interface.


It could be something else, but then I can't see your diagnostic screens from here.











Good luck. Hope you get it squared away whatever it is.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/13990030
> 
> 
> A few possibilities that come to mind -
> 
> 
> 2) The card might not be paired with the host. Ask them to re-pair them after double checking the Host ID and Cablecard ID from the set's diagnostic screens.
> 
> 
> 3) Firmware incompatibility between the set and the card. Is your set field-upgradable?



I'm putting my money on #3, with #2 a distinct possibility. But from what he says these guys are giving him good service, it doesn't sound like they are rolling their eyes and going "jeeze, another cable card install" which you see so frequently on the TiVo thread and TCF.


If he can get an upgrade for the set that might be his best bet!


Anyway whatever he does hope he gets it taken care of. Good feedback Cathode Kid.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/13985710
> 
> 
> I noticed last night that the WBNX-55 HD channel is pretty horrible.
> 
> Not sure when it began. My recording of Supernatural on Thursday looks OK.
> 
> 
> The video is pausing and stuttering. Audio also seems to be slipping or even lagging.
> 
> 
> I'm watching on DirecTV. Not sure if it's a WBNX problem or a DirecTV problem.



I haven't watched WBNX-DT lately, however the last time I did I too saw this anomaly. It was so annoying I could not keep the channel on.



I have Dish Network (model ViP 622). The HD feed for locals other than the "big 4" are only HD via OTA reception. I believe that is also true for your DirecTv receiver. This means the problems lies with the WBNX digital transmission. I briefly switched over to the satellite-delivered SD feed and there was no problems (other than it was satellite-delivered SD







).


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/13996049
> 
> 
> I haven't watched WBNX-DT lately, however the last time I did I too saw this anomaly. It was so annoying I could not keep the channel on.
> 
> 
> 
> I have Dish Network (model ViP 622). The HD feed for locals other than the "big 4" are only HD via OTA reception. I believe that is also true for your DirecTv receiver. This means the problems lies with the WBNX digital transmission. I briefly switched over to the satellite-delivered SD feed and there was no problems (other than it was satellite-delivered SD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).



Actually, DirecTV added WBNX-HD to their locals a few weeks back.

Picture had been great until this past week.

I haven't checked in a few days. Hopefully, WBNX has fixed the problem.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/14008098
> 
> 
> Actually, DirecTV added WBNX-HD to their locals a few weeks back.
> 
> Picture had been great until this past week.
> 
> I haven't checked in a few days. Hopefully, WBNX has fixed the problem.



That's amazing when you consider how long it took for WBNX-HD to be added to the local cable systems.


----------



## Too_Many_options

Apparently Time Warner has a new supply of DVR's and Non-DVR HD boxes.

They sent me this reply to my question on availability:

"We no longer need to put customers on a reservation list for Standard DVR's, HD Boxes, and HD\\DVR Boxes. All customers wishing to install or upgrade their service can now contact our customer service center at 877.772.2253 to make arrangements. We appreciate your patience during this temporary setback. And thank you for your continued business. "


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/14026347
> 
> 
> Apparently Time Warner has a new supply of DVR's and Non-DVR HD boxes.



Does anybody know if they have a _non-DVR_ HD box that has HDMI connectivity?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/14030046
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if they have a _non-DVR_ HD box that has HDMI connectivity?



Ask them if the SA 4250 (updated version of the 3250) is available in your area. It's a non-DVR HD box with a firewire spigot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14030735
> 
> 
> Ask them if the SA 4250 (updated version of the 3250) is available in your area. It's a non-DVR HD box with a firewire spigot.



Heh heh heh. Now what do you think a CSR will say to that question?


Think about it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14030784
> 
> 
> Heh heh heh. Now what do you think a CSR will say to that question?
> 
> 
> Think about it.



I checked. They're available in most areas. Go for it, pbarach.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14031319
> 
> 
> I checked. They're available in most areas. Go for it, pbarach.



And how did you check? Did you call, or was it your "source."


----------



## nickdawg

Just get a DVR. You won't know how you lived without it. Plus the DVR boxes seem to work better with the Navigator than the non-DVR boxes. Although a new 4250 should have enough memory to support it.


This is great news!! I have a Pioneer box I want to walk deep into the woods







The older boxes are complete garbage with Navigator.


Don't read too much into mr. bill's signature.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14031412
> 
> 
> And how did you check? Did you call, or was it your "source."



Both. I called one of my sources.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14031462
> 
> 
> Just get a DVR. You won't know how you lived without it. Plus the DVR boxes seem to work better with the Navigator than the non-DVR boxes. Although a new 4250 should have enough memory to support it.
> 
> 
> This is great news!! I have a Pioneer box I want to walk deep into the woods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The older boxes are complete garbage with Navigator.
> 
> 
> Don't read too much into mr. bill's signature.



Well, if you want a piece of garbage that has limited features and is totally unreliable then go ahead and get a cable DVR. If your smart you will wait unti the new Sony Technology comes out and you won't need a DVR. Supposedly.


And nickdawg is suffering from mutltiple personality disorder. The majority of times he hates navigator. He even had his signature saying so. Today he is a big fan.


I've been consistant in my support of TiVo but I would have been able to cope with SA if it only did what it was suppose to do.


There is another side of this story as well. Cost. TiVo is far superior to SA but just like any BMW is better then a Chevy Vega (you remember those, don't you?) they cost more. To get better quality you have to pay more. If you want just basic limited DVR then hey, try the Navigator. If you can afford something nicer and want a better product then TiVo is the choice.


Or as I said earlier you can just hold off and see what this Sony Technology will do.


----------



## MediaObsessions

Hookbill, this is not "Sony's Technology." The Yahoo news article was about Sony supporting Tru2Way, which I believe used to be called OCAP. There are a few other TV manufacturers already on board with this.

engadgethd article 


I am not looking forward to built-in DVR's in TV's. What if I want to switch to satellite? Then the extra hardware I paid for is useless. What if my cable system doesn't support tru2way? Useless again. What about upgrading storage? And does tru2way support 3rd party (ie TiVo) interfaces or are you locked into the cable company system? We all know what happens when the cable company designs interfaces (Navigator anyone?). I'm not an expert on this topic, so feel free to correct me here.


I love my TiVo and I want to continue to use its interface. I want to be able to upgrade my display without having to change set top boxes. I want to be able to upgrade my set top box without having to change displays. It's not for me, I'll take my TiVo S3 with an SDV tuning adapter any day.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/14034267
> 
> 
> Hookbill, this is not "Sony's Technology." The Yahoo news article was about Sony supporting Tru2Way, which I believe used to be called OCAP. There are a few other TV manufacturers already on board with this.
> 
> engadgethd article
> 
> 
> I am not looking forward to built-in DVR's in TV's. What if I want to switch to satellite? Then the extra hardware I paid for is useless. What if my cable system doesn't support tru2way? Useless again. What about upgrading storage? And does tru2way support 3rd party (ie TiVo) interfaces or are you locked into the cable company system? We all know what happens when the cable company designs interfaces (Navigator anyone?). I'm not an expert on this topic, so feel free to correct me here.
> 
> 
> 
> I love my TiVo and I want to continue to use its interface. I want to be able to upgrade my display without having to change set top boxes. I want to be able to upgrade my set top box without having to change displays. It's not for me, I'll take my TiVo S3 with an SDV tuning adapter any day.



I got an education on this on another thread from someone else. Actually it was more like a virtual ***** slap, but I understand it now, it's been demonstrated at the CES and I saw a link with the agreement made with SONY and CableLabs .


As far as the second part of your response, yes, what does this mean to Satellite people? Is it going to cause a price increase? They already are saying that monitors, televisions are going to go up because they all use petroleum products anyway. In the AP article it did say that this technology would be compatible with other DVR's, like TiVo. But why would you need a SA box if you have this technology? TiVo has a lot of other features besides DVR.


As far as disk space, I'll see if I can get an answer on that. I'll assume (yeah I know) that this new technology probably won't require disk space as we use it now.


----------



## hookbill

From what I understand now this technology will not replace DVR's. What it will do is replace the need for a conversion box. You would still need a DVR to record programs.


So as far as satellite goes, those with just a box for their reception would remain the same since this only deals with cable. Existing DVR's would be able to receive the new signal. If you don't have the new technology on your television you would still need a box to convert.


That's my understanding of it at this point.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/14034267
> 
> 
> .............I am not looking forward to built-in DVR's in TV's. What if I want to switch to satellite? Then the extra hardware I paid for is useless. What if my cable system doesn't support tru2way? Useless again. What about upgrading storage? And does tru2way support 3rd party (ie TiVo) interfaces or are you locked into the cable company system? We all know what happens when the cable company designs interfaces (Navigator anyone?). I'm not an expert on this topic, so feel free to correct me here.
> 
> 
> I love my TiVo and I want to continue to use its interface. I want to be able to upgrade my display without having to change set top boxes. I want to be able to upgrade my set top box without having to change displays. It's not for me, I'll take my TiVo S3 with an SDV tuning adapter any day.



I see your points, but I must disagree. Having every major CE mfr competing for cable hardware and software is sorely overdue! Imagen if for the past 20 years we had been able to pick our cable boxes from 50 different mfr's instead of just SA, Motorola, Pace and the few others out there.


As far as paying for extra hardware, that's unavoidable in any CE device. But I'd rather have the option of "have it but not need it" than "need it but not have it". Far more flexibility with more options. How many in here have RGB inputs on their HDTV's? How many actually use these inputs?










I just upgraded my car's head unit and it came with a bunch of *stuff* that is meaningless to me (sat radio ready, iPod ready, HD radio ready, RDS, two aux ports, CD, Bluetooth, silly "entertainment" screens, etc..). All I wanted was AM, FM, and USB. I'm sure other purchasers of this same head unit LOVE their sat radio & iPod connectivity and think to themselves "why on earth would anyone screw around with USB on this unit"










Once this tru2way is incorporated into tv's then we will have the choice of built in digital cable ready or buy/rent our own cable box or go satellite. More choices, more options, more competition. With or without tru2way you can still have your Tivo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14038012
> 
> 
> I see your points, but I must disagree. Having every major CE mfr competing for cable hardware and software is sorely overdue! Imagen if for the past 20 years we had been able to pick our cable boxes from 50 different mfr's instead of just SA, Motorola, Pace and the few others out there.



Absolutely. Competition will only make DVR's better. But I think he was more worried about "tru 2 way" as a DVR itself. It isn't and that what my first impression was as well.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14038012
> 
> 
> As far as paying for extra hardware, that's unavoidable in any CE device. But I'd rather have the option of "have it but not need it" than "need it but not have it". Far more flexibility with more options. How many in here have RGB inputs on their HDTV's? How many actually use these inputs?



I use two. I use one of my 2 HDMI ports and one of my component inputs. I have no idea how many are back there but it is excessive.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14038012
> 
> 
> I just upgraded my car's head unit and it came with a bunch of *stuff* that is meaningless to me (sat radio ready, iPod ready, HD radio ready, RDS, two aux ports, CD, Bluetooth, silly "entertainment" screens, etc..). All I wanted was AM, FM, and USB. I'm sure other purchasers of this same head unit LOVE their sat radio & iPod connectivity and think to themselves "why on earth would anyone screw around with USB on this unit"



Geeze, can you brag any more?










Just kidding, but XM is a must for me. What the heck do you do with the USB?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14038012
> 
> 
> Once this tru2way is incorporated into tv's then we will have the choice of built in digital cable ready or buy/rent our own cable box or go satellite. More choices, more options, more competition. With or without tru2way you can still have your Tivo.



Exactly!


----------



## hookbill

I'm just curious. Has anyone who use to have SARA been switched to Navigator? The only one I know for sure are Passport people.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14038424
> 
> 
> ....Geeze, can you brag any more?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding, but XM is a must for me. What the heck do you do with the USB?



Not bragging, it's just a mid-level Pioneer head unit. I was just trying to relate a recent personal experience of "all this extra stuff I have no need for".


USB is being put onto many more CE devices as it's just so universal and flexible. With a USB capable car head unit you can play music files via memory stick, mp3 player, iPod, or even a USB hard drive. I put in an Iomega e-go 160gb USB hard drive loaded with my entire music collection (about 4,600 songs) and I have close to 120gb of unused disk space for future growth. I got tired of continually burning CD's every time I wanted to add a few more songs.


Unfortunately, the low to mid level head units only allow lossy playback via USB (MP3, AAC, WMA-lossy). The more expensive units like the Alpine's will play back lossless files like WAV and WMA-lossless and they are already designing head unit USB support for FLAC and OGG lossless formats.


Though in a car with a mediocre sound system and the inevitable ambient noise in cars I doubt I could hear the difference between lossy & lossless in my car.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14038723
> 
> 
> Though in a car with a mediocre sound system and the inevitable ambient noise in cars I doubt I could hear the difference between lossy & lossless in my car.



At some times the compression inherent in MP3 is actually better for overcoming the road noise in a car. Getting the quieter passages to come in a little bit louder helps one to pick out the subleties of the music over the roar of the engine and the whoosh of the wind. Of course there are other tradeoffs in quality with MP3, but selecting a CBR for encoding can help that.


----------



## jtscherne

Anyone watching the game this afternoon? Rick Manning sounds normal, but Matt Underwood has a strange echo to his voice, or he's slightly off mike.


I'm watching via Directv and through my sound system.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Yeah, I'm getting it as well through Armstrong in Medina.


----------



## jtscherne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14039434
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm getting it as well through Armstrong in Medina.



It sounds like they're fixing it. It sounds more normal now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14039322
> 
> 
> At some times the compression inherent in MP3 is actually better for overcoming the road noise in a car. Getting the quieter passages to come in a little bit louder helps one to pick out the subleties of the music over the roar of the engine and the whoosh of the wind. Of course there are other tradeoffs in quality with MP3, but selecting a CBR for encoding can help that.



As far as quality of sound goes I can't tell the difference from a CD, MP3, AAC etc.


Maybe it's because I grew up with RECORDS. You know those round things you use to put on a turntable and drop a needle on it.


Now when CD's came out I could hear the difference, big time.


I will say this about XM - quality of sound is not as good as CD or digital cable music, except on their Dolby 5.1 channel Fine Tuning channel 76. But that doesn't do me any good since you need a receiver that has XM built in it and capable of Dolby 5.1. And I refuse to buy more then 1 subscription, although when I return my car in December I may have to.


How the heck did we get here? Oh crap I think I started it by asking about the USB port. Sorry guys.


----------



## hookbill

Anybody else noticing this? I've had the set on WJW for a while now and I'm getting a lot of sound drop offs. OTA, Dish people....Please check in.










And I take it from the fact that there was no response that nobody with SARA has been switched to Navigator?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14039322
> 
> 
> At some times the compression inherent in MP3 is actually better for overcoming the road noise in a car. Getting the quieter passages to come in a little bit louder helps one to pick out the subleties of the music over the roar of the engine and the whoosh of the wind. Of course there are other tradeoffs in quality with MP3, but selecting a CBR for encoding can help that.



Unless there is something seriously wrong with the encoder, there should be no audio compression in an MP3 conversion. There are some MP3 tags that include gain management, but this won't affect dynamic range ratios, only overall average level. Audio compression (not to be confused with data compression) is not a part of the MP3 process.


There may be some encoders that offer dynamic range compression as an option when encoding MP3s, but that's an separate process from the encoding itself. Personally, I'd recommend staying away from it - most modern recordings are way too squashed in the first place!


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/14043674
> 
> 
> Unless there is something seriously wrong with the encoder, there should be no audio compression in an MP3 conversion. There are some MP3 tags that include gain management, but this won't affect dynamic range ratios, only overall average level. Audio compression (not to be confused with data compression) is not a part of the MP3 process.



However, as several recent articles in Rolling Stone and elsewhere have pointed out, a lot of pop music these days is being recorded with a highly constricted (in the direction of LOUD) dynamic range, to the point of frequent clipping. All of this will be even worse-sounding in an mp3 conversion, which adds distortion of its own.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/14043674
> 
> 
> ........... Personally, I'd recommend staying away from it - most modern recordings are way too squashed in the first place!



Yup, I do avoid any/all lossy formats when possible. My first rip is always full WAV with accurate ripping and excellent error detection. Then I convert those WAV's to MP3 VBR @ 320k. Unfortunately some of my devices can't use lossless formats so I'm stuck with MP3's for those







, or the usage is in an environment where lossless is completely pointless.


----------



## Ben Music




hookbill said:


> Anybody else noticing this? I've had the set on WJW for a while now and I'm getting a lot of sound drop offs. OTA, Dish people....Please check in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Hook, I had the same audio drops on both TWC and
> 
> Directv. Forgot to check OTA.
> 
> 
> Ben Music


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14043714
> 
> 
> Yup, I do avoid any/all lossy formats when possible. My first rip is always full WAV with accurate ripping and excellent error detection. Then I convert those WAV's to MP3 VBR @ 320k. Unfortunately some of my devices can't use lossless formats so I'm stuck with MP3's for those
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , or the usage is in an environment where lossless is completely pointless.



I'm not suggesting that MP3s can't be quite usable in the right circumstances. I have plenty of them, and I even went out of my way to get a car that would play them from a CD. I am somewhat meticulous in the way I create them, and I do tend to use higher bitrates. My only point is that there is nothing in the MP3 process to cause audio compression, and that for most current pop music it wouldn't be desirable anyway. But as you say, there are plenty of situations in which the damage caused by the MP3 encoding isn't severe enough to be troublesome. Sometimes it's a handy format.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/14043679
> 
> 
> However, as several recent articles in Rolling Stone and elsewhere have pointed out, a lot of pop music these days is being recorded with a highly constricted (in the direction of LOUD) dynamic range, to the point of frequent clipping.



We've been discussing the "loudness wars" in pro audio circles for 10-15 years now. It's a nasty problem and it doesn't appear that it will ever go away. It's sad - the CD medium gives us tremendous dynamic range, yet we use only the top 10db or so.


----------



## hookbill




Ben Music said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14041037
> 
> 
> Yes Hook, I had the same audio drops on both TWC and
> 
> Directv. Forgot to check OTA.
> 
> 
> Ben Music
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Ben. I saw it this morning as well.
Click to expand...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14041037
> 
> 
> Anybody else noticing this? I've had the set on WJW for a while now and I'm getting a lot of sound drop offs. OTA, Dish people....Please check in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I take it from the fact that there was no response that nobody with SARA has been switched to Navigator?



A "Dish person" here. I not only had audio dropouts on FOX 8, I also had severe pixelation. I switched to OTA and there still was some pixelation. The signal strength was varying. Since I live in the shadow of their tower it appears that FOX 8 was having some transmission issues. This used to happen with regularity on WEWS.


----------



## Smarty-pants

QUESTION: What happens if you try to transmit HD signals over RG59 instead of RG6? Will there be any signal at all?

TIA


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/14044149
> 
> 
> It's sad - the CD medium gives us tremendous dynamic range, yet we use only the top 10db or so.




There are lots of people who are so deafened by listening to overloud music for extended periods that maybe that top 10 dB is all that they can hear! (except for the subwoofer range that transmits through the feet)


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14047754
> 
> 
> QUESTION: What happens if you try to transmit HD signals over RG59 instead of RG6? Will there be any signal at all?
> 
> TIA



In short runs I don't believe there is any real difference. Are you just going coax F to F or are you making Component Video cables?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14048147
> 
> 
> In short runs I don't believe there is any real difference. Are you just going coax F to F or are you making Component Video cables?



There are a couple issues. One is the the dvd recorder in my bedroom has a built-in digital/QAM tuner. Now it doesn't seem to be picking up the digital stations. This is THE one line in my house that is "older", and I'm not sure that it IS RG6 or not. Now at first you think that the tuner is bad, I have had issues with the digtal signals coming in over the last several months. It is very weak. So I am wondering if even the drop may be bad or outdated. I need to just get Warner out to check the line I guess. I was trying to wait till they get everything settled form the system and what not. BTW, the line going to the bedroom is about 50'. I have 3 othe tvs/tuners that I AM getting the digitals on, but the signals are weak. I've even got a couple amps on the lines and can't get a digital signal at all without them. I subscribe to basic analog service only (channels 2-22). However, I take advantage of the QAM signals to watch the locals in HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14048363
> 
> 
> There are a couple issues. One is the the dvd recorder in my bedroom has a built-in digital/QAM tuner. Now it doesn't seem to be picking up the digital stations. This is THE one line in my house that is "older", and I'm not sure that it IS RG6 or not. Now at first you think that the tuner is bad, I have had issues with the digtal signals coming in over the last several months. It is very weak. So I am wondering if even the drop may be bad or outdated. I need to just get Warner out to check the line I guess. I was trying to wait till they get everything settled form the system and what not. BTW, the line going to the bedroom is about 50'. I have 3 othe tvs/tuners that I AM getting the digitals on, but the signals are weak. I've even got a couple amps on the lines and can't get a digital signal at all without them. I subscribe to basic analog service only (channels 2-22). However, I take advantage of the QAM signals to watch the locals in HD.



The RG-59 that I've used for baseband video in the past was typically only swept to 100mhz, as it's considered to be primarily for baseband video use. It also has MUCH poorer shielding than RG-6. Since the QAMs are up above 550mhz, I'm pretty sure that's your culprit.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14038012
> 
> 
> I see your points, but I must disagree. Having every major CE mfr competing for cable hardware and software is sorely overdue! Imagen if for the past 20 years we had been able to pick our cable boxes from 50 different mfr's instead of just SA, Motorola, Pace and the few others out there.
> 
> .........
> 
> Once this tru2way is incorporated into tv's then we will have the choice of built in digital cable ready or buy/rent our own cable box or go satellite. More choices, more options, more competition. With or without tru2way you can still have your Tivo.



I see all your points, and I am all for competition. Getting out of the clutches of Cisco/Mot/Pace will be a god-send for most people. I used to run a Sony 34" Tube on a CableCard and I loved not having a set top box. Adding 2-way communication is a wonderful step forward. I'm just not crazy about the idea of built-in DVR's in my display as Hookbill was suggesting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/14048679
> 
> 
> I'm just not crazy about the idea of built-in DVR's in my display as Hookbill was suggesting.



I never said that. I don't even know how you got that idea.


What I said was that it will NOT have a DVR. It's just a different technology for communication then what we currently have. If you want a DVR you will still have to buy one, the key to this is that this will work with all DVR's.


The article says it will eliminate boxes. It doesn't say eliminate DVR's. That's where you are getting confused.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14031533
> 
> 
> Well, if you want a piece of garbage that has limited features and is totally unreliable then go ahead and get a cable DVR. If your smart you will wait unti the new Sony Technology comes out and you won't need a DVR. Supposedly.
> 
> 
> ........
> 
> 
> Or as I said earlier you can just hold off and see what this Sony Technology will do.



Guess I'm just confused as to what you were saying. I apologize.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14048649
> 
> 
> The RG-59 that I've used for baseband video in the past was typically only swept to 100mhz, as it's considered to be primarily for baseband video use. It also has MUCH poorer shielding than RG-6. Since the QAMs are up above 550mhz, I'm pretty sure that's your culprit.



Do you think that it is possible that the primary "drop" from the street could be RG59? IF that were the case, would I be getting any HD signals at all?... or would they be spuratic and weak? I think I will just finally call TW tomorrow. Of course I already know what the dumb CSR is going to say. "Sir, you are only subscribed to Lifeline Basic. You are not entitles to HD channels. You will need to upgrade your service to digtal and will need to use our STB."







That is when I will have to email a letter to Steve Fry Sr.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/14049151
> 
> 
> Guess I'm just confused as to what you were saying. I apologize.



No need to apologize. I was just taking my usual rip at SA 8300.







I guess I could see why you were confused though, at that time I thought it was a DVR included thing as well. But I found out later that it wasn't and if you read further down I stated that.


----------



## hookbill

I use wireless back speakers and I have a little device that broadcast the signals to these speakers. When the signal is good the light flashes on the broadcaster. CBS overloads it, I have to turn it down, FOX is good ABC not bad and NBC sometimes goood sometimes not good (Law & Order - though better this season - any of them).


Now the CW is in HD and Dolby 5.1 on TW and I can't get a peep out of those back speakers. You would think with shows like Supernatural, Smallville, and Reaper you would expect some cool sounds. But I actually do better with Dolby PL II then with Dolby 5.1. And I can't use Dolby PL II if it's being broadcast in HD with Dolby 5.1.


Anybody else notice this? Kind of disappointing. I cranked it up a ful 10 db's and I couldn't hear crap.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14049266
> 
> 
> Do you think that it is possible that the primary "drop" from the street could be RG59? IF that were the case, would I be getting any HD signals at all?... or would they be spuratic and weak? I think I will just finally call TW tomorrow. Of course I already know what the dumb CSR is going to say. "Sir, you are only subscribed to Lifeline Basic. You are not entitles to HD channels. You will need to upgrade your service to digtal and will need to use our STB."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is when I will have to email a letter to Steve Fry Sr.



If that drop cable was installed anytime in the past thirty years, it's most definitely not RG-59. All of the MSOs have been using RG-6. You still could have rolloff on the high frequencies for other reasons though, including water ingress, corroded connections, etc. Corrosion frequenty reveals itself as ingress (ghosting) on the local analog broadcast channels only.


----------



## Inundated

Since it was asked upthread - still on SARA on both my SA boxes, SD in here, and 8000HD in the loft. My boxes are so old, they may not bother or be able to convert them to Navigator!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14049954
> 
> 
> If that drop cable was installed anytime in the past thirty years, it's most definitely not RG-59. All of the MSOs have been using RG-6. You still could have rolloff on the high frequencies for other reasons though, including water ingress, corroded connections, etc. Corrosion frequenty reveals itself as ingress (ghosting) on the local analog broadcast channels only.



Thanks CK. Ya, a while ago I was thinking water in the line too, because it seemed to get worse after a good rain. I guess I will just have to call TW. Not looking forward to it.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14049954
> 
> 
> If that drop cable was installed anytime in the past thirty years, it's most definitely not RG-59. All of the MSOs have been using RG-6.



They're using RG11 here. It's substantially heavier than RG6.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/14043674
> 
> 
> Unless there is something seriously wrong with the encoder, there should be no audio compression in an MP3 conversion. There are some MP3 tags that include gain management, but this won't affect dynamic range ratios, only overall average level. Audio compression (not to be confused with data compression) is not a part of the MP3 process.
> 
> 
> There may be some encoders that offer dynamic range compression as an option when encoding MP3s, but that's an separate process from the encoding itself. Personally, I'd recommend staying away from it - most modern recordings are way too squashed in the first place!



Jim, thanks for your remarks. I agree that there's no _deliberat_e compressor/expander scheme built into the standard. However I suspect that the _apparent_ compression that I hear is possibly the result of rounding errors in the scaling process as the encoder constantly tweaks the processing as it rides the signal to noise ratio up and down during quantizing. Add that to the "crowded" sound that results from lopping off the more percussive energies at 15khz and above and the result can start to sound like AM radio from the immediately post Orban-Parasound-Optimod-8000 compressor days.


Not that I'm dating myself or anything like that.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/14050008
> 
> 
> They're using RG11 here. It's substantially heavier than RG6.



You must have a long drop. RG-11 has considerably lower loss than RG-6, but it's so thick that it's only used where necessary.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14049266
> 
> 
> Do you think that it is possible that the primary "drop" from the street could be RG59? IF that were the case, would I be getting any HD signals at all?... or would they be spuratic and weak? I think I will just finally call TW tomorrow. Of course I already know what the dumb CSR is going to say. "Sir, you are only subscribed to Lifeline Basic. You are not entitles to HD channels. You will need to upgrade your service to digtal and will need to use our STB."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is when I will have to email a letter to Steve Fry Sr.



As the others have pointed out RG6 is the most prevalent cable co. supplied coax. I assumed you were talking about video distribution inside your house, not the cable coming from the street.


RG6 and RG59 are pretty generic terms as each "type" will also have varying degrees of sheilding, core cable thickness, core cable materials (how much copper), etc..


I think RG6 is recommended (if not necessary) for high speed internet & voip services, where as RG59 is more for video distribution. I use a Beldon RG59 Duobond (dual sheild) for all coax connections inside the house from the OTA antenna and from the cable junction box on the side of my house. The cable from the street to my junction box is quite thick, I'm guessing it's the RG11 that Jim mentioned.


Bottom line, it sounds like you have issues from the street and this should be fixed by the cable co. No matter what level of service you are paying for you should not require boosters/amplifiers for cable viewing. In fact, you may just be boosting/amplifying a poor signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14049990
> 
> 
> Since it was asked upthread - still on SARA on both my SA boxes, SD in here, and 8000HD in the loft. My boxes are so old, they may not bother or be able to convert them to Navigator!



Your SD box probably won't be converted. And your SA 8000, well, you are probably the only person in all of TWNEO to still have one.










I wouldn't have a clue as to using navigator software on any set top box but perhaps someone out there who has one does. But it would seem odd that you would have two types of guides for one system.


My question really came from a discussion over on the SA 8300 SARA thread. I was just wondering if anyone had been converted over here.


----------



## dmkasper

Over the last 3 days, I've been having intermittent trouble with my HD channels through Armstrong in Medina. The picture is freezing up and the sound drops out. It's with both the STB and the QAM. SD channels are fine. It's bad for about 30 minutes then will be fine for hours. Anyone else having this problem?


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmkasper* /forum/post/14051605
> 
> 
> Over the last 3 days, I've been having intermittent trouble with my HD channels through Armstrong in Medina. The picture is freezing up and the sound drops out. It's with both the STB and the QAM. SD channels are fine. It's bad for about 30 minutes then will be fine for hours. Anyone else having this problem?



I have seen this (on Time Warner) on a couple of channels (fox 8 HD and Food HD). Previous posts mentioned problems on fox 8


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14051459
> 
> 
> My question really came from a discussion over on the SA 8300 SARA thread. I was just wondering if anyone had been converted over here.



Hook, I live in Aurora, and I have an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have not been converted to Navigator as of 0800 hrs. this morning.


Are they planning to convert the SARA people???


----------



## dmkasper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/14053046
> 
> 
> I have seen this (on Time Warner) on a couple of channels (fox 8 HD and Food HD). Previous posts mentioned problems on fox 8



My problem is definitely with all HD, not just one or two channels. Might be time for that service call.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/14053436
> 
> 
> Hook, I live in Aurora, and I have an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have not been converted to Navigator as of 0800 hrs. this morning.
> 
> 
> Are they planning to convert the SARA people???



From what I hear on SA 8300 SARA thread there has been only one report of a change from SARA to Navigator and my understanding is the information from that person was probable erroneous.


Nobody really knows why, all you can do is speculate. My guess would be that such a change would cause a major corruption and either render the machine useless (probably) or wipe out all your recordings.


Since TW is more concerned with their equipment then you and your recordings I think my first guess is most likely.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14051459
> 
> 
> Your SD box probably won't be converted. And your SA 8000, well, you are probably the only person in all of TWNEO to still have one.



You know me...inertia. I just never changed out the box I got with Adelphia a few years ago.










I don't really care about the SD box. It's the one attached to my TiVo S2, and the TiVo interface means I barely see the SARA interface - only when I change channels or the box changes channels, then I briefly see the SARA yellow channel banner at the bottom.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14051459
> 
> 
> Your SD box probably won't be converted. And your SA 8000, well, you are probably the only person in all of TWNEO to still have one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



It WILL be converted eventually. They have converted ALL of our boxes including the ancient Pioneer SD boxes. If you have one of these boxes beware. The UI is slow and freezes up. Also, the guide font looks like an old Atari game from the 80s. The program guide and channel banner constantly says Loading and the guide literaly blacks out. With the one I have, VOD doesn't work and you cannot search for programs with the new search menu. It's going back as soon as I have time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14055707
> 
> 
> It WILL be converted eventually. They have converted ALL of our boxes including the ancient Pioneer SD boxes. If you have one of these boxes beware. The UI is slow and freezes up. Also, the guide font looks like an old Atari game from the 80s. The program guide and channel banner constantly says Loading and the guide literaly blacks out. With the one I have, VOD doesn't work and you cannot search for programs with the new search menu. It's going back as soon as I have time.



YOU WILL ASSIMILATE, said the borg.










Nickdawg, did you see the post I wrote about how over in the SA 8300 SARA THREAD that there has not been one reliable post that anyone anywhere has had SARA converted to Navigator? After you read my link read the next post as well.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I just drove past the FOX 8 transmitter, there were 2 Illuminating Co. trucks (big trucks) and the station engineer's car parked in front. Perhaps the pixelation and audio dropout problems were caused by a power service problem.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmkasper* /forum/post/14054214
> 
> 
> My problem is definitely with all HD, not just one or two channels. Might be time for that service call.



I haven't had any issues with the HD channels on Armstrong at all. I'd say it's definitely time for a service call.


As an aside, I had another incredibly positive experience with Armstrong this weekend. I've got phone and internet service through them as well as the TV side, and my cable modem had been dropping its connection for the past month or so. At first, I could just unplug the box for a couple of seconds, and the connection would reestablish. It only happened about every 4 or 5 days, so while it was annoying, it wasn't a huge issue.


But starting on Saturday, nothing I did would get the modem to connect so I was without home phone service. I called Armstrong about 5:00 pm Saturday on their regular service line. By 7:00 "Andy" was at my place to check everything out. It turned out that the cable running from the wall to my modem was an RG-59 cable, and it was causing up to 10db of signal loss. Keep in mind that the run was only about 5 feet.


Andy not only replaced that cable, but he checked all other connections within the house, at the side of the house, and at the street. He replaced one splitter (which was only about 2 months old from when the basement was finished) with a more efficient one. He even went around to different outlets within the house to make sure that the signal was consistent everywhere.


At one point he noticed that the DVR remote I had was worn and all the printed numbers were missing. He asked if I wanted a new one, and he even programmed the remote with the existing codes for the other equipment.


He even left me with a 15 cable for an antenna run that I was trying to complete!


This was after a 13 hour day for him, and I was his last call for the evening (his supervisor called while he was there and thanked him for his hard work that day).


So many times we complain about the poor service we receive, but we don't take enough time to publicly recognize those who go above and beyond. Andy certainly did on Saturday. But, really, his service was indicative of the level of commitment I've seen from Armstrong every time I've had to call them for something. Yes, I'm turning into a fanboy. But it's hard not to when it comes to them.


By the way, Andy pointed out that they are on call 24 hours a day because of the phone service. I hadn't really thought of it, but given that the TV, internet, and phone all come through the same wire, theoretically at least I could get Armstrong out to restore the informercials at 2:00 am on a Sunday morning as long as the phone went out at the same time!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14055871
> 
> 
> I just drove past the FOX 8 transmitter, there were 2 Illuminating Co. trucks (big trucks) and the station engineer's car parked in front. Perhaps the pixelation and audio dropout problems were caused by a power service problem.



They are having transmitter issues and my understanding is that they're on their backup transmitter while the problem is beiing worked on. It's entirely possible that they were experiencing power sags due to a lot of air conditioners running. Perhaps the power company is beefing up their electrical service to compensate for I/R drop.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14056382
> 
> 
> ...It turned out that the cable running from the wall to my modem was an RG-59 cable, and it was causing up to 10db of signal loss. Keep in mind that the run was only about 5 feet.



'Nuff said about using RG-59 for broadband RF!


This reminds me of a really funny news release I saw many years ago regarding twisted pair copper and a group of scientists who were trying to push it to run at something like 10gb. The essence of the news release was:


The good news: It works!!


The bad news: We can only get it to travel for two inches.


----------



## paule123

Since you guys were discussing this great new Tru2Way technology, thought you'd get a chuckle out of this news posted today:


Initial Tru2Way Tests a 'Disaster'

Looks like the cable box will be sticking around for now...

04:02PM Tuesday Jun 10 2008 by Karl

tags: business · hardware · cable

Back in January, the cable industry announced Tru2way, a re-imagining of OCAP technology that's intended to integrate set-top box functionality into TVs and other devices. Users would be able to use these devices with any cable operator. Last month a huge deal was made about Sony joining the consortium and killing off the cable box. Not so fast. IP Democracy quotes someone close to the project calls initial tests a "disaster of spectacular proportions," all but destroying rumors of a Comcast Denver and Chicagolaunch in August.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/I...Disaster-95169


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14057474
> 
> 
> Since you guys were discussing this great new Tru2Way technology, thought you'd get a chuckle out of this news posted today:
> 
> 
> Initial Tru2Way Tests a 'Disaster'
> 
> Looks like the cable box will be sticking around for now...
> 
> 04:02PM Tuesday Jun 10 2008 by Karl
> 
> tags: business · hardware · cable
> 
> Back in January, the cable industry announced Tru2way, a re-imagining of OCAP technology that's intended to integrate set-top box functionality into TVs and other devices. Users would be able to use these devices with any cable operator. Last month a huge deal was made about Sony joining the consortium and killing off the cable box. Not so fast. IP Democracy quotes someone close to the project calls initial tests a "disaster of spectacular proportions," all but destroying rumors of a Comcast Denver and Chicagolaunch in August.
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/I...Disaster-95169



I have no idea of who IP Democracy is. Is this creditable?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14056382
> 
> 
> theoretically at least I could get Armstrong out to restore the informercials at 2:00 am on a Sunday morning as long as the phone went out at the same time!



Ahh, but wait... If your phone was out, you couldn't call them to report a problem! (For the sake of argument, forget about cell phones.)










I always love it when I call TWC to report problems with my TV or RR, yet they insist on trying to sell me their phone service. I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14058903
> 
> 
> I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...



One word: VONAGE


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14058903
> 
> 
> Ahh, but wait... If your phone was out, you couldn't call them to report a problem! (For the sake of argument, forget about cell phones.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always love it when I call TWC to report problems with my TV or RR, yet they insist on trying to sell me their phone service. I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...



VOIP isn't without it's issues but I've been very pleased with WOW's VOIP service for over two years. A couple of minor issues in the beginning but resolved. In my experience having the home phone provider out to my home about once every two years seems to be my norm (Ohio Bell, Ameritech, WOW) so the reliability of WOW service has at least been no worse than the old landline system.


With two home phone lines WOW VOIP has saved me well over $400 a year x two years compared to land lines.










Now, if they can just get the $20 per year MagicJack VOIP type service more stable (quality of service and financially) we all could save a FORTUNE in home phone service!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14058903
> 
> 
> I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14059272
> 
> 
> One word: VONAGE



NO!! One word: LANDLINE


I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.


I would never trust a service as important as the phone to a pathetic company like Time Warner. And I find it even more insulting that they have the nerve to try to sell their service while I'm on hold b/c another one of their services doesn't work.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Who doesn't have a cell phone to use when the power is out? I thought everyone had a cell phone.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14062463
> 
> 
> NO!! One word: LANDLINE
> 
> 
> I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.



I'm thrilled with Vonage...it works great, and even during the last power outage I had, my own UPS kept the Vonage adapter (and cable modem and router) going for a good hour or two.


I had kept a landline for 911 purposes, but decided it was overkill. I can't see a situation where I couldn't get out an emergency call either on the Vonage phone or my cell phone with little difficulty.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14062628
> 
> 
> Who doesn't have a cell phone to use when the power is out? I thought everyone had a cell phone.



If it's a massive power outage that may affect the cell phone towers as well.


I lived through 4 days of no power in the early 90's after a micro-burst hit Euclid. The landline never lost it's dial tone the entire time!


----------



## jtscherne

I still have my landline because of DSL. I know there's supposed to be a way to get DSL without landline service, but I haven't taken the time to figure it out. Since I have D*, it's my only option for broadband.






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14062727
> 
> 
> I'm thrilled with Vonage...it works great, and even during the last power outage I had, my own UPS kept the Vonage adapter (and cable modem and router) going for a good hour or two.
> 
> 
> I had kept a landline for 911 purposes, but decided it was overkill. I can't see a situation where I couldn't get out an emergency call either on the Vonage phone or my cell phone with little difficulty.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14062727
> 
> 
> I'm thrilled with Vonage...it works great, and even during the last power outage I had, my own UPS kept the Vonage adapter (and cable modem and router) going for a good hour or two.
> 
> 
> I had kept a landline for 911 purposes, but decided it was overkill. I can't see a situation where I couldn't get out an emergency call either on the Vonage phone or my cell phone with little difficulty.



The modem I have from Armstrong has a battery in it. I also added a battery backup (an actual 9-volt kind) for my cordless home phone. I luckily live in an area that has lost power once in the last 6 years -- not durng the massive blackout a couple of years ago, mind you. But the chances of losing the cable phone service and power at the same time are pretty slim.


I agree with the safety concern, but for me the relatively low loss of potential safety was completely outweighed by the $55+ per month I saved by switching.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14062752
> 
> 
> If it's a massive power outage that may affect the cell phone towers as well.
> 
> 
> I lived through 4 days of no power in the early 90's after a micro-burst hit Euclid. The landline never lost it's dial tone the entire time!



I remember that micro-burst. I was living there also and I was also without power for 4 days. I remember walking around the streets the next day, assessing the wind damage, and I found an electrical insulator on the ground that had been ripped off a telephone pole. I still have that insulator as a reminder.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14062463
> 
> 
> NO!! One word: LANDLINE
> 
> 
> I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.



Enhanced 911 is available from both Vonage and Time Warner. That 911 thing is just a scare tatic to keep you from dropping landline.


I have a natural gas generator so it's no problem for me when the power goes out. For those who don't, Vonage will forward to your cell phone.


Believe it or not at one time there was no 911! We dialed the O for operator in an emergency.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14062463
> 
> 
> I would never trust a service as important as the phone to a pathetic company like Time Warner. And I find it even more insulting that they have the nerve to try to sell their service while I'm on hold b/c another one of their services doesn't work.



Here we agree but for different reasons. Time Warner has "introductory rates" which will go up after a certain amount of time. They also charge for voice mail. Vonage doesn't. And I pay $19.95 for 500 outgoing calls a month. I've never even come close to that. Incoming calls are free. And also there is no charge for calling toll free 800 type numbers. Vonage also sends you an email when you have voice mail.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14062628
> 
> 
> Who doesn't have a cell phone to use when the power is out? I thought everyone had a cell phone.



Hehe... My business partner, who is a serious geek running a technology company, refuses to get a cell phone. "I just don't want to be that reachable."


Go figure...


----------



## hookbill

I like to point out that technically none of us have cell phones. What we have now are wireless phones using digital technology. But "cell" has become the terminology just like for many a DVR is a "TiVo", or the use of the expression " I Tivo'd that last night."


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14062463
> 
> 
> NO!! One word: LANDLINE
> 
> 
> I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.
> 
> 
> I would never trust a service as important as the phone to a pathetic company like Time Warner. And I find it even more insulting that they have the nerve to try to sell their service while I'm on hold b/c another one of their services doesn't work.



Although WOW VOIP has the 911 service (something I could care less about, I wasn't even aware I had it till this topic came up) there are several alternatives to getting emergency help:

- cell phone

- neighbors

- security system with one button emergency dial

- for the truly paranoid....the "I've fallen and I can't get up" product










The monthly savings of VOIP could easily pay for the above services with $$$ to spare.










Now the reliability of TWC is another issue altogether and understandably a legitimate concern.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14066360
> 
> 
> Now the reliability of TWC is another issue altogether and understandably a legitimate concern.




Truthfully when it comes to internet I find Time Warner reliability is pretty good - however I do think that I liked Adelphia better. RoadRunner doesn't seem as "high speed" as they claim, even using their own test site which is all the way down in Cincinnatti.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14066360
> 
> 
> Although WOW VOIP has the 911 service (something I could care less about, I wasn't even aware I had it till this topic came up) there are several alternatives to getting emergency help:
> 
> - cell phone
> 
> - neighbors
> 
> - security system with one button emergency dial
> 
> - for the truly paranoid....the "I've fallen and I can't get up" product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The monthly savings of VOIP could easily pay for the above services with $$$ to spare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the reliability of TWC is another issue altogether and understandably a legitimate concern.



Agreed. We have Vonage in our house and the savings are well worth it. We have gradually used the "landline" less and less over the years. I got tired of paying $50+ for the landline. Now I pay $25 (about $30 with taxes) a month on the home phone service, and I can call more places for free. The only reason we keep is is because there are some people who still call us on it. Otherwise it is cell phones. But to be on the safe side, I have all of the network equip. in the house hooked up to a UPS, so at least we will have a window of talk time on everything before the power completely goes out.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/14067339
> 
> 
> Agreed. We have Vonage in our house and the savings are well worth it. We have gradually used the "landline" less and less over the years. I got tired of paying $50+ for the landline. Now I pay $25 (about $30 with taxes) a month on the home phone service, and I can call more places for free. The only reason we keep is is because there are some people who still call us on it. Otherwise it is cell phones. But to be on the safe side, I have all of the network equip. in the house hooked up to a UPS, so at least we will have a window of talk time on everything before the power completely goes out.



Yeah, WOW VOIP (cable modem with phone inputs) has a built in battery.

I have no clue how long that battery would function in a power outage situation.


----------



## Inundated

As far as cell phones and power outages go - I still had cell service during that big summer outage a few years ago.


Of course, it was difficult to reach my father, who has another carrier...


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14062752
> 
> 
> If it's a massive power outage that may affect the cell phone towers as well.
> 
> 
> I lived through 4 days of no power in the early 90's after a micro-burst hit Euclid. The landline never lost it's dial tone the entire time!



Did your phone's central office lose power?


During the blackout in 2003 (which occured just after 4, IIRC), my (whatever name Ohio Bell used in 2003) phone service died by 8 pm. Chances are, my line was not powered from the central office, but at a remote terminal with inadequate backup power. I also think my neighborhood is serviced using a digital loop - it was built out in the mid-90s. Cable voice service just adds another point where backup power is needed (at your home.)


Alltel, Verizon, and T-Mobile cellular service seemed to work throughout the night, but T-Mobile GPRS (internet) stopped working sometime after 6. I'm not sure how other providers fared. I believe that cell site locations can make a difference with reliability - sites with more space can have more backup power than others.


Keep in mind that if you lose power at your home, your cellphone could even be in range of towers that still have power. (Third-party VoIP services can also be used on any broadband connection, too.)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14066354
> 
> 
> I like to point out that technically none of us have cell phones. What we have now are wireless phones using digital technology. But "cell" has become the terminology just like for many a DVR is a "TiVo", or the use of the expression " I Tivo'd that last night."



The cell part of "cellular phone" came from the concept of a cellular network - where the network is divided into cells that each have their own transmitter. This is still the network structure used on modern mobile phone systems. The "cellular band" in the US refers to a specific set of frequencies originally allocated to two companies per market for analog cellular phone service - in this market, they are allocated to Alltel and Verizon. This is still in use as well, although it is primarily (if not all) digital by now.


----------



## nickdawg

Two more channels added to Time Warner:

*PBS World(WVIZ-DT subchannel) at channel 364

*MTV Jams at channel 259.


----------



## hookbill

__________________

6-3-08---The day I officially stopped watching TBS. They went too far w/ Bill Engvall "pausing" Family Guy to advertise his show. TBS thinking they are a network, now THAT'S Very Funny!


nickdawgs sig.










Back in the old days when Atlanta couldn't win a baseball game to save their lives and TBS was still air broadcasting and on cable as WTBS, I remember an article in the Los Angeles Hearld-Examiner that said "TBS must stand for Terrible Baseball Station." Then the Hearld went out of business. The Dodgers won their last World Series in 1988 and the Braves dominated the National League in the 90's.


Well, it was funny at the time. It's like they say "you had to be there."


----------



## nickdawg

Now it stands for "The Bulls*** Station" or "The Bug Station". Their on air practices are terrible. The thing that did them in is pausing another, good show to advertise that abortion known as "The Bill Engvall Show". Very(not)Funny!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14071022
> 
> 
> Two more channels added to Time Warner:
> 
> *PBS World(WVIZ-DT subchannel) at channel 364
> 
> *MTV Jams at channel 259.



Confirming this on the former Adelphia system out of Cleveland...we got both here, too.


----------



## nickdawg

The WVIZ DT subchannel has been up for maybe a week and it still says no guide data. Another channel added on 218 awhile back called Village TV also doesn't have any guide data. MTV Jams just says "MTV Jams".


Get with it Time Warner!!


----------



## hookbill

MTV JAMS has got to be the worst of all the music statons there could be. I'd like to take that station and jam it up MTV where the sun doesn't shine.


But hey, what do I know. I'm just an old guy who thinks Eric Clapton is still a great guitar player, thinks that Aretha Franklin is the Queen of Soul, not Bleach blonde Beyond me....I mean Beyonce or whatever her name is. I have to listen to XM to hear any good new music.


But "Time Warner - We think like you do" apparently thinks this is what I want.


----------



## kosar

Channel 19 HD Down Until 4PM today. I called the station and confirmed this. Interesting...


----------



## kosar

My signal on channel 5 has been fluctuating heavily the past few days, even weeks, possibly. From completely out, to in the 90s. I first put this in back in November of 2007 and I haven't had an issue until now. I have Dish Network with OTA antenna.


I have a Channel Master StealthAntenna 3038. Ialso have a Sony Surround Sound system with a lot of wiring behind the TV. At first, I thought the wiring was causing some interference, but after screwing around with moving wires for the past few hours, I don't think it's that.


Channel 8, Fox, is a full 100 strength, and Channels 43 and 55 are in the 90s. Channel 3 is in the 70s, like it has always been for me, but drops now every once in a while. Channel 19 is usually strong, but I confirmed they are down today until 4PM.


Any suggestions why I'm having some issues now? Thanks for the help!


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/14077385
> 
> 
> My signal on channel 5 has been fluctuating heavily the past few days, even weeks, possibly. From completely out, to in the 90s. I first put this in back in November of 2007 and I haven't had an issue until now. I have Dish Network with OTA antenna.
> 
> 
> I have a Channel Master StealthAntenna 3038. Ialso have a Sony Surround Sound system with a lot of wiring behind the TV. At first, I thought the wiring was causing some interference, but after screwing around with moving wires for the past few hours, I don't think it's that.
> 
> 
> Channel 8, Fox, is a full 100 strength, and Channels 43 and 55 are in the 90s. Channel 3 is in the 70s, like it has always been for me, but drops now every once in a while. Channel 19 is usually strong, but I confirmed they are down today until 4PM.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions why I'm having some issues now? Thanks for the help!



FWIW, Channel 5 does that to me occasionally as well. I know it has to be something tangible, but just haven't been able to figure it out. Not sure if it's multipath issues, signal fluctuations due to the weather, or something else. Whatever it is, when it happens, the condition seems to last for at least a week or two (or more). It's happened in both winter and the summer (which I think would rule out foliage alone as the culprit). To resolve, I just have to reorient the antenna and 5 comes in fine. The problem is that the reception on the other channels is then compromised. Then one day it just seems to fix itself.


----------



## nickdawg









Channel 5 is completely down now. There wasn't any audio during Jeopardy! and then they had a graphic up stating they have audio difficulties. Then it blacked out and now we have crappy, fuzzy sound with a green screen. Something is really effed up. A weather cut in just came on and they can't even show that. They are just pathetic.

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO THEM TO THROW BACK TO THE SD FEED???


EDIT: 8:09PM: They're back on the air, with some audio interference and with the "Power of 5 HD" weather graphics exploding out of the normal viewing area. The map is over the sidebar??


----------



## hookbill

I've been observing these things for the past 3 years. Many of things that I thought were broadcast problems turned out to be the SA 8300, in my case and I just accepted it.


Now after having a different DVR I am able to see what you guys talk about from time to time. I'm a bit surprised at some of the emotion that gets stirred up about some of these problems, and yes, I complain as well I just recently made a comment about FOX 8 having issues.


IMHO what we do get now is so very far superior to what we use to get we've all gotten a bit too fussy. Yes, there are going to be problems from time to time but at least it's not a screen full of snow. It's just that, well, s**t happens.


It's not perfect but hey it's way better then what we had before.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14063574
> 
> 
> I remember that micro-burst. I was living there also and I was also without power for 4 days. I remember walking around the streets the next day, assessing the wind damage, and I found an electrical insulator on the ground that had been ripped off a telephone pole. I still have that insulator as a reminder.



I think everybody was walking around Euclid, stunned! A huge tree in Sims Park was uprooted leaving a huge crater where it once stood.


In my driveway I found a headless fish (we lived SOUTH of Lakeshore), also there were shards of aluminum and fiberglass from the Horizion House's elevator shaft.


Ironically, some friends just over the city limits in Cleveland never lost power - they had Muny Light! CEI customers in their neighborhood lost power but they never lost it. Crews were brought in from Toledo that started messing with Muny Light's lines. They were unfamiliar dealing with parallel power company lines.


Four days without electricity is a strange feeling. It almost seemed like we were suddenly in a 3rd world country.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14081684
> 
> 
> IMHO what we do get now is so very far superior to what we use to get we've all gotten a bit too fussy. Yes, there are going to be problems from time to time but at least it's not a screen full of snow. It's just that, well, s**t happens.
> 
> 
> It's not perfect but hey it's way better then what we had before.



I couldn't have said it better myself, Hookbill. Considering the incredible complexity of modern broadcasting, it still amazes me at times that it works at all. This is not a slam on broadcasters at all; I'm just saying that we sometimes lose appreciation for what we really have.


This comes from a person who was waaaaaay impressed the very first time I saw a program in color.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14082520
> 
> 
> Four days without electricity is a strange feeling. It almost seemed like we were suddenly in a 3rd world country.



Yes, I remember having that feeling. It certainly made me appreciate the power once it came back on!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14083928
> 
> 
> Yes, I remember having that feeling. It certainly made me appreciate the power once it came back on!



That happened to us 3 years ago right after we moved into the area. My wife was crying on the fourth day. Then it happened again during the early Spring with wet snow.


That's when we decided to buy a natural gas powered generator. Of course since we bought the generator the longest power outage has been about 8 hours. Still, nice to have one. AC and heat works and most importantly my TiVo S3 continues to record programs. And my whole entertainment system works as well as my computer without interuption because it's hooked up to a UPS. It takes a few minutes before the generator turns on.


The room where the TiVo HD however does not get power and is hooked up to a UPS so when power goes in that room I usually end up hooking it up to an extension cord to the hall way and turning it off. Otherwise it makes this disturbing clicking noise and beeps constantly until the battery dies.


Edited to add: On that occasion where the heavy wet snow caused the power to go out for four days on the fourth day I went to the Bertram Hotel which is about a mile away on Aurora Rd. in Aurora. I told them the situation and they gave us a room for only $75.00. The room they gave us was actually a huge meeting room.


I took a shower and went home and wouldn't you know it, the power was back on! I went back to the Bertram and said I wanted to pay for the room. The girl at the front desk said "but you didn't spend the night." I said I know but I did take a shower so I did use the room. She said, "that's OK. I'm not going to charge you anything."


So if you ever have someone looking for a really nice hotel in the Eastern part of our area, please recommend the Bertram. I have stayed there before and it's a nice hotel. And what can you say about a business that takes the concerns of the community and acts so kindly. If only all businesses acted like that.......


And one more thing. Check out the bar and their "martini club." They have something like one hundred different martinis!


----------



## hookbill

I just found out that the Tribe is going out to play against the Dodgers next week, 3 game series! This is a real treat for me as I never get to see the Dodgers anymore and it will be in HD.


Dodgers are 31 wins 37 losses. Tribe is 32 wins 36 losses.


Two not so great teams perhaps this year but hey lets have some fun and let the trash talk begin. I'll enjoy watching my Dodgers kick the Tribes butt in HD. Matter of fact, since it's at beautiful Dodger Stadium I'll even predict a sweep.


For what it's worth, Progressive Field is a better ball park but only slightly. But the Dodgers kick but on hot dogs with their Dodger Dogs.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14081684
> 
> 
> IMHO what we do get now is so very far superior to what we use to get we've all gotten a bit too fussy. Yes, there are going to be problems from time to time but at least it's not a screen full of snow. It's just that, well, s**t happens.
> 
> 
> It's not perfect but hey it's way better then what we had before.



Remember back 30 years ago when the screen would totally go blank or they'd put up the "Technical Difficulties Please Stand By" for 30 min to an hour at a time?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/14085844
> 
> 
> Remember back 30 years ago when the screen would totally go blank or they'd put up the "Technical Difficulties Please Stand By" for 30 min to an hour at a time?



Yep. And the color tv thing too.


I never owned a color TV until I was 32. My parents always had black and white.


Then we had this remote that would change channels and turn on and off by sound. You could also do it with jingling your keys.


----------



## hookbill

OK I know this is not sports talk, we talk local HD broadcasting here. I happened to notice in last nights local HD broadcast of Cleveland vs San Diego the Tribe once again blew it in the 10th inning. Grand Slam. By a former Indian!


Now as far as I can tell the pq was great. I could clearly see that ball fly over the wall at the Jake, and I don't like calling it Progressive Field.


Come on Tribe fans. It's Fathers Day! A great day to put those giant things that you guys seem to like so much that look like hot dogs on the grill (brots?) turn on that HD television STAY HOME or go to the ball park if you want to go some where. Get behind the Tribe.


San Diego is a very nice town but unfortunately the Padres are very evil. Look what they did to the Tribe last night! OK, we all know there is like 2 good pitchers on the team and no closers with a damn but still if we put our minds together we can prevent something like this from happening again today.


Now I can understand perhaps why you did not rally behind my request to watch in HD (staying on topic) the Lakers and Celtics. Who the heck can stay up two teams you really don't care about. And from what I understand WEWS has had broadcast problems, and I know you wanted in your heart to support me because I know you hate the Celtics. Lakers blew a 24 point lead. They will probably not win. I just want you to know I don't blame you guys for that.










And how can you guys allow me to post my earlier post saying that the Dodgers will sweep Cleveland, in HD, without a single response? No wonder this town can't win a championship! At least they can't win one in HD.










Dad's this is YOUR day and you should spend it in front of your High Definition Television Set with your kids running around playing outside and your wife serving you snacks while we all root for the Tribe to beat the Padres. Yes, I know it's American League Baseball and it's kind of boring but hey, you gotta put your support behind your home team.


Then we can discuss the pq, the sound, and all that other stuff after the game as well. Stay right on topic, you see?


Go Tribe, today in HD on STO!


----------



## kosar

Cool. I was hoping it wasn't just me with the Channel 5 problems.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/14085844
> 
> 
> Remember back 30 years ago when the screen would totally go blank or they'd put up the "Technical Difficulties Please Stand By" for 30 min to an hour at a time?



I remember seeing this one .







Those old TK-41s were beasts. Hundreds of pounds of tubes and other components.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kosar* /forum/post/14088073
> 
> 
> Cool. I was hoping it wasn't just me with the Channel 5 problems.



I got a *BIG* Channel 5 porblem. Those bass turds moved last night's movie Monsters Inc.(in HD) to this afternoon in favor of showing local crap programming to see more commercials. Thanks, I just now found out that it was moved and missed more than half!! Class act, 5!! With the prgramming changes and technical problems and that pathetic Power of 5 Terrorist weatherman, I'll bet Miss Fuldheim is turning in her grave!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14089380
> 
> 
> I got a *BIG* Channel 5 porblem. Those bass turds moved last night's movie Monsters Inc.(in HD) to this afternoon in favor of showing local crap programming to see more commercials. Thanks, I just now found out that it was moved and missed more than half!! Class act, 5!! With the prgramming changes and technical problems and that pathetic Power of 5 Terrorist weatherman, I'll bet Miss Fuldheim is turning in her grave!!



You see last night they were showing this thing called the NBA FINALS. It started at 9:00 pm.


Now that MIGHT have been the reason they moved your show.


And now we have the Terrorist weatherman. Nickdawg, you just keep them coming. You, my friend (well most of the time) are a trip!


----------



## jtscherne

Sorry, Hook. There was no NBA game last night. They play tonight.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14089546
> 
> *You see last night they were showing this thing called the NBA FINALS. It started at 9:00 pm.*
> 
> Now that MIGHT have been the reason they moved your show.
> 
> 
> And now we have the Terrorist weatherman. Nickdawg, you just keep them coming. You, my friend (well most of the time) are a trip!



Last night was Saturday. NBA finals continue TONIGHT. The movie Monsters Inc. was the ABC/Disney movie of the week. WEWS dumped it to show Cash Explosion, Academic Challenge, Camp Adventures and ReGenesis.


And yes, Mr Johnson is the terrorist weather man. "The sky is falling, the world is gonna end!! All because there is a cloud over Seneca county!!!"


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14089693
> 
> 
> Last night was Saturday. NBA finals continue TONIGHT. The movie Monsters Inc. was the ABC/Disney movie of the week. WEWS dumped it to show Cash Explosion, Academic Challenge, Camp Adventures and ReGenesis.



And anyone who watches television would have seen this in their guide a week or more ahead of time. There was no reason not to know that Monsters Inc would be shown on Sunday afternoon -- and in HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14089693
> 
> 
> And yes, Mr Johnson is the terrorist weather man. "The sky is falling, the world is gonna end!! All because there is a cloud over Seneca county!!!"



A couple of summers ago I remember watching him while a large thunderstorm was approaching. He was almost jumping out of his skin, barking about the fact that their doppler was showing the most intense area of rain as purple. "Look people, we've got purple rain!" Sheesh.


I used to like 5's weather coverage. They always went wall to wall whenever a serious storm was approaching, so I could count on them to capture every detail and show it to us. Somewhere along the line though, they seem to have confused thoroughness with the need to be alarmist.


Personally I'd rather be _prepared, not scared,_ y'know?


----------



## dleising

Did anybody get a "Civil Alert Message" on your TW box at around 9:45 tonight?


----------



## paule123

NBA Finals game Sunday night on WEWS - anyone else noticing horrible audio ? I can really hear it on the commercials. Sounds like a transistor radio cranked way up.


Of course now that I type this the problem seems to have gone away.










Edit: Nope, audio problem is still there. I think it was the locally inserted commercials that sounded ok, but the national feed is still screwed up.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14091172
> 
> 
> NBA Finals game Sunday night on WEWS - anyone else noticing horrible audio ? I can really hear it on the commercials. Sounds like a transistor radio cranked way up.
> 
> 
> Of course now that I type this the problem seems to have gone away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Nope, audio problem is still there. I think it was the locally inserted commercials that sounded ok, but the national feed is still screwed up.



This has been going on since at least Friday. Noticed it during network programming like 20/20 and AFV on Friday. Sounds like we're listening to TV through a CB radio. I noticed it again tonight during the immy Kimmel pre game show. I have noticed local SD commercials are fine. I'm surprised they don't throw back to SD. It was awful.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I too was looking forward to watching Monsters Inc in HD. I think they are pricks for pulling it. I was ready to sit down and enjoy it on Father's Day with my 1 and 3 yr old boys. I also think it is rediculous to say that we should check the schedule to make sure they didn't change it. Excuse me for expecting them to have it on after I saw 2 different commercials advertising the airing of the movie in HD... and I don't watch a lot of "television programming" so I'm sure there were a lot more than 2 plugs for it.

Fortunately I have a very nice home theater setup including the best upscaling dvd player on the market. I also have Monsters Inc on dvd so we were able to watch it anyway and it looked pretty damn good. I would have liked to have seen it in HD though.




Also HOOKBILL, I believe no one has replied to your "baseball challenge" because they know how full of crap you are. The Indians record does not reflect their talent. I have no doubt that they will walk all over your precious Dodgers. There's a reason why they call 'em the Dodgers... because they like to dodge talent.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14091631
> 
> 
> I too was looking forward to watching Monsters Inc in HD. I think they are pricks for pulling it. I was ready to sit down and enjoy it on Father's Day with my 1 and 3 yr old boys. I also think it is rediculous to say that we should check the schedule to make sure they didn't change it. Excuse me for expecting them to have it on after I saw 2 different commercials advertising the airing of the movie in HD... and I don't watch a lot of "television programming" so I'm sure there were a lot more than 2 plugs for it.
> 
> Fortunately I have a very nice home theater setup including the best upscaling dvd player on the market. I also have Monsters Inc on dvd so we were able to watch it anyway and it looked pretty damn good. I would have liked to have seen it in HD though.



They have a history of being pricks. Not the first good ABC movie that has been pulled only to be replaced with garbage. It was advertised on TV as well as the ABC website Saturday at 8pm. Who the hell looks for the ABC Saturday movie on a Sunday afternoon? Who the hell puts the ABC Saturday movie on a Sunday afternoon?


You were probably better off watching it on DVD. By the time I tuned in around 5pm, the movie was gone and there was John Goodman talking about Disney Parks and other Pixar shorts and commercials. 480i would be acceptable if it were commercial free and bug free. Plus we had the power of 5 crap at the top of the screen.


I agree 100% Mr. Pants. Why should we have to double check the TV listings for network programming advertised at a set time by the network? I think it's time to get a good antenna and try to pull in WYTV-DT(ABC from Youngstown). I never see other programming replacing ABC programming there.


----------



## Smarty-pants

While we are bashing local television broadcasting...









When the heck did Saturday and Sunday daytime tv become a wasteland of CRAP?









Other than the sports airings, there is absolutly nothing on! Infomercials and JUNK! No longer can I turn on Saturday moring cartoons for my boys. I have to resort to either watching something on dvd that they've already watched many times before, OR, pay $60 a month for expanded basic cable (


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, no cable. That must suck.


And all the shows they do have are on EARLY in the morning(like 6 or 7AM). Hannah Montana is at 7 AM!!! Then the afternoon is full of paid programming(especially if you are WUAB).


I remember not too long ago there was something on to watch. There were afternoon movies or more syndicated shows like sitcom or drama reruns. Now many stations run paid programs until the 6pm news.


And don't get me started on TV today. The best days of cartoons/kids shows are behind us. The best shows were on in the 90s. I look at whats on today and cannot believe some of the retarded crap that is on the air today. I was up early one morning and stumbled across this HD acid trip on PBS HD-(channel 410) called "Boobah". Wow. TV was much better back in the day.

__________________

Proud Owner of the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD

Tivo S3HD? Purchasing equipment plus additional service fees and hardware? Don't make me laugh!!

Proud Flock Leader of 50 Parrots

MY NAME IS NOT NICK (but you can call me dawg)


----------



## Smarty-pants

No expanded cable is no big deal to me. Usually when the tv is on, the kids are watching educational programming and such. When the kids are not around, there are other things that need done because the damn kids take up so much time and attention.







To fill in the gaps there are a few shows that the wife and I like to watch, but that's it for tv. I've got a wall of hunrdeds of dvds for us to watch too, so the movies are more to my style and liking. I suppose I could find a few more shows to watch if I have another hundred channels to watch, but it's just not worth it to me for the price paid.

(


----------



## nickdawg

DVDs are better as they do not have the annoying bugs/snipes like most cable channels have plus they are uncensored and commercial free.


I could consider throwing in the towel on cable due to the price and the lack of HD content for that price. And many of the channels we do have are crap. The HD channels use stretchovision resulting in a crappy distorted picture and the other SD channels load the screen with bugs and snipes, ruining the show or movie on. And DVD PQ can be better than SD digital cable.

__________________

Proud Owner of the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD

Tivo S3HD? Purchasing equipment plus additional service fees and hardware? Don't make me laugh!!

Proud Flock Leader of 50 Parrots

MY NAME IS NOT NICK (but you can call me dawg)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14091631
> 
> 
> Also HOOKBILL, I believe no one has replied to your "baseball challenge" because they know how full of crap you are. The Indians record does not reflect their talent. I have no doubt that they will walk all over your precious Dodgers. There's a reason why they call 'em the Dodgers... because they like to dodge talent.



Well, what do you know we got one person in the entire area that will speak up for their team!










I got my dates confused on the NBA thing. But hell, that's not unusual I'm old.


Wayne Dawson is on the air right now talking about how he really doesn't care about the Finals. I don't blame him.


It will be tough if not impossible for the Lakers to win tonight. Or is it tomorrow night?


Nickdawg, try channel 3. They "inform you, not alarm you." Or is that what 5 says? Or maybe 19? I know it isn't channel 8.


As you can all tell I got my stuff together today!


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14085946
> 
> 
> Then we had this remote that would change channels and turn on and off by sound. You could also do it with jingling your keys.



I believe that was a Zenith. It had metal tubes in the remote that would be struck when you pushed a button (more like a plunger) and the TV would respond by turning off/on and changing channels with a motorized turret tuner. Some models added volume up/down controls too. They drove the dogs wild, as many of the tomes were above 15 kHz.!!


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14091631
> 
> 
> I too was looking forward to watching Monsters Inc in HD. I think they are pricks for pulling it. I was ready to sit down and enjoy it on Father's Day with my 1 and 3 yr old boys. I also think it is rediculous to say that we should check the schedule to make sure they didn't change it. Excuse me for expecting them to have it on after I saw 2 different commercials advertising the airing of the movie in HD... and I don't watch a lot of "television programming" so I'm sure there were a lot more than 2 plugs for it.
> 
> Fortunately I have a very nice home theater setup including the best upscaling dvd player on the market. I also have Monsters Inc on dvd so we were able to watch it anyway and it looked pretty damn good. I would have liked to have seen it in HD though.



If you were looking forward to watching "Monsters Inc" on Father's Day, that's exactly when it was on -- Father's Day at 3:00!!!

The station did not "pull" the movie. It was always scheduled to run on Sunday afternoon. However, the networks frequently change programming at the last minute which has nothing to do with the local station so anyone relying on a promo or just "expecting it" to be on must realize that this why we have all these fancy electronic program guides in the first place.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14091703
> 
> 
> I agree 100% Mr. Pants. Why should we have to double check the TV listings for network programming advertised at a set time by the network? I think it's time to get a good antenna and try to pull in WYTV-DT(ABC from Youngstown). I never see other programming replacing ABC programming there.



So I guess all of those primetime preemptions of NBC programming by WKYC by Indians games is OK even though they wouldn't be listed on the NBC website. Or how about the Browns games that WJW will be showing in place of FOX primetime programming this fall? That won't be on the network website either. It amazes me how people plan their TV viewing based on assumption.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I think it's time to get a good antenna and try to pull in WYTV-DT(ABC from Youngstown). I never see other programming replacing ABC programming there.



Unfortunately, WYTV is the weakest signal of the 3 Youngstown stations. Unless you live in Portage County or perhaps as far as Solon, forget getting ch 33 on a regular basis.


WKBN-DT OTOH rocks! I get them 24/7 with an indoor antenna in Parma! In addition they have WYFX on their subchannel, so sometimes you can get extra NFL games from FOX (in SD, but hey it's a "poor-man's NFL ST).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14092500
> 
> 
> I believe that was a Zenith. It had metal tubes in the remote that would be struck when you pushed a button (more like a plunger) and the TV would respond by turning off/on and changing channels with a motorized turret tuner. Some models added volume up/down controls too. They drove the dogs wild, as many of the tomes were above 15 kHz.!!



Zenith Space Command!

Yep, I had one of those as a kid too! My parakeet could change the channels by hitting his beak on his cage (no joke, this actually happened).


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14094166
> 
> 
> Zenith Space Command!
> 
> Yep, I had one of those as a kid too! My parakeet could change the channels by hitting his beak on his cage (no joke, this actually happened).



Yes, I remember it well. I would come home at night after work and find the tv on. I thought maybe I had a friendly ghost that was playing tricks on me.

One night I was reading the paper (tv off) when the phone

rang. Guess what, the tv turned itself on. I solved the problem by wrapping some black tape around the offending bell in the phone. No ghost after all.


Ben Music


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14092204
> 
> 
> Wayne Dawson is on the air right now talking about how he really doesn't care about the Finals. I don't blame him.
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, try channel 3. They "inform you, not alarm you." Or is that what 5 says? Or maybe 19? I know it isn't channel 8.
> 
> 
> As you can all tell I got my stuff together today!



Channel 3 is the "Prepare not scare" station. I like watching Betsy Kling
























As for the finals, I was hoping that would be over last night. I want my Boston Legal back on Tuesday!! I could give a rat'[email protected]$$ about who wins. That's all I have to say about that!!


And no comment on my new signature???
















__________________

Proud Owner of the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD

Tivo S3HD? Purchasing equipment plus additional service fees and hardware? Don't make me laugh!!

Proud Flock Leader of 50 Parrots

MY NAME IS NOT NICK (but you can call me dawg)


----------



## Smarty-pants

Man you guys never let up off of each other do you?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/14093130
> 
> 
> So I guess all of those primetime preemptions of NBC programming by WKYC by Indians games is OK even though they wouldn't be listed on the NBC website. Or how about the Browns games that WJW will be showing in place of FOX primetime programming this fall? That won't be on the network website either. It amazes me how people plan their TV viewing based on assumption.



That's what happens when you live in a small city. In a big city like L.A. that never happens because all stations are networked owned. Sports teams play on local stations. And of course there are no football teams in L.A.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/14093130
> 
> 
> So I guess all of those primetime preemptions of NBC programming by WKYC by Indians games is OK even though they wouldn't be listed on the NBC website. Or how about the Browns games that WJW will be showing in place of FOX primetime programming this fall? That won't be on the network website either. It amazes me how people plan their TV viewing based on assumption.



At least WKYC is interrupting repeats or expendable reality programming and putting something of worth in its place. In a sports town like Cleveland few, if any, people would object to a show like "America's Got Talent" being bumped in favor of the Indians. WKYC's practices are better. They rarely interrupt good programming. If they do interrupt new programming, it is promptly shown later that night and the time is advertised.


WJW has shown the Browns in the past. The interrupted FOX programming was shown later that night, to be watched or DVRed.


You cannot compare bumping network programming for local sports to bumping network programming for garbage. How do we the viewers benefit from crap like "Cash Explosion" in primetime and "Camp Adventures"? How is that better than an ABC movie and why does it deserve primetime air time? WEWS and WOIO are on the same level. Both have a bad habit of interrupting network programming for nonsense like paid programming.


And why is it a surprise how we plan our TV viewing? It is not only based on an "assumption". It is based on a network TV schedule. A schedule other decent TV stations leave alone. Yet 5 has to be different. They have to move network programming around. And that "assumption" should be true. If ABC runs countless promos that a movie will be shown on Saturday is it really wrong that I should expect the movie to be shown on Saturday?


Good work!!














Keep alienating viewers!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14097026
> 
> 
> That's what happens when you live in a small city. In a big city like L.A. that never happens because all stations are networked owned. Sports teams play on local stations. And of course there are no football teams in L.A.



Cleveland is hardly a "small city". We are number 17.


As far as owned and operated, I wish we would get more of those here. Current managment is terrible. Especially at a certain, cough cough abc cough cough, station.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14097232
> 
> 
> Cleveland is hardly a "small city". We are number 17.
> 
> 
> As far as owned and operated, I wish we would get more of those here. Current managment is terrible. Especially at a certain, cough cough abc cough cough, station.



Trust me. This is a small city compared to L.A. or New York.


Long before cable and UHF L.A. had channels 2(CBS), 4(NBC), 5(KTLA), 7(ABC), 9(then KHJ-TV), 11(KTTV), and 13(KCOP). 3 networks, 4 independents. No PBS back then. Dodgers were on Channel 11, Angels on Channel 5. No home games were shown, only away games.


How many did Cleveland have?


----------



## nickdawg

WUAB independent showed the Indians. Plus we had 61 and 67 as independents as well. Yes, nowhere near as many as LA, but not like Youngstown or another small market with only 3 main stations.


----------



## jtscherne

Actually the Indians used to be on WJW before Channel 43.


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of WJW there appears to be no FOX HD tonight. The beginning of House said FOX Widescreen but no widescreen.


----------



## smoti17

It is not really true to say that DVDs are "commercial free". Every time I buy one I have to sit through a pile of trailers, studio logos, FBI warnings etc etc, many of which you can't skip. I am sure it is getting worse :-(

At least compared to most HD content they have proper captions on them, though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14097364
> 
> 
> WUAB independent showed the Indians. Plus we had 61 and 67 as independents as well. Yes, nowhere near as many as LA, but not like Youngstown or another small market with only 3 main stations.



You're counting UHF. I wanted to know how many before UHF.


L.A. Had 3 UHF stations in the early days, onew was PBS and the other was a Spanish station. There was also channel 22 but I don't remember looking at that much.


Also when you talk about size of a city itself, L.A. is just plain huge. Like in New York you have a huge mass of people in a kind of small area. L.A. You can get on the 405 in Van Nuys, drive through Santa Monica, Culver City, back in L.A. then Hawthone, Lawndale, Redondo Beach, Torrance, Carson City then get on the 411 still going South and and up at the docks of San Pedro....Which is another district of the City of Los Angeles.


Now that drive is a good 50 miles from one end of L.A. to another. Then you could go West to East, Start at Venice Beach which is another district of City of L.A., Go through Culver City, Back in L.A. travel through another bunch of districts of L.A. go through Downtown L.A. and finally end up in East L.A.


It's just really huge. Essetially it's like the size of going from Canton to Cleveland and maybe from Chagrin Falls to Toledo.


Cleveland itself is not that big.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14097635
> 
> 
> Speaking of WJW there appears to be no FOX HD tonight. The beginning of House said FOX Widescreen but no widescreen.



Yes, I noticed that last night. The first few seconds of House were in HD and then it reverted to SD and stayed there, even with the WJW-1 HD bug in the normal location beyond the SD program. Later, I watched an older Bones that was recorded a couple weeks ago and it was going in and out of HD, but there were constant weather warnings on the screen that night...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14099741
> 
> 
> Yes, I noticed that last night. The first few seconds of House were in HD and then it reverted to SD and stayed there, even with the WJW-1 HD bug in the normal location beyond the SD program. Later, I watched an older Bones that was recorded a couple weeks ago and it was going in and out of HD, but there were constant weather warnings on the screen that night...



These are all reruns. Maybe that's why they are not broadcasting in HD?


Nickdawg may not realize it because probably his SA 8300 failed to record the shows when they were originally shown.

















Sorry, dawg...couldn't resist. I know you're DVR is dependable. You probably didn't have Bones as one of your scheduled recordings.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14099856
> 
> 
> These are all reruns. Maybe that's why they are not broadcasting in HD?
> 
> 
> Nickdawg may not realize it because probably his SA 8300 failed to record the shows when they were originally shown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, dawg...couldn't resist. I know you're DVR is dependable. You probably didn't have Bones as one of your scheduled recordings.



It IS a dependable DVR. I just didn't watch them during the season b/c 2.5 Men and The Big Bang Theory was on. I didn't record either b/c of a lack of time to watch and the fact that HD recordings take a HUGE bite out of hard drive space.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14103773
> 
> 
> It IS a dependable DVR. I just didn't watch them during the season b/c 2.5 Men and The Big Bang Theory was on. I didn't record either b/c of a lack of time to watch and the fact that HD recordings take a HUGE bite out of hard drive space.



When I had the SA 8300 I had a 300 mgb eSATA hooked up. Can't you use eSATA?


By the way for whatever reason that was one of the causes of my gettng partial recordings. It was even the recommended one for the SA 8300.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14105224
> 
> 
> When I had the SA 8300 I had a 300 mgb eSATA hooked up. Can't you use eSATA?
> 
> 
> By the way for whatever reason that was one of the causes of my gettng partial recordings. It was even the recommended one for the SA 8300.



How long ago was that? I'm thinking there have been firmware revisions since then.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14105636
> 
> 
> How long ago was that? I'm thinking there have been firmware revisions since then.



Oh yes, there has. But the one time they did do a firmware update it still didn't solve the problem. Then they panicked because there was another problem caused by FOX when commercials came on and pulled the updade.


All in all it was changed for about 7 days and I still had the partial recording problem. What was so weird about all that was that not everyone had it, but some did.


The same thing happens with TiVo. Problems pop up for some people and others say no never.


----------



## nickdawg

WKYC, thanks for being the quality, classy station by playing tonight's Jay Leno from the beginning. At least their interruption was for something!


----------



## Inundated

My favorite Mark Johnson story is the time he spent roughly a minute looking at a storm of some sort (can't remember if it was snow or rain), and got all excited because it would eventually be heading to Northeast Ohio, from NORTH DAKOTA.


No, I'm not making that up. The man needs to get out more, and not in the storms.


OK, hookbill, we get it...L.A. is big and Cleveland is small.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14112032
> 
> 
> OK, hookbill, we get it...L.A. is big and Cleveland is small.



Yeah but L.A. doesn't have all of you guys that make this forum so fun and educational. Well maybe they do, I don't know I don't go over there but there has got to be only one nickdawg!










I'll bet most of us in this forum don't live in Cleveland anyway. I wish I could have seen some HD broadcast last time I was out there, the bar I hung out had HD TV's but they didn't have service.


Time Warner is their provider.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14112032
> 
> 
> My favorite Mark Johnson story is the time he spent roughly a minute looking at a storm of some sort (can't remember if it was snow or rain), and got all excited because it would eventually be heading to Northeast Ohio, from NORTH DAKOTA.
> 
> 
> No, I'm not making that up. The man needs to get out more, and not in the storms.



IIRC, his first few days on the job after replacing Brad Sussman (who was a very good weatherman, IMO) he made some really stupid, tasteless joke about people from Parma or something, and I've ignored the guy ever since. I think the station must have got a lot of complaints because he toned down his antics quite a bit after that.


----------



## ErieMarty

anyone hear of any new HD Channels being added to Time Warner Weak HD Lineup.


I wonder how often they will add new channels and what has to happen for them to do it. As they are so far behing Dish/Direct in HD content.


Just curious


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14112032
> 
> 
> My favorite Mark Johnson story is the time he spent roughly a minute looking at a storm of some sort (can't remember if it was snow or rain), and got all excited because it would eventually be heading to Northeast Ohio, from NORTH DAKOTA.
> 
> 
> No, I'm not making that up. The man needs to get out more, and not in the storms.



The TV doppler weather radar wars ... click on "watch this movie."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14112734
> 
> 
> The TV doppler weather radar wars ... click on "watch this movie."



Pretty good!


----------



## hookbill

OK since we are on a Mark Johnson bashing mode let me point out his vanity. When WEWS first went to HD he talked about how it showed so much more detail the regular broadcast television. He mentioned you can really see the grey in his hair.


A couple of weeks later I noticed no more grey hair.


"Just for Men?"


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14113159
> 
> 
> OK since we are on a Mark Johnson bashing mode let me point out his vanity. When WEWS first went to HD he talked about how it showed so much more detail the regular broadcast television. He mentioned you can really see the grey in his hair.
> 
> 
> A couple of weeks later I noticed no more grey hair.
> 
> 
> "Just for Men?"



It's fairly common for the corporate offices to monitor their local stations' newscasts from afar. I'm guessing that someone from Scripps Networks tapped him on the shoulder about that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14113208
> 
> 
> It's fairly common for the corporate offices to monitor their local stations' newscasts from afar. I'm guessing that someone from Scripps Networks tapped him on the shoulder about that.



Maybe. But I don't see what the big deal is. yes, I know you have to "look good" to be on television but his grey didn't change his looks any, you could just see it for the first time. And that was on my old CRT Sony Wega. I do admit that my picture on my LCD LG is much sharper and more defined so maybe it was worst then it appeared.


Anyway men, as a general rule of thumb don't really care much about grey in the hair. I admit that there was a short time in the 90's when I tried to get it out of my mustache because for whatever reason it seems the hair you grow last is the first to grow grey.


It was more trouble then it was worth, I felt.


And Andre Berneir, I think he's like 49 and he's got more grey then I do. My wife says he looks older then me.


And Dick Goddard. Well, we all know what that is on his head.

















He had me fooled though. When I first got here I didn't realize it was a wig until I saw a picture of him in the Plain-Dealer without it.










HD really brings out the worst in older women. When we got the LG my wife said she no longer felt so bad about the way she looked. Mariska Hargitay is a great example. First she grew out her hair which I thought made her look beautiful, then she cut it and I thought she looked so-so but I like women with long hair. However after getting the LG it is very apparent that she has quite a few wrinkles.


James Woods is another one that surprised me. Now I can't really say that I guy is "handsome" because I don't know, hell I think I look good and all you gotta do is take a look at the TiVo forum to see some old pictures of me.







But Woods has so many wrinkles and other types of "stuff" on his face that we didn't notice before with the Sony Wega.


Marg Helgenberger, still looks great for her age! But I'll bet she's had some work done. Mariska should consider that.


Melissa Mack is my vote for best looking woman on the news, locally. She's gone from a "little girl" type look to "hot babe" in the last year. I'm also fond of Stacy Frey. I'd rather have her then either Stephanie or Tracy as the anchor person.


I'm partial to brunettes.


I just looked at the picture they have of Melissa on FOX 8's website. That does not do her justice at all!


----------



## nickdawg

If you want hot, check out 19 Action News. Weekends are great with Danielle Serino as anchor and Jennifer Harcher on weather.







And I always like 5pm with Sharon Reed




























And of course there's Kimberly Gill on WEWS's Good Morning Cleveland.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14114740
> 
> 
> HD really brings out the worst in older women. When we got the LG my wife said she no longer felt so bad about the way she looked.



Hear, hear. Score one for us regular folks.











> Quote:
> ...But Woods has so many wrinkles and other types of "stuff" on his face that we didn't notice before with the Sony Wega.



It's interesting that one of the qualities of HD that I find surprisingly revealing of facial details isn't the expanded resolution - it's the expanded color palette. In the SD world, most fleshtones tend to have a monochromatic, almost cartoonish look that hides a lot of color gradation in a person's skin. HD's wider palette tends to reveal a lot of subtle tonal information about an individual's face - little brown spots, freckles and the like. A good example is John McCain - he looks very different in HD than in SD. (No, this isn't a political statement - it's an observation of the differences in chroma bandwidth between SD and HD).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14120891
> 
> 
> A good example is John McCain - he looks very different in HD than in SD. (No, this isn't a political statement - it's an observation of the differences in chroma bandwidth between SD and HD).



He is damn scary in HD!! He has puffy cheeks and a turkey gobbler neck. (Not a political statement, just the truth)


I would hate to have to look at his ugly face in HD for the next four years







(OK, maybe that was a little bit of a political statement.







)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14112245
> 
> 
> IIRC, his first few days on the job after replacing Brad Sussman (who was a very good weatherman, IMO) he made some really stupid, tasteless joke about people from Parma or something, and I've ignored the guy ever since. I think the station must have got a lot of complaints because he toned down his antics quite a bit after that.



Who did he think he was? Ghoulardi? Big Chuck?











He thinks he's funny, that's the problem. That and his excitement over anything remotely resembling bad weather. Yesterday, he was positively giddy that we could get "severe storms" on Saturday. Bad weather for the weekend, woo hoo!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14114740
> 
> 
> Melissa Mack is my vote for best looking woman on the news, locally. She's gone from a "little girl" type look to "hot babe" in the last year. I'm also fond of Stacy Frey. I'd rather have her then either Stephanie or Tracy as the anchor person.



Melissa was cute and all, when I first saw her, but looked WAY young. I haven't seen her lately. But when I saw her, I thought "she looks like a young teenage girl, is she old enough to be on TV?".


Some pretty women on FOX 8. Of course, one of 'em is the fiancee of the mayor of a certain large Cleveland suburb!


----------



## nickdawg

FOX 8's women are nothing compared to 19


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14122313
> 
> 
> Melissa was cute and all, when I first saw her, but looked WAY young. I haven't seen her lately. But when I saw her, I thought "she looks like a young teenage girl, is she old enough to be on TV?".
> 
> 
> Some pretty women on FOX 8. Of course, one of 'em is the fiancee of the mayor of a certain large Cleveland suburb!



My thoughts exactly! But you should see her a year later.


Maybe it's just the way she wears her hair and make up now, but she seems surprisingly more mature looking.


Hey.....I'm not some kind of sicko, you know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14117896
> 
> 
> If you want hot, check out 19 Action News. Weekends are great with Danielle Serino as anchor and Jennifer Harcher on weather.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I always like 5pm with Sharon Reed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And of course there's Kimberly Gill on WEWS's Good Morning Cleveland.



The website photos probably don't do them justice, but Danielle Serino's shot is kind of sexy looking.







Jennifer Harcher's shot doesn't look so great but she is probably better looking then the web picture. I couldn't find Kimberly Gill, but there are some other nice looking women over there.


But dawg, you know how you and I are and I gotta disagree about Sharon Reed. Nice looking, yes but hot babe....I don't think so. It's kind of funny that on her photo on the web page you can barely see her behind the desk.


I understand however that she has a nice butt.







Too bad they didn't shoot that photo shot she was in in HD.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14121084
> 
> 
> He is damn scary in HD!! He has puffy cheeks and a turkey gobbler neck. (Not a political statement, just the truth)
> 
> 
> I would hate to have to look at his ugly face in HD for the next four years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (OK, maybe that was a little bit of a political statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



So for you, it looks like PQ is significantly more important than content. (Trying to stay on topic ... sort of)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14122867
> 
> 
> So for you, it looks like PQ is significantly more important than content. (Trying to stay on topic ... sort of)



Watch this, I'm really gonna keep it on topic by discussing it as TVs.










As far as "content" and "substance", John McCain is the old B&W TV that has the dial to change channel and the rabbit ear on top. He's the same, old, antiquated product that we've had in the past. His messages are fuzzy and unclear. Not much room for improvement and very bad at using bandwith.


Barack Obama, on the other hand, is the 50 in plasma screen with HDMI and 5.1 surround system with a universal remote that works for everything. He's new, now and happening. The way of the future. He has the ability to manage his bandwith more efficiently and add more in the future. His messages are clear and sharp and he stands out.


Some are hesitant to give up their old TVs. "How's this HDTV supposed to be better?" But eventually they'll see a HDTV-and want it! Once they choose HDTV they'll say, "How did we ever live with that old, outdated thing before? HDTV knows the future!" (said as B&W tv is taken to curb







)


There, I explained the election---all in terms of TV and technology!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14125929
> 
> 
> Watch this, I'm really gonna keep it on topic by discussing it as TVs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as "content" and "substance", John McCain is the old B&W TV that has the dial to change channel and the rabbit ear on top. He's the same, old, antiquated product that we've had in the past. His messages are fuzzy and unclear. Not much room for improvement and very bad at using bandwith.
> 
> 
> Barack Obama, on the other hand, is the 50 in plasma screen with HDMI and 5.1 surround system with a universal remote that works for everything. He's new, now and happening. The way of the future. He has the ability to manage his bandwith more efficiently and add more in the future. His messages are clear and sharp and he stands out.
> 
> 
> Some are hesitant to give up their old TVs. "How's this HDTV supposed to be better?" But eventually they'll see a HDTV-and want it! Once they choose HDTV they'll say, "How did we ever live with that old, outdated thing before? HDTV knows the future!" (said as B&W tv is taken to curb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> There, I explained the election---all in terms of TV and technology!!



You forgot to say "I'm Barrack Obama and I apporve this message."


OMG....nickdawg is Barrack Obama!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14125950
> 
> 
> You forgot to say "I'm Barrack Obama and I apporve this message."
> 
> 
> OMG....nickdawg is Barrack Obama!



That would be awesome!! If I am elected, tax cuts for Tivo and SA8300HD users!!
















___________________

I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14125929
> 
> 
> Watch this, I'm really gonna keep it on topic by discussing it as TVs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as "content" and "substance", John McCain is the old B&W TV that has the dial to change channel and the rabbit ear on top. He's the same, old, antiquated product that we've had in the past. His messages are fuzzy and unclear. Not much room for improvement and very bad at using bandwith.
> 
> 
> Barack Obama, on the other hand, is the 50 in plasma screen with HDMI and 5.1 surround system with a universal remote that works for everything. He's new, now and happening. The way of the future. He has the ability to manage his bandwith more efficiently and add more in the future. His messages are clear and sharp and he stands out.
> 
> 
> Some are hesitant to give up their old TVs. "How's this HDTV supposed to be better?" But eventually they'll see a HDTV-and want it! Once they choose HDTV they'll say, "How did we ever live with that old, outdated thing before? HDTV knows the future!" (said as B&W tv is taken to curb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> There, I explained the election---all in terms of TV and technology!!



Let's see if I can keep this going...


Unfortunately, the BO plasma requires by law that you use it as he sees fit. For instance, there is no satellite and everyone's stuck with TWC cable and their customer service (with only BO-approved channels, of course).


Not only that, but you will be limited to a single government-issued SA8300, since the BO plasma is so expensive for anyone to afford more. Besides, you will be required by law to pay for a BO plasma, TWC and SA8300 for everyone who can't afford it on their own, so your disposable income will be nil. (BO and his cronies will still be OK, by the way.)


Think you can use a Tivo? No chance. Due to lack of government approval, all Tivos in existence will be disconnected from the system, and attempts to reconnect will be criminalized and result in jail time. (I think I may have a chance at getting hook on my side for once.)


The partial truth sounds great (50" plasmas for all!), but the whole truth and actual cost aren't really that realistic. That black and white TV with OTA reception is looking better all the time.


Back at ya.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14126342
> 
> 
> Let's see if I can keep this going...
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the BO plasma requires by law that you use it as he sees fit. For instance, there is no satellite and everyone's stuck with TWC cable and their customer service (with only BO-approved channels, of course).
> 
> 
> Not only that, but you will be limited to a single government-issued SA8300, since the BO plasma is so expensive for anyone to afford more. Besides, you will be required by law to pay for a BO plasma, TWC and SA8300 for everyone who can't afford it on their own, so your disposable income will be nil. (BO and his cronies will still be OK, by the way.)
> 
> 
> Think you can use a Tivo? No chance. Due to lack of government approval, all Tivos in existence will be disconnected from the system, and attempts to reconnect will be criminalized and result in jail time. (I think I may have a chance at getting hook on my side for once.)
> 
> 
> The partial truth sounds great (50" plasmas for all!), but the whole truth and actual cost aren't really that realistic. That black and white TV with OTA reception is looking better all the time.
> 
> 
> Back at ya.



Wait a minute. You seem to be very confused. The current GWB display is the one who takes away freedom of choice and makes it more difficult for those who cannot afford to own a TiVo. The JM is not true HD, he is simply a repackage of the GWB which is really stretch o vision. Like how he stretches the truth when he says he is against war but plans on staying in Iraq until we finish, which we never will. He's a one channel system


The BO is HD but it is not simply plasma. It's also LCD and Projection. It projects peace and harmony, working with our enemies to try to understand our differences while keeping a good working crystal clear picture. The BO does not discriminate against satellite, cable, or OTA. It is a new and clear direction of technology that we must take.


And for those who do not want this new technology, I say if your not part of the solution you're part of the problem.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14126613
> 
> 
> Wait a minute. You seem to be very confused. The current GWB display is the one who takes away freedom of choice and makes it more difficult for those who cannot afford to own a TiVo. The JM is not true HD, he is simply a repackage of the GWB which is really stretch o vision. Like how he stretches the truth when he says he is against war but plans on staying in Iraq until we finish, which we never will. He's a one channel system
> 
> 
> The BO is HD but it is not simply plasma. It's also LCD and Projection. It projects peace and harmony, working with our enemies to try to understand our differences while keeping a good working crystal clear picture. The BO does not discriminate against satellite, cable, or OTA. It is a new and clear direction of technology that we must take.
> 
> 
> And for those who do not want this new technology, I say if your not part of the solution you're part of the problem.



I like the way you think. Maybe not on DVRs, but politics yes. GWB is analog SD. Inefficient and a huge pain in the arse to those who want th technology of the future.







Since the GWB is SD, the JM is like TBS HD: GWB in stretchovision. And we all know that stretchovision makes a TV experience worse than SD!


I love the description of the BO!! The JM is simply 480i, 4x3, CRT. Nothing more, nothing less. THe BO can be Plasma, LCD, Projection; whatever is appropriate for the situation. The BO is 1080p. It supports the new formats that are coming as well as the older formats on some classics that might still work. The JM can handle the new formats as well, but nowhere near as good as a new BO. Plus try running the new software on that old machine!! Not gonna happen(like Navigator on the old boxes!).


The BO is state of the art. No more favoring satellite over OTA or cable. All sources are accpeted and supported at the same time!! They all come together to work towards a common goal: a clean, crystal clear picture to the world. The kind our founding fathers dreamed about. The kind we had before we were all forced-downgraded to the GWB, again like Navigator


----------



## ajstan99

Wow, sounds like a Billy Mays sales pitch (SD infomercial guy) for the BO. It's always the information that he leaves out of the commercial (shipping/extra charges, durability, etc.) that make all the wonderful "free" stuff (but wait, there's more!) not so free and not so wonderful in the real world.


Keep the country safe from enemies (foreign and domestic), and stay out of my pocket. The GWB model has done a remarkable job on the first, and needs to do way better on the second. Unfortunately on the second issue, the GWB model was bad, JM will likely be worse, and comrade BO would be worst of all on both.


Of course, all of this will play out in wonderful HD on all four of our local HD major network channels.


In the spirit of the centrist commentator, Bill O'Reilly, I'll give you two the last word.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14127698
> 
> 
> 
> In the spirit of the centrist commentator, Bill O'Reilly, I'll give you two the last word.




OMFG!!! You're not serious!! Centrist? That guy's DBS dish is definately pointed to the right. Picking up alot of nothing. The fact you mentioned him explains alot.


I don't mind paying. I'd rather pay to give Americans Universal HD service than build transmitter towers in Iraq and give the people at Gitmo the Universal HD service.


JM is an analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker. Loud an whiney with no depth or feeling. BO is the Dolby Digital 3/2.1 broadcast on an great surround system that you can feel when he talks. The floor shakes, sound that gives you goosebumps from the awsomeness---both in quality and substance.


The GWB model has done a great job at stretching American bandwidth thin in Iraq. So much American bandwidth is being used there if we ever needed it here, there wouldn't be enough. And all this bandwidth isn't free. My grandchildren and beyond will be paying for said bandwidth. And the JM model wants to ensure that there will be bandwidth overseas for at least 100 years. The BO model wil make sure that bandwith is returned to domestic use in about 16 months.


----------



## jtscherne

Can we stop the political talk before it gets out of hand? (And it WILL get out of hand!)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14129563
> 
> 
> Can we stop the political talk before it gets out of hand? (And it WILL get out of hand!)



Agreed. We really are not suppose to go there.


So to get back on topic (sort of) is the completion of the conversion for TW completed? And does anyone with a SARA SA 8300 have Navigator software?


----------



## nickdawg

Who's talking political? I was talking about the bandwidht usage and picture quality on the GWB display vs. the BO display.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The GWB will be shut off on January 20th, 2009. $40 Coupons are available for those of you who still use OTA to get your government.


Now that we all know where we stand politically, let's get back on topic!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14129791
> 
> 
> Actually 2009.



February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.


It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be _HD_ on February 17th, which is incorrect. All full-power broadcasters must be transmitting in _digital_, not necessarily in HD. I actually heard one of those "news minutes" recently on network radio where the guy excitedly announced that it's all going to be HD next February (hint - it's the network that's named after a small animal).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14130682
> 
> 
> February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.
> 
> 
> It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be _HD_ on February 17th, which is incorrect. All full-power broadcasters must be transmitting in _digital_, not necessarily in HD. I actually heard one of those "news minutes" recently on network radio where the guy excitedly announced that it's all going to be HD next February (hint - it's the network that's named after a small animal).



I'm guessing they are making such blanket statements cuz the general public is already confused enough on the DTV conversion issue. Getting into "well, most stations will convert to DTV but not all because........" will only confuse people further. To add further confusion I'd guess some of those low power stations may have already converted or will convert by Feb 09, while others will not.

Keep it simple for the masses.










Out of curiosity, what % of US OTA broadcasters are low power stations?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14130682
> 
> 
> February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.
> 
> 
> It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be _HD_ on February 17th, which is incorrect. All full-power broadcasters must be transmitting in _digital_, not necessarily in HD. I actually heard one of those "news minutes" recently on network radio where the guy excitedly announced that it's all going to be HD next February (hint - it's the network that's named after a small animal).



You missed the pun. "GWB" will be shut down on Jan 20th, '09, that is inauguration day for the new president.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14121084
> 
> 
> He is damn scary in HD!! He has puffy cheeks and a turkey gobbler neck. (Not a political statement, just the truth)
> 
> 
> I would hate to have to look at his ugly face in HD for the next four years
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (OK, maybe that was a little bit of a political statement.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I know others have said to "knock off" the politics.


But let me add something: Have some respect. The man is 72, has had cancer, wore his country's uniform for over 20 years; and had the s*** tortured out of him by the NVN's. From the lack of maturity in your comment, I would guess that you are 20 something and spent those years living for yourself. If I'm wrong, stopping acting like it!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14130898
> 
> 
> You missed the pun. "GWB" will be shut down on Jan 20th, '09, that is inauguration day for the new president.



I caught the pun, Michael. Thanks anyway. I'm just trying to keep this thread on the tracks. Sometimes my attempts to do this can be a little clumsy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14130682
> 
> 
> February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.
> 
> 
> It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be _HD_ on February 17th, which is incorrect.




Who says that? I have never heard that. I've heard digital every time and it is the same commercial, or infomercial or notice (whatever) on each channel.


Now you are going to have to figure out a way to record something different on your DVR, VCR or whatever, put in on the computer and prove you're right.


See the trouble you can cause?


----------



## nickdawg

WJW has the Tribe forced into SD b/c severe weather. Now they're doing a split screen with the game in a small box and a damn live weather map in the other.


WEWS cuts in(as usual) but in this case it's paid programming. And _now_ they decide to throw back to "regular programming"---when it's paid programming they can make money off of! Actually right now is supposed to be Wheel of Fortune but they chose to run the paid program.


Of course WOIO and WKYC are the only two stations with class. A simple crawl inserted over HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14132381
> 
> 
> WJW has the Tribe forced into SD b/c severe weather. Now they're doing a split screen with the game in a small box and a damn live weather map in the other.
> 
> 
> WEWS cuts in(as usual) but in this case it's paid programming. And _now_ they decide to throw back to "regular programming"---when it's paid programming they can make money off of! Actually right now is supposed to be Wheel of Fortune but they chose to run the paid program.
> 
> 
> Of course WOIO and WKYC are the only two stations with class. A simple crawl inserted over HD.



Is there anybody out there that can be more consistantly wrong then you? OK maybe me, but WJW does have the ability to crawl on HD now and has for a while. Even WOIO does.


I don't know why they are broadcasting in SD.


And what really pisses me off is it's the one friggen time that I get the Dodgers in HD on FOX, probably all year and I'm watching in SD now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14132459
> 
> 
> Is there anybody out there that can be more consistantly wrong then you? OK maybe me, but *WJW does have the ability to crawl on HD now and has for a while.* Even WOIO does.
> 
> I don't know why they are broadcasting in SD.
> 
> 
> And what really pisses me off is it's the one friggen time that I get the Dodgers in HD on FOX, probably all year and I'm watching in SD now.



No they don't. Every time something comes up in primetime they are forcing SD. If you're thinking of the "FOX 8.1" bug in primetime that is controlled by the network distribution. Each local FOX has its own bug.


But I don't expect to see HD keying equipment any time soon(if they need to add it) since the sale to Local TV is about to be finalized.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14132472
> 
> 
> No they don't. Every time something comes up in primetime they are forcing SD. If you're thinking of the "FOX 8.1" bug in primetime that is controlled by the network distribution. Each local FOX has its own bug.
> 
> 
> But I don't expect to see HD keying equipment any time soon(if they need to add it) since the sale to Local TV is about to be finalized.



Ahhh, bull pucky. I know I've seen the crawl in HD on WJW.


But that still doesn't explain why they pulled the Dolby 5.1. I've seen them go to SD in the past and continue with Dolby 5.1.


And why do you think the new owners are cheap? Not everyone is WOIO. Give them a chance, geeze, they just bought the darn station.


----------



## hookbill

OK, so the game goes to SD and stays that way until the Tribe takes the lead in the 11th. Then suddenly it goes back to HD, just that quick.


One of you work for WJW and did this deliberately to humiliate me.










We will get you tomorrow!


----------



## Smarty-pants

I think the LAD losing to the Tribe (AGAIN!) is humiliating enough for you .


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14132497
> 
> 
> But that still doesn't explain why they pulled the Dolby 5.1. I've seen them go to SD in the past and continue with Dolby 5.1..



That's wrong. If they did that, then they obviously messed something up. SD programming is 2.0. If it says 3/2.1 on then either it is an awful fake surround upvoncert or they are doing L/R only and nothing is coming out of the other speakers. WKYC does that one. It always says 3/2.1 but it isn't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14133276
> 
> 
> I think the LAD losing to the Tribe (AGAIN!) is humiliating enough for you .



It's clear to me that the reason we lost was because of WJW's apparent inability to deliver a high definition picture. It takes power and when L.A. has to provide all the power and Cleveland doesn't, then it's obvious that they will hit better in the late innings.


I mean this is just common sense!


And where the heck was the Tribe when I needed them against Colorado? Getting their collective butts kicked.


I should have never even thought about sympathy for Cleveland against my Red Sox. Never again.


Further, King James went and shot his mouth off on how they went 7 games with Boston and L.A. only managed to go 6, so he feels they are a better team then the Lakers? What a joke, without him there is no team.


Well, one thing that Cleveland and Los Angeles do share: neither of them has a professional football team. And I've always cheered the Tribe against the Anaheim Angels, or California Angels. As far as I'm concerned they are not the "Los Angeles Angels" of Aneheim, they lost their L.A. title when they moved to Anaheim back around 1964.


Well, no more. For one thing Mike Scioscia is the manager of the team and he plays true NATIONAL League Dodger baseball. So that's another team I'll prefer over the Indians.


And if by some strange quirk of fate the Dodgers lose tomorrow, I will put the Indians in the following order of baseball teams I hate: 1. New York Yankees 2. San Francisco Giants 3. Any other team in the same division of the Dodgers. 4. CLEVELAND INDIANS!


I'm a sore loser!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14133532
> 
> 
> That's wrong. If they did that, then they obviously messed something up. SD programming is 2.0. If it says 3/2.1 on then either it is an awful fake surround upvoncert or they are doing L/R only and nothing is coming out of the other speakers. WKYC does that one. It always says 3/2.1 but it isn't.



I'll be truthfull, I don't know if Cops is in HD or not. I know at one time it wasn't but you still got the Dolby 5.1 sound signal.


However you did not get Dolby 5.1. There is nothing going to the back except commercials.


And correct me if I'm wrong but when the Tribe plays on STO doesn't the sound show 3.2.0? I never did understand that.


----------



## hookbill

I've been meaning to mention this for a few weeks now but according to Jeff Probes Survivor will be in HD next year.


Now Survivor was a show that was filmed in SD but did have Dolby 5.1 and it wasn't fake.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14133600
> 
> 
> I'll be truthfull, I don't know if Cops is in HD or not. I know at one time it wasn't but you still got the Dolby 5.1 sound signal.
> 
> 
> However you did not get Dolby 5.1. There is nothing going to the back except commercials.



Cops is 16:9 digital. There are plans (this fall I think) to go actual HD. FOX does send down a digital feed of SD shows with 5.1 audio. 4:3 shows like AMW and Mad TV come through as 3/2.1.



> Quote:
> And correct me if I'm wrong but when the Tribe plays on STO doesn't the sound show 3.2.0? I never did understand that.



I have no clue what that is. STO still uses that bastardized format that WKYC once used on local programming. I think they are missing the low frequency. The LFE light isn't on STO and 3/2 is missing the .1.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14133606
> 
> 
> I've been meaning to mention this for a few weeks now but according to Jeff Probes Survivor will be in HD next year.
> 
> 
> Now Survivor was a show that was filmed in SD but did have Dolby 5.1 and it wasn't fake.



CBS also sends down a true digital feed for the HD channel, usually including surround. You can tell the difference between 60 Minutes at 7pm (analog SD upconvert by affiliate) and The Amazing Race at 8pm (digital network feed). One day when WOIO was running weather maps it was irritating b/c they kept switching between the two feeds and the sound would get really loud on the network digital and really low on the analog upconvert.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14129590
> 
> 
> Agreed. We really are not suppose to go there.
> 
> 
> So to get back on topic (sort of) is the completion of the conversion for TW completed? And does anyone with a SARA SA 8300 have Navigator software?




Hook, I am still waiting on a Navigator update here in Twinsburg. Still using an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have been so busy playing with my new Klipsch surround system that I haven't watched much TV lately. Lots of Blu-Ray and DVDs to break in the new speakers.


I went with RF 83 fronts, RC 64 center, RS 62 surrounds, and an RT 12d sub. I may never leave my house again. Now I just need TWC to add more HD channels with surround.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/14133921
> 
> 
> Hook, I am still waiting on a Navigator update here in Twinsburg. Still using an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have been so busy playing with my new Klipsch surround system that I haven't watched much TV lately. Lots of Blu-Ray and DVDs to break in the new speakers.
> 
> 
> I went with RF 83 fronts, RC 64 center, RS 62 surrounds, and an RT 12d sub. I may never leave my house again. Now I just need TWC to add more HD channels with surround.



You see that's just it. I still have not seen one confirmed case of SARA converted to Navigator.


Now depending what mood dawg is in that either is a blessing or a curse. I'm so confused on how he stands on Navigator these days I can't tell. And since there were upgrades to SARA from the time I last used it hopefully it could only get better - like record when you asked it to.










I know that some of the features they added on SARA was the ability to watch a show in recording progress without being kicked out to the end when the recording was over. I know they added a real super fast high speed fourth gear on the fast forward, something I didn't like. Other then that I don't know what else they did.


There was one person in the SA 8300 thread who was just so excited and thrilled with Navigator, but it turned out he had never owned any other DVR before. I tried to be kind and explained that it's kind of like different cars. You have a Chevy Malibu (Navigator) a Caddy (SARA-and I was being very generous there) a BMW (Passport) and then there is a Rolls (TiVo). I said if you were never aware of what else was available of course you would be happy with what you have.


Then a long time regular took my statement and cut it up to say that the Navigator was more like a Yugo.







So you may be thankfull that for whatever reason SARA is the last that will, if it can be, changed.


----------



## Speedskater

WEWS truncated the Indy Cars auto race with 30 laps to go for full screen weather information. Then go back for the endless post race interviews.


----------



## hookbill

I'm just catching up to how CBS, or WOIO shot themselves in the foot with NO HD on their last show finalies. What a disappointment!


nickdawg I see Fox is still showing Bones in Widescreen. What's up with this crap?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14145961
> 
> 
> I'm just catching up to how CBS, or WOIO shot themselves in the foot with NO HD on their last show finalies. What a disappointment!
> 
> 
> nickdawg I see Fox is still showing Bones in Widescreen. What's up with this crap?



What last show finalies? Everything I watched was HD.


And what do you mean about Bones? Was is shown in 4:3 again or were they doing widescreen?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14146997
> 
> 
> What last show finalies? Everything I watched was HD.
> 
> 
> And what do you mean about Bones? Was is shown in 4:3 again or were they doing widescreen?



Ritalin. Seriously, should try it.


The finalies for all CBS shows were wide screen, not HD. First clue is the eye is pratically in the middle of the screen, not off to the side. As the show starts it turns and says CBS HD then back to the eye. This did not happen. Second clue was pq, it was poor. I did several pauses and you can really see it there.


And finally dawg, in the paragraph that you quoted I said it was in widescreen. Take a look yourself:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14145961
> 
> 
> nickdawg I see Fox is still showing Bones in Widescreen. What's up with this crap?


----------



## terryfoster

So your CBS affiliate stretched the CBS content? Sorry if I missed if there were other details provided earlier, but I don't think CBS has provided a SD widescreen feed like FOX does.


I know ABC has moved their bug to fit in the 4:3 frame to better work with the converter boxes and other center-cut systems. Since finalies were so long ago (and I haven't watched CBS lately), I don't remember if CBS had moved their bug/discontinued the "CBS HD" turn.


EDIT: Actually, it appears that nickdawg reported back on 5/22 (in another thread) that NBC followed the lead of CBS in moving their bug into the 4:3 space: nickdawg's post


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14148403
> 
> 
> So your CBS affiliate stretched the CBS content? Sorry if I missed if there were other details provided earlier, but I don't think CBS has provided a SD widescreen feed like FOX does.
> 
> 
> I know ABC has moved their bug to fit in the 4:3 frame to better work with the converter boxes and other center-cut systems. Since finalies were so long ago (and I haven't watched CBS lately), I don't remember if CBS had moved their bug/discontinued the "CBS HD" turn.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually, it appears that nickdawg reported back on 5/22 (in another thread) that NBC followed the lead of CBS in moving their bug into the 4:3 space: nickdawg's post



No it didn't look stretched. It looked widescreen, and it didn't appear to have the sharpness and clarity that I usually see on their HD broadcast.


And as far as the spinning eye, that could be possible they did that last year too but it was still in the right position.


I watched the Law & Order Season Finale and I don't recall NBC's bug being in a different spot. But I'll put it out of the trash and take a look.










Edit: OK, L&O's "bug", which I assume is the peacock logo with the Olympic Rings is still in the same spot. It wouldn't show on a 4:3 screen.


I took a quick glance at CSI:NY and maybe my mind is playing tricks with me. I've been having some eye problems as of late so perhaps that's why I didn't think it was as sharp as it should be but I did a comparison and CSI:NY looked as good as L&O. Also I noticed it did say presented in CBS High Definition but you will see that on a SD show all the time. And the Eye is where it would be on a 4:3 frame.


----------



## terryfoster

Well, looking at Young and the Restless on CBS right now and the CBS bug is in the 4:3 space. Again, CBS hasn't provided SD Widescreen like FOX, so if you're seeing something in widescreen on a CBS affiliate it's either stretched SD or it's HD.


It's entirely possible that WOIO changed their encoder settings so the picture isn't as clear, but I believe I can say with some confidence that what you were watching was supposed to be HD.


You'll be seeing alot of the same graphics you'd see on the SD version of the major networks since it appears they're pretty much producing one feed which is either center-cut (very popular with ABC programming) or letterboxed (very popular with NBC programming) for the SD viewers.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14148002
> 
> 
> Ritalin. Seriously, should try it.
> 
> *The finalies for all CBS shows were wide screen, not HD.* First clue is the eye is pratically in the middle of the screen, not off to the side. As the show starts it turns and says CBS HD then back to the eye. This did not happen.



This was a network decision. In an effort to make SD downconversion easier for affiliates after 2/17/09. The bug and all snipes/ads are in the 4x3 area so affiliates can "crop" the sides for the SD digital channel on cable/satellite. The shows are still 16x9 1080i, just the graphics moved. ABC has also recently moved theirs. So did NBC(but who watches *N*othing *B*ut *C*rap anyway?







).



> Quote:
> Second clue was pq, it was poor. I did several pauses and you can really see it there.



Probably an affiliate issue. They do have that waste of bandwidth weather channel. Or maybe it's Tivo







I keed, I keed

















I've seen it too.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, I hope your on the money with this dude. Tonight Mark Johnson on channel 5 is predicting "possible severe weather for the remainder of the week."


Now usually this doesn't bother me but since I now work like everyone else my car is not in the garage. That is my NEW car that I bought last Tuesday isn't in the garage.










Hail can be evil.


----------



## Smarty-pants

No room in the garage?!? Get rid of all the junk!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14153305
> 
> 
> nickdawg, I hope your on the money with this dude. Tonight Mark Johnson on channel 5 is predicting "possible severe weather for the remainder of the week."
> 
> 
> Now usually this doesn't bother me but since I now work like everyone else my car is not in the garage. That is my NEW car that I bought last Tuesday isn't in the garage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hail can be evil.



Buy a car cover


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14153439
> 
> 
> No room in the garage?!? Get rid of all the junk!



Huh? Who said anything about that?


Are you hanging out with nickdawg?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14153607
> 
> 
> Buy a car cover



When I had a motorcycle I use to to that. The problem is just like everyone else I only have so much time.


It's a shame. I'm 55 years old and I'm working harder then at anytime in my life. I worked in some tough jobs early on before going to tech school but that was more in the way of boring, repetative, and kind of standing on one leg working a punch press all day. It had this little counter on it and the boss would come by and write it down. I never did but all I had to do was pull the chain 50 times and I'd look like I made 50 more pieces. It was hot, uncomfortable and dirty.


Now I'm under this microscope where they want to know where you are every second of the day. If you're off the phone for 5 minutes your boss calls you to see if you are having a problem. You may be filling out a form for a customer or doing something else but they want you to do 4 things at one time.


Once they even hunted me down in the bathroom when I had a bad case of constipation. Hey, it happens to people my age. I was so embarrassed I went to the doctor and got a note saying that I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome and I may need extra time on some occassions.


So I have to be there early so I can go through my email, take care of any unfinished business that I couldn't do while on the phone, work through my break, sometimes part or all of my lunch. Because if I don't they will want to know why I am not performing as well as a 25 year old.


So you see, I can't cover the car. Tonight I got one hour of TiVo in. I saw the finale of Boston Legal. And it's not just this company I work for. All Customer Service Reps are are pushed so hard and monitored so closely.


I was also and administrative assistant. That means you do the boss's work, he gets the credit.


Good night guys. 6 am comes early.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14153862
> 
> 
> Now I'm under this microscope where they want to know where you are every second of the day. If you're off the phone for 5 minutes your boss calls you to see if you are having a problem. You may be filling out a form for a customer or doing something else but they want you to do 4 things at one time.
> 
> 
> Once they even hunted me down in the bathroom when I had a bad case of constipation. Hey, it happens to people my age. I was so embarrassed I went to the doctor and got a note saying that I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome and I may need extra time on some occassions.
> 
> 
> So I have to be there early so I can go through my email, take care of any unfinished business that I couldn't do while on the phone, work through my break, sometimes part or all of my lunch. Because if I don't they will want to know why I am not performing as well as a 25 year old.
> 
> 
> So you see, I can't cover the car. Tonight I got one hour of TiVo in. I saw the finale of Boston Legal. And it's not just this company I work for. All Customer Service Reps are are pushed so hard and monitored so closely.



I hear you, Hookbill. Time is such a precious commodity, and it seems like we have less and less of it these days.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14153769
> 
> 
> Huh? Who said anything about that?
> 
> 
> Are you hanging out with nickdawg?



Just razzin ya man







. You said you've got this NEW car, but it's not in the garage. I thought I'd just throw a guess out there as to why







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14154866
> 
> 
> Just razzin ya man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . You said you've got this NEW car, but it's not in the garage. I thought I'd just throw a guess out there as to why
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Nah, the reason why was I thought I had retired and my car was in the garage most of the time.


The Saturn I just turned in had a grand total of 17,000 miles on it a 2005 leased in December 2004.


I put 7000 miles on that in the last 6 months.


Unless you have Fox Sports Net for other cities then you probably never see the Chevron Gas car commercials with the talking cars. I remember one with the car standing outside of the garage which was full of stuff complaining that the garage is for the car, not a storage area.


I think they still do them, they were pretty entertaining 15 years ago.


Now nothing about Oil Companies is funny anymore.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14153862
> 
> 
> Now I'm under this microscope where they want to know where you are every second of the day. If you're off the phone for 5 minutes your boss calls you to see if you are having a problem. You may be filling out a form for a customer or doing something else but they want you to do 4 things at one time.



Are you a CSR for TWC?









Seriously, its a shame performance quotas come down to hunting someone down in the bathroom. In the end your boss and your boss's boss probably have to perform like this or corporate will move the jobs to India.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/14155524
> 
> 
> Are you a CSR for TWC?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, its a shame performance quotas come down to hunting someone down in the bathroom. In the end your boss and your boss's boss probably have to perform like this or corporate will move the jobs to India.



Well, I put an end to that when I went to the doctor. I notified HR and it's not a problem anymore. But we are still watched closely.


My boss is from India!


----------



## Trip in VA

Just a quick heads-up to any OTA viewers who might watch TBN, WDLI has applied to move from channel 39 (at 200 kW) to channel 49 (at 900 kW).


- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants

Isn't WNEO on channel 49?


----------



## hookbill

I got a message on my TiVo about some channel in the 500's, the On Demand sections has been added. That's great, thank you TiVo. We don't get On Demand.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14160474
> 
> 
> Isn't WNEO on channel 49?



Until 02/17/09. Then WEAO-DT is only on channel 50.


- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14160572
> 
> 
> Until 02/17/09. Then WEAO-DT is only on channel 50.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Got it. Thanks.


----------



## ErieMarty

to add more HD Channels...it sucks compared to Direct/Dish..


it can't be that difficult to add new Channels....can it be ???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14163089
> 
> 
> to add more HD Channels...it sucks compared to Direct/Dish..
> 
> 
> it can't be that difficult to add new Channels....can it be ???



SDV - SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO, and yes, it isn't that easy for them to do.


Not to defend TW, but they got stuck with Adelphia who never had their channels aligned and used SA 8300 SARA software for DVR's, then picked up Comcast as part of the Adelphia buyout who use Motorola boxes. So they start with what they already owned and convert the SA 8300 Passport boxes (sympathies to nickdawg) to Navigator software and now they will have to figure out the rest. Navigator has the SDV in it but they can't do it until they convert everyone.


Also this changed to SDV appears to be slower then anticipated (suprise) not just here but throughout the country.


So if you want more HD channels now, satellite is your answer. But there is the question of quality of HD channels. Just because a channel is listed as "HD" doesn't mean it will have HD program all the time. ESPN doesn't. Nickdawgs favorite channel, TBS doesn't. TNT doesn't.


I will say this: I have tuned into the HD History channel and I am quite amazed at some of the stuff I've seen recently there. "How the Earth Was Made" was spectacular in HD. So last night I made a wish list on my TiVo for shows in HD, subcategory documentary, and history. It gave me a wealth of programs to choose from that looked real interesting. And it excluded any non HD programs.


----------



## nickdawg

SDV, I hope they at least do it for their original customers FIRST. We already have the new Navigator software so it's in the near future.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14168867
> 
> 
> SDV, I hope they at least do it for their original customers FIRST. We already have the new Navigator software so it's in the near future.



I doubt that you're high on the priority list. First, they have a lot of areas that they haven't even touched yet. I'm talking beyond Cleveland and Akron. Second, We are customers just like you. What makes you think you're special? Plus here's a newsflash. We outnumber you original TW people.


SDV is not something that you can only offer some and not others in the same area. They will have to either figure out a way to give navigator to SARA people, which as I have explained many times has not been done anywhere to the best of my knowledge and then they have to deal with the moto boxes.


Here's what I think. They are going to pull all the SARA boxes and give out SA 8300 HDC because they cannot convert them to Navigator. Same with the Moto boxes. Of course that will mean thousands of customers will lose their recordings but hey, that's not TW's problem now is it?


I personally don't give a rats ass if it ever gets here. But I guarantee you won't see it before 2009. That that to the bank, dawg!


----------



## Cathode Kid

I personally know of people with 8300 SARA (non-HDC boxes) that have been converted to Navigator. So I don't expect that there are hardware limitations in the traditional 8300 boxes that preclude the deployment of Navigator.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14169362
> 
> 
> I personally know of people with 8300 SARA (non-HDC boxes) that have been converted to Navigator. So I don't expect that there are hardware limitations in the traditional 8300 boxes that preclude the deployment of Navigator.



They are exactly the same(hardware). The only difference is some 8300HD have SARA and some have Passport. Both can run Navigator. It's just taking them forever(as usual) to deploy it. I got the new lineup in March and Navigator at the beginning of May. Just keep waiting patiently, hook







They didn't forget you


----------



## nickdawg

Recently I've noticed channels like USA, TNT, MTV, Weather Channel and HGTV on numbers in the 780s-790s as well as the 950s. Found it through the keyboard search method when shows were listed multiple times. EX: "Burn Notice" is on USA channel 201 as well as 792. When I tune to these channels a message appears on screen to "Call Customer Care to receive this channel".


My guess(I know hook) is these are SDV test channels that may be coming soon. In one of the other thread(Navigator I believe) areas were running test channels in odd places before deploying SDV.


EDIT: The channels in the 900s are listed in the guide. They're called "Switched Digital Video" on the upper portion of the screen.


948: ABC Family

949: FX

950: FNC

951: History

952: MTV

953: NICK

954: TLC

955: SPIKE


Methinks SDV will be here before 2009, at least for some of us


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14169362
> 
> 
> I personally know of people with 8300 SARA (non-HDC boxes) that have been converted to Navigator. So I don't expect that there are hardware limitations in the traditional 8300 boxes that preclude the deployment of Navigator.



Really? Well you ought to let them know about that at the SA 8300 SARA thread because they don't seem to know about that.


It's difficult for me to say this but unless things have changed over there in the past few weeks, and they may have I find your statement a little difficult to believe. Yet I've never known you to be a liar and I don't want to cast that dispersion on you, I'll accept what you say as fact but difficult to understand how some people in Cleveland have got the change but nobody on that thread has.


As I said, things may have changed. I haven't read the thread for a couple of weeks.


And accepting what you say as fact you still have the moto boxes to deal with. No one who has an SA 8300 SARA in this forum has reported receiving Navigator either.


----------



## scherfmd

Forgive me, I am a total noob to the AVS forums but I figured if there is a definative answer to this that someone here could help me. If this is in the wrong forum just let me know and I will move it.


I am a first time home buyer and am going to be moving to Lyndhurst in a few months. I currently live in Cleveland Heights and have TWC. Quite frankly I am just tired of it. I think everyone will agree the number of HD channels are limited and the addition of HD channels is slow. Not to mention the poor customer service and problems with digital blocking for months.


Now, being a home owner for the first time I actually have the option to switch over to Direct TV or Dish Network or just stay with TWC. I was curious, considering all things, (price, service, channel options, etc.) which option people feel is best.


Thanks a ton and I gotta say that I have learned a ton here just by lurking.


----------



## jtscherne

If you are interested in more HD, Directv and Dish will be your first choices (basically in that order because Directv has more at this point). Directv is also your choice if you're interested in sports subscriptions, since they have some exclusive deals.


The main thing about the satellite services is that you must have clear line of sight. If there will be trees in the area, you might have a problem. My suggestion is to drive around where you will be living and see if you see dishes. That will tell you the exact directions that need to have clear sight.


You may also have the ability to subcribe to ATT Uverse in your location, but they're still going through some growing pains.


Finally, you have to decide how you want to get your internet. If you don't get cable, you either have to go with DSL or (Gasp!) Dialup. DSL may not always be as fast, but you'll get some price choices.


Anyway, ask questions, and we'll help!


----------



## scherfmd

Thanks for your response.


I am definitely most interested in the most HD selection and I know Direct TV offers that, but I have just heard horror stories about Direct and Dish customers having bad service or losing service. I know my girlfriend would murder me if I switch over from something "dependable" in her eyes (TWC, but I don't know if I think it's the most dependable thing ever either) to something like satellite. Not to mention I worry about the start-up costs of a satellite service and a satellite service just costing me more in general. I pay $130 now for cable internet connection and then digital cable on two TVs. You know?


And you are right about internet too. I have had cable internet for a while now and I am beginning to wonder if I would be able to assimilate to DSL or just get frustrated because it's a bit slower. I just hate TWC so much sometimes but being able to get half decent TV with cable internet from the same place is mighty appealing.


Although I guess that would change if TWC makes the change over to having caps on the amount of data downloaded through your internet connection.


----------



## jtscherne

Others may have different stories, but I had Dish and now have Directv, and except for an installation issue with Directv that was resolved, I have never had any major customer service issues. I have read the horror stories elsewhere, but I just haven't had that experience.


Of course, I tend to be somewhat anal about certain things and may have done everything in advance to avoid issues and I tend to understand the idea that some things are out of everyone's control, where some people I think are more picky.


Anyway, if your girlfriend considers Time Warner to be more "dependable", you need to continue to stick around here and read the horror stories as they come in... And they will come in!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scherfmd* /forum/post/14171152
> 
> 
> Thanks for your response.
> 
> 
> I am definitely most interested in the most HD selection and I know Direct TV offers that, but I have just heard horror stories about Direct and Dish customers having bad service or losing service. I know my girlfriend would murder me if I switch over from something "dependable" in her eyes (TWC, but I don't know if I think it's the most dependable thing ever either) to something like satellite. Not to mention I worry about the start-up costs of a satellite service and a satellite service just costing me more in general. I pay $130 now for cable internet connection and then digital cable on two TVs. You know?
> 
> ............



I've never had sat service but as jtscherne has stated I've also heard varying degrees of problems/issues with sat service. I've spoken with some who say their sat signal is hardly ever out (weather, atmospherics, snow, ice, wind, sat equipment issues, etc...) while others have told me they lost their signal so often they finally gave up and went back to cable.


But I'd bet a lot of the problems were related to poor installations.


----------



## scherfmd

yeah and that's the thing. I know TWC is garbage. Like many others on this board I have just had ongoing problems with my cable. Its like when one problem goes away, another happens. I just grew tired of dealing with CSRs and just have given up. My girlfriend looks at TWC as dependable because at the end of the day you have SOMETHING.


She sees it as with sat service that if there is a storm you may have nothing. That's a problem.


I just hate TWC and want any excuse to leave. And I love the selection of sports packages and HD channels with sat. Cable can't even come close to touching sat. there.


Its always that degree of feeling comfortable with cable and having that nice cable internet service bundled in that always make me come crawling back.


Is there anyone who has either dish or direct that could make a compelling argument? I REALLY want to leave TWC, but don't want to invest in something that's going to be a headache. Because sat service really is somewhat of an investment (and please let me know if I am wrong there).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scherfmd* /forum/post/14171876
> 
> 
> ...................Its always that degree of feeling comfortable with cable and having that nice cable internet service bundled in that always make me come crawling back..........



And add in VOIP service to the package and it *really* becomes an almost unbeatable deal!

Assuming all three services are relatively reliable.










Is TWC your only cable option in Lyndhurst?


----------



## Jigga Moog

I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. Should I use the Winegard MS-1000 omnidrectional?


----------



## scherfmd

I think so. It seems that the east side of Cleveland is pretty much dominated by TWC. I had Cox when I lived in Lakewood and I loved it. It actually wasn't bad and when I did have problems, stuff actually got taken care of.


I'm not really sure either if uVerse is out in Lyndhurst yet, but I don't know if it even would matter for me. I have heard a certain amount of limitations of uverse that need to be worked out before I would ever consider it.


Its really looks like its TWC, Dish or Direct as my choices. I am pretty much in the same boat as like 90% of Clevelanders, so that's why I want to ask around to see what people suggest.


----------



## scherfmd

oh and btw, apparently uverse IS out in Lyndhurst where I am. So I guess that is another choice I have. Anyone have any insigh on uverse as a legit option?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14172319
> 
> 
> I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. Should I use the Winegard MS-1000 omnidrectional?



I use the Winegard MS-2000 which I believe is the same antenna but with an amplifier. Mine works great in Strongsville so you being even closer to the towers should be a rock solid signal.


Placing it in your attic may or may not be an issue, I'm guessing not with your location but any attic will cause up to a 50% signal loss. The antenna is such low profile that if your attic install is not giving you a decent signal than placing it outdoors should be quite discrete if needed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scherfmd* /forum/post/14172345
> 
> 
> oh and btw, apparently uverse IS out in Lyndhurst where I am. So I guess that is another choice I have. Anyone have any insigh on uverse as a legit option?



The only problem I've heard of is that you can only watch one HD channel at a time, therefore using their DVR you would be limited in your recording.


Other then that people who have it seem pretty happy.


On the subject of Satellite, I had very little interruption of service due to weather but I lived in Northern Kentucky at that time. It seemed like they had more severe storms but still I liked it a great deal. I did not have HD.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Regarding the one HD feed at a time, they're supposed to be expanding that.


----------



## scherfmd

yeah i did a bit of reading on uverse and I heard the multiple HD feed expansion one of those slow expansions by area. I would love to believe that its hear now or it will be coming soon, but I went through the TWC channel reorg and HD "expansion" and I don't believe anything is coming soon now.


Not to mention stupid uverse doesn't have sportstime ohio in HD. what are we, animals? What kind of world do I live in that I can't watch every Indians game in HD?


----------



## Jigga Moog

Winegard has the omnidirectional ms-1000 and ms-2000. The only difference is the ms-2000 is amplified. I dont know if I need the amp so my question is if I dont need the amp will the antenna still work with the amp unplugged?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14173420
> 
> 
> Winegard has the omnidirectional ms-1000 and ms-2000. The only difference is the ms-2000 is amplified. I dont know if I need the amp so my question is if I dont need the amp will the antenna still work with the amp unplugged?



Never tried that, dunno.







Are you indeed looking for an in-attic installation?


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14173556
> 
> 
> Never tried that, dunno.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you indeed looking for an in-attic installation?



Yes I have one up there already so it will be a easy swap. Or should I be looking into a Wingard 7080 or 7082? I heard that a omni would work better in a attic.


----------



## Jigga Moog

On the ms-2000 is the amp inline so the you could just remove it? Is it a good amp? Should I just get the ms-1000 and if I need a amp just buy one?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14174068
> 
> 
> Yes I have one up there already so it will be a easy swap. Or should I be looking into a Wingard 7080 or 7082? I heard that a omni would work better in a attic.



If you have an attic antenna why are you buying another? Not getting a decent signal?


Omni or directional depends on many factors. Directionals are usually better at weaker/distant signals but (obviously) only from that one general direction.


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14174106
> 
> 
> If you have an attic antenna why are you buying another? Not getting a decent signal?
> 
> 
> Omni or directional depends on many factors. Directionals are usually better at weaker/distant signals but (obviously) only from that one general direction.



It is 30 years old and falling apart. Signal is hit or miss. It is only UHF or VHF I cant remember. I am about 5-10 miles to the broadcast antenna's.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14174095
> 
> 
> On the ms-2000 is the amp inline so the you could just remove it? Is it a good amp? Should I just get the ms-1000 and if I need a amp just buy one?



Yes it is inline. Good? I dunno as I have nothing to compare it too. It works on my setup.


If you wanted to try mine before you bought one you surely could. Won't take me but 10 minutes to disconnect the disc (the actual antenna) on the chimney and the amp in the attic.


You could then try it for a day, with amp, without amp, in attic, outside for comparisons. I just rested mine on my roof ridge and chimney for temporary testing outside. To use the with the amp you would require another run of RG6.


Obviously I'd have to ask for a cash deposit should you fall in love with my antenna and not return it.







But, really, I'm more than willing to offer it for a day if you want to try it out and return it to me. But, please, just one day! I couldn't bare to see Wilma Smith not in HD!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14174157
> 
> 
> It is 30 years old and falling apart. Signal is hit or miss. It is only UHF or VHF I cant remember. I am about 5-10 miles to the broadcast antenna's.



OIC, yeah, it's time to replace it. I also have a new directional in my attic that the MS-2000 replaced (signal was just too weak on ch 3 & ch 19), but as you are much closer to the towers you may want to try that one as well.


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14174197
> 
> 
> Yes it is inline. Good? I dunno as I have nothing to compare it too. It works on my setup.
> 
> 
> If you wanted to try mine before you bought one you surely could. Won't take me but 10 minutes to disconnect the disc (the actual antenna) on the chimney and the amp in the attic.
> 
> 
> You could then try it for a day, with amp, without amp, in attic, outside for comparisons. I just rested mine on my roof ridge and chimney for temporary testing outside. To use the with the amp you would require another run of RG6.
> 
> 
> Obviously I'd have to ask for a cash deposit should you fall in love with my antenna and not return it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, really, I'm more than willing to offer it for a day if you want to try it out and return it to me. But, please, just one day! I couldn't bare to see Wilma Smith not in HD!



Wow! I really appreciate the offer. I think I am decided on the ms-1000 and if I need a amp I can just get one later. Thanks again for the offer.


----------



## Jigga Moog

I just read the owners manual on the ms-2000 and now I am decided on the on the nonamplified ms-1000.

quote

"Amplified antennas installed within 10 miles of TV station towers, could cause overloading of the preamp."


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14174346
> 
> 
> I just read the owners manual on the ms-2000 and now I am decided on the on the nonamplified ms-1000.
> 
> quote
> 
> "Amplified antennas installed within 10 miles of TV station towers, could cause overloading of the preamp."



Sounds correct and could cause multi-path issues being that close & amplified. Although, being an in-attic install the amp *might* be needed to help with those weak signals. But I like your plan, start with no amp and add one if necessary, assuming that can be done with the 1000 which I presume you can.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14172778
> 
> 
> Regarding the one HD feed at a time, they're supposed to be expanding that.



Yes. They're expanding it to two at a time.


U-Verse uses DSL technology for the last mile from their fiber node (V-Rad) to your home. Given the limitations of Cat-3-or-lower twisted pair, they have about 25mb of throughput to work with. I'll give them credit for squeaking that much throughput out of twisted pair, but it does hit a ceiling. That 25mb has to be divvied up between your video services and broadband data.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14175936
> 
> 
> Yes. They're expanding it to two at a time.
> 
> 
> U-Verse uses DSL technology for the last mile from their fiber node (V-Rad) to your home. Given the limitations of Cat-3-or-lower twisted pair, they have about 25mb of throughput to work with. I'll give them credit for squeaking that much throughput out of twisted pair, but it does hit a ceiling. That 25mb has to be divvied up between your video services and broadband data.



And they have been promising this for how long now?


It will probably happen sometime in the year 2010, about the same time you will see SDV here in the Cleveland area.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14175936
> 
> 
> Yes. They're expanding it to two at a time.
> 
> 
> U-Verse uses DSL technology for the last mile from their fiber node (V-Rad) to your home. Given the limitations of Cat-3-or-lower twisted pair, they have about 25mb of throughput to work with. I'll give them credit for squeaking that much throughput out of twisted pair, but it does hit a ceiling. That 25mb has to be divvied up between your video services and broadband data.



So will the "two at a time" be the max then?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14175970
> 
> 
> So will the "two at a time" be the max then?



Good question. What if you got 3 boxes? You only would get two hd channels? That would suck.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14175961
> 
> 
> And they have been promising this for how long now?
> 
> 
> It will probably happen sometime in the year 2010, about the same time you will see SDV here in the Cleveland area.



Good point.


My brother-in-law is a supervisor for SBC/AT&T/Ameritech or whatever the hell it's called now







. Anyway, he says they a marketing the Uverse VERY HEAVILY and that the service is selling like hotcakes. Apparantly people are saving loads of money switching from TW to UV. I can certainly with the marketing bit, they have called my house at least 3 times or more trying to sell it to me and they have knocked on my door twice. Yes, they are "cold calling" door to door try to sell every customer they can.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14175996
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> 
> My brother-in-law is a supervisor for SBC/AT&T/Ameritech or whatever the hell it's called now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Anyway, he says they a marketing the Uverse VERY HEAVILY and that the service is selling like hotcakes. Apparantly people are saving loads of money switching from TW to UV. I can certainly with the marketing bit, they have called my house at least 3 times or more trying to sell it to me and they have knocked on my door twice. Yes, they are "cold calling" door to door try to sell every customer they can.



Of course, they are the ones directly responsible for getting the cable bill passed granting rights for cable company operations through the state instead of local communities.


I personally think everyone should be allowed to pick any cable company they want. I understand why that isn't possible, but just think of how that kind of competition would drive down prices!


And the majority of people who jump on the AT&T bandwagon are average consumers, not that knowledgeable about other types of technology. You know a step below nickdawg.
























Sorry dawg, couldn't resist.


Now if we could get FIOS, I'd jump on that!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14175970
> 
> 
> So will the "two at a time" be the max then?



Yes, at least for the forseeable future. And every outlet will need a box. There's no such thing as "cable ready TVs" with SDV, at least not currently.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14176032
> 
> 
> Of You know a step below nickdawg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry dawg, couldn't resist.
> 
> 
> Now if we could get FIOS, I'd jump on that!



AHEM!!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14176235
> 
> 
> Yes, at least for the forseeable future. And every outlet will need a box. There's no such thing as "cable ready TVs" with SDV, at least not currently.



As I stated earlier, SDV is in the near future for NE Ohio(some of us). Maybe Johnson can see it coming on the power of 5!!


----------



## nickdawg

Recently I've noticed channels like USA, TNT, MTV, Weather Channel and HGTV on numbers in the 780s-790s as well as the 950s. Found it through the keyboard search method when shows were listed multiple times. EX: "Burn Notice" is on USA channel 201 as well as 792. When I tune to these channels a message appears on screen to "Call Customer Care to receive this channel".

The channels in the 900s are listed in the guide. They're called "Switched Digital Video" on the upper portion of the guide.


948: ABC Family

949: FX

950: FNC

951: History

952: MTV

953: NICK

954: TLC

955: SPIKE


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14176604
> 
> 
> Recently I've noticed channels like USA, TNT, MTV, Weather Channel and HGTV on numbers in the 780s-790s as well as the 950s. Found it through the keyboard search method when shows were listed multiple times. EX: "Burn Notice" is on USA channel 201 as well as 792. When I tune to these channels a message appears on screen to "Call Customer Care to receive this channel".
> 
> The channels in the 900s are listed in the guide. They're called "Switched Digital Video" on the upper portion of the guide.
> 
> 
> 948: ABC Family
> 
> 949: FX
> 
> 950: FNC
> 
> 951: History
> 
> 952: MTV
> 
> 953: NICK
> 
> 954: TLC
> 
> 955: SPIKE



Well, they are probably testing some things but these channels will never be SDV because currently the are all analog and unless TW does all digital, which it won't, they won't be SDV. Further, go ahead and call customer service. I'll bet they won't know what the heck you are talking about.


Here's a little education on SDV. Even in the areas where almost all channels are SDV there are still some channels that arn't. The reason for this is if it is a high demand channel then putting it on SDV doesn't make sense.


That is why when SDV finally rolls around here you will see some stations that will be SDV and some that won't. I really don't even know if the average person could tell unless they went to their diagnostic screen - or your a TiVo owner without a digital converter.


Austin Texas has full blown SDV. As does San Antonio, Hawaii and Rochester NY. Even they still have some channels that are not SDV. Comcast is fooling around with it in New England.


Point is that it's not moving at the rate TW thought it would but that shouldn't surprise you. Comcrap and TW are twins and they don't quite carry out their missions all that successfully. But still no doubt eventually it will get to our area, I just think it will be one of the last because of the Adelphia and Comcast merger.


By the way nickdawg, you still lovin' that Navigator?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14176688
> 
> 
> Well, they are probably testing some things but these channels will never be SDV because currently the are all analog and unless TW does all digital, which it won't, they won't be SDV. Further, go ahead and call customer service. I'll bet they won't know what the heck you are talking about.



They say Switched Digital Video in the guide. They may be analog in your area but here they're all digital. SDV doesn't affect analog viewing. It only better manages digital bandwidth.



> Quote:
> Here's a little education on SDV. Even in the areas where almost all channels are SDV there are still some channels that arn't. The reason for this is if it is a high demand channel then putting it on SDV doesn't make sense.



Some channels will never be SDV b/c they are "must carry". Mostly local digital/HD channels and high demand channels.



> Quote:
> That is why when SDV finally rolls around here you will see some stations that will be SDV and some that won't. I really don't even know if the average person could tell unless they went to their diagnostic screen - or your a TiVo owner without a digital converter.



My diagnostic screen still says "SDV not Enabled".


It's gonna be a fun day for Tivo viewers











> Quote:
> Austin Texas has full blown SDV. As does San Antonio, Hawaii and Rochester NY. Even they still have some channels that are not SDV. Comcast is fooling around with it in New England.
> 
> 
> Point is that it's not moving at the rate TW thought it would but that shouldn't surprise you. Comcrap and TW are twins and they don't quite carry out their missions all that successfully. But still no doubt eventually it will get to our area, I just think it will be one of the last because of the Adelphia and Comcast merger.
> 
> 
> By the way nickdawg, you still lovin' that Navigator?



I'm liking it a bit better if SDV is in the near future.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14163240
> 
> 
> SDV - SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO, and yes, it isn't that easy for them to do.
> 
> 
> Not to defend TW, but they got stuck with Adelphia who never had their channels aligned and used SA 8300 SARA software for DVR's, then picked up Comcast as part of the Adelphia buyout who use Motorola boxes. So they start with what they already owned and convert the SA 8300 Passport boxes (sympathies to nickdawg) to Navigator software and now they will have to figure out the rest. Navigator has the SDV in it but they can't do it until they convert everyone.
> 
> 
> Also this changed to SDV appears to be slower then anticipated (suprise) not just here but throughout the country.
> 
> 
> So if you want more HD channels now, satellite is your answer. But there is the question of quality of HD channels. Just because a channel is listed as "HD" doesn't mean it will have HD program all the time. ESPN doesn't. Nickdawgs favorite channel, TBS doesn't. TNT doesn't.
> 
> 
> I will say this: I have tuned into the HD History channel and I am quite amazed at some of the stuff I've seen recently there. "How the Earth Was Made" was spectacular in HD. So last night I made a wish list on my TiVo for shows in HD, subcategory documentary, and history. It gave me a wealth of programs to choose from that looked real interesting. And it excluded any non HD programs.




Thanks for helping me understand this a little bit better. I am ready to switch to Dish/Direct to get more HD channels then what we have with TW. But wife has heard stories from her Co Workers telling her when you have storms come through you have a good chance to lose signal or during the winter months you can lose channels during snow storms. While with TW we really never had any of those kinds of problem.


Is the picture quality any better with Dish or Direct. Because I do notice some digital and even HD channels look better then others. You would think all would look the same Quality wise since you are getting them feed through cable


Thanks again for your insight and have a good weekend.


You have to think they are losing customers to Dish/Direct because of lack of HD channels


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14178011
> 
> 
> Thanks for helping me understand this a little bit better. I am ready to switch to Dish/Direct to get more HD channels then what we have with TW. But wife has heard stories from her Co Workers telling her when you have storms come through you have a good chance to lose signal or during the winter months you can lose channels during snow storms. While with TW we really never had any of those kinds of problem.
> 
> 
> Is the picture quality any better with Dish or Direct. Because I do notice some digital and even HD channels look better then others. You would think all would look the same Quality wise since you are getting them feed through cable
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your insight and have a good weekend.
> 
> 
> You have to think they are losing customers to Dish/Direct because of lack of HD channels



The weather issue is overstated. Yes, it can cause some problems but for every problem there is a solution.


Snow: Go up on your roof in November, if you can or whever your dish is and spray it with Pam. Yes, Pam. It will keep the snow from sticking.


Rain: This usually happens only when we have a severe storm come through, and much to my surprise it seems to happen just BEFORE and shortly after the rain hits. Largest rain delay I've ever seen in about 15-20 minutes and usually, at least in Northern Kentucky, severe weather hit before prime time.


Dish or Direct Picture? I doubt you will see any difference on standard definintion. I still think that Direct TV digital is better the TW digital. TW local "digital" channels are upconverted analog. Once you get past the 100's then you get real digital. I still pick Direct TV. I've never used Dish.


----------



## rek 50

Back on the TWC or Sat decision........ I have both. TWC basic and DTV-HD. TW is fine for HD locals, AND I get to watch the "Local Comedy" AKA City Council/BOE Meetings.

If a storm blanks the DTV.......I switch over to TW.


As far as DTV-HD "Investment"......Play one(TWC/DTV) against the other, untill you get a FREE DTV HD reciever, FREE Shipping, FREE Install. You will need a two year commitment with DTV, but so far, so good.........


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14176856
> 
> 
> 
> It's gonna be a fun day for Tivo viewers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm liking it a bit better if SDV is in the near future.



Well, the digital converter will be around by then but even if it wasn't 98% of what I record is local program and that won't be on SDV. And believe it or not since they do have the digital converter on the horizon, I'm with you on the SDV thing.


See if we can get along, why can't America and Iran?










Whoops, got political there. Sorry.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rek 50* /forum/post/14178055
> 
> 
> Back on the TWC or Sat decision........ I have both. TWC basic and DTV-HD. TW is fine for HD locals, AND I get to watch the "Local Comedy" AKA City Council/BOE Meetings.
> 
> If a storm blanks the DTV.......I switch over to TW........



It might help those deciding between DTV and TWC if you could give a rough idea on how often and how long your DTV weather related outages are.










Beyond weather, any other outages? Solar flares???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rek 50* /forum/post/14178055
> 
> 
> As far as DTV-HD "Investment"......Play one(TWC/DTV) against the other, untill you get a FREE DTV HD reciever, FREE Shipping, FREE Install. You will need a two year commitment with DTV, but so far, so good.........



You know if you ever want to get out of your contract with them there is an easy way to do it. You simply call, say you are your brother and you died.










This really will work. It's not like a credit card where they ask for a copy of the death certificate. They will just simply stop service.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14179627
> 
> 
> You know if you ever want to get out of your contract with them there is an easy way to do it. You simply call, say you are your brother and you died.



[D*]: "Hello, DirecTV. How may I help you?"


[Hookbill]: "Umm, yeah, hi. I'm Hookbill's brother in Cleveland. And I'm dead. Could you please cancel my contract?"











In addition to you being guilty of fraud fraud and a number of other criminal offenses, D* would probably still try to charge the CC on file for the "early termination fee" even if they did agree to cancel the contract.


FWIW, I had D* for 6 or 7 years. I moved to Armstrong Cable in Medina in October of '06, and I love it. Of course I loved D* when I had it, too. The switch was simply a financial decision.


The ONLY problem I had with D* was when we'd have one of those huge, towering summer thunderstorms that dumps an inch and half of rain in a half hour. I'd lose the signal about a minute after it started raining until about a minute before it stopped. Yes, it was inconvenient a few times. But really, I was usually too busy watching the storm out of the window anyway to really care.


And the loss of signal was made up for by the number of channels offered. I did have the HD package back then, but that was before the new sats launched.


I had it at two different houses, by the way. One in Columbus and one here in Medina. The outage results were identical between the two, and I switched from the old round dish to one of the newer 3-sat oval dishes when I moved.


Oh, and the cost of the whole package really crept up over the years. I was paying over $110 a month for D* before we dropped it, and this was with no movie channels. Cable was simply a much more affordable solution when we added in the phone and internet service. We dropped from a combined cost of $235 to a total cost of about $110. And that was AFTER the promo period was over. For the first year, all three (including every movie channel available and 2 HD DVRs) was $90 per month... _combined!_


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14183087
> 
> 
> [D*]: "Hello, DirecTV. How may I help you?"
> 
> 
> [Hookbill]: "Umm, yeah, hi. I'm Hookbill's brother in Cleveland. And I'm dead. Could you please cancel my contract?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _combined!_










I suppose it would be fraud, but the point is D* would have to press charges and it wouldn't go that far.


This is how I found out about it: A while back in the TiVo Forum there was a guy who wanted out and he came up with the idea. I pm'd him and asked if they asked for any evidence like a death certificate. Since I use to work in the banking business and if it was a credit card we would have pursued further by asking for a death certificate. If one wasn't provided, we would just continue to collect on the debt. We didn't press charges of fraud. Do you realize how badly the courts would get tied up if every little thing like this was prosecuted?


I had this "friend" who had a brother. The brother decided he wanted to get rid of his Honda but figured he could get more from the insurance company if he reported it stolen then trying to sell it. So this "friend" and his brother go into a bar around 1978, have a few beers in a town called Hermosa Beach, California in the middle of summer. Now there were parking meters there and usually two or 3 of them were full of bikes. After drinking a few beers and getting their courage up this "friend" and his brother went outside and started jumping up and down screaming "someone stole my bike."


There was always a cop cruising around right at the pier and he took the report. The cop was upset because he knew he saw that bike there and how the heck could they have stolen it when he had just passed by 15 minutes ago!










The report was filed, the bike was rolled off a cliff in Palos Verdes and the insurance company paid a check.


Now THAT is fraud. It's also pass the statue of limitations so I can tell this story without my "friend" getting in trouble.


Now my "friend" was young and dumb then and didn't even realize he and his brother were committing a crime. At least my "friend" didn't.










But I love to tell the story just because of the part with the cop. He actually pounded his fist on the steering wheel, he was so sure it was there.


So I am told.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14183134
> 
> 
> I had this "friend" who had a brother. The brother decided he wanted to get rid of his Honda but figured he could get more from the insurance company if he reported it stolen then trying to sell it. So this "friend" and his brother go into a bar around 1978, have a few beers in a town called Hermosa Beach, California in the middle of summer. Now there were parking meters there and usually two or 3 of them were full of bikes. After drinking a few beers and getting their courage up this "friend" and his brother went outside and started jumping up and down screaming "someone stole my bike."



I remember a number of years ago, me and a group of guys leaving a local, upscale lakefront bar one evening. Walking throught the parking lot we see a late model Porsche 944 with a key in the hatchback! We were amazed at this situation. After trying it in the door and ignition (it worked both) we decided this was some type of setup, locked the key in the car and moved on. Amazing what some people will do.


----------



## ErieMarty

sounds like you are saying we are pretty much stuck with the limited HD Channels that TW is giving us right now.


I would be nice if they came out with something of when some more might be add.


Even if its not to the 4th QTR of 08. At least throw us TW Customers who spent Good Money on a HD TV some kind of Bone we can chew on for a while to keep us from switching to Direct/Dish


Have a good week and thanks for your help with my questions


Marty


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14186724
> 
> 
> sounds like you are saying we are pretty much stuck with the limited HD Channels that TW is giving us right now.
> 
> 
> I would be nice if they came out with something of when some more might be add.
> 
> 
> Even if its not to the 4th QTR of 08. At least throw us TW Customers who spent Good Money on a HD TV some kind of Bone we can chew on for a while to keep us from switching to Direct/Dish
> 
> 
> Have a good week and thanks for your help with my questions
> 
> 
> Marty



Be thankful the Time Warner gods graced us with five new HD channels this year.







More than they gave us last year with T*BS* HD







. HD my a--!!


Unless SDV comes to be(at least for a portion of NE Ohio) I think this may be all we see as far as HD. I'm still holding out hope that TW picks up USA/NBC networks HD for the Olympics. Dump TBS, nobody watches that s---!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14188196
> 
> 
> Be thankful the Time Warner gods graced us with five new HD channels this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than they gave us last year with T*BS* HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . HD my a--!!
> 
> 
> Unless SDV comes to be(at least for a portion of NE Ohio) I think this may be all we see as far as HD. I'm still holding out hope that TW picks up USA/NBC networks HD for the Olympics. Dump TBS, nobody watches that s---!



I had an HD set last time Olympics were here and NBC showed a special feed ONLY on that channel. IIRC they looped a daily tape so it was like 4 or 8 hours of the same events, repeated. It was very disappointing, IMHO and full of Sony HD commercials.


All the good stuff was on SD. But now I think they will have it like their regular digital channel, at least I hope so. And as far as USA goes, I'm on board with you on that one.














. They probably can still add some more HD and I'll bet they will add USA to keep subscribers from going to satellite. Just like they added TBS for the playoffs.


----------



## scherfmd

Hey thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on sat vs cable. I have been watching everything and a ton of it has been helpful and helped me out.


Does anyone here have uverse though? Just from my (limited) understanding, it would seem that a service like uverse has the capibilities to carry more HD channels down the road (and even now) and has the dependibility of cable (no weather related outages).


I do understand that there are limitations with the number of HD feeds that can come into the house at a time (2 I beileve) but I am curious if anyone uses uverse or can either enforce or debunk some of advantages of att.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14188196
> 
> 
> Be thankful the Time Warner gods graced us with five new HD channels this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than they gave us last year with T*BS* HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . HD my a--!!
> 
> 
> Unless SDV comes to be(at least for a portion of NE Ohio) I think this may be all we see as far as HD. I'm still holding out hope that TW picks up USA/NBC networks HD for the Olympics. Dump TBS, nobody watches that s---!



actually TBS is one of the better quality HD Channels I get (along with ESPN/ESPN2/STO/ FoodChannel and HDNET)..


TBS has ML Baseball playoffs on it..so you really don't want to kill it just yet.


what I don't understand..my TNT channel is probably 75% of the HD quality that I get on TBS and they are both owned by the same Company..


NBA playoffs looked Cloudy in HD on TNT compared to what I was getting on ESPN. and TBS Sunday baseball coverage and their picture makes me feel I am at the game



while I agree I don't watch it a lot..its one of the Best HD quality channels I get..


Get rid of all those music channels I dont use and add 3 or 4 more HD Channels...with my luck it will be QVC in HD..just what my wife needs a HD picture of what she buys next..lol


----------



## hookbill




ErieMarty said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14193462
> 
> 
> TBS has ML Baseball playoffs on it..so you really don't want to kill it just yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True. But that is all it's good for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14193462
> 
> 
> Get rid of all those music channels I dont use and add 3 or 4 more HD Channels...*with my luck it will be QVC in HD*..just what my wife needs a HD picture of what she buys next..lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> God forbid!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or how about religious channels? Get rid of them too. And all the ethnic channels. They can go as well. Cartoon channels. When I was a kid we had Saturday Morning and after school. Get rid of them.
> 
> 
> Adult Channels. Are you seriously buying porno on cable? It's free on the internet. Or so my wife tells me.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14193462
> 
> 
> Get rid of all those music channels I dont use and add 3 or 4 more HD Channels



Not to majorly nitpick, but just stating technical facts here: The music channels hardly take up any space at all and CERTAINLY not enough for even one HD channel. If you are talking about the 'Music Choice' channels, they are encoded with the audio taking up most of the bandwidth (probably 256kbps on average for compressed ac3/mp2, possibly less, possibly more.) and the video is standard mpeg2 but cut down to 1 frame per minute or however long each slide is and even then they are heavily compressed so it's taking up negligible bandwidth.


Back when I had passport I had actually tracked it down and they had all 40+ music channels on one QAM channel alongside a couple SD Shopping/talking head channels.


Granted i only listen to a few of those channels on rare occasions, but it's definitely nice to have and really wouldn't be worth getting rid of outright in a 'bandwidth crunch'


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14193632
> 
> 
> Not to majorly nitpick, but just stating technical facts here: The music channels hardly take up any space at all and CERTAINLY not enough for even one HD channel. If you are talking about the 'Music Choice' channels, they are encoded with the audio taking up most of the bandwidth (probably 256kbps on average for compressed ac3/mp2, possibly less, possibly more.) and the video is standard mpeg2 but cut down to 1 frame per minute or however long each slide is and even then they are heavily compressed so it's taking up negligible bandwidth.
> 
> 
> Back when I had passport I had actually tracked it down and they had all 40+ music channels on one QAM channel alongside a couple SD Shopping/talking head channels.
> 
> 
> Granted i only listen to a few of those channels on rare occasions, but it's definitely nice to have and really wouldn't be worth getting rid of outright in a 'bandwidth crunch'



No, the music is fine. It's the stupid MTV's and all that crap. Get rid of that.


And those shopping channels. And what about all those community channels? Why so many of those? And get rid of all analog channels that will free up all kinds of bandwith!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14193462
> 
> 
> actually TBS is one of the better quality HD Channels I get (along with ESPN/ESPN2/STO/ FoodChannel and HDNET)..
> 
> 
> TBS has ML Baseball playoffs on it..so you really don't want to kill it just yet.



Of course you know I would NEVER advocate dumping HD sports. My solution would be to move the HD MLB events from TBS to the HD Bonus channel that carried FSN Ohio Cavs HD feed. Other than MLB and the Office, 95% of TBS programming is stretchovision garbage I won't even look at. On top of that TBS has the worst bugs/snipes. Time to change that old saying, "OAR or Death"!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14193840
> 
> 
> And get rid of all analog channels that will free up all kinds of bandwith!



That's eventually where this is all going to go. They just have to figure out how to get cheap (to them) boxes out there. I'm guessing it'll happen 2-3 years after the DTV transition on the OTA side. And of course, Massillon/Clear Picture is already doing this next year.


In other semi-related news, they may be working on digital substitution on a bunch - roughly a dozen or so - analog channels. I'm seeing 800-series analog simulcasts of channels like Headline News, the Weather Channel, and assorted other expanded basic channels. They're above the foreign language block that developed in the 800's after the realignment.


This is similar to when they did digital simulcast of 3/5/8/19, and "held" the analog versions up at 803/804/805/808, which we uncovered here.


So far, it appears the original analog expanded channels are still analog on a digital cable box. And I'll assume they're staying there for those without a box.


But the more of this they do, the easier it becomes for them to eventually end non-box analog basic and get everyone at least on low-cost boxes to replace that... then, they'll have truckloads of bandwidth for HD! In theory










Again, I don't expect that move to happen until a ways after the 2/17/09 OTA transition...just due to logistics and customer concern.


----------



## Lighting Guy

I've been away for a while again cause we were in the process of moving. Since it involves TW (and HD), I'll tell my story.


If you don't know already, I use QAM for my HD programming via TWC. We moved to an old house in Richmond Heights, so about 16 miles or so from the antenna farm. I had an appointment scheduled for TWC to come out this past Friday and do cable and internet install (basic cable so I could get QAM channels). I wasn't there, but my wife said the dude showed up, did his thing and left. We didn't have any tvs or computers set up yet, so he couldn't have actually tested anything (except with his signal meter I suppose).


I get moved in and get my tv and computer set up real late Saturday night, to find out my DTV cable 3-1 channel isn't coming in. Well that's strange I think, since all the channels should be the same now with the re-alignment. So I try a channel scan, and come up with 4 analog stations, NO DIGITAL stations. Awesome.










So I boot up my computer, my web browser redirects me to a "Welcome to TWC" blah blah, the point was it gave me my modem's MAC address, and said to call this number and have my modem registered. Why didn't the tech do this like they are supposed to? CSR didn't have any answers, tried some stuff, and transfered me to national tech support. I was seriously on the phone with this guy for an hour, because we could not understand each other. (The only reason I didn't hang up and call back, was how could I explain everything again, and get back to national). I don't know who did what, but now internet works.


Back to the tv, sorry for the off topic. Now they need a truck roll, can't get out until next week. Holy crap.


SO, on the roof of this house, is a decent sized antenna. I hook that up, and funny enough I bring in like 3 digital stations, WKYC being one of them. Ironic I think since it is usually the hardest to pull in. I recently found a UHF antenna in the attic, but I'm confused because I can get ABC (comes in and out though), but not Fox and CW. But VHF, I can get WKYC, but not WOIO. Weird.


Sorry for the super long post, if you're even still reading, my question is how is my internet working, but I don't have any Digital stations via QAM? Aren't they the same frequency?


Anybody want to feel sorry for me and my TWC experience? I almost pulled the trigger on directv with the new house, I'll be rethinking after this crock.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14200462
> 
> 
> Anybody want to feel sorry for me and my TWC experience? I almost pulled the trigger on directv with the new house, I'll be rethinking after this crock.



I wanted D* from the moment I moved into my house 4 years ago. I have no clean line of sight so I have to use cable.


I would dump cable in a heartbeat if I could get a satellite signal. But now I've got lifetime service with TiVo, and I still have my trees so it's a no go for me.


But you have a true opportunity to get away from cable. I'd do it if I were you.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14200462
> 
> 
> my question is how is my internet working, but I don't have any Digital stations via QAM? Aren't they the same frequency?



They're on different frequencies. There could be a number of issues going on, from low levels to a legacy trap that wasn't removed. Have you checked the signal level in the cable modem via it's diagnostic page? This might offer a clue.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14200696
> 
> 
> They're on different frequencies. There could be a number of issues going on, from low levels to a legacy trap that wasn't removed. Have you checked the signal level in the cable modem via it's diagnostic page? This might offer a clue.





> Quote:
> Downstream Value
> 
> Frequency 117000000 Hz
> 
> 
> Signal To Noise Ratio 37.7 dB
> 
> 
> Power Level -4.8 dBmV
> 
> The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading
> 
> 
> 
> Upstream Value
> 
> Channel ID 21
> 
> Frequency 33000000 Hz
> 
> Power 45.5 dBmV



From what I've been reading that -4.8 is within spec, and although the 45 is higher, its still ok. Mostly I'm just worried that the TWC guy is going to come out on Monday, and say I need a new line drop, which of course is someone else's job.


Shouldn't the tech on Friday have tested the levels with his meter? Also, shouldn't he have removed any traps that would block everything (except internet frequency I guess)?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14203420
> 
> 
> Shouldn't the tech on Friday have tested the levels with his meter? Also, shouldn't he have removed any traps that would block everything (except internet frequency I guess)?



If you didn't see him check it then he may not have. If you think you are having a signal problem, schedule a service call. Have them check every connection all the way out to the pole or box, whatever is in your neighborhood.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14204017
> 
> 
> If you didn't see him check it then he may not have. If you think you are having a signal problem, schedule a service call. Have them check every connection all the way out to the pole or box, whatever is in your neighborhood.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14203420
> 
> 
> Mostly I'm just worried that the TWC guy is going to come out on Monday, and say I need a new line drop, which of course is someone else's job.



Sorry that's what I meant when I said that; I do have a service call set up for Monday (that I will be there for), and I mentioned that just my wife was there on Friday for the install, and she didn't watch him.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14203420
> 
> 
> From what I've been reading that -4.8 is within spec, and although the 45 is higher, its still ok. Mostly I'm just worried that the TWC guy is going to come out on Monday, and say I need a new line drop, which of course is someone else's job.
> 
> 
> Shouldn't the tech on Friday have tested the levels with his meter? Also, shouldn't he have removed any traps that would block everything (except internet frequency I guess)?



117mhz is just above the FM radio band, fairly low in frequency. Those HD QAMs are way up there above 500mhz. It's entirely possible that you've got high end rolloff.


Also, -4.8dbmv is not bad for a modem, well within the SCTE specs, but I'd rather see it closer to 0dbmv. Either way a signal level check is in order.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> 117mhz is just above the FM radio band












That is in the aircraft band. Any egress may adversely affect communication in planes.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14214386
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is in the aircraft band. Any egress may adversely affect communication in planes.



Yes. That's why the cable industry has complied with the FCC frequency offset requirements of +12.5khz in the aircraft voice bands and +25khz in the ILS bands. The FAA requested this of the FCC back in the 90s. It's also why the FCC has stringent rules limiting RF leakage, and they require cable systems to monitor leakage and report back regarding problems and fixes. 20mv/meter is the limit for RF energy at the typical point of measurement.


----------



## hookbill

I don't know if this is true and I haven't tried it myself but I am hearing that Comcast in some areas are having their reps tell people that the only way they will be able to get television after 7/09 is by cable. There will be no more OTA broadcasting.


I'm kind of curious to see if TW is doing the same thing. I thought about sending an email but I think the true test would be to call them. Say something like, "you know, I think with digital tv and all I may just dump cable" and see what they say.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14226441
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is true and I haven't tried it myself but I am hearing that Comcast in some areas are having their reps tell people that the only way they will be able to get television after 7/09 is by cable. There will be no more OTA broadcasting.
> 
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see if TW is doing the same thing. I thought about sending an email but I think the true test would be to call them. Say something like, "you know, I think with digital tv and all I may just dump cable" and see what they say.



There will always be CSRs who are not 100% up on the facts. They may understand that any customer that has their cable service will be ok after the transition. They might take this knowledge and articulate it to a customer in an imperfect manner. That doesn't mean The Company is actively trying to deceive.


I know that Comcast has been as aggressive as the other MSOs in educating their staff about the transition, and they're doing it in a responsible manner.


My concern is that the broadcasters aren't doing nearly enough to educate the viewers on the possible need for a better antenna, maybe even an antenna rotor, in addition to that Coupon Eligible Converter Box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14227040
> 
> 
> There will always be CSRs who are not 100% up on the facts. They may understand that any customer that has their cable service will be ok after the transition. They might take this knowledge and articulate it to a customer in an imperfect manner. That doesn't mean The Company is actively trying to deceive.



Yes, but CSR often get credit for customer retention. So while they may not be telling the CSR's that there will be no broadcast television it doesn't mean that they are discouraging them either.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14227040
> 
> 
> I know that Comcast has been as aggressive as the other MSOs in educating their staff about the transition, and they're doing it in a responsible manner.



I realize you have some kind of inside source or may be involved in cable tv directly, but I think this is just as speculative as my statement above is.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14227040
> 
> 
> My concern is that the broadcasters aren't doing nearly enough to educate the viewers on the possible need for a better antenna, maybe even an antenna rotor, in addition to that Coupon Eligible Converter Box.



Here's where we totally disagree. I have seen On Fox 8 news many times the explanation of the difference between HDTV and Digital television. This link is on the front page and answers all kinds of questions. In addition they frequently mention this on the news and advice people to go to their website for more info.


WKYC provides this link which discusses antennas and other digital television matters, also on the front page.


WEWS did not have anything that I could find on the front page, but a search will get you some information.


And believe it or not right here on WOIO of all places is another link on the front page that has detailed explanation about the change.


Plus I've heard many advertisements about the change, not only on local channels but on CNN and such. While it doesn't discuss antennas, which I agree is an issue it still does talk about the converter box and coupons.


So I really don't understand why you don't think they are doing a good job of informing the public about the transition. It seems to me that they started talking about it even before 2008 got here. I don't know what else they could do.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I agree about the plugging/advertising/informing of the the transition to digital. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it. If I could go one day without hearing about 1)transition to digital tv 2)Obama/McCain 3)what some stupid idiot put on Utube... I would be one happy camper







.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14228005
> 
> 
> Yes, but CSR often get credit for customer retention. So while they may not be telling the CSR's that there will be no broadcast television it doesn't mean that they are discouraging them either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I realize you have some kind of inside source or may be involved in cable tv directly, but I think this is just as speculative as my statement above is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's where we totally disagree. I have seen On Fox 8 news many times the explanation of the difference between HDTV and Digital television. This link is on the front page and answers all kinds of questions. In addition they frequently mention this on the news and advice people to go to their website for more info.
> 
> 
> WKYC provides this link which discusses antennas and other digital television matters, also on the front page.
> 
> 
> WEWS did not have anything that I could find on the front page, but a search will get you some information.
> 
> 
> And believe it or not right here on WOIO of all places is another link on the front page that has detailed explanation about the change.
> 
> 
> Plus I've heard many advertisements about the change, not only on local channels but on CNN and such. While it doesn't discuss antennas, which I agree is an issue it still does talk about the converter box and coupons.
> 
> 
> So I really don't understand why you don't think they are doing a good job of informing the public about the transition. It seems to me that they started talking about it even before 2008 got here. I don't know what else they could do.



The media is definitely doing their part in making this whole digital switch known to the public. If people don't do their part in buying the necessary equipment, then it's just their own stupidity. When they see that they aren't getting any channels with their antenna any more, I'm sure they'll wonder what's happening and figure it out. It seems like all the local channels and cable channels have been showing commercials about this. Haven't digital OTA channels been on for like 10 years already?? It's ridiculous how slow this transition has been going and moved back.


As far as the antenna situation goes, I'm sure people will figure that out. I use the indoor HDTVi antenna, which is one of those directional, pointy, triangular shaped antennas with rabbit ears. It works well for an indoor antenna. I recently purchased the new Insignia digital tuner from Best Buy with my $40 coupon and took it up to Ontario Canada last week. I could pick up several stations from the States that were well outside the FCC coverage area maps with my antenna.


Does anyone know about these tuners they sell for around $50?? These seem to perform slightly better than the older models I purchased a few years ago. Here in Akron, I don't have any problems getting 3, 5, 8, 17, 19, 43, 49, 55, 61, and 67. I used to have to adjust the antenna to get all of these.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14226441
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is true and I haven't tried it myself but I am hearing that Comcast in some areas are having their reps tell people that the only way they will be able to get television after 7/09 is by cable. There will be no more OTA broadcasting.
> 
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see if TW is doing the same thing. I thought about sending an email but I think the true test would be to call them. Say something like, "you know, I think with digital tv and all I may just dump cable" and see what they say.



What Time Warner really needs to do is stop telling people they can get cable TV without a box. Start forcing new customers to get digital cable(which is all I see on their commercials). Get all the new customers boxes then they can start upgrading existing subscribers and finally put an end to this analog bulls***.


Or just make the PQ on analog cable even worse than it currently is and customers will be beating down the doors to get a box


----------



## nickdawg

Right now flipping through channels I came across a commercial from the cable industry(?) about digital TV. They also said that you can still use antennas with an upgrade(converter box). Why cable said this, I don't know. But they said it.


----------



## Andrew K

Has anyone noticed the DT application WOIO has to increase its power to from 3.5 kW to 10.3 kW and antenna height from 304 meters to 361 meters. Unfortunately, it remains on digital channel 10.


----------



## nickdawg

Time Warner Digital Cable>Akron


Flipping through the channels I came across SNL. The PQ looks terrible. The letterbox bars are almost a dark grey looking color instead of the usual black. The difference is obvious with the black sidebars on my TV. It seems like a show issue since the commercials had the normal darker black bars.


For my non-HD TV I cannot wait until they start downgrading the HD/digital signal for SD digital cable. The current analog upconversion looks like s***.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/14228270
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed the DT application WOIO has to increase its power to from 3.5 kW to 10.3 kW and antenna height from 304 meters to 361 meters. Unfortunately, it remains on digital channel 10.



This is very good news. WOIO-DT drops out occasionally here in Salem at its current antenna height and power levels. At the new power level and antenna height (1114.5 feet above ground level), transmitting on channel 10 becomes an advantage.


----------



## paule123

WVIZ continues to be an epic failure. Now I hate to admit it but there's a certain Soundstage on right now from my high school years that I might be inclined to throw a few bucks WVIZ way. But since I can't see it HD OTA they won't get a dime from me.

Too bad they won't be HD until AFTER the digital transition, so f**k them.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14228496
> 
> 
> WVIZ continues to be an epic failure. Now I hate to admit it but there's a certain Soundstage on right now from my high school years that I might be inclined to throw a few bucks WVIZ way. But since I can't see it HD OTA they won't get a dime from me.
> 
> Too bad they won't be HD until AFTER the digital transition, so f**k them.



Can you get WNEO-HD? I get WNEO HD and WVIZ on cable plus I was able to pull in WNEO OTA in Akron.


WNEO mops the floor with WVIZ. WNEO broadcasts in 5.1 plus they do not have two worthless subchannels eating their bandwidth(as WVIZ does).


----------



## magnani




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14226441
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is true and I haven't tried it myself but I am hearing that Comcast in some areas are having their reps tell people that the only way they will be able to get television after 7/09 is by cable. There will be no more OTA broadcasting.
> 
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see if TW is doing the same thing. I thought about sending an email but I think the true test would be to call them. Say something like, "you know, I think with digital tv and all I may just dump cable" and see what they say.



Funny, we must have heard this from the same guy - pomerlp - in the Tivo forum , but I don't think there is any truth to it either.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/14228107
> 
> 
> The media is definitely doing their part in making this whole digital switch known to the public. If people don't do their part in buying the necessary equipment, then it's just their own stupidity. When they see that they aren't getting any channels with their antenna any more, I'm sure they'll wonder what's happening and figure it out. It seems like all the local channels and cable channels have been showing commercials about this. Haven't digital OTA channels been on for like 10 years already?? It's ridiculous how slow this transition has been going and moved back.



The media is making the switch known, but I really don't think they're covering the details enough. I've talked to (read: "tested") numerous Best Buy, Radio Shack, and other typical consumer store employees, giving them a wide range of scenarios, and not a single one of them has brought up antenna quality. Even the FCC site just asks "do you have an antenna?". They just tell me I'll need a converter box.


As we've discussed on this forum, getting the right antenna is key for DTV reception.


I have a decent outdoor antenna at my shop in Massillon. We're slightly higher than the average elevation in the area, and the antenna is on a 10' tower on the roof. I can receive the Cleveland analog stations pretty well, at least to the point of being watchable without too much noise. However, digital reception has been shaky at best - the UHF elements on the antenna just aren't up to the task. As an experiment, we moved the antenna to a 30' mast and had a guy stand on the roof and hold the thing (careful balancing required) while we ran some tests - the additional 20 feet of elevation significantly improved digital reception - most of the Cleveland stations came in OK (except WKYC).


I now have 40' of tower ready to be installed to take care of the situation, but I can easily see how a lot of people may not realize there's more to the conversion than just purchasing a box. A lot of outdoor antennas out there were designed to handle primarily VHF, with UHF sort of "tacked on". When you take the VHF-to-UHF conversion into play, plus the lack of anyone suggesting that antennas might need to be upgraded, I can't blame Joe Customer for being completely surprised when he can't pick up any stations come February.


If you don't have a problem with heights (I prefer Terra Firma when possible), now might be a good time to get into the antenna installation business...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14228051
> 
> 
> I agree about the plugging/advertising/informing of the the transition to digital. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about it. If I could go one day without hearing about 1)transition to digital tv 2)Obama/McCain 3)what some stupid idiot put on Utube... I would be one happy camper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I'd like to add one other thing. FOX 8 continues to talk about American Idol. Last week they had a story about a former "contestant" getting married. Who cares, and please stop.


----------



## jtscherne

So they can't work out an agreement with another company to put up an antenna and it's their fault? The fact is that they finally found an alternative, even though it will take longer. In addition, the local schedule is not an HD simulcast at this point, so the Soundstage show wouldn't have been in HD last night anyway. Once again, that's not WVIZ's fault...


I just looked at the HD schedule and it turns out the Soundstage show will be on the national digital channel this afternoon at 2:00, so it will be available if you get the WVIZ channel... However, my general point is still the same: the channel is doing what it can with what amounts to a shoestring budget.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14228496
> 
> 
> WVIZ continues to be an epic failure. Now I hate to admit it but there's a certain Soundstage on right now from my high school years that I might be inclined to throw a few bucks WVIZ way. But since I can't see it HD OTA they won't get a dime from me.
> 
> Too bad they won't be HD until AFTER the digital transition, so f**k them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *magnani* /forum/post/14228632
> 
> 
> Funny, we must have heard this from the same guy - pomerlp - in the Tivo forum , but I don't think there is any truth to it either.



Right forum, wrong person. Thread was started by The Green Hornet, but you knew that.


Guys let me introduce you to magnani who also goes by the name of Sooka on the TiVo Forum. He was has a problem . You see for some reason he hates me so much that almost every post he has ever made over there is a negative comment about me . He is a stalker of sorts. He has a total of 9 post, 8 of which are negative towards me and one to one of my buddies, brierboy. That's also a negative comment.


Now he goes under the name of "sooka" and he attempts to try to find out what account I am using in the TiVo forum, on this name pomerlp he is dead wrong. He gathers his little evidence and then pm's me with threats like "your going to get what you deserve."


And he's also pretty dumb to think I don't remember who he is and come in here. The proof is all there guys, just look at the links.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...archid=3975589


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14229799
> 
> 
> Right forum, wrong person. Thread was started by The Green Hornet, but you knew that.
> 
> 
> Guys let me introduce you to magnani who also goes by the name of Sooka on the TiVo Forum. He was has a problem . You see for some reason he hates me so much that almost every post he has ever made over there is a negative comment about me . He is a stalker of sorts. He has a total of 9 post, 8 of which are negative towards me and one to one of my buddies, brierboy. That's also a negative comment.
> 
> 
> Now he goes under the name of "sooka" and he attempts to try to find out what account I am using in the TiVo forum, on this name pomerlp he is dead wrong. He gathers his little evidence and then pm's me with threats like "your going to get what you deserve."
> 
> 
> And he's also pretty dumb to think I don't remember who he is and come in here. The proof is all there guys, just look at the links.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...archid=3975589



I dunno, sounds like he's got some legitimate complaints there







.

Seriously though, hopefully he doesn't turn into a real stalker







. He sure does seem to have a hard on for you though.

It was probably one little comment you made one time that got under his skin, and now his obsessive-compulsive brain can't let it go.

Don't know about the TiVo forums, but at least here at AVS, if he gets fresh with you, you can just report him.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14228005
> 
> 
> Yes, but CSR often get credit for customer retention. So while they may not be telling the CSR's that there will be no broadcast television it doesn't mean that they are discouraging them either.



They're not going to go against the ads that the cable company itself is running, regarding the digital transition. They're advertising the same facts that the broadcasters are running.



> Quote:
> I realize you have some kind of inside source or may be involved in cable tv directly, but I think this is just as speculative as my statement above is.



You can believe what you wish, Hookbill. I offer my opinions without warranty, but I do have some specific knowledge of the situation.



> Quote:
> Here's where we totally disagree. I have seen On Fox 8 news many times the explanation of the difference between HDTV and Digital television. This link is on the front page and answers all kinds of questions. In addition they frequently mention this on the news and advice people to go to their website for more info.



Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to those national DTV ads that everyone is running, such as the one with the older gentleman standing in the middle of the desert. The local stations have picked up the ball in the past 6-8 months and placed a lot of good information on their websites, and I commend them for that. However, I still think it's going to be a rude awakening in February when many try to hook up their CECBs for the first time and discover that their existing antenna doesn't cut it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14230152
> 
> 
> You can believe what you wish, Hookbill. I offer my opinions without warranty, but I do have some specific knowledge of the situation.



If it appeared that I was saying "I don't believe you" that's not quite what I meant. I recognize you have some insight as I said earlier. No offense was meant.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14230152
> 
> 
> Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was referring to those national DTV ads that everyone is running, such as the one with the older gentleman standing in the middle of the desert. The local stations have picked up the ball in the past 6-8 months and placed a lot of good information on their websites, and I commend them for that. However, I still think it's going to be a rude awakening in February when many try to hook up their CECBs for the first time and discover that their existing antenna doesn't cut it.



I'm not quite sure which ad you're talking about. Is it the one where it simply says "come Feb.9, 2009 unless you're prepared, you will not have anything?"


If that's the one I thought there was some information on the bottom of the screen. Maybe if your watching stretched on SD you don't see it?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14230014
> 
> 
> I dunno, sounds like he's got some legitimate complaints there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Hey I didn't say his complaints wern't legit.







Just obsessive. I mean 9 post and 8 of them are directed at me?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14230014
> 
> 
> Seriously though, hopefully he doesn't turn into a real stalker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . He sure does seem to have a hard on for you though.
> 
> It was probably one little comment you made one time that got under his skin, and now his obsessive-compulsive brain can't let it go.
> 
> Don't know about the TiVo forums, but at least here at AVS, if he gets fresh with you, you can just report him.



Oh he certainly does stock me, trust me. I don't see how someone can have the time it takes to track me around the way he does to try and identify me IF I were a member of the TCF under another name which of course I'm not.










But he does have the wrong guy this time. He has been right on several occassions but to be honest when I have created an account on the TCF I don't really try to hide my personality and I do repeat comments I make in other post. I noticed that this person was talking about customer service so I assume that since I mentioned over here I was a CSR he thinks I'm that person. Other then that I don't have a clue, but he gave himself away this time.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14230359
> 
> 
> If it appeared that I was saying "I don't believe you" that's not quite what I meant. I recognize you have some insight as I said earlier. No offense was meant.



No offense taken, Hookbill.



> Quote:
> I'm not quite sure which ad you're talking about. Is it the one where it simply says "come Feb.9, 2009 unless you're prepared, you will not have anything?"



That's one of them, yes. My set isn't overscanned so I do see the link to the DTV website. There are similar ads that mention something to the effect that "all you need is the converter box." thsoe ads are so coy that they wind up looking like those pharmaceutical ads that show people walking through the park, swinging on a swing, laughing, and telling the audience to "ask your doctor if XYZ is right for you" without mentioning any specifics at all.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14230495
> 
> 
> That's one of them, yes. My set isn't overscanned so I do see the link to the DTV website. There are similar ads that mention something to the effect that "all you need is the converter box." thsoe ads are so coy that they wind up looking like those pharmaceutical ads that show people walking through the park, swinging on a swing, laughing, and telling the audience to "ask your doctor if XYZ is right for you" without mentioning any specifics at all.



I will say this about the antenna thing. I have already met a person at work who told me she was not happy about the digital change. She said she's already seen it and it's not that great, mentioned pixelation and sound drop offs only she didn't say it in that way. I knew what she was talking about and thought about explaining some things to her but you know how you can tell when a person has already made up their mind so I didn't get into it with her.


And that, I assume, is where you are coming from when you say how many people are going to be taken back when this change happens. Andrew K mentioned the indoor antenna but what works for him may not work for others.


I can see it on the day of the switch, reporters interviewing angry people and really blowing the whole thing into a huge deal. I do believe however that it won't last very long and people will figure out what to do.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14229168
> 
> 
> So they can't work out an agreement with another company to put up an antenna and it's their fault?



I joined AVS in 2002. It's been SIX years (soon to be seven years) since WVIZ has been promising "next summer". You get to a point where you have to wonder about the management at WVIZ and whether digital TV was really a priority to them. They spent money on the slick "Ideastream" re-branding, built a new studio downtown ...


nickdawg is correct, WNEO/WEAO gets it right and does a nice job. It's sad that the "flagship" PBS station (WVIZ) in the "big city" lets it's little brother down in Akron kick it's butt in the HD department.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14231213
> 
> 
> I joined AVS in 2002. It's been SIX years (soon to be seven years) since WVIZ has been promising "next summer". You get to a point where you have to wonder about the management at WVIZ and whether digital TV was really a priority to them. They spent money on the slick "Ideastream" re-branding, built a new studio downtown...



They have been working on it all that time; the owners of the tower were making it difficult for them. They've finally given up on that location and entered into an angreement with another local broadcaster to get a good spot on a new tower they're building. It looks like this problem has been resolved, although it will be awhile before they're ready at the new site. Lots of things have to happen first, including a new STL path.


----------



## nickdawg

WVIZ=LAME CRAP!! I don't even give them the time of day. Whenever I look at PBS it's always WNEO (channel 10 or 410). It's been that way since I was young(since WNEO ran cartoons and Sesame Street until 6:30pm, longer than WVIZ). And now I prefer WNEO HD since they broadcast in 5.1 and they were the only PBS on cable until last year. I was pretty pissed they wasted the bandwidth on WVIZ before WBNX. WVIZ HD is the EXACT same thing as WNEO HD, only awful-presented in 2.0 stereo. Plus VIZ has TWO bandwidth eating subchannels. The Ohio Channel and something called "PBS World" that just showed up on my cable lineup. Just an overcompressed piece of crap.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14233975
> 
> 
> WVIZ=LAME CRAP!! I don't even give them the time of day. Whenever I look at PBS it's always WNEO (channel 10 or 410). It's been that way since I was young(since WNEO ran cartoons and Sesame Street until 6:30pm, longer than WVIZ). And now I prefer WNEO HD since they broadcast in 5.1 and they were the only PBS on cable until last year. I was pretty pissed they wasted the bandwidth on WVIZ before WBNX. WVIZ HD is the EXACT same thing as WNEO HD, only awful-presented in 2.0 stereo. Plus VIZ has TWO bandwidth eating subchannels. The Ohio Channel and something called "PBS World" that just showed up on my cable lineup. Just an overcompressed piece of crap.



Dontcha just hate it when he's right!

















Yes, it is very disappointing to see something that might like to watch on PBS and no DD5.1 as well. I can't comment on pq since I can't compare it with WNEO but I'm sure dawg is right. This time.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14233975
> 
> 
> WVIZ=LAME CRAP!! I don't even give them the time of day. Whenever I look at PBS it's always WNEO (channel 10 or 410). It's been that way since I was young(since WNEO ran cartoons and Sesame Street until 6:30pm, longer than WVIZ). And now I prefer WNEO HD since they broadcast in 5.1 and they were the only PBS on cable until last year. I was pretty pissed they wasted the bandwidth on WVIZ before WBNX. WVIZ HD is the EXACT same thing as WNEO HD, only awful-presented in 2.0 stereo. Plus VIZ has TWO bandwidth eating subchannels. The Ohio Channel and something called "PBS World" that just showed up on my cable lineup. Just an overcompressed piece of crap.



It's nice living out here in the boonies! I receive The digital broadcasts of WNEO, WEAO, WQED (Pittsburgh) and WOUC (Cambridge). If one of 'em is having a technical problem, I just swing the antenna around to pick up one of the others.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14234301
> 
> 
> ...but I'm sure dawg is right. This time.



Have you two ever met each other in person? Just wondering.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14231284
> 
> 
> It looks like this problem has been resolved, although it will be awhile before they're ready at the new site. Lots of things have to happen first, including a new STL path.



Big difference here: As opposed to basically fighting tooth and nail with the owner of the tower where their analog signal is, WVIZ will have cooperation from WKYC at the start this time.


I'm sure they'll have it in hand before 2/17/09, which is really the only date that counts in this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14234301
> 
> 
> Dontcha just hate it when he's right!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is very disappointing to see something that might like to watch on PBS and no DD5.1 as well. I can't comment on pq since I can't compare it with WNEO but I'm sure dawg is right. This time.



Why can't you compare? Tivo doesn't get WNEO?










Several times I've tuned in to WVIZ and just found a black screen with just the bug on. Seen this on SD too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14240309
> 
> 
> Why can't you compare? Tivo doesn't get WNEO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



nickdawg, I'm going to make this so easy that maybe even you can follow the directions. Go to www.zap2it.com . Copy and paste if typing is difficult. Then when you get there click on change my location. Type 44202. It will give you the lineups available for this area.


You will then see that we do not get WNEO HD. At one time it was on our guide but we still didn't get it. Never have.


Now do you get it?

















Oh and one more thing. You've been taking some shots at my TiVo and I've been letting it go do to popular demand. However I'm about tired of it so the next time you do it, prepare for me to onload on you.


By the way you still loving that Navigator software? Like the way it lets you pick first run only? What? It doesn't do that? Passport did, didn't it? And how about those great program descriptions you were talking about.


Well at least now they've enabled the feature that allows you to acknowledge programs that you like by giving the thumbs up or down so your DVR can record on it's own what it thinks you might like.


Oh, come on! TiVo's had that since it was first invented around 1998!


Hey and that wishlist feature they added hows that working? Oh, I'm sorry you don't have that do you? Well at least you can program from the internet!


Now come on you mean you can't do that either? Crap! Well at least their is podcast and you can download to your computer for shows to watch on other devices like i-pod and such.


Oh God, you can't do that either! And you can't play your music from your computer to your amplifier with Navigator?


And of course since TW thinks like you they have kids zone and other types of guru guides. Wait what's that you say? You don't have that either?


How about showing digital photos from your computer? Oh that's right you can't do ANYTHING with the computer!


Well you do get those precious VOD's which you can get off a regular box anyway. That's a huge plus.










Whoops, looks like I went off on your ass anyway. I apologize to the other members of the forum. I'll try to get it back under control again.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I can't stop laughing right now...


----------



## jtscherne

I would laugh, but I'm too busy just shaking my head...











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14240521
> 
> 
> I can't stop laughing right now...


----------



## nickdawg

I'm well aware of what features my box has as well as Tivo. I don't need all those features and they did not justify the $900 price tag(when I first looked at Tivo).


I can do whatever I want with my computer. My HDTV set has a RGB computer input(makes my TV a large computer monitor).


Plus I have the headphone to L/R audio cable so I can plug my IPOD into an extra input on my surround system.


As far as pictures, I can plug in the video output of my camera into the side AUX input. Or I can plug the USB cable directly into my TV and make a slideshow. Or I can organize and arrange the pictures on my computer and connect that to the TV.


And yes, Navigator does have First Run recording. I set it up to record my summer cable shows(Rescue Me, In Plain Sight, Burn Notice) and it only records the first run on its regular night.


And no my DVR doesn't have a mind of its own recording whatever it wants. I'd be pretty scared if it did that. THE MACHINES ARE TAKING OVER!!! No online scheduling or thumbs up/down. Again, I do not need that. If I hate a show I give it the middle finger and flip the channel.










Also, no podcasting. Again, don't need it. Why would I want to watch my shows on a ~2 inch screen when I have a 50 inch in my living room?


You really "whooped" me.
























As far as WNEO, I didn't know some areas didn't have it. I thought it was added with the channel realignment. Doesn't make sense.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14240732
> 
> 
> I would laugh, but I'm too busy just shaking my head...



Sorry jtschrene. He has been pushing my buttons a bit and a kind of lost it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14241713
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, Navigator does have First Run recording. I set it up to record my summer cable shows(Rescue Me, In Plain Sight, Burn Notice) and it only records the first run on its regular night.



I thought you said it didn't. TiVo will find another showing if there is a conflict with other recordings. That IMHO is a huge difference. I also know you wern't happy with the descriptions and you had several other complaints that you've gotten mighty quiet about.


If you set Navigator to record all however, that's exactly what it will do. So if the same episode shows up twice on the same night it will record it every time it is shown. TiVo has a 28 day rule and will not record an episode when set in that mode that has already been recorded



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14241713
> 
> 
> And no my DVR doesn't have a mind of its own recording whatever it wants. I'd be pretty scared if it did that. *THE MACHINES ARE TAKING OVER!!!* No online scheduling or thumbs up/down. Again, I do not need that. If I hate a show I give it the middle finger and flip the channel.



ROFLOL. I agree, I don't use that feature myself but I threw that in there just because I wanted to make sure you got the whole picture. And I totally agree with your point about spending money unnecessarily however I do wish you'd stop saying 900.00, it's not even half that much and it truly does pay for itself when you take it the cost of rental and TW's own service fees. But on line scheduling is nice, ask any D* owner.


Now if you quit taking pot shots at me I promise not to go on a rant again. But really guys he does take little shots at me and in the famous words of Popeye, "Olive, I's can stands what I's cans stands, and I can't stands anymore."


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Go to www.zap2it.com . Copy and paste if typing is difficult. Then when you get there click on change my location. Type 44202. It will give you the lineups available for this area.



I tried it and every version of TW in NEO showed up (Macedonia, Macedonia rebuild, etc.) Do customers know if they are hooked to the "rebuild"?


BTW: You should not get WNEO-DT, but you better be getting WEAO-DT.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14246516
> 
> 
> I tried it and every version of TW in NEO showed up (Macedonia, Macedonia rebuild, etc.) Do customers know if they are hooked to the "rebuild"?
> 
> 
> BTW: You should not get WNEO-DT, but you better be getting WEAO-DT.



True, but my system is not in Macedonia Rebuild it is in Cleveland Rebuild. Macedonia does not come up as a choice as I live in Geauga County.


I chose Cleveland Digital rebuild, but Franklin was at one time one of my choices at one time. I think I will try a channel rescan and see if I can still get Franklin. If I can then I can get WNEO HD.


Yes, we know about the rebuild. Look at Cleveland Digital and you will see that we don't get WNEO HD.


----------



## hookbill

I ran guided set up choosing Franklin Digital. However when you get the test stations they don't match up so I am stuck with WVIZ.


I suppose it goes by head end so those of us in the Cleveland Digital Rebuild are stuck.


Channel 34 is MTV on the Franklin Digital, however I get CNN on that channel.


----------



## Inundated

I have the former Adelphia realigned lineup that shows up in Zap2It's "Cleveland rebuild" selection.


We've never had WNEO/WEAO's HD feed, even though it was added to the printed lineup almost immediately back when TWC took over Adelphia.


(BTW, I assume it'd technically be WEAO-DT, since WNEO-DT doesn't really reach anywhere near Cleveland.)


I suspect TWC was interested in adding it, but held back because WEAO's HD feed is the same 24/7 PBS HD feed already carried by WVIZ, which is already on the former Adelphia systems.


----------



## clevemkt

It is my understanding that PBS plans to begin their full HD/SD main feed later this year and at that time WNEO and WEAO will make that their primary program feed with the PBS and local programming integrated on 45.1 and 49.1. My guess is TWC will then carry both local PBS stations in Cleveland, as their programming will be different in most dayparts. 45.2 and 49.2 would eventually become another programming stream (also not duplicating 25) It is too bad that TWC isn't consistent throughout their systems especially since, as has been noted above, the audio from WEAO is far better (5.1) than WVIZ's.


----------



## Tim Lones

My wife and I decided to go back to Time Warner for our Cable as our Dish Network contract expires this month (we already have digital phone and Roadrunner)..The TWC Customer service rep quoted us about $127 a month plus tax for what we have now plus one HD DVR in our bedroom and standard (no box) for 2 other TV's..My main question is, What is TWC's HD DVR Box like?..How many hours can it record, picture quality, etc..We figure to save $70-$75 a month going this route..Thanks for any response..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14251102
> 
> 
> My wife and I decided to go back to Time Warner for our Cable as our Dish Network contract expires this month (we already have digital phone and Roadrunner)..The TWC Customer service rep quoted us about $127 a month plus tax for what we have now plus one HD DVR in our bedroom and standard (no box) for 2 other TV's..My main question is, What is TWC's HD DVR Box like?..How many hours can it record, picture quality, etc..We figure to save $70-$75 a month going this route..Thanks for any response..



I wouldn't do that if I were you. You're "savings" will only be for 1 year, that is not a permanent amount and when it goes up you will freak out. In addition if you're use to Dish's DVR when you see what TW offers, you will not be happy at all.


It has 20 hours HD time and you can add an eSATA to it. But I'm warning you, you will get much less HD and a very inferior DVR. No on line programing. Depending on where you live you may not even be able to chose first run only. Search features are horrible. If you are able to pick first run only and there is a conflict it will not look for another episode. It's the bottom line of all DVR's. And unless you plan on getting a TiVo HD which will cost more money you won't have anything as nice as what you have now.


I am a TW customer and the only reason I don't have satellite is because I don't have a clean line of site. The first 100 channels are not digital, they are analog and the locals are 3, 5, 8, 19 are analog upgraded to digital and are terrible.


I use a TiVo S3 and TiVo HD for my DVR, but I have to pay for that service but it's at least reliable.


But if you're looking just to save money, don't be fooled by TW. In the long run it will cost you more.


----------



## Tim Lones

Thanks for the response:

I'm paying 94.04 a month now for just Digital Phone and Roadrunner (plus 106 or so for Dish) Packaged with Cable the $127 quote should be regular price or close to it it seems..Good thing is, I wont be on a contract..I figured the HDDVR wouldnt be as good as Dish..I am in "Legacy" Canton area..I've had TWC before, just not Their HD box..


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14253442
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response:
> 
> I'm paying 94.04 a month now for just Digital Phone and Roadrunner (plus 106 or so for Dish) Packaged with Cable the $127 quote should be regular price or close to it it seems..Good thing is, I wont be on a contract..I figured the HDDVR wouldnt be as good as Dish..I am in "Legacy" Canton area..I've had TWC before, just not Their HD box..



Yeah, you can do better than that. We pay just over 100 dollars a month for regular cable (1 SD box, 1 HD DVR, and 1 HD non-DVR), and Road Runner Turbo (up to 12 megs down). I didn't want to get the Time Warner phone so we got the unlimited Vonage for $25/mth and it has worked great.


When your promotional pricing is over (after a year or whatnot), call them back and ask to get the deal again, or something similar. If the rep says no (which they have never done for me), threaten to move back to Dish, they will find _something_ for you...


----------



## schandorsky

Amherst area, Time Warner: Is anybody else having trouble receiving WBNX HD(407) and Cavaliers HD(436)?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14239689
> 
> 
> Big difference here: As opposed to basically fighting tooth and nail with the owner of the tower where their analog signal is, WVIZ will have cooperation from WKYC at the start this time.
> 
> 
> I'm sure they'll have it in hand before 2/17/09, which is really the only date that counts in this.



IIRC, because of all their problems WVIZ was granted a waiver to go past the Feb 2009 deadline... I'm really not expecting to see WVIZ HD OTA in February.


----------



## clevemkt

Multichannel News is running an article about TWC Navigator issues...


http://www.multichannel.com/article/...ml?q=navigator 


I don't use one but I have seen others are also not happy.


----------



## clevemkt

From WVIZ's recently filed maximization application:



Antenna System and Tower

WVIZ-DT proposes to use a new Dielectric TFU-10GTH-R C170 directional antenna

(specifications attached hereto as Exhibit 1a – Exhibit 1d) which will be part of a new topmounted

WVIZ/WKYC antenna stack that will take the place of the existing WKYC Channel 3

analog antenna. The antenna stack will be placed on the tower (ASR#1013919) at the

coordinates specified above. The overall height of the structure will remain the same (595m

AMSL, with appurtenances) and the WVIZ antenna will have a center of radiation of 590.4m

AMSL (with a calculated HAAT of 336.9m).

Coverage

The entire principal community of Cleveland, OH is well within the predicted F(50,90)

48 dBu contour based on the proposed 150 kW ERP.


Interesting... stack with WKYC... both top-mount antennas... new pattern pulls the signal in some from the south and pushes out some to the east.


No indication that I saw about extending past the Feb 2009 deadline, except for the boilerplate from the engineering consultant about the Canadian issues/specs that are, at best, ambiguous.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14253883
> 
> 
> IIRC, because of all their problems WVIZ was granted a waiver to go past the Feb 2009 deadline... I'm really not expecting to see WVIZ HD OTA in February.



But things have changed...WVIZ is no longer fighting with WNCX/CBS at the old analog site in North Royalton. They're putting a new antenna up on a tower they're building with WKYC, which is a partner with them - not fighting them










One would have to assume that both WKYC and WVIZ will be up by 2/17/09, weather and other construction issues permitting, or shortly thereafter (Spring?). I think both have waivers, but it sounds to me like it's "just in case".


I saw this on Frank Macek's blog:

http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...-on-wkycs.html


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14254720
> 
> 
> But things have changed...WVIZ is no longer fighting with WNCX/CBS at the old analog site in North Royalton. They're putting a new antenna up on a tower they're building with WKYC, which is a partner with them - not fighting them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One would have to assume that both WKYC and WVIZ will be up by 2/17/09, weather and other construction issues permitting, or shortly thereafter (Spring?). I think both have waivers, but it sounds to me like it's "just in case".
> 
> 
> I saw this on Frank Macek's blog:
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...-on-wkycs.html



Inundated... I am curious to the location of the waivers... not doubting, would like to see their wording.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14251102
> 
> 
> My wife and I decided to go back to Time Warner for our Cable as our Dish Network contract expires this month (we already have digital phone and Roadrunner)..The TWC Customer service rep quoted us about $127 a month plus tax for what we have now plus one HD DVR in our bedroom and standard (no box) for 2 other TV's..My main question is, What is TWC's HD DVR Box like?..How many hours can it record, picture quality, etc..We figure to save $70-$75 a month going this route..Thanks for any response..



Tim, I've used TW's HD-DVRs in the past and I've had no trouble with them. They won't do the online programming feature but that doesn't matter to me. It does do their interactive program guide, and because it's a two way device, it supports impulse PPV as well as other features coming down the road. And there's no capital outlay, either up front or if it breaks.


In terms of rates, the only way to know for sure what your rate will be in 12 months is to ask them! We can all speculate till the cows come home, but that won't answer your question with any certainty.


Enjoy your service. I think you've made a good choice.


----------



## Andrew K

I decided to search the FCC website for any updates on construction permits and applications for OTA channels, and I noticed a few new listings I hadn't seen since last time I checked. It seems like most local channels are working on solving any reception issues. Once the transition is complete, any problems should be minimal. Here is what the site shows...


8 WJW 30 kW, 342 m

10 WOIO 10.3 kW, 361 m

15 WEWS 1000 kW, 310 m

17 WKYC 868 kW, 307.1 m

20 WFMJ 460 kW, 295 m

23 WVPX 1000 kW, 301 m

26 WVIZ 150 kW, 336.9 m

28 WUAB 200 kW, 337 m

30 WBNX 1000 kW, 356 m

34 WQHS 525 kW, 333.8 m

36 WYTV 1000 kW, 177 m

39 WDLI 200 kW, 292 m

41 WKBN 700 kW, 418 m

45 WNEO 500 kW, 253 m

47 WOAC 1000 kW, 134 m

50 WEAO 250 kW, 305 m


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14253442
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response:
> 
> I'm paying 94.04 a month now for just Digital Phone and Roadrunner (plus 106 or so for Dish) Packaged with Cable the $127 quote should be regular price or close to it it seems..Good thing is, I wont be on a contract..I figured the HDDVR wouldnt be as good as Dish..I am in "Legacy" Canton area..I've had TWC before, just not Their HD box..



TW internet phone is a rip off too. I use Vonage. I pay 15.99 plus the usual extra, comes out to around 19.99. For that I get 500 outgoing calls. The most I've ever used is 250. 800,866, etc. are free calls. Incoming calls are free. So is caller ID and voice mail. And calling your voice mail doesn't run any higher either. And they have the same 911 service as line phones.


If you call out more then that then you can get the unlimited package for 25.99. Still cheaper then Time Warner. And if your internet or power does go down you can set it to forward to your cell phone.


Time Warner sucks. All cable companies suck.


Signed,


hookbill---I'm an equal oppertunity cable hater.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14251102
> 
> 
> My wife and I decided to go back to Time Warner for our Cable as our Dish Network contract expires this month (we already have digital phone and Roadrunner)..The TWC Customer service rep quoted us about $127 a month plus tax for what we have now plus one HD DVR in our bedroom and standard (no box) for 2 other TV's..My main question is, What is TWC's HD DVR Box like?..How many hours can it record, picture quality, etc..We figure to save $70-$75 a month going this route..Thanks for any response..



Disregard Mr. Hookbill on the Time Warner DVR. He's just a Tivo fanboy and he has past issues with TW and their equipment.


The DVR really isn't that bad. You'll probably have the new Navigator software9if you live in a legacy Time Warner area). It's not as great as the older firmware they used before, but Navigator opens the door for SDV and many new HD channel additions. We already have SDV test channels in the 900s.


The DVR records about 20 hours HD or 90 hours SD. If you have the 8300HD model DVR there is the option to add an external hard drive.


Picture quality is OK. Some of the channels look a bit overcompressed, but that's due to their bandwidth limitations. Also, if you live in a legacy area(Akron definately, maybe Canton[I'm not sure]) ALL of your channels will be digital on TVs with settop boxes(even local SD and channels that used to be under 100!).


Hope this helped.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14256087
> 
> 
> ......Time Warner sucks. All cable companies suck.
> 
> 
> Signed,
> 
> 
> hookbill---I'm an equal oppertunity cable hater.



LOL










A wise man told me many years ago describing the difference between providers:

"all cell phone and cable tv companies suck, the only difference is some suck less than others"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14257821
> 
> 
> Disregard Mr. Hookbill on the Time Warner DVR. He's just a *Tivo fanboy* and he has past issues with TW and their equipment.



True I like TiVo but that wasn't the question. I wasn't comparing TiVo with the SA 8300. I'm comparing Dish's DVR which is so superior to TW I think in all fairness that the person who inquired should know.


And as nickdawg points out I have had issues with their DVR, not only me but many, many others in just getting it to properly record. I didn't even bring that up but since you did I will say that it not only did not record when it was suppose to, it had partial recordings for unknown reasons. It was like a roll of the dice getting the thing to work and I went through 3 different units and had the same problem each time.


In all fairness I didn't mention that in my critique of the SA 8300 but since you opened the door......


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14205623
> 
> 
> Sorry that's what I meant when I said that; I do have a service call set up for Monday (that I will be there for), and I mentioned that just my wife was there on Friday for the install, and she didn't watch him.



For those of you following along, this tech actually did show up on time (I think I've only had them show up on time one other time out of 3 or so, and just plain not show up once). After he fumbled around with my harmony remote for a while, I helped him out. He wasn't really a friendly guy, but I wanted him to hurry up. He hooked up his meter to the main line coming into the house in the basement. I asked him how the signal was, and he said snidely, "I'll let you know in a minute sir." He went out to the pole, came back in, and never told me how the signal was.


He did replace all the connectors at the splitter in the basement, made sure channels 3 and 8 came in, and proceeded to leave. I asked him what was wrong, he said the wrong trap was put on. Wow, my dislike for this company grows every day...


Anyway idiot installer's problem has now been fixed, and my wife is happy with her 10 or so watchable channels, and I'm happy with my locals in HD. I guess the signal was ok...


----------



## Lighting Guy

In response to the chatter about the DTV transition, and informing consumers. I too am annoyed at the constant scrolling, and constant commercials about it. I think that the average consumer is indeed aware that a change is happening, but many don't seem to know exactly how to prepare for it. My in-laws saw the big ol' VHF antenna on my roof the other week when we were moving in, and commented about how that won't be any good in Feb. I said, no, the antenna will work fine with my main tv, because it was the correct (atsc) tuner, and my other tvs will work fine with that antenna when I get "the box." They were like, "oh yeah, oh yeah."


I was checking out the big stack of magnavox CECB's at walmart the other day, and a customer started drilling me about it, asking me if that's all he needs for this transition. I told him if he has cable or satellite for all his tv's he'll be fine, if he uses an antenna, then yes, you'll need one. He started going off on how stupid it was. He wasn't even that old, I can't imagine how bad it will be for the elderly that just want their tv to keep working how it does now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14261082
> 
> 
> For those of you following along, this tech actually did show up on time (I think I've only had them show up on time one other time out of 3 or so, and just plain not show up once). After he fumbled around with my harmony remote for a while, I helped him out. He wasn't really a friendly guy, but I wanted him to hurry up. He hooked up his meter to the main line coming into the house in the basement. I asked him how the signal was, and he said snidely, "I'll let you know in a minute sir." He went out to the pole, came back in, and never told me how the signal was.



Usually they ask for the cable remote. I'm surprised the guy even attempted to use the Harmony. And I hope you learned your lesson, after all he is "Cable Guy" - do not question him!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14261082
> 
> 
> He did replace all the connectors at the splitter in the basement, made sure channels 3 and 8 came in, and proceeded to leave. I asked him what was wrong, he said the wrong trap was put on. Wow, my dislike for this company grows every day...



If you have any splitters that are not TW's then they will replace them. Doesn't matter if it's brand new and better. Standard operating procedures.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14261082
> 
> 
> Anyway idiot installer's problem has now been fixed, and my wife is happy with her 10 or so watchable channels, and I'm happy with my locals in HD. I guess the signal was ok...



Tim Lones, are you paying attention?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/14254814
> 
> 
> Inundated... I am curious to the location of the waivers... not doubting, would like to see their wording.



I said "I think", which means I thought I remember seeing them somewhere. Maybe I saw the stations talking about asking for waivers due to the winter season.


Anyway, to me, at least, based on the information on the WKYC blog, it sounds like they expect to be up with both WKYC-DT and WVIZ-DT sometime before 2/17/09.


----------



## Inundated

In the "this may not mean anything" department, WVIZ-DT - which already has the CP for a 170KW DT 26 facility with WKYC - just filed a new CP application that drops that to 150KW.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=18753 


The attached engineering statement doesn't seem to show it does much to affect coverage.

I'm not sure why they had to do that.


----------



## clevemkt

Yes, I understand. I was curious as to if you had a document because, in my business, I was interested in what made the FCC allow a waiver. Just curious.

At this point, anything the FCC does wouldn't surprise me!


----------



## clevemkt

I find that the maps posted on the FCC site fall short of the detail that more sophisticated mapping does... the new directional antenna may push the signal away from a sparse population area into a denser area, or the power savings for the lower ERP may be significant enough over the long run to merit. Monthly electric bills for 170 kW site could be about $7500/mo. and growing. Who knows..


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/14262717
> 
> 
> I find that the maps posted on the FCC site fall short of the detail that more sophisticated mapping does... the new directional antenna may push the signal away from a sparse population area into a denser area, or the power savings for the lower ERP may be significant enough over the long run to merit. Monthly electric bills for 170 kW site could be about $7500/mo. and growing. Who knows..



Go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/ , TV Query and input WVIZ. Look at the two applications (Application List). In the engineering exhibits, they show the Dielectric Azimuth pattern for the 170 kW antenna and for the 150 kW antenna. The 170 kW is a peanut-shaped pattern. The other is "rounder"... still protecting Canada.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14251102
> 
> 
> My wife and I decided to go back to Time Warner for our Cable as our Dish Network contract expires this month (we already have digital phone and Roadrunner)..The TWC Customer service rep quoted us about $127 a month plus tax for what we have now plus one HD DVR in our bedroom and standard (no box) for 2 other TV's..My main question is, What is TWC's HD DVR Box like?..How many hours can it record, picture quality, etc..We figure to save $70-$75 a month going this route..Thanks for any response..



I hope you reconsider. If you have a 622 or 722 no other DVR (with the possible exception of Hook's favorite) will satisfy. I just got my 622 after suffering through 10 different 921's. TiVO helped get the 921 off the streets by their lawsuit against Dish. Anyway IMNSHO the 622 rocks!


In the end you have to compare what you have now with E* to what you'll get with TWC. Keep in mind the E* equipment has an OTA tuner to get OOM stations that cover your area (in your location that can be quite interesting). The HD locals from E* are excellent (however I'm not a fan of the SD locals, but the OTA tuner makes up for that too). About the only thing I watch from the SD LIL feeds is WVIZ. I get WEAO-HD & SD OTA just fine.


If you leave for "the dark side" I'll miss you over at DBS Talk.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14261987
> 
> 
> In the "this may not mean anything" department, WVIZ-DT - which already has the CP for a 170KW DT 26 facility with WKYC - just filed a new CP application that drops that to 150KW.
> 
> http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....&fac_num=18753
> 
> 
> The attached engineering statement doesn't seem to show it does much to affect coverage.
> 
> I'm not sure why they had to do that.



Click on the link labeled "Service Contour Map (41 dBu)", and compare the coverage maps between the 170 kW and 150 kW transmitters. You'll notice that the 150 kW transmitter has a much larger coverage. I'm not sure why. Can anyone figure this out? What seems strange is that the signal travels further in every direction, despite the fact that it's lower power. So I don't see how they're focusing the power from one direction to another.


----------



## Trip in VA

They want to employ a new directional pattern which is much less directional (as already said, protecting Canada while expanding coverage in the US is the goal). Likely, there is a specific agreement with the Canadian government which says something to the effect of "WVIZ must only put this much power in this direction" and that may have capped their power.


- Trip


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14263724
> 
> 
> They want to employ a new directional pattern which is much less directional (as already said, protecting Canada while expanding coverage in the US is the goal). Likely, there is a specific agreement with the Canadian government which says something to the effect of "WVIZ must only put this much power in this direction" and that may have capped their power.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Exactly....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/14262559
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand. I was curious as to if you had a document because, in my business, I was interested in what made the FCC allow a waiver. Just curious.
> 
> At this point, anything the FCC does wouldn't surprise me!



I would have to go back and dig through the WKYC filing, but I THINK they indicated in their Transition Report (filed this Feb.) that they may later ask for a waiver if construction issues/winter/whatever get in the way...and the waiver would basically mean that WKYC-DT would still be on DT 2 until the new facility is up on DT 17.


I think I recall them saying that might be needed until mid-2009. It may just be a backstop because of the weather/winter issues through the transition date.


That's only a vague memory, and it's late, and I'm tired...so feel free to traipse through the WKYC filings to find that.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14263724
> 
> 
> They want to employ a new directional pattern which is much less directional (as already said, protecting Canada while expanding coverage in the US is the goal).



Shoulda figured it was a Canadian issue.







Heck, look at what WBNX-DT 30 had to go through even to get on the air!


I saw the patterns clevemkt talked about, and I guess I was paying more attention to the U.S. side of the proposed WVIZ-DT service area. It looked like it pushed a little further east (towards Warren) as the biggest change, which should have indicated (to me) a Canadian problem on the other end.


----------



## Inundated

OK, I get it now...

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=618132 


It looks like WKYC is planning to file for an STA in August to stay on DT 2 post-transition, if it needs to do so due to Canadian coordination issues with DT 17. The weather's mentioned because they estimate it'd take about 8 months to order and install the new antenna once the Canadian coordination issues are clear, and that could push the date past 2/17.


But their DT 2 facility would be on at the transition (until the new antenna is up), which would NOT be good news considering how hard that signal is to pick up.


I think I have it, now! Thanks to Trip and his RabbitEars for the easy link.


----------



## snagy

Hope this is the right forum to ask this question. I live along the Route 422 corridor in Geauga County, and receive all the Digital Channel very strong with the exception of Fox 8.


Antenna is about 1 year old, descent size.


Channel 3 usually about 95%

Channel 5 usually about 92%

Channel 8 usually about 60%

Channel 19 usually about 98%

Channel 43 usually about 85%


All transmitters are about 275 degrees to 279 degrees toward the west from our house. Some trees, since its only one channel that is "weak" I was wondering if its Fox 8 themselves or others in the area get the same "readings"


Thanks

Steve


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14265146
> 
> 
> OK, I get it now...
> 
> http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/f...ibit_id=618132
> 
> 
> It looks like WKYC is planning to file for an STA in August to stay on DT 2 post-transition, if it needs to do so due to Canadian coordination issues with DT 17. The weather's mentioned because they estimate it'd take about 8 months to order and install the new antenna once the Canadian coordination issues are clear, and that could push the date past 2/17.
> 
> 
> But their DT 2 facility would be on at the transition (until the new antenna is up), which would NOT be good news considering how hard that signal is to pick up.
> 
> 
> I think I have it, now! Thanks to Trip and his RabbitEars for the easy link.



Doh! I should have thought about the 387 filings. FYI, the FCC has requested that a new one be filed next Friday.


----------



## Inundated

WDLI is asking to move from DT 39 to DT 49! (Thanks to Trip's RabbitEars for the heads up...)


(Of course, WEAO's analog will sign off there at the transition, as they're staying on 50.)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snagy* /forum/post/14266663
> 
> 
> Hope this is the right forum to ask this question. I live along the Route 422 corridor in Geauga County, and receive all the Digital Channel very strong with the exception of Fox 8.
> 
> 
> Antenna is about 1 year old, descent size.
> 
> 
> Channel 3 usually about 95%
> 
> Channel 5 usually about 92%
> 
> Channel 8 usually about 60%
> 
> Channel 19 usually about 98%
> 
> Channel 43 usually about 85%
> 
> 
> All transmitters are about 275 degrees to 279 degrees toward the west from our house. Some trees, since its only one channel that is "weak" I was wondering if its Fox 8 themselves or others in the area get the same "readings"
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Steve



Judging by your readings it appears that your antenna is better at VHF (3 & 19) than UHF and/or you are aim favors the northern most towers (3, 19, 55 & 61 which are all along Ridgewood Dr. between Broadview & State). BTW: you did not give a reading for 55, which is on top of WJW's current DT frequency (30/31).


Try tweaking your antenna a little bit south of where you are. WJW is farther south than the rest from your POV. Also, if you are using a compass you have to take magnetic declination into account (subtracting or adding {I can't recall if it's + or -} almost 7 degrees from a listed reading to compensate for the difference between true north and magnetic north form NE Ohio).


To give you another way of looking at it, WJW is at the corner of Pleasant Valley & State Roads. Pleasant Valley, Alexander & Pettibone Roads are essentially the same road (and nearly straight most of the way). If you are south of Pettibone all the towers will be a little bit north of due west, OTOH if you are north of Pettibone WEWS would be just about due west with WJW a tiny bit south of that. The rule of thumb is to tweak on your weakest signal and hope that the stronger ones still come in fine.


If this does not help than there may be an obstruction. WJW has a strong signal especially out east. I have family just across the border in PA that watch the analog WJW like a local station (their own DMA stations come in lousy due to terrain obstructions). While WJW-DT had some sporadic problems lately I believe they are back up to full power. (I saw several CEI trucks & the head engineer's car out at the transmitter a couple of weeks ago which coincided with problems I had with their signal - I live only .8 of a mile from WJW so if I had a problem with their signal everybody else did too)


As always YMMV. Best of luck!


----------



## hookbill

If I remember correctly channel 8.1 is broadcasting on vhf right now correct?


The reason I ask is my wife insist on putting WJW on in the bird room and everytime I go in there it's breaking up. Of course I just have regular rabbit ears.


Do you guys think that if I invest in one of those different indoor antennas that will help?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14275183
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly channel 8.1 is broadcasting on vhs right now correct?



VHS tape?










No, WJW-DT isn't on VHF yet. They're on UHF 31 until the transition next year, when they camp out digitally on their current channel 8.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14275204
> 
> 
> VHS tape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, WJW-DT isn't on VHF yet. They're on UHF 31 until the transition next year, when they camp out digitally on their current channel 8.



Have you ever heard somebody on the phone giving you a combination of numbers and letters? F and S can sound very similar.


OK, that's a terrible argument but it's the best I can do.


----------



## Michael P 2341

The only digital VHF signals in Cleveland are WKYC on ch 2 and WOIO on ch 10. Only one of the above have the good sense to move to a UHF channel.


When WJW goes digital on VHF 8 it should be an easy signal to pick up, as there are no interfering stations on that channel in nearby markets unlike VHF 10.


----------



## hookbill

I've noticed that my HD, which I receive by cable is a little behind my SD OTA.


I'm pretty sure it's because it comes through the cable that there is a delay, but I am curious. Does anyone have a OTA converter and a HDTV OTA? Do you have any delay?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14275204
> 
> 
> VHS tape?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, WJW-DT isn't on VHF yet. They're on UHF 31 until the transition next year, when they camp out digitally on their current channel 8.



It's like WJW is committing TV suicide. Why the hell would they _want_ to be VHF? WKYC and WOIO were unlucky and were stuck there. WKYC was lucky enough to get to move.


It really wouldn't affect me since I don't watch FOX that much anyway.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14275819
> 
> 
> I've noticed that my HD, which I receive by cable is a little behind my SD OTA.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's because it comes through the cable that there is a delay, but I am curious. Does anyone have a OTA converter and a HDTV OTA? Do you have any delay?



Digital cable signals will always be a little bit delayed from the same signal OTA. The digital path is significantly longer, not to mention the fact that the signal has to be transmogrified from 8VSB to QAM.


On a similar thought, I've seen a row of identical HD sets that show slight differences in video processing delay from set to set while showing the same program. That was a surprise. The difference was almost 1/2 second. Are the CPU clock speeds that much different from set to set?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14275838
> 
> 
> It's like WJW is committing TV suicide. Why the hell would they _want_ to be VHF? WKYC and WOIO were unlucky and were stuck there. WKYC was lucky enough to get to move.



High-VHF (7-13) isn't that bad. WOIO has other problems besides being on high-VHF, like the Canadian analog 10. I'm willing to bet that WJW's DT 8 won't be as much a problem as WOIO's DT 10.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14276261
> 
> 
> On a similar thought, I've seen a row of identical HD sets that show slight differences in video processing delay from set to set while showing the same program. That was a surprise. The difference was almost 1/2 second. Are the CPU clock speeds that much different from set to set?



Now when you say "identical" are you referring to exact same model, size of set etc?


For example Bravia has been calling itself "the official HD television of MLB with a "blazing response time of 8ms", however my 37LG30 out blazes that by 3ms (5ms). So that could be what you are seeing.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14277338
> 
> 
> Now when you say "identical" are you referring to exact same model, size of set etc?
> 
> 
> For example Bravia has been calling itself "the official HD television of MLB with a "blazing response time of 8ms", however my 37LG30 out blazes that by 3ms (5ms). So that could be what you are seeing.



Yes, identical models, sizes, even the same firmware revision. These were Toshiba Regza HL37 or HL42 sets if I recall. While the differences in video delay between units was only in the half-second range, that's still 15 frames, and that's significant for sets that should be identical.


----------



## mnowlin

Noticed a little glitch Thursday night, and it's still there... WNEO-DT is supposed to be on channel 410, but I'm getting some PPV preview channel instead on my Tivo. Unfortunately, I can't tune this channel on my 8500, since the Tivo is the only HD box I have. Any ideas? TWC was useless when I called them tonight... I explained the problem to them, and his response was "410 is WNEO PBS".


I think a guy around the corner from me has an HD set and TWC - maybe I'll ask him if he can get 410...


----------



## Inundated

I reran Guided Setup on my TiVo S2 tonight...because it kept bugging me that the "Time Warner City of Cleveland" lineup was not 100% correct for where I am.


It isn't THAT far off, but some of the channels in the 20's were different. I hadn't really noticed it because I don't record much there










So, I did it again - this time, via Settings > Channel List, and hit ENTER to start the process. I didn't have to go through all the network setup stuff, thank goodness!


I had to go up from "Time Warner City of Cleveland" in the list of available systems to reveal - just plain ol' "Time Warner Cable".


After I verified the placement of three or four channels (2/WVIZ, 14/QVC, etc.), it went to town.


But I noticed that TWC has actually moved the "NEON" local channel on the old Adelphia systems to 23 (same as the Akron/Canton systems) from 15. 15 isn't even available on the cable box anymore!


----------



## nickdawg

Time Warner Cable Akron:


I checked number 410 and I have WNEO-HD PBS


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14275838
> 
> 
> It's like WJW is committing TV suicide. Why the hell would they _want_ to be VHF?



Their engineer told me their electric bill would be significantly less broadcasting on channel 8 instead of 31. Evidently it requires more power to cover the same area as the broadcast signal frequency increases.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14278030
> 
> 
> I reran Guided Setup on my TiVo S2 tonight...because it kept bugging me that the "Time Warner City of Cleveland" lineup was not 100% correct for where I am.
> 
> 
> It isn't THAT far off, but some of the channels in the 20's were different. I hadn't really noticed it because I don't record much there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I did it again - this time, via Settings > Channel List, and hit ENTER to start the process. I didn't have to go through all the network setup stuff, thank goodness!
> 
> 
> I had to go up from "Time Warner City of Cleveland" in the list of available systems to reveal - just plain ol' "Time Warner Cable".
> 
> 
> After I verified the placement of three or four channels (2/WVIZ, 14/QVC, etc.), it went to town.
> 
> 
> 
> But I noticed that TWC has actually moved the "NEON" local channel on the old Adelphia systems to 23 (same as the Akron/Canton systems) from 15. 15 isn't even available on the cable box anymore!



I looked at the guide in my area and it has WNEO on the TW guide on channel 9 but zap2it.com has WEAO. So I googled and came up with this .


Edit: You did select Time Warner Cable Digital rebuild, correct?


----------



## snagy

I don't get Channel 55 WBNX at all except as a analog channel. All analog's come in fine. We are north Pettibone Road in terms of direction. As of today, Fox 8 is coming in well below 28 signal strength. We for the most part can't even watch it anymore due to the signal drop offs. Rotating the antenna even to the Youngstown channels has them come in all very strong, as strong as the Cleveland Channels. It appears only to be Fox8 themselves for whatever reason. Since I am pretty much the only one having the problem, it can't be their signal strength.


Thanks for helping everyone.


Steve



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14274769
> 
> 
> Judging by your readings it appears that your antenna is better at VHF (3 & 19) than UHF and/or you are aim favors the northern most towers (3, 19, 55 & 61 which are all along Ridgewood Dr. between Broadview & State). BTW: you did not give a reading for 55, which is on top of WJW's current DT frequency (30/31).
> 
> 
> Try tweaking your antenna a little bit south of where you are. WJW is farther south than the rest from your POV. Also, if you are using a compass you have to take magnetic declination into account (subtracting or adding {I can't recall if it's + or -} almost 7 degrees from a listed reading to compensate for the difference between true north and magnetic north form NE Ohio).
> 
> 
> To give you another way of looking at it, WJW is at the corner of Pleasant Valley & State Roads. Pleasant Valley, Alexander & Pettibone Roads are essentially the same road (and nearly straight most of the way). If you are south of Pettibone all the towers will be a little bit north of due west, OTOH if you are north of Pettibone WEWS would be just about due west with WJW a tiny bit south of that. The rule of thumb is to tweak on your weakest signal and hope that the stronger ones still come in fine.
> 
> 
> If this does not help than there may be an obstruction. WJW has a strong signal especially out east. I have family just across the border in PA that watch the analog WJW like a local station (their own DMA stations come in lousy due to terrain obstructions). While WJW-DT had some sporadic problems lately I believe they are back up to full power. (I saw several CEI trucks & the head engineer's car out at the transmitter a couple of weeks ago which coincided with problems I had with their signal - I live only .8 of a mile from WJW so if I had a problem with their signal everybody else did too)
> 
> 
> As always YMMV. Best of luck!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14277923
> 
> 
> Noticed a little glitch Thursday night, and it's still there... WNEO-DT is supposed to be on channel 410, but I'm getting some PPV preview channel instead on my Tivo. Unfortunately, I can't tune this channel on my 8500, since the Tivo is the only HD box I have. Any ideas? TWC was useless when I called them tonight... I explained the problem to them, and his response was "410 is WNEO PBS".
> 
> 
> I think a guy around the corner from me has an HD set and TWC - maybe I'll ask him if he can get 410...



I looked at all 4 zip codes in your area at zap2it.com. I noticed when I selected 44221 it gave me several different digital line ups. Time Warner Cable Digital Rebuild had WNEO on channel 410 like Inundated said. Time Warner Cable Cleveland Heights does not. TW CDR Akron does, as Does Franklin County. The only other selection was in 44224 where they have TWC Kent Rebuild and that also had WNEO on 410.


So unless you've selected TWC DRB Cleveland Heights that's where it should be.


And if none of the solutions I gave you helped email Tivo. Go to here and fill out the form. They will actually call you if there is something that you can change in your line up so you can get the correct channel.


Also take a look at Tivo Central/Messages&Settings/Settings/Channels. See if it list WNEO at 410.


----------



## hookbill

OK, off topic but the fellow who said he already had their digital phone service is really getting ripped off.

*Digital Phone

Digital Phone (with cable service)............................. $44.95

Digital Phone (with cable + High-Speed)..................... $39.95

Digital Phone delivers unlimited calling, local,

in-state and long distance for one low price.

Digital Phone Unlimited In-State

(with cable service)................................................ $34.95

Long distance .05 cents per minute

Digital Phone Unlimited Local

(with cable service)................................................ $24.95

Long distance .07 cents per minute*


They charge for long distance? And they charge 3.95 for voice mail. What a rip off.


Vonage has all this for 24.95 including voice mail, call forwarding and unlimited calls, local and long distance. As I said I took the 500 minute plan for 15.95 and still get free long distance. And I've got E911, call waiting. And I only get charged minutes when I dial a regular number. 800 type calls are free and receiving calls are free.


But this is a cable company. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Vonage requires that you pay for a broadband connection separately though, so you have to add the cost of cable or DSL broadband on top of Vonage's costs to get a better picture of the price comparison. Vonage isn't an ISP.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14279978
> 
> 
> Vonage requires that you pay for a broadband connection separately though, so you have to add the cost of cable or DSL broadband on top of Vonage's costs to get a better picture of the price comparison. Vonage isn't an ISP.




Excellent point. So maybe I'm getting ripped off. Let's see, I pay $48.85 for Road Runner Turbo and 14.99 for Vonage. Total cost excluding fees from both companies is 63.64.


But I'm a bit confused by what I see in the billing for TW.

*Digital Phone

Digital Phone (with cable service)............................. $44.95*


Now is that the phone and cable service? Or the phone IF you have cable. If that means you pay for your digital value service as well then the true cost is 90.00. However if that includes the cable service, bargain for sure.


Then the next one is this: *Digital Phone (with cable + High-Speed)..................... $39.95

Digital Phone delivers unlimited calling, local,

in-state and long distance for one low price*


Now this is a bit hard to believe. If they are saying they are offering High Speed Turbo RR and unlimited phone, how in the heck would it be 5.00 less? To me it would seem that they are saying 39.95 if you have RR Turbo as well. True cost on that would be 88.80.


So if the internet is included in these prices it's a bargain. But I'll bet it isn't. It doesn't make sense that they would offer a high speed Internet service with unlimited phone for only 39.95.


But I will check further.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14278762
> 
> 
> I looked at all 4 zip codes in your area at zap2it.com. I noticed when I selected 44221 it gave me several different digital line ups. Time Warner Cable Digital Rebuild had WNEO on channel 410 like Inundated said. Time Warner Cable Cleveland Heights does not. TW CDR Akron does, as Does Franklin County. The only other selection was in 44224 where they have TWC Kent Rebuild and that also had WNEO on 410.



I'm confused...I didn't even talk about WNEO.







My lineup change/Guided Setup on the TiVo S2 (not HD/S3) last night had nothing to do with that...and I don't get WNEO/WEAO HD on 410 on the SA8000.


Of those lineups, "Time Warner Cable Cleveland Heights" is the former Adelphia. Always has been.


When I went through the TiVo lineup change last night, it just said "Time Warner Cable", but I was using the 44321 ZIP code (where I used to live). 44321 never had, as far as I know, the Akron/Canton based system...which is why I chose it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14280804
> 
> 
> I'm confused...I didn't even talk about WNEO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My lineup change/Guided Setup on the TiVo S2 (not HD/S3) last night had nothing to do with that...and I don't get WNEO/WEAO HD on 410 on the SA8000.
> 
> 
> Of those lineups, "Time Warner Cable Cleveland Heights" is the former Adelphia. Always has been.
> 
> 
> When I went through the TiVo lineup change last night, it just said "Time Warner Cable", but I was using the 44321 ZIP code (where I used to live). 44321 never had, as far as I know, the Akron/Canton based system...which is why I chose it.



I thought you were responding to mnowlin's comment regarding WNEO. When you said "NEON" I thought that was some local terminology for WNEO.


So I was really responding to both him and you. But apparently you were not responding to him. So that's why you're confused.


Once again I have totally succeeded in trying to be helpful and causing nothing but confusion.










And I went through a lot of trouble doing it to.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14280917
> 
> 
> I thought you were responding to mnowlin's comment regarding WNEO. When you said "NEON" I thought that was some local terminology for WNEO.



Oh, I get it.


No, "NEON" is the name TWC has given their local programming channel - what used to be channel 15 on the old Adelphia system, and 23 on the Akron/Canton/Youngstown systems.


They just moved NEON from 15 to 23 here a while back.


"NEON" stands for "Northeast Ohio Network".


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14280180
> 
> *Digital Phone
> 
> Digital Phone (with cable service)............................. $44.95*
> 
> 
> Now is that the phone and cable service? Or the phone IF you have cable. If that means you pay for your digital value service as well then the true cost is 90.00. However if that includes the cable service, bargain for sure.



That's the amount for adding phone service to your existing cable bill.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14280180
> 
> 
> Then the next one is this: *Digital Phone (with cable + High-Speed)..................... $39.95
> 
> Digital Phone delivers unlimited calling, local,
> 
> in-state and long distance for one low price*
> 
> 
> Now this is a bit hard to believe. If they are saying they are offering High Speed Turbo RR and unlimited phone, how in the heck would it be 5.00 less? To me it would seem that they are saying 39.95 if you have RR Turbo as well. True cost on that would be 88.80.



That's the extra charge for phone if you are already paying for cable and RR. Ooohh - they give you a $5 discount if you pay them a lot.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14280917
> 
> 
> Once again I have totally succeeded in trying to be helpful and causing nothing but confusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I went through a lot of trouble doing it to.



Hey - I appreciate it...










I checked my Tivo, and it is set for the correct lineup (TWC Akron post-reorg, or whatever it says). 410 is identified as WNEO in the Channel screen and on the IPG. Ran through guided setup again just to be sure, and the problem still exists.


As far as I can tell, one of two things has happened:


1. The Tivo mapping of channel number to frequency and sub-channel ID has gotten screwed up for just this one channel. I haven't found any other channels acting up, and the Tivo is behaving normally.


2. There's a localized distribution problem with TWC. Dunno... A service tech who seemed to know what he was talking about told me the digital and analog parts travel over (respectively) fiber and coax to local distribution points. The analog signal is amplified, the digital signal is demultiplexed and then re-multiplexed as RF, the signals are combined, then finally exit for distribution to local subscribers.


If I was to guess, I'd say #2 is the culprit. Something probably went whacky, and the wrong channel was placed on the coax where WNEO should be. From peering in windows while walking my dog, we have very few HDTV owners in this area, and (face it) the fact that it's WNEO eliminates a lot of people who would notice/report a problem anyway. Not to mention that it can't *possibly* be a Tivo issue - that would be unheard of!










Side note: From what the tech said, these TWC distribution boxes are also where the magic of SDV occurs. During the demux/remux stage, when someone requests an SDV channel, the box locates an available frequency, places the requested channel on that frequency, and tells your STB where to find the channel. This is also why the channel reorg is being done per area - hardware and software needed to be updated in these boxes to handle SDV, and they're applying the lineup changes at the same time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14283258
> 
> 
> That's the amount for adding phone service to your existing cable bill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the extra charge for phone if you are already paying for cable and RR. Ooohh - they give you a $5 discount if you pay them a lot.



I tired to call customer service but was put on eternal hold. Then I tried email but I guess their policy is that this is a possible sale. We need to talk to them live. So they emailed me back telling me to call them.










But thanks, you proved my point. It's more expensive to go with TWC then it is with Vonaga and TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14283424
> 
> 
> Hey - I appreciate it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I checked my Tivo, and it is set for the correct lineup (TWC Akron post-reorg, or whatever it says). 410 is identified as WNEO in the Channel screen and on the IPG. Ran through guided setup again just to be sure, and the problem still exists.
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell, one of two things has happened:
> 
> 
> 1. The Tivo mapping of channel number to frequency and sub-channel ID has gotten screwed up for just this one channel. I haven't found any other channels acting up, and the Tivo is behaving normally.
> 
> 
> 2. There's a localized distribution problem with TWC. Dunno... A service tech who seemed to know what he was talking about told me the digital and analog parts travel over (respectively) fiber and coax to local distribution points. The analog signal is amplified, the digital signal is demultiplexed and then re-multiplexed as RF, the signals are combined, then finally exit for distribution to local subscribers.
> 
> 
> If I was to guess, I'd say #2 is the culprit. Something probably went whacky, and the wrong channel was placed on the coax where WNEO should be. From peering in windows while walking my dog, we have very few HDTV owners in this area, and (face it) the fact that it's WNEO eliminates a lot of people who would notice/report a problem anyway. Not to mention that it can't *possibly* be a Tivo issue - that would be unheard of!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Side note: From what the tech said, these TWC distribution boxes are also where the magic of SDV occurs. During the demux/remux stage, when someone requests an SDV channel, the box locates an available frequency, places the requested channel on that frequency, and tells your STB where to find the channel. This is also why the channel reorg is being done per area - hardware and software needed to be updated in these boxes to handle SDV, and they're applying the lineup changes at the same time.



I've got a feeling the problem is that head end needs to redirect the signal for the cable card somehow, which supports answer #1. I would imagine your pids match as they are suppose to or else you wouldn't get anything. The tech should have known this and called headend.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14283902
> 
> 
> I tired to call customer service but was put on eternal hold. Then I tried email but I guess their policy is that this is a possible sale. We need to talk to them live. So they emailed me back telling me to call them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But thanks, you proved my point. It's more expensive to go with TWC then it is with Vonaga and TWC.



TWC pricing for VOIP sure does seem high. If I'm understanding this:

- If you already have TWC cable tv service it's $45 mo. more to add VOIP

- If you already have TWC cable tv + internet service it's $39 mo. more to add VOIP


The industry standard seems to be in the $25 mo. range (or less). With WOW it's $25 mo. for line 1 and $12 mo. for line 2 (plus all the wonderful taxes). But then maybe WOW charges more for internet & cable service so it's a wash with the total bundled price?







I suppose one must compare the bottom line monthly total comparing equal services & programming.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14275819
> 
> 
> I've noticed that my HD, which I receive by cable is a little behind my SD OTA.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's because it comes through the cable that there is a delay, but I am curious. Does anyone have a OTA converter and a HDTV OTA? Do you have any delay?



Digital signals have "latency", analog signals do not (or at least any analog latency is measured in undetectable microseconds).


Just this weekend, and just for fun, I had WKYC-TV on in the bedroom, WKYC-DT in the family room and WKYC SD on a 3rd TV via Dish Network during Saturday's Tribe game. As expected, the analog OTA was ahead of the digital OTA and the satellite delivered feed (which travels from Cleveland to the uplink via fiber, then is shot 22,500 miles into space and back another 22,500). There is a good 3 seconds between analog and digital OTA signals and almost 10 seconds on the satellite signals (the HD satellite feed had the longest delay, while the SD satellite feed had a shorter delay).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14286784
> 
> 
> There is a good 3 seconds between analog and digital OTA signals and almost 10 seconds on the satellite signals (the HD satellite feed had the longest delay, while the SD satellite feed had a shorter delay).



Makes sense to me.


One added complication - for those of us on cable, analog WKYC/3 isn't really analog, if you have a digital box. The digital box does substitution with the cable-delivered "digital" reencoding of the analog signal.


I'm pretty sure they aren't getting it from WKYC-DT, as it is a straight 4:3 feed. Of course, it's quite possible WKYC has a fiber feed to TWC for all of its channels, so it's not necessarily the OTA signal here being sent down as "3".


They used to put the analog versions on the digital boxes in the 800's, but I don't know if they do anymore after the lineup change.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14288114
> 
> 
> Makes sense to me.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure they aren't getting it from WKYC-DT, as it is a straight 4:3 feed. Of course, it's quite possible WKYC has a fiber feed to TWC for all of its channels, so it's not necessarily the OTA signal here being sent down as "3".
> 
> 
> They used to put the analog versions on the digital boxes in the 800's, but I don't know if they do anymore after the lineup change.



Nope, it's analog *converted* to digital. Except WBNX of course which for some reason they continue to show an analog feed. And you can really see and hear the difference when you compare it with a real digital channel.


I'm pretty sure they do the same thing with STO digital, but I'm not positive.


----------



## hookbill

They just announced on the FOX 8 news tonight (recorded) that they were sold. Yes I know we all know about it but I guess it really became "official" today.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14283424
> 
> 
> 
> Side note: From what the tech said, these TWC distribution boxes are also where the magic of SDV occurs. During the demux/remux stage, when someone requests an SDV channel, the box locates an available frequency, places the requested channel on that frequency, and tells your STB where to find the channel. This is also why the channel reorg is being done per area - hardware and software needed to be updated in these boxes to handle SDV, and they're applying the lineup changes at the same time.



I guess SDV is coming soon. I've already noticed a bunch of channels in the 700s/900s that have subscription service messages on the screen. At one point it actually said "Switched Digital Video" in the IPG.


Maybe they're working on installing SDV in your area.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14289012
> 
> 
> Nope, it's analog *converted* to digital. Except WBNX of course which for some reason they continue to show an analog feed. And you can really see and hear the difference when you compare it with a real digital channel.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure they do the same thing with STO digital, but I'm not positive.



Yes, as of right now it still is upconvert analog. Coming soon with the DTV transition we should start seeing the opposite happening. HDTV digital downconverted to 4:3 digital SDTV.


I know it's upconvert because it looks like absolute garbage!! We have a "faux digital" WBNX-SD and it is attrocious!!! There's ghosting and faint diagonal lines in the background. I could immediately tell it wasn't REAL digital since there isn't supposed to be ghosting on digital(unless it's an upconverted analog source---as we saw on WOIO late last year).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14286784
> 
> 
> Digital signals have "latency", analog signals do not (or at least any analog latency is measured in undetectable microseconds).



Undetectable mostly. Analog signals show latency in a different manner, typically called _group delay_ or _envelope delay_. When this happens to a noticeable degree (measured in nanoseconds), the higher frequency components of the signal arrive a tiny bit later than the lower frequencies, producing chroma delay. This shows up as the "funny paper effect," where the chroma falls slightly outside of the outlineswhere it should be, usually shifted to the right of the luminance signal. There's a chroma-modulated pulse that's usually included in the vertical blanking interval that makes it easy to quantify the amount of chroma delay on a line-selectable waveform monitor.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14289702
> 
> 
> I guess SDV is coming soon. I've already noticed a bunch of channels in the 700s/900s that have subscription service messages on the screen. At one point it actually said "Switched Digital Video" in the IPG.
> 
> 
> Maybe they're working on installing SDV in your area.



Yeah, you just keep thinking that. It will be here alright, but not for at least another year.


Nickdawg I've been watching the progression of SDV around the country and to say it's moving at a snails pace is an understatement.


Look dude, I know you want HD channels. So do I. But you have to be realistic. This area is probably going to be one of the last areas to get it. There is just too many other areas ahead of us who are already to go that still don't have it.


Add that and the fact that despite what Cathode Kid says I still do not know of one single SARA unit that has been converted to Navagator. And the only way you will convince me of that is to show me a link that says specifically that SARA conversion is happening.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14289012
> 
> 
> Nope, it's analog *converted* to digital. Except WBNX of course which for some reason they continue to show an analog feed. And you can really see and hear the difference when you compare it with a real digital channel.



Yeah, I know, that's in this poorly worded sentence of mine:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The digital box does substitution with the cable-delivered "digital" reencoding of the analog signal.



Perhaps I should have said "upconverted" to make it simpler










Though as I mentioned, I'm sure some, if not most, of these signals are coming to TWC via fiber feeds from the TV studios. I'm pretty sure WKYC does this, so it's not technically a reconversion of the analog OTA signal off an antenna.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14289012
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure they do the same thing with STO digital, but I'm not positive.



Probably another fiber feed from WKYC, since it's coming out of the same building.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14283905
> 
> 
> I've got a feeling the problem is that head end needs to redirect the signal for the cable card somehow, which supports answer #1. I would imagine your pids match as they are suppose to or else you wouldn't get anything. The tech should have known this and called headend.



Time (lots of it) will tell. I filed a lineup correction form with Tivo last night - it might be a few days before I hear back from them.


Called TWC and got a rep who spoke English and tried to help. She checked all kinds of things, reset my cablecards a few times, checked some more things, then finally gave up and scheduled a truck roll. Unfortunately, the earliest date they could give me was July 30... I would have protested this, but don't want to raise a stink until I'm sure it's not a Tivo problem. This at least gives the Tivo guys enough time to respond - I'll just have to watch WNEO in SD for a week or two...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14289702
> 
> 
> Maybe they're working on installing SDV in your area.



Man, I sure hope not. I beta-test enough crap at work...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14290195
> 
> 
> Look dude, I know you want HD channels. So do I. But you have to be realistic. This area is probably going to be one of the last areas to get it.



This brings up an interesting point. Many moons ago, this area was among the first to get new "stuff" from TWC. Akron/Canton was one of the first to have Road Runner available, for example. I wonder what changed? Maybe this is some sort of funky apology for the horrendous train wreck that was the first incarnation of RR?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14291114
> 
> 
> Man, I sure hope not. I beta-test enough crap at work...



Interesting point about that. I actually put on one of the SDV channels. Nothing was there. But in the course of looking through the guide the box reset. When it came back up on that channel a different screen was on stating that "SDV is currently not available at this time". And "press "A" to retry".


Which leads me to think, will SDV be another Time Warner POS that never functions properly? Will the channels "not be available"? I mean look how well their Navigator worked out.

















But, if by some fluke. Some unnatural occurrance, this actually works, we will actually be luck we're in TWC Akron/Canton. They'll start the conversion with their own, original customers first(just like the lineup and Navigator). Why would they start in Cleveland? Many of the systems acquired are still analog/digital hybrids that do not even have all channels in the lineup digital yet.


SDV may be a few years away... for Cleveland systems


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14291139
> 
> 
> This brings up an interesting point. Many moons ago, this area was among the first to get new "stuff" from TWC. Akron/Canton was one of the first to have Road Runner available, for example. I wonder what changed? Maybe this is some sort of funky apology for the horrendous train wreck that was the first incarnation of RR?



What changed was the acquisition of Adelphia and Comcast. Otherwise you might be on track.


Look how long it took to do the realignment. And you still got Comcast people out there with Motorola boxes.


To give credit to Time Warner, as reluctant as I am to talk positive of any cable company they do seem to at least be trying to put it together. As one Supervisor told me Adelphia, when they first bought all the small companies, really let their service departments act independently. Therefore you have a bunch of individual companies running under the same brand. You get good service out of Macedonia, bad service out of Concord.


Now that has changed and they are righting the ship. Still it's difficult to change one's mindset when you've been doing things a certain way for so many years.


mnowlin, you not being able to receive 410 WNEO correctly is unacceptable. It is costing you time to have the techs come out and they are not fixing your problem.


Time to [email protected] .


----------



## Tim Lones

Well, I took the plunge..Things went fairly well with the TWC install this morning..They did charge 19.95 for installing a third tv which I wasnt looking for them to do, but no biggie..I do have a question..Is there any indication of what they might put on analog channel 47 at some point?..All I see is color bars..Nothing indicated in the program guide or channel list..


----------



## Smarty-pants

I thought first time installation was supposed to be free, no matter how many outlets you have. I would call and complain for a credit.


----------



## Tim Lones

I already have RR and Digital Phone, and have had TW Cable before..I may ask about that though


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14293603
> 
> 
> Well, I took the plunge..Things went fairly well with the TWC install this morning..They did charge 19.95 for installing a third tv which I wasnt looking for them to do, but no biggie..I do have a question..Is there any indication of what they might put on analog channel 47 at some point?..All I see is color bars..Nothing indicated in the program guide or channel list..



I'm so stunned you did this I don't know quite what to say. You are getting ripped off on your digital phone, you had better HD selection on satellite, it appears they are already getting you on the "oh we forgot to charge for this" merry go round. But you did it anyway.


Take a look here for your cable line up. Scroll down select the information for the lineup in your area. I don't believe there is anything on channel 45.


And as things get really bad, like when you start seeing charges on your bill that you have no idea what they are it's [email protected] . Put that on your email book because as you will learn TWC has the worst customer service. Well, actually they may be better then Adelphia who was the worst but as I said before all cable companies suck.


----------



## Tim Lones

hook:

I appreciate yours and everyone else's opinion..I have been with TWC, in various forms and packages, for a number of years. I dont need every HD channel in the known universe to be happy..The only major glitch I've ever had with TWC was a few years ago when Digital was new and everything was out for over a week. I know I'm losing some but i'm gaining channels I didnt have with Dish.


Familyland

American Life

Other locals (17, 23, 67..Steubenville's 9 in Qam)- know some may wonder about the real value of them)

WIVM-52

Ohio News Network

Ohio Channel

Lots of Video on demand..

I'm hearing they may add RFD-TV in the future..


Never had a major problem with customer service..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14294215
> 
> 
> hook:
> 
> I appreciate yours and everyone ele's opinion..I have been on TWC, in various forms and packages, for a number of years. *I dont need every HD channel in the known universe to be happy.*.The only major glitch I've ever had with TWC was a few years ago when Digital was new and everything was out for over a week. I know I'm losing some but i'm gaining channels I didnt have with Dish.
> 
> 
> Familyland
> 
> American Life
> 
> Other locals (17, 23, 67..Steubenville's 9 in Qam)- know some may wonder about the real valueof them)
> 
> WIVM-52
> 
> Ohio News Network
> 
> Ohio Channel
> 
> Lots of Video on demand..
> 
> I'm hearing they may add RFD-TV in the future..
> 
> 
> Never had a major problem with customer service..



I totally agree with you on that point bolded.


If VOD is a big thing to you then that's a valid point. To me I never use it I like to plan out ahead of time which is why I use the DVR.


Still, I think you could do better by dropping their phone service. Vonage is a better deal. But it's your money, if you want an all in one package I understand.


And please advise me as to your thoughts of their DVR compared to Dish's. I based my comment about Dish's DVR being superior since they stole the technology from TiVo and got sued for it.


----------



## Inundated

Here's a link to the PDF file of Tim's Canton lineup:

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU022508.pdf 


47 is indeed missing. TWC has moved around some of the analog channels, moving them up to digital, or others back down, and left holes behind. For example, the main C-SPAN channel is still on analog, but C-SPAN 2 got kicked up into digital basic (next to the C-SPAN simulcast and C-SPAN 3). Ohio News Network on the former Adelphia got kicked off 70 and up into digital basic...etc.


All of the ones moved up to digital were not filled by other channels...so there are holes here and there.


----------



## nickdawg

^^^^That's a good thing. Time Warner is slowly moving more and more channels off analog. They moved a few up there during the transition. Unfortunately two or three have moved down to analog too.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14291992
> 
> 
> mnowlin, you not being able to receive 410 WNEO correctly is unacceptable. It is costing you time to have the techs come out and they are not fixing your problem.
> 
> 
> Time to [email protected] .



I hate to play the Fry Card for fear that it might get abused, but in this case, I decided it was justified. Just sent him a pleasant, yet rather lengthy, message explaining the problem. I said that I wasn't overly concerned (although annoyed) with not being able to receive WNEO-DT, but if this is indeed a headend issue, the CSR's should be able to identify this and not waste two weeks by sending a tech to my house, just to find that nothing's wrong with my equipment and the problem is a headend issue that affects all customers in this area.


I'll let you know how he (or his secretary) responds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14299592
> 
> 
> ^^^^That's a good thing. Time Warner is slowly moving more and more channels off analog. They moved a few up there during the transition. Unfortunately two or three have moved down to analog too.



Yeah, like hallmark. They should have left that on digital, I don't get it.


I'm fully on board with you on this point nickdawg. Damn the peasants, get digital or get a converter and get out of our way.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14299957
> 
> 
> I hate to play the Fry Card for fear that it might get abused, but in this case, I decided it was justified. Just sent him a pleasant, yet rather lengthy, message explaining the problem. I said that I wasn't overly concerned (although annoyed) with not being able to receive WNEO-DT, but if this is indeed a headend issue, the CSR's should be able to identify this and not waste two weeks by sending a tech to my house, just to find that nothing's wrong with my equipment and the problem is a headend issue that affects all customers in this area.
> 
> 
> I'll let you know how he (or his secretary) responds.



Probably the response will come from either headend (doubtfull) or someone who is the manager of their service department.


But let me know what happens, please. I'm sure the Fry card will work but I have another card that I don't play unless it's absolutely necessary and that I will share only by pm.


It's just something in the signal needs to be adjusted and probably isn't affecting everyone in the area, but others with cable cards may be.


----------



## hookbill

I've had a couple of people who have said they don't want to "abuse" this. This is not abuse, this is how things get done.


A couple of months ago Readers Digest published a list of solutions on what to do when you have problems getting good service. This is exactly one of the things they suggest.


Now should you do it every time you have a problem? No, but if you've had bad experience already with the service from your techs and something new has come up I'd say it's ok. Then a Supervisor will be notified and when send you out good people because he doesn't want his boss breathing down his back.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Why is everybody calling the PBS station from Kent WNEO? If you are in the Cleveland DMA you should be getting WEAO (unless you are in Alliance). Asking TWC for WNEO-DT might give TWC a convenient excuse to not give it to you. It's the equivalent to asking for WKBN or WFMJ when you should be getting WOIO and WKYC.


I know it's the exact same station, but 'NEO is technically out of the market while 'EAO is in the market.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14303760
> 
> 
> Why is everybody calling the PBS station from Kent WNEO? If you are in the Cleveland DMA you should be getting WEAO (unless you are in Alliance). Asking TWC for WNEO-DT might give TWC a convenient excuse to not give it to you. It's the equivalent to asking for WKBN or WFMJ when you should be getting WOIO and WKYC.
> 
> 
> I know it's the exact same station, but 'NEO is technically out of the market while 'EAO is in the market.



Funny because TW list it as WNEO and ZAP2IT.com says WEAO. Same channel.


Once again, TW is wrong. Sort of.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14303760
> 
> 
> Why is everybody calling the PBS station from Kent WNEO? If you are in the Cleveland DMA you should be getting WEAO (unless you are in Alliance). Asking TWC for WNEO-DT might give TWC a convenient excuse to not give it to you. It's the equivalent to asking for WKBN or WFMJ when you should be getting WOIO and WKYC.
> 
> 
> I know it's the exact same station, but 'NEO is technically out of the market while 'EAO is in the market.



Because they are basically one in the same. On (whatever 410 is here) the bug in the bottom right corner says "HD|WNEO-DT/WEAO-DT". The SD channel also says "45/49". They ID the same on air and this fall they are set to rebrand as "Western Reserve PBS". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNEO Also, Time Warner identifies both SD and HD on-air as "WNEO".


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14300307
> 
> 
> Yeah, like hallmark. They should have left that on digital, I don't get it.
> 
> 
> I'm fully on board with you on this point nickdawg. Damn the peasants, get digital or get a converter and get out of our way.



Here they put MTV2, VH1 Classic, Discovery Science and Jewlery TV on analog. Discovery health, Fit TV, CSPAN 2 and ESPN Classic moved to digital only. They took a smart pill moving those channels to digital and then took a stupid pill by mving channels back to analog.


----------



## ErieMarty

Wonder if TW will add any of the other HD NBC Channels that will be having Olympic Coverage.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14300311
> 
> 
> Probably the response will come from either headend (doubtfull) or someone who is the manager of their service department.
> 
> 
> But let me know what happens, please. I'm sure the Fry card will work but I have another card that I don't play unless it's absolutely necessary and that I will share only by pm.
> 
> 
> It's just something in the signal needs to be adjusted and probably isn't affecting everyone in the area, but others with cable cards may be.



I had a message on my answering machine this afternoon from someone at TWC who wanted to discuss my CableCard problems and come up with a more timely resolution. I'll call her back tomorrow and see what she has to say.


If you're curious, I posted the message I sent at http://www.argos.org/frymsg1.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14308302
> 
> 
> I had a message on my answering machine this afternoon from someone at TWC who wanted to discuss my CableCard problems and come up with a more timely resolution. I'll call her back tomorrow and see what she has to say.
> 
> 
> If you're curious, I posted the message I sent at http://www.argos.org/frymsg1.html



Nice letter, that's how mine usually go. And I'm not surprised you got a next (or same) day response.


In Readers Digest it states, and I'm paraphrasing "Corporate big wigs surrounds themselves with a firewall of people who's sole purpose is to make sure that these type of issues are dealt with."


So Steve Fry probably doesn't even read the message, but somebody close to him, with power did and that's why you get the almost "instant" response.


I also got a message that a channel had been added, CRNTOH channel 186. Either I don't really get it because it's on the higher level digital or I'm not really getting a signal.


I have no idea what this channel is but I probably don't care.


Edit: I just took a look, it's not listed in the guide (I don't think) under the correct name but it is in the "shopping tier". Thank the TiVo Gods I don't receive it!


----------



## jtscherne

You're most likely correct Hook. Directv has a channel called CRTV and it's just another all infomercial channel.


----------



## Tim Lones

Question:

I have the Explorer HD8240 with Navigator software. Is Caller ID now activated at all? The online instructions on the navigator software suggest how to turn it on, but I find it nowhere on my screens..


----------



## Smarty-pants

Just in case anyone cares, looks like Warner has done another channel realignment for the QAM down here in Canton. WBNX-HD is now on QAM channel 78-4. There were a couple different channels added too, including WVIZ-HD (which we've already had WEAO/WNEO-HD for quite a while, and they are simulcast so...).

What I'd really like is WVIZ-DT, because my kids like to watch the SD channel in the mornings, and the SD always looks like crapola.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14309780
> 
> 
> Just in case anyone cares, looks like Warner has done another channel realignment for the QAM down here in Canton. WBNX-HD is now on QAM channel 78-4. There were a couple different channels added too, including WVIZ-HD (which we've already had WEAO/WNEO-HD for quite a while, and they are simulcast so...).
> 
> What I'd really like is WVIZ-DT, because my kids like to watch the SD channel in the mornings, and the SD always looks like crapola.



I live in North Canton and still can't find WBNX-HD on TWC QAM but did notice the addition a few days ago of channels like HBO Comedy, DIY, Fit TV, and The Outdoor Channel. I wish they would just put FOX News back on though.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14309780
> 
> 
> ...............What I'd really like is WVIZ-DT, because my kids like to watch the SD channel in the mornings, and the SD always looks like crapola.



+1 for WVIZ-DT on the WOW cable system. Why WOW doesn't offer it on QAM as well is beyond me (other than the obvious "pay for HD service").










However, WOW and/or WVIZ have definitely been *fiddling* with the WVIZ-SD feed on my system as some days it is the crappy analog signal while other days it's a beautiful picture. Maybe testing digital SD?


Anyone else noticing this? If the same is happening on TWC or other cable providers then maybe it's WVIZ *fiddling* on their end.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/14312128
> 
> 
> I live in North Canton and still can't find WBNX-HD on TWC QAM but did notice the addition a few days ago of channels like HBO Comedy, DIY, Fit TV, and The Outdoor Channel. I wish they would just put FOX News back on though.



I saw some of those other channels last night, but do not see them today. I'll maybe rescan again tonight. WBNX is on 78-3 for me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14308684
> 
> 
> I also got a message that a channel had been added, CRNTOH channel 186. Either I don't really get it because it's on the higher level digital or I'm not really getting a signal.
> 
> 
> I have no idea what this channel is but I probably don't care.
> 
> 
> Edit: I just took a look, it's not listed in the guide (I don't think) under the correct name but it is in the "shopping tier". Thank the TiVo Gods I don't receive it!



I also go this on my TiVo S2, but it's not on the TWC box yet. You're right, it's up in the shopping channels, so it's probably something I can safely ignore whenever it does show up!


And yes, WNEO and WEAO are the exact same - they simulcast 100%. And they'll be "Western Reserve PBS" in the fall, presumably still keeping the legal call letters WNEO and WEAO.


Oh, just noticed over in the Youngstown thread that WYTV-DT may actually be receivable over here sometime after the digital transition! They're maxing out in a new application, 1000KW!


----------



## nickdawg

More recently asses channels: 100, 200, 300, 400 and 600. They are called "Time Warner" ans show information about the new lineup and where channels are located.


Seems a bit odd to add these channels NOW instead of in march.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14315865
> 
> 
> More recently *asses* channels: 100, 200, 300, 400 and 600. They are called "Time Warner" ans show information about the new lineup and where channels are located.
> 
> 
> Seems a bit odd to add these channels NOW instead of in march.



No one else will ask but I will. You do mean "assigned" correct? Or are you referring to TW programing people as.....well, you know.


----------



## k2rj

The S is right next to the D on the keyboard.....


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14316280
> 
> 
> No one else will ask but I will. You do mean "assigned" correct? Or are you referring to TW programing people as.....well, you know.



The "S" is right by the "D". And maybe I was subliminally letting my feelings about Time Warner through as well.







These 5 channels have perfect, clear picture on them. So do many of those shopping channels that have come up in earlier conversation.


Leads me to my next point, did Time Warner do something to the compression/bandwidth of the channels during the lineup change? I've noticed that some of the channels that used to be the over 100 channels look and sound like crap. One channel, American life on 115 is barely heard at normal volume level and the picture looks less than great. Also, I have a show recorded on Fuse from January and the picture/sound is better than now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14320444
> 
> 
> The "S" is right by the "D". And maybe I was subliminally letting my feelings about Time Warner through as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These 5 channels have perfect, clear picture on them. So do many of those shopping channels that have come up in earlier conversation.
> 
> 
> Leads me to my next point, did Time Warner do something to the compression/bandwidth of the channels during the lineup change? I've noticed that some of the channels that used to be the over 100 channels look and sound like crap. One channel, American life on 115 is barely heard at normal volume level and the picture looks less than great. Also, I have a show recorded on Fuse from January and the picture/sound is better than now.



To be fair I don't watch hardly anything on the digital channels, so I really can't blame it on Navigator software.


However I have a feeling that is more likely the case.










I have always noticed that on STO digital that the sound was softer then the analog version. I kind of accepted that as my receiver picking it up as Dolby 2.0 instead of PCM 48.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14320444
> 
> 
> One channel, American life on 115 is barely heard at normal volume level and the picture looks less than great. Also, I have a show recorded on Fuse from January and the picture/sound is better than now.



I have regular recordings on ALN/115 (the entire Monday night lineup), and I haven't noticed anything different. I'm only recording them in analog, er, digital/SD/whateever on my TiVo S2. I haven't watched ALN on the HD set to see how bad it looks. I tend to avoid watching non-HD digital cable channels on the HD set.


The PQ isn't all that great on ALN, but I always figured it was the fault of the channel itself. It does seem to be a "low-rent" channel. And the stuff I record is all old 70's sitcoms.


The sound issue...ALL of the digital cable channels seem a whole bunch softer than the analog channels. If I'm watching something off of one of the 100-plus channels, and then switch either live or recorded to something on the analog sub-100 channels, I often have to dive for the remote quickly because the analog is that much louder!


I have no idea how to fix this, or if I can even do so.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14321021
> 
> 
> I have always noticed that on STO digital that the sound was softer then the analog version. I kind of accepted that as my receiver picking it up as Dolby 2.0 instead of PCM 48.



TWC has serious issues with the volume levels on most of their channels... I've noticed this on my TiVo, my SA box, and direct cable-to-tv. The digital channel volume is always notably lower from their analog counterparts. Switching from WKYC-DT to Comedy Central analog without previously turning down the volume is guaranteed to wake up the wife late at night...


(This new keyboard I'm trying out for work really sucks. Feels like you're typing in Jello.)


mike


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14323453
> 
> 
> (This new keyboard I'm trying out for work really sucks. Feels like you're typing in Jello.)
> 
> 
> mike



Of course your expressing this opinion during your break time because I'm sure you wouldn't be on the AVS Forum while at work.










Either that or you're simply using the AVS Forum to test the keyboard with. Because we all know that while at work, we don't go on the internet.


----------



## cerickson99

Does anyone get WBNX (55.1) in HD. I lived in Cuyahoga Falls last year and I did get it with my rooftop antenna. I moved to Akron and now cannot get it. Does anyone no the status?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14323870
> 
> 
> Does anyone get WBNX (55.1) in HD. I lived in Cuyahoga Falls last year and I did get it with my rooftop antenna. I moved to Akron and now cannot get it. Does anyone no the status?



As far as I know, WBNX-DT is on as usual, pumping out full power. I live in the former Northampton Township. What part of town are you living in now?


I brought my CECB (coupon-eligible converter box) downstairs yesterday, to fit one of the only non-cable connected TVs I have - in the kitchen. I wasn't expecting much, since the TV is under the counter and the kitchen is well away from any windows...but I got all the local DTs I usually get here, including WBNX-DT, with no problem, just using standard rabbit ears.


I can't get WKYC-DT there, of course, but I can't get it anywhere else in the house on a regular basis. I'll just have to wait until 2/17/09, when it's up on the new tower on DT 17.


You really should not need a rooftop antenna to get WBNX-DT anywhere in the Akron area.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14323549
> 
> 
> Of course your expressing this opinion during your break time because I'm sure you wouldn't be on the AVS Forum while at work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either that or you're simply using the AVS Forum to test the keyboard with. Because we all know that while at work, we don't go on the internet.



Hehe... Naa, I was at home at the time. I often try out new pieces of hardware at home before buying large quantities of them for deployment at work. (That keyboard will NOT be deployed.)


Of *course* I don't spend time cruising around the net at work, especially the AVS forums... That would be a waste of company resources...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14324792
> 
> 
> As far as I know, WBNX-DT is on as usual, pumping out full power. I live in the former Northampton Township. What part of town are you living in now?
> 
> 
> I brought my CECB (coupon-eligible converter box) downstairs yesterday, to fit one of the only non-cable connected TVs I have - in the kitchen. I wasn't expecting much, since the TV is under the counter and the kitchen is well away from any windows...but I got all the local DTs I usually get here, including WBNX-DT, with no problem, just using standard rabbit ears.
> 
> 
> I can't get WKYC-DT there, of course, but I can't get it anywhere else in the house on a regular basis. I'll just have to wait until 2/17/09, when it's up on the new tower on DT 17.
> 
> 
> You really should not need a rooftop antenna to get WBNX-DT anywhere in the Akron area.



So those CECBs pick up most stations with just rabbit ears? That's good to hear. I've been considering getting one for my kitchen TV. It currently has analog cable(no box) and I hate it. I usually just watch local channels(news, sports, weather) on that TV and the SD analog PQ is garbage and I really don't care about losing the basic service channels since they are analog without a settop box. The digital TWC boxes on my other TVs are MUCH better.


I've been unsure about it since I've tried pulling in SD analog OTA and haven't had good luck. I usually get 19 and 23 perfect. 43 55 and 61 are OK. VHF are always grainy and fuzzy. Some of the other UHF are not too hot either, although I can get WFMJ from Y-Town. Since SD was bad I assumed I might as well write off HD OTA. I thought about trying clear QAM with the converter box. But you've given me some hope with OTA since you're also in Summit County.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14322990
> 
> 
> I have regular recordings on ALN/115 (the entire Monday night lineup), and I haven't noticed anything different. I'm only recording them in analog, er, digital/SD/whateever on my TiVo S2. I haven't watched ALN on the HD set to see how bad it looks. I tend to avoid watching non-HD digital cable channels on the HD set.
> 
> 
> The PQ isn't all that great on ALN, but I always figured it was the fault of the channel itself. It does seem to be a "low-rent" channel. And the stuff I record is all old 70's sitcoms.
> 
> 
> The sound issue...ALL of the digital cable channels seem a whole bunch softer than the analog channels. If I'm watching something off of one of the 100-plus channels, and then switch either live or recorded to something on the analog sub-100 channels, I often have to dive for the remote quickly because the analog is that much louder!
> 
> 
> I have no idea how to fix this, or if I can even do so.



That's the thing. I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels(former under 100 and former over 100-now combined) are ALL digital on STBs. Like the example, channels like Comedy Central and ESPN are also Dolby 2/0. That's what I don't understand. Why are some digital channels louder than others and why is PQ better on some than others?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14308684
> 
> 
> Nice letter, that's how mine usually go. And I'm not surprised you got a next (or same) day response.



Well, I called the TWC rep back Thursday afternoon. She was very pleasant to talk to, brought up some of the finer points of my email, and agreed that waiting two weeks for a tech visit was unnecessary. She implied that a group of techs available to her was outside the normal service call group, with some of them specializing in CableCards. She offered to have a tech out that evening or Friday (I passed on this due to work scheduling issues), but took her up on a 12:00-2:00 appointment Saturday (yesterday) afternoon.


Around 9AM Saturday morning, we got a phone call from a TWC rep. She said that some problems were found and corrected in our local distribution facilities, and asked me to check 410 WNEO-DT to make sure it was working (it was). We also checked a few other channels just to make sure everything was right. She also said that they noticed some signal levels between the distribution point and my CableCards were a little off and had been corrected. (See footnote.) She asked if I still wanted a tech to visit, and I told her I was OK to have this cancelled.


A-ha! I was right! (Love that feeling.







) TWC screws up again, and their front-end CSR people have no clue. Get the problem elevated to someone who know what the hell they're doing, and the problem gets fixed...


Footnote: In the past 4-6 weeks, I've had intermittent problems tuning into premium and non-broadcast HD channels. (ex: WKYC, WEWS, etc. always work, but Food-HD and Showtime were iffy.) They worked most of the time, but I was starting to get complaints from my wife. The Tivo signal-strength meter would vary between 60-100%, without any discernable pattern. After a bunch of in-house testing, I was starting to suspect the (old) cable run between the incoming splitter and the TiVo, but this may not be the case. Since TWC made their corrections, I haven't noticed any problems tuning these channels, but will give it a few days...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14328433
> 
> 
> I've been considering getting one for my kitchen TV. It currently has analog cable(no box) and I hate it. I usually just watch local channels(news, sports, weather) on that TV and the SD analog PQ is garbage and I really don't care about losing the basic service channels since they are analog without a settop box.



OK, I gotta ask... It's a kitchen TV. Maybe 15" at the most. And you're that worried about PQ?










Of course, if you have a 42" Plasma in there, I just need to come see your kitchen!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14328457
> 
> 
> OK, I gotta ask... It's a kitchen TV. Maybe 15" at the most. And you're that worried about PQ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, if you have a 42" Plasma in there, I just need to come see your kitchen!



PQ on all my stations in the birds room was crap until I got the digital converter. So either you get it with rabbit ears or you don't.


And I think the birds TV is 13".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14328450
> 
> 
> Well, I called the TWC rep back Thursday afternoon. She was very pleasant to talk to, brought up some of the finer points of my email, and agreed that waiting two weeks for a tech visit was unnecessary. She implied that a group of techs available to her was outside the normal service call group, with some of them specializing in CableCards. She offered to have a tech out that evening or Friday (I passed on this due to work scheduling issues), but took her up on a 12:00-2:00 appointment Saturday (yesterday) afternoon.
> 
> 
> Around 9AM Saturday morning, we got a phone call from a TWC rep. She said that some problems were found and corrected in our local distribution facilities, and asked me to check 410 WNEO-DT to make sure it was working (it was). We also checked a few other channels just to make sure everything was right. She also said that they noticed some signal levels between the distribution point and my CableCards were a little off and had been corrected. (See footnote.) She asked if I still wanted a tech to visit, and I told her I was OK to have this cancelled.
> 
> 
> A-ha! I was right! (Love that feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) TWC screws up again, and their front-end CSR people have no clue. Get the problem elevated to someone who know what the hell they're doing, and the problem gets fixed...
> 
> 
> Footnote: In the past 4-6 weeks, I've had intermittent problems tuning into premium and non-broadcast HD channels. (ex: WKYC, WEWS, etc. always work, but Food-HD and Showtime were iffy.) They worked most of the time, but I was starting to get complaints from my wife. The Tivo signal-strength meter would vary between 60-100%, without any discernable pattern. After a bunch of in-house testing, I was starting to suspect the (old) cable run between the incoming splitter and the TiVo, but this may not be the case. Since TWC made their corrections, I haven't noticed any problems tuning these channels, but will give it a few days...



And there is a lesson to be learned here. You know what the techs and CSR's are capable of by now. When it comes to these type of issues (if you have them again) don't waste your time on waiting on them. Make the service call appointment but after you do that and get that two week waiting period. write again, "from past experience I have seen that when a regular tech shows up they are not able to deal with these problems and I have to wait longer to get them fixed."


You will get a call and that special service.


And I'll bet that person you spoke with worked in headend, or at least contacted headend about your problem. You see that's the real problem is that the techs leave and they don't even think about giving headend a call. "It's a bad TiVo" is usually what they will say.


You are not "abusing" anything. You are simply keyed in to getting good customer service now, which is what YOU deserve.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14328763
> 
> 
> PQ on all my stations in the birds room was crap until I got the digital converter. So either you get it with rabbit ears or you don't.
> 
> 
> And I think the birds TV is 13".



I have to agree. You'd be quite surprised at the PQ improvement on even a small-ish tv like that going from something like analog cable or overcompressed SD digital channels to something such as downressed (at the converter) OTA HD channels with bandwidth 'breathing room'.


I even tried something similar once with my 19" set hooked up via s-video to my HD set-top. Was watching primetime HD/letterboxed material on NBC (L&O:SVU to be exact). Even going from the SD channel to downressed/letterboxed HD was like night and day.


The case probably is that even the satellite feeds for something like SD material is noticably compressed in some fashion to where occasional scenarios make it visible to the naked eye. But in 90% of cases especially with national broadcast television and and native HD programming, most stations are only broadcasting in 720p/1080i OTA anyhow and at that point even having it downressed to 480i by a converter, the compression artifacts practically disappear at that conversion ratio.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14328792
> 
> 
> ............ But in 90% of cases especially with national broadcast television and and native HD programming, most stations are only broadcasting in 720p/1080i OTA anyhow and at that point even having it downressed to 480i by a converter, the compression artifacts practically disappear at that conversion ratio.



I believe all OTA is limited to 720p/1080i and will remain so. I think to do 1080p OTA would eat up too much bandwidth and would require another Natl. DTV Conversion requiring all new equipment upgrades again from the broadcaster to new CECB boxes. For OTA 720p/1080i is as good as it gets.


----------



## terryfoster

1080p is a part of the ATSC standard and a specific compression format isn't. So your local affiliates could broadcast in 1080p using MPEG4 (assuming that provides an adequate picture at 19.39Mbps), but they won't since they know the public equipment doesn't support it and they've just dumped a untold number of millions of dollars in upgrading for the analog cutoff. By the time they're ready to upgrade again, compression technologies will have improved to the point that 1080p should be feasible.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14328951
> 
> 
> 1080p is a part of the ATSC standard and a specific compression format isn't. So your local affiliates could broadcast in 1080p using MPEG4 (assuming that provides an adequate picture at 19.39Mbps), but they won't since they know the public equipment doesn't support it and they've just dumped a untold number of millions of dollars in upgrading for the analog cutoff. By the time they're ready to upgrade again, compression technologies will have improved to the point that 1080p should be feasible.



Yup. To utilize current OTA bandwidth limitations MPEG4 would be the (current) compression format of choice. But again, that's an entire other DTV conversion that neither broadcasters nor consumers want to go through.


Digital 1080p on every channel via OTA/Cable/Sat.....now that would be a dream come true!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14329005
> 
> 
> Digital 1080p on every channel via OTA/Cable/Sat.....now that would be a dream come true!



I don't know. From people I've talked to the pq of 1080p vs 720p is highly overrated. It was from that discussion that I decided to go bigger on my TV and get the 720p instead of a smaller screen 1080p.


Now you know what I would consider a dream come true? Broadcast 3D television, without any glasses and that stuff.


I remember going to a theater in the 70's and seeing a 3D version of Andy Warholes Frankenstein. Glasses of course but wow that was something. Now if I were to see the same thing today I wonder if I would be so impressed.


BTW that was a very gross film and I still have this vision of let's say a certain part of the male anatomy dangling from an arrow in front of my face. Yech!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14329679
> 
> 
> I don't know. From people I've talked to the pq of 1080p vs 720p is highly overrated. It was from that discussion that I decided to go bigger on my TV and get the 720p instead of a smaller screen 1080p.
> 
> 
> Now you know what I would consider a dream come true? Broadcast 3D television, without any glasses and that stuff.
> 
> 
> I remember going to a theater in the 70's and seeing a 3D version of Andy Warholes Frankenstein. Glasses of course but wow that was something. Now if I were to see the same thing today I wonder if I would be so impressed.
> 
> 
> BTW that was a very gross film and I still have this vision of let's say a certain part of the male anatomy dangling from an arrow in front of my face. Yech!!



Broadcast 3D would indeed be awesome!


I think you are confusing 1080i with 1080p. 720p & 1080i are almost indistinguishable from each other at a normal viewing distance.

Either are quite adequate for OTA/Cable/Sat.

1080p is quite different.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14329750
> 
> 
> I think you are confusing 1080i with 1080p. 720p & 1080i are almost indistinguishable from each other at a normal viewing distance.
> 
> Either are quite adequate for OTA/Cable/Sat.
> 
> 1080p is quite different.



Here's a good chart you might find helpful when discussing visual acuity for resolutions at certain distances and screen sizes.











1080p isn't going to do me any good with my screen size and viewing distance.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14329935
> 
> 
> .........1080p isn't going to do me any good with my screen size and viewing distance.



What is your screen size? Why do they not graph 1080i?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14329750
> 
> 
> Broadcast 3D would indeed be awesome!
> 
> 
> I think you are confusing 1080i with 1080p. 720p & 1080i are almost indistinguishable from each other at a normal viewing distance.
> 
> Either are quite adequate for OTA/Cable/Sat.
> 
> 1080p is quite different.



No buddy, I'm not confusing them and they are quite different. That is 720p and 1080i.


I've never seen 1080p. Somebody in this forum advised me to go with 720p and that's what I went with based on his advice that there was not that 1080p is highly overrated. And he was not talking about 1080i.


i is interlaced. p is progressive. I know the difference.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14329935
> 
> 
> Here's a good chart you might find helpful when discussing visual acuity for resolutions at certain distances and screen sizes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1080p isn't going to do me any good with my screen size and viewing distance.



Awesome chart Terry and that was exactly why he told me to go with 720p. I'm about 8 feet away from the TV, perfect for 720p LCD 37".


Terry, were you the one who suggested the 720p? I can't remember who it was.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14330232
> 
> 
> No buddy, I'm not confusing them and they are quite different. That is 720p and 1080i.
> 
> 
> I've never seen 1080p. Somebody in this forum advised me to go with 720p and that's what I went with based on his advice that there was not that 1080p is highly overrated. And he was not talking about 1080i.
> 
> 
> i is interlaced. p is progressive. I know the difference.



Yes. You received good advice and screen size & viewing distance are surely factors. For the same reason I did not go 1080p on my two 42" plasmas.


Where 1080p would make a an improvement in broadcast tv (which is not in the foreseeable future) would be in motion artifacts like sporting events.







As this seemed unlikely even two years ago I went 720p & 1080i.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14330246
> 
> 
> Terry, were you the one who suggested the 720p? I can't remember who it was.



I may have been. I kind of lose track of those things


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14328433
> 
> 
> I thought about trying clear QAM with the converter box. But you've given me some hope with OTA since you're also in Summit County.



I don't wanna give you TOO much hope...even the kitchen is probably bathing in some RF because I have a big loft window in the general direction of Parma, and I'm on a hill.


But I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the reception was, and I'm just using garden variety rabbit ears on the counter. (The TV is under the counter - the only problem I have is that to use the kitchen, I have to walk in front of the antenna!







)


Generally speaking, and the folks in the CECB threads can properly address this, it appears those boxes have good tuners in them, at least the Zenith/Insignia box does - 5th gen of some sort.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14328446
> 
> 
> That's the thing. I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels(former under 100 and former over 100-now combined) are ALL digital on STBs. Like the example, channels like Comedy Central and ESPN are also Dolby 2/0. That's what I don't understand. Why are some digital channels louder than others and why is PQ better on some than others?



Ah, we've reached the Old TWC/New TWC divide. You're on the old Akron/Canton TWC system, and I'm on the old Adelphia/Cleveland system. TWC never bothered to extend their cable out to Northampton Township, so those living out here (OUT here!) went without cable until Cablevision's Cleveland-based system started wiring up western Summit County...which eventually became Adelphia, and is now in TWC's ballpark.


As far as I know, of the sub-100 "analog" channels, only the local OTA stations are digital on STBs in the former Adelphia territories, and only 3/5/8/19/43.


They're apparently moving to change that - as I noted on a message here a while back, I've spotted several "analog" cable channels being mirrored up in unused 800 series channels. This is exactly what Adelphia did before they made 3/5/8/19/43 digital on digital boxes.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14328792
> 
> 
> I have to agree. You'd be quite surprised at the PQ improvement on even a small-ish tv like that going from something like analog cable or overcompressed SD digital channels to something such as downressed (at the converter) OTA HD channels with bandwidth 'breathing room'.



I've got that CECB in the kitchen on a small (13") set, and I can notice the difference even when the source material isn't HD.


And as hookbill will tell you, until I got my HD LCD set for the loft, I was watching the output of my SA8000HD DVR box on an analog tube set, and the picture improvement was noticeable there, too!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14332761
> 
> 
> They're apparently moving to change that - as I noted on a message here a while back, I've spotted several "analog" cable channels being mirrored up in unused 800 series channels. This is exactly what Adelphia did before they made 3/5/8/19/43 digital on digital boxes.



I'll have to check to see if those 800s channels are here too ro not. I have the foreign language channels there. However we do have a bunch of channels in the 790s and 950s that are subscription service. The Diganostic screen confirms they are SDV. Try entering channel numbers 791 and 949 and see if anything comes up on those channels. My box says USA on 791 and FX on 949.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14332952
> 
> 
> I'll have to check to see if those 800s channels are here too ro not. I have the foreign language channels there. However we do have a bunch of channels in the 790s and 950s that are subscription service. The Diganostic screen confirms they are SDV. Try entering channel numbers 791 and 949 and see if anything comes up on those channels. My box says USA on 791 and FX on 949.



I'm not near my SA8000HD right now, but on my analog digital cable box, they just bump me to the next channels.


The 800-series mirrors on the former Adelphia system are just above the foreign language channels, and are:


BOOM 875

CSPN2 876

CSPN3 877

HNEWS 878

DKIDS 879

DSCI 880

DISNY 881

DIY 882

FIT 883

H&GTV 884

FAMAL 885

NOGIN 886

TWC 887

TOOND 888

FOOD 889


I'll have to go looking back at the old lineup, but I'm pretty sure some of these - if not many - were digital before the lineup change. C-SPAN3 definitely was, as it was never analog...and still isn't, in this mirrored configuration.


So, right now, I don't know what the heck they're doing. But pre-lineup change, the 800 series was where they stuck the analog 3/5/8/19/43 for digital cable box viewers.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14333294
> 
> 
> I'm not near my SA8000HD right now, but on my analog digital cable box, they just bump me to the next channels.



Are you refering to channels 792 and 949? Those channels are not in the guide. They have to be entered w/ the number keys. 7-9-2; 9-4-9



> Quote:
> The 800-series mirrors on the former Adelphia system are just above the foreign language channels, and are:
> 
> 
> BOOM 875
> 
> CSPN2 876
> 
> CSPN3 877
> 
> HNEWS 878
> 
> DKIDS 879
> 
> DSCI 880
> 
> DISNY 881
> 
> DIY 882
> 
> FIT 883
> 
> H&GTV 884
> 
> FAMAL 885
> 
> NOGIN 886
> 
> TWC 887
> 
> TOOND 888
> 
> FOOD 889
> 
> 
> I'll have to go looking back at the old lineup, but I'm pretty sure some of these - if not many - were digital before the lineup change. C-SPAN3 definitely was, as it was never analog...and still isn't, in this mirrored configuration.
> 
> 
> So, right now, I don't know what the heck they're doing. But pre-lineup change, the 800 series was where they stuck the analog 3/5/8/19/43 for digital cable box viewers.



Yeah, now I know what you were talking about. I have these channels too. They all work so they can't be SDV test channels. I don't know why they would be there, I think your theory is right. Before we went all digital two years back we used to have some channels up in the 600s that were copies of analog channels like TWC, CNN, TNT, A&E and USA. Except these channels went away with the lineup change.


And yes, Boomerang, CSPAN3, Discovery Kids, Discovery Science, DIY, Nogin, Toon Disney and CSPAN2(later) used to be the "over 100" channels. (885 is subscription so I have no clue what FAMAL is).


Hey Hook, check your Tivo lineup to see if any of these 800 series channels are there.


----------



## Vchat20

@toby10: Like the others have said, the ATSC standard isn't as limited as you think. All standard resolutions: 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p are all supported in the spec as-is the use of mpeg4 as also stated.


But in the majority of cases that at least I have seen, OTA stations are broadcasting in either 720p or 1080i exclusively. The only difference is when you are talking subchannels or really low-budget stations. I know here in the youngstown area, the big 4 (WFMJ,WKBN,WYTV,WNEO/WEAO) already broadcast in 720p or 1080i. Even WFMJ which hasn't had the budget to upgrade their equipment to broadcast local programming in HD has been capable of keeping the national programming in it's original 1080i format. Hence why I mentioned that usually when coming from anything but OTA digital broadcasts to OTA HD will be like night and day even on smaller sets. Between of the larger resolution being downressed to 480i, better bandwidth situations, and any possible compression artifacts being practically gone altogether after the picture being resized, you're talking the equivalent of a properly encoded dvd fed via S-video or component in quality if not better.


Also, just as reference to the last few posts: Usually it is pretty easy to tell what is an analog channel and what is a digital simulcast just by how fast the channel tunes if you watch it. In addition, if you own an SA*HD*C* box, those have the analog tuners removed so any channel you do get is ALWAYS digital. Just to keep it in perspective.


I don't know how the ex-Adelphia areas have been managed by TWC or how they were even set up by Adelphia beforehand, but here in the legacy TWC area, we've had digital simulcasting of the lower


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14328446
> 
> 
> That's the thing. I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels(former under 100 and former over 100-now combined) are ALL digital on STBs. Like the example, channels like Comedy Central and ESPN are also Dolby 2/0. That's what I don't understand. Why are some digital channels louder than others and why is PQ better on some than others?



They are probably upgraded analog, not true digital. We still have analog stations under 100 over here.


Those other stations would have to be upgraded unless they are now following your evil plot, whoops, I mean good suggestion to force the peasants to purchase a box.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14333943
> 
> 
> They are probably upgraded analog, not true digital. We still have analog stations under 100 over here.
> 
> 
> Those other stations would have to be upgraded unless they are now following your evil plot, whoops, I mean good suggestion to force the peasants to purchase a box.



They have to be upgraded analog. There is a night and day difference between the PW on WNEO PBS. Try watching it on the regular tier, then switch it to the straight up digital channel in the digital tier.


WNEO analog looks like Sh**.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14333583
> 
> 
> Are you refering to channels 792 and 949? Those channels are not in the guide. They have to be entered w/ the number keys. 7-9-2; 9-4-9



Which I d-i-d, and as I said, the box kicked me to the nearest adjacent existing channel.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14333583
> 
> 
> Hey Hook, check your Tivo lineup to see if any of these 800 series channels are there.



I'm not hookbill, but I have the same TiVo lineup, and those extra 800's channels are not there. I only see them by using the cable box guide.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/14335601
> 
> 
> They have to be upgraded analog. There is a night and day difference between the PW on WNEO PBS. Try watching it on the regular tier, then switch it to the straight up digital channel in the digital tier.
> 
> 
> WNEO analog looks like Sh**.



I'm confused, here. WNEO/WEAO should only exist in two places in the "legacy" Akron/Canton lineup...the regular analog version, and the PBS HD version at 410. As far as I know, the lower-channel version is the regular analog, and there is no "digital" version of 45/49 aside from the PBS HD feed on 410.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14335765
> 
> 
> I'm confused, here. WNEO/WEAO should only exist in two places in the "legacy" Akron/Canton lineup...the regular analog version, and the PBS HD version at 410. As far as I know, the lower-channel version is the regular analog, and there is no "digital" version of 45/49 aside from the PBS HD feed on 410.



I think they removed the all digital version of WNEO/WEAO when they did the lineup changes. It is still available OTA, and if you can get it, try comparing it to TWC's channel.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> I'm confused, here. WNEO/WEAO should only exist in two places in the "legacy" Akron/Canton lineup...the regular analog version, and the PBS HD version at 410. As far as I know, the lower-channel version is the regular analog, and there is no "digital" version of 45/49 aside from the PBS HD feed on 410.



I have Lifeline Basic on TW in Canton. I get 45/49 SD (very crappy picture). Then via QAM I also get 45/49 DT AND WNEO/WEAO HD on a different channel. Recently, they've just (re)added WVIZ-HD (I also get WVIZ SD). There has never been a WVIZ-DT channel though.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/14335869
> 
> 
> I think they removed the all digital version of WNEO/WEAO when they did the lineup changes. It is still available OTA, and if you can get it, try comparing it to TWC's channel.



Yeah, I get it downstairs on the CECB in the kitchen with no problem, it's 49.2 (PBS HD is 49.1).


I just didn't realize TWC had an "all-digital" SD version of WNEO anywhere in the lineup...I know they didn't here in the former Adelphia areas, though they do carry WVIZ-DT's two subs, The Ohio Channel and PBS World.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14335871
> 
> 
> I have Lifeline Basic on TW in Canton. I get 45/49 SD (very crappy picture). Then via QAM I also get 45/49 DT AND WNEO/WEAO HD on a different channel. Recently, they've just (re)added WVIZ-HD (I also get WVIZ SD). There has never been a WVIZ-DT channel though.



Let me reclarify exactly what I am getting here...

SD (Lifeline Basic / no box)

WVIZ (2)

WNEO/WEAO (12)

DT (via QAM)

WNEO/WEAO (49-2)

The Ohio Channel (78-2)

PBS World (78-3)

HD (via QAM)

WNEO/WEAO (49-1)

WVIZ (78-1)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/14335601
> 
> 
> They have to be upgraded analog. There is a night and day difference between the PW on WNEO PBS. Try watching it on the regular tier, then switch it to the straight up digital channel in the digital tier.
> 
> 
> WNEO analog looks like Sh**.



The SD local channels are upconverted analog. TWC gets an analog feed from the broadcast station(for now). I remember that channel. I always used to watch 550 instead of 10(b/c 10 looks like sh**).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14335932
> 
> 
> Yeah, I get it downstairs on the CECB in the kitchen with no problem, it's 49.2 (PBS HD is 49.1).
> 
> 
> I just didn't realize TWC had an "all-digital" SD version of WNEO anywhere in the lineup...I know they didn't here in the former Adelphia areas, though they do carry WVIZ-DT's two subs, The Ohio Channel and PBS World.



WNEO-DT used to be channel 550(right next to WNEO HD). It was dropped during the lineup change(which seems pointless since they'll have to re-add it sooner or later when WNEO analog goes away).


We also used to get WKYC-DT, before Weather Plus was on that channel it was a digital simulcast of NBC.


----------



## Inundated

OK, I think I get it, now.


The SD/non-HD version of WNEO/WEAO (45.2/49.2) probably show up in the QAM because they're interjected with the QAM encoding of the -DT signals. It doesn't appear that TWC, at this point, carries those digital-based SD simulcasts on the regular lineup anywhere...after the lineup change.


The "digital cable box" simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 are indeed just a cable upconversion of the analog signals, though I submit that most of the locals apparently send their feeds directly via fiber to the cable headend (presumably Lakeside near downtown Cleveland for TWC, the former Adelphia facility?).


So, not quite analog OTA, but SD definitely. I'm guessing 45/49 does not have a fiber feed, but I could be wrong.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg what I don't understand is why are they converting the analog to digital? I can understand doing that with the HD stations but not every shopping channel or local.


It doesn't make sense. I really wouldn't have believed you if you didn't say you see Dolby 2.0 on these channels.


Are you sure it's all of them? Heck we don't even have digital WBNX, I think that's still analog.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14338783
> 
> 
> OK, I think I get it, now.
> 
> 
> The SD/non-HD version of WNEO/WEAO (45.2/49.2) probably show up in the QAM because they're interjected with the QAM encoding of the -DT signals. It doesn't appear that TWC, at this point, carries those digital-based SD simulcasts on the regular lineup anywhere...after the lineup change.
> 
> 
> The "digital cable box" simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 are indeed just a cable upconversion of the analog signals, though I submit that most of the locals apparently send their feeds directly via fiber to the cable headend (presumably Lakeside near downtown Cleveland for TWC, the former Adelphia facility?).
> 
> 
> So, not quite analog OTA, but SD definitely. I'm guessing 45/49 does not have a fiber feed, but I could be wrong.



Why would you take a digital feed, convert it to analog, then convert it back to digital?


I don't believe for one minute they have a digital feed line for those local stations. I think they pick them up OTA just like the rest of us. Or people who have regular OTA reception.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14338790
> 
> 
> nickdawg what I don't understand is why are they converting the analog to digital? I can understand doing that with the HD stations but not every shopping channel or local.



Repeat after me - analog channels hog bandwidth.


Analog channels hog bandwidth.


And I repeat, analog channels hog bandwidth.


The more of them they can squeeze into (SD) QAM channels, the more room they have for more channels of both varieties.


TWC execs have been quoted that they want to basically offer "unlmited" HD channels - compared to the wave of HD coming in for the satellite providers with new satellites and MPEG4. The only way they can come close to their promise is to free up analog bandwidth by moving as many channels off analog as possible, and then by eventually deploying SDV.


It has nothing to do whether home shopping channels and the like "should" be in digital, but rather moving them off analog frees up room.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14338835
> 
> 
> Repeat after me - analog channels hog bandwidth.



There's a pretty good (albeit extremely basic) primer on analog v. digital and the bandwidth savings on the PBS site. The article is actually a pretty quick and fun read.


A couple of pages later, the article brings up the benefits of an interactive experience with DTV. It specifically mentions the interactive boxes (QUBE, I think it was called) that TW deployed back in the late 80's and early 90's. I was living in Columbus at the time, and a friend of mine had one of those boxes. It was pretty cool. I remember he could chat with a friend of his down the block.


I also remember having a Hauppage video card in the early 90's that did somewhat of the same thing. NBC and one other broadcaster (I can't remember which one now) were broadcasting essentially web pages in the VBI signals (the same ones that carry the closed captioning information) that the card could display. I can remember watching the olympics on NBC and having a split screen that would display facts and times for the various sports. Even some of the commercials had their own info.


I wish I could remember what that was called, but it's escaping me now.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14339158
> 
> 
> I wish I could remember what that was called, but it's escaping me now.



Are you thinking of Teletext? I have a Zenith TV set that has Teletext decoding built-in. It used available "white space" in the vertical blanking interval. I used to use it to download news to my screen. I think I also got a birthday message posted there once.


It's pretty much defunct now (at least for consumers). There was a company that was using a version of Teletext that was encrypted and was used to display hauling opportunities on tv screens at truck stops.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14339158
> 
> 
> There's a pretty good (albeit extremely basic) primer on analog v. digital and the bandwidth savings on the PBS site. The article is actually a pretty quick and fun read.
> 
> 
> A couple of pages later, the article brings up the benefits of an interactive experience with DTV. It specifically mentions the interactive boxes (QUBE, I think it was called) that TW deployed back in the late 80's and early 90's. I was living in Columbus at the time, and a friend of mine had one of those boxes. It was pretty cool. I remember he could chat with a friend of his down the block.
> 
> 
> I also remember having a Hauppage video card in the early 90's that did somewhat of the same thing. NBC and one other broadcaster (I can't remember which one now) were broadcasting essentially web pages in the VBI signals (the same ones that carry the closed captioning information) that the card could display. I can remember watching the olympics on NBC and having a split screen that would display facts and times for the various sports. Even some of the commercials had their own info.
> 
> 
> I wish I could remember what that was called, but it's escaping me now.



I remember my old Win98 based gateway box had an application called 'Wavetop' which supposedly did this in combination with the software version of webtv that came preinstalled. Though, by the time I got a working tuner in the machine both webtv and the wavetop system were long dead. Either that or the local stations didn't bother broadcasting the signals any longer.


I also remember a similar device back when the Sega Genesis/Saturn was still hot stuff that allowed daily game downloads and such over supported cable systems.


There were MANY of these systems that were attempted way back then and quite innovative tbh.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14339313
> 
> 
> Are you thinking of Teletext?



It came to me while I was just putting the kids to bed. It was called Intel Intercast, and I believe it was the US version of Teletext. And it wasn't all that long ago, as VChat pointed out. I had forgotten that Win98 originally had WinTV built in which was supposed to do the same thing. So that makes this stuff only ~10 to 12 years old!


Of course I'm ignoring the fact that in the age of 7 year olds having Myspace pages, 12 years old really is, well, old.










I also remember the Sega download service. I think Ameritech's cable system supported that.


To bring it back on topic, does anyone know of any plans for the broadcasters to include extra digital information in their streams such as news or other content? The article from the PBS site appears to have been written 10 years ago or so, and I have never heard of anything in the works.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14338790
> 
> 
> nickdawg what I don't understand is why are they converting the analog to digital? I can understand doing that with the HD stations but not every shopping channel or local.
> 
> 
> It doesn't make sense. I really wouldn't have believed you if you didn't say you see Dolby 2.0 on these channels.
> 
> 
> Are you sure it's all of them? Heck we don't even have digital WBNX, I think that's still analog.



They're converting the SD local channels to digital. The rest of them _may_ be real digital. They all say Dolby 2.0 and diganostics says QAM 256.


The reason why they have channels like shopping on digital is because ANALOG WASTES BANDWIDTH!! It would be foolish to put crap like that on analog.


And we don't have WBNX digital either(just HD). SD is an OBVIOUS upconversion because there is ghosting and lines in the picture.


It is all of them. Only that public access channel is analog. EVERYTHING else is digital. ESPN, ESPN2, CNN, MSNBC, FX, USA, TNT, FOOD, HGTV, Weather Channel, Cartoon Network, MTV, Bravo, A&E, History, Discovery, TLC... They're all Dolby and QAM 256.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14338835
> 
> 
> Repeat after me - analog channels hog bandwidth.
> 
> 
> Analog channels hog bandwidth.
> 
> 
> And I repeat, analog channels hog bandwidth.
> 
> 
> The more of them they can squeeze into (SD) QAM channels, the more room they have for more channels of both varieties.



Ha Ha Ha, you are just so funny! So we take digital straight off a fiber and we convert it to analog to all those cheap pions who won't buy a box. Then we convert it back to digital for those of us so we can have completely crappy digital.


Why not do it this way? Pipe the direct digital field to the digital people and then convert the analog? Where does this conversion take place? If it takes place at the headend then why does it make more sense to convert digital to analog and then back to digital? I mean they have to know who gets the digital signal, right?


I fully understand the point of using digital vs analog. I'm not as dumb as you look.














I just don't get the way they do it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14339762
> 
> 
> Ha Ha Ha, you are just so funny! So we take digital straight off a fiber and we convert it to analog to all those cheap pions who won't buy a box. Then we convert it back to digital for those of us so we can have completely crappy digital.



The missing part of this equation - at some point, the "end game" will do away with analog entirely. How they get there, I don't know, but analog will go away at some point on TWC and all other cable systems.


Do they supply low-end boxes to all the analog folks, like Massillon/Clear Picture will do next year? Do they fix up their QAM so that's the eventual equivalent of "analog basic"? I don't know, but analog will go away. Sometime down the road.


In the meantime, they can push a bunch of digital/QAM channels up into "Digital Basic"...the new lineup is the first step in that. At some point, a certain number of those channels will stop being put into analog form, and bingo!, more bandwidth for more digital.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14339762
> 
> 
> I fully understand the point of using digital vs analog. I'm not as dumb as you look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't get the way they do it.



See above. The duplicative analog/digital stuff will slowly go away, as "digital basic" becomes the new "normal". As each analog channel gets pulled in favor of digital basic, fed by QAM, they get more bandwidth.


What'll be left in analog? The lifeline/local/below 25 lineup, I'm guessing. And at some point, it'll go away entirely, per the above.


This is entirely my own "tea leaf reading" of the cable marketplace, but I think it's not far from what will be reality.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14339353
> 
> 
> There were MANY of these systems that were attempted way back then and quite innovative tbh.



Though I think they were only using phone lines/modems at the time, something from Control Data was doing this for the old Atari 2600/VCS game system.


You plugged in a cartridge hooked to the thing, and it gave you access to a whole bunch of new games. I bring it up because I think they were looking into other methods of delivery, possibly via TV.


Control Data eventually changed its name to Quantum Computer Services, and dumped the video game angle to start a new online service for the Commodore 64 home computer known as "Q-Link". I know, I was "there" (virtually) at the start in 1985.


Q-Link/Quantum eventually became today's America Online.


----------



## dleising

Yeah, I saw that WKYC had an SD simulcast channel some time ago. But losing it was not a big deal for me. WKYC has the best analog PQ of any of the locals on TWC, IMO. ABC looks OK, WOIO looks like it has horrible color, WJW looks washed out and too bright, and WBNX/WNEO just look like pure garbage. WVIZ looks decent.


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of SD channels, has anyone noticed the audio sucks on SD WOIO? The audio seems to be 2x louder than any of the other channels around it and sounds like it is being broadcast through a CB radio.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14339876
> 
> 
> Though I think they were only using phone lines/modems at the time, something from Control Data was doing this for the old Atari 2600/VCS game system.
> 
> 
> You plugged in a cartridge hooked to the thing, and it gave you access to a whole bunch of new games. I bring it up because I think they were looking into other methods of delivery, possibly via TV.
> 
> 
> Control Data eventually changed its name to Quantum Computer Services, and dumped the video game angle to start a new online service for the Commodore 64 home computer known as "Q-Link". I know, I was "there" (virtually) at the start in 1985.
> 
> 
> Q-Link/Quantum eventually became today's America Online.



Actually, not so. Maybe some systems that required a return path relied heavily on a dialup-based system, but ones like the earlier ones mentioned here which were happy being downstream-only all commonly used the existing cable infrastructure to 'multicast' the data to people.


And if they required a return path, such as the first DCT's Time Warner offered when digital cable first came out on just a one-way plant, they used a simple phone modem for that use while the cable line remained in use for the bandwidth-heavy downstream.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14339858
> 
> 
> The missing part of this equation - at some point, the "end game" will do away with analog entirely. How they get there, I don't know, but analog will go away at some point on TWC and all other cable systems.
> 
> 
> Do they supply low-end boxes to all the analog folks, like Massillon/Clear Picture will do next year? Do they fix up their QAM so that's the eventual equivalent of "analog basic"? I don't know, but analog will go away. Sometime down the road.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, they can push a bunch of digital/QAM channels up into "Digital Basic"...the new lineup is the first step in that. At some point, a certain number of those channels will stop being put into analog form, and bingo!, more bandwidth for more digital.
> 
> 
> What'll be left in analog? The lifeline/local/below 25 lineup, I'm guessing. And at some point, it'll go away entirely, per the above.
> 
> 
> This is entirely my own "tea leaf reading" of the cable marketplace, but I think it's not far from what will be reality.



This is what I think. Since you can get an analog converter for about 10 to 15 bucks with the coupon and everyone who has OTA only will have to get one, cable has a big chance to cash in.


First, there will be so many people who still will not get the message. I am saying this based on my life experience. Do you know how many people do not even open their mail? Heck my wife doesn't balance her own checking account. Fortunately I balance the joint one and my own. When I married her 11 years ago she was one of the "throw it on the desk" until I look at it people. I've since got her on the right path on that.


And I'll bet even many of you guys do that same thing. Doesn't make you a bad person, just that we get overwhelmed by so much junk we can't tell what's important and what is.


So these coupons come in the mail that people request. Now it took a bit for mine to get here. How many people do you think will actually open it? Can you see people just throwing it away thinking it's junk mail?


Then wham, 2/9/09 (or whatever the date is) hits. Those who kept their coupons and haven't used them run out to get the box only to find out that there is this little issue about reception in some areas.


So along comes TW and says hey, listen. We will sign you up, free install and for just 20 bucks you can have our digital converter. Almost the same price as the coupon. And you won't have to go up on your roof and rearrange your antenna or buy a new antenna. Of course there is this monthly fee, but look at all the trouble we will save you. And will they be mad at TW? Nope, they will blame the government.


As a CSR I see this all the time. And of course it's always my fault they didn't open their mail.










Just something to think about.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14340956
> 
> 
> Actually, not so. Maybe some systems that required a return path relied heavily on a dialup-based system, but ones like the earlier ones mentioned here which were happy being downstream-only all commonly used the existing cable infrastructure to 'multicast' the data to people.



I already said that I'm pretty sure the CD system used a dialup modem...that's how they eventually migrated to a dialup online service. I just mentioned it here because I thought I'd heard they were investigating using downstream cable bandwidth at some point. This was about the time the old Warner Cable was deploying "Qube" down in Columbus.


I think they basically abandoned the move because the Control Data game business got converted to the online service.


I wasn't at all associated with the company at that point - and even after "Q-Link" kicked in, I was only a remote person - so I could get getting some of the facts wrong.


----------



## Inundated

Oops, my error...Control Video, not Control Data.


Much more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_Online#History 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameline


----------



## Vchat20

Ah. My bad. Must have missed that part of your original post.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14343151
> 
> 
> Ah. My bad. Must have missed that part of your original post.



None of the "Gameline" article mentions the possibility of using cable bandwidth, so maybe it was just rumor floating around the Q-Link universe at the time. I knew some folks down in Vienna (Virginia, suburban DC), and even visited the HQ in 1986, I think it was.


"Gameline" was old news and abandoned by then, but I'm sure the hubbub over "Qube" had some of the folks in Vienna wondering if there was a path for a future one-way delivery along cable lines.


Of course, no one in 1986 knew what would happen in the early 2000s.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14309780
> 
> 
> Just in case anyone cares, looks like Warner has done another channel realignment for the QAM down here in Canton. WBNX-HD is now on QAM channel 78-4. There were a couple different channels added too, including WVIZ-HD (which we've already had WEAO/WNEO-HD for quite a while, and they are simulcast so...).
> 
> What I'd really like is WVIZ-DT, because my kids like to watch the SD channel in the mornings, and the SD always looks like crapola.



Anybody using QAM in the Cleveland TWC area get re-aligned too? I'm up in richmond heights, and noticed yesterday that none of my "special qam" (tnt, dsc, tbs, etc) channels were there anymore. I didn't do a re-scan, but I will when I get home tonight.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Warner is slowly but surely eliminating all the "bonus" channels on QAM. Soon enough it will be locals and PBS only, since that's what it's supposed to be anyway. Looks like no more free lunch







.


----------



## TYTONK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14343316
> 
> 
> Anybody using QAM in the Cleveland TWC area get re-aligned too? I'm up in richmond heights, and noticed yesterday that none of my "special qam" (tnt, dsc, tbs, etc) channels were there anymore. I didn't do a re-scan, but I will when I get home tonight.



Lighting Guy - I experienced the same thing, lost TBS 88-3, TNT 88-11, STO 106-1, etc. Did a re-scan but did not find them anywhere else. Let me konw if you have any luck.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14335871
> 
> 
> I have Lifeline Basic on TW in Canton. I get 45/49 SD (very crappy picture). Then via QAM I also get 45/49 DT AND WNEO/WEAO HD on a different channel. Recently, they've just (re)added WVIZ-HD (I also get WVIZ SD). There has never been a WVIZ-DT channel though.



It is my understanding that TWC imports WNEO analog from Salem and uses it for all but a couple of headends to the northeast of Cleveland. Go figure. Whatever they are doing to the analog signal is making it look "crappy" on the analog tier. (WNEO analog off air on 45 looks good) Hopefully they will begin using the digital feed soon to downconvert to analog, as some other systems are doing. I am told that WNEO 45 analog is slated to be permanently shut down in November and they will be digital only, moving the digital to CH 45 and a top of the tower antenna. PBS plans to make their HD channel their primary channel in December, but it will be a mix of local SD/HD and PBS SD/HD just like the commercial networks.


Call TWC and complain about the crappy analog signal... I bet the CSR will blame the station.


----------



## Tim Lones

Here in SW Canton (Time Warner) I've been getting a number of school/community access channels on my QAM tuner..


87-14 North Canton City Schools (With Canton City content but with other programming specific to North Canton)


94-27 Canton City Schools

94-29 Lake Local

94-31 City Of New Franklin (Summit County)

94-32 City of Green (Summit County)

94-33 GlenOak Local Schools


Also WTOV-9 Steubenville seems to be gone, as well as most of the cable channels..I ony get Discovery and Familyland at the moment along with the Local channels in HD..


Another thing..It seems you can do a rescan of the qam channels several times a day and get a different number each time..


----------



## Smarty-pants

Tim, you don't get 78-1 through 78-4? Try those for PBS and WBNX-HD.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14352364
> 
> 
> Tim, you don't get 78-1 through 78-4? Try those for PBS and WBNX-HD.



Smarty-Pants..


I get those most of the time..With the way Qam works, just today I scanned and lost them..then the next time they were there..New technology is winderful isnt it?..LOL


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ya know, I think it's just because they are working on the system. Trying to get everything set and aligned where they want it. I have the feeling it won't get much better for a while. They have a lot of work to do to catch up with satellite providers, and as we already know, TW will be taking their sweet ole time getting it done. I would say they should be moving WBNX-HD down to 55-1 soon. We shall see...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14352267
> 
> 
> Also WTOV-9 Steubenville seems to be gone, as well as most of the cable channels..I ony get Discovery and Familyland at the moment along with the Local channels in HD..



I'm surprised WTOV was available to you at all. I know the former Adelphia folks in Dover/New Philly get it, but I'm pretty sure 9/Steubenville hasn't been on Canton's TWC system in ages.


We used to get it on Warner Cable up here in Akron back a LONG time ago!


----------



## Inundated

While looking through the PDF lineups at TWCGuide.com , I notice they appear to have removed the old pre-realignment lineups.


Is there anyone out there at this point, who didn't get the digital cable lineup change yet?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14354183
> 
> 
> While looking through the PDF lineups at TWCGuide.com , I notice they appear to have removed the old pre-realignment lineups.
> 
> 
> Is there anyone out there at this point, who didn't get the digital cable lineup change yet?



What new digital cable lineup? Is there going to be a change?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14354213
> 
> 
> What new digital cable lineup? Is there going to be a change?



You're funny, hookbill.


----------



## ErieMarty

and will Time Warner EVER add the NFL network to its service ?


Plus I saw where ML Baseball is starting their own Network as of 01/01/09..I wonder if Time Warner will say No to them like they have to the NFL Network and the Big Ten Network.


wish someone from Time Warner would post on here to give us some kind of Update..even if its BS..lol..


----------



## nickdawg

My guess is Time Warner will want to charge some absurd extra fee for the MLB network and there will be the same disagreement. Hell will freeze over before NE Ohio gets Big Ten and NFL on cable.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14354142
> 
> 
> I'm surprised WTOV was available to you at all. I know the former Adelphia folks in Dover/New Philly get it, but I'm pretty sure 9/Steubenville hasn't been on Canton's TWC system in ages.
> 
> 
> We used to get it on Warner Cable up here in Akron back a LONG time ago!



When I was still on Dish, I had a wire left over from a previous TWC install in My wife's and my bedroom. When I purchased our JVC HDTV last year we put it in that bedroom..Just for kicks, I hooked the wire up..Was when I discovered Qam..I was getting WTOV-9, WYFX 17 Youngstown and even WTVG-13 Toledo on the Qam Tuner. Since I signed up for TWC's digital package last week, TOV has been gone..WTVG and WYFX were long gone..I remember The old WSTV being on Warner Cable as far back as the 60's (Stark Cable)..With WTRF Wheeling and the Youngstown Channels..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14355244
> 
> 
> My guess is Time Warner will want to charge some absurd extra fee for the MLB network and there will be the same disagreement. Hell will freeze over before NE Ohio gets Big Ten and NFL on cable.



Agreed. They want to put it all in their "Sports Tier" package and MLB adding their own network will further complicated the issue.


Here's how I see it. I have in the past purchased MLB Extra Innings the last two years. I stopped this year because I simply don't have time for watching the games since I'm working full time.


So if I was still purchasing MLB EI and TW does what I suspect they will do I wouldn't buy it UNLESS it was cheaper the purchasing MLB EI on it's own. Which isn't exactly cheap.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Speaking of Big 10 Network, does anybody know if the deal recently reached with Comcast in which the network basically backed off of their staunch demands will have any effect on Armstrong's ability to negotiate? TV21Chief intimated that Comcast was Armstrong's advertising agent/broker, so I wonder if perhaps there's a chance we might be seeing something soon down here?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14355961
> 
> 
> Since I signed up for TWC's digital package last week, TOV has been gone..



I don't think the two events are related. I'm just wondering how Canton had it for so long on QAM! I know the Erie PA folks, some of them (I think the legacy TWC people) get Cleveland locals on QAM.


There must be some explanation for this, as far as how TWC feeds its headends or something.


Here in Former Adelphia Land, I've never seen out of market locals, from Steubenville/Wheeling or anywhere else, on QAM.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I've noticed this phenomena myself. Somehow TWC is feeding an amalgamation of channel lineups to all it's headends in this general 'region' and just separates it by area at the set-top probably to save on having to put individual channel encoders in each individual headend.


Back when I had passport and had manual tuning capability on it, I found we had a number of channels available here in the youngstown-ish area (legacy TWC) like WGN and WBNX which were otherwise completely missing off the guide and even still are now. Used to sit and watch the countless reruns of AFV on WGN this way. >>


I'm not sure if this is the case and these channels are still around. Mystro has unfortunately lost this capability, and I don't know if those channels were encrypted or not so checking on anything but a set-top would be questionable (there are a buttload of blank/encrypted QAMs that show up on my plasma, the few that are unencrypted seem to just be locals, Discovery ch (SD), A&E, a shopping channel or two, a couple of the religious channels, and all the PPV/OD/Sports package preview channels).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14352411
> 
> 
> Smarty-Pants..
> 
> 
> I get those most of the time..With the way Qam works, just today I scanned and lost them..then the next time they were there..New technology is winderful isnt it?..LOL



Tim, if you're intermittently losing digital channels, you might have a signal level issue. Go into your set's diagnostics and look at the signal level while you're tuned to one of the QAMs. SCTE specs call for +15 to -15dbmv for SD qams, and +15 to -12dbmv (note the tighter minimum level) for HD qams. You can lose channels if the signal level is too low, but you can also lose them if the signal is too hot due to the set's front end overloading from a hot signal.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14361504
> 
> 
> I know the Erie PA folks, some of them (I think the legacy TWC people) get Cleveland locals on QAM.



Yes, my in-laws who now live in the city get all the HD-QAM locals out of Cleveland (except for WBNX). When they first got their HD set last Fall, the only local station that was broadcasting anything in HD was PBS WQLN-54. Just before Christmas, Fox-66 started started programming in HD. Just a month ago or so, NBC WICU-12 showed up in HD on their QAM as well. Still no word as to when ABC WJET-24 or CBS WSEE-35 will start broadcasting in HD. Last Fall, the GM of WSEE was quoted as saying they would never go to HD, just SD-digital. I suspect CBS has/will straighten him out, however!


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/14343362
> 
> 
> Lighting Guy - I experienced the same thing, lost TBS 88-3, TNT 88-11, STO 106-1, etc. Did a re-scan but did not find them anywhere else. Let me konw if you have any luck.



I did finally do a re-scan. Sad news, no "extra channels" unencrypted anymore. I guess the potentially good news for those of you who pay for more than lifeline, is they reorganized the QAM channels quite a bit, making things make more sense







. Hopefully its just another step in the direction of uniformity, then SDV.


----------



## nickdawg

Hopefully it's a step in the direction of making EVERYONE get a box!!


----------



## HD MM

Speaking of Time Warner.....


Has anyone else had problems with TWC Cable Internet lately?


The last few days for the first time in a long while, I've had issues getting a connection. The signal goes in and out for some reason. And yesterday, for time blocks at a time, I can't get a signal at all. I've done all the usual checks. (Ie: hard reset and reboot of modem, router and computer).


Any ideas? I have a feeling the issue is on TW's end....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/14371866
> 
> 
> Speaking of Time Warner.....
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had problems with TWC Cable Internet lately?
> 
> 
> The last few days for the first time in a long while, I've had issues getting a connection. The signal goes in and out for some reason. And yesterday, for time blocks at a time, I can't get a signal at all. I've done all the usual checks. (Ie: hard reset and reboot of modem, router and computer).
> 
> 
> Any ideas? I have a feeling the issue is on TW's end....



No problems here. Sounds like you may have a problem on your end.


They are pretty good at diagnosing problems on their end with your internet. Call customer service and hit the internet button. They found an issue with mine when I lost connection and even though they brought it back up they still saw another problem so they did a truck roll.


Their internet service is light years above their cable tv service.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14372202
> 
> 
> No problems here. Sounds like you may have a problem on your end.
> 
> 
> They are pretty good at diagnosing problems on their end with your internet. Call customer service and hit the internet button. They found an issue with mine when I lost connection and even though they brought it back up they still saw another problem so they did a truck roll.
> 
> 
> Their internet service is light years above their cable tv service.



Will do. Thanks Hook.


----------



## hookbill

Totally off topic but I have no where else to post this. On behalf of all the fans of the Los Angeles Dodgers, I would like to thank the Cleveland Indians for trading Casey Blake to us.


Good luck with the rest of your season!










From the LA Times, heres what you got:


Meloan, 24, was moved from the bullpen to the rotation this spring. He was 5-10 with a 4.97 earned-run average in 21 games for triple-A Las Vegas. A September call-up last season, he posted an *11.05 ERA in five games for the Dodgers.*


Santana is by far the more intriguing prospect. The 22-year-old was hitting .323 with 14 home runs for Class-A Inland Empire and his 96 runs batted in were the most in the California League. *Santana hit only .223 for Great Lakes, a low Class-A team, last season.*


Has Sharpiro been tested for drugs lately?


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ths just came to my inbox 5 seconds ago...

*Indians Acquire CA Carlos Santana & RHP Jon Meloan*


The Indians picked up promising catcher prospect Carlos Santana and Triple-A pitcher Jon Meloan from the Dodgers on Saturday in exchange for veteran third baseman Casey Blake. Santana, 22, is a slugging switch-hitting catching prospect who currently has 14 homers, 96 RBI and a .323 average at Class A Inland Empire. Meloan, 24, pitched briefly for the Dodgers last year in a September call-up. He is 5-10 with a 4.97 ERA at Triple-A Las Vegas. He was ranked as the organization’s No. 8 prospect by Baseball America entering this season.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I have to admit, I have NOT been following the Tribe too closely this season. I have been very busy with other things (jobs, wife, 1yr old, 3yr old







). So I don't know too much about what is going on these days. I think it's safe to say that this season is basically a "wash", so who cares







.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=cle


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14373435
> 
> 
> I have to admit, I have NOT been following the Tribe too closely this season. I have been very busy with other things (jobs, wife, 1yr old, 3yr old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). So I don't know too much about what is going on these days. I think it's safe to say that this season is basically a "wash", so who cares
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/new...=.jsp&c_id=cle



Did you not see my post above yours? The real stats for those guys last year are pretty bad.


Once again, thank you Cleveland!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14373810
> 
> 
> Did you not see my post above yours? The real stats for those guys last year are pretty bad.
> 
> 
> Once again, thank you Cleveland!



Umm ya, I saw it. Just thought maybe you wanted more info. Something that happens all the time in this game though, is that stats tend to change from place to place. Someone may not do as well playing with one team compared to another. They are ALL talented players, and emotion plays a big factor in all of that. Just to keep it real, what happens if Casey breaks his wrist. Then his stats will be zero







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14373831
> 
> 
> Umm ya, I saw it. Just thought maybe you wanted more info. Something that happens all the time in this game though, is that stats tend to change from place to place. Someone may not do as well playing with one team compared to another. They are ALL talented players, and emotion plays a big factor in all of that. Just to keep it real, what happens if Casey breaks his wrist. Then his stats will be zero
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Heck, God forbid but the whole team may die in a plane crash for all we know.


And 11.05 era in 5 games in the majors to me is very telling. It's telling me that he doesn't belong in the majors.










Anyway if either of these guys do become stars chances are the Tribe will trade them.


Maybe Manny Rameriz will wave his no trade contract and come back to the Tribe. He seems to be suffering from a mysterious knee injury which an MRI can't seem to find.










Anyway to get back on topic, I'm getting irritated by the fact they keep interrupting the game with the thunderstorm warning in someplace called Trumbell and Mahoney Counties, which I believe are located either in Canada or Lake Erie. I live in Geauga County so kindly quit interrupting a pretty good game between the Red Sox and Yankees.


----------



## jtscherne

So the Dodgers give up two prospects to rent a so-so player for two months, a player that the Indians weren't going to re-sign anyway.


Sounds like the Indians got the better of the deal and the Indians weren't in the race anyway. I think it's the Dodgers GM who has been smoking something.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14373335
> 
> 
> Totally off topic but I have no where else to post this. On behalf of all the fans of the Los Angeles Dodgers, I would like to thank the Cleveland Indians for trading Casey Blake to us.
> 
> 
> Good luck with the rest of your season!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the LA Times, heres what you got:
> 
> 
> Meloan, 24, was moved from the bullpen to the rotation this spring. He was 5-10 with a 4.97 earned-run average in 21 games for triple-A Las Vegas. A September call-up last season, he posted an *11.05 ERA in five games for the Dodgers.*
> 
> 
> Santana is by far the more intriguing prospect. The 22-year-old was hitting .323 with 14 home runs for Class-A Inland Empire and his 96 runs batted in were the most in the California League. *Santana hit only .223 for Great Lakes, a low Class-A team, last season.*
> 
> 
> Has Sharpiro been tested for drugs lately?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14377776
> 
> 
> So the Dodgers give up two prospects to rent a so-so player for two months, a player that the Indians weren't going to re-sign anyway.
> 
> 
> Sounds like the Indians got the better of the deal and the Indians weren't in the race anyway. I think it's the Dodgers GM who has been smoking something.



Only time will tell. Face it that one pitcher got clobbered in the majors and the other prosepect seems like he has possibilities. So the Indians will bring him up to speed, make him a star, and trade him.


The problem for the Tribe is that they just can't afford to keep their really good players once they are eligable for free agency. They have to somehow win a World Series to be able to do that and they had that chance last year.


Will Pronk ever be what he was two years ago? Man that guy was hitting grand slams at the rate of aound one a month. Last year even though the Tribe got to be where they want to be he still was just a shadow of his former self.


And Sizemore. When is he up for free agency?


This team is rebuilding, I don't care what they say.


And as far as the Dodgers go, these are not the Dodgers I knew when I left L.A. Ever since the O'Mallys sold the team they stopped playing Dodger baseball. You want to know who plays Dodger baseball? The Angels, with a staff of ex Dodgers coaches and manager.


Under the O'Mallys the Dodgers won more World Series and played in more World Series then any other team from 1958 to 1990. Two managers in 40 years!


So my comment about "Thank you Cleveland" really was more just trying to stir the pot, and I succeded a bit.







But did the Dodgers really get a good trade? That I really don't know.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Is LA even in "contention"? If so, then it is more likely they're willing to give, in order to get one player that can help propell them to the post season. We shall see...







.


I was flipping through the channels last night to find something for the kids to watch before bed. Saw Pater Pan was on ABC in HD. That was some pretty damn good PQ if I say so myself. I don't know about the SQ. I only have a tv and dvd player in my living which is where we watched it.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14377965
> 
> 
> Under the O'Mallys the Dodgers won more World Series and played in more World Series then any other team from 1958 to 1990.




Wrong on both accounts! The Dodgers won 5 world series between 1958 and 1990. The New York Yankees also won 5 world series between the same years.


And, the Yankees appeared in 10 world series. The Dodgers only appeared in 9.


You need to check your facts before you post them as truth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/14378668
> 
> 
> Wrong on both accounts! The Dodgers won 5 world series between 1958 and 1990. The New York Yankees also won 5 world series between the same years.
> 
> 
> And, the Yankees appeared in 10 world series. The Dodgers only appeared in 9
> 
> 
> You need to check your facts before you post them as truth.



I did check my facts. I made two mistakes. First mistake was when I did the original check I based it on from 1959 to 1990. Yankees: 1961, 1962,

1977, 1978 Championships. Appearances 1960, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 76,77,78,81.



Los Angeles Dodgers: 1959, 1963, 1965, 1981, 1988. That gives them one more championship.


Appearances: 1959, 63, 65, 66, 74, 76, 77, 81, 88.


I'm still wrong however because I did miss the 1976 appearance of the Yankees against the Reds.


Still based on my original statement I was wrong about World Series Championships as well, and also on appearances.


I think when I originally researched this I think I saw the Oakland A's in 1976.


Anyway, you are right I'm wrong.


But that's still a pretty darn good run.










I tried to get out of it to see if I could go further back to the Brooklyn Dodgers but the fact is that even though they beat the Yankees in 1955, they lost again in 1956 to the Yankees. So I can't go with that either.










And everyone knows that the Yankees are way ahead of anyone in all other areas.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14378010
> 
> 
> Is LA even in "contention"? If so, then it is more likely they're willing to give, in order to get one player that can help propell them to the post season. We shall see...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



They are 1 game behind Arizona. They are also 1 game under .500. But yes, they are in contention.


----------



## rlb

D* is adding more than 30 HD Channels the middle of next month which will increase total to over 130. Additionally, and most surprising; they will begin transmitting movies in 1080p before the end of this year. I presume the HR20 series DVR will handle the 1080p.
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/200...mid-august.php


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/14383216
> 
> 
> D* is adding more than 30 HD Channels the middle of next month which will increase total to over 130. Additionally, and most surprising; they will begin transmitting movies in 1080p before the end of this year. I presume the HR20 series DVR will handle the 1080p.
> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/200...mid-august.php



Back around 1990 I worked at Hughes Aircraft in El Segundo CA. They had just become part of General Motors and the real name was Hughes Aircraft, a Division of Hughes Electronics.


I remember going to meetings and hearing about this thing about mini satellite dishes and how they would be used in rural areas where people could not get cable. All sounded strange back then.


Now look at it today!


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/14383216
> 
> 
> D* is adding more than 30 HD Channels the middle of next month which will increase total to over 130. Additionally, and most surprising; they will begin transmitting movies in 1080p before the end of this year. I presume the HR20 series DVR will handle the 1080p.
> http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/200...mid-august.php



how can Time Warner keep up when they are so far behind Dish and direct..


will Cable ever come close to what you can get from these 2 companies..


----------



## Smarty-pants

yes, in about 2 years


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14386478
> 
> 
> yes, in about 2 years



what will cause Cable to catch up with Dish/Direct in content and HD Programing...


plus why 2 years..


and not sooner


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14386589
> 
> 
> what will cause Cable to catch up with Dish/Direct in content and HD Programing...
> 
> 
> plus why 2 years..
> 
> 
> and not sooner



SDV: Switched Digital Video

They need to update their infrastructure.

2 years might be optimistic, but we can hope.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14386689
> 
> 
> SDV: Switched Digital Video
> 
> They need to update their infrastructure.
> 
> 2 years might be optimistic, but we can hope.



Would be nice if TW through some bones you way to make you not want to switch to dish/Direct..


yes free HD Channels..is nice..but when its only a hand full of channels..I would rather pay an extra 5 or $10 a month and get 20 or 30 more then what I am getting now..


Plus throw in no Big Ten network or NFL network and you can understand why people leave Cable to Dish/Direct..


its not like they are cheaper either...as there way of getting you to stay..


Its the phone and probably Internet Connection is whats keep many from switching..


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14386752
> 
> 
> Would be nice if TW through some bones you way to make you not want to switch to dish/Direct..
> 
> 
> yes free HD Channels..is nice..but when its only a hand full of channels..I would rather pay an extra 5 or $10 a month and get 20 or 30 more then what I am getting now..
> 
> 
> Plus throw in no Big Ten network or NFL network and you can understand why people leave Cable to Dish/Direct..
> 
> 
> its not like they are cheaper either...as there way of getting you to stay..
> 
> 
> Its the phone and probably Internet Connection is whats keep many from switching..



*shrug*

I don't have TWC.

I *barely* follow the Browns, and only if they are decent.

I have too many trees around my home to have a dish.

And, yes, two phone lines + cable TV + high speed internet is a nice package. Saves me WELL over $400 a year in phone alone.

But I do hear what you are saying.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14386769
> 
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> I don't have TWC.
> 
> I have too many trees around my home to have a dish.
> 
> But I do hear what you are saying.



you have ???


I was looking at that new Verizon TV package and thats looks impressive..wonder whats good and bad with it


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14386776
> 
> 
> you have ???
> 
> 
> I was looking at that new Verizon TV package and thats looks impressive..wonder whats good and bad with it



WOW Cable, competitor to TWC (old Adelphia system by me).

But all cable co's suck. WOW was the first to offer VOIP in my area that could handle a FAX over a VOIP modem, so I went with them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14386397
> 
> 
> how can Time Warner keep up when they are so far behind Dish and direct..
> 
> 
> will Cable ever come close to what you can get from these 2 companies..



I'm not ever going to defend cable. But not everyone can have satellite television. Just like not everyone can have cable.


Having said that you have to look at the big picture. Just how many of these HD cable channels will you really watch? For me throw in USA and FX and I'm done.


The vast majority of recording I do is network broadcasting during prime time. I'm currently recording some Showtime stuff but I have like seasons of shows I've downloaded before I even get to them.


So you can say you have 130 HD channels, but that doesn't mean crap to me if I don't watch them. I'm seriously thinking of dropping my "Premier" Package of HD channels as it is now because I never watch anything on HDnet, HDnet Movies, Mojo, or Discovery.


So I'm happy for D* people, really. But I guarantee that I would not need that many HD channels.


And like everyone else said, once SDV gets here, and I think it will be less the two years they will have many more channels on cable.


But I only want two.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14387238
> 
> 
> I'm not ever going to defend cable. But not everyone can have satellite television. Just like not everyone can have cable.
> 
> 
> Having said that you have to look at the big picture. Just how many of these HD cable channels will you really watch? For me throw in USA and FX and I'm done.
> 
> 
> The vast majority of recording I do is network broadcasting during prime time. I'm currently recording some Showtime stuff but I have like seasons of shows I've downloaded before I even get to them.
> 
> 
> So you can say you have 130 HD channels, but that doesn't mean crap to me if I don't watch them. I'm seriously thinking of dropping my "Premier" Package of HD channels as it is now because I never watch anything on HDnet, HDnet Movies, Mojo, or Discovery.
> 
> 
> So I'm happy for D* people, really. But I guarantee that I would not need that many HD channels.
> 
> 
> And like everyone else said, once SDV gets here, and I think it will be less the two years they will have many more channels on cable.
> 
> 
> But I only want two.



you are right..how many channels do you really watch...


Give me the ESPN's/STO/Fox ohio/Locals and a few others and thats about it..but I guess its also about having the option if someone else in your family wants to watch something in HD on a channels that doesn't interest you they are out there for them to do it..


But you are right..even with all the channels we have on Cable or even from the Dish..how many non local channels do you really watch...


you got me there..


EXCELLENT POINT


----------



## Tim Lones

I rigged up the RCA DTT900 with a 12 year old TV I have..Here's the setup:


I have an RCA Tru-Flat TV with Cable sittng on top of the older TV..With a Terk amplified Antenna On top of the setup..I am getting many of the Pittsburgh/Johnstown stations tonight..I am watching WWCP-Fox 8 Johnstown as I am typing this..with an extremely good signal..as good as local WDLI at the moment..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14386689
> 
> 
> SDV: Switched Digital Video
> 
> They need to update their infrastructure.
> 
> 2 years might be optimistic, but we can hope.



2 years? I'm willing to bet it will be sooner than that. I've found the SDV test channels. I noticed they have been removed from the guide(wink wink







). But they are there.


And Channel 15, the Akron Public Schools channel is now digital. That means there are no more analog channels for customers with cable boxes.


I get the feeling TW may be going all-digital sooner than we think.


----------



## jtscherne

You can say "How many channels do you really watch...", but I bet that it's tough to come up with a single list. Hook talks about how he watches mostly network programming, you mentioned sports, but there are others who list would probably not include those. I watch very little network programming, and while I want sports, I also like History HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, and Food HD (Don't hate me, hook!).


So you have to offer a large quantity of HD to make as many people happy as possible. Of course, the true answer is ala carte, but we won't ever see that. The cable and satellite companies would fight forever about that!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14388136
> 
> 
> you are right..how many channels do you really watch...
> 
> 
> Give me the ESPN's/STO/Fox ohio/Locals and a few others and thats about it..but I guess its also about having the option if someone else in your family wants to watch something in HD on a channels that doesn't interest you they are out there for them to do it..
> 
> 
> But you are right..even with all the channels we have on Cable or even from the Dish..how many non local channels do you really watch...
> 
> 
> you got me there..
> 
> 
> EXCELLENT POINT


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14388783
> 
> 
> 2 years? I'm willing to bet it will be sooner than that. I've found the SDV test channels. I noticed they have been removed from the guide(wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). But they are there.......



Well let's hope it's much sooner. I'm just playing off of Smart-pants' comment of 2 years. But keep in mind: it's Ohio and it's Cleveland to boot!







Cleveland being one of the last metro areas in the country to even get cable.


I've been "hearing" the Ohio Turnpike is getting E-Z Pass for the last 5 years. Last I read they are "shooting" for 2010. Again, I sure hope so, the sooner the better. But it sounds more like a Space Odyssey than reality to me.










I'll believe it when I see it.


Hey, it's Cleveland, you get used to disappointment or you go mad!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14389841
> 
> 
> You can say "How many channels do you really watch...", but I bet that it's tough to come up with a single list. Hook talks about how he watches mostly network programming, you mentioned sports, but there are others who list would probably not include those. I watch very little network programming, and while I want sports, I also like History HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, and Food HD (Don't hate me, hook!).
> 
> 
> So you have to offer a large quantity of HD to make as many people happy as possible. Of course, the true answer is ala carte, but we won't ever see that. The cable and satellite companies would fight forever about that!



Exactly! It's not about "need", it's about choice. The more choices the better. Based on need only, we don't require any TV. As an upright walking two legged creature we've survived for 10,000+ years without TV. Many would argue we'd all be better off without TV.


Well.....except for Speed Channel......that we need.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14389841
> 
> 
> You can say "How many channels do you really watch...", but I bet that it's tough to come up with a single list. Hook talks about how he watches mostly network programming, you mentioned sports, but there are others who list would probably not include those. I watch very little network programming, and while I want sports, I also like History HD, Discovery HD, National Geographic HD, and Food HD (Don't hate me, hook!).



I also like the History Channel in HD, and I was quite surprised at the quality of programming offered.


In the past the only time I watched History Channels was when they would do something about Hitler. No, I'm not a neo Nazi, don't even go there but I have a fascination with people who are really sick and commit autrocities on mankind. Serial killers, also get my interest.


Now I got everyone either running to the phone to dial 911 or sending PM's, "see, I knew hook was a real sicko!"










But all of this stuff usually was either old black and white, scratchy tape. Some still is but not all of it. I've found shows like "Monster Quest", "Gangland," and a few others very entertaining and educational. And they look good in HD.


I also will admit that I usually only watch these shows when I go to bed and almost always fall asleep before the are over.










Still, they are good shows.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14389841
> 
> 
> So you have to offer a large quantity of HD to make as many people happy as possible. Of course, the true answer is ala carte, but we won't ever see that. The cable and satellite companies would fight forever about that!



I'm not certain that's the case. I think cable companies are in favor of some type of channel line up that you could purchase, like a sports tier, but it wouldn't be much better then what we have now. I don't want to purchase every sport out there, I just want football and baseball. I could care less about big 10 network or for the matter the NFL Network. That's what they want so they could include those channels.


----------



## cerickson99

I live in East Akron (Ellet). I cannot get either TV to find it...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14388390
> 
> 
> I rigged up the RCA DTT900 with a 12 year old TV I have..Here's the setup:
> 
> 
> I have an RCA Tru-Flat TV with Cable sittng on top of the older TV..With a Terk amplified Antenna On top of the setup..I am getting many of the Pittsburgh/Johnstown stations tonight..I am watching WWCP-Fox 8 Johnstown as I am typing this..with an extremely good signal..as good as local WDLI at the moment..



I picked up WWCP-FOX 8 last year on my old 921. It wiped out WJW from my menu until I rescanned. I kept the 8-2 subchannel (which was listed as WATM which is the Altoona ABC affilliate) along with our FOX 8 for awhile just for fun.


Even though our FOX 8 and Johnstown's are on different rf channels, the virtural mapping was too much for the old 921 to handle.


BTW: What is the rf channel for WWCP-DT?


----------



## thorton22

Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/14393051
> 
> 
> Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?



I don't know how digital signals work but I know that with what I've seen myself with using a digital converter box some stations come in better then others at different times.


You smart OTA guys out there.....Is it possible that trees can cause problems getting digital signals when they have leaves? I notice for example and I know this is kind of an apples and oranges thing that my XM antenna can be just about anywhere and I can get a signal. Then when the leaves come out I have to put it in a different position. And in August it gets real touchy, which I don't have a clue as to why that is.


I know that right now with the rabbit ears I'm getting Fox 8 and WEWS good. That's it.


----------



## dj9

TWC NEO hasn't always been slow in introducing new services. The TWC Akron/Canton market was the first to get RoadRunner back in 1996. IIRC, it was also the second commercial two-way cable Internet deployment in the country.


I remember being sick for a week right as TWC was upgrading the network to fiber. That was back in 1995.


Of course, I lived in Marks Cablevision territory in 1996, and they didn't start offering internet service until shortly before TWC took over the franchise in 2002 (which was shortly after DSL became available.) That transition seemed quick, but then again, Cable One might not have offered digital video yet.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14389874
> 
> 
> I've been "hearing" the Ohio Turnpike is getting E-Z Pass for the last 5 years. Last I read they are "shooting" for 2010. Again, I sure hope so, the sooner the better. But it sounds more like a Space Odyssey than reality to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.



Off-topic, but from the Turnpike's website :



> Quote:
> Q. Is E-ZPass available on the Ohio Turnpike?
> 
> A. Currently, E-ZPass is not available on the Ohio Turnpike; however, the Commission awarded a contract (Project No. 64-08-01) for a new toll collection system, which will include the implementation of electronic toll collection technology. It is anticipated that E-ZPass will be available to Ohio Turnpike customers in the Fall of 2009.



You know, I'm just sick of the whole attitude around here. "It's Cleveland, we suck, we won't ever get anything", etc...it makes me want to say screw it and move.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/14393518
> 
> 
> TWC NEO hasn't always been slow in introducing new services. The TWC Akron/Canton market was the first to get RoadRunner back in 1996. IIRC, it was also the second commercial two-way cable Internet deployment in the country.
> 
> 
> I remember being sick for a week right as TWC was upgrading the network to fiber. That was back in 1995.
> 
> 
> Of course, I lived in Marks Cablevision territory in 1996, and they didn't start offering internet service until shortly before TWC took over the franchise in 2002 (which was shortly after DSL became available.) That transition seemed quick, but then again, Cable One might not have offered digital video yet.



Taking over one small company is much easier then what TW did in our area. Not only did they take over Adelphia, which had took over several small companies and never fully realigned them they also took over Comcast. And with all due respect to Cathode Kid I still have not seen any evidence of a SA 8300 SARA box converted to Navigator. In addition to that they still have all the Motorola boxes that belonged to Comcast. It's quite the job and to be perfectly fair they have done a good job on their lineup conversion, but they still have a great deal of obstacles before SDV will be introduced.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14393732
> 
> 
> You know, I'm just sick of the whole attitude around here. "It's Cleveland, we suck, we won't ever get anything", etc...it makes me want to say screw it and move.



And we are the only area to still have echeck.


Well, if it makes you feel better, L.A. had an 5.8 earthquake. Now I've been in larger, but that will definitely get your attention.










And given the choice of living in NE Ohio or L.A. I will take NE Ohio. Notice I didn't say Cleveland.


When people ask me where I live or work I say "between Akron and Cleveland" because it's embarrasing to say Cleveland.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14393732
> 
> 
> Off-topic, but from the Turnpike's website :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I'm just sick of the whole attitude around here. "It's Cleveland, we suck, we won't ever get anything", etc...it makes me want to say screw it and move.



As I said, I'll believe it when I see it!







Just like SDV, I'm sure it's coming, I just don't trust the stated completion dates till it actually happens.


Their rinky-dink Toll Ready Card (a simple pre-paid debit card) was implemented about two years after their original "projected" date. Instead of screwing around with a ridiculous debit card they could have & should have implemented E-Z Pass like many other states were doing at that time.


I live here by choice, crappy cable service and all. I could move to any other metro area in the country and bring my biz with me (and dramatically improve my income). I choose NE Ohio cuz I like it here. But I also like to get my digs in.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14390010
> 
> 
> I also like the History Channel in HD, and I was quite surprised at the quality of programming offered.
> 
> 
> In the past the only time I watched History Channels was when they would do something about Hitler. No, I'm not a neo Nazi, don't even go there but I have a fascination with people who are really sick and commit autrocities on mankind. Serial killers, also get my interest.
> 
> 
> Now I got everyone either running to the phone to dial 911 or sending PM's, "see, I knew hook was a real sicko!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But all of this stuff usually was either old black and white, scratchy tape. Some still is but not all of it. I've found shows like "Monster Quest", "Gangland," and a few others very entertaining and educational. And they look good in HD.
> 
> 
> I also will admit that I usually only watch these shows when I go to bed and almost always fall asleep before the are over.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still, they are good shows.



I like the History HD channel too, but I'm also disappointed. For such a serious channel with quality programming, I cannot believe they are so sloppy with the aspect ratio. One episode of Monster Quest was shown is stretched letterbox EVERY time it was on. It was the episode about giant rats that I wanted to see too.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14393799
> 
> 
> And we are the only area to still have echeck.
> 
> 
> Well, if it makes you feel better, L.A. had an 5.8 earthquake. Now I've been in larger, but that will definitely get your attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And given the choice of living in NE Ohio or L.A. I will take NE Ohio. Notice I didn't say Cleveland.
> 
> 
> When people ask me where I live or work I say "between Akron and Cleveland" because it's embarrasing to say Cleveland.



You could always move to Akron.

















Much better than Cleveland, plus the "original" Time Warner area.


Can anyone say S D V?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14394367
> 
> 
> You could always move to Akron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Much better than Cleveland, plus the "original" Time Warner area.
> 
> 
> Can anyone say S D V?



Nope, I'm not Toby. And I just got a letter from the bank telling me how the value of my home has dropped from what we paid for it.


Thanks again, GWB. After all didn't Ohio put you in the office? And name one single thing you did to say thanks!


And you still won't get SDV for at least another year and a half.


Oh and the episode of Rats? I deleted that one. Rats before bed, I don't think so.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/14393051
> 
> 
> Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?



It's not the station's power that increases & decreases, it's the atmospheric conditions that allow distant reception. You are lucky to get KDKA-DT since it's digital signal is on rf 25. It will be easier to get KDKA-DT once WVIZ-TV signs off rf 25 for good (they are staying digital on rf 26).


About the only "distant" station anybody can get with regularity is WKBN-DT. They have a winning combination of power & tower (HIGH in both cases) that allow their predicted coverage area to hit from Cleveland to Pittsburgh!


This is peak skip season. Enjoy it while it lasts, but never count on it for day to day reception. Check this site out to see when skip is high in the region:
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html 


BTW: "picture perfect days" do not mean skip is up, in fact sometimes the opposite may be true. OTOH "Ozone alert days" usually are accompanied by high skip!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14393757
> 
> 
> And with all due respect to Cathode Kid I still have not seen any evidence of a SA 8300 SARA box converted to Navigator.



Would it help if I said that I saw an SA 8300 running Navigator with my own two eyes?


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14392795
> 
> 
> I picked up WWCP-FOX 8 last year on my old 921. It wiped out WJW from my menu until I rescanned. I kept the 8-2 subchannel (which was listed as WATM which is the Altoona ABC affilliate) along with our FOX 8 for awhile just for fun.
> 
> 
> Even though our FOX 8 and Johnstown's are on different rf channels, the virtural mapping was too much for the old 921 to handle.
> 
> 
> BTW: What is the rf channel for WWCP-DT?



Not absolutely sure but I think it's channel 29.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14395506
> 
> 
> Would it help if I said that I saw an SA 8300 running Navigator with my own two eyes?



I don't doubt that you saw an SA 8300 running Navigator. The question is did it have SARA in in previously? That, I've not found one confirmed report other then you saying so.


No disrespect intended. But I want to see somebody else come in here with an SA 8300 with SARA and tell me they have been converted. Because over in the SA 8300 SARA thread, nobody can confirm that.


SDV will not require Navigator software. There are a whole heck of a lot of boxes out there with SARA. Inundated has an SA 8000 with SARA and he's not converted.


----------



## lutznct1

Hello everyone, I would like to install a UHF antenna pointed towards WEWS and WKYC digital signals (for post 2009 transition). The stations are 75-80 miles from where I'm at and can get the analog signals from those stations pretty good. Can anyone suggestion a good UHF antenna that would be good for that kind of distance?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/14393051
> 
> 
> Newbie question...I have been trying to get local Pittsburgh stations (especially KDKA-DT Channel 2) for a while. I gave up about a year ago and have not looked at the OTA stuff since. BTW, I live in Louisville, OH. Last night, however, I rescanned for channels on my OTA HD box and got KDKA along with other local Pittsburgh channels even though my antenna was pointed about 45 degrees away from Pittsburgh towards Youngstown. I was ecstatic! However, today, I have no signal on all those channels. Not a one comes in! It is a picture perfect day outside between here and the Burgh. What gives? Do stations increase and decrease their power during the day?



Physical Channel 2 is used by WKYC-DT until next February, so that would pretty much preclude seeing KDKA's analog signal around here, period.


----------



## MillForce2K

What software is on the 8300HD boxes in Twinsburg? I thought things were bad when they squirted our Passport boxes with Navigator in Dayton. Now I'm looking forward to Navigator.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MillForce2K* /forum/post/14399379
> 
> 
> What software is on the 8300HD boxes in Twinsburg? I thought things were bad when they squirted our Passport boxes with Navigator in Dayton. Now I'm looking forward to Navigator.



I'm pretty sure that is SARA, because I use to go to the Macedonia office and they were my point of service.


SARA really bites, doesn't it? There is a way to tell, you turn your unit off and then you press two buttons and the diagnostic screen pops up but it's been so long I've forgotten.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14395400
> 
> 
> It's not the station's power that increases & decreases, it's the atmospheric conditions that allow distant reception. You are lucky to get KDKA-DT since it's digital signal is on rf 25. It will be easier to get KDKA-DT once WVIZ-TV signs off rf 25 for good (they are staying digital on rf 26).
> 
> 
> About the only "distant" station anybody can get with regularity is WKBN-DT. They have a winning combination of power & tower (HIGH in both cases) that allow their predicted coverage area to hit from Cleveland to Pittsburgh!
> 
> 
> This is peak skip season. Enjoy it while it lasts, but never count on it for day to day reception. Check this site out to see when skip is high in the region:
> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html
> 
> 
> BTW: "picture perfect days" do not mean skip is up, in fact sometimes the opposite may be true. OTOH "Ozone alert days" usually are accompanied by high skip!



This is all absolutely correct. Using an excellent antenna on a 50' tower here in Canton, I can usually see low DT signals from several Pittsburgh and/or Johnstown stations but they stay below receivable levels unless there is tropospheric enhancement. During the summer months when this enhancement is common, I can enjoy some Pittsburgh/Johnstown DT reception almost daily, especially WPXI-DT. This kind of reception is extremely rare during the rest of the year, although snowy analog reception is usually possible any time. I do have regular reception of WTOV-DT, Steubenville but then they are closer to us than Pittsburgh or Johnstown. Reception of WTRF-DT, Wheeling WV may be possible here once they go to full power and begin transmitting on RF ch 7. Right now, both their analog and DT facilities are at reduced power levels. Besides good reception of WTOV-DT, I also get WOUC-DT, Cambridge with strong signals. Both of these should be receivable in the Louisville area with a decent outdoor antenna, referring to k2rj's earlier post. I can see KDKA analog ch 2 most of the time but with a lot of "snow", much of which is probably digital interference from WKYC-DT. After 2/09, WTOV-DT will be on RF ch 9 (moving from ch 57) which may improve their reception area.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I can see KDKA analog ch 2 most of the time but with a lot of "snow", much of which is probably digital interference from WKYC-DT.



Yep. That is exactly what analog reception looks like when a digital signal is also present. Here in the antenna farm those with cable have problems with cable ch2 unless all the cables are fastened extremely tight, even then that channel (which is WVPX on Cox cable) looks weaker than the rest.


----------



## Tim Lones

In dealing with digital signals, most know it's "all or nothing" depending on the angle of the antenna I usually get 17, 27, 45 and 67 on digital (with any corresponding (multi-channels)..Much of the time 21 and 49..and sometimes 55..For a time I was getting 5 and 8, but those are quite rare..I suspect when WVPX-23 goes digital, I should get it too.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MillForce2K* /forum/post/14399379
> 
> 
> What software is on the 8300HD boxes in Twinsburg? I thought things were bad when they squirted our Passport boxes with Navigator in Dayton. Now I'm looking forward to Navigator.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14400263
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is SARA, because I use to go to the Macedonia office and they were my point of service.
> 
> 
> SARA really bites, doesn't it? There is a way to tell, you turn your unit off and then you press two buttons and the diagnostic screen pops up but it's been so long I've forgotten.



For the record, SARA DOES NOT BITE!!! SARA is the Rolls Royce compared to the Kia that is known as Navigator.


I try thinking happy thoughts, but I had to share. Navigator is such a POS i made it reboot twice within a half hour, just by using the guide and the new "Advance Search Feature" (aka number B).


----------



## Vchat20

One thing that has always bugged me about navigator is this:


From what I can gather on a technical standpoint, it's the existing boxes with SARA or passport that required an extra software 'shim' or 'layer' on top of navigator itself to run on the hardware and newer HDC boxes were natively capable of running Navigator directly.


My aunt has an SD SA8300 which originally had passport on it and now has Navigator. I have an SA8240HDC which came stock with navigator on it.


At this point it seems that the SA8300 is running CIRCLES around the 8240 in terms of not only boot time (ugh. I used to not mind reboots with passport. It's PAINFUL with navigator now at least on the HDC) but also runtime speed and stability. Not only that, but the 8300 seems to have a few extra minor features like fade in/out of the different menus and such.


It may just be some other variables thrown in to make it this way, but I find it real odd that this is the way it is currently.


Though, at this point, I'm willing to live with some of the inconveniences that Navigator brings along for the ride in lieu of available alternatives (Fight with trying to get directv and HOPE we have line of sight at our place AND get a box for each room, or pay $300 for an S3 tivo and hope the cablecard system works). I would have been perfectly happy with Passport (some of the interactive channels like the card games channel and the on screen electronic bill payment are sorely missed), but the higher ups at TWC decided to move the set top software inhouse and that's the way it is.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14402301
> 
> 
> For the record, SARA DOES NOT BITE!!! SARA is the Rolls Royce compared to the Kia that is known as Navigator.
> 
> 
> I try thinking happy thoughts, but I had to share. Navigator is such a POS i made it reboot twice within a half hour, just by using the guide and the new "Advance Search Feature" (aka number B).



ROFLOL!!!!


nickdawg SARA is a pos, and if Navigator is worst then that just upgraded SARA from a Yugo to a KIA and now Naviagtor is the Yugo.


But you just keep thinking happy thoughts.










Edit: I also just got my updates for both of my TiVos. With this update it gives it the capability to use the digital adapter for SDV.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14396246
> 
> 
> I don't doubt that you saw an SA 8300 running Navigator. The question is did it have SARA in in previously?



I'm not sure why it matters, Hookbill. There are Navigator flavors for both the legacy 8300s as well as their newer OCAP cousins. It doesn't matter what firmware a box used to have; it's a clean slate when they push in new firmware. All of the older code is overwritten.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14403970
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why it matters, Hookbill. There are Navigator flavors for both the legacy 8300s as well as their newer OCAP cousins. It doesn't matter what firmware a box used to have; it's a clean slate when they push in new firmware. All of the older code is overwritten.



Then why hasn't anyone had it done? Not one single report.


Now I'm not a programmer, I only have a minimal understanding of software. I understand what you say to me. But I have a suspicion that there is something in the code of the SARA software that will cause a crash if you try to push Navigator software into it. That and the fact that the hardware for the SA 8300 is really mickey mouse, compared to more sophisticated DVR's.


Then again, TiVo is going to push it's software soon into Comcast boxes and Brighthouse and a few others. Now I don't know what Brighthouse uses but I wouldn't be surprised if it was not the SA 8300. Maybe SARA will be a problem for them.


All I'm saying is I want to see one person who is in this forum who lives in the old Adelphia area that had SARA and now has navigator. At least one. Geeze there are a heck of a lot of people with these boxes. I think Jim has one and he hasn't reported in. Inundated is still got the SA 8000 with SARA. And when I check the SA 8300 SARA thread there is no one there who has had it happen to them. None. Zippo. There's got to be a reason.


----------



## hookbill

Oh and FWIW the new TiVo update didn't solve the handshaking issue with DVI to HDMI. I can get around it but I'm kind of bummed about it.


They did come out however with allowing you to store your shows in folders, which they always had but now you can play or delete a folder instead of having to do it show by show.


And TiVo does have a trash bin so if you accidentally delete something, it's not gone forever. Does Navigator have that? I'm not saying that to be a smart #ss I'm just curious.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14404237
> 
> 
> Oh and FWIW the new TiVo update didn't solve the handshaking issue with DVI to HDMI. I can get around it but I'm kind of bummed about it.
> 
> 
> They did come out however with allowing you to store your shows in folders, which they always had but now you can play or delete a folder instead of having to do it show by show.
> 
> 
> And TiVo does have a trash bin so if you accidentally delete something, it's not gone forever. Does Navigator have that? I'm not saying that to be a smart #ss I'm just curious.



HDMI is tricky; there are all sorts of things that can go wrong with it that will result in a blank screen or the infamous "informative display" that tells you to use your analog ports instead. Not only does the copy protection compliance have to be in place, the numerous transactions that happen during the handshake have to happen within a very narrow slice of time. Sometimes these devices fail because of small errors in the timing of those phases of handshaking (display interrogation, key exchange, key validation, etc).


----------



## nickdawg

Can anyone even confirm that a SA8000 has Navigator now? I can't believe those things are still out there. Now that's a POS!! I used to have one and it choked on Passport. I cannot imagine it running Navigator.


----------



## Inundated

I've been away from my SA8000HD for a few days, but last I checked, it was still SARA.


----------



## Vchat20

I had an SA8000 before we got HD service and about a week before we switched it got bumped to navigator from passport. Both were actually pretty snappy on the hardware either way. Though there are times you could notice it was starving for ram.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14402300
> 
> 
> In dealing with digital signals, most know it's "all or nothing" depending on the angle of the antenna I usually get 17, 27, 45 and 67 on digital (with any corresponding (multi-channels)..Much of the time 21 and 49..and sometimes 55..For a time I was getting 5 and 8, but those are quite rare..I suspect when WVPX-23 goes digital, I should get it too.



You're speaking of reception with an indoor antenna, right? Outdoor antenna reception in Canton is generally more extensive than that.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14404237
> 
> 
> And TiVo does have a trash bin so if you accidentally delete something, it's not gone forever. Does Navigator have that? I'm not saying that to be a smart #ss I'm just curious.



Nope. But it does ask for confirmation before deleting. I prefer Tivo's method - I've often deleted something on the 8300, and decided a few minutes later I'd like to have it back... Off to the program guide I go...


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/14404959
> 
> 
> You're speaking of reception with an indoor antenna, right? Outdoor antenna reception in Canton is generally more extensive than that.




rluyster:


Yes. I am working with indoor antennas..fluctuating between a Terk HDTVa and a Philips MANT510..Really wish I could get something outside..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14404932
> 
> 
> I had an SA8000 before we got HD service and about a week before we switched it got bumped to navigator from passport. Both were actually pretty snappy on the hardware either way. Though there are times you could notice it was starving for ram.



I can't believe it. The 8000 boxes are about as bad as the old Pioneer boxes. I really wish Time Warner would just trash ALL the old BD-V1000 series boxes. They suck with Navigator. The ancient version of Passport(from around 1998) ran slow on these boxes. The navigator is full of bugs.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14402525
> 
> 
> One thing that has always bugged me about navigator is this:
> 
> 
> From what I can gather on a technical standpoint, it's the existing boxes with SARA or passport that required an extra software 'shim' or 'layer' on top of navigator itself to run on the hardware and newer HDC boxes were natively capable of running Navigator directly.
> 
> 
> My aunt has an SD SA8300 which originally had passport on it and now has Navigator. I have an SA8240HDC which came stock with navigator on it.
> 
> 
> At this point it seems that the SA8300 is running CIRCLES around the 8240 in terms of not only boot time (ugh. I used to not mind reboots with passport. It's PAINFUL with navigator now at least on the HDC) but also runtime speed and stability. Not only that, but the 8300 seems to have a few extra minor features like fade in/out of the different menus and such.
> 
> 
> It may just be some other variables thrown in to make it this way, but I find it real odd that this is the way it is currently.
> 
> 
> Though, at this point, I'm willing to live with some of the inconveniences that Navigator brings along for the ride in lieu of available alternatives (Fight with trying to get directv and HOPE we have line of sight at our place AND get a box for each room, or pay $300 for an S3 tivo and hope the cablecard system works). I would have been perfectly happy with Passport (some of the interactive channels like the card games channel and the on screen electronic bill payment are sorely missed), but the higher ups at TWC decided to move the set top software inhouse and that's the way it is.



Part of that is due to the fact that ALL HDC boxes have additional software to support OCAP and the multi stream cable card inside the box. I once had the pleasure







of using an OCAP box and it was the biggest piece of, well you know, ever. Took at least 5 minutes to boot b/c there was extra software that had to be loaded.


The funny thing is with OCAP-supporting devices and platforms like Navigator there are supposed to be more interactive features(like Startover, games and Interactive TV features) but it seems we've taken a few steps backwards from Passport. It was disappointing when they banished the card games channel after the lineup change.


Now, my required ONE NICE THING to say about navigator: At least the sidebars on SDTV channels are black, instead of grey. For such a superior operating system like Passport I'll never understand why the SD channel sidebars were grey. It really bugged me(especially on dark shows) to have BRIGHT bars on the sides. But nowhere near as much as Navigator bugs me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14405164
> 
> 
> Now, my required ONE NICE THING to say about navigator: At least the sidebars on SDTV channels are black, instead of grey. For such a superior operating system like Passport I'll never understand why the SD channel sidebars were grey. It really bugged me(especially on dark shows) to have BRIGHT bars on the sides. But nowhere near as much as Navigator bugs me.



IIRC on my SA 8300 SARA I had the option in the settings menu to select the color of the side bars.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14405086
> 
> 
> rluyster:
> 
> Yes. I am working with indoor antennas..fluctuating between a Terk HDTVa and a Philips MANT510..Really wish I could get something outside..



Using the classic 4 bowtie UHF with preamp inside shooting thru a northern brick wall in North Canton and get all the Cleveland UHFs solid... sometimes 21,27 and 44 on a north pointing antenna... then a small 2 bowtie UHF with preamp shooting east which gives 21,27 sometimes 33 and 45... don't know if I'll continue getting Fox8 when they move back to VHF...

Ed...


----------



## jtscherne

Any D* subscribers around? I'm not getting 657-1 (STO-HD) for today's Indians game right now. It was coming in on the Extra Innings channel for about 10 minutes, but now it's gone from there too. I called tech support, but all they wanted me to do was reset the box.


They did some re-organizing today and I'm wondering if they are having some issues...


----------



## thorton22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14395400
> 
> 
> You are lucky to get KDKA-DT since it's digital signal is on rf 25. It will be easier to get KDKA-DT once WVIZ-TV signs off rf 25 for good (they are staying digital on rf 26)



1) My digital receiver locked in KDKA-DT as channel 2. Do they broadcast digitally on channel 2 and channel 25 or am I totally missing something?


2) When is WVIZ-TV signing off?


3) Is rf channel synonymous with digital channel and frequency assignment? ...Physical channel synonymous with analog channel?


4) Does ananlog/digital have anything to do with UHF/VHF?


Thanks,

Confused newbie


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thorton22* /forum/post/14408267
> 
> 
> 1) My digital receiver locked in KDKA-DT as channel 2. Do they broadcast digitally on channel 2 and channel 25 or am I totally missing something?
> 
> 
> 2) When is WVIZ-TV signing off?
> 
> 
> 3) Is rf channel synonymous with digital channel and frequency assignment? ...Physical channel synonymous with analog channel?
> 
> 
> 4) Does ananlog/digital have anything to do with UHF/VHF?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Confused newbie



1.) KDKA is analog on ch 2 and digital on 25 (it's impossible to transmit both on the same frequency). What you are seeing on your digital receiver is the "virtural channel". You box tells you it's CH 2-1, but in reality it's on ch 25 (at least until the end of transition next Fuburary).


2.) I don't have an exact date for the WVIZ-TV sign-off (other than Feb. 17, 2009). It may happen earlier - one station in the Cleveland DMA already shut off their analog channel (WMFD in Mansfield was analog 68. It's still virtural ch 68 but the signal is on rf ch 12).


3.) A virtural channel could be on the same channel or a diferent channel. Virtural channels are used to "brand" a channel. We'll call ch 3 ch 3 for years after the transition, however they will actually move off ch 2 and take ove ch 17 when WDLI-TV signs off their analog ch 17. This may also affect WVIZ, since WVIZ and WKYC will share the same Parma tower (now WVIZ has their analog tower in North Royalton, this tower is owned by CBS, INC. and is the primary use is for radio station WNCX-FM).


4.) Not really. WJW ch 8 will put their digital signal back on ch 8 after the transition (they are currently digital on rf ch 31). WOIO ch 19 is digital on rf ch 10 and wants to stay there (they are nuts for doing this since CFPL-TV in London Ontario will still be analog for years after the U.S. transition ends).


What will change after the transition in regards to VHF/UHF is this: Channels 52 and above will no longer be used for television broadcasting. Channels 2-6 are still available but stations on those frequencies are fleeing in droves to higher rf channels. These "low band" VHF channels are more succeptable to interference and long-distance skip. I call ch 2 the "short wave" channel since reception of channels up to 1,000 miles away can happen (I logged Miami & Houston ch 2's from Euclid!). 3 & 4 may be just as bad, it's just that with a local ch3 on the air the long-distance signals get blocked the closer you are to the transmitters (and a real pain to those in the fringe areas). 5 & 6 suffer from static interference mostly. The best channels to be on are the "High band" VHF 7 - 13. This is why WOIO/Raycom wants to stay on ch 10. Unfortunatley they should have never been on 10 in the first place. Too close to Canada - the analog ch 10 was like a local station to many in Lake & Ashtabula Counties. CFPL does not have to "protect" WOIO-DT, however WOIO-DT has to protect CFPL (they were there first). the digital Ch 10 should have stayed in Columbus and not been used in Cleveland.


----------



## ErieMarty

someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..


any truth to that ??


Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..


Just curious


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14410698
> 
> 
> someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..
> 
> 
> any truth to that ??
> 
> 
> Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..
> 
> 
> Just curious



This has been discussed at length in various threads both on this forum and possible others. The general consensus is to try both ways (a: set the box to 'auto' or 'passthrough' to give the tv set the native resolution of each broadcast and let it do the conversion and b: set the box to 1080i and let the box do the conversion for each channel) and see which looks better to your eyes.


Though in all honesty, unless you have something like a tivo or maybe one of the higher end FiOS boxes, the tv is most likely going to do a better conversion job. I have an SA8240HDC running Mystro here and it does a real lousy job actually.


Again, it depends on your eyes. Try yourself and see what looks best.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14410698
> 
> 
> someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..
> 
> 
> any truth to that ??
> 
> 
> Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..
> 
> 
> Just curious



No that's a bunch of crap. You set it for what you like.


While it will convert the picture you will be stuck with everything with side bars. What you should set it up for is what works best for you.


When I had the SA 8300 the techs only knew how to set it up for 1080i. I went on line and found out how to do the set up. I suppose they are smarter then that now.


Anyway if you have a 720p HD TV and you set it for 1080i your set will just reconvert it to 720p.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14410738
> 
> 
> Anyway if you have a 720p HD TV and you set it for 1080i your set will just reconvert it to 720p.



More nitpicking than anything, but keep in mind that the image processor in the set may not follow the native resolution of the panel. One good example is the 2008 model Panny's. I have the 42" px80 myself and in the thread in this very same forum it's been determined that while the native panel resolution is only 1024x768p, the image processor scales/deinterlaces all signals up to 1080p, no exceptions, and then scales that back down to the native 1024x768 so in a case like this it'd be smart to feed it 1080 IF you decide to go the single res/settop conversion route even though the set is TECHNICALLY 720p (they do market it as 1080p, but that's besides the point).


But yes, what looks best to your eyes is what you should go with. Though if you feed the set a single resolution and let the box convert everything, you are at the mercy of the software on the settop and what image controls they give you. Some can stretch the picture and eliminate pillarboxing, others cant.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14410772
> 
> 
> More nitpicking than anything, but keep in mind that the image processor in the set may not follow the native resolution of the panel. One good example is the 2008 model Panny's. I have the 42" px80 myself and in the thread in this very same forum it's been determined that while the native panel resolution is only 1024x768p, the image processor scales/deinterlaces all signals up to 1080p, no exceptions, and then scales that back down to the native 1024x768 so in a case like this it'd be smart to feed it 1080 IF you decide to go the single res/settop conversion route even though the set is TECHNICALLY 720p (they do market it as 1080p, but that's besides the point).
> 
> 
> But yes, what looks best to your eyes is what you should go with. Though if you feed the set a single resolution and let the box convert everything, you are at the mercy of the software on the settop and what image controls they give you. Some can stretch the picture and eliminate pillarboxing, others cant.



If I had a set that had native progressive I would probably set ithe box for progressive.


When I had my Sony WEGA if I set the box to 1080i, which is what was native to the Sony I was stuck with side bars. TiVo has a few different type of settings. It offers Native, which sounds similar to the Navigator. It allows the TV to deal with whatever signal comes in. It has 1080i and 720p hybrid which depending on what you pick will convert the HD signal to your setting and any 480i to 480p. Then it has 1080i, 720p, 480i, and 480p fixed. Why anyone would pick 480i or 480p as a fixed signal, I don't know.


I set both of my tv's to 720p hybrid. I could leave the LG at Native but it takes too long to convert the signals. And since I use a DVI to HDMI converter on my little 19" Sanyo I have to use 720p because it won't receive 480i.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14410698
> 
> 
> someone told me I should set the box for ONLY 1080i output as it will give you the best Standard picture and HD picture..
> 
> 
> any truth to that ??
> 
> 
> Right now I have it set on Auto so its based on the feed from the Station..Standards at 480i and HD at 720p or 1080i depending on what the station output is..
> 
> 
> Just curious



I'd leave it on 1080i. It actually looks better that way. I've tried all the available output formats and 480p/480i looked like garbage. Even the guide and channel banner looked worse on the lower resolution. The picture looked worse as well. I have a 1080i TV and have fond that all channels look better on 1080i output. Plus, 480i results in funny looking sidebars. They seem more skinny than HD channels and 720/1080 output.


Another thing I've noticed is that TV is very right-leaning(and I'm not talking about politics). The sidebars on SDTV channels look asymmetrical. The left sidebar is wider than the right. Watching the News Hour on WNEO shown in letterbox, I tried using the resize setting to make the 16x9 LB fit the 16x9 full screen and when 4:3 content was shown, the pattern bars from the show were uneven. Just seems odd that there's extra space to the left.


The only WRONG move you can make is setting 4:3 channels to STRETCH. Stretchovision looks like crap.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14411731
> 
> 
> I'd leave it on 1080i. It actually looks better that way. I've tried all the available output formats and 480p/480i looked like garbage. Even the guide and channel banner looked worse on the lower resolution. The picture looked worse as well. I have a 1080i TV and have fond that all channels look better on 1080i output. Plus, 480i results in funny looking sidebars. They seem more skinny than HD channels and 720/1080 output.
> 
> 
> Another thing I've noticed is that TV is very right-leaning(and I'm not talking about politics). The sidebars on SDTV channels look asymmetrical. The left sidebar is wider than the right. Watching the News Hour on WNEO shown in letterbox, I tried using the resize setting to make the 16x9 LB fit the 16x9 full screen and when 4:3 content was shown, the pattern bars from the show were uneven. Just seems odd that there's extra space to the left.
> 
> 
> The only WRONG move you can make is setting 4:3 channels to STRETCH. Stretchovision looks like crap.



I will have to try that tomorrow..I have my box set at Full screen. Not sure what the best setting is .


Would be nice if you could set the Standard channels at 1080i but let the few HD ones we get from TW to be Auto depending on the feed.


I don't use any side bars when Watching Standard channels...maybe thats why I am not pleased with the Standard picture I get..guess my feeling..if I paid for a 50" TV...I want to enjoy the whole screen


thanks again Nick and have a good weekend


marty


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14411807
> 
> 
> .......I don't use any side bars when Watching Standard channels...maybe thats why I am not pleased with the Standard picture I get..guess my feeling..if I paid for a 50" TV...I want to enjoy the whole screen..............
> 
> 
> marty



Me either with sidebars. Particularly with plasmas as regular side bar use can be a big problem down the road with premature or uneven screen wear.


Unfortunately inaccurate "full screen" is common in HDTV's. Using full screen my NEC is very accurate but my Panny is not nearly as accurate and is noticeably different (unnaturally stretched).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14411807
> 
> 
> I will have to try that tomorrow..I have my box set at Full screen. Not sure what the best setting is .



The best setting is what looks and works best for you.


I almost hate to ask this but nickdawg, when you put it on the native mode (allow the tv to decide) how long does it take before the resolutions change like going form 480i to 1080i?


Anyone may feel free to reply. My TiVo S3 is very slow with the handshaking, I'd say there is a good 1 to two second wait, and yes I know that isn't long but it seems long. When I have it on 720p Hybrid it's a bit quicker. If I put it on 720p fixed there is no delay but then there is the side bars.


----------



## frank10

until recently, a good number of stations were carried via unencrypted qam. now, they are being scrambled. local channels are still available unscrambled.


now scrambled stations that weren't previously include

TBS

TNT

STO

FSNOH

HDNET

DHT


I'm hoping it's temporary, but I doubt it.


----------



## CPanther95

Threads merged.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14405113
> 
> 
> I can't believe it. The 8000 boxes are about as bad as the old Pioneer boxes. I really wish Time Warner would just trash ALL the old BD-V1000 series boxes. They suck with Navigator. The ancient version of Passport(from around 1998) ran slow on these boxes. The navigator is full of bugs.



Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree there. I remember owning one YEARS back on my bedroom tv when it was just running barebones passport, not even the 'echo' edition. Even then it felt like I had an old 386 hooked up to my tv trying to churn along a 32 bit gui. I can hardly bare to imagine how Navigator would handle on those things.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14405164
> 
> 
> Part of that is due to the fact that ALL HDC boxes have additional software to support OCAP and the multi stream cable card inside the box. I once had the pleasure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of using an OCAP box and it was the biggest piece of, well you know, ever. Took at least 5 minutes to boot b/c there was extra software that had to be loaded.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is with OCAP-supporting devices and platforms like Navigator there are supposed to be more interactive features(like Startover, games and Interactive TV features) but it seems we've taken a few steps backwards from Passport. It was disappointing when they banished the card games channel after the lineup change.
> 
> 
> Now, my required ONE NICE THING to say about navigator: At least the sidebars on SDTV channels are black, instead of grey. For such a superior operating system like Passport I'll never understand why the SD channel sidebars were grey. It really bugged me(especially on dark shows) to have BRIGHT bars on the sides. But nowhere near as much as Navigator bugs me.



It's funny. You'd think the native ocap boxes would run much better than their hack-requiring brethren.


But yeah. It's definitely a step backwards all things considered. When the original handout about Navigator came floating around in the mail, it stated something about having a 'larger games selection' and an 'ebay channel' on top of being told by a local tech that the on screen payment application was going to return after navigator settled in. All of this was slated for Q3/Q4 2008 according to what I recall. I'm still waiting for a sign of ANY upgrades.


At this rate I am highly tempted to get rid of TWC for tv service on our living room plasma and go with DirecTV for that and leave the other 2 analog sets on cable with phone and HSI still remaining with Time Warner. I've been willing to give them quite a bit of leeway so far, but little things keep popping up here and there where it's like they couldn't give two ****s about their paying customers. HSI and digital phone is GREAT here. But tv service is lackluster between of Navigator's problems and the anemic HD selection.


Only thing that is holding me back from making the switch is the hatred for any kind of contracts which seems you are forced into with D*. Last time we did anything with contracts was with Embarq here while they were still sprint. Decided 6 months in to a 1yr contract they wanted to randomly remove our dsl service and then foot us with both the early cancellation fee and reconnection fee which came close to about $300-$350. All because some idiot employee couldn't get their **** in order. Sprint lost a customer REAL quick there.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank10* /forum/post/14413746
> 
> 
> until recently, a good number of stations were carried via unencrypted qam. now, they are being scrambled. local channels are still available unscrambled.
> 
> 
> now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
> 
> TBS
> 
> TNT
> 
> STO
> 
> FSNOH
> 
> HDNET
> 
> DHT
> 
> 
> I'm hoping it's temporary, but I doubt it.



Yep this happened to a couple of us on the boards (and I presume everyone on TWC) about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and I haven't seen them come back. If you also notice, they re-mapped many of the "0" channels. Maybe someone went in to do that, and noticed all the unencyrpted stuff and said, that ain't right.


----------



## frank10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14414538
> 
> 
> Yep this happened to a couple of us on the boards (and I presume everyone on TWC) about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and I haven't seen them come back. If you also notice, they re-mapped many of the "0" channels. Maybe someone went in to do that, and noticed all the unencyrpted stuff and said, that ain't right.



I called and logged a complaint, but it won't do any good. they didn't understand how I could get HD channels on a TV without a set top box.


at least they left the locals unencrypted


----------



## Lighting Guy

I apologize for the off-topic right off the bat (although it does involve TWC so...)


I came home from work about 6:00pm yesterday to find my roadrunner motorola sufboard's send light slowly blinking, and of course the internet didn't work.


I had stuff to do around the house, and still 1-1/2 hours later didn't work, so I called TWC for billing issues, and also mentioned the no internet thing. She scheduled a truck roll for next Tues. Not wanting to go all weekend without the net, I called RR national helpline. That was also useless, with them claiming there were no outages, must be my line or modem.


Fast forward to this morning at work, I check help.rr.com, network status page. It lists a "red" outage for


TWC-NEO-OHIO, 7/31/08 3:38:56 PM

http://help.rr.com/HMSLogic/network_status.aspx (I don't know if that link will work or not since its asp)


Why in the world did they not just tell me that? Anyone else having issues? It was still "broken" this morning when I left for work.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank10* /forum/post/14414594
> 
> 
> I called and logged a complaint, but it won't do any good. they didn't understand how I could get HD channels on a TV without a set top box.
> 
> 
> at least they left the locals unencrypted



haha yeah that doesn't surprise me. Probably less than 5% of the CSR's would know what a qam tuner is and how it works. Legally they have to provide the locals (although its an argument whether its the SD or HD feed) unencrypted, but they don't have to provide the others, so unfortunately we don't have any legal ground to stand on complaining we don't get those (bonus) channels any more.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14414538
> 
> 
> Yep this happened to a couple of us on the boards (and I presume everyone on TWC) about 1-1/2 weeks ago, and I haven't seen them come back. If you also notice, they re-mapped many of the "0" channels. Maybe someone went in to do that, and noticed all the unencyrpted stuff and said, that ain't right.



It was only a matter of time before the cable companies would remove subscription channels in "Clear QAM". There was only a small percentage of HDTVs with clear QAM tuners in the marketplace until recently. They will leave locals in the clear because they are required. Now that more than 50% of new TVs are equipped with clear QAM tuners it would have begun to significantly interfere with their sales of HD tiers. Whoever thought they were getting one up on the cable companies with their HDTV with in the clear QAM tuners will now need to buy an HD tier to recieve HD cable. Pay up! The party is over.


Ray


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14413493
> 
> 
> Me either with sidebars. Particularly with plasmas as regular side bar use can be a big problem down the road with premature or uneven screen wear.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately inaccurate "full screen" is common in HDTV's. Using full screen my NEC is very accurate but my Panny is not nearly as accurate and is noticeably different (unnaturally stretched).



The screen wear isn't too bad. As a Plasma viewer, I still use sidebars on non-HD programming(which I watch a majority of the time) and the screen wear isn't too bad. That may be a subjective answer, but keeping a watchable, unstretched picture kinda outweighs burn in. The only times it is really noticeable is on widescreen programming that is bright, like a white background.


...and I've had the set for about two years, so I'll have to see how it is down the road.


The TV itself does a horrible job. The result is the "funhouse mirror" effect. The cable box isn't much better(circles still look oval).


----------



## ZManCartFan

I've been pretty happy with my Samsung plasma. I let the box feed it native resolutions, and I usually watch SD material stretched. (Although I don't watch much SD anymore with the great HD selection we get on Armstrong







) I used to absolutely hate stretch-o-vision, but I was so worried about image retention that I got used to it. It's now to the point that I don't even notice it.


I have an el-cheapo Visio LCD in my bedroom, and I actually use the panoramic stretch feature. Again, I've gotten used to it. It's the worst-of-the-worst in terms of the funhouse mirror effect, but that set is usually just for background noise while I'm going to sleep anyway.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank10* /forum/post/14413746
> 
> 
> until recently, a good number of stations were carried via unencrypted qam. now, they are being scrambled. local channels are still available unscrambled.
> 
> 
> now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
> 
> TBS
> 
> TNT
> 
> STO
> 
> FSNOH
> 
> HDNET
> 
> DHT
> 
> 
> I'm hoping it's temporary, but I doubt it.



Here is what we get free with Time Warner Amherst, OH

NBC HD 84-1

UPN HD 84-2

CBS HD 85-1

OHIO 85-2

PBS HD 85-3

WVIZ-ED 85-4

TBS HD 88-1

WEATHER PLUS 104-6

FIRST ALERT WEATHER 104-8

MOJO 105-2

FOX HD 110-1

ABC HD 110-2

CW HD 116-1

HD SPORTS 116-3

Plus the analogs. Note: these channels numbers defer slightly from my Sony TV to my Toshiba.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14414612
> 
> 
> I apologize for the off-topic right off the bat (although it does involve TWC so...)
> 
> 
> I came home from work about 6:00pm yesterday to find my roadrunner motorola sufboard's send light slowly blinking, and of course the internet didn't work.
> 
> 
> I had stuff to do around the house, and still 1-1/2 hours later didn't work, so I called TWC for billing issues, and also mentioned the no internet thing. She scheduled a truck roll for next Tues. Not wanting to go all weekend without the net, I called RR national helpline. That was also useless, with them claiming there were no outages, must be my line or modem.
> 
> 
> Fast forward to this morning at work, I check help.rr.com, network status page. It lists a "red" outage for
> 
> 
> TWC-NEO-OHIO, 7/31/08 3:38:56 PM
> 
> http://help.rr.com/HMSLogic/network_status.aspx (I don't know if that link will work or not since its asp)
> 
> 
> Why in the world did they not just tell me that? Anyone else having issues? It was still "broken" this morning when I left for work.



How are your TV channels? Are any of the analogs snowy? This will offer a clue as to whether it's a signal level issue.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank10* /forum/post/14413746
> 
> 
> 
> now scrambled stations that weren't previously include
> 
> TBS
> 
> TNT
> 
> STO
> 
> FSNOH
> 
> HDNET
> 
> DHT



These channels are not supposed to be in the clear, ever. The only channels REQUIRED to be in the clear are local OTA broadcast channels(SD and HD). The fact these channels were in the clear must have been a mistake from the changes being made to the system. I would not expect them to come back.


At one time I had HBO HD, Showtime HD and HDNET in the clear, but they disappeared.


----------



## bassguitarman

Did this thread die ?

No activity since 8-1

I will mention that Timewarner in former Adelphia area added 4 HD channels for olympics including USA HD (now Psych, Monk and Burn Notice in HD)

hurray

Dave


----------



## jtscherne

Oh, well... I'm trying to think if anything important got lost with the AVS Forum crash (see the home page for details). Please, let's not repeat the Olympics complaints!!!!


----------



## jtscherne

Check the home page (avsforum.com). Board crashed and they didn't have a recent backup. Everything went back to August 1st.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/14422837
> 
> 
> Did this thread die ?
> 
> No activity since 8-1
> 
> I will mention that Timewarner in former Adelphia area added 4 HD channels for olympics including USA HD (now Psych, Monk and Burn Notice in HD)
> 
> hurray
> 
> Dave


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/14422838
> 
> 
> Oh, well... I'm trying to think if anything important got lost with the AVS Forum crash (see the home page for details). Please, let's not repeat the Olympics complaints!!!!



Maybe not important to you, but important to others. I still say everyone in America should be able to watch the Olympic Games free of charge.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14422951
> 
> 
> Maybe not important to you, but important to others. I still say everyone in America should be able to watch the Olympic Games free of charge.



Ugh! Not to start the debate again, but EVERYONE CAN WATCH OLYMPICS FOR FREE!!! It's called NBC and it is an OTA network. Plus, there's tons of events streaming online--for free!


----------



## Smarty-pants

OTA does not even come close to getting all the televised Olympic Games, and not everyone has blazing fast high speed broadband







. ...not to mention that broadband is not free... hell, it's not even cheap.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14424098
> 
> 
> OTA does not even come close to getting all the televised Olympic Games, and not everyone has blazing fast high speed broadband
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . ...not to mention that broadband is not free... hell, it's not even cheap.



Now back to what we were talking about. Not EVERYBODY gets the Olympics. If you just have cable hooked up to the TV then you don't get digital. If you don't get digital then you don't get the HD channels.


Unless you know more then I do. Are they shoing them on analog?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14424696
> 
> 
> Now back to what we were talking about. Not EVERYBODY gets the Olympics. If you just have cable hooked up to the TV then you don't get digital. If you don't get digital then you don't get the HD channels.
> 
> 
> Unless you know more then I do. Are they shoing them on analog?



Huh?










Maybe I just haven't read the past half dozen posts on the subject thoroughly enough, but I don't think anyone had explicitly limited the whole 'Getting the Olympics' bit to just HD broadcasting. Fact is 1) You can get it OTA _Analog_ just fine via local NBC affiliates. 2) If you have cable, you can also receive the Olympics via all the channels that NBC broadcasts the games on that TWC offers in SD analog (NBC, USA, Bravo, and CNBC to name the ones off the top of my head.).


This is, of course, in addition to what you can get via OTA HD, Digital SD on cable, and every single HD channel that TWC is currently offering to view the Olympics.


So unless I'm missing something, EVERYONE can get the Olympics in some fashion. Granted, by the very nature of the beast, you can't have EVERY game contained therein broadcast in a timely manner on a single station and, as such, is why it's all being broadcasted on half a dozen different channels. If you are stuck with OTA via either SD or HD, you are stuck with what's on the local NBC affiliates. For cable customers, you get what is broadcast on every NBC/U owned channel during the specificed Olympics timeslots (barring your local region/cableco and which of these channels they offer and in what tier. NEO Time Warner has everything but UniversalHD on all packages from the basic analog tier on up.)


----------



## Cathode Kid

Apparently some of the opening fireworks were CGI


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14424787
> 
> 
> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I just haven't read the past half dozen posts on the subject thoroughly enough, but I don't think anyone had explicitly limited the whole 'Getting the Olympics' bit to just HD broadcasting. Fact is 1) You can get it OTA _Analog_ just fine via local NBC affiliates. 2) If you have cable, you can also receive the Olympics via all the channels that NBC broadcasts the games on that TWC offers in SD analog (NBC, USA, Bravo, and CNBC to name the ones off the top of my head.).
> 
> 
> This is, of course, in addition to what you can get via OTA HD, Digital SD on cable, and every single HD channel that TWC is currently offering to view the Olympics.
> 
> 
> So unless I'm missing something, EVERYONE can get the Olympics in some fashion. Granted, by the very nature of the beast, you can't have EVERY game contained therein broadcast in a timely manner on a single station and, as such, is why it's all being broadcasted on half a dozen different channels. If you are stuck with OTA via either SD or HD, you are stuck with what's on the local NBC affiliates. For cable customers, you get what is broadcast on every NBC/U owned channel during the specificed Olympics timeslots (barring your local region/cableco and which of these channels they offer and in what tier. NEO Time Warner has everything but UniversalHD on all packages from the basic analog tier on up.)




Well, I subscribe to TW basic and i get channel 3... that's it and that's all. I suppose an arguement could be submized to say that I could errect an antenna and get more.

The whole basis of the discussion was that... since TW is opening up FREE channels for the soul purpose of giving subscribers the opportunity to view the Olympics, then they should do it for ALL their customers. Literally all they would have to do is flip a switch. Just like when every once in a while, when they had free HBO weekends to promote HBO and try to get people to subscribe to HBO. I'd get HBO just like every other channel, and NO, I did NOT have a box.


----------



## nickdawg

You just said you subscribe to Time Warner's basic(2-18 I assume). There's your problem. You get what you pay for. If you paid for the higher service(analog expanded basic or Digital) you'd get more. I get, scratch that, I PAY for the Digital HDTV service, so I get USA, BBall/Soccer and now Universal HD. I'd be pretty p*$$ed if those channels were going to those NOT paying for additional service plus a box.


And broadband is not that expensive. I pay $20 with AT&T and streaming content works just fine. I was watching Judo the other day as well as replays of last night's swimming.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14425198
> 
> 
> You just said you subscribe to Time Warner's basic(2-18 I assume). There's your problem. You get what you pay for. If you paid for the higher service(analog expanded basic or Digital) you'd get more. I get, scratch that, I PAY for the Digital HDTV service, so I get USA, BBall/Soccer and now Universal HD. I'd be pretty p*$$ed if those channels were going to those NOT paying for additional service plus a box.
> 
> 
> And broadband is not that expensive. I pay $20 with AT&T and streaming content works just fine. I was watching Judo the other day as well as replays of last night's swimming.



I pay for service too. The channels are supposed to be FREE, not channels given to you because you're stupid enough to pay TW $100+ every month. If they are free channels for subscribers, they should be free channels for ALL subscribers. Who the hell died and made you the boss of who gets free channels and who doesn't. Get over yourself.


----------



## Vchat20

At this point you are merely splitting hairs just to get your own point across. But I'll go ahead and humor you:


These HD channels are 'digital'. You are not paying for 'digital cable', but rather 'basic analog cable'. Do you really expect to be favored in this respect? If TW really wanted to be absolutely anal, they could go around and place traps on the lines of those not subscribing to digital service to block the upper frequencies carrying QAM content. Would you prefer that?


As it stands, there is no regulation ANYWHERE saying that they MUST carry all of their digital channels unencrypted. Technically even local affiliates don't need to be according to the FCC. They just need to carry them on an analog tier. TW is completely in it's right here as far as I am concerned.


If you want to be cheap, no one is stopping you. But quit complaining about stuff you shouldn't be receiving in the first place.


----------



## nickdawg

I've about given up on this one. Vchat is correct. I know which package is in question here. The "Lifeline Basic" tier that includes channels 2-18 plus they may throw in up to 23 as well since NEON is their local channel. This package does not even include analog USA, CNBC or MSNBC. So why should Time Warner give HD channels to customers who don't even pay for the analog versions?


I remember hearing about this package in the news a few years back. Sportstime Ohio used to be time-shared with NEON until it moved to 76. Around that time all the cheap arses were whining about not getting STO in the super-cheap package. You get what you pay for.


----------



## Smarty-pants

You people are about as dense as a brick as brick wall. You totally do NOT get the point AT ALL!










I want to see the Olympic games. TW has made this possible by giving temporary FREE channels to those with boxes. Could easily be done for those without. Not looking for a free lunch. Not being a cheap-ass because I do not want to pay for hundreds of channels that I will never watch. Would not care if it were sd or hd, although obviously hd would be nice. I'm not complaining about stuff I should not be getting. I deserve to get it as much as ANY subscriber.


I have absolutely no idea what NEON is, and I have never had Sportstime Ohio since I have had Lifeline Basic for 4 years. Who the hell said anything about that stuff anyway.


----------



## nickdawg























































> Quote:
> If the 1,200 hours of Olympic coverage scheduled to air on NBC Universal's seven networks aren't enough for you, Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio is going a step further to give you a fix.
> 
> 
> The cable service announced Tuesday it will offer free on-demand Olympic programming, expanded HD service and broadband content from NBCOlympics.com via a link from Time Warner Cable's Road Runner Web site.
> 
> 
> Its Games Free on Demand will feature daily highlights and access to the best events each day. There will be overall daily highlights by sport — about 15 per day, some in HD — and Rewind — about 10 of the best sessions/games per day. Standard definition on demand will be available through the Sports on Demand portal (digital Channel 512) and high definition will be available through HD Showcase on Demand (digital Channel 479). Programming will be available on demand Sunday through Aug. 30.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable will make Universal HD (digital Channel 470) a free HD channel for the duration of the Olympics. Universal HD will provide high-definition coverage of select events broadcast on MSNBC and CNBC.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable will have additional HD coverage of the Olympics on the following:
> 
> 
> • NBC HD: 225 hours.
> 
> 
> • USA HD (temporarily Channel 450 for Olympics only): 165 hours.
> 
> 
> • Olympics Basketball HD (temporarily Channel 451): 12 hours a day.
> 
> 
> • Olympics Soccer HD (temporarily Channel 452): 12 hours a day.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio spokesman Joe Richardson said the cable company has no plans to add USA HD as a full-time channel after the Olympics.
> 
> 
> According to a news release from Time Warner, the digital channel positions listed above reflect those in realigned areas. Analog Basic channels will vary by area.



Before I go, I'll post this. The article from the Beacon where the TWC suit explains what is being added. On Demand content as well as USA, UHD and BB/Soccer on the 450s channels. As in this is for customers with boxes. You can only get On Demand and the HD channels in the 400s(other than local) with a box. They said nothing about anything else.


Not being mean or anything but I'd like to know why you're "entitled" to USA HD and the channel carrying CNBC/MSNBC HD if you don't even get them in SD? Why should someone paying basic only get channels that require a converter and digital service? THAT does not seem fair. Unless Time Warner wants to give EVERYONE free service for this month.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I'll try to speak more slowly ...



TW is opening up all those channels temporarily for FREE to customers with Warner boxes. I believe that ALL TW subscribers should be entitled to see all of the Olympic Games. Why do you think that you deserve the FREE channels and I do not? ...because your cable bill is more every month?

Why does it not seem fair? Free is free is free is free. No one is getting shafted. It would be free Olympics for EVERYONE. I don't get how that would be unfair.


----------



## Vchat20

Because it's NOT free when you have to have the digital cable tier to receive them. Simple as that. It's just as if they added more permanent HD channels to the lineup that remained encrypted. Do you think you'd be entitled to those as well?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14426193
> 
> 
> Because it's NOT free when you have to have the digital cable tier to receive them. Simple as that. It's just as if they added more permanent HD channels to the lineup that remained encrypted. Do you think you'd be entitled to those as well?



Ok, I get it now. You think that anything that comes into the system is due you because you pay for digital service. Well, it's not my fault that you're dumb enough to overpay for the crap they DO have, and are left in the dark for the stuff they don't. THAT has nothing to do with them offering free temporary channels so subscribers can see the Olympic Games.

It's NOT "as if they added more permenant HD channels", becuse that is NOT what is going on. ...simple as that...


----------



## Vchat20

Now you are clearly bitching just to be bitching about Time Warner's business practices. Give it up. You're heading down a steep slope here.


YES, it is fairly rediculous to be paying so much for so little. But I do anyways in lieu of alternatives. It's the way TW runs things and they are entitled to do so.


If you have such a problem, jump ship and go to Dish or DTV or stuff it. That simple.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Who is bitching about business practices? What ARE you even talking about?

No, the topic is STILL the same.

Pay attention now, don't drift away again. Are you with me?
I want to watch the Olympics.

Nevermind, at least you tried...


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I tried. I guess my Comprehension skills are just way too advanced to understand your line of reasoning. I'll stop trying.


----------



## Smarty-pants

maybe advanced BEYOND comprehension...

run along now...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14426351
> 
> I want to watch the Olympics.



Turn on WKYC channel 3.


Tell me what you are watching?


If you're not happy with TWC, there's always D*, E*, U-verse or OTA.


Or you could just get a better cable package.


And yes, I do deserve these channels. I PAY FOR THEM!! So does Vchat. If you subscribe to Digital Service plus and HDTV cable box, you get the channels. Simple as that. If you're SUBSCRIBE to Lifeline Basic, then you get whatever is in that tier. Last time I checked, USA, CNBC and MSNBC were NOT part of that tier.


Just imagine you did spend around $100 a month for limited HD choices plus the equipment. You spend ~$100 a month to get HD channels plus the ones added. Now think that some freeloader(yes, that's what it's like!) pays ONLY for Lifeline Basic but is still getting national HD cable channels PLUS the Olympic channels. That person is paying Lifeline Basic costs and getting all that and I'm paying FULL PRICE for DIGITAL SERVICE. What's wrong with that picture?


SO what it is the Olympics. Does that mean cable should "open the lines" for every big event? What about the Super Bowl? Or the Oscars? Or the US Open? Or the MTV Awards? Maybe they should also let people without boxes get this weekend's WWE PPV event for free as well. Let the people with boxes pay but those who freeload digital TV get it for free because they are "entitled to it".


----------



## Vchat20



It's funny you start calling us idiots for paying $100+ to TW when it's a comparable price to what other providers charge for similar programming and then you pull out the patriotism card for the stinking Olympics. If you aren't willing to part with your hard earned money at the whims of the capitalist government, you, sir, are no patriot.



Anyways, I am clearly done on this subject. As far as I am concerned you can just keep on complaining till you turn blue in the face or till the olympics are over; Whiever comes first. Not gonna shed a tear that you can't get your precious channels that you so rightly deserve, your highness.


Now can we get back on the actual topic here?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14426133
> 
> 
> TW is opening up all those channels temporarily for FREE to customers with Warner boxes. Free is free is free is free.



This misconception seems to be at the root of your confusion. T/W is not giving anything away for free. They are simply adding some additional channels this month for those who pay for certain packages. If you pay for those packages, you get the extra channels. If you don't, well, then you don't.


Pretty simple. There's nothing "free" about it.


BTW, I don't like paying T/W all this money every month either. But I do it because I like what they provide in exchange for all that money.


Your premise that watching the Olympics should be free for all US citizens is an interesting one. Send it off to your favorite presidential candidate - maybe you can get it added to the party platform.


----------



## jtscherne

There's no way to win this argument. In one of the lost messages he talked about how it's all about the almighty dollar. Of course, that's what its ALL about! NBC is spending a fortune to televise the Olympics and of course they have to recoup the costs and make a profit. If I owned stock in the company, I would expect them to do so.

Frankly, I read a lot of forums and it always seems to be the television boards (here and DBSTalk) that contain the most complaints, as if TV is a necessity instead of a luxury...


----------



## hookbill

OK, Gentlemen. Let's calm down first. The system went down and the previous conversations I had with Smarty-Pants, who is a good guy seem to have exploded due to misunderstanding. Let's stop the name calling and all that OK?


Now, Smarty-Pants the question I originally asked before the AVS Forum went down and lost all our post was because I don't understand how QAM worked was do you pay for digital? In the course of the answers you said you pay for lifeline basic.


Now that answered my question.


In my post prior to the wipe out I said I don't want to get into judgement of what is "stealing" or anything like that. As far as I'm concerned if you can get digital channels via QAM then that's fine. I said TW screws us all the time if somebody screws them back I don't care. That post got lost with the mess that happened over the weekend.


It is not possible for someone who has lifeline basic without QAM to get digital channels, at least to the best of my knowledge.


So when you said that they promised it free to all subscribers, you have to understand they were talking about digital subscribers. And It doesn't cost 100.00 for digital but that's besides the point. The point is that unless you have QAM and you're the average joe with basic lifeline who goes from cable to the wall can't get those stations.


And when TW says HD is free, not exactly. It's free with digital subscription as someone else pointed out above. I know in their commercials they say HD is free, but you would need digital which means either a box or cable cards. nickdawg points that out in his post.


So if they are hiding it from you on QAM somehow or blocking it, that is their right. Technically they don't even have to give you local HD without digital because HD is digital.


So be happy with what you got. You are getting what you have for free. That's all I'm saying. If you can't get a certain channel it's not "BS" it's just the way it is.


The price for their Digital Value Service beyond the 2 year period they are currently locking people into (yes, they are now contracting) is 45.95. That is for basic digital. HD comes free with that. The 2 year package is 29.95 and from what I read they lock you into it. That also includes their phone, I think.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, Gentlemen. Let's calm down first. The system went down and the previous conversations I had with Smarty-Pants, who is a good guy seem to have exploded due to misunderstanding. Let's stop the name calling and all that OK?
> 
> 
> Now, Smarty-Pants the question I originally asked before the AVS Forum went down and lost all our post was because I don't understand how QAM worked was do you pay for digital? In the course of the answers you said you pay for lifeline basic.
> 
> 
> Now that answered my question.
> 
> 
> In my post prior to the wipe out I said I don't want to get into judgement of what is "stealing" or anything like that. As far as I'm concerned if you can get digital channels via QAM then that's fine. I said TW screws us all the time if somebody screws them back I don't care. That post got lost with the mess that happened over the weekend.



I'm not stealing anything Hook. I subscribe to lifeline, and that's what I PAY for. I could just go out and take the filters off the line. It would be very easy, I know how to do it, but I'm not like that.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is not possible for someone who has lifeline basic without QAM to get digital channels, at least to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> 
> So when you said that they promised it free to all subscribers, you have to understand they were talking about digital subscribers. And It doesn't cost 100.00 for digital but that's besides the point. The point is that unless you have QAM and you're the average joe with basic lifeline who goes from cable to the wall can't get those stations.



So give me the stations in SD... I don't care. I deserve to see the Olympics as much as everyone else, no matter what "package" I have. That is MY opinion, which obviously is in the extreme miniority.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And when TW says HD is free, not exactly. It's free with digital subscription as someone else pointed out above. I know in their commercials they say HD is free, but you would need digital which means either a box or cable cards. nickdawg points that out in his post.
> 
> 
> So if they are hiding it from you on QAM somehow or blocking it, that is their right. Technically they don't even have to give you local HD without digital because HD is digital.



I diagree. TW seems to be interpreting the law the same way as I do... that they have to provide the local channels in digital along side the sd. Again, that's MY opinion and interpretation that I am entitled to same as everyone else. So, that when interpreting the law in that manner, I would then become a digital subscriber, thus meaning I SHOULD get the free channels.

If you can provide the (current) documention from Time Warner, that my service is restricted to ANALOG ONLY, then I will relent that statement.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So be happy with what you got. You are getting what you have for free. That's all I'm saying. If you can't get a certain channel it's not "BS" it's just the way it is.



I am not getting anything for free. I pay for my service just like everyone else.


[qoute=hookbill]The price for their Digital Value Service beyond the 2 year period they are currently locking people into (yes, they are now contracting) is 45.95. That is for basic digital. HD comes free with that. The 2 year package is 29.95 and from what I read they lock you into it. That also includes their phone, I think.[/quote]

Now add in 4 boxes for my house, 3 of them HD... taxes... fees... fess on top of taxes... taxes on top of fees







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14428245
> 
> 
> I'm not stealing anything Hook. I subscribe to lifeline, and that's what I PAY for. I could just go out and take the filters off the line. It would be very easy, I know how to do it, but I'm not like that.



Did you not see the part where it said I don't want to get into that? Give me a break dude, I'm on your side on this.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14428245
> 
> 
> So give me the stations in SD... I don't care. I deserve to see the Olympics as much as everyone else, no matter what "package" I have. That is MY opinion, which obviously is in the extreme miniority.



You're entitled to your opinion.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14428245
> 
> 
> I diagree. TW seems to be interpreting the law the same way as I do... that they have to provide the local channels in digital along side the sd. Again, that's MY opinion and interpretation that I am entitled to same as everyone else. So, that when interpreting the law in that manner, I would then become a digital subscriber, thus meaning I SHOULD get the free channels.



You're entitled to your opininon. You just happen to be wrong. That law applies only to local channels. USA is not a local channel, and neither is Universal.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14428245
> 
> 
> If you can provide the (current) documention from Time Warner, that my service is restricted to ANALOG ONLY, then I will relent that statement.




It's in the rate guide . You need expanded basic and digital service.

*Basic Service..................................................... .. $9.45

Standard Service (Basic and Expanded Basic)..................$53.00


DIGITAL CABLE

Digital Basic Tier........................................$5.00/month

Digital Choice Tier.....................................$5.00/month

Digital Movie Tier.......................................$5.00/month

Digital Sports Tier......................................$5.00/month

HDTV Tier.................................................$5.00/month

Spanish Language Tier...............................$5.00/month

Digital Equipment required to receive any Digital

service. Subscription to any Digital Tier includes

Digital Music Choice, Interactive On-Screen Guide, and

access to Video On Demand.*



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14428245
> 
> 
> I am not getting anything for free. I pay for my service just like everyone else.



Yes you pay for it. But you don't pay as much as other people do. I'm not being judgemental here, I'm just saying that you claiming you have a right to it is incorrect.[/quote]



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14428245
> 
> 
> [qoute=hookbill]*The price for their Digital Value Service beyond the 2 year period they are currently locking people into (yes, they are now contracting) is 45.95. That is for basic digital. HD comes free with that. The 2 year package is 29.95 and from what I read they lock you into it. That also includes their phone, I think*.
> 
> 
> Now add in 4 boxes for my house, 3 of them HD... taxes... fees... fess on top of taxes... taxes on top of fees
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I'm not going to argue with my own quote. And with TiVo I pay a lot more.










Look, I'm real sorry that TW keeps doing those things to you. You know what they do to me, a person who pays for digital? They copy protect every channel on their digital tier. That means I can't move something I record on TNTHD to my computer or my other TiVo. But if I record the analog version, no problem, copy and distribute freely!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smarty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I disagree. TW seems to be interpreting the law the same way as I do... that they have to provide the local channels in digital along side the sd. Again, that's MY opinion and interpretation that I am entitled to same as everyone else. So, that when interpreting the law in that manner, I would then become a digital subscriber, thus meaning I SHOULD get the free channels.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're entitled to your opininon. You just happen to be wrong. That law applies only to local channels. USA is not a local channel, and neither is Universal.



Right, exactly. The law applies to local channels. Thus, making me a digital subscriber... thus making ALL subscribers digital subscribers.

Now, the new channels (containing Olympic Games content) are being provided to digital subscribers for free TEMPORARILY for the duration on the Olympics. Thus, I should be getting the channels too.
















I'm not asking for a permanent application of those channels. Only the temporary application just like everyone with a box gets.

These channels are provided temporarily for subscribers to watch the Olympics. Therefore all subscribers should be able to watch the Olympics, not just those who pay the most. You guys can go on and on about how you deserve these channels to be added permenantly because you pay "so much" and you deserve them, ect...ect...ect..., but that is not the topic at hand.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hook* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Digital Equipment required to receive any Digital
> 
> service.*



If this is what you are referring to, that my service is analog only, then I rebutt that I DO have digital equipment... the tuners built into my TVs and external tuners ARE digital equipment.


----------



## jtscherne

Why are you arguing with US? As far as I know, none of us work for Time Warner.


And that's the last thing I plan on saying. Nothing will change, so live with it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14429237
> 
> 
> Right, exactly. The law applies to local channels. Thus, making me a digital subscriber... thus making ALL subscribers digital subscribers.
> 
> Now, the new channels (containing Olympic Games content) are being provided to digital subscribers for free TEMPORARILY for the duration on the Olympics. Thus, I should be getting the channels too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not asking for a permanent application of those channels. Only the temporary application just like everyone with a box gets.
> 
> These channels are provided temporarily for subscribers to watch the Olympics. Therefore all subscribers should be able to watch the Olympics, not just those who pay the most. You guys can go on and on about how you deserve these channels to be added permenantly because you pay "so much" and you deserve them, ect...ect...ect..., but that is not the topic at hand.
> 
> 
> If this is what you are referring to, that my service is analog only, then I rebutt that I DO have digital equipment... the tuners built into my TVs and external tuners ARE digital equipment.



You are just being plain stubborn! The "law" doesn't go into effect until Feburary 9, 2009. Getting a little ahead of yourself, arn't you?


Anyway when you tell someone you are on their side and they still want to argue there is no point in going on. I mean really nickdawg, we gotta stop this.


Whoops. Sorry. I forgot this was Smarty-Pants.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Thems fightin words...










jtscherne, hookbill, (even nickdog),

I opened this can o' worms, so I guess I'll close it now.

I think I have made my point clear enough (I hope).

...and yes, I am being stubborn. That's usually how I am when I know I'm right







.

So now that we all agree that I AM right, let's just get back to our regularly scheduled programming (pun intended).







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14429368
> 
> 
> Thems fightin words...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jtscherne, hookbill, (even nickdog),
> 
> I opened this can o' worms, so I guess I'll close it now.
> 
> I think I have made my point clear enough (I hope).
> 
> ...and yes, I am being stubborn. That's usually how I am when I know I'm right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So now that we all agree that I AM right, let's just get back to our regularly scheduled programming (pun intended).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



No you didn't open the damn can of worms. Technically the AVS forum did when they lost all our info. Otherwise you wouldn't have gotten beaten to a pulp like you did.


When I responded to your post I simply asked if you paid for digital or got it free with the basic through QAM.


Next thing you know, system crashes, I try to repost, nobody understands what the heck I'm talking about and you get as stubborn as a mule.


On second thought, you're right. It's all your fault.










And absolutely, you are right!


----------



## jtscherne

Obviously, Hook, you didn't see any of the messages from Sunday before the system blew up. We started this argument then. It got pretty heated even before yesterday (Smarty-Pants even threatened violence against TW!)


All kidding aside, sorry you feel you didn't get what you deserve, Smarty, so good luck.


----------



## Vchat20

Just as a clarification here: The ONLY reason why you can get digital QAM channels without paying outright for digital service is that is the basis of the whole digital broadcasting over docsis and these are what your set-tops are getting along with your tv. The only reason why you are able to get any in the clear is for a variety of different reasons. One of which is being lazy on the part of the headend techs. But don't think that just because you CAN get these channels in the first place without paying for digital service is because TW has, in some way, fully sanctioned this. That is FAR from the truth and they have shown this by starting to encrypt many of the clear channels in this region to lock out anyone BUT paying digital tier customers.


Once again: Yes, you may be able to get these channels that are in the clear without paying, but only on a mere technicality and TW is legally in the right to correct this which they HAVE been doing by encrypting many of them.


And to recall a statement I made earlier on: If TW really wanted to, they could simply put a trap on everyone's lines who didn't pay for any digital services to block anything above the frequencies used by the analog channels. and if cases like Smarty's start getting out of hand and largely publicized, it may very well end up going that way.


If you really think TW is so ignorant that they'd totally miss the fact that someone can just pay for the lowest cable tier and get high-end HD services for nothing, you are sorely mistaken.


On the topic of the added channels for the Olympics: People who are SUPPOSED to get them are getting them just fine. Set-top customers are good to go. Cablecard customers are good to go. TW in no way needs to cater their system for an anomaly in the customer-base which isn't even mentioned as being a SUPPORTED setup anywhere in their terms, website, whathaveyou.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14432534
> 
> 
> Just as a clarification here: The ONLY reason why you can get digital QAM channels without paying outright for digital service is that is the basis of the whole digital broadcasting over docsis and these are what your set-tops are getting along with your tv. The only reason why you are able to get any in the clear is for a variety of different reasons. One of which is being lazy on the part of the headend techs. But don't think that just because you CAN get these channels in the first place without paying for digital service is because TW has, in some way, fully sanctioned this. That is FAR from the truth and they have shown this by starting to encrypt many of the clear channels in this region to lock out anyone BUT paying digital tier customers.
> 
> 
> Once again: Yes, you may be able to get these channels that are in the clear without paying, but only on a mere technicality and TW is legally in the right to correct this which they HAVE been doing by encrypting many of them.
> 
> 
> And to recall a statement I made earlier on: If TW really wanted to, they could simply put a trap on everyone's lines who didn't pay for any digital services to block anything above the frequencies used by the analog channels.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> If you really think TW is so ignorant that they'd totally miss the fact that someone can just pay for the lowest cable tier and get high-end HD services for nothing, you are sorely mistaken.
> 
> 
> On the topic of the added channels for the Olympics: People who are SUPPOSED to get them are getting them just fine. Set-top customers are good to go. Cablecard customers are good to go. TW in no way needs to cater their system for an anomaly in the customer-base which isn't even mentioned as being a SUPPORTED setup anywhere in their terms, website, whathaveyou.




All I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH same ole crap BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.



You have no idea what TW is doing or is going to do with QAM modulated frequences. What you claim to be received out of laziness, in my region, they have gone to a lot of trouble to revamp the system. All of my local channels in digital/HD are all maped correctly to 3-1, 3-2, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1, ect.. ect... ect...

They were never like that till a few months ago. So I wouldn't exactly call that lazy.


...and what you call a mere tecnicality, is what other people call the LAW. TW is abiding by the law when making all local channels available in digital. Now there _could_ be an arguement of wether they don't have to do that till 02/09, but that's kind-of beside the point.


...and to recall that statement you made earlier?... :ya, it was kind-of obserd the first time, not to mention the second. I can't really see TW spending MILLIONS of dollars going around and puting extra traps on every house that has analog only service. That would actually defeat the purpose of them providng digital content to all their customers.

I mean, isn't this the goal?... to go all digital? Yet you are suggesting the opposite



















> Quote:
> If you really think TW is so ignorant that they'd totally miss the fact that someone can just pay for the lowest cable tier and get high-end HD services for nothing, you are sorely mistaken.


----------



## Vchat20

You are forgetting the fact that the local channels, both SD digital, SD analog, and HD have to be sent, BY LAW, completely unchanged from the source feed. This says *NOTHING* about pay-for cable networks like TBS, TNT, etal. Two totally different concepts.


I couldn't give two ****s about the fact that you happened to get your locals in HD with just the lifeline basic tier. But claiming that you have the god-given right to a package that you are technically not paying for is just baffling. It's just the same as if you were to justify DBS customers using hacked smartcards to receive every channel available when they are only paying for the most basic package. It's a bizarro world justification at best.


In any case, you are clearly a stubborn jackass so I'm done arguing. As I said earlier: You can complain and ***** till you are blue in the face. TW certainly isn't going to pander to your godly desires and they'll just as soon tell you to shove off and go to D* or Dish as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14433371
> 
> 
> In any case, you are clearly a stubborn jackass so I'm done arguing. As I said earlier: You can complain and ***** till you are blue in the face. TW certainly isn't going to pander to your godly desires and they'll just as soon tell you to shove off and go to D* or Dish as well.



Yeah, I didn't know he could be so stubborn either, but apparently when he makes up his mind that he's right, that's it.


Still, he's not a bad guy, and I gotta come to his defense somewhat. Despite the fact that he is shall we say, not wrong just a bit incorrect.










He is not going to change his mind on this. It's very apparent and when you see someone is that firm on their stance just walk away. It's the first time I've ever seen him kick his heels up so much but he did say there was no chance of changing his mind.


So once again can we please stop the name calling, drop this conversation, and move on.


Smarty-Pants don't you dare retaliate. It's over. You're right. Let it be.


----------



## nickdawg

Maybe they are mapping the locals to be available in digital, as they must carry them. Eventually we will see cable killing the analog channels and sending down digital-only. Again, that only applies to LOCAL BROADCAST. Repeat, LOCAL BROADCAST. Cable systems are making a move away from analog too. And just wait until TWC starts deploying SDV(especially if you're in legacy TWC areas). Once digital cable channels and HD are put on SDV, you'll never see them in the clear, not even by accident. SDV is the way of the future.


And I think they should install extra traps if necessary. Just like the STBs use conditional access or cable cards have POD ID #s that control and determine which services are subscribed to and nothing more, analog customers should have the same restrictions.


Yes, I am taking TWC's side. They own and control the lines and the services transmitted on them. By being a customer you agree to their terms and commitments. YOU agree to follow their policies. If you disagree, go with another provider or OTA. There's no shortage.


Do I think we should get more channels for the money? Yes. But until then we have to take what we get in our chosen package. And if you're not happy, UPGRADE!!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookdog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smarty-Pants don't you dare retaliate. It's over. You're right. Let it be.



Awe!!!... c'mon!!! I had it all typed out when you replied before I could submit. It was a good one too







. Got a couple _zingers_ in there WITHOUT name calling (ahem)







.


Oh well. Your one of the good guys too and I like you. So, At your request I will relent... and stop all this verbal abuse














.


----------



## nickdawg

hookdog? WTF??


----------



## Smarty-pants

I see you caught that little play on words there huh?...


----------



## Trip in VA

Don't know if it's already been put on the air and/or noticed here or not (all the cable talk here makes OTA posts hard to follow) but yesterday WVIZ-DT asked for an STA to boost power and transmit from a higher location. Not a huge boost, by any stretch of the imagination, but they ask for 121m 10 kW ND. This is up from 30m 1 kW ND.


They request this until November, when they believe the new WKYC-DT tower will be finished and they'll be able to operate at full power.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg

Anyone think we'll see more HD channels after the Olympics? Since we obviously have the capacity, why not? I see other areas in Ohio that have the same channels as we do(HGTV, Food, A&E, History) also have National Geographic and MHD. Once the Olympics end, there's going to two openings left by the temporary Basketball and Soccer channels.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...&Image1=submit


----------



## Vchat20

Honestly, I'd certainly hope so. Even if all they keep is USAHD, I'll be happy.


Then again, every news piece has stated they're keeping them ONLY for the Olympics and then it immediately goes back to the previous lineup until further notice.


Who knows with TW though.


----------



## nickdawg

I did read before the server crash that one other Ohio system(Armstrong I think) added USA HD permanently. Plus it is available on Comcast, D* and possibly Cablevision. I'd have to check the master list in HDTV Programming.


I honestly can't see why they won't add USA permanently. They made an agreement for the Olympics. Is it honestly that hard to make an agreement to carry the HD version of a network currently carried in SD? C'mon, TBS was on from the start. Plus TWC even filled in all the metadata for USA HD. It's not just listed generically as an Olympics channel. And a majority of TWC markets have added this channel, so it seems stupid and backwards to suddenly get rid of it. I'm hoping the whole thing about not promising USA is just required legal nonsense until progress is made. Just like nothing was said about WBNX at the beginning. I'd really like to see USA, SCIFI and the future MSNBC HD added.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14434904
> 
> 
> I did read before the server crash that one other Ohio system(Armstrong I think) added USA HD permanently.



Yes, we've been getting USA HD for quite some time (several months) on Armstrong.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, I doubt you will get SDV before anybody else in the TW area. You have to understand that TW wants one area with all the same service. If they do as you suggest, that would not accomplish anything. And even though you got the cable line up change first that's apples and oranges. Also it wasn't that long before all of us got the lineup changes.


Now the big question is, how does TW pull off going to all digital? They will have to make boxes available for those with basic lifeline cable. Are they willing to do that for free?


One other thing I don't think you understand. When SDV does arrive not every channel will be SDV. A good majority of them will, but your locals and maybe some of the other more popular stations won't. But you are absolutely right, the only way TW can survive is with SDV.


Now as far as your statement about other choices, I don't have those choices. My wife will not let me put an antenna on the roof and even then I don't want to lose out on channels like FX, USA, TNT. I don't have a clean line of site for satellite. And I don't have U Verse or FIOS in my area. So I am stuck with TW.


And that comment by Smarty-Pants, you ought to consider it a compliment.


----------



## Tim Lones

Surprised nobody else has brought this up as yet..Apparently a software update on the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta HDC 8300 boxes has taken "longer than expected" My receiver is hung in the Ait rebooting mode and has been for who knows how long..Looks like a number of others are in the same situation..


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14435982
> 
> 
> Surprised nobody else has brought this up as yet..Apparently a software update on the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta HDC 8300 boxes has taken "longer than expected" My receiver is hung in the Ait rebooting mode and has been for who knows how long..Looks like a number of others are in the same situation..



Yeah. My mother woke me up this morning because ours was sitting dead on the Mystro boot screen. I dunno if it got fixed or cleared itself yet or not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14435982
> 
> 
> Surprised nobody else has brought this up as yet..Apparently a software update on the Time Warner Scientific Atlanta HDC 8300 boxes has taken "longer than expected" My receiver is hung in the Ait rebooting mode and has been for who knows how long..Looks like a number of others are in the same situation..



Thank you. You just made my day.










Really sorry about your misfortune, but whenever there are updates things can happen. Even with TiVos. However the constant reboot suggest to me that you have a bad hard drive. I'd take the machine back and get another, you will probably be fine. Of course you will lose all your recordings.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14437672
> 
> 
> Yeah. My mother woke me up this morning because ours was sitting dead on the Mystro boot screen. I dunno if it got fixed or cleared itself yet or not.




I have heard of similar issues as far away as Erie, Pa. Just after 1:30 My box came back up.


Edit:Just had the box freeze on a particular channel..the Mystro screen just came up after rebooting..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14435693
> 
> 
> nickdawg, I doubt you will get SDV before anybody else in the TW area.



I'm not talking about SDV in this case. I'm talking about the two openings left by the Olympic Basketball and Soccer channels. We obviously have more capacity than we thought. Plus Time Warner has more channels. I don't see why we don't have the same channels as other areas if we have the capacity.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14438680
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about SDV in this case. I'm talking about the two openings left by the Olympic Basketball and Soccer channels. We obviously have more capacity than we thought. Plus Time Warner has more channels. I don't see why we don't have the same channels as other areas if we have the capacity.



Yeah, well we've got that here as well.


TW is very tight with the purse strings. They don't want to pay the money out for more HD. If you thought they were simply "out of space" that's just not true. It's simply that they are cheap b#stards. Look at how long it took them to give us the CW and we were told that would be available on cable before OTA, but nope, not TW.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14439085
> 
> 
> Yeah, well we've got that here as well.
> 
> 
> TW is very tight with the purse strings. They don't want to pay the money out for more HD. If you thought they were simply "out of space" that's just not true. It's simply that they are cheap b#stards. Look at how long it took them to give us the CW and we were told that would be available on cable before OTA, but nope, not TW.



That's what I don't get. Follow my link posted earlier to the Columbus lineup. They get what we have PLUS National geographic and MHD. It's not much, but with TWC even two channels are better, especially if they are true HD. I don't see how money affects adding these channels. Time Warner already has agreements with them. Why aren't they added here? Does it cost THAT much? C'mon. D* has been launching freaking satellites and TWC cannot add two channels.


Flipping through the channels, I wanted to cry and scream when I saw what we get now. A bunch of stretchovision garbage!! TNT, TBS, A&E, FOod, HGTV, History! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! History HD had a STRETCHED LETTERBOX show on!!







Just stick the knife through my heart!!


On a good note, I read the updated "More News About HD on TWC" thread and now USA/SCIFI/MSNBC are "in negotiations with TWC". The bad news is NFL and BigTen are in the same category







. Right now I can only hope that the fact USA has already been added to a majority of TWC systems will influence the decision to add it permanently. I cannot even imagine how many complaints TWC will be getting if USA suddenly goes away. It is the Number One Cable Network afterall!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14439213
> 
> 
> On a good note, I read the updated "More News About HD on TWC" thread and now USA/SCIFI/MSNBC are "in negotiations with TWC". The bad news is NFL and BigTen are in the same category
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Right now I can only hope that the fact USA has already been added to a majority of TWC systems will influence the decision to add it permanently. I cannot even imagine how many complaints TWC will be getting if USA suddenly goes away. It is the Number One Cable Network afterall!



OMG they are actually posting this somewheres? "We are in negotiations" is what they were telling us when we were asking for the CW last November! That's what customer service says if you ask them.


NFL and Big Ten will never meet TWC's terms which is they want them on their "sports tier." And personally I could care less about either one of them.


However USA, yeah, I have a MAJOR problem with them pulling that rug out from under us.


"Most watched cable network?" Maybe. But best cable network is FX, hands down. And that's the one I want besides USA. The Shield in HD. A dream come true. Won't happen, starts Sept 2 final season. Dirt is great and I would just love to see Courtney Cox in HD. She's so hot I would watch her in just about anything and when she is semi nude, even better. Here's where we need a perverted icon, not the stick your tongue out one.


Add the Nip Tuck, The Riches, Damages and the second best show on FX, Rescue Me and you got great original Dramas.


----------



## nickdawg

That's the other one I want, FX. I love Rescue Me along with the other shows and movies. Plus there's USA, which is unique because I actually like everything on USA. From original shows like In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Psych and Monk to the movies and repeats of Law & Order and WWE Monday Night RAW. On the other hand, I absolutely HATE TNT!! I don't even look at that channel unless it's NBA Playoffs time. The rest of the time, it's ignored at the dawg house. Their original programming is garbage and most of the movies and older shows are stretched. Same with TBS. Horrendous original programming and the good shows like King of Queens and Seinfeld are stretched and filled with bugs/snipes. And the mother lovers at TWC force those two s**t channels on us. Those are the channels I honestly wish they'd dump. I know, there are sports there but that's why we have the HD Bonus channel my friends!! Just like FSN Ohio. Get us some channels with REAL HD. Even Sportstime Ohio kicks these cable networks arses.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14440476
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I absolutely HATE TNT!!.



The Closure is in real HD. As is Saving Grace. Holly Hunter at 50 is as tight as a teen age girl. They also have another series coming out in September, a legal series.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14435693
> 
> 
> When SDV does arrive not every channel will be SDV. A good majority of them will, but your locals and maybe some of the other more popular stations won't.



I certainly hope this is how it will work. Aside from the cash I've spent on MythTV equipment that would suddenly be useless, putting *everything* on SDV would preclude me from flipping my TV over to coax input to watch a third channel while the TiVo is recording two other channels, which I do fairly often.


SDV isn't a bad idea, but I hope it's reserved for channels that aren't commonly watched by a large percentage of subscribers - OnDemand/PPV and Basket Weaving HD would be good candidates. Keeping the locals as non-SDV is mandatory in my eyes...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14441864
> 
> 
> I certainly hope this is how it will work. Aside from the cash I've spent on MythTV equipment that would suddenly be useless, putting *everything* on SDV would preclude me from flipping my TV over to coax input to watch a third channel while the TiVo is recording two other channels, which I do fairly often.
> 
> 
> SDV isn't a bad idea, but I hope it's reserved for channels that aren't commonly watched by a large percentage of subscribers - OnDemand/PPV and Basket Weaving HD would be good candidates. Keeping the locals as non-SDV is mandatory in my eyes...



I learned most about it from a thread I read about a year or so ago in the TiVo forum. Austin TX was one of the first cities to go "full blown SDV" and there were a whole lot of disgruntled S3 owners. Never the less they said not every channel was SDV, but the majority of them were, and any new HD channels and some previous HD channels had been put on SDV. And many of the S3 owners said they would still prefer to keep their S3 then deal with the cable company boxes.


----------



## jwt0001

Since we're keeping lists of channels available in the Cleveland market, here are D*'s first new channels since the latest satellite launch:


DIRECTV - New HD channel rollouts:


286: Planet Green HD

311: ABC Family HD

541: Showtime Showcase HD

542: Showtime Extreme HD


They also added some more 24 hour HD regional sport networks, but not FSN Ohio or STO.


----------



## nickdawg

Yipee!! Now I'm definitely switching to D*!! I'd hate to have to watch ABC Family and Planet Green in SDTV!!!










So that' how D* is meeting their 100 HD Channel quota. Making a bunch of BS channels HD. Maybe Jewelry TV, QVC, CRTV and Celebrity Shopping are next!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14447594
> 
> 
> Yipee!! Now I'm definitely switching to D*!! I'd hate to have to watch ABC Family and Planet Green in SDTV!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that' how D* is meeting their 100 HD Channel quota. Making a bunch of BS channels HD. Maybe Jewelry TV, QVC, CRTV and Celebrity Shopping are next!



They are "rolling out" premium channels, which means you gotta pay more.


ABC Family as Kyle XY, that's a good show. But again, what good does it do you to have a whole bunch of channels you don't want to watch? It's just like most of the digital channels, I don't watch anything but Showtime right now. And of course the HD versions of TNT, USA. I don't even watch ESPN HD because the only thing I'm interested in is the Dodgers and they don't ever come on until 10:00 pm. I can't watch that because I'll stay up all night.


I want quality not quantity.


This is getting really scarry, nickdawg and I are starting to agree too much.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14448352
> 
> 
> This is getting really scarry, nickdawg and I are starting to agree too much.



Hey, I agree!! That's the reason why I don't switch. There's a few channels I want. I don't care about having 100 channels of crap. I've been with D* before and the cost and hassles are not worth it for the handful of channels I want. I'll just wait for cable.


The only ones I really want are USA and FX HD. They could add those two and never add another channel again and I'd be happy. USA is the rare channel because I actually like everything on it. I'd watch that one all the time. And there's FX for Rescue Me, NipTuck, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and the movies they show(which are often OAR!).


On my secondary list are channels like National Geographic, Discovery Networks Simulcasts and CNN and MSNBC HD(for Countdown w/Keith Olbermann). I like many of the documentaries they show and am disappointed when the "Also in HD" banner appears







. As for the news, why not have that in HD too







!


After that, I honestly don't give two s**ts. Add whatever they want. But in reality I want about 15 or 20 channels. No need for the 100. No need for useless channels. I have enough useless BS now with TWC. About the only channels I watch now are the local broadcast, the ESPNs and STO and USA HD. That's it. Occasionally I will watch FOOD or History(if it's not stretched). I've never even looked at HGTV for more than two minutes. I watched a CSI:Miami on A&E about a month ago and haven't looked at TNT since NBA Playoffs and TBS since MLB last fall. And Discovery HDT, waste of space. All they show is the same HD crap on a loop. That channel's only purpose is to demonstrate how "bright and flashy" HDTVs are in stores. They never have anything good like Dirty Jobs or simulcast of Shark Week from SD Discovery.


And don't even get me started on the HD Extra tier for $6.95! Big ripoff. I had it for one month and canceled. Only reason I ever had it was TWC Akron used to put ESPN HD in the extra tier. Once they started including it in the "Free HD", I dumped it. I kinda like Universal HD when they added it, but I couldn't justify the $6.95 a month. HD NET was pathetic. They showed old sitcoms that were canceled(usually from FOX). That and MOJO HD seemed like channels to watch "just for the fact they are HD". I'd rather watch something good in SD than crap in HD any day.


HD Channels I Want:

WKYCHD

WOIOHD

WEWHD

WUABHD

WBNXHD

WNEOHD

ESPNHD

ESPN2HD

ESPNUHD*

STO HD

USAHD

SCIFIHD*

FXHD*

Adult Swim HD*

Discovery HD*

National Geographic HD*

MSNBCHD*

CNN HD*

MHD*

MTV2HD*

Food HD

Spike TV HD*

-------------------

Channels TWC can SHOVE:

TNTHD

TBSHD

WVIZHD

Discovery HDT

The HD Tier

Cinemax/Starz HD

HD on demand


----------



## terryfoster

I also agree that it's not the quantity of HD channels you get, but the number of the channels that you would actually watch. The problem is that not everyone wants the same channels and so the variety tends to please more people.


The good news for me is that 82% of the channels I regularly watch are available in HD on D* against the 35% TWC offers locally.


----------



## rick490

Columbus, just switched to SDV. They added Discovery HD, History HD, and Palladia HD. They also added USA HD for the Olympics. For a week or so they were playing with startover, (one or two channels only) but I don't think its currently working. My daughter lives there and checked the diagnostic screen. SDV is now registering. I believe only the four channels above are SDV. I hope our market switches soon. It would be nice to have the lineup of say, Austin. Also I want TWC to make an agreement with nbc so we can get SciFi and USA permanently.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/14450113
> 
> 
> I hope our market switches soon. It would be nice to have the lineup of say, Austin. Also I want TWC to make an agreement with nbc so we can get SciFi and USA permanently.



I hope we get the USA and SciFi as well but right now we are not getting SciFi, at least not to my knowledge.


As far as Columbus getting SDV, they are an established TW area and not at all in the same situation we are in. After all, TWNEO has much more customers then Columbus (I would think).


As I have pointed out many times they will have to deal with the issue of the old Comcast boxes, which are Moto and the issue I believe they are having with converting SARA to Navigator.


If I mentioned this before I apologize but with the latest TiVo update I see on the diagnostic screen it now has "digital converter" which gives the TiVo the capability to have the digital converter added on for SDV. However I'm not sure if anyone has the digital converter anywhere yet, I know it has been completed but I don't know if it's in distribution.


----------



## jwt0001

Define "quality". The best you can do is define quality for you, which likely doesn't match quality for me. Thus variety is the best way to reach the most customers (including customers living in the same household).




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14448352
> 
> 
> 
> I want quality not quantity.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14447594
> 
> 
> So that' how D* is meeting their 100 HD Channel quota. Making a bunch of BS channels HD.



Ummm, DirecTV doesn't "make" any channel HD. Networks make them, and DirecTV has chosen to provide them, given their superior capacity (at the moment) to provide them.











One of the reasons I dropped WOW cable was because they didn't have the NFL Network HD live games. Plenty of people who aren't football fans wouldn't care about that, but I do. Each to his own.


What really makes me laugh is when I visit Comcast territory and they run their ads touting how they are the clear leader in HD over satellite. They've been running these ads for a long time, and it's blatant false advertising.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14450217
> 
> 
> Define "quality". The best you can do is define quality for you, which likely doesn't match quality for me. Thus variety is the best way to reach the most customers (including customers living in the same household).



Yes, what I like you may not like. And I see the point of why some may want a wide variety of choices but you have to look at how much TRUE HD you get on these channels and how much is just stretch o vision. One of nickdawgs big gripes with TBS and TNT.


Now the mere fact that TBS will have baseball playoffs in HD makes it a keeper for me. Also Sunday Afternoon baseball, I get to see some National League baseball from time to time and let's face it watching the Tribe is a little painfull. Kudos to them for the way they whupped Tampa Bay all season long. And they have done a great job of building a team of valuable players for other clubs.


FWIW I don't see much on the news about it but L.A.'s gone absolutely nuts over Manny Ramirez. They call it Mannymania and he's delivering. Dodgers are now tied with Arizona for first place.


TNT as I pointed out has some great drama and Holly Hunter in HD. That's a keeper. And a Closer.










One more point about having "100 channels of HD." Since TW is free to restrict copy on anything other then local broadcast channels and you use a DVR then many of these channels I wouldn't bother to watch because of disk space and the fact that I can't move them from one TiVo to another. But if you're a surfer, I can see why that would be perfect for you. I'm kind of a planner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14450473
> 
> 
> What really makes me laugh is when I visit Comcast territory and they run their ads touting how they are the clear leader in HD over satellite. They've been running these ads for a long time, and it's blatant false advertising.



Well, it's Comcastic!










Blatant false advertising, distortion of truth. I think they all engage that in some form but D* does it probably less then anyone. As far as Comcast, that's such an unbelieveable distortion of the truth you would think John McCain is their spokesperson.










Whoops, did I just say something wrong.


----------



## jwt0001

I'm NOT a surfer. It's just that I probably don't like the same channels as you. I heavily record National Geographic, Discovery, HDNet, and premium channel movies and shows. My fiancee watches USA, Food Network, and Spike. The only network shows I watch are Lost, 24, Survivor (going HD this season!), and Amazing Race (non-HD).


The only HD channel D* currently doesn't carry that I'm waiting for is Travel Channel HD. I'd also watch more of BBC America once it goes HD.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14450495
> 
> 
> But if you're a surfer, I can see why that would be perfect for you. I'm kind of a planner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14450525
> 
> *I'm NOT a surfer*. It's just that I probably don't like the same channels as you. I heavily record National Geographic, Discovery, HDNet, and premium channel movies and shows. My fiancee watches USA, Food Network, and Spike. The only network shows I watch are Lost, 24, Survivor (going HD this season!), and Amazing Race (non-HD).



I wasn't really suggesting that you were a surfer I was speaking in genral. But you're absolutely right. Hey, if we all liked the same things we'd have a boring world.


However I would make a suggestion: If you have Dolby 5.1 you may want to reconsider recording Survivor and AR in HD. First, this season of Survivor will be in HD this year. Second, even though AR is not it's still in Dolby 5.1 and you do get true Dolby sound.


----------



## jwt0001

I know. (I even mentioned that Survivor was going HD in my message!)




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14450763
> 
> 
> I wasn't really suggesting that you were a surfer I was speaking in genral. But you're absolutely right. Hey, if we all liked the same things we'd have a boring world.
> 
> 
> However I would make a suggestion: If you have Dolby 5.1 you may want to reconsider recording Survivor and AR in HD. First, this season of Survivor will be in HD this year. Second, even though AR is not it's still in Dolby 5.1 and you do get true Dolby sound.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14450495
> 
> 
> Yes, what I like you may not like. And I see the point of why some may want a wide variety of choices but you have to look at how much TRUE HD you get on these channels and how much is just stretch o vision. One of nickdawgs big gripes with TBS and TNT.
> 
> 
> Now the mere fact that TBS will have baseball playoffs in HD makes it a keeper for me.
> 
> ...
> 
> TNT as I pointed out has some great drama and Holly Hunter in HD. That's a keeper. And a Closer.



Neither TNT or TBS (but *especially* TBS) provide much "true HD" and are a part of the few networks that provide stretch-o-vision which seems somewhat contradictory to your point. Your reasons for making each of these channels "a keeper" shows that the quality of a channel does vary by each individual's expectations/needs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14451174
> 
> 
> Neither TNT or TBS (but *especially* TBS) provide much "true HD" and are a part of the few networks that provide stretch-o-vision which seems somewhat contradictory to your point. Your reasons for making each of these channels "a keeper" shows that the quality of a channel does vary by each individual's expectations/needs.



OK, I guess I really don't know what the other networks show in true HD but the point is I wouldn't watch them anyway so it doesn't matter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14450918
> 
> 
> I know. (I even mentioned that Survivor was going HD in my message!)



You sure did! I'm getting more and more like nickdawg. Missing things obviously posted. I think he's giving me a virus.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14454176
> 
> 
> You sure did! I'm getting more and more like nickdawg. Missing things obviously posted. I think he's giving me a virus.



I think it's called OLD...


----------



## Inundated

I hope Amazing Race goes HD at some point, though I suspect its unique issues will cause that not to happen soon. I know the upcoming season isn't in HD.


Re: "Start Over" - a friend of mine who lives in upstate New York with TWC gets it on his SARA box. I thought SARA didn't support it, but apparently, it can...?!?!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14454292
> 
> 
> I think it's called OLD...



Sadly, I agree. But I have a feeling nickdawg is younger then I am. No, it isn't the level of maturity shown in his posting, I'm probably even more juvenile. However his name nick*dawg*. That kind of indicates he's of a younger generation.


How much younger, I don't know. I think around 2000 one of the guys I worked with said "HOOK dog, what's goin' on?" And I was like "HOOK DOG?"


And yes, I did see your previous remark Smarty-pants.


----------



## hookbill

I just got done watching USA defeat Canada in a come from behind win. Probably taped yesterday, but it was fun to watch. It was on Universal HD.


Did you catch that one by any chance, Smarty-pants?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14459216
> 
> 
> I just got done watching USA defeat Canada in a come from behind win. Probably taped yesterday, but it was fun to watch. It was on *Universal HD.*
> 
> 
> Did you catch that one by any chance, Smarty-pants?



Let's not start that one again!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Well, I know this much...

For the last few days, all I have been hearing here is how you guys don't get what you want from TW. Lots of whining, bitching, moanig that "we should get these channels, but we don't, boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hooooo...".

To that I say quit your damn complaining. You get what you pay for and don't deserve any more. You're lucky to have what you do have. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else to get more HD.

Nuff said...


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14434840
> 
> 
> Anyone think we'll see more HD channels after the Olympics? Since we obviously have the capacity, why not? I see other areas in Ohio that have the same channels as we do(HGTV, Food, A&E, History) also have National Geographic and MHD. Once the Olympics end, there's going to two openings left by the temporary Basketball and Soccer channels.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14434859
> 
> 
> Honestly, I'd certainly hope so. Even if all they keep is USAHD, I'll be happy.
> 
> 
> Then again, every news piece has stated they're keeping them ONLY for the Olympics and then it immediately goes back to the previous lineup until further notice.
> 
> 
> Who knows with TW though.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14434904
> 
> 
> I did read before the server crash that one other Ohio system(Armstrong I think) added USA HD permanently. Plus it is available on Comcast, D* and possibly Cablevision. I'd have to check the master list in HDTV Programming.
> 
> 
> I honestly can't see why they won't add USA permanently. They made an agreement for the Olympics. Is it honestly that hard to make an agreement to carry the HD version of a network currently carried in SD? C'mon, TBS was on from the start. Plus TWC even filled in all the metadata for USA HD. It's not just listed generically as an Olympics channel. And a majority of TWC markets have added this channel, so it seems stupid and backwards to suddenly get rid of it. I'm hoping the whole thing about not promising USA is just required legal nonsense until progress is made. Just like nothing was said about WBNX at the beginning. I'd really like to see USA, SCIFI and the future MSNBC HD added.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14438680
> 
> 
> I'm not talking about SDV in this case. I'm talking about the two openings left by the Olympic Basketball and Soccer channels. We obviously have more capacity than we thought. Plus Time Warner has more channels. I don't see why we don't have the same channels as other areas if we have the capacity.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14439085
> 
> 
> TW is very tight with the purse strings. They don't want to pay the money out for more HD. If you thought they were simply "out of space" that's just not true. It's simply that they are cheap b#stards. Look at how long it took them to give us the CW and we were told that would be available on cable before OTA, but nope, not TW.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14439213
> 
> 
> That's what I don't get. Follow my link posted earlier to the Columbus lineup. They get what we have PLUS National geographic and MHD. It's not much, but with TWC even two channels are better, especially if they are true HD. I don't see how money affects adding these channels. Time Warner already has agreements with them. Why aren't they added here? Does it cost THAT much? C'mon. D* has been launching freaking satellites and TWC cannot add two channels.
> 
> 
> Flipping through the channels, I wanted to cry and scream when I saw what we get now. A bunch of stretchovision garbage!! TNT, TBS, A&E, FOod, HGTV, History! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! History HD had a STRETCHED LETTERBOX show on!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just stick the knife through my heart!!
> 
> 
> On a good note, I read the updated "More News About HD on TWC" thread and now USA/SCIFI/MSNBC are "in negotiations with TWC". The bad news is NFL and BigTen are in the same category
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Right now I can only hope that the fact USA has already been added to a majority of TWC systems will influence the decision to add it permanently. I cannot even imagine how many complaints TWC will be getting if USA suddenly goes away. It is the Number One Cable Network afterall!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14439474
> 
> 
> OMG they are actually posting this somewheres? "We are in negotiations" is what they were telling us when we were asking for the CW last November! That's what customer service says if you ask them.
> 
> 
> NFL and Big Ten will never meet TWC's terms which is they want them on their "sports tier." And personally I could care less about either one of them.
> 
> 
> However USA, yeah, I have a MAJOR problem with them pulling that rug out from under us.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14440476
> 
> 
> That's the other one I want, FX. I love Rescue Me along with the other shows and movies. Plus there's USA, which is unique because I actually like everything on USA. From original shows like In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Psych and Monk to the movies and repeats of Law & Order and WWE Monday Night RAW. On the other hand, I absolutely HATE TNT!! I don't even look at that channel unless it's NBA Playoffs time. The rest of the time, it's ignored at the dawg house. Their original programming is garbage and most of the movies and older shows are stretched. Same with TBS. Horrendous original programming and the good shows like King of Queens and Seinfeld are stretched and filled with bugs/snipes. And the mother lovers at TWC force those two s**t channels on us. Those are the channels I honestly wish they'd dump. I know, there are sports there but that's why we have the HD Bonus channel my friends!! Just like FSN Ohio. Get us some channels with REAL HD. Even Sportstime Ohio kicks these cable networks arses.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14449377
> 
> 
> The only ones I really want are USA and FX HD. They could add those two and never add another channel again and I'd be happy. USA is the rare channel because I actually like everything on it. I'd watch that one all the time. And there's FX for Rescue Me, NipTuck, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and the movies they show(which are often OAR!).
> 
> 
> On my secondary list are channels like National Geographic, Discovery Networks Simulcasts and CNN and MSNBC HD(for Countdown w/Keith Olbermann). I like many of the documentaries they show and am disappointed when the "Also in HD" banner appears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . As for the news, why not have that in HD too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> 
> 
> After that, I honestly don't give two s**ts. Add whatever they want. But in reality I want about 15 or 20 channels. No need for the 100. No need for useless channels. I have enough useless BS now with TWC. About the only channels I watch now are the local broadcast, the ESPNs and STO and USA HD. That's it. Occasionally I will watch FOOD or History(if it's not stretched). I've never even looked at HGTV for more than two minutes. I watched a CSI:Miami on A&E about a month ago and haven't looked at TNT since NBA Playoffs and TBS since MLB last fall. And Discovery HDT, waste of space. All they show is the same HD crap on a loop. That channel's only purpose is to demonstrate how "bright and flashy" HDTVs are in stores. They never have anything good like Dirty Jobs or simulcast of Shark Week from SD Discovery.
> 
> 
> And don't even get me started on the HD Extra tier for $6.95! Big ripoff. I had it for one month and canceled. Only reason I ever had it was TWC Akron used to put ESPN HD in the extra tier. Once they started including it in the "Free HD", I dumped it. I kinda like Universal HD when they added it, but I couldn't justify the $6.95 a month. HD NET was pathetic. They showed old sitcoms that were canceled(usually from FOX). That and MOJO HD seemed like channels to watch "just for the fact they are HD". I'd rather watch something good in SD than crap in HD any day.
> 
> 
> HD Channels I Want:
> 
> WKYCHD
> 
> WOIOHD
> 
> WEWHD
> 
> WUABHD
> 
> WBNXHD
> 
> WNEOHD
> 
> ESPNHD
> 
> ESPN2HD
> 
> ESPNUHD*
> 
> STO HD
> 
> USAHD
> 
> SCIFIHD*
> 
> FXHD*
> 
> Adult Swim HD*
> 
> Discovery HD*
> 
> National Geographic HD*
> 
> MSNBCHD*
> 
> CNN HD*
> 
> MHD*
> 
> MTV2HD*
> 
> Food HD
> 
> Spike TV HD*
> 
> -------------------





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14450173
> 
> 
> I hope we get the USA and SciFi as well but right now we are not getting SciFi, at least not to my knowledge.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14460579
> 
> *Let's not start that one again!*



^^^You can say THAT again...



































^^^


----------



## nickdawg

What was the point of all those quote?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14460775
> 
> 
> What was the point of all those quote?



See post 13945


----------



## nickdawg

While watching this morning's Olympic Basketball on the SA DVR







, I noticed WKYC redefined stupidity. Their crap generator was busier than ever cranking out crawls to tell me that "321 Penguins" is not on because of NBC's Olmpic coverage. Really? They have to _tell_ us this? Isn't it obvious, considering the NBC Olympic bug is in the corner and there are no penguins on screen? Not 321 penguins, not even ONE!! Then in the next hour, they do the exact same to tell us that "My Friend Rabbit" is not on and when it will be replayed. YIPPEE!! _I was like so disappointed that My Friend Rabbit wasn't on this week but then I was like so happy it will be on Tuesday at 2:30 PM._ Thanks WKYC!!! As if anyone gives a f*ck that these shows aren't on.


And, on top of that one. A few days ago(whenever we had severe weather, I forget) WKYC really took a stupid pill. Wish I had recorded it to post screenshots. They actually superimposed a colored box on the lower third of the screen to run the weather map/crawl. As if the usual map/crawl are not intrusive enough, now they need a g-damn box too! And here's the worst part, THEY DIDN'T SHOW IT ON THE SDTV CHANNEL!! HDTV viewers get the royal treatment of useless crap and SDTV gets nothing







. Nice one!


Just thought I'd share. What would this place be and who would I be without the occasional rants about bugs/snipes on screen?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14460579
> 
> 
> Let's not start that one again!



Yeah, I know I shouldn't have done it but it was like this unresistable urge. Hard as I tried I couldn't keep my hands off the keyboard.


It was the evil hookbill that did that. You see 2 heads are better then one, which means I'm a genious but unfortunately it comes with the multiple personality complex.

















Joni Mitchell, Court and Spark track 11.


But I was hoping Smarty-pants would be back to his good natured self again by now. And I always have this urge to stir the pot.


----------



## hookbill

As I said just having the opportunity to watch real baseball, played in the National League on TBS makes it a keeper in HD.


There were a few sound drops but the pq was perfect when Matt Kemp hit the first pitch of the bottom of the first into the seats. And with a runner on you could see with great clarity as Manny Rameriz, you guys remember him, hit a ball over the centerfield fence.


Then with a 5-1 lead and 1 out in the 9th Joe Torre brings in Chan Ho Park. As in Chan hit it out of the Park, which the Brewers did to tie the game.


But fortunately with a runner on in the bottom of the 9th Andre Eithier hit one out and the Dodgers won, all in HD, and the only game I've seen them win this year!


That makes it a keeper.


And the Dodger fans love Manny. There is a rumor they are going to change the sign from "Hollywood" to "Mannywood."


And for what it's worth Casey Blake has been hitting great since he's come over.


Thank You Cleveland. And Thank You TBS!!!!


Who needs the Olympics?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14464863
> 
> 
> As I said just having the opportunity to watch real baseball, played in the National League on TBS makes it a keeper in HD.



I'd never say TBS is a keeper, even at gunpoint







!! But I would definitely say TBS's coverage of MLB gets first priority on the HD Bonus Channel on Nickdawg Cable(when I start my own cable company







)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14461397
> 
> 
> Their crap generator was busier than ever cranking out crawls to tell me that "321 Penguins" is not on because of NBC's Olmpic coverage. Really? They have to _tell_ us this?



They might, actually. The programming you cite would all fall under the E/I (educational/informational) guidelines, which means it's programming that all stations are required to carry. (It's the same reason WKYC's NBC Weather Plus has to run "Weather University" for an hour each day.)


I have no doubt that the FCC E/I guidelines also require the station to notify viewers if the programming is preempted and moved.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14467855
> 
> 
> They might, actually. The programming you cite would all fall under the E/I (educational/informational) guidelines, which means it's programming that all stations are required to carry. (It's the same reason WKYC's NBC Weather Plus has to run "Weather University" for an hour each day.)
> 
> 
> I have no doubt that the FCC E/I guidelines also require the station to notify viewers if the programming is preempted and moved.



You're exactly right. It's an FCC requirement that preemption announcements for children's educational programming must run in the time period where the program usually airs.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/14467872
> 
> 
> You're exactly right. It's an FCC requirement that preemption announcements for children's educational programming must run in the time period where the program usually airs.



And here's some information on that from a prominent broadcast law firm:

http://wilmerhale.com/publications/w...blication=3525 



> Quote:
> The FCC expects that stations will air information about the substitute time slot at the time a preempted core program normally airs.



So, blame the FCC, not WKYC.


----------



## GregF2

Has anyone noticed that a lot TW's hd channels don't seem as crisp the last couple days? Seems like a lot of faint fuzz/macroblocking. I live in the Amherst market.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/14480186
> 
> 
> Has anyone noticed that a lot TW's hd channels don't seem as crisp the last couple days? Seems like a lot of faint fuzz/macroblocking. I live in the Amherst market.



No. I watched the news on FOX 8 live, it looked fine. I'm serviced by the Concorde head end.


If it keeps up have them to a truck roll to see if you hare getting proper signals.


----------



## sflong

I'm trying to watch the Olympics tonight and am noticing major breakups, pixelation and breaks in transmission on NBC. Switched over to ESPNHD and noticed similar. I haven't noticed it this bad before but will definitely keep an eye on it.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm watching Olympics right now and it looks fine. Just the usual macroblocking/breakup that is to be expected from NBC(as mentioned on the main Olympics thread).


Other than that, my picture is fine. Serviced by the Akron head end. If it's really bad, I'd say a truck roll is necessary.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14468009
> 
> 
> And here's some information on that from a prominent broadcast law firm:
> 
> http://wilmerhale.com/publications/w...blication=3525
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, blame the FCC, not WKYC.



After I posted, I thought about it and figure it must have something to do with the FCC. I remember this item from OMW last year about WKYC getting a hefty $10K fine for something ridiculous like not showing the message about reading the children's television reports. I could go off topic on this one as well, but I'll spare everyone. Instead I'll throw it out there how ridiculous this is. I remember reading about the new regulations a few years back that are responsible for the perma-bug stating a show is "E/I" on programming. I find the whole thing bulls... because once again we have ridiculous government rulings. I grew up in the early 90s. Back then there wasn't any of this nonsense. There was no "E/I" perma bug on programming. There wasn't even a network bug! I grew up fine. Everyone else did.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wikipedia* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> E/I, which stands for "educational and informative," refers to a type of children's television programming shown in the United States. The Federal Communications Commission requires that every broadcast station in the U.S. show at least three hours of these programs every week.
> 
> 
> In addition, stations must identify such shows on-screen with an "E/I" bug in a corner of the screen. Originally, this was displayed only during the first minute of the program, or, as a separate announcement prior to the show, but since 2004, all E/I shows must display the bug during the entire duration of the show, except during commercial breaks.



Guess WKYC was just trying to be safe and avoid another pointless fine. My apologies to WKYC. It's really pathetic that the FCC would require stations to show this garbage announcements over the Olympics. But then again, why am I surprised that the government is stupid!


----------



## nickdawg

I don't usually watch WVIZ SD or HD(since WNEO kicks their ass any day) but today I noticed flipping through channels that the multicast channels of WVIZ(363/364) are not on at all and WVIZ HD(411) is breaking up quite a bit. Even the SD digital feed is messed up. WVIZ SD Digital has grey, horizontal stripes through the picture. I know they've had issues in the past mentioned here before, but I thought I'd bring this one up as well.


----------



## ErieMarty

I had some problem with my TW. HD DVR Box last night and I had to call Time Warner to have them Re Boot my Box and while I was on the phone I asked about any new HD Channels being added and the person said they are close to adding the big 10 network by the end of the month.


Guess there has been meetings between the 2...


I asked would it be on basic or Digital and she said she didn't know.


I also asked about USA HD Staying and she said I was the 2nd one to ask about that tonight and she didn't have an answer


----------



## terryfoster

Remember, don't take anything a CSR says seriously. Yes, there have been meetings between TWC and BTN, but until a deal is announced, nobody knows if there will be a deal by the end of the month.


----------



## brh-z2

I have an SA8300 and wonder if there is a way to "remove" channels. There are so many duplicates now with the digital and analog groups as well as all the wonderful shopping channel, religious channels, music channels, etc. I would like to be able to remove these channels so that when I use the channel up/down I can only see the ones I want. I know you can put all of the channels you like in the favorites, but that only allows you to move in one direction - unless I'm missing somthing.


I really only want to "see" the HD (400's), 3-99 removing the the duplicates and shopping, the DVR channel and a very few off the channels between 100 and 399. Is there any way to do this?


Thanks.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/14484728
> 
> 
> I have an SA8300 and wonder if there is a way to "remove" channels. There are so many duplicates now with the digital and analog groups as well as all the wonderful shopping channel, religious channels, music channels, etc. I would like to be able to remove these channels so that when I use the channel up/down I can only see the ones I want. I know you can put all of the channels you like in the favorites, but that only allows you to move in one direction - unless I'm missing somthing.
> 
> 
> I really only want to "see" the HD (400's), 3-99 removing the the duplicates and shopping, the DVR channel and a very few off the channels between 100 and 399. Is there any way to do this?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



There isn't a way to "remove" channels, but there is a way to work around it. Set the channels you want to see as favorite channels. Then in Settings, under Display choose "Sort By Favorites"==>Favorites First. This puts all your favorite channels first in the guide and you can use the favorite channel button to skip the other channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14482604
> 
> 
> Remember, don't take anything a CSR says seriously. Yes, there have been meetings between TWC and BTN, but until a deal is announced, nobody knows if there will be a deal by the end of the month.




+1

You can repeat it until you're blue in the face, but there is always someone who will say "a CSR told me...."










That statement also applies to TiVo CSR's. And with a TiVo you can pick the channels you want and don't want. And you can have favorites too.


nickdawgs work around for the SA 8300 is fine, the reason TiVo does it is because many people use the "tivo suggestions" feature, and if it finds something that it thinks you might want you can eliminate the SD versions of these channels and it will record the HD version.


It also avoids recording programs on channels you may hate like female channels, religious channels, and other channels which I can't speak about because it is politically incorrect.


And yes, nickdawg I know you don't want no DVR telling you what to watch. I don't either, I don't use that feature. When I did years ago, before HD it would fill up with COPS. You would not believe how many different channels Cops is shown on. And every Law & Order. For me, I'll use the Futon Critic.


And just in case you're wondering if I did use it and it filled my disk up it would delete the suggested recordings or stop them if it needed disk space.


----------



## nickdawg

OK, Hook. Why would I need BOTH favorites and eliminated channels? I currently don't even have favorites set up. But I've always wanted an "eliminate channels" setting so I could get rid of the under 100 channels. The one thing that pisses me off about TWC is when they made the new lineup they didn't kill the "under 100" old channels on cable boxes. Why do I need MSNBC on 37 and 354? That doesn't make sense. Why make a new lineup and leave the old numbers on cable boxes?


Methinks someone has an obsession with police shows







!


With SA, a series recording made on a SD channel will record that SD channel. YOu have to specifically set it for the HD channel. I nuked my series recordings of "In Plain Sight" and "Burn Notice" on USA-201 and changed them to USAHD-450. The downside is my hard drive is almost full. Luckily the USA shows are the only HD shows I'm currently recording. If SDV comes to be here and we get good channels, I just might have to get an external hard drive.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14482567
> 
> 
> I had some problem with my TW. HD DVR Box last night and I had to call Time Warner to have them Re Boot my Box and while I was on the phone I asked about any new HD Channels being added and the person said they are close to adding the big 10 network by the end of the month.
> 
> 
> Guess there has been meetings between the 2...
> 
> 
> I asked would it be on basic or Digital and she said she didn't know.
> 
> 
> I also asked about USA HD Staying and she said I was the 2nd one to ask about that tonight and she didn't have an answer



I did find this over on the HDTV Forum. NFL/BTN and the NBCU networks are "negotiations in progress" with TWC. I tink we have a better chance of seeing NBCU networks than BTN or NFL. If we do get NFL and Big 10, they better be on the digital tier, NOT a tier that has an extra charge. There's already enough of these "extra charge channels"


Choice Tier=$5

Movie Tier=$5

Sports Tier=$5

HD Tier=$6.95


I do not have any of those packages and I refuse to pay extra for **** we should be getting anyway.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AndyHDTV* /forum/post/7244431
> 
> *Negotiations Known In Progress With TWC*
> 
> 
> NFL Network-HD
> 
> Big Ten Network-HD
> 
> IFC-HD
> 
> MavTV-HD
> 
> AMC-HD
> 
> WE-HD
> 
> FUSE-HD
> 
> Sci-Fi-HD
> 
> Bravo-HD
> 
> USA-HD --- (added temporarily for the olympics)
> 
> CNBC-HD --- (added temporarily for the olympics)
> 
> MSNBC-HD --- (Channel Launching in Q4 of 2008)
> 
> Chiller-HD --- (Channel Launching in 2008)
> 
> 
> *MPEG-4 TRANSCODING*
> 
> 
> Every TWC division has to install Transcoding equipment to convert MPEG-4 sent from programmers to MPEG-2 for broadcast (Programmers like HBO's Multiplex Channels will do MPEG-4)
> 
> It is currently unknown which TWC systems if any has done this yet.



I found the part about MPEG4 interesting because I saw something about the two temporary channels for the Olympics being broadcast in MPEG4. That means anyone carrying them has to have the MPEG4 to MPEG2 converters. We're getting them in NE Ohio, we may be MPEG4 capable. I add this to more evidence that SDV is in the near future, since many of the new networks are MPEG4.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14487313
> 
> 
> OK, Hook. Why would I need BOTH favorites and eliminated channels? I currently don't even have favorites set up. But I've always wanted an "eliminate channels" setting so I could get rid of the under 100 channels. The one thing that pisses me off about TWC is when they made the new lineup they didn't kill the "under 100" old channels on cable boxes. Why do I need MSNBC on 37 and 354? That doesn't make sense. Why make a new lineup and leave the old numbers on cable boxes?



You see nickdawg, TW thinks like you do.







So in their infinite wisdom they have grouped all these channels together! All you gotta do is look at the lineup. You want drama, it's all in one section.


But you see the poor people who don't have digital don't have all this "really cool" stuff grouped together so they had to make mirror channels for all of us digital folks.


Irritates the crap out of me, since on my menu it just list the channels and description of the shows. Like the other day when I was trying to figure out where in the heck MSNBC was at in the grouping. Of course I just went to the analog and used that one. I know 400's are HD. Somewhere I have a line up card, but if I want to find a show I can just punch it in with my remote.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14487313
> 
> 
> Methinks someone has an obsession with police shows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !



Yeah, well it keeps you on your toes, ya know. Like if the wife decides to take me out maybe I can get a clue because a lot of that stuff on L&O is based on real life things.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14487428
> 
> 
> I did find this over on the HDTV Forum. NFL/BTN and the NBCU networks are "negotiations in progress" with TWC. I tink we have a better chance of seeing NBCU networks than BTN or NFL. If we do get NFL and Big 10, they better be on the digital tier, NOT a tier that has an extra charge. There's already enough of these "extra charge channels"
> 
> 
> Choice Tier=$5
> 
> Movie Tier=$5
> 
> Sports Tier=$5
> 
> HD Tier=$6.95
> 
> 
> I do not have any of those packages and I refuse to pay extra for **** we should be getting anyway.



I agree.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14487313
> 
> 
> I found the part about MPEG4 interesting because I saw something about the two temporary channels for the Olympics being broadcast in MPEG4. That means anyone carrying them has to have the MPEG4 to MPEG2 converters. We're getting them in NE Ohio, we may be MPEG4 capable. I add this to more evidence that SDV is in the near future, since many of the new networks are MPEG4.



I don't know much about MPEG4 other then that D* uses it and eventually all cable companies will. But as far as SDV and "near future" you just keep on dreaming.


We will be the last people in the country to get SDV. There are still only a few areas in the country to be converted and as I have pointed out due to our situation there is no way we will get it until TW figures out what it wants to do with the Comcast boxes and SARA's little problem. And just because you're TW native, don't expect to get any privledges. The vast majority of their customers are ex Adelphia.


If what we were seeing on USA was "mpeg 4" or "converted mpeg4" it looks awful darn good on Universal.


And I'm going to predict, and this is a pure guess. Nobody has told me anything. USA will NOT go away. I hope.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14487428
> 
> 
> That means anyone carrying them has to have the MPEG4 to MPEG2 converters.



Well, except for DBS providers...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14487546
> 
> 
> You see nickdawg, TW thinks like you do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So in their infinite wisdom they have grouped all these channels together! All you gotta do is look at the lineup. You want drama, it's all in one section.
> 
> 
> But you see the poor people who don't have digital don't have all this "really cool" stuff grouped together so they had to make mirror channels for all of us digital folks.
> 
> 
> Irritates the crap out of me, since on my menu it just list the channels and description of the shows. Like the other day when I was trying to figure out where in the heck MSNBC was at in the grouping. Of course I just went to the analog and used that one. I know 400's are HD. Somewhere I have a line up card, but if I want to find a show I can just punch it in with my remote.



Notice I use the word "cable box" in there. The under 100 channels would still be there(GROAN) for those without boxes but those of us with boxes(or Tivos) would get the over 100 versions. The only thing TWC would HAVE to keep under 100 are 2-18(SD locals plus a few cable channels not repeated over 100) and channel 23 NEON. 19-22 and 24-100 would be gone, vanished, POOF!! There's no need for them, other than to enable those who don't want to learn new numbers.







If you're confused just tune to 100,200,300,400 or 600. Those 6 channels show a list of what channel genres are located where.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And I'm going to predict, and this is a pure guess. Nobody has told me anything. USA will NOT go away.



I hope you're right!! And I hope the new MSNBC and SCIFI HD will be added as well.


----------



## ErieMarty

the NFL Network in HD along with Big Ten Network in HD.. if TW added to a separate pay area


I would just drop one of my movie channels and pick that up.


but I agree it should be at the most on the Digital Side...and not a separate Pay package on top of paying for Digital channels..


what sucks is you can't have HBO without getting Digital...so it actually costs you more then the $9.95 per month for it..


----------



## nickdawg

I won't pay $5 more or even $1 more for any tier or package TWC tries to put these channels into. I think that has been the whole issue all along. TWC wants to put NFL and BTN in an extra package and the network wants standard digital coverage. I'm with the networks on this one. I want these channels on digital cable as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14488998
> 
> 
> what sucks is you can't have HBO without getting Digital...so it actually costs you more then the $9.95 per month for it..



I honestly can't say for certain but it seems to me that in order to get any premium channels you had to have a box. Now whether or not that box gave you HBO or Showtime, the only two I can remember initially. But you needed a box.


I'm pretty sure this was true when "cable ready" televisions evolved as well. But I think the box was just a decoder of some sort. Fiber Opitical cable wasn't even around until the mid 1990's.


I do remember that during the early years of pay per view one cable company you would have to go and get these things that attatched to your line before the box to unlock the signal. You had a 50/50 chance of them working, I remember gathering for PPV fights that cost 75.00 and we would all chip in and have a party. If the fight didn't come on we'd just complain about the crummy cable television and get drunk. I also remember that you could see HBO on cable ready channels but they were scrambled so you got straight sound but a warped picture.


I also seem to remember stories about cable installers who would be "cool" and would give you add on's at no charge with a wink and a nod type thing. They would do that on the pole.


That didn't require a box. But I don't remember if it was premium channels. And I think they usually did it for chicks.







I know nobody ever did that for me, despite the fact that I would bribe them with beer.


My point is that somehow, some way I think you ALWAYS paid for the box, at least one time and HBO was not that cheap back then. $25.00 a month if I recall. Price has come down. So even if you wern't paying for "digital," you were paying in another way.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14490149
> 
> 
> I also remember that you could see HBO on cable ready channels but they were scrambled so you got straight sound but a warped picture.



I can remember as a teenager tuning to the, uh, adult channel. I still had a set with the little push-in dials for fine-tuning the channels, and if you nudged it *just* right, you could get the green wiggly line to stay in one spot. Every once in a while you could clearly make out a body part.


I used to call it Picasso Porn.


----------



## pbarach

...is apparently the home for polka music in NE Ohio. They seem to be playing blurry video of polka dancing 12 hours a day. Nothing wrong with polkas if that's your thing, but---why of all things is this what they are running on the channel you MUST see every time you turn on the cable box? Is there a descendant of Frankie Yankovic in the control room??


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14490149
> 
> 
> I honestly can't say for certain but it seems to me that in order to get any premium channels you had to have a box. Now whether or not that box gave you HBO or Showtime, the only two I can remember initially "digitally" I don't know. But you needed a box.



The distinction I think that's being made is that not only do you need to rent the box, but you need to subscribe to the basic digital service. So you have to pay $5 for something you don't need or want just to get access to premiums. You need the box, but you don't need digital basic.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14490149
> 
> 
> I also seem to remember stories about cable installers who would be "cool" and would give you add on's at no charge with a wink and a nod type thing. They would do that on the pole.
> 
> 
> That didn't require a box. But I don't remember if it was premium channels.



What they would do at the pole was to remove a line filter which block extra channels. In Ann Arbor HBO was a filtered channel which could be unblocked by removing the filter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14490530
> 
> 
> The distinction I think that's being made is that not only do you need to rent the box, but you need to subscribe to the basic digital service. So you have to pay $5 for something you don't need or want just to get access to premiums. You need the box, but you don't need digital basic.



In regards to the quote I rewrote that one several times before I finally remembered that "digital cable" wasn't even available at that time so I should have pulled that statement out. However in regards to you saying you pay 5.00 more for something you don't want my point was back then HBO was much more expensive then it is today, box included. 25 bucks was a lot more money in 1980 then now.


----------



## hookbill

The Olympics arn't over and I see on the schedule that there are more games planned. But unfortunately I'm not getting USAHD at this time via TW. So either my cable cards arn't getting the hit or they are preparing us for the removal.










I see Olympic coverage scheduled after Psyche tonight. But right now I have a grey screen.


Anybody else in TW land getting non Olympic programs on USA HD?


Check that. I went and looked and it's back up. Must have been temporary. Recording Psyche in HD now.


----------



## Inundated

Is anyone else having major breakup problems on certain analog cable channels and their supposed digital lineup twins?


23, 27-30, 33-36, and many others above them, and whatever their upper channel dopplegangers are. The screen is in blocky pixels, that change every second or so.


I'm seeing this on both my digital SD box attached to the TiVo, and on the SA8000HD box in the loft. The HD channels are fine, and other analog channels not listed above (i.e. 31-32, 37-39, etc.) are perfect, so I don't think it's a signal problem on this end. Digital cable channels I know have been digital all along (i.e. ESPNU) are fine.


The breakups are happening on my analog cable without any box attached, either, same channels.


My only guess is that they've run into a problem trying to create digital SD simulcasts of analog channels.


The channels they've previously done this with, 3/5/8/19 (cable 4 in that last case) are flawless. But even the ones I know to be analog, and all channels below 23, are fine.


TWC's local channel, 23, is supposed to be doing a HS football game, but has a blank screen.


----------



## Inundated

Here's an example off CNN...a REAL example of "breaking (up) news"!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14504440
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having major breakup problems on certain analog cable channels and their supposed digital lineup twins?
> 
> 
> 23, 27-30, 33-36, and many others above them, and whatever their upper channel dopplegangers are. The screen is in blocky pixels, that change every second or so.
> 
> 
> I'm seeing this on both my digital SD box attached to the TiVo, and on the SA8000HD box in the loft. The HD channels are fine, and other analog channels not listed above (i.e. 31-32, 37-39, etc.) are perfect, so I don't think it's a signal problem on this end. Digital cable channels I know have been digital all along (i.e. ESPNU) are fine.
> 
> 
> The breakups are happening on my analog cable without any box attached, either, same channels.
> 
> 
> My only guess is that they've run into a problem trying to create digital SD simulcasts of analog channels.
> 
> 
> The channels they've previously done this with, 3/5/8/19 (cable 4 in that last case) are flawless. But even the ones I know to be analog, and all channels below 23, are fine.
> 
> 
> TWC's local channel, 23, is supposed to be doing a HS football game, but has a blank screen.



I'm also getting the blank screen on 23. But the other channels work fine. Can't say anything about analog, since I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels are already digital.


Maybe they're beginning to work on making all your channels digital(if you're former Adelphia). Just another clue to say SDV is coming soon.


----------



## nickdawg

USA HD is working fine. Must be the tivo that's responsible for that










I just watched Monk and Psych for the last time(in HD) EVER!!










Right now I'm watching House in spectacular HD.


Now Action Sports is on(in HD). Holy S...!! I'm canceling TWC if they drop this channel. USA HD is like the only HD channel I watch(other than ESPN and STO). The channels between 441 and 448 are complete ****. They absolutely suck. I hate them all!!


----------



## nickdawg

My friends, it' time for another Nickdawg local TV rant.


First off, WKYC. According to the TV schedule, tomorrow at 4pm "NFL Football" is on WKYC 3-1 from 4:00pm - 7:00pm. Yet at the same time, WFMJ 21-1 has two more hours of Olympic coverage from 4-6. You know, that event that comes ONCE every FOUR years







!! What is going to happen to these two hours of Olympic coverage? Will it be moved to 3-2 Weather Plus Channel? I hope so. I haven't found anything about it on wkyc.com of Frank Macek's blog. I'd hate to just see two hours of the Olympics gone.


The second incident is WEWS. Saturday night, my TWC guide is telling me that the film "Cinderella Man" will air from 8 to 11. I have also seen a commercial stating this. But TitanTV and abc.com have the movie "Madagascar" listed. WYTV 33-1 also has "Madagascar" listed. Unlike last time, I do not see it moved to a different time. I check later at night as well as Sunday afternoon and Monday early hours and it's nowhere to be found. What a shame! I wanted to see it in HD. And don't tell me to rent it, I want to see it in HD widescreen(not SD, already seen it). Thank god the Olympics are on. Makes it easier for me to ignore the crummy syndicated, SD movie.


That is all...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14504658
> 
> 
> I'm also getting the blank screen on 23. But the other channels work fine. Can't say anything about analog, since I don't have any analog channels. All of our channels are already digital.
> 
> 
> Maybe they're beginning to work on making all your channels digital(if you're former Adelphia). Just another clue to say SDV is coming soon.



Refresh my memory, please. How do you know all of your channels are digital? And if they are, are they converted digital? They would have to be since people without boxes still get analog.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14504672
> 
> 
> USA HD is working fine. Must be the tivo that's responsible for that



Not the TiVo, but I think it may have been one of the cable cards. I double checked both cards this morning and it was fine. Odd however, when I went upstairs and checked there was no problem, I turned on the TV downstairs waking my birds and got the grey screen, changed channels and then it was there.


I've seen this happen about 6 moths ago before with WEWS. I had to test daily for a couple of weeks then the problem stopped. I'd get a grey screen, flip to an analog channel then back to WEWS and it would work fine. I even had my headend person looking at it and she couldn't find a problem, but it was cable card related.


It's just another example of how cable cards can be trouble.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14504493
> 
> 
> Here's an example off CNN...a REAL example of "breaking (up) news"!



From time to time I've seen some break up on cable analog channels, but I don't ever recall seeing anything like that!







Was that taken when Obama announced his running mate? I started breaking up myself, in anger.


Now I'm thinking who do I want. I guy who tells lies, doesn't know how many houses he owns, however is a true American hero vs a guy who doesn't have enough sense to have realized that if he would have picked Clinton he would have had a sure victory.


I know the FBI may come knocking at my door, but there may come a time, soon, when we will have to take our country back.


Spoken like a true 60's hippie! John Lennon said on the White Album version of Revolution "but if you talk about destruction, don't you know that you can count me out - *in*."


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14505634
> 
> 
> From time to time I've seen some break up on cable analog channels, but I don't ever recall seeing anything like that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that taken when Obama announced his running mate? I started breaking up myself, in anger.



In any of this thinking...did you happen to turn on a TV hooked to Time Warner Cable and see if CNN was breaking up for YOU? Did anyone? Bueller?


CNN is still breakup city at this hour (just before 10 AM Saturday), as is CNN Headline News (35) and CNBC (36). It seems to be blocks of about 3 channels. MSNBC (37) and FNC (38) are fine.


I need SOMEONE on the TWC Cleveland (ex-Adelphia) system to see this problem and confirm it, so I have evidence when I call them up and try to prevent them from doing a truck roll and running me through the whole thing of checking my signal levels, etc...if it's just here, why would only certain blocks of channels have this problem, and why would others both analog and digital be flawless?


----------



## Inundated

OK, I'm a bit calmer now...


I picked up the phone and called a TWC CSR, and surprise, within about 2 minutes I had a CSR who told me the problem has been reported, and that they were aware of it and are working on it.


No offers to send a truck, no barrage of questions about my setup, equipment or cable boxes, no "did you check this and that"...just "we know about it and are working on it". They say there's some sort of outage, but didn't get more specific.


----------



## Inundated

And finally, it appears to be fixed.


----------



## hookbill

Interesting. I turned it on first thing this morning and I never had any problem with it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14507220
> 
> 
> Interesting. I turned it on first thing this morning and I never had any problem with it.



They didn't give many details - just said it was an "outage". I wonder if it was related to the specific node of the TWC/Cleveland system I'm on...which is fed out of Bath, I believe.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14507887
> 
> 
> They didn't give many details - just said it was an "outage". I wonder if it was related to the specific node of the TWC/Cleveland system I'm on...which is fed out of Bath, I believe.



Or it could be that the CSR just wanted to get you off the line so fed you a line of crap.







You know the rule, never believe anything a CSR tells you.


Actually I kind of think that they probably were truthfully with you. I'm sure they get monitored and just making something up would be cause for a severe wrist slapping.


I can't tell you how many times I have a customer say to me that a CSR said something to them of significance, and there is not even a note. Sure, sometimes the customer is lying or mistaking but you can kind of tell by certain key phrases that the customer says. Had it happen to me today, I was convinced the CSR told this Agent something and not a note on it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14507989
> 
> 
> Or it could be that the CSR just wanted to get you off the line so fed you a line of crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know the rule, never believe anything a CSR tells you.
> 
> 
> Actually I kind of think that they probably were truthfully with you. I'm sure they get monitored and just making something up would be cause for a severe wrist slapping.



Well, as it turned out, whatever kind of an "outage" was, it was their problem, they were aware of it, and they did fix it. That's all that matters to me. I don't really care of the details of the "outage".


I'm pretty sure they were getting other calls, since I did have to wait for about a minute on what I presume was a slow day for calls, and at least heard the "all of our representatives are busy" message once.


And the CSR was quickly forthcoming on the "we know about the problem and are working on it" line, and didn't once try to figure out if it was something requiring a truck roll...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14505619
> 
> 
> Refresh my memory, please. How do you know all of your channels are digital? And if they are, are they converted digital? They would have to be since people without boxes still get analog.



They all say Dolby 2/0 and there is that brief "delay" when tuning to the channel. Analog channels used to just "appear" and the digital(used to be over 100) always had a black screen, then appeared. Also, the PQ is better on most channels(except for under 15, the locals look like ****). Many of the channels like the ones in the 50s range had fuzz and lines in the picture on analog but now they're clear. And channels 70 and 74 never came in clear(due to interference) on analog and now they are also clear.The fact channels under 100 can be viewed without a box is independent of this. Analog and Digital have been coexisting here for almost two years. Either the source feed is digital and it is downconverted or it is analog and upconverted. Cable still sends out bandwidth-wasting analog feeds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14508063
> 
> 
> They all say Dolby 2/0 and there is that brief "delay" when tuning to the channel. Analog channels used to just "appear" and the digital(used to be over 100) always had a black screen, then appeared. Also, the PQ is better on most channels(except for under 15, the locals look like ****). Many of the channels like the ones in the 50s range had fuzz and lines in the picture on analog but now they're clear. And channels 70 and 74 never came in clear(due to interference) on analog and now they are also clear.The fact channels under 100 can be viewed without a box is independent of this. Analog and Digital have been coexisting here for almost two years. Either the source feed is digital and it is downconverted or it is analog and upconverted. Cable still sends out bandwidth-wasting analog feeds.



I've noticed improved pq on analog since I got my tivo, but it looked to me like as of late it was even more improved. So I just checked to see if we are getting digital feed. No such luck!


I'm pretty sure that they are upconverting analog to digital since we are still getting analog.


This is all kind of interesting, I agree with you that channels under 15 do not give the same appearance as those above! And mine are analog, still PCM 48. I wonder what's up with that?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14508022
> 
> 
> And the CSR was quickly forthcoming on the "we know about the problem and are working on it" line, and didn't once try to figure out if it was something requiring a truck roll...



Yes, I think in this case they were being honest. Must have been a problem at your headend.


----------



## nickdawg

Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14508526
> 
> 
> Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!!



B**ch, b**ch, b**ch! You could have watched the womens basketball win the gold on one of the other channels. There was baseball on FOX and wrestling on another Olympic channel. There was also Little League baseball in HD.


Stop being such a baby, geeze. And of course the Browns got their butts kicked.


Once again what do L.A. and Cleveland have in common? Neither has a professional football team










It's only pre season and WKYC has a contract to show the Browns games. They had no choice.


The only thing that bugs me about it is on the news all we're going to hear about is Romeo sucks and he should be fired, like he's the one playing. Let's wait until they suck in the regular season then fire Romeo, because on paper they should have a decent team.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14508526
> 
> 
> Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!!



It's a typical WKYC thing. Last Spring they ran Indians games over the Stanley Cup and look where the Indians are now.


----------



## nickdawg

And that's what pisses me off about WKYC. Why didn't they move the Olympics to the Weather Plus channel? That is supposed to be the upside of multicasting, one station broadcasts two separate channels. Why not use it for good? But no, WKYC wasn't smart enough to do that. That makes too much sense! And it continues. I see Monday WKYC id dumping new NBC programming for the Indians. I don't mind that time because the program being dumped is that dreadful new reality show "America's Toughest Jobs", an awful ripoff of the excellent Discovery Channel/Mike Rowe show "Dirty Jobs". But I'm a little pissed that Deal or No Deal is at 2 in the morning







!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/14508577
> 
> 
> It's a typical WKYC thing. Last Spring they ran Indians games over the Stanley Cup and look where the Indians are now.



It's not like they have a choice. They have a contract with the Indians too. They are not an NBC owned station so they do not have to show what's on the network.


I went to a hockey game once. Had a great time, went with 5 girls to a L.A. Kings game. Didn't understand a darn thing about what was going on but these girls brought in some brandy and I had a great time! Tried to get into hockey after that but never could.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14508611
> 
> 
> Why didn't they move the Olympics to the Weather Plus channel?



Don't know, but I'm guessing that the since the weather channel is in sd that could be one reason. The other reason is just to piss you off.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Thanks WKYC! Now I get to see Indians in HD.










Actually, the anger should be falling on TW if anyone. Since they should have an "alternate" NBC station available to watch for when WKYC is not showing national NBC content. Untill just recently, since TW clened up the QAM, I WAS actully getting THREE different NBC stations. Yes, three. There was WKYC-HD and weather+. Then in digital sd, there were to more affiliates. You could probably guess what they were. I can't really remember....but ya, they were there. So those stations are IN the system. All TW has to do is open them up.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14508611
> 
> 
> ...that dreadful new reality show "America's Toughest Jobs", an awful ripoff of the excellent Discovery Channel/Mike Rowe show "Dirty Jobs".



Another Dirty Jobs fan here. That man is absolutely fearless, and so is his crew.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14508917
> 
> 
> Thanks WKYC! Now I get to see Indians in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the anger should be falling on TW if anyone. Since they should have an "alternate" NBC station available to watch for when WKYC is not showing national NBC content. Untill just recently, since TW clened up the QAM, I WAS actully getting THREE different NBC stations. Yes, three. There was WKYC-HD and weather+. Then in digital sd, there were to more affiliates. You could probably guess what they were. I can't really remember....but ya, they were there. So those stations are IN the system. All TW has to do is open them up.



The fact that they can do it doesn't mean they are allowed to do it.


It's kind of like a black out situation. Now I'm no legal eagle but I gotta believe that there is a clause in that contract with the Browns and the Tribe that prohibits them from broadcasting something else. Therefore the only ones who would be able to see this would be people who have QAM and can see these signals.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14509037
> 
> 
> The fact that they can do it doesn't mean they are allowed to do it.
> 
> 
> It's kind of like a black out situation. Now I'm no legal eagle but I gotta believe that there is a clause in that contract with the Browns and the Tribe that prohibits them from broadcasting something else. Therefore the only ones who would be able to see this would be people who have QAM and can see these signals.



What Hookbill said. Therfe are a lot of rules sorrounding retransmission consent, and an operator can't just drop in another network affiliate on a whim.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14508635
> 
> 
> Don't know, but I'm guessing that the since the weather channel is in sd that could be one reason. The other reason is just to piss you off.



I'd take SD Olympics over losing Clowns any day! Somebody has done this before. Maybe WKYC or WOIO. I remember having other programming shown on the digital subchannel. Once during severe winter weather WOIO has their 19 Action News simulcast on 19-2.


Continuing the tradition...


Thanks WEWS! Now I get to see Cinderella Man in digital widescreen!! So much better than ABC HD's "Madagascar" in HD. Bravo, Bravo! Soon as WYTV-DT goes full power...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14508917
> 
> 
> Thanks WKYC! Now I get to see Indians in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the anger should be falling on TW if anyone. Since they should have an "alternate" NBC station available to watch for when WKYC is not showing national NBC content. Untill just recently, since TW clened up the QAM, I WAS actully getting THREE different NBC stations. Yes, three. There was WKYC-HD and weather+. Then in digital sd, there were to more affiliates. You could probably guess what they were. I can't really remember....but ya, they were there. So those stations are IN the system. All TW has to do is open them up.



NO! What you were seeing is a digital simulcast of the same thing.


3-1_WKYC DT1

3-2_WKYC DT-2-WX Plus


Then there's also channel 3 in analog for TVs without boxes and a digital SD version of WKYC for TVs with boxes. They may have put that digital SD version in the clear as well. All three of these "WKYCs" would have the same programming. The only solution is to aim that antenna towards Youngstown.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14508526
> 
> 
> Thanks, WKYC!! For canning the Olympics so we can watch the Cleveland Clowns get mauled by the Detroit Lions!!!



Was the game SD or HD?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14509453
> 
> 
> NO! What you were seeing is a digital simulcast of the same thing.
> 
> 
> 3-1_WKYC DT1
> 
> 3-2_WKYC DT-2-WX Plus
> 
> 
> Then there's also channel 3 in analog for TVs without boxes and a digital SD version of WKYC for TVs with boxes. They may have put that digital SD version in the clear as well. All three of these "WKYCs" would have the same programming. The only solution is to aim that antenna towards Youngstown.



Nope!... they were different NBC stations. Different call letters, different news, different local commercials, ect... ect...

I remember clearly watching one of them on Saturday mornings because there were no "Saturday morning cartoons" on for my kids because wkyc was all infomercials







. The other NBC affiliates had some cartoons on. I also had an extra ABC network too, but no extra CBS. I think the one NBC station was down near Wheeling WV, can't remember where the other one was from. I think I had the channels for at least 6 months, maybe a year. Since TW started organizing and cleaning up the QAM stuff several months ago, those stations are now gone.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/14509482
> 
> 
> Was the game SD or HD?



HD. Not bad for a local production. If you've seen Sportstime Ohio, the graphics looked similar to that. WKYC usually does good work on local sports, unfortunately the teams don't match the quality of the production







.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14509538
> 
> 
> Nope!... they were different NBC stations. Different call letters, different news, different local commercials, ect... ect...
> 
> I remember clearly watching one of them on Saturday mornings because there were no "Saturday morning cartoons" on for my kids because wkyc was all infomercials
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The other NBC affiliates had some cartoons on. I also had an extra ABC network too, but no extra CBS. I think the one NBC station was down near Wheeling WV, can't remember where the other one was from. I think I had the channels for at least 6 months, maybe a year. Since TW started organizing and cleaning up the QAM stuff several months ago, those stations are now gone.



Then I honestly don't know. TWC works in mysterious ways. On the Navigator's "new advanced search feature" I've seen listings for "NBC 24 News" and "10 News HD" and "First News AM" but when I press Select it just says no upcoming airings of this show. So the data is in the system for the various different affiliates in the NE Ohio system. They could realistically have crossed some wires and sent other channels through here.


After the Navigator change over, some of the metadata on older recordings was messed up. Several shows said channel "65535" and a few episodes of "Rob & Big" from MTV2 said they were recorded on "WYFX-DT", according to the guide(???)!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14509572
> 
> 
> HD.



Hmmm. On Comcast in Detroit, we got it in SD, in real time on NFL Network SD, and then after the game was over it was on a local station in SD.


But, NFL Network HD was blacked out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/14509629
> 
> 
> Hmmm. On Comcast in Detroit, we got it in SD, in real time on NFL Network SD, and then after the game was over it was on a local station in SD.
> 
> 
> But, NFL Network HD was blacked out.



The Browns have a contract with WKYC to show their preseason games. I don't know what the situation is for the Lions as far as local pre season broadcast but it would seem strange that a local channel would not have signed for the rights. Then again I don't know how big football is in Detroit as compared to Cleveland.


Usually in most major cities one channel signs the rights to carry the local broadcast. Obviously WKYC didn't want to use the crummy NFL channel broadcast and went in with their own equipment. So nobody in Detroit has rights to Lions preseason? Very odd.


Still the fact that NFL Network carried the broadcast and local channels were blacked out until after the broadcast seems strange. However the fact that NFL Network didn't carry it in HD doesn't surprise me at all. The short time it was around here I didn't see a heck of a lot of HD games anyway.


And when you say it was "blacked out" are you saying you couldn't even get the SD with sidebars? That's simply comcrapstick!


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14508618
> 
> 
> It's not like they have a choice. They have a contract with the Indians too. They are not an NBC owned station so they do not have to show what's on the network.
> 
> 
> I went to a hockey game once. Had a great time, went with 5 girls to a L.A. Kings game. Didn't understand a darn thing about what was going on but these girls brought in some brandy and I had a great time! Tried to get into hockey after that but never could.



WKYC only shows a few baseball games each season, they should have known about NBC's Stanley Cup schedule before they chose what baseball games they would broadcast. Likewise they and the NFL should have been aware of the Olympics!


----------



## ErieMarty

staying or going after today when the Olymipics are over.


I don't watch much on there but if they can have it on during the Olympics why can't they keep it on there as another option for their HD customers


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/14511508
> 
> 
> WKYC only shows a few baseball games each season, they should have known about NBC's Stanley Cup schedule before they chose what baseball games they would broadcast. Likewise they and the NFL should have been aware of the Olympics!



Let's see, was Cleveland in the Stanley Cups? OMG, Cleveland doesn't have a team in the NHL!










Point taken. But here's the thing. Ask me if I would rather watch the Tribe, as bad as they are, or a Hockey game, I don't care if it is the Stanley Cup I'll watch the Tribe.


You're under the assumption that more people would watch the Stanley Cup then the Tribe, who at that time was still at least "considered" to be a possible contender. And heck, how was WKYC going to know that the Tribe was going to suck at the time of the Stanley Cup?


When did hockey come back, wern't they gone for like two years?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14511512
> 
> 
> staying or going after today when the Olymipics are over.
> 
> 
> I don't watch much on there but if they can have it on during the Olympics why can't they keep it on there as another option for their HD customers



Who knows? But this may be a good time to play the Steve Fry card. Simply say it would be unfair for them to pull it now that we all got use to it.


Anyway if you send Steve Fry an email you will get a true answer to your question, not from Mr. Fry himself but probably from one of the higher ups. It will be better then asking a CSR.


I'll be sending mine right after lunch!









[email protected]


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14511512
> 
> 
> staying or going after today when the Olymipics are over.
> 
> 
> I don't watch much on there but if they can have it on during the Olympics why can't they keep it on there as another option for their HD customers



Oh boy. Here we go again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14511681
> 
> 
> Oh boy. Here we go again.



Now what the heck do you mean by that?










Lunch is over:


Dear Mr. Fry,


Please tell me that you are not going to pull USA in HD now that the Olympics are over. That's so unfair to your customers, it's like dangling a piece of meat in front of a hungry dog and pulling it away!


OK, maybe not that bad but you get my point. What with Direct TV literally kicking the you know what out of you in HD selections please don't pull this. We deserve more HD as well, and yes, I know in time about SDV and all that but you and I both know that's not right around the corner.


I'd like to set up my Season Passes on my TiVo to certain shows on USA, so can you at least let me know if you are going to make it a keeper?


Thanks for listening,


hookbill,

acct#,

phone number


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14511681
> 
> 
> Oh boy. Here we go again.



Indeed. Everyone seems to want something for nothing now-a-days.


----------



## Inundated

OK, let's clear up a few misconceptions right now.


1) Hookbill is correct. WKYC has a contract with the Browns and with the Indians to carry their games. There are four pre-season Browns games this year, and only the Giants game was carried by a national carrier (ESPN).


2) To that effect, the NFL Network broadcast of the Browns/Lions game wasn't the primary broadcast. NFL Network actually rebroadcasts local games in pre-season, and doesn't actually produce the pre-season games. A couple of years ago, when the former Adelphia had NFL Network, I actually saw a Browns pre-season game with a New York team (think it was the Giants), and the telecast was produced by the New York CBS O&O.


Of course, NFL Network does produce its own games in the regular season, but not in pre-season.


I don't know which telecast NFL Network picked up for Browns/Lions, but they didn't produce it. I don't know who does the Lions pre-season games in Detroit, but the locally produced Browns pre-season games are in HD on WKYC/3.


3) In what world does NBC allow WKYC to air the Olympics on Weather Plus? In what world do the Browns allow them to air the game on Weather Plus?


Typically, if the game is moved at all, it would be moved to another local over-air outlet. This just happened last night in Baltimore, where NBC affiliate and Ravens pre-season carrier WBAL/11 aired the Olympics, and ABC affiliate WMAR/2 carried the game.


WKYC apparently decided to bump 3 hours of the Olympics coverage instead of working out a deal with another station to air Browns/Lions.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14511758
> 
> 
> Indeed. Everyone seems to want something for nothing now-a-days.



ROFLOL, Smarty-pants! Hey if we get this you benefit as well you know!


Like you got room to talk!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ROFLOL, Smarty-pants! Hey if we get this you benefit as well you know!



How's that?














> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like you got room to talk!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14511775
> 
> 
> OK, let's clear up a few misconceptions right now.
> 
> 
> 1) Hookbill is correct.



'nuff said!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14511775
> 
> 
> 3) In what world does NBC allow WKYC to air the Olympics on Weather Plus? In what world do the Browns allow them to air the game on Weather Plus?



That happens in nickdawgs world.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14511775
> 
> 
> WKYC apparently decided to bump 3 hours of the Olympics coverage instead of working out a deal with another station to air Browns/Lions.



I suppose that is true if you are on basic cable, but this town is a football town, I'm here to tell you! I mean it's a big time football town. I still don't understand why the original Browns moved. And for the average Joe in this area more people want to see the Browns. Fans here are passionate for this team. It sells out even when they lose.


Look at L.A. We had two football teams. We had the Raiders when they won a Super bowl and I think in all the years the Raiders were there maybe two home games were televised. They couldn't sell out that monstrosity known as the L.A. Coliseum, and if there was ever a bad place for sports that's got to be one of the worst.


So absolutely WKYC shows the Browns over whatever they had on the Olympics. Even a meaningless preseason game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14511849
> 
> 
> So absolutely WKYC shows the Browns over whatever they had on the Olympics. Even a meaningless preseason game.



Agreed. The Browns are 1, 1A and 1B in this market, and the Indians and Cavaliers have to fight over 2. Always has been, and interest in the team is at a new high because of their success last year. Let's hope they remember how to win again when the games start counting...


I was looking into the Ravens (spit) situation, and the Olympics on WBAL (normal Ravens carrier) outdrew the Ravens on temporary-home WMAR by a large margin.


However, the Ravens game likely contained a lot of local spots, and that's a lot of money for WBAL (which still produced the game).


WKYC is very serious about its sports contracts, and I can see why they didn't move the game. And as such, it didn't compete with their own Olympics coverage. I'd assume NBC would not allow the Olympics to be moved to another station no matter WHAT the situation was.


They were fortunate with the pre-season schedule that only one game ran into the Olympics, due to the Giants game being on ESPN...and WJW already bought the (separate) rights to air it locally.


----------



## hookbill

I just took a little look at the crystal ball known as www.zap2it.com . It shows USA HD on for tonight and into the late night/early morning, however there are no listings for Monday night. Not just no listings, no channel. Which means more then likely this is the last night.


----------



## ErieMarty

anyone else seeing it not in HD today and not in full screen like all the other HD Channels are


maybe this is a sign..that USA is going Bye Bye


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14513353
> 
> 
> anyone else seeing it not in HD today and not in full screen like all the other HD Channels are
> 
> 
> maybe this is a sign..that USA is going Bye Bye



Did you not read the post above your's?







Yes, they are taking it away.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14513399
> 
> 
> Did you not read the post above your's?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they are taking it away.



MY BAD................


and you wonder why TW is losing customers


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14513353
> 
> 
> anyone else seeing it not in HD today and not in full screen like all the other HD Channels are
> 
> 
> maybe this is a sign..that USA is going Bye Bye



They were doing that yesterday as well. I think the Law & Order CI episodes just weren't HD for some reason. SVU episodes, movies, Psych and Becker were all HD later on as well as Olympics.


Why are you such a buzzkill, Hookbill? Don't always take those online sources as 100% accurate. Titan TV thinks TWC Akron is still on the old lineup. None of the new channels are there. Navigator gives me USA HD listings through this week. Only the Olympic channels say "Sign Off". And Universal HD channel is still turned on.


----------



## cerickson99

Hello All,


I would love to turn off the TWC box and go to an OTA setup and have been trying to get a good setup.. I installed a rooftop antenna, went to Antenna Web etc. Some of

the channels come in fine but others have severe dropouts and cannot get signal lock.


WJW-DT (FOX), WEWS (ABC) and WBNX are our favorites and they are the problem ones.


Will this get better when the stations shut off their Analog broadcasting?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14513815
> 
> 
> Why are you such a buzzkill, Hookbill? Don't always take those online sources as 100% accurate. Titan TV thinks TWC Akron is still on the old lineup. None of the new channels are there. Navigator gives me USA HD listings through this week. Only the Olympic channels say "Sign Off". And Universal HD channel is still turned on.



Hey, I hope I'm wrong. But here's the thing. Tribune Media is the source of what is listed on my TiVo. The fact that the channel disappears completely on Monday leads me to believe that TWNEO has informed them that it won't be on.


I'm glad to hear however that your schedule indicates something different! I can only go by what I see. So here's hoping you're schedule is correct!


I'm more inclined to go with what you see since it's more of a direct source, but we won't know until tomorrow. And it may be when I look at zap2it.com, or even my schedule upstairs maybe I'll see additonal programming.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14514778
> 
> 
> Hey, I hope I'm wrong. But here's the thing. Tribune Media is the source of what is listed on my TiVo. The fact that the channel disappears completely on Monday leads me to believe that TWNEO has informed them that it won't be on.
> 
> 
> I'm glad to hear however that your schedule indicates something different! I can only go by what I see. So here's hoping you're schedule is correct!
> 
> 
> I'm more inclined to go with what you see since it's more of a direct source, but we won't know until tomorrow. And it may be when I look at zap2it.com, or even my schedule upstairs maybe I'll see additonal programming.



Check your on-screen guide on Tivo. My SA box let me schedule recordings for Becker at 6AM and a remonder for WWE Raw. I'm really scared tonight.


----------



## nickdawg

Also, USA HD is showing HD right now. I checked a while back and the L&O was HD. They did the same thing with the CI episodes Saturday afternoon. Don't know why. I've already made peace with USA HD and the fact this may be the last time I ever get to see Monk, Psych, L&O and Burn Notice in HD. Oh well, back to ignoring ANY channel over 435


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14514836
> 
> 
> Check your on-screen guide on Tivo. My SA box let me schedule recordings for Becker at 6AM and a remonder for WWE Raw. I'm really scared tonight.



I checked my guide screen. Now let me explain, as I said TiVo gets it's guide data from Tribune Media (zap2it.com).


However after looking at the guide itself, I'm happy to tell you that I see USAHD all the way out to 9/5!


It's not the first time the two guides haven't exactly matched up, so I am willing to bet that TW worked something out with USA HD.


----------



## nickdawg

I hope so. I checked the HDTV page, nobody's updated the "More News About HD on TWC" thread recently. I know TWC is a bunch of evil bastards, but I don't think they could be _that_ evil! Could they? I've already changed all my recordings for USA to channel 450(from 201). The only downside of more HD is hard drive space. My SA box is almost full. (insert stock "Tivo's hard drive is massive and crushes SA" phrase here







)


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14514457
> 
> 
> Will this get better when the stations shut off their Analog broadcasting?



Unfortunately I think the answer is no. This is the big problem with digital. If you get a poor signal OTA, you get nothing. Analog, on the other hand you can at least get a fuzzy picture. This will be the problem with OTA and play right into the cable mongers hands after the cutoff. People will be so dissapointed with the "quality" of their digital signal OTA they'll have to get cable. I've tried to do digital stations only OTA, but every once in a while, the signal is so bad, I just have to revert to watching the analog signal just to get something decent. Once that's not there, "Get cable" will be the cry from the wife and kids. Not something I want to do after hearing all the stories about TWC.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/14515024
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I think the answer is no. This is the big problem with digital. If you get a poor signal OTA, you get nothing. Analog, on the other hand you can at least get a fuzzy picture.



Hookbill and I have gone around about this, and I'l still disappointed in the lack of information on those national DTV spots about the need for a good antenna - maybe even a rooftop antenna with an antenna rotor.


----------



## nickdawg

Dateline: 12:53 AM, August 25, 2008: The mother****ers at Time Warner shut off USA. Right in the middle of ****ing Law & Order Criminal Intent. Seven minutes were left and I didn't get to see them. I know they came for USA because every other worthless **** channel around it still works. Just not USA. Thanks a lot!!! Thanks you worthless bastards!!! I think it's time to cancel TWC...


And one more thing,
UNIVERSAL HD IS STILL ON!!! TURN IT OFF!!!! THANK YOU!!


----------



## Vchat20

Prompt little f*ckers, aren't they?


Who knows, maybe it's just a glitch and will be back? Cause all I get is a blank screen and not a telltale message like 'this channel is unavailable' or 'tune to the SD channel' or something of that sort. Though that gets filed under W for Wishful Thinking around these parts.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14515818
> 
> 
> Prompt little f*ckers, aren't they?
> 
> 
> Who knows, maybe it's just a glitch and will be back? Cause all I get is a blank screen and not a telltale message like 'this channel is unavailable' or 'tune to the SD channel' or something of that sort. Though that gets filed under W for Wishful Thinking around these parts.



Are you former Adelphia or original Time Warner? I too hope it's a mistake. The one Olympic channel (451) is still on but Soccer on 452 is off. I'm hoping they really meant to turn off 451 and 452 but got 450 by mistake.


----------



## Vchat20

Original TW here. I haven't checked the other channels they added. I only wandered to USAHD and immediately flipped out once I saw what I was fearing.


----------



## nickdawg

I loved that channel!! It was the only cable HD channel I watched other than ESPN or STO. I don't care about TNT or TBS at all. Same goes for HGTV. I've only watched CSI: Miami a few times on A&E. I did like History and Food until they stopped identifying HD programs in the guide. Plus History has a bad habit of stretching and letterboxing shows that are supposed to be HD. And I can count the number of times I've watched Discovery HDT in two years on one hand. The same worthless shows on a loop. I'd rather have the simulcast of regular Discovery in HD. One thing I've noticed is TWC loves channels that stretch content. I hate that. So much for thinking like I think.


----------



## Vchat20

Seriously. USA and Discovery are about the only two channels that have REALLY good original programming. USA has Monk, Psych, In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Starter Wife. Then you have the L&O series in all it's OAR glory which would still be considered 'original' programming under it's parent company. And Discovery has stuff like Mythbusters, Dirty Jobs, and Deadliest Catch to name a few. Mind you EVERY one of these shows are native OAR HD.


Then you have channels like TNT, TBS, and A&E which usually end up 'round the clock reruns of old syndicated garbage in gloriuos stretch-o-vision. About the only times I give leeway is when either TBS or TNT have movies running which are usually good about either being native HD or a REAL good dvd upscale.


Then again, I guess I shouldn't be too upset. My brother in Columbus on WOW has a buttload of HD channels, but still no Discovery or USA there either.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Sucks when you don't get something that you think you deserve eh?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14515981
> 
> 
> Sucks when you don't get something that you think you deserve eh?



Don't even start, little dude!







I'm in no mood.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14516037
> 
> 
> Don't even start, little dude!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in no mood.



Just walk on right past the pigpen, nick.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14515914
> 
> 
> About the only times I give leeway is when either TBS or TNT have movies running which are usually good about either being native HD or a REAL good dvd upscale.



The only good movie shown by TNT was the old "Wizard of Oz", which they surprisingly showed in 4:3 OAR. Who would've thunk TNT could do 4:3? Of course commercials were still stretched and the bug was hanging out of the 4:3 window, but still, truly shocked they didn't trash a classic.


The rest of the movies are 16:9 cut bastardized movies. They still crop the upper and lower bars off 2.35:1 films. I do give TNT a look during BNA season since NBA on TNT is correct HD. Although I think the graphics are stretched 4:3 graphics on the HD channel since the scoreboard and other graphics are outside the 4:3 area. That's a good indicator of stretchovision.


----------



## nickdawg

As of right now, 3:05 AM, USA and the two Olympic channels are gone. POOF!! Nowhere to be found. It's like they never existed. All my recordings in the DVR menu now say "USAHD●65535". No recorded shows were deleted and no series recordings were canceled, even though the channel no longer exists. I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow. The ****'s gonna hit the fan!!


----------



## Vchat20

Also, I just took the (excruciating) time to reboot the box here and, indeed, USAHD and the 2 Olympics channels are gone from the guide. :/


EDIT: nick beat me to it by a whole minute.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14514457
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> 
> I would love to turn off the TWC box and go to an OTA setup and have been trying to get a good setup.. I installed a rooftop antenna, went to Antenna Web etc. Some of
> 
> the channels come in fine but others have severe dropouts and cannot get signal lock.
> 
> 
> WJW-DT (FOX), WEWS (ABC) and WBNX are our favorites and they are the problem ones.
> 
> 
> Will this get better when the stations shut off their Analog broadcasting?



I live 55 miles from the Cleveland transmitters and receive all of the digital full power Cleveland stations. WOIO drops out occasionally. I receive the rest 24/7 with no problems. Ironically, WJW-DT and WEWS-DT are my two strongest Cleveland stations. You should be able to receive the full power Cleveland stations with no problems. What antenna are you using? Are you using a preamplifier? Please describe your complete setup including the number of televisions and the length of your cable runs.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14514457
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> 
> I would love to turn off the TWC box and go to an OTA setup and have been trying to get a good setup.. I installed a rooftop antenna, went to Antenna Web etc. Some of
> 
> the channels come in fine but others have severe dropouts and cannot get signal lock.
> 
> 
> WJW-DT (FOX), WEWS (ABC) and WBNX are our favorites and they are the problem ones.
> 
> 
> Will this get better when the stations shut off their Analog broadcasting?



Are you currently receiving (utilizing) the analog or digital OTA broadcasts?


As has been mentioned, a better description of your equipment and location would better enable forum members to post more concise answers.


----------



## jwt0001

I just checked and I still have USA HD.


Oh wait... I have Directv. Never mind...











(Sorry, I had to do it!)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14516088
> 
> 
> As of right now, 3:05 AM, USA and the two Olympic channels are gone. POOF!! Nowhere to be found. It's like they never existed. All my recordings in the DVR menu now say "USAHD●65535". No recorded shows were deleted and no series recordings were canceled, even though the channel no longer exists. I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow. The ****'s gonna hit the fan!!


----------



## hookbill

Remember nickdawg when I told you that zap2it.com is more then just an online guide for me. It's directly where TiVo gets it's program guide information.


I was hoping when I got up this morning I wouldn't see what I saw, but there it was: as soon as I hit the TiVo button a message popped up saying "A change in your channel line up has occurred. USA HD - DELETED.

*However on my TiVo it is still there*. Try manually punching in the channel. If I get it you should too. But I do not have guide data anymore so I don't know what to do. It's 9:00 am now.


I sent that email to Steve Fry. I guess I could try calling customer service to see if there is some type of "Official Word."


I might try one other thing as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14516410
> 
> 
> I just checked and I still have USA HD.
> 
> 
> Oh wait... I have Directv. Never mind...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry, I had to do it!)



I just saw that one.










Technically as of this moment I do too.


----------



## hookbill

TWC: Can you give me your phone number

hook: 555 TW Sucks

TWC: Can you verify your address

hook: 1000 Times I get Screwed by TW Rd.

TWC: Thank you, can I further verify by getting the last 4 of your social?

hook: 000 00 0000

TWC: How can I help you?

hook: Well, I notice that USA HD is no longer available *on the guide*.

CLUELESS TWC: Let me check the channel line up in your area.

hook thinking: You dumb s##t I just asked about USA HD and you don't have a clue it was ever on!

DUMB TWC: I see that USA is on channel 46 in your area, sir.

hook: So was it only on channel 450 for the Olympics?

CLUELESS TWC: That's correct sir (with a tone like "huh").

hook: OK, thank you

NOW GETTING RIDICULOUS TWC: I see it's also available on channel 201.

hook: Yes, I know that. Thank you. hang up


Trying to explain everything to this guy would have led to a long and painfull conversation. I'm going to leave a message for my source and see what she says.


I don't think it will be good news.


In the meantime, try punching in 450 manually and see if you still get it. Just because I have TiVo shouldn't make a difference (I don't think). You will have to set up manual recordings until or if they put it back on the line up.


Unless they did something to those SA 8300 boxes to keep you from getting to that channel.


----------



## jwt0001

At the risk of getting flamed...


Wasn't USA HD added to TWC on a temporary basis just for the Olympics? If so, how can you be angry that it might be gone? I understand disappointment, but don't act like Time Warner is doing something wrong. They promised something, they did it, and now they're done. You can ask them to add it permanently, but who knows how long that will take? I don't see that you have any other choice though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14516935
> 
> 
> At the risk of getting flamed...
> 
> 
> Wasn't USA HD added to TWC on a temporary basis just for the Olympics? If so, how can you be angry that it might be gone? I understand disappointment, but don't act like Time Warner is doing something wrong. They promised something, they did it, and now they're done. You can ask them to add it permanently, but who knows how long that will take? I don't see that you have any other choice though.



I'm not going to flame you. You see there has been some talk on the web about TW adding this on at sometime. And it's a bit of a tease when we are able to record some HD shows and then we can't.


Has TW done anything wrong? Not really, but adding a channel for a brief period and a few others shows that the only reason they arn't adding more channels isn't because of lack of bandwith. It's because they are cheap and I think that's why most people are upset.


I would love to see the 4400 in HD.


I also noticed that apparently you guys cannot receive it at all from what I read. So how is it I can? It doesn't make sense, unless they can filter that box somehow and can't do that to my TiVo.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14516410
> 
> 
> I just checked and I still have USA HD.
> 
> 
> Oh wait... I have Directv. Never mind...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry, I had to do it!)










... I like you!


----------



## hookbill

I called my contact at TW headend, left a message. A half hour later I put on channel 450, and guess what? I got a nice grey screen!

















I wonder if they got my message and said, "oh yeah, we gotta get those TiVo people too."?


Point is I saw it on there at 9:00 am so we know that they had it and may still have it.


Maybe someday.


----------



## Inundated

TWC made it rather clear that USA HD was only for the Olympics. They darn near shouted it from the rooftops, and there's no indication that a permanent carriage was in the works.


Why's everyone surprised?










Re: our new Akron resident talking about having troubles receiving the DT stations, what part of town are you in? How far are you from the Parma antenna farm?


----------



## rick490

I see Time Warner Cable and the Big Ten are arguing again.


Even though I am an Ohio State fan, I would rather Time Warner Cable not add the Big Ten HD Channel at this time. I wouldn't want to waste the bandwidth, at least until they implement SDV. I would much rather Time Warner make a deal for USA HD and SciFi HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14516871
> 
> 
> In the meantime, try punching in 450 manually and see if you still get it. Just because I have TiVo shouldn't make a difference (I don't think). You will have to set up manual recordings until or if they put it back on the line up.
> 
> 
> Unless they did something to those SA 8300 boxes to keep you from getting to that channel.



Tivo beats us at that too!! With SA boxes, you cannot tune any channel that's not mapped to a source. 4-5-0 does nothing, just flashing question marks. If I still had Passport and knew the frequency of the channel I could probably manually tune it from the diagnostic screen, but they took that away! I'm not surprised the worthless lump of flesh, err, umm, I mean "TWC CSR", didn't know about USA HD. It was never advertised by TWC. I wonder how manyy HD viewers didn't even know they had it available? Here we get a massage on channels like ESPN and STO that say "Press Select For Enhanced" that brings up a box with the option to tune to the HD channel. I believe that's also the interface for features like StartOver as well. But forget about that, they can't even ass new HD channels


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/14517949
> 
> 
> I see Time Warner Cable and the Big Ten are arguing again.
> 
> 
> Even though I am an Ohio State fan, I would rather Time Warner Cable not add the Big Ten HD Channel at this time. I wouldn't want to waste the bandwidth, at least until they implement SDV. I would much rather Time Warner make a deal for USA HD and SciFi HD.



I know they are suppose to be in talks again..along with the NFL Network.


I wonder if they will add the ML Network when it starts on 01/01/09


Probably not...lol


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/14517949
> 
> 
> I see Time Warner Cable and the Big Ten are arguing again.
> 
> 
> Even though I am an Ohio State fan, I would rather Time Warner Cable not add the Big Ten HD Channel at this time. I wouldn't want to waste the bandwidth, at least until they implement SDV. I would much rather Time Warner make a deal for USA HD and SciFi HD.



Or at least add SD digital. I agree, TWC NEO is not in the position to add HD specialty channels without SDV.


----------



## ErieMarty

but whats going to keep people from switching from TW to Dish/Direct.


getting big 10 network and NFL channel..then just keeping USA in HD or adding a few other channels..


I am sure they get more phone calls saying i am switching because I can't get the sports channels I want..then anything else..


I could be all wrong..won't be the first time.


----------



## cerickson99

Sure.

I have a rooftop Antenna I purchased from Lowes..

(there are trees in my line of site and my house is downhill from Cleveland where the broadcasts are I am trying to receive)

I mounted it on the roof with a 5 foot tripod and a 10 foot mast.

I have a 100ft cable (RG 6 Coax Cable)

I don't have it split at all. It goes directly into my home built PVR.

My PVR is mythtv and has a KWorld 115 ATSC capture card.


----------



## cerickson99

I am talking only about Digital stations... The strength of fox is around 90-93%. But still get those dropouts that make it un-watchable...

BTW - I don't have an pre-amp..


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14519689
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> I have a rooftop Antenna I purchased from Lowes..
> 
> (there are trees in my line of site and my house is downhill from Cleveland where the broadcasts are I am trying to receive)
> 
> I mounted it on the roof with a 5 foot tripod and a 10 foot mast.
> 
> I have a 100ft cable (RG 6 Coax Cable)
> 
> I don't have it split at all. It goes directly into my home built PVR.
> 
> My PVR is mythtv and has a KWorld 115 ATSC capture card.



It might help to post a more specific location as others familiar with Akron may know the area/terrain and then be able to offer more specific solutions.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14519713
> 
> 
> I am talking only about Digital stations... The strength of fox is around 90-93%. But still get those dropouts that make it un-watchable...
> 
> BTW - I don't have an pre-amp..



That seems odd. If my signal strength is above 75% it's a pretty solid digital signal. Might be a tuner issue?


If not a major inconvenience: Any way to temporarily go direct from your OTA cable direct to your TV? Check for drop outs then? Maybe the PC tuner card is too finicky and requires a 100% rock solid signal? (I know nothing about PC tuner cards)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14518060
> 
> 
> Or at least add SD digital. *I agree, TWC NEO is not in the position to add HD specialty channels without SDV*.



Now I've seen you say a great deal of things that doesn't make sense, however this tops them all. Seriously.


How in the heck could you come to that conclusion? They just proved they could do it. They are not out of bandwith. That's bull.


They are not in the position to add 100 channels or anything like that. But they showed they can easily add 3 more channels.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14517472
> 
> 
> I called my contact at TW headend, left a message. A half hour later I put on channel 450, and guess what? I got a nice grey screen!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if they got my message and said, "oh yeah, we gotta get those TiVo people too."?
> 
> 
> Point is I saw it on there at 9:00 am so we know that they had it and may still have it.
> 
> 
> Maybe someday.



I don't think you jinxed anything, Hookbill. They said it was going to be temporary, and they're probably meeting some contractual obligations to maintain that promise.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14521079
> 
> 
> I don't think you jinxed anything, Hookbill. They said it was going to be temporary, and they're probably meeting some contractual obligations to maintain that promise.



Oh I know that. It would have happened anyway.


But at least I had it longer then nickdawg!


----------



## hookbill

This of course is directed to my favorite sparring partner, nickdawg.


I keep telling you that SDV is not spreading at the rate you seem to think it is. Now the FCC has fined Hawaii, one of the first to go all SDV.

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=162284 


Notice how the article says "a small group" in regards to how many actually are using SDV.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14521335
> 
> 
> This of course is directed to my favorite sparring partner, nickdawg.
> 
> 
> I keep telling you that SDV is not spreading at the rate you seem to think it is. Now the FCC has fined Hawaii, one of the first to go all SDV.
> 
> http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=162284
> 
> 
> Notice how the article says "a small group" in regards to how many actually are using SDV.



I actually read that over on DSLR and I have to agree with one of the commentors that said that it really should be Tivo's fault for not coming out with a method to support SDV themselves. The whole idea and technical implementation of SDV has been around for a while just waiting for cableco's to put it in. Tivo TECHNICALLY is an unsupported platform on cable networks just like routers are for HSI.


Though on the other hand I do admit that Hawaii TW should have at least waited till the tuning resolvers were available. But these people essentially praising Tivo and thinking they are the holy messiah in all this and going after TW with torches and pitchforks for actually trying to UPGRADE their network for more capacity need to get a freakin' grip.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14521423
> 
> 
> I actually read that over on DSLR and I have to agree with one of the commentors that said that it really should be Tivo's fault for not coming out with a method to support SDV themselves. The whole idea and technical implementation of SDV has been around for a while just waiting for cableco's to put it in. Tivo TECHNICALLY is an unsupported platform on cable networks just like routers are for HSI.



How could it possibly be TiVo's fault when at the time of the design of the S3 cablelabs and the FCC had not come to an agreement. And since cable companies designed the cable cards TiVo can't design something that they have no access to.


And further, this isn't just TiVo. This affects any other potential competitor who wants to make their own DVR. The rule to implement the digital converter was not just for TiVo, but for others as well.


I will admit however, that TiVo is the primary DVR manufacturer next to and Motorola, who's DVR's are really a POS compared to a TiVo.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14521066
> 
> 
> Now I've seen you say a great deal of things that doesn't make sense, however this tops them all. Seriously.
> 
> 
> How in the heck could you come to that conclusion? They just proved they could do it. They are not out of bandwith. That's bull.
> 
> 
> They are not in the position to add 100 channels or anything like that. But they showed they can easily add 3 more channels.



No, you just misunderstood. What I meant is TWC is in no position to add SPECIALTY NETWORKS (permanently) like Big Ten, NFL, Golf or Soccer. The discussion was about adding the Big Ten network. It wouldn't be in their best interest to use the limited bandwidth to add that as a full time HD network when they could add USA HD and SCIFI HD instead. What I would like to see if hell froze over and TWC added NFL/Big Ten is the HD versions of those games picked up in HD Bonus Land. I think the worthless drooling losers, err umm I mean "talented qualified techs" at TWC could pull _that_ off! I thought about that b/c I've read other TWC areas added golf in HD. F**king GOLF in HD!!!!
























































C'mon!!! We don't want that!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14522514
> 
> 
> No, you just misunderstood. What I meant is TWC is in no position to add SPECIALTY NETWORKS (permanently) like Big Ten, NFL, Golf or Soccer. The discussion was about adding the Big Ten network. It wouldn't be in their best interest to use the limited bandwidth to add that as a full time HD network when they could add USA HD and SCIFI HD instead. What I would like to see if hell froze over and TWC added NFL/Big Ten is the HD versions of those games picked up in HD Bonus Land. I think the worthless drooling losers, err umm I mean "talented qualified techs" at TWC could pull _that_ off! I thought about that b/c I've read other TWC areas added golf in HD. F**king GOLF in HD!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon!!! We don't want that!



Golf in HD would look very nice! Of course the fact that it would put you to sleep in 10 minutes, well, that's a side effect.










OK, I gotcha. So let me ask you something else. Why in the hell do you stay with TW?


Oh, I forgot, you don't want to shell out the 279.00 for the D* DVR. So instead you put up with being irritated to holy crap by TW.










I know that the DVR that D* provides isn't as good as a TiVo, but I also know it's a heck of alot better then the SA 8300. Sometimes you gotta shell out some money to get something better. Which is why I put out all this money on the TiVo, but believe me if I had a line of site I would not have gone that route. They still had TiVo DVR's at the time I looked into them but they needed a land line phone to call in at least once. I would have taken it over to my neighbors house to do the call in. Now that's no longer available.


SDV is not going to be here soon. And when it does get here who knows how many problems that will bring with it for both you and me.


If you've got a line of site, and you can shell out the 300 bucks do yourself a favor and go satellite. Heck you'e leasing the box and if it goes bad, you get another one, no charge. I have extended warranties on my TiVo's but many people don't and the hard drive goes and boom, there goes all their recordings.


Well, I guess that can happen with any DVR. And no eSATA for the D* so that's another issue.


As Inundated pointed out, and a couple of others TW didn't lie to us. They said "temporary" and that's exactly what they did. But if I was as unhappy about it as you are, I'd switch. Do they have U-Verse in your area? It's got limitations too but more HD, you just can't record two HD channels at one time.


Then again if you did solve these issues you wouldn't have anything to come in here and gripe about, love one minute, hate the next. You know the routine.










Nickdawg, you are a trip. And if you ever get to the point where you do want tor return that lovely SA 8300 with it's Navigator software that *DOES NOT ALLOW* you to push the channels in (totally ridiculous) I'll bring the chain over so you can tie it to the bumper of your car and drag it to your nearest TW office.


----------



## Vchat20

Personally? The only reason at this point that I haven't switched to D* is the whole contracts deal. I got burned on that BS with Embarq/Sprint with DSL a while ago that ended up with a ~$500 accumulation of ETF/reconnect fees that would have taken an act of god to correct in our favor.


The less contracts I have to deal with and walk on thin ice during the length of said contract, the better.


Otherwise, I'd have made a beeline to D* the moment they pulled this BS with the 'Olympics Exclusive' channels.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14521977
> 
> 
> How could it possibly be TiVo's fault when at the time of the design of the S3 cablelabs and the FCC had not come to an agreement. And since cable companies designed the cable cards TiVo can't design something that they have no access to.
> 
> 
> And further, this isn't just TiVo. This affects any other potential competitor who wants to make their own DVR. The rule to implement the digital converter was not just for TiVo, but for others as well.
> 
> 
> I will admit however, that TiVo is the primary DVR manufacturer next to and Motorola, who's DVR's are really a POS compared to a TiVo.



I think hook is correct. Hell, the cable companies themselves could not get CableCards to work correctly in the early days on their own boxes, let alone a 3rd party competitor like Tivo that has to work with hundreds of cable systems across the country. And that was with the so-called CableLabs "standard" in place. Damn impressive that Tivo has been able to get the S3 to work at all, if you ask me. They must lose a lot of $$ per box in customer support, phone calls, etc. The amount of time I've seen the cable company and customers spend on getting these cablecards to work is unbelievable. All for something that should be "plug and play". And it's not just Tivo, it's all the brands of CableCard ready TV's that are screwed up too.


----------



## terryfoster

First, I would have to say that Hook's right. Since you're just finally seeing the digital simulcasts that TWC Cincinnati has had for a couple years now, you'll probably see SDV after they do as well.


Second, much to the delight of some and the shock of others, TWC and BTN have reached an agreement (so much for not adding specialty channels):

http://www.reuters.com/article/telev...28831820080826


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14523744
> 
> 
> And it's not just Tivo, it's all the brands of CableCard ready TV's that are screwed up too.



Have you noticed that CableCard ready TVs have disappeared? They're incorporating QAM demodulators, but have dropped CableCard.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14524311
> 
> 
> Have you noticed that CableCard ready TVs have disappeared? They're incorporating QAM demodulators, but have dropped CableCard.



The original cable cards were a joke. No two way communication, vast incompatibilities among hardware mfr's and cable co's, very glitchy.


By the time the 2nd generation cable cards came out with two way communication the consumer was so fed up (or had heard so many bad stories) they didn't want them. Many consumers that would have given 2nd gen cards a chance could not even try them as their TV's had only 1st gen card compatibility.


Very poorly implemented concept from the beginning.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14524349
> 
> 
> The original cable cards were a joke. No two way communication, vast incompatibilities among hardware mfr's and cable co's, very glitchy.
> 
> 
> By the time the 2nd generation cable cards came out with two way communication the consumer was so fed up (or had heard so many bad stories) they didn't want them. Many consumers that would have given 2nd gen cards a chance could not even try them as their TV's had only 1st gen card compatibility.
> 
> 
> Very poorly implemented concept from the beginning.



I agree with all of you guys on the cable card thing but I singled out toby10 because whether you realize it or not there will still be a cable card used in the true2way technology. And from what I've heard so far all is not moving that smoothly on that front either! Lot's of things to work out there as well.


Terryforter, I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I heard they were going to start SDV in Cincinnatti and you said you hadn't heard anything but you knew about Columbus, which I didn't. It would seem to me that you still have to have 2 way communication to make SDV work, which would mean you have to have a cable card. I don't understand. But I'm pretty dumb about QAM anyway so sorry if this is a stupid question.


Also read the reuters link on BTN. Not too much detail on how they plan to implement this. Personally I don't care but if they are going to put BTN HD instead of USA or FX, I say waste of bandwith.


Just my opinion. I would like to know if they agreed to go into that Sports Package thing. That would be a convenient way to squeeze another 5 bucks out of you guys.


And as far as the contract thing, I've posted this before and many of you laughed it off, but it does work. You need to get out of the contract? You simply "die". Somebody on the TiVo forum told me about how he did it a while back. I had to pm him to get the info but he simply called, identified himself as his brother and said "my brother got into a car accident and got killed. I'm handling his affairs, and there is no need for satellite services."


Sorry to hear that sir, of course we will stop service. No death certificate required.










Of course getting service started up again might be a problem. A wife could do that. There is only one person that I know of who rose from the dead. Well two if you count Lazarus. I'm not a religious person but that's all I've ever heard about.


----------



## jwt0001

According to this morning's Plain Dealer, Time Warner reached agreement for the Big Ten Network:

http://www.cleveland.com/buckeyeblog...e_warne_1.html 


The article doesn't mention high definition broadcasts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14524450
> 
> 
> According to this morning's Plain Dealer, Time Warner reached agreement for the Big Ten Network:
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/buckeyeblog...e_warne_1.html
> 
> 
> The article doesn't mention high definition broadcasts.



terryfoster beat you to the punch look about 4 post up and on the post I made as you wer posting I asked about the HD thing too.


----------



## GregF2

I would love to see the the Golf Channel in HD, more so than USAHD ScifiHD, etc... So glad they added the Big Ten Network in HD, now bring on the NFL NetworkHD.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14522514
> 
> 
> No, you just misunderstood. What I meant is TWC is in no position to add SPECIALTY NETWORKS (permanently) like Big Ten, NFL, Golf or Soccer. The discussion was about adding the Big Ten network. It wouldn't be in their best interest to use the limited bandwidth to add that as a full time HD network when they could add USA HD and SCIFI HD instead. What I would like to see if hell froze over and TWC added NFL/Big Ten is the HD versions of those games picked up in HD Bonus Land. I think the worthless drooling losers, err umm I mean "talented qualified techs" at TWC could pull _that_ off! I thought about that b/c I've read other TWC areas added golf in HD. F**king GOLF in HD!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon!!! We don't want that!


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14524459
> 
> 
> terryfoster beat you to the punch look about 4 post up and on the post I made as you wer posting I asked about the HD thing too.



Here's the BTN posting which says yes to HD:
http://www.bigtennetwork.com/corpora...-Statement.asp 


The Reuter's article says BTN will be available as an expanded basic channel. So you're adding an analog channel and a HD channel, that ought to make everyone happy.


----------



## jwt0001

Actually, BTN also has alternate networks to show other games on Saturday afternoons, but I'm sure TWC won't be picking those up!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14524585
> 
> 
> Here's the BTN posting which says yes to HD:
> http://www.bigtennetwork.com/corpora...-Statement.asp
> 
> 
> The Reuter's article says BTN will be available as an expanded basic channel. So you're adding an analog channel and a HD channel, that ought to make everyone happy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14524585
> 
> 
> Here's the BTN posting which says yes to HD:
> http://www.bigtennetwork.com/corpora...-Statement.asp
> 
> 
> The Reuter's article says BTN will be available as an expanded basic channel. So you're adding an analog channel and a HD channel, that ought to make everyone happy.



FOX 8 News is reporting that it will be shown here in Cleveland on Expanded Basic. Which is just what terryfoster said.


I really have to read the posts I'm quoting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14524618
> 
> 
> Actually, BTN also has alternate networks to show other games on Saturday afternoons, but I'm sure TWC won't be picking those up!



You mean like the way it's owner/partner FOXSPORTS NET is set up? Probably not unless they set up a sports tier like satellite has had for years and based upon their current situation with HD, bandwith, etc. I don't see that happening.


----------



## terryfoster

I don't think all of the details of the deal have yet been published. I think I also ran across an article that said the VOD content would also be made available.


I wouldn't be surprised if this deal doesn't end up sounding like Comcast deal. I also wouldn't be surprised to hear the the overflow channels are available to digital customers like they supposedly will be for Comcast customers.


Here's BTN's "Fast Facts" and FAQ on the Comcast Deal as a frame of reference until all details are published:
http://www.bigtennetwork.com/corporate/Comcast-FAQ.asp


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14519689
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> I have a rooftop Antenna I purchased from Lowes..
> 
> (there are trees in my line of site and my house is downhill from Cleveland where the broadcasts are I am trying to receive)
> 
> I mounted it on the roof with a 5 foot tripod and a 10 foot mast.
> 
> I have a 100ft cable (RG 6 Coax Cable)
> 
> I don't have it split at all. It goes directly into my home built PVR.
> 
> My PVR is mythtv and has a KWorld 115 ATSC capture card.



It would really help if you would state the brand and model number of your antenna. How large are the trunks of your trees? How far are they from your antenna setup? Are they conifers or deciduous trees? Is your antenna pointed directly at the trunks of close trees?


Here are some potential issues:


1.) There is multipath interference.

2.) Your tuner card's front end is being overload because of high signal strengths.

3.) There is FM or other interference.

4.) The signal is blocked by obstructions.


I doubt the last one because your signal strength is jumping into the 90%+ range before dropping out. My preliminary guess is that you're dealing with multipath or FM interference.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14524349
> 
> 
> The original cable cards were a joke. No two way communication, vast incompatibilities among hardware mfr's and cable co's, very glitchy.
> 
> 
> By the time the 2nd generation cable cards came out with two way communication the consumer was so fed up (or had heard so many bad stories) they didn't want them. Many consumers that would have given 2nd gen cards a chance could not even try them as their TV's had only 1st gen card compatibility.
> 
> 
> Very poorly implemented concept from the beginning.



I'm really tired of seeing people bashing cablecards on the baseless claim that they are not two-way capable. PLEASE read up on the technology before you go claiming this all as fact.


Cablecards have always been two-way capable, it's just up to the tv/set-top manufacturers to build in bi-directional capable tuners which they have obviously been lazy in doing.


The ONLY thing cablecards actually offer is the system to decrypt/encrypt the non-clear QAM channels coming across the system. There is no tuner hardware in these cards. Otherwise, you'd see a honking F connector sitting on the back of it to hook up yet ANOTHER cable line.


(I am in no way defending cablecards here, but just trying to clear up this misconception yet again. Always pisses me off when people pull the 'cablecards-are-not-two-way-capable' BS.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14525582
> 
> *I'm really tired of seeing people bashing cablecards on the baseless claim that they are not two-way capable. PLEASE read up on the technology before you go claiming this all as fact.*Cablecards have always been two-way capable, it's just up to the tv/set-top manufacturers to build in bi-directional capable tuners which they have obviously been lazy in doing.
> 
> 
> The ONLY thing cablecards actually offer is the system to decrypt/encrypt the non-clear QAM channels coming across the system. There is no tuner hardware in these cards. Otherwise, you'd see a honking F connector sitting on the back of it to hook up yet ANOTHER cable line.
> 
> 
> (I am in no way defending cablecards here, but just trying to clear up this misconception yet again. Always pisses me off when people pull the 'cablecards-are-not-two-way-capable' BS.)



Highlighted paragraph: You are absolutely correct. It's the equipment that needs to be two way capable.


However the problems with cable cards go beyond that fact. Compatability problems are a major problem, i.e. M cards vs S cards. Now in most areas you will have no problem if you have a TiVo HD and use a single M card. However if you use two M cards in an S3, I've seen numerous people who've had problems with that.


Now if M cards were designed after the S3 came out then that issue should have been taken into consideration, and in fact probably was. But the design of an M card doesn't necessarily mean that the cable systems equipment will work properly with two M cards in the S3.


So not only is it the manufacturer but also the cable company as well that needs to be able to make their equipment work with these cards. Also the very poor training of their techs, and people who work in headend in some areas have a great deal to do with this problem.


Then we have the human factor. The installer reads the number off correctly but the person doing the input makes a typo. In my last install for my TiVo HD I caught the installer reading the numbers back incorrectly.


I could go on and on but I'll stop here. I just hope that they get tru2way right, but who knows? And there will be a cable card involved in that as well.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14525582
> 
> 
> I'm really tired of seeing people bashing cablecards on the baseless claim that they are not two-way capable. PLEASE read up on the technology before you go claiming this all as fact.
> 
> 
> Cablecards have always been two-way capable, it's just up to the tv/set-top manufacturers to build in bi-directional capable tuners which they have obviously been lazy in doing.
> 
> 
> The ONLY thing cablecards actually offer is the system to decrypt/encrypt the non-clear QAM channels coming across the system. There is no tuner hardware in these cards. Otherwise, you'd see a honking F connector sitting on the back of it to hook up yet ANOTHER cable line.
> 
> 
> (I am in no way defending cablecards here, but just trying to clear up this misconception yet again. Always pisses me off when people pull the 'cablecards-are-not-two-way-capable' BS.)



Well pardon me for not fully understanding the botched implementation of this technology. I was only detailing what I was told by several retailers and two cable co's.


Wiki:

"Two proposals exist for enhancing the CableCARD standard. Both are designed to add support for two-way features whose operation details the CE and cable company representatives could not agree on in time for inclusion in the CableCARD 1.0 specification. These two-way features include ordering pay-per-view via remote, Video On Demand, advanced electronic programming guide information, and Switched Video services. These features are not supported by CableCARD 1.0, and so are not available with current CableCARD-enabled products."


Blame who you wish.










Pisses me off when some techno-dweeb gets on his high horse and gets all *snippy* in a forum to exchange information, help others and learn.










How about a more friendly "I think you may have a misunderstanding about cable card technology.........."?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14526462
> 
> 
> Wiki:
> 
> "Two proposals exist for enhancing the CableCARD standard. Both are designed to add support for two-way features whose operation details the CE and cable company representatives could not agree on in time for inclusion in the CableCARD 1.0 specification. These two-way features include ordering pay-per-view via remote, Video On Demand, advanced electronic programming guide information, and Switched Video services. These features are not supported by CableCARD 1.0, and so are not available with current CableCARD-enabled products."
> 
> 
> Blame who you wish.



Here's another quote from the opening of the same Wiki article:

"Use of the term CableCARD can be confusing, because some technologies refer not to the physical card, but to a device ("Host") that uses the card. Some CableCARD technologies can be used with devices that have no physical CableCARDs."


----------



## hookbill

Isn't it interesting the way people perceive things they read in these forums!










Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that despite the fact that I told my contact at headend not to worry about my call, she called me back anyway. She didn't tell me anything we don't already know but she also said they are in negotiations with USA HD.


Like I said, nothing new, she did mention that she spent some effort to get as much info as she could for me but no time frame.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14526897
> 
> 
> Here's another quote from the opening of the same Wiki article:
> 
> "Use of the term CableCARD can be confusing, because some technologies refer not to the physical card, but to a device ("Host") that uses the card. Some CableCARD technologies can be used with devices that have no physical CableCARDs."



Exactly!










And further complicating things are the cable co specific cards designed to work/interface with their unique system. When the Adelphia tech showed up to install the card he said "oh...a Panasonic TV.....this may be a problem". He went on to explain that the supplied cards are very "hit and miss" with Panny TV's and that it may not function at all. He further explained that at his previous cable co (another state) their cards worked flawlessly with any Panny they plugged a card into and that it was the Sony brand that were "not so compatible" with that cable co's supplied cards.


It took well over an hour of the card "installing itself" on my Panny to get it to function, but it eventually did work. But absent the channel guide and other features I went back to the big 'ole box!


Again, place the blame where you wish, but the entire implementation was flawed and quirky resulting in MANY consumers (like myself) to have little interest in the technology (as is apparently evident by fewer models even offering the cable card option).


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14519713
> 
> 
> I am talking only about Digital stations... The strength of fox is around 90-93%. But still get those dropouts that make it un-watchable...
> 
> BTW - I don't have an pre-amp..



With 100 ft. of RG-6, you might want to invest in a preamp. To do any good, it has to be mounted at the antenna. Radio Shack has one that looke like a small balun/transformer and is powered through the cable from inside the house.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14527048
> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He further explained that at his previous cable co (another state) their cards worked flawlessly with any Panny they plugged a card into and that it was the Sony brand that were "not so compatible" with that cable co's supplied cards.



That says it all right there! And that's exactly what's happened, same card, different cable company and you have problems.


----------



## dleising

So when is the BTN going to officially going to launch?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/14527591
> 
> 
> So when is the BTN going to officially going to launch?



In 10, 9, 8, 7.....










No offense guy, but geeze, we all just found out they signed today. If I had to guess however, I would say pretty soon. I wouldn't even be surprised if you see it right after labor day.


Now I'm basing this thought on how Adelphia use to launch HD, usually at the beginning of the month. With TW, who really knows?


----------



## jwt0001

The first game is Saturday and they've indicated that they will be showing it, so it would have to be before Labor Day...




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14527741
> 
> 
> In 10, 9, 8, 7.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense guy, but geeze, we all just found out they signed today. If I had to guess however, I would say pretty soon. I wouldn't even be surprised if you see it right after labor day.
> 
> 
> Now I'm basing this thought on how Adelphia use to launch HD, usually at the beginning of the month. With TW, who really knows?


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14527768
> 
> 
> The first game is Saturday and they've indicated that they will be showing it, so it would have to be before Labor Day...



Your right. I think we'll see it by Friday. Time Warner Cable Columbus is already showing the channel numbers. One for sd and one for hd.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14527768
> 
> 
> The first game is Saturday and they've indicated that they will be showing it, so it would have to be before Labor Day...



Not that I want to rain on your parade, nor the fact that I'm pissed because they put this crap on instead of something I care about but I took another look at the article and it says *MOST* TW people in the midwest should get the first game.


Now to me that's probably a good bet that may include us but it might not. Cincinnatti and Columbus may get it before we do.


----------



## rick490

ESPNU goes HD on Thursday. Time Warner already has an agreement to carry the new HD channel. What if Friday, we got two new HD channels. Two sports channels. Yea or Nea? Kent State could be in HD Saturday night.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14527001
> 
> 
> Isn't it interesting the way people perceive things they read in these forums!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I just thought I'd mention that despite the fact that I told my contact at headend not to worry about my call, she called me back anyway. She didn't tell me anything we don't already know but she also said they are in negotiations with USA HD.
> 
> 
> Like I said, nothing new, she did mention that she spent some effort to get as much info as she could for me but no time frame.



I know how you feel about what CSRs say, but I read on the More News About TWC HD thread that someone in another market heard from a CSR that USA HD is being added on September 10. Although that was debunked, some more are being added in California, including ESPN News. Think we might see ESPNU as well?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dolmar* /forum/post/14525283
> 
> 
> MyTV Channel 13 HD
> 
> ABC Family HD
> 
> Disney Channel HD
> 
> Food Network HD
> 
> HGTV HD
> 
> TLC HD
> 
> Golf HD
> 
> Espn News
> 
> A&E HD
> 
> History HD
> 
> CNN HD
> 
> Discovery HD
> 
> National Graphics HD



They appear to be a bit behind since they are adding HGTV, Food, History and A&E now.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14526897
> 
> 
> Here's another quote from the opening of the same Wiki article:
> 
> "Use of the term CableCARD can be confusing, because some technologies refer not to the physical card, but to a device ("Host") that uses the card. Some CableCARD technologies can be used with devices that have no physical CableCARDs."



And There Is no Spoon.







Actually there is a version of cablecard-style technology where the CE manufacturer bakes the decryption and conditional access circuitry right into the set. Samsung has a working demo of this, but it has yet to see the light of day in the retail market.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14528088
> 
> 
> I know how you feel about what CSRs say, but I read on the More News About TWC HD thread that someone in another market heard from a CSR that USA HD is being added on September 10. Although that was debunked, some more are being added in California, including ESPN News. Think we might see ESPNU as well?




I don't know if you saw where I had posted earlier that my headend person called me today and said that they were in negotiations but no date set as to when it will start for USA HD.


BIG 10 fans, FOX 8 just announced that this Saturdays game will be available.


----------



## jwt0001

Not to rain on YOUR parade, but I don't really care whether it's on TWC or not. I have Directv. I wish that Directv would add ESPNUHD on its first day (Thursday) so that I can see BC/Kent State in HD on Saturday. But you know what? Even if they don't I suspect I'll still be alive on Sunday.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14527861
> 
> 
> Not that I want to rain on your parade, nor the fact that I'm pissed because they put this crap on instead of something I care about but I took another look at the article and it says *MOST* TW people in the midwest should get the first game.
> 
> 
> Now to me that's probably a good bet that may include us but it might not. Cincinnatti and Columbus may get it before we do.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14529130
> 
> 
> Not to rain on YOUR parade, but I don't really care whether it's on TWC or not. I have Directv. I wish that Directv would add ESPNUHD on its first day (Thursday) so that I can see BC/Kent State in HD on Saturday. But you know what? Even if they don't I suspect I'll still be alive on Sunday.



BOO!!!! I was waiting for the Directv hot shot to start taking shots at TWC.


Enjoy Planet Gren HD and ABC Family HD and Lifetime Movies and Hallmark HD!































We'll get these channels over time. It's _only_ TV! C'mon!


----------



## jwt0001

Feel better now?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14530199
> 
> 
> Feel better now?



Just a word to the wise. I didn't mean anything insulting when I said "I don't want to rain on your parade." And I really don't care how you get your HD, I've got nothing against Direct TV or any satellite company.


I truly didn't realize at the time of my statement that you were not a TW subscriber so if you took offense for my statement I apologize. But you are new to this area and most of us are pretty good friends. I'd like for you to be a friend as well, and welcome you. But you're not making a good start.


So it's not necessary to have the last word. Just let whatever it is that is bothering you go. We like to keep things peacefull around here with some occasional good ribbing, OK?


----------



## nickdawg

It's an understandable assumption. This forum is mostly cable customers, right? TWC seems to be topic #1 here.


----------



## rick490

from Time Warner Cable NEO Web page:


Standard definition channels on our Expanded Basic and Digital Cable service levels will launch in time for the Saturday, August 30 game. High definition and Video On Demand services will be added at a later time.


Big Ten Network will be available in most areas on channel 77, or Digital Cable position 333. Digital customers will also have the advantage of an alternate feed for more Big Ten excitement, on channel position 334.


Customers in the Franklin, PA area will see Big Ten on channel 28, and portions of the Erie, PA area will see the channel on position 31.


----------



## jwt0001

Now do YOU feel better?


If you noticed, I registered in 2004. I've bee reading for years, but only post sparingly, which will end right now. You guys need to go and watch TV and stop complaining about everything that doesn't go your way.


Bye Bye!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14530590
> 
> 
> Just a word to the wise. I didn't mean anything insulting when I said "I don't want to rain on your parade." And I really don't care how you get your HD, I've got nothing against Direct TV or any satellite company.
> 
> 
> I truly didn't realize at the time of my statement that you were not a TW subscriber so if you took offense for my statement I apologize. But you are new to this area and most of us are pretty good friends. I'd like for you to be a friend as well, and welcome you. But you're not making a good start.
> 
> 
> So it's not necessary to have the last word. Just let whatever it is that is bothering you go. We like to keep things peacefull around here with some occasional good ribbing, OK?


----------



## nickdawg

Nothing about HD. I was disappointed to see that it's going to be on analog 77. Just what we need, MORE analog garbage. This would be the perfect opportunity to get customers to upgrade to digital. "Want Big Ten, buy a cable box". Perfect. And TWC blew it. I'll bet the bandwidth that would be used for B10 HD is being wasted on an analog version for cheap asses.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14530848
> 
> 
> Nothing about HD. I was disappointed to see that it's going to be on analog 77. Just what we need, MORE analog garbage. This would be the perfect opportunity to get customers to upgrade to digital. "Want Big Ten, buy a cable box". Perfect. And TWC blew it. I'll bet the bandwidth that would be used for B10 HD is being wasted on an analog version for cheap asses.



Like I said earlier, you'll be getting the HD version on top of the analog SD version. Knowing TWC you'll also get the digital simulcast too.


----------



## nickdawg

They didn't advertise a channel number online. But then again, TWC has a ad habit in NE Ohio of not advertising HDTV. They never even advertised that they had USA.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14530846
> 
> 
> Now do YOU feel better?
> 
> 
> If you noticed, I registered in 2004. I've bee reading for years, but only post sparingly, which will end right now. You guys need to go and watch TV and stop complaining about everything that doesn't go your way.
> 
> 
> Bye Bye!





I tried to offer an olive branch to you and this is you're reaction? Regardless if you've been registered since 2004, or 1964, you're still new to posting with this group of current people.


And if that's your attitude, your a jerk and don't let the door hit you on the way out. nickdawg, wait until he leaves and trip him as he exits.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14531038
> 
> 
> They didn't advertise a channel number online. But then again, TWC has a ad habit in NE Ohio of not advertising HDTV. They never even advertised that they had USA.



terryfoster is right, it will be in HD. They said so on FOX 8.


----------



## Ralph3

Howdy folks, first time poster here in this thread.


I'm a Time Warner Cable subscriber in Concord (44077), and was just wondering if any of you might be familiar with a channel glitch I'm seeing in my new Windows Vista Media Center PC.


I have a QAM tuner in it and for some reason after it scans for available channels it lists in its guide channel 5.1 WEWSDT (ABC), but the actual channel that comes on when tuning to that channel is 8.1 WJWDT (FOX). Also, the actual 5.1 WEWSDT signal is not picked up at all on any channel that I have been able to find using my PC. Even adding it manually doesn't tune it in. I DO get 5.1 using the QAM tuner in my HDTV, but it's not seen at all through my Vista HTPC. Does anyone here know if this is already a known mistake?


Also, can someone tell me who's responsible for providing the channel line-up and making corrections? My guess is that Zap2It.com is providing the info that they've been given by TWC. I don't _think_ Microsoft is involved in actually providing guide/channel data to Windows PCs, but of course I could be wrong about that.


TIA for any insight.


----------



## nickdawg

Do you think IT is coming tongight??


----------



## Lighting Guy

Anybody else get bad macroblocking and drop outs tonight in general on TWC? I watched Ch. 43 for half an hour, and CBS for about an hour and it was bad on both. TWC via QAM.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ralph3* /forum/post/14538162
> 
> 
> Howdy folks, first time poster here in this thread.
> 
> 
> I'm a Time Warner Cable subscriber in Concord (44077), and was just wondering if any of you might be familiar with a channel glitch I'm seeing in my new Windows Vista Media Center PC.
> 
> 
> I have a QAM tuner in it and for some reason after it scans for available channels it lists in its guide channel 5.1 WEWSDT (ABC), but the actual channel that comes on when tuning to that channel is 8.1 WJWDT (FOX). Also, the actual 5.1 WEWSDT signal is not picked up at all on any channel that I have been able to find using my PC. Even adding it manually doesn't tune it in. I DO get 5.1 using the QAM tuner in my HDTV, but it's not seen at all through my Vista HTPC. Does anyone here know if this is already a known mistake?
> 
> 
> Also, can someone tell me who's responsible for providing the channel line-up and making corrections? My guess is that Zap2It.com is providing the info that they've been given by TWC. I don't _think_ Microsoft is involved in actually providing guide/channel data to Windows PCs, but of course I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> TIA for any insight.



First off, welcome to the thread!


I think I read about this before around here, unfortunently I don't remember what became of it. In your Media Center, can you actually edit the channel list (ie, see the physical and virtual channels)? I can't look it up right now, but you'll want to make sure your physical and virtual channels are correct for ABC and FOX. Hopefully someone else can post those channel numbers if I can't get to it soon. I could be completely off, but we can start there.


I just found this website. Its about XP Media Center, but most of it probably applies.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...e_dec2004.mspx 


And as far as I've found out with a little googling, zap2it does provide the guide data, and is owned by Tribune Media, not microsoft (yet







)


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/14539507
> 
> 
> Anybody else get bad macroblocking and drop outs tonight in general on TWC? I watched Ch. 43 for half an hour, and CBS for about an hour and it was bad on both. TWC via QAM.



I was watching the DNC on WOIO and there were a lot of dropouts (OTA and via D* locals). I had to switch away to CNNHD / PBS 49-1 for it to be watchable. No problems there.


----------



## nickdawg

Noticed the dropouts during Letterman. Didn't see it during the DNC as I was watching a combination of WNEO-DT and MSNBC.


The PBS feed on WNEO-DT was far superior to any other station. Everyone else talked over speeches, CNN was one of the worst offenders. The "Big Three" broadcast networks were even worse. PBS did a better job of showing all the speeches but the downside on PBS was the commentators. Some guy and chick who were waaay to stuffy for my tastes. That's why I watched MSNBC, I love Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann. Plus they have Tom Brokaw Chris Matthews and Brian Williams. Just seems so strange to be watching the conventions and not seeing Tim Russert.










Of course the downside to MSNBC is they have Pat Buchanan.














UKINGMYGUTSOUTATTHETHOUGHTOFTHATNAZIBASTARD:


----------



## ErieMarty

is TW just giving us the Ohio State game this weekend or all the big ten games played on Saturday ??


Just curious


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ralph3* /forum/post/14538162
> 
> 
> Howdy folks, first time poster here in this thread.
> 
> 
> I'm a Time Warner Cable subscriber in Concord (44077), and was just wondering if any of you might be familiar with a channel glitch I'm seeing in my new Windows Vista Media Center PC.
> 
> 
> I have a QAM tuner in it and for some reason after it scans for available channels it lists in its guide channel 5.1 WEWSDT (ABC), but the actual channel that comes on when tuning to that channel is 8.1 WJWDT (FOX). Also, the actual 5.1 WEWSDT signal is not picked up at all on any channel that I have been able to find using my PC. Even adding it manually doesn't tune it in. I DO get 5.1 using the QAM tuner in my HDTV, but it's not seen at all through my Vista HTPC. Does anyone here know if this is already a known mistake?
> 
> 
> Also, can someone tell me who's responsible for providing the channel line-up and making corrections? My guess is that Zap2It.com is providing the info that they've been given by TWC. I don't _think_ Microsoft is involved in actually providing guide/channel data to Windows PCs, but of course I could be wrong about that.
> 
> 
> TIA for any insight.



I have a Windows Media Player, XP and I know nothing about it.










But I do know that TW does not get it's data from zap2it.com. That is Tribune Media and they provide data for TiVo.


Now your next question might be "Couldn't they provide data for TW as well?"


I don't believe so, however things may have changed since the last time I saw data and they were still Adelphia. Communication with TW and Tribune Media had been poor in the early going, even after TW took over however the fact that people are seeing guide data for BTN on their DVR's and I don't see it on TiVo indicates to me that they probably are using different sources. And based upon the fact that the original TW area was able to schedule "record first run only" and we were not indicates there may have been two different data sources.


Original TW used Passport back then and ex Adelphia is still using SARA, but the type of software on the DVR did not matter in this case. SARA was also capable of running first run only *if* the data was provided by the provider. It wasn't.


----------



## cerickson99

Thanks for the reply. I don't know the brand or model of the antena. I got if from Lowes a few years ago. It is approx 6 ft long and has 6 'branches' coming out of it.


The trees are next door to us so about 50-70 feet away. The roof is on the 2nd story roof. I don't know what type trees... I am pointing a few degrees to one side of the trees.

How do I address multipath interference or FM interference?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14540786
> 
> 
> The fact that people are seeing guide data for BTN on their DVR's and I don't see it on TiVo indicates to me that they probably are using different sources.



WHAT!!!






































Hookbill must be pulling a nickdawg today(you know, saying something that makes absolutely no sense







). Who's seeing BTN? I checked in the 300s and the HD range. No BTN listed anywhere.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14544669
> 
> 
> WHAT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hookbill must be pulling a nickdawg today(you know, saying something that makes absolutely no sense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Who's seeing BTN? I checked in the 300s and the HD range. No BTN listed anywhere.



I could have sworn someone said they saw it listed in their guide, but upon further review, sad as it may seem, I am apparrently just as human as you are.


The problem as you have indicated is I'm doing it more frequently.


----------



## nickdawg

I have yet another new navigator problem. Yesterday I set the DVR to record "Clean House" at 6pm. When I just now checked the DVR, I get the message that it wasn't recorded "because the service no longer exists". The "service" I am talking about is Style network on channel 159. I turned on the channel and it was fine. It' was just the fscking Navigator that didn't want to record.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14545579
> 
> 
> I could have sworn someone said they saw it listed in their guide, but upon further review, sad as it may seem, I am apparrently just as human as you are.
> 
> 
> The problem as you have indicated is I'm doing it more frequently.



For the record, no BTN yet on either of my boxes, or analog cable 77, here in former Adelphia/TWC Cleveland land...


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cleveland just add Big 10 HD to the list. It's up and running showing an old game with sidebars.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14545579
> 
> 
> I could have sworn someone said they saw it listed in their guide, but upon further review, sad as it may seem, I am apparrently just as human as you are.



It was on the guide for a short while yesterday afternoon. By the evening it had disappeared. Before it disappeared Channel 77 had a blank screen and 333 had a message about subscribing to it.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/14530846
> 
> 
> Now do YOU feel better?
> 
> 
> If you noticed, I registered in 2004. I've bee reading for years, but only post sparingly, which will end right now. You guys need to go and watch TV and stop complaining about everything that doesn't go your way.
> 
> 
> Bye Bye!



Lets see.. In four years, You make only 13 posts, 12 of which have been in the last two weeks, and we're supposed to take you seriously?


----------



## Smarty-pants

*sign says...*
*Don't feed the trolls!*


----------



## nickdawg

I'll follow that advice and not respond to the post above mine!!


----------



## Smarty-pants

How's that Navigator software workin for ya Nick?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14547122
> 
> 
> How's that Navigator software workin for ya Nick?









































ROFLOL!!!!!


TW....They think like you do. I, unfortunately don't think like TW which is why I use TiVo.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14547168
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFLOL!!!!!
> 
> 
> TW....They think like you do. I, unfortunately don't think like TW which is why I use TiVo.



New slogan ad campaign:


Tivo: Leave the thinking to us!!










(since it "reads your mind" and decides what to record)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14547122
> 
> 
> How's that Navigator software workin for ya Nick?



Better than a TV set without a cable box!


----------



## Vchat20

The one HUGE thing I hate about Navigator so far and this has actually come up this evening is that it absolutely requires a connection to the headend to even boot. At least with Passport, you could run it without a cable hookup and manually skip the boot sequence and still have access to analog cable channels, manual timed recordings, and previously recorded shows.


We're out of town this week and I have a handful of HD movies on my navigator box at home and it'd be REAL nice to have access to those here.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14547392
> 
> 
> New slogan ad campaign:
> 
> 
> Tivo: Leave the thinking to us!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (since it "reads your mind" and decides what to record)



I actually had Direct TV with their Tivo a few years ago. While there were a lot of things about the Tivo I liked, the idea of their "suggesting" programs for me kind of creeped me out, so I turned that feature off after a while..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14547436
> 
> 
> The one HUGE thing I hate about Navigator so far and this has actually come up this evening is that it absolutely requires a connection to the headend to even boot. At least with Passport, you could run it without a cable hookup and manually skip the boot sequence and still have access to analog cable channels, manual timed recordings, and previously recorded shows.
> 
> 
> We're out of town this week and I have a handful of HD movies on my navigator box at home and it'd be REAL nice to have access to those here.



I know. I think it actually downloads data each time it boots. I get the feeling this in some way ties into SDV where data is sent for each "stream".


My box rebooted this afternoon. Took forever because it came up wrong. The guide and DVR list did not work at all. I just has analog channels(I was able to watch Racheal Ray on channel 3 but not 403). Eventually it went back to normal, but it was strange.


If you were able to watch analog cable, why won't this Navigator box boot? Unless where you are doesn't use Navigator?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14548252
> 
> 
> If you were able to watch analog cable, why won't this Navigator box boot? Unless where you are doesn't use Navigator?



Actually, at the time that I had tried this, which was only once, it was one of those rarities where all QAM services (digital cable, HSI, etc..) were dead but analog channels were still coming in fine and I had rebooted the box in an attempt to fix it. About the time I noticed the progress bar was stuck on passport, I hit exit and it kicked over to a watered down passport interface with a guide with no data, channel labels, logos, etc. It would only let me enter double digit channels and it'd tune into those analogs.


You can do almost the same with navigator, though I don't think the OCAP section will boot without a headend signal. And even then, once it gets to booting Mystro and you hit exit, it REALLY dumbs down to just about nothing. Real basic 80s era gui constantly saying 'this function not available' or some junk on every button press. no dvr functions, recordings locked out...


And actually, where I'm at now doesn't even have cable hookup available or else I would have definitely brought it along to try.


----------



## Jaydogg271




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/14546715
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland just add Big 10 HD to the list. It's up and running showing an old game with sidebars.




Just got home and saw that. I didn't even know Cox made a deal

Its Channel 62 on Sd and 724 on HD


Just in time for the season


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14548275
> 
> 
> Actually, at the time that I had tried this, which was only once, it was one of those rarities where all QAM services (digital cable, HSI, etc..) were dead but analog channels were still coming in fine and I had rebooted the box in an attempt to fix it. About the time I noticed the progress bar was stuck on passport, I hit exit and it kicked over to a watered down passport interface with a guide with no data, channel labels, logos, etc. It would only let me enter double digit channels and it'd tune into those analogs.
> 
> 
> You can do almost the same with navigator, though I don't think the OCAP section will boot without a headend signal. And even then, once it gets to booting Mystro and you hit exit, it REALLY dumbs down to just about nothing. Real basic 80s era gui. no dvr functions, recordings locked out...
> 
> 
> And actually, where I'm at now doesn't even have cable hookup available.



Ahhhh, I get it. I've done that to since I discovered it. Sometimes just the digital services wouldn't work so I found it easier to just hit Vol+/-*INFO on the front of the box and hit EXIT at the Passport screen. Much better than unhooking/rehooking everything up.


This probably wouldn't work at all on some of the newer OCAP HDC boxes, since they do not have the analog tuning component. Many of the new boxes are now made without analog tuning capabilities(which makes them less expensive). Since those of us in existing TWC areas have all-digital cable they could use those boxes. And OCAP is a major PITA!














I had the displeasure of using an OCRAP box for a few weeks last year and that was one of the problems-it wouldn't boot past the OCAP screen(usually with OCAP or E-13 on front). Anyway, that box went back(chained to my bumper[for hookbill]







) and I was able to get one of the last new 8300HD boxes(without OCAP).


I had the dumbed down Mystro(jeez, if Mystro Navigator were any dumber it would have to wear a helmet 24/7 in a padded room







) with just analog channels, but it came back about 10 minutes later.


I find the "old" font funny especially on the older Pioneer boxes. The IPG/UI looks like an old 80s video game.


----------



## nickdawg

Remember what I said about airing the Olympics on WKYC-DT2 during the browns game last weekend? WOIO is doing it this Saturday for Tennis since they are airing a Stephanie Tubbs Jones funeral from 11-1pm. I find it odd that they are dumping Tennis to their *24 HOUR NEWS AND WEATHER CHANNEL*. I'd think that it would make more sense to air the funeral on WOIO-2.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I'm EXTREMELY tempted to try and swap my 8300HDC for an 8300HD once I can get the dvr list dwindled to expendable shows. My aunt's still got her 8300(SD) with Mystro and it runs circles around the HDC in speed and it so far seems to not be ball-and-chained by the OCAP garbage.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jaydogg271* /forum/post/14548299
> 
> 
> Just got home and saw that. I didn't even know Cox made a deal
> 
> Its Channel 62 on Sd and 724 on HD
> 
> 
> Just in time for the season



Still no appearance on TWC. I'd say it will come later tonight. They added USA HD (RIP) on a Friday morning as well.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/14543950
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I don't know the brand or model of the antena. I got if from Lowes a few years ago. It is approx 6 ft long and has 6 'branches' coming out of it.
> 
> 
> The trees are next door to us so about 50-70 feet away. The roof is on the 2nd story roof. I don't know what type trees... I am pointing a few degrees to one side of the trees.
> 
> How do I address multipath interference or FM interference?



Multipath intereference is mainly controled by having a non-omnidirectional antenna. Also as the antenna probably has different directional sensitivities for different channels, the rotor may help tweak each channel with the multipath issue. A pre-amp, which you said you don't have, usually has an FM trap on it, plus it will improve your signal, so maybe you should look into one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14547392
> 
> 
> New slogan ad campaign:
> 
> 
> Tivo: Leave the thinking to us!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (since it "reads your mind" and decides what to record)



Isn't that the same as TW thinks like you do?










I agree, I never use it but many people love it. It's suppose to be "intuitive" but the fact is that it just "categorizes" your ratings and anything you give a thumbs up to, it will record.


TiVo actually allows you to rate how much you like a program by giving int 1,2, or 3 thumbs up. Now every once in a while I'll take a look at what is on the suggestions list and if I see something interesting I may record it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14548357
> 
> 
> Yeah. I'm EXTREMELY tempted to try and swap my 8300HDC for an 8300HD once I can get the dvr list dwindled to expendable shows. My aunt's still got her 8300(SD) with Mystro and it runs circles around the HDC in speed and it so far seems to not be ball-and-chained by the OCAP garbage.



8300 SD? No such animal. You mean she has the SA 8300 but just doesn't have HD service, correct?


And what is Mystro? I'm not familiar with that.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14549105
> 
> 
> 8300 SD? No such animal. You mean she has the SA 8300 but just doesn't have HD service, correct?
> 
> 
> And what is Mystro? I'm not familiar with that.



Yes. That is why I put the (SD) in parenthesis to differentiate that.


----------



## nickdawg

Where's the Big Ten Network? It's not on digital 333 or 77. And analog TVs without the box just show fuzz snow on channel 77.


Why do I get the feeling this is another temporary channel? TWC did the same thing with USA. It was added when it HAD to be and it looks like they are doing the same with BTN.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14551576
> 
> 
> Where's the Big Ten Network? It's not on digital 333 or 77. And analog TVs without the box just show fuzz snow on channel 77.
> 
> 
> Why do I get the feeling this is another temporary channel? TWC did the same thing with USA. It was added when it HAD to be and it looks like they are doing the same with BTN.



Quit being so paranoid. TWC did not do the same thing with USA. They said it was temporary for the Olympics, we just HOPED it wasn't. From hope it became permanent.


You know nickdawg I'm not going to defend TWC but dude, calm down, you're like a kid sitting in front of the package he can't open until the next day.


You will get it tomorrow. In the meantime have a beer, valium, or something to calm yourself down.


----------



## TYTONK

They said it will be available in time for the start of the Buckeyes game on Saturday.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14551898
> 
> 
> You know nickdawg I'm not going to defend TWC but dude, calm down, you're like a kid sitting in front of the package he can't open until the next day.
> 
> 
> You will get it tomorrow. In the meantime have a beer, valium, or something to calm yourself down.



You know me better than I thought, a bit creepy. Like Tivo knowing what to record by itself







! Must be rubbing off on its users or something...


I am excited. Not just for Ohio State but for the Zips on the secondary channel(334). You see I'm also a Zips fan so I'll have to find something to delete so I can DVR the second game. And when are they going to add this channel? At 6AM again? 15 minutes before the game? These boxes are funny and they don't always take changes right away. When they added another channel only one of my boxes got it right away. The older one in the bedroom didn't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14552643
> 
> 
> You know me better than I thought, a bit creepy. Like Tivo knowing what to record by itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ! Must be rubbing off on its users or something...
> 
> 
> I am excited. Not just for Ohio State but for the Zips on the secondary channel(334). You see I'm also a Zips fan so I'll have to find something to delete so I can DVR the second game. And when are they going to add this channel? At 6AM again? 15 minutes before the game? These boxes are funny and they don't always take changes right away. When they added another channel only one of my boxes got it right away. The older one in the bedroom didn't.



They have to send a hit out to the cable card (s). That happened with the CW, my TiVo HD got it but my S3 didn't. And when they added USA HD I didn't get it until I called and had them hit my cards.


Fortunately I have that contact at headend. That's a big help when stuff like that happens.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14552926
> 
> 
> They have to send a hit out to the cable card (s). That happened with the CW, my TiVo HD got it but my S3 didn't. And when they added USA HD I didn't get it until I called and had them hit my cards.
> 
> 
> Fortunately I have that contact at headend. That's a big help when stuff like that happens.



Yah, that OCAP box I had last year was like that too. Whenever they added any channels or changed something, I'd have to reboot it to get the changes. Each time it booted it connected to the head end so it would usually get the changes. Although I had to wait a day for TBS before the Indians game for the channel to be added. Non-OCAP Navigator has worked OK, the changes for USA came overnight and the channel was removed without rebooting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14552643
> 
> 
> You see I'm also a Zips fan so I'll have to find something to delete so I can DVR the second game. And when are they going to add this channel? At 6AM again? 15 minutes before the game? These boxes are funny and they don't always take changes right away. When they added another channel only one of my boxes got it right away. The older one in the bedroom didn't.



I'm almost afraid to ask, but what the heck is a Zip?


----------



## nickdawg

(SIGH) :hand on forehead:











A Zip is the University of Akron's football team. Actually I should say all the athletics teams, not just football. The mascot, Zippy the Kangaroo, was the Capital One Mascot of the Year earlier this year. http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+BW20080101 


[URL='http://media.ohio.com/images/270*413/zippy.jpg%5B/IMG']http://media.ohio.com/images/270*413/zippy.jpg[/IMG[/URL] ]


[IMG] [URL='http://media.ohio.com/images/270*250/zippy11.jpg%5B/IMG']http://media.ohio.com/images/270*250/zippy11.jpg[/IMG[/URL] ]

[IMG]http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/ncaa_logos/akron_logo_2003.gif


----------



## nickdawg

CRAP!! That post would be so much better if my pictures had actually shown up instead of just being links.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14553153
> 
> 
> (SIGH) :hand on forehead:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Zip is the University of Akron's football team. Actually I should say all the athletics teams, not just football. The mascot, Zippy the Kangaroo, was the Capital One Mascot of the Year earlier this year. http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+BW20080101
> 
> 
> [URL='http://media.ohio.com/images/270*413/zippy.jpg%5B/IMG']http://media.ohio.com/images/270*413/zippy.jpg[/IMG[/URL] ]
> 
> 
> [IMG] [URL='http://media.ohio.com/images/270*250/zippy11.jpg%5B/IMG']http://media.ohio.com/images/270*250/zippy11.jpg[/IMG[/URL] ]
> 
> [IMG]http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/ncaa_logos/akron_logo_2003.gif




Oh. Now I see why you're so excited. I mean, who wouldn't want to miss the Capitol One Mascot of the Year!!!


----------



## Smarty-pants

What's in *YOUR* wallet!?!

Is that a Kangaroo in your pocket, or...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Akron, OH (AUGUST 2008) - Time Warner Cable customers will be able to watch this Saturday's Ohio State University football game in high-definition on channel 433. This announcement follows yesterday's news that Time Warner Cable will carry the Big Ten Network in standard-definition on channel 77 and 333.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable will also offer customers an additional Big Ten Network channel that will air out-of-market games when an in-market game is on at the same time. That channel will be located at 334. This Saturday, the out-of-market game will be the University of Akron versus the University of Wisconsin, at 12 noon, the same time as the Ohio State game.
> 
> 
> More information on channel lineups can be found at www.twcguide.com or through the on-screen guide.
> 
> 
> In addition to this weekend's Ohio State University game versus Youngstown State, Big Ten Network is also scheduled to broadcast the September 20th Buckeyes game against Troy University.
> 
> 
> For more information about Time Warner Cable, please visit www.twcneo.com .



Channel 433(interesting that 432 is still open, ESPNU-HD anyone?). I wish there would be a channel 434 so I could see the Zips in HD as well. But I'm just glad I get to see it at all, unlike last year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14553418
> 
> 
> Channel 433(interesting that 432 is still open, ESPNU-HD anyone?). I wish there would be a channel 434 so I could see the Zips in HD as well. But I'm just glad I get to see it at all, unlike last year.



zzzzzzzz.......zzzzzzz........zzzzzzz


Someone please wake me if nickdawg says something interesting. Like USAHD on 450, FXHD on 451.


----------



## hookbill

For all you guys, TiVo informed me that it had detected a new channel, BIGOHIO, channel 333 but my guide has it listed on 333 and 334, and all I have is a gray screen.


There is no listing for an HD channel at this time. Other box/DVR owneres YMMV.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14555959
> 
> 
> For all you guys, TiVo informed me that it had detected a new channel, BIGOHIO, channel 333 but my guide has it listed on 333 and 334, and all I have is a gray screen.
> 
> 
> There is no listing for an HD channel at this time. Other box/DVR owneres YMMV.




I am getting Big Ten Network on Channel 77 on analog, but only by inputing 7-7 on my TV..


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14556459
> 
> 
> I am getting Big Ten Network on Channel 77 on analog, but only by inputing 7-7 on my TV..



So am I. Getting it fine via analog. Nothing on any of our boxes yet for digital.


----------



## schandorsky

I have the BTN on 77 and 433, but no 333 or 334.


----------



## hookbill

My upstairs TV (TiVo HD) now has 333, 334, and 434. My downstairs TiVo does not have anything.


My guide does not show 434, I punched it in and it's there.


And fwiw my Guide still shows USA HD on 450, no data and no picture but it's still on the guide.


----------



## paule123

No Tribe game on TV today? I thought it was a Fox Saturday game given the time is 3:55pm ET, but it's not on Fox (Fox is showing Phillies/Cubs at an unusual start time of 3:30pm ET). Not showing in the guide for STO, either.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Herrrrrrrrreeee come the BUCKEYES!









As for the Tribe, I looked on their website, and there is no televised affiliate mentioned in the schedule. So maybe it's not on tv at all? Weird...


----------



## ErieMarty

Showing up on channel 77...


Channels 333 (PSU) and 334 (OSU)


and 433 (OSU in HD)..


guess we don't get ALL the games being show in big 10..but at least its something.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14556699
> 
> 
> Herrrrrrrrreeee come the BUCKEYES!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Tribe, I looked on their website, and there is no televised affiliate mentioned in the schedule. So maybe it's not on tv at all? Weird...



was suppose to be part of Fox National game of the week.as the 2 power houses Seattle and Tribe square off..but something happened once the season started and STO or any local channels can't show the game..and Fox isn't showing it either


if they could have moved it to 7pm then..STO would have been able to show it


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14556699
> 
> 
> Herrrrrrrrreeee come the BUCKEYES!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Tribe, I looked on their website, and there is no televised affiliate mentioned in the schedule. So maybe it's not on tv at all? Weird...



Does MLB have the "sell out" rule? Game must be sold out to air locally? With the Tribe in the tank maybe they are not selling all seats.


I don't follow baseball so I have no clue what the rules are (on the field and off).


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14556663
> 
> 
> No Tribe game on TV today? I thought it was a Fox Saturday game given the time is 3:55pm ET, but it's not on Fox (Fox is showing Phillies/Cubs at an unusual start time of 3:30pm ET). Not showing in the guide for STO, either.



This nonsense with the Fox exclusive window on Saturday has got to stop. From what I understand the Fox scumbags intentionally start the games 5 minutes to 4pm (at 3:55) so they also screw the 1pm - 4pm "window" games from being telecast on MLB Extra Innings.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14556805
> 
> 
> Does MLB have the "sell out" rule? Game must be sold out to air locally? With the Tribe in the tank maybe they are not selling all seats.
> 
> 
> I don't follow baseball so I have no clue what the rules are (on the field and off).



No MLB does not have the sell out rule. As ErieMarty has said, I'm sure it's because of this stupid exclusive window Fox has with MLB on Saturday afternoons. There's a window from 1-4pm and another at 4pm - 7pm. So Fox cleverly schedules their games at 3:55pm to cover both.


Maybe it's changed but when I had an MLB.TV subscription to watch games online, Fox even blacked THOSE games out. Thus I cancelled my MLB.TV subscription.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14553088
> 
> 
> I'm almost afraid to ask, but what the heck is a Zip?



Nickdawg didn't go into the history behind Zips, Zippy, Kangaroo etc. Akron was the "birthplace" of vulcanized rubber and the tire companies. The staduim were the U of A football team plays (until the new one is built right on the university) is know as the rubber bowl. While I don't know all the history behind it; rubber/bouncy, kangaroo/bouncy, is how the mascott came about I think. Now don't ask me how we got the Akron Aeros!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14556825
> 
> 
> No MLB does not have the sell out rule. As ErieMarty has said, I'm sure it's because of this stupid exclusive window Fox has with MLB on Saturday afternoons. There's a window from 1-4pm and another at 4pm - 7pm. So Fox cleverly schedules their games at 3:55pm to cover both.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's changed but when I had an MLB.TV subscription to watch games online, Fox even blacked THOSE games out. Thus I cancelled my MLB.TV subscription.



According to the tribes website the game will be on MLB TV. Due to the FOX telecast, no regular television.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/14556827
> 
> 
> Nickdawg didn't go into the history behind Zips, Zippy, Kangaroo etc. Akron was the "birthplace" of vulcanized rubber and the tire companies. The staduim were the U of A football team plays (until the new one is built right on the university) is know as the rubber bowl. While I don't know all the history behind it; rubber/bouncy, kangaroo/bouncy, is how the mascott came about I think. Now don't ask me how we got the Akron Aeros!



Rubber Bowl? lol. A picture of a bowl full of condoms comes to mind.










I don't know if that term is still used but when I was a kid condoms were called rubbers.


Anyway, unfortunately for nickdawg he will just get his digital version of the Akron game, which to me looks like great pq.


----------



## hookbill

No Dolby 5.1? That sucks.


Football is really great in HD, and even though I'm not a college fan I will watch but 5.1 really makes you feel you're at the game. Come on B10HD, get with it.


----------



## nickdawg

The Akron game from earlier is on in HD now. Is it just me or is the PQ total ass on this channel? I'd swear I was watching 16:9 digital rather than HD. It's blurry swampy looking and there's mad macroblocking on action(which is every other shot). TWC's overcompressing of HD channels to pack them in is really showing. Maybe they shouldn't have added channel 77 for the analog only a--holes


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14560721
> 
> 
> The Akron game from earlier is on in HD now. Is it just me or is the PQ total ass on this channel? I'd swear I was watching 16:9 digital rather than HD. It's blurry swampy looking and there's mad macroblocking on action(which is every other shot). TWC's overcompressing of HD channels to pack them in is really showing. Maybe they shouldn't have added channel 77 for the analog only a--holes



I was watching the OSU game earlier in the day and the HD Quality looked good to me.


Maybe the Akron game wasn't shot in HD but Big 10 Network is still showing it on their HD channel


Just a thought


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14560978
> 
> 
> I was watching the OSU game earlier in the day and the HD Quality looked good to me.
> 
> 
> Maybe the Akron game wasn't shot in HD but Big 10 Network is still showing it on their HD channel
> 
> 
> Just a thought



If that was the case it would have looked like stretch o vision or had bars. nickdawg, did you catch the Akron game live on digital? I thought the pq was outstanding and you could really see the difference in pq on the OSU digital vs the analog version (which you don't get anyway.)


My complaint of course is no Dolby 5.1. To me that is such a huge part of the Football experience.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14556825
> 
> 
> No MLB does not have the sell out rule. As ErieMarty has said, I'm sure it's because of this stupid exclusive window Fox has with MLB on Saturday afternoons. There's a window from 1-4pm and another at 4pm - 7pm. So Fox cleverly schedules their games at 3:55pm to cover both.



Clever indeed, but not for the reasons you suspect.


Being a former L.A. person those games coming on at 1:00 are much better then at 10:00 am.


One of the things that I really don't like about living out here is the fact that when you have major sports events, things I want to watch live is they start so darn late to accomodate the West Coast. Like the All Star Game, or World Series. It doesn't get started until almost 9:00 pm out here, but at 6:00 pm on the West Coast you have enough time out there to get home from work, turn the game on and watch the whole thing. Even if it goes into extra innings you still will get to bed by 11:00 pm. And don't even think about recording it out here, someone or somehow you will find out the score before you get to it.


Watching football out there is better as well, you get up at 9:00 you got your pregame on, game starts at 10:00 am, next game at 1:30 pm and if you want you can catch Sunday night football at 5:30 pm. That still leaves time for prime time shows which all start on time.


IMHO major networks would do themselves a favor if they started these games at 7:00 pm.est. Yes you would lose a small portion of the viewers from the West Coast for an hour or so, but many will leave early and everyone tunes in around 6:00 out there. With the games so late out here I don't bother to tune in at all.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Question for the people with Dish Network:

On non-HD channels do you get the little black lines inbetween the bars on the side and the picture of the program I am asking because my dad and I have the same CRT-RPTV and he has direct tv and those black lines caused screen burn in.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14561109
> 
> 
> If that was the case it would have looked like stretch o vision or had bars. nickdawg, did you catch the Akron game live on digital? I thought the pq was outstanding and you could really see the difference in pq on the OSU digital vs the analog version (which you don't get anyway.)
> 
> 
> My complaint of course is no Dolby 5.1. To me that is such a huge part of the Football experience.



The replay on the HD channel was not stretched or bars, everything looked 16:9(even the graphics were towards the middle to be 4:3 safe). The picture looked blurry and there was macroblocking(breaking up into squares) whenever there is any action or even when graphics were flashy.


It's on again tomorrow at 1PM.


So hook, you're getting a digital and analog version? That's good news, maybe they're starting digital simulcast.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14563254
> 
> 
> So hook, you're getting a digital and analog version? That's good news, maybe they're starting digital simulcast.



Channel 77 is analog here, I assumed since you say all your channels are digital if you do get 77 then it would be the same as 333.


They said all along that it would be on expanded basic so for those people in your area that don't have digital capability they must be seeing analog. If your seeing it it's probably upgraded analog to digital. 333 is not a mirror of 77, it's dolby 2.0. and pq indicates better quality so I think it's a seperate signal.


----------



## nickdawg

I posted about this over in the main forum and I heard that they didn't have the HD truck for the Akron/Wisconsin game. It was 16:9 digital, which explains everything. The game on now looks fantastic.


That's good news that they're using that digital feed. Sounds like they might not have everything set up for digital simulcast so they're still sending analog on 77. Here they're using the digital feed for both and converting it for analog.


----------



## hookbill

I've noticed over time that I've lost that "wow" feeling that HD gave me the first time I saw it. I got it again when I got my LG720 LCD 37" display but as time has gone on I just kind of stopped thinking about it.


So today, with no other sporting events on that I'm interested in I turn on WGN which is on analog channel 13.


Oh my God what a horrible picture. Can this be what is was like before? I watch other analog channels like FX and USA but this, is horrible!


Did I really watch TV that looked like this?


nickdawg, check it out on the digital upgrade. What have you got?


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14568746
> 
> 
> Can this be what is was like before?
> 
> Did I really watch TV that looked like this?



I think analog signals look worse on digital Tv's than on analog TV's. Something to do with the contrast and brightness settings I would guess. After all they were made to display digital signals. I bet if I pulled out my old 27" RCA console that is still tucked away in the basement, it would look better than the analog signal on my new Phillips. Unfortunately, the RCA (20 years old) would have probably outlasted the Phillips (3 years old), and cost half as much too







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/14569163
> 
> 
> I think analog signals look worse on digital Tv's than on analog TV's. Something to do with the contrast and brightness settings I would guess. After all they were made to display digital signals. I bet if I pulled out my old 27" RCA console that is still tucked away in the basement, it would look better than the analog signal on my new Phillips. Unfortunately, the RCA (20 years old) would have probably outlasted the Phillips (3 years old), and cost half as much too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Two points. First, if you recall in my post I said other analog channels didn't look that bad. And basically what happens is my TiVo converts the signal to digital 480p otherwise HDMI would hardly be affective.


I notice during the commercials it didn't appear as bad as the actual game so I don't know. All I do know is that game looked awful.


----------



## Speedskater

Anybody else had a lot of break-up and glitches from channel 19 HD the last few days? I get it through Cox, the STB has a lot of stutter and the TV tuner can't always find a signal.


----------



## Tim Lones

Using the Zenith DTT900 and the Terk HDTVa Indoor antenna, I pulled in Columbus for the first time this morning..WBNS-10, WTTE-28 and WSFJ-51 all came in for awhile, as well as KDKA-2 and WPMY-22 Pittsburgh and WTOV-9 Steubenville..


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/14571683
> 
> 
> Using the Zenith DTT900 and the Terk HDTVa Indoor antenna, I pulled in Columbus for the first time this morning..WBNS-10, WTTE-28 and WSFJ-51 all came in for awhile, as well as KDKA-2 and WPMY-22 Pittsburgh and WTOV-9 Steubenville..



wow! if you don't mind me asking:

where in your house is the antenna, how well do you receive the Cleveland stations, and where are you located in Canton?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> This Saturday, the out-of-market game will be the University of Akron versus the University of Wisconsin, at 12 noon, the same time as the Ohio State game.



Kinda ironic that an Akron game is considered "out of market". Only one BTN "alt. channel" on cable!?! With satellite, you get all the BTN feeds in SD & HD on alternate channels.


----------



## JJkizak

I have the hicups too with a signal strength of 98 but it is a hugely rapid fade that causes the not quite dropout but sometimes loose everything. Speculating antenna trouble or transmitter trouble as everybody else is OK. Then again this is the fab digital age. This is with a Sony 46XBR2 side by side with a Sony 37XBR6.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14568746
> 
> 
> I've noticed over time that I've lost that "wow" feeling that HD gave me the first time I saw it. I got it again when I got my LG720 LCD 37" display but as time has gone on I just kind of stopped thinking about it.
> 
> 
> So today, with no other sporting events on that I'm interested in I turn on WGN which is on analog channel 13.
> 
> 
> Oh my God what a horrible picture. Can this be what is was like before? I watch other analog channels like FX and USA but this, is horrible!
> 
> 
> Did I really watch TV that looked like this?
> 
> 
> nickdawg, check it out on the digital upgrade. What have you got?



Everything over 15 looks better. Everything under 15 looks like ass. The "digital" locals are the worst. I recorded Prison Break on WJW SD last night and it looked about the quality of You Tube. The colors didn't even look right. The regular analog channel without the box actually looks better. Plus FOX started letterboxing like NBC and blowing it up to fit 16:9 made it even worse.


WORST:

1. WBNX

2. Ch 29/35 (low power independent-cable 14)

3. WJW

4. WNEO

5. WVIZ

6. WLDI


The cable networks look better. I think TWC is getting digital feeds for many of them now or else they're outputting better than the locals. Although some tend to look a bit overcompressed(I noticed it alot on FSN).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14576336
> 
> 
> 2. Ch 29/35 (low power independent-cable 14)



Don't be so quick to blame TWC on this one. I'm pretty sure "The CAT" gets its video equipment from the Radio Shack across the street from their radio studios (WNIR). OK, so maybe they don't, but it's close.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14576336
> 
> 
> 6. WLDI



That's WDLI/17 Canton, which shouldn't be technically deficient, and TWC can use (if they care) its DT signal at 4:3...


----------



## ajstan99

The WOW Basic HD lineup is adding six channels on 9/16. Moving down from the "HD Pak" tier are Food Network HD, HGTV HD, and National Geographic HD. New channels include FX HD, Fox News HD, and History Channel HD.


No announcements regarding the HD Pak tier, other than the price going down to $7.99/mo. All that appears to be left are HDNet, HD Theater, HDNet Movies, Wealth TV HD, and NFL Network HD (does not include games).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14577045
> 
> 
> The WOW Basic HD lineup is adding six channels on 9/16. Moving down from the "HD Pak" tier are Food Network HD, HGTV HD, and National Geographic HD. New channels include *FX HD*, Fox News HD, and History Channel HD.
> 
> 
> No announcements regarding the HD Pak tier, other than the price going down to $7.99/mo. All that appears to be left are HDNet, HD Theater, HDNet Movies, Wealth TV HD, and NFL Network HD (does not include games).



TW's HD Tier Pack is a total of 4 stations, Mojo, Hdnet, Hdnet Movies, and Discovery HD.


And you're getting FXHD just in time for the Shield! Why don't you just open the wound and pour salt in it.


I hate you.










Not really, just jealous.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/14574528
> 
> 
> wow! if you don't mind me asking:
> 
> where in your house is the antenna, how well do you receive the Cleveland stations, and where are you located in Canton?



I am located in the Wertz/9th Street Southwest neighborhood roughly in between Aultman Hospital and Giant Eagle/Raff Road. I have a 12 year old Sharp 13 inch TV in my computer room with the antenna in front of a North facing window..The most consistent digital signals..


17 WDLI Canton (39)

21 WFMJ Youngstown (20)

27 WKBN Youngstown (41)

49 WEAO Akron (50)

67 WOAC Canton (47)


Cleveland is pretty much hit or miss for me. At various times, I receive


5 WEWS (15)

8 WJW (31)

55 WBNX (30)

61 WQHS (34)


43 WUAB (28) Ive seen once


Never have I seen


3 WKYC (2-Which is why I never see 3 because of their current digital allocation)


19 WOIO (10-Again-VHF and weak signal)


25 WVIZ (26) Flea Powered


One other channel I get fairly consistently is WOUC-44 (35) PBS in Cambridge, though not every night.


I also can get WNEO-45 (46) depending on antenna placement


If I get anything out of the area its usually early morning or late night.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14576971
> 
> 
> Don't be so quick to blame TWC on this one. I'm pretty sure "The CAT" gets its video equipment from the Radio Shack across the street from their radio studios (WNIR). OK, so maybe they don't, but it's close.



The lousy analog picture is no doubt the station's fault. But TWC makes it worse by "converting" that awful analog signal to digital. The analog signal is bad enough looking with interference and horizontal lines in the picture. Then they make it fake digital which usually leads to pixellation. Plus the picture tends to have a "flickery" effect to it.


I was looking forward to the DTV transition since it originally meant certain death to low power TV stations. No such luck, as they get an extension...



> Quote:
> That's WDLI/17 Canton, which shouldn't be technically deficient, and TWC can use (if they care) its DT signal at 4:3...



As of right now, TWC is still using SD fiber feeds from the stations. I don't think they have switched to downconverting and center cutting the HD feeds yet. Only some satellite providers are currently doing that. My guess is TWC will wait until the evening of February 16, 2009 to make the switch to downconvert HD broadcasting.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14577219
> 
> 
> And you're getting FXHD just in time for the Shield! Why don't you just open the wound and pour salt in it.



Ehh, the Shield is still the same old SD as always anyway. It was actually kind of hard to watch tonight. But mainly because -- even though it's been the best show on TV for years -- I no longer care. They've just waited too long.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14577045
> 
> 
> The WOW Basic HD lineup is adding six channels on 9/16. Moving down from the "HD Pak" tier are Food Network HD, HGTV HD, and National Geographic HD. New channels include FX HD, Fox News HD, and History Channel HD.
> 
> 
> No announcements regarding the HD Pak tier, other than the price going down to $7.99/mo. All that appears to be left are HDNet, HD Theater, HDNet Movies, Wealth TV HD, and NFL Network HD (does not include games).



TWC is the scum of the earth!!!!


Seriously. I bet if Adelphia still existed today they would be smoking TWC in the number of HD channels.


But on the other hand, WOW really sucks since they are charging $8 for those stupid channels. That HD Ripoff Tier is about $6.95 on TWC. That much for four sucky channels, no thanks.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14577831
> 
> 
> As of right now, TWC is still using SD fiber feeds from the stations. I don't think they have switched to downconverting and center cutting the HD feeds yet. Only some satellite providers are currently doing that. My guess is TWC will wait until the evening of February 16, 2009 to make the switch to downconvert HD broadcasting.



In the case of WDLI/17, it doesn't matter, at least now. WDLI's main TBN feed (17-1) is already in 4:3 480i...though I think the TBN folks do plan an HD feed at SOME point, I'm pretty sure it isn't up yet (I don't really spend any time watching it).


I doubt there's a fiber feed from WDLI's digital facility near Akron's Rolling Acres Mall to TWC. The bad analog picture is likely a direct pickup from the analog OTA Channel 17 transmitter, which I believe is still out in Louisville.


Even if I'm wrong in that guess, analog 17 goes away at the transition.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14578138
> 
> 
> In the case of WDLI/17, it doesn't matter, at least now. WDLI's main TBN feed (17-1) is already in 4:3 480i...though I think the TBN folks do plan an HD feed at SOME point, I'm pretty sure it isn't up yet (I don't really spend any time watching it).
> 
> 
> I doubt there's a fiber feed from WDLI's digital facility near Akron's Rolling Acres Mall to TWC. The bad analog picture is likely a direct pickup from the analog OTA Channel 17 transmitter, which I believe is still out in Louisville.
> 
> 
> Even if I'm wrong in that guess, analog 17 goes away at the transition.



Correct. WDLI will be on their new digital channel(39 I believe) after the transition. WKYC will be moving to digital 17. If they do ever plan an HD feed(I don't know why it would matter for that channel, but it could happen) the HD end will look like crap. I've pulled 17 in OTA and they have four multicast channels plus the regular feed on DT1.


I think you're right about how they receive it. I don't watch this channel ever but flipping through I've seen WDLI "out" as in a black screen with static noise. Seems like that would be an OTA thing. I just flipped over now. Terrible PQ. Ghosting on text and even faces. Then I went to channel 391(TWC added TBN cable feed) and it's night and day. Eventually TWC will have to switch to a downconversion of digital(or in this case, pass the digital 4:3 through untouched) since those analog channels will be going away, especially if they're getting it OTA. I think it's only the bigger networks that get direct feeds, or are they OTA as well?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14578138
> 
> 
> I doubt there's a fiber feed from WDLI's digital facility near Akron's Rolling Acres Mall to TWC. The bad analog picture is likely a direct pickup from the analog OTA Channel 17 transmitter, which I believe is still out in Louisville.



Out of curiosity, does anyone know the current operating status of the WDLI facility out on Route 62? I drive by the place fairly often, and it looks like a deserted transmitter site - the "WDLI Channel 17" sign has been removed, and there are rarely cars in the parking lot.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14578229
> 
> 
> Eventually TWC will have to switch to a downconversion of digital(or in this case, pass the digital 4:3 through untouched) since those analog channels will be going away, especially if they're getting it OTA. I think it's only the bigger networks that get direct feeds, or are they OTA as well?



Most of the major local stations have a direct fiber feed to the big local cable systems. This gives them A) more flexibility, and B) the ability to stay "on the air" on cable even if the transmitter has problems. I'm pretty sure 3/5/8 are fed this way, and I'm not sure about 19/43.


Others, the cable system picks up off the air. I'm pretty sure stations like WBNX are picked up off air. And I know somewhere in here, we determined that the former Adelphia-now-TWC Cleveland was even picking up the puny signal of WVIZ-DT off air...using those big antennas they have at the headend, of course


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14578636
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, does anyone know the current operating status of the WDLI facility out on Route 62? I drive by the place fairly often, and it looks like a deserted transmitter site - the "WDLI Channel 17" sign has been removed, and there are rarely cars in the parking lot.



As far as I know, it's basically an unattended transmitter site now, being operated out of TBN/WDLI's new local studio complex on Rt. 261, just north of Rolling Acres Mall.


Take I-77, get off at Vernon Odom Blvd. (Wooster Road), go up the hill, turn right at 261, and it's about a mile or less down the road on the left. The place looks like a palace from the outside, and is very clearly marked with Trinity's name. It's at the foot of their own tower, which is massive.


I'm assuming they remote control the 17 transmitter from there. I know WDLI had an application to move analog 17 to that site, but it's basically a moot point now.


----------



## paule123

DIRECTV and TiVo to Launch New HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service

Wednesday September 3, 7:00 am ET


EL SEGUNDO and ALVISO, Calif., Sept. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- DIRECTV, Inc. (Nasdaq: DTV - News), the nation's leading satellite television service provider, and TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO - News), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), announced today that they have extended their current agreement, which includes the development, marketing and distribution of a new HD DIRECTV DVR featuring the TiVo® service, as well as the extension of mutual intellectual property arrangements.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14579915
> 
> 
> Most of the major local stations have a direct fiber feed to the big local cable systems. This gives them A) more flexibility, and B) the ability to stay "on the air" on cable even if the transmitter has problems. I'm pretty sure 3/5/8 are fed this way, and I'm not sure about 19/43.
> 
> 
> Others, the cable system picks up off the air. I'm pretty sure stations like WBNX are picked up off air. And I know somewhere in here, we determined that the former Adelphia-now-TWC Cleveland was even picking up the puny signal of WVIZ-DT off air...using those big antennas they have at the headend, of course



Makes sense that the "big three" stations are fiber feed. I remember reading here that WEWS was having problems and it only happened on TWC and someone even commented that WEWS was fixing the problems with the HD feed to TWC. It's been working great since then.


I think WVIZ still may be OTA. Flipping through I've seen WVIZ and it's multicast channels "out". WNEO usually works fine although it used to have some stuttering/freezing problems. WBNX is a toss up. I've seen freezing, stuttering and pixelation some times, mostly when it was first added. WBNX may be a direct fiber feed since back in the fall of 2006 they said something about having a HD feed on cable before it would be available OTA. But of course that never happened...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14580033
> 
> 
> DIRECTV and TiVo to Launch New HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service
> 
> Wednesday September 3, 7:00 am ET
> 
> 
> EL SEGUNDO and ALVISO, Calif., Sept. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- DIRECTV, Inc. (Nasdaq: DTV - News), the nation's leading satellite television service provider, and TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO - News), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), announced today that they have extended their current agreement, which includes the development, marketing and distribution of a new HD DIRECTV DVR featuring the TiVo® service, as well as the extension of mutual intellectual property arrangements.
> 
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443



That should make a whole lot of DTV people very happy.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14577219
> 
> 
> TW's HD Tier Pack is a total of 4 stations, Mojo, Hdnet, Hdnet Movies, and Discovery HD.
> 
> 
> And you're getting FXHD just in time for the Shield! Why don't you just open the wound and pour salt in it.
> 
> 
> I hate you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, just jealous.



If it makes you feel any better, I'll be watching it on an 8300HDC SARA box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14582195
> 
> 
> If it makes you feel any better, I'll be watching it on an 8300HDC SARA box.



You have a box with SARA!!! Why don't you just open the wound and pour salt in it.


Now _I_ hate you.










Not really, just jealous.










You're lucky it's not Navigator. I _*WISH*_ we had SARA!!


But I wouldn't take a HDC box if it was the last box on earth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14582290
> 
> 
> You have a box with SARA!!! Why don't you just open the wound and pour salt in it.
> 
> 
> Now _I_ hate you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not really, just jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're lucky it's not Navigator. I _*WISH*_ we had SARA!!
> 
> 
> But I wouldn't take a HDC box if it was the last box on earth.



I'd open up the SARA box and pour salt in the worthless pos.


And in an HDC box? Maybe it works in those boxes.










nickdawg you should be jealous of me. I have a TiVo S3 and a TiVo HD.


Did you not see the post about Direct TV signing up with TiVo? Do you know why? Because despite the fact that they have all the HD service in the world they have a huge bunch of customers, I was one of them, who had Direct-TiVos who got p.o.'d and went to CABLE so they could have a TiVo!


Not only that, this time they are going to give it full TiVo features. When I had it in 2004 the charge for their TiVo DVR was 4.00 a month and had dual recording features! With cable it was 12.00 and at that time TiVo on cable could only record one show at a time. Then along came Rupert Murdock who just about ruined the company, almost sold it to Dish, and dumped TiVo.


If I only had a line of site......Naw, the wife would kill me. Then divorce me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14583472
> 
> 
> I'd open up the SARA box and pour salt in the worthless pos.
> 
> 
> And in an HDC box? Maybe it works in those boxes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nickdawg you should be jealous of me. I have a TiVo S3 and a TiVo HD.
> 
> 
> Did you not see the post about Direct TV signing up with TiVo? Do you know why? Because despite the fact that they have all the HD service in the world they have a huge bunch of customers, I was one of them, who had Direct-TiVos who got p.o.'d and went to CABLE so they could have a TiVo!
> 
> 
> Not only that, this time they are going to give it full TiVo features. When I had it in 2004 the charge for their TiVo DVR was 4.00 a month and had dual recording features! With cable it was 12.00 and at that time TiVo on cable could only record one show at a time. Then along came Rupert Murdock who just about ruined the company, almost sold it to Dish, and dumped TiVo.
> 
> 
> If I only had a line of site......Naw, the wife would kill me. Then divorce me.



What a shock!!! Mr. Rupert (ARRRR) Murdoch ruined things.







He's bastard, for reasons other than this.


Moving on, in 2004 I had a DVR for $4.95 complete with dual tuning recording.


Right now I'd be willing to have my entire hard drive nuked if it was necessary to install SARA.


----------



## ajstan99

Hey Guys - all kidding aside, what's the genesis of the beef with the HDC and SARA? For an extra $5 per month over the cost of an HD tuner box, I get dual tuners, simple program recording (including first run-only for TV series) decent upscaling of 480i content for non-HD channels, and very good HD quality. I can even add an external HDD if I want to increase recording capacity.


For the first couple of weeks I had it, playback was sometimes choppy on some recorded HD programs making them either annoying or unwatchable, but since then, it's been virtually flawless.


This is my first DVR, so I'm sure there's a lot to learn. What am I missing by not upgrading to something different/better?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14584621
> 
> 
> Hey Guys - all kidding aside, what's the genesis of the beef with the HDC and SARA? For an extra $5 per month over the cost of an HD tuner box, I get dual tuners, simple program recording (including first run-only for TV series) decent upscaling of 480i content for non-HD channels, and very good HD quality. I can even add an external HDD if I want to increase recording capacity.
> 
> 
> For the first couple of weeks I had it, playback was sometimes choppy on some recorded HD programs making them either annoying or unwatchable, but since then, it's been virtually flawless.
> 
> 
> This is my first DVR, so I'm sure there's a lot to learn. What am I missing by not upgrading to something different/better?



I've never owned a Mercedes, BMW, or a Cadillac. No Lexus, Rolls Royce, nothing like that.


I drive a 2009 Toyota Corolla. I've always just drove pretty basic cars. So I don't know all the things I'm missing.


I like my Corolla. It gets 34.6 miles per gallon on average. No 4 wheel drive but it does have anti lock breaks, something I never had before. It also has defrosting mirrors.


A TiVo is the same thing. Easier search features, Guide Guru's (I don't use them) Multi room viewing, you can download avi files and play them on your TiVo. Tivo has a "wishlist" for perhaps a movie that you would like to record in HD but isn't playing now, however should it come around TiVo will record it for you.


There are so many things that TiVo does that a cable DVR doesn't I really don't have the time to go into every detail. I just touched on the basics.


Now here is the other side of the coin: If you are happy with the DVR you have, it works dependably for you, and you've gotten use to navigating with it then maybe you don't need a TiVo. Kind of like my Corolla.










To be honest if the SA 8300 I had, and I had 3 of them would have worked properly I wouldn't have invested in the TiVo. However I started with TiVo with Direct TV so I knew how much better it was in the first place. Add that to the fact that my wife loved TiVo and hated the SA 8300 for me I had no choice.


My SA 8300 did not work properly. None of them did. It failed to record shows I requested frequently. There was no way to see certain types of conflicts. I constantly got only partial recordings, though I will admit that happened after I hooked up my SA 8300 approved eSATA.


Now if my Corolla acted up like that I'd get rid of it. And that's what I did as soon as TiVo came out with an HD model.


There is a bit of an illusion that you pay more by purchasing a TiVo, but as time goes on it does pay for itself, including the service charge. My DVR was 7.00 per month and my DVR service was 8.00 per month. I don't pay those anymore. I pay 6.00 a month for my two cable cards, well I guess 12.00 because I have two TiVos.


nickdawg and I do a great deal of kidding each other, but he knows really what the better DVR is. He just doesn't want to shell out the money for it. And the point is, or was until Navigator rolled around he was happy with his DVR. And I say to anyone if your DVR works well and you don't experience the type of problems I did, keep what you got.


I can tell you that there are many people out there who experienced the same problems I did. Yet some, even in my area still use the SA 8300 and don't have any problems.


I honestly thought that the warped pictures and macroblocking I was observing were broadcast related until I got my S3.










So I'm happy with my Corolla. I don't need a Mercedes. If you're happy with your DVR, same thing applies.


----------



## ajstan99

Thanks, Hook. Great summary. Really appreciate the time you took to respond. The multi-room viewing would be great, but I guess I'll stick with the "Corolla" for now.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14584941
> 
> 
> nickdawg and I do a great deal of kidding each other, but he knows really what the better DVR is. He just doesn't want to shell out the money for it. And the point is, or was until Navigator rolled around he was happy with his DVR. And I say to anyone if your DVR works well and you don't experience the type of problems I did, keep what you got.



I say we take up a collection to buy a TiVo HD for nickdawg. I'll throw in the first $10.... If we get enough, we can even cover the first year of TiVo service, but it's up to him to handle the CableCard charges.....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14582115
> 
> 
> I think WVIZ still may be OTA. Flipping through I've seen WVIZ and it's multicast channels "out". WNEO usually works fine although it used to have some stuttering/freezing problems. WBNX is a toss up. I've seen freezing, stuttering and pixelation some times, mostly when it was first added. WBNX may be a direct fiber feed since back in the fall of 2006 they said something about having a HD feed on cable before it would be available OTA. But of course that never happened...



I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that anything outside 3/5/8 is being picked up OTA, including WBNX. They never did establish the cable-only HD feed, and only appeared on TWC long after they'd lit up the OTA WBNX-DT signal.


----------



## pimlottc

Is there any good place in Cleveland for antennas and such for OTA, or should I just go order online?


Also interested to hear about experiences and equipment used for those close to the city, particularly the near west side. Thanks.


----------



## JJkizak

Pretty hard to find nice big antennas in stock and if you order from a brick retailer they will nail you with shipping oversize. I ordered mine from MCM Electronics and they ship UPS even with huge ones.

JJK


----------



## ZManCartFan

I'm not sure what caliber of antenna you're looking for, but Radio Shack used to have a pretty good selection at most of their stores. I picked up a 160" antenna for use over my garage in Medina at RS three or four years ago for a pretty good price. According to their website, it's still in stock.


But you didn't say if you were looking for an indoor or outdoor antenna. I'm sure people here could give you advice either way. I would imagine from the near west side, you'd do better with an outdoor antenna if you could get away with it since most of the Cleveland OTAs are coming from the Parma antenna farm.


Have you checked out antennaweb.org for your specific address? It might give you a pretty good feel for what you'll need.


----------



## GregF2

Nice - sounds like most of the greater Cleveland area, at least Amherst TW cable service is down. Consipracy theory - they planned it during the Republican Prime Time convention address










TW is so unreliable!


----------



## Vchat20

I'm just curious if anyone has the 'dyslexic guide' glitch today in NEO TW territory?


TNTHD(ch441) views STOHD and STOHD(ch435) views TNTHD. Dunno if it's yet another mystro bug or a headend mixup. In the legacy TW area over here in Warren. Must be fun for people with lots of scheduled recordings on those channels. 'Charmed' fans get a boring Indians daygame.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14594087
> 
> 
> I'm just curious if anyone has the 'dyslexic guide' glitch today in NEO TW territory?
> 
> 
> TNTHD(ch441) views STOHD and STOHD(ch435) views TNTHD. Dunno if it's yet another mystro bug or a headend mixup. In the legacy TW area over here in Warren. Must be fun for people with lots of scheduled recordings on those channels. 'Charmed' fans get a boring Indians daygame.



I'm not sure if TW is on the same page concerning the guides still. Inundated could probably speak on that better then I can.


As I understand it original TW people who use to have passport had a guide that allowed you to pick first run only. Inundated and I did not have that type of guide and even though we had SARA software it was capable of allowing you to chose that option IF the guide had it.


So for a while we were probably on 2, maybe 3 guides if you count the former Comcast people and the moto box.


Anyway if there was a glitch in your guide that's the vendors problem. Cable companies outsource their guides to vendors.


BTW do you have SARA or Navigator. And please don't say Passport, nickdawg will go nuts.














You don't need a DVR to find this out you can go to the SA Webpage and look up your box. It will give you instructions on how to bring up your diagnostic screen.


Of course with TiVo we don't have to jump up and push buttons and use remotes at the same time to access diagnostic screen. It's simply TiVo/Settings/System Information/Diagnostics. Right from the remote.


----------



## bassguitarman

What was with the WKYC broadcast of the Giants/Redskins game last night. Some of the HD seemed very poor almost like they didnt have enough light for the cameras.

Dave


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14594565
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if TW is on the same page concerning the guides still. Inundated could probably speak on that better then I can.



I think you about covered it. I'm still with SARA on both my aging boxes, my SD box and the 8000HD DVR. Nothing has changed.


And here in the former Adelphia region, Bath/Copley offshoot, I'm getting STOHD on 435 and TNTHD on 441, as it should be. Well, at least I think that's STOHD on 435...they're in their infomercials.


I'm pretty sure everyone's now aligned with TWC in the digital cable range...that the process is long complete.


BTW, Big Ten's HD channel is all HD as far as I can tell, give or take old/upconverted sources.


----------



## JJkizak

I had no trouble with the game on 3.1 OTA.

JJK


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pimlottc* /forum/post/14588264
> 
> 
> Is there any good place in Cleveland for antennas and such for OTA, or should I just go order online?
> 
> 
> Also interested to hear about experiences and equipment used for those close to the city, particularly the near west side. Thanks.



You might try "Philcap Electronic Suppliers" in Akron.

330.253.2109
www.philcap.com 


I don't know if they are still open, but they may be the last of the local stores. I have purchased TV antennas from them in the past.


----------



## G3VIZIO

What's the deal with TWC in NE Ohio and the HD Sports channel that has a blue screen and all you see is HD Sports. There is a complete program listing for this channel but you can't watch anything..maybe this was covered before and I missed it..


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14596301
> 
> 
> What's the deal with TWC in NE Ohio and the HD Sports channel that has a blue screen and all you see is HD Sports. There is a complete program listing for this channel but you can't watch anything..maybe this was covered before and I missed it..



If that's Fox Sports Net HD, I don't think that they have had any programing since the basketball season ended.


----------



## terryfoster

IIRC FSN Ohio HD is a "game only" type of a channel regardless of your provider due to a limitation on FSN's distribution system. This is currently being resolved and we may soon see FSN Ohio HD as a full time simulcast of FSN Ohio.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14596918
> 
> 
> IIRC FSN Ohio HD is a "game only" type of a channel regardless of your provider due to a limitation on FSN's distribution system. This is currently being resolved and we may soon see FSN Ohio HD as a full time simulcast of FSN Ohio.



Yes..it was FSN Ohio...Thanks for the info..I thought I might have been missing out on something.


----------



## G3VIZIO

Ok..next question..TWC in Northeast Ohio and I have the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR 8300? Why doesn't pay per view or on demand work???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14597677
> 
> 
> Ok..next question..TWC in Northeast Ohio and I have the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR 8300? Why doesn't pay per view or on demand work???



Because you have a SA HD DVR 8300. They really suck.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14597712
> 
> 
> Because you have a SA HD DVR 8300. They really suck.



I expected an answer like that from you... Are you telling me it won't work with that unit at all? Do I need to call and get something else? How can they advertise the service if it isn't attainable with their equipment? For those of you that can use On Demand and Pay Per View what box do you have? Must be HD!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14597677
> 
> 
> Ok..next question..TWC in Northeast Ohio and I have the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR 8300? Why doesn't pay per view or on demand work???



Don't listen to Mr. Hookbill. He'll probably suggest you go buy a Tivo S3HD(which doesn't support PPV or VOD)










First thing I would try is unplugging the box. Check cable connections to make sure they're secure. Plug it back in and see if the reboot fixed it.


If not, a call to customer service is needed. Maybe they can fix it over the phone. If that won't work, they'll order a truck roll since something may be wrong with your wiring or outside. Signal levels may not be strong enough.


The worst case scenario would be the box has to be replaced. That's not good. The new boxes used by TWC for HD are the SA 8300HD*C* boxes, which use multi-stream cable card and OCAP. Plus these boxes use the new OCAP version of Navigator, which is full of bugs.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14598162
> 
> 
> Don't listen to Mr. Hookbill. He'll probably suggest you go buy a Tivo S3HD(which doesn't support PPV or VOD)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First thing I would try is unplugging the box. Check cable connections to make sure they're secure. Plug it back in and see if the reboot fixed it.
> 
> 
> If not, a call to customer service is needed. Maybe they can fix it over the phone. If that won't work, they'll order a truck roll since something may be wrong with your wiring or outside. Signal levels may not be strong enough.
> 
> 
> The worst case scenario would be the box has to be replaced. That's not good. The new boxes used by TWC for HD are the SA 8300HD*C* boxes, which use multi-stream cable card and OCAP. Plus these boxes use the new OCAP version of Navigator, which is full of bugs.



Signal strength may be an issue...my local analog stations are fuzzy coming through the cable.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14598255
> 
> 
> Signal strength may be an issue...my local analog stations are fuzzy coming through the cable.



That's definitely a sign of weak signal. After I had service awhile back, I noticed the PQ on the TV I have connected to analog only improved, especially the locals. If you check the diagnostics screen you'll see the QAM SNR number, which should be in the upper 30s. When I had trouble it was around 30 and fluctuating. VOD didn't work and even digital would drop out and break up. TWC pulled a new line from the street and replaced the drop. PQ improved and the SNR is now around 35-37. VOD has also worked OK.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14597677
> 
> 
> Ok..next question..TWC in Northeast Ohio and I have the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR 8300? Why doesn't pay per view or on demand work???



Are you getting premium channels that you're not paying for (i.e. HBO, Starz, etc)? If so then your box isn't fully "authorized" or something like that so you get a bunch of cool channels, but PPV and VOD is broken.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14594565
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if TW is on the same page concerning the guides still. Inundated could probably speak on that better then I can.
> 
> 
> As I understand it original TW people who use to have passport had a guide that allowed you to pick first run only. Inundated and I did not have that type of guide and even though we had SARA software it was capable of allowing you to chose that option IF the guide had it.
> 
> 
> So for a while we were probably on 2, maybe 3 guides if you count the former Comcast people and the moto box.
> 
> 
> Anyway if there was a glitch in your guide that's the vendors problem. Cable companies outsource their guides to vendors.
> 
> 
> BTW do you have SARA or Navigator. And please don't say Passport, nickdawg will go nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't need a DVR to find this out you can go to the SA Webpage and look up your box. It will give you instructions on how to bring up your diagnostic screen.
> 
> 
> Of course with TiVo we don't have to jump up and push buttons and use remotes at the same time to access diagnostic screen. It's simply TiVo/Settings/System Information/Diagnostics. Right from the remote.



Sorry for my vocabulary. Mystro=Navigator. Same old SA8300HDC. These channels have been the way they should be for ages and the guide lineup has not changed one bit.


The problem is when you select TNTHD(ch441) from the guide, it'll tune, the actual info bar will still read TNTHD and whatever should be on at that time, but the actual video/audio is STOHD. The reverse is the same for STOHD. That channel in the guide will bring in the video/audio of TNTHD.


Though I haven't had a chance to see if it has been fixed or not today.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14598161
> 
> 
> I expected an answer like that from you



I'm glad I didn't disappoint you!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14598162
> 
> 
> Don't listen to Mr. Hookbill. He'll probably suggest you go buy a Tivo S3HD(which doesn't support PPV or VOD)



Now nickdawg this really upsets me. I would never suggest somebody get a TiVo for VOD. Matter of fact you know darn good and well I tell people that if you are satisfied with the cable company DVR then stay with it. If you want something that runs circles around the cable DVR, then you get a TiVo.


I also don't understand why you need VOD if you have a DVR. I never used it when I had the SA 8300, except for a few times when it missed something I wanted to record as it did so many times. Back then it was so slow loading it was ridiculous.


I have heard from may people who were former Comcast people that they couldn't get VOD for a while but I haven't heard any complaints lately so maybe they fixed that.


Anyway to get VOD you don't need a DVR. I tried it about 6 months ago befoe I got my TiVo HD and had the SA regular box. Just as bad, and there were no HD channels.


----------



## nickdawg

I figured there would be a Tivo plug coming after that comment. Stating that the SA8300 sucks is not an answer to the question.


I almost never use VOD either. Honestly I find it a pointless, useless feature and I hate how TWC shoves it down our throats and even claims to have more HD because of VOD. They should invest that time and effort into getting more watchable HD channels. And it was very slow at the beginning. Sometimes it would cause my Pioneer box to reboot. As bad as that SA box may have been, it is nowhere near as bad as a Pioneer box. A complete piece of #$%&. And the Pioneer box doesn't get HD channels either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14599701
> 
> 
> I figured there would be a Tivo plug coming after that comment. Stating that the SA8300 sucks is not an answer to the question.



You are right. It wasn't the answer to his question and I guess I shouldn't have done that.


Still doesn't change the fact that the SA 8300 sucks. Who was it who said the other day "Hey, nickdawg, hows that Navigator software treating you?"


Oh, I remember - It was Smarty - Pants.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14599817
> 
> 
> You are right. It wasn't the answer to his question and I guess I shouldn't have done that.
> 
> 
> Still doesn't change the fact that the SA 8300 sucks. Who was it who said the other day "Hey, nickdawg, hows that Navigator software treating you?"
> 
> 
> Oh, I remember - It was Smarty - Pants.



Notice that is NAVIGATOR, not the SA 8300HD. I've had SA 8300 and 8300HD since 2006. It was never a problem until this April. Before that I had the 8000 SDTV DVR, now THAT was a POS. A big, oversized POS.


Let's not feed the trolls.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14599817
> 
> 
> Who was it who said the other day "Hey, nickdawg, hows that Navigator software treating you?"
> 
> 
> Oh, I remember - It was Smarty - Pants.



Why you gotta be involving me in this fiasco?









So I've still got no box, so nothing to complain about my STB, since I don't have one. Sometimes simple is better







.

So are you guys enjoying the new USA HD channel??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14599921
> 
> 
> Let's not feed the trolls.




Smarty-Pants is not a troll! He's, well, you know what he is. Let's just say trouble maker.


Then again so am I. And you are too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14600127
> 
> 
> Why you gotta be involving me in this fiasco?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So are you guys enjoying the new USA HD channel??



First, you said it, don't deny it, so nobody brought you in this but you.


Second, on my guide USA HD is still listed on channel 450. The fact that the screen is grey, that's TW's fault.


And right back at you.


----------



## paule123

Tribe not in HD tonight from Kansas City? STOHD looks like 16:9 480p here on D* channel 662-1.


I remember this happening before on a game from KC.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14600448
> 
> 
> Tribe not in HD tonight from Kansas City? STOHD looks like 16:9 480p here on D* channel 662-1.
> 
> 
> I remember this happening before on a game from KC.



Sure looks like 480p to me here, on TWC.


I wouldn't be surprised if they got messed up at the KC end again.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14597677
> 
> 
> Ok..next question..TWC in Northeast Ohio and I have the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR 8300? Why doesn't pay per view or on demand work???



If you're in University Heights, you should be the former Adelphia region, no?


Just checked VOD on my SA8000HD DVR, and no problems in either SD or HD. I refuse to pay for a PPV just to see if it works.











Oh, Philcap is still open, last I drove by there (East Market Street in downtown Akron) at any rate. The Mr. Hero across the street has been razed, but Philcap is still standing. I can't speak to their antenna stock, though, as I didn't know they carried TV antennas...


----------



## Inundated

A reminder to everyone posting problems about TWC here, and asking for help:


PLEASE tell us which part of the TWC system you're on, if it's not obvious by your Location tag (i.e. above).


Despite efforts to unify TWC, there are still the remnants of three distinct systems - legacy TWC (Akron, Canton, Youngstown/Warren, etc.), former Adelphia (much of the Cleveland area, Bath/Copley/Northampton and Macedonia/Western Reserve) and former Comcast (Elyria, Mentor).


G3VIZIO was not difficult to figure out, since his location listing says "University Heights", but please, future posters...keep this in mind when you ask about TWC. If it doesn't say where you are in your profile, tell us!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14600127
> 
> 
> So are you guys enjoying the new USA HD channel??



It's working just fine, dude!! I called Steve Fry and told him how I liked USA HD and since I have an HDTV cable box he agreed to send me the signal, along with SCIFI HD and FX HD. Gotta keep it on the down low because it was just for me! Yeah, I have about 85 HD channels right now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14600827
> 
> 
> If you're in University Heights, you should be the former Adelphia region, no?
> 
> 
> Just checked VOD on my SA8000HD DVR, and no problems in either SD or HD. I refuse to pay for a PPV just to see if it works.



The OP of that question needs to call customer service. Since it is working OK for you, it must be a wiring or signal strength problem that needs a truck roll.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14600996
> 
> 
> The OP of that question needs to call customer service. Since it is working OK for you, it must be a wiring or signal strength problem that needs a truck roll.



Yeah, if he has bad looking/snowy analog channels, that's probably it. I just hate suggesting a truck roll if it's something that can be fixed at the TWC end, but I'm guessing you're right here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14601062
> 
> 
> Yeah, if he has bad looking/snowy analog channels, that's probably it. I just hate suggesting a truck roll if it's something that can be fixed at the TWC end, but I'm guessing you're right here.



I'll go along and agree with Inundated but dude, please keep in mind that the person you just said was right about something also just said this about USA HD:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14600987
> 
> 
> It's working just fine, dude!! I called Steve Fry and told him how I liked USA HD and since I have an HDTV cable box he agreed to send me the signal, along with SCIFI HD and FX HD. Gotta keep it on the down low because it was just for me! Yeah, I have about 85 HD channels right now.



nickdawg read the bottle and take the medication only as prescribed.










You gotta love tab browsing! Makes doing things like this so easy.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14602283
> 
> 
> ..........nickdawg read the bottle and take the medication only as prescribed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .................



Well whatever nickdawg is smoking/popping I WANT SOME!


The world is not enough! (unless it's in HD)


----------



## ErieMarty

does anyone know how many hours of HD programing you can keep on their.


I tried to find the answer in the paper work they gave me when I got it but couldn't find anything


thanks..


----------



## Smarty-pants

I would also like some of whatever Nick is "on". Seems like good stuff if it makes everything look HD.


----------



## Jigga Moog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14596918
> 
> 
> IIRC FSN Ohio HD is a "game only" type of a channel regardless of your provider due to a limitation on FSN's distribution system. This is currently being resolved and we may soon see FSN Ohio HD as a full time simulcast of FSN Ohio.



Do you know when this is happening? I hade WOW and I cancelled after the Cavs season and now I have OTA. I am thinking of getting the E* turboHD but they do not include the standered channels with the package so I will miss half the games. Right?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14602705
> 
> 
> does anyone know how many hours of HD programing you can keep on their.
> 
> 
> I tried to find the answer in the paper work they gave me when I got it but couldn't find anything
> 
> 
> thanks..



This goes back to what Inundated was talking about. Assuming you have the SA 8300 you can record 20 hours. You can purchase an eSATA for additional recording time, but I caution you when I did that it caused me to have partial recordings. YMMV


FWIW the TiVo S3 records 32 hours. And now there is this :


The ultimate HD cable DVR with extra large recording capacity.


THX® certified for premium audio and video quality


Save up to 150 hours of HD programming at a time.


Control cable TV with pause, rewind, fast-forward, and slow-motion.


Record two shows at once in HD.


Replace your cable box using one or more CableCard™ decoders available from your cable company.


Works with digital and analog cable; digital and analog antenna.


Satellite NOT supported.Digital Transition ready.Product details


Product features:


Automatically record every episode of your favorite shows.


Search for shows and schedule recordings from tivo.com.


Download thousands of new release movies.


Search for HD shows by keyword, actor, title, or sports team.


Transfer recorded shows to your computer or portable media player with TiVo Desktop software. (I use pyTiVo)


Play music from your computer or the Internet.


Display only the programs and channels that you pre-approve for your kids with TiVo KidZone.


Phone line: Connects to an existing home phone line, unless you connect an Ethernet cable to (G) or the TiVo wireless adapter to (H).


Digital audio: Connects to your home theater system for digital sound using an optical digital audio cable. (Sold separately)


S-Video out: Connects to a TV for a high-quality standard definition picture. It does not support high definition. Requires connecting a separate cable for audio.


Component video out: Connects to a TV for a high definition picture. Requires connecting a separate cable for audio.


Composite video and stereo out: Connects to a TV for a standard definition picture. Use only the white and red cables if all you need is audio for a different video source, like S-Video or Component video.


HDMI out: Connects to a TV, A/V receiver, or home theater system for a pure digital connection that provides HD video and digital audio all in one cable.


Ethernet: Connects to an Ethernet cable to allow your DVR to access your home network and your broadband Internet connection.


2 USB ports: Connects to the TiVo wireless adapter if you want to wirelessly connect to your home network and broadband internet connection.


E-SATA: Connects to the My DVR Expander to increase recording capacity.


Cable In: Connects to the coaxial cable in your wall that provides your cable TV programming.Antenna in:


Connects to the coaxial cable from a TV antenna in order to receive analog and digital broadcasts (including HD programming) over the air.


I know, geeze Hookbill.....And no I don't have stock in the company. I just love TiVo.







I like to keep people fully informed.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14603617
> 
> 
> Do you know when this is happening? I hade WOW and I cancelled after the Cavs season and now I have OTA. I am thinking of getting the E* turboHD but they do not include the standered channels with the package so I will miss half the games. Right?



I would have to go looking through the HDTV Programming area to where I saw it, but I believe the local FSNs will be 24/7 HD (mostly upconvert, I assume, aside from more game programming being added) by the end of the year.


It's a control room/behind the scenes issue, I believe. Right now, FSN Ohio and the other FSN HDs are not switched 24/7 in HD/digital, like STO is as of this year.


----------



## nickdawg

First off, I thought you'd love that one Smarty-Pants. Not so fun when someone else plays the role of smart-# is it? And I knew hook would love it because I played the "ultimate Steve Fry card". No, I have the same garbage channels everyone else has. Wishful thinking...


Second, FSN is not currently broadcasting in HD. When I tuned in to channel 309 today for the Zips game, I got the "Press Select For Enhanced" message that takes you to the HD bonus channel, which consists of a blank screen. Well at least they removed that channel from the guide so there isn't a 'dead' channel to have to flip through.


And third, I would never subscribe to an "HD Only" package. One big reason: STRETCHOVISION. Networks like TNT and TBS as well as FOOD, History and A&E stretch all 4:3 content to make it fill the 16:9 screen. I'm not watching that $#*&. Whenever a stretched show comes on, I'm back to the SD channel immediately. The thought of not having that option scares me. Heh, maybe I'd watch less TV, since most of what's on TWC's fantastic HD channels is stretched bulls...!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14605585
> 
> 
> Second, FSN is not currently broadcasting in HD. When I tuned in to channel 309 today for the Zips game, I got the "Press Select For Enhanced" message that takes you to the HD bonus channel, which consists of a blank screen. Well at least they removed that channel from the guide so there isn't a 'dead' channel to have to flip through.



Over here, they've also removed the errant FSNHD from the guide (TWC/former Adelphia-Cleveland, I believe it was 436, and it was showing the same "HD Bonus" screen instead of programming, anyway).


I presume they'll return it in time for the first Cavaliers HD game this coming basketball season, and whenever FSN Ohio HD launches 24/7.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14605660
> 
> 
> Over here, they've also removed the errant FSNHD from the guide (TWC/former Adelphia-Cleveland, I believe it was 436, and it was showing the same "HD Bonus" screen instead of programming, anyway).
> 
> 
> I presume they'll return it in time for the first Cavaliers HD game this coming basketball season, and whenever FSN Ohio HD launches 24/7.



That's the one, 436. For awhile that channel used to play some theatrical music and the blue screen just said "HD Sports". Looked like a generic power point slide.l And I always got a laugh out of how it was listed in the guide. HD Promo, which looked like "HD Porno" when I first saw it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14605748
> 
> 
> And I always got a laugh out of how it was listed in the guide. HD Promo, which looked like "HD Porno" when I first saw it.



Sounds like more wishfull thinking.










I didn't get the comment about Smarty-Pants. He can take it as well as dish it out.


And you're just as big of a smart @@@ as he is. I, on the other hand keep both of you in line.










Thank God Inundated and a few others around here take this thread seriously. I've noticed a great deal of the regulars who use to post don't come around as much. Probably because of the three of us going at it all the time.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14598512
> 
> 
> Are you getting premium channels that you're not paying for (i.e. HBO, Starz, etc)? If so then your box isn't fully "authorized" or something like that so you get a bunch of cool channels, but PPV and VOD is broken.



I just re-booted my box as suggested. I now get all the premium channels and really don't care about PPV or On Demand...I'm not complaining..if this is broken, i don't want it fixed...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14606780
> 
> 
> I just re-booted my box as suggested. I now get all the premium channels and really don't care about PPV or On Demand...I'm not complaining..if this is broken, i don't want it fixed...



It'll be gone soon enough. Just get as much recorded from those channels while you can.










Had the same happen when we first got the 8300HDC here as a first time HD owner and got quite a few HD movies recorded from the big 3 premium movie providers.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14606196
> 
> 
> I didn't get the comment about Smarty-Pants. He can take it as well as dish it out.
> 
> 
> And you're just as big of a smart @@@ as he is. I, on the other hand keep both of you in line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God Inundated and a few others around here take this thread seriously. I've noticed a great deal of the regulars who use to post don't come around as much. Probably because of the three of us going at it all the time.



Hey now. I'm NOT Smarty-Pants. Mr. Pants has derailed this thread several times. I, on the other hand take this tread seriously and provide good advice. Did you not read what I wrote yesterday about the broken cable box?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14606780
> 
> 
> I just re-booted my box as suggested. I now get all the premium channels and really don't care about PPV or On Demand...I'm not complaining..if this is broken, i don't want it fixed...



Is it a box that you just got from TWC? I've had this happen when I get a new box. All the HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc channels are on. I once had everything for almost a year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14607283
> 
> 
> Is it a box that you just got from TWC? I've had this happen when I get a new box. All the HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc channels are on. I once had everything for almost a year.



I did too. During the first year. It was part of the promotional package.










Don't they still give that to everyone for one year? Then in hopes that you will forget, which I didn't, they send you this humongous bill that has been know to cause heart attacks and strokes in customers.


And you want to know what else those crooks did to me? Because I realized that the time was up (I had 3 weeks left) I called to cancel the additional channels. Since I "cancelled my promo early", I was charged for 1 week for all additional channels.










To be fair that was the old crooks, Adelphia. Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss - Pete Townsend (The Who)


Edit: I just hit post 3400!


Also since Navigator has turned out to be such a big hit







, I've gone back to my old signature.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14608469
> 
> 
> ............Edit: I just hit post 3400!
> 
> 
> Also since Navigator has turned out to be such a big hit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I've gone back to my old signature.



*bows* to the posting prowess of hookbill. You are TWICE the man I am!


I remember the old analog cable days when you could order a PPV, after the PPV program you would simply unplug the coax cable for a few hours, then plug it back in. By doing so you would avoid the "hit" sent by the cable co to turn off PPV at your STB resulting in free PPV (that ch only) for quite a while.


Eventually they would send a random "hit" and it would stop working, but this could be weeks or months later. With the digital systems now I presume it's more sophisticated and this probably wouldn't work.


I'm guessing something similar is what G3VIZIO is experiencing with his free ch's. Eventually they'll go away as nickdawg suggested.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14606882
> 
> 
> It'll be gone soon enough. Just get as much recorded from those channels while you can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had the same happen when we first got the 8300HDC here as a first time HD owner and got quite a few HD movies recorded from the big 3 premium movie providers.



I've had the box for about 4 months now.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14608611
> 
> 
> I've had the box for about 4 months now.



Let me re-phrase that..I've had the box for 4 months..only after I rebooted it did I start getting premium channels..I'm sure we-ve had at least one power interuption since then so it's not the first time it's been re-booted.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14608619
> 
> 
> Let me re-phrase that..I've had the box for 4 months..only after I rebooted it did I start getting premium channels..I'm sure we-ve had at least one power interuption since then so it's not the first time it's been re-booted.



So are you suggesting that if you reboot again after they turn it off you may get it again? I'd try it.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14600448
> 
> 
> Tribe not in HD tonight from Kansas City? STOHD looks like 16:9 480p here on D* channel 662-1.
> 
> 
> I remember this happening before on a game from KC.



Friday nights game was in widescreen SD but Saturdays game was HD. I wonder what the Friday problem was.


----------



## G3VIZIO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14608629
> 
> 
> So are you suggesting that if you reboot again after they turn it off you may get it again? I'd try it.



I haven't had the premium channels until this last re-boot.


----------



## ErieMarty

channel #s ????


even thought it says STO I get TNT and the other way around when I click in the TNT channel #


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14609326
> 
> 
> channel #s ????
> 
> 
> even thought it says STO I get TNT and the other way around when I click in the TNT channel #



Don't know what you're looking at by STO HD is still on 435 and TNT HD is on 441, right where they have always been. Well, at least since the realignment.










Are you talking about SD? Or is this another one of those Navigator issues?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/14609325
> 
> 
> I haven't had the premium channels until this last re-boot.



I understood what you said. What I was saying is if they take it away from you will you reboot again to see if you can get it again?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14609409
> 
> 
> Don't know what you're looking at by STO HD is still on 435 and TNT HD is on 441, right where they have always been. Well, at least since the realignment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about SD? Or is this another one of those Navigator issues?



Didn't Vchat20 have this exact same problem earlier in the thread? Yep, he did:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> TNTHD(ch441) views STOHD and STOHD(ch435) views TNTHD. Dunno if it's yet another mystro bug or a headend mixup. In the legacy TW area over here in Warren.



It must be a bug A) with Navigator and/or B) over in the eastern part of the TWC system.


As before, I have STOHD and TNTHD on their proper channels. Former Adelphia area, TWC/Cleveland, SARA on my SA8000HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14609485
> 
> 
> Didn't Vchat20 have this exact same problem earlier in the thread? Yep, he did:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It must be a bug A) with Navigator and/or B) over in the eastern part of the TWC system.
> 
> 
> As before, I have STOHD and TNTHD on their proper channels. Former Adelphia area, TWC/Cleveland, SARA on my SA8000HD.



If it's the eastern part that's where I am. Well, Southeast. But I'm out of the Concord headend.


If they can't punch the channel in manually then it's as you say. That would mean they have Navigator. If they can punch in the channel though it would mean that it's a guide error.


----------



## GLuis

Anyone else seeing issues with the OTA Chan 19 feed? Actually, both OTA and Dish HD are pixelizing ... OTA moreso.


Of course, I should check the OTA outdoor ant. Could be a flock of parrots roosting on it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/14609747
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing issues with the OTA Chan 19 feed? Actually, both OTA and Dish HD are pixelizing ... OTA moreso.
> 
> 
> Of course, I should check the OTA outdoor ant. Could be a flock of parrots roosting on it.



Hey, don't blame me. Mine are all in their cages!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/14609747
> 
> 
> Anyone else seeing issues with the OTA Chan 19 feed? Actually, both OTA and Dish HD are pixelizing ... OTA moreso.
> 
> 
> Of course, I should check the OTA outdoor ant. Could be a flock of parrots roosting on it.



I am seeing breakups on Chan 19 HD via DirecTV. NFL Today pregame and the Texans/Steelers game. During the pregame it was so bad I switched to the SD channel 19 on DirecTV. Not able to check OTA to verify.


----------



## Argee

Its on DirecTV and OTA on channel 19. I have been having this problem with WOIO on some evening network shows as well over the past couple of weeks.

The problem is most definte on channel 19's end and I hope they do something about it but they have always seem to be a shoestring operation IMO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/14609997
> 
> 
> Its on DirecTV and OTA on channel 19. I have been having this problem with WOIO on some evening network shows as well over the past couple of weeks.
> 
> The problem is most definte on channel 19's end and I hope they do something about it but they have always seem to be a shoestring operation IMO.



I watched a recording of Swingtown last night and and episode of Big Brother. Both had problems with pixelation and kind of a weird speed up thing from time to time.


I just rebooted my TiVo because of that, but I was pretty sure it was a broadcast problem as I replayed the same areas and the same thing happened. You guys are confirming that. Thanks.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14609897
> 
> 
> I am seeing breakups on Chan 19 HD via DirecTV. NFL Today pregame and the Texans/Steelers game. During the pregame it was so bad I switched to the SD channel 19 on DirecTV. Not able to check OTA to verify.



I'm getting the occasional breakups on WOIO-DT via TWC cable 404 during the game this afternoon.


So, I'm guessing that the problem lies with "Cleveland's CBS 19", not with the delivery method.


----------



## paule123

With 1:30 to go in the half Texans/Steelers, the WOIO breakups are REALLY bad. The screen went all green and black at one point.


They better not screw up the Browns game!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14610405
> 
> 
> With 1:30 to go in the half Texans/Steelers, the WOIO breakups are REALLY bad. The screen went all green and black at one point.
> 
> 
> They better not screw up the Browns game!



They won't be airing the Browns game. It's on FOX 8, since the Cowboys (NFC) are the away team.


----------



## Inundated

It's a tad late, but I just found out...HBO/Cinemax is doing a free preview this weekend.


I'm getting all the HBO/Cinemax channels on TWC/Cleveland, including both HD channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14608469
> 
> 
> I did too. During the first year. It was part of the promotional package.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't they still give that to everyone for one year? Then in hopes that you will forget, which I didn't, they send you this humongous bill that has been know to cause heart attacks and strokes in customers.
> 
> 
> And you want to know what else those crooks did to me? Because I realized that the time was up (I had 3 weeks left) I called to cancel the additional channels. Since I "cancelled my promo early", I was charged for 1 week for all additional channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair that was the old crooks, Adelphia. *Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss* - Pete Townsend (The Who)
> 
> 
> Edit: I just hit post 3400!
> 
> 
> Also since Navigator has turned out to be such a big hit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I've gone back to my old signature.



I guess we can say Hookbill "Won't Get Fooled Again" by the cable company.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14609485
> 
> 
> Didn't Vchat20 have this exact same problem earlier in the thread? Yep, he did:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It must be a bug A) with Navigator and/or B) over in the eastern part of the TWC system.
> 
> 
> As before, I have STOHD and TNTHD on their proper channels. Former Adelphia area, TWC/Cleveland, SARA on my SA8000HD.



It must have been a navigator bug somewhere along the line cause a reboot fixed that issue a couple days ago. *shrug* Still no clue how a mess like that would even take place. Just can't see it technically. I don't ever recall the two channels being on the same QAM or anything.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14610613
> 
> 
> It's a tad late, but I just found out...HBO/Cinemax is doing a free preview this weekend.
> 
> 
> I'm getting all the HBO/Cinemax channels on TWC/Cleveland, including both HD channels.



Yeah, I noticed it too. RIGHT NOW! I already get HBO anyway(Real Time with Bill Maher) so it wasn't unusual that HBO was on. I've never subscribed to Cinemax so I don't even look at those channels. TWC really hit a new low. They didn't even tell us they were doing a free preview.


Now, about that free channels thing. It was not something I subscribed to. It was completely a mistake. Whenever you get a new box from TWC everything comes set to the default settings and all the channels are on. Until the box is "told" what you subscribe to, all the channels are on. Many years back(around 2002) when I got a new digital box I actually had all the channels for free. And it lasted almost a year. Now, when I dumped that POS OCAP box last year for a regular 8300HD I again had all the channels on. This only lasted a few weeks, since everything was shut off after TWC did some channel changes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14611341
> 
> 
> Yeah, I noticed it too. RIGHT NOW! I already get HBO anyway(Real Time with Bill Maher) so it wasn't unusual that HBO was on. I've never subscribed to Cinemax so I don't even look at those channels. TWC really hit a new low. They didn't even tell us they were doing a free preview.
> 
> 
> (



The free preview weekends never seem to get a promo and I don't understand why. Usually Premium channels will put their top notch stuff up there to entice you to sign but TW doesn't promo it, neither did Adelphia.


----------



## nickdawg

They used to advertise more. I remember about four years ago when the Kirstie Alley show "Fat Actress" premiered on Showtime. TWC had a full page ad in the paper about it and the preview week and they even opened up channel 79 on analog for Showtime. It was crazy, Showtime on analog!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14611300
> 
> 
> It must have been a navigator bug somewhere along the line cause a reboot fixed that issue a couple days ago. *shrug* Still no clue how a mess like that would even take place. Just can't see it technically. I don't ever recall the two channels being on the same QAM or anything.



I think Navigator IS a bug, but I won't go too far with that, as two people in here will run with it










I believe the HBO/Cinemax free preview is pretty much on every provider...it's not something TWC is doing on its own.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14611511
> 
> 
> I think Navigator IS a bug, but I won't go too far with that, as two people in here will run with it



Does any one particular person come to mind?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14611511
> 
> 
> I believe the HBO/Cinemax free preview is pretty much on every provider...it's not something TWC is doing on its own.



True, and I'm not a business man but it would seem to me that if TW was smart they would pop in on stations like TNT and others where they have there little local commercials and say "Join us this weekend for a free preview."


If you want to sell something of this nature it would seem like a golden opportunity. Much better then calling customer service and having a CSR say, "Hey, I notice you don't have Cinemax. Would you like to add that?"


----------



## nickdawg

I'm really feeling the pain of losing USA HD tonight. I turned on the House marathon on USA tonight. It was horrible. I miss USA HD. The SD digital PQ is not that hot. Plus it looks awful windowboxed(black bars on the top and sides).


I really feel bad for Hookbill and the former Adelphia areas that are still using an analog version of USA. I can't even imagine going from USA HD to USA analog.


----------



## paule123

Just curious, why does it seem that WKYC has their own 16:9 SD crew covering the Browns game, and shows those highlights on the news instead of using Fox's HD coverage of the game today? Is this the same crew that does the in house video at the stadium?


BTW - the big screen at Browns Stadium is far from HD quality - would be nice to see that upgraded someday. Maybe after they beat the Steelers next week


----------



## Vchat20

I would assume so paule123. I know that at least in the case for Indians home games and STO, it's all technically inhouse at WKYC so I would think the Browns stadium would be in a similar situation. As such, it's much cheaper to use their own clips than license them from Fox.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14613619
> 
> 
> I'm really feeling the pain of losing USA HD tonight. I turned on the House marathon on USA tonight. It was horrible. I miss USA HD. The SD digital PQ is not that hot. Plus it looks awful windowboxed(black bars on the top and sides).
> 
> 
> I really feel bad for Hookbill and the former Adelphia areas that are still using an analog version of USA. I can't even imagine going from USA HD to USA analog.



While I appreciate your sentiments nickdawg, there are two things to consider here.


First digital does not necessarily mean a better pictue then digital. Some of the high tech guys can explain that like Inundated. Our locals are analog upgraded to digital but I never watch the digital versions unless it's a show I'm recording that doesn't have Dolby 5.1 to save disk space.


Second from the moment I got my S3 I immediately noticed improved pq on analog channels. Now HD is a whole different ball game so when you say USA HD heck yes there is a difference in pq. But to be honest with you the shows I watch on USA look pretty good. HD quality? No way but decent, absolutely.


And maybe it's just me but I think there is a bit of loss of pq on the mirror channels.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14610613
> 
> 
> It's a tad late, but I just found out...HBO/Cinemax is doing a free preview this weekend.
> 
> 
> I'm getting all the HBO/Cinemax channels on TWC/Cleveland, including both HD channels.



Cox Cleveland also had the HBO preview. 12 HBO channels and almost nothing good to watch. Lots of Christmas movies but it's just September. If the had done a good scheduling job we might have subscribed.


----------



## Inundated

Two things:


1) Local TV stations frequently send their own crews to cover a major sporting event, so they have their own video. This is nothing new, though the 16:9 SD is fairly new.


The NFL has put what could be called draconian measures into place preventing stations from using more than a certain amount of even their own video. And they've also limited the number of local TV news crews shooting at the games, I believe...though I think they eased up on that this year.


2) Digital SD is not always "better" than analog on cable. You could well have a strong, clean analog signal that looks better - if the cable system compresses its SD/digital feed to within an inch of its life. You lose the snow, but gain compression artifacts.


I noticed an improvement in the analog channels recently, after TWC had that problem where many of 'em were breaking up. I wonder if a faulty piece of equipment being replaced resulted in that. Even the analog channels that weren't affected that weekend are better.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/14615636
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland also had the HBO preview. 12 HBO channels and almost nothing good to watch. Lots of Christmas movies but it's just September. If the had done a good scheduling job we might have subscribed.



I think HBO may have done this to promote their new season of originals. I think Entourage premiered along with their new show "True Blood".


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/14596346
> 
> 
> If that's Fox Sports Net HD, I don't think that they have had any programing since the basketball season ended.



Well, FSN Ohio HD is back with college football games. I cought part of one Saturday night. FSNO HD just popped onto my EPG a few days ago (E* 642).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14618490
> 
> *WINNER:*
> 
> 
> I know I like to frequently bash WEWS, but today I give them a "good job". Oprah began HD syndication today and WEWS is keeping up with the times and showing it in HD. Unfortunately the crap generator is running at full speed, even on the HD channel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , but I'll over look that because of the great technical accomplishment of showing syndicated HD.
> *
> 
> LOSER:*
> 
> 
> WKYC has once again proven to be complete garbage. Ellen was also set tp begin HD syndication today. Is it HD on WKYC? NO!! Get with the times WKYC!!! The only thing you're good for is preempting Deal or No Deal for crap and your newscast as a sleep aid when I run out of booze!! You earn a big, giant,
> 
> *FAIL!!*




nickdawg watches *Oprah*.


You actually came in here and said this. Unbelieveable.










BTW the name of the thread is Cleveland, Local HD. If you like maybe we can have it changed to the nickdawg b**ch and moan thread.


And I happen to like channel 3 news. And channel 5. For comedy there is nothing like channel 19. And if you constantly want to hear about American Idol, there is FOX 8, who's slogan should be "All American Idol Promos, All The Time."


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14619549
> 
> 
> nickdawg watches *Oprah*.
> 
> 
> You actually came in here and said this. Unbelieveable.



She had the Olympic athletes on. Plus it was the first time it was HD. I'm not a regular viewer. When they talk about chick stuff, the channel gets changed faster than you can say "parrot".


Maybe you don't see the significance of this. You see Oprah is a huge icon in America. Many, many people watch her show. When someone as huge as Oprah goes HD, it's a huge step forward. Since said show is in demand, the HD version will be in demand as well. This will lead to more stations upgrading to HD recording/broadcast equipment, which means more HD shows. WEWS upgraded a few years back when Wheel and Jeopardy went HD. This makes them open to show more HD programming when it becomes available. I'd like to see the CSI:Miami and CSI:NY repeats on Saturday and Sunday in HD. Maybe even movies.


Speaking of 19 comedy, what possessed 19 to dump CBS Tennis to WOIO-DT 2 and show news and now Millionaire in SD on the main HD channel?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14619549
> 
> 
> BTW the name of the thread is Cleveland, Local HD. If you like maybe we can have it changed to the nickdawg b**ch and moan thread.



Now, now, hookbill, in this case he's actually "moaning" about local HD broadcasts of syndicated shows, or lack thereof. Give the guy a break.


And I'm not a regular or even semi-regular "Oprah" or "Ellen" viewer, but I knew they were going HD starting today...and was going to check solely because I wanted to see if the locals picked up the HD feeds.


Since we know WEWS can record satellite HD ("Wheel", "Jeopardy"), I'm not surprised they had "Oprah" in HD, and I think it's probably even on the same satellite channel as the game shows (King World).


And I'm not surprised WKYC didn't have "Ellen" in HD, since it'd be their first recorded HD show if they did.


----------



## kramerboy

Ellen was not in HD.


However, WKYC DID show Dr Phil in HD (right after Ellen) as well as Entertainment Tonight in HD at 7:30.


So it appears that they (WKYC) do have the ability to show recorded shows in HD. Perhaps Monday's show was just a fluke that it wasn't shown in HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kramerboy* /forum/post/14623860
> 
> 
> Ellen was not in HD.
> 
> 
> However, WKYC DID show Dr Phil in HD (right after Ellen) as well as Entertainment Tonight in HD at 7:30.
> 
> 
> So it appears that they (WKYC) do have the ability to show recorded shows in HD. Perhaps Monday's show was just a fluke that it wasn't shown in HD.



Really? I wasn't home until later after Dr. Phil and ET wasn't on my radar(found out about that one and the Insider later). That's good news. I've read that they re-sent Ellen to affiliates several times yesterday because technical problems.


We'll have to see today. Nickdawg may be doing some post deleting.


----------



## nickdawg

No HD Ellen again!! I will be sticking around to check out Dr. Phil and ET today.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14626680
> 
> 
> No HD Ellen again!! I will be sticking around to check out Dr. Phil and ET today.



So I checked just to make sure. It is supposed to be in HD.

http://www.wkyc.com/ 


Send them an email. Or get their phone number and call them.


----------



## nickdawg

Dr. Phil is on in HD right now.


Post editing time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14627225
> 
> 
> Dr. Phil is on in HD right now.
> 
> 
> Post editing time.



Well, perhaps they don't like people who are gay?


Ellen: Gay


Dr. Phil: Not gay


What a bunch of bigots!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14619780
> 
> 
> 
> Since we know WEWS can record satellite HD ("Wheel", "Jeopardy"), I'm not surprised they had "Oprah" in HD, and I think it's probably even on the same satellite channel as the game shows (King World).



I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.


Now this is speculation on my part, however I have evidence that this may be the case. The evidence is that whenever any HD programming is delayed on WEWS, the delayed programs are in SD 4X3. That is, the last time I've seen a delayed program on WEWS (it's been awhile). So perhaps they can record in HD today (in fact they do show the repeat of the 11 PM news in HD), it's just the syndicated and ABC programs in delay that had been SD at least the last time I watched.


----------



## Vchat20

I'm actually quite surprised cause isn't WKYC technically an NBC owned affiliate? You'd think it would be in their best interest under the watchful eye of the peacock to get all this correct right off the bat.


I can understand reverting to SD for weather alerts and such due to the equipment to do so in HD still being expensive and hard to come by, but there's no excuse for this. Especially if they are perfectly capable of airing the likes of Oprah and Dr. Phil in HD (which are both pre-recorded syndications AFAICR)


----------



## Trip in VA

WKYC is owned by Gannett, not by NBC.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14628319
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.
> 
> 
> Now this is speculation on my part, however I have evidence that this may be the case. The evidence is that whenever any HD programming is delayed on WEWS, the delayed programs are in SD 4X3. That is, the last time I've seen a delayed program on WEWS (it's been awhile). So perhaps they can record in HD today (in fact they do show the repeat of the 11 PM news in HD), it's just the syndicated and ABC programs in delay that had been SD at least the last time I watched.



DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.


This makes perfect sense. According To WNBC Ellen is shown at 3:00. That is the national feed for the eastern part of the country. However here in Cleveland it isn't shown until 4:00 pm. That is why it's in SD.


Just like when the Browns play and they are not the nationally televised game, we get stuck with SD. Same case here with Ellen.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14628319
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.
> 
> 
> Now this is speculation on my part, however I have evidence that this may be the case. The evidence is that whenever any HD programming is delayed on WEWS, the delayed programs are in SD 4X3. That is, the last time I've seen a delayed program on WEWS (it's been awhile). So perhaps they can record in HD today (in fact they do show the repeat of the 11 PM news in HD), it's just the syndicated and ABC programs in delay that had been SD at least the last time I watched.



WEWS usually shows network programming that was bounced from primetime in SD. That seems to be normal practice. But I have seen a Jeopardy episode at 1AM in HD a few months back. Then again other times I've seen Whee and jeopardy in SD when it is moved to late night.


I always think it's fun when network programming is shown SD on the HD channel at night. Gives a good idea of how good SD digital cable *COULD* look if TWC used real digital versions of local channels.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14629318
> 
> 
> DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner.
> 
> 
> This makes perfect sense. According To WNBC Ellen is shown at 3:00. That is the national feed for the eastern part of the country. However here in Cleveland it isn't shown until 4:00 pm. That is why it's in SD.
> 
> 
> Just like when the Browns play and they are not the nationally televised game, we get stuck with SD. Same case here with Ellen.



Then why don't they move Ellen? WKYC runs this awful show called "The Doctors" at 3pm. A real piece of &$%@. IF they are sending Ellen down in HD at 3PM, SHOW IT!!! But if it is live, then why would Dr. Phil be HD at 5PM? WCBS shows Dr. Phil at 3PM also, meaning it must be recorded here.


There's another issue in play here as well. Dr. Phil, Entertainment Tonight, Oprah, Wheel and Jeopardy are all CBS Paramount shows. Ellen is a Warner Brothers show.


----------



## Vchat20

If you guys want definite answers, why not just prod at a station engineer? God knows we have a handful floating around here. I know WFMJ's engineer lurks around and posts every so often.


Who knows? Maybe these shows are coming in as mpeg4 for HD and they don't have the available transcoders? A stretch, but as good a possibility as any posted already. *shrug*


----------



## Inundated

I've seen other market engineers talking about it, and I got the impression that those shows are indeed recorded, somehow, by the appropriate HD recording equipment at the local station...either off the satellite, or via fiber/IP/whatever.


Now, if they're feeding "Ellen" at the time the station happens to be airing it, I presume they could go live. But since syndicated shows are bounced around the schedule and aired across the country at different times, at the behest of the local affiliate, the satellite uplink/transponders aren't feeding "Ellen", "Oprah", "Dr. Phil", etc. every hour all day long.


I get the impression that they're doing multiple feeds, but not each hour, all day.


WEWS can indeed record HD. I've also seen post-midnight Jeopardy repeats, at a time clearly controlled by the station (i.e. not on the hour/half hour, due to sports or other overrun). I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure the late night repeat of "NewsChannel 5 at 11" is in HD, which would answer the question of recording capability in HD entirely.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14630708
> 
> 
> WEWS can indeed record HD. I've also seen post-midnight Jeopardy repeats, at a time clearly controlled by the station (i.e. not on the hour/half hour, due to sports or other overrun). I haven't checked lately, but I'm pretty sure the late night repeat of "NewsChannel 5 at 11" is in HD, which would answer the question of recording capability in HD entirely.



I think WKYC can also record HD. If you see their local news promos they are HD. During commercials I've seen the picture 'expand" to full screen and their news promos or talent commercials appear to be true HD. Plus the Mark Nolan special about Lake Erie that was on last year was produced in HD as well. All that stuff has to be recorded somewhere.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14628319
> 
> 
> I don't think they actually "record" Wheel & Jeopardy. I'm willing to bet these shows are fed via satellite. The "recording" is at the satellite uplink center and not at WEWS. When we see these syndicated shows in HD we are watching a live satellite feed.



Syndicated programs are distributed via satellite usually a week in advance. They must be stored for rebroadcast at the date they're allowed to air the show and time the local affiliate has decided to air the show.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14631119
> 
> 
> Syndicated programs are distributed via satellite usually a week in advance. They must be stored for rebroadcast at the date they're allowed to air the show and time the local affiliate has decided to air the show.



No, that's not unnecessarily true. Many of these shows are on current topics so they couldn't send them a week in advance.


Now I have never seen "Ellen" other when she accidentally came on if I had something else on the television so what you say may be true.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14629470
> 
> 
> Then why don't they move Ellen? WKYC runs this awful show called "The Doctors" at 3pm. A real piece of &$%@. IF they are sending Ellen down in HD at 3PM, SHOW IT!!! But if it is live, then why would Dr. Phil be HD at 5PM? WCBS shows Dr. Phil at 3PM also, meaning it must be recorded here.
> 
> 
> There's another issue in play here as well. Dr. Phil, Entertainment Tonight, Oprah, Wheel and Jeopardy are all CBS Paramount shows. Ellen is a Warner Brothers show.




When I lived in Northern Kentucky for some odd reason they would have Jeopardy before Wheel, coming from Cincinnati. Who knows?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14631493
> 
> 
> When I lived in Northern Kentucky for some odd reason they would have Jeopardy before Wheel, coming from Cincinnati. Who knows?



One time I saw the same thing at a bar on the east side (Jeopardy before Wheel). It turned out that the bar had a "BUD" (not the beer but a LARGE satellite dish). What they had on was one of the "Denver 5" stations that used to be available coast to coast to anyone with a BUD. The local stations don't like mere mortals watching some other city's stations if that station has the same network and/or syndicated programs.


Back to my previous comment about the live satellite feed of syndicated programming. I used to work in radio. There was a very popular syndicated program that is heard just about everywhere but at different times from station to station. That program was fed on a single satellite feed every half hour all day long. The local station never had to tape it since it came on like hot running water over the sat. Wheel & Jeopardy could be distributed in a similar fashon (although the difference in cost betwen an all-day long audio satellite feed vs an all-day long HD TV feed may make the practice on TV cost prohibitive).


----------



## bgiese

WEWS looked like they screwed up the Bonnie Hunt talk show on Wednesday. It looked like they tried to run the HD feed of the show but instead it was the 16x9 version squished into a 4x3 pillar box. Everything was distorted.

Does anybody have an e-mail address for WEWS so I can report this blunder.

I can't believe they ran the show for an entire hour without correcting the Aspect Ratio. I saw the show on Monday and it was the 4x3 SD version on the HD channel.


I'm hoping they get their issue straightened out. I enjoy Bonnie Hunt but can't stand inane aspect ratio problems. Seriously,doesn't the MCO over their monitor what they are sending over the air?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/14637377
> 
> 
> WEWS looked like they screwed up the Bonnie Hunt talk show on Wednesday. It looked like they tried to run the HD feed of the show but instead it was the 16x9 version squished into a 4x3 pillar box. Everything was distorted.
> 
> Does anybody have an e-mail address for WEWS so I can report this blunder.
> 
> I can't believe they ran the show for an entire hour without correcting the Aspect Ratio. I saw the show on Monday and it was the 4x3 SD version on the HD channel.
> 
> 
> I'm hoping they get their issue straightened out. I enjoy Bonnie Hunt but can't stand inane aspect ratio problems. Seriously,doesn't the MCO over their monitor what they are sending over the air?



try [email protected]


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14630752
> 
> 
> I think WKYC can also record HD. If you see their local news promos they are HD. During commercials I've seen the picture 'expand" to full screen and their news promos or talent commercials appear to be true HD. Plus the Mark Nolan special about Lake Erie that was on last year was produced in HD as well. All that stuff has to be recorded somewhere.



Yeah, I've seen all of the above - I'm not sure that automatically translates to being able to record HD satellite-fed (or other) syndicated content for air later. I know they can't edit news video in true HD.


If they are indeed running Dr. Phil in HD, this one's solved, anyway.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14636068
> 
> 
> Wheel & Jeopardy could be distributed in a similar fashon (although the difference in cost betwen an all-day long audio satellite feed vs an all-day long HD TV feed may make the practice on TV cost prohibitive).



Ding! We have a winner here.


Big radio syndicators like Clear Channel/Premiere feed around a dozen or so audio channels all the time, many of them filled day and night.

http://engineering.premiereradio.com...I_Schedule.pdf 


Many of 'em are various 24/7 radio networks like FOX Sports Radio and the like.


But the difference between that and HDTV satellite feeds? Night and day.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/14637377
> 
> 
> WEWS looked like they screwed up the Bonnie Hunt talk show on Wednesday. It looked like they tried to run the HD feed of the show but instead it was the 16x9 version squished into a 4x3 pillar box. Everything was distorted.



Is Ms. Hunt's new show supposed to be in HD?


----------



## KennedyJ

Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14631481
> 
> 
> No, that's not unnecessarily true. Many of these shows are on current topics so they couldn't send them a week in advance.
> 
> 
> Now I have never seen "Ellen" other when she accidentally came on if I had something else on the television so what you say may be true.



Sorry, I forgot about how current some of these shows are. When Wheel and Jeopardy went HD we learned about how those are distributed a week ahead of time on the Cincinnati thread. So while some of the other shows, depending on their timeliness, aren't distributed a week in advance, they're probably distributed at least a day in advance because I seriously doubt they're live streams.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14638981
> 
> 
> Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.



I'm in North Ridgeville and mine's been down since the the 9.4 update hit my box in late July. I'm ready to dump Time Warner and TiVo at the end of this month when my free two months of TiVo expires that TiVo game me because of this problem. I'd be suprised if the problem is fixed any time soon. I'm in contact with the lead Time Warner tech as well and the last time I talked to him was about 2 weeks ago. He assured me that he would call me the moment he heard anything new about this problem. I've spent many hours myself with TiVo and TimeWarner, when the problem happened with multiple truck rolls and multiple calls to TiVo and Time Warner tech support. I posted this on the TiVo forum and after about a week a TiVo tech got a hold of me asking me to go through the same diagnostics that I went through with TiVo support when the problem first happened. I told them I'm not going to be their guinea pig anymore unless they give me a years worth of free TiVo. My time is money and I had already spent about 5-10 hours on this problem. Mind you, this is already after multiple truck rolls by Time Warner back in May just to install a multi-stream cable card in my TiVoHD, so I've probably spent about 15-20 hours of my own time trying to get it working since I first got my TiVoHD back in May. It's been a very frustrating exerience. I told TiVo I feel sorry for them that they have to rely on companies like Time Warner to sell their product. I'm quite sure it's something on Time Warner's end so I didn't follow up with the TiVo Tech after he rejected my request for free service for a year.


The good news is that a new TiVoHD box is coming to DirecTV next year. The bad news is that it's not coming until the 2nd half of next year.


----------



## Argee

Channel 3 is showing Entertainment Tonight in HD at 7:30pm so why ELLEN is being left out is a mystery.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14638981
> 
> 
> Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.



Here's the deal. First it is not the update, that is what they are trying to blame it on. It's probably something with headend.


Now what's going on is there is a National Cable Hotline number which I won't give out because nobody but techs are suppose to call it. Working this number from like 9:00 am to 8:00 pm or something like that are 2 techs for the ENTIRE country. That's right, 2 techs that truly understand TiVo's.


So what do YOU do? You contact [email protected] with the same message you posted. You will get a call within 1 day and you will have techs that come out to fix your problem, and they will come out quickly in a schedule that is convenient for you.


Now the techs biggest problems are they simply don't know how to navigate through the cable card screens. They don't know where to look for the emm's and they also frequently don't follow the instructions to install one card, make sure it works, then install the second card. After that they have to call in both cable card numbers and have them paired.


Write down the numbers of the cable cards. They made a mistake reading one of mine back, it's easy to do.


Steve Fry is the President of TWC NEO and when I had my TiVo HD installed (I already had an S3) I wrote him and complained about the time it took for them to come out and the compentency of the techs.


Also did you have TiVo prior to 9.4? If that's the case pm me and I'll give you some other help.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14638981
> 
> 
> Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.



Hi Jason,


I have an S-3 with cable cards and 9.4. It works fine for me so far.


Ben Music


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14639123
> 
> 
> I'm in North Ridgeville and mine's been down since the the 9.4 update hit my box in late July. I'm ready to dump Time Warner and TiVo at the end of this month when my free two months of TiVo expires that TiVo game me because of this problem. I'd be suprised if the problem is fixed any time soon. I'm in contact with the lead Time Warner tech as well and the last time I talked to him was about 2 weeks ago. He assured me that he would call me the moment he heard anything new about this problem. I've spent many hours myself with TiVo and TimeWarner, when the problem happened with multiple truck rolls and multiple calls to TiVo and Time Warner tech support. I posted this on the TiVo forum and after about a week a TiVo tech got a hold of me asking me to go through the same diagnostics that I went through with TiVo support when the problem first happened. I told them I'm not going to be their guinea pig anymore unless they give me a years worth of free TiVo. My time is money and I had already spent about 5-10 hours on this problem. Mind you, this is already after multiple truck rolls by Time Warner back in May just to install a multi-stream cable card in my TiVoHD, so I've probably spent about 15-20 hours of my own time trying to get it working since I first got my TiVoHD back in May. It's been a very frustrating exerience. I told TiVo I feel sorry for them that they have to rely on companies like Time Warner to sell their product. I'm quite sure it's something on Time Warner's end so I didn't follow up with the TiVo Tech after he rejected my request for free service for a year.
> 
> 
> The good news is that a new TiVoHD box is coming to DirecTV next year. The bad news is that it's not coming until the 2nd half of next year.



Well this just sucks. We had the lead tech on the phone for North Ridgeville last night and he told me that since the 9.4 update came out he has 42 Cablecard/TiVo customers that are dead in the water. I just fired off a lengthy message to Mr. Fry. I even offerred to give them one of my TiVos for testing. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14639762
> 
> 
> Well this just sucks. We had the lead tech on the phone for North Ridgeville last night and he told me that since the 9.4 upate came out he has 42 Cablecard/TiVo customers that are dead in the water. I just fired off a lengthy message to Mr. Fry. I even offerred to give them one of my TiVos for testing. This leaves a real bad taste in my mouth...



TW is famous for blaming TiVo instead of themselves. And as I said they only have two techs at the CABLE CARD HOTLINE available nationally! That's the outrage.


Both of my S3 and TiVoHD came through fine. address as well.


If you want, pm me with your phone number and I will give my headend person a call for you. I'll need your name and


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14639638
> 
> 
> Hi Jason,
> 
> 
> I have an S-3 with cable cards and 9.4. It works fine for me so far.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Hi Ben,


Do you have two single stream cards in your S3? We tried that scenerio in my S3 and couldn't get all of the channels to display. I could get the Digital Basic and Local HD stations, but none of the expanded HD lineup (above 430). On my THD, we tried multistream cards and had even worse results.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14639792
> 
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> 
> Do you have two single stream cards in your S3? We tried that scenerio in my S3 and couldn't get all of the channels to display. I could get the Digital Basic and Local HD stations, but none of the expanded HD lineup (above 430). On my THD, we tried multistream cards and had even worse results.



Jason,


I have two single stream cards. I just rechecked the S-3 and all ch's including expanded HD and premiums (HBO etc) come in just fine.


Ben Music


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14639485
> 
> 
> Here's the deal. First it is not the update, that is what they are trying to blame it on. It's probably something with headend.
> 
> 
> Now what's going on is there is a National Cable Hotline number which I won't give out because nobody but techs are suppose to call it. Working this number from like 9:00 am to 8:00 pm or something like that are 2 techs for the ENTIRE country. That's right, 2 techs that truly understand TiVo's.
> 
> 
> So what do YOU do? You contact [email protected] with the same message you posted. You will get a call within 1 day and you will have techs that come out to fix your problem, and they will come out quickly in a schedule that is convenient for you.
> 
> 
> Now the techs biggest problems are they simply don't know how to navigate through the cable card screens. They don't know where to look for the emm's and they also frequently don't follow the instructions to install one card, make sure it works, then install the second card. After that they have to call in both cable card numbers and have them paired.
> 
> 
> Write down the numbers of the cable cards. They made a mistake reading one of mine back, it's easy to do.
> 
> 
> Steve Fry is the President of TWC NEO and when I had my TiVo HD installed (I already had an S3) I wrote him and complained about the time it took for them to come out and the compentency of the techs.
> 
> 
> Also did you have TiVo prior to 9.4? If that's the case pm me and I'll give you some other help.



Amazing... 15 minutes after I shot my email off to Steve Fry my phone rings and its the Lead Tech from TWC in my area. He was very happy to take me up on my offer to let them use my THD for a few days to get this ironed out. According to him, the TiVos do work perfectly well in other TWC NEO areas. So there is something unique to us over here on the west side that is causing the problem. Hopefully they can figure things out quickly. Thanks Hookbill. Stay tuned...


----------



## edjrwinnt

Good luck KennedyJ and let me know how you make out.


I have called the Time Warner National Cable Card support and they are very knowledgeable (especially compared to the regular Time Warner Tech Support), but they were not able to help me fix this problem.


----------



## magnani




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14638981
> 
> 
> Hey guys. Quick question... Does ANYONE have a working TiVo S3 or HD equipped with CableCards in the TWC Elyria (formerly Comcast) area? I've just spent two painful days tryng to get this working and the Lead TWC tech for my area is saying the the 9.4 TiVo service update has crippled 42 customer's TiVo boxes. I find this hard to believe. Damn this is frustrating.



If your problem isn't solved, the TW National Cable Card Hotline is 866.532.2598


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *magnani* /forum/post/14642755
> 
> 
> If your problem isn't solved, the TW National Cable Card Hotline is 866.532.2598



Thanks magnani.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14642960
> 
> 
> Thanks magnani.



Save yourself the time. I already called these guys and everything looked fine on their end. It's a good number to have for future reference though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14642960
> 
> 
> Thanks magnani.



Don't do it. I've go it on good authority that they will not help you and be pissed off if you call.


Sooka, go cause trouble in your own threads in the TiVo Forum, you don't even live around here.


KennedyJ this guy is nothing but a trouble maker. He goes by the name of Sooka in the TiVo Forum and his soul purpose of coming in here is to read what I write and then see if I wrote something similar at the TiVo Forum. If he figures it out he sends me PM's in the TiVo forum and tires to get me kicked, which doesn't do him any good but he's obsessed to the point of stalking me.


Go to the TiVo Forum and do a search on his name. You will see that just about every post he made is something negative towards me.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14643860
> 
> 
> Don't do it. I've go it on good authority that they will not help you and be pissed off if you call.
> 
> 
> Sooka, go cause trouble in your own threads in the TiVo Forum, you don't even live around here.
> 
> 
> KennedyJ this guy is nothing but a trouble maker. He goes by the name of Sooka in the TiVo Forum and his soul purpose of coming in here is to read what I write and then see if I wrote something similar at the TiVo Forum. If he figures it out he sends me PM's in the TiVo forum and tires to get me kicked, which doesn't do him any good but he's obsessed to the point of stalking me.
> 
> 
> Go to the TiVo Forum and do a search on his name. You will see that just about every post he made is something negative towards me.



Thanks for the heads up Hookbill.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Out of the 4 or 5 times I've called the Time Warner National cable card support only once did the guy ask me how I got the phone number. He still helped me troubleshoot my problem though. They've always been real friendly and helpfull to me. The Time Warner supervisor in downtown Cleveland gave me this number and told me I could call it. Maybe I just got lucky.


The main thing is that Time Warner has your TiVo box KennedyJ and they can troubleshoot it. That is our only hope I think.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14644413
> 
> 
> Out of the 4 or 5 times I've called the Time Warner National cable card support only once did the guy ask me how I got the phone number. He still helped me troubleshoot my problem though. They've always been real friendly and helpfull to me. The Time Warner supervisor in downtown Cleveland gave me this number and told me I could call it. Maybe I just got lucky.
> 
> 
> The main thing is that Time Warner has your TiVo box KennedyJ and they can troubleshoot it. That is our only hope I think.



It's not his only shot. The truth is they only have two guys working the entire nation. They are only suppose to help techs. I have a contact at TW headend and she told me about this and I have read it elsewhere. So if you call them you hang up other techs IF they decide to help you.


She also told me that there was an email sent out to these techs that if they get any calls directly from the public they need to contact customer service.


Steve Fry is his best bet. If these techs don't call that number then he can give it to them and say here, call these guys and tell them who they are. But he should not do it on his own.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Hookbill, you don't understand our situation on the West Side in Lorain County. Having the local head tech test his TiVo on our network is the only solution right now until proven to me otherwise. Our network is very, very complicated and has been bought out many times over the years by many different cable companies. I don't remember the first one, but it's since been bought out by At & T, Comcast and now Time Warner. All this has happened in probably less than 8 years. This problem with the cable card and TiVo is an isolated problem to my city and the surrounding cities.


You are right in one respect, Steve Fry got the ball rolling for us, but the National Cable Tech Support guys have not been able to fix the local problem we have on this local arcane network we are on. In the meantime if I have another cable card issue not related to this I'm going to call them until I'm told otherwise by Time Warner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14645351
> 
> 
> You are right in one respect, Steve Fry got the ball rolling for us, but the National Cable Tech Support guys have not been able to fix the local problem we have on this local arcane network we are on. In the meantime if I have another cable card issue not related to this I'm going to call them until I'm told otherwise by Time Warner.



I do not want to debate this issue on this forum for two reasons, the first is that the majority of people who are in this thread do not have TiVo's and could care less about our problems. The second is we have already been told by TW not to call this number, it's just that you personally have not been told this.


I am going to send you a pm and you and I can discuss this further.


----------



## edjrwinnt

All that I am saying that I've spent about 3+ hours on the phone with the National Time Warner Cable Card Support on two different occasions and everything looks fine on their end. The first time I called them directly and the 2nd time I did a three-way with TiVo Tech Support.


It seems to me that there is a compatibility issue with all these legacy networks that they are using together as one Time Warner Network in my area.


I just would hate to see someone in the same situation as me bang their head against the wall for 5-10 hours, between calls to tech support and truck rolls as I had to in early August only to come up with no fix.


I'd be interested to know if 2 single stream cable cards work like they seem to in my area for the TiVo Series 3 as Ben Music said. I was told that S-cards don't work in my area on the TiVoHD and that was before my problem occurred. Although, if I recall correctly, in one of my dozen truck rolls early this summer, I think we did try a S-Card because they didn't bring a m-card. It didn't work as I recall. But, I think that was with the new Scientific Atlanta Card and not the old Motorola Cards that Time Warner is phasing out. We could never get the SA s-card to work on my Sony PVR so a cable guy was able to finagle a Motorola SD Card and it worked. Maybe 2 Motorola S-Cards is the way to go to fix my problem.


KennedyJ, if you could PM me the head tech's number I would appreciate it. I lost his number. If you talk to him tell him to try two Motorola S-Cards. Ben Music, what kind of cable cards do you have in your S3?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14646914
> 
> *All that I am saying that I've spent about 3+ hours on the phone with the National Time Warner Cable Card Support on two different occasions and everything looks fine on their end*. The first time I called them directly and the 2nd time I did a three-way with TiVo Tech Support.



Please read my pm.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14646914
> 
> 
> All that I am saying that I've spent about 3+ hours on the phone with the National Time Warner Cable Card Support on two different occasions and everything looks fine on their end. The first time I called them directly and the 2nd time I did a three-way with TiVo Tech Support.
> 
> 
> It seems to me that there is a compatibility issue with all these legacy networks that they are using together as one Time Warner Network in my area.
> 
> 
> I just would hate to see someone in the same situation as me bang their head against the wall for 5-10 hours, between calls to tech support and truck rolls as I had to in early August only to come up with no fix.
> 
> 
> I'd be interested to know if 2 single stream cable cards work like they seem to in my area for the TiVo Series 3 as Ben Music said. I was told that S-cards don't work in my area on the TiVoHD and that was before my problem occurred. Although, if I recall correctly, in one of my dozen truck rolls early this summer, I think we did try a S-Card because they didn't bring a m-card. It didn't work as I recall. But, I think that was with the new Scientific Atlanta Card and not the old Motorola Cards that Time Warner is phasing out. We could never get the SA s-card to work on my Sony PVR so a cable guy was able to finagle a Motorola SD Card and it worked. Maybe 2 Motorola S-Cards is the way to go to fix my problem.
> 
> 
> KennedyJ, if you could PM me the head tech's number I would appreciate it. I lost his number. If you talk to him tell him to try two Motorola S-Cards. Ben Music, what kind of cable cards do you have in your S3?



I have two (Comcast) Motorola S-Cards. Everything still working OK. You might be on to something here.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14647703
> 
> 
> I have two (Comcast) Motorola S-Cards. Everything still working OK. You might be on to something here.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Yes, if you were in the old comcast area it would make sense that they would still need the Motorola cards.


----------



## edjrwinnt

First off, thanks everyone for helping me with this. All the Time Warner cable guys that I've talked to have been explicitly told from local management under no circumstances are they to give out anymore Motorola cable cards, and to only give out the new Scientific Atlanta Cable Cards. What's funny is the fact that the Tech from the National Tech Support told me I should be using the Motorola cards. I told him what my local cable guys told me about only being allowed to use the SA Cable Cards.


I do think I am on to something. I sent a text message to the local head tech. to try the Motorola cards. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. If this does work then I'll have to fight Time Warner for a single monthly charge for two cable cards. If they don't work with me on this after all this hassle I'll be seriously PO'd.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14647826
> 
> 
> First off, thanks everyone for helping me with this. All the Time Warner cable guys that I've talked to have been explicitly told from local management under no circumstances are they to give out anymore Motorola cable cards, and to only give out the new Scientific Atlanta Cable Cards. What's funny is the fact that the Tech from the National Tech Support told me I should be using the Motorola cards. I told him what my local cable guys told me about only being allowed to use the SA Cable Cards.
> 
> 
> I do think I am on to something. I sent a text message to the local head tech. to try the Motorola cards. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. If this does work then I'll have to fight Time Warner for a single monthly charge for two cable cards. If they don't work with me on this after all this hassle I'll be seriously PO'd.



I agree that it's looking promissing that this is a Motorola vs. SA issue in our area. I stumbled across a thread on TCF from someone in Mentor having the same problem, and they confirmed our suspicions. Unfortunately there is a reference in the 5th post of the thread that TW is terminating the Motorola feed on September 15th! Ben Music, you may want to circle that day on your calendar in case you run into any problems.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=402383


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14647909
> 
> 
> I agree that it's looking promissing that this is a Motorola vs. SA issue in our area. I stumbled across a thread on TCF from someone in Mentor having the same problem, and they confirmed our suspicions. Unfortunately there is a reference in the 5th post of the thread that TW is terminating the Motorola feed on September 15th! Ben Music, you may want to circle that day on your calendar in case you run into any problems.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=402383



Post from TiVo Thread:


Finally, the missing Digital channels resolved!!

It may only be temporarily, but we now know why.

TWC had a tech here yesterday to install new cards, to fix it. That didn't change a thing, my persistance got a 3 way call with the tech, the person at the office that setup the local cards, and Tivo. Tivo kept saying the cards weren't paired, they tried Single's, and Multi's. to make a LONG!!! story short, the SA Cable Cards won't work with 9.4 The Motorola cards work fine.

Unfortunatley TWC will stop the Moto feed Sept 15th, so I hope they find a fix to the SA cards soon!! This took from 3:30 to after 10 PM!! No thanks to Tivo, and they're aware of TWC and SA CC's losing channels. nice finger pointing, and lack of cooperation. my fear is it's been atleast 3 weeks for me, how much longer before a fix is found? And is it Tivo's fault for the update that is incompatible? or TWC for their Cards not working with 9.4? I would have to say Tivo, they have the ability to test with the technology out there.

so if you live in an area that was Adelphia, and having the same issues, see if you can get Moto CC's, I will keep pushing with TWC for SA CC's that are compatible. (since I can't roll back to 9.3)


----------



## edjrwinnt

I just got off the phone with Casey the lead Tech in my area. Basically he confirmed everything we know about the incompatibility with the SA cable cards. However, he did say they are making headway and they hoped to have a fix within a few days. Just yesterday they made a eye-popping discovery about the feed that we get from Akron that should allow them to fix this problem very soon.


He did confirm that motorola feed will be shut off shortly. Anyone with Motorola cable cards is screwed including me. It's nice that Time Warner gives us advanced notice of what they are doing, but would you expect anything less from this company?


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14648204
> 
> 
> I just got off the phone with Casey the lead Tech in my area. Basically he confirmed everything we know about the incompatibility with the SA cable cards. However, he did say they are making headway and they hoped to have a fix within a few days. Just yesterday they made a eye-popping discovery about the feed that we get from Akron that should allow them to fix this problem very soon.
> 
> 
> He did confirm that motorola feed will be shut off shortly. Anyone with Motorola cable cards is screwed including me. It's nice that Time Warner gives us advanced notice of what they are doing, but would you expect anything less from this company?



Great news! I'm very pleased to hear that progress is being made. Thanks for the update. Hopefully we'll all be enjoying our TiVos early next week.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I went ahead an emailed the technician at TiVo that I know to let him know what's coming with the Motorola Feed shutdown. Hopefully he'll be smart and post a bulletin before a bunch of people start calling next week and the TiVo techs won't have to keep re-inventing the wheel to try and solve the problem that they can't solve.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14648425
> 
> 
> I went ahead an emailed the technician at TiVo that I know to let him know what's coming with the Motorola Feed shutdown. Hopefully he'll be smart and post a bulletin before a bunch of people start calling next week and the TiVo techs won't have to keep re-inventing the wheel to try and solve the problem that they can't solve.



Yeah and hopefully the hurricane won't hit Texas.


----------



## nickdawg

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14649997
> 
> 
> Yeah and hopefully the hurricane won't hit Texas.



LOL. The TiVo tech. told me that TiVo actually took the liberty to send a TiVo to Time Warner to test, so at least TiVo is trying to help out with the problem.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14650631
> 
> 
> LOL. The TiVo tech. told me that TiVo actually took the liberty to send a TiVo to Time Warner to test, so at least TiVo is trying to help out with the problem.



If you read the pm I sent you that's what I advised that person to do.


I know nickdawg, I tired to stop it but I can't control what someone else does.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Thanks Ben and Jason for posting on here and helping me work through this. We are not quite there yet but I think we are getting close. This is the Cleveland Area HDTV thread which is an open forum for people to work together with issues related to Cleveland Area HDTV. This is contrary of course to what the trolls on this thread would try to make you believe.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14651960
> 
> 
> Thanks Ben and Jason for posting on here and helping me work through this. We are not quite there yet but I think we are getting close. This is the Cleveland Area HDTV thread which is an open forum for people to work together with issues related to Cleveland Area HDTV. This is contrary of course to what the trolls on this thread would try to make you believe.



Wait a second. I hope that wasn't directed at me. I simply said that the majority of people on this thread do not own TiVos. Hence nickdawgs comments.


And it would be more appropriate for this type of conversation to go by pm so others didn't get disturbed by it. I tried to be nice and explain that to you even sent you a pm which you haven't even acknowledged about certain issues with the cable cards. But apparently you feel that if it's something that concerns you to heck with the vast majority of the people on this thread, I'll post what I want.


Don't mess with the bull son, you'll get the horns.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Horns? Don't you mean BEAK?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14651797
> 
> 
> If you read the pm I sent you that's what I advised that person to do.
> 
> 
> I know nickdawg, I *tired* to stop it but I can't control what someone else does.



I see hook is subliminally sharing in my sentiments.











This is the Cleveland Ohio HDTV forum, not the Tivo forum. There's a dedicated Tivo forum here plus countless other ones out there.


I had some big news, but now I don't want to share for fear of getting buried in pages of tivo crap...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14652491
> 
> 
> II had some big news, but now I don't want to share for fear of getting buried in pages of tivo crap...



Big News? Please share. Did they dump Navigator? New HD channels coming? You're moving?


----------



## edjrwinnt

I did post in the TiVo forum when this problem originally happened over a month ago. There were about 3 replies and none of them had anything to do with my problem, nor were they from my area. This is an isolated problem in the CLEVELAND area, and had I not posted here then I would not have been on my way to finding a fix.


I'll post where I deem appropriate and you can't stop me. Now if the moderators think I'm out of line here, I'm sure they will let us know.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14652540
> 
> 
> I did post in the TiVo forum when this problem originally happened over a month ago. There were about 3 replies and none of them had anything to do with my problem, nor were they from my area. This is an isolated problem in the CLEVELAND area, and had I not posted here then I would not have been on my way to finding a fix.
> 
> 
> I'll post where I deem appropriate and you can't stop me. Now if the moderators think I'm out of line here, I'm sure they will let us know.



Sorry to waste your time with my "TiVo crap" Nickdog.







But I completely agree with edjrwinnt. This is a CLEVELAND OHIO and HD TIVO problem. Completly appropriate to discuss here. And more than likely will result in a solution due to the open discussion that has occurred.


----------



## Cleveland Plasma

Directv works great over here in N E Ohio for all types of feed including 1080P


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cleveland Plasma* /forum/post/14653845
> 
> 
> Directv works great over here in N E Ohio for all types of feed including 1080P



Then again, directv has the major advantage of a single controlled 'headend' and a limited set of set-tops and firmware versions not to mention VERY limited support for outside devices (no Tivo outside of DTivo units, no actual DBS tuning hardware aside from DTV's boxes and their new PC tuner which is DTV made and operated)


Cable companies like Time Warner have it the hardest with stuff like this due to the scattered regions and wildly varied mix of equipment/hardware/firmware/headend equipment/DOCSIS setup/etc..


----------



## hookbill

C'mon, nickdawg quit holding back. What's the big news?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14652890
> 
> 
> Sorry to waste your time with my "TiVo crap" Nickdog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I completely agree with edjrwinnt. This is a CLEVELAND OHIO and HD TIVO problem. Completly appropriate to discuss here. And more than likely will result in a solution due to the open discussion that has occurred.



At first I thought it wasn't approriate and had no plans on adding to the discussion. However the fact that it seems to be a cable card issue with you successfully using Motorola and edjrwinnt having SA cards is an issue.


Looking at the broader aspect of this fellow forum members should realize that this is the same issue that basically is holding up software updates on their DVR's in these and old Adelphia areas.


It's like trying to attach a distributor cap made for a Chevy on to an old Ford.


edjrwinnt you are free to post whatever you want. As far as a moderator, I doubt one ever even comes in here and the only way it would be an issue is if someone reported your post. Which I doubt anyone would do.


Still you guys got to realize there are probably 5 people who post here who have TiVos. On the other hand who knows how many people lurk and are reading about this issue?


Bottom line is edjrwinnt will probably get his issue solved soon, and KennedyJ will have an issue with his cards at that time. What a mess!


Next time nickdawg posts his zzzzzzz, I'l post some right back at him when he starts complaining about Navigator.










I flip flop more then a politician.










On a happy note for the 5 TiVo people here we got guide data today for Big10Ohio HD. Just in time to watch Ohio stat get it's behind kicked by USC. GO TROJANS!


Have a nice weekend guys.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14654389
> 
> 
> At first I thought it wasn't approriate and had no plans on adding to the discussion. However the fact that it seems to be a cable card issue with you successfully using Motorola and edjrwinnt having SA cards is an issue.
> 
> 
> Looking at the broader aspect of this fellow forum members should realize that this is the same issue that basically is holding up software updates on their DVR's in these and old Adelphia areas.
> 
> 
> It's like trying to attach a distributor cap made for a Chevy on to an old Ford.
> 
> 
> edjrwinnt you are free to post whatever you want. As far as a moderator, I doubt one ever even comes in here and the only way it would be an issue is if someone reported your post. Which I doubt anyone would do.
> 
> 
> Still you guys got to realize there are probably 5 people who post here who have TiVos. On the other hand who knows how many people lurk and are reading about this issue?
> 
> 
> Bottom line is edjrwinnt will probably get his issue solved soon, and KennedyJ will have an issue with his cards at that time. What a mess!
> 
> 
> Next time nickdawg posts his zzzzzzz, I'l post some right back at him when he starts complaining about Navigator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I flip flop more then a politician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a happy note for the 5 TiVo people here we got guide data today for Big10Ohio HD. Just in time to watch Ohio stat get it's behind kicked by USC. GO TROJANS!
> 
> 
> Have a nice weekend guys.



Thanks for changing your tune Hookbill. In the end we all want the same thing here - to be able to enjoy quality HDTV.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Thank you too Hookbill for understanding. It's tough enough having my TiVo down for 6 weeks, and then come on here and get kicked in the nuts.







I'm sorry I used the word "trolls" in the context that I used it in but I hope you understand my frustration.


I watch this thread everyday nickdawg and I get bored too. I've learned to be a good speed reader and sort through the stuff that just interests me, and most of it doesn't interest me but that's okay.










I think the thread should be renamed to "As Time Warner Turns".


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14654827
> 
> 
> ..............
> 
> 
> I think the thread should be renamed to "as time warner turns".


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cleveland Plasma* /forum/post/14653845
> 
> 
> Directv works great over here in N E Ohio for all types of feed including 1080P



Ditto for Dish Network! We got our 1st 1080p VOD selection this month! (now if only I had a screen to enjoy that full resolution).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14654949
> 
> 
> Ditto for Dish Network! We got our 1st 1080p VOD selection this month! (now if only I had a screen to enjoy that full resolution).



Well you are talking to the right guy (Cleveland Plasma) to get that HD screen.










He sells & installs HD panels, specializes in Plasma & LCD, delivers what he promises, knows his stuff, local company, carries only good quality brands & products, great guy!


He sold and installed my NEC Plasma over 2.5 years ago and his advice on make, model, type, and needs were DEAD ON! I could not be more satisfied with all aspects of his business and services. 100% satisfied customer here (among many others).


----------



## hookbill

It's funny, I can't remember anymore who advised me on my LCD selection but they were dead on by suggesting 720p over 1080p and a larger screen then I was looking at. Last night I was watching the 2 hour Bones I recorded and had that "wow" feeling all the way through.


Of course Bones is broadcast in 720p. Maybe it does make a difference. I never noticed it with my 1080i CRT Sony Wega.


----------



## JJkizak

Viewing a live 720P program OTA verses a 1080P HD-DVD is extremely close in quality on a 1080P set. If your vision is not quite up to snuff you probably won't tell the difference. There are some sequences on Bones that are very "film type grainy".

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14657414
> 
> 
> Viewing a live 720P program OTA verses a 1080P HD-DVD is extremely close in quality on a 1080P set. If your vision is not quite up to snuff you probably won't tell the difference. There are some sequences on Bones that are very "film type grainy".
> 
> JJK



I will admit that there are people out there who can probably notice differences in HD quality. However please keep in mind that when I watch a recording it is via a THX Certified DVR. It was as clean as it could be. At least to me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14654389
> 
> 
> 
> On a happy note for the 5 TiVo people here we got guide data today for Big10Ohio HD. J*ust in time to watch Ohio stat get it's behind kicked by USC.* GO TROJANS!
> 
> 
> Have a nice weekend guys.


*

BLASPHEMY!!!!*


YOU ARE BANNED!!!!


This game is painful!


----------



## Inundated

People all over Columbus are looking for bridges right about now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14658496
> 
> 
> People all over Columbus are looking for bridges right about now.



If they find one, let me know!










A sucky day at the dawg house. The nickdawg house that is. Akron loses, Ohio State loses.










Oh well, tomorrow we get to watch the Browns lose too...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14658292
> 
> *
> 
> BLASPHEMY!!!!*
> 
> 
> YOU ARE BANNED!!!!
> 
> 
> This game is painful!



Hey, if you couldn't see this coming you should have a white cane and a guide dog.


Kudoos to Ohio State, they did score 3 points.
























Top that off with the fact that the Dodgers are now 41/2 games over Arizona in the N.L. West and have been playing great since the acquisitions of *Casey Blake and Manny Rameriz*, plus their closer Takashi Saito is returning I thought yesterday was just a great day!










Last I saw the Angels were like 18 games in front in their division. It's only a matter of time until LeBron goes to the Lakers now that he's played with Kobe Bryant in the Olympics.


Yes, things are going well. Hopefully we will see the Dodgers in playoffs and the World Series in HD. A Freeway World Series in HD would be nice, you'd get a chance to see all the fine looking young women in Southern California in HD. And you might as well write in USC for the BCS, which you can watch in HD as well on FOX.


Come on nickdawg, you might as well cheer along with me. You have nothing else to cheer for. Your baseball team is out of it. You have as much chance of going to the playoffs in the NFL as Los Angeles. Oh, that's right L.A. doesn't have a pro team. Well, neither does Cleveland.







The way Pittsburgh played last week I can only imagine how bad they will beat up the Browns. And to stay on topic that game is on HD as well.


----------



## JJkizak

I feel sorry for the Sunday Night Football announcers. What will they say at the half when the Browns are loosing 28-0.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14659790
> 
> 
> I feel sorry for the Sunday Night Football announcers. What will they say at the half when the Browns are loosing 28-0.
> 
> JJK



They'll talk about the OSU game.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14659840
> 
> 
> They'll talk about the OSU game.



You mean they will talk about the USC game.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14659861
> 
> 
> you mean they will talk about the usc game.



ha!


----------



## ErieMarty

I know we all should be happy that Time Warner gave us Big Ten Network in HD..


But Seriously does anyone have any inside information when they might be getting serious about adding more HD channels to there line up.?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14660482
> 
> 
> I know we all should be happy that Time Warner gave us Big Ten Network in HD..
> 
> 
> But Seriously does anyone have any inside information when they might be getting serious about adding more HD channels to there line up.?



Not anymore then you would get from customer service. I talked to my contact at headend about USA and she said they are in "negotiations" which is the same thing a CSR would tell you.


There use to be a person named hanson or something like that who had an inside to Adelphia, but I haven't heard from him in a long time and his last prediction was wrong.


I think Cathode Kid has some contact as well but he hasn't said anything.


TW is pretty tight lipped about these things and we usually don't hear about it until a couple of days before.


----------



## ErieMarty

TW didn't have any problems adding 3 HD channels for the Olympics..so the idea of problems of bandwith as being the reason not to add anymore are unfounded in my eyes.


So what is the holdup ??? I would love to know


----------



## paule123

I see WOIO is asleep at the switch today. The NFL Today pregame show is not HD. Why does this kind of thing still happen? You would think this would be automated by now.


Edit: Just called them they said they are having a problem with the CBS feed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14660650
> 
> 
> TW didn't have any problems adding 3 HD channels for the Olympics..so the idea of problems of bandwith as being the reason not to add anymore are unfounded in my eyes.
> 
> 
> So what is the holdup ??? I would love to know



I'd guess bandwidth limitations are indeed a concern. They, obviously, are not at full capacity but must plan carefully for future added stations plus leave some head room.


Adding stations willy-nilly creates just the flak you are seeing about the temporarily added Olympic channels. They were offered as a temporary "gift" or free-bee to their digital tier customers, and now TWC is getting an earful because they have removed those temporary feeds.


Any added station will not please everyone and the typical "if they can add Big Ten Network in HD then why can't they add Soap TV in HD" will inevitably happen. I'd guess if they add a station it's supposed to be well thought out, well planned, work out all the legal BS (contracts), and shoot for longevity of that added channel. Throw in doing customer research to find out which channels are most desired and/or most watched would add to this complexity.


I'm with you, the more HD the better! I'm just throwing out some reasons TWC and other cable/sat systems are probably careful and cautious about adding channels, HD or not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14660650
> 
> 
> TW didn't have any problems adding 3 HD channels for the Olympics..so the idea of problems of bandwith as being the reason not to add anymore are unfounded in my eyes.
> 
> 
> So what is the holdup ??? I would love to know



Not to step on Toby 10's toes but the problem is the fact that we are dealing with a cable company. A cable company that is very tight with the purse strings.


In other words they don't want to pay what some channels want which is why they are always in "negotiations."


Consider the previous discussion we were having about cable cards. TW has two people managing the cable card hot line for the entire nation. 2 people, that's it.


So the hold up is they are cheap. Just like all the other BIG cable companies.


----------



## hookbill

Take a look at  this . Sound familiar?

*Anyone in the TW West Valley area having a problem with their cable cards on a Series 3?


I'm suddenly not getting lots of channels on both cable cards. Some are basic network channels = 3,8,12. I get a message "Channel not available. You may need cablecard decoders..." and a grey screen.


Re-ran guided setup = no change. Any ideas?? I don't know whether to call TiVo or TW.


Thanks, CB*


Now that's in the TiVo link but when I clicked on it I thought this is the same thing we were talking about and started to answer, hey buddy take a look a page back. Then I realized I wasn't in the local thread. He's on the West side of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14661206
> 
> 
> Not to step on Toby 10's toes but the problem is the fact that we are dealing with a cable company. A cable company that is very tight with the purse strings.
> 
> 
> In other words they don't want to pay what some channels want which is why they are always in "negotiations."
> 
> 
> Consider the previous discussion we were having about cable cards. TW has two people managing the cable card hot line for the entire nation. 2 people, that's it.
> 
> 
> So the hold up is they are cheap. Just like all the other BIG cable companies.



Yep. Calling a spade a spade...


A family member of mine used to work for TW. Not lower end, not upper managment either, somewhere in the middle. He was there for 13 years, until the last 2 years of his tenre he received no pay raise what-so-ever, not even a cost of living raise. So, he left and went to AT&T/Ameritech/SBC or whatever the heck it's called now. Less hours, less work, more pay (about 12% more than at TW), and a company truck to use at will.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14661234
> 
> 
> Take a look at this . Sound familiar?
> 
> *Anyone in the TW West Valley area having a problem with their cable cards on a Series 3?
> 
> 
> I'm suddenly not getting lots of channels on both cable cards. Some are basic network channels = 3,8,12. I get a message "Channel not available. You may need cablecard decoders..." and a grey screen.
> 
> 
> Re-ran guided setup = no change. Any ideas?? I don't know whether to call TiVo or TW.
> 
> 
> Thanks, CB*
> 
> 
> Now that's in the TiVo link but when I clicked on it I thought this is the same thing we were talking about and started to answer, hey buddy take a look a page back. Then I realized I wasn't in the local thread. He's on the West side of the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.



Interesting. How many people are going to make posts like this on here later this week when the Motorola Cable Card Feed is shutdown?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14661940
> 
> 
> Interesting. How many people are going to make posts like this on here later this week when the Motorola Cable Card Feed is shutdown?



He responded said that he is TW native so he is not in the take over area. But that doesn't mean anything.


Even if he was TW native at one time it was owned by another company before TW bought it. He said he has an SA 8300 and it was off on Friday, then back on by Firday night. He thinks it's a software update. Maybe Navigator?


Now to the best of my knowledge an update to Navigator shouldn't affect a cable card but who knows, these things are so darn touchy.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14659728
> 
> 
> Hey, if you couldn't see this coming you should have a white cane and a guide dog.
> 
> 
> Come on nickdawg, you might as well cheer along with me. You have nothing else to cheer for. Your baseball team is out of it. You have as much chance of going to the playoffs in the NFL as Los Angeles. Oh, that's right L.A. doesn't have a pro team. Well, neither does Cleveland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The way Pittsburgh played last week I can only imagine how bad they will beat up the Browns. And to stay on topic that game is on HD as well.



I had a feeling it was coming, I just didn't want to admit it. I'll never cheer for the other side!!! There should be a point system and every time someone cheers for the wrong side they lose some points.







Like if you cheer FOR USC, Pittsburgh, Kent, Tivo, Directv or worst of all MICHIGAN!!!










Only cheering for Ohio State, Zips, Browns, TWC and SARA is allowed here.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14661206
> 
> 
> ............
> 
> So the hold up is they are cheap. Just like all the other BIG cable companies.



That as well.


----------



## JJkizak

Jim Brown walking with a cane? What's the world coming to?

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341

I recall reading a few pages back (although I cannot find the post now) about the possibility of WEWS showing CSI Miami weekend reruns in HD. Well I don't know about Miami (it's running later now than it used to) but CSI NY Weekend was in HD this weekend.


----------



## schmit01

Hey I have a question for all of you.


I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.


my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???


thanks

Mike


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14667382
> 
> 
> I recall reading a few pages back (although I cannot find the post now) about the possibility of WEWS showing CSI Miami weekend reruns in HD. Well I don't know about Miami (it's running later now than it used to) but CSI NY Weekend was in HD this weekend.



Yes. Both CSI: NY and CSI: Miami weekend episodes now air in HD on WEWS. Both WEWS and WKYC have been excellent with HD this season. WKYC is also airing Dr. Phil and Entertainment Tonight in HD. They even showed the NBC primetime preview show in HD this week as well. Makes me wish WEWS or WKYC would pick up the reruns of Two and a Half Men and Everybody Loves Raymond. And I wish WEWS as an ABC station would have also picked up the syndicated episodes of Lost and Desperate Housewives in HD as well.


Also, that bug news I was talking about, hookbill. I got a response from WKYC about Ellen in HD. It has to do with the distributor. Dr. Phil and Entertainment Tonight gave WKYC the equipment they need to receive the HD broadcast. They're waiting for the equipment from WB for the Ellen show.


Very friendly and prompt. I was impressed by WKYC. I've emailed another Cleveland TV station in the past about HD issues and had no response at alll. What a shock, considering who it was.


----------



## bassguitarman

Totally unrelated. I see Roadrunners webmail interface changed a lot today. Much fancier but its also ad driven.

Dave


----------



## Smarty-pants

That's something that I still don't fully understand. I know it's all about the money, but you'd think that when you pay $40-$50 a month for a service that is basically worth $10, that they would relent on all the in-your-face ads







.


----------



## Tim Lones

OT-A post on "Cleveland Comedy Company" a Cleveland-centered copy of "Saturday Night Live", aired sometime in 1980 on WEWS-TV 5

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspot.com/ 


Included are 2 video clips..Thought some of the regulars might like the part about "EyewitnessActionCenter News"..In the second video..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schmit01* /forum/post/14667470
> 
> 
> Hey I have a question for all of you.
> 
> 
> I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.
> 
> 
> my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> Mike



I'm not an OTA person but I know enough to tell you that nobody can answer your question with accuracy, because nobody knows what surrounds you, interferes with you, etc.


But I would think the basic answer to your question is this: Does dropping the turbo package cost more then 25 bucks?


You can get some answers to your questions at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx 


And you have to ask yourself, do you want to go through all this trouble if you are keeping your satellite anyway?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schmit01* /forum/post/14667470
> 
> 
> Hey I have a question for all of you.
> 
> 
> I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.
> 
> 
> my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> Mike



You need an antenna and an ATSC tuner (probably in your tv) and the std RG6/RG59 cable between them.


Your HD PQ via OTA is every bit as good as any cable or sat local HD (some would argue a better PQ due to less compression).


Whether you would need a directional, omni-directional, or even a simple set of rabbit ears I dunno. As hookbill has suggested start at antennaweb.org to see what antenna you may require.


I just yesterday (sunday) installed a directional antenna in Lakewood on top of a commercial building (three floors) for a friend. But he is only utilizing the analog signals so I cannot comment on DTV reception at his location.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14667875
> 
> 
> .......
> 
> And you have to ask yourself, do you want to go through all this trouble if you are keeping your satellite anyway?



At $5 per channel I'd say it's well worth the trouble.










Though that does seem rather pricey.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14667471
> 
> 
> Makes me wish WEWS or WKYC would pick up the reruns of Two and a Half Men and Everybody Loves Raymond.



I wrote WBNX about ELR - not because I really watch it, but because I'm curious about the status of HD reruns/syndication locally. Their response?



> Quote:
> Live programming thru the network is fed in HD.
> 
> Any programs in syndication require special equipment which we do not have
> 
> at this time. We will have the equipment in the near future.



A quick check of the Tribune/Zap2It listings shows "Two and a Half Men" syndication on WUAB/43. So much for that being in HD any time soon.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schmit01* /forum/post/14667470
> 
> 
> Hey I have a question for all of you.
> 
> 
> I have a Vizio VX37L and Dish network HD. I am thinking about switching to the turbo HD package because i barely watch 75% of the channels i have and want to lower my bill, but they want to charge me 5 bucks for each local hd channel if i do this.
> 
> 
> my question is how good would the OTA HD siqnal be in lakewood and what would i need to get to use it???
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> Mike



I'm a Dish Network customer since 1997. The Cleveland locals are $5 for the whole package, not per channel. To drop a package there is a $5 charge - again per package, not per channel. However if you used the OTA tuner in your satellite receiver you would lose the guide data if you don't subscribe to the locals package. If you used the tuner in your Visio you would only get the limited data that the stations send out (sometimes it's only the current program and the one following). With the EPG from Dish you get 9 days of data!


Is your satellite receiver a DVR? If so get DVR advantage - it will save you some fees that you are now paying.


Check out this site for more DBS related issues: http://www.dbstalk.com/index.php 


BTW: The analog OTA reception in Lakewood for the analog stations was bad due to terrain and Hopkins Airport traffic. While in analog a few ghosts would just be an annoyance, in digital they could be the kiss of death.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14669202
> 
> 
> I'm a Dish Network customer since 1997. The Cleveland locals are $5 for the whole package, not per channel.......



Now that seems more realistic. $5 per month to receive all locals in HD is a fair price. Now I'd certainly agree with you and hookbill, it isn't worth the trouble or lack of features to not pay the $5 per month.










$5 x 7 channels per month, no friggin way!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14669202
> 
> 
> ..............BTW: The analog OTA reception in Lakewood for the analog stations was bad due to terrain and Hopkins Airport traffic. While in analog a few ghosts would just be an annoyance, in digital they could be the kiss of death.



He just ordered his DTV Coupon. When we hook it up I'll report back on Digital OTA reception.


----------



## paule123

PBS 45/49 was doing fundraising this weekend and Trina Cutter the CEO was mentioning how excited she was about the digital transition next February. She said one of the "neat" things they will be able to do is run 4 subchannels (like Create and Kids). So look for their PQ to go in the toilet next year. Too bad.


Oh, and they are "rebranding" themselves to " Western Reserve Public Media ". Really irritates me that they beg for money and then spend it on needless branding strategies.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14669181
> 
> 
> I wrote WBNX about ELR - not because I really watch it, but because I'm curious about the status of HD reruns/syndication locally. Their response?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A quick check of the Tribune/Zap2It listings shows "Two and a Half Men" syndication on WUAB/43. So much for that being in HD any time soon.



I think we'll see HD syndication on WBNX long before we see it on WOIO or WUAB. Especially since WBNX now carries Lost, DH and ELR. Plus who knows what is yet to come in syndication. WBNX has been more advanced since they went live. They first had the ability to run the weather crawl over HD network programming. WOIO and WUAB are flakey on that. WBNX owns WUAB and even WOIO in terms of quality. I might send them a message as well, since I had such great luck with WKYC. no pint in even bothering with WUAB, as they don't respond and don't care.


Maybe WUAB will lose 2.5 Men and WBNX will pick it up in HD one day. Seems most of the synication on WUAB ends up on WBNX.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14669461
> 
> 
> PBS 45/49 was doing fundraising this weekend and Trina Cutter the CEO was mentioning how excited she was about the digital transition next February. She said one of the "neat" things they will be able to do is run 4 subchannels (like Create and Kids). So look for their PQ to go in the toilet next year. Too bad.
> 
> 
> Oh, and they are "rebranding" themselves to " Western Reserve Public Media ". Really irritates me that they beg for money and then spend it on needless branding strategies.



Sounds like WNEO will be just as bad as WVIZ. I won't even acknowledge that WVIZ is on my cable because of their poor quality. Seems like their channel goes out often, I see a blank screen on 411 as well as on their multicast channels in 363 and 364.


On a good note, I noticed that WNEO is outputting at 720p on the main feed. That should help make the picture _not as bad_(relatively speaking) with the extra multicast channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14669461
> 
> 
> PBS 45/49 was doing fundraising this weekend and Trina Cutter the CEO was mentioning how excited she was about the digital transition next February. She said one of the "neat" things they will be able to do is run 4 subchannels (like Create and Kids). So look for their PQ to go in the toilet next year. Too bad.



Don't blame Trina...running multiple subchannels is basically what PBS stations do. Maybe they'll be smart about it, like some PBS stations, and turn off all the extra subchannels during prime time...giving the bandwidth to HD. And keep in mind...I would think that the SD simulcast on 45/49 goes away after 2/17.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14669516
> 
> 
> I think we'll see HD syndication on WBNX long before we see it on WOIO or WUAB. Especially since WBNX now carries Lost, DH and ELR. Plus who knows what is yet to come in syndication.



Well, the response I got from WBNX was at least a little encouraging - "we will have", not "we're looking into it" or something similar. It sounds like they have a plan. Or maybe I'm reading into it, but I agree, I would be shocked if WOIO/WUAB started running their syndie shows in HD before WBNX does.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14669550
> 
> 
> Well, the response I got from WBNX was at least a little encouraging - "we will have", not "we're looking into it" or something similar. It sounds like they have a plan. Or maybe I'm reading into it, but I agree, I would be shocked if WOIO/WUAB started running their syndie shows in HD before WBNX does.




Question: Who owns WUAB?


Answer: Raycom Media.


Now let's play Jeopardy:


The cheapest bunch of broadcast owners, some say that they are comparable to cable companies like Time Warner and Comcast.


Your question please?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14669263
> 
> 
> Now that seems more realistic. $5 per month to receive all locals in HD is a fair price. Now I'd certainly agree with you and hookbill, it isn't worth the trouble or lack of features to not pay the $5 per month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $5 x 7 channels per month, no friggin way!




I didn't even think about pointing out that he was wrong about that. I'm also not a satellite person, but I use to be. I still have my space suit in the closet and if I continue to lose weight I may even fit into it someday.


When I do my wife will probably launch me ASAP, so I don't want to lose too much weight!


Now after that very funny comment







a small rant.


I notice this guys post and he doesn't get a response. So I figure I will get the ball rolling and start the discussion. We get it figured out, give him some good info and does he even come back and say thanks?


Maybe he never read the comments and is out spending all that money.


----------



## JJkizak

Anybody know if WVPX (23) (OTA) is going to go digital?

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14672030
> 
> 
> I didn't even think about pointing out that he was wrong about that. I'm also not a satellite person, but I use to be. I still have my space suit in the closet and if I continue to lose weight I may even fit into it someday.
> 
> 
> When I do my wife will probably launch me ASAP, so I don't want to lose too much weight!



I'll bet that space suit is a turn on for your wife!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14672014
> 
> 
> The cheapest bunch of broadcast owners, some say that they are comparable to cable companies like Time Warner and Comcast.
> 
> 
> Your question please?



Who are Raycom Media, NexStar and Sinclair?











Yeah, I was agreeing up there...I said I WOULD be shocked if WOIO/WUAB did their syndie shows in HD before WBNX. I'm betting on the former frog (which is still up on the side of the WBNX studios on State Road, BTW, long after A] the WB abandoned the frog mascot and B] the WB went away entirely for the CW).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14672290
> 
> 
> Anybody know if WVPX (23) (OTA) is going to go digital?
> 
> JJK



February 17, 2009. Not a moment sooner.


WVPX had a digital allotment (RF 59), but never worked out the Canadian coordination issues...and even if they had done that, they'd have to abandon it in February anyway, since 59 is out of the digital core (2-51).


So, WVPX will flash cut to digital on 23 at the transition.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14672014
> 
> 
> Question: Who owns WUAB?
> 
> 
> Answer: Raycom Media.
> 
> 
> Now let's play Jeopardy:
> 
> 
> The cheapest bunch of broadcast owners, some say that they are comparable to cable companies like Time Warner and Comcast.
> 
> 
> Your question please?



They don't call it 'Raycheap' for nothing!!!
































> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14672702
> 
> 
> Who are Raycom Media, NexStar and Sinclair?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was agreeing up there...I said I WOULD be shocked if WOIO/WUAB did their syndie shows in HD before WBNX. I'm betting on the former frog (which is still up on the side of the WBNX studios on State Road, BTW, long after A] the WB abandoned the frog mascot and B] the WB went away entirely for the CW).



I've seen that frog too. Looks like it cost alot of money so I guess they didn't want to trash it. Don't blame them, it's a nice frog. Plus I think they actually put it up right before the final season of the WB and that was also the year the WB stopped using the frog mascot.


----------



## paule123

Anybody know what's holding up the broad rollout of AT&T's U-Verse around here? Here in Shaker we've had the lovely VRAD lawn boxes planted for something like a couple years now, and still not a peep out of ATT as to when they will start offering service. IIRC, the state passed that law that lets ATT override the local municipalities' franchise restrictions, so I would have thought U-Verse would be everywhere by now.


On another note, I'm not real happy with WOW's high speed internet service lately - been getting a lot of severe slowdowns and dropouts in the evening hours. Any other WOW people seeing this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14675693
> 
> 
> Anybody know what's holding up the broad rollout of AT&T's U-Verse around here? Here in Shaker we've had the lovely VRAD lawn boxes planted for something like a couple years now, and still not a peep out of ATT as to when they will start offering service. IIRC, the state passed that law that lets ATT override the local municipalities' franchise restrictions, so I would have thought U-Verse would be everywhere by now.
> 
> 
> On another note, I'm not real happy with WOW's high speed internet service lately - been getting a lot of severe slowdowns and dropouts in the evening hours. Any other WOW people seeing this?



I haven't seen any of their boxes in my neck of the woods but you are correct, they did buy the votes they needed to pass the law that overrides locality franchise restrictions. Another fine example of how crooked the government is in Ohio.


Who does the landline phone service in your area? Is it AT&T or Windstream? Because it seems to me that seems to be the hold up at least in my area.


Now when this law was passed, why didn't Verizon jump in on this? That's another mystery.


I think it has to do with phone company territories. In other words, if you're in Windstream area no U-Verse for you. And we will never see FIOS.


You can see if you're eligable for U-Verse by clicking here . I'll bet you're in AT&T area and that's why you see the boxes. Also you can check a box to be notified if you're not available right now.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14675894
> 
> 
> Who does the landline phone service in your area? Is it AT&T or Windstream? Because it seems to me that seems to be the hold up at least in my area.
> 
> 
> Now when this law was passed, why didn't Verizon jump in on this? That's another mystery.
> 
> 
> I think it has to do with phone company territories. In other words, if you're in Windstream area no U-Verse for you. And we will never see FIOS.



It's all AT&T here in Shaker. Verizon wouldn't/couldn't have jumped on it because they have no infrastructure here, they're not the incumbent phone company that owns the wires and the central offices.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14676045
> 
> 
> It's all AT&T here in Shaker. Verizon wouldn't/couldn't have jumped on it because they have no infrastructure here, they're not the incumbent phone company that owns the wires and the central offices.



Exactly! So when you clicked the link what happened when you clicked the link? It seems to me you should be able to get it.


Now that we have established that you are in AT&T country let's talk about broadband. My experience with it was through Cincinnati Bell and it was terrible. Constant outages. I've been very happy with Adelphia/RoadRunner.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14675894
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any of their boxes in my neck of the woods...



Don't hold your breath waiting for them to appear in Windstream land. The only other telco setting up a fibre to the neighborhood system is Verizion's FIOS (which some believe is superior to U-Verse).


I believe at&t suffered a setback when their back-up batteries started exploding and the manufacturer of those batteries went bankrupt. I believe someone posted a picture of an exploded U-Verse box about 6 or 8 months back on this very forum.


The at&t techs have been potsing around with those boxes in my neighborhood for quite awhile now with no end in sight. All I want it for is high-speed broadband.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14675693
> 
> 
> On another note, I'm not real happy with WOW's high speed internet service lately - been getting a lot of severe slowdowns and dropouts in the evening hours. Any other WOW people seeing this?



WOW high-speed has been consistently good for me. Almost always get download speeds of 4Mbps or more.


About two months ago, I had a couple of days where it was slow in the afternoon. I called CS and they sent someone out to give me a new modem, even though the situation seemed to resolve itself after they sent a hit to reset the modem.


Yesterday, I had a slowdown late afternoon, but called CS and they sent a hit to reset my modem and all was instantly fine again. I was thinking that it was a remnant of the storm and cable outage the night before.


On a side note, with the cable/Internet outage, I was glad that I had landline service with AT&T.


----------



## Inundated

I have one of those shiny, new, refrigerator-sized boxes out front, and the qualification tool says I can't get U-verse yet.


There may be some other issues at play here that are bringing that result up as a false negative.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14676089
> 
> 
> Exactly! So when you clicked the link what happened when you clicked the link? It seems to me you should be able to get it.



It says I can't get it, and I've tried random addresses around the east side and they all come up empty. I think there's a area of Mayfield Heights that has it, they were one of the first to get it because they let ATT in before the law was passed. I've also called them and asked and just get vague answers.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14676089
> 
> 
> Now that we have established that you are in AT&T country let's talk about broadband. My experience with it was through Cincinnati Bell and it was terrible. Constant outages. I've been very happy with Adelphia/RoadRunner.



I had ATT DSL for many years and never had problems with it, I had much less latency/outages than with the WOW cable HSI. The problem with ATT is my distance from the central office, I max out at 2Mbps. With U-Verse however I would be able to get 6Mbps. Also with the DSL, ATT plays that game of signing you up for 12 months at a low teaser rate, then slamming you with a $60 bill on the 13th month. Then you play the musical CSR's to find one to renew you at the lower rate, and good luck trying to get credit for the one or two months they screwed you for. After a few years of playing that game with ATT, I got fed up.


Oh, and there was the silly landline requirement they had for a while with the ATT DSL, so that slapped on another $40 of mostly garbage fees and taxes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14676220
> 
> 
> I had ATT DSL for many years and never had problems with it, I had much less latency/outages than with the WOW cable HSI. The problem with ATT is my distance from the central office, I max out at 2Mbps. With U-Verse however I would be able to get 6Mbps. Also with the DSL, ATT plays that game of signing you up for 12 months at a low teaser rate, then slamming you with a $60 bill on the 13th month. Then you play the musical CSR's to find one to renew you at the lower rate, and good luck trying to get credit for the one or two months they screwed you for. After a few years of playing that game with ATT, I got fed up.
> 
> 
> Oh, and there was the silly landline requirement they had for a while with the ATT DSL, so that slapped on another $40 of mostly garbage fees and taxes.



I wanted to correct that from "broadband" to DSL. That's what I meant.


AT&T is no different then the major cable companies. They will put it to you any chance they get.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg has talked a bit about how they have all digital in his area. In my area we still don't.


Despite the fact that WBNX is now in HD it is still shown in analog in our area, as opposed to WUAB which is analog converted to digital. So I decided to check out how much disk space an hour long show takes.


Now some of you may know or not know that I am a bit of a daytime court show freak. I don't record them all, just a few. For an hour long show I chose The Peoples Court (analog) vs Judge Mathis (digital).


One of the things TiVo does not have that cable companies have on their DVR's is the Disk Space Graph. However a creative person in the TiVo Forum created a program that will actually show you not only the graph, but also how much space each show is using. You can see the space amount also on the TiVo info button when you go to play a show which I imagine is how he gets his info.


Anyway it works out to this: Peoples Court, 2.70gb. Judge Mathis 1.26 GB.


So it takes over twice the amount of space for an analog show vs a digital show. I should add this is recording on my "best" choice for analog. Digital does not give you that choice. And think about all those channels in analog still! What a waste of space.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14676097
> 
> 
> WOW high-speed has been consistently good for me. Almost always get download speeds of 4Mbps or more.
> 
> 
> About two months ago, I had a couple of days where it was slow in the afternoon. I called CS and they sent someone out to give me a new modem, even though the situation seemed to resolve itself after they sent a hit to reset the modem.
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I had a slowdown late afternoon, but called CS and they sent a hit to reset my modem and all was instantly fine again. I was thinking that it was a remnant of the storm and cable outage the night before.
> 
> 
> On a side note, with the cable/Internet outage, I was glad that I had landline service with AT&T.



Same here, WOW cable/internet/phone has been quite reliable. I regularly run as many as three internet media streaming devices simultaneously (including evenings) with out even a hiccup.


Maybe twice a year the WOW Voip/Internet modem will have a tantrum, but a simple 30 second hold of it's reset button resolves it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14679790
> 
> 
> So it takes over twice the amount of space for an analog show vs a digital show. I should add this is recording on my "best" choice for analog. Digital does not give you that choice. And think about all those channels in analog still! What a waste of space.



Every CE device that digitizes an analog program in order to record it has to pass it through an A-->D converter, then through the mpeg compressor. Those stages are built around CE-quality chipsets. They do the job, but there are design compromises that must be made in terms of balancing performance vs price. As a result, they're not the most efficient chipsets in the market.


A program that starts out as digital has already been compressed by a very high end system, either during post production, uplinking or distribution. These systems are far more efficient at squeezing out redundant data, so they're able to leave a smaller footprint on your hard drive.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14679790
> 
> 
> However a creative person in the TiVo Forum created a program that will actually show you not only the graph, but also how much space each show is using.



Since I'm too lazy to search for this, do you have a link to this program? This is one feature I'd love to add to my TiVo...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14686605
> 
> 
> Since I'm too lazy to search for this, do you have a link to this program? This is one feature I'd love to add to my TiVo...



As you may or may not know I have been banned from the TiVo Forum but I contacted a "friend"







and he was able to come up with the following: http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/c/dcahoe/tivo/index.htm .


I had some problem the last time I tried to download from that link but the designer of the program was in Hawaii and I contacted him at his email which is [email protected] . He sent me a copy of the program so if you have problems contact him, although I'll bet the link is fixed now. You can and should also leave a paypal donation at that address after you have tried this. It's truly a wonderful app. You will need your mak number for the password and the user name is tivo in small letters just like I typed it. You only need to type in the size of your hard drive, i.e. my S3 has 750gb with the eSATA and then you can figure out the rest. You will also need to write down the ip address of your TiVo (s). If it's on a protected wireless server like mine you may need to change it from time to time but it's usually just one number at the end and you cand just play with it until you find it, or go look at the TiVo at your phone and wireless settings.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14679790
> 
> 
> Despite the fact that WBNX is now in HD it is still shown in analog in our area, as opposed to WUAB which is analog converted to digital.



I'm confused...you don't get WBNX HD on 407? Or are you just recording analog 7?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14691599
> 
> 
> I'm confused...you don't get WBNX HD on 407? Or are you just recording analog 7?



In the words of another American Icon, Richard Nixon, "Let me be perfectly clear."










Yes, I get WBNX HD on 407. I also get WBNX analog on channel 7.


My complaint is the fact the WBNX is not available to us on channel 7 in digital.


And I'm also complaining about all the other channels that are still in analog.


If nickdawg can get digital and they convert it to analog for their no box people, why can't we? And analog converted to digital is not that great. It really seems stupid to have analog channels converted to digital and not vice versa.


Plus the fact that nickdawg doesn't deserve anything better then what I get. I don't like the idea of him having any advantage over me.










And yes I know, I've already said it "digital doesn't mean better then analog" but it does use more bandwith.


I swear we live in the bizarro world when it comes to cable television around here.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Yes, I get WBNX HD on 407. I also get WBNX analog on channel 7.
> 
> 
> My complaint is the fact the WBNX is not available to us on channel 7 in digital.












How can ch 7 be digital if it's analog? What you really want to say is why can't 407 be _mapped down_ to 7 on your TiVO. I presume the digitals map down on all the standard issue cable boxes, as it also does on my Dish Network DVR and I presume on the DirecTV IRD's too.


Does 3, 5, 8 & 19 map down in digital on your TiVO? If so you have a letigimate beef with TW. All the locals should map down in digital equally.


BTW: on my E* 622 I get 3 of every local station: SD via satellite, HD via satellite, and HD via OTA, al mapped down to the proper channel (sort-of) 003-00 is both the SD & HD satelite-delivered number, while 003-01 is the HD OTA. This came in handy the other day when WEWS had a problem with the audio feed on their HD feed. Both the satellite and OTA feed were silent, while the SD feed (analog digitized by E*) had audio.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14691671
> 
> 
> In the words of another American Icon, Richard Nixon, "Let me be perfectly clear."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I get WBNX HD on 407. I also get WBNX analog on channel 7.
> 
> *My complaint is the fact the WBNX is not available to us on channel 7 in digital.*
> 
> 
> And I'm also complaining about all the other channels that are still in analog.
> 
> 
> If nickdawg can get digital and they convert it to analog for their no box people, why can't we? And analog converted to digital is not that great. It really seems stupid to have analog channels converted to digital and not vice versa.
> 
> 
> Plus the fact that nickdawg doesn't deserve anything better then what I get. I don't like the idea of him having any advantage over me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes I know, I've already said it "digital doesn't mean better then analog" but it does use more bandwith.
> 
> 
> I swear we live in the bizarro world when it comes to cable television around here.



Quit complaining!!! The faux-digital local channels look like crap. I _wish_ they would keep analog source feeds analog. The result is a blurry mess that pixelates and has analog interference/ghosting. The best, or should I say WORST of both worlds.


Plus we are not saving bandwidth. An analog version still exists 'in the clear' for those parasites without STBs.


Don't worry hook, I don't have an advantage. YOU have the advantage over me. I've hated the fake digital.


I can't wait until cable starts center cutting the HD channel for SDTV. At least then there will be a digital to analog conversion rather than the other way.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14691887
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can ch 7 be digital if it's analog? What you really want to say is why can't 407 be _mapped down_ to 7 on your TiVO. I presume the digitals map down on all the standard issue cable boxes, as it also does on my Dish Network DVR and I presume on the DirecTV IRD's too.
> 
> 
> Does 3, 5, 8 & 19 map down in digital on your TiVO? If so you have a letigimate beef with TW. All the locals should map down in digital equally.
> 
> 
> BTW: on my E* 622 I get 3 of every local station: SD via satellite, HD via satellite, and HD via OTA, al mapped down to the proper channel (sort-of) 003-00 is both the SD & HD satelite-delivered number, while 003-01 is the HD OTA. This came in handy the other day when WEWS had a problem with the audio feed on their HD feed. Both the satellite and OTA feed were silent, while the SD feed (analog digitized by E*) had audio.




First let's get one thing clear. This isn't a discussion about E* being better then cable or D*. I don't dispute that.


Now having said that I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about, but I will try to explain so you can get the whole picture.


Back when Adelphia was around they took their analog channels for the networks that were also in HD and upconverted them to digital. Therefore channels 3, 4, (19) 5, and 8 were all digital if you had a converter box.


You could also see these channels on then channel 803, 804 (19), 805, and 808 on analog.


If you were hooked into a wall and pushed channel 3, what you were looking at was actually 803. Boxes saw upconverted digital. Now we know this because we get dolby 2.0 signals from those channels. and pcm from the 800 channels.


At that time WBNX did not even have digital let alone HD so all they had was analog. When TW came around and eventually added WBNX HD they did not create a digital mirror for channel 7. That remained in analog.


Now we can't see those 800 channels any longer but we can still see that channels 3, 4 (19), 5 and 8 are digital because they show as dolby 2.0. Also the comparison of disk space to use to record an analog program is over twice as much as that of digital.


However in nickdawg land all of his channels are digital even though we are all in the same cable company. We know this because nickdawg sees dolby 2.0 on all the lower channels, including FX, USA, TRU TV, etc. So whatever he records on those channels uses less disk space then what I do. It also uses less bandwith which could be used for more HD channels.


Hope that explains it to you. And trust me when I moved in here in 2004 I called D* and I could not get it because of line of site with my trees. My next door neighbor however, who is about a football field away from me has a small opening. I know because I walked the D* guy over there.


----------



## Inundated

I'm confused, but...


The upshot is that:


A) 3, 5 and 8 at least send fiber feeds from the stations to the cable headend(s). The only true "analog" in this discussion is on the cable end if you don't have a box.


B) Most of the other stations are picked up over the air in analog. Some look OK, some look awful. None of those stations are getting downconverted by TWC - they're just passing along the analog signals as usual.


C) B above will go away after 2/17/09, because analog itself will go away. Likely, the other stations that don't have a fiber feed to the TWC headend(s) will be downconverted off digital OTA, and center cut as nickdawg suggests for the analog viewers.


D) The fiber feed stations won't change a thing after 2/17. They'll continue to pump a 4:3 SD signal, I presume, to TWC so they can downconvert it for analog viewers. They'll continue to pump the HD signal down the pipe so it can air in the 4xx range.


I could be wrong about any of this, but this is how I see it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14699951
> 
> 
> I'm confused, but...
> 
> 
> The upshot is that:
> 
> 
> A) 3, 5 and 8 at least send fiber feeds from the stations to the cable headend(s). The only true "analog" in this discussion is on the cable end if you don't have a box.
> 
> 
> B) Most of the other stations are picked up over the air in analog. Some look OK, some look awful. None of those stations are getting downconverted by TWC - they're just passing along the analog signals as usual.
> 
> 
> C) B above will go away after 2/17/09, because analog itself will go away. Likely, the other stations that don't have a fiber feed to the TWC headend(s) will be downconverted off digital OTA, and center cut as nickdawg suggests for the analog viewers.
> 
> 
> D) The fiber feed stations won't change a thing after 2/17. They'll continue to pump a 4:3 SD signal, I presume, to TWC so they can downconvert it for analog viewers. They'll continue to pump the HD signal down the pipe so it can air in the 4xx range.
> 
> 
> I could be wrong about any of this, but this is how I see it.



Well, I don't think you're correct about A. My understanding in our area that it is converted analog.


However everything else you said makes sense.


There was a big discussion about this a while back and I would like to think that we get the digital feed direct but if you compare the picture to the other digital channels, it's just not right.


However it could be like nickdawg has said; simply that anything below 15 or 20 is just crap no matter what.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14700047
> 
> 
> Well, I don't think you're correct about A. My understanding in our area that it is converted analog.
> 
> 
> However everything else you said makes sense.



I think I misstated B) up there.


Let me redo it:



> Quote:
> B) Most of the other stations are picked up over the air in analog. Some look OK, some look awful. None of those stations are getting downconverted by TWC - they're just passing along the analog signals as usual *on the channels that are not being converted to digital feeds by TWC*.



In other words, that'd probably only apply to 19, assuming they aren't sending fiber to TWC.


3/5/8 are SD fiber from TWC, digitized on digital cable boxes, sent in analog for those who don't have boxes.


----------



## nickdawg

After 2/17/09, ALL the local channels will be center cut downconvert from HD. SD feeds at the affiliate will no longer exist. The networks are killing the SD feeds, which is why the bugs are over from the corner, so they are still visible on 4:3.


If 3,5 and 8 are fiber feeds, they must be analog from the source. The 'digital' versions of these channels don't look that good. Although they are better than channels like WBNX and WNEO.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14700120
> 
> 
> After 2/17/09, ALL the local channels will be center cut downconvert from HD. SD feeds at the affiliate will no longer exist. The networks are killing the SD feeds, which is why the bugs are over from the corner, so they are still visible on 4:3.



Well, that's not entirely accurate, as some stations aren't sending out HD at all (i.e. WVPX/23, etc.).


But that's a good question...will the stations actually kill their existing SD fiber feeds? I imagine that happens if they kill them because they'll no longer be sending out the separate analog feed to the analog transmitter. But the cable systems will still be running 4:3 SD/analog channels.


I know the stations that don't have fiber feeds, the systems will have no choice but to take the OTA digital, and centercut the 16:9 feeds for analog downconversion. I just don't know the answer regarding the stations sending out the dedicated cable fiber feeds.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14700120
> 
> 
> If 3,5 and 8 are fiber feeds, they must be analog from the source. The 'digital' versions of these channels don't look that good. Although they are better than channels like WBNX and WNEO.



Well, I believe all three of those stations, 3/5/8, are running digital control rooms in HD now. So they aren't sending true "analog" source to the cable systems, per se, but are sending the SD output from their plant.


WBNX, WNEO/WEAO, etc., which don't send fiber down to TWC, TWC is taking those analog signals off air.


This is about as far as I'll go on this, because I'm probably wrong still on some of this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14700171
> 
> 
> Well, that's not entirely accurate, as some stations aren't sending out HD at all (i.e. WVPX/23, etc.).
> 
> 
> But that's a good question...will the stations actually kill their existing SD fiber feeds? I imagine that happens if they kill them because they'll no longer be sending out the separate analog feed to the analog transmitter. But the cable systems will still be running 4:3 SD/analog channels.
> 
> 
> I know the stations that don't have fiber feeds, the systems will have no choice but to take the OTA digital, and centercut the 16:9 feeds for analog downconversion. I just don't know the answer regarding the stations sending out the dedicated cable fiber feeds.



I meant that for stations already broadcasting in HD. I believe WVPX is supposed to flash cut to digital on the 2/17/09, but not HD. But the others like 3, 5 and 8 currently run two feeds: one HD and one SD. The HD goes over the digital channel and the SD over the analog channel. Once the analog OTA channel goes away, OTA viewers will be getting and downconverting for SD with the CECBs. Cable and satellite will downconvert for SD from the HD feeds. The networks have no reason to send down two feeds anymore. It's been reported that networks ordered falls shows to be 4:3 safe for downconversion. Cable fiber feeds will still be there, but most likely HD, which will be downconverted.



> Quote:
> Well, I believe all three of those stations, 3/5/8, are running digital control rooms in HD now. So they aren't sending true "analog" source to the cable systems, per se, but are sending the SD output from their plant.
> 
> 
> WBNX, WNEO/WEAO, etc., which don't send fiber down to TWC, TWC is taking those analog signals off air.
> 
> 
> This is about as far as I'll go on this, because I'm probably wrong still on some of this.



I think what's going on here, and I think hook said this, that TWC is downconverting for analog then upconverting for digital. I just look at WJW and there's no way that's real digital. The picture is washed out looking and colors are off. The PQ is about that of You Tube. Comparing a show like King of the Hill in SD between 8 amd 408, 408 looks better.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14700120
> 
> 
> If 3,5 and 8 are fiber feeds, they must be analog from the source. The 'digital' versions of these channels don't look that good. Although they are better than channels like WBNX and WNEO.



I agree with you I think it is analog at the source, however and it may very well be because I use TiVo WBNX actually looks better then the digital channels on my television then the upgraded digital (despite what Inundated says). This statement is made only for the stations under channel 20.



Peoples Court: Sharp, clear, good loud sound.


Judge Mathis: A little washed out and sound quality, even though it's Dolby 2.0 has less volume.


Now I compared the pictures when I had the opportunity to view 806, analog, and I will admit that in the case of WUAB I did not see much, if any picture difference. The volume however was louder.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14701361
> 
> 
> Now I compared the pictures when I had the opportunity to view 806, analog, and I will admit that in the case of WUAB I did not see much, if any picture difference. The volume however was louder.



I think you guys have basically figured it out on this whole thing.


I will note that - and I know others have said this - that TWC's digital vs. analog volume levels are awful.


I'm not at all surprised that analog 806 was louder. On my S2 TiVo, I have to turn up the digital channels' volume pretty significantly...then when I tune down to an analog channel, it blows me out of the room, and I'm diving for the remote to turn it down again.


OK, I just went back and forth on my analog tube set here between 7 and 8, and 7 is MUCH louder. And I have a digital cable box on this.


----------



## Inundated

My TiVo has just added new channel/listings for 23 as "EULOCA".


This is TWC's "Northeast Ohio Network" local programming channel, that used to be on 15 on the old Adelphia system...and has always been on 23 on the legacy Akron/Canton systems.


And for the first time ever, it actually has listings.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14702390
> 
> 
> I think you guys have basically figured it out on this whole thing.
> 
> 
> I will note that - and I know others have said this - that TWC's digital vs. analog volume levels are awful.
> 
> 
> I'm not at all surprised that analog 806 was louder. On my S2 TiVo, I have to turn up the digital channels' volume pretty significantly...then when I tune down to an analog channel, it blows me out of the room, and I'm diving for the remote to turn it down again.
> 
> 
> OK, I just went back and forth on my analog tube set here between 7 and 8, and 7 is MUCH louder. And I have a digital cable box on this.



Inundated, does your Tivo have an adjustment for audio dynamic range? If it does, this could help equalize the difference between digital and analog volume levels. Setting the dynamic range to "narrow" helps with this. Digital channels have more dynamic range, so the programmers tend to use that additional headroom by running the average level on the low side, so they can use that extra headroom for a big boom when they need it without hitting the ceiling. The narrow audio setting tends to compensate for this.


If the analog channels are turned down to match the digitals, this compromises the s/n and tends to increase hiss in the audio. It's an ongoing battle in the industry, and there's not a really good answer other than establishing a dialnorm value and sticking with that (something that happens at the programming source, not the headend).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14702540
> 
> 
> Inundated, does your Tivo have an adjustment for audio dynamic range? If it does, this could help equalize the difference between digital and analog volume levels. Setting the dynamic range to "narrow" helps with this.



Thanks for the explanation!


The only audio adjustment I can make on the TiVo S2 is changing the main audio program from stereo to mono, or to SAP. I just kicked it on mono, and we'll see if that helps. (This set is a pretty standard 20" tube set with only the speakers on the side, I don't really care if it's stereo.)


I think the cable box has some adjustments for audio, but I haven't really had any luck with that.


----------



## Ben Music

Breaking News for NEO TWC customers:


Got a letter in the mail today from TWC saying that SDV starts on

Monday 10/20/08. Tuning Adapters will be offered later this year.

It is currently believed that they will be offered at no charge.


Ben Music


----------



## Vchat20

Interesting. I wonder what channels they are going to put up initially on the SDV list?


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14703091
> 
> 
> Interesting. I wonder what channels they are going to put up initially on the SDV list?



Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will

be delivered using SDV. The letter states that they are

lesser viewed channels. The good thing about this is now

there will be more room for lots of new HD channels.


Ben Music


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14703070
> 
> 
> Breaking News for NEO TWC customers:
> 
> 
> Got a letter in the mail today from TWC saying that SDV starts on
> 
> Monday 10/20/08. Tuning Adapters will be offered later this year.
> 
> It is currently believed that they will be offered at no charge.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I have a cablecard in my TV, and I just talk to Time Warner and they told me that I would have to get a HD box to pick up the HD channels going to SDV.

Is the Tuning Adapter only for Tivo type devices or can I use it with my Cablecard TV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14703349
> 
> 
> I have a cablecard in my TV, and I just talk to Time Warner and they told me that I would have to get a HD box to pick up the HD channels going to SDV.
> 
> Is the Tuning Adapter only for Tivo type devices or can I use it with my Cablecard TV?



Depends on the hardware in your television. If it's capable of two way communication, then no you don't.


So how do you know? Simple. Can you get On Demand now? If so, you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14703180
> 
> 
> Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will
> 
> be delivered using SDV. The letter states that they are
> 
> lesser viewed channels. The good thing about this is now
> 
> there will be more room for lots of new HD channels.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Yes, that's suppose to be the point but the question is what channels and when will they arrive?


No letter for me.


And I think that Oct. 10 date has as much validity as their conversion date.


Also I live way East of you. Were you ex Adelphia or Comcast by any chance?


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14703528
> 
> 
> Depends on the hardware in your television. If it's capable of two way communication, then no you don't.
> 
> 
> So how do you know? Simple. Can you get On Demand now? If so, you have nothing to worry about.



Thanks for the info.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14703542
> 
> 
> Yes, that's suppose to be the point but the question is what channels and when will they arrive?
> 
> 
> No letter for me.
> 
> 
> And I think that Oct. 10 date has as much validity as their conversion date.
> 
> 
> Also I live way East of you. Were you ex Adelphia or Comcast by any chance?



Hook, I'm joining the 'dark side' with you on this one. Until I have a letter in my hands stating we're getting SDV, I'll take that claim with a grain of salt.


----------



## nickdawg

Days like today will actually make me miss analog OTA broadcast. Tonight WKYC made a real dick move and decided to dump 'Chuck' so we can watch the Indians get their asses handed to them by Detroit in primetime. Of course I look ahead in the guide. No Chuck later. I get two hours of paid program at 3AM, but no Chuck. Checked Titan TV and WKYC.com and the same listing---PAID F'ING PROGRAM.


Luckily the DTV transition hasn't occurred yet so I can still bring out the rabbit ears and watch (an extremely fuzzy) WFMJ on the old TV in my bedroom. It looks like I might be stuck buying new antenna and converter box next year. No way the signal I currently get would be strong enough to pick up a digital signal.


----------



## terryfoster

Wait, Chuck doesn't premiere until 9/29, right?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14703712
> 
> 
> Days like today will actually make me miss analog OTA broadcast. Tonight WKYC made a real dick move and decided to dump 'Chuck' so we can watch the Indians get their asses handed to them by Detroit in primetime......



I was at the game last night. If you are lucky another great bench clearing brawl will break out between them.










I'm thrilled to hear you guys are getting the SDV feeds, should be interesting (time schedule and technical bugs). HOPEFULLY the few WOW customers in here won't be too far behind in possibly getting SDV. Maybe when the Browns are in the Superbowl?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14703758
> 
> 
> Wait, Chuck doesn't premiere until 9/29, right?



It's not a new episode, just replays of last season. But I still want to see it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14703863
> 
> 
> I was at the game last night. If you are lucky another great bench clearing brawl will break out between them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thrilled to hear you guys are getting the SDV feeds, should be interesting (time schedule and technical bugs). HOPEFULLY the few WOW customers in here won't be too far behind in possibly getting SDV. Maybe when the Browns are in the Superbowl?



A brawl? Hmmm. I might have to keep the game on another TV just in case.










I'm surprised WOW doesn't already have SDV. That's what doesn't sit well with me about this TWC claim. TWC is a giant system. Going SDV is much harder for them than a smaller system like WOW.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14703958
> 
> 
> It's not a new episode, just replays of last season. But I still want to see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A brawl? Hmmm. I might have to keep the game on another TV just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised WOW doesn't already have SDV. That's what doesn't sit well with me about this TWC claim. TWC is a giant system. Going SDV is much harder for them than a smaller system like WOW.



Yeah, it was quite a night! Four players were ejected for the fight. Beautiful evening, free bobblehead night, come from behind win (3 run homer in 8th to tie, won in bottom of 9th), fireworks (after the game, not referring to the brawl), and a free ticket to boot!


But at $6.75 for a beer, you pay one way or another.










WOW may have SDV, I dunno. I've never seen any mention of it, combined with their lackluster lineup of available HD ch's, so I doubt it.


----------



## Speedskater

The fireworks would have been a lot better, if they had turned of all the advertising signs above the score-board! They also need a rule about pitcher changes at the start of an inning. The pitcher throws his warm-up pitches then the batter comes up to the plate and the change pitchers before the first pitch.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, I'm surprised. Rather than canning the end of Golf(like I thought they would) WKYC is dumping the Indians to STO. UN-FING BELIEVABLE!! This is the same channel that dumped the Olympics on the next-to-last day for a stupid browns pre season loss.


I swear. Sometimes these people can be so smart and do such great things(like HD syndicated shows) and other times they can be total idiots...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14703349
> 
> 
> I have a cablecard in my TV, and I just talk to Time Warner and they told me that I would have to get a HD box to pick up the HD channels going to SDV.
> 
> Is the Tuning Adapter only for Tivo type devices or can I use it with my Cablecard TV?



I believe the only CE unit that offers an external SDV tuner right now is Tivo. Samsung has been promising a "Tru-2-Way" TV set for awhile now, and I know they were testing one in a lab somewhere, but I have yet to see a two-way device in the wild.


Remember that it's the host device, _not_ the cablecard, that determines whether it's one-way or two-way. The cablecard itself only manages the crypto and conditional access logic. It has no RF processing inside. The TV set has to contain a return-path (upstream) transmitter to make it two-way, in the same sense that a cable modem has an upstream modulator.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14704469
> 
> 
> I believe the only CE unit that offers an external SDV tuner right now is Tivo. Samsung has been promising a "Tru-2-Way" TV set for awhile now, and I know they were testing one in a lab somewhere, but I have yet to see a two-way device in the wild.
> 
> 
> Remember that it's the host device, _not_ the cablecard, that determines whether it's one-way or two-way. The cablecard itself only manages the crypto and conditional access logic. It has no RF processing inside. The TV set has to contain a return-path (upstream) transmitter to make it two-way, in the same sense that a cable modem has an upstream modulator.



Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14703180
> 
> 
> Included with the letter is a list of about 80 ch's that will
> 
> be delivered using SDV.



Pardon my ignorance, but what's SDV, and what difference will it make to a viewer that these 80 channels will be delivered that way? BTW I have an SA8300HD box.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/14705138
> 
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, but what's SDV, and what difference will it make to a viewer that these 80 channels will be delivered that way? BTW I have an SA8300HD box.



SDV is "switched digital video". It's a way TWC and other cable companies can free up bandwidth by putting a number of (presumably not-as-popular) channels off the main feed.


If a channel is SDV, your cable box will request it when you tune to it, and it'll be sent down the system to you. Otherwise, it won't be taking up general bandwidth.


That means TWC can clear some "space" for other channels, and in theory, offer a lot more choices.


The way SDV works, you'd pretty much have to put less popular channels in SDV-land, as I presume there are only a certain number of "slots" they could go into at the viewer end.


In theory, any recent digital cable box can handle SDV. I know my SA8000HD, which is the earlier version of the box you have, can do it... I've gone into the menus and found support for SDV on the 8000. It probably got added in a firmware update at some point long ago.


I have no idea what the user experience is like tuning to an SDV-based channel, but I presume it wouldn't take much more (if any more) time than tuning to a regular digital cable channel now.


----------



## Inundated

BTW, here in Former Adelphia Land, no SDV letter yet. Is there any evidence they're doing this systemwide, or could it be only in the former Comcast areas?


Is anyone on the ex-Adelphia end of the system getting this letter? Or for that matter, in Akron or Canton?


----------



## Vchat20

Just curious to know if anyone knows if NEO is actively blocking firewire use on their boxes still? I just tried hooking up my 8300HDC today and it only brought up two unknown devices and neither a tuner or panel device as expected were found. Others have had this model work even with Navigator/Mystro so it's got to be a software restriction on the box in some shape or form.


As a result of this, I was planning to try swapping monday for an 8300HD or an earlier model HD box w/firewire if I could in hopes of finding one that would work. But if NEO's actively refusing firewire usage on these boxes, it'd be nice to know instead of constantly going through one after the other.


Or do you guys suppose I'd get better luck out of emailing Mr. Fry a polite note requesting the firewire access be enabled and that it is indeed an FCC regulation?


----------



## Tim Lones

Thanks for the tip on what SDV is. I was just going to ask.. BTW, The Indians did beat the Tigers 6-3, with Sowers actually pitching decently. The Tribe is at 77-77-.500 for the first time since May 18.


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of SDV, I did get two Navigator upgrades recently. My 8300HD downloaded an upgrade last week and the BD-V1000(Pioneer) in my bedroom downloaded an update this previous Tuesday. I don't see any obvious changes in the menus/graphics so I assume it must have been a OS update for SDV possibly? I didn't get any letter yet.


----------



## Inundated

I had to look into the service menus for my SA8000HD...did so about 2-3 weeks ago, and I saw the SDV screens. They weren't "active", it appears, though I don't know what they look like when they are...but the support was there. There were three SDV-related screens and a few other references on other screens.


A quick primer, basic, on SDV:


Right now, TWC sends down all the channels you see on the lineup card, at all times, 24/7.


When they make this switch, they'll take 80 channels out of that 24/7 broadcasting, and basically turn them into "Cable Channels On Demand".


So, if you want a network like Discovery Health or the Fox Soccer Channel, you'll still get it. But when you tune to it, your cable box will send a quick "send me this channel!" message, and it'll send back the channel. It won't be "sitting out there" on the cable wire waiting for you to find it...it'll be on request.


Major, well-watched channels like the local network affiliates, CNN, ESPN, USA and the like will not be moved to SDV...it would defeat the purpose.


Since the 80 channels won't be sent down the line full-time anymore, it opens up a lot of bandwidth to add new services, both on SDV and on the main cable line. It's hoped, of course, here, that a lot of 'em will be much requested HD channels...


----------



## nickdawg

This is what I have:

Switched Digital Broadcast


Authorized SDV NOT ENABLED

SDB Server Reg -

SDB Svc Group -

Registration Time -

SDB Server Port -

Total Tx-Rx -

LUA Rep Tx -

SelReq Tx -

SelConf Rx -

DSMCC SessID -

SDB Freq 801.000 MHz


Last CPP Error -


Also, I get 'SDV Not Enabled' on the Hardware screen.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14705965
> 
> 
> 
> Major, well-watched channels like the local network affiliates, CNN, ESPN, USA and the like will not be moved to SDV...it would defeat the purpose.



Interesting. I'm currently seeing channels in the 700s and 900s that are SDV(confirmed by diagnostics) including those.


787 A&E

788 DISC

789 HGTV

790 LIFE

791 TBS

792 USA

793 WE

796 ESPN

797 FSN

798 TNT

799 TWC

948 FAM

949 FX

950 FNC

951 HIST

952 MTV

953 NICK

954 TLC

955 SPIKE


Take channel 792 USA under 'Current Service Info':
Service ID 1525

Name USA SDV

Grid/Banner USA/Switch Digital Video

App URL

Type/Channel WTV (DVR SDB) / ch:792


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14706035
> 
> 
> Interesting. I'm currently seeing channels in the 700s and 900s that are SDV(confirmed by diagnostics) including those.



Interesting. Most of those channels are quite popular.


I'd be shocked if they were SDV only. It just makes no sense, considering what SDV is used for. It wouldn't seem to make sense to force switched versions down the line of channels that will have many viewers.


Maybe they'll become the digital dopplegangers of the analog versions? Right now, TWC only (at least here) sends those "digital cable" versions as a direct mirror of the analog side. Maybe these SDV versions will replace that mirroring, leaving the analogs still going as long as TWC offers expanded basic analog.


Though, this line of yours has me lost:



> Quote:
> Also, I get 'SDV Not Enabled' on the Hardware screen.



How can the channels you list be sent by SDV when it isn't happening yet?


----------



## nickdawg

I just updated with what I get on diagnostics with those 700s/900s channels. I'm not sure what it means. The OP said there was a list of 80 channels, that's nowhere near 80. A few of those could be SDV candidates(weather, WE, LIFE) but I don't think USA or ESPN would be, since there are limitations with how many can receive the stream for each channel.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14706043
> 
> 
> 
> How can the channels you list be sent by SDV when it isn't happening yet?



Nothing is being sent on those channels. They just have a blank screen with the message to 'CALL CABLE' and the phone number is listed. Basically, they are not turned on. They're disabled like unsubscribed premium channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14706051
> 
> 
> A few of those could be SDV candidates(weather, WE, LIFE) but I don't think USA or ESPN would be, since there are limitations with how many can receive the stream for each channel.



Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know much of the technical background behind SDV, but I get the idea that putting popular channels there wouldn't be a good idea due to those limitations. And those channels will continue to be sent in analog form for as long as TWC offers analog service.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14706057
> 
> 
> Nothing is being sent on those channels. They just have a blank screen with the message to 'CALL CABLE' and the phone number is listed. Basically, they are not turned on. They're disabled like unsubscribed premium channels.



Oh, they're your versions of the upper 800-series channels we had here until the realignment.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14706090
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't know much of the technical background behind SDV, but I get the idea that putting popular channels there wouldn't be a good idea due to those limitations. And those channels will continue to be sent in analog form for as long as TWC offers analog service.



I don't think it's so much a technical limitation (though I'm not 100% up on the technical side of the technology), but as you said earlier: It kind of cancels out the need for SDV when they are high-view channels being watched by at least one person 95%+ of the time. It makes much more sense for channels like the numerous shopping channels and some of the more obscure niche networks.


SDV ends up being like On Demand channels except for one major footnote: It still continues to broadcast just one stream that everyone tunes into simultaneously as the current non-SDV system does. So as long as at least one person is tuned to the channel, it's going out once and subsequent viewers can tune in almost immediately. But if no one is viewing it, the channel is dropped and bandwidth is returned.


Just figured I'd throw that tidbit out just-in-case. The term 'Cable On Demand' was mentioned and I didn't see anyone cover the single-stream aspect.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14706043
> 
> 
> Interesting. Most of those channels are quite popular.
> 
> 
> I'd be shocked if they were SDV only. It just makes no sense, considering what SDV is used for. It wouldn't seem to make sense to force switched versions down the line of channels that will have many viewers.
> 
> 
> Maybe they'll become the digital dopplegangers of the analog versions? Right now, TWC only (at least here) sends those "digital cable" versions as a direct mirror of the analog side. Maybe these SDV versions will replace that mirroring, leaving the analogs still going as long as TWC offers expanded basic analog.
> 
> 
> Though, this line of yours has me lost:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How can the channels you list be sent by SDV when it isn't happening yet?



If you look at the line up in Austin they have "Switched Basic Simulcast." Now I don't have any idea how that works but I have to assume that it means it works with SDV and non SDV. Why that is necessary, I don't know


*Switched Basic Simulcast Analogs

2 - KCWM (Hub AB)

5 / 6 - KENS (Hub AB @ 5 and Hubs U, AA, AC, AD @ 6)

6 - CITY (D1/CP)

6 - Local (Hub AB)

7 - Guide

10 - PACT1/Local

11 - PACT2

11 / 12 - KSAT (Hub U @ 11 and Hub AB @ 12)

13 - KAKW

14 - KADF

15 - ME-TV

16 - PACT3 (D1/CP)

17 - ACCESS (D2 Only)

18 / 380 - CSPAN (All but Hubs U, AA, AB, AC, AD)

18 - KPXL (Hub AB)

19 - ACC

20 / 255 - KLRU2

21 - WGN

22 - AISD (D1/CP)

98 - Photo (Hub U)

99 - Infor


Switched Standard Simulcast Analogs

24 / 270 - QVC

25 / 273 - HSN

28 / 213 - WE

29 / 297 - EWTN (Hub AB switched, all others regular digital)

38 / 170 - ION

44 / 355 - News 8 Doppler Radar

44 / 355 - Hill Country Radar (Hubs AB, AG)

64 / 555 - Tuner Classic Movies

70 / 590 - CMT

74 / 219 - Style

77 - TWC77*

Switched Digital

102 - Disney West RTE

111 - Boomerang

125 - Nick Toons

217 - Soap (Hub AB Only)

261 - LOGO

274 - TV Superstore

275 - Shop NBC

277 - Gems

278 / 616 - Shop Latino

279 - Celebrity Shopping

281 - Americas Auction Network

284 - Shop at Home

285 - Jewelry TV

295 - The Word Network

348 - News 8 Traffic

358 - News 8 Weather

359 / 609 - News 8 Weather Spanish

363 - Fox Business

408 - New 8 NonStop Sports

436 - ESPNU

527 - FoxReality


Switched Sports Pak

431 - Fox Sports Atlantic

432 - Fox Sports Central

433 - Fox Sports Pacific

434 - Fuel

435 - NBA TV

438 - CSTV

455 - Tennis Channel

460 - Speedvision

471 - Verses

490 - Outdoor Channel


Switched International

601 - CNN Espanol

602 - Canal 24

604 - DocuTVE

606 - CanalSur

609 / 359 - News 8 Weather Spanish

611 - Toon Disney Spanish

612 - Cartoon Spanish

613 - Boomerang Spanish

614 - Sorpresa

616 / 278 - Shop Latino

617 - Fox Sports SW Espanol

618 - ESPN Deportes

626 - TVE International

629 - La Familia

630 - SiTV

632 - Infinito

633 - HTV

634 - Video Rola

636 - MUN 2

637 - MTV Tres

640 - CineLatino

644 - Discovery Espanol

645 - HITN

649 - EWTN Spanish

695 - Deutche Welle TV (Hub AB only)


Switched HBOs

708 - HBO WEST

709 - HBOPLUS WEST

710 - HBOSIG WEST

711 - HBFAMILY WEST

712 - HBCOMEDY WEST

713 - HBOZONE WEST

714 - HBLATINO WEST


Switched Cinemax

723 - CINEMAX WEST

724 - MORMAX WEST

725 - ACTNMAX WEST

726 - THRILMAX WEST


Switched Encore

761 - Encore West


Switched ESPN GamePlan

901 - Sport PPV-1

902 - Sports PPV-2

903 - Sports PPV-3

904 - Sports PPV-4

905 - Sports PPV-5

906 - Sports PPV-6


Switched NBA/MLS

910 - NBA

911 - TEAM1

912 - TEAM2

913 - TEAM3

914 - TEAM4

915 - TEAM5

916 - TEAM6

917 - TEAM7

918 - TEAM8

919 - TEAM9

1649 - TEAM HD


Switched NHL/MLB

960 - Game 1

961 - Game 2

962 - Game 3

963 - Game 4

964 - Game 5

965 - Game 6

966 - Game 7

967 - Game 8

968 - Game 9

969 - Game 10

970 - Game 11

971 - Game 12

972 - Game 13

973 - Game 14

1648 - Game HD


Switched Playboy

940 - Playboy Enhanced


Switched Adult/PPV

941 - Ten

942 - TenBlox

943 - Ten Clips

952 - IND 2


Switched HD Digitals

1611 - HGTV HD

1612 - Food HD

1620 - National Geographic HD

247 / 1626 - History Channel HD

311 / 1630 - CNN HD

351 / 1633 - The Weather Channel HD

364 / 1634 - Fox Business HD

1639 - Fox Sports HD

471 / 1646 - VS / Golf HD

502 / 1653 - TBS HD

566 / 1658 - Lifetime Movie Network HD

241 / 1660 - A&E HD

572 / 1664 - Music HD


Switched Cinemax HD

1675 - Cinemax HD


Switched Movie Channel HD

1680 - The Movie Channel HD


Switched Starz HD

1684 - Starz HD


Now if you notice on that list none of the popular channels even appear so I don't think they will ever be SDV. Also notice that HBO HD and Showtime HD are not on the list.


Austin is a city that has complete SDV.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...ustin&page=101


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14703542
> 
> 
> Yes, that's suppose to be the point but the question is what channels and when will they arrive?
> 
> 
> No letter for me.
> 
> 
> And I think that Oct. 10 date has as much validity as their conversion date.
> 
> 
> Also I live way East of you. Were you ex Adelphia or Comcast by any chance?



Hi Hook,


Yes, I am ex Comcast. I'm sure you will get your letter sometime this week. Don't we have to get Navigator before we get SDV?


By the way, years ago I Iived on Samuel Lord Dr. in Bainbridge Township. Isn't that near you?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14706662
> 
> 
> Hi Hook,
> 
> 
> Yes, I am ex Comcast. I'm sure you will get your letter sometime this week. Don't we have to get Navigator before we get SDV?
> 
> 
> By the way, years ago I Iived on Samuel Lord Dr. in Bainbridge Township. Isn't that near you?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I live almost on the border of Aurora and Bainbridge, not too far from Geauga Lake.


I'm not certain you need Navigator, it would seem to me that all you need is two way communication. My understanding was that for a while at least people in former Comcast land with Moto boxes could not get On Demand. Now I haven't heard that complaint in quite a while so maybe that's resolved some how or perhaps all the moto boxes are changed.


According to nickdawg and others Navigator show SDV on their diagnostic screen.


I have heard many ex Comcast people complain about TW. It could be they are losing a lot of customers out that way. I wouldn't put it past Time Warner to send a letter out like that as a marketing ploy in hopes of not losing additional customers.


If they are going to introduce SDV soon and not give it to everyone at one time then it stands to reason that they would start with Navigator software.


I'll believe it when I see it and I'm not just talking about the letter. I'm talking about SDV.


And they darn well better have our tuning adapters ready for our TiVos. I probably won't need it for the channels they put on SDV unless they put their extra HD tier on there, which would make sense. I've been thinking about dumping that anyway.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14706513
> 
> 
> If you look at the line up in Austin they have "Switched Basic Simulcast." Now I don't have any idea how that works but I have to assume that it means it works with SDV and non SDV. Why that is necessary, I don't know.



This would seem to be what I was guessing, earlier...that they have switched digital versions of the analog channels for digital boxes. Maybe this gives TWC Austin flexibility down the road, and they'll dump some of the analog feeds for these particular channels (i.e. non-broadcast, because they can't do that on OTA channels because HAVE to offer them analog as long as they offer analog at all).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14706768
> 
> 
> According to nickdawg and others Navigator show SDV on their diagnostic screen.



Yeah, and just to clarify, I'm still on SARA, and the screen shows up under SARA. I don't know if my SA8000HD will ever get Navigator.


----------



## Ben Music

Hook,


You are right about On Demand. Mine has not worked for several years. The only reason I hold on to my Moto Series 3 box is that it never skips a beat otherwise. No missed recordings, no resets, or any other problems. I'm just going to wait till till 10/20 to see if SDV

is going to work. If not, I'll have to trade it in for a SA box.


I keep hoping they will purchase some of the new model SA boxes so that I can have the latest updated hardware. That may be just wishfull thinking on my part. I get the impression from the TWC letter that the tuning adapters wont be available on 10/20, but will

be ready before the end of the year, or sooner.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14706892
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> You are right about On Demand. Mine has not worked for several years. The only reason I hold on to my Moto Series 3 box is that it never skips a beat otherwise. No missed recordings, no resets, or any other problems. I'm just going to wait till till 10/20 to see if SDV
> 
> is going to work. If not, I'll have to trade it in for a SA box.
> 
> 
> I keep hoping they will purchase some of the new model SA boxes so that I can have the latest updated hardware. That may be just wishfull thinking on my part. I get the impression from the TWC letter that the tuning adapters wont be available on 10/20, but will
> 
> be ready before the end of the year, or sooner.
> 
> 
> Ben Music




I think this is the one TW is now offerring. Not a heck of alot of info about it.


They also have a link for the 8300 HD HCD DVR MULTI ROOM but when you click on the link it takes you to the non HD instructions and says it cannot play HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14705637
> 
> 
> Or do you guys suppose I'd get better luck out of emailing Mr. Fry a polite note requesting the firewire access be enabled and that it is indeed an FCC regulation?



Firewire requires 5C copy protection compliance by law. Is the device that you're connecting it to compliant?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14708293
> 
> 
> Firewire requires 5C copy prtection compliance by law. Is the device that you're connecting it to compliant?



I'm hooking it up to my XP machine which, while it's not 5C compliant, should still at least show up with the relevant tuner hardware. It does not, which clearly shows a limitation instituted on the box itself by TW.


Ref: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695


----------



## paule123

Anybody else getting WOIO Browns/Ravens in HD? Getting 4:3 SD picture here over D*.


Edit: There we go, HD now.


----------



## HD MM

I thought all the NFL games were supposed to be in HD this year? WTF CBS, flip the switch!


Watching the Browns on D*, on channel 19-1 (CBS).


*EDIT- Nevermind. It's in HD now. Slow reaction at WOIO apparently.


----------



## Argee

Channel 19 does not deserve to be an outlet for a major network. They constantly screw things up. They should go to the CW and let channel 55 have the CBS feed.


----------



## Inundated

I predicted this at the start of the season...the 19 tech folks aren't used to all the games being in HD this year, so they're slow at the switch...


----------



## nickdawg

If you currently have SARA, SDV will work. SDV actually works with all three firmware systems(although Passport would require an update). But TWC dumped Passport in favor of Navigator. My guess for the reason behind this decision is the old Pioneer boxes are not compatible with SARA. Even though Pioneer(now Aptiv Digital)Passport is compatible with all SA boxes, I get the feeling that SARA is not backwards-compatible with the Pioneer boxes. Rather than just trashing the Pioneer boxes(which I would gladly assist TWC in the process of, get me the chains, hook!







) they decided to keep them and use the crappy software.


As for the SA boxes, you definitely want a slightly older, more familiar SA8300HD. Getting a 'new' box now would mean getting a SA8300HD*C*, and those are crap. I don't know what exactly it is about those boxes, but they are buggy and take forever to boot. It's just a poorly produced piece of crap in response to a bull $hit government regulation requiring 'open cable' that forces cable company equipment to use cable cards too. What the hell is this dumb government going to do next? Force cable companies to use those 'tuning resolvers' as well?










Also, does anyone know if the 'tuning resolvers' will be provided by TWC or will Tivo users have to buy them? I really hope the second part is true. I'd hate to see TWC just _give_ those things away. Let the tivo customers buy them or have to pay a monthly fee for them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14708825
> 
> 
> As for the SA boxes, you definitely want a slightly older, more familiar SA8300HD. Getting a 'new' box now would mean getting a SA8300HD*C*, and those are crap. I don't know what exactly it is about those boxes, but they are buggy and take forever to boot. It's just a poorly produced piece of crap in response to a bull $hit government regulation requiring 'open cable' that forces cable company equipment to use cable cards too. What the hell is this dumb government going to do next? Force cable companies to use those 'tuning resolvers' as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone know if the 'tuning resolvers' will be provided by TWC or will Tivo users have to buy them? I really hope the second part is true. I'd hate to see TWC just _give_ those things away. Let the tivo customers buy them or have to pay a monthly fee for them.



First let's address the hardware issue. Now from my understanding about the SA 8300 it was poorly designed in regards to the hardware. I myself do not know a thing about it but I have read many, many post from people who have and they have really talked badly about the hardware.


However this is the internet and nobody ever talks about anything positive. That includes TiVo.










Now from what I've heard about the SA 8300HDC everyone pretty much agrees with you that it's a pos.


Now here is what I don't understand.


When the SA 8000 was designed I don't think that Cisco had bought the company. And I believe the SA 8300 was put into production during the Cisco purchase. It was, I believed, only a matter of time since Cisco was a company with a great reputation in internet applications that they would produce a good DVR.


Apparently being great on the internet does not translate do being great in DVR manufacturing.


Now as far as the Tuning Resolver, basically that is for TiVo people. It is designed so that TiVo can have two way communication. It was a joint effort between CableLabs, TiVo, and the Major Cable Companies and I think Motorola and SA.


They are going to be provided at *NO COST* which is almost unbelievable to people who own TiVos. This I believe was forced on them as a condition by either the FCC or CableLabs as it would not be fair for TiVo owners to have to buy additional equipment.


Ben Music I know you own a TiVo. Why even bother with those pos SA products? I suppose if you want on demand or purchase movies but I wouldn't ever let one in my house again.


And what about that multi room thing that SA offers? I'm sure TW will be offering that real soon!










Heck they can't get a single room to work right, how in the heck can they make a multi room one?


nickdawg use rope, it's cheaper then chain.


----------



## nickdawg

THEY'RE PROVIDING THEM FOR FREE!!! WTF!! Does this mean _I_ might be paying for it through my monthly bill? NOOOOOOOOO! I'm aiding and abetting Tvio!!










Damn FCC. Next thing you know they will make cable STBs use the tuning resolvers as well. Hey FCC, get back to issuing outrageous fines for a millisecond of boobie on TV.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14708310
> 
> 
> I'm hooking it up to my XP machine which, while it's not 5C compliant, should still at least show up with the relevant tuner hardware. It does not, which clearly shows a limitation instituted on the box itself by TW.
> 
> 
> Ref: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695



Thanks. This is on an 8300HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14708994
> 
> 
> Damn FCC. Next thing you know they will make cable STBs use the tuning resolvers as well. Hey FCC, get back to issuing outrageous fines for a millisecond of boobie on TV.



First you have to realize that when TiVo was designed SDV was not in the picture. It was only after it went into production that SDV was introduced, or at least the idea of it. What about people who had HD televisions that were HD capable? The cable companies and cablelabs just came up with this screwed up idea of cable cards and you've seen what's happened. So don't blame TiVo or the FCC. Blame CableLabs.


You know the FCC fined Time Warner in Hawaii for using SDV. I don't know to what extent they use it but apparently it was to such an extent that the FCC found it warranted a fine for depriving to many other people of available stations.


So I suppose that would include HD televisions that are not two way capable.


Now the fine was 75,000.00, which to TW is a slap on the wrist but they were told that if changes wern't made additional action would be taken.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14708997
> 
> 
> Thanks. This is on an 8300HD?



It's actually the 8300HDC I have here which, as mentioned by hookbill and nickdawg already and I can attest to as well, is a large pile of junk and slow to do anything.


If you check my latest post in that thread, the 8300HDC is only turning up 2 'unknown' devices whereas I SHOULD be seeing an AV/C Tuner and AV/C Panel device, both crucial in pulling video off the box over firewire. Even a few other posters there in other regions have gotten the HDC w/Navigator/Mystro to work.


I've got it in my head to just go swap in for an 8300HD and hope it works instead, but if NEO's doing this region-wide for all of their Navigator boxes, then the point is moot and I'd have swapped for nothing.


I was hoping someone here had already run through this and could at least say 'yeah, this setup works for me' or something similar so I could decide which route to take. It's either swap the box and hope it works or send a polite note to Mr. Fry and try to get the firewire working on the HDC here.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14709093
> 
> 
> First you have to realize that when TiVo was designed SDV was not in the picture. It was only after it went into production that SDV was introduced, or at least the idea of it.
> 
> ...snip...



Sorry to burst your bubble, but the HD Tivo-Which is the only Tivo to support cablecard and thus is the only one even capable of working with SDV in the first place-was designed and built at the very least when the idea of SDV and crucial two-way functionality was all being written up as standards back at Cablelabs.


Clearly put, Tivo put themselves in this position by not spending the extra 50c per box to include two-way capable tuners that would not only add the possibility of giving their customers access to the cableco's on demand offerings, but this whole SDV mess would require nothing more than a small software update on Tivo's end to enable full SDV support.


The same goes for the current generation of HD/Cablecard ready HTPC's. The tuner manufacturers have their heads up their asses and never bothered to include an upstream modulator in their tuners so now these HTPC owners have to hook up yet another box to view SDV channels and not to mention they have to HOPE Microsoft or whoever's writing the media center software in question will bother adding in support for the tuning resolvers. At least if the tuner's were two-way capable originally, all the SDV tuning functionality could be written right to the cablecard and be done with it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14709447
> 
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but the HD Tivo-Which is the only Tivo to support cablecard and thus is the only one even capable of working with SDV in the first place-was designed and built at the very least when the idea of SDV and crucial two-way functionality was all being written up as standards back at Cablelabs.
> 
> 
> Clearly put, Tivo put themselves in this position by not spending the extra 50c per box to include two-way capable tuners that would not only add the possibility of giving their customers access to the cableco's on demand offerings, but this whole SDV mess would require nothing more than a small software update on Tivo's end to enable full SDV support.



You're not busting my bubble, and you don't understand what I was saying.


I was talking about the S3, not the TiVo HD. When the S3 was designed the idea of two way cable card was not in the picture at that time. Now I don't know where you get your information from but the hardware was designed to work with cable cards, not two way communication. When the S3 was designed there SDV was not part of the process. It was simply made to decode digital television and HD, which it does quite well.


Then the cable companies and cablelabs came ups with SDV and *they put themselves* in a position where they had to come up with a resolution for everyone who did invest in other technology. As I said before it was a joint effort that created the Tuner Resolver.


Even at the time of the development of TiVo HD that the Tuner Resolver was going to be developed. And to try and design hardware for two way communication for all the different cable companies out there, as you very well know is just about impossible. That is why the SA 8300 HCD is such a mess.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14709093
> 
> 
> First you have to realize that when TiVo was designed SDV was not in the picture. It was only after it went into production that SDV was introduced, or at least the idea of it. What about people who had HD televisions that were HD capable? The cable companies and cablelabs just came up with this screwed up idea of cable cards and you've seen what's happened. So don't blame TiVo or the FCC. Blame CableLabs.
> 
> 
> You know the FCC fined Time Warner in Hawaii for using SDV. I don't know to what extent they use it but apparently it was to such an extent that the FCC found it warranted a fine for depriving to many other people of available stations.
> 
> 
> So I suppose that would include HD televisions that are not two way capable.
> 
> 
> Now the fine was 75,000.00, which to TW is a slap on the wrist but they were told that if changes wern't made additional action would be taken.



They fined TWC FOR using SDV? WTF? Shame on the FCC for punishing a cable company for using modern technology. No surprise TWC is slow on adding SDV.










But you already know how I feel about third party equipment. TWC should not have to spend money to adapt _their_ network to someone else's third party equipment, especially unnecessary equipment. And it especially should NOT be done at the expense of other customers. My bill better not be going up because TWC has to fix problems with Tivo. If tivo is so grat, why don't _they_ fix their customer's boxes? Why not let tivo customers trade in outdated boxes for new ones? Oh wait, that's TWC that does that, since you don't have to OWN the equipment!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14709834
> 
> 
> They fined TWC FOR using SDV? WTF? Shame on the FCC for punishing a cable company for using modern technology. No surprise TWC is slow on adding SDV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you already know how I feel about third party equipment. TWC should not have to spend money to adapt _their_ network to someone else's third party equipment, especially unnecessary equipment. And it especially should NOT be done at the expense of other customers. My bill better not be going up because TWC has to fix problems with Tivo. If tivo is so grat, why don't _they_ fix their customer's boxes? Why not let tivo customers trade in outdated boxes for new ones? Oh wait, that's TWC that does that, since you don't have to OWN the equipment!



You've got to be kidding me! Let me explain something to you. Time Warner does not have an exclusive right to shove their pos crap down peoples throat and say if you don't like it too bad. People have a right to buy equipment that they want, and it's TW's responsibility to make sure that it works with that equipment.


In your world you just want to take all the crap that TW gives and say that works fine. Well, it doesn't work fine. There are people with cable ready HD televisions who can't use them for all the services TW offers unless they buy TW equipment. That is why the FCC fined TW for excessively using SDV.


Further and let me get this through your thick head one more time, either The S3 or the TiVo HD can run circles around that piece of crap TW offers. So I don't want to drive their Yugo, I want my BMW. You settle for whatever you like and one more thing, SDV is not working as successfully as they had hoped because of the lousy cable card technology that cablelabs came up with.


My S3 is not outdated, it simply wasn't designed for two way communciation. But now that we have the Tuner Resolver, that point is mute. And again let me remind you that was something that TiVo, the cable companies, cablelabs and manufacturers all worked on together, a rather remakable accomplishment imho.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14709783
> 
> 
> I was talking about the S3, not the TiVo HD. When the S3 was designed the idea of two way cable card was not in the picture at that time.



That's mostly because of Tivo. The specs for two-way communications have been published since day one of CableCard technology. Every single CableCard ever made has been capable of communicating in two-way mode with an appropriately equipped host. It's the manufacturers of the sets and DVRs that have been late to come to the party.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Any news on how many cavs games will be in HD on FSN?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14710317
> 
> 
> That's mostly because of Tivo. The specs for two-way communications have been published since day one of CableCard technology. Every single CableCard evcer made has been capable of communicating in two-way mode with an appropriately equipped host. *It's the manufacturers of the sets and DVRs that have been late to come to the party*.



It's awful hard to come to the party when you don't know what exactly to wear. The fact the the specs for two way communication existed did not mean that a decision to go with SDV had arrived. That decison was made after the sets and TiVo were already designed and in production.


But let's just say you're statement is correct. Even then the law says that cable manufacturers have to provide a way for other DVR and Televsion equipment to be able to access their content. That is why Hawaii got the fine, they didn't obey the law.


And as has already been shown the problems with these two way designed cable card machines have been tremendous. Which is why everyone is hopefull that Tru2Way Communication will work. Maybe.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14710422
> 
> 
> It's awful hard to come to the party when you don't know what exactly to wear. The fact the the specs for two way communication existed did not mean that a decision to go with SDV had arrived. That decison was made after the sets and TiVo were already designed and in production.



But it's much easier to include a generic two-way tuner that complies with Cablelabs' cablecard spec and then simply push software updates for on demand, sdv, and other two-way services down the road.


Granted, this leaves any device but Tivo's in the dark, but you SHOULD get my point if it wasn't clear enough before.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14710417
> 
> 
> Any news on how many cavs games will be in HD on FSN?



Hopefully more than last year. The non HD games were pretty much unwatchable, because of the sh**** SD quality and what seems to be over compression on TW.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm really not opposed to Tivo. I just think that if they are going to charge as much as they do for it, the box should at least be capable of doing something simple that the SA boxes can do without an extra attachment.


As for those cable ready HD sets, I'm opposed to that. Why should cable companies be forced to spend extra money making their system work with other people's generic, third party equipment? If they want to use ALL of TWC's services, LET THEM GET A BOX!!! Is it really that hard? If I were to call D* or E* and tell them I only want one box and the other TVs in my house for NO CHARGE, they'd hang up! Or if I tell D* or E* I don't want to pay for ANY of their hardware. I want D* to make THEIR system to work around MY equipment, plus I want digital channels in the clear without a STB, they'd laugh and hang up. Cable already gives their viewers way too many options. There should be three: *Get a cable box, Get a TIVO, or go to hell.* There is no reason why cableco should be punished with for using SDV or SDV usage should be limited for freeloaders with 'cable ready HDTVs'. 'Cable ready' is a load of s---. I remember the same thing in the 90s. I remember my parents making a point of mentioning the new TV bought in 1991 was 'cable ready'. That didn't last long. TWC began requiring boxes for most channels and premiums back then and it's only continued with digital. And I feel exactly the same about that in the clear nonsense. I wonder how many channels that _could_ be SDV won't be because they have to stay (in a squeaky voice) "IN THE CLEAR"?


Cable give way too many choices. Remember, get a BOX, get a TIVO or SHUT UP!


----------



## Vchat20

Agreed. It's really retarded when Comcast, Time Warner, etal are in direct competition with the likes of Verison, AT&T, DirecTV, and Dish yet all those guys are given a free ride to run their network how they want because their customers MUST use a box provided by them. Yet CableCo's are kicked around by the FCC and must leave options open for customers that doesn't include their own set-tops which severely cuts down on improvements and upgrades they can make before the FCC steps in and gives a headshake and a fine.


I'll play devils advocate here and say the whole aspect of a cable system has been rife with confusion and mess from day one and not one side is really 100% to blame. But I think it's about time something is done to correct that. I await to see TW or Comcast either go full FTTH or Ethernet-over-coax and do full IP networks including VoIP over SIP and IPTV, both lending to customer owned and operated equipment that should never really have a problem with any upgrades or enhancements the cableco decides to make in the future.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14709783
> 
> 
> I was talking about the S3, not the TiVo HD. When the S3 was designed the idea of two way cable card was not in the picture at that time. Now I don't know where you get your information from but the hardware was designed to work with cable cards, not two way communication. When the S3 was designed there SDV was not part of the process. It was simply made to decode digital television and HD, which it does quite well.



SDV may not have been in the picture at design time, but it certainly was right about it's release time which I'm sure caused more than a few people to think twice about picking one up.


----------



## mnowlin

From what I read about the Hawaii fines, it's not just the fact that TW started using SDV. The biggest complaint was that TW flipped the SDV switch on a large number of channels _without any prior notice or explanation to their customers_. When people found that many channels they were used to receiving were no longer there, they were told they needed to rent a box... That's what pissed off the FCC...


----------



## nickdawg

Thanks, FCC. Punish TWC for moving channels to the modern broadcast system










Part of the reason why cable is so behind satellite and the new fiber services is they are held to a different standard. Cable has to follow all these BS regulations nobody else has to. Uverse and D* don't have to worry about third party equipment compatibility. They also don't have to worry about keeping any 'must carry' local channels in the clear on analog, which makes analog nonexistent for them. Not having analog TV frees up loads of bandwidth for more HD, better digital and high speed internet. That makes companies like the former Adelphia not give a crap about making updates(hence no digital simulcast for under 100, less HD). They're almost discouraged from making improvements because they have to constantly "protect the freeloader without a STB". Even the deserving Tivo people suffer as a result of cable's outdated technology.


The FCC and cable need to cut the apron strings. I'll repeat my new mantra once more. Get a box, get a Tivo or shut up! It's about time cable leaves all this "must carry", "in the clear" and "TV without a tuning device(STB or Tivo)" behind and embrace the new digital technology of the future.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14710952
> 
> 
> SDV may not have been in the picture at design time, but it certainly was right about it's release time which I'm sure caused more than a few people to think twice about picking one up.



I knew about it. Matter of fact I think you told me about it.










I did take it into consideration, and I also took TiVo itself into consideration. TiVo is not one to leave their customers in the dark and I trusted that.


I didn't figure it would work out the way it did, I thought TiVo alone would come up with something.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14710583
> 
> 
> Agreed. It's really retarded when Comcast, Time Warner, etal are in direct competition with the likes of Verison, AT&T, DirecTV, and Dish yet all those guys are given a free ride to run their network how they want because their customers MUST use a box provided by them. Yet CableCo's are kicked around by the FCC and must leave options open for customers that doesn't include their own set-tops which severely cuts down on improvements and upgrades they can make before the FCC steps in and gives a headshake and a fine.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14710583
> 
> 
> Satellite service has always required a box since day 1. VIOS and AT&T don't use SDV.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14710583
> 
> 
> I'll play devils advocate here and say the whole aspect of a cable system has been rife with confusion and mess from day one and not one side is really 100% to blame. But I think it's about time something is done to correct that. I await to see TW or Comcast either go full FTTH or Ethernet-over-coax and do full IP networks including VoIP over SIP and IPTV, both lending to customer owned and operated equipment that should never really have a problem with any upgrades or enhancements the cableco decides to make in the future.



It really has to do with the consumer having choices and not being forced to have only the service the cable company offers. You mention VoIP. I use Vonage. I would never want to use TW's, it cost more money and offers less service.


And I think when and if Tru2Way comes around that will resolve many of these issues.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14711156
> 
> 
> Thanks, FCC. Punish TWC for moving channels to the modern broadcast system



I agree. Thank you FCC. The fine should have been much higher.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14711156
> 
> 
> Part of the reason why cable is so behind satellite and the new fiber services is they are held to a different standard. Cable has to follow all these BS regulations nobody else has to. Uverse and D* don't have to worry about third party equipment compatibility. They also don't have to worry about keeping any 'must carry' local channels in the clear on analog, which makes analog nonexistent for them. Not having analog TV frees up loads of bandwidth for more HD, better digital and high speed internet.



The problem here is that you are forced to use only the cable companies equipment. Other companies who want to develop DVR's should be allowed to develop them for competition.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14711156
> 
> 
> The FCC and cable need to cut the apron strings. I'll repeat my new mantra once more. Get a box, get a Tivo or shut up! It's about time cable leaves all this "must carry", "in the clear" and "TV without a tuning device(STB or Tivo)" behind and embrace the new digital technology of the future.



Here you and I agree, analog has to go. But what you are saying is "piss on the poor people." I'm saying TW ought to give the digital set top boxes out and quit being so tight with their money. If they did that there wouldn't be a need for analog.


I also would like to see other companies offer DVR's besides TiVo. Competition is good.


----------



## hookbill

I just read this over on the TiVo thread:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gwsat* /forum/post/14712135
> 
> 
> Speaking of multiple DVRs and the awful 8300, I have an 8300 in my great room, which I use as a backup to my S3. Lately I have been recording a lot of football and golf on the 8300 and have had my recollection refreshed as to why I hate the SARA software. I won't go into detail here but things that are easy with the TiVo software, such as the 30 second skip ahead feature and the ability to add more time to a recording that is ongoing, are impossible with the SARA software. To add insult to injury, when I checked out the recording I had made of the Saturday Ryder cup matches, I discovered that the first 2 hours had failed to record. The 8300 and SARA software truly, truly suck.




This is why I dumped the SA 8300, with SARA.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14712104
> 
> 
> It really has to do with the consumer having choices and not being forced to have only the service the cable company offers. You mention VoIP. I use Vonage. I would never want to use TW's, it cost more money and offers less service.



You really missed my point completely on that. Right now TW's phone service has the major advantage of not going out over the internet and having to deal with possible congestion along the way. For me that is one reason I will never deal with 3rd part VoIP service unless I had a secondary 100% dedicated connection for it.


My point was that TW's service currently locks you into using their modem to use their phone service. While they could go all SIP and allow customer owned MTA's, their current choice of equipment that integrates into the Docsis platform does not make this easy. If they ever went all IP in the future, it would blow this whole thing wide open as they'd no longer have to rely on the limited operator-owned selection of Docsis equipment and have more off-the-shelf equipment to choose from. Same with IPTV in the near future. You'll soon see all the major audio/video manufacturers building IPTV boxes for the platform as it becomes more widely accepted and deployed and the customer would have THEIR choice, not the cableco's choice. And HSI would be tons easier. Just like FiOS is now, you'd have a simple 100Bt termination at the NID to go straight to your router (or switch if IPv6 ever gets going).


----------



## Smarty-pants

I know this is OT, but hope to get a little help.

I'm in the process of buying a new house, and want to streamline my incoming sevices for phone and internet.


I currently have SBC DSL Pro for $30 month. I don't really download a lot of stuff, so speed isn't a huge concern there. I do want a fast internet connection though. Thinking of getting Road Runner or Road Runner Lite? Thoughts?


I also have an SBC landline. I think it is outrageous to pay $30+ every month just for LOCAL service which is all I need. I've tried to talk the wife into dropping it, and just useing our cells, but she doesn't like that idea. Would Vonage be a good (cheap) solution?


Thanks for any help.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14712183
> 
> 
> I just read this over on the TiVo thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by gwsat
> 
> Speaking of multiple DVRs and the awful 8300, I have an 8300 in my great room, which I use as a backup to my S3. Lately I have been recording a lot of football and golf on the 8300 and have had my recollection refreshed as to why I hate the SARA software. I won't go into detail here but things that are easy with the TiVo software, such as the 30 second skip ahead feature and the ability to add more time to a recording that is ongoing, are impossible with the SARA software. To add insult to injury, when I checked out the recording I had made of the Saturday Ryder cup matches, I discovered that the first 2 hours had failed to record. The 8300 and SARA software truly, truly suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I dumped the SA 8300, with SARA.
Click to expand...


There must be differences in SARA functionality offered by the cable companies. (Maybe the 8300HDC offers more functionality.) Not sure exactly what gwsat meant by "ongoing recording" but I have extended a recording that is in-progress, as well as adjusted "first-run only" recordings to start early and end late so I don't miss any of the show.


That being said, the 30-second skip button would be great. Also, searching for a show by name is painful.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14714183
> 
> 
> I know this is OT, but hope to get a little help.
> 
> I'm in the process of buying a new house, and want to streamline my incoming sevices for phone and internet.
> 
> 
> I currently have SBC DSL Pro for $30 month. I don't really download a lot of stuff, so speed isn't a huge concern there. I do want a fast internet connection though. Thinking of getting Road Runner or Road Runner Lite? Thoughts?
> 
> 
> I also have an SBC landline. I think it is outrageous to pay $30+ every month just for LOCAL service which is all I need. I've tried to talk the wife into dropping it, and just useing our cells, but she doesn't like that idea. Would Vonage be a good (cheap) solution?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help.



Wow, I have SBC DSL for $19.99 a month. I'd never get TWC. In having SBC for about two years now, I've only had it 'go down' once or twice. In that same time, I've had TWC go out many times. No way I'd trust their "advanced fiber network"





















for my computer or phone as well.


KEEP THE LANDLINE!! Trust me. In this case, the old technology that has been around for over 100 years is better. In a power outage or when then internet goes down, that vonage crap won't work. Cell phone batteries only last so long as well, especially if you're using it alot. With that blackout five years ago and these snow events in the winter, I wouldn't trust it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> KEEP THE LANDLINE!! Trust me. In this case, the old technology that has been around for over 100 years is better. In a power outage or when then internet goes down, that vonage crap won't work. Cell phone batteries only last so long as well, especially if you're using it alot. With that blackout five years ago and these snow events in the winter, I wouldn't trust it.



AMEN Brother!


About 14years ago we were hit with a "microburst" in Euclid. A microburst is like a tornado but the damage is spread out, not a narrow path of destruction. Long story short the electricity was out for 4 days. Guess what contiunued to work the entire time? Landlines forever, VOIP never. VOIP is like those old console TV/stereo combos that were popular in the 60's. WHen the TV died the remaining functions (radio and phono) would still work but due to the broken TV out goes the whole package.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14714183
> 
> 
> I know this is OT, but hope to get a little help.
> 
> I'm in the process of buying a new house, and want to streamline my incoming sevices for phone and internet.
> 
> 
> I currently have SBC DSL Pro for $30 month. I don't really download a lot of stuff, so speed isn't a huge concern there. I do want a fast internet connection though. Thinking of getting Road Runner or Road Runner Lite? Thoughts?
> 
> 
> I also have an SBC landline. I think it is outrageous to pay $30+ every month just for LOCAL service which is all I need. I've tried to talk the wife into dropping it, and just useing our cells, but she doesn't like that idea. Would Vonage be a good (cheap) solution?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help.



I can understand peoples concern to have a fall back to a landline even though I don't have one myself.







VOIP & cell are sufficient for me. I'll take my chances on the very rare, region wide power outages. And even then there will be many "....sorry, all circuits are busy...." messages during such events.


For $30 mo you must have some additional features on your line. I pay under $26 (taxes incl) for an SBC/ATT/Ameritech landline in Lyndhurst (offsite office worker). If I back out the charges for unpublished number and unlimited residential local it would be around $15 (taxes incl).


Bare with me.....I say this cuz I have the ultimate cheapskates home phone solution.










Get the bare minimum basic land line for $15 mo (if you really feel the need and to comfort the wife) for emergencies. Then get the MagicJack VOIP thingy for all of your calling needs, includes unlimited local and LD. $40 to buy it including first year service, $20 a year after that.


I use the MagicJack when traveling (which I do often) and it has worked flawlessly! Obviously this requires you have high speed internet and a computer up & running 24/7, but the power consumption of a 24/7 computer would be tiny compared to the additional $15 mo you would be saving plus any LD charges you may be paying currently.


If MajicJack goes belly-up, get unlimited local calling back on your landline.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14716023
> 
> 
> AMEN Brother!
> 
> 
> About 14years ago we were hit with a "microburst" in Euclid. A microburst is like a tornado but the damage is spread out, not a narrow path of destruction. Long story short the electricity was out for 4 days. Guess what contiunued to work the entire time? Landlines forever, VOIP never. VOIP is like those old console TV/stereo combos that were popular in the 60's. WHen the TV died the remaining functions (radio and phono) would still work but due to the broken TV out goes the whole package.



VoIP works just fine, and landlines will become obsolete. First, they arn't even necessary for alarm systems anymore. My alarm system uses a wireless network. You don't need them for satellite, DVR, and it's really expensive.


14 years ago? You gotta be kidding me. You want to compare what's out there now to 14 years ago.










Vonage has never let me down. If there is a power outage, or internet outage it transfers to my wireless phone. Internet outages are very rare and I have a natural gas powered generator. So my power never really goes out


I'm prepared.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14713908
> 
> 
> You really missed my point completely on that. Right now TW's phone service has the major advantage of not going out over the internet and having to deal with possible congestion along the way. For me that is one reason I will never deal with 3rd part VoIP service unless I had a secondary 100% dedicated connection for it.
> 
> 
> My point was that TW's service currently locks you into using their modem to use their phone service. While they could go all SIP and allow customer owned MTA's, their current choice of equipment that integrates into the Docsis platform does not make this easy. If they ever went all IP in the future, it would blow this whole thing wide open as they'd no longer have to rely on the limited operator-owned selection of Docsis equipment and have more off-the-shelf equipment to choose from. Same with IPTV in the near future. You'll soon see all the major audio/video manufacturers building IPTV boxes for the platform as it becomes more widely accepted and deployed and the customer would have THEIR choice, not the cableco's choice. And HSI would be tons easier. Just like FiOS is now, you'd have a simple 100Bt termination at the NID to go straight to your router (or switch if IPv6 ever gets going).



I'll be honest, I don't understand 90% of what you are saying but just let me say this in regard to VoIP: Vonage works fantastic for me. It is so much cheaper, it doesn't make sense for me to purchase TW, I don't give a darn if it's a third party or not. TW wants to charge for frigging caller ID, ridiculous.


I'm staying with Vonage, it's he best.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/14714506
> 
> 
> There must be differences in SARA functionality offered by the cable companies. (Maybe the 8300HDC offers more functionality.) Not sure exactly what gwsat meant by "ongoing recording" but I have extended a recording that is in-progress, as well as adjusted "first-run only" recordings to start early and end late so I don't miss any of the show.
> 
> 
> That being said, the 30-second skip button would be great. Also, searching for a show by name is painful.



See that's the big mystery here. Because people in the same area I live in say it works, and others say it doesn't. I've discussed it many, many times before I got the S3. I've gotten 3 different boxes.


And when I added the eSATA that's when I started getting partial recordings. So I returned the eSATA (approved by SA) and got another one and no, they didn't send me the same one back I did that deal where you give your credit card, they ship it and when you get it you ship yours back. Same problem.


And after being used to TiVo's interface and search abilities SARA paled so badly in comparison. Then there were the other non eSATA issues like just not bothering to record if a week went by without a show. And I had no idea that all that warped pictures and sound drop offs were not broadcast issues until I got my S3.


It's a cheaply made piece of crap and that's why TW uses it because most people do not realize what a piece of crap it is.


I've never used Passport and I only have nickdawg and a few others who seem to give that a thumbs up over SARA. But everyone says that Navigator sucks. So where is the "improved technology" if they distribute a pos to deliver it?


I have heard some good things about the moto box.


----------



## Vchat20

Then if it helps any, ignore the fact I said 'VoIP' in the original post and instead replace that with TW's phone service and forget about 3rd party VoIP providers altogether in terms of that post.


Like I said: Right now TW has you locked into using their modems for their phone service and nothing else. And this is largely due to the fact to the (still) fairly proprietary Docsis based VoIP protocol they are using combined with the fact that none of the modem manufacturers have released a EMTA embedded cable modem to the public at retail.


If TW or any other cable company for that matter ever went full IP, it'd be easier to take their phone service to either dual proprietary protocol and SIP or just straight SIP. In lamens terms, SIP is the open protocol used by every 3rd party provider out there who uses off the shelf MTA's. Meaning you would not only be able to use the service with your own phone adapters, but soft phones, ip phones, etc..


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14710422
> 
> 
> It's awful hard to come to the party when you don't know what exactly to wear. The fact the the specs for two way communication existed did not mean that a decision to go with SDV had arrived. That decison was made after the sets and TiVo were already designed and in production.
> 
> 
> But let's just say you're statement is correct. Even then the law says that cable manufacturers have to provide a way for other DVR and Televsion equipment to be able to access their content. That is why Hawaii got the fine, they didn't obey the law.
> 
> 
> And as has already been shown the problems with these two way designed cable card machines have been tremendous. Which is why everyone is hopefull that Tru2Way Communication will work. Maybe.



I didn't mention SDV in my statement, Hookbill - I was only speaking of CableCard technology. "Tru2Way" is just a new term for a spec that has existed for some time now. The term was coined to make it easier for a consumer to identify whether a CableCard-equipped host device contains an upstream modulator.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14716851
> 
> 
> If TW or any other cable company for that matter ever went full IP, it'd be easier to take their phone service to either dual proprietary protocol and SIP or just straight SIP. In lamens terms, SIP is the open protocol used by every 3rd party provider out there who uses off the shelf MTA's. Meaning you would not only be able to use the service with your own phone adapters, but soft phones, ip phones, etc..



This is heading towards something I have seen discussed on another thread. The idea of having accessibilities to different devices through one server.


I think that's what you are saying.


Now I kind of like to think of myself as a semi high tech person, maybe not as smart as a lot of you guys but better then your average person walking down the street. I know this is true because when I start talking to people about HD, cable cards, TiVo, VoIP, I get the "deer in the headlights" look.


Now I'm having a bit of a problem with this type of thinking. Maybe I'm old fashion with this view point, a bit outdated, not so much as nickdawg and landline phones, but I don't want everything all hooked up to one or more device.


I don't know what a soft phone is exactly, is that like when you move your VoIP when you travel? I wouldn't do that anywy and don't care about it.


So essentially I'm giving you the "deer in the headlights" look, but I'm not embarrassed by it just honest.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14717077
> 
> 
> I didn't mention SDV in my statement, Hookbill - I was only speaking of CableCard technology. "Tru2Way" is just a new term for a spec that has existed for some time now. The term was coined to make it easier for a consumer to identify whether a CableCard-equipped host device contains an upstream modulator.



I see. So all this "technology" that I read about which Sony is suppose to be the mastermind is not really new, it's the same old stuff with a new terminology?


Not from what I understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way 


Tru2way is the brand name for interactive digital cable services delivered over the cable video network, for example interactive program guides, interactive ads, games, chat, web browsing, and t-commerce. The brand also appears as and is used to market cable services, applications, and devices that support the tru2way cable architecture. *Tru2way is the successor, consumer-focused, name for technology known as OpenCable.* Major cable operators have committed to deploy support for the tru2way platform in service areas covering more than 90 million U.S. homes by the end of 2008.


CableLabs, the industry's research and development arm, licenses the brand to cable companies and cable programmers that deliver tru2way applications and services, as well as consumer electronics (CE) manufacturers that build devices that support such applications and services. Use of the mark on CE devices requires CableLabs certification testing for conformance to the tru2way specifications (also known as the OpenCable Host 2.1 Specifications). *Tru2way includes a middleware technology that may be built into televisions, set-top boxes, and other devices. The technology enables cable companies and other interactive application developers to write applications once and see them run successfully on any device that supports the tru2way architecture. With tru2way technology, consumers can access interactive digital cable programming, including video-on-demand and pay-per-view content, without the need for a cable operator-supplied set-top box. The tru2way technology is capable of supporting all cable services now delivered to consumers via leased set top boxes, as well as future services written to the tru2way platform. Tru2way is a trademark of Cable Television Laboratories, Inc.*


Sort of what you say but there is a different technology involved.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14718280
> 
> 
> I don't know what a soft phone is exactly, is that like when you move your VoIP when you travel? I wouldn't do that anywy and don't care about it.



NP at all. A soft phone is basically a software based VoIP program much like Skype for example, but is designed to run on the open SIP protocol. A lot of VoIP providers that are open about their networks will allow you to use a soft phone, your own ATA/MTA (like the phone adapter you have for Vonage), or a straight IP phone (Corporate geared Cisco desk phones with ethernet connectivity are a good example. There are also a handful of wifi 'cellphones' with just SIP connectivity. I know Dlink offers one in an affordable price range).


And it doesn't have to be when you travel. All this means is it'd give you more flexibility even inside your home. You can have an ATA tied to the house landline wiring, a wifi SIP hardphone as an available cordless and take it outside your home wifi range say to a coffee shop or friends house if you want, or even just have a PC or two running a soft phone with a bluetooth headset. All would be tied to the same number (or multiple numbers if you desire) and all would work simultaneously and ring at the same time.


This is just one possibility I'm talking about. Right now TW and other cable providers lock you into the classic landline wiring scenario with their embedded ATA modems with no open access to the protocol. Going IP would add the possibility of them losing said proprietary protocol and going open with SIP and allowing the aforementioned possibilities.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14718326
> 
> 
> I see. So all this "technology" that I read about which Sony is suppose to be the mastermind is not really new, it's the same old stuff with a new terminology?
> 
> 
> Not from what I understand.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way
> 
> 
> *snip*



Also, just as a side note to this: Tru2Way is basically a close cousin of OCAP meaning Tru2way capable sets would give an out for the likes of Time Warner to dump Navigator/Mystro on your set for that supposed 'on demand and pay-per-view' access. Why do you think OCAP is designed completely in Java? Cross-platform capability. The software won't care what cpu the tv's running, Java will make it work.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Thanks for the replies regarding my phone service guys. If there's one thing this thread provides, it's ALL different opinions.

What about the Road Runner service? If I don't download a lot of stuff, will RR Lite be a good choice for me? I still want to surf the net a fast speeds though.

I also heard that if you get RR, it comes with free cable







. No flames please, that's just what I heard







.


----------



## nickdawg

Not to flame, but that sounds like a load of s---!


----------



## Smarty-pants

I don't know man. I'm feelin some singed hairs on that one...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14718652
> 
> 
> I don't know man. I'm feelin some singed hairs on that one...



Naw, I don't think nickdawg was giving you a flame, just an opinion. Time Warner and Free are never exactly true. There is always an "if" or "with" or something.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14716851
> 
> 
> ..............Like I said: Right now TW has you locked into using their modems for their phone service and nothing else. And this is largely due to the fact to the (still) fairly proprietary Docsis based VoIP protocol they are using combined with the fact that none of the modem manufacturers have released a EMTA embedded cable modem to the public at retail...............



Remember the old days when we had to "rent" our phones from Ohio Bell??


----------



## burgher

I know this has been covered over & over.....but dammit, New York execs should be made aware that WOIO not having a pot to _iss in still can't properly transmit a signal. They've been clipping in/out for over 1.5 weeks in Lorain. I recieve 19.1 both OTA & thru D* and BOTH have bothersome dropouts. Anybody with pull at CBS listening (or reading) ???

OK....back to the TW turtling board.....


----------



## Bismarck440

Again tonight I believe CFPL 10 is diminishing my 19 signal.... but 19 analog is not all that hot tonight either.


----------



## Bismarck440

I am currently uning the Zenith DTT901 converter box which has a nice feature that allows me to scan all RF frequencies, & see if any signal is coming in on the real RF channel.


I am regularly picking up heartbeats indicating signal (but no picture) on the following:


14 (on occasion)

17 (Very strong considering about 30-40%) I'm wondering if this will interfere with WKYC after the switch)

16 (on occasion)

26 (on occasion)

39 about 30-40%

44 (on occasion)

45 (on occasion)

50 30-40%

51 30-40%

57 about 25-35%


No, nothing at all on 41 out of Y-town, I'm a few miles from the lake in Lake County likely below the ridge.


Will an inside amp at the set help?


Tonight I'm getting about 25-50% on 19 & am getting a pixilated picture.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/14724153
> 
> 
> I know this has been covered over & over.....but dammit, New York execs should be made aware that WOIO not having a pot to _iss in still can't properly transmit a signal. They've been clipping in/out for over 1.5 weeks in Lorain. I recieve 19.1 both OTA & thru D* and BOTH have bothersome dropouts. Anybody with pull at CBS listening (or reading) ???
> 
> OK....back to the TW turtling board.....



I had the same thing on WOIO through TWC. Was gonna say something about this yesterday. It was so bad during the Big Bang Theory I ended saying fsck WOIO HD and watched WOIO analog. Also recorded Worst Week, 2.5 Men and CSI: Miami on analog as well.


New York _should_ hear about this joke channel. They can't even broadcast a decent digital channel plus they move network programming around. When that big tennis event was on CBS a few weeks ago, WOIO decided to dump it to SD on WOIO DT 2 so they could show their 'newscast'







.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA






































Sorry, that's what happens when I say WOIO and newscast in the same sentence!


With our current dark, grave economic situation I try to find a positive side. If things get a little worse maybe WOIO's owner will have to sell or even better shut down WOIO. Then TWC would be forced to pick up the far superior WKBN DT for us viewers here.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14725708
> 
> 
> 17 (Very strong considering about 30-40%) I'm wondering if this will interfere with WKYC after the switch)



This is WDLI. To my understanding, they will vacate this channel when the switch happens, and WKYC will take it over for their digital signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14726372
> 
> 
> New York _should_ hear about this joke channel. They can't even broadcast a decent digital channel plus they move network programming around. When that big tennis event was on CBS a few weeks ago, WOIO decided to dump it to SD on WOIO DT 2 so they could show their 'newscast'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, that's what happens when I say WOIO and newscast in the same sentence!
> 
> 
> With our current dark, grave economic situation I try to find a positive side. If things get a little worse maybe WOIO's owner will have to sell or even better shut down WOIO. Then TWC would be forced to pick up the far superior WKBN DT for us viewers here.



nickdawg, do you seriously think anybody in New York, or L.A. gives a flying f### about Cleveland?


Let me tell you that first they don't like us. Why? Let's just say we piss them off with politics. Second they think of us as a bunch of mindless working class people with a city that is do deteriorated that no one owns an HDTV anyway so who cares.


You can probably thank Columbus and Cincinnati for the political thing but we live in the same state.


Anyway they are locked into a contract with WOIO. And are we sure this is just a local issue? Has anybody checked the thread for televisions show discussions?


Edit: I see you do go over there but they talk about the shows more then about the quality of broadcast. I started a thread, let's see if we get a response.


----------



## JJkizak

The OTA dropouts on 19.1 with 98 signal strength lead me to believe that something is interferring with the signal. Occasionally Toledo OTA 11 digital will interfere with 17 digital as I recall. (When rescanning the digital channels 11 came up and overrided 17 for a short period of time until the probagation changed back to normal)

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14727805
> 
> 
> The OTA dropouts on 19.1 with 98 signal strength lead me to believe that something is interferring with the signal. Occasionally Toledo OTA 11 digital will interfere with 17 digital as I recall. (When rescanning the digital channels 11 came up and overrided 17 for a short period of time until the probagation changed back to normal)
> 
> JJK



I thought 98 OTA was fantastic.


----------



## rlb

I normally have no problems with any of the local OTA digital stations. I'm only six miles south of the antenna farm in Parma and have an antenna on my roof.


I watched CBS (19-1) last night because the new season had started. I definitely had breakups of 1-2 seconds several times during each hour of programming.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14727805
> 
> 
> The OTA dropouts on 19.1 with 98 signal strength lead me to believe that something is interferring with the signal. Occasionally Toledo OTA 11 digital will interfere with 17 digital as I recall. (When rescanning the digital channels 11 came up and overrided 17 for a short period of time until the probagation changed back to normal)
> 
> JJK



Is Toledo analog 11 on Digital 17?


Could be a problem for WKYC if WTOL doesn't relocate after the switch.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14727109
> 
> 
> This is WDLI. To my understanding, they will vacate this channel when the switch happens, and WKYC will take it over for their digital signal.



I cannot pick up Analog 17, however it should not be giving me any signal on my converter box. I'm sure the signal (but no picture) I'm recieving on 39 digital is WDLI, but who is broadcasting on Digital 17?


Edit... found the answer here..

http://www.noard.com/tvchannels.htm 


Now I read somewhere that WDLI 39 will be moving their transmitter & increasing the signal, along with 23 out of Akron, after the switchover, this true?


----------



## Bismarck440

So from what I understand from my neighbors & aquaintences that TWC no longer offers HD with a direct plug in to the set anymore for the local channels & forces you to rent a box?


Why bother to put Cable ready or QAM tuners in the sets?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14726372
> 
> 
> I had the same thing on WOIO through TWC. Was gonna say something about this yesterday. It was so bad during the Big Bang Theory I ended saying fsck WOIO HD and watched WOIO analog. Also recorded Worst Week, 2.5 Men and CSI: Miami on analog as well.
> 
> 
> New York _should_ hear about this joke channel. They can't even broadcast a decent digital channel plus they move network programming around. When that big tennis event was on CBS a few weeks ago, WOIO decided to dump it to SD on WOIO DT 2 so they could show their 'newscast'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, that's what happens when I say WOIO and newscast in the same sentence!
> 
> 
> With our current dark, grave economic situation I try to find a positive side. If things get a little worse maybe WOIO's owner will have to sell or even better shut down WOIO. Then TWC would be forced to pick up the far superior WKBN DT for us viewers here.




I don't get it?? arent you paying for cable to get better reception than OTA, & a direct feed from the station?


You are paying top dollar for this aggravation?


I wish I could get WKBN up here.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14732799
> 
> 
> So from what I understand from my neighbors & aquaintences that TWC no longer offers HD with a direct plug in to the set anymore for the local channels & forces you to rent a box?
> 
> 
> Why bother to put Cable ready or QAM tuners in the sets?



Incorrect. TWC is still offering local HDs in QAM format in the clear.


----------



## mnowlin

Well, the TW SDV announcement letter showed up in the mail today... It says that on 10/20/08, several (90+) "existing, lessed-viewed channels" will be switched to SDV. A big chunk of junk channels, most of the foreign-language ones, a bunch that show up as analog anyway, and a few that bug me. (The Encore set and the HBO-West set, in particular. These irk me since I pay extra for those packages.)


It does say they expect to be able to offer tuning adapters alter this year for Tivos, and states "It is currently believed that the Tuning Adapter will be provided at no additional charge."


If the SDV channel list they included is any hint as to what types of channels will be moved to SDV, I'm not too upset.... Gotta keep my MythTV tuners running...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14734517
> 
> 
> Well, the TW SDV announcement letter showed up in the mail today... It says that on 10/20/08, several (90+) "existing, lessed-viewed channels" will be switched to SDV. A big chunk of junk channels, most of the foreign-language ones, a bunch that show up as analog anyway, and a few that bug me. (The Encore set and the HBO-West set, in particular. These irk me since I pay extra for those packages.)
> 
> 
> It does say they expect to be able to offer tuning adapters alter this year for Tivos, and states "It is currently believed that the Tuning Adapter will be provided at no additional charge."
> 
> 
> If the SDV channel list they included is any hint as to what types of channels will be moved to SDV, I'm not too upset.... Gotta keep my MythTV tuners running...



Did you get the letter at Cuyahoga Falls? I'm around that area in Summit County as well and I have yet to see a letter. The more I thought about it I realized something. Doesn't Ben Music have a Tivo S3? I know mnowlin does, so I figure they are only sending the letters to Tivo/cable card users since they will be affected. I guess TWC doesn't find it important to tell anyone else that they are upgrading to SDV, sice those of us with cableco issued software will not see any changes(unless something doesn't work right). I expect there won't be any noticeable change on 10/20, except that the SDV screens will be active in diagnostics.


As for the premium channels, I hope they put Showtime on SDV. I once read somewhere that you can tune premium channels you don't get if someone else on the same grid tunes to that channel's stream. That could be fun.


Did the letter say anything about HD? Can we expect any new HD channels anytime soon?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14734685
> 
> 
> Did you get the letter at Cuyahoga Falls? I'm around that area in Summit County as well and I have yet to see a letter. The more I thought about it I realized something. Doesn't Ben Music have a Tivo S3? I know mnowlin does, so I figure they are only sending the letters to Tivo/cable card users since they will be affected. I guess TWC doesn't find it important to tell anyone else that they are upgrading to SDV, sice those of us with cableco issued software will not see any changes(unless something doesn't work right). I expect there won't be any noticeable change on 10/20, except that the SDV screens will be active in diagnostics.
> 
> 
> As for the premium channels, I hope they put Showtime on SDV. I once read somewhere that you can tune premium channels you don't get if someone else on the same grid tunes to that channel's stream. That could be fun.
> 
> 
> Did the letter say anything about HD? Can we expect any new HD channels anytime soon?




I think you may be right nickdawg. TW may be sending those letters out only to TiVo people and not everyone. I haven't got one yet but I think that the SARA issue may delay any changes around here, although the fact that a person in ex Comcast area got one is even more surprising.


Can you imagine if that letter went out to everybody? Sure we all know what SDV is but John Q Public sure doesn't, ask anybody where you work and watch the deer in the headlights pop out.










One other thing dawg - I know how excited you get and how you're mind starts running wild with possibilities. Please keep in mind two things. TW never keeps a promise on time. Never. And also if you take a look here you will notice that many of these channels that mnowlin mentions are on that same list as in Austin, TX. Also notice the HD additional channels. Yes, there are some more but not anything like 50 or even 25.


Also keep in mind about how tight TW is with money. They give the cheapest equipment and they "negotiate" forever before signing anything. The part about the channel resolver "in the near future" could mean to them around Easter. Who knows?










But I do know you a bit so once again, calm down, have a beer, and let things happen. Don't let your imagination run wild, they will not catch D* in two months. Or 6. Maybe never.


----------



## Argee

Someone used to post the emails of the chief engineers at the Cleveland TV stations. If that person is till around perhaps he can post them and we can try to get some feedback from WOIO.

This problem has been going on for at least 6 weeks. They got to know about it although it does seem they do not monitor their output ala Browns game staying in SD for first 20 minutes of broadcast and these constant breakups and dropouts of their HD feed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/14735053
> 
> 
> Someone used to post the emails of the chief engineers at the Cleveland TV stations. If that person is till around perhaps he can post them and we can try to get some feedback from WOIO.
> 
> This problem has been going on for at least 6 weeks. They got to know about it although it does seem they do not monitor their output ala Browns game staying in SD for first 20 minutes of broadcast and these constant breakups and dropouts of their HD feed.



That would be TV21CHEIF and he works for channel 21 out of Youngstown, an NBC affiliate. He hasn't posted here for a while, he does post in the Youngstown thread. Don't think he'd be much help to you, he's not really in any position to tell anyone else how to run their stations.


----------



## Argee

WOIO Bob Maupin, Chief Engineer. I think his email is [email protected] . I know the newestaffs emails use first initial and last name so I would think his would do the same.

Lets all ask him politely about the problems with the HD signal. I am sure he does not want to blow this stuff off.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14735017
> 
> 
> I think you may be right nickdawg. TW may be sending those letters out only to TiVo people and not everyone. I haven't got one yet but I think that the SARA issue may delay any changes around here, although the fact that a person in ex Comcast area got one is even more surprising.
> 
> 
> Can you imagine if that letter went out to everybody? Sure we all know what SDV is but John Q Public sure doesn't, ask anybody where you work and watch the deer in the headlights pop out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One other thing dawg - I know how excited you get and how you're mind starts running wild with possibilities. Please keep in mind two things. TW never keeps a promise on time. Never. And also if you take a look here you will notice that many of these channels that mnowlin mentions are on that same list as in Austin, TX. Also notice the HD additional channels. Yes, there are some more but not anything like 50 or even 25.
> 
> 
> Also keep in mind about how tight TW is with money. They give the cheapest equipment and they "negotiate" forever before signing anything. The part about the channel resolver "in the near future" could mean to them around Easter. Who knows?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I do know you a bit so once again, calm down, have a beer, and let things happen. Don't let your imagination run wild, they will not catch D* in two months. Or 6. Maybe never.



TW sent these letters to everybody that uses cablecards, not just Tivo owners. I have to turn in my cablecard and pay an additional $5 a month for a HD box.

I hope they use the additional bandwidth for more HD channels and not for their telephone and internet service.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14728356
> 
> 
> Now I read somewhere that WDLI 39 will be moving their transmitter & increasing the signal, along with 23 out of Akron, after the switchover, this true?



WDLI-DT is transmitting from Akron already, just down the hill from WVPX-DT. I thought I read somewhere that they were hoping to move from DT 39 to DT 49 after WEAO abandons analog 49 at the transition...I believe with a power increase, though they haven't filed a CP for it yet that I can see.


The important part here is that WDLI will abandon their own analog 17 no matter which digital channel they end up using, even the current 39. That clears the way for WKYC-DT to light up on 17, and fix all of their low-VHF problems now on DT 2...


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14737407
> 
> 
> WDLI-DT is transmitting from Akron already, just down the hill from WVPX-DT. I thought I read somewhere that they were hoping to move from DT 39 to DT 49 after WEAO abandons analog 49 at the transition...I believe with a power increase, though they haven't filed a CP for it yet that I can see.
> 
> 
> The important part here is that WDLI will abandon their own analog 17 no matter which digital channel they end up using, even the current 39. That clears the way for WKYC-DT to light up on 17, and fix all of their low-VHF problems now on DT 2...



What???????


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/14737449
> 
> 
> What???????



What part did you want to know about?


He asked if WDLI-DT (the digital side of Channel 17) out of Canton was moving and increasing power. I replied that WDLI has already moved its digital transmitter to Akron.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14737407
> 
> 
> WDLI-DT is transmitting from Akron already, just down the hill from WVPX-DT. I thought I read somewhere that they were hoping to move from DT 39 to DT 49 after WEAO abandons analog 49 at the transition...I believe with a power increase, though they haven't filed a CP for it yet that I can see.
> 
> 
> The important part here is that WDLI will abandon their own analog 17 no matter which digital channel they end up using, even the current 39. That clears the way for WKYC-DT to light up on 17, and fix all of their low-VHF problems now on DT 2...



Thank you for your reply, I read about a possible power increase on 39 & a move but this information may had been dated & it already happened... I am consistantly getting a signal of around 30% on 39 DTV but still haven't captured the signal. I'm curious now about 23's future coverage, I get a 23 analog here with some grain most of the time, likely I didn't think I'd be able to get the digital signal from them. I picked up 50-1 & 50-2 last night for about 15 minutes, too bad I'm going to have to wait for WVIZ to get fully online for a PBS affiliate here.










I was also picking up 17-1 & -2 out of Toledo (11's DTV) this evening (pixelated at times), think this will interfere with WKYC going to 17?


I NEVER have trouble with 5 here (15-1) or 61 (34-1)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740016
> 
> 
> What part did you want to know about?
> 
> 
> He asked if WDLI-DT (the digital side of Channel 17) out of Canton was moving and increasing power. I replied that WDLI has already moved its digital transmitter to Akron.



Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14740177
> 
> 
> Thank you for your reply, I read about a possible power increase on 39 & a move but this information may had been dated & it already happened... I am consistantly getting a signal of around 30% on 39 DTV but still haven't captured the signal. I'm curious now about 23's future coverage, I get a 23 analog here with some grain most of the time, likely I didn't think I'd be able to get the digital signal from them. I picked up 50-1 & 50-2 last night for about 15 minutes, too bad I'm going to have to wait for WVIZ to get fully online for a PBS affiliate here.



The FCC is set to rule on WDLI-DT's request to relocate from 39 to 49 sometime in the next month, I'd guess.



> Quote:
> I was also picking up 17-1 & -2 out of Toledo (11's DTV) this evening (pixelated at times), think this will interfere with WKYC going to 17?



Nope. After next year, WTOL-DT will be reverting to channel 11 for its digital operation.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14740208
> 
> 
> Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?



They want to boost from 180 to 250 kW, but that's probably not going to do much for you.


- Trip


----------



## mobgre

sooo.. you are about 5-600 miles away from us. WTH??????????


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14740208
> 
> 
> Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?



49-1 will still be on 50. As Trip noted, they have a small maximization application in the hopper.


Where are you in regards to Copley Township, where both WEAO and WVPX are? There's some sort of terrain that supposedly gives those stations fits in parts of Cuyahoga County, I wanna say near Richfield. Others here would know.


WDLI is still licensed to Canton, even with the DT physically being located up in the Akron area. 55, for that matter, is still licensed to Akron, despite both its analog and digital sticks being in the Parma antenna farm.


The license city doesn't mean much (WUAB, also in the Parma antenna farm, is licensed to Lorain, and always has been, long before digital TV). The TV sticks are powerful enough to "serve" those license cities even if the antenna is nowhere near the city.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14740177
> 
> 
> I'm curious now about 23's future coverage, I get a 23 analog here with some grain most of the time, likely I didn't think I'd be able to get the digital signal from them.



Again, we're only gonna be able to help you if you tell us where you are in the area. (No, not your street address, just your city...)


23 is supposed to maximize to 1000KW after the transition. See above about the physical terrain problems between parts of Cuyahoga County and the Akron TV/FM antenna farm (Copley)...my guess is you'd have a shot at it, though. And that's without knowing where you are in the area.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740016
> 
> 
> What part did you want to know about?
> 
> 
> He asked if WDLI-DT (the digital side of Channel 17) out of Canton was moving and increasing power. I replied that WDLI has already moved its digital transmitter to Akron.



Who gives a @$#$?????







jk. enjoy your posts.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/14740297
> 
> 
> sooo.. you are about 5-600 miles away from us. WTH??????????



Trip knows what he's talking about, whether he's in Virginia or here in Ohio.


Click on the link in his signature - he built that (Rabbitears) from scratch.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/14740335
> 
> 
> Who gives a @$#$?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jk. enjoy your posts.



Are you here for information, help or discussion about digital TV in Northeast Ohio? Or are you here just to dump on people?


The latter will get you placed on ignore rather quickly, and if it continues, you'll get a not so friendly note from the moderators.


Relax, enjoy, and feel free to ask questions or share knowledge! That's what this thread is here for.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740379
> 
> 
> Are you here for information, help or discussion about digital TV in Northeast Ohio? Or are you here just to dump on people?
> 
> 
> The latter will get you placed on ignore rather quickly, and if it continues, you'll get a not so friendly note from the moderators.
> 
> 
> Relax, enjoy, and feel free to ask questions or share knowledge! That's what this thread is here for.



ok


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740379
> 
> 
> Are you here for information, help or discussion about digital TV in Northeast Ohio? Or are you here just to dump on people?
> 
> 
> The latter will get you placed on ignore rather quickly, and if it continues, you'll get a not so friendly note from the moderators.
> 
> 
> Relax, enjoy, and feel free to ask questions or share knowledge! That's what this thread is here for.



+1


Way to go Inundated.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740351
> 
> 
> Trip knows what he's talking about, whether he's in Virginia or here in Ohio.
> 
> 
> Click on the link in his signature - he built that (Rabbitears) from scratch.



Thanks for the kind words. =)


I post all over the place, trying to help out wherever I can, even if I've never physically been somewhere. I follow FCC proceedings very closely and I know that a lot of people can't figure out the FCC site (it's a confusing beast) so I try to make it easier and share that knowledge.


In all fairness, I didn't code the site. I just collected all the data and loaded it in and keep it updated every day.







I only wish I knew enough about coding to have built it myself.


(Actually, I'm working on a little side project relating to the site and want to use it to teach myself to code with some PHP and JavaScript, so who knows, maybe some of it will end up self-coded.)


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg

Anybody else seeing funny picture on WKYC? During The Office the picture briefly froze then pixelated and the sound was funny at some parts. Did not happen during Earl and ER has been OK so far.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14740944
> 
> 
> Anybody else seeing funny picture on WKYC? During The Office the picture briefly froze then pixelated and the sound was funny at some parts. Did not happen during Earl and ER has been OK so far.



I don't watch those shows but I notice that you post frequently about live telecasts. Just wondering, what do you use your DVR for? I'm always at least a week behind.


Do you use it for keeping things that you don't want to get rid of? Perhaps you don't use it that often?


Just curious. And I'm not trying to start a battle here really but for someone who was so proud of the SA 8300 Passport is it possible that Navigator is keeping you from using it? Or were you never that big on DVR? If you only have the 20 hour recording space I can understand why.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14740247
> 
> 
> The FCC is set to rule on WDLI-DT's request to relocate from 39 to 49 sometime in the next month, I'd guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. After next year, WTOL-DT will be reverting to channel 11 for its digital operation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They want to boost from 180 to 250 kW, but that's probably not going to do much for you.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I was finally able to lock in 39-3 through 7 last evening, I'm just missing this with a pretty consistant signal of 30% sometimes peaking a bit higher, last night I was catching the signal at 50%..... so the boost likely won't help?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740309
> 
> 
> 49-1 will still be on 50. As Trip noted, they have a small maximization application in the hopper.
> 
> 
> Where are you in regards to Copley Township, where both WEAO and WVPX are? There's some sort of terrain that supposedly gives those stations fits in parts of Cuyahoga County, I wanna say near Richfield. Others here would know.
> 
> 
> WDLI is still licensed to Canton, even with the DT physically being located up in the Akron area. 55, for that matter, is still licensed to Akron, despite both its analog and digital sticks being in the Parma antenna farm.
> 
> 
> The license city doesn't mean much (WUAB, also in the Parma antenna farm, is licensed to Lorain, and always has been, long before digital TV). The TV sticks are powerful enough to "serve" those license cities even if the antenna is nowhere near the city..



WDLI's translator on 51 is licensed to Kirtland, yet the translator is actually in Newbury, as goes with WVIZ's translator on 63 licensed to Eastlake, yet the transmitter is in Thompson, the signal never makes it to Eastlake let alone Mentor.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740309
> 
> 
> Again, we're only gonna be able to help you if you tell us where you are in the area. (No, not your street address, just your city...)
> 
> 
> 23 is supposed to maximize to 1000KW after the transition. See above about the physical terrain problems between parts of Cuyahoga County and the Akron TV/FM antenna farm (Copley)...my guess is you'd have a shot at it, though. And that's without knowing where you are in the area.



In central Lake county (Mentor) a few miles from the lake, I'm imagining just beyond the ridge this seems to be a RF black hole around here, though 23 analog is very watchable now with a little grain most of the time..... I never could get 23 here untill a few years back, they most have changed something.


Again,. I seem to be just missing Digital 50 & 39, though last night was an exception,







atmospheric conditions I imagine, 50-1 (49) was perfect 60-70% signal with no pixelation.


Would a small amp at the set help? We are going to lose PBS up here. (along with CBS at times but that's another story we all know)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14742934
> 
> 
> WDLI's translator on 51 is licensed to Kirtland, yet the translator is actually in Newbury, as goes with WVIZ's translator on 63 licensed to Eastlake, yet the transmitter is in Thompson, the signal never makes it to Eastlake let alone Mentor.



There are different license rules for translators. They don't actually have to serve their cities of license for some reason. (Same with FM radio translators!)


Full-power stations, like WVPX and WBNX, do have to put a certain amount of signal over the COL (Akron). LPTV/translators do not.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14742934
> 
> 
> In central Lake county (Mentor) a few miles from the lake, I'm imagining just beyond the ridge this seems to be a RF black hole around here, though 23 analog is very watchable now with a little grain most of the time..... I never could get 23 here untill a few years back, they most have changed something.



Yep, they did...23 maximized to full analog UHF power (5000KW) shortly after the PAX folks took over.


Aside from the fact that 23's owners before were just trying to serve Akron/Canton, I've heard rumblings that they could have lost their then-ABC affiliation if they increased power, since WEWS/5 would complain to the network.


With a new owner (after interim owner ValueVision sold to PAX), ABC was out of the picture, and the power increase was clear.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14742934
> 
> 
> Would a small amp at the set help? We are going to lose PBS up here. (along with CBS at times but that's another story we all know)



You don't think you'll get WVIZ-DT's maximized new stick on the WKYC tower after the transition?


----------



## mobgre

*


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14742847
> 
> 
> I was finally able to lock in 39-3 through 7 last evening, I'm just missing this with a pretty consistant signal of 30% sometimes peaking a bit higher, last night I was catching the signal at 50%..... so the boost likely won't help?



Yeah, 180 kW to 250 kW isn't even a 2 dB boost in signal.


Now WDLI-DT, they want to go from 200 kW on channel 39, to 900 kW on channel 49. That's more than 6 dB of additional signal, and that might just do it for you.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14742934
> 
> 
> Again,. I seem to be just missing Digital 50 & 39, though last night was an exception,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> atmospheric conditions I imagine, 50-1 (49) was perfect 60-70% signal with no pixelation.
> 
> 
> Would a small amp at the set help? We are going to lose PBS up here. (along with CBS at times but that's another story we all know)



A small amp could help, I suppose it couldn't hurt to try if you bought one somewhere that it could be easily returned. You just have to be concerned with multipath at that point, so if you see ghosts in your analog signal, you'll want to be careful about amplifying the signal too much.


- Trip


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14740351
> 
> 
> Trip knows what he's talking about, whether he's in Virginia or here in Ohio.
> 
> 
> Click on the link in his signature - he built that (Rabbitears) from scratch.



19 years old??? I have pimples on my ars older than Trip. No offense Trip.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/14745213
> 
> 
> 19 years old???



Yeah, he's 19. He's been on these forums for a good 4 years or so, believe it or not!


He's smart, a quick study and has learned a lot about all this stuff over the years.


And he acts older than some folks much older than he is.


Now, are you going to behave?


----------



## nickdawg

I guess that means someone like smarty-pants must be 12.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/14745213
> 
> 
> 19 years old??? I have pimples on my ars older than Trip. No offense Trip.



Haha. =) None taken. Though I'll be 20 a month from today, will I still be younger than them then?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14746879
> 
> 
> Yeah, he's 19. He's been on these forums for a good 4 years or so, believe it or not!
> 
> 
> He's smart, a quick study and has learned a lot about all this stuff over the years.
> 
> 
> And he acts older than some folks much older than he is.
> 
> 
> Now, are you going to behave?



Heh, thanks for the kind words! I'm blushing!










I'm presently at the University of Virginia studying to become (what else?) a broadcast engineer. TV broadcasting and reception has been the one interest I've held on to since I can remember.


It's like my dad always said, if you're going to do something, be the best at it. Thus, I've done as much as I can to be the best I can be at my chosen field, starting a website dedicated to it and helping others as much as I can. Now if only I didn't have to go through all this formal schooling.










- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14747224
> 
> 
> Haha. =)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, thanks for the kind words! I'm blushing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm presently at the University of Virginia studying to become (what else?) a broadcast engineer. TV broadcasting and reception has been the one interest I've held on to since I can remember.
> 
> 
> It's like my dad always said, if you're going to do something, be the best at it. Thus, I've done as much as I can to be the best I can be at my chosen field, starting a website dedicated to it and helping others as much as I can. Now if only I didn't have to go through all this formal schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Unbelievable. A 19 year old who listens to his dad! You're wise way beyond your years, young man. Very rare to find someone like that.


Now there has got to be a "but" here. You wear your hair in a mohawk and you got your nipples and nose pierced? Your hair is purple? Your pubic hair is purple?


Please tell me what the defect is. Because if there isn't you may become somebody who does something good with their life.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14747264
> 
> 
> Unbelievable. A 19 year old who listens to his dad! You're wise way beyond your years, young man. Very rare to find someone like that.



I prefer to learn from the mistakes and knowledge of others rather than learn the hard way. Another thing my dad taught me that I adhere to every day--"if you don't know what you're talking about, close your mouth and open your ears." Thus, I am as I am.



> Quote:
> Now there has got to be a "but" here. You wear your hair in a mohawk and you got your nipples and nose pierced? Your hair is purple? Your pubic hair is purple?



Haha, no, no, and no.

http://www.rabbitears.info/nbc29/215.jpg 


From left to right, Mike from the Amateur Radio club (I'm hoping to get licensed this year), then myself in the cap, and two roommates, Rohan and Josh.



> Quote:
> Please tell me what the defect is. Because if there isn't you may become somebody who does something good with their life.



I'm a horrible procrastinator unless I enjoy what it is I have to do (namely, at this point, my website). Since it doesn't impact my hobbies, I think I should be alright.










- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14746908
> 
> 
> I guess that means someone like smarty-pants must be 12.



Nick, your constant rambling and grumbling about this and that translates to you being the equivilant of a drunken bi-polar hyper-active 9 yr old. Someone like you insinuating that someone else may be immature? An oxymoron indeed. ...emphasis on the moron part for sure.


----------



## hookbill

Well, I tried but I just couldn't resist. The Los Angeles Dodgers with Manny Ramirerz ( 36 runs 72 hits 14 doubles 17 home runs 53 RBI's Slugging .749 batting avg.393 ) and Casey Blake (52 hits 12 doubles 1 triple 10 home runs 23 RBI's .313 On Base .466 Slugging .252 batting average) will be on TBS in HD, and how sweet it would be if the Dodgers meet the Red Sox in the World Series! All in HD, of course!










Those stats are strictly with the Dodgers. And they now call L.A. Mannywood!


Of course the Dodgers are loaded with stars you guys probably never heard of like Andre Eithier and my favorite player Matt Kemp. You probably heard of Russell Martin. And we have a great first baseman, James Loney. Well, you'll be seeing them all the way this year, and all in HD!


Might as well watch the playoffs. You're certainly not going to waste anymore time with the Brownies, are you?
























Yeah, I don't expect a response but once again we couldn't have done it without you. Thank you Cleveland! And it seems like you're getting some more players ready for us in a few years. We do appreciate it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14747444
> 
> 
> Nick, your constant rambling and grumbling about this and that translates to you being the equivilant of a drunken bi-polar hyper-active 9 yr old. Someone like you insinuating that someone else may be immature? An oxymoron indeed. ...emphasis on the moron part for sure.



ROFLOL!!!!! What a comeback!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14747549
> 
> 
> Well, I tried but I just couldn't resist. The Los Angeles Dodgers with Manny Ramirerz ( 36 runs 72 hits 14 doubles 17 home runs 53 RBI's Slugging .749 batting avg.393 ) and Casey Blake (52 hits 12 doubles 1 triple 10 home runs 23 RBI's .313 On Base .466 Slugging .252 batting average) will be on TBS in HD, and how sweet it would be if the Dodgers meet the Red Sox in the World Series! All in HD, of course!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those stats are strictly with the Dodgers. And they now call L.A. Mannywood!
> 
> 
> Of course the Dodgers are loaded with stars you guys probably never heard of like Andre Eithier and my favorite player Matt Kemp. You probably heard of Russell Martin. And we have a great first baseman, James Loney. Well, you'll be seeing them all the way this year, and all in HD!
> 
> 
> Might as well watch the playoffs. You're certainly not going to waste anymore time with the Brownies, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't expect a response but once again we couldn't have done it without you. Thank you Cleveland! And it seems like you're getting some more players ready for us in a few years. We do appreciate it.



Haven't you heard. Professional sports teams no longer exist in northeast Ohio







. They have all but disapppeared. I hear Baltimore is looking for a second team for their city. I know of one they could buy... cheap.


Good to hear that you are able to root for a professional winning team







.

I wish your teams the best of luck







.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14747549
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't expect a response but once again we couldn't have done it without you. Thank you Cleveland! And it seems like you're getting some more players ready for us in a few years. We do appreciate it.



Don't forget that you guys picked up Manny from the Red Sox...he hasn't been leaving uncashed paychecks in cars in Cleveland for years now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14748092
> 
> 
> Don't forget that you guys picked up Manny from the Red Sox...he hasn't been leaving uncashed paychecks in cars in Cleveland for years now.



No, I'm well aware of that. I'm just kind of pointing out how the good ones all get away from here.


And what makes Manny such a good deal is the Dodgers paid him zippo. Nadda. Not one red cent. Boston paid his salary.


That's why I think it would be so great to have the Dodgers and Red Sox in the World Series. In L.A., Manny is a god. In Beantown, well, you can just imagine.


I don't know if Blake will be back next year but I'm sure Manny will. I think the Dodgers are looking at bringing back Adrien Beltre from Seatle.


And we are taking LeBron next. As I mentioned before now that he and Kolby have played on the same team, I'll bet King James will be wearing Gold. that is, the Purple and Gold, not the Wine and Gold.


All off topic, I know so we will now return you to your normal conversation.


By the way all playoff games are shown in HD. That kind of brings in in topic.


----------



## paule123

The new PBS 45/49 commercial about their new logo makes about as much sense as the new Microsoft commercial with Seinfeld and Bill Gates. Glad they are spending donors' dollars on that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14749084
> 
> 
> The new PBS 45/49 commercial about their new logo makes about as much sense as the new Microsoft commercial with Seinfeld and Bill Gates. Glad they are spending donors' dollars on that.



I just flipped over to WNEO right now. If that is going to be the new, permanent bug that is on screen all the time, my viewing that channel will decrease.


It says Coming Soon. Western Reserve (PBS logo) and there is some green colored crap above it that covers the lower third banners of the programming. Luckily it just went away and the normal bug is on. For now.


But even with the ugly bug, I'll still NEVER tune into WVIZ. They'll always be the worst PBS channel on TWC!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14747444
> 
> 
> Nick, your constant rambling and grumbling about this and that translates to you being the equivilant of a drunken bi-polar hyper-active 9 yr old. Someone like you insinuating that someone else may be immature? An oxymoron indeed. ...emphasis on the moron part for sure.



Gawd, somebody has no sense of humor. I laughed about your 9 year old thing. (slowly walks towards door).


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14747405
> 
> 
> I'm a horrible procrastinator unless I enjoy what it is I have to do (namely, at this point, my website). Since it doesn't impact my hobbies, I think I should be alright.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



No, no, that's not it...... Wait a minute - you're wearing your watch on your right arm. That must mean you're a LEFTY, you freak of nature!










Good luck on your ham exams.


mike N8NVW


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14735446
> 
> 
> TW sent these letters to everybody that uses cablecards, not just Tivo owners. I have to turn in my cablecard and pay an additional $5 a month for a HD box.
> 
> I hope they use the additional bandwidth for more HD channels and not for their telephone and internet service.



I was just looking back and caught your post. I thought that might be the situation. Thanks for the response.


And that's absolute bull #### that they are making you get a box. WTF, it's suppose to be ready for HD.


And I still have not received my letter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14749152
> 
> 
> Gawd, somebody has no sense of humor. I laughed about your 9 year old thing. (slowly walks towards door).



nickdawg when I read what you wrote I was a bit surprised. I thought it came off kind of hard, I almost responded myself and said hey, what did smarty - pants do to you?


Then smarty - pants came up with that knock out punch. Which although I also thought was hard was funny as hell!


You see the three of us are wise guys from time to time. And nickdawg, in your case you can change your position more then a polititician.


"All we are saying,

Is give Peace a Chance." So it was a misunderstanding. Now let's be friends again, OK?


See that's the problem with posting, what you really mean and when I say you I mean posting in general can come off different then what you meant.


And nickdawg, you never responded to my question about how you use your DVR. Did you miss the post?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14749152
> 
> 
> Gawd, somebody has no sense of humor. I laughed about your 9 year old thing. (slowly walks towards door).





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Then smarty - pants came up with that knock out punch. Which although I also thought was hard was funny as hell!



How could I have no sense of humor? I thought it was funny... Hook thought it was funny...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14742847
> 
> 
> I was finally able to lock in 39-3 through 7 last evening, I'm just missing this with a pretty consistant signal of 30% sometimes peaking a bit higher, last night I was catching the signal at 50%..... so the boost likely won't help?



39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.


I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14740208
> 
> 
> Noticed the DTV 39 ID's themself as Akron/Cleveland instead of Canton, I could only hope for the same coverage as 55 here. 49-1 would be nice to have too, no plans for increase of power/coverage on that I suppose?



Ironically 55's transmitter is at the northeast corner of the Parma antenna farm, while WDLI-DT is in the western Akron area (thier analog 17 transmitter is in Louisville much closer to their COL). Perhaps WDLI-DT has filed for a change in COL? They can't just ignore their COL (as in not mentioning their COL in the ID's) without FCC approval.


No power increase can help 49-1 as long as they remain in the "Richfield shadow". WVPX-23 suffers from the same anamoly that causes inferior reception for the good chunk of Cuyahoga County.


I wish all the Akron stations (and Cleveland stations too) would move to Richfield. That is the highest point in the region (it's the "summit" in Summit County). Ironically no broadcast tower resides there (with the possible exception of a few cell towers and microwave relays - and trucking companies). Other markets have co-located towers at the high point (in California Mt. Sutro {I'm guessing on the spelling} has most of the LA DMA towers no matter what COL of the stations). From Richfield all the major COL's could be reached with enough power.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14749492
> 
> 
> No, no, that's not it...... Wait a minute - you're wearing your watch on your right arm. That must mean you're a LEFTY, you freak of nature!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck on your ham exams.
> 
> 
> mike N8NVW



I'm not a lefty, I just wear my watch on my right hand. I never said I was normal.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14750132
> 
> 
> 39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.
> 
> 
> I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.



Without knowing what kind of receiver he has, it's hard to say for sure, but I know that Sony TVs, for instance, will not map anything unless it's detected during a scan. So any new stations will show up unmapped. I'm not familiar with a lot of receivers, but I wouldn't be surprised if more of them did that.


- Trip


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14750261
> 
> 
> Without knowing what kind of receiver he has, it's hard to say for sure, but I know that Sony TVs, for instance, will not map anything unless it's detected during a scan. So any new stations will show up unmapped. I'm not familiar with a lot of receivers, but I wouldn't be surprised if more of them did that.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I've noticed that on Sony also, and it's pretty annoying considering how slow the scan is. They must be using a pretty slow processor.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14750164
> 
> 
> Ironically 55's transmitter is at the northeast corner of the Parma antenna farm, while WDLI-DT is in the western Akron area (thier analog 17 transmitter is in Louisville much closer to their COL). Perhaps WDLI-DT has filed for a change in COL? They can't just ignore their COL (as in not mentioning their COL in the ID's) without FCC approval.



WDLI has not filed to change its COL.


Here, take a look...all Canton.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67893 


Perhaps he saw the legal ID as "WDLI Canton-Akron-Cleveland" and just missed the Canton part...if they put "WDLI Canton" on the screen, they can put anything else after it or in addition to it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14750164
> 
> 
> From Richfield all the major COL's could be reached with enough power.



I'm not sure what a move to Richfield would do as far as coverage for the Cleveland-licensed stations. Would it affect, for example, viewers up past Mentor and into Lake County?


It's not happening, anyway. It's a major expense to build a new tower site at a new location, plus you have to gain local zoning approval and fight the NIMBYs. Not worth it for the Cleveland stations...and still a hurdle for stations like WVPX, for example. I assume WEAO wouldn't do it, because it would lessen signal down to the south. WBNX already moved to Parma.


At least with WKYC's new tower, which will also house WVIZ, it's on their existing site - and no zoning fights result.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14750132
> 
> 
> 39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.
> 
> 
> I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.



+1. WDLI-DT is indeed on 17-1 through 17-5.


I got my Insignia/Zenith CECB to "start" to pick up WKBN-DT, and it took in one scan as 41-1/41-2. I think you're correct, in general, a weak signal that's there enough to "scan" but not enough to display could result in odd PSIP/channel results.


----------



## Cathode Kid

With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow.


----------



## Trip in VA

As long as the subject in here is on OTA (and this won't get lost in a sea of cable talk), is there anyone here using OTA with a computer-card on Windows who would be willing to give me a hand in some data collection of local stations for my website? If you're interested, either PM or e-mail.


Thanks. =)


EDIT: Inundated has PMed an offer to help, so I think I'm covered. Thanks! =)


- Trip


----------



## hookbill

I bought a new pair of rabbit ears for my cockatoo. I got the Philips Indoor model at Target. I think I saw it on a link in this forum somewhere and it was pretty highly rated.


I still can't get channel 3 at all, but Tyler (the bird) likes FOX 8 and the radio shack one I bought wasn't cutting it. I was lucky to get a 50 signal. With this one I'm getting in the green at 72.


When my wife saw it she simply said "Star Trek." I didn't realize it but it does look like the Enterprise.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14751065
> 
> 
> With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow.



Guilty as charged,







but I haven't been on the air since 2000. I never liked going to those hamfests, they are usually over by 9am, pretty much everyone is packed up by noon even though they are suppose to be going till 3-4.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14750132
> 
> 
> 39-3 thru 39-7??? The virtural channel numbers are not mapping correctly. The last time I watched WDLI-DT (which was some time ago) the display was 17-1 thru 17-5. It's probably due to the weak signal you were receiving.
> 
> 
> I like to DX too, and have gotten weird mappings like that in the past.



It mapped them at 17-1 to 17-5, however when the signal dropped off while 17-5 was on, the mappings then reverted to 39-3 through 39-7... even within the guide.


Now even though I lost the picture on 50-1 & 50-2, the STB retained the settings as 49-1 & 49-2.










The first 2 Magnavox STB's I tested would NOT map 55 as 55-1 but mapped them as 30-1... both Magnavoxes, 2 different models(???) No guide info was available from 55 either.


Now while on the subject of STB's I'm looking into getting a second one to work with my VCR... The Zenith DT901 is clearly the best, but I need a different brand so that it does not confuse the remotes being in the same room.


Was looking into the Apex 250, though some report that the tuner is not quite up to par in the fringe areas which is where I am, & Magnavox/Funi has reliability issues, any advice there?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14751067
> 
> 
> As long as the subject in here is on OTA (and this won't get lost in a sea of cable talk), is there anyone here using OTA with a computer-card on Windows who would be willing to give me a hand in some data collection of local stations for my website? If you're interested, either PM or e-mail.
> 
> 
> Thanks. =)
> 
> 
> EDIT: Inundated has PMed an offer to help, so I think I'm covered. Thanks! =)
> 
> 
> - Trip




I've wondered could I use my STB's with a video card on the PC when I finally do replace my TV's somewhare down the road? (I would think that would work, though I know it wouldn't be in true HD)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14750773
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what a move to Richfield would do as far as coverage for the Cleveland-licensed stations. Would it affect, for example, viewers up past Mentor and into Lake County?



Eh... we don't count much up here anyway







.... suprisingly too when I was in Ashtabula, you almost had a better shot to Cleveland than Erie (which the transmitters were closer). 3 & 5 were a longshot, I was only able to get 8 there on a regular basis, though Ashtabula is still considered part of the Cleveland market.


Repeaters below the ridge would solve that problem, but that's not gonna happen. Right now I'm only mapping 7 channels here, reason why I'm asking about future power increases & transmitter moves.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14751065
> 
> 
> With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow.



When is HD fest?


We can get ham at Arby's after.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14749678
> 
> 
> I was just looking back and caught your post. I thought that might be the situation. Thanks for the response.
> 
> 
> And that's absolute bull #### that they are making you get a box. WTF, it's suppose to be ready for HD.
> 
> 
> And I still have not received my letter.



Why is it bull? Those "HD cable ready" TVs now are a crock. They're not truly cable ready if the Tivo tuning adjuster cannot be used. If you're not getting PPV/VOD, it's NOT cable ready.


I don't have a card slot, but I have one of those ATSC tuners that can pick up the cable channels 'in the clear'. I tried that for awhile, and hated it! The worst part is the lack of the program guide(even if it is the crappy Navigator guide). Not knowing what's currently on really sucks, especially when the channels are on weird xxx.xx numbers. Plus the only digital channels were the big four plus WUAB and WNEO. Any other cable channels were analog. Oh my god that looked horrible!!! 2 to 70 whatever was absolutely unwatchable.


Let's just say during that week of technical difficulties I was very, very happy when the cable guy showed up with an 8300HD!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14752027
> 
> 
> Why is it bull? Those "HD cable ready" TVs now are a crock. They're not truly cable ready if the Tivo tuning adjuster cannot be used. If you're not getting PPV/VOD, it's NOT cable ready.



It's bull because you shouldn't have to have a box, but because of SDV you will have to, unless you are just using basic cable.


Why is it that you are such a defender of what TW does? They limit the choices people should be able to have, and since in most areas we don't have a choice of provider I think it's unfair.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14752027
> 
> 
> I don't have a card slot, but I have one of those ATSC tuners that can pick up the cable channels 'in the clear'. I tried that for awhile, and hated it! The worst part is the lack of the program guide(even if it is the crappy Navigator guide). Not knowing what's currently on really sucks, especially when the channels are on weird xxx.xx numbers. Plus the only digital channels were the big four plus WUAB and WNEO. Any other cable channels were analog. Oh my god that looked horrible!!! 2 to 70 whatever was absolutely unwatchable.



With a TiVo HD and service you get a guide. But irregardless of that there is this magazine that we use to purchase called TV Guide. I haven't looked at it in years but I'll bet they provide all the info.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14752027
> 
> 
> Let's just say during that week of technical difficulties I was very, very happy when the cable guy showed up with an 8300HD!!



Yes, you're happy this week. Let's see how you are next week.










Hey man, I'm just glad you're still around. I was afraid that the thing with you and smarty - pants got you so p.o.'d that you decided to leave. We need you around here for your strange ideas and totally insane commentary.


----------



## ZManCartFan

Did a rescan of the QAM channels on Armstrong in Medina today, so I thought I would post the updated channels in case anybody is using the power of Google looking for this kind of thing. And Armstrong doesn't publish it themselves.




[As of 9/27/08]

82-1 ESPN

82-2 Fox News

82-3 CNBC

82-4 CMT

82-5 Travel

82-6 Comedy

82-7 Lifetime

82-8 AMC

82-9 HGTV

82-10 Discovery

82-11 FX

82-12 Bravo

83-1 ESPN2

83-2 MSNBC

83-3 CNN Headline News

83-4 MTV

83-5 USA

83-6 ABC Family

83-7 E!

83-8 A&E

83-9 Animal Planet

83-10 Nickelodeon

83-11 Spike

83-12 TruTV

84-1 Cartoon Network

84-2 CNN

84-3 The Weather Channel

84-4 VH1

84-5 TLC

84-6 History

84-7 TV Land

84-8 TNT

84-9 Food

84-10 TBS

84-11 WE TV

84-12 Sci-Fi

89-1 WKYC NBC

89-2 Fox Sports Net

89-4 Info

89-5 EWTN

89-6 WOAC Independent

89-7 Armstrong Info

89-8 TV Guide

89-9 Local Access (Medina 37)

89-11 Sports Time Ohio

90-1 WEWS ABC

90-2 WUAB MyTV

90-3 WJW Fox 8

90-4 WVIZ PBS

90-5 WNEO PBS

90-6 Inspiration

90-8 WOIO CBS

90-9 WQHS Univision

90-10 FitTV

90-11 ION

90-12 WBNX The CW

91-1 ShopNBC

91-2 (Unknown - showing infomercials the whole time)

91-3 Pentagon Channel

91-4 Home Shopping Network

91-5 C-Span

91-6 Disney

91-7 TCM

91-8 Nicktoons Network

91-9 QVC

91-10 (Armstrong Info?)

94-1 Local Access (Medina 36)

94-2 Shows No video input with a running timer but has audio that sounds like somebody's high school practice room

103-1 WJW Fox 8 (720p)

103-100 WEWS ABC 5 (720p)

104-1 WKYC-DT NBC (1080i)

104-2 NBC Weather Plus (480i)

104-3 WOIO CBS (1080i)



It's interesting that WGN is gone. I went back through the digital guide, and I noticed that it's gone from Armstrong completely. Guess that shows you how much I paid attention to WGN. Wonder when it left?


Also, Armstrong used to have a few other HD channels you could get every now and then (HDNet, etc.) in the 105 range, but they seem to be pretty well gone.


I also removed the PPV/VOD channel numbers from the above, but it appears they're still there.


----------



## nickdawg

Channel 5, I love you!!!! "Boston Legal" in syndication is currently being shown in HDTV on ABC5. Tonight's episode is the pilot episode that I never saw in HD. I actually had this episode on VHS from the original ABC airing but I taped over it by mistake earlier this year







. I got it going on the DVR now. Definitely keeping this one.


Did I forget to mention, thank you channel 5?


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14751067
> 
> 
> (and this won't get lost in a sea of cable talk),
> 
> - Trip



Don't count on it!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14754291
> 
> 
> Channel 5, I love you!!!! "Boston Legal" in syndication is currently being shown in HDTV on ABC5. Tonight's episode is the pilot episode that I never saw in HD. I actually had this episode on VHS from the original ABC airing but I taped over it by mistake earlier this year
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I got it going on the DVR now. Definitely keeping this one.
> 
> 
> Did I forget to mention, thank you channel 5?



Going off topic but if I recall correctly Alan's character is quite a bit different then it is today. I recall disliking him immensly.


Edited to add: You may have the first episode of Boston Legal but if I recall the real first episode was under the title of "The Practice." It was the only episode I ever watched of that show which is kind of amazing because I actually had Thanksgiving Dinner two years in a row with Dylan McDermott, the star of that show. I was dating someone who knew his then girlfriend's mother. I think he married her. I told him sorry, never saw the show and don't recognize him.







He said that's OK, it's better that way.


And just to drop in another little fact Dylan's girlfriend Shiva's mother was also an actress. A very famous one in Iran before the Shaw was booted out of there. She had to excape to get away from the Ayatolla (sp?) She has pictures on the wall of her on the set of her show, which as she described it was the equivalent of "I Love Lucy" in Iran. She was a very beautiful woman.


Dylan told me that the way he met Shiva was he saw her in a store and actually stocked her. Then he asked her out for coffee. He said he just knew she was the one.


I didn't know until recently that he had also dated to Julia Roberts.


Edited again to add: I thought I had heard he divorced her, and Wikipedia confirmed it. Apparently he was cheating on her.


Come to think of it he had "someplace to go" shortly after we had dinner.......


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/14754601
> 
> 
> Don't count on it!



You know when OTA and satellite people are talking I don't complain about it. I really don't even understand most of it but I know that this is a forum for discussion of local broadcast. We have just as much right to discuss our cable as anyone else, and we have a great deal of things that are currently going on.


----------



## JJkizak

My thumbs get tired switching channels on my uncle's Time Warner cable setup after about 1/2 hour because I cannot find anything I like to watch. And thats not including selecting other stuff. You can tell cable and satellite people right off because they have oversize thumbs.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14754955
> 
> 
> My thumbs get tired switching channels on my uncle's Time Warner cable setup after about 1/2 hour because I cannot find anything I like to watch. And thats not including selecting other stuff. You can tell cable and satellite people right off because they have oversize thumbs.
> 
> JJK



OK.........
























Hint: Try the guide.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/14754601
> 
> 
> Don't count on it!



I only mentioned it because I posted the same request here a few months ago and nobody saw it I don't think. This time, Inundated responded and offered to help, so I think I'm okay. =)


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14754997
> 
> 
> I only mentioned it because I posted the same request here a few months ago and nobody saw it I don't think. This time, Inundated responded and offered to help, so I think I'm okay. =)
> 
> 
> - Trip



Guilty as charged. When OTA subjects come up I usually just glance at it and click off.


But hey Trip, how about coming out to my house and setting me up with a cool antenna for my Cockatoo that can get channel 3?


Just kidding. Anyway he doesn't watch channel 3.


----------



## Trip in VA

I would if it wasn't so far! Believe me, I have reasons aside from digital TV to want to visit Cleveland.










I hate low-VHF as much as you do, and sympathize COMPLETELY with your pain with WKYC-DT.


I suffer with it as well, but on my only PBS station, operating digitally on channel 3. I live on PBS, so this is a bit of a problem.


And you're lucky--WKYC-DT moves to 17 next year (and with a respectable signal strength). My PBS wants channel 3 very badly because of the reduced power cost, and they're throwing money at a new omnidirectional antenna in the hope that it will fix the problem. When it still doesn't work, only then will they try for a UHF channel. So I'm probably going to be SOL for quite some time, and if somehow the GM deems their new antenna a success, I'll be SOL forever.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14755060
> 
> 
> And you're lucky--WKYC-DT moves to 17 next year (and with a respectable signal strength). My PBS wants channel 3 very badly because of the reduced power cost, and they're throwing money at a new omnidirectional antenna in the hope that it will fix the problem. When it still doesn't work, only then will they try for a UHF channel. So I'm probably going to be SOL for quite some time, and if somehow the GM deems their new antenna a success, I'll be SOL forever.
> 
> 
> - Trip




Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't WJW moving to VHF in the future? That means I may lose channel 8. That's the station he watches.


To be truthfull my wife puts it on channel 8. I guess she want to synch what we are watching in the morning. We probably will be moving it to WNEW if we lose the signal.


----------



## Trip in VA

Channel 8 shouldn't be too bad. They seem to want a decent amount of power, and I've seen upper-VHF work out to at least 30 miles with a set of rabbit ears used as a dipole held outside a car window at a rest stop.










- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14751289
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't get channel 3 at all, but Tyler (the bird) likes FOX 8 and the radio shack one I bought wasn't cutting it. I was lucky to get a 50 signal. With this one I'm getting in the green at 72.



My deepest sympathies go out to you. Must be really, really hard to find out your bird is republican!

























> Quote:
> Just kidding. Anyway he doesn't watch channel 3.



Maybe once WKYC moves to channel 17 you can bring him back to the real world and convert him to channel 3!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14755060
> 
> 
> I would if it wasn't so far! Believe me, I have reasons aside from digital TV to want to visit Cleveland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate low-VHF as much as you do, and sympathize COMPLETELY with your pain with WKYC-DT.
> 
> 
> I suffer with it as well, but on my only PBS station, operating digitally on channel 3. I live on PBS, so this is a bit of a problem.
> 
> 
> And you're lucky--WKYC-DT moves to 17 next year (and with a respectable signal strength). *My PBS wants channel 3 very badly because of the reduced power cost*, and they're throwing money at a new omnidirectional antenna in the hope that it will fix the problem. When it still doesn't work, only then will they try for a UHF channel. So I'm probably going to be SOL for quite some time, and if somehow the GM deems their new antenna a success, I'll be SOL forever.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Is your PBS owned by Raycom?
























That sounds exactly like what's happening here with channel 19, which is currently on VHF 10, operating at lower power, AND STAYING THERE!!! I believe it has something to do with a Canadian channel 10 that would interfere, so they cannot go full power. Even though stations are allowed to apply to switch channels, they won't. I think they like their situation, since WOIO is an incredibly cheap station. The kind that runs paid programming much of the weekend(and a few times in primetime








) and the last to get HD news.


Another thing that bothers me is WJW is moving back to 8? I was looking at the RabbitEars page(nice work







) and I see that WJW is supposed to move back to VHF 8. Seems they had a nice home on UHF 31. Even with a set of crappy rabbit ears I got for free(they consist of two sticks with 300 ohm leads) and I could get 5(15), 8(31), 43(28), 49(50), 55(30), 61(34, and 67(47). They came in well most of the time, although with a better, stronger antenna they'd be much better. I've never seen 3 or 25(obviously) and 19 was a hit or miss deal.


Looks like birdy might not get channel 8 anymore! Uh oh!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14757036
> 
> 
> Is your PBS owned by Raycom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds exactly like what's happening here with channel 19, which is currently on VHF 10, operating at lower power, AND STAYING THERE!!! I believe it has something to do with a Canadian channel 10 that would interfere, so they cannot go full power. Even though stations are allowed to apply to switch channels, they won't. I think they like their situation, since WOIO is an incredibly cheap station. The kind that runs paid programming much of the weekend(and a few times in primetime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and the last to get HD news.
> 
> 
> Another thing that bothers me is WJW is moving back to 8? I was looking at the RabbitEars page(nice work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and I see that WJW is supposed to move back to VHF 8. Seems they had a nice home on UHF 31. Even with a set of crappy rabbit ears I got for free(they consist of two sticks with 300 ohm leads) and I could get 5(15), 8(31), 43(28), 49(50), 55(30), 61(34, and 67(47). They came in well most of the time, although with a better, stronger antenna they'd be much better. I've never seen 3 or 25(obviously) and 19 was a hit or miss deal.
> 
> 
> Looks like birdy might not get channel 8 anymore! Uh oh!



I think you got it wrong nickdawg, I heard 19 is going to move to UHF 19 and FOX is the one who is moving to 8. At least that's what I thought I read but I could be mistaken. Anyway Trip says they got a good signal.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14757130
> 
> 
> I think you got it wrong nickdawg, I heard 19 is going to move to UHF 19 and FOX is the one who is moving to 8. At least that's what I thought I read but I could be mistaken. Anyway Trip says they got a good signal.



No. I see WJW moving to 8 and nothing for 19. If 19 was going to request a move, they would ask to go to channel 2!







They're cheap and the lower power, the better.


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, the bigger issue is that WOIO at this point could no longer successfully move back to channel 19 (due to WPXD-DT in Detroit wanting to relocate from 31 to 19). I think if they wanted to go UHF at this point, 31 or 32 would likely be under consideration, since that's about all that's left.


I do see that they've applied to boost power and raise their height on channel 10.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=woio 


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14757483
> 
> 
> Well, the bigger issue is that WOIO at this point could no longer successfully move back to channel 19 (due to WPXD-DT in Detroit wanting to relocate from 31 to 19). I think if they wanted to go UHF at this point, 31 or 32 would likely be under consideration, since that's about all that's left.
> 
> 
> I do see that they've applied to boost power and raise their height on channel 10.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=woio
> 
> 
> - Trip



Not enough for me to get a decent signal. I'm lucky my little box recognizes it's there.


I do still see they have that message still posted on 19.2.







What a waste of space.


----------



## nickdawg

Don't you mean 43.2? WUAB still has that powerpoint slide running where the Tube used to be? Wow, the Tube died around this time last year!!


What really _should_ be done is move that waste called "Weather Now" from 19-2 over to 43-2 so we can get a clear, un bandwidth raped CBS affiliate.


----------



## berenga

A question for those in the metropolitan Cleveland area who have a SONY DHG-HDD500 DVR with cablecard. I live in Chagrin Falls and I get my TVOSG schedule listings from local host WVIZ PBS 25. Does anyone know yet if the Digital CBS channel in the area has begun or plans to carry the TVGOS guide listings after February 2009? Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




nickdawg said:


> Don't you mean 43.2? WUAB still has that powerpoint slide running where the Tube used to be? Wow, the Tube died around this time last year!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's the one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/14757690
> 
> 
> A question for those in the metropolitan Cleveland area who have a SONY DHG-HDD500 DVR with cablecard. I live in Chagrin Falls and I get my TVOSG schedule listings from local host WVIZ PBS 25. Does anyone know yet if the Digital CBS channel in the area has begun or plans to carry the TVGOS guide listings after February 2009? Thanks.



You have a cablecard. That means you must have cable. Chagrin Falls, I would say TW. And you get your listings from WVIZ?










And what the heck is TVGOS?


Whatever it is, if it involves getting something from WOIO I wouldn't count on it. But somebody please tell me what this guy is talking about?


----------



## Trip in VA

TVGOS = TV Guide Onscreen Service. I have a page dedicated to it on my website. =)

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos 


I have no information about WOIO yet. Hopefully if Inundated sends me some good data from WOIO-DT, I'll be able to give an answer.


- Trip


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14757726
> 
> 
> You have a cablecard. That means you must have cable. Chagrin Falls, I would say TW. And you get your listings from WVIZ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what the heck is TVGOS?
> 
> 
> Whatever it is, if it involves getting something from WOIO I wouldn't count on it. But somebody please tell me what this guy is talking about?



TVGOS stands for the TV Guide On Screen which is is the free guide listings that the SONY Hi-Def DVR with cablecard uses and which is currently downloaded in my area from WVIZ. Obviously you don't have a clue, so is there

anyone out there that does have the same unit that can shed some light on this? Thanks.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14757755
> 
> 
> TVGOS = TV Guide Onscreen Service. I have a page dedicated to it on my website. =)
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos
> 
> 
> I have no information about WOIO yet. Hopefully if Inundated sends me some good data from WOIO-DT, I'll be able to give an answer.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thank you very much for the info. It's just that I am getting a little nervous as the February analog cut off looms close by and I would hate to have to trade my SONY HD DVR for a TW cable box if CBS doesn't take over from PBS, and I am not interested at all in a TIVO.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/14757866
> 
> 
> Thank you very much for the info. It's just that I am getting a little nervous as the February analog cut off looms close by and I would hate to have to trade my SONY HD DVR for a TW cable box if CBS doesn't take over from PBS, and I am not interested at all in a TIVO.



I have another question. That Sony DVR uses cable cards, right?


NE Ohio TWC is set to begin SDV on October 20. Will that box be capable of receiving SDV channels? The Tivo boxes will be able to get SDV with the help of a tuning adapter. You _might_ end up needing a TWC DVR.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14757891
> 
> 
> I have another question. That Sony DVR uses cable cards, right?
> 
> 
> NE Ohio TWC is set to begin SDV on October 20. Will that box be capable of receiving SDV channels? The Tivo boxes will be able to get SDV with the help of a tuning adapter. You _might_ end up needing a TWC DVR.



Yes. One cable card. I'll be shut out of any SDV channels, unless SONY implements a software upgrade between now and February 2009 so that I can

hook up the tuning adapter to the USB port on the back of the unit and access the SDV channels. I hope so. If not, I'll do without those channels until I make a decision about a TW cable box.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14757668
> 
> 
> What really _should_ be done is move that waste called "Weather Now" from 19-2 over to 43-2 so we can get a clear, un bandwidth raped CBS affiliate.



Now THAT idea is pure genius. Raycom would get to keep their WeatherNow advertising dollars, and we'd get back 100% pure CBS 1080i goodness. A win-win for everybody.


The only viewers affected would be the 2 people in the Cleveland metro area that actually watch WeatherNow over the air.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/14757948
> 
> 
> Yes. One cable card. I'll be shut out of any SDV channels, unless SONY implements a software upgrade between now and February 2009 so that I can
> 
> hook up the tuning adapter to the USB port on the back of the unit and access the SDV channels. I hope so. If not, I'll do without those channels until I make a decision about a TW cable box.



There are about 90 channels that are going SDV. I really wish someone who got a letter would post the list. Plus any new HD channels added after SDV will also be switched.


Somebody needs to post the list/letter!!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14758001
> 
> 
> Now THAT idea is pure genius. Raycom would get to keep their WeatherNow advertising dollars, and we'd get back 100% pure CBS 1080i goodness. A win-win for everybody.
> 
> 
> The only viewers affected would be the 2 people in the Cleveland metro area that actually watch WeatherNow over the air.



Those two viewers would just have to rescan and pick it up on 43.2. A minor, tiny inconvenience to give us ALL better PQ.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14758068
> 
> 
> There are about 90 channels that are going SDV. I really wish someone who got a letter would post the list. Plus any new HD channels added after SDV will also be switched.



When did it go to 90. Last I heard it was 50. nickdawg, you're at it again.


lol you and I are so much alike. I have a tendency to raise the number as well. And I still haven't got my letter.


Patience, nickdawg.

















Yeah, I know patience my a##.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14758817
> 
> 
> When did it go to 90. Last I heard it was 50. nickdawg, you're at it again.
> 
> 
> lol you and I are so much alike. I have a tendency to raise the number as well. And I still haven't got my letter.
> 
> 
> Patience, nickdawg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know patience my a##.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14703070
> 
> 
> Breaking News for NEO TWC customers:
> 
> 
> Got a letter in the mail today from TWC saying that SDV starts on
> 
> Monday 10/20/08. Tuning Adapters will be offered later this year.
> 
> It is currently believed that they will be offered at no charge.
> 
> 
> Ben Music





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/14703180
> 
> 
> Included with the letter is a list of about *80* ch's that will
> 
> be delivered using SDV. The letter states that they are
> 
> lesser viewed channels. The good thing about this is now
> 
> there will be more room for lots of new HD channels.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



See, it is 80. Almost 90.


----------



## JJkizak

One wonders if the weather was transferred from 19.2 to 43.2 how long it would be before something else was put in place on 19.2 for those two viewers?

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14757755
> 
> 
> I have no information about WOIO yet. Hopefully if Inundated sends me some good data from WOIO-DT, I'll be able to give an answer.



I'll get back to you soon, as soon as I figure it all out and feel better.


Just so you know, though, I CAN get WOIO-DT on my CECB in the kitchen...it's still problematic, and with the USB tuner I might have to get in the car and drive north with my laptop...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14760449
> 
> 
> One wonders if the weather was transferred from 19.2 to 43.2 how long it would be before something else was put in place on 19.2 for those two viewers?



Exactly.


They're not gonna move "WeatherNow" from 19.2 to 43.2 even IF they had no other plans for 43.2. It's tied to their "19 Action News" branding, and they'll keep it on the main channel.


I'm surprised 43.2 hasn't lit up with Retro TV (.2?) or something. They must be anticipating something, or they wouldn't have kept the slide up this long...or maybe it's just Raycom being Raycom.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14761215
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> 
> They're not gonna move "WeatherNow" from 19.2 to 43.2 even IF they had no other plans for 43.2. It's tied to their "19 Action News" branding, and they'll keep it on the main channel.
> 
> 
> I'm surprised 43.2 hasn't lit up with Retro TV (.2?) or something. They must be anticipating something, or they wouldn't have kept the slide up this long...or maybe it's just Raycom being Raycom.



Raycom owns 43 too?


I thought the same, what a waste of bandwidth... to be broadcasting that message for so long. Too bad, it was like watching Friday Night Videos back in the '80's.







Better yet untill a replacement for the Tube, simulcast 19's weather now on 43-2.


----------



## Trip in VA

If MyNetworkTV operates the same way that Fox does (I suspect they do but have never heard for certain), they use the splicer to do HD from the network. In that sense, there is no "wasted" bandwidth because the station cannot tamper with network programming--the space is reserved whether there's a subchannel or not. That said, it'd be much more efficient to move the weather subchannel over to 43-2 and give the bandwidth back to 19-1 by killing off 19-2. Even if they won't do it.


I can't speak for any sports in HD that WUAB may or may not air.


- Trip


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14757483
> 
> 
> Well, the bigger issue is that WOIO at this point could no longer successfully move back to channel 19 (due to WPXD-DT in Detroit wanting to relocate from 31 to 19). I think if they wanted to go UHF at this point, 31 or 32 would likely be under consideration, since that's about all that's left.
> 
> 
> I do see that they've applied to boost power and raise their height on channel 10.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=woio
> 
> 
> - Trip



31 or 32 is all that's left? & yet they are loping off 52-69 to be sold over to the cell phone industry??!! What's going to happen in real markets like NY, Boston, LA, Atlanta & Houston?... NY claims nearly 25 indvidual DTV channels.


I keep seeing the commercial that we will have increased channels with DTV, I think I'll be getting a few less (although they will be clearer).


Nice link


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14763172
> 
> 
> If MyNetworkTV operates the same way that Fox does (I suspect they do but have never heard for certain), they use the splicer to do HD from the network. In that sense, there is no "wasted" bandwidth because the station cannot tamper with network programming--the space is reserved whether there's a subchannel or not. That said, it'd be much more efficient to move the weather subchannel over to 43-2 and give the bandwidth back to 19-1 by killing off 19-2. Even if they won't do it.
> 
> 
> I can't speak for any sports in HD that WUAB may or may not air.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I'm not sure how MNTV works. Since it is a FOX property, they could be using the same splicer system, although MNTV does not insert a 'local bug' at the splicer. Or even a network bug. WUAB is 720p so it would be the perfect candidate for a subchannel. Much better than a 1080i CBS station. I'll see what I can find out on this one.


----------



## schandorsky

Starting today I no longer receive the Big Ten Network HD. I have the HD package. I wonder if they put it in another package? Does anyone know what is going on?


----------



## black88mx6

TW - Cable SDV Testing in OCT


The real question is what channels will be put over SDV. For those of us with multiple cable cards, what channels will only be avaiable with a cable box?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/14763655
> 
> 
> TW - Cable SDV Testing in OCT
> 
> 
> The real question is what channels will be put over SDV. For those of us with multiple cable cards, what channels will only be avaiable with a cable box?



Did they send out a letter? Some other readers here had letters from TWC mailed last week. I'd really like to see a list too, but the TWC website says nothing of SDV. But they are supposed to start SDV on October 20.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14763263
> 
> 
> 31 or 32 is all that's left? & yet they are loping off 52-69 to be sold over to the cell phone industry??!! What's going to happen in real markets like NY, Boston, LA, Atlanta & Houston?... NY claims nearly 25 indvidual DTV channels.
> 
> 
> I keep seeing the commercial that we will have increased channels with DTV, I think I'll be getting a few less (although they will be clearer).
> 
> 
> Nice link



Thanks. =)


If the market's full, it's full. Simple as that. Some of them are.


Actually, the more I think about it, I think 32 is out because of an analog in Windsor, ON. So that leaves 31. Here's an automated search from my site which shows available channels from the WOIO tower site:

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...gitude=-81.695 


Those are frequencies that would meet the FCC's minimum spacing requirements as laid out in 73.623. That says nothing of complex interference surveys, etc.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14763487
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how MNTV works. Since it is a FOX property, they could be using the same splicer system, although MNTV does not insert a 'local bug' at the splicer. Or even a network bug. WUAB is 720p so it would be the perfect candidate for a subchannel. Much better than a 1080i CBS station. I'll see what I can find out on this one.



Thanks. =)


- Trip


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14764162
> 
> 
> Actually, the more I think about it, I think 32 is out because of an analog in Windsor, ON. So that leaves 31.



Hate to quote myself but I investigated this some more and discovered that 31 is not the only available frequency. If WDLI-DT is granted their move from 39 to 49, that would open the door for a shuffle of sorts. WOAC-DT 47 could be paid off to relocate to channel 39 (given how small their coverage area is anyway) and then 47 would be open in Cleveland. So theoretically, if upper-VHF doesn't work out for WOIO and WJW, both would be able to find homes after the transition.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14763558
> 
> 
> Starting today I no longer receive the Big Ten Network HD. I have the HD package. I wonder if they put it in another package? Does anyone know what is going on?



I have TiVo and it's coming in just fine. But then again I have not received a letter about SDV on 10/20. Which won't happen anyway.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14763558
> 
> 
> Starting today I no longer receive the Big Ten Network HD. I have the HD package. I wonder if they put it in another package? Does anyone know what is going on?



Do you use cable card, Tivo or TWC equipment?


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14764943
> 
> 
> Do you use cable card, Tivo or TWC equipment?



Just a cablecard.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14765029
> 
> 
> Just a cablecard.



BTN HD still comes in on my SA box. I'd guess it's a cable card thing, since most(if not all) the HD channels other than local broadcast will be SDV. Usually any new added channels and existing ones become SDV after it's put in place.


A letter from TWC should be coming soon. I think hookbill didn't get one either.


As of right now, I still see "SDV Not Enabled" on the diagnostics channel.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14764162
> 
> 
> Thanks. =)
> 
> 
> If the market's full, it's full. Simple as that. Some of them are.
> 
> 
> Actually, the more I think about it, I think 32 is out because of an analog in Windsor, ON. So that leaves 31. Here's an automated search from my site which shows available channels from the WOIO tower site:
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...gitude=-81.695
> 
> 
> Those are frequencies that would meet the FCC's minimum spacing requirements as laid out in 73.623. That says nothing of complex interference surveys, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. =)
> 
> 
> - Trip



Which would bring us to the fate of WRAP 32 in Cleveland? Since they are a low power, I was speculating that they would be continuing to broadcast after February. I also used to get in quite regularily a CITY affiliate here on 31 that likely was coming in somewhere around London Ontario.


I'm thinking that adjacent channels are not too much of a problem with digital over analog, since 30 (WBNX) does not interfere with 31 (WJW)?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14764368
> 
> 
> Hate to quote myself but I investigated this some more and discovered that 31 is not the only available frequency. If WDLI-DT is granted their move from 39 to 49, that would open the door for a shuffle of sorts. WOAC-DT 47 could be paid off to relocate to channel 39 (given how small their coverage area is anyway) and then 47 would be open in Cleveland. So theoretically, if upper-VHF doesn't work out for WOIO and WJW, both would be able to find homes after the transition.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Looking at the Rabbit ears chart, I also see that 14 is licensed in Cleveland (??) (LM)???


Also 65 (WXOX) Cleveland is slated to increase power after February to relocate to 44 DT with a power increase. Id provide links on this but I'm on dialup, & more than 2 browser windows crashes me.










Fate of LP 53 & 35 out of Cleveland? I get 53 out here, but no 35.


----------



## nickdawg

Wait a minute, there's a channel 32 and a channel 65???


----------



## Trip in VA

LM is Land Mobile. That is, public safety radios. 15 is also reserved for that purpose, so I have no idea how WEWS-DT ended up there.


Realize that this list only takes into account full-power and Class A stations. Those are the only ones that matter. If a full-power station wants to sign on and a low-power is in the way, the low-power station has to move. They are also not bound by the same spacing rules, so they can operate on channel 44 as long as they don't cause interference to any other full-powered facility.


As for adjacent channels, they don't matter in digital so long as they're co-located. You could have 30 and 31 co-located at Parma, but if 30 was transmitting from Akron where WVPX is, for instance, that wouldn't work.


- Trip


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14758068
> 
> 
> I really wish someone who got a letter would post the list.



Since you asked nicely....









Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/08


1 Movieloft

185 Access TV

186 Shopping

187 Cable Response TV

188 Gems TV

189 America's Auction Network

190 Hollywood Celebrity Products

191 Celebrity Shopping

192 TV Superstore

193 The Jewelry Channel

194 Shoping

281 Sundance

282 Flix

290 Encore

291 Encore Love

292 Encore Mysteries

293 Encore Drama

294 Encore WAM!

295 Encore Westerns

296 Encore Action

319 FCS Atlantic

320 FCS Central

321 FCS Pacific

322 College Sports TV

324 NHL Network

325 NBA TV

327 Tennis Channel

328 Fuel TV

329 G4

330 Outdoor Channel

350 CNN

351 Headline News

352 Fox News

354 MSNBC

355 CNBC

370 Weather Channel

385 EWTN

399 TWC Infomercials

435 STOHD

436 FSN HD

470 Universal HD

471 HDNet

472 HDNet Movies

473 Mojo

610 HBO W

611 HBO2 W

612 HBO Signature W

613 HBO Family W

614 HBO Comedy W

615 HBO Zone W

710 HD PPV Events

741-754 NHL Center Ice/MLB

761-770 NBA/MLS Sport Packages

781-786 ESPN GamePlan / Full Court

801 GalaVision

805 mun2

806 Canal Sur

807 Cnn en Espanol

808 History en Espanol

809 Discover en Espanol

810 La Familia

811 Toon Disney en Espanol

812 Boomerang en Espanol

813 ESPN Deportes

814 Fox Sports en Espanol

815 MTV Tr3s

816 CineLatino

850 International MOD

851 ART Arabic

852 RAI International

853 TV Asia

854 DW TV

855 Zee TV

857 Filipino Channel

858 TV5Monde

859 TV Japan

860 TV Russia


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14767138
> 
> 
> Since you asked nicely....



Thank You!!
























It looks like SDV will be no big deal for Tivo users without the tuning adjusters. Noting of importance is being moved to SDV. The only ones I can think of are MSNBC, CNN, Headline News and Weather Channel, all of which are available in analog anyway.


The big hit will come when TWC adds new HD channels, which most likely will be SDV.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14766099
> 
> 
> LM is Land Mobile. That is, public safety radios. 15 is also reserved for that purpose, so I have no idea how WEWS-DT ended up there.
> 
> - Trip



The UHF TV allocations to public safety is in only of a few of the largest cities (e.g., NYC & LA, DC, maybe Chicago off the top of my head.) It does not affect Cleveland. (Because it borders Canada, Cleveland area has access to the 420-430 MHz block for public safety which is used by many suburban agencies.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14767796
> 
> 
> The UHF TV allocations to public safety is in only of a few of the largest cities (e.g., NYC & LA, DC, maybe Chicago off the top of my head.) It does not affect Cleveland. (Because it borders Canada, Cleveland area has access to the 420-430 MHz block for public safety which is used by many suburban agencies.



Interesting. I wonder why the FCC would leave those channels reserved if they're not being used then. (See half-way down the linked document)

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr73.623.htm 


Though that does explain why they were ignored in both Cleveland and Detroit. (WKBD-DT 14 in Detroit) Learn something new every day. =)


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14767182
> 
> 
> Thank You!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like SDV will be no big deal for Tivo users without the tuning adjusters. Noting of importance is being moved to SDV. The only ones I can think of are MSNBC, CNN, Headline News and Weather Channel, all of which are available in analog anyway.
> 
> 
> The big hit will come when TWC adds new HD channels, which most likely will be SDV.



I still don't see how they can use SDV in our area if they still have people with SARA software. So I'll turn to my good buddy along time forum friend Inundated.


Inundated, I know you still have the SA 8000. Have you ever looked at the diagnostic screen to see what firmware you're running? And do you see anything else about SDV in there? Have you got a letter yet?


Anybody in this area on SARA, have you been switched to Navigator?


I still will bet it doesn't happen for those who got the letter on 10/20. Any takers, please pm me.










This bothers me a bit:
*435 STOHD*

436 FSN HD
*470 Universal HD

471 HDNet

472 HDNet Movies

473 Mojo*


Now STO I'm OK with so long as we have the tuner adapter by April. If SDV is actually available in my area by then.


The other 4 channels I pay for. I've been thinking about getting rid of them anyway since I never watch them. Maybe I'll do that today.


Another thing I find odd is just like in Austin none of the Showtime channels are affected. You would think they would do the same thing with the secondary, Cinemax, and Movie Channels.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14767796
> 
> 
> The UHF TV allocations to public safety is in only of a few of the largest cities (e.g., NYC & LA, DC, maybe Chicago off the top of my head.) It does not affect Cleveland. (Because it borders Canada, Cleveland area has access to the 420-430 MHz block for public safety which is used by many suburban agencies.



I remember something like that when I bought my 440 rig out west, I think If I would have purchased it in Ohio, there would have been certain transmit frequencies blocked...... or something like that.


----------



## Bismarck440

Speaking of Ham Radio...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14751065
> 
> 
> With all the discussin about RF and towers lately, I got to wondering how many of our members are ham radio operators. Which got me to wondering if anyone else is going to the Cleveland hamfest tomorrow.



How did the fest pan out??? Greasy high chlorestrol breakfast at 4am??


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14768295
> 
> 
> Speaking of Ham Radio...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did the fest pan out??? Greasy high chlorestrol breakfast at 4am??




Well, there was no ham, although there was a kielbasi vendor there, so I guess they had grease. I wouldn't know for sure, being a vegetarian.










It was fun though. I go for the flea market as well as the chance to see friends that I usually don't bump into exccept at these kinds of events. As a group, they are some of the most polite, intelligent and humblest people out there. And of courese it's fun to talk tech with them.


I didn't score any major bargains at the fest, just some electronic odds and ends that you used to be able to find at Radio Shack, Lafayette or Olson's.


The main thing is that these gatherings help to keep the communications hobby alive. These are the kinds of people who you'll find behind the scenes at radio & tv stations as well as other related industries. They're the folks working in the bowels of their facilities, keeping their stations on the air.


My kind of folks.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14768170
> 
> 
> I still will bet it doesn't happen for those who got the letter on 10/20. Any takers, please pm me.



Hmm, do I hear another train?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14768170
> 
> 
> Inundated, I know you still have the SA 8000. Have you ever looked at the diagnostic screen to see what firmware you're running? And do you see anything else about SDV in there? Have you got a letter yet?



I'll have to go upstairs, remember how to get into the diagnostic screen, and check.


But I'd already posted that I saw three SDV-related screens the last time I checked. I was under the impression that SARA had no problem with SDV, from that and what I've read in other threads.


BTW, Trip? I have the TSReader exports done, except for the signal problem children (WKYC-DT, WVIZ-DT and WOIO-DT - the latter I'll just have to fiddle with an antenna, since the one here in this room has broken VHF aerials...I should be able to take the laptop into the kitchen and get it there on the other antenna I get it with now).


Oh, and of course, no WMFD-DT, because I'm nowhere near Mansfield.


Just for everyone who cares...it looks like that computer slide telling us "The Tube" is gone from WUAB-DT 43.2 is taking up about 2.2Mbps of bandwidth.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14765259
> 
> 
> BTN HD still comes in on my SA box. I'd guess it's a cable card thing, since most(if not all) the HD channels other than local broadcast will be SDV. Usually any new added channels and existing ones become SDV after it's put in place.
> 
> 
> A letter from TWC should be coming soon. I think hookbill didn't get one either.
> 
> 
> As of right now, I still see "SDV Not Enabled" on the diagnostics channel.



I called TW yesterday and told them I no longer receiving the BTN HD, after talking to four different people they decided to send a tech to my home. After about 30 minutes they figured out there was something missing from the data stream and 15 minutes later I had the BTN HD back on and running.


----------



## Inundated

As it turns out, the only thing getting me WOIO-DT on non-amplified rabbit ears in the kitchen is...the Zenith/Insignia CECB.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14771317
> 
> 
> Hmm, do I hear another train?



Ummmm...you wern't exactly right the last time. Train arrived very late in some areas. Back at ya!


----------



## Inundated

The SARA version on my SA8000HD is:

1.89.24.1


It has SDV screens, though it says "SDV Client - Authorized: No" and "SDV Channels: 0". I suspect it may be just because they haven't turned it on yet.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14755082
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't WJW moving to VHF in the future? That means I may lose channel 8. That's the station he watches.
> 
> 
> To be truthfull my wife puts it on channel 8. I guess she want to synch what we are watching in the morning. We probably will be moving it to WNEW if we lose the signal.



The birds will have nothing to worry about. WJW-DT's move to rf ch 8 will actually be an improvement. Unlike low band VHF high band VHF is actually thebest place to be for digital TV, that is unless you are on a channel with a Canadian analog signal that is not going away in Feb. '09.


WJW-DT on 8 will be full power, unlike WOIO-DT which will still have to protect CFPL-TV for years to come.


The current analog ch 8 has a terrific signal, my Aunt in PA (by Pymatuning) gets it OTA better than the Erie stations that she is supposed to get.


----------



## Inundated

This article would seem to confirm that SARA, Time Warner Cable and SDV are at least a theoretical match:

http://www.lightreading.com/document...43649&site=cdn 



> Quote:
> BigBand has systems already deployed or initiated for deployment with six large cable operators
> 
> (snip)
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable Inc. (NYSE: TWC - message board) and Cablevision have also been announced, and speculation is that Videotron Telecom Ltd. is also in the mix. Comcast Corp. (Nasdaq: CMCSA, CMCSK) has approved BigBand as an SDV vendor but has not publicly committed to any deployments with the vendor.
> 
> 
> BigBand also lays claim to having deployments in place in cable systems based on both the Scientific Atlanta and Motorola Inc. (NYSE: MOT - message board) digital cable environments, and multiple interactive guide implementations, including Aptiv (part of Gemstar-TV Guide), and *SA's SARA (Scientific Atlanta Resident Application) guide*.


----------



## Michael P 2341

 Ohio Media Blog is reporting that WVIZ is moving to the WKYC tower site earlier than originally planned. There will be a temporary 10KW transmitter on an existing tower (I presume that would be the shorter back-up tower, but that is higher than what they have now.


It seems that the reason for the quick move to the new site is the sale of the old WVIZ studio buiding on Brookpark Rd.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14772356
> 
> 
> This article would seem to confirm that SARA, Time Warner Cable and SDV are at least a theoretical match:
> 
> http://www.lightreading.com/document...43649&site=cdn



Well, that certainly would explain the non conversion to Navigator. Unfortunately for me I'll lose STO for a bit in HD. But then again I never look at it unless I'm watching the Tribe. Always good to keep an eye out for future prospects.










Still no letter as of yet however. I did cancel the premium HD tier today since I never look at it. The rep I talked to told me they had a "two for one" special, HBO and Cinemax which D* use to give all the time. I expressed an interest then she told me "for six months" and I said there's the gimmick.


I'll turn HBO back on when Big Love comes around. I still got a whole season of Dexter I purchased at Amazon.Com.


One of the things that is cool about TiVo and Amazon Unbox is you can store it with them and download on an as need basis. Of course if you don't have TiVo you can download to computer. The downside is it isn't in HD.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14772571
> 
> Ohio Media Blog is reporting that WVIZ is moving to the WKYC tower site earlier than originally planned. There will be a temporary 10KW transmitter on an existing tower (I presume that would be the shorter back-up tower, but that is higher than what they have now.
> 
> 
> It seems that the reason for the quick move to the new site is the sale of the old WVIZ studio buiding on Brookpark Rd.



Looks like sometime in November this may happen (???)


10KW... still may not see this till August.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14771607
> 
> 
> As it turns out, the only thing getting me WOIO-DT on non-amplified rabbit ears in the kitchen is...the Zenith/Insignia CECB.




The Zenith 901 seems to be the best STB, I have a coupon expiring tomorrow & am debating on which other box to use with the VCR. Other choices seem to only be the Apx DT250, or the Wal Mart Magnavox, which I previously had & took back. Rather have a second Zenith but since I don't want the remotes confusing each other, I'll go with a diffrent brand.


Speaking of which am I better to use a 4 way splitter for this operation? I am splitting to a TV, an FM reciever, & 2 STB's, or would I be better off doing this with 3 2 way splitters (which I already have?)... I'm assuming the losses would be the same here?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14766034
> 
> 
> Wait a minute, there's a channel 32 and a channel 65???



That is correct... 32 is in Downtown Cleveland by the Science Center, 65 & 53 are at the farm.


Considering the power used I get them out here in color & watchable but a bit snowy most of the time.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14771301
> 
> 
> Well, there was no ham, although there was a kielbasi vendor there, so I guess they had grease. I wouldn't know for sure, being a vegetarian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was fun though. I go for the flea market as well as the chance to see friends that I usually don't bump into exccept at these kinds of events. As a group, they are some of the most polite, intelligent and humblest people out there. And of courese it's fun to talk tech with them.
> 
> 
> I didn't score any major bargains at the fest, just some electronic odds and ends that you used to be able to find at Radio Shack, Lafayette or Olson's.
> 
> 
> The main thing is that these gatherings help to keep the communications hobby alive. These are the kinds of people who you'll find behind the scenes at radio & tv stations as well as other related industries. They're the folks working in the bowels of their facilities, keeping their stations on the air.
> 
> 
> My kind of folks.



The general senerao I seen was meet up with friends for greasy breakfasts at 4am, hang out at the door for early admittance & snatch up all deals by 6am...







I like to sleep in myself, so when I get there at 9 or 10 it's closing down







... I guess the fox hunts were a bit fun.


I only picked up oddball tools, connectors, & coax there myself.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14771793
> 
> 
> Ummmm...you wern't exactly right the last time. Train arrived very late in some areas. Back at ya!



I don't know, the train came through Akron on time last time around...


----------



## hookbill

Hey guys, I'm not getting the local converted digital channels. I can get them in HD but not at their regular locations, in my area 4 WOIO 5 WEWS 6 WUAB and 8 WJW. I have a grey screen.


I record some court shows on WUAB and WJW during the day to save on disk space. Can someone else with a box check and see what they have going on? If it's a cable card thing I'll call my head end person. All other digital channels are fine.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14768044
> 
> 
> Interesting. I wonder why the FCC would leave those channels reserved if they're not being used then. (See half-way down the linked document)
> 
> http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr73.623.htm
> 
> 
> Though that does explain why they were ignored in both Cleveland and Detroit. (WKBD-DT 14 in Detroit) Learn something new every day. =)
> 
> 
> - Trip



Look at 90.303. For some reason 15 & 16 are allocated but not assignable in the Cleveland or Detroit areas (probably due to Canadian coordination issues.)


----------



## Trip in VA

That's interesting. I think that's a direct consequence of WEWS-DT on 15 and WKBD-DT on 14. Considering it references WNEP, and the channel 16 reservation has only been made within the last two years, that would make sense.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill

If anybody saw my request to check cable channels that were digitally uploaded, please disregard that. It seemed to be a cable card issue and I managed to fix it. It was only happening to one of my TiVo's and I think it was just one card.


As I told you I cancelled the "premium" HD tier. Apparently Universal HD is no longer a part of that tier as I'm still receiving that. So for your 5 bucks you get HDnet, HDnetmovies, and Mojo.


Thanks, but no thanks.


Just thought I would let you know.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14776138
> 
> 
> If anybody saw my request to check cable channels that were digitally uploaded, please disregard that. It seemed to be a cable card issue and I managed to fix it. It was only happening to one of my TiVo's and I think it was just one card.
> 
> 
> As I told you I cancelled the "premium" HD tier. Apparently Universal HD is no longer a part of that tier as I'm still receiving that. So for your 5 bucks you get HDnet, HDnetmovies, and Mojo.
> 
> 
> Thanks, but no thanks.
> 
> 
> Just thought I would let you know.



It'll go away soon. I was getting Universal HD until about last week. After the Olympics ended and they nuked USA HD, they left Universal HD on "in the clear". Just noticed it is gone yesterday, along with a few other channels





















. It seems TWC is taking channels away and putting them in some $5 extra tier. Stuff like DIY, Fine Living and some of the kids channels.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14773460
> 
> 
> I don't know, the train came through Akron on time last time around...



Right. And it's only going to be passing through those cities that received notices, which is not necessarily everywhere on the first pass. If you didn't get a notice, I'm guessing







that you won't be affected this time.


As always my information is offered without warranty. Your actual milage may vary. Void where prohibited. Close cover before striking.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14777248
> 
> 
> It'll go away soon. I was getting Universal HD until about last week. After the Olympics ended and they nuked USA HD, they left Universal HD on "in the clear". Just noticed it is gone yesterday, along with a few other channels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It seems TWC is taking channels away and putting them in some $5 extra tier. Stuff like DIY, Fine Living and some of the kids channels.



I really could care less. I still don't watch Universal I was just checking to make sure they removed the tier. Seems strange that they would leave a channel and then remove it later, but this is TW we are talking about.


And what they do with the digital channels, moving those to the upper tier is just them ripping people off again. Fortunately the only digital channel I look at is BBC America.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14779451
> 
> 
> Right. And it's only going to be passing through those cities that received notices, which is not necessarily everywhere on the first pass. If you didn't get a notice, I'm guessing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that you won't be affected this time.
> 
> 
> As always my information is offered without warranty. Your actual milage may vary. Void where prohibited. Close cover before striking.



I didn't get a notice, I do not have a Tivo or a cable card. However, mnowlin, from Cuyahoga Falls(Akron System) did. Methinks the train will make a stop at the Dawg house in Akron...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14780648
> 
> 
> I didn't get a notice, I do not have a Tivo or a cable card. However, mnowlin, from Cuyahoga Falls(Akron System) did. Methinks the train will make a stop at the Dawg house in Akron...



I don't understand what the big deal is. Even if they start SDV that doesn't meant they will start adding HD channels left and right. You have to keep things in perspective, we're talking Time Warner here.


Well, it wouldn't matter if it was Time Warner, Adelphia, Comcast, they all are evil. And when they do start adding HD channels are they going to put them on their upper tier? I can't believe they will continue to offer 4 stations for that extra 5 bucks.


I had a crummy day at work today. Everything sucks.


I hope you're dreams come true nickdawg. Seriously.


----------



## gavram

I'm getting ready to buy my first HD TV (Samsung LN52A750) and am researching where to get the best HD programming. I took a look at the picture quality of Time Warner's HD locals on a new 46" Sony LCD and was disappointed. I also wasn't a big fan of the 8300HDC DVR...but I'm used to Tivo so I'm a bit jaded. My question is whether the locals look any better on Dish or DirecTV than on TWC. I'm leaning towards Dish because of the better DVR but picture quality is the main concern.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14780932
> 
> 
> I don't understand what the big deal is. Even if they start SDV that doesn't meant they will start adding HD channels left and right. You have to keep things in perspective, we're talking Time Warner here.
> 
> 
> Well, it wouldn't matter if it was Time Warner, Adelphia, Comcast, they all are evil. And when they do start adding HD channels are they going to put them on their upper tier? I can't believe they will continue to offer 4 stations for that extra 5 bucks.
> 
> 
> I had a crummy day at work today. Everything sucks.
> 
> 
> I hope you're dreams come true nickdawg. Seriously.



When I had the TW service guy at my home I ask him about SDV and what they were going to do with the additional bandwidth. He wouldn't admit to anything, but he said their phone service was very popular.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14780932
> 
> 
> And when they do start adding HD channels are they going to put them on their upper tier? I can't believe they will continue to offer 4 stations for that extra 5 bucks.



I can. Before UHD, the extra ripoff tier consisted of INHD, HDNET and HD NET Movies. And it was the same $6. Now there are rumors that MOJO HD will be going away, which will again leave three channel on the HD tier.


These new HD channels should NOT be on any extra tier, if they are channels we already get on digital cable(like USA HD, FX HD, CNN HD, National Geographic HD, A&E HD, ESPNU HD, ESPN News HD).


----------



## burgher




gavram said:


> My question is whether the locals look any better on Dish or DirecTV than on TWC.
> 
> 
> 
> I get digital locals OTA as well as on D*(H20) and despite all the arguments over compression and such I find no discernible difference between the two. I'm viewing on a 50" Sony SXRD from a distance of 8'. BTW- You've come to the right place if you want opinions from cable customers!!!


----------



## ErieMarty

any inside information on when and what new HD Channels will be added to TW System ?


I see Channels mentioned just not sure if those are wishfull thinking or someone has heard something legit ??


I hate to say it but i would think some of the new channels will be added to the Pay HD Tier to give customers more of a reason to pay for it..


If I do that..I will just drop something else I am paying for..like Showtime or HBO..


But lets add some more HD Channels..even if I have to pay the $5.00 to get them at least as an owner of a HD TV I have more options then I do now


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14783568
> 
> 
> any inside information on when and what new HD Channels will be added to TW System ?



ErieMarty, I notice just about every time you post you ask the same question. "Does anybody have any inside information...etc."


I understand why you ask but if anybody did they would post it. TW keeps that info very quiet and unless you work there or know someone who knows the right person that works there, that's the only way.


Now I have a contact in headend and she won't tell me anything. I believe she honestly doesn't know.


And as I said before the arrival of SDV does not mean an on slot of HD.


It doesn't hurt to ask, but I doubt you will get anything but rumors.


----------



## terryfoster

It could be helpful to look at other TWC markets to see what channels they have. There's a good chance that if they have channels you don't, that those will be the ones they'll eventually add. IIRC TWC has national agreements for some of the HD channels, but I think it's up to the local market to determine if they're going to add them or not. If they're making room, it's possible the local market may decide to start carrying some of the additional channels. Now, that being said, they may not add any channels until the entire NEO market can add these channels.


As hook said, you're not likely to get a good or straight answer out of anyone at TWC.


----------



## ErieMarty

I am just a frustrated owner of a HD TV who still has Time Warner cable..and just want more options for my HD Viewing..


Sorry for asking the same question over and over again.


Just wish they would throw us out some kind of bone .. like by the end of the year we expect to add another 15 to 20 HD channels to what we have now..


just something.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14784138
> 
> 
> I am just a frustrated owner of a HD TV who still has Time Warner cable..and just want more options for my HD Viewing..
> 
> 
> Sorry for asking the same question over and over again.
> 
> 
> Just wish they would throw us out some kind of bone .. like by the end of the year we expect to add another 15 to 20 HD channels to what we have now..
> 
> 
> just something.....



First, I'm glad that you were not offended by what I said. Right now I'm going through some tough stuff and I don't want other people angry at me.


I've said it before, if I had the option I would have dumped TW for television ages ago. They do provide good internet. Have you looked at other options?


I'm just stuck with them, and I'm fed up with them. I never met a cable company I liked. Back before Rupert took over D* I had to get my D-TiVo from Pegasus, and they were as bad as a cable company.


Wouldn't it be nice if they asked us what channels in HD we would like? Send an email, and ask us. How hard can that be? But no, they just give us what they want and probably because they can get them cheap. Trust me when it comes to TW, cost is the number 1 issue. Customers are secondary.


----------



## Andrew K

Does anyone know what will happen to the low powered OTAs after February? There are some channels that haven't applied for low power digital channels yet, such as WAOH-29 and W35AX-35.


It looks like channel 53 (Daystar) has a construction permit to use channel 7... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1182451.html 


WRAP-32 has a construction permit for use of channel 40


WXOX-65 has an application for use of channel 44... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...TX1090442.html


----------



## terryfoster

LP stations will continue to broadcast analog stations after the digital transition. Our local station seems quite upset about the lack of education on the topic and how some converter boxes are ATSC only.


See this article I just happened across today for our local LP stations:
http://www.wbqc.com/dtv.htm


----------



## Inundated

The "general entertainment" LPs around here - 35/29 in Akron/Cleveland, 52/29 in Canton - have no digital plans filed with the FCC right now. They'll presumably stay in analog after the full-power transition.


45/49 has an analog 58 translator in Youngstown. 58 has a digital CP, but apparently will stay in analog for now. They're probably too busy dealing with their full-power stations.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14773203
> 
> 
> Looks like sometime in November this may happen (???)
> 
> 
> 10KW... still may not see this till August.



No, according to the FCC filing the 10K transmitter is going on line the day they start using the temporary tower at WKYC! That means within a month or so a few more viewers will finally get a lock on digital ch 26.


It took the sale of the old Brookpark facility to get that extra low power/low tower signal off the air.


----------



## Bismarck440

Reason why I said next August, untill WVIZ goes fully online with full power, I don't think the 10Kw will reach out here by me... a month it will actually be November for this next step.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/14786336
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what will happen to the low powered OTAs after February? There are some channels that haven't applied for low power digital channels yet, such as WAOH-29 and W35AX-35.
> 
> 
> It looks like channel 53 (Daystar) has a construction permit to use channel 7... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1182451.html
> 
> 
> WRAP-32 has a construction permit for use of channel 40
> 
> 
> WXOX-65 has an application for use of channel 44... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...TX1090442.html



Yesterday Morning both 53 & 65 were off the air, although they are on the same tower, I cannot pick up 35 here.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14787666
> 
> 
> LP stations will continue to broadcast analog stations after the digital transition. Our local station seems quite upset about the lack of education on the topic and how some converter boxes are ATSC only.
> 
> 
> See this article I just happened across today for our local LP stations:
> http://www.wbqc.com/dtv.htm



From the article....

WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States! Read the label carefully, a box with both NTSC and ATSC Tuners will say so on the packaging. All other boxes will try to mislead you to buy the bad box by using fancy marketing tactics like "get Digital Television" with this box and etc.


Just remember that you want a box with both an NTSC Tuner and an ATSC Tuner. Keep referring to this website as we will list the good boxes and where to purchase them. Please tell your friends about this scam before they get hurt - even the Geeks at Best Buy do not know about this scam! Buyer beware!


No converter boxes offer the NTSC tuners, just the analog bypass.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gavram* /forum/post/14780949
> 
> 
> I'm getting ready to buy my first HD TV (Samsung LN52A750) and am researching where to get the best HD programming. I took a look at the picture quality of Time Warner's HD locals on a new 46" Sony LCD and was disappointed. I also wasn't a big fan of the 8300HDC DVR...but I'm used to Tivo so I'm a bit jaded. My question is whether the locals look any better on Dish or DirecTV than on TWC. I'm leaning towards Dish because of the better DVR but picture quality is the main concern.



Speaking of new HDTV's what is up with the manufactures making these with the "piano" glossy finish on the cabinets?? they produce a glare, & are easily scratched.


A woman had to have been involved in designing these!







.... Samsung was the first now all followed. The Satin or flat black finish was the most practical for looks & function.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14789072
> 
> 
> No, according to the FCC filing the 10K transmitter is going on line the day they start using the temporary tower at WKYC! That means within a month or so a few more viewers will finally get a lock on digital ch 26.



This is happening really soon. It will be interesting to see what the additional height and power does to their footprint. Regardless of when they go to full power, this will be an improvement. And considering what they went through with their prevcious attempts to get on the CBS tower, they deserve a combat medal.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14789686
> 
> 
> From the article....
> 
> WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States!



I also want to know where they came up with that 80% figure. If only 20% of the broadcasts are going digital, I'm not sure this transition is worth it


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14777248
> 
> 
> It'll go away soon. I was getting Universal HD until about last week. After the Olympics ended and they nuked USA HD, they left Universal HD on "in the clear". Just noticed it is gone yesterday, along with a few other channels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It seems TWC is taking channels away and putting them in some $5 extra tier. Stuff like DIY, Fine Living and some of the kids channels.



Interesting. I ran across this post and it indicates that the upper tier has been just the three channels for some amount of time now. Notice the date of the post.


This is the guy who use to know what was going on with Adelphia but he hasn't been around in some time. handsworth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14791708
> 
> 
> I also want to know where they came up with that 80% figure. If only 20% of the broadcasts are going digital, I'm not sure this transition is worth it



I think you misread the post, although I agree about the 20%.

*WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER!* If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14789072
> 
> 
> No, according to the FCC filing the 10K transmitter is going on line the day they start using the temporary tower at WKYC! That means within a month or so a few more viewers will finally get a lock on digital ch 26.
> 
> 
> It took the sale of the old Brookpark facility to get that extra low power/low tower signal off the air.



It sounds like they have to light up the temporary 10KW ASAP to get off of the now-sold former studio tower holding the STA...then, supposedly, they hope to be on from the new, combined WVIZ/WKYC tower at full-power by sometime in November.


My personal guess is that they're being optimistic, though I haven't gone by the WKYC tower site to see if anything's even started on the facility. I suspect the WVIZ-DT temporary antenna will be uncomplicated, hanging off the side of the existing tower. Of course, they'll have to put a transmitter there, which isn't there now...either their current DT transmitter (if it can go up to that power level) or a new one (going down from the full-power) or something else.


WKYC won't be able to go full-power on the new tower, of course, until WDLI signs off analog 17 in February.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14791708
> 
> 
> I also want to know where they came up with that 80% figure. If only 20% of the broadcasts are going digital, I'm not sure this transition is worth it



That statement is BS. NONE of the converter boxes actually have an internal NTSC tuner, however some do have an "analog passthrough", that sends antenna signals through to the TVs existing NTSC tuner.


Second, I highly doubt LPTV stations would come up around "80% of broadcasts". I'm not surprised a low power station would inflate these numbers(as they have the most to lose from the transition).


The only LPTV station in NE Ohio I've seen is 29(which also comes on TWC Akron 14). The PQ on cable is atrocious. I was looking forward to these crappy channels going away. No such luck.


----------



## dleising

TWC posted a programming notice: http://www.timewarnercable.com/North..._notices2.html 


Nothing really big but it looks like Versus will leave the expanded basic lineup, and move to digital...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14793203
> 
> 
> The only LPTV station in NE Ohio I've seen is 29(which also comes on TWC Akron 14). The PQ on cable is atrocious. I was looking forward to these crappy channels going away. No such luck.



There's a running joke that 29 bought most of its parts as consumer equipment at the Radio Shack across the street from the station.


I'm not so sure it's a joke.


I haven't ever seen 29/35 as anything but a snowy mess OTA - I live about halfway between them - but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not sure TWC has any blame here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14793797
> 
> 
> There's a running joke that 29 bought most of its parts as consumer equipment at the Radio Shack across the street from the station.
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure it's a joke.
> 
> 
> I haven't ever seen 29/35 as anything but a snowy mess OTA - I live about halfway between them - but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not sure TWC has any blame here.



TWC gets the blame for how it is presented. I've found that 29 OTA looks better than TWC 14. It's obvious that TWC gets 29 over the air and they have bad reception. On top of that, the channel comes trough in "digital". TWC takes a poor quality analog signal and bastardizes it into an even worse "digital" channel.


Just like WBNX, I really wish TWC would still pass analog source signals through in analog, rather than "faux digital".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14794275
> 
> 
> Just like WBNX, I really wish TWC would still pass analog source signals through in analog, rather than "faux digital".



Totally agree!


And how about them Dodgers, huh?

















I mean 10-2 last night at Wrigley! Poor Cubbies. I do feel sorry for them.


NOT!!!!!


Too bad it's on so late but in case you're not aware they are kicking the you know what of the Chicago Cubs but then again this is the Cubs and they haven't won a World Series in 100 years.














At least the tribe won one about 41 years ago. Been 20 years for the Dodgers. They are due.

After all the Dodgers are a team with a winning history and amazing players.


Now if the Red Sox do their part, I should have an enjoyable World Series in HD. Gotta stay on topic!


----------



## Speedskater

I think that the Tribe won the World Series in 1948!

I think that the Tribe totally lost the World Series in 1954.


I remember listening to the winning 1948 game on the radio.

Most of the 1954 games were lost before we got home from school each day.


----------



## nickdawg

Tonight, WWE Smackdown officially premiered on My Network TV(after leaving the CW, where it was since September 2006). The CW now has Everybody Hates Chris, The Game and America's Next Top Model on its Friday night lineup. WWE has usually been the highest rated show on the CW. So now, the question is, who will "win" in the ratings? The CW or MNTV?


Also, will losing the WWE finally lead to the demise of the CW? There's already been rumors that the CW was going under.


Which leads to the local TV aspect of this. WUAB _used to_ be a good TV station. They had their own newscast(pre WOIO) as well as the original home of UPN and WB. Along comes WOIO and Raycom. After several years of mismanagement and an awful newscast(19 Action News) as well as horrible programming decisions(dumping primetime programming for infomercials) WUAB is now a joke. A shell of its former self. When the WB and UPN merged to form the CW two years back, the CW affiliation went to WBNX, who is clearly a much better quality station. Even many of WUAB's former syndicated programs went to WBNX(Frasier, Friends). In 2006 WUAB had HD, WBNX did not, but the CW still probably didn't want anything to do with WUAB(who could blame them). The only reason WUAB has the MNTV affiliation today is FOX launched a new network for stations left out by the WB/UPN merger. Although I'm sure even MNTV would rather have ANY other station, if they were available(61, 67, 23, etc).


What do you think? If the CW folds, do you think we'll see a "My55"? WBNX would be left as a crappy independent station







, but they've performed far better than WUAB(or even some of WOIO's newscasts). WBNX has also been one of the highest rated CW and WB stations. Would they really stay independent? Would My Network TV pass up the chance to get away from Raycom/WUAB?


I'll weigh in later.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14794275
> 
> 
> Just like WBNX, I really wish TWC would still pass analog source signals through in analog, rather than "faux digital".



It's been a long time since I saw 29 on TWC Akron, and we don't get it here in the former Adelphia regions...though the Macedonia ex-Adelphia folks do get it, for some reason.


And I haven't seen anything but a fuzzy, distant OTA picture from them, ever. They're not strong enough here at the house, though I'm using an indoor antenna. I don't think a roof antenna would improve the signal much from my position.


But you're right, of course. Though the digital upconvert actually works on the stations that are fed via fiber, those that are digitized off of OTA analog sources are probably awful.


This all goes away, though, at the transition, no? So we'll have to endure this until mid-February...except for 29 on TWC in Akron, since 29 is not going digital probably before I pass from this mortal coil.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, I finally nabbed data captures from WKYC, WOIO and WVIZ for Trip's project.


Of course, I had to get in my car, run my laptop and USB tuner, and park within sight of the WKYC and the temporary WVIZ towers










And just confirming by the lack of any usable WVIZ-DT signal within sight of the WKYC towers, WVIZ-DT is indeed still pumping out 1,000 watts from that small antenna at the old studio site.


My scouting wasn't scientific, since I was using a USB tuner on the laptop attached to its mag-mount solo whip antenna on the car roof, but the inability to pick up WVIZ-DT down in Seven Hills would tell me they're not there yet


----------



## Trip in VA

I just finished uploading the data to my website.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=24 


WOIO-DT is currently *NOT* passing TVGOS data. WVIZ-DT is prepared to run UpdateTV.


And WVIZ-DT is doing their subchannels the right way. I wish my local PBS was doing it the way they are. They've got each SD subchannel doing 352x480i with the audio at 128kbps and the video bandwidth capped at 1.2Mbps, and the HD gets almost 14Mbps at full 1080i with 384kbps audio.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated

I missed this, but I'm glad I caught it on a second look.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14767138
> 
> 
> (from the TWC mailer)
> Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/08



OK, this helps lead me to some answers.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14767138
> 
> 
> 1 Movieloft



I've never seen the phrase "Movieloft" before. Digital 1 is an on-demand portal here. Is that a holdover phrase TWC only uses in the Akron/Canton systems? We know mnowlin is on the Akron (legacy) system.


Has anyone in the former Adelphia areas gotten this letter? I haven't...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14767138
> 
> 
> 350 CNN
> 
> 351 Headline News
> 
> 352 Fox News
> 
> 354 MSNBC
> 
> 355 CNBC
> 
> 370 Weather Channel
> 
> (etc. etc.)



This list would indicate to me that they're going to start feeding the "digital cable simulcast" channels (ONLY) via SDV, not the sub-100 analog channels of the same networks.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14767138
> 
> 
> 610 HBO W
> 
> 611 HBO2 W
> 
> 612 HBO Signature W
> 
> 613 HBO Family W
> 
> 614 HBO Comedy W
> 
> 615 HBO Zone W



Notice they're only seeding the west coast feeds of HBO via SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14797063
> 
> 
> 
> This all goes away, though, at the transition, no? So we'll have to endure this until mid-February...except for 29 on TWC in Akron, since 29 is not going digital probably before I pass from this mortal coil.



29 will probably shut down before they go digital, unless Radio Shack has a sale!!










I've seen the OTA digital broadcasts of 480i SD channels like WQHS and WOAC. They're beautiful, especially WQHS, which I really like. Lots of hot Latina women on that channel, in clear digital!!! Whether it is OTA or fiber, picture quality will improve for cable after the transition. ALL the 2-13 local channels should be true digital. Also, SD viewers of NBC should be seeing full screen programs again. Currently with the separate SD/HD feeds, NBC showed SD programming in the letterbox format. With the transition coming, you'll notice that bugs and graphics have already been moved to a 4:3 safe position, so SD viewers should be seeing a normal picture again.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14797119
> 
> 
> I just finished uploading the data to my website.
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=24



Glad I was able to help, Trip! Maybe if my car and my laptop are over in Sandusky, I'll grab WGGN for ya. I keep forgetting they're in the market. And of course, there's WMFD in Mansfield. Some day...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14797119
> 
> 
> WOIO-DT is currently *NOT* passing TVGOS data. WVIZ-DT is prepared to run UpdateTV.



I was curious when I did the captures...how in the world can you tell from the data, in either case? Point me to a capture of a station elsewhere doing both of those, and I'll check out the links...


I didn't see anything obvious in my capture HTML files.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14797124
> 
> 
> I missed this, but I'm glad I caught it on a second look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, this helps lead me to some answers.
> 
> 
> I've never seen the phrase "Movieloft" before. Digital 1 is an on-demand portal here. Is that a holdover phrase TWC only uses in the Akron/Canton systems? We know mnowlin is on the Akron (legacy) system.
> 
> 
> Has anyone in the former Adelphia areas gotten this letter? I haven't...
> 
> 
> This list would indicate to me that they're going to start feeding the "digital cable simulcast" channels (ONLY) via SDV, not the sub-100 analog channels of the same networks.
> 
> 
> Notice they're only seeding the west coast feeds of HBO via SDV.



I've never seen Movie Loft either. All I've seen is TWONE.


If they begin using SDV versions of the news channels, they will probably show up as digital SDV in both locations, since MSNBC 37 and 354 are both the same physical channel, just mapped to two different locations. That may be what could hold up SDV in Adelphia areas, the fact they do not have digital versions of these channels yet.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797132
> 
> 
> 29 will probably shut down before they go digital, unless Radio Shack has a sale!!



You think I'm kidding about that Radio Shack? Heh...it's in a new plaza on Route 59 just east of Kent, across the parking lot from a new Wal-Mart, and directly, literally, across the street from 29's headquarters (in the WNIR Radio studios).


I hesitate to say "29's studios", because I don't know if they do their local one-camera production talk shows there or not.


It'd take a station employee roughly 5 minutes to walk to the Radio Shack, and 4 minutes of that would be down the station's gravel driveway.


Anyway, after all the full-power OTA analogs go away in February, 29 will be the only station left on TWC feeding via analog.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797004
> 
> 
> Tonight, WWE Smackdown officially premiered on My Network TV(after leaving the CW, where it was since September 2006). The CW now has Everybody Hates Chris, The Game and America's Next Top Model on its Friday night lineup. WWE has usually been the highest rated show on the CW. So now, the question is, who will "win" in the ratings? The CW or MNTV?



Everybody Hates Chris has always been on the CW. Before that I believe it may have been Paramont. And with shows like Supernatural and Smallville, I don't see the demise of the CW. Smackdown belongs on MYNTV, not CW.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797004
> 
> 
> , will losing the WWE finally lead to the demise of the CW? There's already been rumors that the CW was going under.



What rumors? There is absolutely nothing worth watching on MTVN. Are you still taking your meds?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg;14797004} Which leads to the local TV aspect of this. WUAB [I* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> used to[/i] be a good TV station. They had their own newscast(pre WOIO) as well as the original home of UPN and WB. Along comes WOIO and Raycom. After several years of mismanagement and an awful newscast(19 Action News) as well as horrible programming decisions(dumping primetime programming for infomercials) WUAB is now a joke.



Here we agree. WUAB is a joke. Just turn on channel 19 news at 10.


It does however carry Judge Mathis. I like Judge Mathis.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797004
> 
> 
> What do you think? If the CW folds, do you think we'll see a "My55"? WBNX would be left as a crappy independent station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , but they've performed far better than WUAB(or even some of WOIO's newscasts). WBNX has also been one of the highest rated CW and WB stations. Would they really stay independent? Would My Network TV pass up the chance to get away from Raycom/WUAB?
> 
> 
> I'll weigh in later.



I think the CW has nothing to worry about. Also there are other good programs on the CW. The only complaint I have about the CW is they don't use the rear channels on their 5.1 broadcast. That, I don't understand.


And I prefer TNT for my wrestling on SPIKE TV. I hate the WWE. And nickdawg, where did all of this come from.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14797158
> 
> 
> Glad I was able to help, Trip! Maybe if my car and my laptop are over in Sandusky, I'll grab WGGN for ya. I keep forgetting they're in the market. And of course, there's WMFD in Mansfield. Some day...


 http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DS1238366.html 


That's their current coverage pattern. I wouldn't worry about it til it powers up, then see if you can get it from Akron, when this map will represent them.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1219934.html 



> Quote:
> I was curious when I did the captures...how in the world can you tell from the data, in either case? Point me to a capture of a station elsewhere doing both of those, and I'll check out the links...
> 
> 
> I didn't see anything obvious in my capture HTML files.



Here's WOIO: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../39746-0_0.htm 

Here's WDBJ: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../71329-0_0.htm 


In the latter, note under the PMT, there are two lines that begin with Stream Type: 0x05. Note that those are named TVG1 and TVG2. Those are TVGOS feeds. WOIO-DT does not have those.


Here's WVIZ: http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../18753-0_0.htm 


For UpdateTV, there are two extra Programs. Programs 12 and 13 are listed in the PMT. 12 is named BDC0 (Broadcast Data Corporation), and 13 is named ULI0 (Update Logic Inc). The former is the latter's previous name.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14797205
> 
> 
> That's their current coverage pattern. I wouldn't worry about it til it powers up, then see if you can get it from Akron, when this map will represent them.
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1219934.html



I had no idea WGGN-DT would put out that much signal. I suppose it makes sense - it's a religious rimshot station, and those stations like to hit as much of the big market as possible (see WDLI-DT's rather expensive and long move from way east of Canton to northwest of Akron).


And thanks for the lesson on reading those outputs. I know TVGOS, but I have no idea what UpdateTV is.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797171
> 
> 
> If they begin using SDV versions of the news channels, they will probably show up as digital SDV in both locations, since MSNBC 37 and 354 are both the same physical channel, just mapped to two different locations. That may be what could hold up SDV in Adelphia areas, the fact they do not have digital versions of these channels yet.



Except for one thing, though...I'm wondering if it would make more sense to TWC since CNN, etc. are coming down in analog anyway, to send them on the lower channels in analog...instead of tying up the SDV "slots" with popular channels that are likely to have at least one person watching them all the time.


We'll see how this all plays out!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14797192
> 
> 
> Everybody Hates Chris has always been on the CW. Before that I believe it may have been Paramont. And with shows like Supernatural and Smallville, I don't see the demise of the CW. Smackdown belongs on MYNTV, not CW.



Smackdown used to be on CBS-Paramount property UPN, which explains why it was originally on the CW(part owned by CBS/Paramount). The WWE did not get picked up thanks to btch president Dawn Ostroff wanting to redefine the target audience to 18-34 year old women. But what would you expect from the former VP of Lifetime







.



> Quote:
> What rumors? There is absolutely nothing worth watching on MTVN. Are you still taking your meds?



It's been discussed in the main forums before. Plus this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121089546043097065.html 



> Quote:
> Here we agree. WUAB is a joke. Just turn on channel 19 news at 10.
> 
> 
> It does however carry Judge Mathis. I like Judge Mathis.



I like Judge Mathis too. Maybe he will move to WBNX too!











> Quote:
> I think the CW has nothing to worry about. Also there are other good programs on the CW. The only complaint I have about the CW is they don't use the rear channels on their 5.1 broadcast. That, I don't understand.
> 
> 
> And I prefer TNT for my wrestling on SPIKE TV. I hate the WWE. And nickdawg, where did all of this come from.



Just thought we could use a thought question every now and then.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14797258
> 
> 
> I had no idea WGGN-DT would put out that much signal. I suppose it makes sense - it's a religious rimshot station, and those stations like to hit as much of the big market as possible (see WDLI-DT's rather expensive and long move from way east of Canton to northwest of Akron).
> 
> 
> And thanks for the lesson on reading those outputs. I know TVGOS, but I have no idea what UpdateTV is.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV 


Glad to help you out with it. =) Is there anything else I can help you with as far as understanding the TSReader output?


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14797284
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpdateTV
> 
> 
> Glad to help you out with it. =) Is there anything else I can help you with as far as understanding the TSReader output?



Nah, aside from wondering why the ones I did for you have so much more information than the other ones you linked.










Thank you again!!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14797124
> 
> 
> I've never seen the phrase "Movieloft" before.



"Movieloft" - noun - The space above your garage that you turn into a HD theater.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797281
> 
> 
> I like Judge Mathis too. Maybe he will move to WBNX too!



Which just goes to show there is good in everybody.


















> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14797281
> 
> 
> Just thought we could use a thought question every now and then.



Well, if nobody else wants to talk about it I do. The concept of MYTV wasn't bad in the beginning. It was suppose to consist of shows that would run like a 13 or 20 episodes and then end. The problem is somebody forgot to put the word "quality" into that theory.










And back then I only had one TiVo so I couldn't record anything anyway. And is anything in HD on WUAB other then 19 Action News at 10? Since I don't watch the WWE is Smackdown in HD?


----------



## hookbill

Here's something else you might find interesting, nickdawg. The wife has discovered the jewlery channel but on the TV she watches sometimes she only has analog. She is asking for digital. If she gets it there may be an SA 8300 in my house again.










If I can just get a box though I will do that.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14789686
> 
> 
> From the article....
> 
> WARNING: MAKE SURE THE CONVERTER BOX THAT YOU BUY HAS AN NTSC TUNER AND AN ATSC TUNER! If you buy any other box you will not get 80% of the TV stations that are broadcasting in the United States! Read the label carefully, a box with both NTSC and ATSC Tuners will say so on the packaging. All other boxes will try to mislead you to buy the bad box by using fancy marketing tactics like "get Digital Television" with this box and etc.
> 
> 
> Just remember that you want a box with both an NTSC Tuner and an ATSC Tuner. Keep referring to this website as we will list the good boxes and where to purchase them. Please tell your friends about this scam before they get hurt - even the Geeks at Best Buy do not know about this scam! Buyer beware!
> 
> 
> No converter boxes offer the NTSC tuners, just the analog bypass.



Why would you need an NTSC tuner in the box when you already have an NTSC tuner in your analog TV? A pass-through is all that is necessary (unless the user can't find the channel that the atsc converter is on after watching an NTSC channel).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14798414
> 
> 
> Well, if nobody else wants to talk about it I do. The concept of MYTV wasn't bad in the beginning. It was suppose to consist of shows that would run like a 13 or 20 episodes and then end. The problem is somebody forgot to put the word "quality" into that theory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And back then I only had one TiVo so I couldn't record anything anyway. And is anything in HD on WUAB other then 19 Action News at 10? Since I don't watch the WWE is Smackdown in HD?



Yes. All of the WWE properties Smackdown on MNTV, RAW on USA HD and ECW on SCIFI HD all went HD earlier this year. Unfortunately I've only seen two episodes of RAW in HD---those two weeks TWC had USA HD.

















Really. MY Network TV was pathetic at first, and kinda still is. The concept wasn't bad, a new TV network, but their choices of programming is. Their first attempt was showing the telenovelas each night and eventually they would end and be replaced by another one. Now they show cheesy programming that looks like something from syndication, in SD of course. They also show movies that may or may not be HD. Also, the past few weeks they've been showing the new Twilight Zone episodes that were on UPN a few years back, surprisingly they were HD.


If you would have asked me two years ago which network would make it and which one would die, I definitely would have said the CW would be the one that made it. I thought MNTV would be gone in 6 months. Apparently the owner has tons of expendable money to keep a network almost no one watches on the air.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14800535
> 
> 
> I thought MNTV would be gone in 6 months. Apparently the owner has tons of expendable money to keep a network almost no one watches on the air.



My Network TV is owned by Fox. I doubt it's going anywhere.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14798427
> 
> 
> Here's something else you might find interesting, nickdawg. The wife has discovered the jewlery channel but on the TV she watches sometimes she only has analog. She is asking for digital. If she gets it there may be an SA 8300 in my house again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I can just get a box though I will do that.



Which jewelry channel is it? QVC? Shop NBC? JWLTV?


Enjoy the new 8300HD







Crazy thought, maybe TWC will change their minds and give EVERYONE in NE Ohio Passport. I could see hookbill kicking Tivo out then.







Then it could be like those commercials with the mop in the bushes outside while the Mariachi band plays.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14800548
> 
> 
> My Network TV is owned by Fox. I doubt it's going anywhere.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Rupert Murdock owns FOX. If it's a loser, he will get rid of it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14800551
> 
> 
> Which jewelry channel is it? QVC? Shop NBC? JWLTV?
> 
> 
> Enjoy the new 8300HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy thought, maybe TWC will change their minds and give EVERYONE in NE Ohio Passport. I could see hookbill kicking Tivo out then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it could be like those commercials with the mop in the bushes outside while the Mariachi band plays.



Fortunately she told me she doesn't want it. Good thing, I've run out of rope and the only way I take those things back is by tying them to the back of my car and dragging them in.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14800548
> 
> 
> My Network TV is owned by Fox. I doubt it's going anywhere.
> 
> 
> - Trip



While you're here, I have those answers to the My Network TV distribution questions you posted earlier in the subchannel discussion.


My Network TV doesn't use the FOX splicer system, only FOX does. MNTV sends down a high bitrate feed for the local station to re-encode, like the other networks. My Network TV also doesn't have the "ghost subchannel" taken out at the source, like FOX.


If a subchannel(or two) were added, the PQ _could_ be affected. Since it's 720p, the effect of the subchannel wouldn't be as bad as a 1080i channel(like WOIO CBS).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14800564
> 
> 
> Rupert Murdock owns FOX. If it's a loser, he will get rid of it.



Rupert (ARRRR) Murdoch is a loser!!! He should get rid of himself!!!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14800622
> 
> 
> While you're here, I have those answers to the My Network TV distribution questions you posted earlier in the subchannel discussion.
> 
> 
> My Network TV doesn't use the FOX splicer system, only FOX does. MNTV sends down a high bitrate feed for the local station to re-encode, like the other networks. My Network TV also doesn't have the "ghost subchannel" taken out at the source, like FOX.
> 
> 
> If a subchannel(or two) were added, the PQ _could_ be affected. Since it's 720p, the effect of the subchannel wouldn't be as bad as a 1080i channel(like WOIO CBS).



Thanks, that's interesting stuff. I wonder why they didn't use the splicer for it, you'd think they would have.


- Trip


----------



## Bradrj1029

can anyone here tell me what all channels it would come with in hd. Im really just wanting to know if I will get DiscoveryHD so i can watch mythbusters and dirty jobs.. Thanks


----------



## Speedskater

I wonder how this thread suddenly jumped into the "Programing Forum" ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bradrj1029* /forum/post/14802399
> 
> 
> can anyone here tell me what all channels it would come with in hd. Im really just wanting to know if I will get DiscoveryHD so i can watch mythbusters and dirty jobs.. Thanks



First, welcome to the forum. Line ups are available if you go to the TWNEO web site. You will have to navigate it on your own, it's not that difficult.










Edited to add: Another way to see what's actually on Discovery HD is to go to zap2it.com and say you have TW cable use your zip code and choose "digital rebuild". Discovery HD does not carry the same programming as regular Discovery channel.


Speedskater, I don't understand what you mean. Can you clairfy?


----------



## Argee

This thread should be in the Local HD forum but it jumped to the HDTV Programming forum for some reason.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/14804835
> 
> 
> This thread should be in the Local HD forum but it jumped to the HDTV Programming forum for some reason.



You're right! I didn't even realize it. When did this happen?


This has to be an accident of some sort. When I did a search in the Local HD Forum this comes up but it does show HDTV Programming.


I'll ask Mr. Bott. Perhaps he will explain. If he will speak to me that is.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14804946
> 
> 
> You're right! I didn't even realize it. When did this happen?
> 
> 
> This has to be an accident of some sort. When I did a search in the Local HD Forum this comes up but it does show HDTV Programming.
> 
> 
> I'll ask Mr. Bott. Perhaps he will explain. If he will speak to me that is.



Hook, I just got done speking with him via PM a few minutes ago regarding a different matter. If you PM him right now, you may get an immediate response. ...and if not, I'm sure in due time he will get back with you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14805173
> 
> 
> Hook, I just got done speking with him via PM a few minutes ago regarding a different matter. If you PM him right now, you may get an immediate response. ...and if not, I'm sure in due time he will get back with you.



We're back in the right spot. Here's what he said:

*Hi..


Looks like some house keeping was being done with some thread merging and it ended up where it did. I have moved it back to the local section.


David

__________________

David Bott

AVS Forum Admin*


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14805493
> 
> 
> We're back in the right spot. Here's what he said:



Given your history, especially elsewhere, I'm surprised he answered.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bradrj1029* /forum/post/14802399
> 
> 
> can anyone here tell me what all channels it would come with in hd. Im really just wanting to know if I will get DiscoveryHD so i can watch mythbusters and dirty jobs.. Thanks



Hi Brad,


Another Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs fan here! There are two different Discovery HD servcices. The one that's called Discovery-HD carries those shows, but that channel isn't carried on TWC yet. The other channel (the one that's carried on TWC) used to be called Discovery HD Theater, and they changed the name to simply "Theater." (This was Discovery's decision, not TWC's.) Anyway, the Theater channel carries different programming from regular Discovery fare, geared more towards HD beauty shots of the outdoors.


BTW, ever wondered where the Mythbusters theme came from? Listen to ZZ-Top's "Legs" and you'll hear a _very_ familiar riff.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14806614
> 
> 
> Given your history, especially elsewhere, I'm surprised he answered.



He's talked to me before. When I left TCF, and I want to be clear about this I did not really get kicked out. What happened however was I had received a one day suspension and then two days later got another for like 3 days.


I could not find anything I had done wrong to warrant the second suspension, and since I don't like to be bullied I sent David a not so nice letter. Let's just say I called him a few names and told me why wait, boot me now.


Since then I have apologized to him for the personal comments I made. I now realize that the person who probably got me booted goes in this forum under the name of magnani, like in maggot. Now what I think happened was he was launching personal attacks at me and I turned him in and he got the boot. That's why I say do a search at TCF and you will see that almost every post he made was a negative post towards me.


Since then he has snuck back in to the TiVo forum as "sooka" and his soul mission is to try to find out who I am, which he never does but he thinks he finds me. He has also attacked me here. Run a search on the TiVo thread using his name that he had in the TiVo Forum, magnani and you will see him there lying about me being booted 5 times out of TCF.


He stalks me and you will notice even though he only has 10 post it always has something to do with hookbill. Same thing in the TiVo Forum, he finds people he thinks are me and then has them kicked. Only in the TiVo Forum they don't realize that he is actually the one that was kicked.


Magnani is no longer an active name in the TiVo Forum. Just here.


Anyway, he's been warned that I will indeed get a private investigator and find out who he is and try and have him criminally prosecuted if he continues. I haven't heard from him since, but more then likely he won't take me seriously.


He's dead wrong. At the very least he has committed deformation of character and when I find him I'll either sue him in civil court or have him prosecuted for stocking.


----------



## nickdawg

One question, who is TCF?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14807369
> 
> 
> have him prosecuted for stocking.



Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas?










- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants









stalking?


Seriously though, be VERY CAREFUL Hook. Someone close to me was recently stalked and it did not end well if you know what I mean. Some people in this world are sick sick sick. If you think he is really stalking you, you don't threaten or provock him... just call the police.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14807494
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stalking?
> 
> 
> Seriously though, be VERY CAREFUL Hook. Someone close to me was recently stalked and it did not end well if you know what I mean. Some people in this world are sick sick sick. If you think he is really stalking you, you don't threaten or provock him... just call the police.



What the ----? What's going on here? I feel "out of the loop". What did I miss? Is hook OK?


----------



## Smarty-pants

If you actually read his post just 3 posts above my last one (post #14750), that is what I was referring too. I also remember him speaking of the situation in the past. Just heeding him fair warning that there a some real nut cases out there and to be careful.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14807380
> 
> 
> One question, who is TCF?



TiVo Community Forum. It used to be a sister site to AVS Forum, and concentrates on TiVos and other related things...and has a rather large off-topic area that is quite popular.


I say "used to be" because Mr. Bott sold off TCF to a company, Capable Networks. I think he still advises them, but he doesn't own it or directly run it anymore.


I met Mr. Bott in Las Vegas at a TC Con...very nice guy!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14807494
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stalking?
> 
> 
> Seriously though, be VERY CAREFUL Hook. Someone close to me was recently stalked and it did not end well if you know what I mean. Some people in this world are sick sick sick. If you think he is really stalking you, you don't threaten or provock him... just call the police.



Provock him?

















See it happens to everyone.


I gotta find out who he is first, which is why I would need a PI. Cops arn't just going to search for someone who makes about me. Stalking, indeed. But more to the nature of deformation of character.


I've sent him pm's advising him that if this continues he will be criminally charged. That and to let him know that I've known his true identity at the *Tivo Community Forum*.


It's no big secret that I still go over there and since David Bott is no longer admin over there I will admit to it. And yes, "sooka" (magania) has caught me a couple of times and what really annoys me is that he will use something that I have said in the past giving advice, like what to do during having your cable cards installed and such as his "proof" to the moderators. He starts sending me PM's that he knows who I am and it's just a matter of time before he will get me thrown out. Or if I dare even make a wise crack he goes ballistic.


What is funny is that is the only time he post in his "sooka" ID. He reads everything over in this forum as well and he has even posted one time in here. Of course it had to do with something I had said which he felt linked me up to some other person who wasn't me. He did that in his magania account over here.


The last guy he accused I think he got him tossed but they had the wrong guy. He was posting on the page telling people "THIS IS HOOKBILL." Nobody responded to his post. I doubt he is actually a moderator.


I suppose he feels it's his job to keep evil people like me out of TCF, but truly he can't stop me and if I want to go there, I go there. Now if I have an account there right now or not, that I won't say.










My wife is aware of it and if it does continue I will, as I said, take action to protect her and myself.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14808164
> 
> 
> I met Mr. Bott in Las Vegas at a TC Con...very nice guy!



Which is why I apologized to him. I don't think he was the one who made the decision to give me the second warning, a moderator did. And since I don't know why I got the second warning I can only guess that someone who didn't like me reported me for something that was probably borderline but once you get on their radar you can be in for trouble.


Another person who is still hanging in over there was told in a pm that "he has already done more things to get himself kicked out then hookbill did." We email each other.


Except hookbill didn't get kicked out. I just said I wasn't going to be kept under a microscope and then made the unkind statements and said "so go ahead and boot me."


One other thing: Never assume that your pm is truly private. Moderators will look at them if they feel it's necessary.


----------



## hookbill

Unbelievable. They have been saying on the FOX 8 news that they will be televising the Browns vs Giants. So I did a little investigating. Why would FOX be televising Monday Night Football?


Well it appears that they think this is more important then the National League Championship Series! So while you watch your little Browns get pushed around like a bunch of pansies that they are by the Giants, I do not get the FOX national televised game! Which happens to be the Dodgers and the Phillies.


This has got to be a decision made by the new owners.


This sucks, you can see the game on ESPN if you want to. Why deprive me of watching something important.


FOX 8, you suck!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14813418
> 
> 
> FOX 8, you suck!



Finally you realize it!!! I cannot watch even five minutes of "FOX 8 (what they pass off as)NEWS".


Watch channel 3. They're better!!


----------



## nickdawg

Two more weeks until SDV begins in NE Ohio!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14813770
> 
> 
> Two more weeks until SDV begins in NE Ohio!!



I doubt it. And even if it does, do you expect more HD on 10/21?


I personally like Channel 3 news better, but in the morning it's off by 7:00 am and in the evening it doesn't start until 6:00 pm.


Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.


FWIW they are now distributing the digital converters in Pittsburgh. From what I heard they work quite well.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14814204
> 
> 
> I doubt it. And even if it does, do you expect more HD on 10/21?
> 
> 
> I personally like Channel 3 news better, but in the morning it's off by 7:00 am and in the evening it doesn't start until 6:00 pm.
> 
> 
> Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.



I have a feeling that the new non-O&O ownership will pull crap like this, as they can get away with it more than under O&O management. I highly doubt FOX would let an owned station pull something like FOX's MLB coverage. I'm surprised they got away with _this_. I wouldn't even say it was justified to show the Browns if they had a no loss season. Like that would ever happen.










I especially cannot stand FOX morning. Sissy Shaffer is an obnoxious t**t. I do love Good Morning Cleveland though. Kimberly Gill is one fine lady.

























> Quote:
> FWIW they are now distributing the digital converters in Pittsburgh. From what I heard they work quite well.



What do you mean? They're giving away DTV converters? I thought it was just a coupon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14814303
> 
> 
> I What do you mean? They're giving away DTV converters? I thought it was just a coupon.




No, I'm talking about the SDV converters that allow TiVo users to access SDV. You know, the ones that they are providing for free that got you so upset about a week ago.


----------



## beaver2672

FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14814303
> 
> 
> I have a feeling that the new non-O&O ownership will pull crap like this, as they can get away with it more than under O&O management. I highly doubt FOX would let an owned station pull something like FOX's MLB coverage. I'm surprised they got away with _this_. I wouldn't even say it was justified to show the Browns if they had a no loss season. Like that would ever happen.



The decision had to be made months ago, before FOX closed on the sale of WJW.


And really, despite all the complaining here, it's a no brainer. You'd have to be insane if you ran a TV station in this town and you passed up on the local rights to a nationally-televised Browns game. It's about the closest thing to printing money that you can find in TV, and even when the Browns stink, half of Northeast Ohio watches them on TV.


It's very easily a decision that the network made itself, and should have made, for very, very sound business reasons. The "justification" isn't whether you like or don't like the Browns, or whether you think FOX should show a baseball playoff game instead.


The "justification" is MONEY. WJW, whether it's owned by FOX or by its new owners, makes a LOT of it (money) by getting the rights to the Browns/Giants Monday Night game. They are more than willing to give up whatever ratings that one baseball playoff game would get in Cleveland, to make MORE money selling local spots in the Browns game.


And yes, the game is widely available on ESPN. That's not the point. WJW/Local TV/FOX/whoever doesn't make money off the ESPN cable feed... they only make money showing it on their airwaves.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14814204
> 
> 
> Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.



And if the Dodgers weren't in the NLCS, you wouldn't care.







And you may be one of only a half-dozen Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio...and there are even less Phillies fans here...and this is an American League town anyway.







And with the Indians not in the playoffs this year, most people here don't really care either way.


Actually, I'm wondering why they are scheduling a baseball championship game on Monday night. Don't MLB and the NFL try to avoid that? Or maybe it's only an issue for them during the World Series...


----------



## paule123

In addition to Inundated's point about MONEY, Fox is the NFC national broadcaster, and the Giants are the NFC visitor, so the game would have been on Fox on Sunday anyway, and there has to be an OTA broadcaster in the local market for the MNF game, so I assume WJW gets first rights to it as the Fox affiliate here.


... and no offense hook, but in the Cleveland market, nobody gives a **** about the Dodgers and Phillies, two NL teams. This is an AL Central town.


----------



## Jigga Moog

Does anybody know how many cavs games are going to be in HD this year?


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jigga Moog* /forum/post/14815568
> 
> 
> Does anybody know how many cavs games are going to be in HD this year?




you might want to go to the cavs official web page for a listing of there games and it might say on there which games will be on Fox Ohio in HD..


I was suprised that all the games on Fox Ohio were not in HD last year.


STO does all the Tribes game in HD I wonder the reasoning behind Fox ohio and the cavs


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/14814668
> 
> 
> FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set!



I'd put Big10 HD ahead of that, but at least we're getting more HD!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/14814668
> 
> 
> FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set!



TWC...Isn't that Time Warner Cable? You want them to add Time Warner Cable? What are you crazy?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14815607
> 
> 
> STO does all the Tribes game in HD I wonder the reasoning behind Fox ohio and the cavs



Because FSN Ohio isn't STO?










Actually, FSN (the entire collection of regional networks) is upgrading its HD.


Supposedly, they'll even have a 24/7 HD feed like STO has now...that's 24/7 as in you'll be able to tune to the HD channel and watch it full-time, events actually being in HD may vary.


But they're making an effort to upgrade the number of games they cover in HD. There's a thread about it somewhere over in the HDTV Programming section here.


STO has been ahead of the curve. Last year, they went full HD for all home games, because they wired then-Jacobs Field for it, and put in all HD cameras. With the across-the-board availability of HD equipment/trucks/facilities growing, they added road games this now-past season.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14815692
> 
> 
> TWC...Isn't that Time Warner Cable? You want them to add Time Warner Cable? What are you crazy?



I assume he means *T*he *W*eather *C*hannel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14814719
> 
> 
> And if the Dodgers weren't in the NLCS, you wouldn't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you may be one of only a half-dozen Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio...and there are even less Phillies fans here...and this is an American League town anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with the Indians not in the playoffs this year, most people here don't really care either way.



I posted a response on this. I don't think it got removed but maybe I didn't push the send button. And it was a very clever and witty response, full of passion. I don't think I can do it the same way.










I've been hit with the Cleveland curse! The one time the Dodgers are shown on National Television FOX pulls the plug. And for what? To watch a team with a horrible quarterback, makes penalties and mistakes, get squashed by the World Champion Giants?


And as far as Dodger fans in the area, you may be surprised. There were quite a number of them in Cincinnati, many more then I expected.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14814719
> 
> 
> Actually, I'm wondering why they are scheduling a baseball championship game on Monday night. Don't MLB and the NFL try to avoid that? Or maybe it's only an issue for them during the World Series...



I wondered the same thing yesterday when they had the playoffs on during the day against Sunday football. I thought they tried to avoid that.


This isn't the response I originally gave but it's kind of a summary. My other response was much more pasionate but I don't know what happened to it. Maybe the part where I said "in your face LaBron James and Yankee Fans" about Torre going to the NLCS got someone upset. Or maybe when I mentioned King James was still welcome to come to the Lakers after his contract was up.


Anyway, I do understand the decision. Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14814748
> 
> 
> ... and no offense hook, but in the Cleveland market, nobody gives a **** about the Dodgers and Phillies, two NL teams. This is an AL Central town.




lol. I know that. And no offense taken.


I wish my original post went through. I covered most of this.


You know how you can get wound up with passion and start typing and really let it loose. I did, and I just can't do it a second time. I took a shot at everything in Cleveland sports.


Maybe somebody took offense at my post. Anyway, good luck next week You will need it.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Hook, I have posts just "disappear" at least once a week. They're not "edited" by moderators either, I think sometimes it's just a glitch in the system.


As far as Cleveland Sports, you really don't need to take any pot shots at them, they've pretty much done that to themselves. Enjoy your Dodgers.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14816101
> 
> 
> I've been hit with the Cleveland curse! The one time the Dodgers are shown on National Television FOX pulls the plug. And for what? To watch a team with a horrible quarterback, makes penalties and mistakes, get squashed by the World Champion Giants?



You could be a fan of the Cleveland teams instead. We're hit with the "Cleveland curse" just by watching our own teams!


Relax...I'm pretty sure FOX 8 will show the other games, no? Of course, if I remember right from looking at the schedule, the Dodgers would win the NLCS next Monday night if they sweep the Phillies.


I AM sorry for you, in that case. Too bad you're surrounded by big trees out there, because otherwise you might have a shot at WKBN-DT to watch the game on "FOX 17/62" (subchannel 27.2 - not in HD, but at least you could see it!).


If you weren't antenna challenged, you'd probably get that signal in Bainbridge...or maybe you can drive to a sports bar in Trumbull County or something.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14816101
> 
> 
> And as far as Dodger fans in the area, you may be surprised. There were quite a number of them in Cincinnati, many more then I expected.



I don't know if anyone's ever done a census of 'em, but I'm guessing the Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio could all fit into my living room.


Cincy? Well, it's an NL town, and if the Reds stink, at least fans there see some of the Dodgers on TV...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14817038
> 
> 
> You could be a fan of the Cleveland teams instead. We're hit with the "Cleveland curse" just by watching our own teams!
> 
> 
> Relax...I'm pretty sure FOX 8 will show the other games, no? Of course, if I remember right from looking at the schedule, the Dodgers would win the NLCS next Monday night if they sweep the Phillies.



Of course. It won't even go that far anyway. Thanks Inundated, I feel much better!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14817038
> 
> 
> I don't know if anyone's ever done a census of 'em, but I'm guessing the Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio could all fit into my living room.
> 
> 
> Cincy? Well, it's an NL town, and if the Reds stink, at least fans there see some of the Dodgers on TV...



You're probably right. Still I was amazed at how many I saw down there.


But as far as viewing the Dodgers on TV with the way it's set up now unless you have MLB Extra Innings or MLB on the computer you don't see much of them. The only way you may see them is if they are playing a contending Central Division Team, which is much more likely then what we get. A.L. Baseball, week after week, no strategy, boring.


Sorry guys, I don't like the DH and my good buddy, Tommy Lasorda whom I actually interrupted a conversation he was having with someone at LAX to shake his hand doesn't like it either!


I did thank him for bringing the gold back to the US in the Olympics. I know he's to old now but for motivation, nobody is better the Lasorda.


EDIT: Hey, maybe I can call Tommy and ask him to give the Browns some motivation! You know like when they complete a play he can run out there and hug the players and such! Looks like he could provide more motivation then "I just sit around and look gloomy" Romeo.


Yeah, like I have his number.


----------



## Rbuchina




Inundated said:


> And if the Dodgers weren't in the NLCS, you wouldn't care.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you may be one of only a half-dozen Dodger fans in Northeast Ohio...and there are even less Phillies fans here...and this is an American League town anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with the Indians not in the playoffs this year, most people here don't really care either way.
> 
> 
> Actually I am also intrested in the Dogers. My dream Series would put The Dogers against the Red Sox. I would love to see a "motivated" Manny be Manny and pound his old team into submission.
> 
> 
> Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/14818247
> 
> 
> Actually I am also intrested in the Dogers. My dream Series would put The Dogers against the Red Sox. I would love to see a "motivated" Manny be Manny and pound his old team into submission.
> 
> 
> Ray



This is EXACTLY what I want to see. I'll bet Manny would love nothing more then to show up in Fenway wearing Dodger Blue and put the hurting on them!


OK that's two of us. We would fit in Inundated's living room. I think.










Will you be supplying the beer?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14813418
> 
> 
> Unbelievable. They have been saying on the FOX 8 news that they will be televising the Browns vs Giants. So I did a little investigating. Why would FOX be televising Monday Night Football?
> 
> 
> Well it appears that they think this is more important then the National League Championship Series! So while you watch your little Browns get pushed around like a bunch of pansies that they are by the Giants, I do not get the FOX national televised game! Which happens to be the Dodgers and the Phillies.
> 
> 
> This has got to be a decision made by the new owners.
> 
> 
> This sucks, you can see the game on ESPN if you want to. Why deprive me of watching something important.
> 
> 
> FOX 8, you suck!



Thanks to the 9-day EPG on my 622, I found that next Monday's NLCS is on (drum roll please) WUAB!!!! That's right - FOX moves to WUAB for one evening and one evening only!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14819928
> 
> 
> Thanks to the 9-day EPG on my 622, I found that next Monday's NLCS is on (drum roll please) WUAB!!!! That's right - FOX moves to WUAB for one evening and one evening only!



You mean to say the the NLCS IS ON WUAB? Wow, amazing!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14818277
> 
> 
> This is EXACTLY what I want to see. I'll bet Manny would love nothing more then to show up in Fenway wearing Dodger Blue and put the hurting on them!
> 
> 
> OK that's two of us. We would fit in Inundated's living room. I think.



Oh, if you expand the "Dodger fan base in Northeast Ohio" to "people who want to see the Red Sox get their tails beaten by the Dodgers in the World Series", I can't even fit all of you in this entire suburb. That's pretty much all of Northeast Ohio!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14820221
> 
> 
> You mean to say the the NLCS IS ON WUAB? Wow, amazing!



Zap2It, using the same Tribune Media data as TiVo does, confirms this. NLCS on WUAB/WUAB-DT on Monday, the 13th, with Browns/Giants over on FOX 8.


The listing for the NLCS game says "HD", though that's probably just a carryover from the FOX main listing. I have no idea if WUAB can pick up the HD feed.


Though there's obviously no connection between WJW and WUAB, FOX does own MyNetwork TV, and would probably easily accede to the pre-emption of its own secondary network to keep the primary FOX product on the air in Cleveland that night.


Congratulations, hookbill! If your guys clinch, you'll be able to see it!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14821097
> 
> 
> Oh, if you expand the "Dodger fan base in Northeast Ohio" to "people who want to see the Red Sox get their tails beaten by the Dodgers in the World Series", I can't even fit all of you in this entire suburb. That's pretty much all of Northeast Ohio!



I'm simply amazed that WUAB picked it up. I mean whatever they had planned certainly couldn't bring in more ratings.










I checked www.zap2it.com ., it's confirmed. Thank you Michael P 2341.


By the way, I understand how you feel about the Red Sox and what happened last year. But certainly you do have to understand that the Boston Red Sox have been my American League team since 1969. Now if the Phillies somehow manage to win, which I can assure you they won't, then I'm afraid I will root for the Red Sox.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14821125
> 
> 
> Now if the Phillies somehow manage to win, which I can assure you they won't, then I'm afraid I will root for the Red Sox.



If that's the case, then we may just have to have you banned from these forums as well.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14821125
> 
> 
> I'm simply amazed that WUAB picked it up. I mean whatever they had planned certainly couldn't bring in more ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I checked www.zap2it.com ., it's confirmed. Thank you Michael P 2341.



Yeah, so did I...see the second message right above yours







Thanks for picking it up, Michael!


My gut feeling is that FOX approached WUAB and offered it to them, as the MyNetwork TV affiliate in the market.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14821125
> 
> 
> By the way, I understand how you feel about the Red Sox and what happened last year. But certainly you do have to understand that the Boston Red Sox have been my American League team since 1969. Now if the Phillies somehow manage to win, which I can assure you they won't, then I'm afraid I will root for the Red Sox.



Go, Dodgers!










I actually used to like the Red Sox. And a friend of mine who lives in upstate New York, is a big Red Sox fan. He strains to hear the games late at night via a station in Hartford, CT. He comes by his Red Sox fandom from working a few years in Boston.


But when they finally won in 2004, and since...well, Red Sox Nation has become a mini-version of the Yankee fan base. They've earned some of that, for all the enmity the Yankee fans have aimed at them over the years... but they're starting to act entitled. And yes, the ALCS last year didn't help matters re: the Red Sox and Indians.


My friend, obviously, is excluded in that assessment of mine. He came down here last season and we actually watched an Indians/Red Sox game at Jacobs Field. Well, it was still Jacobs Field at that time.


I think he's immune to it because he's not actually from Massachusetts.







Oh, and his father is a Detroit Tigers fan.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14821212
> 
> 
> Yeah, so did I...see the second message right above yours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for picking it up, Michael!
> 
> 
> My gut feeling is that FOX approached WUAB and offered it to them, as the MyNetwork TV affiliate in the market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go, Dodgers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually used to like the Red Sox. And a friend of mine who lives in upstate New York, is a big Red Sox fan. He strains to hear the games late at night via a station in Hartford, CT. He comes by his Red Sox fandom from working a few years in Boston.
> 
> 
> But when they finally won in 2004, and since...well, Red Sox Nation has become a mini-version of the Yankee fan base. They've earned some of that, for all the enmity the Yankee fans have aimed at them over the years... but they're starting to act entitled. And yes, the ALCS last year didn't help matters re: the Red Sox and Indians.
> 
> 
> My friend, obviously, is excluded in that assessment of mine. He came down here last season and we actually watched an Indians/Red Sox game at Jacobs Field. Well, it was still Jacobs Field at that time.
> 
> 
> I think he's immune to it because he's not actually from Massachusetts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and his father is a Detroit Tigers fan.



When the Tribe played against the Red Sox last year I rooted for the Tribe, although it was tough for me to do so. My reason for that is that the Indians are one of the teams that many people in the nation do not hate. The Cubs, The Indians. I don't know very many people who felt sympathy for the White Sox.


And the Cubs were one of the first teams that started broadcasting nationally. The Braves did as well, but nobody I knew ever felt sorry for the Braves and you have to remember that the Braves were a very very bad team for many years. I remember reading an article in the Los Angeles Times that said "The TBS in WTBS must mean terrible baseball station.







"


I understand now that the Red Sox have the "swagger", the Dodgers did too for many years. And let's not even talk about the Yankees! The Red Sox Nation developed over time, I can tell you for a fact that there are many Red Sox Fans in Southern California and have been for a number of years. I use to go out to Anaheim Stadium with my Red Sox cap and I was far from alone.


So I think in this country the team everybody would like to see win it all some day would be the Cubs and the Indians. The problem is the Tribe had it's chance but blew it in the 90's. The Cubs are just plain cursed. That's it. There is no logical reason for a team that won more games then anybody else in the league to go out and get swept by a team who won their division and was just a few games over .500.


Well, really there is. First the Dodgers are a "charmed" team even though they haven't gone to the World Series for 20 years. And then there is the "Manny" factor. I read the L.A. Times daily and I can't tell you how he has charmed the city and ignited that team. Manny being Manny is a force to be reckoned.


Edited to add: One thing I would never do is go to Jacobs Field, or Progressive Field or whatever and root for the Red Sox against the Indians.


What I do in the privacy of my own home however, is my business.


----------



## hookbill

FOX 8 news this morning is telling people that the NLCS game 4 will be on WUAB.


Me thinks I was not the only one who was not pleased by them having the Browns instead of baseball.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14821120
> 
> 
> The listing for the NLCS game says "HD", though that's probably just a carryover from the FOX main listing. I have no idea if WUAB can pick up the HD feed.



I would be very surprised if WUAB had the Dodgers game in HD. They've never shown a Cavs game in HD when those are simulcast on FSN Ohio in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14823458
> 
> 
> I would be very surprised if WUAB had the Dodgers game in HD. They've never shown a Cavs game in HD when those are simulcast on FSN Ohio in HD.



Slightly different situation on this one. The question is, can they splice into the FOX feed or pick it up independently.


Since they will be showing the FOX feed I would suspect it would be in HD.


Now if Cavs games are in HD on FOX SPORTS HD then you may be correct.


We will find out Monday.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14823504
> 
> 
> Slightly different situation on this one. The question is, can they splice into the FOX feed or pick it up independently.
> 
> 
> Since they will be showing the FOX feed I would suspect it would be in HD.
> 
> 
> Now if Cavs games are in HD on FOX SPORTS HD then you may be correct.
> 
> 
> We will find out Monday.



Something to keep in mind here, as you seem to already know based on your wording: FOX (TV network) and FOX Sports Ohio are two different entities.


They're both ultimately owned by FOX, as is MyNetwork TV, but the electronics aren't at all interconnected.


i.e. When FOX 8 plays highlights of a Cavs game on FSN Ohio, they record it off the TV feed like everyone else.


Someone noted elsewhere on AVS Forum that MyNetwork TV does not use the "FOX Splicer" system. While FOX controls MNTV, I'm presuming they can't send down a special FOX HD feed only to WUAB.


I CAN see them, though, loaning WUAB a regular FOX HD receiver just for that night. Whether WUAB can get that on the air or not, well, I don't know.


My guess: If it's FOX driving this bus, the game's in HD Monday night. If it's WUAB driving this bus, the game won't be.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14823931
> 
> 
> 
> Someone noted elsewhere on AVS Forum that MyNetwork TV does not use the "FOX Splicer" system. While FOX controls MNTV, I'm presuming they can't send down a special FOX HD feed only to WUAB.
> 
> 
> I CAN see them, though, loaning WUAB a regular FOX HD receiver just for that night. Whether WUAB can get that on the air or not, well, I don't know.
> 
> 
> My guess: If it's FOX driving this bus, the game's in HD Monday night. If it's WUAB driving this bus, the game won't be.



That's a good point. FOX's HD feed is very network controlled with the splicer system. Simple things like putting up a weather warning on WJW requires a drop to SD. Affiliates basically cannot "touch" the HD feed, it is passed through as it comes down. If it's being piped over to WUAB, I'd wager that it will be SD, since that is less restricted(It can be recorded and manipulated by the station).


----------



## nickdawg

Also noteworthy: I'm watching channel 5 news at noon and as they went to commercial the video for a story about Dancing With the Stars was in HD. If we can have Dancing clips in HD maybe the sports highlights will be going HD as well.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14824423
> 
> 
> Also noteworthy: I'm watching channel 5 news at noon and as they went to commercial the video for a story about Dancing With the Stars was in HD. If we can have Dancing clips in HD maybe the sports highlights will be going HD as well.



Maybe, maybe not. We know WEWS can record HD for "Wheel" and "Jeopardy", but that clip could well have just been played out of an HD server recording off the ABC satellite feed. They just could have told the control room to roll back a random section of "DWTS".


The news/sports editing systems are different animals.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, in regards to my recent firewire concern, I just got a call from TWC after my email to Mr. Fry and indeed the 8300HDC doesn't have the ports fully enabled. Though the 8300HD and 4250 boxes do and I should be getting the 8300HD delivered to replace the HDC. Hopefully this will also get me off the horrendously slow MDN firmware.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14826122
> 
> 
> Well, in regards to my recent firewire concern, I just got a call from TWC after my email to Mr. Fry and indeed the 8300HDC doesn't have the ports fully enabled. Though the 8300HD and 4250 boxes do and I should be getting the 8300HD delivered to replace the HDC. Hopefully this will also get me off the horrendously slow MDN firmware.



Good for you. The more I read about the HDC the worst it gets. I now find out that just like with SARA there is no priority in setting up your shows.


Now the way SARA handled this was totally unacceptable. Let's say you have two shows scheduled at 8:00 pm on Wednesday. But for some reason Survivor gets scheduled for a Wednesday instead of it's usual Thursday spot. SARA's reaction: Don't record anything!


Another reason why SARA is a pos. I don't know if the HDC does the same thing but I know it does not have priority settings.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14824454
> 
> 
> Maybe, maybe not. We know WEWS can record HD for "Wheel" and "Jeopardy", but that clip could well have just been played out of an HD server recording off the ABC satellite feed. They just could have told the control room to roll back a random section of "DWTS".
> 
> 
> The news/sports editing systems are different animals.



I sent WUAB an email asking them if it will be shown in HD. I expect to get an answer from them Monday, around 8:00 pm.










While I'm on the subject it looks like I won't be able to watch the game on Thursday anyway due to the fact that I have recordings for that night. But I do have an additional HDTV upstairs so I will be getting some excersise that night.


Hopefully it won't give me a heart attack.


Friday I don't see a problem.


----------



## hookbill

Did anyone watch this episode OTA or record it? It was an absolute mess, sound with a grey screen then you would get about 2 minutes of picture followed by freezes, with sound continuing.


I haven't looked at Supernatural yet. Did WBNX HD have some problems that day?


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, you should check to see if you're getting Universal HD. You should be getting it. I still am and I don't believe it is part of their "higher tier" any longer.


Channel 470


----------



## Cathode Kid

WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14841876
> 
> 
> nickdawg, you should check to see if you're getting Universal HD. You should be getting it. I still am and I don't believe it is part of their "higher tier" any longer.
> 
> 
> Channel 470



Nope. I get the "Call Customer Care" message and phone number on channel 470. Do you have the HDTV tier? If not it must be some kind of mistake.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14842575
> 
> 
> Nope. I get the "Call Customer Care" message and phone number on channel 470. Do you have the HDTV tier? If not it must be some kind of mistake.



No, I dropped it. I did that a week and a half ago and you said it would be short lived, but i posted a link showing the following: *Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill*


Now notice the date of that post. 4/20/07.


So if I were you I'd call TWC and ask whats up, because apparently it is no longer on that tier.


The listings for TWC still show it on the HD Tier, but I don't think it really is anymore. Probably if you're new you would get it and if you didn't have the HD Tier before you still don't get it.


Just another way that "Time Warner - We think like you do" works.


----------



## Vchat20

Well this is a fine kettle of fish.


Had a tech out today to swap out this 8300HDC for the 8300HD. All he had on the truck was the HDC's brand new in box and his contractor's warehouse didn't have any of the 8300HD's available either. Though he was very knowledgeable about what I was after and suggested I try the local office here to see if they had any.


Ok. Go to the local service center and after waiting nearly half an hour on an irate customer holding up the works for the past /2/ hours, I go up and simply explain I had a tech out, didn't have the box, so was looking for one here. And I mentioned I specifically needed the 8300HD because it was the only DVR they have that has the firewire ports enabled (I won't even bother explaining the MDN garbage/speed issue. I'd half expect them to tell me to go pound sand on that one.








). Clerk said they only had 8300HDC's in as well and they only really re-release the 8300HD's to areas that cannot support the HDC hardware.


All in all I was calm about the situation because for the most part I understand the bureaucracy these people have to go through just to do their job. At least I still am in contact with Miss Watkins from the NEO headquarters and am gonna see this through till I can actually get an 8300HD in my hands AND provisioned.


But in addition to this bit of 'fun', it made me realize a step TW seems to be taking that I have long clamored for elsewhere and that is they seem to be dropping all of their SD set-tops and only sending out HD boxes even for SD customers. The nice part is that the HD boxes are perfectly capable of outputting a standard SD picture through RF, Composite, or S-Video and can even downconvert HD channels to view on SD televisions. This actually gives them an excuse, IF they can clear out all of the SD boxes in the field currently AND if they are smart enough at that point, to start dumping SD channels that have simulcast HD equivalents and relieve some bandwidth. Yeah, letterboxing and all, I think your average joe can just live with it in the name of pushing forward technologically.


On the ugh side though, I REALLY hope they can improve the performance of these things if they plan to put them out there on such a widespread basis. Even my old SA8000 w/Passport wasn't THIS slow.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14843060
> 
> 
> 
> But in addition to this bit of 'fun', it made me realize a step TW seems to be taking that I have long clamored for elsewhere and that is they seem to be dropping all of their SD set-tops and only sending out HD boxes even for SD customers. The nice part is that the HD boxes are perfectly capable of outputting a standard SD picture through RF, Composite, or S-Video and can even downconvert HD channels to view on SD televisions. This actually gives them an excuse, IF they can clear out all of the SD boxes in the field currently AND if they are smart enough at that point, to start dumping SD channels that have simulcast HD equivalents and relieve some bandwidth. Yeah, letterboxing and all, I think your average joe can just live with it in the name of pushing forward technologically.



Does that mean I could take back my old Pioneer SD only box and get an HDTV set top box for the bedroom, even though I do not have an HDTV? I was going to go to local TWC and lie that I got another HDTV just to get one for the bedroom(since a newer SA box would smoke an old Pioneer POS) but I never got around to it?


----------



## Vchat20

I'm not 100% sure if that's what they are doing, but it sure as heck seems like the 8300HDC is the absolute only model set-top, SD or HD, that they are stocking up on anymore. Wouldn't hurt to try really.


----------



## PCTools

Well, those transmitters in Cleveland / Akron are still making their way to Bryan, OH. Can't beat that free Digital OTA.


Ch55 - My favorite

Ch43 - could use a power boost.

- Any updates?

 

The Monster[1].pdf 359.7255859375k . file


----------



## PCTools

Just get a mammoth antenna, and go to the Detroit market.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14814204
> 
> 
> I doubt it. And even if it does, do you expect more HD on 10/21?
> 
> 
> I personally like Channel 3 news better, but in the morning it's off by 7:00 am and in the evening it doesn't start until 6:00 pm.
> 
> 
> Anyway it's not FOX 8 news I'm pissed at, it's the fact that the new FOX 8 decided to show a game that was already available on ESPN instead of the National League Championship.
> 
> 
> FWIW they are now distributing the digital converters in Pittsburgh. From what I heard they work quite well.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14843545
> 
> 
> I'm not 100% sure if that's what they are doing, but it sure as heck seems like the 8300HDC is the absolute only model set-top, SD or HD, that they are stocking up on anymore. Wouldn't hurt to try really.



Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the _only_ STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14843659
> 
> 
> Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the _only_ STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?



Honestly, no clue how they do the billing for something like that myself. I'd hope the 'DVR service' charge would only be made once and then the individual set-top fees, but then again this is TW we're talking about. Though if anyone DOES know how they manage this, please do let us all know. I know my mom has been asking about a DVR for her bedroom just for her soap operas and it'd be a much easier catch if it only added another set-top fee to the bill.


As far as non-dvr set-tops, I haven't seen any BUT the Pioneer or the older SA4250 (which I was offered as a firewire capable box). Everything else is all DVR fare in one way or another. 8000, 8000HD (don't even think they ever had these, but SA made them), 8300, 8300HD, 8300/8240HDC. With the one-size-fits-all design of Mystro/Navigator, I'd theorize they can just switch the DVR functionality off and on at the headend on the DVR boxes.


Actually, if you don't want DVR functionality, the SA4250 is the one you should aim for I'd bet as it's quite a step up from the ancient Pioneer's and those two are really the only ones I am aware of that TW still has around.


Either way, wouldn't hurt to simply ask what non-dvr model set-tops they have available? May get you some relevant info.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14843727
> 
> 
> Honestly, no clue how they do the billing for something like that myself. I'd hope the 'DVR service' charge would only be made once and then the individual set-top fees, but then again this is TW we're talking about. Though if anyone DOES know how they manage this, please do let us all know. I know my mom has been asking about a DVR for her bedroom just for her soap operas and it'd be a much easier catch if it only added another set-top fee to the bill.
> 
> 
> As far as non-dvr set-tops, I haven't seen any BUT the Pioneer or the older SA4250 (which I was offered as a firewire capable box). Everything else is all DVR fare in one way or another. 8000, 8000HD (don't even think they ever had these, but SA made them), 8300, 8300HD, 8300/8240HDC. With the one-size-fits-all design of Mystro/Navigator, I'd theorize they can just switch the DVR functionality off and on at the headend on the DVR boxes.
> 
> 
> Actually, if you don't want DVR functionality, the SA4250 is the one you should aim for I'd bet as it's quite a step up from the ancient Pioneer's and those two are really the only ones I am aware of that TW still has around.
> 
> 
> Either way, wouldn't hurt to simply ask what non-dvr model set-tops they have available? May get you some relevant info.



Wow, I'm not sure what TWC office you go to, but the one here sucks. The "equipment" consists of several cabinets full of old crap Pioneer boxes. A few months back my mom went to trade in an old Pioneer box that turned to crap after Mystro came(slowUI/guide, rebooted often) and what she got was the same thing, although it works better*. *Better meaning that it no longer freezes up or reboots as much. Downside is the box was dirty. Yes, the card slot on the front and the crevices around the buttons had some dirt in them. I found it deplorable that they would give out crappy, used equipment. I have very little hope for TWC. I've just become content with my POS Pioneer box. At least it works decently.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14842291
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?



Not a peep of a signal here 20 miles out from the antenna farm, on either of my Zenith/Insignia CECBs.


Of course, I am only using indoor antennas, and neither happen to be pointed actually at Parma. The Zenith is so good, I generally can just aim it even out my window in the other direction and get all the local UHF digitals.


I'll move one of 'em tomorrow and see, but I don't expect much.


The one pointed at Youngstown (where the window is) is actually locking on WKBN-DT for the first time ever tonight. It's not an incredibly solid signal, but enough to decode most of the time. I assume it's driven by atmospherics, and won't be a regular...the antenna is in the same position it has been.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14843811
> 
> 
> Wow, I'm not sure what TWC office you go to, but the one here sucks.



Which office, the one at Midway Plaza? I think that's the one that used to be just south of Chapel Hill, up the road a bit on Brittain.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14843060
> 
> 
> Well this is a fine kettle of fish.
> 
> 
> Had a tech out today to swap out this 8300HDC for the 8300HD. All he had on the truck was the HDC's brand new in box and his contractor's warehouse didn't have any of the 8300HD's available either. Though he was very knowledgeable about what I was after and suggested I try the local office here to see if they had any.
> 
> 
> Ok. Go to the local service center and after waiting nearly half an hour on an irate customer holding up the works for the past /2/ hours, I go up and simply explain I had a tech out, didn't have the box, so was looking for one here. And I mentioned I specifically needed the 8300HD because it was the only DVR they have that has the firewire ports enabled (I won't even bother explaining the MDN garbage/speed issue. I'd half expect them to tell me to go pound sand on that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Clerk said they only had 8300HDC's in as well and they only really re-release the 8300HD's to areas that cannot support the HDC hardware.
> 
> 
> All in all I was calm about the situation because for the most part I understand the bureaucracy these people have to go through just to do their job. At least I still am in contact with Miss Watkins from the NEO headquarters and am gonna see this through till I can actually get an 8300HD in my hands AND provisioned.
> 
> 
> But in addition to this bit of 'fun', it made me realize a step TW seems to be taking that I have long clamored for elsewhere and that is they seem to be dropping all of their SD set-tops and only sending out HD boxes even for SD customers. The nice part is that the HD boxes are perfectly capable of outputting a standard SD picture through RF, Composite, or S-Video and can even downconvert HD channels to view on SD televisions. This actually gives them an excuse, IF they can clear out all of the SD boxes in the field currently AND if they are smart enough at that point, to start dumping SD channels that have simulcast HD equivalents and relieve some bandwidth. Yeah, letterboxing and all, I think your average joe can just live with it in the name of pushing forward technologically.
> 
> 
> On the ugh side though, I REALLY hope they can improve the performance of these things if they plan to put them out there on such a widespread basis. Even my old SA8000 w/Passport wasn't THIS slow.



Forgive me if I don't have the story correct from the beginning.


If I recall this started with an email to [email protected] . If it didn't then it needs to now.


If if it did and this is the results you got you can try the steve fry card again but there might not be anything they can do about it if they don't have the boxes available. I was guaranteed I would have an "M" card for my TiVo HD by my local area manager after playing the Fry card but they only had S cards available.


Fact: the majority of people who have DVR's have no idea what a firewall port is or why you would need one. Therefore as they replace the old machines with the HDC, you get what you get.


So to be honest it looks like your SOL.


Now the only other alternative of course is to get a TiVo HD which doesn't have an active firewall port but does communicate with your coomputer and allows transfers of files, provided they are not protected. Sinc TW, who "Thinks like we do" in there infinite wisdom decided to say "screw them all, let's just put everything digital on copy once" that limits you IF you use a lot of digital channels.


I don't. And the HD channels I use for transfers are not restricted.


In addition you can set up schedule priorities which the HDC does not do.


Now it's no secret I'm a TiVo Fanboy but to be fair I always tell people this: Are you satisfied with the DVR you have now? If you are then don't buy a TiVo.


But if you are not satisfied, then step into the light, son. And see the possibilities you never even thought were there.


Now on to other things:


Yes we are down by two games but it takes 4 to win the series!










We will win 3 at home and finish them in the 7th game in front of their fans. And what a God awful park that is!


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I emailed Mr. Fry which started this string of events. I at least got a firm explanation of what boxes they DID have with firewire enabled which are just the 8300HD and the 4250 (latter is non-DVR). And between of the FCC's retarded regulation pushing them to use outboard encryption equipment (read: cablecards even on their own owned set-tops as are the HDC models) and their anemic mess with Navigator/Mystro, it's starting to look real SOL at this point.


I'm certainly not against Tivo in any way truth be told. It just happens I don't have the required disposable funds at a single point in time to afford one. If I did, I'd already have an S3 in my posession.







I may just have to buckle down and start putting aside money to get one and hopefully when I do, the tuning resolver will be around.


Back when I boarded with a friend of mine who had DirecTV, we had considered getting a DirecTivo for one reason and one reason only: Direct transfer of shows over to a PC without the digital-to-analog-to-digital step. And that is where I am with now with TW. I can easily pull stuff off the DVR with an analog capture card, but that eliminates HD programming and even SD programming I need tons of drive space for good quality recording (~30GB uncompressed for 30 minutes at full 720x480x29.97fps interlaced, 48khz, 16 bit, stereo PCM audio. Runs about 28MB/s iirc.) and the capture card eats up cpu cycles like mad if I try anything but uncompressed video in realtime. And that's not to mention the inherent extra steps into the analog realm.


In any case, I did send another email back to the person at the NEO HQ in Canton I've been in talks with through Fry's email about today's situation and awaiting to see if anything promising comes out of that. Not holding my breath though tbh.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14844089
> 
> 
> Yeah. I emailed Mr. Fry which started this string of events. I at least got a firm explanation of what boxes they DID have with firewire enabled which are just the 8300HD and the 4250 (latter is non-DVR). And between of the FCC's retarded regulation pushing them to use outboard encryption equipment (read: cablecards even on their own owned set-tops as are the HDC models) and their anemic mess with Navigator/Mystro, it's starting to look real SOL at this point.
> 
> 
> I'm certainly not against Tivo in any way truth be told. It just happens I don't have the required disposable funds at a single point in time to afford one. If I did, I'd already have an S3 in my posession.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may just have to buckle down and start putting aside money to get one and hopefully when I do, the tuning resolver will be around.
> 
> 
> Back when I boarded with a friend of mine who had DirecTV, we had considered getting a DirecTivo for one reason and one reason only: Direct transfer of shows over to a PC without the digital-to-analog-to-digital step. And that is where I am with now with TW. I can easily pull stuff off the DVR with an analog capture card, but that eliminates HD programming and even SD programming I need tons of drive space for good quality recording (~30GB uncompressed for 30 minutes at full 720x480x29.97fps interlaced, 48khz, 16 bit, stereo PCM audio. Runs about 28MB/s iirc.) and the capture card eats up cpu cycles like mad if I try anything but uncompressed video in realtime. And that's not to mention the inherent extra steps into the analog realm.
> 
> 
> In any case, I did send another email back to the person at the NEO HQ in Canton I've been in talks with through Fry's email about today's situation and awaiting to see if anything promising comes out of that. Not holding my breath though tbh.



Just an FYI TiVo has struck a deal with D*. Now I have no idea when this is going to happen but word has it that the new deal will have some form of Home Media which means access to computer.


But that's in the distant future, still something to think about. Sounds like you're on the right path, good luck. And if you are successfull in obtaining any different DVR please remember to tie the SA 8300 HDC to your bumper and return it to TW that way.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14843659
> 
> 
> Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the _only_ STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?



Tell me it's the economy. You're so tight you squeak.


Are you related to Jack Benny?


Do you know who Jack Benny is?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14842291
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?



Nope. All Cleveland station towers are 10 miles or less to me (antennaweb.org) and not even a hint of a WVIZ-DT signal here. Outdoor rooftop antenna, second floor, no problem picking up all other Cleveland DT stations in the past.


Although now after rescanning to try to pick up WVIZ-DT I've now lost 19-1.










Life isn't worth living without 19 Action News!


I thought WVIZ wasn't doing this till November? VIZ ahead of schedule? That's about as likely as a Fed takeover of our banking system..........oh.......wait..........


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14844212
> 
> 
> Life isn't worth living without 19 Action News!



























I do agree that is good for comic relief.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14842291
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?



Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to try it when I get home. Since I can see the WKYC tower from my back yard this should be a no-brainer. Even though I'm only 3 miles from the old Brookpark Rd. location I had to aim my Silver Sensor at a specific spot and hold it in order to get a lock on VIZ DT. There was no convenient spot for my antenna where VIZ would come in continuously without dropping out. That signal was so weak that the leaves on the trees messed up the signal.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PCTools* /forum/post/14843658
> 
> 
> Just get a mammoth antenna, and go to the Detroit market.



As previously posted the Monday night NLCS game is being carrried on WUAB.


BTW we have another source for FOX, albeit it's only SD 98% of the time: WYFX out of Youngstown on the subchannel of WKBN-DT (27-2). They did create an HD subchannel for the Super Bowl and IIRC one other time by putting the main WKBN / CBS channel in SD.


With DT signals markets like Detroit are not that easy to catch anymore. For example the DT signal for WXYZ the ABC station is on rf ch 41. WKBN-DT out of Youngstown is also on rf 41 and it's coverage map includes a good chunk of Greater Cleveland (and it covers Pittsburgh too







).


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14843659
> 
> 
> Uh-oh. The 8300HDC is the _only_ STB? Does that mean you cannot get a regular non-DVR box anymore? I cringe at paying $7 extra DVR fee for another box. Does anyone have two DVRs? How do they bill?



Time Warner has HD boxes that are not DVRs, I pick one up about a week or so ago.I think they charge $8 a month.


----------



## JJkizak

I re-scanned and now have 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. OTA Twinsburg outside antenna. I also have 26.12 and 26.13 with no signal. I also have 2.1 duplicating 3.1 and 2.2 duplicating 3.2.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14844212
> 
> 
> I thought WVIZ wasn't doing this till November? VIZ ahead of schedule?



It's easier to climb a tower in October than in November.










This isn't their final full-power move; that still happens later.


----------



## hookbill

You know I posted last week about my recording of Smallville on 9/25 and apparently nobody else had problems. I got one response from someone who lives in the Cleveland area and he said it came through fine and that was on the "Smallville" thread in the programming area.


I hate mysteries like this. This points at my TiVo S3 as I recorded Supernatural right afterwards on my TiVo HD and not one problem. However on my TiVo S3 I had about 6 shows recorded that night and only one problem.


I guess I'll never find out. If I see it again this week on Smallville then something weird is happening.


My best guess is whatever card that was receiving that show must have had some difficulties with the TW signal.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14845705
> 
> 
> My best guess is whatever card that was receiving that show must have had some difficulties with the TW signal.



If you're only having trouble with one program on a particular channel, that points away from the cable company as they simply pass along the entire program stream without modification. This might be one of those mpeg continuity issues from the source.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14845753
> 
> 
> If you're only having trouble with one program on a particular channel, that points away from the cable company as they simply pass along the entire program stream without modification. This might be one of those mpeg continuity issues from the source.



It seems to me that from what I see here that anyone who recorded this show would have this problem. So if you would be kind enough to elaborate?


----------



## Michael P 2341

I'm getting a 100% signal on rf 26. I'm now getting all the subchannels of WVIZ! No guide data, however. This is on a E* 622. As posted earlier, I can see the tower from my back yard so I'm not surprised by the strength of the signal.


For those of you who still are not getting a lock, keep trying! The tower is in the extereme northeast portion of the Parma antenna farm, on Broadview just up the hill from Ridgewood.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14845836
> 
> 
> It seems to me that from what I see here that anyone who recorded this show would have this problem. So if you would be kind enough to elaborate?



If a single program has problems, it can be caused by mpeg splicing errors where a continuity counter gets messed up, or worse, the PID gets trashed. When a digital tuner locks onto a pid and it changes in midstream, the receiver things the program disappeared.


I don't have any of the specifics of this instance at my fingertips so I'm only guessing based on the symptom. It does seem that everyone would have a problem with this, at least if they're running the same type of recorder with the same firmware. Different recorders recover from these errors differently.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14845839
> 
> 
> I'm getting a 100% signal on rf 26. I'm now getting all the subchannels of WVIZ! No guide data, however. This is on a E* 622.



Great news, Michael! Thanks.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14842291
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?



Picking up a weak, unstable signal here in Canton via antenna on a 50' tower, not enough for actual video reception as I'd expected. Suppose that's improvement though as previously there was never even a hint of signal from WVIZ-DT.


----------



## Michael P 2341

For all of you who wished they had an alternative to cable but were told that they did not have a LOS to the satellites:


You may be interested in knowing that Dish Network has started using a different part of space called the "Eastern Arc". The orbital locations are 61.5, 72.7 & 77 degrees west. From NE Ohio that would be southeast, as opposed to the current southwest orientation.


Only new customers in the eastern part of the country are elligible for this new service which will be an all MPEG-4 service. Both SD & HD channels currently on the Western arc in MPEG-2 or 4 are now being uplinked to this new orbital location. The "big 4" Cleveland locals are alreaady available on 61.5 to anyone subscribing to the current SD locals @110 with an MPEG-4 HD receiver. They plan on carrying the rest of the locals soon, however the current receivers also have a built-in ATSC OTA tuner for the stations not yet carried (and also for the subchannels of stations already carried). FSN Ohio HD and STO HD are also available (for now just during games).


AND JUST TO BE FAIR: I also read that Direc TV has a similar situation in the 99 degree neighborhood. I just read that 119 & 110 (which are shared by both DBS providers) are no longer needed for D* MPEG-4 receivers.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14844764
> 
> 
> I re-scanned and now have 25.1, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. OTA Twinsburg outside antenna. I also have 26.12 and 26.13 with no signal. I also have 2.1 duplicating 3.1 and 2.2 duplicating 3.2.
> 
> JJK



Well I too tried rescanning and I'm getting all the same VIZ DT's (1,2,3,4) but the signals are all quite weak.







Any chance they may bump the signal up while they tweak the new (temporary) tower location?


What is 25-9 CRRS? This wasn't present on any of my scans the last two years. It's too weak of a signal for me to lock on properly though.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14846221
> 
> 
> Well I too tried rescanning and I'm getting all the same VIZ DT's (1,2,3,4) but the signals are all quite weak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance they may bump the signal up while they tweak the new (temporary) tower location?
> 
> 
> What is 25-9 CRRS? This wasn't present on any of my scans the last two years. It's too weak of a signal for me to lock on properly though.



25-9 CRRS is an audio-only service for the blind. It used to be carried on an FM station's subcarrier years ago. It has been a part of WVIZ-DT from the beginning. I used to get it on my old 921 (but many audio only services froze up that old buggy box). Basically they read the newspaper and perhaps other print media as a service to the visually impaired community. It's not on 24/7, I guess you need to get a schedule to know when something is on.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14846221
> 
> 
> Well I too tried rescanning and I'm getting all the same VIZ DT's (1,2,3,4) but the signals are all quite weak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance they may bump the signal up while they tweak the new (temporary) tower location?



They'll increase to full power when the new tower (adjacent to the existing one) is finished. Thery're using a temporary transmitter right now, just to carry them through until the final transition. Sit tight - it'll get better.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14846314
> 
> 
> 25-9 CRRS is an audio-only service for the blind. It used to be carried on an FM station's subcarrier years ago. It has been a part of WVIZ-DT from the beginning. I used to get it on my old 921 (but many audio only services froze up that old buggy box). Basically they read the newspaper and perhaps other print media as a service to the visually impaired community. It's not on 24/7, I guess you need to get a schedule to know when something is on.



I guess that would explain why I was only getting spotty audio and no video.










Although, I must say, their black color depth & resolution is STUNNING!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14846334
> 
> 
> They'll increase to full power when the new tower (adjacent to the existing one) is finished. Thery're using a temporary transmitter right now, just to carry them through until the final transition. Sit tight - it'll get better.



Is that tower in the process of physically being constructed yet? The new WKYC/WVIZ tower, that is...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14846072
> 
> 
> For all of you who wished they had an alternative to cable but were told that they did not have a LOS to the satellites:
> 
> 
> You may be interested in knowing that Dish Network has started using a different part of space called the "Eastern Arc". The orbital locations are 61.5, 72.7 & 77 degrees west. From NE Ohio that would be southeast, as opposed to the current southwest orientation.
> 
> 
> Only new customers in the eastern part of the country are elligible for this new service which will be an all MPEG-4 service. Both SD & HD channels currently on the Western arc in MPEG-2 or 4 are now being uplinked to this new orbital location. The "big 4" Cleveland locals are alreaady available on 61.5 to anyone subscribing to the current SD locals @110 with an MPEG-4 HD receiver. They plan on carrying the rest of the locals soon, however the current receivers also have a built-in ATSC OTA tuner for the stations not yet carried (and also for the subchannels of stations already carried). FSN Ohio HD and STO HD are also available (for now just during games).
> 
> 
> AND JUST TO BE FAIR: I also read that Direc TV has a similar situation in the 99 degree neighborhood. I just read that 119 & 110 (which are shared by both DBS providers) are no longer needed for D* MPEG-4 receivers.



LOL. Yeah, I guess I gripe a great deal about cable companies. No doubt.


From what you're saying however I'm still stuck. About this time of the year the Sun is rising in the South East and by my observations, once again, too many trees.


Anyway I'm kind of commited at this point equipment wise. I have a lifetime subscription on my TiVo HD and with SDV coming and the tuner adapter I don't know if I would be willing to make the change.


Add the fact that it's Dish. I'm not certain how good their DVR is. I know they are still in a law suit with TiVo, at least last I heard for stealing some of the designs Tivo uses.


But I do appreciate you letting us know. It may be something to think about further on down the line.


----------



## nickdawg

Anybody else seeing freezing/stuttering on WUAB DT (406)? I'm watching Family Guy right now and it's stopping every few minutes.


----------



## nickdawg

Also on WUAB, another reason I am choosing that B.O. model on November 4th. The commercial was shown in letterbox and old file video used had sidebars on it. The BO model supports original aspect ratio(OAR). Sometimes on letterboxed commercials the creator is tempted to "stretch" older 4:3 content or photos to fill the 16:9 frame. Bravo, BO!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14846828
> 
> 
> Anybody else seeing freezing/stuttering on WUAB DT (406)? I'm watching Family Guy right now and it's stopping every few minutes.



Your lucky I like you. I just wasted 10 minutes (maybe only 5) of my time watching commercials, which is why I have a DVR and no, everything looks fine.


How come nobody told me The 4400 got cancelled!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14846860
> 
> 
> Bravo, BO!




Why does this statement from you not surprise me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14846866
> 
> 
> Your lucky I like you. I just wasted 10 minutes (maybe only 5) of my time watching commercials, which is why I have a DVR and no, everything looks fine.
> 
> 
> How come nobody told me The 4400 got cancelled!



Now I'm watching House on 408 and it's acting just like WUAB.


What does the 440 have to do with this?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14846739
> 
> 
> Is that tower in the process of physically being constructed yet? The new WKYC/WVIZ tower, that is...



I believe so although I'm not 100% positive. If I was doing it I'd certainly want to get the footers planted before the ground freezes.


----------



## paule123

Picking up WVIZ-DT OTA here in Shaker Heights on my D* HR20. Austin City Limits in HD, looks good. The HR20 shows 25-1 through 25-4 in the guide. Signal strength seems to be borderline, with a few breakups.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14848305
> 
> 
> I believe so although I'm not 100% positive. If I was doing it I'd certainly want to get the footers planted before the ground freezes.



I was up there recently...with my laptop in the Kmart parking lot on Broadview Road, picking up the TSReader capture of WKYC-DT for Trip here.


I drove by the 'KYC site on the way up to WVIZ's apparently now former temporary DT site, and didn't see anything obvious as far as the new joint tower goes...but it's tough to look past all those trees down into the WKYC site while driving past. You can see the big towers and most of the building, but not really anything down on the road level itself.


I'm guessing another laptop-equipped DT tuner trip to that parking lot would net me WVIZ's new temporary 10KW signal. But I'll move one of the CECB's up into the loft first, and aim at Parma...


----------



## Inundated

OK, I just moved one of my two CECBs (Zenith/Insignia) up to the loft, and brought my best amplified indoor antenna to its best shot at the antenna farm.


It may well be a reflected signal, but 26 is indeed lighting up with *something* for the first time ever here. It's not enough to even try to "lock" (below 50%), but there's signal there - and no tuner or converter box or TV I've ever had picked up even a HINT of signal from WVIZ-DT before tonight.


I also managed to get a brief lock on WKBN-DT, even though the window isn't favorable in that direction. Oddly enough, the antenna placement is the same for both WKBN-DT and WVIZ-DT. For some reason, I get nothing if I aim the antenna directly out towards Parma for WVIZ-DT, which is why I mentioned "reflected" signal.


I already had it locking WKBN-DT, occasionally, pointed towards Youngstown...as I mentioned in the Youngstown thread, I'm guessing it's an atmospheric quirk.


I left the box on manually-inserted 26-1, hoping at some point the PSIP detects strong enough overnight to at least populate it to 25-1 et al.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14847129
> 
> 
> Now I'm watching House on 408 and it's acting just like WUAB.
> 
> 
> What does the 440 have to do with this?



Then I would think that you may want to have your DVR or Box replaced if it continues.


And it's The 4400. I just didn't realize it was cancelled, it has nothing to do with this. Talk about leaving a show with no answers!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14848576
> 
> 
> OK, I just moved one of my two CECBs (Zenith/Insignia) up to the loft, and brought my best amplified indoor antenna to its best shot at the antenna farm.
> 
> 
> It may well be a reflected signal, but 26 is indeed lighting up with *something* for the first time ever here. It's not enough to even try to "lock" (below 50%), but there's signal there - and no tuner or converter box or TV I've ever had picked up even a HINT of signal from WVIZ-DT before tonight.
> 
> 
> I also managed to get a brief lock on WKBN-DT, even though the window isn't favorable in that direction. Oddly enough, the antenna placement is the same for both WKBN-DT and WVIZ-DT. For some reason, I get nothing if I aim the antenna directly out towards Parma for WVIZ-DT, which is why I mentioned "reflected" signal.
> 
> 
> I already had it locking WKBN-DT, occasionally, pointed towards Youngstown...as I mentioned in the Youngstown thread, I'm guessing it's an atmospheric quirk.
> 
> 
> I left the box on manually-inserted 26-1, hoping at some point the PSIP detects strong enough overnight to at least populate it to 25-1 et al.



Thanks, Inundated. Whereabouts are you picking this up from? Do you have the full version of TSReader or the Lite version?


----------



## Marshall Karp

New Philadelphia TWC here. Lost my 19-1 QAM, saying there is no signal. Anyone know what they are doing? Thanks.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14849094
> 
> 
> Then I would think that you may want to have your DVR or Box replaced if it continues.
> 
> 
> And it's The 4400. I just didn't realize it was cancelled, it has nothing to do with this. Talk about leaving a show with no answers!



It fixed itself later. ONce the episode of "House" was over, Cops and AMW worked fine, even local commercials. Flipped the channel at 10(to avoid FOX News), came back at 11 and Mad TV(digital widescreen) was OK as well.


When I changed the channel at 10, I went to WUAB for Action News at 10 and that was working OJ as well.


Must have been something with that show or a station or TWC problem that was fixed.


Now, now, hook. You know how I feel about my 8300HD(without the C at the end). They would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.







No way I'll take another 8300HD*C*!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14851251
> 
> 
> It fixed itself later. ONce the episode of "House" was over, Cops and AMW worked fine, even local commercials. Flipped the channel at 10(to avoid FOX News), came back at 11 and Mad TV(digital widescreen) was OK as well.
> 
> 
> When I changed the channel at 10, I went to WUAB for Action News at 10 and that was working OJ as well.
> 
> 
> Must have been something with that show or a station or TWC problem that was fixed.



FOX was having some major problems with the game earlier. Not just locally, all over the country.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14851251
> 
> 
> Now, now, hook. You know how I feel about my 8300HD(without the C at the end). They would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way I'll take another 8300HD*C*!!




Yeah, but if it ever does break down you know what you will get. But don't worry nickdawg, if that ever happens I'll bring you into the light so arn't stuck with that pos.


----------



## nickdawg

I'd like to get some feedback about other DVRs(Tivo, D*, E*, etc).


As you know, I'm a huge _Boston Legal_ fan. I was thrilled to see the first episode on WEWHD a few weeks back. I used to have it on VHS from years ago, but accidentally deleted it. Of course I DVRed it when it was on. Anyway, now that recording is eating a chunk of hard drive space(didn't plan on keeping it permanently on DVR) so I decided to dump it to VHS. When I connected the standard Y/W/R audio and video cables to the VCR, all I could get on WEWHD is a letterboxed picture. I tried changing all the settings(Aspect Ratio: 4x3, Picture Size: Zoom, Output Format: 480i). The changes were only applied to the output of the box on the component video channel, not the AV output or the RF output on channel 4. Basically I was hoping the 8300HD(or any other of TWC's HD boxes) would behave like a CECB where the output of HDTV signals was user-defined(to make a normal 4:3 picture, especially on "windowboxed" shows).


I always wanted to get a HDTV STB for my SDTVs back in the day before the networks moved the bugs. When the bugs were in their old position on the HD channels and there was no advertising, an adjustable output would have made it easy to cut off the bug and have a 4:3 bug free picture. Now that the bugs are moved, I wouldn't mind the bug, since the HD signal downconverted to SD looks much better than the regualr SDTV channel.


So my question is, how does your HDTV reception equipment work? Is there a variable SD output? I was very disappointed that I had to record Boston Legal in letterbox.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14851781
> 
> 
> I'd like to get some feedback about other DVRs(Tivo, D*, E*, etc).
> 
> 
> As you know, I'm a huge _Boston Legal_ fan. I was thrilled to see the first episode on WEWHD a few weeks back. I used to have it on VHS from years ago, but accidentally deleted it. Of course I DVRed it when it was on. Anyway, now that recording is eating a chunk of hard drive space(didn't plan on keeping it permanently on DVR) so I decided to dump it to VHS. When I connected the standard Y/W/R audio and video cables to the VCR, all I could get on WEWHD is a letterboxed picture. I tried changing all the settings(Aspect Ratio: 4x3, Picture Size: Zoom, Output Format: 480i). The changes were only applied to the output of the box on the component video channel, not the AV output or the RF output on channel 4. Basically I was hoping the 8300HD(or any other of TWC's HD boxes) would behave like a CECB where the output of HDTV signals was user-defined(to make a normal 4:3 picture, especially on "windowboxed" shows).
> 
> 
> I always wanted to get a HDTV STB for my SDTVs back in the day before the networks moved the bugs. When the bugs were in their old position on the HD channels and there was no advertising, an adjustable output would have made it easy to cut off the bug and have a 4:3 bug free picture. Now that the bugs are moved, I wouldn't mind the bug, since the HD signal downconverted to SD looks much better than the regualr SDTV channel.
> 
> 
> So my question is, how does your HDTV reception equipment work? Is there a variable SD output? I was very disappointed that I had to record Boston Legal in letterbox.



The only way you will get what you want with the equipment you have is to purchase Season 1 on DVD. Yes, you would have to spend money.


Or you can get an eSATA for more disk space. But anytime you tranfer HD to DVD unless it's an HD Recorder then that's what you are going to get.


Now with TiVo I can transfer it to my computer, my other TiVo. Also there is bit torrent, but since you can't access bit torrent without burning it to a DVD to play on your set, you get the same results. When I move something from bit torrent to TiVo it shows it in 16X9.


So either get eSATA, or purchase the darn season.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14849989
> 
> 
> Thanks, Inundated. Whereabouts are you picking this up from? Do you have the full version of TSReader or the Lite version?



I just have the Lite download. I only needed it to help Trip with the Cleveland market data captures. That's on my laptop with USB tuner, of course, not related to the CECB...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14851251
> 
> 
> When I changed the channel at 10, I went to WUAB for Action News at 10 and that was working OJ as well.



As bad as they are, I'm pretty sure O.J. isn't working at "Action News"...at last check, he was in a jail cell awaiting sentencing.




(Heh...couldn't resist!)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14852072
> 
> 
> I just have the Lite download. I only needed it to help Trip with the Cleveland market data captures. That's on my laptop with USB tuner, of course, not related to the CECB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As bad as they are, I'm pretty sure O.J. isn't working at "Action News"...at last check, he was in a jail cell awaiting sentencing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Heh...couldn't resist!)



What?


Ohhhhhhhh!!!







Took me a minute to get it. I said "OJ" instead of "OK".


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14848576
> 
> 
> OK, I just moved one of my two CECBs (Zenith/Insignia) up to the loft, and brought my best amplified indoor antenna to its best shot at the antenna farm.
> 
> 
> It may well be a reflected signal, but 26 is indeed lighting up with *something* for the first time ever here. It's not enough to even try to "lock" (below 50%), but there's signal there - and no tuner or converter box or TV I've ever had picked up even a HINT of signal from WVIZ-DT before tonight.
> 
> .




Notice this on the Zenith 901, need a 50% signal to lock, but then the signal can go lower.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14845839
> 
> 
> I'm getting a 100% signal on rf 26. I'm now getting all the subchannels of WVIZ! No guide data, however. This is on a E* 622. As posted earlier, I can see the tower from my back yard so I'm not surprised by the strength of the signal.
> 
> 
> For those of you who still are not getting a lock, keep trying! The tower is in the extereme northeast portion of the Parma antenna farm, on Broadview just up the hill from Ridgewood.



I figured with the nice WX they made this move prematurely, if indeed this is the 10KW xmitter, I guess I'll be waiting till next August as originally anticipated.







I was able to lock & map 25-1, -2, -3, -4 & -9 around 7PM Saturday evening with minimal pixalization , then it went blank never to return, I'm still picking up about a 10-30% signal, just a llittle better than I was from the old site on Brookpark, without a lock.


Michael, was not able to get any Guide data here either. ... strange around the same time 19 was pixalating & was down to a 30% signal.


Suprised that they are beaming this to the south as Akron's already is served by 45/49, I'm only 28 miles from the farm, a lot closer than Canton would likely be.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14852380
> 
> 
> I figured with the nice WX they made this move prematurely, if indeed this is the 10KW xmitter, I guess I'll be waiting till next August as originally anticipated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was able to lock & map 25-1, -2, -3, -4 & -9 around 7PM Saturday evening with minimal pixalization , then it went blank never to return, I'm still picking up about a 10-30% signal, just a llittle better than I was from the old site on Brookpark, without a lock.
> 
> 
> Michael, was not able to get any Guide data here either. ... strange around the same time 19 was pixalating & was down to a 30% signal.
> 
> 
> Suprised that they are beaming this to the south as Akron's already is served by 45/49, I'm only 28 miles from the farm, a lot closer than Canton would likely be.



This is indeed 10kw ERP. And they need to protect Canada.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14852532
> 
> 
> This is indeed 10kw ERP. And they need to protect Canada.



May has well be living in Canada up here... sigh!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14844212
> 
> 
> Nope. All Cleveland station towers are 10 miles or less to me (antennaweb.org) and not even a hint of a WVIZ-DT signal here. Outdoor rooftop antenna, second floor, no problem picking up all other Cleveland DT stations in the past.
> 
> 
> Although now after rescanning to try to pick up WVIZ-DT I've now lost 19-1.



Same here... what's up with 19?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14852532
> 
> 
> This is indeed 10kw ERP. And they need to protect Canada.



And WVIZ still serves Akron/Canton, even if they have competition down there. It's a full-market station that serves everywhere from Ashtabula to nearly Mansfield.


For that matter, though "Western Reserve PBS" is mostly focused at Akron/Canton/Youngstown, the 45/49 folks don't ignore Cleveland 100%.


I think many stations in the Parma antenna farm have Canadian issues, no? Since they don't really care about serving Lake Erie, they can pull in the protection.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14852618
> 
> 
> I think many stations in the Parma antenna farm have Canadian issues, no? Since they don't really care about serving Lake Erie, they can pull in the protection.



They probably do. Parma isn't that far away from the lake, and anyone who's grown up listening to "The Big 8" from Canada knows how well those signals travel across the pond.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14851993
> 
> 
> The only way you will get what you want with the equipment you have is to purchase Season 1 on DVD. Yes, you would have to spend money.
> 
> 
> Or you can get an eSATA for more disk space. But anytime you tranfer HD to DVD unless it's an HD Recorder then that's what you are going to get.
> 
> 
> Now with TiVo I can transfer it to my computer, my other TiVo. Also there is bit torrent, but since you can't access bit torrent without burning it to a DVD to play on your set, you get the same results. When I move something from bit torrent to TiVo it shows it in 16X9.
> 
> 
> So either get eSATA, or purchase the darn season.



Have you been taking your meds?










I asked how the Tivo's output formats work and you did a hookbill(talking about some random, off topic subject). You know, what you used to refer to as a "nickdawg"!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14852613
> 
> 
> Same here... what's up with 19?



Dunno, but it's been having issues lately with signal strength. When I tune to 19-1 I usually get the "weak or no signal" message but then it does come in after a few seconds and rarely drops out after it tunes in.


Seems 19 is (very soft whisper......) "everywhere" ...... except on our tuners.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Marshall Karp* /forum/post/14850643
> 
> 
> New Philadelphia TWC here. Lost my 19-1 QAM, saying there is no signal. Anyone know what they are doing? Thanks.



Same here along with channel 43 missing.


I don't know what happened..would be interested in finding out ..


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14852532
> 
> 
> This is indeed 10kw ERP.



Really? Seems unlikely. I scanned for it and found that it barely made my meter bounce. More signal than before, but not much more - definitely not enough signal for a lock, not even momentarily. And I'm located in Geauga county with a clear horizon to the west - about 18 miles from the transmitter.


My guess is that they are using the new transmitter, but not yet running it at full power.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14842291
> 
> 
> WVIZ-DT went back on the air late this afternoon from their new location with higher power and elevation. Anyone picking them up OTA?



Sunday 10/12 receiving them for the first time EVER in Lorain. However, signal reception is only in 60's range with a 100-mile Channel Master antenna w/amp. It'll lock-in occasionally....so, for me, it's still UNWATCHABLE. I've got D* which I'm pleased with but they've yet to pick-up WVIZ 25.1.

For the record I receive OTA: 3.1 in upper 80's-90, 5.1 & 8.1 mid 90's-100 with 19.1 usually in upper 70's-80's. No PBS OTA option here in Lorain.....well, actually, bad option being here in Lorain period.


----------



## hookbill

Just a reminder if something awful should happen and you decide to switch channels you can watch LA vs Philadelphia on WUAB. By the time you switch channels I should have a response to my email as to if it will be in HD.










Now all this talk this morning about it being a "personal" illness has got me curious. I didn't think it was drugs or anything like that but I thought maybe he has an STD. Still why would that keep him out unless the stress of a football game interferred with antibiotics.?


Well, the rumor mill has it that he has a swollen testicle. It apparently happens more often with infants or young childeren. So I suppose if the swelling goes down enough he may play.


----------



## JJkizak

The last time I checked the strength of 25.1 OTA it was 78, but it does drop out fairly frequently.

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/14854061
> 
> 
> My guess is that they are using the new transmitter, but not yet running it at full power.



Keep in mind, 10KW is not that much. On UHF, it's basically lower than low-power digital!


I think you are all expecting a bit too much from this little temporary setup. It's not meant to increase the station's range, really. It's meant to get WVIZ-DT off of the Brookpark Road mini-tower since they sold the place.


It's also only 121 meters above average terrain, where the final antenna will be nearly three times that high. (OK, so the older temporary setup was 30 meters above average terrain







)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14851781
> 
> 
> I'd like to get some feedback about other DVRs(Tivo, D*, E*, etc).
> 
> 
> As you know, I'm a huge _Boston Legal_ fan. I was thrilled to see the first episode on WEWHD a few weeks back. I used to have it on VHS from years ago, but accidentally deleted it. Of course I DVRed it when it was on. Anyway, now that recording is eating a chunk of hard drive space(didn't plan on keeping it permanently on DVR) so I decided to dump it to VHS. When I connected the standard Y/W/R audio and video cables to the VCR, all I could get on WEWHD is a letterboxed picture. I tried changing all the settings(Aspect Ratio: 4x3, Picture Size: Zoom, Output Format: 480i). The changes were only applied to the output of the box on the component video channel, not the AV output or the RF output on channel 4. Basically I was hoping the 8300HD(or any other of TWC's HD boxes) would behave like a CECB where the output of HDTV signals was user-defined(to make a normal 4:3 picture, especially on "windowboxed" shows).
> 
> 
> I always wanted to get a HDTV STB for my SDTVs back in the day before the networks moved the bugs. When the bugs were in their old position on the HD channels and there was no advertising, an adjustable output would have made it easy to cut off the bug and have a 4:3 bug free picture. Now that the bugs are moved, I wouldn't mind the bug, since the HD signal downconverted to SD looks much better than the regualr SDTV channel.
> 
> 
> So my question is, how does your HDTV reception equipment work? Is there a variable SD output? I was very disappointed that I had to record Boston Legal in letterbox.



My E* ViP 622 has a variable aspect ratio adjustment that works on the SD outputs (and I presume the HD as well, I don't own an HD screen yet to say for sure). It does "stretch", "partial Zoom" (It reminds me of the old WEWS HD feed where they partially zoomed the picture for awhile a few years ago. I don't know what this one is for unless your 4 x 3 display's overscan is losing too much of the sides) and "full zoom" which is what I use when a 4 x 3 picture is transmitted on an HD channel to totally fill the screen.


The aspect ratio control is a button on the remote, you press the button over and over as it cycles through the 5 choices (the other 2 choices are letterbox w/gray bars and letterbox wth black bars). Note: it only works on a true HD feeds (at least on my SD screen).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14852380
> 
> 
> I figured with the nice WX they made this move prematurely, if indeed this is the 10KW xmitter, I guess I'll be waiting till next August as originally anticipated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was able to lock & map 25-1, -2, -3, -4 & -9 around 7PM Saturday evening with minimal pixalization , then it went blank never to return, I'm still picking up about a 10-30% signal, just a llittle better than I was from the old site on Brookpark, without a lock.
> 
> 
> Michael, was not able to get any Guide data here either. ... strange around the same time 19 was pixalating & was down to a 30% signal.
> 
> 
> Suprised that they are beaming this to the south as Akron's already is served by 45/49, I'm only 28 miles from the farm, a lot closer than Canton would likely be.



I finally got the guide data. Since the guide data for my E* 622 comes form the satellite as opposed to PSIP data it took awhile for that data to get to my EPG. It's nice that they do have guide data for many subchannels, including stations they do not carry on satellite. There is one mistake, however. For WVIZ 25-4 they list the same data as the analog service (which is the only service also carried on the satellite as 25-0). In reality 25-4 is "Create", a PBS subchannel that WNEO/WEAO used to carry.


This also means that the analog WVIZ feed is not being sent on any digital subchannel on WVIZ-DT. True, the prime time mirrors the PBS-HD feed, but is not the same programs 24/7. If all I had was an ATSC converter I would be missing WVIZ-TV's programs for part of the day (unless the converter had a pass-through for the analog tuner to pick up WVIZ-TV).


This is the WVIZ-DT line-up:

25-1 = PBS HD

25-2 = The Ohio Channel

25-3 = PBS World

25-4 = Create (erroniously listed on E* receivers with the analog service's guide data)

25-9 = CRRS (an audio only service for the blind. I believe the letters stand for Cleveland Radio Relay Service).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14848513
> 
> 
> I was up there recently...with my laptop in the Kmart parking lot on Broadview Road, picking up the TSReader capture of WKYC-DT for Trip here.
> 
> 
> I drove by the 'KYC site on the way up to WVIZ's apparently now former temporary DT site, and didn't see anything obvious as far as the new joint tower goes...but it's tough to look past all those trees down into the WKYC site while driving past. You can see the big towers and most of the building, but not really anything down on the road level itself.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing another laptop-equipped DT tuner trip to that parking lot would net me WVIZ's new temporary 10KW signal. But I'll move one of the CECB's up into the loft first, and aim at Parma...



Hey you were in my 'hood!


If you want a better look at WKYC's transmitter & tower pull into the parking lot to St. Columbkille Church (which happens to be my parrish). There is only one street between the 'KYC property and St. Columbkille's, it's almost as good as driving up 'KYC's driveway into their back yard.


You couldn't see anything from Broadview Rd. because there is a significant terrain downgrade. The St. Columbkille parking lot is on the same downgrade, so you'll see alot more than just the top of the towers (you can also see their doppler radar ball).


They may not need to put up a new tower. 'KYC had a shorter backup tower (that I presume is where WVIZ-DT is on with it's STA antenna). 'KYC could operate form that same short tower as they mount new antennas on the big tower. Then again the big tower is quite old, having been the former tower for WKYC-AM as well as 105.7 before they sold the radio stations off.


Several years ago WJW erected a new tower at their site on the corner of Pleasant Valley and State Roads. I drove past the construction site every day on my way to and from work. If you wanted to get up close and personal with a tower that is the site to visit. There is no buffer zone around that tower, some of the guy wires are awfully close to the street. If that tower ever fell it would be a minor disaster as there are many homes and business nearby.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14855172
> 
> 
> Keep in mind, 10KW is not that much. On UHF, it's basically lower than low-power digital!
> 
> 
> I think you are all expecting a bit too much from this little temporary setup. It's not meant to increase the station's range, really. It's meant to get WVIZ-DT off of the Brookpark Road mini-tower since they sold the place.
> 
> 
> It's also only 121 meters above average terrain, where the final antenna will be nearly three times that high. (OK, so the older temporary setup was 30 meters above average terrain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



What Inundated said. And a 10x increase in power does not mean a 10x increase at the receive site. Power drops off with the inverse-square law as soon as it leaves the transmit antenna. Air is a pretty good insulator!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14855876
> 
> 
> They may not need to put up a new tower. 'KYC had a shorter backup tower (that I presume is where WVIZ-DT is on with it's STA antenna). 'KYC could operate form that same short tower as they mount new antennas on the big tower. Then again the big tower is quite old, having been the former tower for WKYC-AM as well as 105.7 before they sold the radio stations off.



It's my belief and understanding, and I've read, that WKYC will actually be building a new tower for the combined new home of WKYC-DT and WVIZ-DT. My guess is that in addition to the old tower's age, among other things, they're not willing to sacrifice the current WKYC signal on the short tower (either existing analog or digital), even for a few months.


No problem for WVIZ-DT in that regard.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14855876
> 
> 
> (re: WJW)
> 
> There is no buffer zone around that tower, some of the guy wires are awfully close to the street. If that tower ever fell it would be a minor disaster as there are many homes and business nearby.



I have driven by WJW's site many times. The tower could fall into homes, it could fall into the Walgreens across the street, and I think there's more development planned there.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14857994
> 
> 
> What Inundated said. And a 10x increase in power does not mean a 10x increase at the receive site. Power drops off with the inverse-square law as soon as it leaves the transmit antenna. Air is a pretty good insulator!



Yeah, I don't know why folks are expecting miracles with a 10KW antenna so far down from the future permanent antenna's siting. It is better than 1KW from the back of Brookpark Road, but not much.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14858044
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Yeah, I don't know why folks are expecting miracles with a 10KW antenna so far down from the future permanent antenna's siting. It is better than 1KW from the back of Brookpark Road, but not much.



Granted, it's still just an "STA" with emphasis on the "T" as in temporary. However, just moving the tower up the hill, in addition to a taller tower, will bring WVIZ-DT to many more receivers than the original "kluge on Brookpark".


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14858245
> 
> 
> Granted, it's still just an "STA" with emphasis on the "T" as in temporary. However, just moving the tower up the hill, in addition to a taller tower, will bring WVIZ-DT to many more receivers than the original "kluge on Brookpark".



Yep, providing a better signal to you guys in Parma, Seven Hills and other nearby suburbs. Viewers may be able to lock WVIZ-DT as far away as Brecksville and Richfield now!


----------



## nickdawg

MLB is HD on WUAB. Except there is a HUGE, ugly "My43" bug in the corner.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14858726
> 
> 
> MLB is HD on WUAB. Except there is a HUGE, ugly "My43" bug in the corner.



Thanks. Saves me a trip to the HD set upstairs to satisfy my curiosity!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14858726
> 
> 
> MLB is HD on WUAB. Except there is a HUGE, ugly "My43" bug in the corner.



I didn't see that, but I can confirm it's in Dolby 5.1.


Edit: During the game there is no "MY43" bug at all. No FOX bug either.


I wonder if it's coming in on 1080i or 720p? My televisions are both set for 720p hybrid.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14858843
> 
> 
> I didn't see that, but I can confirm it's in Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> Edit: During the game there is no "MY43" bug at all. No FOX bug either.
> 
> 
> I wonder if it's coming in on 1080i or 720p? My televisions are both set for 720p hybrid.



Probably 720p. WUAB's native output is 720p. If your box is set to output 1080i only, then it would be 1080i.


Oh, and less than one week until SDV!!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14859225
> 
> 
> Probably 720p. WUAB's native output is 720p. If your box is set to output 1080i only, then it would be 1080i.
> 
> 
> Oh, and less than one week until SDV!!!!



Are you sure? That's not how it use to be. It use to be WUAB and WOIO 1080i.


Oh and no letter for me yet. Of course today is Columbus Day.


Edit: TiVo says 720p. But I'm pretty sure it was 1080i in the past.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14855172
> 
> 
> Keep in mind, 10KW is not that much. On UHF, it's basically lower than low-power digital!
> 
> 
> I think you are all expecting a bit too much from this little temporary setup. It's not meant to increase the station's range, really. It's meant to get WVIZ-DT off of the Brookpark Road mini-tower since they sold the place.
> 
> 
> It's also only 121 meters above average terrain, where the final antenna will be nearly three times that high. (OK, so the older temporary setup was 30 meters above average terrain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



OK, just a bit disappointed I'll have to wait for August for PBS & the Antiques road show!










25 analog was very sparce at times up here untill recently, & not available in Ashtabula County... only if weather permitting







, there is a big void up here. So to 'protect' Canada it is not servicing it's entire area.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14852905
> 
> 
> They probably do. Parma isn't that far away from the lake, and anyone who's grown up listening to "The Big 8" from Canada knows how well those signals travel across the pond.



Yes I remember the big 8 quite fondly!










Oh, but you are talking AM, the big 8 & WJR come in better up here than many of the Cleveland AM stations, in fact CKLW is the only station I can pick up AM coast to Coast in the shop, other than WGY 810, Albany & WHAS 840, Louisville... I cannot recieve WTAM at all.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I have been trying to watch some football on tv tonight. This one team I have never heard of in a long time looks like a top notch team. They are called the Cleveland Browns. When the heck did Cleveland get another football team? I thought they moved to Baltimore.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14859467
> 
> 
> Are you sure? That's not how it use to be. It use to be WUAB and WOIO 1080i.
> 
> 
> Oh and no letter for me yet. Of course today is Columbus Day.
> 
> 
> Edit: TiVo says 720p. But I'm pretty sure it was 1080i in the past.



WUAB was 1080i under UPN, which was owned by CBS and Paramount. When WUAB became My Network TV, owned by FOX, they adopted the FOX standard of 720p.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14859933
> 
> 
> I have been trying to watch some football on tv tonight. This one team I have never heard of in a long time looks like a top notch team. They are called the Cleveland Browns. When the heck did Cleveland get another football team? I thought they moved to Baltimore.



Cleveland Browns = Giant Killers

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14860161
> 
> 
> Cleveland Browns = Giant Killers
> 
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Honestly, I never saw that one coming. I was expecting a massacre, a slaughter tonight...


...OF CLEVELAND!










HOLY F...ING S..T, BATMAN!!!




















































Think the Browns "are back", or is this a one night only performance?


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14860316
> 
> 
> Honestly, I never saw that one coming. I was expecting a massacre, a slaughter tonight...
> 
> 
> ...OF CLEVELAND!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOLY F...ING S..T, BATMAN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think the Browns "are back", or is this a one night only performance?



Hard to say but when the Browns went up 27-14 in the third quarter I was fully expecting the Giants to come back and win 28-27..


Neat Trvia:According to the Monday Night Football announcers, this is the first time The Giants did not force a turnover or that their opponents did not have to punt at all..since 1936!


----------



## Smarty-pants

I don't know WHAT to say. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief.









I actually watched most of it while I was doing work on my PC.

They made some pretty decent mistakes, but then kept making up for them with better plays that followed. They played like a Superbowl team... like a really really GOOD superbowl team.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14855876
> 
> 
> If that tower ever fell it would be a minor disaster as there are many homes and business nearby.



I was surprised the first time I drove past this one... I thought the FCC had restrictions on big towers (1.5x tower height, IIRC) to prevent collateral damage in case they ever came down unexpectedly. I'll have to look up the rules - there must be some legal reason why most towers have lots of empty space around them, but WJW does not...


mike


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14858044
> 
> 
> ........Yeah, I don't know why folks are expecting miracles with a 10KW antenna so far down from the future permanent antenna's siting. It is better than 1KW from the back of Brookpark Road, but not much.



We expect to have access for what we are paying for.










Funny how all of the free ones that cost me (us) nothing all function as expected.

The one I (we all) pay for can't be used.


Maybe the incoming regime will put the FCC under the Medicare program and all will be fixed!


----------



## hookbill

Here's what I observed last night:


I was watching FOX on My43. On FOX I was watching ESPN.


I watched a really great baseball game despite a disappointing loss on My43 with excellent PQ. In between innings I switched to FOX and to my disbelief saw they were leading the Giants, which I was sure was temporary 16-10. I heard several sound drop offs.


As I continued to watch FOX in between innings I kept seeing Cleveland with the ball. I saw penalty flags, the likes of which would have caused most teams to lose. Yet everytime they got a penalty they overcame it!


Back to baseball, getting late and Joe Torre makes a bad decision and pulls one of his best pitchers who just healed and Philadelphia comes back from two runs down and takes the lead by two runs.


I take two valium. I had already taken two valium two hours earlier.


I go back to FOX which looks to me like ESPN and further confuses me because the valium has kicked in. Wait, this is ESPN! WTF. Why don't I watch this on ESPN? I start talking to the cat about Torres decision who really doesn't seem very interested since she just wants to sleep. I go back to FOX for the baseball game. Wait, I mean MY43, even though there is the FOX scoreboard throughout the entire night. The only time you knew it was MY43 was when they cut off a FOX commercial to promo their own programs.


Back to football. I see the Browns intercept and run back for a touch down. Eli Manning looked like a p**sy the way he tried to stop the guy running back the ball. Holy crap, they are actually going to beat the Giants. Armegendon is coming. The third seal or whatever has been opened.


Back to baseball. Dodgers try, hit the ball hard, threaten a couple of times but the ball is either hit right at some one or they hit into a double play.


Game ends in a strike out. I'm tired and don't give a flying you know what anymore. I'm happy for all of you guys and sad for myself but also being numb on the valium I'm turning the tv off and going to bed, gratefull I have today off.


Dodgers are down 3 to 1. I tell myself that they can still win this. Wasn't somebody ahead 3 to 0 last year and the other team came back and won four straight? But I think that was in the American League and they don't play real baseball there.


So today and tomorrow and until they are eliminated I will be religious, I will pray for a miracle. Obviously you guys did. Because I'm here to tell you NOBODY makes that many penalties and not only wins the game but kicks their ass too.


Great job Browns. You guys should be proud!


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14861224
> 
> 
> Because I'm here to tell you NOBODY makes that many penalties and not only wins the game but kicks their ass too.
> 
> 
> Great job Browns. You guys should be proud!




Coach Crennel uses penalties as a way to control the game. Pretty soon every NFL team will learn to use the penalty like the Browns. Coach Crennel will be remembered as an innovator of the game.


Ray


----------



## JJkizak

I got it now---in the huddle---ok Edwards, your turn for illegal motion, then we will have them right where we want them.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/14861354
> 
> 
> Coach Crennel uses penalties as a way to control the game. Pretty soon every NFL team will learn to use the penalty like the Browns. Coach Crennel will be remembered as an innovator of the game.
> 
> 
> Ray



Being a Raider fan for many years now I can tell you that this strategy is not new and will not be successfull in the long term.


You see the basic idea is to move the ball forward, not backward and put all the pressure on the quarterback.


I just thought it was so funny that every time I changed channels there was a yellow flag on the ground! And bam, they responded. Amazing.


But your response was clever.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14861107
> 
> 
> Funny how all of the free ones that cost me (us) nothing all function as expected.
> 
> The one I (we all) pay for can't be used.



Heh. Relax, you'll get your WVIZ-DT in full-power glory sometime in the next few months.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14861224
> 
> 
> Dodgers are down 3 to 1. I tell myself that they can still win this. Wasn't somebody ahead 3 to 0 last year and the other team came back and won four straight? But I think that was in the American League and they don't play real baseball there.



Aside from your crack on the AL...I'm pulling for the Dodgers. They have the ex-Indians factor (though the Phillies are managed by Charlie Manuel). Manny could put a stake in the heart of the Red Sox if you guys win this series and if Boston wins theirs. Casey Blake is there.


I know one Phillies fan, but the Dodgers have one of my former girlfriends pulling for them. I'm still friendly with her, so...go Dodgers!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14862850
> 
> 
> Aside from your crack on the AL...I'm pulling for the Dodgers. They have the ex-Indians factor (though the Phillies are managed by Charlie Manuel). Manny could put a stake in the heart of the Red Sox if you guys win this series and if Boston wins theirs. Casey Blake is there.
> 
> 
> I know one Phillies fan, but the Dodgers have one of my former girlfriends pulling for them. I'm still friendly with her, so...go Dodgers!



Casey Blake hit one out last night to put them ahead for a bit and he also got a single.


Manny has been awesome throughout the series. I know you probably haven't been watching but I think it was in game 2 when whomever was pitching for the Phillies laid one in the zone for him and he hit it out. When he got back to the dugout he hollard out at the pitcher "unless you can throw 95 mph don't try that."










He's in the right town, so the Dodgers have got to resign him or I suspect somebody is going to murder the McCourts. Lot's of latinos in the area and he's really demonstrated leadership on the team.


And I appreciate your support. Hey, despite my cracks about the Browns when they are on I pull for them. I'm in a bit of denial, being a Raider fan and a Laker fan I'm use to seeing winners and championships from them as well as the Dodgers. So it's hard for me to imagine the Dodgers haven't even been to a World Series in 20 years. And the Raiders at least went to the Super Bowl in 2003 (I think).


So go Browns but you are going to have to do something about those penalties. And I hope Kellen Winslows nuts shrink to normal size soon.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14858386
> 
> 
> Yep, providing a better signal to you guys in Parma, Seven Hills and other nearby suburbs. Viewers may be able to lock WVIZ-DT as far away as Brecksville and Richfield now!



You







but it's true, this is not that great of an improvement. I posted earlier that I get a 100% signal, however the dropouts are horrendous. It goes form 100 to 0 for short bursts. That never happens, even on WKBN-DT with only an 80% signal. And it's not my proximity either, since WBNX-DT is my other "hot" signal and it's solid!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14846746
> 
> 
> LOL. Yeah, I guess I gripe a great deal about cable companies. No doubt.
> 
> 
> From what you're saying however I'm still stuck. About this time of the year the Sun is rising in the South East and by my observations, once again, too many trees.
> 
> 
> Anyway I'm kind of commited at this point equipment wise. I have a lifetime subscription on my TiVo HD and with SDV coming and the tuner adapter I don't know if I would be willing to make the change.
> 
> 
> Add the fact that it's Dish. I'm not certain how good their DVR is. I know they are still in a law suit with TiVo, at least last I heard for stealing some of the designs Tivo uses.
> 
> 
> But I do appreciate you letting us know. It may be something to think about further on down the line.



How about due south? DirecTv is almost due south now with the all MPEG-4 HD service. And they have a deal w/TiVO too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14865335
> 
> 
> How about due south? DirecTv is almost due south now with the all MPEG-4 HD service. And they have a deal w/TiVO too.



I have a compass and I can receive XM radio due south however when the leaves are full it can get a little touchy and also I don't know where the position of the satellite is for XM.


And like I said I've got too much money invested in the S3 and TiVo HD to make a change at this point. Maybe a few years down the road.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14864386
> 
> 
> You
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but it's true, this is not that great of an improvement. I posted earlier that I get a 100% signal, however the dropouts are horrendous. It goes form 100 to 0 for short bursts.



IANAE (engineer), but my guess is that WVIZ-DT's second temporary signal still too weak, but it's also too low on the tower. Maybe trees and leaves are getting in the way.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14863056
> 
> 
> He's in the right town, so the Dodgers have got to resign him or I suspect somebody is going to murder the McCourts. Lot's of latinos in the area and he's really demonstrated leadership on the team.



Let's just hope, for the Dodgers' sake, that Manny Being Manny doesn't turn into lollygagging it if he ever wants to leave Los Angeles...


----------



## JJkizak

I am still receiving the 25 series OTA at 78 signal strength. With lots of sporadic dropouts.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14866220
> 
> 
> I am still receiving the 25 series OTA at 78 signal strength. With lots of sporadic dropouts.
> 
> JJK



If you have access to a UHF preamp and a bandpass filter that's cut for that frequency, that will help considerably. I've seen unusably weak DTV signals pulled out of the mud this way. You just have to decide how much money you want to put into it now vs waiting a few months.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14862827
> 
> 
> Heh. Relax, you'll get your WVIZ-DT in full-power glory sometime in the next few months.



Yeah, I know, just raz'ing VIZ.










I don't understand the difference between signal strength vs KW power vs reception quality but it is an odd combo on my tuner.


WVIZ-DT usually shows only one "bar" (out of ten) on my tuner's signal meter and has (expected) drops. But if Ch's 3 or 19 ever have four "bars" they drop even more frequently. Why would a weaker WVIZ signal drop less than a stronger 3 or 19 signal??










3 & 19 come in quite good now since I went to an outdoor antenna. The four bar comparison above is when I used an attic antenna a while back.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14868434
> 
> 
> meter and has (expected) drops. But if Ch's 3 or 19 ever have four "bars" they drop even more frequently. Why would a weaker WVIZ signal drop less than a stronger 3 or 19 signal??



You might be receiving rflections that are causing phase cancellation. The single biggest enemy of DTV signals is multipath reflections. As your antenna picks up the main signal along with reflections of the signal that are bouncing off of buildings, those reflections can arrive either in-phase with the main signal, causing a brief increase in signal power, or out-of-phase, causing a partial (or complete) cancellation of the main signal lobe.


Think about what happens when you're watching analog tv with rabbit ears ana plane goes by overhead. Multiple reflections build up as the plane moves by, alternately adding to and cancelling the signal. On an analog set, it shows up as a visual flutter, ghosting and a "fwip fwip" in the audio. When the same phenomenon happens to a DTV signal, some of the 1s turn into 0s and vice versa, completely corrupting the checksums for the individual bytes of data, causing the tv's decoder to reject those bad bytes, which in turn causes a blank screen. Analog TVs flicker and flutter but digital sets go over the cliff when the signal gets bad enough. That's why a highly directional antenna is your friend.


----------



## Trip in VA

VHF signals seem to be a lot less resilient than UHF signals. Electrical spikes can cause drops in signal when there's more signal available.


WBRA-DT will drop out on me even when it's maxing out the meter sometimes, like when light switches get turned on and whatnot.


- Trip


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14872971
> 
> 
> VHF signals seem to be a lot less resilient than UHF signals. Electrical spikes can cause drops in signal when there's more signal available.
> 
> 
> WBRA-DT will drop out on me even when it's maxing out the meter sometimes, like when light switches get turned on and whatnot.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Apparently the spectral distribution of EMI sources such as electrical contacts in switches and motors tends to slant towards the lower end of the spectrum. Probably the same reason why lightning strikes sound louder at the low end of the AM radio band than the high end, receiver sensitivity notwithstanding.


----------



## JJkizak

And in my opinion interference from digital tv stations far away on the same channel will raise hell with dropouts on the viewing channel with occasional probagation anomolies. (ducting of long range signals 200 miles away). The problem with digital is it's either one or the other, not both. Multipath coupled with these anomolies are going to be a pain in the neck for OTA people.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14875966
> 
> 
> And in my opinion interference from digital tv stations far away on the same channel will raise hell with dropouts on the viewing channel with occasional probagation anomolies. (ducting of long range signals 200 miles away). The problem with digital is it's either one or the other, not both. Multipath coupled with these anomolies are going to be a pain in the neck for OTA people.
> 
> JJK



The thing that's kind of interesting about this in my opinion is people who are not into this technology change as much as you guys are already aware. I was talking to a woman I work with who's already seen the conversion box and the problems of getting any channel in certain situations.


For the working person struggling to keep their head above water the last thing they want to do is find out that now they need to go out an either buy a different antenna other then the rabbit ears that they get by on just fine or have to subscribe to cable.


If you have a "snowy picture" now that does not guarantee a lock on a station. I use to be able to at least see and hear channel 3 before I got the digital converter. Now I can't get it period.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, reading these last few posts, TWC should pay us!!


This is a great ad for cable, with all the talk of OTA reception problems and interference problems. Plus not being able to get channels currently available.


I'm glad I have cable!!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14877930
> 
> 
> Wow, reading these last few posts, TWC should pay us!!
> 
> 
> This is a great ad for cable, with all the talk of OTA reception problems and interference problems. Plus not being able to get channels currently available.
> 
> 
> I'm glad I have cable!!



Guess what? If your cable company is getting their local stations OTA they will experience the same problems. It's the same argument with satellite and rain fade. If a storm is large enough it will knockout satellite reception to the cable company too.


Unless the cable company has all fiber-optic connections to every channel they carry there will be interruptions in programing under certain atmospheric conditions.


Years ago there was a local "cable company" that serviced a high-rise complex. They got 100% of their signals OTA off the roof of the building. When I explained to a senior citizen who lived in that building that the signals were being picked up by antennas on the roof he complained that he should not be charged since they were using antennas. He actually believed that those extra stations from Erie PA and London Ontario came in to the building via a wire all the way from the source of the signals!


----------



## Inundated

Cable companies have the same problem all companies have - the current state of the economy means consumers will cut luxuries before necessities. Cable is a luxury, as is satellite, and for that matter, so is spending money fixing your antenna system/buying new antennas to fix reception problems.


We'll see what people do to keep their "Deal or No Deal".


Comcast, I think it is, is offering basically free basic/lifeline cable to customers who get their Internet or phone services...or $10/mo. for non-customers. Of course, Comcast got swallowed locally into the TWC empire...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14879794
> 
> 
> Guess what? If your cable company is getting their local stations OTA they will experience the same problems. It's the same argument with satellite and rain fade. If a storm is large enough it will knockout satellite reception to the cable company too.



Rain fade is highly exaggerated. I had satellite for years and it hardly caused me any problems at all. Of course for a few of those years I lived in Los Angeles.







But the majority of the time I was in Northern Kentucky and it rains alot there.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14879794
> 
> 
> Unless the cable company has all fiber-optic connections to every channel they carry there will be interruptions in programing under certain atmospheric conditions.



The local channels supposedly are fiber optic.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14879794
> 
> 
> Years ago there was a local "cable company" that serviced a high-rise complex. They got 100% of their signals OTA off the roof of the building. When I explained to a senior citizen who lived in that building that the signals were being picked up by antennas on the roof he complained that he should not be charged since they were using antennas. He actually believed that those extra stations from Erie PA and London Ontario came in to the building via a wire all the way from the source of the signals!



Now that's pretty funny!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14879794
> 
> 
> Guess what? If your cable company is getting their local stations OTA they will experience the same problems. It's the same argument with satellite and rain fade. If a storm is large enough it will knockout satellite reception to the cable company too.
> 
> 
> Unless the cable company has all fiber-optic connections to every channel they carry there will be interruptions in programing under certain atmospheric conditions.



Direct fiber connections from the studios to the cable companies are becoming much more commonplace. And for off-air pickup, they generally use tower mounted, directional, amplified, bandpassed antennas that are the size of a buick. Much more fade margin there.


----------



## nickdawg

What a day... WKYC launched a new graphics/music package on air the other day. Also, Tim White is leaving WKYC later this year. And let's not forget that TWC NE Ohio is set to begin SDV broadcast on Monday 10/20. I know the thread has been bogged down with all this OTA talk lately, but I'm surprised this place isn't buzzing as much as I expected.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Good bye Tim White! Your smug attitude will not be missed.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14882729
> 
> 
> Good bye Tim White! Your smug attitude will not be missed.



Hard to believe he found a better paying acting job. You wonder who's gonna help Romona thru the newscast now?


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14882365
> 
> 
> I know the thread has been bogged down with all this OTA talk lately, but I'm surprised this place isn't buzzing as much as I expected.



More like the thread has taken on a REFRESHING departure from cabletalk!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/14883316
> 
> 
> More like the thread has taken on a REFRESHING departure from cabletalk!



Agreed. nickdawg, do you realize how often we monopolize this thread? I was glad to see the OTA people talking for a while, even if I didn't understand much of what they had to say. I even tried to participate a bit becaues I'm somewhat effected by this upcoming change. This is not the TWC NEO forum, it's Cleveland, OH-HDTV. Youre use of the terminology of "bogged down" was a bit insulting to the other folks.


And for what it's worth there has been still no mention or letter in my neighborhood about SDV. And why are you so excited about it? It would be different if they were to say, "and in two weeks we will have 10 new HD channels."


To all the OTA and satellite people out there I won't actually apololgize for us using the forum to the extent that we have recently, but certainly burgher point taken.


----------



## k2rj

 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/F...crew-Ups-98487 


FCC-Fines-Cox-Time-Warner-For-CableCARD-Screw-Ups


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14883762
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/F...crew-Ups-98487
> 
> 
> FCC-Fines-Cox-Time-Warner-For-CableCARD-Screw-Ups



Yeah, it's being discussed over on the TiVo thread. It's funny how one person refers to TiVo as "outdated technology" when in fact it's the box that they are offering that is technically limited. Anyway the digital converter will solve that issue.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14883392
> 
> 
> Agreed. nickdawg, do you realize how often we monopolize this thread? I was glad to see the OTA people talking for a while, even if I didn't understand much of what they had to say. I even tried to participate a bit becaues I'm somewhat effected by this upcoming change. This is not the TWC NEO forum, it's Cleveland, OH-HDTV. You're use of the terminology of "bogged down" was a bit insulting to the other folks.
> 
> 
> And for what it's worth there has been still no mention or letter in my neighborhood about SDV. And why are you so excited about it? It would be different if they were to say, "and in two weeks we will have 10 new HD channels."
> 
> 
> To all the OTA and satellite people out there I won't actually apololgize for us using the forum to the extent that we have recently, but certainly burgher point taken.



You're right hook, you (almost)always are! I am a bit less than nice to the OTA people. This place has really opened my eyes. I actually used to say "who uses OTA anymore" and I was really shocked how many do---for HDTV. But I really do like this kind of talk, as alot of technical information comes out(like how much bandwidth is wasted on subchannels







).


Baby steps, baby steps. Getting a properly working SDV system gets us one step closer to adding more HDTV. TWC needs positive reinforcement for doing the right thing.


Well I will. I'll apologize for the off color comment I made in an earlier post.


I even brought in the information about Tim White leaving and WKYC's new look in hopes of expanding the scope of this thread to HDTV on air. I see smartypants and burgher discussed it.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14879794
> 
> 
> Years ago there was a local "cable company" that serviced a high-rise complex. They got 100% of their signals OTA off the roof of the building. When I explained to a senior citizen who lived in that building that the signals were being picked up by antennas on the roof he complained that he should not be charged since they were using antennas. He actually believed that those extra stations from Erie PA and London Ontario came in to the building via a wire all the way from the source of the signals!




I was in a High Rise Apt years back there was a 22 channel system with an On Demand menu, I believe this was provided by the complex as likely part of the rent since I never saw a bill.


I'm in a condo now as part of the bylaws I had to explain to the management company that the antenna was part of the deal with my monthly maintenance fee when the antenna was struck by lightning (subsequencially taking out 2 of my VCR's tuners & one complete VCR... even being on an arrestor). I've noticed as these places are being re-roofed the antennas on many of the buildings are gone. Me & one other person in my building are currently using the lone antenna. I'm wondering if I would be allowed to place my own areal if the antenna goes bye bye, seeing they changed the bylaws to allow individual satalite dishes fro individual units on the roof now?


@ hookbill, I don't understand 95% of the cable banter myself!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14882365
> 
> 
> What a day... WKYC launched a new graphics/music package on air the other day. Also, Tim White is leaving WKYC later this year. And let's not forget that TWC NE Ohio is set to begin SDV broadcast on Monday 10/20. I know the thread has been bogged down with all this OTA talk lately, but I'm surprised this place isn't buzzing as much as I expected.



Only on HD? Speaking of OTA, any new plans for the use or future use of subs?? I thought I read in this forum months back that WBNX was going to launch a 55-2 Sub.


No, WVIZ as of yet, though I have a equal or better chance of getting 49, which isn't much. what is the timeline for VIZ to increase their power?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14880223
> 
> 
> Cable companies have the same problem all companies have - the current state of the economy means consumers will cut luxuries before necessities. Cable is a luxury, as is satellite, and for that matter, so is spending money fixing your antenna system/buying new antennas to fix reception problems.
> 
> 
> We'll see what people do to keep their "Deal or No Deal".
> 
> 
> Comcast, I think it is, is offering basically free basic/lifeline cable to customers who get their Internet or phone services...or $10/mo. for non-customers. Of course, Comcast got swallowed locally into the TWC empire...



Darn right a luxury, Only the Antenna repair is a one time shot. The few neighbors I knew here that went into foreclosure all had Cadillac Cable, cell phones & vehicles they likely couldn't afford.


I think that lifeline cable you speak of is a basic 15 channel setup for around $15/month. Speaking of which the salesman at circuit city told me he had this & TWC told him he would need an OTA SDTV STB converter box to continue this package... what gives?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14886734
> 
> 
> No, WVIZ as of yet, though I have a equal or better chance of getting 49, which isn't much. what is the timeline for VIZ to increase their power?



They filed a new 387 with the FCC yesterday which implies they plan to have it on by the end of December, barring unforseen delays.


- Trip


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14874443
> 
> 
> Apparently the spectral distribution of EMI sources such as electrical contacts in switches and motors tends to slant towards the lower end of the spectrum. Probably the same reason why lightning strikes sound louder at the low end of the AM radio band than the high end, receiver sensitivity notwithstanding.



Funny though I can only pick up the Low AM in my shop, I pretty much lose everything except the local Painesville station after WBZ 1130, with only one FM station out of Geneva.



> Quote:
> If you have access to a UHF preamp and a bandpass filter that's cut for that frequency, that will help considerably. I've seen unusably weak DTV signals pulled out of the mud this way. You just have to decide how much money you want to put into it now vs waiting a few months.



I'm testing a cheap 12db gain amp, improves analog UHF quite a bit but haven't noticed any signal increase on Digital UHF.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14886734
> 
> 
> Only on HD? Speaking of OTA, any new plans for the use or future use of subs?? I thought I read in this forum months back that WBNX was going to launch a 55-2 Sub.
> 
> 
> No, WVIZ as of yet, though I have a equal or better chance of getting 49, which isn't much. what is the timeline for VIZ to increase their power?



Originally WBNX wanted to launch another channel to feed a digital SD to cable companies, but that's moot now that the DTV transition is coming and the HD digital feed will be downconverted for SDTV. Which is a shame that it took WBNX so long to get that HD feed going, we could have had a better PQ on WBNX all these years. SD on cable looks awful.


There was also talk years back, when DTV was still a "new" thing, about running a second channel that would be a dedicated religious channel for Angeley's show. Of course that was back when his show still had primetime exposure.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14886826
> 
> 
> They filed a new 387 with the FCC yesterday which implies they plan to have it on by the end of December, barring unforseen delays.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Cool!







... I must be just out of the range to lock it presently.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14886847
> 
> 
> Originally WBNX wanted to launch another channel to feed a digital SD to cable companies, but that's moot now that the DTV transition is coming and the HD digital feed will be downconverted for SDTV. Which is a shame that it took WBNX so long to get that HD feed going, we could have had a better PQ on WBNX all these years. SD on cable looks awful.
> 
> 
> There was also talk years back, when DTV was still a "new" thing, about running a second channel that would be a dedicated religious channel for Angeley's show. Of course that was back when his show still had primetime exposure.



So we are not missing much then??


WBNX is the one station I'm having trouble with (along with 19), on my attic antenna.... analog comes in great but no digital.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14886876
> 
> 
> Cool!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... I must be just out of the range to lock it presently.


 http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=18753 


That's the filing with the FCC. I think the form was filled out incorrectly; the field about when they expect construction to be completed specifies 11/17/08, but they mention at the bottom of the form not having it operational until December. Unless I'm the one misunderstanding what it means, that is.


Here's their filing from July:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....ility_id=18753 


You'll note that it has a nice timeline at the bottom which specifies 12/19/08 as a date, and then "full-power testing" until 02/17/09. I'm guessing that means they'll be on the air with it but could go down unexpectedly if they find problems.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg

Keeping with the new theme of on-air stories, I think channel 5 is also changing as well. Lately I've noticed that the "News Chanel 5" is missing from their commercials. Starting with the Bonnie Hunt Show and now Oprah, they say WEWS-5 instead. Also, I've seen a bug similar to the "ABC7" bugs except with the ABC logo and the circle 5 logo next to it. I also saw it on the news promos today. I wonder if WEWS might start banding similar to ABC O&Os as "ABC5"?


I really hope they do. I hate "News Channel 5". It is old and outdated. Plus it's been kicked around during many image and talent changes. A change to ABC 5 would be refreshing. Something new in the style of O&O, always a plus.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14888167
> 
> 
> Keeping with the new theme of on-air stories, I think channel 5 is also changing as well. Lately I've noticed that the "News Chanel 5" is missing from their commercials. Starting with the Bonnie Hunt Show and now Oprah, they say WEWS-5 instead. Also, I've seen a bug similar to the "ABC7" bugs except with the ABC logo and the circle 5 logo next to it. I also saw it on the news promos today. I wonder if WEWS might start banding similar to ABC O&Os as "ABC5"?
> 
> 
> I really hope they do. I hate "News Channel 5". It is old and outdated. Plus it's been kicked around during many image and talent changes. A change to ABC 5 would be refreshing. Something new in the style of O&O, always a plus.



Scripts Broadcasting, which owns channel 5 started doing that before I left Cincinnati to "News Channel 9", also ABC.


That guy who does the "Don't waste your money" thing on Channel 5? He is actually in Cincinnati. He asked if he could do an interview with me on how I could save money on having services done provided by Ohio companies and avoiding sales taxes. I told him OK but I didn't want them in the house.


I guess he didn't like that. He never contacted me after that.


But it will still be owned by Scripts.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14888206
> 
> 
> Scripts Broadcasting, which owns channel 5 started doing that before I left Cincinnati to "News Channel 9", also ABC.
> 
> 
> That guy who does the "Don't waste your money" thing on Channel 5? He is actually in Cincinnati. *He asked if he could do an interview with me on how I could save money on having services done provided by Ohio companies and avoiding sales taxes.* I told him OK but I didn't want them in the house.
> 
> 
> I guess he didn't like that. He never contacted me after that.
> 
> 
> But it will still be owned by Scripts.



Jeez, hook, you sound like a celebrity. I remember you said something about being on WJW or having a letter read?


And a look at WXYZ shows they are already using the ABC style branding, with the circle 7 and the ABC bug. It would be nice to see in Cleveland too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14888320
> 
> 
> Jeez, hook, you sound like a celebrity. I remember you said something about being on WJW or having a letter read?



Yeah, I'm a legend in my own mind.










It is true, several times I've had my emails read on FOX 8 News in the morning. But it's been a while, the last time they read one I think they were talking about American Idol and I said something like "I've never watched it because I never need to since you practically rebroadcast the next morning. I'm glad (who ever it was) won. Now please cancel the show."


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14888320
> 
> 
> Jeez, hook, you sound like a celebrity. I remember you said something about being on WJW or having a letter read?
> 
> 
> And a look at WXYZ shows they are already using the ABC style branding, with the circle 7 and the ABC bug. It would be nice to see in Cleveland too.



WXYZ has been using the 7 in a circle logo forever. I used to visit family in Detroit back in the 80's and the 7 in a circle was used way back then. If I did not know otherwise, I would have thought WXYZ was an ABC O&O. It took the "great FOX Swap" of '94 for me to learn that WXYZ was NOT an ABC O&O. ABC feared that CBS was going to buy WXYZ so they ended up buying VHF stations in Toledo and Flint/Saganaw/Bay City DMA's to act as "rim shots" to Detroit should CBS bump them off 7. As a result they are the smallest markets with an O&O.


CBS ended up on ch 62! That has to be the highest frequency of any O&O. I know that will be a moot point after the transition but for ~15 years Detroit's CBS was up in the nose bleed section with all the shopping and Spanish channels.


----------



## hookbill

Just to clarify about the "Don't Waste Your Money" segments his name is John Materese and the reason he contacted me was because I emailed him. I had a lawn tractor at that time and I lived in Northern Kentucky. My service was coming out of a town North of Cincinnati and they wanted to charge me sales tax. I challanged that and the company came back and said I was right. From that point on if I needed any "service" like duct cleaning, chimney, etc. I always went to Ohio because there was no sales tax they can charge on a service if they are out of state. I told him about that in my email which peaked his interest.


This guy is really tight. But he's very smart on how to save a buck.


----------



## JJkizak

Right now I am receiving 25.1 and 49.1 OTA and the 25.1 is hanging as steady as 49.1. One wonders when the final switch to DTV occurrs if the channel numbers will remain as they are or will they simplify them instead of punching in all this .1, .2 stuff which drives old people nuts. Old people don't like remotes with small buttons, unlighted buttons, excessive amount of buttons that are never used, etc. They only want "on/off", channel select +-, "sound mute", "volume", "input select", and nothing else.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

From Ben Music :

*Hey guys,

I was just wondering if tomorrow was still SDV day?


Ben Music*


I still have not got a letter, but if they do it since SARA boxes are SDV capable (or at least they are suppose to be - they arn't capable of doing anything with dependability so who knows) we might very well see it here in the Northeast part of the TWNEO area.


Just a reminder, here's the channels:


Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/08


1 Movieloft

185 Access TV

186 Shopping

187 Cable Response TV

188 Gems TV

189 America's Auction Network

190 Hollywood Celebrity Products

191 Celebrity Shopping

192 TV Superstore

193 The Jewelry Channel

194 Shoping

281 Sundance

282 Flix

290 Encore

291 Encore Love

292 Encore Mysteries

293 Encore Drama

294 Encore WAM!

295 Encore Westerns

296 Encore Action

319 FCS Atlantic

320 FCS Central

321 FCS Pacific

322 College Sports TV

324 NHL Network

325 NBA TV

327 Tennis Channel

328 Fuel TV

329 G4

330 Outdoor Channel

350 CNN

351 Headline News

352 Fox News

354 MSNBC

355 CNBC

370 Weather Channel

385 EWTN

399 TWC Infomercials

435 STOHD

436 FSN HD

470 Universal HD

471 HDNet

472 HDNet Movies

473 Mojo

610 HBO W

611 HBO2 W

612 HBO Signature W

613 HBO Family W

614 HBO Comedy W

615 HBO Zone W

710 HD PPV Events

741-754 NHL Center Ice/MLB

761-770 NBA/MLS Sport Packages

781-786 ESPN GamePlan / Full Court

801 GalaVision

805 mun2

806 Canal Sur

807 Cnn en Espanol

808 History en Espanol

809 Discover en Espanol

810 La Familia

811 Toon Disney en Espanol

812 Boomerang en Espanol

813 ESPN Deportes

814 Fox Sports en Espanol

815 MTV Tr3s

816 CineLatino

850 International MOD

851 ART Arabic

852 RAI International

853 TV Asia

854 DW TV

855 Zee TV

857 Filipino Channel

858 TV5Monde

859 TV Japan

860 TV Russia


Now I will guarantee you that if they do this in Los Angeles TW is going to get hit with another fine. Los Angeles, is primarily Latinos. And I grew up with them and fine people they are indeed, but they take a lot of pride in their heritage. While I know of many of them who will say "if you live in America, speak English" there are a great deal who feel that they should continue to use Espanol. Many teach their childeren both languages. Some just teach them Spanish and they learn English at school.


And they have some powerful political pull. Some of the County Supervisors are hispanic and they would not be happy about this.


There are a great deal of Oriental people as well, Vietnamese and Korean. It's truly a dervisified culture.


That's also the reason there is such great places to eat in L.A.


----------



## nickdawg

We're now on the eve of the SDV change







and still no mention of it on TWC's website. I guess the only way non-Tivo viewers will notice tomorrow is if any of the news channels or HBO west channels have tuning problems because of SDV, in that case I think they'd put the analog versions of CNN, MSNBC etc. back up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14898357
> 
> 
> We're now on the eve of the SDV change
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and still no mention of it on TWC's website. I guess the only way non-Tivo viewers will notice tomorrow is if any of the news channels or HBO west channels have tuning problems because of SDV, in that case I think they'd put the analog versions of CNN, MSNBC etc. back up.



They split many of those channels, so that some are analog and some are digital and use the SDV. They spoke about that in the TiVo Forum in the Austin thread and it's in the list that I posted a while back.


Since I still get Universal if I don't see it tomorrow then that may be why. So all of the news channels will still be available. If Universal is gone tomorrow that may be a clue.


I'll take a look at some of the other digital channels, if they are on the lower tier, just to see if they are available and let you know.


But really, how important is it if they arn't offering new HD channels? And as far as their website goes, be serious, they do not keep that thing updated at all.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14898605
> 
> 
> They split many of those channels, so that some are analog and some are digital and use the SDV. They spoke about that in the TiVo Forum in the Austin thread and it's in the list that I posted a while back.



That's what I mean. If the digital SDV channel isn't working on the boxes, they'll have to revert back to the analog version, seen on TVs without STBs.



> Quote:
> Since I still get Universal if I don't see it tomorrow then that may be why. So all of the news channels will still be available. If Universal is gone tomorrow that may be a clue.



Maybe that's why they didn't turn it off when you canceled the other HD tier channels, it's not going to work on either of your Tivos anyway







Universal HD is still turned off here.



> Quote:
> But really, how important is it if they arn't offering new HD channels? And as far as their website goes, be serious, they do not keep that thing updated at all.



It is important. SDV is the key to more HD. Once it is in place and working properly, the HD channels will start lighting up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14898786
> 
> 
> It is important. SDV is the key to more HD. Once it is in place and working properly, the HD channels will start lighting up.



See, that's where you're wrong.


If they had HD channels that they wanted to offer us, they could add them now. They are not out of bandwith. If anything they have more then they did before. They proved that when they provided USAHD and the Olympic Soccer channel.


So while I believe it is true that they are going to eventually start SDV, I don't think it's going to start tomorrow in all areas and I don't think you are going to see a huge amount of additional HD added.


nickdawg cable companies are evil. They could care less about providing quality HD programing to us. They will provide whatever they can get at the cheapest rate.


Just don't want you to get your hopes up to high.


I'll give you a report tomorrow.


Do you see the NFL Network? Nope, and you probably won't.


----------



## hookbill

I made a comment a while back that WBNX comes in as Dolby 5.1 but I never get a signal from my back speakers.


The other day I had a little power problem with my TiVo HD and I was recording an episode of "Supernatural." I missed about 45 minutes of the show. So I did try to find it on Amazon Unbox but they don't have it.


I spotted a copy of it in 720p. Now this is the first time I ever saw bit torrent in 720p format and I wasn't sure if my TiVo would even play it because it wasn't a .avi file, but it downloaded and played just fine.


With Dolby 5.1. And my back speakers were getting signals!


I think this may have been picked up from a New York station, it was channel 11 but it really pisses me off. This means that WBNX is not properly sending out the Dolby 5.1 signal.


Now I can't call them up or write them and say, "Hey dudes, I downloaded a BT the other day and it had my back speakers fired up just great," because they may worry about what I do with the file afterwards (I trashed it).


So we are getting ripped off from WBNX. We are missing real Dolby 5.1 that should be available from other shows.


If anybody has an idea about what I might do, please respond. Send the CW an email?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14899677
> 
> 
> I made a comment a while back that WBNX comes in as Dolby 5.1 but I never get a signal from my back speakers.
> 
> 
> The other day I had a little power problem with my TiVo HD and I was recording an episode of "Supernatural." I missed about 45 minutes of the show. So I did try to find it on Amazon Unbox but they don't have it.
> 
> 
> I spotted a copy of it in 720p. Now this is the first time I ever saw bit torrent in 720p format and I wasn't sure if my TiVo would even play it because it wasn't a .avi file, but it downloaded and played just fine.
> 
> 
> With Dolby 5.1. And my back speakers were getting signals!
> 
> 
> I think this may have been picked up from a New York station, it was channel 11 but it really pisses me off. This means that WBNX is not properly sending out the Dolby 5.1 signal.
> 
> *Now I can't call them up or write them and say, "Hey dudes, I downloaded a BT the other day and it had my back speakers fired up just great," because they may worry about what I do with the file afterwards (I trashed it).*
> 
> 
> So we are getting ripped off from WBNX. We are missing real Dolby 5.1 that should be available from other shows.
> 
> 
> If anybody has an idea about what I might do, please respond. Send the CW an email?



Just tell them you got the show on HD-DVD(or regular DVD), those are usually true 5.1. Or use the power of the forum. Go to the main HDTV forums and ask in the Supernatural one. Then you have the statements of viewers in other markets to back up the fact the show IS 5.1.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...580328&page=22 


I already asked the question. Maybe we'll get an answer.


Now onto the HD. They were able to add three new channels, two only broadcast part of the time. Now another channel has been added, BTN HD. For whatever reason, they're not adding anything now. Maybe SDV will change their minds. We'll have to wait until tomorrow to see.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14899796
> 
> 
> Now onto the HD. They were able to add three new channels, two only broadcast part of the time. Now another channel has been added, *BTN HD*. For whatever reason, they're not adding anything now. Maybe SDV will change their minds. We'll have to wait until tomorrow to see.



Wow, that peaks my interest.







Hope that goes on SDV immediately.


What channel #is this on? I don't even have BTN as a channel marked to show on my TiVo's so I don't know where it wold be in the guide. And what are the "part time" channels? Fishing HD? Watching the Grass Grow HD?


The second one is looking outside your window, nickdawg. Yeah, HDTV is that good.


----------



## hookbill

At least not in my area. However thanks alot guys, as I was exploring around I found out I deliberately unchecked the jewlery channel and gemstone channel which even though it isn't available on the digital basic, is avaialable digital channels.







It's not in the analog range.


Now my wife wants a box for upstairs.










And as far as BTN HD, assuming you mean BET HD I've looked at every blank HD channel and I don't see any listing for it. I physically pushed the channel buttons and nothing that isn't on my guide does not show up except for the Premium HD Channels I don't pay for and the upper tier HD.


And Universal HD is still coming in fine, thank you.










I know the day just started but nothing here yet. I'll try and check before I leave.


One other thing. In the 400 range I figure there is about 50 channels available for HD at this time. I'm doing that based off TW's guide.


----------



## k2rj

Hook, BTN is Big Ten Network... I get them in the 400's above ESPN.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14901037
> 
> 
> Hook, BTN is Big Ten Network... I get them in the 400's above ESPN.



Whoops, I thought nickdawg was talking about something that was added AFTER that. Yep that I get no problem.


Officially it's BTNO HD. But thanks for letting me know, however my feeling doesn't change about that being added. I don't watch college sports really. I like to needle you guys if USC or UCLA beats Ohio States but I really don't watch it.


Speaking about sports, how 'bout them Browns yesterday. Derrick Anderson has got to go, he couldn't throw anything. And now I am convinced, Romeo Crennel has got to go. He made some real bad decisions not only yesterday but throughout the season.


----------



## JJkizak

The only way to save the Browns in their present state is to hire the Big Tuna. He would not tolerate the inconsistancy of D.A. and the "staph infections" that permeate the Browns facilities. The defense is satisfactory to me as they kept them in the game the whole time. Romeo is getting so fat he can hardly walk.

JJK


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14901336
> 
> 
> Officially it's BTNO HD.



That may be it's designation in the guide, but BTN is the widely accepted acronym for the Big Ten Network.


----------



## ErieMarty

I Talked to TW on friday about changing some of the stuff I get..and while on the phone I asked about any new HD channels coming and I was told that we are always looking to add new HD channels but its expensive to do so.


I said..how can that be look what Dish/Direct give you. And was told but you have to pay for them unlike TW.


I said then put them on a Pay level so I have some kind of option to get more HD channels if I want them...


He didn't have much to say after that..


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> I said..how can that be look what Dish/Direct give you. And was told but you have to pay for them unlike TW.



Ok, with satellite service (including all non-premium HD channels) they are STILL cheaper than TW with limited HD channels. Now who's paying more?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14902428
> 
> 
> 
> I said then put them on a Pay level so I have some kind of option to get more HD channels if I want them...
> 
> 
> He didn't have much to say after that..



Neither would I. ABSOLUTELY NOT. If they added HD channels... and made me pay MORE to get them, I'd completely cancel TWC and go OTA. I'm already pissed at s..t like the "Sports Tier", "Choice Tier" and "HDTV Tier" that charge more for channels, some I used to get. DIY and Fine Living used to be included. They're not the best channels, but I'm pissed that the rates have increased AND I get less. I kinda liked the DIY channel, but I'm not paying $5 more to get it. Same goes with anything else. Go ahead and move it, you're not getting more $$$ out of me.


That's also why I'm happy NFL network is holding out on TWC. TWC wants to use NFL N to extort more out of its customers by putting it in a pay tier. I don't care if adding the NFL Network will raise all our prices, prices will rise anyway. TWC raises prices at least once a year for no reason. At least adding channels would be a valid reason. F**K TWC for wanting to make US pay more for games that should be on a cable network available on the standard digital tier.


----------



## black88mx6

Will be watching closely for SDV rollout to occur. While I don't have a TIVO, I do have two TV's with cable cards that are used all the time. These are not supposed to work with SDV also. If I need the channels that go to SDV, then I will be looking for Tru2way sets next, and a course a $$ refund for the channels that I am paying for and can't get anymore. Cable boxes are not an option for me.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/14904459
> 
> 
> Will be watching closely for SDV rollout to occur. While I don't have a TIVO, I do have two TV's with cable cards that are used all the time. These are not supposed to work with SDV also. If I need the channels that go to SDV, then I will be looking for Tru2way sets next, and a course a $$ refund for the channels that I am paying for and can't get anymore. Cable boxes are not an option for me.



I am in the same boat as you. I have 3 TVs with cable cards and 2 Sony HD DVRs with cable cards. I will also be looking for Tru2way if SDV negatively affects me as neither cable boxes nor Tivo is an option for me.


----------



## ErieMarty

what is SDV....


I probably asked before but I can't remember..and how is this suppose to make TV better..


thanks..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14904743
> 
> 
> what is SDV....
> 
> 
> I probably asked before but I can't remember..and how is this suppose to make TV better..
> 
> 
> thanks..



Switched Digital Video.


Google it, I don't have time to explain it to you. Or go to Wikipedia.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/14904687
> 
> 
> I am in the same boat as you. I have 3 TVs with cable cards and 2 Sony HD DVRs with cable cards. I will also be looking for Tru2way if SDV negatively affects me as neither cable boxes nor Tivo is an option for me.



I'm hearing that the new televisions don't have cable cards. Mine's fairly new, I'll have to check.


And the "digital converter" isn't set up for televisions with cable cards. TiVo only.


I have an LCD 37LG30 television. My television has a digital tuner and does not have cable card slots.


I still don't have a handle on what exactly Tru2way is, but if I pulled the cable from my TiVo and hooked it up to the television, I would assume that the hardware will allow me to have digital television and would have 2 way communication.


----------



## nickdawg

As of right now, 10/20/08 8:35 PM, I am getting info on the SDV screen. Haven't checked each channel yet, though.


And this leads into yet another Nickdawg's Special Comment:


Now, I get into the editorial part of this commentary. My bigger fear is that TWC will "slow down" on switched digital video technology after the fools at the FCC have fined cable systems for implementing SDV. THIS is the reason cable sucks!! It's not because of the cable company itself, but the ridiculous, unfair, ass-backwards regulations of the government. The playing field is truly not level. Cable is held to a different standard than satellite. Cable is forced to follow pointless rules such as "must carry" and certain channels must be kept "in the clear" for customers who choose not to have a settop box. Satellite TV is not held to these standards. IPTV systems, FIOS, Uverse are not forced to follow arbitrary, archaic rules either. With a satellite TV system, either you use THEIR box on the TVs you want service on or you get NOTHING. Cable TV *SHOULD* be allowed to operate in the same manner. No more analog channels for the cheap asses who don't want to spring for a STB that's _only_ $7 more a month. Killing analog TV services, ALL OF THEM, would free up enough bandwidth and SDV may not even be necessary. Plus eliminating outdated, garbage services would open up bandwidth for improving services like internet. And using SDV would make the freed up bandwidth even more efficient, meaning HUNDREDS of new HD services: channels and VOD when they become available. And better PQ since channels will not have to be "packed" into limited bandwidth.


But no. Cable must cater to the lowest of the low. Everybody else has to yield to the Joe Six Packs and their offbrand 19inch TV sets from 1989, running just analog channels. Because J6P will be angry if the Oxygen, WE, Shopping and NASCAR/Trucks channel isn't available without one of "them new fangled VCR recordin machines with the fancy space remote". Cable must also cater to the insufferable individuals who must go against the grain and use one of these "Cable Ready TVs". Oh no, cable cannot just build their network around their Scientific Atlanta boxes and the SARA software, but they must also make THEIR network compatible with third-party equipment. And with the increasing technologies that can be delivered over the cable TV network, not only does the physical infrastructure need to be replaced, but all the new software and services have to conform to third party equipment. Something satellite does not.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14904743
> 
> 
> what is SDV....
> 
> 
> I probably asked before but I can't remember..and how is this suppose to make TV better..
> 
> 
> thanks..



Switched Digital Video. Long story short, it's a way to cook the books in the bandwidth department so more channels can be added to a network with limited bandwidth(ie cable). SDV uses a two-way communication similar to VOD to download the "stream" of the channel you want to watch/record. This way bandwidth is saved by not sending EVERY channel to EVERY viewer. With less watched channels, the extra bandwidth can be reclaimed to add more HDTV channels.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14905860
> 
> 
> No more analog channels for the cheap asses who don't want to spring for a STB that's _only_ $7 more a month.



Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.


Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.


Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!


- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14905937
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.
> 
> 
> Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.
> 
> 
> Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!
> 
> 
> - Trip



...and heaven forbid if you have 4 HDTVs like I do. By the time you get done paying for boxes...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14905937
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.
> 
> 
> Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.
> 
> 
> Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!
> 
> 
> - Trip



$96/year just for the boxes? Standard service is $59 a month alone. Plus $5 if you want digital cable and extra if you want premium services.


When you go month by month, $7 is nothing in the bigger scheme. Think of cell phone, DSL internet, home phone, gas, electric, water, etc. If spending just $7 more a month is causing a "financial crisis", cancel the entire $59 cable service and go OTA. Start investing that money. You're saving alot of money, Trip.


And 4 HDTVs. This is where cable needs to adjust this on their end. Charge an initial $7 for the first box and have any additional cost around $3 a month(less than satellite).


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14906132
> 
> 
> $96/year just for the boxes? Standard service is $59 a month alone. Plus $5 if you want digital cable and extra if you want premium services.
> 
> 
> When you go month by month, $7 is nothing in the bigger scheme. Think of cell phone, DSL internet, home phone, gas, electric, water, etc. If spending just $7 more a month is causing a "financial crisis", cancel the entire $59 cable service and go OTA. Start investing that money. You're saving alot of money, Trip.
> 
> 
> And 4 HDTVs. This is where cable needs to adjust this on their end. Charge an initial $7 for the first box and have any additional cost around $3 a month(less than satellite).



All in all, that is a lot of money to spend on TV. I'm glad I use OTA.


$96 is $96. That $96 could go into a savings account or a CD or some other investment to bring a return. $96 can buy a lot of food I've found since I've starting cooking for myself at college. Just because it makes up a small percentage of an overall expense doesn't mean it shouldn't be saved.


I already pay my own cell phone bill, and I'm considering not renewing next time it comes up if I can get a pre-paid phone that's decent.


- Trip


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14905860
> 
> 
> Everybody else has to yield to the Joe Six Packs and their offbrand 19inch TV sets from 1989, running just analog channels. Because J6P will be angry if the Oxygen, WE, Shopping and NASCAR/Trucks channel



Hey, I'm pretty sure J6P had his name changed to Joe The Plumber


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14905891
> 
> 
> Switched Digital Video. Long story short, it's a way to cook the books in the bandwidth department so more channels can be added to a network with limited bandwidth(ie cable). SDV uses a two-way communication similar to VOD to download the "stream" of the channel you want to watch/record. This way bandwidth is saved by not sending EVERY channel to EVERY viewer. With less watched channels, the extra bandwidth can be reclaimed to add more HDTV channels.



It's also a way to make people who have Digital Televisions with cable cards have to purchase a box.


I didn't get an answer on my television, but I suppose if I hook it up straight to the cable what kind of HD would I get?


This crap is getting to far out of hand, and quit blaming the FCC, their job is to control what we view and make it fair for everyone. And to band evil things like Janet Jackson's malfunction, censor music played on the air waves and more importantly, get you so upset that you are ready to climb the walls.

















I'm still getting Universal HD too.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14905860
> 
> 
> And this leads into yet another Nickdawg's Special Comment:
> 
> 
> *snip*



And this is really what it all boils down to. The FCC has some major vendetta against the cableco's and are holding them to what are some of the worst regulations ever when competitors like Satellite, IPTV, Fiber, etal are, for the most part, left to run things indeed how they desire to which to be brutally honest DOES often benefit the consumer to some degree even though the bottom line is their profits.


And this brings up another point. A lot of you here in this very thread have been clamoring how Satellite is great or FiOS is great and Cable sucks. Wanna know why? BINGO. Thanks to the FCC, they can't improve services to match wits with DirecTV or Dish or Verizon or AT&T. Thanks to the FCC they have to be stuck in essentially 80s land and inch forward ever so slowly with technological progress.

*Don't hate on the players, hate on the referees.*


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14906554
> 
> 
> And this is really what it all boils down to. The FCC has some major vendetta against the cableco's and are holding them to what are some of the worst regulations ever when competitors like Satellite, IPTV, Fiber, etal are, for the most part, left to run things indeed how they desire to which to be brutally honest DOES often benefit the consumer to some degree even though the bottom line is their profits.
> 
> 
> And this brings up another point. A lot of you here in this very thread have been clamoring how Satellite is great or FiOS is great and Cable sucks. Wanna know why? BINGO. Thanks to the FCC, they can't improve services to match wits with DirecTV or Dish or Verizon or AT&T. Thanks to the FCC they have to be stuck in essentially 80s land and *inch forward ever so slowly with technological progress.*
> 
> *Don't hate on the players, hate on the referees.*



And every time they do inch forward, the referees are there to hit them with some kind of trumped up penalty.


There needs to be a serious house cleaning at the FCC. From the top down. The ridiculous rules about broadcast TV need to be changed and the rules about cable. The only rules cable should have to follow are the rules satellite has to.


Why the HELL should cable be forced to operate in a manner similar to OTA? Especially when satellite does not. The goal of cable should be providing competitive services with competitive prices to satellite, NOT being OTA without an antenna.


----------



## Vchat20

And just to add to these string of points: To those complaining about set-top fees, keep this in mind: If TW and other cablecos were given the ability to go full hog 100% digital without the referees slamming them with penalties as it were, I'd completely see them going the route of DirecTV and offering the first or second set-top free as part of the service and after that charge a nominal fee for more.

I'm sure they've watched well over the years how the DBS companies started with multi-hundred dollar customer owned set-tops to leased monthly fee boxes to now having the idea of the first 1 or 2 being free with the service with the rest being charged a monthly fee and all this development to retain customers. I'm sure TW sees that point and would use that same idea to their advantage GIVEN the ability to actually go this route if the FCC would ever let up.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14905103
> 
> 
> And the "digital converter" isn't set up for televisions with cable cards. TiVo only.




Not true. If Sony sends the software upgrade through a USB flash drive like they have been saying they will, my Hi Def DVRs will also be able to access SDV channels. They should, given the fact they appeared on the market along with the Mitsubishi Hi Def DVR almost 2 years before the Tivo S3 came out in September 2006, back in December 2004.


My Sony TVs with cable cards are a different story however.


----------



## nickdawg

WOOT!! Page 500!!
























Here's to page 1000!


----------



## nickdawg

On closer inspection, I see that even though SDV is enabled, I don't think anything is being passed in SDV yet. Under Registration Time I see "SDB not registered" and the SDB server port is unknown.


This probably explains why hook still gets UHD and none of the channels appear to be different.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14907348
> 
> 
> On closer inspection, I see that even though SDV is enabled, I don't think anything is being passed in SDV yet. Under Registration Time I see "SDB not registered" and the SDB server port is unknown.
> 
> 
> This probably explains why hook still gets UHD and none of the channels appear to be different.



I've seen no evidence that SDV is coming to the former Adelphia part of the TWC system, which hookbill and I are on.


I don't usually look at my cable bill, as I pay it online and it's about the same amount each month. But I did download the PDFs of my last three cable bills, and saw no SDV-related notice at least in the bill. I haven't gotten one in the mail otherwise, either.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I just rebooted my HDC and I now get 'SDV Authorized', but tuning failed. So it's up here too over in Trumbull. Just waiting to see when they actually start putting channels into effect.


Btw, I still haven't given up on getting rid of this POS. My aunt across town upgraded from an 8300 (SD) when she got herself a new LCD HDTV and they gave her an 8000HD which is a major shocker and this is only a few weeks ago. So apparently they're somewhat flexible. I just need to find SOMEONE in CSR that has a flippin' clue what they're talking about and actually get them to highlight, circle, jumbo print *8300HD, not 8300HDC* on the tech work order.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14907440
> 
> 
> Yeah. I just rebooted my HDC and I now get 'SDV Authorized', but tuning failed. So it's up here too over in Trumbull. Just waiting to see when they actually start putting channels into effect.
> 
> 
> Btw, I still haven't given up on getting rid of this POS. My aunt across town upgraded from an 8300 (SD) when she got herself a new LCD HDTV and they gave her an 8000HD which is a major shocker and this is only a few weeks ago. So apparently they're somewhat flexible. I just need to find SOMEONE in CSR that has a flippin' clue what they're talking about and actually get them to highlight, circle, jumbo print *8300HD, not 8300HDC* on the tech work order.



The 8000HD is NOT an upgrade. It is worse than the HDC. The 8000 series of boxes are the original SA DVR boxes that TWC first introduced back in 2004 and they are even slower than the 8300s.


The fact anything is coming through on the SDV screen is a good sign. That means the network must be in place and ready to move channels. baby steps.


Also, I checked this morning and I had nothing. The SDV enabled only appeared later in the day with no reboot or anything. Keep waiting, it must be coming.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, I'll be honest with you in that even the 8000HD STILL runs circles around the 8300HDC. I honestly don't know how TW horribly screwed up the performance on these boxes, but EVERYTHING can beat out the HDC in performance, even possibly the old Pioneer's (I haven't used one since they went full-hog with Mystro/Nav, so I dunno).


Both the old 8000 I had with Mystro and my Aunt's 8000HD are VERY responsive and have absolutely no slowdowns that I can perceive. They even have real nice fades in and out of the guide, menus, and the channel banner.


The 8300HDC is just GARBAGE, PERIOD. And in my own personal experience, it has the worst performance of any boxes that TW has available. And what's worse is they are trying to push everyone to these POS's.


I'd honestly take the 8000HD over the HDC if given the choice only between the two. I cannot stand this soon-to-be hitch-anchor.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14907503
> 
> 
> Also, I checked this morning and I had nothing. The SDV enabled only appeared later in the day with no reboot or anything. Keep waiting, it must be coming.



Yeah. Same situation. Knowing their 2AM mainteance windows, I rebooted about 3:30 yesterday morning and nothing changed yet so it had to have been somewhere between then and now. But it required a forced reboot. Expected though probably until they actually start moving channels over.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14907514
> 
> 
> Actually, I'll be honest with you in that even the 8000HD STILL runs circles around the 8300HDC. I honestly don't know how TW horribly screwed up the performance on these boxes, but EVERYTHING can beat out the HDC in performance, even possibly the old Pioneer's (I haven't used one since they went full-hog with Mystro/Nav, so I dunno).
> 
> 
> Both the old 8000 I had with Mystro and my Aunt's 8000HD are VERY responsive and have absolutely no slowdowns that I can perceive. They even have real nice fades in and out of the guide, menus, and the channel banner.
> 
> 
> The 8300HDC is just GARBAGE, PERIOD. And in my own personal experience, it has the worst performance of any boxes that TW has available. And what's worse is they are trying to push everyone to these POS's.
> 
> 
> I'd honestly take the 8000HD over the HDC if given the choice only between the two. I cannot stand this soon-to-be hitch-anchor.



Wow. I was lucky enough to only have to use the HDC for about a month or two(this time last year) before trading it for a then-Passport 8300HD. I'm truly shocked that even a dinosaur like the 8000 would run better than a *new* box. But then again I remember how bad that HDC box was. Don't think the HDC box did the fade effect either.


I guess you'll be calling Hookbill about that chain soon?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14907544
> 
> 
> Wow. I was lucky enough to only have to use the HDC for about a month or two(this time last year) before trading it for a then-Passport 8300HD. I'm truly shocked that even a dinosaur like the 8000 would run better than a *new* box. But then again I remember how bad that HDC box was. Don't think the HDC box did the fade effect either.



Yeah. Like I said, TW royally screwed something up for the HDC to be so horrible in performance even compared to the old SA8000.


And you really wanna know WHY they are using the HDC boxes? The FCC comes back up again. Yet another regulation forcing all new boxes that CableCo's buy THEMSELVES to provide to customers to have the security functions separated out to cablecard support instead of being integrated like all the other boxes they've had. Why is that even a CONCERN? Not like the customers are allowed to take the boxes to another cable company anyways.







If you try, say hello to a $400 doorstop you have to pay for.


Thanks again FCC for being a royal ****-up and making bureaucratic hell for the cableco's to satiate your own vendetta.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14907544
> 
> 
> I guess you'll be calling Hookbill about that chain soon?



No kidding. >>


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14907440
> 
> *Yeah. I just rebooted my HDC and I now get 'SDV Authorized', but tuning failed.* So it's up here too over in Trumbull. Just waiting to see when they actually start putting channels into effect.



What does that mean? You couldn't get the channel?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14907440
> 
> 
> Btw, I still haven't given up on getting rid of this POS. My aunt across town upgraded from an 8300 (SD) when she got herself a new LCD HDTV and they gave her an 8000HD which is a major shocker and this is only a few weeks ago. So apparently they're somewhat flexible. I just need to find SOMEONE in CSR that has a flippin' clue what they're talking about and actually get them to highlight, circle, jumbo print *8300HD, not 8300HDC* on the tech work order.



Guys, TW is not like Best Buy or Circuit City. You simply cannot say, "I'd like the SA 8300, not the SA 830HDC." They give you what they have in stock.


When I went to get my TiVo HD activated and I wrote Mr. Fry about the inconvienience and delay of cable card install, and complained about the service from the Concord office I got a call from the Concord Service office manager. He was distressed over the fact that I had dinged them and gave me his direct number if I ever had any other service issues, in other words, "Please call me first, don't go to Mr. Fry."







He assurred me that when they came out they would come out after 6:30 pm and that they would have several M cards with them to make sure it worked.


Well the got there before 6:00 pm and they did not have "M" cards, all that had were "S" cards. No "M" cards in stock. I didn't give a hoot really so two S cards were fine.


Point is if they don't have it available and you don't call at the right time when somebody turns their box in you take what they got. End of story.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14907698
> 
> 
> Yeah. Like I said, TW royally screwed something up for the HDC to be so horrible in performance even compared to the old SA8000.



Let's put the blame where it belongs. Not Time Warner, this is Cicsco (Scientific Atlanta) who designed SDV. Go to their web page and read about it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14907698
> 
> 
> And you really wanna know WHY they are using the HDC boxes? The FCC comes back up again. Yet another regulation forcing all new boxes that CableCo's buy THEMSELVES to provide to customers to have the security functions separated out to cablecard support instead of being integrated like all the other boxes they've had. Why is that even a CONCERN? Not like the customers are allowed to take the boxes to another cable company anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you try, say hello to a $400 doorstop you have to pay for.



Wrong again my friend. While the FCC did tell the cable companies they had to make existing equipment be able to work with their new designs, it was Cablelabs that came up with the idea of the cable cards. And quite honestly they are a disaster in design because so many cable companies have different systems. So once again you can look at Cisco.


----------



## hookbill

Today I plan on purchasing a new Television for my wife. All the channels that are on the SDV list are the ones she wants.










So somehow I have to figure out if the new televisions, like my 37LG30 which does not come with cable card slots but is HD ready is going to require a box. Since it doesn't have a cable card in it I have to assume that the hardware is two way capable, unlike my TiVo which isn't but does require cable cards.


And in addition to this there is absolutely no evidence of SDV being implemented in my area. I checked out the Jewlery channel this morning and it came in just fine off my TiVo HD. Now that television is simply a "HD ready" box, it does not have a different tuner.


Universal HD is still there nickdawg.










My wife says there is a "problem with the picture" on the old TV she watches. Yes, the problem is she is spoiled by HD and high tech digital so her picture looks like crap to her now but she doesn't realize it's exactly the same.


So maybe I'll get a new television for the bedroom, wife can have our current bedroom television and I'll get her a box from TW, but I am not getting a DVR. New orders at TW told me over the phone I can walk into the Macedonia office and get a STB only but I've heard otherwise, that they give you a DVR and promise that you won't be charged only they charge you anyway.


And also I noticed that my bill for Showtime is now 12.00 instead of 10.00 because it is now "Showtime and Showtime with On Demand." Check your bill, they've bumped it for the On Demand features. Which I don't get since I use a TiVo.


----------



## hookbill

One last thing. This message of "Tuning Failed" could very well mean that SDV may not be compatible with the system in your area, and if you arn't getting the channel at all, light those lines up folks or use the email address.


If you don't have the address by now, run a search on Steve Fry in this forum.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14907956
> 
> 
> So somehow I have to figure out if the new televisions, like my 37LG30 which does not come with cable card slots but is HD ready is going to require a box. Since it doesn't have a cable card in it I have to assume that the hardware is two way capable, unlike my TiVo which isn't but does require cable cards.



I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for. I have doubts that any of the HDTVs on the market are two way capable. If there isn't a cable card slot then it certainly won't be. If there is a cable card slot it would probably boast the fact that it is two way capable.


So, pretty much, you'll need a box for any HDTV you get.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14908307
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for. I have doubts that any of the HDTVs on the market are two way capable. If there isn't a cable card slot then it certainly won't be. If there is a cable card slot it would probably boast the fact that it is two way capable.
> 
> 
> So, pretty much, you'll need a box for any HDTV you get.



No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.


You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.


It's very confusing.


Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14908307
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for. I have doubts that any of the HDTVs on the market are two way capable. If there isn't a cable card slot then it certainly won't be. If there is a cable card slot it would probably boast the fact that it is two way capable.
> 
> 
> So, pretty much, you'll need a box for any HDTV you get.



Yeah. Without a STB or a CableCard he'll only get the free basic cable.

If the tv has a QAM tuner as well he can also get the locals in HD, but QAM is pretty limited in functionality.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14908356
> 
> 
> Yeah. Without a STB or a CableCard he'll only get the free basic cable.
> 
> If the tv has a QAM tuner as well he can also get the locals in HD, but QAM is pretty limited in functionality.



They all have QAM tuners now. Take a look on the web, none of them have cable cards.


When you say "limited funtionaility" what exactly do you mean? This is not for me it's for the wife and I'll get a box if I have to


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14908339
> 
> 
> No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.
> 
> 
> You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.
> 
> 
> It's very confusing.
> 
> 
> Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.



Yup. As I said before, the entire CableCard implementation was botched from the beginning. So much so that consumers and CE manufacturers have largely given up on it.


I don't know enough about the technology but I'd guess Tru2Way is probably rather useless without CableCard functionality. The CableCard's are unique to each cable co, just like their STB's. So Tru2Way probably can't do it's thing on TWC's system without TWC's CableCard to interface with their system. At least, that's what I'd expect.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14908425
> 
> 
> They all have QAM tuners now. Take a look on the web, none of them have cable cards.
> 
> 
> When you say "limited funtionaility" what exactly do you mean? This is not for me it's for the wife and I'll get a box if I have to



QAM limitations vary from each provider. A few of the more common functionality issues:

- QAM ch's move around (probably just to piss off the freeloaders like us who use QAM)









- QAM ch's are usually different than your STB or basic cable ch #'s.

- Limited or no program data

- Ch's are added and later deleted, by accident or on purpose

- Limited (usually) to the federally mandated local ch's "in the clear"

- Usually the only additional QAM offerings are Digital Music ch's and shopping ch's

- To find or add additional ch's can require an entire scan of the entire cable systems offerings. Now you must sift through 100's of ch's that the scan found to find the one new ch that has been added (and may not be there next week). QAM will "find" every ch the cable co offers, it just can't tune in the encrypted ch's which is probably 95+ % of the ch numbers your QAM scan will return.


All of this is certainly manageable and doable via QAM and most of these issues may not even affect TWC QAM offerings, I dunno. It just takes a bit more time and effort to utilize QAM.










QAM is most certainly a "you get what you pay for" type service.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14908339
> 
> 
> No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.
> 
> 
> You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.
> 
> 
> It's very confusing.
> 
> 
> Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.



Hook,


Here's a link to the first Tru2way sets available...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/15...go-and-denver/ 



> Quote:
> We already saw Panasonic's 50-inch TH-50PZ80Q plasma doing the tru2way thing at CEDIA 2008, but the official lever has just been pulled in Denver and Chicago. As of today, Comcast's tru2way platform is active in the aforesaid cities, and the very first tru2way-capable HDTVs are arriving to retail. Eager consumers in the Windy or Mile High City who are ready to ditch the set-top-box altogether without sacrificing VOD and such can polish off their wounded credit cards, as both a 42-inch (TH-42PZ80Q; $1,599.95) and 50-inch (TH-50PZ80Q; $2,299.95) VIERA plasma will be on sale by "late October." As for the rest of the US anxious to dip in the cool, cool waters of tru2way? A few undisclosed locales should be going live with the service "in the coming months," though your guess is as good as ours as to what exactly that means.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14908569
> 
> 
> QAM limitations vary from each provider. A few of the more common functionality issues:
> 
> - QAM ch's move around (probably just to piss off the freeloaders like us who use QAM)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - QAM ch's are usually different than your STB or basic cable ch #'s.
> 
> - Limited or no program data
> 
> - Ch's are added and later deleted, by accident or on purpose
> 
> - Limited (usually) to the federally mandated local ch's "in the clear"]
> 
> - Usually the only additional QAM offerings are Digital Music ch's and *shopping ch's*- To find or add additional ch's can require an entire scan of the entire cable systems offerings. Now you must sift through 100's of ch's that the scan found to find the one new ch that has been added (and may not be there next week). QAM will "find" every ch the cable co offers, it just can't tune in the encrypted ch's which is probably 95+ % of the ch numbers your QAM scan will return.




DING DING DING. We have a winner!


That is EXACTLY what my wife wants. The shopping channels


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14908691
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> Here's a link to the first Tru2way sets available...
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/15...go-and-denver/



Gotcha! I'm going to give the 26LG30 a shot. If I need a box I'll get one.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/14908691
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> Here's a link to the first Tru2way sets available...
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/15...go-and-denver/



No mention of needing the physical "CableCard", only says "won't need a cable operators STB". So maybe the physical card isn't needed?


Or are the physical "CableCard's" assumed and implied?


EDIT: Upon further reading it appears no physical CableCard is needed.









EDIT 2: Whooops......looks like the CNet article is mistaken, p 14 of the Panny Users Guide says "to enjoy Tru2Way tv......step ONE...insert CableCard....".

But then other online sources claim this Panny has an M-card and not a CableCard? The confusion continues.......


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14908715
> 
> 
> DING DING DING. We have a winner!
> 
> 
> That is EXACTLY what my wife wants. The shopping channels



HA!










I'd guess most QAM users probably do their ch surfing via the free basic cable offerings, then switch to QAM when they decide on a program offered in HD (usually the locals).


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14908339
> 
> 
> No, the one's that have cable cards are no longer available. They are all QAM tuning (this is what I'm learning). The one's that were sold with cable cards unfortunately do not have two way capable hardware.
> 
> 
> You see it's the hardware, not the cable card that makes it two way. My understanding however that tru2way does involve a cable card of some sort, but then again the SA boxes with SARA software do not.
> 
> 
> It's very confusing.
> 
> 
> Anyway I think I found an 26LG30 that I'm going to purchase. But I'm not sure if it's hardware is two way capable. Sony is behind the tru2way but I don't even know if there televisions or anyone elses are on the market yet.



As you said, a cable card should be involved in the two way capabilities of a set. I understand that the cable card doesn't make a device two way. My point is if the set doesn't have a cable card slot, then it isn't even close to being two way capable.


The TH-50PZ80Q mentioned in the Engadget article does require a cable card. It also appears from Panasonic's site and manual that two way capable sets will be boasting that functionality so it will be quite clear if they are capable as I assumed they would.
ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni.../TH42PZ80Q.pdf


----------



## black88mx6

All true2way sets and devices will require a cable card 2.0 or M spec. These cards have been around now for over a year.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/14910334
> 
> 
> All true2way sets and devices will require a cable card 2.0 or M spec. These cards have been around now for over a year.



That's what I had suspected. So one way or another the customer must rent a device (CableCard, M-card, STB) from the cable provider to utilize Tru2Way features.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14905937
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm an OTA viewer, I know nothing of cable and its ways. But I just had to say something here. I had opinions on the rest of the post, but I didn't feel like typing it all out; this is one point I felt necessary to make.
> 
> 
> Only? $7 * 12 months is $96. Now I don't know about you, but to me, $96 is a lot of money. And that doesn't even pay for the programming. Which has commercials in it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Ditto Trip, If Cable is what you all enjoy, so be it. I only had this service a bit over a year when it was forced to me in an apartment. I've only had OTA myself, if that somehow vanished, I'd likely just watch DVD's or rent movies... better yet the Library is free!










I'm sure many of you remember in the back of your mind TELEVISION IS NOT A UTILITY!! The original concept of subscription TV was a) to bring TV service into areas that had no service b) to provide COMMERCIAL FREE TV for a price.


I also do without a Cell phone or DSL for that matter (& bottled water too). & YES $96 a month is a lot to me also. All fine & good if you are doing well, but I've learned over time that the 'Great Job' that pays for all this neat stuff may not be there tomorrow.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14905937
> 
> 
> Is that $7/month per box? If people are paying that kind of money just to watch TV, no wonder we're in a financial crisis!
> 
> 
> - Trip



The partial reason of this financial crisis, is that people over that past few decades have been 'brainwashed' to believe they 'need' all these innecessities they have done without for years, & are living well beyond their means & 2 weeks away from bankruptcy.... sad.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14906273
> 
> 
> $96 is $96. That $96 could go into a savings account or a CD or some other investment to bring a return.
> 
> - Trip



Unfurtunately, the banks currently pay VERY little in return, almost wonder why they are in trouble, defaulted loans?


Ouch!!! Lets now return to Cable TV Banter







, a few of my neighbors are still insisting that TWC is charging them for a box just to get ANY HD, period, including the locals.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14911098
> 
> 
> Unfurtunately, the banks currently pay VERY little in return, almost wonder why they are in trouble, defaulted loans?
> 
> 
> Ouch!!! Lets now return to Cable TV Banter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , a few of my neighbors are still insisting that TWC is charging them for a box just to get ANY HD, period, including the locals.



If they don't have a QAM tuner this is true. Or, they have a QAM tuner and either don't know they have it or don't know how to use it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14911098
> 
> 
> Unfurtunately, the banks currently pay VERY little in return, almost wonder why they are in trouble, defaulted loans?
> 
> 
> Ouch!!! Lets now return to Cable TV Banter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , a few of my neighbors are still insisting that TWC is charging them for a box just to get ANY HD, period, including the locals.



Technically they are. Unless you want to play around with the freeloader method of using the ATSC tuner to get the channels. I like the cable box. I turn it on and watch TV. No need to worry if a channel is moved or deleted and you have to re-scan to find it. Plus I have a 7 day grid guide and a banner that tells me what's on, every channel all the time. Local newspapers don't even publish the schedule anymore and TV guide only shows network TV primetime and cable.


I've tried it all. I accidentally discovered the "in the clear" channels and used them in between boxes, but I could not stand the weird numbers. I like the current 400 numbering over the weird positions like 104-2 etc. Also, the SD digital picture on the under 100 channels is far superior to the analog garbage I get without a box. The grain/interference/fuzz was unwatchable after seeing the HD channels and even the few odd SD digital channels thrown in.


I've also tried OTA. Not as a primary source, but on the side. I live in an old house and it has the antenna on the roof and the wiring inside. I was able to get 5, 19, 43, 45, 55, 61 and 67. 3 and 25 NEVER came in. But they usually don't. 19 was kinda buggy.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14911711
> 
> 
> I've also tried OTA. Not as a primary source, but on the side. I live in an old house and it has the antenna on the roof and the wiring inside. I was able to get 5, 19, 43, 45, 55, 61 and 67. *3 and 25 NEVER came in. But they usually don't.* 19 was kinda buggy.



That's because you live in Akron, not Parma or Seven Hills.










Presumably, that'll change when 3/25 go full power from their new tower, and 3 moves to DT 17...


----------



## hookbill

OK, I just got done with everything. I got an 26LG30 for the wife. I hooked it up and tried using just qam. Well, it took me a bit to figure it out and I thought, "geeze, my wife won't be able to use this." And since all the jewlery channels are on that list of SDV I say the heck with it and off I go to TW Macedonia.


It took her 20 minutes and several p.o.'d people left because she was having trouble adding showtime. I mention the SDV coming and she says she hasn't heard a thing about it. I said, your kidding, people are getting this in the mail. Nope, she says doesn't know anything about SDV coming soon. She checks with her manager and he says "not around here."


So I come home and I say, "Hey, this is a better TV then the one hooked up in the bedroom so I'll use the HDMI on this." I do and I kind of calibrate it and I go back to hook up the TiVo to the components.


But TiVo says no, we are not using components or I'll give you this funny looking picture. Well, either TiVo or the television said it so I switched back.


Then I went and set up the remote which was an adventure as there was only one code for LG and it was wrong. So I try the auto thing and I'll be darned if it isn't like the fifth one it tries. But I'm tired and slow and I can't figure out how to set it up. Finally I read the directions again and after about, oh another 1/2 an hour that's done.


So I'm going to order an HDMI cable for this thing and hopefully find a good calibration. I kind of used the one on my 37LG30 and it seems to at least be close. For some reason it won't let me use the "Just Fit" but that may because it's on component.


Anyway, SDV? Nobody knows nothing. I haven't got a letter, the jewlery channels come in fine.


I think you guys are making all this stuff up.










I lug the old 19" television down to the basement and let me tell you, that sucker was heavy.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14910544
> 
> 
> That's what I had suspected. So one way or another the customer must rent a device (CableCard, M-card, STB) from the cable provider to utilize Tru2Way features.



Yes, I pay about 7 dollars a month for 2 cablecards. Worth it to me not to have the set-top box, and also to have the TV decode the signal. Mitsubishi puts out several largers sets that have the orginal cable cards. Pretty good sets and one of them has a soundbar. I would pick one up if I didn't think tru2way was so close. I might pick one up anyways if the price goes down some more, if only we knew for sure when SDV is coming to NEO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/14913172
> 
> 
> Yes, I pay about 7 dollars a month for 2 cablecards. Worth it to me not to have the set-top box, and also to have the TV decode the signal. Mitsubishi puts out several largers sets that have the orginal cable cards. Pretty good sets and one of them has a soundbar. I would pick one up if I didn't think tru2way was so close. I might pick one up anyways if the price goes down some more, if only we knew for sure when SDV is coming to NEO.



But those sets with cable cards will not work with Tru2Way. The hardware is not capable of two way communications.


You'll end up getting a box for your current set, unless you have TiVo.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/14913172
> 
> 
> Yes, I pay about 7 dollars a month for 2 cablecards. Worth it to me not to have the set-top box, and also to have the TV decode the signal. Mitsubishi puts out several largers sets that have the orginal cable cards. Pretty good sets and one of them has a soundbar. I would pick one up if I didn't think tru2way was so close. I might pick one up anyways if the price goes down some more, if only we knew for sure when SDV is coming to NEO.



Oh I understand the value and benefits of CableCards, wasn't questioning that aspect. There seems to be confusion out there (again) regarding Tru2Way and whether or not CableCards are needed with it.


The few articles I've read regarding Tru2Way make it very clear "no STB needed" ...... but then either completely neglect to mention the need for the CableCards or bury that info deep in the article. Even the CNet reviewer got it wrong.


----------



## hookbill

Now that I've had a chance to play around with this I have to give this STB a complete thumbs up. The remote that comes with it has some additional features I haven't seen before, like a one push favorite button, but more importantly this STB has HDMI.


Of course TW doesn't give you the HDMI cable, because since they think like you, they want you to have to deal with 5 cables instead of just 1.


I guess the argument on this would be older models of HD televisions may not have HDMI.


Now I had mentioned that they took a long time getting the STB to add Showtime. When I looked at it last night did add Showtime. Along with HBO, Starz, and Cinemax.


But only on that television. My TiVo's are not receiving that.


Still I didn't want any unexpected surprises so I just called TW and I told them what was going on and he said the he just shows me being billed for Showtime.


I said that's all I wanted to know, I kind of heard a smile in his voice and he said you have a great day sir.










One other thing. I mentioned that I was having difficulty with a setting on the 26LG30 called "Just Fit" which set's it for the program that is coming through. I called LG and the guy said it was the cable box and of course he was right, I didn't set it for pass thru. Once I did that the problem was fixed.


While I had him there I asked if he had any specs for callibration and his response was, "You should not change those. I know many people think they need to do this but this will cause software problems."


In all the years I've dealt with HDTV's I haven't heard that. Also the callibration for my LG3730 was from CNET!


I think this guy is just a CSR (not in America) and probably just being told to tell people this. Anybody else ever hear of anything like this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14916312
> 
> 
> The few articles I've read regarding Tru2Way make it very clear "no STB needed" ...... but then either completely neglect to mention the need for the CableCards or bury that info deep in the article. Even the CNet reviewer got it wrong.



No STB will be needed so long as you have a cable card and the Tru2Way hardware. If you don't, then you will need a STB or DVR.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14916382
> 
> 
> Now I had mentioned that they took a long time getting the STB to add Showtime. When I looked at it last night did add Showtime. Along with HBO, Starz, and Cinemax.
> 
> 
> But only on that television. My TiVo's are not receiving that.
> 
> 
> Still I didn't want any unexpected surprises so I just called TW and I told them what was going on and he said the he just shows me being billed for Showtime.



I don't remember if this was discussed in this thread or in another, but it's likely that your STB isn't fully registered on the network. Can you use any of the PPV/OnDemand features of the box (for PPV can you tune to a PPV channel and get the message that says you can buy the program)?


----------



## black88mx6

It will be interesting to see how cable companys treat tru2way rolls. Its the same cable card that needs to be installed in the TV; but now the cable company gets all the benefits of a set top box (PPV, Guide, SDV), without actually having one there. I have a feeling that suddenly all the problems that they had installing cable cards will vanish.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14912227
> 
> 
> I lug the old 19" television down to the basement and let me tell you, that sucker was heavy.



I had a 32" Sony I 'inherated' that was sitting in storage for 8 months before I finally got help from 2 others to move this finally last month. This was a 3 person operation, as one person has to keep it from tipping forward over the weight of the tube.... now THAT was heavy! it actually started to bend a 2 wheeler that was rated for 350 lbs due to its uneven weight & shape.


Oh yes, I finally found the 27" Console a good home, that had such a good picture I hated to part with it.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14911711
> 
> 
> Technically they are. Unless you want to play around with the freeloader method of using the ATSC tuner to get the channels. I like the cable box. I turn it on and watch TV. No need to worry if a channel is moved or deleted and you have to re-scan to find it. Plus I have a 7 day grid guide and a banner that tells me what's on, every channel all the time. Local newspapers don't even publish the schedule anymore and TV guide only shows network TV primetime and cable.
> 
> 
> I've tried it all. I accidentally discovered the "in the clear" channels and used them in between boxes, but I could not stand the weird numbers. I like the current 400 numbering over the weird positions like 104-2 etc. Also, the SD digital picture on the under 100 channels is far superior to the analog garbage I get without a box. The grain/interference/fuzz was unwatchable after seeing the HD channels and even the few odd SD digital channels thrown in.
> 
> 
> I've also tried OTA. Not as a primary source, but on the side. I live in an old house and it has the antenna on the roof and the wiring inside. I was able to get 5, 19, 43, 45, 55, 61 and 67. 3 and 25 NEVER came in. But they usually don't. 19 was kinda buggy.



I used to have to program the Ex GF's about once every 6 weeks & write down where the Local HD's were, but now she said she could no longer find them after TWC called & told her she now needed to rent a box for this. She also had a few extra HD channel's like GSN & a few others but it was purely random, in fact they were testing some channels once when I was reprogramming this, they were showing Borat & Happy Feet, just after they were available on DVD, but not yet on the premiums.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14918553
> 
> 
> I had a 32" Sony I 'inherated' that was sitting in storage for 8 months before I finally got help from 2 others to move this finally last month. This was a 3 person operation, as one person has to keep it from tipping forward over the weight of the tube.... now THAT was heavy! it actually started to bend a 2 wheeler that was rated for 350 lbs due to its uneven weight & shape.
> 
> 
> Oh yes, I finally found the 27" Console a good home, that had such a good picture I hated to part with it.



That's funny, because I have a Philips 30" HD set that is in my bedroom. Last year I brought up the stairs by myself and on to the top of our dresser in the bedroom. That was not very smart, because my back has not been the same since. I had back problems even before that, so it was dumb on all kinds of levels.


----------



## Inundated

I've got a 32" Toshiba tube set that's still sitting where I had it. I just put the LCD in front of it.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14919389
> 
> 
> I've got a 32" Toshiba tube set that's still sitting where I had it. I just put the LCD in front of it.



Put a piece of plywood on top of it and throw a table cloth over it







.


Seriously though, if you (and anyone else) don't want it anymore, you should get at least a couple hundred bucks for it off Ebay. ...or even Craigslist, which is free to use.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14919818
> 
> 
> Seriously though, if you (and anyone else) don't want it anymore, you should get at least a couple hundred bucks for it off Ebay. ...or even Craigslist, which is free to use.



Only if I can convince someone to schlep here and carry it out from my second floor loft. I don't think I'd get $100 for it, though, as it's an old analog set I paid $399 for a few years ago. I'm assuming analog sets aren't exactly in demand as we approach 2009, though it does have component inputs.


When I get tired of staring at it, then I'll probably do something.


----------



## Smarty-pants

^My bad, was thinking it was an HD CRT set. I gave my old anlog 32" to my sister... she loves it







.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14920062
> 
> 
> Only if I can convince someone to schlep here and carry it out from my second floor loft. I don't think I'd get $100 for it, though, as it's an old analog set I paid $399 for a few years ago. I'm assuming analog sets aren't exactly in demand as we approach 2009, though it does have component inputs.
> 
> 
> When I get tired of staring at it, then I'll probably do something.



I saw 2 console TV's sitting on the tree lawn in my subdivision. They put a sign on them "Free TV". I wonder if they had any takers?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14920341
> 
> 
> I saw 2 console TV's sitting on the tree lawn in my subdivision. They put a sign on them "Free TV". I wonder if they had any takers?



If it's free, and it works, someone is going to take it... wether it's a tv or whatever.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/14918300
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how cable companys treat tru2way rolls. Its the same cable card that needs to be installed in the TV; but now the cable company gets all the benefits of a set top box (PPV, Guide, SDV), without actually having one there. I have a feeling that suddenly all the problems that they had installing cable cards will vanish.



Be careful about what you hear about cablecards; there's an awful lot of misinformation about them out there. Whenever I run across a question about them, I always go straight to CableLabs , the standards body that wrote the specs for cablecards. They have the entire spec available for download, including a snyopsis of what happens when a card is plugged into a host device, all described in exquisite detail. Here you'll find the answers to all of your Tru2Way questions.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14919389
> 
> 
> I've got a 32" Toshiba tube set that's still sitting where I had it. I just put the LCD in front of it.



I don't know if anyone remembers but I gave away my old Sony 32" HD CRT. It weighed 200 lbs.


Inundated, you've got to be single to get away with that!







I still have the step ladder upstairs where the new HDTV is. And it's going to stay there until the HDMI cord arrives! If my wife complains I'll tell her fine, you move it and you bring it back.


----------



## JJkizak

Actually 205 lbs.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14917163
> 
> 
> I don't remember if this was discussed in this thread or in another, but it's likely that your STB isn't fully registered on the network. Can you use any of the PPV/OnDemand features of the box (for PPV can you tune to a PPV channel and get the message that says you can buy the program)?



Well, it gets more bazzar. I can get HBO and Cinemax on Demand, but I can't get Showtime (which I do pay for), Starz, or The Movie Channel on Demand. However I get all their channels.


I don't know, wife says don't do anything but I'm afraid this is going to bite me on the butt sometime. I may call my headend contact.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14920871
> 
> 
> Inundated, you've got to be single to get away with that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still have the step ladder upstairs where the new HDTV is. And it's going to stay there until the HDMI cord arrives! If my wife complains I'll tell her fine, you move it and you bring it back.



Terminally single, as I say. The first step is to get women to stop running away...


No, seriously, my Toshiba isn't even an HD set. It's a standard, 4:3 CRT. You remember it - I was watching downconverted HD programming on it for years, and you kept razzing me about it.


I should be so lucky that someone would come in here and take it away, even for free, assuming I'd feel safe inviting someone into the house...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14921936
> 
> 
> Terminally single, as I say. The first step is to get women to stop running away...



Just when you get to the point of acceptance, that's when something will happen. Just keep that in mind when it does.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14921936
> 
> 
> No, seriously, my Toshiba isn't even an HD set. It's a standard, 4:3 CRT. You remember it - I was watching downconverted HD programming on it for years, and you kept razzing me about it.
> 
> 
> I should be so lucky that someone would come in here and take it away, even for free, assuming I'd feel safe inviting someone into the house...



I don't think Goodwill picks up anymore, but call and see. If not, you can't donate it to some other charity? Nobody will help you at least get in in the car so you can go to Goodwill and drop it off?


And that television sounds like a 200.00 tax write off to me. If you itemize.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I agree on the tax write off. We do the max every year.

I don't know about Goodwill, but Amvets comes by my house every month for a pickup.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14921936
> 
> 
> Terminally single, as I say. The first step is to get women to stop running away...
> 
> 
> No, seriously, my Toshiba isn't even an HD set. It's a standard, 4:3 CRT. You remember it - I was watching downconverted HD programming on it for years, and you kept razzing me about it.
> 
> 
> I should be so lucky that someone would come in here and take it away, even for free, assuming I'd feel safe inviting someone into the house...



As a measure of last resort you can always try http://www.freecycle.org/ 

I've successfully gotten rid of nonworking computers, snow blowers and a 30 year old lawnmower. Two simple rules: giver cannot charge any money, receiver must pick it up.


Of course this involves letting someone in your house. Maybe you'll get a date out of it???










One mans trash is another mans treasure.


----------



## hookbill

Inundated, the part about not wanting somebody coming in your house....I hope that's just because you're a typical slob and not paranoid of people.


I have people come by from Sears, plumbers, people who do my yard, and I'm not afraid to open the door unless they have a bible or baseball bat in their hand.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14920102
> 
> 
> I gave my old anlog 32" to my sister... she loves it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I moved mine to the basement and hooked it up to a Wii. It's perfect for that.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14918669
> 
> 
> That's funny, because I have a Philips 30" HD set that is in my bedroom. Last year I brought up the stairs by myself and on to the top of our dresser in the bedroom. That was not very smart, because my back has not been the same since. I had back problems even before that, so it was dumb on all kinds of levels.



According to the manual the Sony 32 weighs in @ 158#, even with longer arms I could not get a grip on this & if I did I'd probably topple over carrying it.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14920516
> 
> 
> If it's free, and it works, someone is going to take it... wether it's a tv or whatever.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14922316
> 
> 
> Just when you get to the point of acceptance, that's when something will happen. Just keep that in mind when it does.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Goodwill picks up anymore, but call and see. If not, you can't donate it to some other charity? Nobody will help you at least get in in the car so you can go to Goodwill and drop it off?
> 
> 
> And that television sounds like a 200.00 tax write off to me. If you itemize.



Goodwill, Purple Hearts or St Vincent DePaul did not want the console TV, although this console was made in '92, but sold new in '94, had AV in & out & PIP, & cable ready.... like new.


Didn't want to put this on the lawn as I was brought up to run things to the ground or sell them, I sold it for $25, I believe it was a good deal for what he was going to use it for, plus it was lightly used (I got it in '98), it'll probably go another 10 years.


Speaking of which I also have a 1978 black & white, plus a 1984 19" Zenith (Identical to the one used in the Old Spice Commercial) that both work great.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14924299
> 
> 
> Didn't want to put this on the lawn as I was brought up to run things to the ground or sell them, I sold it for $25, I believe it was a good deal for what he was going to use it for, plus it was lightly used (I got it in '98), it'll probably go another 10 years.
> 
> 
> Speaking of which I also have a 1978 black & white, plus a 1984 19" Zenith (Identical to the one used in the Old Spice Commercial) that both work great.



Reminds me of the article in Wall Street Journal the other day about our homes becoming like landfills, since we hate to throw anything away!


----------



## Inundated

I guess I AM a little paranoid, but it's mostly just never getting around to putting up an ad or a Craigslist or eBay listing. I don't think I'd get much for it, and I don't know how much I'd list it for - if I even decided to try to actually sell it.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14920786
> 
> 
> Be careful about what you hear about cablecards; there's an awful lot of misinformation about them out there. Whenever I run across a question about them, I always go straight to CableLabs , the standards body that wrote the specs for cablecards. They have the entire spec available for download, including a snyopsis of what happens when a card is plugged into a host device, all described in exquisite detail. Here you'll find the answers to all of your Tru2Way questions.



Thanks, been following the tru2way info for the last year now. Have re-read all the info on Cablelabs site and many others. My comment is how I think the cable company's song about cable cards will change one tru2way is rolled out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14925220
> 
> 
> I guess I AM a little paranoid, but it's mostly just never getting around to putting up an ad or a Craigslist or eBay listing. I don't think I'd get much for it, and I don't know how much I'd list it for - if I even decided to try to actually sell it.



I'm probably going to trash my 19" next week.


----------



## hookbill

I contacted my headend person today, left a voice mail and when I got home she left me instructions on how to get into the diagnostics and what to do if it wasn't set at a specific number on the On Demand diagnostic screen. The number was correct so I suspect she did something on her end. Also all my other premium channels are gone, which is fine with me.


I found it was interesting that it uses SARA software. Fine, so long as it's not in a DVR.


Also I noticed it has a M card in it and I saw the SDV screen diagnostics. There are about 3 pages of those. I don't know how many pages there was on the cable card but there sure was a whole heck of a lot of those.


I remember some people saying they couldn't get STB's. Anyone still having that problem? Because they had them brand new at the Macedonia office, even peeled the plastic off the front of the display.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14929493
> 
> 
> 
> Also I noticed it has a M card in it and I saw the SDV screen diagnostics. There are about 3 pages of those. I don't know how many pages there was on the cable card but there sure was a whole heck of a lot of those.



So the box you got has a cable card in it? Did it say OCAP on the front time display when you plugged it in?


If it does use cable card, good luck.







Wouldn't want to be you, though







!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14929493
> 
> 
> Also I noticed it has a M card in it and I saw the SDV screen diagnostics. There are about 3 pages of those. I don't know how many pages there was on the cable card but there sure was a whole heck of a lot of those.
> 
> 
> I remember some people saying they couldn't get STB's. Anyone still having that problem? Because they had them brand new at the Macedonia office, even peeled the plastic off the front of the display.



Welcome to the 8300HDC crew fine sir. I'll keep a seat open in the Insane Asylum for you.










And I don't think the problem is getting /A/ box, but getting the RIGHT box. I know around here, the HDC's are coming out their ears. Every tech has a mess of them brand new in the box on their trucks, plenty at the offices, etc..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14929685
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 8300HDC crew fine sir. I'll keep a seat open in the Insane Asylum for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't think the problem is getting /A/ box, but getting the RIGHT box. I know around here, the HDC's are coming out their ears. Every tech has a mess of them brand new in the box on their trucks, plenty at the offices, etc..



No, it's not Navigator software. It's SARA. And it's not a DVR, just an STB.


But I will say this: If SDV works anything at all like On Demand, then it is slow, slow, slow.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14929534
> 
> 
> So the box you got has a cable card in it? Did it say OCAP on the front time display when you plugged it in?
> 
> 
> If it does use cable card, good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't want to be you, though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !



No, it doesn't say OCAP on the front time display and did you miss the part where I said it uses SARA? That means that the M card will work with SARA.


My question is why does a STB use a cable card? If they didn't in the past, why now?


And from what I see there isn't a heck of a lot going on with that cable card. In the DVR world the M card allows you to record or receive multiple channels, but that would be useless in a STB unless that is what is providing the PIP. And I doubt that. Since you can only tune one channel at a time, what's the point?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14929896
> 
> 
> My question is why does a STB use a cable card? If they didn't in the past, why now?
> 
> 
> And from what I see there isn't a heck of a lot going on with that cable card. In the DVR world the M card allows you to record or receive multiple channels, but that would be useless in a STB unless that is what is providing the PIP. And I doubt that. Since you can only tune one channel at a time, what's the point?



Starting last July cable operators weren't supposed to be shipping boxes with built in security, hence cable cards in their own boxes.


Are you sure the cable box doesn't provide a dual tuner PiP?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14929896
> 
> 
> My question is why does a STB use a cable card? If they didn't in the past, why now?



As of last July, the FCC required cable operators to provide boxes with separable security. That means that the box acts like a plain vanilla tuner without any crypto, meaning that a customer can theoretically purchase one at a retail store and use it anywhere in the country as long as they get the appropriate cablecard from their local operator. Once the card has been installed, it's a full-blown 2-way addressable unit.


There are a couple of non-SA CE manufacturers that have announced their own version of an OCAP box. I have yet to see one in a store, but I've heard that Samsung was working on one. And while the MSOs have been complying with the requirements, I don't think the idea has really taken off yet in terms of retail sales, possibly because of all the attention being focused on the DTV transition right now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/14930007
> 
> 
> Are you sure the cable box doesn't provide a dual tuner PiP?



Nope. Don't know how I could tell.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14930143
> 
> 
> As of last July, the FCC required cable operators to provide boxes with separable security. That means that the box acts like a plain vanilla tuner without any crypto, meaning that a customer can theoretically purchase one at a retail store and use it anywhere in the country as long as they get the appropriate cablecard from their local operator. Once the card has been installed, it's a full-blown 2-way addressable unit.
> 
> 
> There are a couple of non-SA CE manufacturers that have announced their own version of an OCAP box. I have yet to see one in a store, but I've heard that Samsung was working on one. And while the MSOs have been complying with the requirements, I don't think the idea has really taken off yet in terms of retail sales, possibly because of all the attention being focused on the DTV transition right now.



That article also mentiioned copy protection, but again why worry about that in an STB? Unless the purpose is to keep you from copying more then once to a DVD. You can run component out from the box to a DVD, and possibly a DVR. At least I think you can.


I'll have to look a bit closer at this.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14924366
> 
> 
> Reminds me of the article in Wall Street Journal the other day about our homes becoming like landfills, since we hate to throw anything away!



& Garages too... sheesh, I have 2 vehicles in need of repair, I just know I'll get only scrap metal price on these in a trade it, & the fact my job can disappear next week don't make matters any better.


I was told by my homeowners association here to scrap my entire basement after the flooding in late July 2006, including a Lathe, 2 cast Iron Table saws, a $1400 washer & dryer pair, & a load of tools that just needed a dryout & oiling... most of this I couldn't remove myself... most of my neighbors did just this, even stuff moved to the lawns for dryout seemed to dissappear by the scrap rummagers.


I still miss that video stabilizer I think went missing because of this










I always find out I need what I get rid of, & what I keep, just collects dust.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14925220
> 
> 
> I guess I AM a little paranoid, but it's mostly just never getting around to putting up an ad or a Craigslist or eBay listing. I don't think I'd get much for it, and I don't know how much I'd list it for - if I even decided to try to actually sell it.



Not to get off the TV topic I put up a Fridge for 20 dollars on CL that was working, no responses, lowered it to 10, still no responses, put it for free, I had 33 responses the first day.... yes, one mans junk is anothers treasure, anyone need any lights or light rope for the holidays??







LOL!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/14933636
> 
> 
> Not to get off the TV topic I put up a Fridge for 20 dollars on CL that was working, no responses, lowered it to 10, still no responses, put it for free, I had 33 responses the first day.... yes, one mans junk is anothers treasure, anyone need any lights or light rope for the holidays??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!



You have to be tricky sometimes to make a buck. The reason you got so many responses on the "free" ad, is because those people only look at the "free" ads, and not the others.

I would have put an ad in the FREE section saying... "$35 or best offer, if someone doesn't want it within 3 days, I'll put it out on the curb."

I bet you would have gotten $20 out of it then.


----------



## hookbill

FWIW I suppose when I get HDMI I could use the Components to go to a DVD? Or will it only work with S Video and composite?


I'm talking about my SA 4250 box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14934529
> 
> 
> FWIW I suppose when I get HDMI I could use the Components to go to a DVD? Or will it only work with S Video and composite?
> 
> 
> I'm talking about my SA 4250 box.



If the DVD player has component outputs, you can connect it to the component input on the TV. If the DVD player only has a S-Video output, then you'll have to use that. When I went HD, everything got an upgrade. My SA cable box is connected using the Component input and the DVD player is connected using the S-Video. I do have two component inputs(actually three if you count the inconvenient ones on the side). But the DVD player only has S Video and composite.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Your dvd player doesn't even have component output







. When the heck did you get it... 1992?... WOW!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14935967
> 
> 
> Your dvd player doesn't even have component output
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . When the heck did you get it... 1992?... WOW!



2000 or 2001. Back when they were really new and really expensive(I think it was over $150). Before DVD players became mainstreamed and now they have crummy, crappy ones at Walmart and Target for $25 around the holidays.


I don't want to replace it because it is good quality(a larger unit compared to the smaller, flimsy ones I've seen now) and it's a name brand(GE) not some unknown Japanese brand.


And they didn't even have DVDs in 1992.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14936106
> 
> 
> 2000 or 2001. Back when they were really new and really expensive(I think it was over $150). Before DVD players became mainstreamed and now they have crummy, crappy ones at Walmart and Target for $25 around the holidays.
> 
> 
> I don't want to replace it because it is good quality(a larger unit compared to the smaller, flimsy ones I've seen now) and it's a name brand(GE) not some unknown Japanese brand.
> 
> 
> And they didn't even have DVDs in 1992.



I know they didn't have dvds in '92, I was just trying to exagerate a bit.










If you have an HD display, you owe it to yourself to get a better player. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money either.

The player you have may be "high quality", but the hardware inside is extremely outdated. Upgrading that player will GREATLY improve the picture quality of your dvds.


Since HDMI is all the craze, and if your display is not HDMI compliant, then you could probably pick up a used high end player for very cheap. Some people paid hundreds for those players just several years ago, and now lust for the new stuff and sell their old stuff for cheap.

Please realize, when I say cheap, I mean $100 or more for a player that may have retailed for like $799.

If that's not your cup of tea, there are still some quality players out there that can be had for less than $100, but then you get what you pay for too... and $100 doesn't buy much now_a_days







.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/14814668
> 
> 
> FWIW Armstrong answered part of my prayer and added FNC-HD over the weekend. All I need is TWC, NHL and CNBC and I'll be all set!



You can check off one more. Armstrong just added NHL-HD.


Still got my fingers crossed for Big 10 one of these days!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14935209
> 
> 
> If the DVD player has component outputs, you can connect it to the component input on the TV. If the DVD player only has a S-Video output, then you'll have to use that. When I went HD, everything got an upgrade. My SA cable box is connected using the Component input and the DVD player is connected using the S-Video. I do have two component inputs(actually three if you count the inconvenient ones on the side). But the DVD player only has S Video and composite.



Thanks, but that wasn't what I was asking.


What I was asking is can hook up the component outputs of the box to the component input of a DVD recorder, while I use the HDMI to go from box to television. I would then use component from DVD back to television.


And Smarty Pants is absolutely right. You don't have to purchase a Blu-Ray player but at least get a DVD that has component and Progressive capability. Also you can tell the DVD that you have a 16x9 screen and DVD's that are capable of being shown on 16x9 without being HD will show on 480P and they look fantastic.


I've never seen a blu-ray and I imagine it is better but I think the pq of 480P on a 16x9 television is fantastic. There is no stretching so it looks almost as good as HD IMHO.


Now if you have to stretch it or watch it in letterbox that takes away from the quality but most DVD's today are set to play on 16x9 format if your DVD player knows you have 16X9 television.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14936211
> 
> 
> You can check off one more. Armstrong just added NHL-HD.
> 
> 
> Still got my fingers crossed for Big 10 one of these days!



And they are adding all this without SDV.


As far as the content they are adding, I'm happy for you but I'm not a hockey fan. And I still don't see the big deal about Big 10, there are a million college games on ESPN and other networks.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14934529
> 
> 
> FWIW I suppose when I get HDMI I could use the Components to go to a DVD? Or will it only work with S Video and composite?
> 
> 
> I'm talking about my SA 4250 box.



Typically an active HDMI connection takes over the whole device and the other outputs (except for digital audio) are turned off. This is not a defect; it's an intentional result of the copyright restrictions on digital outputs. The other outputs remain off until the HDMI connection is removed or otherwise deactivated (some input selectors on TVs deactivate them when not in use).


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14936287
> 
> 
> As far as the content they are adding, I'm happy for you but I'm not a hockey fan. And I still don't see the big deal about Big 10, there are a million college games on ESPN and other networks.



We're all entitled to our wants. Since I grew up in Big 10 country, it would be great to have. I imagine that my feeling toward Big 10 would be kind of like if there was a channel that had nothing but shows about birds in Dodger uniforms for you.










But, you're right. No SDV. And from the sounds of it, I'm glad. Phone, 133 SD channels with most mirrored on QAM, 37 HD channels (excluding the premiums), 2 DVRs, and a 5 Mbps internet pipe for $110 per month -- regular price. I'm not complaining.


And, yes, I like to rub things in now and then.


----------



## paule123

WOW has recently added some new channels to their HD line up:

http://www1.wowway.com/?event=chanline.print&region=CLE 


I think the new adds were FX, Fox News, Nat Geo and 1 or 2 others.


They've also doubled internet speeds for all customers, at no additional charge. My 6/1 plan is now bumped up to 15/2.


Edit: WOW did not add any new channels, I misread the bill I got. They moved these channels to the standard Digital Cable tier.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/14936756
> 
> 
> Typically an active HDMI connection takes over the whole device and the other outputs (except for digital audio) are turned off. This is not a defect; it's an intentional result of the copyright restrictions on digital outputs. The other outputs remain off until the HDMI connection is removed or otherwise deactivated (some input selectors on TVs deactivate them when not in use).



Yes, I kind of thought that was the way it would work. And for exactly the reasons you mention.


Well, I wasn't intending to use a DVD recorder but I have one sitting around right now and it's now sitting on a shelf, only about a year old. It's strictly a recorder/player and it does not have a television tuner in it so I've had no use for it. No place to even run a cable coax cord in it, just component, composite, S Video.


Goes back to what we talking about earlier. Here I got all this stuff and it's sitting on shelves and such.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14937092
> 
> 
> WOW has recently added some new channels to their HD line up:
> 
> http://www1.wowway.com/?event=chanline.print&region=CLE
> 
> 
> I think the new adds were FX, Fox News, Nat Geo and 1 or 2 others.
> 
> 
> They've also doubled internet speeds for all customers, at no additional charge. My 6/1 plan is now bumped up to 15/2.
> 
> 
> Edit: WOW did not add any new channels, I misread the bill I got. They moved these channels to the standard Digital Cable tier.



And they've added a bunch of VOD ch's/services in last few months.









I'm on the lower speed internet pkg so my "bump" was only from 6mbps to 8mbps.


----------



## hookbill

I've been looking for updates from those people who reported receiving letters that TW was going to implement SDV apparently only in some local areas. I just wanted to see how that was working for you, did they actually do it on 10/20, or is this just another TW smoke screen?


I'm also curious in that letter that you received did it say why they were implementing SDV? The reason I ask that is my thinking would be the letter would go out in an attempt to assure people who use HD that they would be getting more bandwith for the use of HD. By doing that it might delay customer decisions to want to stick one of those dishes on their roof.


My only concern about SDV at this point upon seeing the channels they intend to put on there and the fact that eventually the Tuner Resolver will be available for us TiVo owners is how it will work. As I mentioned previously just bringing up On Demand is extremely slow and if this is the same basis of SDV, you probably have to tune in your television about 5 minutes early if you're using a DVR. Now I realize it doesn't take 5 minutes but it doesn't take 30 seconds either. It takes too long.


So how about some reports? Has it been implemented? Is it working if it has been?


Or is it like the people at the Macedonia office seem to think: "SDV, we haven't heard anything about SDV."

















I would not for one minute put it past Time Warner to attempt to launch a campaign based of false promises in an attempt for customer retention, and it's interesting that those letters seemed to be in primarily the old Comcast area.


If TW would simply quit being so cheap we should be having new HD channels now! I think they are treating us like garbage and the nerve they have to charge 5.00 extra for a HD tier that has 3 stations is crazy.


Your turn, nickdawg.


----------



## ErieMarty

coming next week.


Fox Ohio in HD will be added again just in time for Cavs season..


so there !!!...another FREE..hd channel from Time Warner...lol


----------



## Ben Music

Hi Hook,


Even though I received the letter here in NR, the 20th came and went with no SDV. A few days later I spotted a TWC truck doing an install across the street and went over to chat him up. I asked him about new generation dvr box's, new HD channels, and SDV. He didn't seem to know much about anything (no suprise here) but he did say that he heard that SDV had been postponed.


Ben Music


----------



## JJkizak

Last few days 25.1 has been locked in solid OTA, as good as all the big guys.

JJK


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14938960
> 
> 
> Last few days 25.1 has been locked in solid OTA, as good as all the big guys.
> 
> JJK



JJK,


I was very suprised when I discovered that 25-1, 25-2,

25-3, and 25-4 OTA were all coming in loud and clear, all

the way out here in North Ridgeville. When I checked this

morning, 25-1 had on a HD kids show that was as clear as a bell.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14938760
> 
> 
> coming next week.
> 
> 
> Fox Ohio in HD will be added again just in time for Cavs season..
> 
> 
> so there !!!...another FREE..hd channel from Time Warner...lol



Not exactly...It's been on the TW Channel guide for sometime.


It's just going to be active now.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14937337
> 
> 
> Yes, I kind of thought that was the way it would work. And for exactly the reasons you mention.
> 
> 
> Well, I wasn't intending to use a DVD recorder but I have one sitting around right now and it's now sitting on a shelf, only about a year old. It's strictly a recorder/player and it does not have a television tuner in it so I've had no use for it. No place to even run a cable coax cord in it, just component, composite, S Video.
> 
> 
> Goes back to what we talking about earlier. Here I got all this stuff and it's sitting on shelves and such.



Are you sure that the component jacks are *inputs?* Since DVD is an SD format it could not record anytning higher than 480. Most of the DVD recorders I have seen has composite and S-video inputs and component, composite and S-video outputs. Some DVD recorders can output upconverted to higher resolutions but I have yet to see one that takes an HD input.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14939255
> 
> 
> Not exactly...It's been on the TW Channel guide for sometime.
> 
> 
> It's just going to be active now.



And if you really wanna get technical about it, the "FSN Ohio/Cavs HD" channel is basically just the old "HD Bonus" (798) channel moved into the new lineup for us former Adelphia types...and it's the old "Cavaliers HD" channel for legacy TWC types.










They're even using the same character generator they used on "HD Bonus" between events. The only difference now is that there is no Indians overlap, due to STO HD being up, and of course, the Indians season being over anyway.


I still want to know when they're going 24/7 on FSN Ohio HD. I'm assuming that's in the works.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14939481
> 
> 
> Are you sure that the component jacks are *inputs?* Since DVD is an SD format it could not record anytning higher than 480. Most of the DVD recorders I have seen has composite and S-video inputs and component, composite and S-video outputs. Some DVD recorders can output upconverted to higher resolutions but I have yet to see one that takes an HD input.



I hadn't looked at it for a while but you are correct, it has only one sort of input and that is composite.


But what's weird (I think) with this DVD player is it does not have any other input source. It has a coaxial output but no input. It also has an HDMI output.







Why in the world would you need that with just composite.


I don't think I looked very hard at this thing when I bought it, at the time I was using SA DVR and I think my idea was I was going to replace the DVR recorder for the television but instead I got this thing and didn't realize it didn't have a tuner. So I brought it upstairs to use with my old STB and then once I got my HD TiVo I retired it.


I think I recorded maybe 5 dvd's on it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14939748
> 
> 
> I still want to know when they're going 24/7 on FSN Ohio HD. I'm assuming that's in the works.



Of course it is! If you call customer service they will tell you they are in negotiations. Go ahead, give them a call and get back to me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14940448
> 
> 
> Of course it is! If you call customer service they will tell you they are in negotiations. Go ahead, give them a call and get back to me.



No, we already know FSN's regionals will go 24/7...TWC customer service isn't involved here.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14940442
> 
> 
> I hadn't looked at it for a while but you are correct, it has only one sort of input and that is composite.
> 
> 
> But what's weird (I think) with this DVD player is it does not have any other input source. It has a coaxial output but no input. It also has an HDMI output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why in the world would you need that with just composite.
> 
> 
> I don't think I looked very hard at this thing when I bought it, at the time I was using SA DVR and I think my idea was I was going to replace the DVR recorder for the television but instead I got this thing and didn't realize it didn't have a tuner. So I brought it upstairs to use with my old STB and then once I got my HD TiVo I retired it.
> 
> 
> I think I recorded maybe 5 dvd's on it.



Hook, look again. It's got to have more than just a composite input. There has to be a way for it to record the sound. (no audio over composite, just video)

What is the make and model of the unit?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14940586
> 
> 
> Hook, look again. It's got to have more than just a composite input. There has to be a way for it to record the sound. (no audio over composite, just video)
> 
> What is the make and model of the unit?



Well of course it has sound input. I didn't think I had to spell that one out to you.










It has composite and sound. It also has S video in. That's it.


When have you ever seen a composite set up that didn't have audio? You got your yellow for video and red and white for audio.


Ouput has composite (and sound) S video (and sound) component, and HDMI.


I suppose the HDMI is there for high def televisions because it does have a screen setting on it for 16x9, and as pointed out previously component.


Just no tv tuner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14940496
> 
> 
> No, we already know FSN's regionals will go 24/7...TWC customer service isn't involved here.



Customer Service isn't involved with TWC period.










What makes you think that TWC NEO is going to carry it 24/7?


----------



## edjrwinnt

I just spoke with Time Warner retention and there is no news on SDV.


They still only have the 2 for 1 special on movie channels (HBO and Cinemax).


I upgraded to Turbo Internet Access and I'm now getting 6-7 Mega Bits Per Second but I do have a VUDU attached to my network.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14940673
> 
> 
> Well of course it has sound input. I didn't think I had to spell that one out to you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has composite and sound. It also has S video in. That's it.
> 
> 
> When have you ever seen a composite set up that didn't have audio? You got your yellow for video and red and white for audio.
> 
> 
> Ouput has composite (and sound) S video (and sound) component, and HDMI.
> 
> 
> I suppose the HDMI is there for high def televisions because it does have a screen setting on it for 16x9, and as pointed out previously component.
> 
> 
> Just no tv tuner.



Well, I knew that it did have an audio input, just wondered what it was to try and help you out. Of course you know to use the s-vid and not the composite if you can







.

The only reason you'd have an HDMI output (since the input is limited to 480p, and there is no internal tuner) is if the player actually upconverts dvds to 720p/1080i/1080p... because you can not output those resolutions over component (unless you strip the HDCP), and s-vid is limited to 480p.


I think I heard that some of the newer recorders will accept and record an HD signal. Don't hold me to that though, it's been quite a while since I looked at dvd recorders.


----------



## stuart628

anyone else have really crappy sound coming out of their sub when watching ABC? I have ABC through Directv and my Subwoofer when people talk sound really really bad....so far only on ABC that I can tell, and I am hoping its a ABC thing and not a SubWoofer going bad thing


----------



## dponeill

I had the same problem the other day with ABC on TWC.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/14941022
> 
> 
> anyone else have really crappy sound coming out of their sub when watching ABC? I have ABC through Directv and my Subwoofer when people talk sound really really bad....so far only on ABC that I can tell, and I am hoping its a ABC thing and not a SubWoofer going bad thing



I have noticed this recently too. I hear it OTA and via TWC. It sounds like a low frequency over compressed pop only audible in the sub-woofer. Very annoying.


Ray


----------



## stuart628

yeah I actually unplugged my Sub when playing back Pusing Daisies....it got annoying quick, and I just flipped to some football it was there again, so I turned on the perfect storm on HBO and it sounded great.


----------



## Rbuchina

WEWS


Here are three consecutive posts about a sound problem. Does your engineer wear a hearing aid?


Ray


----------



## Smarty-pants

I hope it doesn't screw up the game tonight














.


----------



## stuart628

I will just unplug my Sub again, I mean really there isnt alot of lows other then voice which come through, but the gentle hum of a sub really adds to a game, of course right now, the nasty pop/buzz of my sub is killing me right now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/14941104
> 
> 
> WEWS
> 
> 
> Here are three consecutive posts about a sound problem. Does your engineer wear a hearing aid?
> 
> 
> Ray



Just to play devils advocate, because I really don't care about the game tonight how do you know this is WEWS problem? It could be a network issue.


And since it's Saturday I got a feeling that WEWS engineer probably is a. not at the studio and b. doesn't even look at this forum.


How about posing the question of the woofer over on this thread since it concerns broadcast of the ABC games today?


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14941198
> 
> 
> Just to play devils advocate, because I really don't care about the game tonight how do you know this is WEWS problem? It could be a network issue.
> 
> 
> And since it's Saturday I got a feeling that WEWS engineer probably is a. not at the studio and b. doesn't even look at this forum.
> 
> 
> How about posing the question of the woofer over on this thread since it concerns broadcast of the ABC games today?



Well its the only channel I have heard it on, and its been going on all week.


just checked again, checked channel 19 and it sounded great, back to channel 5 and there it is (dont really know how to describe it.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/14941223
> 
> 
> Well its the only channel I have heard it on, and its been going on all week.
> 
> 
> just checked again, checked channel 19 and it sounded great, back to channel 5 and there it is (dont really know how to describe it.)



Heh heh. Just out of curiosity I got up to put the television on WEWS and I didn't realize it but it already is on WEWS. It almost sounds like wind blowing, that's how I would describe it.


But interestingly enough I don't hear it on the commercials. And the commercials appear to be local, so I suspect the network.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14940683
> 
> 
> Customer Service isn't involved with TWC period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that TWC NEO is going to carry it 24/7?



I just now realized that they don't actually have even that placeholder channel they used to have at 436. It's totally off the guide.


I have no idea. Screw 'em.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14938745
> 
> 
> I've been looking for updates from those people who reported receiving letters that TW was going to implement SDV apparently only in some local areas. I just wanted to see how that was working for you, did they actually do it on 10/20, or is this just another TW smoke screen?



I was able to tune in HBO-West on my Tivo earlier today, and this is one of the channels that was supposed to be moved to SDV on 10/20. It seems this hasn't happened yet. (Been out of town the past week, so I'm catching up....)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14938745
> 
> 
> I'm also curious in that letter that you received did it say why they were implementing SDV? The reason I ask that is my thinking would be the letter would go out in an attempt to assure people who use HD that they would be getting more bandwith for the use of HD. By doing that it might delay customer decisions to want to stick one of those dishes on their roof.



"SDV is a particularly exciting bandwidth-management breakthrough that makes it possible for us to offer many additional services. SDV allows us to provide these additional services, while at the same time continuing to offer existing services, because channels delivered using SDV are transmitted over the cable system only on an as-needed basis. As a result, SDV uses system capacity more efficiently than the traditional, always-on method."


----------



## hookbill




mnowlin said:


> I was able to tune in HBO-West on my Tivo earlier today, and this is one of the channels that was supposed to be moved to SDV on 10/20. It seems this hasn't happened yet. (Been out of town the past week, so I'm catching up....)[/quit]
> 
> 
> Thanks. Not surprising, as I said before TW never does anything when they say they will.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/14943568
> 
> 
> "SDV is a particularly exciting bandwidth-management breakthrough that makes it possible for us to offer many additional services. SDV allows us to provide these additional services, while at the same time continuing to offer existing services, because channels delivered using SDV are transmitted over the cable system only on an as-needed basis. As a result, SDV uses system capacity more efficiently than the traditional, always-on method."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again thanks for taking the time and trouble to print that out word for word.
> 
> 
> Now if you were your average cable user who didn't talk in forums and fully understand what SDV is would this mean anything to you? Think about it. Most people are not as up to date on these matters as we are. I would probably read this and start hearing the "Charlie Brown" noise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wah, wah, wha, wha,.........
> 
> 
> Probably what the OTA people think if they get this far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really baffles me why they would send out letters to only a certain segment of the TW area and not even inform their own employees about the possibility of the word spreading around.
> 
> 
> It will get here eventually, no doubt. But it's still not an excuse for them not to be adding HD channels right now.
> 
> 
> Just my opinion. YMMV
Click to expand...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14929886
> 
> 
> No, it's not Navigator software. It's SARA. And it's not a DVR, just an STB.
> 
> 
> But I will say this: If SDV works anything at all like On Demand, then it is slow, slow, slow.



If you don't mind me asking, exactly what model STB DO you have at this point? I was only aware of one cablecard box (should be suffixed with HDC afaik. May be wrong.) and that is the 8300HDC.


EDIT: Nvm. I see SA finally updated their website recently and have the 4250's in HDC form. Joooooooys. Another performance lousy box to deal with.


And yes, others have confirmed just what I stated earlier on. The FCC put in that regulation requiring cable companies to buy NEW boxes (when they needed to, not on the FCC's command.) with the separated crypto functions meaning it's sent out to the cablecard slot instead of using an internal chip to do it. WHY they are doing this when you can't even buy the SA STB's as a consumer, I have no friggin' idea. All customer available 'cable devices', be it tv's, dvr's, whathaveyou, already have some form of cablecard interface to begin with (mind you, current tv's do not. But tru2way coming will bring them back. And if you are really hard up for it, you can get a set a few generations back with a cablecard interface).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14944254
> 
> 
> EDIT: Nvm. I see SA finally updated their website recently and have the 4250's in HDC form. Joooooooys. *Another performance lousy box to deal with*.



Dead wrong there. This STB works just fine. And I if you look back at my post you will see I put the model number in the title.


I think comparing the 4250 with the SA 8300 HDC is totally off base. Again it uses SARA, not Navigator software. You can simply punch in a channel with the key pad on the remote and get there. As I understand it with Navigator you have to use the guide.


Really the only difference I see in this STB and the old one is that it does have a cable card in it and it has an HDMI output that's active. And the HDMI output is a plus.


This is a nice STB, it seems to deliver a good quality analog picture as well. All this and the SARA software I knocked so frequently. But then again it is not a DVR.







Perhaps SARA works better in STB's then DVR's.


----------



## hookbill

The last time I came in here and started ripping the Browns for interferring with the NLCS, they beat the World Champion Giants much to my amazement! I kept my mouth shut last week and look what happened.


So I'll try it again.


Thanks, CBS for putting the Brownies on at 4:00 pm instead of having them at 1:00 pm. Since you don't have the double header that means that this big bunch of losers are going to make all my HD shows on CBS record in SD while taking up the same amount of space as a regular HD show!


This I have to put up with while we count the penalties and watch DA take 3 quarters before he gets his arm warmed up. Then when he does hit his mark Edwards will drop it. And not to mention that big mouth KW2 has been benched.


Let's see how have the Titans been playing. Why it appears they have been fantastic. 6 wins, no losses. Whoops I mean 7 wins, might as well say it now and get it over with.


And now that Brady Quinn has shown his support for John McCain, is there any question as to why his head coach doesn't play him? I mean do you think Romeo will vote for McCain?


OK, that's about as hard as I can rip them. I am serious about not watching my shows in HD.










And before someone ask, yes I can cancel the recordings and put in on TW converted digital







instead but at least I can still get Dolby 5.1 sound.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14941198
> 
> 
> Just to play devils advocate, because I really don't care about the game tonight how do you know this is WEWS problem? It could be a network issue.
> 
> 
> And since it's Saturday I got a feeling that WEWS engineer probably is a. not at the studio and b. doesn't even look at this forum.
> 
> 
> How about posing the question of the woofer over on this thread since it concerns broadcast of the ABC games today?



You are right, it could be a network issue too. I'm Sorry. I thought this was a thread for discussing local reception issues. EXCUUUSE MEEEE!


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/14945250
> 
> 
> You are right, it could be a network issue too. I'm Sorry. I thought this was a thread for discussing local reception issues. EXCUUUSE MEEEE!
> 
> 
> Ray



You mistook what I was trying to say. I didn't mean it like "take your silly little problem over to this thread." I was actually trying to be helpfull by suggesting if you posted over there to see if anyone else was having problems as well.


I apologize if you thought I meant it in a rude way. That was not my intent.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14945238
> 
> 
> OK, that's about as hard as I can rip them. I am serious about not watching my shows in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And before someone ask, yes I can cancel the recordings and put in on TW converted digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> instead but at least I can still get Dolby 5.1 sound.



I'm not sure you can blame CBS here. Aren't the regular schedules set up by the NFL? CBS pretty much has to air them as scheduled.


NBC has the "flexible" Sunday night scheduling later in the season, but I think that's basically the only time any network has input into this.


Go ahead and blame WOIO for not having HD recording equipment to delay the shows in HD. That's easy enough to do, since it's WOIO we're talking about here.


This isn't a big deal to me, as the only way it affects me is having to add an hour padding to my recording of "The Amazing Race" - which is not in HD, anyway.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Here is the Time Warner request form for the SDV Tuning Adapter for TiVo:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...order_sdv.html


----------



## Inundated

OK, before I start screaming at TWC...


Does anyone in the former Adelphia area, with HD service, have 436 ("Cavaliers HD")?


Since we talked about it here, I went to the guide on my SA8000HD, and there is indeed no placeholder for 436. (I know it was there when they first merged the lineups.)


I contacted TWC CS via their website, and we've been E-Mailing back and forth. They suggested a box reboot, which I did, and no 436. Their next move was to automatically schedule a technician visit for Monday, which I have to reschedule. (How in the world could a truck roll fix this, anyway?)


So, I'm wondering if any ex-Adelphia types have 436 in the HD lineup, even if it's just blank with a display screen right now.


If no one in the ex-Adelphia area has 436 right now, I'll E-Mail them back and tell 'em not to waste their time trying to solve it with me, alone. (I believe the "legacy" TWC folks out of Akron have it.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14945984
> 
> 
> Here is the Time Warner request form for the SDV Tuning Adapter for TiVo:
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...order_sdv.html



Thank You very much!!!!!!










They should have had quantity needed however on the form.


----------



## hookbill

How come nobody called me out on Browns not playing the Titans. They are playing Jacksonville!


Oh well, right now they are winning. I just missed by a couple of states or so.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14946010
> 
> 
> OK, before I start screaming at TWC...
> 
> 
> Does anyone in the former Adelphia area, with HD service, have 436 ("Cavaliers HD")?
> 
> 
> Since we talked about it here, I went to the guide on my SA8000HD, and there is indeed no placeholder for 436. (I know it was there when they first merged the lineups.)
> 
> 
> I contacted TWC CS via their website, and we've been E-Mailing back and forth. They suggested a box reboot, which I did, and no 436. Their next move was to automatically schedule a technician visit for Monday, which I have to reschedule. (How in the world could a truck roll fix this, anyway?)
> 
> 
> So, I'm wondering if any ex-Adelphia types have 436 in the HD lineup, even if it's just blank with a display screen right now.
> 
> 
> If no one in the ex-Adelphia area has 436 right now, I'll E-Mail them back and tell 'em not to waste their time trying to solve it with me, alone. (I believe the "legacy" TWC folks out of Akron have it.)



No, it's not there. I looked on my TiVo guide and it has 436 listed as "local sports" same as 437. But the guide on the 4250 doesn't have it at all.


Screwed you again, didn't they?


----------



## ted_b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14945514
> 
> 
> You mistook what I was trying to say. I didn't mean it like "take your silly little problem over to this thread." I was actually trying to be helpfull by suggesting if you posted over there to see if anyone else was having problems as well.
> 
> 
> I apologize if you thought I meant it in a rude way. That was not my intent.



Well nowhere on the national thread did they mention it. But i agree that it was somewhere between ABC and WEWS-DT cuz local ad spots weren't affected but national ones were. Then why did no one else nationally complain. Hmm.


Yes, it sounded like a compression artifact, but only under 80hz or so. It was VERY annoying; I turned down the sub channel trim and had to remember to reset it.


Nice Browns win....what a Jekyll/Hyde team.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14946347
> 
> 
> No, it's not there. I looked on my TiVo guide and it has 436 listed as "local sports" same as 437. But the guide on the 4250 doesn't have it at all.



That's what I thought. I did manage to cancel the visit tomorrow, though with my luck, I'll be waist high in packing and they'll show up anyway. What in the world would a tech do? Replace my box?


Nope, if you're not getting it on your 4250, that means it hasn't been turned on here in former Adelphia-land yet. Someone in the Erie thread said they have 436, but they're in on the city system, which I'm pretty sure is the legacy TWC system.


I'm actually kind of impressed with the E-Mail customer service, though I'm wondering if it's done here...or if it's not outsourced, by people here with a tortured writing style.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14946316
> 
> 
> How come nobody called me out on Browns not playing the Titans. They are playing Jacksonville!



I saw that, but thought you also followed the Titans for some reason. Everything south of Cincinnati kinda runs together for me, anyway.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14946310
> 
> 
> They should have had quantity needed however on the form.



I just filled out the form, but I have this feeling that it was something whipped together to address some complaints and the data may never see the light of day... The form looked like a "proof of concept" thing that I would throw together in about five minutes.


Time will tell...


----------



## burgher

I know this has been covered elsewhere in the 500+ pages of this forum (I'm too lazy to look it up) but could the OTA crowd please advise me on whether or not we'll still have a digital local broadcasting in the VHF range after the February conversion date in '09?


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14946010
> 
> 
> OK, before I start screaming at TWC...
> 
> 
> Does anyone in the former Adelphia area, with HD service, have 436 ("Cavaliers HD")?



Fox Sports HD (436) had been off the guide for a couple months I think, but it just showed up again Saturday night in this area.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/14948688
> 
> 
> I know this has been covered elsewhere in the 500+ pages of this forum (I'm too lazy to look it up) but could the OTA crowd please advise me on whether or not we'll still have a digital local broadcasting in the VHF range after the February conversion date in '09?



I think 19 WOIO stays on VHF and 8 WJW is moving to VHF.


But then, at my age, my mind is as unreliable as my WVIZ reception.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14945238
> 
> 
> Thanks, CBS for putting the Brownies on at 4:00 pm instead of having them at 1:00 pm. Since you don't have the double header that means that this big bunch of losers are going to make all my HD shows on CBS record in SD while taking up the same amount of space as a regular HD show!
> 
> 
> I am serious about not watching my shows in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And before someone ask, yes I can cancel the recordings and put in on TW converted digital
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> instead but at least I can still get Dolby 5.1 sound.



Hook, yesterday they were delayed only 5 minutes and they were on in HD. In fact, this season, all the CBS delayed shows on Sunday have been in HD... even 60 minutes. I usually try to record Cold Case and The Unit and I use the "clock" on 60 minutes to tell me how much to delay the recording times.... The ones I remembered to record have all been in HD, even the half-hour delay of last week....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/14948999
> 
> 
> Hook, yesterday they were delayed only 5 minutes and they were on in HD. In fact, this season, all the CBS delayed shows on Sunday have been in HD... even 60 minutes. I usually try to record Cold Case and The Unit and I use the "clock" on 60 minutes to tell me how much to delay the recording times.... The ones I remembered to record have all been in HD, even the half-hour delay of last week....



Yep, I checked at 7:05 and 60 minutes was just starting up, and it was in HD so I figured they would be. I added 5 minutes on to The Unit, that should cover it.


In regards to every show being in HD this season I think that was more luck then anything else. A couple of times the Browns either had a bye, Monday Night Football, or the double header was on Fox and didn't affect CBS because the Browns because they were on FOX.


I just sat down to mention that, you beat me to the punch.









And didn't they have one Sunday Night Football game?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14948889
> 
> 
> I think 19 WOIO stays on VHF and 8 WJW is moving to VHF.
> 
> 
> But then, at my age, my mind is as unreliable as my WVIZ reception.



No, you are correct...WJW moves to VHF 8 digital at the transition, and WOIO will stay on VHF 10, with a slight power upgrade after the transition.


In regards to CBS' Sunday night schedule...I think it's mostly controlled at the network level in regards to the late game ends, not locally like I mentioned before. The problem may not be WOIO delaying, but CBS not delaying the feed in HD.


I'm guessing this only happens when there are more than a certain number of games, if CBS was indeed in HD for prime time on Sunday. (As mentioned, the show I watch isn't in HD, so I didn't notice it, but I did catch the last few minutes of "60 Minutes" and now remember it was HD...)


----------



## rlb

I have another issue regarding last night's CBS programming here in Cleveland. I noticed that "The Unit" was not in Dolby Digital 5.1 (my pre/pro had shifted from DD and was using Neural THX (I use it for two channel instead of DPL IIx)). I checked further on the pre/pro and confirmed I was receiving only FR and FL audio. I was using OTA; but checked and confirmed that the D* MPEG4 feed was the same. I didn't have any DD issues on other channels.


Is anyone else aware of WOIO have DD issues. It took them so long to implement DD, I sure hope any issue is of a short duration.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Anyone else notice that on Saturdays FOX-8 News is in 4X3 instead of 16X9? I wonder why? Is it possible that the master controll staff that works on Saturdays doesn't know how to switch to HD?


I hope someone from the station reads this. It really looks bad to run "FOX-8 News in HD" on the graphics and not actually be in HD. It also looks bad when they show a 4 X 3 clip because I can see a small portion of the side bars.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14950769
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that on Saturdays FOX-8 News is in 4X3 instead of 16X9? I wonder why? Is it possible that the master controll staff that works on Saturdays doesn't know how to switch to HD?
> 
> 
> I hope someone from the station reads this. It really looks bad to run "FOX-8 News in HD" on the graphics and not actually be in HD. It also looks bad when they show a 4 X 3 clip because I can see a small portion of the side bars.



I would be that's just temporary. Maybe they were working on something.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/14949785
> 
> 
> I have another issue regarding last night's CBS programming here in Cleveland. I noticed that "The Unit" was not in Dolby Digital 5.1 (my pre/pro had shifted from DD and was using Neural THX (I use it for two channel instead of DPL IIx)). I checked further on the pre/pro and confirmed I was receiving only FR and FL audio. I was using OTA; but checked and confirmed that the D* MPEG4 feed was the same. I didn't have any DD issues on other channels.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else aware of WOIO have DD issues. It took them so long to implement DD, I sure hope any issue is of a short duration.



It will take me about two weeks for me to answer that.







I'm a bit behind on my viewing. But thanks for the heads up. I hope everyone else was on Dolby 5.1.


Speaking of Dolby 5.1, I've sent an email to the CW main email line about no rear speakers. I told them that I downloaded one from another station and it seems to be a WBNX problem. I also made sure that I told them I had destroyed the copy and not distributed it.


I also left the head engineer a voice mail. We will see if I get a response.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14951363
> 
> 
> I would be that's just temporary. Maybe they were working on something.



If it's temporary, why do I see it so often? It seems to happen every time I get to watch a Saturday FOX 8 newscast. I have seen it now on both the 1/2 hour 6:00 PM newscast as well as the 10 PM hour-long newscast (yes I realize there have been sports preemptions). The point is, from my observation, if it's a Saturday the news is SD.


If they are "working on something" why don't they do the work during the times the program is off the air? It's my impression as a viewer that their Saturday technical staff does not know how to switch the HD on or that they are not permitted by the "regular crew" to switch the HD on. In either case it looks bad for them to promote themselves as the first news in HD while in 4X3.


BTW: this observation began while they were still a FOX O&O and continues now that the station has been sold.


EDIT: I just posted this question on FOX-8's "Sound Off". We'll see what happens.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14952258
> 
> 
> If it's temporary, why do I see it so often? It seems to happen every time I get to watch a Saturday FOX 8 newscast. I have seen it now on both the 1/2 hour 6:00 PM newscast as well as the 10 PM hour-long newscast (yes I realize there have been sports preemptions). The point is, from my observation, if it's a Saturday the news is SD.
> 
> 
> If they are "working on something" why don't they do the work during the times the program is off the air? It's my impression as a viewer that their Saturday technical staff does not know how to switch the HD on or that they are not permitted by the "regular crew" to switch the HD on. In either case it looks bad for them to promote themselves as the first news in HD while in 4X3.
> 
> 
> BTW: this observation began while they were still a FOX O&O and continues now that the station has been sold.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I just posted this question on FOX-8's "Sound Off". We'll see what happens.



You know when you posted that something went off in the back of my mind, "Did I see that a while back?"


Seems dumb, but they got new owners now, you know?


----------



## ClevelandRob

Thank god I'm not the only one with the WEWS LFE problems... I first noticed it on Saturday during the Buckeyes game. Then again tonight while my wife watched Desperate Housewives... I don't know if it is fixed yet, but it was a problem as of 10pm Sunday night. I almost yelled at her for blowing the sub! I don't see how this can be going on for this many days without them fixing it... Do they not even know??? It's definitely a local problem as it was there on my Dish, Stuarts DirecTV, TWC and OTA...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevelandRob* /forum/post/14954656
> 
> 
> Thank god I'm not the only one with the WEWS LFE problems... I first noticed it on Saturday during the Buckeyes game. Then again tonight while my wife watched Desperate Housewives... I don't know if it is fixed yet, but it was a problem as of 10pm Sunday night. I almost yelled at her for blowing the sub! I don't see how this can be going on for this many days without them fixing it... Do they not even know??? It's definitely a local problem as it was there on my Dish, Stuarts DirecTV, TWC and OTA...



I don't know why you are so certain it's a local problem. Probably it is but I know when I was watching during the commercials on Saturday that were local the problem was not there. And every show described is a network show.


But let's say it is a local problem. Or even if it isn't what can you do? I'm more upset about CW and no sound from the rear speakers and I've called, emailed, and so far have got nothing.


Maybe WEWS will be more responsive. Call them, it's not hard to find the number and tell them. Email them. Heck, email ABC or Scripts Broadcasting.


I'm sure they are aware because they do have sound engineers.


Fortunately for me since I'm about a week and a half behind on viewing I haven't ran into this problem yet. But if I do, I'll change my sound to Dolby to PCM and then run my amp at Dolby II Movie to get around it.


And that's something you can do to get around it yourselves. I know TW's box let's you do it, I'm not sure about the Sats. or OTA. TiVo also allows this.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14955879
> 
> 
> ......... But if I do, I'll change my sound to Dolby to PCM and then run my amp at Dolby II Movie to get around it.
> 
> 
> And that's something you can do to get around it yourselves. I know TW's box let's you do it, I'm not sure about the Sats. or OTA. TiVo also allows this.



Yes, any 2 ch audio can be "matrixed" into Dolby PL or PLII from any source, assuming you are inputting that audio into a DD capable box (usually done through an AVR).


----------



## hookbill

When I lived in Northern Kentucky around the 4th of July we had a wind storm come through and it knocked out power. It was very hot and no a/c.


This happened about 10:00 pm. By the next morning power was still out. Neighbors were out complaining about it. Finally around 12:00 noon I call Cinergy.


Well, it seems that nobody reported it! so we had a certain area without power simply because no one bothered to call in and notify them.


Within 2 hours a crew was there and power restored.


My point is if you don't tell them, don't assume they know.


I just got this response from WBNX:


Hi HOOK,

Thank you for your feedback. I spoke with our engineering department concerning Dolby 5.1 and they are checking into what the problem may be. *Again thank you for bringing it to our attention and I will email you as soon as I have more information.*

Thank you for watching WBNX, The CW.


Now I would assume that sound engineers would be aware, and maybe they are but if no one complains, it doesn't get fixed. And if I'm the only one complaining I doubt it will get fixed despite this message.


So I'll make you guys a deal: I'll complain to WEWS if you complain about WBNX.


Maybe we can get the problem resolved.


----------



## stuart628

Hey Hook when that new tivo comes out on Directv, would you consider switching again? I know you had Line of Site problems before, but they are using smaller dishes that would be easier to get some sats as it only neeeds 3 Lnbs and not the 5. I ask becuase I talked to you about getting the tivo series 3 and staying with cable, but I now have 3 tivos in my house with Directv and cant wait for the new Directivo to be released next year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/14958448
> 
> 
> Hey Hook when that new tivo comes out on Directv, would you consider switching again? I know you had Line of Site problems before, but they are using smaller dishes that would be easier to get some sats as it only neeeds 3 Lnbs and not the 5. I ask becuase I talked to you about getting the tivo series 3 and staying with cable, but I now have 3 tivos in my house with Directv and cant wait for the new Directivo to be released next year.



I still think I would have a line of site problem, in addition I don't know what features they will offer with the new D-TiVo.


Plus I have a lifetime sub for my HD TiVo.


----------



## smoti17

I filled in the form requesting an SDV adapter that was posted here the other day (thanks !). It is interesting that it's the same form that was available for zipcodes in other TWC areas, but for NE OH until a few days the URL posted just redirected you to the generic TWCNEO home page. Anyway, I just got an acknowledgement e-mail back from "D. Jacobs, Corporate Tuning Adapter Desk", acknowledging my request, saying it is not available to the public yet, and that they will get back to me when a release date has been set.


So at least we are on the radar.


Since various updates my TiVo HD has been working pretty well now, and I was on the point of ditching my mostly not used SA 3250HD box, though I'm now a bit nervous of doing this until the whole SDV thing is sorted. I'm not seeing any evidence of SDV being live in my area so far (ex-Adelphia, "Cleveland Suburbs 2").


The idea that SDV is needed for "more bandwidth" is of course complete rubbish - they could add loads more digital/HD channels if they would stop burning capacity on 80+ analog channels. I'm getting very annoyed by the "now available in HD" banners I see on the SciFi and Weather channels when I still have to watch in wobbly analog :-(


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/14959541
> 
> 
> I filled in the form requesting an SDV adapter that was posted here the other day (thanks !). It is interesting that it's the same form that was available for zipcodes in other TWC areas, but for NE OH until a few days the URL posted just redirected you to the generic TWCNEO home page. Anyway, I just got an acknowledgement e-mail back from "D. Jacobs, Corporate Tuning Adapter Desk", acknowledging my request, saying it is not available to the public yet, and that they will get back to me when a release date has been set.
> 
> 
> So at least we are on the radar.



Yes, I got one too. Notice the part where they say they are still "testing it to make sure it meets quality standards?" It's been tested for a couple of months now.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/14959541
> 
> 
> Since various updates my TiVo HD has been working pretty well now, and I was on the point of ditching my mostly not used SA 3250HD box, though I'm now a bit nervous of doing this until the whole SDV thing is sorted. I'm not seeing any evidence of SDV being live in my area so far (ex-Adelphia, "Cleveland Suburbs 2").



The idea that SDV is needed for "more bandwidth" is of course complete rubbish - they could add loads more digital/HD channels if they would stop burning capacity on 80+ analog channels. I'm getting very annoyed by the "now available in HD" banners I see on the SciFi and Weather channels when I still have to watch in wobbly analog :-([/quote]


Heh Heh....Well, let me tell you you're in for a long period of aggrivation.


They do need more bandwith for additional HD, but that doesn't mean they couldn't if they wanted to even now add another 2 or 3 HD channels. The only reason they haven't is because they are CHEAP.

TW Austin has been full blown SDV for some time. They have about 50 HD channels and many of those are for premium channels.


CableCard Viewable High Definition Basic Digital Tier Standard Premium Mas Canales MOD & Pay-Per-View Sports Package Digital Free On Demand HDTV Tier Movie Pak Sports Pak


No. Category Channel Name No. Category Channel Name


1 New Channel Lineup Information 40 TV Land

2 KTBC FOX 41 NICK

3 KVUE ABC 42 The Disney Channel

5 KEYE CBS 43 Cartoon Network

6 City Of Austin Access 45 The Weather Channel

7 TV Guide Channel 46 CNN

8 News 8 Austin 47 Headline News

9 KLRU PBS 48 Fox News Channel

10 - 11 Public Access 49 MSNBC

12 KNVA-CW 50 CNBC: Consumer News & Business Channel

13 KAKW 52 ESPN

14 KADF Azteca America 53 ESPN-2

15 ME- Television 54 Fox Sports Southwest

16 Public Access 55 The Golf Channel

17 Travis County Access 56 Lifetime Movie Network

18 C-SPAN 57 truTV

19 ACC Access 58 Sci Fi Channel

20 KLRU-2 59 Comedy Central

21 WGN 60 A&E

22 AISD Access 61 The History Channel

24 QVC: Quality Value Convenience Network 62 Bravo

25 Home Shopping Network 63 AMC

26 Lifetime Television 64 TCM: Turner Classic Movies

27 Oxygen 65 TBS

28 WE: Women's Entertainment Network 66 USA Network

29 SoapNet 67 TNT: Turner Network Television

30 E! Entertainment Television 68 FX

31 HGTV: Home & Garden Television 69 Spike TV

32 Food Network 70 CMT: Country Music Television

33 Travel Channel 71 VH1

34 The Discovery Channel 72 MTV: Music Television

35 TLC: The Learning Channel 73 BET: Black Entertainment Television

36 Animal Planet 74 Style

37 ABC Family Channel 75 Telemundo Network

38 ION 76 Galavision

39 Hallmark Channel 77 TWC Local Programming

101 The Disney Channel


No. Category Channel Name No. Category Channel Name


102 Disney West 290 Gospel Music Channel

103 Toon Disney 291 TBN

110 Cartoon Network 292 Inspirational Network

111 Boomerang 293 Inspirational Life Television

120 Nickelodeon 294 Daystar

121 Nick Too 295 The Word Network

122 The N 297 EWTN: Eternal Word TV Network

125 Nick Toons 308 News 8 Austin

140 Discovery Kids 310 CNN

150 Noggin 312 CNN Headline News

160 ABC Family Channel 315 Fox News Channel

170 ION Television 320 MSNBC

180 Hallmark Channel 324 TXCN

201 HGTV: Home & Garden Television 341 current TV

203 Planet Green 348 News 8 Traffic Now

204 Fine Living Network 350 The Weather Channel

205 TLC: The Learning Channel 355 News 8 RadarNow

207 DIY







o it Yourself Network 358 News 8 Non-Stop Weather

209 Food Network 359 News 8 Non-Stop Weather en Espanol

210 Lifetime Television 360 CNBC

211 Lifetime Real Women 361 CNBC World

213 WE: Women's Entertainment Network 363 Fox Business Network

215 Oxygen 368 Bloomberg TV

217 SoapNet 380 C-SPAN

219 Style 381 C-SPAN 2

220 FIT TV 382 C-SPAN 3

225 Discovery Health Channel 408 News 8 Non-Stop Sports

230 The Discovery Channel 410 ESPN

232 National Geographic Channel 411 ESPN-2

234 Animal Planet 419 ESPN News

236 Military Channel 420 ESPN Classic

237 The Science Channel 424 Big Ten Network

239 G4 430 Fox Sports Net Southwest

240 A&E: Arts & Entertainment 431 Fox College Sports Atlantic

243 The Biography Channel 432 Fox College Sports Central

246 The History Channel 433 Fox College Sports Pacific

248 History International (Spanish) 434 Fuel

250 Investigation Discovery 435 NBA TV

255 KLRU-2 436 ESPNU

258 Travel Channel 438 CBS College Sports Network

260 Bravo 440 Fox Soccer Channel

261 LOGO 450 The Golf Channel

262 Ovation 455 The Tennis Channel

266 SLEUTH 460 Speed Channel

268 BBC America 470 VS.

270 QVC: Quality Value Convenience Network 471 Versus/Golf Channel HD

273 HSN: Home Shopping Network 490 Outdoor Channel

274 TV Superstore 501 TBS Superstation

275 Shop NBC 504 USA

276 Cornerstore 510 TNT

277 Gems TV 515 FX

278 Shop Latino 518 Spike TV

284 Jewelry Channel 520 TV Land

288 TWC 77 525 GSN


No. Category Channel Name No. Category Channel Name


527 Fox Reality 709 HBO 2 West

530 Comedy Central 710 HBO Signature West

535 Sci Fi 711 HBO Family West

540 truTV 712 HBO Comedy West

545 E! 713 HBO Zone West

550 AMC 714 HBO Latino West

555 TCM 715 Cinemax

565 Lifetime Movie Network 716 More Max

570 MTV 717 Action Max

571 MTV2 718 Thriller Max

575 Fuse 719 W Max

577 ME-Television 720 @ Max

578 VH-1 721 Outer Max

582 VH1 Classic 722 Five Star Max

585 BET 723 Cinemax West

590 CMT 724 More Max West

595 GAC 725 ActionMAX - West

601 CNN en Espanol 726 ThrillerMAX West

602 Canal 24 Horas 730 Showtime

604 DocuTVE 731 Showtime Too

606 Canal Sur 732 Showcase

609 News 8's Non-Stop Weather en Espanol 733 Showtime Extreme

611 Toon Disney En Espanol 734 Showtime Beyond

612 Cartoon Network SAP 735 Showtime Next

613 Boomerang Espanol 736 Showtime Women

614 Sorpresa - TV / Canal 737 Showtime Family Zone

616 Shop Latino 746 TMC

617 Fox Sports en Espanol 747 TMC Xtra

618 ESPN Deportes 750 Starz!

619 FSN Astros Espanol 751 Starz! Edge

620 GOL TV Spanish 752 Starz InBlack

621 History en Espanol 753 Starz! Kids and Family

622 Galavision 754 Starz! Cinema

623 Telemundo 760 Encore

626 TVE Internacional - TV / Canal 761 Encore West

629 La Familia Cosmovision 762 Encore Love

630 SÃ* TV 763 Encore Drama

632 Infinito - TV / Canal 764 Encore Mysteries

633 HTV MÃºsica - TV / Canal 765 Encore Action

634 VIDEO ROLA - TV / Canal 766 Encore Westerns

636 Mun2 East - TV / Canal 768 WAM!

637 MTV TR3S 770 Fox Movie Channel

640 Cine Latino Espanol 774 Independent Film Channel (IFC)

644 Discovery en EspaÃ±ol 778 Sundance Channel

645 HITN 801 Music Choice: Sounds of the Season

649 EWTNESP 802 Music Choice: Today's Country

701 HBO 803 Music Choice: Classic Country

702 HBO 2 804 Music Choice: Bluegrass

703 HBO Signature 805 Music Choice: Hip-Hop and R&B

704 HBO Family 806 Music Choice: Classic R&B

705 HBO Comedy 807 Music Choice: R&B Soul

706 HBO Zone 808 Music Choice: R&B Hits

707 HBO Latino 809 Music Choice: Rap

708 HBO West 810 Music Choice: Metal


No. Category Channel Name No. Category Channel Name


811 Music Choice: Rock 1006 International Movies On Demand

812 Music Choice: Arena Rock 1019 Thriller Movies On Demand

813 Music Choice: Classic Rock 1020 Drama Movies On Demand

814 Music Choice: Adult Alternative 1021 Kids & Teens Movies On Demand

815 Music Choice: Alternative 1022 Classic Movies On Demand

816 Music Choice: Retro-Active 1023 Action Movies On Demand

817 Music Choice: Electronica 1024 Comedy Movies On Demand

818 Music Choice: Dance 1091 Adult On Demand

819 Music Choice: Lite Hits 1093 Outrageous On Demand

820 Music Choice: Adult Top 40 1095 Howard TV On Demand

821 Music Choice: Hit List 1111 HBO On Demand

822 Music Choice: Kidz Only! 1112 Cinemax On Demand

823 Music Choice: Party Favorites 1113 Showtime On Demand

824 Music Choice: Showcase 1114 TMC On Demand

825 Music Choice: '90s 1120 Here! TV On Demand

826 Music Choice: '80s 1122 BEVOD on Demand

827 Music Choice: '70s 1125 Disney Channel On Demand

828 Music Choice: Solid Gold Oldies 1301 Automotive On Demand

829 Music Choice: Smooth Jazz 1303 Find It On Demand

830 Music Choice: Jazz 1305 Movie Trailers On Demand

831 Music Choice: Blues 1306 Election 08 on Demand

832 Music Choice: Reggae 1307 Journey TV On Demand

833 Music Choice: Soundscapes 1400 Central Texas On Demand

834 Music Choice: Easy Listening 1401 PhotoShow TV

835 Music Choice: Big Band & Swing 1407 TV Guide Spot On Demand

836 Music Choice: Singers & Standards 1408 News 8 Austin On Demand

837 Music Choice: Show Tunes 1409 News & World On Demand

838 Music Choice: Contemporary Christian 1411 Kids On Demand Preschool

839 Music Choice: Gospel 1412 Kids On Demand

840 Music Choice: Classical Masterpieces 1414 Lifestyle On Demand

841 Music Choice: Light Classical 1422 Homes @ Home

842 Music Choice: Pop Latino 1428 Oxygen On Demand

843 Music Choice: Musica Urbana 1431 Exercise TV On Demand

844 Music Choice: Salsa y Merengue 1432 On Demand Health Solutions

845 Music Choice: Mexicana 1434 National Geographic On Demand

846 Music Choice: Rock En Espanol 1440 A&E On Demand

847 Music Choice: Americana 1445 BBC America On Demand

848 Music Choice: Opera 1460 Sports On Demand

901 - 905 ESPN GamePlan - ESPN Full Court 1464 Sportskool On Demand

906 ESPN GamePlan ESPN Full Court 1475 Cutting Edge On Demand

911 - 921 NBA League Pass - MLS Direck Kick 1478 Entertainment On Demand

940 Playboy 1479 HD Showcase

941 Penthouse TV 1484 Music On Demand

942 TEN Blox 1486 Music Choice On Demand 1

943 TEN Clips 1487 Music Choice On Demand 2

950 Movies On Demand Previews 1490 Azteca America on Demand

951 Pay Per View Events 1501 KTBC- HD

958 iNDemand Sports and Events Previews 1507 News 8 Non-Stop Weather HD

960 - 973 NHL Center Ice - MLB Extra Innings 1509 News 8 Non-Stop Sports HD

1000 Movies On Demand 1511 KVUE-HD

1001 HD Video On Demand 1512 KVUE 2

1002 Free Movies On Demand 1531 KEYE HD

1003 Events On Demand 1541 KLRU HD

1004 Espanol On Demand 1542 KLRU - Create TV


No. Category Channel Name No. Category Channel Name


1611 HGTV HD 1650 HD PPV Sports Events

1612 Food Network HD 1653 TBS in HD

1615 TLC HD 1654 TNT HD

1617 Discovery HD Theater 1655 Travel Channel HD

1618 Discovery Channel HD 1656 Universal HD

1619 Disney HD 1658 Lifetime Movie Network HD

1620 National Geographic HD 1659 Hallmark Movie Channel HD

1621 ABC Family HD 1660 A&E HD

1622 Animal Planet HD 1661 BIO HD

1624 Science Channel HD 1664 MHD

1626 The History Channel HD 1670 HBO East High Definition

1630 CNN HD 1675 Cinemax HD

1633 The Weather Channel HD 1678 Showtime High Definition

1634 Fox Business News HD 1680 The Movie Channel HD

1635 ESPN-HD 1684 Starz HD

1636 ESPN2 High Definition 1687 MOJO

1637 ESPN News HD 1692 HD Net

1639 Fox Sports - HD 1693 HD Net Movies

1640 Big Ten HD 1698 HD Showcase

1646 Versus/Golf Channel HD



Is anyone else as unimpressed as I am? No FX. No USA.


And they have a channel that shares with Golf, a religious channel?


Give me a break.


Sorry about the way it looks, click on the link for a better view.


----------



## edjrwinnt

When is A T & T Uverse coming to Lorain County? They are adding a lot of hi-def channels.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=26238


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14960202
> 
> 
> When is A T & T Uverse coming to Lorain County? They are adding a lot of hi-def channels.
> 
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=26238



Call them and ask. I've heard many people can't get an answer out of them, even those who already have the boxes on their street.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14960261
> 
> 
> Call them and ask. I've heard many people can't get an answer out of them, even those who already have the boxes on their street.



This is true. They are wacked in the head when it comes to where they do and don't install.

Where my brother lives, to the right 3000 ft down the road, they have U-verse. To the left 2000 ft down the road they have U-verse. The people who live directly behind him (their backyards touch), they have U-verse. However, he keeps asking AT&T when he will have access to U-verse, they keep telling him NEXT YEAR







. I know that doesn't seem far away now, but this is how it's been since spring time.

Here's the topper on the cake... he is a tech supervisor for AT&T, so his answers are coming straight from the horses mouth.


I'll tell you another thing too. In this area (and probably everywhere), Time Warner is losing thousands of customers to U-verse. That's how much they are undercutting TW. They are relentless with their marketing campaign too once they do come to your neighborhood. Back to the old fashioned cold-calling. They knocked on my door at least 4 times over a few weeks time. I guess they thought I was lieing the first 3 times I said no














.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/14960202
> 
> 
> When is A T & T Uverse coming to Lorain County? They are adding a lot of hi-def channels.
> 
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=26238



The day after they start providing *LOCAL* phone service in Lorain County!


In other words forgetaboutit! If you are in Windstream territory you can get Dish Networtk (actually anybody can get Dish but if you want "bundled service" check out the old green pickup truck). If you are in Century territory forgetaboutit. If you are in Verizion someday you may have FIOS. But at&t will never be in Lorain County.


----------



## toby10

OTA 55-1 WBNX had some serious *echo* in their audio feed last night.

Just using 2 ch audio to TV speakers at the time.


Anyone else catch this?


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14963303
> 
> 
> OTA 55-1 WBNX had some serious *echo* in their audio feed last night.
> 
> Just using 2 ch audio to TV speakers at the time.
> 
> 
> Anyone else catch this?



They had it on cable also.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/14963457
> 
> 
> They had it on cable also.



They may be trying to fix the Dolby 5.1 problem I told them about.


Just a guess.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14963615
> 
> 
> They may be trying to fix the Dolby 5.1 problem I told them about.
> 
> 
> Just a guess.



So, YET AGAIN, we have hookbill to thank for this mess!


Thanks a lot!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14963983
> 
> 
> So, YET AGAIN, we have hookbill to thank for this mess!
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot!



Oh your quite welcome. After all, they are here to provide me good television.


I got an idea. Get a home theater. The fact that it cost you money, that's your problem. And it's being a good American, the economy is hurting!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14964030
> 
> 
> Oh your quite welcome. After all, they are here to provide me good television.
> 
> 
> I got an idea. Get a home theater. The fact that it cost you money, that's your problem. And it's being a good American, the economy is hurting!



Oh, trust me, I have a very nice home theatre setup.










Generally I just don't bother with turning on a 980 watt amplifier for surround audio when viewing news or sitcoms or general program offerings.

Sports and movies get the full treatment.


----------



## orange5814

*WKYC Sound Issue:* I also had the WEWS LFE noise last week and weekend. Additionally, did anyone notice an occasional "pop" or "crackle" noise when watching "Law and Order SVU" last night. I recorded the show and was able to listen to the noise... It sounds like static, coming through the center channel and occasionally front L/R. I think I remember noticing this over the weekend also with a recording of last weeks "The Office"


Any help is surely appreciated. This only appears to be occuring on Channel 3. All the other stations sound good.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/14964151
> 
> 
> Oh, trust me, I have a very nice home theatre setup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally I just don't bother with turning on a 980 watt amplifier for surround audio when viewing news or sitcoms or general program offerings.
> 
> Sports and movies get the full treatment.



Bragger!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14964273
> 
> 
> Bragger!



Nah. It's a 140 watt x 7 ch AVR. Total watts is just mediocre for HTR usage. The real HTR buffs with dedicated HTR rooms will output watts into the 1,000's to push big speaker systems.


But for my room & setup it's quite incredible at DD and DTS reproduction. With the addition of HD-DVD and Blu-ray this year (see, I am helping the economy







) the HD audio is truly amazing even on my mediocre setup.


But, again, unless it's a movie or sports, I generally don't bother with it.

This is how I justify to my Lib friends that I am "green".


----------



## kinglerch

I don't know if this has been discussed before. This thread must be by far the most active local thread.


I did a digital channel search last night trying to find 25.1 but instead found 2.1 and 2.2, both of which are duplicates of WKYC 3.1 and 3.2. Are these permanent homes for WKYC, or some unintentional duplication?


----------



## Vchat20

It's probably just a glitch with your set and I'd try to rescan it. The actual frequency WKYC is on currently is in channel 2 and is later going to move, but should always stay at 3.1 and 3.2 as the 'visible' channel number as dictated by the PSIP data.


----------



## paule123

Not sure if this is a DirecTV problem or a WVIZ problem - it's 6pm ET and I should be seeing The Newshour on channel CL25, however I'm getting a 4:3 center-cut of a 16:9 nature program (Desert Speaks) (presumably on one of WVIZ's HD subchannels)


Edit: I think D* has their local tuner tuned to the wrong subchannel. Maybe this is a good sign of soon getting WVIZ HD via DirecTV ...


Thought just occurred to me - why does WVIZ have a different schedule for analog 25 than the main 25.1 HD subchannel? This is going to be a problem for providers like DirecTV - how the heck are they supposed to know when to start using the digital sub for regular programming instead of the analog? As it is now, the guides don't match up.


Speaking of PBS digital transition, has anyone noticed PBS 45/49 apparently is doing their digital transition early, in November? They've been running a spot about it in between programs, kind of long and complicated explanation of the timeline , not sure how many people will understand.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14967662
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is a DirecTV problem or a WVIZ problem - it's 6pm ET and I should be seeing The Newshour on channel CL25, however I'm getting a 4:3 center-cut of a 16:9 nature program (Desert Speaks) (presumably on one of WVIZ's HD subchannels)
> 
> 
> Edit: I think D* has their local tuner tuned to the wrong subchannel. Maybe this is a good sign of soon getting WVIZ HD via DirecTV ...
> 
> 
> Thought just occurred to me - why does WVIZ have a different schedule for analog 25 than the main 25.1 HD subchannel? This is going to be a problem for providers like DirecTV - how the heck are they supposed to know when to start using the digital sub for regular programming instead of the analog? As it is now, the guides don't match up.



WVIZ, like many PBS stations, is airing the 24/7 PBS-HD feed on their main channel. That feed goes away on 02/17/09, so I'd guess that they'll begin upconverting SD and showing HD when available (like the network stations) in the near future.



> Quote:
> Speaking of PBS digital transition, has anyone noticed PBS 45/49 apparently is doing their digital transition early, in November? They've been running a spot about it in between programs, kind of long and complicated explanation of the timeline , not sure how many people will understand.



Only 45. WNEO-DT is currently on channel 46, but they want to be on channel 45 after the transition, I'd guess due to interference concerns with WOAC-DT 47. Rather than do the tower work in the middle of the winter, they are doing the transition there early.


WEAO 49 (DT 50) is unaffected.


- Trip


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14967662
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is a DirecTV problem or a WVIZ problem - it's 6pm ET and I should be seeing The Newshour on channel CL25, however I'm getting a 4:3 center-cut of a 16:9 nature program (Desert Speaks) (presumably on one of WVIZ's HD subchannels)
> 
> 
> Edit: I think D* has their local tuner tuned to the wrong subchannel. Maybe this is a good sign of soon getting WVIZ HD via DirecTV ...
> 
> 
> Thought just occurred to me - why does WVIZ have a different schedule for analog 25 than the main 25.1 HD subchannel? This is going to be a problem for providers like DirecTV - how the heck are they supposed to know when to start using the digital sub for regular programming instead of the analog? As it is now, the guides don't match up.
> 
> 
> Speaking of PBS digital transition, has anyone noticed PBS 45/49 apparently is doing their digital transition early, in November? They've been running a spot about it in between programs, kind of long and complicated explanation of the timeline , not sure how many people will understand.



WVIZ and WNEO/WEAO are doing the digital diferently. On WNEO/WEAO the "main analog channel" can be found on their .2 subchannel. WVIZ OTOH does not carry their main analog chanel anywhere on their digital transmission! Sometimes the analog and PBS HD match, but not 24/7. On Dish Network they erroniously mirror the analog schedule on 25.4, however that guide is totally wrong. as 25.4 is "Create". Fortunatley I get 25.0 off the satellite, those with only ATSC and no NTSC miss the analog feed alltogether.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14968523
> 
> 
> On Dish Network they erroniously mirror the analog schedule on 25.4, however that guide is totally wrong. as 25.4 is "Create". Fortunatley I get 25.0 off the satellite, those with only ATSC and no NTSC miss the analog feed alltogether.



DirecTV is doing the same screwy thing with the guide for 25.4. Shows the analog schedule, but it's actually Create. This is pissing me off. How does this go by for hours unnoticed by WVIZ or DirecTV ? Time to make some calls and give these people a clue... Meanwhile it's back over to PBS 49 where they have the analog and digital schedule in sync...


Edit: Just got off the phone with DirecTV. If I beleive what the CSR is saying, apparently they are picking up the digital signal for PBS 25 as of yesterday. I told her about WVIZ's "unique" situation of not mirroring the analog with a digital schedule. She made a "notation in the account" for engineering to "look at it". Next call, WVIZ.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14969639
> 
> 
> Edit: Just got off the phone with DirecTV. If I beleive what the CSR is saying, apparently they are picking up the digital signal for PBS 25 as of yesterday. I told her about WVIZ's "unique" situation of not mirroring the analog with a digital schedule. *She made a "notation in the account" for engineering to "look at it".* Next call, WVIZ.



A. Do you think she honsestly understood what you were talking about?


B. Yeah, right, sure she did.


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14969639
> 
> 
> DirecTV is doing the same screwy thing with the guide for 25.4. Shows the analog schedule, but it's actually Create. This is pissing me off. How does this go by for hours unnoticed by WVIZ or DirecTV ? Time to make some calls and give these people a clue... Meanwhile it's back over to PBS 49 where they have the analog and digital schedule in sync...
> 
> 
> Edit: Just got off the phone with DirecTV. If I beleive what the CSR is saying, apparently they are picking up the digital signal for PBS 25 as of yesterday. I told her about WVIZ's "unique" situation of not mirroring the analog with a digital schedule. She made a "notation in the account" for engineering to "look at it". Next call, WVIZ.



While that maybe true and they are carrying 25-1 they need to correct the EPG and secondly throw the switch as currently the HD feed is airing in 480i/SD and is super stretched to the max, ugly as all hell. I'm not sure about the rest as I don't have an OTA plugged into my box but they are definitely airing the HD feed in super stretch SD mode.


----------



## ErieMarty

while you might not be impressed by it..I would take that right now..as its more then what we have coming from TW in NE Ohio


I wonder how many channels are FREE compared to paid (not talking the HBO type of channels)


----------



## ErieMarty

why can't we get something like this in NE Ohio...its the same Time Warner Corp..isn't it ???



702 WGRZ NBC HD


703 WNED PBS HD


704 WIVB CBS HD


706 WUTV FOX HD


707 WKBW ABC HD


708 MyTV Buffalo HD


715 HGTV HD


716 Food Network HD


719 Fox Business Network


721 CNN HD


723 TBS in HD


724 TNT HD


725 ESPNU HD


726 ESPN-HD


727 ESPN2 HD


728 ESPN News HD


729 NHL Network HD


730 MSG HD


731 SportsNet NY HD


732 The Tennis Channel


733 Outdoor Channel HD


734 National Geographic HD


735 Travel Channel HD


736 TLC HD


737 Science Channel HD


738 Discovery Channel HD


739 Animal Planet HD


740 Discovery HD Theater


741 Planet Green HD


742 A&E HD


743 BIO HD


744 History in HD


748 Toon Disney HD


749 ABC Family HD


750 Disney HD


751 Lifetime Movie Network HD


760 Palladia


770 YES HD


771 Versus/Golf Channel HD


780 HBO HD


781 Showtime HD


782 Starz HD


783 Cinemax HD


790 Universal HD


791 HD Net


792 HDNET Movies


793 MOJO


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/14968523
> 
> 
> WVIZ and WNEO/WEAO are doing the digital diferently. On WNEO/WEAO the "main analog channel" can be found on their .2 subchannel. WVIZ OTOH does not carry their main analog chanel anywhere on their digital transmission! Sometimes the analog and PBS HD match, but not 24/7. On Dish Network they erroniously mirror the analog schedule on 25.4, however that guide is totally wrong. as 25.4 is "Create". Fortunatley I get 25.0 off the satellite, those with only ATSC and no NTSC miss the analog feed alltogether.



WNEO/WEAO will begin programming xx.1 as an HD stream of their analog program schedule (native and upconverted) on Friday October 31... sometime late in the day. (We received a notice from them) This duplication will continue until Feb 2009 at which time xx.1 will remain primary and they will add other programming on the sub channels,

WNEO is running an early shutdown notice (complicated) per FCC rules. FCC pretty much dictates what must be said.

The transition in Salem will put their digital signal into their current (45) analog antenna at the top of the tower. It is an omnidirectional antenna and far higher than the current directional digital (46) that is located on the side of the tower. I am told that the original plans included tower work and crews for the change-over were scheduled in advance (big demand for crews at this time)... to avoid winter weather delays as Trip in VA says.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14970461
> 
> 
> while you might not be impressed by it..I would take that right now..as its more then what we have coming from TW in NE Ohio
> 
> 
> I wonder how many channels are FREE compared to paid (not talking the HBO type of channels)



I put a link on there so you should be able to see the actual site.


----------



## hookbill

ErieMarty, as opposed of copying your list I thought I would just comment on it. Again I'm not seeing what I want and the problem is that what I want I could get on satellite.


They simply are not offering enough channels. Specially compared to Austin TX.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14970838
> 
> 
> ErieMarty, as opposed of copying your list I thought I would just comment on it. Again I'm not seeing what I want and the problem is that what I want I could get on satellite.
> 
> 
> They simply are not offering enough channels. Specially compared to Austin TX.




what channels are you looking for thats not being offered by TW in both of those locations


Yes..Buffalo and Austin is less then you can probably get on Dish/Direct..but its a lot more then what we are getting from TW in NE Ohio right now..and thats my point


why can those places have them and we can't.


does each region have to Negotiate there own cost for the different Channels or is it all handled from Time Warner Nationally


hope you understand what I am trying to say or ask


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14970889
> 
> 
> what channels are you looking for thats not being offered by TW in both of those locations
> 
> 
> Yes..Buffalo and Austin is less then you can probably get on Dish/Direct..but its a lot more then what we are getting from TW in NE Ohio right now..and thats my point
> 
> 
> why can those places have them and we can't.
> 
> 
> does each region have to Negotiate there own cost for the different Channels or is it all handled from Time Warner Nationally
> 
> 
> hope you understand what I am trying to say or ask



Yes I understand. It does vary from region to region. For what reason, I don't know. Unlike Satellite they do not offer the same programming for everyone.


The most important ones to me that arn't on the list are USA and FX. I basically watch a great deal of dramas and FX IMHO is the best in providing quality dramas that are equal or better then the ones that are offerred by Showtime and HBO.


Rescue Me in HD, The Shield (which unfortunately is ending) and several others that I consider pretty darn good we will not get.


Now excuse me, I have to figure out why my television just cut off.


Nevermind back on.


Go to that link one or two pages back and the green colored channels are the high tier.


----------



## paule123

I asked about WVIZ/DirecTV over on DBSTalk, and someone posted a link to a timetable for Dish and DirecTV transitioning all their local feeds from analog to digital. Dish and DirecTV are doing their digital transition this week (10/27) - that explains the WVIZ issue.

http://mstv.org/docs/satschedalpha.pdf


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/14970142
> 
> 
> While that maybe true and they are carrying 25-1 they need to correct the EPG and secondly throw the switch as currently the HD feed is airing in 480i/SD and is super stretched to the max, ugly as all hell. I'm not sure about the rest as I don't have an OTA plugged into my box but they are definitely airing the HD feed in super stretch SD mode.



I am not getting a stretch on WVIZ D* CL25. Something on your box must be doing that.


----------



## bassguitarman

Just got an email, they are raising my rates for the second time since taking over Adelphia. This looks like it could be as much as 10 bux a month, and still no new HD content.

This may be the "straw" that forces me to look into satelite closer.

Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/14971621
> 
> 
> Just got an email, they are raising my rates for the second time since taking over Adelphia. This looks like it could be as much as 10 bux a month, and still no new HD content.
> 
> This may be the "straw" that forces me to look into satelite closer.
> 
> Dave



Interesting. I have not received a rate increase at all, matter of fact because of my constant complaining to Steve Fry my bill is now lower then it ever was.


Last month I contacted the main office that was posted in this forum earlier. I complained about digital channels being copy once. I didn't get my way, but I got 20.00 off my bill last month.


I think they raised Showtime to 12.00 because now it's "Showtime with On Demand."


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14971547
> 
> 
> I am not getting a stretch on WVIZ D* CL25. Something on your box must be doing that.



Been emailing WIZ about this and here is their response:



> Quote:
> You are correct. They started yesterday airing channel 25.1, but down-converting to a standard definition signal. We have no idea why they are down-converting the signal since it is an HD signal. Apparently their on-screen guide still shows the content of WVIZ analog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We were unaware that they made the switch yesterday, and our engineers are getting in contact with them today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Audience Services


----------



## pbarach

I've noticed that whenever I tune into a classical music program on WVIZ-HD via TWC NEO (channel 411), the sound is messed up. My receiver shows that it's Dolby PLII rather than Dolby Digital, the volume level is 10 dB or more lower than every other channel, and high frequencies are extremely muffled even when I turn up the volume. I noticed this on all of the "Keeping the Score" broadcasts, all of the Metopera presentations, and last night's all-Bernstein Carnegie Hall opener. The sound on the regular WVIZ channel was just fine (although Dolby PLII). Anybody else notice this? I have emailed WVIZ twice and never received an answer, and I can't determine whether this problem is their fault or TWC's... The sound on other WVIZ-HD programs is just fine, and the PQ is excellent.


----------



## paule123

Looks like DirecTV switched back to the WVIZ analog feed.


Now we wait and see how soon WVIZ steps up to the plate and gets their local programming schedule on one of their digital subchannels...


----------



## DCSholtis

Yeah it was strange that even WVIZ wasn't aware that Directv had down converted their HD signal on the regular Channel 25.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/14975905
> 
> 
> I've noticed that whenever I tune into a classical music program on WVIZ-HD via TWC NEO (channel 411), the sound is messed up. My receiver shows that it's Dolby PLII rather than Dolby Digital, the volume level is 10 dB or more lower than every other channel, and high frequencies are extremely muffled even when I turn up the volume. I noticed this on all of the "Keeping the Score" broadcasts, all of the Metopera presentations, and last night's all-Bernstein Carnegie Hall opener. The sound on the regular WVIZ channel was just fine (although Dolby PLII). Anybody else notice this? I have emailed WVIZ twice and never received an answer, and I can't determine whether this problem is their fault or TWC's... The sound on other WVIZ-HD programs is just fine, and the PQ is excellent.



WVIZ does not broadcast in DD. They only send stereo. Your reciever makes it PL. The level is low too.


Ray


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/14976806
> 
> 
> Looks like DirecTV switched back to the WVIZ analog feed.
> 
> 
> Now we wait and see how soon WVIZ steps up to the plate and gets their local programming schedule on one of their digital subchannels...



Final word from WVIZ I just got this email:



> Quote:
> Dan,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they weren't testingthey just screwed up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were not supposed to switch to our HD feed until we had finished converting all of our analog programming to the HD channel so that the analog and HD channels would carry identical programming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When they made the switch prematurely (we weren't aware of the switch until you e-mailed us), we got in contact with them to explain the error. As of 8:30 last night, they had switched back to our analog signal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will not be going to our HD signal until we have completed our conversion of analog programming. This will probably not happen until after the 1st of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your diligence in keeping us informed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry Kest
> 
> 
> Audience Services


----------



## ZManCartFan

I finally have my first complaint about Armstrong. They added QVC-HD today...


----------



## mgd6912

Anyone have any ideas on how to get a price break from TWC? I know that in itself is laughable, but... I have HDTV and a couple DVR boxes with them and also have RR with the 7mb DL speeds. Would I tell a big diff going to 1.5 mb DL speeds? Would that effect gaming? I dont think I can even "threaten" them with other offers from Dish companies. I am not sure if this is the right area for these questions, but it seems like people in here know their stuff. If anyone has any trick/tips/other info please let me know. Thanks!

mgd


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgd6912* /forum/post/14981669
> 
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on how to get a price break from TWC? I know that in itself is laughable, but... I have HDTV and a couple DVR boxes with them and also have RR with the 7mb DL speeds. Would I tell a big diff going to 1.5 mb DL speeds? Would that effect gaming? I dont think I can even "threaten" them with other offers from Dish companies. I am not sure if this is the right area for these questions, but it seems like people in here know their stuff. If anyone has any trick/tips/other info please let me know. Thanks!
> 
> mgd



Ask the CSR "How do I cancel my TWC service? By phone? Online?" When the CSR asks why tell them you are thinking of switching to ATT Uverse cuz their prices are much lower (assuming they are).


TWC CSR may just offer a deduct off of your bill. Then again, maybe not.


Little dishonest, but hey........so is telling all of you TWC customers you are getting SDV by Oct. 10th.










Worth a shot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/14981527
> 
> 
> I finally have my first complaint about Armstrong. They added QVC-HD today...



Believe it or not I would like for TW to add that. My wife watches that all the time and it pisses me off that I bought her a HD television and all she does is look at those shopping channels.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14981898
> 
> 
> Believe it or not I would like for TW to add that. My wife watches that all the time and it pisses me off that I bought her a HD television and all she does is look at those shopping channels.



Hmm, imagine that. A wife pissing off a husband.







Maybe if you had bought it FROM QVC...


Hey, at least yours watches TV. Mine would rather not even have one in the house. Too many things (for me) to do.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/14981898
> 
> 
> Believe it or not I would like for TW to add that. My wife watches that all the time and it pisses me off that I bought her a HD television and all she does is look at those shopping channels.



Hey, the less it *glitters* the less she'll spend.










Wait till nickdawg sees that you want to take up valuable bandwidth with QVC in HD. He'll have a heart attack!


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/14978154
> 
> 
> WVIZ does not broadcast in DD. They only send stereo. Your reciever makes it PL. The level is low too.
> 
> 
> Ray



I think there is more to this than low-level. This situation only happens on classical music programming, and the sound is not only MUCH lower in level than all other channels, but also muffled in the highs and very distorted. I just checked, and right now the HD channel's sound level is not significantly different than any of the other channels on my cable box--but they are playing the News Hour.


----------



## canes8301

What do you guys think of Dish Net? We're thinking of making the switch from Time Warner. We're probable going to go with 250+ HD (55 channels) package with DVR. Time Warner is raising thier price on the DVR service, so it won't be that much more expensive to switch. Its just, I don't know anyone with Dish Network. Thanks in advanced.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *canes8301* /forum/post/14983861
> 
> 
> What do you guys think of Dish Net? We're thinking of making the switch from Time Warner. We're probable going to go with 250+ HD (55 channels) package with DVR. Time Warner is raising thier price on the DVR service, so it won't be that much more expensive to switch. Its just, I don't know anyone with Dish Network. Thanks in advanced.



I've been with them for 11 years. Overall I am quite happy with their service. The only problem I had was with a now defunct HD DVR model (921). They gave me one of the current HD DVR models (622) and now I'm quite happy. The 622 does not have any of the bugs that the older DVR's had.


All E* HD receivers have a built-in ATSC OTA tuner, so it's like getting the best of both worlds. I get my locals both via satellite and OTA so if there is ever a problem I have another source for the local channels. Additionally I get all the subchanels via OTA that aren't carried on satellite, plus I also get some of the Youngstown stations (WKBN/WYFX) OTA that E* is not legaly able to sell in the Cleveland market. I get extra NFL games some weekends due to being able to access the Youngstown stations. For example this weekend the Cleveland market loses half of the FOX double header due to the Browns being at home (no "competing" game can be carried at the same time that the home team plays at home). I'll be able to see that additional FOX game via WYFX.


----------



## nickdawg

Looks like they stopped showing the 24/7 national HD feed. Instead it's now a mirror channel of the analog channel. But what really pissed me off is it appears they're not showing HD at all anymore. The commercials were shown in 4:3 OAR and at 4pm when "Nature" came on the "this program is available in high definition" message was on screen, except the show is *STRETCHED* and *LETTERBOXED*!!!! Can somebody tell me why the hell they are stretching programs to fill the 16x9 aspect ratio when they had real HD on yesterday? Is this supposed to be for the 2/17/09 transition? Does that mean we won't be seeing any more _real_ HD? What a step backwards!! Also, there is a smaller bug that appears to be 4x3 safe. How is this going to be 4:3 safe if it is stretched letterbox? It's really going to look awful on SDTV, part of the show is cut off and it's letterboxed.


Listen up, WNEO. This is what you do. Show a full screen 16x9 on the HD channel(no letterbox bars). Then, cut that picture for 4x3. That way 4x3 viewers have a full screen 4x3 picture and 16x9 viewers have a full screen 16x9 picture. And NOTHING ever gets stretched!! 4x3 content is supposed to have bars on the side.


----------



## hookbill

They did this to you because I complained about the fact that WNEO has Dolby 5.1 and WVIZ doesn't. So they said, "OK hook, will make our picture look like crap to make it even.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Yes, this really sucks WNEO.

My 2 kids have been watching the PBS cartoons on WNEO-HD on Saturday mornings for quite some time. Now they are GONE







.

My 4 yr old cried to the point of "uncontrollable sniffles" when I told him there was no Word World on in HD this morning







. Taking away childrens programming for no reason is a new low WNEO. BAD FORM...







.


----------



## JJkizak

49.1 is doing the stretching. I just go to 25.1 which is solid as a rock lately OTA.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14987038
> 
> 
> Yes, this really sucks WNEO.
> 
> My 2 kids have been watching the PBS cartoons on WNEO-HD on Saturday mornings for quite some time. Now they are GONE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> My 4 yr old cried to the point of "uncontrollable sniffles" when I told him there was no Word World on in HD this morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Taking away childrens programming for no reason is a new low WNEO. BAD FORM...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Unbelievable. Can you get WVIZ-DT? It appears to still have the national network feed. I'm crying to the point of "uncontrollable sniffles" when I see what should be a beautiful HD presentation in stretched letterbox. And the bastards show all their commercials and advertising in 4:3 the correct way and they stretch all programming.


I just can't get over how stupid they are. What would possess them to stretch letterbox programming? The reason it is letterbox is because it is 16x9. Why are they stretching a 16x9 presentation on a 16x9 channel? This is the kind of stupidity we see on cable channels like History and A&E(you're not missing much by not having those channels).


I hope WNEO loses serious ca$h over this. The thing I always liked about PBS HD was not having to see the local inserted garbage. This goes for both channels, the local crap sucks and it was nice to have a pure HD channel, even if it was on a loop. That seemed to be the way of the future-no more mixing HD and SD sources together. Now they're taking steps back by stretching SD programming.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/14987120
> 
> 
> 49.1 is doing the stretching. I just go to 25.1 which is solid as a rock lately OTA.
> 
> JJK



Believe it or not, I'm going to be watching WVIZ more now(despite the lack of 5.1) just because it is all HD. Well, until they start this foolishness too.










And what else doesn't make sense is that they are not sending the downconvert HD feed of WNEO down for SD cable. The SD channel still looks like crap. I find it unwatchable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14987038
> 
> 
> Yes, this really sucks WNEO.
> 
> My 2 kids have been watching the PBS cartoons on WNEO-HD on Saturday mornings for quite some time. Now they are GONE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> My 4 yr old cried to the point of "uncontrollable sniffles" when I told him there was no Word World on in HD this morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Taking away childrens programming for no reason is a new low WNEO. BAD FORM...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Well it isn't just WNEO. Nobody has Saturday morning cartoons.


When I was a kid every Saturday there were so many cartoons on.


Now I hate to hear about your child crying but isn't there like a half a dozen channels that have cartoons on them?


----------



## nickdawg

I guess "Western Reserve PBS" is only pissing on PBS network programming. Right now, some "Our Ohio" spit is on and it is letterboxed and unstretched on WNEO-DT. There are bars on all 4 sides of the screen. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of HDTV and 16x9 TV screens? Why have an "HD" channel when it's just going to be a mirror image of the SD channel, and windowboxed. I liked the old way WNEO did it, with the regular HD channel on 45.1 and a "DT" SD digital channel(same as analog) on 45.2. Why didn't they just keep it that way and feed 45.2 to TWC for Standard Definition digital?


----------



## Smarty-pants

What is "legitimate cable"? I subscribe to and pay for Time Warner Lifeline Basic. That package gives me channels 2-20 analog, plus all of the local digital/HD channels via QAM. It costs me less than $15 a month. We sink more of our entertainment wants into the theater, including high_end hardware and HD movies. I enjoy that much more than television, so having another 100+ channels to watch is really not that appealing to me. Of the few shows I do watch, I catch those in HD primetime on the channels I do get.


As far as Saturday morning cartoons are concerned, we do not have the high tier cable channels like Disney, Nickleodian, and Boomerang.

My kids (2 yrs old and 4 yrs old) get a steady diet of PBS educational programming on the PBS channels, and then we also have a library of many different educational and fun_to_watch movies on dvd.


For a long time now, WNEO/WVIZ national HD feed has had PBS educational cartoons playing on Saturday morning until 12:00pm. My kids love the shows, and the animation looks really nice in HD too. The other cartoons on "free tv" (which there are VERY few anymore on Saturday morning anyway)... those shows are the extreme violent type that turn children into criminals, so I do not let them watch that crap.


We actually used to get WNEO-DT and WVIZ-DT, but a couple of months ago they decided to take away WVIZ-DT for some reason. Now we have both in analog, and WNEO-DT. The kids also watch the PBS kids shows on WVIZ-SD Monday-Friday. Saturday is the only day that WNEO-DT has the PBS cartoons on in HD... and now that is gone too.


----------



## DCSholtis

It appears that WVIZ-DT will be doing the same soon look at the email I posted yesterday. They'll be replacing the national feed with a local HD feed as soon as they are able to convert their local programming. Sometime around January 1.


----------



## nickdawg

I checked WNEO-DT now and they're showing the program in the proper aspect ratio. It's not full screen 16x9 but at leas there is no more stretching. The windowboxed(bars on all sides) picture is a step up above stretched.


----------



## Inundated

You can complain all you want about WNEO/WEAO dumping the 24/7 PBS HD feed... but as far as I know, that feed is actually going away period, nationally.


At some point, WVIZ will have to do the same with 25.1 - switching it to a combined upconverted/HD feed like all the other (commercial) networks do now. WNEO/WEAO just made the switch early.


----------



## nickdawg

Ouch. So touchy. What I meant is a _real_ CATV package(ie digital) that contains more channels, including an entire tier of kids programming(some that run all day and night like Noggin and Disney) and access to WVIZ DT.


I don't get it. Why invest money in HT equipment when you're using an awful source? Basic(analog) cable without a digital box is an awful source. I had technical difficulties the other day that forced me into analog on the TV and it was awful. Analog is unwatchable on a HDTV set.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14988906
> 
> 
> Ouch. So touchy. What I meant is a _real_ CATV package(ie digital) that contains more channels, including an entire tier of kids programming(some that run all day and night like Noggin and Disney) and access to WVIZ DT.
> 
> 
> I don't get it. Why invest money in HT equipment when you're using an awful source? Basic(analog) cable without a digital box is an awful source. I had technical difficulties the other day that forced me into analog on the TV and it was awful. Analog is unwatchable on a HDTV set.



I'm not being touchy. You said my cable was not "legitimate", which could be interpreted as many things. Just setting the record straight, that's all.


I have an HD set in my living room, which is where most of the analog viewing is done. It most certainly is not a beautiful picture, but it's not unwatchable.


I personally don't watch a lot of television. Just a few shows here and there. Those are usually prime-time shows in HD, so those look good on any tv in the house (don't forget, I do have all my locals in digital/HD), and even in the theater where I have a large projection set_up.

So the "HT equipment" is for use with primarily HD and dvd sources. Like HD television as already mentioned, HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies, dvd movies, and HD audio.


----------



## hookbill




Smarty-pants said:


> I'm not being touchy. You said my cable was not "legitimate", which could be interpreted as many things. Just setting the record straight, that's all./[/quit]
> 
> 
> Yeah, he's calling you a thief. Matter of fact I think he was indicating in that statement that your desire not to see your child cry indicates perhaps some kind of sick thing inside you.
> 
> 
> nickdawg, you should be ashamed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14988955
> 
> 
> I have an HD set in my living room, which is where most of the analog viewing is done. It most certainly is not a beautiful picture, but it's not unwatchable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought about my wife's TV, but she started complaining about these "flashes" and picture problems.
> 
> 
> Flashes are probably because she just turned 41.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rest I'm quite sure was because she got use to looking at flat screen, mostly in HD downstairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/14988955
> 
> 
> I personally don't watch a lot of television. Just a few shows here and there. Those are usually prime-time shows in HD, so those look good on any tv in the house (don't forget, I do have all my locals in digital/HD), and even in the theater where I have a large projection set_up.
> 
> So the "HT equipment" is for use with primarily HD and dvd sources. Like HD television as already mentioned, HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies, dvd movies, and HD audio.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now there is a side of you we never see. First, who'd of thought you even had kids and if you got a family that limits your time to watch. Trust me between my 10 birds and cats it is time consuming and I know kids take more time.
> 
> 
> By the way I hope they don't turn out like you. There's enough wise guys in this world as there is.
> 
> 
> What, you looking at me?
Click to expand...


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14988498
> 
> 
> You can complain all you want about WNEO/WEAO dumping the 24/7 PBS HD feed... but as far as I know, that feed is actually going away period, nationally.
> 
> 
> At some point, WVIZ will have to do the same with 25.1 - switching it to a combined upconverted/HD feed like all the other (commercial) networks do now. WNEO/WEAO just made the switch early.



Innundated is 100% correct. Every PBS station has to drop the national PBS-HD feed by 02/17/09 because it will be going away on that date. Most are doing so early, to reduce confusion among converter box users, and because the PBS-HD feed is being transitioned to a new satellite some time in the next 30 days or so. (From AMC3 to AMC21)


If I had to guess, I'd say the reason there's no HD is because they're waiting to have the satellite dish moved, and can't receive the HD off the new satellite until that happens. I can't say that with any kind of certainty, but it makes sense in my mind.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14990214
> 
> 
> If I had to guess, I'd say the reason there's no HD is because they're waiting to have the satellite dish moved, and can't receive the HD off the new satellite until that happens. I can't say that with any kind of certainty, but it makes sense in my mind.



I was under the impression that the 45.1/49.1 feed now carries whatever PBS does make available in HD among their regular programming (NewsHour, prime time shows in HD, etc.). Is this not the case?


I'd assume so, if only because there would be no reason to keep 45.2/49.2 as the SD simulcast!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14990405
> 
> 
> I was under the impression that the 45.1/49.1 feed now carries whatever PBS does make available in HD among their regular programming (NewsHour, prime time shows in HD, etc.). Is this not the case?
> 
> 
> I'd assume so, if only because there would be no reason to keep 45.2/49.2 as the SD simulcast!



You didn't read the complaints up the page of no PBS-HD on 45/49?


I'm not there to see 45/49 for myself, but I thought that's what nickdawg said.


- Trip


----------



## DCSholtis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14988498
> 
> 
> You can complain all you want about WNEO/WEAO dumping the 24/7 PBS HD feed... but as far as I know, that feed is actually going away period, nationally.
> 
> 
> At some point, WVIZ will have to do the same with 25.1 - switching it to a combined upconverted/HD feed like all the other (commercial) networks do now. WNEO/WEAO just made the switch early.



True and as I stated per WVIZ that work should be done on or around January 1, 2009. They are in the process of converting their local stuff to HD and it won't be completed until around that time. After that date as you dated 25.1 will be a combined feed and the 24/7 PBS HD national feed goes bye bye.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DCSholtis* /forum/post/14991376
> 
> 
> True and as I stated per WVIZ that work should be done on or around January 1, 2009. They are in the process of converting their local stuff to HD and it won't be completed until around that time. After that date as you dated 25.1 will be a combined feed and the 24/7 PBS HD national feed goes bye bye.



I believe their studio cameras are already HD capable. It's probably just a matter of upgrading the rest of the infrastructure. This is hardly a trivial job, but they do have a start.


----------



## nickdawg

Now they're showing correct aspect ratio again on 45-1. Antiques Roadshow is on. I'll have to wait until primetime to see how programming is shown. I know "Nature" is on tonight and that's usually HD. I think the "block" here is WNEO doesn't have HDTV recording abilities like WEWS or WKYC, so they have to show all their programming in SDTV when it's not directly from the network. But what angered me is the way widescreen programs were being shown. Why stretch letterbox programs? Just pass them through with bars on all 4 sides. I'll just grudgingly have to watch it, similar to cable networks like USA and Discovery channel that give me beautiful, squashed pictures with a nice frame around them!!!!














































WVIZ is converting local stuff to HD? OMFG!!!! Are they going to do some awful stretchovision thing too? I'm very disappointed, PBS is supposed to be a quality network but they're acting really dumb lately.


I can't wait to see how this will translate for SD viewers. How do you crop the sides off a stretched picture for 4x3?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/14990588
> 
> 
> You didn't read the complaints up the page of no PBS-HD on 45/49?
> 
> 
> I'm not there to see 45/49 for myself, but I thought that's what nickdawg said.



No, I'm not talking about "PBS HD" (the 24/7 feed). I know that's gone, and I see it is no longer OTA on WEAO now myself.


I was wondering aloud if the change now means that occasional PBS shows that are in HD, i.e. "NewsHour", various prime-time HD shows, will now be seen on 49.1 alongside the upconverted regular schedule. Not the full-time feed, but as part of the regular channel like the commercial stations do (when it's HD, it's HD, when it's not, it's upconverted).


I will have to tune into 49.1 when a show should be HD (i.e. NewsHour) and see.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14991961
> 
> 
> I know "Nature" is on tonight and that's usually HD. I think the "block" here is WNEO doesn't have HDTV recording abilities like WEWS or WKYC, so they have to show all their programming in SDTV when it's not directly from the network.



I'm guessing you are 100% correct here.


I don't know PBS well enough to know if they feed live HD shows in set time slots in prime time.


I know there's a common schedule of shows that is supposed to be carried at a certain time - you can tell those shows by their appearance in the same time slot on both WNEO/WEAO and WVIZ. I'm guessing those shows get fed live in HD down the satellite from PBS, and in theory, should be in HD in the newly reconfigured version of 45.1/49.1.


----------



## nickdawg

So far what I've seen on WNEO-DT is many shows that _should_ be HD are being shown in letterbox and stretched. Then I've seen other shows in 4:3 that are being shown 4:3 with sidebars(the correct way). It seems for some reason they like to stretch letterbox programs. They _should_ be shown FULL SCREEN 16:9, NOT stretched.


What doesn't make sense is why they stretch it? If they can't do 16:9 HD, then couldn't they at least give us 16:9 480i? That would be better than a squashed picture with bars on two or four sides of the screen.


And what's going to happen when cable and satellite pulls the trigget on analog and uses HD for downconversion? How will a stretched show translate to 4:3 SD? They need to keep everything OAR to make cable's center cut downconverison easier.


----------



## nickdawg

Also noteworthy: VERSUS is now only available on Digital channel 323. On analog channel 66 there is just a slate stating that it has moved to digital. Yippee!! Maybe TWC will keep up their moving 2 or 3 channels a year to digital. Analog should be gone in about 10 years or more!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14994253
> 
> 
> What doesn't make sense is why they stretch it? If they can't do 16:9 HD, then couldn't they at least give us 16:9 480i? That would be better than a squashed picture with bars on two or four sides of the screen.



In my brief viewing of WEAO-DT Sunday, it looked to me like they weren't stretching 4:3 stuff. I'll have to look again.


I believe the *intent* by WNEO/WEAO is to air the HD programming in pattern from PBS on 45.1/49.1 whenever they are able to do so. Maybe they're working out the kinks. Maybe, as noted, they can't record HD shows. Maybe we're just guessing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14994253
> 
> 
> And what's going to happen when cable and satellite pulls the trigget on analog and uses HD for downconversion? How will a stretched show translate to 4:3 SD? They need to keep everything OAR to make cable's center cut downconverison easier.



I'm pretty sure DirecTV is already doing this in the Cleveland market, as of last week. Isn't that what caused the problems with WVIZ on DirecTV, the fact that they don't have a regular PBS feed on their DT?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14994270
> 
> 
> Also noteworthy: VERSUS is now only available on Digital channel 323. On analog channel 66 there is just a slate stating that it has moved to digital. Yippee!! Maybe TWC will keep up their moving 2 or 3 channels a year to digital. Analog should be gone in about 10 years or more!



You really think they'd want to go hog wild on analog elimination with all the must-haves types around here? Please...
_

"You may be able to please some of the people all of the time, and you may be able to please all of the people some of the time, but you'll never be able to please all of the people all of the time."_ ~Some wise man centuries ahead of his time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14994280
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure DirecTV is already doing this in the Cleveland market, as of last week. Isn't that what caused the problems with WVIZ on DirecTV, the fact that they don't have a regular PBS feed on their DT?



Are they doing it on channels like WKYC and WEWS yet? Or is it just PBS so far? I can't wait until TWC starts this so WBNX will look better on non-HD and so NBC will finally look normal again. SD WKYC looks incredibly stupid when NBC programming is on because they have the bug in a funky place on letterboxed shows. Once they start downconverting HD, we'll finally have a normal 4:3 picture on the SD channel.


-------------------------------------------------


I think they would please ALL of the people here ALL of the time if they completely killed analog. And anyone that doesn't like it can just shut up.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14994309
> 
> 
> I think they would please ALL of the people here ALL of the time if they completely killed analog. And anyone that doesn't like it can just shut up.



Don't get me wrong. I'm with you. I'd LOVE to see Analog permanently eliminated and more effort put into more digital/HD channels as a result. Even something perfectly achievable they can: 1) Kill off all analog and provide customers the now available small footprint tuner boxes for free for every analog outlet, 2) Continue to provide premium set-tops for paying digital access customers, 3) Reduce all in-the-field set-tops to ONLY HD set-tops and cut out SD channels that have HD simulcast equivalents, 4) and of course offer working SDV hardware for third party products EVEN THOUGH the third party CE manufacturers should have been prepared long ago for this...


Fact though is, like I said, you are always going to have those who are stuck in the 80s who are going to do everything in their power to hinder progress for the rest of us and it's made oh so much easier due to Cable's shackles to aging analog technology courtesy of our lovely Govt and Telco-bedmate-FCC.


----------



## ErieMarty

I noticed that Fox Ohio in HD was caring the Kansas/Kansas State Football game in HD on Saturday..


sure better then a blank station when there are no Cavs Games in HD To show


isn't the Fox Regional Sports channels suppose to be going 24/7 HD some time soon..


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14994280
> 
> 
> In my brief viewing of WEAO-DT Sunday, it looked to me like they weren't stretching 4:3 stuff. I'll have to look again.
> 
> 
> I believe the *intent* by WNEO/WEAO is to air the HD programming in pattern from PBS on 45.1/49.1 whenever they are able to do so. Maybe they're working out the kinks. Maybe, as noted, they can't record HD shows. Maybe we're just guessing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure DirecTV is already doing this in the Cleveland market, as of last week. Isn't that what caused the problems with WVIZ on DirecTV, the fact that they don't have a regular PBS feed on their DT?



"...they're working the kinks out." That would be my guess. Seems to me all the other stations went through the same growing pains. I think the News Hour is in HD... let's see what happens tonight. Down with "stretch-o-vision".. if we want to expand our picture, let us do it at home. I think it was Channel 5 that finally stopped doing it. Time will tell.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/14994683
> 
> 
> "...they're working the kinks out." That would be my guess. Seems to me all the other stations went through the same growing pains. I think the News Hour is in HD... let's see what happens tonight. Down with "stretch-o-vision".. if we want to expand our picture, let us do it at home. I think it was Channel 5 that finally stopped doing it. Time will tell.



As I said earlier, I'm pretty sure it's 45/49...er...Western Reserve PBS'...intent to go that route, with 45.1/49.1 carrying stuff in HD surrounded by the rest of the upconverted schedule.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/14994335
> 
> 
> Fact though is, like I said, you are always going to have those who are stuck in the 80s who are going to do everything in their power to hinder progress for the rest of us and it's made oh so much easier due to Cable's shackles to aging analog technology courtesy of our lovely Govt and Telco-bedmate-FCC.



As I said over in the Y-Town thread, unless forced to do so, analog stations won't shut down early...and on the cable side, the cable companies actually want to continue to offer analog for the "lifeline basic" customers...and are actively marketing to them.


It allows them to position themselves as the "easy alternative" to getting an OTA converter box, and allows them to eventually upsell the folks who sign up for a lifeline basic package.


----------



## Jaydogg271




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/14994435
> 
> 
> I noticed that Fox Ohio in HD was caring the Kansas/Kansas State Football game in HD on Saturday..
> 
> 
> sure better then a blank station when there are no Cavs Games in HD To show
> 
> 
> isn't the Fox Regional Sports channels suppose to be going 24/7 HD some time soon..



They usually show football every saturday, altho its never in the guide.


----------



## Jaydogg271

I just noticed Cox added the CW-HD now on channel 707. Odd tho that only 1 channel is added. Usually when we get more HD its 3 or 4


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14994309
> 
> 
> Are they doing it on channels like WKYC and WEWS yet? Or is it just PBS so far? I can't wait until TWC starts this so WBNX will look better on non-HD and so NBC will finally look normal again. SD WKYC looks incredibly stupid when NBC programming is on because they have the bug in a funky place on letterboxed shows. Once they start downconverting HD, we'll finally have a normal 4:3 picture on the SD channel.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> I think they would please ALL of the people here ALL of the time if they completely killed analog. And anyone that doesn't like it can just shut up.



I posted this a few days ago here - last week DirecTV made the transition in the Cleveland market locals from analog to digital.

http://mstv.org/docs/satschedalpha.pdf 


This is why WVIZ got caught with their pants down and we D* people lost WVIZ's local programming for a day or two.


----------



## Inundated

I can't tell, since I am not set up to get WEAO in HD right now, but it looks from my analog CECBs that they're running "NewsHour" in proper 16:9 on 49.1 tonight.


It could be HD, but it's hard to tell on this small set in the kitchen







My LCD upstairs is being fed by Time Warner Cable's SA8000HD DVR, and we don't get WEAO-DT/HD here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/14999630
> 
> 
> I can't tell, since I am not set up to get WEAO in HD right now, but it looks from my analog CECBs that they're running "NewsHour" in proper 16:9 on 49.1 tonight.
> 
> 
> It could be HD, but it's hard to tell on this small set in the kitchen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My LCD upstairs is being fed by Time Warner Cable's SA8000HD DVR, and we don't get WEAO-DT/HD here.



Right now Antiques roadshow is on both stations in 4:3. But I don't think that one has ever been HD. Frontline is on at 9, I'll have to check that one. Also, I noticed WNEO-DT is now broadcasting 2.0, no more 5.1







. What's the point of even having this channel HD? Especially if they plan on lighting up more MC services, they might as well make 45-1 480i(they already downrezzed it to 720p).


All I can say is what a mess. Some things stretched, some OAR and no HD. Seems like this DTV transition is making things worse


----------



## nickdawg

Frontline is on now in correct 16x9 on WNEO-DT.


----------



## jgardella

I was wondering if anyone was knowledgeable enough to help with antenna selection for ota hdtv. I live in sheffield lake and have an old antenna that is falling apart. I need to replace it. Plus I need to inprove the reception also. Get 5,8,43, and 61 well. 19,3,55, and 25 give me problems. One story house. I'm not sure what type to buy. Thanks

Jerry


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgardella* /forum/post/15002404
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was knowledgeable enough to help with antenna selection for ota hdtv. I live in sheffield lake and have an old antenna that is falling apart. I need to replace it. Plus I need to inprove the reception also. Get 5,8,43, and 61 well. 19,3,55, and 25 give me problems. One story house. I'm not sure what type to buy. Thanks
> 
> Jerry



I'd start with www.antennaweb.org , type in your address, see what it says.


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgardella* /forum/post/15002404
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was knowledgeable enough to help with antenna selection for ota hdtv. I live in sheffield lake and have an old antenna that is falling apart. I need to replace it. Plus I need to inprove the reception also. Get 5,8,43, and 61 well. 19,3,55, and 25 give me problems. One story house. I'm not sure what type to buy. Thanks
> 
> Jerry



Since you are not too far from the antenna farm, antennaweb will probably reccommend a short to medium range antenna. What you can also consider is an amplified antenna. This can improve the reception. Both Winegard and Channelmaster make a wide variety of antennae sold at Radio Shack, Lowe's, Home Depot. Do not buy an omni directional. A rotor may come in handy too if you want to try to get other areas.


----------



## paule123

Over in the U-Verse thread they are reporting that 30 new HD channels were added today, including FSN Ohio HD and STO HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15004714


----------



## JJkizak

MCM Electronics also has antennas. My guru buddy who lives in Sheffield Lake says OTA is a problem. I would use the biggest baddest antenna available as they are only $90.00.

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15004915
> 
> 
> MCM Electronics also has antennas. My guru buddy who lives in Sheffield Lake says OTA is a problem. I would use the biggest baddest antenna available as they are only $90.00.
> 
> JJK



OTA may be a problem due to terrain, in which case "the biggest baddest antenna" won't help. However height will help! You may need a modest antenna mounted on a tower to get over the terrain obstructions.


----------



## dj9

From 7:01 to 7:05, a ticker on the bottom of WKYCDT (currently showing NBC News election coverage) had this message:

WE ARE HAVING AUDIO DIFFICULTIES ON OUR WKYC HD FEED. PLEASE TUNE TO YOUR REGULAR CHANNEL 3 WKYC FEED ON CABLE, SATELLITE, OR OVER THE AIR...


Everything sounded OK to me...


At 7:05 the message changed to:

THE TRANSITION FROM ANALOG TO DIGITAL TELEVISION WILL OCCUR FEBRUARY 17, 2009. ARE YOU READY? GO TO WWW.WKYC.COM/DTV OR CALL 1-888-DTV-2009 FOR MORE INFORMATION


This message didn't show up on WKYC analog.


By 7:06 the message is gone...


7:14 - the audio message is back...


----------



## Smarty-pants

I was watching KYC for a while, but had to turn the sound ALL THE WAY UP on my tv to hear it. The volume was at 100, but I normally watch at a volume of 35-40.


----------



## Coin Ops

We just lost WKYC 3.1 on QAM on TWC. One minute it was there, the next minute it froze and then disappeared....


----------



## dj9

I'm experiencing all kinds of glitches now on WKYCDT via TWC (or my TV is breaking...) The screen has been going black completely for 1/4 sec or so.

sounds ha been going out for .5-5 seconds at a time. When they cut to local broadcast, there was no audio at all on WKYCDT (but they did have 1080i graphics...)


Also, after lots of motion, the picture gets blurry for a short while...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/15006484
> 
> 
> From 7:01 to 7:05, a ticker on the bottom of WKYCDT (currently showing NBC News election coverage) had this message:
> 
> WE ARE HAVING AUDIO DIFFICULTIES ON OUR WKYC HD FEED. PLEASE TUNE TO YOUR REGULAR CHANNEL 3 WKYC FEED ON CABLE, SATELLITE, OR OVER THE AIR...
> 
> 
> Everything sounded OK to me...
> 
> 
> At 7:05 the message changed to:
> 
> THE TRANSITION FROM ANALOG TO DIGITAL TELEVISION WILL OCCUR FEBRUARY 17, 2009. ARE YOU READY? GO TO WWW.WKYC.COM/DTV OR CALL 1-888-DTV-2009 FOR MORE INFORMATION
> 
> 
> This message didn't show up on WKYC analog.
> 
> 
> By 7:06 the message is gone...
> 
> 
> 7:14 - the audio message is back...



haha!!














One minute they're saying the audio doesn't work on WKYC DT, then they're ask us if we're ready for the transition? When THEY are not ready for it!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Coin Ops* /forum/post/15006903
> 
> 
> We just lost WKYC 3.1 on QAM on TWC. One minute it was there, the next minute it froze and then disappeared....



They do that because they want you to buy a box.










TW and all cable companies are evil.


----------



## nickdawg

WKYC must have had a serious meltdown b/c they're now passing Dolby 2/0 audio.


Honestly I hope they keep it in 2/0. This is the best WKYC has sounded in a long time. Since it is being passed 2-channel from the source, Pro Logic works and I am getting audio out of the center channel.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Indeed Nick. I have been watching it for the past 30 minutes or so, and didn't even notice it being 2 channel. My receiver automatically mixes the sound into a nice THX DSP, and it does sound good as is.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15008038
> 
> 
> Indeed Nick. I have been watching it for the past 30 minutes or so, and didn't even notice it being 2 channel. My receiver automatically mixes the sound into a nice THX DSP, and it does sound good as is.



WKYC usually uses an incorrect false-tagged 3/2.1 which only uses the L and R channels. There's no way to change that since it thinks a 5.1 source is present. The current set up sounds better and I'd guess even network programming may sound better. NBC's 5.1 isn't as good as CBS or ABC.


----------



## ErieMarty

Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.


WKYC HD, WKYC Weather Plus, WAOH, WIVM, WOHZ, WKBN, WYFX, WYTV, WTRF, Starz/Encore, Lifeskool On Demand, Sleuth, Universal HD, USA, Great American Country, Flix, GSN, Showtime/ The Movie Channel, Oxygen On Demand, BBC America On Demand, Inspirational Life, Fuel TV, Sci-Fi Channel, Outdoor Channel, NHL Network, NBA TV.


MOJO will be dropped from the line-up on December 1, 2008, and replaced with MGM HD. Effective December 8, 2008, Outdoor Channel will be available on both the Digital Basic Tier and Digital Sports Tier. In suburban Erie, Outdoor Channel will move from Digital Plus Tier down to Digital Basic Tier.



* Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dj9* /forum/post/15006484
> 
> 
> From 7:01 to 7:05, a ticker on the bottom of WKYCDT (currently showing NBC News election coverage) had this message:
> 
> WE ARE HAVING AUDIO DIFFICULTIES ON OUR WKYC HD FEED. PLEASE TUNE TO YOUR REGULAR CHANNEL 3 WKYC FEED ON CABLE, SATELLITE, OR OVER THE AIR...
> 
> 
> Everything sounded OK to me...
> 
> 
> At 7:05 the message changed to:
> 
> THE TRANSITION FROM ANALOG TO DIGITAL TELEVISION WILL OCCUR FEBRUARY 17, 2009. ARE YOU READY? GO TO WWW.WKYC.COM/DTV OR CALL 1-888-DTV-2009 FOR MORE INFORMATION
> 
> 
> This message didn't show up on WKYC analog.
> 
> 
> By 7:06 the message is gone...
> 
> 
> 7:14 - the audio message is back...



This is interesting. I was watching WEWS on TWC and at approx. 7:00 PM, they started having intermittent hits in both video and audio.. it became so bad that we switched to analog. It eventually cleared up. At approx. 10:30, the entire signal just went away... picture froze then to black. It came back in 10 seconds or so. ABC was also having issues with their remotes... video but no audio throughout the night. Sometimes I wonder why they move into a new studio and try to do all of this complicated interconnections in an under-tested facility.


----------



## nickdawg

All of them worked OK last night. WEWS and WKYC had audio drop out earlier in the day, but during election coverage everything looked fine.


----------



## mmadd29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15004915
> 
> 
> MCM Electronics also has antennas. My guru buddy who lives in Sheffield Lake says OTA is a problem. I would use the biggest baddest antenna available as they are only $90.00.
> 
> JJK



What is the problem with OTA in Sheffield Lake?


I'm able to get all the digital Cleveland and Toledo stations, and some of the Detroit. I get a ton of analog Canadian stations. This is all without any preamp, and a $50 antenna


----------



## JJkizak

mmadd29:

I don't know. I was just repeating what he said. He had satellite then switched to Time/Warnercable/phone/internet with the fibreoptic cable to the house.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15016564
> 
> 
> mmadd29:
> 
> I don't know. I was just repeating what he said. He had satellite then switched to Time/Warnercable/phone/internet with the fibreoptic cable to the house.
> 
> JJK



TWC uses fibre optic to the house???


----------



## JJkizak

Yes, He says they insist on it. They will not use the old phone lines. I believe his DSL is 7 megs. They also check your 120volt receptacles for the proper grounds (no loops) and tell you if it isn't right to have it fixed. They will not install until the grounds are fixed.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15017655
> 
> 
> Yes, He says they insist on it. They will not use the old phone lines.
> 
> JJK



I'd guess he means VOIP service cannot go over the old phone lines.

VOIP Phone, High Speed Internet, Digital Cable TV service are all on one feed (which is how they can "bundle" these services), but it's still a copper cable.


I may be wrong but I just find it highly unlikely any local NEO cable co. has actual fiber optic from the local home service station right up to the house.







Also, if it were truly fiper optic why would he still have DSL which is also copper cable?


Residences in DT Manhattan don't have direct fiber optic yet.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Cable has been using fiber optic lines for years, but not to the home. Here in COX territory they have fiber to coax converters strategically placed to feed neighborhoods.


----------



## JJkizak

All I know is he told me they ran a special optical fibre cable to the house. I don't know what you call his intenet connection but I call everything DSL. His old phone line is not in use. Also the person who did the install was a pretty high mucky-muck and is his best friend.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15018930
> 
> 
> Cable has been using fiber optic lines for years, but not to the home. Here in COX territory they have fiber to coax converters strategically placed to feed neighborhoods.



Yes, that I am aware of. At some point in the system, using internet or even old landline phones, there is a very good chance we are using fiber optic. But no actual fiber optic to the home/residence in this area.


I know some big office complex buildings (but very few) have direct fiber optic. I think there *may* be a very small residential test of fiber optic in TX somewhere.


----------



## burgher

Hey folks, general question here. I'm advising a friend on a tv purchase. I DO know my tvs but am not too hip to this qam tuner/cable thing. Hes in Lorain and has the basic/lifeline TW service. What digital channels will he be able to decode? Anything? Anybody know??

Thanks


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15019184
> 
> 
> All I know is he told me they ran a special optical fibre cable to the house. I don't know what you call his intenet connection but I call everything DSL. His old phone line is not in use. Also the person who did the install was a pretty high mucky-muck and is his best friend.
> 
> JJK



I'm only asking cuz it intrigues me, I'm not trying to challenge you.









I'd love to hear that residential fiber optic is in use in NEO. That would be incredible.


I think if there were true residential fiber optic to the actual home there would be much more fan fare about it and the media would be all over it.


Most installs of the new cable bundle offerings (VOIP Phone, High Speed Internet, Digital Cable) does require a new cable feed to the home, just as they did in my yard.









It's just a bigger, thicker, better shielded copper cable designed for better bandwidth usage and less signal bleed.


DSL does require line testing as you must be within xx distance of the phone line hub or else the DSL becomes unstable. This may well be the testing that your buddy had completed by the DSL provider or an independent contractor hired by the DSL provider. Whether this involves electrical ground testing I dunno. But again, it's a copper cable.










EDIT: Looks like your buddy may well have fiber optic if he uses the FiOS system. I thought the FiOS was an expanded version of the cable bundle technology. Interesting.............


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/15019293
> 
> 
> Hey folks, general question here. I'm advising a friend on a tv purchase. I DO know my tvs but am not too hip to this qam tuner/cable thing. Hes in Lorain and has the basic/lifeline TW service. What digital channels will he be able to decode? Anything? Anybody know??
> 
> Thanks



Very basic intro to QAM:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=14993 


What actual QAM ch's are on TWC in Lorain I do not know.


----------



## burgher

Thanks toby thats a start. He'll at least have locals from what I saw in the link. But, they'll move around ???


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/15019522
> 
> 
> Thanks toby thats a start. He'll at least have locals from what I saw in the link. But, they'll move around ???



They may or may not move around. He may well get full program data or none at all. It varies from system to system and region to region.

Generally they make QAM as basic as they are allowed to as an incentive to subscribe and rent a box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/15019293
> 
> 
> Hey folks, general question here. I'm advising a friend on a tv purchase. I DO know my tvs but am not too hip to this qam tuner/cable thing. Hes in Lorain and has the basic/lifeline TW service. What digital channels will he be able to decode? Anything? Anybody know??
> 
> Thanks



Just tell him to get off his wallet and get an HDTV cable box. In the long run, he'll be happier. "clear" QAM is a PITA even for tech savvy AVS members, with the adding and dropping of services plus moving channels. With a box, you have a set lineup, a program guide and better PQ on SD channels.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15019972
> 
> 
> Just tell him to get off his wallet and get an HDTV cable box. In the long run, he'll be happier. "clear" QAM is a PITA even for tech savvy AVS members, with the adding and dropping of services plus moving channels. With a box, you have a set lineup, a program guide and better PQ on SD channels.



Yup.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15019265
> 
> 
> Yes, that I am aware of. At some point in the system, using internet or even old landline phones, there is a very good chance we are using fiber optic. But no actual fiber optic to the home/residence in this area.
> 
> 
> I know some big office complex buildings (but very few) have direct fiber optic. I think there *may* be a very small residential test of fiber optic in TX somewhere.



Yes, it's fiber to the neighborhood node, then co-ax for the last part of the leg that feeds the home. It's entirely possible that the neighborhood's fiber node is located on the pole outside of his home, but it's copper from there to the house.


All of the major MSOs offer direct fiber connections for medium-to-large businesses; that's an entirely different market segment and usually includes veri high speed data, voice and video services.


----------



## nickdawg

The QAM and analog-only tier is crap. Seriously. I wouldn't pay $5 for it. You'd get a much better product and result to invest in OTA by getting a good antenna. The OTA HD and SD digital PQ blows analog cable out of the water. Especially when you're using a high-resolution screen like an HDTV, it looks really, really bad. It should be a crime that they make people pay for that.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Nick, what are you talking about? QAM *IS* digital. It's the same pic everyone else gets who subscribes to TW HD.

I only subscribe to TW analog Lifeline Basic package (no digital, no HD), BUT, via QAM I get all of my local channels in HIGH DEFINITION when available.

Of course you have to have a proper QAM tuner and an HDTV to take advantage of it.


----------



## ErieMarty

TV..whats up with that.


says no signal.......and no BROWNS game


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15020356
> 
> 
> Nick, what are you talking about? QAM *IS* digital. It's the same pic everyone else gets who subscribes to TW HD.
> 
> I only subscribe to TW analog Lifeline Basic package (no digital, no HD), BUT, via QAM I get all of my local channels in HIGH DEFINITION when available.
> 
> Of course you have to have a proper QAM tuner and an HDTV to take advantage of it.



I'm talking about the analog channels. You don't get EVERY channel in digital(like ESPN, USA, TNT, CNN, MSNBC, F/X). Only the local channels are HD and there are a few odd digital channels. With my box, EVERY channel is digital. Even SD locals and cable channels.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15020758
> 
> 
> I'm talking about the analog channels. You don't get EVERY channel in digital(like ESPN, USA, TNT, CNN, MSNBC, F/X). Only the local channels are HD and there are a few odd digital channels. With my box, EVERY channel is digital. Even SD locals and cable channels.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15020207
> 
> 
> The QAM and analog-only tier is crap. Seriously. I wouldn't pay $5 for it. You'd get a much better product and result to invest in OTA by getting a good antenna. The OTA HD and SD digital PQ blows analog cable out of the water. Especially when you're using a high-resolution screen like an HDTV, it looks really, really bad. It should be a crime that they make people pay for that.



This is what I am referring to Nick... where you say QAM is crap. QAM is NOT crap. It is the same as what is on your cable box, all digital. Some are SD and some are hd when applicable, but all QAM channels ARE digital. There is no such thing as "analog qam".


----------



## Smarty-pants

To add to my statements, I agree... analog IS crap







.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15020844
> 
> 
> This is what I am referring to Nick... where you say QAM is crap. QAM is NOT crap. It is the same as what is on your cable box, all digital. Some are SD and some are hd when applicable, but all QAM channels ARE digital. There is no such thing as "analog qam".



That's what I mean. Unless they are going to pass ALL of the channels that are analog in digital, it's not worth it for the few digital channels. If that basic service price was for EVERY channel in digital QAM, then it would be a better value. No way would I actually pay for anything analog anymore. THAT should be the crime. Forcing people to pay for an obsolete, outdated format that has been abandoned by OTA broadcasters.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15021011
> 
> 
> That's what I mean. Unless they are going to pass ALL of the channels that are analog in digital, it's not worth it for the few digital channels. If that basic service price was for EVERY channel in digital QAM, then it would be a better value. No way would I actually pay for anything analog anymore. THAT should be the crime. Forcing people to pay for an obsolete, outdated format that has been abandoned by OTA broadcasters.



I agree. We only watch some stuff here and there on the analog channels. Most of our viewing is on the QAM channels. For us, it's worth the $13/month they charge for the service. If/when we decide we want the "full boat" of accessable channels, it sure as hell won't be Time Warner














.


----------



## nickdawg

It worked!!! Hookbill's letter to WBNX actually made them fix the audio. I recorded SuperNatural tonight and heard something out the rear for the first time.


----------



## ErieMarty

anyone getting them from Time Warner ????


they were out all last night...and this morning


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15022346
> 
> 
> anyone getting them from Time Warner ????
> 
> 
> they were out all last night...and this morning



I watched the game (in HD) just fine vis T-W in Solon. You're in Erie, right? Are you on the city or Millcreek (former Adelphia) system? My in-laws moved to the Regency last spring (city system) and I was surprised that all of the Cleveland OTA HD channels were available in the clear via QAM. The only local HD broadcast was from WQLN (PBS) and FOX-66 until a couple months ago when WICU-12 showed up in their line-up. ABC and CBS HD was not available locally and the GM of WSEE-35 had gone on record saying that his station would never go HD, just digital.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15022495
> 
> 
> I watched the game (in HD) just fine vis T-W in Solon. You're in Erie, right? Are you on the city or Millcreek (former Adelphia) system? My in-laws moved to the Regency last spring (city system) and I was surprised that all of the Cleveland OTA HD channels were available in the clear via QAM. The only local HD broadcast was from WQLN (PBS) and FOX-66 until a couple months ago when WICU-12 showed up in their line-up. ABC and CBS HD was not available locally and the GM of WSEE-35 had gone on record saying that his station would never go HD, just digital.




all the local channels are in HD right now except for ABC...and available on Time Warner HD channel lineup


and you are right..we are able to get all the cleveland HD channels along with 3.2 and 19.2 the 24/7 cleveland weather channel.(if you live in the city..county area can't)


but last night 19.1 and 43.1 said no signal when I went to look for the brown game..


but county has channel 43 part of their lineup and they got the game..


just wondered what happened to 19.1 and 43.1 last night


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15022711
> 
> 
> but last night 19.1 and 43.1 said no signal when I went to look for the brown game..
> 
> 
> but county has channel 43 part of their lineup and they got the game..
> 
> 
> just wondered what happened to 19.1 and 43.1 last night



Maybe your 43.1 got cut off with some kind of weird NFL Network blackout thing... and with 43.1 and 19.1 both being Raycom stations, who knows...


----------



## nickdawg

That's your problem. Get a HD cable box. 19 and 43 worked fine last night. So did all other channels.


----------



## SteveC

Just FYI, 43.1 had the Browns game last night in HD via OTA. They were simply rebroadcasting the game from the NFL HD channel. If you could not get it via your cable company it was probably either an issue with your equipment or the cable company. No problem via OTA.


----------



## SteveC

A friend of mine had AT&T's UVerse installed a while back. He told me they ran fiber optic to the side of his house but used coax for all the connections inside the house. He got the whole bundle which included the multi megabyte internet connection and the digital phone. The guy that described the fiber installation a few posts back reminded me of my friends setup. I too have never heard of Time Warner running fiber up to the house. It would be nice if that poster(JJkizak) could verify whether it actually was Time Warner or the more likely FiOS or UVerse.


----------



## JJkizak

I will check with my guru buddy when he comes back from vacation about all of the details. He did say they were very fussy about the install.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/15019293
> 
> 
> Hey folks, general question here. I'm advising a friend on a tv purchase. I DO know my tvs but am not too hip to this qam tuner/cable thing. Hes in Lorain and has the basic/lifeline TW service. What digital channels will he be able to decode? Anything? Anybody know??
> 
> Thanks



I took a look and there is not a heck of a lot of them. Mostly shopping, music and local HD. YMMV


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> __________________
> 
> Proud Owner of the TiVo S3 and TiVo HD
> 
> SA 8300? Don't make me laugh!!!!
> 
> Proud Flock Leader of 10 Parrots
> 
> MY NAME IS NOT BILL (but you can call me hook)



Hey Hookbill, you forgot to add that new SA box to your "inventory"!!


Quit laughing at SA boxes, you have one now!!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15027747
> 
> 
> I took a look and there is not a heck of a lot of them. Mostly shopping, music and local HD. YMMV



And often times you don't even get that much. At least over in this neck of the woods, all I've ever been able to pick up are just a couple local HD channels (a few I couldn't ever pick up), none of the music channles (which I was hoping for really), no VOD feeds that I could find even when triggering them on my own SA box, and the PPV/VOD preview feeds. No shopping channels I could find. And Discovery HD theater showed up when it felt like it.


But yes, YMMV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15022101
> 
> 
> It worked!!! Hookbill's letter to WBNX actually made them fix the audio. I recorded SuperNatural tonight and heard something out the rear for the first time.



The only downside is it appears they're following the lead of WKYC and doing that awful "flag as 3/2.1 yet pass 2/0" where only front L and R channels work and Pro Logic is useless since the receiver thinks it is getting true 5.1 sound. But I guess it's not as bad as WOIO/WUAB's FAKE UPCONVERT 5.1 sound. That is absolutely atrocious.


WBNX is really getting ti right this week. Watching "Jury Duty" now I noticed there is no WBNX bug on screen. Nice work, WBNX!!! Just get HD recording equipment and I think I'll have a new favorite channel. And they'll be better than WOIO/WUAB will ever be.


Can anyone say CBS 55!!!!


----------



## nickdawg

Are we ever going to see a 24/7 programming on the two FSN HD channels TWC has? I remember reading something that FSN was going to start sending programming for it, but all I see on 436 and 437 is a blank screen.


What I'd like to see is something like STO or ESPN where even if the program isn't HD, they're showing it in SD digital on the HD channel. FSN SD channel is not that good looking so a digital alternative would be nice. I see they also added a simulcast of FSN on 310 and the PQ is night and day better than the PQ on 309.


I get the feeling 309 is an analog upconvert and 310 is true digital.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15028665
> 
> 
> The only downside is it appears they're following the lead of WKYC and doing that awful "flag as 3/2.1 yet pass 2/0" where only front L and R channels work and Pro Logic is useless since the receiver thinks it is getting true 5.1 sound. But I guess it's not as bad as WOIO/WUAB's FAKE UPCONVERT 5.1 sound. That is absolutely atrocious.
> 
> 
> WBNX is really getting ti right this week. Watching "Jury Duty" now I noticed there is no WBNX bug on screen. Nice work, WBNX!!! Just get HD recording equipment and I think I'll have a new favorite channel. And they'll be better than WOIO/WUAB will ever be.
> 
> 
> Can anyone say CBS 55!!!!



I didn't see your original post but just keep in mind the power of the beak. 100 pounds per square inch, on my Macaw!


Of course they fixed it. The power of hook does it again!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15028603
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, you forgot to add that new SA box to your "inventory"!!
> 
> 
> Quit laughing at SA boxes, you have one now!!



I don't own it, my wife does and it's not a DVR. I stand by what I say about the SA 8300. The SARA is there because of someone else insisting that I add it as I wasn't including passport. Which probably sucks too, compared to TiVo.


----------



## JJkizak

I asked my Twinsburg Uncle (Time/Warner cable/phone/internet package) if they ran an optical cable to his house and he said "he thinks they did" but not sure.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15029360
> 
> 
> I asked my Twinsburg Uncle (Time/Warner cable/phone/internet package) if they ran an optical cable to his house and he said "he thinks they did" but not sure.
> 
> JJK



Ask him to look at the cable coming into the house at the grounding block on the outside. Look for "RG-6" printed on it somewhere. Also look at the grouinding block itself and note the f-connectors.


----------



## Inundated

About QAM lineups...


Remmeber, underneath, Time Warner's local systems are still separate when it comes to QAM channels. The OP's friend is in Lorain, which is part of the old Comcast system. I'm with the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, as is hookbill, and nickdawg and some of the others are on the "legacy" Time Warner system out of Akron.


From what I've read, the "legacy" folks get some odd channels, like QAM versions of the LPTVers on digital cable (WIVM, etc.) far from their original homes. The "legacy" folks on TWC's system in the city of Erie PA get Cleveland HD channels on QAM, or have gotten them, while the Erie County PA folks are a former Adelphia system and don't.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15030106
> 
> 
> About QAM lineups...
> 
> 
> Remmeber, underneath, Time Warner's local systems are still separate when it comes to QAM channels. The OP's friend is in Lorain, which is part of the old Comcast system. I'm with the former Adelphia/Cleveland system, as is hookbill, and nickdawg and some of the others are on the "legacy" Time Warner system out of Akron.
> 
> 
> From what I've read, the "legacy" folks get some odd channels, like QAM versions of the LPTVers on digital cable (WIVM, etc.) far from their original homes. The "legacy" folks on TWC's system in the city of Erie PA get Cleveland HD channels on QAM, or have gotten them, while the Erie County PA folks are a former Adelphia system and don't.



True:

I am on the "Legacy" TWC system here in Canton, and have gotten WTOV-9 Steubenville, WTVG- 13 Toledo and WYFX-17 Youngstown (But not co-owned WKBN)..All these are gone now. I do get Canton City, North Canton, Lake and GlenOak Versions of Canton Schools Channel 11, as well as I think Green and New Franklin Public Service Channels..Along with 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, 43, 49, 52, 55, Discovery and Familyland Channel..


----------



## ErieMarty

NEW YORK (AP)Major League Baseball reached an agreement with Verizon to carry the MLB Network on FiOS, expanding the channel's launch to 50 million homes.


FiOS, available in more than eight million households in 14 states, will also carry the out-of-market Extra Innings package, MLB said Monday.


The MLB Network is set to launch Jan. 1. It will carry news, highlights and taped programming, and likely will have a live game either on Thursday or Saturday nights.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15041557
> 
> 
> NEW YORK (AP)Major League Baseball reached an agreement with Verizon to carry the MLB Network on FiOS, expanding the channel's launch to 50 million homes.
> 
> 
> FiOS, available in more than eight million households in 14 states, will also carry the out-of-market Extra Innings package, MLB said Monday.
> 
> 
> The MLB Network is set to launch Jan. 1. It will carry news, highlights and taped programming, and likely will have a live game either on Thursday or Saturday nights.



Well, it's not likely TWC will carry it, cheapskates that they are. If it is more expensive then what On Demand gave us, we will be very lucky if we get it by opening day.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, I see the GENIUSES(and I use that term sarcastically) have "fixed" the audio on WKYC DT. Fixed, relatively speaking. But they actually made the sound WORSE again by sending 3/2.1 all the time. Over the last week when the Dolby audio equipment didn't work, the SQ was much, much better because 2/0 audio was sent all the time. And with 2/0 audio, the Pro Logic settings on my AV receiver worked, giving sound out of the center channel. Watching "Rachel Ray" today I had to crank the volume level up to around 50 because the sound out of the L/R channels is low. And it's incorrect. With non-5.1 programming, the viewer should have the option to either take the two channel stereo or use one of the PL settings to "simulate" surround sound. WJW-DT does this correctly, only sending 3/2.1 on NETWORK programming. I noticed WBNX does the exact same thing. There's only surround sound on network programming but regular programmming claims to be 3/2.1 but I only get audio out of the L/R channels.


Yeah, the WKYC DT audio was so awful I actually switched back to WKYC SD, which I get in Dolby 2/0.


I'll have to wait and see how network programming sounds. Watching Law & Order and The Office and other shows on Thursday I noticed the sound was actually BETTER in 2/0!! I actually heard something out of the rear, which is usually very LOW on NBC HD. Who knows, I may stop watching NBC HD and start watching NBC SD again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15042771
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the WKYC DT audio was so awful I actually switched back to WKYC SD, which I get in Dolby 2/0.
> 
> 
> I'll have to wait and see how network programming sounds. Watching Law & Order and The Office and other shows on Thursday I noticed the sound was actually BETTER in 2/0!! I actually heard something out of the rear, which is usually very LOW on NBC HD. Who knows, I may stop watching NBC HD and start watching NBC SD again.



Law & Order, for whatever reason has never been great in Dolby 5.1. As far as watching SD over HD, your DVR can change the sound to PCM so you don't have to put up with that if you want.


Personally I think the upgraded digital stations arn't much better then the analog ones.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15043880
> 
> 
> Law & Order, for whatever reason has never been great in Dolby 5.1. As far as watching SD over HD, your DVR can change the sound to PCM so you don't have to put up with that if you want.
> 
> 
> Personally I think the upgraded digital stations arn't much better then the analog ones.



I was going to comment that PCM is actually better(IMO) than even 2/0. Whenever TWC sends an EAS test through, they come through in PCM 48. And after the test, the 8300HD stays in PCM 48 until the box reboots. I noticed that SD channels that are usually 2/0 sounded better. Also, some of the low-rent digital channels that usually suffer from low audio were louder on less volume level. WKYC sounded better, since PL kicked in. Other channels actually sounded worse though. WOIO CBS sounded AWFUL. The way CBS encodes their digital audio it sounds like crap when forced to two channel(remember how CBS programming on WOIO sounded before they added 5.1?).

---------------------------------------------------

Tonight's Jay Leno sounded horrible. Again, just L and R channels only(which is the way it has been in the past). Guess it's back to WKYC SD again. The sound is much, much better there. PQ not so much, but I'll get over it.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg since you brought it up the other day about me having a box with SARA on it my wife called me in to look at the channel she was watching. She said it was "kind of coming in" and said I should complain to TW.


So I go to my TiVo HD and put on this shopping channel, comes in clear as can be.


I rebooted her box and that fixed the issue.


This kind of surprises me about her. She is very computer literate she has a bachelors degree in computers. But she can't get any of this video stuff, I get the deer in the headlights look from her.


And everyone knows, or at least should know that if you are having a problem with a computer the first thing you do is reboot. But even though she works with Unix devices TiVo, DVR, Digital television, HD.....She doesn't get it.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15044424
> 
> 
> And everyone knows, or at least should know that if you are having a problem with a computer the first thing you do is reboot. But even though she works with Unix devices TiVo, DVR, Digital television, HD.....She doesn't get it.



I must laugh at this comment... As a die-hard UNIX geek, rebooting a system is (for me) a last resort to be done if nothing else works.


Gotta love Windows - the only OS conceived that makes you reboot after changing the desktop background color.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15042473
> 
> 
> Well, it's not likely TWC will carry it, cheapskates that they are. If it is more expensive then what On Demand gave us, we will be very lucky if we get it by opening day.



Actually, TWC is one of three big cable MSOs that are actually partners in the MLB Network...so I'd be shocked if you didn't see it pop up on or shortly after January 1st (at least on SD digital, HD mileage may vary).


----------



## ErieMarty

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652328 


found it kinda interesting....


----------



## lefkas

Some quick questions:


Is WBNX-HD-Channel 55 available on TWC QAM in North Canton ? I can get all the other Cleveland locals in HD but never WBNX.


I heard Channel 3 is increasing its power and going to broadcast in UHF after the digital conversion. Any truth to that ? Would like to get it OTA in HD sometime.


----------



## Smarty-pants

lefkas, WBNX-HD is on channel 78.3 for me here on the east side North Canton.

They have mapped all of the local channels correctly several months ago, however for some reason WBNX has not gotten mapped to 55.1 yet.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/15050404
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Channel 3 is increasing its power and going to broadcast in UHF after the digital conversion. Any truth to that ? Would like to get it OTA in HD sometime.



WKYC is moving to channel 17(former home of WDLI-moving to 39) after February 17. Also, like WVIZ, they're supposed to increase their power and the new position will be easier to get than VHF 2.


VHF 2 is just cruel. I always had the feeling that someone at the FCC was "out to get" WKYC and screw them royally by giving them that position.


Now if only Raycheap's WOIO would apply for a re-location to get off channel 10. I doubt that will happen because I think they actually _like_ having to operate at lower power because it's another way to save money.


But having WOIO over on UHF would be nice, no need for a VHF antenna or worrying about picking up those channels in Cleveland at all!


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15050659
> 
> 
> 
> But having WOIO over on UHF would be nice, no need for a VHF antenna or worrying about picking up those channels in Cleveland at all!



WJW is moving its digital transmission to channel 8 during the transition. You'll still need a high band VHF antenna for it if WOIO were to move to a UHF frequency.


----------



## hookbill

Seriously, they are going to pre-empt Prison Break and Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles for the friggin Browns.


You got to be kidding me. They better be showing them some other time during the night or week. This really pisses me off.


----------



## donjjones

Question for you guys - if I drop my package down to just RoadRunner (I have 2 SA's running SARA right now in Macedonia) will I be able to still tune in the QAM channels or do they filter it? We used to have Navigator in Stow and it's so much better than the crap we have now. Makes me want to build a Myth box. My wife is actually willing to move to dtv but I don't want locked into the contract


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donjjones* /forum/post/15052571
> 
> 
> Question for you guys - if I drop my package down to just RoadRunner (I have 2 SA's running SARA right now in Macedonia) will I be able to still tune in the QAM channels or do they filter it? We used to have Navigator in Stow and it's so much better than the crap we have now. Makes me want to build a Myth box. My wife is actually willing to move to dtv but I don't want locked into the contract



to pick up channels 19.1 and 43.1 using QAM...since Thursday night


3.1, 5.1 and 8.1 still come in...


not sure whats going on..


what funny is that I get 19.2 the 24/7 channel 19 weather channel..but when I punch in 19.1 it said no channel found


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/15052057
> 
> 
> WJW is moving its digital transmission to channel 8 during the transition. You'll still need a high band VHF antenna for it if WOIO were to move to a UHF frequency.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15052133
> 
> 
> Seriously, they are going to pre-empt Prison Break and Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles for the friggin Browns.
> 
> 
> You got to be kidding me. They better be showing them some other time during the night or week. This really pisses me off.



Exactly the reason why I stand by my earlier statement. I'd rather dump *WJW* and *WOIO* on VHF and instead get WKBN-DT. At least with WKBN-DT you get a superior CBS affiliate _and_ a FOX channel on 87-2(WYFX).


For me it would be worth it. I only watch FOX three days a week(the cartoons on Sunday, Prison Break on Monday and House on Tuesday). I NEVER watch their news(and it would be nice to not have to see those bulls... "FOX 8" news promos. Same goes for WOIO. To not have to see all the ridiculous "action news" promos would be nice also.


I cannot believe they dumped PB for the Cleveland Clowns.


No need to worry about those JACKASSES at WJW rebroadcasting it. I'll watch it ONLINE.

http://www.hulu.com/prison-break


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15053621
> 
> 
> At least with WKBN-DT you get a superior CBS affiliate _and_ a FOX channel on 87-2(WYFX).



Uh, no thanks. I don't want my NFL on Fox and NFL on CBS stuffed into one 19Mbps channel. I can't imagine what that looks like on gameday when both channels have a game on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15053621
> 
> 
> I cannot believe they dumped PB for the Cleveland Clowns.
> 
> 
> No need to worry about those JACKASSES at WJW rebroadcasting it. I'll watch it ONLINE.
> 
> http://www.hulu.com/prison-break



Not me. I intend to download it on Tuesday in full HD and watch it on my TiVo!


Sometimes when they pull this stuff, BT is your friend.


BTW I didn't say that as a TiVo vs SA thing, it's just something I can do. In the old days with SA I would download burn to DVD and watch so my wife could watch too but it wouldn't be in HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15053737
> 
> 
> Uh, no thanks. I don't want my NFL on Fox and NFL on CBS stuffed into one 19Mbps channel. I can't imagine what that looks like on gameday when both channels have a game on.



Actually the CBS games on WKBN-DT look fine, FOX via 27.2 OTOH not so much.


I read on another forum that there are stations in smaller markets actually getting 2 HD feeds on the same channel at the same time and claim it looks good.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15057790
> 
> 
> I read on another forum that there are stations in smaller markets actually getting 2 HD feeds on the same channel at the same time and claim it looks good.



Were these forums for the blind? I've heard nothing but complaints from anywhere with a two-HD setup like that.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15055012
> 
> 
> Not me. I intend to download it on Tuesday in full HD and watch it on my TiVo!
> 
> 
> Sometimes when they pull this stuff, BT is your friend.
> 
> 
> BTW I didn't say that as a TiVo vs SA thing, it's just something I can do. In the old days with SA I would download burn to DVD and watch so my wife could watch too but it wouldn't be in HD.



BT is my new BFF!!!







I downloaded last week's prison break to check it out and last week's CSI NY. The PB episode was great. From a Canadian TV network. No popup crap, just a bug and a TV rating. Same with CSI:NY. It was from CBS, yet there wasn't an ad(that I saw, didn't watch the entire episode yet).


This may be part of the new way I watch TV. Even without a fancy Tivo






































































I can still plug in the computer to the TV and watch these HDTV shows in 1280x720 widescreen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15061244
> 
> 
> BT is my new BFF!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I downloaded last week's prison break to check it out and last week's CSI NY. The PB episode was great. From a Canadian TV network. No popup crap, just a bug and a TV rating. Same with CSI:NY. It was from CBS, yet there wasn't an ad(that I saw, didn't watch the entire episode yet).
> 
> 
> This may be part of the new way I watch TV. Even without a fancy Tivo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can still plug in the computer to the TV and watch these HDTV shows in 1280x720 widescreen.



Very true......but do you have Dolby 5.1 and at least a 37" screen?


My new computer has a 26 inch screen and is HD capable BTW. Birthday present from the wife.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15061310
> 
> 
> Very true......but do you have Dolby 5.1 and at least a 37" screen?
> 
> 
> My new computer has a 26 inch screen and is HD capable BTW. Birthday present from the wife.



I have a 50 inch TV that I can plug it into. I don't have 5.1 from the computer, but as I learned from WKYC and several other local stations, 5.1 isn't necessarily better. No way I'd watch it on my 15 inch 4x3 monitor. As a consequence of HDTV, the videos are letterboxed, which I hate as it makes an already small screen even smaller. But








on the large TV, it looked great. Better than SDTV digital cable!!!


----------



## mnowlin

I finally jumped into watching Lost starting in season 3. Quickly got hooked on it, so I BT'd Seasons 1/2 while recording S3 on my TiVo. I set up a thing on my Linux box to send the HD BT's to the Tivo - over a few weeks, I enjoyed the first two seasons on my 50", then caught up on current recorded shows...


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15061822
> 
> 
> I finally jumped into watching Lost starting in season 3. Quickly got hooked on it, so I BT'd Seasons 1/2 while recording S3 on my TiVo. I set up a thing on my Linux box to send the HD BT's to the Tivo - over a few weeks, I enjoyed the first two seasons on my 50", then caught up on current recorded shows...



Great show isn't it? Too bad we only get to see a handful of new episodes each season, then have to wait AN ENTIRE YEAR (







) till we get to see more. By the time the new season comes around, I forget everything that happened last season


----------



## nickdawg

I KNOW I missed a few episodes somewhere during the series. I may have to look for them on BT.


----------



## Smarty-pants

What's BT? I think you can watch old episodes on ABC.com.
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15068903
> 
> 
> Great show isn't it? Too bad we only get to see a handful of new episodes each season, then have to wait AN ENTIRE YEAR (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) till we get to see more. By the time the new season comes around, I forget everything that happened last season



You should see more this year. The writers strike affected that show last year.


----------



## JMann2380

I just moved to Stow, Oh and want to try my luck getting over the air HD. Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna? Attached is the screenshot of my available channels from antennaweb.com. It says for the digital locals I need a large directional antenna???


Thanks in advance and sorry for the newbie questions.


-Josh


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15072011
> 
> 
> I just moved to Stow, Oh and want to try my luck getting over the air HD. Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna? Attached is the screenshot of my available channels from antennaweb.com. It says for the digital locals I need a large directional antenna???
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance and sorry for the newbie questions.
> 
> 
> -Josh



If you mean the Cleveland locals, highly doubtful. I am MUCH closer to the antennas than Stow and my signals on 3 and 19 are very weak. I'm using an omni-directional amplified outdoor antenna.


You might be able to use a directional antenna in your attic if it is the aesthetics you are concerned about. You could also try a an indoor antenna and return it if you don't get much using it (which I'd guess is the case).


----------



## JMann2380




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15072155
> 
> 
> If you mean the Cleveland locals, highly doubtful. I am MUCH closer to the antennas than Stow and my signals on 3 and 19 are very weak. I'm using an omni-directional amplified outdoor antenna.
> 
> 
> You might be able to use a directional antenna in your attic if it is the aesthetics you are concerned about. You could also try a an indoor antenna and return it if you don't get much using it (which I'd guess is the case).



Well that sucks.. so much for me watching the football games on Thanksgiving. I might just have to break down and get cable


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15072434
> 
> 
> Well that sucks.. so much for me watching the football games on Thanksgiving. I might just have to break down and get cable



I'd consider satellite if I were you. Direct TV, IMHO is probably your best deal unless you want internet as well. That's with or without HD.


----------



## JMann2380




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15072880
> 
> 
> I'd consider satellite if I were you. Direct TV, IMHO is probably your best deal unless you want internet as well. That's with or without HD.



Yeh I know. Its just I don't care about all the extra channels.. all I really want is locals in HD and I don't want to pay $70 a month for those, whether it be sat or cable!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15073276
> 
> 
> Yeh I know. Its just I don't care about all the extra channels.. all I really want is locals in HD and I don't want to pay $70 a month for those, whether it be sat or cable!



If your tv has a QAM tuner, you should be able to get Time Warner's Lifeline Basic cable package.

It consists of analog channels 2-20, but on the QAM frequncy, you should be able to get all of the local stations in DT/HD. This is what I have and am very happy with it since it is all I need for tv and costs me less than $15/month.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15072880
> 
> 
> I'd consider satellite if I were you. Direct TV, IMHO is probably your best deal unless you want internet as well. That's with or without HD.



Or you want to use Tivo!










Don't worry about internet. Pricing for DSL is much better than through TWC. I pay $19.99. There's also another one for $24 and one for like $29. TWC starts at least in the $39 range or even more.


Or consider AT&T Advanced TV, Uverse. You get more HD channels than cable plus internet bundled into the price(I heard somewhere around $70 for both on one commercial). Although availability depends on your particular area.


IMO, Direc TV is crap!! You have to pay for equipment(that means you own it and are responsible for upgrades/repairs). IF there's snow on the dish, picture goes out. You have to pay for service calls and you're put in phone hell waiting when you call.


Now, now, smarty. Let's not feed the beast with more illegitimate cable.


----------



## JJkizak

Toby10:

You will need an outdoor big ass antenna. (supersized) The problem with digital is when you loose signal the video and audio drop out and you loose continuity. If you don't have mental problems prior to OTA you will after if you have viewed weak signals for 24 hrs. I believe it was added to the Geneva List of forbidden tortures. Occasionally multipath will drive you up the wall. The big ass antennas only cost about $100.00. I am pretty lucky with a 177" VHF/UHF antenna fixed as 67.1,49.1,.2 do drop out at times but all the others are in fat city, even 25.1thru.9.

JJK


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15073523
> 
> 
> Toby10:
> 
> You will need an outdoor big ass antenna. (supersized)



Like one of these, but for a house?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHj_f7IniGk


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nick* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now, now, smarty. Let's not feed the beast with more illegitimate cable.



Hey man, as soon as TW offers up Digital Cable with no STB required for less than $20/month, I'll be all over it.


----------



## Mdowlin2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15072011
> 
> 
> I just moved to Stow, Oh and want to try my luck getting over the air HD. Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna? Attached is the screenshot of my available channels from antennaweb.com. It says for the digital locals I need a large directional antenna???
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance and sorry for the newbie questions.
> 
> 
> -Josh



I think you will do just fine picking up channels with an indoor channel, they just wont all be from cleveland. I am at kent state and am using the EVGA Indtube as my tv, and using the small indoor antenna I can get the following channels:


WEWS - ABC Cleveland

WJW - FOX Cleveland

WKBN - CBS Youngstown

WFMJ - NBC Youngstown

WUAB - Mytv 43 Cleveland

WBNX - The CW Akron

WBCB - The CW Youngstown

WNEO 1 and 2 - PBS Akron


All of these I get HD with, and not much signal loss surpisingly.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mdowlin2* /forum/post/15074337
> 
> 
> I think you will do just fine picking up channels with an indoor channel, they just wont all be from cleveland. I am at kent state and am using the EVGA Indtube as my tv, and using the small indoor antenna I can get the following channels:
> 
> 
> WEWS - ABC Cleveland
> 
> WJW - FOX Cleveland
> 
> WKBN - CBS Youngstown
> 
> WFMJ - NBC Youngstown
> 
> WUAB - Mytv 43 Cleveland
> 
> WBNX - The CW Akron
> 
> WBCB - The CW Youngstown
> 
> WNEO 1 and 2 - PBS Akron
> 
> 
> All of these I get HD with, and not much signal loss surpisingly.



You actually get a much better CBS and NBC. WKBN is far better than WOIO. Stronger signal and better programming. WOIO has their awful Action News and a habit of showing paid programming at bad times(dumping CBS programming a few times). Plus WKBN comes with the WYFX subchannel. WYFX fat better than WJW. At least you'll get to see Prison Break on Monday. Those of us with crappy WJW get to see the Clowns game and PB and Terminator SCC are not being rebroadcast.


WFMJ can be better than WKYC. During baseball season, WKYC dumps NBC programming often. I've actually picked up WFMJ analog just to see Saturday rebroadcast shows like Chuck and Law & Order.


----------



## Mdowlin2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15074449
> 
> 
> You actually get a much better CBS and NBC. WKBN is far better than WOIO. Stronger signal and better programming. WOIO has their awful Action News and a habit of showing paid programming at bad times(dumping CBS programming a few times). Plus WKBN comes with the WYFX subchannel. WYFX fat better than WJW. At least you'll get to see Prison Break on Monday. Those of us with crappy WJW get to see the Clowns game and PB and Terminator SCC are not being rebroadcast.
> 
> 
> WFMJ can be better than WKYC. During baseball season, WKYC dumps NBC programming often. I've actually picked up WFMJ analog just to see Saturday rebroadcast shows like Chuck and Law & Order.



I had been pretty bummed out about not being able to pick up WKYC, because I really like the NBC programming. Just recently I found a sweet spot for my antenna and can pick up WFMJ and am in free network tv heaven.


I am happy that I get WJW, I am a die-hard browns fan, and it seems as if their HD feeds are one of the better feeds in the area.


All told I can pick up about 15 channels with a high gain, telescopic indoor antenna that is about 15" long. I am really surprised at the reception, and loving it.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15072011
> 
> 
> Do I have any chance with an indoor antenna?



I've been watching OTA digital for 3 years down here in North Canton... nearly 50 miles from the 7 Hills antenna farms... using an inside antenna mounted on a camera tripod... an amplified 4 bay UHF bowtie antenna for Cleveland and an amplified 2 bay UHF antenna for Youngstown... no luck with a Yagi... antenna placement is critical... had to walk the antenna around looking for the hot spots... but once I found it reception has been very reliable... varying a foot or so between summer and winter... BTW the omnidirectional RV type antennas may work on analog but are reportedly not so good for digital...


Ed...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15073523
> 
> 
> Toby10:
> 
> You will need an outdoor big ass antenna. (supersized) The problem with digital is when you loose signal the video and audio drop out and you loose continuity. If you don't have mental problems prior to OTA you will after if you have viewed weak signals for 24 hrs. I believe it was added to the Geneva List of forbidden tortures. Occasionally multipath will drive you up the wall. The big ass antennas only cost about $100.00. I am pretty lucky with a 177" VHF/UHF antenna fixed as 67.1,49.1,.2 do drop out at times but all the others are in fat city, even 25.1thru.9.
> 
> JJK



Why do I need a "big ass antenna"? I get all the local OTA digital HD ch's (save 25-1) with my very small and very discrete 23" saucer shaped outdoor antenna. Unless I bring people to the side of my house and point it out they don't even notice it.










Maybe you meant this for JMann.


----------



## JJkizak

Toby10:

Geez!, Did I make another mistake?

JJK


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> .. nearly 50 miles from the 7 Hills antenna farms...



The only towers in 7 Hills are radio stations: WMMS-FM & WHK-AM. I used to live in 7 Hills and got WHK's signal over my phone (actually it was WRMR at the time but still 1420).


All the TV station transmitters (except for the analog WVIZ) are in the City of Parma. Even WBNX which is licensed to Akron is in Parma. BTW: most of the LPTV's licensed to Cleveland are on the WBNX tower on West Ridgewood Rd.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjkizak* /forum/post/15076754
> 
> 
> toby10:
> 
> Geez!, did i make another mistake?
> 
> Jjk










ha!


----------



## markek

Wow,


Just discovered this forum, it's great.


I am Parma and using a pc card to watch tv on computer. Bought an antenna from best buy (omni-directional non amplified antenna) and only receive 3-4 channels. WKYC doesn't come in at all. Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? Can someone recommend a good antenna that will allow me to pick up the max amount of channels.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15078166
> 
> 
> Wow,
> 
> 
> Just discovered this forum, it's great.
> 
> 
> I am Parma and using a pc card to watch tv on computer. Bought an antenna from best buy (omni-directional non amplified antenna) and only receive 3-4 channels. WKYC doesn't come in at all. Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? Can someone recommend a good antenna that will allow me to pick up the max amount of channels.



Welcome to the forums. As a fellow Parmanian I can share with you my experiences with OTA.


First, just becuase we live in the shadow of the towers that is no guarantee of flawlwss OTA reception. If anything, that proximity creates unique problems not shared by those not as close. For one thing forget using any kind of antenna amplifier. The overload will ruin your reception across the board. I'm glad you found an omni that was not amplified. There were no non-amplified omnis when I bought mine, I ended up running it without the power supply, and now I don't use it at all.


WKYC is currently on low band VHF for both analog and digital. Nothing short of an 8 foot beam will bring that one in (or rabbit ears fully extended). After Feb. '09 they will move to UHF ch 17 so it's not worth investing in low band antennas anymore.


You did not say where you mounted your omni. Is it outdoors or indoors? You should do a lot better than 3 or 4 channels even with 3-1 & 3-2 missing. If it's indoors you need to position it by a window (with no screen) facing the towers (not an easy task for most of us since the towers literally surround many of us - which is why, I guess, you chose an omni). Walls tend to do nasty things to the signals even if the tower lights illuminate your neighborhood. Aluminium siding, insulation and other building materials will block or distort the signals to the point where you cannot maintain a lock.


Here is some good news if you are a football fan and live at the top of the hill. WKBN-DT out of Youngstown comes in 24/7. They are CBS-HD plus a FOX-SD subchannel. So what you may ask? Becuase some Sundays there are different or extra NFL games available from this station that are not carried by WOIO or WJW.


Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? No, that is a cable/satellite pay channel. It's not transmitted OTA (except when WUAB simulcasts the Cavs).


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15078614
> 
> 
> Welcome to the forums. As a fellow Parmanian I can share with you my experiences with OTA.
> 
> (big snip)
> 
> Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? No, that is a cable/satellite pay channel. It's not transmitted OTA (except when WUAB simulcasts the Cavs).



FSN "HD" Ohio seldom has any program content at all. Either it has a blank screen or a very short Power Point Logo. When it does have an occasional show, none of the program guides list it. So they show some of the Cavilers home games, a few hockey games (some with two West Coast teams) and maybe a collage football or basketball game.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15076861
> 
> 
> All the TV station transmitters (except for the analog WVIZ) are in the City of Parma.



oops...

I should have known better...

Ghoulardi's favorite town!

Ed...


----------



## markek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15078614
> 
> 
> Welcome to the forums. As a fellow Parmanian I can share with you my experiences with OTA.
> 
> 
> First, just becuase we live in the shadow of the towers that is no guarantee of flawlwss OTA reception. If anything, that proximity creates unique problems not shared by those not as close. For one thing forget using any kind of antenna amplifier. The overload will ruin your reception across the board. I'm glad you found an omni that was not amplified. There were no non-amplified omnis when I bought mine, I ended up running it without the power supply, and now I don't use it at all.
> 
> 
> WKYC is currently on low band VHF for both analog and digital. Nothing short of an 8 foot beam will bring that one in (or rabbit ears fully extended). After Feb. '09 they will move to UHF ch 17 so it's not worth investing in low band antennas anymore.
> 
> 
> You did not say where you mounted your omni. Is it outdoors or indoors? You should do a lot better than 3 or 4 channels even with 3-1 & 3-2 missing. If it's indoors you need to position it by a window (with no screen) facing the towers (not an easy task for most of us since the towers literally surround many of us - which is why, I guess, you chose an omni). Walls tend to do nasty things to the signals even if the tower lights illuminate your neighborhood. Aluminium siding, insulation and other building materials will block or distort the signals to the point where you cannot maintain a lock.
> 
> 
> Here is some good news if you are a football fan and live at the top of the hill. WKBN-DT out of Youngstown comes in 24/7. They are CBS-HD plus a FOX-SD subchannel. So what you may ask? Becuase some Sundays there are different or extra NFL games available from this station that are not carried by WOIO or WJW.
> 
> 
> Can you pick up digital FSN Ohio OTA? No, that is a cable/satellite pay channel. It's not transmitted OTA (except when WUAB simulcasts the Cavs).



Thanks for the welcome,


I am currently using my computer with a tv card in it to watch television. My computer is in a closet so when I connect the RCA antenna I purchased I have to keep it in the closet (short cable). I am looking for an antenna that I could maybe mount in the attic hoping to improve reception. Don't want to spend too much as this is only for occasional viewing.


I can only pickup 5-1, 8-1, 43-1. There are 2 more that come in sporadically.


My son would love to see the cavs in HD somehow.


----------



## markek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/15080571
> 
> 
> oops...
> 
> I should have known better...
> 
> Ghoulardi's favorite town!
> 
> Ed...



I'm old enough to remember Ghoulardi.










I'm actually in Parma Hts, Ghoulardi didn't know about us!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15081834
> 
> 
> Thanks for the welcome,
> 
> 
> I am currently using my computer with a tv card in it to watch television. My computer is in a closet so when I connect the RCA antenna I purchased I have to keep it in the closet (short cable). I am looking for an antenna that I could maybe mount in the attic hoping to improve reception. Don't want to spend too much as this is only for occasional viewing.
> 
> 
> I can only pickup 5-1, 8-1, 43-1. There are 2 more that come in sporadically.
> 
> 
> My son would love to see the cavs in HD somehow.



Being rather close to the antenna farm your existing antenna *might* pull in your desired locals if placed in the attic, as high as possible.

Anything indoors (including attic) will have signal loss, but optimizing your existing antennas location and height in the attic may well do the trick.

Obviously a long cable run, but might be worth a shot.


----------



## JJkizak

Update:

I talked to mu guru buddy in Sheffield Lake and he said the Time/Warner line to his house is RG-6 copper. My uncle also said his was copper.

JJK


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15081840
> 
> 
> I'm old enough to remember Ghoulardi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually in Parma Hts, Ghoulardi didn't know about us!



Stay COOL Group!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15069043
> 
> 
> What's BT? I think you can watch old episodes on ABC.com.
> http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index



Nobody answered, Bit Torrent and of course you can watch episodes of shows on your computer. But if you want to watch it on your HDTV you can download the show, usually in 720p.


Now how you get it to your television, that requires a little extra equipment. TiVo does it but I think there are other things that can do it to but I'm not sure.


Bit Torrent is suppose to be a no no but I don't think it's illegal provided you don't distribute it. But the moment you download your BT app starts uploading, but I keep mine down to just 10kb so nobody gets much from me.


I just take, I don't give.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15083757
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> I talked to mu guru buddy in Sheffield Lake and he said the Time/Warner line to his house is RG-6 copper. My uncle also said his was copper.
> 
> JJK



That's kinda what I suspected. I'm surprised they are not using a beefier cable run to the house though.

RG6 is the same cable they give you on basic cable installs.


As long as it all works.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/15083779
> 
> 
> Stay COOL Group!



Hey, another purple knif ova dey!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15084004
> 
> 
> That's kinda what I suspected. I'm surprised they are not using a beefier cable run to the house though.
> 
> RG6 is the same cable they give you on basic cable installs.
> 
> 
> As long as it all works.



An exceptionally long drop might require RG-11 from the pole to the ground block. Inside the house though it's always RG-6.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15083810
> 
> 
> Nobody answered, Bit Torrent and of course you can watch episodes of shows on your computer. But if you want to watch it on your HDTV you can download the show, usually in 720p.
> 
> 
> Now how you get it to your television, that requires a little extra equipment. TiVo does it but I think there are other things that can do it to but I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> Bit Torrent is suppose to be a no no but I don't think it's illegal provided you don't distribute it. But the moment you download your BT app starts uploading, but I keep mine down to just 10kb so nobody gets much from me.
> 
> 
> I just take, I don't give.



Hookbill, is that you? I'm drowning in a sea of OTA chatter!!







Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow. Since FOX Cleveland is showing a ESPN MNF GAME.


That being said, I see hook is a taker. Don't worry, I usually leave the file up for a while too, then I dump it once I close the program if it uses too much memory.


To watch it on TV, all you need is a TV with an RGB input and a RGB cable plus an audio cable if you want better sound than computer speakers(my stock Dell speakers are pretty ****** so I use my TV speaker system). After that, make sure you set the computer output to a widescreen setting, such as 1280x720.


----------



## paule123

Did anybody else notice WJW leaving the Bears/Green Bay game way early today ? I flipped back to Fox after looking at another game and was shocked to see the MIN/TB game on. There will still 8 minutes to go in Green Bay. I didn't think the networks were allowed to leave a game early like that.


(and yes I know Chicago got blown out of the water, but it's the principle of the thing







)


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15085006
> 
> 
> Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow.




My TiVo is telling me that Prison Break will be aired Wednesday at 7pm.


----------



## nickdawg

This was a problem during Boston Legal last night and it's happening again now during CSI:NY. There is a static-interference noise in the background on 5's HD channel. I watched the news at 11 and the sound was fine, but now it has been messed up. The analog channel sounds fine, but not the digital.


I cannot wait for February 2009 when all these affiliates will make fools of themselves on EVERY TV set in NE Ohio, once there is no more analog channel.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15086206
> 
> 
> My TiVo is telling me that Prison Break will be aired Wednesday at 7pm.



But will it be HD? Probably not as FOX locally lacks the HD recording equipment and the FOX splicer system's current set up won't let the affiliate touch the digital feed, other than passing it through.


And ever since the jackasses at FOX decided to letterbox SD programming this year, the unfortunate side effect for those of us with HDTVs is we get to watch a 'picture inside a picture' in windowbox format.


I'm still going with Bit Torrent since it will be HD. And commercial free. And the 16x9 HD picture will fill my HD screen.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15085134
> 
> 
> Did anybody else notice WJW leaving the Bears/Green Bay game way early today ? I flipped back to Fox after looking at another game and was shocked to see the MIN/TB game on. There will still 8 minutes to go in Green Bay. I didn't think the networks were allowed to leave a game early like that.
> 
> 
> (and yes I know Chicago got blown out of the water, but it's the principle of the thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I didn't notice it on Fox, but Channel 4 left the Giants/Ravens game with 8 minutes or so to go in the 4th quarter. After the commercial they were broadcasting the Denver/Atlanta game with no explanation. I even rewound to see if I had been "napping" while the Giants game ended but no... before the commercial it was one game, after the commercial it was the other game, also in the 4th quarter!! ???


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15084280
> 
> 
> An exceptionally long drop might require RG-11 from the pole to the ground block. Inside the house though it's always RG-6.



Yes, inside RG6 is fine. They ran RG11 from the street for my WOW cable bundle service (Voip, TV, Internet).


What I'm surprised at is the use of RG6 from the street to the residence in a FiOS (or like) fiber optic install, which is what JJKizak was finding out from his contact who had the service installed.


----------



## JJkizak

They probably install anything laying in the truck.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15086206
> 
> 
> My TiVo is telling me that Prison Break will be aired Wednesday at 7pm.



And what about Terminator?


Oh, I just saw nickdawgs post. Good point, will it be in HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15085006
> 
> 
> Hookbill, is that you? I'm drowning in a sea of OTA chatter!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow. Since FOX Cleveland is showing a ESPN MNF GAME.



How can it be OTA's fault? It's the local FOX affiliates fault, with their new owners.


Think about it nicdawg. Now concentrate real hard...............


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15088060
> 
> 
> They probably install anything laying in the truck.
> 
> JJK



Ha!







Quite possible.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15088166
> 
> 
> How can it be OTA's fault? It's the local FOX affiliates fault, with their new owners.
> 
> 
> Think about it nicdawg. Now concentrate real hard...............



If more people had ESPN, of if the OWNERS just ignored the tiny minority with OTA, we wouldn't be in this situation now. That should be the rule. You want to see an *ESPN* game, GET ESPN!!!!


And if I watch that game tonight, I'm going to be watching it on ESPN!!!! I'm not even giving WJ(ackass)W the time of day.


Really makes me want to get a stronger antenna to pick up WKBN-2. They're not even HD and they are far superior to WJW. Plus I wouldn't have to see their OBNOXIOUS news people(Stephanie, Stacey, etc) on commercials.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15086392
> 
> 
> This was a problem during Boston Legal last night and it's happening again now during CSI:NY. There is a static-interference noise in the background on 5's HD channel. I watched the news at 11 and the sound was fine, but now it has been messed up. The analog channel sounds fine, but not the digital.
> 
> 
> I cannot wait for February 2009 when all these affiliates will make fools of themselves on EVERY TV set in NE Ohio, once there is no more analog channel.



I caught that static too. It was also on the Dish Network feeds (both HD & SD) I ended up watching CSI: NY on WEWS analog







. The fact that the audio problem was heard on E* SD menas that E* has already made the switch to the digital feed for the SD feed.


BTW: I almost watched CSI:NY from WKBN-DT but they were showing a different episode and their syndicated programs are still SD. Usually both stations have the same episode (maybe that is on Saturdays only). BTW: The E* EPG had the wrong episode description for WKBN.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Hookbill, is that you? I'm drowning in a sea of OTA chatter!! Before you jump on me, I'm pissed today because I realized it is OTA's fault I don;t get to see Prison Break tomorrow. Since FOX Cleveland is showing a ESPN MNF GAME.



If you really would rather see Prison Break at it's usual time insted of Brady & Da Dawgs get a decent UHF outdoor antenna and aim it at Youngstown. WKBN-DT with WYFX on 27-2 will have your beloved show.


As for me I'll be watching WJW-DT because that is the only way I'll see the game in HD 16X9 downrezzed to my old CRT. I don't sub to the HD version of ESPN yet (although I do get STO & FSN in HD along with all my locals).


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15081840
> 
> 
> I'm old enough to remember Ghoulardi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually in Parma Hts, Ghoulardi didn't know about us!



But, are you old enough to remember Mad Daddy Pete Myers (sp) ???


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15087771
> 
> 
> Yes, inside RG6 is fine. They ran RG11 from the street for my WOW cable bundle service (Voip, TV, Internet).
> 
> 
> What I'm surprised at is the use of RG6 from the street to the residence in a FiOS (or like) fiber optic install, which is what JJKizak was finding out from his contact who had the service installed.



If there's enough signal available to deliver reasonably flat response at 0dbmv or better at the set after a splitter, RG-6 is just fine.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15089931
> 
> 
> If more people had ESPN, of if the OWNERS just ignored the tiny minority with OTA, we wouldn't be in this situation now. That should be the rule. You want to see an *ESPN* game, GET ESPN!!!!
> 
> 
> And if I watch that game tonight, I'm going to be watching it on ESPN!!!! I'm not even giving WJ(ackass)W the time of day.
> 
> 
> Really makes me want to get a stronger antenna to pick up WKBN-2. They're not even HD and they are far superior to WJW. Plus I wouldn't have to see their OBNOXIOUS news people(Stephanie, Stacey, etc) on commercials.



Actually you have a valid point. I heard recently on FOX 8 News that approximately 12% of the viewing public use antenna. Now I don't think that included people with digital television, I believe it was just analog users.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15093534
> 
> 
> Actually you have a valid point. I heard recently on FOX 8 News that approximately 12% of the viewing public use antenna. Now I don't think that included people with digital television, I believe it was just analog users.



And I expect that number to drop. As hard as it is to get all the channels with digital, compared to analog, I'd expect there will be more cable converts next year. Right now I can get all the Cleveland stations plus 21 and 27 from Y-town. Even though they're really fuzzy, they still come in. With my current antenna, there's no way I could get all the channels in digital. The same will go for many others with older antennas.


I can see it already: OTA TV: 194?-2009.


----------



## Trip in VA

I'm beginning to wonder if nickdawg works for any political campaigns. The way he tears into people, companies, and TV stations is absolutely amazing. He could go places with that.










- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15093630
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder if nickdawg works for any political campaigns. The way he tears into people, companies, and TV stations is absolutely amazing. He could go places with that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh God! Trip, if you've got some time take a look at some of his posts in the past. While nickdawg and I have a comfortable relationship there are times when I wanted to jump through the screen and give him a cyber beating. In fact verbally I have.


No offense to nickdawg but he doesn't see the big picture in things and often speaks on emotion more then fact.


And as anyone here will tell you In *never* do that.


----------



## mmadd29

After the transition, it looks like some stations power will be going up, and others down in power. I was thinking of getting a preamp, but figured to wait until after the transition, and a few weeks of the issues that are sure to arise after the shutoff.


Am I correct in my thinking?


----------



## PTXer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmadd29* /forum/post/15094846
> 
> 
> I was thinking of getting a preamp, but figured to wait until after the transition, and a few weeks of the issues that are sure to arise after the shutoff.
> 
> 
> Am I correct in my thinking?



Why wait until after the transition? A preamp will help either side of that date unless you have multi-path issues or are too close to the transmitters.


----------



## mmadd29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PTXer* /forum/post/15095013
> 
> 
> Why wait until after the transition? A preamp will help either side of that date unless you have multi-path issues or are too close to the transmitters.



My thinking is to wait and see after the transition. I'm not too bad now with getting the stations from Toledo analog. The digital ones are up about 50% of the time. I'm just not certain the preamp will help to make the digital stations come in closer to 100% of of time.


The preamp recommended will add a gain of about 18db, then taking off 50 ft of RG6, and a splitter is probably a loss of about 13db, leaving me with a gain of about 5db. The gain on my antenna is about 7db.


The two stations WTOL is at 5.2 currently, and WUPW is at -6.6.


WTOL comes in digital quite frequently, while WUPW comes in digital once in awhile.


Both are great on analog.



Sorry to bore everyone with the details, but it gives a better picture.


----------



## Trip in VA

If you live too close to the towers, a preamp could cause you overload problems.


I agree, wait for the transition.


- Trip


----------



## mmadd29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15095196
> 
> 
> If you live too close to the towers, a preamp could cause you overload problems.
> 
> 
> I agree, wait for the transition.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That's my thinking.


I do have some strong LOS stations, I'm still 30 miles from the tower farm in Parma. No problems toward Toledo. The preamp recommended is the AP-8700.


This takes into account the strong LOS stations.


I would hate to buy the preamp, have it work, then after the transistion have issues.............


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15094829
> 
> 
> he doesn't see the big picture in things and often speaks on emotion more then fact.
> 
> 
> And as anyone here will tell you In *never* do that.



Of course. You've never spoke out on emotions before.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15096108
> 
> 
> Of course. You've never spoke out on emotions before.



OK, you two...do we have to turn this car around? We will.


----------



## JMann2380




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15073349
> 
> 
> If your tv has a QAM tuner, you should be able to get Time Warner's Lifeline Basic cable package.
> 
> It consists of analog channels 2-20, but on the QAM frequncy, you should be able to get all of the local stations in DT/HD. This is what I have and am very happy with it since it is all I need for tv and costs me less than $15/month.



This post piqued my interest... how does this work? My EyeTV hybrid includes a QAM tuner, however I called Time Warner and 3 different reps said I couldn't get HD unless I got digital cable with a box???


Can you fill me in on how this works?


Thanks,

Josh


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15095196
> 
> 
> If you live too close to the towers, a preamp could cause you overload problems.
> 
> 
> I agree, wait for the transition.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Unfortunately some stations may not be at "maximized" power by February 17, so things may get better even after the transition. The FCC seems slow about approving these requests, especially here with the Canadian coordination issues and nearby market interference issues (Detroit).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15098954
> 
> 
> This post piqued my interest... how does this work? My EyeTV hybrid includes a QAM tuner, however I called Time Warner and 3 different reps said I couldn't get HD unless I got digital cable with a box???
> 
> 
> Can you fill me in on how this works?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh



Cable CSR's are either trained to tell you this or are simply not informed about QAM. And as QAM offers no $$$ to the cable co., I wouldn't train them in QAM usage either if it were my co. or department.










One of the reasons they don't want to even acknowledge QAM tuning, rightfully so, is the very issue you are having. You have a QAM tuner, but you know nothing about QAM services, how it works, what you need to do, etc... The cable co has little interest in helping people solve issues for a service they provide for free. Throw in the many different types of QAM tuners out there, with different menu functions and features, and it could quickly become a CS nightmare.


QAM works, but it's quirky as ch's move around and limited or no program data.

But it is there, it's local's in HD, and people do use it.


Dunno what EyeTV is but it must have a QAM section in it's manual, no?


----------



## JMann2380




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15099302
> 
> 
> Cable CSR's are either trained to tell you this or are simply not informed about QAM. And as QAM offers no $$$ to the cable co., I wouldn't train them in QAM usage either if it were my co. or department.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QAM works, but it's quirky as ch's move around and limited or no program data.
> 
> But it is there, it's local's in HD, and people do use it.
> 
> 
> Dunno what EyeTV is but it must have a QAM section in it's manual, no?



EyeTV is just a tuner for my Mac and the newest version has QAM support, at least it says so on the box. It should detect the channels and pull up a program guide from Titan TV and I can use my Mac as my DVR. I just want to get ABC, NBC, FOX etc in HD without messing with an over the air antenna. $15 a month seems worth it I guess.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15098954
> 
> 
> This post piqued my interest... how does this work? My EyeTV hybrid includes a QAM tuner, however I called Time Warner and 3 different reps said I couldn't get HD unless I got digital cable with a box???
> 
> 
> Can you fill me in on how this works?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh



Well, that is and isn't true. You can get some HD, your local stations and maybe one or two others but nothing else.


From what I see with QAM somtimes if you do a scan you may see one of the other HD channels but don't count on it.


And even their digital channels are limited. Mostly it's music and shopping channels, so if you want the full benefits of HD and digital get the box.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JMann2380* /forum/post/15099323
> 
> 
> EyeTV is just a tuner for my Mac and the newest version has QAM support, at least it says so on the box. It should detect the channels and pull up a program guide from Titan TV and I can use my Mac as my DVR. I just want to get ABC, NBC, FOX etc in HD without messing with an over the air antenna. $15 a month seems worth it I guess.



Ah, cool.







Then that should do it for you. QAM usually requires a full scan of all possible ch's to tune in any ch's. Then you can sift through the results. Have fun and fiddle!










I switch over to my QAM maybe twice a year, on a snowy day like today, when I'm bored. Poke around, see what's there. That's about it. I prefer OTA for local HD ch's.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15099443
> 
> 
> Ah, cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then that should do it for you. QAM usually requires a full scan of all possible ch's to tune in any ch's. Then you can sift through the results. Have fun and fiddle!



The QAM scanning process takes a LONG time. A LONG time. Even on the fastest tuner I've seen.


There's not a lot the tuner makers can do about it...TWC, for example, has a large number of QAM channels. Last time I checked, it was well into triple digits.


The bad news, of course, is only a small number of those channels are unscrambled and available to view with a QAM tuner. Usually the locals in digital and/or HD, and a handful of other channels you probably don't care about (the "BARKER" channel that sells PPV movies and shows, a bunch of shopping channels, etc.).


I'm not sure even STOHD is still in clear QAM these days. Here in the ex-Adelphia part of TWC, we used to get DISCHD (Discovery HD Theater) in the clear, but I'm sure that's gone now.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Down here in Canton, we NEVER got STO-HD. That would have been nice.


I have 4 different QAM tuners in my house. 3 of them do take a long time to scan. Although in their defense, they ARE scanning all NTSC/ATSC/QAM channels, then sorting all those channels too.

One of the tuners however, is VERY fast. I can do a rescan at any time and it only takes about 10 minutes. Why is it different?... no NTSC, only ATSC/QAM.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15093534
> 
> 
> Actually you have a valid point. I heard recently on FOX 8 News that approximately 12% of the viewing public use antenna. Now I don't think that included people with digital television, I believe it was just analog users.



While only 12% use OTA, there is another group of viewers with "lifeline" basic cable or a "family pack" satellite subscription. Add those to the 12% and you will get the total number of viewers who would not have seen yesterday's Browns game without WJW's carrying the game (since ESPN is not carried in these packs).


And don't forget an even larger number of viewers (i.e. TWC customers) need to be added for NFL Network's Thursday Night games. So we should all be thankful that the NFL allows the local station in the two team's markets to carry the "cable" games!


----------



## mmadd29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15099223
> 
> 
> Unfortunately some stations may not be at "maximized" power by February 17, so things may get better even after the transition. The FCC seems slow about approving these requests, especially here with the Canadian coordination issues and nearby market interference issues (Detroit).



Again another reason to wait for the shutoff....and let everything shake out a while. I have a feeling that there is going to be a 30 day grace period that has been asked for.....


----------



## JJkizak

I believe the biggest amount of hollaring will come from people using rabbit ears to pick up the digital stations. Might require a TARP bailout.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15099763
> 
> 
> The QAM scanning process takes a LONG time. A LONG time. Even on the fastest tuner I've seen.
> 
> 
> There's not a lot the tuner makers can do about it...TWC, for example, has a large number of QAM channels. Last time I checked, it was well into triple digits.
> 
> 
> The bad news, of course, is only a small number of those channels are unscrambled and available to view with a QAM tuner. Usually the locals in digital and/or HD, and a handful of other channels you probably don't care about (the "BARKER" channel that sells PPV movies and shows, a bunch of shopping channels, etc.).



One of the common problems I've seen with QAM tuner implementations is that many units won't differentiate between encrypted and clear-qam channels, throwing all of therm into the list of available channels. Then the user has to manually visit each channel, check to see if there's a picture there, and delete the ones that produce a blank screen. This can be very time consuming.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15101243
> 
> 
> One of the common problems I've seen with QAM tuner implementations is that many units won't differentiate between encrypted and clear-qam channels, throwing all of therm into the list of available channels. Then the user has to manually visit each channel, check to see if there's a picture there, and delete the ones that produce a blank screen. This can be very time consuming.



From my experience, it seems that there isn't likely an way for the QAM tuner to know what is and is not available. It would be more up to the cable compnay to not have "scrambled" channels out there, BUT, that may require a LOT of work on their part which they are NOT willing to do.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15099893
> 
> 
> While only 12% use OTA, there is another group of viewers with "lifeline" basic cable or a "family pack" satellite subscription. Add those to the 12% and you will get the total number of viewers who would not have seen yesterday's Browns game without WJW's carrying the game (since ESPN is not carried in these packs).
> 
> 
> And don't forget an even larger number of viewers (i.e. TWC customers) need to be added for NFL Network's Thursday Night games. So we should all be thankful that the NFL allows the local station in the two team's markets to carry the "cable" games!



You know what I have to say to those people? Tough s**t. The game was on ESPN. Because of a few of these morons, two of my programs were not shown at there proper time.


And nickdawg is correct, they are showing these episodes in SD!


If the Browns had a decent team and had a real shot at making the playoffs, which believe me they don't because they will play Pittsburgh again then I could understand why Cleveland, being a football town, might want to see this. But this illusion of the Browns being any type of a contender is absolute nonsense. Even when they win it's ugly.


I just don't believe that if FOX was still O&O this would have happened.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15101479
> 
> 
> You know what I have to say to those people? Tough s**t. The game was on ESPN. Because of a few of these morons, two of my programs were not shown at there proper time.
> 
> 
> And nickdawg is correct, they are showing these episodes in SD!
> 
> 
> If the Browns had a decent team and had a real shot at making the playoffs, which believe me they don't because they will play Pittsburgh again then I could understand why Cleveland, being a football town, might want to see this. But this illusion of the Browns being any type of a contender is absolute nonsense. Even when they win it's ugly.
> 
> 
> I just don't believe that if FOX was still O&O this would have happened.



Hey hookbill:



It's from Canadian channel Global HD. Guess what, HD with no popups or advertising on screen. Just a bug and a TV rating.


How were the replays on FOX tonight? Was it letterbox with sidebars? I hate letterboxing!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15101532
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill:
> 
> http://www.torrentportal.com/downloa...iD-vXv.torrent
> 
> 
> It's from Canadian channel Global HD. Guess what, HD with no popups or advertising on screen. Just a bug and a TV rating.
> 
> 
> How were the replays on FOX tonight? Was it letterbox with sidebars? I hate letterboxing!



Just so you know, those torrents aren't TRUE HD. In fact they aren't even full SD. Check the video size. 624x352. SD is 720x480 (probably closer to about 720x400 by the time the letterboxing is taken into account). 720p is 1280x720 and 1080i/p is 1920x1080. Huge difference. But it does have the slight advantage that it's downressed from an original HD source so compression artifacts aren't as noticable as that from an SD source.


I just wish these people would actually start releasing these in full HD and not some fake garbage.


----------



## Trip in VA

Um, folks? I'm pretty certain this stuff here's a rules violation. And very likely a law violation.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15101613
> 
> 
> Just so you know, those torrents aren't TRUE HD. In fact they aren't even full SD. Check the video size. 624x352. SD is 720x480 (probably closer to about 720x400 by the time the letterboxing is taken into account). 720p is 1280x720 and 1080i/p is 1920x1080. Huge difference. But it does have the slight advantage that it's downressed from an original HD source so compression artifacts aren't as noticable as that from an SD source.
> 
> 
> I just wish these people would actually start releasing these in full HD and not some fake garbage.



I checked that one, 624x352. But it still looks far better than SDTV cable does. Although I suppose that will change soon once cable follows the lead of satellite and starts downconverting SD from HD. Plus, I've seen in another thread that other countries get FOX shows in 1080i instead of 720p. So they're taking an even better source and downconverting.


I took it down for now. I'll make sure hook saw it in the morning.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15101613
> 
> 
> Just so you know, those torrents aren't TRUE HD. In fact they aren't even full SD. Check the video size. 624x352. SD is 720x480 (probably closer to about 720x400 by the time the letterboxing is taken into account). 720p is 1280x720 and 1080i/p is 1920x1080. Huge difference. But it does have the slight advantage that it's downressed from an original HD source so compression artifacts aren't as noticable as that from an SD source.
> 
> 
> I just wish these people would actually start releasing these in full HD and not some fake garbage.



Well, it's far better then watching in SD and it does come in Dolby 5.1. If it isn't "true" HD you could have fooled me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15101532
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill:
> 
> 
> 
> It's from Canadian channel Global HD. Guess what, HD with no popups or advertising on screen. Just a bug and a TV rating.
> 
> 
> How were the replays on FOX tonight? Was it letterbox with sidebars? I hate letterboxing!



I didn't watch it. My TiVo started recording it and I just happened to have it on 408 so I noticed it wasn't in HD.


Yes, it had side bars, looked like crap and no Dolby!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15101731
> 
> 
> Well, it's far better then watching in SD and it does come in Dolby 5.1. If it isn't "true" HD you could have fooled me.



No doubt and fully agreed. I just want someone to start releasing the full TS files for once or at least do a proper encode keeping the full resolution in check. **** file size, we got single terabyte drives now and 10-20mbit connections.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15101741
> 
> 
> I didn't watch it. My TiVo started recording it and I just happened to have it on 408 so I noticed it wasn't in HD.
> 
> 
> Yes, it had side bars, looked like crap and no Dolby!



And the worst part is this season we get bars on FOUR sides!! I would watch PB if it were 4:3 with sidebars, that's not too bad. But when it is windowboxed, I can't stand it.


I can't wait until February. Once network analog feeds go away, we'll always have either 16x9 on network programming or 4x3 on non-HD stuff. Plus the SD local channels will be 4x3 also. NBC will look a hell of a lot better on my SDTV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15101777
> 
> 
> And the worst part is this season we get bars on FOUR sides!! I would watch PB if it were 4:3 with sidebars, that's not too bad. But when it is windowboxed, I can't stand it.
> 
> 
> I can't wait until February. Once network analog feeds go away, we'll always have either 16x9 on network programming or 4x3 on non-HD stuff. Plus the SD local channels will be 4x3 also. NBC will look a hell of a lot better on my SDTV.



No, I didn't see that. Just bars on the side.


Probably need to change a setting in your DVR, or so you call it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15101827
> 
> 
> No, I didn't see that. Just bars on the side.
> 
> 
> Probably need to change a setting in your DVR, or so you call it.



Huh? I know that FOX changed their SDTV feed this year. I'll have to look at PB tomorrow to see if it is the same. Maybe FOX8 is being kind and over-riding FOX's letterboxing.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmadd29* /forum/post/15095081
> 
> 
> My thinking is to wait and see after the transition. I'm not too bad now with getting the stations from Toledo analog. The digital ones are up about 50% of the time. I'm just not certain the preamp will help to make the digital stations come in closer to 100% of of time.
> 
> 
> The preamp recommended will add a gain of about 18db, then taking off 50 ft of RG6, and a splitter is probably a loss of about 13db, leaving me with a gain of about 5db. The gain on my antenna is about 7db.
> 
> 
> The two stations WTOL is at 5.2 currently, and WUPW is at -6.6.
> 
> 
> WTOL comes in digital quite frequently, while WUPW comes in digital once in awhile.
> 
> 
> Both are great on analog.
> 
> 
> Sorry to bore everyone with the details, but it gives a better picture.



Out in Sheffield Lake, you should be fine with a preamp, since you are plenty far enough from the towers in Parma. I would make sure, however, that the preamp has an FM notch filter built-in, since a close-by FM transmitter could possibly cause problems. This is pretty standard for most higher-quality preamps. RG-6 is specified at 7 dB loss per 100-ft at 400 MHz, so should be less than 10 dB at 600 MHz (the highest high-power TV channel) and drop down to 3 dB at 174 MHz. On average for digital stations around channel 30, your 50-ft length should result in no more than 5 dB of loss, plus another 7 dB or so for a 4-way splitter, or 12 dB total loss. So your figures are pretty good. To preserve the noise figure of the LNA, you really want about 10 dB of gain over cable/distribution loss, but 5-6 dB gain won't degrade it too much, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


Along with the power changes you mentioned, there are also going to be frequency and antenna system changes, some of which might very well not happen until the spring or later. In any case, out where you are, there will probably be more dB variation due to path and multipath losses than differences in ERP levels adjusted for frequency. I believe the preamp would be a safe bet now as well as later. Plus, it might help you get some good TV DX!


Ron J.


----------



## mmadd29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15103780
> 
> 
> Out in Sheffield Lake, you should be fine with a preamp, since you are plenty far enough from the towers in Parma. I would make sure, however, that the preamp has an FM notch filter built-in, since a close-by FM transmitter could possibly cause problems. This is pretty standard for most higher-quality preamps. RG-6 is specified at 7 dB loss per 100-ft at 400 MHz, so should be less than 10 dB at 600 MHz (the highest high-power TV channel) and drop down to 3 dB at 174 MHz. On average for digital stations around channel 30, your 50-ft length should result in no more than 5 dB of loss, plus another 7 dB or so for a 4-way splitter, or 12 dB total loss. So your figures are pretty good. To preserve the noise figure of the LNA, you really want about 10 dB of gain over cable/distribution loss, but 5-6 dB gain won't degrade it too much, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
> 
> 
> Along with the power changes you mentioned, there are also going to be frequency and antenna system changes, some of which might very well not happen until the spring or later. In any case, out where you are, there will probably be more dB variation due to path and multipath losses than differences in ERP levels adjusted for frequency. I believe the preamp would be a safe bet now as well as later. Plus, it might help you get some good TV DX!
> 
> 
> Ron J.



Thanks for the detailed reply.


Just to let you know, currently there is no splitter, just an female to female connector to connect the cable coming into the attic to the cable going down the wall. The cable down the wall goes straight to the TV.


I most certainly will have a FM trap on the amp. I use a seperate homemade antenna in the attic for FM, so there is not need for the antenna to get FM signals.


I think it may be preamp time.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15101243
> 
> 
> One of the common problems I've seen with QAM tuner implementations is that many units won't differentiate between encrypted and clear-qam channels, throwing all of therm into the list of available channels. Then the user has to manually visit each channel, check to see if there's a picture there, and delete the ones that produce a blank screen. This can be very time consuming.



My LCD's QAM tuner is like this. It takes something close to 45 minutes (!) to scan QAM channels, and only those properly labeled by TWC (generally, the locals) are easy to find.


You then have to go through all the Music Choice channels, and figure out what's left that isn't scrambled.


I can't help but believe that the cable companies want it this way, to keep QAM confusing and time consuming, so you'll just give up and buy digital cable.


----------



## Smarty-pants

You guys are all lucky that you can get the music channels with TW's QAM. No musice here in Canton.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15106125
> 
> 
> You guys are all lucky that you can get the music channels with TW's QAM. No musice here in Canton.



I don't really care one way or the other - I wish TWC would label them properly, though, so I can quickly choose or avoid them!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15105883
> 
> 
> I can't help but believe that the cable companies want it this way, to keep QAM confusing and time consuming, so you'll just give up and buy digital cable.



You are joking, arn't you? I mean do you really expect the cable company to miss out on the oppertunity of selling a box?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15106683
> 
> 
> You are joking, arn't you? I mean do you really expect the cable company to miss out on the oppertunity of selling a box?



It's a pain in the ass and I honestly hope it fades away over the years. Clear QAM channels and analog channels are the cinder block tied to cable's feet. Analog wastes tons of bandwidth that could be used on HDTV or other services. Enter SDV. Ahhh, but(and I mean a BIG Oprah butt!) channels on SDV cannot be in clear QAM. The only GOOD solution would be to adopt a policy like satellite. Every TV needs a box and most(if not all) channels are put on SDV. I've been reading for years about Interactive TV services. When I had D* several years back, we had interactive tv. You could get local weather info on the Weather Channel and other channels sent along additional data. Navigator is set up for Enhanced TV services like Start Over, but the Enhanced menu is currently only used for HDTV channels.


This is why cable sucks. They have to follow an entirely different set of rules. Satellite companies are playing basketball and TWC shows up in football gear, ready to play football. Cable has to make sure every cheapwad can watch a lineup of some 60 channels without a box, cable has to act as an "analog OTA surrogate" for people who won't get a new TV, even thought the damn government is giving TWO coupons for OTA converters. Cable has to follow "must carry" laws and certain channels have to be "in the clear". I know what channels they are, Passport used to identify the HDTV local channels as "Clear To Air" while others were called "subscription". Cable has to make their system compatible with every POS company where some moron decided he can "build a better mousetrap" and put a cablecard slot on it.


Cable would have to bend over backwards to make their system accommodate my microwave oven(if I could put a QAM tuner or cablecard slot on it)

















Directv tells you to use their box or hit the bricks.


For once I agree with Directv.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> I just don't believe that if FOX was still O&O this would have happened.



The deal for FOX 8 to carry the ESPN games was made before the station sold. I believe they even carried an ESPN game last season on FOX 8 when they were very much still owned by FOX. Bottom line, being an O&O is no guarantee that the main network feed will be preempted.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15107829
> 
> 
> The deal for FOX 8 to carry the ESPN games was made before the station sold. I believe they even carried an ESPN game last season on FOX 8 when they were very much still owned by FOX. Bottom line, being an O&O is no guarantee that the main network feed will be preempted.



I guarantee they did NOT carry any games last year. The only other channel to carry them was WKYC pre games. Did they do a Sunday night game? That would have been on NBC. And they were not on Monday night football.


They were expected to do well this year hence the prime spotlight games.


If the deal was made prior to the new owners taking control, which MAY have happened it was part of the deal to sell. Network O&O do not pull there shows for other events.


And I'm not sure you're right about this in the first place. What evidence can you show me that the deal was made before the buy?


----------



## nickdawg

It's not my DVR. PB is up right now, bars on all four sides. Looks like s..t. I'd rather watch my BT version instead.


----------



## Inundated

I am convinced WJW would have made this decision even if the network still owned it.


It would have been a more difficult decision, since it would indeed impact a network show like "Prison Break", but they'd have made it. WJW likely made a ton of money by selling local spots during the Browns game...it's virtually a license to print money in this town, no matter what the team is doing.


My gut tells me that FOX would mostly be concerned about pre-empting not something like "Prison Break", but something like "American Idol".


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg you were right. FOX's broadcast on the HD channels are letterboxed. I caught it tonight as Prison Break was coming on.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15106683
> 
> 
> You are joking, arn't you? I mean do you really expect the cable company to miss out on the oppertunity of selling a box?



Read my message again. That's exactly what I was saying - that cable companies are happy with keeping QAM confusing, so that customers would just give up and get a digital cable box.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm happy too!
























And hookbill is right. In all the years of FOX, WJW rarely canceled regular programming. And if they did, it was low rent programming, not a big show like Prison Break.


----------



## Inundated

Is Prison Break really that big???


----------



## dj9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15101281
> 
> 
> From my experience, it seems that there isn't likely an way for the QAM tuner to know what is and is not available. It would be more up to the cable compnay to not have "scrambled" channels out there, BUT, that may require a LOT of work on their part which they are NOT willing to do.



Decent tuning software can and does detect encrypted channels. Encrypted programs are often marked as such (in TSReader). And my Samsung LCD TV filters out channels it detects as scrambled without me ever taking any action.


Also, tuning software can mark anything it can't decode as unencrypted or unavailable.


----------



## Brian5150

Can any1 tell me why Armstrong here in Medina is not show the cavs/pistons in HD?

Its advertised on cavs.com but I'm not getting the feed. This happened on sat. vs the jazz. It was advertised as being show in hd but all i get is a blank screen.


I'm seriously thinking about changing to directv.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15108886
> 
> 
> Is Prison Break really that big???



They haven't broken out yet!?!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian5150* /forum/post/15109270
> 
> 
> Can any1 tell me why Armstrong here in Medina is not show the cavs/pistons in HD?



I can't speak for Armstrong or why it isn't showing it, but we're getting it here on TWC (Cleveland system) in HD on 436.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm getting the game fine on channel 436. Finally, one of those two worthless channels(436,437) has some programming on it. I thought FSN was supposed to have a 24/7 broadcast on their HD channel this year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15108886
> 
> 
> Is Prison Break really that big???



It goes way beyond breaking out of a prison. They did that a long time ago. Matter of fact they have broken out of two prisons.


There is a lot of intrigue based around the idea that a "company" is trying or is really running the United States. Also watching the characters develop has been real interesting. Some of the one's you hated are starting to show a decent side while others are still just as evil as ever.


Great show, catch up with it on DVD if you can.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15109606
> 
> 
> I'm getting the game fine on channel 436. Finally, one of those two worthless channels(436,437) has some programming on it. I thought FSN was supposed to have a 24/7 broadcast on their HD channel this year.



I'm not sure when that'll eventually happen, but it's supposed to happen. I thought it would be by now, too.


I'm guessing that 437 is an FSNHD overflow channel, for (example, just a guess) when the Cavaliers and Blue Jackets play at the same time.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15109710
> 
> 
> Great show, catch up with it on DVD if you can.



I'm sure it is...I was just wondering how important "Prison Break" is in the FOX universe, re: its preemption on FOX 8.


----------



## ajstan99

WOW has (finally) added WVIZ-HD on channel 205. It is available via QAM.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15112061
> 
> 
> I'm sure it is...I was just wondering how important "Prison Break" is in the FOX universe, re: its preemption on FOX 8.



That question has been answered. Apparently the powers at this time feel football was more important. I'm telling you that if FOX was still O&O that would not have happened.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15112309
> 
> 
> That question has been answered. Apparently the powers at this time feel football was more important. I'm telling you that if FOX was still O&O that would not have happened.



I meant the importance of "Prison Break" in the network's mind...not the affiliate.


My only contention is that FOX 8 as an O&O may have had a more difficult time making the decision to pre-empt "Prison Break", but probably would have made the move anyway.


Do you have any idea how much money the station makes off of selling local commercial time on a Browns game?







Even when the team is not heading for the playoffs, the numbers for those games are through the roof.


My own personal thought is that FOX 8, under network ownership, would have passed on the game if it would have preempted "American Idol". As popular as it may be, "Prison Break" is no "Idol"...really, nothing on TV is, as far as ratings power.


I also allow that the new owners would potentially more aggressively go after the MNF Browns games. I just can't say, in my own head, that FOX would have instantly said no as an owner of WJW. My gut feeling is that WJW would still be in the bidding, but Local TV was probably more willing to compete against the other stations for the games than FOX would have been.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15112294
> 
> 
> WOW has (finally) added WVIZ-HD on channel 205. It is available via QAM.



About friggin time!










ajstan, are you experiencing some serious issues with the WOW analogs? My guess is that they are attempting to update their equipment for SDV and it isn't going well. Some days the analogs are very good, next day they are unwatchable (PBS and WEWS have a black screen sometimes).


Digital's seem unaffected, from what I can tell.


Just wondering how wide spread this is. Thanks


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15112676
> 
> 
> About friggin time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ajstan, are you experiencing some serious issues with the WOW analogs? My guess is that they are attempting to update their equipment for SDV and it isn't going well. Some days the analogs are very good, next day they are unwatchable (PBS and WEWS have a black screen sometimes).
> 
> 
> Digital's seem unaffected, from what I can tell.
> 
> 
> Just wondering how wide spread this is. Thanks



The analogs have been looking worse to me as well. Glad you posted, as I had been thinking that it was just me being overly critical after getting used to the HD stations.










While marginally better when tuning via the cable box vs. the TV, IIRC it used to look a whole lot better. Also, the PQ variance between TVs and tuners is significant.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15112394
> 
> 
> I meant the importance of "Prison Break" in the network's mind...not the affiliate.
> 
> 
> My only contention is that FOX 8 as an O&O may have had a more difficult time making the decision to pre-empt "Prison Break", but probably would have made the move anyway.
> 
> 
> Do you have any idea how much money the station makes off of selling local commercial time on a Browns game?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even when the team is not heading for the playoffs, the numbers for those games are through the roof.
> 
> 
> My own personal thought is that FOX 8, under network ownership, would have passed on the game if it would have preempted "American Idol". As popular as it may be, "Prison Break" is no "Idol"...really, nothing on TV is, as far as ratings power.
> 
> 
> I also allow that the new owners would potentially more aggressively go after the MNF Browns games. I just can't say, in my own head, that FOX would have instantly said no as an owner of WJW. My gut feeling is that WJW would still be in the bidding, but Local TV was probably more willing to compete against the other stations for the games than FOX would have been.



No way, it wouldn't happen. Having lived in Los Angeles where all the network stations are O&O (excluding CW and My13) I can tell you the networks never remove their programs for local events.


And it's not that Los Angeles has more local stations on VHF. They just don't do it. Period. That's where local non owned Network channels make changes. And that's why this happened.


----------



## Trip in VA

WCBS in New York has carried Yankees games before.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15116220
> 
> 
> No way, it wouldn't happen. Having lived in Los Angeles where all the network stations are O&O (excluding CW and My13) I can tell you the networks never remove their programs for local events.



Cleveland is not Los Angeles.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15116220
> 
> 
> And it's not that Los Angeles has more local stations on VHF. They just don't do it. Period. That's where local non owned Network channels make changes. And that's why this happened.



The situation is impossible to compare for one very good reason - Los Angeles has no NFL team, and hasn't had one in decades now.


And most of the time, even when the Rams and Raiders were there, they weren't popular enough to be compared to the Browns in Cleveland.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15117088
> 
> 
> WCBS in New York has carried Yankees games before.



I'm pretty sure WCBS/2 is the pre-season flagship for the New York Giants.


I would also not be surprised to see that the station has carried Giants ESPN/NFL Network games, though I'd have to research that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15117380
> 
> 
> Cleveland is not Los Angeles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The situation is impossible to compare for one very good reason - Los Angeles has no NFL team, and hasn't had one in decades now.
> 
> 
> And most of the time, even when the Rams and Raiders were there, they weren't popular enough to be compared to the Browns in Cleveland.



Point one. You are wrong. Rams and Raiders left in 1995. That is not "decades."


Point two. Valid. Now show me at least one other time that FOX, when it was O&O ever preempted there regular programming for local sports.


Google is your friend. I'll be patient and wait.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15117391
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure WCBS/2 is the pre-season flagship for the New York Giants.
> 
> 
> I would also not be surprised to see that the station has carried Giants ESPN/NFL Network games, though I'd have to research that.



"I'm pretty sure" and "I would not be surprised" doesn't prove anything. Get the info and show me, don't play guessing games. Because I'm "pretty sure" that you are wrong. And since you are the one making the statements I'll leave it to you to prove otherwise.


----------



## nickdawg

what's...


nevermind.


(Slowly walking backwards toward door)


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.prnwire.com/cgi-bin/stori...1608838&EDATE= 


There's a press release for WCBS in New York (#1 market, O&O) airing Yankees games.


And here's a post from 2006, before Local TV existed, noting that WJW will air a Browns game on December 7, 2006, a Thursday.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/1...ew-things.html 


- Trip


----------



## Inundated

OK, I'll take some points, and accede some to hookbill.


I stumbled onto a list of local carriers of ESPN/NFL Network games this year, on the same forum where that guy creates the user-drawn maps of NFL TV coverage on Sundays:

http://the506.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1220930356 


If this user-created list is correct, the only two-now-former FOX O&Os carrying games in the 2008 season are WJW and KDVR in Denver, both now under Local TV's ownership. (WXIN in Indy is not an O&O, of course, ditto with KSWB in SD.)


WWOR/9 "My9", which I believe is co-owned with WNYW/5, the FOX O&O in NYC, carries a few games, but I don't see any other stations that are actually FOX O&Os here. The "My9" carriage is an easy choice for FOX, since they own both stations (and program both networks). In Cleveland, though "My 43" WUAB took the MLB NLCS the last time WJW carried a prime-time Browns game, it's not owned by the network.


In summary, from that list, it doesn't appear as though FOX makes a conscious effort to go after these rights in its O&O markets, at least in 2008, if they didn't make the deals for WJW and KDVR before the sale. (One note: Tribune has a wide-reaching deal to carry prime-time local NFL games in many markets. That would preclude FOX from doing so, in many markets where they own the affiliate.)


It does appear CBS does go after many of these games in their O&O markets, though Thursday night's Pittsburgh Steelers' game with the Cincinnati Bungles, er, Bengals was pushed to sister WPCW/19 "Pittsburgh's CW".


However, despite all the above, Trip's link proves that WJW did air at least one prime-time Browns game in 2006, while it was clearly an O&O.










I think my final point is that though FOX may have not run all these games, or actively win the rights to them on a regular basis for a (now former) O&O like WJW, that would prove they would have no problem picking one up if they could make money off of it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15112815
> 
> 
> The analogs have been looking worse to me as well. Glad you posted, as I had been thinking that it was just me being overly critical after getting used to the HD stations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While marginally better when tuning via the cable box vs. the TV, IIRC it used to look a whole lot better. Also, the PQ variance between TVs and tuners is significant.



Well it sounds like you are noticing some minor picture degradation. My local analogs are simply not watchable at times. Multipath looking images, audio background noise, extremely grainy picture. The analogs beyond the locals seem to get progressively better the higher up the ch #'s, going from grainy but watchable to almost digital quality.


Then, couple hours later, all of the analogs are crystal clear........but for how long????


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15117704
> 
> http://www.prnwire.com/cgi-bin/stori...1608838&EDATE=
> 
> 
> There's a press release for WCBS in New York (#1 market, O&O) airing Yankees games.



I'll go along with this as being a notable exception. However we don't know what days they broadcast those games on.


In other words if they broadcast 20 games and they were all day games then that would not interfere with "prime time" broadcast. They may have done Sunday games, and also since this is baseball we are talking about nights when the network frequently runs re-runs. And back in the 90's and earlier there was not as much "new" programming as there is today, like Big Brother.


In this situation I would consider a network giving a nod for a Yankee broadcast, but during prime time in May I don't think so. And almost all opening games are day games.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15117704
> 
> 
> And here's a post from 2006, before Local TV existed, noting that WJW will air a Browns game on December 7, 2006, a Thursday.
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/1...ew-things.html
> 
> 
> - Trip



Friday nights FOX really doesn't have a schedule. Usually they will throw in a movie or a rerun. Sorry, no credit for that one.


----------



## hookbill

Wow, Melissa Mack has been at FOX for two years already? How time flies!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15119305
> 
> 
> I'll go along with this as being a notable exception. However we don't know what days they broadcast those games on.
> 
> 
> In other words if they broadcast 20 games and they were all day games then that would not interfere with "prime time" broadcast. They may have done Sunday games, and also since this is baseball we are talking about nights when the network frequently runs re-runs. And back in the 90's and earlier there was not as much "new" programming as there is today, like Big Brother.



This was 2002-2004. I cannot locate a schedule of which 20 games they picked up at this time.



> Quote:
> Friday nights FOX really doesn't have a schedule. Usually they will throw in a movie or a rerun. Sorry, no credit for that one.



Did you miss where I said December 7, 2006 was a Thursday? While I don't know the schedule of that particular Thursday, this is the day of the week that "The OC" would air, and as I recall that show was rather popular.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15119347
> 
> 
> This was 2002-2004. I cannot locate a schedule of which 20 games they picked up at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss where I said December 7, 2006 was a Thursday? While I don't know the schedule of that particular Thursday, this is the day of the week that "The OC" would air, and as I recall that show was rather popular.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I've already commented on your first point, I know you can't find the dates. My point is unless it interfered with prime time schedule it wouldn't matter. Since baseball is primarily played after the May sweeps we don't know when those 20 games were scheduled so it really doesn't dispute my theory. Now if they showed Yankee games on a Saturday or Sunday then you would have a valid point. But we just don't know.


On your second comment I went and looked up the date and I thought it was Friday, you were correct it was on a Thursday. But again look at the date. Usually after November sweeps networks will go to reruns or other things and as far as The OC goes, it seemed to have a loud voice of supporters but the ratings were never that great. I could see FOX allowing The Browns on local television at that time.


My main point is this: In a area where the shows are new and in prime time like with Prison Break and Terminator and the station is O&O this situation wouldn't have happened.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15119517
> 
> 
> My main point is this: In a area where the shows are new and in prime time like with Prison Break and Terminator and the station is O&O this situation wouldn't have happened.



Wasn't your original point that a network O&O would *not* pre-empt its shows for a Monday/Thursday night NFL game?










Ah, well. We're at a stalemate. You win!


----------



## lefkas

I noticed recently that WTRF in Wheeling/Steubenville broadcasts CBS programming on digital 32-1, FOX on 32-2 and ABC on 32-3. Talk about a monopoly. It got me to thinking, however, as to why OTA stations don't use their sub-channels to broadcast other interesting networks rather than useless weather and promo channels. Why couldn't FOX-8 for instance arrange to broadcast the Fox News Network on 8-2 or WEWS broadcast ESPN on 5-2 (both are affiliated with Disney and ABC) ? I suppose the economics might not be there for the cable networks but it sure could raise the advertising revenues for the local stations (not to mention OTA antenna sales).


Anyone out there have any thoughts on this ?


----------



## JJkizak

Yes. Not enough bandwidth.

JJK


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/15123193
> 
> 
> I noticed recently that WTRF in Wheeling/Steubenville broadcasts CBS programming on digital 32-1, FOX on 32-2 and ABC on 32-3. Talk about a monopoly. It got me to thinking, however, as to why OTA stations don't use their sub-channels to broadcast other interesting networks rather than useless weather and promo channels. Why couldn't FOX-8 for instance arrange to broadcast the Fox News Network on 8-2 or WEWS broadcast ESPN on 5-2 (both are affiliated with Disney and ABC) ? I suppose the economics might not be there for the cable networks but it sure could raise the advertising revenues for the local stations (not to mention OTA antenna sales).
> 
> 
> Anyone out there have any thoughts on this ?



For one....it usually significantly lowers the picture quality of HD on the primary channel when too much other "stuff" is added on subchannels. I personally would like to see all subchannel usage banned on stations that carry HD programming or at least at the same time as HD is being broadcast.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/15123193
> 
> 
> Why couldn't FOX-8 for instance arrange to broadcast the Fox News Network on 8-2 or WEWS broadcast ESPN on 5-2 (both are affiliated with Disney and ABC) ? I suppose the economics might not be there for the cable networks but it sure could raise the advertising revenues for the local stations (not to mention OTA antenna sales).
> 
> 
> Anyone out there have any thoughts on this ?



Won't happen. Cable channels receive a fee per subscriber to cable services, and making them available over the air would lead to a decrease or loss in such fees.


Ad revenue from the extra viewers would definitely not make up that difference. Especially not in this economy, but also not in a strong economy.


I calculated it for Fox News in another thread; Fox News supposedly gets 75 cents per subscriber--if I did the math right, that's roughly $62 million. I don't know if that 75 cents is monthly or not, as I'm not too familiar with it, but either way it's a pretty penny.


(3,000th post







)


- Trip


----------



## hookbill

I went to check disk space on my TiVo HD this evening. I couldn't connect, so I went upstairs and sure enough it had crashed.










I rebooted doing it the proper way, start eSata first wait about 20 seconds then start TiVo. It failed giving me an error message.


I tried again and apparently this was all because of an upgrade I got last night. It worked this time and besides being able to stream from Netflix apparently I can now order a pizza from Dominoes from my TiVo.


There is a whole bunch more, and I know most of you guys arn't interested but for the few that do have TiVo's it went from 9.4 to 11.0.P3, which means All kinds of new stuff to stream and free downloads.


Pretty cool, but a little scary with the reboot. I think this is basically a handshaking issue my DVI and TV seem to have, but I'm past that now so it should work fine.


----------



## markek

I have Cox standard analog cable, will I have to upgrade to digital cable in Feb. or can I continue with analog?


Eventually will be going to hdtv (just bought a projector). Can I purchase a digital cable box or boxes instead of renting them monthly from Cox Cable?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15124387
> 
> 
> I went to check disk space on my TiVo HD this evening. I couldn't connect, so I went upstairs and sure enough it had crashed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I rebooted doing it the proper way, start eSata first wait about 20 seconds then start TiVo. It failed giving me an error message.
> 
> 
> I tried again and apparently this was all because of an upgrade I got last night. It worked this time and besides being able to stream from Netflix apparently I can now order a pizza from Dominoes from my TiVo.
> 
> 
> There is a whole bunch more, and I know most of you guys arn't interested but for the few that do have TiVo's it went from 9.4 to 11.0.P3, which means All kinds of new stuff to stream and free downloads.
> 
> 
> Pretty cool, but a little scary with the reboot. I think this is basically a handshaking issue my DVI and TV seem to have, but I'm past that now so it should work fine.



What was that? Did I just hear that Tivo crashed?




























And rebooted?







Sounds like Tivo is taking a lesson from Navigator!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15125641
> 
> 
> I have Cox standard analog cable, will I have to upgrade to digital cable in Feb. or can I continue with analog?
> 
> 
> Eventually will be going to hdtv (just bought a projector). Can I purchase a digital cable box or boxes instead of renting them monthly from Cox Cable?



You'd have to check with the company to make sure, but cable and satellite companies will still be sending their signals to viewers the same way after 2/17/09. Since analog cable is not over-the-air TV, it can still exist. Although if you do get an HDTV, it is definitely worth it to get a digital/HDTV cable box. HD programming looks much better than regular programming plus your provider might even send all the standard channels in digital, like TWC does. The SD digital channels look worlds better than regular analog(in most cases).


----------



## markek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15125709
> 
> 
> You'd have to check with the company to make sure, but cable and satellite companies will still be sending their signals to viewers the same way after 2/17/09. Since analog cable is not over-the-air TV, it can still exist. Although if you do get an HDTV, it is definitely worth it to get a digital/HDTV cable box. HD programming looks much better than regular programming plus your provider might even send all the standard channels in digital, like TWC does. The SD digital channels look worlds better than regular analog(in most cases).



No question it looks much better. I pick up a few OTA channels on a tv card in my pc right now and it's great. It's just that I have 5 televisions and to upgrade to digital tv and then have to get the hdtv boxes is a big increase in price. Analog basic cable is bad enough.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15125692
> 
> 
> What was that? Did I just hear that Tivo crashed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And rebooted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like Tivo is taking a lesson from Navigator!!



Well, yeah but I can order pizza now! Try doing that with navigator!










No seriously there are some huge updates on this version. But I am seeing other people having problems with the upgrade. One person says it wiped out his library, but I'll bet he has an eSATA and didn't go about doing a proper reboot.


----------



## Inundated

TiVo is generally pretty bulletproof when it comes to software and crashes. My old S2 has only taken a dump once, I think, but it quickly recovered with a reboot. And I've had the thing for years!


I think hookbill's (and similar) problems are related to the eSATA external drives, if anything. Just a guess.


I got my S2 software update, and though us non-HD TiVo types can't do the Netflix streaming or other new stuff (YouTube on TiVo, etc.), we CAN order pizza. Or, what passes for it (Dominos).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15125641
> 
> 
> I have Cox standard analog cable, will I have to upgrade to digital cable in Feb. or can I continue with analog?



Just to knock down this off the top - the February "digital TV transition" does not affect cable TV, or satellite TV. It only affects over-the-air TV you pick up with an antenna or rabbit ears (3/5/8/19/etc.).


At least one cable system is taking advantage of the awareness of the date to dump all analog cable. Massillon Cable and Clear Picture down in Wooster (both owned by the same company).


They're going to basically give low-end digital boxes to their analog subscribers. They are only doing that so they can clear out the analog bandwidth to offer more HD and other services. It is not connected with the 2/17/09 date that local over-air stations have to shut off their analog signals.


Cox, Time Warner, WOW, Comcast and other major companies are generally going to keep offering analog cable for now. Even the local over-air digital only stations will be downconverted at the cable end for analog subscribers.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15125896
> 
> 
> Well, yeah but I can order pizza now! Try doing that with navigator!



I can order pizza too!! It's called a phone!!






































Seriously, I cannot stand this kind of technology. Jay Leno even made a "how fat are we getting" joke about this last week. This stuff is ridiculous. I saw a TWC commercial where their phone service puts who's calling on your TV screen when the phone rings. And I saw another one from AT&T's Advanced TV where you can view your computer on TV. I swear we are getting very close to having the creepy computer controlled houses of science fiction. Beware!! Tivo's out to get you!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markek* /forum/post/15125752
> 
> 
> No question it looks much better. I pick up a few OTA channels on a tv card in my pc right now and it's great. It's just that I have 5 televisions and to upgrade to digital tv and then have to get the hdtv boxes is a big increase in price. Analog basic cable is bad enough.



The regular TV's don't matter so much, but you definitely need a box for any TV that is HD. Analog picture is unwatchable on a high resolution TV.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15125896
> 
> 
> No seriously there are some huge updates on this version. But I am seeing other people having problems with the upgrade. One person says it wiped out his library, but I'll bet he has an eSATA and didn't go about doing a proper reboot.



Crap - sure hope this update doesn't cause any problems for me. I've been out of town the last two weeks, and have a boatload of recorded shows to catch up on...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15126392
> 
> 
> I can order pizza too!! It's called a phone!!



Reminds me of Scotty in Star Trek IV - "Keyboard. How quaint."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15126398
> 
> 
> Crap - sure hope this update doesn't cause any problems for me. I've been out of town the last two weeks, and have a boatload of recorded shows to catch up on...



Your chances of getting this update are slim. They will pull the big switch at another date. I haven't looked this morning but my S3 didn't have it yesterday.


----------



## ErieMarty

is anyone able to get those 2 channels by using your QAM on your HD TV..


I get the other cleveland HD Channels but those 2 I lost about 2 weeks ago..just curious if anyone is getting them or did they move them to another channel location


thanks


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15126243
> 
> 
> TiVo is generally pretty bulletproof when it comes to software and crashes. My old S2 has only taken a dump once, I think, but it quickly recovered with a reboot. And I've had the thing for years!
> 
> 
> I think hookbill's (and similar) problems are related to the eSATA external drives, if anything. Just a guess.
> 
> 
> I got my S2 software update, and though us non-HD TiVo types can't do the Netflix streaming or other new stuff (YouTube on TiVo, etc.), we CAN order pizza. Or, what passes for it (Dominos).



If you take a trip to the TCF and read some of the post over in the S3 thread, which includes the TiVo HD you would get the impression that TiVo does nothing but cause problems. One guy said it made his big toe ache.










Seriously there are so many morons over there it isn't even funny and I'm glad I don't post over there anymore. One person started a thread about the last update causing his Tivo to "copy protect everything he downloads." The idiot had no idea that cable companies do that, not TiVo.


I'm glad you can order your "so called" pizza (I agree).


nickdawg the pizza thing is just another way of integrating technology. Personally I'm kind of with you on this, but I do like to order food off the internet.


Does anyone remember the movie with Jodi Foster being a computer geek and she ordered a pizza on her computer? It was during the 90's, don't remember the name but I thought "what a cool idea!" and for the past few years now many restaurants have that.


But don't worry nickdawg, with that navigator technology being what it is it will probably never invade your house.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15126940
> 
> 
> I'm glad you can order your "so called" pizza (I agree).
> 
> 
> nickdawg the pizza thing is just another way of integrating technology. Personally I'm kind of with you on this, but I do like to order food off the internet.



The key to this new TiVo/Domino's thing is not ordering (so-called) pizza on the TiVo per se. You have to go into menu options to do it, and that's rather silly when you consider that you can just hit the laptop or desktop (or call!







). (I like Internet ordering, because I get to see everything I put in is correct, and I don't have to talk to some high school kid on the phone.)


The key to this new partnership is that Domino's will have a direct hook to ordering during their TV commercials. The little "Press Thumbs Up" icon will show up on your TiVo during any Domino's commercial, and that'll let you order automatically.


Of course, TiVo owners are very adept at avoiding commercials, so we'll see how that works out for them.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15126392
> 
> 
> I saw a TWC commercial where their phone service puts who's calling on your TV screen when the phone rings.



No big deal, my Dish Network receivers (both standard and DVR) has been doing that since at least 1999. Since youhave to keep a phone line connected to a satellite receiver it ws a no-brainer to add a caller ID app to the software.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15127115
> 
> 
> The key to this new TiVo/Domino's thing is not ordering (so-called) pizza on the TiVo per se. You have to go into menu options to do it, and that's rather silly when you consider that you can just hit the laptop or desktop (or call!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). (I like Internet ordering, because I get to see everything I put in is correct, and I don't have to talk to some high school kid on the phone.).......



Although I'd sooner eat yellow snow than Dominos, I like the idea. It's another small step forward with two way integration. Not everyone is going to have a PC fired up all the time so this could be handy. Also, I'm guessing, this new service would include current pricing and selections that may not be on the 2 year old paper menu I have (somewhere) in my kitchen drawer.










Like you I avoid unintelligent human contact whenever possible! Pay at the pump is my favorite invention of all time! We have a local pizza place, carry out only, good pizza, idiot employees. Every single time we call there to place an order the person who answered the phone *ALWAYS* has to say: "hold on, let me get a pen". Now wouldn't you presume, answering the phone at a carry out pizza place, that it is more than likely the person calling *may* want to order a pizza? Therefore requiring a pen when the phone is answered???


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15127236
> 
> 
> No big deal, my Dish Network receivers (both standard and DVR) has been doing that since at least 1999. Since youhave to keep a phone line connected to a satellite receiver it ws a no-brainer to add a caller ID app to the software.



Yeah, I think on screen Caller ID is pretty standard with VOIP service.

It's been part of my WOW cable bundle for years.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15127393
> 
> 
> Like you I avoid unintelligent human contact whenever possible! Pay at the pump is my favorite invention of all time!



Me, too.


Online ordering also means I order more often, avoiding that phone contact. I also don't have to spell out my address - it's already saved in the system.


And I might even get something from Domino's just to have fun with this new system!







Then, of course, I'll be reminded of the fact that Domino's food is basically marginally edible, and never do it again.


As far as caller ID goes - I know Time Warner offers it with their own bundled Digital Phone. I have Vonage, so I do without TV caller ID. And I use my cell phone more, anyway. My father presumably has TV caller ID with his DirecTV boxes, but he also uses his cell phone more often.


----------



## Speedskater

A long time ago, we would go to the Pizza Hut at Springfield Lake (SE of Akron) for lunch. When we walked in our beverages and meals would be on the table. The waitress (Susie B. Good) saw us in the parking lot and knew what we always ordered.


----------



## pjb16

Hey, I am over in Willoughby, and my channels are having a "wave" effect. Like I am currently watching the OSU/Michigan game, and I have these 2" tinted red lines rolling every 2" from the bottom of my tv to the top.


At first I thought it might be the tv, but my ps3 doesn't do it to my tv, and not all my dvr'd show seem to do it either.


I noticed it the other day on certain channels, but now it looks like most channels are doing it (haven't found one yet that doesn't cause it).


Is anyone else having any issues with their channels?


Edit: I have TWC (sadly), and run everything through a onkyo tx-sr606.


Edit #2: There is also a terribly annoying like audible sound coming out of my speakers when watching cable.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/15128235
> 
> 
> I have these 2" tinted red lines rolling every 2" from the bottom of my tv to the top.



Hummmm??


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/15128599
> 
> 
> Hummmm??



Imagine like every 2" vertically there is a 2" segment that extends from one edge of the screen to the other. This 2" by 36" segment "rolls" from the bottom of the screen to the top. It is as if that area is being covered by the red lens of a pair of 3-D glasses (though not quite that intensely red).


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/15128654
> 
> 
> Imagine like every 2" vertically there is a 2" segment that extends from one edge of the screen to the other. This 2" by 36" segment "rolls" from the bottom of the screen to the top. It is as if that area is being covered by the red lens of a pair of 3-D glasses (though not quite that intensely red).



This sounds like one of two things:


1) Hum bars. Try lifting the ground on the TV set with a ground adaptor plug and see if it goes away. If it does, you've got a ground loop somewhere.


2) Low line voltage. If the AC line drops below ~100v, it can cause electronic devices to dip below their regulation threshold, causing the peaks of the ac waveform to show up in the picture. This is easily confirmed with a vom.


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15128791
> 
> 
> This sounds like one of two things:
> 
> 
> 1) Hum bars. Try lifting the ground on the TV set with a ground adaptor plug and see if it goes away. If it does, you've got a ground loop somewhere.
> 
> 
> 2) Low line voltage. If the AC line drops below ~100v, it can cause electronic devices to dip below their regulation threshold, causing the peaks of the ac waveform to show up in the picture. This is easily confirmed with a vom.



Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?


Because, I have no issues playing 360 or ps3. And like I said, some dvr'd shows don't have the bars. That's why I didn't know if it was unique to my current cable experience, or if other people in the area saw the same thing.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/15128822
> 
> 
> Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?
> 
> 
> Because, I have no issues playing 360 or ps3. And like I said, some dvr'd shows don't have the bars. That's why I didn't know if it was unique to my current cable experience, or if other people in the area saw the same thing.



Sounds like bad cable box or bad cable signal.

Ray


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15129215
> 
> 
> Sounds like bad cable box or bad cable signal.
> 
> Ray



Yea, well I am moving next sunday, so it really isn't worth getting worked up about. Just didn't know if I was alone or not. Seems it is currently gone.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/15128169
> 
> 
> A long time ago, we would go to the Pizza Hut at Springfield Lake (SE of Akron) for lunch. When we walked in our beverages and meals would be on the table. The waitress (Susie B. Good) saw us in the parking lot and knew what we always ordered.



I have the same relationship with a local pizza/chicken place, where I always order the same (4 pieces of fried chicken, two breasts, two legs and jojos).


Though I do have to wait for them to cook it.


----------



## Inundated

Is anyone over here getting the new WNEO-DT during the day/night today? The signal that was hitting my converter box went away this afternoon...


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15129658
> 
> 
> Is anyone over here getting the new WNEO-DT during the day/night today? The signal that was hitting my converter box went away this afternoon...



They've been posting extended messages constantly on the channels over the past week or so to warn that they will be working on it. I don't remember the details, but that is probably what it is. Might be down for a few days.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15129739
> 
> 
> They've been posting extended messages constantly on the channels over the past week or so to warn that they will be working on it. I don't remember the details, but that is probably what it is. Might be down for a few days.



Oh, I know they've been working on it. They had the new signal up Thursday night, and off and on again Friday - someone here said they were at 1/4 power. I was wondering if they finally had it back up for good.


----------



## JJkizak

pjb16:

You have a power supply problem with either the tv or another unit causing a huge ground loop. Isolate the plugs (no ground) of everything you have plugged in one at a time.

The isolation will elimnate most of the problem but the unit causing the problem will eventually fail.

JJK


----------



## markek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15126395
> 
> 
> The regular TV's don't matter so much, but you definitely need a box for any TV that is HD. Analog picture is unwatchable on a high resolution TV.



Lets see, 2 hdtv's, 1 hd projector, and 1 pc with tv card. Cox will probably get me for about $5 per box and about another $10 for the upgrade to digital cable, thats $30 more per month on top of an already inflated cost. I better sell a lot more security systems next year!!


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/15128822
> 
> 
> Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?



I've seen instances where the cable drop had some AC on it referenced to ground... using a balun type device would isolate the grounds... best to get Larry the cable guy out to fix it...


"divide and conquer"


----------



## ZManCartFan

I apologize if this has been posted already. I usually just skim through here, and I admit I could have missed it. But I got a kick out of this video. 


It's humorous, but unfortunately, there's a lot of truth behind it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pjb16* /forum/post/15128822
> 
> 
> Ok, but like I said I only get the lines while watching cable, and wouldn't in both those above instances be issues with the TV?
> 
> 
> Because, I have no issues playing 360 or ps3. And like I said, some dvr'd shows don't have the bars. That's why I didn't know if it was unique to my current cable experience, or if other people in the area saw the same thing.



Check the cable grounding block at the entrance to the home. Did the ground wire loosen up?


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15130798
> 
> 
> I apologize if this has been posted already. I usually just skim through here, and I admit I could have missed it. But I got a kick out of this video.
> 
> 
> It's humorous, but unfortunately, there's a lot of truth behind it.



I like when she puts the remote control in the microwave!


----------



## pjb16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15130876
> 
> 
> Check the cable grounding block at the entrance to the home. Did the ground wire loosen up?



It is possible. I am in an apartment, and it could have been loosened from the weather or someone just being back there or what have you.


----------



## mnowlin

Way back when it was announced the Internet was being opened up for commercial purposes, my (now) business partner and I were in his living room discussing the change. One of us said something like "yea, next thing you'll see is pizzahut.com".


We're still kicking ourselves over this......


(Now that I think of it, damn, was that a long time ago.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15131963
> 
> 
> Way back when it was announced the Internet was being opened up for commercial purposes, my (now) business partner and I were in his living room discussing the change. One of us said something like "yea, next thing you'll see is pizzahut.com".
> 
> 
> We're still kicking ourselves over this......
> 
> 
> (Now that I think of it, damn, was that a long time ago.)



Around 1992 I was thinking that people who bought cell phones were crazy. And some people were even buying a computer for their home! Now that had to be insane, I mean I work with a computer all day long why in the world would I ever want one at home?


In 1995 my girlfriend got a cell phone. I had no need for one but hey, she got one and I got a great deal working for the County of Los Angeles. 25.00 and 5 free minutes!







A little while later she bought a Mac and another buddy of mine was having so much fun with his it started to peak my interest. So I bought one too.


At that time I had no idea what amazing things were going to come out of this. A few years back I worked at Hughes Aircraft, which was bought out by General Motors and we began to hear abouit this crazy idea of putting these smaller satellite dishes on peoples houses. That of course was the beginning of Direct TV, but at the time it just sounded strange. After all we had cable.


We were told at the time it was meant for people who lived in rural areas where there was no cable.


When I look back over my life, yes, I've seen a great deal of change. But the funny part about it is nothing really changed the way I thought it would let's say around 1970. Heck we just got to the moon and I was sure by 2000 we'd be George Jettson flying around. Public phones would all be picture phones and people would have them in their houses. CD's?? DVD's?? never a thought. This rather odd thing called a microwave began to come around in the early 80's but you had to shell out some bucks for one of those.


Now that was a bit of what i was thinking, instant meals and such. But what's happened over the last 20 years is truly remarkable, but in some ways so wastefull. When we had that gas crisis in the 70's I was certain that the internal combustion engine would be replaced. I mean .50 a gallon, come on!


And everyone drove economy cars, then Reagan came, the wall came down something I never thought would happen and on top of that the Soviet Union went away. The second most powerful nation in the world!


But we stopped going to the moon. We forgot about the gas. We were preaching green back then and look, it's happening again.


I wonder in another 30 years if we will forget again and still be driving cars with gas and go back to the way we were before. We should have done something about this a long time ago.


But we do have the internet, High Definition Television with Dolby 5.1! And yes you can order a pizza from your television.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15132319
> 
> 
> ......And everyone drove economy cars, then Reagan came, the wall came down something I never thought would happen and on top of that the Soviet Union went away. The second most powerful nation in the world!........




I'll forgo the flying cars for 100% digital cable.










As for the Soviets, unfortunately, the Bear only went into hibernation and is waking. I think over the next few years the Bear's claws are going to recapture some of it's lost eastern real estate, it's going to get very ugly.


----------



## Andrew K

I searched the FCC database and noticed a couple Cleveland channels that are expanding their coverage area beyond their current LP analog signal. These are WCDN-LP which is a Daystar affiliate planning on using digital channel 7. WXOX-LP (HSN) is listed as using digital channel 44. Check out their contour maps. Akron is included...


WXOX... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1235639.html 

WCDN... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...LD1182451.html 


When WVPX eventually gets their act together, I'm assuming they will have 4 of the typical sub-channels. I don't know why they haven't just decided to ditch the analog already.


23.1 WVPX (ION)

23.2 WVPX (QUBO)

23.3 WVPX (ION LIFE)

23.4 WVPX (WORSHIP)


Has anyone heard anything new about the WVIZ-DT problem? It would be nice to receive their signal OTA in Akron.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15134466
> 
> 
> Has anyone heard anything new about the WVIZ-DT problem? It would be nice to receive their signal OTA in Akron.



The "problem" is as it has been...WVIZ-DT is not yet operating from a new tower at WKYC, which will hold both WKYC-DT and WVIZ-DT antennas.


Supposedly, they're hoping to start testing it sometime in the next month. Check the FCC filings under the transition reports for WVIZ.


Right now, they're on their second temporary antenna, 10KW off of an auxiliary tower at WKYC's site.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15132319
> 
> 
> 
> But we do have the internet, High Definition Television with Dolby 5.1! And yes you can order a pizza from your television.



I'll trade the HDTV for a car that runs on NO gas!!! Gas prices aren't going to stay down forever.


----------



## nickdawg

Lately I've had problems recording shows late at night. I usually try to record the "Married With Children" episodes on TBS, channel 202, in the early morning hours(5, 6 AM). Many times I've found that my show did not record. Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV. Are they working on the channels at night and things are getting messed up? I know the box didn't reboot then because it is outputting PCM audio since an EAS test last week(and DD audio is restored after a reboot).


----------



## nickdawg

I'm watching George Lopez on WBNX SD channel and it is apparent that this supposedly "SD digital" channel is NOT digital. There is fuzz and lines in the picture and it is a bit jumpy(and the 'digitized' picture blurs and blocks when the fuzz happens.


C'mon cable!! Time to follow the lead of satellite, who is already starting to center cut the HD channels for the SD feed. TWC, give your customers better picture quality!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15137673
> 
> 
> Lately I've had problems recording shows late at night. I usually try to record the "Married With Children" episodes on TBS, channel 202, in the early morning hours(5, 6 AM). Many times I've found that my show did not record. Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV. Are they working on the channels at night and things are getting messed up? I know the box didn't reboot then because it is outputting PCM audio since an EAS test last week(and DD audio is restored after a reboot).



That kind of stuff happened to me all the time with my SA 8300.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15137673
> 
> 
> Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV.



That message was probably the number one reason I got a Tivo. The infuriating bit was that recordings failed even if I was watching the show live, which contradicts with what the TW tech told me - "that message will appear if an available tuner can't locate the right signal". Appears that when a recording kicks off, one job handles tuning in the signal, and another job does the actual recording. A little birdie told me that the recording job waits a certain amount of time to allow the tuning job to finish. If it times out, the recording is aborted and the message is logged.


Very well could be related to SDV, but I was getting this over a year ago on broadcast channels. (Distinctly remember Heroes not recording one night.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15145300
> 
> 
> That message was probably the number one reason I got a Tivo. The infuriating bit was that recordings failed even if I was watching the show live, which contradicts with what the TW tech told me - "that message will appear if an available tuner can't locate the right signal". Appears that when a recording kicks off, one job handles tuning in the signal, and another job does the actual recording. A little birdie told me that the recording job waits a certain amount of time to allow the tuning job to finish. If it times out, the recording is aborted and the message is logged.
> 
> 
> Very well could be related to SDV, but I was getting this over a year ago on broadcast channels. (Distinctly remember Heroes not recording one night.)




Me too. Even though it was an inferior machine and was difficult to set up programming I would have tolerated it if it would just record like it was suppose to.


nickdawg the more I think about it I doubt SDV testing would be the cause. If they were testing SDV wouldn't they make it available to those machines that are SDV capable? It doesn't make sense.


I think you may be experiencing for the first time just how ticky tacky SA software is, and perhaps the Passport software was their best. Good luck with that thing, and with the economy being in bad shape you can always start looking for a TiVo HD on e-Bay.


----------



## GLuis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15137673
> 
> 
> Lately I've had problems recording shows late at night. I usually try to record the "Married With Children" episodes on TBS, channel 202, in the early morning hours(5, 6 AM). Many times I've found that my show did not record. Instead I get an odd message in the Recording Log section of the DVR menu saying "The settop was unable to record this program". It's very strange and I wonder if it has anything to do with SDV. Are they working on the channels at night and things are getting messed up? I know the box didn't reboot then because it is outputting PCM audio since an EAS test last week(and DD audio is restored after a reboot).



nickdawg, I'm not sure what type DVR you have but with my Dish 722 there is a general system setting for when to check for updates and download the latest 9 day program guide. I believe it defaults to 3 or 4 am. I have not run into any issues with my few late night/early morning recordings but you may want to check.

You would think that the update would have a lower priority to a scheduled recording but you never know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GLuis* /forum/post/15146580
> 
> 
> nickdawg, I'm not sure what type DVR you have but with my Dish 722 there is a general system setting for when to check for updates and download the latest 9 day program guide. I believe it defaults to 3 or 4 am. I have not run into any issues with my few late night/early morning recordings but you may want to check.
> 
> You would think that the update would have a lower priority to a scheduled recording but you never know.



TW usually does this late night/early morning. It could be an update, check your Diagnostic screen, nickdawg.


----------



## mnowlin

Hehe - ran into another SA recording "oops" tonight..


My SA8300 complained in the logs that "this program can not be recorded due to an unresolved conflict". There were three shows scheduled - one from 8-9, one from 8-10, and one from 9-10 that was replayed 10-11. Instead of just rescheduling the 9-10 show to 10-11, the box happily decided not to record *any* of the shows.


Fortunately, the Tivo was smart enough to figure out things and record the shows as desired, keeping my wife happy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15154157
> 
> 
> Hehe - ran into another SA recording "oops" tonight..
> 
> 
> My SA8300 complained in the logs that "this program can not be recorded due to an unresolved conflict". There were three shows scheduled - one from 8-9, one from 8-10, and one from 9-10 that was replayed 10-11. Instead of just rescheduling the 9-10 show to 10-11, the box happily decided not to record *any* of the shows.
> 
> 
> Fortunately, the Tivo was smart enough to figure out things and record the shows as desired, keeping my wife happy.
























----nuff said


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15154157
> 
> 
> Hehe - ran into another SA recording "oops" tonight..



I had that happen on my SA8000, and I saw it actually happening. It *really* doesn't like three shows scheduled at around the same time, and is not smart enough to pick up an alternate airing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15155266
> 
> 
> I had that happen on my SA8000, and I saw it actually happening. It *really* doesn't like three shows scheduled at around the same time, and is not smart enough to pick up an alternate airing.



Yes, that's what happens if a show gets moved to a different time slot. SA 8300, at least with SARA has no preference capabilities and since 3 shows are there it just doesn't record anything.


----------



## nickdawg

I swear, stupidity is fast-spreading virus in Cleveland TV these days. Today as I was flipping through the channels I saw a HIDEOUS sight on WVIZ analog, what appears to be some bastardized letterbox picture. I noticed that WVIZ DT has flipped the switch to a simulcast SD channel(like WNEO). Except instead of taking the CORRECT approach and center cutting for SD downconversion, they are sending down a letterbox cartoon in what looks like a double-letterbox format(the horizontal bars from the show + horizontal bars to bastardize it to fit 4:3 AND skinny bars on the sides).


And yes, this is WVIZ doing this. I checked the OTA analog version and it looks the same as it does on TWC, thankfully. I can only hope TWC has more sense in downconverting and will send down 4:3 center cut versions once they begin downconverting for the SD channel in house(like satellite).


And then I looked at WNEO-DT. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!


Now, instead of horizontal stretching SD programming, it appears they are "trying"(and I use that word loosely) to "blow up" the windowboxed picture to fit the screen. Except their attempt is an epic FAIL!!! Now there are skinny black bars around the edge of the screen and the picture looks like crap. That's what happens when you attempt to "expand" windowboxed material to fit 16:9, the PQ gets significantly worse.


I used to try that with channels like USA and F/X that show letterboxed content. I ended up finding it better to just watch it with bars on all four sides.


Now, my plea to ANY PBS donors here: DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO EITHER OF THESE STATIONS UNTIL THEY LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY BROADCAST HDTV!!


----------



## nickdawg

EDIT:


I guess that SD/HD simulcast was some kind of a dress rehearsal. Now DT is back to the normal national HD feed. The SD channel is showing normal 4:3 picture again. Only odd thing is it looks like the blanking lines are on the left side of the screen(rather than on top). I can't see it on the OTA TV(due to overscan) but on cable with sidebars from the box, it is obvious.


----------



## _Elt_

Well well... I kind of like your agrument (Nick) to a certain extent, but since WNEO/WVIZ, etc etc are going digital or have already switched to digital, if you dislike how broadcasters are sending their programs down, I guess you can switch between xx.1 (so called HD channel) and xx.2 (SD channel).


I mean, if you like to watch programs with horizontally challenged screen size (People with BIG long faces/body...ewwww), then I guess you can stick to xx.1, which is the so-called HD or you can just use the remote and switch it to xx.2 which is 4:3. Isn't that easy? I don't know abou you, but I would prefer to watch zoomed people rather than long faces/body.


So since there are so many types of televisions and formats around, which should broadcasters use, according to your professional comments... stretch it, zoom it, pictured it, or ...? I am no biggie or expert, but I only have a 4:3 TV set at my house, so I can't complain too much.


good day


----------



## JJkizak

I hate "stretchovision".(stretching a 4 x 3 aspect to 16 x 9)

I hate "zoomovision" (Zooming in on a 2.35 x 1 aspect making it 16 x 9.)

I hate "shrinkovision" (shrinking a 4 x 3 aspect to skinny people)

I hate "aspectovision" (showing a 544 x 480 aspect tall and skinny)

I hate "inbetweenovision" (commercials cut midway between 4 x 3 and 16 x 9 on purpose which show incorrectly no matter what you have selected. This was to reduce the aspect distortion approximately in half regardless of what your set was set for to apease idiots who want to view full screen because they paid for full screen)

JJK


----------



## Smarty-pants

Don't you mean "FOOL screen"?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15157774
> 
> 
> Now, my plea to ANY PBS donors here: DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO EITHER OF THESE STATIONS UNTIL THEY LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY BROADCAST HDTV!!



Now, now. As much as I hate to interrupt a good rant, relax. Have you tried asking either WVIZ or 45/49 about this?


The latter even has a toll-free number and E-Mail address for its "DTV Help Desk".

http://westernreservepublicmedia.org/dtv4pbs/index.htm 


It won't cost you a dime, and will take less time to E-Mail than it takes to rant here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15159991
> 
> 
> Now, now. As much as I hate to interrupt a good rant, relax. Have you tried asking either WVIZ or 45/49 about this?
> 
> 
> The latter even has a toll-free number and E-Mail address for its "DTV Help Desk".
> 
> http://westernreservepublicmedia.org/dtv4pbs/index.htm
> 
> 
> It won't cost you a dime, and will take less time to E-Mail than it takes to rant here.



Hey, it's Thanksgiving. A time for ranting and raving.


nickdawg lives in the bizzarro world.


----------



## hookbill

For the last couple of days TiVo is telling me that FOX SPORTS OHIO HD has been found. I looked there a coupled of days ago and there it was, FOX SPORTS OHIO HD. Nice blue screen with the words FOX SPORTS OHIO on it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15159871
> 
> 
> I hate "stretchovision".(stretching a 4 x 3 aspect to 16 x 9)
> 
> I hate "zoomovision" (Zooming in on a 2.35 x 1 aspect making it 16 x 9.)
> 
> I hate "shrinkovision" (shrinking a 4 x 3 aspect to skinny people)
> 
> I hate "aspectovision" (showing a 544 x 480 aspect tall and skinny)
> 
> I hate "inbetweenovision" (commercials cut midway between 4 x 3 and 16 x 9 on purpose which show incorrectly no matter what you have selected. This was to reduce the aspect distortion approximately in half regardless of what your set was set for to apease idiots who want to view full screen because they paid for full screen)
> 
> JJK



There is one NTSC format.


There are _eighteen_ different ATSC formats.


This is going to take awhile to sort out.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15160084
> 
> 
> For the last couple of days TiVo is telling me that FOX SPORTS OHIO HD has been found. I looked there a coupled of days ago and there it was, FOX SPORTS OHIO HD. Nice blue screen with the words FOX SPORTS OHIO on it.



TWC is telling me I have _TWO_ channels of FSN Ohio. Two in SD and two in HD. I guess one must be an overflow channel if two events are on. And the one SD channel(310) USED to show a pristine, clear digital simulcast of 309(awful analog upconvert) until TWC decided to kill 310.


And I'm still waiting on that promise of 24/7 programming on FSN HD. I'd really like to see more HD events or at least a SD upconversion of the main channel, that has decent picture. I've had to suffer through another season of some Zips games looking like crap on that awful digitized analog channel.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15160061
> 
> 
> Hey, it's Thanksgiving. A time for ranting and raving.
> 
> 
> nickdawg lives in the bizzarro world.



Look, I understand a little of his rant. We're not used to receptive local TV stations when it comes to technical issues like that.


But the good folks at 45/49 have always been receptive to input. Heck, even their now-former station manager used to post from time to time RIGHT HERE on AVS Forum!


Not only do they have that DTV Help Desk (one would think, the perfect place for nickdawg to get his question answered), they have been out there tripping all over themselves getting the word out from libraries to newspapers to local blogs.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm a bit apprehensive about feedback because I've been ignored before(by a certain CBS TV station, ahem). And I've also had useful feedback. I've contacted WKYC about the HD syndication earlier in the season and got a timely, friendly response.


Too many times it seems the people running the stations either don't know, or care, about what they are doing. TBS is the least helpful. There was an email thing going on earlier in the year about their ads and stretching, TBS seemed to send a stock response.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15160084
> 
> 
> For the last couple of days TiVo is telling me that FOX SPORTS OHIO HD has been found. I looked there a coupled of days ago and there it was, FOX SPORTS OHIO HD. Nice blue screen with the words FOX SPORTS OHIO on it.



ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15162533
> 
> 
> ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen



WOW!!!! What a great way to use bandwith!










Way to go TW. And thanks for nothing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15161208
> 
> 
> I'm a bit apprehensive about feedback because I've been ignored before(by a certain CBS TV station, ahem). And I've also had useful feedback. I've contacted WKYC about the HD syndication earlier in the season and got a timely, friendly response.
> 
> 
> Too many times it seems the people running the stations either don't know, or care, about what they are doing. TBS is the least helpful. There was an email thing going on earlier in the year about their ads and stretching, TBS seemed to send a stock response.



Now I find this real hard to believe. Somebody actually ignoring you? How can that happen, you're the loudest voice in the room?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15161208
> 
> 
> I'm a bit apprehensive about feedback because I've been ignored before(by a certain CBS TV station, ahem). And I've also had useful feedback. I've contacted WKYC about the HD syndication earlier in the season and got a timely, friendly response.



As I said, I can understand your reticence to contact the public stations - given examples you've shown here.


But as I said, 45/49's people have even been IN THIS VERY THREAD, and they have a toll-free number and E-Mail address just begging for questions about the DTV transition.


You can rant all you want, and implore people to withhold their money from pledging to public TV because they "aren't doing it right" (in a time period that is very obviously a transition time period, with the changes from the 24/7 PBS HD feed for both local stations), or...you can drop them a quick note expressing your feelings.


I realize you get more out of the ranting, but it doesn't give you any more power over what they do.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15163401
> 
> 
> WOW!!!! What a great way to use bandwith!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way to go TW. And thanks for nothing.



The "HD Sports" or "FSN Ohio HD" blue screens take a very minimum of bandwidth, I'd assume...my guess is that it's negligible, and if it went away, there wouldn't be any more room to add any other channel.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15162533
> 
> 
> ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15163401
> 
> 
> WOW!!!! What a great way to use bandwith!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Way to go TW. And thanks for nothing.



It's my understanding that FSN makes the schedule, not the carrier. Same scenario for WOW, except our screen reads, "HD SPORTS" instead of "FOX SPORTS OHIO" when there's no programming.


See link on this page for programming schedule:
http://msn.foxsports.com/regional/ohio


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15163883
> 
> 
> It's my understanding that FSN makes the schedule, not the carrier. Same scenario for WOW, except our screen reads, "HD SPORTS" instead of "FOX SPORTS OHIO" when there's no programming.
> 
> 
> See link on this page for programming schedule:
> http://msn.foxsports.com/regional/ohio



It's Thanksgiving so I apologize for not being grateful. I suppose this is great for the majority of you and I understand Cleveland fans, you're very loyal to your team and I give you credit for that. But I did say "thanks a lot TW."










If I were a Cav's fan no way I can watch it anyway. Right now my S3 is 2/3 full with 750gb and my TiVo HD is almost 1/2 full with 700gb. For my birthday my wife gave me a brand new Mac Leopard, 24" screen and 1TB hard drive. I have 48 shows transferred on to that!


I haven't mentioned the Mac up until now because I was over in the TiVo Forum under the ID of RckStrang. I set up the account around July 3rd and only posted 47 times since then. I logged on the other day and saw that I was kicked out for "multiple identities" and I could only come back if I joined the TCF Club.














A few people over here in the AVS forum knew what I was doing (not in this thread) I didn't tell the name but it would have been easy to figure it out. I don't think those few dropped a dime on me but it doesn't matter I got the info I needed and if I need anymore help I can always go back, they can't really keep me out.


Anyway I got lots of stuff to watch, I'm at least a month behind!


----------



## nickdawg

I think I figured out the problem. TWC added new channels in the 830s-840s that are SDV mirror channels of the sports tier channels. Only a few come in(the ones included with digital tier). I have see the Outdoor channel(I'm just as surprised as the next guy that we get an outdoor channel) and a few shopping channels are up there, all in SDV. My latenight recordings have been working fine this week. I'm thinking their working on the system may have bugged things up a bit.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15164169
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway I got lots of stuff to watch, I'm at least a month behind!



What, do you try to watch *EVERY* show on TV???


----------



## Andrew K

I'm trying to find a good DTV tuner I can use to pick up OTA signals. About 5 years ago, I purchased the HDV420, and now I noticed that it doesn't have sensitivity as good as even those cheap $50 tuners you can now get with your coupons.


Does anyone know about how the tuners have improved over the past few years? I have an HDTV with built-in tuner that was purchased years ago, but it still cannot perform as well as even this really cheap new tuner. It's not as sensitive, and that's my main issue. Signals always seems to cut away many times on the older tuners, but not with the newer one.


Can anyone help me to find a quality tuner that's got nice sensitivity and offers HDTV? Do the newer built-in tuners perform any better?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15165379
> 
> 
> What, do you try to watch *EVERY* show on TV???



lol. No not hardly. It's just that if I'm lucky I might be able to watch 3 one hour shows. Usually just 2. But on I do record 5 shows on Monday, 4 on Sunday, 5 on Tuesday, I think 4 on Wednesday and 7 on Thursday. Friday I record 3.


And I record every Judge Judy and Peoples Court. I would record more court shows but hey, there is only so much time to watch.


You would be surprised from this point on how fast I catch up. Generally speaking the networks go into reruns in December, shows like Smallville and Supernatural don't come back until February.


However Medium and Lost will start up. And I think there is another one I want to record soon. I've got the Starter Wife I haven't even looked at.


I have over 40 season passes.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15166274
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find a good DTV tuner I can use to pick up OTA signals. About 5 years ago, I purchased the HDV420, and now I noticed that it doesn't have sensitivity as good as even those cheap $50 tuners you can now get with your coupons.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know about how the tuners have improved over the past few years? I have an HDTV with built-in tuner that was purchased years ago, but it still cannot perform as well as even this really cheap new tuner. It's not as sensitive, and that's my main issue. Signals always seems to cut away many times on the older tuners, but not with the newer one.
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me to find a quality tuner that's got nice sensitivity and offers HDTV? Do the newer built-in tuners perform any better?



DTV tuners have progressed like any other technology. I believe DTV tuners are now on the 6th generation of tuner technology.


However, unless I'm not understanding your post, I think you may be confusing DTV tuner types. If your goal is to receive OTA HD for display on your HDTV in HD resolution and digital audio then the coupon boxes are not what you are looking for. The $50 coupon boxes are converters (converting HD-DTV to analog audio and analog 480 video) and will not output HD resolutions nor digital audio. There are very few "true" HD-DTV STB tuner boxes (outputting HD resolutions and digital audio) on the market and none would be even close to $50. You can expect to pay 3 times that for a "true" HD-DTV STB tuner.


----------



## JJkizak

I have gone through 3 external tuners, one MRD-200 (failed) and two Samsung T-165's (one instantly burned up). I have found IMHO that the tuners built into the new HDTV's (LCD SONY XBR6, XBR2) have much greater sensitiviy/performance than the external tuners. There is also the problem of overscan with the external tuners which is around 10% compared to the 2.5% LCD default and "full pixel" for 1080i broadcasts OTA. The Samsung's also had a 4 x 3 aspect problem which slightly distorted the image. (a circle was made to look oval) My MY-HD 120 computer tuner is close in performance to the Sony's but do not have the sensitivity and channel selection speed. My Sony TV's will pick up 67.1 whereas the MY-HD 120 will not. I do not know if the Sony tuners will handle 1080P but the external inputs will. I got fed up with the external tuners and gave them to my guru buddy.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15167929
> 
> 
> I have gone through 3 external tuners, one MRD-200 (failed) and two Samsung T-165's (one instantly burned up). I have found IMHO that the tuners built into the new HDTV's (LCD SONY XBR6, XBR2) have much greater sensitiviy/performance than the external tuners. There is also the problem of overscan with the external tuners which is around 10% compared to the 2.5% LCD default and "full pixel" for 1080i broadcasts OTA. The Samsung's also had a 4 x 3 aspect problem which slightly distorted the image. (a circle was made to look oval) My MY-HD 120 computer tuner is close in performance to the Sony's but do not have the sensitivity and channel selection speed. My Sony TV's will pick up 67.1 whereas the MY-HD 120 will not. I do not know if the Sony tuners will handle 1080P but the external inputs will. I got fed up with the external tuners and gave them to my guru buddy.
> 
> JJK



The problem you describe on the Samsung should have been able to be handled by doing a zoom. I have a small 19" Samsung and it does not have that feature, but most HD televisions do. On my 37"LCD HD it has a selection called "just scan" where it is suppose to figure it out for you but sometimes it doesn't get it right.


On my old Sony CRT HD you could set it so that when you wern't on a HD channel you would revert to whatever your standard setting was. I believe I chose a setting that allowed you to have 4:3 shows in 16:9 but didn't stretch too much. However that oval circle you describe was exactly what I saw in that setting.


The only way to avoid that would be using the 4:3 settings with panels.


----------



## Andrew K

So I decided to just go out and purchase a Sanyo 42" HDTV today, and I'm very impressed with the built-in ATSC tuner. I use it to pick up OTA signals with my antenna, and the performance is much much better than the older model tuners. There is a huge difference between this tuner and the older one I have in my 26" Phillips HDTV, which is a few years old now. There is absolutely no break-ups in the picture. The old one couldn't even lock onto a signal.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15167663
> 
> 
> DTV tuners have progressed like any other technology. I believe DTV tuners are now on the 6th generation of tuner technology.
> 
> 
> However, unless I'm not understanding your post, I think you may be confusing DTV tuner types. If your goal is to receive OTA HD for display on your HDTV in HD resolution and digital audio then the coupon boxes are not what you are looking for. The $50 coupon boxes are converters (converting HD-DTV to analog audio and analog 480 video) and will not output HD resolutions nor digital audio. *There are very few "true" HD-DTV STB tuner boxes (outputting HD resolutions and digital audio) on the market and none would be even close to $50. You can expect to pay 3 times that for a "true" HD-DTV STB tuner.*



This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!










Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15170132
> 
> 
> This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.



I agree with you about your comments Nick. However, I have one of these downconversion boxes that I've had it for about 2 years. The box downconverts HD to 480i, and it is a very nice clean picture. It does not look crappy at all, and it is useing the composite connection







.

This is coming form a guy who is used to watching Blu-ray on an 8 ft wide screen, so...


----------



## Andrew K

So I bought this new 42" Sanyo HDTV today. I rescanned my cable channels on AT&T U-Verse, and I receive a lot more channels. This includes all the HD channels, and all the movie channels. Does anyone know what the deal is with this? I don't pay for any HD content or for any movie channels. Is it the tv?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15170221
> 
> 
> So I bought this new 42" Sanyo HDTV today. I rescanned my cable channels on AT&T U-Verse, and I receive a lot more channels. This includes all the HD channels, and all the movie channels. Does anyone know what the deal is with this? I don't pay for any HD content or for any movie channels. Is it the tv?



Maybe it's some kind of holiday free/promo deal.

Are you not useing a cable box from AT&T? If not, then you may be picking up extra QAM channels. Did your old tv have an ATSC and/or a QAM tuner in it also?

If your old tv also has tuners built in, and this new tv picks up more channels, then I may well be buying a new Sanyo tv soon







.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15170254
> 
> 
> Maybe it's some kind of holiday free/promo deal.
> 
> Are you not useing a cable box from AT&T? If not, then you may be picking up extra QAM channels. Did your old tv have an ATSC and/or a QAM tuner in it also?
> 
> If your old tv also has tuners built in, and this new tv picks up more channels, then I may well be buying a new Sanyo tv soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



It looks like AT&T U-Verse is offering the 400 channel package for this weekend.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15170171
> 
> 
> I agree with you about your comments Nick. However, I have one of these downconversion boxes that I've had it for about 2 years. The box downconverts HD to 480i, and it is a very nice clean picture. It does not look crappy at all, and it is useing the composite connection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> This is coming form a guy who is used to watching Blu-ray on an 8 ft wide screen, so...



I'm not doubting that the picture is any worse on downconvert, but my problem is that these boxes "pigeon hole" people who have them. If they ever decide to upgrade their equipment, the box is worthless. There should be more options with it so it won't be a waste in a few years when TVs are replaced.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15170461
> 
> 
> I'm not doubting that the picture is any worse on downconvert, but my problem is that these boxes "pigeon hole" people who have them. If they ever decide to upgrade their equipment, the box is worthless. There should be more options with it so it won't be a waste in a few years when TVs are replaced.



Umm, nickdawg...


The federal government's coupon program isn't meant to provide low-cost HDTV tuners to HD set owners.


It's meant to provide inexpensive DIGITAL TV RECEPTION to those who only have analog tuners.


When's the last time you could buy a true HDTV set that only had analog tuners? 2003?


Nowhere has the federal government or any of those providing information on its behalf (local TV stations, etc.) claimed that the coupon program was meant to provide HDTV. It's the *DIGITAL TV TRANSITION*, not the HDTV Transition.


If you spent the bucks on a true HD set and don't have a digital tuner built in, it's your problem.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15170132
> 
> 
> This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.




Yes but that defeats the entire purpose of the govt. issuing coupons (subsidizing the cost) in the first place. The coupon program is to help those that have analog TV's and utilize the public airwaves. If they have an HDTV then there is little need for a STB tuner for HD content.


If we are going to go down that road then the coupons could be used towards the purchase of a $5,000 HDTV. Hardly what the program was intended for.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15170525
> 
> 
> Umm, nickdawg...
> 
> 
> The federal government's coupon program isn't meant to provide low-cost HDTV tuners to HD set owners.
> 
> 
> It's meant to provide inexpensive DIGITAL TV RECEPTION to those who only have analog tuners.
> 
> 
> When's the last time you could buy a true HDTV set that only had analog tuners? 2003?
> 
> 
> Nowhere has the federal government or any of those providing information on its behalf (local TV stations, etc.) claimed that the coupon program was meant to provide HDTV. It's the *DIGITAL TV TRANSITION*, not the HDTV Transition.
> 
> 
> If you spent the bucks on a true HD set and don't have a digital tuner built in, it's your problem.




This response, and the way you said it came across to me as absolutely hilarious!

















I needed a laugh. Thanks!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15170775
> 
> 
> This response, and the way you said it came across to me as absolutely hilarious!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I needed a laugh. Thanks!



How? I didn't think it was 'hilarious' at all.


I have a two year old HDTV with one ATSC tuner. It's awful. Right now I can't pick anything up at all. But I hear about these new tuner boxes being able to pick up stations with a regular indoor antenna. I have an old house with a roof antenna and I tried rabbit ears. NOTHING.


I guess I'm gonna have to take a crappy SD only output box as backup if the cable goes out. I won't be laughing next March when the cable goes out and I have NO TV.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15170854
> 
> 
> I guess I'm gonna have to take a crappy SD only output box as backup if the cable goes out. I won't be laughing next March when the cable goes out and I have NO TV.



Look, this whole coupon thing isn't meant to help people who buy HDTVs. It's meant to help those who are losing their TV OTA because the government mandated that analog signals shut off entirely.


It's not meant to protect you from bad ATSC tuners in your HDTV.


You think I'm kidding?


Are you really serious about this?


----------



## Inundated

Repeat after me, nickdawg...and repeat slowly, so the words will sink in:


THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.


THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.


Once again,


THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15171040
> 
> 
> It's not meant to protect you from bad ATSC tuners in your HDTV.



Follow-up - from dtv2009.gov:



> Quote:
> The intent of the program is to allow consumers to continue to view TV over-the-air on the same TV they used prior to the transition, not to enable upgrades in technology.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15171049
> 
> 
> Repeat after me, nickdawg...and repeat slowly, so the words will sink in:
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.
> 
> 
> Once again,
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.



Why try?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15171049
> 
> 
> Repeat after me, nickdawg...and repeat slowly, so the words will sink in:
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.
> 
> 
> Once again,
> 
> 
> THERE IS NO HDTV MANDATE.



No f**king s**t!!!!


It's a transition from ANALOG to DIGITAL. NTSC to ATSC. 720p and 1080i are just as much ATSC formats as 480i/480p. Why is this a big deal? Does it honestly cost _that much_ more to put at least a component output on the box? Even most cheap Walmart DVD players are component capable and have an AC-3 digital audio output.


----------



## Smarty-pants

^^Analog TVs are only 480p capable. They try to make the boxes as "idiot proof" as possible. Too confusing for a lot of people to have the option of 720/1080 in the box. All kinds of people would need customer support to figure out why their tv won't work because they have the box set to output 1080.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15176031
> 
> 
> ^^Analog TVs are only 480p capable. They try to make the boxes as "idiot proof" as possible. Too confusing for a lot of people to have the option of 720/1080 in the box. All kinds of people would need customer support to figure out why their tv won't work because they have the box set to output 1080.



Yeah, that and anything beyond 480 would fall into the "technology upgrade" qualification which is forbidden (and for good reason







).


Besides, how many SD TV's have component input? I'd bet very few.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15176031
> 
> 
> ^^Analog TVs are only 480p capable. They try to make the boxes as "idiot proof" as possible. Too confusing for a lot of people to have the option of 720/1080 in the box. All kinds of people would need customer support to figure out why their tv won't work because they have the box set to output 1080.



Don't you mean "only 480i capable"?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15175929
> 
> 
> No f**king s**t!!!!
> 
> 
> It's a transition from ANALOG to DIGITAL. NTSC to ATSC. 720p and 1080i are just as much ATSC formats as 480i/480p. Why is this a big deal? Does it honestly cost _that much_ more to put at least a component output on the box? Even most cheap Walmart DVD players are component capable and have an AC-3 digital audio output.



You two want me to stop the car and turn around? Because I will!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15176121
> 
> 
> Yeah, that and anything beyond 480 would fall into the "technology upgrade" qualification which is forbidden (and for good reason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> 
> Besides, how many SD TV's have component input? I'd bet very few.



When my mom got a new TV back in 2005, of course I went with her. This was back when CRTs still ruled the TV department, so that is what we got. She decided to get a 32 inc Sharp TV and it has a component input. It is a 4x3 SDTV, but it does have the option for component input. I didn't really know that much about HDTV and inputs back then, so it wasn't a feature I looked for. But, especially if someone got a new TV in the last, I'll say three years or so, they may have a component input. Even scaled to 480i and 4x3 cut, that picture would be FAR better than analog OTA or even the SD digital cable she has now.


I'm surprised to see an opposition to "technology upgrade". Isn't that what this site is supposed to be about? Upgrading and better technology. I'd never say that blocking a technology upgrade is 'good'. AFAIC, "we" are in part paying for the converter boxes in this transition. And as someone who is partially finding this(we all are, unless you don't work) I want quality equipment. Why not make the coupons worth a little more so the consumer can get a better box?


But it is a *GOVERNMENT* program so the stupidity doesn't surprise me. I'd much rather have MY tax money go to help pay for a good HDTV converter than have 700 billion + wasted on Wall Street or now some jackasses want 25 billion + wasted on the auto makers.


----------



## JJkizak

Did anybody check to see if the Treasury Department had any "TARP" forms available for the Analog/Digital TV conversion?

JJK


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15176334
> 
> 
> AFAIC, "we" are in part paying for the converter boxes in this transition. And as someone who is partially finding this(we all are, unless you don't work)



Unless you bought some 700 MHz auctioned spectrum, none of your dollars are going toward the coupon program.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15170854
> 
> 
> How? I didn't think it was 'hilarious' at all.
> 
> 
> I have a two year old HDTV with one ATSC tuner. It's awful. Right now I can't pick anything up at all. But I hear about these new tuner boxes being able to pick up stations with a regular indoor antenna. I have an old house with a roof antenna and I tried rabbit ears. NOTHING.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm gonna have to take a crappy SD only output box as backup if the cable goes out. I won't be laughing next March when the cable goes out and I have NO TV.



I've only been glancing at the conversations you've been having. My first thought was it was just funny. It still is.


The "crappy SD" is so far superior from the analog you'll be able to survive a cable outage if necessary. Quite honestly I don't know how often you have cable outages in your area but I can only recall a couple and both were during the day.


And if you can't get anything from a roof top antenna don't expect to get much from rabbit ears. You may have to actually get up on your roof and point your antenna in a different direction for the old style antennas.


And that's what's going to really get people p.o.'d when the change comes. What once was a "snowy but kind of watchable picture" will be nothing. If you live in the outskirts of Cleveland you probably won't get a picture.


I once had a conversation with a cable tech about what's happened to picture signals in the early 90's. Why was it that when I lived in Hawthorne California as a kid I could get signals no problem and now I needed cable. He said basically too much interference with other signals, like microwave, satellite and such. Now we got digital wireless phones and everything else going on. No wonder you can't get an analog signal.


----------



## JJkizak

If I was a space alien I would have no problem finding this planet with all of the RF floating around.

JJK


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15176246
> 
> 
> You two want me to stop the car and turn around? Because I will!!!



Nah, I already abandoned the car. If he doesn't wanna listen, who am I to argue?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15177283
> 
> 
> If I was a space alien I would have no problem finding this planet with all of the RF floating around.
> 
> JJK



That's interesting. How would you know what a space alien would think UNLESS you ARE a space alien.










I have no idea what RF means. Rat Fink? Royal Flush?


----------



## jpasiczn

anyone else hearing crackling in the audio on WEWS ABC? trying to watch this football game and its terrible. TWC HD and OTA both giving me the same problem


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpasiczn* /forum/post/15178389
> 
> 
> anyone else hearing crackling in the audio on WEWS ABC? trying to watch this football game and its terrible. TWC HD and OTA both giving me the same problem



Yes, I'm also hearing it on the WEWS HD feed via TWC.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm not hearing it at all.


WEWS is known to have s..tty digital audio though.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15177283
> 
> 
> If I was a space alien I would have no problem finding this planet with all of the RF floating around.
> 
> JJK



Hehe... Watched a show last night where they mentioned research done by SETI (of all other groups!) suggests that RF leaving our rock dissipates and gets scrambled into the noise enough to be unrecognizable around two light-years out from here.


I wonder how small we really are in the universe.... E=MC2 be damned - there's a lot going on that we really don't understand...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15176334
> 
> 
> When my mom got a new TV back in 2005, of course I went with her. This was back when CRTs still ruled the TV department, so that is what we got. She decided to get a 32 inc Sharp TV and it has a component input. It is a 4x3 SDTV, but it does have the option for component input. I didn't really know that much about HDTV and inputs back then, so it wasn't a feature I looked for. But, especially if someone got a new TV in the last, I'll say three years or so, they may have a component input. Even scaled to 480i and 4x3 cut, that picture would be FAR better than analog OTA or even the SD digital cable she has now.
> 
> 
> I'm surprised to see an opposition to "technology upgrade". Isn't that what this site is supposed to be about? Upgrading and better technology. I'd never say that blocking a technology upgrade is 'good'. AFAIC, "we" are in part paying for the converter boxes in this transition. And as someone who is partially finding this(we all are, unless you don't work) I want quality equipment. Why not make the coupons worth a little more so the consumer can get a better box?
> 
> 
> But it is a *GOVERNMENT* program so the stupidity doesn't surprise me. I'd much rather have MY tax money go to help pay for a good HDTV converter than have 700 billion + wasted on Wall Street or now some jackasses want 25 billion + wasted on the auto makers.



Hey, I'm on your side. I wish a $50 STB existed with HD output, coupon or not. I have and use an HD output STB for OTA and QAM. But these run 3x that price for a decent one. Due to a very small market demand for such boxes there are very few mfr's of them and very few model #'s to choose from. This small selection of STB's is going to get even smaller as Samsung is discontinuing one of the more popular STB's with no current plans to replace it.


Where you and I part company is in what the govt should be subsidising for consumer electronics and keeping the setup and operation of these boxes as simple as possible. There are few times I agree with the govt's running of programs (stupidly, as you say







) but I completely agree with the limitations of the DTV Coupon program. The program's limitations make it so the consumer will have on Feb 17th exactly what they had on Feb 16th. Basic, simple, OTA reception of local TV broadcasts.


As for Component on analog TV's, I've owned 4 tubes and I've helped no less than 20 friends and family with their analog TV's over the past two years (antenna's, added equipment, setup issues, converter boxes, etc..). Out of the 50+ sets I saw a total of two sets had Component inputs. It's a very small segment of the analog market.


I'm not opposed to "technology upgrades" at all. I *am* opposed to our govt. subsidizing it. You can get govt cheese for free or you can buy your own cheese at the store, it's your choice.










If you don't like this govt program, just wait till you see what's coming.


----------



## JJkizak

RF---short for: weather radars, military radars, satellites, microwaves, police radios, fire radios, cb radios, ham operators, 60khz clock sync transmissions, wireless computers, wireless speakers, cell phones, am/fm radio, television, a/g radio transmissions, NASA transmissions, wireless ocean buoys, wireless labtops, wireless emergency traffic controls, NFL wireless helmets, etc.

JJK


----------



## ErieMarty

some NEW HD channels added to our TW lineup in NE OHIO..


I know the answer is probably NO !!!!!...but since its Chrismtmas I thought I would put it on my Christmas list hoping Santa would give me some new HD Channel options..


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15179873
> 
> 
> some NEW HD channels added to our TW lineup in NE OHIO..
> 
> 
> I know the answer is probably NO !!!!!...but since its Chrismtmas I thought I would put it on my Christmas list hoping Santa would give me some new HD Channel options..



.......have you been naughty or nice????


----------



## ErieMarty

I think I been Nice...not so sure about Time Warner Cable...


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15179615
> 
> 
> The program's limitations make it so the consumer will have on Feb 17th exactly what they had on Feb 16th. Basic, simple, OTA reception of local TV broadcasts.



Good point, toby10.


To paraphrase a statement someone else made a little over a month ago:


"No _*HD OTA*_ channels for the cheap asses who don't want to spring for a STB that's only $7 more a month."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...s#post14905860 


Assuming the set top box will be used for 3 years, $7/month x 36 months comes out to $252, more than enough for a decent STB you can keep.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15179803
> 
> 
> RF---short for: weather radars, military radars, satellites, microwaves, police radios, fire radios, cb radios, ham operators, 60khz clock sync transmissions, wireless computers, wireless speakers, cell phones, am/fm radio, television, a/g radio transmissions, NASA transmissions, wireless ocean buoys, wireless labtops, wireless emergency traffic controls, NFL wireless helmets, etc.
> 
> JJK



Now you've got me thinking... add bluetooh headsets, RFID, keyfob car locks, pacemakers, numerous other medical devices, wireless point-of-sale terminals, garage door openers... it gets pretty soupy in terms of RF.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15181544
> 
> 
> Now you've got me thinking... add bluetooh headsets, RFID, keyfob car locks, pacemakers, numerous other medical devices, wireless point-of-sale terminals, garage door openers... it gets pretty soupy in terms of RF.



And all of that is in 2008! When I had that conversation it was around 1992. So if analog was bad then, just imagine what it is like now.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently I have caught up to the time when they started opening up the rear speakers, and it sounds like crap.


nickdawg was right, this is faux Dolby. I can do the same thing by making all my speakers go. It was better off the way before, without the Dolby 5.1.


I tried to bypass it by putting my TiVo S3 to Dolby to PCM and then selected Dolby Pro Logic II. Now I don't know how or why but doing that caused the exact same thing as having it in Dolby 5.1.


I could try some of the other "effects" like Cinema and stuff but I didn't want to waste all night fooling with it.


I'm watching shows from around Halloween. Does it improve later or is it like this all the time?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15184952
> 
> 
> Apparently I have caught up to the time when they started opening up the rear speakers, and it sounds like crap.
> 
> 
> nickdawg was right, this is faux Dolby. I can do the same thing by making all my speakers go. It was better off the way before, without the Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> I tried to bypass it by putting my TiVo S3 to Dolby to PCM and then selected Dolby Pro Logic II. Now I don't know how or why but doing that caused the exact same thing as having it in Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> I could try some of the other "effects" like Cinema and stuff but I didn't want to waste all night fooling with it.
> 
> 
> I'm watching shows from around Halloween. Does it improve later or is it like this all the time?



I don't know. I've had *everything* in PCM for the last almost three weeks(thanks to a TWC/Navigator EAS test). What I noticed on WBNX is only network programming had surround sound, local inserted programming still is in WKYC mode(front L R only).


That's what Pro Logic II does. It takes a 2 channel source and stimulates surround sound. PCM actually does sound better. I watched "The Incredibles" on NBC Thursday and it sounded fantastic in PCM. Even "The Office" sounded better on NBC HD. It's a good way to fix the affiliate's f**k ups.


----------



## Jaydogg271




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15179873
> 
> 
> some NEW HD channels added to our TW lineup in NE OHIO..
> 
> 
> I know the answer is probably NO !!!!!...but since its Chrismtmas I thought I would put it on my Christmas list hoping Santa would give me some new HD Channel options..



I know Cox here is adding about 10 more Hd channels on December 9th...im pumped


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jaydogg271* /forum/post/15186138
> 
> 
> I know Cox here is adding about 10 more Hd channels on December 9th...im pumped



how many HD channels does that give you...(not counting Locals)..


what new ones are you getting...


at least someone is getting something for christmas


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15162533
> 
> 
> ONLY time you get a picture is when the Cavs are playing and the game is in HD..other then that..you get the wonderfull blue screen



Well, it should be for more than just the Cavs. On E* I get College Football games in HD on FS Ohio (BTW: they dropped "Net" from their name). Even STO had some recent HD content: 2 High School playoff games.


With satellite whenever there is no HD content we get screen saying "check back often to see if your favorite team is playing in HD". That screen is "mirrored" as in no waste of bandwidth (one screen mirrored to every RSN not currently showing HD content). Perhaps that blue screen on cable is done in a similar fashon.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15179267
> 
> 
> Hehe... Watched a show last night where they mentioned research done by SETI (of all other groups!) suggests that RF leaving our rock dissipates and gets scrambled into the noise enough to be unrecognizable around two light-years out from here.
> 
> 
> I wonder how small we really are in the universe.... E=MC2 be damned - there's a lot going on that we really don't understand...










My hope was that all our old RF was still intact out there waiting for a super fast space ship to catch up with all those classic live TV broadcasts from the 50's and record them and send them back here


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15170132
> 
> 
> This is what pisses me off about the coupon program. It's also further misinforming viewers about OTA HDTV. What they're seeing is HD downconverted to SD. The best of the worst boxes have an S-Video output. Yippee!! That would be sweet if it were 1995!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead, I think we should have boxes that will "grow" with the consumer's needs. It outputs true HD and downconvert. But no, the cheap government doesn't want to increase the value of the coupons and the manufactures are greedy and mark up the "good" boxes to ridiculous prices.



There is no need for the STB to "grow". When the consumer buys a new TV it will already have a built-in ATSC tuner that probably would run rings around the cheap converter boxes they sell today. Those boxes are temporary stop-gap measures for those who for whatever reason does not want to upgrade to an HDTV today.


----------



## Rbuchina

I just noticed that MGM HD is on channel 473 on TWC in Mentor. There is some army WWII movie on I'm not familiar with. There is an MGM HD logo on the bottom of ther screen. There is no guide info.

Is this new or did I miss something?


Ray


----------



## rlockshin

This is new. MOJO was dropped in lieu of this efective 12/1/08


----------



## rlockshin

AlsoTWC boxes in old Adelphia areas will have Navigator software added in May 09. They now have SARA. Transition was delayed


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/15192799
> 
> 
> AlsoTWC boxes in old Adelphia areas will have Navigator software added in May 09. They now have SARA. Transition was delayed



Yeah, right. May 09.










If someone told you May, I'd look for it in November.


Didn't you know that TW was going to SDV on October 20th? Oh, that didn't happen either did it?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/15192780
> 
> 
> This is new. MOJO was dropped in lieu of this efective 12/1/08



Is this on the upper tier like MOJO? Because if it is, I'm glad I decided to drop it.


Another waste of disk space.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15193086
> 
> 
> Yeah, right. May 09.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone told you May, I'd look for it in November.
> 
> 
> Didn't you know that TW was going to SDV on October 20th? Oh, that didn't happen either did it?



SDV is up and running. I have a few "test" channels in the 800s. Nothing special, just shopping and some sports tier channels.


To the OP of this, you made my week!! I'm so happy to hear the Adelphia people will finally be getting Navigator!!! HAHA!!!






































































See what it's like to have a sucky OS!!!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15193101
> 
> 
> Is this on the upper tier like MOJO? Because if it is, I'm glad I decided to drop it.
> 
> 
> Another waste of disk space.



I'm happy they added MGM HD. At least it is nothing I would want to watch. Now if TWC added USA HD today, I'd be in line turning in my boxes and canceling.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15194198
> 
> 
> SDV is up and running. I have a few "test" channels in the 800s. Nothing special, just shopping and some sports tier channels.



nickdawg, can you give me a couple of those channel numbers? I definitely can't see on my TiVo but I do see some duplicate channels like Discovery International.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15194198
> 
> 
> To the OP of this, you made my week!! I'm so happy to hear the Adelphia people will finally be getting Navigator!!! HAHA!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what it's like to have a sucky OS!!!



It shouldn't be hard for them to deal with. They've had crap for years now, it's just most don't realize it. Up until Navigator came out SARA was the worst of the two from what I read. And my own personal experience is well documented.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15194198
> 
> 
> I'm happy they added MGM HD. At least it is nothing I would want to watch. Now if TWC added USA HD today, I'd be in line turning in my boxes and canceling.



Why would you be glad that they are wasting bandwith space? Pay money for old war movies? This is just insane.


And I personally would welcome the return of USAHD. I record many of their shows now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15195628
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you be glad that they are wasting bandwith space? Pay money for old war movies? This is just insane.
> 
> 
> And I personally would welcome the return of USAHD. I record many of their shows now.



That was the point, if TWC added USAHD in the *HDTV Tier*, I would be pi**ed and cancel. We both know that TWC won't drop the "money tier" any time soon(unless HDNET goes under and Universal HD goes dark). So if they are going to add anything for a charge, let it be something stupid. Maybe they'll lose subscribers and start giving us four more channels for free?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15196332
> 
> 
> That was the point, if TWC added USAHD in the *HDTV Tier*, I would be pi**ed and cancel. We both know that TWC won't drop the "money tier" any time soon(unless HDNET goes under and Universal HD goes dark). So if they are going to add anything for a charge, let it be something stupid. Maybe they'll lose subscribers and start giving us four more channels for free?



Gee thanks for your response nickdawg. Now how about answering the other part of my post. I asked you what channels you were getting in the 800's that you believe are SDV?


If you're at work of course I understand.


MY point of adding the additional tier is that it still a waste of space.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, I just checked my box and rebooted it and in fact TWC seems to be getting on the ball with SDV. Channels 818-849 seem to be all SDV at this point but all but a couple seem to be disabled with the 'call customer service' banner. Channels up in the top of that list like 848 and 849 are enabled and working and mostly infomercial shopping channels. Checking in with the diag screen while tuning these channels they are showing up as valid SDV channels and tuning properly. The only thing is currently these channels do not show in the guide yet (at least on my box) but they are tunable.


Another thing I noticed is they have added a minor but sorely missed feature from Passport into navigator which is is you enter a non-existant channel number, it'll go ahead and tune to the next available channel in numerical order (or move to that channel if in the guide) rather than going 'wuuuuh?' and flashing question marks at you.


Also, seems they've been busy adding additional on demand channels and programming here and there. One of which is their Photoshow channel that touts being able to create your own slideshows with animations, music, etc. through a program provided through RR.com with your HSI service, upload it to their server, and then you can pull it up on the OD channel or give info to friends and family so they can watch it (dunno if it's cross-region capable or not.)


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15197817
> 
> 
> Gee thanks for your response nickdawg. Now how about answering the other part of my post. I asked you what channels you were getting in the 800's that you believe are SDV?
> 
> 
> If you're at work of course I understand.
> 
> 
> MY point of adding the additional tier is that it still a waste of space.



I couldn't agree more! I LOVED Mojo...seriously good channel believe it or not. Great shows like Three Sheets, Pressure Cook with Ralph Pagano and Getting Abroad. Funny & informative stuff and great looking shows. Now they replace the only thing that made the HD tier worth anything with a tired channel like MGM-HD! It makes HDnet Movies look good!! ha! I mean, where's Travel Channel HD? That would have been the logical replacement for MOJO as it has very similar shows. I know they offer that in other markets so they have the agreement. Even Animal Planet HD would be better. In my eyes they couldn't have picked a worse channel...very disapointing.


As of now that extra HD Tier is 99% worthless in my opinion. I'm sure somebody out there likes it, but I gotta tell ya....Yuck! I checked Dish Network out and if it wasn't more expensive by a good margin to get the functionality I have now (ie full function HD-DVR on three HDTV's, SD on 4 others)...I'd be switching. Unless TWC launches Buffalo's lineup here, if Dish ever makes their HD-DVR's cheaper or have two set functionality in HD, I'm switching.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15197958
> 
> 
> Another thing I noticed is they have added a minor but sorely missed feature from Passport into navigator which is is you enter a *non-existant channel number, it'll go ahead and tune to the next available channel in numerical order (or move to that channel if in the guide) rather than going 'wuuuuh?' and flashing question marks at you.*



Yeah, those channels are "hidden" on my TV too. The only way I found these was using the title search for "Human Wrecking Balls" on G4 and along with 329, another 8XX channel came up, but the SDV version is not turned on yet.


My TV doesn't do that. If I enter "409" the guide stays on the current chanel and doesn't do anything. I would expect it to go to "410" since it would be the next channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15199842
> 
> 
> Yeah, those channels are "hidden" on my TV too. The only way I found these was using the title search for "Human Wrecking Balls" on G4 and along with 329, another 8XX channel came up, but the SDV version is not turned on yet.
> 
> 
> My TV doesn't do that. If I enter "409" the guide stays on the current chanel and doesn't do anything. I would expect it to go to "410" since it would be the next channel.



Sounds wonderful!







Glad I have TiVo!


----------



## Jaydogg271




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15186371
> 
> 
> how many HD channels does that give you...(not counting Locals)..
> 
> 
> what new ones are you getting...
> 
> 
> at least someone is getting something for christmas



Right now we have

-all the locals

-nat geo hd

-universal hd

-nfl network hd

-fsn hd but only for cavs and blue jackets games

-palladia hd

-tbs hd

-tlc hd

-history channel hd

-A&E hd

-Espn HD

-Espn2 HD

-Big 10 HD

-Usa hd

-The weather channel Hd

-Hd Theatre

-Cnbc hd

-Discovery hd

-Tnt hd

-Lifetime hd

-cnn hd

-food network hd

-hgtv hd

-travel channel hd

-sportstime ohio hd


Were getting on december 9th Mtv hd, Amc hd, Nickelodeon hd, Spike hd, VH1 hd, Animal Planet hd, Hallmark movie channel hd, Sci-Fi hd, CMT hd, Bravo hd, Science channel hd, planet green hd, and Lifetime movie network hd.


----------



## JJkizak

Confucious say: "Too many channels make for sore thumb and blinky eyeballs."

JJK


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15199842
> 
> 
> Yeah, those channels are "hidden" on my TV too. The only way I found these was using the title search for "Human Wrecking Balls" on G4 and along with 329, another 8XX channel came up, but the SDV version is not turned on yet.
> 
> 
> My TV doesn't do that. If I enter "409" the guide stays on the current chanel and doesn't do anything. I would expect it to go to "410" since it would be the next channel.



Hrm. May either have been a fluke or my imagination. *shrug* I always found the feature invaluable though especially with the large list of channels and not knowing specific channel positions for 99% of it. I can just punch in an arbitrary channel number close to what I'm looking for and get to the general location in the guide rather than jamming the page up/dn buttons repeatedly for minutes.


Though I still await for them to add the C button 'title search' functionality where you highlight a program in the guide, hit 'C', and it goes to the title search list on that program so you can see additional showtimes rather than manually entering the show name every time.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Los Angeles just conducted a 2:00 DTV test. This is how it looked...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15202015
> 
> 
> Los Angeles just conducted a 2:00 DTV test. This is how it looked...



Only problem with that is if Cleveland did that today, anybody with Time Warner SDTV would also see that message. TWC is still taking SD locals from the analog feed, not the HDTV feed, as satellite does. I'm not sure how the cable setup is in LA, but the cable viewers have a chance at seeing that message as well under current conditions.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15202061
> 
> 
> Only problem with that is if Cleveland did that today, anybody with Time Warner SDTV would also see that message. TWC is still taking SD locals from the analog feed, not the HDTV feed, as satellite does. I'm not sure how the cable setup is in LA, but the cable viewers have a chance at seeing that message as well under current conditions.



Actually, that's something you'd have to take up with the stations themselves since, AFAIK, TWC's retrieving the channel feeds through fiber or other direct means for all but a few of the smaller stations. Logically those stations should be making it so the message doesn't air over the direct feed since they know it's going out to cable customers. And it's not all that difficult either. Just a case of putting the box generating the test pattern screen farthest up the line right before the transmitting equipment thus bypassing the direct feed.


Then again, when has logic or common sense ever played a role in anything here in Northern Ohio?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15202180
> 
> 
> Then again, when has logic or common sense ever played a role in anything here in Northern Ohio?



I believe I have tried to state that many times, but the very simplicity of expressing that never seems to come to me.


----------



## nickdawg

I have the list of the channels I get in the 830s/840s attached. This psycho text box editor for the forum kept screwing with my formatting, so it's attached. I don't know why it insists on making my channel abbreviations all lower case. I HATE that!!















 

NE OHIO SDV TEST CHANNELS 12-08.txt 0.1904296875k . file


----------



## Vchat20

Just to be thorough, I took the liberty of editing your list and further added more channels that are labeled as SDV here that were not in your list. Most seem to be spanish language clones of traditional programming.

 

NE OHIO SDV TEST CHANNELS 12-08v2.txt 0.3388671875k . file


----------



## toby10

I just had to laugh!










Last night I saw another DTV.gov commercial extolling the usual DTV benefits (better PQ and SQ....etc...) but now they added a new *benefit* that I had not seen on these commercials of "....and you'll get more FREE channels".


Wait till the new DTV coupon people see just what these extra free ch's actually are! LOL


"WOW Martha, look at all of these extra, free, crappy looking, weather ch's and stretcho-vision (my favorite nickdawg term







) programming we now get!"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15204049
> 
> 
> I just had to laugh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night I saw another DTV.gov commercial extolling the usual DTV benefits (better PQ and SQ....etc...) but now they added a new *benefit* that I had not seen on these commercials of "....and you'll get more FREE channels".
> 
> 
> Wait till the new DTV coupon people see just what these extra free ch's actually are! LOL
> 
> 
> "WOW Martha, look at all of these extra, free, crappy looking, weather ch's and stretcho-vision (my favorite nickdawg term
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) programming we now get!"



The funny part about it is most people *will not* even notice it.


I don't think people are that educated about HD. Have you heard some of the questions they have coming into FOX News at 6?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15204075
> 
> 
> The funny part about it is most people *will not* even notice it.
> 
> 
> I don't think people are that educated about HD. Have you heard some of the questions they have coming into FOX News at 6?



LOL.....no, but I can just imagine.










"Where do I place my DTV coupon box so the satellite can see it?"


----------



## Inundated

OK, a question on behalf of a relative of mine with DirecTV...are there any reputable satellite install guys who work in the Akron area!


Thanks!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15204049
> 
> 
> I just had to laugh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night I saw another DTV.gov commercial extolling the usual DTV benefits (better PQ and SQ....etc...) but now they added a new *benefit* that I had not seen on these commercials of "....and you'll get more FREE channels".
> 
> 
> Wait till the new DTV coupon people see just what these extra free ch's actually are! LOL
> 
> 
> "WOW Martha, look at all of these extra, free, crappy looking, weather ch's and stretcho-vision (my favorite nickdawg term
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) programming we now get!"


 http://www.pcworld.com/article/15442...ifference.html 


Many viewers can't even tell the difference. SHHHH! Don't let TWC hear that or else they might try to add more "HD" by just stretching the SDTV channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15203582
> 
> 
> Just to be thorough, I took the liberty of editing your list and further added more channels that are labeled as SDV here that were not in your list. Most seem to be spanish language clones of traditional programming.



I took a look at the entire channel range via my TiVo HD last night and while I can't say I definitely saw every channel you had on the list I saw the vast majority of them.


I don't think some of those channels I get, I just get the lower tier digital as my espanol es muy paquito, and G2 and all that other garbage is pretty much a waste of space. Some I did get however, but they were one's that I pay for (including G2).


Now if that's suppose to be SDV, I shouldn't be able to get them off my TiVo. So I'm confused as to what you are seeing. I think you may see them listed on your diagnostic as SDV but they arn't truly using them as such.


And if you didn't figure out what i said in Spanish was I speak very little. But when you're from L.A. somehow you pick up some of it.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, considering these channels only showed up just recently, I doubt they are putting them into full use just yet. But they do show up as SDV through the diag screen and even the channel labels are all suffixed with SDV (ie: 'TDC ESP SDV' for example.). Though on my system they all display the classic 'not subscribed. call customer service' banner aside from 848 and 849.


For all we know, with the whole tuning resolver mess and the class action suit fiasco elsewhere, NEO may be temporarily holding off till either situation clears up (just a hunch).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15211412
> 
> 
> I took a look at the entire channel range via my TiVo HD last night and while I can't say I definitely saw every channel you had on the list I saw the vast majority of them.
> 
> 
> I don't think some of those channels I get, I just get the lower tier digital as my espanol es muy paquito, and G2 and all that other garbage is pretty much a waste of space. Some I did get however, but they were one's that I pay for (including G2).
> 
> 
> Now if that's suppose to be SDV, I shouldn't be able to get them off my TiVo. So I'm confused as to what you are seeing. I think you may see them listed on your diagnostic as SDV but they arn't truly using them as such.
> 
> 
> And if you didn't figure out what i said in Spanish was I speak very little. But when you're from L.A. somehow you pick up some of it.



Did you try to watch those channels in the 800s? Example: Outdoor channel on 840, NOT 330?


The regular versions of those channels in the normal location are NOT SDV yet(the diagnostic screen only shows the 800s channels as SDV). As I typed and uploaded that list, I watched paid programs on channel SAH and I noticed that the picture froze several times. Plus the PQ is a little less than the normal non-SDV channel. I guess SDV is only up there since it is not quite ready for primetime yet.


----------



## paule123

I'm watching "Yanni Voices" on WEAO 49.1 OTA tonight and it looks like they've done a weird SD zoom thing - the PQ is SD quality, and is zoomed to almost fill the 16:9 frame, but there are thin black borders all around, top/bottom/right/left. Other PBS stations around the country indicate this program should be in HD.


The mighty Yanni PBS fundraising machine is back from from the dead!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15211682
> 
> 
> I'm watching "Yanni Voices" on WEAO 49.1 OTA tonight and it looks like they've done a weird SD zoom thing - the PQ is SD quality, and is zoomed to almost fill the 16:9 frame, but there are thin black borders all around, top/left/right/left. Other PBS stations around the country indicate this program should be in HD.
> 
> 
> The mighty Yanni PBS fundraising machine is back from from the dead!



Sadly, I think this is the new norm for WNEO-DT. The other day I caught part of the News Hour show. It was partially windowboxed on WNEO and SD quality. On WVIZ-DT it was full 16x9 and HD quality. I"m not sure why they would do that. Makes absolutely no sense that a LIVE program(on both SD and HD at same time) would not get HD.


Stupidity reigns at WNEO. Like I said before, if you donated in the past or plan on doing so, DON'T. Don't help fund someone who cannot properly broadcast in high definition.


I see your "720p sucks" signature. Funny thing is WNEO broadcasts natively in 720p(on TWC, not sure about OTA and WEAO). Before they started showing SD upconvert s..t, it actually didn't look _that_ bad, relative to other channels. But now it looks like they're showing 480i upconvert content, I could live with that since the major networks do it. But what makes the picture truly awful is the "zoom-o-vision" where letterbox programming is Blown Up to fit the screen. I despise that. Even with my own cable box, I watch letterboxed programming(USA, F/X, Discovery) in windowbox mode(bars on all sides) because the SD PQ gets degraded when it is expanded.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15211682
> 
> 
> ..............
> 
> The mighty Yanni PBS fundraising machine is back from from the dead!



Oh.............joy.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15212177
> 
> 
> Funny thing is WNEO broadcasts natively in 720p(on TWC, not sure about OTA and WEAO).



I had not noticed that before. Yep, it's 720p OTA on 49-1. That's bad news - means only one thing - they are cheating a little more bandwidth out of the main HD channel to make room for future subchannels.... Ugh.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15211627
> 
> 
> Did you try to watch those channels in the 800s? Example: Outdoor channel on 840, NOT 330?



Yes. That's what I said in my post.

*I took a look at the entire channel range via my TiVo HD last night*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15213798
> 
> 
> I had not noticed that before. Yep, it's 720p OTA on 49-1. That's bad news - means only one thing - they are cheating a little more bandwidth out of the main HD channel to make room for future subchannels.... Ugh.



I don't know, that's debatable. Many people prefer 720p to 1080i.


When I had a 1080i set I often felt 720p looked better, now I have a 720p set but My TiVo's are set to convert 1080i to 720p and 480i to 480p. I had to do this with one of my sets due to an issue with hdmi to dvi handshaking on one of my sets, and because the other set changes channels quicker with this set up.


That is a TiVo thing.


----------



## Trip in VA

Well, more bad news for WOIO-DT.


Canada is currently working on their post-transition allocation table, and it's coming in bit by bit on the FCC site. They're going alphabetically by province and then by city, and just yesterday got through London.


Yes, you guessed it, after the 2011 transition in Canada, CFPL-DT will return to 10, unless they request a different channel specifically.


Sorry folks, not sure what to tell you yet.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15214109
> 
> 
> Well, more bad news for WOIO-DT.
> 
> 
> Canada is currently working on their post-transition allocation table, and it's coming in bit by bit on the FCC site. They're going alphabetically by province and then by city, and just yesterday got through London.
> 
> 
> Yes, you guessed it, after the 2011 transition in Canada, CFPL-DT will return to 10, unless they request a different channel specifically.
> 
> 
> Sorry folks, not sure what to tell you yet.
> 
> 
> - Trip




I do. OTA may have to go cable or satellite if they want CBS.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15214109
> 
> 
> Well, more bad news for WOIO-DT.
> 
> 
> Canada is currently working on their post-transition allocation table, and it's coming in bit by bit on the FCC site. They're going alphabetically by province and then by city, and just yesterday got through London.
> 
> 
> Yes, you guessed it, after the 2011 transition in Canada, CFPL-DT will return to 10, unless they request a different channel specifically.
> 
> 
> Sorry folks, not sure what to tell you yet.
> 
> 
> - Trip



HeyTrip... where are you getting the info about Canadian allocations?


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&list=2&size=9 


There's a link to the London ON allocations. Adjust the "state" and "city" fields accordingly, blank out "city" and just modify "state" to see all allocations in a given province, or blank them both and just put something in for "call" to see a specific station.


- Trip


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15217271
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&list=2&size=9
> 
> 
> There's a link to the London ON allocations. Adjust the "state" and "city" fields accordingly, blank out "city" and just modify "state" to see all allocations in a given province, or blank them both and just put something in for "call" to see a specific station.
> 
> 
> - Trip



What burns me up is the fact that WOIO ws able to push WBNS off ch 10, even though that station had that channel for DECADES before WOIO was on the air! Ch 10 does not belong in Cleveland! If WOIO wanted to bo on a hi-VHF channel they should have picked another channel. CFPL-TV came in like a local TV station on the U.S. side of Lake Erie since I was a kid in the 60's. I even remember TV personalities and street names in London from viewing CFPL. Putting WOIO on ch 10 had to be the dumbest thing Raycom ever did.


Fortunately for some in the Cleveland DMA we can pick up WKBN-DT out of Youngstown. Now THAT's a signal! It covers from downtown Cleveland to downtown Pittsburgh! Unfortunately some inside the coverage map cannot get the signal due to terrain obstructions (and those are the people who need an alternate CBS the most - Lake County, along the shore of Lake Erie close to London Ontario signals).


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15217271
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&list=2&size=9
> 
> 
> There's a link to the London ON allocations. Adjust the "state" and "city" fields accordingly, blank out "city" and just modify "state" to see all allocations in a given province, or blank them both and just put something in for "call" to see a specific station.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks. Congrats on the new license!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15212177
> 
> 
> Stupidity reigns at WNEO. Like I said before, if you donated in the past or plan on doing so, DON'T. Don't help fund someone who cannot properly broadcast in high definition.



Yep, because it'll always be like this, and it can't possibly be a temporary technical problem, and they'll never change it, no matter what...they just want to frustrate HD viewers. It's their mission to tick people off!


nickdawg, I've got a deal for you.


Send your complaint above - copy and paste it if need be - to WNEO/WEAO in E-Mail. Give 'em a few days to respond. If they don't, or if their response isn't satisfactory, I promise to stop calling you out on this.


Here, I'll make it easy for you:

http://westernreservepublicmedia.org/reach.htm 


There are E-Mail links (I'm guessing the one for "Programming Questions" would be appropriate), phone numbers and even a mailing address on that page. They couldn't make it easier for you to reach them if they drove to your house and knocked on your door.


Do it. Share what they say, please.


Your above statement is about as ridiculous as calling for an advertiser boycott of channel 19, and we KNOW they have problems that they are not addressing.


----------



## Inundated

Repeating an earlier question:



> Quote:
> OK, a question on behalf of a relative of mine with DirecTV...are there any reputable satellite install guys who work in the Akron area?



We're looking specifically for one who can do an equipment upgrade for an existing customer.


And I'm looking at why I used an exclamation point instead of a question mark in the original message. I blame sleep.


----------



## mmadd29

I have a question which may be silly....but currently the Cleveland stations are on virtual stations, and their real digital stations, like CH 3 is on 17, but 3.1/2 virtual.


Once the transition occurs, will my TV display channel 3, as channel 17, or will there still be the 3.1/2 stations?


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmadd29* /forum/post/15225609
> 
> 
> I have a question which may be silly....but currently the Cleveland stations are on virtual stations, and their real digital stations, like CH 3 is on 17, but 3.1/2 virtual.
> 
> 
> Once the transition occurs, will my TV display channel 3, as channel 17, or will there still be the 3.1/2 stations?



It will say "3.1".... they will continue to labeled by their major channel... stations spent a fortune branding their stations as "Newschannel 5" or "Fox 8"... they didn't want to have to start over with "Newschannel 15"... actually "Fox 8" wouldn't have a problem. You get the idea. PSIP data.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15223882
> 
> 
> Repeating an earlier question:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're looking specifically for one who can do an equipment upgrade for an existing customer.
> 
> 
> And I'm looking at why I used an exclamation point instead of a question mark in the original message. I blame sleep.



From what I've been reading about early market shutoffs and even here, if someone knew how to install antennas, they could make a fortune in the next year or so. DTV requires an outside antenna in many cases.


Can't help you with your sat dish query... sorry. If you find someone, please share.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15225794
> 
> 
> It will say "3.1".... they will continue to labeled by their major channel... stations spent a fortune branding their stations as "Newschannel 5" or "Fox 8"... they didn't want to have to start over with "Newschannel 15"... actually "Fox 8" wouldn't have a problem. You get the idea. PSIP data.



The DTV transition would be the perfect time for "19 Action News" to totally change their image and rebrand, possibly using their new home on channel 10. Channel 19: 1986-2009. Perfect time to move on and change since that Action News format has been so successful!!


----------



## mmadd29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15226166
> 
> 
> The DTV transition would be the perfect time for "19 Action News" to totally change their image and rebrand, possibly using their new home on channel 10. Channel 19: 1986-2009. Perfect time to move on and change since that Action News format has been so successful!!



How can you not love Action News with the screaming weather man.....I just waiting for him to stroke out on tv...........


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> DIGITAL TV SOFT TEST: We've been railing about this for so long, we're wondering if they did it just to shut us up.
> 
> 
> The Ohio Association of Broadcasters has lined up TV stations statewide for an analog shutoff "soft test", on December 17th from 7:30-7:35 PM, two months before the "real thing". Stations will air a five minute interruption alerting analog viewers that they need to take action before February 17th to avoid losing their signal.
> 
> 
> Cincinnati Enquirer TV/radio guru John Kiesewetter has more in his blog. (We can't get the link to work in Firefox 3.0, so either use Internet Explorer or another browser if you're in the same boat...or use the "Blogs and Forums" > "Entertainment Blogs" menu to get to Kiese on that junk-laden, piece of crap website.)
> 
> 
> We're just guessing here, but it could look similar to this video (YouTube) from the Washington DC market. We've seen the exact same video airing in at least one other market, and we believe it's probably being given to local TV stations by the NAB or some other trade group to use in this testing.
> 
> 
> But viewers in Ohio's TV markets will also be directed to a local phone bank if they have any questions about the transition.
> 
> 
> In Cleveland, we hear the phone bank will be hosted at ideaStream PBS affiliate WVIZ/25...an oddity, when you consider that WVIZ's temporary digital signal can be seen (without cable) by roughly a few thousand lucky souls in southern Cuyahoga County...


 http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2008/1...irst-week.html 


Looks like December 17th will be the day we will have a CONFIRMED answer of whether or not TWC needs to upgrade their SDTV local channels(which are still the ANALOG feeds from the affiliates).


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15118904
> 
> 
> Well it sounds like you are noticing some minor picture degradation. My local analogs are simply not watchable at times. Multipath looking images, audio background noise, extremely grainy picture. The analogs beyond the locals seem to get progressively better the higher up the ch #'s, going from grainy but watchable to almost digital quality.
> 
> 
> Then, couple hours later, all of the analogs are crystal clear........but for how long????



Hey toby - I wanted to let you know that I had a tech out to my house today and it looks like the cable coming from the box into my house was kinked/cracked. After repairing the faulty cable, the channels are all notably sharper and my Internet download speed is over 8,000 kbps (before the fix it topped out at around 6,000 kbps).


You may want to have WOW out to diagnose. What you describe sounds like it could be caused by a degenerative cable.


----------



## JJkizak

Geez, I can't wait----Channel 19.1234567584932263547162534 NEWS!

JJK


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmadd29* /forum/post/15226233
> 
> 
> How can you not love Action News with the screaming weather man.....I just waiting for him to stroke out on tv...........



Jeff T. is the only weather person in Cleveland that reads the computer outputs and gives storm warning 2 or 3 days before the other rip and read people get to it.


----------



## HD MM

Any D* people trying to watch the Cavs game tonight?


The FSN-OH HD game only channel (660-1) isn't showing the game in HD. It's only available on channel 660 in lowly SD. What the heck is going on???


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/15228528
> 
> 
> Any D* people trying to watch the Cavs game tonight?
> 
> 
> The FSN-OH HD game only channel (660-1) isn't showing the game in HD. It's only available on channel 660 in lowly SD. What the heck is going on???



Nevermind, according to the link below, 65 of the Cavs 70 games being broadcast by FSN are scheduled to be in HD. Evidently tonight is 1 of the 5 times it's not scheduled to be in HD....

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5894594


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15226166
> 
> 
> The DTV transition would be the perfect time for "19 Action News" to totally change their image and rebrand, possibly using their new home on channel 10. Channel 19: 1986-2009. Perfect time to move on and change since that Action News format has been so successful!!



Look, sure there set is atrocious to look at but come on, their news itself is by far at least good for a laugh.


I watch FOX 8 all the time and I just don't know what they consider to be news. I'd say that 20% of their newscast is really news and the rest is fluff pieces and promotion of American Idol.


And their morning show? Why oh why in the world do they need two girls? The evening broadcast really irritates me when they do their top ten cout down and somebody writes about a story they wrote, like the deer with the pumpkin stuck on his head and they just read his question. What did happen? Answer the guy, you think he just wants it read on the show not to be answered?


All local news suck. They all just suck in different ways.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15229464
> 
> 
> I watch FOX 8 all the time and I just don't know what they consider to be news. I'd say that 20% of their newscast is really news and the rest is fluff pieces and promotion of American Idol.
> 
> 
> 
> All local news suck. They all just suck in different ways.



hahahaha































You watch FOX and you're making fun of 19?





















FOX is just as bad(sometimes even *worse*) than 19. Both are flashy, tabloid crap with obnoxious graphics and people. Both use extreme sensationalism(19's "Are the browns for sale?" ; 8's "Is Elvis alive?"). Plus FOX is, well *FOX*!! Plus I despise their global warming denier evening meteorologist. FOX is also responsible for almost every thing over the last ten years that has soiled the profession of journalism.


Although occasionally I will turn on "The O'LIElly Factor" when I need a good laugh!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15229580
> 
> 
> hahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watch FOX and you're making fun of 19?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOX is just as bad(sometimes even *worse*) than 19. Both are flashy, tabloid crap with obnoxious graphics and people. Both use extreme sensationalism(19's "Are the browns for sale?" ; 8's "Is Elvis alive?"). Plus FOX is, well *FOX*!! Plus I despise their global warming denier evening meteorologist. FOX is also responsible for almost every thing over the last ten years that has soiled the profession of journalism.
> 
> 
> Although occasionally I will turn on "The O'LIElly Factor" when I need a good laugh!!



The only reason I watch FOX is because it's the only local news on in the morning. Yes, I can put on channel 3 and the Today show and probably get just what I need from there local breaks but my wife likes things to stay the same and she would start saying "Who are these people in my house (it would take her a day or two to notice)?










I like channel 3 on the weekends. And the FOX news channel with their conservative outlook was very laughable, specially over the last years. Even they stopped trying to defend Bush.


----------



## JJkizak

Nickdawg:

I receive OTA 25, 25.1 solid as a rock. 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, are solid but there is a lot of pixelation on fades, movement, and the quality is generally in the "fair to poor" range. 25.9 is ok but I never listen to it.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15231221
> 
> 
> Nickdawg:
> 
> I receive OTA 25, 25.1 solid as a rock. 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, are solid but there is a lot of pixelation on fades, movement, and the quality is generally in the "fair to poor" range. 25.9 is ok but I never listen to it.
> 
> JJK



You must have one hell of a big antenna to get 25.1 "solid as a rock".

I'm probably 5 miles closer than Twinsburg and I have an amplified, omni-directional, outdoor antenna, above my chimney, two story house. Result is that 25.1 is not even available 70% of the time, remaining 30% when I get a *glimmer* of a signal it's continuous audio & video drops.










Granted, my antenna is on the smaller side as a 23" platter/saucer shape.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15229580
> 
> 
> hahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You watch FOX and you're making fun of 19?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOX is just as bad(sometimes even *worse*) than 19. Both are flashy, tabloid crap with obnoxious graphics and people. Both use extreme sensationalism(19's "Are the browns for sale?" ; 8's "Is Elvis alive?"). Plus FOX is, well *FOX*!! *Plus I despise their global warming denier evening meteorologist.* FOX is also responsible for almost every thing over the last ten years that has soiled the profession of journalism.
> 
> 
> Although occasionally I will turn on "The O'LIElly Factor" when I need a good laugh!!



Well, if you despise "global warming denier" meteorologists, you better move to another DMA. *Meteorologists from ALL 4 Cleveland stations agree that global warming is B.S.*. All four were intervied on WTAM's Bob Frantz show after the PD published an article about the meteorologists consensus regarding the Al Gorian lie.


Also compairing broadcast FOX to FOX News Channel is illogical. I have NEVER heard anything on FOX 8 News that compairs to FNC - ever!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/15228528
> 
> 
> Any D* people trying to watch the Cavs game tonight?
> 
> 
> The FSN-OH HD game only channel (660-1) isn't showing the game in HD. It's only available on channel 660 in lowly SD. What the heck is going on???



I was about to post the same thing since the game was SD only on Dish Network as well. What I don't understand is the Q is equiped with HD cameras and switching already, why not go 100% HD? I could understand an away game at an arena without HD, but not any game at the Q. BTW on one of the "ALT." channels the game was in HD but unavailable to my receiver (It probably was the Pacer's RSN coverage).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15233574
> 
> 
> Well, if you despise "global warming denier" meteorologists, you better move to another DMA. *Meteorologists from ALL 4 Cleveland stations agree that global warming is B.S.*. All four were intervied on WTAM's Bob Frantz show after the PD published an article about the meteorologists consensus regarding the Al Gorian lie.
> 
> 
> Also compairing broadcast FOX to FOX News Channel is illogical. I have NEVER heard anything on FOX 8 News that compairs to FNC - ever!



Really it is unfair to associate FOX 8 News with FNC. FNC deals with real news and FOX 8 is a mixture of news and God knows what.


I won't debate the global warming issue with you here, but holding Cleveland meteorologist as some kind of authority on it does not impress me nor does it give any credence to the idea of if global warming is indeed an issue or not.


----------



## JJkizak

Cleveland TV meteorologists haven't a clue as to how the Earths climate functions. They report weather conditions and that's it. "Weather" and "Climate" are two different functional categorys, the first thing you learn when you are a scientist.

JJK


----------



## JJkizak

Toby 10:

My antenna is a DC-9000, 177" long VHF/UHF, 30 ft RG6 lead in with 2 splitters and no amplifiers. I tried three different amplifiers and the results were poor. It is fixed in direction between channel 25 analog and 23 analog. 49.1 is pretty solid but does give problems at times. 67.1 is the weakest and gives problems about 50% of the time. The antenna is about 3 ft. above the chimney and aiming through a huge amount of trees. I am located about 3/4 of the way up a hill.

JJK


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15234499
> 
> 
> My antenna is a DC-9000, 177" long VHF/UHF



Is this a typo? A 15-foot antenna? If so, you should be able to pick up LPTV signals from Mars....










(Sorry - I'm in a nit-picking mode right now.)


mike


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15236680
> 
> 
> Is this a typo? A 15-foot antenna? If so, you should be able to pick up LPTV signals from Mars....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Sorry - I'm in a nit-picking mode right now.)
> 
> 
> mike



Based on his ability to get 25.1 as a solid signal, from that distance, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15236954
> 
> 
> Based on his ability to get 25.1 as a solid signal, from that distance, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.



Well, if he is in Cuyahoga Falls then that is still pretty amazing IMHO. That's a pretty good distance from Cleveland and WVIZ's transmitting problems are well documented.


I'm no expert on OTA but I do know that's a heck of a job to pull that channel in all the way from Cuyahoga Falls.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15237029
> 
> 
> Well, if he is in Cuyahoga Falls then that is still pretty amazing IMHO. That's a pretty good distance from Cleveland and WVIZ's transmitting problems are well documented.
> 
> 
> I'm no expert on OTA but I do know that's a heck of a job to pull that channel in all the way from Cuyahoga Falls.



His profile says Twinsburg, Cuyahoga Falls would be even further.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15237041
> 
> 
> His profile says Twinsburg, Cuyahoga Falls would be even further.



My bad, I was looking at mnowlins post, a little confusion.


Yes I'd say being in Twinsburg would be a bit more beneficial. I think where I live in Bainbridge Twp with the hills and trees around me I'd need a 15 foot antenna just to pick up any channels. Hence cable.....


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

I used to live in Spring Valley in 1957 before they built the bridge and you had to go down Crackel/Haskins road the back way to get home. At that time I had a Heathkit TV with another huge antenna (VHF) with RG-8 50 ohm cable and 20db of pad to keep the tv from overloading. The antenna was just at the peak of the roof on the ranch style house. There were also tons of trees that we paid extra for when we bought the house for $13,000.00 (no garage) and they all eventually died. I later rented an apartment in Chagrin Falls and hung that huge antenna from the living room ceiling.

PS: If you lived at Beacon Hill you would have an un-obstructed shot OTA to all the stations.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15237449
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> I used to live in Spring Valley in 1957 before they built the bridge and you had to go down Crackel/Haskins road the back way to get home. At that time I had a Heathkit TV with another huge antenna (VHF) with RG-8 50 ohm cable and 20db of pad to keep the tv from overloading. The antenna was just at the peak of the roof on the ranch style house. There were also tons of trees that we paid extra for when we bought the house for $13,000.00 (no garage) and they all eventually died. I later rented an apartment in Chagrin Falls and hung that huge antenna from the living room ceiling.
> 
> JJK



If you can remember 1957 then you're probably older then I am.







The earliest memories I have go back to around that time when I was 4 and my Dad took me to the Los Angeles Coliseum to see the Dodgers. We parked the car somewhere and took a trolly to the Coliseum. My dad brought in a bottle of booze with him into the ball park.......if you could call that thing a ball park. It was at that time he told me, "son, you will be a Dodger fan."










I wouldn't have any idea about antenna's or anything else.


----------



## ajstan99

Has anyone else noticed an increase in signal strength on WVIZ OTA this weekend? The meter on my STB had been around 41-45 (out of 100, other locals are at 95), but this weekend, it's been around 78-82.


----------



## Inundated

Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.


Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!


Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15239221
> 
> 
> Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.
> 
> 
> Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!
> 
> 
> Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts.




I use to be able to pick this HD channel up after doing a QAM scan .but its no longer on 19.1..any idea where they moved it to


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15238994
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed an increase in signal strength on WVIZ OTA this weekend? The meter on my STB had been around 41-45 (out of 100, other locals are at 95), but this weekend, it's been around 78-82.



Nope. No better here.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15239337
> 
> 
> I use to be able to pick this HD channel up after doing a QAM scan .but its no longer on 19.1..any idea where they moved it to



You've asked this question a few dozen times before, eh?










I'm not going to answer, because A) I don't know the answer and B) no one else here or in the Erie thread apparently does, either.


But just a general point of information.


QAM channels, especially those from out of your local market, come and go sometimes like the wind. Even the locals occasionally get moved around, since TWC and other cable companies are not advertising those channels at all (they want you to get a box).


So, if you have an unusual QAM channel, like Cleveland affiliates in Erie, you have it until it goes away, and it may or may not ever come back. It's a side effect, not provided on purpose. (If it was, they'd map it to a channel on a digital cable box.)


You can ask this question over, and over, and over again...and you're probably not going to get an answer. But that's just a general guideline.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15239924
> 
> 
> You've asked this question a few dozen times before, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not going to answer, because A) I don't know the answer and B) no one else here or in the Erie thread apparently does, either.
> 
> 
> But just a general point of information.
> 
> 
> QAM channels, especially those from out of your local market, come and go sometimes like the wind. Even the locals occasionally get moved around, since TWC and other cable companies are not advertising those channels at all (they want you to get a box).
> 
> 
> So, if you have an unusual QAM channel, like Cleveland affiliates in Erie, you have it until it goes away, and it may or may not ever come back. It's a side effect, not provided on purpose. (If it was, they'd map it to a channel on a digital cable box.)
> 
> 
> You can ask this question over, and over, and over again...and you're probably not going to get an answer. But that's just a general guideline.



I know..just frustrated I was able to get channel 19.1...in Erie and ever since the browns NFL Network game .channels 19.1 and 43.1 are gone..


just thought someone on this side might know where it ended up or what happened to it..


Even though the browns suck...I still want to watch them when the game isn't on in Erie


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15239924
> 
> 
> You can ask this question over, and over, and over again...and you're probably not going to get an answer. But that's just a general guideline.



In ErieMarty's case he is persistent in asking questions that nobody can answer.


Don't take offense ErieMarty, it's OK. I noticed the other day you asked (again) if anybody knew of any new HD channels.







. I was almost tempted to say why yes, on December 25 we will have FX, USA, and SPIKE in HD and say I had a new contact but that would be cruel and unusual punishment, I just couldn't do it to you.


----------



## nickdawg

WOW, was Hookbill right a few weeks back about how awful the sound is on WBNX. I had PCM-only sound for the last three weeks(my box rebooted this week). Now I'm watching "Drew Carey" and I'm getting WKYC style sound(claims to be 3/2.1 but only L/R work) and the bass channel is oppressive. I had to change my settings just for this to be watchable. Now I'm usually a guy who likes bass, especially in my music, but the lows are too much on WBNX. It's drowning out the dialogue.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15240065
> 
> 
> I know..just frustrated I was able to get channel 19.1...in Erie and ever since the browns NFL Network game .channels 19.1 and 43.1 are gone..
> 
> 
> just thought someone on this side might know where it ended up or what happened to it..
> 
> 
> Even though the browns suck...I still want to watch them when the game isn't on in Erie



Marty, asking the question a half-dozen times or so in each thread isn't going to make anyone answer it quicker.







I'm maybe a bit oversensitive to your repeated questions because I do also read the Erie thread.


And you nailed it with your last sentence: "when the game isn't on in Erie". The QAM channels, as I said, are incidental. The channels the cable companies want you to watch are on the box (or analog cable).


You only get Cleveland channels on QAM up there at all because the city system, I believe it is, is on the same network as the Akron/Canton systems. In theory, they should probably be filtering out all of the Cleveland market channels on QAM if they aren't offering them either on digital cable (box) or analog.


You should feel fortunate that you were able to get 19 on QAM *OUT OF MARKET* for as long as you did, and if it comes back, cross all your fingers and toes that it stays along.


Out of market stations on QAM are an ACCIDENT, not something TWC delivers on purpose.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15240736
> 
> 
> I had to change my settings just for this to be watchable. Now I'm usually a guy who likes bass, especially in my music, but the lows are too much on WBNX. It's drowning out the dialogue.



You should organize a boycott of WBNX's advertisers, since They Don't Know How To Do Digital Audio. so they shouldn't be supported.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15241149
> 
> 
> You should organize a boycott of WBNX's advertisers, since They Don't Know How To Do Digital Audio. so they shouldn't be supported.



What doesn't make sense is if you download a CW show from bit torrent in 720p, and yes I know people say it isn't true HD, it does light up Dolby and sounds exactly like Dolby 5.1 should.


It's almost like they have somebody doing the sound engineering who has no idea how to do it.


It sounded slightly better on the last Smallville I watched. I actually heard a door slam out of my right rear speaker all by itself. But it still not right.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15242128
> 
> 
> What doesn't make sense is if you download a CW show from bit torrent in 720p, and yes I know people say it isn't true HD, it does light up Dolby and sounds exactly like Dolby 5.1 should.
> 
> 
> It's almost like they have somebody doing the sound engineering who has no idea how to do it.
> 
> 
> It sounded slightly better on the last Smallville I watched. I actually heard a door slam out of my right rear speaker all by itself. But it still not right.




How are you getting 5.1 sound? Did you burn it to DVD before watching it? I only get stereo sound out of my computer.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15242403
> 
> 
> How are you getting 5.1 sound? Did you burn it to DVD before watching it? I only get stereo sound out of my computer.



I'll venture a guess - he transferred the BT to his TiVo...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15242128
> 
> 
> What doesn't make sense is if you download a CW show from bit torrent in 720p, and yes I know people say it isn't true HD, it does light up Dolby and sounds exactly like Dolby 5.1 should.



From what I've learned, people who transcode 1-hour 6GB recorded files down to the standard 350MB BT format generally focus on the video part of the stream, leaving the audio portion as-is. I haven't done the math, but I suspect that there's not much to be gained (relatively) in converting 5.1 down to 2-channel for BT downloads.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15243055
> 
> 
> I'll venture a guess - he transferred the BT to his TiVo...



That's correct. With either PyTiVo or TiVo Desktop Plus via PC this is possible. I have a formula to do it with my Mac but I haven't tried it yet.


Just another thing TiVo can do that those other DVR's can't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15243088
> 
> 
> From what I've learned, people who transcode 1-hour 6GB recorded files down to the standard 350MB BT format generally focus on the video part of the stream, leaving the audio portion as-is. I haven't done the math, but I suspect that there's not much to be gained (relatively) in converting 5.1 down to 2-channel for BT downloads.



I see more and more offerings now of 720p network shows, and more people are leeching and seeding them. They run about 6GB or so which is right around what a regular HD show is for an hour.


And you are correct about the audio on those 350 mb shows they are in stereo but if you load it directly to your TiVo you will still get a 16:9 picture.


When I had the SA 8300 I had to download it to my computer, then I used a program to change the .avi file to DVD format and burn to DVD. I'd say about 5% of the time the audio would be way out of synch. I have the Prison Break and Sara Conner Chronicles downloaded somewhere. Maybe if I get a chance today I'll get the formula out for setting those up for transfer off the mac. If I can't I'll send them back to my old PC and just turn on PyTiVo again and do it that way.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15239221
> 
> 
> Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.
> 
> 
> Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!
> 
> 
> Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts.



ha! I came to post this very same thing! They've done this all season. How is it possible that every other station in the world has the ability to show a scroller over an HD feed yet WOIO can't seem to do it without switching to SD! So lame, but then again it seems they were always behind the times such as not having DD5.1 while everyone else had it.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15239221
> 
> 
> Yes, WOIO, I know you have a stupid post-game show...and you have to take the game out of HD to tell us with an onscreen crawl at the start of the second half.
> 
> 
> Do it again, and I won't watch the stupid post-game show!
> 
> 
> Wait...the Browns stink so bad, I might stop watching the game before the post-game show even starts.



Shucks, I missed that event. I watch the Browns games on WKBN-DT







to you WOIO!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15234499
> 
> 
> Toby 10:
> 
> My antenna is a DC-9000, 177" long VHF/UHF, 30 ft RG6 lead in with 2 splitters and no amplifiers. I tried three different amplifiers and the results were poor. *It is fixed in direction between channel 25 analog and 23 analog.* 49.1 is pretty solid but does give problems at times. 67.1 is the weakest and gives problems about 50% of the time. The antenna is about 3 ft. above the chimney and aiming through a huge amount of trees. I am located about 3/4 of the way up a hill.
> 
> JJK



I hate to tell you this but your antenna is aimed at no-man's land. 25 analog is in North Roaylton, 23 is in West Akron. No other stations from either Cleveland or Akron are located in that direction. Aiming in that direction would give you the same lousy reception on all the local stations. (wait a minute you are probably aimed at Mansfield so WMFD-DT on ch 12 might come in if the atmosphere is just right)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15245661
> 
> 
> Shucks, I missed that event. I watch the Browns games on WKBN-DT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to you WOIO!



Holding my indoor Philips amplified antenna and pointing it out the office window here, in just the right direction, is getting me WKBN-DT fairly regularly these days.


Of course, it's winter, the tall trees in that general direction near my property have thinned out, and the position requires me to hold my arm twisted up in the air.










I'm still contemplating trying for an outdoor antenna on the deck of my condo, though I won't even need that for all the Cleveland locals once 3 scoots to 17 digitally, and whenever 25/26 goes full power.


I'd basically be spending the money on the antenna in the hope of getting at least one Youngstown station (WKBN) regularly.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15245795
> 
> 
> I hate to tell you this but your antenna is aimed at no-man's land. 25 analog is in North Roaylton, 23 is in West Akron. No other stations from either Cleveland or Akron are located in that direction. Aiming in that direction would give you the same lousy reception on all the local stations. (wait a minute you are probably aimed at Mansfield so WMFD-DT on ch 12 might come in if the atmosphere is just right)



If he's aiming at 23, that's pretty much the same, nearly exact location of 49/50. 23 is off Wadsworth Road near Romig/V. Odom/Wooster Rd. north of Rolling Acres, and 49 is not that terribly far away off Cleveland-Massillon Road in Copley.


WDLI-DT is right there just down the hill from WVPX.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15248444
> 
> 
> Holding my indoor Philips amplified antenna and pointing it out the office window here, in just the right direction, is getting me WKBN-DT fairly regularly these days.
> 
> 
> Of course, it's winter, the tall trees in that general direction near my property have thinned out, and the position requires me to hold my arm twisted up in the air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still contemplating trying for an outdoor antenna on the deck of my condo, though I won't even need that for all the Cleveland locals once 3 scoots to 17 digitally, and whenever 25/26 goes full power.
> 
> 
> I'd basically be spending the money on the antenna in the hope of getting at least one Youngstown station (WKBN) regularly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he's aiming at 23, that's pretty much the same, nearly exact location of 49/50. 23 is off Wadsworth Road near Romig/V. Odom/Wooster Rd. north of Rolling Acres, and 49 is not that terribly far away off Cleveland-Massillon Road in Copley.
> 
> 
> WDLI-DT is right there just down the hill from WVPX.



1.) WKBN-DT has a mamoth coverage area. You don't need the leaves to fall off the trees to get it. I get it 24/7 365 days/year from the shadow of the Cleveland towers! You don't even need an amplified antenna. All you need is a good outdoor antenna aimed roughtly due East (depending on your location maybe a little bit N or S of due east). They have the tallest tower and plenty of power!


Here is their coverage area: WKBN-DT from Downtown Cleveland to Downtown Pittsburgh! 


The only areas inside the circle to not get WKBN-DT are blocked by nearby terrain (especially Lake County who needs an alternate CBS the most due to CFPL in London Ontario).


2.) Reread the original post I quoted from, he's aiming *between* WVPX and WVIZ from Twinsburg. That's a hole big enough to swallow Medina. The nearest TV station in that direction is WMFD-DT on ch 12 - and that signal would never reach Twinsburg anyway. While antennas have, for lack of a technical term, a "fudge factor", the distance between the Cleveland and Akron tower sites from a location roughly half-way between and to the East, is far too wide to split the difference.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15249177
> 
> 
> 1.) WKBN-DT has a mamoth coverage area. You don't need the leaves to fall off the trees to get it.



Well, now, pretty much, I do. The trees are close enough that they cause a problem.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15249177
> 
> 
> The only areas inside the circle to not get WKBN-DT are blocked by nearby terrain (especially Lake County who needs an alternate CBS the most due to CFPL in London Ontario).



I think there are possibly other terrain issues between here (former Northampton Twp. near Cuy. Falls) and Youngstown, no?


I just want to be able to "set and forget" some sort of outdoor antenna on the deck, and be assured of getting WKBN-DT all (or nearly all) the time. I'm not going to spend the money if I get WKBN less than 20% of the time.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15249177
> 
> 
> 2.) Reread the original post I quoted from, he's aiming *between* WVPX and WVIZ from Twinsburg. That's a hole big enough to swallow Medina.



Yeah, I saw that...and I was basically suggesting that he aim AT WVPX, and maybe nudge just a little bit (a very small nudge) to try to improve WEAO-DT.


----------



## JJkizak

Michael P 2341:

Sometimes I have a communication problem. I miss-stated. I should have said the antenna is aimed just a tad off 25 so that 23 would be steady but a bit blurry. If I aimed the antenna directly at 25 channel 23 would almost dis-appear. This translated to about 1/2" of rotation. I have no idea where 23 is located nor 49. Occasionally Toledo 11 and 13 will boom in with some ducting. And while this happens if you do a rescan the digital channels from Toledo will screw up the digitals located here and you have to wait for the Toledo channels to weaken to do a rescan to set things right again.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

hey nickdawg, I'd like to hear from you on a follow up on the issue about missed recordings. Still having any troubles there?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15250667
> 
> 
> hey nickdawg, I'd like to hear from you on a follow up on the issue about missed recordings. Still having any troubles there?



Is it safe to come out yet?







h34r:







h34r:


All my recordings have been OK lately. I record Becker and Married with Children in the early hours and they've been fine the past few weeks. Only once last Sunday it didn't work when I recorded Mw/C and Good Morning America. I'm not sure what the problem was, but I guess it fixed itself. ANd the Dolby audio is back







after the box finally rebooted. And it went a whole *THREE WEEKS* with no reboot!! That's unhead of with Navigator!










SDV is also still there. I discovered some new channels in the 860s. They're all shopping channels and I tried watching them the other day. All I can say is SDV is a big turd dragon!!! Some of the channels have blank screens or say "This Channel Is Currently Unavailable", "Please Try Again Later". WTF? Is that going to happen once SDV goes live on the regular lineup? Will I have to put up with "unavailable channels"? That's bulls...! And what about when they start putting HD on SDV. Sorry, you don't get to watch the Indians on STO HD, SDV is currently on a beach in the Bahamas.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15249229
> 
> 
> I just want to be able to "set and forget" some sort of outdoor antenna on the deck, and be assured of getting WKBN-DT all (or nearly all) the time.



250' tower?????


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15251336
> 
> 
> All I can say is SDV is a big turd dragon!!! Some of the channels have blank screens or say "This Channel Is Currently Unavailable", "Please Try Again Later". WTF? Is that going to happen once SDV goes live on the regular lineup? Will I have to put up with "unavailable channels"? That's bulls...! And what about when they start putting HD on SDV. Sorry, you don't get to watch the Indians on STO HD, SDV is currently on a beach in the Bahamas.



Current TWC implementation issues aside (and there are many, including their choice of using the SA8300 boxes), this will always be a potential issue with SDV. The only way to avoid this would be for TWC to have one SDV slot available for every SDV channel available in a given distribution area. Any less than this would mean that if SDV traffic is heavy in that area, somebody's going to get a "channel unavailable" message. If they do make enough slots available, it pretty much destroys any bandwidth savings, making SDV pointless in the first place.


Edit: There is a situation where this wouldn't be true: if TWC had more SDV channels available than the total number of tuners in the area, and they allocated one SDV slot for each tuner. VERY unlikely.


----------



## Smarty-pants

...Big Turd Dragon...







LOL


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15251545
> 
> 
> Current TWC implementation issues aside (and there are many, including their choice of using the SA8300 boxes), this will always be a potential issue with SDV. The only way to avoid this would be for TWC to have one SDV slot available for every SDV channel available in a given distribution area. Any less than this would mean that if SDV traffic is heavy in that area, somebody's going to get a "channel unavailable" message. If they do make enough slots available, it pretty much destroys any bandwidth savings, making SDV pointless in the first place.
> 
> 
> Edit: There is a situation where this wouldn't be true: if TWC had more SDV channels available than the total number of tuners in the area, and they allocated one SDV slot for each tuner. VERY unlikely.



Well here's the thing: Currently they have not actually 'activated' SDV in terms of what the large majority of the public is going to be using. In addition, until they actually get it 100% up, they have to keep the traditional channels up which ultimately cuts down on what SDV QAM slots they have available to use.


Once they get SDV completely up and running to the point that it is pushed out to every single box and the traditional channel numbers are pulling from SDV frequencies on channels they have actually pooled into the SDV lineup, I'm pretty sure these supposed 'problems' will be negated.


Fact is right now we are essentially seeing and using what one could consider a 'beta' or 'alpha' version while TWC irons out all the kinks. It's just a side effect that those of us savvy enough can actually get in on it at this stage.


All in all, the whole idea for SDV's major bandwidth savings is taking the nearly dead channels such as all these infomercial channels for example and putting them into the SDV lineup where they can ultimately cut them out of the aggregated bandwidth usage 99% of the time when they aren't being watched. More commonly watched channels like the premium movie channels and your locals will remain on the traditional system because there would be virtually no gain there moving them to SDV.


----------



## nickdawg

Considering we are talking about TWC, I'm surprised that they didn't beta or alpha test SDV live on the regular channels(I know STO HD is supposed to be SDV one day). They tested navigator on the unsuspecting public(and the OCAP version isn't even fit to be an alpha test!).


'Big Turd Dragon'===I knew that would get some attention!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15251336
> 
> 
> Is it safe to come out yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> h34r:
> 
> 
> All my recordings have been OK lately. I record Becker and Married with Children in the early hours and they've been fine the past few weeks. Only once last Sunday it didn't work when I recorded Mw/C and Good Morning America. I'm not sure what the problem was, but I guess it fixed itself. ANd the Dolby audio is back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after the box finally rebooted. And it went a whole *THREE WEEKS* with no reboot!! That's unhead of with Navigator!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SDV is also still there. I discovered some new channels in the 860s. They're all shopping channels and I tried watching them the other day. All I can say is SDV is a big turd dragon!!! Some of the channels have blank screens or say "This Channel Is Currently Unavailable", "Please Try Again Later". WTF? Is that going to happen once SDV goes live on the regular lineup? Will I have to put up with "unavailable channels"? That's bulls...! And what about when they start putting HD on SDV. Sorry, you don't get to watch the Indians on STO HD, SDV is currently on a beach in the Bahamas.



Just like when your DVR gets an update it reboots. TiVo does too.


However since I've gotten the new update on my HD TiVo I've seen some issues. The way TiVo does it is they have a bunch of people who volunteer to be beta testers and they test them on their machines before release. Then when they release it they do "small" release initially and two or three weeks later they throw "the big switch."


I don't know why but I've been turning up on that "small" release group and I've never liked that. This time I got it on my HD TiVo. It caused it to crash and it took 2 additional reboots before it fixed correctly. It worked from that point on.


Saturday they threw "the big switch" and my S3 got the update. No problems, it went smooth as silk. But that also put me at alert because after they do the "small" update and throw the "big switch" they then send the update again out to the other TiVos that got the "small" update. You can see this in the serial # of the TiVo in the System Information screen, the first update has a letter on it.


So sure enough on Sunday morning I saw my HD TiVo had crashed and it took two reboots to get it going (again). Everything appeared to be fine until yesterday when I went to move "Hero's" from the HD TiVo to the S3. The S3 was taking forever to load the shows on the menu. I thought perhaps a poor network connection on my wireless network but no, it was the HD TiVo slower then a snail. After playing around with it again a bit and seeing it was slow in every area it crashed and rebooted itself.


As of right now all appers OK.


Point is and I say this for nickdawgs benefit that even TiVo's DVR's do crash and need reboot despite what Inundated says I've seen it happen to my D-TiVos as well.


They are machines, not perfect. But they don't miss recordings.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15252360
> 
> 
> Point is and I say this for nickdawgs benefit that even TiVo's DVR's do crash and need reboot despite what Inundated says I've seen it happen to my D-TiVos as well.
> 
> 
> They are machines, not perfect. But they don't miss recordings.



I've had my S2 standalone now for years, and I don't believe it has EVER crashed, per se. It's rebooted, but I'm pretty sure all of those were as a result of software updates overnight.


The S2 SA is solid as a rock. I can't speak for the DTiVos, and the S3/HDs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15252767
> 
> 
> I've had my S2 standalone now for years, and I don't believe it has EVER crashed, per se. It's rebooted, but I'm pretty sure all of those were as a result of software updates overnight.
> 
> 
> The S2 SA is solid as a rock. I can't speak for the DTiVos, and the S3/HDs.



Sometimes I bring this on myself, not being patient when it says "please wait" and confusing the heck out of the TiVo. But not in the last couple of incidents.


But TiVo is so smart it usually fixes itself. I'll bet I don't see this problem again - until next update. I think part of the problem the the rebooting after update on the TiVo HD is that the television is off and TiVo gets confused about the hdmi cord. It's attatched to a HDMI to DVI adapter and we started having problems with this about 3 updates or so ago.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15252360
> 
> 
> Saturday they threw "the big switch" and my S3 got the update. No problems, it went smooth as silk. But that also put me at alert because after they do the "small" update and throw the "big switch" they then send the update again out to the other TiVos that got the "small" update. You can see this in the serial # of the TiVo in the System Information screen, the first update has a letter on it.



Hmmm... This news has me concerned because I still haven't received the 11.xxx update on my THD. I've been anxious to try out the new Netflix stuff that comes with the update. I guess I'll give it another night before I have to give them a call.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15252965
> 
> 
> I think part of the problem the the rebooting after update on the TiVo HD is that the television is off and TiVo gets confused about the hdmi cord. It's attatched to a HDMI to DVI adapter and we started having problems with this about 3 updates or so ago.



I'd blame this one on the HDMI, and/or TiVo's implementation of it.


Not a problem with my SD TiVo S2 standalone, which uses good old fashioned S-video... which has no copy protection bits.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/15254504
> 
> 
> Hmmm... This news has me concerned because I still haven't received the 11.xxx update on my THD. I've been anxious to try out the new Netflix stuff that comes with the update. I guess I'll give it another night before I have to give them a call.



Just try to force a call. Calling them won't help, you'll get it when they want to give it to you. It's a roll of the dice, no rhyme or reason for it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15254784
> 
> 
> I'd blame this one on the HDMI, and/or TiVo's implementation of it.
> 
> 
> Not a problem with my SD TiVo S2 standalone, which uses good old fashioned S-video... which has no copy protection bits.



I'm thrilled for you.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15254836
> 
> 
> I'm thrilled for you.



Well, I can still record HD in two places: on my SA8000HD (admittedly, a POS), or on my computer with my ATSC USB tuner. I can even record it on my laptop, and display it on the HD set in the living room with a VGA cable.


But I stay with the S2 by default for my day-to-day stuff. It works, it's a TiVo, and most of what I record is not even in HD. I don't watch much current prime time, and for example, other shows I record (Daily Show/Colbert as examples) are not available in HD.


The only show I have even followed in prime time, CBS' "The Amazing Race", is also still in SD. If it ever flips to HD, like "Survivor" did, I can use either the DVR or the computer to record it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15254982
> 
> 
> Well, I can still record HD in two places: on my SA8000HD (admittedly, a POS), or on my computer with my ATSC USB tuner. I can even record it on my laptop, and display it on the HD set in the living room with a VGA cable.
> 
> 
> But I stay with the S2 by default for my day-to-day stuff. It works, it's a TiVo, and most of what I record is not even in HD. I don't watch much current prime time, and for example, other shows I record (Daily Show/Colbert as examples) are not available in HD.
> 
> 
> The only show I have even followed in prime time, CBS' "The Amazing Race", is also still in SD. If it ever flips to HD, like "Survivor" did, I can use either the DVR or the computer to record it.



There is no restrictions on HD local shows, as I'm sure your well aware of. And I record "The Amazing Race" on HD anyway for Dolby 5.1, which it does have even though it is SD. And it's not that faux Dolby.


And I really don't record that much stuff on regular digital except for TNTHD. So I'm not that restricted.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15255101
> 
> 
> There is no restrictions on HD local shows, as I'm sure your well aware of. And I record "The Amazing Race" on HD anyway for Dolby 5.1, which it does have even though it is SD. And it's not that faux Dolby.



Yeah, but I'm using two speakers on the side of my HDTV...I don't have a HT audio setup.







I do have "TAR" recording on the SA8000HD, though, in addition to the TiVo.


For the moment, I can't really afford even a discounted TiVo HD, so I plug along with my setup as described. If I *really* want something in HD, I can still record it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15252360
> 
> 
> Point is and I say this for nickdawgs benefit that even TiVo's DVR's do crash and need reboot despite what Inundated says I've seen it happen to my D-TiVos as well.
> 
> 
> They are machines, not perfect. But they don't miss recordings.



Only difference is Navigator reboots for non-update reasons. Sometimes it just gets "stuck" and forces a reboot. With the OCAP version of Navigator that happened almost every day(multiple times on bad days). Then when I had Passport again, no reboots and errors were minimal.


So far with Navigator, we've had two updates. I can tell because the box in the bedroom clicks when it turns off and it was displaying a series of numbers and letters on the front display. When it did update, it must have been a background software update since I couldn't see any differences and no new features were added. Probably something to do with SDV.


Wow, thanks for sharing. I was very dubious of the claims that "Tivo is 100% perfect". They're all machines, they're all basically computers. Eventually a computer needs a reboot, especially if it's running Windows.


----------



## nickdawg

Watching "According to Jim" on channel 5 HD there is some kind of "rumbling" noise in the bass. It's not part of the show, sounds like a problem. I remember reading about problems like this before. The normal channel on 5 sounds fine.


Also, I first noticed it during the early news at 5, the picture is out of focus. If you have a TV with little overscan you can see a black stripe at the bottom of the screen. The picture is pushed too far UP.


----------



## Smarty-pants

^Hasn't it been that way for like a year or so? ...or did they fix it and now it's back. I remember it was a problem when I was watching Lost last season.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15258897
> 
> 
> ^Hasn't it been that way for like a year or so? ...or did they fix it and now it's back. I remember it was a problem when I was watching Lost last season.



Which one? Channel 5 has soooo many problems? I know the black line was on last season too. Then they fixed it. You used to be able to see the blanking on all SD upconvert shows. Now, the picture is pushed up so fat, you can't see the blanking lines anymore.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Oh, I was referring to the the picture being shifted upward, thus causing the black bar at the bottom of the screen. It wasn't an SD upconvert when I saw it last year. It was during the airing of an HD show. I'm sure it was on many other shows too, I just don't watch enough to remember what they were. Just happened to remember seeing it on Lost.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15259161
> 
> 
> Oh, I was referring to the the picture being shifted upward, thus causing the black bar at the bottom of the screen. It wasn't an SD upconvert when I saw it last year. It was during the airing of an HD show. I'm sure it was on many other shows too, I just don't watch enough to remember what they were. Just happened to remember seeing it on Lost.



It's on everything(SD and HD). What is on the SD upconverts is the blanking lines(white crap at the top of the screen). Since the picture is shifted up, it's cut off. I don't know why NETWORK HD shows(like Lost) are also shifted up. I saw that bar on Jim and Eli Stone tonight. It's also on during network and local commercials.


I'm done with that crap. I'm watching regular channel 5 right now. It's SD, but a HELL of a lot better than the HD channel. I'm now dreading when the SD channel is a mirror of the HD channel, as the problems will be on BOTH channels then.


----------



## Smarty-pants

^ I just don't understand how it could not be fixed in as long as a year or so







. Maybe they just don't get enough complaints on it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15259329
> 
> 
> ^ I just don't understand how it could not be fixed in as long as a year or so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Maybe they just don't get enough complaints on it.



It was fixed until today. Last night's "Boston Legal" looked fine. Today it's not fine. I think it was fixed some time over the summer since the end of Lost looked OK. I remember the season finale was the first episode of "Lost" I watched in HD that season. Before that, it was really bad. There was almost half a letterbox bar at the bottom of the screen.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15258897
> 
> 
> ^Hasn't it been that way for like a year or so? ...or did they fix it and now it's back. I remember it was a problem when I was watching Lost last season.



It comes and goes on 5. Wife noticed it first on one of her shows last season and we both noticed it on Lost last season. She was quick to notice it tonight...hopefully they fix it again soon. We watched the Desperate Housewives recording from Sunday and it didn't have the problem.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15259215
> 
> 
> It's on everything(SD and HD). What is on the SD upconverts is the blanking lines(white crap at the top of the screen). Since the picture is shifted up, it's cut off. I don't know why NETWORK HD shows(like Lost) are also shifted up. I saw that bar on Jim and Eli Stone tonight. It's also on during network and local commercials........



I saw this ch 5 HD overscan at top of screen yesterday via WOW cable as well. Definitely coming from the source.


BTW: I had a WOW tech here yesterday and I asked him if WOW uses (or will in the future) SDV. He had no clue what I was asking and seemed quite interested in my explaining what it was. Maybe he just doesn't know or maybe it is not part of their future plans. Anyone know?


This might explain why TWC offers more HD ch's than does WOW.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15259161
> 
> 
> Oh, I was referring to the the picture being shifted upward, thus causing the black bar at the bottom of the screen. It wasn't an SD upconvert when I saw it last year. It was during the airing of an HD show. I'm sure it was on many other shows too, I just don't watch enough to remember what they were. Just happened to remember seeing it on Lost.



It's been that way for a long time (probably over 2 years) on many of the HD shows and sports on WEWS ABC. I think I posted about it quite a while ago initially thinking it was a problem on my end. I know I saw it a few weeks ago so it's still there. Not sure if it went away for a while. No clue why they can't fix it.


----------



## hookbill

FWIW I got a respose from WBNX head engineer. Heres: what he said:

*I'm sorry for the delay but Engineering has double checked to make sure that we transmitting and receiving the Dolby Digital 5.1 over the air. This is the same signal that Time Warner should be using to re-broadcast. If you are still having problems during the CW programs that transmit in Dolby 5.1 please let us know. You may also need to contact Time Warner to make certain that they are passing the signal thru and not losing it in some conversion process.


Thanks for your patience and feed back.



Best regards, Don Richardson: Chief

Engineer*


So I responded by directing him to this forum and nickdawg's last comment about how bad the sound was.


So he's trying to say, "everything fine here, maybe TW?" I think they need to take an actual listen, it's awful.


----------



## BudgetPlan1

Think TWC gonna expand their HDTV offerings once TV moves to digital in Feb. 09? Their HDTV offerings are pretty lame right now.


When a svc tech was at our house to replace a bad box he mentioned w/ the bandwidth freed up by the move to all digital broadcasts TWC would be able to expand their HDTV channel lineups. I dunno the tech of whether that is possible/true.


I can't get Dish or DirectTv 'cuz of all the trees in our neighborhood/yard and FIOS ain't in our area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/15262809
> 
> 
> Think TWC gonna expand their HDTV offerings once TV moves to digital in Feb. 09? Their HDTV offerings are pretty lame right now.
> 
> 
> When a svc tech was at our house to replace a bad box he mentioned w/ the bandwidth freed up by the move to all digital broadcasts TWC would be able to expand their HDTV channel lineups. I dunno the tech of whether that is possible/true.
> 
> 
> I can't get Dish or DirectTv 'cuz of all the trees in our neighborhood/yard and FIOS ain't in our area.



Here's a news flash for you. If you are in the Cleveland area you will never see FIOS. The reason for that is because Verizon would have to be a phone company in our area and we have either AT&T or Windstream. And if you're thinking about AT&T's U-Verse if you're in AT&T land you will need to call them to find out about availability.


Now as far as TW and trees, I hear you brother. I'm in the same boat. And no, I don't think the "digital deadline" will have any effect on TW HD offerings.


I don't know how long you've looked at this thread but TW will eventually initiate SDV (switched digital video) and when they do that we will probably see more channels, but from what I've seen around the country of areas of TW that have had it for sometime it is no where near the offerings of the Sat's.


If you don't know about SDV, Google is your friend or check out Wikipedia.


----------



## Dweezilz

In several areas like NY and CA and several other states, TWC has over 45 HD channels not including locals, pay-HD (such as HBO) and local sport nets. Rochester's lineup is astounding. They have very close to as many as Dish Network's Turbo HD Platinum (their highest) which has around 45 or so as well. So by comparison to other TWC areas, Cleveland's HD lineup is pathetic. Not sure why they can offer so many in other states but not Cleveland. Even Columbus has a great HD lineup compared to Cleveland. I really do hope that when the SDV kicks in, they up our HD package substantially. Just to make everyone more irritated, here is rochester's Time Warner HD lineup. This would be great:


Included in Digital Tier

1000 -- Pay-Per-View HD^

1001 -- HD On Demand^

1007 -- WUHF HD (ch. 7; FOX)***

1008 -- WROC HD (ch. 8; CBS)

1010 -- WHEC HD (ch. 10; NBC)

1011 -- WXXI HD (ch. 11; PBS)

1012 -- Lifetime Movie Net HD^

1013 -- WHAM HD (ch. 13; ABC)

1015 -- Palladia HD^

1016 -- CW HD (ch. 16 CW WHAM)

1018 -- Disney Channel HD

1019 -- Toon Disney HD

1020 -- CNN HD^

1021 -- Fox News Channel HD^

1022 -- Fox Business Network HD^

1023 -- The Learning Channel HD^

1024 -- Science Channel HD^

1025 -- Hallmark Movie Channel HD^

1030 -- Discovery HD Theater

1031 -- ABC Family HD

1032 -- Cartoon HD^

1033 -- TNT HD

1035 -- Crime & Investigation HD^

1036 -- Discovery HD^

1037 -- A&E HD^

1038 -- Biography HD^

1039 -- ESPNU HD^

1040 -- The Travel Channel HD^

1041 -- ESPN News HD^

1042 -- The Outdoor Channel HD^

1043 -- MSG HD^

1044 -- NHL HD^****

1045 -- Food Network HD

1046 -- SportsNet NY HD

1047 -- YES HD

1048 -- VERSUS/ Golf HD

1049 -- TBS HD^

1052 -- ESPN HD

1053 -- ESPN2 HD

1055 -- National Geographic HD^

1056 -- HGTV HD^

1057 -- Planet Green HD^

1059 -- Tennis HD****^

1060 -- HBO HD**

1061 -- Showtime HD**

1062 -- Starz HD**^

1063 -- History Channel HD^

1064 -- Cinemax HD**^

1065 -- Speed HD^

1067 -- FX HD^

1068 -- Animal Planet HD^

1091 -- HD Showcase On Demand^


Included in HD Tier

1050 -- HD Net

1051 -- HD Net Movies

1054 -- Universal HD^

1069 -- MGM HD^


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/15263609
> 
> 
> In several areas like NY and CA and several other states, TWC has over 45 HD channels not including locals, pay-HD (such as HBO) and local sport nets. Rochester's lineup is astounding. They have very close to as many as Dish Network's Turbo HD Platinum (their highest) which has around 45 or so as well. So by comparison to other TWC areas, Cleveland's HD lineup is pathetic. Not sure why they can offer so many in other states but not Cleveland. Even Columbus has a great HD lineup compared to Cleveland. I really do hope that when the SDV kicks in, they up our HD package substantially. Just to make everyone more irritated, here is rochester's Time Warner HD lineup. This would be great:
> 
> 
> Included in Digital Tier
> 
> 1000 -- Pay-Per-View HD^
> 
> 1001 -- HD On Demand^
> 
> 1007 -- WUHF HD (ch. 7; FOX)***
> 
> 1008 -- WROC HD (ch. 8; CBS)
> 
> 1010 -- WHEC HD (ch. 10; NBC)
> 
> 1011 -- WXXI HD (ch. 11; PBS)
> 
> 1012 -- Lifetime Movie Net HD^
> 
> 1013 -- WHAM HD (ch. 13; ABC)
> 
> 1015 -- Palladia HD^
> 
> 1016 -- CW HD (ch. 16 CW WHAM)
> 
> 1018 -- Disney Channel HD
> 
> 1019 -- Toon Disney HD
> 
> 1020 -- CNN HD^
> 
> 1021 -- Fox News Channel HD^
> 
> 1022 -- Fox Business Network HD^
> 
> 1023 -- The Learning Channel HD^
> 
> 1024 -- Science Channel HD^
> 
> 1025 -- Hallmark Movie Channel HD^
> 
> 1030 -- Discovery HD Theater
> 
> 1031 -- ABC Family HD
> 
> 1032 -- Cartoon HD^
> 
> 1033 -- TNT HD
> 
> 1035 -- Crime & Investigation HD^
> 
> 1036 -- Discovery HD^
> 
> 1037 -- A&E HD^
> 
> 1038 -- Biography HD^
> 
> 1039 -- ESPNU HD^
> 
> 1040 -- The Travel Channel HD^
> 
> 1041 -- ESPN News HD^
> 
> 1042 -- The Outdoor Channel HD^
> 
> 1043 -- MSG HD^
> 
> 1044 -- NHL HD^****
> 
> 1045 -- Food Network HD
> 
> 1046 -- SportsNet NY HD
> 
> 1047 -- YES HD
> 
> 1048 -- VERSUS/ Golf HD
> 
> 1049 -- TBS HD^
> 
> 1052 -- ESPN HD
> 
> 1053 -- ESPN2 HD
> 
> 1055 -- National Geographic HD^
> 
> 1056 -- HGTV HD^
> 
> 1057 -- Planet Green HD^
> 
> 1059 -- Tennis HD****^
> 
> 1060 -- HBO HD**
> 
> 1061 -- Showtime HD**
> 
> 1062 -- Starz HD**^
> 
> 1063 -- History Channel HD^
> 
> 1064 -- Cinemax HD**^
> 
> 1065 -- Speed HD^
> 
> 1067 -- FX HD^
> 
> 1068 -- Animal Planet HD^
> 
> 1091 -- HD Showcase On Demand^
> 
> 
> Included in HD Tier
> 
> 1050 -- HD Net
> 
> 1051 -- HD Net Movies
> 
> 1054 -- Universal HD^
> 
> 1069 -- MGM HD^



How you view this is up to the individual. And this is pretty typical to what I've seen in other places where SDV is used.


I'll first point out that 4 of the channels on their digital HD tier are premium.


Im impressed to see FX HD. This is the first TW lineup I've seen it added on HD.



Palladia HD I assume is in Espanol.


I'm not certain but I'm willing to bet that in order for you to get any of the sports HD channels, outside of ESPN in HD you will need to *purchase* their sports tier. Coming soon to Cleveland.










Crime and Investigation HD? Sounds like reruns of Law & Orders and CSI.


I could use Versus. I'm praying to God our economy gets better. But I don't need to do that in HD.


Tennis might be interesting. Some nice eye candy.







But again, sports tier.


A&E HD. Thats another good one.


Lifetime Movie Net. 'nuff said.










ABC Family, perhaps.


No USA in HD.










4 cartoon networks in HD? Four? Do kids see the difference in HD? Do they care? Are the cartoons in HD?


Now is the competition offering anything better? No, not really just more.


Finally it has to get here. SDV, that is. And last I heard that was starting October 20th, 2008.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, I don't care. The only channels I'd like are CNN and F/X HD. Unless USA and SPIKETV HD were added, my HD viewing wouldn't increase. Discovery and National Geographic could be nice, as long as they don't stretch. And if any of those channels stretch picture they'll be added to my IGNORE list, just like channels 441-448. Although to be fair, Discovery HDT doesn't stretch, it's just a stupid channel.


----------



## nickdawg

The problem is at the *BOTTOM* of the screen, NOT the top. I saw the top mentioned in a few posts above. As of this writing, I still see the black line at the bottom of the screen. They were doing this last year around this time and then it was fixed. But now it's back. But I'm not surprised since it's fro channel 5. They always have some problem. Either it is this, or the picture is completely blacked out or SD upconvert is green-tinted and horizontally scrolling or the digital audio is screwed up. You get the picture. WEWS must have bought all their HD equipment on the clearance shelf at Radio Shack(aka Rat Shack).


I'm surprised the channel 5 shill hasn't made an appearance yet to defend this. Last time I commented about 5 moving programming around there was one comment in defense of it. Hmmmm.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15264315
> 
> 
> How you view this is up to the individual. And this is pretty typical to what I've seen in other places where SDV is used.
> 
> 
> I'll first point out that 4 of the channels on their digital HD tier are premium.
> 
> 
> Im impressed to see FX HD. This is the first TW lineup I've seen it added on HD.
> 
> 
> 
> Palladia HD I assume is in Espanol.
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but I'm willing to bet that in order for you to get any of the sports HD channels, outside of ESPN in HD you will need to *purchase* their sports tier. Coming soon to Cleveland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crime and Investigation HD? Sounds like reruns of Law & Orders and CSI.
> 
> 
> I could use Versus. I'm praying to God our economy gets better. But I don't need to do that in HD.
> 
> 
> Tennis might be interesting. Some nice eye candy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But again, sports tier.
> 
> 
> A&E HD. Thats another good one.
> 
> 
> Lifetime Movie Net. 'nuff said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABC Family, perhaps.
> 
> 
> No USA in HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4 cartoon networks in HD? Four? Do kids see the difference in HD? Do they care? Are the cartoons in HD?
> 
> 
> Now is the competition offering anything better? No, not really just more.
> 
> 
> Finally it has to get here. SDV, that is. And last I heard that was starting October 20th, 2008.



Agreed it's up to each individual as to how important it is. For me, the more HD channels the better and this lineup is very similar to what Dish is offering. I'm sure some of the channels are worthless, but I'd still like the options to find a few good shows in HD. Dish really doesn't have that much more compared to that lineup, plus theirs is in 4 pay tiers and this is all included in the base tier according to the TWC website. Excluding channels such as HBO and any locals, the count is still around 45. It's possible some of the sports HD would be in a separate pay tier, however on their website for Rochester, they list the pay tiers and they list only the HD-tier being pay and the rest of the HD is listed as 'free HD tier' (aside from HBO, Showtime etc...). I guess the important thing is that TWC does have a competative HD lineup to Dish in many states so I'm hoping that when SDV is in full swing, we'll get a similar lineup. As of now, it's not so great.


nickdawg - they are adding SpikeTV-HD and USA-HD in NY this month.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15263035
> 
> 
> Here's a news flash for you. If you are in the Cleveland area you will never see FIOS. The reason for that is because Verizon would have to be a phone company in our area and we have either AT&T or Windstream.



There is Verizon service around here - the old GTE area of Medina County.


I have heard no indication, though, that the area will ever get FiOS.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15265503
> 
> 
> There is Verizon service around here - the old GTE area of Medina County.
> 
> 
> I have heard no indication, though, that the area will ever get FiOS.



I've heard many more indications that Verizon is looking to sell their less densely populated Mid-West areas to a smaller phone company. I think it's a safe bet that this area will be WAY down the list of areas to run FiOS to. There's just not enough ROI in this area versus many other areas of the country (both because of density and demographics).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/15266056
> 
> 
> I've heard many more indications that Verizon is looking to sell their less densely populated Mid-West areas to a smaller phone company. I think it's a safe bet that this area will be WAY down the list of areas to run FiOS to. There's just not enough ROI in this area versus many other areas of the country (both because of density and demographics).



Pardon my ignorance: What is ROI?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15266095
> 
> 
> Pardon my ignorance: What is ROI?



Return On Investment


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15266126
> 
> 
> Return On Investment



Heck, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat to get FIOS over TW.


----------



## ZManCartFan

I noticed a couple of days ago that Armstrong in Medina split the shared channel of Golf HD / Versus HD into their own dedicated channels. And now tonight there are 3 new ones showing up, although no guide data exists yet. We can add to the list Weather HD, Disney HD, and Hallmark HD.


----------



## rluyster

Quote from hookbill:


"Palladia HD I assume is in Espanol"


"Palladia HD" is the new name for MTV Networks' "MHD". They made the switch several months ago.


----------



## Trip in VA

You know what they say about the word "assume."










- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/15266056
> 
> 
> I've heard many more indications that Verizon is looking to sell their less densely populated Mid-West areas to a smaller phone company. I think it's a safe bet that this area will be WAY down the list of areas to run FiOS to. There's just not enough ROI in this area versus many other areas of the country (both because of density and demographics).



Correct. I think Medina County would likely never see FiOS even if Verizon hung onto that system. They're never getting a larger base in the Cleveland market, given that AT&T is the incumbent carrier in the largest part of the market (give or take Windstream out east).


I used to live not far from you, and I remember that the old GTE could barely get a dial tone out!


----------



## nickdawg

Channel 5 is fixed.


No more black line

at the bottom of the screen.


----------



## JJkizak

I never liked the way channel 5.1 broadcasts HD, it doesn't look as sharp as the others, like they put a soft filter on everything to reduce the sharpness. They also have it just a tad on the bright side. Some of the HD shots on other channels are still cheating using plain old widescreen. And with the depression things probably won't change much.

JJK


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cleveland just added a bunch of HD channels. Well they are labeled HD some have no HD content. Now have 43 HD channels on the first tier and 6 on the second tier.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15276264
> 
> 
> I never liked the way channel 5.1 broadcasts HD, it doesn't look as sharp as the others, like they put a soft filter on everything to reduce the sharpness. They also have it just a tad on the bright side. Some of the HD shots on other channels are still cheating using plain old widescreen. And with the depression things probably won't change much.
> 
> JJK



I beg to differ. One of the best looking shows in HD is LOST. Boston Legal was also extremely sharp and good looking in HD.


Soft filter? How do you know this? You work there or know someone who does?


They broadcast what ABC feeds them, and I've seen their news, it appears fine to me (don't start nickdawg, I'm talking picture here not content).


Since you are in this thread and post regularly I'll take it that you know about calibration and such so I imagine you've done that. If you haven't then you should.


Edit: Depression? Are you in a bread line?


When it get's that bad, that's a depression. Hard times, bad recession, yes. But we are not in a depression.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/15276532
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland just added a bunch of HD channels. Well they are labeled HD some have no HD content. Now have 43 HD channels on the first tier and 6 on the second tier.



That happens a great deal with these so called "HD" channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15277183
> 
> 
> 
> They broadcast what ABC feeds them, and I've seen their news, it appears fine to me (*don't start nickdawg, I'm talking picture here not content).*



Hey, I like channel 5. The only news I really hate and cant stand is 8(and 19 sometimes). Channel 5 has the BEST morning show in Cleveland.


----------



## JJkizak

All I know is what I see OTA. 3.1, 19.1, 25.1, 49.1, are razor sharp. (1080i) 8.1 is second. (720P) 43.1, 55.1 third, (1080i) and 5.1 (720P) last in quality except on live network broadcasts, then it is ok. Live local broadcasts 5.1 is almost just plain very good widescreen. These are viewed on Sony LCD-46XBR2 1080P, LCD-37XBR6 1080P, and Sharp 32GP1U 1080p. Some new films zoomed from 2.35 x 1 to 16 x 9 show an increase in film grain whereas if broadcast correctly in 2.35 x 1 with top/bottom bars the grain is imperseptable. When I say "soft filter" I mean very slightly soft, not a lot soft. I assume this is how the engineer wants it to look. I don't like "soft" when billions have been spent trying to get a larger, sharper, better color, and noise free performance. One jerko engineer can set you back 500 years. I have read threads from other forums that some jerks think HDTV is too sharp.

JJK


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15263035
> 
> 
> Here's a news flash for you. If you are in the Cleveland area you will never see FIOS. The reason for that is because Verizon would have to be a phone company in our area and we have either AT&T or Windstream. And if you're thinking about AT&T's U-Verse if you're in AT&T land you will need to call them to find out about availability.
> 
> 
> Now as far as TW and trees, I hear you brother. I'm in the same boat. And no, I don't think the "digital deadline" will have any effect on TW HD offerings.
> 
> 
> I don't know how long you've looked at this thread but TW will eventually initiate SDV (switched digital video) and when they do that we will probably see more channels, but from what I've seen around the country of areas of TW that have had it for sometime it is no where near the offerings of the Sat's.
> 
> 
> If you don't know about SDV, Google is your friend or check out Wikipedia.



Thanks for the info; didn't think about the "no Verizion" thing, just figr'd no FIOS was another joyful part of living in Lake County and being lashed to the mule that is TWC.


Although we don't get it here yet either, any opinions on AT&T Uverse? They are close to our area and would think eventually they would get out here. Looks like they have a pretty good HDTV lineup.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/15280568
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info; didn't think about the "no Verizion" thing, just figr'd no FIOS was another joyful part of living in Lake County and being lashed to the mule that is TWC.
> 
> 
> Although we don't get it here yet either, any opinions on AT&T Uverse? They are close to our area and would think eventually they would get out here. Looks like they have a pretty good HDTV lineup.



ATT Uverse is in Lake County. My friend lives around the corner from me in Tam-O-Rac apartments. They made hiim take his Dish down earlier this year and he was forced to move to either TWC or ATT which just installed new boxes in the development. He chose ATT. I have seen ATT and the pcture quality is sub-par IMO. Add that to limited to recording only one HD channel at a time too.


Just a week ago an ATT rep was going door to door down my street (I'm in Mentor around the corner from my friend in Willoughy at Tam-O Rac). He was asking if I wanted to switch to ATT. I told him I had seen their service and I was not impressed.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15280952
> 
> 
> ATT Uverse is in Lake County. My friend lives around the corner from me in Tam-O-Rac apartments. They made hiim take his Dish down earlier this year and he was forced to move to either TWC or ATT which just installed new boxes in the development. He chose ATT. I have seen ATT and the pcture quality is sub-par IMO. Add that to limited to recording only one HD channel at a time too.
> 
> 
> Just a week ago an ATT rep was going door to door down my street (I'm in Mentor around the corner from my friend in Willoughy at Tam-O Rac). He was asking if I wanted to switch to ATT. I told him I had seen their service and I was not impressed.
> 
> 
> Ray



Who made him take down his dish? He has a legal right to have that dish if he even rents.


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15280952
> 
> 
> ATT Uverse is in Lake County. My friend lives around the corner from me in Tam-O-Rac apartments. They made hiim take his Dish down earlier this year and he was forced to move to either TWC or ATT which just installed new boxes in the development. He chose ATT. I have seen ATT and the pcture quality is sub-par IMO. Add that to limited to recording only one HD channel at a time too.
> 
> 
> Just a week ago an ATT rep was going door to door down my street (I'm in Mentor around the corner from my friend in Willoughy at Tam-O Rac). He was asking if I wanted to switch to ATT. I told him I had seen their service and I was not impressed.
> 
> 
> Ray



Good to know; I'm in Kirtland and I guess I'll just hang w/ TWC even if AT&T reaches our neighborhood someday. Recording only 1 HD channel at a time? That's sure not the impression the give in their advertisements.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15282390
> 
> 
> Who made him take down his dish? He has a legal right to have that dish if he even rents.



Hook,


I informed him of all that but he was actually glad to remove it since the ATT service is less that the Dish Network was. Dish Network let him out of the contract too which surprized me. He drives a truck and is away most of the time so I go and empty his mail box twice a week. I somtimes stop and sample one of his beers and turn on the TV and watch if I have time. The HD is not bad just a bit soft compared to TWC. I find TWC has a soft picture too compared to OTA.


Ray


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15283115
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> I informed him of all that but he was actually glad to remove it since the ATT service is less that the Dish Network was. Dish Network let him out of the contract too which surprized me. He drives a truck and is away most of the time so I go and empty his mail box twice a week. I somtimes stop and sample one of his beers and turn on the TV and watch if I have time. The HD is not bad just a bit soft compared to TWC. I find TWC has a soft picture too compared to OTA.
> 
> 
> Ray



Same with WOW Cable's HD ch's, OTA is just a bit sharper and more crisp in detail. I'd bet this is true comparing most cable providers vs OTA.

May be due in part to less compression with OTA.


I don't know diddly about sat dishes nor FCC laws but I always thought the FCC protection law was restricted to antennas to receive OTA broadcasts of public airwaves. I'd always assumed sat signals and dishes were outside of this protection of the law, but I dunno.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15283886
> 
> 
> May be due in part to less compression with OTA.



Exactly my thought.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15283886
> 
> 
> I don't know diddly about sat dishes nor FCC laws but I always thought the FCC protection law was restricted to antennas to receive OTA broadcasts of public airwaves. I'd always assumed sat signals and dishes were outside of this protection of the law, but I dunno.



A while back they passed a law saying that landlords and such could not prevent you from putting a dish on the roof or other areas so you could get satellite if you desired. It's been that way for a few years now.


----------



## nickdawg

Today at 8 on WEWS. "Wifeswap" will be seen later tonight(at 1:05). Then the next message is "the following is a paid commercial program, the products, services or opinions on this program are not endorsed by WEWS". It's a paid program for Billy Graham, IN PRIMETIME!!! Thanks for the ho, ho, ho, F**K YOU to the viewers!! Seems like WEWS is trying to compete with WOIO for the title of worst.










I see why they ran the "not endorsed by us". They don't want to be held responsible or associated with the religious propaganda served up by these loons.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Well some people hate Wifeswap, and some people really love Bill Graham. Personally, I don't care for either one.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15285089
> 
> 
> Well some people hate Wifeswap, and some people really love Bill Graham. Personally, I don't care for either one.



I like Wifeswap. It's an interesting social experiment to see how people react in different situations. At least that's how I justify watching it!










I don't like con men. That's who interrupted my show tonight.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15285317
> 
> 
> I like Wifeswap. It's an interesting social experiment to see how people react in different situations. At least that's how I justify watching it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like con men. That's who interrupted my show tonight.



I'm not watching anything called "Wifeswap." The mere title of the show IMHO shows how our values in this country have degenerated.


And I'm not religious, nor am I a conservative. I agree with nickdawg that interrupting regular scheduled programming for Billy Graham is ridiculous even for such garbage as "Wifeswap." However I think out of all the evangelist that have come and gone, Dr. Graham has never done anything to warrant a suspicion of being a con man.


I can't say that about any other televised ministry that I've ever seen. The rest I would probably call con men. Just not Billy Graham.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15285739
> 
> 
> I'm not watching anything called "Wifeswap." The mere title of the show IMHO shows how our values in this country have degenerated.
> 
> 
> And I'm not religious, nor am I a conservative. I agree with nickdawg that interrupting regular scheduled programming for Billy Graham is ridiculous even for such garbage as "Wifeswap." However I think out of all the evangelist that have come and gone, Dr. Graham has never done anything to warrant a suspicion of being a con man.
> 
> 
> I can't say that about any other televised ministry that I've ever seen. The rest I would probably call con men. Just not Billy Graham.



ditto.... on every word in your post.









(although, let's please refrain from the religous talk... it's against forum rules, and I for one like that rule







)

...but ya, BG is a really stand up guy, doing what he believes in.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15285739
> 
> 
> I'm not watching anything called "Wifeswap." The mere title of the show IMHO shows how our values in this country have degenerated.
> 
> 
> And I'm not religious, nor am I a conservative. I agree with nickdawg that interrupting regular scheduled programming for Billy Graham is ridiculous even for such garbage as "Wifeswap." However I think out of all the evangelist that have come and gone, Dr. Graham has never done anything to warrant a suspicion of being a con man.
> 
> 
> I can't say that about any other televised ministry that I've ever seen. The rest I would probably call con men. Just not Billy Graham.



You totally misunderstood the show. It's not a "fooling around" type of thing. In fact, it's the opposite. Almost every time the person cannot stand the other family. They don't even want to talk to them, let alone anything "denigrating".


And old Billy wasn't even on this show(at least the part I watched). There were some young people talking and singing and religious talk. It's these young people and the "mega churches" that have ruined things. Plus there was an on-screen phone number "For a Relationship with Jesus, call: ###". Yeah, I'll bet "Jesus" will ask for a credit card number first.


----------



## Smarty-pants

They won't ask for a credit card







...


The main issue I have with most of those type of reality shows, is that they take hundreds of hours of video tape and edit it down to 45 minutes. What is left is a pot of confruntational crap that is intended to to entertain people who lust after this type of stuff. Not to mention the fact, that they pair up couples that are HIGHLY likely to not get along.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15285864
> 
> 
> ...........And old Billy wasn't even on this show(at least the part I watched). There were some young people talking and singing and religious talk. It's these young people and the "mega churches" that have ruined things. Plus there was an on-screen phone number "For a Relationship with Jesus, call: ###". Yeah, I'll bet "Jesus" will ask for a credit card number first.



Well let's have a big AMEN that at least it wasn't Tammy Fay Baker in primetime.........and in HD!

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15285893
> 
> 
> .....The main issue I have with most of those type of reality shows, is that they take hundreds of hours of video tape and edit it down to 45 minutes. What is left is a pot of confruntational crap that is intended to to entertain people who lust after this type of stuff. Not to mention the fact, that they pair up couples that are HIGHLY likely to not get along.



That's exactly what makes reality shows popular and bearable! Take out the boring stuff and just show us the fireworks. Gordon Ramsey would be quite a bore if he liked the food and personnel at the restaurants he visited.










Now, if they would do the same thing with baseball, edit out the 3 hours of snoring and just show the five minutes the ball was actually "in play", I might just watch.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/15276532
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland just added a bunch of HD channels. Well they are labeled HD some have no HD content. Now have 43 HD channels on the first tier and 6 on the second tier.



WOW Cable seems to be lagging in the HD content category.










Tier 1 = 21 HD ch's, including locals (55 WBNX not offered in HD)

Tier 2 = 5 HD ch's (NFL, HDNet, etc..)


Plus, obviously, the HD premiums (HBO, SHO, Starz, MAX) if you subscribe to them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15285830
> 
> 
> ditto.... on every word in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (although, let's please refrain from the religous talk... it's against forum rules, and I for one like that rule
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> ...but ya, BG is a really stand up guy, doing what he believes in.



Well, thanks for agreeing but I really wasn't talking religion. I was talking about television programming and 'dawgs comment on BG. I am definitely not a preacher!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15285893
> 
> 
> They won't ask for a credit card
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> The main issue I have with most of those type of reality shows, is that they take hundreds of hours of video tape and edit it down to 45 minutes. What is left is a pot of confruntational crap that is intended to to entertain people who lust after this type of stuff. Not to mention the fact, that they pair up couples that are HIGHLY likely to not get along.



You know I think I have seen "Wifeswap" and I stopped watching it and nickdawg is right about the content. However the title IMHO is inappropriate and deliberate to drag viewers who want to see some kind of semi perverted type show.


A more appropriate name would be something along the lines of "A New Family" or "Changing Houses" but neither of those would have the grap that Wifeswap has.


However you slice and dice it reality shows are cheaper then regular shows and you can plan on seeing more of them. NBC last year in it's desperation said they were going to do many more reality shows, now they want to move Jay Leno, who I do not find funny into prime time somehow.


Good Luck NBC. How about some creative thinking?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15287132
> 
> 
> 
> However you slice and dice it reality shows are cheaper then regular shows and you can plan on seeing more of them. NBC last year in it's desperation said they were going to do many more reality shows, now they want to move Jay Leno, who I do not find funny into prime time somehow.
> 
> 
> Good Luck NBC. How about some creative thinking?



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!






































I love the Jay Leno show!! But I agree about NBC. They are pathetic. First they take the star of their best late night show and dump him, now they beg him to come back in prime time. NBC should be lucky that Jay Leno agreed to to do their stupid show. I was really looking forward to Jay going to ABC and annihilating NBC. Even though I don't like Conan as much, I feel bad for him too. He's also been f**ked by NBC. Instead of being the star on the Tonight Show, now he will still be second to Jay Leno. On top of that, his show is gonna get killed in the ratings. Say hello to first place, Mr Letterman!! Right now Craig Ferguson beats Conan. Which he should, because Ferguson is much, much better.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I love Conan. I try to catch his show when I can. He is hilarious IMO.

So he is now doing TTN? I knew that was in the future, but I didn't know it was coming right now.

So what is Leno doing now? I am so confused because I don't know what is going on.







.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15290926
> 
> 
> I love Conan. I try to catch his show when I can. He is hilarious IMO.
> 
> So he is now doing TTN? I knew that was in the future, but I didn't know it was coming right now.
> 
> So what is Leno doing now? I am so confused because I don't know what is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Jay Leno---10:00pm

Local News---11:00pm

Conan's Tonight Show---11:35

Late Night with Jimmy Fallon(not a joke, it's real







)---12:35

Last Call with Carson Daly---1:35

Repeats of the various shows---2:05-4:00


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15291113
> 
> 
> Jay Leno---10:00pm
> 
> Local News---11:00pm
> 
> Conan's Tonight Show---11:35
> 
> Late Night with Jimmy Fallon(not a joke, it's real
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )---12:35
> 
> Last Call with Carson Daly---1:35
> 
> Repeats of the various shows---2:05-4:00



Mind you this change isn't happening till the Fall 2009 season. Hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15291176
> 
> 
> Mind you this change isn't happening till the Fall 2009 season. Hasn't happened yet.



Oooohhhh, ok then. The way it was worded I thought I missed something.

Looking forward to Conan taking over TTN. What the heck is Leno going to be doing for a show??? What kind of show is it?


----------



## hookbill

One of the reasons I read for Leno moving into prime time, and it really makes sense is that people don't stay up so late anymore, and that this season there has not been even 1 new hit show from 10:00 pm to 11:00 pm. This is true despite CBS's claim that "The Eleventh Hour is the number 1 new show on Thursday night."


Perhaps it's number 1, but not because of good ratings. It's just beating another show.


This to me is a sad story, because that means a show I find terrific called "Life on Mars" on ABC will probably get the ax.


And the reason people don't stay up as late? Baby boomers. We still have the largest numbers and since we are all getting older we all hit the sack around 10:00 pm.


But I think there is another question that needs to be answered: Just how truly accurate are the so called ratings system? Since I usually go to bed at 10:00 pm that does not mean I'm not recording shows. And I know many people who record Letterman and Leno.


Letterman: Funny. Leno: I don't think so. That's for nickdawgs benefit and because, well you know, I don't really want him and I to agree to much. Spoils the fun.


----------



## nickdawg

Once again, the morons at WJW are dropping FOX network programming for the Clowns. What is this, the third time? This kind of thing NEVER happened under FOX management. Only time network programming was ever dropped was for that one Thursday game on NFL network. And Thursday is an off day for FOX anyway. Big time programming like PB, House, etc was NEVER dumped. And sports programming(remember MLB?) was never even _talked_ about being dumped. Now stupidity reigns at WJW. That's what happens when you go from network ownership to a piss poor crap company fighting with Raycom for title of "worst". Hey WJW: Here's to seeing your employees on the unemployment line and your station showing more paid programming than WUAB!!!


I'll be watching Prison Break through BT again, as I have been the last few weeks!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15290884
> 
> 
> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love the Jay Leno show!! But I agree about NBC. They are pathetic. First they take the star of their best late night show and dump him, now they beg him to come back in prime time. NBC should be lucky that Jay Leno agreed to to do their stupid show. I was really looking forward to Jay going to ABC and annihilating NBC. Even though I don't like Conan as much, I feel bad for him too. He's also been f**ked by NBC. Instead of being the star on the Tonight Show, now he will still be second to Jay Leno. On top of that, his show is gonna get killed in the ratings. Say hello to first place, Mr Letterman!! Right now Craig Ferguson beats Conan. Which he should, because Ferguson is much, much better.



This is Leno's doing, NBC isn't forcing anything. Leno said years ago he would do TTS for 20 years only. 20 years is coming up.










So, actually, it's a (rare) smart move by NBC to keep Leno in the lineup....somewhere.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15292432
> 
> 
> Once again, the morons at WJW are dropping FOX network programming for the Clowns. What is this, the third time? This kind of thing NEVER happened under FOX management. Only time network programming was ever dropped was for that one Thursday game on NFL network. And Thursday is an off day for FOX anyway. Big time programming like PB, House, etc was NEVER dumped. And sports programming(remember MLB?) was never even _talked_ about being dumped. Now stupidity reigns at WJW. That's what happens when you go from network ownership to a piss poor crap company fighting with Raycom for title of "worst". Hey WJW: Here's to seeing your employees on the unemployment line and your station showing more paid programming than WUAB!!!
> 
> 
> I'll be watching Prison Break through BT again, as I have been the last few weeks!



Aw crap, not again! Well, there's more bad news.


I've been reading that FOX is thinking about dumping Prison Break. And knowing FOX if they do it won't be with a resolved ending. That will really suck after watching over a 3 year span.


I haven't herd anything about Terminator.


If the ratings are in the toilet, which is usually the reason a network will dump a show then that is probably why FOX 8 is showing the Browns. But I still think this is a local new ownership decision. Since it's on ESPN which is owned by ABC and even uses their theme music there is no way FOX would promote another network.


----------



## JJkizak

I watch the Terninator all the time. The girl android fascinates me. The ramifications are infinite.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15294018
> 
> 
> I watch the Terninator all the time. The girl android fascinates me. The ramifications are infinite.
> 
> JJK



You're trying to say she's hot?

















Remember I'm about a month behind on viewing so I just caught an episode where she pulled off shirt and she was in a tank top with a pink bra. Then she crawls in bed with John, and if he's 16 I'm 50.


Now she still had all her clothes on but she is just all so sexy. And way to young for me, but it's good for the eyes.


----------



## hookbill

I downloaded the episodes that they had last time in 720p but I'm having trouble setting my Mac up to transmit them to my TiVo.


However I still have my PC right next to me so I'll just grab them over there and move them from my PC.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15293768
> 
> 
> Aw crap, not again! Well, there's more bad news.
> 
> 
> I've been reading that FOX is thinking about dumping Prison Break. And knowing FOX if they do it won't be with a resolved ending. That will really suck after watching over a 3 year span.
> 
> 
> I haven't herd anything about Terminator.
> 
> 
> If the ratings are in the toilet, which is usually the reason a network will dump a show then that is probably why FOX 8 is showing the Browns. But I still think this is a local new ownership decision. Since it's on ESPN which is owned by ABC and even uses their theme music there is no way FOX would promote another network.



I hope Prison Break ends soon. I want the story resolved at the end of the season. The show is starting to get crazy and they're jumping the shark. But knowing FOX, they will decide to suddenly can it and we'll never see the end. FOX is the worst with canceling shows.


AFAIK, Prison Break is still doing fine in the ratings. And ratings, really? They way things are going, I wouldn't even want to preempt Matlock reruns for the Browns. Definitely NOT FOX primetime(or any other network). I know this change has to be because of the owners. I doubt FOX would let one of their stations dump FOX programming for their COMPETITOR'S programming. And I doubt FTS would allow dumping MLB to another station(owned by a different company).


----------



## Inundated

I'm not going to argue this whole MNF thing again...feel free to believe what you want about why things happen, with no information to back it up.


----------



## JJkizak

The other thing that facinates me about the Terminator is the machines can take bullets, bombs, fires, etc. How can a processor withstand heat of 1700 degrees? How can the robotic eye withstand a bullet? How can a moveable joint withstand the heat, bullets, bombs, etc. without jamming up? One bullet through the right eye would and should totally disable the processor unless it has the capability to rebuild itself and re-program itself. It is basically rediculous but the girl android is Hot.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15296939
> 
> 
> I'm not going to argue this whole MNF thing again...feel free to believe what you want about why things happen, with no information to back it up.



Naw, you're right. I agree that despite how bad the Browns are, this is a football town baby and make no mistake about it good are bad Cleveland area fans are loyal to the Browns. I respect this town for that. Too bad they don't give the Tribe nearly the same amount of support. And the Tribe could probably beat the Browns in a football game.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15297204
> 
> 
> The other thing that facinates me about the Terminator is the machines can take bullets, bombs, fires, etc. How can a processor withstand heat of 1700 degrees? How can the robotic eye withstand a bullet? How can a moveable joint withstand the heat, bullets, bombs, etc. without jamming up? One bullet through the right eye would and should totally disable the processor unless it has the capability to rebuild itself and re-program itself. It is basically rediculous but the girl android is Hot.
> 
> JJK



I hate to say it but you can say the same thing about any SciFi show. Take Star Trek for example. All that nonsense about communicators that flip open, and talking live to someone on a big screen. Food that cooks up in minutes. Robots, Androids.


Yep, I agree. Ridiculous!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15296939
> 
> 
> I'm not going to argue this whole MNF thing again...feel free to believe what you want about why things happen, with no information to back it up.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15297223
> 
> 
> Naw, you're right. I agree that despite how bad the Browns are, this is a football town baby and make no mistake about it good are bad Cleveland area fans are loyal to the Browns. I respect this town for that. Too bad they don't give the Tribe nearly the same amount of support. And the Tribe could probably beat the Browns in a football game.





> Quote:
> FOXY BROWNS: While watching the Browns lose to the World Champion New York Football Giants in last night's pre-season contest, we found out the local TV disposition of some of the team's national games.
> 
> 
> The game on ESPN's "Monday Night Football" was aired locally by Local TV-owned FOX affiliate WJW/8 "FOX 8" in Cleveland.
> 
> 
> NFL rules require all non-broadcast games to be offered to TV stations in the two teams' home markets...and that's a Big Deal this year because the Browns have five prime-time games in 2008, four of them airing on ESPN or the NFL Network. (The fifth is an NBC "Sunday Night Football" contest that'll air locally on NBC affiliate WKYC/3.)
> 
> 
> Right at the end of the WJW-produced "Kickoff Countdown", FOX 8's Tony Rizzo announced that all of the ESPN "Monday Night Football" games involving the Browns will air on WJW.
> 
> 
> A quick check of the Browns' website schedule shows that'll include the October 13th regular season contest with the very same Giants at Cleveland Browns Stadium, along with two road games - November 17th at Buffalo, and December 15th at Philadelphia.
> 
> 
> Rizzo didn't mention a regular season FOX contest that WJW gets anyway, due to its network affiliation: the team's opener on September 7th against the Dallas Cowboys. With the FOX-favorite Cowboys and a 4:15 PM (ET) start, that's likely to be seen by most of the country.
> 
> 
> With the ESPN games on FOX 8, and the September 14th "Sunday Night Football" Browns/Steelers game on WKYC via its NBC affiliation, that leaves one prime-time Browns game unaccounted for - the Thursday night, November 6th home game against the Denver Broncos, which will be aired nationally on the NFL Network.
> 
> 
> We'd assume that if WJW picked up the rights to that game, they'd have trumpeted it on Sunday night along with listing the ESPN contests. So, either someone else bought the local rights to that game, or the local carrier hasn't been announced yet. (Or, we've missed it if it has been.)
> 
> 
> The game WILL be aired by one of the local network affiliates, due to the aforementioned NFL rules.
> 
> 
> And Browns fans can be thankful for those rules, because there's still no deal in sight between NFL Network and the dominant local cable provider, Time Warner Cable. The NFL Network folks won't be able to use the game as leverage, since those rules mean it WILL air in the Cleveland TV market on an over-air station.
> 
> 
> The two remaining Browns pre-season contests will air on WKYC, as part of the station's rights deal with the local NFL team.
> 
> 
> WKYC's Jim Donovan will return to doing TV play-by-play for those two games.
> 
> 
> Donovan was heard back at his perch as the Radio Voice of the Browns on Sunday night on the Browns Radio Network, hubbed at Clear Channel rock WMMS/100.7, and also heard Sunday night on talk WTAM/1100, which carries the team's games when there's no conflict with the Cleveland Indians...



Difference is the Browns had several primetime games this season. In the past, when there was one ESPN game, it's been on WEWS or WKYC.


It's up for bid. WJW as a FOX O&O didn't bid on ESPN games in the past. WJW as a (whatever the hell they are) owned is bidding on ESPN games.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15297480
> 
> 
> Difference is the Browns had several primetime games this season. In the past, when there was one ESPN game, it's been on WEWS or WKYC.
> 
> 
> It's up for bid. WJW as a FOX O&O didn't bid on ESPN games in the past. WJW as a (whatever the hell they are) owned is bidding on ESPN games.



Hey, look on the bright side. Since they played so poorly this year they won't schedule them on any other prime time nights next year.


In baseball of course the network dictates what game will be played on Saturday. Too bad the the NFL can't and they have this rule that they have to be on television.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15297618
> 
> 
> Hey, look on the bright side. Since they played so poorly this year they won't schedule them on any other prime time nights next year.
> 
> 
> In baseball of course the network dictates what game will be played on Saturday. Too bad the the NFL can't and they have this rule that they have to be on television.



I find it absurd that CABLE games have to be shown on broadcast TV. First off, how many people even get antenna TV anymore? And second, what's the point of putting it on cable if it's gonna be shown on broadcast TV anyway? It's about time more people get cable.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15298076
> 
> 
> I find it absurd that CABLE games have to be shown on broadcast TV. First off, how many people even get antenna TV anymore? And second, what's the point of putting it on cable if it's gonna be shown on broadcast TV anyway? It's about time more people get cable.



Anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on which market you're in.


And by the way, I need that $70+/month for other things, thanks. =)


- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15298137
> 
> 
> Anywhere from 5% to 30%, depending on which market you're in.
> 
> 
> And by the way, I need that $70+/month for other things, thanks. =)
> 
> 
> - Trip



Exactly. Why should everyone shell out an extra $1000 a year just because Nick says so







.

Hey Nick, why don't you just get Dish Network and Direct TV and TW cable and a massive OTA antenna. That way you'd never miss anything.









Oh, is that not practical? Well it makes about as much sense as you wishing that extra expense on all of the elderly people out there who live on a fixed income.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15298255
> 
> 
> Exactly. Why should everyone shell out an extra $1000 a year just because Nick says so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Hey Nick, why don't you just get Dish Network and Direct TV and TW cable and a massive OTA antenna. That way you'd never miss anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, is that not practical? Well it makes about as much sense as you wishing that extra expense on all of the elderly people out there who live on a fixed income.



Umm, my comments were about the NFL. If you want to see the games, GET CABLE. No, not cable, DirecTV. They have the best NFL package. But programming from cable should not get priority over network programming. They made the CHOICE to not get cable/satellite, now they have to live with NOT getting to watch the ESPN games. Too bad!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15297618
> 
> 
> Hey, look on the bright side. Since they played so poorly this year they won't schedule them on any other prime time nights next year.



The problem, and our argument about it here, solves itself. Next year, the Browns will likely not be on primetime at all - and even their 1 PM CBS/FOX games will be seen by roughly half the audience their 1 PM games saw this year.











A certain person here won't have to rant about local stations picking up the rights to "CABLE" games, because there won't be any for the Browns.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15298517
> 
> 
> Umm, my comments were about the NFL. If you want to see the games, GET CABLE. No, not cable, DirecTV. They have the best NFL package. But programming from cable should not get priority over network programming. They made the CHOICE to not get cable/satellite, now they have to live with NOT getting to watch the ESPN games. Too bad!!



Again, I side with you on "get cable".








But that's my desire, not what is practicle.










Obviously the local networks make decent $$$$ airing these games or else they wouldn't fight over (bid on) them. Another reason the OTA broadcasts of such games may be quite popular is that many people have basic cable with no HD ch's and want to see the games in HD via OTA.


If we want to rant about real "duplicity" in broadcasts lets talk about the lunacy of showing the election coverage, State of the Union address, and DNC/RNC convention coverage on EVERY damn network and cable news ch. Talk about unnecessary duplicity!!!!


Yes, I know these are popular, people prefer particular ch's and hosts over others, and the public airwaves dictates the networks carry two of the three. Again, the locals, the networks, and the cable news ch's get ratings boosts from such coverage (maybe not the State of the Union, I dunno).


I "care" about all of them. I just choose not to watch such drivel play-by-play coverage. The summation shows that evening or the following day are adequate for my interests.


Thank god for cable giving me dozens of alternatives to watch in place of such nonsense!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15299141
> 
> 
> The problem, and our argument about it here, solves itself. Next year, the Browns will likely not be on primetime at all - and even their 1 PM CBS/FOX games will be seen by roughly half the audience their 1 PM games saw this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A certain person here won't have to rant about local stations picking up the rights to "CABLE" games, because there won't be any for the Browns.



hmmm...Is that certain person me or nickdawg?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15300471
> 
> 
> If we want to rant about real "duplicity" in broadcasts lets talk about the lunacy of showing the election coverage, State of the Union address, and DNC/RNC convention coverage on EVERY damn network and cable news ch. Talk about unnecessary duplicity!!!!



Wait a minute. Without these interruptions I would have even more to record!







I need these breaks so I can knock some shows out without recording on a 4 to 2 or 3 watched basis.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15300779
> 
> 
> Wait a minute. Without these interruptions I would have even more to record!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need these breaks so I can knock some shows out without recording on a 4 to 2 or 3 watched basis.



Good point!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15300779
> 
> 
> Wait a minute. Without these interruptions I would have even more to record!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need these breaks so I can knock some shows out without recording on a 4 to 2 or 3 watched basis.



That's also where I almost _want_ SDTV!!! I've noticed ever since I started recording "Supernatural" in HD this season, I can't keep as many episodes. I used to keep about 3 or so, then I'd watch them at one time. This year had about 5, and now time to watch all 5, so I had to delete since I was almost at 100%.







That's the only upside of not having all those HD cable channels, my USA and F/X recordings would be impossible. I don't have anything on USA or F/X now, but over the summer I had "In Plain Sight", which I watched in threes and "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" from F/X, which I have three left. Plus "Rescue Me" starts sometime in early 2009, and F/X always loves to put their shows on against something I watch on Network TV and then the replays are always at 11:30(when it's Leno time). I suppose this is the part where I should thank Time Warner for making it easier and efficient for recording.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15304368
> 
> 
> That's also where I almost _want_ SDTV!!! I've noticed ever since I started recording "Supernatural" in HD this season, I can't keep as many episodes. I used to keep about 3 or so, then I'd watch them at one time. This year had about 5, and now time to watch all 5, so I had to delete since I was almost at 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the only upside of not having all those HD cable channels, my USA and F/X recordings would be impossible. I don't have anything on USA or F/X now, but over the summer I had "In Plain Sight", which I watched in threes and "It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia" from F/X, which I have three left. Plus "Rescue Me" starts sometime in early 2009, and F/X always loves to put their shows on against something I watch on Network TV and then the replays are always at 11:30(when it's Leno time). I suppose this is the part where I should thank Time Warner for making it easier and efficient for recording.



Why don't you get an eSATA for that thing? I had one on my SA8300 that was designed just for that machine. 350gb more space.


It did cause my SA8300 to do partial recordings, but hey that was me.


I'm at a pretty good spot right now with both of my DVR's. And I still have like 47 shows on my computer to transfer over. Really disk space is not a problem, it's just a matter of transfer from either one TiVo to the other or to my Mac with it's 1tb hard drive. As I approach 11/16, I'm right around 11/13 I'll be moving some stuff off my computer to my S3.


Let's see. You have no disk space. You can't transfer. You can't download from the internet. You want to record SD because of disk space problems.


Well, at least your machine does record when you want it to. But to have to delete Supernatural? No way, I'd be running out to buy a TiVo.


Hey FWIW you may want to check out the Moxi HD DVR . 800.00 and lifetime service, 500 gb hard drive. They've been talking a bit about it on the TiVo thread. I don't know much about it.


----------



## hookbill

All night long my Cockatoo has been screaming. And if you ever heard a Cockatoo scream, it's loud, even with the door shut.


So at 10:00 pm I go in to turn off his television and I see why he's screaming. The poor bird is being tortured by having to watch the Browns! And I know he was looking forward to Terminator and Prison Break.


I turn off the television and he stops screaming. Guys, there is a message here. Even my Cockatoo who does have the intelligence of a three year old human can see this team stinks.


But wait! It's almost half time and I gotta set up the tivo for some transfers. Philly is down by the goal line. Time is running out and....The Browns make an interception! Amazing! Flag on the play. The guy stiff arms Westbrooke and HE MAY GO ALL THE WAY!


Nope...tackled or knocked out of bounds. They prevented a score true, but they are still getting whooped.










Then I look and I see, why FOX isn't even delivering this mess in Dolby 5.1. I mean if you want to torture the poor people at least give them Dolby. ESPN did. Why no Dolby 5.1 on FOX's broadcast?


El cheapo new owners.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15307587
> 
> 
> So at 10:00 pm I go in to turn off his television and I see why he's screaming. The poor bird is being tortured by having to watch the Browns! And I know he was looking forward to Terminator and Prison Break.



Gee, you think we should call the SPCA out there in Geauga County?











BTW, I did happen to notice on the local news tonight that they're playing the preempted Terminator at 7 PM tomorrow, and Prison Break at 11 PM. I'm assuming they can't replay them in HD, but I think your bird is on a converter box, no?










As for not having Dolby 5.1 on the ESPN simulcast, I have no idea. I'm a 2.0 kinda guy. (Actually, I'm mostly an AM radio kinda guy, so I've never bought fancy sound equipment.) I'm still surprised the locals are now regularly broadcasting the HD version of the ESPN/NFL Network/etc. feeds of these prime time games.


Again, just wait for 2009. The Browns will barely be on network TV period, let alone preempting your precious FOX shows.


----------



## nickdawg

Reminder, Wednesday at 7:31 pm analog TV will shut off to run a message about being ready for DTV. I'm anxiously awaiting this to see how TWC will work out. Right now I'm watching Jay Leno and *WKYC* ran a crawl about DTV. It is obvious that TWC is still using the analog feed of *WKYC*. On *WKYC HD* 403, the font on the crawl is different and it is missing the tiny "3" logos. On *WKYC* 3 the text is different on the crawl. Plus, NBC programming is still shown in letterbox as it is on the NBC network analog feed. If it were taken from the HD channel, programming would be 4x3 with the bug in the lower left corner.

*WEWS* has a local bug on the SD versions of Wheel, Jeopardy and Oprah. The local 5 bug was present on those shows today. There's also an "ABC5" bug that appears on network programming on SD channel.

*WJW* has a "FOX8" bug on shows like Seinfeld that's only on the SD channel.

*WOIO* has the time and temperature on the SD newscast only. It's not present on the HD feed.

*WBNX* looks horrible. There is no way that is SD downconverted from HD. It has to be an OTA capture.

*WVIZ*/*WNEO* are obviously SD feeds since *WVIZ DT* is still national PBS HD and the other subs carry other programming. *WNEO DT* is simulcast and there used to be a 45.2 that was SD digital but the picture is terrible on *WNEO* analog and shows are still normal letterbox, whereas they are "zoom-o-vision" on the HD channel. This would appear 4x3 on the SD channel(with the sides cut off).

*WUAB*, *WQHS*, *WOAC*, *WDLI* = who cares, *WUAB* has HD, the other 3 have DT channels

*WVPX* will be left out of this due to not having a HD/digital channel on the air yet.


And yes, I'll say it.


I WATCH WAAAYY TOO MUCH TV!!!!


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15307587
> 
> 
> All night long my Cockatoo has been screaming. And if you ever heard a Cockatoo scream, it's loud, even with the door shut.
> 
> 
> So at 10:00 pm I go in to turn off his television and I see why he's screaming. The poor bird is being tortured by having to watch the Browns! And I know he was looking forward to Terminator and Prison Break.
> 
> 
> I turn off the television and he stops screaming. Guys, there is a message here. Even my Cockatoo who does have the intelligence of a three year old human can see this team stinks.



Gee I would have figured the bird would be into Baretta


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> This to me is a sad story, because that means a show I find terrific called "Life on Mars" on ABC will probably get the ax.



"Life on Mars" is the only primetime network program that will go out of my way to watch. While I have not watched it from the beginning, the first episode I did watch got me hooked! I'm into time-travel themes (thanks to the "Back to the Future" trilogy). I'm also into forensic crime solving (thanks to CSI mainly Miami, although I watch mainly the late night reruns). But what really got me hooked is the music soundtrack! They play songs I haven't heard since my senior year in high school (which happens to be the year "Life on Mars" is situated). Even the title of the show is a reference to a classic David Bowie song off Ziggy Stardust.


"Life on Mars" comes back in January. If you haven't already checked it out, give it a shot. If you are a 50+ Baby Boomer you just might love this show too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15314381
> 
> 
> "Life on Mars" is the only primetime network program that will go out of my way to watch. While I have not watched it from the beginning, the first episode I did watch got me hooked! I'm into time-travel themes (thanks to the "Back to the Future" trilogy). I'm also into forensic crime solving (thanks to CSI mainly Miami, although I watch mainly the late night reruns). But what really got me hooked is the music soundtrack! They play songs I haven't heard since my senior year in high school (which happens to be the year "Life on Mars" is situated). Even the title of the show is a reference to a classic David Bowie song off Ziggy Stardust.
> 
> 
> "Life on Mars" comes back in January. If you haven't already checked it out, give it a shot. If you are a 50+ Baby Boomer you just might love this show too.



You and I seem to have identical taste in programming. Don't you wonder why the so called "Classic Rock" stations don't play it? Yeah, some of it's pop but there is so much music FM doesn't play. It's why I got XM, now Sirius-XM. "Deep Tracks" plays music like that and with the merger they went with Sirius "Classic Vinyl" for their Classic Rock station and I like that one better then the XM one. Matter of fact there is a disk jockey I know personally from Los Angeles named Dusty Street (her real name) on that channel. Well worth the money.


----------



## rlockshin

This may have been discuissed in the past and I apologize for repetition. Direct TV channel 19 keeps having numerous break ups on both of my HR recveivers. 19-1 OTA on the HR20-700 is better. All other DTV channels are fine. Is there a problem with 19 on the satellite?


----------



## JJkizak

It's been rock solid in Twinsburg.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg

WHY, WHY, WHY do they keep serving this crap up? All of their recorded syndicated HD Programming has this problem. It was on during Oprah, Wheel and Jeopardy today. Plus it was on during CSI:NY and Boston Legal last weekend. It's insulting that the SD upconvert commercials sound fine, ABC network programming sounds fine. Throw back to SD for Wheel and Jeopardy. Is anybody monitoring what goes out?
























I'm so sick of these "are you ready for DTV" commercials on 5. They're obviously NOT ready, they can't properly broadcast in HD. It's gonna be really fun after 2/17 when there is no more analog feed to fall back on when there's a problem. Maybe then it will finally be fixed when 5 is caught with their pants down in front of the entire NE Ohio audience.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15315491
> 
> *I'm so sick of these "are you ready for DTV" commercials on 5. They're obviously NOT ready, they can't properly broadcast in HD.* It's gonna be really fun after 2/17 when there is no more analog feed to fall back on when there's a problem. Maybe then it will finally be fixed when 5 is caught with their pants down in front of the entire NE Ohio audience.



Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.


nickdawg I don't know what problems you are talking about but just let me say this: since I first started watching HD, I guess it's been at least 3 years if not more, broadcast quality has improved tremendously. I can tell you about channels going down for hours at a time. You hardly see that at all anymore.


Since I don't turn on my back speakers during the day I can't confirm what you are hearing or seeing. My back speakers are wireless, hence I only use them when I'm sitting down watching television which I don't do in the afternoon or morning. I will try it this afternoon and see if I see anything. But you really should check with OTA and see if they are having problems first.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15319173
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.
> 
> 
> nickdawg I don't know what problems you are talking about but just let me say this: since I first started watching HD, I guess it's been at least 3 years if not more, broadcast quality has improved tremendously. I can tell you about channels going down for hours at a time. You hardly see that at all anymore.
> 
> 
> Since I don't turn on my back speakers during the day I can't confirm what you are hearing or seeing. My back speakers are wireless, hence I only use them when I'm sitting down watching television which I don't do in the afternoon or morning. I will try it this afternoon and see if I see anything. But you really should check with OTA and see if they are having problems first.



Ch 5 had (may still) some audio issue including OTA. It was a background hissing/crackling. As nick said, it came and went with different source material. ex: present on one commercial, but not on the next.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15319173
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.
> 
> 
> nickdawg I don't know what problems you are talking about but just let me say this: since I first started watching HD, I guess it's been at least 3 years if not more, broadcast quality has improved tremendously. I can tell you about channels going down for hours at a time. You hardly see that at all anymore.
> 
> 
> Since I don't turn on my back speakers during the day I can't confirm what you are hearing or seeing. My back speakers are wireless, hence I only use them when I'm sitting down watching television which I don't do in the afternoon or morning. I will try it this afternoon and see if I see anything. But you really should check with OTA and see if they are having problems first.



You don't need DD 5.1 to hear the noise on ch 5. It can be heard everywhere _except_ the analog feed. It was one of those episodes that led to my realization that Dish Network was already downrezzing the Cleveland HD locals on their SD feeds. I could hear the same problem on digital OTA, satellite HD and satellite SD while the OTA analog's audio was clean.


It appears to me that the master controls of not just TV 5 but all our locals are not paying as much attention to the quality of the digital signals as they should.


I wish the powers that be in local broadcasting would take the time to read this forum.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15321161
> 
> 
> ...............
> 
> I wish the powers that be in local broadcasting would take the time to read this forum.



Or just turn on a friggin TV in their studio/offices of the same feed we are getting.


Yeah, the Ch. 5 audio garbage I was hearing was digital OTA but fed as simple 2 ch audio to the TV speakers. DD would just take 2 speaker garbage and make it 5 speaker garbage.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15314381
> 
> 
> "Life on Mars" is the only primetime network program that will go out of my way to watch. While I have not watched it from the beginning, the first episode I did watch got me hooked! I'm into time-travel themes (thanks to the "Back to the Future" trilogy). I'm also into forensic crime solving (thanks to CSI mainly Miami, although I watch mainly the late night reruns). But what really got me hooked is the music soundtrack! They play songs I haven't heard since my senior year in high school (which happens to be the year "Life on Mars" is situated). Even the title of the show is a reference to a classic David Bowie song off Ziggy Stardust.
> 
> 
> "Life on Mars" comes back in January. If you haven't already checked it out, give it a shot. If you are a 50+ Baby Boomer you just might love this show too.



Agreed 100%. I hope it doesn't go the same way as 'Journeyman' which was an actor strike casualty. I loved that show and it got dumped just as it was getting great.


As for all these audio and HD problems that people are having here, I rarely have issues with my Time Warner here in Twinsburg. Once in a while something happens, but it's not a constant thing like it seems to be for some. Could be different equipment that people have. I had a Yamaha rx-v1200 receiver that for some reason would totally botch some CBS shows (many of them actually) where I'd get the same mono sound from all my speakers. No matter what I did, that one channel was messed up. I'd put my Sony receiver on and poof, normal surround (no DD for WOIO at that point). the Yamaha was perfect for everything else.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15319173
> 
> 
> Why do you constantly loop digital with HD? It's not the same thing.



Because, on February 17, 2009, all stations will be broadcasting DIGITAL only.


For channel 5, their DIGITAL channel is a HDTV channel. This channel broadcasts most syndicated programming in HD(where the problems are). Once the analog feed shuts off, there will be no analog network feed to throw to and probably not an analog Wheel of Fortune or CSI. I don't think they'll record the SD versions once the SD channel goes away. This means every TV, regardless of HD, cable, satellite, OTA will see the same DIGITAL feed. Even though some will see it in SD and some in HD, the audio is the same. One of the satellite guys here confirmed that with me(since D* and E* are using the digital channel for SDTV, the audio problem was present on both 5 SD and HD). I had OK audio on 5 analog since it was the station's analog feed at the time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15321378
> 
> 
> Or just turn on a friggin TV in their studio/offices of the same feed we are getting.
> 
> 
> Yeah, the Ch. 5 audio garbage I was hearing was digital OTA but fed as simple 2 ch audio to the TV speakers. DD would just take 2 speaker garbage and make it 5 speaker garbage.



Yeah, I was watching in PCM with Pro Logic II. Cable box messes up after EAS tests---long story. The only thing coming out of the back was fuzz. So I turned it to AFD-2 channel only and then the fuzz came out the front!!! So I'm assuming even if you used just the TV speakers, this would be a problem.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15322543
> 
> 
> Because, on February 17, 2009, all stations will be broadcasting DIGITAL only.
> 
> 
> For channel 5, their DIGITAL channel is a HDTV channel. This channel broadcasts most syndicated programming in HD(where the problems are). Once the analog feed shuts off, there will be no analog network feed to throw to and probably not an analog Wheel of Fortune or CSI. I don't think they'll record the SD versions once the SD channel goes away. This means every TV, regardless of HD, cable, satellite, OTA will see the same DIGITAL feed. Even though some will see it in SD and some in HD, the audio is the same. One of the satellite guys here confirmed that with me(since D* and E* are using the digital channel for SDTV, the audio problem was present on both 5 SD and HD). I had OK audio on 5 analog since it was the station's analog feed at the time.



Nick I know you know the technologies, but I think what Hook is saying is that it's a digital conversion, not HDTV. Channel 5 will be an all digital channel, not all HDTV channel. It's mixing up two totally different technolgies. Digital doesn't = HD. You can have digital SD so going all digital has nothing to do with recording SD vs. HDTV versions. I know you know this already but they are digital channels that show HDTV, not HDTV channels that sometimes show SD. A digital channel can broadcast only SD if they want for years to come. Film can be almost any resolution you want, including HD resolutions and it isn't digital...it's film. HD standard refers to resolution really while digital doesn't specifiy resolution. I suppose if some day every program is recorded with HD cameras or transfered to HD they could be considered HDTV channels yet still, it wouldn't have much to do with analog vs. digital. Again, I know you know all this stuff so don't get irritated that I explained it.










The fact that there won't be an analog version of the channels anymore to fall back to if the digital audio is screwed up (or worse, the video) is certainly true and could be an issue for those having audio / video problems (or digi channels having issues).


----------



## Vchat20

Well, pretty much what I expected (and stated previously) would happen happened: All but one of the local stations (that one is WKBN, but they seem to be having some technical issues with this test so I'll spare them the flack) are properly feeding TWC a direct feed rather than TWC pulling their analog OTA signal for distribution.


Went back and forth between of OTA analog and digital, through the cable box on the digital simulcast SD channels, and the analog SD channels on cable through a standard cable ready tv connected directly. Only the analog OTA channels displayed the shut-off notices. cable continued to run normal programming.


Seems to me like everyone has things sorted out at TWC and the local stations in preparation for February.


(mind you, I only have access to 21, 27, and 33 here OTA but if the low-budget stations of WFMJ and WYTV can do it right, I'm sure the likes of WJW and WKYC and others up there in Cleveland are more than capable. Regardless, all but WKBN on the cable lineup 2-11 displayed normal programming as they should)


----------



## JJkizak

nickdawg:

It's those funny green things that they carry around in their wallets. Formula: Less bandwidth (choke it down with propriatory codec)=more money There probably is a control on the "choke" and as it is turned up the nice new green things proliferate. Hell, 90% of the people are watching stretchovision with 20/100 vision anyway.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15324418
> 
> 
> Well, pretty much what I expected (and stated previously) would happen happened: All but one of the local stations (that one is WKBN, but they seem to be having some technical issues with this test so I'll spare them the flack) are properly feeding TWC a direct feed rather than TWC pulling their analog OTA signal for distribution.
> 
> 
> Went back and forth between of OTA analog and digital, through the cable box on the digital simulcast SD channels, and the analog SD channels on cable through a standard cable ready tv connected directly. Only the analog OTA channels displayed the shut-off notices. cable continued to run normal programming.
> 
> 
> Seems to me like everyone has things sorted out at TWC and the local stations in preparation for February.



Only WKYC and WEWS are direct feeds. WOIO, WJW and the others are transfers from digital. It's obvious on WJW since I'm watching OTA analog and there's a bug on screen. It is not on cable. Plus on TWC I saw a disembodied "FOX8" bug with the WJW Digital text under it, on the SD channel.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15324434
> 
> 
> nickdawg:
> 
> It's those funny green things that they carry around in their wallets. Formula: Less bandwidth (choke it down with propriatory codec)=more money There probably is a control on the "choke" and as it is turned up the nice new green things proliferate. Hell, 90% of the people are watching stretchovision with 20/100 vision anyway.
> 
> JJK



Agreed. In addition I'll add that there has really been no incentive up till this DTV transition mess for them to utilize anything but SD feeds for the SD channels. With this transition and stations that have the budget for full HD facilities (ie: WKYC), they can cut out the SD pipeline completely and feed one single feed for everyone and TWC can make easily just centercut or downconvert (w/letterboxing) to SD for those customers.


On a sidenote, it's one thing I have been advocating for ages so far: At least for digital cable customers, we should just cut out all SD channels for those that have HD equivalents running the same programming and just run the HD feed alone to cut on bandwidth use. The idea is that all current HD set-tops are perfectly capable of downconverting on their own and feeding an SD television through composite, s-video, or even RF coax and often does a damn fine job at it FWIW. Replace all SD boxes in the field with HD boxes and be done with it. It's not like TW's charging any more or less for the HD boxes or programming.


----------



## Inundated

I missed all but the last minute of the "soft test" because I was engrossed in something recorded on my TiVo, and panicked at 7:35 and went to the live tuner. I was all ready for this and everything!


From what I gathered from quickly tuning around for that minute...on my TWC (Cleveland system) digital cable, the only place I could find the test video was on WVPX (23, cable 10). That makes sense, since I doubt they have a fiber feed to TWC, and they have only one program stream right now - analog.


WVIZ on TWC Cleveland digital cable was uninterrupted, as was 3/5/8/19/43, that I could see. 55 also appeared to be uninterrupted, though I don't know if they're doing a fiber feed (unlikely, with their studios in Cuyahoga Falls?) or a digital OTA downconversion.


I'm assuming WVIZ is a fiber feed, since WVIZ-DT, as far as I know, is still not pumping out their regular programming on any subchannel.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15324460
> 
> 
> Only WKYC and WEWS are direct feeds. WOIO, WJW and the others are transfers from digital. It's obvious on WJW since I'm watching OTA analog and there's a bug on screen. It is not on cable. Plus on TWC I saw a disembodied "FOX8" bug with the WJW Digital text under it, on the SD channel.



Direct feed or digital OTA signal, it works. Originally you were complaining that most of these stations were supposedly being fed to TWC through the analog OTA transmissions or a similar method which is obviously not the case as seen earlier.


----------



## ErieMarty

about my Frustration with TW and there lack of HD Channels..


I found this on another site and couldn't believe what the people in the KC area get as far as HD channel...the person who posted it.kept saying... we are getting close to what Dish/Direct give their customers..I love TW...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...=36&Image1.y=7 


I am saying...WTF....


----------



## Trip in VA

Apparently, WVIZ will not finish their new tower in time for the transition. If I'm reading this filing correctly, they've now asked the FCC for permission to move their 10 kW signal up to a higher spot on the main WKYC tower, rather than the short tower they're on now. This will help the signal somewhat, who knows how much.


They're currently at 396' and they want to go up to 770' on the taller tower.


- Trip


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15324502
> 
> 
> On a sidenote, it's one thing I have been advocating for ages so far: At least for digital cable customers, we should just cut out all SD channels for those that have HD equivalents running the same programming and just run the HD feed alone to cut on bandwidth use. The idea is that all current HD set-tops are perfectly capable of downconverting on their own and feeding an SD television through composite, s-video, or even RF coax and often does a damn fine job at it FWIW. Replace all SD boxes in the field with HD boxes and be done with it. It's not like TW's charging any more or less for the HD boxes or programming.



Mostly agree, however this would be a monumental task for TW. They would have to switch out tens or hundreds of thousand boxes before they could switch to all-HD feeds. That itself could take at least a year or two, and that's assuming that everything went smoothly.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15324972
> 
> 
> about my Frustration with TW and there lack of HD Channels..
> 
> 
> I found this on another site and couldn't believe what the people in the KC area get as far as HD channel...the person who posted it.kept saying... we are getting close to what Dish/Direct give their customers..I love TW...
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...=36&Image1.y=7
> 
> 
> I am saying...WTF....



Your link is just the general TWC "enter your zip to see what we offer in your area".


How many TWC Tier One HD ch's are offered in KC vs your area? I'm sure there are many factors behind what is offered in which region including infrastructure and competition. I don't know what the other TWC competitors in this region offer, but I know my WOW Cable has fewer HD ch's than does TWC. I suppose if their regional cable competitors are not offering much more, then they have no real incentive to out do them.


EDIT: Ironically I got a WOW email about 30 minutes after posting this. They are adding three more HD ch's (ESPN 2, Disney, ABC Family) sometime this month. But this still only brings WOW's Tier 1 HD package to 24 ch's including locals.


----------



## jwt0001

For those of you with DirecTV, they added WVIZ-DT yesterday.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15326428
> 
> 
> Apparently, WVIZ will not finish their new tower in time for the transition. If I'm reading this filing correctly, they've now asked the FCC for permission to move their 10 kW signal up to a higher spot on the main WKYC tower, rather than the short tower they're on now. This will help the signal somewhat, who knows how much.
> 
> 
> They're currently at 396' and they want to go up to 770' on the taller tower.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So, if I understand the continuing soap opera of VIZ digital operations......


Currently VIZ and KYC share the same tower, VIZ is duct taped at a low level on that tower.


Now VIZ wants to move up higher on existing tower.


Future plans are for VIZ to share KYC's new tower (not completed yet), both VIZ and KYC are delayed going to the new tower.


Am I close?


----------



## hookbill

In regards to the digital testing, I didn't even think about it. Like Inundated, I was watching a recording.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15321161
> 
> 
> You don't need DD 5.1 to hear the noise on ch 5. It can be heard everywhere _except_ the analog feed. It was one of those episodes that led to my realization that Dish Network was already downrezzing the Cleveland HD locals on their SD feeds. I could hear the same problem on digital OTA, satellite HD and satellite SD while the OTA analog's audio was clean.
> 
> 
> It appears to me that the master controls of not just TV 5 but all our locals are not paying as much attention to the quality of the digital signals as they should.
> 
> 
> I wish the powers that be in local broadcasting would take the time to read this forum.




Whatever you guys are hearing in the present, I'm not hearing it on ABC shows that I watch, and I think nickdawg pointed out that on network shows you don't hear it.


What I don't understand is why oh why is the sound so bad on WBNX. That's the worst channel on television. First there was no sound out of the back speakers, then they finally light up but it's signal is distributed more like a surround sound. However every once in a while you do hear a distinct rear channel sound.


So what I tried to do was switch to PCM and Dolby Pro Logic II. Guess what happened? It sounded EXACTLY like the Dolby 5.1 broadcast. And before anyone ask yes, I'm sure I turned Dolby off and set it to Dolby to PCM.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15327176
> 
> 
> So, if I understand the continuing soap opera of VIZ digital operations......
> 
> 
> Currently VIZ and KYC share the same tower, VIZ is duct taped at a low level on that tower.
> 
> 
> Now VIZ wants to move up higher on existing tower.
> 
> 
> Future plans are for VIZ to share KYC's new tower (not completed yet), both VIZ and KYC are delayed going to the new tower.
> 
> 
> Am I close?



Close. My understanding is that WVIZ-DT is currently on a separate, shorter tower on WKYC's site. WVIZ wants to put that antenna near the top of the existing tower that holds WKYC-3/DT-2.


Otherwise, correct.


- Trip


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15327133
> 
> 
> Ironically I got a WOW email about 30 minutes after posting this. They are adding three more HD ch's (ESPN 2, Disney, ABC Family) sometime this month. But this still only brings WOW's Tier 1 HD package to 24 ch's including locals.



The three new channels are live today. True that WOW's HD offerings may be lighter than others, but for me, the price/service ratio is acceptable. A few months ago, I looked at switching to TWC, but for me, a comparable cable/DVR/Internet package (with the exception of more included HD) would have been ~$30-$40 more per month.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15330573
> 
> 
> The three new channels are live today. True that WOW's HD offerings may be lighter than others, but for me, the price/service ratio is acceptable. A few months ago, I looked at switching to TWC, but for me, a comparable cable/DVR/Internet package (with the exception of more included HD) would have been ~$30-$40 more per month.



Yup, about the same calculated savings for me when I priced WOW vs TWC.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15328683
> 
> 
> Close. My understanding is that WVIZ-DT is currently on a separate, shorter tower on WKYC's site. WVIZ wants to put that antenna near the top of the existing tower that holds WKYC-3/DT-2.
> 
> 
> Otherwise, correct.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Ohio Media Watch ( http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/ ) says WVIZ-DT is currently on "WKYC radar tower".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15330573
> 
> 
> The three new channels are live today. True that WOW's HD offerings may be lighter than others, but for me, the price/service ratio is acceptable. A few months ago, I looked at switching to TWC, but for me, a comparable cable/DVR/Internet package (with the exception of more included HD) would have been ~$30-$40 more per month.



Never come to TW. Stay where you are at.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15328058
> 
> 
> Whatever you guys are hearing in the present, I'm not hearing it on ABC shows that I watch, and I think nickdawg pointed out that on network shows you don't hear it.
> 
> 
> What I don't understand is why oh why is the sound so bad on WBNX. That's the worst channel on television. First there was no sound out of the back speakers, then they finally light up but it's signal is distributed more like a surround sound. However every once in a while you do hear a distinct rear channel sound.
> 
> 
> So what I tried to do was switch to PCM and Dolby Pro Logic II. Guess what happened? It sounded EXACTLY like the Dolby 5.1 broadcast. And before anyone ask yes, I'm sure I turned Dolby off and set it to Dolby to PCM.



I don't understand. Are you saying WBNX sounds bad because it is in surround sound? I remember you were complaining about the same thing I was: WBNX was identified as 5.1 but was only 2 channel. What's wrong now?


I'll have to keep the episode of "Supernatural" tonight so I can listen for the problem.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/15330858
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch ( http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/ ) says WVIZ-DT is currently on "WKYC radar tower".



Close, but it's not the doppler tower. WKYC has a short back-up tower with the same bat-wing antennas they use for analog ch 3 as the tall tower. I see something hanging off the side of that back-up tower.


I get a real good view of WKYC every time I go to church. Anyone interested in getting a close-up view of the WKYC tower site can pull into St. Columbkille's parking lot. If you don't like being on private property, there is a city street between St. Columbkille and WKYC called Rustic Lane. I never tried going down that street since the view is near perfect form the church lot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15331671
> 
> 
> I don't understand. Are you saying WBNX sounds bad because it is in surround sound? I remember you were complaining about the same thing I was: WBNX was identified as 5.1 but was only 2 channel. What's wrong now?
> 
> 
> I'll have to keep the episode of "Supernatural" tonight so I can listen for the problem.



What I said was that at first they were broadcasting a 5.1 signal but there was no sound coming out of the rear speakers. Then you said that the back speakers were working and yes, they are, but it doesn't sound like Dolby 5.1. It sounds more like they have equal signals going to the side and back speakers.


Once in a while you will hear a solitary sound out of the back speakers but that's about it. I don't know how your system works, but my rear speakers are wireless and the device that broadcast to the wireless signal will flash when a stronger signal is received, like cheering in a football game or somthing crashing behind you. That type of thing. What I see matches up with what I hear and the light is constantly flashing with every word they say. That's not the way it's suppose to work. Matter of fact the signal is so strong that I have to dial it down to -7 to keep the rear speakers from overloading. The only other network to do that is some CBS shows. Some networks I can actually add a little to the rear speakers.


Unless they have fixed it that's what I hear as of around 11/17.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/15327170
> 
> 
> For those of you with DirecTV, they added WVIZ-DT yesterday.



Yep! WVIZ 25 is now in HD!!! Horray!


And so is Newshour!


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/15332480
> 
> 
> Yep! WVIZ 25 is now in HD!!! Horray!
> 
> 
> And so is Newshour!



Yep, caught the end of the Newshour on VIZ and it looks great in HD on D*. I guess WVIZ got their analog and digital schedules in sync now?


... but sigh ... as I flip over to channel 49 for the NewsHour at 7pm, there's no audio ... and now a white screen with a message that the channel is temporarily unavailable ... it says "no need to call us" -- who? WEAO or DirecTV ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15332739
> 
> 
> Yep, caught the end of the Newshour on VIZ and it looks great in HD on D*. I guess WVIZ got their analog and digital schedules in sync now?
> 
> 
> ... but sigh ... as I flip over to channel 49 for the NewsHour at 7pm, there's no audio ... and now a white screen with a message that the channel is temporarily unavailable ... it says "no need to call us" -- who? WEAO or DirecTV ?



That's interesting. My money is it's Direct TV, I've seen HD channels go down and I would call it a light gray screen, not white but YMMV. I've never seen a message like that however.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15332767
> 
> 
> That's interesting. My money is it's Direct TV, I've seen HD channels go down and I would call it a light gray screen, not white but YMMV. I've never seen a message like that however.



49.1 and 49.2 are coming in here as usual, no problem, OTA.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15332767
> 
> 
> That's interesting. My money is it's Direct TV, I've seen HD channels go down and I would call it a light gray screen, not white but YMMV. I've never seen a message like that however.



It just came back at 7:12pm. There was a faint swirl logo in the background of the white screen that actually looks more like the new Western Reserve PBS logo to me. ... or it could have been the DirecTV swirly "D" logo ... hard to tell. I sorta doubt D* would have been that quick to notice an audio problem on an Akron PBS station and put up a banner


----------



## Zorviny

Once the transition happens & they shutdown the analog towers are they going to increase the power/boost the signals of the Cleveland stations? I live in an apartment in shaker and get most of the analog channels in clear but I only get 5&8 digitally.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15332407
> 
> 
> What I said was that at first they were broadcasting a 5.1 signal but there was no sound coming out of the rear speakers. Then you said that the back speakers were working and yes, they are, but it doesn't sound like Dolby 5.1. It sounds more like they have equal signals going to the side and back speakers..........



Yeah, it's still the same for WBNX. I checked it last night OTA, though at 7 pm not primetime. Coming in as DD 5.1 but only the front L/R have sound. C/SR/SL are silent.


This means they are sending a false (empty) signal to C/SR/SL. The signal is there, it's just a signal of silence. There are instances of similar false signals from other CE sources and devices doing the same thing but these are recognized as improper encoding/decoding and are usually corrected.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15335585
> 
> 
> Yeah, it's still the same for WBNX. I checked it last night OTA, though at 7 pm not primetime. Coming in as DD 5.1 but only the front L/R have sound. C/SR/SL are silent.
> 
> 
> This means they are sending a false (empty) signal to C/SR/SL. The signal is there, it's just a signal of silence. There are instances of similar false signals from other CE sources and devices doing the same thing but these are recognized as improper encoding/decoding and are usually corrected.



Primetime is different. You will hear sound through all speakers. It's just that it is more of a surround sound instead of Dolby 5.1. You hear talking through all side speakers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zorviny* /forum/post/15335248
> 
> 
> Once the transition happens & they shutdown the analog towers are they going to increase the power/boost the signals of the Cleveland stations? I live in an apartment in shaker and get most of the analog channels in clear but I only get 5&8 digitally.



What you see now is what you get. That is the problem that many people are going to discover if they haven't already. You will need to purchase a different antenna, perhaps one that rotates or put one in your cellar.

www.antennaweb.org .


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15335602
> 
> 
> What you see now is what you get. That is the problem that many people are going to discover if they haven't already. You will need to purchase a different antenna, perhaps one that rotates or put one in your cellar.
> 
> www.antennaweb.org .



That's not exactly true. Some stations still are not at their full power yet and may not be till around the transition date. WYTV over here certainly isn't at their final transmission power rate yet. And last I checked, neither was WNEO in Akron. And WKYC I thought was going to bump theirs after they moved off of digital 2?


Maybe Inundated can recall the one website I am thinking of here cause I'm drawing a blank, but there's one that'll map out all the stations in your viewing area and tell you the Tx power and estimated signal strength in dBm from your location both current and at transition time based on current filings with the FCC.


To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.


Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15335663
> 
> 
> To the original quoted poster: *If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.*
> 
> 
> Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.



Or you can get basic cable and you won't have to go through that.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15335663
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true. Some stations still are not at their full power yet and may not be till around the transition date. WYTV over here certainly isn't at their final transmission power rate yet. And last I checked, neither was WNEO in Akron. And WKYC I thought was going to bump theirs after they moved off of digital 2?
> 
> 
> Maybe Inundated can recall the one website I am thinking of here cause I'm drawing a blank, but there's one that'll map out all the stations in your viewing area and tell you the Tx power and estimated signal strength in dBm from your location both current and at transition time based on current filings with the FCC.
> 
> 
> To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.
> 
> 
> Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.



Also don't forget that WKYC-DT (3.1) which is now on physical channel 2 will be moving to physical channel 17. This should improve things for most. Channel WJW-DT (8.1) which is now on a physical channel in the 30's will be moving back to physical channel 8. WVIZ-DT is scheduled to be improving its antenna heighth and power sometime in the spring now, so that should come back eventually. WOIO-DT (19.1) is on physical channel 10 and must protect a channel 10 in London, Ontario, so I wouldn't put much hope in that improving without a better antenna on your part.


Ron J.


----------



## Zorviny

The antenna I am using for a digital signal is a terk indoor antenna. I could try a different one, but I use regular old rabbit ears for analog and it comes in fine. I am betting alot of other people will see something similar when the transition occurs. It's good to hear wkyc is building a new antenna, I wish CBS would make an effort.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zorviny* /forum/post/15336842
> 
> 
> The antenna I am using for a digital signal is a terk indoor antenna. I could try a different one, but I use regular old rabbit ears for analog and it comes in fine. I am betting alot of other people will see something similar when the transition occurs. It's good to hear wkyc is building a new antenna, I wish CBS would make an effort.



Your Terk should work for analogs as well. For that matter, your old rabbit ears should work with Digital/HD ch's.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zorviny* /forum/post/15336842
> 
> 
> The antenna I am using for a digital signal is a terk indoor antenna. I could try a different one, but I use regular old rabbit ears for analog and it comes in fine. I am betting alot of other people will see something similar when the transition occurs. It's good to hear wkyc is building a new antenna, I wish CBS would make an effort.



Go for WKBN DT. You're really not missing much by not having WOIO, other than CBS, which you can get through WKBN. Plus WKBN's DT-2 channel has a FOX station on it, if you have any trouble getting WJW once they mov back to the VHF side.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zorviny* /forum/post/15335248
> 
> 
> Once the transition happens & they shutdown the analog towers are they going to increase the power/boost the signals of the Cleveland stations? I live in an apartment in shaker and get most of the analog channels in clear but I only get 5&8 digitally.



Reception problems at this time can be due to a variety of issues. As was previously mentioned on this thread, WKYC-DT is currently using the worst channel to broadcast on digitally. WOIO-DT may be plagued with reception issues for years to come, but I wouldn't give up on it. I have my antenna perfectly positioned indoors, and I receive WOIO-DT no problem here in Akron. I would recommend the pointy Silver Sensor directional antenna for UHF signals, but it won't work on WJW and WOIO after February. You'll need a VHF antenna for those.


Another important issue is the actual tuner itself, and I'm surprised that I don't hear many people mention this on here. In the past couple years, ATSC (digital) tuners have improved. They are more capable of handling multipath (or ghosting) problems. I just purchased a new tuner, and hooked the same antenna up to it and my old tuner. The performance is so much better that there is just no comparison. I receive all channels that I can possibly receive without having to move the antenna around, and no break-ups in picture either.


----------



## hookbill

Wow, pretty quiet around here today.


OK so what do you call 40 guys sitting around a television watching the Superbowl?'









The Cleveland Browns










OK, I'll be truthful. I got that out of Readers Digest and the real answer, appropriately is The Detroit Lions.


See - Things could be worst.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15347432
> 
> 
> Wow, pretty quiet around here today.
> 
> 
> OK so what do you call 40 guys sitting around a television watching the Superbowl?'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Cleveland Browns
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll be truthful. I got that out of Readers Digest and the real answer, appropriately is The Detroit Lions.
> 
> 
> See - Things could be worst.



Nah. Right about now I'd say we should be asking if we can "import" the Lions to Cleveland. We'd have a better shot that way!!







































Also good news, no more worrying about FOX dumping our shows for the Clowns in primetime.


I can't wait to laugh my ass off at all the people going to the game in the freezing weather tomorrow.


----------



## JJkizak

Picture of Bill Parcells in the paper this morning----He is one bad dude.

JJK


----------



## bgiese

I've noticed this as well. Seems that the audio drops out and the picture pixelates or smears about 1 time every 45 to 90 seconds. Anybody seeing this problem OTR or on another provider? I'm trying to determine if this is a problem with WOIO or DirecTV.


Thanks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlockshin* /forum/post/15315157
> 
> 
> This may have been discuissed in the past and I apologize for repetition. Direct TV channel 19 keeps having numerous break ups on both of my HR recveivers. 19-1 OTA on the HR20-700 is better. All other DTV channels are fine. Is there a problem with 19 on the satellite?


----------



## AdamPS

Count me in as well. Every minute or 2 (although it is not that consistent) the picture will break up and the sound will skip for a second or so, and then correct itself. It is the same effect as when the weather is bad and the signal starts to go. This is only on WOIO-HD on my 2 DirecTV receivers.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/15350121
> 
> 
> I've noticed this as well. Seems that the audio drops out and the picture pixelates or smears about 1 time every 45 to 90 seconds. Anybody seeing this problem OTR or on another provider? I'm trying to determine if this is a problem with WOIO or DirecTV.
> 
> 
> Thanks


----------



## paule123

Also having breakups on WOIO-HD via D*. I've seen this same problem on other CBS games earlier in the season.


One of the pregame shows called this the "Toilet Bowl"


----------



## Inundated

I have also gotten the WOIO-DT breakups, via TWC 404.


Not a big deal, but noticeable.


The way the Browns are playing, perhaps the picture should break up more often.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15350429
> 
> 
> The way the Browns are playing, perhaps the picture should break up more often.



DING DING DING.....We have a winner!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15350527
> 
> 
> DING DING DING.....We have a winner!



At this point, I'm more than willing to see them put Josh Cribbs in at quarterback. Give Ken Dorsey the rest of his career off.


Heck, at this point, I'm willing to see Cribbs replace Romeo as coach.


----------



## hookbill

I just took a look at the NFL Standings. There are plenty of teams with records worst then Cleveland including my Raiders and Cincinnati.


Right now they just don't have anybody to play. Not really their fault, that's the only reason Cincinnati is winning.


----------



## Inundated

But even when the Browns had "people to play", they stunk compared to 2007.


Derek Anderson turned into his old self. Braylon Edwards has three TD receptions all year, and more dropped passes than anyone in the league. Jamal Lewis hasn't had a game over 100 yards all year, and looks spent. This is not just about injuries. The last two are playing in today's game.


Oh, and Dorsey threw another pick. The team has nothing to lose to put Cribbs or ANYONE else in there!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15350799
> 
> 
> But even when the Browns had "people to play", they stunk compared to 2007.
> 
> 
> Derek Anderson turned into his old self. Braylon Edwards has three TD receptions all year, and more dropped passes than anyone in the league. Jamal Lewis hasn't had a game over 100 yards all year, and looks spent. This is not just about injuries. The last two are playing in today's game.
> 
> 
> Oh, and Dorsey threw another pick. The team has nothing to lose to put Cribbs or ANYONE else in there!



Well, you got your wish and you've seen the results. Change quarterback, another interception. Gradcowski isn't any better.


I honestly think that they have no idea of how to play football. Who is that commentating? He seems to know what's going on more then Romeo.


This game stinks. The telecast stinks. Both of these teams stink. When they pan the stadium you see more empty seats then fans. What a waste of good air time.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15351133
> 
> 
> This game stinks. The telecast stinks. Both of these teams stink. When they pan the stadium you see more empty seats then fans. What a waste of good air time.



It was so bad, I would have called WOIO demanding Steelers/Titans - if I didn't know the NFL rules force us to watch this horrible game.


OK, who's left that they can try at QB...







I didn't actually "wish" for Bruce What's-His-Name, only suggesting that they sure couldn't do any worse than they have with Dorsey. It turned out not worse, but the same.


----------



## Smarty-pants

I really REALLY like Romeo... but it's time to go. We need a no_holds_barred tough guy in the coaching position now that will whip these guys into shape. They are outright PITIFUL. They are talented and capable, but just don't have any "drive" or "incentive". SOmeone needs to light a fire under their butts and wake thaem up. Romeo is just too nice, and nice guys finish last.


----------



## Inundated

In something actually close to being on topic here...


It looks like TWC's Cleveland system is indeed now feeding the cable channel 4 analog/SD feed from the center-cut HD feed...I'm assuming OTA.


The cable channel 4 feed did the very same audio stutter and changed slightly when WOIO ran that stupid "watch our 5th quarter!" show crawl during the CBS postgame show just now. The "drop to SD" made the cable channel 4 picture look less sharp.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15351489
> 
> 
> In something actually close to being on topic here...
> 
> 
> It looks like TWC's Cleveland system is indeed now feeding the cable channel 4 analog/SD feed from the center-cut HD feed...I'm assuming OTA.
> 
> 
> The cable channel 4 feed did the very same audio stutter and changed slightly when WOIO ran that stupid "watch our 5th quarter!" show crawl during the CBS postgame show just now. The "drop to SD" made the cable channel 4 picture look less sharp.



I saw that during the game. It went to SD and I thought, wow, not only is this game bad they decided so many people switched channels, will go to SD.


Then the sound went out right after the last game they showed. And now the sound is out on FOX. What the heck is going on today?


OK. I just changed channels real quick and the sound was back. So either it's the cable, it's a matter of chance, or it's my TiVo S3.


Anybody else notice the sound disappear on FOX or WOIO?


----------



## nickdawg

I have sound on FOX and WOIO. Maybe your Tivo is the one at fault?





























http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/i...bush_santa.jpg


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15352036
> 
> 
> I have sound on FOX and WOIO. Maybe your Tivo is the one at fault?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://thegate.nationaljournal.com/i...bush_santa.jpg



I've noticed that I don't have sound sometimes when I first turn on the television. I've just changed channels and didn't think anything of it until it happened twice today.


But no problem with any recordings, as far as I know. I actually don't think it's TiVo, but very likely something to do with the cable cards. Whenever anything does go wrong that's usually the culprit.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15352069
> 
> 
> I've noticed that I don't have sound sometimes when I first turn on the television. I've just changed channels and didn't think anything of it until it happened twice today.
> 
> 
> But no problem with any recordings, as far as I know. I actually don't think it's TiVo, but very likely something to do with the *cable cards*. Whenever anything does go wrong that's usually the culprit.



Exactly the reason why I stick with cable company equipment. Cable cards are crap. That OCAP cable card box _from the cable company_ was bad enough. I'd never actually spend money on something that will perform like that.


I'd really like to see cable cards abolished. Addressable settop boxes with built in conditional access have worked the best. It's been the system for the past 30+ years. What they need to come out with is a Tivo box issued by TWC that requires no cable car, but has the features of Tivo.


Of course I'd still want my SA8300HD with SARA!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15352466
> 
> 
> Exactly the reason why I stick with cable company equipment. Cable cards are crap. That OCAP cable card box _from the cable company_ was bad enough. I'd never actually spend money on something that will perform like that.
> 
> 
> I'd really like to see cable cards abolished. Addressable settop boxes with built in conditional access have worked the best. It's been the system for the past 30+ years. What they need to come out with is a Tivo box issued by TWC that requires no cable car, but has the features of Tivo.
> 
> 
> Of course I'd still want my SA8300HD with SARA!



Cable cards are not going away, and they will be used with tru2way.


And if you were a Comcast customer, TiVo has a contract with them to provide TiVo service. Now how much TiVo service they provide, I don't know but it does have the interface. There is another cable company involved too but I don't remember their name. In addition TiVo just reached an agreement to provide D* customers once again with TiVo because their customers did not like the DVR that they were forced to switch to (another Murdock idea).










Anyway I'm not convinced that it wasn't either broadcast problems or a TW problem. It didn't go on for a long time and it could have been a coincidence that it came back after I changed channels. In any case you don't want SARA, despite what you think it's pretty bad. You were fortunate to have Passport. And unfortunately what they stuck you with is worst.


You are correct about cable cards being a pia but you got to remember that what works well in one area may not work well in another. Even within the old Adelphia area people had different problems with SARA or had no problem at all. And the reason, I believe, is because Adelphia bought all these mom & pop cable companies that all ran different equipment and never bothered to synchronize them to one system. Hence the development of the cable card which all new DVR's have.


So if I were you and you don't want a cable card, make sure you keep your DVR well ventilated and dust free, because when the hard drive goes, and it will, you will have to get one of those awful cable card boxes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15353342
> 
> 
> You are correct about cable cards being a pia but you got to remember that what works well in one area may not work well in another. Even within the old Adelphia area people had different problems with SARA or had no problem at all. And the reason, I believe, is because Adelphia bought all these mom & pop cable companies that all ran different equipment and never bothered to synchronize them to one system. Hence the development of the cable card which all new DVR's have.



I've never read anything positive about OCAP boxes, SARA or Navigator.







And that's probably why the channel change and the navigator transition is taking longer in the Adelphia areas. They have many more smaller systems to work with. I get the feeling that's gonna interfere with SDV as well.














Oh well, at least my area has Navigator and SDV. Once more channels are moved to SDV, we're ready for the HD channels to start lighting up!


















> Quote:
> So if I were you and you don't want a cable card, make sure you keep your DVR well ventilated and dust free, because when the hard drive goes, and it will, you will have to get one of those awful cable card boxes.



If the hard drive fails, I'll just have a 8300HD cable box with no DVR. On Navigator, DVR is a setting that can be disabled. When it first downloaded, I had what was like a non-DVR box and had to call to activate it. So as long as nothing else is affected, I'll just be without a DVR.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15351799
> 
> 
> I saw that during the game. It went to SD and I thought, wow, not only is this game bad they decided so many people switched channels, will go to SD.



But...I had the game recorded on my TiVo*, in SD off of cable channel 4, and it did the same thing. The SD picture got worse, believe it or not, because of WOIO doing the down/upconverting (CBS SD picture upconverted to 1080i during the time they were running the crawl, also downconverted to SD off of the center cut and reencoded to SD digital on 4 via the cable box picking up the SD QAM feed).


Oh, and I saw a handful of the same dropouts we saw on the HD side.


I'm assuming if WOIO was fed by fiber, they'd have an SD fiber feed (existing for some time), with no need to center cut an HD feed.


I'm wondering if even the stations that do fiber will eventually go this route, since the cable companies would be the only source of their analog output after 2/17/09.


* - No, I'm not stupid enough to set this game up to record, as bad as the Browns are. My TiVo has two ARWLs (auto-record wish lists) that pick up every Browns game automatically...set up last year, when the team didn't stink up the stadium.


----------



## dleising

IMO, WOIO-SD analog here in Akron on TWC still looks like crap. It seems more blurry than the others, and the color is off too. WKYC and WEWS both look good and WJW looks better since they went to the center cut HD feed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15353730
> 
> 
> IMO, WOIO-SD analog here in Akron on TWC still looks like crap. It seems more blurry than the others, and the color is off too. WKYC and WEWS both look good and WJW looks better since they went to the center cut HD feed.



WOIO is suffering since SD programming on WOIO DT looks like crap. Remember the Browns in SD in 2007? WOIO's SD programming looked worse on 404 than on the regular channel.


WJW and WBNX are fantastic. The ghosting and interference lines on WBNX are gone. You can actually read on-screen text. WJW used to have a green shadow on SD, now it is clear and the colors look right.


WKYC looks like crap. They are a fiber feed(which is understandable as WKYC DT is impossible to get OTA). I get a hazy looking picture. Black screens are not black. They look greenish-gray and fuzzy. Looks like "digitized" analog.


WEWS looks about the same, since it is still the SD feed. I really wish they would start taking WEWS SD from the HD channel, as ABC HD has no on-screen clutter like ABC SD has.


And yes. ALL stations will be downconverting HD starting in February. Even the stations fed by fiber feed, cable/satellite will be using those to feed SD, as some are now. Once analog OTA stations go away, there will be no need for networks to send separate SD and HD feeds(as NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX)currently do. That's why we've seen the network bugs move on HD channels and networks like CBS now put the same advertising crap on their HD channel too.


----------



## nickdawg

WOIO SD is completely off right now on TWC. HD is working fine but SD is just a blank screen. Maybe(hopefully) they are fixing it since the PQ was less than stellar before. Looked blurry and dark.


----------



## toby10

This isn't specifically about the NEO DTV market, but as we approach the X-Mas shopping, post X-Mas shopping and the DTV conversion coming up, I suspect many more in our area might be poking around this forum. I'm sure we all know friends, family, neighbors who are in the market for HDTV's so you might want to share this video with them.










This is a CBC TV reporter investigating the "high end" HDMI cables people are snatching up at the retailers. The unwitting consumers get robbed buying a $260 HDMI "premium" cable that performs just as well as a $12 HDMI cable.









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIf8HLZK6a8 


The report narrows in on the HDMI cable hype and price gouging aspect, but it's really a general report on the fact that the retailers make very minimal markups on the main item (HDTV in this case) and that the REAL profit (robbery in my opinion) is on the "extras" like cables, extended warranties, mounts, etc...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15353411
> 
> 
> I've never read anything positive about OCAP boxes, SARA or Navigator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's probably why the channel change and the navigator transition is taking longer in the Adelphia areas. They have many more smaller systems to work with. I get the feeling that's gonna interfere with SDV as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well, at least my area has Navigator and SDV. Once more channels are moved to SDV, we're ready for the HD channels to start lighting up!



I thought I read that SARA had a spot for SDV so it was ready to go. Well, at least it was suppose to be. Lord knows if it actually is.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15353411
> 
> 
> If the hard drive fails, I'll just have a 8300HD cable box with no DVR. On Navigator, DVR is a setting that can be disabled. When it first downloaded, I had what was like a non-DVR box and had to call to activate it. So as long as nothing else is affected, I'll just be without a DVR.



You can get a set top box that works just fine. At least mine does. Even with cable cards in it. And you would save money, you wouldn't pay for DVR or DVR service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15354922
> 
> 
> This isn't specifically about the NEO DTV market, but as we approach the X-Mas shopping, post X-Mas shopping and the DTV conversion coming up, I suspect many more in our area might be poking around this forum. I'm sure we all know friends, family, neighbors who are in the market for HDTV's so you might want to share this video with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a CBC TV reporter investigating the "high end" HDMI cables people are snatching up at the retailers. The unwitting consumers get robbed buying a $260 HDMI "premium" cable that performs just as well as a $12 HDMI cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIf8HLZK6a8
> 
> 
> The report narrows in on the HDMI cable hype and price gouging aspect, but it's really a general report on the fact that the retailers make very minimal markups on the main item (HDTV in this case) and that the REAL profit (robbery in my opinion) is on the "extras" like cables, extended warranties, mounts, etc...



They pulled that on me when I got my first HDTV, my CRT Sony Wega. The sales person said you needed Monster Cables because, "don't you want the best picture and sound available." Like a sap I bought it and then like that afternoon or evening I read a post somewhere in the AVS Forum about Monster Cables. I placed my order through mono cable and when they arrived I went back to Best Buy and got my refund. Total cost of cables from Mono was like 15.00. Best Buy, 200.00.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15355180
> 
> 
> They pulled that on me when I got my first HDTV, my CRT Sony Wega. The sales person said you needed Monster Cables because, "don't you want the best picture and sound available." Like a sap I bought it and then like that afternoon or evening I read a post somewhere in the AVS Forum about Monster Cables. I placed my order through mono cable and when they arrived I went back to Best Buy and got my refund. Total cost of cables from Mono was like 15.00. Best Buy, 200.00.



uh huh


----------



## hookbill

My brothers kid worked for Best Buy and he got an employee discount, but when it came to high end televisions there wasn't much discount. They are marked as cheap as they can go, and they make it up with those cable.


One day I was looking for a digital optical cable and I was in Target. They had 1 Monster Cable, clearance for 15.00. I bought that.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15355222
> 
> 
> My brothers kid worked for Best Buy and he got an employee discount, but when it came to high end televisions there wasn't much discount. They are marked as cheap as they can go, and they make it up with those cable.
> 
> 
> One day I was looking for a digital optical cable and I was in Target. They had 1 Monster Cable, clearance for 15.00. I bought that.



Yeah, that's true with most of the hardware devices (tv's, stereos, dvd players, computers) where the markup is so little that retailer employees can often get a better deal online compared to their employee discount.


It's actually quite funny that people will spend HOURS researching the price on the main item to save $200, then overpay $300 on the overpriced accessories. In most cases, paying full retail for the main item but buying the accessories online like at a Monoprice source (like you, one of my favorites) would actually net more savings to the average consumer. Combining both ways is really the way to go.


----------



## Smarty-pants

 http://www.monoprice.com 


Etch the name into your brain, and don't ever buy cables at you local B&M ripoff store.

There's even a link at the top of every page here on AVS for your convenience.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15339750
> 
> 
> Go for WKBN DT. You're really not missing much by not having WOIO, other than CBS, which you can get through WKBN. Plus WKBN's DT-2 channel has a FOX station on it, if you have any trouble getting WJW once they mov back to the VHF side.



I second that endorsement for WKBN-DT! The only thing you will miss are an occasional Browns game over the Steelers, as was the case yesterday. You can't blame WKBN for going with the Steelers yesterday. That matchup was more interesting than our game anyway.


BTW: I got to see both via PIP. Having WKBN-DT (w/WYFX on 27-2) + WOIO + WJW = the poor man's Sunday Ticket


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15356077
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com
> 
> 
> Etch the name into your brain, and don't ever buy cables at you local B&M ripoff store.
> 
> There's even a link at the top of every page here on AVS for your convenience.



Or use the link convieniently provided above by our AVSforum.

Ray


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15357448
> 
> 
> I second that endorsement for WKBN-DT! The only thing you will miss are an occasional Browns game over the Steelers, as was the case yesterday. You can't blame WKBN for going with the Steelers yesterday. That matchup was more interesting than our game anyway.
> 
> 
> BTW: I got to see both via PIP. Having WKBN-DT (w/WYFX on 27-2) + WOIO + WJW = the poor man's Sunday Ticket



Hey, three is better than one! Plus, Sunday ticket is ridiculously expensive!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15355159
> 
> 
> You can get a set top box that works just fine. At least mine does. Even with cable cards in it. And you would save money, you wouldn't pay for DVR or DVR service.



The non-DVR boxes with Navigator are worse than the DVR boxes. I have one, even though it doesn't use the cable cards, it still is bad. The UI is slower than the DVR(although it is an old Pioneer box) and features like "pressing B to search for programs" do not work since it takes forever for the list to load and your program gets blacked out while it loads the data.


And even though the Navigator on the 8300HD is decent(I just threw up in my mouth!), the Navigator used on the cable card boxes is an entirely different animal. The OCAP boxes use ODN=OCAP Digital Navigator. There are minor differences in the appearance of the UI, plus it is extremely slow and full of bugs. The 8300HD runs circles around the HDC, and the HDC is supposed to be newer and have more memory. BUT, the ODN also has additional software for OCAP.


It seems like the version of SARA they're using for non-DVR boxes is better than Navigator. Which would make sense since the box is SA, the operating system is SA. They're sticking with compatible products. Plus, I have much more faith in an actual product than I would in some third party loaded diaper from a company like TWC. Many of the problems you have mentioned with the SARA DVR are similar to what happened with Passport in the early days. Over the years, through updates, it developed into a stable, reliable DVR. My guess is it is not SARA that is the problem, but the cable company. Since it was a company composed of small, mickey mouse operations, and the fact the bosses went to prison, it's no surprise customers were neglected.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15359447
> 
> 
> The non-DVR boxes with Navigator are worse than the DVR boxes. I have one, even though it doesn't use the cable cards, it still is bad. The UI is slower than the DVR(although it is an old Pioneer box) and features like "pressing B to search for programs" do not work since it takes forever for the list to load and your program gets blacked out while it loads the data.
> 
> 
> And even though the Navigator on the 8300HD is decent(I just threw up in my mouth!), the Navigator used on the cable card boxes is an entirely different animal. The OCAP boxes use ODN=OCAP Digital Navigator. There are minor differences in the appearance of the UI, plus it is extremely slow and full of bugs. The 8300HD runs circles around the HDC, and the HDC is supposed to be newer and have more memory. BUT, the ODN also has additional software for OCAP.
> 
> 
> It seems like the version of SARA they're using for non-DVR boxes is better than Navigator. Which would make sense since the box is SA, the operating system is SA. They're sticking with compatible products. Plus, I have much more faith in an actual product than I would in some third party loaded diaper from a company like TWC. Many of the problems you have mentioned with the SARA DVR are similar to what happened with Passport in the early days. Over the years, through updates, it developed into a stable, reliable DVR. My guess is it is not SARA that is the problem, but the cable company. Since it was a company composed of small, mickey mouse operations, and the fact the bosses went to prison, it's no surprise customers were neglected.



Oh nickdawg, by your own admission you say you have an old pioneer box and I'm not talking about that. SARA seems to work fine for HD with the new boxes, I think SA 5600. SARA worked fine when I had the DVR watching something live. It just was a piece of crap at recording.


Who knows what the "problem" was? All I know is that as a DVR it sucked.


----------



## black88mx6

Any more word on SDV for NE Ohio? I am part of the old Adelphia system out of Strongsville, and I have recently picked up my 3rd TV with a cable-card. (LT-52149) Since tru2ways sets are not yet out, I wanted to get an idea on when to expect SDV in my area. I fully expect EVERYONE to show tru2ways sets at CES in January.


I, like everyone else, enjoy new HD stations, but will not move to a cable box with extra wires and power plugs. Until tru2way is available, I will make due with whatever non SDV channels are available. For the most part I don't watch all the stations that are available now on my bronze digital pack.


What is more likely now that analog TV is going away soon; removing or pairing back the existing analog stations to get more bandwidth, or moving to SDV?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15359270
> 
> 
> Hey, three is better than one! Plus, Sunday ticket is ridiculously expensive!



It's actually four different stations! It was better in previous seasons, this year the Youngstown stations were mostly in lockstep with the Cleveland stations up until this last Sunday.


At the very least, whenever the Browns play at home and the opposite network (usually FOX) has the doubleheder, WJW would not be able to show a competing game, but WYFX via WKBN-DT 27-2 would carry a competing game. Another senerio would be if FOX did not have the doubleheader but the big national game is on at the same time as a home Browns game, WJW would have to show a game after (or before in the case of a Browns 4 PM start) the timeslot of the Browns game. WYFX may have a competing game which would create a quasi-doubleheader for FOX on a week when CBS had the real doulble header.


This year the bye week and the weeks when the Browns were on primetime national games there were no differences betwen Cleveland & Youngstown stations. In years past there could be up to 4 unique games.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15359270
> 
> 
> Hey, three is better than one! Plus, Sunday ticket is ridiculously expensive!



Hey, we all must pay the gods!







... & their talents don't come cheap either.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15339750
> 
> 
> Go for WKBN DT. You're really not missing much by not having WOIO, other than CBS, which you can get through WKBN. Plus WKBN's DT-2 channel has a FOX station on it, if you have any trouble getting WJW once they mov back to the VHF side.




It would be nice to have that choice, I don't even get a heartbeat of a signal fome any of the Y-town stations even though they claim to be covering up here.


Ditto with PBS 45/49


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15326428
> 
> 
> Apparently, WVIZ will not finish their new tower in time for the transition. If I'm reading this filing correctly, they've now asked the FCC for permission to move their 10 kW signal up to a higher spot on the main WKYC tower, rather than the short tower they're on now. This will help the signal somewhat, who knows how much.
> 
> 
> They're currently at 396' and they want to go up to 770' on the taller tower.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thank you again for the info Trip, so the 12/19 date is now meaningless?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15364971
> 
> 
> Hey, we all must pay the gods!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... & their talents don't come cheap either.



When I had D-TiVo back in Northern KY I requested permission to receive the L.A. and New York hook ups. At that time they still wern't broadcasting locals and Cincinnati locals would just say OK, no problem. Then they got the locals and I still got to keep my New York and L.A. stations.


Since L.A. has no football teams I could always count on seeing the Raiders on KCBS and of course whatever was on FOX. Then there were the Giants and Jets and if one of those teams wern't playing I would get whomever they were showing. And after the locals started being shown I got Cincinnati as well.


Now that was cool, and all it cost was $10.00 a month.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15365086
> 
> 
> Thank you again for the info Trip, so the 12/19 date is now meaningless?



Yes. There were "unforseen delays" such that it won't be done until after the transition date which means WKYC-DT 17 won't be ready by then either.


- Trip


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15335663
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true. Some stations still are not at their full power yet and may not be till around the transition date. WYTV over here certainly isn't at their final transmission power rate yet. And last I checked, neither was WNEO in Akron. And WKYC I thought was going to bump theirs after they moved off of digital 2?
> 
> 
> Maybe Inundated can recall the one website I am thinking of here cause I'm drawing a blank, but there's one that'll map out all the stations in your viewing area and tell you the Tx power and estimated signal strength in dBm from your location both current and at transition time based on current filings with the FCC.
> 
> 
> To the original quoted poster: If you can and it's not difficult or out of your budget, get a new antenna if you don't have one or have one and it's VHF rated or just plain old.
> 
> 
> Personally though, I'd wait around and see how things improve come february. Many stations around here are still scrambling to get their transmission locations, channel licenses, transmitting power, etc. all finalized before February. By then, some channels will improve, some may deteriorate. It's hard to tell.




So there is hope yet? I've noticed some of the newer permits will levitate more of a better signal to the west & slightly degrade the signal to the east. Actually Northern Ashtabula & eastern Lake counties do not have full coverage from all of the networks.


Unsure if the Weather will play an effect on what will happen in February either, I'mm sure many will wait for the wx to break in the spring for final placements.


I was picking up 68-1 & 68-2 (Physical channel 12) a few weeks back for an evening, claims to be Americas first all digital independent station?


Any updates on weather or not any subs will be added?? I'm surprised 43-2 hasn't gone dark to save power.


----------



## Trip in VA

WMFD-DT boosted power not too long ago, and yes, they had to drop their analog signal to replace the antenna with a digital channel 12 one in order to be able to boost power as they did. (That was a horrid sentence)


43-2 being on or off doesn't really affect the power bill one way or another. 19.393 Mbps has to be transmitted one way or another.


- Trip


----------



## Bismarck440

WMFD just seemed to be a one time shot, though it's nice to have a choice at times







(Most of you seem to get much more OTA than I do) Up here NE of the city seems to be neglected by the home market. Speaking of which I haven't had much trouble at all lately with 3 & 19, but 5 which I never had a problem with occasionally pixelizes now.


On a second thought, I DO have WICU 12 out of Erie that competes on 12.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15365228
> 
> 
> Yes. There were "unforseen delays" such that it won't be done until after the transition date which means WKYC-DT 17 won't be ready by then either.
> 
> 
> - Trip



So it really isn't necessary for WKYC to vacate 2 on 2/17?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15365228
> 
> 
> 43-2 being on or off doesn't really affect the power bill one way or another. 19.393 Mbps has to be transmitted one way or another.



But isn't the signal somewhat degraded on 43.1 then?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15365097
> 
> 
> When I had D-TiVo back in Northern KY I requested permission to receive the L.A. and New York hook ups. At that time they still wern't broadcasting locals and Cincinnati locals would just say OK, no problem. Then they got the locals and I still got to keep my New York and L.A. stations.
> 
> 
> Since L.A. has no football teams I could always count on seeing the Raiders on KCBS and of course whatever was on FOX. Then there were the Giants and Jets and if one of those teams wern't playing I would get whomever they were showing. And after the locals started being shown I got Cincinnati as well.
> 
> 
> Now that was cool, and all it cost was $10.00 a month.



I wish I could get NY/LA locals. Cleveland TV is horrendous. There's a HUGE drop between markets 1, 2, even 3 and 17(where Cleveland is). I've seen some things, things that belong on +50, +100 markets. Mostly on channel 19. And now channel 3 is starting to suck more than an industrial Hoover in the news department. Single anchor formats, more cuts.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15365055
> 
> 
> It would be nice to have that choice, I don't even get a heartbeat of a signal from any of the Y-town stations even though they claim to be covering up here.
> 
> 
> Ditto with PBS 45/49



What you need is a 40' tower to get your antenna over the terrain obstruction that is between you and Y'town. WKBN-DT's signal does reach out your way, it just gets mangled by the high ground along the southern border of Lake County.


If you lived on that high ground you'd be all set.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15366924
> 
> 
> I wish I could get NY/LA locals. Cleveland TV is horrendous. There's a HUGE drop between markets 1, 2, even 3 and 17(where Cleveland is). I've seen some things, things that belong on +50, +100 markets. Mostly on channel 19. And now channel 3 is starting to suck more than an industrial Hoover in the news department. Single anchor formats, more cuts.



The main thing with the super markets is there are many more channels OTA, even prior HD. In L.A. and N.Y. just in VHF there is 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13. Back in the old days, or as they say today "the day" all that crap you see on local TV went to the non network stations. Now technically speaking there really isn't any "non network" station in L.A. with the exception of channel 9, but that is now owned by CBS. And with more local OTA you get coverage of sports teams without cable like Lakers, Angels, Dodgers, and Clippers though they also appear on prime ticket as well. So no preempt of regular network programs, unless it's on those mickey mouse networks like CW and My.


With a large Latino population L.A. will always have televised OTA of baseball.


----------



## nickdawg

Plus it would be cool to see other Hispanic programming outlets, like channel 61. I'll bet LA doesn't have TWO channels that broadcast nothing but Paid Programming OTA(23 and 67). I'd always like to see something else come here, maybe another Spanish or the Retro TV Network. 67 is a complete waste, should sing off if no other network is shown, and 23 is in the same boat. That PAX/ION/whatever channel sucks too.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15366287
> 
> 
> So it really isn't necessary for WKYC to vacate 2 on 2/17?



They've received an STA to remain on channel 2 until the new tower is finished. Not sure how long that'll be, but you know they're just itching to get it on the air.



> Quote:
> But isn't the signal somewhat degraded on 43.1 then?



Of course, but the way you phrased it, it sounded like you thought that keeping 43-2 cost them extra money, which it really doesn't.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15366287
> 
> 
> But isn't the signal somewhat degraded on 43.1 then?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15367632
> 
> 
> Of course, but the way you phrased it, it sounded like you thought that keeping 43-2 cost them extra money, which it really doesn't.
> 
> 
> - Trip



It does degrade the signal on 43-1, since MNTV doesn't use the FOX splicer system and the picture is not "pre-degraded" as FOX is. But 43-1 is still nowhere near as bad as 19-1. I still say that weather subchannel should go away or move to 43, since it seems there is no plan to replace "the Tube" channel.


According to TWC, WKYC Weather Plus will no longer be carried on 12/31, so I assume that is when WP officially shuts down. I really hope WKYC reclaims that bandwidth for 3-1 and doesn't keep a ghost channel running like WUAB.


----------



## rick490





> Quote:
> Any more word on SDV for NE Ohio? I am part of the old Adelphia system out of Strongsville, and I have recently picked up my 3rd TV with a cable-card. (LT-52149) Since tru2ways sets are not yet out, I wanted to get an idea on when to expect SDV in my area. I fully expect EVERYONE to show tru2ways sets at CES in January.



I heard from a TWC Rep that SDV would be January and new HD channels in February, but then who believes a TWC Rep?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15368356
> 
> 
> I heard from a TWC Rep that SDV would be January and new HD channels in February, but then who believes a TWC Rep?



Interesting. They already have SDV on the shopping channel tier, 185-XXX. I guess it is good news to hear more HD channels in February. They were right about it when they said channels were coming in March. And they did come in March.


I also remember a service tech saying they were adding Scifi HD. This was in (early)2007.


----------



## JJkizak

The only trouble I have is with 67.1, 49.1 which fluctuate a bit. All the rest are in fat city including the 17.1 series.

JJK


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15367111
> 
> 
> What you need is a 40' tower to get your antenna over the terrain obstruction that is between you and Y'town. WKBN-DT's signal does reach out your way, it just gets mangled by the high ground along the southern border of Lake County.
> 
> 
> If you lived on that high ground you'd be all set.



Since I'm in a condo impossible for a tower but I get the point I'm below the 'ridge'. I do know someone in Kirtland using an Omni amplified by RS, that is having somewhat more difficulty than me, they are getting everything I am less 55 Digital.


I don't know where the threshold is, My primary antenna is on a 2 story structure on a peak with about a 3-4 foot mast. I also have an attic setup for backup, though my analog especially from Canada & Toledo seems better through my attic antenna, although pointed at the farm, go figure.


I've also added a 15 db small set amp which may or may not be helping at least with the locals, I haven't figured that out yet. I do know this set amp helps with 23 analog on the outdoor antenna, & with the UHF analog on my attic antenna.


One of Erie's Channels is suppose to make it as far west as Mentor, time will tell.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15367754
> 
> 
> It does degrade the signal on 43-1, since MNTV doesn't use the FOX splicer system and the picture is not "pre-degraded" as FOX is. But 43-1 is still nowhere near as bad as 19-1. I still say that weather subchannel should go away or move to 43, since it seems there is no plan to replace "the Tube" channel.



19 & 43 are related, might make sense.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15367754
> 
> 
> According to TWC, WKYC Weather Plus will no longer be carried on 12/31, so I assume that is when WP officially shuts down. I really hope WKYC reclaims that bandwidth for 3-1 and doesn't keep a ghost channel running like WUAB.



I'll miss 3's wx+ (especially whatshername







), no plans to move it elsewhere, or revive it on another sub? Was this NBC's decision or WKYC's? DTV really isn't even up & running & they are allready canceling these nice creature comforts like this & the Tube.


The weather subs on 11.2 & 68.2 were very degraded.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15367440
> 
> 
> Plus it would be cool to see other Hispanic programming outlets, like channel 61. I'll bet LA doesn't have TWO channels that broadcast nothing but Paid Programming OTA(23 and 67). I'd always like to see something else come here, maybe another Spanish or the Retro TV Network. 67 is a complete waste, should sing off if no other network is shown, and 23 is in the same boat. That PAX/ION/whatever channel sucks too.




23??? I thought it was 32? I think the days of independents are gone due to the intervention of cable superstations.... I miss those stations with old movies, & syndicated cartoons... what happened to Johnny Socco & Ultraman?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15368834
> 
> 
> I'll miss 3's wx+ (especially whatshername
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), no plans to move it elsewhere, or revive it on another sub? Was this NBC's decision or WKYC's? DTV really isn't even up & running & they are allready canceling these nice creature comforts like this & the Tube.
> 
> 
> The weather subs on 11.2 & 68.2 were very degraded.



NBC is dumping the service after purchasing the Weather Channel on cable. I had mixed feelings. I like Weather Plus because the weather is always on. On the cable channel, they show commercials and other crap. Whenever I turn on TWC, the local weather usually isn't on.


But I will be even happier if WKYC broadcasts at full HD bandwidth.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15368986
> 
> 
> NBC is dumping the service after purchasing the Weather Channel on cable. I had mixed feelings. I like Weather Plus because the weather is always on. On the cable channel, they show commercials and other crap. Whenever I turn on TWC, the local weather usually isn't on.
> 
> 
> But I will be even happier if WKYC broadcasts at full HD bandwidth.



Ditto on that, every time I check the Weather Channel (when I'm somewhere with cable) nothing but commercials.... even though WX+ showed commercials at times on an inset, at least it wasn't an annoyance.


Figures cable would be involved.


----------



## nickdawg

I was really hoping that TWC on cable would pick up the same type of graphics system. Right now it looks like they frame all the shots on TWC to leave enough room on the bottom for the local conditions banner. It would be better to to have the "L-bar" style graphic like Weather Plus OTA. They could run local conditions all the time on the bottom and put national stuff on the left side.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15367754
> 
> 
> ...............
> 
> According to TWC, WKYC Weather Plus will no longer be carried on 12/31, so I assume that is when WP officially shuts down. I really hope WKYC reclaims that bandwidth for 3-1 and doesn't keep a ghost channel running like WUAB.



Thank god! What a waste of air wave. If we're lucky 19-2 will follow.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15368356
> 
> 
> I heard from a TWC Rep that SDV would be January and new HD channels in February, but then who believes a TWC Rep?



Plenty of people. But it's encouraging that the rep even knew what SDV was!


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15368452
> 
> 
> Interesting. They already have SDV on the shopping channel tier, 185-XXX. I guess it is good news to hear more HD channels in February. They were right about it when they said channels were coming in March. And they did come in March.
> 
> 
> I also remember a service tech saying they were adding Scifi HD. This was in (early)2007.



Being Akron your on the original TW buildouts? Here in Adelphia land I still get the shopping channgels (185-xxx) with my cable card, so no SDV here.


----------



## hookbill

Yesterday afternoon I experienced another loss of sound on WOIO HD. Using the channel up feature on my remote, I attempted to get the next HD channel only to get a gray screen!


I kept channel up to a couple of other screens that should be HD then I got ESPN Espanol. Um, I don't pay for that level of service just basic digital. Then I punched in manually 404 and there it was. When I pushed the info key the other tuner was on WKYC. The picture and sound were both there.


Scary with the timing, I'm sure my contact at TW is off for the holidays.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/15371356
> 
> 
> Being Akron your on the original TW buildouts? Here in Adelphia land I still get the shopping channgels (185-xxx) with my cable card, so no SDV here.



He's looking at channels in the 900's. I think if you go up there and punch in the channel you will see it too. I do with my TiVo which is not SDV.


nickdawg I know you want to be optimistic but TW reps really don't have any idea of what is going to come on in the next couple of months. My TW head end person says there is not time date set for anything, simply that they are "working" on it. I asked her two weeks ago.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15369202
> 
> 
> I was really hoping that TWC on cable would pick up the same type of graphics system. Right now it looks like they frame all the shots on TWC to leave enough room on the bottom for the local conditions banner. It would be better to to have the "L-bar" style graphic like Weather Plus OTA. They could run local conditions all the time on the bottom and put national stuff on the left side.



So you get a WX forecast on your cable?


Nice, but I still can't justify $40-50+ a month for this.


I guess we are living in the age where it's assumed that everyone has Cable, A cell ect.


No more freebees I guess


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15370924
> 
> 
> Thank god! What a waste of air wave. If we're lucky 19-2 will follow.




You didn't like this feature?? I liked 3's a bit better than the one on 19.


I'll now return you to chat on cable & other pay services....










Everyone have a good holiday!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15373500
> 
> 
> You didn't like this feature?? I liked 3's a bit better than the one on 19.
> 
> 
> I'll now return you to chat on cable & other pay services....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone have a good holiday!



Nah, with all the other weather outlets available it just seems silly to me. Weather Ch (is that on basic cable?), Weather.com, buy a weather radio for $10, newspaper, phone weather, psychic neighbors.


If there is anything of importance (and even then 90% of the warnings are pointless) it will be plastered over all the locals with the silly weather warnings. Now, a *proper* use of a local weather sub-ch: put a SMALL little dot on the main ch indicating some sort of weather warning/alert, then (for those who give a hoot) they can turn to that weather sub-ch and watch the radar images and warnings for Huron County to their hearts content!


I live in NEO, I expect it to snow, I don't need a bunch of silly warnings telling me ................................... it's going to snow.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15373756
> 
> 
> Nah, with all the other weather outlets available it just seems silly to me. Weather Ch (is that on basic cable?), Weather.com, buy a weather radio for $10, newspaper, phone weather, psychic neighbors.
> 
> 
> If there is anything of importance (and even then 90% of the warnings are pointless) it will be plastered over all the locals with the silly weather warnings. Now, a *proper* use of a local weather sub-ch: put a SMALL little dot on the main ch indicating some sort of weather warning/alert, then (for those who give a hoot) they can turn to that weather sub-ch and watch the radar images and warnings for Huron County to their hearts content!
> 
> 
> I live in NEO, I expect it to snow, I don't need a bunch of silly warnings telling me ................................... it's going to snow.



Most of the time I watched Weather Now on the internet anyway. It is nice to have the local people tell us about the weather. Being a Southern California guy with only a few years experience here in Cleveland, it's a good way to keep me paranoid about going on to the roads. I mean it's a good way to keep me informed about the roads.










I did live in Northern Kentucky for 7 years before moving here. In my county, 4 inches on the ground and a Snow Emergency was declared. I asked Geauga County about how come I never hear about Snow Emergencies, and was told we don't have them!


----------



## Trip in VA

I live in Southside Virginia. They've closed schools on a dusting, on flurries starting as buses start to roll, and even on the threat of snow.


I have a friend in Cleveland and she tells me how she'd go to school in all this snow, seemed so unusual! But that's the difference in what you're used to, what the local geography is like, and what your Department of Transportation can do I guess.










- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants

^Ya, it's all bout how "equiped" the road dept is in your area. In somewhere like VA, if they don't get hit with ice and snow often enough, then it doesn't make sense to have a road crew and all that eqipment dedicated to winter weather. It's easier to just call the schools and businesses down for a day or two.


I grew up in North Carolina as a kid, and I remember if we saw a few snow flakes falling we'd start yelling NO SCHOOL!!! Yet here in NE Ohio, the buses just plow through it.


Hookbill, they DO have emergency advisories here sometimes when the weather gets too bad. I remember serveral years ago, they banned ALL vehihicles OFF the road. If you were caught driving during the ban, you were ticketed unless you have an awefully good excuse to be out.

Of course that was down here in STARK, not sure if they ever do that near Cleveland.


----------



## toby10




Smarty-pants;15374113..............
Hookbill said:


> Yeah, Geauga County (where hook lives and where I grew up, and where I'm headed this evening) is a little different. A snow fall that would close the Shaker Schools is just another day for Geauga County.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dad was our "official school closing headquarters" long before FOX 8 got the title. He always said the same thing after a heavy snow and us kids were questioning if school was closed: "Get your butts down to the bus stop! If the bus doesn't show, then you know there is no school. Now MOVE IT!!!"


----------



## Smarty-pants

^^Ya that's a good one. Then when the kids come back when the bus doesn't show, just tell them..." stay outside and play for a few hours since your already bundled up".

I'm sure today that would be considered child abuse














.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15374363
> 
> 
> ^^Ya that's a good one. Then when the kids come back when the bus doesn't show, just tell them..." stay outside and play for a few hours since your already bundled up".
> 
> I'm sure today that would be considered child abuse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



HA! LOL










Yup, and AMAZINGLY, we survived it ALL without 24 hour weather crap and no TV screen covering radar maps and other such nonsense to interrupt viewing (when we could actually get a signal).


----------



## hookbill

I did live one year in Lowell Massachusetts when I was 16 years old. I only recall one school closing and to give you an idea, Lowell is just a few miles from the New Hampshire border.


That's why I'm so amazed at all the closings here. Of course that was in 1969.


As far as Geauga County goes it's the Sheriff who decides on "snow emergencies" and I talked to his assistant and he has never called one.


I'd like to get into the "we survived it" thing but we've already gone way off topic.


----------



## JJkizak

I lived and worked in Geauga county for 10 years and the drivers from there do not screw around, they just boogie. In the summertime if you were driving at 60 mph you would most likely be tailgated. One dude on 306 would pass me every morning going to work with my vehicle at 70mph and his at an estimated 120 mph in a hemi pickup truck. Every day. Of course it's impossible now with all the lights. Yes, the old days.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

Merry Christmas everyone.


As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm on 11/20. Tonight I watched Smallville recorded from that date.


It appears that WBNX has dropped it's "surround sound," that I was hearing but unfortunately there is nothing going to the back speakers again.


Now in this case it's a good thing, because what they had for the last 3 or 4 weeks was horrible. While this is still not what it should be, it's much better then what it was.


So now I hear what Toby10 was talking about 4 pages back. 3 speakers in the front, nothing in the back *except* the commercials. Amazingly they seem to come in perfect Dolby 5.1.


That really confuses me. Why would the commercials come in good but not the actual show?


On second thought I could be wrong about the commercials. Since I usually use the 30 second skip and tick I don't really watch them but sometimes I will land on one and during one of those times I did notice the back speakers came on. If it was real Dolby, I don't know. I just assumed it was.


----------



## Cleveland Plasma

Same to you, nothing says it better than below.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Slacker George* /forum/post/15377008
> 
> 
> Now that it's official, Merry Christmas LBP style! Have a good one.
> 
> >>


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15375465
> 
> 
> I lived and worked in Geauga county for 10 years and the drivers from there do not screw around, they just boogie. In the summertime if you were driving at 60 mph you would most likely be tailgated. One dude on 306 would pass me every morning going to work with my vehicle at 70mph and his at an estimated 120 mph in a hemi pickup truck. Every day. Of course it's impossible now with all the lights. Yes, the old days.
> 
> JJK



I know this is all off topic but this just hits home! I never understood the mentality of Geauga county driving. On a nice clear day everyone seems to drive below the speed limits, turn on the bad weather rain/snow with low visibility & everyone wants to prove their driving skills by tailgating & driving like neandrathallic maniacs. I dated a woman in Rock Creek, so I had to pass through Geauga on 528 & 166 (she was originally from Thompson/Montville herself) & I asked her why she always drove so fast especially in low visibility situations, she proudly snapped she 'knew the roads' there.... needless to say one dark morning a deer jumped in front of her causing her to flip over.


Passing someone in Geauga County is sort of like challenging them to a drag race too at times, they'll intentionally speed up to see if you'll back down!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15373756
> 
> 
> Nah, with all the other weather outlets available it just seems silly to me. Weather Ch (is that on basic cable?), Weather.com, buy a weather radio for $10, newspaper, phone weather, psychic neighbors.
> 
> 
> If there is anything of importance (and even then 90% of the warnings are pointless) it will be plastered over all the locals with the silly weather warnings. Now, a *proper* use of a local weather sub-ch: put a SMALL little dot on the main ch indicating some sort of weather warning/alert, then (for those who give a hoot) they can turn to that weather sub-ch and watch the radar images and warnings for Huron County to their hearts content!
> 
> 
> I live in NEO, I expect it to snow, I don't need a bunch of silly warnings telling me ................................... it's going to snow.




Sh!# we are indeed having a 'White Christmas' here I was looking forward to one dry day without the slop & mess associated with the snow, along with the corrosives they use that I'm allergic to.


I guess I can appreciate your thoughts on this, since you are shelling out big bucks for premiums why have the redundency?


Phone weather is gone, I have a WX radio & was once part of the SKYwarn program, but not having cable I would miss these 2 subs. I agree that would be a good use for subs instead of breaking into regular programing, along with pre empting regular broadcast for a football game ect. I still think Cleveland should keep at least one good OTA weather sub.


I see most of you have access to a secondary OTA market too, I would likely be able to pick up Erie as my secondary if they weren't running their milliwatt transmitters there that barely make it into Ohio.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15378566
> 
> 
> Sh!# we are indeed having a 'White Christmas' here I was looking forward to one dry day without the slop & mess associated with the snow, along with the corrosives they use that I'm allergic to.
> 
> 
> I still think Cleveland should keep at least one good OTA weather sub.



Hey, you still do. 19.2


----------



## hookbill

It's running continuously today, as I'm sure many of you are aware. So like I probably do every year, I give it a look and I think the quality doesn't look good and all the commercials. I believe I skipped last year.


So I got my old DVD out and I really don't know when I looked at it last but it kind of reminds me of CD's when they first came out of old albums. Basically they were just the tapes of the albums themselves so you could hear hissing and such. I have all the original albums of The Beatles on CD when they first came out and some of them are in mono.


Anyway I watched the whole DVD. The sound came in as Dolby 1.0! Huh? I never noticed that. And it was being broadcast through the middle speaker and wolfer only, and the only way I could get the other speakers working was by putting my amplifer on one of those Cinema type settings.


I don't know what TBS is showing exactly but whatever they have is probably better then my DVD. My back speakers didn't light up at all, and the picture looked kind of washed out. Now on my DVD the picture was a bit crisper, however like the old CD's I mentioned you could see little bits of "film" glitches, you know those black spots, here and there.


Maybe next Christmas I'll see if they have a newer version of it.


----------



## nickdawg

Late last night until about noon today WUAB was running their own cheesy version of the Yule Log. A picture of a fireplace with seasonal music in the background. And it was in HD!! Now why can WUAB play a damn fireplace in HD, but not programs like "Two and a half men", "Without a Trace" and "Cold Case" and "The King of Queens" over on the WOIO side.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15379311
> 
> 
> Late last night until about noon today WUAB was running their own cheesy version of the Yule Log. A picture of a fireplace with seasonal music in the background. And it was in HD!! Now why can WUAB play a damn fireplace in HD, but not programs like "Two and a half men", "Without a Trace" and "Cold Case" and "The King of Queens" over on the WOIO side.



And Merry Christmas to you too nickdawg!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15379403
> 
> 
> And Merry Christmas to you too nickdawg!



What, a guy can't have a Christmas rant??













































I was just really upset that the original 1960s WPIX Yule Log was nowhere to be seen last night. There was some new POS on WGN, you can read about it on the main HDTV forum here.


----------



## hookbill

OK, so tonight I watch Supernatural, which followed Smallville. Dolby 5.1, to perfection. Unbelievable. During the THEN and Now I saw those back speakers light up. I thought, well let's see here. All through the show, fantastic sound with all that strange stuff going on.


A big thumbs up. And I finally cleared up 11/20 today.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15379273
> 
> 
> It's running continuously today, as I'm sure many of you are aware. So like I probably do every year, I give it a look and I think the quality doesn't look good and all the commercials. I believe I skipped last year.
> 
> 
> So I got my old DVD out and I really don't know when I looked at it last but it kind of reminds me of CD's when they first came out of old albums. Basically they were just the tapes of the albums themselves so you could hear hissing and such. I have all the original albums of The Beatles on CD when they first came out and some of them are in mono.
> 
> 
> Anyway I watched the whole DVD. The sound came in as Dolby 1.0! Huh? I never noticed that. And it was being broadcast through the middle speaker and wolfer only, and the only way I could get the other speakers working was by putting my amplifer on one of those Cinema type settings.
> 
> 
> I don't know what TBS is showing exactly but whatever they have is probably better then my DVD. My back speakers didn't light up at all, and the picture looked kind of washed out. Now on my DVD the picture was a bit crisper, however like the old CD's I mentioned you could see little bits of "film" glitches, you know those black spots, here and there.
> 
> 
> Maybe next Christmas I'll see if they have a newer version of it.



Hook, it is a modern movie made to look old. From film grain and even the ORIGINAL mono soundtrack too. It really was made to look old, so what you see is probably as good as it's ever going to get.

Blu-ray and HD DVD versions do have a sharper/crispier picture, but it will almost always have that washed out look, and the mono track will probably never be upgraded.

If you have to have some type of "surroundness", most receiver's have a DSP called ALL CHANNEL STEREO or something similar to that. So you could force the mono track into something like that, and then the sound should come out of all speakers... it just won't be true surround sound.


MeRRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15380993
> 
> 
> Hook, it is a modern movie made to look old. From film grain and even the ORIGINAL mono soundtrack too. It really was made to look old, so what you see is probably as good as it's ever going to get.
> 
> Blu-ray and HD DVD versions do have a sharper/crispier picture, but it will almost always have that washed out look, and the mono track will probably never be upgraded.
> 
> If you have to have some type of "surroundness", most receiver's have a DSP called ALL CHANNEL STEREO or something similar to that. So you could force the mono track into something like that, and then the sound should come out of all speakers... it just won't be true surround sound.
> 
> 
> MeRRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!



I think the TBS airing was in surround sound. They probably used their stupid fake surround most HD stations use on all programming.


I don't think you can turn 1.0 into surround. 3/2.21 and 1/0 are usually forced, regardless of Pro Logic settings. I've tried to modify the WBNX/WKYC 3/2.1 mess into surround and it would only pass what is sent from the source.


Now if you set it to PCM, then you can use stereo surround upconvert. Or just use regular L/R (white/red) baseband cables.


----------



## nickdawg

After about a week of the P.I.T.A. Pioneer STB on my bedroom TV, I've decided to dump it. The UI/program guide have always been slow. But now it is painfully slow and the IPG doesn't work. It's always "Loading". Yet the SA box in the living room is perfect. I've decided to dump this POS and getting another SD box as replacement is like buying a new VCR or record player: pointless. So I'd like to know what is available in non-DVR HD boxes. The last one I had was a few years back. It was the SA 3100HD. It was an OK box, but I assume it would perform about as well as the Pioneer one with running MDN. The latest one I've seen is the SA 4250HD. Anyone have one? Is it really bad? Or is it a step up over a SDTV box?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15378566
> 
> 
> ........I guess I can appreciate your thoughts on this, since you are shelling out big bucks for premiums why have the redundency? ...............(



eh....This doesn't bother me. The Weather Ch is one of many ch's I have available to me that I don't use. I do gladly pay a premium for a better selection of digital and HD ch's as well as movie ch's. Part of that premium is greater choice of ch's, many of which I choose not to watch.










Interrupting my viewing to inform me of a thunderstorm in Lodi, THAT bothers me!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15381373
> 
> 
> After about a week of the P.I.T.A. Pioneer STB on my bedroom TV, I've decided to dump it. The UI/program guide have always been slow. But now it is painfully slow and the IPG doesn't work. It's always "Loading". Yet the SA box in the living room is perfect. I've decided to dump this POS and getting another SD box as replacement is like buying a new VCR or record player: pointless. So I'd like to know what is available in non-DVR HD boxes. The last one I had was a few years back. It was the SA 3100HD. It was an OK box, but I assume it would perform about as well as the Pioneer one with running MDN. The latest one I've seen is the SA 4250HD. Anyone have one? Is it really bad? Or is it a step up over a SDTV box?



I stand corrected the other box in my house is a SA4250HDC and to the best of my knowledge the box in my house it works just fine.


I say "to the best of my knowledge" because the only time I ever have looked at it was when I set it up. My wife uses this television and she watches nothing but shopping channels, but from what she says she has no problems.


When I did look at it HD looked great on a 27" LG HD television, and functions appeared tobe fine. I just asked her and she said the guide loads fine.


I don't know if they have "SD" boxes anymore, I think they all are HD capable. Remember, HD comes with digital service.


----------



## hookbill

I see what nickdawg is complaining about during daytime television. The black line on the tv during non-HD shows. However this is non existent on a OTA digital broadcast via 5.1.


Now why we get this on HD via cable, I don't know. It does show to me however that their digital broadcast is just fine, OTA and as I pointed out to nickdawg HD and OTA are not the same.


How does this channel appear to anyone who owns a HD set and receives via OTA? Do you get the black line at the top of the screen?


BTW I don't think it's a big deal and worth complaining about. I'm just curious.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15382610
> 
> 
> I see what nickdawg is complaining about during daytime television. The black line on the tv during non-HD shows. However this is non existent on a OTA digital broadcast via 5.1.
> 
> 
> Now why we get this on HD via cable, I don't know. It does show to me however that their digital broadcast is just fine, OTA and as I pointed out to nickdawg HD and OTA are not the same.
> 
> 
> How does this channel appear to anyone who owns a HD set and receives via OTA? Do you get the black line at the top of the screen?
> 
> 
> BTW I don't think it's a big deal and worth complaining about. I'm just curious.



WEWS is sent by fiber feed. I remember discussion of it here before, TWC had other problems with it earlier this year. The other fiber feed is WKYC, for obvious reasons. I can understand why WKYC is, but not WEWS. I get the feeling we would have better results if WEWS was an OTA. Plus we'd have a beautiful SD version fed from HD right now, like the other channels.


I think it's a big deal. The line is OBVIOUS at the bottom of the screen. It looked ridiculous.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15381958
> 
> 
> eh....This doesn't bother me. The Weather Ch is one of many ch's I have available to me that I don't use. I do gladly pay a premium for a better selection of digital and HD ch's as well as movie ch's. Part of that premium is greater choice of ch's, many of which I choose not to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interrupting my viewing to inform me of a thunderstorm in Lodi, THAT bothers me!



And they still cut in. WOIO and WKYC still cut in regular programming with weather info. Both still run weather crawls on the main channel. Since they do that, I'd rather see both channels go away and that bandwidth reclaimed by the "-1" channel, the way it *should* be. At least the big three(NBC, ABC, CBS) *SHOULD* be required to give their HD channels full bandwidth, no having 2 or 3 channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15385815
> 
> 
> I think it's a big deal. The line is OBVIOUS at the bottom of the screen. It looked ridiculous.



Hmmmm....I thought that's what you said in your previous post.


Mine however, is on the top!










Interesting, huh?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15385956
> 
> 
> Hmmmm....I thought that's what you said in your previous post.
> 
> 
> Mine however, is on the top!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, huh?



Pictures? I've never seen a line on top on WEWS.


----------



## Inundated

Oddly enough, I stumbled onto another "Yule Log" channel on Christmas Day...believe it or not, Time Warner Cable's own "NEON" (23).


As befitting its status in the TV world, it looked like the fire was just videotaped by one of their camera people. Maybe they threw a log or two in a fireplace somewhere on the set of "More Sports and Les Levine"?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15386867
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, I stumbled onto another "Yule Log" channel on Christmas Day...believe it or not, Time Warner Cable's own "NEON" (23).
> 
> 
> As befitting its status in the TV world, it looked like the fire was just videotaped by one of their camera people. Maybe they threw a log or two in a fireplace somewhere on the set of "More Sports and Les Levine"?



Sounds awful. The one on WUAB looked generic too. And it had a "McCafe" logo in the corner the whole time. Even the fact is was HD couldn't save it.


WGN showed an awful new Yule Log. The only place to see the original one was on WPIX. At least that one wasn't messed with.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15386867
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, I stumbled onto another "Yule Log" channel on Christmas Day...believe it or not, Time Warner Cable's own "NEON" (23).
> 
> 
> As befitting its status in the TV world, it looked like the fire was just videotaped by one of their camera people. Maybe they threw a log or two in a fireplace somewhere on the set of "More Sports and Les Levine"?



C'mon guys! The Yule log is on every year on the old Adelphia channel, why wouldn't it be on TW's?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15386289
> 
> 
> Pictures? I've never seen a line on top on WEWS.



I'll see what I can do. I'm not good with the camera but the wife is. All I know is how to use the cell camera.


Can you give me some instructions for uploading a picture here? I'll see if I can send it tomorrow. But it's on the top, I swear.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15387097
> 
> 
> C'mon guys! The Yule log is on every year on the old Adelphia channel, why wouldn't it be on TW's?



Man I had tons of holiday eats yesterday, and I just got done dropping a couple "yule logs" a few minutes ago. I don't think I'd ever enjoy watching it on tv though. What kind of sick stuff are you guys into?










































.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15387113
> 
> 
> I'll see what I can do. I'm not good with the camera but the wife is. All I know is how to use the cell camera.
> 
> 
> Can you give me some instructions for uploading a picture here? I'll see if I can send it tomorrow. But it's on the top, I swear.



When you want to post the picture, click on "Go Advanced" under the message box. Scroll down and it says Attach Files, there's a button "Manage Attachments". Click that and follow the instructions there. There's file size limits.


----------



## ErieMarty

channel 326.....the new MLB Network...


Guess it isn't available on basic cable...since 300 series is digital..

http://mlb.mlb.com/network/ 


plus not available as of today on the Dish Network.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15387224
> 
> 
> channel 326.....the new MLB Network...
> 
> 
> Guess it isn't available on basic cable...since 300 series is digital..
> 
> http://mlb.mlb.com/network/
> 
> 
> plus not available as of today on the Dish Network.



Good. At this point, NOTHING should be added to analog cable. If TWC actually _adds_ a channel to analog now, as transitions to digital begin with three years to that 2012 deadline, they are dumber than I thought.


And, they better *NOT* add the HD version of this channel(if one exists). I'm already pissed enough with the Big Ten HD channel. That's a waste of bandwidth. Whenever a game with mass interest in Ohio is shown, it should be on one of the HD bonus channels. There's no need to offer a niche channel like BTN HD full time, when other networks like USA, F/X, and CNN are not available yet.


----------



## ErieMarty

what will happen to the Basic (analog) channels ???


will Basic cable start with the 100 Series of the digital lineup..or what ??


MLB network is suppose to be offered in HD..will Time Warner pick it up ??..who knows..I think the last HD Channel they gave us was Big Ten Network...(not counting MGM because that replaced MOJO that went under)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15387367
> 
> 
> what will happen to the Basic (analog) channels ???
> 
> 
> will Basic cable start with the 100 Series of the digital lineup..or what ??
> 
> 
> MLB network is suppose to be offered in HD..will Time Warner pick it up ??..who knows..I think the last HD Channel they gave us was Big Ten Network...(not counting MGM because that replaced MOJO that went under)



Unfortunately, TWC of NE Ohio will continue to operate the same. Nothing is changing. All cable TVs will still work on 2/17/09. All satellite TVs will work on 2/17/09. Cable/Satellite will be downconverting the SD local channels from the HD versions and national cable networks are not required to change distribution methods.

_Unrelated to the OTA transition, cable companies have the option of going to an all digital system where all customers are required to have a settop box on their TVs. This would free up tons of bandwidth to add more HD channels. Unfortunately, there isn't much interest in this at the moment. Probably because of the cost involved with buying TONS more boxes for all the customers._


Since Cable is not Over The Air, they can continue broadcasting in analog until their deadline, which is supposed to be sometime in 2012.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15387317
> 
> 
> Good. At this point, NOTHING should be added to analog cable. If TWC actually _adds_ a channel to analog now, as transitions to digital begin with three years to that 2012 deadline, they are dumber than I thought.
> 
> 
> And, they better *NOT* add the HD version of this channel(if one exists). I'm already pissed enough with the Big Ten HD channel. That's a waste of bandwidth. Whenever a game with mass interest in Ohio is shown, it should be on one of the HD bonus channels. There's no need to offer a niche channel like BTN HD full time, when other networks like USA, F/X, and CNN are not available yet.



Are you out of your ever lovin' friggin mind? (ansewer: yes, this in nickdawg)







Of course this should be in HD!


WTF, nickdawg, you want CNN instead of MLB? Why? Most of their footage shots will still be shown in SD which means you have sidebars.


I'm thrilled they've added this channel and I want it in HD. I like baseball. But this may be a tease, I hear "sports tier" coming and an extra 5 bucks.


----------



## ErieMarty

I thought they already have one for $5.00 extra per month...


Can't remember what extra you get with it...


MLB Network is nice to have..but when it comes time to watch baseball I am going to be tuned into STO in HD for my Indians...


but I would bet if you asked the end TW User if they would rather have NFL or MLB Network..


NFL would win 3-1...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15388871
> 
> 
> I thought they already have one for $5.00 extra per month...
> 
> 
> Can't remember what extra you get with it...
> 
> 
> MLB Network is nice to have..but when it comes time to watch baseball I am going to be tuned into STO in HD for my Indians...
> 
> 
> but I would bet if you asked the end TW User if they would rather have NFL or MLB Network..
> 
> 
> NFL would win 3-1...



So, over in the Erie area they already are hitting you up, huh Marty? They haven't done that to us yet, but I suspect it's coming.


The problem with NFL Network and TW is that TW insists on having it on their Sports Tier, and NFL has said No No No!


I took a look at the schedule. I saw on one date they will televising "Dodger Blue" a history of great Dodger teams. I looked for something for the Tribe but all I could find was game 7 of the 2007 ALCS.


And I know how much you guys all want to relive that moment!


----------



## hookbill

Going, going, gone? I wonder.


I thought this was suppose to replace MLB Extra Innings, and that MLB would be showing their own games. However now I'm not to sure.


First, last season MLB Extra Innings was charging a whopping 199.00 for the season. That's up from 3 years ago when I paid 128.00 and I believe I paid 139.00 two years ago. I decided not to purchase in advance but if I saw that 199.00 price tag, no way would I have done it anyways.


So I find it real hard to believe that MLB channel will not be more a less another sports channel like ESPN but just for baseball. Oh they may show a game or so live, and maybe ESPN is out of the picture for all I know but I don't think they are going to give up that cash cow they have with InDemand.


I took a look at InDemand's Web page and it shows a banner saying "check with us next season."


At 199.00 and this economy, lots of luck InDemand.


----------



## ErieMarty

NFL has the Ticket for its sunday games out of your market and same with MLB with its Extra Innings...


incase I moved to Florida I could get the MLB Extra Innings to keep up with the Indians..


the Ticket and Extra Innings I don't think are tied into either the NFL or MLB Network.


PS..as far as the Extra Cost for Extra Innings..I wonder how much the NFL Ticket has gone up in the last 5 years..I know if you want the GAMES in HD..you have to pay an extra $100 per season on the Ticket...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15388988
> 
> 
> PS..as far as the Extra Cost for Extra Innings..I wonder how much the NFL Ticket has gone up in the last 5 years..*I know if you want the GAMES in HD..you have to pay an extra $100 per season on the Ticket.*..



WoW. What a Major League rip off!


----------



## ErieMarty

the best part is that he is a Detroit Lions fan and he spent the extra $100 to watch it in HD This year..


Nice investment...


lol


----------



## hookbill

Take it from the top, nickdawg. Attachment 127746


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15389095
> 
> 
> Take it from the top, nickdawg. Attachment 127746



Yup. That's what I was talking about a while ago in here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=15682 


It is present on WOW HD ch 5 as well. Not present on WOW analog ch 5 nor OTA. Must be their HD feed to all cable co's that is screwy?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15389226
> 
> 
> Yup. That's what I was talking about a while ago in here:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=15682
> 
> 
> It is present on WOW HD ch 5 as well. Not present on WOW analog ch 5 nor OTA. Must be their HD feed to all cable co's that is screwy?



LOL!!! So are you saying you have the line on the top too? nickdawg says it's on the bottom.


The question is, is it there on HD OTA? I can see on the regular OTA digital feed it's not there, but I'm wondering if it's there watching an HD capable television on channel on 5.1.


As far as nickdawg, it just fits in that he might see it differently then us! He lives in the nickdawg bizzarro world.

















Where are the OTA people when you need them?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15389301
> 
> 
> LOL!!! So are you saying you have the line on the top too? nickdawg says it's on the bottom.
> 
> 
> The question is, is it there on HD OTA? I can see on the regular OTA digital feed it's not there, but I'm wondering if it's there watching an HD capable television on channel on 5.1.
> 
> 
> As far as nickdawg, it just fits in that he might see it differently then us! He lives in the nickdawg bizzarro world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the OTA people when you need them?



I think you and I are talking about a different issue than is nickdawg.

No, as I said, it is not on OTA HD. Only the cable feed that I can see.

For me OTA is only HD, I suppose I should have clarified.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15389375
> 
> 
> I think you and I are talking about a different issue than is nickdawg.
> 
> No, as I said, it is not on OTA HD. Only the cable feed that I can see.
> 
> For me OTA is only HD, I suppose I should have clarified.



No, I'm not talking about a different issue, and thanks you answered my question in more then one way.


Nickdawg is saying that the line you and I see is on top of the screen is on the bottom of the screen on WEWS. Same channel, different location. He requested an upload of a picture, I guess he found it hard to believe.


Your response clarifies that this "defect" appears not only on TW but also on WOW. I'm sure that they don't share the same feed. You also clarified that OTA HD does not have this issue.


I've always questioned as to how cable actually receives it's picture on local television. However I now think it has to be a direct fiber feed, or else everyone would see this defect. The question to me is why use a direct fiber feed? Isn't that expensive?


And then there is the "conversion" issue. Can you send an analog feed via fiber? If not then why does TW, in my area, convert the locals from analog to digital. Wouldn't they have to convert them to analog? Why reconvert again to digital?


It seems to me the logical thing would be they simply receive an analog signal OTA and convert it to digital. But that still doesn't explain the line on WEWS HD.


I'd send an email about it but I'm sure it would follow with "We'd like to send a tech out."


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15389459
> 
> 
> I've always questioned as to how cable actually receives it's picture on local television. However I now think it has to be a direct fiber feed, or else everyone would see this defect. The question to me is why use a direct fiber feed? Isn't that expensive?



A direct fiber feed benefits both the broadcaster and the cable operator. If the station's transmitter or STL goes down and they're knocked off the air, they still have a signal on cable. This saves the broadscaster from losing a lot of ad revenue, and it keeps the phones quiet at the cable company. It also saves the broadscaster from the occasional vagaries of RF propagation issues. Everybody wins.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15390372
> 
> 
> A direct fiber feed benefits both the broadcaster and the cable operator. If the station's transmitter or STL goes down and they're knocked off the air, they still have a signal on cable. This saves the broadscaster from losing a lot of ad revenue, and it keeps the phones quiet at the cable company. It also saves the broadscaster from the occasional vagaries of RF propagation issues. Everybody wins.



Makes sense. Thanks.


So getting back to the WEWS HD "black line" on SD I guess since two cable companies are experiencing the same thing it must be something in the transmission on those fiber lines. I don't believe two cable companies can use the same cable. Assuming that the cable has to split somewhere you can only come to one conclusion:

nickdawg is right!










But I still don't think it's worth complaining about.


----------



## TJAZ2000

Hi Folks,

New to this site. Hope you can help me. I have a mother-in-law who lives near Massillon/Dalton area in an assisted living home. She is worried about not being able to get digital reception in her room since the home has no cable or satellite available. She receives all analog stations with rabbit ears now. My wife and I live in Arizona and would like to buy her a new digital TV and rabbit ears if there is any chance of her getting reception there. The horror stories I've been reading on this post about the Cleveland broadcasting worries us. Any help would be appreciated. Great site by the way.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TJAZ2000* /forum/post/15391007
> 
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> New to this site. Hope you can help me. I have a mother-in-law who lives near Massillon/Dalton area in an assisted living home. She is worried about not being able to get digital reception in her room since the home has no cable or satellite available. She receives all analog stations with rabbit ears now. My wife and I live in Arizona and would like to buy her a new digital TV and rabbit ears if there is any chance of her getting reception there. The horror stories I've been reading on this post about the Cleveland broadcasting worries us. Any help would be appreciated. Great site by the way.



Rabbit ears???... no.

You'll need to get a good small antenna that can pick up digital signals over the air. ...and hopfully she'll have a window or back door that is open to the north/northeast/northwest. Otherwise, she may be SOL







.

What kind of assisted living home doesn't have cable?









I know they rake you over the coals on the pricing, but I thought they all had it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15391099
> 
> 
> Rabbit ears???... no.
> 
> You'll need to get a good small antenna that can pick up digital signals over the air. ...and hopfully she'll have a window or back door that is open to the north/northeast/northwest. Otherwise, she may be SOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> What kind of assisted living home doesn't have cable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know they rake you over the coals on the pricing, but I thought they all had it.



Maybe yes, maybe no. Probably your right.


There are some good indoor antennas, but as Smarty-pants points out you will need a little luck. Take a look here . It can give you some detail.


I'm not as far away from Cleveland as she is and I can barely get a signal with an indoor antenna. However I do not have a window facing towards Cleveland so that is part of the problem. Also terrain.


And I agree about cable. What nursing home doesn't have it? Basic lifeline isn't that expensive.


----------



## hookbill

OK, I know we've kind of ran this to death by now, but I saw something else today.


The line on WEWS goes away if I put my television aspect ration on either a stretch or "by program." I also have "Just Scan" when I'm on an HD channel, and I see the line there and set to 16x9.


So maybe it isn't WEWS fault. the "by program" setting reduces the size of the picture just a bit, and that gets rid of that annoying line. So if you're seeing it, try fooling with your televisions aspect ratio. YMMV


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15389095
> 
> 
> Take it from the top, nickdawg. Attachment 127746



I have that too. As far as I can remember, that's always been on top of the screen on analog upconvert programming. What I thought you meant was the black line from the bottom of the screen was on top. These are two different things.


The line at the top of the screen is only on analog upconvert programming, not HD.


The line at the bottom of the screen is solid black and on during HD and non HD programming.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15388846
> 
> 
> Are you out of your ever lovin' friggin mind? (ansewer: yes, this in nickdawg)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course this should be in HD!
> 
> 
> WTF, nickdawg, you want CNN instead of MLB? Why? Most of their footage shots will still be shown in SD which means you have sidebars.
> 
> 
> I'm thrilled they've added this channel and I want it in HD. I like baseball. But this may be a tease, I hear "sports tier" coming and an extra 5 bucks.



If they are going to put MLB in the sports tier, then there better *NOT* be a HD version. If TWC is adding *pay* HDTV channels, they're out of their minds. That's the last thing we need. It's a niche channel. Channels like USA and F/X should be added first, since they have mass appeal.


It's as bad as Big Ten HD. The other day flipping through channels, rather than seeing what was on USA HD and F/X HD, instead I got to see old games on BTN HD, with stupid patterned sidebars on the sides!!! We have two "HD Bonus" channels now. Any new game with Ohio could be shown there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15391899
> 
> 
> If they are going to put MLB in the sports tier, then there better *NOT* be a HD version. If TWC is adding *pay* HDTV channels, they're out of their minds. That's the last thing we need. It's a niche channel. Channels like USA and F/X should be added first, since they have mass appeal.
> 
> 
> It's as bad as Big Ten HD. The other day flipping through channels, rather than seeing what was on USA HD and F/X HD, instead I got to see old games on BTN HD, with stupid patterned sidebars on the sides!!! We have two "HD Bonus" channels now. Any new game with Ohio could be shown there.



But wouldn't you like to see the replay of game 7 in the ACLS against Boston in HD?
























In regards to a black line at the bottom in HD, nope, I don't see that.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15389095
> 
> 
> Take it from the top, nickdawg. Attachment 127746



This is something very specific.


This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line (which you'd see on the original analog if you mess with the vertical hold. Or horizontal...I always forget which is which).


I believe a TV station can strip this line out, which really shouldn't be there on the digital side. Since overscan on many sets is set to clip it, not everyone sees it. (It also doesn't appear when the upconversion from SD/analog is done by the network, since they have no need for the VBI line.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15393576
> 
> 
> This is something very specific.
> 
> 
> This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line (which you'd see on the original analog if you mess with the vertical hold. Or horizontal...I always forget which is which).'



My first thought was vertical, because that's kind of common sense. But when I select the "set by program" feature it actually slightly shrinks the HD telecast, can't be more the a 1/32 of and inch on both sides, if that much and that seems to go to the top of the picture. Like it transfers it.


The two settings on my television that I have for like an "automatic scan" are Just Scan and set by program. However Just Scan only is available when you are on a HD channel, where as Set To Program is always available. You would think they would do the same thing but there is a difference. When you set to Just Scan and you go back to aspect on a SD channel it defaults to 16:9. Set to program however does not change, hence when you change WEWS it somehow adjusts ever so slightly to remove that line.


My old Sony had a default you could set so that whenever you were not receiving HD it would go to that setting. Basically the LG works the same way, it defaults to your last setting but the Sony would allow you to select something called "Wide Scan" that put a stretch on the picture but didn't add panels to the non HD shows and didn't make the appearance of people seem fat. You could notice however like on CNN that you would just see the top of the news scroll.


----------



## Cathode Kid




hookbill said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15393576
> 
> 
> This is something very specific.
> 
> 
> This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I see what looks line line 21 closed-caption data in that photo, as well as possibly the network clock signal and maybe a line of some other test signal.
Click to expand...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15396590
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I see what looks line line 21 closed-caption data in that photo, as well as possibly the network clock signal and maybe a line of some other test signal.



All good information, but my point is you don't have to look at it. There should be some way to get it of on your aspect settings.


Any thoughts as to why this only happens on WEWS?


----------



## hookbill

What's up with the quote? It seems like AVS is having an issue. For some reason the above post had my name as the quoted person, when I edited I had to remove my name.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15389375
> 
> 
> I think you and I are talking about a different issue than is nickdawg.
> 
> No, as I said, it is not on OTA HD. Only the cable feed that I can see.
> 
> For me OTA is only HD, I suppose I should have clarified.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15390465
> 
> 
> Makes sense. Thanks.
> 
> 
> So getting back to the WEWS HD "black line" on SD I guess since two cable companies are experiencing the same thing it must be something in the transmission on those fiber lines. I don't believe two cable companies can use the same cable.



They may not be using the same cable but my guess is somewhere in transmission chain at Ch. 5 is a Dist. Amp that feeds the fiber transmitters and engineering needs to do a little tweeking to that piece of eqipment is to mask the verticle at the top.

the overscan area was never much of a concern until the newer monitors and flat screens starting coming out. bet they don't even see it in most of their monitors


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15396854
> 
> 
> They may not be using the same cable but my guess is somewhere in transmission chain at Ch. 5 is a Dist. Amp that feeds the fiber transmitters and engineering needs to do a little tweeking to that piece of eqipment is to mask the verticle at the top.
> 
> the overscan area was never much of a concern until the newer monitors and flat screens starting coming out. bet they don't even see it in most of their monitors



Yeah, they may not know. I never see it myself either as I use Full mode (accurate stretch) the few times I watch WEWS HD when they are broadcasting an upscaled analog show. Only in 4:3 or Anamorphic with sidebars do I see it. Sidebars annoy me.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15396679
> 
> 
> All good information, but my point is you don't have to look at it. There should be some way to get it of on your aspect settings.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts as to why this only happens on WEWS?



It could be tweaked out at the tv set with the right amount of vertical overscan and centering. This might be reachable from the set's service menu.


I'm guessing the station is feeding this from a point in their distribution system that's downstream from the line-21 insertion gear. I don't know why this is; I can only speculate based on what everyone is seeing.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15393576
> 
> 
> This is something very specific.
> 
> 
> This is the analog "Vertical Blanking Interval" line making it to the digital signal. Somewhere in the encoding/upconvert of the WEWS analog signal to digital, they haven't stripped out the line (which you'd see on the original analog if you mess with the vertical hold. Or horizontal...I always forget which is which).
> 
> 
> I believe a TV station can strip this line out, which really shouldn't be there on the digital side. Since overscan on many sets is set to clip it, not everyone sees it. (It also doesn't appear when the upconversion from SD/analog is done by the network, since they have no need for the VBI line.)



Took the words out of my mouth.







That's why I was so confused over what Hookbill was seeing. I never associated the blanking lines with an error. The black line at the bottom of the screen was an error. This is just normal operation.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15396679
> 
> 
> All good information, but my point is you don't have to look at it. There should be some way to get it of on your aspect settings.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts as to why this only happens on WEWS?



I've seen it on other channels too. I've seen it on SD news video on NBC and CBS as well as on a few cable networks and syndicated programming on local stations WUAB and WBNX and WKYC. WEWS is the only time I've seen it always on SD. It's on and off on the other stations.


It never bothered me. I actually think it's pretty cool. We get to see _all_ of the picture that is there, including the data line. Cool.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15397730
> 
> 
> Yeah, they may not know. I never see it myself either as I use Full mode (accurate stretch) the few times I watch WEWS HD when they are broadcasting an upscaled analog show. Only in 4:3 or Anamorphic with sidebars do I see it. Sidebars annoy me.






































I could never watch stretch. Disfigured heads and oval basketballs annoy me.







I prefer to keep everything they way it is. If it's 4:3, it stays 4:3. If it's 16:9, it stays 16:9. It it's 4:3 and letterbox, it stays windowboxed. I can't stand stretch-o-vision or zoom-o-vision or whatever.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15399099
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could never watch stretch. Disfigured heads and oval basketballs annoy me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer to keep everything they way it is. If it's 4:3, it stays 4:3. If it's 16:9, it stays 16:9. It it's 4:3 and letterbox, it stays windowboxed. I can't stand stretch-o-vision or zoom-o-vision or whatever.



I'm kind of wondering about that Toby. I"ve never been able to stretch an HD channel broadcasting a SD program. I can get rid of that line as I said earlier, and for some reason I can pick the 4:3 option but that's it.


With my old Sony Wega I couldn't change anything. I got the bars and that was that.


As far as stretching goes, I understand where your coming from nickdawg on that but I do stretch SD digital or analog channels and on my LG I use Stretch 2. Unless you've got something scrolling on the bottom (like CNN) you can't see the difference.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15398905
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the station is feeding this from a point in their distribution system that's downstream from the line-21 insertion gear. I don't know why this is; I can only speculate based on what everyone is seeing.



Back in the stone age, time base correctors had a vertical phasing adjustment

that when misadjusted would give a similar effect... pushing the vcr's vertical

interval down into the active picture area...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15399469
> 
> 
> I'm kind of wondering about that Toby. I"ve never been able to stretch an HD channel broadcasting a SD program. I can get rid of that line as I said earlier, and for some reason I can pick the 4:3 option but that's it.
> 
> 
> With my old Sony Wega I couldn't change anything. I got the bars and that was that.
> 
> 
> As far as stretching goes, I understand where your coming from nickdawg on that but I do stretch SD digital or analog channels and on my LG *I use Stretch 2. Unless you've got something scrolling on the bottom (like CNN) you can't see the difference.*












































































Are you pulling my leg on this one? Are you joking? The difference is plain as day. It's wrong. The low quality picture from cable suffers severely from stretching or zooming. Any picture suffers, but the bandwidth starved are the worst. Plus, people look out of shape. Circles look oval, actresses look fat. Not a pretty picture.


I have two ways to stretch. One is through the TV itself, called "WIDE". This is the most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life. It's also the default setting on the TV out of the box. "WIDE" appears to be a non-linear stretch method, like the one used by networks such as TNT and TBS. You know, when things on the sides appear larger and things in the center are smaller or normal size.


The other is "stretch" provided by the cable box. This setting is not as bad as "wide" from the TV, but it's not good either. Objects don't look as distorted, but they still don't look right. I prefer OAR. And the nice thing about Navigator is it won't let you permanently stretch the picture. If you push the "#" button on one channel, it goes back to sidebar when you change the channel.


I have another question for you? What do you do to letterbox programming, like USA or F/X? Do you leave the picture expanded with the bars on top and bottom



































? Or do you use "zoom-o-vision"?


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15399099
> 
> 
> It never bothered me. I actually think it's pretty cool. We get to see _all_ of the picture that is there, including the data line. Cool.



Way Cool!


----------



## Smarty-pants

Nick, a lot of the newer televisions do some nice things that can fill the screen of a 16:9 HDTV with a 4:3 picture.

The best features that do it usually incorperate a combination of zooming AND stretching at the same time. When done properly, or with "quality", most people can not tell it much different from the OAR.

Although like I said, it does incorperate SOME zooming, so a small portion of the top and bottom of the picture is cut off.

If you have a display that does not incorperate automatic overscan of the picture, then it can be very beneficial to use it because after it is done, your display is showing what it normally would if your tv DID have overscan, only now it is filling the entire 16:9 frame.

Also, like I said already too, the newer TVs (or newer technology if you will), can better acomplishing filling the screen WITHOUT degrading the picture.

Like with the newer Oppo dvd players... They can take a letterbox non-anamorphic dvd and make it fill the screen without any degradation to the quality of the picture. Likewise, so can the newer stretch/fill modes in HDTVs do the same.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/15399921
> 
> 
> Way Cool!



Yep, I see cc data, network clock, a line of multiburst and a line of color bars in there. Sometimes a station will even wind up passing VITC timecode from a tape machine directly to air. As wd8kct said, it's sometimes a vertical phase issue on a TBC. These days most on-air playout is from servers though, and these things usually show up in dubs from tape to digital.


A long time ago, ABC used to have a round-robin network between New York, Chicago and Washington, and they'd use VITS to indicate which portions of the circuit were in the on-air loop. They'd do this by modifying the (normally red) modulated 20T burst in the VITS with a different color. Thus by looking at the pulse-cross display, you'd sometimes see a red, green and blue 20T pulse, all stacked up vertically. It was kind of cool to get this little peek behind the scenes in their network's infrastructure.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15381958
> 
> 
> eh....This doesn't bother me. The Weather Ch is one of many ch's I have available to me that I don't use. I do gladly pay a premium for a better selection of digital and HD ch's as well as movie ch's. Part of that premium is greater choice of ch's, many of which I choose not to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interrupting my viewing to inform me of a thunderstorm in Lodi, THAT bothers me!



Like Bruce Maliniowsky was great for pre-empting network programming when he was at 19 (all but 2 minutes of some season finale).


I still really like WX+ & often just leave it on as background noise, I hope they integrate something similar to this instead of dead air like 43.


----------



## Bismarck440

THe GF's father recently purchased a Toshiba 1080P 42", the cable company isisted they needed a box for HD.


I was over there the other day, & the picture they were recieving was GOD AWFUL!!! Without messing anything up, I looked how the box was hooked up. The cable goes into the RF in of the box, & comes out & to the antenna on the set, in addition it looks like they are using the RGB component out to go to the composite input of the set too. They were watching on "Cable CH 4", I'm imagining through the RF out of the box. Switching over to component yielded a slightly better picture, but still very unacceptable, there was data lines above the picture plus the pictures were very grainy, even in supposive HD. The box is made by Scientific Atlanta (unsure of the model #), & has a green display.


I'm still unsure just Why TWC insisted they need the box since they have a QAM tuner. Is this the aggravation one pays for with cable? I was afraid to reset or bypass the box since they may charge them, also I was told they would also charge to make any adjustments on a service call. Is this normally the way TWC operates? & does this seemed hooked up correctly? The aspect ratio also seems to be all over the board with each channel, the larger I make the picture the worse it gets. I think this was installed wrong from the word go.


It makes me appreciate even more a good OTA signal, a shame I live in a RF hole out here & lack of channels from my home market.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15400707
> 
> 
> I still really like WX+ & often just leave it on as background noise, I hope they integrate something similar to this instead of dead air like 43.



I hope they eliminate the channel completely and return the wasted bandwidth to the main HD channel. There's no need to keep a "this channel ended" card running, since cable is dumping the channel on January 1 and nobody can get WKYC OTA anyway.


I *HATE* subchannels with a passion and I hope WOIO follows by killing 19-2. They're useless. If the weather is bad enough, they cu in on the main channel anyway. Any other time, there's TWC on cable or four TV station websites. WOIO's channel is especially worthless since part of the time is just commercials, the weather info is taken off the screen. And when it is shown, it's the same outdated info. At least WKYC _used_ to have new national content inserted.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15400875
> 
> 
> THe GF's father recently purchased a Toshiba 1080P 42", the cable company isisted they needed a box for HD.
> 
> 
> I was over there the other day, & the picture they were recieving was GOD AWFUL!!! Without messing anything up, I looked how the box was hooked up. The cable goes into the RF in of the box, & comes out & to the antenna on the set, in addition it looks like they are using the RGB component out to go to the composite input of the set too. They were watching on "Cable CH 4", I'm imagining through the RF out of the box. Switching over to component yielded a slightly better picture, but still very unacceptable, there was data lines above the picture plus the pictures were very grainy, even in supposive HD. The box is made by Scientific Atlanta (unsure of the model #), & has a green display.
> 
> 
> I'm still unsure just Why TWC insisted they need the box since they have a QAM tuner. Is this the aggravation one pays for with cable? I was afraid to reset or bypass the box since they may charge them, also I was told they would also charge to make any adjustments on a service call. Is this normally the way TWC operates? & does this seemed hooked up correctly? The aspect ratio also seems to be all over the board with each channel, the larger I make the picture the worse it gets. I think this was installed wrong from the word go.
> 
> 
> It makes me appreciate even more a good OTA signal, a shame I live in a RF hole out here & lack of channels from my home market.



It sounds like that box is set up wrong. I have a Scientific Atlanta STB connected via Component and it is fine. What you need to check is Output Resolution. They usually come from the manufacturer or cableco set to 480i as default. That explains why the PQ is bad on HD. You're watching high(720/1080) resolution downscaled to 480i on a high resolution display.


Most cable techs are clueless about their products and what they are doing. The particular one probably didn't understand what they installed and did it as if it were a typical SDTV install. When I had a new box installed on a service call, the one idiot was checking the RF connection and set my TV to channel 4, even after connecting component cables I already had from TWC. I had to change it myself.


TWC insisted on the STB because QAM tuners suck. You don't get all the HD channels as well as other cable features(On Demand, PPV, Guide) plus the channels move around alot and it is a PITA in general.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15401125
> 
> 
> There's no need to keep a "this channel ended" card running, since cable is dumping the channel on January 1 and nobody can get WKYC OTA anyway.



I'm actually having very little trouble with 3.1 & 3.2 lately... that wasn't the case a few months back they must be doing something....only on windy days I occasionally have trouble... Why would wind have an effect on a signal?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15401125
> 
> 
> I *HATE* subchannels with a passion and I hope WOIO follows by killing 19-2. They're useless. If the weather is bad enough, they cu in on the main channel anyway. Any other time, there's TWC on cable or four TV station websites. WOIO's channel is especially worthless since part of the time is just commercials, the weather info is taken off the screen. And when it is shown, it's the same outdated info. At least WKYC _used_ to have new national content inserted.



Reason I prefered WX+ to 19, plus they use the L bar on NBC, & both of these provide clear pictures even at the 480i, now the wx sub on 68-2 was really degraded video & audio.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15401177
> 
> 
> It sounds like that box is set up wrong. I have a Scientific Atlanta STB connected via Component and it is fine. What you need to check is Output Resolution. They usually come from the manufacturer or cableco set to 480i as default. That explains why the PQ is bad on HD. You're watching high(720/1080) resolution downscaled to 480i on a high resolution display.



The box had beacons indicating 720p & 480i, the 480i I indicator was lit on analog, even when the 720p indicator is lit you are still converting this back to analog via the RF connection aren't you defeating the whole HD purpose watching this via CH4?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15401177
> 
> 
> Most cable techs are clueless about their products and what they are doing. .



I figured that











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15401177
> 
> 
> The particular one probably didn't understand what they installed and did it as if it were a typical SDTV install. When I had a new box installed on a service call, the one idiot was checking the RF connection and set my TV to channel 4, even after connecting component cables I already had from TWC. I had to change it myself.
> 
> 
> TWC insisted on the STB because QAM tuners suck. You don't get all the HD channels as well as other cable features(On Demand, PPV, Guide) plus the channels move around alot and it is a PITA in general.



So you are saying the conversion to RF CH 4 is useless, & to use the RGB Component?? This still didn't explain why the RGB was only slightly better than the the RF. Would this loop they are creating be causing some type of feedback?? Even the STB converter on my 32" Sony gives me a lot better picture







, & I know that's in 480i


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15401924
> 
> 
> The box had beacons indicating 720p & 480i, the 480i I indicator was lit on analog, even when the 720p indicator is lit you are still converting this back to analog via the RF connection aren't you defeating the whole HD purpose watching this via CH4?



Yes. RF is only 480i, so regardless of what the box is set to output, you're still getting 480i. Even on a SDTV, I can see a huge difference between S-Video and RF.


I figured that













> Quote:
> So you are saying the conversion to RF CH 4 is useless, & to use the RGB Component?? This still didn't explain why the RGB was only slightly better than the the RF. Would this loop they are creating be causing some type of feedback?? Even the STB converter on my 32" Sony gives me a lot better picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , & I know that's in 480i



You can still have it connected on RF 4, it may be useful if there's also a VCR connected, since VCRs are not component capable. I have Component RGB and the RF 4 cables connected to my box, along with Digital Audio Coax. and the L/R baseband cables. Everything works fine. The only thing I can think of is a wiring problem. Since you said analog, I assume that area still has analog basic cable channels, and those are open to problems with signal. My TVs used to look terrible in analog, but once a new line was ran from the street to the Splitter, PQ improved drastically.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15399099
> 
> 
> ..................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could never watch stretch. Disfigured heads and oval basketballs annoy me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer to keep everything they way it is. If it's 4:3, it stays 4:3. If it's 16:9, it stays 16:9. It it's 4:3 and letterbox, it stays windowboxed. I can't stand stretch-o-vision or zoom-o-vision or whatever.



I agree, if your stretch is inaccurate. Luckily my two panels have very good and accurate "Full" aspect modes, especially the main TV. As I've said before, how NEC is able to get such incredible accuracy in Full mode I dunno, but it's one of the things they are known for.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15399469
> 
> 
> I'm kind of wondering about that Toby. I"ve never been able to stretch an HD channel broadcasting a SD program. I can get rid of that line as I said earlier, and for some reason I can pick the 4:3 option but that's it.
> 
> 
> With my old Sony Wega I couldn't change anything. I got the bars and that was that.
> 
> 
> As far as stretching goes, I understand where your coming from nickdawg on that but I do stretch SD digital or analog channels and on my LG I use Stretch 2. Unless you've got something scrolling on the bottom (like CNN) you can't see the difference.



Different TV's offer different aspect ratio features and is often related to the input being used. Some allow you to change the aspect on any feed, some don't allow any aspect changes on particular feeds. With some, like my Panny, the RG6 Coax input doesn't allow aspect changes on HD broadcasts, Changing the input to say Component and that same HD feed now allows aspect changes.


To further complicate things, how many different aspect ratio choices can also be dependent on the source feed. On some feeds I have 6 aspect choices, while on other feeds I have only three aspect choices.


Sounds like you also have an accurate Full mode as well.


----------



## toby10

A few things to check, adding to nickdawgs suggestions:


- use the Component video output from the STB (three cables for video, red-green-blue) NOT the yellow cable

- set video output on STB to Through, not fixed or upconvert. Their new TV will upconvert far better than the SA STB

- check aspect ratio and zoom on the TV

- may need to calibrate the TV on this input to get the best PQ


Cable co's will, rightfully so, push (encourage) their pay services and discourage their free services like QAM. As nickdawg has suggested, QAM is quite limited and quirky so I doubt your folks would like using it anyway. QAM PQ is excellent, same PQ as is offered via the pay SD/Digital/HD feeds from the cable co., assuming you can find your selected ch this week.


----------



## JJkizak

Like I always say engineers spend billions on camera lenses to reduce linearity distortion below 1% and end users blow it clean to hell in 10 seconds.

JJK


----------



## GregF2

I wonder why TW Columbus has more HD channels than us now? We always were similar to them before and they had similar mergers as the Cleveland market in. Very frustrating. Here is TW Columbus HD list and sorry if this has already been posted.


Channel Channel Name


700 HBO HDTV




701 Showtime HD




702 Cinemax HD




703 Starz HD




704 WCMH HD Columbus, OH (NBC)




706 WSYX HD Columbus, Ohio (ABC)




710 WBNS HD Columbus, Ohio (CBS)




714 CNN HD




715 Fox News Channel HD




722 ESPN News HD




728 WTTE HD Columbus, OH (Fox)




734 WOSU HD Columbus, OH (PBS)




740 Travel Channel HD




743 BIO HD




746 WWHO 46 HD Columbus, Ohio (CW)




747 FX HD




748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD




749 LMNHD




750 HD Theater




751 TNT in HD




752 Sports Time Ohio HD




753 FSN Ohio HD




754 Versus HD




757 Big Ten Network HD




758 The Golf Channel HD




759 TBS in HD




760 USA HD




761 National Geographic HD




762 Discovery Channel HD




763 Science Channel HD




764 Animal Planet HD




765 TLC HD




766 A&E HD




767 History HD




768 HGTV HD




769 Food Network HD




770 Disney HD




772 ABC Family HD




774 Palladia HD




775 MGM HD




777 HDNet




778 HDNET Movies




780 Universal HD




785 ESPN-HD




786 ESPN2-HD




795 HD Showcase On Demand




796 Big Ten Network HD On Demand




799 HD Movies On Demand


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15399906
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> Are you pulling my leg on this one? Are you joking? The difference is plain as day. It's wrong. The low quality picture from cable suffers severely from stretching or zooming. Any picture suffers, but the bandwidth starved are the worst. Plus, people look out of shape. Circles look oval, actresses look fat. Not a pretty picture.
> 
> 
> I have two ways to stretch. One is through the TV itself, called "WIDE". This is the most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life. It's also the default setting on the TV out of the box. "WIDE" appears to be a non-linear stretch method, like the one used by networks such as TNT and TBS. You know, when things on the sides appear larger and things in the center are smaller or normal size.
> 
> 
> The other is "stretch" provided by the cable box. This setting is not as bad as "wide" from the TV, but it's not good either. Objects don't look as distorted, but they still don't look right. I prefer OAR. And the nice thing about Navigator is it won't let you permanently stretch the picture. If you push the "#" button on one channel, it goes back to sidebar when you change the channel.
> 
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> I have another question for you? What do you do to letterbox programming, like USA or F/X? Do you leave the picture expanded with the bars on top and bottom
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I think this question has been answered by the others. As I said I understand where you're coming from, that's the way it was on my Sony. Kind of. But this "stectch 2" on my LG makes it hardly noticeable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15402123
> 
> 
> 
> You can still have it connected on RF 4, it may be useful if there's also a VCR connected, since VCRs are not component capable. I have Component RGB and the RF 4 cables connected to my box, along with Digital Audio Coax. and the L/R baseband cables. Everything works fine. The only thing I can think of is a wiring problem. Since you said analog, I assume that area still has analog basic cable channels, and those are open to problems with signal. My TVs used to look terrible in analog, but once a new line was ran from the street to the Splitter, PQ improved drastically.



Just want to touch on a couple of other things, nickdawg didn't mention.


It might be wiring but more then likely I would guess it's signal related. Have TW (or whomever) come out and check his signal all the way out to the box or poll, whatever he has in his area. I needed a signal booster which TW provided at no charge.


He does not need the box for HD local. However for any cable digital channels he will need it. If he only wants locals then TW is feeding him a line of garbage. Elimination of the box and digital service will limit his selections, but if he isn't using them why pay for it?


It sounds like the tech that did the install didn't take a good look at the channels. Try removing the box and go directly into the television. Run the cable search and see what you come up with. If the picture is still bad, have them come out and check the signal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15403184
> 
> 
> I wonder why TW Columbus has more HD channels than us now? We always were similar to them before and they had similar mergers as the Cleveland market in. Very frustrating. Here is TW Columbus HD list and sorry if this has already been posted.




I believe that Columbus has SDV (switched digital video) which allows for more bandwith therefore more HD. If you search around in this thread you will see several examples of other cities that have like 50+ HD channels.


We will be getting SDV someday. The general thinking is that due to the fact TW picked up Adelphia and Comcast both getting all these systems on the same page is an issue. Adelphia never bothered to do it when they bought out the mom and pop cable channels, so in essence you really are dealing with about 7 different cable companies.


----------



## GregF2

I know - what is funny is I lived in Columbus for the last 10 years and then moved to Amherst, OH. In Columbus, we had Adelphia cable, which TW purchased, so they have always had the same issues that TW Cleveland had. It just makes me wonder why they moved so much faster and Cleveland still seems like it is in the stone age.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15403281
> 
> 
> I believe that Columbus has SDV (switched digital video) which allows for more bandwith therefore more HD. If you search around in this thread you will see several examples of other cities that have like 50+ HD channels.
> 
> 
> We will be getting SDV someday. The general thinking is that due to the fact TW picked up Adelphia and Comcast both getting all these systems on the same page is an issue. Adelphia never bothered to do it when they bought out the mom and pop cable channels, so in essence you really are dealing with about 7 different cable companies.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15404253
> 
> 
> I know - what is funny is I lived in Columbus for the last 10 years and then moved to Amherst, OH. In Columbus, we had Adelphia cable, which TW purchased, so they have always had the same issues that TW Cleveland had. It just makes me wonder why they moved so much faster and Cleveland still seems like it is in the stone age.



I already answered that. Not only did TW purchase Adelphia, it also purchased Comcast.


Now I don't know the history of Adelphia and the Columbus area but over here it was really a bunch of cable companies under one name. First they had to get the line ups the same. Now they have one problem I know for certain and another that I'm kind of sure about but not completely.


The first issue that I'm sure about is the Comcast people. They wern't even using the same equipment and I don't think to this day they can use "On Demand" channels. At least the last I heard they couldn't. They are using Motorola boxes and everyone else uses Scientific Atlanta. Now I don't have any idea how big the old Comcast area is but either they got to get new boxes or they will have to figure out a way to make them work with their system.


Next issue that I think is a problem is the majority of ex Adelphia people using DVR's are using SARA software. SARA itself should be able to handle SDV - but it might not. Generally SARA is regarded as inferior software. The old Time Warner people were switched to the Navigtor software from Passport. It could be that they cannot run a system with two different softwares. So why not just change SARA to Navigator? Good question. I don't know the answer but I speculate that they can't do it, or have not figured it out.


I've heard of two cases of SARA being changed to Navigator, one of them came from Cathode Kid, who is a respected and knowledgeable person in this thread. But until I hear more I'm thinking they can't do it.


And the final answer is, this is Cleveland. Larger then Columbus but you have politicians in that area. Hence a better lineup in HD.


And even the lineup you pointed out is pretty pathetic to places like Austin, Texas, and I believe Buffalo, New York has a pretty large lineup. Somewhere in Eastern New York anyway.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15404495
> 
> 
> And even the lineup you pointed out is pretty pathetic to places like Austin, Texas, and I believe Buffalo, New York has a pretty large lineup. Somewhere in Eastern New York anyway.



The TWC Buffalo area system is the former Adelphia system there. It looks like they must have SDV, here's their HD llneup:


------------


702 WGRZ NBC HD

703 WNED PBS HD

704 WIVB CBS HD

706 WUTV FOX HD

707 WKBW ABC HD

708 MyTV Buffalo HD

709 WNLO - CW23 HD

715 HGTV HD

716 Food Network HD

719 Fox Business Network

720 Fox News HD

721 CNN HD

723 TBS in HD

724 TNT HD

725 ESPNU HD

726 ESPN-HD

727 ESPN2 HD

728 ESPN News HD

729 NHL Network HD

730 MSG HD

731 SportsNet NY HD

732 Tennis Channel HD

733 Outdoor Channel HD

734 National Geographic HD

735 Travel Channel HD

736 TLC HD

737 Science Channel HD

738 Discovery Channel HD

739 Animal Planet HD

740 Discovery HD Theater

741 Planet Green HD

742 A&E HD

743 BIO HD

744 History in HD

747 Cartoon Network HD

748 Toon Disney HD

749 ABC Family HD

750 Disney HD

751 Lifetime Movie Network HD

753 MGM HD

757 FX HD

760 Palladia

769 SPEED HD

770 YES HD

771 Versus HD

772 Golf Channel HD

773 NHL Center Ice/MLB Extra Innings HD

774 NBA League Pass HD

780 HBO HD

781 Showtime HD

782 Starz HD

783 Cinemax HD

789 Hallmark Movie Channel HD

790 Universal HD

791 HD Net

792 HDNET Movies

795 Adult On Demand - HD

797 HD Movies On Demand

798 HD Pay Per View Events

799 Free HD On Demand


----------



## nickdawg

I saw an item on the news crawl of 19 Action News at 5 saying some viewers in Wadsworth and Conneaut might be losing CBS and My Network TV programming in the coming days due to a dispute with the cable provider.


Ahh, how lucky they are!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15407663
> 
> 
> I saw an item on the news crawl of 19 Action News at 5 saying some viewers in Wadsworth and Conneaut might be losing CBS and My Network TV programming in the coming days due to a dispute with the cable provider.
> 
> 
> Ahh, how lucky they are!!



When TW first took over 2 years ago I saw a blip saying that FOX HD may not return in the Plain Dealer. Of course that didn't happen, and I don't know if it's still around but the blog on the Ohio Media said don't pay any mind to it. Doesn't mean anything. They have to notify the public by law, just in case it doesn't work out.


----------



## ErieMarty

do you(or anyone) think we will ever think we will see a HD lineup like that in NE Ohio...


If we did I would go out and buy another HD TV....


----------



## Smarty-pants

yep, 2012


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15408293
> 
> 
> do you(or anyone) think we will ever think we will see a HD lineup like that in NE Ohio...



Yes, it's called DirecTV


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15408315
> 
> 
> yep, 2012



WOW..that soon....lol


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15408340
> 
> 
> Yes, it's called DirecTV



My Problem is I am from Erie Pa..but get the same TW Channels that you do in NE Ohio...and Direct doesn't carry ANY of the Erie local Channel..Standard or in HD..while Dish just carries Standard..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15408293
> 
> 
> do you(or anyone) think we will ever think we will see a HD lineup like that in NE Ohio...
> 
> 
> If we did I would go out and buy another HD TV....



It will happen, but it's not going to be this year. Consider the Columbus line up. That's pretty sparse compared to Buffalo.


To the best of my knowledge only 4, maybe 5 cities have that type of line up. So what I'm trying to say as politely as I can, TWNEO customers are probably on the bottom of the toting poll. I stated all the reasons previously.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15408340
> 
> 
> Yes, it's called DirecTV



Yep, this is true!


----------



## ErieMarty

I would take 1/2 of that right now...


I called TW on Sunday about a problem I was having on my Regular TV and I asked about anything on new HD channels being added...I said if you look at Buffalo or even Dayton ..they have 20 or 30 more HD channels then us...he was suprised by that..but said..each area is run separate...and does what is best for them....he said he heard about new channels coming after the first of the year..but didn't know when or which channels they might be


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15408519
> 
> 
> I would take 1/2 of that right now...
> 
> 
> I called TW on Sunday about a problem I was having on my Regular TV and I asked about anything on new HD channels being added...I said if you look at Buffalo or even Dayton ..they have 20 or 30 more HD channels then us...he was suprised by that..but said..each area is run separate...and does what is best for them....he said he heard about new channels coming after the first of the year..but didn't know when or which channels they might be



Marty: They also mailed out something to people saying SDV is going to start on October 20, 2008. We're past that.


I really wouldn't be surprised if they throw us a bone. But don't expect a lot of meat on it.










And never forget hooks #1 rule: never believe anything a CSR from TW tells you.


Did you know that they actually try to get you off the phone asap? That's not their fault, but they get timed on their calls so they give you a default answer. If you would have called in September they would have said November.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15408112
> 
> 
> When TW first took over 2 years ago I saw a blip saying that FOX HD may not return in the Plain Dealer. Of course that didn't happen, and I don't know if it's still around but the blog on the Ohio Media said don't pay any mind to it. Doesn't mean anything. They have to notify the public by law, just in case it doesn't work out.



Only time they talk about it on air is when it is serious. According to twcneo.com, WKYC and WBNX are also "up for contract" soon, yet neither one has said anything on the news about it. I think this cable system in question may actually lose WOIO/WUAB. Although, it's really not much of a loss. No more 19 Inaction Nudes and no more sh*tty CBS primetime programming, assassinated with snipes!!
































> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15408373
> 
> 
> It will happen, but it's not going to be this year. Consider the Columbus line up. That's pretty sparse compared to Buffalo.
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge only 4, maybe 5 cities have that type of line up. So what I'm trying to say as politely as I can, TWNEO customers are probably on the bottom of the toting poll. I stated all the reasons previously.



The shopping tier is already passed in SDV. If you tune to those channels in diagnostic mode, the channel name has "SDV" in it and it even says about the channel "(DVR SDB)". There's also several test channels up in the 800s of the sports tier, that must be up next. Plus, they're probably working behind the scenes in other areas to get SDV and Navigator up and running. I remember seeing a February listed here as new channels coming. Sounds reasonable, since that's how they announced the March change last year. And it came in March, only two weeks late!!






































Remember, this is not sh*tty backwoods Adelphia Cable anymore. This is Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio. This is millions of customers. This is a big ass market with AT&T's Advanced TV as a direct competitor as well as both sats. We're more important than you think. I remember the channel change and those additional channels being called as "bullsh*t". I remember calling "bullsh*t" on deploying SDV. All we can do is wait and see. I'm gonna be going to TWC in the coming days to swap that box, I'll ask about HD and see what I get.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15408617
> 
> 
> Marty: They also mailed out something to people saying SDV is going to start on October 20, 2008. We're past that.
> 
> 
> I really wouldn't be surprised if they throw us a bone. But don't expect a lot of meat on it.



I don't care about getting the 50+ channel Texas/South Carolina lineups. I'd be happy with a Dayton style lineup that contains CNN, USA, F/X and SCIFI. I was a bunch of a crap on that list I wouldn't even watch in "Ultra Super Duper Special 3D HDTV".














And I don't care where they add the new channels, even if it is just on the system that already has Navigator and SDV deployed. That's cool with me!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15408724
> 
> 
> Only time they talk about it on air is when it is serious. According to twcneo.com, WKYC and WBNX are also "up for contract" soon, yet neither one has said anything on the news about it. I think this cable system in question may actually lose WOIO/WUAB. Although, it's really not much of a loss. No more 19 Inaction Nudes and no more sh*tty CBS primetime programming, assassinated with snipes!!



Say want you want about channel 19, I record more CBS shows then anything else.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15408724
> 
> 
> The shopping tier is already passed in SDV. If you tune to those channels in diagnostic mode, the channel name has "SDV" in it and it even says about the channel "(DVR SDB)". There's also several test channels up in the 800s of the sports tier, that must be up next. Plus, they're probably working behind the scenes in other areas to get SDV and Navigator up and running. I remember seeing a February listed here as new channels coming. Sounds reasonable, since that's how they announced the March change last year. And it came in March, only two weeks late!!



There must be something wrong with your memory.







If you're referring to the lineup change that did not happen everywhere for everybody. For some of us it took a while. My contact it head end said they were working on it. Funny how you don't mention the letters for October 20th. Does that skip your mind?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15408724
> 
> 
> Remember, this is not sh*tty backwoods Adelphia Cable anymore. This is Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio. This is millions of customers. This is a big ass market with AT&T's Advanced TV as a direct competitor as well as both sats. We're more important than you think. I remember the channel change and those additional channels being called as "bullsh*t". I remember calling "bullsh*t" on deploying SDV. All we can do is wait and see. I'm gonna be going to TWC in the coming days to swap that box, I'll ask about HD and see what I get.



Heh Heh. And you will swallow it hook, line and sinker! Here's the rub nickdawg. It's not the cable company, it's the area we live in that's a "backwoods" area. Trust me when I tell you that most of the nation looks down on Cleveland in general. That's not to say you and I live in bad neighborhoods or even in Cleveland but the rep still comes with the territory.


I don't understand what you mean about the shopping channels. If they are in SDV, why do I still get them on my TiVo? If the testing is finish, why isn't it active? Probably because it's only in *your* area.


Inundated, do you see anything about shopping channels and SDV on your SA 8000?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15408853
> 
> 
> Say want you want about channel 19, I record more CBS shows then anything else.



I like the Monday comedies, CSI:NY/Miami and Ghost Whisperer. I'd like them even better through WKBN!!







































> Quote:
> There must be something wrong with your memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're referring to the lineup change that did not happen everywhere for everybody. For some of us it took a while. My contact it head end said they were working on it. Funny how you don't mention the letters for October 20th. Does that skip your mind?



My box said SDV was enabled the week of October 20. Even though channels were not passed yet, it was active that week, as promised. As for the lineup change, I assume this will happen the same way. First the Canton/South area gets it, then Akron, then northern parts and Cleveland and its suburbs.



> Quote:
> I don't understand what you mean about the shopping channels. If they are in SDV, why do I still get them on my TiVo? If the testing is finish, why isn't it active? Probably because it's only in *your* area.
> 
> 
> Inundated, do you see anything about shopping channels and SDV on your SA 8000?



That's because your headend is still sending them through in regular digital. It's not one blanket system, so channels can be non-SDV or even not digital in one area. but different elsewhere.


----------



## nickdawg


















































































































































> Quote:
> NBC Weather Plus Ends It's Broadcast
> 
> 
> As we mentioned in early fall, NBC is pulling the curtain down on NBC Weather Plus this week as the channel shuts down. However, there is some good news for Weather Plus trekkies in that WKYC will continue a local version of the channel featuring a local "L" bar for your area temperatures and forecast conditions. However, this service will now be mainly seen on just our digital subchannel 3.2 instead of on your local cable company channels which will not carry the channel after this week. This feed will also be available on wkyc.com on the main weather page.



Great. Bandwidth will still be ROBBED from the HD main channel so the four people who get WKYC OTA can have a weather channel. But it won't be on cable. WHY THE F**K NOT!!!! WOIO's piece of **** channel is on cable, why not WKYC? What a f**king waste of bandwidth to have something for OTA only.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15404495
> 
> 
> The first issue that I'm sure about is the Comcast people. They wern't even using the same equipment and I don't think to this day they can use "On Demand" channels. At least the last I heard they couldn't. They are using Motorola boxes and everyone else uses Scientific Atlanta. Now I don't have any idea how big the old Comcast area is but either they got to get new boxes or they will have to figure out a way to make them work with their system.



My parents are in Mentor. Ex-Comcast now TWC area. They have always had a Scientific Atlanta box (just went from SD->HD in the last few days) since they opted to go to "Digital Cable" when switching to TWC. They have On-Demand channels. The only difference I can see is the logical channel numbering on their system.


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## nickdawg

So who uses the Motorola boxes? The other day, I saw a TWC commercial and I swear I was a Motorola STB by a TV in the ad. That got me thinking(and scared). What if they start using Motorola boxes here?












































































































The horror!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!






































Luckily, I think the different boxes are part of the problem with the network. Hopefully, the Motorola people will be assimilated into a Scientific Atlanta system. I like the Scientific Atlanta boxes better.










The next thing that needs to go are the Pioneer boxes. The only thing the BD-V1000s/BD-V3500HDs are good for is restoring reefs for undersea life. Plus they'd be swimming with the fishes, where they belong!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/15409832
> 
> 
> My parents are in Mentor. Ex-Comcast now TWC area. *They have always had a Scientific Atlanta box (just went from SD->HD in the last few days) since they opted to go to "Digital Cable" when switching to TWC.* They have On-Demand channels. The only difference I can see is the logical channel numbering on their system.



Well, that would make sense. TW is not going to hand out Moto boxes. My point is that there are still a great deal of people with Moto boxes out there.


Now if they got digital cable when it was Comcast and they got an SA box, you'd have a point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15409929
> 
> 
> So who uses the Motorola boxes? The other day, I saw a TWC commercial and I swear I was a Motorola STB by a TV in the ad. That got me thinking(and scared). What if they start using Motorola boxes here?
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> The next thing that needs to go are the Pioneer boxes. The only thing the BD-V1000s/BD-V3500HDs are good for is restoring reefs for undersea life. Plus they'd be swimming with the fishes, where they belong!



Oh, that will be easy. "You will be assimilated."










And I'm going to take this Ford transmission and put it on this Chevy.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15409674
> 
> 
> Great. Bandwidth will still be ROBBED from the HD main channel so the four people who get WKYC OTA can have a weather channel. But it won't be on cable. WHY THE F**K NOT!!!! WOIO's piece of **** channel is on cable, why not WKYC? What a f**king waste of bandwidth to have something for OTA only.



Did you really expect it to go away? Really? The question was never "will the WX+ subchannel go away," the question was "what will it be replaced with?"


A good number of stations are recycling the WX+ equipment and doing local weather. Some are doing other things like This TV or Mexicanal.


That said, it being dropped from cable is stupid. Wonder why that's happening.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15410102
> 
> 
> Did you really expect it to go away? Really? The question was never "will the WX+ subchannel go away," the question was "what will it be replaced with?"
> 
> 
> A good number of stations are recycling the WX+ equipment and doing local weather. Some are doing other things like *This TV or Mexicanal.**
> 
> 
> That said, it being dropped from cable is stupid. Wonder why that's happening.
> 
> 
> - Trip



It was a question. "What will happen to 3-2?" One of the possibilities was "go away". What's the point of keeping the channel running without a national feed on it? That makes it as bad as 19-2. Or even better, why not run paid programs on it all day!!!










































The bottom line is: *SUBCHANNELS ARE EVIL*. They should not be allowed on *ANY* affiliate of the five major networks(NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX). CBS is smart in not allowing its O&O stations to have any subchannels. The only stations in Cleveland that _should_ be eligible to have subchannels are: 61, 67, 17 and the to-be-launched 23. It is absolutely wrong that CBS and NBC degrade their HD picture.


Applause to WEWS, WBNX and WJW for resisting the urge to follow the sheep and ruin their HD signals.


*I guess we dodged a bullet there. The only thing *MORE* useless than a local weather channel would be those services you listed.


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## Trip in VA

I'm anxiously waiting for This TV to launch in my area. It looks like a great service, I can't wait.


- Trip


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## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15410222
> 
> 
> I'm anxiously waiting for This TV to launch in my area. It looks like a great service, I can't wait.
> 
> 
> - Trip



As long as it is attached to 23, 61 or 67. OK.


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## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15410192
> 
> 
> It was a question. "What will happen to 3-2?" One of the possibilities was "go away". What's the point of keeping the channel running without a national feed on it? That makes it as bad as 19-2. Or even better, why not run paid programs on it all day!!!
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> The bottom line is: *SUBCHANNELS ARE EVIL*. They should not be allowed on *ANY* affiliate of the five major networks(NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX). CBS is smart in not allowing its O&O stations to have any subchannels. The only stations in Cleveland that _should_ be eligible to have subchannels are: 61, 67, 17 and the to-be-launched 23. It is absolutely wrong that CBS and NBC degrade their HD picture.
> 
> 
> Applause to WEWS, WBNX and WJW for resisting the urge to follow the sheep and ruin their HD signals.
> 
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> *I guess we dodged a bullet there. The only thing *MORE* useless than a local weather channel would be those services you listed.



Wow. I'm sorry, but that is totally ass-backwards thinking. How much bandwidth do you really think is necessary to give a good HD picture? And how much bandwidth do you think the 480i subchannels use? You get roughly ~18mbps to work with on the channel as a whole. decent quality SD channels on cable use around 2mbps. 2mbps is peanuts for a 720p or 1080i signal especially when it's already using upwards of 15mbps. I dare you to actually say you can SEE a difference between say a 1080i picture at 15mbps and 18mbps.


Fact is subchannels are one of the few added features of this digital transition that actually make it worthwhile for consumers. Especially for those who simulcast REAL content on those subchannels. Good example is WFMJ. They run WBCB on 21-2 which otherwise is only available on cable and was never broadcasted OTA in analog. And WKBN with it's high power transmitter runs WYFX as a subchannel in SD which otherwise is hard to get on analog anywhere outside of youngstown due to it's LP status.


But I do agree that stuff like these weather subchannels are getting really out of hand. Nearly every broadcaster has them and more often than not there are more than one of them running in a single market.


But subchannels are far from 'useless' and I dare you to give me an honest comparison in a true blind test that you can tell the difference in an HD picture with a few extra mbits added on to an already high bandwidth signal.


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## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15410102
> 
> 
> Did you really expect it to go away? Really? The question was never "will the WX+ subchannel go away," the question was "what will it be replaced with?"
> 
> 
> A good number of stations are recycling the WX+ equipment and doing local weather. Some are doing other things like This TV or Mexicanal.
> 
> 
> That said, it being dropped from cable is stupid. Wonder why that's happening.
> 
> 
> - Trip



the original quote came from the blog on WKYC's website, but the required legal notice that TW posted end of November ( required 30 days notice)

just notes that 'WKYC Weather Plus is ceasing operations on 12/31/08.'


Dont know if the blogger for the station has been told something different or was just assuming, but heck if they can keep the screen up for the music channel on 43 long after it went dark, seems strange they would pull it that quickly. Maybe Gannett should have figured out what they wanted to do before now. ( not like they didn't know it was happening)


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## nickdawg

You guys here need to get out more. There's tons of discussion in the main HDTV forum about picture quality and bandwidth. Frame rates and bandwidth were criticisms of the Olympics this year on NBC(which looked horrible at times). Wonder how it would have looked without WX+ eating bandwidth?


Serious videophiles can tell the difference. Even the average viewer can see macroblocking on fast action. And it only gets WORSE on 1080i channels and when more subs are added. Compare WOIO CBS before and after 19-2. After, it looks horrible. I've seen blurriness and breakup on shows like CSI: Miami. Sure, cable uses less bandwidth, but they only pass what the station gives them. If the station puts out crap, we get crap. Crap in---Crap out!!


As far as WFMJ, that is the perfect example of a useless channel. Who needs the CW in SDTV, especially if it is taking away from the NBC station. Get a stronger antenna and you can have WBNX, in HDTV. Or get cable. TWC has a special FOX HD channel only available on cable from WYFX. Plus, I think WUAB and WBNX are still carried on other cable systems from the days when Y-Town didn't even have a FOX station. I really wish I could see 33. I'd love to see the hot mess caused by having ABC, MNTV and a weather sub. Even though ABC is 720p, I highly doubt that WYTV looks as good as subchannel free WEWS.


Someone here once said this DTV transition is not meant as a "technology upgrade". But this is exactly what it is---at the expense of the HDTV viewers. After the transition, OTA viewers won't have the _same_ channels they had before, there will be more. Thanks to the unnecessary use of subchannels.


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## Vchat20

Well here is the way I am seeing it and it's pretty clear-cut for what it's worth:


The DTV transition wasn't meant to please the videophile types. The reason for any HDTV use has been for future proofing. The videophile types obviously have the money for other subscription services like cable and satellite.


OTA (both analog since the VERY early days and digital alike) has, since its inception, been a reliance on the frugal types and those who otherwise can't afford subscription tv services. This whole govt coupon/converter box mess is a prime example of the case.


Yes, you get macroblocking and quality loss in fast action scenes and all that stuff, but you are getting it for FREE. HD service for FREE. DirecTV certainly won't give you that. Time Warner gives it but still requires paying for digital service.


My advice? Quit complaining. The subchannel feature of DTV is a much welcome feature for people wanting the CONTENT and not uber blueray-esque quality. And FWIW, it has quite a bit of potential.


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## nickdawg

It's not FREE for me!! Same with Dish or Direct. You still gotta pay for cable to get even the local channels without an antenna. If I'm paying for it, I want it as good as possible. I could give a rat's ass about antenna viewers. They're well aware of what they're getting. Antenna viewers know that if they want more TV options, there's cable and satellite. If they want CONTENT, PAY FOR IT!!! I have to pay for it. And it pisses me off to have to pay for CRAP, that others get for free---and the reason it's crap is _they_ want "choice". I don't want "This TV", "Me TV", "My Network TV", Mexicrap, etc. I want to watch a football game on CBS without macroblocking. I want to enjoy the Olympics without the analog channel looking better than the HD channel.


To all the "new content" providers out there, both current and future, I hope they ALL go the way of The Tube. :evilsmiley:


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## Vchat20

How is it not free for you? I don't recall any OTA broadcasters going subscription model on us.










If you are referring to the cost of getting better antennas or stuff like that, that is a one time cost and considered more customer equipment than anything else. I'm talking about an actual RECURRING SUBSCRIPTION cost here. OTA is FREE, plain and simple.


In fact, many stations outside of big budget types like WKYC are barely breaking even with the need to upgrade their equipment and whatnot and being able to add on subchannels to include more advertising is actually a PLUS for them.


In my not so humble opinion, you are barking up the wrong tree. In fact, you aren't even in the right park at this rate. I'm sure when analog was the only thing available OTA, you were really complaining about the quality on that one, huh?


Fact is, compared to cable and satellite offerings, you are getting GREAT quality with OTA digital even with the subchannels. Don't expect blueray quality because you certainly aren't going to get it no matter how hard you try.


Anyways, I'm done on the subject. It's really quite simple in that OTA is FREE (no matter how hard you try to contest it) while cable and sat are free. And the quality you get now with OTA digital is AMAZING to boot compared to the old days. The old adage applies: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.


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## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15409674
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> Great. Bandwidth will still be ROBBED from the HD main channel so the four people who get WKYC OTA can have a weather channel. But it won't be on cable. WHY THE F**K NOT!!!! WOIO's piece of **** channel is on cable, why not WKYC? What a f**king waste of bandwidth to have something for OTA only.



I'm with ya brother, I'm with ya.


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## TheBlackKnight

From the PBS45/49...errr...Western Reserve PBS member magazine The Alternative:


"Our application to the FCC for maximization of the WNEO signal has been approved. This will allow us to increase our Salem transmitter power from 44 kW to 500 kW. The power increase is set to take place on Feb. 18, 2009, but we have filed for a waiver to allow us to increase by Jan. 5."


Also:


"Channels 45.1 and 49.1 are now the primary program stream. They are high definition channels that air the same program lineup as the current analog channel. For the time being, Channels 45.2 and 49.2 will air a standard definition version of the program schedule. In the future, these channels and an additional channel, 45.3, will offer special-interest programming, the content of which is yet to be determined."


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15410313
> 
> 
> Wow. I'm sorry, but that is totally ass-backwards thinking.









































Yep, it's like living in the Bizzarro world.


When I was a kid the early 60's, Bizarro world was in Superman and Action comics. They had Bizzaro Lois, Bizarro Superman etc. and I guess what you would call a mission statement: Us hate beauty. Us love ugliness. Is big crime to do something correct in Bizarro world.


I believe this is where nickdawg lives. He rants on Christmas. I've never seen any quality problems from channels with subchannels and I believe you would have to be a videophile to see them, if in fact they exist. I'm still looking for the black line he sees on WEWS, I watched the Thanksgiving show for Boston Legal last night and I didn't see anything. I walked up to the set to look at it. Nothing. And he's so tight he squeaks.


Then there are his views on DVR's, his expectations and rationalizing of Tim Warner. All rather unique from where I stand (or sit as the case may be).


Having said all that this forum is so much fun with him in it. I just love to watch him go off, you never know what he's going to gripe about next!


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## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15411924
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> When I was a kid the early 60's, Bizarro world was in Superman and Action comics. They had Bizzaro Lois, Bizarro Superman etc. and I guess what you would call a mission statement: Us hate beauty. Us love ugliness. Is big crime to do something correct in Bizarro world.
> 
> 
> I believe this is where nickdawg lives. He rants on Christmas. I've never seen any quality problems from channels with subchannels and I believe you would have to be a videophile to see them, if in fact they exist. I'm still looking for the black line he sees on WEWS, I watched the Thanksgiving show for Boston Legal last night and I didn't see anything. I walked up to the set to look at it. Nothing. And he's so tight he squeaks.
> 
> 
> Then there are his views on DVR's, his expectations and rationalizing of Tim Warner. All rather unique from where I stand (or sit as the case may be).
> 
> 
> Having said all that this forum is so much fun with him in it. I just love to watch him go off, you never know what he's going to gripe about next!



Hook, I believe a lot has to do with the differences in quality and design from TV to TV. Some sets handle the processing better (and faster) than others. When I first got my Panny LCD, now going on 3-1/2 years ago, I experimented with the various pass-through, conversion and fixed modes from my SA8300 and, for my set-up, I found leaving it fixed at 720P gave the most consistent and superior results with SD programming. I can zoom most letterbox SD shows and still have a very good quality picture - not as good as HD, but definately better than watching a postage stamp surrounded by black!


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15412392
> 
> 
> Hook, I believe a lot has to do with the differences in quality and design from TV to TV. Some sets handle the processing better (and faster) than others. When I first got my Panny LCD, now going on 3-1/2 years ago, I experimented with the various pass-through, conversion and fixed modes from my SA8300 and, for my set-up, I found leaving it fixed at 720P gave the most consistent and superior results with SD programming. I can zoom most letterbox SD shows and still have a very good quality picture - not as good as HD, but definately better than watching a postage stamp surrounded by black!



I totally understand that. My LG is much better in so many ways then my Sony Wega.


My old Sony couldn't get the full logo bug in the window. On WJW it was FO and part of the X and you could see the 8 but only 1/2 of the period and nothing else.


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## Inundated

hookbill, I'll go up and check on the SA8000 and the shopping channels, presumably if I can remember how to kick the SA8000 into diagnostic mode again.










I'm somewhere in the middle in this whole subchannel/bandwidth thing.


I have noticed, even on my little 32" LCD HD set, that fast motion on NBC's Sunday Night Football would induce macroblocking. I don't know if that's because 3.2 has been pulling down bandwidth for Weather Plus or if there are other issues (older encoding equipment, etc.)...for example, at least early on, WKYC's encoder would "fuzz out" after any particularly fast graphics in HD on SNF.


I've also seen macroblocking on WOIO since they put up "WeatherNow" on 19.2...but not as severe.


As far as content goes, I would not at all mind seeing Retro TV Network show up on one of the local subchannels, but I'd prefer it to be 43.2 - I don't watch MyNetwork TV at all, and I wouldn't care how the HD looks on 43.1.


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## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15410514
> 
> 
> the original quote came from the blog on WKYC's website, but the required legal notice that TW posted end of November ( required 30 days notice)
> 
> just notes that 'WKYC Weather Plus is ceasing operations on 12/31/08.'
> 
> 
> Dont know if the blogger for the station has been told something different or was just assuming



You're both right.










"WKYC Weather Plus" is going away 12/31/08, because NBC Weather Plus is going away. The TWC system is dumping it at that point.


The blog says WKYC will attempt to recreate a new weather channel - they may even call it "Weather Plus" for continuity, and even use the local graphics being used now. But it won't be the same channel as exists until tomorrow, since the underlying national content is going away.


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## Bryan 93 ?

The audio/video dropouts on WOIO-HD (through Directv) has been atrocious lately. Trying to watch the Browns game these past few weeks a dropout occurs every 90 seconds or so. Very annoying. I even get dropouts watching the daily news. I have zero problems with any other HD channel, local or not.


It's to the point now where I don't even turn on WOIO-HD. Pathetic!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15350428
> 
> 
> Also having breakups on WOIO-HD via D*. I've seen this same problem on other CBS games earlier in the season.
> 
> 
> One of the pregame shows called this the "Toilet Bowl"


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## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15412392
> 
> 
> hook, i believe a lot has to do with the differences in quality and design from tv to tv. Some sets handle the processing better (and faster) than others. When i first got my panny lcd, now going on 3-1/2 years ago, i experimented with the various pass-through, conversion and fixed modes from my sa8300 and, for my set-up, i found leaving it fixed at 720p gave the most consistent and superior results with sd programming. I can zoom most letterbox sd shows and still have a very good quality picture - not as good as hd, but definately better than watching a postage stamp surrounded by black!













.........................


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15413388
> 
> 
> You're both right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "WKYC Weather Plus" is going away 12/31/08, because NBC Weather Plus is going away. The TWC system is dumping it at that point.
> 
> 
> The blog says WKYC will attempt to recreate a new weather channel - they may even call it "Weather Plus" for continuity, and even use the local graphics being used now. But it won't be the same channel as exists until tomorrow, since the underlying national content is going away.



If it's a local broadcast isn't the cable company required to carry it?


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## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15411924
> 
> 
> 
> Having said all that this forum is so much fun with him in it. I just love to watch him go off, you never know what he's going to gripe about next!



What's the deal with airline food??


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## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15413342
> 
> 
> hookbill, I'll go up and check on the SA8000 and the shopping channels, presumably if I can remember how to kick the SA8000 into diagnostic mode again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> I'm somewhere in the middle in this whole subchannel/bandwidth thing.
> 
> 
> I have noticed, even on my little 32" LCD HD set, that fast motion on NBC's Sunday Night Football would induce macroblocking. I don't know if that's because 3.2 has been pulling down bandwidth for Weather Plus or if there are other issues (older encoding equipment, etc.)...for example, at least early on, WKYC's encoder would "fuzz out" after any particularly fast graphics in HD on SNF.
> 
> 
> I've also seen macroblocking on WOIO since they put up "WeatherNow" on 19.2...but not as severe.
> 
> 
> As far as content goes, I would not at all mind seeing Retro TV Network show up on one of the local subchannels, but I'd prefer it to be 43.2 - I don't watch MyNetwork TV at all, and I wouldn't care how the HD looks on 43.1.



**APPLAUSE** That was the point. These subchannels should be on SD Only or non-Big Five networks. NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, CW should NOT have any subchannels, especially CBS and FOX with their sports programming and NBC during the Olympics.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15413388
> 
> 
> You're both right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "WKYC Weather Plus" is going away 12/31/08, because NBC Weather Plus is going away. The TWC system is dumping it at that point.
> 
> 
> The blog says WKYC will attempt to recreate a new weather channel - they may even call it "Weather Plus" for continuity, and even use the local graphics being used now. But it won't be the same channel as exists until tomorrow, since the underlying national content is going away.



And that's where the waste is. WKYC is pulling a WOIO. A pointless local only channel. I'll bet the off time from where network programming used to run will be filled with commercials. That's why this thing is still running, the cheap bastards at Gannett know it's a cash cow. An extra channel to run(and sell) commercials on. BRILLIANT!! And we all know how cheap Gannett has been lately.


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## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15415496
> 
> 
> If it's a local broadcast isn't the cable company required to carry it?



Must carry only applies to the main subchannel, and stations can opt out of must-carry in order to obtain "retransmission consent," which can include compensation one way or another, as well as carriage for the subchannels in the agreement.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15416051
> 
> 
> That's why this thing is still running, the cheap bastards at Gannett know it's a cash cow. An extra channel to run(and sell) commercials on. BRILLIANT!! And we all know how cheap Gannett has been lately.



Damn them, wanting to make money like they're a business or something. Clearly they're a charity existing to please nickdawg and have forgotten their way.










- Trip


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## JJkizak

If I look hard enough I can see macro blocking on all channels (OTA) during fast action. On the .2's and .3's I see it all the time. Some peoples eyes can pick up fast action macro blocks better than others. Unfortunately for me when I was 16 I had a problem picking up a baseball which I rarely hit even by mistake. The eye doctor said the only thing that cannot be checked or evaluated is the ability of how fast your eye can focus on a rapidly moving object.

JJK


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15416297
> 
> 
> Must carry only applies to the main subchannel, and stations can opt out of must-carry in order to obtain "retransmission consent," which can include compensation one way or another, as well as carriage for the subchannels in the agreement.



Thanks for the clarification.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15416297
> 
> 
> Damn them, wanting to make money like they're a business or something. Clearly they're a charity existing to please nickdawg and have forgotten their way.
> 
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> - Trip



You are so smart for such a young guy!


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## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15416297
> 
> *Damn them, wanting to make money like they're a business or something*. Clearly they're a charity existing to please nickdawg and have forgotten their way.
> 
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> - Trip



What I mean is: look at the news department. Tim White was let go, along with Lydia Esparra, Obie Shelton and behind the scenes people. The graphics people were fired in favor of a computerised system, making all their stations have the same graphics. 6pm news and all weekend shows are now single-anchor format. How long before other? If you want to see the dismal future of TV news broadcasting, look at Gannett and WKYC. There's even talk, and it's happened in other markets, of using shared video. No more news crews competing to be "first on the scene".


Sadly, you're correct. They are a business. And that's the problem. They're treating it like a business. What ever it takes to make the green. Anyone and anything is expendable. Anything goes in the name of ratings. To hell with integrity, quality and journalism. Flashy, sensationalism is in.


WKYC should change their slogan from "Report the Facts, Respect the Truth" to: "WKYC: Dollar Dollar Bill Y'all"


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## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15416051
> 
> 
> the cheap bastards at Gannett know it's a cash cow. An extra channel to run(and sell) commercials on. BRILLIANT!!



like that "cash cow" over on 43-2?

jeeze, put up tone & bars or a fish tank or a picture of SuperHost already!










( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhost )


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## rlockshin

Just spoke with the Bluegrass top tech. He said that DTV is well aware of the transmission of the channel. Problem is not seen on 19-1;only on 19 being retransmitted by DTV. Issue is in what DTV receives from WOIO.


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## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15418022
> 
> 
> What I mean is: look at the news department. Tim White was let go, along with Lydia Esparra, Obie Shelton and behind the scenes people. The graphics people were fired in favor of a computerised system, making all their stations have the same graphics. 6pm news and all weekend shows are now single-anchor format. How long before other? If you want to see the dismal future of TV news broadcasting, look at Gannett and WKYC. There's even talk, and it's happened in other markets, of using shared video. No more news crews competing to be "first on the scene".
> 
> 
> Sadly, you're correct. They are a business. And that's the problem. They're treating it like a business. What ever it takes to make the green. Anyone and anything is expendable. Anything goes in the name of ratings. To hell with integrity, quality and journalism. Flashy, sensationalism is in.
> 
> 
> WKYC should change their slogan from "Report the Facts, Respect the Truth" to: "WKYC: Dollar Dollar Bill Y'all"



I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I agree with every word Nick just said







.

I havn't watched the local news cosistantly (on any channel) for at least 3-4 years.

It's exactly how Nick says, and it's disgusting.


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## nickdawg

Well, I went to the local TWC office today. What a f'ing mess. The line was out the door. Everything from equipment returns to new equipment and internet problems. And wouldn't you know it, not even one HD digital box in the building. There were plenty of brand new 8300HD boxes, still in the Scientific Atlanta crates, but no non-DVR boxes. Woman at the desk said they will have more tomorrow, so I'll be back. The one nice thing I did observe is someone returning a SA 8000 SDTV DVR(which is an incredible piece of ****), and they gave him a new 8300HD in the crate. So it looks like all new equipment is HD. But really, what would be the point of ordering SD only equipment anymore? More people are going HD, plus they work fine on SDTVs. At least they are doing something right(for once







). Now, all I have to worry about is that I get a new 4250HD box. I'd hope that by now they'd have some new equipment. The last HD box I had was the 3100HD and it was **eh**. But I'd still like one of those new ones, I hope I can ask.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15418976
> 
> 
> Well, I went to the local TWC office today. What a f'ing mess. The line was out the door. Everything from equipment returns to new equipment and internet problems. And wouldn't you know it, not even one HD digital box in the building. There were plenty of brand new 8300HD boxes, still in the Scientific Atlanta crates, but no non-DVR boxes. Woman at the desk said they will have more tomorrow, so I'll be back. The one nice thing I did observe is someone returning a SA 8000 SDTV DVR(which is an incredible piece of ****), and they gave him a new 8300HD in the crate. So it looks like all new equipment is HD. But really, what would be the point of ordering SD only equipment anymore? More people are going HD, plus they work fine on SDTVs. At least they are doing something right(for once
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Now, all I have to worry about is that I get a new 4250HD box. I'd hope that by now they'd have some new equipment. The last HD box I had was the 3100HD and it was **eh**. But I'd still like one of those new ones, I hope I can ask.



I heard that spiel about 5 months ago too. An email to Mr. Fry had a non-DVR HD box sitting on my doorstep the next day...










On an unrelated note...does anyone notice the crawls on some of the cable channels touting us to call TW and "Demand" that they come back. The crawls are running on Nick, Noggin, MTV, Spike, Comedy, TV Land and I think a couple more. I am not too worried, I'm sure this is just end of the year negotations that we already heard from TWC's website.


----------



## paule123

I saw the crawl running on a D* channel (I don't remember which) and I don't think D* had anything to do with it. The crawl was really sh!tty looking too, made that channel look like unprofessional fools. I remember better looking crawls from an old Atari 2600.


As far as the DVR/non-DVR thing with TW you would think they would hand out DVR boxes to everybody and provision them so no DVR functions were allowed until they activated those functions. And they could do an ad campaign offering to "upgrade" people for only $5 that already had the DVR box by simply hitting the box from master control.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/15418262
> 
> 
> like that "cash cow" over on 43-2?
> 
> jeeze, put up tone & bars or a fish tank or a picture of SuperHost already!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superhost )



For as much as I despised this guy, I miss that type of programming only local Indys could show.... I'll say the same for Big Chuck & the lil guy, & what's that host on Night Owl Theater on WBNS...







... the Ghoul, the list goes on!


Thanks to all who replied on the Cable box question, Ive passed the reading on to the interested parties. You don't spend over a grand on a set, 50+ on a monthly bill & settle for a picture like that... I'm sorry!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15407663
> 
> 
> I saw an item on the news crawl of 19 Action News at 5 saying some viewers in Wadsworth and Conneaut might be losing CBS and My Network TV programming in the coming days due to a dispute with the cable provider.
> 
> 
> Ahh, how lucky they are!!




An antenna should be able to pull 35 from Erie from Conneaut... only like 20 miles to the transmitter... & difficult 20 miles.


Noticed WJET is featuring WICU (NBC) on their sub... interesting, what a waste of bandwith, now don't that make your blood boil!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15410192
> 
> 
> It was a question. "What will happen to 3-2?" One of the possibilities was "go away". What's the point of keeping the channel running without a national feed on it? That makes it as bad as 19-2. Or even better, why not run paid programs on it all day!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom line is: *SUBCHANNELS ARE EVIL*. They should not be allowed on *ANY* affiliate of the five major networks(NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX). CBS is smart in not allowing its O&O stations to have any subchannels. The only stations in Cleveland that _should_ be eligible to have subchannels are: 61, 67, 17 and the to-be-launched 23. It is absolutely wrong that CBS and NBC degrade their HD picture.
> 
> 
> Applause to WEWS, WBNX and WJW for resisting the urge to follow the sheep and ruin their HD signals.
> 
> 
> *I guess we dodged a bullet there. The only thing *MORE* useless than a local weather channel would be those services you listed.



67 & 17??, now comon a few of us in the cleveland market just can't get those. I'm getting a very clear picture on 3 with the suyb, & notice a slight degrade on 19, but as mentioned this is head & shoulders over analog.


I guess I'm just too old school (& cheap) to get cable, & of course I'm likely the only one here without a cell too.










Agreed though that is a waste on 43, I've been looking at other cities use of subs, & there are a lot better choices out there.... the Cleveland market sux... but most of you have alternate choices even for OTA.... me I'm in an RF hole for a secondary market, & now I've lost 10 CFPL Analog too.... I'll also likely be losing 23, & not gaining really anything but a few weather subs in the conversion.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15410313
> 
> 
> Wow. I'm sorry, but that is totally ass-backwards thinking. How much bandwidth do you really think is necessary to give a good HD picture? And how much bandwidth do you think the 480i subchannels use? You get roughly ~18mbps to work with on the channel as a whole. decent quality SD channels on cable use around 2mbps. 2mbps is peanuts for a 720p or 1080i signal especially when it's already using upwards of 15mbps. I dare you to actually say you can SEE a difference between say a 1080i picture at 15mbps and 18mbps.
> 
> 
> Fact is subchannels are one of the few added features of this digital transition that actually make it worthwhile for consumers. Especially for those who simulcast REAL content on those subchannels. Good example is WFMJ. They run WBCB on 21-2 which otherwise is only available on cable and was never broadcasted OTA in analog. And WKBN with it's high power transmitter runs WYFX as a subchannel in SD which otherwise is hard to get on analog anywhere outside of youngstown due to it's LP status.
> 
> 
> But I do agree that stuff like these weather subchannels are getting really out of hand. Nearly every broadcaster has them and more often than not there are more than one of them running in a single market.
> 
> 
> But subchannels are far from 'useless' and I dare you to give me an honest comparison in a true blind test that you can tell the difference in an HD picture with a few extra mbits added on to an already high bandwidth signal.



Interesting, I wish I could get the Y market up here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15420335
> 
> 
> I heard that spiel about 5 months ago too. An email to Mr. Fry had a non-DVR HD box sitting on my doorstep the next day...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On an unrelated note...does anyone notice the crawls on some of the cable channels touting us to call TW and "Demand" that they come back. The crawls are running on Nick, Noggin, MTV, Spike, Comedy, TV Land and I think a couple more. I am not too worried, I'm sure this is just end of the year negotations that we already heard from TWC's website.



Thanks, I'll have to remember the "Fry Card" that was talked about here awhile back.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15410313
> 
> 
> I dare you to actually say you can SEE a difference between say a 1080i picture at 15mbps and 18mbps.



It's actually pretty obvious if you have a 50"+ 1080p display and are watching football with fast motion.


Subchannels are evil.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15420525
> 
> 
> 67 & 17??, now comon a few of us in the cleveland market just can't get those. I'm getting a very clear picture on 3 with the suyb, & notice a slight degrade on 19, but as mentioned this is head & shoulders over analog.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm just too old school (& cheap) to get cable, & of course I'm likely the only one here without a cell too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed though that is a waste on 43, I've been looking at other cities use of subs, & there are a lot better choices out there.... the Cleveland market sux... but most of you have alternate choices even for OTA.... me I'm in an RF hole for a secondary market, & now I've lost 10 CFPL Analog too.... I'll also likely be losing 23, & not gaining really anything but a few weather subs in the conversion.



Funny. Down here in Akron, 23 comes in perfect. It even has caused interference on analog channel 74 on cable(which is where 23 OTA shows up on a TV set to CABLE). I can even get it without an antenna connected sometimes. And with rabbit ears, 67 looks pretty good too, even when 3,5 and 8 look like crap or don't even come in at all.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15418976
> 
> 
> Well, I went to the local TWC office today. What a f'ing mess. The line was out the door.



Given the fact that it's only a few days after Christmas (lots of new HDTVs), did you expect otherwise? If so, you're crazier than I thought!










When in doubt, always plan your visits to TWC offices late Sunday afternoons when the weather is horrible and nothing "good" (like the SuperBowl) is scheduled within the next two months. Following these guidelines *might* get you a somewhat pleasant visit.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15420764
> 
> 
> Given the fact that it's only a few days after Christmas (lots of new HDTVs), did you expect otherwise? If so, you're crazier than I thought!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When in doubt, always plan your visits to TWC offices late Sunday afternoons when the weather is horrible and nothing "good" (like the SuperBowl) is scheduled within the next two months. Following these guidelines *might* get you a somewhat pleasant visit.



Yeah, I'm a bit crazy.







Along with the crowd, I was planning that they would be overstocked because of all the new HDTVs over Christmas.







But the good news is she said they will have boxes tomorrow afternoon. Can you believe it, they're open till 7 on New Years Eve! If that doesn't work, I'll have to try a "down time". I know I've been there before and it's empty at times. Other times, it's out the door.




And I've seen the crawls on MTV2, ruining this episode of Jackass. The _REAL_ "Jackasses" are the networks. But it makes me wonder, what's up with this? Usually, the legal notices are on TWC's website, but you don't see anything about it on the air. It looks like a crappy scrolling title inserted in Windows Movie Maker.










EDIT: It's also on during "Three's Company". If that crawl covers _any_ shots of Suzanne Sommer's butt or boobs, I'm gonna call that number and tell them to shove their channel!!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15420811
> 
> 
> And I've seen the crawls on MTV2, ruining this episode of Jackass. The _REAL_ "Jackasses" are the networks. But it makes me wonder, what's up with this? Usually, the legal notices are on TWC's website, but you don't see anything about it on the air. It looks like a crappy scrolling title inserted in Windows Movie Maker.



That's something you really should be taking up with Viacom. They've been pulling this stuff constantly and last time it was with Dish. They want paid more and the sat/cable companies don't want to comply with the exorbitant rates so they feud. They are also the ones inserting the crawls as customers with other providers are seeing them as well.


----------



## ErieMarty

ML Baseball Network is now up and running on channel 326...just running ads about their new channel...


I didn't see it on the HD Channels..


so who says Time Warner doesn't give us end users what we want..lol


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15420525
> 
> 
> ............
> 
> I guess I'm just too old school (& cheap) to get cable, & of course I'm likely the only one here without a cell too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .........................



Why don't you at least get the free "lifeline" cable service? Especially if you are having issues getting the locals OTA.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15420764
> 
> 
> Given the fact that it's only a few days after Christmas (lots of new HDTVs), did you expect otherwise? If so, you're crazier than I thought!



The office in Macedonia closes for lunch at 1:00. Get there by 1:55 pm and jump out of your car and head for the door. You are first in line.


That's what I do.










And I'm happy to report that there is new staffing at the Macedonia office. They now only have one person so the issue of how long it takes is frustrating. People were leaving while I was getting my STB because the woman that set it up took so long. But none of the people were there from the time they threatened to call the cops on me when I had an explosion because Adelphia had told me I could simply pick up an SA 8300 (when they were brand new) at the Macedonia office and they didn't have any.


I also almost got into a fist fight with some jerk who was standing in line sticking his nose in my business. He took offense because I was saying "damn."


----------



## dleising

Kent TWC office on Rt. 59 has always been very nice as well, and I never see the lines get too bad there either. The one in Akron however, is a joke. If they told me that they would have boxes the next day, I would still not expect to see any boxes when I came back. They have no idea what they are doing.


----------



## ErieMarty

 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/...e_warner_cable


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15418335
> 
> 
> I havn't watched the local news cosistantly (on any channel) for at least 3-4 years.



I haven't watched the local news on any channel for at least 30-40 years. News comes from the internet, public radio, and an occasional newspaper. That stuff on TV has so little news content as to be laughable. And that is NOT a new development - it's been true for decades.


(And no, I'm not exaggerating in that first sentence.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15421361
> 
> 
> Kent TWC office on Rt. 59 has always been very nice as well, and I never see the lines get too bad there either. The one in Akron however, is a joke. If they told me that they would have boxes the next day, I would still not expect to see any boxes when I came back. They have no idea what they are doing.



Yes, that's why I was cracking up over nickdawg's comment about how he was going to ask the people at the office about SDV. If anything, they know less about it then Customer Service.


----------



## hookbill

I saw the crawl the other day about the problem with Wadsworth and WOIO and the telephone company.


I see that this is close to Akron. I'm wondering if TW is in there as well?


I also have my doubts that if they don't sign with WOIO they will lose CBS. This is just a guess but it may be that they will deliver a signal from CBS in Columbus. Is there a CBS outlet in Canton? That would work as well.


I wouldn't put it past WOIO to use scare tactics to try and secure their contract demands.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15421904
> 
> 
> I saw the crawl the other day about the problem with Wadsworth and WOIO and the telephone company.
> 
> 
> I see that this is close to Akron. I'm wondering if TW is in there as well?



Wadsworth has its own, separate, city-run cable TV system that actually competes with Time Warner within city limits. I know this, because they were just talking about it when I lived in that area.

http://tv.wadsnet.com/ 



> Quote:
> Wadsworth Cable TV was created by the City and Community of Wadsworth to provide a low cost alternative for Cable TV service. We have grown from a few customers in one section of the City in 1997, to today, providing the entire City plus some sections of the Township with Cable TV service.
> 
> 
> From our Analog service to our new Digital Service, Wadsworth Cable TV continues to provide a local alternative for Cable TV.



Just north of Wadsworth, in Sharon Center, that's the old Adelphia system (which started as Cablevision).


Wadsworth city is served both by an offshoot of TWC's original Akron system, but also by that city-owned cable system.


I don't know if the city system would be allowed/able to pull in WBNS out of Columbus. Wadsworth is quite a hike from there, and not within WBNS' reception area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15423846
> 
> 
> Wadsworth has its own, separate, city-run cable TV system that actually competes with Time Warner within city limits. I know this, because they were just talking about it when I lived in that area.
> 
> http://tv.wadsnet.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just north of Wadsworth, in Sharon Center, that's the old Adelphia system (which started as Cablevision).
> 
> 
> Wadsworth city is served both by an offshoot of TWC's original Akron system, but also by that city-owned cable system.
> 
> *I don't know if the city system would be allowed/able to pull in WBNS out of Columbus.* Wadsworth is quite a hike from there, and not within WBNS' reception area.



That's why I asked if there was an affiliate maybe in Canton.


I just can't imagine a cable company not delivering CBS. If I lived in that community I'd make it my mission to have heads roll on the powers that be, unless of course they can get TW.


I will say this about WOIO Action News: Jeff Tanchak 5 days before Saturday predicted a high of 68 while everyone else was saying low 50's. He was right, and the day before everyone changed their predictions. Also he hit the nail on the head on today's storm ahead of the other guys.


Now having said that I will also say I find him completely annoying. He's like a Deion Sanders of meteorology. Cocky, arrogant, but delivers....At least this time.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Ya Sanders is cocky and arrogant, but delivers the goods. If that weather guy really is doing the same, I'd keep watching/reading his reports wether I liked him or not.

I think most of these meteorologists just grab their info from elsewhere and do the ole copy/paste forcast. Change a number here and there to make it sound legit







.

I understand that NE Ohio may be possibly the hardest weather to predict in the whole country, but that is why each station has a full TEAM of assistants for their weather department.

For the most part, I just look up the weather on the PC. Some guy in California can predict just as good or better than most of the meteorologists in NE Ohio.


----------



## rluyster




hookbill said:


> That's why I asked if there was an affiliate maybe in Canton.
> 
> 
> There is nothing in Canton except low power independent channel 52 and religion huckster channel 17's analog outlet.


----------



## Smarty-pants

analog?

I thought 17 was digital. I remember when I moved into the house where I am now about 4.5 years ago, I tried indoor powered rabbit ears just to see what I would pick up, and I remember getting 17 and they had several sub channels too.

I only live like a mile or two from the tower.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15424373
> 
> 
> Ya Sanders is cocky and arrogant, but delivers the goods. If that weather guy really is doing the same, I'd keep watching/reading his reports wether I liked him or not.
> 
> I think most of these meteorologists just grab their info from elsewhere and do the ole copy/paste forcast. Change a number here and there to make it sound legit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I understand that NE Ohio may be possibly the hardest weather to predict in the whole country, but that is why each station has a full TEAM of assistants for their weather department.
> 
> For the most part, I just look up the weather on the PC. Some guy in California can predict just as good or better than most of the meteorologists in NE Ohio.



Let's be fair about this. They know more then I do and this area is very hard to predict.


Now Cincinnati, that's another story.


You would think L.A. meteorologists would have it easy, but believe it or not it's crazy out there too. They almost never miss when it comes to predicting rain unless it's a cut off low. If you don't know what that is, it's a low pressure area that breaks off the main low pressure area. It's anyone's guess what it will do. Famous saying out there "cut off low, weatherman's woe."


And the same thing applies here with lake effect snow. All they can do is make an educated guess.


I just happen to have Tanchak on one night and there he was saying "nobody else will say this but I'm going to tell you it will be 68 on Saturday and we will set a new record." And he was right. At the same time he said snow around New Years day.


----------



## Smarty-pants

^soothsayer?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15421111
> 
> 
> ML Baseball Network is now up and running on channel 326...just running ads about their new channel...
> 
> 
> I didn't see it on the HD Channels..
> 
> *so who says Time Warner doesn't give us end users what we want*..lol



Unless USA HD and F/X HD light up tomorrow, I do!!!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15420758
> 
> 
> Funny. Down here in Akron, 23 comes in perfect. It even has caused interference on analog channel 74 on cable(which is where 23 OTA shows up on a TV set to CABLE). I can even get it without an antenna connected sometimes. And with rabbit ears, 67 looks pretty good too, even when 3,5 and 8 look like crap or don't even come in at all.



I'm up in central Lake County a few miles from the lake, no 67 or 17 analog whatsoever though I occasionally get analog WNED 17 out of Jamestown/Buffalo with a snowy picture, occasionaly watchable. 23 is another animal, at times very near perfect, most of the time grainy. With an amp (which I thought would help) I get interference & ghosting from 19 analog. I'm not counting on getting 23 after the transition though. 17 (39 DTV) I have recieved once or twice, a relatively weak signal & not strong enough to lock. 67 (47 DTV), not even a heartbeat of a signal.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15421223
> 
> 
> Why don't you at least get the free "lifeline" cable service? Especially if you are having issues getting the locals OTA.



Actually nothing is free, the TWC lifeline I believe varies by community, & it runs at about $15/month here for 12 channels. I am on a lifeline phone here which makes communications all that much more difficult since I only have a 12 mile calling radius to my east & west & 8 miles to my south, after that 27 to 58 cents a minute.... thank god someone made this decision for my boundries in an office buiding in Columbus decades ago, If I lived less than a mile to my west, I'd be able to call clear into Lorain county free of charge.


Again eventually I'd still want the antenna for the balance of the HD locals here too.


When I was purchasing my STB's at CC, the salesman who lives in Madison & had lifeline there said that TWC informed him he would have to purchae a STB in order to continue recieving Cable after Feb '09, this didn't make too much sense to me.


I somewhat detest technology, I'm still on dialup which is making the internet difficult also, so do I cave into pressure & up to DSL, so I can shell out more $$$ so spammers can rape my PC & induate me with more advertising?


Any one notice 61.1 is off the air for the past few days, I know who cares??? si??


----------



## JJkizak

Yeah, and 3.1 was supposed to be high def but somebody forgot to change the switch.

35 analog is pretty strong lately. I get 53 fairly good but 29 is very poor.

JJK


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/15424780
> 
> 
> analog?
> 
> I thought 17 was digital. I remember when I moved into the house where I am now about 4.5 years ago, I tried indoor powered rabbit ears just to see what I would pick up, and I remember getting 17 and they had several sub channels too.
> 
> I only live like a mile or two from the tower.



The analog 17 signal is on a tower in Canton, while the digital is on a tower in Akron.


- Trip


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15425722
> 
> 
> The analog 17 signal is on a tower in Canton, while the digital is on a tower in Akron.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That solves that mystery then. Thanks







.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15425362
> 
> 
> Unless USA HD and F/X HD light up tomorrow, I do!!!



Dream on.....










I'd be surprised if any new HD channels start tomorrow. Maybe 1/2 or 1/3... and if it's the one's you picked, that would be so nice!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15421111
> 
> 
> ML Baseball Network is now up and running on channel 326...just running ads about their new channel...
> 
> 
> I didn't see it on the HD Channels..
> 
> 
> so who says Time Warner doesn't give us end users what we want..lol



I do. I just checked and it's not up and running around here. I used my STB to make sure it wasn't just my TiVo. There is no channel 326. YMMV. Inundated, are you seeing it?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15425402
> 
> 
> That's why my dream has always been that WOIO would go away entirely. And it's becoming more realistic. The economy is in the crapper, stations are cutting back. And when you're owned by Raycheap, "Hey, let's shut down a station or two" is a realistic idea. Then, my dream is that with WOIO gone, WKBN would become Cleveland's CBS affiliate by default. The same way WOIO was carried in Youngstown before a FOX affiliate was established.



Oh,but I would lose CBS then







or at least when it isn't pixelating, lately 19 has been pretty good though), WKBN would need a repeater up here, the few people I know that still have antennas do not get WKBN, even in Kirtland which is quite a bit higher than me.


Realistically the Ceveland market does need repeaters up likely located in Madison to cover those who are below the ridge, & out to Geneva, & Ashtabula where Erie's signal will not likely reach either.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15425658
> 
> 
> Yeah, and 3.1 was supposed to be high def but somebody forgot to change the switch.
> 
> 35 analog is pretty strong lately. I get 53 fairly good but 29 is very poor.
> 
> JJK



How about 65?


Since all are on the same tower, I do get 53 & 65, with a bit of snow but nadda on 35 which is the bonus on that tower... they still show old movies & sitcoms there?


35... now that would make a nice Sub!


----------



## nickdawg

Went back to TWC. Another horrific line. And there was a sing up stating they are out of all HD equipment. But other HD people were waiting in line, so I waited. As I inched, and I mean that literally, closer to the counter I someone else getting a HD STB. As the big purple cabinet opened, there they were, an entire cabinet full of brand new SA 4250HD boxes!!



































I felt like an excited little kid. They actually told the truth!!! Guess everyone has a first time!







But the line was awful. Two windows open. One was doing bills only and the other was worked by a grumpy woman who was slow. And on top of that, these ass holes had some problem and were there for at least 20 minutes. Are the words, "I can't help you right now" in their vocabulary? If some asses want to argue their bill, call on the phone, don't waste time!!


Now, onto the box. It's an OCAP box!



































DAMMIT!! And after seeing the menus on the OCAP box, the version of Navigator on the existing non-OCAP boxes looks beautiful. The OCAP version(ODN) looks like an awful beta test. It's so ugly, crude and slow. It doesn't have the nice fade effects and the channel banner is WAY oversized. I wonder why they don't update this one? The MDN boxes look nice, but the OCAP ones are horrible. But at least all the pay channels are on for free!! That's a win!!


And the strange thing is, Big Ten Network, BTNA(334) and BTN HD have a "Call Customer Service" banner on screen. I wonder why those are off? Also, the HD Tier channels don't come in "for free" like Starz, Showtime and Cinemax.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15426031
> 
> 
> Dream on.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be surprised if any new HD channels start tomorrow. Maybe 1/2 or 1/3... and if it's the one's you picked, that would be so nice!



No, Mr. Bill. Channels will be going AWAY tomorrow. I just saw a story on Channel 3 and they said Time Warner customers will be losing channels. Last I heard, both sides didn't agree on anything yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15426862
> 
> 
> No, Mr. Bill. Channels will be going AWAY tomorrow. I just saw a story on Channel 3 and they said Time Warner customers will be losing channels. Last I heard, both sides didn't agree on anything yet.



nickdawg what channels?


----------



## Trip in VA

For all the complaining nickdawg likes to do about the cable company and the equipment they use, customer service, and just about everything, I'm really surprised his answer to every problem is to "get cable."










- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15426887
> 
> 
> nickdawg what channels?



Anything from Viacom. MTV, MTV2, Nickelodeon, VH1, Spike TV, Comedy Central, ... . They're running messages on screen about it. I saw it on several channels last night.

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_...04084&catid=45


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15426906
> 
> 
> For all the complaining nickdawg likes to do about the cable company and the equipment they use, customer service, and just about everything, I'm really surprised his answer to every problem is to "get cable."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Really. Must be some love-hate relationship going on there, eh? How's the makeup sex?


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15426939
> 
> 
> Really. Must be some love-hate relationship going on there, eh? How's the makeup sex?



SHOCKINGLY good


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15426906
> 
> 
> For all the complaining nickdawg likes to do about the cable company and the equipment they use, customer service, and just about everything, I'm really surprised his answer to every problem is to "get cable."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



All this still doesn't come close to how awful satellite was. I could have USA HD, F/X HD, and others I want now, but it's not worth it. I can live with the ugly menus and long waits at customer service. I never have to go back there and wait, there's a bill slot outside. Only time I might have to go back is if I ever come around to replacing that kitchen TV with an HDTV and I'll need to get another HDTV box. But that's not happening anytime soon.







Even with all this, cable is not that bad. I'd still recommend cable first over any other method of getting TV.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15425470
> 
> 
> Actually nothing is free, the TWC lifeline I believe varies by community, & it runs at about $15/month here for 12 channels. I am on a lifeline phone here which makes communications all that much more difficult since I only have a 12 mile calling radius to my east & west & 8 miles to my south, after that 27 to 58 cents a minute.... thank god someone made this decision for my boundries in an office buiding in Columbus decades ago, If I lived less than a mile to my west, I'd be able to call clear into Lorain county free of charge.
> 
> 
> Again eventually I'd still want the antenna for the balance of the HD locals here too.
> 
> 
> When I was purchasing my STB's at CC, the salesman who lives in Madison & had lifeline there said that TWC informed him he would have to purchae a STB in order to continue receiving Cable after Feb '09, this didn't make too much sense to me.
> 
> 
> I somewhat detest technology, I'm still on dialup which is making the internet difficult also, so do I cave into pressure & up to DSL, so I can shell out more $$$ so spammers can rape my PC & induate me with more advertising?
> 
> 
> Any one notice 61.1 is off the air for the past few days, I know who cares??? si??



No free cable makes sense. I thought there was some discussion in here a while back about cable co's mandated to offer free cable for locals (not QAM) but I probably misread that.


You wouldn't get any more "spam" on cable or DSL internet service than you currently get on dial up. Spam is derived from you (or others) making your email address available to spam collection bots like posting your email on a news group or forum, signing up for email subscriptions, buying things online, forwarding or being forwarded email jokes and chain letters, etc..


Where your email derives from (dial up, cable modem, DSL, satellite, FIOS, whatever) has no bearing on whether you get spam.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15426932
> 
> 
> Anything from Viacom. MTV, MTV2, Nickelodeon, VH1, Spike TV, Comedy Central, ... . They're running messages on screen about it. I saw it on several channels last night.
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_...04084&catid=45



Yeah I saw it.

*The channels that will go dark at midnight tonight if an agreement isn't reached are: Nickelodeon/Nick at Nite, MTV, VH1, Spike, TVLand, Comedy Central, Noggin, MTV2, VH1 Classic, Logo, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, MYV Tr3s, Nick Too, Nicktoons and The N.
*



Let's see how many of these channels do I watch? Why, none at all.


I could care less.


----------



## hookbill

Right after I posted the channels, I read them off to my wife but I threw in a few of the shopping channels. She came over and read the post. Then she started choking me.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15427037
> 
> 
> No free cable makes sense. I thought there was some discussion in here a while back about cable co's mandated to offer free cable for locals (not QAM) but I probably misread that.
> 
> 
> You wouldn't get any more "spam" on cable or DSL internet service than you currently get on dial up. Spam is derived from you (or others) making your email address available to spam collection bots like posting your email on a news group or forum, signing up for email subscriptions, buying things online, forwarding or being forwarded email jokes and chain letters, etc..
> 
> 
> Where your email derives from (dial up, cable modem, DSL, satellite, FIOS, whatever) has no bearing on whether you get spam.



Wasn't really refering to Mail Spam per se, but have you checked your cache & temp folders for all the spyware junk mining information from the PC, It slows my PC to a crawl at times... if this isn't a pleasant experience why would I pay them more?? I'D JUST CANCEL IT & RUN!!!










My Brother called me one day (I don't know everything about PC's but I guess more than he does) saying his PC stopped while on the DSL & a box popped up asking him for a CC# just to make his PC run again... you think I want or need that kind of aggrivation or security breach? Even on this site there is a constant box popping up that wants to install something. (???) it would likely take an hour to do so.


As far as cable goes I was staying at his place in Miami, I was hard pressed to get anything on at 3am on his 70+ Channel cable except for informertials... strange we pay dearly for this 'service'!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15426939
> 
> 
> Really. Must be some love-hate relationship going on there, eh? How's the makeup sex?



LOL you all make my day!!!










Have a great New Year all, & hope the Cable channel god is good to you!


----------



## hookbill

Is any other TW customer seeing the MLB channel other then erieMarty?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15427278
> 
> 
> Wasn't really refering to Mail Spam per se, but have you checked your cache & temp folders for all the spyware junk mining information from the PC, It slows my PC to a crawl at times... if this isn't a pleasant experience why would I pay them more?? I'D JUST CANCEL IT & RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My Brother called me one day (I don't know everything about PC's but I guess more than he does) saying his PC stopped while on the DSL & a box popped up asking him for a CC# just to make his PC run again... you think I want or need that kind of aggrivation or security breach? Even on this site there is a constant box popping up that wants to install something. (???) it would likely take an hour to do so.
> 
> 
> As far as cable goes I was staying at his place in Miami, I was hard pressed to get anything on at 3am on his 70+ Channel cable except for informertials... strange we pay dearly for this 'service'!



Yeah, that's different than spam. That's adbots & malware. But if you have a good firewall and good anti-virus software (and updated regularly) then that shouldn't happen. I've run one home computer online 24/7x365 for the past six years plus a laptop online about half that time. I also use the laptop at free (sometimes illegal) WiFi spots while traveling. A third computer is on maybe 20 hours per week at home. I also prefer to shop online for the savings and convenience. I also run live media streaming devices that require 24/7 internet connections. All said, I've never once had a single issue with adbots or malware. Not one.


It all comes down to good prevention (firewalls and security settings for computers, router and networked devices), plus good anti-virus and don't visit known bad sites







, then you should little if any problem.


----------



## JJkizak

I get 65 analog pretty good with some noise.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15427481
> 
> 
> Is any other TW customer seeing the MLB channel other then erieMarty?



I see it. It's not listed in the TWC guide, but you can get it by punching in 3-2-6 manually. I'm not sure why you'd _want_ to see it. I'd rather be seeing USA HD on 450 and F/X HD on 451!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15427572
> 
> 
> I see it. It's not listed in the TWC guide, but you can get it by punching in 3-2-6 manually. I'm not sure why you'd _want_ to see it. I'd rather be seeing USA HD on 450 and F/X HD on 451!



Interesting! I can't do that. When I punch in 3-2-6 I go right to the Tennis channel. I can do it on my TiVo's but it just says channel not available.


nickdawg you told me you could not punch in channels with navigator. Is this with your STB?


OK Inundated, you can jump in anytime.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15427850
> 
> 
> Interesting! I can't do that. When I punch in 3-2-6 I go right to the Tennis channel. I can do it on my TiVo's but it just says channel not available.
> 
> 
> nickdawg you told me you could not punch in channels with navigator. Is this with your STB?
> 
> 
> OK Inundated, you can jump in anytime.



Yes you can. You can punch in channels. It's the only way to get "hidden" channels like the SDV test channels. The only place you can't punch in channels is the guide, if they don't have it programmed in. Doing 3-2-6 in the guide takes me to the Tennis channel too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15427995
> 
> 
> Yes you can. You can punch in channels. It's the only way to get "hidden" channels like the SDV test channels. The only place you can't punch in channels is the guide, if they don't have it programmed in. Doing 3-2-6 in the guide takes me to the Tennis channel too.



You know you are a real piece of work. I'm not going to do it because it's time consuming but we talked about this. It was around the Olympics.


On second thought I will pursue this. This is what you said .

_Originally Posted by hookbill View Post

In the meantime, try punching in 450 manually and see if you still get it. Just because I have TiVo shouldn't make a difference (I don't think). You will have to set up manual recordings until or if they put it back on the line up.


Unless they did something to those SA 8300 boxes to keep you from getting to that channel.''_


That's your quote of what I said. Here's your response:

*Tivo beats us at that too!! With SA boxes, you cannot tune any channel that's not mapped to a source. 4-5-0 does nothing, just flashing question marks. If I still had Passport and knew the frequency of the channel I could probably manually tune it from the diagnostic screen, but they took that away! I'm not surprised the worthless lump of flesh, err, umm, I mean "TWC CSR", didn't know about USA HD. It was never advertised by TWC. I wonder how manyy HD viewers didn't even know they had it available? Here we get a massage on channels like ESPN and STO that say "Press Select For Enhanced" that brings up a box with the option to tune to the HD channel. I believe that's also the interface for features like StartOver as well. But forget about that, they can't even ass new HD channels*


Now if it's not on the guide you're saying it still can be a mapped source. Well I punch in 326 without the guide and I get 327. So it's not active in my area.










This must be original TW people getting this. We will probably get it when they actually start showing something.


This also proves that we are still not all on the same system, which means that SDV is still a long, long ways away.


----------



## hookbill

While there is an abundance of information on the STB concerning SDV, there is no evidence of any activity going on in my area. All diagnostic info shows no activity. Nothing is mapped to the SDV channels on SARA. When you hit 950 it goes to 1000.


Maybe nickdawg and all you original TW people will get SDV before the rest of us, but I doubt you will see any increase in HD programming based upon the simple fact that if they give you channels and we don't get them, we will b#tch about it. Or at least I will:

_Dear Mr. Fry,


It has come to my attention etc. etc. etc.....







_


Edit: Hey, maybe if they get rid of all those unnecessary channels, well maybe not Comedy I kind of understand that one we'd have more bandwith for HD!!!!!!


----------



## Vchat20

Just had a bit more info come across the local news about this TW/Viacom mess and said Viacom is pushing for a 21-30% per channel carriage fee increase. Know what I say? ****. YOU. Take your channels and shove 'em.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15428526
> 
> 
> While there is an abundance of information on the STB concerning SDV, there is no evidence of any activity going on in my area. All diagnostic info shows no activity. Nothing is mapped to the SDV channels on SARA. When you hit 950 it goes to 1000.
> 
> 
> Maybe nickdawg and all you original TW people will get SDV before the rest of us, but I doubt you will see any increase in HD programming based upon the simple fact that if they give you channels and we don't get them, we will b#tch about it. Or at least I will:
> 
> _Dear Mr. Fry,
> 
> 
> It has come to my attention etc. etc. etc.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> Edit: Hey, maybe if they get rid of all those unnecessary channels, well maybe not Comedy I kind of understand that one we'd have more bandwith for HD!!!!!!



Yeah but, we had WBNS, FOOD, History, A&E, HGTV for almost more than a month before other areas. I'm sure they'd add other channels here too. That way TWC can brag about how many channels NE Ohio has, even if they are not in all areas.


----------



## Inundated

It looks like we're on a collision course for the Viacom/TWC thing:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...3hjsAD95E2EN00 



> Quote:
> LOS ANGELES (AP) — A spat between Time Warner Cable Inc. and Viacom Inc. over how much the cable company pays to carry channels such as MTV and Comedy Central headed down to the wire on New Year's Eve — as a blackout loomed at a minute past the stroke of midnight.
> 
> 
> Time Warner, the nation's second-largest cable operator, proposed an increase in what it pays for Viacom's channels, but the offer was rejected as "a pittance," said Viacom spokeswoman Kelly McAndrew.



Here's the list of channels affected:



> Quote:
> Comedy Central, Logo, Palladia, MTV, MTV 2, MTV Hits, MTV Jams, MTV Tr3s, Nickelodeon, Noggin, Nick 2, Nicktoons, Spike, The N, TV Land, VH1, VH1 Classic, VH1 Soul and CMT: Pure Country.



Out of all of that, the only thing I'd miss would be Comedy Central, and only for Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Some of the old 60's/70's sitcoms on my TiVo's Auto Record Wish List used to show up on TV Land, but not anymore.


Unfortunately, it looks like Viacom intends on blocking TWC/Brighthouse subscribers from the video on their websites as well, so you won't be able to watch "The Daily Show" on its own site. If you go to the TDS site tonight, there's a message warning you that you won't be able to watch either on the cable channel or online...I saw it earlier tonight.


The rest of their channels can go to heck as far as I'm concerned. I'll find a way to watch TDS/Colbert...after tonight, you'll probably only have to do moderate searching to find that video, and Viacom won't be able to shut it all down quick enough.


Or, I can just hook my Treo to my laptop and watch it via Verizon Wireless' EVDO.


----------



## nickdawg

MLB Network---Added to TWC guide on channel 326.

WKYC Weather Plus---Still available on channel 372.


I hope it stays that way. If they're gonna waste our HD bandwidth, then we better get to benefit from being able to see the channel. What kind of ass-backwards logic are they using? Pandering to OTA viewers. They're supposed to be pandering to *us*. You get what you pay for.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15428655
> 
> 
> Just had a bit more info come across the local news about this TW/Viacom mess and said Viacom is pushing for a 21-30% per channel carriage fee increase. Know what I say? ****. YOU. Take your channels and shove 'em.



Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15428670
> 
> 
> Yeah but, we had WBNS, FOOD, History, A&E, HGTV for almost more than a month before other areas. I'm sure they'd add other channels here too. That way TWC can brag about how many channels NE Ohio has, even if they are not in all areas.



No you didn't nickdawg. We all got it at the same time.










If I'm wrong show me the discussion that indicates we got it at separate times.


----------



## scnrfrq

TW reached an agreement with Viacom at 11:48 last night. The channels will stay.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15429537
> 
> 
> MLB Network---Added to TWC guide on channel 326.
> 
> WKYC Weather Plus---Still available on channel 372.
> 
> 
> I hope it stays that way. If they're gonna waste our HD bandwidth, then we better get to benefit from being able to see the channel. What kind of ass-backwards logic are they using? Pandering to OTA viewers. They're supposed to be pandering to *us*. You get what you pay for.



Edit: I just checked and it's on my wife's television. Guide data is there too. So you really didn't get it before us since there was nothing but advertisements and no guide data.

And Happy New Year Everybody!!!! Here's hoping for better times for all of us and more HD channels for everybody's taste.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15429639
> 
> 
> TW reached an agreement with Viacom at 11:48 last night. The channels will stay.



I kind of thought it would work out that way. Many cable companies will wait until the last minute. On the other hand think of all the advertising revenue that the channels would have lost had they not reached an agreement.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15429658
> 
> 
> I kind of thought it would work out that way. Many cable companies will wait until the last minute. On the other hand think of all the advertising revenue that the channels would have lost had they not reached an agreement.



This little game becomes somewhat different when Viacom looks at losing 15 million viewers. You can mess around with Joe's Local Cable Co-Op, but numbers like that potentially impact the bottom line if they're not there to watch your shows.


I'm glad they figured it out. But if they didn't, I was ready to say "screw you, Viacom" and boycott all their channels...even if they'd eventually have come back.


----------



## Inundated

MLB Network is live here as well on 326...with the running video counting down to a start at, I believe, 6 PM ET.


The TiVo is still running without a lineup change, but I can get to it manually.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15430921
> 
> 
> MLB Network is live here as well on 326...with the running video counting down to a start at, I believe, 6 PM ET.
> 
> 
> The TiVo is still running without a lineup change, but I can get to it manually.



For some reason TW doesn't hit my S3 from time to time when they add a new channel. Today it hit one of my cable cards on my TiVo HD but not the other. I did a channel rescan and that solved that, but the S3 I had to call customer service.


Here's the difficult part of owning a TiVo. These morons are programmed to think that all DVR's are their's. I say one of my TV's is not getting 236. They say, "wow you have 6 cable cards." Yes, but 3 televisions.


Now you would think they would understand the concept of pairing as their own boxes have cards now but they don't. And I tell them I have the cable card number and they say, "I need you to read the serial number on the back of the box."







Listen, idiot this is my equipment and you don't know the serial number. I didn't say that but that's what I'm thinking.


I hung up on rep 1 and called back. Patiently I tried to explain about the cards. I read the card numbers to him. He says "You need to unplug your box, remove the cards, and reboot it." I say already did that. He says "in that case we will need to send a tech out....."










I say no, just send a hit to those two cards and that will fix it. He does, and guess what? It fixed the problem. I let him know and he's thanking me for letting him know how to handle this, admits that he gets calls like this and doesn't have success and ask me to go over the procedure again. I do and he thanks me.


As more companies produce DVR's and there will be more these guys are going to have to get educated on their products, or just learn to listen to their customers.


Oh and I called TiVo and notified them of the channel change. That was another experience you can read about here . Also I sent an email to zap2it.com.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15430881
> 
> 
> This little game becomes somewhat different when Viacom looks at losing 15 million viewers. You can mess around with Joe's Local Cable Co-Op, but numbers like that potentially impact the bottom line if they're not there to watch your shows.



Exactly, Inundated. They were supposedly hurting for ad revenue prior to this, and they would've only shot themselves in their collective feet if they pulled the plug on their channels across the country.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15431058
> 
> 
> Oh and I called TiVo and notified them of the channel change. That was another experience you can read about here . Also I sent an email to zap2it.com.



Good. Then I don't have to







Two times is probably best...at least one will get to TMS and make the change!


I've done this before...I'm the one who got the listings for the Cleveland feed of Fox Sports Ohio fixed on analog 30. That channel was showing the lineup for the Cincinnati feed, complete with Reds games.


If you go into the TiVo "live guide" and go to channel 30, then move the cursor on "30 FSNOH1", it now says "Fox Sports Ohio 1 (Cleveland feed)".


----------



## hookbill

Got any idea what happened to WOIO and the other cable companies?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15431493
> 
> 
> Got any idea what happened to WOIO and the other cable companies?



From the ABJ's Rich Heldenfels:

http://www.ohio.com/news/36966584.html 



> Quote:
> In a separate cable issue, Wadsworth Cable TV managed to avoid losing WOIO (Channel 19) and WUAB (Channel 43) when its current agreement to carry the stations ran out last night. Raycom Media, the stations' owner, agreed to extend the deal with Wadsworth until Jan. 12 so the two sides could continue negotiating.



I can't find anything about the Conneaut system.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15429638
> 
> 
> No you didn't nickdawg. We all got it at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm wrong show me the discussion that indicates we got it at separate times.



I don't have time to read pages of conversation, but I did it anyway. Here you go!! Notice I commented about the new channels in March and Inundated said that "the ex Adelphia areas" got the lineup on 4/30. That's over a month later. And almost two months from the original announced date. So, if what someone here said was true about new channels coming in February, expect to see them in April(or May)!









*03-18-08, 05:09 AM #11978 | Link

nickdawg

Uranium Member


Join Date: Oct 2007

Location: Akron, Ohio

Posts: 1,865


Big Grin The Channel Change Came!!!

Around 4:56 the new channels appeared. My lineup has been changed and the new HD channels added!! So far I'm not liking the new HD nationals. Paid Programming is on and they're stretchovision WBNX is OAR and 5.1


Interestingly, the new channels are not appearing on the Navigatored box yet.*

*04-30-08, 09:02 AM #12691 | Link

Inundated

AVS Special Member


Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: NE Ohio

Posts: 3,951


The lineup is in here in ex-Adelphia land in western Summit County. I haven't checked for any missing channels yet...


And hookbill? I HAVE an HD set now. But thanks for your generous offer.*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15432249
> 
> 
> I don't have time to read pages of conversation, but I did it anyway. Here you go!! Notice I commented about the new channels in March and Inundated said that "the ex Adelphia areas" got the lineup on 4/30. That's over a month later. And almost two months from the original announced date. So, if what someone here said was true about new channels coming in February, expect to see them in April(or May)!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *03-18-08, 05:09 AM #11978 | Link
> 
> nickdawg
> 
> Uranium Member
> 
> 
> Join Date: Oct 2007
> 
> Location: Akron, Ohio
> 
> Posts: 1,865
> 
> 
> Big Grin The Channel Change Came!!!
> 
> Around 4:56 the new channels appeared. My lineup has been changed and the new HD channels added!! So far I'm not liking the new HD nationals. Paid Programming is on and they're stretchovision WBNX is OAR and 5.1
> 
> 
> Interestingly, the new channels are not appearing on the Navigatored box yet.*
> 
> *04-30-08, 09:02 AM #12691 | Link
> 
> Inundated
> 
> AVS Special Member
> 
> 
> Join Date: Sep 2004
> 
> Location: NE Ohio
> 
> Posts: 3,951
> 
> 
> The lineup is in here in ex-Adelphia land in western Summit County. I haven't checked for any missing channels yet...
> 
> 
> And hookbill? I HAVE an HD set now. But thanks for your generous offer.*




You're talking about the channel change. Yes, you did get the line up change before we did but I don't recall if there were any HD channels there.


Anyway even if there was that's apples and oranges. That was a massive switch that took time to spread out around the area. I'm talking about getting a HD channel all by itself before we did.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15432300
> 
> 
> Anyway even if there was that's apples and oranges. That was a massive switch that took time to spread out around the area. I'm talking about getting a HD channel all by itself before we did.



We had ESPN2HD nearly a year before they did.










(Of course, that's because it was left over from the Adelphia thing!)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15431807
> 
> 
> From the ABJ's Rich Heldenfels:
> 
> http://www.ohio.com/news/36966584.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find anything about the Conneaut system.



Who cares, that's not even in the Cleveland market.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15427497
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's different than spam. That's adbots & malware. But if you have a good firewall and good anti-virus software (and updated regularly) then that shouldn't happen. I've run one home computer online 24/7x365 for the past six years plus a laptop online about half that time. I also use the laptop at free (sometimes illegal) WiFi spots while traveling. A third computer is on maybe 20 hours per week at home. I also prefer to shop online for the savings and convenience. I also run live media streaming devices that require 24/7 internet connections. All said, I've never once had a single issue with adbots or malware. Not one.
> 
> 
> It all comes down to good prevention (firewalls and security settings for computers, router and networked devices), plus good anti-virus and don't visit known bad sites
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , then you should little if any problem.



Correct, Malware I could not think of the term at the time.










Yeah a lot of people have such luck, but myself I don't trust internet commerece, I am consistantly being tried to get scammed when I post classifieds ect. Such security comes with a price, I'm not going to ask, but I can't imagine your monthly bills for this & the little tack on fees.... let alone how you can keep track of what you atre paying to whom. My ISP is 9.98 a month no ups, taxes or extras.


I recently picked up a New PC, I am dismayed on how it actually needs the internet & is asking for it too! I just wanted a machine to do my book keeping on that would be completly free of any external online forces. I am in dismay that MS premotes this, only allows one backup copy, does not give system discs with the systems anymore, & makes you rely on an ISP for updates instead of offering affordable or free (like they used to be) current system fixes. Upon turning on this machine, it wanted me to 'subscribe' to about 4 different services, which I could imagine would cost between $50-$100 a month.


I am disappointed with this new Machine (With Vista), because of this. I am unsure If I will continue to use the internet at some point in the near future.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15432907
> 
> 
> Correct, Malware I could not think of the term at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah a lot of people have such luck, but myself I don't trust internet commerece, I am consistantly being tried to get scammed when I post classifieds ect. Such security comes with a price, I'm not going to ask, but I can't imagine your monthly bills for this & the little tack on fees.... let alone how you can keep track of what you atre paying to whom. My ISP is 9.98 a month no ups, taxes or extras.
> 
> 
> I recently picked up a New PC, I am dismayed on how it actually needs the internet & is asking for it too! I just wanted a machine to do my book keeping on that would be completly free of any external online forces. I am in dismay that MS premotes this, only allows one backup copy, does not give system discs with the systems anymore, & makes you rely on an ISP for updates instead of offering affordable or free (like they used to be) current system fixes. Upon turning on this machine, it wanted me to 'subscribe' to about 4 different services, which I could imagine would cost between $50-$100 a month.
> 
> 
> I am disappointed with this new Machine (With Vista), because of this. I am unsure If I will continue to use the internet at some point in the near future.



This is all off topic, but when was the last time you bought a computer? Better yet when was the last time you installed programs?


Yes, everything goes on the internet. My work when I call in sick I log it on the internet. As far as being safe in purchases so long as you see https at the start of the web address, then it's between you and the vendor. Of course you want to be careful who you buy from, but certainly Amazon.com and such is fine. Cables on Monoprice.com.


$9.95 for the internet? That's got to be dial up. I can't imagine using dial up. If it isn't then you got a deal but I'll bet you're going a snail's pace.


Want to avoid viruses? Get a Mac.


----------



## hookbill

In regards to PC's, Mac's, or whatever eventually it's all going to be one. I don't know how you thing your going to avoid it. Your television eventually will be hooked up to your PC. I would imagine eventually the DVR's that the cable companies distribute will start communicating with PC's (or macs). Heck I use my TiVo all the time with my Mac and wireless internet. I program my TiVo with my Mac using the internet. I even check available disk on my TiVo space with Windows Vista that I run concurrent with my Mac.


I download HD programs off the internet. I scan them for viruses before I open them.


I was reading an article about how Yahoo is planning on being a major player along with Intel on Internet Television. I see a DVR being part of this, your DVR would stream the programming from the internet. Or you could watch from your computer.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15433158
> 
> 
> In regards to PC's, Mac's, or whatever eventually it's all going to be one. I don't know how you thing your going to avoid it. Your television eventually will be hooked up to your PC. I would imagine eventually the DVR's that the cable companies distribute will start communicating with PC's (or macs). Heck I use my TiVo all the time with my Mac and wireless internet. I program my TiVo with my Mac using the internet. I even check available disk on my TiVo space with Windows Vista that I run concurrent with my Mac.
> 
> 
> I download HD programs off the internet. I scan them for viruses before I open them.
> 
> 
> I was reading an article about how Yahoo is planning on being a major player along with Intel on Internet Television. I see a DVR being part of this, your DVR would stream the programming from the internet. Or you could watch from your computer.



Hookbill, I can't imagine watching TV from a computer, let alone U-Tube!


I guess, when & if this becomes inevidable, OTA ends, my TV will go dark, or I'll just use it for VHS, DVD or the Atari 2600! .. no monthly fees at least.










TiVo I understood thinks for you & records shows you don't choose to watch, creating wear & tear on the hard drive leading to it's own destruction...true?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15433071
> 
> 
> This is all off topic, but when was the last time you bought a computer? Better yet when was the last time you installed programs?
> 
> 
> Yes, everything goes on the internet. My work when I call in sick I log it on the internet. As far as being safe in purchases so long as you see https at the start of the web address, then it's between you and the vendor. Of course you want to be careful who you buy from, but certainly Amazon.com and such is fine. Cables on Monoprice.com.
> 
> 
> $9.95 for the internet? That's got to be dial up. I can't imagine using dial up. If it isn't then you got a deal but I'll bet you're going a snail's pace.
> 
> 
> Want to avoid viruses? Get a Mac.



My apologies for going off topic but since you say TV will tie in with a PC eventually, so be it. My new machine I purchased earlier in the month does not have a serial port nor a parralel printer port... I do need these to operate older equipment too, as I was into amateur radio many of these devices can be programmed or controled by an older PC, the programs will no longer run on these newer machines, & I'm simply not going to trash perfectly good working equipment.


My current PC is a early 99 model, & yes I'm on dialup, you mean you can't purchase programs, install them & be done with it anymore??


I'm trying to sell a few things via this web & am recieving all kinds of replies from scammers (yes I can tell who they are) & when a box pops up on my screen from some stranger who is telling me all kinds of personal information about myself, (ie my machine type, where I am located), I feel I need to disconnect, do these peeps have lives or just like to torment others??


With the current state of the economy, having the consistant threat of being laid off for the past 15 years & making less than half of what I did 10 years ago, I find that I needed to economize & not get involved with monthly payments & long term contracts, in addition I hate to get spoiled & used to something I know I'll likely eventually have to give up. Just my way of thinking here, but for some it's nice to feel secure & not deny yourself some of these luxuries too. I also enjoy learning about some of this new technology from many of you.










OK, Back on topic...


& BTW, I still am watching 1979, 1984, & 1996 model Televisions too!










PSS.... I seem to have already forgot the password MS forced me to make for Vista... guess I have to trash the machine!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15436796
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo I understood thinks for you & records shows you don't choose to watch, creating wear & tear on the hard drive leading to it's own destruction...true?



That's just one of many reasons why I don't like Tivo. It's too "1984" "Big Brother"-ish to have a machine with a mind of its own _think_ and record shows for me. I don't want some machine tracking what I watch with a mind of its own.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15432300
> 
> 
> You're talking about the channel change. Yes, you did get the line up change before we did but I don't recall if there were any HD channels there.
> 
> 
> Anyway even if there was that's apples and oranges. That was a massive switch that took time to spread out around the area. I'm talking about getting a HD channel all by itself before we did.



Umm, yes there were. STO HD, FOOD HD, A&E HD, HGTV HD, History HD, WBNX HD were added during the channel change. They were not added before. Since we got the channel change first, we got the channels first. And now with SDV, I can see the same thing happening. Why would they be pushing forward with SDV, only to wait for a system out in the boondocks to upgrade before adding anything? Large markets like this do this kind of thing. I've read about TWC in places like NY where channels are added in one area and others or none in another.


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## nickdawg

As usual with TWC, this new box had all the pay channels active when I picked it up. But something different happened this time, they shut everything off in about 24 hours. Those f**king bastards!!






































































I couldn't believe it. I was watching a movie on Showtime HD and right in the middle it went dark. A message even popped up stating "This Channel Has Been Disabled". Wow, aren't they nice!










But overall, the 4250HD box is a great piece of equipment. Not as nice as the 8300HD I have, but worlds better than that Pioneer piece of s***. But again, the problems are ALL software related since they use the awful OCAP Digital Navigator(ODN) that is an entirely different animal than Mystro Digital Navigator(MDN) used on legacy boxes. I know SARA is the favorite whipping boy by some here(*AHEM*) but even SARA at its worst is better than ODN at its best. The channel banner is grotesquely oversized, the UI can be slow at times and I can grow a full wolf-man beard on a clean shaven face in the time it takes for th boot sequence







. My real dream is that they would start using SARA on *all* TWC systems, but I'd settle for navigator if they would adapt the MDN version for OCAP. Or abolish OCAP all together. That would be nice!









































































My only other gripe is the picture formats. I doubt this is software-related as Passport behaved the same way. If you connect the box using RF, S-Video or Composite there is no way to resize the picture on the HD channels. Since I am using this box on a SDTV in the bedroom, I had hoped that there was a way to change the picture size, like the CECB boxes can. However, all I get is either a squashed picture with bars on top and bottom or bars on all four sides



































. But again, this is really no big deal, since all I do is not use the HDTV channels on that box. Since they started taking HD channels to feed SD, the SD channels look about the same, and they're 4:3 to fit my old TV screen.


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## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15432907
> 
> 
> Correct, Malware I could not think of the term at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah a lot of people have such luck, but myself I don't trust internet commerece, I am consistantly being tried to get scammed when I post classifieds ect. Such security comes with a price, I'm not going to ask, but I can't imagine your monthly bills for this & the little tack on fees.... let alone how you can keep track of what you atre paying to whom. My ISP is 9.98 a month no ups, taxes or extras.
> 
> 
> I recently picked up a New PC, I am dismayed on how it actually needs the internet & is asking for it too! I just wanted a machine to do my book keeping on that would be completly free of any external online forces. I am in dismay that MS premotes this, only allows one backup copy, does not give system discs with the systems anymore, & makes you rely on an ISP for updates instead of offering affordable or free (like they used to be) current system fixes. Upon turning on this machine, it wanted me to 'subscribe' to about 4 different services, which I could imagine would cost between $50-$100 a month.
> 
> 
> I am disappointed with this new Machine (With Vista), because of this. I am unsure If I will continue to use the internet at some point in the near future.



- Not luck, just basic and simple maintenance and precautions, like changing your oil every 3,000 miles

- Online bill pay, combined with buyers protection (and free extended warrantees) using a credit card, actually SIMPLIFIES what I'm paying to whom.









- I pay only for high speed internet service, nothing more, nothing else









- I use Free AVG v.8, completely free anti virus & email protection, complete system scans, updates daily

- When using e-commerce or classifieds use a disposable email like Hotmail. When the junk starts piling up after a year or so, stop using that email and open a new one. Free.

- All business' are going to the internet and will "direct" you there (sometimes very aggressively). Local news programs even say "go to WOIO.com for more details". This is the future.


Sounds like most of your computer issues stem from you posting and using your real email where a disposable email could be used. See if your dial up provider will provide you with a new email for personal use (most allow 4 email accounts), turn off your present email, start using a Hotmail or like email service for e-commerce and anything posted online. In time I'll bet your online experience will improve dramatically.










As hook says, a home server for all entertainment is here and will be the future. If you can't get good OTA and you don't want to pay for cable (which I completely understand







), there are THOUSANDS of completely free cable and internet broadcast channels on the internet. But you'll need a good virus free computer and high speed internet to access them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15436850
> 
> 
> My apologies for going off topic but since you say TV will tie in with a PC eventually, so be it. My new machine I purchased earlier in the month does not have a serial port nor a parralel printer port... I do need these to operate older equipment too, as I was into amateur radio many of these devices can be programmed or controled by an older PC, the programs will no longer run on these newer machines, & I'm simply not going to trash perfectly good working equipment.
> 
> 
> My current PC is a early 99 model, & yes I'm on dialup, you mean you can't purchase programs, install them & be done with it anymore??
> 
> 
> I'm trying to sell a few things via this web & am recieving all kinds of replies from scammers (yes I can tell who they are) & when a box pops up on my screen from some stranger who is telling me all kinds of personal information about myself, (ie my machine type, where I am located), I feel I need to disconnect, do these peeps have lives or just like to torment others??
> 
> 
> With the current state of the economy, having the consistant threat of being laid off for the past 15 years & making less than half of what I did 10 years ago, I find that I needed to economize & not get involved with monthly payments & long term contracts, in addition I hate to get spoiled & used to something I know I'll likely eventually have to give up. Just my way of thinking here, but for some it's nice to feel secure & not deny yourself some of these luxuries too. I also enjoy learning about some of this new technology from many of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, Back on topic...
> 
> 
> & BTW, I still am watching 1979, 1984, & 1996 model Televisions too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PSS.... I seem to have already forgot the password MS forced me to make for Vista... guess I have to trash the machine!



No apology necessary. I do it all the time, probably more then anyone else.


As far as selling things goes on the web, yes that can be difficult to start. You need to "establish" yourself on the net, like in ebay where you get feedback and then more people buy from you.


The wife and I have "AntiqueParrot" on ebay and we never had problems selling stuff because she new how to present the items, and developed our reputation. 100% positive feedback. We haven't sold anything however in quite some time.


I have Vista on my Mac and while it asked me to establish a password, I didn't have to. But once you do I think you're stuck.


Back on topic with your televisions, I think Inundated probably has sets like that laying around his house. He's a very high tech person but he doesn't like to replace it if it ain't broke. You don't know how long I nagged him into buying a HDTV. I tried embarrassing him. I tried everything. Finally he broke down (nothing to do with me) and bought one.










Edit: One thing I didn't touch on. Yes you can buy programs and install them but most of the time now you can download them from the internet. However in your case with dial up, lord knows how long that would take. You can even purchase Vista on line but an install via dial up I think would be impossible.


Almost all new programs will need to access the internet from time to time to update. Take your anti virus. I update mine daily automatically through the web. Is that necessary? Yes, because new virus and malware are developed daily. If you're not updating daily, you should. And those suggestions toby10 gave you for software are all good suggestions. I also recommend downloading free Zone Alarm and turning off your Windows firewall. www.downloads.com . You can get all that stuff there. Free. And you can test your security here .


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15437015
> 
> 
> Umm, yes there were. STO HD, FOOD HD, A&E HD, HGTV HD, History HD, WBNX HD were added during the channel change. They were not added before. Since we got the channel change first, we got the channels first. And now with SDV, I can see the same thing happening. Why would they be pushing forward with SDV, only to wait for a system out in the boondocks to upgrade before adding anything? Large markets like this do this kind of thing. I've read about TWC in places like NY where channels are added in one area and others or none in another.



OK. I hope you get it first. Maybe you'll stop whining so much.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15436897
> 
> 
> That's just one of many reasons why I don't like Tivo. It's too "1984" "Big Brother"-ish to have a machine with a mind of its own _think_ and record shows for me. I don't want some machine tracking what I watch with a mind of its own.



In your case I think you need someone to make decisions for you.









HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS: YOU CAN TURN THE SUGGESTIONS OFF!


I never turn mine on. I don't even look at the suggestions. And those suggestions if you do record them are based on how you rate shows. You give it 1-3 thumbs up or down. It doesn't record shows you give a thumbs down to. And it also doesn't use disk space, TiVo suggestions are deleted for your own programs.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15437016
> 
> 
> As usual with TWC, this new box had all the pay channels active when I picked it up. But something different happened this time, they shut everything off in about 24 hours. Those f**king bastards!!
> 
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> 
> I couldn't believe it. I was watching a movie on Showtime HD and right in the middle it went dark. A message even popped up stating "This Channel Has Been Disabled". Wow, aren't they nice!



nickdawg, could it be possible that since your box was brand new it shut down to do a software upgrade?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15437493
> 
> 
> In your case I think you need someone to make decisions for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS: YOU CAN TURN THE SUGGESTIONS OFF!
> 
> 
> I never turn mine on. I don't even look at the suggestions. And those suggestions if you do record them are based on how you rate shows. You give it 1-3 thumbs up or down. It doesn't record shows you give a thumbs down to. And it also doesn't use disk space, TiVo suggestions are deleted for your own programs.



Until it gets a mind of its own. And then once you lose your job and friends, it goes after your mom with a baseball bat.











































































































http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/893


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## edjrwinnt

I just upgraded my TiVoHD with a Terabyte of storage. It's a lot easier to upgrade than the old days using a Linux command line editor and a Terminal serial connection.


When is Time Warner adding FX HD??? Nip Tuck starts next week.


Also, anyone not getting channel 436 on their TiVoHD or Series 3? I think I'm having the same problem I had before after the summer TiVo update that folks like me in Lorain County and Mentor had.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/15444081
> 
> 
> I just upgraded my TiVoHD with a Terabyte of storage. It's a lot easier to upgrade than the old days using a Linux command line editor and a Terminal serial connection.
> 
> 
> When is Time Warner adding FX HD??? Nip Tuck starts next week.
> 
> 
> Also, anyone not getting channel 436 on their TiVoHD or Series 3? I think I'm having the same problem I had before after the summer TiVo update that folks like me in Lorain County and Mentor had.




Hey, congrats on the upgrade. Don't forget you can still add an additional 500gb with an eSATA and if you have a wireless network, your computer can be available as well.


Their is no evidence that FXHD is being added. This is wishful thinking and speculation. I truly wish it was being added it's one of my favorites.


In my "research" of how TW adds HD channels, FX does not appear to be one of the channels they add on until after SDV and then I don't know how much longer afterwards.


I see it's available on the Columbus line up.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15441259
> 
> 
> Until it gets a mind of its own. And then once you lose your job and friends, it goes after your mom with a baseball bat.
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> http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/893



I just noticed the link you put on there at the end of your statement. At first I just thought it was more nickdawg crazy talk but I clicked the link. Very good, nickdawg.


You shouldn't have told me what was happening. You should have said "This is why I won't buy TiVo" and put a hyper link somewheres. You spoiled the ending!!!!


Very Funny. Thanks.


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## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15446092
> 
> 
> I just noticed the link you put on there at the end of your statement. At first I just thought it was more nickdawg crazy talk but I clicked the link. Very good, nickdawg.
> 
> 
> You shouldn't have told me what was happening. You should have said "This is why I won't buy TiVo" and put a hyper link somewheres. You spoiled the ending!!!!
> 
> 
> Very Funny. Thanks.



I was wondering why you hadn't commented on it!

That was a funny clip.


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## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15446137
> 
> 
> I was wondering why you hadn't commented on it!
> 
> That was a funny clip.



I'm wondering how come nickdawg didn't comment on my suggestion that his box was updating, and that was probably why it went out on him.


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## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15446191
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how come nickdawg didn't comment on my suggestion that his box was updating, and that was probably why it went out on him.



I suspect he's too busy scouring the internet to find a knock off clip of the movie Videodrome, where anything presented in "stretch-o-vision" is actually a form of mind control to get people to buy more premium cable services.


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## Inundated

Conneaut is in the Cleveland market...by a hair.










The market actually extends from the OH/PA border up there, to Mansfield, to Sandusky. It's basically all of Northeast Ohio except for Trumbull/Mahoning/Columbiana Counties.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15436897
> 
> 
> That's just one of many reasons why I don't like Tivo. It's too "1984" "Big Brother"-ish to have a machine with a mind of its own _think_ and record shows for me. I don't want some machine tracking what I watch with a mind of its own.



There's not much "mind" in the Suggestions.


I have about four or five old sitcoms (70's-80's era) going on Auto Record Wish Lists. If I go in and look at Suggestions, it wants to record every sitcom ever made, it seems. I also record a 70's game show because a dear friend of mine was a contestant on a few episodes in 1978, and Suggestions thinks I'm a big game show fan.










Like most TiVo owners, one of the first things I did was turn off the auto recording Suggestions. It still accumulates the lists, but I have to go in and look for them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15447035
> 
> 
> There's not much "mind" in the Suggestions.
> 
> 
> I have about four or five old sitcoms (70's-80's era) going on Auto Record Wish Lists. If I go in and look at Suggestions, it wants to record every sitcom ever made, it seems. I also record a 70's game show because a dear friend of mine was a contestant on a few episodes in 1978, and Suggestions thinks I'm a big game show fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like most TiVo owners, one of the first things I did was turn off the auto recording Suggestions. It still accumulates the lists, but I have to go in and look for them.



God forbid if it finds out if you like Cops.










I remember having suggestions on with my old D-TiVo and it recorded every Cops there was. Between the old Court TV and FX, local FOX my goodness, it was amazing how many episodes it would record.


My solution at the time was to give it a thumbs down. Eventually like most everyone else I found suggestions not to helpful and I had so much stuff I picked on my own it was unnecessary.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15437460
> 
> 
> No apology necessary. I do it all the time, probably more then anyone else.
> 
> 
> As far as selling things goes on the web, yes that can be difficult to start. You need to "establish" yourself on the net, like in ebay where you get feedback and then more people buy from you.
> 
> 
> The wife and I have "AntiqueParrot" on ebay and we never had problems selling stuff because she new how to present the items, and developed our reputation. 100% positive feedback. We haven't sold anything however in quite some time.
> 
> 
> I have Vista on my Mac and while it asked me to establish a password, I didn't have to. But once you do I think you're stuck.
> 
> 
> Back on topic with your televisions, I think Inundated probably has sets like that laying around his house. He's a very high tech person but he doesn't like to replace it if it ain't broke. You don't know how long I nagged him into buying a HDTV. I tried embarrassing him. I tried everything. Finally he broke down (nothing to do with me) and bought one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: One thing I didn't touch on. Yes you can buy programs and install them but most of the time now you can download them from the internet. However in your case with dial up, lord knows how long that would take. You can even purchase Vista on line but an install via dial up I think would be impossible.
> 
> 
> Almost all new programs will need to access the internet from time to time to update. Take your anti virus. I update mine daily automatically through the web. Is that necessary? Yes, because new virus and malware are developed daily. If you're not updating daily, you should. And those suggestions toby10 gave you for software are all good suggestions. I also recommend downloading free Zone Alarm and turning off your Windows firewall. www.downloads.com . You can get all that stuff there. Free. And you can test your security here .



Thanks all for your insight, ya know I do keep some of this in mind either as a learning experience, a few things I may follow through, although by the time that happens all this information will be obsolete!










I do run a Zone alarm, but it no longer supports updates on my system, I would rather I just download the update instead of the machine installing it at will, therefore when I need to reformat it's all back to square one










I tend to run things to the ground, but after all it won't be my children or grandchildren inherating this 'landfill' of obsolete technology, so I really shouldn't care.







... if it works though why fix it?? I like my older PC systems better than this new one, & I really think it's the OS itself that is putting a bad taste in my mouth.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15436897
> 
> 
> That's just one of many reasons why I don't like Tivo. It's too "1984" "Big Brother"-ish to have a machine with a mind of its own _think_ and record shows for me. I don't want some machine tracking what I watch with a mind of its own.



I think my PC has days like that too! Reason why I like to be 'disconnected' most of the time. All the errant information that is availble online about me, mispelled names, wrong addresses, ect, but that is a good thing!


----------



## Bismarck440

Am I the only one that dislikes this black 'piano' finish that is on most all frames of the newer TV's??


This may look good out of the box, but just from handling this, it looks awful in a short time... this had to be an idea in design from a woman







... probably the same person that made a decision to paint telephones.










Understand this was a Samsung thing & everyone followed suit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15448972
> 
> 
> Am I the only one that dislikes this black 'piano' finish that is on most all frames of the newer TV's??
> 
> 
> This may look good out of the box, but just from handling this, it looks awful in a short time... this had to be an idea in design from a woman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... probably the same person that made a decision to paint telephones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understand this was a Samsung thing & everyone followed suit.



Black in electronics is making a come back for some time now. If you think back everything was black. Then silver came into play. Now it's gloss black.


Personally, I like the looks but I don't like the fact that dust shows up on it so easily. When you have 10 birds all the hepa filters in the world don't help much.


Birds are very dusty. Specially my cockatoo. You should see HIS room.










Another suggestion: Pledge dusting towels. I keep them right on my entertainment center.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15449042
> 
> 
> Black in electronics is making a come back for some time now. If you think back everything was black. Then silver came into play. Now it's gloss black.
> 
> 
> Personally, I like the looks but I don't like the fact that dust shows up on it so easily. When you have 10 birds all the hepa filters in the world don't help much.
> 
> 
> Birds are very dusty. Specially my cockatoo. You should see HIS room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another suggestion: Pledge dusting towels. I keep them right on my entertainment center.



Oh, not against black but the gloss finish shows every fingerprint & is prone to minute scratched EVERY time that it is handled.... I'm debating on that the next trend is, just on principle alone, I would wait till the next trend comes out (Unless it is white)... the gloss black is plain UGLY!. Plus the gloss frame produces a nasty glare!


My prefrences was the charcoal grey or dark silver &/or the satin black.


Then again there is my Pioneer SX3700 that has walnut slab sides & a brushed chrome front panel!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15447181
> 
> 
> God forbid if it finds out if you like Cops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember having suggestions on with my old D-TiVo and it recorded every Cops there was. Between the old Court TV and FX, local FOX my goodness, it was amazing how many episodes it would record.
> 
> 
> My solution at the time was to give it a thumbs down. Eventually like most everyone else I found suggestions not to helpful and I had so much stuff I picked on my own it was unnecessary.



Out of control, much like Junk mail.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15446075
> 
> 
> Hey, congrats on the upgrade. Don't forget you can still add an additional 500gb with an eSATA and if you have a wireless network, your computer can be available as well.
> 
> 
> Their is no evidence that FXHD is being added. This is wishful thinking and speculation. I truly wish it was being added it's one of my favorites.
> 
> 
> In my "research" of how TW adds HD channels, FX does not appear to be one of the channels they add on until after SDV and then I don't know how much longer afterwards.
> 
> 
> I see it's available on the Columbus line up.



And it will be on the TWC Akron lineup sometime in February or March.
















Once SDV gets past the infomercial tier, the channels should start lighting up. So far it works. If you tune to 185 or above, they look like regular channels. There really isn't anything different about their appearance. However, the only thing I've noticed is that boot time takes much longer now. It took close to 10 minutes for the OCAP box to boot and the 8300HD is not far behind.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15446191
> 
> 
> I'm wondering how come nickdawg didn't comment on my suggestion that his box was updating, and that was probably why it went out on him.



I don't think it updated, because the box shuts off and goes through a reboot when it updates. When these channels went dark, it just blacked out, but regular channels(404, 405, 251, 329, etc) still worked. Plus we're talking about TWC here. Like they would ever upgrade this. It appears to be the exact same buggy software that plagued the DVR I had a year ago.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15447035
> 
> 
> There's not much "mind" in the Suggestions.
> 
> 
> I have about four or five old sitcoms (70's-80's era) going on Auto Record Wish Lists. If I go in and look at Suggestions, it wants to record every sitcom ever made, it seems. I also record a 70's game show because a dear friend of mine was a contestant on a few episodes in 1978, and Suggestions thinks I'm a big game show fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like most TiVo owners, one of the first things I did was turn off the auto recording Suggestions. It still accumulates the lists, but I have to go in and look for them.



It's a good thing that can be shut off. Other than issues I mentioned before, I'd be afraid of hard drive wear if it's recording "suggested" shows when it's not recording your shows. I've noticed with the 8300HD that if the box is turned off and not recording or inactive, the hard drives actually shut down to reduce wear. It even says in the instruction manual(which I doubt many people even have) that you're supposed to shut the 8300HD off when you shut the TV off so the disk shuts off. I notice it when I turn it on, there's a "computer starting" sound. How about Tivo? Do they say anything about turning it off?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15448972
> 
> 
> Am I the only one that dislikes this black 'piano' finish that is on most all frames of the newer TV's??
> 
> 
> This may look good out of the box, but just from handling this, it looks awful in a short time... this had to be an idea in design from a woman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... probably the same person that made a decision to paint telephones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understand this was a Samsung thing & everyone followed suit.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15449042
> 
> 
> Black in electronics is making a come back for some time now. If you think back everything was black. Then silver came into play. Now it's gloss black.
> 
> 
> Personally, I like the looks but I don't like the fact that dust shows up on it so easily. When you have 10 birds all the hepa filters in the world don't help much.
> 
> 
> Birds are very dusty. Specially my cockatoo. You should see HIS room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another suggestion: Pledge dusting towels. I keep them right on my entertainment center.



I like the finishes. Only thing I don't like is when it gets dusty or there's smudges.



































On the other had, I do love silver. My 8300HD and surround sound receiver are silver along with the speakers. The TV is gloss black with silver around the edges. DVD player is from 2001, so it's older and more of a charcoal color. Interestingly, it matches the metal frame of my TV stand.







I love it, the glass shelf TV stand, the glossy black TV, the big screen. It's a PITA to keep clean though. That's a good idea, I'm gonna have to go get some more Pledge towels and keep them by the TV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15449747
> 
> 
> It's a good thing that can be shut off. Other than issues I mentioned before, I'd be afraid of hard drive wear if it's recording "suggested" shows when it's not recording your shows. I've noticed with the 8300HD that if the box is turned off and not recording or inactive, the hard drives actually shut down to reduce wear. It even says in the instruction manual(which I doubt many people even have) that you're supposed to shut the 8300HD off when you shut the TV off so the disk shuts off. I notice it when I turn it on, there's a "computer starting" sound. How about Tivo? Do they say anything about turning it off?



nickdawg, every DVR constantly records. When you watch something "live" it is still a delay from being recorded. I'll bet Inundated's S2 has been plugged in for years now. Heck my S3 has been plugged in and on for two years.


You can't really shut the SA 8300 off it's always on even if the light isn't on. That's how it records when it's off. Do you hear it start up at the start of a recording?


TiVo has a stand by mode, but really it's on just like the SA 8300. I've never put it on stand by. But from what I read everybody says it's still on so I don't know if the hard drive turns off or not. My understanding is it really doesn't.


Turn it on sometime and hit the play button. Is the green line there with recording?


----------



## Chris Myers

I live in Copley and am planning to switch from TWC to Dish. I'd like to try getting my HD locals OTA with indoor antennas. To use DVR effectively, I'd like to avoid the need to adjust the antenna for different stations. From what I've been able to find online, all the Cleveland channels I care about (3,5,8,19,25,43) are in the Parma farm, 18.5 to 22.2 miles distant and within 5 degrees on the compass.


Any suggestions for an indoor antenna that is meeting similar requirements for other users? (I did search the thread but didn't come up with anything concrete.)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15449950
> 
> 
> nickdawg, every DVR constantly records. When you watch something "live" it is still a delay from being recorded. I'll bet Inundated's S2 has been plugged in for years now. Heck my S3 has been plugged in and on for two years.



Yes, you're right...the S2 has been on all the time since I bought it, which I believe was in September 2003. Wow! It's been in service for over 5 years. I've seen a glitch or two lately that makes me wonder if the hard drive is still OK, but nothing serious (some pixelation, but rare). It's been running full time all that time.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Myers* /forum/post/15452531
> 
> 
> I live in Copley and am planning to switch from TWC to Dish. I'd like to try getting my HD locals OTA with indoor antennas. To use DVR effectively, I'd like to avoid the need to adjust the antenna for different stations. From what I've been able to find online, all the Cleveland channels I care about (3,5,8,19,25,43) are in the Parma farm, 18.5 to 22.2 miles distant and within 5 degrees on the compass.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for an indoor antenna that is meeting similar requirements for other users? (I did search the thread but didn't come up with anything concrete.)



I'm not sure I've seen the "Holy Grail" of indoor antennas. But you shouldn't have too much trouble...you're not that far from me, and about the same distance from the antenna farm stations.


A couple of words of advice:


First, if you have something already, indoor antenna-wise, just try it and see. Do you have a digital OTA tuner anywhere now, on a TV or even a CECB ("Coupon Eligible Converter Box")?


The "Silver Sensor", a highly directional but well-designed non-amplified antenna might be a good choice, or even an outdoor 2-bay or 4-bay UHF antenna mounted in an attic or something. But trying other options first could save you $ if you're concerned about that.


But we're not entirely abandoning the VHF band in this market. WOIO-DT is staying on VHF 10. WJW-DT is moving to VHF 8 for digital on 2/17. There are Silver Sensor "clones" I've never tried, that do have VHF dipoles.


Most of the Cleveland locals are no problem for me down here near the Merriman Valley (but not in the Valley itself, higher terrain). 3 and 25 are not present at all here right now, since 3 is on DT 2 (BAD channel position analog, even worse for digital due to noise!) and 25 is on a low-power second-generation temporary 10,000 watt antenna.


Whenever the joint WKYC/WVIZ tower is finished, after 2/17/09 WKYC will mvoe to digital RF channel 17 (WDLI Canton will go dark analog-wise) and WVIZ will go full-power, and that means both should show up here.


Where are you in relation to Akron's own "antenna farm?" (WVPX/WEAO/etc.) That might shed light on some things, and some say the Akron stations have trouble reaching over Richfield due to terrain...which may or may not be blocking you in the other direction from Parma.


Also, a very important note...unless you just so happen to find the sweetest of sweet spots, indoor antennas may have to be nudged around if you're tuning between channels (see "directional antenna" above). Just a thought, since you're using a DVR...if you have any way to use an outdoor antenna, even a modest one, high up on your building if possible...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15453097
> 
> 
> Yes, you're right...the S2 has been on all the time since I bought it, which I believe was in September 2003. Wow! It's been in service for over 5 years. I've seen a glitch or two lately that makes me wonder if the hard drive is still OK, but nothing serious (some pixelation, but rare). It's been running full time all that time.



I see pixelation on digital and analog channels from time to time. I'm positive that it has nothing to do with my hard drive.


In comparison to what I had with the SA 8300 SARA the HD picture is so much better that I can say I never truly understood HD until I got rid of that thing. I thought a warped picture was common with HD broadcast.


Of course when I replaced my CRT Sony WEGA with my LG37 LCD I said the same thing too.


----------



## hookbill

There is a thread in this forum that deals strictly with antennas. I found the one I have in there and while it still doesn't pick up all channels (I have a Southwest Window) it does a better job then the first one I picked up at Rat Shack when I got the converter box. It's silver and my wife say's it looks like the star ship Enterprise.










I'd take a look at it for you and tell you the name but it's too early to disturb Tyler, and anyway just moving it a little bit can make such a difference!


Edit: I found it here . I paid the same price at Target. And make sure you get a UHF/VHF as our local channels broadcast on both VHF and UHF digitally.


----------



## JJkizak

The gloss black syndrome works like this: Never clean it and never touch it and it works fine.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15454146
> 
> 
> The gloss black syndrome works like this: Never clean it and never touch it and it works fine.
> 
> JJK




OK........................


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Myers* /forum/post/15452531
> 
> 
> I live in Copley and am planning to switch from TWC to Dish. I'd like to try getting my HD locals OTA with indoor antennas. To use DVR effectively, I'd like to avoid the need to adjust the antenna for different stations. From what I've been able to find online, all the Cleveland channels I care about (3,5,8,19,25,43) are in the Parma farm, 18.5 to 22.2 miles distant and within 5 degrees on the compass.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for an indoor antenna that is meeting similar requirements for other users? (I did search the thread but didn't come up with anything concrete.)



Chris, I would agree with Inundated's advice. I also live in Akron, near the valley. I use an indoor antenna similar to the Silver Sensor, but it also has rabbit ears attached to it for the VHF channels. It's called the Terk HDTVi. You will need some sort on VHF antenna after February if you would like to receive WOIO or WJW.


I would also like to add that the tuner also matters. The older tuners are usually crappier and don't perform as well. I purchased one in 2003, and it doesn't compare to the tuner that's built-in to my new HDTV. Last time I checked, the tuners were up to the 5th generation, and these are more capable of dealing with multipath (or ghosting) issues that you may notice on analog.


----------



## scnrfrq

Just curious - we in Erie County, PA have not even had our channel lineup realigned yet. First it was supposed to be last March, then August, then Dec. 18th, but still nothing. We have one pay-per-view movie channel, no VOD, not even the MLB Network that the whole world got on 1/1. We also only have a handful of HD channels.


I'm just wondering if we are the only "forgotten" area in all of TW's NE Ohio region. If anyone else still has this poor of a system, could you please chime in? I'd like to be able to point this out to TW (not like it'll do any good, of course!).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15456549
> 
> 
> Just curious - we in Erie County, PA have not even had our channel lineup realigned yet. First it was supposed to be last March, then August, then Dec. 18th, but still nothing. We have one pay-per-view movie channel, no VOD, not even the MLB Network that the whole world got on 1/1. We also only have a handful of HD channels.
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if we are the only "forgotten" area in all of TW's NE Ohio region. If anyone else still has this poor of a system, could you please chime in? I'd like to be able to point this out to TW (not like it'll do any good, of course!).



I hate to say this, but are you sure? One of the guys who post here, ErieMarty, is from that area and he seems to have the same lineup. He was just talking the other day about MLB network on 326 and he's right, that's where it is with the new lineup.


Oh, I just caught the part where you said no VOD. Are you using a moto box?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15456549
> 
> 
> Just curious - we in Erie County, PA have not even had our channel lineup realigned yet. First it was supposed to be last March, then August, then Dec. 18th, but still nothing. We have one pay-per-view movie channel, no VOD, not even the MLB Network that the whole world got on 1/1. We also only have a handful of HD channels.



Scrnfrq, are you living in an apartment complex that has it's own internal system with TW feeding it? Some complexes can have issues with bandwidth on their internal system.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15456712
> 
> 
> Scrnfrq, are you living in an apartment complex that has it's own internal system with TW feeding it? Some complexes can have issues with bandwidth on their internal system.



Huh? What in the world would that have to do with his cable lineup? I mean if they change the lineup wouldn't that be for everybody? How can he have a different lineup unless he's in another part of Erie County then ErieMarty and they never changed the lineup.


Apparently Customer Service is advising him that the change is coming. Also no on demand. That would make sense because on demand would have to be on the same channels.


I think.


----------



## hookbill

I just had a thought. I don't know if this will help him or not, but when the lineup change came through one of my TiVo's changed on it's own, the other one didn't. So it is possible to have two lineups at one time!


I had to run guided set up on my S3 and then when it came to picking my cable company I selected Time Warner Cleveland Digital Rebuild. That put my S3 on track.


Now I know he doesn't have a TiVo, or at least I don't think he does. scnrfrq, have you tried just rebooting your box or DVR? I can't believe they haven't completed the lineup change and I can believe that you hit some really dumb CSR's.


----------



## scnrfrq

Well, guys, it's real. Only the City of Erie has the new lineup, and they have for about a year. All the rest of Erie County is still stuck with the old Adelphia lineup. We have nothing new here at all, and people are really up in arms about it, but there's nothing we can do apparently. Even our Supervisors wouldn't answer my emails and get involved.


The last thing TW did was announce it would happen on 12/18. They even took out an ad in the paper 2 days before. They had it up on their info channel too, but pulled it the night before. But nothing was done, and we're STILL waiting for some kind of explanation. The TW reps are clueless.


----------



## nickdawg

Are you still getting UHD on 470? I remember you've said that UHD was still coming in without paying for the HDTV tier.


Well, that's a mistake. I called TWC about _getting_ UHD, since they finally have some programming worth watching







WWE repeats from USA/SCIFI, Psych, Monk, Becker, Burn Notice, L&O, etc). No way in hell am I missing this---in HD!! Those are all my favorite shows. Anyway, to get UHD, I had to buy the whole BS tier.














I just hope TWC adds the regular versions of these channels soon.


TWC has a deal with the Universal networks. There actually are TWC systems that have USA HD, SCIFI HD and CBNC HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15456949
> 
> 
> Well, guys, it's real. Only the City of Erie has the new lineup, and they have for about a year. All the rest of Erie County is still stuck with the old Adelphia lineup. We have nothing new here at all, and people are really up in arms about it, but there's nothing we can do apparently. Even our Supervisors wouldn't answer my emails and get involved.
> 
> 
> The last thing TW did was announce it would happen on 12/18. They even took out an ad in the paper 2 days before. They had it up on their info channel too, but pulled it the night before. But nothing was done, and we're STILL waiting for some kind of explanation. The TW reps are clueless.



I don't know what to tell you. Steve Fry is President of TWCNEO. You can email him at [email protected] .


You will get a response, make sure you put your phone number or account number so they can reach you. Fry won't contact you personally, but someone from his office or a manager in your area will. Tell him all the facts just like you did in the quoted post.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15456982
> 
> 
> Are you still getting UHD on 470? I remember you've said that UHD was still coming in without paying for the HDTV tier.
> 
> 
> Well, that's a mistake. I called TWC about _getting_ UHD, since they finally have some programming worth watching
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE repeats from USA/SCIFI, Psych, Monk, Becker, Burn Notice, L&O, etc). No way in hell am I missing this---in HD!! Those are all my favorite shows. Anyway, to get UHD, I had to buy the whole BS tier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just hope TWC adds the regular versions of these channels soon.
> 
> 
> TWC has a deal with the Universal networks. There actually are TWC systems that have USA HD, SCIFI HD and CBNC HD.



Heh heh, yes I still get it. I just checked!













































Cough up the 5 bucks, nickdawg.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15457182
> 
> 
> Heh heh, yes I still get it. I just checked!
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cough up the 5 bucks, nickdawg.



Actually, it should read: Cough up the *$6.95*, nickdawg.































I was disappointed I have to pay for *4* channels to get the one I want.


Hey, what's your TWC account #? I need to make a phone call!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15456949
> 
> 
> Well, guys, it's real. Only the City of Erie has the new lineup, and they have for about a year. All the rest of Erie County is still stuck with the old Adelphia lineup. We have nothing new here at all, and people are really up in arms about it, but there's nothing we can do apparently. Even our Supervisors wouldn't answer my emails and get involved.



If it means anything, I believe the city system is the legacy Time Warner system, and the county is former Adelphia.


----------



## Chris Myers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15453097
> 
> 
> First, if you have something already, indoor antenna-wise, just try it and see. Do you have a digital OTA tuner anywhere now, on a TV or even a CECB ("Coupon Eligible Converter Box")?



I have three HDTVs with integrated tuners, a 42" Panasonic plasma that is about three years old, a brand new 32" JVC, and a brand new 22" Insignia for the kids. So, I have places to test it out.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15453097
> 
> 
> Where are you in relation to Akron's own "antenna farm?" (WVPX/WEAO/etc.) That might shed light on some things, and some say the Akron stations have trouble reaching over Richfield due to terrain...which may or may not be blocking you in the other direction from Parma.



I'm a little less than 2 miles north of the WEAO tower. It's at bearing 215 degrees from me. Thanks for the terrific summary of the current situation on frequencies and towers for our market. I had found some of that info, but not all of it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15453097
> 
> 
> Also, a very important note...unless you just so happen to find the sweetest of sweet spots, indoor antennas may have to be nudged around if you're tuning between channels (see "directional antenna" above). Just a thought, since you're using a DVR...if you have any way to use an outdoor antenna, even a modest one, high up on your building if possible...



I had a rooftop yagi at a previous house in NW Akron that I diplexed with satellite quite successfully, but I only had one TV then.


My current house has a steeply pitched roof that I don't intend to climb on. I suppose that if I could hang an antenna from an eave or off the back of the house, it would be ok as long as I could figure out how to diplex it in. I notice that the new Dish receivers take two cables from the satellite dish, and I haven't done the research necessary to digest what that means for my installation. The house has RG-6 running to each room from a central location in the basement where all the utilities enter. I want to use that cabling in place.


Chris


----------



## ErieMarty

the city has pretty much the same lineup as everyone in NE Ohio..minus Locals and we also get Fox Pittsburgh..for all the squeeler/Pirates and Pens fans in NW PA..(but not in HD..which does upset me)....


The county was suppose to switch over to what the city gets back in the middle of December and TW Even put an Ad in our local paper the monday before telling everyone its going to happen on this date..later that week..and nothing has happened..


plus our last Local Station (WJET/ABC) to switch to HD is now over the Air in HD for at least a month and TW hasn't added it..I know a lot of Penn State fans were upset they couldn't get the Rose Bowl in HD ...


Thats the reason I post on this Cleveland Forum because what ever you guys get we should be getting in NW PA from Time Warner..


but it sucks for TW to make promises and not keep them or even update there news page on their web site for upcoming changes..its still says this and thats going to happen in the middle of December 2008


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15456763
> 
> 
> Huh? What in the world would that have to do with his cable lineup? I mean if they change the lineup wouldn't that be for everybody?



While it turned out to be something different in this case, there are some apartment complexes that have vestiges of old systems in place, with some channels sucked out by deletion/insertion filters and other channels inserted in their place. Sometimes this is because of bulk transmission arrangements; other times it's a workaround for older


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Myers* /forum/post/15458211
> 
> 
> I'm a little less than 2 miles north of the WEAO tower. It's at bearing 215 degrees from me. Thanks for the terrific summary of the current situation on frequencies and towers for our market. I had found some of that info, but not all of it.



I found that "ridge" one of our regulars keeps talking about, that he says prevents some folks north of Richfield from getting a good signal out of the Akron TV stations (WEAO, WVPX, and WDLI, which is digitally located around there despite being licensed to Canton).


The "highest point in Summit County" is clearly marked by a county sign on Ohio 176 in the northern part of Richfield, not far from the township border.


I don't know if that would get between you and Parma...I'm guessing not.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Myers* /forum/post/15458211
> 
> 
> My current house has a steeply pitched roof that I don't intend to climb on. I suppose that if I could hang an antenna from an eave or off the back of the house, it would be ok as long as I could figure out how to diplex it in.



See, that's my main concern about what you're doing here...the fact that you're hoping for uninterrupted signals for DVR recording of different channels at the same time.


I'm guessing that would be a crapshoot for an indoor antenna, at least one 20 miles or so out. You could get all the big signals, but could you find one placement that gets you all the channels, all the time, without breakup or having to move the antenna? If your indoor antenna is near your set, and you don't mind nudging it if the signals get out of whack, that's one thing. With a DVR, you won't be there to adjust.


Others who record stuff using OTA antennas are more than welcome to chime in with experience here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15458481
> 
> 
> but it sucks for TW to make promises and not keep them or even update there news page on their web site for upcoming changes..its still says this and thats going to happen in the middle of December 2008



I think I read somewhere that the old Adelphia system in the county up there was bandwidth-limited compared to the city's TWC system in Erie itself. This may be one reason, as the upgrade would take somewhat longer in the county if that was the case.


----------



## scnrfrq

Apparently Mr. Fry's address has been changed to [email protected] .


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15459698
> 
> 
> I found that "ridge" one of our regulars keeps talking about, that he says prevents some folks north of Richfield from getting a good signal out of the Akron TV stations (WEAO, WVPX, and WDLI, which is digitally located around there despite being licensed to Canton).
> 
> 
> The "highest point in Summit County" is clearly marked by a county sign on Ohio 176 in the northern part of Richfield, not far from the township border.
> 
> 
> I don't know if that would get between you and Parma...I'm guessing not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, that's my main concern about what you're doing here...the fact that you're hoping for uninterrupted signals for DVR recording of different channels at the same time.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that would be a crapshoot for an indoor antenna, at least one 20 miles or so out. You could get all the big signals, but could you find one placement that gets you all the channels, all the time, without breakup or having to move the antenna? If your indoor antenna is near your set, and you don't mind nudging it if the signals get out of whack, that's one thing. With a DVR, you won't be there to adjust.
> 
> 
> Others who record stuff using OTA antennas are more than welcome to chime in with experience here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I read somewhere that the old Adelphia system in the county up there was bandwidth-limited compared to the city's TWC system in Erie itself. This may be one reason, as the upgrade would take somewhat longer in the county if that was the case.



"Somewhat longer" is an understatement! They spent the last year rebuilding equipment in the whole county and were done in October. No excuse for not turning it by December.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15459828
> 
> 
> "Somewhat longer" is an understatement! They spent the last year rebuilding equipment in the whole county and were done in October. No excuse for not turning it by December.



Not A) being a cable company technical employee or B) having any technical knowledge about what it takes to do such upgrades, I can't echo your statement. How would I, or you, or anyone here know all the work that needs to be done between October and now?


Something must have come up. Things Happen. It's just TV here.


I was just pointing out that the rebuild in question wasn't needed in the city, which is why the county took longer. I wasn't saying the TWC folks should be given awards or medals.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15459782
> 
> 
> Apparently Mr. Fry's address has been changed to [email protected] .



That's correct, sorry, I just did it from memory.


I think sometimes my mind isn't quite as sharp as it was when I was younger. But then again most of the time when I was younger I was drunk.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15459882
> 
> 
> Not A) being a cable company technical employee or B) having any technical knowledge about what it takes to do such upgrades, I can't echo your statement. How would I, or you, or anyone here know all the work that needs to be done between October and now?
> 
> 
> Something must have come up. Things Happen. It's just TV here.
> 
> 
> I was just pointing out that the rebuild in question wasn't needed in the city, which is why the county took longer. I wasn't saying the TWC folks should be given awards or medals.



I don't blame him for being upset. Why should he not get everything everybody else is getting, he's paying for it.


If you pay for something you should get it! And if you don't pay for something, like let's say UHD and you do get it that's even better.


Right nickdawg?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15458481
> 
> 
> the city has pretty much the same lineup as everyone in NE Ohio..minus Locals and we also get Fox Pittsburgh..for all the squeeler/Pirates and Pens fans in NW PA..(but not in HD..which does upset me)....
> 
> 
> The county was suppose to switch over to what the city gets back in the middle of December and TW Even put an Ad in our local paper the monday before telling everyone its going to happen on this date..later that week..and nothing has happened..
> 
> 
> plus our last Local Station (WJET/ABC) to switch to HD is now over the Air in HD for at least a month and TW hasn't added it..I know a lot of Penn State fans were upset they couldn't get the Rose Bowl in HD ...
> 
> 
> Thats the reason I post on this Cleveland Forum because what ever you guys get we should be getting in NW PA from Time Warner..
> 
> 
> but it sucks for TW to make promises and not keep them or even update there news page on their web site for upcoming changes..its still says this and thats going to happen in the middle of December 2008



My In-laws are on the city system and I re-scanned their TV when I was visiting over New Years. THe only local HD content I could find was WICU on QAM 99.1 and WSEE on 99.2, as well as WQLN (I forget where that was.) I think WFXP, the FOX affiliate was in there too somewhere, but I can't be sure. However, they do get 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 25.1 and 25.2 out of Cleveland, which are much easier to find! WICU was carrying Jeopardy in SD (even with an HD bug) but we watched it on 5.1 in HD instead. They used to get 19.1 and 43.1 but those are gone now, as you mentioned some time ago.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15461630
> 
> 
> My In-laws are on the city system and I re-scanned their TV when I was visiting over New Years. THe only local HD content I could find was WICU on QAM 99.1 and WSEE on 99.2, as well as WQLN (I forget where that was.) I think WFXP, the FOX affiliate was in there too somewhere, but I can't be sure. However, they do get 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 25.1 and 25.2 out of Cleveland, which are much easier to find! WICU was carrying Jeopardy in SD (even with an HD bug) but we watched it on 5.1 in HD instead. They used to get 19.1 and 43.1 but those are gone now, as you mentioned some time ago.



Just curious. Were any of those non-Cleveland based channels CBS and a My Network channel?


I kind of doubt they got two FOX channels, but I could be wrong. If they do more power to them. And so long as they are getting CBS they should be grateful that they don't get WOIO.


----------



## Trip in VA

Is there any programming on 43-2? I've heard of a few Raycom stations adding "This TV," two replaced NBC WeatherPlus with it, but one non-NBC station replaced their "The Tube is gone" slide with it. I'm trying to keep my eyes open to make sure I know if it launches somewhere.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15461501
> 
> 
> I don't blame him for being upset. Why should he not get everything everybody else is getting, he's paying for it.



Did TWC raise the rates when it unveiled the new digital lineup down here?


Oh, wait, TWC and all cable companies raise rates every year.










Anyway, he's paying for digital cable service, not specifically for whatever channel lineup changes have been made, or whatever new digital channels he doesn't get now. "I'm paying for it" is too simplistic.


But turning it around, he is paying for the service in general, and if he's unhappy, by all means, he needs to revisit how happy he is with TWC.


I was mostly questioning the "there's no reason they couldn't" comment...there could well be a reason, and unless our OP works in the technical end of cable TV, he has no idea if that statement is right or not.


Turning it around again, I'm upset that TWC hasn't yet expanded its HD lineup, presumably because of the slow pace of the SDV rollout. But I'm not "paying for it" in regards to the new HD channels that we don't yet have. I'm "paying for" the channels we get now.


If at some point, I'm not happy about that value proposition, I'll consider moving off of TWC. But no amount of my yelling about it will make it come any faster, just as no amount of complaining by our OP in Erie County, PA will make the new digital lineup come on any faster.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15462716
> 
> 
> Is there any programming on 43-2? I've heard of a few Raycom stations adding "This TV," two replaced NBC WeatherPlus with it, but one non-NBC station replaced their "The Tube is gone" slide with it. I'm trying to keep my eyes open to make sure I know if it launches somewhere.



I'm not near an OTA tuner right now, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that 43-2 is still running the "Tube is gone" slide.


----------



## Trip in VA

I would bet so too, but if I were MGM I'd want This TV in markets like Cleveland before markets like Columbus GA and Lubbock TX.


- Trip


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## Inundated

A quck check of the OTA ATSC tuner on my HD set - and yes, WUAB-DT 43.2 is still running that (bleeping) slide.


Raycom is a screwed up company, but even more so, here.


I'd personally rather see RTN on 43.2, assuming that operation can get its act together and stay on the air. I believe Raycom does have some RTN affiliates as well.


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## Trip in VA

I only see one RTN affiliate owned by Raycom, assuming my search is accurate, and that's WSFA in Montgomery. And I doubt anyone's in any hurry to affiliate with RTN at this point.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15463231
> 
> 
> I only see one RTN affiliate owned by Raycom, assuming my search is accurate, and that's WSFA in Montgomery. And I doubt anyone's in any hurry to affiliate with RTN at this point.



OK, I saw a mention of Raycom in the list of RTN-carrying groups...didn't know it was a single station.


The RTN programming is much more appealing to me than This TV, which I saw down in Columbus shortly after it launched (WSYX-DT 6.2, I think it was, the Sinclair stations are merging it into their MyNetwork TV subchannels).


This TV looks like a lot of MGM movies no one wants to watch, but I'm not a big "classic movie" fan...and what ones I do like, I want to see on TCM and the like. And I bet it's sharing a lot of content with MGMHD, which just replaced the now-defunct Mojo HD on our TWC system.


This TV screams "MGM found a way to get money out of its shelved content" to me.


RTN has a lot of shows I'd watch ("Quincy", "Rockford Files", etc.). It could just be personal taste here.


But I do agree with your last comment...the horrible financial shape of RTN could well end up causing serious problems for it. And if they don't get that straightened out, they could well lose shows like those I mentioned, anyway.


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## Trip in VA

I agree with you on what This TV screams, but it has the original Outer Limits. That, by itself, is what makes me want it. Now. (I'm a huge fan)


I have RTN here and the only thing I watch on it is Battlestar Galactica. Everything else just doesn't appeal to me very much. It's a shame they pissed off CBS, because some of the CBS shows were worth watching. If they could have gotten the Twilight Zone, I'd have had it made.


RTN isn't in terrible financial shape now that it's separated from Equity, but Equity went out of their way to make sure Luken would have as much trouble as possible. I don't know if you heard, but RTN was off the air for a while yesterday. Here's an article about it: http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2009/01/05/daily.5/ 


WFLA in Tampa was due to launch RTN today. That's been pushed back as far as I can tell. And they were advertising it too.


- Trip


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## hookbill

The more Trip in VA writes the more I like that kid.


I just got out of the Toyota Dealership getting my oil changed. In their waiting area they have I'd say a 25-27" Crt television. No flat screen, and it's a Sharp.


I looked at the picture and my first thought was, they got to have a digital converter. Picture looked good. Not HD good but very good.


Then I saw a box and walked up to it. Direct TV.


I'm not surprised. It's just another example of how much better satellite is over cable. We get that washed out look on our locals from analog converted to digital.


I believe nickdawg has said that all the old analog channels are digital now in his area. I wonder if the locals are digital or upgraded analog?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15463354
> 
> 
> WFLA in Tampa was due to launch RTN today. That's been pushed back as far as I can tell. And they were advertising it too.



WTOV in Steubenville was supposed to launch RTN with the new year. I have no idea if it's back up after this weekend's little tiff.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15464422
> 
> 
> WTOV in Steubenville was supposed to launch RTN with the new year. I have no idea if it's back up after this weekend's little tiff.



WJAC, WTOV, and WCMH had all launched RTN on January 1. I think WCMH is back on the national feed now (it was a local radar for a while yesterday), but I have no information about the others.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15463683
> 
> 
> The more Trip in VA writes the more I like that kid.













Whenever I make it up to Cleveland (I have a friend in the area I plan to visit at some point in the distant future), there'll have to be some type of AVS Forum get-together. I'll bring a flame-retardant suit in case I sit next to nickdawg.










- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15464532
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever I make it up to Cleveland (I have a friend in the area I plan to visit at some point in the distant future), there'll have to be some type of AVS Forum get-together. I'll bring a flame-retardant suit in case I sit next to nickdawg.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh God, I can't imagine meeting nickdawg in person. He'd probably try and steal my wallet and report me to TW for getting Universal HD!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15463683
> 
> 
> The more Trip in VA writes the more I like that kid.
> 
> 
> I just got out of the Toyota Dealership getting my oil changed. In their waiting area they have I'd say a 25-27" Crt television. No flat screen, and it's a Sharp.
> 
> 
> I looked at the picture and my first thought was, they got to have a digital converter. Picture looked good. Not HD good but very good.
> 
> 
> Then I saw a box and walked up to it. Direct TV.
> 
> _I'm not surprised. It's just another example of how much better satellite is over cable. We get that washed out look on our locals from analog converted to digital.
> 
> 
> I believe nickdawg has said that all the old analog channels are digital now in his area. I wonder if the locals are digital or upgraded analog?_



WBNX and WJW look much better. And this is only because the way they used to be was unwatchable. WBNX has analog interference in the picture and WJW had a green shadow, you could especially see it to the right of the FOX 8 News bug. WOIO is still a nightmare. The place you can see it best is on _The Late Late Show w/ Craig Ferguson_. Try switching between 4 and 404. On SD, it looks like Craig is standing in front of a black curtain. On 404 HD you can actually see that Craig has a beautiful set in the background.


EDIT: They're not even showing the digital to analog conversion on SD anymore. I just flipped over to write this, and I see the current time and temperature of the 19 Action News bug. It is not there on WOIO HD. Maybe TWC is actually trying to *FIX* this problem?
























WKYC looks the worst of all, since it is an analog direct feed from the station and they're still showing the network analog feed







. Same with WEWS







.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15459828
> 
> 
> "Somewhat longer" is an understatement! They spent the last year rebuilding equipment in the whole county and were done in October. No excuse for not turning it by December.



Be happy they're rebuilding the system. This means that *most likely* your area will be getting Switched Digital Video and Digital Simulcast on the local and expanded basic tier. These old Adelphia, Comcast, whoever else systems are a mess. They don't have Navigator yet, or SDV. Many of these areas still have analog channels on the basic tier







. Be patient. Whenever TWC announces a date, it's not an exact date. This kind of thing happens anywhere. Let's say they're going to add some HD channels in February. That means they could be here in February, or in March. Or the last week of April for others!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15466932
> 
> 
> WBNX and WJW look much better. And this is only because the way they used to be was unwatchable. WBNX has analog interference in the picture and WJW had a green shadow, you could especially see it to the right of the FOX 8 News bug. WOIO is still a nightmare. The place you can see it best is on _The Late Late Show w/ Craig Ferguson_. Try switching between 4 and 404. On SD, it looks like Craig is standing in front of a black curtain. On 404 HD you can actually see that Craig has a beautiful set in the background.
> 
> 
> EDIT: They're not even showing the digital to analog conversion on SD anymore. I just flipped over to write this, and I see the current time and temperature of the 19 Action News bug. It is not there on WOIO HD. Maybe TWC is actually trying to *FIX* this problem?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WKYC looks the worst of all, since it is an analog direct feed from the station and they're still showing the network analog feed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Same with WEWS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



What the heck are you talking about? Now I agree about the Action 19 News bug but the fact is it's still digital converted. That means the analog signal is converted to digital, not vice versa. I clearly saw the sound change from PCM 48 to Dolby 2.0 on moving from WBNX to FOX 8 and to WOIO.


Since we are seeing an "upgrade to digital" from analog







the bug on 19 news makes sense. They are broadcasting on two different channels.


It does look horrible. It's always looked that way.


You said previously that you were getting digital feeds on all the old former analog channels. Now you never mentioned, to the best of my knowledge if the local channels (19, 5, 8, and 3) are converted or not.


And WBNX is still analog. They never did convert that one to digital. It's only on digital via cable in HD.


The digital broadcast of all these channels, OTA, is superior to what we get on cable.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15467256
> 
> 
> What the heck are you talking about? Now I agree about the Action 19 News bug but the fact is it's still digital converted. That means the analog signal is converted to digital, not vice versa. I clearly saw the sound change from PCM 48 to Dolby 2.0 on moving from WBNX to FOX 8 and to WOIO.
> 
> 
> Since we are seeing an "upgrade to digital" from analog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the bug on 19 news makes sense. They are broadcasting on two different channels.
> 
> 
> It does look horrible. It's always looked that way.
> 
> 
> You said previously that you were getting digital feeds on all the old former analog channels. Now you never mentioned, to the best of my knowledge if the local channels (19, 5, 8, and 3) are converted or not.
> 
> 
> And WBNX is still analog. They never did convert that one to digital. It's only on digital via cable in HD.
> 
> 
> The digital broadcast of all these channels, OTA, is superior to what we get on cable.



WBNX-HD converted to SD

WJW-HD converted to SD

WNEO-HD converted to SD

WVIZ-HD converted to SD

WOIO- ?????

WDLI-SD digital OTA feed

WQHS, WOAC-No frakin clue. Either analog or digital SD. My bet is on analog.

WVPX-Analog, since DT feed isn't on the air yet.


WKYC-direct fiber feed, showing NBC network analog feed

WEWS-direct fiber feed, showing ABC network analog feed


Since you are on one of the systems that still puts channels through in analog, it can be harder to tell. But here, on the TV without a box, it is the same HD converted to SD channel. SO, regardless of whether it is digital (as in 2/0 audio) on the box or not, the channels may still be fed in digital.


WOIO has always looked horrible in "digital" here too. I was hoping that would change, but now I doubt it.


I hope "Basic Service" customers will realize that they can get a better picture for free with a converter box and an antenna. Then maybe more of these people will leave TWC and they can banish analog-only cable to hell(where it belongs). I've seen those crooks hawking their "get the local channels only" package on commercials.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15467476
> 
> 
> WBNX-HD converted to SD
> 
> WJW-HD converted to SD
> 
> WNEO-HD converted to SD
> 
> WVIZ-HD converted to SD
> 
> WOIO- ?????
> 
> WDLI-SD digital OTA feed
> 
> WQHS, WOAC-No frakin clue. Either analog or digital SD. My bet is on analog.
> 
> WVPX-Analog, since DT feed isn't on the air yet.
> 
> 
> WKYC-direct fiber feed, showing NBC network analog feed
> 
> WEWS-direct fiber feed, showing ABC network analog feed
> 
> 
> Since you are on one of the systems that still puts channels through in analog, it can be harder to tell. But here, on the TV without a box, it is the same HD converted to SD channel. SO, regardless of whether it is digital (as in 2/0 audio) on the box or not, the channels may still be fed in digital.
> 
> 
> WOIO has always looked horrible in "digital" here too. I was hoping that would change, but now I doubt it.
> 
> 
> I hope "Basic Service" customers will realize that they can get a better picture for free with a converter box and an antenna. Then maybe more of these people will leave TWC and they can banish analog-only cable to hell(where it belongs). I've seen those crooks hawking their "get the local channels only" package on commercials.



The bug on 19 news has the time and weather = analog OR analog converted to digital. The one that has no time and weather = digital or HD.


It's two seperate channels!!! On the TV in my birds room I don't see the bug with the time and weather. That's OTA 19.1.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15467600
> 
> 
> The bug on 19 news has the time and weather = analog OR analog converted to digital. The one that has no time and weather = digital or HD.
> 
> 
> It's two seperate channels!!! On the TV in my birds room I don't see the bug with the time and weather. That's OTA 19.1.



So on your TV with Time Warner you see a time/temperature bug on WOIO SD? That means you must also be getting the analog OTA version for SDTV. Since the bird's TV has an OTA converter, that's the digital version, 19.1. And I'll bet the TV with the OTA converter looks better than the SD cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15467808
> 
> 
> So on your TV with Time Warner you see a time/temperature bug on WOIO SD? That means you must also be getting the analog OTA version for SDTV. Since the bird's TV has an OTA converter, that's the digital version, 19.1. And I'll bet the TV with the OTA converter looks better than the SD cable.



Of course it does. But what I've been trying to tell you is the reason the picture looks so bad is because it is converted analog to digital. It's got to be the same where you live too. Now that may not apply to the other channels in your area, you say you have all digital and that you don't have analog channels but what I am telling you is your locals are converted analog.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15467873
> 
> 
> Of course it does. But what I've been trying to tell you is the reason the picture looks so bad is because it is converted analog to digital. It's got to be the same where you live too. Now that may not apply to the other channels in your area, you say you have all digital and that you don't have analog channels but what I am telling you is your locals are converted analog.



WBNX and WJW are not. They appear to be digital(from HD) converted to analog. Even on a TV with no box, WJW and WBNX look pretty damn good. WKYC and WEWS obviously converted analog. Dark backgrounds are not clear black like on WKYC HD, they appear gray and fuzzy. Those stupid black letterbox bars on NBC programming look more like "stupid charcoal letterbox bars".














WEWS is also not very pretty looking on SD, obviously converted analog.


But WJW and WBNX are a different story. The picture is clear and colors are bright. I've even been watching WJW in SD, rather than HD lately since FOX puts their bug in the far right corner, it is cut off on the SD channel. I've never seen the picture that good on FOX SD. I'd rather watch it just to lose the bug!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15468143
> 
> 
> WBNX and WJW are not. They appear to be digital(from HD) converted to analog. Even on a TV with no box, WJW and WBNX look pretty damn good. WKYC and WEWS obviously converted analog. Dark backgrounds are not clear black like on WKYC HD, they appear gray and fuzzy. Those stupid black letterbox bars on NBC programming look more like "stupid charcoal letterbox bars".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WEWS is also not very pretty looking on SD, obviously converted analog.
> 
> 
> But WJW and WBNX are a different story. The picture is clear and colors are bright. I've even been watching WJW in SD, rather than HD lately since FOX puts their bug in the far right corner, it is cut off on the SD channel. I've never seen the picture that good on FOX SD. I'd rather watch it just to lose the bug!



No, you are incorrect. I agree that what you see on a television going straight from the wall is better. But it's in analog, not digital! And it's not converted analog.


And if you think anything looks better in SD then in HD, I gotta question your capacity to really tell what looks good. I've seen WJW and there is no way possible it looks better in SD then in HD.


Been to the optometrist lately?









Nickdawg just because it's "digital" it doesn't mean better. When we had the 800's (analog) I felt the picture was better then the converted digital.


It only converts the picture to digital when it goes to a box. Why they do this I have no idea, but that is what they do. And WBNX is and always has shown as PCM 48 on sound. That my friend is analog.


So once again what I'm saying to you is this: These "digital" channels are converted from analog. At least the locals are. If you don't have a box you will get the analog channel. If you do you get analog converted.


It may work that you get analog converted with a digital television as well. But the proof is there, you said it yourself. The bug shows a different picture then the HD version. It's different because you are seeing the regular analog channel.


Did you see my comment about how good channel 5 looked on Direct TV? That is pure digital, no conversion. And that's how it looks on 5.1 as well. Converting IMHO is stupid and I don't know why TW does it, but they have never done it to WBNX. That's why you get a better picture.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15463683
> 
> 
> I looked at the picture and my first thought was, they got to have a digital converter. Picture looked good. Not HD good but very good.
> 
> 
> Then I saw a box and walked up to it. Direct TV.



Probably hooked up to TV via co-ax too. Woulda been even better with S-video or composite !!!


----------



## yespage

Glad I caught the conversation on RTN and related sub channels. Sounds interesting. Hopefully once WKYC moves to a non-exclusive receivable part of the electromagnetic spectrum, they'll get something neat on their sub-channel (losing the bandwidth doesn't faze me much with my analog screen







).


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15463683
> 
> 
> I looked at the picture and my first thought was, they got to have a digital converter. Picture looked good. Not HD good but very good.
> 
> 
> Then I saw a box and walked up to it. Direct TV.



I have no idea why anyone would have cable, that has the opportunity to have Sat TV. The main difference between Sat TV and a Digital Converter is widescreen and 5.1. On an _analog_ screen, the video looks just about the same... though the digital converter can show a little sharper image. Keeps me from getting an HDTV. The picture is certainly good enough (though admittedly no where as awesome as HD).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15472078
> 
> 
> Glad I caught the conversation on RTN and related sub channels. Sounds interesting. Hopefully once WKYC moves to a non-exclusive receivable part of the electromagnetic spectrum, they'll get something neat on their sub-channel (losing the bandwidth doesn't faze me much with my analog screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> I have no idea why anyone would have cable, that has the opportunity to have Sat TV. The main difference between Sat TV and a Digital Converter is widescreen and 5.1. On an _analog_ screen, the video looks just about the same... though the digital converter can show a little sharper image. Keeps me from getting an HDTV. The picture is certainly good enough (though admittedly no where as awesome as HD).



Number of reasons for me:

- Wooded lot

- Weather issues with Sat reception (condition seems to vary widely)

- Cable offers better package pricing for digital tv + hs internet + phone

- One provider to call if you have trouble


But I'd agree that Sat could well offer a bit better digital picture overall.


I'm not following your comment about widescreen & 5.1 in comparing Sat to Cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15472078
> 
> 
> Glad I caught the conversation on RTN and related sub channels. Sounds interesting. Hopefully once WKYC moves to a non-exclusive receivable part of the electromagnetic spectrum, they'll get something neat on their sub-channel (losing the bandwidth doesn't faze me much with my analog screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> I have no idea why anyone would have cable, that has the opportunity to have Sat TV. The main difference between Sat TV and a Digital Converter is widescreen and 5.1. On an _analog_ screen, the video looks just about the same... though the digital converter can show a little sharper image. Keeps me from getting an HDTV. The picture is certainly good enough (though admittedly no where as awesome as HD).



No question D*'s picture kicks butt. I would have had D* sometime ago if I had a line of sight and no wife.










I live in a heavily wooded area and there simply is no way I can get a signal unless I put it on a tree in my front yard. Wife says no.


I understand now they have some East facing satellites now, and if that is true I might be able to get a signal, but I've invested too much into my 2 TiVo's to break away from cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15472256
> 
> 
> Number of reasons for me:
> 
> - Wooded lot
> 
> - Weather issues with Sat reception (condition seems to vary widely)
> 
> - Cable offers better package pricing for digital tv + hs internet + phone
> 
> - One provider to call if you have trouble
> 
> 
> But I'd agree that Sat could well offer a bit better digital picture overall.
> 
> 
> I'm not following your comment about widescreen & 5.1 in comparing Sat to Cable.



Yeah kind of a mix message there. At one point he say's the main difference is wide screen, then he say's "not as awesome as HD" at the end.


I'll just follow up and say overall it's my experience that D*'s pq beats cable. I can't say about the HD. However I do remember seeing one local channel where D*'s transmission was horrible down in the Cincinnati area.


As I said earlier, digital doesn't always mean better. HD does.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15472256
> 
> 
> Number of reasons for me:
> 
> - Wooded lot



hookbill's story, which I believe is being adapted in Hollywood for movie, tells us the sorrow of that situation.










> Quote:
> - Weather issues with Sat reception (condition seems to vary widely)



Weather issues? I'd rather not get off-topic, but I'll just say that weather very rarely ever affects Sat TV reception, and I've been using it for 8 years now.


> Quote:
> - One provider to call if you have trouble



Funny... I haven't had trouble... probably because of the providers I choose.











> Quote:
> I'm not following your comment about widescreen & 5.1 in comparing Sat to Cable.



hookbill made a comment thinking that their TV was using a digital converter, I was assuming he meant OTA digital converter. My comment was meant to say that the difference between Sat Locals and OTA Digital locals was widescreen and 5.1 audio (when applicable).


----------



## dleising

Nonetheless, WOIO should not look anywhere as sh*tty as it does on analog and digital cable (excluding WOIO-HD 404).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15472351
> 
> 
> hookbill's story, which I believe is being adapted in Hollywood for movie, tells us the sorrow of that situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weather issues? I'd rather not get off-topic, but I'll just say that weather very rarely ever affects Sat TV reception, and I've been using it for 8 years now.
> 
> Funny... I haven't had trouble... probably because of the providers I choose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hookbill made a comment thinking that their TV was using a digital converter, I was assuming he meant OTA digital converter. My comment was meant to say that the difference between Sat Locals and OTA Digital locals was widescreen and 5.1 audio (when applicable).



Trees are indeed nice, but at a price!










Sat Weather: That's why I stated the weather issue varies greatly. I've heard many stories like yours with little if any problems, but I've heard just as many stories of people having regular ongoing issues with rain/snow/thunderstorms creating regular outages.


In four + years of WOW cable packaged use (digital tv + hs internet + two phone lines) I've called them twice. I run my biz out of my home so reliability is crucial.







So much so that I put off using any VOIP service until I was convinced that the newer generation VOIP modems could handle FAX transmission and reception reliably.


You mean Sat does not provide the locals in widescreen and the associated 5.1?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15472431
> 
> 
> Trees are indeed nice, but at a price!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sat Weather: That's why I stated the weather issue varies greatly. I've heard many stories like yours with little if any problems, but I've heard just as many stories of people having regular ongoing issues with rain/snow/thunderstorms creating regular outages.
> 
> 
> In four + years of WOW cable packaged use (digital tv + hs internet + two phone lines) I've called them twice. I run my biz out of my home so reliability is crucial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much so that I put off using any VOIP service until I was convinced that the newer generation VOIP modems could handle FAX transmission and reception reliably.
> 
> 
> You mean Sat does not provide the locals in widescreen and the associated 5.1?



I've said this before, but I lived in Northern Kentucky and it seems to me they have many, many more thunderstorms then we have. My experience with that and D* was that yes, from time to time there would be an outage but not one lasted more then 15 minutes and the amount of times it happened was not as high as everyone thinks.


Satellite does provide widescreen and Dolby 5.1.

*hookbill made a comment thinking that their TV was using a digital converter, I was assuming he meant OTA digital converter. My comment was meant to say that the difference between Sat Locals and OTA Digital locals was widescreen and 5.1 audio (when applicable).

*


I have one television with the converter and that's in the birds room. I hit a 86 signal on WJW today, best I ever got.










The other mention of conversion had to do with analog to digital with TWC. And since Toby10 has WOW, I have no idea what his picture looks like. He may be getting all digital.


And to wrap up everything else, dleising, you are absolutely right. The picture is unacceptable for WOIO SD. I watch everything on the HD channel.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15472592
> 
> 
> I've said this before, but I lived in Northern Kentucky and it seems to me they have many, many more thunderstorms then we have. My experience with that and D* was that yes, from time to time there would be an outage but not one lasted more then 15 minutes and the amount of times it happened was not as high as everyone thinks.
> 
> 
> Satellite does provide widescreen and Dolby 5.1.............
> 
> 
> The other mention of conversion had to do with analog to digital with TWC. And since Toby10 has WOW, I have no idea what his picture looks like. He may be getting all digital.............



Yeah, YMMV greatly with weather related Sat reception.










I'm guessing he isn't getting the locals in wide + 5.1 via Sat.


I dunno about WOW being all digital now. I know they had some intermittent issues in the lower tier analogs a few weeks back (as ajstan & myself mentioned here). WOW did send out a notice that there may be intermittent issues in this tier while they performed some "system upgrade".


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15461699
> 
> 
> Just curious. Were any of those non-Cleveland based channels CBS and a My Network channel?
> 
> 
> I kind of doubt they got two FOX channels, but I could be wrong. If they do more power to them. And so long as they are getting CBS they should be grateful that they don't get WOIO.



Erie's WSEE is CBS. I don't remember seeing a "My Network Channel". I'm certain there's nothing broadcasting in Erie, unless it is a digital sub-channel.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15472815
> 
> 
> Yeah, YMMV greatly with weather related Sat reception.



I believe outages because of "weather" is much more dependent on how reliable of a dish install was done rather than the dish / technology itself. The one funny thing about dish outages in bad weather (it is my 5 minute severe weather warning system







) is that the signal is lost a little before the storm comes and little before the storm is gone. It could be hailing outside, but my signal has come back when the line of sight improves.



> Quote:
> I'm guessing he isn't getting the locals in wide + 5.1 via Sat.



Naw... just the regular locals on Dish Network.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15473105
> 
> 
> I believe outages because of "weather" is much more dependent on how reliable of a dish install was done rather than the dish / technology itself. The one funny thing about dish outages in bad weather (it is my 5 minute severe weather warning system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) is that the signal is lost a little before the storm comes and little before the storm is gone. It could be hailing outside, but my signal has come back when the line of sight improves.
> 
> 
> Naw... just the regular locals on Dish Network.



Yes, I agree. It's weird how it will go out just before it hits and come back on while it's hitting. However I never experienced it going out after the storm.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15473105
> 
> 
> I believe outages because of "weather" is much more dependent on how reliable of a dish install was done rather than the dish / technology itself. The one funny thing about dish outages in bad weather (it is my 5 minute severe weather warning system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) is that the signal is lost a little before the storm comes and little before the storm is gone. It could be hailing outside, but my signal has come back when the line of sight improves.
> 
> 
> Naw... just the regular locals on Dish Network.



I'm sure a proper installation is a big factor. Having no personal experience with Sat, I can only relay what others have told me.


You can blame the mechanic or a bad car part, but it matters little if my car won't run.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15473334
> 
> 
> I'm sure a proper installation is a big factor. Having no personal experience with Sat, I can only relay what others have told me.
> 
> 
> You can blame the mechanic or a bad car part, but it matters little if my car won't run.



Toby10 - You're kind of saying two things here. On a response to my post you say YMMV, which I can agree with, yet here you're saying "this is what I've heard."


I can't say for certain, but I'm willing to bet most of what you "heard" is on the internet. And the problem with the internet is 90% of the time you hear people complain. Very rarely do you hear someone say, "hey this works great." It's human nature.


Two other good examples of this are TiVo and Vonage. If you go to the TiVo Forum, specially the S3 thread you might think that TiVo is a complete piece of garbage by all the negative comments. Fact is that the majority of people rarely have any problems with their TiVo. People have their expectations set to high. They want the darn thing to serve them breakfast in bed!










Same thing with Vonage. Had I found the Vonage Forum before purchasing I'd never have bought it. I'd still be paying 70.00 a month for phone service.


In all the time I had D* and D-TiVo I never had to have a service call. I can't say the same about cable.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15473737
> 
> 
> Toby10 - You're kind of saying two things here. On a response to my post you say YMMV, which I can agree with, yet here you're saying "this is what I've heard."
> 
> 
> I can't say for certain, but I'm willing to bet most of what you "heard" is on the internet. And the problem with the internet is 90% of the time you hear people complain. Very rarely do you hear someone say, "hey this works great." It's human nature......



No, this is from actually speaking to people about AV, TV's, service providers, etc... over the years.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15473826
> 
> 
> No, this is from actually speaking to people about AV, TV's, service providers, etc... over the years.



Well, what they said can be true for their cases, but including back when I was a kid at home, I've got about 20 years of dish experience, going back to C-band. So from Primestar, Directv to Dish Network being installed for my family or myself at three different cities, I have never had a problem with reception because of weather, except in the case of a torrential downpours or if there is enough wet snow on the dish, which is fix by brushing the snow off the dish.


If people are having an issue it is most probably due to a poor installation job, not the equipment. I only take issue with this because of cable propaganda in previous commercials talking about "crummy reception" on the Sat dish.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15474250
> 
> 
> Well, what they said can be true for their cases, but including back when I was a kid at home, I've got about 20 years of dish experience, going back to C-band. So from Primestar, Directv to Dish Network being installed for my family or myself at three different cities, I have never had a problem with reception because of weather, except in the case of a torrential downpours or if there is enough wet snow on the dish, which is fix by brushing the snow off the dish.
> 
> 
> If people are having an issue it is most probably due to a poor installation job, not the equipment. I only take issue with this because of cable propaganda in previous commercials talking about "crummy reception" on the Sat dish.



yespage, have you tried spraying pam on your dish? That's right, the no stick spray.


It may keep you from climbing on your roof. I don't know if it really works.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15474250
> 
> 
> Well, what they said can be true for their cases, but including back when I was a kid at home, I've got about 20 years of dish experience, going back to C-band. So from Primestar, Directv to Dish Network being installed for my family or myself at three different cities, I have never had a problem with reception because of weather, except in the case of a torrential downpours or if there is enough wet snow on the dish, which is fix by brushing the snow off the dish.
> 
> 
> If people are having an issue it is most probably due to a poor installation job, not the equipment. I only take issue with this because of cable propaganda in previous commercials talking about "crummy reception" on the Sat dish.



And....of course.....Sat advertising would never stoop to such measures.










Yeah, I do remember those big old 9 foot sat dishes. Our neighbor had one and was out there brooming it off in the winter. It didn't help that we were in the snow belt.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15474391
> 
> 
> yespage, have you tried spraying pam on your dish? That's right, the no stick spray.
> 
> 
> It may keep you from climbing on your roof. I don't know if it really works.



I'd be hesitant to spray anything on the dish. In the rare instances when I've needed to clear the dish off, I can reach the dish via a small step ladder and a broom. *yespage waits for T-Fal or Caphalon to come out with a non-stick Sat dish*











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15474392
> 
> 
> And....of course.....Sat advertising would never stoop to such measures.



Well, seeing that Sat TV is superior in almost any single way to Cable... they don't really need to. Dish and Directv will take jabs at each other regarding who has the most channels in "HD", but that is about it. I just wanted to clear up any misconception that Satellite dishes had reception issues when installed properly.



> Quote:
> Yeah, I do remember those big old 9 foot sat dishes. Our neighbor had one and was out there brooming it off in the winter. It didn't help that we were in the snow belt.



Oh man, I remember being able to watch the wild feeds of so many things like the Indy 500, hockey, baseball, football games (sometimes without even needing to listen to the announcers) or watching shows (like Star Trek TNG) well before they aired on live television. Those were the days!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15474845
> 
> 
> 
> Well, seeing that Sat TV is superior in almost any single way to Cable... they don't really need to. Dish and Directv will take jabs at each other regarding who has the most channels in "HD", but that is about it. I just wanted to clear up any misconception that Satellite dishes had reception issues when installed properly.



Both Direct TV and Dish advertise saying to dump the cable company. They focus on the high cost and show lower cost comparisons.


However as pointed out previously by Toby10 they can't offer phone service, I think D* offers some type of internet but I don't know much about it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15474845
> 
> 
> Oh man, I remember being able to watch the wild feeds of so many things like the Indy 500, hockey, baseball, football games (sometimes without even needing to listen to the announcers) or watching shows (like Star Trek TNG) well before they aired on live television. Those were the days!



What I remember about that was being able to hear the announcers during commercials. That was fun, they'd say all kinds of stuff to each other or the guys in the both.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15472844
> 
> 
> Erie's WSEE is CBS. I don't remember seeing a "My Network Channel". I'm certain there's nothing broadcasting in Erie, unless it is a digital sub-channel.



I live in Erie 35.1 is WSEE(CBS Programming)

35.2 is WBEP(CW+ Programming

35.3 is WICU(NBC Programming)


----------



## nickdawg

What are we discussing today? Satellite. Counselor, put me on the stand. I'm ready to testify AGAINST satellite!







What cable says about satellite going out is 99.9% true. What the satellite companies say about it almost never going out, is 98% FALSE. It's not installation. A few years back, I had a satellite professionally installed, but I still had reception problems. Rain, thick clouds, snow. Especially snow. When snow builds up on that damn thing, the TV is pixelated. You know what was MORE reliable, the old antenna on my roof.







I couldn't wait for that damn contract to be over with D*. That itself should have been the biggest indicator that they suck, they force you in for a year! After that, I was so excited when the Time Warner installer came. About a week later, I was watching TV on a Saturday afternoon. It gets cloudy and starts raining. HUGE thunderstorm. But my TV was still on. I could've cried then, it was so great!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15477735
> 
> 
> What are we discussing today? Satellite. Counselor, put me on the stand. I'm ready to testify AGAINST satellite!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What cable says about satellite going out is 99.9% true. What the satellite companies say about it almost never going out, is 98% FALSE. It's not installation. A few years back, I had a satellite professionally installed, but I still had reception problems. Rain, thick clouds, snow. Especially snow. When snow builds up on that damn thing, the TV is pixelated. You know what was MORE reliable, the old antenna on my roof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't wait for that damn contract to be over with D*. That itself should have been the biggest indicator that they suck, they force you in for a year! After that, I was so excited when the Time Warner installer came. About a week later, I was watching TV on a Saturday afternoon. It gets cloudy and starts raining. HUGE thunderstorm. But my TV was still on. I could've cried then, it was so great!!



The quoted text above is the experience of nickdawg. Please take this into consideration if you're thinking about going with satellite. Everything he said is contrary to what I say about it but what else is new?


That's life in the Bizarro world. What can I say?


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15477735
> 
> 
> What are we discussing today? Satellite. Counselor, put me on the stand. I'm ready to testify AGAINST satellite!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What cable says about satellite going out is 99.9% true. What the satellite companies say about it almost never going out, is 98% FALSE. It's not installation. A few years back, I had a satellite professionally installed, but I still had reception problems. Rain, thick clouds, snow. Especially snow. When snow builds up on that damn thing, the TV is pixelated. You know what was MORE reliable, the old antenna on my roof.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't wait for that damn contract to be over with D*. That itself should have been the biggest indicator that they suck, they force you in for a year! After that, I was so excited when the Time Warner installer came. About a week later, I was watching TV on a Saturday afternoon. It gets cloudy and starts raining. HUGE thunderstorm. But my TV was still on. I could've cried then, it was so great!!



If "thick clouds" made your satellite go out, I would say it wasn't installed properly. I'd say I have 15 minutes of downtime a year with D* and it's usually when a tornado-inducing green-sky squall line is moving through. In which case I'm usually more fascinated by the weather or thinking about running to the basement, not watching Oprah.










Snow usually slides right off my dish, never had a problem with that. They make heaters for the dishes if it's a chronic problem.


... and of course the year contract isn't because "they suck", it's to offset the cost of installation and hardware.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15478315
> 
> 
> The quoted text above is the experience of nickdawg. Please take this into consideration if you're thinking about going with satellite. Everything he said is contrary to what I say about it but what else is new?
> 
> 
> That's life in the Bizarro world. What can I say?



Where did *you* have satellite? The Bizarro world? Yes, take my warning into consideration.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15478643
> 
> 
> Where did *you* have satellite? The Bizarro world? Yes, take my warning into consideration.



Unlike you nickdawg I read the post prior to commenting. Now if you go back a bit, not even that much, you will see me discussing about my experience with satellite.


----------



## SteveC

I've had DirecTV for a little over a year and have only had any kind of signal loss on two occasions. Both times it was due to extremely heavy rain that sounded like it was about ready to come through my roof. Both times the only channels that went out were the new HD channels - and only for the couple minutes that it took for the heavy stuff to pass. I was able to flip over to the non-HD version of the channel and continue watching. I think the larger oval dish that they install now(required for the new HD channels) is a great improvement over the older 18" pizza pan dishes. I had way more issues when I had cable. Many were intermittent problems and very frustrating to solve because they never seemed to occur when the service guy shows up three or four days after you called in the problem. I don't miss cable one bit. Absolutely no regrets on switching to DirecTV. Just my two cents.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15479032
> 
> 
> Unlike you nickdawg I read the post prior to commenting. Now if you go back a bit, not even that much, you will see me discussing about my experience with satellite.



Well, you have to admit, northern Kentucky is a *bit* bizarre.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15482399
> 
> 
> Well, you have to admit, northern Kentucky is a *bit* bizarre.



Just because they have some strange names, like Big Bone Park, and Big Lick Park, Turkeyfoot Blvd. doesn't make it strange!










It's actually just an extension of Cincinnati, where they love that God awful Cincinnati style chili. And if someone doesn't understand what you say they say, "Please?" First time I heard it I didn't know what the heck they were talking about. When I worked at Citi I use to tell them that people in other parts of the country may not know what that means in the context they use it.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15482515
> 
> 
> Just because they have some strange names, like Big Bone Park, and Big Lick Park, Turkeyfoot Blvd. doesn't make it strange!



Combine those, Hookbill, & you've got it right: BIG BONE LICK State Park!!(where the buffalo roam by the way)


----------



## yespage

Well, there is Turkeyfoot Road in Akron, Licking county in central Ohio, so Ohio isn't immune to weird names. Of course, Kentucky has AiG's Creationist Museum, which counts as at least 1000 negative points.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15477735
> 
> 
> What are we discussing today? Satellite. Counselor, put me on the stand. I'm ready to testify AGAINST satellite!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What cable says about satellite going out is 99.9% true. What the satellite companies say about it almost never going out, is 98% FALSE. It's not installation. A few years back, I had a satellite professionally installed, but I still had reception problems.



Unless you can tell us how good your reception was (percentage) during sunny days verses the reception percentage was on rainy days, you have little to defend that the dish was installed properly. Now, if you had near perfect reception on sunny days and terrible reception on cloudy days, then you'd have an argument, but you have no data to support your conclusion that it was the dish and not the installation.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15477735
> 
> 
> A few years back, I had a satellite professionally installed, but I still had reception problems.



Chances are the installer was wise to your act Nickdawg and set your dish off-kilter on purpose.

I've had D* service for nearly 10 years beginning with the 18" round dish and now with the oversize AT-9 (D*'s first dish to include digital locals). There ARE outages. Total time for the year maybe 5 minutes tops. It happens when the tallest thunderheads are moving across the line of sight thousands of feet in the air miles & miles away (this is the reason why the local weather is not always at it's worst when the outage takes place).

I do a bit of A/V home theater installation on the side and have seen the grainy, greyed out sub-standard SD TW provided picture that many people are viewing. It's amazing what people will accept as their reality when it's their only choice due to line-of-sight issues or an insistence on having TW's internet service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/15483026
> 
> 
> Chances are the installer was wise to your act Nickdawg and set your dish off-kilter on purpose.
> 
> I
















































It's all a plot against you nickdawg. The satellites, TWC, SDV, this forum. All designed to drive you mad.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *burgher* /forum/post/15482772
> 
> 
> Combine those, Hookbill, & you've got it right: BIG BONE LICK State Park!!(where the buffalo roam by the way)



That's right. The other one is BIG BEAVER LICK.


----------



## yespage

With respect to these RTN or other sub-channels, is their any word on the NE Ohio area (or more important to me, the Cleveland stations) gaining some of these? Or are the major station entities spinning a wheel to randomly choose markets?


As a side note, I saw a report yesterday about the Federal digital converter coupon program running out of money and being backlogged. Whoops... who would of thought that the Federal Government would make a mistake like that.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15483857
> 
> 
> With respect to these RTN or other sub-channels, is their any word on the NE Ohio area (or more important to me, the Cleveland stations) gaining some of these? Or are the major station entities spinning a wheel to randomly choose markets?
> 
> 
> As a side note, I saw a report yesterday about the Federal digital converter coupon program running out of money and being backlogged. Whoops... who would of thought that the Federal Government would make a mistake like that.













As expected, the entire DTV Coupon program was a joke from day one! My favorite part is when people receive EXPIRED coupons and then cannot get them replaced cuz the system shows "that address has received their two coupons".










I can understand an expiration date, but how about making all coupons expire end of Feb 09? Or even March 09 (for the *real* procrastinators)???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15484641
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As expected, the entire DTV Coupon program was a joke from day one! My favorite part is when people receive EXPIRED coupons and then cannot get them replaced cuz the system shows "that address has received their two coupons".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand an expiration date, but how about making all coupons expire end of Feb 09? Or even March 09 (for the *real* procrastinators)???



I've been following that pretty closely and I think you're mistaking. People are allowing their coupons to expire, they are not receiving coupons that expired. I don't know where you got that, but I'll bet you'll provide me a link.










I see your point. Yes, the expiration date should have been the day after television goes digital. And if we look at the way government has been handled in general, oh let's say the last 8 years, you kind of understand why. But look at people in general. There are so many procrastinators! I got my coupon and was out the door the next day. I say if their coupon expired, too bad so sad. Walmarts got them for a flat 40 bucks plus tax. Pay and quit the whining.


----------



## Trip in VA

I know of at least two people whose coupons never arrived. One was supposed to give his to me.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15486027
> 
> 
> I know of at least two people whose coupons never arrived. One was supposed to give his to me.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Never arriving and arriving expired are two different things. They say if you haven't heard anything then you need to request again. Stuff happens.







I kind of remember being able to keep some kind of track on the web about it. I knew at least my coupon had been processed.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15476359
> 
> 
> I live in Erie 35.1 is WSEE(CBS Programming)
> 
> 35.2 is WBEP(CW+ Programming
> 
> 35.3 is WICU(NBC Programming)



Why doesn't WICU have it's own seperate channel?


I heard that one of the Erie stations had no intent on carrying any HD programming. Is that true, and if so which station? (well I can bet it's WICU).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15482844
> 
> 
> Unless you can tell us how good your reception was (percentage) during sunny days verses the reception percentage was on rainy days, you have little to defend that the dish was installed properly. Now, if you had near perfect reception on sunny days and terrible reception on cloudy days, then you'd have an argument, but you have no data to support your conclusion that it was the dish and not the installation.



I can't quote an exact percentage, but it was good enough that those problems were not there on sunny days. But whenever the storms rolled in or the snow piled up, the trouble started. And the worst part was, it was guaranteed that it would start acting up whenever the weather man would come on TV. Tornado warnings, severe storms-guess who doesn't get to hear about that? My mom also had a satellite at her house installed around the same time, by a different person(I asked). But she still had almost the same problems with the weather. I also have another relative who also claims it almost never goes out, but it still does. I've even seen it.


But, my cable has worked 99% of the time during severe weather. Other than circumstances beyond my control(power outages, lines down).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15474845
> 
> 
> I'd be hesitant to spray anything on the dish. In the rare instances when I've needed to clear the dish off, I can reach the dish via a small step ladder and a broom. *yespage waits for T-Fal or Caphalon to come out with a non-stick Sat dish*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, seeing that Sat TV is superior in almost any single way to Cable... they don't really need to. Dish and Directv will take jabs at each other regarding who has the most channels in "HD", but that is about it. I just wanted to clear up any misconception that Satellite dishes had reception issues when installed properly.
> 
> 
> Oh man, I remember being able to watch the wild feeds of so many things like the Indy 500, hockey, baseball, football games (sometimes without even needing to listen to the announcers) or watching shows (like Star Trek TNG) well before they aired on live television. Those were the days!



I tried the PAM thing back in '98 when I installed my 1st Dish Network system. Let's just say PAM is for Kitchen use only. I almost killed myself by falling off the garage roof the first time the snow stuck to the dish. (no I did not fall but I did have one passerby stop to ask if I needed help) What was I thinking?


When I moved I put my dishes on fence posts. Now I can reach them to brush off the snow or tweak the aiming if a big wind knocks them out of line.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15488579
> 
> 
> Why doesn't WICU have it's own seperate channel?
> 
> 
> I heard that one of the Erie stations had no intent on carrying any HD programming. Is that true, and if so which station? (well I can bet it's WICU).



WICU has its own channel, DT-52. Lilly didn't build it out since they'd be returning to 12 anyway.


And yes, it's WICU. Every other station in Erie has started HD.


- Trip


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15488629
> 
> 
> I can't quote an exact percentage, but it was good enough that those problems were not there on sunny days. But whenever the storms rolled in or the snow piled up, the trouble started. And the worst part was, it was guaranteed that it would start acting up whenever the weather man would come on TV. Tornado warnings, severe storms-guess who doesn't get to hear about that? My mom also had a satellite at her house installed around the same time, by a different person(I asked). But she still had almost the same problems with the weather. I also have another relative who also claims it almost never goes out, but it still does. I've even seen it.
> 
> 
> But, my cable has worked 99% of the time during severe weather. Other than circumstances beyond my control(power outages, lines down).



The cool thing about having dual dishes is that if one gets blocked by the weather, the other one usually still has signal. In my case the HD locals (and all the other HD channels) come from the SE (61.5w) and rarely gets rainfade. I may lose some "core" SD channels from time to time (from the SW 110/119) but usually for only a few minutes).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15488650
> 
> 
> I tried the PAM thing back in '98 when I installed my 1st Dish Network system. Let's just say PAM is for Kitchen use only. I almost killed myself by falling off the garage roof the first time the snow stuck to the dish. (no I did not fall but I did have one passerby stop to ask if I needed help) What was I thinking?
> 
> 
> When I moved I put my dishes on fence posts. Now I can reach them to brush off the snow or tweak the aiming if a big wind knocks them out of line.



Hey, I never said I knew it would work. I kind of felt like it may have been an old wives tale.










I'd never get on top of my roof here, nor at my house in KY. It's a long ways down you see, and I already have one fractured vertebrae.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15484641
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As expected, the entire DTV Coupon program was a joke from day one! My favorite part is when people receive EXPIRED coupons and then cannot get them replaced cuz the system shows "that address has received their two coupons".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand an expiration date, but how about making all coupons expire end of Feb 09? Or even March 09 (for the *real* procrastinators)???



I agree. That "90 day expiration date" is a load of crap. It's almost like the government is trying to "punish" antenna viewers with nonsense







expiration dates BEFORE 2/17, "running out of money", waiting lists). It's absurd that there is so much drama with this program. We can send billions a month overseas to fund an unnecessary war, but we have to make a wait list for people to get a $40 coupon? Get your priorities straight!!!
















http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...t-for-dtv.html 



And part of the problem is, thanks to the media campaign stressing the *February 17, 2009* date, people think they will need the boxes *on* that date. I'm sure some probably don't know it will work now.


But then that opens up a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you set the box up now, you'll get whatever channels you can get on their OLD channels. Some of them, like WKYC, may be changing. So they better get the message out successfully to re-scan once the channel changes. And if you wait until February to set up the box, there could be antenna problems. Then you'll need to buy a new antenna and find an installer in NE Ohio February







, plus be without certain channels.


They really could not have scheduled this for June or July 17, 2009?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15485920
> 
> 
> I've been following that pretty closely and I think you're mistaking. People are allowing their coupons to expire, they are not receiving coupons that expired. I don't know where you got that, but I'll bet you'll provide me a link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see your point. Yes, the expiration date should have been the day after television goes digital. And if we look at the way government has been handled in general, oh let's say the last 8 years, you kind of understand why. But look at people in general. There are so many procrastinators! I got my coupon and was out the door the next day. I say if their coupon expired, too bad so sad. Walmarts got them for a flat 40 bucks plus tax. Pay and quit the whining.



One of many consumer sites and forums listing the numerous issues with the program:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...upons-con.html 


I only knew of the problem when both of my coupons were used for a friend and a relative that this happened to.










EDIT: To be fair, I did indeed receive my coupons in a timely fashion and they were not expired.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15488791
> 
> 
> I agree. That "90 day expiration date" is a load of crap. It's almost like the government is trying to "punish" antenna viewers with nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> expiration dates BEFORE 2/17, "running out of money", waiting lists). It's absurd that there is so much drama with this program. We can send billions a month overseas to fund an unnecessary war, but we have to make a wait list for people to get a $40 coupon? Get your priorities straight!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...t-for-dtv.html
> 
> 
> 
> And part of the problem is, thanks to the media campaign stressing the *February 17, 2009* date, people think they will need the boxes *on* that date. I'm sure some probably don't know it will work now.
> 
> 
> But then that opens up a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you set the box up now, you'll get whatever channels you can get on their OLD channels. Some of them, like WKYC, may be changing. So they better get the message out successfully to re-scan once the channel changes. And if you wait until February to set up the box, there could be antenna problems. Then you'll need to buy a new antenna and find an installer in NE Ohio February
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , plus be without certain channels.
> 
> 
> They really could not have scheduled this for June or July 17, 2009?



Exactly!
























BTW: What was the result of the "test" shutoff? Not the warning message they did nationally back in Dec. There was some market in NC or SC that was turning off their analog OTA's last fall as a "test" to see what kind of troubles may pop up (broadcasters and consumers) with the DTV conversion. Anyone know?


----------



## Trip in VA

Wilmington was a disaster though they won't call it one. Even with the fire department out helping hook up boxes, there were still 2,000 calls (14,000 OTA households). Many were because a station had moved their digital transmitter to a location different from the analog, so people lost coverage (but that would have happened anyway, because the analog was weak in Wilmington, thus the move).


That's why the nightlight bill came about, because the stations did that in Wilmington and it did help as a lot of people saw it and called the number.


- Trip


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15489347
> 
> 
> Wilmington was a disaster though they won't call it one. Even with the fire department out helping hook up boxes, there were still 2,000 calls (14,000 OTA households). Many were because a station had moved their digital transmitter to a location different from the analog, so people lost coverage (but that would have happened anyway, because the analog was weak in Wilmington, thus the move).
> 
> 
> That's why the nightlight bill came about, because the stations did that in Wilmington and it did help as a lot of people saw it and called the number.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks Trip.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15488680
> 
> 
> WICU has its own channel, DT-52. Lilly didn't build it out since they'd be returning to 12 anyway.
> 
> 
> And yes, it's WICU. Every other station in Erie has started HD.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I get a 15-30% signal on the Mansfield 68 (12-1) signal but usually not enough to lock. (Yes, even up here below the ridge in Lake County, what is wrong with the Akron transmitters that are miles closer?)


Erie, which is miles closer than Mansfield, I was thiking that WICU analog was a partial reason I can't lock 68 from Mansfield, I was looking forward to WICU shutting off the analog transmitter on 12 & seeing what happens.


They are returning to 12 then?... Nice! (???).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15488791
> 
> 
> They really could not have scheduled this for June or July 17, 2009?



WHY? What difference does it make?


Let me remind you first that not everybody has weather like we do. So if that's your theory I disagree.


And if they did schedule it for July procrastination would still take place. Heck it already has taken place, this was suppose to been done earlier but the stations bought time.


Why couldn't people get their coupons during the summer last year? You'd have to live in a cave not to know about this. I got my coupon last year and used it right away. By nature, I don't wait until the last minute.


In addition they just said on the news tonight that those who don't get a good signal on their favorite stations will by the date of change. As has been pointed out to me earlier, they are looking at increasing their signals.


If you were stupid enough to wait until the last minute to get your card or box, or if it wasn't delivered and you didn't follow up on it that is YOUR fault.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15474845
> 
> 
> I'd be hesitant to spray anything on the dish. In the rare instances when I've needed to clear the dish off, I can reach the dish via a small step ladder and a broom. *yespage waits for T-Fal or Caphalon to come out with a non-stick Sat dish*



Wouldn't our corrosive salt air eat this finish off eventually?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15489524
> 
> 
> WHY? What difference does it make?
> 
> 
> Let me remind you first that not everybody has weather like we do. So if that's your theory I disagree.
> 
> 
> And if they did schedule it for July procrastination would still take place. Heck it already has taken place, this was suppose to been done earlier but the stations bought time.
> 
> 
> Why couldn't people get their coupons during the summer last year? You'd have to live in a cave not to know about this. I got my coupon last year and used it right away. By nature, I don't wait until the last minute.
> 
> 
> In addition they just said on the news tonight that those who don't get a good signal on their favorite stations will by the date of change. As has been pointed out to me earlier, they are looking at increasing their signals.
> 
> 
> If you were stupid enough to wait until the last minute to get your card or box, or if it wasn't delivered and you didn't follow up on it that is YOUR fault.




Yes those poor people in the south have to endure a few rainstorms & days below 60 degrees too.










Unfortunately since nothing set in stone, & will things unforseen will happen in February, (ie 2 to 17) I know I will have to wait for better weather just to tweak my attic antenna.


Now why did WKYC wait till the last minute to build their new tower then??


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15488899
> 
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW: What was the result of the "test" shutoff? Not the warning message they did nationally back in Dec. There was some market in NC or SC that was turning off their analog OTA's last fall as a "test" to see what kind of troubles may pop up (broadcasters and consumers) with the DTV conversion. Anyone know?



I understood the Wilmington experiment was final & permanent, & the analog transmitters would not go back on.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15489597
> 
> 
> YNow why did WKYC wait till the last minute to build their new tower then??



It's one of the many benefits of having to wait for Canadian coordination. No point in building out a station if you don't know whether the Canadians will let you use that channel.


And yes, WICU-DT will operate on channel 12 after the transition.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15489524
> 
> 
> WHY? What difference does it make?
> 
> 
> Let me remind you first that not everybody has weather like we do. So if that's your theory I disagree.
> 
> 
> And if they did schedule it for July procrastination would still take place. Heck it already has taken place, this was suppose to been done earlier but the stations bought time.
> 
> 
> Why couldn't people get their coupons during the summer last year? You'd have to live in a cave not to know about this. I got my coupon last year and used it right away. By nature, I don't wait until the last minute.
> 
> 
> In addition they just said on the news tonight that those who don't get a good signal on their favorite stations will by the date of change. As has been pointed out to me earlier, they are looking at increasing their signals.
> 
> 
> If you were stupid enough to wait until the last minute to get your card or box, or if it wasn't delivered and you didn't follow up on it that is YOUR fault.



The "difference" that would be made is this big event is not happening in the dead of winter. I think you're forgetting that more states than just Ohio up North have winter weather. And as far as signals, I'm sure many are holding out hope they will get stronger. But what if it is the antenna's fault? Do you want to climb on the roof and replace an antenna? How many antenna installers will you find working in the February-March "dead of winter" here? Procrastination will take place regardless of the date, that's not the reason. The reason *IS* the weather.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15489618
> 
> 
> I understood the Wilmington experiment was final & permanent, & the analog transmitters would not go back on.



Correct. It was the results of this I was inquiring about.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15489524
> 
> 
> ...........If you were stupid enough to wait until the last minute to get your card or box, or if it wasn't delivered and you didn't follow up on it that is YOUR fault.



Agreed on the first part. I'll bet there will be some fun news events just prior too and just after Feb 17th. Maybe some more good Wal Mart brawls caught on tape??










The latter of your statement is what much of the coupon problem stems from. i.e. a typical govt. program. Poorly thought out, poorly implemented, poorly funded, poorly handled.


People have tried to follow up when:

- no coupons received

- received coupons are expired by the time they actually do receive them

- models not available in stores with valid coupons (soon to expire)


........and they are told "sorry, we show your address as having already applied for a coupon, so our system will not allow us to send them again".


I have no need for such converters, but like you I would have applied for the coupons last summer if I did need them. I only applied for them in early fall because a friend received an expired coupon and was turned away when she asked for a replacement. Luckily I had the extra coupon when a family member never received theirs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15490122
> 
> 
> Agreed on the first part. I'll bet there will be some fun news events just prior too and just after Feb 17th. Maybe some more good Wal Mart brawls caught on tape??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latter of your statement is what much of the coupon problem stems from. i.e. a typical govt. program. Poorly thought out, poorly implemented, poorly funded, poorly handled.
> 
> 
> People have tried to follow up when:
> 
> - no coupons received
> 
> - received coupons are expired by the time they actually do receive them
> 
> - models not available in stores with valid coupons (soon to expire)
> 
> 
> ........and they are told "sorry, we show your address as having already applied for a coupon, so our system will not allow us to send them again".
> 
> 
> I have no need for such converters, but like you I would have applied for the coupons last summer if I did need them. I only applied for them in early fall because a friend received an expired coupon and was turned away when she asked for a replacement. Luckily I had the extra coupon when a family member never received theirs.



The more I think about it I wonder if indeed this "coupon" thing was poorly thought out. I hate to be a cynic but it could be that this program was designed exactly this way in an effort to make it appear that government was "assisting" people, when in fact they probably knew darn good and well that people would either sit on these coupons and have them expire, or not know enough not to wait until the last minute.


I'm going to just briefly go into politics here and I beg everyone's pardon, and I'm going to be fair. I mentioned the last 8 years but calculated decisions that effect the middle class and poor, in this case specially the poor, go back further then that. Clinton did it too when he gave his blessings to NAFTA. Look where that has got us.


Now to some this thinking may appear shall we say, *bazaar*







but it wouldn't surprise me.


Nah, my mind is going to far with this. Yeah, poorly thought out.







That's what it is.


----------



## toby10




hookbill said:


> The more I think about it I wonder if indeed this "coupon" thing was poorly thought out. I hate to be a cynic but it could be that this program was designed exactly this way in an effort to make it appear that government was "assisting" people, when in fact they probably knew darn good and well that people would either sit on these coupons and have them expire, or not know enough not to wait until the last minute......
> 
> 
> 
> Could be. *shrug* Though that implies that the collective IQ of our wonderful federal bureaucrats are bright enuff to think up such a scheme.
> 
> 
> Always remember, in DC we have 535 representatives being "persuaded" **- cough -** by over 25,000 registered lobbyists. God knows how many more are NOT registered. The peoples interests are seldom at the forefront of our representatives actions (or inaction).
Click to expand...


----------



## hookbill




toby10 said:


> hookbill said:
> 
> 
> 
> The more I think about it I wonder if indeed this "coupon" thing was poorly thought out. I hate to be a cynic but it could be that this program was designed exactly this way in an effort to make it appear that government was "assisting" people, when in fact they probably knew darn good and well that people would either sit on these coupons and have them expire, or not know enough not to wait until the last minute......
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Could be. *shrug* Though that implies that the collective IQ of our wonderful federal bureaucrats are bright enuff to think up such a scheme.
> 
> 
> Always remember, in DC we have 535 representatives being "persuaded" **- cough -** by over 25,000 registered lobbyists. God knows how many more are NOT registered. The peoples interests are seldom at the forefront of our representatives actions (or inaction).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All federal bureaucrats? I kind of doubt it, probably just the one's in the FCC. You know, the guys who made a big deal of "defective costumes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt if GW even got to look at this before it went into effect. Probably somebody on his staff gave the OK.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## toby10




hookbill said:


> toby10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15491540
> 
> 
> The more I think about it I wonder if indeed this "coupon" thing was poorly thought out. I hate to be a cynic but it could be that this program was designed exactly this way in an effort to make it appear that government was "assisting" people, when in fact they probably knew darn good and well that people would either sit on these coupons and have them expire, or not know enough not to wait until the last minute......
> 
> 
> All federal bureaucrats? I kind of doubt it, probably just the one's in the FCC. You know, the guys who made a big deal of "defective costumes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt if GW even got to look at this before it went into effect. Probably somebody on his staff gave the OK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Such a program involves more than just the FCC. House, Senate, Treasury come to mind.
> 
> 
> The White House (under any administration) would care little of spending any real time or resources on such a trivial matter and small budget expenditure. That's what the departments are for. It would be as important for the White House to spend resources on combing over a DOD expenditure of an equal budget amount for M1 tank parts. Just not high on the priority list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## hookbill

OK, I'll just leave it as government screw up. The expiration dates were dumb.


I was actually discussing this with my wife last night and what we couldn't understand is if you hand out a coupon, and it is not used, and you have X amount dollars, wouldn't you still have that money once the coupon expires?


If I write a check but I don't send it that money is still in the bank.


But I'm trying to apply common sense here and that is not something government seems to do.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Myers* /forum/post/15452531
> 
> 
> I live in Copley and am planning to switch from TWC to Dish. I'd like to try getting my HD locals OTA with indoor antennas. To use DVR effectively, I'd like to avoid the need to adjust the antenna for different stations. From what I've been able to find online, all the Cleveland channels I care about (3,5,8,19,25,43) are in the Parma farm, 18.5 to 22.2 miles distant and within 5 degrees on the compass.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for an indoor antenna that is meeting similar requirements for other users? (I did search the thread but didn't come up with anything concrete.)



If you are getting Dish your locals will come by satellite (HD from 61.5, SD from 110). I used to get my locals OTA and not subscribe to the satellite delivered locals (called "LIL" on the DBS Forums for local into local), however not subscribing means getting no guide data in the EPG, which is a drag for DVR use.


BTW: Those of you in Akron should have a better shot at Youngstown than those of us up in Cleveland. I was in Akron (I-77 North between downtown and the SR-21 merge) last week and all the Y-Town FM stations were coming in on my car radio as strong as the Cleveland stations.


I suggest getting "DVR Advantage" from Dish, while you have to sub to the locals part of the DVR fee gets waived - my bill went up a whopping $1.01 last year when I switched to DVR advantage. $1.01 to get guide data is worth it!


I still use OTA as well, I keep my antenna aimed at Youngstown fro WKBN-DT. The guide data does show up for WKBN & WYFX (Dish cannot sell you the satellite-deliverd signals out-of-market but you still get the guide data for any station thay you scan in OTA as long as that station is in their database).


BTW I use a Silver Sensor for my indoor antenna and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. Being on high ground helps, as well as aiming the antena through a window facing the transmitter. I also have a rooftop UHF antenna aimed at Youngstown, but the wind as knocked it out of whack (my chimney is too small to support the mast properly). I get the other 2 Youngstown stations from the rooftop when the atmosphere assists the signals. WYTV is supposed to get a major power increase soon so that may help get that station here in the near future.


----------



## AdamPS

Does anyone know if/when there are plans for DirecTV to carry WUAB-HD, and if not what the holdup is? It is the only major Cleveland local that is only offered in SD. I have tried contacting WUAB using the email address on their homepage ([email protected]) a few times and have gotten no response. When I called DirecTV they game me an unsurprising lack of info.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/15497671
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if/when there are plans for DirecTV to carry WUAB-HD, and if not what the holdup is? It is the only major Cleveland local that is only offered in SD. I have tried contacting WUAB using the email address on their homepage ([email protected]) a few times and have gotten no response. When I called DirecTV they game me an unsurprising lack of info.



I got to be honest, is there anything on in HD in that channel? Is there anything worth watching on that channel? 19 Action News at 10:00 is all I've ever seen. Good comedy show and excellent for promo for their real channel 19 news.










D* took forever to put the CW on, I think the reason they haven't put WUAB-HD on is because of poor programming and lack of true HD.


----------



## AdamPS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15497734
> 
> 
> I got to be honest, is there anything on in HD in that channel? Is there anything worth watching on that channel? 19 Action News at 10:00 is all I've ever seen. Good comedy show and excellent for promo for their real channel 19 news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D* took forever to put the CW on, I think the reason they haven't put WUAB-HD on is because of poor programming and lack of true HD.



First and foremost, the handful of Cavs games that they show. Beyond that, it would be nice to get WWE Smackdown in HD as well as the news (I know Action News gets its share of criticism around these parts but my wife loves it). It's not like the CW has loads of great HD content either though, so I am kind of surprised that they have one and not the other. Would this be more of a DirecTV issue or a WUAB issue?


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15494476
> 
> 
> OK, I'll just leave it as government screw up. The expiration dates were dumb.
> 
> 
> I was actually discussing this with my wife last night and what we couldn't understand is if you hand out a coupon, and it is not used, and you have X amount dollars, wouldn't you still have that money once the coupon expires?
> 
> 
> If I write a check but I don't send it that money is still in the bank.
> 
> 
> But I'm trying to apply common sense here and that is not something government seems to do.



It does appear they are going to try and use that expired coupon money to re-distribute some. I read that a while ago, but a link that was posted a few up has this quote:



> Quote:
> The agency will send out coupons to those on the list only as unredeemed coupons currently in circulation expire.


 http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...t-for-dtv.html


----------



## nickdawg

Read this little tidbit from OMW:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/0...warner-hd.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15500673
> 
> 
> Read this little tidbit from OMW:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/0...warner-hd.html



I hope this didn't surprise you. It's what I've been saying for some time now.


Yes, it's all our fault! Unfortunately for you, Adelphia is the majority of the new TWNEO.

















All anyone has to do is read back on my posts. When SDV was first mentioned, I knew the old Adelphia systems were not current with available technology and therefore I took the gamble on buying my TiVo S3 because I knew they wouldn't pull it off before a solution for SDV would be available. At that time I had no idea what or how, but I was banking on time. Now we have the tuning adapter and my bet paid off.


I've been saying for years now that the Adelphia and Comcast systems were a big problem. Thank's for the link, it affirms what I have thought all along.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15489715
> 
> 
> The "difference" that would be made is this big event is not happening in the dead of winter. I think you're forgetting that more states than just Ohio up North have winter weather. And as far as signals, I'm sure many are holding out hope they will get stronger. But what if it is the antenna's fault? Do you want to climb on the roof and replace an antenna? How many antenna installers will you find working in the February-March "dead of winter" here? Procrastination will take place regardless of the date, that's not the reason. The reason *IS* the weather.



Ridiculous. I'll bet the majority of the country has no snow or ice to deal with inbetween now and then, and as I stated they have been talking about this for two frigging years! If you were really stupid enough to wait until now and you have an antenna, too bad, so sad.


Sorry I took so long to respond on this, somehow I missed your reply and you know I always read everything you say, 'dawg!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/15498965
> 
> 
> It does appear they are going to try and use that expired coupon money to re-distribute some. I read that a while ago, but a link that was posted a few up has this quote:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors...t-for-dtv.html



Yes, I believe that's been discussed. The question is why did they put an expiration date on it? I could see 2/18, or 3/18 but 3 months after they sent it out? Now they have to double check to see if it's an original request or a duplicate. And you know the government, they can't even do an election with a computer let alone do a federal program with coupons!


Maybe I'll go back to my conspiracy theory.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15500887
> 
> 
> I hope this didn't surprise you. It's what I've been saying for some time now.
> 
> 
> Yes, it's all our fault! Unfortunately for you, Adelphia is the majority of the new TWNEO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All anyone has to do is read back on my posts. When SDV was first mentioned, I knew the old Adelphia systems were not current with available technology and therefore I took the gamble on buying my TiVo S3 because I knew they wouldn't pull it off before a solution for SDV would be available. At that time I had no idea what or how, but I was banking on time. Now we have the tuning adapter and my bet paid off.
> 
> 
> I've been saying for years now that the Adelphia and Comcast systems were a big problem. Thank's for the link, it affirms what I have thought all along.



The thing that really cranks me is what Mr. Jasso said. "What we don't want to do is treat our Akron and Cleveland systems differently" Bull f**king s**t!!! The systems ARE different. WE(those of us on the Akron/Canton system) have been customers of TWC for years. If we have an advanced system ready to go, why the hell are they NOT using it? This article shows the utter stupidity of Time Warner Cable. All their competitors have more than 14 HD channels, yet they choose to sit back and piss on EVERYONE just because a few areas need more work. If they wanted to keep their customers, they'd increase the number of channels where they can with SDV and add as many possible in areas without SDV.


Those of us who are on existing TWC systems are entitled to these channels *NOW*!! Our high bills have paid for this crap and I want it used to its full potential.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15501715
> 
> 
> The thing that really cranks me is what Mr. Jasso said. "What we don't want to do is treat our Akron and Cleveland systems differently" Bull f**king s**t!!! The systems ARE different. WE(those of us on the Akron/Canton system) have been customers of TWC for years. If we have an advanced system ready to go, why the hell are they NOT using it? This article shows the utter stupidity of Time Warner Cable. All their competitors have more than 14 HD channels, yet they choose to sit back and piss on EVERYONE just because a few areas need more work. If they wanted to keep their customers, they'd increase the number of channels where they can with SDV and add as many possible in areas without SDV.
> 
> 
> Those of us who are on existing TWC systems are entitled to these channels *NOW*!! Our high bills have paid for this crap and I want it used to its full potential.























































I told you that you wouldn't get it before we did. Heck I even hoped you would get it just so you would stop complaining.


However what put's this **** eating grin I have on my face right now, is the fact that I was right!


----------



## nickdawg

(clap) (clap) (clap) (clap)






































Congratulations! You were right about not getting any more channels. Heartwarming.

_Monk_ and _Psych_ are on USA tomorrow---the new season starts.

_Rescue Me_ starts in March and _Nip/Tuck_ starts soon as well.


EVERYBODY else gets to watch those shows in HD.









































































Think I'll be watching those shows?


All signs point to *NO*!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15503134
> 
> 
> Think I'll be watching those shows?
> 
> 
> All signs point to *NO*!!



You can still watch them in SD. Live with it.










And there are probably very good reasons TWC's thinking is that way, much of it, I presume, having to with the fact that they market all of their Northeast Ohio systems as a group.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15503729
> 
> 
> 
> And there are probably very good reasons TWC's thinking is that way, much of it, I presume, having to with the fact that they market all of their Northeast Ohio systems as a group.



Last time I checked, AT&T's "U-verse" was starting to pop up in the Akron area and suburbs. I remember discussion about it here and it was not available in some other area that was former Adelphia. *THAT* is TWC's biggest mistake. Akron and most of its suburbs(Stow, Cuyahoga Falls, Tallmadge, Green, Barberton) and Canton and surrounding areas are existing TWC and have been for years. These are the areas that got the lineup change first last year as well as the Navigator conversion and **_should_** have SDV deployed and active on STBs.


It just screams poor business standards to piss on your viewers by not using technology in areas that have the appropriate technology. And it's even worse that there is yet another competitor other than D* or E*.

----

EDIT: Plus, we could have had SDV here(in old TWC land) a few years ago, had it been necessary. We've had digital simulcast on below 100 channels since 2006. On top of that, TWC having control over this system since near the beginning and the updates made for digital cable in recent years, it wasn't much of a problem installing SDV, which is already active on the Shopping channels (185-200) as well as 10 or 15 + "duplicate" channels in the 800s / 900s.


The problem here is Time Warner Cable royally f**ked the pooch by investing so much in VOD services. I remember around 2001-2002 they really started going balls out adding VOD services beyond Movies On Demand and HBO On Demand. That was their main priority, that was the way they were trying to "one up" satellite.


And it really bit them in the ass. But in TWC's defense, nobody could have really seen this HD explosion coming. If you go back to January 2007, the number of HD channels we currently have on TWC was about it for HD offerings, on any system. Of course we had even less channels on TWC back then, but there wasn't that much more to be had by anyone. And then came D*'s claim of "100 HD channels", which even I laughed at and called "bulls..t!" on. But they did it, and several other companies were able to at least be competitive with D*.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15503859
> 
> 
> EDIT: Plus, we could have had SDV here(in old TWC land) a few years ago, had it been necessary. We've had digital simulcast on below 100 channels since 2006.



Extremely doubtful. SDV was just being started at that time, TWC did not make a commitment to a full roll out until mid year 2007.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15503859
> 
> 
> The problem here is Time Warner Cable royally f**ked the pooch by investing so much in VOD services. I remember around 2001-2002 they really started going balls out adding VOD services beyond Movies On Demand and HBO On Demand. That was their main priority, that was the way they were trying to "one up" satellite.
> 
> 
> And it really bit them in the ass. But in TWC's defense, nobody could have really seen this HD explosion coming. If you go back to January 2007, the number of HD channels we currently have on TWC was about it for HD offerings, on any system. Of course we had even less channels on TWC back then, but there wasn't that much more to be had by anyone. And then came D*'s claim of "100 HD channels", which even I laughed at and called "bulls..t!" on. But they did it, and several other companies were able to at least be competitive with D*.



I don't think that SDV is that much different then On Demand. In a sense, I believe it's very similar with the exception that you pick the channel up "live" as opposed to the way On Demand works.


I totally agree with you about D* and the claim of 100 HD channels. I thought, impossible and I'll be a monkey's uncle if they didn't pull it off.


I know how you feel about satellite so there is no relief there. My experience was 180 degrees different then yours.


What angers me about all this is that I believe *right now* TWC has the ability to add additional HD channels without SDV. They are not out of bandwith, we know this from the Olympic channels that they added. They could put USA and FX on if they wanted to but they choose not to.










I'd love USA and FX in HD, so I'm angry about that. And they give us these BS channels like Home and Garden and Food Network. Yes, I understand there are some programs people enjoy on those channels but I would take a really good drama or comedy over any of that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15503859
> 
> 
> It just screams poor business standards to piss on your viewers by not using technology in areas that have the appropriate technology. And it's even worse that there is yet another competitor other than D* or E*.
> 
> ----



Here's where you're wrong. You can't give some of the people something that the majority of people in the same area are not capable of doing.


In your case TW's mistake was not calling it TW Akron, or something like that and making TWNEO a completely different thing to work with. But somebody, probably Mr. Fry, decided to make it all one company. With that decision came this problem.


I will tell you right now if I didn't have my two TiVo's I would jump ship now. I understand there is a signal you can get from the Southeast now. If that's the case and I hadn't already invested in TiVo they'd be out here already. Better analog picture. More HD. That's why I tell anyone who comes in here thinking about Sat vs Cable to go Satellite. The unfortunate experience you had and your mom had is not the experience of the majority.


Let me just add one more thing about my satellite experience: I had satellite in Los Angeles with Primestar and it worked great back in 1996. I had cable when I first moved to Northern Kentucky in 1997 and got rid of it within 2 months, went back to Primestar. D* bought out Primestar and around 2001 I got D-TiVo. Now TiVo is coming back to Direct TV. I'd jump on that band wagon in a second. Cable sucks.


----------



## yespage

Oh and of course, there is one other thing for Sat TV to be angry at Cable Providers about... the whole lobbying Columbus to pass a sales tax on Sat TV, but not Cable TV. Speak about unfair competition. Cable knows it can't run with Sat TV, so they have to spend money in Columbus in order for the State to make cable more cost competitive.


Granted, an argument could be made that the value of Sat TV is much higher and that Cable TV just sucks so bad that it doesn't deserve to be taxed...


----------



## Inundated

nickdawg, you're just whining because YOU happen to be in the original TWC area and YOU think they should make you happy first.










The problem is simple: When they make a major HD expansion, they advertise it. They need to let people know, so they don't go looking for competitors. But if they advertise it, they advertise it in the Cleveland based media (TV stations, etc.). If they "lit up" Akron first, they'd be deluged from calls from Cleveland-area former Adelphia subscribers who wouldn't be able to get the new stuff that's, well, being advertised. So, they can't advertise Akron-only services.


The bigger problem is that SDV or no, they're apparently still piecing together the incompatible Adelphia and Comcast systems. They have to do that no matter what they do with SDV or new HD channels.


You can try to ignore these realities, but you do so at your own peril.


In the end, the decision is yours...if you are frustrated by the lack of HD programming on TWC, you have choices. Or, you can wait until they get their act together. But your "Akron first, screw the rest of you" attitude will get nothing in the long run.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15506626
> 
> 
> Oh and of course, there is one other thing for Sat TV to be angry at Cable Providers about... the whole lobbying Columbus to pass a sales tax on Sat TV, but not Cable TV. Speak about unfair competition. Cable knows it can't run with Sat TV, so they have to spend money in Columbus in order for the State to make cable more cost competitive.
> 
> 
> Granted, an argument could be made that the value of Sat TV is much higher and that Cable TV just sucks so bad that it doesn't deserve to be taxed...



The case could also be made of pole and franchise fees paid by the cable companies and not the sat companies


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15503859
> 
> 
> ..................
> 
> The problem here is Time Warner Cable royally f**ked the pooch by investing so much in VOD services. I remember around 2001-2002 they really started going balls out adding VOD services beyond Movies On Demand and HBO On Demand. That was their main priority, that was the way they were trying to "one up" satellite.................



I love VOD stuff! The more the merrier.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15507074
> 
> 
> The case could also be made of pole and franchise fees paid by the cable companies and not the sat companies



Franchise fees? Paid to who?


If you're talking about local municipals, Ohio State Legislature changed that about a year ago to make room for AT&T Uverse. I don't know if franchise fees are paid to the state but I doubt it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15507352
> 
> 
> Franchise fees? Paid to who?
> 
> 
> If you're talking about local municipals, Ohio State Legislature changed that about a year ago to make room for AT&T Uverse. I don't know if franchise fees are paid to the state but I doubt it.



Changed it how? Cities are no longer allowed to require them?


State get's their sales tax and CAT tax and others.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15507445
> 
> 
> Changed it how? Cities are no longer allowed to require them?
> 
> 
> State get's their sales tax and CAT tax and others.



That got change as I said earlier. By removing the right for a local area to franchise a cable company, it allowed AT&T to set up shop for UVerse.


Found a link here .


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15507681
> 
> 
> That got change as I said earlier. By removing the right for a local area to franchise a cable company, it allowed AT&T to set up shop for UVerse.
> 
> 
> Found a link here .



Thanks.







Your link proposes exactly that: pay a fee (franchise or other) to the State instead of having to pay and negotiate the same to each municipality.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15507074
> 
> 
> The case could also be made of pole and franchise fees paid by the cable companies and not the sat companies



Curious argument... Sat company subscribers should be punished for their Sat service not requiring any physical infrastructure in a city or state? Sat company subscribers should be punished for their company of choice not having to encroach so broadly on public right-of-way?


Next we'll hear about a tax on airplane travelers to make up for the highway tolls they aren't paying.


----------



## ajstan99

Anyone surprised? Who's the "analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker" now?


January 9, 2009:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,6537360.story 


"On Thursday, President-elect Barack Obama asked Congress to postpone the federally mandated switch to all-digital broadcast television, called DTV, scheduled to take place Feb. 17."


October 11, 2008:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/14128478
> 
> 
> JM is an analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker. Loud an whiney with no depth or feeling. BO is the Dolby Digital 3/2.1 broadcast on an great surround system that you can feel when he talks. The floor shakes, sound that gives you goosebumps from the awsomeness---both in quality and substance.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15510230
> 
> 
> Anyone surprised? Who's the "analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker" now?



I'm assuming *J*ohn *M*cCain.



> Quote:
> January 9, 2009:
> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,6537360.story
> 
> 
> "On Thursday, President-elect Barack Obama asked Congress to postpone the federally mandated switch to all-digital broadcast television, called DTV, scheduled to take place Feb. 17."



All i want to know is if that happened, would that affect when WKYC moves to a decent part of the electromagnetic spectrum? Do the two events need to be concurrent? I'm sadly guessing the answer is yes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15510443
> 
> 
> 
> All i want to know is if that happened, would that affect when WKYC moves to a decent part of the electromagnetic spectrum? Do the two events need to be concurrent? I'm sadly guessing the answer is yes.



I heard about it this morning. So we should encourage procrastinating in this country?


God, I'm so tired of hearing about this. Another 6 months or a year of "Get Ready for the Digital Conversion."


I say if they ain't ready make them buy cable or satellite. Better yet get rid of the analog cable altogether since that's causing bandwith reduction.


Who knows about WKYC? I can't bring it in OTA as it is now, not a bit. Not that it really matters to my bird but I think part of his plucking problem may have to do with the return of American Idol. How would you like to be in a cage sitting there watching garbage like that?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15510776
> 
> 
> I heard about it this morning. So we should encourage procrastinating in this country?
> 
> 
> God, I'm so tired of hearing about this. Another 6 months or a year of "Get Ready for the Digital Conversion.".........



Delays, cost overruns, missed target dates, poor implementation, confusion.... sounds like a typical govt program to me. You expected better?


CHANGE IS COMING...........except for OTA TV broadcasts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15511333
> 
> 
> Delays, cost overruns, missed target dates, poor implementation, confusion.... sounds like a typical govt program to me. You expected better?
> 
> 
> CHANGE IS COMING...........except for OTA TV broadcasts.



I really don't care. I'm stuck with crummy Time Warner no matter what.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15507034
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, the decision is yours...if you are frustrated by the lack of HD programming on TWC, you have choices. .



Unfortunately, not all of us have a choice. I would probably go to sat in a heartbeat except for my neighbors huge trees blocking any and all shots of the sky from any place on property or roof. (Well, maybe a few of the trees are on my property.)


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15497287
> 
> 
> BTW: Those of you in Akron should have a better shot at Youngstown than those of us up in Cleveland. I was in Akron (I-77 North between downtown and the SR-21 merge) last week and all the Y-Town FM stations were coming in on my car radio as strong as the Cleveland stations...
> 
> 
> ...BTW I use a Silver Sensor for my indoor antenna and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. Being on high ground helps, as well as aiming the antena through a window facing the transmitter. I also have a rooftop UHF antenna aimed at Youngstown, but the wind as knocked it out of whack (my chimney is too small to support the mast properly). I get the other 2 Youngstown stations from the rooftop when the atmosphere assists the signals. WYTV is supposed to get a major power increase soon so that may help get that station here in the near future.



Are you some kind of spokesperson for WKBN-DT?? I sure wish I could get this signal, but I can't since I'm in the valley. Surprisingly, I don't have any issues receiving WOIO-DT though. My rabbit ears work just fine for that here in Akron.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/15511798
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, not all of us have a choice. I would probably go to sat in a heartbeat except for my neighbors huge trees blocking any and all shots of the sky from any place on property or roof. (Well, maybe a few of the trees are on my property.)



I'm actually in the same boat, as is hookbill. Most people in the area are not, though. nickdawg is on the TWC Akron system, and most of that area is urban/suburban without high trees.


There's also U-verse, though I don't think they get out to Doylestown. I thought Doylestown had its own phone/cable company?


So, I do understand the frustration...I just hate reading nickdawg's strongly worded rants laced with dozens of emoticons to make a point.


----------



## nickdawg

I *strongly* suggest everyone here go to this post at Ohio Media Watch and put their $0.02 in on the TWC HD channel situation. I posted a lengthy comment about how there is bandwidth OBVIOUSLY available since *THREE* channels were added for the Olympics and there's no excuse to NOT have USA, F/X and Scifi in HD, since there is some bandwidth available on all of the NE Ohio systems.


If you want to see these channels, post your input and demand we get them!

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...54457754570978 


And look Inundated, I did it without "strong language" and tons of Emoticons!!!


----------



## Vchat20

I usually don't agree with nickdawg much, but with the addition of the fact that at least here in legacy TW territory they have simply replaced a few of the analog channels that have moved to digital only packages with color bar test slides or 'this channel has moved' notices (And unless some out of this world technology has been invented to allow modulation of mpeg transport stream packets over a crystal clear viewable analog channel, the following point stands), someone apparently either isn't doing their job or is really dragging their feet.


These 'color bar' and 'this channel has moved' slides are wasting the same bandwidth as the original channels they replaced. Right now I currently see about 4 here like that in addition to about 2 public access channels that are no longer active but still displaying a picture. It's all a HUGE waste and they are complaining about not having enough bandwidth. Could easily fit in a dozen more HD channels with room to spare if they opened these wasted channel positions up for QAM usage.


And don't even get me started on the tv guide channel being duplicated on THREE different analog channels.


----------



## nickdawg

I did a quick check of the analog channels, what I found:


*78, 79 and 96 are no longer on at all.


*47 is showing color bars


*66 is showing the "this channel moved" slide, even though VERSUS moved back in October


*16 and 99 are showing "TV Guide channel". Since there is no virtual channel mapping on NTSC, TV guide channel exists on TWO physical channels!!

















*75 is Jewelry Television. Is it necessary to have this channel on analog tier?


*MTV2 and VH1 Classic are on 34 and 68 respectively. Is there any justifiable reason to have this many flavors of MTV/VH1 on the analog tier? And these are recent additions. They weren't there until recently. There is NO reason to add to analog channels.


Going with the "1 NTSC channel = 2 ATSC HD channel" formula that has been discussed before, killing just the "empty" channels and the duplicate of TV Guide channel would be enough for 5 or 6 HD channels.


Also, a look at "Suburban Cleveland 3" Lineup shows that there are three "Access" channels in the 20s range in addition to NEON on 23. So, eliminating those three "Access" channels and leaving just the NEON channel would mean that former Adelphia customers could get the same 6 HD channels TWC people would get.


TO make it simple for cable company people to understand:


Cable SystemChannel #New HD ChannelsTWC Legacy47, 66, 996Adelphia20, 21, 226

If 1 NTSC analog = 2 ATSC HD, then these 3 channels would equal *6* ATSC HD channels.


----------



## Vchat20

In addition to those listed channels, on this end of things I also see the following 'empty' channels:


9 (one of the fox stations that got removed. Forget which one or why. Used to be color bars but now dark static.)


12 also has tv guide in addition to 18 and 99 (16 might be the case for you with the public access channels up in the 20s. Ours WERE between 15-17 and all showed the same content.) so technically we have 3 where two could be eliminated.


47 which used to be GAC is dead with the color bars.


66, likewise, has the 'this channel moved' piece with probably the most gaudy font I have seen in ages.


75 is dead here.


78 and 79 are dead signal-wise with static.


96 is running the color bars.


----


Even with the discrepancies and throwing a pessimistic curve on it, we have 3-4 channels that can be opened up for QAM usage. Taking adaptive encoding into account and an average 3:1 ratio for HD channels, that gives us 9-12 channel slots possible.










Really would be nice to get an honest and concise explanation from the bean counters WHY they are falling behind so bad. There really is no legitimate excuse for it honestly. The capacity is there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15514933
> 
> 
> I *strongly* suggest everyone here go to this post at Ohio Media Watch and put their $0.02 in on the TWC HD channel situation. I posted a lengthy comment about how there is bandwidth OBVIOUSLY available since *THREE* channels were added for the Olympics and there's no excuse to NOT have USA, F/X and Scifi in HD, since there is some bandwidth available on all of the NE Ohio systems.
> 
> 
> If you want to see these channels, post your input and demand we get them!
> 
> https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...54457754570978
> 
> 
> 
> And look Inundated, I did it without "strong language" and tons of Emoticons!!!



I took a look and got as far as "Post Deleted" and thought, "that must be nickdawg - but then I saw right under that your post.










Nice argurment nickdawg. Kudos.


----------



## hookbill

I sent the OMW guy an email thanking him for posting that, he responded by saying thank the guy who gave him the long response. He also asked me what channels I be interested in seeing, so I told him FX, USA, SciFi, and SPIKE.


----------



## Tim Lones

According to OHio Media Watch, WMFD-TV Channel 68 in Mansfield, Ohio has been added on Dish Network's Cleveland area lineup-Using it's digital channel 12..

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/01/snowy-update.html 


Scroll down, or read down to the last article..


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15515233
> 
> 
> I did a quick check of the analog channels, what I found:



OK, let's take this apart:



> Quote:
> *78, 79 and 96 are no longer on at all.



Presumably, then, no bandwidth is being wasted...whether it is available to reclaim, I couldn't tell you.



> Quote:
> *47 is showing color bars



A waste of bandwidth, as those take up the space on analog just as much as if it was a fully-programmed channel.



> Quote:
> *66 is showing the "this channel moved" slide, even though VERSUS moved back in October



As above. (Assuming, in both cases, you aren't seeing a QAM channel squeezed down into your digital box at that channel position...I suppose you could only know if you looked on an analog cable hookup.)



> Quote:
> *16 and 99 are showing "TV Guide channel". Since there is no virtual channel mapping on NTSC, TV guide channel exists on TWO physical channels!!



Does 16 do anything else? I know a lot of the access channels put up TV Guide Network when there is no local access programming.



> Quote:
> *75 is Jewelry Television. Is it necessary to have this channel on analog tier?



Here we start getting into murky waters.


I personally would not mind seeing Jewelry Television and all the shopping channels jettisoned high into the digital numbers where I never see them. (There is actually a neighborhood up there for them.)


But neither of us knows what kind of contract TWC has with any of the shopping channels. They well could be getting a cut of sales from their viewers. The contract may even specify analog placement.



> Quote:
> *MTV2 and VH1 Classic are on 34 and 68 respectively. Is there any justifiable reason to have this many flavors of MTV/VH1 on the analog tier? And these are recent additions. They weren't there until recently. There is NO reason to add to analog channels.



I'd agree with you, but we don't know how the contract with MTVNetworks is set up. They may require analog carriage of the lesser flavors of MTV and VH1.


There are folks who could argue that ESPN2 and other ESPN channels don't belong on analog, either.



> Quote:
> Also, a look at "Suburban Cleveland 3" Lineup shows that there are three "Access" channels in the 20s range in addition to NEON on 23. So, eliminating those three "Access" channels and leaving just the NEON channel would mean that former Adelphia customers could get the same 6 HD channels TWC people would get.



You can play around with the access channels in your head all you want, but many are mandated by franchise agreements. And due to the way the system is likely set up, they have to mark aside the access channels within a segment of the system...even if they aren't actually being used, just so they can be elsewhere on that same leg of the TWC system.


(i.e., I believe Brecksville has an access channel, but we don't down here in the Akron half of the former Adelphia system, but they have to have the space for the Brecksville access channel set aside here because we otherwise have the same lineup/headend...that last part is just a guess.)


(And yes, I'm aware of the new statewide law, but I believe incumbent cable companies still have to figure some way to accomodate the previous franchise agreements in regard to so-called "PEG" - "Public, Educational, Government" - channels.)


So, getting to "6 new channels" is not as easy as you think it is.


Even so, it's quite possible that if they could launch a couple or three (or whatever) new HD channels, they're actually waiting until the SDV completion to add those AND whatever new channels they would be able to add with SDV's additional bandwidth.


If it's supposedly happening in the next 2-3 months or so, why trickle it out? Again, they have to advertise it, and it's a lot easier to advertise all of 'em at once then to mount a campaign for 2-3 channels in January and another 10 or 15 (or whatever) in March or April.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15517801
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> *78, 79 and 96 are no longer on at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably, then, no bandwidth is being wasted...whether it is available to reclaim, I couldn't tell you.
Click to expand...


Actually, all these channels are running the color bars and are wasting bandwidth. This is what I assume he was trying to get across.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15517828
> 
> 
> Actually, all these channels are running the color bars and are wasting bandwidth. This is what I assume he was trying to get across.



Again, I'm on the old Adelphia system with a slightly different lineup. I assumed from his message that he wouldn't have separately mentioned 47 as having color bars, if the other ones he listed above had them as well.


Here in ex-Adelphia land, they dumped 15 entirely when they moved NEON to 23. If I try tuning to it with my analog-set-up Slingbox tuner, nothing shows up. That's what I thought he meant by "not at all".


----------



## Inundated

Well, what do you know...they have color bars on analog 15 now!


This is a new development...15 was totally missing when they turned on 23 for NEON.


Well...assuming they aren't going to put anything on 15 analog, it's a waste either way. And they just scooted SCOLA up from 16 into digital cable land, and added (required/must carry) WDLI/17 on 16.


----------



## hookbill

I've got a bit of a break down myself on how much bandwith analog, digital, and HD take. This is by size of recordings. 1 hour of analog 3.64 gb. 1 hour of digital about 1.50gb. HD uses the most space and it varies but it's around 5.30 to 7.05 gb per 1 hour show.


Those numbers there say alot. Analog takes over twice as much space as digital.


All that wasted bandwith.










Makes me want to join nickdawg's anti analog campaign.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15516040
> 
> 
> According to OHio Media Watch, WMFD-TV Channel 68 in Mansfield, Ohio has been added on Dish Network's Cleveland area lineup-Using it's digital channel 12..
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/01/snowy-update.html
> 
> 
> Scroll down, or read down to the last article..



I've been waiting for WMFD to appear on my E* service for some time now. Now that I have it I want to drive down there and have a word with their engineer (I presume they only have a budget for one person and he's probably only part-time).


Their audio sounds like an overmodulated AM station. Since they are the first digital only independent station they need to start improving thier infrastructure. They look like an analog LPTV station who gets digitized at the transmitter (i.e. all analog up to the stick). They are like the first CD's from the 80's "AAD"







.


I actually like one program they carry: "Tech Closeup".


For those of us clamoring for a true independent station in the Cleveland market, WMFD is it.


They are using their virtural ch 68 OTA and on DirecTV, but Dish chose to put them on their RF channel 12. In a way that is better exposure, seeing how somone will now have to scroll past WMFD on their way from WJW to WOIO.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-net...3-changes.html


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15517927
> 
> 
> I've got a bit of a break down myself on how much bandwith analog, digital, and HD take. This is by size of recordings. 1 hour of analog 3.64 gb. 1 hour of digital about 1.50gb. HD uses the most space and it varies but it's around 5.30 to 7.05 gb per 1 hour show.
> 
> 
> Those numbers there say alot. Analog takes over twice as much space as digital.
> 
> 
> All that wasted bandwith.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Makes me want to join nickdawg's anti analog campaign.



The problem is that the mpeg2 encoders sitting in TW's headends are MUCH more specialized and can squeeze more quality in less bandwidth compared to the more commodity encoders in your Tivo. Add on the fact that the Tivo has to deal with analog noise where TW is getting a good digital signal to begin with from many of it's feeds to encode from.


That's why your analog recordings are using up so much more space. I saw the same situation as well way back on my SA8000 when there were still some analog channels that were not digitally simulcast. Those channels that had to be encoded by the set-top used much more space than some of the channels that were coming in digitally.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15514239
> 
> 
> 
> There's also U-verse, though I don't think they get out to Doylestown. I thought Doylestown had its own phone/cable company?



Yes, Doylestown Telephone was one of the first companies in Ohio to go all fiber optic. They own Bright.net and Ohio.net ISP's. Unfortunately, their cable company currently lags behind TWNEO and since I have a choice, I go with TW for cable. BTW, that competition makes TW prices lower in Doylestown than in Akron.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15512095
> 
> 
> Are you some kind of spokesperson for WKBN-DT?? I sure wish I could get this signal, but I can't since I'm in the valley. Surprisingly, I don't have any issues receiving WOIO-DT though. My rabbit ears work just fine for that here in Akron.



No, but you have to admit they have a killer signal: WKBN Coverage Map 


Have you tried an outdoor antenna aimed due east (or a litle bit north of due east from Akron)? They have enough power coupled with height to get a "grade A" signal from Cleveland to Pittsburgh. Now if only the Cleveland stations had such coverage nobody would be complaining! Stations like WOIO are leaning on the cable and satellite carriers to get their signal to the outer reaches of the Cleveland DMA. That's "stinkin' thinkin'"


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15517889
> 
> 
> Well, what do you know...they have color bars on analog 15 now!
> 
> 
> This is a new development...15 was totally missing when they turned on 23 for NEON.
> 
> 
> Well...assuming they aren't going to put anything on 15 analog, it's a waste either way. And they just scooted SCOLA up from 16 into digital cable land, and added (required/must carry) WDLI/17 on 16.



Yeah. That's exactly what we've been saying (GOD this just does not feel right agreeing with nickdawg. The hell that is northern ohio has frozen over. LOL







). A number of these channels are still running some form of static analog video feed which is still wasting bandwidth. They would have been much better off leaving the channels intact so at least some CONTENT was there. This alone, disbarring the SDV situation and reasoning given on the ohiomedia blog, is one big beef I have with how they are running things in this area. That and the duplicated tv guide channels (which are NOT lumped in with the public access programming at least here. They run 24/7. All 3 of them.).


But all in all, I have at least some faith after the given explanation that once they can get SDV sorted out that we'll start seeing some actual progress. Given that they are trying to keep everything uniform across the whole NEO region, the mixture of hardware and programming and whatnot acquired from the Adelphia and Comcast areas were bound to bring things to a grinding halt and it's obviously gonna take some time to sort it all and make it all uniform. I just hoped they would have been a little more prompt about it up to this point is all.


As far as some of the arguments about the faux-HD channels, let me pose this scenario: As far as I can tell, the Sci-Fi channel has very few native HD programs. The biggest one so far is BSG. Now according to some of the arguments, TW should forego adding Sci-Fi HD till ALL of their programming is HD. Think that is right? I don't. Basically giving you HD channels of those with little HD programming is for future-proofing. As they begin to add more HD content, you can actually watch it rather than waiting till they go 100% HD. In essence, quityerbitchin! And be glad that you get ANY HD programming with the already anemic lineup here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15518157
> 
> 
> Y
> 
> As far as some of the arguments about the faux-HD channels, let me pose this scenario: As far as I can tell, the Sci-Fi channel has very few native HD programs. The biggest one so far is BSG. Now according to some of the arguments, TW should forego adding Sci-Fi HD till ALL of their programming is HD. Think that is right? I don't. Basically giving you HD channels of those with little HD programming is for future-proofing. As they begin to add more HD content, you can actually watch it rather than waiting till they go 100% HD. In essence, quityerbitchin! And be glad that you get ANY HD programming with the already anemic lineup here.



SciFi HD does have original programming, and I do believe that is in HD. That's all I watch is their original programming.


I'll be honest: If I could have just one other channel it would be FX. And I really don't care if they ever implement SDV.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15518315
> 
> 
> SciFi HD does have original programming, and I do believe that is in HD. That's all I watch is their original programming.



Well, unfortunately I don't watch it all that much to care. But you do get my point (I hope). The people complaining about channels with either stretched or pillarboxed programming wanting them gone or replaced with other HD channels need to realise that some people DO watch those channels and offering the HD channels gives them room to grow and add more HD programming over time. Saying that they should wait until every last second of programming is in HD before they offer it is just assinine. We'd be waiting for years at that rate. Not to mention the fact that the content providers would see even less incentive to add HD programming if that came to pass.


----------



## nickdawg

To answer those earlier questions:


78, 79, 96 are completely off. There's just "fuzz" on the screen.


16 is TV Guide channel only. Our equivalent of the "Access" channel is 15, which shows Akron Public School info during the day and the down time is filled with cheezy "local" programming or a simulcast of one Music Choice channel.


99 is also TV Guide channel only.


66 is "Versus has moved..." PP slide. It can only be seen w/o a box, so it has to be pure analog. So they're wasting bandwidth to let people without a box know they need a box for this channel, which moved in late October.


47 has been color bars only w/o a box since at least March(around channel change time).


As far as MTV2/VH1 CL all I can think is since other areas used to have these channels in analog, TWC's "NE Ohio blanket system" as they like to call it now, is trying to offer similar lineups. I'm sure MTV Networks wouldn't mind if ALL systems moved MTV2/VH1 CL to digital only. TWC did move one of the country music stations off analog 47 to digital only.


And as far as adding new HD channels, I say why not add some in January or February? If they're truly serious about SDV, give your customers some incentive to stay. Even if it is only 4, 6 or 9 channels. That would still put us over 20 in terms of national cable HD channels. Better than the current 14. It's embarrassing!!!


What they should do is add a few popular ones with lots of HD like USA, F/X and SPIKE TV. Add those channels and advertise it as "the first of many more new HD channels coming soon". Give us some reason to stay with your company. Just give us SOMETHING SOON!!! That was the message in my comment at OMW.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15518347
> 
> 
> Well, unfortunately I don't watch it all that much to care. But you do get my point (I hope). The people complaining about channels with either stretched or pillarboxed programming wanting them gone or replaced with other HD channels need to realise that some people DO watch those channels and offering the HD channels gives them room to grow and add more HD programming over time. Saying that they should wait until every last second of programming is in HD before they offer it is just assinine. We'd be waiting for years at that rate. Not to mention the fact that the content providers would see even less incentive to add HD programming if that came to pass.



Nope, I don't get your point. Well, actually I understand what you are saying but I disagree.










Here's my point: I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. I hear people complain about TNT. Well, I watch TNTHD a good deal and I only watch shows that are in HD and are original programming. Do I watch it as much as the networks? No.


SciFi has shows like Eureka on it that I would love to see in HD with Dolby 5.1. Let's take A&E for another example. Now I do watch one or two shows on that channel but I think it's a waste of HD space. Why? Because they do not offer Dolby 5.1, and for those of us who invested in a sound system that's a big deal.


History Channel I watch sometimes. Food Network, never. Home & Garden never.


I'm not going to watch something just because it's in HD. It's got to be something that I consider quality as well.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519215
> 
> 
> Nope, I don't get your point. Well, actually I understand what you are saying but I disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my point: I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. I hear people complain about TNT. Well, I watch TNTHD a good deal and I only watch shows that are in HD and are original programming. Do I watch it as much as the networks? No.
> 
> 
> SciFi has shows like Eureka on it that I would love to see in HD with Dolby 5.1. Let's take A&E for another example. Now I do watch one or two shows on that channel but I think it's a waste of HD space. Why? Because they do not offer Dolby 5.1, and for those of us who invested in a sound system that's a big deal.
> 
> 
> History Channel I watch sometimes. Food Network, never. Home & Garden never.
> 
> 
> I'm not going to watch something just because it's in HD. It's got to be something that I consider quality as well.



And the whole point is that you are willing to shun these channels even though they have SOME legit HD programming instead of giving them a chance to make changes and upgrade and whatnot.


There are many reasons why a channel may not have 5.1 audio or actual HD copies of their shows when they were originally shot in HD. Doesn't mean it's all permanent. When it comes to cable networks, HD is still quite in it's infancy. For a number of stations it is still more a novelty-like deal. But give them time to upgrade equipment and bring on more HD content and it's all bound to change for the better. But if you shun them now for not having it all 100% this exact second, what incentive is there to make these changes?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15519292
> 
> 
> And the whole point is that you are willing to shun these channels even though they have SOME legit HD programming instead of giving them a chance to make changes and upgrade and whatnot.



I don't think we are understanding each other. Exactly what channels are you talking about?


I don't have a problem with any HD channel, I'm just saying that right now since we can't have as many channels as Buffalo, NY, I'm giving my opinion on what I'd like to see. Of course, YMMV.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15519292
> 
> 
> There are many reasons why a channel may not have 5.1 audio or actual HD copies of their shows when they were originally shot in HD. Doesn't mean it's all permanent. When it comes to cable networks, HD is still quite in it's infancy. For a number of stations it is still more a novelty-like deal. But give them time to upgrade equipment and bring on more HD content and it's all bound to change for the better. But if you shun them now for not having it all 100% this exact second, what incentive is there to make these changes?



Infancy? Hardly.


I remember the infancy, and I'm here to tell you it's come a long, long way baby.







(That's the theme for an old Virginia Slims commercial)










I've given them plenty of time. I had HD for 3 years now, how about you? Isn't that long enough? I've seen them going from downtime for hours to consistent quality HD. I want Dolby 5.1, and if I don't get it, I don't like it.


What I'm saying is that if A&E was going to get Dolby 5.1 they would have done so by now. I'll bet you 500 cyber bucks you won't see Dolby 5.1 on A&E for years to come.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519215
> 
> 
> Nope, I don't get your point. Well, actually I understand what you are saying but I disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my point: I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch. I hear people complain about TNT. Well, I watch TNTHD a good deal and I only watch shows that are in HD and are original programming. Do I watch it as much as the networks? No.
> 
> 
> SciFi has shows like Eureka on it that I would love to see in HD with Dolby 5.1. Let's take A&E for another example. Now I do watch one or two shows on that channel but I think it's a waste of HD space. Why? Because they do not offer Dolby 5.1, and for those of us who invested in a sound system that's a big deal.
> 
> 
> History Channel I watch sometimes. Food Network, never. Home & Garden never.
> 
> 
> I'm not going to watch something just because it's in HD. It's got to be something that I consider quality as well.



I almost completely agree. I hate TNT, but I'd keep it for the NBA and your shows







. I'd like it better if they'd show HD shows in HD. Bones on TNT HD is 100% stretch, even though it has been HD from the start. Also, many of the older episodes of Charmed are HD. C'mon TNT, I want hot witches in HD!!!!


TBS can be nuked to hell!!! Along with Jeff Foxworthy and the rest of their garbage original programming. I only watch one show on TBS, Married With Children, and I ALWAYS record it on TBS SD.


A&E and History are crap. 2.0 audio and stretching. I cannot stand History stretching new letterbox programmming. I don't even record on History HD anymore after being burned on too many stretched shows. I don't even watch A&E, other than the occasional CSI: Miami. But I don't need that in HD.


HGTV, I never even watched that in SD. Total waste.


I do watch Food HD, Giada in HD is a must!





















Food has more HD programming than HGTV, so it's not a total waste.


Discovery HDT = TOTAL F**KING WASTE!!! _I don't want to have a channel that has nothing but HD if it's something I'm not going to watch._ Exactly. I really wish this channel would go away and be replaced by a simulcast of the main Discovery channel. I hate these "HD only" channels that show a loop of the same stupid shows. I want to see Dirty Jobs and Mythbusters. DJ is never on this channel and I think Mythbusters was on early in the morning once. This channel is equivalent to the stuff they show on all the TVs at Best Buy so "the screen is filled" all the time and it's bright and flashy.


On the other hand, USA is almost all HD, except for "Wings", early episodes of "Becker", some "L&O" and paid programming at night. All the new shows are HD, NCIS is HD, House is HD, L&O both flavors is HD, Burn Notice, Psych, Monk, In Plain Sight, The Starter Wife = HD, HD, HD, HD and HD! Movies are HD.


Same goes with F/X. All new dramas, except for "The Shield" are HD. "Malcolm in the Middle" is HD. Only the older sitcoms(Spin City, KOTH, That 70s Show) are not HD along with paid programming. Most of the movies are HD and even OAR too!! Plus, USA and F/X do not stretch SD programming.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519375
> 
> 
> I don't think we are understanding each other. Exactly what channels are you talking about?
> 
> 
> I don't have a problem with any HD channel, I'm just saying that right now since we can't have as many channels as Buffalo, NY, I'm giving my opinion on what I'd like to see. Of course, YMMV.



Sorry. I got caught up in my initial beef which was those who are saying that the likes of TBS, TNT, and A&E should be completely eliminiated in favor of other channels just because they don't have 100% round the clock HD programming.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519375
> 
> 
> Infancy? Hardly.
> 
> 
> I remember the infancy, and I'm here to tell you it's come a long, long way baby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (That's the theme for an old Virginia Slims commercial)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've given them plenty of time. I had HD for 3 years now, how about you? Isn't that long enough? I've seen them going from downtime for hours to consistent quality HD. I want Dolby 5.1, and if I don't get it, I don't like it.
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is that if A&E was going to get Dolby 5.1 they would have done so by now. I'll bet you 500 cyber bucks you won't see Dolby 5.1 on A&E for years to come.



Which channels are you talking about? Surely quite a handful haven't been around 3+ years. And as far as the A&E situation is concerned: How much of their programming, original or not, actually have 5.1 audio to begin with? I'm genuinely curious because as far as I have seen over the years (of course, I don't have a 5.1 system to verify for 100% certain), outside of movies and some fairly recent big rating primetime programming, Dolby 5.1 is fairly rare. As well, unless I am mistaken it is quite another matter to switch the audio from, say, 2.0 PCM to Dolby 5.1 mid-stream and play nice with consumer audio equipment so they either have to go 2.0 all the time or upconvert 2.0 audio to 5.1 before it's distributed (once again, not sure about this one. Someone more techy please correct me on this one).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15519292
> 
> 
> And the whole point is that you are willing to shun these channels even though they have SOME legit HD programming instead of giving them a chance to make changes and upgrade and whatnot.
> 
> 
> There are many reasons why a channel may not have 5.1 audio or actual HD copies of their shows when they were originally shot in HD. Doesn't mean it's all permanent. When it comes to cable networks, HD is still quite in it's infancy. For a number of stations it is still more a novelty-like deal. But give them time to upgrade equipment and bring on more HD content and it's all bound to change for the better. But if you shun them now for not having it all 100% this exact second, what incentive is there to make these changes?



I think the point is since we are currently limited, TWC should be interested in providing "the best quality with mass appeal". Carrying TBS in 2007 after MLB when it was stretched 24/7 was disgusting. They wasted limited bandwidth on a crap channel. Carrying Big Ten HD right now is a mistake. Any game that has appeal in Ohio could be carried on the HD bonus channel. There's no need to show a channel 24/7 in HD when they're showing OLD games in SD with patterned sidebars














. It's bull.


HGTV? In HD? Are they kidding? How much interest is there in that channel? Much of the programming is stretched anyway. Plus, the ratings are nowhere near USA "Cable's #1 Network". Another TWC boner carrying that channel.


History and A&E, if this were a bandwidth unlimited system, they'd be OK. But since we're limited, there's no room for shoddy channels with no 5.1 and stretched pictures. USA, F/X and Spike TV are all OAR on non HD content.


----------



## Vchat20

Thing is though that these channels all have SOME true HD content however limited it may be which is the TRUE point of HD channels (You can get 5.1 audio with the SD digital channels on a technical basis. Doesn't require an HD set or box). And we don't know what the business/logistics reasons were for choosing these channels over others. Maybe TWCNEO was just offered more money by TBS, TNT, etal than say USA or FX and they decided to take those in their limited slots? Who knows. Beggars can't be choosers especially around these parts. Like I said, these channels show at least some true HD content however limited it might be. And for stuff like movies on TNT and TBS, it may not always be OAR, but you can hardly tell unless you are real anal about it and the actual PQ barring aspect ratio issues always seems to come out top notch even on real old movies.


Heck, we have STO in HD which still seems to run quite a bit of SD programming and does mostly Browns and Indians events at that and I haven't seen anyone complain about that one being around yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15519580
> 
> 
> Thing is though that these channels all have SOME true HD content however limited it may be which is the TRUE point of HD channels (You can get 5.1 audio with the SD digital channels on a technical basis. Doesn't require an HD set or box). And we don't know what the business/logistics reasons were for choosing these channels over others. Maybe TWCNEO was just offered more money by TBS, TNT, etal than say USA or FX and they decided to take those in their limited slots? Who knows. Beggars can't be choosers especially around these parts. Like I said, these channels show at least some true HD content however limited it might be. And for stuff like movies on TNT and TBS, it may not always be OAR, but you can hardly tell unless you are real anal about it and the actual PQ barring aspect ratio issues always seems to come out top notch even on real old movies.
> 
> 
> Heck, we have STO in HD which still seems to run quite a bit of SD programming and does mostly Browns and Indians events at that and I haven't seen anyone complain about that one being around yet.



A&E doesn't have 5.1 at all. And you're right technically they should be able to do Dolby 5.1 on SD....but they don't.


As far as money goes, I have no idea how it works but FX and USA are in HD on other TW systems. I would (yes, I know) *ass*u*me* that all of TW should be part of that, but who the heck knows?


----------



## hookbill

Not trying to extend my post count here, honestly but isn't the true point that if TWC wanted to, right now, they still could add HD channels. They are not maxed out on bandwith and I'm not saying they should be but come on, throw us a bone with a little meat on it. Like FX!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519783
> 
> 
> A&E doesn't have 5.1 at all. And you're right technically they should be able to do Dolby 5.1 on SD....but they don't.
> 
> 
> As far as money goes, I have no idea how it works but FX and USA are in HD on other TW systems. I would (yes, I know) *ass*u*me* that all of TW should be part of that, but who the heck knows?



USA HD is 5.1. AFAIK, so is F/X and most other HD channels. History/A&E are unique in NEVER offering any 5.1 audio. And I know their new shows could be. CSI Miami is 5.1.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519805
> 
> 
> Not trying to extend my post count here, honestly but isn't the true point that if TWC wanted to, right now, they still could add HD channels. They are not maxed out on bandwith and I'm not saying they should be but come on, throw us a bone with a little meat on it. Like FX!



Exactly!! They could. But as much as they pretend to care, they don't. I'm in shock that OMW was able to get that much out of TWC!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> I am very happy with the service and offerings that I receive with TWC. The number of HD channels available
> 
> currently are fine. I am willing to wait patiently for the upgrade. Moreover, the analog channels and SD channels that currently exist are more than adequate.



Who the hell posted this tripe on OMW? Someone trying to make Hookbill look bad? The poster's name is "hookworm".

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...54457754570978


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15519805
> 
> 
> Not trying to extend my post count here, honestly but isn't the true point that if TWC wanted to, right now, they still could add HD channels. They are not maxed out on bandwith and I'm not saying they should be but come on, throw us a bone with a little meat on it. Like FX!



It would appear that they could throw on one or two channels (my guess) before SDV, but there could be other reasons stopping that - that we don't know about.


My guess is still marketing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15520094
> 
> 
> Who the hell posted this tripe on OMW? Someone trying to make Hookbill look bad? The poster's name is "hookworm".
> 
> https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...54457754570978



Take a look again.


----------



## Vchat20

Not to be a TWC kiss-ass here (believe me, I want more HD channels just as bad as you all do), but who knows why they aren't adding more HD channels? We honestly do not know because Mr. Fry and co never tell us exactly WHY.


~Maybe they are indeed in a bandwidth crunch and silently cut back on HSI/Phone channels during the olympics to fit in USA, FX, etc.?

~Marketing could also be another reason and they are waiting till SDV comes around so they can advertise TONS of added HD channels instead of just a small handful every couple months.


We don't know the real story. But with the posting on OMW, I' slowly starting to lean towards there being a fully legitimate reason behind this and the whole Adelphia/Comcast mess is what is holding it all back currently which is to be expected.


I don't think many realise that the old adage of 'You can't please everyone all of the time' very much comes into play here. I'm not infallible, I miss this myself too sometimes. TWCNEO could leave the legacy/comcast/adelphia areas separated with different lineups, different channel offerings, different set-tops, different firmwares, etc.. Some of us would be happy, many of us wouldn't. It's all a roll of the dice. The brains behind all this at TWCNEO probably just took the most logical and cleanest solution possible when they decided to lump the different headends together and try to make every area identical.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15520228
> 
> 
> Take a look again.



(Cheers & Applause)


----------



## Inundated

Vchat said it much better than I did, so I'll point to his last message and say "what he said", and await the new channels whenever they do show up.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15520094
> 
> 
> Who the hell posted this tripe on OMW? Someone trying to make Hookbill look bad? The poster's name is "hookworm".
> 
> https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...54457754570978



HA!

















The only thing missing from that post (and I suspect the real author is Mrs. Jasso) is: ".....in fact, I feel I am way undercharged for such wonderful services so I'm sending an extra $10 a month when paying my TWC bill..."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15520072
> 
> 
> USA HD is 5.1. AFAIK, so is F/X and most other HD channels. History/A&E are unique in NEVER offering any 5.1 audio. And I know their new shows could be. CSI Miami is 5.1.



I didn't know History HD was not in Dolby 5.1 because I only watch it in the bedroom where there is not Dolby 5.1.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15523059
> 
> 
> HA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing missing from that post (and I suspect the real author is Mrs. Jasso) is: ".....in fact, I feel I am way undercharged for such wonderful services so I'm sending an extra $10 a month when paying my TWC bill..."



Interesting that the name they took was hookworm. That's kind of what TW does, they are *fishing* for answers to their HD problems.










Some birds (not parrots) eat worms. Upon seeing that I had to post to clear my "good" name.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15523153
> 
> 
> Interesting that the name they took was hookworm. That's kind of what TW does, they are *fishing* for answers to their HD problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some birds (not parrots) eat worms. Upon seeing that I had to post to clear my "good" name.



Maybe they know you are the one who plays the "Fry Card" all the time and want to get back? Sleazy, dirty, underhanded? Remind you of anyone?


TWC of course!!


----------



## Lighting Guy

I'm with this guy! There's some good points in there about how Feb. 17 is the one that's been advertised, and will probably actually confuse more people. Also the scheduling engineers comment. Come on, we want WKYC on a higher channel soon









http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/200901...dtv_transition


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/15527015
> 
> 
> I'm with this guy! There's some good points in there about how Feb. 17 is the one that's been advertised, and will probably actually confuse more people. Also the scheduling engineers comment. Come on, we want WKYC on a higher channel soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/200901...dtv_transition



Yeah, how hard can it be to remove the expiration? I say go for it!


----------



## Trip in VA

For once in his career, Kevin Martin is right about something!


I remember an old saying about stopped clocks...


- Trip


----------



## smoti17

I emailed the TWC guy Bill Jasso quoted in the OMW blog at about what HD channels I want: SciFi, Weather, PBS 45/49, (& BBC World in SD). He replied within an hour saying he appreciated my input, so here's your chance everyone.


I also moaned to him and posted to the OMW blog about the huge analog channel bandwidth waste. While 1 analog channel can carry 1-2 HD channels, it could carry as much as 5-8 SD digital channels. So they could crunch those 60+ analog channels into maybe 10 multiplexes of digital, give everyone a much better SD picture, and free up room for another 50 HD channels ! And still leave 20-odd Basic Analog channels for the Joe sixpacks locked into the 1980s...


No SDV needed, either. And channel/multiplex bandwidth allocation is dynamic - when the content on a digital channel is not full HD, it doesn't have to use the full capacity, there's room for other channels on that multiplex.


They've been doing this most other places for a decade now - why is it so hard for TWC NEO to do this math ?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/15527565
> 
> 
> I emailed the TWC guy Bill Jasso quoted in the OMW blog at about what HD channels I want: SciFi, Weather, PBS 45/49, (& BBC World in SD). He replied within an hour saying he appreciated my input, so here's your chance everyone.
> 
> 
> I also moaned to him and posted to the OMW blog about the huge analog channel bandwidth waste. While 1 analog channel can carry 1-2 HD channels, it could carry as much as 5-8 SD digital channels. So they could crunch those 60+ analog channels into maybe 10 multiplexes of digital, give everyone a much better SD picture, and free up room for another 50 HD channels ! And still leave 20-odd Basic Analog channels for the Joe sixpacks locked into the 1980s...
> 
> 
> No SDV needed, either. And channel/multiplex bandwidth allocation is dynamic - when the content on a digital channel is not full HD, it doesn't have to use the full capacity, there's room for other channels on that multiplex.
> 
> 
> They've been doing this most other places for a decade now - why is it so hard for TWC NEO to do this math ?



What did he say? Any more info or was it just the generic form response?


----------



## smoti17

He just thanked me for my input, and said they'd get the technical work done as quickly as they could.


I don't have high hopes, but at least he's making the effort to be seen to be listening.


----------



## Inundated

Smoti, I think you're a bit optimistic about TWC abandoning all but a few analog channels, at least now. There's still a market for the analog service, though it's diminishing by the day.


My gut feeling is that within a year of whenever they manage to do the digital OTA transition, this sort of thing will start happening en masse. It's already been posted that the Clear Picture/Massillon Cable systems will be going 100% digital with cheap analog-to-digital converters for the low-end customers...I haven't checked recently, but I think they were trying to time that with the OTA transition.


----------



## GregF2

Is anyone notice on TW watching HD Channels, ie Golden Globes, 24 that there are slight pauses with a stop in video and momentary no sound, then the program keeps going when watching live tv? Can't figure out why this is happening.


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15528482
> 
> 
> Is anyone notice on TW watching HD Channels, ie Golden Globes, 24 that there are slight pauses with a stop in video and momentary no sound, then the program keeps going when watching live tv? Can't figure out why this is happening.



Watching via QAM and haven't seen any pauses


----------



## GregF2

I wonder if that means my Motorola 6412 is going bad or if it is a problem with our local cable lines. I live in Amherst, OH.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/15529108
> 
> 
> Watching via QAM and haven't seen any pauses


----------



## smoti17

I have little to no optimism they'll get around to making sensible use of their analog spectrum anytime soon, just venting. I just hope that when they get around to offering more HD channels on their vaunted SDV platform they'll pay attention to which ones I want, because you can guarantee we won't get them all...


Keith


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/15532995
> 
> 
> I have little to no optimism they'll get around to making sensible use of their analog spectrum anytime soon, just venting. I just hope that when they get around to offering more HD channels on their vaunted SDV platform they'll pay attention to which ones I want, because you can guarantee we won't get them all...
> 
> 
> Keith




That's the big question in my book. I have maybe 3 additional HD channels I'm interested in, and quite honestly most of what they offer now I don't watch (like TBS).


But what I like and what you like - that's the issue. As I know from experience on this thread one man's garbage is another man's pie.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15533317
> 
> 
> That's the big question in my book. I have maybe 3 additional HD channels I'm interested in, and quite honestly most of what they offer now I don't watch (like TBS).
> 
> 
> But what I like and what you like - that's the issue. As I know from experience on this thread one man's garbage is another man's pie.



Add Discovery HDT to that list with TBS. I swear all they show on that channel are f**king CAR SHOWS!!! The same damn car shows on a loop. Isn't that why we have a Speed channel? I've been hoping those HD "niche" channels would go away soon. Mojo HD already bit the dust, let HDT be next. I actually like Universal HD now that it is like a "USA 2" channel showing Monk, Psych and Burn Notice.


Oh, and about Monk and Psych, I found them from USA HD thanks to my friend BT. No more analog windowboxed USA SD here anymore!!! Eat it, Time Warner!!!


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15529201
> 
> 
> I wonder if that means my Motorola 6412 is going bad or if it is a problem with our local cable lines. I live in Amherst, OH.



Greg FWIW, I didn't see any pauses and I'm in Amherst TWP and was watching Mr. Bauer kicking butt


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15538700
> 
> 
> Greg FWIW, I didn't see any pauses and I'm in Amherst TWP and was watching Mr. Bauer kicking butt



Maybe we should tell ol' Jack that if TWC isn't providing 50+ HD channels in the next 24 hours, something seriously bad will happen. Yea, that will do the job...










(Side note: Sunday's episode was good, but Monday's was...well...really cool. Groups of possible scenarios bouncing around in my head.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15540363
> 
> 
> Maybe we should tell ol' Jack that if TWC isn't providing 50+ HD channels in the next 24 hours, something seriously bad will happen. Yea, that will do the job...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Side note: Sunday's episode was good, but Monday's was...well...really cool. Groups of possible scenarios bouncing around in my head.)



Hey...no discussing shows around here. I got as far as Sunday's was good.


I probably won't get to it for a few weeks!


Of course mnowlin you probably recorded it on the TiVo - and FWIW those moto boxes are part of the problem. Eventually they will have to replace those for SDV.


----------



## GregF2

Thanks, luckily it went away last night. I did not like watching Jack being paused every time he said or did something important Sunday night.







What a great show. Wish it was on every night!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15538700
> 
> 
> Greg FWIW, I didn't see any pauses and I'm in Amherst TWP and was watching Mr. Bauer kicking butt


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15540926
> 
> 
> Thanks, luckily it went away last night. I did not like watching Jack being paused every time he said or did something important Sunday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a great show. Wish it was on every night!



I recorded Sunday's 2-hrs on my 8300 and it played back fine, even when the recording of last night's 2-hrs started. In fact, I watched all 4 hours last night before CSI Miami and have concluded that's the only way to watch it!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15540947
> 
> 
> I recorded Sunday's 2-hrs on my 8300 and it played back fine, even when the recording of last night's 2-hrs started. In fact, I watched all 4 hours last night before CSI Miami and have concluded that's the only way to watch it!



SARA or Navigator?


----------



## GregF2

Hookbill: if the motorola boxes are part of the problem, can I exchange mine at TW for a different HD/DVR box that might be better or do I have to wait.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15540847
> 
> 
> Hey...no discussing shows around here. I got as far as Sunday's was good.
> 
> 
> I probably won't get to it for a few weeks!
> 
> 
> Of course mnowlin you probably recorded it on the TiVo - and FWIW those moto boxes are part of the problem. Eventually they will have to replace those for SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15540847
> 
> 
> Hey...no discussing shows around here. I got as far as Sunday's was good.
> 
> 
> I probably won't get to it for a few weeks!



And I probably won't see it until I get it from BT. I deleted it last night







. I turned it on to see the obnoxious FOX bug, and when I stopped it I deleted it.
































> Quote:
> Of course mnowlin you probably recorded it on the TiVo - and FWIW those moto boxes are part of the problem. Eventually they will have to replace those for SDV.



Motorola boxes? I hope they makes those swim with the fishes, just like the Pioneer boxes!































Not necessarily. Navigator is a cross-platform software. It's currently running here on both old Pioneer and SA boxes. And the Motorola boxes can run multiple software too. Either whatever firmware Motorola uses or Passport DCT(which is another reason why TWC is f**king stoopid for dumping Passport







)


As long as they can download Navigator to those Moto boxes, they shouldn't be a problem with SDV. Even the old Pioneer boxes can run SDV without problems.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15543361
> 
> 
> Hookbill: if the motorola boxes are part of the problem, can I exchange mine at TW for a different HD/DVR box that might be better or do I have to wait.



Check with your local TWC office. It's a case of one area has one thing and another area another. Or whatever the office has in stock.


My guess would be they'll either have the same kind of boxes that are refurbished or new ones that would be SA 8300HD. I'm pretty sure TWC is exclusively buying SA boxes for new ones(for consistency across the entire system).


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15541521
> 
> 
> SARA or Navigator?



SARA. I'm in Solon on the same system you're on. No Navigator here yet!

My daughter has Navigator on an 8300SD in northern NY (off the Syracuse system) and it seems to rock. They must have SDV, because they have the full monte of HD lineup. In using it over Christmas, it seems to behave identically to SARA, just a few more features.


----------



## lbvp

Hollywood Reporter, Jan 13, 2009, 12:20 PM ET

TCA -- This will be the final season of "Prison Break."


Fox will shift the show to Fridays this spring for its final run of episodes, taking over for "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" once the sci-fi drama finishes its run.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15544711
> 
> 
> SARA. I'm in Solon on the same system you're on. No Navigator here yet!
> 
> My daughter has Navigator on an 8300SD in northern NY (off the Syracuse system) *and it seems to rock.* They must have SDV, because they have the full monte of HD lineup. In using it over Christmas, it seems to behave identically to SARA, just a few more features.



It f**king sucks monkey balls!!! At least the OCAP version does.


I recently got one of those HDC boxes for the bedroom. And I'm thankful that it is only in the bedroom. If I had to use that all the time on the main TV, I'd have a f**king fit!! It's slow as hell, the supposedly older 8300HD (no C) runs circles around that new box(that's supposed to have more RAM). The graphics are fugly, the channel banner is larger than a news lower third, but the font is normal size.


Trust me, you're lucky you have SARA. Once they deploy Navigator in other areas this year, you'll be remembering the days of SARA as "the good old days". I've never even seen it in person, and I'd rather have it instead of Navigator. Nothing(other than the Directv interface) could possibly suck more!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15543361
> 
> 
> Hookbill: if the motorola boxes are part of the problem, can I exchange mine at TW for a different HD/DVR box that might be better or do I have to wait.



Yes, you can. Just tell them it's not working right. They will give you a new box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15544711
> 
> 
> SARA. I'm in Solon on the same system you're on. No Navigator here yet!
> 
> My daughter has Navigator on an 8300SD in northern NY (off the Syracuse system) and it seems to rock. They must have SDV, because they have the full monte of HD lineup. In using it over Christmas, it seems to behave identically to SARA, just a few more features.



I think there is a problem with changing SARA to Navigator. I don't have anything to support this other then the fact that I have heard of only two people say they have seen SARA change to Navigator anywhere. Only one of them I would consider credible, and he contributes to this thread however I am doubtful that he's right.


Despite what you may think or what nickdawg say's it's my experience and from what I've read in other threads that SARA is not a good software. I've read comments by people who write software on how poor it is. Navigator is worst.


If you want a good DVR that will work with both SDV and TW, there is only one that I can recommend.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15547783
> 
> 
> 
> If you want a good DVR that will work with both SDV and TW, there is only one that I can recommend.



Don't say it!!
























And "that one" will not entirely work with TWC. VOD, PPV, Interactive TV, Start Over and any other new feature unleashed by TWC in their firmware won't work with tivo.


Also, SARA can be converted to Navigator. In that article, Mr. Jasso said Start Over will be added in NE Ohio once SDV is done. Start Over is part of the Navigator software, it was listed as one of the "Coming Soon" features in the Navigator literature.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15547819
> 
> 
> Don't say it!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And "that one" will not entirely work with TWC. VOD, PPV, Interactive TV, Start Over and any other new feature unleashed by TWC in their firmware won't work with tivo.
> 
> 
> Also, SARA can be converted to Navigator. In that article, Mr. Jasso said Start Over will be added in NE Ohio once SDV is done. Start Over is part of the Navigator software, it was listed as one of the "Coming Soon" features in the Navigator literature.



Per usual, you are wrong again.


You can order pay per view by phone. You are correct that there is no "on demand" however there is Netflix, Amazon Video On Demand, U Tube, Kids Zone, Rhapsody, Cinema Now (Disney), Nero Liquid TV, Jomon, and Photobucket Pecasa. You can also transfer recordings to your PC if you have a wireless network, or to another TiVo. And there is a whole lot more, like wishlist where you can either set up for an actor, a title, a producer, a director. I could go on but I'll stop there.


----------



## Vchat20

Honestly, Navigator isn't all THAT bad. It might not be as feature complete as the 'Holy Grail' that is Passport, but it's getting there and the interface is clean and useable. And last I remember reading they were beta testing a newer revision out somewhere in Arizona that has the color scheme changed to be much easier on the eyes.


The BIGGEST problem that not only TW but Scientific Atlanta has dug themselves into as well is trying to shoehorn the OCAP edition of Navigator and the OCAP base, which is essentially just an embedded Java virtual machine, onto these HDC boxes that have much less cpu power and ram than their native code counterparts and it really shows. I've witnessed the Native non-OCAP version of Navigator/Mystro on everything from the old SA8000 to the 8000HD and the 8300. All are extremely responsive and just fly. Add in the added eye-candy perk of fade-in/out on each menu and even a subtle volume crossfade on channel changes.


The Tivo is an awesome DVR, don't get me wrong. The thing though is it has an up front couple hundred dollar pricetag on top of the subscription fee. And you don't get the advantage of being able to swap it out without having to pay an arm and a leg in case it croaks.


Mind you if the Tivo became a bit more affordable and a lifetime subscription came down, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat. Since TW has cut down on their PPV offerings, not much premium non-VOD content can be recorded and for the VOD stuff I can get away with a basic set-top with no DVR functionality. But as of right now, TW's own offerings have more bang for the buck when you consider the 'insurance policy' involved.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15548055
> 
> 
> 
> The BIGGEST problem that not only TW but Scientific Atlanta has dug themselves into as well is trying to shoehorn the OCAP edition of Navigator and the OCAP base, which is essentially just an embedded Java virtual machine, onto these HDC boxes that have much less cpu power and ram than their native code counterparts and it really shows. I've witnessed the Native non-OCAP version of Navigator/Mystro on everything from the old SA8000 to the 8000HD and the 8300. All are extremely responsive and just fly. Add in the added eye-candy perk of fade-in/out on each menu and even a subtle volume crossfade on channel changes.



That's the thing I never can understand, why is the Navigator on non OCAP boxes decent but the version on the OCAP boxes is crap? Is it honestly that hard to change the appearance? I highly doubt the fading menus and non-obnoxiously large channel banner are in any way related to OCAP. If they would:

*reduce the size of the channel banner

*increase UI speed/respone

*maybe add fade effects


Then at least it would be tolerable. But what they currently offer on the OCAP boxes is beyond pathetic. It looks like a not ready for primetime(what am I saying, NOT READY FOR A BETA TEST) product.


And unfortunately the "good"(I threw up a little in my mouth saying that







) Navigator is vanishing, as OCAP boxes are becoming the minority.


Did I mention, I HATE OCAP!!!! F*** OCAP!!


The people who developed/invented OCAP need to be sent to something worse than Gitmo.






































I feel better now!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15548055
> 
> 
> And last I remember reading they were beta testing a newer revision out somewhere in Arizona that has the color scheme changed to be much easier on the eyes.



They're beta-testing a color change? That says a lot about the software's stability...










I think back to really old versions of Windows that made you reboot after a desktop background change...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15549785
> 
> 
> They're beta-testing a color change? That says a lot about the software's stability...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think back to really old versions of Windows that made you reboot after a desktop background change...



Wow, that's what I really wanted!










I hope they'll have a color scheme that is plain default yellow and pink like the original bare bones version of Passport, none of this shiny, 3D gradient crap they have now. I despise these shiny, flashy UIs that Navigator has---such a hog, like Vista. And I guess that makes tivo a Mac, with the flashy, slick UI!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15549785
> 
> 
> They're beta-testing a color change? That says a lot about the software's stability...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think back to really old versions of Windows that made you reboot after a desktop background change...



Actually, it has a lot of other feature additions/changes and stability improvements/bugfixes. The color scheme change though I pointed out since a lot of people here seem to be really turned off by the current one. I'm not 100% sure if it's JUST the color that's changed or if significant changes to the UI are done like downsizing the info bar and whatnot.


edit: This is the link I got btw with some screenshots of the new interface: http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages...tml?1227215351


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15550051
> 
> 
> Actually, it has a lot of other feature additions/changes and stability improvements/bugfixes.



Hehe - I figured there was more to it than just a color change. Had to poke some fun at what you said, though..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15548055
> 
> 
> Honestly, Navigator isn't all THAT bad. It might not be as feature complete as the 'Holy Grail' that is Passport, but it's getting there and the interface is clean and useable. And last I remember reading they were beta testing a newer revision out somewhere in Arizona that has the color scheme changed to be much easier on the eyes.
> 
> 
> The BIGGEST problem that not only TW but Scientific Atlanta has dug themselves into as well is trying to shoehorn the OCAP edition of Navigator and the OCAP base, which is essentially just an embedded Java virtual machine, onto these HDC boxes that have much less cpu power and ram than their native code counterparts and it really shows. I've witnessed the Native non-OCAP version of Navigator/Mystro on everything from the old SA8000 to the 8000HD and the 8300. All are extremely responsive and just fly. Add in the added eye-candy perk of fade-in/out on each menu and even a subtle volume crossfade on channel changes.
> 
> 
> The Tivo is an awesome DVR, don't get me wrong. The thing though is it has an up front couple hundred dollar pricetag on top of the subscription fee. And you don't get the advantage of being able to swap it out without having to pay an arm and a leg in case it croaks.
> 
> 
> Mind you if the Tivo became a bit more affordable and a lifetime subscription came down, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat. Since TW has cut down on their PPV offerings, not much premium non-VOD content can be recorded and for the VOD stuff I can get away with a basic set-top with no DVR functionality. But as of right now, TW's own offerings have more bang for the buck when you consider the 'insurance policy' involved.



Well said.


You are absolutely right. TiVo's cost can be tremendous but it has been my experience that if you take care of it by using proper ventilation and such you should not have to replace it for years.


To be on the safe side, I got a 3 year warranty on both of my TiVo's from Circuit City. I have not had to use it.


Yes, it cost much more. You have to be willing to put out money for a better product. It's like a car, certainly you wouldn't compare a Chevy with a BMW. Yet there may be somethings about that Chevy that the BMW does not do (like on demand)







.


Actually I'd say if you have no problems with your DVR then unless you want to be extravagant there is no reason to get a TiVo. All those features I mention, the only one I use is Wishlist and Amazon. While I'm on the subject of Amazon, it's a great way to legally purchase a network television show without using BT.


As I have documented many times in the past, I could have lived with SARA and the SA 8300 if it was reliable, but it's my experience that it is not and I went through 3 of them at different times in a 2 year period. Besides partial recordings and just not recording at all, there was the picture issue. I thought all HD programs had that warped look, I thought it was a broadcast issue!










And then there is the simple fact that if a program changes dates for a "special" or even moves permanently, SARA does not recognize a 3 way conflict. As a result it will not record anything. I say SARA because I'm not sure if any of the other two software had these problems.


Pleasr don't confuse that with initial programming. SARA can see a 3 way conflict upon adding another show - It's just that it fails if a show you have set to "record all" gets moved and you already have 2 shows on that time slot. I understand Passport allowed priority.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15551128
> 
> 
> Pleasr don't confuse that with initial programming. SARA can see a 3 way conflict upon adding another show - It's just that it fails if a show you have set to "record all" gets moved and you already have 2 shows on that time slot. I understand Passport allowed priority.



I actually watched this happen on my SA8000HD box, and my mouth gaped when I realize that NONE of the three shows would record!


Same situation you describe...one of the three shows had a special airing in the time slot regularly occupied by the two other shows. A message popped up on screen informing me of the conflict, and no shows recorded at all. This is insanity.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15551988
> 
> 
> I actually watched this happen on my SA8000HD box, and my mouth gaped when I realize that NONE of the three shows would record!
> 
> 
> Same situation you describe...one of the three shows had a special airing in the time slot regularly occupied by the two other shows. A message popped up on screen informing me of the conflict, and no shows recorded at all. This is insanity.



You got a message? I never got one. Must be the newer firmware.


It happened to me on several occasions!


Still I would have put up with that if it just recorded like it was suppose to. I had to baby sit that thing all the time.


With TiVo it's set it and forget it. Maybe Passport and Navigator are different.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15555914
> 
> 
> You got a message? I never got one. Must be the newer firmware.



I didn't say the message was all that helpful.







I think it was actually just the standard conflict message, and I didn't find out that it decided to record not three, not two, or not even ONE program until later.


Yipes.


It's one reason I still do most of my recording on the SD TiVo. If there's something I really think will look great in HD, and can't be by the set live, I'll use it, but nothing "mission critical" is on the SA8000HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15557322
> 
> 
> I didn't say the message was all that helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it was actually just the standard conflict message, and I didn't find out that it decided to record not three, not two, or not even ONE program until later.
> 
> 
> Yipes.
> 
> 
> It's one reason I still do most of my recording on the SD TiVo. If there's something I really think will look great in HD, and can't be by the set live, I'll use it, but nothing "mission critical" is on the SA8000HD.



Maybe I saw that. I don't remember.


Good stuff that SARA is huh?


----------



## ErieMarty

what area is Mid Ohio ??


TWC-MidOhio HD Lineup (as of 01/14/09):


700 HBO HDTV (Premium)

701 Showtime HD (Premium)

702 Cinemax HD (Premium)

703 Starz HD (Premium)

704 WCMH HD (NBC)

706 WSYX HD (ABC)

707 WOSU HD (PBS)

708 WTTE HD (Fox)

710 WBNS HD (CBS)

713 WWHO HD (CW)

714 CNN HD

715 Fox News Channel HD

717 CNBC HD

722 ESPN News HD

723 ESPNU HD

725 MLB Network HD

740 Travel Channel HD

743 BIO HD

744 Bravo HD

747 FX HD

748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD

749 LifetimeMovieNet HD

750 HD Theater

751 TNT in HD

752 Sports Time Ohio HD

753 FSN Ohio HD

754 Versus HD

755 FSN Ohio HD Alternate

756 SPEED HD

757 Big Ten Network HD

758 The Golf Channel HD

759 TBS in HD

760 USA HD

761 National Geographic HD

762 Discovery Channel HD

763 Science Channel HD

764 Animal Planet HD

765 TLC HD

766 A&E HD

767 History HD

768 HGTV HD

769 Food Network HD

770 Disney HD

771 Disney XD HD

772 ABC Family HD

773 Sci Fi HD

774 Palladia HD

775 MGM HD (Gold pkg)

777 HDNet (Gold pkg)

778 HDNET Movies (Gold pkg)

780 Universal HD (Gold pkg)

785 ESPN-HD

786 ESPN2-HD

795 HD Showcase On Demand

796 Big Ten Network HD On Demand

799 HD Movies On Demand

322 iN Demand Event 1 HD

401 Adult On Demand HD


----------



## hookbill

*Sirius-XM Radio* are reporting that the Inaugural Celebration, "We Are One" live from Lincoln Center will be shown on HBO this Sunday at 2:30 pm without a subscription!!!!!!!


It so happens I'm signing up myself that day for Big Love so I would have seen it anyway, but I thought I would pass the word.


You know TW would never tell us.









http://www.hbo.com/events/weareone/


----------



## hookbill




ErieMarty said:


> what area is Mid Ohio ??[/quit]
> 
> 
> It's in the middle of Ohio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you asked!!!!


----------



## Tim Lones

ErieMarty:

"Mid-Ohio" Usually refers to the Mansfield-Ashland area..About 60 miles north of Columbus and due southwest of Cleveland..


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15560429
> 
> 
> 401 Adult On Demand HD



???? So is that the Babysitter Channel?


----------



## hookbill

I already get adult on demand. It's called my wife!


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15560702
> 
> 
> I already get adult on demand. It's called my wife!



Hookbill...is that available to all of us ??? lol


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15560775
> 
> 
> Hookbill...is that available to all of us ??? lol



Right now Marty, you can have her. She's laid up with some elective surgery. Very painful, but you can already see the results and she's been out of the hospital for only one day.


I will also give you my cell phone which she rings about every hour for something she needs. You can assist with the draining tubes. You can feed her. You can listen to her cry and moan. You can deal with trying to keep the cats out of the bedroom. You can get up several times during the middle of the night because she pages you (I'm in the guest room).


In essence, she's getting an upgrade but right now the system is down. When the system returns it will be brighter with a sharper firmer picture.

When she recovers, send her back.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15560429
> 
> 
> what area is Mid Ohio ??
> 
> 
> TWC-MidOhio HD Lineup (as of 01/14/09):
> 
> 
> 700 HBO HDTV (Premium)
> 
> 701 Showtime HD (Premium)
> 
> 702 Cinemax HD (Premium)
> 
> 703 Starz HD (Premium)
> 
> 704 WCMH HD (NBC)
> 
> 706 WSYX HD (ABC)
> 
> 707 WOSU HD (PBS)
> 
> 708 WTTE HD (Fox)
> 
> 710 WBNS HD (CBS)
> 
> 713 WWHO HD (CW)
> 
> 714 CNN HD
> 
> 715 Fox News Channel HD
> 
> 717 CNBC HD
> 
> 722 ESPN News HD
> 
> 723 ESPNU HD
> 
> 725 MLB Network HD
> 
> 740 Travel Channel HD
> 
> 743 BIO HD
> 
> 744 Bravo HD
> 
> 747 FX HD
> 
> 748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
> 
> 749 LifetimeMovieNet HD
> 
> 750 HD Theater
> 
> 751 TNT in HD
> 
> 752 Sports Time Ohio HD
> 
> 753 FSN Ohio HD
> 
> 754 Versus HD
> 
> 755 FSN Ohio HD Alternate
> 
> 756 SPEED HD
> 
> 757 Big Ten Network HD
> 
> 758 The Golf Channel HD
> 
> 759 TBS in HD
> 
> 760 USA HD
> 
> 761 National Geographic HD
> 
> 762 Discovery Channel HD
> 
> 763 Science Channel HD
> 
> 764 Animal Planet HD
> 
> 765 TLC HD
> 
> 766 A&E HD
> 
> 767 History HD
> 
> 768 HGTV HD
> 
> 769 Food Network HD
> 
> 770 Disney HD
> 
> 771 Disney XD HD
> 
> 772 ABC Family HD
> 
> 773 Sci Fi HD
> 
> 774 Palladia HD
> 
> 775 MGM HD (Gold pkg)
> 
> 777 HDNet (Gold pkg)
> 
> 778 HDNET Movies (Gold pkg)
> 
> 780 Universal HD (Gold pkg)
> 
> 785 ESPN-HD
> 
> 786 ESPN2-HD
> 
> 795 HD Showcase On Demand
> 
> 796 Big Ten Network HD On Demand
> 
> 799 HD Movies On Demand
> 
> 322 iN Demand Event 1 HD
> 
> 401 Adult On Demand HD



That's at least starting to get closer to what DirecTV has. Hopefully TWC NEO will have that in a couple months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/15561195
> 
> 
> That's at least starting to get closer to what DirecTV has. Hopefully TWC NEO will have that in a couple months.



I don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm still sticking with the prediction I had all along. Fall, 2009.


It is my experience that whenever Time Warner announces any type of implementation it's usually 6 months beyond what they say. Since Jasso (Kind of rhymes with something else














) said possibly March I put another 6 months on it.


And I don't "Mister" anybody from TW. That includes Fry.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15561017
> 
> 
> Right now Marty, you can have her. She's laid up with some elective surgery. Very painful, but you can already see the results and she's been out of the hospital for only one day.
> 
> 
> I will also give you my cell phone which she rings about every hour for something she needs. You can assist with the draining tubes. You can feed her. You can listen to her cry and moan. You can deal with trying to keep the cats out of the bedroom. You can get up several times during the middle of the night because she pages you (I'm in the guest room).



If you had Dish Network, their DVR would take care of all of that. Their DVR is that awesome!







Word on the street is Obama is using his Dish Network DVR to come up with the Stimulus Bill.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15562444
> 
> 
> If you had Dish Network, their DVR would take care of all of that. Their DVR is that awesome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Word on the street is Obama is using his Dish Network DVR to come up with the Stimulus Bill.



I got news for you pal. They got sued by TiVo for stealing their designs. And TiVo won. Eventually that DVR will not be so awesome.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15560429
> 
> 
> 401 Adult On Demand HD



I wonder how much HD bandwidth is being wasted on that garbage? But then again of course TWC would want to show televised f**king (and in HD!), since they f**k us every month with the cable bill!


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15562852
> 
> 
> I got news for you pal. They got sued by TiVo for stealing their designs. And TiVo won. Eventually that DVR will not be so awesome.



You are just jealous that your DVR can't drill oil wells or make killer Belgian Waffles like Dish Network's can.










That said, apparently, there is a February date for a hearing about a new trial over the TIVO patent infringement. Dish Network says their new design isn't infringing.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15560442
> 
> *Sirius-XM Radio* are reporting that the Inaugural Celebration, "We Are One" live from Lincoln Center will be shown on HBO this Sunday at 2:30 pm without a subscription!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> It so happens I'm signing up myself that day for Big Love so I would have seen it anyway, but I thought I would pass the word.
> 
> 
> You know TW would never tell us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.hbo.com/events/weareone/




Per Ohio Media Watch...


Time Warner Cable, the dominant provider here in Northeast Ohio, will go one step further.


TWC says it'll simulcast the HBO event down into analog cable land...where the network hasn't been available for some time in any form, even if you pay for it.


The HBO special will air on the company's Northeast Ohio systems on cable channel 23, the home of the TWC "Northeast Ohio Network" (NEON) local programming channel.


A Time Warner press release says the HBO event will air on the Northwest Ohio and Mid-Ohio systems on cable channel 24, and on cable channel 99 in Southwest Ohio...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15560518
> 
> 
> ErieMarty:
> 
> "Mid-Ohio" Usually refers to the Mansfield-Ashland area..About 60 miles north of Columbus and due southwest of Cleveland..



For TWC, "Mid-Ohio" is their name for their Columbus based system. I THINK Mansfield/Ashland are actually under TWC NEO, but I'm not sure.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15561263
> 
> 
> It is my experience that whenever Time Warner announces any type of implementation it's usually 6 months beyond what they say. Since Jasso (Kind of rhymes with something else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) said possibly March I put another 6 months on it.
> 
> 
> And I don't "Mister" anybody from TW. That includes Fry.



Can we possibly be adult here, and stop dropping bombs and insults against actual people?


I give Bill Jasso credit for coming out and talking about things. You may or may not like TWC or even what he had to say, but that "rhymes with something else" line was uncalled for. Show some class, hook...and you, too, nickdawg.


I used to listen to Bill Jasso when he was a radio news reporter in Akron. From what I've heard, he's a good guy...and doesn't deserve your shots here even if you disagree with his company's offerings or timetable. Don't make it personal.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15563774
> 
> 
> Can we possibly be adult here, and stop dropping bombs and insults against actual people?
> 
> 
> I give Bill Jasso credit for coming out and talking about things. You may or may not like TWC or even what he had to say, but that "rhymes with something else" line was uncalled for. Show some class, hook...and you, too, nickdawg.
> 
> 
> I used to listen to Bill Jasso when he was a radio news reporter in Akron. From what I've heard, he's a good guy...and doesn't deserve your shots here even if you disagree with his company's offerings or timetable. Don't make it personal.



I did give Bill credit when I responded on the media board, and I may have made the mistake of calling him Mister on that board.


The comment about his last name was childish and unnecessary, I'll admit to that. But I still stand by my comment of 6 months.


And quit picking on nickdawg, what the heck did he say this time? Anyway it's my job to pick on him.










What happened? Did you count on the SA 8000 to record something and it failed again? Please don't take it out on me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15564113
> 
> 
> The comment about his last name was childish and unnecessary, I'll admit to that. But I still stand by my comment of 6 months.
> 
> 
> And quit picking on nickdawg, what the heck did he say this time? Anyway it's my job to pick on him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened? Did you count on the SA 8000 to record something and it failed again? Please don't take it out on me.



I'm not saying your prediction isn't right...I agree that it'll probably be delayed past the March time frame given by Bill Jasso.


I'm just picking on nickdawg on general principle







I mentioned him because he's back to his profane, ranting comments again.


Hey, I'm frustrated, too. I'm a TWC subscriber like you are, and I pay the same insane amount of money to have a full HD lineup (plus Roadrunner Turbo, plus other digital outlets). I feel like my money is being wasted right now as far as the HD end of it, and have seriously considered dumping the SA8000HD and just pulling local HD either OTA or via QAM, as my set supports it.


But IMHO, aiming your comments directly at TWC's local spokesman is uncalled for. He likely has nothing to do with his company's timeline, and sure as heck isn't doing the technical work







Personal attacks are beyond the pale, and I'm not sure I wanna stick around at a place (here) where they're accepted parts of the commentary.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15564621
> 
> 
> I feel like my money is being wasted right now as far as the HD end of it, and have seriously considered dumping the SA8000HD and just pulling local HD either OTA or via QAM, as my set supports it.



Well, after Feb. if WKYC moves back to a viewable part of the spectrum, why wouldn't you pull the local HD's OTA?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15564621
> 
> 
> But IMHO, aiming your comments directly at TWC's local spokesman is uncalled for. He likely has nothing to do with his company's timeline, and sure as heck isn't doing the technical work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal attacks are beyond the pale, *and I'm not sure I wanna stick around at a place (here) where they're accepted parts of the commentary.*


*
*

Seriously I don't want you to feel that way, but I did say quoted my comments wern't appropriate concerning his name. What the heck did I also say that was wrong?


And nickdawg, knock off the vaguely disguised profanity. It doesn't bother me personally but Inundated has been around this thread longer then anyone and if it upsets him it probably upsets others. Rant away, find, but do it without the $%$% stuff.


----------



## nickdawg

Don't get your panties in a bunch!!







Being here since 2004, you should know how hookbill, I, and others talk here. We have a really funny, sometimes crude, joking banter. That's how we are. But not always. Go look at the item about TWC HD on Ohio Media Watch. Look for the two comments by "NDizzle". I wrote those two comments. No personal attacks. We know when to be professional and when to be funny. This is a time to be funny and loose. Our cable company sucks monkey balls, we all know that. Might as well poke fun at the *******s running it into the ground!


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15563774
> 
> 
> I give Bill Jasso credit for coming out and talking about things. You may or may not like TWC or even what he had to say, but that "rhymes with something else" line was uncalled for. Show some class, hook...and you, too, nickdawg.
> 
> 
> I used to listen to Bill Jasso when he was a radio news reporter in Akron. From what I've heard, he's a good guy...and doesn't deserve your shots here even if you disagree with his company's offerings or timetable. Don't make it personal.



I don't usually comment, but Inundated is correct. Bill Jasso has lived and worked in this community for years. I am sure he works with the information he is given and is subject to the laws of suppply and demand.. I bet that TWC is finding that equipment is promised and delayed, installations at headends are more difficult than originally anticipated. As a broadcaster, I find these issues everyday. Vendors say the equipment will be delivered in time for this or that deadline and, ooops, delayed. But when it arrives, it will be bug free---NOT. The commercial gear--broadcast or cable-- is essentially all not-ready-for-beta testing when it arrives at our facilities. Or you may have $420K worth of equipment installed in a rack and can't use it because the manufacturer of a $450 AES embedder won't ship for two more weeks.This DTV is all being invented and improved as we go, daily. Give TWC and the local broadcasters a bit of a break... they are dealing with more issues than you can imagine... and that doesn't include the Feds and attorneys getting involved.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15560518
> 
> 
> ErieMarty:
> 
> "Mid-Ohio" Usually refers to the Mansfield-Ashland area..About 60 miles north of Columbus and due southwest of Cleveland..



While "Mid Ohio" is the name of the company that owns WMFD-DT, judging from the local stations in that list Mid-Ohio is in the Columbus DMA (Mansfield & Ashland are in the Cleveland DMA which is why all satellite subscribers are now getting WMFD in every county in the Cleveland DMA, but not in any Columbus DMA counties (although with cable YMMV).


----------



## nickdawg

I don't mind the local broadcasters, but TWC gets no breaks from me. They were stupid, they screed up, now they're getting burned. And they deserve it. It's not like these new channels finally added to other TWC systems just jumped out of the bushes. D* has been carrying many of them since 2007. There's no excuse to not have SDV deployed across the entire market by now. If D* can shoot satellites into space, TWC can do SDV.


Or even easier, cut some of the damn analog channels. There is *NO EXCUSE* for having 60+ channels on the analog only tier. There were not even that many channels when cable was all analog. And many of the current analog channels existed on digital cable only when it first came out. The only thing that should be on analog is the local channels and a few basic cable channel, maybe a total of 30(including locals).


This is why I have a burning hatred of TWC---they continue to underestimate the importance of HDTV. Sure, 2 or 3 years ago it made sense to push forward with that VOD nonsense, have a larger analog tier and not do SDV, since there were maybe 15 national HD channels available. And sure it made sense to pull the "BS card" at D*'s claim of 100 HD channels, since any claim from a TV provider usually has some strings attached or is pure bull. But there is no excuse to not adapt to current conditions and what your customer base wants. HDTVs have grown almost exponentially over the last few years. Nationally, it is almost at 25%. And once it breaks 25%, I'll bet 50% is not far off. And all these HDTVs are begging for HD content. And plenty of providers serve it up, unfortunately they tend to be providers with other problems that make them worse than TWC







.


This is where TWC is wrong. People paying for two or more boxes, premium services, digital cable, HDTV tier, HD PPV etc are being pissed on in an attempt to appease the unwashed masses, the lowest common denominator. Us paying customers(often times close to $100 or above) don't get USA, F/X, Scifi, Spike in HD since it is more important to TWC to make sure these, essentially freeloaders who pay for the bare bones cheap package get six music channels as well as these channels in analog. With these shoddy business practices, I'm surprised that TWC isn't suffering any more than they currently are.


----------



## hookbill

I've never met a cable company I've liked. I did meet two satellite companies I liked, Primestar and Direct TV, but technically speaking I got my D* from Pegasus (referred to as Pegasucks frequently).


In reflection however I can't think of too many times I called customer service and the times I did call to complain about something it turned out they were right, although at the time I didn't think so.


Cable companies, not a one. Going all the way back to the 80's, I've always had problems with them.


----------



## lbvp

I believe that some of the networks have continued carriage on the analog channels written into their contracts, so dont look for them to go away anytime soon


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15564991
> 
> 
> Well, after Feb. if WKYC moves back to a viewable part of the spectrum, why wouldn't you pull the local HD's OTA?



That's one factor in my decision making.


I do watch some cable channels, but I think I can do without the HD versions. And if I want to record something (save for those), I have a USB HDTV stick I can use on the computer. Or I can record the SD versions on my TiVo in the bedroom.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15567267
> 
> 
> I believe that some of the networks have continued carriage on the analog channels written into their contracts, so dont look for them to go away anytime soon



Exactly. This is one of the things I'm talking about here - people going on assumptions, ranting about things they don't know.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15565296
> 
> 
> Seriously I don't want you to feel that way, but I did say quoted my comments wern't appropriate concerning his name. What the heck did I also say that was wrong?



I was just reiterating my concern over your previous comment, just so you know that it's important to me. And since I choose to spend time here and take part in this forum, it makes ME look bad if someone like Bill Jasso comes in here and sees people personally attacking him.


It's just another part of the whole "Internet people with no lives in their basement taking pot shots at people just because they're ticked" thing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15565296
> 
> 
> And nickdawg, knock off the vaguely disguised profanity. It doesn't bother me personally but Inundated has been around this thread longer then anyone and if it upsets him it probably upsets others. Rant away, find, but do it without the $%$% stuff.



I'm no prude or anything, but I'm sick of reading the graphic descriptions and crude stuff. If he continues, I'll have to find this forum's ignore feature.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15565350
> 
> 
> We know when to be professional and when to be funny. This is a time to be funny and loose. Our cable company



...oh, nevermind. You're too crude for me. Fun, loose, sure...but the crude wording and imagery I can do without.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15565565
> 
> 
> I don't usually comment, but Inundated is correct. Bill Jasso has lived and worked in this community for years.



Indeed, he has. When he was doing radio news in Akron, it was the mid-1970's!


Thank you for making my point for me. Things Happen, and people sitting at home watching their cable TV feed have no idea. Or with the local stations...people on these forums used to complain when a station had to record an HD show in SD.


"I have a DVR in my living room and I can record it, I don't see any reason why they can't!" Umm, local stations can't use a consumer DVR to record, and all of the stations that can do it now spent a pretty penny to do so.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15565749
> 
> 
> There's no excuse to not have SDV deployed across the entire market by now. If D* can shoot satellites into space, TWC can do SDV.



How in the world are these two related?


And is there a possibility that there IS an "excuse" to do it, they're just not doing it fast enough for you? Are you at the headends? Do you know the process? Can you even name the equipment they use to implement SDV?


Then - you don't know.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15565749
> 
> 
> Or even easier, cut some of the damn analog channels. There is *NO EXCUSE* for having 60+ channels on the analog only tier.



I generally agree with you about the need to start clearing out analog channels for more bandwidth for HD/digital/other services. I suspect this will start happening on its own within a year of the OTA digital transition.


Look, I don't think you're wrong about a lot of what you said. I'm one of those "premium" subscribers, with HDTV, digital boxes, Roadrunner Turbo and the works.


I just paid my bill today - it's now up to $165 a month (!!!). I want more value for that money, and as noted, am thinking of dumping all the extras. Just one digital box on the TiVo, an analog downstairs that's feeding the Slingbox, and dumping the DVR/HD service on the HD set, using OTA and/or QAM to deliver the locals.


And I'm thisclose to doing it.


I just don't word my frustration like you do, and your writing style isn't easy to take. IMHO, of course.


----------



## Vchat20

Completely agreed all around Inundated. People seem to quickly forget that TWCNEO isn't run by just 2 or 3 people but rather quite a large number of people in numerous departments to keep it all running as a legitimate business and more often than not some sacrifices need to be made to keep it all running smoothly. Not to mention the numerous outside forces that determine how they run things. Like content providers, stockholders, etc.. Did we so quickly forget this mess with Viacom? If TW wanted to, they could have said screw you and cut all Viacom's channels in light of not increasing your rates. But rather than piss off both Viacom AND their own customers, they came to a mutual agreement and kept things running smoothly.


I guess what I'm trying to say is something that I have said before: They cannot please everyone all of the time. They can't add more HD channels without either SDV or cutting out analog channels. If they cut out analog channels, they piss off analog subscribers. They can't do something like FTTH for obvious reasons involving the needed capital for upgrades and their investors/stockholders. So the only option is SDV which IS going to take place, but needs EVERY area in the NEO region to be up to snuff and equal so they can make a clean move to a full hog SDV offering. And even with this, there are going to be a small handful of people that will be upset namely those with cablecard devices that are not compatible with the tuning resolvers. But this group is substantially less than HD proponents and basic analog subscribers who'd be extremely upset if they either continued with a lackluster HD lineup or cut out half the analog lineup for more HD programming.


As Jasso stated in the OMW blog entry, TWCNEO is fully aware of their customer base and is currently well on track to make SDV and these upgrades that'll please the large majority of their customer base. But until they can deploy it, they need to get their plants cleaned up primarily in the previous Comcast and Adelphia regions which WILL take time if you even have a remote amount of knowledge of all the equipment involved all the way from the Satellite content feeds right down to your set.


And I, too, am really apalled at those who have taken direct attacks on the guy. It really takes an idiot to do such a thing. The guy is not involved with doing hands on work on the cable plants, he's not involved in being the ultimate final decider on what upgrades need to be done and when. As far as I know, he's just another PR guy and at least he is being extremely open about what TWCNEO is working on compared to CSR's or other PR types. You should ultimately be complaining, if at all, to TWCNEO as a whole business entity. Not taking a personal stab at any of their employees like many these days love to do. It's one reason why I really loathe those who feel like they should ***** to CSR's about more technical issues in a personal manner when half the time these CSR's are required to follow their scripts or risk getting FIRED. I mean, I've talked to my share of CSR's who have admitted that the scripts are crap and between of myself and them, the call could be cut down to a fraction of the length without the script, but it had to be followed.


Believe me when I say that I am just annoyed as everyone else here about the lackluster quality of TW's services so far. Their phone service is about the only redeeming service that I can praise. But as Jasso has pointed out, TWCNEO /IS/ working on getting the region upgraded and increasing HD offerings for a start. It's just taking a while because we don't have the advantages of other regions like having a uniform cable plant, lack of anal franchise agreements, etc..


I'm willing to give TWCNEO a chance and willing to wait till spring or mid-summer at the very latest. By that time I should have my own income and will jump to DirecTV in a heartbeat should they fail to deliver. But I have faith. They aren't THAT heartless. I mean, you can email Mr. Fry and get **** done in record time. That should certainly say something. The only reason why going through CSR's and local techs usually doesn't do squat is because they certainly can't differentiate between genuine techies, know-it-alls, and just plain tech-illiterate types. And when you have a LARGE customer base, that point is exacerbated tenfold.


----------



## hookbill

For the few that have TiVo here, and for those who don't and wonder why I make such a fuss about it you can see their display at the CES.


They have added a new HD search feature and have changed the way TiVo comes back with it's search. You can even search for HD on YouTube.


nickdawg I know you and I have had some go arounds on this but I don't know if you truly understand the TiVo experience. One of the many things you rant about is lack of technology. Take a look here .


I'm not saying to everyone go buy a TiVo. I've already said if you're happy then fine, no need to spend extra money and there is no doubt TiVo will cause you to spend some extra money. Just have a look.


And fwiw, in the TiVo Forum people say that the cost of cable cards and TiVo itself will actually reduce the cost of your cable bill and therefore pay for itself. I don't know if that is true.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15568839
> 
> 
> Completely agreed all around Inundated. People seem to quickly forget that TWCNEO isn't run by just 2 or 3 people but rather quite a large number of people in numerous departments to keep it all running as a legitimate business and more often than not some sacrifices need to be made to keep it all running smoothly. Not to mention the numerous outside forces that determine how they run things. Like content providers, stockholders, etc.. Did we so quickly forget this mess with Viacom? If TW wanted to, they could have said screw you and cut all Viacom's channels in light of not increasing your rates. But rather than piss off both Viacom AND their own customers, they came to a mutual agreement and kept things running smoothly.
> 
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is something that I have said before: They cannot please everyone all of the time. They can't add more HD channels without either SDV or cutting out analog channels. If they cut out analog channels, they piss off analog subscribers. They can't do something like FTTH for obvious reasons involving the needed capital for upgrades and their investors/stockholders. So the only option is SDV which IS going to take place, but needs EVERY area in the NEO region to be up to snuff and equal so they can make a clean move to a full hog SDV offering. And even with this, there are going to be a small handful of people that will be upset namely those with cablecard devices that are not compatible with the tuning resolvers. But this group is substantially less than HD proponents and basic analog subscribers who'd be extremely upset if they either continued with a lackluster HD lineup or cut out half the analog lineup for more HD programming.
> 
> 
> As Jasso stated in the OMW blog entry, TWCNEO is fully aware of their customer base and is currently well on track to make SDV and these upgrades that'll please the large majority of their customer base. But until they can deploy it, they need to get their plants cleaned up primarily in the previous Comcast and Adelphia regions which WILL take time if you even have a remote amount of knowledge of all the equipment involved all the way from the Satellite content feeds right down to your set.
> 
> 
> And I, too, am really apalled at those who have taken direct attacks on the guy. It really takes an idiot to do such a thing. The guy is not involved with doing hands on work on the cable plants, he's not involved in being the ultimate final decider on what upgrades need to be done and when. As far as I know, he's just another PR guy and at least he is being extremely open about what TWCNEO is working on compared to CSR's or other PR types. You should ultimately be complaining, if at all, to TWCNEO as a whole business entity. Not taking a personal stab at any of their employees like many these days love to do. It's one reason why I really loathe those who feel like they should ***** to CSR's about more technical issues in a personal manner when half the time these CSR's are required to follow their scripts or risk getting FIRED. I mean, I've talked to my share of CSR's who have admitted that the scripts are crap and between of myself and them, the call could be cut down to a fraction of the length without the script, but it had to be followed.
> 
> 
> Believe me when I say that I am just annoyed as everyone else here about the lackluster quality of TW's services so far. Their phone service is about the only redeeming service that I can praise. But as Jasso has pointed out, TWCNEO /IS/ working on getting the region upgraded and increasing HD offerings for a start. It's just taking a while because we don't have the advantages of other regions like having a uniform cable plant, lack of anal franchise agreements, etc..
> 
> 
> I'm willing to give TWCNEO a chance and willing to wait till spring or mid-summer at the very latest. By that time I should have my own income and will jump to DirecTV in a heartbeat should they fail to deliver. But I have faith. They aren't THAT heartless. I mean, you can email Mr. Fry and get **** done in record time. That should certainly say something. The only reason why going through CSR's and local techs usually doesn't do squat is because they certainly can't differentiate between genuine techies, know-it-alls, and just plain tech-illiterate types. And when you have a LARGE customer base, that point is exacerbated tenfold.



I hope you're not looping me in the group of people or person that is crying foul on the SDV thing. I personally don't care if it ever gets here. I just don't like cable companies.


My main gripe with TW is the fact that they restrict all digitial channels from copy more then once. That means I cannot send a copy of a digital recorded program to my computer or to another TiVo. I think this is unfair and while I do believe some channels need restriction, I don't think it should be any of the channels they offer in analog. TBS, TNT, ESPN, ESPN2 you can copy freely in analog. Why not HD?


And this is solely the cable company who makes this decision. Other companies don't restrict as much and Verizon doesn't restrict at all.


To end this on somewhat of a happy note I will say that Time Warner Cable is far, far better then Adelphia. Without a doubt the worst of the cable companies I have ever dealt with.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15565749
> 
> 
> This is why I have a burning hatred of TWC---they continue to underestimate the importance of HDTV.



Or maybe they realize that based on the monopoly they have, they don't need to make such a leap to HDTV, because in the end... people will pay for it. You've got the older folks who don't want change and will gladly overpay for analog channels. Or even that the vast majority of households don't even have an HDTV.


One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still. People with HDTV's seem to have this odd feeling that the world owes them HD programming because they spent a fortune on a TV that can show it. Heck, the 2009 transition isn't even to HD, but "digital".



> Quote:
> But there is no excuse to not adapt to current conditions and what your customer base wants.



You need to rephrase that comment as to what "you" want. Again, some HDTV owners seem to see HDTV programming as a birthright or something.



> Quote:
> HDTVs have grown almost exponentially over the last few years. Nationally, it is almost at 25%. And once it breaks 25%, I'll bet 50% is not far off.



You are clued in on this global recession right? If 1 in 4 tvs are HDTV's, that isn't quite a huge mandate from the consumers. And that percentage shouldn't be changing too much as credit gets squeezed and people need to pay cash for these things.



> Quote:
> This is where TWC is wrong. People paying for two or more boxes, premium services, digital cable, HDTV tier, HD PPV etc are being pissed on in an attempt to appease the unwashed masses, the lowest common denominator. Us paying customers(often times close to $100 or above) don't get USA, F/X, Scifi, Spike in HD since it is more important to TWC to make sure these, essentially freeloaders who pay for the bare bones cheap package get six music channels as well as these channels in analog. With these shoddy business practices, I'm surprised that TWC isn't suffering any more than they currently are.



"freeloaders"? Are you kidding me?! They can't afford $100+ a month for cable and you call them "freeloaders"? Speak about being out of touch.


----------



## Inundated

One point, and I'll move on from all this on my end of things.


ALL cable customers want the cable company to serve their own needs.


Some people want cheap analog service. Some are even aboard just to get the locals, because they don't want to mess with an antenna. (This is considered one of the few potential growth areas for cable systems, with the digital transition.)


Some have HD sets, and that population is indeed growing, and they don't give a crap about anything but a wide variety of cable channels in HD format. They're frustrated, because even in nearby systems run by the same company, those customers have a wider selection.


Some don't care about HD at all, and want video on demand.


Some customers want digital phone, even if you're like me and have Vonage, and don't care about TWC's offerings.


Despite the rise in adoption of HD sets, those of us who have them are NOT the majority in 2009. Heck, sales of HD sets were NOT red hot this past holiday shopping season, as NOTHING was flying off the shelves in the collapsing retail sector.


If you wanted an "excuse", TWC could well say that the crummy economy means they won't spend more money to upgrade systems. They haven't said that. It's still a competitive market (satellite, U-verse/FiOS, etc.) and the number of HD set owners - while still not a majority - is high enough that it's an investment in the future to upgrade...even in the worst global recession in our lifetime.


They'll get SDV going, and analog channels will start migrating to digital in larger numbers due to market forces and the changing world of TV in general.


It's just not quick enough for many - including me. Again, I'm frustrated as well, to the point I'm about to jump ship re: paying a lot of extra money to TWC for inadequate (in my view) HD service. Remember, my bill last month was over $160.


But I recognize the reality of the marketplace, the reality of how cable systems run, the reality of what's out there - even if it doesn't mesh with my own needs. If I don't think it does, I'll consider going elsewhere. I'm happy enough with the general service I get from TWC, and am more than happy with Roadrunner (Turbo), so I'm not considering dumping TWC overall...but I am considering scaling back the premium stuff.


Even so, ranting here about it does nothing. Those market realities still exist, whether you choose to ignore them or not. Ranting here isn't going to cause the TWC Great Service Fairy to come down and say "you know what, screw it, we're going to change our plan to make YOU (individual customer who wants HD) happy". The market will drag them there sooner than you think...stuff doesn't happen in that world in days.


Even the DirecTV people complained about that service's HD offerings until the company spent a kazillion dollars - as part of their own, previously set plan - to launch new satellites to provide a lot of HD channels.


Since someone tried to compare that to cable here, you could say that TWC's SDV implementation - along with stuff like moving analog channels up in to digital - is their version of the D* satellite launch. You just can't snap your fingers and get them to "get into gear" to speed up technical plans...no matter how much you gripe here.


And that's what I've been tired about.


Look, hookbill, I like ya. You're a good guy. A bit cranky, but I've never experienced your wrath at a TWC customer service office










And though your crude way of making points bothers me, nickdawg...as I said, you make a lot of points I do agree with.


There...a little diplomacy on my part.


----------



## ErieMarty

on the different frustrations of the end user.


My biggest one as a HD TV owner..is that some area get we more HD channels then we do and its not like we are talking some place on the west coast..but Just a few miles south in Ohio..(Mid Ohio)..there options are soo much greater then ours. If we had those channels you wouldn't be seeing many people complaining about the lack of HD channels


again GREAT POST...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15570827
> 
> 
> Or maybe they realize that based on the monopoly they have, they don't need to make such a leap to HDTV, because in the end... people will pay for it. *You've got the older folks who don't want change and will gladly overpay for analog channels.*



Totally agree with up to the point I bolded but I'd like you to clarify...what are "older folks" to you?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15570827
> 
> 
> One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still. People with HDTV's seem to have this odd feeling that the world owes them HD programming because they spent a fortune on a TV that can show it. Heck, the 2009 transition isn't even to HD, but "digital".
> 
> 
> You need to rephrase that comment as to what "you" want. Again, some HDTV owners seem to see HDTV programming as a birthright or something.
> 
> 
> You are clued in on this global recession right? If 1 in 4 tvs are HDTV's, that isn't quite a huge mandate from the consumers. And that percentage shouldn't be changing too much as credit gets squeezed and people need to pay cash for these things.
> 
> 
> "freeloaders"? Are you kidding me?! They can't afford $100+ a month for cable and you call them "freeloaders"? Speak about being out of touch.



Well said. nickdawg frequently crosses up on this point. My problem with most analog from TW is it plain looks bad. Now I understand that "analog" doesn't mean digital picture is better, but it sure appears that way EXCEPT for locals which for some odd reason they take analog and convert to digital. I say just let them be in analog, but I'm sure they have their reasons for doing this.

*I'd like to see* TW go ahead and give out boxes to people who have lifeline cable and change everything to digital. Those who are already paying for expanded basic, they can pop for another 10 bucks for the box, if it's that much. Lifeline folks would still be limited to the channels that they pay for, expanded people would become digital customers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15571083
> 
> 
> Look, hookbill, I like ya. You're a good guy. A bit cranky, but I've never experienced your wrath at a TWC customer service office



I like you too, dude. I don't have a clue as to why I appear cranky, I think I've got an off beat sense of humor. Too many people don't hang around here as long as you and I have, and despite nickdawgs rants I like him too. Matter of fact there is a whole slew of people that are either new or I'm just noticing (like yespage) that I enjoy who contribute to this thread.


As far as that incident at ADELPHIA (not TWC) those people are gone now and the doctors have changed my medication. I don't go off on people in public anymore.


That last part was a bit of my off beat humor.....or was it????


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15570827
> 
> 
> Or maybe they realize that based on the monopoly they have, they don't need to make such a leap to HDTV, because in the end... people will pay for it. You've got the older folks who don't want change and will gladly overpay for analog channels. Or even that the vast majority of households don't even have an HDTV.



You see, I didn't say they need to get HDTVs, just add more HDTV channels. TO do that, all TWC would have to do is cut off ALL analog basic cable except for the 12 or 13 local broadcast. That means the 60+ national networks are gone. If you want locals only, fine. If you want more than locals, GET A DAMN CABLE BOX!!! I don't understand this aversion to cable boxes, other than $$$. BUT, if you're leasing digital cable boxes to almost all of your customers, the price of those boxes could come down, making them more affordable. And if they're more affordable, there won't be a problem getting an extra one for the bedroom or kitchen. And the folks at Scientific Atlanta would be very happy to sell some more 4250s and 8300s!











> Quote:
> One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still. People with HDTV's seem to have this odd feeling that the world owes them HD programming because they spent a fortune on a TV that can show it. Heck, the 2009 transition isn't even to HD, but "digital".



One thing is clear, you are underestimating HDTV. Even though the mandate is DIGITAL, the FIVE major Networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, CW, FOX) and PBS all broadcast a high definition network feed and almost(if not all) their affiliates broadcast in HDTV. In two years, the handful of HDTV cable stations that have been constant for 5+ years before that grew exponentially. Just this year, ABC and CBS news invested in HDTV network news coverage for evening news and primetime magazine plus covering the entire convention/election in HDTV. ABC News has an entire lineup of HD news programming, NBC is close behind and CBS is catching up once the Early Show goes HD. Local news stations are also moving to HDTV. It's even being used in the branding. Once NBC Cleveland went HD, WEWS and even bottom feeder WOIO were not far behind. Syndicated HD used to consist of Wheel and Jeopardy. Now there are so many shows, many of which are available, but not here on WOIO or WUAB. Obviously this was all done because this "little HD thing" as you seem to think it, is something. They do owe it to us because money talks, and we all know what walks!











> Quote:
> You need to rephrase that comment as to what "you" want. Again, some HDTV owners seem to see HDTV programming as a birthright or something.



Hmmm, there seems to be a general consensus here on this forum, the entire national AVS forum, Ohio Media Watch, Tivo Forums,and any other forum you can think of. I'm sure TWC gets hundreds of emails daily about this issue. It's not a "birthright" as you put it so crassly. It's more of this is the way of the future. Digital, whether it be HD or SD, is the future. It's time to stop dragging our heels in technology because a few brain dead morons can't comprehend the message of several millions of ads that have been running since 2007.



> Quote:
> You are clued in on this global recession right? If 1 in 4 tvs are HDTV's, that isn't quite a huge mandate from the consumers. And that percentage shouldn't be changing too much as credit gets squeezed and people need to pay cash for these things.



But HDTVs sold in huge numbers this season, and they still do. Local TWC office couldn't even keep HD boxes in stock. Everyone in line when I was there last month was getting a HD box. I don't even think I saw a single SDTV box leave that place. Regardless of whether or not they have an HDTV set, they still have *HD DIGITAL CABLE* boxes, which means they are watching all the channels in DIGITAL. Analog is only left for TVs without the boxes. Why the hell are we doing that? Make the rest of the customers get boxes.



> Quote:
> "freeloaders"? Are you kidding me?! They can't afford $100+ a month for cable and you call them "freeloaders"? Speak about being out of touch.



I have *NO*, read my lips, *NO* pity for people who can't pay their cable bill. I have to cut and save like mad every month to pay those blood suckers, but I still pay my "flirting with $100" a month bill. People like you act like cable TV is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. Nobody NEEDS cable TV. So those of us willing to pay this extra expense every month DESERVE to get our money's worth. Those of us paying for HDTV boxes and digital tier channels should not have our wallets industrial Hoovered by people who spit on us to provide more channels to those who pay almost nothing, and can connect an infinite number of TVs to the analog cable line, thus making them FREELOADERS! If I want Digital/HD on my others, I need a box. A box I pay for. Why should I have a piss poor selection of channels when someone who pays one flat rate for analog gets infinite programming choices on infinite TVs? Analog cable did not have this size lineup back in the days when analog was the only cable out there. There's no need when the nation and the world is going digital to keep having so much available in analog. You cannot justify keeping all the current analog channels available in analog. If you try to argue that, it would be equivalent to arguing that analog OTA should never end, even though it is terribly inefficient and hindering progress.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15572484
> 
> 
> Totally agree with up to the point I bolded but I'd like you to clarify...what are "older folks" to you?



The older people who are afraid of change, or overwhelmed by it. I was telling a local person in my neighborhood about Dish Network having an uber-cheap base package, but they wanted to stick with TWC because it was simpler. New boxes, new wires, new remotes, new channel locations, that can be a bother to some who'd rather stay from change and stick with ole reliable enough.



> Quote:
> That last part was a bit of my off beat humor.....or was it????



Oh I hate cliff hangers.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15571497
> 
> 
> My biggest one as a HD TV owner..is that some area get we more HD channels then we do and its not like we are talking some place on the west coast..but Just a few miles south in Ohio..(Mid Ohio)..there options are soo much greater then ours. If we had those channels you wouldn't be seeing many people complaining about the lack of HD channels



But you know what? We're the problem they face. You and I. And hookbill, and nickdawg, and all the rest of us here talking to each other on the Internet on forums like this one.


Without the Internet, how are you, in Erie, going to know that TWC Mid-Ohio has more HD channels? You might have a relative in Columbus, or be visiting and see an ad in the Columbus Dispatch, but other than that...you'd never know.


I thinK TWC and other cable companies, cable and satellite channels and other providers are not at all prepared to deal with this effect.


Look at the mess with SportsTime Ohio and DirecTV blocking STO for non-Cleveland/Akron/Canton/Youngstown/Columbus subscribers back when it first started.


That mess went through the roof because, well, of people getting information online and realizing they COULD have something (STO), but it was being withheld from them arbitrarily by the satellite company.


DirecTV also would rather you not have known that Dish Network distributed STO even in the first year for the entire Indians broadcast territory.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15572554
> 
> 
> As far as that incident at ADELPHIA (not TWC) those people are gone now and the doctors have changed my medication. I don't go off on people in public anymore.



That's good for both public safety and your own health.










And I'm glad TWC could contribute to the peace. I was no fan of Adelphia, either, and despite the current issues (HD, etc.), I'm much happier with them than I was with Adelphia.


You do remember that an Adelphia customer service phone rep insulted me directly?







Of course, I also had nice, friendly phone chats with another (female) Adelphia rep up in PA...too bad she wasn't down here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15573317
> 
> 
> The older people who are afraid of change, or overwhelmed by it. I was telling a local person in my neighborhood about Dish Network having an uber-cheap base package, but they wanted to stick with TWC because it was simpler. New boxes, new wires, new remotes, new channel locations, that can be a bother to some who'd rather stay from change and stick with ole reliable enough.



Hmmmmmm....This is about as politically correct as you can get. You answered the question without mentioning an age group so you didn't offend.


Now I wonder if you're this quick on your feet in person, or if it took a little bit of time to come up with this response.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15569746
> 
> 
> I hope you're not looping me in the group of people or person that is crying foul on the SDV thing. I personally don't care if it ever gets here. I just don't like cable companies.



No, by all means I'm not lumping you in that group. In fact, my intent was not to lash out at those crying foul on SDV but rather pointing out that all the different options TW /COULD/ take aren't all feasible but SDV creates the fewest problems from a PR standpoint.


Rather though, I'm not pointing any fingers, but just talking about 'people' as a whole who tend to go off all half-cocked just because they aren't personally pandered to like royalty.


Yes, TW has some legitimate issues that should be adressed including the copy protection mess you mentioned hookbill. But you'll see this from any company in any region. Just some people seem to get involved with this stuff more than others.



On a lighter note, I've started to realise how even my own mother is beginning to catch the HD bug even though she's really tech-illiterate. I've had to start explaining why some shows are pillarboxed and why we have so few HD channels, etc.


----------



## hookbill

I just heard this on Action 19 News.










Jeff Tancheck just went out there and predicted, get this, 4 to 9 inches of snow. He said NWS hasn't issued any warnings but he has a "feeling" it will be worst. Channel 5 is predicting 2-4 inches.


I give him credit for having some guts, let's see if he's right.


----------



## hookbill

Now this is why they are the king of garbage: Oprah Winfrey on Crack. They "reported" that some dude who is going to die of cancer in 2 years is writing a "tell all" book saying that Oprah was a crackhead in the 80's.


Now what makes this so funny is the very person who is "reporting" this say's, "we don't know if this is true or not."


Huh? Then why the heck are you even reporting this.


Ridiculous.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15570827
> 
> 
> One thing is clear, you are overestimating the importance of HDTV. One reason I haven't gotten an HDTV is the lack of programming... still.



I'm curious about your "lack of programming" in HD comment. What do you frequently watch in SD that isn't available in HD by one of the available providers?


The only things we watch SD on D* is "Mad Men" on AMC and it should be available in HD by next season; plus, maybe something on the Travel Channel once in a while which is also rumored to be a near term add to their HD channels.


----------



## JJkizak

I'm still waiting for the chill index advisory that Tanchek said we all should run away and hide from. The weather programs are really laughable. Ten seconds of weather expanded to 35 minutes of program time. Yes, it's winter and it's cold and it does snow and occasionally there is freezing rain. Tanchek needs to take a few more dumps into Lake Erie.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15575862
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for the chill index advisory that Tanchek said we all should run away and hide from. The weather programs are really laughable. Ten seconds of weather expanded to 35 minutes of program time. Yes, it's winter and it's cold and it does snow and occasionally there is freezing rain. Tanchek needs to take a few more dumps into Lake Erie.
> 
> JJK



But he's on a roll! Let's see if he hit's it again tomorrow. He says it will be until Sunday evening that the 4-9 will occur.


I really don't like him but I give credit when due. Sometimes.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, all I'll say on this sh*tty weather is the weather channel is showing another big clipper headed down this way from up near the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc.. How much it dumps is another story altogether.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15573245
> 
> 
> they still have *HD DIGITAL CABLE* boxes, which means they are watching all the channels in DIGITAL. .



Should read: ".....they are watching some channels that originate from a digital signal and some converted into digital from a poor analog signal. "


----------



## yespage

4 to 9 inches? Maybe if you combine all the possible snow for the weekend and the following week. What a loon!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15575862
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for the chill index advisory that Tanchek said we all should run away and hide from. The weather programs are really laughable. Ten seconds of weather expanded to 35 minutes of program time. Yes, it's winter and it's cold and it does snow and occasionally there is freezing rain. Tanchek needs to take a few more dumps into Lake Erie.
> 
> JJK



Not to defend what is typically garbage Channel 19 news coverage, but we had wind chills colder than 20 below on Friday. That is serious stuff.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> You see, I didn't say they need to get HDTVs, just add more HDTV channels. TO do that, all TWC would have to do is cut off ALL analog basic cable except for the 12 or 13 local broadcast. That means the 60+ national networks are gone.



TWC is a business. A Business has a model that dictates the decisions they make. Some day in the future cable will be 100% digital. Just not today. The cost to give out boxes to the majority of analog only subs at this time would be prohibitive. Forcing digital boxes on the analog subs is unacceptable at this point. Why? Because they are still in the MAJORITY! Until the day that digital cable can be as user friendly as the current analog cable system is (i.e. cable ready, no limit on the number of sets hooked up etc.) then we will still have analog cable around.


Put yourself in TWC's shoes. Would you cut off the analog tier that generates ~$50/mo per sub, making all those subs ~$10 lifeline subs? BTW Those analog subs subsidize your digital cable to a degeree. If you wanted 100% pure digital cable today, be prepaired to pay more, a lot more. Be careful what you wish for, it may come true and bite you in the wallet!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15578928
> 
> 
> 4 to 9 inches? Maybe if you combine all the possible snow for the weekend and the following week. What a loon!
> 
> Not to defend what is typically garbage Channel 19 news coverage, but we had wind chills colder than 20 below on Friday. That is serious stuff.



I dunno. I heard a few years back some "expert" on the weather who said that wind chill temperatures are not real, that they were made up by television. As I recall what was said basically was the air is what the temperature is, and yes the wind may feel colder to you but the temperature is still the same.


I know I was out in it a bit yesterday and even with long underwear, and heavy coat it was cutting. Thick wool socks weren't much help either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15579101
> 
> 
> TWC is a business. A Business has a model that dictates the decisions they make. Some day in the future cable will be 100% digital. Just not today. The cost to give out boxes to the majority of analog only subs at this time would be prohibitive. Forcing digital boxes on the analog subs is unacceptable at this point. Why? Because they are still in the MAJORITY! Until the day that digital cable can be as user friendly as the current analog cable system is (i.e. cable ready, no limit on the number of sets hooked up etc.) then we will still have analog cable around.
> 
> 
> Put yourself in TWC's shoes. Would you cut off the analog tier that generates ~$50/mo per sub, making all those subs ~$10 lifeline subs? BTW Those analog subs subsidize your digital cable to a degeree. If you wanted 100% pure digital cable today, be prepaired to pay more, a lot more. Be careful what you wish for, it may come true and bite you in the wallet!



I have to question really what the majority is. I know it isn't digital customers but I doubt it's lifeline either. I'll bet the majority is expanded basic.

*If* I'm correct I think my idea of offering lifeline only free boxes and then charging digital boxes to the customers who have expanded basic people makes sense. Once they saw the improvement of quality expanded basic people would gladly shell out the 10 bucks a month or so for the box. They would digitally broadcast the channels for existing expanded basic, and eliminate any analog or conversion.


Just a thought.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15579209
> 
> 
> I have to question really what the majority is. I know it isn't digital customers but I doubt it's lifeline either. I'll bet the majority is expanded basic.
> 
> *If* I'm correct I think my idea of offering lifeline only free boxes and then charging digital boxes to the customers who have expanded basic people makes sense. Once they saw the improvement of quality expanded basic people would gladly shell out the 10 bucks a month or so for the box. They would digitally broadcast the channels for existing expanded basic, and eliminate any analog or conversion.
> 
> 
> Just a thought.



I believe the analog "expanded basic" subs are the majority. $10/mo per TV would be a deal killer for most expanded basic households. Like I said make digital cable as user friendly as the current "expanded basic" analog before taking away the 60+ analog channels. The current "fix" for people without a digital TV is for the cable company to do the conversion back to analog. That is much cheaper than deploying digital cable boxes systemwide.


BTW I'm one of the rare few not in TWC territory, we have COX at work and if I chose to get cable (over my beloved E*) COX is the only choice. My friends down the street have a choice of TWC or WOW (they have WOW) but on the Parma side of the line no WOW, just COX. Anyway I digress, what I'd like to know is does TWC scramble any analog channels currently or are all 60+ in the clear (like it is on COX)? Traps for lifeline do not count. I mean can an "expanded basic" sub on TWC hook any cable ready analog set and get the full 60+ analog channels without a box of any kind? That is what will be necessary for digital cable before it's accepted by the majority.


I read your horror stories over cable cards and disappearing QAM channels. Those issues have to go away for good to get the majority to buy into digital cable.


----------



## ErieMarty

flipping through the HD Channels and I found HD Texas Holdem Poker on Fox Ohio in HD channel...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15580342
> 
> 
> I read your horror stories over cable cards and disappearing QAM channels. Those issues have to go away for good to get the majority to buy into digital cable.



I've had a couple of problems with cable cards, but really the biggest problem I seem to have is TW doesn't want to hit all my cards when they add channels. Take MLB network. They seemed to hit 4 of my cards but didn't hit the S3, and that's the one they usually miss. Untrained CSR's want to put you through the motions before (or if) they will actually help you.


Usually what I do now when they tell me to do something I just say OK and wait for my opportunity to instruct them on what needs to be done. That's usually at the point of "We need to send a tech...". It's really not as bad as it seems.


Or I call my contact at head end.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15580418
> 
> 
> flipping through the HD Channels and I found HD Texas Holdem Poker on Fox Ohio in HD channel...



Yeah, TiVo cheerfully told me about some channel in the 800's that was added. I don't think it was an english channel. However those morons over at Tribune Media can't seem to add data for MLB Network.


Sorry Inundated, it gets me cranky.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15580642
> 
> 
> Yeah, TiVo cheerfully told me about some channel in the 800's that was added. I don't think it was an english channel. However those morons over at Tribune Media can't seem to add data for MLB Network.
> 
> 
> Sorry Inundated, it gets me cranky.



Yeah, "morons". Like, they have nothing else to do. They're playing solitaire on the computer, and refuse to add MLB Network because they'd have to stop their game.


Uhhh...no.










But relax, hookbill...I sent off my missive that worked last time to fix FSN Ohio.


----------



## quern

Hi ya'll. I just need to vent. I have been trying to get a M stream cable card installed for three weeks with TWC and STILL haven't gotten it!! 1st time they coded me as a weak signal... I told them I needed a cable card install. Great... So last week I get a call 1.5 hrs into my schedule stating that they don't have any. Today the guy shows up and can't get the M card to work, statement is made that the card wasn't in inventory... so he tries two different s cards and can't get them to work. Now I have wasted my entire day calling to get this straightened out (multiple holds one promised call back with nothing, etc...). The tech that came out today calls and tells me the M card he had was from canton and can't get it to work and they are all out of cable cards. This is just shoddy customer service at it's finest. I have been craving to use my new TivoHD and now have a "call back" set to establish a service call once again. This is all total B.S. and I have e-mailed Steve Fry. If Fios were here I'd be scheduling my switch today.


Thanks for letting me rant.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/15581555
> 
> 
> Hi ya'll. I just need to vent. I have been trying to get a M stream cable card installed for three weeks with TWC and STILL haven't gotten it!! 1st time they coded me as a weak signal... I told them I needed a cable card install. Great... So last week I get a call 1.5 hrs into my schedule stating that they don't have any. Today the guy shows up and can't get the M card to work, statement is made that the card wasn't in inventory... so he tries two different s cards and can't get them to work. Now I have wasted my entire day calling to get this straightened out (multiple holds one promised call back with nothing, etc...). The tech that came out today calls and tells me the M card he had was from canton and can't get it to work and they are all out of cable cards. This is just shoddy customer service at it's finest. I have been craving to use my new TivoHD and now have a "call back" set to establish a service call once again. This is all total B.S. and I have e-mailed Steve Fry. If Fios were here I'd be scheduling my switch today.
> 
> 
> Thanks for letting me rant.



There is no reason why 2 S cards will not work. I have two in my S3 and my TiVo HD


The only thing I can tell you is you will have to watch these guys like a hawk. They make mistakes on these installs. All it takes is to misread a letter on the card.


Practice learning the navigation screens on the CC menu. Find out where the emm's are, they need to know that. And YOU handle the remote. Don't let them touch it.


Also pay close attention to when they call in the CC#'s as I said before I caught them making an error. Write down the CC (s) number as well, it will come in handy. I have mine set up in word.


----------



## quern

Thanks Hookbill. I will look into this for Next Saturday's install. FWIW, after Two calls to dispatch the tech called back and told me the M card he had was from Canton and that is why it wouldn't work. An entire wasted day for a $20 credit, cauliflower ear from being on hold so darn long (plus the multiple transfers between departments) and another scheduled install. YIPPIE!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/15581919
> 
> 
> Thanks Hookbill. I will look into this for Next Saturday's install. FWIW, after Two calls to dispatch the tech called back and told me the M card he had was from Canton and that is why it wouldn't work. An entire wasted day for a $20 credit, cauliflower ear from being on hold so darn long (plus the multiple transfers between departments) and another scheduled install. YIPPIE!



What? That sounds like a bunch of garbage they are feeding you.


What difference would it make if it was from Canton unless they use Moto software. An SA card is an SA card and a single M card should work.


Sending Fry an email is still a good idea, someone from his office will contact your area manager and you should get some results, but as far as I know M cards in this area are very, very hard to come by if in fact they even have them.


There are other TiVo owners who read this thread. Maybe one of them has an M card. I can't remember.


----------



## hookbill

According to their web page, over 500 stores and something like 34,000 jobs.


Just wanted to post if anybody is looking for deals, they are having a liquidation sale.

http://www.circuitcity.com/closed.html


----------



## Vchat20

Yup. Going out next week to see what's still available at our local store. If I can pick up some DDR ram dirt cheap, I'm jumping all over that. Got like 4 computers here all with 512mb of the stuff that are just crawling along.


----------



## JJkizak

Recently on OTA 25.1 only---the sound either is not there, (with correct picture for 25.1) is something from another station called WCNX (with the correct picture for 25.1) on alternate #1 in my menu, or is the correct sound. When I receive the WCNX on alternate #1 if I select alternate #2 I get the correct sound, however if I change the channel then return to 25.1 I have to reset the menu to alternate #2 to get the correct sound track. All the other stations have "alternate audio" greyed out in my menu. This problem is only on 25.1 and not 25 analog, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. Anybody know what is going on? I did a re-scan but the same thing happens.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15569715
> 
> 
> For the few that have TiVo here, and for those who don't and wonder why I make such a fuss about it you can see their display at the CES.
> 
> 
> They have added a new HD search feature and have changed the way TiVo comes back with it's search. You can even search for HD on YouTube.
> 
> 
> nickdawg I know you and I have had some go arounds on this but I don't know if you truly understand the TiVo experience. One of the many things you rant about is lack of technology. Take a look here .
> 
> 
> I'm not saying to everyone go buy a TiVo. I've already said if you're happy then fine, no need to spend extra money and there is no doubt TiVo will cause you to spend some extra money. Just have a look.
> 
> 
> And fwiw, in the TiVo Forum people say that the cost of cable cards and TiVo itself will actually reduce the cost of your cable bill and therefore pay for itself. I don't know if that is true.



So that's what happened to Amy Winehouse!







She's shooting ads for Tivo now. And every time I see that Tivo puppet, I think of this video. I was just waiting for him to go apeshit on the Scientific Atlanta booth with a bat!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15582947
> 
> 
> So that's what happened to Amy Winehouse!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She's shooting ads for Tivo now.



I have actually met Shanan. She's been TiVo's "public face" to subscribers for many years, and in person, she's much better looking than Ms. Winehouse. (And she's not recovering from drug use, to boot!)


Shame on you, nickdawg!











Before hookbill asks, I met her at TC Con '04, I believe it was, in Las Vegas. She's a delightful lady in person.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15583728
> 
> 
> I have actually met Shanan. She's been TiVo's "public face" to subscribers for many years, and in person, she's much better looking than Ms. Winehouse. (And she's not recovering from drug use, to boot!)
> 
> 
> Shame on you, nickdawg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Before hookbill asks, I met her at TC Con '04, I believe it was, in Las Vegas. She's a delightful lady in person.



I don't even know who the heck Amy Winehouse is, I just thought nickdawg was on Space Mountain again. And nickdawg, the video was fun the first time. Do you pick up what I am putting down? Or as they say today, do you feel me?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15579128
> 
> 
> I dunno. I heard a few years back some "expert" on the weather who said that wind chill temperatures are not real, that they were made up by television. As I recall what was said basically was the air is what the temperature is, and yes the wind may feel colder to you but the temperature is still the same.



That's basically right. Wind Chill is fiction. TV weather people love it, though, because it lets them announce colder winter temperatures, which creates more drama, which helps draw in viewers and sell advertising.


By the time I was five, I had figured out that you got cold faster when the wind was blowing. The term "wind chill" hadn't been invented yet, but it didn't prevent anyone from understanding that wind would make you cold faster.


Nonetheless, if it's 35 degrees outside, the wind can blow as hard as it likes and water is still not going to freeze.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15585122
> 
> 
> That's basically right. Wind Chill is fiction. TV weather people love it, though, because it lets them announce colder winter temperatures, which creates more drama, which helps draw in viewers and sell advertising.
> 
> 
> By the time I was five, I had figured out that you got cold faster when the wind was blowing. The term "wind chill" hadn't been invented yet, but it didn't prevent anyone from understanding that wind would make you cold faster.
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, if it's 35 degrees outside, the wind can blow as hard as it likes and water is still not going to freeze.



Thanks. That's a great way to explain it.


Jim, where have you been, you haven't posted in ages?


----------



## JJkizak

Wind chill was used by the Air Force in the Arctic regions and was based on how fast your flesh would freeze. Your body temp is 98.6 and it can maintain body temp pretty well except when it's -40. If there is no exposed skin your good to go for a while anyway. If your hands are exposed in -40 without wind it takes about 5 minutes of exposure for the average person to be in danger of frostbite. If the wind is blowing at 10 knots the time is one minute. Inanimate objects are at air temperature no matter how hard the wind blows. A living live body has to maintain body temp and if the wind is blowing hard enough the body cannot maintain its temperature. When the body temperature reaches about 80 your dead, and just think you have another 120 degrees to go before you reach -40, then your dead by 4 more times. Somebody? has revised the original Air Force chill index and the weather people are beating it to death. These are the things that you do when you have to be outside in -40 weather:

1......no cuts----they freeze first

2......double socks, double pants or "iron pants"

3......waterproof insulated boots

4......parka with fur collar to prevent eye freez-up

5......mittens for gloves---fingered gloves don't work.

6......sun glasses---sun glare on the snow is devastating

7......stay in house untill it warms up


I worked in Greenland, Iceland, NWT Canada, and Alaska for 10 years. I can elaborate on vehicle preparation also. And sled dogs really don't care how cold it is or how hard the wind blows, they just curl up and let it snow over them for protection from the wind and cold. Those dogs are really tough with hugely strong legs and feet and petting them is like petting a wire brush. They just stand around in that -40 weather like it's a walk in the park. There were a couple of times I saw the look in those dogs faces like "HHMMMM, he would make a nice sandwich"

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15585307
> 
> 
> Wind chill was used by the Air Force in the Arctic regions and was based on how fast your flesh would freeze. Your body temp is 98.6 and it can maintain body temp pretty well except when it's -40. If there is no exposed skin your good to go for a while anyway. If your hands are exposed in -40 without wind it takes about 5 minutes of exposure for the average person to be in danger of frostbite. If the wind is blowing at 10 knots the time is one minute. Inanimate objects are at air temperature no matter how hard the wind blows. A living live body has to maintain body temp and if the wind is blowing hard enough the body cannot maintain its temperature. When the body temperature reaches about 80 your dead, and just think you have another 120 degrees to go before you reach -40, then your dead by 4 more times. Somebody? has revised the original Air Force chill index and the weather people are beating it to death. These are the things that you do when you have to be outside in -40 weather:
> 
> 1......no cuts----they freeze first
> 
> 2......double socks, double pants or "iron pants"
> 
> 3......waterproof insulated boots
> 
> 4......parka with fur collar to prevent eye freez-up
> 
> 5......mittens for gloves---fingered gloves don't work.
> 
> 6......sun glasses---sun glare on the snow is devastating
> 
> 7......stay in house untill it warms up
> 
> 
> I worked in Greenland, Iceland, NWT Canada, and Alaska for 10 years. I can elaborate on vehicle preparation also. And sled dogs really don't care how cold it is or how hard the wind blows, they just curl up and let it snow over them for protection from the wind and cold. Those dogs are really tough with hugely strong legs and feet and petting them is like petting a wire brush. They just stand around in that -40 weather like it's a walk in the park.
> 
> JJK



Interesting! So wind plays a factor in super sub temperatures more then wind would effect you at 35 degrees. So are you saying that at lets say 6 degrees and wind blowing at 10-15 mph you would be subject to frost bite quicker then a 0 wind?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15585122
> 
> 
> That's basically right. Wind Chill is fiction. TV weather people love it, though, because it lets them announce colder winter temperatures, which creates more drama, which helps draw in viewers and sell advertising.



Such ignorance. The national weather service notes wind chills as well. Are they do ing it for the advertising bucks?











> Quote:
> By the time I was five, I had figured out that you got cold faster when the wind was blowing. The term "wind chill" hadn't been invented yet, but it didn't prevent anyone from understanding that wind would make you cold faster.
> 
> 
> Nonetheless, if it's 35 degrees outside, the wind can blow as hard as it likes and water is still not going to freeze.



And tomorrow Jim Gilliland will demonstrate that evolution is false because there are still monkeys. The " wind chill " is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. Or maybe you should start telling us how the "heat index" is fake too and that a heat index of 215 degrees won't boil water.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15585026
> 
> 
> I don't even know who the heck Amy Winehouse is, I just thought nickdawg was on Space Mountain again. And nickdawg, the video was fun the first time. Do you pick up what I am putting down? Or as they say today, do you feel me?



As near as I can tell, she's a marginally talented pop music singer most known for her alleged drug abuse and a hit song "Rehab".


I couldn't tell you what her voice sounds like, and her music is (thankfully) not part of my life. I also don't know anything about her other than what filters into "mainstream" news reports, but from the pictures I've seen, she's UGLY.


Shanan is no Amy Winehouse, thank goodness.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15586122
> 
> 
> Such ignorance. The national weather service notes wind chills as well. Are they do ing it for the advertising bucks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And tomorrow Jim Gilliland will demonstrate that evolution is false because there are still monkeys. The " wind chill " is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. Or maybe you should start telling us how the "heat index" is fake too and that a heat index of 215 degrees won't boil water.



Dude, calm down.










This stuff is all kind of off topic. I mean this is the HDTV local reception thread. Weather itself has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.


I started it, so it's my fault. Be kind to Jim, he's been around here for a while.


And doesn't water boil at 212 degrees?


----------



## hookbill

As I mentioned my wife is recovering from elective surgery. So I set her up in the room with the 28 inch screen and the SA box. It's where she likes to watch TV sometimes.


She's a computer freak so she's got her laptop with her. I showed her how she could watch the programs we watch together usually on the computer using TiVo desktop. She was amazed at the pq on her computer.


I noticed she was watching HGTV in SD so in introduced her to HGTV HD (God, it really is better in HD- wife) and On Demand. She spotted Kitchen Nightmares on BBC so she's a happy camper entertainment wise.


This pleases me because it allowed me to watch the shows that I wasn't allowed to watch since she was upstairs. And it also allows me to dump shows I don't care about after the download, thus saving disk space and allowing me to watch football live.


That is, if she stops paging me every 15 minutes.










See nickdawg: Best of both worlds, SA and TiVo!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15586122
> 
> 
> Such ignorance. The national weather service notes wind chills as well. Are they do ing it for the advertising bucks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And tomorrow Jim Gilliland will demonstrate that evolution is false because there are still monkeys. The " wind chill " is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about. Or maybe you should start telling us how the "heat index" is fake too and that a heat index of 215 degrees won't boil water.



Easy there, tiger. We can't let this place descend into chaos at the hands of newbies and almost-never posteds.


There's no room here for all this anarchy and chaos. That's *MY* job!!
























Watch It, Sucka!!!

[IMG http://files.blog-city.com/files/J05...unt_esther.jpg [/IMG]


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15587603
> 
> 
> Easy there, tiger. We can't let this place descend into chaos at the hands of newbies and almost-never posteds.
> 
> 
> Watch It, Sucka!!!
> 
> [IMG http://files.blog-city.com/files/J05...unt_esther.jpg [/IMG]



Not that I want to pick on yespage but I just checked. Water does boil at 212 degrees .


It's OK yespage, we like you still.


Hey nickdawg, did you copy that off that high quality Navigator HD DVR?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15585026
> 
> 
> I don't even know who the heck Amy Winehouse is, I just thought nickdawg was on Space Mountain again. And nickdawg, the video was fun the first time. Do you pick up what I am putting down? Or as they say today, *do you feel me?*



I hope not. Isn't that Mrs. Hookbill's job?































But anyway, that video confirmed why I won't get a Tivo. Did you hear the part where that suit was talking about that "new advanced search feature"(which I've had since last May on Navigator







)? He said it only works on the SE and HD boxes. So if you have one of their older series 1 or 2 boxes, you're SOL. Sounds like Tivo takes planned obsolescence to the extreme, I've seen those non-HD Tivos at the local Best Buy when I was there a few months back. How nice, only giving the features to those who spend over $500 for their recorder. Compared to TWC, I get all the features(except DVR) on any STB, new or old. It may be slower on the older boxes, but it is not limited.


Some other issues I have, why the f would shows be sorted "by popularity"? I prefer the SA way, by the alphabet. I don't want shows listed by that, since what Tivo thinks is "popular" may not be to me. Let's say I'm looking for the CBS Evening News or CBS 19 News, I don't want that wench from "The Closer" listed first, since she is supposedly "popular".


Also, I don't like the flashy, pretty graphics. And all the pictures on screen. That must be a beast on the memory. How slow must that run in actual conditions? I disagree with OS that hog memory for the sake of pretty graphics(ala Vista!).


I'm also not "feeling" the online crap. The last thing I want to watch on my 50 inch 1080p TV is compressed to death, squeezed dry Utube videos. Some of those look bad enough on my computer, a 15 inch Dell flat panel. Plus, you trade Free VOD (like your wife likes) in favor of crap like Netflix and Amazon, services you have to pay for on top of the monthly cable and Tivo bills.


It all looks and sounds very nice. I guess that's the result of ad execs and suits who market it. But when you look at cost and practicality, it goes up in smoke. If I never even use VOD(for free), why pay for services? That also goes back to my fundamental gripe with TWC: I WANT LINEAR HD CHANNELS! I want to turn on the TV and see NEW, DIFFERENT programming on channels, not "clips" and a few episodes. I just want to watch "Monk", "Psych", "Burn Notice" and "Rescue Me". But I guess that's not happening here anytime soon



































!!! But I know I'm in the fast lane to that in HD with the SA box, since I can guarantee that those new channels will be SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15587734
> 
> 
> 
> Hey nickdawg, did you copy that off that high quality Navigator HD DVR?



No, but at least it would be digital on Navigator. All those channels under 100 would be coming in analog on Tivo














!


Here we go again!!!


And BTW, thanks for the "heads up" on Ramsay on BBC. I love Kitchen Nightmares and Hell's Kitchen. Too bad they're showing the same American versions I've seen before.


And they're awesome on BBC, he actually says ****!!


OOPS, I guess I can't even say **** here.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15582018
> 
> 
> What difference would it make if it was from Canton unless they use Moto software. An SA card is an SA card and a single M card should work.



Cable tv architecture is a complex thing. There could be separate controllers, databases, IP ranges, etc for different areas. Migrating a card across those boundaries might be a little more complex than it seems at first glance.


I just migrated my cell phone from one carrier to another. There's a similar set of complexities involved in this process, whihc can result in a number not being reachable from all areas at first. Or not working in all areas correctly for awhile.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15587881
> 
> 
> I hope not. Isn't that Mrs. Hookbill's job?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But anyway, that video confirmed why I won't get a Tivo. Did you hear the part where that suit was talking about that "new advanced search feature"(which I've had since last May on Navigator
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )? He said it only works on the SE and HD boxes. So if you have one of their older series 1 or 2 boxes, you're SOL. Sounds like Tivo takes planned obsolescence to the extreme, I've seen those non-HD Tivos at the local Best Buy when I was there a few months back. How nice, only giving the features to those who spend over $500 for their recorder. Compared to TWC, I get all the features(except DVR) on any STB, new or old. It may be slower on the older boxes, but it is not limited.



OMG!!!!!
























The advanced search feature he was referring to was the ability to go *OUTSIDE* of your cable system and find HD programming, like at Amazon, Netflix, and YouTube.


Please, don't get a TiVo. It's too complicated for you. You'd never understand it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15587974
> 
> 
> Cable tv architecture is a complex thing. There could be separate controllers, databases, IP ranges, etc for different areas. Migrating a card across those boundaries might be a little more complex than it seems at first glance.
> 
> 
> I just migrated my cell phone from one carrier to another. There's a similar set of complexities involved in this process, whihc can result in a number not being reachable from all areas at first. Or not working in all areas correctly for awhile.



It's hard for me to argue something I will admit I don't fully understand. So you may be right. I'm trying to apply common sense to the cable industry.


Now let me find a nice brick wall to bash my head against. I'm still reeling from nickdawg.


----------



## JJkizak

Nobody answered my question of why OTA 25.1 is transmitting ""alternate Audio". What is alternate audio supposed to be used for? Sure looks cold outside maybe they are transmitting alternate audio for chill index information.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15588130
> 
> 
> OMG!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The advanced search feature he was referring to was the ability to go *OUTSIDE* of your cable system and find HD programming, like at Amazon, Netflix, and YouTube.
> 
> 
> Please, don't get a TiVo. It's too complicated for you. You'd never understand it.



HD on Youtube?































You do know that Youtube is about 320x240 resolution? And HDTV is 1920x1080 or 1280x720? Youtube is not even as good as SD cable or FOX digital widescreen. Bit Torrents are also usually higher.


Besides, I *DON'T* want any extra crap cluttering my guide. I'm pissed enough because TWC includes VOD $hit in my search results.


I DESPISE seeing crap like "#1MD08/Jonas Bros, #2MD08:Soulja Boy, 01/01 S. Silverman cluttering the Search list. Keep that crap on the VOD channel.


And it's hardly "too complicated" for me. I just don't *need* that much hassle to watch TV. Basically, I turn it on and watch. That's what a TV is. I'd be scared if the TV ran my life that much.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15588404
> 
> 
> Nobody answered my question of why OTA 25.1 is transmitting ""alternate Audio". What is alternate audio supposed to be used for? Sure looks cold outside maybe they are transmitting alternate audio for chill index information.
> 
> JJK



It's the secondary audio channel. I'll bet it's Spanish.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15588463
> 
> 
> HD on Youtube?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that Youtube is about 320x240 resolution? And HDTV is 1920x1080 or 1280x720? Youtube is not even as good as SD cable or FOX digital widescreen. Bit Torrents are also usually higher.
> 
> 
> Besides, I *DON'T* want any extra crap cluttering my guide. I'm pissed enough because TWC includes VOD $hit in my search results.
> 
> 
> I DESPISE seeing crap like "#1MD08/Jonas Bros, #2MD08:Soulja Boy, 01/01 S. Silverman cluttering the Search list. Keep that crap on the VOD channel.
> 
> 
> And it's hardly "too complicated" for me. I just don't *need* that much hassle to watch TV. Basically, I turn it on and watch. That's what a TV is. I'd be scared if the TV ran my life that much.



Geeze nickdawg, I don't want to insult you but come on you just can't be that.......aw, nevermind.


Why do I bother? If you go to YouTube you can watch it in HD IF your computer, like my Mac, is capable. Look for the HD button.


Edit: Some of it is HD, not all of it.


----------



## nickdawg

I've never seen a "HD" anything on Youtube. I watch quite a bit of it, and haven't seen that. And even if it is, I highly doubt it is as good as broadcast or cable HDTV.


I've seen the "HD"







Full Episode Player on ABC.com, and it didn't look nowhere near as good as the ABC HD I get through WEWHD. HD, my ---!


----------



## hookbill

Here's another one for you. I was just checking my DVR's to do list. In case you're not aware, Hell's Kitchen returns on 1/29.


I had to reschedule Big Love because of the football game. Go Steelers!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15586122
> 
> 
> Such ignorance. The " wind chill " is a relative scale as to the air's relation with human skin. Please, follow some simple advice, if you are going to assert something, please be sure you know what you are talking about.



(Irrelevant red herrings snipped)

I know exactly how it's defined. It's an arbitrary and imprecise number.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15585157
> 
> 
> Jim, where have you been, you haven't posted in ages?



I read through here every day. But I don't find the need to comment that often. Maybe I'm just too ignorant.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15592545
> 
> 
> (Irrelevant red herrings snipped)
> 
> I know exactly how it's defined. It's an arbitrary and imprecise number.



Actually, you said it was fiction. Not that it is a relative scale at which is used to help predict how long it will take for exposure to freeze skin. Go out in the cold with a wind chill of -35 degrees and see if your skin freezes in the time it'd take when it is -35 or at the air temperature of -10.


You want to say it is arbitrary and imprecise? Do you realize how much of science is based on similar types of equations?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15592719
> 
> 
> Actually, you said it was fiction.



So what you're actually objecting to is my use of hyperbole to make a point. That's fine, be my guest. It doesn't change anything. I've already acknowledged the basic principle here - that the wind will cause warmer objects to cool faster. As I observed, most five-year-olds have figured that out. We don't need a pseudo-science term like "wind chill" to help us understand that. But if you really find it useful, that's OK with me.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15592893
> 
> 
> So what you're actually objecting to is my use of hyperbole to make a point. That's fine, be my guest. It doesn't change anything. I've already acknowledged the basic principle here - that the wind will cause warmer objects to cool faster. As I observed, most five-year-olds have figured that out. We don't need a pseudo-science term like "wind chill" to help us understand that. But if you really find it useful, that's OK with me.



It is used to try and quantify it, not make people aware of the existence of 'wind makes people colder', rather know what threat the wind will be, such as in Northern Minnesota where the wind chill was dropping to as low as 60 below. They set this criteria to help people from dying, such as the homeless. You make it sound as if it is a meteorologist conspiracy to gain ratings.


Might as well complain about the Saffir-Simpson scale for hurricanes being arbitrary too.


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

Alternate #1 is most of the time the correct English audio on 25.1 OTA. Sometimes they flop it to alternate $2 but the TV will always default to #1. When they flop it to alternate #2 alternate, #1 changes to WNCX (radio or TV station). The alternate audio on 25.1 should be greyed out as they are on all of the other channels--every one except 25.1. I also assumed that the alternate audio channels were supposed to be Spanish but on 25.1 they are not. Me thinks they know not what they do, but if they do they ain't tellin anybody.

JJK


----------



## JJkizak

The problem with the dramativization of the chill index by the weather people is the people think eventually that it is the real air temperature. It seems to be really "chic" to say 60 below rather than 0.

JJK


----------



## yespage

Trying to steer back on track, has there been any further word on the possible delay of the Digital Transition from February 19th?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15594674
> 
> 
> The problem with the dramativization of the chill index by the weather people is the people think eventually that it is the real air temperature. It seems to be really "chic" to say 60 below rather than 0.
> 
> JJK



If it is on cable or local network, it is probably dramatized, whether it is politics, sports or weather.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15594641
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> Alternate #1 is most of the time the correct English audio on 25.1 OTA. Sometimes they flop it to alternate $2 but the TV will always default to #1. When they flop it to alternate #2 alternate, #1 changes to WNCX (radio or TV station). The alternate audio on 25.1 should be greyed out as they are on all of the other channels--every one except 25.1. I also assumed that the alternate audio channels were supposed to be Spanish but on 25.1 they are not. Me thinks they know not what they do, but if they do they ain't tellin anybody.
> 
> JJK



OK, I just took a guess since no one answered the question.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15595623
> 
> 
> Trying to steer back on track, has there been any further word on the possible delay of the Digital Transition from February 19th?
> 
> 
> If it is on cable or local network, it is probably dramatized, whether it is politics, sports or weather.



It seems to me like a go on 2/19. Unless Obama issues an executive order. I think he has bigger fish to fry.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15595900
> 
> 
> It seems to me like a go on 2/19. Unless Obama issues an executive order. I think he has bigger fish to fry.



Uhh, it's 2/17/09!!










I've heard that the one bill in the House or Senate was rejected. That should end this issue once and for all. With 27 and less days until the transition, it would be foolish to FIGHT on this issue. Thanks to all the REAL issues out there affecting us, I don't think President Obama (





















) would dare touch this issue ahead of real issues that need attention.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15596132
> 
> 
> Uhh, it's 2/17/09!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard that the one bill in the House or Senate was rejected. That should end this issue once and for all. With 27 and less days until the transition, it would be foolish to FIGHT on this issue. Thanks to all the REAL issues out there affecting us, I don't think President Obama (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) would dare touch this issue ahead of real issues that need attention.



Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15596247
> 
> 
> Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.



Are you kidding!!! There's already morons out there who cannot comprehend what is going to happen on 2/17/09. And now we're going to change the date? After over a year of telling people to be ready by 2/17/09 you do not change the date at the last minute, and definitely not when there are less than 30 days.


It will cause problems, problems to the people who are supposed to take over this bandwidth after the transition dates. Contracts have been made, it's stupid to change everything now. Also, I'm sure the TV stations are not thrilled about having to pay the costs of running *TWO* stations for another 4 or 5 months.


If you're "losing access to television" now, you have nobody to blame but YOURSELF!! It's not like the DTV transition just jumped out from behind the bushes and surprised us. It was known that this was coming and many had to take action to keep watching TV. If they didn't, honestly: F**K THEM!!!


And some act like it is some kind of unalienable "RIGHT" to watch TV. If you think that, you're sorely mistaken. Nobody is entitled to the right to watch TV. There's no need for the television industry to bend over and pander to morons who are oblivious to what is going on around them. There is no need to slow down progress because idiots will be left behind. Where would we be today if we delayed or stopped new technology or progress in the name of protecting the morons?


Now, I'm one who will almost never defend big business or industry. But in this case, I'm with them. Local broadcast stations have had to pay the bills to essentially operate *TWO* TV stations for almost ten years in many cases. They had to spend hundreds of thousands just to upgrade to digital transmission technology to broadcast OTA in digital. And on top of that, many also had to upgrade to HD broadcasting and local HD production, in an attempt to keep up with the times. And how much of a government subsidy did stations get for this? None. They had to makes these upgrades in order to comply with the law. So excuse me for not having pity on someone whining about dropping $60 on a converter box.
























I'm playing a tiny violin right now...


----------



## nickdawg

Here it is. I remember discussing this elsewhere before and saving a list of all the costs that go along with the transition on the broadcast side:


ATSC television transmitter - $950,000


TV broadcast antenna (Price range from side to top mount)Antenna installation - $40,000-200,000


Transmission line cost with installation (1,500 ft) - $85,000


Tower, 1,500 ft, guyed with strobe lights (65 lb wind load -- ?" ice) - $1,800,000


Tower foundation - $200,000


Tower installation - $300,000


Test package, includes RF Analyzer, Transport Stream (TS) Analyzer, DTV Demod., power and A/V monitoring - $120,000


Frequency Reference System - $3,500


Digital or Dual System STL (hot standby w/changeover; 500 ft line, 8 ft antennas) - $150,000


Digital microwave interconnect (500 ft line, 6 ft antennas) - $70,000


STL Tower -- 100 ft, installed - $47,000


XMTR remote control - $25,000-35,000


Line dehydrator system - $3,000


AC Power installation - $25,000-30,000


Regulation & Surge suppression - $35,000


Ducting & forced air system - $10,000-25,000


Installation materials - miscellaneous: wire, strap - $10,000


Equipment racks, complete - $3,500


RF parts (patch panel, elbows) - $7,500-10,000


Directional couplers for power measurement - $7,500-10,000


XMTR Proof-of-Performance - $10,000


RF combiner for N+1 or N-1 - $50,000-75,000


Standby power generator and UPS - $25,000-100,000


That doesn't even include about a $1M investment in master control equipment


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15597152
> 
> 
> Here it is. I remember discussing this elsewhere before and saving a list of all the costs that go along with the transition on the broadcast side:
> 
> 
> ATSC television transmitter - $950,000
> 
> 
> TV broadcast antenna (Price range from side to top mount)Antenna installation - $40,000-200,000
> 
> 
> Transmission line cost with installation (1,500 ft) - $85,000
> 
> 
> Tower, 1,500 ft, guyed with strobe lights (65 lb wind load -- ?" ice) - $1,800,000
> 
> 
> Tower foundation - $200,000
> 
> 
> Tower installation - $300,000
> 
> 
> Test package, includes RF Analyzer, Transport Stream (TS) Analyzer, DTV Demod., power and A/V monitoring - $120,000
> 
> 
> Frequency Reference System - $3,500
> 
> 
> Digital or Dual System STL (hot standby w/changeover; 500 ft line, 8 ft antennas) - $150,000
> 
> 
> Digital microwave interconnect (500 ft line, 6 ft antennas) - $70,000
> 
> 
> STL Tower -- 100 ft, installed - $47,000
> 
> 
> XMTR remote control - $25,000-35,000
> 
> 
> Line dehydrator system - $3,000
> 
> 
> AC Power installation - $25,000-30,000
> 
> 
> Regulation & Surge suppression - $35,000
> 
> 
> Ducting & forced air system - $10,000-25,000
> 
> 
> Installation materials - miscellaneous: wire, strap - $10,000
> 
> 
> Equipment racks, complete - $3,500
> 
> 
> RF parts (patch panel, elbows) - $7,500-10,000
> 
> 
> Directional couplers for power measurement - $7,500-10,000
> 
> 
> XMTR Proof-of-Performance - $10,000
> 
> 
> RF combiner for N+1 or N-1 - $50,000-75,000
> 
> 
> Standby power generator and UPS - $25,000-100,000
> 
> 
> That doesn't even include about a $1M investment in master control equipment



ummm...nickdawg is right.
























The fact that it would cost broadcasters so much, discussed tonight on WJW, probably will kill any idea of extending the deadline.


Unless.......Obama wants to make a big splash at the gate. That decision, IMHO, would not be a good one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15596132
> 
> 
> Uhh, it's 2/17/09!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard that the one bill in the House or Senate was rejected. That should end this issue once and for all. With 27 and less days until the transition, it would be foolish to FIGHT on this issue. Thanks to all the REAL issues out there affecting us, I don't think President Obama (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) would dare touch this issue ahead of real issues that need attention.



Wrong on this one. Democrats are going to try it again, starting tomorrow. Also discussed on WJW.


I still don't think it will go through.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15596247
> 
> 
> Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.



The entire state of Hawaii has already made the switch to digital. This happened on the 15th of January.


----------



## hookbill

I don't know the thinking behind it but for whatever reason, HBO didn't do it in Dolby 5.1.


It was a beautiful spectacle, but I did see several sound drops and pixelation during the event, which I recorded via DVR. Did anyone see it live?


----------



## Andrew K

I have a thought... if the government decides to move the transition date to June, then couldn't the broadcasters just abandon their analog channel anyways? This has already occurred with WMFD and WNEO.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15598248
> 
> 
> I don't know the thinking behind it but for whatever reason, HBO didn't do it in Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> It was a beautiful spectacle, but I did see several sound drops and pixelation during the event, which I recorded via DVR. Did anyone see it live?



Nope. I canned HBO last month in favor of the HDTV Tier(for UHD), since Bill Maher is off until March.


But just because it wasn't in 5.1 doesn't mean it was not good. If it originated in 2/0, then it's good they kept it that way, rather than using that "fake 5.1".


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15598276
> 
> 
> I have a thought... if the government decides to move the transition date to June, then couldn't the broadcasters just abandon their analog channel anyways? This has already occurred with WMFD and WNEO.



Absolutely. One company already filed with the FCC, and I hear rumors that at least three more are considering it.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15598276
> 
> 
> I have a thought... if the government decides to move the transition date to June, then couldn't the broadcasters just abandon their analog channel anyways? This has already occurred with WMFD and WNEO.



The broadcasters have to file take the analog stations silent early. They just can't say "OK, we're done" and shut off analog, they have to have FCC approval, and a reason for doing so.


Both WMFD and WNEO cited various issues, including weather and availability of tower crews, in asking to transition early.


It doesn't sound like that'd be a hard case to make, frankly. And of course, one whole market and one entire state have already "gone early".


I think some markets should coordinate and do the previously scheduled 2/17/09 transition, even if it gets moved. They could say it would provide the FCC with more datapoints between February and June.


Meanwhile, the TV stations could stop this thing in its tracks, by proclaiming the extra cost to run two transmitters isn't budgeted, and announcing more job layoffs if the transition is moved. More bad job news is not what the new administration wants to walk into!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15598990
> 
> 
> Absolutely. One company already filed with the FCC, and I hear rumors that at least three more are considering it.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, help me out here...which company/station/what are you talking about?










And at some point, does it become unnecessary to file with the FCC to take an analog station dark near the transition?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15599054
> 
> 
> Trip, help me out here...which company/station/what are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And at some point, does it become unnecessary to file with the FCC to take an analog station dark near the transition?



WVMH is the one that already filed. They own four stations in West Virginia. (WOWK, WVNS, WTRF, WBOY) Three of the four have to flash-cut.


I'm not going to share the three I heard, because I'm not sure that I should. But I'll say they're major owners.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15599263
> 
> 
> WVMH is the one that already filed. They own four stations in West Virginia. (WOWK, WVNS, WTRF, WBOY) Three of the four have to flash-cut.



Here's WTRF's:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws....1&fac_num=6869 



> Quote:
> IN THE EVENT CONGRESS ENACTS LEGISLATION THAT WOULD DELAY THE CURRENT STATUTORY DTV TRANSITION DEADLINE OF FEBRUARY 17, 2009. THIS NOTIFICATION IS BEING FILED MORE THAN 30 DAYS IN ADVANCE OF FEBRUARY 17, 2009, THE DATE ON WHICH ANALOG OPERATION OF WTRF-TV WILL BE TERMINATED.



The application is dated Thursday 1/15.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15598927
> 
> 
> Nope. I canned HBO last month in favor of the HDTV Tier(for UHD), since Bill Maher is off until March.
> 
> 
> But just because it wasn't in 5.1 doesn't mean it was not good. If it originated in 2/0, then it's good they kept it that way, rather than using that "fake 5.1".



You could have watched it anyway. I posted and someone else confirmed that HBO was making it available to everyone.....even analog people.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15599696
> 
> 
> You could have watched it anyway. I posted and someone else confirmed that HBO was making it available to everyone.....*even analog people*.



Little puffs of smoke just came out of my ear, hearing about the analog freeloaders!!
























I didn't even check. I don't even look at those channels. Part of the reason why I canceled HBO once Bill Maher's season was over. I was paying for that crap and I never looked at it. At least now I get Monk, Psych, Burn Notice and Becker. Plus I recorded "Good Night and Good Luck" on HD Net Movies the other day.


Now I'm just torn about what to do when Bush*, Bill Maher starts next season. I'll prob. have to dump the HDTV Tier and get HBO again.

*I'm watching Countdown and Freudian slipped "Bush" in my comment. Sooo excited about tomorrow. I can't wait to see that new B.O. model turned on and finally kick that old GWB model to the curb.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15596247
> 
> 
> Well, millions of people losing access to television would not be such a small issue. Delaying the transition wouldn't cause much a problem at all.



It means more months of the irritating DTV Transition ads!










It's the same during election time. By election day I'm so FED UP with the barrage of ads for candidates and issues that I really don't care who/what wins! For the love of god........ just STOP BOTHERING ME!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15599923
> 
> 
> Little puffs of smoke just came out of my ear, hearing about the analog freeloaders!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even check. I don't even look at those channels. Part of the reason why I canceled HBO once Bill Maher's season was over. I was paying for that crap and I never looked at it. At least now I get Monk, Psych, Burn Notice and Becker. Plus I recorded "Good Night and Good Luck" on HD Net Movies the other day.
> 
> 
> Now I'm just torn about what to do when Bush*, Bill Maher starts next season. I'll prob. have to dump the HDTV Tier and get HBO again.
> 
> *I'm watching Countdown and Freudian slipped "Bush" in my comment. Sooo excited about tomorrow. I can't wait to see that new B.O. model turned on and finally kick that old GWB model to the curb.



I got HBO on Sunday for two words: BIG LOVE. Great show, but after it ends I'll probably dump HBO again, unless HBO comes up with something better then things like "John from Cincinnati."


I'm also looking forward to todays events. I'm getting a new Blackberry Storm!


Oh, that Presidential thing....Yes, that's important too, I'm looking forward to that as well. I wish the GWB model well, but don't let the door smack your behind as you leave.


----------



## yespage

I'm not saying that delaying wouldn't have issues. It is that the reprecussions of delaying the DTV transition may not be anywhere near the truly bad signs we are seeing with the banking system right now... a total collapse. That said, I was just asking if there was any news on the possible delaying of the date.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15598997
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the TV stations could stop this thing in its tracks, by proclaiming the extra cost to run two transmitters isn't budgeted, and announcing more job layoffs if the transition is moved. More bad job news is not what the new administration wants to walk into!



The banking industry is on the verge of collapse. The DTV transition isn't the big pot on the stove.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15599923
> 
> 
> Little puffs of smoke just came out of my ear, hearing about the analog freeloaders!!



For a guy who is supposedly for Obama, you seem to sound very Republican-esque regarding television. Granted, the world of television and digital signals would be perfect if everyone was as clever as you.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15601553
> 
> 
> I got HBO on Sunday for two words: BIG LOVE. Great show, but after it ends I'll probably dump HBO again, unless HBO comes up with something better then things like "John from Cincinnati."
> 
> 
> I'm also looking forward to todays events. I'm getting a new Blackberry Storm!
> 
> 
> Oh, that Presidential thing....Yes, that's important too, I'm looking forward to that as well. I wish the GWB model well, but don't let the door smack your behind as you leave.



"Big Love"? (sigh) (facepalm). Isn't that the Mormon show? Glad to see that Mitt Romney landed on his feet after the election.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15582738
> 
> 
> Recently on OTA 25.1 only---the sound either is not there, (with correct picture for 25.1) is something from another station called WCNX (with the correct picture for 25.1) on alternate #1 in my menu, or is the correct sound. When I receive the WCNX on alternate #1 if I select alternate #2 I get the correct sound, however if I change the channel then return to 25.1 I have to reset the menu to alternate #2 to get the correct sound track. All the other stations have "alternate audio" greyed out in my menu. This problem is only on 25.1 and not 25 analog, 25.2, 25.3, 25.4, 25.9. Anybody know what is going on? I did a re-scan but the same thing happens.
> 
> JJK



WCNX? I bet what you are hearing is WNCX which is the station that ANALOG WVIZ-TV shares a tower with. I went to the FCC website, there is no such call letters on either the TV or FM database.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15603332
> 
> 
> "Big Love"? (sigh) (facepalm). Isn't that the Mormon show? Glad to see that Mitt Romney landed on his feet after the election.



nickdawg, you are one big trip!


Don't hold back, speak your mind. Got a relative named Archie by any chance?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15602091
> 
> 
> The banking industry is on the verge of collapse. The DTV transition isn't the big pot on the stove.



Well, screw it, then. I'm heading for the hills. No need to worry about anything else when the American economic system won't last through June!


I hope I can learn how to grow my own food.


----------



## bassguitarman

I will remove the offending big box retailers name

My experience picking up my FCC coupon DTV box sunday

or how not to do marketing


With Circuit City dead you'll find this interesting




So I got to ****** in Montrose yesterday to use my DTV coupon and get a DTV converter box.


As usual met by greeter at door


Told him what I wanted


He said those are at customer service


I asked if they had them displayed


No!


So I walk 10 ft over by customer service


Ask what brands they have


Only have the Apex


So I decide I dont wanna drive around all day looking for the Zenith I really wanted


So it takes like 10 minutes to ring up a simple cash sale with the coupon during which time they are staring at me like I'm some sort

of moron. No opportunity to browse anything in store and a general attitude that I was some low life peon since I wanted an over the air DTV converter


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15605610
> 
> 
> I will remove the offending big box retailers name
> 
> My experience picking up my FCC coupon DTV box sunday
> 
> or how not to do marketing
> 
> 
> With Circuit City dead you'll find this interesting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I got to ****** in Montrose yesterday to use my DTV coupon and get a DTV converter box.
> 
> 
> As usual met by greeter at door
> 
> 
> Told him what I wanted
> 
> 
> He said those are at customer service
> 
> 
> I asked if they had them displayed
> 
> 
> No!
> 
> 
> So I walk 10 ft over by customer service
> 
> 
> Ask what brands they have
> 
> 
> Only have the Apex
> 
> 
> So I decide I dont wanna drive around all day looking for the Zenith I really wanted
> 
> 
> So it takes like 10 minutes to ring up a simple cash sale with the coupon during which time they are staring at me like I'm some sort
> 
> of moron. No opportunity to browse anything in store and a general attitude that I was some low life peon since I wanted an over the air DTV converter



Let me guess! Radio Shack?


I wanted a Zenith too but all they had was one brand.


----------



## bassguitarman

Not RS

one of the big two

wont say which

to me it was significant that their handling meant I spent no time looking at stuff I could buy , just 15 minutes standing at customer service counter


----------



## hookbill

Nothing political just noticing. I've had the TV on all day and the referrence people make about him being a rock star are just so true!


I honestly have not heard screaming like this since The Beatles, in 1964.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15605819
> 
> 
> Not RS
> 
> one of the big two
> 
> wont say which
> 
> to me it was significant that their handling meant I spent no time looking at stuff I could buy , just 15 minutes standing at customer service counter



Big Two? Well, I would guess Best Buy since they arn't the store they use to be when they first opened.


My second guess is HH Gregg. I gotta be right about one of those.


Why not just tell us? Wasn't it yespage who said that thing about cliff hangers?


----------



## smokeyspapa

Wal Mart has greeters. You should have purchased it on line, better selection and prices are comparable or better than retail stores. And you wouldn't have to waste your time checking out at customer service!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15604208
> 
> 
> nickdawg, you are one big trip!



Do what now?










- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15604208
> 
> 
> nickdawg, you are one big trip!
> 
> 
> Don't hold back, speak your mind. Got a relative named Archie by any chance?



OK. I squeeze in a quick rant about why Cleveland TV is a toilet. NBC News ended coverage at 5pm. WKYC went to news, WFMJ went into Oprah. OK. CBS News coverage continues. WKBN kept CBS News coverage. The Black Eye on the Tiffany Network know as WOIO went into local news. Or at least that crap that could easily be shamed by a high school production they pass off as a newscast. FOX also has local news at 5. WEWS continued ABC News coverage, until abruptly ending it at 5:05 PM for Power Of 5 Chief ****** bag Mark Johnson to do the weather report.
























What is so stupid about this is, last time I checked, the Inauguration was in Washington DC, NOT Cleveland. There's a live parade I'm watching on CNN analog right now







. I don't give a f**king, flying, rat's ASS about where people are watching the Inauguration in Cleveland, what they think about it or any other thing that has to do with Cleveland. I don't care about your "exclusive reporter" live in Washington, I don't care about your fluff pieces, I don't give a flying f**k about your website FOX!!! This is a NATIONAL event and that's what I want to see. It is completely beyond me why these self-absorbed jackasses do not understand that no one cares about them. Nobody cares about Cleveland. Even the people in NE Ohio don't give a s**t.


So, I turned to cable and I am not looking back. It's a damn shame that the only HD coverage of this is from those four channels and that they are also the only choice for those watching OTA DTV.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> There's a live parade I'm watching on CNN analog right now.



CNN is in HD on Dish Network, and probably DirecTV too. Heck even the friggin' Weather Channel is in HD! Tell TWC to get with it. Don't blame the locals, they loose a ton of advertizing dollars when the regular programming gets preempted.


BTW: I was at work whre all we have is analog cable. I could see that CNN was using HD cameras by the quality of the crowd shots. Even down-rezzed into SD and analog an HD source improves the ocverall picture quality.


----------



## nickdawg

We don't all have Dish Network (shudders) or Directv.










As far as I can see, it looks like crap! On ABC it was 16:9 with a small bug. On CNN, there's tow sidebars(since CNN is a 4:3 channel). On top of that, the bottom of the screen is wasted with a box o' useless crap. Plus, the top part of the screen is wasted with a split screen and an obnoxious bug. Just awful.


CNN.com is streaming it LIVE in 16:9 and crap free(other than a LIVE bug and a smaller CNN bug). The online stream looks better than my TV. I'd watch that on my TV screen, but then I couldn't use the computer. (sigh)


----------



## JJkizak

Michael P 2341:

Actually the radio station was on the bawdy side---so I listened to that while watching the 25.1 video track.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15606957
> 
> 
> We don't all have Dish Network (shudders) or Directv.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I can see, it looks like crap! On ABC it was 16:9 with a small bug. On CNN, there's tow sidebars(since CNN is a 4:3 channel). On top of that, the bottom of the screen is wasted with a box o' useless crap. Plus, the top part of the screen is wasted with a split screen and an obnoxious bug. Just awful.
> 
> 
> CNN.com is streaming it LIVE in 16:9 and crap free(other than a LIVE bug and a smaller CNN bug). The online stream looks better than my TV. I'd watch that on my TV screen, but then I couldn't use the computer. (sigh)



I would find it hard to believe that in real life you complain as much as you do here.


Does every comment have to be a rant or a complaint? HD sucks. Networks suck. Life sucks.


I enjoyed the broadcast in crystal clear HD with Katie Courac. She kept her mouth shut and everyone else just screamed.


----------



## nickdawg

I finally found something I like: MSNBC in analog. I tolerate it because I LOVE Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews. I have three hours of them ahead of me and analog will be tolerable now.


----------



## lbvp

This was from another mailing list.....


From a friend at NBC:


***********************

There were five HD pool camera feeds, fifteen NBC HD camera feeds, two

switched HD pool feeds, eleven 16x9 SD camera feeds (including three

wireless cams), an SD camera feed from Atlanta, another SD feed from Los

Angeles, and an HD camera on the Plaza in New York.


The whole thing was controlled through Studio 1A in New York with

Washington's Control F as backup. In addition, there were SD feeds for

MSNBC's 'Morning Joe', CNBC, and Telemundo routed to their respective

control rooms.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15608201
> 
> 
> This was from another mailing list.....
> 
> 
> From a friend at NBC:
> 
> 
> ***********************
> 
> There were five HD pool camera feeds, fifteen NBC HD camera feeds, two
> 
> switched HD pool feeds, eleven 16x9 SD camera feeds (including three
> 
> wireless cams), an SD camera feed from Atlanta, another SD feed from Los
> 
> Angeles, and an HD camera on the Plaza in New York.
> 
> 
> The whole thing was controlled through Studio 1A in New York with
> 
> Washington's Control F as backup. In addition, there were SD feeds for
> 
> MSNBC's 'Morning Joe', CNBC, and Telemundo routed to their respective
> 
> control rooms.



I was watching NBC's coverage today and the picture quality was absolutely stunning on some of the shots. I'd love to know more of the behind-the-scenes details.


----------



## quern

Hello All:


Just a quick update. I now have a "M" cable card installed in my TivoHD and am a happy camper. My e-mail to Steve Fry resulted in being contacted on Sunday to schedule service with a Time Warner tech for a Tuesday evening install. The service I received since my e-mail has been fantastic and I now get to enjoy learning my Tivo HD unit. Once again, thanks to this community I am able to learn and resolve issues that transpire.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/15608833
> 
> 
> Hello All:
> 
> 
> Just a quick update. I now have a "M" cable card installed in my TivoHD and am a happy camper. My e-mail to Steve Fry resulted in being contacted on Sunday to schedule service with a Time Warner tech for a Tuesday evening install. The service I received since my e-mail has been fantastic and I now get to enjoy learning my Tivo HD unit. Once again, thanks to this community I am able to learn and resolve issues that transpire.



Glad to hear that! The "Steve Fry Card" as we have come to know it here works well.


And welcome to the TiVolution, if this is your first time. Enjoy.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15605610
> 
> 
> I will remove the offending big box retailers name
> 
> My experience picking up my FCC coupon DTV box sunday
> 
> or how not to do marketing
> 
> 
> ......................................
> 
> Only have the Apex
> 
> 
> So I decide I dont wanna drive around all day looking for the Zenith I really wanted.....................



I was in several BB stores just prior too and just after the first of the year and in each case they had DTV boxes galore. They were just stacked on the floor with big DTV BOXES HERE and GET READY FOR DTV signs clearly displayed. There were at least two makes offered as the boxes were clearly different, though I really didn't pay very close attention to such details as I have no need for the converters.


All I can guess is either the BB store you chose is poorly managed or the stock of such boxes is getting thin and such retailers don't want to acquire much more stock of an item that will not be in high demand in another month. Once everyone who needs such boxes have obtained them there will be very little demand going forward.


Just a guess.


----------



## bassguitarman

It was HHGregg


----------



## HD MM

Anyone else in the NE Ohio area having issues with your DirecTV signal?


For 3 days now, I haven't been able to access any of the MPEG4 or HD stations. Only some of the SD channels come in.


I've never had an issue like this with D*, but all the snow and frigid temperatures seem to have wrecked havock on my satellite.


----------



## hookbill

Here's a photo my wife found. Seems appropriate with the conversations around here lately.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15610796
> 
> 
> Glad to hear that! The "Steve Fry Card" as we have come to know it here works well.
> 
> 
> And welcome to the *TiVolution*, if this is your first time. Enjoy.



Oh crap!! They're a cult, trying to take over the world.































And I think I know who the leader is:

HER


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/15611338
> 
> 
> Anyone else in the NE Ohio area having issues with your DirecTV signal?
> 
> 
> For 3 days now, I haven't been able to access any of the MPEG4 or HD stations. Only some of the SD channels come in.
> 
> 
> I've never had an issue like this with D*, but all the snow and frigid temperatures seem to have wrecked havock on my satellite.



Mine has been fine. I've been enjoying their fabulous exclusive coverage of the Australian Open tennis tournament. They have seven HD channels of coverage. The first channel is a split screen that shows six different matches at once. You can use the directional arrows on your remote and select which of the six you want to hear the audio. Below each match is listed who is playing and the current score. If you hit the select button it takes you to the dedicated HD channel for that match. They also have a button programmed on the remote that brings up a menu that allows you to look at things like the draws, the schedule of matches for the day by court, and scores of all completed matches. And the best part - no extra charge for all this. Pretty cool.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15611645
> 
> 
> Oh crap!! They're a cult, trying to take over the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I think I know who the leader is:
> 
> HER



Sigh. Do I have to defend Shanan *again*???










As for the Steve Fry card, I hope the TWCNEO boss is tracking all this, and using the information to improve service/responsiveness to customers who don't know his direct E-Mail address...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15611937
> 
> 
> Sigh. Do I have to defend Shanan *again*???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the Steve Fry card, I hope the TWCNEO boss is tracking all this, and using the information to improve service/responsiveness to customers who don't know his direct E-Mail address...



I really don't think overall that the techs are bad. They just arn't well trained with cable cards and it seems that if you're a TiVo owner that you have to yell to get noticed.


There really isn't any reason for me to use the Fry card anymore. I have a direct contact at headend, and I also have the phone number and name of the manager of the Concord office if I have an issue where I need a tech to come out. I've never used that, just my headend contact. And I try not to bug her too much. Basically if customer service misses after two calls, then she's my "go to person".


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15611178
> 
> 
> It was HHGregg



Understandable. I've never felt all that comfortable there. I can vouch for Best Buy having stacks of Converter Boxes. According to bestbuy.com, They have Apex, Insignia, and a Samsung HDTV Converter ($180)


----------



## hookbill

I've been in that con artist place exactly one time about 10 years ago and I haven't gone back since.


I was purchasing a 100 DVD carousel player (waste of money). They used car sales tatics. I ended up at Best Buy.


----------



## DaMavs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HD MM* /forum/post/15611338
> 
> 
> Anyone else in the NE Ohio area having issues with your DirecTV signal?
> 
> 
> For 3 days now, I haven't been able to access any of the MPEG4 or HD stations. Only some of the SD channels come in.
> 
> 
> I've never had an issue like this with D*, but all the snow and frigid temperatures seem to have wrecked havock on my satellite.



We've had some issues - when the temps were near their lows we started to lose certain HD stations: CNBC, NickHD & Cartoon Network HD were the ones I defiinitely noticed. They came back and then went out again over the last couple days. Most of the other HD fare has been working both MPEG2 and MPEG4 stuff so I was presuming it was one satellite (or part of one) that was flaking - likely due to the snow/ice or just the cold.


We decided to wait until it warms up tomorrow to see if reception returns on the problematic channels...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15612140
> 
> 
> I really don't think overall that the techs are bad. They just arn't well trained with cable cards and it seems that if you're a TiVo owner that you have to yell to get noticed.



I'm just noting that all sorts of questions/problems seem to get resolved by contacting Mr. Fry's office directly, but I'm hoping he's compiling information so people don't have to go to such lengths to get things done right in the normal system.


----------



## Inundated

OK, those with OTA tuners...are you also missing WUAB-DT? I'm getting no signal at all, and have for the past day or two. I normally get a easily lockable OTA signal.


It's present on TWC 6, though I haven't checked HD 406.


I guess I don't watch the channel enough to notice that it's gone!


----------



## JJkizak

Getting it just fine here.

JJK


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15613108
> 
> 
> OK, those with OTA tuners...are you also missing WUAB-DT? I'm getting no signal at all, and have for the past day or two. I normally get a easily lockable OTA signal.
> 
> 
> It's present on TWC 6, though I haven't checked HD 406.
> 
> 
> I guess I don't watch the channel enough to notice that it's gone!



As of 1:30pm today, WUAB-DT (and the "Tube" message on 43-2) are coming in at full strength.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15611178
> 
> 
> It was HHGregg



Oh gawd, I HATE HH Gregg. Oh how I wish that place would bite the dust like Dirty Sh*tty (aka Circuit City) just did. HH Gregg is far worse than CC. One opened up a few years back in my area (Akron) by the mall. It's a crap hole. I was once in there looking for a cheap, small flat screen(desperately wanting to replace the CRT in my kitchen). Anyway, total car salesman ripoff clip joint! The commercials say they have "the best trained sales associates", THEY LIED!!!!!!




























This assbasket tells me that for $XX more I can get a bigger TV. I don't want a 27 or 32 inch TV, it's going in the kitchen in the corner. I want the (I think) 20 inch screen. But they're conveniently out of those. Then he has the nerve to say they are going to be getting a shipment of 1000, no that's not a typo, that is what he said, of the cheap TVs. Like I am supposed to believe a rat hole store will be getting 1000 of ONE model of unit. There's a stack limit on those boxes to prevent damage, so 1000 crates would fill the warehouse, with ONE product!!


Long story short, never went back, never will. For now, I'll either suffer through analog cable or get a OTA converter from a legitimate retailer.


Who knows, since our economy is in the toilet, maybe there will be some good sales and I'll find an affordable small flatscreen. Then I could justify ordering a third HDTV cable box to power that new TV.


----------



## Tim Lones

I never did talk to the salesmen that much..(Belden Village Store)..The place didnt "feel" right for some reason..I did get half off on the GE Superradio AM/FM (The long-distance portable one)..The only thing I ever bought there..


----------



## rluyster

I've purchased several items at HHGregg at good prices with no problems. The trick there, as it is with Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack etc., is to do your own prior research, know what you want when you get there, buy it and quickly exit. The sales staff, with a few exceptions, at all these stores are poorly trained and will only confuse or irritate you. It's a sad commentary but the truth, I'm afraid.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/15614897
> 
> 
> I've purchased several items at HHGregg at good prices with no problems. The trick there, as it is with Best Buy, Circuit City, Radio Shack etc., is to do your own prior research, know what you want when you get there, buy it and quickly exit. The sales staff, with a few exceptions, at all these stores are poorly trained and will only confuse or irritate you. It's a sad commentary but the truth, I'm afraid.



Good point, rluyster..I usually try to do my own research before buying anything..


----------



## nickdawg

Yeah, that's the thing. They advertise this one cheap TV. Once you get there and don't find it, asking someone where it is turns into a sales pitch to get something even more expensive. And they have the most annoying people. You really can't even "browse" and look at features without someone bugging you. "leave me alone!" I (and all of us here) probably know more about HDTVs than what is written in a sales pitch manual.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15613089
> 
> 
> I'm just noting that all sorts of questions/problems seem to get resolved by contacting Mr. Fry's office directly, but I'm hoping he's compiling information so people don't have to go to such lengths to get things done right in the normal system.



Inundated, I don't have to tell you that when you see someone post there probably is 20 people with the same problem. Out of that more then likely most of them get resolved.


Rarely do you go into any electronics forum without seeing a mountain of complaints. Except in the Mac Forum. Happy people there. I don't post much.


----------



## JJkizak

MAC people are different. They expect a MAC to last ten years, even if it is 40 generations behind and you can't get the new stuff to work.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg

MAC










(facepalm)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15615468
> 
> 
> MAC people are different. They expect a MAC to last ten years, even if it is 40 generations behind and you can't get the new stuff to work.
> 
> JJK



You obviously have not looked into Macs. What you say use to be so, but is no longer. My Mac can run anything Windows can run, because not only do I have Leopard 10.6 for my operating system, I also have Vista installed.


I use Windows to run 2 programs: TiVo playlist, and Microsoft Money 07. That's it. I use either Mac's programs or 3rd party software (like Firefox) for everything else. And the only reason I use Firefox is that it has a little "house" on the toolbar to the home page. Safari, on Mac, is just as good if not faster then Firefox. Safari doesn't perform as well on PC.


On my PC all my music was on iTunes.


I'm not saying Mac is better, but I don't have to buy all kinds of software or install it to keep it secure. My Windows runs with my Mac through a program called Parallel which allows me to run Windows at the same time as Mac.


I got the best of both worlds.


----------



## pbarach

I've had very good service in the past at two locally owned stores here in the Cleveland area that have often been willing to match or beat prices at BB and the other big-box stores on TV's and appliances--B&B Appliance and Snow Bros. You should check out similar places in your area!


BTW, I'm not a salesperson and have never worked for any appliance or big-box store. I'm just saying that sometimes there are good alternatives to buying bigbox or online.


----------



## hookbill

This will come as a surprise. I like Circuit City much, much better then Best Buy.


Probably the main reason is location, and with CC closing I will lose not only my closest Box store. Now I will have to drive at least 10 miles to get to one.










The internet is there. And another idea is Target. They have good stuff in there at reasonable prices.


That's probably where I will start buying stuff from. And if they don't have it's www.etc .


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15614818
> 
> 
> I never did talk to the salesmen that much..(Belden Village Store)..The place didnt "feel" right for some reason..I did get half off on the GE Superradio AM/FM (The long-distance portable one)..The only thing I ever bought there..



Which chain are you talking about again? I need to get another one of those...


----------



## gforaker

Some of you guys have been complaining that TWCNEO is too slow to migrate channels from analog to digital.


It was announced today that they have been fined big time for doing just that.


tiny url dot com http://*******.com/bzcapc 
http://*******.com/bzcapc 


PHILADELPHIA (AP) The Federal Communications Commission is fining nine cable TV operators for attempting to thwart its investigation of a practice in which analog channels were transferred to a more expensive digital tier, leaving some customers without access.


In a letter to Congressional leaders Monday, on his last full day in office, FCC Chairman Kevin Martin said cable operators had exhibited "contempt" for the commission by not providing full information about their practices, as ordered.


"The cable operators' refusal to provide the commission full information has delayed our investigation and inhibited our ability to examine allegations" stemming from nearly 600 complaints, he told the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.


The cable operators receiving fines were Comcast Corp., Time Warner Cable Inc., Cox Communications Inc., Charter Communications Inc., Cablevision Systems Corp., Bright House Networks, Harron Communications LP, Midcontinent Communications Inc. and Suddenlink Communications Inc.


The fines range from $7,500 to $25,000 totaling about $500,000 and some companies also were told to issue refunds to customers within 90 days for failing to give a 30-day notice about the channel changes.


In October, the FCC asked 13 cable operators to provide more information on their practice of migrating channels to digital. The agency was concerned that customers who subscribe to less expensive tiers of analog service, such as basic cable, will have access to fewer channels because some have been moved to the digital lineup, even as those subscribers' bills continued to rise.


Cable companies want to move analog channels to digital to free up bandwidth so they have more room to add high-definition channels and other content. It is not related to the national switch to digital broadcasting....


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/15616264
> 
> 
> I've had very good service in the past at two locally owned stores here in the Cleveland area that have often been willing to match or beat prices at BB and the other big-box stores on TV's and appliances--B&B Appliance and Snow Bros. You should check out similar places in your area!



I'm wondering if there's an Akron area equivalent of B&B that has a similar reputation. I've heard good things about 'em, but I might not want to hoof it up to Middleburg Heights.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15616376
> 
> 
> This will come as a surprise. I like Circuit City much, much better then Best Buy.
> 
> 
> Probably the main reason is location, and with CC closing I will lose not only my closest Box store. Now I will have to drive at least 10 miles to get to one.



Your CC was one of those nice, fancy new ones.


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

Well I was funnin a little bit but according to my MAC friends Bootcamp might run your Vista stuff a little faster than Parallels.

JJK


----------



## JJkizak

Where can I get the free 3D glasses for viewing the 3D commercials during the Super Bowl? I don't see them in the grocery stores.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15617202
> 
> 
> Where can I get the free 3D glasses for viewing the 3D commercials during the Super Bowl? I don't see them in the grocery stores.



Which system are they using? Red/blue anaglyph, polarized, or Pulfrich (one eye darker than the other)? I have spare Pulfrich glasses but it's not likely that they're using Pulfrich this time.


**EDIT** It's the color anaglyph system, this time using blue/amber lenses. Look for the glasses in retail outlets that carry Sobe water.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15617531
> 
> 
> It's the color anaglyph system, this time using blue/amber lenses. Look for the glasses in retail outlets that carry Sobe water.



and make a stop in the aspirin section on your way out.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/15617723
> 
> 
> and make a stop in the aspirin section on your way out.



Indeed. I've never been a fan of the color anaglyph system, but it's one of the few techniques that can survive the limitations of the NTSC system. It will probably have a little more depth on an HD screen, and the effect will probably be more noticeable on LCDs and plasmas than rear-projection sets.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15617190
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> Well I was funnin a little bit but according to my MAC friends Bootcamp might run your Vista stuff a little faster than Parallels.
> 
> JJK



ROFLOL.










Thanks, but bootcamp comes with Mac. To run Windows, you gotta reboot. It doesn't work simultaneously.


There's another product out there. Perhaps that is what they were talking about, but if you seen how it works, you'd understand.


----------



## legendary1

That's probably VMWare Fusion... similar to parallels. Both good programs if you want to run your OS's simultaneously.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15616663
> 
> 
> Which chain are you talking about again? I need to get another one of those...




HH Gregg..The one I got was a couple of years ago, basically open box..Was $44.95..I got it for $21.95


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *legendary1* /forum/post/15618507
> 
> 
> That's probably VMWare Fusion... similar to parallels. Both good programs if you want to run your OS's simultaneously.



Yep, that's the stuff. Definitely not boot camp.


FWIW the way boot camp works is it takes a partition of your hard drive and runs Windows on it. The problem with that is it removes available disk space that can be used for Mac virtual memory, it also needs to be reboot to access. Parallel and VMWare Fusion do not require this. I keep mine running in cohesive mode and I actually have a Windows bar at the bottom of the computer, just above the Mac Deck. And no reboot required, it allows you to run Mac programs with your windows, i.e. I'll balance my check booth with I.E. explorer and Money, but I'll used the Adobe Reader as the source for downloading the actual statements.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15618632
> 
> 
> HH Gregg..The one I got was a couple of years ago, basically open box..Was $44.95..I got it for $21.95



Oh. So much for going out and looking for such a deal today!










I have one downstairs, but it's a bit flaky after years of use. If I had any skill doing so, I could probably clean it out and fix some of the quirks.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/15616264
> 
> 
> I've had very good service in the past at two locally owned stores here in the Cleveland area that have often been willing to match or beat prices at BB and the other big-box stores on TV's and appliances--B&B Appliance and Snow Bros. You should check out similar places in your area!
> 
> 
> BTW, I'm not a salesperson and have never worked for any appliance or big-box store. I'm just saying that sometimes there are good alternatives to buying bigbox or online.



+1 for both B&B and Snow. Such small operators can't carry the number of brands and variety like the CC's and BB's, but the sales people are much better informed at these local co's.


HH Gregg has also never carried the variety and product line depth like CC's and BB's either, which explains why the OP found only one model DTV box available.


----------



## scnrfrq

Those of you with HBO On Demand and Showtime On Demand, do you get that free if you subscribe to the regular HBO and Showtime services? In Erie County, they are trying to get us to pay extra for the On Demand service??


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15620204
> 
> 
> Those of you with HBO On Demand and Showtime On Demand, do you get that free if you subscribe to the regular HBO and Showtime services? In Erie County, they are trying to get us to pay extra for the On Demand service??



On WOW Cable the VOD's are included per subscription to each premium ch. Numerous other general VOD's are included in the digital tier pkgs. I dunno about TWC.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15620204
> 
> 
> Those of you with HBO On Demand and Showtime On Demand, do you get that free if you subscribe to the regular HBO and Showtime services? In Erie County, they are trying to get us to pay extra for the On Demand service??



On TWCNEO, yes they are free if you subscribe to the pay version of each of these. If you don't, there are other On Demand programs that are free (e.g., BBC America, A&E, Nat Geographic), and also including a small amount of HD material.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/15620224
> 
> 
> On TWCNEO, yes they are free if you subscribe to the pay version of each of these. If you don't, there are other On Demand programs that are free (e.g., BBC America, A&E, Nat Geographic), and also including a small amount of HD material.



Ok, thanks. They FINALLY did our realignment this week, and I guess they got the HBO and Showtime OD's wrong. I'll have to call them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15617190
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> Well I was funnin a little bit but according to my MAC friends Bootcamp might run your Vista stuff a little faster than Parallels.
> 
> JJK



Re Read your post. I didn't get it the first time.


I did use bootcamp originally, but I can't say as to whether or not it was faster.


The big difference is Parallel runs a *virtual* machine as opposed to bootcamp which as I mentioned earlier uses a partition of the disk drive designated for Windows and runs a real Vista.


Sorry for laughing. But rebooting anything is always slower and for two programs it just isn't worth it.


----------



## clevemkt

Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15617202
> 
> 
> Where can I get the free 3D glasses for viewing the 3D commercials during the Super Bowl? I don't see them in the grocery stores.



I got mine yesterday at the new Giant Eagle behind Parmatown (Day Drive). They had a box full of them in the beverage isle.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15625443
> 
> 
> Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?



This doesn't answer your question but I've noted that I can now receive them with a good signal on a bedroom TV's indoor antenna that couldn't lock them in before. I've always received a strong signal on the outdoor antenna.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15625443
> 
> 
> Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?



I don't have an outdoor antenna. But I was able to lock onto the signal in Akron with an indoor Silver Sensor pointed toward Salem. Before the power increase, I wasn't able to get any picture. This is quite a surprise, because I'm near the bottom of the Cuyahoga Valley and yet I still was able to get a picture.


----------



## scnrfrq

My Sony HD TV will not pick up 89.1 (our local PBS) when I scan QAM channels. I can view the channel if I enter it, but the TV won't let me add it individually. I have to scan to add any channels, and then it doesn't show 89.1. Any ideas how to get 89.1 added?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15632040
> 
> 
> I don't have an outdoor antenna. But I was able to lock onto the signal in Akron with an indoor Silver Sensor pointed toward Salem. Before the power increase, I wasn't able to get any picture. This is quite a surprise, because I'm near the bottom of the Cuyahoga Valley and yet I still was able to get a picture.



Wow! That is pretty impressive. I'll try and see if I can get a likewise performance, but being *at* the bottom of the valley, I'd guess it'd be near impossible for the signal to get to my home.


----------



## hookbill

I just ran an update scan on my one digital ota box. I picked up some new stuff, looks like some religious channel 17.1.2.3.4 and WUAB is now coming in good, but I still can't get a strong signal from WOIO or WKYC. That's using a Phillips indoor antenna with an east facing window.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15632725
> 
> 
> My Sony HD TV will not pick up 89.1 (our local PBS) when I scan QAM channels. I can view the channel if I enter it, but the TV won't let me add it individually. I have to scan to add any channels, and then it doesn't show 89.1. Any ideas how to get 89.1 added?



A couple of possibilities come to mind -


Low RF level on that frequency. The set might be having trouble locking to it. Are there any splitters you can eliminate to bring up the level?


Firmware glitches - I've heard of a "missing channels" issue with Sony. Make sure your set is running the latest version of firmware.


----------



## hookbill

I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.


That means you and I guys! I don't know about you but I don't like paying for some stupid person's procrastination.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15635501
> 
> 
> I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.
> 
> 
> That means you and I guys! I don't know about you but I don't like paying for some stupid person's procrastination.



FOX?

















When I hear it elsewhere, I'll believe it!


----------



## paule123

For those of you wondering about the weather subchannel during superbowl, this from WKYC engineering:



> Quote:
> The WeatherPlus channel will remain at it's current bandwidth during the Super Bowl broadcast. It is only using about 2 to 3 Mbits of the available 19.3 Mbits.


----------



## nickdawg

The WeatherPlus channel will remain at it's current bandwidth during the Super Bowl broadcast. It is only using about 2 to 3 Mbits of the available 19.3 Mbits.


"only" using 2 to 3 Mbits.










That, paired with NBC's generally awful HD PQ (remember the Olympics?) means I'm not expecting a good show.


And WTF? Since when did NBC get the Super Bowl? Are they trying to pretend they are a real network now?







What, is the CW going to show the Super Bowl next year?










I was really hoping this was ABC's year. ABC has the best PQ of all the local stations. CBS is worst, FOX is next with their pre-starved HD, then WKYC's NBC.


----------



## Trip in VA

NBC replaced their network distribution system back in November and many viewers in many markets reported improved PQ. It should not be like the Olympics (which were so bad I could tell it on a converter box on a 13" TV!).


- Trip


----------



## paule123

The NFL rotates the SB to their group of broadcasters. 2010 is CBS, 2011 is Fox, 2012 is NBC again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...l_broadcasters 


Personally my ratings for football on my 50" 1080p plasma are:


1 - CBS via DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket 1080i

2 - CBS

3 - NBC, NFL Network

4 - three way tie for the 720p toilet between Fox, ABC, ESPN


Sorry, that main 50 yard line long shot of a football game looks like crap in 720p (unless you have a smaller 720p TV and sit far away enough, then it's not as bad)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15636115
> 
> 
> NBC replaced their network distribution system back in November and many viewers in many markets reported improved PQ. It should not be like the Olympics (which were so bad I could tell it on a converter box on a 13" TV!).
> 
> 
> - Trip



That's good news. I remember hearing something about a new system on the Olympics threads. That's pretty bad if you can even see it on a NTSC TV. Usually "flaws" can be hidden a bit on the conversion.


But here on TWC digital cable box, many times digital SD channel 3 looked better than HD channel 403. It's weird, the network SD feed actually looked better. Even on other programming, sometimes the NBC network analog feed looks better. Plus, this is going to be the last Super Bowl with ANY separate network analog feed. NBC better get their stuff in order!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15636177
> 
> 
> The NFL rotates the SB to their group of broadcasters. 2010 is CBS, 2011 is Fox, 2012 is NBC again.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...l_broadcasters
> 
> 
> Personally my ratings for football on my 50" 1080p plasma are:
> 
> 
> 1 - CBS via DirecTV NFL Sunday Ticket 1080i
> 
> 2 - CBS
> 
> 3 - NBC, NFL Network
> 
> 4 - three way tie for the 720p toilet between Fox, ABC, ESPN
> 
> 
> Sorry, that main 50 yard line long shot of a football game looks like crap in 720p (unless you have a smaller 720p TV and sit far away enough, then it's not as bad)



I was thinking this was the ABC year. Since CBS was in 07, FOX in 08. Looks like ABC is out of it for awhile.


I've never seen D* HD, but I'd guess that would have to be better than a local affiliate, especially one with subchannels. But I have to disagree in HORROR at CBS as #2. While CBS *network* may look nice, if your source is WOIO, it is as Gordon Ramsay says, "****". I've even seen blocking and blurring on non-sports programming(like CSI Miami). And WOIO's analog upconvert programming looks bad too. It's even visible on SD channel 4 now that TWC has been using digital/HD feeds as a source for WOIO.


OTOH, I love ABC. I even found they had the best presentation on Inauguration day coverage. Plus, primetime and sports programming looks good as well.


FOX is the toilet. The line between HD and "FOX Digital Widescreen" is blurred there often.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15636201
> 
> 
> That's good news. I remember hearing something about a new system on the Olympics threads. That's pretty bad if you can even see it on a NTSC TV. Usually "flaws" can be hidden a bit on the conversion.



Yes, it was that bad. Especially the graphics, that NBC Olympics logo that'd wipe across the screen, that'd pixelate every time it ran. It was awful.


Hopefully they've fixed it now, I haven't had reason to watch any network programming on NBC since to know.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15636246
> 
> 
> I was thinking this was the ABC year. Since CBS was in 07, FOX in 08. Looks like ABC is out of it for awhile.
> 
> 
> I've never seen D* HD, but I'd guess that would have to be better than a local affiliate, especially one with subchannels. But I have to disagree in HORROR at CBS as #2. While CBS *network* may look nice, if your source is WOIO, it is as Gordon Ramsay says, "****". I've even seen blocking and blurring on non-sports programming(like CSI Miami). And WOIO's analog upconvert programming looks bad too. It's even visible on SD channel 4 now that TWC has been using digital/HD feeds as a source for WOIO.
> 
> 
> OTOH, I love ABC. I even found they had the best presentation on Inauguration day coverage. Plus, primetime and sports programming looks good as well.
> 
> 
> FOX is the toilet. The line between HD and "FOX Digital Widescreen" is blurred there often.



I'll confirm the macroblocking and pixelation you see on WOIO. I've seen it too. However compared to what it looks like on our digital WOIO it's beautiful.


nickdawg, one of the things about SA machines is they are poor at recording, something I never realized it until I got my DVR. The pixelation I see on WOIO has definitely increased but I wonder if you and I see the same amount because what I see is very quick and not that annoying.


What about your HD television. Is it 720p native? If so that could be why ABC appears so far superior to you then NBC, which is 1080i.


I still don't understand what you talk about when you mention your digital locals. I have no idea if they are truly digital or analog upgrade. To be honest with you the amount of ranting you've been doing lately has come to appoint where I'm thinking "all this guy does now is complain," and that my friend is not much fun. I can't see where you draw your lines.'


I still enjoy your posting from time to time but come on, maybe you can stop all this constant whining. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall you b##ching and moaning on every post.


And just to let you know, I wasn't clear on my source for the television transition. That was WJW Fox 8 I heard it from and I don't know if you like any of them, I believe you take shots at them all.


And in that case you may be justified.


----------



## Vchat20

On the subject of the recording quality with the SA boxes, you have to realise that the MPEG2 encoder chips in these boxes are nowhere near as high as quality as say a properly configured software encoder running non-realtime or a 4/5 figure professional live encoder at the headend or the distribution facilities of any of the big name networks. Not to mention that really none of these encoders fare well when you have tons of analog noise and interference introduced from the lengths of coax between your node and your set-top. This noise also introduces the ability for macroblocking and compression artifacts as the encoder begins to waste data on the noise rather than the actual picture.


From the way it sounds, all of you guys up in the cleveland area and the old Adelphia and Comcast systems, you still get fed analog channels on positions 2-99 and the set-top has to do all the legwork to encode that to mpeg2 and store on the drive. I honestly am not surprised if you have quality problems if you are being fed analog feeds still. Here in the legacy area, we get fed digital feeds all across the board including 2-99 and while there's the occasional MINOR artifacting, it's crystal clear. The only way I know for sure I'm watching cable is because the image processor in my tv does a lousy scaling job compared to dvd's. There's a noticable difference in the PQ after being upscaled.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15632906
> 
> 
> Wow! That is pretty impressive. I'll try and see if I can get a likewise performance, but being *at* the bottom of the valley, I'd guess it'd be near impossible for the signal to get to my home.



I'm actually up a bit from Andrew, and I haven't locked WNEO-DT yet since it went full power. I AM getting the same kind of "not quite lockable" signal out of it that I get out of WKBN-DT. The Youngstown market signals may be bouncing down to Andrew off of something.










To be fair, I really haven't tried hard to get WNEO, considering that I could get WEAO-DT with a paperclip antenna.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15633190
> 
> 
> I just ran an update scan on my one digital ota box. I picked up some new stuff, looks like some religious channel 17.1.2.3.4 and WUAB is now coming in good, but I still can't get a strong signal from WOIO or WKYC. That's using a Phillips indoor antenna with an east facing window.



I'm still having occasional WUAB problems, for whatever reason. It bounces in and out like no other local station, even with the antenna pointed in the right direction for the others.


17.1-5 is WDLI-DT Canton, a TBN (religious) station as you suspect. It was owned by Jim Bakker's PTL Club back in day, right after it threw in the towel on secular independent programming. "DLI" stands for the former primary owner after Bakker/PTL, David Livingston International (DL was another televangelist - I think TBN bought all of his stations).


Despite being licensed to Canton, WDLI's digital stick is just up the hill from Rolling Acres Mall in the Akron area. The other Canton-licensed DT, WOAC/67's digital side, is in Brimfield in Portage County, off I-76 and Rt. 43, across 43 from WNIR Radio.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15635501
> 
> 
> I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.



I'm getting too lazy to find a story I saw earlier, but it appears that is the case, and that they're going to vote next week. It sounds like one change may be made, that stations will be able to shut down analog on February 17th voluntarily.


How this all happens, in practice, remains to be seen. Will some markets "band together" and stick with the 17th? Remember, we've had one full market (Wilmington, NC) and one state (Hawaii) do it, not to mention the stations going off early analog already around here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15636246
> 
> 
> I was thinking this was the ABC year. Since CBS was in 07, FOX in 08. Looks like ABC is out of it for awhile.



IIRC, ABC is now out of the Super Bowl rotation entirely, when they moved "Monday Night Football" to ESPN. I don't think they get a "turn" even though they owned by the same company as ESPN, and donkeys and porcine creatures will soar airborne before the NFL lets the Super Bowl run on cable, even a station as widely distributed as ESPN...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15636753
> 
> 
> I'll confirm the macroblocking and pixelation you see on WOIO. I've seen it too. However compared to what it looks like on our digital WOIO it's beautiful.
> 
> 
> nickdawg, one of the things about SA machines is they are poor at recording, something I never realized it until I got my DVR. The pixelation I see on WOIO has definitely increased but I wonder if you and I see the same amount because what I see is very quick and not that annoying.
> 
> 
> What about your HD television. Is it 720p native? If so that could be why ABC appears so far superior to you then NBC, which is 1080i.
> 
> 
> I still don't understand what you talk about when you mention your digital locals. I have no idea if they are truly digital or analog upgrade. To be honest with you the amount of ranting you've been doing lately has come to appoint where I'm thinking "all this guy does now is complain," and that my friend is not much fun. I can't see where you draw your lines.'
> 
> 
> I still enjoy your posting from time to time but come on, maybe you can stop all this constant whining. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall you b##ching and moaning on every post.
> 
> 
> And just to let you know, I wasn't clear on my source for the television transition. That was WJW Fox 8 I heard it from and I don't know if you like any of them, I believe you take shots at them all.
> 
> 
> And in that case you may be justified.



It's not pointless ranting, some of the channels are really messed up. I was watching WOIO SDTV the other night(around Action news at 6/Katie Couric) and the audio was dropping out and the picture freezing. Then it went to flashing screen and plain yellow screen(never seen that before). I thought maybe it was the 4250HD box (I thought of hook and SA







). I check a TV with no box, same thing on analog. 404 WOIO HD is fine. Same with 19 through analog OTA. So whatever kind of conversion TWC is doing to make HDTV digital SD or analog, something is wrong with their encoding, which may also explain the poor PQ and the darkness of the picture. And it's only WOIO. WJW, WBNX, WNEO, WVIZ, WUAB, WDLI are all taken from digital OTA sources and they all work fine. Something's gotta be wrong between TWC's head end and our TVs.


Unless different areas of the same TWC system are compressing channels more or less, the pixelation should be the same, since it is all coming from the same source. I see the same thing, it is quick, but enough to be annoying. Although nowhere near as bad as the Olympics broadcast. Rabbit Ears is right about the Olympic logo. It was cringeworthy.


What do you mean by "digital WOIO"? SDTV? Because that channel looks far worse than WOIO HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15636889
> 
> 
> On the subject of the recording quality with the SA boxes, you have to realise that the MPEG2 encoder chips in these boxes are nowhere near as high as quality as say a properly configured software encoder running non-realtime or a 4/5 figure professional live encoder at the headend or the distribution facilities of any of the big name networks. Not to mention that really none of these encoders fare well when you have tons of analog noise and interference introduced from the lengths of coax between your node and your set-top. This noise also introduces the ability for macroblocking and compression artifacts as the encoder begins to waste data on the noise rather than the actual picture.



Excellent point!!!












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15636889
> 
> 
> From the way it sounds, all of you guys up in the cleveland area and the old Adelphia and Comcast systems, you still get fed analog channels on positions 2-99 and the set-top has to do all the legwork to encode that to mpeg2 and store on the drive. I honestly am not surprised if you have quality problems if you are being fed analog feeds still. Here in the legacy area, we get fed digital feeds all across the board including 2-99 and while there's the occasional MINOR artifacting, it's crystal clear. The only way I know for sure I'm watching cable is because the image processor in my tv does a lousy scaling job compared to dvd's. There's a noticable difference in the PQ after being upscaled.



Actually if that were true I'd probably wouldn't gripe as much. The problem is that when we were Adelphia for some reason still unknown to me they took channels WOIO, WKYC, WEWS, and WJW and converted them to digital. So what we see here is digital but not true digital like what you see. We see analog converted to digital on those stations. The rest are as you say, still analog.


At one time we could still see the analog versions of these channels on 803, 804, 805, and 808 but then they did the lineup change so that option is out.


However your post is crystal clear and I thank you for that. I never could figure out what exactly you guys had down there and I am very, very jealous! Maybe I should write Mr. Fry and yell "Foul" but then they would put you guys on analog and everyone in the legacy area would hate me!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15637493
> 
> 
> It's not pointless ranting, some of the channels are really messed up. I was watching WOIO SDTV the other night(around Action news at 6/Katie Couric) and the audio was dropping out and the picture freezing. Then it went to flashing screen and plain yellow screen(never seen that before). I thought maybe it was the 4250HD box (I thought of hook and SA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I check a TV with no box, same thing on analog. 404 WOIO HD is fine. Same with 19 through analog OTA. So whatever kind of conversion TWC is doing to make HDTV digital SD or analog, something is wrong with their encoding, which may also explain the poor PQ and the darkness of the picture. And it's only WOIO. WJW, WBNX, WNEO, WVIZ, WUAB, WDLI are all taken from digital OTA sources and they all work fine. Something's gotta be wrong between TWC's head end and our TVs.
> 
> 
> Unless different areas of the same TWC system are compressing channels more or less, the pixelation should be the same, since it is all coming from the same source. I see the same thing, it is quick, but enough to be annoying. Although nowhere near as bad as the Olympics broadcast. Rabbit Ears is right about the Olympic logo. It was cringeworthy.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "digital WOIO"? SDTV? Because that channel looks far worse than WOIO HD.



OK, not pointlesss but confusing. And as far as different pixelation, read the post from Vchat, he hits the nail on the head.


Also he clearly explained to me what you had in the legacy area. You actually had said the same thing at one time however with all the different post you've made it got murky as to what you really had in legacy land.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15635501
> 
> 
> I heard on Fox News tonight that the transfer from analog to digital now is most likely to be delayed. A bi-partisan measure has been made to delay the transfer until June. The payment for the cost to broadcasters is going to be covered by the FCC.
> 
> 
> That means you and I guys! I don't know about you but I don't like paying for some stupid person's procrastination.



Ooooooooooooh JOY.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15637433
> 
> 
> I'm still having occasional WUAB problems, for whatever reason. It bounces in and out like no other local station, even with the antenna pointed in the right direction for the others.



I find WUAB to have a very strong signal, so it could be a strong main signal and a strong multipath signal cancelling each other out. You may want to try rotating your antenna away from the tower (30-45 degrees or so) to see if the main signal locks in better.


----------



## burgher




nickdawg said:


> It's not pointless ranting, some of the channels are really messed up....... Something's gotta be wrong between TWC's head end and our TVs.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> nickdawg,
> 
> Perhaps that B&W 13" Emerson is not performing up to your specs!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (btw-you've yet to reveal to hookbill what you're viewing your OTA digital signal on) Oh yeah, and while we're at it....we're supposed to be the experts when it comes to understanding local digital broadcast signals
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so:
> 
> HD(1080i, 720p) programming is sent via a station's DIGITAL signal. It's up to your set/converter box to spit out it's native display (1080i, 720p /[16x9] or
> 
> 480p, 480i /[4x3] ). Thus, there is NO WOIO-HD. There is only WOIO-DT.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15638537
> 
> 
> I find WUAB to have a very strong signal, so it could be a strong main signal and a strong multipath signal cancelling each other out. You may want to try rotating your antenna away from the tower (30-45 degrees or so) to see if the main signal locks in better.



I only have indoor antennas, and I've moved them around six ways to Sunday. I can't find a "sweet spot" that doesn't drop out significantly with WUAB, either upstairs or downstairs.


The thing is...this has only been in the past couple of weeks or so. Until then, I got WUAB just as easily as all the other Parma antenna farm stations. It's always been one of my strongest signals. It was difficult to STOP receiving it. Until now.


Maybe this is atmospheric. Or maybe they're doing some work on or near the WUAB tower? I'd say that, but I seem to be the only one having trouble with it, and if I remember right, WUAB has no transition-related work needed. If I watched the channel for any period of time, and had no cable, I'd be upset...but for now, it's just "huh, why is it suddenly so hard to get?"


Every other local station that I normally receive is fine. I can't get WKYC or WVIZ, but neither can most people until they get that tower up.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15638205
> 
> 
> The problem is that when we were Adelphia for some reason still unknown to me they took channels WOIO, WKYC, WEWS, and WJW and converted them to digital. So what we see here is digital but not true digital like what you see. We see analog converted to digital on those stations. The rest are as you say, still analog.



That's really odd but I guess it's another case where they just haven't gotten around to updating their systems up there with more pertinent tasks on their todo list at the moment.


I honestly don't know exactly how we are receiving our locals here either but I'd assume it's either fiber fed or downconverted from the OTA DT transmitters as I haven't once seen any telltale signs of analog origin over the years.


By any chance do the duplicate channels in the 100+ area do analog too or do they do digital? Ever since they did the channel lineup redo, I believe every single one of the 2-99 channels including locals are now duplicated in the 100+ area. Here though they are simply the same QAM/PID as the 2-99 positions but I am really curious if they do those in digital in your area or if the box just grabs the analog channel on those higher positions as well?


I say give it a little time. As has been seen, TW seems to be trying to get the different headends including Comcast/Adelphia territory up to speed and matching the legacy areas in order to accomodate SDV for starters. Cross your fingers and they may have you guys switched to a 100% digital system around the time they get SDV rolling.


P.S. If I can, I'll attempt to get some clips recorded from the 8300HDC on the SD locals for comparison this evening.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643106
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know exactly how we are receiving our locals here either but I'd assume it's either fiber fed or downconverted from the OTA DT transmitters as I haven't once seen any telltale signs of analog origin over the years.



WEWS and WKYC are fiber feeds, as they are still using the analog feeds on cable. I did a comparison, the same bugs/graphics are on WEWS/WKYC OTA analog and on cable. Plus, they were immune from the DTV tests. It is obvious that WEWS is still sending an analog SD feed to TWC since a digital/HD downconversion would mean a clean screen on ABC programming(since ABC does not put ads/crap on their HD network feed). Also, it is easy to tell that WKYC is still sending an analog feed to TWC since NBC programming is still shown in letterbox. If it were taken from the digital feed, all programming would be 4:3 on the SD channel(which is why every station's bug has migrated towards the 'middle' of the screen).


WJW is taken from the DT OTA feed. On FOX programming, the "FOX" bug is missing, since FOX does not put a network bug on any network programming on the digital feed. Only the analog, which you can still see on OTA analog. Plus, on shows like "House", you can see part of that "FOX HD" bug that appears after commercial breaks. Except on a CRT you only see the "FO" part of it. I like it because I record the cartoons on WJW SDTV and now I get a 100% bug free picture.


WOIO is easy to tell that a digital OTA feed is being used, since WOIO HD Does not have the time/temperature bug over the "19 Action News" bug. The time is only seen on the analog channel. If you're not seeing the time over the 19 news bug, then TWC is using digital OTA.


WUAB is also a digital OTA capture. On "Two and a Half Men" you can see the vertical blanking lines on the top of the screen on WUAB HD. If you look closely on channel 6, on a TV that doesn't have much overscan, you can also see the the white flickering. It is not present on the analog version of the channel.


WBNX is obvious, the picture has drastically improved. Before, you could tell it was a very bad analog OTA source, since there was ghosting and lines in the picture.


WNEO, since channel 49 OTA shows 16:9 programming letterbox. On WNEO HD, letterbox programming is "Expanded" to almost fit the screen and you can see the same skinny black bars at the top/bottom on WNEO SD on TWC.





> Quote:
> By any chance do the duplicate channels in the 100+ area do analog too or do they do digital? Ever since they did the channel lineup redo, I believe every single one of the 2-99 channels including locals are now duplicated in the 100+ area. Here though they are simply the same QAM/PID as the 2-99 positions but I am really curious if they do those in digital in your area or if the box just grabs the analog channel on those higher positions as well?



I assume it is done the same way. If TWC had these channels available in Digital, they would be used on the under 100 positions as well. But if they are only available in analog, then the analog channels are mapped to the over 100 locations.



> Quote:
> I say give it a little time. As has been seen, TW seems to be trying to get the different headends including Comcast/Adelphia territory up to speed and matching the legacy areas in order to accomodate SDV for starters. Cross your fingers and they may have you guys switched to a 100% digital system around the time they get SDV rolling.
> 
> 
> P.S. If I can, I'll attempt to get some clips recorded from the 8300HDC on the SD locals for comparison this evening.



My guess is that making the analog channels digital is at the bottom of the priority list. Right now, their main concern is SDV. Digital versions of the under 100 channels are not necessary for SDV, since everything converted to SDV already exists in digital.


And good news about SDV, there are even more SDV channels enabled here. I saw a message about a "free preview" of the NBA subscription channels this week. So as I was checking those out, I decided to look at the diagnostics screen and almost all of the NBA pay channels are SDV. Also, all of the NHL channels and all of the ESPN PPV channels in the 700s are SDV. This is great news, since TWC must be serious about SDV to make the over $100 sports pay channels SDV. Sure, they are less watched channels, but TWC would be hearing alot of screaming from subscribers if these channels did not work. I'll start working on another "list" of deployed SDV channels. The shopping channels in the 180s are also SDV.


It is inexcusable that we are not seeing new HD channels yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643106
> 
> 
> That's really odd but I guess it's another case where they just haven't gotten around to updating their systems up there with more pertinent tasks on their todo list at the moment.



At the time WBNX was not digital, nor was it in HD so Adelphia did not include them on the "converted digital" upgrade. Just thought I would mention that, because when TW did include WBNX on their HD list they never offered the digital version (wisely, I might add) of that channel.


I'm quite sure of what I speak as far as the transmission of these channels to us. How TW get's their broadcast, I have no idea. Most people seem to be very confident it comes in through a direct feed of some sort.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643106
> 
> 
> By any chance do the duplicate channels in the 100+ area do analog too or do they do digital? Ever since they did the channel lineup redo, I believe every single one of the 2-99 channels including locals are now duplicated in the 100+ area. Here though they are simply the same QAM/PID as the 2-99 positions but I am really curious if they do those in digital in your area or if the box just grabs the analog channel on those higher positions as well?



As nickdawg stated in the post above and I can confirm, they are mirror transmissions of the analog feed. No channel in the analog line up is digitally simulcast except the channels I mentioned in my previous post, and that wouldn't be a simulcast any longer.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643106
> 
> 
> I say give it a little time. As has been seen, TW seems to be trying to get the different headends including Comcast/Adelphia territory up to speed and matching the legacy areas in order to accomodate SDV for starters. Cross your fingers and they may have you guys switched to a 100% digital system around the time they get SDV rolling.



As much as I would like to see that, I'm skeptical. Let's face it, the original TW area is much smaller then the old Adelphia plus Comcast area. And I don't have any idea what the ex Comcast people are getting (except perhaps the shaft







)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643106
> 
> 
> P.S. If I can, I'll attempt to get some clips recorded from the 8300HDC on the SD locals for comparison this evening.



It's odd that nickdawg complains so much about WOIO SD in digital. I see it as a horrible channel to watch via analog, which is why I always thought he had it wrong. He has told us in the past however that he get's a Dolby 2.0 signal so it has to be digital or else he would get what I see which is PCM 48 on my sound system.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15643369
> 
> 
> It is obvious that WEWS is still sending an analog SD feed to TWC since a digital/HD downconversion would mean a clean screen on ABC programming(since ABC does not put ads/crap on their HD network feed). Also, it is easy to tell that WKYC is still sending an analog feed to TWC since NBC programming is still shown in letterbox. If it were taken from the digital feed, all programming would be 4:3 on the SD channel(which is why every station's bug has migrated towards the 'middle' of the screen).



Honestly this all means nothing to the subject at hand. First off, there's nothing to say whether cable or sat providers MUST distribute either letterboxed or centercut programming in SD lineups regardless of the moved station bugs. And like has been stated, we really have no idea how the channel feeds are getting to TW. Could either be the OTA DT broadcasts and TW is choosing whether to centercut or letterbox them, could be fiber fed and the stations are sending out separate HD and SD feeds tailored for distribution, who knows.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15643667
> 
> 
> As much as I would like to see that, I'm skeptical. Let's face it, the original TW area is much smaller then the old Adelphia plus Comcast area. And I don't have any idea what the ex Comcast people are getting (except perhaps the shaft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Thinking about it from all angles, it'd be pretty backwards thinking and stupid to continue to keep you guys behind the curve for all eternity when they're eventually at some point going to go 100% digital, are pushing digital services constantly, and the rest of their NEO footprint has had this perfected 100% digital (on the set-tops anyways) system going for a number of years now. We all know TWCNEO is pretty lackluster these days, but I doubt they're stupid.


Anyways, got some screencaps and a video up here:

 

WFMJ

 

WOIO

 

WEWS

 

WKBN

 

WYTV

 

WYFX


(Video currently uploading)


On an additional note here: During the process of getting these screencaps, the box has been hooked up through probably the worst wiring job ever consisting of probably 4 cascaded splitters and some old RG59 in spots. It's bad enough that the connection directly to my analog tv tuner in the PC here has a ****-ton of noise and channels 2-13 are the worst out of all of them to the point of even being noticable on my SD CRT TV which does a good job of hiding the noise on other channels.


Some of the channels wouldn't even come in in this setup including WKYC (ch3-cable) and most of the basic non-locals. All of which indicates it is coming in digitally since at least with analog I would be getting a picture, but the noise would be horrendous.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643902
> 
> 
> Honestly this all means nothing to the subject at hand. First off, there's nothing to say whether cable or sat providers MUST distribute either letterboxed or centercut programming in SD lineups regardless of the moved station bugs. And like has been stated, we really have no idea how the channel feeds are getting to TW. Could either be the OTA DT broadcasts and TW is choosing whether to centercut or letterbox them, could be fiber fed and the stations are sending out separate HD and SD feeds tailored for distribution, who knows.



Yes it does. If a cable/satellite provider is passing a downconversion of a HDTV source, it would be shown in 4:3. That screencap of WFMJ was letterbox and so is WKYC. So obviously TWC is being fed a separate SD and HD feed from the source. With both WEWS and WKYC, the feed on TWC stayed EXACTLY the same on the DTV test day. The only difference was that through OTA the DTV test message was visible. Once the DTV test ended, WKYC and WEWS remained on the air through TWC uninterrupted. There was even a special informational crawl about the DTV transition running on WKYC SD only. It was on OTA and through TWC. It was not on HD.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15643965
> 
> 
> Yes it does. If a cable/satellite provider is passing a downconversion of a HDTV source, it would be shown in 4:3. That screencap of WFMJ was letterbox and so is WKYC. So obviously TWC is being fed a separate SD and HD feed from the source. With both WEWS and WKYC, the feed on TWC stayed EXACTLY the same on the DTV test day. The only difference was that through OTA the DTV test message was visible. Once the DTV test ended, WKYC and WEWS remained on the air through TWC uninterrupted. There was even a special informational crawl about the DTV transition running on WKYC SD only. It was on OTA and through TWC. It was not on HD.



Well, yeah. THAT bit is obvious. But from all the complaining and bickering going on, it's sounded like you guys were just getting the worst end of the deal and having the Analog OTA stuff fed to your headends and either distributed directly to you or encoded to mpeg2 THEN distributed (the latter is obviously not the case currently.)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15643982
> 
> 
> Well, yeah. THAT bit is obvious. But from all the complaining and bickering going on, it's sounded like you guys were just getting the worst end of the deal and having the Analog OTA stuff fed to your headends and either distributed directly to you or encoded to mpeg2 THEN distributed.



We are getting analog fed to the head end on WKYC and WEWS. You can tell just by watching that the PQ on WKYC is significantly less than on WJW. On WKYC, if you're watching "3" on a HDTV, you can notice that the letterbox bars on NBC programming appears to be a whitish/gray color, unlike the black bars on the left and right of the screen. Also, WEWS is victim to the same thing(where dark scenes look hazy and dirty gray). I have no doubt it has something to do with the fact that changing an analog source to digital somehow messes with the picture. I'm watching WJW SDTV right now and it is absolutely beautiful. I chose SD over HD, since the stupid affiliate bug(in the lower right corner) is entirely cut off the screen. A "flip back and forth" comparison shows that the PQ is about the same, both are very clear and colors look "right", especially on the news at 10.


However, with WKYC/WEWS, there is a night and day difference between 5 and 405, even on SD programming. Shows like "Wife Swap" and "Jimmy Kimmel" that are SD only look better on WEWHD than on WEWS standard definition.


----------



## nickdawg

Aside from TWC discussion, I made another nice discovery today. It appears that WVIZ has the ability to record/timeshift HDTV programming in HD resolutions. I recorded this week's episode of "Nature" today. On WVIZ at 8:30 AM, it was in 16:9 HDTV. At 4:00 PM on WNEO it was SDTV letterbox, expanded to almost fill the 16:9 screen. Plus it looked awful(as any stretched/zoomed program looks).


----------



## nickdawg

Attached is a list of the current channels. There are about forty live channels and almost twenty "test channels".

 

NE OHIO LIVE SDV CHANNELS 1-09.txt 0.744140625k . file


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15644243
> 
> 
> Attached is a list of the current channels. There are about forty live channels and almost twenty "test channels".



When you talk about 40 channels, that sounds impressive but what you have to keep in mind is these are all digital channels. Now if you have 40 analog channels, hey, that's saving bandwith.


40 digital channels really isn't that much, and it certainly doesn't mean, and not that you said this, it will be replaced by 40 HD channels.


Guys, I'm telling you that your neighbors to the North are holding you back. Had TWC not acquired Adelphia and Comcast you probably would have that big HD line up. But the reality is until we all get on one page, all this testing and what you see is just speculation. Exciting, for sure, but no one knows where exactly this is going. We do know that eventually we will all have SDV and we do now know it isn't going to be legacy area first.


I think the point when we can really start to get excited is if you see they are testing some new HD channels. Then we will know it's close.


I'm still saying fall this year. I'm willing to put 100.00 virtual bucks on this. Any takers?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15644323
> 
> 
> I'm still saying fall this year. I'm willing to put 100.00 virtual bucks on this. Any takers?



NO! March it is. Maybe new HD channels in April.
























You're missing the big picture. Since November(when SDV first was activated here), this is what has happened. In the article, Jasso said they are working on upgrading other areas. My guess is that this will be coming to an area near you soon. I assume they are working behind the scenes right now.


And for the record, I think the direction TWC is taking is total BULL F**KING S**T.



































Now that I've got that off my chest, what pisses me off is that if they can pass this crap through in SDV, that means that the bandwidth is open and endless. If you can put MUN2 through in SDV, you can put USA HD through in SDV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15644368
> 
> 
> NO! March it is. Maybe new HD channels in April.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're missing the big picture. Since November(when SDV first was activated here), this is what has happened. In the article, Jasso said they are working on upgrading other areas. My guess is that this will be coming to an area near you soon. I assume they are working behind the scenes right now.



nickdawg, it will not happen in March. Now I'm not going to jump on Jasso, call him a liar or anything like that, I believe his intentions are good. He threw something out there, but realistically I don't see how they are going to do it by March.


So we're on for the 100.00 virtual bet?







If at anytime in March activation SDV goes on everywhere, because that's what Mr. Jasso said, I will humbly come in here and say "nickdawg is smart. I am dumb. I now pay him 100.00 virtual. I should never doubt nickdawg."


Now if it happens between now and Sept. 21, neither of us wins. If it happens during the fall, before 12/22 I win.


And if doesn't happen by then, we all lose!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15644668
> 
> 
> Now if it happens between now and Sept. 21, neither of us wins. If it happens during the fall, before 12/22 I win.
> 
> 
> And if doesn't happen by then, we all lose!



Correction: if it doesn't happen before Sept. 21, WE ALL LOSE!!


Actually, we all lose if it doesn't happen by March or April.


Oh what the hell, we've already lost a LONG time ago. We're the biggest losers of all. WE suck. We never even had a chance to begin with.


To keep things true to the stinking hellhole known as Cleveland *who is also responsible for this cable mess now*.

THERE'S ALWAYS NEXT YEAR!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15644746
> 
> 
> to keep things true to the stinking hellhole known as cleveland *who is also responsible for this cable mess now*.
> 
> there's always next year!! :d:d



roflmao













































I tried using the big grin but it didn't work!


FWIW SDV is showing a big ZERO over here on diagnostic screen. So if they are working in the background they are way, way behind.


----------



## toby10

The Miami Herold International Edition:


- Probably postpone shutoff to June 12, 2009

- Stations can voluntarily shut off analog anytime on/after Feb 17


Interesting article about the problems of delaying for broadcasters. Like ch X waiting for ch Y to move to ch Z so ch X can take over the slot of ch Y, etc.. An ABC affiliate in VA said some transmitters can take $20,000 per month in electricity to run. WOW! I had no idea it would take that much juice.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15645253
> 
> 
> The Miami Herold International Edition:
> 
> 
> - Probably postpone shutoff to June 12, 2009
> 
> - Stations can voluntarily shut off analog anytime on/after Feb 17
> 
> 
> Interesting article about the problems of delaying for broadcasters. Like ch X waiting for ch Y to move to ch Z so ch X can take over the slot of ch Y, etc.. An ABC affiliate in VA said some transmitters can take $20,000 per month in electricity to run. WOW! I had no idea it would take that much juice.



Thank you. Where the heck is the link?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15645263
> 
> 
> Thank you. Where the heck is the link?



Hey hook.










I'd guess they have a web presence, but I honestly don't know. Try the regular Miami Herald site, it was in yesterdays (saturday) international issue. The International Edition is usually stripped out and stripped down articles from the main paper then regionalized for the distribution area. We are always in the Caribbean for most of January and print media is quite limited, mostly just local papers. The local papers are much more entertaining to read, but void of any *real* news.










EDIT: here is the link: http://www.miamiherald.com/business/...ry/869740.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15645412
> 
> 
> Hey hook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd guess they have a web presence, but I honestly don't know. Try the regular Miami Herald site, it was in yesterdays (saturday) international issue. The International Edition is usually stripped out and stripped down articles from the main paper then regionalized for the distribution area. We are always in the Caribbean for most of January and print media is quite limited, mostly just local papers. The local papers are much more entertaining to read, but void of any *real* news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: here is the link: http://www.miamiherald.com/business/...ry/869740.html



There you go. Good toby10. Now whenever nickdawg gets up and reads this the cursing and swearing will begin!!!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15645450
> 
> 
> There you go. Good toby10. Now whenever nickdawg gets up and reads this the cursing and swearing will begin!!!!



HA!


----------



## hookbill

I found this article from the Associated Press about the possible delay. I noticed it did not mention how it would be paid for, and it did mention that stations would have the right to go digital earlier then the June date if they so choose.


----------



## Inundated

Isn't 45/49 in the process of adding HDTV record equipment?


And I believe Mr. Jasso estimated a mid-March-ish date for the SDV work to be done, not necessarily for the new HD channels (though I presume that'd come fairly quickly after SDV was in place).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15646699
> 
> 
> Isn't 45/49 in the process of adding HDTV record equipment?
> 
> 
> And I believe Mr. Jasso estimated a mid-March-ish date for the SDV work to be done, not necessarily for the new HD channels (though I *presume* that'd come fairly quickly after SDV was in place).



Clever. Notice how Inundated avoided the word *assume*?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15647086
> 
> 
> Clever. Notice how Inundated avoided the word *assume*?



It likely depends on what else is in the hopper after SDV frees up the bandwidth. And will they implement SDV on SARA on the old Adelphia system, or will they convert to Navigator? And does SARA support "StartOver"? And what other uses would they have for the freed up bandwidth?


All questions I don't know. My PRESUMPTION is that HD channels are high on the list, but Mr. Jasso didn't give that tentative "mid-March" time frame for HD channel additions, only for the SDV work that would pave the way for the upgrade.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15645253
> 
> 
> The Miami Herold International Edition:
> 
> 
> - Probably postpone shutoff to June 12, 2009
> 
> - Stations can voluntarily shut off analog anytime on/after Feb 17
> 
> 
> Interesting article about the problems of delaying for broadcasters. Like ch X waiting for ch Y to move to ch Z so ch X can take over the slot of ch Y, etc.. An ABC affiliate in VA said some transmitters can take $20,000 per month in electricity to run. WOW! I had no idea it would take that much juice.



Sorry, but I'm gonna have to call a big BULL on that one!! A bill about this already came up about a week ago. Either the House or Senate shot it down. If they shot it down once, I get the feeling it will happen again. Even the government is not this F**KING STUPID!! To move the date when we're 25 days away from it?


Also, there is not enough support for moving it. Broadcast TV stations do not want it moved. Even the NAB doesn't want it moved. IF they did, it would have been moved by now. The networks are not pushing for it to be moved either. The only people who care are little, nothing BS groups. The bill might come up again, and it will probably be shot down again. Nothing short of a Presidential order will change this, and that's unlikely. With all the trouble he faces now, TV is the last thing on anyone's mind.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15648604
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I'm gonna have to call a big BULL on that one!! A bill about this already came up about a week ago. Either the House or Senate shot it down. If they shot it down once, I get the feeling it will happen again. Even the government is not this F**KING STUPID!! To move the date when we're 25 days away from it?
> 
> 
> Also, there is not enough support for moving it. Broadcast TV stations do not want it moved. Even the NAB doesn't want it moved. IF they did, it would have been moved by now. The networks are not pushing for it to be moved either. The only people who care are little, nothing BS groups. The bill might come up again, and it will probably be shot down again. Nothing short of a Presidential order will change this, and that's unlikely. With all the trouble he faces now, TV is the last thing on anyone's mind.



Completely agree with you. I'm just telling you what was in the article.









The article claims they are voting on it this coming week. Perhaps a BO push?










As I said, print media is few and far between down here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15648163
> 
> 
> It likely depends on what else is in the hopper after SDV frees up the bandwidth. And will they implement SDV on SARA on the old Adelphia system, or will they convert to Navigator? And does SARA support "StartOver"? And what other uses would they have for the freed up bandwidth?
> 
> 
> All questions I don't know. My PRESUMPTION is that HD channels are high on the list, but Mr. Jasso didn't give that tentative "mid-March" time frame for HD channel additions, only for the SDV work that would pave the way for the upgrade.



If they're adding "Start Over", then they will have to add Navigator in all the areas without it. Now the fact that SARA is SDV compliant opens a new can of worms. Since Passport wasn't SDV capable, they had to roll out Navigator on the entire Passport system *before* they could begin work on SDV. The Navigator change here took from the end of March to the beginning of May(when my SA 8300HD was finally hit





















).


But since SDV works with SARA, they can probably get SDV going and even add new channels, then start rolling out Navigator and Start Over area by area. The reason why I say this can be done is Jasso said nothing about Navigator in the original article. If they needed to roll out Navigator first, it would take longer than March and honestly, I don't think even TWC wants to wait on this. They have to be getting their asses kicked big time because of the lack of HD channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15648604
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I'm gonna have to call a big BULL on that one!! A bill about this already came up about a week ago. Either the House or Senate shot it down. If they shot it down once, I get the feeling it will happen again. Even the government is not this F**KING STUPID!! To move the date when we're 25 days away from it?
> 
> 
> Also, there is not enough support for moving it. Broadcast TV stations do not want it moved. Even the NAB doesn't want it moved. IF they did, it would have been moved by now. The networks are not pushing for it to be moved either. The only people who care are little, nothing BS groups. The bill might come up again, and it will probably be shot down again. Nothing short of a Presidential order will change this, and that's unlikely. With all the trouble he faces now, TV is the last thing on anyone's mind.



Is the AP article I gave a link to bull as well?


Believe it, it's going to happen and you and I are paying for it. Look at the article in my previous post: It says that the delay will allow broadcasters to go ahead if they want to and transmit digital only.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15648803
> 
> 
> Is the AP article I gave a link to bull as well?
> 
> 
> Believe it, it's going to happen and you and I are paying for it. Look at the article in my previous post: It says that the delay will allow broadcasters to go ahead if they want to and transmit digital only.



If by some freak of nature this horse dung happens, I'd expect to see almost every station in Cleveland(and everywhere else for that matter) go dark on 2/17/09. I don't think there are many takers to stay on longer than that. Even WKYC's Directors Cut blog said they are opposed to staying on until June.


Maybe only WOIO would stay on, since they cater to the *cough cough demographic that would be affected the most by the DTV transition.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15648803
> 
> 
> Is the AP article I gave a link to bull as well?
> 
> 
> Believe it, it's going to happen and you and I are paying for it. Look at the article in my previous post: It says that the delay will allow broadcasters to go ahead if they want to and transmit digital only.



Honestly, a staggered transition is probably best as it isn't an all or nothing deal. Once stations start disappearing, people will start asking questions and acting on the digital transition.


That said, will this delay WKYC's move to 17? And why in the bloody heck is WJW moving onto the VHF part of the spectrum?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15652966
> 
> 
> Honestly, a staggered transition is probably best as it isn't an all or nothing deal. Once stations start disappearing, people will start asking questions and acting on the digital transition.
> 
> 
> That said, will this delay WKYC's move to 17? And why in the bloody heck is WJW moving onto the VHF part of the spectrum?



WJW is moving so they can keep their channel 8 position.


Ultimately it won't be you, me, or the broadcasters who decide who will broadcast and who won't broadcast analog. It will be the people who pay, the advertisers.


As usual, it boils down to dollars and cents. If the figures in the Cleveland area are true and something like a 1/3 of the people are not prepared for the transition then you can bet that they will tell the broadcasters they will pull their money if they shut down. And since the broadcasters, according to the way I understand this bill is written, would be reimbursed by the FCC then it makes sense that they will not convert. They will lose revenue if they do. And making money is the name of the game.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15653579
> 
> 
> As usual, it boils down to dollars and cents. If the figures in the Cleveland area are true and something like a 1/3 of the people are not prepared for the transition then you can bet that they will tell the broadcasters they will pull their money if they shut down. And since the broadcasters, according to the way I understand this bill is written, would be reimbursed by the FCC then it makes sense that they will not convert. They will lose revenue if they do. And making money is the name of the game.



You're making a lot of assumptions there. For one, I haven't yet seen that "something like a 1/3 of the people" in this market aren't prepared. The most recent figure I saw was something like just under 6 percent, around the national average. (5.9 percent in Cleveland/Akron/Canton, if I remember right.)


Ah, here we go, thanks to Mr. Macek over at 3 ...



> Quote:
> More than 6.5 million U.S. households -- or 5.7 percent of all homes -- are not ready for the upcoming transition to all-digital broadcasting and would be unable to receive any television programming at all if the transition occurred today, the Nielsen Company reported Thursday.
> 
> 
> That translates into 5.7 percent of all U.S. households. In the Cleveland-Akron-Canton area in Ohio, Nielsen says 5.91 percent of households are not ready.



The "they'll tell broadcasters they will pull their money" line is basically a fantasy scenario you are creating in your own mind. Advertisers are already pulling money, because of the down economy. This probably isn't even on their radar.


What COULD happen - if there's a demonstrated significant loss of viewers post-transition, the stations may have to charge less (less reach). But they're doing so already, trying to keep advertisers (that haven't gone out of business!) aboard.


And if we make what I believe is a reasonable assumption: that of the around 6 percent not ready, a large chunk are viewers that are not desirable for advertisers, anyway...the poor, the elderly, and other groups that aren't really targeted by advertisers...then that drops that factor down a few notches.


The kids and young adults? The digital transition won't be a big deal. Those who are still watching over air are doing it digitally, and the rest are on cable/satellite. Many of 'em are watching online, via Hulu, the networks' sites and the like. Or, via iTunes or downloading from not-so-legal sites online for free.


THIS is a MUCH bigger problem than whether 6 percent of over-air viewers just can't figure out this digital thing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15654148
> 
> 
> You're making a lot of assumptions there. For one, I haven't yet seen that "something like a 1/3 of the people" in this market aren't prepared. The most recent figure I saw was something like just under 6 percent, around the national average. (5.9 percent in Cleveland/Akron/Canton, if I remember right.)
> 
> 
> Ah, here we go, thanks to Mr. Macek over at 3 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "they'll tell broadcasters they will pull their money" line is basically a fantasy scenario you are creating in your own mind. Advertisers are already pulling money, because of the down economy. This probably isn't even on their radar.
> 
> 
> What COULD happen - if there's a demonstrated significant loss of viewers post-transition, the stations may have to charge less (less reach). But they're doing so already, trying to keep advertisers (that haven't gone out of business!) aboard.
> 
> 
> And if we make what I believe is a reasonable assumption: that of the around 6 percent not ready, a large chunk are viewers that are not desirable for advertisers, anyway...the poor, the elderly, and other groups that aren't really targeted by advertisers...then that drops that factor down a few notches.
> 
> 
> The kids and young adults? The digital transition won't be a big deal. Those who are still watching over air are doing it digitally, and the rest are on cable/satellite. Many of 'em are watching online, via Hulu, the networks' sites and the like. Or, via iTunes or downloading from not-so-legal sites online for free.
> 
> 
> THIS is a MUCH bigger problem than whether 6 percent of over-air viewers just can't figure out this digital thing.



Hardly a fantasy, and quite frankly Inundated I'm a bit insulted by your post.


I might be mistaken, what I thought I heard was what I said. Now if I'm mistaken and apparently I am I apologize.


I'm not hoping that analog sticks around, I want it to go away as well. But advertisers do very well dictate what a broadcaster does or does not do. Think of the politically incorrect situations that have happened in the past. Now this is not a politically correct issue, nor is it even to the degree I thought it was so more then likely you're correct in this circumstance nothing will happen. The notion that I'm "fantasizing" all this however is simply not so.


We will see shortly, won't we?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15654148
> 
> 
> The "they'll tell broadcasters they will pull their money" line is basically a fantasy scenario you are creating in your own mind. Advertisers are already pulling money, because of the down economy. This probably isn't even on their radar.
> 
> 
> What COULD happen - if there's a demonstrated significant loss of viewers post-transition, the stations may have to charge less (less reach). But they're doing so already, trying to keep advertisers (that haven't gone out of business!) aboard.
> 
> 
> And if we make what I believe is a reasonable assumption: that of the around 6 percent not ready, a large chunk are viewers that are not desirable for advertisers, anyway...the poor, the elderly, and other groups that aren't really targeted by advertisers...then that drops that factor down a few notches.



I'll second that it is a fantasy. The advertisers do not care. The advertisers haven't said a word about DTV either way. What is known is that the NAB is not in favor of delaying the date. Also, one Cleveland TV station (WKYC) has said they are opposed to delaying the date. I'm sure the others have similar feelings(especially the ones who have been broadcasting two channels for almost ten years).


The NAB doesn't support this, the broadcasters themselves do not support it. That is why I am doubtful that the date will even change. The only people who support it are bottom feeding lobbyists who swayed congress to bring it to a vote, which failed once.


DTV is coming, whether you like it or not. And if it is only 5%, then f**k 'em!! No way in HELL should we delay this for 5% of people who are MORONS and are not ready.


Delaying this is the WORST possible move, because nothing will be fixed by delay. The same idiots who are not ready now will not be ready then. If people think they can wait until the 16th to get ready for DTV, they'll then be thinking they can wait until June 10th.


If you think the advertisers care about these people, you're wrong. If this 5% is so oblivious to the 1,000,000 commercials + news stories + banners/crawls on screen + half hour specials dedicated to this transition, do you really think they are paying attention to the other ads on TV? Or the shows? Nope. They're just a lost cause...and proof that Darwin was right!!


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15654839
> 
> 
> I'll second that it is a fantasy. The advertisers do not care. The advertisers haven't said a word about DTV either way.



I'll third that. In fact I was reading something a couple of weeks back about some VP at Didney saying that only about 1/3 of the commercials that have been submitted have been in HD. So it would appear that the advertsing community will start coming over to HD in their good sweet time.


I think the 6% number high anyway but I have'nt been able to find what Neilsen based that number on


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15654839
> 
> 
> 
> If you think the advertisers care about these people, you're wrong. If this 5% is so oblivious to the 1,000,000 commercials + news stories + banners/crawls on screen + half hour specials dedicated to this transition, do you really think they are paying attention to the other ads on TV? Or the shows? Nope. They're just a lost cause...and proof that Darwin was right!!



Let me be clear: I don't think advertisers give a squat about people. I do think they care about whether or not their advertising is effective.


You guys are making it seem like I'm champion the cause to delay digital. I'm not, I want it to go through just as you do. I'm just looking at it from another angle, that's all.


Do I think it will get delayed? Oh, hell yes! Government always screws up a good thing.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> WUAB is also a digital OTA capture. On "Two and a Half Men" you can see the vertical blanking lines on the top of the screen on WUAB HD. If you look closely on channel 6, on a TV that doesn't have much overscan, you can also see the the white flickering. It is not present on the analog version of the channel.



I see VBI lines on virtually all the local stations watching OTA whenever there is SD 4 X 3 content. There are exceptions: WKBN-DT during the newscasts do not display the VBI lines. This is using the OTA tuner on a Dish Network ViP 622, S-video output to a 27" Trinitron. I even see small amounts of VBI lines on the top left hand side of "16 X 9 SD" that FOX 8 uses for some shots during the newscasts. I may not have a true HDTV but I can still tell the difference between true HD and SD (the SD is not as sharp as the HD even after downconverting).


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15625443
> 
> 
> Anybody with a steerable antenna able to pick up WNEO-DT in Salem now at higher power?



I tried scanning ch 45 last night and got a lock using an indoor Silver Sensor from Parma! Now if only WFMJ & WYTV would get on taller towers I'd have a complete set of alternitive network affilliate stations for the times whent he Cleveland locals decide to dump their network prime time schedule for Matlock










WOW, WNEO's coverage map is almost as good as WKBN's: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1274459.html


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15654366
> 
> 
> Hardly a fantasy, and quite frankly Inundated I'm a bit insulted by your post.
> 
> 
> I might be mistaken, what I thought I heard was what I said. Now if I'm mistaken and apparently I am I apologize.



OK, I was a bit strong coming back to you on that, and I apologize.


My "fantasy" assessment is based on what we all do here all the time...including myself. We speculate, with very little factual information, based on what we believe to be an accurate assumption. (i.e. "advertisers will not want to lose viewers, so they'll pull ads, makes sense to me")


I haven't read of any major advertiser, ad buyer or anyone in the ad community that appears the least bit concerned about the DTV transition. I can't see it's on their radar. If there are trade articles or other reports saying so, I'd love to hear about them...I just haven't seen 'em myself.


Now, let's go back in the other direction, and meet you closer to your original "1/3 aren't ready" statement.


The Nielsen report estimating just under 6 percent not ready? That means people who are not ready in any shape or form - at the transition date, if they haven't done anything, they get nothing on their analog TVs. No converter box. No digital tuner. (A windfall for LPTVers like 29/35/52?







)


I'm willing to submit that the "OTA viewers who could have problems, even if they have a digital box or tuner" figure could be closer to your original figure, though I think over 30 percent is still high.


These people could lose one or more channels (keeping others) due to signal/antenna issues, or lose more if they're in a fringe reception area... the edges of the market we've talked about here before.


But I still think that's a lower number than one third.


We're walking into uncharted territory here, be it in February or June.


And apologies again. This trying to reconstruct private discussions based on our own assumptions thing...well, I do it here, too. None of us is immune.


----------



## Inundated

Trip was right..."This TV" is coming to WUAB/43:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...Clears_60_.php 



> Quote:
> With certain stations from Tribune, Raycom and Sunbeam signing up to air This TV, the digital entertainment channel has raised its clearance level to over 60% of the country. The new additions include Tribune’s KTLA Los Angeles, WPHL Philadelphia, WDCW Washington, WTIC and WTXX Hartford and WGNO/WNOL New Orleans; Sunbeam’s WHDH Boston; and 15 Raycom outlets, including *WUAB Cleveland* and WMC Memphis.


----------



## hookbill

I had no idea how badly this idea of changing the deadline would affect everyone else. In an attempt to find more news on this issue I discovered that wireless companies are going to be affected. Primarily it will be AT&T, Verizon and Quaalcom (sp?). Also PBS is claiming it will take a beating to the tune of 22 million.


Quaalcom is firmly against the delay as they had a green light to start a major project, AT&T and Verizon are OK with it, grudgingly.


In addition to costing companies money, the delay would also stall plans from emergency departments to use those airwaves.


My question is: What the heck would phone companies be doing with analog airways? Isn't everything digital?


----------



## paule123

WEAO 49 on DirecTV is now showing an SD center cut of the 16:9 HD signal on 49-1. So the graphics and stuff on the left and right side are getting cut off. Grrrr.... Previously DirecTV was picking up 49-2 and the HD content was properly letterboxed in the 4:3 SD window.


This is probably my fault - The other day I complained to both DirecTV and WEAO about DirecTV picking up the SD subchannel 49-2 instead of the HD subchannel 49-1, and apparently this is how they "fixed" it. WEAO is saying that DirecTV needs to launch a new satellite in 2010 before D* can carry the HD signal. Very odd considering we have no problem with WVIZ in HD. Aaaargh.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15658684
> 
> 
> My question is: What the heck would phone companies be doing with analog airways? Isn't everything digital?



They'll be using those frequencies for new, advanced digital services such as higher bandwidth service for mobile devices. There's nothing to prevent them from using a frequency that was formerly occupied by an analog carrier with a new digital carrier.


----------



## JJkizak

OTA 49.1 seems to be altenating full 16 x 9 with something like 15 x 8. OTA 25.1 is broadcasting alternate sound on alternate #1 then sometimes alternate #2. It shows up on my display and 25.1 is the only channel doing this. The problem is my TV defaults to alternate sound #1 and if they are transmitting on alternate #2 I get no sound unless I manually change the menu to alternate #2. I think this is caused by global warming and the huge black hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. (magnetic influxation of the reverse flow carrier traveling through a Boise-Einstein Concentrate)

JJK


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15658643
> 
> 
> Trip was right..."This TV" is coming to WUAB/43:
> 
> http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...Clears_60_.php



I'm not as crazy as I look!










- Trip


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> My question is: What the heck would phone companies be doing with analog airways? Isn't everything digital?



The frequencies are neither analog or digital, they are just frequencies that are being repurposed from broadcast TV to other services.


Since they were sold to the highest bidder (with the exeption of the safety/homeland security users) I guess the winning bidders can put whatever they want over the air as long as that signal does not interfere with other authorized users. BTW just because they are telco's does not automatically mean they will be analog.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15657389
> 
> 
> Do I think it will get delayed? Oh, hell yes! Government always screws up a good thing.



Just to put things in perspective... the Federal Government is not canceling digital OTA, nor delaying its debut. The Federal Government has had ads on television for 6 to 12 months to let people know this is happening.


I think people may be a tad bit hard on the Federal Government with this one. It is a bit hard to synchronize the actions of 300 million people, a ton of which are either too busy or too ignorant (or a combination of the two) to deal with the unparalleled transition.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15658698
> 
> 
> WEAO 49 on DirecTV is now showing an SD center cut of the 16:9 HD signal on 49-1. So the graphics and stuff on the left and right side are getting cut off. Grrrr.... Previously DirecTV was picking up 49-2 and the HD content was properly letterboxed in the 4:3 SD window.



I can confirm that Dish Network is like that as well with regards to the PBS station.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15659420
> 
> 
> I think people may be a tad bit hard on the Federal Government with this one. It is a bit hard to synchronize the actions of 300 million people, a ton of which are either too busy or too ignorant (or a combination of the two) to deal with the unparalleled transition.



Honestly I don't think anyone is really blaming the government for this (well, outside of some like nickdawg who tend to ***** about anything and everything.







), rather they are indeed placing the blame on the chunk of the public who are either ignorant to the whole thing or just plain lazy.


I really do not think this bill will pass. Or in the very least I certainly hope it won't. With all the advertising done so far about this transition and the major choreographed cooperation needing to take place between of all the different broadcasters between themselves and the FCC, it's really going to create more problems if it's postponed and most of the problems are going to be behind the scenes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15659420
> 
> 
> Just to put things in perspective... the Federal Government is not canceling digital OTA, nor delaying its debut. The Federal Government has had ads on television for 6 to 12 months to let people know this is happening.



Not only the government but also broadcasters have spent all kinds of money on this.


But if you truly want to put it in "perspective" then google it. There is a bi-partisan plan in the Senate. *If* it passes, and most of the articles I read feel it will, it's got to clear the House. Obama will sign it, that we know for sure.


The House of Representatives have not acted because of the existing action of the Senate. Otherwise it appears there would have been a move there.


Again I do not want to see this go through, but I can't ignore what I'm reading. And I consider the Associated Press to be a very reliable source. I've seen other's but not one I can say is as reliable.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Well today the Senate has approved the bill proposing the delay. This might actually happen.


----------



## hookbill

Extra, Extra, read all about it from The Los Angeles Times:

_Hold onto your rabbit ears: People unprepared for the nation's digital TV transition may get a four-month reprieve.


The Senate today voted unanimously to delay the transition to all-digital broadcasts, originally scheduled for Feb. 17, until June 12. If the measure passes the House, homes that get TV the old-fashioned way -- over the air -- will have extra time to get ready.


A delay would give the Obama administration the extra time it has been requesting to whip the converter-box program into shape. The program gave $40 coupons for the special converter boxes needed to make digital signals work with their analog TV sets, but it ran out of money early this month, and the waiting list has been growing. Reuters says:


Many lawmakers worry that an estimated 20 million mostly poor, elderly and rural households are not ready for the switch, which requires owners of older television sets receiving over-the-air signals to buy a converter box or subscribe to cable or satellite TV.


The intention of the digital-TV transition is to deliver clearer over-the-air pictures and free up valuable spectrum for public safety officials' communication systems. Critics of a delay say the nation has received ample warning about the transition and that the nation should flip the switch already, as Hawaii and Wilmington, N.C., have.


It's hard not to laugh about this all when you watch the spoof public service announcement, above, from the "Talkshow With Spike Feresten." But it's also hard not to think about the trouble that grannies all over the country may face as they try to make sense of this whole mess.


-- Chris Gaither_

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...l-tv-dela.html


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15658698
> 
> 
> WEAO 49 on DirecTV is now showing an SD center cut of the 16:9 HD signal on 49-1. So the graphics and stuff on the left and right side are getting cut off. Grrrr.... Previously DirecTV was picking up 49-2 and the HD content was properly letterboxed in the 4:3 SD window.



That's normal operation with the DTV transition coming. WNEO and WVIZ on TWC are already like that. The other stations are not affected by this since the major networks are keeping everything "protected" for 4:3 on the HD channels.


If anything is cut off, it is the fault of PBS or whoever makes the show. They should have their "stuff" together by now and position their graphics so the text on screen is not cut off.


----------



## Vchat20

I really hate this centercut garbage. There are still shows that have information outside of the 4:3 section that's being missed. Letterboxing has always worked, why not use it? Jesus h. christ people...


Not only that, but considering the anemic HD offerings around here, I'd rather see those channels we only get in SD keep the letterboxed aspect for those shows that are in that native format so that at least when I watch it on my 16:9 screen, I can set the box to zoom mode and return the picture to it's native 16:9 aspect. Not have this ugly stretch-o crap or pillarboxed garbage.


This is one reason I at least prefer having USA without an HD copy because all of their shows (or at least most of them. Have yet to see one contrary to the fact) are letterboxed. I can record/watch shows on there and while not in HD, I can switch the box to zoom mode and have the 16:9 picture at least.


I guess I've just never paid attention before or have always watched the HD recordings, but I watched House on Fox earlier on my SD set and noticed the ugly centercut crap they're doing and I REALLY wish they could switch to letterboxing or something. It's one reason why I love watching the reruns on USA as they keep the original aspect.


I mean, the whole reason for going from 4:3 to 16:9 is the extra picture info. I would think showing a letterboxed picture and keeping that extra bit of picture rather than cutting it out altogether would be more preferrable.


*sigh* Surrounded by idiots/pedantic jackasses/old farts


edit: I understand this is mostly moot considering the OTA locals are the only case where this takes place with the transition and at least TWCNEO is smart enough to offer all of them in HD. But who's to say if something like this won't start with the cable networks at some point? Probably not soon, but eventually I could see it happening too.


----------



## Trip in VA

Two words for why the cropping instead of letterboxing:


Postage stamp.


Until AFD is implemented, things will be cropped to prevent that.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15661113
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, the whole reason for going from 4:3 to 16:9 is the extra picture info. I would think showing a letterboxed picture and keeping that extra bit of picture rather than cutting it out altogether would be more preferrable.
> 
> 
> (snip)



I 100% disagree. I like full frame 4:3. If I''m not going to get a full screen 16:9 picture, I want at least bars on two sides only. Four is unacceptable. The reason why I stopped watching USA is I am forced to watch a widescreen picture inside a widescreen TV, with a black frame. Bull crap!! I also like full frame 4:3 on my old TV sets. This transition makes me happy. Yes hookbill, I'm finally happy with TWC
























As far as broadcast TV, it is all 4:3 safe. This means that whether a 4:3 version is coming from the network or a cable/satellite company, nothing important is cut off. SDTV viewers will still see the same 4:3 picture on 3, 5, 8 and 19 that they have seen before. AFAIK, none of the current primetime offerings are composed for 16:9, so nothing of importance is lost anyway. And the only broadcast network to letterbox is NBC, who this season moved their bug so it will still be seen on 4:3 sets.


Rabbit ears is right. Cable/satellite would be stupid to pass it through in letterbox, since most of the content on these channels is 4:3, it would be postage stamp. I have a HDTV box connected to a SDTV in my bedroom, and I can confirm that looks horrible. Postage stamp/letterbox on 4:3 sets is bad, bad, bad!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15661143
> 
> 
> Until AFD is implemented, things will be cropped to prevent that.



Well then why the hell are we not doing that NOW? It's certainly available as far as I know. Back when I was staying with a friend of mine for a while in North Carolina and he had gotten a new 4:3 CRT with a digital tuner, one of the local stations must have been actively broadcasting the AFD code as daytime 4:3 shows were filling the screen on an otherwise 16:9 1080i broadcast and primetime programming was in it's 16:9 lettboxed format, all without changing the picture format on the set.


I swear, the US is falling behind more and more every day. 'least in the UK they have had DVB for ages now not to mention REAL cd quality digital terrestrial radio. Here in the US we are stuck with the old standby FM radio and some hackish digital standard cooked up by corporate beancounters and a digital tv transition that's being postponed even more than it should have been originally.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15661161
> 
> 
> I 100% disagree. I like full frame 4:3. If I''m not going to get a full screen 16:9 picture, I want at least bars on two sides only. Four is unacceptable. The reason why I stopped watching USA is I am forced to watch a widescreen picture inside a widescreen TV, with a black frame. Bull crap!! I also like full frame 4:3 on my old TV sets. This transition makes me happy. Yes hookbill, I'm finally happy with TWC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as broadcast TV, it is all 4:3 safe. This means that whether a 4:3 version is coming from the network or a cable/satellite company, nothing important is cut off. SDTV viewers will still see the same 4:3 picture on 3, 5, 8 and 19 that they have seen before. AFAIK, none of the current primetime offerings are composed for 16:9, so nothing of importance is lost anyway. And the only broadcast network to letterbox is NBC, who this season moved their bug so it will still be seen on 4:3 sets.
> 
> 
> Rabbit ears is right. Cable/satellite would be stupid to pass it through in letterbox, since most of the content on these channels is 4:3, it would be postage stamp. I have a HDTV box connected to a SDTV in my bedroom, and I can confirm that looks horrible. Postage stamp/letterbox on 4:3 sets is bad, bad, bad!



Dude. If you have a 16:9 capable set, switch it to zoom mode and you no longer have the postage stamp effect. It's what I have been complaining about all this time so far.


I really don't understand you sometimes nickdawg. First you complain about the lack of HD offerings and programming and picture quality then next you complain about letterboxing on old 4:3 SD sets.


Like Trip in VA stated, this is where we need the AFD bit and we need it now. And it's certainly available. Just idiot programmers and broadcasters are dragging their feet on it. I'd rather the stuff that has been FILMED in 16:9 (regardless of whether it has been composed for it or not. It was filmed in that aspect so there must be a reason for it or else they could have just filmed it in 4:3 in the first place.) displayed in 16:9 even if it means letterboxing it for 4:3 viewers.


One reason why I like NBC a lot IS because they letterbox their programming.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15661217
> 
> 
> 
> I swear, the US is falling behind more and more every day. 'least in the UK they have had DVB for ages now not to mention REAL cd quality digital terrestrial radio. Here in the US we are stuck with the old standby FM radio and some hackish digital standard cooked up by corporate beancounters and a digital tv transition that's being postponed even more than it should have been originally.



So dramatic.










As it is now, only NBC as a network has shown any interest in AFD. The others do not care one way or the other. And I have to agree with them, because it involves implementation of hardware on the affiliate as well as the cableco/satcaster. And on top of everything that has already been done, all the money spent, I do not think any network should *force* this on anyone. Affiliates shouldn't have to spend money on something that will be obsolete in a few years. There is nothing wrong with 4:3 on SDTV. That's the way it's been for 50+ years, no need to spend money changing something that will be vanishing in the near future. And especially in the case of TWC, I'm just happy a picture comes from them to my screen. Forget about any other nonsense in between to get messed up.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15661276
> 
> 
> So dramatic.



Dramatic, but true. This country is chock full of drama. Just turn on Fox News or MSNBC for a few hours.


----------



## Trip in VA

Um, I think Fox as a network has either just implemented AFD (via the splicer) or will be implementing it soon. PBS is also hard at work on it. I think ABC is the only network to explicitly reject AFD.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15661253
> 
> 
> Dude. If you have a 16:9 capable set, switch it to zoom mode and you no longer have the postage stamp effect. It's what I have been complaining about all this time so far.



The result of doing that is horrendous. I've tried it. It is equivalent to horizontally stretching the picture to fill the screen. The picture is degraded and does not look as good as when it is left alone. I either avoid this kind of programming or just watch it as is, pretending I have a smaller TV!


















> Quote:
> I really don't understand you sometimes nickdawg. First you complain about the lack of HD offerings and programming and picture quality then next you complain about letterboxing on old 4:3 SD sets.



Digital (not equal to) HDTV. How programs are shown on SDTV has nothing to do with HD offerings. ABC, CBS, FOX, CW, MNTV, + cable networks have HDTV channels and show 4:3 on their 4:3 channels. Or, if you want to save bandwidth, just make the bugs 4:3 safe and chop off the sides. It's the perfect solution.



> Quote:
> Like Trip in VA stated, this is where we need the AFD bit and we need it now. And it's certainly available. Just idiot programmers and broadcasters are dragging their feet on it. I'd rather the stuff that has been FILMED in 16:9 (regardless of whether it has been composed for it or not. It was filmed in that aspect so there must be a reason for it or else they could have just filmed it in 4:3 in the first place.) displayed in 16:9 even if it means letterboxing it for 4:3 viewers.



That means nothing. ER was filmed in 16:9 since the start, showed in 4:3 for most of its run. Law & Order, the original, filmed in 16:9 since 1996, also 4:3 until very recently. Seinfeld, filmed in 16:9, shown in 4:3. Only now being shown in 16:9(that is still 4:3 safe). Everybody Loves Raymond, King Of Queens, Becker, CSI(all), Without A Trace, Cold Case, any new program on ABC, CBS, FOX and even NBC---all filmed/shot in 16:9, but still shown in 4:3. The main reason for doing this is to be future-proof, when 16:9 sets are the majority and 16:9 originated sources are the norm.



> Quote:
> One reason why I like NBC a lot IS because they letterbox their programming.



That was my biggest turn off of NBC, other than the crappy programming lately.














I only started watching NBC again when I got the HDTV in 2006. Between 2004-2006 I watched more ABC, CBS and FOX.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15661339
> 
> 
> Um, I think Fox as a network has either just implemented AFD (via the splicer) or will be implementing it soon. PBS is also hard at work on it. I think ABC is the only network to explicitly reject AFD.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Yes, of course. I remembered it was someone else. I believe CBS is also opposed to it(and Les Moonves is even against letterboxing







). All I have to say is, look at the ratings. Even "more of the picture" cannot rescue crap shows. And "seeing less" isn't a deterrent to good shows.


And if FOX is doing AFD at the source, doesn't mean the end user is guaranteed to see it. I was at my mom's house earlier, and FOX was on. SD FOX on channel 8. It was a beautiful 4:3 picture, and there was no bug to be seen at all!!! I'm jealous!! On the HDTV channel, we get that ugly affiliate bug in the far right corner(which explains its absence on SDTV).


Also note that in all these years, not ONE network has attempted a massive rollout of letterboxing on a sporting event, especially major events. I think they're aware of what the audience wants and know where the "boundaries" are.


----------



## burgher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15659167
> 
> 
> I think this is caused by global warming and the huge black hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. (magnetic influxation of the reverse flow carrier traveling through a Boise-Einstein Concentrate)
> 
> JJK



AHH yes.....could this also explain TWC's lack of HD programming???


----------



## ErieMarty

when they already show up in other locations..


isn't it taking up bandwith that could be used for more important things...


Like more Music channels..lol..


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15661113
> 
> 
> I really hate this centercut garbage. There are still shows that have information outside of the 4:3 section that's being missed. Letterboxing has always worked, why not use it? Jesus h. christ people...



I agree, but some people prefer 4:3. I know, I know... that is an abomination to film in 16:9, but still remains true. I much rather watch something in widescreen on my CRT than in full screen. But they wouldn't sell 4:3 DVD's unless people wanted it. Poorer sight, think a full 4:3 screen is much better than using almost just half the screen, etc... are reasons why 4:3 survives still. Sometimes it is hard to get people to change their minds.


What would be nice is to be offered the choice, if that is even possible, like my HD receiver does, with normal, zoom and some funky other option. That can't be too hard to do. You can send the 16:9 and the viewer on whatever can "choose" whether to zoom to 4:3 or stay at the 16:9. Make it a default option on the Sat or Cable Receiver.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15660221
> 
> 
> Not only the government but also broadcasters have spent all kinds of money on this.



Oh boo bloody hoo for the broadcasters. The broadcasters dragged their heals on this the entire time and needed the Federal Government to force them into this digital transition to begin with.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15661161
> 
> 
> Yes hookbill, I'm finally happy with TWC



I'm confident that won't last long.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15662680
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boo bloody hoo for the broadcasters. The broadcasters dragged their heals on this the entire time and needed the Federal Government to force them into this digital transition to begin with.



I was talking about the advertising dollars. Broadcasters spent a great deal of money themselves. I know of 2 times that FOX 8 put on a 1/2 hour show during the 6:00 news explaining all the details and answering the questions. They have had people answering calls live on tv to answer questions.


All a mute point now, it's full steam ahead with the delay. With a unanimous vote in the Senate, it will fly through the house and Obama will sign.










I'll bet 1000.00 cyber bucks that when June rolls around the percentage of people ready will be about the same. All this delay will do is cause confusion.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15662784
> 
> 
> I'll bet 1000.00 cyber bucks that when June rolls around the percentage of people ready will be about the same. All this delay will do is cause confusion.



If the delay isn't forcing broadcasters to keep the analog on, this delay may very well help to get people to get the boxes for their tvs, as their channels will stop being on the air. They'll say "WTF?!?" and write angry letters, find out what is what and finally act on it. A wholesale switch was probably a bad idea from the beginning. Get enough channels off the air and people will start acting.


The delay will allow additional funding to the digital converter box program. Right now, it is probably the elderly and the poor that are behind the curve (those not too well represented on the Internet). This will get their attention better and with the funding back in the program, we'll be able to make progress. So I see your $1,000 cyber bucks and raise it by a dozen cyber donuts.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15662208
> 
> 
> when they already show up in other locations..
> 
> 
> isn't it taking up bandwith that could be used for more important things...
> 
> 
> Like more Music channels..lol..



No additional bandwidth is taken up by having the channels in the 800's. The 800's are the actual channels, they "map down" to other channel numbers for convenience. This is also true for satellite. For example the local channels on my Dish Network DVR show up on 3, 5 & 8, but they are actually on 8510, 8511 etc. (the SD versions) and 5200, 5201 etc. for HD. The only duplication is the SD & HD versions.


The locals map down to the 3.00, 3.01 format, ironocally both the SD and HD show up as .00, with the OTA versions showing up as .01, .02 etc.


----------



## Argee

I really am sick of these stations running constant weather crawlers during entertainment shows.

WKYC seems to be proud that they can put three lines of information on the bottom of the screen along with a radar map that is useless. They take up 25-30% of the screen and who the hell can read lines lines of info and pay attention to the show being broadcast at the same time?

If the damn weather alerts are so important, just pull the show off the air and hit us with weather stuff. Not sure what good 3-2 is if the need to disrupt 3 and 3-1 with this stuff.

No wonder more and more people are watching the cable networks.


----------



## Cathode Kid

The closed-captioning standard has always included a full-screen text mode. It would be interesting if they could combine this signalling channel with something resembling the EAS alert system, so a viewer could choose whether to have weather alerts pop up on their screen as a _digital overlay_. This would enable viewers to see the alerts without having them embedded into their video on their DVR. Having said that, the captioning system provides a fairly low-bandwidth pipe so it wouldn't lend itself well to detailed radar images, but it could allow the viewer to tune to a designated subchannel to get more details if desired.


----------



## nickdawg

At least the Cleveland TV people kept it clean tonight. We didn't have Power of 5 *H*ead *D*ouchebag Mark Johnson interrupt _Scrubs_, although that damn map was irritating enough.


----------



## Vchat20

At least you guys in cleveland have well budgeted stations who can do the weather crawls and maps without cutting back to a postage stamped SD feed. All of the Y-town stations here don't have the equipment to overlay their own graphics on the HD feeds so when they have to run that stuff, they cut back to SD either pillarboxed or postage stamped.


This especially irks me on WFMJ as they like to do that during primetime shows willy-nilly. But it's understandable from a budget standpoint. But it's one reason why I've moved all my NBC recordings to WKYC instead. Even with the crawls and weather warnings, it stays in HD and I don't lose nearly as much of the picture as I do on WFMJ when they cut over to the overlaid graphics.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15670548
> 
> 
> At least you guys in cleveland have well budgeted stations who can do the weather crawls and maps without cutting back to a postage stamped SD feed. All of the Y-town stations here don't have the equipment to overlay their own graphics on the HD feeds so when they have to run that stuff, they cut back to SD either pillarboxed or postage stamped.
> 
> 
> This especially irks me on WFMJ as they like to do that during primetime shows willy-nilly. But it's understandable from a budget standpoint. But it's one reason why I've moved all my NBC recordings to WKYC instead. Even with the crawls and weather warnings, it stays in HD and I don't lose nearly as much of the picture as I do on WFMJ when they cut over to the overlaid graphics.



OPPOSITE DAY!!!!








































































































































I was just about to say I wish I could get WYTV-DT for ABC. I've seen WFMJ and WKBN and I'd rather have that in SDTV than what we have in HDTV. WKYC runs a three line crawl at the bottom of the screen. WEWS wastes a good portion of the screen with blue background and small text at the bottom. WJW cannot even overlay on HD(because of the FOX splicer system). I compared a few weeks back, WFML had a small banner when WKYC had three lines of scrolling eyesores.


----------



## nickdawg

I just turned on 21 analog OTA, the school closing banner is in the bottom letterbox bar of NBC. If WFMJ-DT is showing it windowboxed, just use the "zoom-o-vision" setting you mentioned yesterday. Then you'd have a completely clean 16:9 picture.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15670635
> 
> 
> I just turned on 21 analog OTA, the school closing banner is in the bottom letterbox bar of NBC. If WFMJ-DT is showing it windowboxed, just use the "zoom-o-vision" setting you mentioned yesterday. Then you'd have a completely clean 16:9 picture.



But it's just the 480i letterboxed picture upsampled and fed to the 1080i DT broadcast. WKYC and other cleveland stations keep the HD network feed intact but just overlay the crawls. There's a big difference. I can live with the crawls especially on WKYC since very little if any of the active picture is lost. What I don't like is being dropped back to an SD picture for this stuff which I already know well enough about.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15670719
> 
> 
> But it's just the 480i letterboxed picture upsampled and fed to the 1080i DT broadcast. WKYC and other cleveland stations keep the HD network feed intact but just overlay the crawls. There's a big difference.



I'd rather have 480i widescreen* with the school closing banner cut off than 1080i HD with crap visible on the screen. Try the zoom mode on WFMJ. From visualizing it, the school closing banner _should_ not be visible in zoom mode.


*(I'll admit that zooming looks decent on HD channels)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15669727
> 
> 
> The closed-captioning standard has always included a full-screen text mode. *It would be interesting if they could combine this signalling channel with something resembling the EAS alert system, so a viewer could choose whether to have weather alerts pop up on their screen as a digital overlay.* This would enable viewers to see the alerts without having them embedded into their video on their DVR. Having said that, the captioning system provides a fairly low-bandwidth pipe so it wouldn't lend itself well to detailed radar images, but it could allow the viewer to tune to a designated subchannel to get more details if desired.



Oh, heck yes. That would be such a good solution, and it would also stop at least 50% of the complaining!!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15670745
> 
> 
> I'd rather have 480i widescreen* with the school closing banner cut off than 1080i HD with crap visible on the screen. Try the zoom mode on WFMJ. From visualizing it, the school closing banner _should_ not be visible in zoom mode.
> 
> 
> *(I'll admit that zooming looks decent on HD channels)



I can't zoom HD channels. It's just not possible.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15670816
> 
> 
> I can't zoom HD channels. It's just not possible.



Wow, another limitation of Tivo!!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15670800
> 
> 
> Oh, heck yes. That would be such a good solution, and it would also stop at least 50% of the complaining!!!!



Well, you'd still have the stations doing their own thing, but what TWC has set up in our area at least for those with their SA/Motorola DVR's is this: Anytime an EAS message is broadcast, TW sends the text and audio directly to all the boxes and they run the text crawl and cut in the audio just like most stations do already but it happens on every channel and recordings and isn't recorded as part of the shows running that time.


Though it seems TW's only doing occasional tests so far with that setup. I have yet to see them run a legitimate EAS message.


But if all cable providers could follow suit with this and the OTA stations can cut their own weather alerts (FAT chance), this would be a much more bearable basis.


Only other possible thing is either run those alerts/crawls on an SD subchannel (ie: WBCB for WFMJ and leave the 1080i network programming alone) or possibly run a second audio feed on the primary channel.


----------



## nickdawg

The only problem I see with that idea is "analog freeloaders" on basic cable. You need Digital converter box to get the subchannels of local affiliates. WKYC-2, WOIO-2, WUAB-2, and all subsequent subchannels of WVIZ and WNEO are carried on Digital Cable onle, somewhere in the 300s. (they used to be in the 700s). Once the DTV transition is complete, 100% of households with OTA will be able to get subchannels, since they have digital TVs or converter boxes.


However, I see this "public service/safety" issue a good way to push for an all-digital system on cable, and requiring everyone to have a digital cable box. This way local affiliates can pass weather information as an overlay banner from the converter box or digital TV on OTA and send the same information to cable/satellite and have the cable/satellite boxes run it in the style of EAS tests.


----------



## Vchat20

They could always do the second audio track thing too just looping the EAS messages. Analog broadcasts are capable of low quality secondary audio as are most tv's. Check out 'SAP'.


But again, this'd still require cooperation with the broadcasters. Else they could continue to run the crawls/maps regardless of what TWC is doing.


----------



## nickdawg

I guarantee that even if TWC did this, Mark Johnson would still rear his ugly little head on my TV screen.


So, how do you get WKYC and WFMJ? That would be like a dream come true for me to be able to get both channels. If I did get the Y'town locals, I don't think I'd ever watch the Cleveland stations. WKBN beats WOIO. WYTV beats WEWS.


----------



## Vchat20

Cable of course. WKYC is definitely way too far to grab with their meager Tx Power and I'm just on the fringe of WFMJ as it is. At least on the Cable side we get both the Youngstown and Cleveland markets to choose from without that mess.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/15668443
> 
> 
> I really am sick of these stations running constant weather crawlers during entertainment shows.
> 
> WKYC seems to be proud that they can put three lines of information on the bottom of the screen along with a radar map that is useless. They take up 25-30% of the screen and who the hell can read lines lines of info and pay attention to the show being broadcast at the same time?
> 
> If the damn weather alerts are so important, just pull the show off the air and hit us with weather stuff. Not sure what good 3-2 is if the need to disrupt 3 and 3-1 with this stuff.
> 
> No wonder more and more people are watching the cable networks.



Agree, I agree.










As I've said before:

- put a SMALL weather warning symbol on the screen, referring people to another source (like their so precious and perceived important sub ch's)

- if being warned that there is snow on the way in NEO in January (big shocker







) then get a friggin $10 weather radio


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15671144
> 
> 
> Wow, another limitation of Tivo!!



TiVo does allow you to zoom, my television prevents it! At least my big television does.


So does my small HD TV. I'll have to look again, I think that's the way it works. I'll also look at my SA box and get back to you.


IIRC I could do it on my Sony but it looked awful so I never did. In fact, that maybe the case now


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15671186
> 
> 
> 
> Though it seems TW's only doing occasional tests so far with that setup. I have yet to see them run a legitimate EAS message.



It's been a while but while I was watching recordings I saw a current alert come on the television. I think it temporarily stopped the recording, or at least blocked it so I had to see the warning.


Like I said that was sometime ago.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15671144
> 
> 
> Wow, another limitation of Tivo!!



In a sense you're kind of right. But not exactly.


TiVo offers more ways to change your aspect then SA, but you cannot change the aspect on HD unless you have it set for 4:3 mode. That's using TiVo only. TiVo has a smart mode where it will adjust for either 4:3 or 16:9 but I do not like bars so I will set it for 16:9. If I need to stretch HD, and I never do I'll put up with side bars on that I can do it with my television.


I'd hardly call it a limitation, the theory being "why stretch HD?" which for the life of me I don't know why you would. But to each his own.


----------



## JJkizak

I haven't figured out why OTA 49.1 sometimes broadcasts 15 x 8 instead of 16 x 9. I don't like the weather crawls telling me it's going to snow or get cold. I don't like seeing a 2.35 x 1 movie in 16 x 9 loosing half the picture and amplifying the film grain. Sometimes it is 4 x 3 even worse. I don't like some of the crawls scrunching the image into short fat people. I do like watching the Orange County Choppers total honesty, talents, and Senior ass chewing everybody to get to work and Mikee chopping down the door to Senior's office. (pure comedy) Their building is full of the best equipment money can buy. The best show on TV with no writers, no directors, and incorporating something new called "brutal honesty".

JJK


----------



## dleising

I noticed that Time Warner redesigned their webpage to the 21st century. There was an HD section that says "More HD Channels Are Coming Soon

More crystal-clear entertainment is coming your way. We're adding more and more HD channels all the time. "


...It would be nice to know when "soon" means.



Here's the link:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/North...able/hdtv.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15673871
> 
> 
> I noticed that Time Warner redesigned their webpage to the 21st century. There was an HD section that says "More HD Channels Are Coming Soon
> 
> More crystal-clear entertainment is coming your way. We’re adding more and more HD channels all the time. "
> 
> 
> ...It would be nice to know when "soon" means.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/North...able/hdtv.html



Interesting! I just looked yesterday and the old site was up.


However I did not see the part where it said "More to come." I'll look around a bit more.


Edit: Found it. As you said "We're adding more channels all the time." Well, that's an out and outright lie. When is the last time they added an HD channel? Wasn't it the fall, Big Ten HD? I don't recall any others since then and we are close to February. That was September. 5 months hardly qualifies as "all the time."


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/15668443
> 
> 
> I really am sick of these stations running constant weather crawlers during entertainment shows.
> 
> WKYC seems to be proud that they can put three lines of information on the bottom of the screen along with a radar map that is useless. They take up 25-30% of the screen and who the hell can read lines lines of info and pay attention to the show being broadcast at the same time?
> 
> If the damn weather alerts are so important, just pull the show off the air and hit us with weather stuff. Not sure what good 3-2 is if the need to disrupt 3 and 3-1 with this stuff.
> 
> No wonder more and more people are watching the cable networks.



What ever happened to the days when the stations would only place the letter "W" on the screen during bad weather?


----------



## Rbuchina

Has anyone else lost the MGMHD channel here on TWC? I lost this channel about 3 weeks ago and thought it was just a temporary thing. I'm on the old Mentor Comcast system. I just left an E-mail to TWC service and I tried a phone call but the CSR wanted to know the channel # and I am not in fromt of my TV. I explained that TWC only has about ten HD channels and he should be able to find it fairly easy. I was told to call back when I'm at home. The phone call was every bit as "helpfull" as I expected. Hopefully an E-mail reply will shed some light or my friends here on the Cleveland forum will at least let me know if this is just a Mentor thing or all of TWC Ohio.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15674956
> 
> 
> Has anyone else lost the MGMHD channel here on TWC? I lost this channel about 3 weeks ago and thought it was just a temporary thing. I'm on the old Mentor Comcast system. I just left an E-mail to TWC service and I tried a phone call but the CSR wanted to know the channel # and I am not in fromt of my TV. I explained that TWC only has about ten HD channels and he should be able to find it fairly easy. I was told to call back when I'm at home. The phone call was every bit as "helpfull" as I expected. Hopefully an E-mail reply will shed some light or my friends here on the Cleveland forum will at least let me know if this is just a Mentor thing or all of TWC Ohio.
> 
> 
> Ray



Heh heh. This one time I gotta side with the CSR. How the heck can he tell you if it's on your screen if you're not home to look at it.










Sorry I can't help you, I dumped that "special" tier a while back. If it's not something I watch, why pay for it?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15674872
> 
> 
> What ever happened to the days when the stations would only place the letter "W" on the screen during bad weather?



Since I watch 85% of television through recordings I can't tell you how aggravating it is to have those warnings come up. Totally useless to me now that they are 3 to 4 weeks old!


Growing up in Southern California I never saw this stuff until I moved to Northern Kentucky in 1997. I lived in New Jersey for 1 year in 1981 and I don't remember seeing anything at all about weather warnings on television during prime time. And I also lived 1 school year in 1969 in Lowell, Massachusetts and the only time school closed was when we had a storm like we are having today, and weather warnings? You gotta be kidding!


----------



## Tim Lones

WKYC.com reports that the House of Representatives once again have defeated the bill to delay the digital transition..


http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_...06025&catid=33


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15675662
> 
> 
> WKYC.com reports that the House of Representatives once again have defeated the bill to delay the digital transition..
> 
> 
> http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_...06025&catid=33



Great news!!!! I find it hard to believe but it is an AP article. I had to believe with a unanimous vote in the Senate it had to pass, specially with a Democratic majority. Too bad the article didn't have more details.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15675700
> 
> 
> Great news!!!! I find it hard to believe but it is an AP article. I had to believe with a unanimous vote in the Senate it had to pass, specially with a Democratic majority. Too bad the article didn't have more details.



I think the bill needed a two-thirds majority to pass.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/15676588
> 
> 
> I think the bill needed a two-thirds majority to pass.



No, that only applies to an override of a veto.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15676612
> 
> 
> No, that only applies to an override of a veto.



For some reason this needs a 2/3 majority. I'm quite politically savvy, but am baffled as to why the Democrats needed a 2/3 majority for passage. My favorite quote from this article :


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *article* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "We could do nothing worse than to delay this transition date," Barton said. "The bill is a solution looking for a problem that exists mostly in the mind of the Obama administration."



...and approximately 6.5 million Americans according to The Nielsen Co.


I won't lose sleep over this, but seeing that receiver program is bankrupt and it won't be possible to get coupons to those who need them, millions will be without OTA programming for probably a couple plus months. Granted, losing the signal will make people leap to action to remedy their lack of TV and that will help move this forward, but the Federal Government will need to be able to move funds out very quickly, of course, while making sure they aren't being duped out of billions like the Bush Admin always seemed to manage to do.


Overall, this will hurt the Republicans seeing that people not having TV are going to be grumpy and ask why the TV was turned off. When it is told to them the Republicans squashed the delay, they'll focus disdain that direction and honestly, the Republicans can't afford any bad will against their already battered party.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15676612
> 
> 
> No, that only applies to an override of a veto.



You are incorrect. Here is the detailed result of the vote: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-41


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/15676950
> 
> 
> You are incorrect. Here is the detailed result of the vote: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-41



No, you're incorrect. I don't know why this bill needed 2/3 majority, but I present to you the Constitution of The United States:

_Section 7. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.


Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.


Every order, resolution, or vote to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the same shall take effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill._


That trumps your article.









http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut....html#section7


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15672750
> 
> 
> In a sense you're kind of right. But not exactly.
> 
> 
> TiVo offers more ways to change your aspect then SA, but you cannot change the aspect on HD unless you have it set for 4:3 mode. That's using TiVo only. TiVo has a smart mode where it will adjust for either 4:3 or 16:9 but I do not like bars so I will set it for 16:9. If I need to stretch HD, and I never do I'll put up with side bars on that I can do it with my television.
> 
> 
> I'd hardly call it a limitation, the theory being "why stretch HD?" which for the life of me I don't know why you would. But to each his own.



I don't stretch HD. I DO NOT stretch ANY program. What I was talking about is using the "zoom" setting since WFMJ goes back to SD to run the school closing banner. Since NBC's analog feed is letterbox, it would be windowboxed on HD channel. So I said why not just "blow up" the picture to 16:9 and cut off the weather banner?


And I'm still pissed at Tivo, it sounds like they are *aiding and abetting* and helping people watch their HDTVs the wrong way. On my new 4250HDC box, you cannot stretch or zoom any channel(I love that box!) and on the 8300HD you can stretch or zoom with the # button, but you cannot stretch all the SD channels, it goes back to OAR with bars when you change channels.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15676711
> 
> 
> For some reason this needs a 2/3 majority. I'm quite politically savvy, but am baffled as to why the Democrats needed a 2/3 majority for passage. My favorite quote from this article :
> 
> ...and approximately 6.5 million Americans according to The Nielsen Co.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, this will hurt the Republicans seeing that people not having TV are going to be grumpy and ask why the TV was turned off. When it is told to them the Republicans squashed the delay, they'll focus disdain that direction and honestly, the Republicans can't afford any bad will against their already battered party.



Dems can pass this on their own with a floor vote. This was just a game by the Democrat House leadership knowing that the Republicans would take the responsible position.

_"Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at the Consumers Union, which has been lobbying for a delay, said he hopes House Democrats bring the bill up again for a regular floor vote, which would only require majority support to pass. Wednesday's vote took place under a special procedure that required two-thirds support for passage._


Of course, the MSM will portray this as a Republican negative, not an abdication of responsibility by the Dems (see lead for your Yahoo article and WKYC link from Tim Lones as proof).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15677372
> 
> 
> I don't stretch HD. I DO NOT stretch ANY program. What I was talking about is using the "zoom" setting since WFMJ goes back to SD to run the school closing banner. Since NBC's analog feed is letterbox, it would be windowboxed on HD channel. So I said why not just "blow up" the picture to 16:9 and cut off the weather banner?
> 
> 
> And I'm still pissed at Tivo, it sounds like they are *aiding and abetting* and helping people watch their HDTVs the wrong way. On my new 4250HDC box, you cannot stretch or zoom any channel(I love that box!) and on the 8300HD you can stretch or zoom with the # button, but you cannot stretch all the SD channels, it goes back to OAR with bars when you change channels.



First, I didn't say you did stretch it which is why I worded it the way I did. Once again you read the post incorrectly.


Second, I'm not going to engage you on this. We've been asked several times to stop the bickering on this and I admit I have plugged TiVo a couple of times but I've tried to refer to it as "my DVR" so there would not be a debate. On my post concerning stretching all I said was I couldn't stretch HD. Which is true, I can't but you had to jump in with the TiVo stuff again. I'm not going there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15677373
> 
> _"Gene Kimmelman, vice president for federal policy at the Consumers Union, which has been lobbying for a delay, said he hopes House Democrats bring the bill up again for a regular floor vote, which would only require majority support to pass. Wednesday's vote took place under a special procedure that required two-thirds support for passage._



Thank's ajstan, I was looking for something that explained the 2/3 thing. Ordinarily just a majority is needed to pass.


I know my Constitution.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15673871
> 
> 
> I noticed that Time Warner redesigned their webpage to the 21st century. There was an HD section that says "More HD Channels Are Coming Soon
> 
> More crystal-clear entertainment is coming your way. We're adding more and more HD channels all the time. "
> 
> 
> ...It would be nice to know when "soon" means.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/North...able/hdtv.html



Also note that the graphics on the Start Over tab are the Navigator graphics, which means sometime this year Cleveland is also getting Navigator for Start Over to work. I can't believe the site changed, I was just there yesterday and it was the old, outdated one.


"soon" Must mean very soon, since TWC never used to have anything listed about adding more channels or Start Over. Also, there must be another Navigator conversion coming, since I see nothing about the SARA guide on that site.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15674956
> 
> 
> Has anyone else lost the MGMHD channel here on TWC? I lost this channel about 3 weeks ago and thought it was just a temporary thing. I'm on the old Mentor Comcast system. I just left an E-mail to TWC service and I tried a phone call but the CSR wanted to know the channel # and I am not in fromt of my TV. I explained that TWC only has about ten HD channels and he should be able to find it fairly easy. I was told to call back when I'm at home. The phone call was every bit as "helpfull" as I expected. Hopefully an E-mail reply will shed some light or my friends here on the Cleveland forum will at least let me know if this is just a Mentor thing or all of TWC Ohio.
> 
> 
> Ray



Do you have a Tivo or cable card device? It might be that area changed that channel to SDV. Or TWC made a mistake and removed it. MGMHD and the other 3 channels are coming in on my TV.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15674057
> 
> 
> Interesting! I just looked yesterday and the old site was up.
> 
> 
> However I did not see the part where it said "More to come." I'll look around a bit more.
> 
> 
> Edit: Found it. As you said "We're adding more channels all the time." Well, that's an out and outright lie. When is the last time they added an HD channel? Wasn't it the fall, Big Ten HD? I don't recall any others since then and we are close to February. That was September. 5 months hardly qualifies as "all the time."



Now, now, don't anger the HD gods who control the adding of HD channels!!














Those new channels will be coming soon enough, I know it. Especially since they are now being so open on their new site.


----------



## edjrwinnt

For what it's worth the local lead tech told me that Time Warner is aiming for late February with SDV in our area. They are currently testing the TiVo SDV adapters in Akron and getting the servers ready for them.


Channel 436 doesn't come in for me and hasn't since the last TiVo 11.0 update, which is why I was talking to him in the first place. It sounds like North Ridgeville and Mentor TiVo customers are having the same problem that we had with the 9.4 summer update last year with lost channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/15678791
> 
> 
> For what it's worth the local lead tech told me that Time Warner is aiming for late February with SDV in our area. They are currently testing the TiVo SDV adapters in Akron and getting the servers ready for them.
> 
> 
> Channel 436 doesn't come in for me and hasn't since the last TiVo 11.0 update, which is why I was talking to him in the first place. It sounds like North Ridgeville and Mentor TiVo customers are having the same problem that we had with the 9.4 summer update last year with lost channels.



Are you "legacy TWC", former Adelphia or former Comcast?


Also, I have to find the address, but twcneo.com has had a page where you can order "tuning adapters".


Akron already has several SDV channels live. The shopping tier and most of the NBA/NHL/ESPN sports packages in the 700s. My guess is that's what they're talking about for late February in your area. That's the biggest thing with SDV, once that works, they can start adding other new channels.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I'm in the old Comcast area.


I'm already registered for the TiVo SD adapter. I'm the one that brought it to the attention of this forum about the SDV adapter registration actually.


----------



## nickdawg

Oh yeah, that was so long ago I must have forgotten about it!










But here's the link again, in case anyone new is interested:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...r/dtaform.html 


Also, TWC has a nice new Q&A page about HDTV, SDV, Digital Cable, etc.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...+Cable+Service 

If they're getting ready to go with SDV in the Comcast area, they must be almost ready to have SDV across the entire system. I'm in shock, I've never seen TWC work this fast or be this open. They must be in trouble with their lack of HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/15678791
> 
> 
> For what it's worth the local lead tech told me that Time Warner is aiming for late February with SDV in our area. They are currently testing the TiVo SDV adapters in Akron and getting the servers ready for them.
> 
> 
> Channel 436 doesn't come in for me and hasn't since the last TiVo 11.0 update, which is why I was talking to him in the first place. It sounds like North Ridgeville and Mentor TiVo customers are having the same problem that we had with the 9.4 summer update last year with lost channels.



I don't know if I get that channel or not. When's the next Cavs game? I'll give it a look.


Also you will notice we still don't have guide data for channel 326! Inundated and I both sent emails to Tribune Media, and I have a new case number.


If I get it I'll let you know. I'll pm you with some further info.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15679079
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, that was so long ago I must have forgotten about it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But here's the link again, in case anyone new is interested:
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...r/dtaform.html
> 
> 
> Also, TWC has a nice new Q&A page about HDTV, SDV, Digital Cable, etc.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...+Cable+Service
> 
> If they're getting ready to go with SDV in the Comcast area, they must be almost ready to have SDV across the entire system. I'm in shock, I've never seen TWC work this fast or be this open. They must be in trouble with their lack of HD.



I already got on the list, but I need two. Maybe I should request another one?










Thanks nickdawg for posting that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15679349
> 
> 
> I already got on the list, but I need two. Maybe I should request another one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks nickdawg for posting that.



So we know SDV is live in Akron(which also includes the legacy TWC area with Navigator), former Comcast is on the way to having SDV(February as mentioned earlier). Now all we need to know is Cleveland/Adelphia. That's the last piece of the puzzle. Once that's ready to go, new channels are coming.


Maybe I'll win the "cyber bet" after all!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15679537
> 
> 
> So we know SDV is live in Akron(which also includes the legacy TWC area with Navigator), former Comcast is on the way to having SDV(February as mentioned earlier). Now all we need to know is Cleveland/Adelphia. That's the last piece of the puzzle. Once that's ready to go, new channels are coming.
> 
> 
> Maybe I'll win the "cyber bet" after all!!



OK. And maybe the Easter bunny will bring your SDV in a big basket! Yeah that will happen.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15679680
> 
> 
> OK. And maybe the Easter bunny will bring your SDV in a big basket! Yeah that will happen.



The Easter Bunny will be bringing me (and you) USA HD, F/X HD, SCIFI HD and many others!!


I'm sad now. I just watched my episode of Psych for the week on UHD. Too bad I had to suffer through a damn promo for Monk and Psych---on USA!!


----------



## schandorsky

Does anyone know if these switching boxes (sdv) will work with a TV that has a cablecard?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/15680067
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if these switching boxes (sdv) will work with a TV that has a cablecard?



No unfortunately you will have to get digital service and a box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/15680067
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if these switching boxes (sdv) will work with a TV that has a cablecard?



No, only Tivos. But *fortunately* you will need a digital cable box, which opens the door to many great new services. You'll get an interactive program guide, a channel banner that tells you what show is on and what channel you're tuned to, access to many free Video on Demand services and many new services in the future, such as Start Over, where you can watch shows in their entirety without having to record it.


You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box







. A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner







.


Also, you do *not* have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15680266
> 
> 
> No, only Tivos. But *fortunately* you will need a digital cable box, which opens the door to many great new services. You'll get an interactive program guide, a channel banner that tells you what show is on and what channel you're tuned to, access to many free Video on Demand services and many new services in the future, such as Start Over, where you can watch shows in their entirety without having to record it.
> 
> 
> You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Also, you do *not* have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.



We agree a bit on this, but as usual you like to play devil's advocate. I think that the service and the converter box is indeed a deal, however the amount of technology that you claim it has is based on your limited knowledge of what is truly out there.


Suffice to say however, nickdawg is (gulp) right.

















I have to go to the doctor now, once again I have serious headaches from banging my head against the wall. Not just you nickdawg, I got someone else who is getting under my skin.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15680733
> 
> 
> We agree a bit on this, but as usual you like to play devil's advocate. I think that the service and the converter box is indeed a deal, *however the amount of technology that you claim it has is based on your limited knowledge of what is truly out there.*



What? "Limited Knowledge"? Even though I may be clueless about Tivo, I do know that the technology in a digital cable box is far superior to a crappy TV tuner, with a cable card.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15680876
> 
> 
> What? "Limited Knowledge"? Even though I may be clueless about Tivo, I do know that the technology in a digital cable box is far superior to a crappy TV tuner, with a cable card.



Thank you for proving my point.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15681018
> 
> 
> Thank you for proving my point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15681067



Of course you are.


I'll explain it to you later. Using blackberrry now

.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15680134
> 
> 
> No unfortunately you will have to get digital service and a box.



Thanks for your answer.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15680266
> 
> 
> No, only Tivos. But *fortunately* you will need a digital cable box, which opens the door to many great new services. You'll get an interactive program guide, a channel banner that tells you what show is on and what channel you're tuned to, access to many free Video on Demand services and many new services in the future, such as Start Over, where you can watch shows in their entirety without having to record it.
> 
> 
> You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Also, you do *not* have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.



Thanks for your answer also.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15680266
> 
> 
> You'll really be amazed by what you'll get for $7 a month for a digital cable box
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . A much better experience than just a cable card and an awful TV set tuner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



TV set tuners are hardly awful!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15680266
> 
> 
> Also, you do *not* have to get "digital service". Only a digital box. The Digital Tier channels(in red on your channel lineup card) are an extra $5, but you're not forced to pay for them if you don't want them.



You gotta read the fine print, nickdawg.










To receive all services, *Digital Cable service*, a remote control and lease of a Digital set-top box are required. Some services are not available to CableCARD customers. Not all equipment supports all services. All services may not be available in all areas. HD Services require the use of an HD box and television. Subject to change without notice. Some restrictions apply.


If he has cable cards then he is already receiving a charge for digital service. He would then have to pay for the box. But there is a charge for digital service, you don't just pay for the box.


----------



## Rbuchina

I put my request in for an HD converter coupon on the Sunday the program ran out of money and they began to create a wait list. Yesturday I recieved my coupon in the mail so I must have just got in under the wire. Now I need to see whay kind of box to get.


I still have not heard if anyone else has lost the MGMHD movie channel (473) on TWC. Any other TWC customers out there with the HD tier???



Ray


----------



## Tim Lones

I picked up one of the Zenith 900 DTT boxes early on in the process..Very good tuner. They have since come out with an improved box that has analog pass through (The ability to watch low power stations after the conversion)..I know the RCA boxes are at WalMart..


----------



## hookbill

My understanding is that Zenith gives the most bang for your buck.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15684305
> 
> 
> My understanding is that Zenith gives the most bang for your buck.



Hook,


I think I heard that Zenith is the way to go too. I will probably spend some time at the OTA HD forum before I make a decision. I know they had started a thread that rated the boxes when the coupons first came out.


Ray


----------



## Tim Lones

I misspoke..The Zenith is the one I have..Zenith I've heard nothing but good about..


----------



## Michael P 2341

The Zenith 901 is the one that has the analog pass-through. In every other way it's the same as a 900. I'm surprised that there are still 900's on the market. I got my 901 late Spring '08. I like it, it's easy to set-up and has the ability to have the broadcaster's set your view (now if only some of them start using that feature at their end).


----------



## Michael P 2341

Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.


There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15687965
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.
> 
> 
> There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.



I've had it on WEWS for a while now, with the news but I can't say I've actually been watching. I just took a look and all I noticed is that it's in SD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15687965
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.
> 
> 
> There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.



Those animated pop-ups are called snipes in the biz, and I find them annoying also. The manufacturers of graphics hardware now market the ability to do these snipes in their product brochures .


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15689391
> 
> 
> Those animated pop-ups are called snipes in the biz, and I find them annoying also. The manufacturers of graphics hardware now market the ability to do these snipes in their product brochures .



That's the most horrendous thing I've ever seen.


16 logos can be keyed simultaneously??






































Like a nightmare...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15687965
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that WEWS has started the horrible practice of running promo graphics on top of a program (just like TBS)? *I've seen it on both syndicated and ABC programs, and no it's definitly from WEWS not ABC.*
> 
> 
> There must be some financial incentive for WEWS to invest in the equipment to run these annoying and distracting promo's. I doubt a single viewer finds these popups informative.



I'll have to find the address, but if they're running it on ABC programming, you can complain to the network. ABC is supposed to be very opposed to on screen clutter(notice ABC HD is crap free) and they even don't like affiliates cluttering the screen. Maybe WEWS will get in trouble!!


----------



## toby10

..... looks like it will pass next week.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15691956
> 
> 
> ..... looks like it will pass next week.


 Link 


The Senate passed the bill again and set it up to win by a mere majority in the House. Passage seems imminent.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15692087
> 
> Link
> 
> 
> The Senate passed the bill again and set it up to win by a mere majority in the House. Passage seems imminent.



Yes, I heard about this the same day I read the link that it failed!


This will cause confusion amongst the vast majority of the country affecting many millions more then the 5 million that would have been affected the last time. Not to mention what it will cost tax payers if broadcasters are forced to keep analog on. I haven't read the link yet so I don't know how detailed the info is.


----------



## k2rj

Something happened to my cable signal Wednesday overnight which caused me to lose my RoadRunner connection, made my analog channels snowy and ghosty and caused me to lose some digital channels entirely. While stepping through the lineup (on my SA8300) last night, I noticed that stations on the digital tier (ch 100 and up) that were duplicated on the analog tier were actually in analog on the digital tier! For example, Fox News, which is on 352 as well as 38 actually had the analog signal mapped to 352. It would be interesting to know if this is just happening in the former Adelphia area (I believe I'm on the same system that Hookbill is on) or elsewhere too. I guess it kind of shocked me....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15692144
> 
> 
> While stepping through the lineup (on my SA8300) last night, I noticed that stations on the digital tier (ch 100 and up) that were duplicated on the analog tier were actually in analog on the digital tier! For example, Fox News, which is on 352 as well as 38 actually had the analog signal mapped to 352. It would be interesting to know if this is just happening in the former Adelphia area (I believe I'm on the same system that Hookbill is on) or elsewhere too. I guess it kind of shocked me....



Hate to burst your bubble on this one, but even though they are over 100 they are just mirror copies of the *analog* channel. They are not digital. And they don't take additional bandwith.


I wonder how many others think that those mirror channels are digital?


Oh and I hope everything is back to normal now.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15692087
> 
> Link
> 
> 
> The Senate passed the bill again and set it up to win by a mere majority in the House. Passage seems imminent.



Yes, it was the House vote I was referring too. Tracking shows it as a slam dunk. As the Cleveland/NEO market is usually the follower and late adopter of most anything, I'd guess most of the broadcasters in our market will wait till (or closer to) the June 12th date to shut down their analogs.










Hopefully I underestimate our market, but I doubt it.


----------



## nickdawg

^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!


This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.


----------



## bassguitarman

I have HD tier and still have mgmhd as of last night.

The APEX DTV box is junk but all HHGREGG carries.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15692707
> 
> 
> ^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!
> 
> 
> This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.



nickdawg, I'm totally on your side on this one on how you feel, but I gotta be honest even the day the second vote didn't go through they were saying they were going to try it again.


With only a majority vote needed, it's not going to fail. What surprises me is Congress knows this yet Republican house members voted against it despite what their Republican members in the Senate voted on.


Once again, it's going to happen. Unfortunately.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15692707
> 
> 
> ^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!
> 
> 
> This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.



Well, unless the Democrats have 70ish members impeached from the House, it seems terribly unlikely that this won't pass a simple majority vote.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15693106
> 
> 
> Well, unless the Democrats have 70ish members impeached from the House, it seems terribly unlikely that this won't pass a simple majority vote.




Heh heh.










That's exactly what happens in nickdawg's world.







It's located in the Great State of Denial!!


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15692819
> 
> 
> I have HD tier and still have mgmhd as of last night.
> 
> The APEX DTV box is junk but all HHGREGG carries.



My MGM HD mysteriously reappeared yesturday. I think they may have read my Wenesday's E-mail and realized they somehow accidentally blocked this channel from my box. I have not recieved a reply to my e-mail so I am only assuming they read it and reactted accordingly.



Oh. I also believe its a mistake to push this digital conversion out again. When I bought my first HD set it was originally suppose to convert over by the end of 2005. Come on already!


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15693392
> 
> 
> Oh. I also believe its a mistake to push this digital conversion out again. When I bought my first HD set it was originally suppose to convert over by the end of 2005. Come on already!
> 
> 
> Ray



Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.


Doesn't matter, first time it was pushed out by the broadcasters. This time it's being pushed out by maybe 7 million people, which is a shame considering the vast majority is ready and so are the broadcasters.


Does anyone know for sure if the clause to allow broadcasters to decide if they want to broadcast in digital only is in this bill?


----------



## yespage

Here is a question, would it be possible to force stations that are moving frequencies to meet the deadline and then optionally extend the deadline for the remaining stations? This way transitions can be made that will stop other stations from being prevented from switching.


Obviously, too late for this to be the option regarding the legislation.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15692707
> 
> 
> ^^NOT GOING TO PASS!!
> 
> 
> This is a Friday. Once the weekend is over, we'll be in February, with about 15 days to go. No way the date will be changed that close to the actual date.



Wanna bet?










Sadly it looks like it will pass.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15693788
> 
> 
> Here is a question, would it be possible to force stations that are moving frequencies to meet the deadline and then optionally extend the deadline for the remaining stations? This way transitions can be made that will stop other stations from being prevented from switching.
> 
> 
> Obviously, too late for this to be the option regarding the legislation.



That would make too much sense.


----------



## Rbuchina




hookbill said:


> Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> I'm not sure when exactly it was but it was at least a few years back. Either way I dont understand this need to push it back again. Perhaps it will stimilate the economy in some strange way.
> 
> 
> Ray


----------



## toby10




Rbuchina said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15693722
> 
> 
> Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> I'm not sure when exactly it was but it was at least a few years back. Either way I dont understand this need to push it back again. Perhaps it will stimilate the economy in some strange way.
> 
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a govt program to purchase 6.5 million 42" flat panel HDTV's for these needy people?
> 
> 
> THAT'S a stimulus!
Click to expand...


----------



## hookbill




toby10 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15694405
> 
> 
> 
> How about a govt program to purchase 6.5 million 42" flat panel HDTV's for these needy people?
> 
> 
> THAT'S a stimulus!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not with my money you don't!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze can you imagine if they did something like that. Instead of "A chicken in every pot" (FDR, for those who don't know) it would be "A flat screen in every living room!"
Click to expand...


----------



## hookbill




Rbuchina said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15693722
> 
> 
> Was it 2005? I thought it was 2007.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> I'm not sure when exactly it was but it was at least a few years back. Either way I dont understand this need to push it back again. Perhaps it will stimilate the economy in some strange way.
> 
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the FCC has to pay for the cost how does that stimulate the economy?
> 
> 
> Details, I want details!!!!
> 
> 
> I'm going to google now.
Click to expand...


----------



## Lighting Guy

I got my gov't coupons request in just before they ran out too. Just got them last week, and picked up the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT, which from what I've read, is exactly the same as the Zenith 901DTT that everyone has talked up, just different branding on the outside obviously. Haven't tested it yet, but I will soon. I chose Bestbuy because I had reward $ to use, and I don't like radioshack (I think the only place the Zenith box is sold now that CC is closed).


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15694608
> 
> 
> If the FCC has to pay for the cost how does that stimulate the economy?
> 
> 
> Details, I want details!!!!
> 
> 
> I'm going to google now.



This might just be crazy talk, but if the FCC, or the gov't, or whomever is going to cover the cost for the broadcasters to keep analog up until June, shouldn't they just put that money into the coupon program to satisfy the millions on the waitlist?!?!





















Then it may bring the number "unprepared" down to a reasonable level to NOT delay it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/15694644
> 
> 
> This might just be crazy talk, but if the FCC, or the gov't, or whomever is going to cover the cost for the broadcasters to keep analog up until June, shouldn't they just put that money into the coupon program to satisfy the millions on the waitlist?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it may bring the number "unprepared" down to a reasonable level to NOT delay it.



Nope, that wouldn't work. The morons who let their coupons expire or didn't apply until the last minute would still procrastinate, and further since they don't look at the news (obviously) they would be even more confused.


I can't find anything except the Post Article yespage posted, and that didn't even pop up in google.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/15694644
> 
> 
> This might just be crazy talk, but if the FCC, or the gov't, or whomever is going to cover the cost for the broadcasters to keep analog up until June, shouldn't they just put that money into the coupon program to satisfy the millions on the waitlist?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it may bring the number "unprepared" down to a reasonable level to NOT delay it.



Cuz you are not thinking like govt. Why do one when you can do both?


----------



## Lighting Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15693788
> 
> 
> Here is a question, would it be possible to force stations that are moving frequencies to meet the deadline and then optionally extend the deadline for the remaining stations? This way transitions can be made that will stop other stations from being prevented from switching.
> 
> 
> Obviously, too late for this to be the option regarding the legislation.



I think this is a pretty good idea.


I also think that if this is delayed, it will still cause more confusion. The people/companies that bought the old analog space will be itching to start using it, and as TV stations drop off analog, these companies may start using the airwaves... this could cause interference for others, etc. It's just easier for everyone to drop analog at the same time... say Feb. 17.


----------



## hookbill

I found another article here . This article clearly states that stations can independently go ahead with the digital transition.


Here's a partial:


The bill is essentially the same that previously passed the Senate, but with a few minor modifications from the House.


Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat, and Texas Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison worked out the compromise bill.

*Hutchison said the delay was voluntary and television stations could go ahead if they wished with digital transmission on Feb. 17 as scheduled and drop analog transmission.*


The measure now goes back to the House.


----------



## nickdawg




toby10 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/15694405
> 
> 
> 
> How about a govt program to purchase 6.5 million 42" flat panel HDTV's for these needy people?
> 
> 
> THAT'S a stimulus!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about a government program to purchase 6.5 million turds. That way these people can smoke them in hell.
> 
> 
> I'll even be willing to buy the 6.5 million turds myself!!
Click to expand...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15694284
> 
> 
> Wanna bet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly it looks like it will pass.



Every media outlet that talks about it still says the 17th. That's very close to being 17 days away. To delay it now would show absolute stupidity.


I'll have to get a list of names who voted in favor of this, so I know who *NOT* to vote for next time!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15694819
> 
> 
> ..............
> *Hutchison said the delay was voluntary and television stations could go ahead if they wished with digital transmission on Feb. 17 as scheduled and drop analog transmission.*
> 
> 
> The measure now goes back to the House.



Yeah. None of the delay bills suggested otherwise. The question is "will they" voluntarily shut off long before June 12.


----------



## toby10




nickdawg said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15694467
> 
> 
> 
> How about a government program to purchase 6.5 million turds. That way these people can smoke them in hell.
> 
> 
> I'll even be willing to buy the 6.5 million turds myself!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HA!
Click to expand...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15695591
> 
> 
> Every media outlet that talks about it still says the 17th. That's very close to being 17 days away. To delay it now would show absolute stupidity.
> 
> 
> I'll have to get a list of names who voted in favor of this, so I know who *NOT* to vote for next time!



Better yet, boycott the stations that DON'T flip the switch on Feb 17th.


----------



## hookbill

Exactly how much does 6.5 million turd cost?


----------



## berenga




hookbill said:


> toby10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "A chicken in every pot" (FDR, for those who don't know)
> 
> 
> Actually it was Herbert Hoover who first used this slogan in his 1928 presidential campaign, not FDR.
Click to expand...


----------



## hookbill




berenga said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15694587
> 
> 
> "A chicken in every pot" (FDR, for those who don't know)
> 
> 
> Actually it was Herbert Hoover who first used this slogan in his 1928 presidential campaign, not FDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After researching I found several sources that confirmed this. He (Hoover) said a "chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."
> 
> 
> I was always under the impression that FDR said this. Hoover was beat in the election against Roosevelt, and for some reason they named a dam after him. I think. That's Hoover, not Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I guess it's "a 42" flat screen in every house and a BMW in every garage?"
> 
> 
> Hey berenga, post correctly so you can get credit for catching my many mistakes.
Click to expand...


----------



## JJkizak

I'd prefer the ZO-6 Corvette with all options for grocery shopping and doing cicle burnouts around the turn-around. And I like a pot full of Mr. Chicken legs.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

I took a look at the SDV diagnostic screen on the SA 4250. There is no apparent activity there at all. I went through several pages and all I saw is zeros.


EDIT: Fixed Suv to SDV. Crackberry error.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15699200
> 
> 
> I took a look at the SUV diagnostic screen on the SA 4250. There is no apparent activity there at all. I went through several pages and all I saw is zeros.



Is there any category on one of the pages like "SDV Status" that says "SDV Enabled" or "SDV Not Enabled"?


When SDV was first enabled here, it just said "SDV Enabled" and everything else was zeros until they assigned a SDV frequency and started putting channels on SDV.


The ex-Comcast guy said a few pages back(if you can find it in all this OTA speculation) that SDV is supposed to go live in former Comcast sometime in February.


----------



## nickdawg

I notice that TWC added WVIZ Create on channel 365 today. If you ever wonder why I hate subchannels with such a passion, check out this channel. Right now there is no audio(probably a TWC mistake). But the picture is atrocious. Unwatchable.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLaz* /forum/post/15698518
> 
> 
> I e-mailed WJW, the Chief Engineer of WJW responded on 1/29 with the following:
> 
> 
> "We hope to have the equipment in place to transmit Seinfeld in HD sometime next week."
> 
> 
> So it looks like if all goes well WJW will be showing Seinfeld in HD very soon.



I found this over on the main HDTV forum about Seinfeld in HD syndication. It looks like WJW might be TV station number three in Cleveland to offer HD recording/playback on syndicated shows.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15699496
> 
> 
> Is there any category on one of the pages like "SDV Status" that says "SDV Enabled" or "SDV Not Enabled"?
> 
> 
> When SDV was first enabled here, it just said "SDV Enabled" and everything else was zeros until they assigned a SDV frequency and started putting channels on SDV.
> 
> 
> The ex-Comcast guy said a few pages back(if you can find it in all this OTA speculation) that SDV is supposed to go live in former Comcast sometime in February.




I only saw two things: either zero or no. Make that 3 I saw a few offs too.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15699879
> 
> 
> I only saw two things: either zero or no. Make that 3 I saw a few offs too.



Then it must not be authorized yet. Under Authorized, it says "Yes" here and the various fields are filled in with numbers.


Does it say anything about a Frequency? Here it says "SDB Frequency 573.000 MHz".


Also, just today I noticed that all the channels from 319-330 are SDV with the exception of Versus and the new MLB channel. These are all the channels that cost extra in the "Digital Sports Tier". Looks like SDV is in full swing here. Now if only it moves to your area too!! C'mon TWC!! Don't let us down(like usual!!)


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15699697
> 
> 
> ........I found this over on the main HDTV forum about Seinfeld in HD syndication. It looks like WJW might be TV station number three in Cleveland to offer HD recording/playback on syndicated shows.



I'm curious........ what's the difference on how they show non-HD recorded shows now and the future "enhancement"?


I assumed we were already getting SD shows upconverted to digital/HD now?


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15699973
> 
> 
> Then it must not be authorized yet. Under Authorized, it says "Yes" here and the various fields are filled in with numbers.
> 
> 
> Does it say anything about a Frequency? Here it says "SDB Frequency 573.000 MHz".
> 
> 
> Also, just today I noticed that all the channels from 319-330 are SDV with the exception of Versus and the new MLB channel. These are all the channels that cost extra in the "Digital Sports Tier". Looks like SDV is in full swing here. Now if only it moves to your area too!! C'mon TWC!! Don't let us down(like usual!!)



Geeze, nickdawg. What part of "no" and "0" did you not understand?

















I remember the authorization part, I'll double check it in a bit but I really don't recall even seeing a yes there. I went through the entire thing searching for anything that I felt showed any life at all. I couldn't find any.


I did see some of the channels you mentioned a while back in the 900's but they appeared to be mirror channels, not SDV. I see nothing these days. And those channels I saw in the 900's were also available on my DVR's which you are well aware does not have SDV.


I don't think they have done squat around here and there is only 1 reason: They need to figure out what to do about SARA. Apparently they can't run Navigator and SARA at the same time and they can't convert SARA to Navigator.


I'd really like to see the box converted so I can see Navigator in action. Of course I only have an STB not a DVR so I wouldn't be doing any DVR comparisons.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15698128
> 
> 
> I'd prefer the ZO-6 Corvette with all options for grocery shopping and doing cicle burnouts around the turn-around. And I like a pot full of Mr. Chicken legs.
> 
> JJK



Mr. Chicken is pretty good! I'd take the vette as well, heck yes!


But my wife would make me sell it. Insurance on that thing would be through the roof and I get a speeding ticket about once every 5 years. Even at 56 I'd still be up on the freeway doing 130 mph in that baby.


FWIW, my driving record is clean I beat my last ticket!


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, I forgot to mention if I didn't mention in my post after that guy in ex comcast area wrote, I think he's a TiVo owner. Anyway he said a lead tech told him that. Well, a lead tech told me in early in early 2007 that the channel change was going to happen in May. We all know how that worked out.










nickdawg: glass is 1/2 full, buys into anything TW tells him.


hookbill: doesn't believe a word TW (or any cable company) say's until he sees it.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15695591
> 
> 
> Every media outlet that talks about it still says the 17th. That's very close to being 17 days away. To delay it now would show absolute stupidity.
> 
> 
> I'll have to get a list of names who voted in favor of this, so I know who *NOT* to vote for next time!



Well then welcome to the Republican Party, nickdawg!


Who would have known that all your ranting about GWB, FNC and other lefty targets was simply a matter of, "The nickdawg doth protest too much, methinks."


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15700627
> 
> 
> Well then welcome to the Republican Party, nickdawg!
> 
> 
> Who would have known that all your ranting about GWB, FNC and other lefty targets was simply a matter of, "The nickdawg doth protest too much, methinks."



"Nickdawg: deep down inside you know he's right!"


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15699697
> 
> 
> I notice that TWC added WVIZ Create on channel 365 today. If you ever wonder why I hate subchannels with such a passion, check out this channel. Right now there is no audio(probably a TWC mistake). But the picture is atrocious. Unwatchable.
> 
> ==========================================================
> 
> I found this over on the main HDTV forum about Seinfeld in HD syndication. It looks like WJW might be TV station number three in Cleveland to offer HD recording/playback on syndicated shows.



WVIZ-DT has been having audio issues off and on (see the post a few pages back where somone was hearing WNCX insted of WVIZ's main channel audio). I experienced no audio on 25.1 the other day myself. Create and Ohio Channel did have audio then. This is from the OTA signal.


OK WEWS is one I know has syndicated HD, who is the second station?


----------



## hookbill

Just to satisfy my own curiosity I went and attempted to hunt down a couple of the things nickdawg talked about. In regards to "frequency" there were many places it was located at but the bottom line on the MAIN SDV screen is shows 0. It shows 0 cable card channels. It shows that SDV is not active, however it is ready to activate, to activate call 877...........the TW CS #.


It would appear that it is perfectly capable of receiving SDV, but there is nothing going on and according to the history, there never has been.


In regards to the WVIZ subchannel, I saw that on my DVR as well. If the sound is dead usually that's a broadcast issue. It could be your cable cards as well, try changing channels if you are using a cable card box. That seems to work for me on the rare occasions it happens, and it has never been a problem with a recording.


The majority of you probably arn't interested but I did finally get guide data for MLB Network. Apparently the fine folks at the now farmed out TiVo customer service thought I said 362, not 326. Anyway 2 days after I called them back it was added on. Oddly enough I only got a message on one box about it, though it was added on both boxes guides.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15692277
> 
> 
> Oh and I hope everything is back to normal now.



Yes, the tech came (on schedule!) yesterday afternoon and determined that the problem was from the tap outside, so he called the lineman. He arrived later in the afternoon and discovered a loose connector a few houses up the street (all underground utilities here, so he had to dig out a few ground boxes! I had pity on the tech and used my snowblower to open up the one in our tree lawn before he came... he was sure thankful!)


By 5 p.m. my RoadRunner service was up and running and my VOIP phone rang and all the TV stuff looked OK.... *BUT*.... after our company left last night I went to watch a program from the DVR and got the "Not Authorized" message. I then checked and found the HD+ tier was also missing. So I called CS and was on the phone for an hour with the first dufus who, after discovering that all the extras from my account had been wiped, wanted to send out a technician! Tuesday! After going round-and-round with him and finally getting cut off, I called again and this time got a nice lady who didn't understand how my account got FUBAR'd but added everything back using the TWC codes (instead of the old Adelphia ones) and cut my bill by about $10 in the process. It took her a little over a half hour to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, but when she was finished everything was back to normal and all my wife's recordings were still there.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15700532
> 
> 
> I'm curious........ what's the difference on how they show non-HD recorded shows now and the future "enhancement"?
> 
> 
> I assumed we were already getting SD shows upconverted to digital/HD now?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



To show true HD(like WKYC and WEWS) they need different recording equipment, bigger hard drives







, and different reception equipment to receive the HD feed of the show off the satellite.


The difference is huge. What you are watching right now is the SD analog channel, just upconverted to 720p/1080i. But shows like Seinfeld, 2.5 Men, Raymond and most current syndicated comedies dramas are available in HD. With the proper equipment, we would be watching these shows in HD, not SD upconvert.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15701831
> 
> 
> 
> OK WEWS is one I know has syndicated HD, who is the second station?



WKYC---_Dr. Phil, Entertainment Tonight_


----------



## hookbill

Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy is also in HD. I believe Who Wants to be a Millionaire on WOIO is in HD as well.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15704261
> 
> 
> Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy is also in HD. *I believe Who Wants to be a Millionaire on WOIO is in HD as well.*



























Last time I checked, nothing outside CBS network programming on WOIO is HD.


Wheel and Jeopardy have been HD on WEWS since fall 2006, that was the known channel. #2 is WKYC this year. WVIZ might actually be #3, since I've seen PBS HD programming in HD outside of primetime. Plus some promotional commercials are HD on WVIZ.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15704294
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I checked, nothing outside CBS network programming on WOIO is HD.
> 
> 
> Wheel and Jeopardy have been HD on WEWS since fall 2006, that was the known channel. #2 is WKYC this year. WVIZ might actually be #3, since I've seen PBS HD programming in HD outside of primetime. Plus some promotional commercials are HD on WVIZ.



I said "I think." That means I'm not sure. I checked and you're right it isn't in HD. I wasn't sure.


I don't see any syndicated programs that indicate HD. Their news however is in HD and I see some soaps that are listed in the daytime as HD. They are in fact part of CBS programming.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15704417
> 
> 
> I said "I think." That means I'm not sure. I checked and you're right it isn't in HD. I wasn't sure.
> 
> 
> I don't see any syndicated programs that indicate HD. Their news however is in HD and I see some soaps that are listed in the daytime as HD. They are in fact part of CBS programming.



According to Titan TV, King of Queens tonight at 11:35 and 12:05 is listed as HD. Also, the program guide has shown the WUAB syndication airings of 2.5 Men as HDTV. They are not.


"The Young and the Restless" has been HD for years. The first and only HD soap. I've always wondered why none of the others have picked up on that.


----------



## JJkizak

I just watched the 3D previews OTA tonight on 3.1 news and they were balls-ass outstanding although the glasses darkened the picture somewhat but your eyes adjusted. I like it but if they could only get rid of the glasses.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15704718
> 
> 
> I just watched the 3D previews OTA tonight on 3.1 news and they were balls-ass outstanding although the glasses darkened the picture somewhat but your eyes adjusted. I like it but if they could only get rid of the glasses.
> 
> JJK



Where do you get the glasses?


----------



## nickdawg

What glasses?


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15704718
> 
> 
> I just watched the 3D previews OTA tonight on 3.1 news



the depth of this scene was impressive especially when you'd move your head

but couldn't watch an entire movie with those glasses on!


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15704870
> 
> 
> Where do you get the glasses?



customer service desk at K-Mart...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/15705488
> 
> 
> customer service desk at K-Mart...



Thanks!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15705528
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Giant Eagle also has them. Look for the Sobe water display.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15703730
> 
> 
> To show true HD(like WKYC and WEWS) they need different recording equipment, bigger hard drives
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and different reception equipment to receive the HD feed of the show off the satellite.
> 
> 
> The difference is huge. What you are watching right now is the SD analog channel, just upconverted to 720p/1080i. But shows like Seinfeld, 2.5 Men, Raymond and most current syndicated comedies dramas are available in HD. With the proper equipment, we would be watching these shows in HD, not SD upconvert.



But wouldn't that require that the show was filmed in HD? If not filmed in HD then it's all upconverted 480 to 720/1080, no?


Or am I not understanding this (quite possible)?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15707350
> 
> 
> But wouldn't that require that the show was filmed in HD? If not filmed in HD then it's all upconverted 480 to 720/1080, no?
> 
> 
> Or am I not understanding this (quite possible)?



I'm not the most scientific mind on this board but think of how we use to record music. We did it on tape, then when CD's came out they transfered the tapes do digital sound. Now they even have a way to wipe them clean so you don't hear the tape hiss.


I think it works the same way with HD, i.e., I saw "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" in HD on HDnet Movies, where I guarantee everything is in HD. No way was it filmed in HD.


Now did it look as good as something new? No. Just like the old CD's that were recorded off of tape it had flaws in it, but no doubt it was HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15706068
> 
> 
> Giant Eagle also has them. Look for the Sobe water display.



Tanglewood square has a Kmart Jr and a Giant Eagle. I'm heading out now.


Thanks again, both of you.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15707452
> 
> 
> I'm not the most scientific mind on this board but think of how we use to record music. We did it on tape, then when CD's came out they transfered the tapes do digital sound. Now they even have a way to wipe them clean so you don't hear the tape hiss.
> 
> 
> I think it works the same way with HD, i.e., I saw "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" in HD on HDnet Movies, where I guarantee everything is in HD. No way was it filmed in HD.
> 
> 
> Now did it look as good as something new? No. Just like the old CD's that were recorded off of tape it had flaws in it, but no doubt it was HD.



So they are re-mastering them in some way, not just upconverting them.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15707452
> 
> 
> I think it works the same way with HD, i.e., I saw "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" in HD on HDnet Movies, where I guarantee everything is in HD. No way was it filmed in HD.
> 
> 
> Now did it look as good as something new? No. Just like the old CD's that were recorded off of tape it had flaws in it, but no doubt it was HD.



Movies in that era were shot on film. Film has its flaws, but resolution isn't one of them. Old movies can look great in HD without any fancy processing. The resolution of the original film is still "better" than 1920x1080. So, in a sense, it was filmed in HD.







(I put "better" in quotes because it's not a perfect comparison. Film is not digital, and the two have very different characteristics.)


----------



## JJkizak

Got my glasses at Giant Eagle in Twinsburg.

JJK


----------



## JJkizak

Jim Gilliland:

Very true. However it depends on what format they used to create the HD weather it was 90mm, 35mm, 16mm, Super 8. If they used 16 mm or Super 8 you will get a preponderance of film grain.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15707756
> 
> 
> Jim Gilliland:
> 
> Very true. However it depends on what format they used to create the HD weather it was 90mm, 35mm, 16mm, Super 8. If they used 16 mm or Super 8 you will get a preponderance of film grain.
> 
> JJK



I don't think Cuckoo's Nest was filmed in 16 mm or Super 8, but 2 things I remember: 1. Seeing what looked to me as grain, and 2. Dolby 5.1 sound light was on but nothing out of rear speakers.


I usually don't do this but what does the weather have to do with it????


----------



## JJkizak

hookbill:

What I should have explained is there were an awful lot of 35mm films reduced and copied to 16mm for projector viewing in the old days. I have seen some DVD's (that I purchased from Best Buy) that were atrocious with faded colors and huge noise components---"Sound of Music" being one of them, viewed on a 1080P tv with and upconvert player. I just assumed somebody in Tiawan made the copy for Best Buy.

Well if the weather is real cold the film does a lot of quivering. Don't believe that because I'm just funnin.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15708772
> 
> 
> hookbill:
> 
> What I should have explained is there were an awful lot of 35mm films reduced and copied to 16mm for projector viewing in the old days. I have seen some DVD's (that I purchased from Best Buy) that were atrocious with faded colors and huge noise components---"Sound of Music" being one of them, viewed on a 1080P tv with and upconvert player. I just assumed somebody in Tiawan made the copy for Best Buy.
> 
> Well if the weather is real cold the film does a lot of quivering. Don't believe that because I'm just funnin.
> 
> JJK



Back in the old days of syndication distribution, it seemed that everyone was distributing their shows via horrible 16mm prints. I can't tell you the number of times I've changed the channel because I couldn't stand to watch those blurry, washed-out 16mm copies. It's so much cheaper to distribute contant digitally now, but coming up with a decent digital copy of an old classis means locating a good 35mm original and paying to have it cleaned up and re-transferred. In the end I think it's worth it though.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15692277
> 
> 
> Hate to burst your bubble on this one, but even though they are over 100 they are just mirror copies of the *analog* channel. They are not digital. And they don't take additional bandwith.
> 
> 
> I wonder how many others think that those mirror channels are digital?
> 
> 
> Oh and I hope everything is back to normal now.



You are/were having a low signal condition and you need to contact service ( maybe got some water into your connection)


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15709311
> 
> 
> Back in the old days of syndication distribution, it seemed that everyone was distributing their shows via horrible 16mm prints. I can't tell you the number of times I've changed the channel because I couldn't stand to watch those blurry, washed-out 16mm copies. It's so much cheaper to distribute contant digitally now, but coming up with a decent digital copy of an old classis means locating a good 35mm original and paying to have it cleaned up and re-transferred. In the end I think it's worth it though.



and a lot of the old shows were done live and 'filmed' by kinescope which involved filming off a monitor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15709658
> 
> 
> and a lot of the old shows were done live and 'filmed' by kinescope which involved filming off a monitor
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope



That would be real old shows like The Honeymooners. In the 60's I believe everything was video taped.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15707350
> 
> 
> But wouldn't that require that the show was filmed in HD? If not filmed in HD then it's all upconverted 480 to 720/1080, no?
> 
> 
> Or am I not understanding this (quite possible)?


_Seinfeld_ was filmed in HD. Not actually HD, but it was filmed on 35mm. Film has a higher resolution than HD, so old movies or shows that were filmed can be shown in HD, and they look pretty good in most cases.


With Seinfeld, we will also be getting it in 16x9, because of the way it was filmed. When it was shown in the 90s, there wasn't a NBC HD, so the only versions shown on TV were 4:3 cut. With the new released HD episodes, the sides of the picture were "opened" to reveal more of the left and right of the scene, but some of the top and bottom were cut as a result. Of course that's open to debate over what the original aspect ratio is.


ME, I like the HD episodes on TBS and I hope they show up on WJW soon. I don't mind the cutting of the top and bottom, since the result is a full 16:9 picture.


----------



## ajstan99

Hi Hook - just saw this the other day and couldn't help but think you'd appreciate it.










I have to confess that I'm guily of owning #1 & #2 (Blackberry and Bluetooth headset).


You'll enjoy #3:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039226...ch_JerkGadgets 


OK, need to duck in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .









_*TiVo*


This is really only a problem if you must go on and on and on about it. And we know you must.


TiVo undoubtedly improves your ability to watch TV. It liberates you from the tyranny of network schedules. It lets you rewind live TV. It even goes out and finds new shows you'll like. So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your TV-watching, but for God's sake, please stop yapping about it in everyone's ears.

*Here's why:* It's TV. Which is to say, it's just not that important. It's not a hobby, it's not self-improving and it's not going to cure cancer. Practice won't make you better at it, and no matter how good your gadgets, the difference between seeing who's dancing with the stars now and you know, not, is ... hold on ... carry the one ... oh look at that: Not a big deal at all.

*Cool if:* You enjoy it quietly at home.

*Not cool if:* You talk about it like it's the product of successful stem-cell research._


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15710898
> 
> 
> Hi Hook - just saw this the other day and couldn't help but think you'd appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to confess that I'm guily of owning #1 & #2 (Blackberry and Bluetooth headset).
> 
> 
> You'll enjoy #3:
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28039226...ch_JerkGadgets
> 
> 
> OK, need to duck in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*TiVo*
> 
> 
> This is really only a problem if you must go on and on and on about it. And we know you must.
> 
> 
> TiVo undoubtedly improves your ability to watch TV. It liberates you from the tyranny of network schedules. It lets you rewind live TV. It even goes out and finds new shows you'll like. So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your TV-watching, but for God's sake, please stop yapping about it in everyone's ears.
> 
> *Here's why:* It's TV. Which is to say, it's just not that important. It's not a hobby, it's not self-improving and it's not going to cure cancer. Practice won't make you better at it, and no matter how good your gadgets, the difference between seeing who's dancing with the stars now and you know, not, is ... hold on ... carry the one ... oh look at that: Not a big deal at all.
> 
> *Cool if:* You enjoy it quietly at home.
> 
> *Not cool if:* You talk about it like it's the product of successful stem-cell research._



Not surprising.










I also have a Blackberry and a Bluetooth headset. Anybody want to make something out of it?


----------



## hookbill

I know the game hasn't started yet, but I can't tell you how impressed I am with the broadcast so far. Picture is crystal clear perfect, and it's 1080i and I have a 720p native set with my DVR set to convert to 720p.


That's how you talk about it, without talking about it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15709658
> 
> 
> 
> _*TiVo*
> 
> 
> This is really only a problem if you must go on and on and on about it. And we know you must.
> 
> 
> TiVo undoubtedly improves your ability to watch TV. It liberates you from the tyranny of network schedules. It lets you rewind live TV. It even goes out and finds new shows you'll like. So, go on with your bad self and enjoy your TV-watching, but for God's sake, please stop yapping about it in everyone's ears.
> 
> *Here's why:* It's TV. Which is to say, it's just not that important. It's not a hobby, it's not self-improving and it's not going to cure cancer. Practice won't make you better at it, and no matter how good your gadgets, the difference between seeing who's dancing with the stars now and you know, not, is ... hold on ... carry the one ... oh look at that: Not a big deal at all.
> 
> *Cool if:* You enjoy it quietly at home.
> 
> *Not cool if:* You talk about it like it's the product of successful stem-cell research._



I totally agree!!!




























IT'S JUST TV FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! If the TV ever ran my life that much, I'd be scared. I'd probably just throw it out at that point!




























I turn it on and watch TV. Let's just leave it at that, OK?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lighting Guy* /forum/post/15694615
> 
> 
> I got my gov't coupons request in just before they ran out too. Just got them last week, and picked up the Insignia NS-DXA1-APT, which from what I've read, is exactly the same as the Zenith 901DTT that everyone has talked up, just different branding on the outside obviously.



Yep, the Insignia APT model is indeed the Zenith DTT901 in different name.


The pre-APT Insignia is the 900.


I have one of each, and swear by them, as do most TV engineers. I have yet to see one TV station with video explaining converter boxes that doesn't have a Zenith/Insignia box in the video.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15711192
> 
> 
> I totally agree!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IT'S JUST TV FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!! If the TV ever ran my life that much, I'd be scared. I'd probably just throw it out at that point!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I turn it on and watch TV. Let's just leave it at that, OK?



One of the beauties of TiVo is that for the most part, it runs off by itself simplifying your TV life. I get what I want with very little fuss or muss, and I have Auto Record Wish Lists (ARWLs) that I set up 3 years ago still picking up shows without my intervention today.


Of course, I am on TiVo Community Forum, have been since 2003, and have met hundreds of TCF members over those 5-plus years.


But I can't remember the last time I posted a message actually about my TiVo box.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15679336
> 
> 
> I don't know if I get that channel or not. When's the next Cavs game? I'll give it a look.
> 
> 
> Also you will notice we still don't have guide data for channel 326! Inundated and I both sent emails to Tribune Media, and I have a new case number.



Since you wrote this, they finally got MLB on 326, and other stuff that's changed.


As far as FS Ohio/426 is concerned, I get it on my 8000HD, but it's still the HD Bonus channel in real life...until whenever FS converts the local arm of it to 24/7 HD/upconvert.


Whenever that is.


I don't know if my own TiVo has it, since it's an SD S2 standalone, and I blocked out all the 400-series HD channels so it doesn't go off and try to record something it can't get.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15713058
> 
> 
> One of the beauties of TiVo is that for the most part, it runs off by itself simplifying your TV life. I get what I want with very little fuss or muss, and I have Auto Record Wish Lists (ARWLs) that I set up 3 years ago still picking up shows without my intervention today.
> 
> 
> Of course, I am on TiVo Community Forum, have been since 2003, and have met hundreds of TCF members over those 5-plus years.
> 
> 
> But I can't remember the last time I posted a message actually about my TiVo box.



My TV life is simple. I turn on the TV and watch. End of story. I guess some people like Hookbill-(didn't you say that you always see weather warnings late because you record stuff?). See, I don't record anything unless I have to. IF I'm not home or if two shows are on at the same time, then I record. Any other time I watch the shows live as they happen. What can I say, I *like* watching shows as they air. Like the Office and 30 Rock and ER on Thursdays. It's no fun recording it and watching it some other time. ER and the Office are not as fun on Saturday afternoon


----------



## hookbill

To each his own. I enjoy time shifting, that way I see many more hours of television that I would not be able to see. That's why I'm a month behind on television, but eventually I will catch up.


I have whole series of programs recorded and stored that I haven't even looked at like "The Starter Wife" and "Legend of the Seeker." I'll save those for Summer instead of watching some dumb reality show.


As far as the article goes, that's one person's opinion and they are entitled to it. I know there is no reason for me to go on and on about it and quite honestly I don't think I do unless I'm defending it against an inferior product.


That's my one person's opinion. And those of us who have one think it isn't just television.


I'll stop here as to go on further would be launching off on another rant.


----------



## yespage

Without a DVR, it'd be much harder to catch all the classics on TCM. January was Jack Lemmon month, and I got to record a ton of Jack Lemmon movies.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15714420
> 
> 
> To each his own. I enjoy time shifting, that way I see many more hours of television that I would not be able to see. That's why I'm a month behind on television, but eventually I will catch up.
> 
> 
> I have whole series of programs recorded and stored that I haven't even looked at like "The Starter Wife" and "Legend of the Seeker." I'll save those for Summer instead of watching some dumb reality show.
> 
> 
> As far as the article goes, that's one person's opinion and they are entitled to it. I know there is no reason for me to go on and on about it and quite honestly I don't think I do unless I'm defending it against an inferior product.
> 
> 
> That's my one person's opinion. *And those of us who have one think it isn't just television.
> *
> 
> I'll stop here as to go on further would be launching off on another rant.



It's not TV, It's HBO. errr, umm, I mean Tivo.
























Well, that's out of my system, back to normal conversation. For me, the DVR is for shows I wouldn't get to see otherwise. Not for "time shifting". I used to do that for shows I watch on cable, but since I stopped watching USA, I have more free time. I still have series recordings for "In Plain Sight", "Burn Notice", "Monk" and "Psych" on USA HD. I'll start watching those again once USA HD returns.










And "The Starter Wife", seriously?







C'mon. Save the time and disk space, that chick show blows!! The flat chested redhead isn't as funny as she was in "Will & Grace". I've checked that show out on Universal HD, not worthy of watching weekly.


"Legend of the Seeker", never even cared to find out what it was. I strongly hope you didn't record that on WBNX HD. It is not HD, at least here in Cleveland.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15715226
> 
> 
> It's not TV, It's HBO. errr, umm, I mean Tivo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's out of my system, back to normal conversation. For me, the DVR is for shows I wouldn't get to see otherwise. Not for "time shifting". I used to do that for shows I watch on cable, but since I stopped watching USA, I have more free time. I still have series recordings for "In Plain Sight", "Burn Notice", "Monk" and "Psych" on USA HD. I'll start watching those again once USA HD returns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And "The Starter Wife", seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon. Save the time and disk space, that chick show blows!! The flat chested redhead isn't as funny as she was in "Will & Grace". I've checked that show out on Universal HD, not worthy of watching weekly.
> 
> 
> "Legend of the Seeker", never even cared to find out what it was. I strongly hope you didn't record that on WBNX HD. It is not HD, at least here in Cleveland.



The very fact that you use your DVR in such limited capacity not only explains why you have such negative feelings, it also reinforces my point about lack of reliability of the SA 8300.


Now I got that out of my system. As far as televisions shows if I don't like it I will delete it. I'm just stating what I use my DVR for. And in regards to diskspace unlike you I'm not limited to just 20 hours of HD recording time, so I have plenty of room to do whatever I choose.


----------



## Bill Harrison

Quick stupid local question: Anyone have a QAM lineup available for Time warner NEO, especially the akron area? Watching the game last night with poor reception cutting in and out is enough to make me change over from ATSC, I might only get the same channels, but atleast I can count on them!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/15715647
> 
> 
> Quick stupid local question: Anyone have a QAM lineup available for Time warner NEO, especially the akron area? Watching the game last night with poor reception cutting in and out is enough to make me change over from ATSC, I might only get the same channels, but atleast I can count on them!



It's not a stupid question. I assume you want to change from OTA to cable?


If you do your television should be able to map out the local HD's for you, however TW is noted for moving their HD channels around on their QAM so there is no set list of channels. You would have to rescan from time to time.


----------



## Tim Lones

Heres the lineup I have in Canton. (May Change at any moment and may not be the same as Akron)


3-1 WKYC

3-2 Weather Plus

5-1 WEWS

8-1 WJW

19-1 WOIO

19-2 Weather Now

43-1 WUAB

49-1 WEAO


78-1 WVIZ

78-2 Ohio Channel (WVIZ)

78-3 WBNX

78-4 WVIZ World

78-5 WVIZ Create


94-29 North Canton City Schools Channel 11

94-31 New Franklin/Manchester/Coventry Community Billboard (Akron Area)

94-32 Green Community Channel

94-33 Lake Local Schools


106-3 Discovery Channel

112-6 Starz! Comedy

112-7 MLB Network

112-9 Big Ten Network


122-315 On Demand Promos

123-14 WIVM-52 Canton

125-7 History Channel Spanish

125-14 Catholic Familyland


----------



## Bill Harrison




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15715855
> 
> 
> Heres the lineup I have in Canton. (May Change at any moment and may not be the same as Akron)
> 
> 
> 3-1 WKYC
> 
> 3-2 Weather Plus
> 
> 5-1 WEWS
> 
> 8-1 WJW
> 
> 19-1 WOIO
> 
> 19-2 Weather Now
> 
> 43-1 WUAB
> 
> 49-1 WEAO
> 
> 
> 78-1 WVIZ
> 
> 78-2 Ohio Channel (WVIZ)
> 
> 78-3 WBNX
> 
> 78-4 WVIZ World
> 
> 78-5 WVIZ Create
> 
> 
> 94-29 North Canton City Schools Channel 11
> 
> 94-31 New Franklin/Manchester/Coventry Community Billboard (Akron Area)
> 
> 94-32 Green Community Channel
> 
> 94-33 Lake Local Schools
> 
> 
> 106-3 Discovery Channel
> 
> 112-6 Starz! Comedy
> 
> 112-7 MLB Network
> 
> 112-9 Big Ten Network
> 
> 
> 122-315 On Demand Promos
> 
> 123-14 WIVM-52 Canton
> 
> 125-7 History Channel Spanish
> 
> 125-14 Catholic Familyland



Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.


Thanks for taking the time to list those!


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/15716629
> 
> 
> Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.
> 
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to list those!



No problem..i don't know that the cable channels will be arouind forever..I have a digital set,(Not HD) but I think the locals are in HD with their major programming..


A while back, I was getting 9 Steubenville, 13 Toledo and 17 Fox Youngstown on QAM but those are gone..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/15716629
> 
> 
> Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.
> 
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to list those!



That list will not be permanent. I'm surprised to see STARS, I doubt it will be there long.


As far as HD goes, no they are not all HD. TW doesn't offer most of those channels in HD. Best I can tell is locals only unless Big Ten is in there, and I kind of doubt that.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15716711
> 
> 
> That list will not be permanent. I'm surprised to see STARS, I doubt it will be there long.
> 
> 
> As far as HD goes, no they are not all HD. TW doesn't offer most of those channels in HD. Best I can tell is locals only unless Big Ten is in there, and I kind of doubt that.



Starz has been around the last 3-4 days at least..I was surprised to see MLB and Big Ten..but as you said..Don't expect them to be around forever..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15715263
> 
> 
> The very fact that you use your DVR in such limited capacity not only explains why you have such negative feelings, it also reinforces my point about lack of reliability of the SA 8300.



No, the SA 8300 is reliable enough. That's not a problem. See, I could go out and spend hundreds on a Tivo(and all the other services that go along with it) and my recording schedule wouldn't change. Only difference is there might be more crap recording (that has to be deleted) because of that "search and record" feature Innundated mentioned yesterday.



> Quote:
> Now I got that out of my system. As far as televisions shows if I don't like it I will delete it. I'm just stating what I use my DVR for. And in regards to diskspace unlike you I'm not limited to just 20 hours of HD recording time, so I have plenty of room to do whatever I choose.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15717527
> 
> 
> No, the SA 8300 is reliable enough. That's not a problem. See, I could go out and spend hundreds on a Tivo(and all the other services that go along with it) and my recording schedule wouldn't change. Only difference is there might be more crap recording (that has to be deleted) because of that "search and record" feature Innundated mentioned yesterday.




nickdawg, you are hilarious!!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15717587
> 
> 
> nickdawg, you are hilarious!!!!



No, I'm right!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15715855
> 
> *78-5 WVIZ Create
> *



Are you getting any audio on WVIZ Create? This channel just showed up last week. Before that, it was another digital simulcast of Channel 8, and it had audio. Then WVIZ started and there is no audio. I'm trying to figure out if it is TWC's local problem or WVIZ's problem. Thanks.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/15716629
> 
> 
> Well, thats better than I expected. All those are in HD? And if I read online correctly, all you need is "Basic" cable to get these? After missing half the game last night to my poor signal I get cut outs on 3.1 all the time, I am willing to pay for basic cable to get those in well.
> 
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to list those!



Unless I'm mistaken, WKYC will be moving to 17, which should be much easier to receive OTA than WKYC's awful location of 2 on the VHF band. If that is the case, you may just want to wait a tad bit longer for the move, if that happens on the Feb. 17 date. Worst case... wait to June, if I'm not mistaken... _(that's an opening for someone else to correct me if I'm wrong







)_.


It is this transition that has kept me from getting a better antenna... the higher likelihood of being able to get WKYC when it moves to its permanent frequency.


----------



## Bill Harrison




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15718670
> 
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken, WKYC will be moving to 17, which should be much easier to receive OTA than WKYC's awful location of 2 on the VHF band. If that is the case, you may just want to wait a tad bit longer for the move, if that happens on the Feb. 17 date. Worst case... wait to June, if I'm not mistaken... _(that's an opening for someone else to correct me if I'm wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )_.
> 
> 
> It is this transition that has kept me from getting a better antenna... the higher likelihood of being able to get WKYC when it moves to its permanent frequency.



Thats interesting, I did not know that. So Just a couple weeks, and things may sort themselves out? I guess I could postpone the cable till then and try it. I have to call in the morning and cancel I scheduled for a friday hookup. Thanks for the info, the QAM sounded a bit dodgy, with channels moving around and changing all the time, ATSC is so close if I could only get 3 in better!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/15719362
> 
> 
> Thats interesting, I did not know that. So Just a couple weeks, and things may sort themselves out? I guess I could postpone the cable till then and try it. I have to call in the morning and cancel I scheduled for a friday hookup. Thanks for the info, the QAM sounded a bit dodgy, with channels moving around and changing all the time, ATSC is so close if I could only get 3 in better!



......but it may not happen till June 12th either. Also, couldn't the move to 17 be predicated upon ch 3 finishing and equipping it's new tower?

IOW: Couldn't they continue with their not-so-great freq as 3.1 after the analog shutoff and not move to 17 till much later in the year (or later)?


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15719499
> 
> 
> ......but it may not happen till June 12th either. Also, couldn't the move to 17 be predicated upon ch 3 finishing and equipping it's new tower?
> 
> IOW: Couldn't they continue with their not-so-great freq as 3.1 after the analog shutoff and not move to 17 till much later in the year (or later)?



Good question. I haven't got the slightest clue.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bill Harrison* /forum/post/15719362
> 
> 
> Thats interesting, I did not know that. So Just a couple weeks, and things may sort themselves out? I guess I could postpone the cable till then and try it. I have to call in the morning and cancel I scheduled for a friday hookup. Thanks for the info, the QAM sounded a bit dodgy, with channels moving around and changing all the time, ATSC is so close if I could only get 3 in better!



As of now, it's happening 2/17/09. That's 15 days.


Otherwise, I'd get an HDTV cable box. Far superior to QAM. There's a set, unchanging lineup-no tricks. Also, you'll all kinds of great features like an interactive program guide, all the local HD channels plus several cable channels. And once SDV starts, there will be even more HDTV channels. Totally worth it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15719499
> 
> 
> ......but it may not happen till June 12th either. Also, couldn't the move to 17 be predicated upon ch 3 finishing and equipping it's new tower?



That's correct, although I don't think they'll wait until June 12th unless they have to in order to avoid interfering with someone else.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15720791
> 
> 
> That's correct, although I don't think they'll wait until June 12th unless they have to in order to avoid interfering with someone else.



If that is the case, then, in my opinion, it would be worth waiting for the transition instead of going the cable route. Gone this far waiting... what is another half to five months. I just hope that Fox doesn't become hard to get with their moronic decision to go VHF on us.

_Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna._


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15723567
> 
> _Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna._



I have been told previously in this forum that FOX 8 is planning on boosting their signal to make sure it's still accessible when they switch to VHS.


----------



## SteveC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15723567
> 
> 
> I just hope that Fox doesn't become hard to get with their moronic decision to go VHF on us.
> 
> _Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna._



It's not moronic if you are the one paying the electric bill. The higher the frequency the higher the power needed to cover the same area. The savings are significant. I talked to their engineer shortly after they came online with their digital signal and he knew way back then that they were going to go back to channel 8 after the transition. He was astounded as to how much extra power was required to broadcast on channel 31.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15723657
> 
> 
> I have been told previously in this forum that FOX 8 is planning on boosting their signal to make sure it's still accessible when they switch to VHS.



Holy gosh! VHS!!!







Has anyone told nickdawg about them going entirely to analog videocassette?


I kid, I kid...











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/15724422
> 
> 
> It's not moronic if you are the one paying the electric bill. The higher the frequency the higher the power needed to cover the same area. The savings are significant. I talked to their engineer shortly after they came online with their digital signal and he knew way back then that they were going to go back to channel 8 after the transition. He was astounded as to how much extra power was required to broadcast on channel 31.



Well, I guess that makes me the moron then. *sigh*


Nice fact to know though, regarding the electricity cost and the frequency.


----------



## Tim Lones

Hello:

My wife was watching a DVR on the TWC SA 8240HDC..A Blue screen comes up that says to the effect that "Explorer is now downloading an important updatelease do not touch anything."..Just wondering what it might be..The receiver is now rebooting..On front of the receiver there is the letter r and 3-number/letter combinations..as in r399a r399b, etc..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15727019
> 
> 
> Hello:
> 
> My wife was watching a DVR on the TWC SA 8240HDC..A Blue screen comes up that says to the effect that "Explorer is now downloading an important updatelease do not touch anything."..Just wondering what it might be..The receiver is now rebooting..On front of the receiver there is the letter r and 3-number/letter combinations..as in r399a r399b, etc..



It just means exactly that....You got an update. Now you'll have to see if anything is different.


It may be a big thing or it may be something you won't even notice. That particular DVR is noted for having some shall we say, issues.


----------



## Tim Lones

The update is done..No apparent changes that I see as yet..


----------



## Vchat20

I don't know why people say the 8300HDC has issues. Yeah, if you are coming from a Tivo environment then sure. TONS of issues, slow as ****, and more features missing than you can count. Personally I have never had any problems with it. Aside from the expected slowness which I can deal with, haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. Heck, even the conflict resolution works as I expect it to which, as I recall, was one of the past nags around here. I have a ton of shows recorded on thursday night and Burn Notice always seems to get the shaft on the 10PM recording but it'll just find the next airing of that specific episode and record the 1AM airing. Granted, there's no priority delegation to say which series recordings should definitely be recorded first in a conflict but that's a feature that is to be added in a future update once we get the revisions they are testing out in Arizona/San Jose.


But I digress. hookbill is correct. It's just what it says: An update. Though I'm surprised they are giving you a display that it is doing so. I have yet to see one here and usually it just does the updates and reboots without warning (albeit, most in the wee hours of the morning like 3AM).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15723657
> 
> 
> I have been told previously in this forum that FOX 8 is planning on boosting their signal to make sure it's still accessible when they switch to VHS.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15726016
> 
> 
> Holy gosh! VHS!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone told nickdawg about them going entirely to analog videocassette?
> 
> 
> I kid, I kid...



I wouldn't be surprised FOX wants to be an analog videocassette. FOX always wants to be "different". Doesn't bother me, I don't watch FOX that much anyway.


















> Quote:
> Well, I guess that makes me the moron then. *sigh*
> 
> 
> Nice fact to know though, regarding the electricity cost and the frequency.



Nope. It still makes them the morons. Every other station in the northeast Hoio markets are going to UHF, except for WOIO. WKYC had to fight to get off VHF. WJW is stupid for going back to VHF 8. Maybe somebody should tell them about PSIP if they're desperate to not have to paint over all their lovely new "FOX 8" logos on their garish set.
























WOIO is on 10, and they must be loving it. Today at OMW, I read again that WOIO "is broadcasting at the maximum power allowed by the FCC" on channel 10 because of the Canadian interference. So they're VHF and get to operate as a lower power channel. That must make Raycheap happy.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15727308
> 
> 
> I don't know why people say the 8300HDC has issues. Yeah, if you are coming from a Tivo environment then sure. TONS of issues, slow as ****, and more features missing than you can count.



I went from a Passport 8300HD to the 8300HDC. Worst piece of **** I ever had the displeasure of using. I only had it about a month and a half before chaining it to my bumper and returning it to TWC, where I was able to get an older 830HD with Passport. Even the version of Navigator they gave us on the 8300HD last May is far superior to the HDC boxes.


You could be coming from a VCR tape environment and you'll think the 8300HDC has issues!!
























Right now I have an 8300HD with MDN (Mystro Digital navigator for non OCAP boxes) and a 4250HDC with ODN (OCAP Digital navigator for OCAP boxes). The newer 4250 box is a piece of crap compared to the 8300. It's like a crude, archaic, ugly product that is still in a beta test.


I checked the 4250 box and it is still on. So I don't think there was any kind of "upgrade".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15727308
> 
> 
> I don't know why people say the 8300HDC has issues. Yeah, if you are coming from a Tivo environment then sure. TONS of issues, slow as ****, and more features missing than you can count. Personally I have never had any problems with it. Aside from the expected slowness which I can deal with, haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. Heck, even the conflict resolution works as I expect it to which, as I recall, was one of the past nags around here. I have a ton of shows recorded on thursday night and Burn Notice always seems to get the shaft on the 10PM recording but it'll just find the next airing of that specific episode and record the 1AM airing. Granted, there's no priority delegation to say which series recordings should definitely be recorded first in a conflict but that's a feature that is to be added in a future update once we get the revisions they are testing out in Arizona/San Jose.



You know when nickdawg and I agree, it's got to be a problem.










I think the reason I notice the problems more then others is the amount of recording I do. I record on average anywhere from 3 to 8 programs a night using two DVR's now. Back then I recorded average 3 to 6. I would regularly have partial recordings at least twice a week and missed recordings if the DVR skipped a couple of weeks. And it wasn't just one DVR. I went through 3 of them.


If the SA 8300 did what it was suppose to do, I honestly would not have bought a TiVo. I could live with it.


And fwiw I will be upfront and tell you that the SA 8300 is actually faster then TiVo, at least as far as the guide goes. Everything else however is light years behind of course.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15727634
> 
> 
> Right now I have an 8300HD with MDN (Mystro Digital navigator for non OCAP boxes) and a 4250HDC with ODN (OCAP Digital navigator for OCAP boxes). The newer 4250 box is a piece of crap compared to the 8300. It's like a crude, archaic, ugly product that is still in a beta test.



nickdawg, what kind of software do you have on that 4250 box? Mine has SARA and I think it's not bad at all.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15727546
> 
> 
> WJW is stupid for going back to VHF 8.



Somebody tell me why it will be a bad thing for WJW to go back to channel 8. Let's just take a look at the numbers... WJW has an application to use 30 kW of power. WOIO-DT is only using 3.5 kW at this time. Maybe that's why people have such difficulty receiving WOIO-DT. Their power is limited for certain reasons. It looks like WJW going back to channel 8 will be a good thing. Also, the higher VHF channels are not susceptible to interference as much as the lower ones.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Andrew K* /forum/post/15728095
> 
> 
> Somebody tell me why it will be a bad thing for WJW to go back to channel 8. Let's just take a look at the numbers... WJW has an application to use 30 kW of power. WOIO-DT is only using 3.5 kW at this time. Maybe that's why people have such difficulty receiving WOIO-DT. Their power is limited for certain reasons. It looks like WJW going back to channel 8 will be a good thing. Also, the higher VHF channels are not susceptible to interference as much as the lower ones.



Ummmm.....isn't VHF the lower ones????? 2-13 VHF After that UHF.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15723567
> 
> 
> If that is the case, then, in my opinion, it would be worth waiting for the transition instead of going the cable route. Gone this far waiting... what is another half to five months. I just hope that Fox doesn't become hard to get with their moronic decision to go VHF on us.
> 
> _Fox: Gee... everyone else will be UHF, so lets go VHF so it'll be harder for people to get us with an indoor antenna._



Unlike WOIO, WJW FOX 8 will have a superior VHF Hi-band signal. There is no Canadian ch 8 just across the lake to muck-up the signal. WJW has been on 8 in analog since 1955 with no interference problems. That's because no nearby stations are on ch 8. There is no comparison between the two stations situations. Ch 10, which is what WOIO is stubbornly holdig onto, belongs in Columbus. To this day I cannot understand how they were able to muscle it away from WBNS. The spacing between London Ontario and Columbus was pefect. Now we have WOIO short-spaced. They may have been able to bump WBNS but I doubt the Canadians are gonna bow to Raycom.


BTW don't "blame FOX". This station is owned by Local TV LLC, not FOX/New World Media. If it was such a bad decision the Local TV LLC could have petitioned the FCC to stay on rf 31.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15728115
> 
> 
> Ummmm.....isn't VHF the lower ones????? 2-13 VHF After that UHF.



Actually there are 2 different VHF bands. Low band is 2-6, then the FM radio band happens, as well as some non-broadcast freqencies (avation band) that are also used on cable (cable channels 14-22), then finally the High band 7-13. The only reason more broadcasters did not go digital on high band is becuse there are only 7 channels available and (except for poor WBNS) the stations that had those frequencies originally get the option to go back to their legacy frequency.


You watch, WJW-DT on rf ch 8 will have the best coverage of any Cleveland market station! Right now their analog is watchable in parts of Western PA!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15727966
> 
> 
> nickdawg, what kind of software do you have on that 4250 box? Mine has SARA and I think it's not bad at all.



OCAP Digital Navigator. It's the same thing as the DVR boxes, just without the DVR functions.


SEE, that's why I always say I wish TWC would go with SARA for the entire area, rather than Navigator. Compare your worst day with SARA to my best day with Navigator. I guarantee even SARA's worst problem is better than a relatively stable Navigator.


Surprisingly, even the awful 4250 box handles SDV well. At least that works. I can't wait to see how StartOver will work.


No, I can't wait until *your* 4250 gets OCAP digital navigator. Have fun!! :evilsmiley: :evilmiley:


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15728119
> 
> 
> BTW don't "blame FOX". This station is owned by Local TV LLC, not FOX/New World Media. If it was such a bad decision the Local TV LLC could have petitioned the FCC to stay on rf 31.



Actually the decision to move to channel 8 was one that FOX made, not the new owners.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15728495
> 
> 
> Actually the decision to move to channel 8 was one that FOX made, not the new owners.



But they could have petitioned to stay on UHF, as they did in Salt Lake City.


- Trip


----------



## JJkizak

Well gee, I thought that all the analog channels had to be freed up so now there will be exceptions? Sounds like the debate between tubes, vinyl, solid state, and CD's.

JJK


----------



## Inundated

I have a gut feeling that the 30KW DT 8 facility will do fine for WJW, for all of the reasons stated by others here...minimal to no interference problems, and a much higher power level than WOIO's digital facility even after that station maximizes.


----------



## nickdawg

And still no HD Seinfeld on WJW...


I get the feeling that place has FAIL written all over it!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15729081
> 
> 
> Well gee, I thought that all the analog channels had to be freed up so now there will be exceptions? Sounds like the debate between tubes, vinyl, solid state, and CD's.
> 
> JJK



Only analog broadcasts are being done away with, which has no direct relation to the channel/frequency it's transmitted on. Even if a station chooses to stay on the same frequency when switching to digital (not realistic), their signal would take up a notably smaller chunk of the RF spectrum compared to the analog requirements, freeing up a chunk of RF that can be assigned to other purposes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15728207
> 
> 
> SEE, that's why I always say I wish TWC would go with SARA for the entire area, rather than Navigator. Compare your worst day with SARA to my best day with Navigator. I guarantee even SARA's worst problem is better than a relatively stable Navigator.



I think that's the whole thing in a nutshell. SARA works well as a receiver, it just makes crummy software for a DVR.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15728207
> 
> 
> Surprisingly, even the awful 4250 box handles SDV well. At least that works. I can't wait to see how StartOver will work.



How can you say that when all you are seeing is a bunch of numbers on a diagnostic screen? Until you see it actually in use, you really don't have any idea.


If it's the 800 channels that you are looking at, that doesn't mean diddly.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15728207
> 
> 
> No, I can't wait until *your* 4250 gets OCAP digital navigator. Have fun!! :evilsmiley: :evilmiley:



Since that box is attached to a television my WIFE uses I could give a flying you know what. Anyway, it still appears that changing SARA to Navigator isn't all that easy so I still won't see that happen until they activate SDV around September or November. It sure as heck isn't going to happen this month. Or next.


----------



## hookbill

I found an interesting article on why some stations would be forced to delay their digital switch and others would be able to move on. You can read it here .


The article points out that interference with other existing channels would delay some stations from converting if the delay goes through, while others like WJW would not be affected if they move to their current spot on channel 8.


----------



## SCADAczar

I was wondering if anyone knows when TWC will be rolling out some decent HD content here in the NEO area? It's seems like we've all been waiting forever to be treated like the rest of the civilized world. I had initally been told by somone I know in facilities management at TWC that it would be in February or March but the last time I emailed him he was mum on the subject. I'd switch to U-verse but I'm 160' too far and I don't know anyone who has DirecTV to judge if I want to commit to a 2 year contract for a technology I'm not familiar with. So I continue to wait like the rest of TWC customers in the Cleveland, Akron area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SCADAczar* /forum/post/15732072
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows when TWC will be rolling out some decent HD content here in the NEO area? It's seems like we've all been waiting forever to be treated like the rest of the civilized world. I had initally been told by somone I know in facilities management at TWC that it would be in February or March but the last time I emailed him he was mum on the subject. I'd switch to U-verse but I'm 160' too far and I don't know anyone who has DirecTV to judge if I want to commit to a 2 year contract for a technology I'm not familiar with. So I continue to wait like the rest of TWC customers in the Cleveland, Akron area.



If you read even a few pages back you will see this is frequently discussed here.


The problem with TWC delivering the amount of HD that D* offers is they have not implemented SDV (Switched Digital Video), and until they get everybody on board on the same system (Navigator) they cannot implement it.


Now that's not to say they couldn't throw us a bone. We know they still have bandwith available, they are choosing not to give us even a couple of HD channels.


Run a google on TWC and Columbus and you will see what's to come. But it's not going to happen until exAdelphia an exComcast people can be put on board with the original TWC system, and that's a big problem.


We've heard March, but I think personally that is highly doubtful. I would guess in the Fall sometime. I too have a contact at TW in headend and she won't say much other then "they are working on it."


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15729081
> 
> 
> Well gee, I thought that all the analog channels had to be freed up so now there will be exceptions? Sounds like the debate between tubes, vinyl, solid state, and CD's.
> 
> JJK



The channels that have to be "freed up" are 52-69 since they have been allocated/auctioned off for other services including Public Safety.


----------



## SCADAczar

I saw where this had been discussed but I was hoping someone might actually know something concrete. I spoke to a technician in Canton this morning and he rattled off a list of HD channels that are to be added by April 1st from a memo he had but the memo also said that date may be postponed. I guess the April 1st date should have been my first clue....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SCADAczar* /forum/post/15732212
> 
> 
> I saw where this had been discussed but I was hoping someone might actually know something concrete. I spoke to a technician in Canton this morning and he rattled off a list of HD channels that are to be added by April 1st from a memo he had but the memo also said that date may be postponed. I guess the April 1st date should have been my first clue....



ROFLOL

















Welcome to the forum. It's my experience that whatever date they tell you, it's usually 6 months later.


We had one guy back in the old Adelphia days who use to tip us off about a month ahead of time, but he hasn't been around in a long, long time.


If you call CSR they will probably say April. Then in April they will say May, etc. But it is pretty impressive that the tech read off a memo.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15731949
> 
> 
> The article points out that interference with other existing channels would delay some stations from converting if the delay goes through, while others like WJW would not be affected if they move to their current spot on channel 8.



And according to Trip's list at RabbitEars, WJW now intends to do just that on February 17th.

http://www.rabbitears.info/termlist.php 



> Quote:
> Ohio
> 
> 
> Cleveland
> 
> WJW- DT FOX 08 31 08 STA 02/17/09 Local TV


----------



## SCADAczar

Thanks for the greeting. I spent a long time lurking to gain info on my HDTV and A/V receiever purchases and have found this site invaluable. Anyway, when he was reading off the HD channels I was getting pretty excited as I've been waiting along with everyone else for quite some time for TWC to show the same love they show other parts of Ohio and the U.S. I actually told him to stop reading as I couldn't take it! Every channel I was waiting for was on the list and April,isn't that far away. Of course now the prospect of having to wait until fall is extremely depressing....


----------



## bassguitarman

The reason TV stations want to be on VHF is the trasmitters are more efficient so it saves them money on electricity.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15732711
> 
> 
> The reason TV stations want to be on VHF is the trasmitters are more efficient so it saves them money on electricity.



And if you have the opportunity to visit even one analog TV facility, you'll know why.


The UHF sites have massive banks of transmitter cabinets, even digitally. The VHF sites have a transmitter cabinet about the size of a large refrigerator, and there's even less expense involved because the VHF transmitter rooms don't need the massive cooling that the UHF rooms do.


Again, I suspect WJW will end up fine on 8, particularly when it goes 30KW maximized.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15732362
> 
> 
> ROFLOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to the forum. It's my experience that whatever date they tell you, it's usually 6 months later.
> 
> 
> We had one guy back in the old Adelphia days who use to tip us off about a month ahead of time, but he hasn't been around in a long, long time.
> 
> 
> If you call CSR they will probably say April. Then in April they will say May, etc. But it is pretty impressive that the tech read off a memo.



Bull ----!!! I'm pulling the bullsh!t card. (note to self, make a cool new graphic!). Submitted for evidence, TWC NE Ohio stated last year that *on or around* March 4, 2008 a change would occur in the lineups in an attempt to "standardize" them. Also, at the time HGTV, FOOD, A&E, History, STO HD, WBNX HD would be added to the lineup. Well, that change came here on March 18, 2008. I call that "around March 4". It was a few weeks late, NOT 6 months. You're always so negative.


New Member Guy, you gotta take what hookbill says with a grain of salt, he's very negative with TWC. I choose to see the glass half full. He's just a Tivo salesman







!!!


And April 1st, at least there's a documented date. That's more info than I had yesterday. It also sounds like a logical date. From the national thread, I've seen that these changes/additions often happen around the first of the month.


New HD channels are coming in a month and a half, or New HD channels are coming in eight months. Think what you want, the choice is yours!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15732932
> 
> 
> Bull ----!!! I'm pulling the bullsh!t card. (note to self, make a cool new graphic!). Submitted for evidence, TWC NE Ohio stated last year that *on or around* March 4, 2008 a change would occur in the lineups in an attempt to "standardize" them. Also, at the time HGTV, FOOD, A&E, History, STO HD, WBNX HD would be added to the lineup. Well, that change came here on March 18, 2008. I call that "around March 4". It was a few weeks late, NOT 6 months. You're always so negative.
> 
> 
> New Member Guy, you gotta take what hookbill says with a grain of salt, he's very negative with TWC. I choose to see the glass half full. He's just a Tivo salesman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!!
> 
> 
> And April 1st, at least there's a documented date. That's more info than I had yesterday. It also sounds like a logical date. From the national thread, I've seen that these changes/additions often happen around the first of the month.
> 
> 
> New HD channels are coming in a month and a half, or New HD channels are coming in eight months. Think what you want, the choice is yours!



If anybody has to be taken with a grain of salt it's you. And you need a reality check.


The only time I ever saw TW do anything even close to schedule was the line up change, and even then we didn't get it when they said we would.


And I'm not just negative towards TW, it's all cable companies! They all suck.


I'll bet that list the tech read off was Columbus.


----------



## SCADAczar

Gee, I didn't mean to start anything! The tech I spoke with was in Canton, part of the NEO area and some of the channels he mentioned are already provided by TWC in Columbus. I have to say though that TWC have earned their reputation for both poor service and customer support. When I first got their HD service I went through 3 DVRs in the first month until I got one that actually worked correctly and before that my Road Runner service would go from 5MB/sec in the daytime to .8MB/sec in the evening because they didn't have the infrastructure to support the users. It's the 21st century and they still have one foot back in the 90s. Even as the new guy I'll side with hookbill on this one and say I take the April 1st date with a huge grain of salt (but I hope I'm wrong!)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SCADAczar* /forum/post/15733779
> 
> 
> Gee, I didn't mean to start anything! The tech I spoke with was in Canton, part of the NEO area and some of the channels he mentioned are already provided by TWC in Columbus. I have to say though that TWC have earned their reputation for both poor service and customer support. When I first got their HD service I went through 3 DVRs in the first month until I got one that actually worked correctly and before that my Road Runner service would go from 5MB/sec in the daytime to .8MB/sec in the evening because they didn't have the infrastructure to support the users. It's the 21st century and they still have one foot back in the 90s. Even as the new guy I'll side with hookbill on this one and say I take the April 1st date with a huge grain of salt (but I hope I'm wrong!)



You didn't start anything. nickdawg and I go around all the time.


It's laughable that he calls me the negative one. If anything he's more negative then anyone else here, but he's like a kid who won't stop believing in Santa Clause.


Anyway nickdawg, I was watching the 1/14 episode of Leverage on TNT HD last night. About 1/2 way through it went to commercial and came back in letterbox! Dolby 5.1 still running, I set my aspect at zoom 2 and it made it watchable but come on.


Needless to say it ruined the episode, I went into a nickdawg like tirade about ruining HD and spoiled it for my wife.


I checked the next episode, it's all in HD.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15732755
> 
> 
> And if you have the opportunity to visit even one analog TV facility, you'll know why.
> 
> 
> The UHF sites have massive banks of transmitter cabinets, even digitally. The VHF sites have a transmitter cabinet about the size of a large refrigerator, and there's even less expense involved because the VHF transmitter rooms don't need the massive cooling that the UHF rooms do.
> 
> 
> Again, I suspect WJW will end up fine on 8, particularly when it goes 30KW maximized.



With all this said, why is almost everyone else in the UHF band. I'm assuming stations are aware of the electricity benefit of the VHF band. The only benefit UHF seems to have, from my layman research is it is easier to receive, in general.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15734357
> 
> 
> With all this said, why is almost everyone else in the UHF band. I'm assuming stations are aware of the electricity benefit of the VHF band. The only benefit UHF seems to have, from my layman research is it is easier to receive, in general.



Because there's not room for everyone in the VHF band.


2-6 are nearly impossible to receive, as I'm sure everyone here will agree with, so nobody wants to be there except the exceptionally dumb.


So that leaves 7-13:


7 WJBK/WTRF

8 WJW

9 WTOV/CBET

10 WOIO/CFPL

11 WPCW/WTOL

12 WMFD/WICU

13 WQED/WTVG


In fact, channel 13 is the "fullest" channel in the US after the transition.


- Trip


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15734422
> 
> 
> Because there's not room for everyone in the VHF band.
> 
> 
> 2-6 are nearly impossible to receive, as I'm sure everyone here will agree with, so nobody wants to be there except the exceptionally dumb.
> 
> 
> So that leaves 7-13:
> 
> 
> 7 WJBK/WTRF
> 
> 8 WJW
> 
> 9 WTOV/CBET
> 
> 10 WOIO/CFPL
> 
> 11 WPCW/WTOL
> 
> 12 WMFD/WICU
> 
> 13 WQED/WTVG
> 
> 
> In fact, channel 13 is the "fullest" channel in the US after the transition.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks for the info. Answers that.


Hmm... then maybe they should put the UHF frequencies into the VHF spectrum to allow greater capacity then.











_Yes, I am joking._


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15733533
> 
> 
> If anybody has to be taken with a grain of salt it's you. And you need a reality check.
> 
> 
> The only time I ever saw TW do anything even close to schedule was the line up change, and even then we didn't get it when they said we would.
> 
> 
> And I'm not just negative towards TW, it's all cable companies! They all suck.
> 
> 
> I'll bet that list the tech read off was Columbus.



No, at that time when I was all "Yippee, I can't wait for March 4" you were like "It's not coming on march 4, it's just more empty talk from the evil cable company. They all suck you know!!". And it came two weeks late. So what. I'm not gonna be pissed if USA and F/X show up on April 15 or 22 instead of the 1st.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15734042
> 
> 
> You didn't start anything. nickdawg and I go around all the time.
> 
> 
> It's laughable that he calls me the negative one. If anything he's more negative then anyone else here, but he's like a kid who won't stop believing in Santa Clause.
> 
> *Anyway nickdawg, I was watching the 1/14 episode of Leverage on TNT HD last night. About 1/2 way through it went to commercial and came back in letterbox! Dolby 5.1 still running, I set my aspect at zoom 2 and it made it watchable but come on.*
> 
> 
> Needless to say it ruined the episode, I went into a nickdawg like tirade about ruining HD and spoiled it for my wife.
> 
> 
> I checked the next episode, it's all in HD.



Wait.





















Stretched letterbox or bars on all four sides letterbox? That would be odd that TNT screwed up like that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15735809
> 
> 
> Wait.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stretched letterbox or bars on all four sides letterbox? That would be odd that TNT screwed up like that.



Stretched letterbox (bars on top). It amazed me. How in the heck can they call that HD?


As I was displaying my outrage my wife told me I just didn't notice it at the start. But I'm sure I would have noticed.


If I get a chance I'll pull it out of the trash and check out the beginning. I can't believe it would go 1/2 a show without me noticing.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15734422
> 
> 
> So that leaves 7-13:
> 
> 
> 7 WJBK/WTRF
> 
> 8 WJW



Which brings me the opportunity to ask you, Trip...with WJW filing to transition early, is 8 basically wide open for them in the post-transition world? I don't recall anyone even remotely near this region moving to digital 8...


Is WWCP staying on 8? That's far enough away, I presume.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15734357
> 
> 
> With all this said, why is almost everyone else in the UHF band. I'm assuming stations are aware of the electricity benefit of the VHF band. The only benefit UHF seems to have, from my layman research is it is easier to receive, in general.



I wouldn't jump to that conclusion locally until after WJW lights up 30KW on DT 8...WOIO's current DT 10 signal isn't really a fair example.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15736180
> 
> 
> I wouldn't jump to that conclusion locally until after WJW lights up 30KW on DT 8...WOIO's current DT 10 signal isn't really a fair example.



Well, UHF _is_ technically easier to receive on a small antenna, which was my point. If WJW has a strong signal, then it may just be fine in the end. I can receive WOIO just fine, though it keeps me from getting WKYC, so as long as WJW is strong enough, I guess it'll be fine.


Sadly my experience and knowledge is based on my experience, which unfortunately lacking. That is why I ask the questions.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15736208
> 
> 
> Well, UHF _is_ technically easier to receive on a small antenna, which was my point. If WJW has a strong signal, then it may just be fine in the end. I can receive WOIO just fine, though it keeps me from getting WKYC, so as long as WJW is strong enough, I guess it'll be fine.
> 
> 
> Sadly my experience and knowledge is based on my experience, which unfortunately lacking. That is why I ask the questions.



No, you have some very valid points. The biggest problem with VHF is mostly at the low end, where WKYC is at both analog 3 and DT 2...you do need a large antenna for good reception, much larger than a typical indoor antenna.


It's not as bad up at high-VHF channels like 8 and 10. Many UHF antennas can pick up high-VHF with little difficulty.


----------



## hookbill

As predicted:


WASHINGTON, Feb 4 (Reuters) - A bill to delay the nationwide switch to digital television signals by about four months passed in the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday.


The U.S. Senate passed the bill seeking a delay late last month, and President Barack Obama said he intends to sign it.


Efforts to delay the transition date to June 12 from Feb 17 have been fueled by concern that 20 million mostly poor, elderly and rural households are not ready for the congressionally mandated switch. (Reporting by Kim Dixon; editing by Leslie Gevirtz)
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssT...01057520090204


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15737201
> 
> 
> As predicted:
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON, Feb 4 (Reuters) - A bill to delay the nationwide switch to digital television signals by about four months passed in the U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday...........



That was a real nail biter. Who knew??










Interesting caller on the radio today saying she got her mother a DTV Coupon box, when they did the *test* shutoff she had NO to tv signal. Then got her a new antenna per BB salesman, second *test* shutoff still no tv signal.


Here is my question regarding the DTV Coupon boxes (I don't have one and don't need one): If these DTV converters are made to receive digital then convert to analog then why does this woman need a *test* shutoff to test if it works as expected?? Or are these DTV converters dual tuner boxes that receive both analog and digital simultaneously and was (apparently) having no issue receiving the analog signal?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15737361
> 
> 
> That was a real nail biter. Who knew??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting caller on the radio today saying she got her mother a DTV Coupon box, when they did the *test* shutoff she had NO to tv signal. Then got her a new antenna per BB salesman, second *test* shutoff still no tv signal.
> 
> 
> Here is my question regarding the DTV Coupon boxes (I don't have one and don't need one): If these DTV converters are made to receive digital then convert to analog then why does this woman need a *test* shutoff to test if it works as expected?? Or are these DTV converters dual tuner boxes that receive both analog and digital simultaneously and was (apparently) having no issue receiving the analog signal?



They only convert digital to analog. She either has a bad box, a bad location, or she has stupid people around her who can't figure out how to hook it up.


----------



## toby10

As much as we all gripe about cable tv co's (and there is plenty to gripe about) I must say that I wish the local ch's would take a lesson from WOW cable on the PROPER way to do weather warnings!


A simple and NOT constant crawl at the top of the screen saying:

"Severe weather warning, turn to ch 15 for more details"

THAT'S IT! No friggin maps, radar images, continuous crawls, no altering the original picture size or format, etc...


Then, for ****s & giggles, I turn to ch 15 to see a simple message:

"The Natl Weather Service has issued a winter storm advisory for Cuyahoga and Lorain Counties effective until ........ blah-blah-blah....."


THIS is how you do it!







Use those crappy sub-channels for THIS purpose of weather advisories and leave your main broadcasts ALONE with a simple, non-obtrusive referral to your sub-channel for further details (assuming you even care to change the channel, which I don't).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15737401
> 
> 
> They only convert digital to analog. She either has a bad box, a bad location, or she has stupid people around her who can't figure out how to hook it up.



Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Why put an analog tuner into a new box when analog is going to be gone in six months..........9 months......3 years.........whenever (which is the entire reason for needing the box in the first place).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15737551
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. Why put an analog tuner into a new box when analog is going to be gone in six months..........9 months......3 years.........whenever (which is the entire reason for needing the box in the first place).



No you got it wrong. It converts the digital signal to analog, and it does a darn good job of it. Reception can be tricky, but if you get a decent signal your picture improves 100%.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15737517
> 
> 
> As much as we all gripe about cable tv co's (and there is plenty to gripe about) I must say that I wish the local ch's would take a lesson from WOW cable on the PROPER way to do weather warnings!
> 
> 
> A simple and NOT constant crawl at the top of the screen saying:
> 
> "Severe weather warning, turn to ch 15 for more details"
> 
> THAT'S IT! No friggin maps, radar images, continuous crawls, no altering the original picture size or format, etc...
> 
> 
> Then, for ****s & giggles, I turn to ch 15 to see a simple message:
> 
> "The Natl Weather Service has issued a winter storm advisory for Cuyahoga and Lorain Counties effective until ........ blah-blah-blah....."
> 
> 
> THIS is how you do it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use those crappy sub-channels for THIS purpose of weather advisories and leave your main broadcasts ALONE with a simple, non-obtrusive referral to your sub-channel for further details (assuming you even care to change the channel, which I don't).



I don't understand what you're saying. The crawl is generated from the station - cable just relays the signal to you - so how can that be?


If what you say is true then that's a WOW thing, TW doesn't do that.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15736165
> 
> 
> Is WWCP staying on 8? That's far enough away, I presume.



Yes and yes. I can't think of much else on 8 to interfere with WJW outside of WLIO-DT in Lima.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15736208
> 
> 
> Well, UHF _is_ technically easier to receive on a small antenna, which was my point. If WJW has a strong signal, then it may just be fine in the end. I can receive WOIO just fine, though it keeps me from getting WKYC, so as long as WJW is strong enough, I guess it'll be fine.
> 
> 
> Sadly my experience and knowledge is based on my experience, which unfortunately lacking. That is why I ask the questions.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15736376
> 
> 
> No, you have some very valid points. The biggest problem with VHF is mostly at the low end, where WKYC is at both analog 3 and DT 2...you do need a large antenna for good reception, much larger than a typical indoor antenna.
> 
> 
> It's not as bad up at high-VHF channels like 8 and 10. Many UHF antennas can pick up high-VHF with little difficulty.



"Little difficulty" is a relative term. At distances, UHFs are easier to get with indoor antennas, though closer in the difference is probably hard to catch as long as a station has enough power and is engineered well. I'm fighting with an upper VHF station at 0.1 kW (much weaker than WOIO-DT for you guys!) and I can't get any indoor antenna to receive anything out of it.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg

Chees and Applause to WJW for sticking with the date. Here's hoping others will follow.


----------



## firemantom26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15739200
> 
> 
> Chees and Applause to WJW for sticking with the date. Here's hoping others will follow.





*I wish everyone would follow them.*


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15737361
> 
> 
> Interesting caller on the radio today saying she got her mother a DTV Coupon box, when they did the *test* shutoff she had NO to tv signal. Then got her a new antenna per BB salesman, second *test* shutoff still no tv signal.



Two things: I wonder if the radio caller's mother did scan for channels before the test started.


And I wonder where that woman is.


----------



## hookbill

OK, maybe, just maybe this has something to do with SDV testing. I don't know.


Around January 15 I recorded an episode of "Gangland" on History HD. This is a copy protected channel that only allows me to copy once so I cannot transfer to my computer or my other DVR. Yet I had full capability for unlimited transfer on this one episode only.


I don't understand how this could have happened. The copy once is given to the channel, not to an individual show. I think.


I posted this in the TiVo thread as well. Maybe they were testing something and that caused the copy protection to miss?


Any of you braniacs got an idea?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15739647
> 
> 
> Two things: I wonder if the radio caller's mother did scan for channels before the test started.
> 
> 
> And I wonder where that woman is.



You should have seen the freak show on WOIO Action News last week. People complaining about DTV. The dumb woman with the aluminum foil on the TV top rabbit ears. Wow, I wonder why DTV signals aren't strong enough with a rigged piece of crap? GET A REAL ANTENNA!!! And then look at the Austin Powers style throwback guy. I swear that piece could have been filmed in the 1980. I would think that, if it wasn't for the modern converter box.























http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=9742313


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15741059
> 
> 
> You should have seen the freak show on WOIO Action News last week. People complaining about DTV. The dumb woman with the aluminum foil on the TV top rabbit ears. Wow, I wonder why DTV signals aren't strong enough with a rigged piece of crap? GET A REAL ANTENNA!!!



Gotta love the broken-up pictures of CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric.


Her show airs on...WOIO, which has one of the worst digital signals in the market.


For that piece to be anywhere near accurate, they'd have to come on and say "the reason that picture is breaking up is because OUR OWN SIGNAL BITES!"


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15741118
> 
> 
> Gotta love the broken-up pictures of CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric.
> 
> 
> Her show airs on...WOIO, which has one of the worst digital signals in the market.
> 
> 
> For that piece to be anywhere near accurate, they'd have to come on and say "the reason that picture is breaking up is because OUR OWN SIGNAL BITES!"



Yeah, I thought that. If people here who have quality antenna equipment and read the sites about positioning can't get a decent WOIO, how are rabbit ears with aluminum foil supposed to get that weak signal?


What would be funnier is if one of those people could get WKBN-DT. And they flip over to WKBN. Look, a newscast that's not like a comedy sketch!
























Advertise live on WOIO: Watch WKBN!!


----------



## nickdawg

TWC's DVR did something hook bill would brag that Tivo can do. It changed a series recording when a channel changed. Right now there are no more SDV test channels in the 800s. All the channels that were on that list to go SDV, are. With the exception of a few foreign language services in the 850s.


One of the channels I have a series recording on is G4. I like the series "Human Wrecking Balls" so I recorded the entire series, to watch at my convenience. What is now on channel 329 is G4 SDV that used to be in the 800s. And when the channel changed, so did the recording. I was surprised, because first I saw an older unwatched episode that says G4 - 65535. 65535 is the default number that appears when a channel is "removed". But even though the old, non SDV G4 is gone, the recording picked up again where it left off, using the new SDV version.


SEE, the SDV transition is closer and closer. I have a feeling those channels listed for Canton on April 1, will be here sometime around April 1. If they can put the crap we already have through in SDV, what's stopping them from putting new crap through in SDV??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15741312
> 
> 
> TWC's DVR did something hookbill would brag that Tivo can do. It changed a series recording when a channel changed.



Wow, that's just so, high tech!










A series 1 TiVo could do that.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15738495
> 
> 
> No you got it wrong. It converts the digital signal to analog, and it does a darn good job of it. Reception can be tricky, but if you get a decent signal your picture improves 100%.



Ummm.....how did I get it wrong? I said "why put an analog tuner in the DTV converter box".


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15738534
> 
> 
> I don't understand what you're saying. The crawl is generated from the station - cable just relays the signal to you - so how can that be?
> 
> 
> If what you say is true then that's a WOW thing, TW doesn't do that.



It was a cable station, not a local station over cable. So the crawl had to come from the cable co.

It may be patched in from the Natl. Weather Service, I dunno.


There is one "catch" to this that may not go over well in your house hook: ch 15 is a shopping channel, the very simplistic text regarding the weather alert was over a blank gray background screen. But you could still hear the audio of the woman selling jewelry.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15739647
> 
> 
> Two things: I wonder if the radio caller's mother did scan for channels before the test started.
> 
> 
> And I wonder where that woman is.



Yeah, or they may have needed to switch to that input on the tv as well, who knows. She never said where she was calling from.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741688
> 
> 
> It was a cable station, not a local station over cable. So the crawl had to come from the cable co.



So how is that good? You got enough of that garbage from regular stations?


TW very rarely does that. Only in extreme instances have I seen a crawl like that. And I've even seen it once when I was watching a recording.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741687
> 
> 
> Ummm.....how did I get it wrong? I said "why put an analog tuner in the DTV converter box".



What we have here is a failure of communication.










I read you saying "Why put an analog tuner in a Digital Conversion Box?" If that's what you are asking, then the answer is obvious: to convert the digital signal so the analog television can receive it.


If that's not what you are saying, and I repeated it almost verbatim from your post then what are you saying?


Many people still have analog television. I have one. Heck, those things were built to last! And those are the folks who need the box.


Which they should have had right now unless they already got such bad reception they can't get a channel now.







Heck, the message is scrawled across the screen. It's crazy.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15741699
> 
> 
> So how is that good? You got enough of that garbage from regular stations?
> 
> 
> TW very rarely does that. Only in extreme instances have I seen a crawl like that. And I've even seen it once when I was watching a recording.



You are missing the point.










It's better than filling the half the screen with crawls, radar maps, weather maps, maps of affected counties, school closings, etc... like the locals do. Instead it just refers you to another ch should you care enuff to bother reading the full weather alert.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741718
> 
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's better than filling the half the screen with crawls, radar maps, weather maps, maps of affected counties, school closings, etc... like the locals do. Instead it just refers you to another ch should you care enuff to bother reading the full weather alert.



Toby10 you and I are having some big time communications issues.


My point is that they shouldn't have a crawl at all on the cable channels. None. Nadda. Leave that for the networks.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15741711
> 
> 
> What we have here is a failure of communication.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read you saying "Why put an analog tuner in a Digital Conversion Box?" If that's what you are asking, then the answer is obvious: to convert the digital signal so the analog television can receive it.
> 
> 
> If that's not what you are saying, and I repeated it almost verbatim from your post then what are you saying?
> 
> 
> Many people still have analog television. I have one. Heck, those things were built to last! And those are the folks who need the box.
> 
> 
> Which they should have had right now unless they already got such bad reception they can't get a channel now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heck, the message is scrawled across the screen. It's crazy.



Yes, we are failing to communicate.










My original question was "do they have analog tuners in these DTV converter boxes" to receive analog OTA, you said no (which is what I had suspected myself).


So my response to your answer was "why put an analog tuner in a DTV box". What was implied in my answer was: yes, I agree, why do it


I don't think you need a analog tuner to convert to analog.


----------



## ErieMarty

what channels are you talking about for April 1st...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741739
> 
> 
> Yes, we are failing to communicate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My original question was "do they have analog tuners in these DTV converter boxes" to receive analog OTA, you said no (which is what I had suspected myself).
> 
> 
> So my response to your answer was "why put an analog tuner in a DTV box". What was implied in my answer was: yes, I agree, why do it
> 
> 
> I don't think you need a analog tuner to convert to analog.



No, of course not. No wonder we were so confused.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15741726
> 
> 
> Toby10 you and I are having some big time communications issues.
> 
> 
> My point is that they shouldn't have a crawl at all on the cable channels. None. Nadda. Leave that for the networks.



You asked what was good about it. It would be "good" if the locals copied the idea of a simplified warning, refering to another ch for details.










This was the entire point of the original post.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741754
> 
> 
> You asked what was good about it. It would be "good" if the locals copied the idea of a simplified warning, refering to another ch for details.



Well, I'm glad we cleared up all this confusion. And quit sticking your tongue out at me or I'll send nickdawg over to bite it off!!!


----------



## hookbill

As of 7:40, WJW is down OTA and on cable. Anybody else see this?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741739
> 
> 
> My original question was "do they have analog tuners in these DTV converter boxes" to receive analog OTA, you said no (which is what I had suspected myself).



Actually, there are boxes out there that do this. I believe the feature is aptly called 'Analog passthrough' or something to that effect. Search wikipedia for the article that lists the box and compares by features. Should have it listed.


But they are out there. I don't know what actual reason was cooked up by the govt/box mfr's to add the feature in this first place though. I do know that having this in there pre-transition is only adding to the confusion for the tech-illiterate crowd (which is like ALL of the people this retarded CECB program is focused on).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15741769
> 
> 
> Well, I'm glad we cleared up all this confusion. And quit sticking your tongue out at me or I'll send nickdawg over to bite it off!!!



























BTW: you guys sure made a mess of things while I was gone! Who ordered all this snow?? Good lord!


Yeah ch 8 is down. OTA is a blank screen, WOW cable is a frozen screen.


----------



## Vchat20

Here's the link btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units 


And I stand corrected. Looks like the prime focus of the analog passthrough feature is for the low power stations and translators that will continue to run analog broadcasts after this first transition. It also helps with the small subset of tv's that have FM radio tuning capability.


The 'analog passthrough' feature actually passes the analog RF signal directly through to the tv so there is not actual analog tuner in the box. So essentially if you have one hooked up to your set and you do a scan on the tv, you get the channel 3 or 4 from the box and all the rest of the OTA analog channels. Rather than the box tuning to the analog channels itself. My only curiosity is if that analog signal is going straight through to the tv untouched or if it's going through any circuitry to help retain the signal strength, quality, etc..


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/15732711
> 
> 
> The reason TV stations want to be on VHF is the trasmitters are more efficient so it saves them money on electricity.



And this is because signal propagation is much more efficient on the High-VHF channels. There is less loss and the signals tend to bend more with the curvature of the earth and around obstructions. [Ever notice how sunsets are typically red? Red is the lowest frequency (highest wavelength) light color and survives the earth's curvature longer than the higher frequency (lower wavelength) colors like green and blue.]


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15741910
> 
> 
> Here's the link btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units
> 
> 
> And I stand corrected. Looks like the prime focus of the analog passthrough feature is for the low power stations and translators that will continue to run analog broadcasts after this first transition. It also helps with the small subset of tv's that have FM radio tuning capability.
> 
> 
> The 'analog passthrough' feature actually passes the analog RF signal directly through to the tv so there is not actual analog tuner in the box. So essentially if you have one hooked up to your set and you do a scan on the tv, you get the channel 3 or 4 from the box and all the rest of the OTA analog channels. Rather than the box tuning to the analog channels itself. My only curiosity is if that analog signal is going straight through to the tv untouched or if it's going through any circuitry to help retain the signal strength, quality, etc..



Yes, passthrough I can understand to simplify setup. My Digital HD OTA/QAM box does this and only "tunes in" digital signals.


----------



## JJkizak

K2rj:

That is not true. Higher frequencies go straight, very low frequencies bend ala the ham band. Ducting is the only atmospheric condition that will bend UHF frequencies around the Earth and that happens rarely, maybe twice a year. In Tropspheric Scatter systems

(Raleghies? Distribution) (350 to 1000 megs) most of the UHF signal travels into space while a very small portion is reflected back to Earth 100 to 500 miles away. Tropo systems require Parametric amplifier front ends (noise figure 1.8 db with 10meg bandwidth) and huge parabolic antennas with very high power transmitters aimed a few degrees above the 40 mile horizon point of the Earth. Receiver sensitivites are aproximately -106 dbm for 20 db quieting, roughly about 20 db better than your tv set.

This is why satellite tv systems use narowly focused requencies in the 2 gig range because they go straight into that little teeny weeny parabolic antenna. Higher frequencies also love to be blocked by clouds, rain, and snow as in weather radars and gun and missile control radars. The latter radars have special circuits to eliminate that however.

The higher frequencies require the use of coaxial hard line or waveguide to handle the power levels efficiently and this stuff is expensive. Coaxial Styroflex can handle lower powers but is also expensive. All this stuff is gold flashed internally with teflon spacers and the db loss per hundred feet at 1000 megs is something like .3 db. Even your tv front ends have to be better at the higher frequencies and they are. Styroflex would be a great lead-in for your tv if you could afford it---effectively zero signal loss. At these frequencies another issue prevails in the form of cosmic noise. That's why astronomers use ruby front ends in those huge antennas. So the higher the frequency the less it bends and the more expense is required to handle it.

JJK


----------



## scherfmd

Hey everyone... Not sure if this is off topic or has been covered before, but I figured it seems like a great majority of you have been in the trenches and have been dealing with TWC for a while.


I read a Wall Street Journal article about negotiating down your cable/phone bills. ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123248760842899491.html )


Has anyone ever tried this with TWC around here? I mean I think between some of the competition out there like Dish, Direct TV, uVerse offering more HD/better pricing that TWC might be willing to do SOMETHING to retain customers.


Just curious if anyone has tried and if so like did it work. Maybe some helpful tips for talking points to the robot CSRs?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scherfmd* /forum/post/15742371
> 
> 
> Hey everyone... Not sure if this is off topic or has been covered before, but I figured it seems like a great majority of you have been in the trenches and have been dealing with TWC for a while.
> 
> 
> I read a Wall Street Journal article about negotiating down your cable/phone bills. ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123248760842899491.html )
> 
> 
> Has anyone ever tried this with TWC around here? I mean I think between some of the competition out there like Dish, Direct TV, uVerse offering more HD/better pricing that TWC might be willing to do SOMETHING to retain customers.
> 
> 
> Just curious if anyone has tried and if so like did it work. Maybe some helpful tips for talking points to the robot CSRs?



I tried it a while back and didn't get anywhere. I tried to get the starting rate for year. I threatened them with D* and they didn't blink.


Let us know if that works out for you. In these times it might work.


----------



## yespage

I did with Directv. Told them DishNetwork was offering a really good deal and that I needed something to stay with Directv. I wasn't rude or anything, pretty much said I liked Directv, but Dish Network looked like a better offer. The lady said she couldn't do anything and I politely asked if I could speak with someone that could.


Went up a level to another Representative. Told her the same stuff and set my terms, got a free DVR upgrade (with no DVR free for 6 months), another $5 a month credit for 6 months. Ultimately, I did leave Directv some time later because Dish Network offered a bit more plus SOCCER!!! for $10 less a month. But it was nice to be able to get the discount.


The key is be polite, make a good case and set reasonable terms. I can't speak of Time Warner, I had them for 2 months before I went to Sat. That is how much I didn't like Time Warner.


----------



## Andrew K




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15741849
> 
> 
> As of 7:40, WJW is down OTA and on cable. Anybody else see this?



I turned on WJW-DT this morning, and I got no picture from the OTA digital signal. So I turned to channel 3.


----------



## ErieMarty

I use to be able to get the Cleveland Local channels in HD..when I did a QAM of the cable line directly into my TV in Erie Pa..


but as of Last night they were all GONE..(unless they moved them to another location)..


I really liked to watch channel 3.1 news at 7pm and then ET Tonight in HD as our local station in Erie doesn't give us a HD Feed of the show..plus our ABC Station isn't available in HD on Time Warner so I would switch over to the cleveland station to watch an ABC Show in HD


Did they moves the cleveland channels to another spot or did the finally block them in Erie ???


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15743983
> 
> 
> Did they moves the cleveland channels to another spot or did the finally block them in Erie ???



Damn Time Warner? Isn't it against the law for them to even make it available to you being in Erie?


Feel free to put blame from that on someone, but _that_ isn't Time Warner's fault.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15744024
> 
> 
> Damn Time Warner? Isn't it against the law for them to even make it available to you being in Erie?



I'm not certain about that. I think if there is no agreement with the locals in the area they certainly would go to another area to provide coverage.


More then likely in this case they are just fixing up another one of Adelphia's messes they left them. Probably necessary so they can get the SDV going. It's starting on April 1 you know.










Happy April Fools (early) nickdawg!


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15742270
> 
> 
> K2rj:
> 
> That is not true....
> 
> JJK


*Yes it is true.* You can believe what you want and try to support it with a potpourri of unrelated technical facts but it doesn't change the fact that all waves can bend around obstructions and the lower the frequency, the more they can bend. That's why VHF & UHF propagation modelling programs use a 4/3 earth radius to compensate for this bending.


Free-space loss is also less for lower frequencies. A 10 mile path at channel 8 (183 MHz) has about 101 dB loss. At channel 31 this same path exhibits over 110 dB loss, which means 10 dB more ERP (10 x the power) is required for the same signal level. This doesn't take into account higher scattering or foilage (both leaf and needle) losses that plague the higher channels and can easily add another 10 dB of loss. Of course, higher-gain antennas are smaller and easier to come by at the higher frequencies, but they can't add power, they only compress the beam (like the lens on a flashlight.) And, if the beam is compressed too much, you wind up losing signal strength closer-in to the tower, so there's only so much you can do with the antenna.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15741687
> 
> 
> Ummm.....how did I get it wrong? I said "why put an analog tuner in the DTV converter box".



I think I figured it out. There is no analog tuner in a DTV converter box. But there is an analog tuner in the TV. Maybe this person was confused and continued using the TV tuner, rather than the converter tuner?


I could see someone who never had cable not understanding the whole "put the TV on channel 4 and leave it there", like with cable boxes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/15741740
> 
> 
> what channels are you talking about for April 1st...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SCADAczar* /forum/post/15732212
> 
> 
> I saw where this had been discussed but I was hoping someone might actually know something concrete. I spoke to a technician in Canton this morning and he rattled off a list of HD channels that are to be added by April 1st from a memo he had but the memo also said that date may be postponed. I guess the April 1st date should have been my first clue....



There's (supposedly) a list of channels that are supposed to be added on April 1. He didn't say which ones.


It makes sense. SDV is fully running on almost all the channels that were listed as channels transitioning to SDV.


It's also been said that the former Comcast area is supposed to launch SDV in mid to late February. Mr. Jasso said the whole project is supposed to be completed in March.


Then we're in April. TWC usually starts in Canton. They did with the last project.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15746104
> 
> 
> 
> Then we're in April. *TWC usually starts in Canton*. They did with the last project.



On this statement I'm pulling the bs card! One incident and they "usually" do it this way?


I don't think so. Judging by the TW person's statement on OMW the SDV is going to go out to everyone, not you first and us a month later.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15746342
> 
> 
> On this statement I'm pulling the bs card! One incident and they "usually" do it this way?
> 
> 
> I don't think so. Judging by the TW person's statement on OMW the SDV is going to go out to everyone, not you first and us a month later.



He said it was going to be done for everyone in March. Just because SDV is finished, doesn't mean everyone is getting all the channels on the EXACT same date. Someone's always first. Last time it was Canton. If the memo said Canton, I assume they're working the same way again.


Judging by my TV, SDV is here, and coming to your area a month later.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15741849
> 
> 
> As of 7:40, WJW is down OTA and on cable. Anybody else see this?



It must have been serious, because I noticed TWC is using the analog OTA feed for WJW SDTV again




























. I flipped over to "Judge Judy" on channel 8 and I noticed that ugly, clear "FOX8" bug is in the corner of the screen again. Plus the picture looks like ****e, the from HD downconversion picture looked much better.


Hey TWC jackasses, WJW-SD is going off the air next week, CHANGE IT BACK!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15746466
> 
> 
> He said it was going to be done for everyone in March. Just because SDV is finished, doesn't mean everyone is getting all the channels on the EXACT same date. Someone's always first. Last time it was Canton. If the memo said Canton, I *assume* they're working the same way again.
> 
> 
> Judging by my TV, SDV is here, and coming to your area a month later.



I don't have to tell you what that means.










And I don't believe you have SDV. Proove it! Just because you see something on your diagnostic screen does not mean it's active SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15746590
> 
> 
> I don't have to tell you what that means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I don't believe you have SDV. Proove it! Just because you see something on your diagnostic screen does not mean it's active SDV.



And just how am I supposed to prove it? I have. The diagnostic screen says the channels are SDV. The channel name has SDV in it. "G4 SDV", "SPORTS1 SDV", etc. The channel's frequency is the same as the SDV frequency listed on the SDV page.


That's the thing, there's no difference between SDV and non SDV channels. And especially once they start adding HD channels, you'll never be able to tell by appearance what's SDV and what's not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15746803
> 
> 
> And just how am I supposed to prove it?



Buy a TiVo and let me know if you can't get any channels. Then you will know if you have SDV.


You have 7 days from the time you plug it in and 30 days to return it. Cable cards are at your cost.


That's how you prove it. In the meantime I am very, very skeptical, I don't care what you see on your screen.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15746924
> 
> 
> Buy a TiVo and let me know if you can't get any channels. Then you will know if you have SDV.
> 
> 
> You have 7 days from the time you plug it in and 30 days to return it. Cable cards are at your cost.
> 
> 
> That's how you prove it. In the meantime I am very, very skeptical, I don't care what you see on your screen.



You should try out for Last Comic Standing next year. You're good.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15744024
> 
> 
> Damn Time Warner? Isn't it against the law for them to even make it available to you being in Erie?
> 
> 
> Feel free to put blame from that on someone, but _that_ isn't Time Warner's fault.



Yes..I am upset I am not getting the Cleveland HD channels in Erie anymore..but I knew I was ONLY getting them because of the QAM on my HD TV..not because I was suppose to get them through my Cable box....


its sorta like Signing up for HBO and them forgetting to add it to you bill and some months later they figure it out and start to bill you for it...and you say..Damn I don't get it free anymore...


----------



## nickdawg

Yespage is, as we say in the online world, a troll. Take it with a grain of salt. I remember a few posts back he/she blew up over something I said. There's just some people who like to fight over everything.


But if you're not getting those channels through a box, then you're not supposed to get them. Considering the mess made by combining all these cable systems(especially ones of lesser quality







) I'm not surprised channels are out of order.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15746021
> 
> 
> I think I figured it out. There is no analog tuner in a DTV converter box. But there is an analog tuner in the TV. Maybe this person was confused and continued using the TV tuner, rather than the converter tuner?
> 
> 
> I could see someone who never had cable not understanding the whole "put the TV on channel 4 and leave it there", like with cable boxes.



Yeah, that could very well be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15747325
> 
> 
> Yespage is, as we say in the online world, a troll. Take it with a grain of salt. I remember a few posts back he/she blew up over something I said. There's just some people who like to fight over everything.



Pretty harsh, nickdawg!


----------



## hookbill

I noticed that at the end of their newscast they are still asking if you are ready for the digital transition in February (no date). Maybe I'm reading too much into that.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15746500
> 
> 
> It must have been serious, because I noticed TWC is using the analog OTA feed for WJW SDTV again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I flipped over to "Judge Judy" on channel 8 and I noticed that ugly, clear "FOX8" bug is in the corner of the screen again. Plus the picture looks like ****e, the from HD downconversion picture looked much better.
> 
> 
> Hey TWC jackasses, WJW-SD is going off the air next week, CHANGE IT BACK!!!



Fine, you get a green screen insted of WJW programming. In case you havn't read the above posts, WJW-DT is down! At least the analog was still there as a back-up.


BTW: this is a fine time to bring up the following issue that has been in my thoughts ever since WJW announced that they were going to shutoff analog on Feb. 17th anyway. Not only is the analog going away, but the current digital signal is also going away (rf 31 is being replaced on rf ch 8). They better start running a "time to rescan soon" promo. Also I wonder if they will run a barker channel on rf 31 alerting viewers to rescan to ch 8 for a time. They will loose a lot of viewers without this warning message. I also wonder if all the carriers (cable and satellite) are ready for the flip to DT on rf 8?


I hope WKYC is paying close attention to how this goes for WJW, since they too will have to have a mass-rescan when they finally get their new tower up and running.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15747809
> 
> 
> Fine, you get a green screen insted of WJW programming. In case you havn't read the above posts, WJW-DT is down! At least the analog was still there as a back-up.



WJW-DT is on again.


That's the thing, there's no going back once the analog channel is gone. It's time to get ready for the future. WOIO is also the ugly analog feed again, because there were problems with TWC's distribution a few weeks back. They need to get their s**t together, not crawl back to analog.


WKYC and WEWS too. Time to start using the digital sources!!


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15747744
> 
> 
> I noticed that at the end of their newscast they are still asking if you are ready for the digital transition in February (no date). Maybe I'm reading too much into that.



Our attorneys have told us to continue with the required announcements until the President signs the Bill and the FCC gives a little clearer guidelines. (I am not at WEWS but I think most stations have the same orders)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15747744
> 
> 
> I noticed that at the end of their newscast they are still asking if you are ready for the digital transition in February (no date). Maybe I'm reading too much into that.



I'm watching WEWS SD through TWC on channel 5(which is the analog version) and during Jeopardy! there is no "circle 5" bug on the screen and after the first commercial break there were no Lotto numbers or the crawl about Oprah. The lotto numbers and the crawl were shown on WEWS-HD, but not WEWS SD. It looks like WEWS is starting to abandon the analog SD channel in favor of the HD channel. That's not the behavior I'd expect out of someone who is going to keep this running for another four months, as a majority of cable/satellite viewers are SDTV viewers.


Right now, same thing happened to the Ten-O numbers. Only on HD.


HA! I'm gonna stop watching WEWS HD now!!


----------



## Cathode Kid

We can't rule out an equipment failure as the cause of this. I would be surprised if they started dismantling their analog plant while it was still on the air.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15748631
> 
> 
> We can't rule out an equipment failure as the cause of this. I would be surprised if they started dismantling their analog plant while it was still on the air.



You know this morning WJW analog was down for a brief time too. So what you say makes sense.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15748631
> 
> 
> We can't rule out an equipment failure as the cause of this. I would be surprised if they started dismantling their analog plant while it was still on the air.



The news cut-in during the end credits of Jeopardy was still there, with a 5 bug in the lower right corner. If there was a failure, that would be missing too.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15748842
> 
> 
> The news cut-in during the end credits of Jeopardy was still there, with a 5 bug in the lower right corner. If there was a failure, that would be missing too.



unless the problem is in MCO and the cut in went through the control room


----------



## Cathode Kid

Fox-8 just announced on the 10pm newscast that they're makikng the switch on June 12th. This seems to disagree with their FCC filing . Now I'm puzzled.


----------



## Trip in VA

The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15749718
> 
> 
> The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...
> 
> 
> - Trip



This transition will never happen, will it? First they move the date, now they're making it harder to shut off.


Then I find this beauty quote at OMW from Jay Rockefeller:



> Quote:
> "While broadcasters are still permitted to move forward on February 17, and some will do so, I hope that many will think of the needs of their customers and carefully weigh their options. This bill gives them an opportunity to stay the course through to June 12 until more help can be put in place."



I hope Senator Jay Rockefeller gets his ass kicked out next election.
























BASTARD


----------



## nickdawg

On 5 News at 11, the sports score bar also only appeared on screen on the HD channel, not the SD channel. The regular bug/lower third banners appeared during the show.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15749718
> 
> 
> The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...
> 
> 
> - Trip



Dude... sorry about that becoming a waste of time. Looks like you put a ton of effort into that thing. Oh well... at least you still have your health.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15749906
> 
> 
> This transition will never happen, will it? First they move the date, now they're making it harder to shut off.



The transition is happening. Only 6.5 to 12 million people are without the resources to get digital right now. We are almost there.



> Quote:
> I hope Senator Jay Rockefeller gets his ass kicked out next election.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BASTARD



Wow. Republicans are obstructing a stimulus package that will help give money to states to get people back to work and you are pissing about a digital transition delay as if the delay is preventing you from receiving digital OTA HD signals.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15751654
> 
> 
> Wow. Republicans are obstructing a stimulus package that will help give money to states to get people back to work and you are pissing about a digital transition delay as if the delay is preventing you from receiving digital OTA HD signals.



There are many parts of the country where that's true. See Chicago (CBS), Philadelphia (PBS), San Diego (CBS), etc.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill

I just wonder if the decision to delay by WJW had anything to do with that outage yesterday. Maybe they decided to rethink it for a few months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15751654
> 
> 
> Wow. Republicans are obstructing a stimulus package that will help give money to states to get people back to work and you are pissing about a digital transition delay as if the delay is preventing you from receiving digital OTA HD signals.



If it is true that delay in transmitting will cost broadcasters money (I'm sure it will) and if what I heard is true about the FCC having to cover these costs then I have to agree (gulp) with nickdawg. It seems like just for a handful of people to make this exception is so unnecessary. And will the FCC have to cover the cost to the wireless providers that have to hold off on additional services? Qualcomm was ready to jump on a huge project on February 17.


Look, I'm not usually for business but if it cost my tax dollars for basically a very small amount of people then I think it was the wrong decision.


----------



## bassguitarman

The APEX box doesnt have an an analog tuner. Just analog pass-through. Turn the box off and the analog signal works fine.

I'd say these boxes are designed mostly for people that are going to hook them in series with their normal antenna to an older tv that doesnt have S video or component inputs.

They are not designed to be HD boxes.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15751747
> 
> 
> There are many parts of the country where that's true. See Chicago (CBS), Philadelphia (PBS), San Diego (CBS), etc.
> 
> 
> - Trip





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15751797
> 
> 
> If it is true that delay in transmitting will cost broadcasters money (I'm sure it will) and if what I heard is true about the FCC having to cover these costs then I have to agree (gulp) with nickdawg. It seems like just for a handful of people to make this exception is so unnecessary. And will the FCC have to cover the cost to the wireless providers that have to hold off on additional services? Qualcomm was ready to jump on a huge project on February 17.
> 
> 
> Look, I'm not usually for business but if it cost my tax dollars for basically a very small amount of people then I think it was the wrong decision.



Let me put it another way. I don't give a bloody hell if we've made the digital transition and then I lose my job because states no longer have any money to get public infrastructure jobs started. We are amidst possibly the worst economic crisis ever, and people are bitching about the digital OTA transition being delayed.


The priorities here seem terribly out of touch.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Let me interrupt our usual petty bickering







to bring up a fairly esoteric problem that I've been having.


I use my computer with HDTV card as a DVR. I capture the shows I want to watch, then watch them later. Recently, I've begun using my PlayStation3 as my playback device. It's a nice setup. But I've got one problem: Lost.


When I record ABC's Lost, the PS3 refuses to play it. It will play every other transport stream file from every other network, but it won't play Lost. I've recorded it using T/W's QAM signal and also using the straight OTA signal, but neither results in a playable file.


Just in case, I asked another PS3 owner to capture the same show using his system. His recording plays perfectly. Same hardware and software from end to end, but with one BIG difference. He is in another city. Different ABC affiliate. In fact, he has access to two ABC stations where he lives, and both of them (Baltimore/Washington) produce Lost recordings that work correctly.


So it appears that something about our local WEWS broadcast is causing the problem. I have no idea what might be different between the Cleveland station and others, but something is causing our local ABC streams to fail on my PS3.


BTW, I've already engaged in a fairly thorough discussion of this issue in forums for the PS3 and also for my MyHD card. So now I thought it might be worthwhile to explore it with other local viewers.


Any other local people using a PS3 to play back HDTV transport streams?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15751984
> 
> 
> Let me interrupt our usual petty bickering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to bring up a fairly esoteric problem that I've been having.
> 
> 
> I use my computer with HDTV card as a DVR. I capture the shows I want to watch, then watch them later. Recently, I've begun using my PlayStation3 as my playback device. It's a nice setup. But I've got one problem: Lost.
> 
> 
> When I record ABC's Lost, the PS3 refuses to play it. It will play every other transport stream file from every other network, but it won't play Lost. I've recorded it using T/W's QAM signal and also using the straight OTA signal, but neither results in a playable file.
> 
> 
> Just in case, I asked another PS3 owner to capture the same show using his system. His recording plays perfectly. Same hardware and software from end to end, but with one BIG difference. He is in another city. Different ABC affiliate. In fact, he has access to two ABC stations where he lives, and both of them (Baltimore/Washington) produce Lost recordings that work correctly.
> 
> 
> So it appears that something about our local WEWS broadcast is causing the problem. I have no idea what might be different between the Cleveland station and others, but something is causing our local ABC streams to fail on my PS3.
> 
> 
> BTW, I've already engaged in a fairly thorough discussion of this issue in forums for the PS3 and also for my MyHD card. So now I thought it might be worthwhile to explore it with other local viewers.
> 
> 
> Any other local people using a PS3 to play back HDTV transport streams?



Jim can you play it on your PC? I don't have any problems recording or transfering Lost so I really don't know what the problem is but my guess is something in the Computer to Playstation IF you are able to play it on the computer.


Very strange, I'll say that much.


What kind of file ending does your recording have?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15751894
> 
> 
> Let me put it another way. I don't give a bloody hell if we've made the digital transition and then I lose my job because states no longer have any money to get public infrastructure jobs started. We are amidst possibly the worst economic crisis ever, and people are bitching about the digital OTA transition being delayed.
> 
> 
> The priorities here seem terribly out of touch.



Bitching about the DTV delay in an HD / DTV forum seems appropriate to me.


I understand your concerns about the economy and your job future, but there are numerous political blogs and forums for such rantings. I, personally, don't mind such mentions in here. But his commenting/opinion about the DTV delay is FAR more on topic than your comments about republicans and stimulus spending.










The "priority" for people coming to this forum is for DTV discussions, not political/economic discussion.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15752105
> 
> 
> The "priority" for people coming to this forum is for DTV discussions, not political/economic discussion.



The name of the thread is Cleveland, OH - HDTV so technically speaking we are *suppose* to focus on HD. However having said that and since digital and HD are so linked together, you are absolutely right.


Other appropriate topics are SDV, Cable, Satellite, and any conversation about my parrots.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15752160
> 
> 
> The name of the thread is Cleveland, OH - HDTV so technically speaking we are *suppose* to focus on HD. However having said that and since digital and HD are so linked together, you are absolutely right.
> 
> 
> Other appropriate topics are SDV, Cable, Satellite, and any conversation about my parrots.



Hey, I *love* the parrot updates!










(note: no tongue)


----------



## nickdawg

That's exactly my point---why the flying f**kity f**k is Congress/the House wasting all this time trying to delay the DTV transition? They spent about three weeks or more on this. It was one of their first priorities, in a time when there are much more serious issues, like the economy. Digital TV *should* go ahead as planned to take a serious weight off broadcast TV, so they can avoid layoffs/firings and maybe even hire new people---create jobs.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15751894
> 
> 
> Let me put it another way. I don't give a bloody hell if we've made the digital transition and then I lose my job because states no longer have any money to get public infrastructure jobs started. We are amidst possibly the worst economic crisis ever, and people are bitching about the digital OTA transition being delayed.
> 
> 
> The priorities here seem terribly out of touch.



OK, let ME put it another way.


One of the reasons I'M frustrated about this is that Congress is actually wasting time by dealing with this at all. They've spent considerable time in the past month or so grandstanding on this, trying to make it appear that they're Doing Something to fix a big problem. They're only delaying it.


Shortly after this delay was approved by the Senate, but before the House finally weighed in, you couldn't go through a news feed without being bombarded by the "old people will lose their companionshiip from TV and will die a horrible, lonely death" stories...with a twinge of "old people will try to get up on the snowy roof to fix the antenna and will fall to their death" theme mixed in.


The New York Times alone ran a story a day for two days in this theme. The AP followed along. (We learned that the Meals on Wheels program in Houston was helping elderly people there. Let's hope they brought along some food!)


Oddly enough, that recent Nielsen study apparently says that older people are more prepared for the transition than younger people. Huh?


Now that the date is June 12, and seems firmly set, we just moved along the problems to June. Then, we'll have to put up with stories about people losing TV for one reason or another, and the old people fixing the antenna on the roof will not slip off the snow, but they'll risk being hit by lightning.


Those of us who have even a remote interest in the technical/operations side of TV - well, we know that this has been drilled into peoples' heads for well over a year, and has been proposed since 2005. Congress should have passed a quick bill fixing the coupon program, made it possible for people to buy boxes immediately with future $40 rebate, and moved on.


I understand nickdawg's frustration with Sen. Rockefeller. He's been providing loaded quotes with little facts behind them ("America is not ready!") as a politician hoping to curry favor with voting blocks.


But all Congress is doing, basically, is moving the "how do we deal with it" question to June. The coupon program funding problems are still NOT FIXED.


The new law, when signed, will make some changes...but the money to fund them won't come in until the overall stimulus bill is passed. Right now, they're fighting about the size of that plan, and it isn't getting passed today.


How does THAT help people waiting for those coupons? How long will it take to get the money going to clear that list? I've heard it could be as late as April. Now, we're back to as little as 30-60 days until the new date, assuming the coupons aren't going out by Pony Express.


Are we going to sit here in June and hear calls for the date to be moved again? October? Next year?


Look, as a viewer, I don't personally care. My regular TVs are all connected to cable. I have a couple of OTA sets with converter boxes (kitchen, etc.), but they're mostly for light viewing/hobby. I have no urgent need to get WKYC or WVIZ in my kitchen.


But this is ridiculous. The analog signals MUST be shut off at some point - the government has already taken the money from the commercial interests in auction, for one. Whether you think the new commercial ventures are great or not, doesn't matter...they have bought the rights to use the spectrum, and have the right to take it over.


Get it over with, and fix the problems afterward.


And like you, I realize that the current economy should be priority 1, 2, 3, 3a, 4, 5, etc. for Congress. They should not be wasting time trying to curry favor, presumably, with older voters by making it look like they're saving them from TV Death.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15752097
> 
> 
> Jim can you play it on your PC? I don't have any problems recording or transfering Lost so I really don't know what the problem is but my guess is something in the Computer to Playstation IF you are able to play it on the computer.
> 
> 
> Very strange, I'll say that much.
> 
> 
> What kind of file ending does your recording have?



I wonder if he could run the recording through something like VideoReDo, rewrite it, and have that recording play on his PS3. Maybe that'd strip some of the WEWS-introduced problems.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15752097
> 
> 
> Jim can you play it on your PC? I don't have any problems recording or transfering Lost so I really don't know what the problem is but my guess is something in the Computer to Playstation IF you are able to play it on the computer.
> 
> 
> Very strange, I'll say that much.
> 
> 
> What kind of file ending does your recording have?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15752381
> 
> 
> I wonder if he could run the recording through something like VideoReDo, rewrite it, and have that recording play on his PS3. Maybe that'd strip some of the WEWS-introduced problems.



The recordings play fine on my PC. And, yes, it is certainly possible to convert the recording into one that the PS3 will play using software. But that defeats the purpose, which is ease-of-use. There should be no need for an extra step.


The transport stream is encoded in MPEG2 and AC3. It's 1280x720x59.94 at about 17Mbps.


The problem is between WEWS and the PlayStation3. WEWS streams play fine everywhere except the PS3. But the PS3 plays streams from all other networks without difficulty. And it plays streams from other ABC affiliates without difficulty. So the problem is linked solely to the intersection between WEWS and the PS3.


Anybody else here using a PS3?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15752931
> 
> 
> The recordings play fine on my PC. And, yes, it is certainly possible to convert the recording into one that the PS3 will play using software. But that defeats the purpose, which is ease-of-use. There should be no need for an extra step.



I'm not suggesting that doing the conversion would be your final solution...it might, though, provide another data point. (And, if it works, it could allow you to watch the show on the PS3 until you figured out the solution.)


I'm wondering if a simple rewrite of the stream as an MPEG2 stream would work, or if there's something else in there (presumably inserted on WEWS) that would cause this. Remember my own problems with my old USB HDTV tuner and WJW locking it up on changes from national to local breaks? This would appear to be similar, though I can't be of a lot of help since I don't have a PS3...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15751984
> 
> 
> Let me interrupt our usual petty bickering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to bring up a fairly esoteric problem that I've been having.
> 
> 
> .............................
> 
> BTW, I've already engaged in a fairly thorough discussion of this issue in forums for the PS3 and also for my MyHD card. So now I thought it might be worthwhile to explore it with other local viewers.
> 
> 
> Any other local people using a PS3 to play back HDTV transport streams?



I don't use my PS3 to play back recorded TV shows, but I do use it for a number of other video formats. The PS3 can be picky about certain video playback and transcoding. Because of this my PS3 uses three different media sharing/transcoding packages (WMP11, Tversity, ps3mediaserver) depending on the video file type being selected.


Do your recorded shows need to be transcoded after it leaves your MyHD card? Or is this distributed in a native format the PS3 can handle on it's own?


I have *NO* experience with PC video tuning/recording cards or interconnects.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15754511
> 
> 
> Do your recorded shows need to be transcoded after it leaves your MyHD card? Or is this distributed in a native format the PS3 can handle on it's own?
> 
> 
> I have *NO* experience with PC video tuning/recording cards or interconnects.



What video formats are supported on the PS3?


It sounds like Jim is just feeding it a standard MPEG2 format, which most of these cards record natively. Both of mine do.


Maybe I can record a snippet of something on WEWS that Jim is having trouble with, and see if his PS3 chokes on that. If it does, that'd eliminate the MyHD card as a source of the problem, as I don't have one of those.


----------



## Trip in VA

It could be an encoder setting on their end. I've heard in the Cincinnati thread about some software not handling one or two of the local stations because of a flag in the video feed. I wish I could remember the details, but Nitewatchman had a good analysis.


Maybe it's a similar problem?


- Trip


----------



## Vchat20

Unfortunately when it comes to the OTA transport streams, this data is the equivalent of dirty/raw data and the format of such varies between stations. Normally it should not cause problems but as Inundated mentioned, WJW seems to be a major offender. Just for confirmation, check out the Firewire/Cable STB recording thread on this forum and see how many posts there are talking about how the transport streams are corrupted or otherwise wreaking havoc on the recording/playback programs.


VideoRedo would probably be your best bet and wouldn't add that much of a step to the process. The only alternative is to try and convince WJW that something on their end is buggered and that would be a lost cause right away.


Edit: Forgot the OP is dealing with WEWS. All the same though...


----------



## Inundated

Answering my own question:

http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...filetypes.html 



> Quote:
> The following types of files can be played under (Video).
> 
> 
> * Memory Stick Video Format
> 
> * - MPEG-4 SP (AAC LC)
> 
> * - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile （AAC LC）
> 
> * - MPEG-2 TS（H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC）
> 
> * MP4 file format
> 
> * - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
> 
> * MPEG-1 (MPEG Audio Layer 2)
> 
> * MPEG-2 PS (MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AAC LC, AC3(Dolby Digital), LPCM)
> 
> * MPEG-2 TS（MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AC3（Dolby Digital）, AAC LC）
> 
> * MPEG-2 TS（H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC）
> 
> * AVI
> 
> * - Motion JPEG (Linear PCM)
> 
> * - Motion JPEG (μ-Law)
> 
> * AVCHD （.m2ts / .mts）
> 
> * DivX
> 
> * WMV
> 
> * - VC-1（WMA Standard V2）



Sounds pretty extensive.


Jim, could you set your MyHD to directly record in one of the other formats? I don't know what it supports. I think I can set my own USB HD stick to record in different formats besides MPEG2.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15754561
> 
> 
> What video formats are supported on the PS3?
> 
> 
> It sounds like Jim is just feeding it a standard MPEG2 format, which most of these cards record natively. Both of mine do.
> 
> 
> Maybe I can record a snippet of something on WEWS that Jim is having trouble with, and see if his PS3 chokes on that. If it does, that'd eliminate the MyHD card as a source of the problem, as I don't have one of those.



MPEG2 should be no problem for a PS3. I'm wondering if the MyHD card might be transcoding it to something else (wild guess).


He might want to try taking a WEWS recording (or a portion there of) and drop it into his shared video folder and let a server program like Tversity or ps3mediaserver take a run at transcoding it, just for testing purposes.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15754587
> 
> 
> Jim, could you set your MyHD to directly record in one of the other formats? I don't know what it supports. I think I can set my own USB HD stick to record in different formats besides MPEG2.



The problem comes in that the OTA stream is in mpeg2 originally and is what these cards rely on to keep reliance on extra hardware or cpu power low. This in comparison to older NTSC cards that were either software based and relied solely on the cpu to encode the video or extra mpeg2 encoder chips on the card to do the job.


If he was to choose a different format (other than an mpeg2 based format), it would put a load on the cpu to transcode and would probably create more problems than it's worth.


NOW a possible solution: Check to see if the card is capable of giving you a straight mpeg (*.mpeg *.mpg) file rather than a transport stream (*.ts). If it can do that, it should strip all the extra crap data and just give you the video and audio which should appease the PS3. If not, use VideoRedo. It essentially will do the same thing. No transcoding. Just strips the garbage data.


----------



## Inundated

Vchat, you're correct...even on my dual-core laptop, setting the USB HDTV capture software to record directly into other formats overwhelms the computer. I tried recording directly to MP4, and the thing locked up.


OK, I'm kinda in over my head here, and Jim has already gone through this in the AVS Forum thread dedicated to his MyHD card:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...93691&page=184 


And I noticed this from him:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim G in the MDP thread, highlight mine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I captured four shows tonight: CSI, CBS News, Heroes, and Jeopardy. The two CBS shows and the NBC show played perfectly. The NBC show came in at around 13.5mbps, while the two CBS shows came in at 16.3 (News) and 16.75 (CSI). *Jeopardy (again ABC) used the highest data rate at 17.3mbps, slightly less than Lost did last week. And it was the only program of the four that did NOT play correctly.*



We may have stumbled onto a data point here.


"Jeopardy" is not an ABC show. It's syndicated (King World), and recorded/played back by WEWS in HD.


So, wherever the problem is, it is not likely at the ABC network level, since that isn't a network show. I suspect if Jim records the local news on 5, it'll have the same problem on his PS3. So, we're back to WEWS.


I can record a snippet of WEWS HD, small enough to send, and see if Jim has trouble with it on his PS3 end. I can record off of both OTA and TWC QAM.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15754578
> 
> 
> It could be an encoder setting on their end. I've heard in the Cincinnati thread about some software not handling one or two of the local stations because of a flag in the video feed. I wish I could remember the details, but Nitewatchman had a good analysis.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's a similar problem?



Well, if it's off of their ABC affiliate, it could well be the SAME problem - as Scripps owns both WEWS and Cincinnati ABC affiliate WCPO. And since groups tend to buy similar equipment and run stations in a similar way...


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15754818
> 
> 
> Well, if it's off of their ABC affiliate, it could well be the SAME problem - as Scripps owns both WEWS and Cincinnati ABC affiliate WCPO. And since groups tend to buy similar equipment and run stations in a similar way...



I don't remember. I want to say it was the Hearst-owned NBC station down there, but I don't remember for sure which one it was. Dig through the thread 2-3 months ago and you'll probably find it.


- Trip


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15754818
> 
> 
> Well, if it's off of their ABC affiliate, it could well be the SAME problem - as Scripps owns both WEWS and Cincinnati ABC affiliate WCPO. And since groups tend to buy similar equipment and run stations in a similar way...



Dorothy Fuldhiem put a *curse* on WEWS.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15754846
> 
> 
> I don't remember. I want to say it was the Hearst-owned NBC station down there, but I don't remember for sure which one it was. Dig through the thread 2-3 months ago and you'll probably find it.



I did, and it was indeed WLWT, not WCPO.


Nice try, though!


I wonder if Nitewatchman would have any more help/input for Jim's situation.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15752381
> 
> 
> OK, let ME put it another way.
> 
> 
> One of the reasons I'M frustrated about this is that Congress is actually wasting time by dealing with this at all. They've spent considerable time in the past month or so grandstanding on this, trying to make it appear that they're Doing Something to fix a big problem. They're only delaying it.
> 
> ...



I'll be pragmatic here. You are right on your points.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15754954
> 
> 
> I'll be pragmatic here. You are right on your points.



And for me, life goes on. I watch almost everything via cable, including all the major HD local network affiliates. I have the digital OTA converter box (one down here in the office), and can watch most of the OTA digital stations.


Despite the fact I wanted the switch to happen on time, when they told everyone it was going to happen, when they pummeled it into our heads for a year, when even my non-technology literate father knows about it... it looks to be June 12th for most people now, and if Fox 8 isn't switching early, I don't think anyone else here will.


It affects me none. But there's nothing that says I can't gripe about it (and the ridiculous "We're Doing Something" grandstanding in Congress) on a forum dedicated to HDTV. I'm not going out there and talking to people about this on the streets...when I shut down this computer, it's not an issue to me.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15754904
> 
> 
> I did, and it was indeed WLWT, not WCPO.
> 
> 
> Nice try, though!
> 
> 
> I wonder if Nitewatchman would have any more help/input for Jim's situation.



Could it not still be the same issue, or is it only on 1080i stations?


- Trip


----------



## Vchat20

Honestly: The only way it affects those of us who have Cable HDTV as an option is for those low-budget stations who still don't do local programming or syndicated programming in native HD. And unfortunately that /IS/ a pet peeve of mine. As retarded as it sounds, sometimes I wish I lived in Cleveland so I could use WKYC as my regular local news source.


If they could have just gotten this damn transition over with this month, all of these stations could have cut back on expenses keeping those analog transmitters going and be that much closer to affording the equipment needed to begin running native HD programming.


But other than that, no, I could care less on the matter. All the 'DTV transition' ads and crawls are merely a minor annoyance and even if the economy were to take a complete dump tomorrow and we had to switch back to broadcast tv, I have an HD set with a digital tuner anyway.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15752160
> 
> 
> Other appropriate topics are SDV, Cable, Satellite, and any conversation about my parrots.



Your parrots are on topic, because they watch digital TV and downconverted HDTV on a CECB.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15755022
> 
> 
> Could it not still be the same issue, or is it only on 1080i stations?



No, WEWS is 720p (ABC), and WLWT is 1080i (NBC).


Jim's earlier messages say he was having no problem with the local 1080i stations.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15755153
> 
> 
> No, WEWS is 720p (ABC), and WLWT is 1080i (NBC).
> 
> 
> Jim's earlier messages say he was having no problem with the local 1080i stations.



No, you're missing my question. I know they're different resolutions, I'm saying is the flag in question specific to 1080i, or could that also be the problem with WEWS's 720p.


- Trip


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15755178
> 
> 
> No, you're missing my question. I know they're different resolutions, I'm saying is the flag in question specific to 1080i, or could that also be the problem with WEWS's 720p.



That, I don't know. I wonder if Nitewatchman or someone else could do more of that flag analysis to help answer that question.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Wow. Thank you ALL. I'm amazed at the amount of discussion regarding my little problem with "Lost". A lot of questions have come up - I'll try to comment and/or answer some of them. The MyHD card captures into a transport stream format. That format, like most video formats, is an envelope that can contain any number of different kinds of encoding. In my case, the encoding is MPEG2 video with AC3 audio (aka Dolby Digital). That is probably the most common format in use, and the PS3 supports it directly.


The actual files produced by the MyHD system are assigned a *.tp filename, but they can be renamed as *.ts or *.m2ts without any impact. The PS3 will (or should anyway) play any of them.


It is quite possible to translate these files into a format that WILL play. That can be done through transcoding (ala PSM or TVersity), or through standalone software like TsMuxer or VideoReDo. In fact, even a simple recreation of the file using TsMuxer without any recoding will also allow the video to play. Same exact MPG2 data, same exact AC3 audio, no recoding at all, just recreating the basic TS envelope allows it to work.


I don't think that the MyHD is the issue, but I certainly welcome Inundated's offer of a capture from his HD card. Keep in mind that you'd probably just want to capture a few seconds of signal. These files get big in a hurry. And 5-10 seconds is plenty to see whether or not it works.


Trip's point about an encoder setting is quite interesting. I know that the WEWS engineer visits here occasionally, perhaps he'll spot this thread on his next visit.


And unfortunately, the problem isn't quite as clear cut as I've presented it. Here's another wrinkle. I have four episodes of Lost on my hard drive at the moment. The first three of them exhibit the behavior that I've described here. The most recent one, though, is different. It plays perfectly - as long as you don't mind silence. The video is flawless, but the PS3 sees no audio whatsoever in the stream.


All four of them play perfectly on all of my various PC players (MyHD, Windows Media, Zoom Player, Media Player Classic, VLC). All four of them have identical A/V parameters:


General

ID : 1

Complete name : G:\\DriveD\\Lost\\Lost-090204-2100.tp

Format : MPEG-TS

File size : 7.24 GiB

Duration : 1h 1mn

Overall bit rate : 16.7 Mbps


Video

ID : 81 (0x51)

Menu ID : 5 (0x5)

Format : MPEG Video

Format version : Version 2

Format profile : [email protected]

Format settings, Matrix : Default

Duration : 1h 1mn

Bit rate mode : Variable

Bit rate : 15.7 Mbps

Nominal bit rate : 38.8 Mbps

Width : 1 280 pixels

Height : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 16/9

Frame rate : 59.940 fps

Standard : Component

Colorimetry : 4:2:0

Scan type : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.284


Audio

ID : 84 (0x54)

Menu ID : 5 (0x5)

Format : AC-3

Format/Info : Audio Coding 3

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 384 Kbps

Channel(s) : 6 channels

Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz

Video delay : -558ms

Language : English


I'm going to try to capture a bunch of WEWS programs over the next few days just to see which ones work and which ones fail. Maybe a few more data points will help.


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## Vchat20

Well, like I already stated: Transport streams especially from OTA and QAM sources are the equivalent of raw/dirty data and may or may not play nice with certain applications depending on how resilient they are. The video and audio data probably is not the issue, but rather the header/PSIP/metadata that is included in the transport stream. Unless you are willing to fight with WEWS/WJW to fix it, a program like VideoRedo that is designed to leave the video and audio data untouched but strip/fix said extraneous data will do the job with minimal fuss. Or if the MyHD software has an option of producing a 'Program Stream' (classic .mpeg or .mpg files), that should solve all the problems right away.


And in the case of the transport stream container: Yes, it can contain any multitude of video and audio formats. But in the case of OTA, it is strictly MPEG2 video and AC3 audio to keep it compliant with the limited decoders in current ATSC tuners. They COULD do PCM audio, but that results in much higher bitrates, no capability for surround audio, and with subchannels it is wasted bandwidth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15755129
> 
> 
> Your parrots are on topic, because they watch digital TV and downconverted HDTV on a CECB.



Did you know that parrot behaviorist and vets recommend an HD television for birds,because of their acute vision. They actually see more detail in the HD picture then we do! Now how they know this, I have no idea but that's what they say.


----------



## dennispap

President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dennispap* /forum/post/15755851
> 
> 
> President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here
> 
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/



Interesting find! Though, I don't see the part where the president "won't sign until he hears" what we have to say.


He doesn't have much time, of course.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15755691
> 
> 
> I don't think that the MyHD is the issue, but I certainly welcome Inundated's offer of a capture from his HD card. Keep in mind that you'd probably just want to capture a few seconds of signal. These files get big in a hurry. And 5-10 seconds is plenty to see whether or not it works.



OK, I'll set up the USB tuner and dip into WEWS' stream a few times - during locally-run HD programming, during upconverted programming, and during whatever ABC runs in HD tonight. That'll give you three data points on my end.


It certainly can't hurt!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15755691
> 
> 
> Trip's point about an encoder setting is quite interesting. I know that the WEWS engineer visits here occasionally, perhaps he'll spot this thread on his next visit.



My gut feeling is that Trip's onto something here. I don't remember a WEWS engineering type visiting, though.


----------



## dennispap




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15755947
> 
> 
> Interesting find! Though, I don't see the part where the president "won't sign until he hears" what we have to say.
> 
> 
> He doesn't have much time, of course.



The president part was in this article
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...Delay_Bill.php


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15755947
> 
> 
> Interesting find! Though, I don't see the part where the president "won't sign until he hears" what we have to say.
> 
> 
> He doesn't have much time, of course.



Regardless, I submitted my comments.


On a side note, I absolutely LOVE how they updated the whitehouse.gov site. It's actually worth checking out now!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dennispap* /forum/post/15755851
> 
> 
> President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here
> 
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/



I think this is just a BS "we care and we want to hear from you" marketing ploy. BO has already expressed support for the delay.

That and collect more emails for DNC campaign spam!


But, to be on the safe side, I did as I do every November: I voted six times.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dennispap* /forum/post/15755851
> 
> 
> President Obama said he will not sign the DTV transaction act into law on Monday until he hears what the public has to say, you can comment here
> 
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/



Oh I have something to say. Something that would get me tossed into gitmo, so I'll refrain!!
























I don't think the president is a fan of my **style** of writing as the people here are.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15752931
> 
> 
> The recordings play fine on my PC. And, yes, it is certainly possible to convert the recording into one that the PS3 will play using software. But that defeats the purpose, which is ease-of-use. There should be no need for an extra step.
> 
> 
> The transport stream is encoded in MPEG2 and AC3. It's 1280x720x59.94 at about 17Mbps.
> 
> 
> The problem is between WEWS and the PlayStation3. WEWS streams play fine everywhere except the PS3. But the PS3 plays streams from all other networks without difficulty. And it plays streams from other ABC affiliates without difficulty. So the problem is linked solely to the intersection between WEWS and the PS3.
> 
> 
> Anybody else here using a PS3?




Jim... is it just "Lost" or all WEWS programming? Does local originated programming play? Syndicated?


----------



## nickdawg











































































I think I'll ask the obvious question here, why are you watching TV shows on a PS3? Why not watch TV on TV?


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## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15756441
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> I think I'll ask the obvious question here, why are you watching TV shows on a PS3? Why not watch TV on TV?



Maybe because the PS3 is connected to a tv and he would rather watch the shows time-shifted? *shrug*


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15756458
> 
> 
> Maybe because the PS3 is connected to a tv and he would rather watch the shows time-shifted? *shrug*



That's why we have DVRs. They time shift shows without all the hassle.


I swear, technology is getting more absurd every day. Just watch it, one day there will be a microwave oven capable of recording and playing back TV shows. Or an oven with internet access. Or a refrigerator with a built in phone. Or a toilet paper holder with wifi.


----------



## Inundated

From that B&C article:



> Quote:
> President Barack Obama, as part of his pledge of openness and transparency, said he would give the public five days to comment on bills before he signed them.



So it sounds like this isn't "President Obama wants more comment on the DTV Delay Bill", but just part of the standard procedure in the Obama White House. Besides, the Obama transition team came up with this in the first place, so they're not likely to delay him signing it for any reason other than a general delay as quoted above.


The faulty wording our poster here picked up on is in the headline, not in the article.


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## Inundated

Using a PS3 as a "media center" is entirely within its mission, by the way. It is not just a game machine.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15756441
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> I think I'll ask the obvious question here, why are you watching TV shows on a PS3? Why not watch TV on TV?



His computer is his DVR. The PS3 is networked to his computer.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/15756351
> 
> 
> Jim... is it just "Lost" or all WEWS programming? Does local originated programming play? Syndicated?



Good question. As was reported earlier, I had trouble with a recording of Jeopardy, but I haven't tested a lot of other shows. I'm doing that now - I've got eight shows scheduled to capture this evening. Local News, Network news, primetime shows (HD and non-HD), late night shows. I'll report tomorrow on what works and what doesn't.


And, yes, I use my PS3 as the playback device for the programs captured by my computer. Isn't that what everyone uses their PS3 for? I've heard you can play games with it, but that really doesn't interest me. The main purpose of a PS3 is to play audio/video media - BluRay discs, upsampled DVDs, captured TV shows, music library playlists, other audio/video downloaded or streamed from the internet, digital photo slide shows, etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15756337
> 
> 
> Oh I have something to say. Something that would get me tossed into gitmo, so I'll refrain!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> I don't think the president is a fan of my **style** of writing as the people here are.



Let me ask the obvious: Who say's you have fans?


You're a legend in you own mind.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15757102
> 
> 
> Good question. As was reported earlier, I had trouble with a recording of Jeopardy, but I haven't tested a lot of other shows. I'm doing that now - I've got eight shows scheduled to capture this evening. Local News, Network news, primetime shows (HD and non-HD), late night shows. I'll report tomorrow on what works and what doesn't.



I don't think I'm gonna make it to my laptop upstairs in time for the 6 PM news (and I have to rescan my USB HDTV stick because I've been out of town), but I'll get WNT, Jeopardy, some prime time and part of the 11 PM news, Nightline and Kimmel.


BTW, I invited Nitewatchman into the thread...he says he'll try to get over here.


----------



## JJkizak

You can change the "TP ending to "MPG" on the MY-HD 120 card captures as I do to plop it into the Sony Vegas editor. Although I haven't captured anything in months and I don't know if all the different apps will play it. The PS-3 is supposed to play anything including streams.

JJK


----------



## Nitewatchman

Hi, everyone -- Probably can't be of much help for Jim's problem -- FWIW, My best guess though after reading through some of the posts involved is that I suspect vchat is on the right track -- Here's some thoughts though, again FWIW :



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It could be an encoder setting on their end. I've heard in the Cincinnati thread about some software not handling one or two of the local stations because of a flag in the video feed. I wish I could remember the details, but Nitewatchman had a good analysis.



Oh, That was just a dumb thing on my part as I didn't realize they were/are sending Telecine("Pulldown") flags, and at the time I was using a demuxer(and some editing software), developed mostly for use in Europe where they don't generally use Telecine flags, and which I also didn't realize didn't support those flags. It also wasn't an issue for playback or decoding. I think somewhere In the Cincinnati thread I went into some of a bit of what that actually means in some detail.


I probably wasn't too clear in some of those posts in Cincy thread(my fault), but in Summary --- WLWT and some other stations sending the telecine flags in area weren't/aren't doing anything "wrong", that's perfectly normal and is supported by MPEG2 ... although oddly enough some decoders which work fine with it for 1080i or 480i, however apparently don't support it properly when the telecine flags are utilized by a station sending 720p -- what happens when that's an issue is that those decoders "drop" frames) ... And I also don't think the specific issue involved would be involved for Jim's issue ...


----------------------------------------------------



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately when it comes to the OTA transport streams, this data is the equivalent of dirty/raw data and the format of such varies between stations....





> Quote:
> Well, like I already stated: Transport streams especially from OTA and QAM sources are the equivalent of raw/dirty data and may or may not play nice with certain applications depending on how resilient they are. The video and audio data probably is not the issue, but rather the header/PSIP/metadata that is included in the transport stream.



I'd bet Vchat is on the right track, and I'm thinking along those same lines regarding the most likely issue involved.


I don't know, but for the most part I also doubt it is because there is really anything that is necessarily "wrong" with WEWS's TS, or PSIP/etc ...


I know nothing about the PS3 and any oddities it might have regarding demuxing ATSC compliant MPEG2 Transport streams and any oddities that might be involved regarding properly identifying and decoding the Elementary MPEG2 Video/AC3 audio streams :


But I do know certian demuxers and other software tools I've used seem to run into certian "oddities" with certian stations transport streams, and not others, whearas other software that do the same things have no problems, and I can also find, in these cases nothing actually "wrong" with the TS's or what the stations are doing ----- Especially regarding one demuxer and one particular station in my area's anudio stream(even if there are NO errors found with various "error checking" software in the TS or the AC3 Stream), or in other cases when there are certian errors in the stream involved, such as can sometimes occur due to continuity/TEI errors because of "reception issues", or for other reasons on the "station end", such as say, a corrupted packet in a AC3 audio stream here or there, or video/audio timestamp gaps/etc ....



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliand* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is quite possible to translate these files into a format that WILL play. That can be done through transcoding (ala PSM or TVersity), or through standalone software like TsMuxer or VideoReDo. In fact, even a simple recreation of the file using TsMuxer without any recoding will also allow the video to play. Same exact MPG2 data, same exact AC3 audio, no recoding at all, just recreating the basic TS envelope allows it to work.



Given TSmuxer works ...What happens if you run MPEG2repair on it ?


I don't know/didn't investigate whether your cap card or software used for the cap is stripping stuff out of the TS you aren't "using"(such as null packets, PSIP, streams for subchannels/etc) ....


But, Maybe try running a cap from WEWS that won't play/won't play properly on the PS3 through MPEG2repair -- Which will strip out everything from the TS except the PAT/PMT and elementary Video/audio streams you want, the PIDs will be renumbered as well - otherwise I think the TS pretty much stays as WEWS would send it except for any errors repaired.


Then see if the file processed with MPEG2repair will play properly on the PS3, and also maybe attach the MPEG2repair error log invloved to a post here, as it might be interesting to see what's in there error wise(if anything) ....


If you don't have it, you can get MPEG2repair here (just scroll a bit to find it) :

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/secti...taltv-dvb-hdtv 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliand* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem is between WEWS and the PlayStation3. WEWS streams play fine everywhere except the PS3.



Probably very unlikely te following is involved, but only other possibility I can think of at present might involve the following --- Only reason I'm even bringing it up is because of what you're experiencing, and because I think a lot of hardware/software for HTPC would probably just ignore broadcast flag "issues'(MCE would be an exception to that, and I also thought perhaps hardware such as PS3 might be an exception as well). and, I don't know, and I haven't actually tested this, but running it through TsMuxer might just "strip out" the "broadcast flag" stuff :


At first after reading through the posts involved with your issue, I wondered if maybe there was some sort of possibility implementation by WEWS of the ATSC redistrubtion control descriptor (the infamous "broadcast flag") might be involved ... But, I looked at the TSreader caps of WEWS on Trip's site, and I didn't see any sign of that in their streams, at least at the time the caps were taken, as it is possible it doesn't have to be sent all the time ... If it were there, It would probably most likely show up in the PMT ... For example, you'll see it via the "fox splicer" from Fox affiliates when Fox programming is running in the PMT for the program stream involved like this :


Descriptor: ATSC Redistribution Control Descriptor


If that were an issue, though I'd expect others (such as using MCE) might be having some issues ...


Also, I'd be surprised if the RC descriptor was in WEWS stream, since it isn't in the TSreader caps on rabbitears, and since WCPO here (scripps+ABC affiliate as mentioned) doesn't have it in their stream either ....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nitewatchman* /forum/post/15759159
> 
> 
> Probably very unlikely this is involved, but only other(again very unlikely I'd think) possibility I can think of at present might involve the following --- Only reason I'm even bringing it up is because of what you're experiencing, and because I think a lot of hardware/software for HTPC would probably just ignore broadcast flag "issues'(MCE would be an exception to that, and I also thought perhaps hardware such as PS3 might be an exception as well). and, I don't know, and I haven't actually tested this, but running it through TsMuxer might just "strip out" the "broadcast flag" stuff :
> 
> 
> But to get this out of the way just in case it might be a "possible issue" involved : At first after reading through the posts involved with your issue, I wondered if maybe there was some sort of possibility implementation by WEWS of the ATSC redistrubtion control descriptor (the infamous "broadcast flag") might be involved ... But, I looked at the TSreader caps of WEWS on Trip's site, and I didn't see any sign of that in their streams, at least at the time the caps were taken, as it is possible it doesn't have to be sent all the time ... If it were there, It would probably most likely show up in the PMT ... For example, you'll see it via the "fox splicer" from Fox affiliates when Fox programming is running in the PMT for the program stream involved like this :



I'd like to be clear on what you mean by an "infamous broadcast flag." The only type of flags I've ever heard of are the one's that cable companies use to keep you from duplicating a broadcast, i.e. 0x02 which would limit you to copy once and you would not be able to do any transfer.


This type of flag however cannot be implemented on a local channel. By law, locals have to be "copy freely."


I'm probably way off base on what you're talking about which is why I'm asking for clarification.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually hookbill, ATSC has had a copy flag feature for a while much similar to the one used by cableco's. And in some cases, some stations have used it or still are using it. But that's as far as my knowledge goes on the subject. But I do remember there being a fiasco with NBC regarding this copy flag a while back.


----------



## Nitewatchman

Edit : vchat Re: ^ Yeah, It's "turned off"(copy freely as it should be), currently, but as I noted earlier, it's there from Fox's encoder via any station using the feed from the splicer, currently, during Fox programming. And, several other stations down here using Flexicoders(including one PBS station and 2 CBS affiliates, and that might be partly a "CBS" thing as well as a "Flexicoder" thing) which as I recall had to be updated to support the Broadcast flag when they thought they'd be able to use it for "copy once" status have the RC descriptor in their streams in the case of the flexicoder stations here It shows up in their PMTs via TSReader as "ATSC redistribution Control Descriptor:ff "...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15759217
> 
> 
> I'd like to be clear on what you mean by an "infamous broadcast flag." The only type of flags I've ever heard of are the one's that cable companies use to keep you from duplicating a broadcast, i.e. 0x02 which would limit you to copy once and you would not be able to do any transfer.
> 
> 
> This type of flag however cannot be implemented on a local channel. By law, locals have to be "copy freely."



This why I almost didn't post about "that part"







--- Just kidding!


You're not off base, regarding the current law as it applies to "copy freely" and broadcasters signals, but nevertheless The RC descriptior can still be present and cause issues in some cases -- Here's several links with some info :


A lot of info and posts about RC descriptor in this thread(there was a particular one of interest I know I had read on this thread posted by Ron/Dr1394, but I couldn't dig that particular one up) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=3600 


Microsoft confirms Windows adheres to broadcast flag :

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9946780-7.html 


NBC, Microsoft raise the Broadcast flag :

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/61974 

Microsoft and NBC enforce the Nonexistant Broadcast Flag, WTF? 

NBC - Vista Copy-Protection snafu reminds us why DRM stinks


----------



## hookbill

I must be living in a cave! How I never heard about any of this amazes me. Thanks for the links and info.


----------



## Inundated

I have all the captures I mentioned, ready to send up to Jim, if I can figure out how. I haven't looked at how big they are, for one, and I'm tired, and going to bed shortly I hope.


I'll check back tomorrow.


Nitewatchman, thanks for joining us in here and for helping out. Those TSReader caps of the locals here were all done by me, for Trip's site, and I don't THINK I took them in network programming hours. I seem to recall I did most of 'em on my laptop during the day. I don't know if that means anything or not.










The outlying stations were done in a car on a road trip (WMFD, WGGN, etc.), as were all of the Youngstown stations.


----------



## nickdawg

I was flipping through the channels, some late night TV viewing and I noticed that HD Net Movies on channel 472 is missing. Did I miss something from TWC? Or the network? Are we losing another HD Tier channel? I hope not cuz I hate the idea of paying $6.95 a month for only three channels.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15758246
> 
> 
> You can change the "TP ending to "MPG" on the MY-HD 120 card captures as I do to plop it into the Sony Vegas editor. Although I haven't captured anything in months and I don't know if all the different apps will play it. The PS-3 is supposed to play anything including streams.
> 
> JJK



There are numerous audio and video formats that the PS3 will not play natively, requiring server transcoding.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15760398
> 
> 
> I was flipping through the channels, some late night TV viewing and I noticed that HD Net Movies on channel 472 is missing. Did I miss something from TWC? Or the network? Are we losing another HD Tier channel? I hope not cuz I hate the idea of paying $6.95 a month for only three channels.



Probably just an outage. I don't see TW dropping one without dropping the other. I'll bet it's up today.


Oh and I'm still getting Universal HD and you are correct it's suppose to be part of the package so I don't know why I'm slipping through the cracks. I'll bet it has to do with cable cards.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15759561
> 
> 
> I must be living in a cave!



That doesn't come as news to any of us!










Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I did all the captures but I haven't been able to test them yet. At the moment, my 5yo is watching her Animaniacs DVD, so I know better than to interrupt that! But I'll get to test the captures later today. In addition, I'll try some of the experiments that NiteWatchman describes and post the results.


Inundated, I'm not sure what the best way would be to send me any clips. But there's definitely no need to send anything big. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15749718
> 
> 
> The FCC changed the rules today and purposely made it a lot more painful for stations to kill analog. Some stations are backpedaling and not bothering, thus I now have to basically throw away my big list of stations killing analog...
> 
> 
> - Trip



I'm confused. The bill states specifically:


> Quote:
> SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION.
> 
> 
> (a) Permissive Early Termination Under Existing Requirements- Nothing in this Act is intended to prevent a licensee of a television broadcast station from terminating the broadcasting of such station's analog television signal (and continuing to broadcast exclusively in the digital television service) prior to the date established by law under section 3002(b) of the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act of 2005 for termination of all licenses for full-power television stations in the analog television service (as amended by section 2 of this Act) so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).



What is the FCC doing to make it "painful" for the stations to shut off analog "early" (formerly known as "on time")?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15761632
> 
> 
> I'm confused. The bill states specifically:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the FCC doing to make it "painful" for the stations to shut off analog "early" (formerly known as "on time")?


*so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act, including the flexible procedures established in the Matter of Third Periodic Review of the Commission's Rules and Policies Affecting the Conversion to Digital Television (FCC 07-228, MB Docket No. 07-91, released December 31, 2007).*


Trip will probably give you a solid answer, but I'll bet it lays somewhere in here. This looks like a big loop hole to me.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15761632
> 
> 
> What is the FCC doing to make it "painful" for the stations to shut off analog "early" (formerly known as "on time")?



Here is the relevant part of your quoted text:



> Quote:
> so long as such prior termination is conducted in accordance with the Federal Communications Commission's requirements in effect on the date of enactment of this Act,



Those requirements include the guidelines put into place Thursday, before the bill takes effect probably next week.


Among the hurdles, the FCC will determine if the "early" (formerly "on time") shut off "is in the public interest", and will consider factors like local DTV coupon redemption - and multiple requests from a market to shut off analog early. (Basically, they don't want an entire market to shut off analog on February 17th, particularly if they don't feel the market is "ready" for the transition.)


This is already on the record.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15761656
> 
> 
> Trip will probably give you a solid answer, but I'll bet it lays somewhere in here. This looks like a big loop hole to me.



Quit looking over my shoulder, hookbill!











Trip can fill in the rest, but you're right, that's basically it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15761662
> 
> 
> Here is the relevant part of your quoted text:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those requirements include the guidelines put into place Thursday, before the bill takes effect probably next week.
> 
> 
> Among the hurdles, the FCC will determine if the "early" (formerly "on time") shut off "is in the public interest", and will consider factors like local DTV coupon redemption - and multiple requests from a market to shut off analog early. (Basically, they don't want an entire market to shut off analog on February 17th, particularly if they don't feel the market is "ready" for the transition.)
> 
> 
> This is already on the record.



Heh Heh...beat you by (Maxwell Smart) that much!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15761677
> 
> 
> Heh Heh...beat you by (Maxwell Smart) that much!!



But I had the details.










Though you probably had a bird or two distracting you...


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15760398
> 
> 
> I was flipping through the channels, some late night TV viewing and I noticed that HD Net Movies on channel 472 is missing. Did I miss something from TWC? Or the network? Are we losing another HD Tier channel? I hope not cuz I hate the idea of paying $6.95 a month for only three channels.



I Noticed that if it is still the problem they moved HD Net Movies to the 800s First HD SDV channel


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15761741
> 
> 
> I Noticed that if it is still the problem they moved HD Net Movies to the 800s First HD SDV channel



That doesn't make sense. If it's SDV you should still get it at it's current location.


I doubt it's still a problem since nickdawg hasn't commented.


----------



## TheWGP

Question: I just hooked up an antenna to my Dish ViP722 receiver for a third recording tuner, and I've got everything BUT WOIO - is this situation unusual at all? I know there are interference issues, but I'm not getting ANYTHING on frequency 10, not even anything from the other station.


The thing that seems odd is that I get WKYC on frequency 2 (with a 62-66 signal, but it locks reliably). Isn't frequency 10 easier to get than frequency 2? WKYC's antenna, according to antennaweb, is 8.4 miles out, and WOIO's is 8.4 - both in the Parma antenna farm, I'm guessing. I'm about as far west as you get in Shaker, off Van Aken almost up to Shaker Square, so my location is about as good as it's going to get on the East Side, I think, short of being further south.


Oh, and I also get WVIZ digital on channel 26, albeit with a 60-61 signal. I'd read they were on a weak temporary antenna, so I'm surprised to even get them, let alone get them before WOIO.


This just puzzles me all the more about WOIO. It seems like WKYC and WVIZ should be harder to get. I know WKYC will be moving to frequency 17 in June, if their tower is done by then, so that'll help on that front. The really ironic thing is that WOIO bills itself as from "Shaker Heights" and I can't seem to pick it up IN Shaker!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWGP* /forum/post/15762553
> 
> 
> Question: I just hooked up an antenna to my Dish ViP722 receiver for a third recording tuner, and I've got everything BUT WOIO - is this situation unusual at all? I know there are interference issues, but I'm not getting ANYTHING on frequency 10, not even anything from the other station.
> 
> 
> The thing that seems odd is that I get WKYC on frequency 2 (with a 62-66 signal, but it locks reliably). Isn't frequency 10 easier to get than frequency 2? WKYC's antenna, according to antennaweb, is 8.4 miles out, and WOIO's is 8.4 - both in the Parma antenna farm, I'm guessing. I'm about as far west as you get in Shaker, off Van Aken almost up to Shaker Square, so my location is about as good as it's going to get on the East Side, I think, short of being further south.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I also get WVIZ digital on channel 26, albeit with a 60-61 signal. I'd read they were on a weak temporary antenna, so I'm surprised to even get them, let alone get them before WOIO.
> 
> 
> This just puzzles me all the more about WOIO. It seems like WKYC and WVIZ should be harder to get. I know WKYC will be moving to frequency 17 in June, if their tower is done by then, so that'll help on that front. The really ironic thing is that WOIO bills itself as from "Shaker Heights" and I can't seem to pick it up IN Shaker!



Welcome to the board! I have a ViP 622 so I'm familiar with your receiver. WOIO is running an extremely low powered transmitter because they have to protect a Canadian ch 10 in London Ontario. This does not mean you shouldn't be able to receive the signal in Shaker, but it does mean you need the right antenna.


If they were running at full power you could get away with a UHF antenna for the high-VHF band (7-13). However seeing that they are weak, you need an antenna rated to receive upper VHF (if you are getting ch 3 [rf 2] then your antenna theoretically should work). The only thing you did not share was the type and location of your antenna. If it's indoors, you need to aim it out a west-facing window. Walls do a dandy job in attenuating radio waves.


I live right by the transmitters (.8 - 1.3 miles away) and have seen drastic differences when my antenna is looking out a window vs. through a wall. Even this close, the walls mess up the reception.


BTW: WKYC's tower and WOIO's & WBNX's towers (and WQHS if you speak Spanish) are next to each other along the Broadview at West Ridgewood Rds. corridor, so if you are aimed at one, you are hitting them all (WJW is a little bit farther south and west of the "pack", as well as WEWS and WUAB).


BTW: For fun & giggles try scanning rf 41. If you have an EAST facing window to aim your antenna you may be surprised by the result


----------



## TheWGP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15763122
> 
> 
> Welcome to the board! I have a ViP 622 so I'm familiar with your receiver. WOIO is running an extremely low powered transmitter because they have to protect a Canadian ch 10 in London Ontario. This does not mean you shouldn't be able to receive the signal in Shaker, but it does mean you need the right antenna.
> 
> 
> If they were running at full power you could get away with a UHF antenna for the high-VHF band (7-13). However seeing that they are weak, you need an antenna rated to receive upper VHF (if you are getting ch 3 [rf 2] then your antenna theoretically should work). The only thing you did not share was the type and location of your antenna. If it's indoors, you need to aim it out a west-facing window. Walls do a dandy job in attenuating radio waves.
> 
> 
> I live right by the transmitters (.8 - 1.3 miles away) and have seen drastic differences when my antenna is looking out a window vs. through a wall. Even this close, the walls mess up the reception.
> 
> 
> BTW: WKYC's tower and WOIO's & WBNX's towers (and WQHS if you speak Spanish) are next to each other along the Broadview at West Ridgewood Rds. corridor, so if you are aimed at one, you are hitting them all (WJW is a little bit farther south and west of the "pack", as well as WEWS and WUAB).
> 
> 
> BTW: For fun & giggles try scanning rf 41. If you have an EAST facing window to aim your antenna you may be surprised by the result



Thanks for your response!

Oops - sorry for not including specific antenna info. I'm running a Philips SDV2210/17 rabbit ear set indoors. Here's the link to it on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-SDV221.../dp/B000UPA7CG 

I picked it up at Walmart for about 10 bucks, figuring I'd give a cheap rabbit-ear set a try before spending more money, given my location. It's rated for low and high VHF, which might be why I'm picking up WKYC all the way down on frequency 2, and why I'm surprised I'm not getting a peep out of WOIO.


Didn't really expect much - hence I was surprised to see it picking up what it is. On one scan with the antenna right next to the (huge, southwest-facing) bay window, I had 15 channels picked up, including, oddly enough, WEAO, which AntennaWeb says is coming from 27 miles away, which was pretty shocking. I obviously lost that when I started fine-tuning and repositioned the antenna (the signal was a 58-60) but it's no big loss since I can bring in WVIZ.


At the moment, I've got WKYC, WEWS, WJW and WVIZ coming in reliably, so really all I want is WOIO. Note: I GET more than this (including WBNX and WQHS) but I don't USE them. I don't know if there's another antenna that might work better? I've read that some of the "expensive" antennas aren't even worth much, and I don't think I'd better try for a UHF-only antenna given the situation with VHF channels in the Cleveland area. An outdoor antenna really isn't an option, because I have diplexers already in use to feed TV2 from the 722 back to the existing house wiring, and I'd have to run cable quite a long way to feed the antenna input into that.


One thing: On one dipole of the Philips antenna, the next-to-last segment was slightly bent out of the box. It's not much - it still retracts and extends okay, with a bit of extra force - would getting a replacement possibly help at all? I've specifically read, also, that the Philips MANT510 (the amplified one) isn't very good.


----------



## Nitewatchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15761079
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I did all the captures but I haven't been able to test them yet. At the moment, my 5yo is watching her Animaniacs DVD, so I know better than to interrupt that! But I'll get to test the captures later today. In addition, I'll try some of the experiments that NiteWatchman describes and post the results.



Thought a little more about this, given that remuxing seems to fix the issue, and had another thought that hopefully might be of some use. This is going to be even more "long-winded" than the last one(sorry! I'm doing my best) -- Probably should have taken this to PM, but in case it's of use to anyone else, thought I'd go ahead and post it here :


You said your capture card/software was using a *.tp file ... If so, usually, I think a *.tp file would mostly involve Only saving/capturing the streams(such as video/audio) specific to the program stream or to say it another way the "subchannel"(for stations that have those) of interest, rather than capturing the entire TS(transport stream) as the station is sending it(including all the metadata/PSIP and all the subchannels and null packets). Hence the "P" for "program" in the "TP".


Looking through some of the "AV/Parameters" you posted for a "lost" cap here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=16968 


And comparing it with the TSreader cap for WEWS at rabbit ears ---


It is immediately apparent that the PIDs (packet identifiers) have been renumbered - For example, presumably by the capture card or software ... Other "stuff" could be happening as well ... I'm just guessing, but perhaps the capture card/software is demuxing the audio/video streams, and remuxing/"placing them" in it's own "TP" container. Which *perhaps* may or may not be competely "to specs" the PS3 is expecting for TS files ... In other words, much or all what you "get" from the "TP" from your card/capture may *NOT* the same as what WEWS sends in their transport stream, except for the Elementary Video/Audio streams themselves ...


OTOH, it's also possible that the only thing that's happening is that the PID's are being renumbered, and anything that's not needed (such as PSIP and null packets, or other "subchannel's" audio/video - latter involved for WEWS) is being stripped, (which is the same thing MPEG2repair does, except it also performs error checking and repair when possible) and otherwise, It's still the "same" as the TS WEWS is sending (With the same timecode info, PAT/PMT/etc) ...


You might want to try opening the TP in TSreader(set it's input source to "Transport file", that will work for TS, I'd think it should work for your TP files as well) and see what's there (TSreader doesn't have to support your capture card to do that) ....


In either case -- I think It's important to understand(expect you already do) --- The actual Video/audio data in Elemetary MPEG2 Video/AC-3 Audio streams sent by WEWS stay just as they are encoded by WEWS and as they are captured by your card regardless and including if you say, use Tsremuxer, or use VideoRedo to convert to a different file contanier, such as to MPG PS file -- MPG, DVR-MS .... A bit of an exception involved would be if say, VideoRedo finds errors and needs to "fix" them or drop audio or video frames, or if MPEG2repair finds errors and fixes them ... Although that doesn't change the actual "encoding" of the video/audio, it just removes small parts of it, or replaces "corrupt data" with for example data which will replace "on screen corruption" with "black" pixels to keep the audio/video in sync if frames have to be dropped, and to keep players from choking ....


This might seem to make things even more confusing regarding :


Why then, or how is it possible your TP's (including "renamed to TS) work just fine with your PS3 everywhere else, except for in some cases with WEWS ? --


Well, my best guess (only a guess) at this point is still that it may have something to do with something I said in my last post(which I've quoted below), but also *potentially* specifically involving what your capture card/capture card software *may be* doing, particularly perhaps if what it's "doing" to create the TP involves any muxing/demuxing :



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *me* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know nothing about the PS3 and any oddities it might have regarding demuxing ATSC compliant MPEG2 Transport streams and any oddities that might be involved regarding properly identifying and decoding the Elementary MPEG2 Video/AC3 audio streams :
> 
> 
> But I do know certian demuxers and other software tools I've used seem to run into certian "oddities" with certian stations transport streams, and not others, whearas other software that do the same things have no problems, and I can also find, in these cases nothing actually "wrong" with the TS's or what the stations are doing ----- Especially regarding one demuxer and one particular station in my area's anudio stream(even if there are NO errors found with various "error checking" software in the TS or the AC3 Stream), or in other cases when there are certian errors in the stream involved, such as can sometimes occur due to continuity/TEI errors because of "reception issues", or for other reasons on the "station end", such as say, a corrupted packet in a AC3 audio stream here or there, or video/audio timestamp gaps/etc ....



Now -- *If that's it* -- I also might not have said that quite right, because in some cases(not all, some have seemed specific to *something* with the TS, such as involving timestamp gaps) certian *oddities* like this I've ran into involving certian software tools aren't specific to the *transport stream*, but instead seem specific to the elementary AC3 *Audio Stream* (Possibly could be specific video stream as well, but I don't think I've run across that) ...


For example, with WSTR (My Network TV) here, MPEG2repair or other software finds no "errors" with their TS and no corrupted audio or video frames/etc). But when I demux it(even if I had Capped to a MPG PS instead of TS) with one particular demuxer which has NO problems of this sort with any other stations' streams in the area -- It demuxes the video just fine, but, for say, a two hour capture, it will only get so far with the audio stream(say about 15 minutes or so) and then can't "go" any farther ... thus, for something I want run a IVTC(inverse telecine) and want to to reencode(such as X264/MPEG4 for video, AAC for audio) I end up with 2 hours of video and 15 Minutes of audio! However, if I use a different demuxer, BOTH the video and Audio streams(the entire 2 hours) demux just fine ...


And I don't *think* (again just a guess) it's because "certain stations" I've ran into such issues with are doing something wrong. because again, If I use other software to process the streams involved(and do note that I haven't run into anything like that with WCPO's streams and the particular demuxer involved), there are no problems ....


The best I've been able to come up with is that I suspect there just may be some incompatiabilities involved between how some stations have things set up and/or involving the specific equipment they're using(certian "brand" of equipment/etc) and some demuxers or muxers (I've only ran into this with software tools, but I'd think it could apply to hardware as well) ...


In any case, when issues such as these arise -- I've heard, and it seems to be the case in your situation as well, that Re-Multiplexing (as occurs when you use TSMuxer, or when you convert to MPG/etc with VideoRedo) will Often "fix" this sort of problem .... There may not be another way to "fix it", other than(perhaps) to use different capture card/software that will just cap and dump to disk the entire TS from WEWS, or that does something "differently" regarding muxing and Demuxing and caps to say MPG or DVR-MS container formats. And I suspect it's possible you may just see it "go away" someday if at some poit WEWS makes some changes, perhaps involving installation of new equipment ...


If you DO have another way to make the caps (such as to a "entire" TS, or to MPG or DVR-MS with say WatchHDTV(freeware, don't know if it supports your card though), or for DVR-MS with MCE, or with another capture card) That might be something useful to try.


It might also be useful to know if anyone else using different capture card/different capture card software is having the same problem you are with PS3 and WEWS.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15761975
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense. If it's SDV you should still get it at it's current location.
> 
> 
> I doubt it's still a problem since nickdawg hasn't commented.



No, Shooter is right. It's not on 472 where it should be, but it is on 843. A quick look at the diagnostics screen shows it to be an sdv channel.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15760970
> 
> 
> Probably just an outage. I don't see TW dropping one without dropping the other. I'll bet it's up today.
> 
> 
> Oh and I'm still getting Universal HD and you are correct it's suppose to be part of the package so I don't know why I'm slipping through the cracks. I'll bet it has to do with cable cards.



It was beyond "out". The actual channel was missing from the guide. Not even accessible by entering 4-7-2.


I found it. HD Net Movies is on channel 843. In the SDV test area.


And guess what else, HD Net on 471 and STO HD on 435 are HD-SDV channels. That's the best news.


Maybe that April date isn't BS after all!!


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15764080
> 
> 
> It was beyond "out". The actual channel was missing from the guide. Not even accessible by entering 4-7-2.
> 
> 
> I found it. HD Net Movies is on channel 843. In the SDV test area.
> 
> 
> And guess what else, HD Net on 471 and STO HD on 435 are HD-SDV channels. That's the best news.
> 
> 
> Maybe that April date isn't BS after all!!



If we are all getting sdv now, why can't they add the new HD channels now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15761741
> 
> 
> I Noticed that if it is still the problem they moved HD Net Movies to the 800s First HD SDV channel





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15761975
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense. If it's SDV you should still get it at it's current location.
> 
> 
> I doubt it's still a problem since nickdawg hasn't commented.



...that's what happens when i don't read everything before commenting...

















You guys figured it out. They must have not moved it back for whatever reason.


Also, STO HD and HDNET are SDV.


Shooter, you're in Erie and you have SDV?


----------



## nickdawg

Erie, New Philadelphia, Akron, Canton, Cleveland Suburbs, etc. Are you getting any channels through SDV?


----------



## shooter21198

Yea All of Erie and Suburbs have SDV


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15764166
> 
> 
> Yea All of Erie and Suburbs have SDV



New Philadelphia also has SDV. We've had it enabled I believe for a month or two. At least according to the diagnostic screen.


----------



## hookbill

It still doesn't make sense. Why would they move the channel? They have to be testing still, if SDV is active you wouldn't notice the difference like nickdawg said previously.


Anyway, SDV is definitely not active in my area, there are no signs of life on the diagnostic screen and we still are running SARA.


And the reason you don't have more HD is they are not going to give it until they make SDV available for everyone, so if you are actively on SDV now the rest of us ex Adelphia are not.


You guys in Erie, are you getting SARA or Navigator software?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15764166
> 
> 
> Yea All of Erie and Suburbs have SDV





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15764186
> 
> 
> New Philadelphia also has SDV. We've had it enabled I believe for a month or two. At least according to the diagnostic screen.



Here's my next question. Do you have mystro Navigator guide or the SARA program guide?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15764247
> 
> 
> It still doesn't make sense. Why would they move the channel? They have to be testing still, if SDV is active you wouldn't notice the difference like nickdawg said previously.
> 
> 
> Anyway, SDV is definitely not active in my area, there are no signs of life on the diagnostic screen and we still are running SARA.
> 
> 
> And the reason you don't have more HD is they are not going to give it until they make SDV available for everyone, so if you are actively on SDV now the rest of us ex Adelphia are not.
> 
> 
> You guys in Erie, are you getting SARA or Navigator software?



You see, hookbill. They started adding test channels around the end of January. Things were moving painfully slow until that interview with Jasso at OMW. After that, all of the sports PPV package channels moved to SDV. Just this week, channels 319-330 went SDV and those three HD channels this week as well.


THEY DID ALL THIS IN ABOUT 3 1/2 WEEKS!!


































































It took almost four months to move about the same amount of channels to Digital Simulcast! SDV is supposed to be "new and scary" but they did it.


Just because it is not active on screen, doesn't mean the necessary steps aren't happening behind the scenes. Remember they said "project completed in March". We still have three weeks of February and the month of March. You'll get there when you're ready.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15764299
> 
> 
> You see, hookbill. They started adding test channels around the end of January. Things were moving painfully slow until that interview with Jasso at OMW. After that, all of the sports PPV package channels moved to SDV. Just this week, channels 319-330 went SDV and those three HD channels this week as well.
> 
> 
> THEY DID ALL THIS IN ABOUT 3 1/2 WEEKS!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It took almost four months to move about the same amount of channels to Digital Simulcast! SDV is supposed to be "new and scary" but they did it.
> 
> 
> Just because it is not active on screen, doesn't mean the necessary steps aren't happening behind the scenes. Remember they said "project completed in March". We still have three weeks of February and the month of March. You'll get there when you're ready.



Well, they haven't done diddly squat around here, and until they do you won't get any HD channels, so what's the big deal?


Not only that but you still haven't answered my question about why they would change channels. I'll tell you why, it's because they are testing it.


And I already asked the question about software before you did.


----------



## shooter21198

In Erie I am pretty sure we are on Navigator


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15764443
> 
> 
> 
> Not only that but you still haven't answered my question about why they would change channels. I'll tell you why, it's because they are testing it.



They're not test channels. If I put it on 471 or 435, the channel IS SDV!! I checked the Diagnostic screen on the 4250 box, it has a different screen. And it tells you straight up SDV or NON SDV. STO, HD NET, HDNET Movies, plus the other channels I've lhad on that list all say SDV.


Amd for the record, if all these other areas Erir, New Phil, Akron, probably canton and Y Town too have SDV, we should be seeing some new channels very soon. Plus the ex-Comcast guy said SDV was going live there sometime in February. All these areas with SDV, screw Cleveland!!


Or maybe they can start "testing" the addition of new channels like USA and F/X on their legacy system. I wouldn't mind being a test subject!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15764567
> 
> 
> They're not test channels. If I put it on 471 or 435, the channel IS SDV!! I checked the Diagnostic screen on the 4250 box, it has a different screen. And it tells you straight up SDV or NON SDV. STO, HD NET, HDNET Movies, plus the other channels I've lhad on that list all say SDV.
> 
> 
> Amd for the record, if all these other areas Erir, New Phil, Akron, probably canton and Y Town too have SDV, we should be seeing some new channels very soon. Plus the ex-Comcast guy said SDV was going live there sometime in February. All these areas with SDV, screw Cleveland!!
> 
> 
> Or maybe they can start "testing" the addition of new channels like USA and F/X on their legacy system. I wouldn't mind being a test subject!



My guide on the 4250 is still the same, of course I don't get that package so I can't verify the that HDnet Movies is active.


OK, you've convinced me you've got SDV, but it still won't do you any good until we get it over here, and I am telling you they haven't even started anything. It would appear they still need to get past the point of switching SARA to Navigator before anything can happen and that seems to be the part they can't figure out.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15761079
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I did all the captures but I haven't been able to test them yet. I'll get to test the captures later today.



I finally got a minute to test and report the results of my eight ABC captures from last night. I have not yet had time to do any of Nitewatchman's experiments, but I will as soon as I can. It's going to take me a while just to digest it all!










Last night I captured eight shows from ABC (via my MyHD card, via T/W QAM). Of the eight shows, one (Wife Swap) plays perfectly. Two (ABC World News and Nightline) give the same 80028801 error that I usually get with Lost. The other five shows (20-20, Jeopardy, Jimmy Kimmel, Newschannel 5 at 6, and Supernanny) all play perfect video, but with no audio. The PS3 reports that there is no audio track in the file.


I have no idea why the audio works on Wife Swap, but not on any of the others.


I'm not sure how to interpret this result. I don't see any particular pattern. All eight files report the same internal parameters. Even the SD shows Supernanny and Wife Swap are transmitted in 1280x720x59.94 and appear to use the same bandwidth as the HD shows.


As a quick test, I changed the capture setting to tell my system to capture the entire stream rather than just the single channel, then captured a couple of minutes of the basketball game that is currently on WEWS. The resulting file plays correct video, but still has no sound. So that change doesn't appear to have made any difference.


I'm not sure how the PS3 decides which stream to play - MediaInfo reports that the file now contains two MPEG2 streams and two AC3 audio streams.


I've scheduled a few more captures for this evening with this setting. I should have a bit more time to look at it tomorrow.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15764634
> 
> 
> My guide on the 4250 is still the same, of course I don't get that package so I can't verify the that HDnet Movies is active.
> 
> 
> OK, you've convinced me you've got SDV, but it still won't do you any good until we get it over here, and I am telling you they haven't even started anything. It would appear they still need to get past the point of switching SARA to Navigator before anything can happen and that seems to be the part they can't figure out.



They don't have to switch to Navigator for SDV. They only had to switch here because Assport wasn't SDV-capable. They could have the new version, but they decided to go with their new in house program.


My guess is that they'll start ligthing up SDV on SARA soon, since it is SDV compliant. Remember, that article said nothing about Navigator.


Right now their main concern is getting more HD channels before they lose more customers. That's why so much progress was made here. And its coming to a TV near you soon too.


They'll probably do Navigator later, when they add features like StartOver.


Also, if they were truly having trouble with SARA and Navigator and SDV, their spokes person would not have told a trusted source like OMW that they are expected to be done in March. Lots of industry people read OMW, they're not just blowing smoke up our asses.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15764669
> 
> 
> They don't have to switch to Navigator for SDV. They only had to switch here because Assport wasn't SDV-capable. They could have the new version, but they decided to go with their new in house program.
> 
> 
> My guess is that they'll start ligthing up SDV on SARA soon, since it is SDV compliant. Remember, that article said nothing about Navigator.
> 
> 
> Right now their main concern is getting more HD channels before they lose more customers. That's why so much progress was made here. And its coming to a TV near you soon too.
> 
> 
> They'll probably do Navigator later, when they add features like StartOver.
> 
> 
> Also, if they were truly having trouble with SARA and Navigator and SDV, their spokes person would not have told a trusted source like OMW that they are expected to be done in March. Lots of industry people read OMW, they're not just blowing smoke up our asses.



I don't want to be disrespectful again to this guy who made this statement but even OMW said they wouldn't hold him to that comment. Neither should you or I.


I have absolutely no doubt that the big problem is trying to get SARA converted to Navigator although I fully agree with you there shouldn't be a reason why, at least not one I know about. Even the TW person (sorry, I fogot his name) said the big problem was getting everybody on board.


Have we heard from any ex Comcast people yet? The Erie people are ex Adelphia, are they not?


Let's put it this way. Come April 7th, I'm gonna give a full week extra if there is a HD lineup available like Columbus has I will fully admit I was wrong. If it's not up by then then I'll stick with my Fall date.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15764646
> 
> 
> I finally got a minute to test and report the results of my eight ABC captures from last night. I have not yet had time to do any of Nitewatchman's experiments, but I will as soon as I can. It's going to take me a while just to digest it all!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last night I captured eight shows from ABC (via my MyHD card, via T/W QAM). Of the eight shows, one (Wife Swap) plays perfectly. Two (ABC World News and Nightline) give the same 80028801 error that I usually get with Lost. The other five shows (20-20, Jeopardy, Jimmy Kimmel, Newschannel 5 at 6, and Supernanny) all play perfect video, but with no audio. The PS3 reports that there is no audio track in the file.
> 
> 
> I have no idea why the audio works on Wife Swap, but not on any of the others.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how to interpret this result. I don't see any particular pattern. All eight files report the same internal parameters. Even the SD shows Supernanny and Wife Swap are transmitted in 1280x720x59.94 and appear to use the same bandwidth as the HD shows.
> 
> 
> As a quick test, I changed the capture setting to tell my system to capture the entire stream rather than just the single channel, then captured a couple of minutes of the basketball game that is currently on WEWS. The resulting file plays correct video, but still has no sound. So that change doesn't appear to have made any difference.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how the PS3 decides which stream to play - MediaInfo reports that the file now contains two MPEG2 streams and two AC3 audio streams.
> 
> 
> I've scheduled a few more captures for this evening with this setting. I should have a bit more time to look at it tomorrow.



This reminds me of the time I had problems with cable cards and not getting any sound on a couple of channels. And Hallmark I couldn't get at all (that's when it was digital.)


The headend person I deal with had to do something with the stream itself to fix it. I'm sure you've already figured it out with all the extensive research and help you've had here and you seem to indicate that in your posts.


So it would appear to me that your only solution (without converting) is to have WEWS fix the stream, and I just wonder if that's even possible. Do you intend to pursue it?


Also that's very odd about Wife Swap but just curious, is that an HD show or is it just SD. If it's SD then it probably has that fake Dolby coming out of it.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15764816
> 
> 
> The headend person I deal with had to do something with the stream itself to fix it. I'm sure you've already figured it out with all the extensive research and help you've had here and you seem to indicate that in your posts.
> 
> 
> So it would appear to me that your only solution (without converting) is to have WEWS fix the stream, and I just wonder if that's even possible. Do you intend to pursue it?
> 
> 
> Also that's very odd about Wife Swap but just curious, is that an HD show or is it just SD. If it's SD then it probably has that fake Dolby coming out of it.



I have no idea whether or not WEWS can or would fix the problem. My most reasonable solutions are: 1) Buy a media player that can handle these streams. There are several that would work fine. 2) Wait for Sony to make improvements to the software so that the PS3 is more compatible with these streams. If nearly every other player on the market (both HW and SW) plays these without issue, then so should the PS3.


I also don't know what to make of Wife Swap. It's an SD show, but it's transmitted in full HD (720p) and full Dolby Digital (AC-3). So even if the actual audio and video (not to mention content!







) are junk, to the PS3 it should look just like any of those other shows.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15764963
> 
> 
> I also don't know what to make of Wife Swap. It's an SD show, but it's transmitted in full HD (720p) and full Dolby Digital (AC-3). So even if the actual audio and video *(not to mention content!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) are junk,* to the PS3 it should look just like any of those other shows.



Glad to hear you say that, I was kind of wondering...










There is another member of this forum that does watch that program. I won't mention his name, he knows who he is.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15764793
> 
> 
> I don't want to be disrespectful again to this guy who made this statement but even OMW said they wouldn't hold him to that comment. Neither should you or I.



But at the same time, this guy would not have made such a statement if it were not true. If you say March, and then wait until fall to add channels. The public response would be worse than saying nothing at all(like they usually do).



> Quote:
> I have absolutely no doubt that the big problem is trying to get SARA converted to Navigator although I fully agree with you there shouldn't be a reason why, at least not one I know about. Even the TW person (sorry, I fogot his name) said the big problem was getting everybody on board.



I really hope they're not doing Navigator now. Especially since SARA is capable of SDV, it would be a waste of time. Navigator takes forever too. My old Pioneer box was hit with Navigator in March. The 8300HD didn't get it until the first week of May because they were doing each box model one week at a time. SARA is SDV complaint, no need to change that to add SDV channels.



> Quote:
> Have we heard from any ex Comcast people yet? The Erie people are ex Adelphia, are they not?



The ex-Comcast guy said just last week that his area was supposed to go SDV sometime this month. If Erie is ex-Adelphia, then that means an Adelphia area has SDV too. And if it is firmer Adelphia, that must mean SDV is running on SARA.



> Quote:
> Let's put it this way. Come April 7th, I'm gonna give a full week extra if there is a HD lineup available like Columbus has I will fully admit I was wrong. If it's not up by then then I'll stick with my Fall date.



I'm not expecting a big HD lineup. They're not going to add 15 or 20 channels over night. Plus I doubt I'll see it on the 1st or the 7st, since they usually start in Canton.










regardless, I think your fall date is very, very wrong.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15764963
> 
> 
> 
> I also don't know what to make of Wife Swap. It's an SD show, but it's transmitted in full HD (720p) and full Dolby Digital (AC-3). So even if the actual audio and video (not to mention content!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) are junk, to the PS3 it should look just like any of those other shows.



Wife Swap is NOT 720p. It is 480i SD converted to 720p by the affiliate. It is Dolby Digital, but not surround sound. It's supposed to be 2.0 like all SD programming, but WEWS passes it in "fake" surround sound.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15764516
> 
> 
> In Erie I am pretty sure we are on Navigator



Nickdawg pay attention!!!!!


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15761632
> 
> 
> What is the FCC doing to make it "painful" for the stations to shut off analog "early" (formerly known as "on time")?



From the rules document:


"Consistent with our public interest responsibilities and Congress’ delay of the transition to June 12 to give consumers additional time to prepare, *the Commission reserves the right to limit or reconsider this partial waiver in the event that it determines that analog termination on February 17 by a station or group of stations is contrary to the public interest*. In such event, the Commission will promptly notify the affected station or stations. The Commission may consider such action *if, for example, we find that all or most of the stations in a market will terminate their analog service on February 17, and that the market is one in which many viewers are unprepared for the transition or at risk if the transition proceeds*. In such case, we may require affected stations to submit additional information to explain and justify how their early termination advances the public interest.


[...]


To protect viewer expectations and to carry out the purpose of the Third DTV Periodic procedures, these stations must also broadcast, prior to termination, *the equivalent of 30 days worth of “viewer notifications,”* regarding the station’s intention to terminate its analog service on February 17, 2009, despite the delay in the nationwide deadline.


[...]


We remind stations that if they terminate their analog service prior to the June 12 transition date, *they may operate only a digital facility that is approved for pre-transition service.* Stations that want to begin operating prior to the transition date on a post-transition digital facility that differs from their pre-transition facility must first file a request for digital Special Temporary Authority (STA) to seek Commission approval for an early transition. Pursuant to the Third DTV Periodic Report and Order, a station may request permission to operate its post-transition facility before the transition deadline, provided it demonstrates that it will (1) not cause impermissible interference to *any authorized analog* or pre-transition digital stations; (2) maintain at least its current digital service; and (3) commence full, authorized post-transition operations on the transition deadline. Stations requesting such approval must also indicate whether such early operation would result in loss of their own analog or digital service."


Emphasis mine.


That's the gist of it. Try getting approval on an STA in a week when hundreds are filed at once. It's not happening.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15765420
> 
> 
> Nickdawg pay attention!!!!!



Then it must not be ex-Adelphia.


----------



## Inundated

Jim, I have those 10ish second clips, from World News Tonight, Wheel, Jeopardy, the 8 PM show (Wife Swap? I wasn't paying attention), 20/20, the 11 PM local news and Nightline. I didn't bother with whatever was on at 9, since it was also in SD like the 8 PM show.


Do you still want these? I'll figure out how to get 'em to you.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15765461
> 
> 
> That's the gist of it. Try getting approval on an STA in a week when hundreds are filed at once. It's not happening.



This, and not wanting to be a "digital only island" in the Cleveland market, is likely what caused WJW to backpedal.


When WNEO filed for its post-transition-facility STA, it took about three weeks, didn't it? And that was without a crush of applications in the very same week.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15764261
> 
> 
> Here's my next question. Do you have mystro Navigator guide or the SARA program guide?



We are navigator down here in New Phila. Since Last summer.


----------



## shooter21198

The Ex-Adelphia Areas of Erie have been Navigator since June of last year


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15765656
> 
> 
> We are navigator down here in New Phila. Since Last summer.



Were you adelphia comcast or were you always TW?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15765841
> 
> 
> The Ex-Adelphia Areas of Erie have been Navigator since June of last year



See nickdawg. Wrong again.


Shooter were you ever SARA?


----------



## Ford3612

Can anybody tell me if this makes any sense:


I upgraded from basic cable to digital cable with Time Warner last year when I got my new tv. So I have the Digital Value Service and the Digital Tier. My On Demand station had an error message all week so I called the service line and they had me unplug the box, didn't work. Then they tried something from their end, but it didn't work either so they had a guy come out to fix it today. He got that fixed with no problem, but then I told him that my ESPN HD channel doesn't always work, and that since the day that the tried to fix it while I was on the phone, my BBC America and Game Show Network weren't coming in at all now. Admitedly, no big loss on those two.


But then the cable guy tells me that I shouldn't be getting _any_ HD channels because I'm not subscribed to any of those packages. Yet I've had all the local channels plus TNT, TBS, A&E, FOOD, History, Discovery and even (for about six months) Universal HD.


So, was what he said true? Or is it just another TW scam? When I upgraded last year I told them over the phone that I wanted digital cable with the free HD stations that they offer.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ford3612* /forum/post/15766080
> 
> 
> Can anybody tell me if this makes any sense:
> 
> 
> I upgraded from basic cable to digital cable with Time Warner last year when I got my new tv. So I have the Digital Value Service and the Digital Tier. My On Demand station had an error message all week so I called the service line and they had me unplug the box, didn't work. Then they tried something from their end, but it didn't work either so they had a guy come out to fix it today. He got that fixed with no problem, but then I told him that my ESPN HD channel doesn't always work, and that since the day that the tried to fix it while I was on the phone, my BBC America and Game Show Network weren't coming in at all now. Admitedly, no big loss on those two.
> 
> 
> But then the cable guy tells me that I shouldn't be getting _any_ HD channels because I'm not subscribed to any of those packages. Yet I've had all the local channels plus TNT, TBS, A&E, FOOD, History, Discovery and even (for about six months) Universal HD.
> 
> 
> So, was what he said true? Or is it just another TW scam? When I upgraded last year I told them over the phone that I wanted digital cable with the free HD stations that they offer.




This is another example of techs shooting their mouths off and not knowing what they are talking about. Pathetic.


Time Warner gives free HD with it's digital package. If you have a box then you should be getting not only those channels but also ESPN, ESPN2. Now Universal HD you should not get, that's part of the premium digital package but for some reason I get that too.


After one year your price is going to skyrocket, be aware of that. This first year is cheap then they will charge you more but HD is free with digital. You should also receive BBC America, I'm not sure about Game Show Network but I think you should get that too.


If you continue to have problems, email [email protected] . That will solve any further issues, he's the President of TWNEO.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15765854
> 
> 
> Were you adelphia comcast or were you always TW?



We were Adelphia.


----------



## nickdawg

So you see, there is no problem switching SARA to Navigator. It's just TWC's stupidity.


I really hope they're not going to do a system wide switch to Navigator BEFORE adding HD channels. Or else that Asswipe from the OMW article will be hearing from me. It is f**king insulting that we have to wait for the ****tiest part of the system to be up to date before ANYONE can move forward. And this is not a original TWC vs. Adelphia turf war either. This is also Comcast, Adelphia and TWC people who are more advanced that part of the system.


Something tells me Mr. Jasso was the "last guy picked for dodgeball" and now he buys into that touchy feely "the team is only as strong as the weakest member" ****e. BULLCRAP!!!


If our "TWC team" is only as strong as the weakest members, then our cable system must be the equivalent of the Browns!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15766488
> 
> 
> We were Adelphia.



When you were adelphia did you have SARA or passport?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15766528
> 
> 
> So you see, there is no problem switching SARA to Navigator. It's just TWC's stupidity.
> 
> 
> I really hope they're not going to do a system wide switch to Navigator BEFORE adding HD channels. Or else that Asswipe from the OMW article will be hearing from me. It is f**king insulting that we have to wait for the ****tiest part of the system to be up to date before ANYONE can move forward. And this is not a original TWC vs. Adelphia turf war either. This is also Comcast, Adelphia and TWC people who are more advanced that part of the system.
> 
> 
> Something tells me Mr. Jasso was the "last guy picked for dodgeball" and now he buys into that touchy feely "the team is only as strong as the weakest member" ****e. BULLCRAP!!!
> 
> 
> If our "TWC team" is only as strong as the weakest members, then our cable system must be the equivalent of the Browns!!!


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15765511
> 
> 
> Jim, I have those 10ish second clips, from World News Tonight, Wheel, Jeopardy, the 8 PM show (Wife Swap? I wasn't paying attention), 20/20, the 11 PM local news and Nightline. I didn't bother with whatever was on at 9, since it was also in SD like the 8 PM show.
> 
> 
> Do you still want these? I'll figure out how to get 'em to you.



Yes. Well, what I really want is to know whether or not they play successfully on a PS3. And it seems the simplest way to find that out is for me to try them.


But I'm afraid I don't have any server space where you can post them. I know there are services out there that let you use temp space for that sort of thing, but I've never actually used one so I can't give you any pointers.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15767105
> 
> 
> Yes. Well, what I really want is to know whether or not they play successfully on a PS3. And it seems the simplest way to find that out is for me to try them.
> 
> 
> But I'm afraid I don't have any server space where you can post them. I know there are services out there that let you use temp space for that sort of thing, but I've never actually used one so I can't give you any pointers.



The final ZIP file is about 287 MB...


I'll figure out how, and let you know in the next couple of days!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15767105
> 
> 
> Yes. Well, what I really want is to know whether or not they play successfully on a PS3. And it seems the simplest way to find that out is for me to try them.
> 
> 
> But I'm afraid I don't have any server space where you can post them. I know there are services out there that let you use temp space for that sort of thing, but I've never actually used one so I can't give you any pointers.



I don't know if it would help at all, but I'd be happy to test the same recordings on my PS3 for comparison, though I'd bet the results would be the same.







Again, same problem, how would you get me your recordings (or snippets there of)?


Does your MyHD card direct feed to your PS3? Have you tried transcoding the problem recordings through PS3MS and/or Tversity?


Anyway, just lemme know if I can help.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15767637
> 
> 
> I don't know if it would help at all, but I'd be happy to test the same recordings on my PS3 for comparison, though I'd bet the results would be the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, same problem, how would you get me your recordings (or snippets there of)?



He could upload it to a bit torrent site and you could download it that way.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15767637
> 
> 
> I don't know if it would help at all, but I'd be happy to test the same recordings on my PS3 for comparison, though I'd bet the results would be the same.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, same problem, how would you get me your recordings (or snippets there of)?
> 
> 
> Does your MyHD card direct feed to your PS3? Have you tried transcoding the problem recordings through PS3MS and/or Tversity?
> 
> 
> Anyway, just lemme know if I can help.



Inundated sent me a link via PM, but I can't see any harm in letting others try it. Here's his link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/yq1a3s 


I haven't tested his clips yet myself. In fact, the download just finished.


The MyHD card shows live TV, captures live TV, and plays back captured TV, all on my computer. No, it doesn't directly feed the PS3. PSM and/or TVersity feed the PS3.


I've never gotten transcoding to work well. The result always stutters or fails or has A/V sync problems. I've tried all of the various transcoding options in both of these apps, but they just don't seem to handle this kind of high bandwidth video. And that's with a Core2 Quad CPU and gigabit ethernet. It works fine with other video sources, but not with HD transport streams. At least not in my experience.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15766535
> 
> 
> When you were adelphia did you have SARA or passport?



We had passport before we had navigator. On adelphia we had motorola boxes. The summer of 07 twc came door to door and switched out the boxes for the sa boxes. It had to be coordinated with the switchover to passport. When they switched a neighborhood they had to come that day since the motorola boxes would not work on the digital channels. I know twc had employees from Canton switching boxes. There were many employees switching boxes. They did the whole area (New Phila, Dover, Dennison, Uhrichsville, etc) in about a month. Navigator came later as an upload. I can't remember exactly when.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15767916
> 
> 
> Inundated sent me a link via PM, but I can't see any harm in letting others try it. Here's his link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/yq1a3s
> 
> 
> I haven't tested his clips yet myself. In fact, the download just finished.
> 
> 
> The MyHD card shows live TV, captures live TV, and plays back captured TV, all on my computer. No, it doesn't directly feed the PS3. PSM and/or TVersity feed the PS3.
> 
> 
> I've never gotten transcoding to work well. The result always stutters or fails or has A/V sync problems. I've tried all of the various transcoding options in both of these apps, but they just don't seem to handle this kind of high bandwidth video. And that's with a Core2 Quad CPU and gigabit ethernet. It works fine with other video sources, but not with HD transport streams. At least not in my experience.



Yeah the PS3 is a nifty little box, but it has it's quirks. Like you I have no problem transcoding non-HD video, but anything HD and I get stuttering. Though I suspect my server computer and network are just not up to the task. If I put the HD video onto the PS3 hard drive the video is flawless, but then I lose audio (ex: PS3 can't play WMV audio if it's an HD video cuz WMV uses WMPro for HD content, which the PS3 can't play.







)


I assume your MyHD card via your home server plays live feeds direct to your TV? If so, why can't you play back recorded MyHD content direct to the TV? Or is all (live and recorded) MyHD content using the PS3 as a transport/interconnect?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15767982
> 
> 
> We had passport before we had navigator. On adelphia we had motorola boxes. The summer of 07 twc came door to door and switched out the boxes for the sa boxes. It had to be coordinated with the switchover to passport. When they switched a neighborhood they had to come that day since the motorola boxes would not work on the digital channels. I know twc had employees from Canton switching boxes. There were many employees switching boxes. They did the whole area (New Phila, Dover, Dennison, Uhrichsville, etc) in about a month. Navigator came later as an upload. I can't remember exactly when.



Thank you rick490!


I still have not seen one person who had SARA and got switched to Navigator. _I'm of the opinion that in order for all of us to receive SDV it is necessary that we be set up on Navigator as well, as bad as it sucks._


So far nickdawg, you've proved the SDV thing for me in your area however we still don't know if the SARA software can or will be used. If it was going to be used why wouldn't they have started testing in my area?


----------



## Jim Gilliland

OK, I've now tried all of the files that I captured last night (these were the ones where I captured the entire stream rather than just one program), and also all of Inundated's captures. The results were identical on all of them, with two exceptions. Basically, all of the files played their video content correctly, but had no audio content at all (at least as far as the PS3 was concerned). So that seems to be the general rule at this point.


That's the same result as most of my Friday captures. And it's the same result as Lost from this past week (which is frankly the only ABC show that I actually care about watching). However, it is a different result from the prior 3-4 Lost shows (from earlier weeks) where the PS3 gave an error (80028801) and refused to play the content at all. So that suggests to me that WEWS changed something in their stream about a week ago. (But see my later post for follow-up on this point.)


The two exceptions were:


1) Inundated's recording of Jeopardy from Friday, which wouldn't play at all. An anomaly, I think, as it didn't generate an error, just a blank screen. And my recording of the same show plays correctly (but silently).


2) my recording of Grey's Anatomy from yesterday, which plays perfectly including both video and audio.


More information drawn from this comparison: Both Inundated and I recorded Wife Swap on Friday. As you may recall, mine played both audio and video correctly. But Inundated's plays video only on the PS3. I can't even begin to explain this.


And another note: Inundated captured his video in MPG files rather than in TS files. So even with a different "envelope", the same problem(s) occur.


I'm going to try to find some time today to try some of the analytical tools and techniques that Nitewatchman brought up over the last couple of days.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15767983
> 
> 
> I assume your MyHD card via your home server plays live feeds direct to your TV? If so, why can't you play back recorded MyHD content direct to the TV? Or is all (live and recorded) MyHD content using the PS3 as a transport/interconnect?



I can do direct output to my TV from the computer. It works fine, and that's what I've always done prior to getting the PS3. But the PS3 is much more user friendly for all this stuff, and it works perfectly on all of my HD captures except from WEWS. It's just particularly convenient to have all of the playback function (for BluRay, for DVD, for TV captures, for audio playlists, for digital photo slide shows, etc) in the same box and UI. And it's especially so for other members of the family.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15768148
> 
> 
> OK, I've now tried all of the files that I captured last night (these were the ones where I captured the entire stream rather than just one program), and also all of Inundated's captures. The results were identical on all of them, with two exceptions. Basically, all of the files played their video content correctly, but had no audio content at all (at least as far as the PS3 was concerned). So that seems to be the general rule at this point.
> 
> 
> That's the same result as most of my Friday captures. And it's the same result as Lost from this past week (which is frankly the only ABC show that I actually care about watching). However, it is a different result from the prior 3-4 Lost shows (from earlier weeks) where the PS3 gave an error (80028801) and refused to play the content at all. So that suggests to me that WEWS changed something in their stream about a week ago.
> 
> 
> The two exceptions were:
> 
> 
> 1) Inundated's recording of Jeopardy from Friday, which wouldn't play at all. An anomaly, I think, as it didn't generate an error, just a blank screen. And my recording of the same show plays correctly (but silently).
> 
> 
> 2) my recording of Grey's Anatomy from yesterday, which plays perfectly including both video and audio.
> 
> 
> More information drawn from this comparison: Both Inundated and I recorded Wife Swap on Friday. As you may recall, mine played both audio and video correctly. But Inundated's plays video only on the PS3. I can't even begin to explain this.
> 
> 
> And another note: Inundated captured his video in MPG files rather than in TS files. So even with a different "envelope", the same problem(s) occur.
> 
> 
> I'm going to try to find some time today to try some of the analytical tools and techniques that Nitewatchman brought up over the last couple of days.



Time to punt Jim!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15768099
> 
> 
> So far nickdawg, you've proved the SDV thing for me in your area however we still don't know if the SARA software can or will be used. If it was going to be used why wouldn't they have started testing in my area?



Actually, I recall sometime back and even in numerous locations where both Passport and SARA have been perfectly capable of SDV. But in the case of TW, they want everyone to be uniform and are trying to switch everyone to Navigator anyway. But SARA and Passport both are capable of interacting with SDV services FWIW.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15768148
> 
> 
> Basically, all of the files played their video content correctly, but had no audio content at all (at least as far as the PS3 was concerned). So that seems to be the general rule at this point.
> 
> 
> That's the same result as most of my Friday captures. And it's the same result as Lost from this past week (which is frankly the only ABC show that I actually care about watching). However, it is a different result from the prior 3-4 Lost shows (from earlier weeks) where the PS3 gave an error (80028801) and refused to play the content at all. So that suggests to me that WEWS changed something in their stream about a week ago.



I've just discovered something that makes me question the conclusion above. I have a recording from WEWS from a year ago that I had forgotten about. A friend of mine was on Jeopardy and he asked me to record it for him. (Some of you may know him - Bill Needle, who used to do sports radio and TV here.)


Anyway, the recording was captured in two segments - at the time, I had my captures set up to split the captures at 2GB boundaries. So I tried them today on the PS3. The first segment played video with no audio. The second segment gave the 80028801 error. That's two segments of the exact same broadcast giving two different results!


So that tells me two things: 1) Whatever issue exists in the WEWS stream has been there for at least a year, and 2) the fact that I'm getting different failures from different shows (and even occasional successes) may not actually mean very much.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15768167
> 
> 
> Time to punt Jim!



Probably so. It's getting ridiculous.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15768165
> 
> 
> I can do direct output to my TV from the computer. It works fine, and that's what I've always done prior to getting the PS3. But the PS3 is much more user friendly for all this stuff, and it works perfectly on all of my HD captures except from WEWS. It's just particularly convenient to have all of the playback function (for BluRay, for DVD, for TV captures, for audio playlists, for digital photo slide shows, etc) in the same box and UI. And it's especially so for other members of the family.



So going direct to the TV the WEWS recordings play fine, correct?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15768247
> 
> 
> Probably so. It's getting ridiculous.



At this point, I think the only way you'd be able to solve this would be directly with a WEWS engineer, and even then, who knows?


My files were recorded with my Pinnacle USB HDTV stick. The Pinnacle software defaults to MPEG2 creation. I don't think it will record a transport stream directly, but considering your results with my files, I don't think that's going to matter at this point.


Another data point: I recorded these files OTA. I seem to recall you used a Time Warner QAM feed. It doesn't appear there's a difference.


I miss Bill Needle from his days doing weekends/fill-in on WKNR.


----------



## WKBN Chief

Hey guys,

We are testing a dual HD feed over the air feed today for WKBN and WYFX (27.1 & 27.2). Of course I'm fully aware of the hit in performance but I think it looks pretty good. I'd be interested in your opinions as to the tradeoff between the hit in performance and the ability to broadcast BOTH CBS and Fox in HD. No guarantees as to how long it will be up like this. I'm going to try and keep it at least through prime tonight depending on whether there are any problems reported to me. Right now CBS has college BB and Fox has Nascar. This is probably a fairly rigorous test for the stat muxing capabilities of my encoders. In other words, what you are seeing this afternoon will be quite representative of the worst case situation.


----------



## Nitewatchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15764963
> 
> 
> I have no idea whether or not WEWS can or would fix the problem. My most reasonable solutions are: 1) Buy a media player that can handle these streams. There are several that would work fine. 2) Wait for Sony to make improvements to the software so that the PS3 is more compatible with these streams. If nearly every other player on the market (both HW and SW) plays these without issue, then so should the PS3.



Sorry if I misunderstood some of your earlier post, but I thought it was the case it would work for proper decoding on the PS3 for the "problem caps" after you remux with TSmuxer or convert to *.MPG with VideoRedo ?


Concerning the conversion to *.mpg if that works, it's probably not because of the conversion to a MPG PS container, but because there is probably a demux then mux involved.


If so, that seems to me to perhaps be a useful option until(and if) the issue is resolved ...



> Quote:
> I'm going to try to find some time today to try some of the analytical tools and techniques that Nitewatchman brought up over the last couple of days.



If the "remuxing" works, given your results with Inundated's Caps, I'm guessing that sort of digging probably won't lead to a better solution to the issue, and thus may not be worth the time and effort.


But, I suppose it is possible it may(but then again it probably won't) give you a better idea of what may be going on, and regarding what the best option might be to correct the issue(which, might turn out to be "wait and see if it gets fixed"), or to possibly give you more info to tell them if you decide to contact WEWS or Sony about the issue.


If you do continue digging, You've probably already thought of this, but just in case you haven't, you might want to trim the problem caps down to working with short segments due reduce processing(disk read/writes especially) time.


I don't have a link handy currently, but tssplitter.exe (freeware) will let you split TS's into any sort of sizes you want w/o "changing" anything in the TS ...


Given the issue seems to be with the audio stream, only other thing I can think of at this point I haven't already mentioned is that you might want to demux the elementary Video/Audio streams(you could use Video Redo to demux to the Es's, or a TS demuxer like Xport) and run the AC3 audio file through something that will analyze it, to see if there might be something odd going on you can spot ...


Only thing I've ever used like that for AC3 audio streams is Ac3fix or Besliced, and I haven't used anything other than ac3fixgui to check for/fix invalid frame length for a long time, so I don't remember, but I think for the most part all those will probably do is report and fix invalid frame length. Most other errors with AC3 streams(such as involving corrupted frames, audio timestamp gaps/etc) should be reported in MPEG2repair.


Well ... actually I lied ... If the "remuxing" *doesn't* work, and the issue is specific to the Audio stream, along the lines of the "transcoding" options you've talked about .... there is another thing I can think of at this point you could try --- it's starting to get a bit complicated though ... You could demux the elementary Video/audio streams, then *reencode* the audio stream (such as with Besweet), then Mux the video/audio streams, into say MPG file container ..... That should go pretty fast(you could use ffmepg or mplex to remux if you don't have anything else) ... Or, for a much "slower" option, this is getting even more complicated and I won't go into the "details" involved, and I don't know why you'd want to do this unless you wanted to resize/ and reencode to DVD video, or to keep it HD and reencode with AVC/AAC or VC-1 to improve efficiency to archive the material to say DVD+R, but you could also reencode both the video and audio ....


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/15769849
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> We are testing a dual HD feed over the air feed today for WKBN and WYFX (27.1 & 27.2). Of course I'm fully aware of the hit in performance but I think it looks pretty good. I'd be interested in your opinions as to the tradeoff between the hit in performance and the ability to broadcast BOTH CBS and Fox in HD. No guarantees as to how long it will be up like this. I'm going to try and keep it at least through prime tonight depending on whether there are any problems reported to me. Right now CBS has college BB and Fox has Nascar. This is probably a fairly rigorous test for the stat muxing capabilities of my encoders. In other words, what you are seeing this afternoon will be quite representative of the worst case situation.



A bit off topic, but shouldn't have said this around nickdawg. Boy's gonna have a coronary.


----------



## Jim Gilliland

Thanks, Nitewatchman Jeff. I didn't mean to imply that the two options that I enumerated earlier were my only choices. Just that they were the most practical options at this point. The only other thing that might still be useful would be to find a way to determine exactly what "flaw" is causing the difficulty.


But, as you point out, there are plenty of ways for me to watch this content, so it's certainly not critical for me to solve this. There are LOTS of ways to recode and/or repackage the streams so that they play correctly on the PS3, and there are LOTS of ways to play them in their existing form using other players, both hardware and software. So basically, I think I've probably taken up enough of everyone's time with it.


I do know how to create short clips from the problem videos, so if I needed to submit an example to Sony, I could. But I really don't know how I'd go about reaching the right Sony people. I don't have much faith that their CSRs will be able to help much. It would be easier to reach the right people at WEWS, but I'm not sure that they have much incentive to worry about fixing this.


I agree with you that analyzing the audio stream would seem the most promising approach. Especially since the same failure occurs in both MPG and TP files. I have some of the tools that you mention, but not all of them. I know that some can be freely downloaded. But if you had the chance to run some of your tools against the files that Inundated posted, maybe you could spot something that I've overlooked.


Or alternatively, you could look over this four-second clip from my system: http://home.roadrunner.com/~gilliland/WEWS.tp


----------



## Nitewatchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/15769849
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> We are testing a dual HD feed over the air feed today for WKBN and WYFX (27.1 & 27.2).



Wish I could check it out, but unfortunetly, even with some "tropo", I'd need WHIO-DT to go off air for that










I may have sent you a DX reception report at one time, don't remember, but attached is a screenshot I took here several years ago of WKBN 27 analog - specifically, this is from 9/21/04, I think probably 2AM TOH ID (WKBN is 223 Miles from me, true azimuth bearing 62 degrees ....)


Sorry for the Mess (IMD+WBDT being N -1 etc), this was before I added some traps to knock down some of the dayton signals a bit ...


Mostly due to co-channel issues with locals (such as Cincy), I WEWS-DT 15 is the only Cleveland DT I've logged so far, BTW .... And that one is quite rare, with WPTD 16 being right next door ....


I've logged several other DT's over/up that way though, such as WDLI-DT, WFMJ-DT and KDKA-DT ...


----------



## Nitewatchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15770799
> 
> 
> I know that some can be freely downloaded. But if you had the chance to run some of your tools against the files that Inundated posted, maybe you could spot something that I've overlooked.
> 
> 
> Or alternatively, you could look over this four-second clip from my system: http://home.roadrunner.com/~gilliland/WEWS.tp



Yes, I'd be glad to take a look at it. Downloading your file currently ... I'll let you know if I find anything (or not, and don't know, but I'm guessing it's probably going to be "not") ...


I'm on dial-up connection though, D/L your file will take about 30 minutes, so I can't do the 287MB file, or anything much longer than a few seconds from a ATSC TS(or tp) cap ...


I'm in rural area, no cable, the limited broadband options available are VERY expenisive currently and just not worth to me, as most of what I do on internet is text based, or involves downloads of less than 20MB or so, larger stuff I can do over night .... In other words, currently the way I look at it is, if it ain't less than $20 bucks a month or so (including after the 6 months of "introductory offers"), I'm not Interested/I'm not doing it ....


In any case, receiving/decoding WEWS via enhanced signal propagation is pretty rare here(receiving WQHS 61 or WJW 8 analogs is not all that rare however - In fact it's unusual they're not popping in and out "above the snow") , As I mentioned to WKBN chief in last post .... But, it *has* happened, so If I happen to looking in that direction at the right time and pull them in, and you're issue is still occuring I'll get a cap from them here .... If that happens though, it might be years from now, as I think I've only decoded them a couple of times since I first saw them in Late 2002 ...


----------



## Nitewatchman

Sorry Folks for the multiple posts ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* 
Or alternatively, you could look over this four-second clip from my system: http://home.roadrunner.com/~gilliland/WEWS.tp
Ok, I ran it through everything I could think of(including demuxing and checking audio files, and everything I suggested in earlier posts), and I could find no problems with it whatsoever. Doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any which I can't detect or "missed" putting 2+2 together about with the tools I'm using, or given the "shortness" of the clip, but I do think it says a lot that "common tools" don't seem to find any errors, and that this decodes just fine with other HW/SW, but presumably isn't (even for this 4 second clip for the audio) with the PS3 ...


Only oddity I notice was that WEWS has the bitrate info set wrong in a descriptor in PMT(~38Mb/s, which would be about the total bandwidth available in a entire 6MHZ channel with QAM, and of course it can't be much more than 18Mb/s for the video stream from a "ATSC station") , but that is very common and should not be a problem -- Most stations down here don't have this set right either, even for "OTA", I've seen it as high as 80 Mb/s ...


It also plays just fine (audio+video) in any media player I tried ... Most I have set up to use Cyberlink Decoders (audio+video), but it played fine with VLC and MPC's internal MPEG2 video/AC3 audio decoders as well.


Attached Zip file includes :


Tsreader HTML export info (Note: the TS file filter I used to open the file was "MyHD .TP Files(*.tp) ....


MPEG2repair logfile


I didn't see any point in including any other log files(such as from demuxers), as they indicate no errors or other useful information ...


------------


Best "guess" -- PS3 may have some issues/incompatibilities with demux of some ATSC compliant MPEG2-TS(since you said the same thing happend) and/or MyHD TP files ...


Is it because WEWS is doing something "wrong" ? could be I suppose, but I doubt it, and I don't know, but my best guess there is still that there just may be some weird "incompatibility" with what they're doing (or the way certian equipment on their end does things - Particularly perhaps regarding the Multiplexing or perhaps the AC3 audio encoding - latter seems unlikely to me though since if you remux it, with say TSmuxer, the audio encoding actually still stays the same) with the PS3 ... I'm sure however they might want to know about it ....


Let us know if you find out anything more !

 

wews.zip 1.6064453125k . file


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of WEWS, their bug is crazy.


Remember my post about the lotto numbers not on analog? Sounds like technical problems is a realistic answer, after what I saw tonight.


I was watching "Desperate Housewives" and the local bug that came on screen after commercial breaks was strange at about 9:45. It was horizontally scrolling across the screen until it disappeared. Then, next commercial break, it was fine.




With the DTV date moving, I don't think the question is when they will sign off, but will they make it to that date? If their equipment keeps f'ing up, will they repair it? Should they, since analog is going away soon?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nitewatchman* /forum/post/15772734
> 
> 
> Ok, I ran it through everything I could think of(including demuxing and checking audio files, and everything I suggested in earlier posts), and I could find no problems with it whatsoever.
> 
> 
> Only oddity I notice was that WEWS has the bitrate info set wrong in a descriptor in PMT(~38Mb/s, which would be about the total bandwidth available in a entire 6MHZ channel with QAM, and of course it can't be much more than 18Mb/s for the video stream from a "ATSC station") , but that is very common and should not be a problem -- Most stations down here don't have this set right either, even for "OTA", I've seen it as high as 80 Mb/s ...



Thanks for doing that for me. I really appreciate the confirmation. Keep in mind that the clip I posted DID come from a QAM cable broadcast, so the data rate may be correct for the stream as a whole. But if the PMT reflects just the WEWS stream, then that would certainly not be correct.


Let me know if there's an easy way to correct that info without changing the other aspects of the stream. Might be a worthwhile test if there's a simple way to accomplish it.


Bottom line, though - it looks like I either have to wait for Sony to continue to improve the PS3 firmware or choose a different way to watch these captures.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15773302
> 
> 
> Speaking of WEWS, their bug is crazy.
> 
> 
> Remember my post about the lotto numbers not on analog? Sounds like technical problems is a realistic answer, after what I saw tonight.
> 
> 
> I was watching "Desperate Housewives" and the local bug that came on screen after commercial breaks was strange at about 9:45. It was horizontally scrolling across the screen until it disappeared. Then, next commercial break, it was fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the DTV date moving, I don't think the question is when they will sign off, but will they make it to that date? If their equipment keeps f'ing up, will they repair it? Should they, since analog is going away soon?



sounds like someone forgot to system sync something

not a biggie,just relax...


----------



## Nitewatchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for doing that for me.



No problem, and your welcome -- Although, I don't think I probably helped much, and probably just told you a lot of stuff you already knew, or maybe didn't want/need to know







...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15773816
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the clip I posted DID come from a QAM cable broadcast, so the data rate may be correct for the stream as a whole. But if the PMT reflects just the WEWS stream, then that would certainly not be correct.
> 
> 
> Let me know if there's an easy way to correct that info without changing the other aspects of the stream. Might be a worthwhile test if there's a simple way to accomplish it.



Well, that bitrate descriptor describes the max bitrate and is specific to the bitrate of only the elementary video stream which is relevant to that PMT(program map table) specific to that program(audio and video). For example, the bitrate info for the elementary AC3 audio stream in that PMT is set correctly, at 384Kb/s. Another program stream, or "subchannel" within the Transport stream would have a different PMT, and within the different PMT, different video/audio streams ...


Usually, what the cableco gets is the same Video and audio streams from the station (such as from WEWS) as OTA viewers get, from the same encoder at the station, and the cableco will Mux entire Transport streams from two HD stations into one channel and one single Transport stream. As the Max bitrate via OTA/ATSC (for everything, including PSIP) is 19.4mb/s, and the max bitrate via QAM256 is twice that. Among other things, PID's are usually renumbered from what is sent by the station OTA( and sorry, earlier I talked about the PID's being different from WEWS from the MPEG2 info you posted in an earlier post - presumably from a TS rather than a MyHD *.tp -- that's likely because of the PID's renumbered by the cableco) at the Cableco, and they also in some cases may strip out some of the streams(such as some or all of the PSIP, and in some cases insert different PSIP data, if any)/info the station sends them, as well as change some other info like some of the descriptors and info involved ...


And, I also said something else wrong(as I keep forgetting about the changes that occur or can occur for cable vs OTA), as the info in the MPEG2 video descriptor for WEWS's HD video stream in the PMT from your cap apparently doesn't match the same descriptor for WEWS Video stream sent OTA -- As The TSreader HTML export on Trip's site shows this for it :


MPEG Video: Bitrate 15.460 Mbps Resolution 1280 x 720p


Follows is link to that -- You can compare this to the info to the TSreader export info I attached to last message for your *tp file -- Note among other things, all the PSIP info(some of which isn't shown in the TSreader HTML export file - TVCT info is the only PSIP info shown from this cap) has been stripped for your TP file, as well as for instance the null packet stream for OTA - So that all you have is just what you "need" for the Video/Audio - again, if you had a "full TS" from the station, that's the same thing MPEG2repair does, but also with error checking :

http://www.rabbitears.info/screencap.../59441-0_0.htm 


Unless something has changed since that cap, (probalby not) That(15.460 Mbps) is likely accurate for the Max bitrate they send for the HD video stream from them, for OTA and Including for what you're getting via QAM via cable.


In which case it's likely the cableco(some piece of equipment) has "inserted" that incorrect max bitrate info of 38.010Mb/s for their video stream ...


I don't know, but again, that shouldn't be a problem, and It's likely the case for other stations in your area as well. Only thing I've ever seen the info from that descriptor actually used for is by certian software to set a maximum mux rate, so that buffer underruns don't occur during a Mux. For example, in VideoRedo, it will "default" to using whatever that says, but in this case, if you are converting to another file format, you can manually change it to say, 15.5 or 16 MB/s .... Or, you could change it to 80Mb/s, and it will still work fine ... But, if you changed it to say 5Mb/s, Buffer Underruns are likely to occur ... In other words, as long as the bitrate "number" in that descriptor is the same, or higher than the actual maxbitrate of the Video stream, It should not be a problem for anything making "use" of the descriptor info ....


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nitewatchman* /forum/post/15774464
> 
> 
> I don't know, but again, that shouldn't be a problem, and It's likely the case for other stations in your area as well.



It shouldn't be a problem, but if Sony PS3 looks at it and concludes "I can't support that data rate", then it might decide to put up the message "This content cannot be played."


Probably not, I agree, especially if this error is common. But it just seemed like an area in which someone could have made an error in the PS3 firmware.


But if the incorrect data was inserted by Time Warner, then it's definitely NOT the problem because the PS3 won't play recordings captured OTA either.


Anyway, thanks, it's quite an education. It sounds like there are a few additional tools that I should have in my arsenal, and I'm going to track down a few of them.


----------



## JJkizak

Jim Gilliland:

These are a list of the capture audio codecs on the MY HD card menu in my system:

1.....WMA VOICE ENCODER DMO

2.....WM SPEECH ENCODER DMO

3.....WM AUDIO ENCODER DMO

4.....NERO AUDIO ENCODER

5.....IMA ADPCM

6.....PCM

7.....MICROSOFT ADPCM

8.....ACELP.NET

9.....DSP GROUP TRUE SPEECH (TM)

10....WINDOWS MEDIA AUDIO V1

11....WINDOWS MEDIA AUDIO V2

12....GSM 6.10

13....MICROSOFT G.723.1

14....CCITT A-LAW

15....CCITT U-LAW

16....MPEG LAYER 3


Also unchecked is record without sound. This will probably add to your confusion.

JJK


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15776060
> 
> 
> Jim Gilliland:
> 
> These are a list of the capture audio codecs on the MY HD card menu in my system..... Also unchecked is record without sound. This will probably add to your confusion.



Thanks, though I'm not entirely sure how that information will help me. Or are you responding to something that I've forgotten that I asked?


----------



## Nitewatchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15775313
> 
> 
> But if Sony PS3 looks at it and concludes "I can't support that data rate", then it might decide to put up the message "This content cannot be played."



Regardless of what that descriptor says, it's also the case MPEG2 video can be encoded with much higher max bitrate than that. There should be no reason why it wouldn't support higher bitrates, and I also just don't think it would be using that information in that way.


Here's an example (the bolded portion of the VideoRedoLog for a Demux to elementary video/audio streams of your sameple file) of how that bitrate descriptor info can be used :

*2009-02-08 20:22:00 Bumping mux rate to: 40.000 Mbps to accomodate video bit rate of: 38.810*

2009-02-08 20:22:00 Starting new Frame Accurate Output Segment: start:0.022 (00:00:00.00), end:4454.467 (00:00:04.27)

2009-02-08 20:22:04 Output complete. Input file: D:\\wews\\WEWS.tp

Output file: D:\\wews\\WEWSVRD.mpv

Mode: Frame Accurate

Video output frames: 223

Audio output frames: 117

Processing time (secs): 0

Processed frames/sec: 646.38

Actual Video Bitrate: 15.54 Mbps


----------------------


Anyway, I did some "googling" for "Error+80028801" and similar, and read through some of the reports from those getting that error -- While I didn't spend much time on it, and couldn't make much sense out of it, it appears folks are getting the issue regarding issues with playback involving various codecs, in some cases which didn't even involve MPEG2 TS, MPEG2 video or AC3 audio streams ...


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/15769849
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> We are testing a dual HD feed over the air feed today for WKBN and WYFX (27.1 & 27.2). Of course I'm fully aware of the hit in performance but I think it looks pretty good. I'd be interested in your opinions as to the tradeoff between the hit in performance and the ability to broadcast BOTH CBS and Fox in HD. No guarantees as to how long it will be up like this. I'm going to try and keep it at least through prime tonight depending on whether there are any problems reported to me. Right now CBS has college BB and Fox has Nascar. This is probably a fairly rigorous test for the stat muxing capabilities of my encoders. In other words, what you are seeing this afternoon will be quite representative of the worst case situation.



Sorry I did not see this post until Monday, however I was watching WKBN-DT Sunday evening during 60 Minutes and the Grammys. If your test was still up, I can tell you that I saw no noticable problems other than the usual drop-outs I get from my location at the far edge of your service contour (i.e. Parma, about a mile south of the Cleveland towers). I'm using a Silver Sensor indoors and not near a window (which goes against what I preach here but my outdoor antenna got blown off course and I'm not about to go on the roof, I'm lucky to still get your signal that way, but fortunately I do still get virtually a 24/7 signal with the indoor antenna).


Do I have to do a rescan to get WYFX in HD?


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nitewatchman* /forum/post/15777035
> 
> 
> Regardless of what that descriptor says, it's also the case MPEG2 video can be encoded with much higher max bitrate than that. There should be no reason why it wouldn't support higher bitrates, and I also just don't think it would be using that information in that way.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I did some "googling" for "Error+80028801" and similar, and read through some of the reports from those getting that error -- While I didn't spend much time on it, and couldn't make much sense out of it, it appears folks are getting the issue regarding issues with playback involving various codecs, in some cases which didn't even involve MPEG2 TS, MPEG2 video or AC3 audio streams ...



You're probably right, thanks. And regarding the 80028801 error, yes, this code is the generic error that the PS3 puts up for any kind of content that it can't handle. So a Google search will definitely turn up countless examples that are largely unrelated to the specifics of my situation.


----------



## Vchat20

Just a little brow-raising bit I found out earlier here.


#1: I, too, see active SDV channels in this area just the same as nickdawg. Though I only have access to STOHD here, it has been switched to SDV. Primarily on the fact that it now tunes to the 585mhz QAM whereas before the channel used to sit up in the 600mhz range. Not including the fact it does list it as an SDV channel in diagnostics in comparison to a 'NON SDV' identification for everything else.


#2: Looking through the hardware diag on the HDC box here, I see a service application that reads 'SARA_TO_ODN_1_0_4'. My memory is fuzzy with the tons of posts in this thread on what the status of moving SARA people to Navigator has been, but there's at least one indication they are working on it and the SARA people have been another one of the big roadblocks for this SDV switch (aside from Comcast/Adelphia transitioning, Motorola equipment, and old Passport boxes which have already been switched over AFAIK).


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15777362
> 
> 
> Do I have to do a rescan to get WYFX in HD?



No, you shouldn't need to as WYFX has already been on 27.2. Just the video resolution of it and WKBN/27.1 have been changed. Most tv's should handle this without a problem or need of a rescan.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15780022
> 
> 
> Just a little brow-raising bit I found out earlier here.
> 
> 
> #1: I, too, see active SDV channels in this area just the same as nickdawg. Though I only have access to STOHD here, it has been switched to SDV. Primarily on the fact that it now tunes to the 585mhz QAM whereas before the channel used to sit up in the 600mhz range. Not including the fact it does list it as an SDV channel in diagnostics in comparison to a 'NON SDV' identification for everything else.
> 
> 
> #2: Looking through the hardware diag on the HDC box here, I see a service application that reads 'SARA_TO_ODN_1_0_4'. My memory is fuzzy with the tons of posts in this thread on what the status of moving SARA people to Navigator has been, but there's at least one indication they are working on it and the SARA people have been another one of the big roadblocks for this SDV switch (aside from Comcast/Adelphia transitioning, Motorola equipment, and old Passport boxes which have already been switched over AFAIK).



Are you saying you previously had SARA? If you did, that's a huge, huge thing. You would be the first person I've seen anywhere who had SARA changed to Navigator.


I agree, I think the big stumbling box is SARA but that application is very interesting.


----------



## Vchat20

No. This is the same 'ol 8300HDC which came stock with Navigator. As far as I know, these boxes are designed with Navigator in mind. Now why this particular application is listed I have no clue aside from possibly they just push these service apps to all boxes and they determine whether the app needs to be run or not. But it's there and obviously TWC is pushing it to other systems.


Beyond the fact that I see this application name in there and the name insinuates the obvious, I have no idea what TW has up their sleeves as of this point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15780332
> 
> 
> No. This is the same 'ol 8300HDC which came stock with Navigator. As far as I know, these boxes are designed with Navigator in mind. Now why this particular application is listed I have no clue aside from possibly they just push these service apps to all boxes and they determine whether the app needs to be run or not. But it's there and obviously TWC is pushing it to other systems.
> 
> 
> Beyond the fact that I see this application name in there and the name insinuates the obvious, I have no idea what TW has up their sleeves as of this point.



My next question to you then are you TW legacy, or ex Adelphia? Important due to the fact that the only areas of ex Adelphia to experience a change all had Passport previously.


Adelphia's old area consisted of several old cable companies, and Adelphia never bothered to put them on the same system. Hence TW's headache. That and the decision to also merge the Comcast areas in the purchase. I'm sure you're aware that the purchase was made with Comcast and Comcast likewise got TW areas.


----------



## Vchat20

Legacy area here. Been TW for as long as I care to remember. Probably mid-90s thereabouts which before then was TCI Cable.


On a real interesting but unrelated note: Shortly after TW bought TCI Cable in our area, they were real quick about putting in digital services even though they were limited to telco-return only. Up in the boonies of northern trumbull county known as Bristolville, we had ourselves a Motorola DCT-1200 around '98-99-00 which had a phone line hooked up all the time (though my mind is fuzzy, I swear they used some form of out-of-band signalling as I never remembered it interfering with the phone service and the box would outright shut off if you unplugged the phone line from the wall.), and we had certain digital services like non-scrambled pin-based PPV, digital music courtesy of what used to be DMX, and of course a decent selection of digital cable programming in addition to the analog lineup.


Back on the subject though, it's interesting because I have not been aware of any SARA equipment here in the legacy area. Before Navigator came into the picture, it's all been Passport equipment as far as I know. For as many people I know around here with digital services, I haven't come across a SARA box yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15780567
> 
> 
> Legacy area here. Been TW for as long as I care to remember. Probably mid-90s thereabouts which before then was TCI Cable.
> 
> 
> On a real interesting but unrelated note: Shortly after TW bought TCI Cable in our area, they were real quick about putting in digital services even though they were limited to telco-return only. Up in the boonies of northern trumbull county known as Bristolville, we had ourselves a Motorola DCT-1200 around '98-99-00 which had a phone line hooked up all the time (though my mind is fuzzy, I swear they used some form of out-of-band signalling as I never remembered it interfering with the phone service and the box would outright shut off if you unplugged the phone line from the wall.), and we had certain digital services like non-scrambled pin-based PPV, digital music courtesy of what used to be DMX, and of course a decent selection of digital cable programming in addition to the analog lineup.
> 
> 
> Back on the subject though, it's interesting because I have not been aware of any SARA equipment here in the legacy area. Before Navigator came into the picture, it's all been Passport equipment as far as I know. For as many people I know around here with digital services, I haven't come across a SARA box yet.



Yeah that's what I thought. Now how that statement got in that box I don't know but I guarantee it wasn't a SARA box when you got it. I think that there is a possibility that the box may have been previously owned and perhaps turned in for replacement, and that's a good possibility because that particular box is a well known piece of garbage. Perhaps SA puts that statement in ex SARA boxes and ships them out with Navigator. I don't know.


If you say you got it brand spanking new in a box, then there would be no reason for that statement to be in there. Still, it's very curious.


----------



## Vchat20

Nope. This box we got brand new factory sealed. In fact they seem to be handing out new boxes more than 'returns' in this area. All of which are these 8300HDC's.


Like I said, it's probably a case of they are pushing these from the headend just like the rest of the software. In which case, considering the legacy area has been de-void of SARA equipment (someone correct me if I'm wrong. nickdawg? anyone?), logic would dictate this software is being pushed region-wide (legacy, adelphia, comcast, akron/canton, cleveland, youngstown/warren, etc.) which is just more ponderous.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I got home last night and found WYFX still in HD. Everything looks great here on both channels. I watched the tail end of the Obama news conference and parts of 24.


Keep in mind I'm watching downrezzed to SD so YMMV. However WYFX did not look like the typical subchannel. It looked as good as WKBN-DT on my set.


BTW skip was up last night, however insted of getting the other 2 Youngstown stations I got WFXP from Erie insted! This was with a Silver Sensor aimed East through the house.


----------



## ajstan99

Saw this and couldn't help thinking that this is what nickdawg would sound like without all the asterisks.







Or maybe this is similar to what Hook's review of the SA8300 would be.










(Language warning - not for kids/work.) http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of 


Enjoy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15789044
> 
> 
> Saw this and couldn't help thinking that this is what nickdawg would sound like without all the asterisks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe this is similar to what Hook's review of the SA8300 would be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Language warning - not for kids/work.) http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of
> 
> 
> Enjoy.



ROFLMAO. I should mention here that TiVo also links right up to The Onion in the find programs menu.


Sony tried to compete once a long time ago but they bailed. This is really their second pos.










Truthfully it's good to see other companies manufacturing DVR's and giving people more choices then that pos SA 8300 HDC.


----------



## berenga

Actually the Sony HD DVR that has been discontinued is definitely not a pos but a very fine HD dvr with a 500 gig internal drive, free program guide, and no subscription fees. And it came out in January 2005, more than 18 months before the TIVO S3 debuted in September 2006. Unfortunately, for owners of the Sony like myself, Sony made the bad decision to no longer support it in the US. But it's really a great piece of equipment and still going strong outside the US. I also agree that it's great that other manufacturers have HD dvrs in the works for the future to be an alternative to the cable companies dvrs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/15790337
> 
> 
> Actually the Sony HD DVR that has been discontinued is definitely not a pos but a very fine HD dvr with a 500 gig internal drive, free program guide, and no subscription fees. And it came out in January 2005, more than 18 months before the TIVO S3 debuted in September 2006. Unfortunately, for owners of the Sony like myself, Sony made the bad decision to no longer support it in the US. But it's really a great piece of equipment and still going strong outside the US. I also agree that it's great that other manufacturers have HD dvrs in the works for the future to be an alternative to the cable companies dvrs.



.


I wqs joking about the first DVR. I heard good things about the first one. But technically speaking it still can't hold a candle to the DVR that TiVo produces today, however it was ahead of it's time - and a good deal.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/15790337
> 
> 
> I also agree that it's great that other manufacturers have HD dvrs in the works for the future to be an alternative to the cable companies dvrs.



...Until that DVR is terribly outdated or the hard drive fails. And upgrade/repair is all on you.


At that time I'll be happily returning to TWC to get my **free** replacement.


Ad laughing at Hookbill as he chains the Tivo to the bumper and returns it to best by, hoping that warranty is still good!


----------



## Tim Lones

I'll br \\e looking out for those other HD Dvrs..Anything to save 8 bucks a month..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15791623
> 
> 
> I'll br \\e looking out for those other HD Dvrs..Anything to save 8 bucks a month..



You won't find a cheaper DVR then TW. Cheap on the wallet and cheap performance.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15791394
> 
> 
> ...Until that DVR is terribly outdated or the hard drive fails. And upgrade/repair is all on you.
> 
> 
> At that time I'll be happily returning to TWC to get my **free** replacement.
> 
> 
> Ad laughing at Hookbill as he chains the Tivo to the bumper and returns it to best by, hoping that warranty is still good!



You can always buy a new hard drive if that happens.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/15791623
> 
> 
> I'll br \\e looking out for those other HD Dvrs..Anything to save 8 bucks a month..



The Sony DVR would be a nice option, especially if there was not a monthly service fee.


Tivo, on the other hand, not so nice. Expensive unit, plus monthly fees for its service.


Yes, you can get a new hard drive. But your shows are still lost. Plus, with TWC, the basic features across the 8000HD, 8300HD, 8300HDC, plus 8000 and 8300 SDTV models are the same.


With Tivo, they admitted straight up that their new features only work with the newer generation of HD boxes. And I'm sure the S3/HD units will be in the same boat as the S2 units soon. Just wait, the S4 will come out one day, with new features not available on the S3.


The SA boxes are really not that bad. They're really not. That's the one thing that keeps me away from other providers, fear of other generic equipment. If ATT Uverse used SA boxes with SARA, I would have switched yesterday. But instead, other providers seem to do their own thing. Dish's DVR, D* has its own kind of software, ATT, etc. I guess that's why TWC is doing it too---to compete.


I hate in-house developed software. Sitck to Passport or SARA.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15791730
> 
> 
> You can always buy a new hard drive if that happens.



Notice the word *BUY* a new hard drive.


Not my favorite word.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15789044
> 
> 
> Saw this and couldn't help thinking that this is what nickdawg would sound like without all the asterisks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe this is similar to what Hook's review of the SA8300 would be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Language warning - not for kids/work.) http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of
> 
> 
> Enjoy.



HA! Good one. LOL


I dl it and will stream it to my PS3 for others to enjoy (assuming the PS3 will play it).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15792219
> 
> 
> Notice the word *BUY* a new hard drive.
> 
> 
> Not my favorite word.



Well let me tell you how you buy YOUR DVR (rent). You pay 7.00 a month for service and 8.00 a month for the box I'm rounding off here. 15.00. 15.00 x 12 = 600.00 a year. Take that over a 3 year period and you've spent $1800.00.


And you still don't own it, all you have is a basic DVR that doesn't even have wifi capabilities. I have a 3 year service contract on my DVR so if the hard drive does go I get a new one, just like you and that cost me a whole 49.00 extra.


So your "inexpensive" DVR isn't as cheap as you think. In the long run my DVR is less expensive then yours. Don't even tell me about paying 800.00 for one, you can pick them up now for around 500.00. Add a 3 years of service, 200.00 or you can go lifetime for 300.00. Cable cards are 6.00 a pair per month.


You do the math.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15793042
> 
> 
> Well let me tell you how you buy YOUR DVR (rent). You pay 7.00 a month for service and 8.00 a month for the box I'm rounding off here. 15.00. 15.00 x 12 = 600.00 a year. Take that over a 3 year period and you've spent $1800.00.
> 
> 
> And you still don't own it, all you have is a basic DVR that doesn't even have wifi capabilities. I have a 3 year service contract on my DVR so if the hard drive does go I get a new one, just like you and that cost me a whole 49.00 extra.
> 
> 
> So your "inexpensive" DVR isn't as cheap as you think. In the long run my DVR is less expensive then yours. Don't even tell me about paying 800.00 for one, you can pick them up now for around 500.00. Add a 3 years of service, 200.00 or you can go lifetime for 300.00. Cable cards are 6.00 a pair per month.
> 
> 
> You do the math.



I think I'd do the math a bit differently. I'd remove $7 per month service as I'm sure Tivo charges a monthly service (dunno what it is, but I'd guess it's more than $7), so let's call the service a wash.


Then the $8 per month for the DVR compared to your $6 per month for two cables cards leaves a difference of $2 per month, $24 per year, $72 for three years. And I think this $24 per year is where nickdawg is saying he'd rather pay the $24 as his assurance that the box will be fixed or replaced should something go wrong, and that he could "upgrade" to the newer technology boxes should one come along (if ever).










I know Tivo is a much better platform and is well worth the $$$ to many, but I can see where nickdawg likes the rental program too.


----------



## toby10

By complete accident I heard a quick news story over FM radio in my car today (I *despise* most FM broadcasts, particularly here locally, hardly EVER listen to such crap).....










....anyway.....the story was that 40% of US TV broadcasters are going ahead with the Feb 17th transition date, according to FCC filings.









A much higher number than I expected, but good news nonetheless.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15793925
> 
> 
> I think I'd do the math a bit differently. I'd remove $7 per month service as I'm sure Tivo charges a monthly service (dunno what it is, but I'd guess it's more than $7), so let's call the service a wash.
> 
> 
> Then the $8 per month for the DVR compared to your $6 per month for two cables cards leaves a difference of $2 per month, $24 per year, $72 for three years. And I think this $24 per year is where nickdawg is saying he'd rather pay the $24 as his assurance that the box will be fixed or replaced should something go wrong, and that he could "upgrade" to the newer technology boxes should one come along (if ever).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know Tivo is a much better platform and is well worth the $$$ to many, but I can see where nickdawg likes the rental program too.



Well you're doing the math wrong. First, it's more then 8.00 I believe it's 12.95, but who would pay that when you can shell out 200.00 for 3 years? Or 300.00 for lifetime.


I think anyone who pays the 12.95 is foolish, it's well worth saving up the money for the longer subscriptions.


I understand how nickdawg feels, he's made that clear many, many times. I'm saying for an additional 50 bucks I got a 3 year expanded warranty, well worth the money, it basically gives me the same ability as he does of getting a replacement or having it fixed. And if it's not a hard drive problem I prefer getting it fixed, that way I wouldn't lose my recordings. You won't get that from TW's DVR, they only switch out the box.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15794020
> 
> 
> Well you're doing the math wrong. First, it's more then 8.00 I believe it's 12.95, but who would pay that when you can shell out 200.00 for 3 years? Or 300.00 for lifetime.
> 
> 
> I think anyone who pays the 12.95 is foolish, it's well worth saving up the money for the longer subscriptions.
> 
> 
> I understand how nickdawg feels, he's made that clear many, many times. I'm saying for an additional 50 bucks I got a 3 year expanded warranty, well worth the money, it basically gives me the same ability as he does of getting a replacement or having it fixed. And if it's not a hard drive problem I prefer getting it fixed, that way I wouldn't lose my recordings. You won't get that from TW's DVR, they only switch out the box.



Well $200 for 3 years is $5.55 per month, so add $1.44 per month to nickdawgs plan.










I understand what you are saying and if I did Tivo I'd do the lifetime also. But it really boils down to $42 (approximate) per year difference to rent from TWC for the three year period you referenced. This isn't even comparing the upfront cash outlay to buy the Tivo. At $500 to buy the Tivo it will take nickdawg almost 12 years x the $42 annual premium to TWC to break even.


EDIT: I suppose if you buy at $500 and do the $300 lifetime = $800

Compared to TWC at $15 mo then your breakeven is 4.4 years.










EDIT II: Ah, but now we must factor in the $72 per year for the two cable cards on a Tivo, so now when is the break even point?

Two trains leave Chicago...................


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15794252
> 
> 
> Well $200 for 3 years is $5.55 per month, so add $1.44 per month to nickdawgs plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand what you are saying and if I did Tivo I'd do the lifetime also. But it really boils down to $42 (approximate) per year difference to rent from TWC for the three year period you referenced. This isn't even comparing the upfront cash outlay to buy the Tivo. At $500 to buy the Tivo it will take nickdawg almost 12 years x the $42 annual premium to TWC to break even.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I suppose if you buy at $500 and do the $300 lifetime = $800
> 
> Compared to TWC at $15 mo then your breakeven is 4.4 years.




I don't understand how you come up with 42.00, but taking it at face value and also because I'm terrible at math I'll accept that. 42.00 is still 42.00 less.


The problem for most people is shelling out the starting amount. And as I've said many, many times, if your happy with your DVR there is no reason to change.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15793042
> 
> 
> Well let me tell you how you buy YOUR DVR (rent). You pay 7.00 a month for service and 8.00 a month for the box I'm rounding off here. 15.00. 15.00 x 12 = 600.00 a year. Take that over a 3 year period and you've spent $1800.00......



$15.00 x 12 months = $180 per year


Not $600 per year










So I was just trying to come up with a more realistic way of comparing them.


----------



## ajstan99

FWIW, on my WOW Digital Value plan, I get an SA3250 HD receiver included at no cost and the upgrade to the SA8300-HDC DVR is only $3.00 per month. That's $36.00 per year (or $120.00 per year in Hook dollars







).


That being said, if I had to pay $12.95 per month, I would have never tried the DVR, or if I did, I would seriously evaluate buying my own equipment after a few months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15795622
> 
> 
> FWIW, on my WOW Digital Value plan, I get an SA3250 HD receiver included at no cost and the upgrade to the SA8300-HDC DVR is only $3.00 per month. That's $36.00 per year (or $120.00 per year in Hook dollars
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> 
> That being said, if I had to pay $12.95 per month, I would have never tried the DVR, or if I did, I would seriously evaluate buying my own equipment after a few months.



Are you in your first year? If you are and they are anything like TW (which I hope they arn't







) it will go up.


I've observed many people talk about WOW. It seems like they are a better cable company, but IIRC they don't offer that much HD either.


TW sucks you in by giving you the DVR and service free for one year.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15795747
> 
> 
> Are you in your first year? If you are and they are anything like TW (which I hope they arn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) it will go up.
> 
> 
> I've observed many people talk about WOW. It seems like they are a better cable company, but IIRC they don't offer that much HD either.
> 
> 
> TW sucks you in by giving you the DVR and service free for one year.



I think they are up to 25 HD ch's for the entry level HD pkg. Still not enough.







And a large chunk of those (NFL, Big 10, FSN, SportsTime Ohio) I never watch.

http://www1.wowway.com/event/module/...hannelLineups/ 


What I don't know is whether they have done any SDV yet. As a side note they have added a TON of VOD stuff in the past few months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15795884
> 
> 
> I think they are up to 25 HD ch's for the entry level HD pkg. Still not enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a large chunk of those (NFL, Big 10, FSN, SportsTime Ohio) I never watch.
> 
> http://www1.wowway.com/event/module/...hannelLineups/
> 
> 
> What I don't know is whether they have done any SDV yet. As a side note they have added a TON of VOD stuff in the past few months.



Hard to say if it's SDV. It looks like a lot more then I thought however. You're getting FX HD, I'm jealous!










If you have an SA 8300 you can get to your diagnostic screen by pressing select and holding it until a little envelope appears next to the clock, then press info. Actually I believe that will work on all SA boxes, even non DVR. Then you can look into your SDV diagnostics and figure out if you have it or not.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15794020
> 
> 
> Well you're doing the math wrong. First, it's more then 8.00 I believe it's 12.95, but who would pay that when you can shell out 200.00 for 3 years? Or 300.00 for lifetime.
> 
> 
> I think anyone who pays the 12.95 is foolish, it's well worth saving up the money for the longer subscriptions.
> 
> 
> I understand how nickdawg feels, he's made that clear many, many times. I'm saying for an additional 50 bucks I got a 3 year expanded warranty, well worth the money, it basically gives me the same ability as he does of getting a replacement or having it fixed. And if it's not a hard drive problem I prefer getting it fixed, that way I wouldn't lose my recordings. You won't get that from TW's DVR, they only switch out the box.



Sorry, but I agree with Toby. Never will I pre-pay for this kind of service, especially three years(or a lifetime





















). You never know what's going to happen, will you move, change providers, etc. And some places don't have cable, meaning satellite or FIOS/Uverse would be required, making the Tivo you paid for LIFE useless. Plus, it's easy to get pissed with cable and want to switch, but that decision is made harder because of the $500 + $300 Lifetime Service Elephant in the room.


Also, I like TWC services. I'm finally happy (I know, I know) because I found Monk and Psych on the Entertainment on Demand category. It's in digital, bug and commercial free, and the PQ is a HELL of a lot better. When I blew it up to full 16:9, it ALMOST looked HD!!














Also, I'm awaiting for new services like Start Over and any future interactive or features added to Navigator. Passport even had a card games channel.


Plus, knowing how things usually work, the week after that three year warranty expires, the trouble would begin. At least I know with TWC, a replacement is free. Plus, those Tivos will be outdated, before the SA boxes are. Tivo just seems like a dick company that would practice planned obsolesence. I was it in that video you posted, the suit guy even said that the new search features won't work on the older S2 boxes. Which they still sell(or they did last time I was at BB). So some poor sucker who bought an S2 last year would already have to replace it to get new features which new equipment SHOULD be capable of.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15795884
> 
> 
> I think they are up to 25 HD ch's for the entry level HD pkg. Still not enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a large chunk of those (NFL, Big 10, FSN, SportsTime Ohio) I never watch.
> 
> http://www1.wowway.com/event/module/...hannelLineups/
> 
> 
> What I don't know is whether they have done any SDV yet. As a side note they have added a TON of VOD stuff in the past few months.



WOW LOL!!

















Wow, as in even that list sucks. There's only two channels on that list I want, F/X and Discovery. Other than that, it's either the crap I already have or crap I could care less about having(eg. Fox "News", Disney, ABC Family). And no CNN? BOO!!































Same crap we have, especially Big Ten network. That one pisses me off the most. When you're as bandwidth strapped as TWCNEO, how f**king STOOPID are you to add that channel??? Maybe the add the goddamn Golf channel in HD next. Whoop-dee-f**king-doo!!!


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15795747
> 
> 
> Are you in your first year? If you are and they are anything like TW (which I hope they arn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) it will go up.
> 
> 
> I've observed many people talk about WOW. It seems like they are a better cable company, but IIRC they don't offer that much HD either.
> 
> 
> TW sucks you in by giving you the DVR and service free for one year.



I've been a WOW customer for over 5 years. Whenever my current promotional plan is up, I call them up (friendly, English-speaking CSRs) and they roll-over current promotions and/or substitute new promotions that are available. They seem to get the fact that existing customers should be treated as well as new customers are treated.


Right now, for about $73/month (including taxes and fees) I get the Digital Value Package, 24 HD channels (25 channels on 2/17 when we get CW HD - WBNX), an HD DVR, and 8Mb Internet w/modem.


I did take a look to see what was out there in the fall, but anything comparable would be around $110 from TWC. If I went to satellite, any savings on the video would be eaten up by Internet service costs. Besides, I wouldn't think that any other provider has enough margin to compete with WOW's pricing enough for me to walk away from their ultra-reliable video/Internet service and top-notch customer support.


As for needing more HD, we really can't keep up with what we record right now, and I can rent plenty of Blu-ray disks for the difference in cost of moving to a provider with more HD.


----------



## nickdawg

haha you don't have WBNX!!










(from the person who doesn't even have 20 HD channels, regardless of how crummy they are!)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15797643
> 
> 
> I've been a WOW customer for over 5 years. Whenever my current promotional plan is up, I call them up (friendly, English-speaking CSRs) and they roll-over current promotions and/or substitute new promotions that are available. They seem to get the fact that existing customers should be treated as well as new customers are treated.
> 
> 
> Right now, for about $73/month (including taxes and fees) I get the Digital Value Package, 24 HD channels (25 channels on 2/17 when we get CW HD - WBNX), an HD DVR, and 8Mb Internet w/modem.
> 
> 
> I did take a look to see what was out there in the fall, but anything comparable would be around $110 from TWC. If I went to satellite, any savings on the video would be eaten up by Internet service costs. Besides, I wouldn't think that any other provider has enough margin to compete with WOW's pricing enough for me to walk away from their ultra-reliable video/Internet service and top-notch customer support.
> 
> 
> As for needing more HD, we really can't keep up with what we record right now, and I can rent plenty of Blu-ray disks for the difference in cost of moving to a provider with more HD.



While I'm not a WOW customer (nor can I be, they don't have serveice in COX territory) Ihave friends down the street that have it and they are very happy.


When a company is the "competition" they have to try harder, so you have to hand it to WOW for extending "introductory offers" beyond the original comittment. Dish Network (which is what I have) is the same way. I got $10 off per month for 12 months just for asking, it's a "loyalty" offer. Sure I had to commit to 24 months, but I've been with them since 1997 and am happy. It would take a severe change for the worse in service for me to even consider switching. This loyalty offer offset a price increase. I was able to avoid the last price increase by signing up for "DVR Advantage". Guess what? DVR advantage gave me another $3 off per month. That's a $13 credit per month! So now my bill went down $4.55 after the Feb. price increase.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15796641
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I agree with Toby. Never will I pre-pay for this kind of service, especially three years(or a lifetime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). You never know what's going to happen, will you move, change providers, etc. And some places don't have cable, meaning satellite or FIOS/Uverse would be required, making the Tivo you paid for LIFE useless. Plus, it's easy to get pissed with cable and want to switch, but that decision is made harder because of the $500 + $300 Lifetime Service Elephant in the room.



TiVo HD 250.00 + Lifetime 300.00 = 550.00


Cable DVR and service 15/month - cablecard 3/month = 12/month


Time to pay off TiVo 550/12 = 45 months


If you get pissed at cable and choose another provider or you want to upgrade to the newest TiVo amount of TiVo outlay you are almost guaranteed to recover from EBAY Craig's list is $300. So you must keep your TiVo for 1 year, (550-300) / 12 = 12 months, to not take a loss on the TiVo. Actually, a TiVo with lifetime is going for about $500 right so you are basically break even 6 months after you buy it.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15796641
> 
> 
> Plus, knowing how things usually work, the week after that three year warranty expires, the trouble would begin. At least I know with TWC, a replacement is free. Plus, those Tivos will be outdated, before the SA boxes are. Tivo just seems like a dick company that would practice planned obsolesence. I was it in that video you posted, the suit guy even said that the new search features won't work on the older S2 boxes. Which they still sell(or they did last time I was at BB). So some poor sucker who bought an S2 last year would already have to replace it to get new features which new equipment SHOULD be capable of.



TiVo is the kind of company that has a cult like following because they *do* keep supporting their older models for years after they quit building them. The only time old boxes don't get new software is when they don't have the hardware to support the new features. The new TiVo search capability is just an upgrade of the TiVo swivel search that the S2 TiVo's can already do. The reason it isn't offered to S2 TiVos is because it is being designed to take advantage of High Definition resolution. S2 TiVo's cant do HD. I don't expect to get any additional features from a piece of hardware then it has at the time I buy it anything else is a bonus.


----------



## RonOhio

I gave up DirectTV a couple weeks ago because of a few reasons. Mainly the ability to bundle the cable and Internet bill and drop DSL and phone. Plus I wanted to be able to get a TiVo and have it record all my channels. I was kind of nervous about the TiVo and cablecard thing but decided it was worth a try. Anyway, I received *excellent* service from TWC. The installer showed up at 9AM and had the TiVos and Internet wired in less than 45 minutes (he had to run a new wire from the street). Then right as he was finishing up a supervisor came to install the cablecards. He said he had personally done 30 of them before and I believe him. He knew exactly what to do. He even knew to hang up on the first person he talked to when he called TWC to activate. He "accidentally" hung up and called right back in and got someone who knew how to make the cablecard happy. It took about 30 minutes to install a multistream cc in each of my TiVo HD's.


Either I got lucky are TWC is getting better. Very happy with both the cable and Internet service two weeks into it. I also don't care about the "150" HD channels I am missing with DirecTV since I only watch about 10 of them and TWC has the ones I watch.


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## nickdawg

Wow, you left Directv for TWC??










I understand because I left D a few years back, but if I already had all the HD channels, I don't think I could do it. Especially since D* has CNN, USA, F/X.


I want those channels.


They're coming soon, since TWC is working on SDV.


If you're in Akron it is already active. but we have to wait for the bums in Cleveland before new channels are added.


Now I know why Cleveland sucks, hence my location(see left)!



nickdawg

Uranium Member


Join Date: Oct 2007
*Location: a stinking craphole that is too close to Cleveland!!!*

Posts: 2,193


----------



## hookbill

RonOhio I thought TiVo had a deal with D*. Heard anything about that?


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15799762
> 
> 
> RonOhio I thought TiVo had a deal with D*. Heard anything about that?



Last I heard was 1st half 2010. There has been nothing released on it lately. If it already existed it would have been hard for me to leave DirecTV. TiVo's track record is to strip out key features off is software when creating software for other service providers and if thats the case I made the right decision.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15799690
> 
> 
> Wow, you left Directv for TWC??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand because I left D a few years back, but if I already had all the HD channels, I don't think I could do it. Especially since D* has CNN, USA, F/X.
> 
> 
> I want those channels.
> 
> 
> Posts: 2,193



70% of my TV watching is local channels, 20% is local sports, and 10% is the rest of the HD channels. I was seriously considering going OTA and netflix only. The only thing that stopped me is that I do like sports so you have to have some type of pay tv to get those. I definitely look forward to getting those other HD channels some time this year but it wasn't a major factor in my decision.


If there were any way to get the local sports team in HD w/o cable or satellite then I would go OTA only.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm totally the opposite. I'd die with just OTA. There's too much I love on cable that I couldn't go without. Monk, Psych, Burn notice, In Plain Sight, Rescue Me, Always Sunny in Philadelphia, CNN-RIck Sanchez, Situation Room, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher on HBO, plus the other odd shows to kill time.


Although I'm sure you could get the season DVDs with many of those shows with Netflix, or even through Bit Torrent(which is how I plan on watching Rescue Me this season).


I'm anxiously awaitng more HD as the only cable HD channels I like are the ESPNs, STO during Indians season and Universal HD. 95 to 98% of my daily TV viewing is in SDTV. Only on days of sports events on ESPN or a good night in prime time do I get to see several hours of HD. So once we get CNN HD, USA HD, Discovery HD, etc my HD viewing will increase.


One thing you'll see is that most of what TWC currently offers is crap. HGTV, TNT, TBS, FOOD, A&E, HISTORY, HD THEATER, BIG TEN NET. Oh yeah, and FSN HD that broadcasts only a few hours a day. The rest of the time you get dramatic music and "FSN Ohio" on a blue screen. Nice.










One area where TWC is finally good is that they carry all local HD channels. Something D* couldn't even do with SDTV.


----------



## hookbill

RonOhio let me explain that nickdawg hates TiVo. I suspect that he is jealous because he is stuck with the inferior sa

S units. He is not very smart and you never know what side of the fence he is on. But he's our nicdawg and we love him anyway,


Somebody could give him a tivo and he would not use it.


It is my thought that CC installs usually go well, its like anything else. Only the cry babies who don't take a firm proactive stand that cause all the noise about a bad install. Most people are happy.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/15799472
> 
> 
> TiVo HD 250.00 + Lifetime 300.00 = 550.00
> 
> 
> Cable DVR and service 15/month - cablecard 3/month = 12/month
> 
> 
> Time to pay off TiVo 550/12 = 45 months
> 
> 
> ......




So my guesstimate of 4.4 years (based on higher purchase price) was pretty close.










Each Tivo requires only a single cable card?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/15799600
> 
> 
> ...............
> 
> Either I got lucky are TWC is getting better. Very happy with both the cable and Internet service two weeks into it. I also don't care about the "150" HD channels I am missing with DirecTV since I only watch about 10 of them and TWC has the ones I watch.



This is probably a typical usage pattern for most consumers, myself included. But I'd still prefer to be offered every possible ch in HD letting me decide which I choose to watch. If that means HD ch's like The Fishing ch and Golf ch and Cartoon Network have to coexist with the few ch's I would actually watch, so be it.










But being on a cable system I'll probably never see 150 HD ch's offered in my lifetime.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15802373
> 
> 
> Each Tivo requires only a single cable card?



In TW's never ending effort to stick it to you, not exactly. All TiVo HD's will run on one M card or two S cards. Now it is my experience from talking to other TiVo owners locally that despite the fact that you ask for one M card they come out with two S cards.


Most people, myself included will settle for this just because they want to get their TiVo going, however some individuals use their own card when this happens. The Steve Fry card. And magically an M card shows up, just like that.


Getting cable cards installed is really simple but as reported earlier by RonOhio many people can have a nightmare experience by dealing with untrained techs, and people on the other end of the phone who have no idea what they are doing. Then there is the chance that human error gets involved, i.e. tech reads wrong number or headend person types in wrong number. In this situation headend will always tell the tech they got it right but that's not always the case.


So there is less chance of error with one card as opposed to two, plus you don't have to have the one card paired.


Unfortunately for the S3 owners, they only take the two S cards (or two M cards). S3 cannot run on one card alone. Well, it can if you only want to get one line of digital channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15802386
> 
> 
> This is probably a typical usage pattern for most consumers, myself included. But I'd still prefer to be offered every possible ch in HD letting me decide which I choose to watch. If that means HD ch's like The Fishing ch and Golf ch and Cartoon Network have to coexist with the few ch's I would actually watch, so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But being on a cable system I'll probably never see 150 HD ch's offered in my lifetime.



I agree also with RonOhio on this. Out of all my digital channels the only one I look at from time to time is probably Major League Baseball Network. If I got to put up with the other garbage then so be it.


After TW gets it's HD squared away I expect them to move a lot of that stuff to their Sports Tier, which you will be able to purchase for just $7.50 a month.







No thank you, unless they are real cruel and move STO and ESPN over there as well.


I've got 3 channels I want in HD: USA, FX, and SciFi. Maybe TNT, and TrueTV. Heck my wife wants the shopping channels in HD.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15802494
> 
> 
> In TW's never ending effort to stick it to you, not exactly. All TiVo HD's will run on one M card or two S cards. Now it is my experience from talking to other TiVo owners locally that despite the fact that you ask for one M card they come out with two S cards.
> 
> 
> Most people, myself included will settle for this just because they want to get their TiVo going, however some individuals use their own card when this happens. The Steve Fry card. And magically an M card shows up, just like that.
> 
> 
> Getting cable cards installed is really simple but as reported earlier by RonOhio many people can have a nightmare experience by dealing with untrained techs, and people on the other end of the phone who have no idea what they are doing. Then there is the chance that human error gets involved, i.e. tech reads wrong number or headend person types in wrong number. In this situation headend will always tell the tech they got it right but that's not always the case.
> 
> 
> So there is less chance of error with one card as opposed to two, plus you don't have to have the one card paired.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately for the S3 owners, they only take the two S cards (or two M cards). S3 cannot run on one card alone. Well, it can if you only want to get one line of digital channels.



When I set up my install I specifically asked them to bring 2 M cards out and they said they didn't have any of those so I said bring out 4 cards and a couple extra in case those don't work. When the installer came he again asked me what I needed and I said either 2 M cards or 4 S cards and he phoned that into his supervisor. The supervisor showed up with 2 M cards and 4 S cards looked at my TiVo and said you only need 2 M cards. I think they are on the right track by only allowing more experienced personnel to install the cablecards. Not because it is hard but because they don't do it allot and they dont gear their training for it. The supervisor knew exactly what to look for to ensure the cards were paired properly and how long it would take. I was prepared to settle for S cards if thats what they brought and pay the extra 6/month for 2 cards I didn't need but am glad I didn't have to.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/15802605
> 
> 
> When I set up my install I specifically asked them to bring 2 M cards out and they said they didn't have any of those so I said bring out 4 cards and a couple extra in case those don't work. When the installer came he again asked me what I needed and I said either 2 M cards or 4 S cards and he phoned that into his supervisor. The supervisor showed up with 2 M cards and 4 S cards looked at my TiVo and said you only need 2 M cards. I think they are on the right track by only allowing more experienced personnel to install the cablecards. Not because it is hard but because they don't do it allot and they dont gear their training for it. *The supervisor knew exactly what to look for to ensure the cards were paired properly and how long it would take.* I was prepared to settle for S cards if thats what they brought and pay the extra 6/month for 2 cards I didn't need but am glad I didn't have to.



Did you set up two TiVo's? You must have if you had 2 M cards and 4 S cards, or just one and you had them bring an extra?


Reason I ask because you said you got 2 M cards and you stated the above in bold.. If he paired them or installed 2 S cards, that was not done correctly. And since there are only 2 slots on a TiVo maybe you got two TiVo's?


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15802509
> 
> 
> I've got 3 channels I want in HD: USA, FX, and SciFi. Maybe TNT, and TrueTV. Heck my wife wants the shopping channels in HD.



why would you want to watch truTV in HD ( that's a mouthful)

HD isn't going to make 6th generation VHS crusiercam footage look any better


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15803493
> 
> 
> why would you want to watch truTV in HD ( that's a mouthful)
> 
> HD isn't going to make 6th generation VHS crusiercam footage look any better



Did you notice I said "Maybe"?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15803493
> 
> 
> why would you want to watch truTV in HD ( that's a mouthful)
> 
> HD isn't going to make 6th generation VHS crusiercam footage look any better



True (no pun intended). But then we'd be ready for the next O.J. trial to be in HD!


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15802955
> 
> 
> Did you set up two TiVo's? You must have if you had 2 M cards and 4 S cards, or just one and you had them bring an extra?
> 
> 
> Reason I ask because you said you got 2 M cards and you stated the above in bold.. If he paired them or installed 2 S cards, that was not done correctly. And since there are only 2 slots on a TiVo maybe you got two TiVo's?



Yes, 2 TiVo's.


----------



## lefkas

Is WKYC going to UHF 17 on Feb. 17 as planned, or does it have to wait until June 17 now?


Is Fox 8 going to start sending its HD signal out on VHF 8 on Feb. 17 on or June 17?


Are 27-1 and 27-2 both still in HD ? If Fox 8 goes to VHF 8, 27-2 may be the only way to pick up FOX programming in HD for many of us with rabbit ears or who live south of Cleveland.


What is this SDV that people keep referring to ?


----------



## Inundated

Short answer: Basically, nobody's going to turn off analog on Tuesday in the Cleveland or Youngstown markets. (Well, 67 is, but they don't count, and 45 already has.)


3 won't be able to move to digital 3 until 17 (TBN) in Canton signs off. They aren't going early, either. Oh, and they haven't finished their new tower yet.


8 could presumably go to digital 8 early, but has made a decision to wait.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/15806530
> 
> 
> Is WKYC going to UHF 17 on Feb. 17 as planned, or does it have to wait until June 17 now?
> 
> 
> Is Fox 8 going to start sending its HD signal out on VHF 8 on Feb. 17 on or June 17?
> 
> 
> Are 27-1 and 27-2 both still in HD ? If Fox 8 goes to VHF 8, 27-2 may be the only way to pick up FOX programming in HD for many of us with rabbit ears or who live south of Cleveland.
> 
> 
> What is this SDV that people keep referring to ?



SDV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video


----------



## nickdawg

Did anyone else with an 8300HD (not 8300HDC) box get an update of navigator last night? My box shut off and went through a download looking stage for about 15 minutes. Nothing really appears to be different, except the color scheme. The guide and other screens are not as "blue" as they used to be. Which seems beyond stupid that TWC would be wasting time changing the color scheme(something the end user could do on their own with the original version of Passport from around 2000).


----------



## TheWGP

I can confirm that TW in NEO tries to give you s-cards (presumably for the additional billing opportunity) but I did NOT have a supervisor come out. Maybe that's something new they've started? It's kind of moot for me, I guess, since I went to Dish and sold the Tivo, but I really would love to see Tivos (and competing devices, the more the merrier!) sold and able to work with all kinds of TV service.


That said, I'm quite happy with Dish at the moment, especially now that I've got my antenna set up to pick up WKYC, WOIO, WVIZ, WEWS and WJW successfully!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15806563
> 
> 
> 
> 8 could presumably go to digital 8 early, but has made a decision to wait.



I just read at OMW that WJW and WVPX **may** consider another early shutoff date.



> Quote:
> Stations may still ask to switch early, but not before March 14, because of a requirement to give viewers 30 days* notice. Only WJW Channel 8 and (WVPX) Channel 23 said they are considering that option.
> 
> 
> That makes sense to us.
> 
> 
> WJW and WVPX are the two local stations which will land on their old analog frequencies when the transition is complete.
> 
> 
> WJW will move digitally from channel 31 to channel 8, and WVPX will "flash cut", replacing the current analog 23 with digital 23.
> 
> 
> If WJW decides to take "option B", and file after March 14th for an earlier-than-June 12th flash cut, they have an ace in their pocket...the FCC has, it appears, approved their STA request to move to post-transition digital facilities before June 12th.
> 
> 
> That request was filed with the intent on making the switch next Tuesday, but we presume its status would allow WJW to file in mid-March - if it wished to do so - solely by submitting a new silent notification...the same one it decided not to file this time around.
> 
> 
> WVPX parent Ion has announced a new HD feed of its Ion main programming channel, though Cleveland is not in the first list of markets where Ion HD will debut - for obvious reasons. But we presume they want the ability to launch it the digital signal here at some point...since there has never been a digital feed of WVPX...


 http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/02/mixing-it-up.html


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15807423
> 
> 
> I just read at OMW that WJW and WVPX **may** consider another early shutoff date.



Just when you think the scorecard is set...


----------



## Himey67

Hi, just checked the TWC-NEO website:


On 2/17/09, CNBC World will be dropped from the line-up, and replaced with Chiller. Primetime On Demand will be added to the line-up on, or after, February 18, 2009. At America's Auction Network's request, they will be dropped from the line-up on 2/20/09. On 3/5/09, National Geographic On Demand will cease to exist as a separate channel. Its programming will move to News & World On Demand. On, or after, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.


Enjoy!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Himey67* /forum/post/15808066
> 
> 
> Hi, just checked the TWC-NEO website:
> 
> 
> On 2/17/09, CNBC World will be dropped from the line-up, and replaced with Chiller. Primetime On Demand will be added to the line-up on, or after, February 18, 2009. At America's Auction Network's request, they will be dropped from the line-up on 2/20/09. On 3/5/09, National Geographic On Demand will cease to exist as a separate channel. Its programming will move to News & World On Demand. On, or after, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



SciFi HD and USA HD. Now all I need is FX. HIP HIP, HOORAY!!!!!!


Ok, nickdawg you may be right. I wonder if they will have SDV for us by then?


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15807291
> 
> 
> Did anyone else with an 8300HD (not 8300HDC) box get an update of navigator last night? My box shut off and went through a download looking stage for about 15 minutes. Nothing really appears to be different, except the color scheme. The guide and other screens are not as "blue" as they used to be. Which seems beyond stupid that TWC would be wasting time changing the color scheme(something the end user could do on their own with the original version of Passport from around 2000).



Lot's of power outages last night! Heck it was blowing 78 MPH out at Cleveland's water crib. Our lights went out for 1 second, but the 8300 was off for a long time.


----------



## hookbill

I don't see anything like that at TW's site. Himey67, do you want to provide a link? It's not in their HD section, nor is it on the front page.


And according to your post they are leaving a lot of wiggle room for those HD channels. On or *after* March 15. Figure 6 months later and why that brings us to just about Autumn.


----------



## SCADAczar

I was intriqued and checked for evidence of TWC finally giving us in NEO some long awaited HD. Here's the link:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ngnotices.html 


Actual quote: "On 2/17/09, CNBC World will be dropped from the line-up, and replaced with Chiller. Primetime On Demand will be added to the line-up on, or after, February 18, 2009. At America's Auction Network's request, they will be dropped from the line-up on 2/20/09. On 3/5/09, National Geographic On Demand will cease to exist as a separate channel. Its programming will move to News & World On Demand. On, or after, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD."


----------



## Vchat20

Wooooooah. o.o Pinch me, must be dreaming. Discovery AND USA in HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15809082
> 
> 
> Wooooooah. o.o Pinch me, must be dreaming. Discovery AND USA in HD?



I'll pinch you when it happens. If it happens.


----------



## Vchat20

Fair enough. Though now that TWNEO has let that cat out of the bag, it'd be pretty hard for them not to give it to us. That is unless they prefer an en-masse defection from a large chunk of their pissed off customer base.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15809188
> 
> 
> Fair enough. Though now that TWNEO has let that cat out of the bag, it'd be pretty hard for them not to give it to us. That is unless they prefer an en-masse defection from a large chunk of their pissed off customer base.



I have no doubt they will deliver. The question is when.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15808522
> 
> 
> I don't see anything like that at TW's site. Himey67, do you want to provide a link? It's not in their HD section, nor is it on the front page.
> 
> 
> And according to your post they are leaving a lot of wiggle room for those HD channels. On or *after* March 15. Figure 6 months later and why that brings us to just about Autumn.



Pay up. Remember the "cyber bet"? I want a "Nickdawg is a good guy who knows what he's talking about".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15809952
> 
> 
> Pay up. Remember the "cyber bet"? I want a "Nickdawg is a good guy who knows what he's talking about".



No way, Jose. You better watch what you're smokin' at night bud.










IF by April 1 (that's how long you said and I'm being generous) TW puts HD *AND* SDV in my area, then I lose the bet. Until then you just sit and wait and we will see who wins.


I'll tell you what. I think they have the bandwith right now to add those HD channels so I'm not surprised they announced it. But you don't win anything unless those two conditions happen.


Also I have to receive my tuning adapter. (Naw, just kidding).










If it does happen I'll admit you were right. Hey, consider yourself lucky I'm buying into this story about you having SDV right now.










SDV kind of sounds like a disease, doesn't it?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15810220
> 
> 
> 
> If it does happen I'll admit you were right. Hey, consider yourself lucky I'm buying into this story about you having SDV right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SDV kind of sounds like a disease, doesn't it?



After my box rebooted last night, I was flipping through the channels. When I came to STO HD, there was a blue screen on and it said "Please Wait". It has to be SDV since it had to load(after rebooting). Well that and the fact the Diagnostic screen says "SDV" on STO HD and other channels say "NOT SDV".

DO I have to make it any clearer than that?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15810220
> 
> 
> No way, Jose. You better watch what you're smokin' at night bud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF by April 1 (that's how long you said and I'm being generous) TW puts HD *AND* SDV in my area, then I lose the bet. Until then you just sit and wait and we will see who wins.



Oh, it has to happen in *your* area?





















Why would that affect me in any way? If it happens in *MY* area, then I'll win. It's not that YOU have all the channels, it is the fact they are added SOMEWHERE.



> Quote:
> I'll tell you what. I think they have the bandwith right now to add those HD channels so I'm not surprised they announced it. But you don't win anything unless those two conditions happen.
> 
> 
> Also I have to receive my tuning adapter. (Naw, just kidding).



Maybe Mr. "My Name Sounds Like *******" read our comments on OMW about the space left and they are adding channels?







I can't wait to see if these will be SDV or not.


Oh, it has to happen in *your* area?





















Why would that affect me in any way? If it happens in *MY* area, then I'll win. It's not that YOU have all the channels, it is the fact they are added SOMEWHERE.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15809082
> 
> 
> Wooooooah. o.o Pinch me, must be dreaming. Discovery AND USA in HD?



Don't get too excited - the announcement does say "on or after"...


On or after Feb 13, I will post the root passwords to my UNIX boxes on this forum...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15811059
> 
> 
> Don't get too excited - the announcement does say "on or after"...
> 
> 
> On or after Feb 13, I will post the root passwords to my UNIX boxes on this forum...



Well like I said in reply to hookbill: If they decide to continue to drag their feet on it even after setting that loose date, I'd wager they'd start losing quite a number of customers who have been impatiently waiting for more HD offerings since the dawn of civilization. So it'd be in their best interest to be as prompt as possible on that.


I mean, I wouldn't mind if it got delayed to like April or even May. But having an idea that they ARE working on it and going to get it here SOON is better than nothing at all.


----------



## bassguitarman

Can anyone recommend an outdoor TV antenna installer in the Akron area please

Dave


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15807291
> 
> 
> Did anyone else with an 8300HD (not 8300HDC) box get an update of navigator last night? My box shut off and went through a download looking stage for about 15 minutes. Nothing really appears to be different, except the color scheme. The guide and other screens are not as "blue" as they used to be. Which seems beyond stupid that TWC would be wasting time changing the color scheme(something the end user could do on their own with the original version of Passport from around 2000).



My non-HD box was updated too. New color scheme. Other than that nothing new, it's still slow as hell.


----------



## hookbill

I checked my SA 4250 box today. If there was an update I didn't see it. Correct me if I'm wrong nickdawg, but I think you said that STO was on SDV. I put my 4250 box on that channel and looked at the diagnostic screen. It didn't look any different then channel 23 or whatever channel it opens on. Still SARA software.


I do see one spot that say's it's "ready" for SDV but that's been there for a long time now. I really don't see what can be holding them up other then the SARA to Navigator thing. They must have a reason, but who knows what it is.


----------



## rlb

Sony's newest product might help with the problem:
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...rce=EMTF_Onion


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/15814612
> 
> 
> Sony's newest product might help with the problem:
> http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...rce=EMTF_Onion



Yeah, Yeah. We saw that a few pages back.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/15814612
> 
> 
> Sony's newest product might help with the problem:
> http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...rce=EMTF_Onion



And my Sony PS3 won't play it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15813411
> 
> 
> I checked my SA 4250 box today. If there was an update I didn't see it. Correct me if I'm wrong nickdawg, but I think you said that STO was on SDV. I put my 4250 box on that channel and looked at the diagnostic screen. It didn't look any different then channel 23 or whatever channel it opens on. Still SARA software.
> 
> 
> I do see one spot that say's it's "ready" for SDV but that's been there for a long time now. I really don't see what can be holding them up other then the SARA to Navigator thing. They must have a reason, but who knows what it is.



What do you mean by "ready for SDV"? Does it say SDV is enabled or list a frequency?


When it first started here, there were no channels on SDV, but it did say it was "enabled". Once that is set, then they start adding channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15813146
> 
> 
> My non-HD box was updated too. New color scheme. Other than that nothing new, it's still slow as hell.



Is it a DVR or a non DVR box?


My 8300HD was updated. Still the same speed(which is fantastic, runs circles around the OC*R*AP box)!


Also, the change is supposed to be on OCAP boxes. Look for it in the coming days/weeks. I like the new color scheme. It is less abrasive on the eyes that that bright blue-on-blue-on-blue-on-blue scheme. Plus this version is supposed to open the door to more new features like Start Over and something about remote DVR.
http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...r/default.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15814825
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "ready for SDV"? Does it say SDV is enabled or list a frequency?
> 
> 
> When it first started here, there were no channels on SDV, but it did say it was "enabled". Once that is set, then they start adding channels.



I'm just telling you what it says. Everything else is either 0 or no. And it's always been like that.


Hey, it's SARA it's not the same as yours.


----------



## rick490

Here is something to think about. Just about two and a half months ago, TWC in Columbus had roughly the same amount of HD as NE Ohio. About the end of Dec the got a few new channels then in Jan they received more. Right now they have about twenty-five more HD then we do, including Fox News, CNN, CNBC, Travel, Bio, Bravo, FX, Hallmark, Speed, National Geographic, Animal Planet, Tlc, Disney, Disney XD, ABC Family, MLB, USA, Scifi, Palladia, Science, and a few more. I hope we ramp up as quickly as they did.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15822126
> 
> 
> Here is something to think about. Just about two and a half months ago, TWC in Columbus had roughly the same amount of HD as NE Ohio. About the end of Dec the got a few new channels then in Jan they received more. Right now they have about twenty-five more HD then we do, including Fox News, CNN, CNBC, Travel, Bio, Bravo, FX, Hallmark, Speed, National Geographic, Animal Planet, Tlc, Disney, Disney XD, ABC Family, MLB, USA, Scifi, Palladia, Science, and a few more. I hope we ramp up as quickly as they did.



What you fail to see here is the fact that they still have not totally unified the system. We need SDV to be able to do that and they simply have not provided SDV to everyone yet. The problem appears to be converting old Adelphia on SARA.


That is why the date for the additional channels is set for "on or after March 15." They had to leave room in case they need additional time.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. Sadly I have to agree with hookbill on this one. Here in the TWNEO region, we have our own unique set of problems which dictates how all this stuff takes place and is planned out. You really can't go comparing how other regions have done this stuff when trying to determine what will happen here.


Though considering all the current indicators out there, it seems like they are actively putting their backs into getting everything converted and unified currently, I have faith that we'll start getting more HD offerings in due time. We have Mr. Jasco explaining that they plan to get this stuff going by summer some time, we have indicators that SDV is slowly being implemented system-wide, my investigation seeing 'shims' pushed out into the system to migrate SARA boxes over to Navigator. They're working on it for sure. But as with all things, it'll take time.


One thing that I am hoping for though is that we get as much new channels as they have in TWC in Columbus. Or even WOW for that matter. Wait, take that back. WOW still doesn't have USA in HD. Scrap that.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15822165
> 
> 
> What you fail to see here is the fact that they still have not totally unified the system. We need SDV to be able to do that and they simply have not provided SDV to everyone yet. The problem appears to be converting old Adelphia on SARA.
> 
> 
> That is why the date for the additional channels is set for "on or after March 15." They had to leave room in case they need additional time.



I hear ya. I'm just thinking that when they add the five they've advertised, if they are sdv, then they should be able to add many more since then sdv is obviously working and the limit should be quite high.


----------



## nickdawg

Wait a minute, I'm confused. You think they are going to install Navigator BEFORE SDV? Why? SARA is SDV capable. Remember that.


So to add Navigator before SDV would be beyond stupid. Especially since they're downloading updates for Navigator in the areas that already have it.


But this is TWC, so who the hell really knows!!!


----------



## Vchat20

Nickdawg, you forget they want a unified system all across NEO. Not to mention there are other features they are adding that DONT work with anything but Navigator like Startover (afaik, Passport and Navigator are the only capable systems and Passport has largely been phased out already) and some other unique applications.


----------



## nickdawg

I just saw a commercial. "Rescue Me" fans, new episodes begin in April.


Think TWC will F/X by then?


haha, probably not!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15823940
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, you forget they want a unified system all across NEO. Not to mention there are other features they are adding that DONT work with anything but Navigator like Startover (afaik, Passport and Navigator are the only capable systems and Passport has largely been phased out already) and some other unique applications.



But Start Over and Navigator are not necessary for HD channels and SDV.


They're main concern right now should be a UNIFIED system with 30+ HD channels. THEN, they can work on Navigator, Start Over, etc. What's the point of Navigator and Start Over if you lose a large portion of your customers?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15824001
> 
> 
> But Start Over and Navigator are not necessary for HD channels and SDV.
> 
> 
> They're main concern right now should be a UNIFIED system with 30+ HD channels. THEN, they can work on Navigator, Start Over, etc. What's the point of Navigator and Start Over if you lose a large portion of your customers?




If they could do that I would think they would.


We've already seen exAdelphia on Passport previously. This Adelphia system is a mess. It's really just a bunch of smaller cable systems.


nickdawg they may not have to give us SDV to give us those channels. I'll betcha a cyber dollar they got room for it now.


Still you got to understand. Being on the same system is not having a bunch of people with Navigator and a bunch with SARA. TW has to have an extra guide for the SARA people, and afaik they still can't program their DVR's to first run only. That's not SARA's fault, that has to do with the guide. SARA is suppose to be able to do that if the guide provides.


But then again SARA did diddly when I had it....as you well know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15822305
> 
> 
> Though considering all the current indicators out there, it seems like they are actively putting their backs into getting everything converted and unified currently, I have faith that we'll start getting more HD offerings in due time. We have Mr. Jasco explaining that they plan to get this stuff going by summer some time, we have indicators that SDV is slowly being implemented system-wide, my investigation seeing 'shims' pushed out into the system to migrate SARA boxes over to Navigator. They're working on it for sure. But as with all things, it'll take time.
> 
> 
> One thing that I am hoping for though is that we get as much new channels as they have in TWC in Columbus. Or even WOW for that matter. Wait, take that back. WOW still doesn't have USA in HD. Scrap that.



Vchat, WOW has USA, and FX in HD.


No I don't have the link but somebody posted a link earlier and I told them I was jealous.










Hey what's this thing about Jasco and Summer. He said mid March. Has he said something else recently?


I'm still sticking with my Fall prediction for SDV for us!


Sorry nickdawg. I really hope I'm wrong this time.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15824117
> 
> 
> Vchat, WOW has USA, and FX in HD.



Well all I know is my brother in Columbus who has WOW service still doesn't have USA in HD yet even though they have added just about everything else under the sun like FX, Disney, CNBC, etc.. I dunno if that's changed in the past month or two, but that's the way it has been every time I visit. *shrug*



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15824117
> 
> 
> Hey what's this thing about Jasco and Summer. He said mid March. Has he said something else recently?



Sorry, I was merely going by fuzzy memory on that and just threw out a general 'by Summer' guess. In all honesty though, that'd probably be accurate. I put my money on sometime by June for the majority of all this to be finished. Though all I care about is at least getting a few extra HD channels and USA and Discovery will sure suffice me for a while.







Gimme Burn Notice, SVU reruns, Psych, Myhtbusters, Dirty Jobs, and Smash Lab (when they come back from hiatus) in HD. *drool*


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15824137
> 
> 
> Gimme Burn Notice, SVU reruns, Psych, Myhtbusters, Dirty Jobs, and Smash Lab (when they come back from hiatus) in HD. *drool*



I'm gonna let you in on a little secret about Psych and Burn Notice:

Stop watching them on the regular USA channel. Look for Entertainment On Demand. There's a category called "USA". They have the most recent episodes of Monk, Psych and Burn Notice. Commercial free, bug/screen crap free, and the picture quality is 100% better than the regular USA channel.


I just finished watching Psych, to hell with HD, (high quality)digital blown up to full screen 16:9 is good enough!!
























If only we'd get "Discovery On Demand"!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15824595
> 
> 
> I'm gonna let you in on a little secret about Psych and Burn Notice:
> 
> Stop watching them on the regular USA channel. Look for Entertainment On Demand. There's a category called "USA". They have the most recent episodes of Monk, Psych and Burn Notice. Commercial free, bug/screen crap free, and the picture quality is 100% better than the regular USA channel.
> 
> 
> I just finished watching Psych, to hell with HD, (high quality)digital blown up to full screen 16:9 is good enough!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only we'd get "Discovery On Demand"!



This is what makes you and I so different. You are not truly a fan of HD. You don't even use your DVR. You probably channel surf. Nothing wrong with that it just explains why we argue (respectfully) so much.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15824819
> 
> 
> This is what makes you and I so different. You are not truly a fan of HD. You don't even use your DVR. You probably channel surf. Nothing wrong with that it just explains why we argue (respectfully) so much.



Okaaaaaay?
























Like I said, why would I use my DVR to record an awful looking show when I could watch it much better on VOD? Plus not have to skip commercials, put up with on screen distractions during the show and get to see the real studio credits?


You're probably jealous because you cannot access VOD.


I'm really hoping a F/X VOD comes soon. So I don't have to BT every episode of Rescue Me.


F/X HD is nice.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15824117
> 
> 
> Vchat, WOW has USA, and FX in HD.
> 
> 
> No I don't have the link but somebody posted a link earlier and I told them I was jealous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..............



WOW Cleveland Lineup = 25 HD ch's on the first HD tier
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=17110 


Certainly TWC locally must have near that amount, no?


----------



## Vchat20

Well, Cleveland I didn't know about and certainly didn't realize WOW even offered cable service up there. I've only known them to be limited to the Columbus service area for the most part. But guess I learn something new every day.










FWIW, including the somewhat 'baffling' HD lineup where the majority of the channels do more stretchovision content than what they could offer with native HD content, they also still seem to be running SARA down in the Columbus area with a pretty 90s looking GUI and REAL slow software. Brother has an SA8300HD running SARA and I swear on the holy bible itself that it makes Navigator on the 8300HDC feel extremely responsive.


----------



## hookbill

Nut surprised. SARA on a DVR sucks.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15825741
> 
> 
> Well, Cleveland I didn't know about and certainly didn't realize WOW even offered cable service up there. I've only known them to be limited to the Columbus service area for the most part. But guess I learn something new every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, including the somewhat 'baffling' HD lineup where the majority of the channels do more stretchovision content than what they could offer with native HD content, they also still seem to be running SARA down in the Columbus area with a pretty 90s looking GUI and REAL slow software. Brother has an SA8300HD running SARA and I swear on the holy bible itself that it makes Navigator on the 8300HDC feel extremely responsive.



MORNIN'


*pours Vchat and hook a cup of JAVA* Cream? Sugar?










We also use the 8300HD DVR's for WOW in Cleveland. I'd bet they use the same hardware & software statewide, maybe system wide.


I'll check the SARA/Navigator if you like, but I'll need the dummies guide to do it as I've never messed with the cable box service menus before.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15825784
> 
> 
> MORNIN'
> 
> 
> *pours Vchat and hook a cup of JAVA* Cream? Sugar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We also use the 8300HD DVR's for WOW in Cleveland. I'd bet they use the same hardware & software statewide, maybe system wide.
> 
> 
> I'll check the SARA/Navigator if you like, but I'll need the dummies guide to do it as I've never messed with the cable box service menus before.



Here's your dummy guide as requested:


1. Locate your SA 8300. If you can't find it, call wife.


2. Upon finding SA 8300 approach (with caution) it to manually touch buttons. Have the remote with you too. If you can't find remote, call wife.


3. Locate Select button, push and hold it until a little envelope starts flashing on the front panel. If you have trouble finding either, call wife.


3. Press info button. Diagnostic screen should display on your television. If you have trouble finding television, call wife.


4. Scroll the screens upward with remote button and channel up/down button. It's usually on the right side of the remote and you probably don't use it much. Since wives do not handle remotes (at least none of mine do) she will not be able to help.


5. You should somewhere see SARA or Navigator right on the first couple of pages. Maybe even on the first page.


6. If you have SARA you will see a bunch of Warning messages. Ignore those, we all know it's a pos.


7. Eventually you will see the cable card screen and SDV screens. If yours says no all the time to SDV (SARA) and you have 0's next to every category, then you do not have SDV. nickdawg or someone else would have to tell you what to look for on Navigator. But any dummy should be able to find it. After all this is a dummy walk through.










8. Thank wife for help, go back to computer and let us know what you found! If you forgot everything bring pen, paper, or wife to help you remember and repeat everything again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15825250
> 
> 
> You're probably jealous because you cannot access VOD.



nickdawg first I'm not jealous with you concerning anything. You don't have an appreciation for HD, quality DVR's or even good taste in television programs (Wife Swap).







As far as VOD goes, I hate VOD never used it and never will. It's slow, clunky and difficult to maneuver in.That's why God gave us DVR's.







.


I think you got the point I was making and your just yanking my tail. But just in case I was showing the reasons why we argue so much.


Still doesn't mean I don't like you, even if you are a trash talkin' big mouth. You keep my mind active and at my age I need that kind of style of childish fun.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15825873
> 
> 
> Here's your dummy guide as requested:
> 
> 
> 1. Locate your SA 8300. If you can't find it, call wife..........



No wife to contend with here.







I'd sooner stick pins in my eyes.


Results of Cleveland WOW cable service via SA8300HD DVR diag screens:


SARA

SDV Session 1 = SDV61444-Idle

SDV Session 2 = n/a


So this means??????????


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15825997
> 
> 
> No wife to contend with here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd sooner stick pins in my eyes.
> 
> 
> Results of Cleveland WOW cable service via SA8300HD DVR diag screens:
> 
> 
> SARA
> 
> SDV Session 1 = SDV61444-Idle
> 
> SDV Session 2 = n/a
> 
> 
> So this means??????????



Well, if you keep going and you see "0" and "no" it means you don't have SDV. It's capable, but they arn't running it. There should be several more pages concerning SDV.


I don't know of anybody who has SARA that converted to Navigator, and that's what we believe needs to happen to unify the system.


Hope you enjoyed the walk thorough.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15826019
> 
> 
> Well, if you keep going and you see "0" and "no" it means you don't have SDV. It's capable, but they arn't running it. There should be several more pages concerning SDV.
> 
> 
> I don't know of anybody who has SARA that converted to Navigator, and that's what we believe needs to happen to unify the system.
> 
> 
> Hope you enjoyed the walk thorough.



Loved the walk through. Just the way I like it.










I checked my other box, a SA 2200 (non-HD), and the diag screens are far less "cryptic". Like the 8300 diag screens there is a bunch of *gobbly-***** info under SDV SESSION 1 and all N/A for SDV SESSION 2.


But the 2200 has a very simple SDV screen that simply says: SDV Authorized: NO


----------



## scnrfrq

Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the new Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15829372
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the new Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?



Hey listen Mister. You'll take their piece of crap DVR and you better stop complaining. Time Warner knows what you want. They think like you do!










If your female substitute Ms for Mister but I doubt you are. Hey, how come we don't get any chicks in here?


Upon speaking with my wife I remembered that the old SARA didn't have a time bar either. They had the green space bar.


----------



## nickdawg

Navigator has a gold colored space bar. The part of the show not buffered yet is blank. On recorded shows, there is an indicator of how far along the show is.


Also, on DVR and VOD programs, the part of the banner where the time is usually shown is replaced with a "timer" of the show. So if you are 15 minutes into the show, it will say "0:15" and so on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15829829
> 
> 
> Navigator has a gold colored space bar. The part of the show not buffered yet is blank. On recorded shows, there is an indicator of how far along the show is.
> 
> 
> Also, on DVR and VOD programs, the part of the banner where the time is usually shown is replaced with a "timer" of the show. So if you are 15 minutes into the show, it will say "0:15" and so on.



So the time of the recorded show is on the display. Do you have the ability to change that to time?


That's not bad, I hated SARA and the no time of show display. All it showed was the regular time. Just like the 4250


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15829372
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice another of TW's so-called "improvements" with the new Navigator? They removed the feature that showed you the amount of time you were into the recorded shows, and replaced it with a very hard to guess bar graph. This is progress?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15829915
> 
> 
> So the time of the recorded show is on the display. Do you have the ability to change that to time?
> 
> 
> That's not bad, I hated SARA and the no time of show display. All it showed was the regular time. Just like the 4250



It only shows the recorded show time during DVR playback. The rest of the time, the current time is shown. Same as on the 4250. The 4250 also replaces the time with the VOD show time during VOD programming.


Take a picture of your banner so I can see how it shows the time and if it is similar to Navigator. I can never find any pictures of the SARA menus at TWC websites. Or anywhere else.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15829915
> 
> 
> That's not bad, I hated SARA and the no time of show display. All it showed was the regular time. Just like the 4250



That's probably been fixed in newer versions. Probably not on your system, as I doubt TWC would update SARA if it will be replaced eventually.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15830036
> 
> 
> That's probably been fixed in newer versions. Probably not on your system, as I doubt TWC would update SARA if it will be replaced eventually.



I know there was at least one update. That did not chang the bar display. It added some user features. I will try to get photo later.


----------



## hookbill

Per your request nickdawg. If I get some time I will try and shoot some pictures of the SDV diagnostic screen.


Turned off











Turned on


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15833127
> 
> 
> Per your request nickdawg. If I get some time I will try and shoot some pictures of the SDV diagnostic screen.
> 
> 
> Turned off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turned on



You took a picture of the box?










I meant the on screen banner. The box looks just like my box.


Except with Navigator the output format (720p, 1080i) never turns off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15833482
> 
> 
> You took a picture of the box?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I meant the on screen banner. The box looks just like my box.
> 
> 
> Except with Navigator the output format (720p, 1080i) never turns off.



How the heck do I know what you want.


Do you want this?











Or this?











How about this ugly thing from SARA?











Don't mind the wires, remember this is wife's TV so I just stuck it in there. When they do switch to Navigator she will be stuck with that. That will happen around September.....


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WKBN Chief* /forum/post/15769849
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> We are testing a dual HD feed over the air feed today for WKBN and WYFX (27.1 & 27.2). Of course I'm fully aware of the hit in performance but I think it looks pretty good. I'd be interested in your opinions as to the tradeoff between the hit in performance and the ability to broadcast BOTH CBS and Fox in HD. No guarantees as to how long it will be up like this. I'm going to try and keep it at least through prime tonight depending on whether there are any problems reported to me. Right now CBS has college BB and Fox has Nascar. This is probably a fairly rigorous test for the stat muxing capabilities of my encoders. In other words, what you are seeing this afternoon will be quite representative of the worst case situation.



In watching these two stations via rabbit ears from N. Canton over the weekend, I noticed only a very slight degradation in picture quality (compared to the Fox 8 HD broadcast). Pretty much limited to not being able to read the patch on someone's jacket as clearly as before. The color was fantastic and I hope OTA Channel 27 keeps broadcasting in HD for both CBS and Fox. It's great to be able to switch that easily between channels. Should be fantastic when football season rolls around again.


On another note, does anyone know whether TWC adopting SDV will affect being able to receive QAM channels. Would there be more, the same, or fewer channels "in the clear" ?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15835824
> 
> 
> How the heck do I know what you want.
> 
> 
> Do you want this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about this ugly thing from SARA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't mind the wires, remember this is wife's TV so I just stuck it in there. When they do switch to Navigator she will be stuck with that. That will happen around September.....



Ugly? That's the most beautiful guide I've ever seen. I need a little "heart" smiley.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15835824
> 
> 
> How the heck do I know what you want.
> 
> 
> Do you want this?



I got OT there, but where's the clock? You said there was some kind of on screen clock, but I didn't see it. I only saw a banner, but there was no tab to the left(where Navigator has the clock).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15836000
> 
> 
> Ugly? That's the most beautiful guide I've ever seen. I need a little "heart" smiley.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15836014
> 
> 
> I got OT there, but where's the clock? You said there was some kind of on screen clock, but I didn't see it. I only saw a banner, but there was no tab to the left(where Navigator has the clock).



The only clock is the one on the box. That's what I thought you said you wanted.


I said that SARA did not have a timer on the bar, and I can't show you that because it's not a DVR.


TiVo has a time bar, of course. And much longer, better descriptions. Usually 2 pages with actors, episode number and detail.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/15835957
> 
> 
> On another note, does anyone know whether TWC adopting SDV will affect being able to receive QAM channels. Would there be more, the same, or fewer channels "in the clear" ?



Well, it all depends on what channels they put in the SDV 'carousel'. The whole point of SDV is to put the LEAST watched channels in so that while they aren't watched, that's a huge chunk of bandwidth relieved on the system. Obviously it's be pretty wasteful and useless to put the HD locals in the SDV system (though who knows. If they can get all the bugs worked out they may go full SDV on everything, but that'd be WAAY down the road even if they do go for it.)


But as it is now, we don't get a whole lot of QAM's in the clear as it is. The usual locals in HD, possible subchannels for some of them, and stuff like the VOD and PPV preview video feeds. Not much beyond that.


To put it simply, it's anyones guess. But no one should really be relying on Clear QAM channels to begin with unless you only watch the locals. In which those should remain for the known future.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15836094
> 
> 
> Well, it all depends on what channels they put in the SDV 'carousel'. The whole point of SDV is to put the LEAST watched channels in so that while they aren't watched, that's a huge chunk of bandwidth relieved on the system. Obviously it's be pretty wasteful and useless to put the HD locals in the SDV system (though who knows. If they can get all the bugs worked out they may go full SDV on everything, but that'd be WAAY down the road even if they do go for it.)
> 
> 
> But as it is now, we don't get a whole lot of QAM's in the clear as it is. The usual locals in HD, possible subchannels for some of them, and stuff like the VOD and PPV preview video feeds. Not much beyond that.
> 
> 
> To put it simply, it's anyones guess. But no one should really be relying on Clear QAM channels to begin with unless you only watch the locals. In which those should remain for the known future.



One thing I do know is locals will never be on SDV. As you said it will be mostly channels that we don't watch and probably new HD channels. Most likely existing HD channels will probably not be put on there. I say probably, I could be wrong on that but locals never go on SDV. Google Austin and SDV, they have had it the longest and you won't see it there either.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/15835957
> 
> 
> (27 broadcasting 2 HD channels). _Should be fantastic when football season rolls around again_.















































































































Should be a macroblocked, blurry, unwatchable mess once both stations are broadcasting fast-action images. I always thought haveing a weather sub and a football game looked bad. But to think about having two simultaneous HD streams broadcasting fast action. That should make NBC's Olympic presentation of August 2008 look like a BluRay presentation.

















As much as I've ripped on WOIO in the past, at least they have the sense to broadcast HD as a decent affiliate would: *respect the native resolution of the parent network* and only broadcast *one 480i sub*. Although I do still wish WOIO would adopt the CBS O&O standard of HD broadcasting.


All the times I've uttered "I wish we had WKBN instead". Never again will I say that. No matter what WOIO throws at me. Action News Sharon Reed primetime specials in HD or Paid Programming in upconverted to 1080i look far better than CBS HD shows DEGRADED to 720p+bandwidth starved.


And it's for FOX!!! WTF??? FOX in HD hardly justifies pissing on CBS. We have a real, physical FOX HD affiliate in Cleveland. Honestly, if it didn't exist, my life would be in no way better or worse with only SDTV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15836075
> 
> 
> The only clock is the one on the box. That's what I thought you said you wanted.
> 
> 
> I said that SARA did not have a timer on the bar, and I can't show you that because it's not a DVR.
> 
> 
> TiVo has a time bar, of course. And much longer, better descriptions. Usually 2 pages with actors, episode number and detail.



So there is no clock on screen when you press info?










That's a little setback, but not _that_ bad...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15836039
> 
> 
> I'm strange for dumping a DVR that missed recordings, did partial recordings and has the worlds ugliest interface? Not to mention horrible search features.
> 
> 
> You can of course change that guide to a better looking one in the settings, but the basic design looks like something out of 1985.



That's how the non-DVR Passport looked, complete with changeable guide in the Settings. Different color schemes I assume?


But look at what I have to look at:

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpg 


Look at this UGLY thing. That is the OCAP Navigator banner. It's f**king huge!!

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...HDCimageII.jpg


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15836230
> 
> 
> That's how the non-DVR Passport looked, complete with changeable guide in the Settings. Different color schemes I assume?
> 
> 
> But look at what I have to look at:
> 
> http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/7013.jpg
> 
> 
> Look at this UGLY thing. That is the OCAP Navigator banner. It's f**king huge!!
> 
> http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...HDCimageII.jpg



I dunno. I had the non-DVR passport (standard Passport, not Echo) on an old Pioneer box way back when and it still looked more advanced and 'prettified' than SARA can ever hope to be then, now, or ever.


Honestly though I like the new Navigator color scheme though rather than the stock 'Blue' scheme. Looks more modern and clean. The banner bar could be reduced in size, but eh..What can you do? Besides, how much do you have the thing on the screen anyway?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15836164
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should be a macroblocked, blurry, unwatchable mess once both stations are broadcasting fast-action images. I always thought haveing a weather sub and a football game looked bad. But to think about having two simultaneous HD streams broadcasting fast action. That should make NBC's Olympic presentation of August 2008 look like a BluRay presentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As much as I've ripped on WOIO in the past, at least they have the sense to broadcast HD as a decent affiliate would: *respect the native resolution of the parent network* and only broadcast *one 480i sub*. Although I do still wish WOIO would adopt the CBS O&O standard of HD broadcasting.
> 
> 
> All the times I've uttered "I wish we had WKBN instead". Never again will I say that. No matter what WOIO throws at me. Action News Sharon Reed primetime specials in HD or Paid Programming in upconverted to 1080i look far better than CBS HD shows DEGRADED to 720p+bandwidth starved.
> 
> 
> And it's for FOX!!! WTF??? FOX in HD hardly justifies pissing on CBS. We have a real, physical FOX HD affiliate in Cleveland. Honestly, if it didn't exist, my life would be in no way better or worse with only SDTV.



How your television handles HD has a great deal to do with what you are talking about. Inundated mentions that he sees this from time to time during fast action. I question the quality of your set nickdawg. I never see that. What's the pixel response on your set? My 37LG30 is 5ms. Anything higher then that and I can understand why you might have problems.


----------



## Vchat20

See hookbill. I can't understand nickdawg some days. Gives me a massive migraine trying to understand it.







Guy makes Kerry look like an honest joe the way he flipflops on his arguments.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15836248
> 
> 
> I dunno. I had the non-DVR passport (standard Passport, not Echo) on an old Pioneer box way back when and it still looked more advanced and 'prettified' than SARA can ever hope to be then, now, or ever.
> 
> 
> Honestly though I like the new Navigator color scheme though rather than the stock 'Blue' scheme. Looks more modern and clean. The banner bar could be reduced in size, but eh..What can you do? Besides, how much do you have the thing on the screen anyway?



I like the new colors too, but I still prefer plain and simple over garish and flashy. I still wonder how much memory those flashy graphics and fade effects are eating, all for the sake of "pretty". It's like preferring Windows Classic style over Windows Vista style. I get the feeling it is the same case with Navigator.


Plus, they haven't updated the OCAP boxes yet. Only the current OCAP boxes have the huge banner. My MDN (non OCAP) box has a normal sized banner. That's all I want out of OCAP. I'm anxiously awaiting that software upgrade. I hope tonight.


The blue is part of the reason I despise it so much. Did anybody think before making that? Blue-on blue on blue on blue is NOT a good idea!







Also why I liked old Passport/SARA is the pastel type colors(pinkish purple, light blue, golden yellow, white) with dark text. Light BG with dark text is easier on the eyes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15836262
> 
> 
> How your television handles HD has a great deal to do with what you are talking about. Inundated mentions that he sees this from time to time during fast action. I question the quality of your set nickdawg. I never see that. What's the pixel response on your set? My 37LG30 is 5ms. Anything higher then that and I can understand why you might have problems.



It's *NOT* my TV!!





















It's the programming. The Olympics looked like hell, read the main forum Olympic topic. It was awful because of the source (NBC). Then the Super Bowl. A much better presentation. Now, my TV didn't magically grow better over night(or a few months)







Now, PQ on some CBS stations (O&O) is beautiful. Compare it to the lesser WOIO and the depths-of-hell WKBN.


If you never see that, then I question your eyes or your set. There is no 100% perfect HD programming. Fast action, especially WOIO NFL, is prone to breakup.


IT IS THE SOURCE. If the source is bad enough, I've heard picture quality issues can be seen on analog sets with converter boxes. That usually happens with packed in subchannels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15836389
> 
> 
> It's *NOT* my TV!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the programming. The Olympics looked like hell, read the main forum Olympic topic. It was awful because of the source (NBC). Then the Super Bowl. A much better presentation. Now, my TV didn't magically grow better over night(or a few months)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, PQ on some CBS stations (O&O) is beautiful. Compare it to the lesser WOIO and the depths-of-hell WKBN.
> 
> 
> If you never see that, then I question your eyes or your set. There is no 100% perfect HD programming. Fast action, especially WOIO NFL, is prone to breakup.
> 
> 
> IT IS THE SOURCE. If the source is bad enough, I've heard picture quality issues can be seen on analog sets with converter boxes. That usually happens with packed in subchannels.



Vchat is right, your like a politician. Answer the question, what is your response time? Do you even know?


----------



## nickdawg

How the hell do I know? I don't remember. I'd have to go dig out the instruction manual.


I know it's not my TV. I've watched other programming on subchannel free channels like WEWS and WBNX, and even WKYC(with 1) and they look fine. NBC was the network's fault and WOIO has never looked the same since adding the useless channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15836461
> 
> 
> How the hell do I know? I don't remember. I'd have to go dig out the instruction manual.
> 
> 
> I know it's not my TV. I've watched other programming on subchannel free channels like WEWS and WBNX, and even WKYC(with 1) and they look fine. NBC was the network's fault and WOIO has never looked the same since adding the useless channel.



Gee, I don't know! Ever heard of this thing called the internet? Google your set model number. You think I remember all that crap?


----------



## dleising

Just got off the phone with a TWC rep while I called about lowering my bill (which I kinda did...). For the hell of it I inquired about when TW will be getting new HD channels. She said that Chiller (apparently a horror network) was scheduled to be released today and was to come with an HD channel. She also did mention that they 'delayed' rolling this channel out (big surprise).


...thought I would give the heads up if anyone started freaking about seeing another HD channel pop up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15843124
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with a TWC rep while I called about lowering my bill (which I kinda did...). For the hell of it I inquired about when TW will be getting new HD channels. She said that Chiller (apparently a horror network) was scheduled to be released today and was to come with an HD channel. She also did mention that they 'delayed' rolling this channel out (big surprise).
> 
> 
> ...thought I would give the heads up if anyone started freaking about seeing another HD channel pop up.



_hookbill drops jaw in amazement_: A CSR told you they would have a new HD channel today?


In all the years I've dealt with cable/satellite companies I've never heard a CSR say that. Now if it actually happens I'll be truly amazed!


----------



## dleising

Yeah, It's kinda sad. These people have no idea what they are selling, or who can receive what. I had to keep repeating..."I want this, not that, that that...and I want to pay this, which is what you advertise."


The whole bundle package deals (if you want to call them deals) are so screwed up in how they are written if what these CSR's are saying is correct...


----------



## rluyster

A tip for anyone interested....WTRF-DT Ch 7, Wheeling WV, went live today at 12:30 PM with their permanent digital station. Analog has been terminated. I am receiving them at 75%, sometimes peaking a little higher, at my location here in Canton. They have CBS on 7.1, Fox on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3. The HD on 7.1 doesn't look too bad considering all that subchannel usage. I'm basing that on seeing a little of "The Young and the Restless"...a little is all I could stand.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15843124
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with a TWC rep while I called about lowering my bill (which I kinda did...). For the hell of it I inquired about when TW will be getting new HD channels. She said that Chiller (apparently a horror network) was scheduled to be released today and was to come with an HD channel. She also did mention that they 'delayed' rolling this channel out (big surprise).
> 
> 
> ...thought I would give the heads up if anyone started freaking about seeing another HD channel pop up.



CNBC World is gone on 358(as in ht eprogramming notice).


Chiller is on 223, between Sleuth and Scifi.


As of now, no HD channel added.


I'm not surprised this one was delayed. The other 5 they are adding are coming some time in March.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/15843732
> 
> 
> Yeah, It's kinda sad. These people have no idea what they are selling, or who can receive what. I had to keep repeating..."I want this, not that, that that...and I want to pay this, which is what you advertise."
> 
> 
> The whole bundle package deals (if you want to call them deals) are so screwed up in how they are written if what these CSR's are saying is correct...



As much as I want a lower price, I won't do that. I don't feel like arguing and getting aggravated to save a few bucks. Plus those package "deals" are not deals. Any time I call there, they're always jumping on me to buy internet or phone. Errm, no thanks!!







Unless you can *beat* the $19.95 I get from AT&T, I'll pass. Notice I said beat, because it's not worth changing providers for the same price. Also, I'm happy with AT&T's service. Something(like a few hundred posts here about TWC) tell me I'd be very unhappy with TWC's internet!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15845145
> 
> 
> CNBC World is gone on 358(as in ht eprogramming notice).
> 
> 
> Chiller is on 223, between Sleuth and Scifi.
> 
> 
> As of now, no HD channel added.
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised this one was delayed. The other 5 they are adding are coming some time in March.



Channel 223 is not coming in on either of my TiVo's, and I don't have Sleuth either I have TruTV so Lord knows what else I'm missing.


I don't see it on the guide at TW's website. I am getting it on my wifes STB, gonna check and see about Sleuth.


I called my contact at TW to try to resolve this, when she calls me I'll see if I can get some SDV and HD answers. It's been a while since I last spoke to her.


I just checked the STB, no Sleuth and it's not on the web guide either.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15845335
> 
> 
> Channel 223 is not coming in on either of my TiVo's, and I don't have Sleuth either I have TruTV so Lord knows what else I'm missing.
> 
> 
> I don't see it on the guide at TW's website. I am getting it on my wifes STB, gonna check and see about Sleuth.
> 
> *I called my contact at TW to try to resolve this, when she calls me I'll see if I can get some SDV and HD answers.* It's been a while since I last spoke to her.
> 
> 
> I just checked the STB, no Sleuth and it's not on the web guide either.



Good. I was going to say you should email or call your "contact" about this. Find out what's really going on with SARA and SDV. If they're doing Navigator first or not. And if Mr. Jasso was just blowing smoke up our... .


Also, if she knows anything about Navigator, ask her if they're ever going to download an update for the OCAP Navigator. Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaase!!!!


----------



## shooter21198

well I just checked my box i have Sleuth which is odd that i never had it before also Chiller is up and running


----------



## nickdawg

You don't get Sleuth? That channel has been on the lineup since another NBC U channel bit the dust, TRIO. Sleuth shows old cop shows and mystery movies.


Does anyone else see "no program in guide" as the description for what's on Chiller?


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15845656
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone else see "no program in guide" as the description for what's on Chiller?



Yeah thats happening for me also


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15845724
> 
> 
> Yeah thats happening for me also



Do you have a SARA guide(gold background with pastel colors) or NAVIGATOR guide(bright blue guide or black/gold/dark blue)?


----------



## shooter21198

Navigator


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15845820
> 
> 
> Navigator



Hmm, maybe it's another SARA vs. Navigator thing. Hookbill has SARA, says he doesn't have Sleuth or SDV.


The Navigator people(everywhere) have SDV. And probably Sleuth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15845862
> 
> 
> Hmm, maybe it's another SARA vs. Navigator thing. Hookbill has SARA, says he doesn't have Sleuth or SDV.
> 
> 
> The Navigator people(everywhere) have SDV. And probably Sleuth.



I have guide data for Chiller on 223 on the STB. No Sleuth, however. How long have you had it and what channel is it on? I kind of remember one of the Discovery Channels changing to that. Is it a mirror channel? I looked in the lower guides but I didn't look that hard, I've been a bit busy.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15846019
> 
> 
> I have guide data for Chiller on 223 on the STB. No Sleuth, however. How long have you had it and what channel is it on? I kind of remember one of the Discovery Channels changing to that. Is it a mirror channel? I looked in the lower guides but I didn't look that hard, I've been a bit busy.



Nope. It's always been digital. One of the channels that used to be in the "digital" channels when only digital was over 100.


Should be on channel 221 between Court TV and Scifi.


It's existed since January 2006. We've had it since then, because it replaced Trio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleuth_Channel 


How about that 'contact'? Any news yet?


----------



## nickdawg

I don't think a 'Chiller HD' is ever coming. Not anytime soon.



> Quote:
> On 2/17/09, CNBC World will be dropped from the line-up, and replaced with Chiller.





> Quote:
> Primetime On Demand will be added to the line-up on, or after, February 18, 2009.



I wonder what that will be? Primetime TV shows on Demand? Sounds like another VOD channel I'll like. And less reasons to need to DVR shows!










Also, check this out:



> Quote:
> Effective on, or after, March 1, 2009, the following services will be added to the Digital line-up as separate On Demand channels in the former Adelphia service area;
> 
> 
> Video On Demand Information, HD Showcase On Demand, Local On Demand, Kent State On Demand, Kids On Demand-Preschool, Kids On Demand, Sportskool On Demand, Exercise On Demand, Sports On Demand, Entertainment On Demand, Lifestyle On Demand, News & World On Demand, Cutting Edge On Demand, Primetime On Demand, Music On Demand, TV Guide Network On Demand, Free Movies On Demand, A&E/Biography On Demand, Oxygen On Demand, BBC America On Demand, LifeSkool On Demand, Big Ten Network On Demand SportsTime Ohio On Demand, Big Ten Network On Demand HD, HD Showcase, HD Movies On Demand, Movies On Demand Espanol, International Movies On Demand, Outrageous On Demand, Events On Demand, Movies On Demand Previews, Movies On Demand, Free Movies On Demand, Virtual Video Store Kids, Virtual Video Store Classics, Virtual Video Store Action, Virtual Video Store Comedy, Virtual Video Store Drama, Virtual Video Store Thrillers, Automotive On Demand, Find It On Demand, Movie Trailers On Demand, My Life On Demand, Journey TV On Demand, Spice On Demand, Erotic On Demand, Movies On Demand HD, Movie Feature Channels 1 through 10, HD Movies On Demand, Adult On Demand, Playboy On Demand, Adult On Demand HD, Here TV On Demand, Too Much For TV On Demand, Howard TV On Demand, PhotoShow TV, HBO ON Demand, Cinemax On Demand, Showtime On Demand, TMC On Demand, Starz! On Demand, Events On Demand, Disney On Demand,



This is what we have had since last March with Passport and now Navigator. I wonder if these changes are somehow related to SDV/Navigator?


----------



## shooter21198

Well another Twist in the mysterious Sleuth Channel it disappeared on my Navigator box again


----------



## nickdawg

The Chiller channel has not showed up on my OCAP box yet. There is no 223. But CNBCW is still listed on 358, with a blank screen.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15846498
> 
> 
> The Chiller channel has not showed up on my OCAP box yet. There is no 223. But CNBCW is still listed on 358, with a blank screen.



Now it showed up, I checked again around 8pm.


----------



## paule123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/15843757
> 
> 
> A tip for anyone interested....WTRF-DT Ch 7, Wheeling WV, went live today at 12:30 PM with their permanent digital station. Analog has been terminated. I am receiving them at 75%, sometimes peaking a little higher, at my location here in Canton. They have CBS on 7.1, Fox on 7.2 and ABC on 7.3. The HD on 7.1 doesn't look too bad considering all that subchannel usage. I'm basing that on seeing a little of "The Young and the Restless"...a little is all I could stand.



Holy cow, do I read that correctly? THREE HD subchannels? Those channels will look great on a weekend afternoon when all 3 have some kind of sports running at the same time.
























Must have saved them a ton of money though, switching off 3 analog transmitters and cramming all three on one digital channel.


----------



## hookbill

Great! TW gives us a horror channel version of TV Land. Just what I wanted.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15847514
> 
> 
> Holy cow, do I read that correctly? THREE HD subchannels? Those channels will look great on a weekend afternoon when all 3 have some kind of sports running at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must have saved them a ton of money though, switching off 3 analog transmitters and cramming all three on one digital channel.



Corrections:


1 HD and 2 SD.


1 analog transmitter. The two SD subs have never been available on analog.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15847521
> 
> 
> Great! TW gives us a horror channel version of TV Land. Just what I wanted.



I *HOPE* this never goes HD here. I'll be screaming loud enough that they'll hear me in Erie if I see this channel light up in HD before USA or the others!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15847550
> 
> 
> Corrections:
> 
> 
> 1 HD and 2 SD.
> 
> 
> 1 analog transmitter. The two SD subs have never been available on analog.
> 
> 
> - Trip



At least they have more sense than WKBN.
























I'll bet NCIS fans over in Y'Town are really thrilled tonight to watch a degraded 720p CBS. But hey, at least American Idiots, err "Idols" is in HD. Yippee for that!
























I'm so thankful for WOIO now. Excuse me, I have to go say ten "Hail Applegates"


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15847705
> 
> 
> At least they have more sense than WKBN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll bet NCIS fans over in Y'Town are really thrilled tonight to watch a degraded 720p CBS. But hey, at least American Idiots, err "Idols" is in HD. Yippee for that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so thankful for WOIO now. Excuse me, I have to go say ten "Hail Applegates"



I can't believe it. I agree with nickdawg.


I don't see any horsemen outside... it must not have progressed too much yet.










- Trip


----------



## Vchat20

I will be honest though. During this test of a dual HD 720p broadcast with WKBN and WYFX, it's not all that bad. Like the WKBN engineer has stated, the statmuxer updates have greatly improved the ability to run multiple high bandwidth streams side by side and fill up the alloted 18mbit channel space while giving the content the bitrate it needs at the right times. And with future updates (this is all firmware updates btw, no expensive equipment to throw out and upgrade), it can probably improve moreso. That isn't even mentioning that the chances of having both channels hitting a period of high motion at the exact same time thus starving for bandwidth is probably very slim. With commercials and slow points in shows... (btw, one ponderance to network engineers I'll pose at the end of this)


Though on the fence though because obviously bringing 1080i content down to 720p is going to noticably affect the quality anyway especially to those already glued to the 1080i broadcast. But it's certainly not terrible by any means.


Once again the people like nickdawg that are complaining need to remember that the primary focus of going digital OTA is just that: Going digital and to preserve RF bandwidth. HD programming is merely an added bonus. Broadcasters can just as easily stick to 480i for everything and the digital transition would have still accomplished it's purpose.


And that is not to mention the fact that the Youngstown OTA market hasn't even had a digital HD Fox broadcast till now so you have those people who are probably highly pleased that this is now available and wouldn't want it switched back.


'Can't please all of the people all of the time'


One thing that crossed my mind that I'd like to bring up for the resident engineers or people who are involved with the processing pipeline at a television station: What is the possibility of identifying commercials both locally and in network feeds and have these statmuxers put those sections on a low priority for their duration so that if another channel in the same carrier needs that extra bandwidth, it can steal it from the commercials running on an adjacent channel?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15847754
> 
> 
> I can't believe it. I agree with nickdawg.
> 
> 
> I don't see any horsemen outside... it must not have progressed too much yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



That makes two of us. I agree about the chiller HD.


FWIW my very tired TW contact called me at 9pm. She said the hit for the new channel for cable cards went out tonight. I checked both tivos and no 223. It was late so I did not ask any other questions. If I don't have it by tomorrow I will call her again.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15847689
> 
> 
> I *HOPE* this never goes HD here. I'll be screaming loud enough that they'll hear me in Erie if I see this channel light up in HD before USA or the others!



well it would give us one more "HD" channel

also nice enough to mention the crap hole Erie in that post


----------



## nickdawg

Yeah, but. It's fundamentally wrong to downconvert or change the resolution of network programming. True, it is a DIGITAL broadcast transition. But, if you're going to broadcast HD, you should have to do it right. AFAIK, there are no "SD digital only" affiliates of the major networks broadcasting on the "-1" channel. Only in cases like Y'Town, where CW, MNTV and FOX are on subchannels "-2". If you are going to carry the HDTV feed of a network, then you must present it in the native resolution of the network.


This is bad, real bad. If it is going to become acceptable to downconvert 1080i feeds to 720p, then what's to stop someone from downconverting a 720p or 1080i feed to 480i/p? Why not. You could broadcast a "HD" version of three channels, but knocked down to 480i/p. That could be CBS, FOX and ION. Or to be really sadistic: NBC, CBS and CW.


Where does it end?


And with more of these bottom feeding loser networks, I mean subchannels like RTN, This TV, Me TV, etc what's to stop them from wanting a piece of the HD action? They might push for "joint HD carriage" with FOX, ABC and MNTV stations already at 720p. Or be real greedy and push for HD carriage on NBC/CBS/CW affiliates.


Like I've said before, the best days of HD are far behind us. Now, corporate greed and the unwashed masses of the public are ruining HDTV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15847898
> 
> 
> That makes two of us. I agree about the chiller HD.
> 
> 
> FWIW my very tired TW contact called me at 9pm. She said the hit for the new channel for cable cards went out tonight. I checked both tivos and no 223. It was late so I did not ask any other questions. If I don't have it by tomorrow I will call her again.



Maybe that's why my OCAP box didn't get it until later.


Remember, ask about that upgrade for Navigator on OCAP boxes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15847947
> 
> 
> well it would give us one more "HD" channel
> 
> also nice enough to mention the crap hole Erie in that post



It would give us one more channel. So would Golf or the Weather Channel. But it means nothing if it is a worthless channel. Just like adding TBS in 2007. They had ZERO % HD after baseball and there's still not enough to justify carrying it now. Same with channels 441-448 on TWC. Sure, they're "HD" in the minimal sense of the word, but there's little meaningful content compared to USA or F/X.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15847971
> 
> 
> Yeah, but. It's fundamentally wrong to downconvert or change the resolution of network programming. True, it is a DIGITAL broadcast transition. But, if you're going to broadcast HD, you should have to do it right. AFAIK, there are no "SD digital only" affiliates of the major networks broadcasting on the "-1" channel. Only in cases like Y'Town, where CW, MNTV and FOX are on subchannels "-2". If you are going to carry the HDTV feed of a network, then you must present it in the native resolution of the network.
> 
> 
> This is bad, real bad. If it is going to become acceptable to downconvert 1080i feeds to 720p, then what's to stop someone from downconverting a 720p or 1080i feed to 480i/p? Why not. You could broadcast a "HD" version of three channels, but knocked down to 480i/p. That could be CBS, FOX and ION. Or to be really sadistic: NBC, CBS and CW.
> 
> 
> Where does it end?
> 
> 
> And with more of these bottom feeding loser networks, I mean subchannels like RTN, This TV, Me TV, etc what's to stop them from wanting a piece of the HD action? They might push for "joint HD carriage" with FOX, ABC and MNTV stations already at 720p. Or be real greedy and push for HD carriage on NBC/CBS/CW affiliates.
> 
> 
> Like I've said before, the best days of HD are far behind us. Now, corporate greed and the unwashed masses of the public are ruining HDTV.



Hey. I'm not disagreeing with that point one bit. But you have to realize that 1: This is currently just a test and 2: This is a special case because the Youngstown market currently doesn't have a Fox HD feed OTA and WKBN owns WYFX. Add in the fact that they probably don't have the budget for a second digital transmitter/license/etc..


----------



## Vchat20

OMG. Why can't we get USAHD like right this second?







L&O:SVU marathon from 6AM to 6PM tomorrow.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15848050
> 
> 
> Hey. I'm not disagreeing with that point one bit. But you have to realize that 1: This is currently just a test and 2: This is a special case because the Youngstown market currently doesn't have a Fox HD feed OTA and WKBN owns WYFX. Add in the fact that they probably don't have the budget for a second digital transmitter/license/etc..



Exactly. I don't see a lot of traction to double-up the HD feeds for stations that aren't trying to deliver two major networks on that one channel.


And I don't even believe most of those new "subchannel networks" have HD feeds - maybe This TV does, but RTN will never have one...their programming is is mostly not in HD to begin with, for obvious reasons!


That ".2 Network" out of Columbus was supposed to have an HD feed, but right now, it's having trouble putting on its regular feed. As far as I know, it isn't up yet, and the longer they wait, the more likely This TV and RTN are going to squeeze them off the "diginet" map for good.


The upshot with WKBN-DT? It's just another experiment to see if two HD channels can live together on the same bandwidth.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15848050
> 
> 
> Hey. I'm not disagreeing with that point one bit. But you have to realize that 1: This is currently just a test and 2: *This is a special case because the Youngstown market currently doesn't have a Fox HD feed OTA* and WKBN owns WYFX. Add in the fact that they probably don't have the budget for a second digital transmitter/license/etc..



So? Of all networks out there, I hardly consider FOX worthy of trashing another HD network feed. I already don't like FOX very much. This would be the thing to make me hate them even more.


See, if they own WYFX, then why not upgrade WYFX to a full power HD station?


The CW is a good network on Thursday nights, but that wouldn't mean I'd want WFMJ to downrez NBC programming just for the CW.


----------



## Vchat20

nickdawg, please re-read my post. WKBN (or their parent company. I dunno how that's set up but just know WKBN and WYFX are the same blood) probably doesn't have the budget to run 2 individual HD broadcasts and transmitters like most of the Youngstown broadcast market. Why do you suspect that none of them can even do locally originated HD programming like the news programming and such? BUDGET. It is MUCH easier and MUCH cheaper to just run it as a subchannel as it just means taking the feed they already have for WYFX and slip it into the MPEG container being sent through the air through the muxer.


And just because YOU find nothing interesting about Fox doesn't mean everyone else does. Given if I was stuck with just OTA tv and couldn't get cable or satellite, I'd be pretty darn happy that Fox was finally given to us in HD at the expense of a slightly degraded CBS channel. Even though the only show I watch there is House, it's enough to make me desire it. And I'm sure many people like more of the programming on Fox than either of us.


And WFMJ would be a prime example of another station who could just as easily do this for CW if they wanted. But CW isn't as much a top-tier network as CBS, ABC, NBC, or Fox and wouldn't have priority.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15848176
> 
> 
> Exactly. I don't see a lot of traction to double-up the HD feeds for stations that aren't trying to deliver two major networks on that one channel.
> 
> 
> And I don't even believe most of those new "subchannel networks" have HD feeds - maybe This TV does, but RTN will never have one...their programming is is mostly not in HD to begin with, for obvious reasons!



This TV isn't in HD and it is my understanding will not be.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15848182
> 
> 
> See, if they own WYFX, then why not upgrade WYFX to a full power HD station?



Ownership limits.


The wise thing to do would be to put up a 15 kW LP signal from near the top of their current tower. It'd cover pretty darn well.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15848135
> 
> 
> OMG. Why can't we get USAHD like right this second?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L&O:SVU marathon from 6AM to 6PM tomorrow.



Hey! Look here mister! You will take what TW gives you. TW thinks like you do!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15848223
> 
> 
> nickdawg, please re-read my post. WKBN (or their parent company. I dunno how that's set up but just know WKBN and WYFX are the same blood) probably doesn't have the budget to run 2 individual HD broadcasts and transmitters like most of the Youngstown broadcast market. Why do you suspect that none of them can even do locally originated HD programming like the news programming and such? BUDGET. It is MUCH easier and MUCH cheaper to just run it as a subchannel as it just means taking the feed they already have for WYFX and slip it into the MPEG container being sent through the air through the muxer.
> 
> 
> .



Isn't WKBN/WYTV some kind of partnership now? If they want a FOX HD, it would make more sense to transfer FOX to WYTV who has ABC at the native 720p. And then move the My Network TV to WKBN as SD only. That way you still have a full HD CBS station with one SD sub and two native 720p channels together. That would be a bit more tolerable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYTV 



> Quote:
> And just because YOU find nothing interesting about Fox doesn't mean everyone else does. Given if I was stuck with just OTA tv and couldn't get cable or satellite, I'd be pretty darn happy that Fox was finally given to us in HD at the expense of a slightly degraded CBS channel. Even though the only show I watch there is House, it's enough to make me desire it. And I'm sure many people like more of the programming on Fox than either of us.



You only watch "House"? I watch House along with Prison Break, Bones, Hell's Kitchen/Kitchen Nightmares, KOTH, Family Guy, Simpsons, American Dad plus other events like MLB and NFL. I still wouldn't want to sell out the PQ on CBS just for a few shows in HD on FOX. Also, I'd hate to see the result on a Sunday when games are running side by side on FOX and CBS. Regardless of what they say, I'm highly doubtful that a downrezzed, bandwidth squeezed program will look as good as it would native with one 480i sub.



> Quote:
> And WFMJ would be a prime example of another station who could just as easily do this for CW if they wanted. But CW isn't as much a top-tier network as CBS, ABC, NBC, or Fox and wouldn't have priority.












































































Just as easily? I'm sorry but I don't see degrading the quality of two beautiful 1080i HD networks as 'easy'.










I think the mistake here is that I am surprised. I shouldn't be surprised that today's TV stations(read:institutions of greed) are looking for every possible way to squeeze more money out of their broadcast. Just wait, someone is going to try two or three subchannels plus the HD channel.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15848135
> 
> 
> OMG. Why can't we get USAHD like right this second?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L&O:SVU marathon from 6AM to 6PM tomorrow.



I know. Why do we have to wait until March 15?


It must be SDV or else they'd add it NOWWW!!!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15848428
> 
> 
> Isn't WKBN/WYTV some kind of partnership now? If they want a FOX HD, it would make more sense to transfer FOX to WYTV who has ABC at the native 720p. And then move the My Network TV to WKBN as SD only. That way you still have a full HD CBS station with one SD sub and two native 720p channels together. That would be a bit more tolerable.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYTV



That says they are only managed by the same parent company so logistics would probably be an issue with the relative owners. BUT, moving WYFX to WYTV/33 as a subchannel and doing dual HD would be more preferable for the fact that no resolution changes are made. But like I said: Logistics may be an issues as they aren't owned by the same company, only managed according to the wikipedia article. And I'd much rather see WYTV get their Tx power increased first or else it's all a major waste of resources.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15848428
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Just as easily? I'm sorry but I don't see degrading the quality of two beautiful 1080i HD networks as 'easy'.



Easy as in they own WBCB and it's already a subchannel. Would be a cakewalk to bump WBCB to HD given WFMJ has the equipment to downres their main channel or wanted to risk starving it for bandwidth at 1080i. Identical situation as WKBN/WYFX. But again, it's not as high a priority as the likes of NBC or CBS.


----------



## Inundated

Both Youngstown market engineers who have posted on AVS Forum have repeatedly said it: THERE IS NO ROOM for a new full-power digital signal in the market. Period.


I haven't checked recently, but I believe WYFX has a CP or application for 35, now for low-power digital. I have no idea if New Vision intends to construct that facility, but that would presumably be the likely course. 35 is the displacement for out-of-core 62, I believe.


The digital LPTVer wouldn't count in ownership limits, much like WYFX-LP/WFXI-CA don't now.


----------



## hookbill

IMHO it isn't a downgrade to convert 1080i to720p. Just like it is not a downgrade to go from 1080i to720p. Everything that comes thru to my tv is converted to720p anyway. What difference does it make if I do it or if it is done at the station?


I think some people make to much of a big deal over subs. So long as it isn't in HD it looks fine. I think CSI Miami is THE best looking show in HD. On WOIO


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15848790
> 
> 
> I think CSI Miami is THE best looking show in HD. On WOIO



It looks even better on Pittsburgh's KDKA. KDKA doesn't have any subchannels.


----------



## nickdawg

Just remember that some people have no problem watching SDTV content stretched to fill a 16x9 screen.


Just because you can pull the wool over the eyes of the masses doesn't mean you should do it.


----------



## Vchat20

I also want to point out that I now have Chiller here. And yes, Sleuth has been around for ages.


Now I don't know about certain parties here, but Sleuth would be a worthwhile channel in HD. Last I recall reading about it the situation was that since 99% of the programming there is all originally on film, NBC U re-digitized it all for HD distribution so it's on par with native HD programming nowadays.


Though Chiller on the other hand I'm not too sure about. Everything on there is like Heinz 59 variety. Dunno what you're gonna get.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15849273
> 
> 
> Just remember that some people have no problem watching SDTV content stretched to fill a 16x9 screen.
> 
> 
> Just because you can pull the wool over the eyes of the masses doesn't mean you should do it.



No matter what you say there is no way that stretch SD competes with HD. I don't care how many subs there are. YMMV!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15850227
> 
> 
> No matter what you say there is no way that stretch SD competes with HD. I don't care how many subs there are. YMMV!



Well, I'll be a third party on this subject and interject this: The way the SD channels are compressed to hell and back they look absolutely awful on any HD set, period.


Now stuff that is not horribly compressed like some VOD (mostly high quality content like the On Demand Movies) and DVD's will look miles better than your garden variety SD digital channels. And depending on your set, the image processor will do a fine job upscaling to near-HD quality.


On a side note, this is one reason why I, personally, prefer HD channels for even SD content. Even though they are knowingly compressed, the artifacts are much less noticable and affecting on image scalers than the compression pushed on 480i channels. And as someone who has done tv capturing for scene/torrent releases in the past, I'd much sooner use an HD channel where available just to avoid fighting with reducing/removing the original artifacts and having the final encoding run waste bitrate on said artifacting.


EDIT: While the thought is in my head, I'm wondering if it's at all worthwhile to start a broad database of known channels in the NEO area? Past, Present, Future. SDV, non-SDV. HD format. Etc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15850259
> 
> 
> On a side note, this is one reason why I, personally, prefer HD channels for even SD content. Even though they are knowingly compressed, the artifacts are much less noticable and affecting on image scalers than the compression pushed on 480i channels. And as someone who has done tv capturing for scene/torrent releases in the past, I'd much sooner use an HD channel where available just to avoid fighting with reducing/removing the original artifacts and having the final encoding run waste bitrate on said artifacting.
> 
> 
> EDIT: While the thought is in my head, I'm wondering if it's at all worthwhile to start a broad database of known channels in the NEO area? Past, Present, Future. SDV, non-SDV. HD format. Etc.



Absolutely, I watch Amazing Race on WOIO HD for the Dolby 5.1 and much, much cleaner picture. Remember, in my area we don't have true digital locals they are upgraded from analog. And WOIO looks like garbage on SD.


I'll put up with the bars as opposed to having even the slightest distorted feature. It's an upgrade, I don't care how you look at it. Again as in nickdawgs case (what side of the fence is he on today?







)YMMV. That boils down to an opinion not a definite right or wrong.


----------



## hookbill

I just spoke with my TW contact. She said she is not directly involved with SDV, she gets her hands on it sometime. She has no idea as to when we will be on SDV in this area, there is no date set. She also said she doesn't know if it will be required for us to go from SARA to Navigator.


She agreed with me that SARA is perfectly capable of doing SDV, but no work is being done on it now and she doesn't know if/when there will be.


She said she too is excited about the new HD channels coming but again the date is "on or after" March 15.


So I didn't get much from her. Other then the fact that nothing is being done in our area. She confirmed that legacy TW is on SDV now.


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

CSI Miami has too much film grain in it, and I don't like the "****** head guy" and the "tweety bird broad". This show doesn't relate at all to me---forensic expert women wearing high heels to work?---give me a break.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/15850641
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> CSI Miami has too much film grain in it, and I don't like the "****** head guy" and the "tweety bird broad". This show doesn't relate at all to me---forensic expert women wearing high heels to work?---give me a break.
> 
> JJK



Quite honestly I'm surprised by your post. Usually you have something intelligent to say, but this time you decided to criticize my taste in television.


Grain? Sorry, on my set it's crystal clear and just because you see it on your set doesn't mean it's that way on everyone's. That takes care of the "intelligent" part of your post.


Forensic women wearing high heals: absolutely dumb but no more dumb then every other crime show which showcases their good looking women one way or another. How many female cops do you know that have low rise pants? Unrealistic, but it's television. You can't expect it to be perfect.


CSI: Miami is not one of my favorite shows, I said it was the best looking show on television (outside of football.) Lost, IMHO is a close second. I also believe CBS Dolby 5.1 is the best in television too. Most of the shows I watch are on CBS.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15850259
> 
> 
> Well, I'll be a third party on this subject and interject this: The way the SD channels are compressed to hell and back they look absolutely awful on any HD set, period.
> 
> 
> Now stuff that is not horribly compressed like some VOD (mostly high quality content like the On Demand Movies) and DVD's will look miles better than your garden variety SD digital channels. And depending on your set, the image processor will do a fine job upscaling to near-HD quality..



I agree. I can't even stand to look at the USA on channel 201. However, I was watching Psych on USA on Demand, and with it blown up to full 16:9 rather than windowbox, I *almost* thought that episode of Psych was HDTV. The sound was better too, and I was only getting L/R 2 channel digital.


Even Bit Torrents look better than SDTV cable. I'll be watching Rescue Me via BT if we do not have F/X by then.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15850299
> 
> 
> Absolutely, I watch Amazing Race on WOIO HD for the Dolby 5.1 and much, much cleaner picture. Remember, in my area we don't have true digital locals they are upgraded from analog. And WOIO looks like garbage on SD.



The 5.1 audio on WOIO?



































WOIO has the worst audio in Cleveland. In fact, they're tied with WBNX. I always hate the audio on WOIO BECAUSE IT IS SO DAMN LOUD!! EVERY TIME A COMMERCIAL COMES ON OR SWITCHES BETWEEN LOCAL AND NETWORK, MY EARS ARE MOLESTED BY THE BLASTING SOUND!!


I wouldn't be lying if I said I have watched WOIO SD just to get away from the horrible sound.


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## nickdawg

Wow, I'm so glad the HD version of this never launched. In the 5 minutes I watched it, I didn't like it.


I don't even know if I like it or hate it. I just don't know. There's no way to know what's on, as the guide says "data not available".


Thanks TWC, you really think like I think.
























"Let's ass a new channel with no guide data, just like the combo of WVIZ multicast services."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15851133
> 
> 
> The 5.1 audio on WOIO?
> 
> 
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> 
> WOIO has the worst audio in Cleveland. In fact, they're tied with WBNX. I always hate the audio on WOIO BECAUSE IT IS SO DAMN LOUD!! EVERY TIME A COMMERCIAL COMES ON OR SWITCHES BETWEEN LOCAL AND NETWORK, MY EARS ARE MOLESTED BY THE BLASTING SOUND!!
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be lying if I said I have watched WOIO SD just to get away from the horrible sound.



Turn your volume down, to a sound check on your speakers and calibrate them accordingly. CBS provides the great sound. I wouldn't know about commercials since I record everything I use 30 second skip and tick to go through them.


Fox has good sound too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15851173
> 
> 
> Wow, I'm so glad the HD version of this never launched. In the 5 minutes I watched it, I didn't like it.
> 
> 
> I don't even know if I like it or hate it. I just don't know. There's no way to know what's on, as the guide says "data not available".
> 
> 
> Thanks TWC, you really think like I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Let's ass a new channel with no guide data, just like the combo of WVIZ multicast services."



That is a Navigator issue. SARA has guide data.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15851206
> 
> 
> That is a Navigator issue. SARA has guide data.



SEE!! I TOLD you IT was BETTER!!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15851237
> 
> 
> SEE!! I TOLD you IT was BETTER!!!!



No, remember we get our guide data from a different source then you do.


----------



## Tom in OH

The WKYC website mentioned they were moving to digital 17 after midnight on 2-17-09(and someone talked about it here too) but this morning it appears they're still broadcasting on digital 2.


----------



## wd8kct

43-2 "this Cleveland" banner is up over black...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/15852177
> 
> 
> The WKYC website mentioned they were moving to digital 17 after midnight on 2-17-09(and someone talked about it here too) but this morning it appears they're still broadcasting on digital 2.



According to what I heard on the news the only areas that are going forward with the switch on schedule are smaller cities (Like Youngstown). Large cities are staying analog until the June date.


----------



## HD MM




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15851133
> 
> 
> The 5.1 audio on WOIO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> WOIO has the worst audio in Cleveland. In fact, they're tied with WBNX. I always hate the audio on WOIO BECAUSE IT IS SO DAMN LOUD!! EVERY TIME A COMMERCIAL COMES ON OR SWITCHES BETWEEN LOCAL AND NETWORK, MY EARS ARE MOLESTED BY THE BLASTING SOUND!!
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be lying if I said I have watched WOIO SD just to get away from the horrible sound.



I think I have a good idea for your next upgrade...


an AVR with Audyssey's Dynamic Volume. Works perfectly for instances as you describe above.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/15852177
> 
> 
> The WKYC website mentioned they were moving to digital 17 after midnight on 2-17-09(and someone talked about it here too) but this morning it appears they're still broadcasting on digital 2.



All Cleveland market stations save for WOAC in Canton are staying in analog until the new transition date (6/12). WOAC shut off analog 67 last night.


As last I read/heard, WKYC's new tower that'll hold its digital 17 facility is not even remotely close to being completed...and the current occupant of analog 17, WDLI in Canton, is also waiting until June. Channel 3 can't light up that new digital 17 until WDLI goes off the air, for obvious reasons.


----------



## grantmc

I checked out the diagnostics on my TWC SA 4250 STB and it seems I have SARA and a whole bunch of zeros for SDV, and SDV Authorized: No.........


Does that mean I won't be able to get any of the new SDV channels that TWC are promising? Is it possible to get the SARA STB updated to Navigator software?


It feels like I am missing out on the cool stuff


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/15853020
> 
> 
> I checked out the diagnostics on my TWC SA 4250 STB and it seems I have SARA and a whole bunch of zeros for SDV, and SDV Authorized: No.........



It sounds like you're in the ex-Adelphia Cleveland area, no?


Folks, when you post about cable-related issues here, PLEASE tell us which system, and where you are located. (General city area, not your home address







)


If you know it, please tell us if you're a former Adelphia or Comcast subscriber.


----------



## ajstan99

Well, WBNX-HD went live on WOW yesterday - no big deal there - but in scanning to update the QAM tuners, I saw that SD channels were available through the digital tuner.


114-xxx 11 SD channels

115-xxx 9 SD Channels

116-xxx 4 SD Channels plus WBNX-HD


Seems odd that an HD channel would share with SD channels that are unrelated (C-SPAN, C-SPAN2, Game Show Network, Cartoon Network), so maybe additional channel shuffling is pending.


Also, regarding SDV, while I get the OnDemand stations, I guess those aren't SDV. Here's what's on my SA8300-HDC:


SARA Version: 1.90.5.a110

Switched Digital Video (page 28/63)

CLIENT - Authorized: No

SERVER - Status: Pending


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/15853020
> 
> 
> I checked out the diagnostics on my TWC SA 4250 STB and it seems I have SARA and a whole bunch of zeros for SDV, and SDV Authorized: No.........
> 
> 
> Does that mean I won't be able to get any of the new SDV channels that TWC are promising? Is it possible to get the SARA STB updated to Navigator software?
> 
> 
> It feels like I am missing out on the cool stuff



Here in ex Adelphia land we do not have SDV yet.


Sometime or another we will. But what's involved with it is anyone's guess. I spoke with a person today at headend and she told me she didn't know if we were going to convert to Navigator. She said that SARA is perfectly capable of SDV.


It's anybody's guess when we will get it. But don't worry you won't miss out on any HD offerings from TW. A spokesperson for them has already come out and said that legacy TW will not have more HD then we do, it wouldn't be right so they are stuck.


I'm predicting fall for SDV. Supposedly we will have a few new HD channels on or after March 15.


I say don't hold your breath.


----------



## grantmc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15853302
> 
> 
> It sounds like you're in the ex-Adelphia Cleveland area, no?
> 
> 
> Folks, when you post about cable-related issues here, PLEASE tell us which system, and where you are located. (General city area, not your home address
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> If you know it, please tell us if you're a former Adelphia or Comcast subscriber.



Oops sorry! Yes, I am ex-Adelphia in Avon....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15853313
> 
> 
> Well, WBNX-HD went live on WOW yesterday - no big deal there - but in scanning to update the QAM tuners, I saw that SD channels were available through the digital tuner.
> 
> 
> 114-xxx 11 SD channels
> 
> 115-xxx 9 SD Channels
> 
> 116-xxx 4 SD Channels plus WBNX-HD
> 
> 
> Seems odd that an HD channel would share with SD channels that are unrelated (C-SPAN, C-SPAN2, Game Show Network, Cartoon Network), so maybe additional channel shuffling is pending.
> 
> 
> Also, regarding SDV, while I get the OnDemand stations, I guess those aren't SDV. Here's what's on my SA8300-HDC:
> 
> 
> SARA Version: 1.90.5.a110
> 
> Switched Digital Video (page 28/63)
> 
> CLIENT - Authorized: No
> 
> SERVER - Status: Pending



Welcome to 2007!!!!


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## hookbill

If you are new you should understand that SDV does not mean "SDV channels." It is simply placing current/new channels on in a manner where you STB or DVR will request these channels, thus saving bandwith.


The basic plan is to take the least popular channels and put them on SDV. Like the Jewlery Channel. nickdawg has a good idea of what channels are currently on SDV so when he pops in maybe he can fill you in on what channels are currently on SDV. You are not missing anything but not having SDV.


Legacy TW may currently have a different line up then we do, with some channels we don't have. Follow the link below and you can see what line up other areas have, if you are curious. I'm not.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15851268
> 
> 
> No, remember we get our guide data from a different source then you do.



No you don't. In that photo posted the other day, I saw a TV Guide logo on your SARA box. There's also a TV Guide logo on the Navigator guide. Plus it was on Passport.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15853665
> 
> 
> No you don't. In that photo posted the other day, I saw a TV Guide logo on your SARA box. There's also a TV Guide logo on the Navigator guide. Plus it was on Passport.



nickdawg, I've told you at least 1/2 a dozen times that the guide DOES NOT SHOW FIRST RUN!!!! That's why people here cannot record first run with SARA. SARA is perfectly capable of it but only if it is in the guide.


It may look the same but it isn't.


----------



## nickdawg

Also, Primetime On Demand is up on channel 516. Currently almost all CBS shows are listed, plus F/X shows!!!


The F/X shows are "currently unavailable". But I played a CSI:NY episode. The SD PQ on this On Demand channel kicks the ASS of WOIO SD channel.


CBS shows are 4x3 with a bug, but no ads. And if you watch CBS, you know what kind of sadistic torture device their popup ads are. Especially during dark scenes of dark shows like CSI or Ghost Whisperer.


I assume that the F/X shows will be shown in 16x9, as that is how they are shown on the regular F/X channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15853752
> 
> 
> I assume that the F/X shows will be shown in 16x9, as that is how they are shown on the regular F/X channel.



No FX does not show in 16X9. It is letterboxed!!!!!


The only way you get 16x9 is HD. That's it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15853767
> 
> 
> No FX does not show in 16X9. It is letterboxed!!!!!
> 
> 
> The only way you get 16x9 is HD. That's it.



That's what I mean, it is shown in 16x9 letterbox. Thus, if you watch it on a HDTV set, you can 'expand' it to full 16x9.


USA on Demand also shows content 16x9. It would be 16x9 the way it originates for a 4x3 TV. But expanding the picture gives a full 16x9 picture on a 16x9 TV.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15853355
> 
> 
> Welcome to 2007!!!!



OK, that was funny. Surprised you gave credit for 2007.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15853432
> 
> 
> If you are new you should understand that SDV does not mean "SDV channels." It is simply placing current/new channels on in a manner where you STB or DVR will request these channels, thus saving bandwith.



Ah, thanks. Found this article, which was helpful.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...ital-video.htm 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15853735
> 
> 
> nickdawg, I've told you at least 1/2 a dozen times that the guide DOES NOT SHOW FIRST RUN!!!! That's why people here cannot record first run with SARA. SARA is perfectly capable of it but only if it is in the guide.



Since I have the "New" flag in the program guide of my SARA box, I have the option to record "first run only". Interesting that such readily available data would not be included in every data feed. Isn't this function one of the major benefits of a DVR/STB? Heck, even free sites like TitanTV.com flag first-run episodes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15853961
> 
> 
> That's what I mean, it is shown in 16x9 letterbox. Thus, if you watch it on a HDTV set, you can 'expand' it to full 16x9.
> 
> 
> USA on Demand also shows content 16x9. It would be 16x9 the way it originates for a 4x3 TV. But expanding the picture gives a full 16x9 picture on a 16x9 TV.



Here's a good article explaining aspect ratios:

http://www.dishuser.org/aspect.php


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15854521
> 
> 
> Since I have the "New" flag in the program guide of my SARA box, I have the option to record "first run only". Interesting that such readily available data would not be included in every data feed. Isn't this function one of the major benefits of a DVR/STB? Heck, even free sites like TitanTV.com flag first-run episodes.



If that's so then I would say we do have the same guide as nickdawg. I thought I would see that on the STB, guess I was wrong.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15853313
> 
> 
> ................
> 
> Also, regarding SDV, while I get the OnDemand stations, I guess those aren't SDV. Here's what's on my SA8300-HDC:
> 
> 
> SARA Version: 1.90.5.a110
> 
> Switched Digital Video (page 28/63)
> 
> CLIENT - Authorized: No
> 
> SERVER - Status: Pending



I think our WOW boxes are ready and capable for SDV but it has not been implemented yet. That's how I read the diag screens anyway.


----------



## hookbill

I didn't see the comment about On Demand. On Demand in all essence IS SDV - but not really.

















OK, SDV works kind of like On Demand. You request the channel, it sends it to you. That's how SDV works. Only SDV works seamlessly, you won't see the delay like you do with On Demand.


----------



## paule123

TWC was hard at work today. I saw two of their trucks parked in the Crazy Horse lot this afternoon.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15855539
> 
> 
> TWC was hard at work today. I saw two of their trucks parked in the Crazy Horse lot this afternoon.



Where SDV is just another STD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15855236
> 
> 
> I didn't see the comment about On Demand. On Demand in all essence IS SDV - but not really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, SDV works kind of like On Demand. You request the channel, it sends it to you. That's how SDV works. Only SDV works seamlessly, you won't see the delay like you do with On Demand.



Yep!! The channels work jus like any other cable channel. Well, if you have a SA STB, that is!







Only once have I seen a "Please Wait" message on a live SDV channel. And that was after a reboot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15855600
> 
> 
> Yep!! The channels work jus like any other cable channel. Well, if you have a SA STB, that is!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only once have I seen a "Please Wait" message on a live SDV channel. And that was after a reboot.



Translation: His 8600 crashed.

















Or was that your STB?


----------



## Vchat20

I dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet, but Chiller is also marked as SDV on this end in legacy territory. Pretty much guessing most new channels added are gonna be put into the SDV list.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15855781
> 
> 
> I dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet, but Chiller is also marked as SDV on this end in legacy territory. Pretty much guessing most new channels added are gonna be put into the SDV list.



Considering all the popular channels are already available I would tend to agree. And you can expect to see more channels going over there, including new HD channels. Eventually. If they ever really get here!


----------



## hookbill

Any TiVo people out there getting this? My headend person says she was able to get it on their TiVo but I seem to be having issues. One of my TiVo's acknowledges the existance of the channel, the other is not even seeing it. I've done guided set ups but that didn't help. My headend person is still working on it, probably something in the stream again.


If I never get it doesn't matter. I'll never look at it anyway.


----------



## GregF2

I wonder why the Cavs are not in HD tonight. The schedule says they should be on TW FSNHD, but instead there is a Hockey game????


----------



## GregF2

Now it is on. What a difference the Cavs in HD makes!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/15856557
> 
> 
> I wonder why the Cavs are not in HD tonight. The schedule says they should be on TW FSNHD, but instead there is a Hockey game????


----------



## Jigga Moog

I have E* and the Cavs are in HD on FSN Ohio.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15853335
> 
> 
> Here in ex Adelphia land we do not have SDV yet.
> 
> 
> Sometime or another we will. But what's involved with it is anyone's guess. I spoke with a person today at headend and she told me she didn't know if we were going to convert to Navigator. She said that SARA is perfectly capable of SDV.
> 
> 
> It's anybody's guess when we will get it. But don't worry you won't miss out on any HD offerings from TW. A spokesperson for them has already come out and said that legacy TW will not have more HD then we do, it wouldn't be right so they are stuck.
> 
> 
> I'm predicting fall for SDV. Supposedly we will have a few new HD channels on or after March 15.
> 
> 
> I say don't hold your breath.



Hookbill, I notice on the TWC notices page that some Adelphia areas are having many changes on March 1st. Is this your area? Maybe this is tied with the SDV.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ngnotices.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15859561
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I notice on the TWC notices page that some Adelphia areas are having many changes on March 1st. Is this your area? Maybe this is tied with the SDV.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ngnotices.html



The vast majority of that had to do with On Demand. On Demand has nothing to do with SDV. Also was the usual advisory that some service may not renewal that is required when a contract ends. Those channels will more then likely renew.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15859670
> 
> 
> The vast majority of that had to do with On Demand. On Demand has nothing to do with SDV. Also was the usual advisory that some service may not renewal that is required when a contract ends. Those channels will more then likely renew.



I wouldn't be too sure. If they are adding vod services, it might be part of a bandwith expansion in the area which could be a result of sdv releasing dedicated bandwith allocations.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15860756
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be too sure. If they are adding vod services, it might be part of a bandwith expansion in the area which could be a result of sdv releasing dedicated bandwith allocations.



Rick, respectfully I say to you that you really need to understand SDV a little better.


I've been following the progress of SDV for over 2 and a half years, I started getting into it as a result of wanting to purchase my TiVo. I understand EXACTLY how it works. And On Demand is not part of it.


On Demand is not part of any effort to conserve bandwith, that is simply a benefit of cable. Many people love On Demand so Time Warner is simply meeting customer needs.


While the two may sound similar they are in fact as different as night and day. When you take channels that are broadcasting live and put them on SDV, that is conserving bandwith. The technology is totally different.


Think about it a few seconds. With On Demand you are not removing existing channels off the cable you are just making programming more convenient. SDV is calling up the live programming on a one to one basis. Totally different.


----------



## Speedskater

Cox Cleveland in it's infinite wisdom just added WOAC-HD !

Now, I don't think that WOAC has any real programs let alone high def programs.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15860962
> 
> 
> Rick, respectfully I say to you that you really need to understand SDV a little better.
> 
> 
> I've been following the progress of SDV for over 2 and a half years, I started getting into it as a result of wanting to purchase my TiVo. I understand EXACTLY how it works. And On Demand is not part of it.
> 
> 
> On Demand is not part of any effort to conserve bandwith, that is simply a benefit of cable. Many people love On Demand so Time Warner is simply meeting customer needs.
> 
> 
> While the two may sound similar they are in fact as different as night and day. When you take channels that are broadcasting live and put them on SDV, that is conserving bandwith. The technology is totally different.
> 
> 
> Think about it a few seconds. With On Demand you are not removing existing channels off the cable you are just making programming more convenient. SDV is calling up the live programming on a one to one basis. Totally different.



I saw that VOD channel thing. Actually, that might have more to do with Navigator, which is indirectly tied to SDV.


On Navigator, we've had the VOD channels like that since the beginning. What that Programming Notice says is those services will be added as individual channels. Which sounds like they're taking the VOD programs off channel 1 and moving them into the 500s range.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/15861817
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland in it's infinite wisdom just added WOAC-HD !
> 
> Now, I don't think that WOAC has any real programs let alone high def programs.



Is it really at a HD resolution (720p/1080i) or is it just digital and called "HD"?


Mistake or attempt to increase HD channel numbers??


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15860962
> 
> 
> Rick, respectfully I say to you that you really need to understand SDV a little better.
> 
> 
> I've been following the progress of SDV for over 2 and a half years, I started getting into it as a result of wanting to purchase my TiVo. I understand EXACTLY how it works. And On Demand is not part of it.
> 
> 
> On Demand is not part of any effort to conserve bandwith, that is simply a benefit of cable. Many people love On Demand so Time Warner is simply meeting customer needs.
> 
> 
> While the two may sound similar they are in fact as different as night and day. When you take channels that are broadcasting live and put them on SDV, that is conserving bandwith. The technology is totally different.
> 
> 
> Think about it a few seconds. With On Demand you are not removing existing channels off the cable you are just making programming more convenient. SDV is calling up the live programming on a one to one basis. Totally different.




Actually Hookbill, on demand technology is very close to sdv. They both only consume bandwidth when someone uses them. Also they both need dedicated frequencys that are shared by all of the on demands/sdv channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15861980
> 
> 
> I saw that VOD channel thing. Actually, that might have more to do with Navigator, which is indirectly tied to SDV.
> 
> 
> On Navigator, we've had the VOD channels like that since the beginning. What that Programming Notice says is those services will be added as individual channels. Which sounds like they're taking the VOD programs off channel 1 and moving them into the 500s range.




















nickdawg we have a great deal of On Demand right now. They probably are just getting us caught up.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/15853020
> 
> 
> I checked out the diagnostics on my TWC SA 4250 STB and it seems I have SARA and a whole bunch of zeros for SDV, and SDV Authorized: No.........
> 
> 
> Does that mean I won't be able to get any of the new SDV channels that TWC are promising? Is it possible to get the SARA STB updated to Navigator software?
> 
> 
> It feels like I am missing out on the cool stuff



Trust me, you do not WANT Navigator on that 4250 STB. Any of the HDC boxes(4250,8300) are horrible with Navigator. Like elecrticity and water, bad combination.


Many times I've dreamed of hitting that box with a sledge hammer for an hour!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15862034
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nickdawg we have a great deal of On Demand right now. They probably are just getting us caught up.



Oh good, you're here.


Where are your VOD Channels? Are they on channel 1 or in the 500s? Do-

you have Entertainment On Demand on channel 512? News and World on 514? Cutting Edge On Demand on 515?


Also, speaking of TWC, those Jass-holes







still haven't added Primetime On Demand on the 4250HDC. Thanks alot!! When a VOD channel I finally want comes out, they choose not to add it to the OCAP boxes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15862076
> 
> 
> Oh good, you're here.
> 
> 
> Where are your VOD Channels? Are they on channel 1 or in the 500s? Do-
> 
> you have Entertainment On Demand on channel 512? News and World on 514? Cutting Edge On Demand on 515?
> 
> 
> Also, speaking of TWC, those Jass-holes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still haven't added Primetime On Demand on the 4250HDC. Thanks alot!! When a VOD channel I finally want comes out, they choose not to add it to the OCAP boxes.



I'm not sure because really I'm not an On Demand person, the wife is. I brought her to it and showed her how it works. I think the way it works now is you go to channel 1 and you access everything from there. I know The Reality Channel is one of them, and there is a bunch more but sorry, I can't tell you exactly what they all are. And since I'm a TiVo person my box doesn't access On Demand, which to me is no lost since I don't use it anyway.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15861998
> 
> 
> Is it really at a HD resolution (720p/1080i) or is it just digital and called "HD"?
> 
> 
> Mistake or attempt to increase HD channel numbers??



I don't know if WOAC is broadcasting at 720p/1080i (I'll check later)

But, COX sends all channels in digital, with analog copies for channels 2 to 99.

This is ch. 712 labeled WOAC-DT like a lot of other HD stations and is in the HD tier.


----------



## hookbill

I don't see any HD for that channel. It looks like it's an OTA shopping channel from what I gather.


They have shut down their analog signal from what I read. And they are owned by Scripts.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15862076
> 
> 
> Oh good, you're here.
> 
> 
> Where are your VOD Channels? Are they on channel 1 or in the 500s? Do-
> 
> you have Entertainment On Demand on channel 512? News and World on 514? Cutting Edge On Demand on 515?
> 
> 
> Also, speaking of TWC, those Jass-holes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still haven't added Primetime On Demand on the 4250HDC. Thanks alot!! When a VOD channel I finally want comes out, they choose not to add it to the OCAP boxes.



Nickdawg, do you have both type boxes? hd and hdc? I'm surprised it would work on one but not the other. I looked at Primetime On Demand last night and I saw there were a bunch of CBS shows, but only a couple NBC shows I think. I didn't try watching any of them so I don't know if they worked or not. I also noticed that some Scifi Channel stuff was on Cutting Edge. I would use them more often if they were in HD.


----------



## Trip in VA

Scripps sold WOAC-67 and its other former Shop at Home stations to Multicultural Broadcasting, who eventually plans to program the stations with Asian-language fare. Not sure how successful that'd be on WOAC or WRAY, but...


And I've seen nothing to suggest that 67-1 is in HD, given that none of the other Multicultural Broadcasting stations are in HD.


- Trip


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15862130
> 
> 
> I'm not sure because really I'm not an On Demand person, the wife is. I brought her to it and showed her how it works. I think the way it works now is you go to channel 1 and you access everything from there. I know The Reality Channel is one of them, and there is a bunch more but sorry, I can't tell you exactly what they all are. And since I'm a TiVo person my box doesn't access On Demand, which to me is no lost since I don't use it anyway.



I'm just the opposite.







I LOVE VOD!


It's a great way to watch shows from Discovery Ch, A&E, C-SPAN, History Ch, Nat. Geographic, TLC, Science Ch, Travel Ch, HGTV, etc..., plus VOD for any premium ch's you might subscribe too (HBO, TMC, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime, etc..).


- missed non-premium shows

- missed news shows

- premium ch movies

- premium ch series

- premium ch specials


Great example: I turned my parents onto the Tudors series on Showtime. But they started in season two. I just pointed them to their Showtime VOD service and right there was "Tudors season one" all in one remote click.










They have an entire Kids VOD ch as well. No idea what is on there but that sure would be nice for those with kids.


----------



## Tim Lones

WOAC has mostly Infomercials with the occasional brokered local show or religious program. I wouldnt expect them to do an Asian/Ethnic format if they havent done so in the last 3 years..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15862476
> 
> 
> I'm just the opposite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE VOD!
> 
> 
> It's a great way to watch shows from Discovery Ch, A&E, C-SPAN, History Ch, Nat. Geographic, TLC, Science Ch, Travel Ch, HGTV, etc..., plus VOD for any premium ch's you might subscribe too (HBO, TMC, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime, etc..).
> 
> 
> - missed non-premium shows
> 
> - missed news shows
> 
> - premium ch movies
> 
> - premium ch series
> 
> - premium ch specials
> 
> 
> Great example: I turned my parents onto the Tudors series on Showtime. But they started in season two. I just pointed them to their Showtime VOD service and right there was "Tudors season one" all in one remote click.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have an entire Kids VOD ch as well. No idea what is on there but that sure would be nice for those with kids.



Yeah, lots of people love it. Well, if we all liked the same thing the world would be a boring place. Of course sometimes boredom may be more welcome then pulling my hair out dealing with some people in this forum.


I'll leave you to speculate who that is. It shouldn't take you long to figure out.










Edit: Did you see the Tudors in HD?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/15862312
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, do you have both type boxes? hd and hdc? I'm surprised it would work on one but not the other. I looked at Primetime On Demand last night and I saw there were a bunch of CBS shows, but only a couple NBC shows I think. I didn't try watching any of them so I don't know if they worked or not. I also noticed that some Scifi Channel stuff was on Cutting Edge. I would use them more often if they were in HD.



HD vs. HDC are two entirely different animals. They use different software and even different software programming. That's why the HD box is better than the HDC box. The HD box has always worked, from Passport to both versions of Navigator. The HDC box has never worked. I had one in the fall of 2007 that sucked, the one I have since January 2009 still sucks the same way. They have not updated software in a year and a half.

OCAP is the work of *SATAN*!!!








































I'm starting to warm up to VOD. I used to think it was a waste of space, but now that they add shows I like, I'm starting to like it.


It doesn't have to be HD. If you watch shows on USA (Entertainment 512) or Scifi (Cutting Edge 515 ?) the picture quality is better than watching the actual USA or Scifi channel. And look at the CBS shows in SD on Primetime On Demand, the picture quality is better than anything I've ever seen on WOIO SD.


I don't really care about HD. I'll take good quality SD as well. The episode of Psych I watched last Saturday on 512 looked about as good as HD, in 480i 'zoomed' to 16:9.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864001
> 
> 
> HD vs. HDC are two entirely different animals. They use different software and even different software programming. That's why the HD box is better than the HDC box. The HD box has always worked, from Passport to both versions of Navigator. The HDC box has never worked. I had one in the fall of 2007 that sucked, the one I have since January 2009 still sucks the same way. They have not updated software in a year and a half.
> 
> OCAP is the work of *SATAN*!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to warm up to VOD. I used to think it was a waste of space, but now that they add shows I like, I'm starting to like it.
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to be HD. If you watch shows on USA (Entertainment 512) or Scifi (Cutting Edge 515 ?) the picture quality is better than watching the actual USA or Scifi channel. And look at the CBS shows in SD on Primetime On Demand, the picture quality is better than anything I've ever seen on WOIO SD.
> 
> 
> I don't really care about HD. I'll take good quality SD as well. The episode of Psych I watched last Saturday on 512 looked about as good as HD, in 480i 'zoomed' to 16:9.



What channel is Primetime on Demand on? Was it just added?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15862476
> 
> 
> I'm just the opposite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I LOVE VOD!
> 
> 
> It's a great way to watch shows from Discovery Ch, A&E, C-SPAN, History Ch, Nat. Geographic, TLC, Science Ch, Travel Ch, HGTV, etc..., plus VOD for any premium ch's you might subscribe too (HBO, TMC, Starz, Cinemax, Showtime, etc..).
> 
> 
> - missed non-premium shows
> 
> - missed news shows
> 
> - premium ch movies
> 
> - premium ch series
> 
> - premium ch specials
> 
> 
> Great example: I turned my parents onto the Tudors series on Showtime. But they started in season two. I just pointed them to their Showtime VOD service and right there was "Tudors season one" all in one remote click.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have an entire Kids VOD ch as well. No idea what is on there but that sure would be nice for those with kids.



I'm warming up to it now. At first, it was just premium channels and movies only. I like the other content they are adding, like USA, SCIFI and now CBS and NBC. Also Primetime On Demand has access to F/X, so I hope Rescue Me will be there once that premieres. Saves me the trouble of having to download BTs every week







. The F/X shows now work on the MDN box, I briefly looked at an episode of Nip/Tuck. Far superior to what you would see on the regular TV version.


Now if only ABC would add content too, so I don't have to worry about recording 'Lost' anymore!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15864069
> 
> 
> What channel is Primetime on Demand on? Was it just added?



If you have Navigator, it should be on channel 516. Right now it has programming from CBS, some from NBC and some from F/X.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864098
> 
> 
> Now if only ABC would add content too, so I don't have to worry about recording 'Lost' anymore!



For your sake I certainly hope they do. I sure wouldn't want to rely on that DVR.
























Sorry, you kind of left yourself open. I couldn't resist.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15862317
> 
> 
> Scripps sold WOAC-67 and its other former Shop at Home stations to Multicultural Broadcasting, who eventually plans to program the stations with Asian-language fare. Not sure how successful that'd be on WOAC or WRAY, but...
> 
> 
> And I've seen nothing to suggest that 67-1 is in HD, given that none of the other Multicultural Broadcasting stations are in HD.
> 
> 
> - Trip



I've been getting WOAC-*DT* OTA on my E*622. It's the same as WQHS-DT, one SD digital feed, period. No HD, no subchannels.


(maybe they should lend some of their wasted bandwidth to WKBN-DT







)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15864373
> 
> 
> For your sake I certainly hope they do. I sure wouldn't want to rely on that DVR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, you kind of left yourself open. I couldn't resist.



PFFFFFT!!!
























On another good note, mark your calendars for Sunday April 19. The new season of "In Plain Sight" premieres at 10pm on USA HD.


I'm so glad it is Sunday at 10pm, since there is NOTHING at all on Sunday nights. No need to worrk about DVR sapce for that show, I can watch it live!!!














YES!! YES!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864546
> 
> 
> PFFFFFT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On another good note, mark your calendars for Sunday April 19. The new season of "In Plain Sight" premieres at 10pm on USA HD.
> 
> 
> I'm so glad it is Sunday at 10pm, since there is NOTHING at all on Sunday nights. No need to worrk about DVR sapce for that show, I can watch it live!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YES!! YES!!



Didn't that get cancelled? Are you sure they are new ones?


And don't count your chickens before they hatch.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15863406
> 
> 
> Yeah, lots of people love it. Well, if we all liked the same thing the world would be a boring place. Of course sometimes boredom may be more welcome then pulling my hair out dealing with some people in this forum.
> 
> 
> I'll leave you to speculate who that is. It shouldn't take you long to figure out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Did you see the Tudors in HD?













I don't know if the Tudors are offered in HD via cable. There is a separate HD VOD service which costs extra, dunno if it would be on there. The Showtime VOD, through their own VOD ch and the Premium VOD ch, are all just digital cable. Like all of the movie ch's there is a single HD ch, a duplicate of their primary digital ch.


I didn't get HD cable service till last summer (which is why I've had my OTA tuner) and was well after the season for the Tudors. It may well be offered on the Showtime HD ch, I'll let you know in April.










The Premium VOD ch is just a duplicate of all of the subscription movie ch's, but in a one ch location for ease of use I guess.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15864571
> 
> 
> Didn't that get cancelled? Are you sure they are new ones?
> 
> 
> And don't count your chickens before they hatch.



Yes, they are new ones. I saw a commercial the other day. Ironically, I see the ads on Universal HD. Every time I watch that channel, I'm harassed by ads for shows on a channel I don't get: USA HD. AAAARRRRRGHH!!!!!































And no, "it didn't get cancelled". It was one of cable's best new shows last summer. If you haven't watched it, DO IT NOW!! It is fantastic.


Mary Shannon is like the "Anti-Closer". She's hot, she kicks ass and she's awesome!! It's about the witness protection program and their agents.


Plus Mary McCormack (the star) is hot. Definitely a "Mrs. Nickdawg"!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864618
> 
> 
> Yes, they are new ones. I saw a commercial the other day. Ironically, I see the ads on Universal HD. Every time I watch that channel, I'm harassed by ads for shows on a channel I don't get: USA HD. AAAARRRRRGHH!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no, "it didn't get cancelled". It was one of cable's best new shows last summer. If you haven't watched it, DO IT NOW!! It is fantastic.
> 
> 
> Mary Shannon is like the "Anti-Closer". She's hot, she kicks ass and she's awesome!! It's about the witness protection program and their agents.
> 
> 
> Plus Mary McCormack (the star) is hot. Definitely a "Mrs. Nickdawg"!!



If it was on USA I probably have a Season Pass. I thought it was NBC. I'll double check it in April. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15864596
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if the Tudors are offered in HD via cable. There is a separate HD VOD service which costs extra, dunno if it would be on there. The Showtime VOD, through their own VOD ch and the Premium VOD ch, are all just digital cable. Like all of the movie ch's there is a single HD ch, a duplicate of their primary digital ch.
> 
> 
> I didn't get HD cable service till last summer (which is why I've had my OTA tuner) and was well after the season for the Tudors. It may well be offered on the Showtime HD ch, I'll let you know in April.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Premium VOD is just a duplicate of all of the subscription movie ch's, but in a one ch location for ease of use I guess.



Speaking og movie channels and HD, I have an idea I want to run past the "audience".


I hate that the only way to get an HD channel, like Starz HD, is to pay $12 a month for 8 or 10 channels I don't care for. The only channels I really would have an interest in are the HD versions of each premium service. So what I would like to see is an HD-only package that includes HBO HD, Showtime HD, Cinemax HD and Starx HD, for one price. This way you get more HD channels, less expense and a better selection of HD movies. Also, there are original series among these networks. I liked Dexter when it was on CBS last year, but I won't watch it on Showtime, since it would mean adding another huge expense ($12) on top of what I pay for HBO. Sorry Dexter, Bill Maher wins, everytime!










I don't like the current channels because one show may be on the main HD channel one day, then the same damn thing is on another flavor of that service the next day. So I have to watch repeats of something from HBO HD on HBO Comedy, or whatever.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864704
> 
> 
> Speaking og movie channels and HD, I have an idea I want to run past the "audience".
> 
> 
> I hate that the only way to get an HD channel, like Starz HD, is to pay $12 a month for 8 or 10 channels I don't care for. The only channels I really would have an interest in are the HD versions of each premium service. So what I would like to see is an HD-only package that includes HBO HD, Showtime HD, Cinemax HD and Starx HD, for one price. This way you get more HD channels, less expense and a better selection of HD movies. Also, there are original series among these networks. I liked Dexter when it was on CBS last year, but I won't watch it on Showtime, since it would mean adding another huge expense ($12) on top of what I pay for HBO. Sorry Dexter, Bill Maher wins, everytime!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like the current channels because one show may be on the main HD channel one day, then the same damn thing is on another flavor of that service the next day. So I have to watch repeats of something from HBO HD on HBO Comedy, or whatever.



Love the idea, but not likely. Anything *HD* is going to be sold as an added premium for the foreseeable future. So they will all want you to buy the HBO Pkg., then "add" the HBO HD feed for extra. I don't think al-a-carte will ever fly with cable or sat providers.


Why sell you HBO HD for $3 when they can sell you 8 HBO ch's and HBO HD for $12.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864106
> 
> 
> If you have Navigator, it should be on channel 516. Right now it has programming from CBS, some from NBC and some from F/X.



Nothing on 516 in Erie, PA. When was it added in Cleveland?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15864764
> 
> 
> Love the idea, but not likely. Anything *HD* is going to be sold as an added premium for the foreseeable future. So they will all want you to buy the HBO Pkg., then "add" the HBO HD feed for extra. I don't think al-a-carte will ever fly with cable or sat providers.
> 
> *Why sell you HBO HD for $3 when they can sell you 8 HBO ch's and HBO HD for $12.*



Make the "HDTV Tier: Part Two" cost $16 a month. That way they are selling you FOUR channels for 16 bucks!!! That's an even better inflated price than 8 channels for $12!!!

























> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15864806
> 
> 
> Nothing on 516 in Erie, PA. When was it added in Cleveland?



Do you have Navigator?


Do you have a cable box where the model number ends in "HDC"?

ex. 8300HDC, 4250HDC


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15864806
> 
> 
> Nothing on 516 in Erie, PA. When was it added in Cleveland?



nickdawg isn't in the Cleveland exAdelphia area. He is legacy TW, wherever that is.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864828
> 
> 
> Make the "HDTV Tier: Part Two" cost $16 a month. That way they are selling you FOUR channels for 16 bucks!!! That's an even better inflated price than 8 channels for $12!!!
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have Navigator?
> 
> 
> Do you have a cable box where the model number ends in "HDC"?
> 
> ex. 8300HDC, 4250HDC



I have Navigator and an 8300HDC box. I haven't checked on my other 8300HD box with the new Navigator. Why should it matter which box?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15864850
> 
> 
> I have Navigator and an 8300HDC box. I haven't checked on my other 8300HD box with the new Navigator. Why should it matter which box?



HDC boxes are crap. Navigator for OCAP sucks. OCAP in general is garbage. Those boxes are prone to scew ups and are usually behind the regular boxes. If you have both, you should be seeing a night and day difference between the two, especially the 8300HDC. It is the worst of the worst!


Like the other day when Chiller was added. My 8300HD got the channel in the morning. The 4250HDC didn't get it until that evening.


With Primetime OD, the 8300HD has had it since yesterday. Still not there on the 4250. I'm trying to reboot it now to 'help' it along. I'll let you know the results of that reboot in about 4 or 5 days when the boot cycle is complete.













































This is yet another problem that has not been fixed in almost two years. I had another HDC box(which I no longer have







) back in 2007 around the time TBS HD was added. My old Pioneer SD box(on Passport at the time) had the channel it could not process and display TWO DAYS before the HDC box had it.










Did I ever mention I hate OCAP?
























UPDATE: After the reboot, the channel shows up on 516. I guess this POS box did need to be 'helped'!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15864846
> 
> 
> nickdawg isn't in the Cleveland exAdelphia area. He is legacy TW, wherever that is.



I'll tell you where it is: an area larger than former Adelphia. Let's see: Akron, Canton, Kent, Youngstown, New Philadelphia, Erie. While they're not all legacy TWC, they all have Navigator. And that's just the areas we know about.


Sounds like it is time for some new HD SDV channels, you know, to better serve the MAJORITY of their customers!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864949
> 
> 
> I'll tell you where it is: an area larger than former Adelphia. Let's see: Akron, Canton, Kent, Youngstown, New Philadelphia, Erie. While they're not all legacy TWC, they all have Navigator. And that's just the areas we know about.
> 
> 
> Sounds like it is time for some new HD SDV channels, you know, to better serve the MAJORITY of their customers!



Parts of Kent are in ex Adelphia. And I believe Erie is ex Adelphia, they were running Passport over there. I could be wrong on that but that's what I remember. It doesn't make a difference that area is not as large population wise as ex Adelphia. Who ever told you Youngstown was legacy TW, I don't think so.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15865119
> 
> 
> Parts of Kent are in ex Adelphia. And I believe Erie is ex Adelphia, they were running Passport over there. I could be wrong on that but that's what I remember. It doesn't make a difference that area is not as large population wise as ex Adelphia. Who ever told you Youngstown was legacy TW, I don't think so.



Youngstown has the VOD channels on separate channels in the 500s. Ex-Adelphia areas not on Navigator use the VOD Portal channel on channel 1.

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf 


Still, that makes my case stronger. Even former Adelphia(maybe Comcast) have Navigator and SDV. It sounds like all Navigator areas have SDV. If Mr. JASS-HOLE doesn't want to lose his customers, it would be very wise of him to stop pissing on all the viewers who have SDV.


Who cares if Cleveland/suburban Cleveland has more people? It should go by areas that have more HD VIEWERS. It's pathetic we have to wait until the slums of east Cleveland can watch the HD channels too, even though there may be little or no HD viewers there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15865194
> 
> 
> Youngstown has the VOD channels on separate channels in the 500s. Ex-Adelphia areas not on Navigator use the VOD Portal channel on channel 1.
> 
> http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf
> 
> 
> Still, that makes my case stronger. Even former Adelphia(maybe Comcast) have Navigator and SDV. It sounds like all Navigator areas have SDV. If Mr. JASS-HOLE doesn't want to lose his customers, it would be very wise of him to stop pissing on all the viewers who have SDV.
> 
> 
> Who cares if Cleveland/suburban Cleveland has more people? It should go by areas that have more HD VIEWERS. It's pathetic we have to wait until the slums of east Cleveland can watch the HD channels too, even though there may be little or no HD viewers there.



If they are using Navigator of course. That doesn't mean they were part of TW Legacy.


I believe all the areas you describe in the South like New Philadelphia, but you're wrong about the Eastern areas.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15865271
> 
> 
> If they are using Navigator of course. That doesn't mean they were part of TW Legacy.
> 
> 
> I believe all the areas you describe in the South like New Philadelphia, but you're wrong about the Eastern areas.



Look at the expanded basic lineup of Youngstown. Everything from 19 to 99 is identical to Akron, Canton, Kent, etc. Anywhere that had that lineup is ex-TWC. Unlike Adelphia, TWC had a consistent lineup, other than the 2-18 channels.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15864911
> 
> 
> HDC boxes are crap. Navigator for OCAP sucks. OCAP in general is garbage. Those boxes are prone to scew ups and are usually behind the regular boxes. If you have both, you should be seeing a night and day difference between the two, especially the 8300HDC. It is the worst of the worst!
> 
> 
> Like the other day when Chiller was added. My 8300HD got the channel in the morning. The 4250HDC didn't get it until that evening.
> 
> 
> With Primetime OD, the 8300HD has had it since yesterday. Still not there on the 4250. I'm trying to reboot it now to 'help' it along. I'll let you know the results of that reboot in about 4 or 5 days when the boot cycle is complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is yet another problem that has not been fixed in almost two years. I had another HDC box(which I no longer have
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) back in 2007 around the time TBS HD was added. My old Pioneer SD box(on Passport at the time) had the channel it could not process and display TWO DAYS before the HDC box had it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did I ever mention I hate OCAP?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: After the reboot, the channel shows up on 516. I guess this POS box did need to be 'helped'!



I don't have it on either box on 516 so far. Typically in our area the new channels do show up on both boxes at the same time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15865435
> 
> 
> I don't have it on either box on 516 so far. Typically in our area the new channels do show up on both boxes at the same time.




Are you exAdelphia?


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15865520
> 
> 
> Are you exAdelphia?



Sure are.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15866025
> 
> 
> Sure are.



See nickdawg! I told you so. TW has a small area of legacy in the South. The majority area is ADELPHIA. And as I told you they had many different systems. That's why there was passport on some of the old systems. And those passport systems are now navigator. They must not be able to convert SARA.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15864806
> 
> 
> Nothing on 516 in Erie, PA. When was it added in Cleveland?



I don't think those 500-series channels have been added yet in the former Adelphia areas (including Cleveland - nickdawg is on the legacy Akron system).


I just found Primetime on Demand the old way, via the On Demand portal on channel 1.


----------



## Inundated

OK, near as I can figure:


"Legacy" TWC (pre-merger): Akron, Canton, Warren, Youngstown, Erie (city system only)


Ex-Adelphia: Cleveland/suburbs, western Summit County (Copley/Bath/Richfield/former Northampton Twp.), northern Summit County (Macedonia/Hudson/etc.), Dover/New Philadelphia, Erie (county system only)


Ex-Comcast: Elyria, Mentor


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15867946
> 
> 
> I don't think those 500-series channels have been added yet in the former Adelphia areas (including Cleveland - nickdawg is on the legacy Akron system).
> 
> 
> I just found Primetime on Demand the old way, via the On Demand portal on channel 1.



We don't have Channel 1 either?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15867955
> 
> 
> OK, near as I can figure:
> 
> 
> "Legacy" TWC (pre-merger): Akron, Canton, Warren, Youngstown, Erie (city system only)
> 
> 
> Ex-Adelphia: Cleveland/suburbs, western Summit County (Copley/Bath/Richfield/former Northampton Twp.), northern Summit County (Macedonia/Hudson/etc.), Dover/New Philadelphia, Erie (county system only)
> 
> 
> Ex-Comcast: Elyria, Mentor



Yeah, that's what I kind of thought too but I thought New Philadelphia was a bit closer to the South.


Anyway the point is that TW "legacy" is no where near population wise the size of exAdelphia which is exactly why they are holding up on their HD delivery. And I'll bet this next addition of TW HD will not be on SDV either - If it actually gets here by 4/1.


----------



## hookbill

*On, or after, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.*


5 HD channels in all. Current system can handle that, no SDV required. And Palladia HD. What is this, Los Angeles? I can see adding it if we had a high Latino population. If they are so interested in serving minority or people of color why not BETHD? Blacks far outnumber Latinos in this area. And Disney HD. I suppose that's not too bad but I'd have preferred FXHD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15868111
> 
> 
> We don't have Channel 1 either?



Where do you get On Demand?


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15865435
> 
> 
> I don't have it on either box on 516 so far. Typically in our area the new channels do show up on both boxes at the same time.



This might apply to you. It's from the TWC website.


Effective on, or after, March 1, 2009, the following services will be added to the Digital line-up as separate On Demand channels in the former Adelphia service area;


Video On Demand Information, HD Showcase On Demand, Local On Demand, Kent State On Demand, Kids On Demand-Preschool, Kids On Demand, Sportskool On Demand, Exercise On Demand, Sports On Demand, Entertainment On Demand, Lifestyle On Demand, News & World On Demand, Cutting Edge On Demand, Primetime On Demand, Music On Demand, TV Guide Network On Demand, Free Movies On Demand, A&E/Biography On Demand, Oxygen On Demand, BBC America On Demand, LifeSkool On Demand, Big Ten Network On Demand SportsTime Ohio On Demand, Big Ten Network On Demand HD, HD Showcase, HD Movies On Demand, Movies On Demand Espanol, International Movies On Demand, Outrageous On Demand, Events On Demand, Movies On Demand Previews, Movies On Demand, Free Movies On Demand, Virtual Video Store Kids, Virtual Video Store Classics, Virtual Video Store Action, Virtual Video Store Comedy, Virtual Video Store Drama, Virtual Video Store Thrillers, Automotive On Demand, Find It On Demand, Movie Trailers On Demand, My Life On Demand, Journey TV On Demand, Spice On Demand, Erotic On Demand, Movies On Demand HD, Movie Feature Channels 1 through 10, HD Movies On Demand, Adult On Demand, Playboy On Demand, Adult On Demand HD, Here TV On Demand, Too Much For TV On Demand, Howard TV On Demand, PhotoShow TV, HBO ON Demand, Cinemax On Demand, Showtime On Demand, TMC On Demand, Starz! On Demand, Events On Demand, Disney On Demand,


----------



## nickdawg

Hey Hookbill, do you like F/X?


Would you like F/X in HDTV?


Guess what TWC added!!

















On HD Showcase on Demand, there is now a category for F/X. Currently two episodes of Nip/Tuck are available and two movies. I hope TWC continues adding series to this category. Looks like viewing of Rescue Me just got a huge upgrade.


Thanks to TWC and Scientific Atlanta!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15868965
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, do you like F/X?
> 
> 
> Would you like F/X in HDTV?
> 
> 
> Guess what TWC added!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On HD Showcase on Demand, there is now a category for F/X. Currently two episodes of Nip/Tuck are available and two movies. I hope TWC continues adding series to this category. Looks like viewing of Rescue Me just got a huge upgrade.
> 
> 
> Thanks to TWC and Scientific Atlanta!



WTF, they will show it OD but not regular!


Are they old episodes or current. Since it just started recently I imagine this year.


Just to pick on you it's FX, not F/X you've got Nip/Tuck on the brain.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15862130
> 
> 
> I'm not sure because really I'm not an On Demand person, the wife is. I brought her to it and showed her how it works. I think the way it works now is you go to channel 1 and you access everything from there. I know The Reality Channel is one of them, and there is a bunch more but sorry, I can't tell you exactly what they all are. And since I'm a TiVo person my box doesn't access On Demand, which to me is no lost since I don't use it anyway.



Nick, I was going through the lineup the other day and there were a lot of new On-Demands in the 500's. TW has been advertising to go to channel 1 or channel 555 for VOD. Both work for me (in Solon - I believe Hook and I are on the same system).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15869046
> 
> 
> Nick, I was going through the lineup the other day and there were a lot of new On-Demands in the 500's. TW has been advertising to go to channel 1 or channel 555 for VOD. Both work for me (in Solon - I believe Hook and I are on the same system).



Yep, but I would have to use my other HD television to watch them and quite honestly I got back dated episodes to catch up on. Where my wife's tv is located at is more of a "casual glancing" as opposed to serious watching area. That's why I stuck her with that mickey mouse SARA box.


She asked me for a DVR once and I said hell no.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15869040
> 
> 
> WTF, they will show it OD but not regular!
> 
> 
> Are they old episodes or current. Since it just started recently I imagine this year.
> 
> 
> Just to pick on you it's FX, not F/X you've got Nip/Tuck on the brain.



I feel like TWC *almost* listened to me last month. We wanted USA, SCIFI and Discovery-and we're getting them. We wanted F/X too, but for whatever reason it's not being added. But at least it's On Demand.


I'm sure F/X or FX has more HD content than Disney







, and definitely has more meaningful content than Palladia(which is a music channel).


I haven't watched the current season, as I die a little inside every time I see the horrible PQ on those channels.














But they appear to be the last two episodes. That's how all the On Demand channels recently added work. I hope they do the same with Rescue Me.


I _almost_ feel sorry for calling him Mr. Jass-hole. Almost!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15869046
> 
> 
> Nick, I was going through the lineup the other day and there were a lot of new On-Demands in the 500's. TW has been advertising to go to channel 1 or channel 555 for VOD. Both work for me (in Solon - I believe Hook and I are on the same system).



That's good news. Once that change is complete, it sounds like you guys are at the top of the list for the upgrades. Maybe you'll get SDV first too.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15869113
> 
> 
> Yep, but I would have to use my other HD television to watch them and quite honestly I got back dated episodes to catch up on. Where my wife's tv is located at is more of a "casual glancing" as opposed to serious watching area. That's why I stuck her with that mickey mouse SARA box.
> 
> 
> She asked me for a DVR once and I said hell no.



I was thinking wifey would be getting a Tivo for her TV!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15869194
> 
> 
> That's good news. Once that change is complete, it sounds like you guys are at the top of the list for the upgrades. Maybe you'll get SDV first too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking wifey would be getting a Tivo for her TV!



Hey man, I love TiVo but I'm not rich!


I just reminded her about the problems and the interface and she said, "Oh yeah, forget it."


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15869194
> 
> 
> That's good news. Once that change is complete, it sounds like you guys are at the top of the list for the upgrades. Maybe you'll get SDV first too.



I wouldn't bet money on it!


I'd probably check VOD more often if its interface wasn't so hokey...It seems to take forever to load and the nested menu system is terrible. Definately not "wife friendly!" Of course, that's SARA that we have here. Maybe Navigator is better?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15870617
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bet money on it!
> 
> 
> I'd probably check VOD more often if its interface wasn't so hokey...It seems to take forever to load and the nested menu system is terrible. Definately not "wife friendly!" Of course, that's SARA that we have here. Maybe Navigator is better?



VOD can be *quirky* on my WOW Cable system. Sometimes it loads immediately, sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so. On a few occasions it won't load at all saying "sorry, service not available at this time, please try your selection later........". I'm guessing that particular VOD stream is temporarily in high demand and the system can't handle that many VOD requests. Just a guess.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15870617
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bet money on it!
> 
> 
> I'd probably check VOD more often if its interface wasn't so hokey...It seems to take forever to load and the nested menu system is terrible. Definately not "wife friendly!" Of course, that's SARA that we have here. Maybe Navigator is better?



Yeah, SARA sucks and Navigator isn't much better from nickdawgs description. I still think they are planning on making everyone Navigator in order to bring everything together, but I think there is a problem changing SARA to Navigator. SARA on it's own is perfectly capable of doing SDV, but who knows if Passport was? Why did they change from Passport to Navigator? Everyone seems to hate it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15870711
> 
> 
> VOD can be *quirky* on my WOW Cable system. Sometimes it loads immediately, sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so. On a few occasions it won't load at all saying "sorry, service not available at this time, please try your selection later........". I'm guessing that particular VOD stream is temporarily in high demand and the system can't handle that many VOD requests. Just a guess.



I'll bet that depends on how busy the system is. I've seen it before and it can be agonizingly slow.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15869552
> 
> 
> Hey man, I love TiVo but I'm not rich!
> 
> 
> I just reminded her about the problems and the interface and she said, "Oh yeah, forget it."





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15870617
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bet money on it!
> 
> 
> No, I meant you'd be dumping the Tivo on the wife in favor of the SA box that gets VOD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd probably check VOD more often if its interface wasn't so hokey...It seems to take forever to load and the nested menu system is terrible. Definately not "wife friendly!" Of course, that's SARA that we have here. Maybe Navigator is better?



It depends. MDN on the 8300HD works almost flawlessly. Only once or twice does an error message come up. Last time that happened, I fixed it by changing the channel and changing right back. ODN on the 4250HD is hit or miss. Sometimes the lists doesn't update when channels are added. The ODN interface in general is slower and clunkier than MDN. I'd even say Navigator for OCAP(ODN) is worse than SARA and Passport.


I think it will get better when everything is not on one single channel anymore. When it's broken down by themes, it's easier to find shows.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15870725
> 
> 
> Yeah, SARA sucks and Navigator isn't much better from nickdawgs description. I still think they are planning on making everyone Navigator in order to bring everything together, but I think there is a problem changing SARA to Navigator. SARA on it's own is perfectly capable of doing SDV, but who knows if Passport was? Why did they change from Passport to Navigator? Everyone seems to hate it.



Passport was dumped because of SDV. TWC just doesn't want to use it anymore for whatever reasons. I still think Navigator is a mistake, especially on OCAP boxes, where it sucks. They could have easily switched all the Passport boxes to SARA. But no, they want their own thing, for other crap like Start Over.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15871522
> 
> 
> Passport was dumped because of SDV. TWC just doesn't want to use it anymore for whatever reasons. I still think Navigator is a mistake, especially on OCAP boxes, where it sucks. They could have easily switched all the Passport boxes to SARA. But no, they want their own thing, for other crap like Start Over.



I don't know,nickdawg. I kind of think that SA had a say in all this because it's not just TW it seems that everyone with a SA box and SDV have Navigator.


----------



## gforaker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15871522
> 
> 
> 
> Passport was dumped because of SDV. TWC just doesn't want to use it anymore for whatever reasons. I still think Navigator is a mistake, especially on OCAP boxes, where it sucks. They could have easily switched all the Passport boxes to SARA. But no, they want their own thing, for other crap like Start Over.




That may have been part of the reason, but Passport could have been patched. The real reason is that TWC did not write Passport and had to pay royalties for it to another company. They own Navigator and pay no royalties. It is always about the money.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gforaker* /forum/post/15873463
> 
> 
> That may have been part of the reason, but Passport could have been patched. The real reason is that TWC did not write Passport and had to pay royalties for it to another company. They own Navigator and pay no royalties. It is always about the money.



Well not only that, but for a number of other reasons. They weren't the only cableco running Passport. Anytime they wanted changes they had to wait in line for Pioneer/Aptiv to work on them and release them. And then of course there's the money aspect. With Navigator, TWC has full control over it and also something to differentiate themselves with competitors.


Both Passport and SARA have been capable of SDV. But the issues stated above are the exact reason why TWC wants to make the switch to Navigator since it will put them in 100% control of their systems. The set-top software and interface is and will become a large factor in the cable tv experience over time and TWC is making sure they can hit the ground running so-to-speak with Navigator.


And I dunno why you keep saying, hookbill, that a SARA to Navigator switch is impossible. Then why do I see that particular application sitting on my box here? Would be kinda stupid just to be there to look pretty and not have something in mind for it. My guess is they are working out the kinks and bugs involved with getting the SARA equipment seamlessly converted to Navigator. You have to remember that they also have to get the user data written to the box by SARA like season recording info, channel favorites, upcoming recordings, etc. converted over into data that Navigator can read or in some way program Navigator to be able to read it. They can't just say 'Oh well. Wipe it. Start fresh. Live with it.'


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15873608
> 
> 
> And I dunno why you keep saying, hookbill, that a SARA to Navigator switch is impossible. Then why do I see that particular application sitting on my box here? Would be kinda stupid just to be there to look pretty and not have something in mind for it. My guess is they are working out the kinks and bugs involved with getting the SARA equipment seamlessly converted to Navigator. You have to remember that they also have to get the user data written to the box by SARA like season recording info, channel favorites, upcoming recordings, etc. converted over into data that Navigator can read or in some way program Navigator to be able to read it. They can't just say 'Oh well. Wipe it. Start fresh. Live with it.'



I was under the impression that you were in TW Native and I understand about the statement in your box, but I am telling you that did not occure due to a switch. You yourself said it's been Navigator since day one. I stand by what I said.


Fine me an example, anywhere of somebody who HAD SARA (you didn't) and had it switched over. You never saw SARA on your system since day 1.


----------



## Vchat20

That is true, but still the case is WHY would it be there then? Obviously TWC has something in mind with it or else it wouldn't be there. See what I'm driving at here?


Considering how many customers TWC has in the ex-Adelphia/Comcast areas and then the large majority there still running on SARA afaik, it'd be really stupid to try and do door-to-door box swapouts with new OCAP boxes. Add in the fact that they ARE going to move every single person to Navigator as that has been their plan all along. Case-in-point they are gonna have to find some way to switch SARA boxes seamlessly to Navigator without a swapout and I think that is exactly what they are working on. Granted it may only be in employee testing at this point in time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15873825
> 
> 
> That is true, but still the case is WHY would it be there then? Obviously TWC has something in mind with it or else it wouldn't be there. See what I'm driving at here?
> 
> 
> Considering how many customers TWC has in the ex-Adelphia/Comcast areas and then the large majority there still running on SARA afaik, it'd be really stupid to try and do door-to-door box swapouts with new OCAP boxes. Add in the fact that they ARE going to move every single person to Navigator as that has been their plan all along. Case-in-point they are gonna have to find some way to switch SARA boxes seamlessly to Navigator without a swapout and I think that is exactly what they are working on. Granted it may only be in employee testing at this point in time.



Everything you say makes perfect sense. I think the problem is with existing SA 8300's that do not have that ability.


Now the 42500 may be capable, that came later. I don't know. But as you say they can't switch everybody out.


I think the comment made previously about money and Navigator is extremely interesting. If TW owns Navigator software then yes they would absolutely want a total switch. My argument is: If it's that easy to do, why haven't they done it. I point out to you Jascoe's statement about incompatible systems. IMHO, and that's key, I think it's a problem with SARA.


Now if I'm correct or not I don't know. My headend person doesn't seem to know the TW plan and she flat out states SARA can do SDV. Yet they have done no testing that I can see and they have not activated SDV in ex Adelphia area.


I could be flat out wrong on all of this, I'm speculating. It is interesting that your SA 8300 *HDC* has the statement you found. But it really doesn't mean that they can just switch it over that easy.


I'll ask my headend person on Monday. Hopefully she will give me a direct answer, the question will be "Can SARA be switched out to Navigator?"


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15855880
> 
> 
> Any TiVo people out there getting this? My headend person says she was able to get it on their TiVo but I seem to be having issues. One of my TiVo's acknowledges the existance of the channel, the other is not even seeing it. I've done guided set ups but that didn't help. My headend person is still working on it, probably something in the stream again.
> 
> 
> If I never get it doesn't matter. I'll never look at it anyway.




I don't get it either even re-ran guided setup. Don't care about this channel but I will complain about it so when those other channels (HD) come in that I will care about it might get straightened out a little sooner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/15874335
> 
> 
> I don't get it either even re-ran guided setup. Don't care about this channel but I will complain about it so when those other channels (HD) come in that I will care about it might get straightened out a little sooner.



Thanks. I will let her know another tivo person can't receive it either.


----------



## Bismarck440

What's up with that?


Sorry to inturupt Pay TV & Cable Chat!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15874419
> 
> 
> What's up with that?
> 
> 
> Sorry to inturupt Pay TV & Cable Chat!



Hey. We like you OTA people. Place wouldn't be the same without you.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15874477
> 
> 
> Hey. We like you OTA people. Place wouldn't be the same without you.



Aww, what about OTA people from hundreds of miles away?










- Trip


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15874477
> 
> 
> Hey. We like you OTA people. Place wouldn't be the same without you.



YTY,







I'd answer my own questions but 43's website won't light up on my dialup this evening!


Just a blank screen, with a new logo on 43-2 for THIS!


Columbus gets Retro TV on their subs & all we get is another year of the E-Check Program!










From OMW....


Cleveland TV station has ended the longest-running video slide apologizing for missing programming in TV history.


When "The Tube Music Network" shut down operations on October 1, 2007, Raycom Media's WUAB/43 in the Cleveland market put up an electronic slide on digital subchannel 43.2 - telling viewers that the network had been pulled off the air, and asking them to refrain from calling either the station or their local cable operator.


That slide appeared on WUAB-DT/43.2 for over a year and four months, until finally coming down this week.


In its place is a new banner - with the legend "This Cleveland".


"This", as reported here earlier, is "This TV" - the MGM-backed programming service that is coming to WUAB and other Raycom stations soon in a nationwide deal between the "diginet" channel and the Alabama-based owner of WUAB and CBS affiliate WOIO/19.


No, we don't know when the subchannel will light up with actual programming, but we'd put a bet on it happening fairly soon.


What will you see on "This TV"? The channel is mainly programmed with MGM-owned movies of some vintage, along with a couple of sitcoms (we recall seeing "Mr. Ed" on the schedule).


We haven't broken out the "MGM Movie List", but we suspect you'll see the studio's movies with rights that haven't previously been sold to another broadcaster or cable/satellite outlet. Any "big name" MGM movies are probably in someone else's library.


But it's another "different" programming choice for area digital TV viewers.


We don't know for sure, but we suspect that sometime after "This TV" lights up on 43.2, it'll show up somewhere in the Time Warner Cable digital cable lineup...probably up there around where WOIO's "WeatherNow" is in the 370s.


We seem to recall that TWC did indeed carry "The Tube", but at some point decided it didn't want to waste even digital cable bandwidth for a message that the service had ended...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15874484
> 
> 
> Aww, what about OTA people from hundreds of miles away?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Trip, I like anybody who takes a shot at nickdawg.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15874531
> 
> 
> Trip, I like anybody who takes a shot at nickdawg.



Went back a few pages I was surprised that Trip hadn't already posted this, but I could be wrong, I thought the Tube still had their slide on yesterday.


Now where is Retro TV??


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15874576
> 
> 
> Went back a few pages I was surprised that Trip hadn't already posted this, but I could be wrong, I thought the Tube still had their slide on yesterday.



I actually didn't know. I figured there'd be posts here when it showed up.










EDIT: Unless you meant I didn't post that it'd be on at all. Which I thought someone else had, or I had, or there was otherwise information on it somewhere around here. I knew it was coming, didn't know there was a slide up.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15874576
> 
> 
> Went back a few pages I was surprised that Trip hadn't already posted this, but I could be wrong, I thought the Tube still had their slide on yesterday.
> 
> 
> Now where is Retro TV??



You know I remember hearing something about this tv or something like that a few days ago. Don't know who was talking about it. I may have read it on OMW.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15873608
> 
> 
> They can't just say 'Oh well. Wipe it. Start fresh. Live with it.'


OH YES THEY CAN!!


If that is what's standing in the way of more HD channels, then I want to meet TWC in a dark alley!
























When we got the Navigator, they gave the disclaimer legal notice that you ***MAY*** lose your settings and recordings. I didn't lose any recordings, but some people may have lost it.


BFD = Big F**king Deal.


Is it the end of the world to lose your DVR shows? No. You'll live. And when I hear s**t like favorite channels, I really say BFD.


----------



## Vchat20

Then if TWC took your advice and actually did start with a clean slate, I'm sure a large majority of the NEO customer base would love to meet YOU in a dark alley.










Fact is, it's technology. There are always problems whether they are critical or just tiny bugs. It's why they have disclaimers like that. But it doesn't mean they aren't attempting to make it a clean transition with everything intact. They just can't account for EVERY possible scenario. Ever beta tested software before? Bingo. But in TWC's case, they can only do very limited beta tests through employees and hope for the best after that.


Now if you would quit reading between the lines and taking things out of context, I said this is one of MANY reasons that is holding them back from moving things forward. Retaining customer data is just a small factor in many that is preventing them from moving SARA equipment to Navigator and then you have the situation of getting the cable plants in check, headends matched up, etc..


Nickdawg: They are working on it. Give them time for chrissakes. Rome wasn't built in a day you know?


----------



## hookbill

You know nickdawg I like you. I enjoy our banter but when you make comments like that it makes you look selfish. I don't think you really are that way. I think you let your emotions get out.


I understand how you feel but your just going to have to wait. It will happen. Hey we are going to have some cool HDchannels soon. The SDV thing may take a bit.


Fell sounds about right.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15875586
> 
> 
> You know nickdawg I like you. I enjoy our banter but when you make comments like that it makes you look selfish. I don't think you really are that way. I think you let your emotions get out.
> 
> 
> I understand how you feel but your just going to have to wait. It will happen. Hey we are going to have some cool HDchannels soon. The SDV thing may take a bit.
> 
> 
> Fell sounds about right.



Oh yeah, I'm "selfish" because I don't give a rat's ass about favorite channel settings. Like it is so f**king hard to reprogram that!
























Like I said, when they did it here, they told us ahead of time to save anything you want from DVR to VHS. If the only way I could get more HD channels was to nuke every recording on my DVR, I'd push the button, pull the plug, flip the switch myself. It is a small, tiny, meaningless price to pay for something better.


And I'm insulted that comment is coming from you of all people. The self-proclaimed "8300 hater". You of all people should be at the head of the line to nuke those boxes. "Shoulda had a Tivo"






































"Cool HD channels"? Oh yeah, I'm gonna have warm fuzzy thoughts about the JASS-HOLE when I'm watching Disney and Palladia in HD. Yippee!!!!


Maybe Hanna Montana will be , like, in HD!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15875529
> 
> 
> 
> Nickdawg: They are working on it. Give them time for chrissakes. Rome wasn't built in a day you know?



"give them time"? I've given them time. They've had total control over NE Ohio for almost THREE YEARS now. There's no excuse it took until 2008 to standardize the channel lineup. That should have been accomplished in early 2007.


Then, around the fall of 2007 when D* began lighting up 4 or 5 HD channels a week, the ground work for SDV should have began. Navigator should have been implemented in late 2007/earlier 2008. SDV should have began in the Navigator areas in early 2008. SARA customers hould have had their boxes totally nuked and replaced with Navigator in summer 2008. SDV in ex-Adelphia areas by fall 2008. Early 2009: Deployment of 25 new HD channels in NE Ohio, across all systems.


See, that's the problem. Like any big coroporation, there's too much bureaucracy and horses..t behind the scenes. That's why things suck. And on top of that, we have people like the *JASS-HOLE* who want to please all of the people all of the time, even if it means pissing off people in the process. What a Bass-Ackwards philosophy.


TWC should merge with Congress, both want to bend over backwards to cater to the lowest of the low. Doesn't matter what you do, 100% of the people will never be ready for any change.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15875709
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, I'm "selfish" because I don't give a rat's ass about favorite channel settings. Like it is so f**king hard to reprogram that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SLike I said, when they did it here, they told us ahead of time to save anything you want from DVR to VHS. If the only way I could get more HD channels was to nuke every recording on my DVR, I'd push the button, pull the plug, flip the switch myself. It is a small, tiny, meaningless price to pay for something better.
> 
> 
> And I'm insulted that comment is coming from you of all people. The self-proclaimed "8300 hater". You of all people should be at the head of the line to nuke those boxes. "Shoulda had a Tivo"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Cool HD channels"? Oh yeah, I'm gonna have warm fuzzy thoughts about the JASS-HOLE when I'm watching Disney and Palladia in HD. Yippee!!!!
> 
> 
> Maybe Hanna Montana will be , like, in HD!



I apologize. I tried my best to word that so you did not feel that way.


I am talking about people loosing up to a month of programs. Favorites? I agree that is unimportant.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15875804
> 
> 
> I am talking about people loosing up to a month of programs. Favorites? I agree that is unimportant.



Exactly. Hence my 'reading between the lines'/'taking things out of context' comment.


Yeah. Favorite channels? Meh. Set recordings and series recordings? Not detrimental. But the actual recorded programming already on the box? Losing that is not gonna fly. #1: With the capacities of these boxes, your talking a large number of VHS tapes and a LONG wait time for it all to record and manpower at that. Not even to mention HD recordings which are stuck on the box no matter what attempt you make.


But like stated: This is exactly what TWC is trying to take care of is getting this stuff seamlessly transferred. But with any large profile company, they have to cover their ass.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15875804
> 
> 
> I apologize. I tried my best to word that so you did not feel that way.
> 
> 
> I am talking about people loosing up to a month of programs. Favorites? I agree that is unimportant.



I see. But it seems odd you took that position. See, maybe it's not "always nickdawg" starting the commotion.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15875818
> 
> 
> Exactly. Hence my 'reading between the lines'/'taking things out of context' comment.
> 
> 
> Yeah. Favorite channels? Meh. Set recordings and series recordings? Not detrimental. But the actual recorded programming already on the box? Losing that is not gonna fly. #1: With the capacities of these boxes, your talking a large number of VHS tapes and a LONG wait time for it all to record and manpower at that. Not even to mention HD recordings which are stuck on the box no matter what attempt you make.
> 
> 
> But like stated: This is exactly what TWC is trying to take care of is getting this stuff seamlessly transferred. But with any large profile company, they have to cover their ass.


THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS!


I have two HD movies as well as the last three episodes of "In Plain Sight" from USA HD last August still saved. If I had to permanently lose those shows forever in order to get new HD channels, it would be no contest. I'd manually delete the shows myself it they asked me to!


If this is the true issue, I think it is a sad, sad, sad social commentary about the state of America that people are chained by the ankles to their TV. Sure, I like my shows, but I'm not gonna start a war over losing a few recordings.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15874656
> 
> 
> I actually didn't know. I figured there'd be posts here when it showed up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Unless you meant I didn't post that it'd be on at all. Which I thought someone else had, or I had, or there was otherwise information on it somewhere around here. I knew it was coming, didn't know there was a slide up.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Ah Trip these threads go so fast with Cable banter,







I only looked as far back as Thursday morning, As stated in the OMW article that I'm getting the banner with no activity. Must be something new since unknown what the content is. You mean we are getting something that Columbus & Cincy don't already have?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15876058
> 
> 
> Ah Trip these threads go so fast with Cable banter,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only looked as far back as Thursday morning, As stated in the OMW article that I'm getting the banner with no activity. Must be something new since unknown what the content is. You mean we are getting something that Columbus & Cincy don't already have?



Cinci already has This via WXIX-DT 19-2.


But Columbus doesn't have it yet.










- Trip


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15870711
> 
> 
> VOD can be *quirky* on my WOW Cable system. Sometimes it loads immediately, sometimes it takes 30 seconds or so. On a few occasions it won't load at all saying "sorry, service not available at this time, please try your selection later........". I'm guessing that particular VOD stream is temporarily in high demand and the system can't handle that many VOD requests. Just a guess.



I'm thinking there's something more on a lower level with VOD than just the viewer load. A month or two ago, I tried over several hours to start a VOD of Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and kept getting the "service not available" message. Pretty sure this movie wasn't in high demand... Other VOD attempts also failed. Restarting the box didn't help. A day or two later, it came up lightning-quick.


mike


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15876331
> 
> 
> I'm thinking there's something more on a lower level with VOD than just the viewer load. A month or two ago, I tried over several hours to start a VOD of Fast Times at Ridgemont High, and kept getting the "service not available" message. Pretty sure this movie wasn't in high demand... Other VOD attempts also failed. Restarting the box didn't help. A day or two later, it came up lightning-quick.
> 
> 
> mike



Quite possible. Maybe the entire VOD system or that VOD assigned ch was over loaded with requests.










But it sure is nice the 90% of the time it works.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15874419
> 
> 
> What's up with that?
> 
> 
> Sorry to inturupt Pay TV & Cable Chat!



Don't kid yourself, we all *pay* for OTA. Oh god do we PAY!


----------



## Vchat20

The way the VOD system works is there are a limited selection of QAM frequencies delegated to the VOD channels per node (or individual headend. I forget.). Now those QAM's are much less in count than the available VOD channels given. Much like SDV, it relies on the fact that not everyone is going to be watching every known channel simultaneously. The primary difference between SDV and VOD though is there is only one allowed viewer per running VOD feed. And while not related to the subject, VOD acts just as if they had a VHS deck at the headend feeding to you through the cable system and your remote had a direct line back to control the tape playback. Pretty much all it is, but in digital and with a specialized VOD playback server.


Long story made short, accessibility depends completely on how many in your are are viewing other VOD programming at that moment. If all those QAM's are full, you get the equivalent of an access denied message until a slot opens up.


----------



## hookbill

I think that 43-2 providing a unique channel, kind of like cables TV Land is exactly what they should use the sub stations for, create more channels like on cable. While I'm not a big fan of "retro" television, many are. I'll look forward to seeing on how this devlops.


And OK, Bismark. One shot off the bow on the cable talk is cool. Two is tolerable. But a third and you may be starting another OTA vs Cable war.


Anyone notice that satellite people never cause any trouble?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15876104
> 
> 
> Cinci already has This via WXIX-DT 19-2.
> 
> 
> But Columbus doesn't have it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



Are you saying "This TV" is live on the air on WXIX-DT2, or just a slide like WUAB?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15877042
> 
> 
> Are you saying "This TV" is live on the air on WXIX-DT2, or just a slide like WUAB?



It's live on the air.


- Trip


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/15877042
> 
> 
> Are you saying "This TV" is live on the air on WXIX-DT2, or just a slide like WUAB?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15877121
> 
> 
> It's live on the air.
> 
> 
> - Trip



As of 11am, I'm not seeing any programming, just an orange bar across the bottom of the screen with the "This TV" logo and WUAB 43.2. The rest of the screen is black. Were they running some programming earlier?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15877443
> 
> 
> As of 11am, I'm not seeing any programming, just an orange bar across the bottom of the screen with the "This TV" logo and WUAB 43.2. The rest of the screen is black. Were they running some programming earlier?



Reread what I was responding to. WXIX is running This, WUAB is still on the slide.










- Trip


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15877484
> 
> 
> Reread what I was responding to. WXIX is running This, WUAB is still on the slide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15875843
> 
> 
> I see. But it seems odd you took that position. See, maybe it's not "always nickdawg" starting the commotion.



In the words of Richard Nixon







"Let me be perfectly clear." It's a lot easier to explain when I'm typing on a computer as opposed to my blackberry.


I'm not defending the SA 8300, and quite honestly I'd be surprised if that thing could record a months worth of programming successfully (that's with a 1 month lag time). I'm saying that if I lost my recordings of all my shows I made and I had one of those so called DVR's, I'd be pretty darn upset.


Now Vchat mentioned transfer to VHS, but the reality is you can transfer to a recordable DVD, although the pq will look like crap and your chance of a true successful transfer is 50/50. I did this whenever I took an SA 8300 back (3 times, remember)







and I found out that sometimes in the middle of the show the voice track went to what I had on live television for no reason.


In this case I just don't think "the end justify's the means" and I say the only reason you feel that way is because you do not record the majority of your programs, just ones where there are conflicts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15877484
> 
> 
> Reread what I was responding to. WXIX is running This, WUAB is still on the slide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



I thought we were talking about 43.2. Isn't that WBNX?


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15877556
> 
> 
> I thought we were talking about 43.2. Isn't that WBNX?



I was talking about WUAB 43.2. Trip was talking about WXIX (in his area) which is also getting This TV. WBNX is 55.1.


... I think.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15877857
> 
> 
> I was talking about WUAB 43.2. Trip was talking about WXIX (in his area) which is also getting This TV. WBNX is 55.1.
> 
> 
> ... I think.



WXIX isn't in my area, but the rest of that sentence is right.










- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/15877857
> 
> 
> I was talking about WUAB 43.2. Trip was talking about WXIX (in his area) which is also getting This TV. WBNX is 55.1.
> 
> 
> ... I think.



I meant WUAB. It was some station that began with a "W".


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *beaver2672* /forum/post/13984262
> 
> 
> Last night Armstrong in Medina added HGTV-HD and Food-HD to the HD lineup. This brings the total number up to 39 HD channels. All we need is Weather and Speed and I'll be happy!



Well, you finally got your wish. Your post was from 5/31/08, but last night I noticed that Armstrong added Speed-HD.


And the hits keep on coming!


Speaking of coming, the only one I'm jonesing for now is Big-10! I wish they could just come to an agreement on that one. Anybody know if Big-10 is still holding their draconian demands over carriers' heads? I thought it might stop once Comcast came to an agreement with them last year, and it sounded like there were some compromises made.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15878982
> 
> 
> Well, you finally got your wish. Your post was from 5/31/08, but last night I noticed that Armstrong added Speed-HD.
> 
> 
> And the hits keep on coming!
> 
> 
> Speaking of coming, the only one I'm jonesing for now is Big-10! I wish they could just come to an agreement on that one. Anybody know if Big-10 is still holding their draconian demands over carriers' heads? I thought it might stop once Comcast came to an agreement with them last year, and it sounded like there were some compromises made.



You bastard!










I'll trade you my Big-10 HD for your SPEED-HD!

*I WANT SPEED HD*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15878982
> 
> 
> Speaking of coming, the only one I'm jonesing for now is Big-10! I wish they could just come to an agreement on that one. Anybody know if Big-10 is still holding their draconian demands over carriers' heads? I thought it might stop once Comcast came to an agreement with them last year, and it sounded like there were some compromises made.



That must be just over your head. We've had Big 10 HD at TW for sometime now.


I think it started in September 2007. Or this past September. I never watch so I don't remember.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15879140
> 
> 
> You bastard!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll trade you my Big-10 HD for your SPEED-HD!
> 
> *I WANT SPEED HD*



I want SPEED dropped. I removed it from my channel list.







If they gave it in HD I say waste of bandwith.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15879322
> 
> 
> I want SPEED dropped. I removed it from my channel list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they gave it in HD I say waste of bandwith.



.....as is the MLB ch.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15878982
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of coming, the only one I'm jonesing for now is Big-10! I wish they could just come to an agreement on that one. Anybody know if Big-10 is still holding their draconian demands over carriers' heads? I thought it might stop once Comcast came to an agreement with them last year, and it sounded like there were some compromises made.



I'll trade you Big Ten HD for the Paint Drying HD channel or QVC HD. At least Hookbill's wife would like QVC and Paint Drying HD would be HD all the time, unlike Big Ten.


Seriously. Outside of game days, that channel is equivalent to ESPN Classic. I remember one day seeing a game from 2000 on BTN HD, and it had their damn bright blue patterned sidebars on the screen







.


Now I don't know about you, but to me that made the channel an even bigger waste. Who wants to watch a show with bright, pattern bars on the side? I prefer plain black bars on the sied, that are not distracting.


My verdict on this channel: If you have bandwidth to burn, add it! If you're limited in bandwidth, only carry it during live games on the Bonus channel (437). The channel currently occupied by BTN would be better used for F/X.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15879140
> 
> 
> You bastard!



Wow, I didn't know my wife was on here!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15879364
> 
> 
> .....as is the MLB ch.



Blasphemy!!!!! But point taken.










Now (and I know nickdawgs going to get fired up on this) I would like to see MLB network in HD. They are just starting the World Baseball Classic March 3 (I think) and they have "greatest games." The other day I had the pleasure of watching a 2 year old game between the Dodgers and Padres. Dodgers down 4-0 came back and tied it. Padres go 5-4, Dodgers Tie. T'hen Padres are up by 4 with their closer in the ninth. 4 times in a row, whack whack whack whack consecutive home runs. Tied in the 10th. Bottom of the 10th with one on Nomar Garciaparra hits a 2 run walk off.


I started jumping up and down, it didn't matter that the game was 2 years old. My birds were cheering! They do that when I get excited. Whistiling and yelling - or was that the surround - nope that was off. Anyway that's what I would like to see.




Now that's a friggin' ball game.


----------



## Vchat20

What really needs to be done now and maybe someone can put a bug in Jasco's or Fry's ear about this is that all these channels that constantly go 'off air' for large chunks of time should be put on SDV ASAP to cut back on bandwidth usage. Since obviously no one is watching them during that time, just turn em off.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15879471
> 
> 
> Wow, I didn't know my wife was on here!



HA!
























I'm coming over to your house for F1 in HD! Season opener is Sunday March 29th in Australia. So expect me around 4 am that Sunday morning.


Shall I bring donuts??


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15879466
> 
> 
> Now I don't know about you, but to me that made the channel an even bigger waste. Who wants to watch a show with bright, pattern bars on the side? I prefer plain black bars on the sied, that are not distracting.



For me it's about the content and not necessarily the presentation. I couldn't give two rat's hineys for Weather, QVC, USA, TBS, TNT, and several others because I just don't watch them. Actualy, I wouldn't even care if Big-10 was added in analog only. I just want to be able to watch the games of the various sports, as I'm a huge Big-10 fan.


I certainly understand all the debate on here about the technical aspects of the channels and which ones look better or worse in HD. This is, after all, AVS Forum where all of us geeks hang out, and the nature of the forum is about our beloved high-tech gear. But it bugs me sometimes how some people attach other's viewpoints about what channel is worth more simply by the nature of what is being shown and not HOW it's shown. I'm not picking on you at all (actually, I found your post interesting, because I've never been able to watch Big-10 to know how much HD they offer). I'm just making a general statement overall that to me value is completely in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15879564
> 
> 
> HA!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm coming over to your house for F1 in HD! Season opener is Sunday March 29th in Australia. So expect me around 4 am that Sunday morning.
> 
> 
> Shall I bring donuts??



Sounds good to me! Too bad Zanardi's not still racing. Now those are donuts I wouldn't mind seeing in HD!


But I like the ones with chocolate icing and creme filling, too.


----------



## hookbill

What it boils down to is really program content and what you like vs. what I like and Toby10 hit the nail on the head.


Even though I'm not a race fan I do understand why race fans would want Speed in HD. It's "interesting" to glance at even from my perspective. But I'm not getting into it. I don't even consider it a sport, but hey, everyone else does so my opinion doesn't mean diddly.


I do find some things interesting to look at in HD that are sports I don't follow. I watched downhill snow skiing last week. And women's beach volley ball. I enjoy that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15879551
> 
> 
> Blasphemy!!!!! But point taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now (and I know nickdawgs going to get fired up on this) I would like to see MLB network in HD. .



Well, when your area has SDV, then "you can has MLB HD"!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15876721
> 
> 
> I think that 43-2 providing a unique channel, kind of like cables TV Land is exactly what they should use the sub stations for, create more channels like on cable. While I'm not a big fan of "retro" television, many are. I'll look forward to seeing on how this devlops.
> 
> 
> And OK, Bismark. One shot off the bow on the cable talk is cool. Two is tolerable. But a third and you may be starting another OTA vs Cable war.
> 
> 
> Anyone notice that satellite people never cause any trouble?



Ah, don't need 100 channels, but since I don't have a secondary metro like most of you have access to Akron & Y-Town, it's nice to have a bit more than 3, 5, & 8 since DTV is suppose to be better & wonderful!










Remember the Northeast viewing area is pretty much ignored, & Erie's stations are lower power & don't reach here as a secondary market.


Alright I'll quit my whining & pop in a DVD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15879572
> 
> 
> For me it's about the content and not necessarily the presentation. I couldn't give two rat's hineys for Weather, QVC, USA, TBS, TNT, and several others because I just don't watch them. Actualy, I wouldn't even care if Big-10 was added in analog only. I just want to be able to watch the games of the various sports, as I'm a huge Big-10 fan.
> 
> 
> I certainly understand all the debate on here about the technical aspects of the channels and which ones look better or worse in HD. This is, after all, AVS Forum where all of us geeks hang out, and the nature of the forum is about our beloved high-tech gear. But it bugs me sometimes how some people attach other's viewpoints about what channel is worth more simply by the nature of what is being shown and not HOW it's shown. I'm not picking on you at all (actually, I found your post interesting, because I've never been able to watch Big-10 to know how much HD they offer). I'm just making a general statement overall that to me value is completely in the eye of the beholder.



For me, it's all about content and presentation when HD is added. Right now we have 10 national HD channels, 7 of them stretch SD content. Many show little HD content, or even content worth watching(can anyone say HGTV HD or Discovery HDT?). At the same time, there are channels out there with tons of HD content: USA HD, F/X HD, Spike TV HD, National Geographic HD, and so on. USA HD and F/X HD both have all HD original programming(some of the best on TV), repeats of other shows in HD and movies. Plus they keep SD material in its original aspect ratio. That counts too, as channels like TNT and TBS are WORTHLESS when SD programming is stretched. Spike TV has UFC, plus movies and repeats of CSI. In HD. Plus, they also respect OAR. National Geographic also presents most of its content in HD.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/15877484
> 
> 
> Reread what I was responding to. WXIX is running This, WUAB is still on the slide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Trip



If it's running, why the speculation on OMW on what the programming may be?


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/15879802
> 
> 
> If it's running, why the speculation on OMW on what the programming may be?



What speculation?


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15879609
> 
> 
> What it boils down to is really program content and what you like vs. what I like and Toby10 hit the nail on the head.
> 
> 
> Even though I'm not a race fan I do understand why race fans would want Speed in HD. It's "interesting" to glance at even from my perspective. But I'm not getting into it. I don't even consider it a sport, but hey, everyone else does so my opinion doesn't mean diddly.
> 
> 
> I do find some things interesting to look at in HD that are sports I don't follow. I watched downhill snow skiing last week. And women's beach volley ball. I enjoy that.



Hey Hook, I always say about NASCAR: Go watch traffic!! If you want to see it in HD, just watch FOX 8's HD traffic cam. Same thing!!































I love Beach Volleyball. One of the best events of the Olympics. Until it was the men's turn!


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg stole my signature!!!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15881104
> 
> 
> Nickdawg stole my signature!!!!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15880941
> 
> 
> Hey Hook, I always say about NASCAR: Go watch traffic!! If you want to see it in HD, just watch FOX 8's HD traffic cam. Same thing!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love Beach Volleyball. One of the best events of the Olympics. Until it was the men's turn!



NASCAR I agree, I don't watch it. F1, Indy, GP, GTP, SCCA is another story.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15882813
> 
> 
> NASCAR I agree, I don't watch it. F1, Indy, GP, GTP, SCCA is another story.



F1=Formula 1, Indy, GP Those I know. The other two, I have no idea.


I like demolition derby and bumper cars.







Don't want them in HD, however.


----------



## hookbill

Although I'm not into it I kind of like watching motorcycle racing. It's like Roller Derby on Motorcycles. Those things don't have breaks and they actually try to knock each other down. I've met one or two of the riders and they are definitely insane.


Now that would be fun to watch in HD. I'll bet that's on Speed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15883380
> 
> 
> Although I'm not into it I kind of like watching motorcycle racing. It's like Roller Derby on Motorcycles. Those things don't have breaks and they actually try to knock each other down. I've met one or two of the riders and they are definitely insane.
> 
> 
> Now that would be fun to watch in HD. I'll bet that's on Speed.



Oh yeah, and quite popular. I have a sport bike myself, but those guys racing are indeed NUTZ! In Superbike Races they take turns at 100+ mph, leaning the bike WAY over, with their knee just touching the pavement, and a competitor three inches away along side of them.










One of your sneakers (not a pair, a single sneaker) has more road contact surface area than both of their bike tires combined!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15883380
> 
> 
> Although I'm not into it I kind of like watching motorcycle racing. It's like Roller Derby on Motorcycles. Those things don't have breaks and they actually try to knock each other down. I've met one or two of the riders and they are definitely insane.
> 
> 
> Now that would be fun to watch in HD. I'll bet that's on Speed.



Me too!! I also like to watch motocross when that's on in the summer. Usually on ABC or ESPN during the X Games. And it does look fantastic in HD.


I like Universal HD as they show some replays of the summer Dew Tour(which I didn't get to see the USA parts in HD) and they currently show the winter events.


----------



## nickdawg

On HD On Demand, there is a category called "F/X" that has two episodes of Nip/Tuck and two movies. I'm assuming once Rescue Me starts, they'll post episodes to that channel. Which works for me, I don't have to worry about hard drive space recording it or conflicts watching it live, depending what day the show is on.


And I was right: the audio on WOIO is garbage. But Hookbill was right that CBS has good digital audio. There is an episode of Survivor on HD On Demand. First of all, the picture quality is far superior to WOIO. I've seen it on WOIO and didn't think much of it. When I saw it on HD OD, I was like "Holy Crap!". Also, the audio sounds better too. At the same volume level, it would sound awful on WOIO. Between commercials and even in the show, there would be abrasive "blasts" of sound. But on demand, it sounded balanced and professional. But then again, we are talking WOIO







.


Also, what the F--K is wrong with WBNX? They sound worse than WOIO. The bass is so f'ing bloated it is obnoxious. Everything is set, every channel sounds fine. But as I was watching Drew Carey, the opening theme and even the damn commercials sounded like I was in a night club. Something is not right, I can hear rumbling from the sub when the people are talking







. Then I leave the room and I hear a horrible noise, like a train or a car with a bad audio system. I come back in the room and it's the beginning of Jericho in HD. Sounds like ass too!







I have this weeks episode fo Supernatural, I'll have to listen to that too. But I haven't even watched that one lately either, due to the crappy sound.


----------



## hookbill

WBNX has improved their sound a great deal since they went 5.1, but not as good as it should be. With WKYC they have good sound accept with Law & Order. They don't make good use of rear channels. WJW is good specially 24. I thin WEWS can be a bit week on the rear speakers.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15887436
> 
> 
> WBNX has improved their sound a great deal since they went 5.1, but not as good as it should be. With WKYC they have good sound accept with Law & Order. They don't make good use of rear channels. WJW is good specially 24. I thin WEWS can be a bit week on the rear speakers.



WKYC and WEWS are perfect for me. ABC and NBC HD primetime sound the best to me. I have issues with WJW too, they're too loud. Watching Hell's Kitchen, I've switched to 2 Channel only just to kill the rears, too much BS noise coming out the back. I hate that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15887510
> 
> 
> WKYC and WEWS are perfect for me. ABC and NBC HD primetime sound the best to me. I have issues with WJW too, they're too loud. Watching Hell's Kitchen, I've switched to 2 Channel only just to kill the rears, too much BS noise coming out the back. I hate that.




Actually I agree with you about the volume. But I prefer it loud. I like the rear speakers and that volume let's you hear the distinctive separation of the back speakers. Hells Kitchen is loud by design to empathize Ramsey's yelling.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15887676
> 
> 
> Actually I agree with you about the volume. But I prefer it loud. I like the rear speakers and that volume let's you hear the distinctive separation of the back speakers. Hells Kitchen is loud by design to empathize Ramsey's yelling.



I disagree about Hells Kitchen because it is not HD. It is not supposed to be surround sound. FOX upconverts all SD programming to surround on their digital feed. FG and American Dad on Sundays sound bad too because of the upconversion. That's why I usually tape them on 8 instead, so I can have the 2 channel digital audio.


I don't like upconvert. I prefer to have it in the original format.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15887790
> 
> 
> I disagree about Hells Kitchen because it is not HD. It is not supposed to be surround sound. FOX upconverts all SD programming to surround on their digital feed. FG and American Dad on Sundays sound bad too because of the upconversion. That's why I usually tape them on 8 instead, so I can have the 2 channel digital audio.
> 
> 
> I don't like upconvert. I prefer to have it in the original format.



Just because its SD doesn't mean its up converted. And for someone who doesn't like bars you would think FOX wide screen would be perfect for you.


But then again this is nickdawg, who had to keep going until a disagreement started







.


----------



## Vchat20

Also be well advised that HD and surround sound have absolutely nothing in relation to each other. Now if you are talking about analog SD feeds (which would be the case for you cleveland folk when talking about locals) that is one thing. But for real digital feeds, it is just as easy to feed a 5.1 384kbps AC3 audio feed in a digital 480i channel as it is in either a 720p or 1080i feed.


Though with that out of the way, I have absolutely no clue what is what as far as audio is concerned between of the OTA stations around here, the links to TWC, and the final run to your set-top and whether those 5.1 signals are retained or downconverted anywhere along the line. I still am running off the basic 2 channel audio out of my tv fed by HDMI. Even a real low budget surround sound system that I can feed via optical or coaxial is out of my reach for the time being.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15887990
> 
> 
> Just because its SD doesn't mean its up converted. And for someone who doesn't like bars you would think FOX wide screen would be perfect for you.
> 
> 
> But then again this is nickdawg, who had to keep going until a disagreement started
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



No, I'm talking about audio. FOX upconverts the audio on the digital side.


And yes, I like digital widescreen (480i). I wish more channels would choose to broadcast in that format.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15888962
> 
> 
> No, I'm talking about audio. FOX upconverts the audio on the digital side.
> 
> 
> And yes, I like digital widescreen (480i). I wish more channels would choose to broadcast in that format.




Tell you what. I'm not certain and since you don't watch on 408 I will pay closer attention next show. If I hear separation in the rear speakers that woul be proof of true surround.


My observations of "faux" surround is sound from the front only except commercials. I will get back to you on this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15889143
> 
> 
> Tell you what. I'm not certain and since you don't watch on 408 I will pay closer attention next show. If I hear separation in the rear speakers that woul be proof of true surround.
> 
> 
> My observations of "faux" surround is sound from the front only except commercials. I will get back to you on this.



If it is real surround, then it is poorly made. Right now, the awards show is on ABC HD. It sounds perfect. Flip over there now to see! You can hear applause out the rear, but it is not overwhelming. FOX always has overwhelming rear sound. And WOIO is the worst of all. On non-HD programming you can her the fake surround, the center is too LOUD. Also, there are random bursts out of the rears.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15889265
> 
> 
> If it is real surround, then it is poorly made. Right now, the awards show is on ABC HD. It sounds perfect. Flip over there now to see! You can hear applause out the rear, but it is not overwhelming. FOX always has overwhelming rear sound. And WOIO is the worst of all. On non-HD programming you can her the fake surround, the center is too LOUD. Also, there are random bursts out of the rears.



I agree the sound is louder in the rear on WJW and WOIO. I don't hear these "burst" you mention unless its by design.


We are running in circles. And I don't watch oscars. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I will bet this once again will come down to what you prefer vs what I prefer.


Isn't that what it always comes down to?


----------



## scnrfrq

Does anyone in TW NEOhio have Primetime on Demand yet? If so, what channel? I wish they would do a better job keeping us up-to-date on channel changes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15894290
> 
> 
> Does anyone in TW NEOhio have Primetime on Demand yet? If so, what channel? I wish they would do a better job keeping us up-to-date on channel changes.



YES. It's channel 516.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15894705
> 
> 
> YES. It's channel 516.



I asked here about a week ago too, and no, it's still not on 516 in Erie. Wonder what's up with this?


----------



## nickdawg

It's already bad enough they cannot show 16:9 programming in 16:9 full screen. And it sucks that the HD feed of all HD programming is gone.


But now they're showing 4:3 programming shrunk inside the 4:3 window. So on an HDTV set, you get the normal bars on the left and right PLUS a smaller picture surrounded by black INSIDE the 4:3 area. On a SDTV set viewing the SD channel, you'd see a small black frame around the picture.


It makes no sense why 4:3 material is being windowboxed inside the 4:3 safe area.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15894808
> 
> 
> I asked here about a week ago too, and no, it's still not on 516 in Erie. Wonder what's up with this?



If you have an OCAP box, press Vol+ , Vol-, INFO on the front of the box to reboot it and see if it shows up then.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15894836
> 
> 
> It's already bad enough they cannot show 16:9 programming in 16:9 full screen. And it sucks that the HD feed of all HD programming is gone.
> 
> 
> But now they're showing 4:3 programming shrunk inside the 4:3 window. So on an HDTV set, you get the normal bars on the left and right PLUS a smaller picture surrounded by black INSIDE the 4:3 area. On a SDTV set viewing the SD channel, you'd see a small black frame around the picture.
> 
> 
> It makes no sense why 4:3 material is being windowboxed inside the 4:3 safe area.



What are you talking about? I've had the news on since 4:00 and the only thing I've seen is stretch o vision when they go to an interview or out of the studio.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15895022
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? I've had the news on since 4:00 and the only thing I've seen is stretch o vision when they go to an interview or out of the studio.



What? WNEO has news at 4pm now??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15894808
> 
> 
> I asked here about a week ago too, and no, it's still not on 516 in Erie. Wonder what's up with this?



You are not on the same line up at nickdawg, I would guess.


TW's website, which is not up to date shows you have On Demand on channel 1. I believe you said that was incorrect, but if not that's where it should be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15895052
> 
> 
> What? WNEO has news at 4pm now??



I could have sworn you said WOIO. My bad, I don't even get WNEO.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15895073
> 
> 
> You are not on the same line up at nickdawg, I would guess.
> 
> 
> TW's website, which is not up to date shows you have On Demand on channel 1. I believe you said that was incorrect, but if not that's where it should be.



That's changing next week. On March 1st, On Demand channels are being added in the 500s as individual channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15895087
> 
> 
> That's changing next week. On March 1st, On Demand channels are being added in the 500s as individual channels.



Yeah, sure it is. And we are getting more HD on March 15.










nickdawg I have some Ocean Front property in Arizona that has a clear signal to WNEO HD. And all the programs are really in HD! You interested?


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.
> 
> WBNX, WAOH, WOHZ, WIVM, WYFX HD, WTRF, Lifeskool On Demand, Great American Country, GSN, BBC America On Demand, FSN Pittsburgh, Inspirational Life, Outdoor Channel, NBA TV, E!, Logo, ShopNBC, Style, Weather Channel, HD Net, HD Net Movies.
> 
> Primetime On Demand will be added to the line-up on, or after, February 18, 2009. On 3/5/09 National Geographic On Demand will cease to exist as a separate channel. Its programming will move to News & World On Demand. On or after, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.
> 
> WQLN/PBS/54 will be added as a Digital Access channel 0n 2/18/09 in some areas. On 3/31/09, WDLI/TBN/17 will be added to Basic Service in these same areas.
> 
> Where it is carried, MoviePlex will be dropped from the Expanded Basic line-up on, or after 3/15/09. At that same time, RetroPlex will be added to the line-up on the Movie Tier.
> 
> The following changes will take place on, or after, 3/15/09: In the Cadiz, Hopedale, Jewett, and Scio systems, MoviePlex will be dropped from the Expanded Basic Line-up. In Cadiz, RetroPlex will be added to Digital Basic.
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.



Looks like on Demand Channels aren't going to be individual channels yay for Erie Suburbs that already have On-Demand Channels in the 500s and still no Primetime on Demand


----------



## Vchat20

Hey nickdawg. Give me it straight. Do you prefer 16:9 or 4:3? I'm getting really confused. One day you are singing the praises of centercut programming yet the next you absolutely love seeing 16:9 programming. Which is it?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15895837
> 
> 
> Hey nickdawg. Give me it straight. Do you prefer 16:9 or 4:3? I'm getting really confused. One day you are singing the praises of centercut programming yet the next you absolutely love seeing 16:9 programming. Which is it?



Well, *this* should be fun...


----------



## ErieMarty

is available in the City of Erie right now..


shows available are from CBS, FX, NBC and a couple more..I don't remember seeing ABC or FOX...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15895837
> 
> 
> Hey nickdawg. Give me it straight. Do you prefer 16:9 or 4:3? I'm getting really confused. One day you are singing the praises of centercut programming yet the next you absolutely love seeing 16:9 programming. Which is it?



Believe it or not, I kind of understand nickdawg on this. Allow me to give it a go.


nickdawg prefers 16X9. He doesn't like bars and will stretch to get rid of them. The reason you are confused as to what he likes and doesn't like is his constant insisting that he would prefer to watch certain channels in SD. However he can stretch those SD channels. Many times that reason is a bug that appears in the middle of the HD screen. There are others more confusing then that but that's an example.


Nickdawg will swear up and down that pq on digital SD is as good as HD which is another reason he will take SD. This applies to channels that has substations, which he hates. He doesn't like fast action blurred and this only happens according to nickdawg in HD and on channels with subs.


So it's not that he prefers 4:3, he doesn't. He just is picky about his HD. Now the FACT that any HD beats the pants of any digital SD, that does not apply in nickdawg world.










Take it away, nickdawg.......I think I covered it though.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15898902
> 
> 
> Believe it or not, I kind of understand nickdawg on this. Allow me to give it a go.
> 
> 
> nickdawg prefers 16X9. He doesn't like bars and will stretch to get rid of them. The reason you are confused as to what he likes and doesn't like is his constant insisting that he would prefer to watch certain channels in SD. However he can stretch those SD channels. Many times that reason is a bug that appears in the middle of the HD screen. There are others more confusing then that but that's an example.
> 
> 
> Nickdawg will swear up and down that pq on digital SD is as good as HD which is another reason he will take SD. This applies to channels that has substations, which he hates. He doesn't like fast action blurred and this only happens according to nickdawg in HD and on channels with subs.
> 
> 
> So it's not that he prefers 4:3, he doesn't. He just is picky about his HD. Now the FACT that any HD beats the pants of any digital SD, that does not apply in nickdawg world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it away, nickdawg.......I think I covered it though.



I believe I understand, too, and feel the same way. My viewing preferences in order of priority:


1. 16x9 HD (I have a 720p set, so whether it's 720p or 1080i really doesn't matter to me...)


2. 16x9 Digital SD which is usually shown as Letterbox (black bars on 4 sides.) I can easily zoom this and it fills up the screen and most (true) digital channels on TW actually look pretty good this way.


3. 16x9 Analog SD, shown as above. The quality here is highly dependant upon the channel and its transmission quality from the head end. Some, like Sci-Fi aren't too bad; others are barely watchable.


4. 4x3 - I have a 44-in screen and hate when the transmission media turns it into a 36-in! However I hate stretch-o-vision and zooming the picture to fill the screen often leaves out a lot, depending on the program.


RJ


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15898902
> 
> 
> Believe it or not, I kind of understand nickdawg on this. Allow me to give it a go.
> 
> 
> nickdawg prefers 16X9. He doesn't like bars and will stretch to get rid of them.



WRONG!! Couldn't be any more wrong that that. As I have said before, I despise "stretch-o-vision" and will not watch HD channels with stretcehd programming. What I want is either full screen 16:9 on programming that is 16:9 OR 4:3 programming shown in 4:3. The only bars I hate are the horizontal ones because there is no reason to show a 16:9 picture INSIDE a 16:9 screen with black space on all four sides.



> Quote:
> However he can stretch those SD channels. Many times that reason is a bug that appears in the middle of the HD screen. There are others more confusing then that but that's an example.



WRONG AGAIN!! The reason why I watch SD versions of HD channels is to get AWAY from stretching. I won't watch TBS HD if the program is stretched. I deleted an entire series from History HD because the program was always shown stretched.



> Quote:
> Nickdawg will swear up and down that pq on digital SD is as good as HD which is another reason he will take SD. This applies to channels that has substations, which he hates. He doesn't like fast action blurred and this only happens according to nickdawg in HD and on channels with subs.



WRONG AGAIN!! (good quality)Digital SDTV can look almost as good as HDTV. When you compare a digital source like VOD to the regular analog channel of USA, the program from the VOD channel DOES look better because it is no analog or starved digital.


And yes, subchannels are awful. If you don't believe me, go watch ZVIZ World and WVIZ Create channels 364 and 365 and see what a compressed to death mess they are.



> Quote:
> So it's not that he prefers 4:3, he doesn't. He just is picky about his HD. Now the FACT that any HD beats the pants of any digital SD, that does not apply in nickdawg world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it away, nickdawg.......I think I covered it though.



threee strikes, as they would say on MLB HD







, YOU'RE OUT!!!


I am very picky, whether it is HD or SD digital, I WANT THE BEST QUALITY. And crap like having three subchannels of PBS reruns and a boring CSPAN type thing or downrezzing CBS to 720p







is NOT the best quality.


And no, it's not "any HD beats the pants off SD". Stretched SD programming upconverted to HD resolution is NOT better. It's garbage. Take a look at TBS or any of the other $h!t channels in the 440s.


----------



## Trip in VA

I really don't see why nickdawg doesn't have a C-band dish so he can just watch the raw network feeds at ~30 Mbps.










- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15901516
> 
> 
> WRONG!! Couldn't be any more wrong that that. As I have said before, I despise "stretch-o-vision" and will not watch HD channels with stretcehd programming. What I want is either full screen 16:9 on programming that is 16:9 OR 4:3 programming shown in 4:3. The only bars I hate are the horizontal ones because there is no reason to show a 16:9 picture INSIDE a 16:9 screen with black space on all four sides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG AGAIN!! The reason why I watch SD versions of HD channels is to get AWAY from stretching. I won't watch TBS HD if the program is stretched. I deleted an entire series from History HD because the program was always shown stretched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WRONG AGAIN!! (good quality)Digital SDTV can look almost as good as HDTV. When you compare a digital source like VOD to the regular analog channel of USA, the program from the VOD channel DOES look better because it is no analog or starved digital.
> 
> 
> And yes, subchannels are awful. If you don't believe me, go watch ZVIZ World and WVIZ Create channels 364 and 365 and see what a compressed to death mess they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> threee strikes, as they would say on MLB HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , YOU'RE OUT!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I am very picky, whether it is HD or SD digital, I WANT THE BEST QUALITY. And crap like having three subchannels of PBS reruns and a boring CSPAN type thing or downrezzing CBS to 720p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is NOT the best quality.
> 
> 
> And no, it's not "any HD beats the pants off SD". Stretched SD programming upconverted to HD resolution is NOT better. It's garbage. Take a look at TBS or any of the other $h!t channels in the 440s.



This is why nobody understands you.


----------



## Vchat20

Also nickdawg, I wanna know who you think stretches SD programming anymore. To be quite honest, I haven't seen much to that effect. The only offenders I have known have been like HGTV and and Food network and they've done a decent job of getting most of their aired programming bumped to Native HD. TNT and TBS do stretched programming but it's linear so it's an easy fix with the aspect modes on the set-top or on the tv. Everyone else seems to keep true to OAR from what I have seen. Or the very least they have letterboxed programming that they can cleanly upscale to 16:9 HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15904670
> 
> 
> Also nickdawg, I wanna know who you think stretches SD programming anymore. To be quite honest, I haven't seen much to that effect. The only offenders I have known have been like HGTV and and Food network and they've done a decent job of getting most of their aired programming bumped to Native HD. TNT and TBS do stretched programming but it's linear so it's an easy fix with the aspect modes on the set-top or on the tv. Everyone else seems to keep true to OAR from what I have seen. Or the very least they have letterboxed programming that they can cleanly upscale to 16:9 HD.



Not to be rude, as it sounds in typing. But are you seeing the same channels I am? TNT/TBS are NOT fixable, they are funhouse mirror effect where the sides are distorted and the middle remains relatively the same. When you squeeze it, the middle looks funny. It's a non-linear stretch. A&E networks and FDHD/HGTV also appear to use the similar methods.


History HD stretches new letterboxed programming. While one instance of the show may be proper HD, another is SD and stretched letterbox. I was watching Racheal Ray on Food, and the stretching gave her a flat, moon face. I don't watch A&E or HGTV, but when I looked at them they were bad.


I can tell you right now that 441-447 DO NOT keep true OAR.


----------



## hookbill

You just had to get him going.










If anything he said today resembles anything he said in the part, its purely coincidental.


----------



## scnrfrq

Primetime On Demand is now on 516 in Erie County, PA. I had to contact our local manager, and he got it on the next day. Pretty good service.


----------



## hookbill

Tribe vs hated evil SF Giants on STO right now in HD.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15912183
> 
> 
> Tribe vs hated evil SF Giants on STO right now in HD.



Same game is also supposed to be on MLB Network, but it's blacked out on TW. Wonder how often that will happen? It would be nice to have MLB in HD too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/15912235
> 
> 
> Same game is also supposed to be on MLB Network, but it's blacked out on TW. Wonder how often that will happen? It would be nice to have MLB in HD too.




It was on MLB Network first inning. That's how I spotted it. And I agree 100% it would be great to have MLB Network in HD.


----------



## nickdawg

Why? If it is on STO, then it's probably HD.


I would take MLB HD on ONE condition: it MUST *REPLACE* either HGTV HD(445) or Discovery HDT(448).


Oh and that stupid channel(s) called FSN HD(that show the stupid FSN Ohio blue screen crap 95% of the time) has to be moved to SDV only.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15912412
> 
> 
> Why? If it is on STO, then it's probably HD.
> 
> 
> I would take MLB HD on ONE condition: it MUST *REPLACE* either HGTV HD(445) or Discovery HDT(448).



For one, the World Baseball Classic is starting. I know we won't have MLB Network HD but that would be the way I prefer to watch it.


Second, so we could see more games other then Cleveland. MLB Network is going to televise spring training games and regular season as well. That's why. Plus their programming has been pretty good IMHO. Although I don't get too much of a chance to actually watch it I would like to see it in HD.


If they can have BIG10HD, why not MLB Network HD? I never look at Big10 I could care less.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15912412
> 
> 
> Oh and that stupid channel(s) called FSN HD(that show the stupid FSN Ohio blue screen crap 95% of the time) has to be moved to SDV only.



That makes perfect sense. A good decision.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15912531
> 
> 
> For one, the World Baseball Classic is starting. I know we won't have MLB Network HD but that would be the way I prefer to watch it.
> 
> 
> Second, so we could see more games other then Cleveland. MLB Network is going to televise spring training games and regular season as well. That's why. Plus their programming has been pretty good IMHO. Although I don't get too much of a chance to actually watch it I would like to see it in HD.
> 
> 
> If they can have BIG10HD, why not MLB Network HD? I never look at Big10 I could care less.



Why not switch out BIG10HD for MLB? Football season is over. Basketball season will be over shortly(it is almost March). What is the purpose of having this channel between late March/April-late August?


Once March Madness is over, B10 will just be non-mainstream sports/events, in studio reports and "classic" games. Most of the "classic" stuff is SDTV with patterned side panels.


Add MLB HD in time for the beginning of baseball season. At least it would be a NEW programming choice. Plus, TWC should have SDV and more channels added by August so Big Ten can be added again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15912678
> 
> 
> Why not switch out BIG10HD for MLB? Football season is over. Basketball season will be over shortly(it is almost March). What is the purpose of having this channel between late March/April-late August?
> 
> 
> Once March Madness is over, B10 will just be non-mainstream sports/events, in studio reports and "classic" games. Most of the "classic" stuff is SDTV with patterned side panels.
> 
> 
> Add MLB HD in time for the beginning of baseball season. At least it would be a NEW programming choice. Plus, TWC should have SDV and more channels added by August so Big Ten can be added again.



As I was reading your response on my Blackberry I found myself saying, "My God. He just made total sense."










By the time I got to my computer however I changed my mind. No need really to split them, with SDV they should be able to do both with no problem.


However as it stands right now, you're idea is a good one. To bad Time Warner doesn't think like nickdawg thinks.










I didn't actually say that, did I?


----------



## nickdawg

Tonight during "Lost" and earlier during the local news I noticed that the picture is acting funny on WEWHD. Going between commercials as well as between the show and commercials, the picture freezes, breaks up and there was even a bright flash of green as Lost returned from break.


As far as I can see, the problem is only on WEWHD. I also watched UHD at 7pm and that was normal. But WEWHD at 4 for Oprah, during the news and now Lost has problems.


The problems became less by the time "Life On Mars" started at 10. Although there still were a few hiccups around the end during the previews.


----------



## bassguitarman

This is hilarious

And definitely not suitable for work

and probably the wrong forum

but #7 is the norton furniture ad from Cleveland
http://www.cracked.com/article_17093...-children.html 


Dave


----------



## nickdawg

And while I'm here, WTF?? Am I the only person here who watches Lost and Life on Mars? I posted a comment about the problems on WEWHD, and nobody says anything. I thought Lost was more popular than that!


----------



## hookbill

I can talk to you in about 3 weeks. I recorded both.


Life on Mars is a great show. I'm surprised it hasn't been canceled.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15904670
> 
> 
> Also nickdawg, I wanna know who you think stretches SD programming anymore. To be quite honest, I haven't seen much to that effect. The only offenders I have known have been like HGTV and and Food network and they've done a decent job of getting most of their aired programming bumped to Native HD.



Stretches/Zooms/Crops non-HD, grouped by corporate ownership:


A&E Television Networks

A&E HD, Biography HD, History Channel HD, Crime and Investigation HD


Rainbow Media Holdings

AMC


Discovery Communications

Animal Planet HD, Science HD, TLC HD, Discovery HD, Planet Green HD


Turner Broadcasting System

Cartoon Network HD, TBS HD, TNT HD


Scripps Networks

Food Network HD, HGTV HD


Lifetime Networks

Lifetime HD, Lifetime Movie Network HD


Cox Communications

Travel Channel HD





> Quote:
> TNT and TBS do stretched programming but it's linear so it's an easy fix with the aspect modes on the set-top or on the tv.



No, you can't fix TBS & TNT when they aren't showing HD, since the image is not a linear stretch; it's a panoramic stretch, with the middle of the image relatively not changed and the sides stretched drastically.


----------



## Speedskater

I think that a few of the zooms are OK (well a lot better than what the SA8300HD does) if they start with a high quality 4:3 SD image and only zoom to about 14:9 (not filling the full screen). It's not perfect but it's OK.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/15924237
> 
> 
> No, you can't fix TBS & TNT when they aren't showing HD, since the image is not a linear stretch; it's a panoramic stretch, with the middle of the image relatively not changed and the sides stretched drastically.



Are you absolutely certain? I KNOW the likes of Food network and HGTV do the 'fisheye' stretch or the panoramic stretch as you call it. Try watching Good Eats when they do their horizontal pans. It'll give anyone a massive headache. x.x


But at least on TBS watching some of the older sitcoms the stretching sure looks linear to me. If it's not, they at least hide it fairly damn well.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/15924237
> 
> 
> No, you can't fix TBS & TNT when they aren't showing HD, since the image is not a linear stretch; it's a panoramic stretch, with the middle of the image relatively not changed and the sides stretched drastically.



I've seen that anamorphia stretch on some HD sets and it 's rather disorienting at times. It's especially weird looking during a crawl. I would much rather see a linear stretch.


----------



## hookbill

Dude, if Ken H says that's how it is then that's how it is. He's the man on HD in this forum.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15924799
> 
> 
> Are you absolutely certain? I KNOW the likes of Food network and HGTV do the 'fisheye' stretch or the panoramic stretch as you call it. Try watching Good Eats when they do their horizontal pans. It'll give anyone a massive headache. x.x
> 
> 
> But at least on TBS watching some of the older sitcoms the stretching sure looks linear to me. If it's not, they at least hide it fairly damn well.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15924910
> 
> 
> I've seen that anamorphia stretch on some HD sets and it 's rather disorienting at times. It's especially weird looking during a crawl. I would much rather see a linear stretch.



I would much rather see OAR with bars on the side!










I know what you mean about the crawls. It makes me physically ill watching stretched programming.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15924799
> 
> 
> Are you absolutely certain?



Yes.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15923088
> 
> 
> And while I'm here, WTF?? Am I the only person here who watches Lost and Life on Mars? I posted a comment about the problems on WEWHD, and nobody says anything. I thought Lost was more popular than that!



I watched my recording of Life on Mars last night and saw no problems with it at all.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/15927111
> 
> 
> I watched my recording of Life on Mars last night and saw no problems with it at all.



When nickdawg mentioned a flashing green screen my thought was that sounds like a problem with his DVR. I almost went and skimmed through the two shows just to see if I noticed anything.


nickdawg, were you watching on your HDC or SA 8300 HD? Reason I ask is HDC as you know uses cable cards, maybe that is an issue.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15923088
> 
> 
> And while I'm here, WTF?? Am I the only person here who watches Lost and Life on Mars? I posted a comment about the problems on WEWHD, and nobody says anything. I thought Lost was more popular than that!



I watch Lost every week. I didn't notice any problems. That doesn't mean they weren't there, but nothing caught my attention.


I have my own problems with WEWS (and the PS3), but no problem with live TV.


And I did watch Life On Mars after Lost, though after that one time I doubt that I'll be watching it again. The show was bad, and the whole premise is pretty trite at this point.


I've got Lost on my hard drive. If you can tell me exactly where you spotted the problem(s), I'll go back and look.


----------



## nickdawg

I was watching it live on the HDC box. Where I saw it mostly was during commercials, between commercials and switching from local crap back to network HD. It was doing the same thing earlier that day as well. Only on channel 5. I watched WKYC and WJW last night, both worked fine.


If you still have Life on Mars one part to watch is the closing credits where they show the previews. There was a freeze up at the end before switching to the news promo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15927589
> 
> 
> If you still have Life on Mars one part to watch is the closing credits where they show the previews. There was a freeze up at the end before switching to the news promo.



When the show ends, I hit stop and delete just as the credits come up. I never read the credits.


If it only happened during the commercials, what are you complaining about? Geeze.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15927419
> 
> 
> I watch Lost every week. I didn't notice any problems. That doesn't mean they weren't there, but nothing caught my attention.
> 
> 
> I have my own problems with WEWS (and the PS3), but no problem with live TV.
> 
> 
> And I did watch Life On Mars after Lost, though after that one time I doubt that I'll be watching it again. The show was bad, and the whole premise is pretty trite at this point.
> 
> 
> I've got Lost on my hard drive. If you can tell me exactly where you spotted the problem(s), I'll go back and look.



I don't understand. How could you say the premise is trite if you only watched one show?


Since I'm 3 weeks behind maybe I don't get it. I did notice on the last show they didn't go into the future at all. Still was a watchable show with good actors and characters.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15924799
> 
> 
> But at least on TBS watching some of the older sitcoms the stretching sure looks linear to me. If it's not, they at least hide it fairly damn well.



It looks good because it isn't stretched. Instead, they are cropping off scenes at the top or bottom to produce a 16:9 image.


----------



## ZManCartFan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15927983
> 
> 
> Since I'm 3 weeks behind maybe I don't get it. I did notice on the last show they didn't go into the future at all. Still was a watchable show with good actors and characters.



Hook, you and I are in the same spot on Life on Mars (3 weeks behind). I still want to know what's up with the Russian bug crawling in and out of people! I understand the show's not doing well in the ratings, but I find the story somehow captivating. I have a feeling that it's going to be dropped before we can see it to conclusion, though. I guess there's always the British version, and from what I've heard it's better than the US show.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ZManCartFan* /forum/post/15929382
> 
> 
> Hook, you and I are in the same spot on Life on Mars (3 weeks behind). I still want to know what's up with the Russian bug crawling in and out of people! I understand the show's not doing well in the ratings, but I find the story somehow captivating. I have a feeling that it's going to be dropped before we can see it to conclusion, though. I guess there's always the British version, and from what I've heard it's better than the US show.



hmmm....for a show that doesn't do well how come there is like four of us here watching.


I hate ratings. They are never accurate. I wish they would use data from our recordings and apply that to ratings.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15927966
> 
> 
> When the show ends, I hit stop and delete just as the credits come up. I never read the credits.














































































































Ohhhhhhh noooooooo!!!! For me, I DESPISE those network credit banners with the garbage ads above. I absolutely love seeing the "real" studio credits of a show, usually with the theme song replayed and the credits in the font of the show. When watching a show, the show is NOT OVER until the credits have run and the vanity cards are shown.


I hate it when networks follow your philosophy and ruin the ends of shows for ads or even to start another show!

























> Quote:
> If it only happened during the commercials, what are you complaining about? Geeze.



No, it wasn't just during commercials. It was also during coming in from commercials. Sometimes the picture would appear to "freeze" before and after breaks. And since I saw part of the "ABC filler" material that is shown when affiliates cut to local inserted spots, I assumed that the timing would be off, cutting off part of the show. I have seen that happen before. Usually on a network named after a small, woodland creature







.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15927983
> 
> 
> I don't understand. How could you say the premise is trite if you only watched one show?
> 
> 
> Since I'm 3 weeks behind maybe I don't get it. I did notice on the last show they didn't go into the future at all. Still was a watchable show with good actors and characters.



I LOVE this show. Too bad I only started watching it back in January after Lost. And thanks to DAMN ABC for putting it up against the final season of ER in the fall.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15924799
> 
> 
> But at least on TBS watching some of the older sitcoms the stretching sure looks linear to me. If it's not, they at least hide it fairly damn well.



That would be Seinfeld, which has been transfered to HD.


----------



## hookbill

I just got off the phone with TW. My contact in head end returned my call(s). She told me they are still trying to figure out what the problem is with TiVo and 223 (chiller), then she said she did have some news for me. The Tuner Adapters for TiVo have arrived at the warehouse. They will be giving their techs training and then will start distribution.


I pushed for the answer on the SARA and Navigator thing and she said that is still to be determined. She again confirmed there is no reason why they can't use SARA.


If they have the tuning adapters now then I got to think they will launch SDV within a short period. I've said Fall all along but now I may have to rethink that.


I will give TWNeo credit for getting the Tuner Adapters here before the launch of SDV. Other areas have not been so fortunate, and in some cases it was simply a case of they hadn't come up with them yet.


The big question still remains: Are they going to hold up until they convert SARA to Navigator or will they go with two platforms? I would think with the tuner adapters here that they will go ahead with SARA. That would make sense. What doesn't make sense is the lack of evidence of any testing what so ever.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15930178
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhhh noooooooo!!!! For me, I DESPISE those network credit banners with the garbage ads above. I absolutely love seeing the "real" studio credits of a show, usually with the theme song replayed and the credits in the font of the show. When watching a show, the show is NOT OVER until the credits have run and the vanity cards are shown.
> 
> 
> I hate it when networks follow your philosophy and ruin the ends of shows for ads or even to start another show!



Philosophy???? What philosophy, it's just a decision not to read the credits. The show ends, it's time to move to the next show. I don't have the time for commercials or credits. That's why I'm 3 weeks behind.


How you read these things into a post nickdawg is incredible!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15931398
> 
> 
> 
> The big question still remains: Are they going to hold up until they convert SARA to Navigator or will they go with two platforms? I would think with the tuner adapters here that they will go ahead with SARA. That would make sense. What doesn't make sense is the lack of evidence of any testing what so ever.



Yes they will. I have been discussing this with other areas and several Navigator/SARA systems exist. With SDV/HD channels fully deployed. Also, the only UI that sucks is Passport. SARA is capable of running "extensions" like StartOver, Enhanced TV, Caller ID and other TWC features. Navigator is not even necessary.


Maybe it doesn't have to be "tested". Once they got things going here, they were able to start switching channels. And Chiller was added without a "test" period at all. For all we know, those 5 ne HD services may be among the first SDV channels in Adelphia areas.


See, it looks like they might meet that March deadline after all. I know something is coming, as they are also set to reorganize the VOD channels in Adelphia land.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15931430
> 
> 
> Philosophy???? What philosophy, it's just a decision not to read the credits. The show ends, it's time to move to the next show. I don't have the time for commercials or credits. That's why I'm 3 weeks behind.
> 
> 
> How you read these things into a post nickdawg is incredible!



Yes it is a philosophy. Call it the Church of TNTology!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15931873
> 
> 
> Yes it is a philosophy. Call it the Church of TNTology!!



Why do I try to understand this guy?


They say insanity is taking the same action and having the same results. I gotta be insane to try to understand nickdawg.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15932042
> 
> 
> Why do I try to understand this guy?
> 
> 
> They say insanity is taking the same action and having the same results. I gotta be insane to try to understand nickdawg.



You skip over my other, serious post and respond to the joke?
























Nothing to understand, just humour!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15932049
> 
> 
> You skip over my other, serious post and respond to the joke?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to understand, just humour!!



I had nothing to say about the serious post. Did you see the big grin? I got the joke. Sort of.


You have a strange set of humor.


----------



## JJkizak

Sorry but never heard of Life On Mars. Lost is just a souped up daytime soap, so I lost it.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/15930505
> 
> 
> That would be Seinfeld, which has been transfered to HD.



No. I'm mostly referring to some of the other weekday afternoon reruns like Yes Dear, Just Shoot Me, Home Improvement. Shows that I doubt were neither shot in 16:9 nor would they want to bother transferring them to HD. And in reply to another poster: No, they aren't cut off. They are very much stretched. I'm only saying that the stretching looks very much linear even in panning shots so if they are doing some kind of fisheye job, they are certainly hiding it damn well.


----------



## hookbill

Chiller, 223 is now up on both tivos in my house. Kind of unexpected but appreciated. Last week Joann, my contact called me at 9:00 pm.


Tivo people check t out. I will call tomorrow about guide data.


----------



## nickdawg

About WEWHD: Tongight during 20/20, it briefly did what I described during Lost/Life On Mars, but this time in the middle of the show.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15933268
> 
> 
> Chiller, 223 is now up on both tivos in my house. Kind of unexpected but appreciated. Last week Joann, my contact called me at 9:00 pm.
> 
> 
> Tivo people check t out. I will call tomorrow about guide data.



Tell me hookdog, does Joann know anything about Navigator? According to TWC website, navigator is being upgraded during the month of February. The 8300HD got it a few weeks back. The 4250HD has yet to see any update. I know there's the difference between the OCAP/non-OCAP boxes. But why aren't they upgrading ALL of their Navigator boxes, especially since the OCAP one is worse? And Feb is over tomorrow!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15933331
> 
> 
> Tell me hookdog, does Joann know anything about Navigator? According to TWC website, navigator is being upgraded during the month of February. The 8300HD got it a few weeks back. The 4250HD has yet to see any update. I know there's the difference between the OCAP/non-OCAP boxes. But why aren't they upgrading ALL of their Navigator boxes, especially since the OCAP one is worse? And Feb is over tomorrow!



I get the feeling that she is not involved in any of the changes going on with Navigator. I understand she has been on "loan" to headens for the past couple of years.


She is kind of a problem solver for unique issues. I saw her once about a year ago on ASK TIME WARNER. She was plugging the Voip. So she probably has her hands on several things. But she either doesn't get involved with the planning or she just can't tell me.


Maybe someone will come around with more info and can answer your questions. I just don't know. It just seems TW doesn't want to show their hand.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15931873
> 
> 
> Yes it is a philosophy. Call it the Church of TNTology!!



That joke only works with the Sci-Fi channel.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15927983
> 
> 
> I don't understand. How could you say the premise is trite if you only watched one show?



Just seems like there are a ton of shows out there where someone gets some sort of "otherworldly" help in solving crimes. Let's see: Numbers, Medium, Life on Mars, and several more forgettable ones. What was that one last year about the guy who kept going back into the past? Or what about the one this year where the guy has two identities? How about Monk? And even the first season of Heroes had an element of it (Matt, the cop who could read minds). It's just been way overdone.


I don't watch that many shows. I find almost all TV comedies impossible to watch - they just insult my intelligence. There are a few dramas that have drawn me in, and most of those have a sci-fi element, Lost and Heroes for example.


I also watch Fringe, but I see it mostly as a comedy.







It's like a cross between the XFiles and the old Outer Limits show. The plots they come up with are so bizarre that they make me laugh.


And I always watch 24. I have to time shift it, though, since it's on opposite Heroes. But that's about it. The only other things that I'll watch are an occasional music show, movie, or sporting event.


And, btw, my wife thinks I watch WAY too much television.










Most of the shows that I like best get canceled after one season. (Jericho, Commander In Chief, Invasion, for recent examples).


----------



## hookbill

Television is not in it's "golden era" right now and reality shows and production cost seem to be the main reason. Look at what NBC plans to do with Leno and moving the Tonight show into primetime (not with Leno).


I only watch 2 reality shows with any interest and one of them not that much. That would be Survivor and Amazing Race. I was watching an interview with Tom Selick the other day and he was saying the same thing. He also says something I've suspected for a long time: Reality shows arn't real.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15935029
> 
> 
> Television is not in it's "golden era" right now and reality shows and production cost seem to be the main reason. Look at what NBC plans to do with Leno and moving the Tonight show into primetime (not with Leno).
> 
> 
> I only watch 2 reality shows with any interest and one of them not that much. That would be Survivor and Amazing Race. I was watching an interview with Tom Selick the other day and he was saying the same thing. He also says something I've suspected for a long time: Reality shows arn't real.



{off-topic}Reality shows are professional wrestling programs... just without the wrestling. It has never been "real". Even the gameshows are staged to get some dumb people onto it that honestly think, "I *know* I've got the case!"


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15933318
> 
> 
> About WEWHD: Tongight during 20/20, it briefly did what I described during Lost/Life On Mars, but this time in the middle of the show.



I believe WEW*S*HD may be having problems with their digital transmission. I see the same problems you mention on my Dish Network feed. I also can switch to the OTA feed on the same E* DVR and usually the problem is there too.


Speaking of ch 5, yesterday I had the noon news on when Pres. Obama began his speech to the troops. Newschannel 5 went live to the speech which, at first, was in 16 X 9 (I presume it was true HD because it had none of the artifacts usualy seen with "stretch-o-vision").


As the speech began, suddely ch 5 puts up sidebars





















. Why couldn't they leave it alone?


BTW: I'm a "Life On Mars" fan too, except I keep forgetting it's on in it's new day and time until it's almost over. I should DVR it but I need to archive my hard drive first. I believe "Life on Mars" is targeted to a certain audience: younger Baby Boomers, especially those who graduated from High School in the early 70's. The soundtrack is full of songs I haven't heard since I was in school, and they don't limit the selections to the big hits. On one of the early episodes I caught an obscure Turtles album track ("I'm Chief Kamanawanalea (We're the Royal Macadamia Nuts)") being played during a "disco" scene (keep in mind that music played in a "disco" in the early '70 bore no resemblence to the music that was to become synonymous with discos of the mid to late 70's). I was floored when I heard that one! Even the title of the show is based on a David Bowie song from the Ziggy Stardust album.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15930214
> 
> 
> I LOVE this show. Too bad I only started watching it back in January after Lost. And thanks to DAMN ABC for putting it up against the final season of ER in the fall.



My wife and I got hooked on the original version (on BBC-America). I think they are both very comparable. YMMV!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15935008
> 
> 
> Just seems like there are a ton of shows out there where someone gets some sort of "otherworldly" help in solving crimes. Let's see: Numbers, Medium, Life on Mars, and several more forgettable ones. What was that one last year about the guy who kept going back into the past? Or what about the one this year where the guy has two identities? How about Monk? And even the first season of Heroes had an element of it (Matt, the cop who could read minds). It's just been way overdone....................



Sadly their seems to be a lot of copy-cat writing going on. Whether it's the writers getting inspired by a particular theme or the "suits" seeing something working and demanding the writers come up with something similar I dunno. Probably more the later.










But it's nothing new. Remember the bunch of movies that came out with the "asteroid is headed towards earth" theme? Or the "stranded on another planet" theme? Alien themes after the movie Aliens was such a hit? For a while about the only network themes were hospitals and cop shows. Now it's psychics and reality shows.


One hit theme and there is almost always copy-cat followers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/15936285
> 
> 
> Sadly their seems to be a lot of copy-cat writing going on. Whether it's the writers getting inspired by a particular theme or the "suits" seeing something working and demanding the writers come up with something similar I dunno. Probably more the later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's nothing new. Remember the bunch of movies that came out with the "asteroid is headed towards earth" theme? Or the "stranded on another planet" theme? Alien themes after the movie Aliens was such a hit? For a while about the only network themes were hospitals and cop shows. Now it's psychics and reality shows.
> 
> 
> One hit theme and there is almost always copy-cat followers.



As you said the copycat writing is nothing new. Been going on since The Adams Family and The Munsters. Probably before that.


But now what they are doing is taking the psyche shows and mixing them with cops, like the Metalist which IMHO is a horrible show. Then there is Psyche on USA that pokes fun of the idea. Mentioned earlier "Fringe" "Medium" combine both cops and the supernatural. Oh, lets not forget "Supernatural." And the "11th Hour" which takes cops and doctors.


All of topic for sure but fun to discuss


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15936377
> 
> 
> As you said the copycat writing is nothing new. Been going on since The Adams Family and The Munsters. Probably before that.
> 
> 
> But now what they are doing is taking the psyche shows and mixing them with cops, like the Metalist which IMHO is a horrible show. Then there is Psyche on USA that pokes fun of the idea. Mentioned earlier "Fringe" "Medium" combine both cops and the supernatural. Oh, lets not forget "Supernatural." And the "11th Hour" which takes cops and doctors.
> 
> 
> All of topic for sure but fun to discuss



I agree. I cannot stand "The Mentalist". It's like they took "Monk" and "Psych" and mashed them together, removing everything that makes each show good in the process. He uses his powers of observation, except without the OCD, which makes Monk a better show. He pretends to be a psychic like Psych, except without the personality of Shawn Spencer and the sidekick Gus. That Mentalist guy has less of a personality than a roll of paper towels.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15933331
> 
> 
> Tell me hookdog, does Joann know anything about Navigator? According to TWC website, navigator is being upgraded during the month of February. The 8300HD got it a few weeks back. The 4250HD has yet to see any update. I know there's the difference between the OCAP/non-OCAP boxes. But why aren't they upgrading ALL of their Navigator boxes, especially since the OCAP one is worse? And Feb is over tomorrow!




Just as an FYI my 4250HD got an update earlier this week ( monday night?)

in the former comcast west zone


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15938403
> 
> 
> Just as an FYI my 4250HD got an update earlier this week ( monday night?)
> 
> in the former comcast west zone



Does it still have the "electric blue" guide color scheme or the dark blue/black/gold color scheme?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15938403
> 
> 
> Just as an FYI my 4250HD got an update earlier this week ( monday night?)
> 
> in the former comcast west zone



What are you running out there? SARA or Navigator? Or did you switch from SARA to Navigator?


Any activity on your diagnostic screen? To get to your diagnostic screen press and hold select then when you see the little envelope press info. All of this is done on the box. When you're in the diagnostic screen press the up and down key on the right of the remote by the center. That should bring you to the SDV screens. See if you notice any activity.


----------



## lbvp

cant get to the box right at the moment. I'll check.

is the new update the dk blue/gold?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15938604
> 
> 
> cant get to the box right at the moment. I'll check.
> 
> is the new update the dk blue/gold?



It really depends on what you have, SARA or Navigator.


What time did you get the update?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/15938604
> 
> 
> cant get to the box right at the moment. I'll check.
> 
> is the new update the dk blue/gold?



Dark blue/gold---that's the new Navigator.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15938541
> 
> 
> Does it still have the "electric blue" guide color scheme or the dark blue/black/gold color scheme?



I live in Amherst also and I have the "electric blue" guide on the 4250HD box. I tried using Hookbills instructions in get into the diagnostic screen with no luck. I push and held the select button and got the letter symbol, but when I pushed info all I got was the info for the channel that was on. Sorry


----------



## Vchat20

The easiest way to check is to simply unplug the box and plug it back in, leaving the tv on, and see what the boot screen displays. You'll either get the big blue 'Mystro' boot screen (HDC box it's OCAP, otherwise it's non-OCAP native box code), Aptiv Passport (non-DVR boxes), Aptiv Passport Echo (DVR boxes), or SARA (no clue on that one. Never used it. Never will.)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/15938837
> 
> 
> I live in Amherst also and I have the "electric blue" guide on the 4250HD box. I tried using Hookbills instructions in get into the diagnostic screen with no luck. I push and held the select button and got the letter symbol, but when I pushed info all I got was the info for the channel that was on. Sorry



Push and hold "Select". When the letter symbol flahses, press (arrow) DOWN on the remote or CHANNEL DOWN on the front of the box.


For some reason, INFO doesn't work on ODN(HDC) boxes. But it does work on MDN boxes, like my 8300HD.


----------



## Vchat20

Also nickdawg, the diag screen you get varies between of pressing the down button on the remote and the one on the box at least for the HDC's. On the remote you only get the 'software' diag with the translucent background. Mostly stuff like SDV info, Caller ID onscreen status, junk like that. On the box itself you get into the more low level hardware stuff like cablecard info, tuner status, signal levels, OCAP services, etc.. It all depends on what info you are after as to what screen you should go to.


It may be different for you with the 8300HD and IIRC using my aunt's 8000HD with MDN, it compiles all the diagnostics into the single screen like Passport so it doesn't matter whether you activate it through the remote or the front panel of the box.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15938862
> 
> 
> Push and hold "Select". When the letter symbol flahses, press (arrow) DOWN on the remote or CHANNEL DOWN on the front of the box.
> 
> 
> For some reason, INFO doesn't work on ODN(HDC) boxes. But it does work on MDN boxes, like my 8300HD.



Here are a few lines from the SDV page.


SDV Authorized: True

SDV Service Registration: State Pending

SDV Service Group:0


If you want more info just let me know.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/15938920
> 
> 
> Here are a few lines from the SDV page.
> 
> 
> SDV Authorized: True
> 
> SDV Service Registration: State Pending
> 
> SDV Service Group:0
> 
> 
> If you want more info just let me know.



Try going to one of the known SDV channels (like STOHD or Chiller) and check back and see what the 'Tuner status' lines on the SDV page read.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15938862
> 
> 
> Push and hold "Select". When the letter symbol flahses, press (arrow) DOWN on the remote or CHANNEL DOWN on the front of the box.
> 
> 
> For some reason, INFO doesn't work on ODN(HDC) boxes. But it does work on MDN boxes, like my 8300HD.



That has to be Navigator. My 4250 works the way I described.


I just got a call from Joann at TW. She is telling me that nobody in my area with cads was getting 223. They did not send the hit out to us. They "forgot."


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15938877
> 
> 
> Also nickdawg, the diag screen you get varies between of pressing the down button on the remote and the one on the box at least for the HDC's. On the remote you only get the 'software' diag with the translucent background. Mostly stuff like SDV info, Caller ID onscreen status, junk like that. On the box itself you get into the more low level hardware stuff like cablecard info, tuner status, signal levels, OCAP services, etc.. It all depends on what info you are after as to what screen you should go to.
> 
> 
> It may be different for you with the 8300HD and IIRC using my aunt's 8000HD with MDN, it compiles all the diagnostics into the single screen like Passport so it doesn't matter whether you activate it through the remote or the front panel of the box.



On MDN, the diagnostic screen is almost 30 pages(screens) long. On ODN, I get a 9 page long screen.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15938928
> 
> 
> Try going to one of the known SDV channels (like STOHD or Chiller) and check back and see what the 'Tuner status' lines on the SDV page read.



Both Primary and Secondary Tuner Status are inactive for the Chiller Channel.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15938962
> 
> 
> On MDN, the diagnostic screen is almost 30 pages(screens) long. On ODN, I get a 9 page long screen.



Exactly. Like I said, ODN has the 'hardware' and 'software' diag screens separated. Probably more related to the fact that you have the universal Java code that Navigator is written in and the OCAP Java VM interacts directly with the box hardware. So the 'hardware' diag screen that you get through the down button on the front of the box is fed by OCAP while the screen via the remote is fed by Navigator. But for the MDN boxes which don't have OCAP but have the Navigator code interacting directly with the hardware, everything is consolidated into one chunk.


On a side note, went to the local Circuit City here in Niles to see what they had left (boy are they CLEANED OUT. Almost looks like the place was robbed.). Had a Tivo HD for $150 sitting there on the corner of a shelf in the back. Was SOOOO tempted to grab it if I had the funds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/15938920
> 
> 
> Here are a few lines from the SDV page.
> 
> 
> SDV Authorized: True
> 
> SDV Service Registration: State Pending
> 
> SDV Service Group:0
> 
> 
> If you want more info just let me know.



That's from a SARA unit. Look at he rest of the pages they should say no or 0. You only read the first page.


----------



## hookbill

Vchat was that a HD Tivo?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15939073
> 
> 
> Vchat was that a HD Tivo?



Pretty sure. This is the one I saw specifically: http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vide...-32511935.html


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15938984
> 
> 
> Exactly. Like I said, ODN has the 'hardware' and 'software' diag screens separated. Probably more related to the fact that you have the universal Java code that Navigator is written in and the OCAP Java VM interacts directly with the box hardware. So the 'hardware' diag screen that you get through the down button on the front of the box is fed by OCAP while the screen via the remote is fed by Navigator. But for the MDN boxes which don't have OCAP but have the Navigator code interacting directly with the hardware, everything is consolidated into one chunk.
> 
> 
> On a side note, went to the local Circuit City here in Niles to see what they had left (boy are they CLEANED OUT. Almost looks like the place was robbed.). Had a Tivo HD for $150 sitting there on the corner of a shelf in the back. Was SOOOO tempted to grab it if I had the funds.



The front of the box does NOTHING!!! I tried pushing all the buttons, nothing happened. Well, except now my TV is set to hideous stretch and the resolution light says "480i", instead of the 1080i the box is ALWAYS set to.


I had to set it back to 1080i. Wow, 480i output looks terrible!! It looks best set to 720p or 1080i.


----------



## Vchat20

Do you have the HDC or HD box? Like I said, the front panel diag bit I think only works on the HDC boxes. Just press both the volume up and volume down buttons on the front of the box simultaneously. Certain segments of the character display may disappear (this is good). Hold it till the mail light comes on. Let go of those two buttons then press the down/channel down button on the front of the box. Should work. If not, you must have a really whacked out box. Has worked for me every time on my 8300HDC through all known updates.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15938999
> 
> 
> That's from a SARA unit. Look at he rest of the pages they should say no or 0. You only read the first page.



That's good news. SDV might finally be ready to go in SARA areas. And it's almost March. We might make that march date afterall. Maybe the JASS-HOLE spoke the truth after all!


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15938999
> 
> 
> That's from a SARA unit. Look at he rest of the pages they should say no or 0. You only read the first page.



Yes there were 0 and not available. Can't check now because the wife is watching H&G.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15939118
> 
> 
> Do you have the HDC or HD box? Like I said, the front panel diag bit I think only works on the HDC boxes. Just press both the volume up and volume down buttons on the front of the box simultaneously. Certain segments of the character display may disappear (this is good). Hold it till the mail light comes on. Let go of those two buttons then press the down/channel down button on the front of the box. Should work. If not, you must have a really whacked out box. Has worked for me every time on my 8300HDC through all known updates.



HDC.


I was able to get the different screen. Hold down Vol +/-. When the envelope light flashes, press Select.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15939123
> 
> 
> That's good news. SDV might finally be ready to go in SARA areas. And it's almost March. We might make that march date afterall. Maybe the JASS-HOLE spoke the truth after all!



No its not good news. This is the way its always been. Don't get excited all other pages have no data. There has been no change.


If anything the good news is the arrival of the tuner adapters. That's a positive indicator.


----------



## Vchat20

Exactly. If anyone is thinking that they are going to do ANYTHING with SARA aside from chucking it into the bit-bucket, you are sorely mistaken. I have said it all along: TWC's primary focus at least here in our area is to unify everyone onto a single system. And when you are dealing with such a wide demographic of customers, they also have to take the set-top UI into account. Anyone who has dealt with joe-schmoe consumer knows exactly how big of help it can be to have a unified interface to walk people through. Navigator is their focus. They're going to have everyone including SARA people moved to it and I'll bet anyone here that it's going to be sooner rather than later. May not be before SDV is finished and additional channels start creeping in, but it'll definitely be soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15939796
> 
> 
> Exactly. If anyone is thinking that they are going to do ANYTHING with SARA aside from chucking it into the bit-bucket, you are sorely mistaken. I have said it all along: TWC's primary focus at least here in our area is to unify everyone onto a single system. And when you are dealing with such a wide demographic of customers, they also have to take the set-top UI into account. Anyone who has dealt with joe-schmoe consumer knows exactly how big of help it can be to have a unified interface to walk people through. Navigator is their focus. They're going to have everyone including SARA people moved to it and I'll bet anyone here that it's going to be sooner rather than later. May not be before SDV is finished and additional channels start creeping in, but it'll definitely be soon.



You make sense with the one system theory. There has to be a reason why they haven't done it yet. Passport was converted quickly. Not just in our area other areas as well. But SARA. That's a different ballgame. Jascoe said there was an issue with the systems. I am convinced that difference lies soley with the inability to safely convert SARA.


Again. I ask show me anywhere that SARA was converted.


----------



## grantmc

I live in Avon, and wdnt to the TWC office in North Olmsted to pick up a 8300HD box. I asked if they had any with Navigator software, and the lady replied that only SARA works in our area, and she thinks that Navigator may only be coming in about 6 months







I am not sure how much technical insight she has, but I was not encouraged.......


----------



## Vchat20

I'm not saying it has, but it will. The big question is when? You are right. They probably haven't found a way to safely convert it over yet or else it would have been off those boxes just as quick as Passport was. But it doesn't mean it's not possible. And at this point they really have 3 choices:


1) Find a way to safely convert SARA to Navigator.

2) Leave SARA and live with it.

3) Do an en masse box replacement with boxes that are pre-loaded with Navigator (more than likely the 8300HDC)


2 is obviously out of the question. 3 would be damn near impossible and a logistics/PR nightmare, though a remote possibility as an absolute last resort. 1 is really their only choice.


Like I said, the ultimate question for all of this is WHEN. We all know what TWC is up to and what their real plans are. But it's a guessing game as to when it's all gonna get done. It's why we have these bets going on, right?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/15939980
> 
> 
> I live in Avon, and wdnt to the TWC office in North Olmsted to pick up a 8300HD box. I asked if they had any with Navigator software, and the lady replied that only SARA works in our area, and she thinks that Navigator may only be coming in about 6 months
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure how much technical insight she has, but I was not encouraged.......



Generally CSRs and 'Payment Center' reps have very little knowledge of the technical side of things going on. I wouldn't really trust that info too much.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15939952
> 
> 
> You make sense with the one system theory. There has to be a reason why they haven't done it yet. Passport was converted quickly. Not just in our area other areas as well. But SARA. That's a different ballgame. Jascoe said there was an issue with the systems. I am convinced that difference lies soley with the inability to safely convert SARA.
> 
> 
> Again. I ask show me anywhere that SARA was converted.



It is not an issue. The reason why Passport was changed is simple, IT'S CRAP!! They cannot do the things they want to do with it. SARA is the superior system, as it is capable of TWC's add ons, like Start Over and SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15939982
> 
> 
> I'm not saying it has, but it will. The big question is when? You are right. They probably haven't found a way to safely convert it over yet or else it would have been off those boxes just as quick as Passport was. But it doesn't mean it's not possible. And at this point they really have 3 choices:
> 
> 
> 1) Find a way to safely convert SARA to Navigator.
> 
> 2) Leave SARA and live with it.
> 
> 3) Do an en masse box replacement with boxes that are pre-loaded with Navigator (more than likely the 8300HDC)
> 
> 
> 2 is obviously out of the question. 3 would be damn near impossible and a logistics/PR nightmare, though a remote possibility as an absolute last resort. 1 is really their only choice.
> 
> 
> Like I said, the ultimate question for all of this is WHEN. We all know what TWC is up to and what their real plans are. But it's a guessing game as to when it's all gonna get done. It's why we have these bets going on, right?



No, 2 is NOT out of the question. 2 is what TWC has done in areas like NC. Anywhere that had Passport got Navigator and SARA areas remained the same. Then, both areas got SDV and new HD channels. They also have features like Start Over, Enhanced TV and Caller ID. On both SARA and Navigator.


Really, if anything here at all is unnecessary, it is Navigator. SARA can do all the things Navigator can do. They _could_ use the SARA interface everywhere with StartOver and Enhanced TV as an add-on. I really wish they would have gone that route.


----------



## Vchat20

Uhhh. I call bullsh*t. Passport is PERFECTLY capable of SDV, Startover, and plenty of other addons. I dunno what you're smoking but it is at the very least light years ahead of SARA and Navigator combined. Passport had the Caller ID app, a bill payment app. A long time ago TWC even had advertised an ebay and 'Mosaic' app for Passport.


nickdawg, your ideals DO NOT line up with TWC's business. EVER. And if you'd actually read everything going on, you'd realize that.


Tell me this much: If both SARA and Passport are capable of SDV, Startover, and everything else TWC wants to implement. WHY do we have Navigator then? And don't give me the BS that Passport is not capable because it IS. Do some friggin' research. TWC wants a unified set-top system and plant network. Not to even bring in the fact that has been stated time and time again that with SARA and Passport, TWC has to outsource to their respective owners for updates and wait ages for those updates to get to them. With Navigator, all this work is done in-house and is much easier to control and get updates out quicker.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15940003
> 
> 
> Generally CSRs and 'Payment Center' reps have very little knowledge of the technical side of things going on. I wouldn't really trust that info too much.



Last week I went to the local TWC place to pay the bill. Decided I would wait and see a counter person. When I asked her if any new HD channels were coming(I already knew thanks to their website) she said "I haven't heard anything about new HD". So their website knows more than their employees!!


Hookdog, consider yourself lucky you know one person that has a brain at TWC.


----------



## nickdawg

Also something interesting, I pulled up that "new menu" with vot+/- channel ^ and I found something interesting under XAIT INFORMATION.


17155 0 0034_4303_TWC_SARA_TO_ODN_1_0_4


Also:


25210 0 034_627A_TWC_ODN_3_1_0_11

25131 0 034_622B_TWC_ODN_2_4_10_11


There appears to be something about SARA to ODN as well as two different listings of ODN. 2_4_10_11 is the current verison and I believe the new version is supposed to be 3-something. I wonder what that is about??


----------



## Vchat20

Go back a number of pages. This is something that I have found myself and has started this huge discussion in the first place primarily with hookbill. Like I said, SARA /IS/ going to Navigator. ****, I'll bet my life savings on it. Just don't know when.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15923088
> 
> 
> And while I'm here, WTF?? Am I the only person here who watches Lost and Life on Mars? I posted a comment about the problems on WEWHD, and nobody says anything. I thought Lost was more popular than that!



Wanted to actually watch Lost before I responded....










Sat through the entire episode tonight (including commercials), and didn't see anything wrong with it. No breakups, no green flashes, nothing out of the ordinary.


----------



## nickdawg

I remember that. That's why I posted it. You said something about SARA to ODN, which I didn't see before discovering this "new" menu. Now I see it too.


I have no doubt that TWC will change SARA _one day_, but I'm *highly* doubtful that day will be any time soon. And certainly not before SDV and new HD programming. Like I said, SARA can run all the extras Navigator can. As long as they can get away with not doing a time consuming change, TWC will.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15940240
> 
> 
> Wanted to actually watch Lost before I responded....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sat through the entire episode tonight (including commercials), and didn't see anything wrong with it. No breakups, no green flashes, nothing out of the ordinary.



IIRC, you have a Tivo, right?


Have you noticed anything different with channels over the past few weeks? TWC started moving channels to SDV. Right now, STOHD, HDNet/HDnet Movies are SDV. Also, Chiller was added(in SD) on channel 223 and it is SDV as well. G4 on 329 is also SDV. I don't know if you get any of the foreign/sports package channels, but they are also all SDV.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15940264
> 
> 
> IIRC, you have a Tivo, right?
> 
> 
> Have you noticed anything different with channels over the past few weeks? TWC started moving channels to SDV. Right now, STOHD, HDNet/HDnet Movies are SDV. Also, Chiller was added(in SD) on channel 223 and it is SDV as well. G4 on 329 is also SDV. I don't know if you get any of the foreign/sports package channels, but they are also all SDV.



Correct - Tivo HD. I don't get any of the foreign channels or extra sports packages, but I do have most of the premium movie channels. A decent chunk of them (West coast feeds, mostly) are no longer working on the Tivo - guessing these are now SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/15940300
> 
> 
> Correct - Tivo HD. I don't get any of the foreign channels or extra sports packages, but I do have most of the premium movie channels. A decent chunk of them (West coast feeds, mostly) are no longer working on the Tivo - guessing these are now SDV.



Which ones? I only get HBO and from the diganostics screen it is clear they are NON SDV, even the west coast channels. Also, Showtime, Cinemax and STARZ do not have west coast feeds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15940116
> 
> 
> Go back a number of pages. This is something that I have found myself and has started this huge discussion in the first place primarily with hookbill. Like I said, SARA /IS/ going to Navigator. ****, I'll bet my life savings on it. Just don't know when.



Wow, lots of conversation on this after i went to sleep.


I think there are a couple different things that we have to look at here. The first thing is the HD coming in 2 weeks, hopefully.


I don't think it's that much extra that it requires SDV. So I believe we will probably see those channels at least by 4/1. SDV? That's another ball game entirely.


Now we know that Passport was capable of SDV as is SARA. Vchat20's arguement about a unified TW makes sense. And having control of what your system can and can't do technology wise makes sense as well. That's what Murdock did over at D* when he gave TiVo the boot (which the new owners found out only pissed people off - that why they have a new agreement with TiVo now).


In a sense Passport and SARA, bad as they both are, seem to be better then Navigator. However TW wants just one system and they want to own it. So it makes perfect sense that they go with Navigator. The problem, as I stated so many times is SARA otherwise it would have happened ages ago.


Now I don't know what exactly that problem is. If they install Navigator is that going to wipe other peoples DVR's? Man, if you've gotta eSATA hooked up to that thing and a months load of programming that's going to piss off a lot of folks.


Or is it another problem? Is it that they can't do it without causing the whole machine to go belly up? That would mean a huge, huge switch out to Navigator HDC and I know they don't want to go there. And don't give me the argument about doing it with Passport and no problem, I say apples and oranges.


We will see the new channels added on, but who knows about the SDV thing? All I know it is definitely not around the majority of ex Adelphia land. Those new HD channels should be arriving as anticipated, Joann even told me she was looking forward to Discovery HD. But all the rest of the SDV issue is speculation.


I doubt if even Steve Fry knows the answer. Somebody must, maybe Joann does and she ain't talking. I don't get that feeling really, she seems just as mystified by this as we are. Time will tell, and only time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15941109
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's that much extra that it requires SDV. So I believe we will probably see those channels at least by 4/1. SDV? That's another ball game entirely.









































What? You mean USA, SCIFI, Discovery... coming by 4/1? Or some other entirely different channels?


The channels listed for the 3/15 date will be here ON 3/15. Just like when Chiller was scheduled for 2/18, it arrived ON 2/18. I highly doubt that date is up in the air.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15943765
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What? You mean USA, SCIFI, Discovery... coming by 4/1? Or some other entirely different channels?
> 
> 
> The channels listed for the 3/15 date will be here ON 3/15. Just like when Chiller was scheduled for 2/18, it arrived ON 2/18. I highly doubt that date is up in the air.


*On or after*, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.


What part of that did you not understand? I'm confident no later then 4/1. I wouldn't bet the house it happens on 3/15.


----------



## hookbill

*Where do you see Chiller being added 2/18? Here's the whole notice:
*


Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.




WBNX, WAOH, WOHZ, WIVM, WYFX HD, WTRF, Lifeskool On Demand, Great American Country, GSN, BBC America On Demand, FSN Pittsburgh, Inspirational Life, Outdoor Channel, NBA TV, E!, Logo, ShopNBC, Style, Weather Channel, HD Net, HD Net Movies.



*Primetime On Demand will be added to the line-up on, or after, February 18, 2009.* On 3/5/09 National Geographic On Demand will cease to exist as a separate channel. Its programming will move to News & World On Demand. On or after, March 15, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.


*WQLN/PBS/54 will be added as a Digital Access channel 0n 2/18/09 in some areas.* On 3/31/09, WDLI/TBN/17 will be added to Basic Service in these same areas.



Where it is carried, MoviePlex will be dropped from the Expanded Basic line-up on, or after 3/15/09. At that same time, RetroPlex will be added to the line-up on the Movie Tier.




The following changes will take place on, or after, 3/15/09: In the Cadiz, Hopedale, Jewett, and Scio systems, MoviePlex will be dropped from the Expanded Basic Line-up. In Cadiz, RetroPlex will be added to Digital Basic.



** Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.*


Look at all the wiggle room they left. And nowhere did it say Chiller by 2/18.


You have quite an imagination, nickdawg.


----------



## nickdawg

They have changed that page since 2/18. Before that it said the usual "on or after" February 18, 2009 CNBC World will be dropped from digital service and Chiller will be added.


It said "on or after" and the channel was there on 2/18, A little "after" for cable card viewers.


Primetime On Demand. It also showed up when they said it would. A little later for some, but that's not the point.


Sometimes I think you say these things on purpose, just to get a response. Just to get me going!


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15932317
> 
> 
> No. I'm mostly referring to some of the other weekday afternoon reruns like Yes Dear, Just Shoot Me, Home Improvement. Shows that I doubt were neither shot in 16:9 nor would they want to bother transferring them to HD.



Some of those (Yes Dear, Just Shoot Me) were originally in HD in first run network showings, I don't know if TBS has HD versions.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/15944127
> 
> 
> Some of those (Yes Dear, Just Shoot Me) were originally in HD in first run network showings, I don't know if TBS has HD versions.



Yes Dear might have been HD since it was on CBS from 2000-2006. And most of those shows(Raymond, Becker, King Of Queens) were HD back then. I don't think TBS shows the HD versions, as I've seen that King Of Queens is stretched.


Just Shoot Me was on NBC from 1997-2003, I don't think that one was HD. Even Will & Grace was not HD when it ended in 2006.


TBS still has a pretty small HD sitcom lineup: Seinfeld, Raymond, The Office(tuesdays) and original programming.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15944022
> 
> 
> They have changed that page since 2/18. Before that it said the usual "on or after" February 18, 2009 CNBC World will be dropped from digital service and Chiller will be added.
> 
> 
> It said "on or after" and the channel was there on 2/18, A little "after" for cable card viewers.



Sure it did nickdawg! I believe that like I believe in Santa Clause. TW is not, repeat, not known for updating their web sites. Chiller still isn't even listed on their channel guide.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15944022
> 
> 
> Sometimes I think you say these things on purpose, just to get a response. Just to get me going!



I have no idea what gets you going. Sometimes I think I do but then you don't respond. That's usually when your wrong which happens quite a bit.


















I'm just really pessimistic when it comes to cable companies, and I admit I may be a little harder on TW then I should be. Look at all the loop holes they put in that statement. You could drive a Mac Truck through them.


Here's what I think happened. We had a forum member mention that a CSR rep told him that day that Chiller was going to be available on HD. You hit the ceiling, remember that? I think that since that time you got it in your head that it said it was adding Chiller.


Matter of fact, I know that's what happened. Take a look here . This is the original post. No mention of Chiller!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15945114
> 
> 
> Sure it did nickdawg! I believe that like I believe in Santa Clause. TW is not, repeat, not known for updating their web sites. Chiller still isn't even listed on their channel guide.



Yes it is. I looked at both of my guides, both have the channel and program data.



> Quote:
> I have no idea what gets you going. Sometimes I think I do but then you don't respond. That's usually when your wrong which happens quite a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just really pessimistic when it comes to cable companies, and I admit I may be a little harder on TW then I should be. Look at all the loop holes they put in that statement. You could drive a Mac Truck through them.
> 
> 
> Here's what I think happened. We had a forum member mention that a CSR rep told him that day that Chiller was going to be available on HD. You hit the ceiling, remember that? I think that since that time you got it in your head that it said it was adding Chiller.
> 
> 
> Matter of fact, I know that's what happened. Take a look here . This is the original post. No mention of Chiller!!!



On 2/17/09, CNBC World will be dropped from the line-up, and replaced with *Chiller*.


Umm, I see a mention of Chiller right there. How is that NOT mentioning Chiller when they say CNBC world is being replaced with Chiller? On 2/17. So I was one day off.


I never understand that. You do want new HD, right? But you seem to be talking against TWC and "that's not going to happen". Why not? They said they were replacing CNBC World with Chiller on 2/17, and they replaced CBNC World with Chiller on 2/17.


----------



## hookbill

You altered that post!







. I don't know how I missed it.


I'm telling you 223 is not on the guide. Look at City of Cleveland.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15945140
> 
> 
> I never understand that. You do want new HD, right? But you seem to be talking against TWC and "that's not going to happen". Why not? They said they were replacing CNBC World with Chiller on 2/17, and they replaced CBNC World with Chiller on 2/17.



Maybe he's just trying to be realistic and not blissfully ignorant?







Hell, I would love to own a Lamborghini but I know I'll never own one in my lifetime. Am I being hypocritical? No, just realistic.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15945282
> 
> 
> You altered that post!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't know how I missed it.
> 
> 
> I'm telling you 223 is not on the guide. Look at City of Cleveland.



How do I go about doing that? I don't live in the City of Cleveland!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15945313
> 
> 
> Maybe he's just trying to be realistic and not blissfully ignorant?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I would love to own a Lamborghini but I know I'll never own one in my lifetime. Am I being hypocritical? No, just realistic.



Well, it keeps me going and makes me happy now that it is March. Tomorrow morning, I can cross off the calendar and have on 13 days until new HD!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15945321
> 
> 
> How do I go about doing that? I don't live in the City of Cleveland!



You go to the guide, pick Geauga County and choose Bainbridge. That's where I live.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15945367
> 
> 
> You go to the guide, pick Geauga County and choose Bainbridge. That's where I live.



Ohhhh, the Channel Guides at twcguide.


Akron:

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf 


Bainbridge:

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU022008.pdf 


Cleveland:

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf 


Nobody has it listed yet.


----------



## hookbill

I think we will find out on 3/15 won't we?


----------



## Vchat20

Hey. If I wake up 3/15 and see Discovery HD, I'll be extremely happy. Mythbusters is starting the new season soon.










But yes, we'll wait and see.


----------



## hookbill

I just hate to see someone get their hopes up only to be shot down by evil cable.


----------



## ErieMarty

This was posted on the Erie, PA Forum about new HD channels being added by Time Waner NE Ohio/NW PA..



"We will be adding the following HD channels in late March -

Discovery

USA

Sci Fi

Disney

Palladis (MTV music video programming)


Tentatively in late April:

Bravo

CNBC

TLC

Animal Planet

ABC Family

ESPN News

MLB"


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15945609
> 
> 
> Hey. If I wake up 3/15 and see Discovery HD, I'll be extremely happy. Mythbusters is starting the new season soon.



I'm interested in seeing what those small, less expensive HD cameras look like on the air. I've caught what looks like a mix of 3-chip and single-chip HD cameras being used, probably something like the Panasonic HVX series among others. HD is becoming far less expensive to produce than it used to be, so we're seeing a plethora of small handheld cameras being used on remotes.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/15953832
> 
> 
> I'm interested in seeing what those small, less expensive HD cameras look like on the air. I've caught what looks like a mix of 3-chip and single-chip HD cameras being used, probably something like the Panasonic HVX series among others. HD is becoming far less expensive to produce than it used to be, so we're seeing a plethora of small handheld cameras being used on remotes.



Well, my brother in Columbus has Discovery HD and a native 1920x1080 50" plasma and I have watched a number of episodes of both Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs in segments where those types of cameras have been used (more specifically the consumer level AVCHD flash based cameras in select shots on Dirty Jobs) and it doesn't look all that bad really. Not as sharp as the more high end cameras, but surprisingly decent. But considering it's AVC mpeg4 based, that's to be expected.


----------



## paule123

WVIZ is on it's fundraising kick again, and the geniuses there have preempted the intelligent conversation of Charlie Rose in exchange for Suze Orman's infomercial "Women & Money" and "Finding Your Own True Love with Dr. Diana". My god. :shudder:


Fortunately we have a PBS alternative. I'm watching Charlie Rose on WEAO instead.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15955677
> 
> 
> Fortunately we have a PBS alternative. I'm watching Charlie Rose on WEAO instead.



Is it shown correctly or is it in WNEO's super special "Expando Vision"?


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## hookbill

I was just looking at nickdawgs location. You know if that merge hadn't occurred you would have had SDV by now and probably all the channels Columbus has.


I'll bet you feel anamosity towards ex Adelphia because they are holding youu back from getting your SDV and HD lineups. Hence all the frequent hostility in your posts. But keep in mind Navigator was a piece of garbage TW was going to send to you anyway. That had nothing to do with the Adelphia acquisition. Also keep in mind that some people, myself in particular, do take a certain amount of perverted joy in watching you got stir crazy over all of these matters that you can't control.


Have a nice day nickdawg.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15956528
> 
> 
> I was just looking at nickdawgs location. You know if that merge hadn't occurred you would have had SDV by now and probably all the channels Columbus has.
> 
> 
> I'll bet you feel anamosity towards ex Adelphia because they are holding youu back from getting your SDV and HD lineups. Hence all the frequent hostility in your posts. But keep in mind Navigator was a piece of garbage TW was going to send to you anyway. That had nothing to do with the Adelphia acquisition. Also keep in mind that some people, myself in particular, do take a certain amount of perverted joy in watching you got stir crazy over all of these matters that you can't control.
> 
> 
> Have a nice day nickdawg.



That was odd.


And hells yeah I feel animosity. It's not about Navigator. Notice my new line "I WANT ODN 3". ODN 3 is the newer, updated version of Navigator for OCAP boxes. From what I've heard it is supposed to be far superior to the current version. I've made my peace with Navigator, as sooner or later EVERYONE will get it. Even SARA areas if/when the 'new' DVRs are deployed.


My anger is not so much at the customers, we're all the same, a cheap, pathetic company dragging us around by the balls. It's all you, TWC. I disagree with their policy and their suit, aka the JASS-HOLE. I disagree with this "one world, unified system". They're not the same!! Some areas still have VOD on channel 1, some areas have individual channels. Why they hell aren't they waiting to add VOD channels until "all systems are the same"?

















What the JASS-HOLE is forgetting as that there are many people in the original TWC area who have been customers for years. Now I'm kinda young so I don't really apply to that situation as much. But my parents have had cable since the 80s. I'm sure many mature members here have also been long-time TWC subscribers in the original areas. All these years we have been paying their salaries. We have been paying to fund these upgrades. And what do we get for all this money: A system with SDV active, except the only SDV channels are sports tier, foreign language and the horror movie version of TV Land. Oh yeah, and the Indians channel HD Net and HD Net Movies. WHOOPEE!!!! WE pay all this money for this crappy service, expecting new HD channels. They claim to "not have the capacity". Bull F***ing S***.


At least they are throwing us a bone with a few new channels on March 15. That's only 12 days away.










But remember, this dawg is a Pitbull. Once the "march 15 distraction" wears off, I'll be back, barking louder than before!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15960255
> 
> 
> That was odd.
> 
> 
> And hells yeah I feel animosity. It's not about Navigator. Notice my new line "I WANT ODN 3". ODN 3 is the newer, updated version of Navigator for OCAP boxes. From what I've heard it is supposed to be far superior to the current version. I've made my peace with Navigator, as sooner or later EVERYONE will get it. Even SARA areas if/when the 'new' DVRs are deployed.
> 
> 
> My anger is not so much at the customers, we're all the same, a cheap, pathetic company dragging us around by the balls. It's all you, TWC. I disagree with their policy and their suit, aka the JASS-HOLE. I disagree with this "one world, unified system". They're not the same!! Some areas still have VOD on channel 1, some areas have individual channels. Why they hell aren't they waiting to add VOD channels until "all systems are the same"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the JASS-HOLE is forgetting as that there are many people in the original TWC area who have been customers for years. Now I'm kinda young so I don't really apply to that situation as much. But my parents have had cable since the 80s. I'm sure many mature members here have also been long-time TWC subscribers in the original areas. All these years we have been paying their salaries. We have been paying to fund these upgrades. And what do we get for all this money: A system with SDV active, except the only SDV channels are sports tier, foreign language and the horror movie version of TV Land. Oh yeah, and the Indians channel HD Net and HD Net Movies. WHOOPEE!!!! WE pay all this money for this crappy service, expecting new HD channels. They claim to "not have the capacity". Bull F***ing S***.
> 
> 
> Eventually all the PPV channels, everything will be the same.
> 
> At least they are throwing us a bone with a few new channels on March 15. That's only 12 days away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But remember, this dawg is a Pitbull. Once the "march 15 distraction" wears off, I'll be back, barking louder than before!



Heh heh heh.....I love it when a plan comes together!

















See nickdawg you are a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with TWC. One moment you love them, the next you hate them. That's why people say you keep changing your position on things all the time.


OK, enough of jerking your tail. The point is they want everybody to have all these things but they have to pull the system together to do it. It's not impossible, just difficult. And because of US (ex Adelphia) YOU have to wait, as Jascoe said.


Eventually those On Demand channels, which I don't care about anyway will be on the same channels. When they do that and somehow put SARA on Navigator that's when SDV will be deployed.


I'm starting to think Fall again.


Hey, did you see the post about the Erie People? They may have SDV before us because they are in a different state?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paule123* /forum/post/15955677
> 
> 
> WVIZ is on it's fundraising kick again, and the geniuses there have preempted the intelligent conversation of Charlie Rose in exchange for Suze Orman's infomercial "Women & Money" and "Finding Your Own True Love with Dr. Diana". My god. :shudder:
> 
> 
> Fortunately we have a PBS alternative. I'm watching Charlie Rose on WEAO instead.



PBS?? What's that... oh yeah I have to watch that in analog... (sipping from my WVIZ coffee mug)










You have a PBS alternative, I don't


----------



## Bismarck440

Where's THIS!??? I'll be watching that banner I suspect till August?


& who's this Sara chick you guys keep talking about!?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15960342
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, did you see the post about the Erie People? They may have SDV before us because they are in a different state?



They don't have SDV "before us" because I have SDV right now. They also can't have any more channels because they are part of TWC NEO. And "that's not fair to other customers".































Or maybe the JASS-HOLE will add more channels, in areas with SDV. Erie has SDV, Akron has SDV, Canton has SDV and original TWC in Y-Town has SDV. Oh yeah, and New Philadelphia. If they try to add any channels in that SDV area, they'd have to do the same in our SDV areas.


I saw it on the Erie thread. Very doubtful though, as somebod claims it is from an email. Like TWC has been truthful about HD channels in emails or on the phone before!
























I DO believe that we wills ee 5 new channels on March 15, as it is an official press release/legal notice.


----------



## nickdawg

The Channels coming in April





















to TWC:

(from the Erie thread)


Tentatively in late April:

Bravo

CNBC

TLC

Animal Planet

ABC Family

ESPN News

MLB


I'm with Hookbill for once. I'm calling BS. Plus, I HOPE it is not true. All of those channels except for MLB I'd NEVER want to see on my lineup. They can't add F/X but they can add that crap!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15960493
> 
> 
> They don't have SDV "before us" because I have SDV right now. They also can't have any more channels because they are part of TWC NEO. And "that's not fair to other customers".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe the JASS-HOLE will add more channels, in areas with SDV. Erie has SDV, Akron has SDV, Canton has SDV and original TWC in Y-Town has SDV. Oh yeah, and New Philadelphia. If they try to add any channels in that SDV area, they'd have to do the same in our SDV areas.
> 
> 
> I saw it on the Erie thread. Very doubtful though, as somebod claims it is from an email. Like TWC has been truthful about HD channels in emails or on the phone before!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I DO believe that we wills ee 5 new channels on March 15, as it is an official press release/legal notice.



Well, you got SDV true but they are not putting it to any practical use in regards to what it's suppose to be for, and that is providing more "Quality" HD channels.


And don't forget that notice said "On or after."


Geeze, nickdawg, I just don't want to get up on 3/16 and see you with 15 posts all saying ***** TW ***** J******* ******!!!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15960523
> 
> 
> The Channels coming in April
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to TWC:
> 
> (from the Erie thread)
> 
> 
> Tentatively in late April:
> 
> Bravo
> 
> CNBC
> 
> TLC
> 
> Animal Planet
> 
> ABC Family
> 
> ESPN News
> 
> MLB
> 
> 
> I'm with Hookbill for once. I'm calling BS. Plus, I HOPE it is not true. All of those channels except for MLB I'd NEVER want to see on my lineup. They can't add F/X but they can add that crap!!



Yeah, well I saw an asterisk next to MLB and I wonder if that's MLB EXTRA INNINGS, not MLB Network.


I'm thinking about MLB Extra Innings, but if they still want 175 bucks on it they must be high. Don't they know there's a recession going on?


----------



## nickdawg

I don't think MLB Network is part of that package. But it could be...


Recently there was a "free preview" of NHL Center Ice on TWC. At the same time, NHLNET on channel 325 was also on. Usually that channel has the call cable number on screen. So I think that might be part of some package. But how douchey of TWC woud that be to put MLB in some "tier" or "package".


I hate that! Flip through the 100, 200, 300s and you'll see that some channels just do not come in. They have the "Call Cable" phone number on screen because they are part of some BS tier. That's crap, as much as we pay , ALL channels outside of PPV, premium and sports packages should be watchable.


----------



## ed1202

(Hopefully Hookbill and others with Tivo will be able to comment to this...)


Alright, here goes... A few weeks ago we got a TivoHD box and had TW install a cablecard. The install went suprisingly well, they brought out an M card and all channels came in great and all was right with the world (well, at least in my living room.)










Last weekend we moved (from East Akron to Copley-Fairlawn area) and that's when the problems began. Aside from missing an install time, the contractor-installer finally showed up Monday afternoon. While he was there, he apparently had never seen a Tivo box before and went so far as to say "is that thing legal?" Hmmm. (I was unfortunately not there for the actual install.) It was explained to him that we were using a "c-a-b-l-e-c-a-r-d". Anyway they hooked up and left.


So I get home that night, turn on the tv, and started to notice that some of the channels were missing (showing on guide, but when tuned, were blank). First thing I thought was that the new account was not permissioned properly so I call customer service. Sweet girl, first thing of course was "let me send you a signal". Alright. Now turn your Tivo and TV off. Okay. Turn it back on. Same channels missing.


"Let me send you to our cablecard department". (Which was apparantly out of the area with a different telephone number.) Next lady who asks me my zip code promptly tells me my area now has switched digital video and I'll be requiring the tuning adaptor. She said either go to TW's website to go on a waiting list or go to the office and pick one up at the counter.


I go to the office today and ask for the (golden) tuning adapter. Of course they don't have any. She said all the screen is telling her is that they are "coming soon."







So I ask, "now what do I do? I'm missing a good percentage of my channels and no way to get them because SDV has been implemented but without the proper equipment for me to see it". So she spoke to her supervisor and they came up with the plan that they'll give me an HD DVR for free for two months and by that time the tuning adaptor "should" be available.


She also did admit she's getting more and more questions from Tivo customers lately...


It's been a fun past couple of days.


----------



## nickdawg

Don't be angry at all. The fact your area has SDV is a GOOD THING. SDV will (eventually) mean more HDTV channels will be added to the lineup.


----------



## ed1202

Oh I know in the end it's a good thing. It's just getting there is the hard part, AND they gave me a 8300 HDC. The same crappy box I got rid of to get Tivo. Oh well...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15960769
> 
> 
> (Hopefully Hookbill and others with Tivo will be able to comment to this...)
> 
> 
> Alright, here goes... A few weeks ago we got a TivoHD box and had TW install a cablecard. The install went suprisingly well, they brought out an M card and all channels came in great and all was right with the world (well, at least in my living room.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last weekend we moved (from East Akron to Copley-Fairlawn area) and that's when the problems began. Aside from missing an install time, the contractor-installer finally showed up Monday afternoon. While he was there, he apparently had never seen a Tivo box before and went so far as to say "is that thing legal?" Hmmm. (I was unfortunately not there for the actual install.) It was explained to him that we were using a "c-a-b-l-e-c-a-r-d". Anyway they hooked up and left.
> 
> 
> So I get home that night, turn on the tv, and started to notice that some of the channels were missing (showing on guide, but when tuned, were blank). First thing I thought was that the new account was not permissioned properly so I call customer service. Sweet girl, first thing of course was "let me send you a signal". Alright. Now turn your Tivo and TV off. Okay. Turn it back on. Same channels missing.
> 
> 
> "Let me send you to our cablecard department". (Which was apparantly out of the area with a different telephone number.) Next lady who asks me my zip code promptly tells me my area now has switched digital video and I'll be requiring the tuning adaptor. She said either go to TW's website to go on a waiting list or go to the office and pick one up at the counter.
> 
> 
> I go to the office today and ask for the (golden) tuning adapter. Of course they don't have any. She said all the screen is telling her is that they are "coming soon."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I ask, "now what do I do? I'm missing a good percentage of my channels and no way to get them because SDV has been implemented but without the proper equipment for me to see it". So she spoke to her supervisor and they came up with the plan that they'll give me an HD DVR for free for two months and by that time the tuning adaptor "should" be available.
> 
> 
> She also did admit she's getting more and more questions from Tivo customers lately...
> 
> 
> It's been a fun past couple of days.



Well the good news is that TW does have the tuning adapters and they should be handing them out soon.


I posted about this a little while back. I got a call from a contact I have in head end on another issue I was having and she told me the tuning adapters had arrived, and were in the warehouse. Distribution should start after the techs get training.


You just had a bad tech. Most of them know about TiVo now. He probably made a call while he was at your house otherwise he wouldn't have been able to start the unit.


The bad news is for you SDV has already started in your area and indeed your choices are limited at this point. My suggestion is that you go to your local office in person and have them look into it. Let them know that you know for a fact that they have arrived in the warehouse. They should at least look into it for you and tell you if they can give you one or give you a time frame when you should get it.


----------



## nickdawg

What channels are you missing? The only channels currently on SDV that everyone gets are:


185-194 Shopping channels

223 Chiller

329-G4

330-Outdoor channel

435-STO HD

471-HD Net

472-HD Net Movies


The rest of the SDV channels are foreign language and sports tier channels in the 700s. That's hardly a "good percentage".


Do you subscribe to any sports channels in the 700s? If you do, I'd try to get a refund for that.


----------



## ed1202

Hookbill, I might try that. I work down the street from the North Canton office. I would think out of ALL of offices _that_ warehouse would have them. Interesting to know they are in their hands. That's promising...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15961482
> 
> 
> What channels are you missing? The only channels currently on SDV that everyone gets are:
> 
> 
> 185-194 Shopping channels
> 
> 223 Chiller
> 
> 329-G4
> 
> 330-Outdoor channel
> 
> 435-STO HD
> 
> 471-HD Net
> 
> 472-HD Net Movies
> 
> 
> The rest of the SDV channels are foreign language and sports tier channels in the 700s. That's hardly a "good percentage".
> 
> 
> Do you subscribe to any sports channels in the 700s? If you do, I'd try to get a refund for that.



Oh, that's less channels then what I thought at this point. Kind of indicates at least to me that they are testing live more then implementation.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15961499
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I might try that. I work down the street from the North Canton office. I would think out of ALL of offices _that_ warehouse would have them. Interesting to know they are in their hands. That's promising...



Well, keep in mind what I find out more or less is the area in ex Adelphia land. I can't say for certain they are in your area.


You would think they should be since they are already using SDV. There is also a link you can go to to request a tuning adapter, I think nickdawg knows where that is but personally I doubt it will get one to you any faster.


The squeaky wheel gets greased!


----------



## ed1202

Nickdawg, I don't recall specifics, but the missing channels were scattered through the 100's, 200's, 300's and 400's. I subscribe to the digital package and the basic level HD tier. No extra pays. I'll check and get you a full list of MIA's when I get home tonight. Thanks...


----------



## nickdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ed1202* 
Nickdawg, I don't recall specifics, but the missing channels were scattered through the 100's, 200's, 300's and 400's. I subscribe to the digital package and the basic level HD tier. No extra pays. I'll check and get you a full list of MIA's when I get home tonight. Thanks...
If you're missing more that that, something else might be wrong. Also, how does Tivo handle "unsubscribed" channels? Is there any kind of message or just a blank screen?


Some of those missing channels may be ones you don't subscribe to. Not that many channels are on SDV. It's been that way since they began the project. See the attached list of SDV channels. The ones with the * are currently SDV.

 

SDV-3-3-09.txt 1.490234375k . file


----------



## nickdawg

Here's the form for the FREE







Tuning Adapter.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north.../ordersdv.html 


I don't think these things should be free. More like $29.95!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15961623
> 
> 
> If you're missing more that that, something else might be wrong. Also, how does Tivo handle "unsubscribed" channels? Is there any kind of message or just a blank screen?
> 
> 
> Some of those missing channels may be ones you don't subscribe to. Not that many channels are on SDV. It's been that way since they began the project. See the attached list of SDV channels. The ones with the * are currently SDV.



Looking at that list I see quite a few channels that I believe are analog in our area. Analog channels would not be subject to SDV since well, they are not digital.










I know you have all digital in your area 'dawg, are any of those channels mirror and if they are, wouldn't they be SDV too?


185 Access TV*

186 Shopping*

187 Cable Response TV*

188 Gems TV*

189 America's Auction Network*

190 Hollywood Celebrity Products*

191 Celebrity Shopping*

192 TV Superstore*

193 The Jewelry Channel*

194 Shoping*

281 Sundance

282 Flix*

290 Encore*

291 Encore Love*

292 Encore Mysteries*

293 Encore Drama*

294 Encore WAM!*

295 Encore Westerns*

296 Encore Action*

319 FCS Atlantic*

320 FCS Central*

321 FCS Pacific*

322 College Sports TV*

324 NHL Network*

325 NBA TV*

327 Tennis Channel

328 Fuel TV*

329 G4*

330 Outdoor Channel*

350 CNN

351 Headline News

352 Fox News

354 MSNBC

355 CNBC

370 Weather Channel

385 EWTN

399 TWC Infomercials

435 STOHD*

436 FSN HD

470 Universal HD

471 HDNet*

472 HDNet Movies*

473 Mojo

610 HBO W

611 HBO2 W

612 HBO Signature W

613 HBO Family W

614 HBO Comedy W

615 HBO Zone W

710 HD PPV Events*

741-754 NHL Center Ice/MLB*

761-770 NBA/MLS Sport Packages*

781-786 ESPN GamePlan / Full Court*

801 GalaVision*

805 mun2*

806 Canal Sur*

807 Cnn en Espanol*

808 History en Espanol*

809 Discover en Espanol*

810 La Familia*

811 Toon Disney en Espanol*

812 Boomerang en Espanol*

813 ESPN Deportes*

814 Fox Sports en Espanol*

815 MTV Tr3s*

816 CineLatino*

850 International MOD

851 ART Arabic*

852 RAI International*

853 TV Asia*

854 DW TV

855 Zee TV

857 Filipino Channel

858 TV5Monde

859 TV Japan

860 TV Russia


The only thing that would concern me on that list is STOHD without a tuner adapter. Cutting off HD baseball would get me p.o.'d.


And as far as your thoughts on "cost" it's none of your concern. FCC said they have to distribute them and TW, being customer friendly in this rare case is distributing them freely.


We thought they would charge us originally around 8 bucks a month.


----------



## hookbill

What are the asterisks for? Some of these channels on steroids?


----------



## nickdawg

The news channels that are "mirror" channels are still NON SDV. I hope they stay that way too. It was a really stupid move to put those channels on SDV.


As far as the adapters, I think TWC should charge for them. Luckily they already charge for cable cards. But it would be nice for tuning adapters too!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15961797
> 
> 
> What are the asterisks for? Some of these channels on steroids?



No, all the ones with asterisks are currently in SDv. The ones without asterisks are not on SDV, but were originally announde that they were going SDV.


We need some steroids for TWC NEO. Maybe it would help give them the "capacity" to add channels.


----------



## hookbill

You see TW is not doing their customers any favor by putting some of those channels on SDV without distributing the tuner adapter. What if you are a hockey or NBA fan and you subscribed for the season. Well now you're sol because they put them on SDV and I'll bet you they will not refund the money. If that's the case that just isn't right.


And why do you want to charge for something that we pay for anyway and they simply are taking away our ability to receive the channel. They should give those tuning adapters away.


You're evil, nickdawg.


----------



## nickdawg

..Because I don't think I should have to pay for THEIR adapters. These people can spend HUNDREDS on equipment and extra service, then whine about having to pay $8?







Normally I'm not a supporter of big business, but I am in this case. If I have to pay TWC tons for their $H!TTY service, so does everyone else!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15962020
> 
> 
> ..Because I don't think I should have to pay for THEIR adapters. These people can spend HUNDREDS on equipment and extra service, then whine about having to pay $8?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally I'm not a supporter of big business, but I am in this case. If I have to pay TWC tons for their $H!TTY service, so does everyone else!!



FYI: They get their 28 bucks for install of cable card. I didn't pay because I complained to Fry. Feel better now? G)


----------



## Inundated

Great, another usual melange of guessing, speculation and sniping about SDV, backed by nearly no facts, with an impatient person using profanity to refer to people.


What fun!


Ah, just the usual here.


----------



## nickdawg

After tonight, only one more week of Dirty Jobs in analog.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15960769
> 
> 
> Last weekend we moved (from East Akron to Copley-Fairlawn area) and that's when the problems began.



Hmm. Where in that area? Do you know if you're in the former Adelphia area or in the "legacy" TWC area?


I think Fairlawn is the latter, and Copley is the former...


You can quickly tell by seeing what's on analog channel 2...if it's WVIZ, you're ex-Adelphia. If it's WKYC, you're legacy TWC...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/15962470
> 
> 
> Great, another usual melange of guessing, speculation and sniping about SDV, backed by nearly no facts, with an impatient person using profanity to refer to people.
> 
> 
> What fun!
> 
> 
> Ah, just the usual here.



You show a smile but I sense a frown.


Our discussion, while it does have the usual banter and nickdawgs disregard for others feelings, hasn't been based upon ignorance of SDV.


Nickdawg is actually giving us some useful info showing us those channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15962656
> 
> 
> Nickdawg is actually giving us some useful info showing us those channels.



Quite frankly, I don't know if it means anything...it certainly doesn't here in the old Adelphia side of things.


And I'm tiring of his act, frankly.


----------



## nickdawg

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!


----------



## ed1202

Thanks for the enlightment inundated, I'm in Copley and yes WVIZ is indeed on channel 2 now. Where I was, position 2 was WKYC. I was wondering why some of the lower channels had moved their positions. So I'm ex-Adelphia now. Well the news just keeps getting better!


----------



## ed1202

Here's my list of missing channels:


102 Toon Disney

104 Nick Toons

105 The N

107 Noggin

108 PBS Kids Sprout

109 Boomerang

110 Nick Too

111 Discovery Kids

115 American Life

132 Science Channel

134 Nat'l Geograpic

136 History International

137 Military Channel

139 Investigation Discovery

140 BIO

152 Discovery Health

153 Fit TV

156 Planet Green

157 DIY

158 Fine Living

177 Shop NBC

194 Shopping Plus

210 Ovation

213 SoapNet

214 WE

218 Villiage TV

219 GSN

225 BBC America

226 Current TV

227 LOGO

228 Fox Reality

254 CMT

255 GAC

256 BET Jazz

257 Gospel Music Channel

258 Fuse

259 MTV Jams

278 Lifetime Movie Network

279 Fox Movie Channel

303 ESPN U

304 ESPN Classic

305 ESPNews

323 Versus

328 Fuel TV

329 G4

330 Outdoor Channel

353 Fox Business

356 Bloomberg

357 CNN International

360 CSPAN2

361 CSPAN3

362 Ohio News Network

391 TBN
*430 ESPN HD

431 ESPN2 HD

433 Big Ten Network HD

435 SportsTime Ohio HD

436 Cavaliers HD

437 HD Sports

441 TNT HD

442 TBS HD

444 A&E HD

445 HGTV HD

446 Food HD

447 History HD

448 HD Theater*


I did sign up on TW website for the tuning adapter and I agree Hookbill, that it probably won't make it appear any sooner.







And no, Nickdawg, we shouldn't have to pay for it.







The people with Tivo's are a very small percentage of Time Warner's total customer base, and it's just good PR and customer service!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15966042
> 
> 
> Thanks for the enlightment inundated, I'm in Copley and yes WVIZ is indeed on channel 2 now. Where I was, position 2 was WKYC. I was wondering why some of the lower channels had moved their positions. So I'm ex-Adelphia now. Well the news just keeps getting better!



I would rather doubt then that SDV is the problem. Most ex Adelphia areas are on SARA and have not converted to SDV.


Do you have any other sets that are hooked up to a regular converter box? Because it sounds to me like your cable card is not hooked up correctly if you're not getting those channels. If you have a regular cable box check the diagnostic screen to see what type of software they are running. SARA is not on SDV. They have not made a decision on what they are going to to with SARA as of last I heard on Saturday night.


If you have a 4250 box you should be able to access your diagnostic screen by pressing on the box the select key until the envelope appears then press info. If that doesn't work you probably have navigator and you press the down arrow instead.


If you don't have a box I don't know what to tell you. You got to be able to see that diagnostic screen to see if you have SDV. Or compare it to the list that was sent out earlier.


A bad cable card install could be the reason why you are not getting all your channels as well. That's why I say have them stay there and go through all the channels with you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15966170
> 
> 
> Here's my list of missing channels:
> 
> 
> 102 Toon Disney
> 
> 104 Nick Toons
> 
> 105 The N
> 
> 107 Noggin
> 
> 108 PBS Kids Sprout
> 
> 109 Boomerang
> 
> 110 Nick Too
> 
> 111 Discovery Kids
> 
> 115 American Life
> 
> 132 Science Channel
> 
> 134 Nat'l Geograpic
> 
> 136 History International
> 
> 137 Military Channel
> 
> 139 Investigation Discovery
> 
> 140 BIO
> 
> 152 Discovery Health
> 
> 153 Fit TV
> 
> 156 Planet Green
> 
> 157 DIY
> 
> 158 Fine Living
> 
> 177 Shop NBC
> 
> 194 Shopping Plus
> 
> 210 Ovation
> 
> 213 SoapNet
> 
> 214 WE
> 
> 218 Villiage TV
> 
> 219 GSN
> 
> 225 BBC America
> 
> 226 Current TV
> 
> 227 LOGO
> 
> 228 Fox Reality
> 
> 254 CMT
> 
> 255 GAC
> 
> 256 BET Jazz
> 
> 257 Gospel Music Channel
> 
> 258 Fuse
> 
> 259 MTV Jams
> 
> 278 Lifetime Movie Network
> 
> 279 Fox Movie Channel
> 
> 303 ESPN U
> 
> 304 ESPN Classic
> 
> 305 ESPNews
> 
> 323 Versus
> 
> 328 Fuel TV
> 
> 329 G4
> 
> 330 Outdoor Channel
> 
> 353 Fox Business
> 
> 356 Bloomberg
> 
> 357 CNN International
> 
> 360 CSPAN2
> 
> 361 CSPAN3
> 
> 362 Ohio News Network
> 
> 391 TBN
> *430 ESPN HD
> 
> 431 ESPN2 HD
> 
> 433 Big Ten Network HD
> 
> 435 SportsTime Ohio HD
> 
> 436 Cavaliers HD
> 
> 437 HD Sports
> 
> 441 TNT HD
> 
> 442 TBS HD
> 
> 444 A&E HD
> 
> 445 HGTV HD
> 
> 446 Food HD
> 
> 447 History HD
> 
> 448 HD Theater*
> 
> 
> I did sign up on TW website for the tuning adapter and I agree Hookbill, that it probably won't make it appear any sooner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no, Nickdawg, we shouldn't have to pay for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The people with Tivo's are a very small percentage of Time Warner's total customer base, and it's just good PR and customer service!




That's got to be a bad install. Those channels are not all on SDV.


----------



## hookbill

Ed, do you have a home theater? If you are getting PCM 48 on the lower 100 channels that is analog and you definitely are not on SDV.


I got an email address I can give you but lets see what's going on with your status and SDV. I think that cable card specialist may have been wrong, just going by zip codes. Some areas may have SDV, others may not.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15966183
> 
> 
> Do you have any other sets that are hooked up to a regular converter box? Because it sounds to me like your cable card is not hooked up correctly if you're not getting those channels. If you have a regular cable box check the diagnostic screen to see what type of software they are running. SARA is not on SDV. They have not made a decision on what they are going to to with SARA as of last I heard on Saturday night.
> 
> 
> A bad cable card install could be the reason why you are not getting all your channels as well. That's why I say have them stay there and go through all the channels with you.



No not yet. Like I said earlier, they gave me an 8300 HDC box yesterday and I am going to try to hook it up tonight. On that box, do you know how I get to diagnostics and what should I be looking for?




> Quote:
> I got an email address I can give you but lets see what's going on with your status and SDV. I think that cable card specialist may have been wrong, just going by zip codes. Some areas may have SDV, others may not.



That's what I'm beginning to think too; bad cablecard setup. Especially going from Legacy TWC to ex-Adelphia. Wouldn't the cablecard need to be reconfigured? And if so, can they do it with me over the phone, or would that require a truck roll? They are coming back Monday to finish the upstairs outlets...


Thanks for all the troubleshooting guys is really appreciated. It's ashame I can't get the same service from TW themselves.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15966399
> 
> 
> Ed, do you have a home theater? If you are getting PCM 48 on the lower 100 channels that is analog and you definitely are not on SDV.



No, but that's on my "toys to get" list.







Can't wait to have great sound to match the great HD picture! Right now I have a pretty crappy Samsung Theater in a Box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15966880
> 
> 
> No not yet. Like I said earlier, they gave me an 8300 HDC box yesterday and I am going to try to hook it up tonight. On that box, do you know how I get to diagnostics and what should I be looking for?
> 
> 
> _I got an email address I can give you but lets see what's going on with your status and SDV. I think that cable card specialist may have been wrong, just going by zip codes. Some areas may have SDV, others may not._
> 
> 
> That's what I'm beginning to think too; bad cablecard setup. Especially going from Legacy TWC to ex-Adelphia. Wouldn't the cablecard need to be reconfigured? And if so, can they do it with me over the phone, or would that require a truck roll? They are coming back Monday to finish the upstairs outlets...
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the troubleshooting guys is really appreciated. It's ashame I can't get the same service from TW themselves.



Same instructions as for the box. If you are running Navigator in your area chances are you have SDV.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15966948
> 
> 
> No, but that's on my "toys to get" list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to have great sound to match the great HD picture! Right now I have a pretty crappy Samsung Theater in a Box.



No wonder it sounds crappy. You have to take it out of the box!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15967798
> 
> 
> No wonder it sounds crappy. You have to take it out of the box!



There's one in every crowd.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15967798
> 
> 
> No wonder it sounds crappy. You have to take it out of the box!



Lol, so *that's* why!










Of course, because of the move, most everything is in a box right now...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15966170
> 
> 
> Here's my list of missing channels:
> 
> 102 Toon Disney
> 
> 104 Nick Toons
> 
> 105 The N
> 
> 107 Noggin
> 108 PBS Kids Sprout
> 
> 109 Boomerang
> 
> 110 Nick Too
> 111 Discovery Kids
> 
> 115 American Life
> 
> 132 Science Channel
> 
> 134 Nat'l Geograpic
> 
> 136 History International
> 
> 137 Military Channel
> 
> 139 Investigation Discovery
> 
> 140 BIO
> 
> 152 Discovery Health
> 
> 153 Fit TV
> 
> 156 Planet Green
> 157 DIY
> 
> 158 Fine Living
> 177 Shop NBC
> 
> 194 Shopping Plus
> 210 Ovation
> 213 SoapNet
> 
> 214 WE
> 
> 218 Villiage TV
> 
> 219 GSN
> 
> 225 BBC America
> 
> 226 Current TV
> 
> 227 LOGO
> 
> 228 Fox Reality
> 
> 254 CMT
> 
> 255 GAC
> 
> 256 BET Jazz
> 
> 257 Gospel Music Channel
> 
> 258 Fuse
> 
> 259 MTV Jams
> 
> 278 Lifetime Movie Network
> 
> 279 Fox Movie Channel
> 303 ESPN U
> 
> 304 ESPN Classic
> 
> 305 ESPNews
> 
> 323 Versus
> 328 Fuel TV
> 329 G4
> 
> 330 Outdoor Channel
> 
> 353 Fox Business
> 
> 356 Bloomberg
> 
> 357 CNN International
> 
> 360 CSPAN2
> 
> 361 CSPAN3
> 
> 362 Ohio News Network
> 
> 391 TBN
> *430 ESPN HD
> 
> 431 ESPN2 HD
> 
> 433 Big Ten Network HD
> 
> 435 SportsTime Ohio HD
> 
> 436 Cavaliers HD
> 
> 437 HD Sports
> 
> 441 TNT HD
> 
> 442 TBS HD
> 
> 444 A&E HD
> 
> 445 HGTV HD
> 
> 446 Food HD
> 
> 447 History HD
> 
> 448 HD Theater*



Something's wrong with your level of service. The channels you listed are above the basic service tier. Some are Digital Tier, Sports Tier or Choice Tier. Those HDTV channels are supposed to be included at no additional charge.


The HDTV channels should be working. Anything else you listed costs extra. I only have the channels in red as a part of the Digital Tier I have always had. I refuse to pay for the green and cyan channels that are part of the "Choice Tier" and "Sports Tier". Each one is $5.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15966948
> 
> 
> No, but that's on my "toys to get" list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to have great sound to match the great HD picture! Right now I have a pretty crappy Samsung Theater in a Box.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/15967798
> 
> 
> No wonder it sounds crappy. You have to take it out of the box!



It's like having a CD changer and subwoofers in your trunk. Who the hell wants to listen to music in the trunk?


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15968392
> 
> 
> Something's wrong with your level of service. The channels you listed are above the basic service tier. Some are Digital Tier, Sports Tier or Choice Tier. Those HDTV channels are supposed to be included at no additional charge.
> 
> 
> The HDTV channels should be working. Anything else you listed costs extra. I only have the channels in red as a part of the Digital Tier I have always had. I refuse to pay for the green and cyan channels that are part of the "Choice Tier" and "Sports Tier". Each one is $5.




Yes, understood. I'm not paying extra for those "specialty" tiers either, I added those in the list by accident. BUT, I do have the digital tier and especially I'm missing those HD channels, that's what I upset about. I see now where it's probably a cablecard config issue. I'm gonna try to call them tonight about it now that I'm better informed and see what they say.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15968981
> 
> 
> Yes, understood. I'm not paying extra for those "specialty" tiers either, I added those in the list by accident. BUT, I do have the digital tier and especially I'm missing those HD channels, that's what I upset about. I see now where it's probably a cablecard config issue. I'm gonna try to call them tonight about it now that I'm better informed and see what they say.



If you're paying for the Digital Tier, you should be getting every channel I have listed in red. Also, just the fact that you have either a TWC box or a Tivo with the cards means you should be getting all those HD channels you listed as not working.


I just threw that in as a better understanding of the different tiers.


The cool(maybe sad) thing is I color-coded that list all from my memory. I have that crap memorized!! Yay!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15968981
> 
> 
> Yes, understood. I'm not paying extra for those "specialty" tiers either, I added those in the list by accident. BUT, I do have the digital tier and especially I'm missing those HD channels, that's what I upset about. I see now where it's probably a cablecard config issue. I'm gonna try to call them tonight about it now that I'm better informed and see what they say.



It's a good possibility that you may not even be in a SDV area. That's what you really need to find out. When you call tonight if you don't get satisfaction from the CSR tell them you want to speak to a Customer Service Specialist - Don't ask for a Supervisor, that will not happen. If they tell you they will call you back then don't hesitate. Email [email protected] . He's the president of TWNEO. Now he won't reply personally but what will happen is your email will get forwarded to the manager in your area. Make sure you give them your phone number so they can either call you or look up your account when you send the email. I promise you will see results, but only email Mr. Fry if you have exhausted the previous suggestions.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15969118
> 
> 
> It's a good possibility that you may not even be in a SDV area. That's what you really need to find out. When you call tonight if you don't get satisfaction from the CSR tell them you want to speak to a Customer Service Specialist - Don't ask for a Supervisor, that will not happen. If they tell you they will call you back then don't hesitate. Email [email protected] . He's the president of TWNEO. Now he won't reply personally but what will happen is your email will get forwarded to the manager in your area. Make sure you give them your phone number so they can either call you or look up your account when you send the email. I promise you will see results, but only email Mr. Fry if you have exhausted the previous suggestions.



Yes I understand _The Power of Fry_ is not to be taken lightly and to be used only for good.







Actually I met him briefly when I worked for Time Warner about 10 years ago. He seemed like a genuinely nice man. I worked as a CSR at the Canton hub for about a year. Yes I was one of _those_ guys. It was a good company to work for and they treat their employees really well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15969391
> 
> 
> Yes I understand _The Power of Fry_ is not to be taken lightly and to be used only for good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I met him briefly when I worked for Time Warner about 10 years ago. He seemed like a genuinely nice man. I worked as a CSR at the Canton hub for about a year. Yes I was one of _those_ guys. It was a good company to work for and they treat their employees really well.



Well, there is nothing I can tell you that you probably don't know then. You probably understand the procedures better then any of us do as well.


You should be able to handle this, no problem.










Now don't get me started on the CSR's.....I got my own opinion about that because I've done CSR work in the past and....let me just stop there now.


----------



## nickdawg

Interesting...


Interesting to know how Mr. Fry is in person. I always imagined him as someone who makes a coat out of puppies. And throws rocks at kids. And trips old people.


----------



## bassett123

from TWCNEO Programming notices:



Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.




WBNX, WAOH, WIVM, WOHZ, WYFX HD, WTRF, FSN Pittsburgh, Lifeskool On Demand, Great American Country, GSN, BBC America On Demand, Inspirational Life, Outdoor Channel, NBA TV, E!, Logo, ShopNBC, Style, Weather Channel, HD Net, HD Net Movies.




On, or after, March 31, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.




On April 15, 2009, the Music Choice programming line up will change. The channel positions will continue to be 901 - 947, but the individual channels may change positions in some cases.




On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family,




On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: ESPN News and MLB




On April 29, 2009, Game Show Network will move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Basic tier.




On 3/31/09, WDLI/TBN/17 will be added to Basic Service on the Norwalk & Willard line ups.


Where it is carried in the county, MoviePlex will be dropped from the Expanded Basic line-up on, or after 3/15/09. At that same time, RetroPlex will be added to the line-up on the Movie Tier




The following changes will take place on, or after, 3/15/09: In the Cadiz, Hopedale, Jewett, and Scio systems, MoviePlex will be dropped from the Expanded Basic Line-up. In Cadiz, RetroPlex will be added to Digital Basic.




On or after March 31, 2009, the following channels will be dropped from line ups serving the Dover, New Philly and Newcomerstown areas: WTRF




* Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.




Click here to return to the Time Warner Cable homepage.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassett123* /forum/post/15970274
> 
> 
> from TWCNEO Programming notices:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On, or after, March 31, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, and Disney HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: ESPN News and MLB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On April 29, 2009, Game Show Network will move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Basic tier.
> 
> 
> 
> On or after March 31, 2009, the following channels will be dropped from line ups serving the Dover, New Philly and Newcomerstown areas: WTRF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click here to return to the Time Warner Cable homepage.



They already are bailing from their 3/15 date on HD. Not surprising.


----------



## shooter21198

lets make bets April 29th will be delayed to may


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15971166
> 
> 
> lets make bets April 29th will be delayed to may



In a previous post I predicted 4/1 as the start date for the first batch of HD. They will have to set up SDV I would think to add additional channels 4/29,



May 15 sounds about right.


----------



## Vchat20

Ya know...One thing just crossed my mind...


Do you by any chance have relatives in Palmdale, CA nickdawg? Anyone by the name of 'punker'? All of a sudden you bear a striking resemblance to this one dude....


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15971540
> 
> 
> WHY THE HELL ARE THEY ADDING THESE BOTTOM FEEDER CHANNELS AHEAD OF THINGS LIKE F/X!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OTA is starting to look better and better every second...



Good luck with that. FXHD doesn't come in all that well OTA.










FX is just as much a "bottom feeder" as SciFi, Bravo, ABC Family, Disney, and Animal Planet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15973708
> 
> 
> Good luck with that. FXHD doesn't come in all that well OTA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FX is just as much a "bottom feeder" as SciFi, Bravo, ABC Family, Disney, and Animal Planet.



Oh, you are just so wrong about that. FX provides some of the highest quality dramas on television, even as good as Showtime or HBO.


However I share your sentiments about nickdawg and going to OTA. Maybe he will try E'* this time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/15972340
> 
> 
> Ya know...One thing just crossed my mind...
> 
> 
> Do you by any chance have relatives in Palmdale, CA nickdawg? Anyone by the name of 'punker'? All of a sudden you bear a striking resemblance to this one dude....



You know we tried to warn him. We did everything we could and he should have known better not to get your hopes up when dealing with a cable company. Specially when they "proclaim" something with all kinds of loopholes.


And you notice they left the same loopholes for the 3/31 date as well. This is called marketing, they are promising something without making a firm commitment. We may not see any of this until as you predicted earlier until Summer.


Maybe I should go back to my Fall prediction for SDV. Heck if I'm wrong it will probably be because it didn't start until Winter.







And that means using SDV to provide more HD service, not just turning the stupid thing on and not doing anything with it.


nickdawg, you never should have left satellite.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15973708
> 
> 
> FX is just as much a "bottom feeder" as SciFi, Bravo, ABC Family, Disney, and Animal Planet.



I agree with you. Moreover, I am not picky. I will gladly take whatever they give.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/15974013
> 
> 
> I agree with you. Moreover, I am not picky. I will gladly take whatever they give.



So you will watch anything just so it's in HD? That doesn't make sense to me, particularly since I tried it myself when I first got HD. I ended up falling asleep.


Boring is boring whether it's in HD or SD.







I want quality not quantity. As it stands right now I already have more then enough shows to record, it's just a matter of getting USA, FX, and maybe one or two others I might be interested in that have original programming.


When you buy concert tickets do you care what artist you are seeing, or do you just go to the concert to go to a concert?


----------



## ed1202

Well I called TW last night. CSR tried to hit the box. Nothing. Remove and re-insert cablecard. Nothing. "Ok, well we're gonna have to get someone out there for you. How about next Wednesday?"







So, my call got escalated and I got to talk to a very apologetic supervisor who flagged my account to priority status and said someone will be out to correct the situation within 24 hours. Promptly at 8:30 this morning I get a call from TW confirming a "all day" service call. So hopefully we'll have success today... and all without using *The Power of Fry*.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15972105
> 
> 
> Now you know those other channels may be coming as well, can they give us anything that's more bottom of the barrel type HD?



I'm personally waiting for TV Land in HD. Good Times is gonna look "DY-NO-MITE!"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15974583
> 
> 
> Well I called TW last night. CSR tried to hit the box. Nothing. Remove and re-insert cablecard. Nothing. "Ok, well we're gonna have to get someone out there for you. How about next Wednesday?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, my call got escalated and I got to talk to a very apologetic supervisor who flagged my account to priority status and said someone will be out to correct the situation within 24 hours. Promptly at 8:30 this morning I get a call from TW confirming a "all day" service call. So hopefully we'll have success today... and all without using *The Power of Fry*.



I feel kind of dumb telling this to you to be honest but please make the first question out of your mouth "is this area affected by SDV?" If he says yes then tell him you are missing too many channels. If he says no or more likely looks like you like your an alien from outer space then just have him fix it. Make sure he calls head end for assistance.


I still think since you're ex Adelphia there is no SDV in your area. The only way that would happen is if Adelphia happen to run Passport before the buyout, but for the most part it should be the old SARA software.


Now a couple of words that I tell anybody during install.


Do NOT let them touch the remote. You handle everything. You may want to familiarize yourself with the cable card screens. Make sure they run a signal check on every cable connection in your house, don't go by TiVo's signal that's not accurate enough. And don't let them leave until you check every channel. That may get them upset but hey, you're the customer.


Also write down the number of your cable card (s). Are they using one M card or two S cards? Double check them when they call in the number to make sure they got it right, I caught them making a mistake.


Good luck and let us know what happens. Hopefully they will show, I hate those "all day appointments." If they don't show, you know what to do.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15973787
> 
> 
> Oh, you are just so wrong about that. FX provides some of the highest quality dramas on television, even as good as Showtime or HBO.



Well, I've been wrong before, nothing new there (except that it's usually my wife who lets me know).










But I do know that my TV spends a lot more time on Animal Planet and ABC Family than any of those other channels, at least when my kids are home. So maybe T/W is on to something. Then again, my kids don't really care whether or not a show is in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/15975146
> 
> 
> Well, I've been wrong before, nothing new there (except that it's usually my wife who lets me know).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I do know that my TV spends a lot more time on Animal Planet and ABC Family than any of those other channels, at least when my kids are home. So maybe T/W is on to something. Then again, my kids don't really care whether or not a show is in HD.



I watch Kyle XY and it was great when it was on HD. Now it's become kind of a routine, teenage crush type show but I'm stuck with that because wife likes it.


It will be better to watch in HD. But that's a ways away.


----------



## ed1202

Don't feel dumb at all... those are some great tips!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15975001
> 
> 
> Also write down the number of your cable card (s). Are they using one M card or two S cards? Double check them when they call in the number to make sure they got it right, I caught them making a mistake.



Yeah, that why I insisted on an M-Card. I figured with one card versus two, there's a 50% better chance of getting it right.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15975001
> 
> 
> If they don't show, you know what to do.



You betcha'!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15973823
> 
> 
> Maybe I should go back to my Fall prediction for SDV. Heck if I'm wrong it will probably be because it didn't start until Winter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that means using SDV to provide more HD service, not just turning the stupid thing on and not doing anything with it.



I'm going to throw in MY prediction date. I think those channels are coming on March 15.



March 15, 2010!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15976084
> 
> 
> I'm going to throw in MY prediction date. I think those channels are coming on March 15.
> 
> 
> 
> March 15, 2010!!



I was going to say your as stubborn as a mule.


----------



## hookbill

I probably got this number for TW in this forum as well. This is to TW's main customer service center. 203-351-2221.

http://consumerist.com/5013973/reach...stomer-service 


I called this number to complain about TW blocking all digital channels from copy freely. Did it get me anywhere? No. But they did knock 20 bucks off my bill to try to pacify me.


Anytime somebody gives me 20 bucks I take it.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/15976297
> 
> 
> Anytime somebody gives me 20 bucks I take it.



Heck, yeah!


Now for today's episode of "As The Cable Unwinds"...










When last we left...


So the tech arrived and did confirm rather confidently that SDV _"has not been deployed in this area yet."_ Called in read some numbers everything checked okay. Cable card good. Box good. Tv good. Fireplace good. Signal strength... uh oh. So now a new drop is required and new cabling to the house. Says should completed within 24 to 48 hours. Wow, now they suddenly have a fire lit under them. I wonder why?










You know, several weeks ago when I first called in to transfer service, I specifically told the CSR, *"it's an old house. Please have them set aside enough time. I think alot of it will have to be rewired."* But, you know, don't listen to me. What do I know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/15976909
> 
> 
> Heck, yeah!
> 
> 
> Now for today's episode of "As The Cable Unwinds"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When last we left...
> 
> 
> So the tech arrived and did confirm rather confidently that SDV _"has not been deployed in this area yet."_ Called in read some numbers everything checked okay. Cable card good. Box good. Tv good. Fireplace good. Signal strength... uh oh. So now a new drop is required and new cabling to the house. Says should completed within 24 to 48 hours. Wow, now they suddenly have a fire lit under them. I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, several weeks ago when I first called in to transfer service, I specifically told the CSR, *"it's an old house. Please have them set aside enough time. I think alot of it will have to be rewired."* But, you know, don't listen to me. What do I know.



I had a feeling it was signal strength. It fit the pattern perfectly, some channels you were getting, some you wern't.


So are they going to refund you some money for your "inconvenience." I think a call to that other number I provided (not the cable card number) and the story you just mentioned about having told them in advance that's worth a 20.00 refund.


----------



## DrDon

A number of ..well.. unnecessary posts have been removed. Stay on topic, please. Keep your rants to yourselves. Failure to do so will result in being banned from further participation in this thread. And no dessert for a month!


----------



## hookbill

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I'm no fan of cable companies. I think they are all evil hence my quote: "consider the cable companies as a group of terrorists".


Now having said that I see more communication coming out of TW then I ever saw come out of Adelphia. True, they change what they say within 48 to 72 hours after they publish it but at least they are updating info.


Now truthfully if they hadn't changed that one post to "on or after March 31" certain people would be looking for that date. Now at least you know that it's not going to happen on 3/15. And yes, they left the door open to change it again.


But at least they are saying something! Compared to what we got with Adelphia that's like major league communication.


That's all I have to say on that. Now I gotta get a Mack truck so I can drive through all those loopholes.










See you in September!


----------



## DrDon

Apologies accepted. Ok, back on topic. Thanks!


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/15969922
> 
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> 
> Interesting to know how Mr. Fry is in person. I always imagined him as someone who makes a coat out of puppies. And throws rocks at kids. And trips old people.



Nickdawg, I'll be sending you a bill from my dry cleaner. This comment made me spit out my coffee laughing. Good stuff.


----------



## hookbill

I don't know about you guys but I think it's going to be real fun watching the The Tribe beat the Tigers this season in HD. You remember them, super team, going to do it all, fell on their faces. It was all in HD as you recall.


Not that the Tribe did so well either but this is a new season and I'm confident with the pitching staff they now have they are going to be a force to reckon with. And since it is all in HD on STO we will be able to enjoy all of it.


I'm not a huge basketball fan but I did notice that the Cavs kicked the Pistons tail sideways this season in HD. Anytime we can enjoy watching a Detroit team of any kind get it's butt kicked in HD is a good thing. And how about those Detroit Lions? Were they even shown in HD at all this year? Man, you talk about some bad football.


All of the above was kept on topic. I was discussing a local teams and HD television. The fact that I chose Detroit as my punching bag and that the mod who came in here recently happens to be from Detroit is purely coincidental! Really. We love people from Detroit. And Pittsburgh. Great people, all of them.


----------



## nickdawg

In an effort to move forward in a new direction, I thought I'd start us off with a positive post about a local TV station. Watching Jeopardy tonight on WEWHD I noticed that the hideous "faux sourround sound" they once used is now gone.


Instead, sound is only coming out of the L and R front channels. Even though the channel is still flagged as "Dolby Digital 3/2.1", the center, SL, SR channels are quiet on non-5.1 programming(in the same style as WKYCHD). I like it! I like the way WKYCHD does Digital Audio and I'm glad WEWHD finally stopped doing that fake surround. It's like using a Pro Logic setting, only worse. Personally, I prefer to use the A.F.D. Auto setting on my home theater. 2 channel is passed as 2 channel, 5.1 as 5.1 and 1 channel as 1 channel(yes, surprisingly a few 1 channel only channels exist on TWC!).


As of right now:

WKYCHD:3/2.1-local & non 5.1 programming as 2-channelWEWHD:3/2.1-local & non 5.1 programming as 2-channelWJWHD:2/0 for non-FOX programming, 3/2.1 for primetime thru the splicer, non-5.1 upconverted by networkWOIOHD:3/2.1 all the time, network proper 5.1(although a bit TOO LOUD), local/non 5.1 in fake surround(hideous)WVIZHD:2/0 all the timeWUABHD:3/2.1 all the time, network(?), everything upconverted to fake surroundWNEOHD:3/2.1 all the time, network 5.1 correctly, other programming variesWBNXHD:3/2.1 all the time, network programming sometimes correct(getting better) local/non-5.1 in 2 channel


----------



## hookbill

Now available on TiVo. That is if you're not in SDV land, then of course you arn't seeing anything on that channel.


Hopefully they will get the tuning adapters out to you folks soon. It be nice if we had them installed before SDV even begins over here.


----------



## hookbill

I'm only posting this because I kind of thought that MLBnetwork would be carrying the majority of the games. While they will be carrying some games it appears that ESPN and ESPN2 are currently carrying games. USA in HD on ESPN at 2:00 pm today.


----------



## shooter21198

i found something odd while watching UFC 96 at a friends house it seems that all SARA Boxes in Erie are SDV Enabled so soon TWC will be done with that project


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15994916
> 
> 
> i found something odd while watching UFC 96 at a friends house it seems that all SARA Boxes in Erie are SDV Enabled so soon TWC will be done with that project



Shooter, I really don't want to have to go through all this again. I know what you saw on the diagnostic screen. We have talked about this until we are blue in the face.


Yes, it does say "enableled" but that is only on page 1. As you go through the rest of the diagnostic screens it's either n/a, 0, or no. It simply means that SARA is capable of doing SDV which if you read this thread on a regular basis we've known for sometime now.


Time Warner apparently wants everybody on Navigator so that they can have financial and technical control of the software. This is not certain but appears to be what the delay has been.


I'm not saying I know for certain what TW is going to do but what you saw is nothing new. It's been that way for probably at least a year now.


----------



## shooter21198

well the more i learn i was just confused because the box was a 4200HD from 5 years ago and couldn't believe it was SDV enabled


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/15995505
> 
> 
> well the more i learn i was just confused because the box was a 4200HD from 5 years ago and couldn't believe it was SDV enabled



Understandable. You're looking as I said earlier at the diagnostic screens first page. But if you went into the other 3 pages you would see it's quite inactive.


Yes, It's enabled, but no, it's not active.










Hope that doesn't confuse you further.


There is no reason why they can't use SARA and never has been. They could have used Passport as well but they chose Navigator, Passport was capable of SDV as well. That's why I'm of the opinion that the game plan is to make it all Navigator. They would not have control over the software if they leave it with SARA.


----------



## hookbill

There was a discussion about the quality of HD broadcast in the area. I have a Windows program called TiVo Playlist that actually shows the quality of each show.


The lower the number, the better the quality. And that should also relate to a larger file. Now unfortunately I could not copy these numbers directly from the program but I will give a few with local network programing and cable programming. I think some of you may be surprised:


Big Love - Rough Edges 4.50 gb recording quality 0.22 (HD) HBO

The Unit - Hero 6.67 gb quality 0.15 (HD) WOIO

Desperate Housewives - Crime Doesn't Pay 7.27 gb quality 0.14 (HD) WEWS

NIP/TUCK - Giselle Blaylocka and Legend Chandler 3.46 GB quality 0.30 F/X analog cable (using TiVo's "'Best" setting)

Medium - A Taste or Her Own Medicine 4.66 gb quality .21 (HD)WEWS

24 Day 7: 5:00 PM-6:00pm 4.92 gb quality .020 (HD) WJW



I tried to use an "average" show sampling. As you can see WOIO did quite well despite sub channels, almost as good as WEWS. WJW on the other hand didn't hold up as well. They did do much better on Terminator and Flashpoint but I wanted to get "average" readings.


And just look how much disk space that analog show takes up on my DVR. Half of what it takes for a HD show. I don't record any digital channel shows so I wasn't able to give any numbers for those.


WKYC is pretty consistent at showing the lower numbers for HD.


These are just my facts and figures. As usual, YMMV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16000077
> 
> 
> 
> I tried to use an "average" show sampling. As you can see WOIO did quite well despite sub channels, almost as good as WEWS. WJW on the other hand didn't hold up as well. They did do much better on Terminator and Flashpoint but I wanted to get "average" readings.
> 
> 
> And just look how takes up on my DVR. Half of what it takes for a HD show. I don't record any digital channel shows so I wasn't able to give any numbers for those.



The PQ on WJW is probably getting a worse reading because FOX "pre-degrades" it at the source. Remember awhile back when we were discussing the FOX splicer? Well, FOX sends their programs through the splicer at a lower rate than other networks. It's like there is a ghost subchannel, even if your affiliate does not have one.


I'm shocked by WOIO. Although I haven't watched CBS at all(outside of sports or news), maybe they adjusted some things to lower bandwidth to the weather channel.


Not surprised about ABC. I've always said that the channel with the best PQ(to me) is ABC/5.


----------



## k2rj

Did anyone else notice the wierd audio at times on last night's Chuck? Especially when they were talking to the "General" the audio had a distinct echo. I heard it in some other scenes as well, but it wasn't as bad....


----------



## ed1202

Well not much has been happening lately with the TW situation. Until today. A line supervisor showed up and after examining the wires, they've determined that the initial installers hooked me up to the wrong region. I'm connected to the Copley-Fairlawn-Macedonia system where I should be connected to the Akron-Canton system. Hence the missing channels. So they will be running correct lines to the house and all should be well. I must be really close to the territory line, no? And does this mean I'm going from ex-Adelphia land *back* to legacy TW?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16011380
> 
> 
> Well not much has been happening lately with the TW situation. Until today. A line supervisor showed up and after examining the wires, they've determined that the initial installers hooked me up to the wrong region. I'm connected to the Copley-Fairlawn-Macedonia system where I should be connected to the Akron-Canton system. Hence the missing channels. So they will be running correct lines to the house and all should be well. I must be really close to the territory line, no? And does this mean I'm going from ex-Adelphia land *back* to legacy TW?



OMG, what a nightmare! How could that one tech tell you that you are not on SDV yet this supervisor comes out and says Akron-Canton. I would think it sounds like legacy land and if that's the case you will have to deal with the SDV issue but maybe I'm wrong.


Whatta mess! Did you get your 20 bucks yet?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16011380
> 
> 
> Well not much has been happening lately with the TW situation. Until today. A line supervisor showed up and after examining the wires, they've determined that the initial installers hooked me up to the wrong region. I'm connected to the Copley-Fairlawn-Macedonia system where I should be connected to the Akron-Canton system. Hence the missing channels. So they will be running correct lines to the house and all should be well. I must be really close to the territory line, no? And does this mean I'm going from ex-Adelphia land *back* to legacy TW?



Maybe that's why they originally said you were SDV the first time you called.










Life will be much better on the Akron/Canton system, we're already SDV and all the channels under 100 are digital.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16011781
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why they originally said you were SDV the first time you called.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Life will be much better on the Akron/Canton system, we're already SDV and all the channels under 100 are digital.



Yeah, I just took a look at the SDV channels and basically so long as he gets his converter by opening day for baseball he's OK. If he's not a baseball fan he may not care.


You don't subscribe to the higher digital tier, do you Ed? If you do you won't get that because of SDV. That is until you get your tuner converter.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16011865
> 
> 
> Yeah, I just took a look at the SDV channels and basically so long as he gets his converter by opening day for baseball he's OK. If he's not a baseball fan he may not care.
> 
> 
> You don't subscribe to the higher digital tier, do you Ed? If you do you won't get that because of SDV. That is until you get your tuner converter.



I do subscribe to the digital tier. What is the higher digital tier?


BTW hookbill, do you have a tuning adapter?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16012104
> 
> 
> I do subscribe to the digital tier. What is the higher digital tier?
> 
> 
> BTW hookbill, do you have a tuning adapter?



Higher digital tier includes channels in the Sports Tier, Choice Tier, Movie Tier and HDTV Tier. Many of those channels are the ones that are being converted to SDV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16012104
> 
> 
> I do subscribe to the digital tier. What is the higher digital tier?
> 
> 
> BTW hookbill, do you have a tuning adapter?



What I should have said was do you subscribe to the higher HD tier which I think is 6 bucks more a month. It includes MGM, HDnet, Hdnet Movies, and I think Universal unless that has changed. I've been getting Universal without the sub, nickdawg said he had to subscribe.


No, I don't have the tuner adapters and probably nobody does yet. My understanding is TW has them in their warehouse and will be distributing them after training their techs.


That's kind of laughable because all you gotta do is just plug it in between the wall and your TiVo, but that's what my headend person told me just about a week and a half ago.


If you are in SDV land I wouldn't hesitate to let them know that you know they have them in their warehouse. I'll bet that they distribute in legacy before they do up here considering SDV is already active, but hey who knows? If you do subscribe to those other HD channels just drop them until you get your tuner adapter.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16012298
> 
> 
> What I should have said was do you subscribe to the higher HD tier which I think is 6 bucks more a month. It includes MGM, HDnet, Hdnet Movies, and I think Universal unless that has changed. I've been getting Universal without the sub, nickdawg said he had to subscribe.



No I don't have that tier... but it would be nice to get Universal HD











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16012298
> 
> 
> No, I don't have the tuner adapters and probably nobody does yet. My understanding is TW has them in their warehouse and will be distributing them after training their techs.
> 
> 
> That's kind of laughable because all you gotta do is just plug it in between the wall and your TiVo, but that's what my headend person told me just about a week and a half ago.



Yes, training to plug things in...











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16012298
> 
> 
> If you are in SDV land I wouldn't hesitate to let them know that you know they have them in their warehouse. I'll bet that they distribute in legacy before they do up here considering SDV is already active, but hey who knows? If you do subscribe to those other HD channels just drop them until you get your tuner adapter.



I might try that...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16013695
> 
> 
> No I don't have that tier... but it would be nice to get Universal HD



As of right now, Universal HD and MGM HD are not SDV. ONly HD Net and HD Net Movies.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16012298
> 
> 
> That's kind of laughable because all you gotta do is just plug it in between the wall and your TiVo, but that's what my headend person told me just about a week and a half ago.



The simplicity of an interface at the set-top likely conceals a significant amount of complexity at the back end systems. Training would be necessary for an entire workforce, from headend to installers to CSRs and beyond. They will need to learn how the device is represented in their back office displays, how it's configured, how to access and interpret the diagnostics, and how to articulate all of this to customers and co-workers.


A SDV launch is hardly a trivial project; you could fill pages and pages of paper with an explanation of how the simple act of pressing the "Channel Up" button on the viewer's remote control causes a channel to change in an SDV system.


Training is a good thing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16014139
> 
> 
> The simplicity of an interface at the set-top likely conceals a significant amount of complexity at the back end systems. Training would be necessary for an entire workforce, from headend to installers to CSRs and beyond. They will need to learn how the device is represented in their back office displays, how it's configured, how to access and interpret the diagnostics, and how to articulate all of this to customers and co-workers.
> 
> 
> A SDV launch is hardly a trivial project; you could fill pages and pages of paper with an explanation of how the simple act of pressing the "Channel Up" button on the viewer's remote control causes a channel to change in an SDV system.
> 
> 
> Training is a good thing.



Your absolutely right, my problem however is that there simply doesn't seem to be enough training with TW and it's staff. I'm not talking just about the techs, I'm talking about the CSR's. Rarely do I find one that is knowledgeable enough to help me with any issue I have hence my constantly bothering Joann when I have problems.


But you are spot on about how complex the whole thing is. Imagine coming up with a device to work on SDV for all cable systems. The thing that is cool about it was the Cable industry showed a willingness to work with TiVo on this. For that I am grateful. Otherwise I would basically have worthless boxes, which many told me I was going to have - but they were all wrong.


----------



## Vchat20

I still say Tivo should have been forward thinking and put in bi-directional tuners with their digital cable capable boxes considering 2-way cable services have been in the works LONG before Tivo ever thought of offering digital cable dvr's.


But hey, as long as some kind of solution is made and not outrageously prohibitive...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16014483
> 
> 
> I still say Tivo should have been forward thinking and put in bi-directional tuners with their digital cable capable boxes considering 2-way cable services have been in the works LONG before Tivo ever thought of offering digital cable dvr's.
> 
> 
> But hey, as long as some kind of solution is made and not outrageously prohibitive...



I agree to a certain extent but I'm not sure that tivo perceived th aggrssve wayTW and other cable co.. Were going to ensue it, and it still would have required teamwork to make it happen.


----------



## nickdawg

Watching the news on channle 5 tonight, I see that the black line is back on the bottom of the screen. Except this time it is not seen on ABC HD programming, just local HD(the news) and local SD upconvert commercials. If you're a regular reader, you know this is my "peeve" with WEWS. Every few months or so, this happens. Usually it is fixed. But now, it is really irritating to see that line down there. Especially on the news when you're seeing different video with unclean edges and graphics that do not go all the way to the bottom.


5 is very strange. Either the picture is pushed too far UP and we get that black line at the bottom of the screen or the picture is pushed down and we can see the blanking lines at the top of SD upconvert. Personally, I'd rather see the blanking lines at the top of the screen instead of the black bar.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16014483
> 
> 
> I still say Tivo should have been forward thinking and put in bi-directional tuners with their digital cable capable boxes considering 2-way cable services have been in the works LONG before Tivo ever thought of offering digital cable dvr's.
> 
> 
> But hey, as long as some kind of solution is made and not outrageously prohibitive...



Remember, Tivo is a business. They're all about that "planned obsolescence". At least they were kind enough to help people who already spent tons on these boxes to continue using them, rather than making them buy a new one. Right now would be the perfect time for Tivo to roll out that new S4, that is two-way capable.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16009852
> 
> 
> Did anyone else notice the wierd audio at times on last night's Chuck? Especially when they were talking to the "General" the audio had a distinct echo. I heard it in some other scenes as well, but it wasn't as bad....



I noticed it - pretty annoying. Same thing happened on Heroes, almost to a point where it was hard to understand what was being said.


I noticed later that night the audio was out of sync with the video on Leno - dunno if that's related.


----------



## toby10

We all love cable-tv advances in the areas of digital, HD, SDV, VOD, etc... but with the yin comes the yang!










With their "new and improved" technology the cable co's can now bother us on every damn channel across the board with the silly warnings and alerts. Cable was my safe harbor to get away from these intrusive and unnecessary ramblings, but no more.










In each of the last five days my viewing has been disrupted with this needless crap! Three weather warnings, two Amber alerts.


I don't give a damn that it's going to rain, snow or flood, it does not affect me nor my plans. I'm sorry your kid went missing but I (and 99.999999 % of the viewing public) haven't seen the little runt, so please stop bothering me!


If I'm concerned about the weather I'll watch the locals or the Weather Ch., if I want to hear about missing kids I'll watch Nancy Grace.


Cable Co's: For the love of GOD, with all of your new found "technology", give us the option to turn this needless crap OFF!!!!


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16015731
> 
> 
> We all love cable-tv advances in the areas of digital, HD, SDV, VOD, etc... but with the yin comes the yang!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With their "new and improved" technology the cable co's can now bother us on every damn channel across the board with the silly warnings and alerts. Cable was my safe harbor to get away from these intrusive and unnecessary ramblings, but no more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In each of the last five days my viewing has been disrupted with this needless crap! Three weather warnings, two Amber alerts.
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn that it's going to rain, snow or flood, it does not affect me nor my plans. I'm sorry your kid went missing but I (and 99.999999 % of the viewing public) haven't seen the little runt, so please stop bothering me!
> 
> 
> If I'm concerned about the weather I'll watch the locals or the Weather Ch., if I want to hear about missing kids I'll watch Nancy Grace.
> 
> 
> Cable Co's: For the love of GOD, with all of your new found "technology", give us the option to turn this needless crap OFF!!!!




Amen! I agree with you 100%!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16014652
> 
> 
> Remember, Tivo is a business. They're all about that "planned obsolescence". At least they were kind enough to help people who already spent tons on these boxes to continue using them, rather than making them buy a new one. Right now would be the perfect time for Tivo to roll out that new S4, that is two-way capable.



nickdawg, you have absolutely no idea about what TiVo is about in regards to commitment to it's customers. They still even support Direct TiVo's although they do not offer the latest in software. The "Series 1" TiVo will still get support if you have an issue with it regardless of how old it is, they just don't provide the advanced technology because the hardware is not capable of receiving it. This theory you have of rolling out a S4 right now is not what is in the game plan, they just rolled out another version of the TiVo HD. Don't make up things as you go along. Will there be an S4? Probably but I don't see it happening in the next year or so. I heard nothing about it at the Vegas convention.


Because I knew TiVo wouldn't let it's customers just sink and give a box that wasn't capable of SDV I took the chance on their reputations and I was right. Their reputation for standing by their products is quite good.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16015731
> 
> 
> We all love cable-tv advances in the areas of digital, HD, SDV, VOD, etc... but with the yin comes the yang!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With their "new and improved" technology the cable co's can now bother us on every damn channel across the board with the silly warnings and alerts. Cable was my safe harbor to get away from these intrusive and unnecessary ramblings, but no more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In each of the last five days my viewing has been disrupted with this needless crap! Three weather warnings, two Amber alerts.
> 
> 
> I don't give a damn that it's going to rain, snow or flood, it does not affect me nor my plans. I'm sorry your kid went missing but I (and 99.999999 % of the viewing public) haven't seen the little runt, so please stop bothering me!
> 
> 
> If I'm concerned about the weather I'll watch the locals or the Weather Ch., if I want to hear about missing kids I'll watch Nancy Grace.
> 
> 
> Cable Co's: For the love of GOD, with all of your new found "technology", give us the option to turn this needless crap OFF!!!!



I believe this was forced upon them by the Feds....


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16016338
> 
> 
> I believe this was forced upon them by the Feds....



Oh I'm sure of that.










More government interrupting our lives, trying to save us from ourselves. It is truly amazing human beings had survived for so long prior to the FEDS watching over us. Guess we were just lucky.


----------



## hookbill

I just received the following email from TW: April 1 is the day, no fooling!











Dear Valued Customer,


We would like to thank you once again for choosing Time Warner Cable as your cable service provider. According to our records, you have pre-ordered a Tuning Adapter via our website ( www.timewarnercable.com/tuningadapter ). We are happy to announce that Tuning Adapters will be available in your area after April 1, 2009.


Below you will find additional information about the Tuning Adapter, which will allow you to access services delivered using switched digital video (SDV) technology using your CableCARD-equipped TiVo® Series3, TiVo HD, or TiVo HD XL digital video recorder (DVR).


As you know, we have begun to deliver certain channels using SDV, a two-way technology that makes it possible for us to offer many additional services, including new HD channels and HD versions of popular existing channels, to our customers.


As we have described to you before, the current generation of CableCARD-compatible devices sold at retail, which includes HD TiVo DVRs, is only capable of accessing our one-way services. The Tuning Adapter is designed to work in conjunction with your CableCARD-equipped HD TiVo DVR to allow you to receive programming delivered using SDV technology (but not our other interactive features) while you continue to enjoy all the features of your TiVo. TiVo Tuning Adapters will be available after April 1, 2009.


Upon request, we will provide you with a Tuning Adapter for each of your CableCARD-equipped HD TiVo DVRs at no charge.You will continue to pay the standard lease rate for your CableCARD(s).Over the next few weeks, we'll be contacting you via e-mail and/or telephone to arrange for free FedEx® shipping of your Tuning Adapter(s).


The tuning adapters will be available after April 1, 2009. Should you have questions in the interim,please e-mail us at [email protected] or call 330.572.4116.



Time Warner Cable is constantly looking for ways to serve you better. We thank you for your continued support.


Thank you.


Sincerely,

Liz Watson


Director of Marketing

Time Warner Cable


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16017578
> 
> 
> I just received the following email from TW: April 1 is the day, no fooling!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Valued Customer,
> 
> 
> We would like to thank you once again for choosing Time Warner Cable as your cable service provider. According to our records, you have pre-ordered a Tuning Adapter via our website ( www.timewarnercable.com/tuningadapter ). We are happy to announce that Tuning Adapters will be available in your area after April 1, 2009.
> 
> 
> Below you will find additional information about the Tuning Adapter, which will allow you to access services delivered using switched digital video (SDV) technology using your CableCARD-equipped TiVo® Series3, TiVo HD, or TiVo HD XL digital video recorder (DVR).
> 
> 
> As you know, we have begun to deliver certain channels using SDV, a two-way technology that makes it possible for us to offer many additional services, including new HD channels and HD versions of popular existing channels, to our customers.
> 
> 
> As we have described to you before, the current generation of CableCARD-compatible devices sold at retail, which includes HD TiVo DVRs, is only capable of accessing our one-way services. The Tuning Adapter is designed to work in conjunction with your CableCARD-equipped HD TiVo DVR to allow you to receive programming delivered using SDV technology (but not our other interactive features) while you continue to enjoy all the features of your TiVo. TiVo Tuning Adapters will be available after April 1, 2009.
> 
> 
> Upon request, we will provide you with a Tuning Adapter for each of your CableCARD-equipped HD TiVo DVRs at no charge.You will continue to pay the standard lease rate for your CableCARD(s).Over the next few weeks, we'll be contacting you via e-mail and/or telephone to arrange for free FedEx® shipping of your Tuning Adapter(s).
> 
> 
> The tuning adapters will be available after April 1, 2009. Should you have questions in the interim,please e-mail us at [email protected] or call 330.572.4116.
> 
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable is constantly looking for ways to serve you better. We thank you for your continued support.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Liz Watson
> 
> 
> Director of Marketing
> 
> Time Warner Cable



*niiice!*


Now I only hope my other problems will be resolved before then...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16017875
> 
> *niiice!*
> 
> 
> Now I only hope my other problems will be resolved before then...



I sent an email requesting 2, gave name, phone, cell, acct #, dob, number of wives....


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16016178
> 
> 
> Because I knew TiVo wouldn't let it's customers just sink and give a box that wasn't capable of SDV I took the chance on their reputations and I was right. Their reputation for standing by their products is quite good.



Agreed. I had a DirecTV Tivo and that's when I fell in love with the simplicity and interface and relibility that the box provided. Then I went to the cable co. and greatly missed all that with their boxes. So when a good deal on an HD tivo came up I jumped on it. Yes it is a pricey alternative, but the quality of the product and the commitment to it's customers is well worth it. The joint commitment of cable and Tivo to offer a tuning adapter is just another example. Obsolescence? Quite the contrary.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16017578
> 
> 
> I just received the following email from TW: April 1 is the day, no fooling!




Hey hook, just got that e-mail too!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16018565
> 
> 
> Hey hook, just got that e-mail too!



I got a direct response from clicking on that email link when I requested 2 within minutes.


Is this really a cable company?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16014627
> 
> 
> Watching the news on channel 5 tonight, I see that the black line is back on the bottom of the screen. Except this time it is not seen on ABC HD programming, just local HD(the news) and local SD upconvert commercials. If you're a regular reader, you know this is my "peeve" with WEWS. Every few months or so, this happens. Usually it is fixed. But now, it is really irritating to see that line down there. Especially on the news when you're seeing different video with unclean edges and graphics that do not go all the way to the bottom.
> 
> 
> 5 is very strange. Either the picture is pushed too far UP and we get that black line at the bottom of the screen or the picture is pushed down and we can see the blanking lines at the top of SD upconvert. Personally, I'd rather see the blanking lines at the top of the screen instead of the black bar.



On my TV I only see the blanking lines on top. I never saw this black line on the bottom. BTW: when you do see blanking lines it means that the source is not true HD. This is how I can tell which camera they used in news gathering. Even if it's in 16X9, I can see a partial blanking line on the top left hand side of the 16X9 picture. It goes away when the shot changes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16018035
> 
> 
> Agreed. I had a DirecTV Tivo and that's when I fell in love with the simplicity and interface and relibility that the box provided. Then I went to the cable co. and greatly missed all that with their boxes. So when a good deal on an HD tivo came up I jumped on it. Yes it is a pricey alternative, but the quality of the product and the commitment to it's customers is well worth it. The joint commitment of cable and Tivo to offer a tuning adapter is just another example. Obsolescence? Quite the contrary.



Did you ever have Passport on TWC?

















When I had D*, I didn't have a DVR. But the UI on their regular, non-DVR boxes was horrible. It was so confusing and had too many menus. Passport was much more user friendly than non-Tivo DirecTV. The first DVR I used was from TWC with SA and Passport. I fell in love with the Passport system(since I considered the Passport guide on non-DVR boxes to be the BEST). And since it was the same, it worked for me. Now with Navigator I am starting to fall in love. The most recent upgrade on MDN gives it a new color scheme that is similar to Passport. Also, it is a much more stable DVR than it has been in the past.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16018939
> 
> 
> On my TV I only see the blanking lines on top. I never saw this black line on the bottom. BTW: when you do see blanking lines it means that the source is not true HD. This is how I can tell which camera they used in news gathering. Even if it's in 16X9, I can see a partial blanking line on the top left hand side of the 16X9 picture. It goes away when the shot changes.



Have you looked at it recently? When I was watching last night, on all local content(outside of ABC programming) didn't have the top of screen blanking. But it did have a black line on the bottom of the screen.


I usually don't see the blanking lines at all on news, except for SD video used. But last night at 11 there was a solid black line at the bottom of the screen.


If you look at WEWS right now, you can see the black line since the afternoon ABC soaps are SD upconvert.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16017578
> 
> 
> I just received the following email from TW: April 1 is the day, no fooling!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Valued Customer,
> 
> 
> We would like to thank you once again for choosing Time Warner Cable as your cable service provider. According to our records, you have pre-ordered a Tuning Adapter via our website ( www.timewarnercable.com/tuningadapter ). We are happy to announce that Tuning Adapters will be available in your area after April 1, 2009.
> 
> 
> Below you will find additional information about the Tuning Adapter, which will allow you to access services delivered using switched digital video (SDV) technology using your CableCARD-equipped TiVo® Series3, TiVo HD, or TiVo HD XL digital video recorder (DVR).
> 
> 
> As you know, we have begun to deliver certain channels using SDV, a two-way technology that makes it possible for us to offer many additional services, including new HD channels and HD versions of popular existing channels, to our customers.
> 
> 
> As we have described to you before, the current generation of CableCARD-compatible devices sold at retail, which includes HD TiVo DVRs, is only capable of accessing our one-way services. The Tuning Adapter is designed to work in conjunction with your CableCARD-equipped HD TiVo DVR to allow you to receive programming delivered using SDV technology (but not our other interactive features) while you continue to enjoy all the features of your TiVo. TiVo Tuning Adapters will be available after April 1, 2009.
> 
> 
> Upon request, we will provide you with a Tuning Adapter for each of your CableCARD-equipped HD TiVo DVRs at no charge.You will continue to pay the standard lease rate for your CableCARD(s).Over the next few weeks, we'll be contacting you via e-mail and/or telephone to arrange for free FedEx® shipping of your Tuning Adapter(s).
> 
> 
> The tuning adapters will be available after April 1, 2009. Should you have questions in the interim,please e-mail us at [email protected] or call 330.572.4116.
> 
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable is constantly looking for ways to serve you better. We thank you for your continued support.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Liz Watson
> 
> 
> Director of Marketing
> 
> Time Warner Cable



See, maybe, just maybe, SDV will go as Mr. Jascoe said it was planned. I think it's very promising that they are sending a letter about SDV Tuning Adapters to someone in the Adelphia area. I'm gonna take that to mean that SDV is in the works there as we speak. Somebody posted the other day that a SARA box said SDV Enabled: True. Just because there are no numbers or data on that screen doesn't rule out SDV. When it started here, it was enabled bu inactive for a LONG time. Although I assume they have things going better now than when they first started.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16019366
> 
> 
> See, maybe, just maybe, SDV will go as Mr. Jascoe said it was planned. I think it's very promising that they are sending a letter about SDV Tuning Adapters to someone in the Adelphia area. I'm gonna take that to mean that SDV is in the works there as we speak. Somebody posted the other day that a SARA box said SDV Enabled: True. Just because there are no numbers or data on that screen doesn't rule out SDV. When it started here, it was enabled bu inactive for a LONG time. Although I assume they have things going better now than when they first started.



What they said was SDV ENABLED: READY. I just checked today and everything is exactly the same. All other pages say no, N/A or 0. Cable cards interestingly enough arn't even active on the box.


----------



## hookbill

I think it's great that the boxes are here, I think it's a good sign that SDV will be available sooner then I thought, I still say it won't be on SARA. It just doesn't make sense. You want to unify the system not divide it and TW would not have control over the software if it stays with SARA. It has to change to Navigator and I still see that as some type of problem.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16019539
> 
> 
> What they said was SDV ENABLED: READY. I just checked today and everything is exactly the same. All other pages say no, N/A or 0. Cable cards interestingly enough arn't even active on the box.









































Either you're reading it wrong or that box is seriously screwed up. The cable card HAS to be active or else it wouldn't work. Like a Tivo the HDC boxes use the cable card for the POD ID#.


As for SDV, it can be enabled but still have no other data. There usually isn't data until channels are actually deployed on SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16019571
> 
> 
> I think it's great that the boxes are here, I think it's a good sign that SDV will be available sooner then I thought, I still say it won't be on SARA. It just doesn't make sense. You want to unify the system not divide it and TW would not have control over the software if it stays with SARA. It has to change to Navigator and I still see that as some type of problem.



And I still say it doesn't! Like I've said before, there are other systems in the same situation that use both software. A system in NC is running SDV and more HD channels across both systems. **SARA IS CAPABLE OF TWC ADD-ONS LIKE START OVER, CALLER ID, ETC!!**


Even your contact said she is unsure if/when they will do Navigator. Navigator takes some time. They still haven't even updated the OCAP boxes here yet. OCAP boxes are still running the "old" Navigator. I doubt that TWC would make such a ballzy statement about adding channels in April(the website and a direct email in the Erie thread confirm this) if they were not going to have SDV active in all areas.


I'm not saying that I 100% believe TWC but I also don't think they would make such a big statement they might have to take back. There's supposed to be 7 or 8 channels added at the end of April.


----------



## hookbill

You can think and believe whatever you want nickdawg. I don't know how to read the diagnostic screen? I'm mistaken about the cable cards?


I guess you can read the data right off my box, right?


I tell you what I see. The cable cards show inactive. Not like my TiVo cable cards. And why the hell does that box have two cable cards in it? It can only show one channel at a time.


When I check that card data I put it on STO to make sure I'm on a known SDV channel in your area. Regardless of whether it's on STO or any other channel the SDV data is the same.


And again it doesn't make sense to have SARA and Navigator because TW cannot control SARA, that comes from SA. Now that doesn't mean it won't happen, it just doesn't make sense.


We don't have SDV in this area. I'll let you know when we do. Hopefully it's not until after I get my tuner adapters.


----------



## nickdawg

SARA/ODN have different screens than Tivo. Maybe it is listed differently? You probably know too much about Tivo, as I'd be confused to death if I had to use a Tivo!










On ODN, the cable card screens are Enabled and have numbers associated with it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16020239
> 
> 
> SARA/ODN have different screens than Tivo. Maybe it is listed differently? You probably know too much about Tivo, as I'd be confused to death if I had to use a Tivo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On ODN, the cable card screens are Enabled and have numbers associated with it.



Now I don't know too much about TiVo?

















Look I tell you what the cards say, and they say they are inactive. How much clearer can I make it to you?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16015731
> 
> 
> Cable Co's: For the love of GOD, with all of your new found "technology", give us the option to turn this needless crap OFF!!!!



Toby, EAS is an FCC Requirement.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16020281
> 
> 
> Now I don't know too much about TiVo?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look I tell you what the cards say, and they say they are inactive. How much clearer can I make it to you?



NO! You know *TOO MUCH* about Tivo. As in you are fixated on it and know all the menus and cable card settings. It must be hard to adapt to primitive machines like 8300HDC and 4250HDC!
























I know more about TWC equipment than any normal person should!


----------



## yespage

nickdawg & hookbill, please... just get a room. This whole TWC thing has gotten very very old. Can we please keep on topic?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/16022428
> 
> 
> nickdawg & hookbill, please... just get a room. This whole TWC thing has gotten very very old. Can we please keep on topic?



Let me explain something to YOU. We are discussing the changes in the way television HD is going to be made in our area. If you don't like it, go to another forum. It is relevant to the title of the thread.


I've stuck up for you a couple of times, how dare you come down on me.


Maybe nickdawg is right and you are a troll.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16019539
> 
> 
> *snip*Cable cards interestingly enough arn't even active on the box.*snip*



No offense hookbill, but I am with nickdawg on this one. There is absolutely no way that the cablecard can be inactive in these HDC boxes or else you would have no service.


With the HDC boxes, the whole idea was to be compliant to that one stupid regulation made by the FCC some time ago where the security functions in these boxes could no longer be embedded and unremovable so it was then parted out to cablecards just like every other cablecard device on the planet. The HDC boxes don't have any facilities outside of the cablecard to talk to and authenticate to the headend and get your service.


Just like your tivo; Without a cablecard you aren't getting any channels, period. (Well, with the tivo you might be able to do Clear QAM channels, but that's another story)


(EDIT: I also understand this OCAP garbage is another reason for these HDC boxes being developed, but it's just another 'tick on the todo list for engineering these things)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16022540
> 
> 
> No offense hookbill, but I am with nickdawg on this one. There is absolutely no way that the cablecard can be inactive in these HDC boxes or else you would have no service.
> 
> 
> With the HDC boxes, the whole idea was to be compliant to that one stupid regulation made by the FCC some time ago where the security functions in these boxes could no longer be embedded and unremovable so it was then parted out to cablecards just like every other cablecard device on the planet. The HDC boxes don't have any facilities outside of the cablecard to talk to and authenticate to the headend and get your service.
> 
> 
> Just like your tivo; Without a cablecard you aren't getting any channels, period. (Well, with the tivo you might be able to do Clear QAM channels, but that's another story)
> 
> 
> (EDIT: I also understand this OCAP garbage is another reason for these HDC boxes being developed, but it's just another 'tick on the todo list for engineering these things)



I am replying via blackberry I am sitting in front of diagnostics screen. Page 1 key val: success m card I'd:nonehost auth: none authorization state: DISABLED. HOST AUTH: NONE


Every spot on the next 2 pages is no none n/a or none.


I don't understand it. I agree with you. I'm just telling you what it says.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/16022428
> 
> 
> nickdawg & hookbill, please... just get a room. This whole TWC thing has gotten very very old. Can we please keep on topic?



Umm, what do you think we're discussing here? The latest fashion?





















NO! We're talking about *HDTV* on the *Cleveland Ohio HDTV Forum*.


What is it with the drive by insults at the regulars?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16021314
> 
> 
> Toby, EAS is an FCC Requirement.



I'm aware of EAS.










from your FCC link:

"...to offer to the President the communications capability to address the American public during a national emergency. *The system also may be used by state and local authorities* to deliver important emergency information such as AMBER (missing children) alerts and emergency weather information targeted to a specific area."


National Emergency I completely understand. By all means, interrupt my Cartoon Network program to inform me the Russians have launched 420 ICBM's and we are instructed to put our heads between our legs and kiss our collective asses goodbye. No problem with that.










My problem is with the over intrusive usage of this EAS (which the FCC statement claims is optional, not mandated) for NON EMERGENCY Weather and Amber alerts. Put a little "W" or "A" in the upper left hand corner of the screen. If you are the paranoid type you can tune to ch 15 and read all the details of the impending "catastrophic, end of the world" thunderstorm headed your way. But then the rest of us, less worried about imminent death and destruction, can go about our lives and enjoy our program.


What is not needed is the big ass red bar, across the entire screen, scrolling print about the storm, ending with "turn to ch 15 for more details". This is especially intrusive when the world is only coming to an end in Huron County. Why does the entire system have to be informed of a thunderstorm in Huron? It doesn't even affect 95% of the viewers? They can target market commercials down to a few zip codes, they can't do the same with these silly warnings??


I've made it this far not wearing seat belts and no helmet on my motorcycle. My hobbies include skydiving, bungee jumping, whitewater rafting, and playing "cat & mouse" with the State Troopers on the Turnpike. I've never run to the basement due to tornado warnings. So I like my odds with snow and thunderstorms, and I really don't need the nanny-state to protect me, especially in such a silly, unnecessary and overly intrusive manner.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16024194
> 
> 
> By all means, interrupt my Cartoon Network program to inform me the Russians have launched 420 ICBM's and we are instructed to put our heads between our legs and kiss our collective asses goodbye. No problem with that.



Personally, I'm a lot more worried about the Canadians. They're getting too close.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16022991
> 
> 
> Umm, what do you think we're discussing here? The latest fashion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO! We're talking about *HDTV* on the *Cleveland Ohio HDTV Forum*.
> 
> 
> What is it with the drive by insults at the regulars?



His pattern is come in, take a shot, then disappear for a while. I've noticed that.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16024393
> 
> 
> Personally, I'm a lot more worried about the Canadians. They're getting too close.



HA! LOL










And I lose just as much sleep over a Canadian or Russian attack/invasion as I do about impending weather problems.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16022759
> 
> 
> I am replying via blackberry I am sitting in front of diagnostics screen. Page 1 key val: success m card I'd:nonehost auth: none authorization state: DISABLED. HOST AUTH: NONE
> 
> 
> Every spot on the next 2 pages is no none n/a or none.
> 
> 
> I don't understand it. I agree with you. I'm just telling you what it says.



Well, I just double checked my 8300HDC just now and aside from page 15 (second from last) which indeed has a lot of N/A or None status messages, all of the other cablecard related pages have the expected working status messages. So honestly I have no clue either. Not busting your chops or anything, but it would be a huge feat for the box to work without the cablecard. But as with everything else on these HDC boxes, who the h*ll knows.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16025345
> 
> 
> Well, I just double checked my 8300HDC just now and aside from page 15 (second from last) which indeed has a lot of N/A or None status messages, all of the other cablecard related pages have the expected working status messages. So honestly I have no clue either. Not busting your chops or anything, but it would be a huge feat for the box to work without the cablecard. But as with everything else on these HDC boxes, who the h*ll knows.



See I only have 3 pages of cable card info. That's it. I have about 3 pages of SDV info. I understand your not busting my chops, I don't get it either.


I was probably wrong about 2 cards, obviously it has an M card in it so it wouldn't show any activity on slot 2, but it isn't showing anything in slot 1.


I don't know how this damn thing works!







That's SA for you.


----------



## Vchat20

Also, on the subject of the EAS messages: I am gonna play devils advocate here and say I think it's a GREAT feature. Though here in legacy territory it's been greatly underused at least in comparison to what it seems from the claims of those here who are mostly congregated around Adelphia territory.


Basically the feature allows TWC to get an alert out: EAS, Amber alert, or otherwise along with a channel of audio to anyone with a set-top and have it display on any channel including playback of previously recorded programs, on demand programming, or even special application channels once those start coming back to us.


The only reason it may seem intrusive is the fact that we really have not had much happen in this area in quite a long while that has dictated use of the EAS system to a wide degree. I haven't seen any really life threatening storms here in quite some years. But it doesn't mean it's not possible and is one EXTREMELY good reason to have this feature especially if it happens to come to having a sudden breakout of tornadoes or such.


I remember way back when I still had Passport on both one of the single tuner DCT Pioneer boxes and the SA8000 DVR where when the feature was used it would even turn the box on to display it and the scrolling message would even use the Passport 'infobar' UI and scroll the text in a vertical fashion along with superimposing the classic EAS warning message and tones over the audio of whatever channel was on. The pioneer box was in my bedroom and the tv was powered and switched through the box so when it came on, so did the tv and I'd hear it and even wake up for it. This was always something I liked so god forbid something really bad happened in the middle of the night while fast asleep, I'd still have a chance of knowing about it.


Yeah, Northern Ohio is a bit of a boring area when it comes to this stuff. But EAS is a national thing and FCC mandated. It's a good thing for better or worse. I'd much rather have it and live with a little bit of extraneous use than get rid of it.


toby: I have no idea why they are displaying weather alerts for the whole region rather than specific headends. The only thing that comes to mind is maybe the alert message itself was not specific or the headends were laid out just precisely where each one fell under the coverage of that message so it seemed like it went out to everyone and not narrowed down? You have to remember that these systems are automated and have to be for their focus. Not like they have someone on the payroll in a cramped and pitch black 5'x5' room with a computer sitting there 24/7 and his job description is to meticulously say which specific boxes out of the thousands out there in the region should get the alert.


----------



## bassguitarman

The EAS crap being overdone is just another reason people are abandoning "old media" . I totally agree the whole amber alert thing is totally overdone. Heck if their local cops who are supposed to be looking for "them" cant find them I'm sure not getting off my couch to look.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16025761
> 
> 
> The EAS crap being overdone is just another reason people are abandoning "old media" .



Uhhh? You think THIS is a reason people are abandoning "old media" as you call it? That's a pretty huge claim. I would much sooner bet on stuff like the economy, increasing rates, f*cked up content providers jacking up their rates and increasing ad time, ever decreasing fair use rights...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16025761
> 
> 
> Heck if their local cops who are supposed to be looking for "them" cant find them I'm sure not getting off my couch to look.



But what if you happened to just be out somewhere and happened to spot something relevant to the alert? Would you not care then? Yeah, sitting at home is another story. But it's not unbelievable to see something outside the house. Especially something such as a specific make and color of a car which is often a normal detail to see in these amber alerts especially for kidnappings. And it's not like they can have cops watching every single square inch of the area especially when the person may even be on the move (kidnapped or otherwise).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16025467
> 
> 
> ...............
> 
> Yeah, Northern Ohio is a bit of a boring area when it comes to this stuff. But EAS is a national thing and FCC mandated. It's a good thing for better or worse. I'd much rather have it and live with a little bit of extraneous use than get rid of it.
> 
> 
> toby: I have no idea why they are displaying weather alerts for the whole region rather than specific headends. The only thing that comes to mind is maybe the alert message itself was not specific or the headends were laid out just precisely where each one fell under the coverage of that message so it seemed like it went out to everyone and not narrowed down? You have to remember that these systems are automated and have to be for their focus. Not like they have someone on the payroll in a cramped and pitch black 5'x5' room with a computer sitting there 24/7 and his job description is to meticulously say which specific boxes out of the thousands out there in the region should get the alert.



And that's all well and good for true "life threatening" events. NOT every damn thunderstorm that comes within 100 miles of me!










How about just putting it on only during commercials? Add a "W-15" to stations without commercials. If it is so damn necessary and so needed why have they not implemented a program to dial EVERY phone number within the "affected" area with a weather warning message?


I guess those watching a DVD or not watching TV at all are not worth saving?










How about giving me the option to dismiss the warning once presented like I can dismiss my caller ID on my TV? "Ok, thank you for informing me of snow fall in January in NEO. You have yet again saved my life. But I'm informed now and require no further updates on this storm."


It's silly, not implemented in a common sense manor, and is WAY overused for basic weather events.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16025821
> 
> 
> Uhhh? You think THIS is a reason people are abandoning "old media" as you call it? That's a pretty huge claim. I would much sooner bet on stuff like the economy, increasing rates, f*cked up content providers jacking up their rates and increasing ad time, ever decreasing fair use rights...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what if you happened to just be out somewhere and happened to spot something relevant to the alert? Would you not care then? Yeah, sitting at home is another story. But it's not unbelievable to see something outside the house. Especially something such as a specific make and color of a car which is often a normal detail to see in these amber alerts especially for kidnappings. And it's not like they can have cops watching every single square inch of the area especially when the person may even be on the move (kidnapped or otherwise).



Again, that all sounds warm and cozy. But if an Amber alert was implemented cuz a kid goes missing in Mentor why am I being bothered in Strongsville?


It's *SILLY*.


They keep doing these Amber alert things, too often and constantly bothering people WAY far away from the actual problem area and NOONE will pay attention to them. Cry wolf???


----------



## Vchat20

Like I said, I have no idea how the Adelphia/Comcast areas up that way have the whole thing set up. And I agree if it is being so widely and haphazardly used like you claim, it is a bit much.


What I do know though is that it is used much more sparingly and more tactly down here in legacy territory. In fact, the only time I have seen it run for a number of years now is just for an EAS test message which is run maybe once every 3 or 4 months.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16026354
> 
> 
> Like I said, I have no idea how the Adelphia/Comcast areas up that way have the whole thing set up. And I agree if it is being so widely and haphazardly used like you claim, it is a bit much.
> 
> 
> What I do know though is that it is used much more sparingly and more tactly down here in legacy territory. In fact, the only time I have seen it run for a number of years now is just for an EAS test message which is run maybe once every 3 or 4 months.



I'm on WOW. But I'd bet if your TV viewing were interrupted as I originally described (5 evenings IN A ROW, big ass RED banner across the screen) you might feel a little differently.


----------



## ed1202

Just received this e-mail this morning:


Good Morning-


If I got a box to you prior to April 1, would you be a 'tester' to see if our instructions for installation make sense?


Thank you--Jeanie


so... apparently I may be a beta tester for the tuning adapter.







We'll see.


----------



## nickdawg

EAS and Amber alert:


First, EAS. I'm not so mad at the banner on screen. I MORE Pissed at the g-damn noise that accompanies the banner. I watch TV at night, that's usually when it happens. BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPP!!!! BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPP!! BBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPP!! BEEEEEEP BEEEEEEEEEEEPP BEEEEEEEEEPP!!!


Sorry about that, my post was interrupted by an EAS test!!




























Whenever that happens, instead of reading their damn message I'm busy trying every button to DISMISS that banner. How about doing away with the loud, abrasive beeping? Or using a shorter, less obnoxious one?


The other thing I cannot stand is when they play an audio track. I heard this one time during a tornado warning. These assclowns had some kind of garbled, police scanner sounding audio. It sounded like the NWS or someone reading the weather warning---through a CB radio. Couldn't understand a word! Thanks for blocking the audio on my show for that s---!










Now, the Amber Alert system, don't even get me started on that POS. It started out with good intentions. A way to notify the public when there is a kidnapping. But of all the times I've seen it used, it was used for no reason or it was not effective.


The damn Amber Alert should be called a Jerry Springer Alert. I get tired very fast of seeing messages interrupting my shows just to tell me that a child was kidnapped, BY HER DAD!! That's right, people's dysfunctional custodial bulls... causes me to miss my shows. I'll tell you what, when a kid is kidnapped by a STRANGER or some pervert, THEN you can interrupt my show!










Also, it is usually ineffective. One night while watching Jay Leno they had that AA bulls... on the screen. They're telling us to be ON THE LOOKOUT for a person and a vehicle at *12:20* AFTER MIDNIGHT!!! Oh yes, we're all gonna be able to see a person and a car they mentioned from our houses. POINTLESS!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16026354
> 
> 
> Like I said, I have no idea how the Adelphia/Comcast areas up that way have the whole thing set up. And I agree if it is being so widely and haphazardly used like you claim, it is a bit much.
> 
> 
> What I do know though is that it is used much more sparingly and more tactly down here in legacy territory. In fact, the only time I have seen it run for a number of years now is just for an EAS test message which is run maybe once every 3 or 4 months.



More like 3 or 4 times every month!







I've seen it several times a month, at different times. Sometimes at night, sometimes in the morning, maybe even afternoon







. The strangest time was when it came on right before Good Company. Then WKYC ran their own EAS test too.


----------



## bassguitarman

But what if you happened to just be out somewhere and happened to spot something relevant to the alert? Would you not care then? Yeah, sitting at home is another story. But it's not unbelievable to see something outside the house. Especially something such as a specific make and color of a car which is often a normal detail to see in these amber alerts especially for kidnappings. And it's not like they can have cops watching every single square inch of the area especially when the person may even be on the move (kidnapped or otherwise).[/quote]


I dont watch TV in my car

So again how relevant is it to me sitting in my living room

NOT

Funny thing is I do listen to the car radio and seldom hear amber alerts.

So that speaks to the discussion, come on cable operators, instead of broadcasting every EAS bulletin from a 12 county area lets limit it to my city !


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16026643
> 
> 
> More like 3 or 4 times every month!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen it several times a month, at different times. Sometimes at night, sometimes in the morning, maybe even afternoon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The strangest time was when it came on right before Good Company. Then WKYC ran their own EAS test too.



I generally appreciate those EAS alerts. Yes, it might be annoying to have my favorite show interrupted, but when it happens, it means that Real Life is knocking at the door, and I'd much rather know what's up so I can make my own decisions about it's potential impact on myself and my family.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16027216
> 
> 
> But what if you happened to just be out somewhere and happened to spot something relevant to the alert? Would you not care then? Yeah, sitting at home is another story. But it's not unbelievable to see something outside the house. Especially something such as a specific make and color of a car which is often a normal detail to see in these amber alerts especially for kidnappings. And it's not like they can have cops watching every single square inch of the area especially when the person may even be on the move (kidnapped or otherwise).



I dont watch TV in my car

So again how relevant is it to me sitting in my living room

NOT

Funny thing is I do listen to the car radio and seldom hear amber alerts.

So that speaks to the discussion, come on cable operators, instead of broadcasting every EAS bulletin from a 12 county area lets limit it to my city ![/quote]

Back in the day, when I was in L.A. and listened to 94.7 KMET the disk jockeys would say before an Emergency Broadcast System alert "In order to keep the paranoia at a proper level"...........










I don't see all these alerts. I just see the ones the stations use. I think I've seen maybe 2 cable alerts when I was watching my DVR.


----------



## hookbill

Let me state first that I do not watch WOIO "Action News," but because I record Judge Judy and there simply isn't anything else I remotely want on the television I put it on as background noise.


I may start watching Oprah, or Ellen, or something. Anything.


At 6:17 pm while I was eating dinner, as I'm sure many others in Northeast Ohio were doing they ran a story about a law the Cleveland City Council was going to consider on, get this, and stop reading if you are eating, drinking urine. They proceeded to then go into detail about some clown who was shutting off the water in some toilets somewhere and then after people got done doing their thing this clown drank the urine.


Gross. I mean major gross, unnecessary and what timing. The on air people are laughing saying "hope you wern't eating during that story." WTF do people do around 6 to 7 pm? OMG, I hear they are on twitter I'm gonna look them up and post on it if I can find them. Outrageous.


If they didn't have the majority of the shows I watch I would boycott CBS. I might write CBS. Something, that was just too much.


----------



## nickdawg

Why not just watch "Judge Judy" live?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16029425
> 
> 
> Why not just watch "Judge Judy" live?



Because I want to actually "watch" her and I can't do that when I'm running around the house. Anyway this happened at 6:00 news I could have changed the channel, I just have it on I don't think about it.


----------



## hookbill

I blasted channel 19 on twitter, I don't expect a response from them.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16029457
> 
> 
> Because I want to actually "watch" her and I can't do that when I'm running around the house. Anyway this happened at 6:00 news I could have changed the channel, I just have it on I don't think about it.



Ohhh, I see. Court shows really are shows you have to "watch". Especially Judy. I like what she says.


For 6pm TV, I recommend Channel 3 News.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16029480
> 
> 
> Ohhh, I see. Court shows really are shows you have to "watch". Especially Judy. I like what she says.
> 
> 
> For 6pm TV, I recommend Channel 3 News.



Next time you get sarcastic remember to use the rolleyes.










Thanks for your advise nickdawg.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16029245
> 
> 
> I generally appreciate those EAS alerts. Yes, it might be annoying to have my favorite show interrupted, but when it happens, it means that Real Life is knocking at the door, and I'd much rather know what's up so I can make my own decisions about it's potential impact on myself and my family.



Agreed. Not to mention that if you have a DVR, it's easier to rewind what you missed after it's over with since the on-box alerts aren't captured in the recording. At least you DO have that option.


----------



## nickdawg

Hey, I really do like Judge Judy and other court shows. That wasn't sarcastic!


----------



## nickdawg

I think EAS needs to go the same route as analog TV: extinction. It's a pointless annoyance. It was a necessary thing in the days before 24 hour news and the internet. Now, it's just another annoyance. The TV stations do a good enough job letting us know whenever there is a cloud in the sky within 500 miles of Cleveland!










EAS is so pointless, that even in the biggest national disaster on September 11, 2001 it was not used.


----------



## ed1202

Well got home from work, went upstairs to use the 8300HD box for the first time since finally getting it connected and...










what's with the GUI? It kinda, sorta "looks" like passport in layout terms but the graphics are horrendous. My Commodore 64 had better graphics than this. What happened to Navigator? Could this be SARA? I don't know because I've never seen SARA. If it is, why's she so ugly?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16031492
> 
> 
> Well got home from work, went upstairs to use the 8300HD box for the first time since finally getting it connected and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what's with the GUI? It kinda, sorta "looks" like passport in layout terms but the graphics are horrendous. My Commodore 64 had better graphics than this. What happened to Navigator? Could this be SARA? I don't know because I've never seen SARA. If it is, why's she so ugly?




I'd its purple its sara ck back a few pages for info to access diag screen.


----------



## nickdawg

SARA is one sexy MILF compared to the crusty, old NAVIGATOR I have on my SA 4250HDC box!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16029476
> 
> 
> I blasted channel 19 on twitter, I don't expect a response from them.



Did you ever get a response? I actually googled that wretched twitter site and searched out 19 action news. Didn't see anything about that story.


I can't believe I looked at Twitter!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16031817
> 
> 
> Did you ever get a response? I actually googled that wretched twitter site and searched out 19 action news. Didn't see anything about that story.
> 
> 
> I can't believe I looked at Twitter!



Nope they did Not respond.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16029245
> 
> 
> I generally appreciate those EAS alerts. Yes, it might be annoying to have my favorite show interrupted, but when it happens, it means that Real Life is knocking at the door, and I'd much rather know what's up so I can make my own decisions about it's potential impact on myself and my family.



For true "emergencies" absolutely! But if you consider snow and thunderstorms emergencies then get a weather radio and/or sign up for weather alerts on your cell phone.


My problem is how it is overused and poorly implemented, at least on my WOW system.










My decision is that 99% of these warnings/alerts have zero impact on me, so give me the option to decide to dismiss it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16032419
> 
> 
> For true "emergencies" absolutely! But if you consider snow and thunderstorms emergencies then get a weather radio and/or sign up for weather alerts on your cell phone.
> 
> 
> My problem is how it is overused and poorly implemented, at least on my WOW system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My decision is that 99% of these warnings/alerts have zero impact on me, so give me the option to decide to dismiss it.



It's only going to get worst. Starting this Summer they will be advising us about getting too much sun so there will be warnings at night about excessive daylight in the Summer. If the UV index gets too high they are going to warn us to prevent massive out breaks of melanoma.


This is 100% true. You guys know I would never lie to you.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16032491
> 
> 
> It's only going to get worst. Starting this Summer they will be advising us about getting too much sun so there will be warnings at night about excessive daylight in the Summer. If the UV index gets too high they are going to warn us to prevent massive out breaks of melanoma.
> 
> 
> This is 100% true. You guys know I would never lie to you.



Yup. Silliness run amok.


----------



## Vchat20

You clevelandites astound me. Like looking at some odd alien civilization in a parallel universe.










From all of us in legacy land: WE COME IN PEACE! (Well, maybe except nickdawg...)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16032515
> 
> 
> You clevelandites astound me. Like looking at some odd alien civilization in a parallel universe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From all of us in legacy land: WE COME IN PEACE! (Well, maybe except nickdawg...)



Hey, how do you think I feel. I'm from Southern California. I've only lived in this area since 2004.


I did move out of L.A. though in 1997. It's all good we got Manny!!!!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16032529
> 
> 
> Hey, how do you think I feel. I'm from Southern California. I've only lived in this area since 2004.
> 
> 
> I did move out of L.A. though in 1997. It's all good we got Manny!!!!



Hey, as long as Grady and Pronk stay, I'm happy win or lose.







But who knows with this stupid manager. The only saving grace is the long contracts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16032591
> 
> 
> Hey, as long as Grady and Pronk stay, I'm happy win or lose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But who knows with this stupid manager. The only saving grace is the long contracts.



To keep on topic, I like watching the tribe in HD and I hope Pronk gets his stroke back. At least I know I'll be able to watch in HD now that the word is out about the tuning converter for TiVo, if I couldn't get STO during baseball season I'd be bummed.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16029327
> 
> 
> Let me state first that I do not watch WOIO "Action News," but because I record Judge Judy and there simply isn't anything else I remotely want on the television I put it on as background noise.



Here's a suggestion...TURN YOUR FREAKIN' TV OFF ONCE IN A WHILE!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16032793
> 
> 
> Here's a suggestion...TURN YOUR FREAKIN' TV OFF ONCE IN A WHILE!



I do it's not on now.


It's not on for me in the afternoon, it's for the birds. In the morning and early afternoon they like music.


Funny they like the same things I do!


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16031541
> 
> 
> I'd its purple its sara ck back a few pages for info to access diag screen.



Yes it's purple. Ok, then.



> Quote:
> SARA is one sexy MILF compared to the crusty, old NAVIGATOR I have on my SA 4250HDC box!!



Now _that_ was funny, nickdawg...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16034473
> 
> 
> Yes it's purple. Ok, then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now _that_ was funny, nickdawg...



Geeze Ed, don't encourage him.


Sounds like you still have SARA then.


----------



## ed1202

Here's an update on the tuning adapter:

_Good Afternoon,


I hope to have my back end systems set up by the 20th. Hopefully, the week of the 23rd, I could drop off a TA and some instructions to you and see how the process works in 'reality'. Also, you may get some follow up phone calls from our Tech Training Department.


Sound good?_


So we seem to be on our way, gentlemen!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16034530
> 
> 
> Here's an update on the tuning adapter:
> 
> _Good Afternoon,
> 
> 
> I hope to have my back end systems set up by the 20th. Hopefully, the week of the 23rd, I could drop off a TA and some instructions to you and see how the process works in 'reality'. Also, you may get some follow up phone calls from our Tech Training Department.
> 
> 
> Sound good?_
> 
> 
> So we seem to be on our way, gentlemen!



Outstanding, consider yourself lucky.


----------



## nickdawg

Now on network HD programming too!! Tonight I was watching 20/20 in HD on WEWHD. I notice first that the bug is too far up from the bottom of the screen. And under that is a HUGE black line! I measured it and on my TV screen it is about 1/2 to 3/4 an inch. It's not an overlayed line, the picture is pushed up on screen. Several shots looked funny because heads were too close to the top of the screen. Long story short, I flipped back to the analog version of the channel. Looks perfect. Obviously TWC is still using the analog version of WEWS, since nothing is wrong with the SD channel. That is where my TV remained for the rest of the show.


I'd really like to know what the hell is going on over at that Mickey Mouse TV station. I've seen that black line several times. It's been fixed several times.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Back in the day, when I was in L.A. and listened to 94.7 KMET the disk jockeys would say before an Emergency Broadcast System alert "In order to keep the paranoia at a proper level"...........



I remember WMMS (or was it WNCR) back in the early 70's running "patriotic" music under the required message after an EBS test and reading it in a sarcastic voice (...the broadcasters in your area in voluntary cooperation...). If it was "voluntary" why did they get fined for not following the strict regulations regarding EBS tests?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16039496
> 
> 
> Now on network HD programming too!! Tonight I was watching 20/20 in HD on WEWHD. I notice first that the bug is too far up from the bottom of the screen. And under that is a HUGE black line! I measured it and on my TV screen it is about 1/2 to 3/4 an inch. It's not an overlayed line, the picture is pushed up on screen. Several shots looked funny because heads were too close to the top of the screen. Long story short, I flipped back to the analog version of the channel. Looks perfect. Obviously TWC is still using the analog version of WEWS, since nothing is wrong with the SD channel. That is where my TV remained for the rest of the show.
> 
> 
> I'd really like to know what the hell is going on over at that Mickey Mouse TV station. I've seen that black line several times. It's been fixed several times.



I'm beginning to think this black bar may be isolated to your model TV. I never see it on my SDTV. I watch the HD feeds in letterbox and can see all the artifacts on both the top and bottom of the picture. Outside of the VBI at the top of an SD originated video I do not see that black bar.


One thing I have noticed, for the first time, is no VBI on late night programs (Matlock). That is definitely an SD program, perhaps it's so old it did not have any information on it's VBI (i.e. no closed captioning). It was a perfect 4X3 rectangle (actually it looked a little bit smaller than the usual 4X3). BTW: if you are wondering why I had not zoomed a 4X3 program to fill my screen, I did not watch the program, I was just going through the channels before shutting off the TV for the night. If I was going to watch this program I would zoom it to full screen (but then I'd miss all the artifacts







)


----------



## Michael P 2341

WUAB pulled the screen with the "This TV Cleveland" message from 43.2. It's now just a blank screen. Does anybody know what's up with that? The EPG on my 622 still says "Off air". It said that when the message was up.


I wonder if anything fell through concerning This TV and WUAB?


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16039496
> 
> 
> Now on network HD programming too!! Tonight I was watching 20/20 in HD on WEWHD. I notice first that the bug is too far up from the bottom of the screen. And under that is a HUGE black line! I measured it and on my TV screen it is about 1/2 to 3/4 an inch. It's not an overlayed line, the picture is pushed up on screen. Several shots looked funny because heads were too close to the top of the screen. Long story short, I flipped back to the analog version of the channel. Looks perfect. Obviously TWC is still using the analog version of WEWS, since nothing is wrong with the SD channel. That is where my TV remained for the rest of the show.
> 
> 
> I'd really like to know what the hell is going on over at that Mickey Mouse TV station. I've seen that black line several times. It's been fixed several times.



Nickdawg,

Check your Screen settings menu on your TV to see if you can alter the amount of overscan your TV shows. On my Sony z4100 the screen scale can be set to "full pixel", "normal", +1, +2, -1, -2 and the screen is "zoomed" accordingly smaller or larger. On full pixel I get a bar on ther top and bottom of an HD image. I have to dig deep into the setting menu to find this. YMMV.

Ray


----------



## black88mx6

I am in Hinckley, and received my notice today from Time Warner Cable that SDV is coming beginning April 9th. There is a large list of channels that will be moving to SDV, and that I will need to exchange my cable cards for new HD basic converters if I wish to continue to receive these channels.


Since I will keep my cable cards due to my dislike of cable boxes, and their built in tuners, I will be forced to give us some of the channels that I watch while still paying for them. A case like this for me would be good for a la cart services, as I know that a "cable card" based tier will not be offered.


Until tru2way services are offered in our area, I will continue to be disappointed in current generation digital services.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16042455
> 
> 
> I am in Hinckley, and received my notice today from Time Warner Cable that SDV is coming beginning April 9th. There is a large list of channels that will be moving to SDV, and that I will need to exchange my cable cards for new HD basic converters if I wish to continue to receive these channels.
> 
> 
> Since I will keep my cable cards due to my dislike of cable boxes, and their built in tuners, I will be forced to give us some of the channels that I watch while still paying for them. A case like this for me would be good for a la cart services, as I know that a "cable card" based tier will not be offered.
> 
> 
> Until tru2way services are offered in our area, I will continue to be disappointed in current generation digital services.



The large amount of channels you refer to should only contain a couple of HD channels, however one of them I believe is STO so if your a tribe fan you may want to take the box.


I really don't see why you don't want the box. I've been using it for my wife's HD television and for all purposes I think it works just fine.


Who knows when Tru 2 way will be offered. Sony is the one behind this, I've never fully understood it to be honest.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16040563
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to think this black bar may be isolated to your model TV. I never see it on my SDTV. I watch the HD feeds in letterbox and can see all the artifacts on both the top and bottom of the picture. Outside of the VBI at the top of an SD originated video I do not see that black bar.
> 
> 
> One thing I have noticed, for the first time, is no VBI on late night programs (Matlock). That is definitely an SD program, perhaps it's so old it did not have any information on it's VBI (i.e. no closed captioning). It was a perfect 4X3 rectangle (actually it looked a little bit smaller than the usual 4X3). BTW: if you are wondering why I had not zoomed a 4X3 program to fill my screen, I did not watch the program, I was just going through the channels before shutting off the TV for the night. If I was going to watch this program I would zoom it to full screen (but then I'd miss all the artifacts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



What provider do you use? TWC, OTA, D*, E* or other? If you're not TWC that may be the problem. I remember reading here before that something was wrong with WEWS HD and it was only on TWC, since they get a fiber feed from the station.


On my TV I have an option called "H/V Position Adjust". It can move from -15 to +15 horizontally and from +30 to -30 vertically. Normally this is always set to 0 for both(for a normal picture). Even setting the vertical position all the way to -30, there still is a slight line at the bottom of the screen.


I too have a SDTV with a HD box connected. When I watch that TV, I notice that the bottom bar is bigger than the top bar.


Edit, it is on that TV too. I put a piece of masking tape on the SDTV screen at the bottom of the picture inside the letterbox bars. Of all the channels I flipped through, only WEWS looked like that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16042455
> 
> 
> 
> Until tru2way services are offered in our area, I will continue to be disappointed in current generation digital services.



...Or you can just get a cable box right now and enjoy the best our current generation of digital services offer. You'd get all the channels including the existing ones that have moved to SDV and new channels in SDV. Eventually all the new HD channels TWC adds will be SDV. You're missing all the new HD channels. And of course other features like the program guide, the channel banner, Video on Demand and DVR service.


For you, I'd say your best option would be either Directv or Dish(if you're that phobic of TWC boxes). Even those satellite companies are better than TWC without a cable box. Analog channels, no IPG, no thanks! The 80s are gone, we're moving on!


----------



## hookbill

I see a black line on the bottom of WEWS too. I'll check when they go network at 4:30 and get back to you.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16042544
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows when Tru 2 way will be offered. Sony is the one behind this, I've never fully understood it to be honest.



Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see this, or at least not as a generally accepted thing like cable boxes. There's too much with tru 2 way that doesn't make sense. The biggest thing I can think of is variations in TV models. Does anyone have a *TV* remote with A, B, C buttons or a little blue Select button(as pictured in the cable company OS)? There would have to be a standardization between TV manufacturers to make sure buttons like "Play, Pause, Stop, FF, etc" are included on remotes for VOD services. That's just an aesthetic issue.


The technical problem is the software. First of all, I *will not* be first in line to get TWC's Navigator directly downloaded to my TV.







Second, the cable company's firmaware is not the only thing running. There's also OCAP software and middleware for OCAP on these settop boxes. Right now since all the boxes belong to TWC and are the same, they handle all these upgrades. With a tru 2 way system, the end user would be responsible for middleware updates. Remember, we're talking about customers who have to be asked *if they plugged the cable box into the wall* by TWC phone representatives! And now these people are supposed to know what to do with middleware updates?
























And of course my biggest gripe with owning cable equipment: obsolete technology. The thing I hate most about electronics, especially computers. A few months(or less) later, something better comes along. At least with TWC I can trade in an old box for a newer one when one comes along. When the Samsung DVRs come along, those stuck with the crappy HDC boxes (or anyone) can upgrade for FREE. Even products like Tivo are more consumer friendly by providing tuning adapters to remedy problems.


One thing is certain, next years TVs will be better. And the year after that. And then you're STUCK with it until it breaks.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16042889
> 
> 
> I see a black line on the bottom of WEWS too. I'll check when they go network at 4:30 and get back to you.



I'm watching a show on WEWS right now. It is SD and letterbox, with a HUGE amount of black space at the bottom and a skinny top letterbox bar. Do they not have a HD monitor in the building? It should be EMBARRASSING that this product is being put out.


Wheel of Fortune just started, the line is still there, a bit smaller, but still there on recorded HD.


----------



## hookbill

Well WEWS didn't go network at 4:30, they did go HD Wheel of Fortune and there is no black line on my HD set.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16043066
> 
> 
> Well WEWS didn't go network at 4:30, they did go HD Wheel of Fortune and there is no black line on my HD set.



Your TV must have more overscan than mine. I still see a small line. Not as big as before, but it is still present.


----------



## hookbill

I just got the SDV letter today too. It indeed does give a firm date of 4/9/2009 as the start of SDV.


On the other side of the letter is the affected channels and many channels will be affected on HD, A&E FOOD, HDTV HISTORY UNIVERSAL HD NET HD NET MOVIES and MOJO (Somebody should inform TW it's no longer MOJO







). Many of the HBO channels no Showtime channels are involved. All Encore channels seem to be switching.


Letter also mentions that the Tuner Adapter is available for TiVo users 4/1. It tells cable card tv owners to either get a box or take a hike, as we were told previously.


So if this date stays firm SDV is right around the corner, which would explain the delay on the second group of HD channels they are going to give us that nobody cares about. It will be interesting to see how the SARA/Navigator thing plays out.


----------



## shooter21198

I guess that explains why those channels (HD, A&E FOOD, HDTV HISTORY UNIVERSAL HD NET HD NET MOVIES and MOJO (Somebody should inform TW it's no longer MOJO ). Many of the HBO channels no Showtime channels are involved. All Encore channels seem to be switching.) aren't currently working or something


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16043294
> 
> 
> I guess that explains why those channels (HD, A&E FOOD, HDTV HISTORY UNIVERSAL HD NET HD NET MOVIES and MOJO (Somebody should inform TW it's no longer MOJO ). Many of the HBO channels no Showtime channels are involved. All Encore channels seem to be switching.) aren't currently working or something



All those channels are indeed working in my area and I checked with my TiVo not my cable box. If they were SDV now I wouldn't be able to get them.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16043256
> 
> 
> I just got the SDV letter today too. It indeed does give a firm date of 4/9/2009 as the start of SDV.
> 
> 
> On the other side of the letter is the affected channels and many channels will be affected on HD, A&E FOOD, HDTV HISTORY UNIVERSAL HD NET HD NET MOVIES and MOJO (Somebody should inform TW it's no longer MOJO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Many of the HBO channels no Showtime channels are involved. All Encore channels seem to be switching.
> 
> 
> Letter also mentions that the Tuner Adapter is available for TiVo users 4/1. It tells cable card tv owners to either get a box or take a hike, as we were told previously.
> 
> 
> So if this date stays firm SDV is right around the corner, which would explain the delay on the second group of HD channels they are going to give us that nobody cares about. It will be interesting to see how the SARA/Navigator thing plays out.



See Hookbill. It looks like those channels will be coming on time, as they announced in that email on the Erie thread. The 3/31 batch may be in the existing bandwidth for some areas, but I'll bet the 4/29 batch will be SDV in all areas. Now that the tuning adapters are here(on 4/1), they can finally start utilizing the SDV system for popular channels. Many of the channels on my list are not SDV yet, and I can guarantee it is because of tuning adapters. They wouldn't make CNN, FOX News and the entire HD tier SDV without tuning adapters.


Also, do not expect Navigator before 4/9. I can guarantee that it is impossible to do it in the time we have left. TWC only downloads to one MODEL of box per week, just in case the box gets bricked during the download. That way they don't have a major crisis on their hands. However, for me I haven't had any serious issues with TWC updates.


----------



## nickdawg

I don't get the Encore channels, but according to my NAVIGATOR diagnostic screen, they are all SDV. The channel name even has SDV in it.


----------



## nickdawg

Just in case anyone needs it again:

http://www.timewarnercable.com/north.../ordersdv.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043322
> 
> 
> See Hookbill. It looks like those channels will be coming on time, as they announced in that email on the Erie thread. The 3/31 batch may be in the existing bandwidth for some areas, but I'll bet the 4/29 batch will be SDV in all areas. Now that the tuning adapters are here(on 4/1), they can finally start utilizing the SDV system for popular channels. Many of the channels on my list are not SDV yet, and I can guarantee it is because of tuning adapters. They wouldn't make CNN, FOX News and the entire HD tier SDV without tuning adapters.



That letter doesn't mean a thing until it actually happens. How can you possibly rely on the accuracy of this letter that was obviously drawn up so long ago they didn't even bother to change MOJO to MGM?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043322
> 
> 
> Also, do not expect Navigator before 4/9. I can guarantee that it is impossible to do it in the time we have left. TWC only downloads to one MODEL of box per week, just in case the box gets bricked during the download. That way they don't have a major crisis on their hands. However, for me I haven't had any serious issues with TWC updates.



You crack me up nickdawg. You don't work for TW, you have no idea what they can or can't do in between now and that date.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16042544
> 
> 
> The large amount of channels you refer to should only contain a couple of HD channels, however one of them I believe is STO so if your a tribe fan you may want to take the box.
> 
> 
> I really don't see why you don't want the box. I've been using it for my wife's HD television and for all purposes I think it works just fine.
> 
> 
> Who knows when Tru 2 way will be offered. Sony is the one behind this, I've never fully understood it to be honest.



The HD channels listed in my area are as follows, it is more than just a couple.


433 Big Ten Network

435 SportTime Ohio

436 HD Sports

444 A&E HD

445 HGTV HD

446 Food HD

447 History HD

470 Universal HD


As for the box, there are a few reasons, but to me they are big.


1. The cable box acts as the TV's tuner for SD and HD material. Compared to the TV's built in internal tuner with a cable card, the cable box picture quality sucks (regardless of input type or box type). Current generation internal tuners are optimized for that panels resolution etc, and use much better components than those of cable boxes.


2. The extra cables and power requirements of a cable box makes the setup more complex than it needs to be. Hanging a tv on the wall works best with just one power outlet and a cable connection. Having another remote around doesn't help either.


4. Small TV's for use in the kitchen don't need to have separate boxes that again use power and valuable counter space.


5. The extra cost of renting cable boxes make adding additional TV's more expensive over their lifetime. Cable boxes also draw power even when turned off, adding to your electric bill.


6. We are not talking about 80's technology here, we are talking about cable cards. This technology is less than 5 years old, and works well. Low pickup of this was due to cable companies dislike of the product because it lacked high profit options like PPV.


Tru2way will be the next cable card for those of us that wish to use one. Unfortunately, Time Warner has decided to force SDV upon us without having this new alternative available in this area yet.


BTW, Sony was on of the last mfg to sign on to the Tru2way - they are not the developers. OCAP and Tru2way is part of the OpenCable initiative, and that is managed by CableLabs. Cable labs board of directors is the CEO list of most cable companies.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16043391
> 
> 
> You crack me up nickdawg. You don't work for TW, you have no idea what they can or can't do in between now and that date.



I lived through the navigator transition last year. The old Pioneer box I had got Navigator on 3/18. The SA 8300HD got Navigator in the last week of April. In all that time, one box was upgraded per week. Do I need to list all the equipment? I will.


SA (MDN)

8000

8000HD

8300

8300HD

3150

3150HD

3250HD

2000


Pioneer (MDN)

BD-V1000


SA-OCAP (ODN)

8300HDC

4250HDC


And I'm sure it only gets worse in the ex-Adelphia areas where equipment from smaller companies is left over. Plus there's Motorolla equipment in some areas that would have to be upgraded or replaced. You see Hook, I had a good feeling they were going to wait on Navigator. SDV is their main concern. If they can run SDV on what's there now, they'll do it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16043436
> 
> 
> The HD channels listed in my area are as follows, it is more than just a couple.
> 
> 
> 433 Big Ten Network
> 
> 435 SportTime Ohio
> 
> 436 HD Sports
> 
> 444 A&E HD
> 
> 445 HGTV HD
> 
> 446 Food HD
> 
> 447 History HD
> 
> 470 Universal HD
> 
> 
> As for the box, there are a few reasons, but to me they are big.
> 
> 
> 1. The cable box acts as the TV's tuner for SD and HD material. Compared to the TV's built in internal tuner with a cable card, the cable box picture quality sucks (regardless of input type or box type). Current generation internal tuners are optimized for that panels resolution etc, and use much better components than those of cable boxes.
> 
> 
> 2. The extra cables and power requirements of a cable box makes the setup more complex than it needs to be. Hanging a tv on the wall works best with just one power outlet and a cable connection. Having another remote around doesn't help either.
> 
> 
> 4. Small TV's for use in the kitchen don't need to have separate boxes that again use power and valuable counter space.
> 
> 
> 5. The extra cost of renting cable boxes make adding additional TV's more expensive over their lifetime. Cable boxes also draw power even when turned off, adding to your electric bill.
> 
> 
> 6. We are not talking about 80's technology here, we are talking about cable cards. This technology is less than 5 years old, and works well. Low pickup of this was due to cable companies dislike of the product because it lacked high profit options like PPV.
> 
> 
> Tru2way will be the next cable card for those of us that wish to use one. Unfortunately, Time Warner has decided to force SDV upon us without having this new alternative available in this area yet.
> 
> 
> BTW, Sony was on of the last mfg to sign on to the Tru2way - they are not the developers. OCAP and Tru2way is part of the OpenCable initiative, and that is managed by CableLabs. Cable labs board of directors is the CEO list of most cable companies.



It would have saved you some typing if you read the thread, I already listed the HD channels.










As far as Tru2way goes, I'm just going by what I remember a long time ago. No argument here from me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16043436
> 
> 
> 
> As for the box, there are a few reasons, but to me they are big.
> 
> 
> 1. The cable box acts as the TV's tuner for SD and HD material. Compared to the TV's built in internal tuner with a cable card, the cable box picture quality sucks (regardless of input type or box type). Current generation internal tuners are optimized for that panels resolution etc, and use much better components than those of cable boxes.



Disagree. My TV looks horrible in comparison to the cable box. If I tune to channel 54-Duscovery on the TV tuner, it's analog. Awful. If I tune to 54 or 130 on the cable box, it's digital. Night and day difference. I've never seen a cable card. I'm doubtful there's any difference. Hookbill, ever see a PQ difference between the Tivos and the TWC box?


The way to make the cable box picture look better is to disable AUTO (native resolution tuning) if you use HDMI. With Component, disable 480 i/p. 480 i/p look horrible on HDTV sets. If you have a 720p set, use 720p. If you have a 1080i set, use 1080i.



> Quote:
> 2. The extra cables and power requirements of a cable box makes the setup more complex than it needs to be. Hanging a tv on the wall works best with just one power outlet and a cable connection. Having another remote around doesn't help either.



Using HDMI, it would be one cable. Using Component, the Y, Pr, Pb are three cables attached together. L/R audio are the same.


For me, I could care less about the number of cables. It's spider web spaghetti city behind my TV with the TV, cable box, DVR player, surround sound system. Not having a cable box would do nothing to clear up that mess.


Actually, the TWC remote allows me to use LESS remotes. The SA DVR remote controls my TV, DVR, surround system volume and DVD. Plus there's a button if you had a VHS machine. If I used my TV tuner, I'd need two remotes(one for surround sound volume and one for TV controls).



> Quote:
> 4. Small TV's for use in the kitchen don't need to have separate boxes that again use power and valuable counter space.



Agreed here. I don't have a HDTV in the kitchen. But when I do, it will have a box. Right now I can get away with having it connected to the RF output of one of my other cable boxes, doing a "simulcast".



> Quote:
> 5. The extra cost of renting cable boxes make adding additional TV's more expensive over their lifetime. Cable boxes also draw power even when turned off, adding to your electric bill.



It's a cost I'm willing to pay, especially for the DVR, to have the 'security blanket' that if anything goes wrong, I can get a FREE replacement. Also, I know I'm going to have the latest technology(software updates, equipment updates) without buying and re-buying equipment. And the electricity, give me a break!! Almost everything uses some electricity when turned off. Unless you unplug EVERYTHING when you're not home, it's a moot point.



> Quote:
> 6. We are not talking about 80's technology here, we are talking about cable cards. This technology is less than 5 years old, and works well. Low pickup of this was due to cable companies dislike of the product because it lacked high profit options like PPV.



Umm, if you can't get all the channels currently available, it might as well be. It's absurd to pay for cable service and not be able to access all the channels. A few bucks more on a cable box is worth it, to get all the new HD channels.



> Quote:
> Tru2way will be the next cable card for those of us that wish to use one. Unfortunately, Time Warner has decided to force SDV upon us without having this new alternative available in this area yet.



I'm glad TWC didn't piss in the wind(and on their customers) and wait for some far-fetched idea. Oooohhhh, I'm really gonna be crying about how SDV was "forced" on me as I watch USA HD and Discovery HD!










Normally I don't defend TWC, but in these cases I do. I 100% agree with them NOT signing on tru2way. OCAP was enough of a nightmare that set us back. In the summer of 2007 they had to get that set up. Maybe we would have had SDV sooner? Even Mr. Jascoe pointed out OCAP as one of the delays. If they had to deal with this tru2way crapola, we'd still be waiting for SDV and new channels. We wouldn't even be THIS far along!!


Normally I despise Big Business, but in this case I defend it. I pay a buttload of money for the service I have. I want HDTV channels, HBO, a DVR, a program guide on the TV in my bedroom. Because I pay for these cable boxes, I am ENTITLED to these SDV channels that go along with it. I get mad at "clear QAM" when people want more without paying more. I can think of a certain person I "got into it with" over USA HD last summer!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16043501
> 
> 
> It would have saved you some typing if you read the thread, I already listed the HD channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as Tru2way goes, I'm just going by what I remember a long time ago. No argument here from me.



Hey Hookbill, can you scan that channel list/letter and post it here? I'd like to see what channels are on your list. I think it might be different, because I don't remember FOOD, HGTV or History being on the SDV list.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043673
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, can you scan that channel list/letter and post it here? I'd like to see what channels are on your list. I think it might be different, because I don't remember FOOD, HGTV or History being on the SDV list.



I will get that for you. TW did sign on for tru2way. It will replace SDV.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, tru2way won't replace SDV. It'll only make SDV more broadly available since it is essentially the capabilities of the current TW provided set-tops embedded in tv sets and consumer owned dvr's (non-tivo, this would be in the future market). Basically a two way tuner (finally), cablecard slot, and a separate internal 'box' to run OCAP applications. The functions for SDV are part of whatever OCAP applications are pushed to the system (in this case, Navigator)


long story short, it's the current cablecard capable tv's but with an embedded HDC/OCAP box. SDV will still be around since bandwidth is a luxury with these cable systems. Just tru2way will aid in making it more broadly available to the consumer base.


OCAP is the way of the future. The unfortunate thing though is that, being based on java, it has hefty resource requirements. And with the OCAP capable boxes still being in their infancy, the currently available models (mainly the 8300HDC and 4250HDC and possible some others. The newest unavailable Samsung and SA boxes exempt) have extremely low amounts of ram, processing power, etc. and is why Navigator is such a painful mess on them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16043779
> 
> 
> Actually, tru2way won't replace SDV. It'll only make SDV more broadly available since it is essentially the capabilities of the current TW provided set-tops embedded in tv sets and consumer owned dvr's (non-tivo, this would be in the future market). Basically a two way tuner (finally), cablecard slot, and a separate internal 'box' to run OCAP applications. The functions for SDV are part of whatever OCAP applications are pushed to the system (in this case, Navigator)
> 
> 
> long story short, it's the current cablecard capable tv's but with an embedded HDC/OCAP box. SDV will still be around since bandwidth is a luxury with these cable systems. Just tru2way will aid in making it more broadly available to the consumer base.



You're correct I should have said replace it as we know it today. In any case it will get here.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> Disagree. My TV looks horrible in comparison to the cable box. If I tune to channel 54-Duscovery on the TV tuner, it's analog. Awful. If I tune to 54 or 130 on the cable box, it's digital. Night and day difference. I've never seen a cable card. I'm doubtful there's any difference. Hookbill, ever see a PQ difference between the Tivos and the TWC box?



There is a big difference between the tuners in a Viso TV and a high end Pioneer or Sony XBR. Since you have never compared the difference between a cable card tv and cable box then I understand why you defend cable boxes. I have an open invitation for you to compare pictures on my Sony XBR1 or my Mitsubishi LCD's.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> The way to make the cable box picture look better is to disable AUTO (native resolution tuning) if you use HDMI. With Component, disable 480 i/p. 480 i/p look horrible on HDTV sets. If you have a 720p set, use 720p. If you have a 1080i set, use 1080i.



These setting are a no-brainer, a polished turd is still a turd.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> Using HDMI, it would be one cable. Using Component, the Y, Pr, Pb are three cables attached together. L/R audio are the same.
> 
> 
> For me, I could care less about the number of cables. It's spider web spaghetti city behind my TV with the TV, cable box, DVR player, surround sound system. Not having a cable box would do nothing to clear up that mess.



Using HDMI is not just one cable; it is coax to cable box to HDMI to tv. Plus the extra power cable. My wall setups are clean with just one cable, there is no spider web and it is very simple to work on and keep clean. The TV hangs on the wall and looks like it is floating there. There are no cables to be seen. It is very easy to pull the TV out from the wall for different viewing angles, and still there is no mess.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> Actually, the TWC remote allows me to use LESS remotes. The SA DVR remote controls my TV, DVR, surround system volume and DVD. Plus there's a button if you had a VHS machine. If I used my TV tuner, I'd need two remotes(one for surround sound volume and one for TV controls).



I have one remote, either the TV's original, or a Harmony. Not some cheap unit that comes from the cable company that may or not be programable and you can't see in the dark.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> Agreed here. I don't have a HDTV in the kitchen. But when I do, it will have a box. Right now I can get away with having it connected to the RF output of one of my other cable boxes, doing a "simulcast".



And right now your avoiding the cost of an extra box too.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> It's a cost I'm willing to pay, especially for the DVR, to have the 'security blanket' that if anything goes wrong, I can get a FREE replacement. Also, I know I'm going to have the latest technology(software updates, equipment updates) without buying and re-buying equipment. And the electricity, give me a break!! Almost everything uses some electricity when turned off. Unless you unplug EVERYTHING when you're not home, it's a moot point.



Too bad it's really not the latest technology, it's built cheap from the components to the Navigator software. Time Warner will never give you the good stuff. This stuff is setup to work for everyone. It is the lowest common denominator of hardware and it has to work for everyone. It is probably the cheapest piece of hardware in your home theater setup.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> Umm, if you can't get all the channels currently available, it might as well be. It's absurd to pay for cable service and not be able to access all the channels. A few bucks more on a cable box is worth it, to get all the new HD channels.



Your right it's absurd to pay for cable services and not be able to access them; that is why I have no problem asking for a significant discount for my service. I do pay for quality, not quantity. I do not feel that a cable box rental per month is worth it, just like not all HD channels are worth the bandwidth they use. SDV by design will not work for popular channels, this is why I believe that TWC will be adding some more quality NON SDV HD channels soon. Based on what I pay per month it may still be worth it to be a TWC cable card customer



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> I'm glad TWC didn't piss in the wind(and on their customers) and wait for some far-fetched idea. Oooohhhh, I'm really gonna be crying about how SDV was "forced" on me as I watch USA HD and Discovery HD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally I don't defend TWC, but in these cases I do. I 100% agree with them NOT signing on tru2way. OCAP was enough of a nightmare that set us back. In the summer of 2007 they had to get that set up. Maybe we would have had SDV sooner? Even Mr. Jascoe pointed out OCAP as one of the delays. If they had to deal with this tru2way crapola, we'd still be waiting for SDV and new channels. We wouldn't even be THIS far along!!



The technology is out now and available, TWC did sign on for tru2way, they just have not deployed it yet. Remember who made ocap -- Cablelabs. TWC's CEO is one of the board members. OCAP is in effect a TWC product, and one way or another they will eat their own dogfood.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16043664
> 
> 
> Normally I despise Big Business, but in this case I defend it. I pay a buttload of money for the service I have. I want HDTV channels, HBO, a DVR, a program guide on the TV in my bedroom. Because I pay for these cable boxes, I am ENTITLED to these SDV channels that go along with it. I get mad at "clear QAM" when people want more without paying more. I can think of a certain person I "got into it with" over USA HD last summer!



I am paying for it also, with three cablecard TV's that are less than 5 years old. So I am somehow not ENTITLED to these services also? If TWC can-not deliver the services I am interested in, then I will get them from services like HULU and NETFLIX and other content providers that bypass traditional closed cable (Big Business) companies who continue to force to "rent" their equipment.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16043779
> 
> 
> Actually, tru2way won't replace SDV. It'll only make SDV more broadly available since it is essentially the capabilities of the current TW provided set-tops embedded in tv sets and consumer owned dvr's (non-tivo, this would be in the future market). Basically a two way tuner (finally), cablecard slot, and a separate internal 'box' to run OCAP applications. The functions for SDV are part of whatever OCAP applications are pushed to the system (in this case, Navigator)
> 
> 
> long story short, it's the current cablecard capable tv's but with an embedded HDC/OCAP box. SDV will still be around since bandwidth is a luxury with these cable systems. Just tru2way will aid in making it more broadly available to the consumer base.
> 
> 
> OCAP is the way of the future. The unfortunate thing though is that, being based on java, it has hefty resource requirements. And with the OCAP capable boxes still being in their infancy, the currently available models (mainly the 8300HDC and 4250HDC and possible some others. The newest unavailable Samsung and SA boxes exempt) have extremely low amounts of ram, processing power, etc. and is why Navigator is such a painful mess on them.



In short the government is forcing open cable standards. Cable cards was one step, OCAP is cable card v2.0


Surveys have shown that cable users want to simplify things and in general dislike cable boxes. If you didn't "have" to have one, would it still be sitting there? Do you want to rent this box each month?


My complaint here is the slow adaption and now abandonment of the original cable cards in less than 5 years. Without an alternative like tru2way, it makes cable service no different than satellite service. If I am forced to have a BOX, then I will pick the service with the best picture and programming and price.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, the reason why the first version of the cablecard standard is being abandoned for tru2way is largely because none of the tv manufacturers or box makers bothered to put 2 way tuners in their equipment to accomodate these known advancements. Even the first gen single stream cablecards are perfectly capable of 2 way services. It just takes having a 2 way tuner to take advantage of it. It was 'optional' and because it saved them 2 pennies per set, they went the cheaper route. Now it's mandatory with tru2way and there's no way around it.


Same way with Tivo but at least they are pushing for a tuning adapter to make existing boxes compatible.


I hate having an ugly box around as well, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new set. I'd much sooner pay a $6 a month fee instead of $1500 for a new set. Not to mention that if something breaks, I get a free replacement. Try that if, say, the disk drive in your next generation dvr embedded tru2way plasma croaks.


You seem like you have the disposable income for it. Sell the tv's, wait it out for the tru2way sets, then upgrade.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16044208
> 
> 
> Actually, the reason why the first version of the cablecard standard is being abandoned for tru2way is largely because none of the tv manufacturers or box makers bothered to put 2 way tuners in their equipment to accomodate these known advancements.



I don't know how true this is, as I remember quite a few of the first and second generation HDTV's had cable cards. What I remember was that the cable companies and cable labs were forced to make them available. This was ordered by the FCC to try and open up the cable box monopolies. Then the TV mfg started putting them in sets, and the cable companies refused to support them. After a couple of years the TV mfgs started taking them out, because of cost and low take-up of the product. It was a high end product that never made it down to the low end TV's. I believe that this was 90% the fault of the cable companies based on my and many documented experiences of customers trying to get one installed. Look at all the people with TIVO's who have trouble getting these installed. These installs are SIMPLE, there is no excuse for customers having these troubles.


When I first called for one, they told me that they didn't support them. Then I got word that they were not working and causing problems. After insistance that I get one, TWC finally brought one out, but the guy was never trained on them. Once I walked him though the install, he called in the number, it then worked for 3 years now without problems.


I have three of these TV's with cable cards. I had a similar experience with the tech each time I ordered one.


I firmly believe that the cable companies dragged their feet purposely on cable cards. Cable cards could not support two way guides and PPV. If cable cards were taken up in mass the loss in PPV and VOD rentals would have really hurt their bottom line.


For now I will keep the cable cards, but I don't have to like how TWC or the cable industry handled this entire issue.


Another issue that is arising that many don't know about is the download caps on cable modems. TWC is now testing these caps in some markets, and I firmly believe that it is to stop legitimate video download or VOIP service over a TWC internet connection (ie Roadrunner). There is no way most people would be able to get video (SE or HD) though their XBOX, or HULU or Netflix without running into these caps. This directly competes with their own phone and VOD service, so they will do everything they can to try it kill it, just like cable cards.


----------



## Vchat20

Do some research and don't believe the armchair engineers words as truth. Cablecards have always been 2 way capable, but the devices they are put in need to have 2 way tuners. So far I have not seen any that have them.


With tru2way though, the whole premise is of course 2 way connectivity so they MUST use 2 way tuners or no certification.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16045286
> 
> 
> Do some research and don't believe the armchair engineers words as truth. Cablecards have always been 2 way capable, but the devices they are put in need to have 2 way tuners. So far I have not seen any that have them.
> 
> 
> With tru2way though, the whole premise is of course 2 way connectivity so they MUST use 2 way tuners or no certification.



Absolutely correct, TiVO has hardware for one way communication the tuner adapters will provide the meanS of allowing that hardware to work with SDV.


----------



## nickdawg

Getting your content through Hulu? Are you kidding!!! There's no way in HELL I'd watch that. I didn't get a high definition, high resolution TV to watch You Tube quality video on. Occasionally I will watch Bit Torrents when necessary, only because they are 800x???, a higher resolution that SDTV and online streaming. But not as high as 720p HDTV.


And back to my favourite thing, the black line. The G-damn thing was still there tonight during "Castle"







.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16044049
> 
> 
> ................
> 
> 
> Using HDMI is not just one cable; it is coax to cable box to HDMI to tv. Plus the extra power cable. My wall setups are clean with just one cable, there is no spider web and it is very simple to work on and keep clean. The TV hangs on the wall and looks like it is floating there. There are no cables to be seen. It is very easy to pull the TV out from the wall for different viewing angles, and still there is no mess.
> 
> ...........................



Same here, two wall mount applications, one with full surround sound speakers, not a cable in sight.

Though both TV's have multiple cables running too them.










Also the cablecard debacle is not just due to the cable co's resistance to accepting them, the cablecard mfr's and TV mfr's are also to blame for putting out products that often don't work well together. Almost every cable co that offers a cablecard has run into certain make/model/brand of TV's that simply do not work with their offered cablecard. This, in turn, has turned the consumer off to the entire concept.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16046140
> 
> 
> Same here, two wall mount applications, one with full surround sound speakers, not a cable in sight.
> 
> Though both TV's have multiple cables running too them.



Precisely. While I'm not nearly as nitpicky about this stuff as some other people, nor is my setup in a state worthy of taking cleanliness to a meticulous extreme, at least I know a number of ways to keep the box(es?) and cables and keep it all well hidden while functional so it certainly isn't an excuse. Even if an in-wall wiring setup is not an option, I've seen people use raceways painted to match the wall in order to conceal the power and A/V cables and it still looks really clean compared to just dangling wires. And the boxes are easy enough to hide and keep functional. Cabinets, IR extenders, IR-to-RF conversion...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16046140
> 
> 
> Also the cablecard debacle is not just due to the cable co's resistance to accepting them, the cablecard mfr's and TV mfr's are also to blame for putting out products that often don't work well together. Almost every cable co that offers a cablecard has run into certain make/model/brand of TV's that simply do not work with their offered cablecard. This, in turn, has turned the consumer off to the entire concept.



This is also another very valid and prime reason for cablecard's unfortunate failure that goes on the already expanding list. I'd also wager that, indirectly, a very loose cablelabs spec on the technology also led to these issues in the first place.


I haven't read up too much on the actual technical spec for either the original cablelabs spec or tru2way, but to me it seems they just left way too much to question and up to decision by the CE manufacturers with the original cablecard system. But with tru2way at least from the known mandates including 2 way hardware and OCAP support, they have made it all a bit more strict and thus (hopefully) more resilient against equipment manufacturers cutting corners to save a few dimes. Either they follow the spec as given to be certified and offer cablecard slots again, or get left out of the party.


On a completely separate note, I'm hoping some of these manufacturers start using mpeg decoders that do mpeg4 as well as mpeg2 if only for future proofing. While it's still a LONG ways off for cablecos, it's inevitable. This isn't even mentioning the fact that the ATSC specification has long had support for mpeg4 from the beginning as an optional codec (although just about every ATSC device out there can only do mpeg2).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16046176
> 
> 
> Precisely. While I'm not nearly as nitpicky about this stuff as some other people, nor is my setup in a state worthy of taking cleanliness to a meticulous extreme, at least I know a number of ways to keep the box(es?) and cables and keep it all well hidden while functional so it certainly isn't an excuse. Even if an in-wall wiring setup is not an option, I've seen people use raceways painted to match the wall in order to conceal the power and A/V cables and it still looks really clean compared to just dangling wires. And the boxes are easy enough to hide and keep functional. Cabinets, IR extenders, IR-to-RF conversion...........



Is a "raceway" those 1/4 circular things I've seen to hide the cables going up the wall? If so, yeah, those would be useful to help conceal the cable clutter. My setups are 100% in-wall including (not up to code) power outlets, but I had considered those painted-to-match wall covers to conceal the cables.


I agree about the IR extenders as well as a "must have" in such clean setups. All A/V components (save TV and speakers) are in built-in solid wood cabinets and completely hidden from view.


----------



## Vchat20

Aha. Took me a while to find it. But the photo this poster put up here is the exact thing I had in my head visually when this topic cropped up: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21725817- 


Take the boxes and hide them inside said cabinet and you can't tell me (unless you are overly anal) that those 'wiremolds' (I don't know the exact technical term for them. And now that I consider it, raceways are something entirely different. But that photo is what I was particularly referring to) would not be much cleaner and more desirable than dangling wires and boxes out in the open.


And like I said: Hide the boxes, get an IR extender, program a Harmony for every function of the full system. Bada bing, bada boom.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16046369
> 
> 
> Aha. Took me a while to find it. But the photo this poster put up here is the exact thing I had in my head visually when this topic cropped up: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21725817-
> 
> 
> Take the boxes and hide them inside said cabinet and you can't tell me (unless you are overly anal) that those 'wiremolds' (I don't know the exact technical term for them. And now that I consider it, raceways are something entirely different. But that photo is what I was particularly referring to) would not be much cleaner and more desirable than dangling wires and boxes out in the open.
> 
> 
> And like I said: Hide the boxes, get an IR extender, program a Harmony for every function of the full system. Bada bing, bada boom.



Yup, much cleaner look than just visible cables. Although, for *me*, I'd still go in-wall cabling even if the components were right below the TV as pictured (preferably hidden components), as the proximity of components to the TV would be a breeze project. This is exactly what we have in the bedroom.


Now doing an all in-wall A/V cabling setup where all A/V components are on a completely separate wall than the destination TV, now there is a project let me tell ya!


----------



## Vchat20

Very true. If in-wall is an option, that'd obviously be first to go for sure. And if the AV components were on a separate wall, even moreso! No yucky cables strung along the floor, around a corner, up the wall...


But even when some situations arise that negate that option; Such as what would probably be the case in my house where the tv and AV components are moved wall-to-wall on a semi-regular basis maybe a couple times a year; Those 'raceways' would still be a perfectly viable option depending on permanency (I'd imagine either average sized screws or adhesive. Both not much damage on the wall.) and keep the ugliness out of the equation.


Heck, as it is right now; Even though I still have the 'dangling cable blues'; I've at least looped up the cable slack and zip tied it to the back of the tv mount and it's at least kept a large amount of clutter out of it.


I think Home AV installation, just as is about any other situation, relies completely on ingenuity and invention. Without these, you'll never make it.










Anyways, we've strayed far enough off topic by now.







So how about that TWC huh? Can't wait to get those new channels.  (In all seriousness, I hope The Weather Channel HD hits the radar soon)


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16045402
> 
> 
> Getting your content through Hulu? Are you kidding!!! There's no way in HELL I'd watch that. I didn't get a high definition, high resolution TV to watch You Tube quality video on. Occasionally I will watch Bit Torrents when necessary, only because they are 800x???, a higher resolution that SDTV and online streaming. But not as high as 720p HDTV.



Hulu is an example, some of the content there is old SD stuff. They will stream at 480p, and since it is older material, it will never look any better.


If you want to see 720p, (HDTV) you can stream from myNBC. Either way, all that data will eat into your caps that TWC wants to restrict so that this video delivery model never takes off.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16046478
> 
> 
> Very true. If in-wall is an option, that'd obviously be first to go for sure. And if the AV components were on a separate wall, even moreso! No yucky cables strung along the floor, around a corner, up the wall...
> 
> 
> But even when some situations arise that negate that option; Such as what would probably be the case in my house where the tv and AV components are moved wall-to-wall on a semi-regular basis maybe a couple times a year; Those 'raceways' would still be a perfectly viable option depending on permanency (I'd imagine either average sized screws or adhesive. Both not much damage on the wall.) and keep the ugliness out of the equation.
> 
> 
> Heck, as it is right now; Even though I still have the 'dangling cable blues'; I've at least looped up the cable slack and zip tied it to the back of the tv mount and it's at least kept a large amount of clutter out of it.
> 
> 
> I think Home AV installation, just as is about any other situation, relies completely on ingenuity and invention. Without these, you'll never make it.



Indeed.










And they offer a great alternative if one is in an apartment/rental situation as well. Or, shop around for a wife/girlfriend that does not want to redecorate and move furniture around every other month.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16046369
> 
> 
> Aha. Took me a while to find it. But the photo this poster put up here is the exact thing I had in my head visually when this topic cropped up: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21725817-
> 
> 
> Take the boxes and hide them inside said cabinet and you can't tell me (unless you are overly anal) that those 'wiremolds' (I don't know the exact technical term for them. And now that I consider it, raceways are something entirely different. But that photo is what I was particularly referring to) would not be much cleaner and more desirable than dangling wires and boxes out in the open.
> 
> 
> And like I said: Hide the boxes, get an IR extender, program a Harmony for every function of the full system. Bada bing, bada boom.



Can this be done? Sure, will it ever look good, maybe.


All add extra complexity that is just not needed, and make it more difficult for each TV that is added to a house. The short of it for me, if I have to have a box, I would not use TWC for my video content.


----------



## Vchat20

To each his own...


Personally I'm one of those who is apologetic to TWC and other Cableco's on this specific topic. You don't have the option of no boxes on Sat or IPTV providers because it's technically not feasible (though it has been tried with boxes integrated into certain tv's, but failed epically.) and they have had the advantage of making that requirement right from the getgo. But because Cableco's started out the way they did with analog being directly compatible with cable ready tv's and has grandfathered that ability and probably continue to do so even past 2010, everyone is going apeshit because they are trying to move forward technologically.


At least with tru2way, we are slowly going back to the cable ready style days where all the equipment needed to get all the services the cable provider can give you is included in the tru2way sets. And just like the advent of cableready sets, it means either using an external tuner for existing sets or upgrade. Take your pick.


Honestly though, I think they should just go the way of this DTV transition and just shut off the full analog spectrum and tell people to live with it or shove it. But that'll never happen. The FCC would be all over them like **** on a pig.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16045402
> 
> 
> Getting your content through Hulu? Are you kidding!!! There's no way in HELL I'd watch that. I didn't get a high definition, high resolution TV to watch You Tube quality video on. Occasionally I will watch Bit Torrents when necessary, only because they are 800x???, a higher resolution that SDTV and online streaming. But not as high as 720p HDTV.



Honestly nickdawg, I think anyone who is bold enough these days to forego classic subscription tv service for the online video services has all their pros and cons lined up and are completely aware of what they are getting.


Just because you flipflop and can't stand anything but your perfect vision of what tv should be, doesn't mean everyone else does. And FYI, there is a large handful of 720p+ material on hulu if you look hard enough. So does youtube even for the properly uploaded videos. And while compression isn't the BEST with clearly noticable artifacts, it's livable if you realise ahead of time this is exactly what you are getting and don't raise expectations.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16046140
> 
> 
> Also the cablecard debacle is not just due to the cable co's resistance to accepting them, the cablecard mfr's and TV mfr's are also to blame for putting out products that often don't work well together.



Cablelabs designed the specifications for cablecards. Scientific Atlanta (now CISCO) and Motorola make them, along with the chipsets that allow the cable cards to work inside of the TV. This technology had to be licensed and certified with Cablelabs before it could be sold. Every device sold that had a cable card, had to be tested and certified by Cablelabs BEFORE it was sold. We already know who owns and operates Cablelabs, so who ultimately was at fault here?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16046528
> 
> 
> Can this be done? Sure, will it ever look good, maybe.
> 
> 
> All add extra complexity that is just not needed, and make it more difficult for each TV that is added to a house. The sort of it for me, if I have to have a box, I would not use TWC for my video content.



Well, "complexity" works both ways.










With a cablecard in the TV you now must get a digital line out from the TV to your AVR for surround. So much for your one cable solution.










But I do embrace the cablecard as a viable alternative to the cable STB where and when it can be used.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16046577
> 
> 
> I think anyone who is bold enough these days to forego classic subscription tv service for the online video services has all their pros and cons lined up and are completely aware of what they are getting.



While not replacing my subscription TV yet, it so far is good way to subsidize our family viewing, allowing me to keep a lower level of cable TV service. Those channels going SDV may not be missed as much.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16046594
> 
> 
> Cablelabs designed the specifications for cablecards. Scientific Atlanta (now CISCO) and Motorola make them, along with the chipsets that allow the cable cards to work inside of the TV. This technology had to be licensed and certified with Cablelabs before it could be sold. Every device sold that had a cable card, had to be tested and certified by Cablelabs BEFORE it was sold. We already know who owns and operates Cablelabs, so who ultimately was at fault here?



Don't know, and as a consumer I don't care.










We've had this very same discussion in here months ago. "Who is at fault". Blame Cablelabs, cable co's, TV mfr's, stb mfr's, .....whomever. Bottom line is that it was *very* glitchy and there were numerous problems and incompatibilities. Might be all worked out now, I dunno, but it was a BIG mess and consumers are quite turned off to the idea.







So much so that many TV mfr's stopped including Cablecard availability in their sets as consumer demand for it plummeted.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16046629
> 
> 
> Well, "complexity" works both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With a cablecard in the TV you now must get a digital line out from the TV to your AVR for surround. So much for your one cable solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I do embrace the cablecard as a viable alternative to the cable STB where and when it can be used.



True, but I only have one of my TV's setup this way. Others have sound bars, which do not require a home theater setup for them to sound good. Some of the TV's have HDMI connections for XBOX, and Media Center hardware, but all work as TV's without having to have any of this other equipment turned on.


Mine is not a crusade to bring back the cablecard, it is more of a request to get the alternatives out, and that having a box should not be the only way things can be done. TWC should be offering Tru2way now, and then allow its customers to transition from cablecard 1.0 setups. Too bad there is not enough of us around to scream loud like analog users would if they tried to pull the plug on it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16046708
> 
> 
> True, but I only have one of my TV's setup this way. Others have sound bars, which do not require a home theater setup for them to sound good. Some of the TV's have HDMI connections for XBOX, and Media Center hardware, but all work as TV's without having to have any of this other equipment turned on.
> 
> 
> Mine is not a crusade to bring back the cablecard, it is more of a request to get the alternatives out, and that having a box should not be the only way things can be done. TWC should be offering Tru2way now, and then allow its customers to transition from cablecard 1.0 setups. Too bad there is not enough of us around to scream loud like analog users would if they tried to pull the plug on it.



Same here, just the TV and cable box are turned on if I don't desire surround.

Soundbars are a great compromise, but a compromise nonetheless.










Again, I'm totally on your side with alternatives like Cablecard and True2Way. The more the better. But until the entire industry gets their act together and makes these alternatives a consumer friendly reality then it's all just wishful thinking.










The same is happening with the HDMI specs and CE devices utilizing HDMI. There are numerous problems, glitches, incompatibilities, and handshake issues with HDMI CE devices that are frustrating both consumers and professional home theatre installers. So much so that many home theatre installers are foregoing HDMI connections and going back to Component video connections simply because they want to avoid the customer service calls they will inevitably get when utilizing HDMI.


Like the idea and concept of Cablecards, HDMI is incredible and simplistic when it works (luckily, all my HDMI devices work fine). But when one HDMI device does not "play well with others" it becomes a consumer nightmare and who is to blame (finger pointing) is of little value to the operator who just wants to play a Barney DVD to stop his kid from crying!


----------



## hookbill

Per your request, nickdawg:


BeginninAgp ri9l ,2 009

Disney XD

Nick Toons

The N

PBS Kids Sprout

Boomerang

Nick Too

Discovery Kids

DIY

Fine Living

Access TV

Comer Store

ONry4U

Gems TV

America's Auction Network

Hollywood Celebrlty Products

CelebrityS hopping

TV Superstore

The Jewelry Channel

ShoppingP lus

Ovation

LifetimeR eaWl omen

TV One

VillageT V

Sleuth

BBC America

Cunent TV

LOGO

Fox Reality

Sundance

Flix

Encore

Encore Love

Encore Mysteries

102

104

105

108

109

110

111

157

158

185

186

147

188

189

190

191

192

193

194

210

211

218

225

226

227

228

281

282

290

291

292


Encore Drama

EncoreW AMI

EncoreW estems

EncoreA ction

FCS Atlantic

FCS Central

FCS Pacific

CollegeS portsT V

NHL Network

NBA TV

TennisC hannel

Fuel TV

Outdoor Channel

ccw-9

Word Network

INSP

I Life

Daystar

FamilyL and

TBN

TWC Infomercials

Big Ten Network HD

HD Sports

Sportslime Ohio HD

HD Sports

A&E HD

HGTV HD

Food HD

History HD

UniversaHl D

HD Net

HD Nei Movies

473 MOJO

485/710 HD PPV Events

610 HBOW

61 1 HBO2 W

612 HBOS ignatureW

613 HBO FamilyW

614 HBO ComedyW

615 HBO Zone W

741-754 NHLC enterl ce/MLB

761-770 NBA/MLS

781-7BOE SPNG ameP lan/FuCllo urt

801 Galavision

805 Mun2

uUCr Uanal JUr

807 CNN En Espafiol

808 History En Espaflol

809 DiscoveryE nE spaflol

810 La Familia

81 1 Disney XD En Espafrol

812 BoomerangE nE spaflol

813 ESPN Deportes

A14 Fox Snorts Fn Fsoafrol

815 MTV Tr3s

816 CineLatino

851 ART Arabic

652 fiAt tntemailonal

853 TV Asia

854 DWTV

455 Lee tv

857 Filipino Channel

858 TV5 Monde

859 TV Japan

860 TV Russia

293

294

295

296

319

320

321

322

324

32s

327

328

329

330

375

386

387

388

389

390

39'l

399

433

436

444

445

446

447

470

471

472


Sorry about the formatting, I had a bit of trouble with this. Also missing are 212, 221, 435 - STO HD Sports.


----------



## Vchat20

If it's one thing I have said a thousand times and will continue to say a thousand times more till I have every last person in this thread chanting it like zombified cable brains: *You can't please everyone all of the time!*


This particularly goes towards the arguments over the past few pages. TWC has limited bandwidth. This we all know. They have an upper limit of anywhere from 110-125 6MHZ channels that can either be used as analog NTSC, QAMs for any combination of SD or HD channels, QAMs for HSI download channels, and QAMs for Digital Phone channels. FYI: Upload channels for both HSI and Digital Phone as well as the digital cable return path are kept on the lowest frequencies well below analog channels 1 and 2 so don't count into the available 110-125 count.


Out of those 110-125 we currently have probably an average of 80 analog channels as a wild guess. This leaves 30-45 6MHZ channels left to share between HSI, Digital Phone, or combinations of SD/HD digital channels.


Now out of that 30-45 lets just say we have 1 spared for digital phone (per node, a single 38mbit feed for all customers in that area is probably WAY more than enough bandwidth without overloading the system) and then 4 for HSI download channel. Now we are down to 25-40 left just for digital tv services. And some of this, still, needs to be set aside strictly for VOD. Ok, take out another 5 for VOD.


20-35 left for tv channels. We know MAXIMUM we can fit 4 HD per QAM but realistically 3. And it's been a while but I seem to remember 10-12 SD per QAM. So figure out some combination thereof and do your own math.


See the problem?

*Now what am I trying to get at here?* Simple: TWC, with having such a large customer base plus investors/stockholders, they have to try and please as many people as possible within their feasible limits. And so far we have these people to please:
Those who want to keep around as much analog as possible.
Those who want more HD
Those who despise SDV and don't want it to take over
Those who want faster HSI speeds


I could go on. And for some, they even mix and match these priorities to the point of conflicting. You certainly can't keep tons of analog filled while adding more channels, more HD, and keep SDV out of it. Just not technically possible.


As far as I am concerned, TWC is taking a logical and reasonable set of plans to advance things within what limits they have been handed by cable gods. SDV is being implemented in a tip toed fashion. Their provided set tops are capable of it already. Tivo users will be getting the free tuning adapters soon to sort out that chunk of customers which will probably be right about the time they start going full throttle with SDV barring any possible issues with either getting SARA doing SDV or moving those boxes to Navigator.


Users of any cablecard devices but Tivo's will be left in the dust but that customer base is nearly non-existant anyhow (no offense to black88mx6, but I can probably count the NEO TWC customers who rely primarily on cablecard tv sets on one hand. Maybe two.) and as it is, compatibility with SDV is something that should be blamed on the tv manufacturers, not TWC. The original cablecard spec has been capable of and supported the facilities to work with SDV from the very beginning. Albeit optional, they have been there. Just TV manufacturers left it out for cost reasons like I stated earlier. Tivo is certainly capable even though using the original cablecard spec. So why can't cablecard tv sets do it? At the absolute least, they could have installed a usb port on the tv and offered firmware updates for it. Almost every single LCD and Plasma these days can update their firmware just like any modern piece of electronics.


Now tru2way sets are already around the corner and with OCAP boxes and software (as is seen with Navigator) already out in the real world, support from TWC for tru2way sets including SDV, PPV, VOD, and any other custom app support is just a short ways away. Keep in mind that the idea behind OCAP is to make the software universal rather than having to compile it for each different box model. So the same exact software image loaded on the HDC boxes can be sent to the up and coming tru2way sets and work right away if they wanted. OCAP is basically an embedded Java VM just like the Java VM on your computer. It's all cross platform stuff and doesn't care what hardware the code is running on as long as the VM is there.


As much as I hate to point out the blatant truth: black88mx6, you are in the miniscule minority here and TWC has bigger fish to fry especially when it comes to pleasing their customers. And even if there were more than a small handful of cablecard customers in the area, I doubt many of them would be too upset to be forced to use a TW provided box if it came to losing their favorite channels to SDV.


Another thing I have also stated time and time again is that Satellite and IPTV providers have never been shackled to requiring must-carry analog signals (even FiOS which is perfectly capable of analog cable channels and has done so in the very beginning and is even classified as a cable company but never got bothered when they went all digital.) but Cableco's must? Once again, people are asking for WAY too much and the FCC is putting the screws to them as well. I'd be happy if they just left channels 2-13 and got rid of every other analog channel. But then a large part of the customer base would probably get pissed because their 80s analog lineup disappeared.


Anyways, off my soap box now. Have a good lazy sunday afternoon.










*P.S. None of my numbers mentioned have been meant as hard numbers, but should be fairly close to actuality. But don't quote me on it being 100% perfect.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16047800
> 
> 
> If it's one thing I have said a thousand times and will continue to say a thousand times more till I have every last person in this thread chanting it like zombified cable brains: *You can't please everyone all of the time!*
> 
> 
> This particularly goes towards the arguments over the past few pages. TWC has limited bandwidth. This we all know. They have an upper limit of anywhere from 110-125 6MHZ channels that can either be used as analog NTSC, QAMs for any combination of SD or HD channels, QAMs for HSI download channels, and QAMs for Digital Phone channels. FYI: Upload channels for both HSI and Digital Phone as well as the digital cable return path are kept on the lowest frequencies well below analog channels 1 and 2 so don't count into the available 110-125 count.
> 
> 
> Out of those 110-125 we currently have probably an average of 80 analog channels as a wild guess. This leaves 30-45 6MHZ channels left to share between HSI, Digital Phone, or combinations of SD/HD digital channels.
> 
> 
> Now out of that 30-45 lets just say we have 1 spared for digital phone (per node, a single 38mbit feed for all customers in that area is probably WAY more than enough bandwidth without overloading the system) and then 4 for HSI download channel. Now we are down to 25-40 left just for digital tv services. And some of this, still, needs to be set aside strictly for VOD. Ok, take out another 5 for VOD.
> 
> 
> 20-35 left for tv channels. We know MAXIMUM we can fit 4 HD per QAM but realistically 3. And it's been a while but I seem to remember 10-12 SD per QAM. So figure out some combination thereof and do your own math.
> 
> 
> See the problem?
> 
> *Now what am I trying to get at here?* Simple: TWC, with having such a large customer base plus investors/stockholders, they have to try and please as many people as possible within their feasible limits. And so far we have these people to please:
> Those who want to keep around as much analog as possible.
> Those who want more HD
> Those who despise SDV and don't want it to take over
> Those who want faster HSI speeds
> 
> 
> I could go on. And for some, they even mix and match these priorities to the point of conflicting. You certainly can't keep tons of analog filled while adding more channels, more HD, and keep SDV out of it. Just not technically possible.
> 
> 
> As far as I am concerned, TWC is taking a logical and reasonable set of plans to advance things within what limits they have been handed by cable gods. SDV is being implemented in a tip toed fashion. Their provided set tops are capable of it already. Tivo users will be getting the free tuning adapters soon to sort out that chunk of customers.
> 
> 
> Users of any cablecard devices but Tivo's will be left in the dust but that customer base is nearly non-existant anyhow (no offense to black88mx6, but I can probably count the NEO TWC customers who rely primarily on cablecard tv sets on one hand. Maybe two.) and as it is, compatibility with SDV is something that should be blamed on the tv manufacturers, not TWC. The original cablecard spec has been capable of and supported the facilities to work with SDV from the very beginning. Albeit optional, they have been there. Just TV manufacturers left it out for cost reasons like I stated earlier.
> 
> 
> Now tru2way sets are already around the corner and with OCAP boxes and software (as is seen with Navigator) already out in the real world, support from TWC for tru2way sets including SDV, PPV, VOD, and any other custom app support is just a short ways away. Keep in mind that the idea behind OCAP is to make the software universal rather than having to compile it for each different box model. So the same exact software image loaded on the HDC boxes can be sent to the up and coming tru2way sets and work right away if they wanted. OCAP is basically an embedded Java VM just like the Java VM on your computer. It's all cross platform stuff and doesn't care what hardware the code is running on as long as the VM is there.
> 
> 
> As much as I hate to point out the blatant truth: black88mx6, you are in the miniscule minority here and TWC has bigger fish to fry especially when it comes to pleasing their customers. And even if there were more than a small handful of cablecard customers in the area, I doubt many of them would be too upset to be forced to use a TW provided box if it came to losing their favorite channels to SDV.
> 
> 
> Another thing I have also stated time and time again is that Satellite and IPTV providers have never been shackled to requiring must-carry analog signals (even FiOS which is perfectly capable of analog cable channels and has done so in the very beginning and is even classified as a cable company but never got bothered when they went all digital.) but Cableco's must? Once again, people are asking for WAY too much and the FCC is putting the screws to them as well. I'd be happy if they just left channels 2-13 and got rid of every other analog channel. But then a large part of the customer base would probably get pissed because their 80s analog lineup disappeared.
> 
> 
> Anyways, off my soap box now. Have a good lazy sunday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *P.S. None of my numbers mentioned have been meant as hard numbers, but should be fairly close to actuality. But don't quote me on it being 100% perfect.



I have to admit I was never a fan of SDV I constantly would worry that TW would not have the Tuner Adapters before converting. I am happy to see they arn't doing the same thing to us that they have done to other TiVo people by putting the carriage before the horse. They actually took steps to make sure we will be ready to adapt to SDV. Having said that, I welcome the change to SDV.


As far as people with cable cards in their sets, your absolutely right. You can't please everyone. Apparently there are more people in TW land using TiVos then just straight cable card in set users.


I have to also say that I really question the so called quality difference. I believe what black88mx6 says about the quality the question is does the average viewer see it? To that it's my opinion they do not. I think you have to be a real videophile to be able to see the difference.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16047513
> 
> 
> Per your request, nickdawg:
> 
> 
> (channel list)
> 
> 
> Sorry about the formatting, I had a bit of trouble with this. Also missing are 212, 221, 435 - STO HD Sports.



Thanks, Hookbill. They are doing different channels in the Adelphia areas. None of those channels like Disney XD, Nicktoons, Sleuth, BBC America are SDV here in existing TWC land. They were never supposed to be(here).


----------



## ed1202

Yeah, I got my SDV letter yesterday too, although my channel list is shorter that yours hookbill.


Existing channels that will be delivered using SDV beginning April 9th, 2009:


102 Disney XD

104 Nick Toons

105 The N

108 PBS Kids Sprout

109 Boomerang

110 Nick Too

111 Discovery Kids

157 DIY

158 Fine Living

210 Ovation

212 Lifetime Real Women

217 TV One

218 Village TV

221 Sleuth

225 BBC America

226 Current TV

227 LOGO

228 Fox Reality

375 CCTV-9

386 Word Network

387 INSP

388 I Life

389 Daystar

390 Family Land

391 TBN

433 Big Ten Network HD

435 HD Sports

444 A&E HD

445 HGTV HD

446 Food HD

447 History HD

485/710 HD PPV Events



I like the line where it says "Starting on April 9, 2009, Time Warner Cable will begin providing a number of our existing, *lesser-viewed channels* via SDV, listed on the reverse of this letter."


Some of those they consider "lesser viewed"?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16050048
> 
> 
> 
> Some of those they consider "lesser viewed"?



I'd say those are "lesser viewed". Most are "never viewed" by me!


----------



## nickdawg

Hookbill, I sent you a PM.


It was personal error. It should be sent now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16051137
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I sent you a PM.



I'm not ignoring you I didn't get it. My in box is empty. Try resending maybe something is wrong with site.


----------



## Vchat20

Kinda half surprised with that list of channels that's going SDV. I'm even more surprised though that the whole massive block of 24/7 infomercial and shopping channels aren't on there right off the bat.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16051221
> 
> 
> Kinda half surprised with that list of channels that's going SDV. I'm even more surprised though that the whole massive block of 24/7 infomercial and shopping channels aren't on there right off the bat.



I wish we had more channels on SDV here in original TWC land!!! But one piece of food news I read at twcneo.com is GSN will be moving to Digital Only next month. Looks like TWC is slowly freeing up analog bandwidth. Maybe they're afraid they won't be able to put all those new channels coming at the end of April on SDV?










But I'll be happy with ANY attempt to end analog channels. No matter how small!!


*Of course personally I'd like to blast away 20 or 30 analog channels at a time. Like the Terminator!!


----------



## Vchat20

For once I actually agree with you. And on a serious note, there are a handful of channels on analog that probably have a small enough viewership to deserve to be dropped and moved to the digital packages. Even if it was just like 5 or 6 channels dropped, that'd be a nice chunk of space to put towards digital and even SDV.


And yeah, I saw the note about GSN too. I know my mother who is an avid viewer is probably gonna be highly upset. Though she got over GAC moving to digital only so who knows.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16051330
> 
> 
> For once I actually agree with you. And on a serious note, there are a handful of channels on analog that probably have a small enough viewership to deserve to be dropped and moved to the digital packages. Even if it was just like 5 or 6 channels dropped, that'd be a nice chunk of space to put towards digital and even SDV.
> 
> 
> And yeah, I saw the note about GSN too. I know my mother who is an avid viewer is probably gonna be highly upset. Though she got over GAC moving to digital only so who knows.



"For once"? I always get that kind of reaction!!































I know a few channels that could be moved. How about VH1 Classic and MTV2? One of each channel is enough on analog. Lifetime Movies, Discovery Science, Hallmark, WE or Oxygen, HSN, Jewelry Television.


That's already eight channels. Could be 24 channels if they add three channels per analog. And I doubt most would be missed.


Introduce her to the wonders of Navigator!! "Imagine a world where you can see what is on TV with the press of a button!"


----------



## smoti17

So I got the e-mail saying that SDV Tuning Adapters will be available from 1st April. And a letter saying that SDV for channels I watch will be enabled from 9th April. Given past performance, I have *no* confidence that TWC will meet either date, and most likely will not come up with the box before they start killing channels.


It could of course be deliberate:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/...ched_Video.php 


I have written back to "Liz Watson Director of Marketing" at asking TWC to guarantee that they will deliver me a Tuning Adapter before they start doing SDV. If I don't get the answer I like, I'll be writing to Mr Fry again, reminding him that the FCC have fined other parts of TWC for this kind of failing. I'd suggest other Tivo owners here do the same.


It is completely ridiculous that I can't just buy a tuning adapter retail (AFAICT it has no crypto or subscriber management technology in it). With a bit of proper free market competition for these devices, I might be able to get something on reasonable timescales and that doesn't burn so much scarce space and power in my home as what TWC might get around to shipping...


Keith


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16055546
> 
> 
> So I got the e-mail saying that SDV Tuning Adapters will be available from 1st April. And a letter saying that SDV for channels I watch will be enabled from 9th April. Given past performance, I have *no* confidence that TWC will meet either date, and most likely will not come up with the box before they start killing channels.
> 
> 
> It could of course be deliberate:
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/...ched_Video.php
> 
> 
> I have written back to "Liz Watson Director of Marketing" at asking TWC to guarantee that they will deliver me a Tuning Adapter before they start doing SDV. If I don't get the answer I like, I'll be writing to Mr Fry again, reminding him that the FCC have fined other parts of TWC for this kind of failing. I'd suggest other Tivo owners here do the same.
> 
> 
> It is completely ridiculous that I can't just buy a tuning adapter retail (AFAICT it has no crypto or subscriber management technology in it). With a bit of proper free market competition for these devices, I might be able to get something on reasonable timescales and that doesn't burn so much scarce space and power in my home as what TWC might get around to shipping...
> 
> 
> Keith



Can I ask a question?


Dude, what is wrong with you?










I don't get your point at all. And let me tell you a few facts.


The only areas that I know of that successfully sued TW was Hawaii, and they didn't get that much out of the law suits. They had every right to sue because they had been deprived of their programming for some time.


We are not in the same situation as Hawaii, and if you read this thread all of the "information" you are giving us is old news.


I believe TW will deliver the tuner adapters in a timely manner as they assure us and further, why in the world would you even think about wanting to buy one when you are getting one for free?


I think you're pushing the panic button. I would say to you don't play your "Steve Fry" card until the time is right. I have TiVo and I'm not the least bit worried about SDV at this point.


So calm down, things will be OK.







The tuner adapters are in the warehouse and have been since before that letter went out, I know, I have a contact in headend who phoned me about it 2 weeks ago to let me know.


You watch, it will work out just fine.


----------



## nickdawg

(sigh) Another annoyance.
























First of all, why would you want to BUY a tuning adapter? TWC is giving the damn things away for free!!!! Second, why so heated over this issue? Even if SDV happened tomorrow and the adapters weren't here yet, what channels would be lost? Life time Real Women? Disney XD? Village TV? Daystar? Family Land? Whoopee!! I'm sure you'll survive without those crummy channels moving to SDV.


I suggest you take what Hookbill said as fact. He has a serious contact at TWC and they were right about when the tuning adapters came in and when they were going out.


Oh yeah, CALM DOWN!!!










In fact, TWC is almost doing TOO MUCH for Tivo viewers!! They even waited a week after tuning adapters are deployed to officially go live with SDV. Depending on how well they distribute the adapters most viewers should already have them before channels start migrating. Some people in the existing TWC land have been SOL since SDV started in February. But they would only be SOL if they subscribe to sports packages(which are all SDV).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16056183
> 
> 
> (sigh) Another annoyance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, why would you want to BUY a tuning adapter? TWC is giving the damn things away for free!!!! Second, why so heated over this issue? Even if SDV happened tomorrow and the adapters weren't here yet, what channels would be lost? Life time Real Women? Disney XD? Village TV? Daystar? Family Land? Whoopee!! I'm sure you'll survive without those crummy channels moving to SDV.
> 
> 
> I suggest you take what Hookbill said as fact. He has a serious contact at TWC and they were right about when the tuning adapters came in and when they were going out.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, CALM DOWN!!!



That's a fact about the channels going over to SDV. Right now they don't affect me in the least, the only one I care about is STO. I record one or two shows on A&E, I could live without either one of them.


So long as I have that adaptor by 4/9 I'm cool, and I have every reason to believe they will do what they say.


----------



## smoti17

I guess what's wrong with me is 1. past experience with TWC (i'm in ex-Adelphia land), and 2. I don't like service providers forcing their clunky hardware on me (one of my reasons for getting a Tivo HD in the first place was to reduce the box count). If Hookbill says they have the kit in the warehouse ready to roll, cool, I am duly calmed.


Channel I'm worried about is BBC America, need my Dr Who fix  I agree the rest are mostly disposable.


And I certainly won't hassle Steve Fry unless needed until the 9th.

Here's hoping they do better than the channel switchover....


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16042829
> 
> 
> What provider do you use? TWC, OTA, D*, E* or other? If you're not TWC that may be the problem. I remember reading here before that something was wrong with WEWS HD and it was only on TWC, since they get a fiber feed from the station.
> 
> 
> On my TV I have an option called "H/V Position Adjust". It can move from -15 to +15 horizontally and from +30 to -30 vertically. Normally this is always set to 0 for both(for a normal picture). Even setting the vertical position all the way to -30, there still is a slight line at the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> I too have a SDTV with a HD box connected. When I watch that TV, I notice that the bottom bar is bigger than the top bar.
> 
> 
> Edit, it is on that TV too. I put a piece of masking tape on the SDTV screen at the bottom of the picture inside the letterbox bars. Of all the channels I flipped through, only WEWS looked like that.



I'm E* & OTA. Having OTA to fall back on when technical issues arise is a very good thing (living in the antenna farm helps too







). Many times when technical issues arise, the OTA sometimes suffers from the same anomaly. Can't blame E* for that one, other times it's just the E* feed(s) (I get both the HD & SD feeds from E*).


WEWS does suffer from some issues with their digital signal, however it does not show up as a bar on the bottom on my TV (maybe it's because I'm already watching in letterbox so a slight shift upwards would not be noticeable).


Tell you what I can do, I can change the view on my receiver to give me a gray letterbox bar instead of a black bar, that way if there is a black bar on the bottom it would stand out. When do you see this bar, during the news, HD syndicated programming or SD programming?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16056719
> 
> 
> I'm E* & OTA. Having OTA to fall back on when technical issues arise is a very good thing (living in the antenna farm helps too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). Many times when technical issues arise, the OTA sometimes suffers from the same anomaly. Can't blame E* for that one, other times it's just the E* feed(s) (I get both the HD & SD feeds from E*).
> 
> 
> WEWS does suffer from some issues with their digital signal, however it does not show up as a bar on the bottom on my TV (maybe it's because I'm already watching in letterbox so a slight shift upwards would not be noticeable).
> 
> 
> Tell you what I can do, I can change the view on my receiver to give me a gray letterbox bar instead of a black bar, that way if there is a black bar on the bottom it would stand out. When do you see this bar, during the news, HD syndicated programming or SD programming?



I can change the letterbox bar color on the 4250HDC box(the one connected to the SDTV). I put on the World News Tonight with light gray bars. There is a noticeable amount of black space at the bottom of the screen. Underneath the bright colored ABC New background, there's a black line, then the letterbox bar.


So far I've seen it on SD upconvert from analog, network HD, syndicated HD and local HD. It's always on.


----------



## hookbill

What I saw on Saturday on WEWS with the SD broadcast on the HD channel on my set looked like some strange kind of letterbox. That's with the aspect set at 16x9. Almost like they did it on purpose.


But on the HD telecast at aspect of 16X9 it looks totally normal to me, no bars anywhere.


----------



## nickdawg

I put Wheel of Fortune on at 7. On the HD set, there's a small black line. On the SD set, there's a larger black line between the letterbox bar and the bottom of the picture.


Maybe if someone could take a direct capture from WEWS?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16056700
> 
> 
> I guess what's wrong with me is 1. past experience with TWC (i'm in ex-Adelphia land), and 2. I don't like service providers forcing their clunky hardware on me (one of my reasons for getting a Tivo HD in the first place was to reduce the box count). If Hookbill says they have the kit in the warehouse ready to roll, cool, I am duly calmed.



Smoti17, Hookbill is correct on this one. You'll see.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16058521
> 
> 
> Smoti17, Hookbill is correct on this one. You'll see.



I don't think he's ever confirmed it but I think Cathode Kid also has a contact at TW which is why he's confirming what I said.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I did the gray bar test on WEWS-DT and I do see the black bar at the bottom. The black bar is larger than the VBI I sometimes see on the top, much larger. The bar is almost 1/2" high on my 26" CRT. It's as if WEWS-HD is on it's own weird aspect ratio. So don't blame TWC, it's broadcast that way










I then when through all the other local stations. None of the other stations had this bar. Also I compared my E* HD local feed with the OTA feed and the bar was still there. The bar is there on both ABC network programs and the local news.


Here's another thing about WEWS-HD. I just got a DTV PAL Plus converter. The EPG gets no guide data for WEWS, while it does get all the other OTA station's guide data, including data that is not available on my E*622 (WDLI's guide data).


----------



## nickdawg

Over the past few days, I noticed that the VBI from the top of SD programming is gone. It looks like they "pushed" the picture too far up on the screen. If you look at the TV rating on ABC programming, the top of the rating bug is almost touching the top of the screen. The part that really annoys me is when the network ads and bugs are (a mile) away from the bottom of the screen. So much that I've actually watched the analog channel(which is flawless). I've totally given up on WEWHD. The damn black bar, and this afternoon during the news the picture was freezing up.


We're really going to be in serious trouble on June 12 when that analog verison of WEWS goes away. They're going to have to clean up their act in the HD broadcasting department, as then these issues will affect their ENTIRE viewing base, unlike now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16059004
> 
> 
> I did the gray bar test on WEWS-DT and I do see the black bar at the bottom. The black bar is larger than the VBI I sometimes see on the top, much larger. The bar is almost 1/2" high on my 26" CRT. It's as if WEWS-HD is on it's own weird aspect ratio. So don't blame TWC, it's broadcast that way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I then when through all the other local stations. None of the other stations had this bar. Also I compared my E* HD local feed with the OTA feed and the bar was still there. The bar is there on both ABC network programs and the local news.
> 
> 
> Here's another thing about WEWS-HD. I just got a DTV PAL Plus converter. The EPG gets no guide data for WEWS, while it does get all the other OTA station's guide data, including data that is not available on my E*622 (WDLI's guide data).



I wonder if I'm not seeing it because of the design of my television? If it's small enough it may appear to me to be part of the gloss black finish that curves towards the bottom of my 30LG37. I'll look closer.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16059004
> 
> 
> ............
> 
> Here's another thing about WEWS-HD. I just got a DTV PAL Plus converter. The EPG gets no guide data for WEWS, while it does get all the other OTA station's guide data, including data that is not available on my E*622 (WDLI's guide data).



Same here using both a Panasonic TV built in tuner and a STB Digital Tuner, no EPG data for WEWS via OTA. Although I rarely view such data for OTA, I am certain it was working for WEWS a few months ago because only WBNX 55 was not sending EPG data at that time.


----------



## hookbill

I got a hard copy letter of the email I received a while back concerning the Tuner Adapters. Exactly the same as the email with the exception of 1 itsy bitsy tiny footnote after saying they will be free. It now says "subject to change" which you can read into it what you will, however with my built in distrust of cable companies I'm certain this was put in there as a possible way to charge us in the future.


TW is smart, they leave a loop hole everywhere. The date of availability and time of SDV was not changed. Contact is promised via email or phone call for FEDex delivery of tuner adapter.


----------



## Vchat20

I'd almost wager a guess, thinking from the business side of things, that the tuning adapters will initially be free for existing customers just so they can retain the programming with no extra charges. Then sometime in the future after this whole mess is settled, they'll tack a charge/fee on them for new customers or existing customers newly using cablecards.


Again, just my guess. Take it as what you will. May also very well just be legal wording to cover their butts in the absolute worst case. Almost every business takes this action in one way or another.


----------



## ed1202

Finally after two weeks and numerous house calls (a tech was at the house literally almost every day) everything is working as it should.










It was a combination of 1.) bad lines to house 2.) amplification needed on line 3.) new cablecard 4.) correct permissioning of said cablecard. Whew!


Hook, that letter is probably in my mailbox today too. Typical TW. Why leave a firm statement alone when you can leave a big open gaping hole instead.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16062016
> 
> 
> I got a hard copy letter of the email I received a while back concerning the Tuner Adapters. Exactly the same as the email with the exception of 1 itsy bitsy tiny footnote after saying they will be free. It now says "subject to change" which you can read into it what you will, however with my built in distrust of cable companies I'm certain this was put in there as a possible way to charge us in the future.
> 
> 
> TW is smart, they leave a loop hole everywhere. The date of availability and time of SDV was not changed. Contact is promised via email or phone call for FEDex delivery of tuner adapter.



I can't say I'm too upset over that!!







I wasn't too happy that I was being forced to fund a TARP fund for tuning adapters!!
























I have my own name for TWC customers subsidizing tuning adapters:

*C*able
*R*elief
*A*ction
*P*lan


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16063416
> 
> 
> I can't say I'm too upset over that!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't too happy that I was being forced to fund a TARP fund for tuning adapters!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my own name for TWC customers subsidizing tuning adapters:
> 
> *C*able
> *R*elief
> *A*ction
> *P*lan



What exactly do these "tuning adapters" do? Allow Tivo's to utilize SDV, PPV, VOD? Would such adapters ever be available for Cablecards allowing for PPV, SDV and VOD as well? *IF* I understand the Cablecard/Tru2Way current mess they will not allow for PPV, SDV, VOD....correct?


----------



## Vchat20

Basically the tuning adapters are usb based devices and will only initially be compatible with Tivo's and just add the return path communication back to the cableco that is vital for SDV to work. PPV and VOD and other services still will not be available because that sort of thing is cable plant specific and, in a way, proprietary. More specifically, SDV is more a 'standard' that is the same all across the board for every cableco and every region. PPV and VOD just for starters though has no specific standard and can vary from region to region. Tivo and all related parties involved can adapt to SDV, PPV and VOD they cannot.


For any other cablecard devices to be compatible with the tuning adapters they have to, at the very least, have a usb host port available and then they have to update their firmware/software to work with it. Without both of those, you are dead in the water. And at this point, outside of Tivo's and digital cable enabled media center boxes (I don't think any support is there yet, but at the feasibility level it'd be dead simple.), all other cablecard devices are left in the dark.


Tru2way on the other hand is a totally different beast. With real close ties to OCAP, not only does it mandate 2-way support for tru2way certified devices at the core of the specification (hence tru*2way*); But all devices will have OCAP hardware to where when you pair a cablecard to any tru2way device and boot it up, the theory being these devices will pull down the same OCAP based software that the cableco boxes use (Navigator in this case). And as a result, all special, proprietary functions and applications like VOD, PPV, Caller ID on tv, bill pay in addition to the SDV standard...All of those should be available on open consumer tru2way devices. IN THEORY anyway. We wait and see though since tru2way hardware is still scarce and OCAP support is in it's infancy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16063416
> 
> 
> I can't say I'm too upset over that!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't too happy that I was being forced to fund a TARP fund for tuning adapters!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my own name for TWC customers subsidizing tuning adapters:
> 
> *C*able
> *R*elief
> *A*ction
> *P*lan



Dude, do you really think the tuning adapter has anything to do with your cable bill? Don't you realize that they will continue to raise your rates regardless of the tuning adapters?


Give me a break. All cable companies are evil when it comes to billing. Look how they screw you by making you pay for UHD but I don't. And don't forget all the money they are putting into SDV, that's the excuse for rising cost not a few lousy damn tuning adapters.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16064799
> 
> 
> Dude, do you really think the tuning adapter has anything to do with your cable bill? Don't you realize that they will continue to raise your rates regardless of the tuning adapters?
> 
> 
> Give me a break. All cable companies are evil when it comes to billing. Look how they screw you by making you pay for UHD but I don't. And don't forget all the money they are putting into SDV, that's the excuse for rising cost not a few lousy damn tuning adapters.



You just hit the exact reason why I'm so angry lately. I already have SDV. I've been paying for SDV(active since February). I've been paying for TWC to DO SDV for years. Many older people in the existing TWC area have been paying TWC since the 1980s. Yet we get pissed on in an attempt to appease those who have been paying Fry and Jascoe's salary for only TWO YEARS now.


Hook, think of it this way. Imagine if your area activates SDV on April 9. And you have to wait until June or July to see new SDV HD channels. You have SDV and your tuning adapter, but they're not using it. And you paid for it!! And you keep paying for a cable service that isn't utilizing everything they have to better serve the customer.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg wait until they start raising our bill because of "additional channels" like the one's they are offering at the end of April. Do you really want to pay for those? I don't but we're going to.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm kinda glad to read that it's not TWC's problem. Just more incompetence out of the Cleveland ABC station. And while the picture was freezing yesterday and that black line was at the bottom of the screen, do you know what channel 5 did? They added a little, transparent letter "5" that is on screen during syndicated programming, on the ANALOG FEED ONLY. I remember channle 5 used to have a little gray 5 with WEWS under it a few years back. But lately I noticed their local branding vanished, just assumed it was because their analog channel is being abandoned on February 17. Now that the date was pushed back, they made another bug!! WHY! There's only about 2 months left on the analog channel. Wouldn't it make more sense to FIX YOUR DIGITAL FEED?? FIX the black line. FIX the freezing picture. Put the damn letter 5 bug on the digital channel instead!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16064862
> 
> 
> nickdawg wait until they start raising our bill because of "additional channels" like the one's they are offering at the end of April. Do you really want to pay for those? I don't but we're going to.



They're already raising the bill. I talked to my mother today. Her usually under $100 bill is now $103, with no late fees, for one month. And she only has two converter boxes for her two TVs, one is a DVR, one HD. On top of that, Digital Tier, HBO, Showtime. That's it. No internets, no phone. Not even the HDTV Tier.


The INSULTING thing is we're gonna have to pay more for the ***joy and pleasure*** of having colon polyps like BRAVO, CNBC, ABC FAMILY, ANIZAL PLANET, THE (not)LEARNING CHANNEL and ESPN NEWS.


The only channel I'm excited about at the end of April is MLB. At least there is something there. Something more than at BRAVO or CNBC. Hell, I'd even rather have SPEED HD than any of those channels in the April 29 batch.


----------



## Vchat20

nickdawg nickdawg nickdawg....Just because there are channels you don't like doesn't mean other people don't like them as well and TWC should kill them off. There's also the fact that the parent companies for a number of these channels only offer them as a bundle package (like Disney with ESPN as a well known example).


You should also realize by now especially with the Viacom fiasco that the rate hikes are not always directly a moneygrab by TWC but also influenced by the content providers wanting massive subscriber fees just to have the 'luxury' of carrying their ad-laden channels. And it's not like they can say 'Ok people. We're cutting your salaries in half so we don't have to hike subscription rates.' to their employees that they of course have to pay just like any other company. Called 'business expenses'.



On another note: I dunno if WNEO has made some changes recently to their transmitter orientation, but I did a rescan on my set today and noticed I am now picking up 45 a little better rather than 'sometimes yes, sometimes no'. Granted, I'm only getting 11% signal (still using the old hack job of a short RG6 line with 2-3 inches stripped off the core at the end) so not even a momentary picture lock. But it's steady whereas it used to be either I'd get nothing or get a few percentage points on the strength meter.


One of these days I'm REALLY gonna have to climb the antenna mast on the side of this house and rewire it. We moved in here in 2000 and never even touched it beyond snipping off the dangling leads (bad idea) so I'm not even certain what type it is or if it still works. Just your average 80s multi-element VHF/UHF antenna.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16064892
> 
> 
> They're already raising the bill. I talked to my mother today. Her usually under $100 bill is now $103, with no late fees, for one month. And she only has two converter boxes for her two TVs, one is a DVR, one HD. On top of that, Digital Tier, HBO, Showtime. That's it. No internets, no phone. Not even the HDTV Tier.
> 
> 
> The INSULTING thing is we're gonna have to pay more for the ***joy and pleasure*** of having colon polyps like BRAVO, CNBC, ABC FAMILY, ANIZAL PLANET, THE (not)LEARNING CHANNEL and ESPN NEWS.
> 
> 
> The only channel I'm excited about at the end of April is MLB. At least there is something there. Something more than at BRAVO or CNBC. Hell, I'd even rather have SPEED HD than any of those channels in the April 29 batch.



Dump TWC, put up an antenna, and stop whining. None of the providers do business the way you think they should. Not DBS, not cable, not fiber, not IPTV. None of them.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16064892
> 
> 
> .......... At least there is something there. Something more than at BRAVO or CNBC. Hell, I'd even rather have SPEED HD than any of those channels in the April 29 batch.



CNBC would be a total waste in HD. Bravo, otoh, has some good stuff.


BTW, have I mentioned *I WANT SPEED HD*.


----------



## WilliamR

Anyone know when the Cleveland market will get sci-fi HD? Someone mentioned in another thread it was coming to northeast ohio on march 15. Still don't have it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16068035
> 
> 
> Anyone know when the Cleveland market will get sci-fi HD? Someone mentioned in another thread it was coming to northeast ohio on march 15. Still don't have it.



Well, I don't know what part of NEO you live in but we know for a fact that no new HD channels are arriving until 3/31, and it's already past March 15 anyway.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/16067840
> 
> 
> Dump TWC, put up an antenna, and *stop whining*. None of the providers do business the way you think they should. Not DBS, not cable, not fiber, not IPTV. None of them.



Yeah, stop whining. And cut back on the ranting while you're at it too.

















Me thinks this thread is getting a reputation. I've never seen so many mods in the 6 years I've been hanging around posting on this thread.


----------



## AdamPS

So lemme get this straight....different people watch different channels? And TW is providing a variety of these channels so that there is something for everyone? What jerks!!


----------



## InMedina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/8649024
> 
> 
> I like torturing myself, so I tossed in a search on WVIZ HD's actual broadcast transmission plans. They updated their website on 9/28/06 .
> 
> 
> Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.





I can get 25 strong, clear with no problems...analog in Medina (1/2mile east of square)

Cant even find it on the digital converter box.

Their website says this:


> Quote:
> Please note: Some viewers may still have trouble receiving WVIZ/PBS over the air during this transition leading up to June 12, 2009 – even with a strong dual antenna and a converter box. If you can not receive WVIZ/PBS, you can continue to watch the non-digital WVIZ on an analog television set or use a converter box with an analog pass-through feature until June 12, by which time WVIZ will switchover completely to our high-power DTV transmitter that will reach almost everyone in the viewing area.



So maybe, later this summer I can get it?

Otherwise, any tweaks in the mean time?

I get (digital) 3's,5,8,17's,19's,43,49's,55, and of course...el 61.

Any hope for the 23's, 25's?

thanks and whats this??? a sci-fi OTA channel??? boo-rah! and its past march 15th, lol


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16064862
> 
> 
> nickdawg wait until they start raising our bill because of "additional channels" like the one's they are offering at the end of April. Do you really want to pay for those? I don't but we're going to.



I thought Time Warner was "The Home of Free HD"...











> Quote:
> Look how they screw you by making you pay for UHD but I don't.



Um, I get that channel now too, Hook. Are we supposed to be getting that?


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16068035
> 
> 
> Anyone know when the Cleveland market will get sci-fi HD? Someone mentioned in another thread it was coming to northeast ohio on march 15. Still don't have it.



BTW Sci-Fi Channel will now be re-named SyFy. Huh?










www.tvweek.com/news/2009/03/sci_fi_channel_aims_to_shed_ge.php


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16069505
> 
> 
> BTW Sci-Fi Channel will now be re-named SyFy. Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tvweek.com/news/2009/03/sci_fi_channel_aims_to_shed_ge.php



I think they should just skip the games and call it "VDTV."


(Let's see who gets it.







)


- Trip


----------



## Vchat20

So this is quite a ponderance going on here. Just on a whim I decided to try the firewire port on my 8300HDC again. But this time around my only machine with a firewire card is this laptop which I took from XP to Windows 7 (7057, latest leaked build) and is using a VIA PCMCIA firewire card.


Plugged it in without downloading the 'correct' drivers and I am now getting the prerequisite AV/C Panel and AV/C Tuner devices whereas before I was only getting 2 unknown devices.
 


Now I just need to figure out what channels TWC has conveniently plopped the 5C flag on and figure out what programs will actually record anything. Tried CapDVHS on WKYCHD, WFMJHD, WFMJ(SD), and WKYC(SD). (Mind you, The latter two are digital in legacy territory here.)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16068035
> 
> 
> Anyone know when the Cleveland market will get sci-fi HD? Someone mentioned in another thread it was coming to northeast ohio on march 15. Still don't have it.



***On, or after, March 31, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: *Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD*, and *Disney HD.*


***On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: *Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family*,


***On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: *ESPN News* and *MLB*


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/16068984
> 
> 
> So lemme get this straight....different people watch different channels? And TW is providing a variety of these channels so that there is something for everyone? What jerks!!



That's not the problem. The problem is we have limited space, and they're wasting it with garbage. In that interview with OMW, Mr. Jascoe said "he cares about real HD content". If Mr. Jascoe had bothered to read the main HDTV page at AVS, he'd find a thread called "ABC Family HD, what a joke, very little HD " . Yippee, another channel like the ones we currently have(TBS, HGTV). And Bravo, what do they have in HD other than reruns of Law & Order: CI and The West Wing? Top Chef, Top Model, yippee!!


ESPN News is the most pathetic addition of all. They pass over ESPN*U* HD in favor of ESPN News? ESPN News and CNBC are cop out channels because they are HD only because of their graphics.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16069431
> 
> 
> I thought Time Warner was "The Home of Free HD"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, I get that channel now too, Hook. Are we supposed to be getting that?



Not according to the charts. It's suppose to be free in a couple of weeks. But I've always got it free.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16070159
> 
> 
> And Bravo, what do they have in HD other than reruns of Law & Order: CI and The West Wing? Top Chef, Top Model, yippee!!
> 
> 
> ESPN News is the most pathetic addition of all. They pass over ESPN*U* HD in favor of ESPN News? ESPN News and CNBC are cop out channels because they are HD only because of their graphics.



Bravo offers original programming, probably some people do watch I don't. Just like TNT I like in HD for their original programming in HD.


As far as ESPN News, you gotta kind of expect that I mean some people watch nothing but sports.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16070106
> 
> 
> ***On, or after, March 31, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: *Palladia HD, Discovery HD, USA HD, Sci-Fi HD*, and *Disney HD.*
> 
> 
> ***On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: *Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family*,
> 
> 
> ***On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: *ESPN News* and *MLB*



Anxiously awaiting Sci-fi and USA HD. Those are the two big ones for me. I also will like to see animal planet in HD, we have watched some stuff on there before. Cool deal, thanks.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *InMedina* /forum/post/16069423
> 
> 
> I can get 25 strong, clear with no problems...analog in Medina (1/2mile east of square)
> 
> Cant even find it on the digital converter box.
> 
> Their website says this:
> 
> So maybe, later this summer I can get it?
> 
> Otherwise, any tweaks in the mean time?
> 
> I get (digital) 3's,5,8,17's,19's,43,49's,55, and of course...el 61.
> 
> Any hope for the 23's, 25's?
> 
> thanks and whats this??? a sci-fi OTA channel??? boo-rah! and its past march 15th, lol



Welcome to the forum InMedina!

To get you up to speed about WVIZ-DT you need to know the following:

1. WVIZ-TV's analog transmitter site is no longer being considered for their digital transmitter. the owner of the tower, CBS, Inc. (owners of WNCX-FM the primary service on that tower) was in a dispute with Ideastream (the parent company of WVIZ) over the placement of the antenna for the digital signal. Bottom line, that analog signal is coming from a different location that where the digital signal comes from, therefore it's not a good indicator of the digital signal. In fact you might have to re aim your antenna.


2. For years WVIZ-DT was transmitted on a short tower at their old studio building on Brookpark Rd. This low power/short tower (99' / 1 kw) signal barely made it half-way through Parma. They have since moved and when the building sold they had to take down that short tower.


3. WKYC to the rescue! Ch 3 let WVIZ put their digital antenna on their backup tower (erroneously called the "radar tower" in FCC documentation). This is still just a temporary fix, although it did give the WVIZ-DT signal a somewhat higher antenna and an increase in power.


4. We're still waiting for the new WKYC tower to be erected. Once that is done both WKYC and WVIZ will share space on the new tower and finally provide a (hopefully) decent signal to the entire Cleveland market area.


----------



## Vchat20

So haha. I guess this 8300HDC isn't so bad. I got the firewire connection working finally! Praise also goes out to Windows 7. The inbox drivers for my firewire card seem to play better with the 8300HDC compared to the stock drivers in XP. If I rolled the drivers in Win7 back to the 'legacy' 1394 OHCI drivers, I got the same symptoms as I did in XP which was I only got two unknown unusable devices when hooking up the DVR. With the new drivers in Win7, I get the expected tuner and panel devices required to capture anything.


Furthermore: Contrary to the known knowledge of this hack, seems in my case that I can only record dvr'd shows during playback and live programming just refuses to record. I just now grabbed a small 15 minute clip of last night's L&O:SVU off WKYC-HD in full frame 1920x1080i.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16072357
> 
> 
> So haha. I guess this 8300HDC isn't so bad. I got the firewire connection working finally! Praise also goes out to Windows 7. The inbox drivers for my firewire card seem to play better with the 8300HDC compared to the stock drivers in XP. If I rolled the drivers in Win7 back to the 'legacy' 1394 OHCI drivers, I got the same symptoms as I did in XP which was I only got two unknown unusable devices when hooking up the DVR. With the new drivers in Win7, I get the expected tuner and panel devices required to capture anything.
> 
> 
> Furthermore: Contrary to the known knowledge of this hack, seems in my case that I can only record dvr'd shows during playback and live programming just refuses to record. I just now grabbed a small 15 minute clip of last night's L&O:SVU off WKYC-HD in full frame 1920x1080i.
> 
> 
> As stated in the related thread, I'm gonna play with this a little bit more and see what I get out of it. I'm just absolutely psyched that this actually works now and without having to fight with the mess at TWC to get an older box. >


----------



## Vchat20

Unfortunately so far I can only get DVR'd shows from the locals going. Got L&O:SVU off WKYC-HD and Life from WFMJ-HD. Tried short bits from STO-HD and TNT-HD. Neither took. But then again, since Navigator it's a major PITA to tell what has the 5C flag or not.


Tried a music choice channel. Got data, but not viewable. TSreader gets extremely confused on it (a metric ton of random PIDs read off). IPPV previews channel semi-works. Corruption all over. Videoredo opens it with no audio channel and lots of green macro-blocking. Tried cartoon network and of course nothing.


Right now letting the laptop battery recoup and I'll probably investigate more thoroughly tomorrow.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16070257
> 
> 
> Bravo offers original programming, probably some people do watch I don't. Just like TNT I like in HD for their original programming in HD.
> 
> 
> As far as ESPN News, you gotta kind of expect that I mean some people watch nothing but sports.



But why does it have to be ESPN News? Why can't it be a channel that _shows_ sports? Like ESPN U? Who wants glorified barker channels in HD(CNBC and ESPN News)?


And Bravo, they don't have more original programming than F/X. F/X has the best original programming on cable, along with USA. Plus F/X shows movies that are HD too. Still more than Bravo.


I'll bet TWC was FORCED into carrying these channels as a package. USA, CNBC, Bravo, SCIFI are all part of NBC Universal, who TWC recently started carrying. And Discovery, Anizal Planet and TLC are the same as well. Disney, ABC Family and ESPN are all Disney.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16058619
> 
> 
> I don't think he's ever confirmed it but I think Cathode Kid also has a contact at TW which is why he's confirming what I said.



My lips are sealed.


----------



## mnowlin

Well, I'm on the list to beta-test the TiVo tuning adapter - should arrive early next week. Think I'll have my wife do the installation to truly test their instructions... I'll sit at the other side of the room while she figures out the mess of cables and shoots me really ugly looks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16074758
> 
> 
> Well, I'm on the list to beta-test the TiVo tuning adapter - should arrive early next week. Think I'll have my wife do the installation to truly test their instructions... I'll sit at the other side of the room while she figures out the mess of cables and shoots me really ugly looks.



I don't really consider this as a "beta" test as the tuner adapters have already been "beta" tested, I think this is just a way TW is making sure they work properly before they are sent out.


But on the other hand I have a little difficulty trying to understand the point of "testing." Since in our area (mnowlin and I don't live far away from each other) we do not have SDV how can we possibly "test" these adapters? You would think they would be doing this in Legacy Land where SDV is already in use.


Also I have to wonder if there is any "failure" in these test if it will further delay the deployment of SDV in ex Adelphia Land?


It is a very exciting time right now. And the days seem to be going by slowly as we approach April. I'll have to take a my weekly look at my 4250 to see if there are any changes in diagnostics.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently Time Warner has some plans to help people with cable cards in set from what I read here:


Time Warner Northeast Ohio HDTV Plans

It's consistently one of our "most asked" questions here at the Mighty Blog of Fun(tm): When will Time Warner Cable upgrade its HDTV lineup in Northeast Ohio?


The answer appears to be "starting soon, over the next few months".


Local TWC executive Bill Jasso has been kind enough to put a lot of the information that's already out there together, along with some new information, about channels coming to the TWC Northeast Ohio lineup.


Without further ado, here's the list we have from Mr. Jasso, quoting him directly...with specifics about channels already slotted to be added to the TWC NEO lineup between now and the end of April:


On March 31 we will be adding the following new HD channels to our entire footprint:

Palladia (MTV's music channel) Channel 470

Discovery Channel 449

USA Channel 443

Sci Fi Channel 476

Disney Channel 456


On April 29, we will add the following new HD channels:

Bravo Channel 466

CNBC Channel 486

TLC Channel 450

Animal Planet Channel 452

ABC Family Channel 460

ESPN News (customer must have Digital Basic Tier) Channel 432

MLB (customer must have Digital Basic Tier) Channel 438


We then plan to add at least five additional HD channels each month in 2009. We should end the year with about 100 HD channels.


Two notes: Some of these channels are already listed in TWC NEO's legal programming notices. And as per usual, they are listed to start "on or after" the dates in question...though it sounds like the local arm of the cable giant is planning for those dates, judging from the list above.


One reason that these additions will be possible is "Switched Digital Video" (SDV). Jasso confirms to OMW that the technology - which allows the company to shuffle channels off the main bandwidth unless requested by the user - is already in place:

*Right now we have over 60 channels in the platform and it is totally un-noticeable to the customer, unless you are one of the 50-60 customers in Northeast Ohio with a Cablecard TV. We're working on a solution for those folks, and will announce it soon.
*

Oh, and yes, the HD TiVo boxes (HD/Series 3) also use cable cards, but TiVo customers tell us that the company is ready to send out those tuning adapters which allow the HD TiVos to use cable SDV. TiVo uses cable cards internally for its HD units.


We hear from customers who have cable cards in one form or another that they are getting letters explaining the channels affected, and TWC is communicating with TiVo HD/S3 users about the tuning adapters.


But hold on, says TWC's Bill Jasso...it appears there's some customer confusion on the TiVo/tuning adapter front:


We have over 100 people on the waiting list. But as we start calling these folks, we find that don't have the specific TiVo device that requires the adapter. Oh well, they call us anyway.


We're assuming that those mistaken calls are coming from folks with non-HD TiVos, such as the Series 2 sitting a few feet away from us right here in the OMW World Headquarters.


The tuning adapters aren't needed for the older TiVos, which don't record in HD. Those (Series 1, Series 2, DVD recorders) do not use cable cards, and the SDV tuning will be handled directly by the digital cable box that feeds the TiVo. (If we've saved your CSRs some calls, Bill...you're welcome. Heh.)


In an unrelated note, Jasso also tells us about changes for the "On Demand" service in the territories formerly owned by Adelphia:


We will be moving all of our VOD content channels in the Greater Cleveland (read: former Adelphia) area (systems) from the current Channel 1 portal, to their own separate channels. This is planned for the first week of May. This should make all VOD easier to navigate and reach.


Again, much of this information is "already out there", from the letters being sent to customers, to the legal "Programming Notices" page on Time Warner Northeast Ohio's website. We hope we were able to tie it all together for you, with official confirmation.


The aforementioned legal notices page also notes some other changes, like the exit of West Virginia Media CBS affiliate WTRF/7 Wheeling from the TWC systems in the Dover/New Philadelphia/Newcomerstown region on April 1...as TWC continues to pare duplicate network affiliates from their local lineups...


Please notice people with non HD TiVo units YOU DO NOT NEED A TUNER ADAPTER so quit bugging them.


----------



## Rbuchina

I'm in old Comcast land (Mentor) and I was just wondering if all this SDV BS and new channels are going to work with my old Motorola HDTV DVR. I believe its a DCT 6400 type box. I feel like a minority here since all I read about is TWC legacy and ex-Adelphia area and nothing about ex-Comcast.


While off from work last Friday I took my bedroom Mot. digital box back to my Mentor office and swapped it with a new SA-4250 HDC so I could view the HD chhannels on my old bedroom TV. It works fine but I am beginning to wonder if any of this SDV stuff will work on Motorola box technology. The CSR at the counter claimed that all this new HD programmang was coming down shortly and did not mention anything about my main Motorola box in my family room so I susspect this should work. If not, I have the new SA 4250 I can bring down and use in the family room until I can swap out the Motorola DCT 6400.


I quess I just wait and see,


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16076287
> 
> 
> I'm in old Comcast land (Mentor) and I was just wondering if all this SDV BS and new channels are going to work with my old Motorola HDTV DVR. I believe its a DCT 6400 type box. I feel like a minority here since all I read about is TWC legacy and ex-Adelphia area and nothing about ex-Comcast.
> 
> 
> While off from work last Friday I took my bedroom Mot. digital box back to my Mentor office and swapped it with a new SA-4250 HDC so I could view the HD chhannels on my old bedroom TV. It works fine but I am beginning to wonder if any of this SDV stuff will work on Motorola box technology. The CSR at the counter claimed that all this new HD programmang was coming down shortly and did not mention anything about my main Motorola box in my family room so I susspect this should work. If not, I have the new SA 4250 I can bring down and use in the family room until I can swap out the Motorola DCT 6400.
> 
> 
> I quess I just wait and see,
> 
> 
> Ray



Very good question. If I were you I'd be proactive and exchange that moto box.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16076320
> 
> 
> Very good question. If I were you I'd be proactive and exchange that moto box.



I probably will need to replace it but I have several concert videos that I like to view from the DVR and they will be lost. Oh well, we shall see.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16076548
> 
> 
> I probably will need to replace it but I have several concert videos that I like to view from the DVR and they will be lost. Oh well, we shall see.
> 
> 
> Ray



Well, I can't pretend to know if it will or will not work with the motobox so waiting is probably your best avenue. This is one of the reasons why I never record anything permanently. I don't know anything about moto's so I can't say as to the quality of the hard drive but if that ever goes you would lose it anyway.


If only WVIZ would use Dolby 5.1 I would also record concerts off of there and store them on my computer but that's not happening. Solution: Purchase the DVD.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16074758
> 
> 
> Well, I'm on the list to beta-test the TiVo tuning adapter - should arrive early next week. Think I'll have my wife do the installation to truly test their instructions... I'll sit at the other side of the room while she figures out the mess of cables and shoots me really ugly looks.



Sounds like my house, too. Hadn't thought of trying that approach. You're pretty brave!







We'd probably have to excuse the kids from the room...


----------



## AdamPS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16070159
> 
> 
> That's not the problem. The problem is we have limited space, and they're wasting it with garbage. In that interview with OMW, Mr. Jascoe said "he cares about real HD content". If Mr. Jascoe had bothered to read the main HDTV page at AVS, he'd find a thread called "ABC Family HD, what a joke, very little HD " . Yippee, another channel like the ones we currently have(TBS, HGTV). And Bravo, what do they have in HD other than reruns of Law & Order: CI and The West Wing? Top Chef, Top Model, yippee!!
> 
> 
> ESPN News is the most pathetic addition of all. They pass over ESPN*U* HD in favor of ESPN News? ESPN News and CNBC are cop out channels because they are HD only because of their graphics.



ESPN NEWS-HD is actually a HUGE improvement over the SD version. The entire layout is different and there are scores/stats running around the left and bottom that do not come through on the regular version. I find these things annoying on most channels but it is perfect on something like ESPN NEWS.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16075695
> 
> 
> I don't really consider this as a "beta" test as the tuner adapters have already been "beta" tested, I think this is just a way TW is making sure they work properly before they are sent out.
> 
> 
> But on the other hand I have a little difficulty trying to understand the point of "testing." Since in our area (mnowlin and I don't live far away from each other) we do not have SDV how can we possibly "test" these adapters? You would think they would be doing this in Legacy Land where SDV is already in use.



I agree with you. I'm sure the equipment has been field "tested" internally (by staffers). The gist I got when talking to my contact at TW was that they just wanted to know about the peticulars of the average customer being able (from the supplied written instructions) to correctly hook up the device. I was told to be expecting calls from CSR's shortly thereafter to pick my brain as to the correctness of said instructions to see if anything needed to be re-worded or changed.


----------



## hookbill

i've tried to "volunteer" for the beta testing. Got a form email back but the guy took the time on the top to say, "I got it, you want to volunteer to test."


Apparently regular TiVo owners are getting confused as to whether or not they need an adapter. It list the 3 models to qualify for the adapter.


----------



## smoti17

Wow ! I've now had *3* letters in the post and one e-mail saying my tuning adapter will be available after 1st April....


And Yay if all this means we can get SciFi and Discovery in HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16078552
> 
> 
> Wow ! I've now had *3* letters in the post and one e-mail saying my tuning adapter will be available after 1st April....
> 
> 
> And Yay if all this means we can get SciFi and Discovery in HD



Yeah, I got another letter exactly like the one I got a couple of days ago. Strange.


----------



## Vchat20

Well hookbill: I did more testing with the firewire setup and my expected suspicions were confirmed. Pretty much anything other than the locals are impossible to record. Albeit a bit glitchy, at least the locals I can record sustained amounts of programming that's viewable.


Tried TBS, TBS HD, Disney channel, Cartoon network, Discovery, a VOD title, a music choice channel. That's about it for non-locals. I get data for everything. CapDVHS often goes without crashing and I have a number of TS files anywhere from a few MB up to as much as assumed for the particular channels (HD of course produces larger files per second/minute than SD channels. This is seen even on channels that are locked). Discovery reads back in TSreader though whereas other channels state it's not a recognizable mpeg2 file. (2 PIDs shown. Assume one video and one audio. Former is 2mbit, latter is around 85kbps. Past that, no other info given or discernable).


But locals work. Even tried WYTV-HD on an existing DVR'd copy of Scrubs and House on WJW-HD. These record flawlessly (though sometimes CapDVHS crashes mid-stream. Nature of the beast unfortunately on Windows being a hack and all. Mac's have it good though with native firewire support and AV/C support).


Curious though. Does the Tivo in any way give you the ability to check the 5C status of various channels? If I could figure out what channels have what 5C flag, could probably narrow this down a bit better. Anyone in the legacy areas still hanging onto Passport maybe?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16079160
> 
> 
> Well hookbill: I did more testing with the firewire setup and my expected suspicions were confirmed. Pretty much anything other than the locals are impossible to record. Albeit a bit glitchy, at least the locals I can record sustained amounts of programming that's viewable.
> 
> 
> Tried TBS, TBS HD, Disney channel, Cartoon network, Discovery, a VOD title, a music choice channel. That's about it for non-locals. I get data for everything. CapDVHS often goes without crashing and I have a number of TS files anywhere from a few MB up to as much as assumed for the particular channels (HD of course produces larger files per second/minute than SD channels. This is seen even on channels that are locked). Discovery reads back in TSreader though whereas other channels state it's not a recognizable mpeg2 file. (2 PIDs shown. Assume one video and one audio. Former is 2mbit, latter is around 85kbps. Past that, no other info given or discernable).
> 
> 
> But locals work. Even tried WYTV-HD on an existing DVR'd copy of Scrubs and House on WJW-HD. These record flawlessly (though sometimes CapDVHS crashes mid-stream. Nature of the beast unfortunately on Windows being a hack and all. Mac's have it good though with native firewire support and AV/C support).
> 
> 
> Curious though. Does the Tivo in any way give you the ability to check the 5C status of various channels? If I could figure out what channels have what 5C flag, could probably narrow this down a bit better. Anyone in the legacy areas still hanging onto Passport maybe?



I thinking you're talking a bit too high tech for me, but I gather what you are asking me is "Can TiVo show what channels are copy protected?" If that's what you're asking, I can see in the diagnostics screen what channels have what type of protection.


In TiVo language it sums up like this: 0X01= Copy freely, 0x02= Copy once, and 0x03= Copy never. So if you have copy once, you copy only to your DVR but you are blocked from copying anywhere else (like your PC, Mac, or even another TiVo). Copy never will allow a copy, but it will disappear within one hour after the copy happens. I've only seen this once and this was on the old Mojo or whatever it was called before that, and that was a TW error.


As far as a 5C flag, don't have a clue at what you're talking about unless my guess was right above.


It seems to me that you are limited even more then I am however in your ability to copy and that may just have to do with the area you live in. Since you have all digital and no analog they may have the copy never flag on channels that I can copy, like SciFi or USA etc. That kinda sucks. I don't understand TW's thinking on this, available for copy freely analog but not digital. It seems like they are simply limiting us from using our own equipment to full capacity. I can understand Pay Per Views and premium channels, but the rest doesn't make sense. At least not to me.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. 5C is basically that copy protection you are talking about. Just the technical term for it. Back on Passport the diag showed it as just that: Copy once, Copy Freely, Copy Never. Unfortunately Navigator ODN doesn't display that info anywhere. Checked both the Hardware and Software diag's.


Yeah, it is a bit depressing. No clue why TWC does this. I am in agreement that it's pretty stupid from a fair use standpoint. Not only that, but at least in my case it comes down to the fact that using a traditional capture card is overhwelming resource-wise and unusable unless I like to babysit it for dropped frames and such. At least with the firewire option, it's just the same as if I was transferring a file over the network at the given rate of the video (~4-6mbps for SD, anywhere from 12-20mbps for HD give or take.). Not even tasking for the most ancient hardware.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16077926
> 
> 
> i've tried to "volunteer" for the beta testing. Got a form email back but the guy took the time on the top to say, "I got it, you want to volunteer to test."
> 
> 
> Apparently regular TiVo owners are getting confused as to whether or not they need an adapter. It list the 3 models to qualify for the adapter.



Tivo S2 needing a tuning adapter? I lol'ed at that. That thing doesn't even use cable cards.


I have a friend who has a Tivo S2. My 8300HD kicks its ass.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16079836
> 
> 
> Tivo S2 needing a tuning adapter? I lol'ed at that. That thing doesn't even use cable cards.



The majority of TiVo owners don't even know what they have.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16079836
> 
> 
> I have a friend who has a Tivo S2. My 8300HD kicks its ass.



Other then the fact that it doesn't copy in HD, you're completely wrong.


You do not have home media. You can't transfer from one device to another. You can't show your digital pictures on your television, TiVo S2 owners can albeit they are not in HD. TiVo S2 owners can play mp3 files (actually smart S2 owners know how to play any file) from their PC or Mac. Since I have never actually seen Navigator I can't speak to your search functions but are you capable of simply looking up a show by typing in the name only? Do you have a wishlist? I know you don't have wishlist.


It's the same old arguments.


You can of course access On Demand and from that stand point you can beat the S2 but that's about it. And then again there is the distinct possibility that in attempting to record in HD it may not actually happen with the SA 8300. At least that's my experience and don't forget I record everything.


I would say your friend either didn't know or didn't show you everything the S2 can do.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16079959
> 
> 
> The majority of TiVo owners don't even know what they have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other then the fact that it doesn't copy in HD, you're completely wrong.
> 
> 
> You do not have home media. You can't transfer from one device to another. You can't show your digital pictures on your television, TiVo S2 owners can albeit they are not in HD. TiVo S2 owners can play mp3 files (actually smart S2 owners know how to play any file) from their PC or Mac. Since I have never actually seen Navigator I can't speak to your search functions but are you capable of simply looking up a show by typing in the name only? Do you have a wishlist? I know you don't have wishlist.
> 
> 
> It's the same old arguments.
> 
> 
> You can of course access On Demand and from that stand point you can beat the S2 but that's about it. And then again there is the distinct possibility that in attempting to record in HD it may not actually happen with the SA 8300. At least that's my experience and don't forget I record everything.
> 
> 
> I would say your friend either didn't know or didn't show you everything the S2 can do.



I know, the same argument. But one thing I do know about the Tivo S2 is that it cannot tune digital channels. Unless you use one of those IR sensors. That makes channel up/down browsing impossible, since there's a delay in changing the channel on the cable box. And if something is recording on a channel on the attached cable box, you can't watch any cable box channels.


And my search feature is better. I don't know how the HD versions work, but on S2 whenever he pushes the (tivo) button, the picture and sound go away. On all my menus I get a quarter screen picture and sound. Which is a must as I'm obsessed with the guide. Always looking for what else is on or using the search. To not have at least the sound of the show I'm watching is torture.


But hey, at least you can play music and pictures on it. Wait, I can do that with just my iPod and surround sound system. Or my camera's USB cable and the USB port on the side of my TV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16076085
> 
> 
> 
> On March 31 we will be adding the following new HD channels to our entire footprint:
> *Palladia (MTV's music channel) Channel 470*
> 
> Discovery Channel 449
> 
> USA Channel 443
> 
> Sci Fi Channel 476
> 
> Disney Channel 456
> 
> 
> On April 29, we will add the following new HD channels:
> 
> Bravo Channel 466
> 
> CNBC Channel 486
> 
> TLC Channel 450
> 
> Animal Planet Channel 452
> 
> ABC Family Channel 460
> 
> ESPN News (customer must have Digital Basic Tier) Channel 432
> 
> MLB (customer must have Digital Basic Tier) Channel 438
> 
> 
> We then plan to add at least five additional HD channels each month in 2009. We should end the year with about 100 HD channels.



I'm a little worried about something, why is Palladia listed as channel 470? It's not something you did hookbill, I see it is that way at OMW too. Channel 470 is Universal HD. Is TWC going to stop carrying UHD? They better not, it's the only HD channel that I watch on a regular basis.


Also, why do they have to scatter the channels out like that? Why are they putting stuff up on 476 and 486? The 470s are the HDTV tier channels. The 480s have HD PPV and VOD channels. Why mix regualr watchable channels in with that crap? The 450s are almost totally empty, yet Scifi and CNBC are being dumped in the 470s and 480s.


But I guess TWC thinks like I think!!! After too much green beer!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16080185
> 
> 
> I know, the same argument. But one thing I do know about the Tivo S2 is that it cannot tune digital channels. Unless you use one of those IR sensors. That makes channel up/down browsing impossible, since there's a delay in changing the channel on the cable box. And if something is recording on a channel on the attached cable box, you can't watch any cable box channels.
> 
> 
> And my search feature is better. I don't know how the HD versions work, but on S2 whenever he pushes the (tivo) button, the picture and sound go away. On all my menus I get a quarter screen picture and sound. Which is a must as I'm obsessed with the guide. Always looking for what else is on or using the search. To not have at least the sound of the show I'm watching is torture.
> 
> 
> But hey, at least you can play music and pictures on it. Wait, I can do that with just my iPod and surround sound system. Or my camera's USB cable and the USB port on the side of my TV.



The TiVo button is really used as an "all access" type thing. And they actually have two type of guides you can use.


It's the concept that's different and unless you actually worked it it's kind of hard to describe but you can use the transparent guide to search and find programming by time and channel. That doesn't make your programming go away. And with the latest updates, which the S2 has you can now easily jump from day to day by pushing one button.


I've worked with the SA 8300 and I will flat on out tell you that their guide is pretty cool. It's great for surfing, and the reason it works the way it does is because SA 8300 provides PIP, something no TiVo does so from that aspect, I see where you're coming from. But if you want to search for something and have no idea when it comes on, then that's where it falls short.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16080226
> 
> 
> I'm a little worried about something, why is Palladia listed as channel 470? It's not something you did hookbill, I see it is that way at OMW too. Channel 470 is Universal HD. Is TWC going to stop carrying UHD? They better not, it's the only HD channel that I watch on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> Also, why do they have to scatter the channels out like that? Why are they putting stuff up on 476 and 486? The 470s are the HDTV tier channels. The 480s have HD PPV and VOD channels. Why mix regualr watchable channels in with that crap? The 450s are almost totally empty, yet Scifi and CNBC are being dumped in the 470s and 480s.
> 
> 
> But I guess TWC thinks like I think!!! After too much green beer!!



Either it's a typo or they are moving it to another channel. I'd bet typo, hey, that letter still said Mojo remember?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16080281
> 
> 
> Either it's a typo or they are moving it to another channel. I'd bet typo, hey, that letter still said Mojo remember?



It better be a typo, or they can have their HDTV Tier back!










But I'm still put off by the channel line up. I don't understand why they're putting channels on positions above the HDTV Tier? Wouldn't they want to keep all the "real, watchable" HD channels that are 'free HD' under the HDTV Tier? It doesn't make sense to have so much empty space in the 450s, 460s and have channels in the 480s. I have seen the lineups of other areas with more HD channels, and they have the same confusing lineup. But at least they are putting ESPN and MLB in the 430s. I actually predicted that ESPN News would be 432.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16080510
> 
> 
> It better be a typo, or they can have their HDTV Tier back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm still put off by the channel line up. I don't understand why they're putting channels on positions above the HDTV Tier? Wouldn't they want to keep all the "real, watchable" HD channels that are 'free HD' under the HDTV Tier? It doesn't make sense to have so much empty space in the 450s, 460s and have channels in the 480s. I have seen the lineups of other areas with more HD channels, and they have the same confusing lineup. But at least they are putting ESPN and MLB in the 430s. I actually predicted that ESPN News would be 432.



Well, you notice they don't say anymore "Time Warner. We think like you do."










Because they don't.


----------



## Shark73

If someone doesn't mind answering a question that I'm sure has been talked about here before, I would appreciate the input: Is TWC in Strongsville (ex-Adelphia area) offering a newer HD DVR than the SA 8300? I've had this box for a few years and would like to see something new being offered soon. And no, I have no interest in paying for the HD Tivo. I know Tivo is better but its not worth it for the little amount of shows we record.


Thanks,

Jim


----------



## nickdawg

If you have an 8300HD, keep it. The newer version is the 8300HDC, which is exactly the same as the 8300HD, except the HDC box uses multi-stream cable cards and a different program for the guide, DVR, menus. The different program for the HDC boxes is much worse than the program used on the HD boxes.


Also, there are rumblings that Samsung is supposed to be developing a new DVR for cable companies. So far, they haven't been released yet and if/when they are, I doubt TWC NE Ohio is anywhere near the head of the list. Just look how long it took them to get SDV!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/16082486
> 
> 
> If someone doesn't mind answering a question that I'm sure has been talked about here before, I would appreciate the input: Is TWC in Strongsville (ex-Adelphia area) offering a newer HD DVR than the SA 8300? I've had this box for a few years and would like to see something new being offered soon. And no, I have no interest in paying for the HD Tivo. I know Tivo is better but its not worth it for the little amount of shows we record.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim



Jim, the latest from SA is the 8300HDC however I have heard negative comments and nicdawg exchanged his for th SA8300. Question I have for you is if you don't record such why do you want a different DVR?


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16082573
> 
> 
> Jim, the latest from SA is the 8300HDC however I have heard negative comments and nicdawg exchanged his for th SA8300. Question I have for you is if you don't record such why do you want a different DVR?



Thanks to both of you for the response. It's not that I want a different box...I'm happy enough with the 8300. I had a Tivo when I had D* and I do agree that Tivo is so much better.


My question about a new DVR was more interest if there is anything new since I've not read the forum in months and I read on the last two pages of posts that we are getting new HD channels the next few months. If you guys think the 8300 is the "best" (







) DVR offered at this time then I will stick with it.


I was being lazy and didn't want to read through a ton of post to find the answer....so I thank you again for the quick reply.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/16082648
> 
> 
> Thanks to both of you for the response. It's not that I want a different box...I'm happy enough with the 8300. I had a Tivo when I had D* and I do agree that Tivo is so much better.
> 
> 
> My question about a new DVR was more interest if there is anything new since I've not read the forum in months and I read on the last two pages of posts that we are getting new HD channels the next few months. If you guys think the 8300 is the "best" (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) DVR offered at this time then I will stick with it.
> 
> 
> I was being lazy and didn't want to read through a ton of post to find the answer....so I thank you again for the quick reply.



Just an FYI Sony has something either out there now or will have. Its a HD DVR that has no service charge. Try google for more info.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16082550
> 
> 
> Also, there are rumblings that Samsung is supposed to be developing a new DVR for cable companies. So far, they haven't been released yet and if/when they are, I doubt TWC NE Ohio is anywhere near the head of the list. Just look how long it took them to get SDV!



Actually, they are already available and have been in 'employee testing' in a number of regions. It'll eventually come around, just a case of when.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16083293
> 
> 
> Actually, they are already available and have been in 'employee testing' in a number of regions. It'll eventually come around, just a case of when.



Let me correct myself it was indeed Samsung not Sony.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. The actual model number is the SMT-H3090 and is one of the first specifically tru2way certified devices to hit the market. Docsis 2.0, MPEG4 decoding, 864Mhz tuner, 400mhz RISC processor, 384MB ram (compared to the 8300HDC's paltry 128MB when taking the java based software into account).


Last I heard that the NYC regions had it and as I stated up above, is in employee testing. Being tru2way/OCAP based, it is of course going to be running the ODN version of Navigator. Though compared to the current SA*HDC boxes, it'll have better specs to run it and at least won't be as sluggish.


Once again though, it's a wait and see thing as to how soon they'll be coming around.


Current spec sheet PDF: http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...090_080205.pdf


----------



## toby10

More evidence of the silliness of EAS "dire warnings" interrupting my TV viewing.

Even those most at risk (mobile homes in tornado alley) shrug off even the simplest, most effective, and FREE form of warning system:
http://www.weathernet5.com/weather/18965460/detail.html 


If those most at risk don't care, why the friggin hell should I care???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16083808
> 
> 
> Yeah. The actual model number is the SMT-H3090 and is one of the first specifically tru2way certified devices to hit the market. Docsis 2.0, MPEG4 decoding, 864Mhz tuner, 400mhz RISC processor, 384MB ram (compared to the 8300HDC's paltry 128MB when taking the java based software into account).
> 
> 
> Last I heard that the NYC regions had it and as I stated up above, is in employee testing. Being tru2way/OCAP based, it is of course going to be running the ODN version of Navigator. Though compared to the current SA*HDC boxes, it'll have better specs to run it and at least won't be as sluggish.
> 
> 
> Once again though, it's a wait and see thing as to how soon they'll be coming around.
> 
> 
> Current spec sheet PDF: http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...090_080205.pdf



It never occurred to me that the software running on these new DVR'S would be running the same software offered by the cable companies. But now it makes sense, how else could they do it and not provide a service charge.


I don't know what TiVo plans to do about it but I'm certain they will not step down to Navigators level. Hopefully they will provide a machine that has a new interface (TiVo really needs a new one) at a decent price.


Over the last couple of weeks I'm getting a better understanding of what Tru2Way is going to be, thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16083837
> 
> 
> More evidence of the silliness of EAS "dire warnings" interrupting my TV viewing.
> 
> Even those most at risk (mobile homes in tornado alley) shrug off even the simplest, most effective, and FREE form of warning system:
> http://www.weathernet5.com/weather/18965460/detail.html
> 
> 
> If those most at risk don't care, why the friggin hell should I care???



What cable system does this? I never see anything on TW like this. The only warnings I see are the ones the stations broadcast. They are annoying enough.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16083892
> 
> 
> What cable system does this? I never see anything on TW like this. The only warnings I see are the ones the stations broadcast. They are annoying enough.



WOW Cable, big RED bar across the top of the screen for any weather or Amber alert referring viewers to Ch 15 for more info.


I suppose there are some advantages to having a cable system that isn't as technologically advanced as others, as (apparently) your TWC system won't bother you to this level. Or, TWC has wisely chosen NOT to bother it's viewers with such nonsense.


----------



## Vchat20

You have to forgive us. Unfortunately most of us posting here are TWC customers for the most part. You are the only one I have seen post from what little WOW territory there is up in this part of the state.


Though I have seen mentionings before of some 'proactive' in-your-face alerts from them. Particularly with their HSI service they'll insert various alerts as they deem necessary into the top of every page you visit akin to the TV version. Shockingly at my brother's place down in the Columbus WOW territory I haven't seen evidence of either the TV or HSI alerts.


Like has been stated before, TWC seems to be pretty good about keeping it's use of their on-TV notice system to a minimum that I, personally, have noticed. nickdawg may argue that, but we know he's glued to the boo tube the way he rants and raves here and doesn't believe in using a DVR.


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16076085
> 
> *Right now we have over 60 channels in the platform and it is totally un-noticeable to the customer, unless you are one of the 50-60 customers in Northeast Ohio with a Cablecard TV. We're working on a solution for those folks, and will announce it soon.
> *



Wow, 50-60; that really is a low number. From the letter the plan is to give us HD/SDV boxes that can-not to PPV or VOD, for one year at the same price as our cable cards. After the first year prices are subject to change. As it is, I am not planning on taking this new box, as I have to turn in my cable card to get it. I might try and pick one up to "test" it though.


----------



## ed1202

After asking my contact at TW if there would be any functionality problems with the tuning adapters *in the ex-Adelphia areas* she responded this morning with...

_Good Morning,


Since your channels have not started switching yet, the Tuning Adapter won't be necessary until April 9.


Just for the sake of testing, I would like to see what happens when it goes on a TiVo prior to SDV starting.


Thank you!

Jeanie_


...if anyone's curious.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16086113
> 
> 
> After asking my contact at TW if there would be any functionality problems with the tuning adapters *in the ex-Adelphia areas* she responded this morning with...
> 
> _Good Morning,
> 
> 
> Since your channels have not started switching yet, the Tuning Adapter won't be necessary until April 9.
> 
> 
> Just for the sake of testing, I would like to see what happens when it goes on a TiVo prior to SDV starting.
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Jeanie_
> 
> 
> ...if anyone's curious.



Thanks for the update.


----------



## Dweezilz

There was mention by Nickdawg about 10 pages back that he was missing certain channels. I was looking for the Fine Living Network last night because there's speculation that Zane Lamprey's MOJO show 'Three Sheets' might be picked up by that network, but I discovered it's missing from my lineup even though we are supposed to have it on 158.


Nick what was the outcome of that issue? If that is indeed the channel Zane goes to, I need to get it!!







I wish a channel with HD had picked his great show up instead of FLN but SD Zane is better than NO Zane. No offiical announcment as of yet so it still could be Bravo or Travel which are the other rumors.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16083808
> 
> 
> Yeah. The actual model number is the SMT-H3090 and is one of the first specifically tru2way certified devices to hit the market. Docsis 2.0, MPEG4 decoding, 864Mhz tuner, 400mhz RISC processor, 384MB ram (compared to the 8300HDC's paltry 128MB when taking the java based software into account).
> 
> 
> Last I heard that the NYC regions had it and as I stated up above, is in employee testing. Being tru2way/OCAP based, it is of course going to be running the ODN version of Navigator. Though compared to the current SA*HDC boxes, it'll have better specs to run it and at least won't be as sluggish.
> 
> 
> Once again though, it's a wait and see thing as to how soon they'll be coming around.
> 
> 
> Current spec sheet PDF: http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...090_080205.pdf



Also, the new version of Navigator, ODN 3.xx, which is listed in my signature as ODN3, is supposed to more more stable and reliable than the current ODN 2 (electric blue menus) we have now. If you've seen an older 8300HD box or any TWC box running the latest version of MDN(with the new color scheme), that is exactly how the latest version of ODN 3 looks.


If the 8300HDC boxes can run this newer version of ODN with less flaws, I'm sure the Samsung boxes will run it even better.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16087460
> 
> 
> There was mention by Nickdawg about 10 pages back that he was missing certain channels. I was looking for the Fine Living Network last night because there's speculation that Zane Lamprey's MOJO show 'Three Sheets' might be picked up by that network, but I discovered it's missing from my lineup even though we are supposed to have it on 158.
> 
> 
> Nick what was the outcome of that issue? If that is indeed the channel Zane goes to, I need to get it!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish a channel with HD had picked his great show up instead of FLN but SD Zane is better than NO Zane. No offiical announcment as of yet so it still could be Bravo or Travel which are the other rumors.



The channels are "missing" because the *Brilliant and Wonderful People* at TWC decided to take some channels we had included with our Digital Cable service and put them in some kind of tier to squeeze an extra $5 out of us. Channels like Fine Living, DIY and a few other that used to be included with Digital Cable(channels that used to be over 100) are now in the "Choice Tier", along with most of the 'new' channels they added last year.


The Best thing that could happen to Zane's show is going to Bravo. We're getting Bravo HD on TWC at the end of April.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16087640
> 
> 
> The channels are "missing" because the *Brilliant and Wonderful People* at TWC decided to take some channels we had included with our Digital Cable service and put them in some kind of tier to squeeze an extra $5 out of us. Channels like Fine Living, DIY and a few other that used to be included with Digital Cable(channels that used to be over 100) are now in the "Choice Tier", along with most of the 'new' channels they added last year.
> 
> 
> The Best thing that could happen to Zane's show is going to Bravo. We're getting Bravo HD on TWC at the end of April.



We (Ex-Adelphia) don't have those choice tier pricing yet. But we will.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16088039
> 
> 
> We (Ex-Adelphia) don't have those choice tier pricing yet. But we will.



Yes you do. Take a look at the lineup. The channels in cyan are "Choice Tier".

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU022008.pdf 

108 PBS Kids

109 Boomerang

110 Nick Two

157 DIY

158 Fine Living

210 Ovation

390 Familyland


How stupid is TWC? $5 for 7 channels. They could just give us the damn channels and raise our bills by $5!!!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16085112
> 
> 
> You have to forgive us. Unfortunately most of us posting here are TWC customers for the most part. You are the only one I have seen post from what little WOW territory there is up in this part of the state..........



Hardly necessary, I know I'm in someone else's sandbox.









But I cannot resist the hook & nick show. It's like a train wreck: you know you shouldn't look, but you just have too!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16091210
> 
> 
> Hardly necessary, I know I'm in someone else's sandbox.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I cannot resist the hook & nick show. It's like a train wreck: you know you shouldn't look, but you just have too!



Nickdawg & I have toned it down. We both try to stay off the DVR feud though I admit there are times when nickdawg forgets and I can't resist getting into. Another no win battle.


Its not my intention to get him going and. Think he is trying not to go ballistic as much.


This is after all the CLEVELAND local HD thread. Once we get past SDV we should quiet down even more.


That doesn't mean that nickdawg will stop his ranting. He can't help himself.


I hope him and I have a very friendly rivalry. And heaven help the occasional fool who ticks both of us off.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16091210
> 
> 
> Hardly necessary, I know I'm in someone else's sandbox.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I cannot resist the hook & nick show. It's like a train wreck: you know you shouldn't look, but you just have too!



I know what you mean. I used to think that "Cleveland HDTV" meant we would discuss HDTV and DTV in the Cleveland, Ohio area, but now know that it's an acronym for "Contains Little Entertainment Value Except Laughing At NickDawg Having Dispropotionate Tantrums Vacuously".


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16088108
> 
> 
> Yes you do. Take a look at the lineup. The channels in cyan are "Choice Tier".
> 
> http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU022008.pdf
> 
> 108 PBS Kids
> 
> 109 Boomerang
> 
> 110 Nick Two
> 
> 157 DIY
> 
> 158 Fine Living
> 
> 210 Ovation
> 
> 390 Familyland
> 
> 
> How stupid is TWC? $5 for 7 channels. They could just give us the damn channels and raise our bills by $5!!!



Familyland is in the "choice" tier? It cost TWC 0, zip, nada for this channel. It's a "PI" channel (public interest, non commercial). It should be in the lowest tier.


----------



## hookbill

If they put us on tiers, I haven't noticed it. I pay the same that I have paid for a year now, and that's about 10.00 lower including Showtime and HBO, because I do a lot of complaining.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/16091623
> 
> 
> I know what you mean. I used to think that "Cleveland HDTV" meant we would discuss HDTV and DTV in the Cleveland, Ohio area, but now know that it's an acronym for "Contains Little Entertainment Value Except Laughing At NickDawg Having Dispropotionate Tantrums Vacuously".



Thank you. No offense meant nickdawg but I'd rather not be considered the ying to your yang.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/16091623
> 
> 
> I know what you mean. I used to think that "Cleveland HDTV" meant we would discuss HDTV and DTV in the Cleveland, Ohio area, but now know that it's an acronym for "Contains Little Entertainment Value Except Laughing At NickDawg Having Dispropotionate Tantrums Vacuously".





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16091787
> 
> 
> Thank you. No offense meant nickdawg but I'd rather not be considered the ying to your yang.



You're welcome. I know the official title is "Cleveland, OH - HDTV", but the only thing I could come up for "OH" with "Or Hookbill", so I think I (wisely) left it out.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16091740
> 
> 
> Familyland is in the "choice" tier? It cost TWC 0, zip, nada for this channel. It's a "PI" channel (public interest, non commercial). It should be in the lowest tier.



I just checked 390, there's a message "To Receive this Channel, Call Customer Care".


TWC: We charge for public interest channels.

We think like you think!


----------



## Vchat20

Wow. You're kidding?! Charging for a public access/interest channel like that? Methinks TWC needs a REAL good reality check before something bad goes down like their business.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Anyone seen a good deal on the Terk amplified mini log-periodic antenna? I saw one in a big box store and was astonished at the price they were asking.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dpadair* /forum/post/16099233
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if TWC of Akron (Northeast Ohio) provides the must carry OTA channels in HD. I have a tuner on my computer but it detects no channels at all and I'm trying to figure out if TWC simply doesn't provide any unencrypted ones or I have some other problem like a filter outside the house blocking them. (I have the TWC digital and HD packages).
> 
> 
> Is anyone out there in the Akron area receiving OTA HD channels on TWC?
> 
> 
> Also, is TWC NEO using SDV (Switched Digital Video) yet? If so, could that explain my problem?



TWC is mandated by the government last I checked to provide the locals in the clear. And last time I did a scan on my tv with the internal QAM tuner, each of the locals were picked up just fine on their OTA positions and some even (like WKYC) offered their subchannels. I know I got 3-1 and 3-2 on this end at last glance.


SDV's slowly being rolled out, but the locals are not on them and should not be.


As for the filter, it's highly doubtful. There's no easy way for them to differentiate what frequencies the digital and analog channels are run on and easily block them without interfering with other services. It would also be a huge waste of manpower to block what essentially is just the locals that you can get access to now on a Clear QAM tuner.


I would doublecheck your tuner and see if anything is amiss. Make sure it actually supports QAM tuning (ATSC/OTA Digital and QAM are two different beasts.), the cable run between the outside of the house to the tuner is in good shape and not killing the signal, stuff like that. Check the software as well to see if maybe a setting is off somewhere.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dpadair* /forum/post/16099512
> 
> 
> I've been messing with this for two days now. There is nothing amiss on the software side. Everything works great when hooked up to an antenna. And the HDHomeRun box certainly can receive QAM256 just fine, that's not a question.
> 
> 
> I'm going to go hook up the box directly to the incoming coax line because right now it is going through a 5-1000 MHz splitter (but that should work).



I suggest you have TW come out and do a signal check, specially if it works without the splitter.


If you're not receiving a strong enough signal that certainly will cause you problems in receiving HD channels, had that problem once myself and they put a power booster in the basement for me. End of problem.


----------



## nickdawg

What happened here?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16100064
> 
> 
> What happened here?



Best guess somebody got booted. Or AVS Forum had a problem. If somebody gets booted they usually remove all trace, but you can still see his copy from Vchat.


Edit he has quite a few posts, don't think he got booted. Must be AVS data base issue.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16100124
> 
> 
> Best guess somebody got booted.



Nope.


> Quote:
> Or AVS Forum had a problem.



Yup, some data got lost, but it does not appear it affected this topic.



> Quote:
> Edit he has quite a few posts, don't think he got booted. Must be AVS data base issue.



Actually, the OP deleted a number of his own posts.


----------



## hookbill

I'm getting some major sound drop offs on WKYC. It started when they went to break and now carrying on through the Today show. OTA, Satellite people?


----------



## hookbill

It's now just a mess of pixelation, unwatchable.


----------



## Vchat20

The SD analog channel on cable here looks fine. No sound or picture issues that I've seen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16103007
> 
> 
> The SD analog channel on cable here looks fine. No sound or picture issues that I've seen.



I'm talking about their digital channel HD 403 via TW. Don't know if it's still going on.


----------



## nickdawg

9:51---I'm watching Paula Deen on Today, 403 is fine.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16103117
> 
> 
> 9:51---I'm watching Paula Deen on Today, 403 is fine.



'They probably fixed it. All my other channels were OK.


----------



## ed1202

Yeah hook, I had some noticeable pixelization problems on 403 Sunday morning during the Channel 3 morning show. I thought I was having some line signal issues but it was only happening on 403. Seems to be clear today. Seems to be a channel issue.


----------



## nickdawg

I was going to say maybe it was SDV, but WKYC wouldn't be a SDV channel. But yeah, SDV BLOWS!!! I can't even watch one of the SDV HD channels on the 4250HD box. I just get a message on screen: "HDTV Only is currently Unavailable" and "Press A to try again".


"Unavailable"? "Try Again"? That's why TWC no longer says "we think like you think". Because now they think FOR you!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16105643
> 
> 
> I was going to say maybe it was SDV, but WKYC wouldn't be a SDV channel. But yeah, SDV BLOWS!!! I can't even watch one of the SDV HD channels on the 4250HD box. I just get a message on screen: "HDTV Only is currently Unavailable" and "Press A to try again".
> 
> 
> "Unavailable"? "Try Again"? That's why TWC no longer says "we think like you think". Because now they think FOR you!!!


































If you got a 4250HD box you are fully capable of two way communication so there should be no problem with SDV.


Just out of curiosity nickdawg, fire up your diagnostic screen on that channel and take a look at what your cable card reading says. Also see if you can fine the pids, and see if the pcr and video pid match up. If they don't then you have a CABLE CARD issue that TW headend will have to get involved in.


Lots of luck bud.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16105766
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you got a 4250HD box you are fully capable of two way communication so there should be no problem with SDV.
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity nickdawg, fire up your diagnostic screen on that channel and take a look at what your cable card reading says. Also see if you can fine the pids, and see if the pcr and video pid match up. If they don't then you have a CABLE CARD issue that TW headend will have to get involved in.
> 
> 
> Lots of luck bud.



It's only a problem on channel 471. 472 and 435 (both SDV) work fine. Also, the standard definition SDV channels work fine. I rebooted the box yesterday and it started working better. Before that other channels would freeze too. Also, now 471 doesn't have the unavailable message.


Strange, I checked the GOOD box (8300HD) and 471 is acting up on that one too. The picture breaks up and the sound is choppy. Must be a TWC problem. None of the other channels are like this.


----------



## hookbill

Then why are you ranting on SDV all of a sudden. You couldn't wait for SDV it was like the second coming. Or is this just nickdawg being nickdawg?


----------



## Rbuchina

Pretty quiet around here.


It must be the calm before the storm waiting for the new TWC HD channel additions at the end of March.


Ray


----------



## Trip in VA

 http://www.cleveland.com/books/plain...990.xml&coll=2 


April 1 is This TV day for WUAB 43-2.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16123205
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/books/plain...990.xml&coll=2
> 
> 
> April 1 is This TV day for WUAB 43-2.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Oh joy, you know I can't wait for that.


----------



## nickdawg

Whoopee!!! I'm so frakin happy!!










On a GOOD note, channle 5 finally fixed their "problem".


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16123205
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/books/plain...990.xml&coll=2
> 
> 
> April 1 is This TV day for WUAB 43-2.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Thanks-I get "This TV" on several Free-To-Air Satellite stations..They air Patty Duke and Mr. Ed weekdays along with mostly second tier MGM Movies..Incidentally Patty Duke, being an MGM-UA show, was one of the mainstays of then United Artists-Owned WUAB-43 when they first signed on in 1968. Now we need RTN in the Cleveland Market..(at least I want it)


----------



## ajstan99

FYI - just saw a crawl on The Weather Channel (that's where WOW posts their announcements) saying that USA-HD is being added on 4/21.


----------



## bassguitarman

I see on Ohio Media watch that WKYC may be moving tower sections around. Hopefully

they will soon be stacking the new tower !


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16127463
> 
> 
> I see on Ohio Media watch that WKYC may be moving tower sections around. Hopefully
> 
> they will soon be stacking the new tower !



I can't even get a hint of an OTA signal currently from them, however I am using just an indoor antenna.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16127810
> 
> 
> I can't even get a hint of an OTA signal currently from them, however I am using just an indoor antenna.



I have a roof top antenna and I get 3 just fine. My worst reception is WEWS 5. I was hoping when they fixed Nickdawgs line on the screen they maybe fixed their reception too. I tried watching Life on Mars OTA last night and had to revert back to cable after several dropouts in the first few minutes.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16127810
> 
> 
> I can't even get a hint of an OTA signal currently from them, however I am using just an indoor antenna.



NBC Channel 3 (digital 2) has always been our problem child too. Hopefully we'll both receive it better after June 12th, when they move to digital 17 which is in the UHF range. It seems to be those VHF channels like NBC and CBS (digital 10) that are spotty but they're both very low power as well.


ABC channel 5 (digital 15) has never been a problem but also has more power.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16128463
> 
> 
> I have a roof top antenna and I get 3 just fine. My worst reception is WEWS 5. I was hoping when they fixed Nickdawgs line on the screen they maybe fixed their reception too. I tried watching Life on Mars OTA last night and had to revert back to cable after several dropouts in the first few minutes.



The line was fixed last night, sometime before 7:30pm(when I started watching). ABC-HD primetime was beautiful. Today, I see the damn thing is back. What's their dysfunction? Is it like the vertical hold on one of those ancient TV sets? FIX IT!!


And about WUAB-2, if the date for OTA is April 1, then I think we can expect May or June 1 at least for it showing up on TWC!


----------



## jnk_avs

TWC Ch. 4 (WOIO, Cleveland 19). Is anyone else experiencing a "no audio" problem with Time Warner Cable Channel 4? I live North Ridgeville, Lorain County. Picture is fine, just the audio is missing and ONLY on channel 4. This started at 10:04 pm on Monday this week. I called their Customer "Support" number yesterday and was told, "wait 24 hours ... all will be fixed" (at least I think that is what they said ... my Spanish is asi asi).


Thanks!


----------



## Vchat20

WOIO (Channel 11 here in legacy territory) seems to be ok in the audio department down here.


----------



## Vchat20

Ok. This is going to be annoying if this becomes more common. Hopefully a bug that'll get worked out. Basically on my 8300HDC on rare occasions when turning it on as a warm boot, I won't get any 'picture' in terms of the actual channel that should be coming in. All the navigator menus show and work, but I don't get any audio or video on any of the channels and even the DVR'd recordings do the same thing. Have to unplug the box and reboot it and it goes back to normal. Happened this morning and has been the 2nd occurrence so far in the past ~2 months.


It's more irritating because everyone else in the house keeps assuming it's the tv and when they tell me I'm like 'If it died, I'm gonna cry'. But it's only the stupid box acting up.


----------



## nickdawg

WEWHD still has the black line during Oprah. Then the whole screen went black. Then a "News Channel 5 On Your Side" screen came on. That splash screen didn't have the black line. Then commercials and HD Oprah returned, with the g-damn black line(and the flickering at the bottom 'edge' of the picture).


----------



## nickdawg

They can't re-fix the problem they fixed yesterday but they can run the stupid news crawl about about their "On Your Side" job search help nonstop!


I hope some people at channel 5 will be looking for new jobs soon!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16130409
> 
> 
> Ok. This is going to be annoying if this becomes more common. Hopefully a bug that'll get worked out. Basically on my 8300HDC on rare occasions when turning it on as a warm boot, I won't get any 'picture' in terms of the actual channel that should be coming in. All the navigator menus show and work, but I don't get any audio or video on any of the channels and even the DVR'd recordings do the same thing. Have to unplug the box and reboot it and it goes back to normal. Happened this morning and has been the 2nd occurrence so far in the past ~2 months.
> 
> 
> It's more irritating because everyone else in the house keeps assuming it's the tv and when they tell me I'm like 'If it died, I'm gonna cry'. But it's only the stupid box acting up.



Well, either you got a cable card issue (doubtful) or the hard drive on those well built 8300 HDC is getting ready to bite the dust. A box just doesn't "act up" there has got to be a reason behind it and if you're having to reboot constantly it could be your hard drive.


Either burn DVD's or VHS and take the box back before it corks off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16130429
> 
> 
> WEWHD still has the black line during Oprah. Then the whole screen went black. Then a "News Channel 5 On Your Side" screen came on. That splash screen didn't have the black line. Then commercials and HD Oprah returned, with the g-damn black line(and the flickering at the bottom 'edge' of the picture).



Don't watch Oprah. That will solve that problem.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16130429
> 
> 
> WEWHD still has the black line during Oprah. Then the whole screen went black. Then a "News Channel 5 On Your Side" screen came on. That splash screen didn't have the black line. Then commercials and HD Oprah returned, with the g-damn black line(and the flickering at the bottom 'edge' of the picture).



just checked ABC 5.1 via ota and I don't see what you're describing on Oprah


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16130749
> 
> 
> Well, either you got a cable card issue (doubtful) or the hard drive on those well built 8300 HDC is getting ready to bite the dust. A box just doesn't "act up" there has got to be a reason behind it and if you're having to reboot constantly it could be your hard drive.
> 
> 
> Either burn DVD's or VHS and take the box back before it corks off.



Actually, I don't think it's so much the disk drive or the cablecard. The symptoms just don't jive with being related to those or else I'd have started to see other issues too like glitching during normal DVR playback (high bitrate HD recordings off WKYC are practically flawless. I record all NBC programming off there these days instead of local WFMJ).


Probably just a Navigator issue knowing everything else.


But hell. If it does die, no loss. Most of the recorded programming is just regular series stuff that wouldn't be missed if it went. Especially now that a lot of the shows have started to end their regular seasons.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16130779
> 
> 
> Don't watch Oprah. That will solve that problem.



I don't watch Oprah. I just watched today because the "over 900 pound woman" was on. I'm not a regular Oprah watcher.










Just watching this hour, I can see that 5 is pathetic, for reasons other than the black line on the HD channel. They had a news crawl running from beginning to end about their phone bank. Why not throw some news on the crawl too and make the channel like CNN. Plus there are popup ads after every commercial break about what's coming up on the news. I take it channel 5's biggest competitor is 19!

















I still see it at the bottom of the screen on the news, it's the same about 1/2 inch of black space between the picture and the frame of the TV set. Only on channel 5.


----------



## hookbill

I checked 5.1 OTA and it looked fine. I checked 405 TW HD earlier at the start of the news and I saw exactly what nickdawg described. Now I don't see anything at all wrong with the picture.


So whatever it is, it comes and goes, at least it's gone at this moment.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16130905
> 
> 
> Actually, I don't think it's so much the disk drive or the cablecard. The symptoms just don't jive with being related to those or else I'd have started to see other issues too like glitching during normal DVR playback (high bitrate HD recordings off WKYC are practically flawless. I record all NBC programming off there these days instead of local WFMJ).
> 
> 
> Probably just a Navigator issue knowing everything else.
> 
> 
> But hell. If it does die, no loss. Most of the recorded programming is just regular series stuff that wouldn't be missed if it went. Especially now that a lot of the shows have started to end their regular seasons.



It can't be a Navigator issue. If it was you know nickdawg would be on it like flys on you know what as much as he likes to complain.










Oh well it's your DVR do as you please but I'd at least try taking it back and getting another one. Heck all it cost is a little gas.


----------



## Tom in OH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16127810
> 
> 
> I can't even get a hint of an OTA signal currently from them, however I am using just an indoor antenna.



Hey Hook,

which indoor ota antenna are u using? just curious - Are u able to receive CBS 19(digital 10) and the others (5.1, 8.1, 43.1, 55.1)?


Thx,

Tom


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16130971
> 
> 
> I checked 5.1 OTA and it looked fine. I checked 405 TW HD earlier at the start of the news and I saw exactly what nickdawg described. Now I don't see anything at all wrong with the picture.
> 
> 
> So whatever it is, it comes and goes, at least it's gone at this moment.



Could this be a TWC issue? Right now on the news, it is still there. Last night Jeopardy, Scrubs, Lost and Life on Mars were normal. The news at 11 was fine too.


I see a problem with the picture: IT'S WRONG! The picture is pushed too far up on the screen. The top of the TV rating bug is butting up against the top of the screen and the ABC network bugs and ads are even more intrusive because the extra /2-3/4 inch of black space puts the screen clutter even higher on the screen than it is supposed to be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16131027
> 
> 
> Could this be a TWC issue? Right now on the news, it is still there. Last night Jeopardy, Scrubs, Lost and Life on Mars were normal. The news at 11 was fine too.
> 
> 
> I see a problem with the picture: IT'S WRONG! The picture is pushed too far up on the screen. The top of the TV rating bug is butting up against the top of the screen and the ABC network bugs and ads are even more intrusive because the extra /2-3/4 inch of black space puts the screen clutter even higher on the screen than it is supposed to be.



I saw the silver scratchy line you were talking about but right now it looks OK. Sorry nickdawg I did see it but not anymore.


----------



## nickdawg

5:28pm: I' still seeing it, almost 3/4 inches on the commercials.


Is your TV set to some kind of stretch or something? Maybe your TV is not as good on overscan. All of the other local channels look normal. It's just 405.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom in OH* /forum/post/16131001
> 
> 
> Hey Hook,
> 
> which indoor ota antenna are u using? just curious - Are u able to receive CBS 19(digital 10) and the others (5.1, 8.1, 43.1, 55.1)?
> 
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Tom



I don't remember the model number but it's a Phillips and it looks like the starship Enterprise with rabbit ears.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16131094
> 
> 
> 5:28pm: I' still seeing it, almost 3/4 inches on the commercials.
> 
> 
> Is your TV set to some kind of stretch or something? Maybe your TV is not as good on overscan. All of the other local channels look normal. It's just 405.



5:38 pm. I see so much of the screen that I actually see about a 1/16 of an inch under the "Lee Jordan" banner that was put up. No black, no silver line.


I can confirm I saw it earlier. Not now.


Edit: I'm not stretching.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jnk_avs* /forum/post/16130315
> 
> 
> TWC Ch. 4 (WOIO, Cleveland 19). Is anyone else experiencing a "no audio" problem with Time Warner Cable Channel 4? I live North Ridgeville, Lorain County. Picture is fine, just the audio is missing and ONLY on channel 4. This started at 10:04 pm on Monday this week. I called their Customer "Support" number yesterday and was told, "wait 24 hours ... all will be fixed" (at least I think that is what they said ... my Spanish is asi asi).
> 
> 
> Thanks!



no audio issues in Amherst ( fed from the same headend)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16131027
> 
> 
> Could this be a TWC issue? Right now on the news, it is still there. Last night Jeopardy, Scrubs, Lost and Life on Mars were normal. The news at 11 was fine too.
> 
> 
> I see a problem with the picture: IT'S WRONG! The picture is pushed too far up on the screen. The top of the TV rating bug is butting up against the top of the screen and the ABC network bugs and ads are even more intrusive because the extra /2-3/4 inch of black space puts the screen clutter even higher on the screen than it is supposed to be.



The black bar is not TWC's fault. I see it too on OTA and Dish Network, so it's broadcast that way.


I beleive the black bar is there in response to possible complaints about the top VBI flickering line that is seen whenever the picture is not true HD. The rest of our localshave found a different "fix" to VBI, I have not seen it on the rest of the channels lately (it does show up on some SD "cable" channels).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16131553
> 
> 
> The black bar is not TWC's fault. I see it too on OTA and Dish Network, so it's broadcast that way.
> 
> 
> I beleive the black bar is there in response to possible complaints about the top VBI flickering line that is seen whenever the picture is not true HD. The rest of our localshave found a different "fix" to VBI, I have not seen it on the rest of the channels lately (it does show up on some SD "cable" channels).



Last night the black bar was not there. ABC HD programming looked normal. Also, when they cut back to affiliate breaks, the black line wasn't there and the VBI flickering was not see either. The picture went from top to bottom of the screen. Even using the "screen position" setting on my TV, -30(the picture pushed all the way down) the VBI lines were completely gone. BOTH problems were fixed last night.


Personally, I'd much rather see the VBI lines, since they are only on commercials and SD upconvert programming, whereas the black line is on ALL programming, even HD, ruining it. Plus(the inner nerd in me comes out) I actually liked the VBI lines. Hey, I think it's pretty cool, all that program and other data sent with the program. Plus you can't see it on SDTV.


----------



## JJkizak

I get the line on the bottom occasionally OTA WEWS live news and it does change when they throw on the crawls. The line is so small it is not very distracting however. My overscan is approximately 2.5% according to AVIA test disc. The engineers probably think everybody's overscan is 10% or more so they don't care much.

JJK


----------



## hookbill

 The Consumerist is having a vote between Time Warner Cable and Ticketmaster. Vote today. Ticketmaster is winning.


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16136021
> 
> The Consumerist is having a vote between Time Warner Cable and Ticketmaster. Vote today. Ticketmaster is winning.



If only I could vote for both...


----------



## hookbill

Actually under the vote there is brackets for a variety of different companies that you may or may not hate beyond TW. Direct TV, Comcast are going head to head. Somethings are mismatched.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16136336
> 
> 
> Actually under the vote there is brackets for a variety of different companies that you may or may not hate beyond TW. Direct TV, Comcast are going head to head. Somethings are mismatched.



Too bad Directv isn't in Ticketmaster's place. I voted for TWC, but in reality I think Directv is worse than TWC.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, I have been toying with the firewire setup a bit more and found what I believe to be a foolproof setup.


Basically using VLC I can dump the raw TS stream to disk and it won't care about minor glitches or anything and keep trudging through. It even flies right through fast forwards, rewinds, stopping and restarting the playback on the dvr. Compare this to CapDVHS which seems to trip over it's own toes.


I dumped the a full 1h episode of L&O:SVU last night from WKYCHD using this method and even managed to nuke 70% of the commercials simply using the DVR controls (and a combo of TS Doctor and Videoredo for the rest). About 41 minutes of video, 2.79GB. (The original untouched 1h minues 5-10m of commercials TS file was like 3.5GB thereabouts) VLC was reading about an average of a 10mb/s rate during the process.


The only thing bugging me is the embedded CC data is really glitchy at least in VLC. Dunno if it's VLC's problem or the data itself is whacko.


Now though I'm waiting for the new HD channels to come around and crossing my fingers that TWC flubs up and doesn't set the annoying copy flags out of laziness/forgetfulness. One can hope anyway.







Monk, Psych, Burn Notice, Mythbusters, SVU HD reruns....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16137689
> 
> 
> Now though I'm waiting for the new HD channels to come around and crossing my fingers that TWC flubs up and doesn't set the annoying copy flags out of laziness/forgetfulness. One can hope anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monk, Psych, Burn Notice, Mythbusters, SVU HD reruns....



That my friend will not happen, unfortunately.


----------



## nickdawg

This week I notice that now UHD and MGMHD are SDV as well. So far, UHD(my favourite) works OK. But flipping through the 470s, right now I have "HDTV Only is currently unavailable Please try again later" on HDNET, as in the HDNET that costs $6 extra every month. HDN Movies has macroblocking and audio cutouts. MGM HD works. STO HD is a blocked up mess too.


These channels ALL used to wrk just fine before SDV. All the other HD channels are fine too. If this is what the future holds for the new channels, we're gonna be in a worse spot than we are now.


I'll try a reboot and see if that fixes anything. That's the usual 'fix' for everything.










After the reboot, STOHD and HDNET Movies work fine. UHD still works. HDNET and now MGMHD have the macroblocking.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16123205
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/books/plain...990.xml&coll=2
> 
> 
> April 1 is This TV day for WUAB 43-2.
> 
> 
> - Trip



TY Trip, I truly am looking forward adding another D station to the 8 I already recieve! ... I was curious to when this was going to start, I do get a info guide for THIS, but no picture yet.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16123978
> 
> 
> Whoopee!!! I'm so frakin happy!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a GOOD note, channle 5 finally fixed their "problem".



I know I should just 'Get Cable' if I want more commercialized stations... pulls out wallet, flip flip flip....


On a side note the GF has been taping Southpark for me, seems that TWC is scrambling some of this programming making it impossible to record on a VCR... guess they want you to rent a DVR with another additional monthly fee... pulls out wallet again, flip , flip flip...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16144113
> 
> 
> I know I should just 'Get Cable' if I want more commercialized stations... pulls out wallet, flip flip flip....
> 
> 
> On a side note the GF has been taping Southpark for me, seems that TWC is scrambling some of this programming making it impossible to record on a VCR... guess they want you to rent a DVR with another additional monthly fee... pulls out wallet again, flip , flip flip...



Well, I don't know much about VCR and cable but this is how it works. TW allows it's digital channels to copy once. So I guess theoretically the only copy it may allow is to a DVD, as you could take the VCR tape and copy it to anything else.


Just wrong, the way TW is bullying itself around by being too copy protective.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16144113
> 
> 
> On a side note the GF has been taping Southpark for me, seems that TWC is scrambling some of this programming making it impossible to record on a VCR... guess they want you to rent a DVR with another additional monthly fee... pulls out wallet again, flip , flip flip...



No, they are probably channels that were 'in the clear' by accident and they fixed the problem. Were the channels analog or digital?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16106020
> 
> 
> Then why are you ranting on SDV all of a sudden. You couldn't wait for SDV it was like the second coming. Or is this just nickdawg being nickdawg?



Here, I captured video of me flipping through the channels and put it on YouTube. The webcam PQ isn't the best and it turned out kinda bright, but it gets the job done. You can see how each channel in the HDTV Tier and STOHD breaks up. This never happened before these channels went SDV. Every one worked perfectly until recently.


Enjoy! Because I sure don't!









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zxdc34t5-4


----------



## Vchat20

Well unfortunately the only channel I have readily available in SDV is STOHD (I dunno if they still have the hidden SD channels or not. Didn't bother to look), but it looks fine on this end.


From the way your post sounds, I'd start pointing the blame on signal levels. Like VOD channels, the SDV channels utilize a preset block of QAMs outside of the normal channel frequencies. I checked my box while tuned into STOHD and it looked like it was sitting up around 794mhz or thereabouts which is really hitting the ceiling on our system (probably around analog channel 125 or so) but the signal was ok (-7db receive with a 35db SNR. A tad low, but within spec).


Other than the known specs about SDV, the channels are no different than their non-SDV counterparts. No new encoders used (maybe some statmuxer changes, but that would be about it), no special encoding schemes, etc.. So I'd put money on the incoming signal being the culrprit and not a newfound blanket 'SDV sucks' explanation.


----------



## hookbill

Funny how no one wants to even consider that the problem may be the DVR. Mayb nickdawga older SA 8300 and SDV don't do well in JD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16145623
> 
> 
> Well unfortunately the only channel I have readily available in SDV is STOHD (I dunno if they still have the hidden SD channels or not. Didn't bother to look), but it looks fine on this end.
> 
> 
> From the way your post sounds, I'd start pointing the blame on signal levels. Like VOD channels, the SDV channels utilize a preset block of QAMs outside of the normal channel frequencies. I checked my box while tuned into STOHD and it looked like it was sitting up around 794mhz or thereabouts which is really hitting the ceiling on our system (probably around analog channel 125 or so) but the signal was ok (-7db receive with a 35db SNR. A tad low, but within spec).
> 
> 
> Other than the known specs about SDV, the channels are no different than their non-SDV counterparts. No new encoders used (maybe some statmuxer changes, but that would be about it), no special encoding schemes, etc.. So I'd put money on the incoming signal being the culrprit and not a newfound blanket 'SDV sucks' explanation.



Here, the SDV channels seem to be on 573.000 MHz. SNR on each channel is between 35 and 36 db. Both TVs have no spliters in the line between the main splitter and the box. The main line from the drop coming from the street is split with a 4-way splitter. The signal levels with this splitter were sufficient in the past, pre-SDV. I'm blaming SDV because Universal HD worked last week, before going SDV. The HD Nets also used to work before SDV. I'm waiting for Tuesday when the 5 new channels come. If there's problems then, I'll call TWC.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16145742
> 
> 
> Funny how no one wants to even consider that the problem may be the DVR. Mayb nickdawga older SA 8300 and SDV don't do well in JD.



It's NOT the DVR!! It was manufactured on May 25, 2007. Plus, the SA 4250HDC is WORSE. I didn't even get picture on those channels. Just the "channel is unavailable" message.


----------



## hookbill

I'm really not trying to start trouble but couldn't it be possible its the DVR having problems with HD and SDV?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16145781
> 
> 
> I'm really not trying to start trouble but couldn't it be possible its the DVR having problems with HD and SDV?



I know.










But it's not the DVR. The other channels work fine, recorded shows work fine. Plus, the 4250HDC box has the SAME problems. The 4250HDC box is even worse. It won't let me see the broken up picture, just a not available message. Also, other HD channels work on the DVR.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16146139
> 
> 
> I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's not the DVR. The other channels work fine, recorded shows work fine. Plus, the 4250HDC box has the SAME problems. The 4250HDC box is even worse. It won't let me see the broken up picture, just a not available message. Also, other HD channels work on the DVR.



I didn't think my first post took so this one you quoted is a duplicate.


Now that I'm on a regular keyboard I can say, "Holy Crap, Batman. There's a major problem with that."


I'm headed over to the TiVo thread, I got a buddy over there who has TW and SDV. Oh, FWIW he's been unable to get proper guide data on his new HD stations for months and he was missing like 8 of them.


Anyway he has a tuner adapter I'll as about quality and any issues. It could be just because TW hasn't done the majority of it's areas with SDV yet and they simply don't give a rats behind about what you're getting right now.


Check back in a few.


----------



## hookbill

I notice that STO has a High School Basketball game on in HD at 4:00 pm. nickdawg or Vchat20 lets take a quick look at this around this time if you can and see if what I'm seeing is what you are seeing.


I can't upload any film like nickdawg did but it would be interesting to see if in fact SDV is the culprit, which I have no doubt it is.


It also occurs to me that even though you've been on SDV for a while this may still not be the final product, at least it better not be.


Anyway one of you guys try to get in front of a set around 4:00 pm today and lets take a look.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, I -probably- won't be home around the time but I'll definitely set it to record anyways.


In any case, like I said previously: I had checked it and had no problems with the channel so I dunno what nickdawg's problem is. I'll also see if I can check those hidden SDV stations sometime and see what their status is.


----------



## hookbill

I got a response from one of my TiVo buddies on SDV. Here's what he said, and he left a link too.


I wasn't impressed by the quality of Sci Fi HD, but mostly during Battlestar Galactica. It's seemed decent when I've looked at other times. Of course, there's nothing else to watch on "SyFy"







. The recordings that I've made of it have averaged 15 Mbps, which is plenty--I've seen really good PQ at considerably lower bit rates.


I haven't noticed any consistent crappiness in any of the other SDV channels. The guy who saw it might be in an area where they've taken a tact of both rate shaping and switched broadcast to manage bandwidth. There's nothing about SDV which should affect PQ in and of itself. As long as they put the same stream that they'd put in a linear channel in the dynamically allocated SDV space, there should be no difference.


I broke down the current usage of SDV for HD channels on my system in this ( http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/cgi-bin/...8160#POST38160 ) post on our local HDTV forum. I think that there are over 200 channels total in SDV at this point and they're going to add another 20 standard-def digital channels at the beginning of May. As far as I'm concerned, it's been so-far-so-good here, now that I have a Tuning Adapter







.


nickdawg, it could be a signal issue as well. Maybe they did something to screw up your signal. Also stuff happens. I'd show that to TW if I were you.


----------



## AdamPS

For all of us DirecTV'ers, it looks like SportsTime Ohio will be going full time HD (not just Tribe games) on April 1.

DBSTalk Link


----------



## Vchat20

Why haven't they been full time HD already? The incoming channel is already 24/7 HD and one would think it would be a waste and more equipment to keep it only HD during specific timeslots. What's the deal here?


Also, I checked STO here and no glitches whatsoever. Unfortunately the hidden SDV channels from before somewhere between 815 and 850 are dead now so STO is the only SDV channel that I know of that I have access to without the addon HD tier.


And lastly: /2/ more days.







And if they add USA early in the morning (hopefully during their 2AM-ish maintenance window), they always do a big SVU marathon on tuesdays from about 6AM to 5PM.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16150400
> 
> 
> Also, I checked STO here and no glitches whatsoever. Unfortunately the hidden SDV channels from before somewhere between 815 and 850 are dead now so STO is the only SDV channel that I know of that I have access to without the addon HD tier.



I've seen one glitch, but nothing like nickdawg showed us.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16150400
> 
> 
> And lastly: /2/ more days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if they add USA early in the morning (hopefully during their 2AM-ish maintenance window), they always do a big SVU marathon on tuesdays from about 6AM to 5PM.



OK, I know I'm pessimistic but I just have a feeling it's not going to happen on 3/31. Not hoping it doesn't I am just doubtful.


----------



## hookbill

I don't see anything wrong with STO either. Of course I don't have SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16150462
> 
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with STO either. Of course I don't have SDV.



STOHD is working fine on SDV today. Universal HD worked OK later yesterday(when I watched ECW at midnight). HD Net Movies works OK too. Only HD Net and MGMHD are acting funky.


IT'S NOT THE 8300HD!! That is the box I've had success on. I just rebooted the 4250HDC because it's still stuck on stupid today. I can't get anything other than the not available screen. It says press A to try again. Pressing A does nothing.


DAMN this thing is weird. UHD worked a few minutes ago but going from STO to UHD caused UHD to be all fraked up too. HD Net is still a mess. Too bad, Breaking Benjamin is on and I'd really like to watch that!


I don't f--king get it!! As I pass through the SDV channels, they work sometimes, but other times they're a blocky mess. I'm waiting until Tuesday. If the new channels act like this, I'm gonna ***** out TWC.


I'll bet they're busy, as I doubt I am the only one with this problem. How can this be "my fault" if I'm watching a blocked-up mess with a SNR of 35 or 36?


It is windy here and I see the cable line moving in the wind with the other wires. But if that were the problem, other channels would be suffering from this too.


EDIT: After rebooting the 4250HDC, the "Not Available" message is gone. UHD is the only SDV HD that works. STO, HDN, HDNMV and MGM are just blank screens.


----------



## hookbill

First, dude calm down. Nobody said it's your fault. YOU don't seem to get past the idea that it could, mind you could, be either you are having a signal problem (very likely) or you are having equipment problems. Since it's happening on 2 boxes I go for signal.


Also Vchat20 is in Native area. You got to have TW come out and look at this instead of getting yourself all worked up. You can't fix it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16150650
> 
> 
> First, dude calm down. Nobody said it's your fault. YOU don't seem to get past the idea that it could, mind you could, be either you are having a signal problem (very likely) or you are having equipment problems. Since it's happening on 2 boxes I go for signal.
> 
> 
> Also Vchat20 is in Native area. You got to have TW come out and look at this instead of getting yourself all worked up. You can't fix it.



I am calm.







I had TWC come out a few years ago and they did the whole diagnostic thing. That(and from AVS) is where I learned that 'normal' for SNR is somewhere around 35 or 36, which I have. That's why I'm convinced it is TWC's fault. These channels never had a problem before SDV, which was last week for Universal HD. HD Nets and STO have been acting up for a few weeks now. Also, standard definition SDV works flawlessly.


I know I'll have to call TWC, but I'm waiting until Tuesday night when the new channels come. If they're SDV and acting like this, I'll be more convinced it is a signal problem.


Also I have no doubt that Vchat is on a different head end on the existing TWC system.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16144591
> 
> 
> No, they are probably channels that were 'in the clear' by accident and they fixed the problem. Were the channels analog or digital?



Comedy Central, Analog


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16144194
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know much about VCR and cable but this is how it works. TW allows it's digital channels to copy once. So I guess theoretically the only copy it may allow is to a DVD, as you could take the VCR tape and copy it to anything else.
> 
> 
> Just wrong, the way TW is bullying itself around by being too copy protective.



Bad enough with the rates, & true, just blackmailing you into another monthly expense.... not good in todays economy.


I just took another 7% pay cut last week, in addition to the 20% one in January, when before these cuts I was making less than half I was 10 years prior. I do have to eat too.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16152320
> 
> 
> Comedy Central, Analog



What kind of TWC package do you have? Is it just the "basic channels only" deal with the under 20 channels only?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16152364
> 
> 
> What kind of TWC package do you have? Is it just the "basic channels only" deal with the under 20 channels only?



To get Comedy Central you would have to have at least basic plus.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16152414
> 
> 
> To get Comedy Central you would have to have at least basic plus.



But he said the other day that it was not able to be recorded. I was thinking it was accidentally passed through on a lower tier than basic and TWC fixed it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16152646
> 
> 
> But he said the other day that it was not able to be recorded. I was thinking it was accidentally passed through on a lower tier than basic and TWC fixed it.



What he said was his parents were not able to record on to VCR because TW is scrambling. My first thought was he was in native TW land where they have all digital, however he says it's analog. TW does not scramble nor do they block analog channels, so I will say that something else is causing a problem with the VHS recorder, I mean who uses those things still anyways? Maybe it's just old, needs heads clean, or they have a splitter and have a signal issue.


I get your point, that could be possible that you can see itt without a box it can't be decoded but most televisions today are cable ready and unless it was a very old television that's the only way I see that happening.


----------



## hookbill

It would seem likely at this point that TW is indeed going to go with SARA and Navigator with SDV. Having said that I fully believe they have a problem transferring SARA to Navigator or else they would have done so. They still have 10 days before the switch so I still think it's possible they may go to Navigator but if they don't I guarantee they had no choice.


I will also say this. There are a great deal of economically disadvantaged customers in the Metro Cleveland area, therefore I do not see the end of analog cable anywhere in the near future. You folks down in Native TW were fortunate they set it up that way where it requires a box. Here we will continue to see upgraded analog to digital on WOIO, WEWS, WJW, and WKYC which, IMHO is worst then just analog.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16153740
> 
> 
> It would seem likely at this point that TW is indeed going to go with SARA and Navigator with SDV. Having said that I fully believe they have a problem transferring SARA to Navigator or else they would have done so. They still have 10 days before the switch so I still think it's possible they may go to Navigator but if they don't I guarantee they had no choice.



Not happening anytime soon. Right now the priority is SDV, that's what Mr. Jascoe said. Believe me, there's no way possible to completely do Navigator in 10 days. When Navigator is downloaded, only one model of STB is done at a time. That way if any boxes are bricked during the download, there's not too much chaos or a shortage of equipment with people returning them. Plus there's lots of time after the download before they start doing other things. SDV didn't start over night after we got Navigator. Since TWC has spent all this time working on SDV for SARA, I assume SARA will be sticking around, at least until SDV is completely active and more channels are added.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16154128
> 
> 
> NSince TWC has spent all this time working on SDV for SARA, I assume SARA will be sticking around, at least until SDV is completely active and more channels are added.



There still is no indication that TW has done anything with SARA in regards to SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16154272
> 
> 
> There still is no indication that TW has done anything with SARA in regards to SDV.



Uhhh, what about the letter saying SDV starts April 9? Or the tuning adapter you're getting in two days?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16154988
> 
> 
> Uhhh, what about the letter saying SDV starts April 9? Or the tuning adapter you're getting in two days?



I'm talking about some type of activity that even shows they are testing it or getting ready to use it on the diagnostic screen. And as far as the tuner adapters, they are *available* after 4/1 and they are suppose to contact us by email or by phone as to when it will be FEDex.


Now I have to tell you the last time I was told this was when I had to change my modem for Road Runner, and no one contacted me. I ended up doing a Steve Fry letter and then I got my modem.


Here's another nifty piece of info about Time Warner, off topic but of concern I think to many. Do you know that they want to put a meter on our internet usage? That's right they want you to pay for what you use, which means that we would have to watch how many gigabytes we use to keep our bill down.


The evil that comes out of cable companies continues to amaze me.


----------



## hookbill

Just checked out the diagnostic screen on 4250. I can't say I've seen anything that has changed as far as SDV goes. I did have it on STO while I was watching and by God if I didn't see some cable card activity this time, so I may have missed that the last, oh I don't know 15 times I looked.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16152364
> 
> 
> What kind of TWC package do you have? Is it just the "basic channels only" deal with the under 20 channels only?



Actually it was my GF's cable setup... not sure what it is, think it goes from 2 thrugh 76 then some local access channels around 97-99.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16157917
> 
> 
> Actually it was my GF's cable setup... not sure what it is, think it goes from 2 thrugh 76 then some local access channels around 97-99.



Do all the channels still work when watching them live? If they do, I'd have to agree with Hook that it is the VCR's fault. Probably something wrong with it.


I'd suggest upgrading to a TWC HD DVR. But that's just me.










I'm sure Hook will jump in with another DVR suggestion.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16153707
> 
> 
> What he said was his parents were not able to record on to VCR because TW is scrambling. My first thought was he was in native TW land where they have all digital, however he says it's analog. TW does not scramble nor do they block analog channels, so I will say that something else is causing a problem with the VHS recorder, I mean who uses those things still anyways? Maybe it's just old, needs heads clean, or they have a splitter and have a signal issue.
> 
> 
> I get your point, that could be possible that you can see it without a box it can't be decoded but most televisions today are cable ready and unless it was a very old television that's the only way I see that happening.



I was thinking the heads too, but she recorded a show before & after & they were OK. Seems like some sort of copy gaurd system that produces jitters & verticle roll, I can see encoding in white on the verticle roll.


I think I'm going to try the head cleaning anyway. She is in originaly a Continental to Comcast to TWC area. No box, the cable goes directly into the VCR then into the set, cable ready tuner.


VCR??? Yeah I find it convienient for time shifting (& no monthly fee!







), though thanks to CEI wiping out the power supply on my one VCR during a brownout running @ 16 VAC for several hours... (likely a simple fix, though I have to totally dismantle the transport, & I would never be able to realign it) & lightning striking my other wiping out the tuner (still plays good though) ... time to hit Goodwill for another!







The heads in My VCR are clean, so the problem may be in hers, as she uses it quite often.


There is actually a place for a suppressor in the circuitry on both of these VCR's but they never installed it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16153707
> 
> 
> I'd suggest upgrading to a TWC HD DVR. But that's just me.
> 
> 
> I'm sure Hook will jump in with another DVR suggestion. .



No portability though, I was thinking of a DVD-R recorder with a digital tuner, though I'm not sure the bugs are worked out of these quite yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16157982
> 
> 
> Do all the channels still work when watching them live? If they do, I'd have to agree with Hook that it is the VCR's fault. Probably something wrong with it.
> 
> 
> I'd suggest upgrading to a TWC HD DVR. But that's just me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure Hook will jump in with another DVR suggestion.



Well I wasn't going to suggest it but since Bismarck440 is asking for portability I have to point out that TiVo provides that. On that same note I have to point out I'm a little p.o.'d at my own TiVo S3 right now. From time to time the S3 either can't see the TiVo HD or my Mac. The TiVo HD never has the issue. Doesn't happen often but it happens.


The solution is a reboot but it ticks me off that I have to do that. After all this is a TiVo I'm talking about not that piece of garbage from TW.


----------



## grantmc

I am also having issues with my 8300HD. Lately the picture on my HD channels have been breaking up (pixelly) and the sound also cuts in and out when the picture breaks down. It has been happening mostly on 403 (WKYC) and occasionally on 404 (WOIO). When I switch the my TV's Digital tuner (3.1 and 19.1), the picture and sound are fine! My older CRT TV that is also connected to the cable has terrible picture quality lately, so I don't know if that's related to the problem. Is it the 8300HD box or am I getting a weak signal from TWC? Should I call TWC and get them to come out?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16158066
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No portability though, I was thinking of a DVD-R recorder with a digital tuner, though I'm not sure the bugs are worked out of these quite yet.



Do they even make those? Those DVD recorders never really caught on like DVRs, there must be a reason(hint hint)







Besides, just because it has a 'digital tuner' don't expect digital cable. You'd need a cable card, which is a moot point now with SDV.


As far as 'portability', I'd use the DVD recorder for archiving, the DVR for general recordings. You can dump programs from the TWC DVR that you want to save or 'port'







.


For your case, I think the TWC box would be fine. Considering you use a VCR in 2009







, I think all the balls and whistles of Tivo are useless.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/16159280
> 
> 
> I am also having issues with my 8300HD. Lately the picture on my HD channels have been breaking up (pixelly) and the sound also cuts in and out when the picture breaks down. It has been happening mostly on 403 (WKYC) and occasionally on 404 (WOIO). When I switch the my TV's Digital tuner (3.1 and 19.1), the picture and sound are fine! My older CRT TV that is also connected to the cable has terrible picture quality lately, so I don't know if that's related to the problem. Is it the 8300HD box or am I getting a weak signal from TWC? Should I call TWC and get them to come out?



Have TW come out. If you don't see it OTA it could be the signal.


Or it could be the DVR. I went through 3 of those they were horrible.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16159382
> 
> 
> Have TW come out. If you don't see it OTA it could be the signal.
> 
> 
> Or it could be the DVR. I went through 3 of those they were horrible.



It's always the DVR for you, isn't it?










It might be the signal. Sometimes the boxes are more sensitive to signal issues.


----------



## JoeySR

I had the same problem last week. Because my digital tuner was fine it lead me to believe that the 8300 HD was the problem so I rebooted it and I have not had a problem

since. Prior to the reboot the problem was just on 403....


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm having problems with STO in Erie, PA. The picture breaks up every half hour exactly for about 45 seconds. TW has seen the problem but can't fix it. Could this be caused somehow by SDV?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16159974
> 
> 
> I'm having problems with STO in Erie, PA. The picture breaks up every half hour exactly for about 45 seconds. TW has seen the problem but can't fix it. Could this be caused somehow by SDV?



Wow. I'd be THRILLED if I could have that problem. I can't even watch the channel for 45 seconds.


----------



## hookbill

You don't even say what channel you are having an issue with. OK SDV does not cause picture problems, everything I've read doesn't show that.


Have your signal checked if you are having problems.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16160048
> 
> 
> You don't even say what channel you are having an issue with. OK SDV does not cause picture problems, everything I've read doesn't show that.
> 
> 
> Have your signal checked if you are having problems.



Hmmm...., STO is Sportstime Ohio, channel 435. It is the only channel I'm having issues with, so I sure don't want TW coming in and tearing apart all my equipment like they did last time. Their attitude is "See, it works fine as long as you disconnect all your tv's and only hook up the cable directly to one tv".


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16160038
> 
> 
> Wow. I'd be THRILLED if I could have that problem. I can't even watch the channel for 45 seconds.



What problems are you having with it?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16160066
> 
> 
> Hmmm...., STO is Sportstime Ohio, channel 435. It is the only channel I'm having issues with, so I sure don't want TW coming in and tearing apart all my equipment like they did last time. Their attitude is "See, it works fine as long as you disconnect all your tv's and only hook up the cable directly to one tv".



How many sets do you split off to?


If tech said that speak to area manager or write Steve Fry. However if you split to more then 2 units you may need an install.


TW also provides signal boosters if you need them. Nickdawgs STO CHANNELwas horrible.


I don't expect you guys to read the whole thread but please read a page or two back so we don't have t keep repeating ourselves.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16160073
> 
> 
> What problems are you having with it?



The picture constantly breaks up on all of the SDV HD channels. Right now I tried to watch 'Monk' on UHD. Unwatchable mess of blocking and audio dropouts. I even recorded it to show the TWC person when I call(I'm waiting until the channels are added tonight to see how the new ones act).


STO HD is usually breaking up or completely out.


----------



## nickdawg

Just In Case anyone forgot, here's a reminder!!







































> Quote:
> Without further ado, here's the list we have from Mr. Jasso, quoting him directly...with specifics about channels already slotted to be added to the TWC NEO lineup between now and the end of April:
> 
> 
> On March 31 we will be adding the following new HD channels to our entire footprint:
> 
> Palladia (MTV's music channel) Channel 470
> 
> Discovery Channel 449
> 
> USA Channel 443
> 
> Sci Fi Channel 476
> 
> Disney Channel 456


----------



## nickdawg

Holy Birdshit Batman!!! I just put on STO as a joke to see how it looks, and the picture is fine!! UHD is still fxcked up. So is HD Net and MGM HD. HD Net movie works OK now too.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16160175
> 
> 
> How many sets do you split off to?
> 
> 
> If tech said that speak to area manager or write Steve Fry. However if you split to more then 2 units you may need an install.
> 
> 
> TW also provides signal boosters if you need them. Nickdawgs STO CHANNELwas horrible.
> 
> 
> I don't expect you guys to read the whole thread but please read a page or two back so we don't have t keep repeating ourselves.



I have a 4-way splitter on my cable. It's a TWC installed and approved splitter. I have 4 separate TWC-installed cable lines in my house. All four worked perfectly until this month.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, I just checked again here and still absolutely no problems with STOHD so I still stand by the fact it is a signal problem somewhere. Or at the very least an isolated issue at your headend(s). Which that brings me to another point that with SDV, all channels in the pool will vary a bit between each headend (possibly each node as well as what I have heard previously, but I'm at a loss as to how since a node doesn't have the equipment necessary. In theory, each node should only have the equipment needed to convert the cable signal between fiber and Coax.). Everything from what frequency the channels will be running on to (possibly) the muxing and bitrates of each channel.


Still, I would check your signal levels, splits, etc.. And lastly if that is in good shape, my idea would be this: Call up CS and get a truck roll going. Once at your house, show them the glitching and the signal levels as shown by the box. For even more proof, move the box to be off the main drop with no splitters if at all possible. Make sure to engrave it into their head that it is not a signal problem and something farther up that should be escalated.


Also as far as the splitter conspiracy goes: I understand it all depends on the quality of the splitters and the cable and the signal levels coming in from the drop into the house. But regularly I run the 8300HDC in my room which runs through 2 TWC provided splitters, 2 runs of clean TW provided RG59, then an old 1ghz 5-way splitter, radio shack special RG59, an ancient 'T' 2-way splitter, and a 10 cent push-on cable that is included with every VCR since the dawn of time. And in every case I have never had any major signal issues to mention. I have even run an old Toshiba cable modem in the same spot and the signal was well within spec and I hit my rated speed perfectly.


----------



## hookbill

Anyone else think nickdawg will stay up all night waiting on those channels?


----------



## nickdawg

I think Hookdog is right!










I'm giving them until around 2 or 3. Then it's off to bed. I'm beat!


----------



## nickdawg

Is there an echo in here?


Is there an echo in here?


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. Same here. I'm not getting my hopes up too high, but I'll be awake till at least 4 and keeping an eye on things. If no new channels show by then, oh well.


Also, more testing with the firewire mess and it looks like Discovery is also an 'in the clear' channel and it kinda makes sense as I recall that Discovery mandated it be kept this way. My previous attempts must have been amiss. Hoping that this means the HD version is also wide open when they add it.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16160315
> 
> 
> Well, I just checked again here and still absolutely no problems with STOHD so I still stand by the fact it is a signal problem somewhere. Or at the very least an isolated issue at your headend(s). Which that brings me to another point that with SDV, all channels in the pool will vary a bit between each headend (possibly each node as well as what I have heard previously, but I'm at a loss as to how since a node doesn't have the equipment necessary. In theory, each node should only have the equipment needed to convert the cable signal between fiber and Coax.). Everything from what frequency the channels will be running on to (possibly) the muxing and bitrates of each channel.
> 
> 
> Still, I would check your signal levels, splits, etc.. And lastly if that is in good shape, my idea would be this: Call up CS and get a truck roll going. Once at your house, show them the glitching and the signal levels as shown by the box. For even more proof, move the box to be off the main drop with no splitters if at all possible. Make sure to engrave it into their head that it is not a signal problem and something farther up that should be escalated.
> 
> 
> Also as far as the splitter conspiracy goes: I understand it all depends on the quality of the splitters and the cable and the signal levels coming in from the drop into the house. But regularly I run the 8300HDC in my room which runs through 2 TWC provided splitters, 2 runs of clean TW provided RG59, then an old 1ghz 5-way splitter, radio shack special RG59, an ancient 'T' 2-way splitter, and a 10 cent push-on cable that is included with every VCR since the dawn of time. And in every case I have never had any major signal issues to mention. I have even run an old Toshiba cable modem in the same spot and the signal was well within spec and I hit my rated speed perfectly.



This is not a problem with the wiring in my house. It has all been checked out. I've been corresponding with STO in Cleveland and with TWC here. Actually, STO is very customer-friendly and has been working directly with TWC engineers here in Erie. TWC has agreed there is a problem with STO in Erie, and this is the latest email from them to the STO office. Unfortunately, the problem remains as of last night, and baseball season is almost here. There must be something about SDV that causes breakups exactly every half hour.


"Lo and behold, after receiving the finer details from this customer of

the specific times that he has seen the tiling problem, we have

confirmed that this problem does indeed exist exactly at the times he

mentions. Also, I was able to verify that this problem is isolated to

the Erie system only.


I believe the issue with STO-HD tiling has been resolved. I have been

monitoring it since last week and have not seen the problem after

several pieces of equipment have been reset."


----------



## ErieMarty

is anyone getting them this morning..??


Here in Erie, I didn't have them when I left for work this morning...


----------



## schandorsky

Here in Amherst, not only we not getting any new HD channels, we lost three HD channels plus numerous sd channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16161227
> 
> 
> is anyone getting them this morning..??
> 
> 
> Here in Erie, I didn't have them when I left for work this morning...



Now the day isn't over yet by any means but I will remind everyone they said "on or after 3/31"










Hang in there the day is young. I


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16161502
> 
> 
> Now the day isn't over yet by any means but I will remind everyone they said "on or after 3/31"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hang in there the day is young. I




I know..just don't understand why it might not be available today..but maybe tomorrow..


isn't it just about sending the channels through the cable lines ???


PS..anyone know the channel #'s of the new channels..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16161596
> 
> 
> I know..just don't understand why it might not be available today..but maybe tomorrow..
> 
> 
> isn't it just about sending the channels through the cable lines ???
> 
> 
> PS..anyone know the channel #'s of the new channels..



I wish I could tell you what's involved, I don't think it's complicated. USA should be whatever channel it's on already but in the 400's same with any other channels that are available in SD now.


I haven't even searched this morning, that's how confident I am they won't show up at least until this afternoon or evening.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16161499
> 
> 
> Here in Amherst, not only we not getting any new HD channels, we lost three HD channels plus numerous sd channels.



Well, isn't that just peachy!







Maybe that's a sign that something is being worked on?


----------



## cerickson99

I installed a roof top Antenna and am wondering if I need a better one. Some stations do not come in well. (lots of dropped frames)


Do you think after the final transition, stations will be using more power? How can I tell?


I live in Akron Oh, 44312.


Here are the stations from Antenna Web I should get and my status:


WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC - Mostly great

WOIO 19 CBS - great

WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC - Fair to good

WBNX-DT 55.1 CW - Un-watchable

WJW 8 FOX - Un-watchable


What do you think? Will a better antenna help or will the stations be changing anything to make this better?


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16161596
> 
> 
> I know..just don't understand why it might not be available today..but maybe tomorrow..
> 
> 
> isn't it just about sending the channels through the cable lines ???
> 
> 
> PS..anyone know the channel #'s of the new channels..



The following channels #'s were published on Ohio Media Watch:


443 USA

449 Discovery

456 Disney

476 Scifi


Also 470 was said to be Palladia but 470 is currently UHD so ???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16162071
> 
> 
> The following channels #'s were published on Ohio Media Watch:
> 
> 
> 443 USA
> 
> 449 Discovery
> 
> 456 Disney
> 
> 476 Scifi
> 
> 
> Also 470 was said to be Palladia but 470 is currently UHD so ???



heh heh that 470 issue had nickdawg's blood pressure up. I suspect it's a typo.


I haven't even bothered to look for any new channels yet. I may take a look in a few minutes.


----------



## hookbill

I'm currently recording "In Plain Sight" on USA SD, but I think I'll go ahead and set up a wish list for it in HD. That way if and when TW actually gets around to adding the channels I'll be all set.


Now try doing that on your SA 8300.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16162131
> 
> 
> I'm currently recording "In Plain Sight" on USA SD, but I think I'll go ahead and set up a wish list for it in HD. That way if and when TW actually gets around to adding the channels I'll be all set.
> 
> 
> Now try doing that on your SA 8300.



The 8300 could actually be setup in advance to record the show on all current channels but that isn't a good solution since it would record the show twice at the same time, once in SD and once in HD. You would then have to delete the SD. Also if you're recording anything else at that time it would create a conflict to resolve.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16162282
> 
> 
> The 8300 could actually be setup in advance to record the show on all current channels but that isn't a good solution since it would record the show twice at the same time, once in SD and once in HD. You would then have to delete the SD. Also if you're recording anything else at that time it would create a conflict to resolve.



It's not the same thing. You can't set up for a channel that doesn't exist. I actually can.


It would not have to cancel my current wish list since "In Plain Site." is on a wish list I simply have to add "HD" to the category and it would only record the HD version.


However to be perfectly fair I have to have guide data for it to know the show is on HD, so until Tribune updates it's media guide I would have to wait to do that or just create a separate wish list.


----------



## Red_Rabbit

I'm currently receiving the new channels.


443 is USA HD

449 is Discovery HD though it seems to have the exact lineup as discovery theater.

456 is Disney HD

469 is Palladia and

476 is SciFi HD


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Red_Rabbit* /forum/post/16162453
> 
> 
> I'm currently receiving the new channels.
> 
> 
> 443 is USA HD
> 
> 449 is Discovery HD though it seems to have the exact lineup as discovery theater.
> 
> 456 is Disney HD
> 
> 469 is Palladia and
> 
> 476 is SciFi HD



Yes, I've confirned they are up in New Phila.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16162537
> 
> 
> Yes, I've confirned they are up in New Phila.



I can confirm I'm receiving them in Bainbridge but one of my TiVos is not getting a signal. Phone call time, this happens to me everytime they add channels they forget one of my TiVo's.


----------



## Rbuchina

After a phone call to the wife at home, it looks like Mentor has NOT recieved any new programming yet.


Ray


----------



## scnrfrq

The new ones are up in Erie County, PA.


----------



## WilliamR

I got the new channels finally! SCI-FI HD!!!!!!!! SWEET. Been waiting for this one.


----------



## hookbill

Did a card pull on my TiVo HD, reboot and call to customer service now I got all HD channels on each set in the house. Well, not the one that is OTA.










Need to call TiVo now and have them add it to the guide.


----------



## rick490

All the new channels are SDV.


----------



## grantmc

Nickdawg is a little too quiet today....


Nickdawg: do you have the new HD channels? (I want to see if ex-Adelphia areas have them yet...)


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/16163310
> 
> 
> Nickdawg is a little too quiet today....
> 
> 
> Nickdawg: do you have the new HD channels? (I want to see if ex-Adelphia areas have them yet...)



I'm guessing nickdawg is too busy switching back and forth between Palladia HD and Disney HD to take time to read the forum.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16163379
> 
> 
> I'm guessing nickdawg is too busy switching back and forth between Palladia HD and Disney HD to take time to read the forum.



Naw, he's sleeping he was up all night waiting for them to come on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16163286
> 
> 
> All the new channels are SDV.



Not surprising, I fully expected them to be. Of course we still don't have SDV yet so that only applies in certain areas.


----------



## grantmc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16163501
> 
> 
> Naw, he's sleeping he was up all night waiting for them to come on.



So if he is asleep... is there anyone else in ex-Adelphia land that can confirm the new channels???


----------



## hookbill

I "assumed" this was going to be a Spanish HD channel but apparently it's some type of music channel. I'll have to take a look at the 4250 for guide info to see if they have anybody I like (doubtful).


----------



## nickdawg

Finally made it here to comment. The new channels are here!!!! But I do have to admit that when I woke up, I pulled a hookbill







. I was doubtful that I would see new channels, but they were there! Well, not on the 4250HDC







.


If you're not seeing the channels and you have a TWC box that has a "C" after the model number (xxxxHDC), try rebooting it. Sometimes those boxes are slow on picking up changes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/16163540
> 
> 
> So if he is asleep... is there anyone else in ex-Adelphia land that can confirm the new channels???



Well nickdawg is not in ex adelphia, I am and I've already confirmed. nickdawg is in native time warner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16163546
> 
> 
> Finally made it here to comment. The new channels are here!!!! But I do have to admit that when I woke up, I pulled a hookbill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I was doubtful that I would see new channels, but they were there! Well, not on the 4250HDC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> If you're not seeing the channels and you have a TWC box that has a "C" after the model number (xxxxHDC), try rebooting it. Sometimes those boxes are slow on picking up changes.



I admit that they came on about 1 hour sooner then I thought.


----------



## grantmc

Thanks Hookbill! Now I have something to look forward to when I get home


----------



## Jim Gilliland

I can confirm that the new channels have arrived on my ex-Adelphia, SARA-based SA8300HDC here in the Chagrin/Bainbridge area.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16163286
> 
> 
> All the new channels are SDV.



If this is in fact the case I will need to compare my new SA4250 with my old Motorola box and see if the motorola box works. When I called my wife at lunch time she was in the family room and I asked her to switch to 443,449, 456, 469, and 476 to check for activer channels. I may need to send her to the office tomorrow for a DVR swap. That will suck. I like the guide info on the old Motorola box better than the new SA box.


Ray


----------



## Vchat20

I actually had mine showing the new channels without a reboot but when I tried to tune them it said I was not subscribed and had to call CS and all that BS. After a (painfully excrutiating) reboot, they are working perfectly. Got all my series recordings on USA and Discovery set for HD and ready to go.










Now while the Apr 29th date doesn't bring much interesting to me, what I am interested in is what is planned for the '5 channels each month in 2009' comment on OMW. I know beggars can't be choosers here, but I'd love to see what they have planned to add to the list.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16163820
> 
> 
> Now while the Apr 29th date doesn't bring much interesting to me, what I am interested in is what is planned for the '5 channels each month in 2009' comment on OMW. I know beggars can't be choosers here, but I'd love to see what they have planned to add to the list.



I'm looking forward to MLBnet in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16163797
> 
> 
> I can confirm that the new channels have arrived on my ex-Adelphia, SARA-based SA8300HDC here in the Chagrin/Bainbridge area.



Thanks Jim, I guess I should have been more specific when I confirmed it.


----------



## lbvp

new channels are up in Amherst ( old west Comcast zone)

had to do a box reset to ' wake up' the new channels


----------



## hookbill

It seems it doesn't matter what type of "box" you have as far as rebooting for the new channels. Several people reporting reboots necessary and I had one TiVo that didn't and one that did. Strange.


----------



## smoti17

Getting new HD channels okay on my Tivo HD, ex-Adelphia "Cleveland Suburbs 2".

Decent SciFi picture at last  Named in Tivo channel list, but no program guide data yet.

Didn't need to reboot or do any cablecard tweakery.


They don't seem to have broken BBC America so far, so I'm assuming as per plan no SDV in my area yet, but no shipping details on my SDV box yet either. 10 days to go..


Keith


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16164127
> 
> 
> Getting new HD channels okay on my Tivo HD, ex-Adelphia "Cleveland Suburbs 2".
> 
> Decent SciFi picture at last  Named in Tivo channel list, but no program guide data yet.
> 
> Didn't need to reboot or do any cablecard tweakery.
> 
> 
> They don't seem to have broken BBC America so far, so I'm assuming as per plan no SDV in my area yet, but no shipping details on my SDV box yet either. 10 days to go..
> 
> 
> Keith



I've already called TiVo and gave them all the new channels, however you may feel free to call them as well if you like.









Edit: And I just sent TW an email about those tuner adapters.


----------



## hookbill

As I mentioned in my previous post I've already called TiVo but please feel free to call them if you'd like. The more calls the better, imho. 877.367.8486


----------



## ed1202

TW seems to be a little behind schedule with the tuning adapter situation. Just recieved this e-mail today:

_Good Morning-


If I drop a Tuning Adapter off at the Station tomorrow, could you test it for me tomorrow night?


Thanks much!

Jeanie_


Mind you, I was supposed to get one to test on the 23rd... so that's where we're at right now.


-Ed


----------



## Vchat20

By pure luck here...Found out that USAHD (at least so far, knock on wood) is 'in the clear' (14-15mbps avg., 1080i). Gonna get a few shows set on the DVR from DisnHD, DiscHD, ScifiHD, and PalladiaHD and see how they fare.

 


Though more wishful thinking than anything else, I'd be shocked if the nature of SDV forced the channels in the clear (basically the thinking by the higher ups might be that since consumer owned QAM tuners can't tune into SDV channels, there's no need to scramble them or tag them copy never or copy once). But again, mostly wishful thinking and probably far from the case here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16165091
> 
> 
> By pure luck here...Found out that USAHD (at least so far, knock on wood) is 'in the clear' (14-15mbps avg., 1080i). Gonna get a few shows set on the DVR from DisnHD, DiscHD, ScifiHD, and PalladiaHD and see how they fare.



Saw this on my blackberry so I immediately tuned to USA HD 443 and looked at System Diagnostics (TiVo). I'm showing a code of OX02 = Copy once. So how you're getting that I don't know unless it's because you are receiving from a different head end. Don't plan on that being permanent but take what you can.


----------



## nickdawg

I still love seeing that USA HD bug!










Hey Vchat, are you getting these new channels on SDV? So far USA, Duscovery, Palladia are working OK, but SCIFI and Disney have been suffering from the same problems the other SDV channels had. I'm rebooting the box right now, but before that SCIFI was a broken up mess. Also, STO HD has been working OK today.


EDIT: All the channels are working OK on the 4250HDC except for SCIFI. The 8300HD was behaving the same way before I rebooted it.


EDIT 2: After rebooting the 8300HD, all the channels work, the HDTV tier works. Only SCIFI HD is breaking up. Same thing with the 4250HD.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16165149
> 
> 
> Saw this on my blackberry so I immediately tuned to USA HD 443 and looked at System Diagnostics (TiVo). I'm showing a code of OX02 = Copy once. So how you're getting that I don't know unless it's because you are receiving from a different head end. Don't plan on that being permanent but take what you can.



Very true. Especially with TWC in these parts, we can never tell for 100% sure. But like you said: I'll take what I can get.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16165359
> 
> 
> I still love seeing that USA HD bug!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Vchat, are you getting these new channels on SDV? So far USA, Duscovery, Palladia are working OK, but SCIFI and Disney have been suffering from the same problems the other SDV channels had. I'm rebooting the box right now, but before that SCIFI was a broken up mess. Also, STO HD has been working OK today.
> 
> 
> EDIT: All the channels are working OK on the 4250HDC except for SCIFI. The 8300HD was behaving the same way before I rebooted it.



Yeah. All of them are showing as SDV on this end. And they are a bit glitchy at times but certainly nothing serious. And I'm partly certain it is a signal issue on this end (the higher temperatures always seem to push the signal levels into borderline territory around here I have noticed.).


Also, I am extremely shocked. DisneyHD is in the clear here as well (again, for how long? The PMS'ing queen of 'RAWR COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT!').
 


Palladia HD was locked when I tried as is Scifi and Discovery. Discovery I'm wondering about because of my previous mentioning where they have previously mandated to keep their properties open (or at least their flagship Discovery Channel). And I even managed to get a clip off the SD channel last evening:
 


I'm somewhat wondering if either the upstream distribution or TWC are doing selective 5C (ie: copy once, copy never, copy always) tags per-program. In which case Scifi: Lost and Discovery: Deadliest Catch. Both of which are probably in their no-no area for copying.


----------



## Vchat20

It's only too bad that Navigator killed off any entry for copy protection in the diag menus. At least on Passport it would give a very clear 'Copy Once', 'Copy Never', or 'Copy Always' and discern between both tuners quite clearly even to the point of giving the channel ID as well to say which channel was set what copy flag, etc..


----------



## nickdawg

Another thing I hate: Discovery HD's "14:9 cropping" of 4:3 shows. Cash Cab is on right now. It's correct 4:3 on 130 but on 449 it has skinny bars, looks like it is top/bottom cropped. Boo!







The show graphics are flirting with the bottom of the screen.


This "channel currently unavailable" **** is seriously pissing me off. I though SDV channels were supposed to 'fit seamlessly' into the lineup. THIS IS NOT SEAMLESS!!


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I noticed the same thing. Though it doesn't bother me too much except that shows like cash cab with the graphics it's borderline chopping off viable material. But at least it's OAR even if it's cropped.


Also, either my last attempt was a glitch with my gear here or they are doing selective per-program 5C flags as DscHD is working during Cash Cab now.
 



> Quote:
> This "channel currently unavailable" **** is seriously pissing me off. I though SDV channels were supposed to 'fit seamlessly' into the lineup. THIS IS NOT SEAMLESS!!



Probably those of us like you, me, and hookbill 'stress testing' the system and hogging up all the SDV slots. The idea behind SDV is that there are a fraction of open frequencies available compared to the channels in the pool and the premise that not everyone is going to watch every last channel simultaneously. So the first day or two or so is probably going to be a tad rough while people like us investigate things.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16165687
> 
> 
> Probably those of us like you, me, and hookbill 'stress testing' the system and hogging up all the SDV slots. The idea behind SDV is that there are a fraction of open frequencies available compared to the channels in the pool and the premise that not everyone is going to watch every last channel simultaneously. So the first day or two or so is probably going to be a tad rough while people like us investigate things.



Not me today fellows, I'm busy doing other stuff. Anyway we still don't have SDV here.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16165091
> 
> 
> By pure luck here...Found out that USAHD (at least so far, knock on wood) is 'in the clear' (14-15mbps avg., 1080i).



On what physical channel? I haven't been able to find any of the new ones in the clear here.


----------



## Vchat20

Sorry if it's a bit confusing. I should rephrase it's not 'in the clear' in the sense it's a Clear QAM channel, but rather there is no copy protection on the channel so it'll transfer over the firewire connection off the STB provided by TWC. Any of the channels that are flagged with the right copy protection flag will not allow me to transfer shows off the box through firewire. Which seems to be just about everything bu the locals, Discovery, DiscHD, USAHD, and DisneyHD (thus far anyways).


All these newer channels are all going to be SDV so any Clear QAM or Cablecard devices not capable of using the Tuning Resolver are gonna be in the dark.


----------



## valerie8

I have all the new HD channels plus no problems with any of the old.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16165998
> 
> 
> Sorry if it's a bit confusing. I should rephrase it's not 'in the clear' in the sense it's a Clear QAM channel, but rather there is no copy protection on the channel so it'll transfer over the firewire connection off the STB provided by TWC.



That makes more sense. Having them not copy protected is a lot different from having them in the clear.


----------



## hookbill

I received an answer about the tuner converter saying my case has been "escalated" and I now have a ticket number.


Huh? Why is this even an issue and why do I need a case number. They contacted me saying they would call or email me. They haven't done it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16165616
> 
> 
> Another thing I hate: Discovery HD's "14:9 cropping" of 4:3 shows. Cash Cab is on right now. It's correct 4:3 on 130 but on 449 it has skinny bars, looks like it is top/bottom cropped. Boo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The show graphics are flirting with the bottom of the screen.



The other obnoxious thing is a channel that is HD, like SyFy HD







still shows some programs in the windowbox format. Why? If it's 16:9 OAR, why not show it full screen 16:9?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16166385
> 
> 
> The other obnoxious thing is a channel that is HD, like SyFy HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still shows some programs in the windowbox format. Why? If it's 16:9 OAR, why not show it full screen 16:9?



You've confused me.


How do you know it's 16:9? And what the heck is OAR? I think I've seen it before but I don't remember.


Anyway, it's this great hunger for "more HD" that causes TW to sign up channels even if they don't offer a great deal of HD. Remember the time Steve Fry's office wrote me to tell me that they are not interested in signing stations that don't offer quality HD and I asked them why the heck they even bothered with "My 43" then?


I just hope the few shows I watch on SciFi, the ones with original programming are in genuine HD. I've been waiting for Eureka in HD for some time now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16166470
> 
> 
> You've confused me.
> 
> 
> How do you know it's 16:9? And what the heck is OAR? I think I've seen it before but I don't remember.
> 
> 
> Anyway, it's this great hunger for "more HD" that causes TW to sign up channels even if they don't offer a great deal of HD. Remember the time Steve Fry's office wrote me to tell me that they are not interested in signing stations that don't offer quality HD and I asked them why the heck they even bothered with "My 43" then?
> 
> 
> I just hope the few shows I watch on SciFi, the ones with original programming are in genuine HD. I've been waiting for Eureka in HD for some time now.



If it is being shown in letterbox, it is 16:9 aspect ratio.


OAR = Original Aspect Ratio, the way it was intended to be viewed, without stretching or cropping.


Hook, if you like Stargate or Star Trek: Enterprise, you're out of luck. Both have been shown windowbox.


Speaking of quality HD, try to wrap your brain around this one. Yesterday TBS started using ESPN-style pillar bars on 4:3 content, except they only do it on COMMERCIALS!!! That's right! TBS still stretches 4:3 programming, but commercials are shown in 4:3 with bars. The stupidity of that network...


----------



## dennispap

You would have to post what antenna model,

some stations might be on vhf and some on uhf. You might have a uhf only antenna.


----------



## Ken H




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/16161888
> 
> 
> I installed a roof top Antenna and am wondering if I need a better one. Some stations do not come in well. (lots of dropped frames)
> 
> 
> Do you think after the final transition, stations will be using more power? How can I tell?
> 
> 
> I live in Akron Oh, 44312.
> 
> 
> Here are the stations from Antenna Web I should get and my status:
> 
> 
> WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC - Mostly great
> 
> WOIO 19 CBS - great
> 
> WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC - Fair to good
> 
> WBNX-DT 55.1 CW - Un-watchable
> 
> WJW 8 FOX - Un-watchable
> 
> 
> What do you think? Will a better antenna help or will the stations be changing anything to make this better?



What antenna are you using?


----------



## nickdawg

Well, I finally called TWC. 25 minutes on the phone with a TWC tech who seemed stumped by the problem. Both boxes were reset by the TWC computer, both still do not work. I have an appointment on Thursday morning for someone to come out and "check the signal".


After that, I tried what Vchat said. I took the box in the basement and plugged it directly into the main line coming from the drop. The only thing between the box and the line was a 5 foot cable line(brand new, usually used to connect the RF out to my TV) and a ground block to connect the lines together(as the line comes in by the basement ceiling). The box behaved the same way. Same channels didn't work.


Since both boxes have the same issues and the splitter/lines are not the problem, I'm guessing it's something along the line outside the house. Maybe on the street.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16167269
> 
> 
> Well, I finally called TWC. 25 minutes on the phone with a TWC tech who seemed stumped by the problem. Both boxes were reset by the TWC computer, both still do not work. I have an appointment on Thursday morning for someone to come out and "check the signal".
> 
> 
> After that, I tried what Vchat said. I took the box in the basement and plugged it directly into the main line coming from the drop. The only thing between the box and the line was a 5 foot cable line(brand new, usually used to connect the RF out to my TV) and a ground block to connect the lines together(as the line comes in by the basement ceiling). The box behaved the same way. Same channels didn't work.
> 
> 
> Since both boxes have the same issues and the splitter/lines are not the problem, I'm guessing it's something along the line outside the house. Maybe on the street.



I'll bet he tries to give you a new box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16167307
> 
> 
> I'll bet he tries to give you a new box.



I'll bet I'll make a hookbill-style scene!!










I'm going to focus on the other box more than the 8300. I'll talk about how that one always says "channel unavailable" and the problems with the new HD channels and the wiring. I'll try to ignore the 8300HD, even though it is on the main TV.


----------



## hookbill

TiVo rocks! Guide data now available for all new HD channels added today. TW gets a nod for working with them.


----------



## mnowlin

Finally got around to hooking up the tuning adapter to my Tivo tonight. Well, my wife did it... Other than her accidentally pulling the eSATA cable out and not realizing it, everything went smoothly. (The instructions don't mention external storage, so I'm not surprised she missed it.)


When you fire it up for the first time, it requests that you run a bunch of diagnostics on the tuner itself and it's interactions with the CableCards. Interesting bit I noticed - in several places on the diag screens, it mentions SARA....


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16168471
> 
> 
> Finally got around to hooking up the tuning adapter to my Tivo tonight. Well, my wife did it... Other than her accidentally pulling the eSATA cable out and not realizing it, everything went smoothly. (The instructions don't mention external storage, so I'm not surprised she missed it.)
> 
> 
> When you fire it up for the first time, it requests that you run a bunch of diagnostics on the tuner itself and it's interactions with the CableCards. Interesting bit I noticed - in several places on the diag screens, it mentions SARA....



Have you noticed anything with the new SDV channels? Any problems? I have TWC coming out Thursday, but I still wonder if anyone else had trouble? I'm thinking it is a signal problem with my house. Even the tech on the phone said they're going to come out and "check the signal". I hope it is a signal problem. They're not getting my SA 8300 back!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16168486
> 
> 
> Have you noticed anything with the new SDV channels? Any problems? I have TWC coming out Thursday, but I still wonder if anyone else had trouble? I'm thinking it is a signal problem with my house. Even the tech on the phone said they're going to come out and "check the signal". I hope it is a signal problem. They're not getting my SA 8300 back!



I checked a few of the channels and didn't notice any problems, but haven't put any real time into it yet.


Been reading your SDV saga, but I've been too brain-dead recently to reply... From what you're describing, I'd guess it's a signal problem. Most TWC techs put way too much emphasis on the 35-37 SNR. When it comes to digital channels, *especially* HD, the MPEG error rate is far more useful at times. Think "strength vs. quality"... Throw SDV into the mix where multiple channels can be sent down the wire at the same frequency as you tune them if the SDV switching equipment decides it's more efficient, and you'll see the same problems you're describing - a bunch of channels work well one day, but not the next.


----------



## nickdawg

By 'signal problem', I'm really hoping that means _anything other than the box itself_. I know it can't be either box, since both have identical problems. But I'm still stumped why this is happening. These HD channels were fine pre-SDV. Other non-SDV HD channels are fine right now.


I don't know why, but TWC seems very tight lipped about SDV. I played the role of the dumb customer on the phone(not sharing what I saw on the 'hidden menus' or mentioning SDV channels). I tired baiting them by mentioning the SDV Unavailable screens that I have recently seen, and he didn't say anything about it.


SDV is a strange animal. Just by flipping through channels and tuning to them in a certain order, a channel that was flawless a minute ago is unwatchable the next. And only USA HD seems to have been unaffected by any of the problems.


----------



## Vchat20

I am having some 'slight' issues with the new SDV channels this evening. But once again it's not showstopping or anything. And it all seems like upstream bugs that need worked out with the SDV muxing equipment.


First issue I had is none of the known SDV channels would tune in at all. No 'channel unavailable' messages or anything, just a black screen. STOHD, DscHD, DisnHD, ScifiHD, USAHD, and PalladiaHD. All just black screened.


Second shortly after the first I could tune them in but none of them had any audio. Only the SDV channels exhibited this. Standard SD and HD channels were fine. This eventually cleared itself up without retuning the channel like they unmuted it at the headend.


Third and final one is occasional and bearable dropouts where the feed will just freeze for a few short moments and come back with moving macroblocks for the first handful of frames.


I'm sure it's mostly growing pains right now initially seeing as STOHD had really been the only 'big' channel in the pool and with baseball season only recently starting up, it probably hasn't seen enough viewership yet this year to warrant any bugs showing up to the point of having CSR calls and truck rolls made.


nickdawg: When they come out to your place, make sure to try and show them definitively what you know so far, ie: same symptoms both boxes, rearranging of splits doesn't change anything, etc.. Of course this largely depends on how much of a knowitall the tech is (a lot of them around here seem fairly benevolent FWIW. Haven't had too many troubles with conflicting egos and they usually accept I know what I'm doing. At least has been the case with RR/Digital Phone hookup and the first losing round with this firewire mess and trying to swap the boxes about).


If anything and these bugs continue to show, in a polite way we can probably make it known enough to get it all sorted in an orderly fashion. By the very design of SDV, you can't cover every contingency with a small lab-grade test environment. The real test is a real world deployment like we have now.


----------



## brh-z2

NickDawg is right about the OAR of StarTrek:Enterprise. Show was filmed in HD and originally broadcast as such. Why SyFy is showing it in the window within a window 16:9 format is bizarre. I tuned in later to their reality show "WCG Ultimate Gamer" and it was full screen and looked very nice!


A shame we missed the finally of BSG in HD, but looking forward to the new seasons of Eureka, Stargate:Universe and Caprica!!


Just wanted to add that I am in the ex-adelphia area.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16168486
> 
> 
> Have you noticed anything with the new SDV channels? Any problems?



Yes! SDV broke my TV!


Well, maybe not. Maybe it's just coincidence that the projector bulb on my five+ year old DLP picked last night to finally fail.


But I'm blaming it on Time Warner.










Good thing I ordered a new one last year, just in case. Now I just need to install it.


----------



## Rbuchina

I got home and fired up the TV with the Motorola DCT 6416 DVR box and much to my surprize I had all the new HD cannel line up without any problems. I did not look at the bedroom TV (SA4250) until after 11pm. The guide info was there but there was no picture and just a low scrambled sound on each of the new channels. All the original channels worked fine. This morning I pulled the plug and reset it while getting dressed. I will check it out when I get home tonight.


I thought the old Motorola box was going to be the problem child.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

USAHD is down right now.


----------



## hookbill

If you haven't got your guide data yet, just have TiVo phone home.


----------



## schandorsky

Here in Amherst we went to a different operating software this morning. When I turned on the box and tv there was a message on the screen about the box and to call Time Warner. So I rebooted the box, now instead of a light blue background it's dark blue.


----------



## Trip in VA

Sci-Fi does not have the rights to Enterprise in HD. I believe HDNet bought those rights.


Or so I've been told.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16169582
> 
> 
> Here in Amherst we went to a different operating software this morning. When I turned on the box and tv there was a message on the screen about the box and to call Time Warner. So I rebooted the box, now instead of a light blue background it's dark blue.



So you went to navigator? Do you know if you were SARA before?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16169593
> 
> 
> Sci-Fi does not have the rights to Enterprise in HD. I believe HDNet bought those rights.
> 
> 
> Or so I've been told.
> 
> 
> - Trip



That's what I like about you, Trip. You have solid answers for us dummies.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16169606
> 
> 
> That's what I like about you, Trip. You have solid answers for us dummies.



Hah, you got lucky on this one. I'm an OTA guy and don't follow cable that closely.


What I *do* follow, though, is Star Trek.







That's the only reason I even remember that much.


- Trip


----------



## hookbill

USAHD is back up. This concerns TW people Sat and other cable companies, don't know if you had problems of course.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16169599
> 
> 
> So you went to navigator? Do you know if you were SARA before?



Yes I believe that is so. I really don't know the names of the operating systems, like I said the new one has dark blue back ground and the old was a light blue. When I rebooted the box it took twice as long than normal because it went though a bunch of numbers before it even got to the boot phase.


----------



## WilliamR

Why is everything on SCI-FI HD showing letterbox in 4:3 aspect ratio? Picture quality looks top notch, but why am I receiving these shows in non-widescreen? I've seen sci-fi HD show Atlantis in full screen glory and it was amazing. On mine it is 4:3. This is stupid.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16169719
> 
> 
> Why is everything on SCI-FI HD showing letterbox in 4:3 aspect ratio? Picture quality looks top notch, but why am I receiving these shows in non-widescreen? I've seen sci-fi HD show Atlantis in full screen glory and it was amazing. On mine it is 4:3. This is stupid.



Because either it wasn't filmed in HD or they do not have the rights to show it in HD. (Thanks Trip)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16169692
> 
> 
> Yes I believe that is so. I really don't know the names of the operating systems, like I said the new one has dark blue back ground and the old was a light blue. When I rebooted the box it took twice as long than normal because it went though a bunch of numbers before it even got to the boot phase.



Upon further review I have determined that what you got was a new version of Navigator. Light blue was the older version. You did not have SARA.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16169755
> 
> 
> Because either it wasn't filmed in HD or they do not have the rights to show it in HD. (Thanks Trip)



The really sad thing is that my UPN station was always this low budget station whose primary signal never made it to me and I ended up watching on a translator 80 miles away. In the middle of the third season, in typical low-budget fashion, the signal got a lot worse and I missed a lot of the third season and most of the fourth season. I still want to see the whole thing, but I just don't have the time to acquire the DVDs and watch them. Maybe over the summer I'll do it.


Oh, but Enterprise had a huge influence on me. Read my screen name and compare against the names of the characters on Enterprise and see if you find a similarity.










- Trip


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16169582
> 
> 
> Here in Amherst we went to a different operating software this morning. When I turned on the box and tv there was a message on the screen about the box and to call Time Warner. So I rebooted the box, now instead of a light blue background it's dark blue.



Same thing happened to me. Let me guess, it was a 4250HDC, right? Around 3:30 am I wake up to the box clicking off and the screen first said "CABLECard Firmware Update". After that it rebooted and the screen said the box was not authorized. Then I rebooted it manually and it went through a firmware download and when it finally came on, it had the new dark blue guide too! I'm happy it finally came. The old 'light blue' guide was hideous and the channel banner was too large. These new graphics actually look modern.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16169498
> 
> 
> Yes! SDV broke my TV!
> 
> 
> Well, maybe not. Maybe it's just coincidence that the projector bulb on my five+ year old DLP picked last night to finally fail.
> 
> 
> But I'm blaming it on Time Warner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing I ordered a new one last year, just in case. Now I just need to install it.



Wow, you had me scared for a minute!







Just when this seems like it can't get any worse, something worse is reported!


It's fun to blame Time Warner!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16169593
> 
> 
> Sci-Fi does not have the rights to Enterprise in HD. I believe HDNet bought those rights.
> 
> 
> Or so I've been told.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Of course. It all makes sense now. Some big, domineering network has a monopoly with the rights to the HD version.


What a shock!


----------



## Ben Music

Hey Guys, Does anyone out in Mentor/Elyria (old comcast area) with a Motorola hd box, or a Tivo S-3 get the 5 new HD channels? My Moto has all the guide info, but when I tune to one of the new channels, I get a not authorized screen. When I try the Tivo S-3, the guide shows a " to be announced" message, and also no picture or sound. Any ideas?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16170404
> 
> 
> Hey Guys, Does anyone out in Mentor/Elyria (old comcast area) with a Motorola hd box, or a Tivo S-3 get the 5 new HD channels? My Moto has all the guide info, but when I tune to one of the new channels, I get a not authorized screen. When I try the Tivo S-3, the guide shows a " to be announced" message, and also no picture or sound. Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Not in your area but I believe I can help.


On one of my TiVo's I had to pull the cards. I wrote down the numbers and called customer service and had them send a hit out to the cards while I rebooted. That brought in everything. (keep that number).


As far as your Moto if you got a guide you should receive programming. I would reboot the box and if that doesn't work call customer service. Your going to have to anyway for the TiVo.


I mentioned earlier you can obtain guide data for those channels if you have your TiVo do a call in. Good luck.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16170404
> 
> 
> Hey Guys, Does anyone out in Mentor/Elyria (old comcast area) with a Motorola hd box, or a Tivo S-3 get the 5 new HD channels? My Moto has all the guide info, but when I tune to one of the new channels, I get a not authorized screen. When I try the Tivo S-3, the guide shows a " to be announced" message, and also no picture or sound. Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



My Motorola DCT646 DVR box had all the new HD channels yesturday without any problems. I'm in Mentor. My SA4250 had the guide data but no picture so I rebooted this morning before I left for work. I will check it when I get home.


Ray


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16169576
> 
> 
> If you haven't got your guide data yet, just have TiVo phone home.



Yeah, ran through guided setup last night and getting guide data for the new channels just fine now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16171018
> 
> 
> Yeah, ran through guided setup last night and getting guide data for the new channels just fine now.



You didn't have to run through guided setup, at least you shouldn't of had to. My TiVo HD just happened to do a late afternoon call in and my S3 wasn't scheduled for one today so I just forced it (wireless).


I'm back and forth now with TW on the tuner resolver. Last email said they wanted my customer number so I gave it to them and asked why they needed a ticket for this? It's crazy.


I also told them get it straightened out or next email goes to Mr. Fry. In a polite way, of course.


----------



## brh-z2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16169755
> 
> 
> Because either it wasn't filmed in HD or they do not have the rights to show it in HD. (Thanks Trip)



Stargate Atlantis has been filmed in HD from the beginning. It appears to be owned by MGM and I know I've seen commercials on SyFy saying it was being broadcast in HD and to contact my service provider to get it. Possible growing pains?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/16171346
> 
> 
> Stargate Atlantis has been filmed in HD from the beginning. It appears to be owned by MGM and I know I've seen commercials on SyFy saying it was being broadcast in HD and to contact my service provider to get it. Possible growing pains?



I don't know. Basically I was repeating what Trip said because it made sense.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16170094
> 
> 
> Same thing happened to me. Let me guess, it was a 4250HDC, right? Around 3:30 am I wake up to the box clicking off and the screen first said "CABLECard Firmware Update". After that it rebooted and the screen said the box was not authorized. Then I rebooted it manually and it went through a firmware download and when it finally came on, it had the new dark blue guide too! I'm happy it finally came. The old 'light blue' guide was hideous and the channel banner was too large. These new graphics actually look modern.



Yes that is right, the 4250HDC. Why couldn't Time Warner reboot the box themselves? I could only imagine how many phone calls they got from people that had no idea of what was going on.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16171385
> 
> 
> Yes that is right, the 4250HDC. Why couldn't Time Warner reboot the box themselves? I could only imagine how many phone calls they got from people that had no idea of what was going on.



Handled by CSR's who don't know what they are talking about. Yesterday when I asked for the hit for my cable cards I was told "You can't get HD, you can only get that with one of our boxes."


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. Just checked here and my 8300HDC also got the mythical new ODN 3.1.1_3 . Yours must be a special case nickdawg because mine seems to be working fine here and no needed reboots other than the forced one at 3:30 this morning.


Lesse what new features we have....Of course the much more slimmed down channel banner. Actually is identical to the banner on the MDN software (what is loaded on the non-HDC boxes like the 8000, 8000HD, 8300, 8300HD, the cranky Pioneer STB's..), show recording priority, 'nearest tune' (enter a channel number that isn't really there, it tunes to the next known channel), recording a show in a specified timeslot (ie: record X at only 12:00PM).


Seems they have also added a few more pages to the diag menu. One now gives you more detailed info on the disk drive like Passport did. Kinda weird though looking at it but I swear the 8300HDC had a 180GB drive in it and it's saying there's only 148GB~ in the specified partition for recordings. Even with the whole 1000/1024 mess, it shouldn't be THAT low. Oh well. *shrug* Also have a few 'error log' pages towards the end.


Also seems to be just a slight bit more responsive now in a lot of scenarios.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16171487
> 
> 
> Now comes the real fun....To see if they fubar'd my firewire recording ability in any way. >


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16171385
> 
> 
> Yes that is right, the 4250HDC. Why couldn't Time Warner reboot the box themselves? I could only imagine how many phone calls they got from people that had no idea of what was going on.



The OCAP boxes are a PITA when it comes to changes(a TWC person told me this awhile back). That's why when any changes are made, like adding new channels, those boxes take longer to adopt the changes. The new channels didn't show up yesterday, until I 'helped' it along with a reboot.


----------



## nickdawg

If you used to have Passport with TWC, viewer discretion is advised for this website. Look at what Passport has to offer for OCAP/tru 2-way settops on Scientific Atlanta or Motorola platforms.


Look at this 16:9 guide:











Look at this channel banner:










http://www.macrovision.com/products/...nk_id=rightnav


----------



## Vchat20

Well, looks like you were right hookbill: They nuked USAHD, DisneyHD, and so far DiscoveryHD for me (though I'll try that one later this evening again like I did last night). Though I did notice A&E HD was open surprisingly (not like much interesting is on there anyways).
 

Otherwise, looks like nothing was killed. Just the same old with only having the channels they left open available to record from.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16172377
> 
> 
> If you used to have Passport with TWC, viewer discretion is advised for this website. Look at what Passport has to offer for OCAP/tru 2-way settops on Scientific Atlanta or Motorola platforms.
> 
> 
> Look at this 16:9 guide:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at this channel banner:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.macrovision.com/products/...nk_id=rightnav



Sad, isn't it? Passport was actually MODERN compared to the likes of the Gemstar IPG or SARA. And this right here just makes me wanna cry.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16172255
> 
> 
> The OCAP boxes are a PITA when it comes to changes(a TWC person told me this awhile back). That's why when any changes are made, like adding new channels, those boxes take longer to adopt the changes. The new channels didn't show up yesterday, until I 'helped' it along with a reboot.



Yep, welcome to the club. Just like I had to reboot one of my TiVo's. It seems that whenever they add a channel one of my TiVo's get it and the other one doesn't, and that's exactly what you experienced. It's tricky stuff.


There have been a few rare occasions when both TiVo's got new channels but almost always there is an issue with at least one of them. Usually a reboot and maybe a hit to the cards fixes it. PIA.


And passport looks pretty darn nice.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16172474
> 
> 
> Well, looks like you were right hookbill: They nuked USAHD, DisneyHD, and so far DiscoveryHD for me (though I'll try that one later this evening again like I did last night). Though I did notice A&E HD was open surprisingly (not like much interesting is on there anyways).
> 
> 
> Otherwise, looks like nothing was killed. Just the same old with only having the channels they left open available to record from.



These shows that you copy. What do you do with them? Can you make a DVD? Or is it just copy to your computer and that's it? Just curious, not accusing you of anything.


----------



## Vchat20

Nah, nothing bad in the eyes of a sane person....yet.










Actually I haven't done much with them so far. The screenshots I have posted in this thread over the past few pages are just watching the DVR playback live through VLC and using the snapshot feature.


But I have copied one episode of L&O:SVU and a recent episode of ER. The former was just to have a copy to watch while out of town last weekend (an actual legit use that these idiots never seem to account for) which, shocking enough, I was able to seamlessly stream to my brother's Xbox 360 hooked up to his gorgeous 1080p 52" plasma. The latter was at the request of my mother who seems to want to keep the final episodes on dvd.


But yeah, I can do whatever I want with it really. For the channels that actually work, I get just a normal TS file with an mpeg2 video stream, an AC3 audio stream, and even a closed captioning PID for a number of channels (mostly the HD channels I have noticed. They don't use the VBI for CC, but embed it as binary data in the mpeg container).


But for stuff like converting to dvd and all it is a slight bit involved largely because the transfer over firewire seems to (unfortunately) bring out some artifacts that's not seen during playback on the tv (gonna throw the blame to the STB on this one), but it's easily cleaned up with a few different programs. Then videoredo does a pretty good job of clipping out the commercials and converting and burning to a dvd.


Straight playback though I have had no trouble so far with the raw TS file. And this is using VLC, WMP12 (in Windows 7), and Media Center in Win7.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16171018
> 
> 
> Yeah, ran through guided setup last night and getting guide data for the new channels just fine now.



Ed I just got an email from Jeanie too. She is telling me that they "hope" to ship the tuner adapters to us "in the next several days."


I wrote her back and told her I know for a fact that they've had the adapters in the warehouse for over 3 weeks so why is there a delay? I also told her I will try to exercise patience but I fully expect to have the adapter before 3/9.


Looks like they got one person handling this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16172588
> 
> 
> 
> And passport looks pretty darn nice.



That wasn't what we had, but I wish we had it now. It looks better than Tivo!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16173652
> 
> 
> That wasn't what we had, but I wish we had it now. It looks better than Tivo!!



I agree it does LOOK better then TiVo.


TiVo needs an update real bad in the looks department. However everything else......


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16173056
> 
> 
> Ed I just got an email from Jeanie too. She is telling me that they "hope" to ship the tuner adapters to us "in the next several days."
> 
> 
> I wrote her back and told her I know for a fact that they've had the adapters in the warehouse for over 3 weeks so why is there a delay? I also told her I will try to exercise patience but I fully expect to have the adapter before 3/9.
> 
> 
> Looks like they got one person handling this.



Yeah, she might be "it" as the tuning adapter laison for TW...

Got to meet her in person today, very nice lady. So... I've got the TA in hand, I'll hook it up when I get home tonight. Got a three page "manual". One page is a copy of the official Tivo hook-up instructions. One page is a step by step "TW written" hook up instruction and page three is a list of the current SDV channels.


----------



## Vchat20










iGuide for Motorola hardware (Mostly seen on Comcast systems, Time Warner used it on GI/Mot hardware in the late 90s)










MOXI Guide


This is actually what we had previously before Navigator went critical:








Passport Echo -- Focused on DVR enabled STB's.









Passport -- Mostly for non-DVR STB's like the old cranky Pioneer boxes.


And then we have SARA:


















Navigator ODN v2 (Unknown MDN version)










Navigator ODN v3 (Unknown MDN version)


Passport I loved though. Even the legacy version on the old Pioneer box you could tell was tailored for the hardware. Had NO issues with it whatsoever. Even Echo on the SA8000 was no problem, ever. In addition, before TWC cut it all out, we had stuff like on screen instant bill payment via credit card, basic card games with the guide-like inset video in the corner, a combination news/local news/weather/movie showtimes channel/application, and of course the defacto caller id banner. And that's just scratching the surface of what applications were actually available for Passport. Right down to the end of it's life, I think I recall getting on screen package/tier subscriptions at least for a number of the subscribable VOD channels. It was also supposedly built to support multi-room capabilities too with backwards support to the plain Passport system so DVR'd shows could be viewed on the older non-DVR STBs. A Video Mosaic application (Basically video thumbnails of a handful of related channels on a single screen together.) was also optional but never put into service by TWC at least in this area.


Bash it all you want: Passport was, and still is, top of the line even in comparison to SARA and Navigator. And it is very close to Tivo if it wasn't for the fact that it relies on the cableco to push updates and features which is almost never.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16173896
> 
> 
> Yeah, she might be "it" as the tuning adapter laison for TW...
> 
> Got to meet her in person today, very nice lady. So... I've got the TA in hand, I'll hook it up when I get home tonight. Got a three page "manual". One page is a copy of the official Tivo hook-up instructions. One page is a step by step "TW written" hook up instruction and page three is a list of the current SDV channels.



If there is anyway you can scan those instructions and post them I'd sure appreciate it. If it's a pia then don't worry about it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16173908
> 
> 
> T
> 
> And the latest build of Navigator:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6046
> 
> 
> Passport I loved though. Even the legacy version on the old Pioneer box you could tell was tailored for the hardware. Had NO issues with it whatsoever. Even Echo on the SA8000 was no problem, ever. In addition, before TWC cut it all out, we had stuff like on screen instant bill payment via credit card, basic card games with the guide-like inset video in the corner, a combination news/local news/weather/movie showtimes channel/application, and of course the defactor caller id banner. And that's just scratching the surface of what applications were actually available for Passport.



It's much more developed then I realized.


The navigator guide looks a bit like my TiVo guide, at least the one I use.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16173736
> 
> 
> I agree it does LOOK better then TiVo.
> 
> 
> TiVo needs an update real bad in the looks department. However everything else......



Maybe if TWC actually had a DECENT, WORKING guide and DVR for once, they would be able to work on other unnecessary crap like Tivo has. Sure, TWC wants to sell their own entertainment crap. But if TWC could expand their VOD movie library by partnering with Netflix(and getting a cut of the profits) I'm sure they would do it. Except the Navigator could barely function to watch TV before. So forget about anything extra.


Right now Navigator is at about the level Passport (original) was in 2000. I had it back then and I hated it. It was still buggy and not quite ready for primetime yet. I loved the layout and UI design, it just needed to be faster and more reliable, like it was in recent years.


And Passport Echo. I will admit I DESPISED it when I first had it in early 2004. I think part of that reason was because I had that POS SA 8000 box. It improved over the years I had it(2004-2006), but when I got the SA 8300, it was night and day.


I was going through some papers the other day and I found some literature from Best Buy about Tivo, with a very (now) dated looking box pictured on it. Yes, at one point I was looking into Tivo. But the pocketbook voted against it. And I'm glad I did. The pre-cable card Tivos were a real POS. I've seen that IR sensor 'dongle' thingy and the delay in switching cable box channels. Worse than my 8000 SD was!










Speaking of IR sensors and as we get "nostalgic" here, anybody remember those IR sensors that used to be hooked up to the non-DVR boxes in the early 2000s? I remember thinking that was the coolest thing ever that I could record any cable channel without having to set up two timers on the VCR.


How the times have changed...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16173908
> 
> 
> 
> And then we have SARA:



I actually like THAT guide! I wish we had that on these boxes, looks like the old Passport guide for the existing boxes with less RAM than the newer ones.


I'll bet that the Pioneer boxes would perform better(maybe on level with Passport) if Navigator had an IPG version that was more basic for the lower RAM boxes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16174172
> 
> 
> I actually like THAT guide! I wish we had that on these boxes, looks like the old Passport guide for the existing boxes with less RAM than the newer ones.
> 
> 
> I'll bet that the Pioneer boxes would perform better(maybe on level with Passport) if Navigator had an IPG version that was more basic for the lower RAM boxes.



Nickdawg those guides are horrible looking. I'm willing to bet you're the only one who feels that way.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16174242
> 
> 
> Nickdawg those guides are horrible looking. I'm willing to bet you're the only one who feels that way.



Agreed. I dunno what IPG you had nickdawg, but SARA is absolute crap.


My brother in Columbus in WOW territory still has SARA on his 8300HD and it is slow as HELL, like 10x worse than navigator. Has less features than even navigator. And on the big 52" tv it looks like an absolute steaming pile. Aliasing out the wazoo, etc.. Reminds me of the old Weatherstar Jr's (Weather channel local on the 8's; Where it was mostly text based with few colors, before the current graphics/animation filled stuff.)


I don't think I could really stand SARA on an everyday basis. Navigator has it's days, but not nearly that bad. Passport was the king: both the non-DVR and Echo versions.


(Reminds me. I remember saying I was gonna post shots of the SARA interface next time I went down that way and I never have. I'll have to remember that next time I visit.)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16159294
> 
> 
> Do they even make those? Those DVD recorders never really caught on like DVRs, there must be a reason(hint hint)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, just because it has a 'digital tuner' don't expect digital cable. You'd need a cable card, which is a moot point now with SDV.
> 
> 
> As far as 'portability', I'd use the DVD recorder for archiving, the DVR for general recordings. You can dump programs from the TWC DVR that you want to save or 'port'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> For your case, I think the TWC box would be fine. Considering you use a VCR in 2009
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I think all the balls and whistles of Tivo are useless.



What is the reason DVD recorders with tuners never caught on?? No monthly fee??










Wouldn't this require me getting cable?? So there is nothing to timeshift OTA now huh?


Edit, I'm enjoying THIS TV now, that Mr. Ed is a scream!










I had taken a few of yours advice & purchased a new PC back in December, upon turning this wonderbox on, I was besieged with programs poping up on it asking for my credit card # to subscribe to all kinds of wonderful services it 'needs', I can imagine these will cost in excess of an additional $50-75/month.... It also refuses to do my everyday book keeping as it wants to be "upgraded" via the internet... so now it sits, I should have saved the $350.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/16161888
> 
> 
> I installed a roof top Antenna and am wondering if I need a better one. Some stations do not come in well. (lots of dropped frames)
> 
> 
> Do you think after the final transition, stations will be using more power? How can I tell?
> 
> 
> I live in Akron Oh, 44312.
> 
> 
> Here are the stations from Antenna Web I should get and my status:
> 
> 
> WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC - Mostly great
> 
> WOIO 19 CBS - great
> 
> WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC - Fair to good
> 
> WBNX-DT 55.1 CW - Un-watchable
> 
> WJW 8 FOX - Un-watchable
> 
> 
> What do you think? Will a better antenna help or will the stations be changing anything to make this better?



Sounds like a bad UHF/mid-upper UHF antenna....


19 great?? that's a first, but as you know 8 broadcasts on 31, & 55 on 30, how is your 61?


Of course you can always get cable







.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16174531
> 
> 
> What is the reason DVD recorders with tuners never caught on?? No monthly fee??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't this require me getting cable?? So there is nothing to timeshift OTA now huh?



I think the biggest thing is, at least from my perspective, is you still have the need to set up and IR emitter and timers to use with a cable STB like VCR's, most do not have cablecard slots that have QAM tuners, stuff like that. So it's just a VCR again but in higher quality.


In the case of a Tivo, Cable provided DVR, Media center PC, etc.., the automation with saying 'ok, record this show on this channel and watch the times' just nails it.


Once we upgraded to a DVR years ago, it was a godsensd. And it still is.


----------



## nickdawg

Seinfeld is now in HD on WJW. I don't know how long this has been going on but I just noticed it today. Guess that makes WJW the third channel with HD syndication.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16173056
> 
> 
> I wrote her back and told her I know for a fact that they've had the adapters in the warehouse for over 3 weeks so why is there a delay? I also told her I will try to exercise patience but I fully expect to have the adapter before 3/9.
> 
> 
> Looks like they got one person handling this.



There's likely a small army of people working on this, and you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Patience, Hookbill. It will happen when it's ready to happen.

.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16175415
> 
> 
> There's likely a small army of people working on this, and you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Patience, Hookbill. It will happen when it's ready to happen.
> 
> .



All I know is that TW said they would be available as of today. Not on or after. They said someone would either email us or call us. They didn't.


I just get irritated when they don't do what they say. And I do want STO by opening day. If its in SDV and I don't have the tuner adapter, no STO.


And they have had those adapters longer then what they are telling the public.


As I told her I will try to be patient. Its a quality I seriously lack.


----------



## nickdawg

And you say *I'M* impatient!


----------



## Vchat20

In some ways I agree with hookbill. Up to now they have (seemingly) been planning this stuff to line up just right. Get the tuning adapters out before the new SDV channels were added and make sure everyone would be on the same page once it all went live.


But whoever is in charge of this tuning adapter mess seems to have dropped the ball and you all apparently have some delays to deal with now. For your sake hookbill, I hope they get a tuning adapter shipped before STO starts airing regular season games. May just have to commandeer the SA box from the wife long enough for it.


----------



## Vchat20

Going back to OTA for the short moment, I think sometime this weekend I'm gonna hop over to the nearest rat shack and pick up a 300-75ohm balun and a few coax F connectors and see about bringing the antenna on this house back into service and see how well the signal works.


My question though is this: If I went from the 300ohm twin lead wires off the antenna and just spliced right into a 75ohm coax previously and then switch to using a balun instead, would I see much improvement? I'm not totally sure what a balun actually does or if it does a whole lot? Then again, I'm not an EE so sue me.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16174531
> 
> 
> What is the reason DVD recorders with tuners never caught on?? No monthly fee??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wouldn't this require me getting cable?? So there is nothing to timeshift OTA now huh?
> 
> 
> Edit, I'm enjoying THIS TV now, that Mr. Ed is a scream!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had taken a few of yours advice & purchased a new PC back in December, upon turning this wonderbox on, I was besieged with programs poping up on it asking for my credit card # to subscribe to all kinds of wonderful services it 'needs', I can imagine these will cost in excess of an additional $50-75/month.... It also refuses to do my everyday book keeping as it wants to be "upgraded" via the internet... so now it sits, I should have saved the $350.




The DVD recorders didn't really catch on cuz it's just one step above VHS with many of the VHS limitations. The only advantage a DVD recorder has over a DVR is portability. I remember back in my VHS days I'd lose half of my scheduled recordings cuz someone removed the tape or the tape would run out. This is where "portability" can work against you.










Those free trial programs your computer came loaded with are indeed a PITA. But it is those free programs that subsidized your purchase, lowering your out of pocket cost. They can all be disabled or uninstalled if you wish.


If you want a real eye opener, run a good third party security scan program (not one preinstalled) like Iobits Advanced System Care (free) http://iobit.com/ and I'll bet it finds around 30,000 security flaws on that brand new computer!


----------



## hookbill

Going off topic a bit here but I'd like to put in a nod to Gibson Research and Shields Up, in my mind the way to check your computers firewall to prevent anyone from maliciously using your PC. He has some freebies there as well like leak test and a very comprehensive test for your firewall. Also you can gather a great deal of information about PC security here. By all means take the Shields Up test and see how good your firewall is.


Since I have a Mac and run Windows at the same time I have ran it on my own firewall, and while it passed the firewall test it did not past the leak test.


On the Mac side of the computer it has it's own firewalls and Macs haven't had an attack in years.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16178152
> 
> 
> Going off topic a bit here but I'd like to put in a nod to Gibson Research and Shields Up, in my mind the way to check your computers firewall to prevent anyone from maliciously using your PC. He has some freebies there as well like leak test and a very comprehensive test for your firewall. Also you can gather a great deal of information about PC security here. By all means take the Shields Up test and see how good your firewall is.
> 
> 
> Since I have a Mac and run Windows at the same time I have ran it on my own firewall, and while it passed the firewall test it did not past the leak test.
> 
> 
> On the Mac side of the computer it has it's own firewalls and Macs haven't had an attack in years.



Yup, excellent testing site. It's comprehensive port testing that your computer failed is usually fixed by simply running the Advanced System Care (free) that I referred too previously, but it's only for Windows I believe.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16178226
> 
> 
> Yup, excellent testing site. It's comprehensive port testing that your computer failed is usually fixed by simply running the Advanced System Care (free) that I referred too previously, but it's only for Windows I believe.



Taking you up on that, going to run it on my windows, hopefully it doesn't hurt. I have had problems attempting to run Zone Alarm with Parallels which allows me to run windows and Mac at the same time. Downloading now.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/16161888
> 
> 
> I installed a roof top Antenna and am wondering if I need a better one. Some stations do not come in well. (lots of dropped frames)
> 
> 
> Do you think after the final transition, stations will be using more power? How can I tell?
> 
> 
> I live in Akron Oh, 44312.
> 
> 
> Here are the stations from Antenna Web I should get and my status:
> 
> 
> WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC - Mostly great
> 
> WOIO 19 CBS - great
> 
> WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC - Fair to good
> 
> WBNX-DT 55.1 CW - Un-watchable
> 
> WJW 8 FOX - Un-watchable
> 
> 
> What do you think? Will a better antenna help or will the stations be changing anything to make this better?



Wow. That is incredible. WJW for me has always been easy to receive... I'm 44313 with an indoor antenna by the way. With regards to WBNX, for about a month or so, I have been struggling to get it. I don't know why. 55, 8, 61, 43 were always the easy ones for me to receive.


It is hard to tell how the transition will affect your reception. Fox and NBC are moving on the spectrum.


Are you sure you have the antenna pointed in the correct direction? I just have a hard time seeing you not being able to get Fox unless Fox is having issues at the current time.


What type of antenna did you install?


----------



## hookbill

I just got an email today from TW:

_From your email, it is well evident you have a passion for your TV viewing and for our products. Thank you!


I am sending out a small 'early' batch of Tuning Adapters for customers to test. The goals of the test are to determine if the instructions are adequate and of, course, that the Tuning Adapters perform in the field.


Would you be interested in participating? I could Fedex you two Tuning Adapters tonight for delivery tomorrow morning.


Please advise,

Jeanie

TWC Product Group_


See, my "patience" paid off.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cerickson99* /forum/post/16161888
> 
> 
> I installed a roof top Antenna and am wondering if I need a better one. Some stations do not come in well. (lots of dropped frames)
> 
> 
> Do you think after the final transition, stations will be using more power? How can I tell?
> 
> 
> I live in Akron Oh, 44312.
> 
> 
> Here are the stations from Antenna Web I should get and my status:
> 
> 
> WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC - Mostly great
> 
> WOIO 19 CBS - great
> 
> WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC - Fair to good
> 
> WBNX-DT 55.1 CW - Un-watchable
> 
> WJW 8 FOX - Un-watchable
> 
> 
> What do you think? Will a better antenna help or will the stations be changing anything to make this better?



Since WKYC & WOIO are currently VHF signals (for their digital signals), and the rest are currently UHF signals it appears that your antenna may be either VHF only or suffers a loss in the UHF band (perhaps the lead-in cable or a balin is to blame). The fact you are having no problems with WKYC in Akron is actually a good sign, many have had problems with both WKYC and WOIO while your "unwatchable" stations come in fine.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16179377
> 
> 
> I just got an email today from TW:
> 
> _From your email, it is well evident you have a passion for your TV viewing and for our products. Thank you!
> 
> 
> I am sending out a small 'early' batch of Tuning Adapters for customers to test. The goals of the test are to determine if the instructions are adequate and of, course, that the Tuning Adapters perform in the field.
> 
> 
> Would you be interested in participating? I could Fedex you two Tuning Adapters tonight for delivery tomorrow morning.
> 
> 
> Please advise,
> 
> Jeanie
> 
> TWC Product Group_
> 
> 
> See, my "patience" paid off.



Good for you, hook.










Hooked up the TA last night night. No problems, TiVo recognized it right away. Steady green light; all good. Now the waiting game begins...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16181582
> 
> 
> Good for you, hook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hooked up the TA last night night. No problems, TiVo recognized it right away. Steady green light; all good. Now the waiting game begins...



See this is what I don't get. When she confirmed she would be shipping out the tuner adapters she linked me to the TiVo help page and then I just clicked tuner adapters. Seriously these things are idiot proof. Why in the world TW doesn't just go ahead and send them out is beyond me.


One thing it doesn't show and I think it has one is plugging in the AC power cord. For some reason TiVo's diagram doesn't show that, and in a way that's kind of important because you got to have someplace to plug that in. Preferably you want that on your UPS as well. I'll have to take a look and see what arrangements I need to accommodate that.


----------



## nickdawg

Time for me to add my experience with the TWC tech to this never ending Soap Opera we have here.


The tech came(on time, and surprisingly at the beginning of the 2 hour window). First he checked the signal levels out of the wire comeing from the wall to the SA 8300. Then he checked the 4250. After that it was down to the basement to look at the splitter. He checked the incoming line before the splitter(using his computer thingy) and replaced the ends of the coax cables and the signal splitter. One of the problems was the cable lines were frayed by the connector, and that was causing interference. After all that and a reboot of both boxes, the channels still did not work. He went outside to check the connections at the drop and ground block. I didn't see what he did outside, but the TV went dark a few times. Still didn't work. So he said the problem is outside and the 'outside people' will have to come fix that. I have another appointment tomorrow to replace the line outside going into the splitter.


He said that the signal coming into the house is fine, it's perfect, except there's some problem with the frequency used for the HD channels. I'm really stumped. I'm really wondering if that replacing the line tomorrow will fix the problem or is it in the boxes? It's never an uneventful moment with TWC.


Also, I didn't say anything about SDV or the diagnostics menus. I tried to get information, and I did. I mentioned the "channel not available" thing a few times. At first he didn't say anything about SDV. But as I watched him work and asked questions about things(showing I understand what's going on) he talked about SDV later and said "it's their new program they're using to free up space to add new channels". And the unavailable message is not part of this problem. When that happens you're supposed to keep pressing the A button or change the channel so it sends the request to show the channel. And he confirmed that they are adding many new HD channels. I asked about F/X, not sure when it is coming. But he did say Spike and Animal are coming this month.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16182018
> 
> 
> Time for me to add my experience with the TWC tech to this never ending Soap Opera we have here.
> 
> 
> The tech came(on time, and surprisingly at the beginning of the 2 hour window). First he checked the signal levels out of the wire comeing from the wall to the SA 8300. Then he checked the 4250. After that it was down to the basement to look at the splitter. He checked the incoming line before the splitter(using his computer thingy) and replaced the ends of the coax cables and the signal splitter. One of the problems was the cable lines were frayed by the connector, and that was causing interference. After all that and a reboot of both boxes, the channels still did not work. He went outside to check the connections at the drop and ground block. I didn't see what he did outside, but the TV went dark a few times. Still didn't work. So he said the problem is outside and the 'outside people' will have to come fix that. I have another appointment tomorrow to replace the line outside going into the splitter.
> 
> 
> He said that the signal coming into the house is fine, it's perfect, except there's some problem with the frequency used for the HD channels. I'm really stumped. I'm really wondering if that replacing the line tomorrow will fix the problem or is it in the boxes? It's never an uneventful moment with TWC.
> 
> 
> Also, I didn't say anything about SDV or the diagnostics menus. I tried to get information, and I did. I mentioned the "channel not available" thing a few times. At first he didn't say anything about SDV. But as I watched him work and asked questions about things(showing I understand what's going on) he talked about SDV later and said "it's their new program they're using to free up space to add new channels". And the unavailable message is not part of this problem. When that happens you're supposed to keep pressing the A button or change the channel so it sends the request to show the channel. And he confirmed that they are adding many new HD channels. I asked about F/X, not sure when it is coming. But he did say Spike and Animal are coming this month.



I thought for sure he would have a box in hand just in case. And how can the signal be "fine" from your house but a problem outside?


Well, have a nice adventure nickdawg. I just freed up a spot on my ups for the tuner adapter arriving tomorrow.


Can't wait to get SDV. Yep, looks like lots of fun!


----------



## nosey313

First - why the hell is TWC using two HD Discovery Channels to show the same thing?


Second - I still have the old school SARA on my SA8300HD. Was this Navigator software supposed to show up before the new HD channels?


Thanks.


PS...Nickdawg...if TWC would just add FX before Rescue Me starts, I will be able to live in peace with this crap. I'd even settle for halfway thru the season.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16182512
> 
> 
> First - why the hell is TWC using two HD Discovery Channels to show the same thing?



I don't get that either. One is suppose to be Discovery Theater and the other Discovery Channel but nobody told TW there was a difference.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16182512
> 
> 
> Second - I still have the old school SARA on my SA8300HD. Was this Navigator software supposed to show up before the new HD channels?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Careful what you ask for, you just might get it.


It would appear at this late date that TW is going with SARA in the exAdelphia area. Anything could happen, nickdawg says they can't go to Navigator now it's too late, I say that there is an issue converting SARA to Navigator or else they would have.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16182512
> 
> 
> First - why the hell is TWC using two HD Discovery Channels to show the same thing?
> 
> 
> Second - I still have the old school SARA on my SA8300HD. Was this Navigator software supposed to show up before the new HD channels?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> PS...Nickdawg...if TWC would just add FX before Rescue Me starts, I will be able to live in peace with this crap. I'd even settle for halfway thru the season.



One is Discovery "HD Theater", the original Discovery HD. That channel should go the way of Mojo, it's obsolete now that almost all the Discovery networks have HD simulcasts. Plus the programming sucks on HDT. All they show all day are CAR SHOWS!! Pointless waste of bandwidth, even on SDV.


No. SDV will be added to SARA. SARA is SDV capable, so TWC is not changing that out right now. Navigator will probably happen some time in the future. Once the new Sammy DVRs start being rolled out, they'll have to move to Navigator(as I doubt SARA would run on non-SA products).


I don't think F/X HD is coming before then. However, check the "HD Showcase On Demand" channel. They HD versions of CBS programming as well as Nip/Tuck from F/X. I'm hoping "Rescue Me" will be on Demand too, or I'm not watching it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16182153
> 
> 
> I thought for sure he would have a box in hand just in case. And how can the signal be "fine" from your house but a problem outside?
> 
> 
> Well, have a nice adventure nickdawg. I just freed up a spot on my ups for the tuner adapter arriving tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get SDV. Yep, looks like lots of fun!



I don't know! I have a bad feeling that fixing that line putside tomorrow might not fix it either. I don't know what's happening.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16182634
> 
> 
> One is Discovery "HD Theater", the original Discovery HD. That channel should go the way of Mojo, it's obsolete now that almost all the Discovery networks have HD simulcasts. Plus the programming sucks on HDT. All they show all day are CAR SHOWS!! Pointless waste of bandwidth, even on SDV.
> 
> 
> No. SDV will be added to SARA. SARA is SDV capable, so TWC is not changing that out right now. Navigator will probably happen some time in the future. Once the new Sammy DVRs start being rolled out, they'll have to move to Navigator(as I doubt SARA would run on non-SA products).
> 
> 
> I don't think F/X HD is coming before then. However, check the "HD Showcase On Demand" channel. They HD versions of CBS programming as well as Nip/Tuck from F/X. I'm hoping "Rescue Me" will be on Demand too, or I'm not watching it.



I'm simply amazed at what you can come up with.


What makes you think there is going to be a change in DVR's? You don't think SA isn't going to enter the Tru2Way market? And why do you say "New Sammy"? Assuming your talking Samsung, other companies are going to also produce DVR's so why is TW going with Samsung. Did this tech tell you this today, because you've never mentioned anything about that before.


I wouldn't buy into anything a tech tells you anymore then I would buy into what a CSR says. I remember when they told me the channels were going to realign within 30 days and it took over a year.


----------



## Vchat20

Not intending to be nitpicky, but technically SA has already entered the tru2way market. The current OCAP enabled HDC boxes are technically tru2way (I don't know the really extreme technical details, but OCAP and tru2way are pretty much interchangeable. I guess tru2way is more a consumer oriented marketing term.).


In fact, this is one interesting thought that crossed my mind a few days ago was that if you REALLY wanted to you could take the current HDC boxes TWC is offering to another system or even another provider who is also running OCAP systems, swap the cablecard with one of theirs and pair it up and have it actually work. Whatever software they use should be pushed to the box overwriting Navigator or whatever and bam. The only catches I can think of in that case would be that they usually force the techs to come out and pair it up and once they see the box a huge red flag would go up. That's about it. But why anyone would willingly want to continue using the POS is beyond me.










But yes, the whole idea for OCAP now is that a whole wide slew of manufacturers can get into the STB market rather than just the likes of SA/Cisco and Motorola and very few others because of old regulations to get Cablelabs certification. This is why you are now seeing Samsung getting into the business and soon other companies.


Unless TWC can get what problems worked out that are preventing moving their SARA equipment to Navigator, then it'll be down to waiting on equipment to die or customers swapping boxes to get people moved to the new system (OCAP and Navigator). Since current legislation means the old integrated security STBs can no longer be purchased and once the existing stock croaks, that's it.


And someone correct me on this (unfortunately whoever makes SARA seems to be -extremely- secretive because I can't find a single website anywhere), but SARA has never been updated with an OCAP build and is only available as native platform code for the older integrated security boxes. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it died off in a slow, agonizing death once everyone and their dog has moved onto OCAP/tru2way equipment.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16183004
> 
> 
> I'm simply amazed at what you can come up with.
> 
> 
> What makes you think there is going to be a change in DVR's? You don't think SA isn't going to enter the Tru2Way market? And why do you say "New Sammy"? Assuming your talking Samsung, other companies are going to also produce DVR's so why is TW going with Samsung. Did this tech tell you this today, because you've never mentioned anything about that before.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't buy into anything a tech tells you anymore then I would buy into what a CSR says. I remember when they told me the channels were going to realign within 30 days and it took over a year.



You need to get out more. The huge buzz over in the "TWC Navigator" thread is this new Samsung DVR---SNTH3090. Latest word is they're starting to give them out in NC already. It's supposed to be far superior to the SA box, including a 320GB hard drive. I've known about this a long time. I just mentioned it now because the subject of Navigator/SARA came up.


Here's the "New Sammy"!









http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...=SMT-H3090/TWC


----------



## InMedina

Might be old news, but I noticed we just picked up a new FREE OTA.

43.2, something called "This" network.

All movies ala turner with commercials.

Nice!

rumor about Sci-Fi channel in Cleveland OTA still around?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16183442
> 
> 
> You need to get out more. The huge buzz over in the "TWC Navigator" thread is this new Samsung DVR---SNTH3090. Latest word is they're starting to give them out in NC already. It's supposed to be far superior to the SA box, including a 320GB hard drive. I've known about this a long time. I just mentioned it now because the subject of Navigator/SARA came up.
> 
> 
> Here's the "New Sammy"!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...=SMT-H3090/TWC



Geeze, not much to talk about. I mean there's nothing about the size of the hard drive or what all it's capable of doing beyond just DVR. If it is capable.


It can't be a high end product, TW wouldn't ever buy anything like that. They are cheap.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16183498
> 
> 
> Geeze, not much to talk about. I mean there's nothing about the size of the hard drive or what all it's capable of doing beyond just DVR. If it is capable.
> 
> 
> It can't be a high end product, TW wouldn't ever buy anything like that. They are cheap.



It's more high end than the SA boxes. Plus it has a larger hard drive than the SA 8300. This SA8300 hard drive is already small enough. I can't wait to see how much I'll have to squeeze it once more channels I care about are asses.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16183571
> 
> 
> It's more high end than the SA boxes. Plus it has a larger hard drive than the SA 8300. This SA8300 hard drive is already small enough. I can't wait to see how much I'll have to squeeze it once more channels I care about are asses.



It does appear TW is in some type of arrangement for the Samsung box, but other then it being tru2way I can't find out much about it.


Why does it say "Can't decide between two shows? Now you can watch one program while recording another one."


Um, we can record 2 shows while watching one now. I think someone made an error there.


The reason I think TW has an arrangement is the link ends in TWC but how much more vague can it be?


Also I found a very laughable thread where people are saying they don't want it and they are happy with the SA 8300, one person said and I'll paraphrase, "It's just as reliable as my D-TiVo." Some seemed to think SA 8300 is a Caddy, it was pretty funny.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16182018
> 
> 
> He said that the signal coming into the house is fine, it's perfect, except there's some problem with the frequency used for the HD channels.



There might be signal ingress on that frequency from an OTA transmitter, a paging system or something else. Ingress can enter the system anywhere there's a compromise in the shield. If this is the case here, there could be a bad fitting at the pole, squirrel damage to the drop or something similar. Look at the diagnostics for the channel in question to obtain the frequency, then compare that to the OTA frequencies in use.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16183923
> 
> 
> There might be signal ingress on that frequency from an OTA transmitter, a paging system or something else. Ingress can enter the system anywhere there's a compromise in the shield. If this is the case here, there could be a bad fitting at the pole, squirrel damage to the drop or something similar. Look at the diagnostics for the channel in question to obtain the frequency, then compare that to the OTA frequencies in use.



You just know a little too much about cable, you know that?


If I didn't know better I'd swear you're a TW employee. Or maybe you're OMG, Cathode Kid = Steve Fry.


----------



## JJkizak

Noticed 43.2 OTA looking pretty good without a lot of pixelation.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16183995
> 
> 
> You just know a little too much about cable, you know that?
> 
> 
> If I didn't know better I'd swear you're a TW employee. Or maybe you're OMG, Cathode Kid = Steve Fry.



I can assure you that I am not Steve Fry.


Now move along, nothing to see here...


----------



## InMedina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/16184050
> 
> 
> Noticed 43.2 OTA looking pretty good without a lot of pixelation.
> 
> JJK



Owned by MGM, I googled it. Designed for subchannel type setups like 43.2

Hope the other stations follow suit with substations i.e. scifi! One weather channel is enough, between 19.2 and 3.2, 3 has it down-


----------



## Trip in VA

Sci-Fi is a cable channel. It is not available over the air.


- Trip


----------



## nickdawg

Here are the SDV HD channel frequencies:

STO HD - 597.000 MHz

USAHD - 573.000 MHz

Duscovery HD - 585.000 MHz*

Disney HD - 573.000 MHz

Palladia HD - 597.000 MHz

Universal HD - 573.000 MHz

HD Net - 585.000 MHz*

HD Net Movies - 573.000 MHz

MGMHD - 585.000 MHz*

SCIFH - 573.000 MHz


* = macroblocking problem.


Also, a few other things I noticed. As I flipped through the channels with the Diagnostics screen open, the frequencies change. When I did this the first time to record the numbers, Discovery was on 585.000 MHz and macroblocking. Now it is on 573.000 MHz and works fine. I think there is something wrong with the 585.000 MHz frequency. Whenever the channels act up, they're on that one.


Yep, it is 585.000 MHz. Whenever I change channels, frequencies change and whenever a channel is 585.000 MHz, it has trouble. Does any local channel(analog or digital) broadcast on 585.000? The only place I see it used is on TWC SDV channels. Most others are somewhere in the 600 range.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16185980
> 
> 
> Does any local channel(analog or digital) broadcast on 585.000? The only place I see it used is on TWC SDV channels. Most others are somewhere in the 600 range.



Highly doubtful. I don't have solid proof, but thinking about it from a technical standpoint, I doubt it'd either be possible or smart to mix normal digital non-SDV channels with SDV channels on the same frequency. Most certainly these frequencies are exclusively limited to SDV programming.


585mhz looks to be right at the spot for broadcast channel 33 though I don't see any broadcasters in the list sitting on that channel currently aside from analog 33 here but they're broadcast power on both analog and digital is so anemic, I have doubts the very minute points of ingress would be picking up enough to be problematic.


One possible check is to hook an analog set up to the cable line, switch it to antenna mode and tune to 33 and see if anything 'odd' can be seen? Different static pattern, faint channel ghosting, anything. If it doesn't look any different, it may be an issue farther upstream. But who knows really.


----------



## Trip in VA

585 MHz falls in the spectrum used by OTA channel 33. Not that I think that's terribly helpful to you, but...


Are those 12 MHz channels they're using? If so, it could be WQHS-DT 34...


- Trip


----------



## hookbill

Well not exactly. I guess I should have expected it but the tuner adapter Brings up a SARA Diagnostics screen, similar to what the cable card looks like.


TiVo still has it's own diagnostic screen. And while it's lit up right now there is no SDV to check, I have to assume it will work.


I can't seem to escape SARA. Oh well, it's what I got to do for SDV. Now to the install for the S3.


----------



## hookbill

For the curious, here's what a tuner adaptor looks like. Pardon the wires. Remember, these are for TiVo only to help it receive SDV.


----------



## InMedina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Trip in VA* /forum/post/16184970
> 
> 
> Sci-Fi is a cable channel. It is not available over the air.
> 
> 
> - Trip



Theres been talk of an OTA version. Local advertising- for substations after the switchover.

Just hopin'


----------



## smoti17

Nice that you got two adapters, Hook (& thanks for the pic !), I'm still waiting for even one :-(

Have prodded that Jeanie...


----------



## Ben Music

Hi Hook,

Well, I broke down and called TWC and asked them to hit my moto box's and

to my surprise, the 5 new HD chans came on no problem. After I hung up, I realized that I forgot to ask about My Tivo S-3. I had already done a complete reset the other day, and all the guide Info

filled in ok, but still no picture or sound on the new channels. All the other Cable Card HD channels are still ok. Before you hooked up the tuning adapter, did those 5 new channels come in ok, or do I need the tuner adapter hooked up to get them?


Thanks,

Ben Music


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16189150
> 
> 
> For the curious, here's what a tuner adaptor looks like. Pardon the wires. Remember, these are for TiVo only to help it receive SDV.



Holy Crap!














It's like having another cable box under the TV!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16189860
> 
> 
> Hi Hook,
> 
> Well, I broke down and called TWC and asked them to hit my moto box's and
> 
> to my surprise, the 5 new HD chans came on no problem. After I hung up, I realized that I forgot to ask about My Tivo S-3. I had already done a complete reset the other day, and all the guide Info
> 
> filled in ok, but still no picture or sound on the new channels. All the other Cable Card HD channels are still ok. Before you hooked up the tuning adapter, did those 5 new channels come in ok, or do I need the tuner adapter hooked up to get them?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben Music



Ben, you're in ex Comcast country and I don't know if you have SDV. If you have it already you can tell by tuning to STOHD on your TiVo. If you don't get a picture then you have SDV.


I'm assuming you don't have SDV. If you're not getting the channels here's what I suggest you do. First try rebooting. That may fix it. If it doesn't then pull the cable cards. This may cause you to lose everything but that's ok, write down the card number being careful to remember which card goes in what slot. Call TW customer service and explain simply that you don't have any channels and give them the card numbers. Tell them they are paired and ask them to send you a hit.


This may take more then one phone call if you get an uncooperative CSR. But that's the only way I know for you to do it. It's actually what I did, I didn't contact headend this time.


I received the HD channels on my S3, it was my TiVo HD that didn't get the hit. It's TW's fault, they are not hitting the cards like they should.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16190109
> 
> 
> Holy Crap!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like having another cable box under the TV!



Yep, it was bigger then I thought it would be. Good thing I had an extra shelf just for my eSATA where I could put it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16190299
> 
> 
> Yep, it was bigger then I thought it would be. Good thing I had an extra shelf just for my eSATA where I could put it.



Yeah, when you guys described it as a USB device I envisioned a small item like a card reader or mini USB hub.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16191074
> 
> 
> Yeah, when you guys described it as a USB device I envisioned a small item like a card reader or mini USB hub.



I could have sworn I saw pictures of them before and they were like half the size. Maybe there is a different model? Since this was Ciscoe (SA) maybe Motorola makes a different one.


Finding a spot for it on my TiVo HD, while easier to access is a space problem. About 1/2" of the thing hangs off the shelf.


----------



## schandorsky

I was just watching the SciFi HD channel and there is actually something in HD on it other than wrestling.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

My Time Warner horror story so far. I hate for this to be one of my first posts.


So I'm in Avon Lake, former Comcast land, and I have 4 hd moto boxes, well, parent's house. 1 is the DVR 6412 III, the other three are the 5000 something I believe. No problem with those 3 picking up the new hd stations this week. The DVR box kept saying Not Authorized for those channels, so I finally cave and give customer service a call.


First guy I call hangs up on me maybe, second guy tells me I need to call programming to upgrade so I can get the new channels, and then once I explain again I already have the channels on the other 3 boxes, he tells me he can't do a hit on this box because it's an old motorola box and then I'n need to schedule for a tech to look at it. Whatever, I hang up with him and try to keep resetting the box hoping for something different.


The third guy I call tries to run me through resetting again and then tries to do a hit on it. Well, guess the second guy was right cause the hit pretty much killed the box. It will turn on but can't tune anything except channel 0.


So I scheduled for a tech run on Sunday. Any suggestions I could do to fix it myself? Should I just take it up to the store tomorrow and swap out for a SA box? Am I going to lose my recordings? Will the guy on Sunday have no idea what he's doing and just give me a SA box?


----------



## Vchat20

I would keep calling till you get a CSR who actually knows what they are doing. Unfortunately the competence varies widely depending purely on your luck of takes your call.


Also, if you haven't done so yet: Reboot the box. I had the same issue initially with my 8300HDC saying I wasn't authorized and a simple reboot cured it.


----------



## hookbill

I disagree Vchat. I would first want to know what kind of software those moto boxes are running. If it isn't SARA or NAVIGATOR wouldn't the poster have to turn them in anyway once SDV starts? I think TW may call those moto boxes back eventually.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Not sure who is making the software but this comes up on the diagnostic screen. 74.54 4003


Which leads me to this http://http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Firmware_and_Software#Version_74.54-4003 


Does this mean this is i-Guide?


Looking further into the situation it looks like the error may be due to the fan.


----------



## hookbill

From the info provided I would think your software is not compatible for future TW usage. I can't say how they will do it but eventually TW will replace those Moto boxes.


----------



## RonOhio

2 Tuning Adapters at my front door when I got home from work.









I will set them up after watching the Cavs game.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/16192891
> 
> 
> 2 Tuning Adapters at my front door when I got home from work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will set them up after watching the Cavs game.



Were you on the early testing list? Mine came with a hand written card from Jeanie thanking me for participating in the testing.


Set up is a piece of cake.


----------



## Wagaroni

My tuning adapter arrived today, and I cannot get the thing to work with my Tivo HD. None of the new HD channels (USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, etc) work at all. When I have the tuning adapter on, it also prevents almost all of the non-SDV channels from working too. All channels in the 1-399 range that aren't listed on the enclosed sheet as "converting to SDV" do not work when the tuning adapter is on. If I turn the adapter off, they start working fine again.


The adapter must be doing at least something right. I used to not be able to watch G4TV (I think it already converted to SDV?), but with the adapter it now works.


Anyone else having problems?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wagaroni* /forum/post/16192998
> 
> 
> My tuning adapter arrived today, and I cannot get the thing to work with my Tivo HD. None of the new HD channels (USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, etc) work at all. When I have the tuning adapter on, it also prevents almost all of the non-SDV channels from working too. All channels in the 1-399 range that aren't listed on the enclosed sheet as "converting to SDV" do not work when the tuning adapter is on. If I turn the adapter off, they start working fine again.
> 
> 
> The adapter must be doing at least something right. I used to not be able to watch G4TV (I think it already converted to SDV?), but with the adapter it now works.
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems?



This has nothing to do with SDV. My tivo hd had the same issue. My S3 did not. TW has not hit your cards. Pull the cards write down the numbers call CS. And tell them to send a hit to your card or cards. That will restore all service and you will get your HD channels.


----------



## Wagaroni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16193228
> 
> 
> This has nothing to do with SDV. My tivo hd had the same issue. My S3 did not. TW has not hit your cards. Pull the cards write down the numbers call CS. And tell them to send a hit to your card or cards. That will restore all service and you will get your HD channels.



I just got off the phone with CS. They sent some hits to my cablecard, but it didn't fix anything. I'm still not getting the new HD channels. They wanted to send a tech out to take a look, but I'm gonna hold off on that until I see if anyone else is having issues.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16192932
> 
> 
> Were you on the early testing list? Mine came with a hand written card from Jeanie thanking me for participating in the testing.
> 
> 
> Set up is a piece of cake.



No, I was not on the early list and no hand written card


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wagaroni* /forum/post/16192998
> 
> 
> My tuning adapter arrived today, and I cannot get the thing to work with my Tivo HD. None of the new HD channels (USA HD, Sci-Fi HD, etc) work at all. When I have the tuning adapter on, it also prevents almost all of the non-SDV channels from working too. All channels in the 1-399 range that aren't listed on the enclosed sheet as "converting to SDV" do not work when the tuning adapter is on. If I turn the adapter off, they start working fine again.
> 
> 
> The adapter must be doing at least something right. I used to not be able to watch G4TV (I think it already converted to SDV?), but with the adapter it now works.
> 
> 
> Anyone else having problems?




I have the same problem as you describe. I also am getting STOHD which is SDV and I was not getting before. Missing all of my 100-399's that are not in Digital Basic. I am missing all the free digital cable channels. Who know how long it has been that way since I have them stricken from my list.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wagaroni* /forum/post/16193394
> 
> 
> I just got off the phone with CS. They sent some hits to my cablecard, but it didn't fix anything. I'm still not getting the new HD channels. They wanted to send a tech out to take a look, but I'm gonna hold off on that until I see if anyone else is having issues.



DID YOU PULL YOUR CABLE CARDS??? If you didn't that's why. Also it probably will take more then just 1 call. You gotta find a semi knowledgeable rep. Having a tech come out he will just blame your tivo.


----------



## ErieMarty

Here is the list of the channels Time Warner will be adding on May 26, 2009.


I got this information in a letter from Time Warner on Friday after I e-mailed Mr Fry about a HD question I had. The letter isn't from Mr Fry but from someone high up in the Local Office (won't mention name).


include April listing because I have the channel #'s


on April 29, 2009


Bravo 466

CNBC 486

TLC 450

Animal Planet 452

ABC Family 460

ESPN News 432

MLB Network 438



now for May 26, 2009 (first time I have seen these mentioned anywhere)


Golf 439

Nat GEO 453

Science 451

FX 478

Fox News 485

CNN 483



So Maybe..Maybe...Time Warner if finally catching up to other TW Systems around this area with their HD Program.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16192422
> 
> 
> The third guy I call tries to run me through resetting again and then tries to do a hit on it. Well, guess the second guy was right cause the hit pretty much killed the box. It will turn on but can't tune anything except channel 0.
> 
> .................



As a last resort you could try unplugging the box for an extended period (like 24 hours) then try a reboot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16194223
> 
> 
> Here is the list of the channels Time Warner will be adding on May 26, 2009.
> 
> 
> I got this information in a letter from Time Warner on Friday after I e-mailed Mr Fry about a HD question I had. The letter isn't from Mr Fry but from someone high up in the Local Office (won't mention name).
> 
> 
> include April listing because I have the channel #'s
> 
> 
> on April 29, 2009
> 
> 
> Bravo 466
> 
> CNBC 486
> 
> TLC 450
> 
> Animal Planet 452
> 
> ABC Family 460
> 
> ESPN News 432
> 
> MLB Network 438
> 
> 
> 
> now for May 26, 2009 (first time I have seen these mentioned anywhere)
> 
> 
> Golf 439
> 
> Nat GEO 453
> 
> Science 451
> 
> FX 478
> 
> Fox News 485
> 
> CNN 483
> 
> 
> 
> So Maybe..Maybe...Time Warner if finally catching up to other TW Systems around this area with their HD Program.



I see FX in there

















That's good news, this should all be with the deployment of SDV. Now since non test people are saying they are receiving their tuner adapters, this should mean SDV will be deployed on schedule.


Re: Steve Fry nobody ever gets a direct answer from Mr. Fry but when it hits his desk you will get a good response. I'm kind of curious as to why you emailed Mr. Fry on this? In the previous conversations we had we understood that the plan was 5 channels every month.


Still, nice to see FX may be ready in time for Rescue Me.


----------



## ErieMarty

my E-Mail to Mr Fry had to do with getting a HD channel added to the Erie Side of Time Warner system..(Fox Pittsburgh in HD)..we get STO/Fox Ohio..but not Fox Pittsburgh.. I hate the Steelers but do enjoy watching the Pirates and Pens...


I wasn't expecting an update on May HD channels..


more suprised I got a Letter in the Mail..instead of just a E-Mail Reply from someone else


----------



## hookbill

Marketing wise it is a smart idea for TW to start sending letters out like this letting them know they are getting fully on the HD bandwagon. I wonder if we all won't see these letters in a day or two?


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16194310
> 
> 
> Marketing wise it is a smart idea for TW to start sending letters out like this letting them know they are getting fully on the HD bandwagon. I wonder if we all won't see these letters in a day or two?



I don't think it was a marketing idea..but more of a responce to my e-mail since 75% of it had to do with my question about Fox Sports Pittsburgh in HD.


I assumed (I know )..since we get it in Standard Def in Erie..it would be simple to get it in HD. But letter said its 2 different agreements..just because you have it in SD..doesn't mean getting it in HD is automatic.


If these Monthly HD additions keep on coming. I won't be looking at switching to Dish/Direct..


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16194278
> 
> 
> No, it has nothing to do with TiVo. Those idiots at TW are not hitting the cards correctly........



I believe the OP CoastGuy2 has cable co provided Moto boxes, not a Tivo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16194330
> 
> 
> I don't think it was a marketing idea..but more of a responce to my e-mail since 75% of it had to do with my question about Fox Sports Pittsburgh in HD.
> 
> 
> I assumed (I know )..since we get it in Standard Def in Erie..it would be simple to get it in HD. But letter said its 2 different agreements..just because you have it in SD..doesn't mean getting it in HD is automatic.
> 
> 
> If these Monthly HD additions keep on coming. I won't be looking at switching to Dish/Direct..



Did it say Dear ErieMarty? Or Dear TW Customer?


Dear TW Customer, probably marketing but that may apply only to your area since it deals with Pittsburgh. Geeze just thinking about that place makes me want to puke. But I digress. Maybe they did actually go through the trouble of sending you a personal mail but that's not usually how they do it as you well know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16194334
> 
> 
> I believe the OP CoastGuy2 has cable co provided Moto boxes, not a Tivo.



Whoops, my bad I forgot about the Moto guy. At the end of the night we got locked up with a TiVo problem. Sorry. Deleted my post.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16194345
> 
> 
> Did it say Dear ErieMarty? Or Dear TW Customer?
> 
> 
> Dear TW Customer, probably marketing but that may apply only to your area since it deals with Pittsburgh. Geeze just thinking about that place makes me want to puke. But I digress. Maybe they did actually go through the trouble of sending you a personal mail but that's not usually how they do it as you well know.



And it started out Dear Mr (last name)


there goal is to add 5 to 7 HD stations each month.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16194415
> 
> 
> And it started out Dear Mr (last name)
> 
> 
> there goal is to add 5 to 7 HD stations each month.



Well, I'd say that was a personal letter. Just like the hand written card I got from Jeanie TW seems to want to be personable. A far cry from what it was like being an Adelphia customer.


In retrospect comparing Adelphia to TW, TW is rocking. Adelphia had terrible customer relations, TW is trying to have good relations. But if TW really wants good relations they have got to do something about their CSR's on the phone. They got to teach them to listen and not assume things. I've gone through detailed information about issues only to have them come back with "basically you're saying your HD is not working." No, that's not what I said.


It's real hard for me to accept any cable company, and I admit I'm probably unfair about TW. But then again look at nickdawgs issue and how he's getting jacked around on that. After guy #2 I'd be writing a Dear Mr. Fry letter.


----------



## RonOhio

Still a no go for me. I called customer service 4 times until I found someone willing to even resend the signal to my cablecards and part of that procedure was to pull the cable card. Resending the signal didn't fix. This is my summary.

Standard Digital Tier (100-399):


When the tuning adapter is connected I loose access to all of the standard digital cable channel in the 100-399 range (101, 103, 112,113,113,130,131,132,133,135....). I do get all the channels in the $5.00 Digital Basic Tier (102,104,105,107,134,136, ....)


If I unplug the USB cable from the TA. I get ALL the channels I subscribe to in the Standard Digital Tier.

High-Definition (400-499):


When the tuning adapter is connected I get all the channels except the new SDV channels (443 USAHD, 449 DSCHD, 456 DISNHD, 469 PLDHD, 476 SCIFIHD) that were recently added. I now get STOHD which didn't come in before.


Without the tuning adapter I don't get the new channels (443 USAHD, 449 DSCHD, 456 DISNHD, 469 PLDHD, 476 SCIFIHD) or STOHD.

Premium Channels:


I get all Showtime channels either way.


I called the hotline number and left a message and sent an email to TA email address. Anytime I mention cablecard or tuning adapter to a CSR, I am instantly put on hold for 2 minutes so I have given up on that. I think the hotline people may be better trained to help.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/16194801
> 
> 
> Still a no go for me. I called customer service 4 times until I found someone willing to even resend the signal to my cablecards and part of that procedure was to pull the cable card. Resending the signal didn't fix. This is my summary.
> 
> Standard Digital Tier (100-399):
> 
> 
> When the tuning adapter is connected I loose access to all of the standard digital cable channel in the 100-399 range (101, 103, 112,113,113,130,131,132,133,135....). I do get all the channels in the $5.00 Digital Basic Tier (102,104,105,107,134,136, ....)
> 
> 
> If I unplug the USB cable from the TA. I get ALL the channels I subscribe to in the Standard Digital Tier.
> 
> High-Definition (400-499):
> 
> 
> When the tuning adapter is connected I get all the channels except the new SDV channels (443 USAHD, 449 DSCHD, 456 DISNHD, 469 PLDHD, 476 SCIFIHD) that were recently added. I now get STOHD which didn't come in before.
> 
> 
> Without the tuning adapter I don't get the new channels (443 USAHD, 449 DSCHD, 456 DISNHD, 469 PLDHD, 476 SCIFIHD) or STOHD.
> 
> Premium Channels:
> 
> 
> I get all Showtime channels either way.
> 
> 
> I called the hotline number and left a message and sent an email to TA email address. Anytime I mention cablecard or tuning adapter to a CSR, I am instantly put on hold for 2 minutes so I have given up on that. I think the hotline people may be better trained to help.



Since you don't get STOHD it's indicating to me that the tuner adapter is not working because STOHD is a SDV channel, so you must be in native TW area.


Pretty basic but is the green light on? I didn't realize it but there is a switch on the front that turns power on and off.


Next, can you go to your Cable Card and other screen and look at the diagnostic screen for your Tuner Adapter? If not, maybe a bad one?


Finally, if you are able to do all those things I would contact [email protected] . They are the one's handling the adapters.


I hope you can get some help from the hotline. Double check everything and get back to us. You are the only one I know who has the adapter and appears to already have SDV.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16174964
> 
> 
> Seinfeld is now in HD on WJW. I don't know how long this has been going on but I just noticed it today. Guess that makes WJW the third channel with HD syndication.



What's up with Seinfeld in HD? I tuned in to see it and the only thing that was in HD was the opening monologue. After the commercials it was back to 4x3 SD upconvert









It's probably the late night shift at WJW master control to blame. I checked two episodes (granted I only watch the monologue than I go to ch 5 news for awhile and tune back to 8 during 5's commercials). Both times since the original post I saw the 4X3 upconvert instead of 16 X 9 HD.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16178028
> 
> 
> The DVD recorders didn't really catch on cuz it's just one step above VHS with many of the VHS limitations. The only advantage a DVD recorder has over a DVR is portability. I remember back in my VHS days I'd lose half of my scheduled recordings cuz someone removed the tape or the tape would run out. This is where "portability" can work against you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those free trial programs your computer came loaded with are indeed a PITA. But it is those free programs that subsidized your purchase, lowering your out of pocket cost. They can all be disabled or uninstalled if you wish.
> 
> 
> If you want a real eye opener, run a good third party security scan program (not one preinstalled) like Iobits Advanced System Care (free) http://iobit.com/ and I'll bet it finds around 30,000 security flaws on that brand new computer!



VCR+ also worked against me as it would use OTA ch 65 as some sort of 'conversion' for ota 43... (never figured that out & always had to manually change channel numbers within the programs... this was making things easier?? LOL) nevertheless, if it's not broke don't fix it, I still have many of good VHS tapes for the little time shifting I do, & I can't warrant any monthly fees for this confusion!.










TY for the PC link, I'll have to go up to my public library to download this. The internet may be great, but when it invades my privacy, & creates a monthly blackmail, it's time for it to leave.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *InMedina* /forum/post/16183449
> 
> 
> Might be old news, but I noticed we just picked up a new FREE OTA.
> 
> 43.2, something called "This" network.
> 
> All movies ala turner with commercials.
> 
> Nice!
> 
> rumor about Sci-Fi channel in Cleveland OTA still around?



Free??? OTA?? those are bad words around here!










It makes another nice choice & one that I can actually pick up here too.







For as large of a market Cleveland is (or Cleveland/Akron as they ignore us northeast viewing area), they really don't utilize the subchannels to their potential.


I kinda miss the Tube, it was nice background noise. Retro would be nice to have too, but don't hold your breath.


As for any future plans, that would be a quetion for trip.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16195071
> 
> 
> TY for the PC link, I'll have to go up to my public library to download this. The internet may be great, but when it invades my privacy, & creates a monthly blackmail, it's time for it to leave.



























I've been on the internet since 1997. I have never been blackmailed. You probably won't see this post until the next time you go to the library, and I know this is off topic but I just have to hear the explanation for this one.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Check this out:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=155254 

So in the near future cable subs can have the same technology found in the latest generation Dish Network DVR's (post Tivo case/non infringing technology) plus the feature of Slingbox.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16194853
> 
> 
> Since you don't get STOHD it's indicating to me that the tuner adapter is not working because STOHD is a SDV channel, so you must be in native TW area.
> 
> 
> Pretty basic but is the green light on? I didn't realize it but there is a switch on the front that turns power on and off.



I do get STOHD with TA, its the 5 new HD channels I don't get.


The TA appears to be working:
It is a solid green light after it is initialized.
If unplug the usb it will flash twice every 20 seconds
If I unplug the power and plug back in it will glash for a while and then turn solid green.
TiVo reckognizes whenever I diconnect the TA and lets me know about it.


I don't think the TA is authorized to see the channels?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16195127
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been on the internet since 1997. I have never been blackmailed. You probably won't see this post until the next time you go to the library, and I know this is off topic but I just have to hear the explanation for this one.



Guess again,







a year or so back, my brother called me to tell me his laptop would not function unless he entered a Credit Card number & pressed submit, this would provide him with a link that would uninstall whatever they placed on his PC... now his first response was smashing the laptop, yet Bill Gates made sure Dell did not provide him with XP installation disks, so a reformat was out of the question.


The laptop is running again but not as good as new, a bit slow, he sent it over to me after getting an upgraded laptop. This is one of the many reasons I'm very reluctant to put my new machine on the internet, let alone when I turn it on there is scare-ware telling me my new PC is vulnerable to attack from the cyber geeks.







...but of course all will be well if I submit a credit card number.










Sorry we are getting off topic, nevertheless it's similar technology, speaking of which did anyone catch the episode of South Park where Chef got the new widescreen TV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/16195172
> 
> 
> I do get STOHD with TA, its the 5 new HD channels I don't get.
> 
> 
> The TA appears to be working:
> It is a solid green light after it is initialized.
> If unplug the usb it will flash twice every 20 seconds
> If I unplug the power and plug back in it will glash for a while and then turn solid green.
> TiVo reckognizes whenever I diconnect the TA and lets me know about it.
> 
> 
> I don't think the TA is authorized to see the channels?



I'm still pretty sure you didn't get the proper hit to your cards. You really need to have headend get involved, and the only way that probably will happen is via truck. Or you could play the Steve Fry Card. If I were you that's what I would do.


Were you able to get to the diagnostic screen for the tuner adapter? Tivo/Settings/CableCard and other Devices.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16195192
> 
> 
> Guess again,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a year or so back, my brother called me to tell me his laptop would not function unless he entered a Credit Card number & pressed submit, this would provide him with a link that would uninstall whatever they placed on his PC... now his first response was smashing the laptop, yet Bill Gates made sure Dell did not provide him with XP installation disks, so a reformat was out of the question.
> 
> 
> The laptop is running again but not as good as new, a bit slow, he sent it over to me after an upgrade. This the one of the reasons I'm very reluctant to put my new machine on the internet, let alone when I turn it on there is scare-ware telling me my new PC is vulnerable to attack from the cyber geeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but of course all will be well if I submit a credit card number.



You, my friend need to go to the Mac side of the world.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Well, I've determined the 0 on my box means either two things. That either the fan is shot, or that it just needs to be reset at the head end. So, I might fuss with it some more and wait for the guy tomorrow.


Should I ask them to make sure to bring out a new box. Is there an older one I should try to request or is the newst one the best I can do? Think I can plug the old box into my computer and try to get the stuff off the hard drive at this time.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16194997
> 
> 
> What's up with Seinfeld in HD?



I wonder what aspect ratio the show was originally filmed? Caught Seinfeld one night in 16:9 but it didn't seem to have the detail I was expecting...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/16195424
> 
> 
> I wonder what aspect ratio the show was originally filmed? Caught Seinfeld one night in 16:9 but it didn't seem to have the detail I was expecting...



nickdawg will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he said that film is perfect for HD. That's how we see things in HD like Hogans Heroes and movies. I don't believe there is an aspect ratio for the film. I don't know how Seinfeld was made, since they were showing it in HD I would think film.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

C'mon SPEED HD!


----------



## CoasterGuy2

I believe seinfeld was shot on video in 4:3, using great for it's time cameras. Not quite HD. What they're doing I believe, is taking that 4:3 source, zooming and maybe stretching just a bit, so that it is now 16:9 and then probably upscaling. I can't prove the stretching, but I'm positive it is zoomed.


All the DVDs are 4:3 and all the seasons look excellent, especially the later seasons.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16195192
> 
> 
> Guess again,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a year or so back, my brother called me to tell me his laptop would not function unless he entered a Credit Card number & pressed submit, this would provide him with a link that would uninstall whatever they placed on his PC... now his first response was smashing the laptop, yet Bill Gates made sure Dell did not provide him with XP installation disks, so a reformat was out of the question.
> 
> 
> The laptop is running again but not as good as new, a bit slow, he sent it over to me after getting an upgraded laptop. This is one of the many reasons I'm very reluctant to put my new machine on the internet, let alone when I turn it on there is scare-ware telling me my new PC is vulnerable to attack from the cyber geeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...but of course all will be well if I submit a credit card number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry we are getting off topic, nevertheless it's similar technology, speaking of which did anyone catch the episode of South Park where Chef got the new widescreen TV?



You can justify your fears all you want, but writing checks, using your credit card in person, and using the USPS puts you MUCH more at risk than any real threats online in regards to credit card / check fraud, misuse or ID theft. One of many articles discussing this very issue:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3530302.shtml 


Obviously, common sense and taking basic safety precautions go without saying. I run two computers, online, 24/7 with a number of other non-computer devices on the same home network 24/7. One of these computers has been online 24/7 for almost a decade. 90% of my personal and company bills paid online, 70% of my personal and business purchases online (lower prices, more selection, no sales tax). Never a problem, not one.


I've been the victim of fraudulent credit card charges three times, all three were not online transactions.


What you pay in postage every month to pay your bills could well rent that TWC box (see, I am on topic







) you moan about "not wanting to pay for". But using online bill pay to save on postage and FAR less time consuming to use compared to check writing requires conducting business online.










Statistically, your way is less secure and costs more in time and money compared to common sense online transactions.


People still fall for the Nigerian lottery scams and good old fashioned telemarketing calls to ones home. But, hey, if you feel more secure letting the waiter walk off with your credit card for five minutes, or you think all those credit card receipts and checks you have floating around out there are properly disposed of, well....sleep easy.







But I assure you, you are living a false sense of security while missing out on the tremendous time and money saving services offered online.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/16195943
> 
> 
> C'mon SPEED HD!


*+ ONE!*


......but on WOW Cable.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/16195943
> 
> 
> C'mon SPEED HD!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16196100
> 
> *+ ONE!*
> 
> 
> ......but on WOW Cable.



Looks like WOW will be offering Speed HD in Evansville this month, so maybe Cleveland will get it soon.

http://www1.wowway.com/channelinfoandupdates/


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/16196461
> 
> 
> Looks like WOW will be offering Speed HD in Evansville this month, so maybe Cleveland will get it soon.
> 
> http://www1.wowway.com/channelinfoandupdates/



Awsome aj, thanks










I feel like we are falling behind with our TWC brethren here in HD ch additions, and this CANNOT CONTINUE!!!


All I've seen from WOW in the last few weeks is them touting their "new and improved email system.....coming soon" crapola.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16196538
> 
> 
> Awsome aj, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does WOW publish any "up and coming" ch additions anywhere? I feel like we are falling behind with our TWC brethren here in HD ch additions, and this CANNOT CONTINUE!!!
> 
> 
> All I've seen from WOW in the last few weeks is them touting their "new and improved email system.....coming soon" crapola.



I did a google on WOW and SDV and there are no indications that WOW is even thinking about it. However if they are going to remain competitive they will have to.


I saw a few discussions from people hoping for SDV from WOW but that's about it.


With the apparent 10 channels that are due to arrive in the next two months that ought to put us in front of you at that point. Still like I always say quality before quantity. Just because it has HD behind it doesn't mean they are offering a lot of HD programming.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16196566
> 
> 
> I did a google on WOW and SDV and there are no indications that WOW is even thinking about it. However if they are going to remain competitive they will have to.
> 
> 
> I saw a few discussions from people hoping for SDV from WOW but that's about it.
> 
> 
> With the apparent 10 channels that are due to arrive in the next two months that ought to put us in front of you at that point. Still like I always say quality before quantity. Just because it has HD behind it doesn't mean they are offering a lot of HD programming.



Yeah, WOW needs SDV or we're going to hit the bandwidth brick wall.


----------



## nickdawg

Ummm Hookbill, Rescue Me starts next week, so *MAY 29, 2009* will not be "just in time" for Rescue Me!







. Even when TWC tries to do something good they still stink up the place. What, they weren't able to add ONE channel a month!!







This company still sucks more than an industrial Hoover. At least F/x is coming at the end of May, along with the f*** d*** GOLF CHANNEL!





















Yay!! Old men can snooze in front of Golf in HD. Thanks, Steve-O!!


----------



## nickdawg

Today the second person came, the wiring person. Instead of an actual TWC person in a TWC van, it was a subcontractor, which I guess they use for installations. He pulled a new wire to the TV with the 8300HD (the cable to that one was older) as well as the line between the ground block and the splitter. The new line coming in works fine, the new line to the box works fine, but the picture breaks up. On the same channels. And once again, the incoming signal is fine. He even went up the pole, signal is fine out there. I mentioned interference(nothing about channel 33, since I checked an analog TV last night, 33 is fine, plus I can't get 33 OTA in Akron either). The guy said it might be a problem with the tap, so a call was put in to 'distribution' who will be out to look at that within 72 hours. He said there might be a problem with signals going to and from the tap, since there are 4 houses connected to the one tap.


(sigh)


That's the problem with TWC, everyone seems to have the "that's not my job" attitude. It's taking several days and people to do one job. Ridiculous. Plus, I could tell the wiring guy didn't know as much about the actual equipment. He didn't look at the diagnostic screen once on either box. But when the 8300HD rebooted, without the program guide and digital channels, he was quick to suggest replacing the box(Hook was right on that one ). Of course I said no and immediately went to the 4250HDC box, which had the exact same problems. That's when the problem shifted to outside and the tap. He even said he 'wanted' to replace my box, which is 50% full of recordings and has many series recordings set up!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16196878
> 
> 
> Today the second person came, the wiring person. Instead of an actual TWC person in a TWC van, it was a subcontractor, which I guess they use for installations. He pulled a new wire to the TV with the 8300HD (the cable to that one was older) as well as the line between the ground block and the splitter. The new line coming in works fine, the new line to the box works fine, but the picture breaks up. On the same channels. And once again, the incoming signal is fine. He even went up the pole, signal is fine out there. I mentioned interference(nothing about channel 33, since I checked an analog TV last night, 33 is fine, plus I can't get 33 OTA in Akron either). The guy said it might be a problem with the tap, so a call was put in to 'distribution' who will be out to look at that within 72 hours. He said there might be a problem with signals going to and from the tap, since there are 4 houses connected to the one tap.
> 
> 
> (sigh)
> 
> 
> That's the problem with TWC, everyone seems to have the "that's not my job" attitude. It's taking several days and people to do one job. Ridiculous. Plus, I could tell the wiring guy didn't know as much about the actual equipment. He didn't look at the diagnostic screen once on either box. But when the 8300HD rebooted, without the program guide and digital channels, he was quick to suggest replacing the box(Hook was right on that one ). Of course I said no and immediately went to the 4250HDC box, which had the exact same problems. That's when the problem shifted to outside and the tap. He even said he 'wanted' to replace my box, which is 50% full of recordings and has many series recordings set up!




Dear Mr. Fry, etc.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16195461
> 
> 
> nickdawg will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he said that film is perfect for HD. That's how we see things in HD like Hogans Heroes and movies. I don't believe there is an aspect ratio for the film. I don't know how Seinfeld was made, since they were showing it in HD I would think film.



Yes. If it's on film, it has a higher resolution than HDTV. Depending on how it was filmed then, it could be shown in widescreen, which is what Seinfeld did. Seinfeld was cropped for 4:3 when it was shown in its original run. What they did is open the sides of the picture, so we're seeing more on the left and the right. Also, a little bit has been cropped of the top and the bottom. Normally I am against cropping, but what Seinfeld did is acceptable since we're not just losing something on top/bottom(as in Discovery HD's crop-o-vision) but we're also GAINING something on the left and right.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16196894
> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Fry, etc.



Oh no, I hope not. I'm still waiting on that next person "coming in the next 72 hours" to fix the tap at the pole. If it doesn't work from there, then I think it will be time to play the "Fry Card".


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16196028
> 
> 
> I believe seinfeld was shot on video in 4:3, using great for it's time cameras. Not quite HD. What they're doing I believe, is taking that 4:3 source, zooming and maybe stretching just a bit, so that it is now 16:9 and then probably upscaling. I can't prove the stretching, but I'm positive it is zoomed.
> 
> 
> All the DVDs are 4:3 and all the seasons look excellent, especially the later seasons.



Nope. Seinfeld was shot on film, 35mm, and cropped to 4:3 for its original run. It's definitely not stretched, but there is a bit of cropping. See the post above with the "Merv Griffin Show" pictures, you can see that a little of the top and bottom are removed on the HD version, but you can also see more on the sides. It's just trading what's on the top and bottom for what's on the left and right.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16197142
> 
> 
> Oh no, I hope not. I'm still waiting on that next person "coming in the next 72 hours" to fix the tap at the pole. If it doesn't work from there, then I think it will be time to play the "Fry Card".



Going by the 3 strikes your out rule. OK.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16197275
> 
> 
> Going by the 3 strikes your out rule. OK.



Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. 3rd time is a charm!


OT: I am a little less scared of the 8300HDC now and OCAP in general now that *ODN 3* finally came. I'm trying to run the 4250HDC in my main TV(with the new line from the splitter) to see how it works. It used to take over 5 minutes to boot. The SA/OCAP screen took forever. Today, it booted faster than the 8300HD did yesterday. Also, it worked right away after the boot. The 8300HD was fxcked up and only analog channels worked







. The new ODN works and looks just as good as MDN on the 8300HD. I'm impressed that TWC finally 'fixed' Navigator.


----------



## CoasterGuy2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16197163
> 
> 
> Nope. Seinfeld was shot on film, 35mm, and cropped to 4:3 for its original run. It's definitely not stretched, but there is a bit of cropping. See the post above with the "Merv Griffin Show" pictures, you can see that a little of the top and bottom are removed on the HD version, but you can also see more on the sides. It's just trading what's on the top and bottom for what's on the left and right.



Then I don't get why the DVDs were presented in 4:3. Just to keep them as they were originally shown?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16197404
> 
> 
> Then I don't get why the DVDs were presented in 4:3. Just to keep them as they were originally shown?



Are they regular DVDs(not HD or BR)? If they're SD DVDs, they probably just used the SD versions that have been around for years in syndication. I believe the HD transfer just happened in 2008, and the HD Seinfelds premiered on TBS last fall. I assume a Blu Ray release might happen in the future. In that case they might be 16:9 HD, the original 4:3 cropped in HD or some combination of both.


Also, Seinfeld is now HD on WJW, along with "The Morning Show". Makes WJW #3 in Cleveland with HD recording/syndication. (applause)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16196090
> 
> 
> You can justify your fears all you want, but writing checks, using your credit card in person, and using the USPS puts you MUCH more at risk than any real threats online in regards to credit card / check fraud, misuse or ID theft. One of many articles discussing this very issue:
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3530302.shtml
> 
> 
> Obviously, common sense and taking basic safety precautions go without saying. I run two computers, online, 24/7 with a number of other non-computer devices on the same home network 24/7. One of these computers has been online 24/7 for almost a decade. 90% of my personal and company bills paid online, 70% of my personal and business purchases online (lower prices, more selection, no sales tax). Never a problem, not one.
> 
> 
> I've been the victim of fraudulent credit card charges three times, all three were not online transactions.
> 
> 
> What you pay in postage every month to pay your bills could well rent that TWC box (see, I am on topic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) you moan about "not wanting to pay for". But using online bill pay to save on postage and FAR less time consuming to use compared to check writing requires conducting business online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statistically, your way is less secure and costs more in time and money compared to common sense online transactions.
> 
> 
> People still fall for the Nigerian lottery scams and good old fashioned telemarketing calls to ones home. But, hey, if you feel more secure letting the waiter walk off with your credit card for five minutes, or you think all those credit card receipts and checks you have floating around out there are properly disposed of, well....sleep easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I assure you, you are living a false sense of security while missing out on the tremendous time and money saving services offered online.



Me living in a false sence of security?? Well, obviously you don't know me all that well!










The seneraio you bring up is pure wrecklessness, for the wage I currently live on now, I find my time isn't all that 'valuable' anymore.... $40 a month for cable is out of the question at this point too (staying on topic). I'm taking no one here has felt the downslide of the economy in the past 10 years either? Yes I foreseen a lot of this (but not all) approaching. I like technology too, yet I still like to 'simplify' life, only at times others won't let me, & make it inconvienient for me ... & even if that means using a rooftop antenna!










True, I'm tired of the phonecalls, junk mail ect, but we must honor those who went off to college & aquired a marketing degree, & being paid well using it.










Eating out?? that became a luxury too!










I'll check out the article, & see how this applies to me...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16196878
> 
> 
> Today the second person came, the wiring person. Instead of an actual TWC person in a TWC van, it was a subcontractor, which I guess they use for installations. He pulled a new wire to the TV with the 8300HD (the cable to that one was older) as well as the line between the ground block and the splitter. The new line coming in works fine, the new line to the box works fine, but the picture breaks up. On the same channels. And once again, the incoming signal is fine. He even went up the pole, signal is fine out there. I mentioned interference(nothing about channel 33, since I checked an analog TV last night, 33 is fine, plus I can't get 33 OTA in Akron either). The guy said it might be a problem with the tap, so a call was put in to 'distribution' who will be out to look at that within 72 hours. He said there might be a problem with signals going to and from the tap, since there are 4 houses connected to the one tap.
> 
> 
> (sigh)



Nickdawg, is there any particular event that triggers the breakup, such as fast lateral motion?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16198097
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, is there any particular event that triggers the breakup, such as fast lateral motion?



Nickdawg showed a video of it. It was constant.


----------



## Vchat20

Well this is some retardunkulous mess. I decided to give my box a manual reboot just now to see how well the boot times have improved. Seems when Navigator got updated the other day, all of it wasn't actually updated. When it rebooted, it went through the process of upgrading the base OCAP firmware (the front panel counts down in hex characters).


Now I'm without the hardware diag screen. No signal levels, no cablecard info, nothing. Just the (fairly) usesless Navigator diag. Seems the volume up and select buttons on the front of the box trigger the mail icon but I can't get any farther. Tried all of the buttons on the box and a handful of buttons on the remote to no avail.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198147
> 
> 
> Well this is some retardunkulous mess. I decided to give my box a manual reboot just now to see how well the boot times have improved. Seems when Navigator got updated the other day, all of it wasn't actually updated. When it rebooted, it went through the process of upgrading the base OCAP firmware (the front panel counts down in hex characters).
> 
> 
> Now I'm without the hardware diag screen. No signal levels, no cablecard info, nothing. Just the (fairly) usesless Navigator diag. Seems the volume up and select buttons on the front of the box trigger the mail icon but I can't get any farther. Tried all of the buttons on the box and a handful of buttons on the remote to no avail.



ROFLOL and please don't take this personally. Another SA 8300HDC story.










Did you call customer servce? You will need the serial number from the box. That's what those idiots ask me for when

I call even though I tell them I have Tivo. Maybe they can send you a hit.


----------



## Vchat20

Pft. Fat chance. The diagnostics are one of those things they have a major ***** fit over if the customers get access to it. Like to consider it their own well guarded secret even though it's hardly the case.


I'll wait a few days though and see if maybe someone else finds a way in again. If not I may decide on calling in if I'm in the right mood to deal with the crap.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198147
> 
> 
> Well this is some retardunkulous mess. I decided to give my box a manual reboot just now to see how well the boot times have improved. Seems when Navigator got updated the other day, all of it wasn't actually updated. When it rebooted, it went through the process of upgrading the base OCAP firmware (the front panel counts down in hex characters).
> 
> 
> Now I'm without the hardware diag screen. No signal levels, no cablecard info, nothing. Just the (fairly) usesless Navigator diag. Seems the volume up and select buttons on the front of the box trigger the mail icon but I can't get any farther. Tried all of the buttons on the box and a handful of buttons on the remote to no avail.



Sorry dude. That's normal operation for ODN3. My box can no longer get the AXIOM diagnostics screen. And this is confirmed among other Navigator users as well.


I don't know what your box did, but mine had to be rebooted because it looked like it was bricked after the first download/reboot.


If your box updates but doesn't do the hex countdown, then it must not be updated correctly, because even the MDN and Passport boxes used to do that too.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198272
> 
> 
> Pft. Fat chance. The diagnostics are one of those things they have a major ***** fit over if the customers get access to it. Like to consider it their own well guarded secret even though it's hardly the case.
> 
> 
> I'll wait a few days though and see if maybe someone else finds a way in again. If not I may decide on calling in if I'm in the right mood to deal with the crap.



I know. The main thing holding back my progress at fixing my problem is the diagnostic screen. Can I tell TWC that I flipped through the channels and recorded the tuning frequencies? Am I even supposed to know about SDV frequencies and diagnostics screens?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16198097
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, is there any particular event that triggers the breakup, such as fast lateral motion?



No. It happens immediately when I change to the channel. Sometimes the picture does not even come on at all.


Here, I'll re-post the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zxdc34t5-4


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198402
> 
> 
> I know. The main thing holding back my progress at fixing my problem is the diagnostic screen. Can I tell TWC that I flipped through the channels and recorded the tuning frequencies? Am I even supposed to know about SDV frequencies and diagnostics screens?



I don't understand what the big deal is with accessing the diagnostic screen. In my talks with headend I looked at the diagnostic screen frequently.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16198442
> 
> 
> I don't understand what the big deal is with accessing the diagnostic screen. In my talks with headend I looked at the diagnostic screen frequently.



But you have a Tivo. It's your equipment and I'm sure the instruction manual has some instructions on how to access all the menus. We don't even get instruction manuals from TWC. None of the techs that have come over ever told me how to get into the diagnostic screen. None of the phone CSRs have ever said anything about accessing the diagnostic screen. It's like a secret. In fact, I've read in other topics about CSRs getting pissy with customers who know about their 'secret menu'. They don't like it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198468
> 
> 
> But you have a Tivo. It's your equipment and I'm sure the instruction manual has some instructions on how to access all the menus. We don't even get instruction manuals from TWC. None of the techs that have come over ever told me how to get into the diagnostic screen. None of the phone CSRs have ever said anything about accessing the diagnostic screen. It's like a secret. In fact, I've read in other topics about CSRs getting pissy with customers who know about their 'secret menu'. They don't like it.



The only reason they get p.o.d is the fact that they don't understand it themselves.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16198510
> 
> 
> The only reason they get p.o.d is the fact that they don't understand it themselves.



I think so. The subcontractor who came yesterday seemed clueless about it. All he did was the wiring, which was his job. TWC really needs to train ALL their people better. I couldn't believe he didn't check the box, but he did use his computer thingy to check the signal coming in, which was OK. Now I have to wait on the outside people to check the tap, maybe something is wrong there.


But one thing their subcontractor did like is taking my box. He even said that was what he wanted to do, replace the box. Of course I said NO. That's their damn solution to everything: replace the box.


----------



## shooter21198

speaking of Diagnostics there is a channel in the 1000s for Diagnostics look for it in your favorite channels


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198389
> 
> 
> Sorry dude. That's normal operation for ODN3. My box can no longer get the AXIOM diagnostics screen. And this is confirmed among other Navigator users as well.



Actually, now that I have been seeing what's been going on, these boxes basically come in two or three parts: The 'User Application' in this case being Navigator/ODN. The OCAP firmware that runs and interacts directly with the hardware in the box, and possibly a separate Cablecard firmware (though it's probably combined with the OCAP system).


In my particular case when they updated Navigator on the 2nd, I just got the new Navigator software pushed to the box but the OCAP firmware was left alone. This was how I was able to continue accessing the hardware diagnostics even with Navigator being updated to v3. But when I rebooted this evening it went through the procedure of updating the OCAP firmware and that is when I lost the hardware diagnostics. The Navigator software version did not change at this time. So I don't think it's directly linked to Navigator/ODN, but more related to an OCAP update they decided to push in addition to the updated Navigator version.


But like I said though: Seems like the trigger for the mail icon went from the vol up and vol down buttons to the volume up and select buttons. Unless the procedure has completely changed, it's down to finding what the final trigger button is to get the screen up.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198402
> 
> 
> I know. The main thing holding back my progress at fixing my problem is the diagnostic screen. Can I tell TWC that I flipped through the channels and recorded the tuning frequencies? Am I even supposed to know about SDV frequencies and diagnostics screens?



Actually, interesting you say that. On the Navigator diagnostic screens I noticed under one of the SDV menus at the very bottom it had an entry for the SDV Carousel frequencies. In my case I say it had listed: '585:256,573:256' which is of course the frequency locations and 256 for 256QAM modulation. But all that says though is what freuqneices they have opened up for SDV (May just be channels I have actually tuned in or may be the full swath of SDV channels, dunno for sure.), but not exactly what channels in the guide map to what location.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16198634
> 
> 
> speaking of Diagnostics there is a channel in the 1000s for Diagnostics look for it in your favorite channels



The closest thing I have is the 'Employee On Demand' chanenl on 1608 which I'm not 'subscribed' to.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198651
> 
> 
> Actually, now that I have been seeing what's been going on, these boxes basically come in two or three parts: The 'User Application' in this case being Navigator/ODN. The OCAP firmware that runs and interacts directly with the hardware in the box, and possibly a separate Cablecard firmware (though it's probably combined with the OCAP system).
> 
> 
> In my particular case when they updated Navigator on the 2nd, I just got the new Navigator software pushed to the box but the OCAP firmware was left alone. This was how I was able to continue accessing the hardware diagnostics even with Navigator being updated to v3. But when I rebooted this evening it went through the procedure of updating the OCAP firmware and that is when I lost the hardware diagnostics. The Navigator software version did not change at this time. So I don't think it's directly linked to Navigator/ODN, but more related to an OCAP update they decided to push in addition to the updated Navigator version.
> 
> 
> But like I said though: Seems like the trigger for the mail icon went from the vol up and vol down buttons to the volume up and select buttons. Unless the procedure has completely changed, it's down to finding what the final trigger button is to get the screen up.



You now have to hold down VOL+ and INFO. A menu appears but it is a different looking one than on the previous version. Haven't had a chance to find out all the features of it, but at least we know how to access the AXIOM menu now. And yes, there are a few parts to the firmware. One part is the ODN software, with the diagnostics screen accessed by the remote. The other part is the manufacturer's software. On the SA boxes, that's the AXIOM diagnostic screen(from the AXIOM DVR/OCAP Middleware).


I guess the button sequence changed with the software update. Vol+ INFO.




> Quote:
> Actually, interesting you say that. On the Navigator diagnostic screens I noticed under one of the SDV menus at the very bottom it had an entry for the SDV Carousel frequencies. In my case I say it had listed: '585:256,573:256' which is of course the frequency locations and 256 for 256QAM modulation. But all that says though is what freuqneices they have opened up for SDV (May just be channels I have actually tuned in or may be the full swath of SDV channels, dunno for sure.), but not exactly what channels in the guide map to what location.



I noticed that the ODN diagnostics are entirely different than the MDN diagnostics. Under the SDV screen, it lists the "last SDV frequency". When I was watching Duscovery HD (with the problems) the frequency was 585. Then I went to USA HD (it worked fine) and the frequency was 573.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16198634
> 
> 
> speaking of Diagnostics there is a channel in the 1000s for Diagnostics look for it in your favorite channels





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198706
> 
> 
> The closest thing I have is the 'Employee On Demand' chanenl on 1608 which I'm not 'subscribed' to.



Channel 1611. It's left over from the Passport days, when that channel displayed Passport's far superior diagnostic screens. On the MDN box, I've just had a blank screen. On the ODN box, I've never tried it.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198768
> 
> 
> You now have to hold down VOL+ and INFO. A menu appears but it is a different looking one than on the previous version. Haven't had a chance to find out all the features of it, but at least we know how to access the AXIOM menu now. And yes, there are a few parts to the firmware. One part is the ODN software, with the diagnostics screen accessed by the remote. The other part is the manufacturer's software. On the SA boxes, that's the AXIOM diagnostic screen(from the AXIOM DVR/OCAP Middleware).
> 
> 
> I guess the button sequence changed with the software update. Vol+ INFO.



Hmm. Will have to check it on this end.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198768
> 
> 
> I noticed that the ODN diagnostics are entirely different than the MDN diagnostics. Under the SDV screen, it lists the "last SDV frequency". When I was watching Duscovery HD (with the problems) the frequency was 585. Then I went to USA HD (it worked fine) and the frequency was 573.



Actually, the reason for this is very clear and goes with everything that has been stated up to this point: MDN is built like Passport and SARA and made to run directly on the hardware and not some middleman junk like OCAP. So the Navigator software on the MDN equipment is capable of displaying more hardware related diagnostics on the remote control triggered diagnostic screen compared to ODN which has to delegate the interaction with the hardware down to the OCAP firmware.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198790
> 
> 
> Channel 1611. It's left over from the Passport days, when that channel displayed Passport's far superior diagnostic screens. On the MDN box, I've just had a blank screen. On the ODN box, I've never tried it.



Ah. Yeah, I remember that beauty. I especially LOVED the ability to manually tune to my choice of frequencies, QAM or Analog, and right down to specific PIDs in a QAM. I remember I used this constantly to watch a WGN affiliate which wasn't in the guide but hidden in the system. LOVED it dearly.


And yeah, 1611 is dead here on the ODN equipment. The nearest tune just sends me to PBS ch2. Nearest tune off I just get the blinking ???.


----------



## Vchat20

Also nickdawg, I did the button combo you mentioned and if you notice the 'Mfr. Diags...' entry on the left side: Go there and hit the Select button like it says and you'll get the classic diag screen back.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198795
> 
> 
> Hmm. Will have to check it on this end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the reason for this is very clear and goes with everything that has been stated up to this point: MDN is built like Passport and SARA and made to run directly on the hardware and not some middleman junk like OCAP. So the Navigator software on the MDN equipment is capable of displaying more hardware related diagnostics on the remote control triggered diagnostic screen compared to ODN which has to delegate the interaction with the hardware down to the OCAP firmware.



I took a better look at the Vol + /INFO menu and it offers the following:

-A summary

-A way to the Manufacturer's diagnostics(the AXIOM menu formerly accessed w/ Vol +/- INFO)

-DVR Information

-Reboot (another way to reset)


----------



## Vchat20

Also, f*cking YAY! Guess this new diag screen isn't ALL bad. I actually have a page on here that will tell me the copy protection tags of the tuned channels.







Under 'Cablecard info' and 'Copy Protection' it's got the CCI codes for each stream flowing through the cablecard (up to 6 on this M-Stream card). So I can go through here and check ahead of time and see what will transfer across the firewire connection rather than just throwing out guesses.


EDIT: nickdawg: Make sure to make good use of the left and right arrow keys on the remote on the new diag screen. I've went through it and looks like it contains everything the AXIOM diags did but in a much easier to read format plus a whole ton more.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16197615
> 
> 
> Me living in a false sence of security?? Well, obviously you don't know me all that well!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The seneraio you bring up is pure wrecklessness, for the wage I currently live on now, I find my time isn't all that 'valuable' anymore.... $40 a month for cable is out of the question at this point too (staying on topic). I'm taking no one here has felt the downslide of the economy in the past 10 years either? Yes I foreseen a lot of this (but not all) approaching. I like technology too, yet I still like to 'simplify' life, only at times others won't let me, & make it inconvienient for me ... & even if that means using a rooftop antenna!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, I'm tired of the phonecalls, junk mail ect, but we must honor those who went off to college & aquired a marketing degree, & being paid well using it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eating out?? that became a luxury too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll check out the article, & see how this applies to me...



Hey, I use OTA too, I'm not belittling it's use. BTW: How do you like the new 43-2 Look TV? Last night they had an old movie with (very YOUNG) Jane Fonda, James Caan, and Jason Robards. The movie itself was quite silly but I just had to watch for 30 minutes in awe of how young they all looked. That channel is going to make us all feel very OLD!










EDIT: ooops......I meant This TV, not Look TV.










The article applies to anyone/everyone who uses the "old fashioned" way of conducting transactions (credit cards, ATM's, checks) but mostly focuses on how unsecure your credit card information is in the hands of retailers. Particularly how people feel more "secure" physically handing over their credit card instead of the statistically "more secure" use of credit card transactions over the internet.


It's the same false sense of security people have when they use their seat belt to drive on the freeway, but DON'T use their seat belt to drive to the grocery store. When, in fact, they are far more likely to be involved in an accident driving to the grocery store.










I actually knew a person who bought Flight Insurance when traveling, but refused to have basic Auto Insurance for his vehicle! Talk about a false sense of security!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16198859
> 
> 
> Also, f*cking YAY! Guess this new diag screen isn't ALL bad. I actually have a page on here that will tell me the copy protection tags of the tuned channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under 'Cablecard info' and 'Copy Protection' it's got the CCI codes for each stream flowing through the cablecard (up to 6 on this M-Stream card). So I can go through here and check ahead of time and see what will transfer across the firewire connection rather than just throwing out guesses.
> 
> 
> EDIT: nickdawg: Make sure to make good use of the left and right arrow keys on the remote on the new diag screen. I've went through it and looks like it contains everything the AXIOM diags did but in a much easier to read format plus a whole ton more.



Well, hip hip hooray, you can access the diagnostic screen. Now tell me can you actually watch a show on that thing yet?










I'm not certain I'm remembering this correctly but I seem to recall that back in the days of darkness and insecurity (SA 8300) a tech came out and ran a signal check. I believe at that time he showed me on the diagnostic screen how to check my signal strength. This would have been Adelphia.


Reason I mention is the so called secrecy of the diagnostic screen. I don't think it was such a secret then. But maybe there is another way to check signal strength. I just can't recall exactly, it's been a while.


----------



## hookbill

I was going to record it but changed my mind. Due to limited space currently I just didn't want to put it on my S3 and it didn't make sense to put it on my TiVo HD with no sound system.


I did take a look at it last night and man, am I glad I didn't record. FUSE had more commercials then performances. Yes, I can skip through the commercials but still it seemed ridiculous. And there had to be things going on during those commercials.


Still it was the first time they ever showed the induction ceremony live. It would have been better to have it on a HD channel. You would think one of the networks would have picked it up.


----------



## JJkizak

The technical quality of 43.2 looks very good compared to others. The Jane Fonda movie seemed to be given the "Sergio Leone" syndrome of long stares and no dialog.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/16200223
> 
> 
> The technical quality of 43.2 looks very good compared to others. The Jane Fonda movie seemed to be given the "Sergio Leone" syndrome of long stares and no dialog.
> 
> JJK



Yeah, all things considered, it does have decent PQ. Although most of the programming seems rather lame (Mr.Ed???) I think the concept makes sense for all parties. OTA Viewers get a bit more choice, local stations have more content to offer and sell ad space for, and the source (MGM) gets to dust off their old crap and squeeze a few more $$$ out of old shows and movies.


It's kinda like a syndicated nat'l network. Let's hope other studios and content owners follow suit and we might actually have *decent* sub-channel programming instead of the worthless weather subs.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Got my tech here this morning. An hour early which worked out well. Pretty knowledgeable guy. Just had him swap out my old moto dvr box, for an 8300 hd which is all he had in his truck. He told me he was told on Wednesday that they had been given the go ahead to swap out all moto boxes (couldn't for me since I had 4, 3 of which are still working perfectly fine). He also talked about new Samsung boxes that they were going to test in the next couple of months and that we may see in July.


He didn't know too much about the SDV change other than it was happening in the other areas. Where we are, Avon Lake/Bay Village which is part of the old Elyria/Mentor Comcadt area, I think we have more than enough bandwidth for a while.


So now I'm on one SA box, should i swap this for an HDC? Should I try and swap my other moto boxes? Wonder if they'll even have any non-DVR boxes and/or let me have them without paying another dvr fee? I don't need the dvr, just the hd capability.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16201211
> 
> 
> Got my tech here this morning. An hour early which worked out well. Pretty knowledgeable guy. Just had him swap out my old moto dvr box, for an 8300 hd which is all he had in his truck. He told me he was told on Wednesday that they had been given the go ahead to swap out all moto boxes (couldn't for me since I had 4, 3 of which are still working perfectly fine). He also talked about new Samsung boxes that they were going to test in the next couple of months and that we may see in July.
> 
> 
> He didn't know too much about the SDV change other than it was happening in the other areas. Where we are, Avon Lake/Bay Village which is part of the old Elyria/Mentor Comcadt area, I think we have more than enough bandwidth for a while.
> 
> 
> So now I'm on one SA box, should i swap this for an HDC? Should I try and swap my other moto boxes? Wonder if they'll even have any non-DVR boxes and/or let me have them without paying another dvr fee? I don't need the dvr, just the hd capability.



If you have an SA 8300 do not get the HDC. It is a real piece of garbage, even nickdawg will back me on that. You can get non DVR boxes, the SA 4250 is available.


If I were you and that tech says they are going to switch out those moto boxes, which I believed they were going to have to do switch out. Just take them in one at a time to a TW office and say they don't work. That's all you need to say, they will give you new boxes.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16198416
> 
> 
> No. It happens immediately when I change to the channel. Sometimes the picture does not even come on at all.
> 
> 
> Here, I'll re-post the video.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zxdc34t5-4



Thanks for reporting that link. So it's _only_ the SDV channels that are breaking up?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16200087
> 
> 
> I was going to record it but changed my mind. Due to limited space currently I just didn't want to put it on my S3 and it didn't make sense to put it on my TiVo HD with no sound system.
> 
> 
> I did take a look at it last night and man, am I glad I didn't record. FUSE had more commercials then performances. Yes, I can skip through the commercials but still it seemed ridiculous. And there had to be things going on during those commercials.
> 
> 
> Still it was the first time they ever showed the induction ceremony live. It would have been better to have it on a HD channel. You would think one of the networks would have picked it up.



Wouldn't ya think PALLADIA HD would show that? All they show is concerts and HD mucis videos at night. Why not show this event? Maybe they will show it later?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16201211
> 
> 
> Got my tech here this morning. An hour early which worked out well. Pretty knowledgeable guy. Just had him swap out my old moto dvr box, for an 8300 hd which is all he had in his truck. He told me he was told on Wednesday that they had been given the go ahead to swap out all moto boxes (couldn't for me since I had 4, 3 of which are still working perfectly fine). He also talked about new Samsung boxes that they were going to test in the next couple of months and that we may see in July.
> 
> 
> He didn't know too much about the SDV change other than it was happening in the other areas. Where we are, Avon Lake/Bay Village which is part of the old Elyria/Mentor Comcadt area, I think we have more than enough bandwidth for a while.
> 
> 
> So now I'm on one SA box, should i swap this for an HDC? Should I try and swap my other moto boxes? Wonder if they'll even have any non-DVR boxes and/or let me have them without paying another dvr fee? I don't need the dvr, just the hd capability.



You mean they didn't give you an 8300HDC?







I'm shocked and disturbed that they are giving out USED equipment. Even my TWC division still gives out the ANCIENT Passport BD-V1000 series boxes, which are garbage with MDN. But I guess it's no surprise(even though it a shock) that they are giving out old equipment. They're going to kick it around until it is completely dead.


For non-DVR TVs, there is the SA 4250HDC and for DVR there is the SA 8300HDC.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16201446
> 
> 
> If you have an SA 8300 do not get the HDC. It is a real piece of garbage, even nickdawg will back me on that. You can get non DVR boxes, the SA 4250 is available.
> 
> 
> If I were you and that tech says they are going to switch out those moto boxes, which I believed they were going to have to do switch out. Just take them in one at a time to a TW office and say they don't work. That's all you need to say, they will give you new boxes.



Not necessarily Hook. Now that TWC has downloaded ODN3 (for OCAP boxes 8300HDC, 4250HDC) I'm less hateful of the 8300HDC. I've read comments from other areas that have had ODN3 before us and most of the negative comments about the 8300HDC are gone. There still are a few bugs with eSATA external hard drives and the audio settings with HDMI, but those are tiny issues compared to what the problems used to be. (Plus, I don't use eSATA or HDMI, so it's not a worry).


Also, from my comparison, I've found that ODN is far superior to MDN. That's right, the OCAP boxes are now better than the "legacy" boxes. The biggest thing of all is ODN lists info in the guide like "HD", "Letterbox" and even categories for the show; ex: House would say (Drama/Health). Also, ODN has a feature called "Nearest Tune". When enabled, entering a channel number that does not exist, the box automatically tunes to the next channel. This is similar to what Passport used to do in the IPG, but now Navigator does this with channel numbers too. If you enter 4-0-9 (there is no channel 409) it will automatically tune to channel 410 (the next channel).


Pssst, I have a confession. I actually want a 8300HDC now.







I like the features I have on the 4250HDC like Nearest tune and the better guide. The old box and MDN just feels so "naked" now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16202230
> 
> 
> Not necessarily Hook. Now that TWC has downloaded ODN3 (for OCAP boxes 8300HDC, 4250HDC) I'm less hateful of the 8300HDC. I've read comments from other areas that have had ODN3 before us and most of the negative comments about the 8300HDC are gone. There still are a few bugs with eSATA external hard drives and the audio settings with HDMI, but those are tiny issues compared to what the problems used to be. (Plus, I don't use eSATA or HDMI, so it's not a worry).
> 
> 
> Also, from my comparison, I've found that ODN is far superior to MDN. That's right, the OCAP boxes are now better than the "legacy" boxes. The biggest thing of all is ODN lists info in the guide like "HD", "Letterbox" and even categories for the show; ex: House would say (Drama/Health). Also, ODN has a feature called "Nearest Tune". When enabled, entering a channel number that does not exist, the box automatically tunes to the next channel. This is similar to what Passport used to do in the IPG, but now Navigator does this with channel numbers too. If you enter 4-0-9 (there is no channel 409) it will automatically tune to channel 410 (the next channel).
> 
> 
> Pssst, I have a confession. I actually want a 8300HDC now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like the features I have on the 4250HDC like Nearest tune and the better guide. The old box and MDN just feels so "naked" now.



I should learn never to count on you to back me upl














Anyway you dress it up anything with SA 8300 is a pos in my book.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16202256
> 
> 
> I should learn never to count on you to back me upl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway you dress it up anything with SA 8300 is a pos in my book.



If it was last week, I would be there calling the 8300HDC (and even the 4250HDC) a POS.


Here, look for yourself. This is a video someone else on the Navigator forum uploaded showing off all the menus on ODN3, with the SA 8300HDC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Sdxw-VoxA


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16202291
> 
> 
> If it was last week, I would be there calling the 8300HDC (and even the 4250HDC) a POS.
> 
> 
> Here, look for yourself. This is a video someone else on the Navigator forum uploaded showing off all the menus on ODN3, with the SA 8300HDC.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Sdxw-VoxA



I got bored after 4 minutes. Sorry, not impressed at all. But that shouldn't surprise you. Oh it looks better then SARA, which didn't work at all but I wouldn't trade my DVR for one of those untrustworthy things.


----------



## nickdawg

I found this hookup diagram at twcneo.com. In that diagram, again we see what a huge box the tuning adapter is. I was especting something a bit smaller.























http://www.timewarnercable.com/Media...elfInstall.pdf


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16199962
> 
> 
> Hey, I use OTA too, I'm not belittling it's use. BTW: How do you like the new 43-2 Look TV? Last night they had an old movie with (very YOUNG) Jane Fonda, James Caan, and Jason Robards. The movie itself was quite silly but I just had to watch for 30 minutes in awe of how young they all looked. That channel is going to make us all feel very OLD!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: ooops......I meant This TV, not Look TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article applies to anyone/everyone who uses the "old fashioned" way of conducting transactions (credit cards, ATM's, checks) but mostly focuses on how unsecure your credit card information is in the hands of retailers. Particularly how people feel more "secure" physically handing over their credit card instead of the statistically "more secure" use of credit card transactions over the internet.
> 
> 
> It's the same false sense of security people have when they use their seat belt to drive on the freeway, but DON'T use their seat belt to drive to the grocery store. When, in fact, they are far more likely to be involved in an accident driving to the grocery store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually knew a person who bought Flight Insurance when traveling, but refused to have basic Auto Insurance for his vehicle! Talk about a false sense of security!



Darn, that article would not load, have to read on at the library. My cuz sends me up those article links like that also. CC transactions likely invlove a PC anyhow, but I am curious why my PC suddenly stops amongst incoming internet activity, who is looking for what within my PC??... even this site stalls becomes squirllie & wants to be upgraded from Adobe.


As this is Tax crunch time, I would never file online, I'm wondering always about keystroke loggers, ect, of course if you had a mailman like yours truly, I always wonder who gets my mail, as I get others mail several times a week.


I likely caught that same Fonda movie earlier today as they are repeting now... still it's a nice alternative to what is on, especially at certain times of the say, & I DO like Mr. Ed.... haven't see that in years!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16204255
> 
> 
> I found this hookup diagram at twcneo.com. In that diagram, again we see what a huge box the tuning adapter is. I was especting something a bit smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/Media...elfInstall.pdf



I didn't see picture probably because I'm using blackberry but directions were good.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16200433
> 
> 
> Yeah, all things considered, it does have decent PQ. Although most of the programming seems rather lame (Mr.Ed???) I think the concept makes sense for all parties. OTA Viewers get a bit more choice, local stations have more content to offer and sell ad space for, and the source (MGM) gets to dust off their old crap and squeeze a few more $$$ out of old shows and movies.
> 
> 
> It's kinda like a syndicated nat'l network. Let's hope other studios and content owners follow suit and we might actually have *decent* sub-channel programming instead of the worthless weather subs.



Hopefully, but will you think Cleveland will be actually willing to pick anything else up?


I wouldn't call the Wx subs worthless (you suggest the weather channel?), but we absolutely don't need a 3rd one. Look at the much smaller markets & how they are utilizing their subs, ie sports channels... I can remember Independent Ch 51 in Miami (WKID ???), running the Stock tickers afternoons back in the late 70's early 80's.


----------



## Vchat20

I also want to point out that I think that either the OCAP or Navigator upgrade seems to also have cured the glitchiness I have been having with my firewire captures where while the playback on the tv may be clear with no pixelation whatsoever, I get pixelation all over the place on the firewire transfer.


I just grabbed a small 5-ish minute clip off WOIOHD during the ACM awards (I'm a HUGE Rascal Flatts fan, so you can probably guess what in particular







) and so far during playback of the TS file it's crystal clear. Never that lucky before.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16204589
> 
> 
> I also want to point out that I think that either the OCAP or Navigator upgrade seems to also have cured the glitchiness I have been having with my firewire captures where while the playback on the tv may be clear with no pixelation whatsoever, I get pixelation all over the place on the firewire transfer.
> 
> 
> I just grabbed a small 5-ish minute clip off WOIOHD during the ACM awards (I'm a HUGE Rascal Flatts fan, so you can probably guess what in particular
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and so far during playback of the TS file it's crystal clear. Never that lucky before.



How's that 8300HDC working out? I'm thinking I'll have to trade in my box now, it seems all fraked up lately. Whenever it boots, the IPG and all the channels do not work, just analog. And this is after at least 5 minutes of watching the mystro "Initializing, please wait" screen. I've had to reboot both boxes and surprisingly the OCAP box boots faster than the old box. Plus the OCAP box has much better features with ODN 3, like showing in the guide when a show is HD and Nearest Tune, which makes entering a channel that doesn't exist tune to the next channel.


----------



## Vchat20

Personally I have never really had any problems with ODN2. Except for the firewire pixelation, sluggish input response, and maybe a -slight- miff with the color scheme after first seeing screencaps of ODN3's new colors.


ODN3 though seems to improve on that and more. Better hardware diagnostics now, nicer color scheme, a handful of added features like nearest tune, categories/keywords, just a slight bit faster and more responsive than ODN2 that I have personally noticed (Though it was never a showstopper for me with v2 so may be less noticable in my case).


I have used MDN though a bit. My aunt has an 8000HD running MDN currently with her ~25in HD LCD. I can safely say that MDN doesn't have too many advantages over ODN now. Responsive and has that nice interface fading feature. That's about it.


But MDN is on it's way out though. The only reason it is there is just to keep the old equipment running as to not force people into swapping their boxes on the spot. But once that equipment dies, that is it. With the FCC legislations out now, OCAP/tru2way equipment is soon going to be the only equipment either you or the cablecos are going to be able to purchase (legally) to interact with the cable network and using cablecards or other security mechanisms (such as the integrated chips currently in R&D where the security functions are downloaded from the headend. This will replace cablecards completely soon.).


With the above noted, if you have no problems switching your box out for the 8300HDC, go for it. You may not like what I am about to say here, but you'd be giving TWC a hand in following through with their 'evil plans(tm)'










On a side note: I am anxiously waiting for the Samsungs to hit this region. Seems like other regions are grabbing them lately. Charlotte, NC has them, NYC either has them or is in testings, and I think I heard something about SJC getting them too. Once I have wind that they have the samsungs in here, my butt will be out the door on the spot to go swap this sucker.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16204799
> 
> 
> With the above noted, if you have no problems switching your box out for the 8300HDC, go for it. You may not like what I am about to say here, but you'd be giving TWC a hand in following through with their 'evil plans(tm)'



If their 'evil plans' include a guide that identifies HDTV programming(as Passport used to do) and Nearest Tune, then that's an evil plan I can agree with!










Hey Hookbill, does SARA have any of these features? Does SARA include HDTV in the descriptions of shows in the IPG? Does SARA tune the next closest channel when a nonexistent number is entered?



> Quote:
> On a side note: I am anxiously waiting for the Samsungs to hit this region. Seems like other regions are grabbing them lately. Charlotte, NC has them, NYC either has them or is in testings, and I think I heard something about SJC getting them too. Once I have wind that they have the samsungs in here, my butt will be out the door on the spot to go swap this sucker.



There is one huge caveat to the new Sammy. Even though the box is capable of true 16:9 guide/graphics, word is from NC that TWC is not using real 16:9 graphics and they're not using the same 4:3 pillarbox guide. The ODN guide is being stretched to fill the 16:9 screen.







All of the cable box UI screens are stretched horizontally(the channel banner, guide, access menu, settings etc) on all channels.





















That's bullspit. In 2009, I refuse to be subjected to forced stretchovision UI screens. TWC should be embarrassed and shamed out of the room for dropping the ball in such a huge way. TWC could have a new Sammy there next week, and I wouldn't take it because of my commitment to being anti-stretchovision. Strike that. I would take the box, take it home, see the stretched menus. Then I'd take it back to the TWC office and b***h about "why are the menus stretched/distorted"? Make my anti-stretchovision voice heard.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, the stretched UI issue I would start looking at Samsung to complain about. Unless TWC is pushing a completely different build of ODN to those boxes (which should not be the case for OCAP, but who knows).


Regardless, it's a hit below the belt I'd be willing to take for a much snappier box, hopeful home networking features (do they keep the ethernet hardware in these or are they removed just like every other STB TWC has that offers it in the original hardware spec?), and roughly double the drive space of what the current HD boxes offer.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16205026
> 
> 
> Actually, the stretched UI issue I would start looking at Samsung to complain about. Unless TWC is pushing a completely different build of ODN to those boxes (which should not be the case for OCAP, but who knows).
> 
> 
> Regardless, it's a hit below the belt I'd be willing to take for a much snappier box, hopeful home networking features (do they keep the ethernet hardware in these or are they removed just like every other STB TWC has that offers it in the original hardware spec?), and roughly double the drive space of what the current HD boxes offer.



I think they still have the ethernet, but it might not be active. Someone from NC said it has a "home network" port, and they may or may not have tried it. I get the feeling this is the hardware groundwork for a "Tivo-like" experience, where internet will combine with the TV.


Could it be Samsung's fault? Could that be something in their box's DVR/OCAP middleware that causes the graphics to be stretched? It seems very odd. Like something that would have to be caused, rather than happening accidentally.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16205077
> 
> 
> I think they still have the ethernet, but it might not be active. Someone from NC said it has a "home network" port, and they may or may not have tried it. I get the feeling this is the hardware groundwork for a "Tivo-like" experience, where internet will combine with the TV.
> 
> 
> Could it be Samsung's fault? Could that be something in their box's DVR/OCAP middleware that causes the graphics to be stretched? It seems very odd. Like something that would have to be caused, rather than happening accidentally.



Yeah. In a number of other places it's been going around that a certain model of the samsung box will have both MoCA (box-to-box networking over the house Coax) and ethernet connectivity. Of course Navigator isn't going to have the support NOW, but the ability is there and only needs to have support added in software. Much easier to write a few hundred lines of code and push the update than wait on a new box to be designed, built, sold, and distributed.


And like I said: Unless TWC is pushing a custom ODN build to the Samsung boxes, it's more than likely a bug in Samsung's box or whoever they licensed for their OCAP system. And the way OCAP has been set from the ground up to take Java's stance of 'Write once, run anywhere' so they only need one built, I have high doubts they have a custom build unless they have a VERY good reason to. Otherwise just a waste of manpower.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16205117
> 
> 
> Yeah. In a number of other places it's been going around that a certain model of the samsung box will have both MoCA (box-to-box networking over the house Coax) and ethernet connectivity. Of course Navigator isn't going to have the support NOW, but the ability is there and only needs to have support added in software. Much easier to write a few hundred lines of code and push the update than wait on a new box to be designed, built, sold, and distributed.



Is that like the different version of the 8300 that's supposed to be multi-room? I remember seeing something else about that where the SA boxes could have the capability to play back recordings from another box in another room, but I don't think TWC(or any cableco) ever went far with that.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. It's pretty much the same thing going on. SA had a multir-room DVR years ago and even Passport had a MR application available for the Echo platform. But for whatever reason that TWC never utilised it, I have no clue. Just another thing they drug their feet on I guess.


----------



## hookbill

You guys were up late last night.










In regards to SARA, yes, it goes to the next available channel, HD is included in the description but you cant count on it. Remember, guide information has to do with the provider of service, not the software and I still think we are using two different service providers for guide data.


FYI, TiVo uses SD graphics too, something that's been a huge complaint in the TiVo Forum, at least it was when I was there. To me the graphics are not important, it just kind of makes the DVR itself either look good or bad but that's like looking at the exterior of a car. Just cause it looks like a sports car like my Saturn S2 did doesn't mean it has the power of one.


I received a "Service Update" on my TiVo HD the other day. Now usually when we get an update we get an explanation of what the update is about, although it may not be as detailed as some of us like. This one had no explanation, no message along with it.


Turns out, that when you pause a message pops up saying "more information on this show press select."


I'll bite, and selected the more information key and it locked up my TiVo accessing the wireless network!










Apparently it also works as some type of COMMERCIAL when you pause your TiVo but I have not seen that happen. You would still have to launch it to view it.


Anyway, it didn't take long somebody came up with a code to work around it so I input the code and no more box popping up now it just pauses like it's suppose to. This is happening on software version 11.0c and the work around is while playing back a recording pause when the "More About" shows up press arrow down then press play again. After you've done that you enter SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-PAUSE-SELECT code and that nasty window will not show up to disturb your viewing pleasure again.










As usual they make a move, we make a counter move.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16204255
> 
> 
> I found this hookup diagram at twcneo.com. In that diagram, again we see what a huge box the tuning adapter is. I was especting something a bit smaller.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/Media...elfInstall.pdf



OK I saw the drawing you looked at and really my picture is more accurate. That drawing makes it look like it's half the size of the TiVo. Not true. You can see in my picture a portion of the S3 and height is like 3 of those adapters and it would take about 1 and a half of an adapter to make an S3.


I looked again at the one I have in the bedroom and it actually hangs off the shelf by about two inches. I could probably reduce that by taking a coax cable and cutting it and put a new end on it because rolling up that cable is reducing the amount of available area on the shelf.


----------



## Vchat20

One thing I'm curious about the tuning adapters is if it has any actual need to hook up the coax? I'm trying to think about this from a technical point of view and I just can't see any way it has of any interaction with the box through the coax. Maybe as a test try running the cable directly to the tivo, bypassing the tuning adapter, but keep the usb plugged in and see if it affects anything?


Granted, it still needs it's own connection to the cable line so they probably just use the passthrough to minimize use of splitters. That's the only thing I can think of.


Otherwise though, maybe you can hide the tuning adapter somewhere else like behind the shelf or somewhere? If it turns out that it's true that wiring the coax for the tivo through the adapter only works as a passthrough, could probably utilize an extra split and an extended usb cable to put it somewhere out of the way.


Also, just another curiosity: But does the DC jack on the adapter give any signs of a power rating? If not, what is listed on the wallwart in terms of output voltage and current? I'm interested in how much juice these things use. Though my next guess is probably for naught considering they have to scream back to the headend for their function. But maybe if the power consumption is low enough they could be powered through usb thus removing one more needless wart from the already cramped power strip/UPS. USB is usually rated for [email protected] or 2.5W per each powered port and I use it to power a lot of things very often even if those devices were never intended to be powered by it (but are in the consumption range of USB's given output). I remember even at one time I had a nice big 120mm computer fan wired to a usb plug and had that plugged into my old SA8000 box and the fan laid on top of the box over the hard drive pulling out and it kept the temp down noticeably on the thing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16205869
> 
> 
> One thing I'm curious about the tuning adapters is if it has any actual need to hook up the coax? I'm trying to think about this from a technical point of view and I just can't see any way it has of any interaction with the box through the coax. Maybe as a test try running the cable directly to the tivo, bypassing the tuning adapter, but keep the usb plugged in and see if it affects anything?



Interesting theory. I don't know why the signal has to go through the box first. But I'll tell you it's a bit of a pia to undue the cables due to space limitations so now that I got it set I'm going to let it alone.


You are correct the adapter makes the TiVo two way capable by USB. I didn't even think about why I'm hooking up another coax cable.



Also, just another curiosity: But does the DC jack on the adapter give any signs of a power rating? If not, what is listed on the wallwart in terms of output voltage and current? I'm interested in how much juice these things use. Though my next guess is probably for naught considering they have to scream back to the headend for their function. But maybe if the power consumption is low enough they could be powered through usb thus removing one more needless wart from the already cramped power strip/UPS. USB is usually rated for [email protected] or 2.5W per each powered port and I use it to power a lot of things very often even if those devices were never intended to be powered by it (but are in the consumption range of USB's given output). I remember even at one time I had a nice big 120mm computer fan wired to a usb plug and had that plugged into my old SA8000 box and the fan laid on top of the box over the hard drive pulling out and it kept the temp down noticeably on the thing.[/quote]


There is no information that came with the Tuner Adapter in regards to voltage output that I recall but I did take a look at the AC adapter itself and it says Input 100-120V-1A 50-60hz, Output 12V 2.5A 30w Max. Now that's the adapter from the wall I'm talking about. There is no information at all on the USB adapter.


----------



## bassguitarman

I watched the rock hall inductions too. I couldnt believe how long Flea rambled on introducing Metallica. They should ban paper speeches, his looked like it was 6 pages long !. Since the show ran long past what the DVR recorded I missed the ending jam session with Metallica and most of the others (Beck, Ronnie Wood, Jimmy Page)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16205995
> 
> 
> I watched the rock hall inductions too. I couldnt believe how long Flea rambled on introducing Metallica. They should ban paper speeches, his looked like it was 6 pages long !. Since the show ran long past what the DVR recorded I missed the ending jam session with Metallica and most of the others (Beck, Ronnie Wood, Jimmy Page)



While I ended up not recording it, TiVo recognized it was a live event and offered to add an hour to the recording. I said OK, but eventually cancelled recording. 5 hours just seemed so long.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16205942
> 
> 
> Interesting theory. I don't know why the signal has to go through the box first. But I'll tell you it's a bit of a pia to undue the cables due to space limitations so now that I got it set I'm going to let it alone.
> 
> 
> You are correct the adapter makes the TiVo two way capable by USB. I didn't even think about why I'm hooking up another coax cable.



Yeah. I don't blame ya.







But it kinda makes sense though since the Tivo only has a one-way tuner, it'd be back at square one if they relied on that coax between the tuning adapter and the Tivo. And since the Tivo has an available USABLE usb port, it's the next best thing without making huge, unecessary modifications to the box (like the ugly ethernet NICs for the earlier generation tivo's that you needed to string a cat5 cable out a hole under the box and wiggle the card in place in there. That looked like a mess.). So, theorhetically anyway, the only NEEDED connections are the 'cable in' connection on the tuning adapter, the usb cable to the tivo, and of course the power. The connection they have you make from the tivo to the tuning adapter via coax I can only assume is just a passthrough to cut out the need for an extra splitter. The only thing that makes sense at this point.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16205942
> 
> 
> There is no information that came with the Tuner Adapter in regards to voltage output that I recall but I did take a look at the AC adapter itself and it says Input 100-120V-1A 50-60hz, Output 12V 2.5A 30w Max. Now that's the adapter from the wall I'm talking about. There is no information at all on the USB adapter.



Ah. Well, that i way beyond what I was originally expecting it to be, but I'm not surprised in the least. Basically the output rating being the absolute maximum it can be loaded with, the tuning adapter has to be somewhere within that range. But it's certainly way beyond what usb can support (unfortunately).


Probably overkill, but maybe a similar idea to this would be of help to the UPS space hog situation: http://www.cyberguys.com/product-det...productid=9921 I've been meaning to get some of these myself for AGES and just never gotten around to it. Here in my bedroom on my computer desk I have two dollar store 7-8 port power strips mounted on each side both full up (TV, Wii, old laptop used as a media box for the tv, computer tower, 2 monitors, speakers, router, and a fax/printer/sheetfed scanner combo. All of that and between of a few of these using the oversized wallwarts and having to rely on the crappy flimsy extension cords for a few things, I don't feel safe leaving this more permanent than it needs to be. Would certainly LOVE to get a UPS instead, but that is way out of my price range with current budgets (and if I ever did get a hold of one, it'd be prioritized to the modem/EMTA, my router box (generic 400mhz tower running smoothwall), and my server.)


----------



## smoti17

I just got e-mail from Jeanie saying my tuning adapter will be shipping to me via FedEx over the next few days  It looks like a generic message to all rather than a response to my correspondence, and does not have any tracking information. There is also a Tuning Adapter hotline number, (330) 572 4116.


They are cutting it fine...


As to whether the tuning adapter needs to be hooked up to the coax, I guess this would depend on whether the Tivo has the ability to transmit back to the head-end built-in. I suspect that it does already, as there appears to be two-way communication between the CableCard and the head-end (for e.g. handshake during firmware update file transfers, and presumably acknowledging hits). It is of course possible the signaling/frequency/encoding of SDV control signals is done differently from what the Tivo transmit hardware is capable of. No doubt this is all explained/buried in the relevant CableLabs docs.


And oh great, looks like the tuning adapter comes with another wall-wart PSU, just what I need :-(


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16206042
> 
> 
> 
> Probably overkill, but maybe a similar idea to this would be of help to the UPS space hog situation: http://www.cyberguys.com/product-det...productid=9921 I've been meaning to get some of these myself for AGES and just never gotten around to it. Here in my bedroom on my computer desk I have two dollar store 7-8 port power strips mounted on each side both full up (TV, Wii, old laptop used as a media box for the tv, computer tower, 2 monitors, speakers, router, and a fax/printer/sheetfed scanner combo. All of that and between of a few of these using the oversized wallwarts and having to rely on the crappy flimsy extension cords for a few things, I don't feel safe leaving this more permanent than it needs to be. Would certainly LOVE to get a UPS instead, but that is way out of my price range with current budgets (and if I ever did get a hold of one, it'd be prioritized to the modem/EMTA, my router box (generic 400mhz tower running smoothwall), and my server.)



Don't see that happening. There is no end to fit into the Tuner Adapter.


The Tuner Adapter usb is a square female end. I've never seen anything quite like it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16206058
> 
> 
> I just got e-mail from Jeanie saying my tuning adapter will be shipping to me via FedEx over the next few days  It looks like a generic message to all rather than a response to my correspondence, and does not have any tracking information. There is also a Tuning Adapter hotline number, (330) 572 4116.
> 
> 
> They are cutting it fine...
> 
> 
> As to whether the tuning adapter needs to be hooked up to the coax, I guess this would depend on whether the Tivo has the ability to transmit back to the head-end built-in. I suspect that it does already, as there appears to be two-way communication between the CableCard and the head-end (for e.g. handshake during firmware update file transfers, and presumably acknowledging hits). It is of course possible the signaling/frequency/encoding of SDV control signals is done differently from what the Tivo transmit hardware is capable of. No doubt this is all explained/buried in the relevant CableLabs docs.
> 
> 
> And oh great, looks like the tuning adapter comes with another wall-wart PSU, just what I need :-(



I don't have that number, thanks. Apparently I lost her card, but I still have Jeanie's email on my computer. I'll bet she's the one handling that hotline.


----------



## gavram

Has anyone received the new Navigator update in the Cleveland area yet? I'm actually south of Cleveland but I'm using the older 8300HD box and it sounds like the 8300HDC's are the ones receiving the update.


I'm looking forward to the update...SARA is antiquated. I left my Tivo when I went HD and not having the ability to search for programs by name or to be able to tell if a program is new is killing me!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gavram* /forum/post/16206152
> 
> 
> Has anyone received the new Navigator update in the Cleveland area yet? I'm actually south of Cleveland but I'm using the older 8300HD box and it sounds like the 8300HDC's are the ones receiving the update.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to the update...SARA is antiquated. I left my Tivo when I went HD and not having the ability to search for programs by name or to be able to tell if a program is new is killing me!



We've covered this pretty extensively. It appears that SDV is going to start with SARA, so you will not be getting a Navigator update. This applies to all ex Adelphia areas that used the SA 8300 box.


Sorry, that's just how it worked out. When TW goes to Tru2way you can expect a change at that time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gavram* /forum/post/16206152
> 
> 
> Has anyone received the new Navigator update in the Cleveland area yet? I'm actually south of Cleveland but I'm using the older 8300HD box and it sounds like the 8300HDC's are the ones receiving the update.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to the update...SARA is antiquated. I left my Tivo when I went HD and not having the ability to search for programs by name or to be able to tell if a program is new is killing me!



Are you sure the updates happened in a SARA area? Last week, boxes that already had Navigator (ODN 2.4.10_11) were updated with ODN 3.1.1_3. So far, haven't heard anything about SARA areas converting to Navigator.


It will happen, eventually. But I doubt any time soon, as it seems SDV and tuning adapters are the main priority right now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16206340
> 
> 
> Are you sure the updates happened in a SARA area? Last week, boxes that already had Navigator (ODN 2.4.10_11) were updated with ODN 3.1.1_3. So far, haven't heard anything about SARA areas converting to Navigator.
> 
> 
> It will happen, eventually. But I doubt any time soon, as it seems SDV and tuning adapters are the main priority right now.



If he's in SARA area, he's stuck with SARA I mean that's pretty much a fact.


I still believe there is some type of problem in converting SARA to Navigator. And this is where I'd like to hear something from Cathode Kid, who told me once that this was not a problem and he knew of a box that was converted from SARA to Navigator.


Outside of his comment, I don't know anybody in any part of the country that's been converted from SARA to Navigator.


Are you seeing anything different on the Navigator boards, nickdawg?


I think Vchat20 is right the change for SARA people will happen when TW implements Tru2Way.


----------



## scnrfrq

Just saved $5.27 a month on my TW bill. No biggy, but every dollar counts. If you are being charged $10/month for the Digital Plus Tier under the old Adelphia billing, it includes the Encore Movie channels and some sports channels. If you don't want Encore, you can have them delete it and just keep the sports channels. That's a savings of $5.27.


And if you're lucky like me, the Encore channels are still there after they said they deleted them!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16206516
> 
> 
> Just saved $5.27 a month on my TW bill. No biggy, but every dollar counts. If you are being charged $10/month for the Digital Plus Tier under the old Adelphia billing, it includes the Encore Movie channels and some sports channels. If you don't want Encore, you can have them delete it and just keep the sports channels. That's a savings of $5.27.
> 
> 
> And if you're lucky like me, the Encore channels are still there after they said they deleted them!



Don't count your chickens before they hatch. I've seen them disappear next day.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16206068
> 
> 
> Don't see that happening. There is no end to fit into the Tuner Adapter.
> 
> 
> The Tuner Adapter usb is a square female end. I've never seen anything quite like it.



Does it look like this USB cable (left side) would go into the tuning adapters female USB port?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage 


It's essentially a square connection with two "squared" corners and two "rounded" corners.


If yes (and I highly suspect it is), it's an industry standard connection on the USB device.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16207405
> 
> 
> Does it look like this USB cable (left side) would go into the tuning adapters female USB port?
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage
> 
> 
> It's essentially a square connection with two "squared" corners and two "rounded" corners.
> 
> 
> If yes (and I highly suspect it is), it's an industry standard connection on the USB device.



I took a look at it and it does look similar. Everything else I have hooked up to USB has a different end. I can't believe I don't have a single USB in the house that doesn't use a standard cable. My printer doesn't. I have a 2 PC's in the house a Laptop, and a Mac not to mention my two TiVo's and nothing has that accept the Tuner Adapter.


I guess nothing I use has a standard USB cable up until now.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16207536
> 
> 
> I took a look at it and it does look similar. Everything else I have hooked up to USB has a different end. I can't believe I don't have a single USB in the house that doesn't use a standard cable. My printer doesn't. I have a 2 PC's in the house a Laptop, and a Mac not to mention my two TiVo's and nothing has that accept the Tuner Adapter.
> 
> 
> I guess nothing I use has a standard USB cable up until now.



Both are standard.










What the difference is between the two I dunno. I have two external USB HD's, a USB Hub/28 Card Reader box, and two USB printers and all use the "square" type connection. It's quite common.


I think the more common ways these two USB connections are used is as follows:

- a device that is intended to utilize other USB devices use the more common end you are used to seeing

- a USB device "to be used by" other devices use the square connection.


It isn't universal (ex: your printer and my printer have different USB connections) but I think the above explanation follows suit more often than not.


----------



## smoti17

Jeanie has just sent me a further, personal e-mail, with tracking number, delivery scheduled tomorrow. Phew.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16208017
> 
> 
> Jeanie has just sent me a further, personal e-mail, with tracking number, delivery scheduled tomorrow. Phew.



And it will be there early too, mine came at 9:30 am. They FedEx overnight.


You really should consider yourself lucky, all of us should. If we lived in native TW area we would have had SDV for probably two months now I think.


But then again as it stands right now there are only a few stations that are SDV would effect me personally. All the new HD stations will probably be SDV including the 5 we just got.


Glad to hear you got taken care of.


----------



## TYTONK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/16200223
> 
> 
> The technical quality of 43.2 looks very good compared to others. The Jane Fonda movie seemed to be given the "Sergio Leone" syndrome of long stares and no dialog.
> 
> JJK



Is anyone picking up this station using their QAM tuner? If so, where is it located, 43-2? Thanks Tyler


----------



## nickdawg

If your antenna can get WUAB on 43-1, just do a re-scan and 43-2 should show up.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/16208280
> 
> 
> Is anyone picking up this station using their QAM tuner? If so, where is it located, 43-2? Thanks Tyler



The station is not carried on TW yet, they are probably still working out the negotiations...


If/when TW ink's the agreement, hopefully it will pop up in the QAM lineup.


----------



## smoti17

I did a clear QAM scan on my LG DVD recorder on Sunday, which seems to be better at finding stations than my Tivo or HDTV. No sign of 43-2 yet (or indeed any of the new HD channels, which I think most folks here had already figured were scrambled).


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16207958
> 
> 
> Both are standard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the difference is between the two I dunno. I have two external USB HD's, a USB Hub/28 Card Reader box, and two USB printers and all use the "square" type connection. It's quite common.
> 
> 
> I think the more common ways these two USB connections are used is as follows:
> 
> - a device that is intended to utilize other USB devices use the more common end you are used to seeing
> 
> - a USB device "to be used by" other devices use the square connection.
> 
> 
> It isn't universal (ex: your printer and my printer have different USB connections) but I think the above explanation follows suit more often than not.


 http://computer.howstuffworks.com/usb1.htm


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16209862
> 
> 
> 
> hookbill: What I was referring to in that original post was in reference to trying to clear out space on the UPS in regards to actual power, not the usb connection.



That wasn't really an issue. For the S3 I just took my DVD player and plugged it to another USB connector that is for smaller electronic equipment. My USB has 6 outlets for battery usage and I really only need it for that brief time where the lights go out and my natural gas powered generator kick in.


TiVo HD I just moved the television to a non battery outlet and when generator kicks in that will come back on.


----------



## hookbill

I just thought I'd pass along to baseball fans that MLB net is going to have "Thursday Night Baseball" as a regular series showing MLB games. First game is this Thursday, Brewers vs. Giants.


Something to look forward to when TW delivers MLB NET in HD.


Satellite people, do you have that already?


Also Tribe announcer Matt Underwood is on Twitter. He's "following" me so I was able to send him a direct message. He was nice enough to respond.


----------



## JoeDeth

Ah, ye olde AVS Forum. How I have missed thee. How I have forgotten how informative though art.


Question.


I have an LG 46" LCD tv which was purchased about a 1 1/2 years ago and a new LG 26" for the bedroom just purchased yesterday. Both are connected via splitter to a newly installed (2 years ago) OTA broadcast antenna on the roof of the house.


On the 26" tv I can receive channel 25 HDTV (PBS), on the 46" I cannot. Barring the obvious possible difference in the actual digital tuner used in the sets, is there something else I can try/do or that I'm missing?


I can actually get 3-4 digital 25's on the 26", I get none on the 46". All other digital channels on the 46" come through perfectly.


House is on the west side of Cleveland, near the Lakewood border.


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeDeth* /forum/post/16210395
> 
> 
> On the 26" tv I can receive channel 25 HDTV (PBS), on the 46" I cannot. Barring the obvious possible difference in the actual digital tuner used in the sets, is there something else I can try/do or that I'm missing?



Right off the bat, try removing the splitter and connecting the 46" set directly to the antenna. That will give you 3db more signal. If that fixes it, you can possibly replace the splitter with a 3db directional coupler, and connect the "tap" side to the set that needs less signal, allowing for more of it to flow through to the set that needs more.


You can also purchase a broadband amp and place it between the antenna and the input to the splitter.


Or you could ditch it all and get cable.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16206400
> 
> 
> I still believe there is some type of problem in converting SARA to Navigator. And this is where I'd like to hear something from Cathode Kid, who told me once that this was not a problem and he knew of a box that was converted from SARA to Navigator.



I can't speak for any of the operators in town, however in general terms -


The firmware that runs on a STB is closely intertwined with the software that runs on the controller at the other end. That software, in turn, needs to be able to communicate with a myriad of other systems including VOD servers, billing systems, QAM modulators and EAS systems. SDV is just another application heaped upon the pile. As long as a box has enough memory and the app is written to run on that OS, there's nothing to prevent it from being deployed without having to do a forklift upgrade of the back-end servers. And SDV apps have been written for most of the major STB OS's including SARA. So I wouldn't sweat about OS conversions.


----------



## hookbill

Last year I didn't buy MLB extra innings. Its free this week. I notice that they are listing HD games. I caught the last out of the Dodgers win over san diego and I thought it looked exceptionally good.


Well darn if that wasn't an HD listed game but I wonder if it was truly HD. Does anyone know is TW showing these listed HD games in HD in the700's? Thinking of buying.


----------



## Vchat20

I'm actually a bit surprised about this Palladia channel. At first I thought it was some spanish channel of some sort. Even after seeing it was a music related channel, figured it wouldn't amount to much being an MTV network. But I found quite a number of programs through the keyword searching function that are worth recording.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16211766
> 
> 
> I can't speak for any of the operators in town, however in general terms -
> 
> 
> The firmware that runs on a STB is closely intertwined with the software that runs on the controller at the other end. That software, in turn, needs to be able to communicate with a myriad of other systems including VOD servers, billing systems, QAM modulators and EAS systems. SDV is just another application heaped upon the pile. As long as a box has enough memory and the app is written to run on that OS, there's nothing to prevent it from being deployed without having to do a forklift upgrade of the back-end servers. And SDV apps have been written for most of the major STB OS's including SARA. So I wouldn't sweat about OS conversions.



It's not a question about worrying about the type of application they use. Matter of fact I really don't care, it doesn't bother me one way or another. But it does drive my curiosity in to why they decided to go with two systems?


Vchat20 presented a very good argument on why TW would want to have only one system and one software. Obviously using their own software, Navigator, they can call out enhancements (like the "word search") feature on Navigator. Now I can't be certain but I'm just willing to bet that SARA does not have that feature.


It's pretty obvious that for a while ex Adelphia is going to be stuck with SARA and there has got to be a reason for it. I probably will never get an answer.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16213408
> 
> 
> I'm actually a bit surprised about this Palladia channel. At first I thought it was some spanish channel of some sort. Even after seeing it was a music related channel, figured it wouldn't amount to much being an MTV network. But I found quite a number of programs through the keyword searching function that are worth recording.



The fact that Navigator has this function gives me new respect for this software. I'd like to see how that one works, but a couple of questions.


On your keyword search does it go within any day of the current schedule to search, or are you restricted to searching within only one days time?


Also how far out does your schedule go? Last I saw it was only 7 days.


----------



## ErieMarty

anyone having same problem as me..


I am able to pick this up on my Regular TV with a Digital Box..but not on my HD Set with my Time Warner HD DVR Box...it comes in for about 5 seconds and switches to a message saying...you have to pay for it..to receive it..


Regular TV I get it..but not on my HD TV......



any idea whats going on


----------



## hookbill

I said yesterday that it looked like games were available in HD, and that's true if you subscribe to satellite, but not if you're a TW customer.


They have a channel called "Game HD" and that one does not appear on TW's list of channels unless they happen to show it on 437 HD Sports but I've got a feeling it doesn't work that way.


Dodgers and San Diego are on tonight in HD so I'll have to take a look at 437 and see if the game will be there. I think it's doubtful. Come on TW I have to pay full price and I get no HD?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16213587
> 
> 
> anyone having same problem as me..
> 
> 
> I am able to pick this up on my Regular TV with a Digital Box..but not on my HD Set with my Time Warner HD DVR Box...it comes in for about 5 seconds and switches to a message saying...you have to pay for it..to receive it..
> 
> 
> Regular TV I get it..but not on my HD TV......
> 
> 
> 
> any idea whats going on



Marty, it should be free no matter what box you are using. It's free this week. You should be able to get it no matter what, but good luck trying to talk to a TW rep about this. They probably don't even know it's free this week. Heck I even get it on my TiVos.


----------



## JJkizak

Joe Deth:

There are differences in the quality of the new tuners verses the old tuners in sensitivity, speed and the operation of the menu software. How big and what kind is your antenna? Is it UHF only? How long and what kind is the lead in? Is the impedance matching transformer installed at the antenna? (300 to 75 ohm) Did you install the connectors on the lead in or were they factory installed? Does your antenna rotate? Sometimes 1/2" change in direction means on lot. How far away are you from the TV station?

JJK


----------



## JoeDeth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16211653
> 
> 
> Right off the bat, try removing the splitter and connecting the 46" set directly to the antenna. That will give you 3db more signal. If that fixes it, you can possibly replace the splitter with a 3db directional coupler, and connect the "tap" side to the set that needs less signal, allowing for more of it to flow through to the set that needs more.
> 
> 
> You can also purchase a broadband amp and place it between the antenna and the input to the splitter.
> 
> 
> Or you could ditch it all and get cable.



I like the idea of the broadband amp. Recommend one? Maybe from here ? Since I'm not having issues w/ the 26" or any other digital channels on the 46", I'm assuming I don't need a pre-amp, correct?


Also, I will try your other recommendations first. Thanks!


----------



## JoeDeth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/16213771
> 
> 
> Joe Deth:
> 
> There are differences in the quality of the new tuners verses the old tuners in sensitivity, speed and the operation of the menu software. How big and what kind is your antenna? Is it UHF only? How long and what kind is the lead in? Is the impedance matching transformer installed at the antenna? (300 to 75 ohm) Did you install the connectors on the lead in or were they factory installed? Does your antenna rotate? Sometimes 1/2" change in direction means on lot. How far away are you from the TV station?
> 
> JJK



All that techo-jargon is over my head. I'll have my wife find the install receipt for the antenna. Definitely not a rotational antenna.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeDeth* /forum/post/16214223
> 
> 
> All that techo-jargon is over my head. I'll have my wife find the install receipt for the antenna. Definitely not a rotational antenna.



It's over my head too, JoeDeth. That's why I have cable.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeDeth* /forum/post/16214223
> 
> 
> All that techo-jargon is over my head. I'll have my wife find the install receipt for the antenna. Definitely not a rotational antenna.



Joe, The main thing is that the newer-generation tuners (used on new sets designed within the last year and a half or so) are significanty better picking up over-the-air signals than the older generation tuners. I suspect your 46" set has an older generation tuner.


Other considerations would be the length of the cable from the splitter to the 46" TV (longer is lossier) and the quality of the splitter itself.


Your antenna installer should be able to help you....


Ron


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16213553
> 
> 
> The fact that Navigator has this function gives me new respect for this software. I'd like to see how that one works, but a couple of questions.
> 
> 
> On your keyword search does it go within any day of the current schedule to search, or are you restricted to searching within only one days time?
> 
> 
> Also how far out does your schedule go? Last I saw it was only 7 days.



I dunno if they updated the guide length, but it felt like 7 days still. That's another thing that miffs me but not TOO big an issue. What I REALLY miss though is the timed/untitled recordings I can set months in advance (may still be there, but I can't find it)


They keyword search is still pretty limited. You can't use the onscreen keyboard entry for it. Only the given keywords they use in the guide. So for example in my search I went Music > HD > All. The custom keyboard entry only searches show titles. But this is another one of those things that could be improved upon in future updates if TW feels it's something worth adding.


The one thing though that they did a good thing with the whole search function in Navigator is it also looks into all the VOD listings too. So I could look for CSI or CSI Miami and get the available programs on the HD Showcase VOD channel.


----------



## smoti17

Tuner adapter received on time, seems to be a well-built box (the wall wart at least has an IEC 320 C8 socket in it rather than direct mains socket prongs). But the mess behind my AV unit just got worse...


It took several cycles of reboots and USB unpluggings of both it and the Tivo to get them to talk to each other and channels to display. I *think* SDV is working correctly but it's hard to tell as I've LOST all my Digital Basic channels :-( The HD channels are all okay except UHD. Looks like a cablecard rather than an SDV issue, I think my M-card needs to be re-hit.


I've left voicemail on the SDV hotline, if I don't hear back from them in the next few hours I'm going to try calling the cablecard-clueful installer that set me up in the first place..


Sigh.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16215512
> 
> 
> Tuner adapter received on time, seems to be a well-built box (the wall wart at least has an IEC 320 C8 socket in it rather than direct mains socket prongs). But the mess behind my AV unit just got worse...
> 
> 
> It took several cycles of reboots and USB unpluggings of both it and the Tivo to get them to talk to each other and channels to display. I *think* SDV is working correctly but it's hard to tell as I've LOST all my Digital Basic channels :-( The HD channels are all okay except UHD. Looks like a cablecard rather than an SDV issue, I think my M-card needs to be re-hit.
> 
> 
> I've left voicemail on the SDV hotline, if I don't hear back from them in the next few hours I'm going to try calling the cablecard-clueful installer that set me up in the first place..
> 
> 
> Sigh.



I had some issues with the S3 but that was my fault. First I accidentally unplugged it. Then I had to reboot but I didn't reboot my eSATA properly so I had to redo that.


Then I had the communications problem you discuss. I fixed this simply by moving my network adapter away from the Tuner Adapter. I don't know why but I think the Tuner Adapter is causing some kind of interference with the TiVo adapter.


But losing my channels? Nope, never had that problem. If you can't get digital channels it's probably because your cable cards arn't working correctly, but I have no idea how that could happen.


If you still got the installers number tell him. Maybe he can call headend and just simply have them send you a hit or repair (if more then one card) and that should take care of it.


----------



## JoeDeth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16214256
> 
> 
> It's over my head too, JoeDeth. That's why I have cable.



No desire at this time to have another bill.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

So hookbill did you actually get any games in the clear last night? Channels 741 to 751 (Game1 to Game11) are showing the schedule in the clear right now. 752 to 754 (Game12 to Game14) are not coming in and this is where most of the mlb games are.


They're supposed to be a game on 752 right now if anybody can check that and let me know if there's anything there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16216458
> 
> 
> So hookbill did you actually get any games in the clear last night? Channels 741 to 751 (Game1 to Game11) are showing the schedule in the clear right now. 752 to 754 (Game12 to Game14) are not coming in and this is where most of the mlb games are.
> 
> 
> They're supposed to be a game on 752 right now if anybody can check that and let me know if there's anything there.



Yep I got games last night and right now watching KC vs Chicago on 752, its free this week.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16213553
> 
> 
> On your keyword search does it go within any day of the current schedule to search, or are you restricted to searching within only one days time?



Sorry. My earlier reply was done by cellphone (LOVE my milspec Nextel phone with collapsible iBoard.







) so I didn't get all of it I guess.


The keyword and title search both allow you to go out as far as you have guide data for. I dunno how Tivo sets it up, but on Navigator the results are first sorted by show titles in alphabetical order and then when you select a show title it'll give a sub-list of all airings of that show within the period of time you have guide data for.


So for example:

> Show A

> Show B

> Show C

> Show D

All show up in your search criteria. Select Show B and you get this:

> Show A

> Show B

> > 4/8 4:30PM

> > 4/9 4:30PM

> Show C

> Show D

Which if you select an airing time you can of course record it, go to the channel if it's current, see the show info, all the basic stuff in the main guide.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16217090
> 
> 
> Sorry. My earlier reply was done by cellphone (LOVE my milspec Nextel phone with collapsible iBoard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) so I didn't get all of it I guess.
> 
> 
> The keyword and title search both allow you to go out as far as you have guide data for. I dunno how Tivo sets it up, but on Navigator the results are first sorted by show titles in alphabetical order and then when you select a show title it'll give a sub-list of all airings of that show within the period of time you have guide data for.
> 
> 
> So for example:
> 
> > Show A
> 
> > Show B
> 
> > Show C
> 
> > Show D
> 
> All show up in your search criteria. Select Show B and you get this:
> 
> > Show A
> 
> > Show B
> 
> > > 4/8 4:30PM
> 
> > > 4/9 4:30PM
> 
> > Show C
> 
> > Show D
> 
> Which if you select an airing time you can of course record it, go to the channel if it's current, see the show info, all the basic stuff in the main guide.



Yes, that's much better then what we had with SARA. Unless it's changed, you could only search by title and you had to know at least what day it was on.


The way you describe is similar to the way TiVo works. The big differences of course is length of time, TiVo has more guide data and the Wishlist.


TiVo also has some new search features that I haven't even played around with called Swivel Search. I think it allows you to search like through Netflix, Amazon on Demand, regular cable, OTA (if you have that too) and it's kind of like surfing the internet, you can get into all kinds of stuff.


Still I'm impressed by the fact that the search feature is now at least decent.


Now if only the darn thing ever recorded....


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16217333
> 
> 
> 
> Still I'm impressed by the fact that the search feature is now at least decent.
> 
> 
> Now if only the darn thing ever recorded....



What? The darn thing records just fine.


----------



## nickdawg

Another cool thing I noticed about the new ODN 3 is now you can search titles with the letter punch in thingy, broken down by category. If you go to example: THEME>>DRAMA>>SOAP OPERA, then press B, you can search titles in that category by punching in letters. And it only results in shows from that category. EX: Entering 'HOUSE' finds no showings, since it is not a soap opera.


----------



## JoeDeth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16217562
> 
> 
> EX: Entering 'HOUSE' finds no showings, since it is not a soap opera.



After watching that tripe for several episodes, I beg to differ.


----------



## smoti17

Well, the cablecard-clueful installer refused to help me until I'd put a call into customer support.


So after an hour on the phone with these guys, about 10 minutes of which I get to speak to the "cablecard company guy", who seems clueful and helpful except for being under the illusion that "all channels above 100 are digital" (oh yeah), I learn:

- there was some issue with SDV boxes yesterday that caused them to block all channels across NE Ohio.

- for no explainable reason someone had deleted Digital Basic from the cablecard in my package yesterday. I guess I'll never know if this was anything to do with SDV, but a bit of a coincidence.

Eventually they fixed it, the SDV box seems to work.


So, I have my service back, and have avoided having to write to Mr Fry by a whisker.

Here comes the brave new world of SDV....


[& what is it about call centers that turns me into Willie the Janitor...?-: ]


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16217717
> 
> 
> Well, the cablecard-clueful installer refused to help me until I'd put a call into customer support.
> 
> 
> So after an hour on the phone with these guys, about 10 minutes of which I get to speak to the "cablecard company guy", who seems clueful and helpful except for being under the illusion that "all channels above 100 are digital" (oh yeah), I learn:
> 
> - there was some issue with SDV boxes yesterday that caused them to block all channels across NE Ohio.
> 
> - for no explainable reason someone had deleted Digital Basic from the cablecard in my package yesterday. I guess I'll never know if this was anything to do with SDV, but a bit of a coincidence.
> 
> Eventually they fixed it, the SDV box seems to work.
> 
> 
> So, I have my service back, and have avoided having to write to Mr Fry by a whisker.
> 
> Here comes the brave new world of SDV....
> 
> 
> [& what is it about call centers that turns me into Willie the Janitor...?-: ]



SDV doesn't start for two days. I had no issues with digital channels. This sounds like bull pucky to me. By your location I know you do not have SDV, and you are on SARA software.


Someone deleting digital cable from your services, that seems more likely the answer. Why they picked on you, lord only knows. But a normal CSR should have been able to spot that without you calling the tech.


See the problem is that CSR's know there is something called "TiVo" and cable cards out there but they are clueless as to what it is they do, like the idiot I spoke to that told me "you have to have one of our digital boxes to receive HD." Yeah, right what do you think cable cards do then?


Edit: Technically speaking that guy was right about cable being digital after 100, any analog channels are just mirror channels.


----------



## hookbill

I just checked the 4250 to see if in fact SDV has been active in ex Adelphia land. It doesn't appear to be. Box still shows ready but no activity going on STOHD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16217782
> 
> 
> See the problem is that CSR's know there is something called "TiVo" and cable cards out there but they are clueless as to what it is they do, like the idiot I spoke to that told me "you have to have one of our digital boxes to receive HD." Yeah, right what do you think cable cards do then?



Did you tell him: "your boxes have the same cable cards as my Tivo in them"?






































What a clueless fool!! Even their own equipment now has cable cards. The box does nothing, the cable cards do it!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16217986
> 
> 
> Did you tell him: "your boxes have the same cable cards as my Tivo in them"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a clueless fool!! Even their own equipment now has cable cards. The box does nothing, the cable cards do it!



As soon as he said that I asked to speak to another representative. He happily dumped me back into the que.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16200433
> 
> 
> Yeah, all things considered, it does have decent PQ. Although most of the programming seems rather lame (Mr.Ed???) I think the concept makes sense for all parties. OTA Viewers get a bit more choice, local stations have more content to offer and sell ad space for, and the source (MGM) gets to dust off their old crap and squeeze a few more $$$ out of old shows and movies.
> 
> 
> It's kinda like a syndicated nat'l network. Let's hope other studios and content owners follow suit and we might actually have *decent* sub-channel programming instead of the worthless weather subs.



There is one program missing from This TV that is seen on virtually every other cable network and OTA station: PAID PROGRAMMING!


Kudos to THIS TV for providing a unique schedule that is 24/7 of ENTERTAINMENT!


----------



## JJkizak

Well I hope they don't find the guy that does the Sham Wow stuff. I wonder where they found him? Call now cause I can't do this all day. Hey camera guy. The Germans make good stuff.

JJK


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeDeth* /forum/post/16214207
> 
> 
> I like the idea of the broadband amp. Recommend one? Maybe from here ? Since I'm not having issues w/ the 26" or any other digital channels on the 46", I'm assuming I don't need a pre-amp, correct?
> 
> 
> Also, I will try your other recommendations first. Thanks!



Joe, there are generally two causes of DTV reception failures - inadequate signal-to-noise ratio and multipath reflections. Inadequate signal is easier to fix - just stick an amp between the antenna and the receiver. Multipath interference requires a (more) directional antenna to correct it. The receiver that's having trouble with some channels could be from either cause. Tuners that are older than 5th Generation have more trouble coping with multipath interference, as the algorithims for cancelling out the reflections aren't as good.


At any rate I'm hoping that it's just low signal level. The 8db 4-port amp looks like a good compromise between bandwidth, gain and number of outputs.


Good luck!


----------



## Vchat20

That's another question that I don't think anyone answered and is still on my mind for the OTA buffs here: Would I see a notable improvement by adding a balun between my antenna and the coax line feeding my tv? So far it's just been the center conductor of the coax crudely spliced together with the 300ohm balanced feed coming off the antenna. And while the coax being used is fairly long (has to reach from the far end of the attic to the opposite end of the house and down two flights of stairs to the tv), I never got much better a signal than my crude 4ft coax with the end stripped as a coat hanger-ish antenna. Maybe 5% signal improvement tops even trying to pull in distant/weak stations like 33/WYTV or 45/WNEO.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Got the games to work on my "new" SA box. They won't show up on the motos in ex-Comcast land.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16219540
> 
> 
> Got the games to work on my "new" SA box. They won't show up on the motos in ex-Comcast land.



And you wonder if you should switch out those motos?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16219386
> 
> 
> That's another question that I don't think anyone answered and is still on my mind for the OTA buffs here: Would I see a notable improvement by adding a balun between my antenna and the coax line feeding my tv? So far it's just been the center conductor of the coax crudely spliced together with the 300ohm balanced feed coming off the antenna. And while the coax being used is fairly long (has to reach from the far end of the attic to the opposite end of the house and down two flights of stairs to the tv), I never got much better a signal than my crude 4ft coax with the end stripped as a coat hanger-ish antenna. Maybe 5% signal improvement tops even trying to pull in distant/weak stations like 33/WYTV or 45/WNEO.



It couldn't hurt. Eliminating any impedance bumps in the downlead can result in reduced return-loss reflections, meaning more energy delivered to the set.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16218826
> 
> 
> There is one program missing from This TV that is seen on virtually every other cable network and OTA station: PAID PROGRAMMING!
> 
> 
> Kudos to THIS TV for providing a unique schedule that is 24/7 of ENTERTAINMENT!



I haven't watched it enough to notice, but that is good news.


I really think Look TV is proving there is an opportunity for any broadcaster (or wanna be) to become their own nationally syndicated network utilizing the now available sub-ch's in OTA-DTV.


We'll see if it all works out and lets hope they can sell the ad space (nationally and locally) to make it financially viable going forward. I'll bet if it is even reasonably successful we'll see some more pop up down the road. Ex: I'd bet networks like TBS and USA would jump at the opportunity to be on OTA nationally.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16221419
> 
> 
> We'll see if it all works out and lets hope they can sell the ad space (nationally and locally) to make it financially viable going forward. I'll bet if it is even reasonably successful we'll see some more pop up down the road. Ex: I'd bet networks like TBS and USA would jump at the opportunity to be on OTA nationally.



I don't think so.


Really this is no more then what cable channel TVLand has done for years, repackaging old shows. True, HD format but I don't see it as being the "trend" because channels like this get money from cable on top of advertising.


TBS and USA OTA nationally? Well, TBS started out as WTBS then went off the air completely. Why do you suppose they did that? And USA is owned by NBC so I can guarantee that it will stay an exclusive cable network. You could say the same thing about ESPN and you know that will never happen.


I don't believe any longer that the majority of houses still receive just OTA. I have nothing to support this statement but it seems everybody you run into has either satellite or cable.


I'm all in favor of OTA people getting all the programming they can get with this technology, but I think "quality" is subject to debate when we look at what this channel offers. The classic movies? Absolutely. Mr. Ed?


Ohhhhhhh Wilber!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16221602
> 
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> 
> Really this is no more then what cable channel TVLand has done for years, repackaging old shows. True, HD format but I don't see it as being the "trend" because channels like this get money from cable on top of advertising.
> 
> 
> TBS and USA OTA nationally? Well, TBS started out as WTBS then went off the air completely. Why do you suppose they did that? And USA is owned by NBC so I can guarantee that it will stay an exclusive cable network. You could say the same thing about ESPN and you know that will never happen.
> 
> 
> I don't believe any longer that the majority of houses still receive just OTA. I have nothing to support this statement but it seems everybody you run into has either satellite or cable.
> 
> 
> I'm all in favor of OTA people getting all the programming they can get with this technology, but I think "quality" is subject to debate when we look at what this channel offers. The classic movies? Absolutely. Mr. Ed?
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhhh Wilber!



Yeah, very true. And This TV may well die, who knows.

But your examples of USA and ESPN would be perfect examples of where the big networks could offer some of their non-OTA natl stations via sub-ch's to their affiliates. Anything but the worthless weather subs! Have I mentioned I don't like these????










I have no idea on the number of OTA only viewers remaining, but I am certain it is in the millions. My OTA usage is very little these days as I now get all the locals in HD via cable (save the subs). I only went OTA a few years ago cuz WOW Cable was then only offering the locals (and not WBNX or PBS) in HD plus a couple other stations like TBS and USA (I think). But for the $6 per month to get those lowly few ch's in HD plus a few more $$ to rent an HD PVR just did not make sense. So I invested less in an outdoor antenna and a great Digital STB tuner (plus it was a good excuse to buy another toy).


----------



## hookbill

I recorded the Dodger game last night using best quality on the digital channel MLB EXTRA INNINGS. A 4 hour broadcast took 4.52 GB of space on my hard drive, compared to 1 hour of analog (Rescue Me) 3.59 GB.


But just to show that digital doesn't always mean better, the quality of the baseball game(lower number best) showed a whopping .89. That is extremely poor, out of my 83 recordings I don't have a single show with a quality even reaching .30. Rescue me came in at .28 and you can compare that to Law & Order SVU which came in at .21 on WKYC HD.


Amazingly very high in the quality is Smallville WBNX HD at just .13 and also amazing Saving Grace TNTHD at .15. Lost, Life on Mars WEWS HD not so surprisingly show an excellent .14


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16219386
> 
> 
> That's another question that I don't think anyone answered and is still on my mind for the OTA buffs here: Would I see a notable improvement by adding a balun between my antenna and the coax line feeding my tv? So far it's just been the center conductor of the coax crudely spliced together with the 300ohm balanced feed coming off the antenna. And while the coax being used is fairly long (has to reach from the far end of the attic to the opposite end of the house and down two flights of stairs to the tv), I never got much better a signal than my crude 4ft coax with the end stripped as a coat hanger-ish antenna. Maybe 5% signal improvement tops even trying to pull in distant/weak stations like 33/WYTV or 45/WNEO.



Vchat, I am curious as to why you call 45/WNEO a distant/weak station.. they are at 500 kW and have a huge coverage area :

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1274459.html


----------



## nickdawg

I have to agree with Hookbill. TV is not moving towards the direction of OTA, especially since viewers are moving towards cable. Cable offers series development with better budgets(in some cases) and almost always more 'freedom' with language and content(think _Rescue Me_ on F/X vs. FOX). And with HD now, subchannels seem even less possible. For example, I could get USA OTA as an add on channel, xx-3 for free, but I'd still rather pay for a TV service that gives it to me in HD.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16222289
> 
> 
> I have to agree with Hookbill. TV is not moving towards the direction of OTA, especially since viewers are moving towards cable. Cable offers series development with better budgets(in some cases) and almost always more 'freedom' with language and content(think _Rescue Me_ on F/X vs. FOX). And with HD now, subchannels seem even less possible. For example, I could get USA OTA as an add on channel, xx-3 for free, but I'd still rather pay for a TV service that gives it to me in HD.



Oh I agree OTA is a shrinking market, to be sure. But with millions of viewers still using solely OTA it seems like a rather simple way for network owned cable/sat ch's to reach a wider audience. The affiliates already receive the natl feeds via sat, the networks already send the natl feeds via sat (for rebroadcast via OTA, cable, sat) so I'd guess they could piggyback another feed like a USA ch. Then the locals get more use out of their available sub ch's.


Independents like 43 & 55 would have to get additional feeds from a third party, like the MGM This TV "network".


I know *nothing* about broadcasting or the technicalities involved to do this, but if lowly little WUAB 43 can pull it off certainly the networks and their affiliates could do the same.


I'm a cable TV fan and couldn't go without the broad selection of ch's I have now.

If for no other reason: more competition to keep the sat/cable operators on their toes.

Just thinking outside the "box"...get it?


----------



## CoasterGuy2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16219622
> 
> 
> And you wonder if you should switch out those motos?



You would think. I tried recording a game on that SA box last night and of course it didn't work. Isn't this your biggest complaint about these boxes?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16223217
> 
> 
> You would think. I tried recording a game on that SA box last night and of course it didn't work. Isn't this your biggest complaint about these boxes?



Yes, it is. Welcome to the wonderful world of SA.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16223217
> 
> 
> You would think. I tried recording a game on that SA box last night and of course it didn't work. Isn't this your biggest complaint about these boxes?



Is the box authorized for service?


Do you subscribe to DVR service?


Is the box 'bricked'? I had this problem after a software download, the DVR functions were not downloaded/activated, so I had to call TWC. That might be the case. Quit blaming the box. The box is just a box.


Cable card issue?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16224410
> 
> 
> Is the box authorized for service?
> 
> 
> Do you subscribe to DVR service?
> 
> 
> Is the box 'bricked'? I had this problem after a software download, the DVR functions were not downloaded/activated, so I had to call TWC. That might be the case. Quit blaming the box. The box is just a box.
> 
> 
> Cable card issue?



nickdawg, don't make excuses. If he didn't have DVR service how would it OK a recording, and if it does do that then that's a problem in itself. And this is an SA 8300, no cable cards in it. He doesn't have the HDC''.


He's just experiencing what many, many people have experienced with this unit.


----------



## smoti17

Jeanie called me today to check if everything was okay, so that's a nice touch.


As to whether additional sub-channels could be viable, this approach has been pretty successful in the UK on the DVB-T Freeview platform, where there are about 20 additional national clear OTA (digital SD) channels. OTOH there is less cable, more satellite, more public TV, and less HD there, so the market is somewhat different.


I would think with some of the newer encoding/modulation technologies (H.264, MPEG4, QPSK) it should be possible to put more than one HD channel on a single UHF carrier.


----------



## bassguitarman

The balun should make a huge difference. If it doesnt there is something wrong with the antenna or the coax.


----------



## nickdawg

Why isn't last night's _Rescue Me_ on HD On Demand yet? There is a F/X category with several movies and episodes of Damages, but still no Rescue Me. Will it ever be on this channel? They have posted Nip/Tuck and Damages episodes in the past, why not Rescue Me? Or do I have to wait until after May 26, 2009(when F/X HD is added)?


----------



## nickdawg

Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 3:35PM.


To whom it may concern at WEWS TV in technical/engineering department, take a look at what is being broadcast on WEWS HD, this is the correct way to broadcast a digital TV channel. Notice that the edge of the picture touches both the top and bottom of the picture on 4:3 content and 16:9 full screen content. Notice that there is NOT a 3/4 inch BLACK BAR at the bottom of the screen(as there has been the past few weeks). Please keep it this way. I have not found one other HDTV channel(or even a SDTV channel) that consistently broadcasts with 3/4 inch of unnecessary black space at the bottom of the screen only. Thank you for finally fixing this problem and I hope it stays fixed this time.


-A Satisfied Viewer


----------



## hookbill

Tomorrow is suppose to be the start of SDV in SARA land. If in fact it does start tomorrow as scheduled, and I hope it does I can check out my equipment and make sure everything is running properly. If it is, I'm going to order MLB Extra Innings, even though I feel we are getting ripped off.


I sent TW an email complaining about the no HD on a premium service. TW's response? No plans to add, however email will be added to requests, blah blah blah.


My brother is watching the free preview and he saw it in HD in friggen Nashville TN. But here in Cleveland we get the shaft.


Sorry about that but nickdawgs crying and whining put me in a mood.


----------



## nickdawg

Wait, what? You mean all 10 or 15 of the MLB channels in HDTV?


LMAO!






































Those better not be coming until 2010, after all the other WATCHABLE, REGULAR HDTV channels have been added to the lineup.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16225487
> 
> 
> Wait, what? You mean all 10 or 15 of the MLB channels in HDTV?
> 
> 
> LMAO!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those better not be coming until 2010, after all the other WATCHABLE, REGULAR HDTV channels have been added to the lineup.



Nope, it doesn't work like that.


If you tune to MLB Extra innings now, any channel that has a schedule up you will see game channels, like 11, 12 etc. All the other areas also have a HD channel. On this ONE channel is where the HD games appear, i.e. the last night the Dodgers were on channel 12 = 752 and also on the HD channel that we don't get.


Don't worry nickdawg I'm not trying to steal all the bandwith. I'm just asking for 1 channel, just like all the other premium channels give.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16225636
> 
> 
> Nope, it doesn't work like that.
> 
> 
> If you tune to MLB Extra innings now, any channel that has a schedule up you will see game channels, like 11, 12 etc. All the other areas also have a HD channel. On this ONE channel is where the HD games appear, i.e. the last night the Dodgers were on channel 12 = 752 and also on the HD channel that we don't get.
> 
> 
> Don't worry nickdawg I'm not trying to steal all the bandwith. I'm just asking for 1 channel, just like all the other premium channels give.



Ahhh, I see. I'm clueless, didn't even know this thing was free this week! Thanks for "thinking like I think, TWC"!!
























One channel for HD works. And now I agree with you(again). Why don't they have a MLB HD channel, especially when we have TWO non-existent FSN HD channels.


I was getting worried that TWC was going to make that '100 HD channel' quota by stacking the deck with crap(as D* and E* both did). I was worried about seeing "Showtime 10 West" in HD before some real, basic cable channels.


EDIT: Plus I am very, very irritated with this company. I've even considered diving head first into the unknown world of "AT&T Advanced TV" as an alternative to TWC.





















My BS tank is about at maximum full.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Yeah. I have DVR capability and have been using one for the past 3 years.I was able to record everything so far this week without issues, even a couple of series. It just failed to get the game last night.


I'll let you know what happens tonight. Same time and same channel scheduled.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16225724
> 
> 
> Ahhh, I see. I'm clueless, didn't even know this thing was free this week! Thanks for "thinking like I think, TWC"!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One channel for HD works. And now I agree with you(again). Why don't they have a MLB HD channel, especially when we have TWO non-existent FSN HD channels.
> 
> 
> I was getting worried that TWC was going to make that '100 HD channel' quota by stacking the deck with crap(as D* and E* both did). I was worried about seeing "Showtime 10 West" in HD before some real, basic cable channels.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Plus I am very, very irritated with this company. I've even considered diving head first into the unknown world of "AT&T Advanced TV" as an alternative to TWC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My BS tank is about at maximum full.



You do realize that with their "Advanced" tv you can only record/watch 1 HD show at a time.


Also are you sure you're in an area that has it? Is there an ugly box somewhere in your neighborhood? If there isn't you ain't getting it.


Keep in mind that AT&T and TW were the powers that pushed that law through to make it possible for Advanced Television. AT&T is also very evil.


Back to the baseball thing they reminded me the MLB Net is going to be in HD at the end of the month. Yes, and that's good but it still isn't giving us what everybody else is getting for subscribing to Extra Innings. And they are charging the same price.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16225889
> 
> 
> Yeah. I have DVR capability and have been using one for the past 3 years.I was able to record everything so far this week without issues, even a couple of series. It just failed to get the game last night.
> 
> 
> I'll let you know what happens tonight. Same time and same channel scheduled.



That's problem, you never know. If you record a lot like I do then your chances of missing programming being recorded increase. Also don't put an eSATA on it, that really causes it to screw up.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16225066
> 
> 
> Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 3:35PM.
> 
> 
> To whom it may concern at WEWS TV in technical/engineering department, take a look at what is being broadcast on WEWS HD, this is the correct way to broadcast a digital TV channel. Notice that the edge of the picture touches both the top and bottom of the picture on 4:3 content and 16:9 full screen content. Notice that there is NOT a 3/4 inch BLACK BAR at the bottom of the screen(as there has been the past few weeks). Please keep it this way. I have not found one other HDTV channel(or even a SDTV channel) that consistently broadcasts with 3/4 inch of unnecessary black space at the bottom of the screen only. Thank you for finally fixing this problem and I hope it stays fixed this time.
> 
> 
> -A Satisfied Viewer



The *ONLY* time I saw WEWS have a picture that touches the bottom is when they put up a crawling message. It my be at the bottom of your screen, but whenever I do the "gray bar" test on my set-up WEWS still has the black bar. It may not be as large as it once was, bit it was still there last time I checked.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16219386
> 
> 
> That's another question that I don't think anyone answered and is still on my mind for the OTA buffs here: Would I see a notable improvement by adding a balun between my antenna and the coax line feeding my tv? So far it's just been the center conductor of the coax crudely spliced together with the 300ohm balanced feed coming off the antenna. And while the coax being used is fairly long (has to reach from the far end of the attic to the opposite end of the house and down two flights of stairs to the tv), I never got much better a signal than my crude 4ft coax with the end stripped as a coat hanger-ish antenna. Maybe 5% signal improvement tops even trying to pull in distant/weak stations like 33/WYTV or 45/WNEO.



No balun









You ask for trouble if you leave bare coax exposed. The whole idea of coax to shield the conductor from interference. You risk "ingress" from unwanted signals (i.e. multipath, the kiss of death for digital) and egress (loss of the desired signal by transmitting part of the signal back over the air that otherwise would go to your receiver).


Just be sure that the balun is rated for the antena you use. Some baluns are VHF only. You want to be sure it can handle both VHF and UHF ( rated to at least 700 mhz.)


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/16221992
> 
> 
> Vchat, I am curious as to why you call 45/WNEO a distant/weak station.. they are at 500 kW and have a huge coverage area :
> 
> http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1274459.html



Actually, it was mostly in comparison to what I am getting now. With my current setup and the distance to the transmitter, it is a distant station at least for me. Though I have to say it has greatly improved since they bumped the Tx power. Went from not getting any signal whatsoever and sometimes not picking it up on a channel scan to now getting around 45-50% signal. But it's still well under par to keep dropouts at bay.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16226238
> 
> 
> No balun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ask for trouble if you leave bare coax exposed. The whole idea of coax to shield the conductor from interference. You risk "ingress" from unwanted signals (i.e. multipath, the kiss of death for digital) and egress (loss of the desired signal by transmitting part of the signal back over the air that otherwise would go to your receiver).
> 
> 
> Just be sure that the balun is rated for the antena you use. Some baluns are VHF only. You want to be sure it can handle both VHF and UHF ( rated to at least 700 mhz.)



*nod* That's what I was kinda hoping. I just need to get my butt down to the local ratshack and pick one up along with some F connectors to crimp back onto this cable.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16226083
> 
> 
> That's problem, you never know. If you record a lot like I do then your chances of missing programming being recorded increase. Also don't put an eSATA on it, that really causes it to screw up.



There is also some kind of an eSATA problem with ODN3, which our area has now. Doesn't bother me, as I don't use eSATA.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16226188
> 
> 
> The *ONLY* time I saw WEWS have a picture that touches the bottom is when they put up a crawling message. It my be at the bottom of your screen, but whenever I do the "gray bar" test on my set-up WEWS still has the black bar. It may not be as large as it once was, bit it was still there last time I checked.



I checked the "gray bar" on my other TV, it looks OK now. They must have fixed it even more during the day.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16226047
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that AT&T and TW were the powers that pushed that law through to make it possible for Advanced Television. AT&T is also very evil.



IDK, it gets more and more tempting...


# of problems with my AT&T Internet: 0 (ok, technically 1 if you count the time I had to re-enter the modem access code for some reason)


# of problems with TWC: too large to post on screen.


----------



## RonOhio

I started getting all the channels I should get my TA's. They must of flipped a switch some time today.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/16227282
> 
> 
> I started getting all the channels I should get my TA's. They must of flipped a switch some time today.



Interesting. Did you call anybody or just let it slide? You are in TW native. You're already on SDV. SDV starts for SARA areas tomorrow. I'm anxious to see how this plays out.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16227373
> 
> 
> Interesting. Did you call anybody or just let it slide? You are in TW native. You're already on SDV. SDV starts for SARA areas tomorrow. I'm anxious to see how this plays out.



I called about six times since Friday but gave up. I have a service call for Friday morning I can cancel that now.


----------



## nickdawg

Do the channels work?


I have one of their damn boxes and the damn channels don't work.


Maybe I should get a Tivo!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16227500
> 
> 
> Do the channels work?
> 
> 
> I have one of their damn boxes and the damn channels don't work.
> 
> 
> Maybe I should get a Tivo!



You'd just find something about TiVo to complain about.


It is rather ironic isn't it?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16227602
> 
> 
> You'd just find something about TiVo to complain about.
> 
> 
> It is rather ironic isn't it?



Nope. I said it because I feel like cutting my stay with TWC short, and Tivo would be useless with any other service, other than OTA HDTV. Which is exactly why I'm so against Tivo and their 'lifetime' service contract.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16227772
> 
> 
> Nope. I said it because I feel like cutting my stay with TWC short, and Tivo would be useless with any other service, other than OTA HDTV. Which is exactly why I'm so against Tivo and their 'lifetime' service contract.



I'm not going to debate that although I don't think you fully understand the lifetime offer. Go to AT&T and please let us know how that works out for you.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Well. The recording started at least. After that it was all downhill. Started skipping around. I'm in the first inning for 10 sec. 2nd for a minute. Then the third and fifth. Then frozen. Wow. Sound like a bad hard drive to you guys?


So I flipped to live for the last two innings and I could definitely see what you were saying about picture quality hookbill. Lots of breaking up, both video and a little audio. No wonder it rated so high (low). There's no way I'd pay for this quality if it was like this the whole year (not to mention they don't give us a discount for not having all the HD broadcasts live DirecTV.


If mlb.tv is better than last year and could let me start a game from the beginning an hour or so after it starts (since I'm in class 4 nights a week), that would be the way to go.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16227948
> 
> 
> Well. The recording started at least. After that it was all downhill. Started skipping around. I'm in the first inning for 10 sec. 2nd for a minute. Then the third and fifth. Then frozen. Wow. Sound like a bad hard drive to you guys?
> 
> 
> So I flipped to live for the last two innings and I could definitely see what you were saying about picture quality hookbill. Lots of breaking up, both video and a little audio. No wonder it rated so high (low). There's no way I'd pay for this quality if it was like this the whole year (not to mention they don't give us a discount for not having all the HD broadcasts live DirecTV.
> 
> 
> If mlb.tv is better than last year and could let me start a game from the beginning an hour or so after it starts (since I'm in class 4 nights a week), that would be the way to go.



Do you have SDV?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16227923
> 
> 
> I'm not going to debate that although I don't think you fully understand the lifetime offer. Go to AT&T and please let us know how that works out for you.



I have to agree. And this coming from someone who is perfectly happy with his Navgator box (*gasp*). At this point in time for subscription tv services, you either have 'the traditional cable company', AT&T's Uverse garbage, FiOS (I'm not sure if they've went full IPTV yet or are still using classic QAM services. In the latter case, Tivo is usable just the same as TWC, Comcast, or their ilk.), or Satellite.


AT&T is pretty much a non starter unless you are REALLY desperate or just retarded. Unless FiOS goes full IPTV, the current generation of Tivos are capable of being used on either FiOS or current cable company offerings just as easily. Satellite is obviously out of the game, BUT (and this is a huge BUT and more theorhetical than anything) if DirecTV or Dish bring out their PC tuner offerings for media center devices (DirecTV's is usb based, Dish's looks to be a classic VIP DVR but act like a Homerun box through the LAN), Tivo has the possibility of adding Sat support with the current HD boxes (if they support mpeg4. I forget if the newest models do or not. If not, I'm sure they have one in the works).


Tivo's lifetime service package is actually a good deal unless you are like nickdawg here who has a major vendetta against the cablecos or your only option is Satellite service out in the boonies. You can take your Tivo to any cableco and it'll work (for the most part barring any stupidities.) so you could move like 12 times in a year and still keep your box, the recordings, season recordings, various settings, etc..


I've said it before: I'd LOVE to get a Tivo and get rid of these nasty boxes. But my current budget isn't anywhere NEAR forgiving enough for the ~$200 purchase and either an extra monthly fee or another $100 or so for the lifetime sub. And a somewhat lesser issue being the lack of proprietary features like the Caller ID (though I'm sure the Tivo is capable, TWC's offering is just different enough from a technical standpoint to not be the same thing), VOD, PPV, and possibly future applications they decide to add on.


In reality though, I'd chop off an arm and a leg and my left nut to have a Windows 7 based Media Center with digital cable and SDV working, but that literally costs an arm and a leg anyways (considering the asses at Cablelabs have required you to buy a pre-built ~$2000 box from the likes of HP or Dell to be able to use a cablecard. No homebuilt media centers.)


----------



## CoasterGuy2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228185
> 
> 
> Do you have SDV?



I doubt it, but I can always check for it. On what page of the diagnostic would I find that?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16228409
> 
> 
> I doubt it, but I can always check for it. On what page of the diagnostic would I find that?



Is it a SA box with Navigator?


If so, hold the select button on the remote until the (envelope) light on the front panel blinks. When the envelope light is blinking, press the arrow down button. Use Page +/- to change pages until you find one that says Switch Digital Video. I believe it is Page 7 on ODN.


----------



## Vchat20

Also, one little tidbit I read on the new Samsung boxes at least it is stated on the website is that you can upload new software to the box through a USB flash drive. VERY ponderous. Now we just need someone who is smart enough to write something for it that works with the OCAP system. If it's really possible that way, it would be /EPIC/. I would love to see a tru2way OS project on sourceforge someday full with CVS access and GPL licensing.


Though with our luck, we can kiss that idea goodbye.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16228324
> 
> 
> I have to agree. And this coming from someone who is perfectly happy with his Navgator box (*gasp*). At this point in time for subscription tv services, you either have 'the traditional cable company', AT&T's Uverse garbage, FiOS (I'm not sure if they've went full IPTV yet or are still using classic QAM services. In the latter case, Tivo is usable just the same as TWC, Comcast, or their ilk.), or Satellite.
> 
> 
> AT&T is pretty much a non starter unless you are REALLY desperate or just retarded. Unless FiOS goes full IPTV, the current generation of Tivos are capable of being used on either FiOS or current cable company offerings just as easily. Satellite is obviously out of the game, BUT (and this is a huge BUT and more theorhetical than anything) if DirecTV or Dish bring out their PC tuner offerings for media center devices (DirecTV's is usb based, Dish's looks to be a classic VIP DVR but act like a Homerun box through the LAN), Tivo has the possibility of adding Sat support with the current HD boxes (if they support mpeg4. I forget if the newest models do or not. If not, I'm sure they have one in the works).
> 
> 
> Tivo's lifetime service package is actually a good deal unless you are like nickdawg here who has a major vendetta against the cablecos or your only option is Satellite service out in the boonies. You can take your Tivo to any cableco and it'll work (for the most part barring any stupidities.) so you could move like 12 times in a year and still keep your box, the recordings, season recordings, various settings, etc..
> 
> 
> I've said it before: I'd LOVE to get a Tivo and get rid of these nasty boxes. But my current budget isn't anywhere NEAR forgiving enough for the ~$200 purchase and either an extra monthly fee or another $100 or so for the lifetime sub. And a somewhat lesser issue being the lack of proprietary features like the Caller ID (though I'm sure the Tivo is capable, TWC's offering is just different enough from a technical standpoint to not be the same thing), VOD, PPV, and possibly future applications they decide to add on.
> 
> 
> In reality though, I'd chop off an arm and a leg and my left nut to have a Windows 7 based Media Center with digital cable and SDV working, but that literally costs an arm and a leg anyways (considering the asses at Cablelabs have required you to buy a pre-built ~$2000 box from the likes of HP or Dell to be able to use a cablecard. No homebuilt media centers.)



FWIW there is no way that cable can beat TiVo's VOD. Netflix alone would do it but add Amazon on demand and there is far more choice then cable.


I doubt TiVo will ever have caller iid.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228423
> 
> 
> Is it a SA box with Navigator?
> 
> 
> If so, hold the select button on the remote until the (envelope) light on the front panel blinks. When the envelope light is blinking, press the arrow down button. Use Page +/- to change pages until you find one that says Switch Digital Video. I believe it is Page 7 on ODN.



CRAP! It's Page 8. I was almost there!







Page 5 is where you can determine if a channel is SDV too, usually the channel name has "SDV" in it.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16228436
> 
> 
> FWIW there is no way that cable can beat TiVo's VOD. Netflix alone would do it but add Amazon on demand and there is far more choice then cable.
> 
> 
> I doubt TiVo will ever have caller iid.



FWIW, Tivo has had caller ID for some time in certain forms. Didn't the original boxes have it through the integrated modem? Do the newest models still have that connection? There's also third party apps that do caller ID over the LAN (In particular there is one called YAC: http://sunflowerhead.com/software/yac/ where you have one 'server' on a windows machine hooked up to a phone line and then it distributes it to other windows machines with the software and there's also a Tivo app for it.)


Yeah, I have no doubt Tivo's VOD offerings can beat out cable's in a landslide. And if they can add support for Youtube's HQ and HD videos, even moreso. But there are still some things (although few and far between) that are on TWC's VOD selection that I doubt Tivo's offerings can match.


Does Tivo have anything like game apps like card games, puzzle games, simple stuff like that? Probably a stupid feature to some, but something that I actually miss from Passport that -hopefully- Navigator will get back sometime soon.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16228427
> 
> 
> Also, one little tidbit I read on the new Samsung boxes at least it is stated on the website is that you can upload new software to the box through a USB flash drive. VERY ponderous. Now we just need someone who is smart enough to write something for it that works with the OCAP system. If it's really possible that way, it would be /EPIC/. I would love to see a tru2way OS project on sourceforge someday full with CVS access and GPL licensing.
> 
> 
> Though with our luck, we can kiss that idea goodbye.



I have no doubt that some people right here on this site could write a better program than TWC's Navigator or SARA or Passport.


I'd like to order MY software: something that LOOKS like SARA but WORKS like Tivo. That way it's super fast without all the bells and whistles of fancy looking menus.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16228436
> 
> 
> FWIW there is no way that cable can beat TiVo's VOD. Netflix alone would do it but add Amazon on demand and there is far more choice then cable.
> 
> 
> I doubt TiVo will ever have caller iid.



Doesn't Tivo have a phone input for software/program guide downloads? If it does, then there should be an on-screen caller ID. Even the D* box I had in 2002 had that option. Except I don't have caller id.


And TWC's proprietary POS is another thing I hold against them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16227948
> 
> 
> Well. The recording started at least. After that it was all downhill. Started skipping around. I'm in the first inning for 10 sec. 2nd for a minute. Then the third and fifth. Then frozen. Wow. Sound like a bad hard drive to you guys?
> 
> 
> So I flipped to live for the last two innings and I could definitely see what you were saying about picture quality hookbill. Lots of breaking up, both video and a little audio. No wonder it rated so high (low). There's no way I'd pay for this quality if it was like this the whole year (not to mention they don't give us a discount for not having all the HD broadcasts live DirecTV.
> 
> 
> If mlb.tv is better than last year and could let me start a game from the beginning an hour or so after it starts (since I'm in class 4 nights a week), that would be the way to go.



I'm not trying to ki k the SA8300 but what I saw delivered by tivo did not have the symptoms you described. That is typical of what I saw with SA8300, SARA.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Well, from all the crap I can see in there, I think I can at least understand that the software version is think it was 2.4 something MDN (I assume that's different than ODN). The number at the top said 6.4 something. Is there any place where it'll just flat out tell me if it's SARA or Navigator or Passport without rebooting the whole box?


I have a switched digital broadcast page that is 21 of 28. Remember I'm in Avon Lake (old comcast area with i think lots of bandwidth). I'm having no issues getting STOHD if that helps you.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

So I think I figured it out. Little more research leads me to thinking MDN means Navigator. Ok, so where do I go from there?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16228536
> 
> 
> Well, from all the crap I can see in there, I think I can at least understand that the software version is think it was 2.4 something MDN (I assume that's different than ODN). The number at the top said 6.4 something. Is there any place where it'll just flat out tell me if it's SARA or Navigator or Passport without rebooting the whole box?
> 
> 
> I have a switched digital broadcast page that is 21 of 28. Remember I'm in Avon Lake (old comcast area with i think lots of bandwidth). I'm having no issues getting STOHD if that helps you.



If it says MDN, that means you have Navigator(and should have SDV already). The current version is 2.4.4-16 (which is the same version I have).


Because it says MDN, that means you have Navigator, and it is a non-cable card box. MDN = Mystro Digital Navigator, the version for existing boxes.


I would try rebooting the box anyway. Then re-check those baseball channels and try another recording. It might be a correctable box error. If not, it might be a SDV problem, like the one I had. In that case, I have no clue what is causing it.


----------



## hookbill

Coaster let's keep it simple. Do you have a real ugly purple guide? That's SARA.


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Looks like this. Just haven't stretched it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...3&d=1238799097 


And yes. I stole this from Time Warner Navigator Thread.


----------



## hookbill

Chat tivo has never had caller I'd.


Your point on VOD goes without question as a cable advantage.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, when doing comparisons maybe you can use my post back here for visual confirmation: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=18162 


Coaster: If you can tell us which guide you have inside that post, it'd be great.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16228602
> 
> 
> Looks like this. Just haven't stretched it.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...3&d=1238799097
> 
> 
> And yes. I stole this from Time Warner Navigator Thread.



Ok. That's a good start. Now what model is your box? Does the model number have an HDC on the end or just HD?


----------



## CoasterGuy2

Definetly like these ones. Running an 8300HD.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6046 


But my diagnostic screen looks different and there is 28 pages to it.


Looking through those, are you guys saying you didn't have the ability to prioritize your recorded series?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16228634
> 
> 
> Actually, when doing comparisons maybe you can use my post back here for visual confirmation: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=18162
> 
> 
> Coaster: If you can tell us which guide you have inside that post, it'd be great.



Also, just an update I added screenshots directly in the post for both ODN v2 and ODN v3 so you can compare between SARA, Passport, Passport Echo, ODN2, and ODN3.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16228602
> 
> 
> Looks like this. Just haven't stretched it.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...3&d=1238799097
> 
> 
> And yes. I stole this from Time Warner Navigator Thread.



Actually, that's not stretched by the user. That's how the new Sammy outputs the Navigator UI. It has the capabilities for a true 16:9 guide, but TWC's "new" antiquated software isn't capable of that. So somewhere in the mix, the Samsung DVRs output a horizontally stretched UI.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16228670
> 
> 
> Definetly like these ones. Running an 8300HD.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=6046
> 
> 
> But my diagnostic screen looks different and there is 28 pages to it.
> 
> 
> Looking through those, are you guys saying you didn't have the ability to prioritize your recorded series?



The first version of Navigator (again, check my linked post for a screenshot. It's the old one with the unbearable white on blue guide) didn't have series recording priority. The newer version with the black guide does though. This in addition to a handful of other additional features in the update.


----------



## CoasterGuy2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16228688
> 
> 
> Also, just an update I added screenshots directly in the post for both ODN v2 and ODN v3 so you can compare between SARA, Passport, Passport Echo, ODN2, and ODN3.



Definitely closest to ODN v3.


Just for fun since we're comparing guides. This is what I had been looking at for 2 years. Still am looking at this guide on the moto boxes I still have.
http://www.brothersontech.com/files/...6412-guide.JPG 


It's from this page comparing it to a Series 3. Check out the laughable search method.
http://www.brothersontech.com/blog/b...torola-dct6412


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CoasterGuy2* /forum/post/16228720
> 
> 
> Definitely closest to ODN v3.
> 
> 
> Just for fun since we're comparing guides. This is what I had been looking at for 2 years. Still am looking at this guide on the moto boxes I still have.
> http://www.brothersontech.com/files/...6412-guide.JPG
> 
> 
> It's from this page comparing it to a Series 3. Check out the laughable search method.
> http://www.brothersontech.com/blog/b...torola-dct6412



Thanks. I had totally forgotten about Comcast's own guide/IPG being retained in the old Comcast areas. I'll make sure to add that as well.


Anyone know what Adelphia has used for their boxes? Was theirs just SARA?


----------



## nickdawg

The search feature on ODN3 is far superior to that Comcast Abomination. So I take it "Comcastic" means "crap-tastic"?

















I like the search on ODN3. Judging by those photos, it looks like the Tivo fails in the UI with the full screen menus. I prefer the 1/4 video window that all ODN menus have.


Never Again do i want to hear about SARA being 'ugly'.


And if I was you, I'd be in line at TWC tomorrow with three boxes in hand, walking out with three new SA 4250HDC boxes.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228797
> 
> 
> Never Again do i want to hear about SARA being 'ugly'.



What do you mean? SARA /IS/ ugly. Just wait till the next time I visit my brother and I'll get you a nice 8MP photo of the SARA guide at 1080i on a 1080p native 52" set. Just make sure you have the barf bag ready.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16228853
> 
> 
> What do you mean? SARA /IS/ ugly. Just wait till the next time I visit my brother and I'll get you a nice 8MP photo of the SARA guide at 1080i on a 1080p native 52" set. Just make sure you have the barf bag ready.



Sorry, I'm gonna have nightmares about that Comacast guide for months now!










I really do like SARA, it's like the old Passport, which I have always thought was the best. Too bad its not around anymore.










Ahh the good old days. Before SDV, before HD, before digital. When the old passport guide and Pioneer boxes just "worked".




























I'd trade everything I have now to go back to those good old days.


----------



## nickdawg

A Navigator Fan! *gasp*


(sigh) (grunt) (moan) (shriek)


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228873
> 
> 
> Before SDV



Eww...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228873
> 
> 
> before HD



Double Eww...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228873
> 
> 
> before digital



Triple Eww...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228873
> 
> 
> When the old passport guide and Pioneer boxes just "worked".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd trade everything I have now to go back to those good old days.



Now this I agree with but not if it meant losing HD, digital, and DVR services. /DEFINITELY/ not getting rid of the DVR capability. They can have it when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228873
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm gonna have nightmares about that Comacast guide for months now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really do like SARA, it's like the old Passport, which I have always thought was the best. Too bad its not around anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh the good old days. Before SDV, before HD, before digital. When the old passport guide and Pioneer boxes just "worked".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd trade everything I have now to go back to those good old days.



You're a trip. After complaining about no SDV now you're complaining that its here


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16228908
> 
> 
> 
> Now this I agree with but not if it meant losing HD, digital, and DVR services. /DEFINITELY/ not getting rid of the DVR capability. *They can have it when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.*



They can have it back any time, I'll gladly bring it back chained to the bumper of my car!!































And they can have the 4250HDC back, well what's left of it when I'm finished! LOL!










I went on a tour of the MLB channels. Two of them were macroblocking like a mofo and one was just "Not Available". And they think this free preview will make me want to buy this service?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16228932
> 
> 
> You're a trip. After complaining about no SDV now you're complaining that its here



It's not my fault. The way it was talked about, I thought it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. In reality, it's equivalent to an enema the size of a garden hose.


----------



## nickdawg

I complain so much, so I'll end the day on a positive. At least Discovery HDT still works. I need my daily fix of outrageous design thanks to 'Trading Spaces' (and recording it at 6AM).


----------



## Vchat20

Getting somewhat back on topic: For someone who knows better what new HD channels are planned in the coming months in TWC territory, is there any signs of the weather channel being added in HD?


(TWC SD seems to be another clear channel here. Probably by coincidence that they have to do a fresh analog to mpeg2 encode at each headend that has it's own star rather than requantising the incoming mpeg2 feeds off the sats and keeping the upstream CC data. Managed to get a clip last night that even looks good on YT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XzOZeCpk0 Only hoping it stays that way when the HD simulcast rolls around and they start delivering the HD stars.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16229337
> 
> 
> Getting somewhat back on topic: For someone who knows better what new HD channels are planned in the coming months in TWC territory, is there any signs of the weather channel being added in HD?
> 
> 
> (TWC SD seems to be another clear channel here. Probably by coincidence that they have to do a fresh analog to mpeg2 encode at each headend that has it's own star rather than requantising the incoming mpeg2 feeds off the sats and keeping the upstream CC data. Managed to get a clip last night that even looks good on YT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XzOZeCpk0 Only hoping it stays that way when the HD simulcast rolls around and they start delivering the HD stars.)



We never got off topic. We were talking about SDV and trying to help a fellow forum member determine why his box was getting crummy recordings. We help step him through to find out he 1. has Navigator software and 2. Has an SA 8300 which is a pos and therefore is not recording as it should.










OK, in regards to your questions we know what's coming up for the end of this month and somewhere somebody had posted a list of channels for next month as well which included FX but that is unofficial. I don't recall The Weather Channel being in HD.


Heres' whats upcoming:


On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family,


On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: ESPN News and MLB.


Now since you need digital service to get their "free" HD I don't understand the meaning of paragraph two. But that's how it is written.


I've noticed in the commercials TW is saying "Free HD with digital basic" now, probably to eliminate confusion from those who had just analog cable and thought they would get HD. Of course there are still ways around that by either cable card in set which will give you at the very least locals in HD and QAM tuners.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16228946
> 
> 
> They can have it back any time, I'll gladly bring it back chained to the bumper of my car!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they can have the 4250HDC back, well what's left of it when I'm finished! LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went on a tour of the MLB channels. Two of them were macroblocking like a mofo and one was just "Not Available". And they think this free preview will make me want to buy this service?



The "unavailable" one that was probably The Tribe game? That would get blacked out because of STO.


I haven't had any video issues that I can see with MLB Extra Innings. I watched most of the game I recorded the other day and while it looked more analog then digital it didn't have macro blocking or anything of that nature at all. It looked SD, which is what it was. My TiVo will make adjustments for signals that come in poorly like this and that may be why CoasterGuy2 had more problems then I did, quite honestly he is using a device who's hardware is known to have an inferior design to it (SA 8300). It's not all about the software and I wonder if the SA 8300 HDC didn't get better designed hardware?


Anyway you know your problems are related to the outside line. TW is dragging their butts in getting it fixed. Why haven't you played the Fry card? I know it's frustrating but do that first, get it fixed and then fire them.


----------



## hookbill

But there is still no sign of life on my 4250.


I went to the SDV carousel and it's showing that there is no activity going on, I had the channel set at STO HD.


I should also be able to tell by accessing the the tuner adapter diagnostic screen on TiVo. I'll keep my eye on it.


----------



## Norm78

I have a quick question since I couldn't find the answer on the TW website. How much does a premium channel like Showtime cost per month, and does it include all the variations of that channel such as HD and On Demand?


Also, if there was an event that I wanted to watch for one evening could I suscribe that channel for one day, cancel, and pay a pro-rated amount, or would I be required to pay for the whole month? Thanks!


----------



## smoti17

No sign of SDV in my corner of ex-Adelphia land yet, though there are sufficiently many diagnostics pumped out by the SDV box it's hard to be sure which to look at (user interface essentially the same from TiVo as to the cablecard).


I'd *love* it if someone could port a half-decent open source software alternative to SA/Moto cableco boxes, such as MythTV or something else Linux-based. DMCA has probably been the main deterrent to people trying this already :-(


I'd also love it if we could get Weather Channel in HD soon - the current picture quality is *shocking*, an HD source squeezed into v low-bandwidth SD digital then delivered by fuzzy analog. Yuk.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16230687
> 
> 
> No sign of SDV in my corner of ex-Adelphia land yet, though there are sufficiently many diagnostics pumped out by the SDV box it's hard to be sure which to look at (user interface essentially the same from TiVo as to the cablecard).
> 
> 
> I'd *love* it if someone could port a half-decent open source software alternative to SA/Moto cableco boxes, such as MythTV or something else Linux-based. DMCA has probably been the main deterrent to people trying this already :-(
> 
> 
> I'd also love it if we could get Weather Channel in HD soon - the current picture quality is *shocking*, an HD source squeezed into v low-bandwidth SD digital then delivered by fuzzy analog. Yuk.



It's not that hard to figure out. On the first page of the diagnostic menu go towards the bottom and you will see SDV. Select that, and then go to the SDV Carousel. It's exactly the same as it is on the 4250. And you're right there is nothing going on as of now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/16230603
> 
> 
> I have a quick question since I couldn't find the answer on the TW website. How much does a premium channel like Showtime cost per month, and does it include all the variations of that channel such as HD and On Demand?
> 
> 
> Also, if there was an event that I wanted to watch for one evening could I suscribe that channel for one day, cancel, and pay a pro-rated amount, or would I be required to pay for the whole month? Thanks!



About 10 bucks a month, it has all the Showtime channels plus On Demand.


And you can buy it for one day and cancel the next, they will prorate you for one days service.


----------



## hookbill

Wow, the screen information on the tuner adapter is exactly the same as on the 4250. Here is a shot of the SDV Mini Carousel info followed by a shot of the same screen on the 4250. As you can see no activity is going on (may be a bit blurry, but you can tell.










Edit: I forgot to mention This was done on both sets while channel was set to a definite SDV channel, 752 MLB Extra Innings.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16230887
> 
> 
> About 10 bucks a month, it has all the Showtime channels plus On Demand.
> 
> 
> And you can buy it for one day and cancel the next, they will prorate you for one days service.



I agree with this....but ...There may also be a service charge to actually make a change to your service though. So you could get rocked for signing up and again for shutting down.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16231453
> 
> 
> I agree with this....but ...There may also be a service charge to actually make a change to your service though. So you could get rocked for signing up and again for shutting down.
> 
> 
> Ray



I've never done it for one day but I have cancelled and reordered and I was told there is no additional charges, specifically, even if you cancelled the next day.


Now common sense tells me they wouldn't tolerate you doing it once a week but if you do it just once it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by ErieMarty View Post
> 
> About a week ago I sent Mr Fry an E-Mail asking him about getting Fox Pitt added to our HD Lineup..
> 
> 
> Friday I received a letter from Time Warner..(not from Mr Fry but someone who is high up and works for him..not going to mention the persons name).
> 
> 
> what the letter said..
> 
> 
> We are working towards an agreement with Fox Sports Pittsburgh HD and we are optimistic that we will secure the approval to add the service to our customers in Western PA soon.. While I know it seems like a simple change of programming, like many of the services we carry, the HD service is considered SEPARATE from the Standard Definintion...
> 
> 
> So it looks like we are going to get Fox Pittsburgh in HD sometime soon.
> 
> 
> The Letter also mention them adding 5 to 7 new HD Stations each month...they included the Stations they are planning on adding through the end of May 2009..
> 
> 
> here they are... (not going to include March)
> 
> 
> on April 29, 2009
> 
> 
> Bravo 466
> 
> CNBC 486
> 
> TLC 450
> 
> Animal Planet 452
> 
> ABC Family 460
> 
> ESPN News 432
> 
> MLB Network 438
> 
> 
> 
> now for May 26, 2009 (first time I have seen these mentioned anywhere)
> 
> *Golf 439
> 
> Nat GEO 453
> 
> Science 451
> 
> FX 478
> 
> Fox News 485
> 
> CNN 483
> *
> 
> 
> So Maybe..Maybe...Time Warner if finally catching up to other TW Systems around this area with their HD Program.



May HD Channels in bold


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16229791
> 
> 
> *snip*I don't recall The Weather Channel being in HD.*snip*



Actually, it's been in HD for a while, whether or not that is what you are referring to. When they had their massive studio change last year it was all for the HD broadcast (why they moved to using the big screens for the visuals rather than the classic green screen method /FOR HD/ I have absolutely no clue. Probably some smartass who thought he was being cute and the two-fries-short-of-a-happy-meal execs went along with it.)


The only thing that isn't HD at this point AFAIK (dunno about specific programming. The live in-studio pieces are in HD as are the in-the-field segments.) is the 'local on the 8s' as this uses proprietary systems at each cable headend (more commonly known as the Intellistars) and the current implementations can only do SD. Word on the street is they are currently working on the HD version but nothing out in the field yet. HD viewers just get the national locals direct from the headquarters so far.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16231618
> 
> 
> Actually, it's been in HD for a while, whether or not that is what you are referring to.



I was referring to it being on TW in HD.


----------



## hookbill

OK, so I'm looking at my TiVo Diagnostic screen and it tells me some very interesting information: Tuning Adapter: Operational Last Status: Ready and finally *Channel List Received: Yes*


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16231484
> 
> 
> I've never done it for one day but I have cancelled and reordered and I was told there is no additional charges, specifically, even if you cancelled the next day.
> 
> 
> Now common sense tells me they wouldn't tolerate you doing it once a week but if you do it just once it shouldn't be a problem.



I may have been thinking Dish Network when I had them They may have had a sevice charge for changes to service. Its good to know you can do this with TWC though.


Ray


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16231721
> 
> 
> I was referring to it being on TW in HD.



Ah. Gotcha. But this is known.







TW falls behind on this stuff everywhere unless you are in a super-snobby region like LA or Manhattan and then they get the royal treatment.










At this point I have all the HD channels I need with what we got a couple weeks ago. Out of the channels listed for April and May, about the only one(s) of interest is MAYBE the Science channel and ABC Family only if Whose Line is in HD (which I highly doubt). After that, gimme MSNBC, Cartoon Network (yeah, I know the whole 'no content in HD' argument. Don't gripe at me.), Spike, CMT, and of course TWC above all else. At that point I'd be content with the selection.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16233854
> 
> 
> Ah. Gotcha. But this is known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TW falls behind on this stuff everywhere unless you are in a super-snobby region like LA or Manhattan and then they get the royal treatment.



Hold on, bud, you do realize I'm from Los Angeles do you not?










Anyway, in other TW news I ordered MLB Extra Innings today and I wanted to pay for the whole thing right now. I have a credit card that I have to use it or lose it because it's got a zero balance and you know what's going on with banks today.


But TW doesn't want me to pay for it. The nice lady who took my order told me I could pay for it but I would lose the discount, translation, 39.00 more. For paying upfront, it cost more.







'


Obviously a system problem but geeze, doesn't anybody pay for something when they order it?


And one other thing. MLB Extra Innings is advertising during the games at a price of 169.00, $30.00 off regular season price if you order by 4/12. TW only charges 160.00. I guess the 9.00 discount is because they don't have any games in HD!


----------



## nickdawg

I checked again today, _Rescue Me_ for 04-07-09 is only available on PTOD (Primetime On Demand) in STANDARD DEFINITION!





















Even though there is a category for F/X on HD On Demand, Rescue Me has not been added to that list. Just old episodes of Damages and about three or four movies.







Guess I'm going to start watching Rescue Me midseason, whenever F/X HD shows up.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16233854
> 
> 
> Ah. Gotcha. But this is known.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TW falls behind on this stuff everywhere unless you are in a super-snobby region like LA or Manhattan and then they get the royal treatment.



Snobby, or cable theft is a large problem!










NYC went all digital to prevent cable theft. Since one incoming cable line can be split almost infinitely and you have buildings with large numbers of people in them, it's a problem. I think it was all channels above local broadcast were put on encrypted digital, which still frees up 60 some analog channels that were used for HD. And no SDV. Lucky bastards!


----------



## nickdawg

I have a little secret, forget the weather channel!! When you want weather info, tune to channel 372, WKYC Weather Plus. They show weather, all day!! Unlike the weather channel, that seems to be a talk show/documentary channel that rarely shows local weather info. I've completely stopped watching The Weather Channel after being pissed about having to wait through commercials with no weather info on screen bottom and waiting for Local on the 8. WKYC Weather Plus, actually just WKYC Weather, is a weather paradise. No screaming weather people, just maps and forecasts.







I love it.


----------



## Vchat20

I would nickdawg, but I'm a weatherstar/Intellistar nerd. I live for the local on the 8s.










They even have a full featured emulator for the old Weatherstar boxes and I've been itching to run it on a machine with tv out and modulate it through the house on an empty cable channel. That way it truly is 24/7 weather and my own choice of music.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16234044
> 
> 
> I would nickdawg, but I'm a weatherstar/Intellistar nerd. I live for the local on the 8s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They even have a full featured emulator for the old Weatherstar boxes and I've been itching to run it on a machine with tv out and modulate it through the house on an empty cable channel. That way it truly is 24/7 weather and my own choice of music.



Ahh, I see. I miss the old Weather Channel, from when it was a channel that showed weather. Now it's talk and documentaries. I'm just waiting for the first Weather Channel movie and reality show. Seems to be the way every network is going. Are the old Weatherstar graphics the ones that had the SARA Diagnostics screen fonts?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16233937
> 
> 
> I checked again today, _Rescue Me_ for 04-07-09 is only available on PTOD (Primetime On Demand) in STANDARD DEFINITION!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though there is a category for F/X on HD On Demand, Rescue Me has not been added to that list. Just old episodes of Damages and about three or four movies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess I'm going to start watching Rescue Me midseason, whenever F/X HD shows up.



Are you out of your mind? You want to miss the first part of the show that hasn't been on for 2 years just because it isn't in HD?


I'll take the SD episodes, and be patient for my HD thank you very much.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16234499
> 
> 
> Are you out of your mind? You want to miss the first part of the show that hasn't been on for 2 years just because it isn't in HD?
> 
> 
> I'll take the SD episodes, and be patient for my HD thank you very much.



I'll take the On Demand versions instead. Commercial free and the digital PQ on the VOD channel is far superior to the regular F/X channel. I took a look at it the other day, it was puke-worthy.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16233995
> 
> 
> I have a little secret, forget the weather channel!! When you want weather info, tune to channel 372, WKYC Weather Plus. They show weather, all day!! Unlike the weather channel, that seems to be a talk show/documentary channel that rarely shows local weather info. I've completely stopped watching The Weather Channel after being pissed about having to wait through commercials with no weather info on screen bottom and waiting for Local on the 8. WKYC Weather Plus, actually just WKYC Weather, is a weather paradise. No screaming weather people, just maps and forecasts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love it.



"Weather Plus" has gone downhill since NBC dropped their part of the package. The local weather persons also are gone







All that is left is a constant radar screen and their never-ending/in a loop theme music







WYTV out of Youngstown has the same kind of weather channel on 33-3 with the similar looping music. Hearing the looping music over time can make you loopy!














I'm not kidding, there is a psychological affect from hearing the same musical pattern looped ad-nauseam.


Love them or hate them, at least WOIO's weather channel still has live weather persons.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16234128
> 
> 
> Are the old Weatherstar graphics the ones that had the SARA Diagnostics screen fonts?



Yeah. Pretty much. Here's a couple links:
http://www.taiganet.com/ 
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...+taiganet&aq=f


----------



## nickdawg

What happened? I've been watching "In the Motherhood" and "Samantha Who" recorded from earlier tonight on WEWS. At first, it was HD. Then after the first commercial break it was HD, dropped to SD. Came back to HD right before the commercial break. After the second break, briefly HD and back to SD, where it stayed the rest of the show. I checked WEWHD live (at 10pm) and it is still in SDTV. Something else must be really wrong there. What a shock.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16236001
> 
> 
> What happened? I've been watching "In the Motherhood" and "Samantha Who" recorded from earlier tonight on WEWS. At first, it was HD. Then after the first commercial break it was HD, dropped to SD. Came back to HD right before the commercial break. After the second break, briefly HD and back to SD, where it stayed the rest of the show. I checked WEWHD live (at 10pm) and it is still in SDTV. Something else must be really wrong there. What a shock.



Somebody screwed up. I've seen this many times before it's just some type of technical error from the broadcaster.


Chill, dude.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16236067
> 
> 
> Somebody screwed up. I've seen this many times before it's just some type of technical error from the broadcaster.
> 
> 
> Chill, dude.



I've seen it before too. But lately it seems they've been very good about not having these types of problems. At the beginning of Samantha Who, there was about 3/4 second of HD before it went back.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16236113
> 
> 
> I've seen it before too. But lately it seems they've been very good about not having these types of problems. At the beginning of Samantha Who, there was about 3/4 second of HD before it went back.



I agree, we saw this a lot in the last couple of years but not much recently. Still, stuff happens.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16235165
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Love them or hate them, at least WOIO's weather channel still has live weather persons.



That's exactly why I love WKYC. I hate the on-camera meteorologists. I don't need someone telling me all the weather. I turn on WKYC, wait until Akron comes up in the 5 day forecast, take a look at the maps, and move on.


WOIO's channel is far worse than any channel on TV. They interrupt the weather to show COMMERCIALS. That's unforgivable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16236524
> 
> 
> That's exactly why I love WKYC. I hate the on-camera meteorologists. I don't need someone telling me all the weather. I turn on WKYC, wait until Akron comes up in the 5 day forecast, take a look at the maps, and move on.
> 
> 
> WOIO's channel is far worse than any channel on TV. They interrupt the weather to show COMMERCIALS. That's unforgivable.



The nerve of these broadcasters! Making money by selling advertisements!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16236566
> 
> 
> The nerve of these broadcasters! Making money by selling advertisements!



Notice I said WOIO. They're not making money, they're straight up greedy!! They're known for dumping primetime programming for paid programming. Both WUAB and WOIO have done this. Also, they have the most paid programming(other than WVPX or WOAC). They hardly need the extra money made by selling ad space on WOIO-2.


Besides, you already know how I feel about this issue of advertising and 'money making'.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16236524
> 
> 
> That's exactly why I love WKYC. I hate the on-camera meteorologists. I don't need someone telling me all the weather. I turn on WKYC, wait until Akron comes up in the 5 day forecast, take a look at the maps, and move on.



I can't imagine watching weather on TV. That was fine in the 1970s, but today we've got the internet. You can get accurate weather from any of a dozen sites. And you can get the actual text from the National Weather Service and not have to put up with the "spin" that the local broadcasters do to it.


In case you haven't noticed, they always predict higher highs in the summer, lower lows in the winter, more rain, more snow, more extremes in general whenever possible - just to get people to watch. Sells more advertising, but it doesn't really help if you want an accurate forecast.


I get my weather here:
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/...st?query=44022 


or here:
http://www.uswx.com/us/wx/oh/44135/ (be sure you have popups turned off)


Both sites provide direct NWS forecasts and lots of additional info. But there are countless others.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16236524
> 
> 
> ........WOIO's channel is far worse than any channel on TV. They interrupt the weather to show COMMERCIALS. That's unforgivable.



Capitalist PIGS!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16237680
> 
> 
> Capitalist PIGS!



He's amazing, isn't he?







Kind of like the guy in that AT&T commercial. He should switch to Advanced TV.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16237591
> 
> 
> I can't imagine watching weather on TV. That was fine in the 1970s, but today we've got the internet. You can get accurate weather from any of a dozen sites. And you can get the actual text from the National Weather Service and not have to put up with the "spin" that the local broadcasters do to it.................



Completely agree! I don't mind the 8 minute weather "recap" and forecast (read: guesstimate) on the local news, when I bother to watch the local crap.


What I find particularly NUTZ are those that will watch a weather ch (any) for hours on end! After 10 minutes you've seen/heard all they have to say (current and predicted conditions) then it simply repeats.... over.... and over..... and over..........


When I bring this point up to the weather ch fanatics I usually get the response..."well, yeah, but I like to have something in the background while I'm working around the house". Hey, that's cool, I have music playing 24/7 in my home, I can understand that. But why they would choose the same repeated LOOP of info and bad elevator music, from a 400 watt TV which they aren't even really watching, instead of turning on a simple radio is beyond me.


----------



## JJkizak

I'm always amazed at how they can expand 15 seconds of weather into 20 minutes. And how did the school kids waiting for the bus ever survive without knowing the chill index? Humidity index? Rain? Snow? Wind gusts? School closings? We could tell when the schools were closed when the busses never showed up. Then we would go outside and play all day in the snow at -5 below.

JJK


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16237695
> 
> 
> He's amazing, isn't he?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kind of like the guy in that AT&T commercial. He should switch to Advanced TV.



Ha! Yes.










I love nickdawg and his postings as he has a way with words. I must meet him in person some day.

BTW hook: isn't it your turn to host the Cleveland HDTV AVS-Forum bash this year???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16237786
> 
> 
> Ha! Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love nickdawg and his postings as he has a way with words. I must meet him in person some day.
> 
> BTW hook: isn't it your turn to host the Cleveland HDTV AVS-Forum bash this year???



No, I believe it's your turn. Or nickdawgs turn.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16237825
> 
> 
> No, I believe it's your turn. Or nickdawgs turn.



.....and here I thought I was in for a nice Tivo demo.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16237848
> 
> 
> .....and here I thought I was in for a nice Tivo demo.



Nope. This year it's an awful demo of dysfunctional SDV channels and missed/partial recordings at the Dawg house!































Be sure to stay for game time: SA 8300 tossing contest and SA4250 stomping!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16238164
> 
> 
> Nope. This year it's an awful demo of dysfunctional SDV channels and missed/partial recordings at the Dawg house!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to stay for game time: SA 8300 tossing contest and SA4250 stomping!



Seriously nickdawg. I can understand you being p.o.'d at TW for the problems you're having but you can do something about it and you're choosing not to.


It's not your box, (I can't believe I'm saying that







) and it's not SDV. It's out on the lines somewhere. And TW should have this fixed for you by now, it's BS that they haven't.


Or maybe you're just looking for an excuse to go to AT&T?


You've got the power. Balls in your court.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16238360
> 
> 
> Seriously nickdawg. I can understand you being p.o.'d at TW for the problems you're having but you can do something about it and you're choosing not to.



Seriously hookbill...


Today I paid the bill. Asked the CSR at the bill payment center about it. She says there's a note on the account about the problem, and somebody is supposed to come out and work on the pole. It's up to them, whenever the pole person comes out. And even the CSR asked about the boxes, that might be the problem. Of course they're trained with a list of possible issues.


To amend your statement, the ball(s) may be in my 'court', but they still have a tight rope around them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16240320
> 
> 
> Seriously hookbill...
> 
> 
> Today I paid the bill. Asked the CSR at the bill payment center about it. She says there's a note on the account about the problem, and somebody is supposed to come out and work on the pole. It's up to them, whenever the pole person comes out. And even the CSR asked about the boxes, that might be the problem. Of course they're trained with a list of possible issues.
> 
> 
> To amend your statement, the ball(s) may be in my 'court', but they still have a tight rope around them.



Hey, it's your cable you can do what you want. I wouldn't put up with it. They should at least offer you a 20.00 credit for inconvenience.


----------



## AdamPS

I am going to say this as respectfully I can, and I promise that I am not trying to be a jerk in any way; this is just a suggestion, but....

Hookbill and nickdawg, no one here, myself included, is going to say that both of you don't add anything to this board, because you both do. However, have the two of you ever considered contacting each other personally (ie., not on a public forum) to hash out some of your issues? I check in here every day or two just to see if there is any pertinent news, and almost every time I pop in here I have to scroll through pages of what boils down to a one-on-one discussion between you guys. A lot of things you discuss are pertinent items that may interest other members her, but a lot of your discussion is also only applicable to the two of you. I am in no way suggesting that you stop posting here, but is there any way that you could pare down your posts so that people like me who pop in here on a semi-daily basis don't have to scroll through pages of back and forth banter just to catch up?


----------



## AdamPS

Hook, I sent you a PM to further discuss since I think you slightly missed my point (possibly my fault) and any further conversation has nothing to do with the board, although I am curious to see if other members here feel as I do.


----------



## nickdawg

Cleveland can never have a decent opening day. What a shame.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow. This place really came to a screeching halt.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16242665
> 
> 
> Wow. This place really came to a screeching halt.



So what happened did they call the Tribe game?


----------



## Vchat20

I think they had a crawl on WKYC saying that when the game came back into play, they'd cut over out of NBC programming. So looks like they still plan to continue. Just have to wait on the weather to clear (which according to the radar here, should be very soon.)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16242693
> 
> 
> So what happened did they call the Tribe game?



IDK. NBC HD is showing Howie Mandell right now. STO HD is showing Bruce Drennan and there's still a "Rain Delay" bug in the top corner. But I doubt any fans are still sitting out there in the rain by now, it's been 5 hours!










I even went and looked at their tweeter. There was nothing about the Indians. :sonsufed:


----------



## hookbill

MLBnet is also debuting Sat. Nigh Baseball. First game Dodgers vs Arizona. Its in hd for some viewers.


This is one of the things I was looking forward to. We will get a wider variety of teams. And at the end of the month we will have it in hd on TW.


----------



## Vchat20

Looks like the game's back on at approx. 9:20. Works for me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16242850
> 
> 
> Looks like the game's back on at approx. 9:20. Works for me.



Am I the only one hoping it would start raining again, so it gets delayed four more hours? C'mon, I want Baseball at 2AM!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16243274
> 
> 
> Am I the only one hoping it would start raining again, so it gets delayed four more hours? C'mon, I want Baseball at 2AM!!



I'm about 10 minutes behind on my game which started at 9:30. Unless its a blow out ill be up a while. Don't forget about the free preview when your game ends.


PQ Looks good on dodger game on my little samsung.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16243336
> 
> 
> I'm about 10 minutes behind on my game which started at 9:30. Unless its a blow out ill be up a while. Don't forget about the free preview when your game ends.
> 
> 
> PQ Looks good on dodger game on my little samsung.



10 minutes behind?














On the Indians? Just wait a few minutes hookdog, or read the spoiler about the Indians.








*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) Spoiler  
*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) You'll be cursing at the TV.



Those MLB channels do look surprisingly good. I wish ALL the SD Digital channels from 2 to infinity and beyond would look that good!


Is that the 'little sammy' from the tuning adapter picture? For a second, I almost thought you had a computer monitor hooked up to it. It looks that small.


----------



## hookbill

Its a 19 inch screen. I like it because it doesn't require any stretching for SD and yes tuner adapter and Tivo.


----------



## nickdawg

I have to give a HUGE thumbs up to WKYC for keeping the screen so clean tonight. It seems like the FOX/other network presentations have much more garbage on the screen. WKYC/STO keeps it nice and clean during the game.


----------



## hookbill

No I meant no stretching for SD. I would never stretch HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16243509
> 
> 
> No I meant no stretching for SD. I would never stretch HD.



But aren't all HDTVs "no stretching for SD"? They are for me!









-----------------------------------------------

But back to this game, that now ended. This has to be one of the WORST performances I have seen in recent memory. What the ....? Did the team get ****faced in the locker room during the rain delay?







Unbelievable!


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16227079
> 
> 
> I checked the "gray bar" on my other TV, it looks OK now. They must have fixed it even more during the day.



Someone at WEWS might actually be reading this forum! Last night everything was full screen on WEWS when I did the "gray bar" test. Let's hope it stays that way.


----------



## pbarach

One of the best HDTV experiences I've had so far was the baseball game in which a cloud of midges defeating the Yankees' pitchers, thereby helping the Indians win. I don't recall what channel that was on, but the flies and the irritated players were crystal clear.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16246963
> 
> 
> One of the best HDTV experiences I've had so far was the baseball game in which a cloud of midges defeating the Yankees' pitchers, thereby helping the Indians win. I don't recall what channel that was on, but the flies and the irritated players were crystal clear.



I'm thinking TBS, that was the first round of the playoffs.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/16241521
> 
> 
> Hook, I sent you a PM to further discuss since I think you slightly missed my point (possibly my fault) and any further conversation has nothing to do with the board, although I am curious to see if other members here feel as I do.



I wouldn't butter up to this guy. I got yelled at by him for asking a relevant question in this forum related to HDTV in the Cleveland Area.










Your original point is well taken and I'm sure many others that lurk and post in this thread agree with you too. I wasn't going to say anything but after seeing his response to your polite post, I had to chime in.


----------



## rluyster

I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?


----------



## nickdawg

Hey Hookbill, did the Adelphia areas start broadcasting in SDV yet? I remember the date was supposed to be Thursday, but I haven't seen anything else about it here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/16249284
> 
> 
> I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?



I certainly understand how you feel. When OTA talk is going on for an extended period I don't have any interest. But cable seems to be the majority of people who come around hee and right now there is a lot going on.


Anyway I do need OTA folks to do comparisons with. Please feel free to post and post often. Same goes with satellite.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16249321
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, did the Adelphia areas start broadcasting in SDV yet? I remember the date was supposed to be Thursday, but I haven't seen anything else about it here.



I'm not seeing seeing any definitive signs. When I look at diagnostic screen on tuner adapters. PCR pids and video pids are 0,


----------



## Vchat20

Maybe one possibility you can check is to jot down the tuned frequency for a certain channel like USA or Discovery and check it day to day and see if it changes at all? Worth a shot. If it does change, it's a definitive that you've been moved to SDV. If not, it's still a guessing/waiting game.


----------



## hookbill

Vxhat I will do that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16249413
> 
> 
> Maybe one possibility you can check is to jot down the tuned frequency for a certain channel like USA or Discovery and check it day to day and see if it changes at all? Worth a shot. If it does change, it's a definitive that you've been moved to SDV. If not, it's still a guessing/waiting game.



That's a good idea. Also, if you're seeing numbers like 573.000 MHz, 597.000MHz or 585.000MHz, that means the channel should be SDV, as those are the SDV frequencies I have observed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/16249284
> 
> 
> I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?



Use the forum search tools:

Search this Thread: OTA


----------



## hookbill

Guys, I took a good hard look today at everything I could.


Maybe I'm missing something but the diagnostic screen on the TiVo Tuner Adapters is just as hard to read as the diagnostic screen on the 4250. If anything it goes to next page after page after page. But it's not the next page on the menu.


On the 4250 to get to the SDV Mini Carousal I scroll through a variety of screens to get there, usually I go backwards through the cable card menu. However with the tuner adapters I actually have a click down menu to bring up the topics. When I go to SDV Mini Carousal it is far more extensive as far as pages of material. At first I thought it simply was going through the next menu item but no, that's not the case.


Frequency isn't changing from channel to channel, either and it's not in the ranges nickdawg mentioned.


I can't tell. All signs are positive that the tuner adapter is hooked up, ready, willing and able to do it's thing. But I'm not a tech and while I can figure out or at least guess something, my best guess is I don't see anything indicating they ever started SDV. I have to base that off of the 4250 screen which hasn't changed at all either.


Maybe that's just the way it is with SARA, remember we are talking two different systems here. But if they started SDV on 4/9 then that's the smoothest transition I've ever seen of anything.


Ed, if you're looking in have you noticed anything in your area on your tuner adapter, or any other TiVo folks have any indicators of SDV? Matter of fact you don't have to be a TiVo user, anybody in ex Adephia SARA land see a difference?


----------



## shooter21198

Hooray for service outages.

I called TWC CS and they said they are loading a new thing onto the system and I assumed it was the Enabling of SDV could it be a easter miracle


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16250591
> 
> 
> Hooray for service outages.
> 
> I called TWC CS and they said they are loading a new thing onto the system and I assumed it was the Enabling of SDV could it be a easter miracle



No outages in my area, I gotta *ass*u*me* this is exclusive to Erie County. My understanding is they got lots to do over there to catch you guys up.


But then again we are both assuming arn't we?


----------



## shooter21198

there was a recording on when i called that said it affected areas to the south including mentor but last i checked Erie was north so once again assuming


----------



## smoti17

No signs of SDV on my chunk of ex-Adelphia land yet either.


When Jeanie called me on Thu, I asked her if she knew when SDV would be turned on, and she was kind of vague, saying it would be done in different areas at different times. So more TWC hurry-up-and-wait...


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/16249284
> 
> 
> I personally would like to see the Cleveland area postings be divided into an OTA thread and separate cable company threads as is done with other markets in this AVS section. I mainly come here for any OTA news and it's a real pain to have to wade through all the cable items to perhaps find an OTA tidbit. Can this be done?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16249344
> 
> 
> I certainly understand how you feel. When OTA talk is going on for an extended period I don't have any interest. But cable seems to be the majority of people who come around hee and right now there is a lot going on.
> 
> 
> Anyway I do need OTA folks to do comparisons with. Please feel free to post and post often. Same goes with satellite.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16249902
> 
> 
> Use the forum search tools:
> 
> Search this Thread: OTA



rluyster - I get what you're saying. Now might be a good time to start a "Cleveland, OH - OTA" thread, as this has become, first and foremost, a "Cleveland, OH - TWC/Adelphia" thread.


No knock on the TWC gang intended. Good for them that they have used this thread to their advantage. If I ever switch to TWC, I'll be glad that they're here.


toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.


IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.


rluyster, if you create "Cleveland, OH - OTA", I'll definitely subscribe.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/16251368
> 
> 
> ......toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.
> 
> 
> IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.......



Indeed. I wasn't implying it was the perfect solution, only a suggestion based on the reality of using this thread while weeding out the OP's unwanted thread posts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/16251368
> 
> 
> rluyster - I get what you're saying. Now might be a good time to start a "Cleveland, OH - OTA" thread, as this has become, first and foremost, a "Cleveland, OH - TWC/Adelphia" thread.
> 
> 
> No knock on the TWC gang intended. Good for them that they have used this thread to their advantage. If I ever switch to TWC, I'll be glad that they're here.
> 
> 
> toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.
> 
> 
> IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.
> 
> 
> rluyster, if you create "Cleveland, OH - OTA", I'll definitely subscribe.



I don't really want to see OTA people leave. Without a doubt, we hog the thread but as I said in the quote there is just a lot going on right now with the transition to SDV, etc.


If you guys do start another thread I hope you'll at least check in once in a while because we do need your help from time to time. But I certainly understand - all this stuff we talk about would be of no interest to you.


----------



## JJkizak

Well the OTA folder would be nice but I believe it is up to the AVS management. They do appear however to have gobs of harddrive space available. Who knows they might just do that for all the threads.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg

IDK, I like how things are now. Even though I get a bit bored with OTA talk at times, sometimes it is important to what's happening at TWC, as in the case of the 'black line' on the bottom of the screen. It was nice to have a comparison between cabel, OTA, satellite about that problem.


----------



## stilesec

Hi All. I just got my new antennas hooked up. I am 50 - 60 miles from the cleveland stations and am getting a great signal on all the uhf channels. However, I can't get squat out of the vhf. WKYC (3 - NBC) gets nothing and WOIO (10 - CBS) gets a bit of signal but not enough to view. WKYC moves to UHF in June so I am hoping that fixes that problem. However WOIO is moving from 19 to 10. I can get a snowy analog WOIO signal on 19 now. My43 WUAB is supposedly on the same tower and I get a signal strength of 70 and a great picture on that station. Nothing on WOIO - 10 though. Anybody have some recommendations about how to pull in WOIO - 10? New equipment is ok.


Winegard HD 5030 VHF Antenna

Antennas Direct 91XG UHF

ChannelMaster 7777 Pre-Amp

2 - Perfect Vision PVDP2 Diplexer Dual Satellite Dish TV Antenna Combiners

TIVO HD


Thanks in advance everyone.


----------



## Straybeat

Are you south around Canton (my hometown)? If so, back in the '60's we had to throw up the 30 foot tower with an antenna rotor. Afterward we got nearly everything clear, although snow storms would screw up some channels. If you're east or west of Cleveland, probably the same answer will work.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16250591
> 
> 
> Hooray for service outages.
> 
> I called TWC CS and they said they are loading a new thing onto the system and I assumed it was the Enabling of SDV could it be a easter miracle



FYI for you and ErieMarty-- I checked what was now available in HD via QAM on the City TWC system on my father-in-law's set and all of the Cleveland market HD stations that were on there as late as 6-8 weeks ago are now gone. All I could find "in the clear" are 89.1 (WQLN); 89.2 (WSEE); 99.1 (WICU); 99.2 (WFXP); 104.1 (WJET). WICU is on a subchannel of WFXP or WJET..(I can't remember which) so there is no NBC HD available in Erie yet! And Friday night, someone at WSEE was "asleep at the switch" and didn't switch CBS programming to HD until Numbers was about 2/3 done! And none of the Erie locals have any HD studio capability. We tend to forget how far along we are here in the Cleveland market!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16255117
> 
> 
> FYI for you and ErieMarty-- I checked what was now available in HD via QAM on the City TWC system on my father-in-law's set and all of the Cleveland market HD stations that were on there as late as 6-8 weeks ago are now gone. All I could find "in the clear" are 89.1 (WQLN); 89.2 (WSEE); 99.1 (WICU); 99.2 (WFXP); 104.1 (WJET). WICU is on a subchannel of WFXP or WJET..(I can't remember which) so there is no NBC HD available in Erie yet! And Friday night, someone at WSEE was "asleep at the switch" and didn't switch CBS programming to HD until Numbers was about 2/3 done! And none of the Erie locals have any HD studio capability. We tend to forget how far along we are here in the Cleveland market!



It sure seems like the Erie area gets the TW shaft quite a bit. The good news is SDV won't affect local stations so they should stay clear in QAM but man that is really limiting people at this point.


The no NBC in clear in QAM doesn't make sense. If they are carrying an NBC station it should be available. Then again IIRC my TiVo couldn't find WJW in HD before I got cable cards. Just to clarify that's using strictly OTA cable.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16255136
> 
> 
> It sure seems like the Erie area gets the TW shaft quite a bit. The good news is SDV won't affect local stations so they should stay clear in QAM but man that is really limiting people at this point.
> 
> 
> The no NBC in clear in QAM doesn't make sense. If they are carrying an NBC station it should be available. Then again IIRC my TiVo couldn't find WJW in HD before I got cable cards. Just to clarify that's using strictly OTA cable.



We do get NBC Channel 12 HD in the clear in QAM in Erie - it's on 99.1.


----------



## hookbill

This will come of interest to you, from OMW :


AS EXPLAINED IN IDEASTREAM'S REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE BUILDOUT, WVIZ'S FINAL AUTHORIZED DTV FACILITY IS TO BE LOCATED ON A NEW TOWER TO BE SHARED WITH STATION WKYC-DT. THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT TOWER HAD BEEN UNEXPECTEDLY DELAYED (SEE, STA REQUEST OF WKYC-TV, INC., FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20081201AWR AND MONTHLY FCC FORM 387 UPDATES FILED BY WKYC-TV, INC.). WHILE COMPLETION OF A FINAL FACILITY TO MEET A FEBRUARY 17, 2009 DEADLINE WAS NOT POSSIBLE, IDEASTREAM UNDERSTANDS FROM WKYC-TV, INC. THAT THE NEW TOWER WILL BE COMPLETED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE NEW JUNE 12, 2009 DEADLINE.


According to the report the tower probably won't light up until 6/12.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16255708
> 
> 
> This will come of interest to you, from OMW :
> 
> 
> AS EXPLAINED IN IDEASTREAM'S REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE BUILDOUT, WVIZ'S FINAL AUTHORIZED DTV FACILITY IS TO BE LOCATED ON A NEW TOWER TO BE SHARED WITH STATION WKYC-DT. THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT TOWER HAD BEEN UNEXPECTEDLY DELAYED (SEE, STA REQUEST OF WKYC-TV, INC., FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20081201AWR AND MONTHLY FCC FORM 387 UPDATES FILED BY WKYC-TV, INC.). WHILE COMPLETION OF A FINAL FACILITY TO MEET A FEBRUARY 17, 2009 DEADLINE WAS NOT POSSIBLE, IDEASTREAM UNDERSTANDS FROM WKYC-TV, INC. THAT THE NEW TOWER WILL BE COMPLETED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE NEW JUNE 12, 2009 DEADLINE.
> 
> 
> According to the report the tower probably won't light up until 6/12.



Awesome. Thanks hook.










I was just assuming another delay, so this is great news. I have noticed a much more consistent WVIZ OTA signal lately. Might just be coincidental and/or atmospheric, or maybe they are testing some boosted signal strategies for the eventual DTV tower transition, who knows.


----------



## hookbill

On that same OMW report they show the list of next upcoming channels, but they are indicating that these channels do not require basic digital except one. This is incorrect of course unless you've got QAM in the clear. I have emailed them about this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16255798
> 
> 
> On that same OMW report they show the list of next upcoming channels, but they are indicating that these channels do not require basic digital except one. This is incorrect of course unless you've got QAM in the clear. I have emailed them about this.



Why? What's not to understand about that? If you're freeloading out of the 'clear' local channels, you do not get any of the non-broadcast HD channels already. So why would one assume they would be getting the new channels?


Wait, I spoke too soon. Any moment now, a certain Clever Trousers will be here telling me how he's entitled to USA HD.










What "Digital Basic" means is NOT having a box or not. It means you subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier for $5 a month. (Refer to your channel lineup card, they are in red) The Digital Basic Tier includes channels like ESPNU and MLB channel. So it follows that you would have to subscribe to the SD versions to get the HD versions. And the other channels like TLC, Animal, Bravo would require a box to get, since you need a box to get ESPN, TNT, etc.


I'm still pissed they're adding GOLF. Hey Steve-O, when are we getting Paint Drying HD? Or Flies Reproducing HD?


----------



## bassguitarman

I see on Ohio Media Watch that WKYC channel 3's tower is finally going up.This will also be the home of channel 25


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16255972
> 
> 
> What "Digital Basic" means is NOT having a box or not. It means you subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier for $5 a month. (Refer to your channel lineup card, they are in red) The Digital Basic Tier includes channels like ESPNU and MLB channel. So it follows that you would have to subscribe to the SD versions to get the HD versions. And the other channels like TLC, Animal, Bravo would require a box to get, since you need a box to get ESPN, TNT, etc.
> 
> 
> I'm still pissed they're adding GOLF. Hey Steve-O, when are we getting Paint Drying HD? Or Flies Reproducing HD?



No your wrong. That may be in your area but over here we have Basic, and EXPANDED Basic which handles all the non digital channels. Remember we have analog channels. So that gives you all the channels in the first 100.


TW itself says that it's "Free HD" is available with digital cable. It doesn't say anything about Expanded Basic which is not digital. Go to the website yourself. http://www.timewarnercable.com/custo...e/clu/clu.ashx 


I think it's different in the your area.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16256089
> 
> 
> No your wrong. That may be in your area but over here we have Basic, and EXPANDED Basic which handles all the non digital channels. Remember we have analog channels. So that gives you all the channels in the first 100.
> 
> 
> TW itself says that it's "Free HD" is available with digital cable. It doesn't say anything about Expanded Basic which is not digital. Go to the website yourself. http://www.timewarnercable.com/custo...e/clu/clu.ashx
> 
> 
> I think it's different in the your area.



We have the same thing, remember, they standardized the lineups/packages.


Basic, Expanded Basic, Digital, Extra Tiers(Sports, Movie, Choice).


Basic + Expanded Basic covers what used to be under 100 here too.


However, even though TNT, ESPN, FOOD, A&E always used to be EXPANDED BASIC, a box is always required to get those channels in HIGH DEFINITION.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16256040
> 
> 
> I see on Ohio Media Watch that WKYC channel 3's tower is finally going up.This will also be the home of channel 25



You mean WVIZ will actually be available... this summer... and not in the sense that is was going to be available "this summer" for the past 5 summers?! I can't wait to be able to get WKYC and WVIZ OTA. I might be able to lessen my indoor antenna's profile once the transition occurs. That'd be nice. It is quite the eye sore right now.


----------



## stuart628

I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16257987
> 
> 
> I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!



The only free HD via cable is usually through the use of a QAM tuner which will allow you to see any/all ch's the cable co has put out "in the clear". I believe they are mandated to put locals on clear QAM and this usually involves HD locals.


I don't think you will get any HD ch's for free via cable, Tivo or not, unless you have this QAM tuner, and then only the locals. Check your TV as it may have a QAM tuner (and I don't think any Tivo's include any QAM tuners).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16257987
> 
> 
> I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!



If you're looking at saving cash TiVo is not the way to go. First, the cable cards are not for analog television. They are for digital only, and as Toby10 points out you would get qam channels only with what you want to purchase. And with that you wouldn't even get guide data for recording making your S3 fairly useless.


The only way to do it would be purchase digital cable, the cable card (s) TiVo service (12.95 per month). Definitely nothing you'd want to buy if you're on a budget, it's really a luxury.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16257987
> 
> 
> I have a question about this free HD thing since you guys brought it up, as I am still toying with the idea of a tivo series 3, if I get that and have the baisc cable (all analog) will I get my locals plus STO and FSN hd through time warner through the tivo (oh and espn)? I know I will need a cable card, but I am really looking to make some cutbacks as two kids is getting a little harder on the budget!



You'd be better off getting a TWC box. You'll get access to all the new HD channels plus the existing analog channels in digital. For $7.35 a month. No cable card fee, no Tivo service fee.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16258915
> 
> 
> You'd be better off getting a TWC box. You'll get access to all the new HD channels plus the existing analog channels in digital. For $7.35 a month. No cable card fee, no Tivo service fee.



But wouldn't he need to buy TWC's basic HD service, in addition to the basic Digital Tier to get anything in HD? Sounds to me like he wants to get basic cable and (somehow) get HD ch's with it.


I'm not on a TWC system, so maybe TWC does it differently, I dunno. But most cable co's insist you have (and pay for) a Digital Tier then pay more for any HD ch's as a "premium". Unless, as I said prior, you have a QAM tuner and just want the locals in HD (with no guide nor program data).


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16258915
> 
> 
> You'd be better off getting a TWC box. You'll get access to all the new HD channels plus the existing analog channels in digital. For $7.35 a month. No cable card fee, no Tivo service fee.



In my TWC area (NE Ohio), it's $7.35 for the SA8300HD box, extra for the remote, and $7 MORE per month for the DVR feature.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16259049
> 
> 
> In my TWC area (NE Ohio), it's $7.35 for the SA8300HD box, extra for the remote, and $7 MORE per month for the DVR feature.



Yeah, nickdawg conveniently left out that part. Cable cards are 5.00 for 2, and with an M Card it's only 2.50 but STILL you have to pay for TiVo service which is higher IF you pay monthly. If the poster could afford it in the long run he would actually save money with TiVo but you would have to take a multi year subscription or lifetime.


And before you post it nickdawg, we all know how you feel about lifetime service and you really don't understand it all that well. However I would say DO NOT purchase lifetime with a TiVo S3.


Edit: With a TiVo S3 the poster would HAVE to purchase two cable cards. Something to think about.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16259049
> 
> 
> In my TWC area (NE Ohio), it's $7.35 for the SA8300HD box, extra for the remote, and $7 MORE per month for the DVR feature.



No. I was talking about just the box. That's where it starts. IF you want DVR, that costs extra. Still less than Tivo and no equipment to buy.


----------



## stuart628

so really the cheapest would be 85 a month for internet and cable (the deal they are running now) which is fine as my two tvs have qam tuners and that price includes a dvr. looks like tivo might be out


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16260203
> 
> 
> so really the cheapest would be 85 a month for internet and cable (the deal they are running now) which is fine as my two tvs have qam tuners and that price includes a dvr. looks like tivo might be out



That sounds very cheap to me. For some reason I'm thinking $100.00. I could be wrong.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16260027
> 
> 
> No. I was talking about just the box. That's where it starts. IF you want DVR, that costs extra. Still less than Tivo and no equipment to buy.



Right, I was mentioning the added cost for DVR because the IMO it doesn't make sense to compare its cost to the Tivo box unless you are including the cost of DVR service, which of course is the heart of the Tivo system.


BTW, TWC originally gave me the SA8300HD box when I got an HD set, and I opted out of the DVR service at that time. But some time last year, they sent me a letter saying that either I had to return the box and get an HD box that didn't have the DVR feature that was turned off and I hadn't been paying for, or else they would start charging me for the DVR service whether or not I wanted it turned on! I had no argument with trading boxes until I found out that (1) the other box had no HDMI connections and (2) they didn't have any of the other boxes to give me. So I did nothing, kept my current box, and they haven't started charging me for the DVR service (which remains turned off).


----------



## hookbill

SA4250 STB has HDMI. I think its a good box.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16250134
> 
> 
> Ed, if you're looking in have you noticed anything in your area on your tuner adapter, or any other TiVo folks have any indicators of SDV? Matter of fact you don't have to be a TiVo user, anybody in ex Adephia SARA land see a difference?



No, I haven't seen any difference here either. But again, wouldn't know what I was looking for...


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16260292
> 
> 
> That sounds very cheap to me. For some reason I'm thinking $100.00. I could be wrong.



I think I would settle in there with tax, its just hard to pay about 135 for directv and 35 for internet when time warner would bundle them and save me a bit of money.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16260818
> 
> 
> SA4250 STB has HDMI. I think its a good box.



Whatever they "offered me," they told me when I asked that there was no HDMI and that I would have to go on a waiting list for it while they charged me the $7 a month for DVR service that wasn't wanted and wasn't turned on. Then they didn't. I'm standing pat...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16260970
> 
> 
> I think I would settle in there with tax, its just hard to pay about 135 for directv and 35 for internet when time warner would bundle them and save me a bit of money.



I'm guessing the 135 mo for sat included a lot more ch's than the TWC pkg you are comparing it too.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16261067
> 
> 
> Whatever they "offered me," they told me when I asked that there was no HDMI and that I would have to go on a waiting list for it while they charged me the $7 a month for DVR service that wasn't wanted and wasn't turned on. Then they didn't. I'm standing pat...



The replacement box they were offering in trade had no HDMI port? Or it had an HDMI port that was not activated?

The Component Video output from either HD box would render the same PQ.

HDMI is certainly convenient (one cable for audio and video) but offers no advantage in audio and video playback in regards to cable, sat, or ota use.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16255199
> 
> 
> We do get NBC Channel 12 HD in the clear in QAM in Erie - it's on 99.1.



That's what I would have thought. But I never saw any HD programming on 99.1 at my in-laws nor on the digital offerings at the Sheraton Bayfront where they had all the local HD offerings plus ESPN, ESPN2, Discovery, HDNet and Showtime. But no program on WICU-DT ever showed up in HD.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16262152
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the 135 mo for sat included a lot more ch's than the TWC pkg you are comparing it too.



From what I can tell, that includes just about every channel, all movie Premiums, all HD channels, all the fees included. The only channels it doesn't include would be the adult ones and Setanta. And that price is excluding the 12 month rebates, the 3 month rebates, etc...


Thing I've always despised about Time Warner... you haven't a clue what you are actually signing up for and they don't list the taxes and fees. So not only are you in the dark about what channels you'll get, you are also in the dark about the actual cost, both now and after 12 months!


----------



## Inundated

OK, so I darken the door of the Cleveland thread for a good reason.


Time Warner Cable has thrown me a curveball.


They apparently had a major maintenance window last night, and at least some of it was right here on the section of TWC that serves me.


My SA8000HD made it through fine (for the most part), but the system upgrade turned both of my old SD SA3100 boxes into bricks. The boxes say that they're not authorized for service, show four dashes, and TWC reps can't activate them remotely. This, despite numerous reboots (both at their direction, and on my own).


The TWC rep I talked with today sent the "hit" down, which caused the boxes to reboot, but back into the "not authorized" screen.


I'm gonna probably take the boxes in (can you take old Adelphia boxes into legacy TWC centers these days? I don't feel like driving up to Strongsville...). My gut feeling tells me that the 3100 got taken out by the new update.


As I said, the SA8000HD is fine, except for something that is apparently a sign that SDV has come to our part of the ex-Adelphia/TWC universe.


As had been reported by others in SDV land earlier, STOHD is now pixellating to beat the band (much like the video that was posted here). The problem affects no other HD channels (or SD channels), including the new ones added recently. Just STOHD.


I'm wondering if I should also swap out my SA8000HD, which I'm reluctant to do because A) it works otherwise and B) I have some recordings on there I'd like to keep, though I could live without them if I had to do so. (I have no easy way to pull them off.)


From what I remember reading here, I'm pretty sure that the STOHD problem isn't based on the box itself, and I presume it'll be fixed at some point.


----------



## bassguitarman

I wondered if TWC did something overnight in my former Adelphia area. My SA8300HD came up fine this morning but it started on channel 1 not channel 23 as it normally does.


----------



## ed1202

Well this morning my TW service went into "not authorized" status. So I called and yes apparently there was some sort of system upgrade that happened and the rep said that hits were needed to be sent out to "a lot" of customers this morning. So anyway everything is back up and running except I can't get any of the SDV channels on the TiVo and the tuning adapter's green light is blinking. She set up a service call for later this week, but I hope with some tinkering I can correct it myself.


I did point blank ask her if this has anything to do with SDV being rolled out and she said "no", but I'm sure that doesn't mean anything...


Hook, how are things with you this morning?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/16262559
> 
> 
> From what I can tell, that includes just about every channel, all movie Premiums, all HD channels, all the fees included. The only channels it doesn't include would be the adult ones and Setanta. And that price is excluding the 12 month rebates, the 3 month rebates, etc...
> 
> 
> Thing I've always despised about Time Warner... you haven't a clue what you are actually signing up for and they don't list the taxes and fees. So not only are you in the dark about what channels you'll get, you are also in the dark about the actual cost, both now and after 12 months!



It seems odd there would be such a price difference between sat and cable, assuming they are offering similar ch lineups and/or # of ch's.










Doesn't TWC offer a simple chart of ch's per pkg? I've never looked for TWC lineups but I know my WOW Cable has a nice, simple, single page layout of what ch's you get per pkg. No confusion or ambiguity as to what you will get for $$$.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stilesec* /forum/post/16254295
> 
> 
> Hi All. I just got my new antennas hooked up. I am 50 - 60 miles from the cleveland stations and am getting a great signal on all the uhf channels. However, I can't get squat out of the vhf. WKYC (3 - NBC) gets nothing and WOIO (10 - CBS) gets a bit of signal but not enough to view. WKYC moves to UHF in June so I am hoping that fixes that problem. However WOIO is moving from 19 to 10. I can get a snowy analog WOIO signal on 19 now. My43 WUAB is supposedly on the same tower and I get a signal strength of 70 and a great picture on that station. Nothing on WOIO - 10 though. Anybody have some recommendations about how to pull in WOIO - 10? New equipment is ok.
> 
> 
> Winegard HD 5030 VHF Antenna
> 
> Antennas Direct 91XG UHF
> 
> ChannelMaster 7777 Pre-Amp
> 
> 2 - Perfect Vision PVDP2 Diplexer Dual Satellite Dish TV Antenna Combiners
> 
> TIVO HD
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance everyone.



I'd replace the HD 5030 with a Winegard YA-1713 or a Funke psp.1922, preferably a psp.1922. The gentleman that was selling psp.1922s is sold out, but you may find someone who is willing to sell one if you post in the many OTA forums that are currently on the net. The YA-1713 provides higher gain on channels 7-13 than the HD 5030. Make sure you mount the 91XG at least 4' (preferably 5') above the YA-1713. I'd get rid of the diplexer and run a separate RG6 cable from the antenna system to the television(s). You'll also want to ensure that the 7777's built in FM trap is engaged.


WOIO-DT has been broadcasting in digital on channel 10 and will continue to do so after the transition. WOIO-DT has applied to the FCC to increase its power from 3.5 kW ERP to 10.3 kW ERP post transition. It remains to be seen whether it will receive permission to increase its power. I'm 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter and receive it 24/7 with a YA-1713. Keep in mind, however, that I'm on high ground and have a 55' tower. You'll also want to mount your antenna system as high as possible. WJW is moving its digital signal from channel 31 to channel 8 on June 12th. You should receive WKYC-DT when it moves to channel 17. There is too much electrical interference on channel 2 to receive WKYC-DT over 50 miles from the transmitter.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16262905
> 
> 
> OK, so I darken the door of the Cleveland thread for a good reason.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable has thrown me a curveball.
> 
> 
> They apparently had a major maintenance window last night, and at least some of it was right here on the section of TWC that serves me.
> 
> 
> My SA8000HD made it through fine (for the most part), but the system upgrade turned both of my old SD SA3100 boxes into bricks. The boxes say that they're not authorized for service, show four dashes, and TWC reps can't activate them remotely. This, despite numerous reboots (both at their direction, and on my own).
> 
> 
> The TWC rep I talked with today sent the "hit" down, which caused the boxes to reboot, but back into the "not authorized" screen.
> 
> 
> I'm gonna probably take the boxes in (can you take old Adelphia boxes into legacy TWC centers these days? I don't feel like driving up to Strongsville...). My gut feeling tells me that the 3100 got taken out by the new update.
> 
> 
> As I said, the SA8000HD is fine, except for something that is apparently a sign that SDV has come to our part of the ex-Adelphia/TWC universe.
> 
> 
> As had been reported by others in SDV land earlier, STOHD is now pixellating to beat the band (much like the video that was posted here). The problem affects no other HD channels (or SD channels), including the new ones added recently. Just STOHD.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if I should also swap out my SA8000HD, which I'm reluctant to do because A) it works otherwise and B) I have some recordings on there I'd like to keep, though I could live without them if I had to do so. (I have no easy way to pull them off.)
> 
> 
> From what I remember reading here, I'm pretty sure that the STOHD problem isn't based on the box itself, and I presume it'll be fixed at some point.



Pull up the Diagnostic screen on the 8000HD. Look for the page that has the SDV information and see if anything is activated or there are any numbers. Hookbill has said this screen always says "no" and there are zeros. Also, with STO HD as the tuned channel, find something similar to my "Current Service Info" screen that shows information about the tuned channel to see if the names are different. If it is SDV, it should say something like "STO HD SDV" as the channel name. Also, you can check by frequency. If it's SDV, it should be 573.00MHz, 597.000MHz or 585.000MHz.


About swapping the boxes, in the long run you'll be happier with the newer boxes. If/when the Adelphia areas get Navigator, the ODN (for new HDC boxes) is far superior to the MDN (for old boxes like 8000HD, 3100HD, etc).


----------



## ed1202

The "upgrade" apparently involves VOD. The channel 1 VOD portal is now gone on the sara boxes and the individual VOD channels are now in the 500's (aligning with the rest of Time Warner land). So maybe this *didn't* have anything to do with SDV...


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16263959
> 
> 
> It seems odd there would be such a price difference between sat and cable, assuming they are offering similar ch lineups and/or # of ch's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't TWC offer a simple chart of ch's per pkg? I've never looked for TWC lineups but I know my WOW Cable has a nice, simple, single page layout of what ch's you get per pkg. No confusion or ambiguity as to what you will get for $$$.



I've never been able to find a chart like that for TWC. They say you'll get over 200 digital channels, but never really expand beyond that, from what I can tell. And your doomed if you try to find out how much it'll be after 12 months pass.


Dish Network and Directv have great online tools to not only choose what you want, but to see exactly how much it'll cost now and once the introductory savings go away.


----------



## Inundated

I can confirm that SDV has come to at least part of the former Adelphia/Cleveland universe, and on a SARA box, no less. And not just because of the pixellation on some HD channels.


Unlike the last time I checked my SA8000HD's diagnostic screen, the three SDV pages are lit up, activated and are no longer filled with zeroes. I'll try to post a screen shot later tonight. But it's quite clear that SDV has made it here, at least in MY portion of the former Adelphia universe.


It may not have made it past here (Bath/Copley/Northampton/western Summit County). I now have the new VOD single channels (500s, etc.). I don't believe other areas got that last night, if the message on the TWC CS line was accurate...it specifically mentioned upgrades in Bath, which is the headend that serves where I am.


As for the SD boxes, I took 'em both back to Midway Plaza, was given one identical SA3100 box in replacement, and the problem probably wasn't the boxes themselves. (I came in with two and left with one on purpose - one box has been sitting unused for about a year here.)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16264248
> 
> 
> Also, you can check by frequency. If it's SDV, it should be 573.00MHz, 597.000MHz or 585.000MHz.



I did notice one of the screens said 585.000MHz.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16264716
> 
> 
> The "upgrade" apparently involves VOD. The channel 1 VOD portal is now gone on the sara boxes and the individual VOD channels are now in the 500's (aligning with the rest of Time Warner land). So maybe this *didn't* have anything to do with SDV...



Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?


USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16262217
> 
> 
> The replacement box they were offering in trade had no HDMI port? Or it had an HDMI port that was not activated?
> 
> The Component Video output from either HD box would render the same PQ.
> 
> HDMI is certainly convenient (one cable for audio and video) but offers no advantage in audio and video playback in regards to cable, sat, or ota use.



They told me it had no HDMI port. On my TV, I was getting a less sharp pic from component video input than I was from HDMI. This was true for video signals from my 8300HD and from my Denon 3910 DVD player. PQ is often the same from HDMI and component, but not always--other people have reported this, too.


So once I found out that the replacement they were offering (which they didn't even have in stock) had "no HDMI" (their words), I was not interested. Also, on my end of the cable, "no HDMI" and "HMDI port that was not activated" are equivalent, of course.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16263745
> 
> 
> Well this morning my TW service went into "not authorized" status. So I called and yes apparently there was some sort of system upgrade that happened and the rep said that hits were needed to be sent out to "a lot" of customers this morning. So anyway everything is back up and running except I can't get any of the SDV channels on the TiVo and the tuning adapter's green light is blinking. She set up a service call for later this week, but I hope with some tinkering I can correct it myself.
> 
> 
> I did point blank ask her if this has anything to do with SDV being rolled out and she said "no", but I'm sure that doesn't mean anything...
> 
> 
> Hook, how are things with you this morning?



Nothing changed here. I've been busy doing all kinds of stuff today so I was surprised to see all the action.


Checked 4250 box, no changes still starts on 23. No changes on information on SDV carousel.


No SDV here. Yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16266565
> 
> 
> Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?
> 
> 
> USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.



Ed has a TiVo HD of some sort with tuner adapter.


And it's nice to see you again, sorry you're having problems. I shudder to think about it maybe tonight it will hit me.


Has anyone called customer service and directly asked what the flock is going on?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16262217
> 
> 
> The Component Video output from either HD box would render the same PQ.
> 
> HDMI is certainly convenient (one cable for audio and video) but offers no advantage in audio and video playback in regards to cable, sat, or ota use.



PQ is debatable, I've heard people say HDMI does make a difference and it would seem like having one digital source would work better then 3 component sources.


I can't see the difference but I use HDMI on my TiVo HD converted to DVI.


And just so I'm clear, the HDMI on the SA 4250 does indeed work.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16266514
> 
> 
> I did notice one of the screens said 585.000MHz.



Was the 585.000MHz channel the one having problems?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16266565
> 
> 
> Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?
> 
> 
> USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.



It sounds like USA HD is now on SDV. On ODN Navigator, there is something that says "Channel not available" and "Press A to try again". This happens when there is a problem with tuning a SDV channel. Which channels are pixellated? The new HD channels: 443, 449, 456, 469, 476? It almost sounds like you have the same issue I'm seeing.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16266664
> 
> 
> Nothing changed here. I've been busy doing all kinds of stuff today so I was surprised to see all the action.
> 
> 
> Checked 4250 box, no changes still starts on 23. No changes on information on SDV carousel.
> 
> 
> No SDV here. Yet.



Did you try rebooting the box? Since it is a "C" box, it might need to be 'helped' along.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16266924
> 
> 
> Did you try rebooting the box? Since it is a "C" box, it might need to be 'helped' along.



Exactly what I was thinking, the blinking light is an indicator that the tuner adapter is not connected. I would unplug the tuner adapter, plug it back in and see if you get a solid green signal. If not I would try a reboot.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16266938
> 
> 
> Exactly what I was thinking, the blinking light is an indicator that the tuner adapter is not connected. I would unplug the tuner adapter, plug it back in and see if you get a solid green signal. If not I would try a reboot.



Try to reboot your 4250HDC. Maybe the changes are "waiting" on the line and once it resets and refreshes, the changes will appear.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16266565
> 
> 
> Ed, you're in the affected area. I can't remember if have an HD box or not... if you do, can you run through each of the channels and see if you're getting any pixellated or non-working channels in the 400s?
> 
> 
> USAHD now doesn't work at all for me...it actually has a new screen saying "Tuning to USAHD", then tells me it failed. Other channels have pixellation, and a few of them work just fine.



Yes I'm experiencing heavy pixelization on several channels in the 400's on the 8300HD and like you said others are just fine. The local HD's seem to be fine. On the TiVo box, HD channels 430 and above are blank and some of those have a TiVo message saying channel not available. Here we go again...










The tuning adapter now has a solid green light though...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16267674
> 
> 
> Yes I'm experiencing heavy pixelization on several channels in the 400's on the 8300HD and like you said others are just fine. The local HD's seem to be fine. On the TiVo box, HD channels 430 and above are blank and some of those have a TiVo message saying channel not available. Here we go again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tuning adapter now has a solid green light though...



Wow, it sounds like SDV has F'ed up the Adelphia areas worse than my TV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16267674
> 
> 
> Yes I'm experiencing heavy pixelization on several channels in the 400's on the 8300HD and like you said others are just fine. The local HD's seem to be fine. On the TiVo box, HD channels 430 and above are blank and some of those have a TiVo message saying channel not available. Here we go again...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tuning adapter now has a solid green light though...



Ed you probably need to have them send you a hit and you'll be fine


----------



## nickdawg

Can you give us the numbers of the channels not working in the 400s? If it is happening on an 8300, it's gonna take more than a 'hit' for the cable card, as the cable cards in TWC's own boxes usually behave better. Plus Inundated has a similar problem.
Psssst! You might want to look into 585.000MHz (if you're reading, TWC!)


----------



## hookbill

I'm too tired to argue with you but if there s a major problem I can sum it up in one word: SARA


----------



## nickdawg

I hope the June 20-something TWC HD additions will include *MSNBC HD*. Since we're getting *CNBC HD* on April 29, *CNN HD* and *Fixed Noise HD* on May 26, we better be seeing MSNBC HD once it launches in June.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/04/m...on_june_29.php


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16267998
> 
> 
> I'm too tired to argue with you but if there s a major problem I can sum it up in one word: SARA



Uhhhh, no. I'm having a very similar problem to Inundated, and I have Navigator.


----------



## Inundated

I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the Problem Children HD channels were showing up as 585.0000 on the diagnostic screen.


Ed, I'm glad to hear you are in the same boat...not because I want you to sink







But you're on the same part of the old Adelphia system that I am. Bath feeds all of western Summit County and far eastern Medina County (Bath/Copley/Northampton, etc.).


I've personally been a customer of this system three times over the years - not long after Cablevision first built it out that far south of Cleveland, in Medina County's Sharon Township,..then when I moved back here in 2003, I had it as the former Adelphia in the Montrose area (Copley Twp. near 18 and 77/21)...and here, now, in the former Northampton Township.


All three areas are fed out of Bath, and always have been. (When I had Adelphia in Montrose, the Weather Channel's local forecasts showed Bath! They actually changed that to Akron somewhere along the way.)


Anyway, I'm glad Ed is reporting the problem. He lives nowhere near me, but he's on the same system, so it would presumably be something they have to fix. And nickdawg, I didn't know you were STILL having the problem.


TWC has to fix SDV.










hookbill, you don't have it yet because it sounds like they are doing it node by node, and so far, it sounds like Bath is the only one "lit up" for SDV in the old Adelphia region.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16268445
> 
> 
> I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the Problem Children HD channels were showing up as 585.0000 on the diagnostic screen.
> 
> 
> Ed, I'm glad to hear you are in the same boat...not because I want you to sink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you're on the same part of the old Adelphia system that I am. Bath feeds all of western Summit County and far eastern Medina County (Bath/Copley/Northampton, etc.).
> 
> 
> I've personally been a customer of this system three times over the years - not long after Cablevision first built it out that far south of Cleveland, in Medina County's Sharon Township,..then when I moved back here in 2003, I had it as the former Adelphia in the Montrose area (Copley Twp. near 18 and 77/21)...and here, now, in the former Northampton Township.
> 
> 
> All three areas are fed out of Bath, and always have been. (When I had Adelphia in Montrose, the Weather Channel's local forecasts showed Bath! They actually changed that to Akron somewhere along the way.)
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad Ed is reporting the problem. He lives nowhere near me, but he's on the same system, so it would presumably be something they have to fix. And nickdawg, I didn't know you were STILL having the problem.
> 
> 
> TWC has to fix SDV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hookbill, you don't have it yet because it sounds like they are doing it node by node, and so far, it sounds like Bath is the only one "lit up" for SDV in the old Adelphia region.



Well, arn't I lucky. They experimented with you first.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16268445
> 
> 
> I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty sure the Problem Children HD channels were showing up as 585.0000 on the diagnostic screen.
> 
> 
> Ed, I'm glad to hear you are in the same boat...not because I want you to sink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you're on the same part of the old Adelphia system that I am. Bath feeds all of western Summit County and far eastern Medina County (Bath/Copley/Northampton, etc.).
> 
> 
> I've personally been a customer of this system three times over the years - not long after Cablevision first built it out that far south of Cleveland, in Medina County's Sharon Township,..then when I moved back here in 2003, I had it as the former Adelphia in the Montrose area (Copley Twp. near 18 and 77/21)...and here, now, in the former Northampton Township.
> 
> 
> All three areas are fed out of Bath, and always have been. (When I had Adelphia in Montrose, the Weather Channel's local forecasts showed Bath! They actually changed that to Akron somewhere along the way.)
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad Ed is reporting the problem. He lives nowhere near me, but he's on the same system, so it would presumably be something they have to fix. And nickdawg, I didn't know you were STILL having the problem.
> 
> 
> TWC has to fix SDV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hookbill, you don't have it yet because it sounds like they are doing it node by node, and so far, it sounds like Bath is the only one "lit up" for SDV in the old Adelphia region.



I'm glad you're in the same boat too, and not because I want anyone to sink!







I flipped through all the channels with the diagnostics screen open and all the problems I observed were on channels that were on 585.000MHz. 573 and 597)the other two I have observed) appear to be working correctly. It sounds like there is more to this(as I originally thought) than just my box or my wiring. Unfortunately, I seem to be the only HDTV on my street(well at least the only one with TWC








). But I have seen a few more TWC vans in the area lately. One down the street today and one a street over yesterday.


What I'd like to know is why they don't disable 585.000MHz. Do they not observe what is going out over the lines? Could some outside source be causing interference with SDV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16268700



Very good nickdawg, lmao.


----------



## mnowlin




nickdawg said:


> What I'd like to know is why they don't disable 585.000MHz. Do they not observe what is going out over the lines? Could some outside source be causing interference with SDV?
> 
> 
> I'd almost put money down that the signal is clean coming out of their distribution points, and the signal is degraded by some outside influence. Bad lines, loose grounds, squirrels chewing on coax - take your pick. I suppose TW *could* monitor the QAM error rates on their customers' digital boxes, but that would open up a world of headaches for them... "Plausible deniability"...
> 
> 
> As for the interference on 585MHz, I poked around a bit. WYTV (channel 33) in Youngstown is on that same frequency, but they're too far away to be a likely source, and their signal is centered at 587MHz. However......
> 
> 
> 585.000 / 6 = 97.500 - Hmm, there's a 1000' tower in West Akron pumping out about a zillion watts... Add in the fact that a bad connection or open cable drop in your neighbor's house can affect the entire neighborhood, and...


----------



## nickdawg




mnowlin said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16268700
> 
> 
> What I'd like to know is why they don't disable 585.000MHz. Do they not observe what is going out over the lines? Could some outside source be causing interference with SDV?
> 
> 
> I'd almost put money down that the signal is clean coming out of their distribution points, and the signal is degraded by some outside influence. Bad lines, loose grounds, squirrels chewing on coax - take your pick. I suppose TW *could* monitor the QAM error rates on their customers' digital boxes, but that would open up a world of headaches for them... "Plausible deniability"...
> 
> 
> As for the interference on 585MHz, I poked around a bit. WYTV (channel 33) in Youngstown is on that same frequency, but they're too far away to be a likely source, and their signal is centered at 587MHz. However......
> 
> 
> 585.000 / 6 = 97.500 - Hmm, there's a 1000' tower in West Akron pumping out about a zillion watts... Add in the fact that a bad connection or open cable drop in your neighbor's house can affect the entire neighborhood, and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're down in our area, have you seen any issues with any of the SDV channels? We discussed the channel 33 frequency issue here before, and it did seem unlikely here in Summit County, as I have never been able to get 33 OTA. But 97.500 makes sense, that would be strong enough to have an effect on TVs in Akron, Bath, Copley, etc. I know the problem is not in my house, as all my wiring was checked and I tried my box connected directly to the main cable line without any splitters. If it is a connection problem, it would have to be somewhere outside. I'll have to bring that up when the outside line person shows up.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vchat20

My question is have you tried (anyone with this problem in particular) hooking an analog set up to the line directly and manually tuning to channel 84 in CATV mode (centers on 585mhz) and compare to the other channels to see if the visual static looks any different? Anything at all out of whack to mention, etc..


I know I probably mentioned this thought before, but my brain's shot right now and can't recall if anyone came back with a result.


(Though if the interference is only bad enough to just cause pixelization and not a total dropout, the interference is probably not the cause of some major ingress let alone visible to the naked eye on an analog set.)


We now have our signal diagnostics back (at least those of us with Navigator), what's the downstream and SNR levels look like on the tuner locked into 585? -15 to +15 (0 is perfect usually) with an SNR above 30 (35+ is good, but anything above 30 is 'usually' sufficient for digital services). If the signal displayed by your box is good, the channel problems /ARE/ upstream and out of your control. Something I'd continue to complain to TWC about.


I'd help investigate, but fortunately all the new SDV channels have been perfect lately here in the legacy area. Not even any 'channel unavailable' errors. And I've even repeatedly recorded shows off USA HD, Discovery HD, and Palladia HD, sometimes two at the same time; /WITH AN SA NAVIGATOR BOX!/; not a glitch.


----------



## mnowlin




nickdawg said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16269068
> 
> 
> You're down in our area, have you seen any issues with any of the SDV channels?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did see some minor dropouts on my recording of Dirty Jobs on Discovery HD, but can't tell which SDV frequency it was on. I'll try to watch Mythbusters live tomorrow - if there are problems, I can look at the Tivo diag screens and see which frequency it's tuned to.
Click to expand...


----------



## nickdawg

See, you live in Warren, which is farther away from the location of the 97.500 tower. I found it on Google maps. Over by Copley Road, so if this is the culprit, it makes sense that Inundated and Ed are seeing even worse results(not available, black screens).

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=41.064...&iwloc=A&hl=en 


Right now I have two problem channels tuned. One tuner has video/audio PID numbers, one just shows zeroes for those items. Both are 585.000MHz (Discovery and Palladia). Palladia worked this morning when I recorded.


QAM Statistics

Freq: 585.000MHz

Ch. Lock: Locked

Tuning Mode: QAM256

Tuner BER (avg) 1.26x10-2

Power Level 4 dBmV

SNR: 35 dB


QAM2 Statistics

Freq: 585.000 MHz

CH lock: Locked

Tuning Mode QAM256

Tuner BER (avg) 1.26x10-2

Power Level 4dBmV

SNR 35dB

-----------------

Now, I compare that to a working SDV channel:

Freq: 597.000MHz

Ch Lock: Locked

Tuning Mode QAM256

Tuner BER (avg) 0

Power Level 4 dBmV

SNR 35 dB


Corrected Bytes 0

Uncorrected Blks 0


On the problem channels, Corrected Bytes/Uncorrected Blks was a constantly changing number.


----------



## mnowlin

IIRC, the BER is supposed to be at YYYx10-6 or YYYx10-7. If you're seeing x10-2, that's a huge amount of errors, almost unwatchable.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16266605
> 
> 
> They told me it had no HDMI port. On my TV, I was getting a less sharp pic from component video input than I was from HDMI. This was true for video signals from my 8300HD and from my Denon 3910 DVD player. PQ is often the same from HDMI and component, but not always--other people have reported this, too.
> 
> 
> So once I found out that the replacement they were offering (which they didn't even have in stock) had "no HDMI" (their words), I was not interested. Also, on my end of the cable, "no HDMI" and "HMDI port that was not activated" are equivalent, of course.



Understand.










I have heard that, but it goes both ways. Component can have the sharper/crisper picture over HDMI as well, depending on settings.


Did you calibrate your TV to each input type? i.e. Complete calibration for HDMI then another complete calibration for Component?


Using factory default settings on a TV (tweaked for display purposes for show room floor) can result in such a disparity for the two input types.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16269413
> 
> 
> Understand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard that, but it goes both ways. Component can have the sharper/crisper picture over HDMI as well, depending on settings.
> 
> 
> Did you calibrate your TV to each input type? i.e. Complete calibration for HDMI then another complete calibration for Component?
> 
> 
> Using factory default settings on a TV (tweaked for display purposes for show room floor) can result in such a disparity for the two input types.



I have a point on this too. If you were not suppose to get a better picture then component, then why did they ever come come up with the now antiquated DVI?


DVI was set up to give you a better picture then component. In addition in my manual it has a listing of what gives you a better picture and HDMI is listed as "best."


Now I admit I can't see the difference, but I'm not a videophile and I've never even tried component on my 30LG37. However I'm pretty convinced after thinking it over that HDMI is at least suppose to have a better pq then component, as would DVI.


----------



## hookbill

For the record, no changes over night in my area. I guess they want to deal with the problems they have in the first area of SARA they started with and then hopefully they have it ready to go when it gets to my house.


BTW the reason I said Ed probably just needs a hit delivered to his cards to receive the missing channels is because he now has a solid green light on his tuning adapter. That would indicate to me that if he has them send a hit it should light up the remainder of the channels.


As one who has had cable cards for almost three years now I kind of know what makes them work and what doesn't. Granted I haven't experienced the tuner adapter but common sense tells me, green light, hit to cards will at least get rid of the "channel not available" message he's getting on his TiVo.


----------



## JJkizak

Hookbill:

I believe DVI is video only with a separate cable for sound hence, HDMI video with sound.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/16269812
> 
> 
> Hookbill:
> 
> I believe DVI is video only with a separate cable for sound hence, HDMI video with sound.
> 
> JJK



I know that. My point is that HDMI was created to bring a digital picture and sound which in theory would be better then component. DVI is picture only created before HDMI.


----------



## bassguitarman

By the way 585 Mhz is TV analog channel 33, though I would doubt that leakage into the system from that station in Youngstown would cause this problem.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16269847
> 
> 
> I know that. My point is that HDMI was created to bring a digital picture and sound which in theory would be better then component. DVI is picture only created before HDMI.



HDMI is no better in PQ, it's only real technical advantages are speed (mostly computer usage) and higher bandwidth. The only current need in A/V for HDMI is increased bandwidth for high bitrate multi-channel audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA, SACD, DVD-Audio) and even this is not "required" as you can achieve the same results with a source device and AVR with analog multi-channel Inputs/Outputs. But this workaround is a major PITA requiring 8 analog cable sets just for audio (enter convenience factor







)


In the future there *may* be video enhancements that would also require the extended bandwidth capabilities of HDMI (beyond 1080p resolutions, Deep Color, etc...). But these are not even in use yet and some of the proposed future video enhancements may never come to life.


Beyond the convenience of a single cable for all video and all audio needs there is little else HDMI offers in the current A/V world.

I love HDMI, I use HDMI where applicable, I'm not knocking it. It just isn't needed in a cable/sat/ota environment.


If there is a difference in PQ between HDMI and Component then something is wrong in the video chain. In fact, professional home theatre installers often avoid HDMI where possible as they know there is a far greater likelihood of tech support issues and consumer problems with the many issues HDMI brings to CE devices (incompatibilities, hand shake, flaky connections, etc...)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16269295
> 
> 
> IIRC, the BER is supposed to be at YYYx10-6 or YYYx10-7. If you're seeing x10-2, that's a huge amount of errors, almost unwatchable.



Yes. The x10-2 is from the channels that are an unwatchable mess or a black screen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16270138
> 
> 
> HDMI is no better in PQ, it's only real technical advantages are speed (mostly computer usage) and higher bandwidth. The only current need in A/V for HDMI is increased bandwidth for high bitrate multi-channel audio (TrueHD, DTS-MA, SACD, DVD-Audio) and even this is not "required" as you can achieve the same results with a source device and AVR with analog multi-channel Inputs/Outputs. But this workaround is a major PITA requiring 8 analog cable sets just for audio (enter convenience factor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> In the future there *may* be video enhancements that would also require the extended bandwidth capabilities of HDMI (beyond 1080p resolutions, Deep Color, etc...). But these are not even in use yet and some of the proposed future video enhancements may never come to life.
> 
> 
> Beyond the convenience of a single cable for all video and all audio needs there is little else HDMI offers in the current A/V world.
> 
> I love HDMI, I use HDMI where applicable, I'm not knocking it. It just isn't needed in a cable/sat/ota environment.
> 
> 
> If there is a difference in PQ between HDMI and Component then something is wrong in the video chain. In fact, professional home theatre installers often avoid HDMI where possible as they know there is a far greater likelihood of tech support issues and consumer problems with the many issues HDMI brings to CE devices (incompatibilities, hand shake, flaky connections, etc...)



I can't see the difference but how can a digital signal not be better then component? It doesn't make sense.


I guess will just have to disagree about this.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16270349
> 
> 
> I can't see the difference but how can a digital signal not be better then component? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> 
> I guess will just have to disagree about this.



You not seeing the difference is exactly my point, few can.


Doing a quick google search, here is a write up explaining the three different HD video connections and why one may render a better PQ than another. As the article explains, it can be dependent on the source device, end point device (TV), or any device or cable in the video chain.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...79/122868.html 


If the source, interconnect, and TV are of decent build quality it should not make a difference. Using such good quality devices, calibrated properly, I defy anyone to tell me which TV is using HDMI and which is using Component.










ex: I brought one of my OPPO players (one of the best upconverting DVD players on the market) to a friends who wanted to see the "HDMI difference" on his factory default 50" plasma. His Component connected cable box and DVD player rendered a nice picture. His HDMI port via the OPPO was unwatchable. I didn't do a calibration, and as I suspected the HDMI video processing for his make & model is not well regarded on consumer review sites. It can vary greatly.


----------



## toby10

Anyone catch this? You know things are bad when one of the highest regarded HD TV brands can't keep pace with competitors.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123398482356760019.html 


On the upside, one of the major deciding factors to make such an exit is directly related to Pioneer's competitors reducing HD panel prices much deeper and much faster than anticipated.


----------



## stuart628

Toby dont forget about HDCP (did I miss that somewhere in what you wrote, if I did I apologize) if you hook up your Box via component then your set will fail when a station runs HDCP (HBO is starting to do this I believe, and the sat companies are using it as well with some of their MRV). So another upside to HDMI is the HDCP factor, and I ASS-U-ME stations will begin using this more in the near future.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16262152
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the 135 mo for sat included a lot more ch's than the TWC pkg you are comparing it too.



I actually have 8 boxes on my account (yes I know I know thats alot of tvs) but thats a positive with time warner is 5 of the tvs we use have QAM tuners and we use those for Locals and Sports only and really dont need HD on them so I can save on about25 bucks right there, my break down when all is said and done is this


Directv


75.99-Channels (over 200)+HD+DVR

5.99-Protection Plan Fee

12.99-Sports pack

4.99 leased reciever fee (we have 8 recievers so times this by 8.)

7.31 sales tax (stupid state of ohio







)

plus the 35 a month for internet (att dsl)

_______________

177.20


Time Warner would be


121 plus taxes as I would have 3 boxes (2 HD DVR, and 1 regular HD Box) then plug rest of tvs in and this includes internet.


so really I think the big thing is this, if I needed boxes for all tvs with time warner then I probably wouldnt save, but because I dont need boxes with time warner that is where the savings is coming in.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16271541
> 
> 
> ........
> 
> Directv
> 
> 
> 75.99-Channels (over 200)+HD+DVR
> 
> 5.99-Protection Plan Fee
> 
> 12.99-Sports pack
> 
> 4.99 leased reciever fee (we have 8 recievers so times this by 8.)
> 
> 7.31 sales tax (stupid state of ohio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> plus the 35 a month for internet (att dsl)
> 
> _______________
> 
> 177.20
> 
> 
> ..............



Yes, now it makes more sense.







$76 compared to TWC's $85 (guesstimates)


And, yes, HDCP is another issue to throw into the HDMI vs Component mix. I just didn't want the OP to fall into the "you need HDMI" trap that many consumers get wrangled into due to confusion, assumptions it must be better, aggressive Best Buy salesman, or even the CE industry purposefully making HDMI confusing for the average consumer.










HDMI, when it works, is a great tool in the A/V arsenal. When it doesn't work (as it is supposed to) it can become a consumer nightmare of finger pointing and incompatibilities. Luckily all of my HDMI devices play nice together, but I have many friends and relatives who have not been so lucky.


----------



## yespage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16271541
> 
> 
> I actually have 8 boxes on my account (yes I know I know thats alot of tvs) but thats a positive with time warner is 5 of the tvs we use have QAM tuners and we use those for Locals and Sports only and really dont need HD on them so I can save on about25 bucks right there, my break down when all is said and done is this



That looks about right, if not atypical. 8 boxes would put you over with Directv. I don't even know if you can have eight boxes with Directv, ie... limited by the number of hookups to the dish.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16271889
> 
> 
> HDMI, when it works, is a great tool in the A/V arsenal. When it doesn't work (as it is supposed to) it can become a consumer nightmare of finger pointing and incompatibilities. Luckily all of my HDMI devices play nice together, but I have many friends and relatives who have not been so lucky.



Huh. I've never had a problem with it. And that's even with the SA 8300.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16271889
> 
> 
> Yes, now it makes more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $76 compared to TWC's $85 (guesstimates)
> 
> 
> And, yes, HDCP is another issue to throw into the HDMI vs Component mix. I just didn't want the OP to fall into the "you need HDMI" trap that many consumers get wrangled into due to confusion, assumptions it must be better, aggressive Best Buy salesman, or even the CE industry purposefully making HDMI confusing for the average consumer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI, when it works, is a great tool in the A/V arsenal. When it doesn't work (as it is supposed to) it can become a consumer nightmare of finger pointing and incompatibilities. Luckily all of my HDMI devices play nice together, but I have many friends and relatives who have not been so lucky.



I actually agree with you, I have a onkyo 606 and my s350 bluray player Sounds amazing with dolby trueHD and DTSMA....now when I am done watching a bluray and want to flip on my directv to check a score or watch news before I go to bed, Hand Shaking issues ALWAYS get me and I dont know why, I have to turn off the onkyo and turn it back on, to get the HR21 to even show up. so yeah HDMI can be VERY finiky, and be a big headache for your average Joe.


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yespage* /forum/post/16271890
> 
> 
> That looks about right, if not atypical. 8 boxes would put you over with Directv. I don't even know if you can have eight boxes with Directv, ie... limited by the number of hookups to the dish.



why not the have 8 port switches and 16 port switches, if you want to pay for it, they will let you have it. trust me, I am not doing account stacking or have recievers in cabins, they are all in my home.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/16271995
> 
> 
> I actually agree with you, I have a onkyo 606 and my s350 bluray player Sounds amazing with dolby trueHD and DTSMA....now when I am done watching a bluray and want to flip on my directv to check a score or watch news before I go to bed, Hand Shaking issues ALWAYS get me and I dont know why, I have to turn off the onkyo and turn it back on, to get the HR21 to even show up. so yeah HDMI can be VERY finiky, and be a big headache for your average Joe.



Uh huh. Exactly my point.










Unfortunately, not uncommon.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stilesec* /forum/post/16254295
> 
> 
> Hi All. I just got my new antennas hooked up. I am 50 - 60 miles from the cleveland stations and am getting a great signal on all the uhf channels. However, I can't get squat out of the vhf. WKYC (3 - NBC) gets nothing and WOIO (10 - CBS) gets a bit of signal but not enough to view. WKYC moves to UHF in June so I am hoping that fixes that problem. However WOIO is moving from 19 to 10. I can get a snowy analog WOIO signal on 19 now. *My43 WUAB is supposedly on the same tower* and I get a signal strength of 70 and a great picture on that station. Nothing on WOIO - 10 though. Anybody have some recommendations about how to pull in WOIO - 10? New equipment is ok.
> 
> 
> Winegard HD 5030 VHF Antenna
> 
> Antennas Direct 91XG UHF
> 
> ChannelMaster 7777 Pre-Amp
> 
> 2 - Perfect Vision PVDP2 Diplexer Dual Satellite Dish TV Antenna Combiners
> 
> TIVO HD
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance everyone.



Nope. WUAB has it's own tower at the opposite end of the antenna farm from WOIO. While Raycom has an "LMA" for WUAB the towers for both stations were erected back when they were separate entities. Today, the only tower with multiple TV stations on it is WBNX, which has virtually every LPTV station (35, 53 & 65) farther down the stick. Once it get erected, WKYC and WVIZ will be on the same stick. Today WVIZ is sitting on WKYC's back-up tower, so technically it's not yet sharing the same tower.


Tower-wise: WUAB is next door to WEWS. Both are just north of WJW.

The rest are in a row starting with WKYC on Broadview RD just above Ridgewood DR., with WOIO, WBNX and WQHS behind WKYC and along Ridgewood (btw it's the "Ridgewood Row's" tower lights that illuminate my back yard







)


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16255708
> 
> 
> This will come of interest to you, from OMW :
> 
> 
> AS EXPLAINED IN IDEASTREAM'S REQUEST FOR ALTERNATIVE BUILDOUT, WVIZ'S FINAL AUTHORIZED DTV FACILITY IS TO BE LOCATED ON A NEW TOWER TO BE SHARED WITH STATION WKYC-DT. THE CONSTRUCTION OF THAT TOWER HAD BEEN UNEXPECTEDLY DELAYED (SEE, STA REQUEST OF WKYC-TV, INC., FCC FILE NO. BDSTA-20081201AWR AND MONTHLY FCC FORM 387 UPDATES FILED BY WKYC-TV, INC.). WHILE COMPLETION OF A FINAL FACILITY TO MEET A FEBRUARY 17, 2009 DEADLINE WAS NOT POSSIBLE, IDEASTREAM UNDERSTANDS FROM WKYC-TV, INC. THAT THE NEW TOWER WILL BE COMPLETED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE NEW JUNE 12, 2009 DEADLINE.
> 
> 
> According to the report the tower probably won't light up until 6/12.



After the initial section of the new WKYC/WVIZ tower went up about 2 weeks ago, I saw no further work going on. At the time I had the opportunity to see the new tower daily from the parking lot of my church. I was expecting it to grow taller day by day but that was not the case.


----------



## nickdawg

I just noticed that now there is a huge letter "5" bug on screen on WEWHD during Wheel. THaNks, I had no clue what channel I was watching and would be lost without your little flying bug!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16268700





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16268712
> 
> 
> Very good nickdawg, lmao.



Thanks!







Notice that I even blew up the little "c" from cable to make the "c" in Crime match in their font. Too bad the image didn't show up in the IMG tags in my signature line.


----------



## dleising

Anyone noticing that it is looking like the WEWS-SD cable feed is now a simulcast of the DT channel? Bugs look different, but not much of a difference in PQ.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16275600
> 
> 
> Anyone noticing that it is looking like the WEWS-SD cable feed is now a simulcast of the DT channel? Bugs look different, but not much of a difference in PQ.



Yes. The main thing I noticed is the idiots at ABC have their bug in the wrong damn spot. Now channel 5 (according to the bug on a SDTV) is "ab". The bug is all the way in the corner. Even on my HDTV, the "abc" bug is flirting with the right sidebar.


I'm happy to see this. At least TWC is getting closer to "post June 12" way of doing things. I remember some other channels were doing this on TWC a few months back, but I think FOX went back to using the SD network/affiliate feed. I hope WKYC is next. To use the DT channel simulcast for SD would be perfect, finally an end to the horrid letterbox picture!


----------



## Vchat20

You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land.







Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.


We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16276021
> 
> 
> Yes. The main thing I noticed is the idiots at ABC have their bug in the wrong damn spot. Now channel 5 (according to the bug on a SDTV) is "ab". The bug is all the way in the corner. Even on my HDTV, the "abc" bug is flirting with the right sidebar.
> 
> 
> I'm happy to see this. At least TWC is getting closer to "post June 12" way of doing things. I remember some other channels were doing this on TWC a few months back, but I think FOX went back to using the SD network/affiliate feed. I hope WKYC is next. To use the DT channel simulcast for SD would be perfect, finally an end to the horrid letterbox picture!



I noticed that too. WJW looked better that way too, but they went back for some reason...


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276099
> 
> 
> You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.
> 
> 
> We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)



Consider yourself lucky to have the Youngstown affiliates. At least your CBS-SD cable picture doesn't have cataracts like WOIO!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276099
> 
> 
> You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.
> 
> 
> We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)



Trust me when I tell you it will be years before we have all digital.


Being to close to low income Cleveland TW is not going to lose all those people still relying on analog basic. So we will continue to have this awful upgraded analog to digital on local SD channel.


That is why I watch just the HD channels except WBNX which is still shown in analog.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16276248
> 
> 
> Trust me when I tell you it will be years before we have all digital.
> 
> 
> Being to close to low income Cleveland TW is not going to lose all those people still relying on analog basic. So we will continue to have this awful upgraded analog to digital on local SD channel.
> 
> 
> That is why I watch just the HD channels except WBNX which is still shown in analog.



Hey, we have lots of low income areas around here. Doesn't mean we haven't been able to simulcast channels 2-99 in digital to digital cable customers while keeping analog around for basic customers. Can't see why they haven't been able to do the same for you guys up there.


This is also another reason (though probably a bit of a stretch) that these boxes could fail prematurely and that's because tuning into those analog channels they have to first encode the incoming signal to digital before anything else is done with it.


For a while here we still had the couple public access channels in pure analog even on the STBs and when you'd sit on them for any decent amount of time the box would start throwing off a bit of heat from the general area of one of the larger chips (I assume being the mpeg2 encoder) in addition to recordings using WAY much more hard disk space than they really need to for an SD program. Digital SD channels use much less disk space, less thrashing of the drive, and less stress and heat on the box in general (0 use of the mpeg2 encoder and decoding is much less intensive than encoding.).


As far as channel layouts are concerned, is there really a whole lot of difference between of the legacy areas here and ex-adelphia territory up there? I assume since the major lineup change last year, everything 100+ matches in both areas? What's the channel count on 2-99 look like? If we can keep the amount of analogs we have now, simulcast those, AND have all these digital channels and new HD's thanks to SDV, I can't see how you guys can't get fed digital simulcast versions of your analogs. That's just absolutely draconian here in 2009.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16276245
> 
> 
> Consider yourself lucky to have the Youngstown affiliates. At least your CBS-SD cable picture doesn't have cataracts like WOIO!



Actually, I feel damn lucky cause we get both Youngstown AND Cleveland affiliates.







Well, for the big 3 ABC, CBS, and NBC anyway.


2-WEAO/WNEO (No idea which one. tvguide.com says WEAO, coulda swore myself it was WNEO. Same **** different transmitter though. *shrug*)

3-WKYC

4-WFMJ

5-WEWS

6-WKBN

7-WYTV

8-WJW

10-WYFX

11-WOIO

14-WBCB


With the same going for the HD simulcasts of those (all except for WBCB which kinda blows. We get no HD WB channel down here.). I actually take a huge advantage of this and record primetime network programming mostly on the cleveland networks since they have the HD equipment and won't cut the shows all the way back down to window-boxed SD every time they need to run a weather crawl or lottery numbers.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276099
> 
> 
> You guys need to get a boot up TWC's rear up there in ex-Adelphia land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Between of being stuck with the analog OTA feeds for locals on the SD channels and even having 2-99 be fed analog on the STB's, I really feel bad for you.
> 
> 
> We're still running the DTV channel feeds here even with the shutoff date moved. In particular, WYFX is centercut (right now Two and a Half Men is on which is a 4:3 program and on my SD set the 'Fox Youngstown' logo is cut off on the bottom right corner. I see the F and half the O in FOX and 'youngs' in youngstown.)



When WJW was Digital, the "FOX 8-1 WJW-DT Cleveland" bug on non-network programming looked funny. There was just a big "FOX" and part of "Cleve" showing. And these idiots are still using the damn bug! Even though I complained about 5's bug, at least 5 has their bug in the RIGHT place, which is more than can be said about their network, ABC.


I liked the digital WJW because FOX's stupid analog letterbox was avoided, plus, since the primetime FOX bug is in the right sidebar area, the SD channel had a bug-free primetime presentation.







I get the feeling it is that reason that the digital version of WJW is gone for now. I don't think FOX was too happy with a bug free broadcast. How would people know what they are watching?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276368
> 
> 
> Actually, I feel damn lucky cause we get both Youngstown AND Cleveland affiliates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for the big 3 ABC, CBS, and NBC anyway.
> 
> 
> 2-WEAO/WNEO (No idea which one. tvguide.com says WEAO, coulda swore myself it was WNEO. Same **** different transmitter though. *shrug*)
> 
> 3-WKYC
> 
> 4-WFMJ
> 
> 5-WEWS
> 
> 6-WKBN
> 
> 7-WYTV
> 
> 8-WJW
> 
> 10-WYFX
> 
> 11-WOIO
> 
> 14-WBCB



You're lucky!! There are many times I wish I could turn to the Youngstown stations, when Cleveland does something stupid. Plus, with TRASH on our lineup like WDLI, WOAC, WAOH; I'd rather have something worth watching instead of religious infomercial crap.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16276226
> 
> 
> I noticed that too. WJW looked better that way too, but they went back for some reason...



There was a period of "technical difficulties" a few months back when they were changing things. But my real guess is that FOX was pissed since their HD bug isn't visible on SDTVs, like the other networks. It was nice because of the improved PQ and the bug free picture on all programming. You know FOX had to be pissed over that!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16276245
> 
> 
> Consider yourself lucky to have the Youngstown affiliates. At least your CBS-SD cable picture doesn't have cataracts like WOIO!



WOIO is unwatchable! I don't know if it is analog or DT right now on TWC, but it is hideous. Even analog OTA 19 with old rabbit ears looks better than TWC's "digital" version of SD WOIO. It looks like Vasoline is smeared on the TV screen.


----------



## nickdawg

Here, I'll show you what the problem is with ABC's bug. I found an episode of _Samantha Who_ from a few weeks back that had the bug in the correct location. And last week's episode with the bug in the wrong spot.


Here's where the bug should be:










Here's where the bug currently is. It's WRONG:










About the lines. I borrowed the FOX network bug specifications and the lines that mark various items.


White: DTV Picture Safe area. For HDTVs that have some overscan.

Magenta: CinemaScope Letterbox (2.35:1 movie presentations)

Light Green: 4:3 safe (in the most liberal sense of the term, IMO)


The dark blue lines are my own creation. Based on what I saw on WEWS SD, I judged about where the on-screen items(TV Rating, Network Bug) were with the sidebars, and inserted the blue lines.


The funny thing is even though the bug is in the wrong spot, the ads after commercial breaks are in the right spot. Wouldn't want those ads cut off!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276324
> 
> 
> Hey, we have lots of low income areas around here. Doesn't mean we haven't been able to simulcast channels 2-99 in digital to digital cable customers while keeping analog around for basic customers. Can't see why they haven't been able to do the same for you guys up there.
> 
> 
> This is also another reason (though probably a bit of a stretch) that these boxes could fail prematurely and that's because tuning into those analog channels they have to first encode the incoming signal to digital before anything else is done with it.
> 
> 
> For a while here we still had the couple public access channels in pure analog even on the STBs and when you'd sit on them for any decent amount of time the box would start throwing off a bit of heat from the general area of one of the larger chips (I assume being the mpeg2 encoder) in addition to recordings using WAY much more hard disk space than they really need to for an SD program. Digital SD channels use much less disk space, less thrashing of the drive, and less stress and heat on the box in general (0 use of the mpeg2 encoder and decoding is much less intensive than encoding.).
> 
> 
> As far as channel layouts are concerned, is there really a whole lot of difference between of the legacy areas here and ex-adelphia territory up there? I assume since the major lineup change last year, everything 100+ matches in both areas? What's the channel count on 2-99 look like? If we can keep the amount of analogs we have now, simulcast those, AND have all these digital channels and new HD's thanks to SDV, I can't see how you guys can't get fed digital simulcast versions of your analogs. That's just absolutely draconian here in 2009.



The big difference in Legacy according to nickdawg and our area is that all of our channels under 99 are analog except for the upgraded locals that are analog to digital, not simulcast. Unless that has changed as someone else reported, I will check this morning and get back to you.


However I am quite confident that all of the remaining channels are analog in the described range. According to nickdawg legacy TW is 100% digital.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16277551
> 
> 
> The big difference in Legacy according to nickdawg and our area is that all of our channels under 99 are analog except for the upgraded locals that are analog to digital, not simulcast. Unless that has changed as someone else reported, I will check this morning and get back to you.
> 
> 
> However I am quite confident that all of the remaining channels are analog in the described range. According to nickdawg legacy TW is 100% digital.



No, we are FAR from being 100% digital. I still have 3 tv's in this house directly hooked to the cable line without boxes that work. There are too many 'poor' areas around here just the same to force everyone to buy a box to keep their channels. Not for a long while anyhow.


I think what nickdawg was actually referring to by 100% digital is that if you have an STB, 2-99 is digitally simulcast to you instead of analog in addition to everything 100+. Which is exactly what I have been referring to.


Up there in the ex-adelphia area they really should not have any reason to not digitally simulcast 2-99 for you guys too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16277566
> 
> 
> No, we are FAR from being 100% digital. I still have 3 tv's in this house directly hooked to the cable line without boxes that work. There are too many 'poor' areas around here just the same to force everyone to buy a box to keep their channels. Not for a long while anyhow.
> 
> 
> I think what nickdawg was actually referring to by 100% digital is that if you have an STB, 2-99 is digitally simulcast to you instead of analog in addition to everything 100+. Which is exactly what I have been referring to.
> 
> 
> Up there in the ex-adelphia area they really should not have any reason to not digitally simulcast 2-99 for you guys too.



When you say digitally simulcast are you referring to analog to digital conversion or a real digital simulcast?


I think you have real digital simulcast and that's the difference. Our channels with the box are still in analog except for the locals which are upgraded from analog to digital and quit frankly look like crap. WBNX as I said the lone exception, it never was on digital and still isn't to this day (for us).


Now I have a clearer picture of what you're talking about if it is the way I described. And you're right if you can get it why can't we?


To the best of my knowledge still no signs of SDV in my area, and considering all the problems it seemed to have caused in exAdelphia SARA land I'm kind of glad they are delaying it. Hopefully they will fix that before trying it again, but who knows?


----------



## Vchat20

Yep You got it. Here in legacy territory, the STB's get channels 2-99 invluding the locals and cable stations all in digital just like you get from the digital package channels up in the 100s, 200s, etc.. This is in addition though to those same channels still being available in analog for tv sets without any boxes.


Digital boxes get them in digital, regular tv's get them in analog. Same channels, same programming, same channel positions.


But it's been well covered that you guys still get them in yucky analog even if you have a box which is really uncalled for these days especially with all these upgrades going on. They need to get you all up to speed.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276368
> 
> 
> 2-WEAO/WNEO (No idea which one. tvguide.com says WEAO, coulda swore myself it was WNEO. Same **** different transmitter though. *shrug*)



Oddly enough, over here in the TWC/ex-Adelphia/Cleveland system, the station is listed on the cable box guide as WNEO, though we're certainly getting WEAO.


I think what happened is that you guys are now getting the WEAO feed sent to you out of TWC's Cleveland/Akron systems (my guess - via the headend in North Canton).


I think 45/49 had to bring in WEAO for you Youngstown market folks back in November, when WNEO shut down its analog, and had no feed in either analog or digital for about a week and change until the new digital 45 went up.


It's probably unchanged, as TWC likely already sent you the Cleveland market stations via pickup here, not there. It's just one more to send over, and as you say, there's no programming difference.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16276368
> 
> 
> With the same going for the HD simulcasts of those (all except for WBCB which kinda blows. We get no HD WB channel down here.).



I don't think there is an HD version of WBCB. Unlike WKBN and "Fox Youngstown", WFMJ still sends out an SD version via DT 21.2, and I don't think they have a cable-only HD feed for WBCB.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16277696
> 
> 
> But it's been well covered that you guys still get them in yucky analog even if you have a box which is really uncalled for these days especially with all these upgrades going on. They need to get you all up to speed.



Not only that, the mirrors of the analog channels in the over-100s are actually literally mirrors of the analog channels, even on digital cable boxes! If you tune to 350 for CNN, it's the exact same feed as analog 34.


Sigh.


----------



## hookbill

I think this has been discussed before but I'm not clear. So now on June 12 what is TW going to do? Are they going to give us digital locals at least or are they going to do something really dumb like convert digital to analog and then convert it to digital?


----------



## hookbill

I've got a huge delay in broadcast time between WKYC & STO. STO is at least one full sentence ahead of WKYC.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16277551
> 
> 
> However I am quite confident that all of the remaining channels are analog in the described range. According to nickdawg legacy TW is 100% digital.



Yes, with a box. I've totally disregarded crappy, old analog broadcasts without a box, even though they are still (UNFORTUNATELY) there. (sigh)







As far as I'm concerned, and for the AVS *HDTV* Programming topic, we are 100% digital because all the channels on our HDTV STBs are digital. Our area could use the new, digital only tuner version of the new Sammy DVR.


Also, I think it is a Digital==>Analog conversion. I think they're using a digital source because I have seen on a rare occasion macroblocking on an analog TV set, which had to be from the source.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16281171
> 
> 
> Yes, with a box. I've totally disregarded crappy, old analog broadcasts without a box, even though they are still (UNFORTUNATELY) there. (sigh)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, and for the AVS *HDTV* Programming topic, we are 100% digital because all the channels on our HDTV STBs are digital. Our area could use the new, digital only tuner version of the new Sammy DVR.
> 
> 
> Also, I think it is a Digital==>Analog conversion. I think they're using a digital source because I have seen on a rare occasion macroblocking on an analog TV set, which had to be from the source.



Well, then that positively sucks. I hate the conversions, I'd rather just have analog.


Just because it's digital doesn't make it better.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16275600
> 
> 
> Anyone noticing that it is looking like the WEWS-SD cable feed is now a simulcast of the DT channel? Bugs look different, but not much of a difference in PQ.



It's the same thing on E* (Dish Network). The ABC bug is just "AB".


NBC used to broadcast in letterbox on their analog feed, that makes more sense than just cropping the 16x9 picture for 4X3 screens. It must be standard practice now just to crop instead of a letterbox.


Even WNEO/WEAO is cropped. I compared the SD satellite picture with 49.2. 49.2 looked better (letterbox with the "Western Reserve PBS" logo below the letterbox). The satellite feed has the HD feed cropped with a somewhat cropped "Western Reserve" logo off the true HD feed.


WRPBS goes through all the trouble to send a correct 4x3 SD picture and they don't even use it! Ironically they added the true HD feed to the satellite feed yet, I still have to use an OTA antenna. I don't mind personally since OTA works great here and is integrated in the EPG. I even get guide data for nearly every subchannel! Having OTA also means I get WKBN/WYFX, guide data and all. I presume DirecTV's HD DVR's are similar.


While it looks stupid to get WRPBS on 5 different channels in the EPG, I have a choice: WNEO HD ota, WNEO SD ota, WEAO SD (via satellite, cropped HD feed), WEAO HD ota,and WEAO SD ota. I guess I could delete WNEO ota but my main antenna is aimed at Youngstown (that and the fact that unlike WKBN, WNEO is not received 24/7).


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ajstan99* /forum/post/16251368
> 
> 
> rluyster - I get what you're saying. Now might be a good time to start a "Cleveland, OH - OTA" thread, as this has become, first and foremost, a "Cleveland, OH - TWC/Adelphia" thread.
> 
> 
> No knock on the TWC gang intended. Good for them that they have used this thread to their advantage. If I ever switch to TWC, I'll be glad that they're here.
> 
> 
> toby10, I tried your suggestion regarding searching for "OTA", but it doesn't really work in practice unless every OTA-related post has the word "OTA" in it, which is hardly the case.
> 
> 
> IMHO, it's exponentially easier to subscribe to a new OTA thread, than try to pick through the main conversation for OTA tidbits here and there.
> 
> 
> rluyster, if you create "Cleveland, OH - OTA", I'll definitely subscribe.



Sorry to take so long to respond to your comments, I was out of town for a few days. Do you know what the AVS procedure is for creating a new thread? No disrespect towards the cable folks intended but I do think the Cleveland market should have a separate OTA thread like the other larger markets already have.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/16281842
> 
> 
> Sorry to take so long to respond to your comments, I was out of town for a few days. Do you know what the AVS procedure is for creating a new thread? No disrespect towards the cable folks intended but I do think the Cleveland market should have a separate OTA thread like the other larger markets already have.



Go here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=45 


Then click Forum Tools > Start New Thread


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16281946
> 
> 
> Go here:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=45
> 
> 
> Then click Forum Tools > Start New Thread



Thanks for the assistance! A new thread with the title "Cleveland, OH - OTA Digital TV" has been created. Everyone is welcome to participate!









http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139546


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16281782
> 
> 
> It's the same thing on E* (Dish Network). The ABC bug is just "AB".
> 
> 
> NBC used to broadcast in letterbox on their analog feed, that makes more sense than just cropping the 16x9 picture for 4X3 screens. It must be standard practice now just to crop instead of a letterbox.



I can't believe ABC hasn't fixed their bug. I think I pay more attention to it than the network does. NBC is still letterbox on TWC, since we are still getting the SD analog version of WKYC. But I'm anxiously awaiting that one going the way of WEWS, so my SDTVs will have a nice 4:3 NBC picture.


----------



## hookbill

Anybody else get the email from TW? It says that new on demand will be starting through months of April and May. I'm not able to provide copy at this time.


From wording of the email it would appear its being done with distribution of SDV. I know no big surprise but it does confirm that they will be handling this like the line up change.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16282943
> 
> 
> Anybody else get the email from TW? It says that new on demand will be starting through months of April and May. I'm not able to provide copy at this time.
> 
> 
> From wording of the email it would appear its being done with distribution of SDV. I know no big surprise but it does confirm that they will be handling this like the line up change.



An email? You must have got that since you email TWC and Steve-O so much!







TWC doesn't even _have_ my email address!


----------



## smoti17

Well, if the channels above 99 are available in real digital in legacy TWC areas, maybe that explains the confused cablecard guy I had a couple of weeks ago. Still no sign of any SDV mucking around in my corner of ex-Adelphia land.


I don't understand this "too poor to have a converter box" thing. DVB-T converter boxes can be had for about the cost of a month's entry-level cable subscription, I can't see why Cable QAM boxes in quantity would be any different. It would be worth TWC absorbing the cost of issuing these to free up all the capacity wasted by the analog channels so they can sell more channels/services. Having to watch analog TV a decade into the 21st century just sucks.


I would expect that after June 12th, TWC are going to have to convert from digital to analog on the below 100 channels - looks like they do this for e.g. Weather Channel and I presume other non-OTA channels already.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16282963
> 
> 
> An email? You must have got that since you email TWC and Steve-O so much!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TWC doesn't even _have_ my email address!



If you get your internet somewhere else then they may not. I get my internet from TW and they do have my email. That's how they contact most of their customers.


They just like keeping you in the dark.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16283431
> 
> 
> They just like keeping you in the dark.



haha!







If their internet service is anything like their cable service, I'm not the one 'in the dark'. If you know what I mean...










But seriously. I hate this company. Every time I call with a complaint, they tried to sell me their phone or internet service. Are you kidding? I'm calling because one of your services doesn't work and you think I'm going to buy another? That's like making a car that has doors that fall off and trying to sell me another one when I bring it in to be repaired!


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16282943
> 
> 
> Anybody else get the email from TW? It says that new on demand will be starting through months of April and May. I'm not able to provide copy at this time.
> 
> 
> From wording of the email it would appear its being done with distribution of SDV. I know no big surprise but it does confirm that they will be handling this like the line up change.



Yep.. I got the email in Solon....


----------



## Vchat20

Nope. No email here. I take it you got it through your provided neo.rr.com accounts? I don't think I've ever given (or been stupid enough to give them) my personal non-RR email address.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16290809
> 
> 
> Nope. No email here. I take it you got it through your provided neo.rr.com accounts? I don't think I've ever given (or been stupid enough to give them) my personal non-RR email address.




They may have my mail which is my main email but what's stupid about it? They only use it for communicating what's going on. I got my tuner adapters via email.


There may be an ad every once in a while. I never gave it to them they got it from me responding.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16290855
> 
> 
> They may have my mail which is my main email but what's stupid about it? They only use it for communicating what's going on. I got my tuner adapters via email.
> 
> 
> There may be an ad every once in a while. I never gave it to them they got it from me responding.



*shrug* I just don't foresee anything important enough from them to where I'd need to give them my personal address. If anything, I have my gmail account set to retrieve mail from the rr.com account should anything mildly important come in.


Also, on a side note I just got this interesting message:
 

Those who currently have RR Lite will be getting a free upgrade to the Standard package from April 20th to April 30th. So a massive speed bump from 768k/128k to roughly 7mbit/512k.


----------



## nickdawg

Yeah, and unless I can get it for *$19.95* a month, NOT INTERESTED!


----------



## shooter21198

well i hope to download as much stuff as possible during that period of time if it includes Erie and its suburbs


----------



## T3ddyG

Anyone in the Cleveland area using ClearQAM over the Cox cable network for their HD feed? Recently, channel 19 WOIO and channel 43 WUAB have stopped working. When I do a channel scan, they show up. However, there is no audio/video when I tune to those stations or their substations. Anyone know what the story is? I tried rescanning a few times etc, but no luck.


----------



## nosey313

Anyone experiencing audio/resolution issues? My Marantz 5003 is saying there is surround sound but nothing is coming out of my surround speakers. I changed the channel to Paladia and it was full 5.1 surround.


Also, is anyone else less that thrilled with the resolution quality? I recently set up my Mitsubishi 5500 and AVR, and am currently projecting the image on my wall (waiting to buy screen). Something just doesn't seem right with the broadcast.


----------



## nickdawg

Nope. ABC HD on TWC is fine today. It's actually the first time in a long time that WEWS isn't having some kind of 'technical difficulty' as they've had in the past.


I'll bet the resolution problems are due to the fact you're watching it on the wall, instead of a screen.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16294028
> 
> 
> Anyone experiencing audio/resolution issues? My Marantz 5003 is saying there is surround sound but nothing is coming out of my surround speakers. I changed the channel to Paladia and it was full 5.1 surround.
> 
> 
> Also, is anyone else less that thrilled with the resolution quality? I recently set up my Mitsubishi 5500 and AVR, and am currently projecting the image on my wall (waiting to buy screen). Something just doesn't seem right with the broadcast.



Yes, the picture quality was like it was halfway between HD and SD, I had to turn up the brightness so I could see the darker parts of the picture.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16294190
> 
> 
> Nope. ABC HD on TWC is fine today. It's actually the first time in a long time that WEWS isn't having some kind of 'technical difficulty' as they've had in the past.
> 
> 
> I'll bet the resolution problems are due to the fact you're watching it on the wall, instead of a screen.



Actually , no. The wall has nothing to do with the resolution. Paladia, Discovery, Indians on FOX, all look fine.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16294470
> 
> 
> Yes, the picture quality was like it was halfway between HD and SD, I had to turn up the brightness so I could see the darker parts of the picture.



Did you notice any surround audio problems?


----------



## nickdawg

WEWS is really improving their act lately. Tonight I noticed that there were several high definition channel 5 promo commercials. The "Good Morning Cleveland commercial was full screen 16:9 and a promo for Monday's news and ABC primetime had the cool HD wings with the "big blue 5" and HD. I think WEWS is broadcasting all digital for the DT channel rather than upconverting analog content when HD programming is not available. I've noticed the local commercials no longer have the VBI at the top of the screen and the picture is a bit wider than my 4:3 channel banner.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16294585
> 
> 
> Did you notice any surround audio problems?



I do not have a surround sound, only Hi-Def TV and two channel stereo.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16294585
> 
> 
> Did you notice any surround audio problems?



I think it's a broadcast problem. I'm getting no surround on ABC via OTA and WOW Cable. It is being decoded as DD 5.1, but no rear audio.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16298029
> 
> 
> I think it's a broadcast problem. I'm getting no surround on ABC via OTA and WOW Cable. It is being decoded as DD 5.1, but no rear audio.



I think it is too, and I'm wondering if it's national. I'm still not watching and my rear speakers are charging. Has anyone tried posting thins on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34 to see if anyone else is having this problem?


Just to be clear, I'm definitely not telling you to post somewhere else I'm trying to be helpful.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16298029
> 
> 
> I think it's a broadcast problem. I'm getting no surround on ABC via OTA and WOW Cable. It is being decoded as DD 5.1, but no rear audio.



All the local channels are broadcast as "DD 5.1", even when real 5.1 programming is not shown. Some channels(WOIO, WUAB) choose to 'upconvert' to fake surround sound(which sounds like a toilet). Others(WKYC, WBNX and WEWS) pass only L/R sound, even though it is flagged as 3/2.1. According to your time stamp at 1:14, the schedule has a program listed that is not even tagged as HD in my guide. If you were hearing 2 channel only at that time, it was correct.


Is the problem on ABC network programming or local WEWS programming? If it's ABC programming, something is wrong at either WEWS or ABC(probably WEWS). If it's on local programming/syndication, it's not supposed to be surround(unless they're using 'fake' upconvert surround.


EDIT: I just turned on ABC, NBA is on with no surround sound. IMO, I really don't think it's any 'worse' than before.


----------



## hookbill

Last month on a Monday for some reason WOIO had HD with no surround. It was only that day during prime time. I'm a month behind on shows again.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16298820
> 
> 
> Last month on a Monday for some reason WOIO had HD with no surround. It was only that day during prime time. I'm a month behind on shows again.



I think I remember that. It might have been in March(if you're a month behind). That happens on WOIO sometimes. But if they're broadcasting in color, that alone is a win for WOIO!


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16221602
> 
> 
> TBS and USA OTA nationally? Well, TBS started out as WTBS then went off the air completely. Why do you suppose they did that? And USA is owned by NBC so I can guarantee that it will stay an exclusive cable network. You could say the same thing about ESPN and you know that will never happen.!



WTBS (FKA WTCG)... off the air?? since when? Still broadcasting OTA on 17, 20-1 DTV last I knew.


See you think of this as a National Network now? Turners old man bought this for Ted in the '70's as a playtoy, was nothing more than what WUAB is. Ted just had the bux to force feed it to the cable industry. IMO it was much better as an Independent station out of Atlanta in the 70's & 80's.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16221602
> 
> 
> I don't believe any longer that the majority of houses still receive just OTA. I have nothing to support this statement but it seems everybody you run into has either satellite or cable..



So right there bill. I'm one of a few that haven't joined the status-quo, but this will be one household that will be without cable, even if my homeowners association forces the antennas off the roof.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16221602
> 
> 
> I'm all in favor of OTA people getting all the programming they can get with this technology, but I think "quality" is subject to debate when we look at what this channel offers. The classic movies? Absolutely. Mr. Ed?
> 
> 
> Ohhhhhhh Wilber!



You don't like Mr Ed?










I would much rather watch a pack of indys than the network with garbage infomercials... I miss the days of the late night horror show hosts (that were local, no matter what city I lived in), the romance & nostalga of television is dead, I'll just stick to DVD's.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16282313
> 
> 
> NBC is still letterbox on TWC, since we are still getting the SD analog version of WKYC. But I'm anxiously awaiting that one going the way of WEWS, so my SDTVs will have a nice 4:3 NBC picture.



Looks like I'll get my wish on June 12 or whenever WKYC or NBC quits the analog network feed. _Friday Night Lights_ is on WKYC right now(replay from Indians opening night). 16:9 on WKYC HD, 4:3 on WKYC analog. So I take it nothing is letterbox except network-broadcast programming on the NBC analog feed and the occasional commercial.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16218826
> 
> 
> There is one program missing from This TV that is seen on virtually every other cable network and OTA station: PAID PROGRAMMING!
> 
> 
> Kudos to THIS TV for providing a unique schedule that is 24/7 of ENTERTAINMENT!



Ditto!


But why are the cable networks showing infomercials?? & you're PAYING for this?? (I'm confused here?)


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16274085
> 
> 
> Nope. WUAB has it's own tower at the opposite end of the antenna farm from WOIO. While Raycom has an "LMA" for WUAB the towers for both stations were erected back when they were separate entities. Today, the only tower with multiple TV stations on it is WBNX, which has virtually every LPTV station (35, 53 & 65) farther down the stick. Once it get erected, WKYC and WVIZ will be on the same stick. Today WVIZ is sitting on WKYC's back-up tower, so technically it's not yet sharing the same tower.
> 
> 
> Tower-wise: WUAB is next door to WEWS. Both are just north of WJW.
> 
> The rest are in a row starting with WKYC on Broadview RD just above Ridgewood DR., with WOIO, WBNX and WQHS behind WKYC and along Ridgewood (btw it's the "Ridgewood Row's" tower lights that illuminate my back yard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16268700




Now this is Halarious!!!!










If you hate these people that much, why don't you send them a message & get rid of them?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301458
> 
> 
> Now this is Halarious!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you hate these people that much, why don't you send them a message & get rid of them?



They're my only option. I've been with D*, hated it. Not into trying E*-seems like it would be more of the same. And OTA, not enough channels for me. Local TV isn't what it once was. Seems almost every weekend there is at least one channel with infomercials all afternoon. At least cable keeps the infomercials on at night!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301449
> 
> 
> What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?



I don't think I've ever seen any one of those channels. Except maybe 35, but 29 usually comes in better down here in Akron.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, just got the 'free preview' RR upgrade here, a bit earlier than I expected (figured it'd come around 3AM during their usual maintenance windows):
 


Time to go hog wild for the next 10 days.


----------



## stilesec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/16263999
> 
> 
> I'd replace the HD 5030 with a Winegard YA-1713 or a Funke psp.1922, preferably a psp.1922. The gentleman that was selling psp.1922s is sold out, but you may find someone who is willing to sell one if you post in the many OTA forums that are currently on the net. The YA-1713 provides higher gain on channels 7-13 than the HD 5030. Make sure you mount the 91XG at least 4' (preferably 5') above the YA-1713. I'd get rid of the diplexer and run a separate RG6 cable from the antenna system to the television(s). You'll also want to ensure that the 7777's built in FM trap is engaged.
> 
> 
> WOIO-DT has been broadcasting in digital on channel 10 and will continue to do so after the transition. WOIO-DT has applied to the FCC to increase its power from 3.5 kW ERP to 10.3 kW ERP post transition. It remains to be seen whether it will receive permission to increase its power. I'm 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter and receive it 24/7 with a YA-1713. Keep in mind, however, that I'm on high ground and have a 55' tower. You'll also want to mount your antenna system as high as possible. WJW is moving its digital signal from channel 31 to channel 8 on June 12th. You should receive WKYC-DT when it moves to channel 17. There is too much electrical interference on channel 2 to receive WKYC-DT over 50 miles from the transmitter.



I installed the YA-1713 this weekend and removed the diplexers as well. Still no luck with woio or wkyc. I guess I just wait now and see if June 12 brings me any good news. I wonder if a letter to the FCC regarding my desire for a new more powerful WOIO would help the cause.


As of today, I am sat free and relying completely on the antenna.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301449
> 
> 
> What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?



The digital transition doesn't apply to LPTV stations, so they'll still be there as usual.


(Oops, I see this has been renamed the TWC thread...oh, well, it started here.







)


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301427
> 
> 
> Ditto!
> 
> 
> But why are the cable networks showing infomercials?? & you're PAYING for this?? (I'm confused here?)



We are paying to receive 200 ch's that we cannot get with an antenna, IOW choice.

You pay for PBS and they also run ads now.


Networks make very little money from subscriptions (cable/sat).

They make their money selling ads and infomercials are 30 minute long ads. Mo money, mo money.










Just look at the OTA locals on sat or sun mornings. It's either cartoons or discussions on colon cleanse (with pictures to boot). Enjoy your breakfast.


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301427
> 
> 
> Ditto!
> 
> 
> But why are the cable networks showing infomercials?? & you're PAYING for this?? (I'm confused here?)



It's not always the cable network... some of the half hour infomercials are inserted locally, covering the network programming...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301402
> 
> 
> WTBS (FKA WTCG)... off the air?? since when? Still broadcasting OTA on 17, 20-1 DTV last I knew.



I think you're talking about "broadcasting" on D* and that probably is true, however I'm referring to the local broadcast. From Wikipedia :


TBS is a national cable channel, available throughout the entire United States. Until October 1, 2007, the national TBS feed could not be viewed within its home market of the Atlanta Metropolitan Area, due to the over-the-air presence of WTBS, which carried a nearly identical schedule, plus the required public affairs programming and E/I programming for children.

The operations of WTBS (channel 17) and TBS Superstation were split in October 2007, with the over-the-air channel becoming WPCH-TV, a general-entertainment independent station focused on the Atlanta area only. For the first time, the national TBS feed is available to cable and satellite subscribers within channel 17's viewing area.

Due to a technicality, cable and satellite companies in Canada are only permitted to carry the over-the-air Atlanta station, and therefore most now carry WPCH ("Peachtree TV") instead of the nationwide TBS channel that other American viewers receive.[1] This dated back to prior to the change, when TBS programming was offered to Canadian viewers through WTBS, not the national cable channel. Many cable companies were apparently unaware of the changeover until after it occurred.[2] As a result, should Canadian cable companies wish to air "cable" TBS, it will be several months before the necessary approvals are received



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301402
> 
> 
> So right there bill. I'm one of a few that haven't joined the status-quo, but this will be one household that will be without cable, even if my homeowners association forces the antennas off the roof.



Howowners associations cannot by law not allow you to have a television antenna on your home. And call me bill again and I'll cyber smack you.










You don't like Mr Ed?










Yes, I like Mr. Ed but it's just that I've got other things to watch.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301402
> 
> 
> I would much rather watch a pack of indys than the network with garbage infomercials... I miss the days of the late night horror show hosts (that were local, no matter what city I lived in), the romance & nostalga of television is dead, I'll just stick to DVD's.



My response is still the same. Right now I have darn near 90 programs on one DVR, and 95% of those are in HD. On my other DVR I have 64 programs about 1/2 are in HD and on top of that I have MLB Extra Innings. So I never see any of that garbage anyway.


----------



## brh-z2

In the ex-Adelphia area. Using an SA8300.


I bought one of the 500GB Western Digital 500GB eSata drives from MicroCenter 2 weeks ago ( http://*******.com/cf37ea ). Has been flawless. I currently have 35 HD recording at 37% capacity, so I'm definitely using the new drive to store. I should be able to get ~90 hours of HD!! Very critical storage now that we have Discovery and SyFy channels.


The only glitch has been that my caller ID has stopped displaying. But if that's the only problem I can live with it.


Hook, I know you had problems with this DVR and adding a drive, but maybe they have the issues worked out.


That's www dot ******* dot com slash cf37ea.


I give up. It keeps getting blocked. "T I N Y U R L"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brh-z2* /forum/post/16303818
> 
> 
> In the ex-Adelphia area. Using an SA8300.
> 
> 
> I bought one of the 500GB Western Digital 500GB eSata drives from MicroCenter 2 weeks ago ( http://*******.com/cf37ea ). Has been flawless. I currently have 35 HD recording at 37% capacity, so I'm definitely using the new drive to store. I should be able to get ~90 hours of HD!! Very critical storage now that we have Discovery and SyFy channels.
> 
> 
> The only glitch has been that my caller ID has stopped displaying. But if that's the only problem I can live with it.
> 
> 
> Hook, I know you had problems with this DVR and adding a drive, but maybe they have the issues worked out.
> 
> 
> That's www dot ******* dot com slash cf37ea.
> 
> 
> I give up. It keeps getting blocked. "T I N Y U R L"



The "issue" I had was shared with many people. At the time the eSATA I bought was built "specifically" to work with SA 8300. The drive worked fine, it's just that the machine failed to record.


As to whether or not it's been fixed you would fine many people who never had a problem in the first place, just like you fine many who did. Even without the eSATA connected I still had recording issues, it just was worst with eSATA connected. Glad it works for you.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stilesec* /forum/post/16301634
> 
> 
> I installed the YA-1713 this weekend and removed the diplexers as well. Still no luck with woio or wkyc. I guess I just wait now and see if June 12 brings me any good news. I wonder if a letter to the FCC regarding my desire for a new more powerful WOIO would help the cause.
> 
> 
> As of today, I am sat free and relying completely on the antenna.



The YA-1713 will not receive WKYC's digital broadcast unless it is near the transmitter. It is designed to receive channels 7-13. WKYC's digital transmission will remain on channel 2 until the transition is complete and possibly a little longer if WKYC's new tower isn't completed by June 12th. WKYC will move its digital broadcast to channel 17 after WDLI abandons 17 and the new tower is completed. Your 91XG should pick up WKYC then.


Yes, it might help if you write the FCC regarding WOIO's application to increase its power to 10.3 kW.


----------



## dleising

The DTV.gov site has a nice map service with location of the DTV towers and how to get signals better if anyone has to check it out...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


----------



## hookbill

I just got done reading OMW and I find a reprint of a comment very interesting. It sounds like it comes from someone we know:

*I noticed that WEWS has a new on air look for the news. The ugly old "News Channel 5" bug is gone and it has been replaced by a bug that resembles an ABC7 O&O bug(except ours says ABC5). As far as I can tell, they're still calling it "News Channel 5" (unfortunately) when talking about the news shows.*


Fess up nickdawg, that's you isn't it?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16301449
> 
> 
> What exactly is the Fate of 53, & 65 (35 I do NOT receive at all) after 6/12?



I find it hard to believe you can get 53 & 65 but not 35. 35 is the strongest of the 3 (and the highest on the tower too IIRC). I can see the tower from my back door and 65 is very snowy (let it snow, it's only HSC).


Some, if not all the above have applied for DTV channels (one is on 44 IIRC). In any event, those who only have analog equipment will still be able to watch these 3 stations after June 12th, at least for awhile. Ultimately 65 has to move (perhaps they are the one with a ch 44 application) and 53 too. 35 can stay where they are, as that is still in the "core" of TV channels, 53 just missed the cut by one channel (52 is the highest "core" channel).


----------



## nickdawg

With a little less than one week until new TWC HD, how's the SDV status? Are you seeing SDV yet in your area? Anybody else still not have SDV? TWC better step on it!!










But seriously how cool is this? I remember a few years back one or two new channels a *year* was a huge event. And now we get to experience that feeling once a month...with at least seven channels!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16316910
> 
> 
> With a little less than one week until new TWC HD, how's the SDV status? Are you seeing SDV yet in your area? Anybody else still not have SDV? TWC better step on it!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously how cool is this? I remember a few years back one or two new channels a *year* was a huge event. And now we get to experience that feeling once a month...with at least seven channels!!



OK, Mr. Negativity here.


SDV: No signs of life. If nobody else reports it we gotta think it's just in Inundated's area out of his head end. I'm thinking maybe they had some problems to deal with and that's slowing things down. However the email I received said we would be switching to the new On Demand throughout the months of April and May and I am ASS U MNING that is running in coherence with SDV. If this is true, does TW now have enough bandwith to support 7 new channels.


Don't forget it said "On or after" again on the last HD announcement so a problem with delivering or activating SDV could push the date back, I believe it was 4/26/09.


And I got to correct you nickdawg Jassoe said it would be 5 a month, not 7. I imagine that number can expand or decrease from time to time.


I really want MLBnet, this week the Dodgers are on Thursay and I'd love to watch the game in HD.


----------



## black88mx6

Something has happened today in our area. (Strongsville/N. Royalton/Hinckley) My wife told me over the phone this morning that we are missing a lot of channels. Even normal ones that were not supposed to go SDV were lost on all sets. Will reset the cable cards when I get home to see if anything has changed. We were getting all the new HDTV channels just fine... maybe the SDV demons have come to take them away.


----------



## hookbill

I'm reading some stuff in the TiVo S3 thread about SDV that sounds kind of interesting. They are talking TiVo but I think same rules would apply no matter what STB or DVR you have. Check this out:


I think that you may not understand digital cable. In the bandwidth consumed by a single analog channel, a 38.8 Mbps MPEG Transport Stream is transmitted which can contain 2 or 3 HD channels, up to 10 standard def channels, or some arbitrary combination of high- and standard-def. *If reception of one is screwed up then all of them will be screwed up.* In my case, the affected band contains two HD channels (Fox and PBS) and a standard-def VOD preview loop--I can't tune any of them through a cable split with the TA.


If you've got interference with reception of a band allocated to switched broadcasts, it could potentially block reception of any of the SDV channels. If you tune an SDV channel, one time it might fall in the affected stream and the next time you tune it the same channel might have been placed in another stream in a band free of interference.

__________________

-- Mike Scott


I'm wondering if this isn't what's going on with some of the SDV issues we have seen.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16321160
> 
> 
> I'm reading some stuff in the TiVo S3 thread about SDV that sounds kind of interesting. They are talking TiVo but I think same rules would apply no matter what STB or DVR you have. Check this out:
> 
> 
> I think that you may not understand digital cable. In the bandwidth consumed by a single analog channel, a 38.8 Mbps MPEG Transport Stream is transmitted which can contain 2 or 3 HD channels, up to 10 standard def channels, or some arbitrary combination of high- and standard-def. *If reception of one is screwed up then all of them will be screwed up.* In my case, the affected band contains two HD channels (Fox and PBS) and a standard-def VOD preview loop--I can't tune any of them through a cable split with the TA.
> 
> 
> If you've got interference with reception of a band allocated to switched broadcasts, it could potentially block reception of any of the SDV channels. If you tune an SDV channel, one time it might fall in the affected stream and the next time you tune it the same channel might have been placed in another stream in a band free of interference.
> 
> __________________
> 
> -- Mike Scott
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if this isn't what's going on with some of the SDV issues we have seen.



Is that you Hook, or just a quote? Because it sounds like I have the same thing Mike Scott has. It seems to be a certain frequency and the channels affected by it vary when tuned.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16321338
> 
> 
> Is that you Hook, or just a quote? Because it sounds like I have the same thing Mike Scott has. It seems to be a certain frequency and the channels affected by it vary when tuned.



That's Mike Scott and it was because of what you posted I decided to bring it over here.


Yes, it does sound EXACTLY like what you have. And that's not good news for us. Apparently you are right, the technology is not as good as it sounded.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16321778
> 
> 
> That's Mike Scott and it was because of what you posted I decided to bring it over here.
> 
> 
> Yes, it does sound EXACTLY like what you have. And that's not good news for us. Apparently you are right, the technology is not as good as it sounded.



Has your area seen SDV yet?


Since other people in other areas(I assume Mike Scott is not from Ohio) are seeing the same problem, I wonder where the issue lies? Is it in individual lines, taps, nodes? Is there more of an issue with this than TWC is letting us know about?


That's what I've been saying, this technology really sucks so far. I've been busy lately, but I decided I am going to make time this week to walk into TWC and ask about this. Also, my 8300HD is totally fraked beyond belief, so that's a motivator!










Wow, Hookbill admitted I was right!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16321935
> 
> 
> Has your area seen SDV yet?
> 
> 
> Since other people in other areas(I assume Mike Scott is not from Ohio) are seeing the same problem, I wonder where the issue lies? Is it in individual lines, taps, nodes? Is there more of an issue with this than TWC is letting us know about?
> 
> 
> That's what I've been saying, this technology really sucks so far. I've been busy lately, but I decided I am going to make time this week to walk into TWC and ask about this. Also, my 8300HD is totally fraked beyond belief, so that's a motivator!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Hookbill admitted I was right!



Mike lives in the San Diego area if I recall correctly. And no, there is no sign of SDV in my area. Thankfully.


The bad channel whatever one it is affects all channels so lets say they have a problem digital channel on the same frequency. That would really screw up the HD channels assigned to SDV within that same frequency.. And that channel will stay on that frequency until it has a shut down which would be when nobody was looking at it or at least a small amount of people. Then the channel would change frequency and deliver it's problems elsewhere. But if it's a popular channel that has the problem then it would stay on that same frequency, thus continuing to affect any other channels that happen to join in.


I hope I haven't over explained but that's what I got out of it.


----------



## nickdawg

I think we need to invite Mr. Scott over here to Cleveland-TWC for more info on this. I can only hope the problem will be fixed once more channels appear on SDV. And 7 are coming next week.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16322040
> 
> 
> I think we need to invite Mr. Scott over here to Cleveland-TWC for more info on this. I can only hope the problem will be fixed once more channels appear on SDV. And 7 are coming next week.



OK, maybe I didn't explain it well. You can look here and see what you get out of it.


----------



## smoti17

Anyone seen any TWC copy-protection weirdness today ? Still no sign of SDV here, but my Tivo HD refused to record ("not authorized") a program off one of my Digital Tier channels that was previously fine this evening. I'm hoping this is a one-off glitch as it now seems to be able to record the same channel manually, but thought it might be worth a heads-up/comparing notes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16323156
> 
> 
> Anyone seen any TWC copy-protection weirdness today ? Still no sign of SDV here, but my Tivo HD refused to record ("not authorized") a program off one of my Digital Tier channels that was previously fine this evening. I'm hoping this is a one-off glitch as it now seems to be able to record the same channel manually, but thought it might be worth a heads-up/comparing notes.



What channel? How can we help without the channel?



Go back to that channel. Messages & settings/account & system info/dvr diag. Find the channel on that screen and look at cc byte. 0x01 is copy freely. 0x02 copy once. 0x03 copy never.


----------



## nickdawg

I left a little present in the Tivo thread!


----------



## Vchat20

I was gonna post something in regards to this SDV pixelization funny business and this seemingly newfound change of complaint directed towards the technology itself, but the technical side of my brain took over and figured current company would just pass over the post.


But needless to say, you guys have to realize that SDV is still in it's infancy. We are fairly lucky (or unlucky if you see the glass half empty in terms of a lack of bandwidth) that we are the first of a small handful of cableco-agnostic SDV testbeds to get access to this technology. As with any technology that is as new as this, it's gonna have it's bugs. While I'm of the firm stance that SDV itself is not the cause of all the gripe for some here (I still have 0 issues whatsoever in this area with the new SDV offerings. *shrug* Of course, I have also not had a single 'bug' with my Navigator equipment ever since we got upgraded last Spring. This is with both an SA8000 MDN box and the current 8300HDC ODN box.), but indirectly a cause with the combination of equipment that is involved to get this all rolling. And about the only way to get anything done is to keep at jumping on TWC about the problems. Use the Fry card, dig for a tier 3 tech, etc.. So far that has been made aware of in this thread, you have done ample research on your own for all the relevant details to the issue. Make it clearly known to them.




On a completely different note after reading both this thread and the 'Time Warner Cable Navigator' thread on this same forum, either I am having some weird love-hate kind of relationship with TWC or people complaining about all these problems with Navigator, these SA boxes, or signal related issues (such as nickdawg's SDV problems) are just fooling themselves into thinking their setup is perfect and pristine when it's really not.


Here's the gist: Most STB issues are signal related. Between of random box reboots and missed recordings from 'Channel Unavailable' messages and other various tuning issues are all caused by low signal to your box. ie: Low receive SNR, high transmit, out of spec downstream (reaching beyond +15 or -15db with 0db being 'good').


In my situation my signal isn't 'best' by any means, but well within spec all through the given 850mhz of bandwidth. And before I had moved the tv to the opposite side of the room where it is now I had a much shorter line to the box and the signal was even better then. Never had a problem yet, period. I have had the occasional VOD channel issue and not being able to start programming, but that's a result of all the VOD channels being in use, not signal. Same can be said for SDV programming for the identical issue.


My aunt used to have a NASTY cable run in her apartment and had all kinds of issues. All kinds of channels a pixeliating mess, HSI/phone spotty, STB reboots, missed recordings, the whole nine yards. I recently helped her move her entertainment stand and in the process replaced the obscenely long and ancient cable she was using to the box with something short and brand new and that GREATLY improved the signal and so far none of the issues have cropped up like they used to.


Please people. If you have bugs like these: Check your signal on the box from both it's current location and directly off the first split from the pole drop. If it's perfect off the first split, figure out a way to improve it past that point. If it's still bad at that split, complain to Time Warner and explain why and get them to fix it. That simple.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16323383
> 
> 
> I left a little present in the Tivo thread!



I know. I saw. I didn't say you could post there.


----------



## hookbill

Chat SDV has been around for over 2 years and in fact we have been delayed n getting it. Columbus had it before us. Its hardly in it

Infancy.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16323425
> 
> 
> I know. I saw. I didn't say you could post there.



I know. Who would have ever thought *I* would be posting in the tivo topic? It's crazy!!


----------



## RonOhio

I have had the TA and SDV for two weeks with no abnormal pixelation. It works better than I expected. So far the only problem I have had is sometimes the TA adapter reboots and the TiVo requires a reboot to re-sync. If I don't catch it on time I will miss recordings on SDV channels. It is fairly easy to spot when this happens because the TA will have a constant blinking light. Fortunately, most of the SDV channels tend to repeat the shows so the TiVo will pick it up later. Given the other choice (No TA and not getting any SDV channels) I will take the TA.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/16323854
> 
> 
> I have had the TA and SDV for two weeks with no abnormal pixelation. It works better than I expected. So far the only problem I have had is sometimes the TA adapter reboots and the TiVo requires a reboot to re-sync. If I don't catch it on time I will miss recordings on SDV channels. It is fairly easy to spot when this happens because the TA will have a constant blinking light. Fortunately, most of the SDV channels tend to repeat the shows so the TiVo will pick it up later. Given the other choice (No TA and not getting any SDV channels) I will take the TA.



Have you tried unpluging TA and rebooting that instead of TiVo?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16323915
> 
> 
> Have you tried unpluging TA and rebooting that instead of TiVo?



I've had the same issue a few times since getting my TA. One the TA goes, the TiVo seems to forget the TA exists until it (TiVo) is rebooted. Haven't tried pulling/inserting the USB cable while everything is working yet - wondering if it will do the same thing...


The TiVo *really* needs a "scan for TA" on the diagnostic screens, not just the "If you had one of these boxes, nifty stuff would happen" screen.


I've found that when rebooting the whole mess due to a goofed-up TA, you have much better luck rebooting the TA first, waiting about 30 seconds, then rebooting the TiVo.


Hopefully a software update will fix some of these issues.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16324343
> 
> 
> I've had the same issue a few times since getting my TA. One the TA goes, the TiVo seems to forget the TA exists until it (TiVo) is rebooted. Haven't tried pulling/inserting the USB cable while everything is working yet - wondering if it will do the same thing...



From what I've seen I believe it will. Give it a try next time, may cut down on the amount of time it takes to get it going.


No SDV for me yet.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently TW is upset about one city offering internet speed that blows theirs away for same amount of money and are trying to get a law passed to prevent it. Look here .


Apologies about the off topic. Nods to nickdawg for coming up with the clever slogan.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, just when I thought this SDV thing was a major pain in the ass for me, I see all these comments about Tivo and the "tuning adapters". And the tuning adapters needing to be rebooted and flashing lights and missing recordings because the box isn't working.


Remember how pissed I originally was when TWC was sued over SDV? That opinion has changed. I think TWC should be sued over this garbage. Or at the very least we should get the HDTV tier for free or less since the channels are SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16325340
> 
> 
> Apparently TW is upset about one city offering internet speed that blows theirs away for same amount of money and are trying to get a law passed to prevent it. Look here .
> 
> 
> Apologies about the off topic. Nods to nickdawg for coming up with the clever slogan.



It's not off topic anymore. This is the Cleveland TWC thread.










Thanks for the article. Another reason why I'm happy my ISP is not TWC. But it is no surprise that the TWC monopoly would try to squash any competitor, as the only qualification for being better than TWC is the company NOT being TWC. I remember reading something that TWC wants to charge based on the amount of bandwidth used. Which sounds like a back door way to limit online TV viewing or BT downloading. AFAIC, they can have their crappy service.


Crime Warner Cable: The Power to Screw You


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16325345
> 
> 
> Remember how pissed I originally was when TWC was sued over SDV? That opinion has changed. I think TWC should be sued over this garbage. Or at the very least we should get the HDTV tier for free or less since the channels are SDV.



Oh, so you are admitting you were wrong.














Now you know why everybody was so upset and it's not just TiVo people.


TW got sued because at that time they didn't have the tuner adapters. This is the first I've heard about how they actually work, and yes, I'm concerned but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.


I don't look at the TiVo Forum anymore so I have no idea what they are talking about there in regards to SDV. I'll have to peak in and take a look.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16325385
> 
> 
> It's not off topic anymore. This is the Cleveland TWC thread.



So it is. When did that happen?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16325386
> 
> 
> Oh, so you are admitting you were wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you know why everybody was so upset and it's not just TiVo people.
> 
> 
> TW got sued because at that time they didn't have the tuner adapters. This is the first I've heard about how they actually work, and yes, I'm concerned but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
> 
> 
> I don't look at the TiVo Forum anymore so I have no idea what they are talking about there in regards to SDV. I'll have to peak in and take a look.



"Wrong" is an understatement about this. It was hyped as something that was supposed to be so great and "you can't even tell which channels are SDV". But this faulty, flawed technology is terrible. And even worse for the Tivo people with the extra box.


Also, going by earlier comments, SDV is NOT new. It has been around at least 2 years in some TWC markets plus testing before that.


On another note, I think it is about time for CWC to seriously screw analog-only customers. Give THEM the "new SDV technology". Force THEM to use "tuning adapters" with blinking lights, unavailable messages and breaking up picture. Reclaim that bandwidth wasted on analog and use it for more HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16325185
> 
> 
> No SDV for me yet.



I'm really getting worried. The weekend is approaching and TWC is supposed to be assing those new channels next Wednesday. I get the feeling your SDV experience won't be a good one, since they'll be starting SDV broadcasting a few minutes before the new channels. If there's problems here after all the time they spent on this, I can't imagine how much worse things could be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16325739
> 
> 
> I'm really getting worried. The weekend is approaching and TWC is supposed to be assing those new channels next Wednesday. I get the feeling your SDV experience won't be a good one, since they'll be starting SDV broadcasting a few minutes before the new channels. If there's problems here after all the time they spent on this, I can't imagine how much worse things could be.



From the TWC notice:
*On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family,


On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier: ESPN News and MLB*


Today is the 23. That's 6 full days, and even then remember it's on or after. No guarantee on the date.


One more thing we really don't have any idea how much bandwith TW has available really. They could very well add those channels without SDV for all we know.


----------



## bassguitarman

As an aside. Last night my 8300HD would not receive local HD channels for channel 5 and 19. Just a blank screen , no message or anything.

TWC former ADelphia


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16326365
> 
> 
> As an aside. Last night my 8300HD would not receive local HD channels for channel 5 and 19. Just a blank screen , no message or anything.
> 
> TWC former ADelphia



That is not an aside, that is a problem in my book.


Just to let you know I successfully recorded 3 shows last night, 2 on WEWS and 1 on WOIO, so maybe you had some problems at your head end.


SDV should not interfere with local broadcast.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16327133
> 
> 
> That is not an aside, that is a problem in my book.
> 
> 
> Just to let you know I successfully recorded 3 shows last night, 2 on WEWS and 1 on WOIO, so maybe you had some problems at your head end.
> 
> 
> SDV should not interfere with local broadcast.



Maybe it is the box? Of course I say this since my SA8300 screwed the pooch and won't even go past the third block on the boot screen. Before that, it missed recordings frequently, more often in the past month than it used to. And it was perfect under Passport and Navigator in the early days.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16327238
> 
> 
> Maybe it is the box? Of course I say this since my SA8300 screwed the pooch and won't even go past the third block on the boot screen. Before that, it missed recordings frequently, more often in the past month than it used to. And it was perfect under Passport and Navigator in the early days.



Arn't you planning on returning that thing for another? Isn't that the point?


I can't believe you're talking so negatively about the SA 8300. Indeed you have come full circle now on both SDV and the SA 8300.


And then you reveal that it was missing recordings! Hmmm. That sounds familiar.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16323156
> 
> 
> Anyone seen any TWC copy-protection weirdness today ? Still no sign of SDV here, but my Tivo HD refused to record ("not authorized") a program off one of my Digital Tier channels that was previously fine this evening. I'm hoping this is a one-off glitch as it now seems to be able to record the same channel manually, but thought it might be worth a heads-up/comparing notes.



Mercifully this (on 109/BBC) seems to have been a one-off glitch, have not been able to reproduce the problem. Phew.


----------



## nickdawg

Channel 5 has a new bug. It must have started some time this week, as it still said "news channel 5" when I watched on Saturday after the game. I like the new bug, it looks very ABC O&O like. And I have a thing for network/O&O branding. Very nice, 5. Good Job!!


Also over at 5, Ted Henry is retiring. Hard to believe, he just announced it out of nowhere yesterday. May 20 is supposed to be his last day.


My thoughts, I hope he takes Duhhhhh-Neeeeta with him. I'd really love to see Kim Gill from the morning show move to the evenings. She's a fantastic anchor not being used to her potential in the morning. And for a guy, I'd like to see WEWS woo Eric Mansfield over to 5. WKYC has really jerked him around lately, dumping the Akron Canton news and now the 7pm show is ruined with Carole Chandler gone. Eric Mansfield and Kimberly Gill would make a great team at 5 and restore professional, serious news. Or, and this is really out there, but hire Tim White. WKYC tossed him aside like yesterday's trash, bring him to WEWS. That, along with a re-branding(I'm thinking "Eyewetness News") would shoot WEWS far out of the basement they're currently in.


Gotta say, this channel keeps impressing me. Just a few back, I was constantly dogging on WEWS with all their technical problems. But they have really 360'ed in the last few weeks. The black line is gone, the HD channel has been glitch free and they have some cool, new graphics and HD commercials. If you look at the ABC/evening news commercials, the sidebars actually say: "WEWS HD" on the right and "TONIGHT" on the left.


Oh yeah, and Abby Hamm is leaving WKYC morning. Can the week get any better?


----------



## Vchat20

Well, I asked a CSR at the local payment office today during a small jaunt for other reasons if they had the new Samsung boxes in yet. Apparently not. Said they were still being given the SA boxes to hand to customers. (This is something that I -will- trust them on since they'd actually get them in their hands.)


Not that I'm surprised, but crossing my fingers for the 320GB version to hit the area here. HD material just hogs the 140GB or so of 'usable' space on the 8300HDC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16337781
> 
> 
> Well, I asked a CSR at the local payment office today during a small jaunt for other reasons if they had the new Samsung boxes in yet. Apparently not. Said they were still being given the SA boxes to hand to customers. (This is something that I -will- trust them on since they'd actually get them in their hands.)
> 
> 
> Not that I'm surprised, but crossing my fingers for the 320GB version to hit the area here. HD material just hogs the 140GB or so of 'usable' space on the 8300HDC.



We still don't have SDV. I think it will be a while before you see that box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16337781
> 
> 
> Well, I asked a CSR at the local payment office today during a small jaunt for other reasons if they had the new Samsung boxes in yet. Apparently not. Said they were still being given the SA boxes to hand to customers. (This is something that I -will- trust them on since they'd actually get them in their hands.)
> 
> 
> Not that I'm surprised, but crossing my fingers for the 320GB version to hit the area here. HD material just hogs the 140GB or so of 'usable' space on the 8300HDC.



Calm down, the Sammy is not as great as we thought it would be. The biggest problem with the 3090 is that all of the graphics are S T R E T C H E D, regardless of how aspect ratio/output formats are set. It's supposed to be capable of 16:9 graphics, but since ODN is not capable of 16:9 graphics, they are stretched for whatever reason. Also, it is really bad with missing recordings. Like the way the SA boxes were before ODN3. The stretched graphics alone are enough for me to NEVER want a Samsung box. It would drive me insane. And the reliability issues make it even more of a no go.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16337817
> 
> 
> We still don't have SDV. I think it will be a while before you see that box.



And we're supposed to get HD channels next week. Wow, thanks TWC! I think I need to dig up that image again!


----------



## hookbill

I don't understand how the sound can be so bad on a digital channel. Watching Dodger game it sounds like crap.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16338006
> 
> 
> I don't understand how the sound can be so bad on a digital channel. Watching Dodger game it sounds like crap.



Which channel? MLB TV?


PQ/SQ can be horrible on digital channels, depending on how the signal is being output from the source or how the channel is encoded. If the channel is packed on with limited bandwidth or on a overcroded QAM, it can suffer.


My favorite example are the three crap channels that are WVIZ multicast. Look at 363, 364 and 365. It's apparent, especially on 365 that the bandwidth is stretched thin. PQ is terrible.


It's like an MP3, digital can be encoded at a low bitrate, and the sound quality is ass.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16338088
> 
> 
> Which channel? MLB TV?
> 
> 
> PQ/SQ can be horrible on digital channels, depending on how the signal is being output from the source or how the channel is encoded. If the channel is packed on with limited bandwidth or on a overcroded QAM, it can suffer.
> 
> 
> My favorite example are the three crap channels that are WVIZ multicast. Look at 363, 364 and 365. It's apparent, especially on 365 that the bandwidth is stretched thin. PQ is terrible.
> 
> 
> It's like an MP3, digital can be encoded at a low bitrate, and the sound quality is ass.



It was on MLB EXTRA Innings. Dolby Pro Logic II couldn't translate anything into the back speakers sounded like all sound was coming out of front speaker only. I can only describe it as a "tin can" sound.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16337822
> 
> 
> Calm down, the Sammy is not as great as we thought it would be. The biggest problem with the 3090 is that all of the graphics are S T R E T C H E D, regardless of how aspect ratio/output formats are set. It's supposed to be capable of 16:9 graphics, but since ODN is not capable of 16:9 graphics, they are stretched for whatever reason. Also, it is really bad with missing recordings. Like the way the SA boxes were before ODN3. The stretched graphics alone are enough for me to NEVER want a Samsung box. It would drive me insane. And the reliability issues make it even more of a no go.



Hey. You guys are the ones having all the problems. My box works 100% perfectly.







The stretched guide is only a minor issue I can deal with in light of the positive aspects of the box.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16338088
> 
> 
> Which channel? MLB TV?
> 
> 
> PQ/SQ can be horrible on digital channels, depending on how the signal is being output from the source or how the channel is encoded. If the channel is packed on with limited bandwidth or on a overcroded QAM, it can suffer.
> 
> 
> My favorite example are the three crap channels that are WVIZ multicast. Look at 363, 364 and 365. It's apparent, especially on 365 that the bandwidth is stretched thin. PQ is terrible.
> 
> 
> It's like an MP3, digital can be encoded at a low bitrate, and the sound quality is ass.



I doubt it is that, tbh. While it is possible, it is rare especially for the audio to sound like absolute crap unless they are pulling more **** on you guys up there in ex-adelphia land (even on the lowliest of digital channels, my experience has been the incoming audio for 2ch audio at the lowest comes in at 160kbps 48khz, 20khz bandpassed per channel, AC3. Which is -roughly- on par to mp3 at the same rate give or take. That will only sound like crap if the source is crap to begin with.)


More than likely it is the source. Probably wherever they are getting their feed from at the game.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16340534
> 
> 
> I doubt it is that, tbh. While it is possible, it is rare especially for the audio to sound like absolute crap unless they are pulling more **** on you guys up there in ex-adelphia land (even on the lowliest of digital channels, my experience has been the incoming audio for 2ch audio at the lowest comes in at 160kbps 48khz, 20khz bandpassed per channel, AC3. Which is -roughly- on par to mp3 at the same rate give or take. That will only sound like crap if the source is crap to begin with.)
> 
> 
> More than likely it is the source. Probably wherever they are getting their feed from at the game.



Usually I can replicate ballpark sound by using Dolby Pro Logic II, but not last night.


It could be the hook up with Fox sports. I don't know why but I got the impression the problem was the source. I could be wrong. It just didn't sound good.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16340562
> 
> 
> Usually I can replicate ballpark sound by using Dolby Pro Logic II, but not last night.
> 
> 
> It could be the hook up with Fox sports. I don't know why but I got the impression the problem was the source. I could be wrong. It just didn't sound good.



Several Cavs games on ABC Sunday afternoons had lousy audio too. It was bad both on E* and Digital OTA, while the analog OTA had the superior sound. The digital feed had phasing issues (the "comb filter" effect). The last game was better. Every time I hear this kind of problem I think "isn't anybody monitoring the signal???"


----------



## Vchat20

Ok. Dunno if it's isolated around here or not. Wondering if any of you guys are seeing this?


Can't exactly explain it. Like digital noise of some sort, but on the analog channels here on sets that are hooked up straight to cable. The same channels on the box in digital are clean. It's not a tv issue as it is the same on 3 different analog sets in the house.

  


It's not on every channel, only a small handful. Not any pattern that I can surmise. Two I know of are Discovery and Animal Planet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16341569
> 
> 
> Ok. Dunno if it's isolated around here or not. Wondering if any of you guys are seeing this?
> 
> 
> Can't exactly explain it. Like digital noise of some sort, but on the analog channels here on sets that are hooked up straight to cable. The same channels on the box in digital are clean. It's not a tv issue as it is the same on 3 different analog sets in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not on every channel, only a small handful. Not any pattern that I can surmise. Two I know of are Discovery and Animal Planet.



You look here mister. This is quality TW analog picture. If you don't like it then you just buy additional digital boxes.


Signed


Steve Fry

















lol I haven't seen it quite that bad but I've seen something similar.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16341629
> 
> 
> You look here mister. This is quality TW analog picture. If you don't like it then you just buy additional digital boxes.
> 
> 
> Signed
> 
> 
> Steve Fry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol I haven't seen it quite that bad but I've seen something similar.



He's not kidding. That is the best option. I only have one TV connected without a box, and it never gets used. Probably for that reason. I can't stand analog picture, even on an analog set.


----------



## nickdawg

Any signs of SDV life yet? We're a few days away.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16341908
> 
> 
> Any signs of SDV life yet? We're a few days away.



Just looked at SDV diagnostic menu tuned t MLB Extra Innings. There is no sign of it, nothing but zeros.


----------



## Skraut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16341908
> 
> 
> Any signs of SDV life yet? We're a few days away.



Not quite sure. I haven't been able to get any of the Sports tier stations on my HD Tivo's cable cards. I do not have an adapter to let me use SDV for my Tivo, not sure what I need to do to get one. I don't know if that's the issue or if it's something completely unrelated.


Several calls to tech support haven't resolved the issues. "We'll talk to head end, give us a call tomorrow if you're still having an issue" is the best I can get.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skraut* /forum/post/16342015
> 
> 
> Not quite sure. I haven't been able to get any of the Sports tier stations on my HD Tivo's cable cards. I do not have an adapter to let me use SDV for my Tivo, not sure what I need to do to get one. I don't know if that's the issue or if it's something completely unrelated.
> 
> 
> Several calls to tech support haven't resolved the issues. "We'll talk to head end, give us a call tomorrow if you're still having an issue" is the best I can get.



Where do you live?


Tuner adapter hotline 3305724116 Jeanie handles.


What morons they have at customer service.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16341569
> 
> 
> Ok. Dunno if it's isolated around here or not. Wondering if any of you guys are seeing this?
> 
> 
> Can't exactly explain it. Like digital noise of some sort, but on the analog channels here on sets that are hooked up straight to cable. The same channels on the box in digital are clean. It's not a tv issue as it is the same on 3 different analog sets in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not on every channel, only a small handful. Not any pattern that I can surmise. Two I know of are Discovery and Animal Planet.



I think the tuners are being overdriven from a signal that might be too hot. Place one of the converter boxes on that outlet and use it's built-in signal strength meter to determine the level on the troublesome channels. I'm betting they're hitting over +10dbmv.


Too much signal is a good problem to have - it's easy to insert a bit of attenuation to burn off the excess.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skraut* /forum/post/16342015
> 
> 
> Not quite sure. I haven't been able to get any of the Sports tier stations on my HD Tivo's cable cards. I do not have an adapter to let me use SDV for my Tivo, not sure what I need to do to get one. I don't know if that's the issue or if it's something completely unrelated.
> 
> 
> Several calls to tech support haven't resolved the issues. "We'll talk to head end, give us a call tomorrow if you're still having an issue" is the best I can get.



I think you have SDV. All of the channels in the MLB, NHL Sports Tier are SDV.


----------



## Skraut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16342064
> 
> 
> Where do you live?
> 
> 
> Tuner adapter hotline 3305724116 Jeanie handles.
> 
> 
> What morons they have at customer service.



I'm in Brunswick. One of the technicians said they were having a problem with the NHL Network that several customers were reporting, but didn't know what the issue was.


All of the channels work just fine on my other TV which just has a normal TWC set top box.


This started happening I think this past Monday.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16342120
> 
> 
> I think the tuners are being overdriven from a signal that might be too hot. Place one of the converter boxes on that outlet and use it's built-in signal strength meter to determine the level on the troublesome channels. I'm betting they're hitting over +10dbmv.
> 
> 
> Too much signal is a good problem to have - it's easy to insert a bit of attenuation to burn off the excess.



I don't think it's a signal issue. Looks more 'digital' to me like the particular decoders they are using to convert the channels upstream to analog NTSC are buggering up somewhere.


The box is further up the chain of splits by about...3? splitters and is off the first splitter inside the house and the signal is just inside the green are and hardly being overdriven. I think on a lot of channels the downstream signal varies with preference to the low side anywhere from 0db to -10-ish db.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skraut* /forum/post/16342453
> 
> 
> I'm in Brunswick. One of the technicians said they were having a problem with the NHL Network that several customers were reporting, but didn't know what the issue was.
> 
> 
> All of the channels work just fine on my other TV which just has a normal TWC set top box.
> 
> 
> This started happening I think this past Monday.



That clearly shows you have SDV.


Call the hotline number. Nickdawg do you still have the email for him?


It really irks me that whoever you dealt with couldn't figure this out.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skraut* /forum/post/16342453
> 
> 
> I'm in Brunswick. One of the technicians said they were having a problem with the NHL Network that several customers were reporting, but didn't know what the issue was.
> 
> 
> All of the channels work just fine on my other TV which just has a normal TWC set top box.
> 
> 
> This started happening I think this past Monday.



Sounds like SDV. The TWC box works because it has the necessary two way communication built into the box. Tivo needs the tuning adapter to make the channels work. NHL and MLB are on SDV. Sicne Hook can still watch the MLB channels I take it his area is not on SDV. But he has the tuning adapter too.


----------



## Vchat20

Just had a real ingenious thought hookbill to test if your area has SDV or not. At least this will work for tivo users: Take the tuning adapter completely out of the equation and see if the known SDV channels still come in.







Should only need to pull the usb cable for the length of the test and plug it back in so no need do any major rewiring.


----------



## nickdawg

C'mon Hook. Give it a try.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16342514
> 
> 
> Just had a real ingenious thought hookbill to test if your area has SDV or not. At least this will work for tivo users: Take the tuning adapter completely out of the equation and see if the known SDV channels still come in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should only need to pull the usb cable for the length of the test and plug it back in so no need do any major rewiring.



I could do that but I don't need to. Do you remember Inundateds post? He confirmed that the SDV diagnostics on his SA 8000 had lit up. I have looked at my SA4250 and it has nothing but zeros just like my 2 Tivos. I'm positive it is not active in my area.

They also appear to be doing the change in VOD at the same time and the VOD on the 4250 has not changed. The email I received said that would be going on through the month of May.


I'm sure it will be coming soon. I will be able to see the difference on the diagnostic screen.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16342493
> 
> 
> I don't think it's a signal issue. Looks more 'digital' to me like the particular decoders they are using to convert the channels upstream to analog NTSC are buggering up somewhere.
> 
> 
> The box is further up the chain of splits by about...3? splitters and is off the first splitter inside the house and the signal is just inside the green are and hardly being overdriven. I think on a lot of channels the downstream signal varies with preference to the low side anywhere from 0db to -10-ish db.



So those lines in the picture are always in the same spot?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16342843
> 
> 
> So those lines in the picture are always in the same spot?



That part is predictable. Seems to be in mostly contiguous spots of color (for the most part anyway).


In any case, it seems to have cleared up for now. All clean on the affected channels.


----------



## hookbill

This morning while on MLB Extra Innings I did screen shots of the diagnostic screen from the tuner adapter. In the first one is the general diagnostic screen I named SDV 1 Notice it says Authorized: NO and all the zeros forllowing.


The next one is SDV MINI CAROUSEL. Status says Init but there are no numbers to support anything going on.


Finally I have SDV Session Info Which shows an Idle status. This does have a Frequency next to it but IIRC it is not in the SDV ranges.


And to keep everyone happy I by passed the Tuner Adapter this morning, and while there was a hesitation, the channel I was using did come back up.


Therefore I don't believe we have SDV in this area. Hope that convinces you guys.


----------



## hookbill

TiVo dropped a message saying this channel had been added to the line up. I see it listed on TW's guide but I can't get it and it's not even on the 4250 guide. I'll bet this is another thing like when we were shown that we could get WNEO HD in the internet guide but they really were not delivering it to our area.


Anybody else get this channel? And if you do what area are you in .ie. Ex Adelphia Cleveland, Ex Adelphia Erie, TW Native.


----------



## shooter21198

i tried getting 358 and all i got was ????


also "3" days til new HD Channels


----------



## hookbill

FWIW I am certain that the sound issue I spoke about is the source. Funny, sound improves when they go to commercial. This is on Fox Sports Rocky Mountain.


----------



## nosey313

Two questions for you all. First, does anyone know who to contact at WEWS with technical questions? Second, does WEWS broadcast any subchannels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16346128
> 
> 
> Two questions for you all. First, does anyone know who to contact at WEWS with technical questions? Second, does WEWS broadcast any subchannels?



Question 1, lots of luck.







Question 2, no they don't.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16346128
> 
> 
> Two questions for you all. First, does anyone know who to contact at WEWS with technical questions? Second, does WEWS broadcast any subchannels?



Why? Everything has been OK with WEWS for the last few weeks. It's been surprising.


No subchannels. Just the main 720p ABC/WEWS feed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16346128
> 
> 
> Two questions for you all. First, does anyone know who to contact at WEWS with technical questions? Second, does WEWS broadcast any subchannels?



The first post in this thread lists all Cleveland area OTA local ch's and sub-ch's:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139546


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16346128
> 
> 
> Two questions for you all. First, does anyone know who to contact at WEWS with technical questions? Second, does WEWS broadcast any subchannels?



Let me guess, you want to know where the Cavs vs. Pistons game can be found?


The first 2 quarters were on ESPN2, even though the EPG had poker listed. I finally found the location of the game by observing the crawl under the double overtime Celtics vs. Bulls game.


We'll need to keep this in mind the next time there is an early game that goes into overtime.


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg is asking me in the TiVo thread to find out if I have SDV. Since that is really a local issue I'll respond on this thread.


I just checked upstairs and there is no sign of any SDV. Numbers look exactly like what I had posted.


I really suspect that they ran into a lot of problems when they launched it in Inundated land and hence the delay?


There is probably one person who is a member of this forum who knows what's going on but he gets real quiet sometime, don't you Cathode Kid?










I know your reading, if you've got anything even a clue hows about it?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16358499
> 
> 
> nickdawg is asking me in the TiVo thread to find out if I have SDV. Since that is really a local issue I'll respond on this thread.
> 
> 
> I just checked upstairs and there is no sign of any SDV. Numbers look exactly like what I had posted.
> 
> 
> I really suspect that they ran into a lot of problems when they launched it in Inundated land and hence the delay?
> 
> 
> There is probably one person who is a member of this forum who knows what's going on but he gets real quiet sometime, don't you Cathode Kid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know your reading, if you've got anything even a clue hows about it?



Well, TWC tech #3 has came and went. This time he didn't have to check anything inside, he checked the outside line at the drop and said the signal is low. The "bucket truck" is supposed to come out tomorrow. I'm taking that to mean TOMORROW. If it doesn't, and my new channels along with the existing ones don't work, I'm calling TWC TOMORROW!


----------



## hookbill

No SDV but Tivo has already added the new HD channels on to the guide.


I checked my 4250 and it has no guide data and channels are not available.


This is true on my TiVo as well. Only the guide data is available. No actual channels are being broadcast yet. This is the first time I have ever seen guide data arrive on the TiVo before channels were activated.


I would guess the added HD channels will be available tomorrow as scheduled.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16358499
> 
> 
> nickdawg is asking me in the TiVo thread to find out if I have SDV. Since that is really a local issue I'll respond on this thread.
> 
> 
> I just checked upstairs and there is no sign of any SDV. Numbers look exactly like what I had posted.
> 
> 
> I really suspect that they ran into a lot of problems when they launched it in Inundated land and hence the delay?
> 
> 
> There is probably one person who is a member of this forum who knows what's going on but he gets real quiet sometime, don't you Cathode Kid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know your reading, if you've got anything even a clue hows about it?



Who, me?










I know they're extraordinarily busy right now, working on this launch as well as some other migrations. Can't say much more at the moment.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16361396
> 
> 
> No SDV but Tivo has already added the new HD channels on to the guide.
> 
> 
> I checked my 4250 and it has no guide data and channels are not available.
> 
> 
> This is true on my TiVo as well. Only the guide data is available. No actual channels are being broadcast yet. This is the first time I have ever seen guide data arrive on the TiVo before channels were activated.
> 
> 
> I would guess the added HD channels will be available tomorrow as scheduled.



What's wrong with the 4250? It has the channels but no guide data, or is the whole thing missing guide data?










Tivo probably has the channels ready to go tonight because they know Hookbill will be calling tomorrow. They can't take the wrath of Hookbill!










I'm oing to check right now...


----------



## hookbill

4250 = Nothing available. No guide data and channels are not available yet.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16361675
> 
> 
> 4250 = Nothing available. No guide data and channels are not available yet.



I'm thinking that box might be getting upgraded tonight. Sometimes they act "funny" right before changes are made. Watching TV at night, I've noticed missing channels or things running slow. It's especially that 2AM - morning time period when TWC fixes things.


No changes here yet. Everything appears to be the same. No added channels.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, I just checked here and even rebooted the box once. No new channels yet. Gonna wait and see if they are up later this afternoon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16362775
> 
> 
> Well, I just checked here and even rebooted the box once. No new channels yet. Gonna wait and see if they are up later this afternoon.



I just gave the 8:30 am check and both TiVos now have guide data but no actual programming. The 4250 is still without programming or guide data.


I think they rolled in around 10-10:30 am the last time.


----------



## hookbill

Checked about 20 minutes ago. Still not signs of the HD channels, other then the fact that I have guide data on the TiVo's.


I'm beginning to think this will be an "after" not an "on" April 29. If that's the case I'll bet it's lack of bandwith and a situation with SDV.


I know the day is young, 24 hours in a day. We will see.


----------



## smoti17

My Tivo has likewise added the following channels to its lineup: 432, 438, 450, 452, 460, 466, 486 (& 358 last week). If I select any of them, I get an new error message "The tuning adapter is not able to provide these channels". And no sign of SDV activity on the tuning adapter. So it indeed looks like they hit the no SDV capacity yet bottleneck.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16364860
> 
> 
> My Tivo has likewise added the following channels to its lineup: 432, 438, 450, 452, 460, 466, 486 (& 358 last week). If I select any of them, I get an new error message "The tuning adapter is not able to provide these channels". And no sign of SDV activity on the tuning adapter. So it indeed looks like they hit the no SDV capacity yet bottleneck.



It's not just that, they are not showing up on their own equipment either. Kudos to Tribune Media for being on top of these added channels. I've seen other areas that have not been so lucky.


Oh and that's the same message I get on my TiVo's as well.


----------



## hookbill

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it ain't gonna happen today. Maybe tomorrow.


I just wonder if SDV is the reason. Did it just work so poorly with SARA that they are holding the whole thing up, or is there another reason?


----------



## Inundated

Geez, you folks are impatient about new channels!!










I haven't been near my HD set or my TiVo, but I'll go up there after I post this. I'll also take some SDV screen screenshots. Did someone here in Brunswick say they had SDV? That's ex-Adelphia, on the same former Cuyahoga Valley system we are on (same lineup, WVIZ on 2, etc.).


But I can't confirm or don't remember if Brunswick would be fed out of Bath. Probably too far.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16368532
> 
> 
> But I can't confirm or don't remember if Brunswick would be fed out of Bath. Probably too far.



Correct. It's from further north.


----------



## hookbill

I think we've been very patient for HD considering the difference between sattelite and cable.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16368532
> 
> 
> Geez, you folks are impatient about new channels!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been near my HD set or my TiVo, but I'll go up there after I post this. I'll also take some SDV screen screenshots. Did someone here in Brunswick say they had SDV? That's ex-Adelphia, on the same former Cuyahoga Valley system we are on (same lineup, WVIZ on 2, etc.).
> 
> 
> But I can't confirm or don't remember if Brunswick would be fed out of Bath. Probably too far.



Are those SDV channels still acting up on your box?


I was waiting for the TWC truck roll today. They never came.


Time for another call, another wait.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16368714
> 
> 
> I think we've been very patient for HD considering the difference between sattelite and cable.



Exactly. Why I'm still with this f#(&!*% company is beyond me. It's like TWC burned down my house, crashed my car and "did" my sister!


----------



## Vchat20

I have to agree. I think the only reason we haven't switched to DirecTV or Dish is because both have some sort of ugly contracts, credit checks, and expensive lease fees/deposits. That's just not in the budget right now. As high as TW's rates are (running like $130/mo here for just the basic cable/digital package w/DVR and no premiums, standard telephone service, and RR Lite), it's still less mess and hassle than satellite.


But make no mistake, the second budget allows for it, I'm making the switch ASAP. Let's hope they have the updated Tivo receivers by then or at least the PC tuners.










At least though they are starting to get on the ball with adding more HD programming.


----------



## hookbill

I remember the guy from Brunswick. He had the same problems Inundated had.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16368750
> 
> 
> I have to agree. I think the only reason we haven't switched to DirecTV or Dish is because both have some sort of ugly contracts, credit checks, and expensive lease fees/deposits. That's just not in the budget right now. As high as TW's rates are (running like $130/mo here for just the basic cable/digital package w/DVR and no premiums, standard telephone service, and RR Lite), it's still less mess and hassle than satellite.
> 
> 
> But make no mistake, the second budget allows for it, I'm making the switch ASAP. Let's hope they have the updated Tivo receivers by then or at least the PC tuners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least though they are starting to get on the ball with adding more HD programming.



Nah, I'd never go back to D*. I hated it so much I considered paying the "penalty" before one year.l I hear they've changed it to two years now, especially for HDTV. Plus they make you pay like $200 for the HD DVR. That's a big fat NO for me: owning equipment. If their "Directv" brand boxes are like TWC, last thing I want to do is own it!


If I ever went anywhere, I'd go to AT&T Advanced TV. I looked at it online, one of the best packages would be about $120 for TV, internet and phone. Right now I pay a hair over $100 (~$103 to be exact) for JUST TV. 2 HD boxes, HBO, Showtime, HDTV Tier, Digital Cable, HD DVR. I don't get any of the "extra" channels(like Choice Tier, Sports Tier, Movie Tier). No internet or phone(Not that I would ever get that from TWC anyway). AT&T has about 100 national HD channels already, plus some of the higher up packages include channels I've never heard of and cable does not carry. It's really tempting, but I don't see a huge, "ugly" box on my street yet.










----------


I'd like to make an addition. If all you have is (I assume) one HD box - DVR, no premiums and you still pay $130, you're getting seriously ripped. My AT&T internet is about $20. Phone's a bit more. But TWC's CABLE side is a joke if it costs as much as I pay just to have only 2 boxes, 2 premiums and only one "extra" tier. Movie, Sport, Choice are each $5. That would be $15 extra if I wanted EVERY channel between 101 and 400.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16368811
> 
> 
> Nah, I'd never go back to D*. I hated it so much I considered paying the "penalty" before one year.l I hear they've changed it to two years now, especially for HDTV. Plus they make you pay like $200 for the HD DVR. That's a big fat NO for me: owning equipment. If their "Directv" brand boxes are like TWC, last thing I want to do is own it!
> 
> 
> If I ever went anywhere, I'd go to AT&T Advanced TV. I looked at it online, one of the best packages would be about $120 for TV, internet and phone. Right now I pay a hair over $100 (~$103 to be exact) for JUST TV. 2 HD boxes, HBO, Showtime, HDTV Tier, Digital Cable, HD DVR. I don't get any of the "extra" channels(like Choice Tier, Sports Tier, Movie Tier). No internet or phone(Not that I would ever get that from TWC anyway). AT&T has about 100 national HD channels already, plus some of the higher up packages include channels I've never heard of and cable does not carry. It's really tempting, but I don't see a huge, "ugly" box on my street yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> I'd like to make an addition. If all you have is (I assume) one HD box - DVR, no premiums and you still pay $130, you're getting seriously ripped. My AT&T internet is about $20. Phone's a bit more. But TWC's CABLE side is a joke if it costs as much as I pay just to have only 2 boxes, 2 premiums and only one "extra" tier. Movie, Sport, Choice are each $5. That would be $15 extra if I wanted EVERY channel between 101 and 400.



A couple things. First they no longer sell their DVR you lease it. Its around. 3 bills IIRC. That's the deposit.


Cable internet is faster then phone company. Also you can get Voip for 20 bucks not from TW from Voyage. Though even TW is cheaper then phone company.


I'm not arguing your thinking, I'm just pointing out a couple of things.


----------



## Vchat20

Yes, it's only one HD/DVR box here. I know the $130/mo is a massive rape in the pocketbook, but there's no alternatives around here. For phone we have embarq in this area and not only are they worse rate-wise than TW (phone after all the fees runs about the same as TW's, but that's only unlimited local. You have to add on long distance to that. The standard DSL package last time we had it was around the same price as TW's standard tier and only offered 3M/384K and that's the tier cap. Signal/sync rates were great here.), but they seemed to have a fascination with cutting off your DSL service on a random whim, wait for you to call to see WTF is up, then slap you with the ETF and reconnect fees. I will no longer touch them with a 10 mile long pole UNLESS they start offering month to month service. And as far as I can tell, there are very few dsl resellers and none of them decent that will run on embarq.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16368999
> 
> 
> A couple things. First they no longer sell their DVR you lease it. Its around. 3 bills IIRC. That's the deposit.
> 
> 
> Cable internet is faster then phone company. Also you can get Voip for 20 bucks not from TW from Voyage. Though even TW is cheaper then phone company.
> 
> 
> I'm not arguing your thinking, I'm just pointing out a couple of things.



Vonage is another company I won't touch even if my life depended on it. That and that magicjack garbage. Just my own pet peeves with those two in particular. VoIP is extremely reliable when set up right and I'd have no doubt I'd be able to do so with ease. But it has so many failure points it's not funny. I do a lot of modifications to my network almost on a daily basis that would constantly be taking out the VoIP service at every turn. That is why I like TW's phone service. It just works.(tm) It bypasses the internet completely, cheaper than the local ILEC, and the quality is even better (not often, but Embarq's copper around here would go cranky and crackily about once a year for a few days off and on and often screwed with DSL service as well. TW's service is fully digital almost the full call distance depending on who you call. If the other party has digital based phone service or a cell phone, it should be crystal clear the whole way.)


Though I will completely agree with you that TW's internet offerings are light years ahead of what you get from the phone companies at least around here. Though the way they are heading, this may change....


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16368999
> 
> 
> A couple things. First they no longer sell their DVR you lease it. Its around. 3 bills IIRC. That's the deposit.
> 
> 
> Cable internet is faster then phone company. Also you can get Voip for 20 bucks not from TW from Voyage. *Though even TW is cheaper then phone company.*
> 
> 
> I'm not arguing your thinking, I'm just pointing out a couple of things.



On internet or phone?







My "thing" is if they try to sell me internet, I'll challenge them to beat $20. They can't.


And phone. I'm aware of prices, seen the ads. I've been against VOIP since day one when I first learned of it. The one thing that's always worked for me is the phone. It's worked for over 150 years, why mess it up now?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16369026
> 
> 
> Yes, it's only one HD/DVR box here. I know the $130/mo is a massive rape in the pocketbook, but there's no alternatives around here. For phone we have embarq in this area and not only are they worse rate-wise than TW (phone after all the fees runs about the same as TW's, but that's only unlimited local. You have to add on long distance to that. The standard DSL package last time we had it was around the same price as TW's standard tier and only offered 3M/384K and that's the tier cap. Signal/sync rates were great here.), but they seemed to have a fascination with cutting off your DSL service on a random whim, wait for you to call to see WTF is up, then slap you with the ETF and reconnect fees. I will no longer touch them with a 10 mile long pole UNLESS they start offering month to month service. And as far as I can tell, there are very few dsl resellers and none of them decent that will run on embarq.



That sucks. There's no option for AT&T or any of the 'real' providers out there? I can see why TWC would actually look good in that case!







Luckily here in the city we have always had decent phone service. First it was Ohio Bell, then SBC, then back to AT&T. It's pretty consistent in Akron/surrounding suburbs. That's all I have experience with.


AT&T has been about 95-98% flawless. I've only had to restart the modem/restart the computer a few times since it wasn't working. Other than that, I'm happy with it. Speed is good enough for me. I can d/l Bit Torrents, watch streaming video without a problem and it's 'fast'.


----------



## hookbill

Vonage has provided me excellent phone service for over two years. Inundated will back me on this, he's been with them longer then me. Respectfully Chat I say to you if you haven't experienced it don't knock it.


----------



## nickdawg

the claws are out!


fight fight fight!!
























j/k


----------



## Vchat20

My only beef with vonage is the whole 'market it to joe schmoe LONG before the technology has matured'. Unfortunately what you never hear about are the people who have problems with it. Yeah: If you have a decent internet package and don't use it for much more than email or web browsing, it'll work great. But add in a multi-user household with teenagers or someone trying to get away with a 'lite' internet package, and it's going to go to ****. There is QOS, but not many routers with their first party firmwares offer it. And even then, doubt many average joes would know how to set it up.


Past that, I have a beef with VoIP in general and that being all the various failure points for it to have a chance to go wrong.


For the minor extra premium for TW's phone service, I use it because it works and VERY rarely (unless the cable line somewhere along the way is knocked out. But again, very rare. And at that point, any VoIP provider would be dead as well.) goes out. Ever.


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg let me explain how flawed your logic is. The horse was around .centuries before the car but you don't own a horse do you?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16369175
> 
> 
> Nickdawg let me explain how flawed your logic is. The horse was around .centuries before the car but you don't own a horse do you?



But that's only because the car was an improvement on the horse. I don't see something that will not work if your cable internet is down or the power out an improvement over traditional phone. I remember the "blackout" a few years back. Even areas with power didn't have cable since the power at the cable headend was out. Yet my landline phone worked in the dark... That's enough of a selling point for me!


----------



## hookbill

When hour internet goes out or if you have a power failure and your not smart enough to have a natural gas powered generator like me then your calls get forward to your cell or any other number you want t use. So you are protected. I've never had a problem in two years.


----------



## hookbill

Lease excuse typos should be "when your internet goes out". Can't edit with blackberry.


----------



## mnowlin

Hmmm..... I did have a bunch of new SDV HD channels show up on my TiVo today. Curious bit - the tuning adapter decided about the same time to stop working until I rebooted the TiVo. Methinks there's a software bug lurking around....


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16369488
> 
> 
> When hour internet goes out or if you have a power failure and your not smart enough to have a natural gas powered generator like me then your calls get forward to your cell or any other number you want t use. So you are protected. I've never had a problem in two years.



A generator? That the solution...










I told yay, building a better mousetrap. At the end of the day, nothing beats a simple piece of wood with a metal snappy thingy!


----------



## Inundated

I'll separate these into two posts: first about SDV (now, with screenshots!), then about VoIP/Vonage.


First, yes, we have SDV working here, still, in the western Summit County area of the former Adelphia system...fed out of Bath (Bath/Copley/ex-Northampton, etc.).


Here's your proof, as of last night at just before 11 PM:


SDV Mini Carousel screen:











Tuned to USAHD (thought to be an SDV channel by me, confirmed by this screen):











Tuned to WKYCHD (not an SDV channel, confirmed by this screen):











The pixellation problems I posted about last time I talked about SDV...have gone away, as far as I can tell in brief tuning around. It all seems to be in working order on the HD side, SDV channels and non-SDV channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16369116
> 
> 
> Vonage has provided me excellent phone service for over two years. Inundated will back me on this, he's been with them longer then me. Respectfully Chat I say to you if you haven't experienced it don't knock it.



I'm very happy with Vonage. I've had it since it was Earthlink Unlimited Voice, a rebranded service I got through a family member's Internet hookup (they had Earthlink High Speed Internet through the Time Warner lines for whatever reason, and it was just easier/cheaper to do it that way). We're talking around 2003 or so.


The Earthlink VoIP service was just Vonage under the Earthlink banner. Earthlink went their own direction VoIP wise, and let us UV customers loose to Vonage.


I'll admit I'm not a heavy user, but I like the feature set, the free calling range (I once called a hotel in the UK just for kicks, since it's now free with the standard plan!), and it has been trouble-free for me.


Though I use my cell phone for most calling now, I"m afraid to dump Vonage because of the free calling to places like Canada - which would sap cell phone minutes even if they don't charge extra. One reason we went with the service was because I spent hours and hours talking to a woman in Canada. (Long story.







)


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16369773
> 
> 
> Hmmm..... I did have a bunch of new SDV HD channels show up on my TiVo today. Curious bit - the tuning adapter decided about the same time to stop working until I rebooted the TiVo. Methinks there's a software bug lurking around....



My TiVo S2 (SD only!) dutifully brought in the next wave of channels in the guide today. Of course, since it's only an S2, I have to go in and unselect them...the TiVo software guide can detect that you don't get premium channels, but you have to manually pull HD channels from the list on a non-HD box.


----------



## Inundated

And for the record, the promised new HD channels haven't appeared on my Super SDV Equipped (heh!) SA8000HD yet.


I haven't rebooted the box yet, though. I won't bother to do that until A) people here say it helps or B) later in the day or Friday.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16369068
> 
> 
> Vonage is another company I won't touch even if my life depended on it. That and that magicjack garbage. Just my own pet peeves with those two in particular. ....



I've had MagicJack for almost a year which I use when I travel (and I travel weekly). It has been excellent. In between appointments I'll go park somewhere and hop on to an open WiFi (sometimes legally, sometimes not







) and make calls. I made numerous calls from the Caribbean in January where the resort wants to charge $2.00 per minute. MagicJack: $0.00 calling any US # ($20 per year).


I bought one for a charity group here in Cleveland doing work down in El Salvador and they prefer it much better than Skype.


The only time it has not worked is when I've had a poor WiFi connection.


----------



## Vchat20

With magicjack, I hate the fact they tie you into a usb attached device and their windows only bloaty software. If I must use a VoIP provider, I want someone who uses the SIP standard and advertises BYOD. Let me use whatever device I want whether it be a softphone, ATA, or WiFi Phone, all of my own choice.


Also, I have a bit of eliticism. >> I stand by the fact that VoIP is still not completely ready for primetime when it comes to marketing it to joe-sumer. Get IPv6 globally deployed and force ISPs into offering at least 15/2 packages as an absolute minimum and then get back to me.


Back on topic though: No new channels yet here even with a reboot. Will check back around noon and see if they're added.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16369083
> 
> 
> ...............
> 
> And phone. I'm aware of prices, seen the ads. I've been against VOIP since day one when I first learned of it. The one thing that's always worked for me is the phone. It's worked for over 150 years, why mess it up now?



So I take it you don't have a cell phone? No wireless phones in your house? When you make a call do you have to *crank* a lever on the side of the phone?










Many people who tried to use their legacy land-line phones (calling out and receiving calls) during the big black out only got the "all circuits are busy" message anyway. One way or another technology bites you in the ass!


----------



## Vchat20

If you want to get REALLY technical about it nickdawg, even your landline service is partially VoIP.







Those trunk lines between switching centers are all IP based now. All digital, usually 8 bit mono 8khz PCM audio (comes out to roughly 64kbps) which is ample enough for voice.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16370135
> 
> 
> With magicjack, I hate the fact they tie you into a usb attached device and their windows only bloaty software. If I must use a VoIP provider, I want someone who uses the SIP standard and advertises BYOD. Let me use whatever device I want whether it be a softphone, ATA, or WiFi Phone, all of my own choice.
> 
> 
> Also, I have a bit of eliticism. >> I stand by the fact that VoIP is still not completely ready for primetime when it comes to marketing it to joe-sumer. Get IPv6 globally deployed and force ISPs into offering at least 15/2 packages as an absolute minimum and then get back to me.
> 
> 
> Back on topic though: No new channels yet here even with a reboot. Will check back around noon and see if they're added.



VOIP can be glitchy but I've had great service with it including my two VOIP #'s through WOW. They need money coming in to the technology to invest in the technology so it can grow and advance. You think phone service was all that reliable 20 years after Bell started marketing it?










MagicJack is going after the mass market where Windows dominates (good or bad) with 90+% of the market. It must be truly plug and play to penetrate that market and uses well known, existing hardware like the good old wired telephone. Obviously you are not their target market.










I love reading consumer reviews on the MagicJack where you get some great feedback like "...but then it doesn't work when my computer is turned off..." well DUH!







But this is precisely the mainstream market they are selling too!


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16370054
> 
> 
> And for the record, the promised new HD channels haven't appeared on my Super SDV Equipped (heh!) SA8000HD yet.
> 
> 
> I haven't rebooted the box yet, though. I won't bother to do that until A) people here say it helps or B) later in the day or Friday.



What new channels are 'supposed' to be added? I looked on the TWC Ne Ohio website and couldn't find any mention. Not that it matters anyway, just be good to know what I'm *not* getting.


----------



## bassguitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16369488
> 
> 
> When hour internet goes out or if you have a power failure and your not smart enough to have a natural gas powered generator like me then your calls get forward to your cell or any other number you want t use. So you are protected. I've never had a problem in two years.




A generator does you NO GOOD when Time Warners head end goes out. My last power failure last fall Time Warner was dead as a door nail even though I had backup power. Of course the cell phone is still a backup but my landline phone worked great. I even keep a non-cordless non battery powered phone for such emergencies.


Incidently TW's guide data is still all borked up but its better then last night.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16370436
> 
> 
> A generator does you NO GOOD when Time Warners head end goes out. My last power failure last fall Time Warner was dead as a door nail even though I had backup power. Of course the cell phone is still a backup but my landline phone worked great. I even keep a non-cordless non battery powered phone for such emergencies.
> 
> 
> Incidently TW's guide data is still all borked up but its better then last night.



Well, the point is you have a back up with the cell phone. You guys want to live in the 20th century that's up to you.


What's wrong with TW's guide data, last I saw that looked OK


----------



## smoti17

For VoIP, I've used both Vonage and Broadvoice, and vastly prefer Broadvoice - they let you use your own devices, you can have multiple lines for less, and multiple devices per line. IME there' s nothing wrong with VoIP that can't be fixed with decent equipment and a decent ISP connection (I have DSL from both AT&T and Covad local resellers, and neither exactly cuts it on speed or reliability )-: And if there's any ISPs in NE Ohio offering IPv6, I'd love to know who they are. Comcast are way ahead of TWC on IPv6 deployment nationally.


Back to on-topic DTV...


----------



## hookbill

I can understand multiple lines for less, but Vonage allows you all the multiple lines you want.


Quite honestly I have phones made for Vonage so that may be why I never have an issue. I use Vtech phones for Vonage and I have the router that came with it. If that's what you call it. Whatever the central unit is, I got that with the Vonage package of phones.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16370540
> 
> 
> Well, the point is you have a back up with the cell phone. You guys want to live in the 20th century that's up to you.
> 
> 
> What's wrong with TW's guide data, last I saw that looked OK



WBNX-55/407 is missing. No listing, no signal, no guide info. I checked Directv and everything is ok.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16370826
> 
> 
> WBNX-55/407 is missing. No listing, no signal, no guide info. I checked Directv and everything is ok.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Over here in SARA land we have guide data on both channels. I checked the SA 4250 and TiVo.


That must be a Navigator thang...


----------



## bassguitarman

On the guide data many of the items had no descriptions. If I opened the item it would say it was getting the data but would never retrieve it.


----------



## Inundated

Anyone getting the new channels yet?


I can't find the list, but here's what came down on my TiVo yesterday - my TiVo that can't get the new HD channels since it's an SD S2 box










432 - ESPNNews HD

438 - MLB Network HD

450 - TLC HD

452 - Animal Planet HD

460 - ABC Family HD

466 - Bravo HD

486 - CNBC HD


----------



## Inundated

Oh, the TiVo also brought in CNBC World on 358 (SD), but my cable box attached to the TiVo doesn't have it yet.


----------



## hookbill

Maybe TW just doesn't have the capacity to deliver the goods. No SDV = No new HD for everybody?


Cathode Kid, who knows a great deal more then he lets on says they are working hard on several different things over there. I'll bet it's crazy pressure. And I'll also bet people are calling customer service asking about the channels, even though it says "on or after April 29."


Where the heck is nickdawg I wanna hear about his line problem soap opera.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16372433
> 
> 
> Maybe TW just doesn't have the capacity to deliver the goods. No SDV = No new HD for everybody?



Yep, you're right. The channels don't show up less than one day after being promised, so TWC can't do it. They're giving up. No more new HD for us.


We're screwed. They can't ever fix it. We'll never get any more channels. In fact, they'll start having to take away channels, cancel all HD service, and only do SD digital, forever.


Geez! It's only 2 PM on April 30th!







Relax, people!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16372612
> 
> 
> Yep, you're right. The channels don't show up less than one day after being promised, so TWC can't do it. They're giving up. No more new HD for us.
> 
> 
> We're screwed. They can't ever fix it. We'll never get any more channels. In fact, they'll start having to take away channels, cancel all HD service, and only do SD digital, forever.
> 
> 
> Geez! It's only 2 PM on April 30th!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relax, people!!!



OK, wise guy, got some news for you.







Ohio Media Watch is reporting on twitter they are going to have an update either today or tomorrow and they specifically mention TW as one of the items they will be talking about.


Edit: anyway you took me totally out of context. I didn't mean no HD ever. I meant no HD until they get SDV distributed. Possibly.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16372966
> 
> 
> Edit: anyway you took me totally out of context. I didn't mean no HD ever. I meant no HD until they get SDV distributed. Possibly.



My apologies, my friend of feathered friends.










I just grabbed onto your message to express some frustration...and nickdawg wasn't around, so you got it! Consider it no more than a virtual cream pie in the face...


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16372612
> 
> 
> Yep, you're right. The channels don't show up less than one day after being promised, so TWC can't do it. They're giving up. No more new HD for us.
> 
> 
> We're screwed. They can't ever fix it. We'll never get any more channels. In fact, they'll start having to take away channels, cancel all HD service, and only do SD digital, forever.
> 
> 
> Geez! It's only 2 PM on April 30th!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Relax, people!!!



I received a letter last fall from Time Warner Cable that we would have SDV in

October of 2008 and 6 months later no SDV. Looks like it will be October of 2009, if ever.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16373264
> 
> 
> I received a letter last fall from Time Warner Cable that we would have SDV in
> 
> October of 2008 and 6 months later no SDV. Looks like it will be October of 2009, if ever.



I remember that letter and if you recall I said it wouldn't be until Fall of 2009. Lol, I doubt that but certainly they did say SDV would start on 4/9/2009.


----------



## hookbill

OMW just responded to my tweet, nothing solid to report yet. Maybe he will have something about what's going on.


----------



## hookbill

OMW says they are trying to get someone from TW to talk about the HD launch but they probably won't have anything until tomorrow, reminding us all that it was "on or after" 4/29.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16373282
> 
> 
> I remember that letter and if you recall I said it wouldn't be until Fall of 2009. Lol, I doubt that but certainly they did say SDV would start on 4/9/2009.



Yes, the letter states:"Starting on 10/20/08, Time Warner Cable will begin providing a number of our existing, lesser-viewed channels via SDV." They list 95 channels "That will be delivered using SDV beginning 10/20/2008."


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16373264
> 
> 
> I received a letter last fall from Time Warner Cable that we would have SDV in
> 
> October of 2008 and 6 months later no SDV. Looks like it will be October of 2009, if ever.



"If ever"?







And remember...I have SDV on Time Warner Cable RIGHT NOW. Go up a few messages back and see the evidence.


----------



## hookbill

Sorry I can't provide links. Ohio Media Watch says new TW page shows HD channels on hold indefinitely. They do however discuss future HD additions into June that are planned


----------



## nickdawg

Leave it to TWC to screw this up!! Nice Job!!


----------



## hookbill

I don't think its TWs fault. They got stuck with a huge mess between their own system, Comcrap, and Adelphia.


I'm puzzled as to why this group of channels is postponed with no date, yet they are willing to post approximate dates for future HD arrivals.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16375210
> 
> 
> I don't think its TWs fault. They got stuck with a huge mess between their own system, Comcrap, and Adelphia.
> 
> 
> I'm puzzled as to why this group of channels is postponed with no date, yet they are willing to post approximate dates for future HD arrivals.



I'm glad they posted the future channels. The current block here has to be SDV. Once SDV goes through, they can add as many channels as they want. Except now the future channels will be coming faster than before.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16375605
> 
> 
> I'm glad they posted the future channels. The current block here has to be SDV. Once SDV goes through, they can add as many channels as they want. Except now the future channels will be coming faster than before.



But that's the 60 thousand dollar question. When is SDV going to go through?


Inundated still says he has problems from them launching it and that's on SARA equipment. They are not going to launch again until they figure out what happened in that area and other areas they attempted to launch in. At least that's my thinking.


I believe it will get worked out but the question is when? And will we ever see that batch of HD channels that went into HD limbo?


One thing I was very very happy to see was the intent to launch a HD channel for MLB Extra Innings.







I see there are a lot of Dodgers games on that channel but I never get to see the first place Western Division Champs in action.


And speaking of baseball, Tribe fans have got to be very disappointed with what they have seen so far. These guys should have been contenders but they look horrible. I'm predicting a long season for Tribe fans.


Well at least you got the NBA playoffs to look forward to. It will be interesting to see who gets to the NBA Finals.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16376946
> 
> 
> But that's the 60 thousand dollar question. When is SDV going to go through?
> 
> 
> Inundated still says he has problems from them launching it and that's on SARA equipment. They are not going to launch again until they figure out what happened in that area and other areas they attempted to launch in. At least that's my thinking.



Big deal. Picture breaking up, I have the same problem. Even with all my problems, I'm still not saying that we should stop the whole thing. Keep going TWC! It will be easier to figure out with more channels!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16377558
> 
> 
> Big deal. Picture breaking up, I have the same problem. Even with all my problems, I'm still not saying that we should stop the whole thing. Keep going TWC! It will be easier to figure out with more channels!



One moment he hates them. Now he's a cheer leader.


You make me laugh nickdawg.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16377585
> 
> 
> One moment he hates them. Now he's a cheer leader.
> 
> 
> You make me laugh nickdawg.



Oh no, I still despise SDV. But just because I hate it doesn't mean I want all progress to stop, just for ME.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> On or after May 27, 2009 the following services will be added to HD Tier in some areas: Smithsonian & Mav TV.



"Mav TV" has been showing up in my E* EPG for years. There is nothing on it 95% of the time and the other 5% it's showing Dallas Mavericks games that are locked out. I can't understand why this channel even shows up on EPG's outside of the Dallas market area. People on the satellite forums have been wondering the same thing too. So now even cable is adding this non-channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16384441
> 
> 
> "Mav TV" has been showing up in my E* EPG for years. There is nothing on it 95% of the time and the other 5% it's showing Dallas Mavericks games that are locked out. I can't understand why this channel even shows up on EPG's outside of the Dallas market area. People on the satellite forums have been wondering the same thing too. So now even cable is adding this non-channel.



What team is it that Mark Cuban owns? Is it the Dallas Mavericks? He owns either them or the Spurs.


Why it's coming here? Because Time Warner thinks like Mark Cuban? I dunno.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16384454
> 
> 
> What team is it that Mark Cuban owns? Is it the Dallas Mavericks? He owns either them or the Spurs.
> 
> 
> Why it's coming here? Because Time Warner thinks like Mark Cuban? I dunno.



Yes, the Mavs. Cuban made his fortune with technology co's and selling them off to the likes of Yahoo. I wonder if he's setting the groundwork to try a Ted Turner type natl cable/sat network for syndicated programming and then tying that in to some online streaming enterprise.


Total speculation here, but he sure seems to know the right people to do so and (apparently) already has natl carriage of his "Mav" Network.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16384493
> 
> 
> Yes, the Mavs. Cuban made his fortune with technology co's and selling them off to the likes of Yahoo. I wonder if he's setting the groundwork to try a Ted Turner type natl cable/sat network for syndicated programming and then tying that in to some online streaming enterprise.
> 
> 
> Total speculation here, but he sure seems to know the right people to do so and (apparently) already has natl carriage of his "Mav" Network.



I know he did well with HDnet and HDnet Movies. He's always been a pioneer of HD technology.


I liked his reality show, too bad it got cancelled so quickly.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16376946
> 
> 
> Inundated still says he has problems from them launching it and that's on SARA equipment. They are not going to launch again until they figure out what happened in that area and other areas they attempted to launch in. At least that's my thinking.



You missed my recent update, where I said SDV seems to be working fine now... no glitches or pixellation in some time, at least when I've watched. I know I'm getting USAHD via SDV (see the pictures I posted the other day).


Of course, they aren't gonna launch new channels only for the western Summit County area.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steve-O and the Crime Warner Cable crew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The launch of the following HD channels in all areas is postponed with no new date available:



I give up!!










I'm no longer following the 'launch dates' of TWC HD channels. Add what you want, when you want. I don't care. I won't be watching. Which is perfect since I can't watch anyway, as SDV didn't "magically fix itself" here. Looks like I'm going to be sticking to the OLD, SD channel numbers here! It's fine with me.


Now, I'm off to read a book(remember those?). Who wants to join me?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16387895
> 
> 
> I give up!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no longer following the 'launch dates' of TWC HD channels. Add what you want, when you want. I don't care. I won't be watching. Which is perfect since I can't watch anyway, as SDV didn't "magically fix itself" here. Looks like I'm going to be sticking to the OLD, SD channel numbers here! It's fine with me.
> 
> 
> Now, I'm off to read a book(remember those?). Who wants to join me?



Might I suggest:

Fools Rush In: Steve Case, Jerry Levin, and the Unmaking of AOL Time Warner (Paperback)

by Nina Munk (Author)


Stealing Time: Steve Case, Jerry Levin, and the Collapse of AOL Time Warner (Paperback)

by Alec Klein (Author)


There Must Be a Pony in Here Somewhere: The AOL Time Warner Debacle and the Quest for the Digital Future (Paperback)

by Kara Swisher (Author)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16388243
> 
> 
> Might I suggest:
> 
> Fools Rush In: Steve Case, Jerry Levin, and the Unmaking of AOL Time Warner (Paperback)
> 
> by Nina Munk (Author)
> 
> 
> Stealing Time: Steve Case, Jerry Levin, and the Collapse of AOL Time Warner (Paperback)
> 
> by Alec Klein (Author)
> 
> 
> There Must Be a Pony in Here Somewhere: The AOL Time Warner Debacle and the Quest for the Digital Future (Paperback)
> 
> by Kara Swisher (Author)



Just too friggin' funny!


----------



## ErieMarty

channels are going to show up ????


May 15th...May 5th....NEVER !!! lol...


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16370436
> 
> 
> A generator does you NO GOOD when Time Warners head end goes out. My last power failure last fall Time Warner was dead as a door nail even though I had backup power.



FWIW of the 4 different HE's I've been in all had some pretty big a** generators on site plus back up batteries the size of a full size van.

plus batteries on the amps in the field. chances are something took out a feeder line (maybe for the same reason you lost power)


----------



## mnowlin

During the 2003 blackout, we (Cuyahoga Falls) never lost power. I distinctly remember watching news updates via TWC into the wee hours of the morning, and the local head-end is right in the middle of an area that was without power.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16388794
> 
> 
> channels are going to show up ????
> 
> 
> May 15th...May 5th....NEVER !!! lol...



Sorry, ErieMarty we can only accept one answer, not multiple answers. However it has been a pleasure to have you with us and please accept a consolation prize, from our good friends at TW, where we will dial 911 and have somebody come by and remove the knife they stuck in your back.


Thanks for being on todays show and we hope everybody tunes in next week to see "Crime Warner - The Power to Screw You." So from myself and the lovely nickdawg, have a Good Evening.


----------



## bassguitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16390484
> 
> 
> FWIW of the 4 different HE's I've been in all had some pretty big a** generators on site plus back up batteries the size of a full size van.
> 
> plus batteries on the amps in the field. chances are something took out a feeder line (maybe for the same reason you lost power)



Time Warne came back when the power came back. So either their batteries didnt work or they dont have such equipment in the former Adelphia market.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16393240
> 
> 
> Sorry, ErieMarty we can only accept one answer, not multiple answers. However it has been a pleasure to have you with us and please accept a consolation prize, from our good friends at TW, where we will dial 911 and have somebody come by and remove the knife they stuck in your back.
> 
> 
> Thanks for being on todays show and we hope everybody tunes in next week to see "Crime Warner - The Power to Screw You." So from myself and the lovely nickdawg, have a Good Evening.



That sums it up. Now stay tuned for another exciting episode of "As the Cable Unwinds...", sponsored by AT&T!


----------



## Vchat20

More firewire fun here: Just out of curiosity and wanting some good quality, I checked to see if Palladia was open to record or not. I had their 3hr 'HD Videos' block recorded this morning. Lo and behold it let me grab it over firewire. I'm shocked really. I expected MTV/Viacom/whoever to be over-protective and keep it locked down.


Another thing I noticed: I dunno what exactly the culprit is here whether it's the source feed or Time Warner, but the SDV channels seem to be a bit lesser PQ than the non-SDV HD channels even though they all average out around 15mb/s equally. I can clearly tell a PQ difference between, say, Palladia, USA, or Discovery in comparison to the OTA stations, TNT, TBS, etc..


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16393401
> 
> 
> Time Warne came back when the power came back. So either their batteries didnt work or they dont have such equipment in the former Adelphia market.



Thats possible. as I think about it the four were former comcast & cablevision plants


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16398121
> 
> 
> More firewire fun here: Just out of curiosity and wanting some good quality, I checked to see if Palladia was open to record or not. I had their 3hr 'HD Videos' block recorded this morning. Lo and behold it let me grab it over firewire. I'm shocked really. I expected MTV/Viacom/whoever to be over-protective and keep it locked down.
> 
> 
> Another thing I noticed: I dunno what exactly the culprit is here whether it's the source feed or Time Warner, but the SDV channels seem to be a bit lesser PQ than the non-SDV HD channels even though they all average out around 15mb/s equally. I can clearly tell a PQ difference between, say, Palladia, USA, or Discovery in comparison to the OTA stations, TNT, TBS, etc..



Also, I think I have come to another interesting thought. I think when it comes to these boxes, the quality of the firewire transfer and the amount of 'packet loss' is relative to the cpu power and load.


Lost frames, glitchy sections of video, etc. all seem to be proportional to the resolution and bitrate of what program I am transferring. 480i SD seems to be just fine with no glitches most of the time (A clip from the Weather Channel I uploaded to YT a short while back which is a direct upload of the TS file off of VLC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XzOZeCpk0 ), 720p adds some, and 1080i is even more problematic.


Add into this the fact we already know how underpowered these 8300HDC's are. I also did notice how some of this improved slightly and got less of a glitchy mess when we got bumped to ODN 3.1.1_3.


So with that said, another reason I am anxiously waiting for the Samsung boxes to come here.


----------



## bassguitarman

Time Warner former Adelphia area. Only have guide data till thursday again


----------



## bassguitarman

Update , I got some guide data by restarting the 8300HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16407572
> 
> 
> Update , I got some guide data by restarting the 8300HD



My S3 just rebooted for absolutely no reason that I can tell. Strange.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16398988
> 
> 
> Thats possible. as I think about it the four were former comcast & cablevision plants



I've used my Internet connection here while the area was blacked out, though presumably it's possible that the headend itself wasn't in the dark.


I'm in a former Adelphia area. I can't remember if the service was Adelphia PowerLink, or TWC Roadrunner at that point...I think the latter. The cable modem and router were kept alive on a UPS here at home, and I was on a laptop...


The headend for me, as noted in this HDTV discussion, is in Bath...


----------



## Adam P

So I got my tuning adapter for my TiVo HD yesterday from TW. Is there any sense in hooking this thing up yet? I'm in South Euclid, and last I checked, I'm not missing any of the channels that are supposed to be switching to SDV. I'm mostly looking at the HD sports channels (HD Sports, STO, Big 10 HD, etc).


----------



## ed1202

Since you follow this, nickdawg, I thought I'd let you know that newsnet5.com has rebranded thier homepage banner to "WEWS 5 ABC". That's reduced their "Newschannel 5" moniker down to their newscast branding only...


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16408321
> 
> 
> I've used my Internet connection here while the area was blacked out, though presumably it's possible that the headend itself wasn't in the dark.
> 
> 
> I'm in a former Adelphia area. I can't remember if the service was Adelphia PowerLink, or TWC Roadrunner at that point...I think the latter. The cable modem and router were kept alive on a UPS here at home, and I was on a laptop...
> 
> 
> The headend for me, as noted in this HDTV discussion, is in Bath...



The only times I've lost RR internet during a power outage was when it was caused by a weather event that broke the cable as well as the power feeder. My UPS keeps the cable modem, router and VOIP interface running for quite a long time (if its going to be down for more than a few hours, I'd get the generator going!). Having a couple self-powered phones helps too!


I also have my entertainment center (DVR/TV/Receiver) on a UPS so that momentary power dropouts don't leave the equipment (especially the SA-8300HD DVR) in an "unknown" state requiring a re-boot. This used to happen much more often at my previous residence in Hamburg, NY and, before I got the UPS was a royal PITA!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16409402
> 
> 
> So I got my tuning adapter for my TiVo HD yesterday from TW. Is there any sense in hooking this thing up yet? I'm in South Euclid, and last I checked, I'm not missing any of the channels that are supposed to be switching to SDV. I'm mostly looking at the HD sports channels (HD Sports, STO, Big 10 HD, etc).



Go ahead and set it up just to make sure its working. You should see a new setting for it in your cable card & devices menu. Check the SDV Carousel to see if those zeros are replaced by numbers. When they are you will know SDV is active.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16364860
> 
> 
> My Tivo has likewise added the following channels to its lineup: 432, 438, 450, 452, 460, 466, 486 (& 358 last week). If I select any of them, I get an new error message "The tuning adapter is not able to provide these channels". And no sign of SDV activity on the tuning adapter. So it indeed looks like they hit the no SDV capacity yet bottleneck.



Are the Tivo's still showing the new channel #'s?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16410025
> 
> 
> Are the Tivo's still showing the new channel #'s?



That would be a big NO.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16410082
> 
> 
> That would be a big NO.



What? Tivo took the numbers away? Something really, really bad must be happening. I'd assume TWC contacted Tribune (or whoever supplies Tivo guide data) and told them to cut those channels.


Not that I care about TWC HD, of course.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16410783
> 
> 
> What? Tivo took the numbers away? Something really, really bad must be happening. I'd assume TWC contacted Tribune (or whoever supplies Tivo guide data) and told them to cut those channels.
> 
> 
> Not that I care about TWC HD, of course.



No, I thought he was asking if TiVo's were capable of showing the channels. Yes, they are still on the guide.


----------



## hookbill

Hey nickdawg did you sign up with AT&T? I know you were thinking about it. Tell us about it if you did.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16409423
> 
> 
> Since you follow this, nickdawg, I thought I'd let you know that newsnet5.com has rebranded thier homepage banner to "WEWS 5 ABC". That's reduced their "Newschannel 5" moniker down to their newscast branding only...



There it is:











Also, during Live on Five yesterday I saw bumper commercial around 5:30 that said something like: "First in Cleveland", "First in Ohio" WEWS Channel 5.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16410831
> 
> 
> Hey nickdawg did you sign up with AT&T? I know you were thinking about it. Tell us about it if you did.



No, unfortunately. I haven't seen any of the "big ugly boxes" anywhere near my street. So I don't think it is even an option(unfortunately).


When I said I was "done" I meant it in no longer religiously reading the TWC website. No more stressing over "which SDV channel(s) are not working today".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16410869
> 
> 
> No, unfortunately. I haven't seen any of the "big ugly boxes" anywhere near my street. So I don't think it is even an option(unfortunately).
> 
> 
> When I said I was "done" I meant it in no longer religiously reading the TWC website. No more stressing over "which SDV channel(s) are not working today".



As much advertising as they do who the hell does get it?


----------



## nickdawg

Does anyone in Cleveland/Akron/Canto have it?


----------



## mnowlin

Had an odd and very annoying problem tonight... Watching a recorded show on my Tivo, and saw that the LED on the TWC tuning adapter started blinking. A few minutes later, up pops this "A Tuning Adapter has been found" message on the Tivo, and the two recordings in progress stopped. (Both "recording" LEDs went out.) I started up the recordings manually, and the same thing happened again about two minutes later. So now, I have a three-part CSI:New York and a three-part whatever show my wife was recording...


Not horrible since I was there and could start up the recordings again within a few seconds, but all hell will break loose in my home if this ever happens during Survivor when we're not watching TV...


Grrr... Seriously hope Tivo fixes this.... The bigger question is why did the tuning adapter lose sync (or reboot, or whatever) in the first place?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16414555
> 
> 
> Had an odd and very annoying problem tonight... Watching a recorded show on my Tivo, and saw that the LED on the TWC tuning adapter started blinking. A few minutes later, up pops this "A Tuning Adapter has been found" message on the Tivo, and the two recordings in progress stopped. (Both "recording" LEDs went out.) I started up the recordings manually, and the same thing happened again about two minutes later. So now, I have a three-part CSI:New York and a three-part whatever show my wife was recording...
> 
> 
> Not horrible since I was there and could start up the recordings again within a few seconds, but all hell will break loose in my home if this ever happens during Survivor when we're not watching TV...
> 
> 
> Grrr... Seriously hope Tivo fixes this.... The bigger question is why did the tuning adapter lose sync (or reboot, or whatever) in the first place?



What makes you think its a tivo issue? It sounds to me like a TA problem.


It could also be that TW is fooling around testing SDV.


Keep in mind that TiVo does not manufacture the TA, Ciisco does. They also make those pos DVRs which do exactly what you described.


If it happens again get another TA.


----------



## scnrfrq

Does anyone know the effect of using amplified splitters on TW cable and internet? I've used them in my house for quite sometime, even though when TW checks outside, they say the signal is strong enough. I have 5 TV's and Roadrunner hooked up.


Lately I've been getting more pixewlation and tiling on the digital/HD channels, and my internet is intermittently going off for a few minutes at a time, coming back by itself usually. Should I try unhooking the amplified splitters? That's what TW does whenever they look at my setup, but then I really notice breakups on channels. They did just rebuild our system, so maybe I don't need the amplification now, but it's a pain to rewire things.


Any ideas?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16417504
> 
> 
> Does anyone know the effect of using amplified splitters on TW cable and internet? I've used them in my house for quite sometime, even though when TW checks outside, they say the signal is strong enough. I have 5 TV's and Roadrunner hooked up.
> 
> 
> Lately I've been getting more pixewlation and tiling on the digital/HD channels, and my internet is intermittently going off for a few minutes at a time, coming back by itself usually. Should I try unhooking the amplified splitters? That's what TW does whenever they look at my setup, but then I really notice breakups on channels. They did just rebuild our system, so maybe I don't need the amplification now, but it's a pain to rewire things.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?



Check the signal both on your cable box and the cable modem with and without the amplified splitters. With the cable box, do it on various channels to get a snapshot of various sections of the cable spectrum.


In general, a good signal usually means -15db to +15db on the downstream with a centered 0db being golden, at least a 35db SNR, and an upstream below 55db with lower being better.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16414855
> 
> 
> What makes you think its a tivo issue? It sounds to me like a TA problem.
> 
> 
> It could also be that TW is fooling around testing SDV.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that TiVo does not manufacture the TA, Ciisco does. They also make those pos DVRs which do exactly what you described.
> 
> 
> If it happens again get another TA.



It's probably TWC screwing around with SDV. It's always SDV's fault. Always.










And you know I'm going to disagree with the TA manufacturer being at fault. My new 8240HDC hasn't missed a recording or rebooted itself(or have I had to reboot it) in the almost two weeks I've had it. Only problem is those #^(&!$% SDV channels. But if I ignore the HD channels, my box is perfect 100% of the time. But it sounds like the SDV channels are just as unreliable on Tivo as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16418828
> 
> 
> It's probably TWC screwing around with SDV. It's always SDV's fault. Always.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you know I'm going to disagree with the TA manufacturer being at fault. My new 8240HDC hasn't missed a recording or rebooted itself(or have I had to reboot it) in the almost two weeks I've had it. Only problem is those #^(&!$% SDV channels. But if I ignore the HD channels, my box is perfect 100% of the time. But it sounds like the SDV channels are just as unreliable on Tivo as well.



I shouldn't have taken a shot at Cisco, really, they are a good company. It's just I don't have faith in SARA as a software. It could however be a problem with the tuner adapter.


More then likely it's them fooling around testing SDV. I haven't seen any sign of life for SDV at all. Don't know what's holding them back.


TW started looking good for a short time at keeping their promises. They did get the tuner adapters out before the 4/9 date but they didn't deliver SDV as they said they would by that date. Then the postponed delivery of the 4/29 HD channels. I still think they got themselves in this jam by buying Adelphia.


----------



## nickdawg

Why did they 'postpone' the channels? I think a majority of people have SDV and thus the majority should get the new channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16419160
> 
> 
> Why did they 'postpone' the channels? I think a majority of people have SDV and thus the majority should get the new channels.



First, I disagree that the "majority" have SDV. You really don't know that, your taking a guess.


But let's for the sake of argument say your correct. If you recall in the interview with Jassoe he said that they would not give out HD channels unless everybody on the TW system could get them as that wouldn't be fair for the people who don't have SDV (described as "new technology."


We don't know for sure if that's the hang up. The one person who does know, he ain't talking and he knows who he is.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16419191
> 
> 
> First, I disagree that the "majority" have SDV. You really don't know that, your taking a guess.
> 
> 
> But let's for the sake of argument say your correct. If you recall in the interview with Jassoe he said that they would not give out HD channels unless everybody on the TW system could get them as that wouldn't be fair for the people who don't have SDV (described as "new technology."
> 
> 
> We don't know for sure if that's the hang up. The one person who does know, he ain't talking and he knows who he is.



I think it is a "majority" or at least enough to not be favoring one area over another. All of existing TWC, All of existing Comcast and a good portion of ex-Adelphia in northern Summit and southern Cuyahoga have SDV. Sounds like enough to start rolling out channels. But I know how Jassole is. He's trying to treat a bunch of unequal areas as 'equal'.


Maybe we should call Cheney to interrogate that 'person who knows'. LOL!!!
























Really, I don't blame him for not talking. If CWC is just as s----y to its employees as it is to its customers, then I'll bet this person would risk losing their job if they say too much.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16417560
> 
> 
> In general, a good signal usually means -15db to +15db on the downstream with a centered 0db being golden, at least a 35db SNR, and an upstream below 55db with lower being better.



Correct - those are the SCTE (and general industry) specs. The only difference is for HD (256 QAM) channels, where the low limit iis -12dbmv instead of -15 because of the higher modulation density.


Some of those inexpensive amplifiers can introduce distortions which can be completely invisible to a simple signal strength reading. Distortion can cause macroblocking and freezing. These errors can show up as a high number of uncorrected bytes or as a poor BER or MER.


The worst of those inexpensive rf amps can also cause problems. They're the ones with really crummy gain adjustment pots. Those pots get intermittent, causing the signal level to fluctuate erratically, which can cause all sorts of chaos in video and HSD services.


Also as a general rule, stick with RG-6 cabling with the newer compression fittings. These are the type that use a piston-style compression tool, and the finished connection forms a perfect 360-degree crimp around the braid, making for a better impedance match, reducing microreflections and keeping out ingress.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16419707
> 
> 
> Maybe we should call Cheney to interrogate that 'person who knows'. LOL!!!



Still lots of work going on behind the scenes. Patience, they're busting their butts over this right now.


Now turn off that faucet.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16414855
> 
> 
> What makes you think its a tivo issue? It sounds to me like a TA problem.
> 
> 
> It could also be that TW is fooling around testing SDV.



Oh, I agree it's likely TW fooling around... I'm just not thrilled with how the Tivo reacts to the TA rebooting or whatever it did. Canceling active recording jobs? I could understand that if it was recording SDV channels, but this was CBS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16419970
> 
> 
> Still lots of work going on behind the scenes. Patience, they're busting their butts over this right now.
> 
> 
> Now turn off that faucet.



The fact that they may be working their tails off doesn't excuse the lack of planning, and testing they did not do before just jumping off the ledge with a flawed SDV.


I'm not big on having like 100 channels of unnecessary HD but I do expect that TW would test something before implementing it. And now with your comment, and I can only read between the lines so much, it appears that SDV is indeed the reason that the channels were held up from April 29.


All I got to say is that when they do dump this pile of garbage into my area it better damn well work with the tuner adapter like it's suppose to, like it does for thousands of other TiVo owners across the Country. I don't want to be in a position like poor Ed is in where he has access to only the pre non SDV channels.


In 5 years I'm hoping that TiVo will once again strike a deal with D*. I understand they launched an Eastern satellite a while back perhaps I can get a signal that way. What other choice do I have except OTA?


The last two days I've had to reset my modem because the internet isn't working in the morning. What's up with that? How about a little reliability TW?


OK I'm done complaining.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16422019
> 
> 
> The fact that they may be working their tails off doesn't excuse the lack of planning, and testing they did not do before just jumping off the ledge with a flawed SDV.
> 
> 
> I'm not big on having like 100 channels of unnecessary HD but I do expect that TW would test something before implementing it. And now with your comment, and I can only read between the lines so much, it appears that SDV is indeed the reason that the channels were held up from April 29.
> 
> 
> All I got to say is that when they do dump this pile of garbage into my area it better damn well work with the tuner adapter like it's suppose to, like it does for thousands of other TiVo owners across the Country. I don't want to be in a position like poor Ed is in where he has access to only the pre non SDV channels.
> 
> 
> In 5 years I'm hoping that TiVo will once again strike a deal with D*. I understand they launched an Eastern satellite a while back perhaps I can get a signal that way. What other choice do I have except OTA?
> 
> 
> The last two days I've had to reset my modem because the internet isn't working in the morning. What's up with that? How about a little reliability TW?
> 
> 
> OK I'm done complaining.



OK, nickdawg!







I hope you get what you want.


----------



## Vchat20

On a different note, I emailed TWC last night in optimistic hopes of finding out any info on if and when the Samsung boxes will be reaching our area.


I got the expected canned response and a link to the equipment page on the website. BUT. Of all things I do see a Samsung listed about 3 from the bottom: http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...#Digital+Cable Unfortunately it is a non-DVR HD box. So still a waiting game it seems here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16424655
> 
> 
> OK, nickdawg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you get what you want.



Oh crap, that is scary isn't it?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16422019
> 
> 
> 
> All I got to say is that when they do dump this pile of garbage into my area it better damn well work with the tuner adapter like it's suppose to, like it does for thousands of other TiVo owners across the Country. *I don't want to be in a position like poor Ed is in where he has access to only the pre non SDV channels.*



Also, let the record show that SDV channels do not work, even with TWC equipment.


I get the feeling that might be why TWC has blown me of lately. They probably know it cannot be fixed that easily and thus told me a 'bucket truck' would be coming. It's been two weeks(again) and it still has not come.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16422019
> 
> 
> In 5 years I'm hoping that TiVo will once again strike a deal with D*.



D* is projecting a Tivo option for next year:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/16425434
> 
> 
> D* is projecting a Tivo option for next year:
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138443



Cool. I heard talk about it a while back. I still would wait the 5 years minimum just because of the type of equipment I have currently.


I really liked D*.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16398121
> 
> 
> Another thing I noticed: I dunno what exactly the culprit is here whether it's the source feed or Time Warner, but the SDV channels seem to be a bit lesser PQ than the non-SDV HD channels even though they all average out around 15mb/s equally. I can clearly tell a PQ difference between, say, Palladia, USA, or Discovery in comparison to the OTA stations, TNT, TBS, etc..



WHEN THE SDV CHANNELS WORK, I have noticed that on some of them. It pissed me off on a 2.35:1 presentation on MGM HD when the color of the letterbox bars from the source looked a bit lighter black than the bars generated by the box. Other channels have looked normal.


I see you list the channels. I wonder why USA is SDV but not TNT or TBS. And don't say "more people watch..." because USA network is 'cable's #1 network' and has the highest rated shows WWE RAW, In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Psych, Monk. I really hope TWC is "Fair" and puts TNT and TBS on SDV eventually.


On an unrelated note: I watched _In Plain Sight_ on Sunday night. No problems, no glitches at all. I did watch the SD channel, but there were no problems and no glitches!














I haven't even looked at one SDV channel in the last week and I've never been happier!










Also noteworthy: Today at a little after 4pm is two weeks that I have had the 8240HDC box. It also marks two weeks that it has not rebooted itself or have I had to manually reboot it. That's the best I have ever seen out of a Navigator box. (I think not tuning error-filled SDV channels helped that!)


----------



## rmanderson26

I have TWC in Westlake and just noticed that I have Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Plant, ABC Family, ESPNews and MLB in HD aka the channels that were supposed to be postponed. Does anyone else have these channels?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmanderson26* /forum/post/16426020
> 
> 
> I have TWC in Westlake and just noticed that I have Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Plant, ABC Family, ESPNews and MLB in HD aka the channels that were supposed to be postponed. Does anyone else have these channels?



Do you have a Tivo DVR or a TWC box? Also, do the channels work or is there just a guide listing for them?


----------



## rmanderson26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16426088
> 
> 
> Do you have a Tivo DVR or a TWC box? Also, do the channels work or is there just a guide listing for them?



I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD and all the channels work. I'm watching CNBCHD right now.


----------



## Vchat20

Can you check your diag and see if they are SDV or not?


Just checked here on my 8300HDC and even rebooted. Still nothing.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16426116
> 
> 
> Can you check your diag and see if they are SDV or not?
> 
> 
> Just checked here on my 8300HDC and even rebooted. Still nothing.



I rebooted the 4250HDC(not ruining my two-weeks with no reboot on the 8240HDC







). No HD channels added. Not that I care or anything!


----------



## Vchat20

But still interesting that he has them AND they are watchable. So crossing fingers it's coming for the rest of us.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16426164
> 
> 
> But still interesting that he has them AND they are watchable. So crossing fingers it's coming for the rest of us.



But if they are SDV(what isn't these days) they probably won't be watchable. They'll be as bad as the rest. The people in the SARA areas(excluding Bath) are lucky as the 5 channels from 3/31 are still non-SDV.


Consider yourself lucky, hook! The glass is half full!


----------



## rmanderson26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16426116
> 
> 
> Can you check your diag and see if they are SDV or not?
> 
> 
> Just checked here on my 8300HDC and even rebooted. Still nothing.



Here is a picture of my SDV Status Screen for MLB HD.











And here is a picture of MLB HD


----------



## nickdawg

Hey hookbill!! Check your box or reboot it. Maybe there are changes in the ex-Adelphia areas?


----------



## grantmc

I live in Avon (ex Adelphia) with a 8300HD with SARA and I have the same channels as rmanderson26! They just came in today!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16426418
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill!! Check your box or reboot it. Maybe there are changes in the ex-Adelphia areas?




I will have an answer in about 10 minutes.


----------



## hookbill

No new hd channels here. Checked the 4250 and TiVo. Bummer.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16427039
> 
> 
> No new hd channels here. Checked the 4250 and TiVo. Bummer.



I have all HDC boxes, you have an HDC box and cable card Tivos. Maybe they "forgot" to turn on the channels for cable card viewers? I'd fire off an email to that "TWC contact" right now if I were you or if I gave a crap about new channels.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16427107
> 
> 
> I have all HDC boxes, you have an HDC box and cable card Tivos. Maybe they "forgot" to turn on the channels for cable card viewers? I'd fire off an email to that "TWC contact" right now if I were you or if I gave a crap about new channels.



There's only one eensy thought about that theory: Even though the HDC's use cablecards, they have never gotten the same 'channel missing' or 'inaccessible' problems that seem to regularly plague Tivo/TV cablecard users.


But by all means if you wanna call, go ahead. May just be a rare case in this situation.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/16426666
> 
> 
> I live in Avon (ex Adelphia) with a 8300HD with SARA and I have the same channels as rmanderson26! They just came in today!



Thanks for checking in. The rest of us should be getting them soon. I'm going to reboot the 4250.


Rebooted still no channels.


----------



## ClevIndn

Tivo in Sheffield here.


Multiple HD channels haven't been working since I got back from work.. STO, DSC, PLD, UHD, HDNET, HDNETMV, MGMHD.


Had to watch Granderson steal away an Indians victory in Standard Def










Anyone else having any issues?


And none of the new HD channels working here either.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16427125
> 
> 
> There's only one eensy thought about that theory: Even though the HDC's use cablecards, they have never gotten the same 'channel missing' or 'inaccessible' problems that seem to regularly plague Tivo/TV cablecard users.
> 
> 
> But by all means if you wanna call, go ahead. May just be a rare case in this situation.



I'm citing what happened on March 31. The box I used to have with MDN had the channels right away in the morning. But the OCAP box(then on ODN2) did not have the channels until later when I rebooted it. It is like TWC is running two separate systems. One for old boxes, one for cable cards.


And for the record, I have had "inaccessible" channels. Seen the "Channel currently unavailable" message on the SDV channels many times.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16427139
> 
> 
> Tivo in Sheffield here.
> 
> 
> Multiple HD channels haven't been working since I got back from work.. STO, DSC, PLD, UHD, HDNET, HDNETMV, MGMHD.
> 
> 
> Had to watch Granderson steal away an Indians victory in Standard Def
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else having any issues?
> 
> 
> And none of the new HD channels working here either.



Sounds like another victim of the SDV plague!!


Do you have a Cisco Tuning Adapter box?


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16427162
> 
> 
> Sounds like another victim of the SDV plague!!
> 
> 
> Do you have a Cisco Tuning Adapter box?



I do yes. Hooked it up few weeks ago.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16427181
> 
> 
> I do yes. Hooked it up few weeks ago.



All I can say is try rebooting the TA box and the Tivo.


Hookbill, wanna chime in here? Hookbill is the Tivo expert here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16427181
> 
> 
> I do yes. Hooked it up few weeks ago.



I'd reboot TiVo and see what happens.


----------



## hookbill

I fired off an email about us not having channels and told them I know other ex Adelphia areas that have them.


They are now asking for a friggin pin number or the last 4 of your social just to send an email!!!


Going upstairs to watch Dodgers. Will follow you guys via blackberry if anything happens I'll let you know.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16427232
> 
> 
> I fired off an email about us not having channels and told them I know other ex Adelphia areas that have them.
> 
> 
> They are now asking for a friggin pin number or the last 4 of your social just to send an email!!!
> 
> 
> Going upstairs to watch Dodgers. Will follow you guys via blackberry if anything happens I'll let you know.



I noticed the same thing. 'Tis why I only manually email [email protected] instead of going through the website.







Still seems to end up in the same place and get the same response, but without the garbage.


----------



## nickdawg

I rebooted the 4250HDC, no new channels in Akron. So much for that...


----------



## hookbill

I think that we all will have the channels by tomorrow. The guy who sent the screen shots is not SDV. Don't know why the delay at head end in our area.


My email is flashing. Maybe TW.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmanderson26* /forum/post/16426108
> 
> 
> I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD and all the channels work. I'm watching CNBCHD right now.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grantmc* /forum/post/16426666
> 
> 
> I live in Avon (ex Adelphia) with a 8300HD with SARA and I have the same channels as rmanderson26! They just came in today!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16427139
> 
> 
> Tivo in Sheffield here.
> 
> 
> Multiple HD channels haven't been working since I got back from work.. STO, DSC, PLD, UHD, HDNET, HDNETMV, MGMHD.
> 
> 
> Had to watch Granderson steal away an Indians victory in Standard Def
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else having any issues?
> 
> 
> And none of the new HD channels working here either.



the interesting part is all three are served from the same headend


FWIW, the new channels haven't hit the former Comcast West zone yet

Oh how unfair


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16427329
> 
> 
> I think that we all will have the channels by tomorrow. The guy who sent the screen shots is not SDV. Don't know why the delay at head end in our area.
> 
> 
> My email is flashing. Maybe TW.



Yes it is SDV. Did you not see the "Active" on the left side of the screen? Plus there is(I believe) 573-which is a SDV frequency.


Ass channels on a Saturday?







You're joking, right?


Also, was it TWC??


----------



## hookbill

Are all these people with the new HD channels on the west side? I just checked with a girl on twitter to see if she got the new channels and she confirmed she had them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16427545
> 
> 
> Yes it is SDV. Did you not see the "Active" on the left side of the screen? Plus there is(I believe) 573-which is a SDV frequency.
> 
> 
> Ass channels on a Saturday?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're joking, right?
> 
> 
> Also, was it TWC??



I saw it said idle also and there were zeros where there should have been numbers. However if the Tivo guy is on the same head end you are right. But I gotta tell you that looked like my. 4250 screen and I know I don't have SDV.


----------



## hookbill

Response I got from TW was a bs answer, we understand you want channels from 4/29, request is being escalated blah blah


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16427727
> 
> 
> Response I got from TW was a bs answer, we understand you want channels from 4/29, request is being escalated blah blah



Seriously? "The request is being escalated"? Oooohhh, better call Jack Bauer before this gets to be a Level 5, Code red Stage 4 disaster!!






































I want to know why areas that just got SDV have the channels and areas that have had SDV are left in the dark. Not that I give a ratsass, considering the damn channels probably wouldn't work for me anyway!
























Hook, I think it is time to contact your REAL TWC person, not the system the peasants must use!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16427762
> 
> 
> Seriously? "The request is being escalated"? Oooohhh, better call Jack Bauer before this gets to be a Level 5, Code red Stage 4 disaster!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know why areas that just got SDV have the channels and areas that have had SDV are left in the dark. Not that I give a ratsass, considering the damn channels probably wouldn't work for me anyway!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hook, I think it is time to contact your REAL TWC person, not the system the peasants must use!



I'm gonn give the weekend. If e don't have it by Sunday I will do my own escalation.


----------



## nickdawg

Thank you Crime Warner and fxck you Crime Warner!!! Right now as I am about to go to bed, both of my boxes reboot. Being an stupid moron I decide to check if there are any new channels. The channels are there, except EVERYTHING says "Unavailable" and "Press A". Which did nothing at all. After flipping through the channels it was even more messed up. Even 3 no longer worked, where the box rebooted AGAIN!!


Take your SDV and SHOVE IT!!! This box worked perfectly for TWO WEEKS when I avoided every channel in the 400s range. Just by going to those channels it turned into a piece of crap after less than ten minutes!! Tomorrow I call CWC and tell them I want EVERY channel between 400 and 499 SHUT OFF and I want the charge for those channels removed from my bill!!


----------



## lewis1982

just got the channels also..tlc and mlb just black screen with audio.. others are working fine


----------



## Vchat20

Sounds like your headend is pretty lousy nickdawg if you are having so many problems. Should realise by now SDV varies between each headend/neighborhood. Just sounds like you need to be more agressive in getting something done.










I mean, we have you area which has crappy SDV services even though you have eliminated the incoming signal as a problem, ex-adelphia/comcast territory is still AWOL, and in these parts it is working just awesomely. And then we have tonight's exhibition where the newer channels appear to be showing up in waves across the region.


(Edit: Haven't checked my 8300HDC yet since my brother is hogging that tv. But will check and update within the next half hour or so.)


----------



## nickdawg

Now there's frozen/breaking up picture and cutting in and out sound on all the channels.


Anyone want a free HD set? I think I know where you'll find one on the curb next week! :veryevilsmiley:


----------



## lewis1982

having same problem with animal planet and a couple others..freezing..havent had any problems what so ever before these channels just arrived..well see what happens... anybody else just have a black screen with audio on mlb and tlc


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16428008
> 
> 
> having same problem with animal planet and a couple others..freezing..havent had any problems what so ever before these channels just arrived..well see what happens... anybody else just have a black screen with audio on mlb and tlc



Are you former Adelphia or Comcast? If so, it's probably because TWC just activated SDV = Switch Digital Video in your area. Other than being the worst invention in the history of man kind, SDV is a way for cable companies to "cheat" and add more channels on the same amount of bandwidth they already have.


See kids, this is why cheating is wrong!










S D V = EPIC FAIL!!


(ooohhh, I'm so excited!! I get to use LOL Cats and Failblog pictures here!







)


----------

This is what is going on behind the scenes on TWC's computer!!


----------



## lewis1982

former adelphia..i thought we had sdv already but im a newbie about it..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16428034
> 
> 
> former adelphia..i thought we had sdv already but im a newbie about it..



Are you Adelphia in Northern Summit County/Southern Cuyahoga or another part of the system? Before today, the only Adelphia areas that had SDV were ones with the headend in Bath (Northern Summit/ parts of Cuyahoga).


It was supposed to happen all the way back on April 9th but as usual with TWC it was delayed. A letter was sent to Tivo owners back then. You've come to the right place. We have plenty of people "in the know" here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16427980
> 
> 
> (Edit: Haven't checked my 8300HDC yet since my brother is hogging that tv. But will check and update within the next half hour or so.)



Are those channels working in your area?


Edit: I left it on FAMHD for about 15 minutes and it just stopped. Black screen with no picture/sound.


Right about now I'm really wishing there were some grounds for a lawsuit to be filed that would bring SDV to a screeching halt, just like what happened in Hawaii. But too bad TWC has their butts covered this time and everyone has a TA.


If sucky service were enough justification for a lawsuit, TWC would be in court every day.


----------



## lewis1982

nope another part....o man ill update tomorrow with all the problems lol..so far its a mess, was flawless before these new channels rolled in..nickdawg can u try animal planet it freezes for me every 5 minutes..others arent doing that


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16428054
> 
> 
> nope another part....o man ill update tomorrow with all the problems lol..so far its a mess, was flawless before these new channels rolled in



It was exactly the same here. What pissed me off the most was my PAY CHANNELS (470-473) are a part of this SDV garbage. So now I PAY $6 a month for unwatchable channels. Plus all of our bills went up to fund this crap project.


----------



## lewis1982

hey nickdawg do you know which channels are sdv, so i can test the right ones


----------



## Vchat20

Just checked mine and it says it was rebooted about 3:08 and the new channels are added. All but MLB and TLC work great. Those, indeed, have a black screen and audio. And it seems like the video is missing entirely because the box stays at the previous channel resolution even coming from 480i.


I didn't look too hard but I couldn't find CNBCHD right away. Probably skipped over it though.


Bravo has Wargames on though at 8AM so I'm setting that to record and see how well it survives.


----------



## lewis1982

vchat did you try animal planet..every couple minutes it freezes and stays that way unless i change it then turn it then back on


----------



## Vchat20

Ok. They put CNBCHD WAY up there on 486 where I didn't look.


Animal Planet looks just fine after a couple minutes. no dropouts or glitches of any kind.

CNBCHD the same as APL. Looks perfect.

BravoHD the same.

ABCFAM the same.

TLC, as above, is blank.

MLBHD is blank too.


Also looks like the SDV freq. list in Navigator is stale. Still reads just 585 and 573, but I am also seeing 603 and 597 for starters (may be more slots depending on factors.)


----------



## Vchat20

I should also add the anecdote that we get a lot of activity out of the SDV channels around here. STOHD is watched almost religiously during every indians game, USAHD has a buttload of shows recorded, Discovery as well now that a number of shows have come back into fresh airings, Palladia always has it's 3AM-6AM 'HD Videos' slot recorded every morning, and my brother has a few toons on Disney on a series recording new/repeat. Except for very small glitches which would show on any other channel, I have had 0 issues with SDV since it was given to us here. Nor have I had issues with this HDC box or anything else.


Maybe I'm just getting some special treatment from TWC that I don't know about?


----------



## hookbill

I'm not ready to get up yet but I can tell you that we still do not have SDV. I am getting MLB RXTRA INNINGS and I still have nothing but zeros on the SDV CAROUSEL.


Nio sign of the new channels on TIVO. STO is coming in.. I will check 4250. Later.


----------



## hookbill

OK, as far as the information on the screen shot that we received, my SDV page also shows active but what we need to see to find out if it is truly active is the SDV Carousel. That shows if any activity is on. Other then that, the true status is simply "ready".


No signs of SDV on the 4250, no sign of any new HD channels, either by inputting directly or on the guide.


We simply don't have it yet.










And yes, I'm upset because I want the channels but not at the price of getting them but not receiving them and screwing up everything else in the process.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16428008
> 
> 
> having same problem with animal planet and a couple others..freezing..havent had any problems what so ever before these channels just arrived..well see what happens... anybody else just have a black screen with audio on mlb and tlc



New posters when you check in with us kindly let us know what area you are calling from, that's pretty vital information at this point.










I myself live in Bainbridge and my service comes out of the Concord head end.


----------



## ErieMarty

up and running in Erie Pa this morning.


----------



## Inundated

My turn to report in: I'm getting all the new HD channels with not a single glitch I can see tuning around. Particularly welcome here are MLBHD and ESPNNews HD. They look great.


CNBC HD is indeed up there high (486) but is working fine, though I didn't stay around long...they're in infomercials on Saturday mornings, in glorious SD.










Of course, I established long ago that SDV was active here. I'm in western Summit County being fed out of the Bath headend. As far as I know, that services Bath/Richfield/Copley/former Northampton Twp. and nearby areas.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16428008
> 
> 
> having same problem with animal planet and a couple others..freezing..havent had any problems what so ever before these channels just arrived..well see what happens... anybody else just have a black screen with audio on mlb and tlc



This sounds exactly like the problems I saw when they first took the Bath headend into SDV a few weeks ago. Those problems lasted a week or two, then eventually cleared up, and all is fine now.


BTW, where are you in the ex-Adelphia system? Everyone who reports the channel additions here, please tell us what area you're in, and if you're ex-Adelphia, ex-Comcast or legacy TWC...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16428333
> 
> 
> New posters when you check in with us kindly let us know what area you are calling from, that's pretty vital information at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I myself live in Bainbridge and my service comes out of the Concord head end.



Odd that you live nowhere near nickdawg, but you're both not seeing the channels, and folks from Westlake to Erie are getting them.










It's almost like TWC has a list... heh!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16428860
> 
> 
> Odd that you live nowhere near nickdawg, but you're both not seeing the channels, and folks from Westlake to Erie are getting them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's almost like TWC has a list... heh!



So you're suggesting nickdawg and I are on TW's s**t list?










I wouldn't be surprised. Nickdawg is getting the channels, he just can't see them










I fired off an email asking for an explanation last night. My request was "escalated."


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16428876
> 
> 
> I fired off an email asking for an explanation last night. My request was "escalated."



Hopefully, we'll find out more, soon. Even if you and nickdawg are in the "fix these last" list.

















I was on the "add this first" list. TWC must like me. Maybe if nickdawg drops the "Crime Warner Cable" line, his HD channels will start working!!!


Heh heh.


----------



## RonOhio

Getting the new HD channels in Akron as well with TiVo.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently I am suppose to be getting the new channels, so I don't know whats up with that. A tech is scheduled to come out today, yes today, between 4 and 6 pm.


Having done all of that I will now try my contact at TW and see if she can't fix it for me, if there is anything to be fixed.


----------



## hookbill

Ohio Media Watch is reporting the channels are available. Everyone in the area has them but hook!!!!

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/0...t-hd-wave.html 


None of my neighbors are cable people so I can't ask them.


----------



## Inundated

hookbill, you mentioned above...did they tell you that you were supposed to have them?


Let us know how the tech visit goes.







Are they coming on the way from nickdawg's place??


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16429139
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch is reporting the channels are available. Everyone in the area has them but hook!!!!



Quoting that link:



> Quote:
> OMW hears that though the new HD channels are indeed rolling out, some TWC Northeast Ohio subscribers may not have them yet.
> 
> 
> We're told that the launch is indeed, as we've already speculated on our own, linked to the rollout of Switched Digital Video (SDV) throughout Time Warner Cable's local system...and when your local headend does implement SDV, the new channels will be seen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16429164
> 
> 
> Quoting that link:



That explains it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16429154
> 
> 
> hookbill, you mentioned above...did they tell you that you were supposed to have them?
> 
> 
> Let us know how the tech visit goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they coming on the way from nickdawg's place??



Well, I got a call in now about my modem going out 3 or 4 times a day now. Waiting for a call back on that, should get that soon. Then I'll try to talk to them about SDV, Lord, who knows how that will go.


In addition, I put in a call with my contact at head end. But it's the SDV thing, I had a feeling that was why I wasn't getting them. Bummer.


----------



## hookbill

Are so untrained it's pathetic. I called to get an appointment for my internet because my modem keeps crashing and she says she see's I have an appointment for my television. I say yes but I don't have SDV yet so that's why I'm not getting the channels.


Dead silence. She has no idea of what I'm talking about. Finally she says, well he's coming out anyway so he can look at your modem too.


Huh, I thought they had internet techs and cable tv techs. Now 1 tech does all?


Then after I told her I already have digital phone service she still tried to sell me TW's.


So I'm keeping my appointment. This should be interesting. I will let you guys know how it goes.


If the internet is working that is.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16429295
> 
> 
> So I'm keeping my appointment. This should be interesting. I will let you guys know how it goes.
> 
> 
> If the internet is working that is.



Bad news, hook...you can only have one at a time. If they fix SDV, you'll lose the Internet!



















(Relax. I'm pretty sure that's just a joke...)


----------



## lewis1982

hookbill i am in sharon pa area, also mlb and tlc are active with no black screen anymore. I will test them out some more and see if the problems are gone today



update: still some problems on animal and now bravo was freezing up also..hopefully the problems go away as they did for you inundated


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16429370
> 
> 
> Bad news, hook...you can only have one at a time. If they fix SDV, you'll lose the Internet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Relax. I'm pretty sure that's just a joke...)



Gotcha....Funny guy.










Reminds me of something that happened on the crackberry forum, very similar.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16429295
> 
> 
> So I'm keeping my appointment. This should be interesting. I will let you guys know how it goes.



Depending on the type of modem you have, you might be able to go to it's diagnostic page and see if it's been rebooting and why. It's often at 192.168.100.1


If it hasn't been flapping and you're not sure what's wrong, make sure you don't have a virus. The Vundo virus has been extremely common lately. You can find a good, free virus scanner at malwarebytes.org


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16429849
> 
> 
> Depending on the type of modem you have, you might be able to go to it's diagnostic page and see if it's been rebooting and why. It's often at 192.168.100.1
> 
> 
> If it hasn't been flapping and you're not sure what's wrong, make sure you don't have a virus. The Vundo virus has been extremely common lately. You can find a good, free virus scanner at malwarebytes.org



I highly doubt it''s malware or a virus. I have virus protection on my PC's (Zone Alarm) and I work off a mac.


I have no idea how to get into the diagnostic page of my modem, even with the address you gave me. Modem is a webstar. I never had a problem with Adelphias Modem.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16429911
> 
> 
> I highly doubt it''s malware or a virus. I have virus protection on my PC's (Zone Alarm) and I work off a mac.



Might be worth an occasional checkup with something like the malwarebytes tool Cathode Kid mentioned. Zone Alarm's not known for being 'thorough'. Strictly speaking, I only trust Avast and Avira to catch the most virii these days out of all the AV vendors. And both are completely free.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16429911
> 
> 
> I have no idea how to get into the diagnostic page of my modem, even with the address you gave me. Modem is a webstar. I never had a problem with Adelphias Modem.



Just pop it into your web browser: http://192.168.100.1/ and you get signal info, logs if anything shows up, your sync-rate, etc..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16429940
> 
> 
> Might be worth an occasional checkup with something like the malwarebytes tool Cathode Kid mentioned. Zone Alarm's not known for being 'thorough'. Strictly speaking, I only trust Avast and Avira to catch the most virii these days out of all the AV vendors. And both are completely free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just pop it into your web browser: http://192.168.100.1/ and you get signal info, logs if anything shows up, your sync-rate, etc..



I have Zone Alarm Security Suite which is recommended and tested at Gibson Research. It has past every test they have, you'd never convince me that Zone Alarm isn't the best security out there.


On my Mac's PC I have McAfee Secuity Suite. One of my PC's is just a back up but it's protected by AVG. It doesn't go anywhere on the internet except to check in with Windows for updates.


I clicked on the link but it would not let me get into the log part of it, said contact your provider, lol, it's like their diagnostic page they don't want you in.


This guy should show up in the next couple of hours. I'll let him worry about it. When I called customer service she did say she was getting an error message, I don't know if they cleaned it up or not but I haven't had a problem since then. That was not too long ago however.


----------



## Vchat20

Gibson's a sensationalist hack. 90% of the garbage on his site is him talking out his ass. His tools are ok (I swear by Spinrite when I have a sketchy drive to deal with and shields up is a quick and easy way to check for open ports if you ignore the OMG PORT 9876 IS OPEN, YOU ARE DOOMED warnings), but his 'research' should be taken with a huge friggin' salt lick.


As for the modem, try going here: http://192.168.100.1/_aslvl.asp and set it to level 2 with the password 'W2402' (subsequent login window use the same pass with the username 'admin') and then try the log tab again. At least check things for yourself before the tech decides to muck with it all.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16430000
> 
> 
> Gibson's a sensationalist hack. 90% of the garbage on his site is him talking out his ass. His tools are ok (I swear by Spinrite when I have a sketchy drive to deal with and shields up is a quick and easy way to check for open ports if you ignore the OMG PORT 9876 IS OPEN, YOU ARE DOOMED warnings), but his 'research' should be taken with a huge friggin' salt lick.
> 
> 
> As for the modem, try going here: http://192.168.100.1/_aslvl.asp and set it to level 2 with the password 'W2402' (subsequent login window use the same pass with the username 'admin') and then try the log tab again. At least check things for yourself before the tech decides to muck with it all.



lol, thanks for the pw this feature "not enabled." So I guess I can't do anything with it.


It will be interesting to see what this tech does. I'll question him on SDV before I let him upstairs. I really think whatever the problem was with the modem may have been cleared up by Customer Service but only time will tell.


If I do let him get near a box it will be the 4250, since that's their equipment. Outside of the modem issue this is pretty much a waste of time as far as I'm concerned. I know now the reason I don't have the channels. If I got the channels on the 4250 and not on the TiVo's that be another issue.


My contact at TW has not called me back, I don't even know if she is working today. She has called in the past on Saturdays.

Thanks for looking out for me.


----------



## hookbill

Well, he came and went. Did nothing about my modem, he is assuming that the girl did a reset. Went through the channel line up and said "Your getting everything your suppose to get." So I walked him and showed him Ohio Media Watch's page and told him that people are reporting in all around me that they have the new channels. I asked flat on out if it was SDV and believe me, he did not know what I was talking about. So I walked him over to my TiVo and showed him the guide. That's when he put it together and said, "yeah your area isn't on the switching system. You won't get those channels." So I asked him if he had any idea when they were going to launch in this area and he said mid June.


I didn't laugh at him.


Anyway that was a nice waste of about 30 minutes for him and me both.


TW to Hook: You listen hear, mister, you will get your HD channels when we get good and ready to give them to you.


----------



## lewis1982

anybody else just getting a black screen on all the new channels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16430526
> 
> 
> anybody else just getting a black screen on all the new channels?



I can only tune to them on my TiVo and my screen is grey. That's because I don't get them at all.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16430512
> 
> 
> Well, he came and went. Did nothing about my modem, he is assuming that the girl did a reset. Went through the channel line up and said "Your getting everything your suppose to get." So I walked him and showed him Ohio Media Watch's page and told him that people are reporting in all around me that they have the new channels. I asked flat on out if it was SDV and believe me, he did not know what I was talking about. So I walked him over to my TiVo and showed him the guide. That's when he put it together and said, "yeah your area isn't on the switching system. You won't get those channels." So I asked him if he had any idea when they were going to launch in this area and he said mid June.
> 
> 
> I didn't laugh at him.
> 
> 
> Anyway that was a nice waste of about 30 minutes for him and me both.
> 
> 
> TW to Hook: You listen hear, mister, you will get your HD channels when we get good and ready to give them to you.



I hate to say this Hook, but I noticed something on TWC's Programming Notice page:


On or after May 26, 2009, *the following services will be added to standard HD in some areas:* Golf Channel, CNN, FX, Fox News Network, Science Channel


On or after May 26, 2009, *the following services will be added to HD in some areas for customers with the Digital Basic Tier:* National Geographic.


On or after May 27, 2009 the following services will be added to HD Tier in *some areas:* Smithsonian & Mav TV.


On or after June 15, 2009, *the following services will be added to standard HD in some areas:* Lifetime Moves, Travel, AMC.


On or after June 15, 2009, *the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier in some areas:* Versus, Speed and ESPNU.


On or after June 15, 2009, t*he following services will be added to HD for customers with MLB Extra Innings Package in some areas:* Game HD.


They say right there, "in some areas". I guess that is an ass cover for situations like this. "Some areas" will be getting the new channels. Sorry hook.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16430526
> 
> 
> anybody else just getting a black screen on all the new channels?



I am. All I have on all of them is sound. Black screen all the time and sound that cuts out occasionally.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16430569
> 
> 
> I hate to say this Hook, but I noticed something on TWC's Programming Notice page:
> 
> 
> On or after May 26, 2009, *the following services will be added to standard HD in some areas:* Golf Channel, CNN, FX, Fox News Network, Science Channel
> 
> 
> On or after May 26, 2009, *the following services will be added to HD in some areas for customers with the Digital Basic Tier:* National Geographic.
> 
> 
> On or after May 27, 2009 the following services will be added to HD Tier in *some areas:* Smithsonian & Mav TV.
> 
> 
> On or after June 15, 2009, *the following services will be added to standard HD in some areas:* Lifetime Moves, Travel, AMC.
> 
> 
> On or after June 15, 2009, *the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier in some areas:* Versus, Speed and ESPNU.
> 
> 
> On or after June 15, 2009, t*he following services will be added to HD for customers with MLB Extra Innings Package in some areas:* Game HD.
> 
> 
> They say right there, "in some areas". I guess that is an ass cover for situations like this. "Some areas" will be getting the new channels. Sorry hook.



True, but that's not what Mr. Jassoe told OMW. But hey, it's in writing so too bad, so sad.


I'd rather not be getting them at all then just the sound only.

















Hey the guy told me "when they first released that stuff (SDV) it caused all kinds of problems so I don't think they want to release it until they worked it out." Fine, seeing as some people are having problems and some arn't I'll wait. He said they just covered that in a meeting last week. Basically everybody on the Concord head end isn't getting it if you want to believe what he told me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16430590
> 
> 
> True, but that's not what Mr. Jassoe told OMW. But hey, it's in writing so too bad, so sad.
> 
> 
> I'd rather not be getting them at all then just the sound only.



Sure.











> Quote:
> Hey the guy told me "when they first released that stuff (SDV) it caused all kinds of problems so I don't think they want to release it until they worked it out." Fine, seeing as some people are having problems and some arn't I'll wait. He said they just covered that in a meeting last week. Basically everybody on the Concord head end isn't getting it if you want to believe what he told me.



I think the TWC person might be right(for once). This SDV thing has been nothing but a mess ever since it began.


----------



## nickdawg

So. do you think I should start calling TWC or should I just ignore this 'problem' like the last batch of channels??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16430635
> 
> 
> So. do you think I should start calling TWC or should I just ignore this 'problem' like the last batch of channels??



If I were you I wouldn't be in this situation. I'd of fired off that email over a month ago to Steve Fry about the bull pucky you've had to deal with.


Hell yes, call somebody. You're suppose to get those channels.


----------



## Vchat20

Like I have said from the beginning: Gather up all your info on the situation, keep calling and bugging them and try to escalate the issue. Same goes for anyone else with the issue especially if it is in the same area. Get the issue on their radar already.


----------



## nickdawg

Hey Hook, I was watching a show on Animal Planet(analog of course







) and there was a dancing bird!! And a water skiing squirrel!!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16429911
> 
> 
> I have no idea how to get into the diagnostic page of my modem, even with the address you gave me. Modem is a webstar. I never had a problem with Adelphias Modem.



You can type that IP address right into the url bar of your browser as if it was a website name. In other words, http://192.168.100.1


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16431048
> 
> 
> You can type that IP address right into the url bar of your browser as if it was a website name. In other words, http://192.168.100.1



Thanks Vchat stepped me through it. Diagnostics were not available even with a password.


----------



## infoman1

Leave it to TW to implement something that doesn't work. And when it does, the picture freezes and moter boats. Signal level and S/N is excellent. If this is what I am to expect, I can see people flocking to Direct TV by the droves. What they should do is give every customer a digital box and get rid of the analog multi cast channels and free up some bandwidth. Currently this service is unacceptable.


----------



## nickdawg

At least we're not missing anything with these channels. The two that suck the most are CNBC and ESPN News. CNBC had nothing but infomercials and Suzzy Orman---in SD. ESPN News is a total waste, it's a glorified barker channel. They could show that at 480i widescreen and it would not make a difference. What a waste of HD. You think they could have given us a REAL sports channel that shows sports in HD, like ESPNU or Speed HD. Not some fantasy football person's wet dream of statistics! I'll bet CNBC is equally pointless when I see what they have Monday.


And MLB gets a LAME tonight. They're showing the same game as FSN "HD" in primetime. The same game is listed on THREE channels in a row!! So much for more HD(at least tonight).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16431262
> 
> 
> At least we're not missing anything with these channels. The two that suck the most are CNBC and ESPN News. CNBC had nothing but infomercials and Suzzy Orman---in SD. ESPN News is a total waste, it's a glorified barker channel. They could show that at 480i widescreen and it would not make a difference. What a waste of HD. You think they could have given us a REAL sports channel that shows sports in HD, like ESPNU or Speed HD. Not some fantasy football person's wet dream of statistics! I'll bet CNBC is equally pointless when I see what they have Monday.
> 
> 
> And MLB gets a LAME tonight. They're showing the same game as FSN "HD" in primetime. The same game is listed on THREE channels in a row!! So much for more HD(at least tonight).



MLBnet always shows stuff that's on other networks, I'm not surprised its on FSNHD. By the way how are you feeling about SDV these days?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16431317
> 
> 
> MLBnet always shows stuff that's on other networks, I'm not surprised its on FSNHD. By the way how are you feeling about SDV these days?



I was hoping for a different game, like an Extra Innings thing, but on one channel.


I hate it. I'd rather have 10 HD channels that work than all of this trash that doesn't work.


I don't hate SDV as much as you will once it starts in your area and they put MLB Extra Innings channels on SDV!!! You $100+ pay channels becoming a victim of SDV. We'll hear the screaming across town.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16431373
> 
> 
> I was hoping for a different game, like an Extra Innings thing, but on one channel.
> 
> 
> I hate it. I'd rather have 10 HD channels that work than all of this trash that doesn't work.
> 
> 
> I don't hate SDV as much as you will once it starts in your area and they put MLB Extra Innings channels on SDV!!! You $100+ pay channels becoming a victim of SDV. We'll hear the screaming across town.



I see it going 50/50. I've never had a good feeling about SDV but who knows. I already know there are only a couple that I'm interested in. Time will tell.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16431484
> 
> 
> I see it going 50/50. I've never had a good feeling about SDV but who knows. I already know there are only a couple that I'm interested in. Time will tell.



...and the ones you are interested in will be on SDV!! I want USA, F/X, Universal HD, STO and Discovery. Those are all SDV. I don't give a rats ass about HGTV, A&E, Big Ten, FSN HD, TNT, TBS and those are all non-SDV.


Plus I've heard good things about SDV. Others have said "you can't even tell which channels are SDV". Yeah right!! I can tell by which ones don't work!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16431523
> 
> 
> ...and the ones you are interested in will be on SDV!! I want USA, F/X, Universal HD, STO and Discovery. Those are all SDV. I don't give a rats ass about HGTV, A&E, Big Ten, FSN HD, TNT, TBS and those are all non-SDV.
> 
> 
> Plus I've heard good things about SDV. Others have said "you can't even tell which channels are SDV". Yeah right!! I can tell by which ones don't work!!



You're missing my point. Not everybody is having a problem with SDV including TiVo people. Fact is that more people will come here to complain then those who don't have issues.


There is a good chance I won't have a problem. And there is a chance I won't hence I say time will tell.


----------



## lewis1982

the only ones not working for me are the newly released channels except for espnews..rest are just black...but dont have any problems with the previous ones whatsoever..so nickdawg all of yours dont work? why the hell are you staying with timewarner lol..id be gone


----------



## nickdawg

Also, whatever is wrong with the black screen channels is TWC'S FAULT. I pulled diagnostics, and the new channels with the problems are on 573.000MHz. Other channels like UHD, HD Net, USA are also on 573.000MHz and have no problems at all. Something is wrong with these new channels from the source(TWC).


----------



## nickdawg

I think someone should call Carl Monday or Joe Pack of napkins over at WEWS Channel 5 about this. TWC is ripping off their customers. I know this is not the end, just the beginning, of how TWC will be from now on.


----------



## lewis1982

channels back up..well see for how long lol


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, wow, wow. I haven't watched any of the "new 3/31" channels in about a month. But tonight when I was in the 400s neighborhood, I noticed that USA was working today, so I decided to watch WWE AM RAW and now Becker. The PQ is HORRIBLE!!! HORRIBLE is an understatement. The PQ on this HD channel looks worse than bad 480i digital widescreen. Even watching on the analog version of USA the picture is better. Any of the dark or black areas of the picture look gray and hazy with artifacts in the picture. And forget about fast motion, the picture turns to blurry unwatchable crap in a few seconds. Whenever a wrestler comes out and there's bright lights and strobe lights in the background, it is an incoherent mess.


Even though USA HD has been here for over a month, I've still been watching the analog version. I thought I was missing alot by not seeing RAW in HD. I was wrong. The analog version is far superior.


----------



## lewis1982

i agree it doesnt look good when there coming down to the ring, other than that looks good for me. nothin to complain about..looks better than batista in stretch mode looking even more bigger lol


----------



## lewis1982

channels working good now will see how long it lasts


----------



## hookbill

You guys should be watching TNA wrestling. I like it much better then WWE. I hate Vince McMahn and the extremely vulgar angles he uses and I'm no prude but I don't want to see some guy forced to kiss his @ss. Spike TV and no SDV since we don't get that one in HD anyway.


PQ Quality of USA as far as I can tell is great - Oh, yeah, I DON'T have SDV do I? Geeze, poor me.


----------



## scnrfrq

Is anyone getting MLB HD today? All I'm getting in Erie is a "please wait" and "unavailable". Thanks, TW!


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16433559
> 
> 
> Is anyone getting MLB HD today? All I'm getting in Erie is a "please wait" and "unavailable". Thanks, TW!



Everything looking good in my area (near Kent). Using SA8300HD/Legacy TW area.


----------



## nickdawg

Interesting... My TV is "pretending" to work today. Everything but CNBCHD is coming in OK. And now I'm watching Dirty Jobs on Discovery HD and I'm not seeing the problems I saw on USA HD last night. I'm really hoping that is a signal/TWC issue that will be fixed.


And I"m still calling TWC about my other 'problem'. I want that truck roll that never came to check the signal at the pole. A TWC tech said I had "low signal coming into the house". I still want that fixed!


----------



## nickdawg

What's up with TLC/Discovery/Anizal Planet? Some of the shows and many of the commercials look "blown up". It looks almost stretched with skinny sidebars. What the hell are they, TBS? Why can't they leave the damn picture alone? And is ABC Famil *EVER* going to have one HD show? It's the most useless channel ever. I'd rather have F/X *NOW!!*


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16427191
> 
> 
> I'd reboot TiVo and see what happens.



Well, after reboots of TiVo and Tuning Adapter, the green light on the front wouldn't stop blinking.


Called TW today and after multiple 'hits' to the box, it is finally solid. Old and new channels are now working.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16434824
> 
> 
> Well, after reboots of TiVo and Tuning Adapter, the green light on the front wouldn't stop blinking.
> 
> 
> Called TW today and after multiple 'hits' to the box, it is finally solid. Old and new channels are now working.



Good to hear. Did you have to speak to multiple CSR's or did just one take care of it for you?


In a semi unrelated matter, I'm watching the Dodgers today and the first 20 minutes had pixelation and sound drop offs. It seems to have settled down now.


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16434869
> 
> 
> Good to hear. Did you have to speak to multiple CSR's or did just one take care of it for you?
> 
> 
> In a semi unrelated matter, I'm watching the Dodgers today and the first 20 minutes had pixelation and sound drop offs. It seems to have settled down now.



Well, I first did the online chat thing. The rep sent some hits but that didn't work so it was 'escalated'. Had some conversations through e-mail with another rep as a follow-up to the chat. He then asked me to call in. When I called, they said one of the Cable Card people would call me back "very shortly".


Two hours later, no call. So I decided to call back in. I was then transferred directly to the Cable Card people and after about 10 minutes, we got it working (after a few more hits and specific directions on when to reboot/plug in/etc the tuning adapter).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16434906
> 
> 
> Well, I first did the online chat thing. The rep sent some hits but that didn't work so it was 'escalated'. Had some conversations through e-mail with another rep as a follow-up to the chat. He then asked me to call in. When I called, they said one of the Cable Card people would call me back "very shortly".
> 
> 
> Two hours later, no call. So I decided to call back in. I was then transferred directly to the Cable Card people and after about 10 minutes, we got it working (after a few more hits and specific directions on when to reboot/plug in/etc the tuning adapter).



Thanks for letting me know. I have the cable card hotlines direct number. If it happens to me whenever they launch SDV in my area I may bypass the middle man and call them directly.


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16434957
> 
> 
> Thanks for letting me know. I have the cable card hotlines direct number. If it happens to me whenever they launch SDV in my area I may bypass the middle man and call them directly.



I called that number (330-572-XXXX) yesterday and left a message. Never heard back. Called again today but didn't leave one.


The online chat guy said they must only be open M-F


EDIT: Actually, the number above is the "Tuning Adapter hotline" not the Cable Card hotline. Not sure if they are different. Also, I don't think the person who finally fixed the issue was local. She asked how the weather was in Ohio.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16434869
> 
> 
> Good to hear. Did you have to speak to multiple CSR's or did just one take care of it for you?
> 
> 
> In a semi unrelated matter, I'm watching the Dodgers today and the first 20 minutes had pixelation and sound drop offs. It seems to have settled down now.



What channel were you watching?


Also, I finally had some time to call TWC. Yet another person is coming out on Tuesday. This time a "note" was made that the last person ordered a bucket truck. Of all the things they can do, they *can't* guarantee that a "bucket truck" will come! I asked alot of questions about SDV, and she told me I'd have to ask the tech that comes out. However she did say that they did not get many complaints about the new channels. I'll bet TWC is trying to hide a PR nightmare!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16434972
> 
> 
> I called that number (330-572-XXXX) yesterday and left a message. Never heard back. Called again today but didn't leave one.
> 
> 
> The online chat guy said they must only be open M-F
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually, the number above is the "Tuning Adapter hotline" not the Cable Card hotline. Not sure if they are different. Also, I don't think the person who finally fixed the issue was local. She asked how the weather was in Ohio.



The number for the cable card hotline is 866.532.2598 and they don't like for you to call it but I've done it before and even though they got p.o.'d they still helped me. I personally don't care if they didn't like me calling or not.














And as you can see I'm not afraid to give out the number.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16434996
> 
> 
> What channel were you watching?
> 
> 
> Also, I finally had some time to call TWC. Yet another person is coming out on Tuesday. This time a "note" was made that the last person ordered a bucket truck. Of all the things they can do, they *can't* guarantee that a "bucket truck" will come! I asked alot of questions about SDV, and she told me I'd have to ask the tech that comes out. However she did say that they did not get many complaints about the new channels. I'll bet TWC is trying to hide a PR nightmare!



Channel 753.


Sounds like you're running in circles nickdawg. You need to escalate this thing.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16434972
> 
> 
> I called that number (330-572-XXXX) yesterday and left a message. Never heard back. Called again today but didn't leave one.
> 
> 
> The online chat guy said they must only be open M-F
> 
> 
> EDIT: Actually, the number above is the "Tuning Adapter hotline" not the Cable Card hotline. Not sure if they are different. Also, I don't think the person who finally fixed the issue was local. She asked how the weather was in Ohio.




Quit bogarting the number!!


























> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16435010
> 
> 
> The number for the cable card hotline is 866.532.2598 and they don't like for you to call it but I've done it before and even though they got p.o.'d they still helped me. I personally don't care if they didn't like me calling or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as you can see I'm not afraid to give out the number.



I wonder what would happen if I called that number? Would they screw me even more or finally fix my TV?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16435014
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're running in circles nickdawg. You need to escalate this thing.



How? I already did. I called, I specifically used the words "switch digital video" and even told them the frequency with the problem: 585. I'll have to tell the tech the same thing when they check the signal levels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16435039
> 
> 
> How? I already did. I called, I specifically used the words "switch digital video" and even told them the frequency with the problem: 585. I'll have to tell the tech the same thing when they check the signal levels.


 [email protected] , that's how. And I can't believe knowing you like I do that you actually would think a CSR even knows what SDV is. I asked them about it specifically when I was trying to find out why I wasn't getting the new HD line up and they didn't know what I was talking about, I could tell. They just said, let the tech look at it. WTF, waste my time, the techs time because their own people don't have a clue at what SDV is.


----------



## lewis1982

everything still working great except for cnbchd.. hope it stays this way


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16435160
> 
> 
> everything still working great except for cnbchd.. hope it stays this way



Same here. All of the other channels appear to be working OK, except for the black screen on CNBC.


Of course all the channels are currently on 597.000MHz and 573.000MHz. I'll bet if any of them end up on 585.000MHz they will not work again.


----------



## lewis1982

cnbchd is back up..not that i care tho lol


----------



## hookbill

In Los Angeles TW has a commercial up where they say Direct TV hates puppies. Cracked me up. I saw it during the Dodger game.


I don't know if they are showing it here or not but I don't think they are.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16435311
> 
> 
> cnbchd is back up..not that i care tho lol



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


Wake me up when TWC adds *MSNBCHD*!































CNBCHD is NOT working here!


----------



## lewis1982

it was up for 5 minutes then went black again hahah..no complaints tho happy about the others working


----------



## nickdawg

Tonight I watched In Plain Sight on USA HD for the first time and I was surprised by the PQ. It was decent. Nothing like the horror I saw on the WWE the night before. Of course IPS doesn't have the strobe lights, fast action and fast paced camera shots of the WWE. The improvement I noticed was the darks looked acceptable--dark, not hazy gray.


Apparently its more than just USA. I'm watching Yellowcard on PALHD right now. A live performance = awful PQ. Just the flashing/changing lights alone cause blocking. Add in camera movement and the performers moving and it is worse. Example: a fantastic shot of the drummer in action with flashing lights behind him was totally trashed by this awful picture quality. Very disappointing. Nothing like watching the concerts on HD Net in the pre-SDV days. I think I watched Green Day awhile back, it was fxcking awesome. PALHD, in comparison is crap. BUT....OTOH, I was flipping through the channels today and I came across a Good Charlotte video and it was fantastic! It wasn't a live performance or any fast action camera shots, which was probably why. And as I'm writing this, another one of my favorites comes on, a video by The Used. It looks good too. Pretty much anything without fast camera shots or flashing lights.


Maybe VChat can chime in here as I recall he watches/records this channel. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist, maybe TWC just sucks. But for $105 a month, I want a picture that looks like Yellowcard is about to jump through the TV and have a house party at my place, not like I'm watching them through a window with KY smeared all over it!


----------



## Vchat20

I dunno, doesn't look like any improvement on this end. Maybe a miniscule PQ improvement on USAHD.


PALHD has the problem that, at least on their HD Videos slot, a large number of videos appear to be just the SD versions upscaled and labelled 'HD'.


----------



## Vchat20

Unfortunately with the nature of SDV, it is very hard to do good statmuxing with the channels. But even with 3x HD per QAM that means almost 13mbit evenly split and bursts depending on what bandwidth each channel is using. And for reference while doing captures over firewire, VLC has always shown around 14mbit avg and 15mbit tops for a number of high quality 1080i channels (ie: WKYC or WFMJ primetime). So no idea where that quality is getting lost at. Though I'm not complaining too bad, but it'd be nice to see improved on.


----------



## WilliamR

Former Adelphia customer in NE Ohio. No new channels yet. Haven't had new channels since the addition of Sci-Fi. Rebooted the box numerous times (I use the DVR from time warner). No new channels. This is crazy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16437112
> 
> 
> Former Adelphia customer in NE Ohio. No new channels yet. Haven't had new channels since the addition of Sci-Fi. Rebooted the box numerous times (I use the DVR from time warner). No new channels. This is crazy.



Rebooting your box isn't going to help at this point.


Until just like me you are put on SDV you will not get the new channels. This may happen tomorrow, or it may not happen for a few weeks.


Not very fair, I know but with all the problems some people are having I'd just rather wait. How good is it to get HD channels that don't look good?


I checked this morning myself, nothing new on the SA 4250 still.


----------



## hookbill

Basically she told me that the SDV is not in my area, which I knew. She did however give me an approximate date for when it's going to start. She says the last week of this month for my area.


So if you're running off the Concord head end, that's when you can expect it. She's never been wrong yet. I also had a short discussion with her about the tuner adapters and cable cards and what you guys have told me. She said she'd keep it in mind.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16437112
> 
> 
> Former Adelphia customer in NE Ohio. No new channels yet.



Umm...where in Northeast Ohio?


The former Adelphia territory covers a very wide swath of the region, including a large chunk of Cleveland and its western and southern suburbs, the area west of Akron in Summit County, eastern Medina County, and the former "Western Reserve" area (Macedonia, etc.) that used to be Western Reserve Cablevision.


It even reaches hookbill and his birds out in Bainbridge.










Some of the ex-Adelphia customers have SDV and the new HD channels (like yours truly, out of western Summit County). Some, like hookbill and his flock, don't.


So when you say "Former Adelphia customer in NE Ohio" here, you may as well be saying "on Earth".


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16439297
> 
> 
> Umm...where in Northeast Ohio?
> 
> 
> The former Adelphia territory covers a very wide swath of the region, including a large chunk of Cleveland and its western and southern suburbs, the area west of Akron in Summit County, eastern Medina County, and the former "Western Reserve" area (Macedonia, etc.) that used to be Western Reserve Cablevision.
> 
> 
> It even reaches hookbill and his birds out in Bainbridge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the ex-Adelphia customers have SDV and the new HD channels (like yours truly, out of western Summit County). Some, like hookbill and his flock, don't.
> 
> 
> So when you say "Former Adelphia customer in NE Ohio" here, you may as well be saying "on Earth".



Macedonia


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16438973
> 
> 
> Basically she told me that the SDV is not in my area, which I knew. She did however give me an approximate date for when it's going to start. She says the last week of this month for my area.
> 
> 
> So if you're running off the Concord head end, that's when you can expect it. She's never been wrong yet. I also had a short discussion with her about the tuner adapters and cable cards and what you guys have told me. She said she'd keep it in mind.



Solon appears to have the same lineup as you do, Hook... I wonder if we're off the Concord head end as well?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16439473
> 
> 
> Macedonia



The tech that came out to my house specifically told me Macedonia had not been changed to SDV. I use to be serviced out of that office. We may be on same head end.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16439522
> 
> 
> Solon appears to have the same lineup as you do, Hook... I wonder if we're off the Concord head end as well?



I'm not certain where the headend is. I'm serviced out of Concord. I live 2 miles away from Solo so I'm pretty sure we are on same feed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16438973
> 
> 
> Basically she told me that the SDV is not in my area, which I knew. She did however give me an approximate date for when it's going to start. She says the last week of this month for my area.
> 
> 
> So if you're running off the Concord head end, that's when you can expect it. She's never been wrong yet. I also had a short discussion with her about the tuner adapters and cable cards and what you guys have told me. She said she'd keep it in mind.



I think she's right. The May 25th channels on TWC's website say "the following channels will be added for customers in some areas on or after May 25". That sounds like they're covering their ass for the date(again) or even not having them in all areas. So some people might be seeing channels on May 25 and some will have them later(unfortunately).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16440114
> 
> 
> I think she's right. The May 25th channels on TWC's website say "the following channels will be added for customers in some areas on or after May 25". That sounds like they're covering their ass for the date(again) or even not having them in all areas. So some people might be seeing channels on May 25 and some will have them later(unfortunately).


*On or after May 26, 2009, the following services will be added to standard HD in some areas: Golf Channel, CNN, FX, Fox News Network, Science Channel

On or after May 26, 2009, the following services will be added to HD in some areas for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: National Geographic.

On or after May 27, 2009 the following services will be added to HD Tier in some areas: Smithsonian & Mav TV.*


I don't follow you. Your saying they are going to add the above yet not add the ones they just added?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16436929
> 
> 
> I dunno, doesn't look like any improvement on this end. Maybe a miniscule PQ improvement on USAHD.
> 
> 
> PALHD has the problem that, at least on their HD Videos slot, a large number of videos appear to be just the SD versions upscaled and labelled 'HD'.



All of the problems I was describing were on HD shows. I'm not upset about SD programming(as long as it looks good). I'm really disappointed that TWC would let this happen. A channel that shows live music performances, a channel that shows action movies and wrestling---be prone to blocking from fast action.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16440175
> 
> *On or after May 26, 2009, the following services will be added to standard HD in some areas: Golf Channel, CNN, FX, Fox News Network, Science Channel
> 
> On or after May 26, 2009, the following services will be added to HD in some areas for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: National Geographic.
> 
> On or after May 27, 2009 the following services will be added to HD Tier in some areas: Smithsonian & Mav TV.*
> 
> 
> I don't follow you. Your saying they are going to add the above yet not add the ones they just added?



No, I mean they might not add the old channels or the new channels in all areas when 5/25 comes around. She said "the last week of the month", that could mean Friday or Saturday(since apparently they do work on the weekend now!). My point was they are being very vague and open ended with their answers


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16438973
> 
> 
> So if you're running off the Concord head end, that's when you can expect it. She's never been wrong yet. I also had a short discussion with her about the tuner adapters and cable cards and what you guys have told me. She said she'd keep it in mind.



If nellie the neuron is right, you're fed from an area further south like Bainbridge.


----------



## Vchat20

Another possible way to determine which headend you're on, though I can't 100% guarantee it is accurate but technically should be, is if you have roadrunner to go and find a site that does remote traceroutes to you and look at the final hop before your IP. That, generally, should give you an idea what headend you are on unless TW has their DNS naming fubar'd.

Code:


Code:


1  Firewall (192.245.12.78)  6.835 ms  5.859 ms  5.859 ms
 2  Opus-GW (207.182.35.49)  5.859 ms  5.859 ms  4.882 ms
 3  Opus-Login-T3 (204.17.35.105)  4.882 ms  4.882 ms  4.882 ms
 4  so0-1-0.jr2.phx2.llnw.net (69.28.139.201)  14.647 ms  14.647 ms  14.647 ms
 5  ge3-2.fr3.phx2.llnw.net (69.28.171.221)  14.647 ms  26.365 ms  26.365 ms
 6  tge9-4.fr4.dal.llnw.net (69.28.172.90)  43.943 ms  43.943 ms  43.943 ms
 7  ve5.fr3.dal.llnw.net (69.28.171.105)  43.943 ms  65.426 ms  65.426 ms
 8  tge5-3.fr3.ord.llnw.net (69.28.171.198)  65.426 ms * *
 9  ae-1-0.cr0.chi30.tbone.rr.com (66.109.6.154)  66.402 ms  66.402 ms *
10  * * *
11  ae15.mtgmoh1-rtr0.mwrtn.rr.com (66.109.6.69)  76.167 ms  84.956 ms  84.956 ms
12  tge2-0-0.ncntoh1-rtr1.neo.rr.com (65.25.137.194)  83.979 ms  83.979 ms  83.979 ms
13  srp1-1.warnoh1-ybr2.neo.rr.com (24.164.101.6)  84.955 ms  85.932 ms  85.932 ms
14  gig0-3.warnoh1-ubr4.neo.rr.com (24.164.102.70)  85.932 ms  88.861 ms *
15  cpe-174-100-35-77.neo.res.rr.com (174.100.35.77)  98.627 ms * *


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16441582
> 
> 
> If nellie the neuron is right, you're fed from an area further south like Bainbridge.



I corrected myself a post or so up that I was serviced out of Concord. Its nice to know since I live in Bainbridge that's where the feed comes from.


You,sir are very well informed indeed. So is Macedonia on the same feed?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16441636
> 
> 
> I corrected myself a post or so up that I was serviced out of Concord. Its nice to know since I live in Bainbridge that's where the feed comes from.
> 
> 
> You,sir are very well informed indeed. So is Macedonia on the same feed?



Macedonia is the Western Reserve area and it has it's own hub. I have a relative that lives off that feed.


----------



## nickdawg

Just as suspected, RAW looked hideous tonight. Any pyrotechnics, lights, etc were a mess. When John Cena came out, it was a mess. The worst I saw was when the Miz came out, even the on screen graphics were blurry from the flashing lights. The Miz was an amorphous blob in a series of squares.


The million dollar question: with the TWC guy coming, should I tell him I thin the picture looks like s--t? I still have the show saved on the tivo. Should I say anything, or just worry about getting my other problem fixed?


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16439535
> 
> 
> The tech that came out to my house specifically told me Macedonia had not been changed to SDV. I use to be serviced out of that office. We may be on same head end.



I got the last round of HD updates (i.e. Sci-Fi) are you saying that this round I cannot get because of this SDV thing, even though I got the last update?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16443992
> 
> 
> I got the last round of HD updates (i.e. Sci-Fi) are you saying that this round I cannot get because of this SDV thing, even though I got the last update?



Yes. We all got that round of HD. It was the one launched on Friday & Saturday last weekend that we didn't get.


It would seem that you are on a different feed then I am from what Cathode Kid indicates. However that doesn't mean you have SDV, if you did you should be receiving the channels.


What kind of box do you have? If you tell us that we can guide you to your diagnostic screen and have you take a look at your SDV Carousel. If you have numbers there, you do have SDV but you're still not getting the channels.


It may perhaps be in some areas even if you do have SDV you won't get those HD channels, though I rather doubt that. Let us know what equipment you have and we will help you. Also if possible give us a picture of your guide then we can tell if you have Navigator or SARA. I think you have SARA just from your location.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16443992
> 
> 
> I got the last round of HD updates (i.e. Sci-Fi) are you saying that this round I cannot get because of this SDV thing, even though I got the last update?



That seems to be the consensus....


----------



## BudgetPlan1

NE Ohio, Lake County, mentor area = no new channels...fuggers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/16444160
> 
> 
> NE Ohio, Lake County, mentor area = no new channles...fuggers.



No SDV in Mentor either. Hence no channels. Maybe at end of the month.


----------



## scnrfrq

Is anyone seeing hesitations and pauses that last a few seconds in both your live channel viewing and DVR recordings? This seems to have started after the new channels were added.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16444192
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing hesitations and pauses that last a few seconds in both your live channel viewing and DVR recordings? This seems to have started after the new channels were added.



God, it sounds like SDV is really a pos. I'll have to see it with my own eyes before I admit nickdawgs right. Vchat20 says he doesn't have problems.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16443526
> 
> 
> Just as suspected, RAW looked hideous tonight. Any pyrotechnics, lights, etc were a mess. When John Cena came out, it was a mess. The worst I saw was when the Miz came out, even the on screen graphics were blurry from the flashing lights. The Miz was an amorphous blob in a series of squares.
> 
> 
> The million dollar question: with the TWC guy coming, should I tell him I thin the picture looks like s--t? I still have the show saved on the tivo. Should I say anything, or just worry about getting my other problem fixed?



it's entirely possible it was already breaking up on the feed off the bird as well. getting re-encoded just enhanced it



heck I've seen microwave feeds break up on pyros. it's just data overload


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16444192
> 
> 
> Is anyone seeing hesitations and pauses that last a few seconds in both your live channel viewing and DVR recordings? This seems to have started after the new channels were added.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16444246
> 
> 
> God, it sounds like SDV is really a pos. I'll have to see it with my own eyes before I admit nickdawgs right. Vchat20 says he doesn't have problems.



I've noticed that tuning SDV channels is a bit slow. There's a few second delay(if they come on). I have seen a few brief frozen images on SDV channels. Never seen that on regular channels. Never seen it on DVR recordings. But I have had a recording crap out after 15 minutes, on a SDV channel.


What guide/box software do you have? Navigator? SARA? That information will help.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16445133
> 
> 
> I've noticed that tuning SDV channels is a bit slow. There's a few second delay(if they come on). I have seen a few brief frozen images on SDV channels. Never seen that on regular channels. Never seen it on DVR recordings. But I have had a recording crap out after 15 minutes, on a SDV channel.
> 
> 
> What guide/box software do you have? Navigator? SARA? That information will help.



I'm on Navigator MDN. I had never seen it on DVR recordings either. Makes me worry my Apricorn drive is going, although it's only 6 months old.


----------



## hookbill

Ohio Media Watch tweeted that they are on the verge of breaking a story. I'll bet it has to do with TW and SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16445163
> 
> 
> I'm on Navigator MDN. I had never seen it on DVR recordings either. Makes me worry my Apricorn drive is going, although it's only 6 months old.



My guess might be that it is the box. Since you said MDN, that means you have an older box. Mine was acting funny like that before it "died". It missed lots of recordings for unusual reasons. This thread has just about everything you'd want to know about Navigator!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...23830&page=267


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16445171
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch tweeted that they are on the verge of breaking a story. I'll bet it has to do with TW and SDV.



I didn't know OMW was a bird!! How many do you have now!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16445353
> 
> 
> I didn't know OMW was a bird!! How many do you have now!!



You're just sooooooo funny!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16444529
> 
> 
> it's entirely possible it was already breaking up on the feed off the bird as well. getting re-encoded just enhanced it
> 
> 
> 
> heck I've seen microwave feeds break up on pyros. it's just data overload



I have to agree with this assumption completely. Especially if it involves what kind of massive amounts of motion, special effects, and quick chroma/luma changes that I'd expect during those events. Digital is always going to have a problem with it, period. Even with a good datarate given to it, the encoders probably cannot handle it.


Data overload indeed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16446144
> 
> 
> I have to agree with this assumption completely. Especially if it involves what kind of massive amounts of motion, special effects, and quick chroma/luma changes that I'd expect during those events. Digital is always going to have a problem with it, period. Even with a good datarate given to it, the encoders probably cannot handle it.
> 
> 
> Data overload indeed.



It's still SDV's fault. I watch the NBA on TNT(only time I ever watch that crap channel) and it looks nowhere near as bad as USA HD looks. USAHD, PALHD are some of the worst looking channels---and they are SDV.


----------



## lewis1982

Timewarner changed up there progamming notices if anybodys interested..mostly saying the new channels will be added area to area, meaning sdv to no sdv haha


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16449113
> 
> 
> Timewarner changed up there progamming notices if anybodys interested..mostly saying the new channels will be added area to area, meaning sdv to no sdv haha



For those of us not in front of their Mac, link please.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16449167
> 
> 
> For those of us not in front of their Mac, link please.




sorry http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ngnotices.html 


nothing really new they just changed up the notices by saying community to community


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16449212
> 
> 
> sorry http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ngnotices.html
> 
> 
> nothing really new they just changed up the notices by saying community to community



Thank you. Looks like a classic case of C.Y.A.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16449113
> 
> 
> Timewarner changed up there progamming notices if anybodys interested..mostly saying the new channels will be added area to area, meaning sdv to no sdv haha



What about people who are lucky enough to be FAR away from Cesspool, err I mean Cleveland? I take that to mean everything else will be going on schedule and only Cleveland suburbs/area will be subject to the "new rules".



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16449167
> 
> 
> For those of us not in front of their Mac, link please.










(sigh)


----------



## lewis1982




nickdawg said:


> What about people who are lucky enough to be FAR away from Cesspool, err I mean Cleveland? I take that to mean everything else will be going on schedule and only Cleveland suburbs/area will be subject to the "new rules".
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure its just for people without sdv, and us with sdv will get them on schedule.


----------



## nickdawg




lewis1982 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16449645
> 
> 
> What about people who are lucky enough to be FAR away from Cesspool, err I mean Cleveland? I take that to mean everything else will be going on schedule and only Cleveland suburbs/area will be subject to the "new rules".
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure its just for people without sdv, and us with sdv will get them on schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is really weird, I hope OMW has something about it tomorrow. It sounds like they have three situations: those of us with SDV(getting channels on schedule), people without SDV(may not be getting channels until June) and other areas around Cleveland where SDV channels started showing up randomly last Friday.
> 
> 
> All I do know is they are a fraking mess. The tech that came today did nothing, because there was nothing to do. He said the problems I was having are due to problems in my area with the new channels. The signal levels on the box and even at the pole are fine. It's somewhere up the line and "they're working on it"---which means it could be in 24 hours(as he said) or it could be the second Tuesday after hell freezes over.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vchat20

I know I'm probably playing devils advocate here, but it's funny. We've been bitching about TWC to get off their rears and add more HD channels and now that they are working on it within the limits they have, they have even more complaints than they had before because they are scrambling trying to work out the unforseen bugs.


Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


Ya know nickdawg, you've always praised the SD channels before TWC added these HD channels now. What's up this time?


----------



## hookbill

I don consider my home part of cleveland. I'm right in the center distance wise between Akron and cleveland. Bainbridge is a very rural community.


And I agree it has nothing to do with how close you are to Cleveland. Its just that they stuck some people with SDV


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16449947
> 
> 
> I know I'm probably playing devils advocate here, but it's funny. We've been bitching about TWC to get off their rears and add more HD channels and now that they are working on it within the limits they have, they have even more complaints than they had before because they are scrambling trying to work out the unforseen bugs.
> 
> 
> Damned if they do, damned if they don't.



This is a "grass is greener" case. I actually think we were better off when we didn't have the channels. At least then it was "Oh well, we don't have it". Now we have it and it doesn't work. Or Some people have it and some do not. I have no doubt this is because of stupidity and hastiness, not 'unforseen bugs'. It's not like this is the first ever market to get SDV.



> Quote:
> Ya know nickdawg, you've always praised the SD channels before TWC added these HD channels now. What's up this time?



SDTV or S D V?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16449971
> 
> 
> I don consider my home part of cleveland. I'm right in the center distance wise between Akron and cleveland. Bainbridge is a very rural community.
> 
> 
> And I agree it has nothing to do with how close you are to Cleveland. Its just that they stuck some people with SDV



Neither would I!!! Cleveland is a stinky pit! Watch and Enjoy!!


[TUBE]oZzgAjjuqZM&[/TUBE]







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM&


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg you flip more then a politician. Anything you say I take with a grain of salt.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16449984
> 
> 
> I have no doubt this is because of stupidity and hastiness, not 'unforseen bugs'. It's not like this is the first ever market to get SDV.



What do you call people bitching and threatening to leave because they weren't quick on the buzzer to get more HD channels added? And we have went through the whole argument therein long ago. They have too many people to please and SDV was the only option for new HD programming while keeping everyone else happy.


You have to realize these problems are headend specific here and not an issue with SDV as a technology. You HAVE to keep on the techs and CSRs and everyone at TW to get them to realize the nature of the problem so they can fix the root of it rather than throwing around blame. I have been saying this for a while.


----------



## nickdawg

As I predicted, ECW on SCIFI suffers from the same shortcomings as RAW on USAHD. I will concede that source encoding is a bit, a bit of the cause of the blocking(since I saw on another topic that no source is immune from it). However, it also depends on how TWC is encoding it. I'll bet even with SDV TWC is still bandwidth cramming their channels.


But in light of recent events, I think it should be considered a "WIN" that TWC's encoding produces a non-broken up picture and sound on our screens.

















I guess *GOOD HD*, ie "feeling like you are there during a live event" is just a myth.







:bigfrown:


----------



## nickdawg

Hey TWC: I want to see WGN-HD in the next batch of HD channels so I can also see WWE Superstars in HD on Thursdays. It's almost perfect now: USAHD on Mondays, SCIFIHD on Tuesdays and WBNXHD on Friday nights!


----------



## lewis1982

only complaints i have are with the premiums..just watching the hulk and its so pixelated in the fast moving scenes..bunch of other movies also..anybody else with this problem?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16450529
> 
> 
> only complaints i have are with the premiums..just watching the hulk and its so pixelated in the fast moving scenes..bunch of other movies also..anybody else with this problem?



Which channel? I have HBO and it usually looks OK. After about 2 1/2 years of HD service with TWC, I've come to accept some of the "imperfections", but I cannot get over how awful USA and SCIFI look. And PALHD. I recorded Yellowcard (was on tonight at midnight) and I'll have to look at that one to see how live performances look.


----------



## lewis1982

i think hulk was on max..but i notice it on the other premiums also..whenever theres action its pixelated..i guess they compress them??? i also remember watching transformers and it was so bad i had to turn it off. cant remember which channel that was on


also when i order an hd movie on demand its flawless


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16444030
> 
> 
> Yes. We all got that round of HD. It was the one launched on Friday & Saturday last weekend that we didn't get.
> 
> 
> It would seem that you are on a different feed then I am from what Cathode Kid indicates. However that doesn't mean you have SDV, if you did you should be receiving the channels.
> 
> 
> What kind of box do you have? If you tell us that we can guide you to your diagnostic screen and have you take a look at your SDV Carousel. If you have numbers there, you do have SDV but you're still not getting the channels.
> 
> 
> It may perhaps be in some areas even if you do have SDV you won't get those HD channels, though I rather doubt that. Let us know what equipment you have and we will help you. Also if possible give us a picture of your guide then we can tell if you have Navigator or SARA. I think you have SARA just from your location.



I have the default HD DVR box from Time Warner, they gave it to me. It is the Scientific Atlantic Explorer.


----------



## scnrfrq

Help! I think my 8300HD running Navigator MDN is self-destructing. Several times when I checked the DVR in the morning it has been recording by itself all nite long and is still recording. Nothing shows up on the list as being recorded, but my used disk space has gone up 8% overnight (with a 1TB external drive). Also, it has missed recording most of the shows it should have the night before. The recording log says "Unable to record". If I reboot it stops recording, and the used space returns to being 8% less. But I've still lost the shows it was supposed to record. I'm also getting some hesitations and short freezes both with live TV and recordings.


I would just exchange the box, but I've got shows on it and my external drive from 4/5 on. I'm not sure I can still get another HD box, and if I get an HDC box my external drive will no longer work. Meanwhile, my other 8300 HD box is working fine.


Any suggestions on what's going on, and if I can get this box to work for awhile longer?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/16451038
> 
> 
> Help! I think my 8300HD running Navigator MDN is self-destructing. Several times when I checked the DVR in the morning it has been recording by itself all nite long and is still recording. Nothing shows up on the list as being recorded, but my used disk space has gone up 8% overnight (with a 1TB external drive). A*lso, it has missed recording most of the shows it should have the night before. The recording log says "Unable to record".* If I reboot it stops recording, and the used space returns to being 8% less. But I've still lost the shows it was supposed to record. I'm also getting some hesitations and short freezes both with live TV and recordings.
> 
> 
> I would just exchange the box, but I've got shows on it and my external drive from 4/5 on. I'm not sure I can still get another HD box, and if I get an HDC box my external drive will no longer work. Meanwhile, my other 8300 HD box is working fine.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions on what's going on, and if I can get this box to work for awhile longer?



First you should be aware that if your eSATA has a larger hard drive then your DVR by default it records to the larger drive. So you may have programs beyond the date you suspect.


Second, this is the problem with these piece of garbage DVR's. Mine would misss recordings or do partials.


What can you do? Well, what I did was I either recorded to a VCR or DVD everything I had and then returned the box. And doing that you still got to be careful. These DVR's have a known tendency to stop recording the sound track you are recording and start recording the "live" show that is coming in. So I suggest if you do record do not change channels, just leave it on the recorded program with muted sound so it doesn't spoil it for you.


You can try another DVR at that point but I suspect that the problem is being caused by the relationship of the eSATA and DVR. That increased my problems with recordings.


Try that first however and if that lets you down again, consider purchasing another DVR. It's well worth the money.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16450861
> 
> 
> I have the default HD DVR box from Time Warner, they gave it to me. It is the Scientific Atlantic Explorer.



Tune your television to a known SDV channel like STO. Press and hold the select button until you see a little flashing email symbol on the display. When you see that press the info button and your television will show you the diagnostic screen.


Using the plus and minus key just to the right on your remote from the center, navigate until you see "SDV Carousel." If you see nothing but zeros there, then you do not have SDV. I highly suspect that you don't.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16450492
> 
> 
> Hey TWC: I want to see WGN-HD in the next batch of HD channels so I can also see WWE Superstars in HD on Thursdays. It's almost perfect now: USAHD on Mondays, SCIFIHD on Tuesdays and WBNXHD on Friday nights!



You gotta be kidding me. I didn't know you were such a wrestling fan.


While I watch TNA, I usually use the 30 second skip and tick until it gets to the parts I'm interested in which is with Sting, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Kevin Nash, A J Styles, Kevin Nash. Scott Steiner. I like the new Macho Man black dude they have he cracks me up does a great Randy Savage. Oooohhhh Yeahhhhhh! I really dislike the female wrestlers, bad stupid story lines for them. I think Somoa Joe is a waste of time, no charisma don't know how he ever held the belt.


Jeff Jerrett is over there and now so is Mick Folly. They have some great young wrestlers coming up too.


Of course I have to watch all of this in ANALOG since Spike is not in HD and isn't even mentioned.


----------



## Adam P

So I've been trying to follow this thread but I've been kind of sporadic at best (and it moves pretty quickly). I've been seeing some of the new channels (ESPNews, MLB, etc) in the program guide on my TiVo for a few days now but if I tuned to them it gave me the "Channel is not available" message. I checked those channels on my SA 4250HDC upstairs and it won't even tune to them, and they're not in the guide.


Hooked up the tuning adapter last night and the only difference is that now when I tune to those new channels, instead of getting a grey screen and an unavailable message, I just get the grey screen. I think I'm checking the SDV Carousel correctly on the TiVo and its showing all zeroes, so that would mean no SDV.


The latest post on OMW lists Mayfield Hts as a "no SDV yet" area, and I'm in South Euclid which borders Mayfield Hts, so I'm guessing I'm in the same boat.


Does this sound about par for the course?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16451654
> 
> 
> So I've been trying to follow this thread but I've been kind of sporadic at best (and it moves pretty quickly). I've been seeing some of the new channels (ESPNews, MLB, etc) in the program guide on my TiVo for a few days now but if I tuned to them it gave me the "Channel is not available" message. I checked those channels on my SA 4250HDC upstairs and it won't even tune to them, and they're not in the guide.
> 
> 
> Hooked up the tuning adapter last night and the only difference is that now when I tune to those new channels, instead of getting a grey screen and an unavailable message, I just get the grey screen. I think I'm checking the SDV Carousel correctly on the TiVo and its showing all zeroes, so that would mean no SDV.
> 
> 
> The latest post on OMW lists Mayfield Hts as a "no SDV yet" area, and I'm in South Euclid which borders Mayfield Hts, so I'm guessing I'm in the same boat.
> 
> 
> Does this sound about par for the course?



Yeah sure does.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16451112
> 
> 
> Tune your television to a known SDV channel like STO. Press and hold the select button until you see a little flashing email symbol on the display. When you see that press the info button and your television will show you the diagnostic screen.
> 
> 
> Using the plus and minus key just to the right on your remote from the center, navigate until you see "SDV Carousel." If you see nothing but zeros there, then you do not have SDV. I highly suspect that you don't.



Nothing happens when I hold the select button. I turned it to STOHD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16454458
> 
> 
> Nothing happens when I hold the select button. I turned it to STOHD.



Not the select button on the remote. I'm talking about the select button on the STB. Push it and hold until the email flashes. If that doesn't work then you have different software then I have and nickdawg can step you through it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16454458
> 
> 
> Nothing happens when I hold the select button. I turned it to STOHD.



Look at the front panel of the box. There should be a flashing light on the front panel above the clock where the output format lights and the record lights are. The flashing light looks like an envelope.


Also, if you have an older box(3100, 3250, 8000) look for the word MESSAGE on the front of your box. The green light next to the word MESSAGE should be blinking.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16451144
> 
> 
> You gotta be kidding me. I didn't know you were such a wrestling fan.
> 
> 
> While I watch TNA, I usually use the 30 second skip and tick until it gets to the parts I'm interested in which is with Sting, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Kevin Nash, A J Styles, Kevin Nash. Scott Steiner. I like the new Macho Man black dude they have he cracks me up does a great Randy Savage. Oooohhhh Yeahhhhhh! I really dislike the female wrestlers, bad stupid story lines for them. I think Somoa Joe is a waste of time, no charisma don't know how he ever held the belt.
> 
> 
> Jeff Jerrett is over there and now so is Mick Folly. They have some great young wrestlers coming up too.
> 
> 
> Of course I have to watch all of this in ANALOG since Spike is not in HD and isn't even mentioned.



They talk about the "family viewing hour". For years in my family, Monday Night RAW was "the family viewing hour". Haven't watched it as much lately, I was a casual viewer. But now with HD, this is appointment, must see television.


Yeah, I wish they would add Spike HD too! If they did, I'll bet TNA will also be on my weekly "to watch" list!







Ass whooping and high definition, what can be better than that?































Also, I know who I'd like to see thrown in the ring next time WWE is in town. Mr. Fry and Mr. Jascoe!!! I'd pay money to see those two thrown around like chew toys by Batista and Big Show.


----------



## smoti17

So I've been out of the country for about 10 days (including staying in a hotel where all the in-room channels were delivered digitally...), and why am I not surprised to come back not just to no new HD channels, but an even bigger TWC SDV mess than ever. Still no signs of them even trying to turn on SDV (ex-Adelphia "Cleveland Suburbs 2") here.


Sigh.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16454593
> 
> 
> Look at the front panel of the box. There should be a flashing light on the front panel above the clock where the output format lights and the record lights are. The flashing light looks like an envelope.
> 
> 
> Also, if you have an older box(3100, 3250, 8000) look for the word MESSAGE on the front of your box. The green light next to the word MESSAGE should be blinking.



I gotta feeling he was holding the remote select. I wasn't specific about walking up to the box and doing it. I think he has a regular SA 8300.


----------



## Vchat20

The only diag the older MDN boxes have is with the remote select button so it would still apply.


The newer ODN boxes have two diagnostic interfaces: One for Navigator and one for the Hardware/OCAP system. Navigator's still comes through via the remote but the Hardware diag comes through by using the buttons on the front of the box exclusively (which those methods changed from v2 to v3)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16454814
> 
> 
> The only diag the older MDN boxes have is with the remote select button so it would still apply.
> 
> 
> The newer ODN boxes have two diagnostic interfaces: One for Navigator and one for the Hardware/OCAP system. Navigator's still comes through via the remote but the Hardware diag comes through by using the buttons on the front of the box exclusively (which those methods changed from v2 to v3)



On the newer boxes, the only way to get the Navigator diagnostics is to press Select on the remote then press Arrow Down when the mail sign flashes.


To get the GOOD diagnostics, the AXIOM diagnostics, press and hold INFO and VOL+ on the front of the box. When the blue screen menu appears, scroll down to "Mfr. Diagnostics". The AXIOM diagnostics contain all the hardware info, like QAM statistics that tell you SNR, Frequency and Power levers, corrected bytes, etc.


Speaking of Frequencies, I noticed something last night. I was flipping channels with the AXIOM diagnostics open and all my HD channels are either 597 or 573 MHz. So I tried SD channels. I tuned to G4 on 329. Guess what frequency it was on? Guess!! *585.000MHz*!! The one that never worked. Except now I had a clear watchable picture and sound without a flaw, on 585! I also tried the Shopping channels, some were on 603.000MHz, but one or two were on 585, those worked fine.


Either the guy did something on the pole yesterday while checking signal levels, or the problem was higher up and it was fixed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16454901
> 
> 
> On the newer boxes, the only way to get the Navigator diagnostics is to press Select on the remote then press Arrow Down when the mail sign flashes.
> 
> 
> To get the GOOD diagnostics, the AXIOM diagnostics, press and hold INFO and VOL+ on the front of the box. When the blue screen menu appears, scroll down to "Mfr. Diagnostics". The AXIOM diagnostics contain all the hardware info, like QAM statistics that tell you SNR, Frequency and Power levers, corrected bytes, etc.
> 
> 
> Speaking of Frequencies, I noticed something last night. I was flipping channels with the AXIOM diagnostics open and all my HD channels are either 597 or 573 MHz. So I tried SD channels. I tuned to G4 on 329. Guess what frequency it was on? Guess!! *585.000MHz*!! The one that never worked. Except now I had a clear watchable picture and sound without a flaw, on 585! I also tried the Shopping channels, some were on 603.000MHz, but one or two were on 585, those worked fine.
> 
> 
> Either the guy did something on the pole yesterday while checking signal levels, or the problem was higher up and it was fixed.



It probably was fixed. I don't think they want people to have bad service. They just decided to use your area as a guinea pig. Good choice.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16454946
> 
> 
> It probably was fixed. I don't think they want people to have bad service. They just decided to use your area as a guinea pig. Good choice.



They decided to take their union lunch break in your area. Good choice!


----------



## Vchat20

They could have probably also just swapped around which frequencies held various QAMs too. Who knows. It's not like the days of analog where moving a channel to a different frequency meant a different channel number too. They could move a digital channel all over the place from one day to the next and you'd never know the difference unless you were anal and watched the box diagnostics every day (which may very well be the case with nickdawg).


I doubt the frequency location itself is the direct culprit but perhaps the equipment and muxers that was feeding the SDV channels to that one frequency at the time that was probably mis-configured or otherwise buggy or had some other problems. Just needs someone to fix them.


It's only too bad that no one at TW up high enough in the chain is willing to listen to good technical information from their customers here in order to help fix bugs like this. They'd probably sort them all out in record time if they did.


Unfortunately when you have armchair know-it-all techies who really do not 'know it all', they have to protect themselves.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16455006
> 
> 
> They could have probably also just swapped around which frequencies held various QAMs too. Who knows. It's not like the days of analog where moving a channel to a different frequency meant a different channel number too. They could move a digital channel all over the place from one day to the next and you'd never know the difference unless you were anal and watched the box diagnostics every day (which may very well be the case with nickdawg).



Nope. Only when there is a problem or new channels are added. I've been frequently checking the diagnostics since there have been issues. I've confirmed that the problems are not frequency-related(on this end) as some of the black screen channels share SDV frequencies with working channels.



> Quote:
> I doubt the frequency location itself is the direct culprit but perhaps the equipment and muxers that was feeding the SDV channels to that one frequency at the time that was probably mis-configured or otherwise buggy or had some other problems. Just needs someone to fix them.



That's what I originally thought it was. I was doubtful of all the calls to TWC telling me it is a problem on my TV. About the only thing the guy said that I believed is there are problems with the channels in my area.



> Quote:
> It's only too bad that no one at TW up high enough in the chain is willing to listen to good technical information from their customers here in order to help fix bugs like this. They'd probably sort them all out in record time if they did.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately when you have armchair know-it-all techies who really do not 'know it all', they have to protect themselves.



I mentioned SDV by name when I called Sunday. The woman seemed very dismissive when I asked about problems. I asked if they had lots of complaints about the new channels or problems with them. She promptly replied "no". That's why you never want to say anything about the diagnostic menu to TWC people---they want that to be secret and they are very hostile to people who understand their s--t.


I agree Chat. You think TWC would have a 'plant' here listening. Then I could flame teh crap out of them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16455129
> 
> 
> I mentioned SDV by name when I called Sunday. The woman seemed very dismissive when I asked about problems. I asked if they had lots of complaints about the new channels or problems with them. She promptly replied "no". That's why you never want to say anything about the diagnostic menu to TWC people---they want that to be secret and they are very hostile to people who understand their s--t.



No, No, No. You're giving way, way to much credit to the CSR's.


As I said in a previous post, the CSR's don't know diddly about SDV. They have no idea what it is. That's why she said no. They didn't know what you were talking about when you said "SDV."


Heck nickdawg the friggen tech I had come out didn't really know that much about it, I could tell. If he didn't know that much how the flock do you expect a CSR to know?


I am certain you are right about them being instructed not to talk about other complaints, but that's probably about it. As far as the CSR's they don't know anything.


----------



## Vchat20

Precisely hookbill. The only ones who can really be trusted knowledge-wise are those in higher levels of support that you normally CANNOT get access to. Hook's contact at his local headend is a prime example.


The CSR's and Tech's only know enough to a) hook up equipment and leave, b) take your money, and c) read and follow predefined scripts and give up when a problem wavers outside their scope.


----------



## lewis1982

i just checked stohd sdv diagonistic and i am getting 585 mhz. no problems on my end but im not very knowledgable about what that means..is that good? lol


----------



## nickdawg

I noticed that all of the new HD channels have the little logos next to the channel name/number except for PALHD, SCIFI and Disney. All of the Discovery networks have logos, all the NBCU networks except SCIFI and all the Disney/ABC networks except for Disney HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16455466
> 
> 
> Precisely hookbill. The only ones who can really be trusted knowledge-wise are those in higher levels of support that you normally CANNOT get access to. Hook's contact at his local headend is a prime example.
> 
> 
> The CSR's and Tech's only know enough to a) hook up equipment and leave, b) take your money, and c) read and follow predefined scripts and give up when a problem wavers outside their scope.



You know who's got the best contact and may be smarter then all of us is Cathode Kid. I would love to know who his contact is. He knows a lot more then he is willing to share. That's not meant to be a negative statement its pure jealousy. And he knows way to much technical stuff. I'm willing to bet he at least use to work there. I accused him once of being a TW person but he denies it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16455658
> 
> 
> i just checked stohd sdv diagonistic and i am getting 585 mhz. no problems on my end but im not very knowledgable about what that means..is that good? lol



Yes. It means that things are working as they should, there's no picture breakup/audio dropout.


Now if only they could fix the damn black screen with audio channels.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16455824
> 
> 
> Yes. It means that things are working as they should, there's no picture breakup/audio dropout.
> 
> 
> Now if only they could fix the damn black screen with audio channels.




are you still getting black screen and audio? i havent had it since that horrible day..all has been good since except for gay cnbc


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16456489
> 
> 
> are you still getting black screen and audio? i havent had it since that horrible day..all has been good since except for *gay cnbc*



Never heard of that one. Did TWC add another new channel?







Is Barney Frank the host of one show instead of Jim Cramer?
























My CNBC, BRAVO, ABCFAMILY, ANIZAL PLANET and ESPN NEWS still do not work.

HEEEELLOOOOO!!! TWC!!!


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16457513
> 
> 
> Never heard of that one. Did TWC add another new channel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Barney Frank the host of one show instead of Jim Cramer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My CNBC, BRAVO, ABCFAMILY, ANIZAL PLANET and ESPN NEWS still do not work.
> 
> HEEEELLOOOOO!!! TWC!!!



really? when did those channels go out on you again..thought you said they were working for you a day ago?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16457605
> 
> 
> really? when did those channels go out on you again..thought you said they were working for you a day ago?



A little secret about nickdawg. He will confuse the heck out of you from time to time. Take what he says with a grain a salt, expect the unexpected, and plan on being confused by these type of post frequently.


----------



## Red_Rabbit

Ex-Adelpiha, cleveland Heights Area, woke up this morning and I now have ESPN News, MLB HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Red_Rabbit* /forum/post/16458843
> 
> 
> Ex-Adelpiha, cleveland Heights Area, woke up this morning and I now have ESPN News, MLB HD, TLC HD, Animal Planet HD, Bravo HD, CNBC HD



Thanks for letting us know. Appreciate you putting in your location.


Still no love here in Bainbridge.


----------



## hookbill

Almost as if to rub my face in it todays Dodger game starts with "Dodger baseball is brought to you today in high definition by Crime Warner Cable."


Yeah for everybody else in the country except Hook because I live in a community that gets HD after everybody else.


----------



## shooter21198

Time Warner's Program Notices this month confused me to the fullest


> Quote:
> Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WFXP, WFXP HD, WJET, WJET HD, WTRF, GSN, E!, FSN Pittsburgh, WYFX HD, WTVG, WYTV, WKBN HD, WBNX, WAOH, Lifeskool On Demand, Great American Country, BBC America On Demand, Inspirational Life, NBA TV, ShopNBC, Style, Weather Channel, HD Net, HD Net Movies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after April 29, 2009, the following services will be added to Standard HD on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after April 29, 2009 the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: ESPN News and MLB
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 15th: WIVM will move to position 367 and WVIZ Create will be added to position 365.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 15th, My YTV will move from position 373 to 247.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 15th: WIVN will move to position 367 and WVIZ Create will be added to position 365 and for customers in Dover, New Philly and Newcomerstown, WCMH will be dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 15th, 2009, the following services will be added to digital access: WGTE Create, WGTE Family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 26th, the following services will be added to Standard HD on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Golf, FX, Fox News, CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 26th, the following services will be added to HD for customers with the digital basic tier on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Science Channel, National Geographic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after May 27th, the following services will be added to the HD Plus Tier: Mav TV and Smithsonian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The launch of these HD services in some areas has been postponed. No new date is available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family, Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, AMC, Golf, FX, Fox News, CNN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Digital Basic Tier HD: ESPN News, MLB, National Geographic and Science Channel, Versus, Speed, ESPNU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to Standard HD on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, AMC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Versus, Speed, ESPNU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers subscribing to the MLB Extra Innings or NHL Center Ice packages on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Game HD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16454576
> 
> 
> Not the select button on the remote. I'm talking about the select button on the STB. Push it and hold until the email flashes. If that doesn't work then you have different software then I have and nickdawg can step you through it.



Got it, it was all zeroes. That figures. Oh well.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16458098
> 
> 
> A little secret about nickdawg. He will confuse the heck out of you from time to time. Take what he says with a grain a salt, expect the unexpected, and plan on being confused by these type of post frequently.



No, Hookbill. CNBC, ESPN NEWS, ANIZAL PLANET, BRAVO, ABCFAMILY went out some time yesterday.


As of right now, only BRAVO, MLB and ANIZAL PLANET are black screen with no sound.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16461396
> 
> 
> No, Hookbill. CNBC, ESPN NEWS, ANIZAL PLANET, BRAVO, ABCFAMILY went out some time yesterday.
> 
> 
> As of right now, only BRAVO, MLB and ANIZAL PLANET are black screen with no sound.



We're not psychic nickdawg. How were we to know you had a blackout. Maybe they decided to make you wait until I get those channels.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16461677
> 
> 
> We're not psychic nickdawg. How were we to know you had a blackout. Maybe they decided to make you wait until I get those channels.




mlb and abcfamily are black with just sound for me..thought this was done..oh well


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16462129
> 
> 
> mlb and abcfamily are black with just sound for me..thought this was done..oh well



It's really kind of strange. I can see the whole thing going off but just the picture?


Really sucks that they can't get this stuff together.


----------



## Vchat20

One thing I did notice that was extremely odd was that while capturing clips off a few SDV channels, VLC reported the bitrate as hardly wavering off 150001kb/s even when the motion went from slideshow-like to breakneck action movie speeds. Maybe dropped a little ways down to like 14700kb/s, but not much of a difference.


Reason I say this is odd because it doesn't factor into a QAM's full 38mbit of bandwidth. I could probably understand if the bitrate was actually variable and went anywhere from like 8mbit to 20mbit in a short period, then they could go with their usual 'cram 3 HD channels into a single slot' motto. But with it being stuck at 14.5mbit as it seems, they have a large 9mbit chunk essentially going to waste here. Unless I am missing something else they are using it for? Unless they are putting some SD channels in there too. But in my mind that is still wasting space.


Or maybe I'm just looking too much into it?


----------



## smoti17

I can confirm that here in Shaker Heights, ex-Adelphia, the new SDV channels started coming through today.

Seems to be okay so far.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16462218
> 
> 
> It's really kind of strange. I can see the whole thing going off but just the picture?
> 
> 
> Really sucks that they can't get this stuff together.



When that happens, try flipping the channel and going back to it. I had no picture on Anizal Planet. Changed the channel to WKYC, went back to Anizal and it had picture!


Also I left the TV on ABC Family with no picture for awhile and one time it came on automatically after a few minutes. Weird.


Hook, are you still upset you don't get to have what we have?







Tons of problems!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16462849
> 
> 
> When that happens, try flipping the channel and going back to it. I had no picture on Anizal Planet. Changed the channel to WKYC, went back to Anizal and it had picture!
> 
> 
> Also I left the TV on ABC Family with no picture for awhile and one time it came on automatically after a few minutes. Weird.
> 
> 
> Hook, are you still upset you don't get to have what we have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tons of problems!



It would appear that your issues are not everybodys issue. Vchat indicates his is working ok. The post above yours says things are fine. Inundated reported all was well. Only a couple of people are reporting issues.


I just want to get it and get it over with. If I have issues I will get them taken care of.


----------



## lewis1982

all new channels are black with no sound for me right now..whats wierd is the other sdv channels are fine its just the new ones that are doing this..anybody have a clue why?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16464001
> 
> 
> all new channels are black with no sound for me right now..whats wierd is the other sdv channels are fine its just the new ones that are doing this..anybody have a clue why?



My advice is don't sit on your hands about this and hope for the best. That's not going to resolve your issue.


Call TW and explain the problem to them. Make them send a tech out.


You see telling us about it is fine but unless TW can even acknowledge a problem exist it isn't going to get fixed. That can only come by people placing calls.


Let us know how your service call works out. Good luck.


----------



## lewis1982

ya i plan on calling them shortly..it sucks tho everytime someone comes its like i know more than they do lol..ill give it a shot


----------



## lewis1982

ok just checked diagostics and its saying sdv last initization time as 5/15 720am.. i remember it saying 5/9 last time and just wondered from you experts if that means anything..also channels back up and working now but for how long?


----------



## hookbill

nickdawg, lewis1982 OMW wants to hear from you.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/0...v-request.html 


Friday, May 15, 2009

TWC HDTV Request

OMW would like to know if any readers are still experiencing various glitches related to the rollout of new HD channels in Time Warner Cable's Northeast Ohio footprint.

This request is only for those in areas which have already received the most recent set of channels released to areas with Switched Digital Video (SDV) activated, who have seen such issues as channel breakup or audio with no video.


If you're in a TWC area and without the channels originally promised "on or about" April 29th, we don't need to hear from you...


Thanks in advance!


----------



## nickdawg

What happened to this TV? I remember in all the clutter of HD channel additions, TWC mentioned that This TV would be added "on or after May 15".


----------



## shooter21198

Strange new twist all SDV channels work but ESPN and ESPN2 and maybe more were broken


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16471666
> 
> 
> Strange new twist all SDV channels work but ESPN and ESPN2 and maybe more were broken



I'm not certain but I didn't think ESPN and ESPN2 are SDV.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16471672
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but I didn't think ESPN and ESPN2 are SDV.



In Amherst no ESPN or ESPN2 and we don't even have SDV yet.


----------



## shooter21198

i forgot to mention ESPN/2 is not SDV


----------



## hookbill

Well, I not only didn't have ESPN HD or ESPN2 HD, I had no digital channels at all on my TiVo's. Both of them.


There is a message at the beginning saying they know about ESPN issue so don't bother them, they are working on it. Not exactly what it said but you get the idea.


They must have been fooling around with something for both of my TiVo's to go out at the same time. What was weird was when I first turned it on I had a signal from MLB Extra Innings where I left both of my TiVo's last night. I changed channels and found out all digital channels were gone. I tried to go back to the channel I had originally tuned into but it was gone too.


A call to customer service, a reboot, and I'm back in business on both machines. I'm a little p.o.'d because I had to stop my recording of TNA Wrestling, I don't know if there is another replay but hey it's only wrestling.


Just for the TiVo owners you can really get these guys to work with you if you have your cable card numbers available with you so if you ever have the opportunity write down your card numbers. Store them in your computer and do a print out available by your TiVo's, it will come in handy. They are more then willing to work with you if you have those numbers, they don't get confused. Otherwise, truck roll, wasted time, and all that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16471672
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but I didn't think ESPN and ESPN2 are SDV.



They were never on the list scheduled to become SDV. And it would be a very GOOD decision to NOT put ESPN/ESPn2 on SDV. Given the reliability of SDV, you'd have many more P.O.ed customers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16473822
> 
> 
> They were never on the list scheduled to become SDV. And it would be a very GOOD decision to NOT put ESPN/ESPn2 on SDV. Given the reliability of SDV, you'd have many more P.O.ed customers.



I sure hope they don't screw around with stuff again and make me have to have my cable cards hit again.


This brings me back to the STB. How come that didn't require a hit? Why just my TiVo cards?


This whole cable card thing is weird, and I've been going through it for a couple of years now.


----------



## lewis1982

getting hd not available now on past and new hd channels..this never ends


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16474762
> 
> 
> getting hd not available now on past and new hd channels..this never ends



No problems on any of the HD channels here.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16474872
> 
> 
> No problems on any of the HD channels here.



they came back on for me a little bit ago.. they were doing the unavailable for a while.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16475049
> 
> 
> they came back on for me a little bit ago.. they were doing the unavailable for a while.



Maybe they're finally fixing it. I had some missing channels the other night, then they worked all day Friday.


Only about 10 days until we do this all over again(with the May 25th channel additions)


439 Golf 439

453 National Geo 453

451 Science 451

478 FX 478

483 CNN

485 Fox News 485


HDTV Tier:

474? MAV HD

475? Smithsonian HD


Bringing the total channels to: *35*


430 ESPNHD

431 ESP2HD

432 ESPN News HD

433 BTNHD

435 STOHD

438 MLBHD

439 GOLFHD

441 TNTHD

442 TBSHD

443 USAHD

444 A&EHD

445 HGTVD

446 FOODHD

447 History HD

448 Discovery HDT

449 Discovery HD

450 TLCHD

451 Science HD

452 Anizal Planet HD

453 National Geographic HD

456 Disney HD

460 ABC Family HD

465 Bravo HD

469 PALHD

470 UHD

471 HD NET

472 HDNET Movies

473 MGMHD

474 MAV HD

475 Smithsonian HD

476 SCIFHD

478 FX

483 CNN

485 Fox News

486 CNBCHD


That list is pretty impressive for TWC NEO considering we only had about 10 (14 with the HD Tier) about 3 months ago!


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16475195
> 
> 
> Maybe they're finally fixing it. I had some missing channels the other night, then they worked all day Friday.
> 
> 
> Only about 10 days until we do this all over again(with the May 25th channel additions)
> 
> 
> 439 Golf 439
> 
> 453 National Geo 453
> 
> 451 Science 451
> 
> 478 FX 478
> 
> 483 CNN
> 
> 485 Fox News 485
> 
> 
> HDTV Tier:
> 
> 474? MAV HD
> 
> 475? Smithsonian HD
> 
> 
> Bringing the total channels to: *35*
> 
> 
> 430 ESPNHD
> 
> 431 ESP2HD
> 
> 432 ESPN News HD
> 
> 433 BTNHD
> 
> 435 STOHD
> 
> 438 MLBHD
> 
> 439 GOLFHD
> 
> 441 TNTHD
> 
> 442 TBSHD
> 
> 443 USAHD
> 
> 444 A&EHD
> 
> 445 HGTVD
> 
> 446 FOODHD
> 
> 447 History HD
> 
> 448 Discovery HDT
> 
> 449 Discovery HD
> 
> 450 TLCHD
> 
> 451 Science HD
> 
> 452 Anizal Planet HD
> 
> 453 National Geographic HD
> 
> 456 Disney HD
> 
> 460 ABC Family HD
> 
> 465 Bravo HD
> 
> 469 PALHD
> 
> 470 UHD
> 
> 471 HD NET
> 
> 472 HDNET Movies
> 
> 473 MGMHD
> 
> 474 MAV HD
> 
> 475 Smithsonian HD
> 
> 476 SCIFHD
> 
> 478 FX
> 
> 483 CNN
> 
> 485 Fox News
> 
> 486 CNBCHD
> 
> 
> That list is pretty impressive for TWC NEO considering we only had about 10 (14 with the HD Tier) about 3 months ago!



ya plus 5-7 more each month we will have tons..i was gonna get satellite because i was frustrated with the lack of hd, until i read that we were getting additions..im sure they will get it sorted out.. ill just be patient lol


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16475223
> 
> 
> ya plus 5-7 more each month we will have tons..i was gonna get satellite because i was frustrated with the lack of hd, until i read that we were getting additions..im sure they will get it sorted out.. ill just be patient lol



And it will be even better by June 15. By then we will have over 40 channels. At least those of us with SDV.







TWC better get off their ASS on that!










As of June 15, *41* HD channels:


430 ESPNHD

431 ESP2HD

432 ESPN News HD

433 BTNHD

434 ESPNUHD*

435 STOHD

437 Speed HD*

438 MLBHD

439 GOLFHD

440 Versus HD*

441 TNTHD

442 TBSHD

443 USAHD

444 A&EHD

445 HGTVD

446 FOODHD

447 History HD

448 Discovery HDT

449 Discovery HD

450 TLCHD

451 Science HD

452 Anizal Planet HD

453 National Geographic HD

454 Travel HD*

456 Disney HD

460 ABC Family HD

463 AMCHD*

464 Lifetime Movie HD*

465 Bravo HD

469 PALHD

470 UHD

471 HD NET

472 HDNET Movies

473 MGMHD

474 MAV HD

475 Smithsonian HD

476 SCIFHD

478 FX

483 CNN

485 Fox News

486 CNBCHD


----------



## shooter21198

That list is huge silly TWC what happened to the days of 14 HD Channels and everyone hated it


----------



## lewis1982

anybody getting the hd not available..doing it on the old hd channels


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16478917
> 
> 
> anybody getting the hd not available..doing it on the old hd channels



Which channels, specifically? I don't want to check my entire 15 channels of HD.


----------



## hookbill

The CW seems to be down, but that's about it. More high quality HD from Time Warner.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16478933
> 
> 
> Which channels, specifically? I don't want to check my entire 15 channels of HD.




usahd,hdnet hd movies bunch of others cant remember not by the tv to check


----------



## lewis1982

checked diagnostics and says no sdv bandwith on the messed channels


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16478953
> 
> 
> The CW seems to be down, but that's about it. More high quality HD from Time Warner.



The CW is down here too. Black screen on HD, yellow screen on channel 7.


That's the only one. Too bad, I like Drew Carey show!


----------



## lewis1982

did a reboot and they are working now..nuts


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16478984
> 
> 
> The CW is down here too. Black screen on HD, yellow screen on channel 7.
> 
> 
> That's the only one. Too bad, I like Drew Carey show!



I got out my rabbit ears and checked 55 analog OTA. There is a black screen on that channel too. Don't know what the yellow screen on channel 7 means...


----------



## Vchat20

Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.


In particular I am interested in which headend people are on. If you don't know it right away, a good check is to use this tool if you have TW's internet service: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch and post the second to last hop (usually has your city name or one close to it in the name) and failing that, check the forecasted city on the Local on the 8's on the weather channel.


And of course whether or not you actually have SDV and if it is working out for you or having problems, etc.. Basically as detailed as you can be.


And if you know anyone who isn't a member here but can participate in this poll, try to get info from them as well.


/IF/ I can get enough participation, I'm gonna try and get an exhaustive table up for the region here. Too many people who have posted about problems so far here have not posted enough info, what headend they are fed off, stuff like that. Just 'OMG IT DOESNT WORK'.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479096
> 
> 
> Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.
> 
> 
> In particular I am interested in which headend people are on. If you don't know it right away, a good check is to use this tool if you have TW's internet service: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch and post the second to last hop (usually has your city name or one close to it in the name) and failing that, check the forecasted city on the Local on the 8's on the weather channel.
> 
> 
> And of course whether or not you actually have SDV and if it is working out for you or having problems, etc.. Basically as detailed as you can be.
> 
> 
> And if you know anyone who isn't a member here but can participate in this poll, try to get info from them as well.
> 
> 
> /IF/ I can get enough participation, I'm gonna try and get an exhaustive table up for the region here. Too many people who have posted about problems so far here have not posted enough info, what headend they are fed off, stuff like that. Just 'OMG IT DOESNT WORK'.



Bainbridge head end. No SDV. So OMG IT DOESN'T WORK now does it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479096
> 
> 
> Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.
> 
> 
> In particular I am interested in which headend people are on. If you don't know it right away, a good check is to use this tool if you have TW's internet service: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch and post the second to last hop (usually has your city name or one close to it in the name) and failing that, check the forecasted city on the Local on the 8's on the weather channel.
> 
> 
> And of course whether or not you actually have SDV and if it is working out for you or having problems, etc.. Basically as detailed as you can be.
> 
> 
> And if you know anyone who isn't a member here but can participate in this poll, try to get info from them as well.
> 
> 
> /IF/ I can get enough participation, I'm gonna try and get an exhaustive table up for the region here. Too many people who have posted about problems so far here have not posted enough info, what headend they are fed off, stuff like that. Just 'OMG IT DOESNT WORK'.



TWC Akron-original TWC area. Don't know the specific headend. OMG IT WORKS, but for how long?


----------



## Vchat20

hookbill: Correct me if I'm wrong but you guys do get all the new channels even though SDV isn't active yet? Or you just have the first wave of channels from April?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479515
> 
> 
> hookbill: Correct me if I'm wrong but you guys do get all the new channels even though SDV isn't active yet? Or you just have the first wave of channels from April?



Everyone got the 3/31 channels(USA, SCIFI, Discovery, Disney, Palladia) because there must have been enough non-SDV room left on all the systems. Only areas with SDV got the 4/30 5/8 HD channels. I don't think anyone without SDV would get those channels, not enough bandwidth. Or else we all would have had more channels in the past.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479515
> 
> 
> hookbill: Correct me if I'm wrong but you guys do get all the new channels even though SDV isn't active yet? Or you just have the first wave of channels from April?




I only got the first wave. The batch with USA in it.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479096
> 
> 
> Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.
> 
> 
> In particular I am interested in which headend people are on. If you don't know it right away, a good check is to use this tool if you have TW's internet service: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch and post the second to last hop (usually has your city name or one close to it in the name) and failing that, check the forecasted city on the Local on the 8's on the weather channel.
> 
> 
> And of course whether or not you actually have SDV and if it is working out for you or having problems, etc.. Basically as detailed as you can be.
> 
> 
> And if you know anyone who isn't a member here but can participate in this poll, try to get info from them as well.
> 
> 
> /IF/ I can get enough participation, I'm gonna try and get an exhaustive table up for the region here. Too many people who have posted about problems so far here have not posted enough info, what headend they are fed off, stuff like that. Just 'OMG IT DOESNT WORK'.



Not sure if I'm reading it right, but the second to the last one says Kent, and the last one says Macedonia.


As a side note, I still have SARA and I'm sure I don't have SDV (as I still only have the first wave of new HD channels). Anyone have an idea if Sagamore Hills already has the changes and somehow I don't? Or can I expect to never get this stuff?


I've been seriously considering D* as well, but only if I don't get that huge list of HD channels ASAP.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16479859
> 
> 
> Not sure if I'm reading it right, but the second to the last one says Kent, and the last one says Macedonia.
> 
> 
> As a side note, I still have SARA and I'm sure I don't have SDV (as I still only have the first wave of new HD channels). Anyone have an idea if Sagamore Hills already has the changes and somehow I don't? Or can I expect to never get this stuff?
> 
> 
> I've been seriously considering D* as well, but only if I don't get that huge list of HD channels ASAP.



In regards to the traceroute: If your router is set up to allow incoming pings and the traceroute ends with a 'destination reached', it would be the second to the last hop. Otherwise, you probably have a lot of 'timeout' results at the end of the list in which the last hop that actually displayed is the particular one.


So in your case it's probably the Macedonia listing. Someone more well informed than me knows if Macedonia has their own headend or they feed off of Kent?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479948
> 
> 
> In regards to the traceroute: If your router is set up to allow incoming pings and the traceroute ends with a 'destination reached', it would be the second to the last hop. Otherwise, you probably have a lot of 'timeout' results at the end of the list in which the last hop that actually displayed is the particular one.
> 
> 
> So in your case it's probably the Macedonia listing. Someone more well informed than me knows if Macedonia has their own headend or they feed off of Kent?



I can't say where his signals coming from but I do know Macedonia is not SDV. Where ks Cathode Kid when you need him?


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479096
> 
> 
> Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.
> 
> 
> In particular I am interested in which headend people are on. If you don't know it right away, a good check is to use this tool if you have TW's internet service: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch and post the second to last hop (usually has your city name or one close to it in the name) and failing that, check the forecasted city on the Local on the 8's on the weather channel.
> 
> 
> And of course whether or not you actually have SDV and if it is working out for you or having problems, etc.. Basically as detailed as you can be.
> 
> 
> And if you know anyone who isn't a member here but can participate in this poll, try to get info from them as well.
> 
> 
> /IF/ I can get enough participation, I'm gonna try and get an exhaustive table up for the region here. Too many people who have posted about problems so far here have not posted enough info, what headend they are fed off, stuff like that. Just 'OMG IT DOESNT WORK'.



Sharon,PA former adelphia..not sure about headend


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479096
> 
> 
> Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.



Downtown Cuyahoga Falls area - Tivo HD w/tuning adapter and two cable cards, and an SA8300. SDV active on both boxes. No opinion on how the 8300 is working - don't watch much on that one since it's not HD and I haven't tried any non-HD SDV. The Tivo has been hit-and-miss on SDV channels the last few weeks. Tonight, USAHD just reports "Channel not available"...


I'll spend some time tomorrow poking through the channels and see what turns up.


----------



## Vchat20

mnowlin: I take it you are in ex-Adelphia land up there or legacy? Kinda hard to tell once you get in that area of the state. And do you have all the channels including the latest batch or just the first batch?


I have posted this spreadsheet up on google docs and it's open for editing. I only ask the formatting be left alone, do not edit any entries but your own, and keep things as short and sweet and with relevant details. If you are not sure about something like your headend or if your area is legacy or not, suffix it with question mark like I have now for a few entries.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...ytUTinldEVm2ag


----------



## mnowlin

Legacy TWC... I believe I have all channels including the latest batch, but I'll need to check both boxes to be sure.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm confused, are we supposed to be able to edit that spreadsheet? I'm not getting anything...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16480755
> 
> 
> mnowlin: I take it you are in ex-Adelphia land up there or legacy? Kinda hard to tell once you get in that area of the state.



Cuyahoga Falls is pretty easy to figure out, if you know the area over here.


The "main" part of the Falls is always legacy TWC. It's part of the original Akron-based Warner Cable system dating back to my misspent youth. We're talking the former "A/B" cable system here. Heck, we even had WTRF (Wheeling) and WTOV (Steubenville) on the system!


Well, until the NFL forced them off.










Somewhere in the mid-1980's, Cuyahoga Falls annexed the bulk of what is now the former Northampton Township, which is mostly west and north of State Road.


Warner Cable/Warner Amex/Time Warner never wired Northampton Township. By around the time of the annexation, the old Cablevision had wired the mostly-rural-semi-suburban areas in Western Summit County....Bath/Copley/Richfield , and including the now-former Northampton Township.


That old Cablevision system was bought by Adelphia, and is now in TWC's post-merger world.


So, basically, in the Falls - original Falls = legacy TWC, and former Northampton = ex-Adelphia. (Parts of Northampton got swallowed piece by piece into the city of Akron, and that's ex-Adelphia land, too. Look at a map, it's the part where the border looks like it was drawn by a drunk guy.)


All of this area, including here, is fed out of the Bath headend, which the tool you posted confirms.


----------



## Vchat20

Alright. Thanks. That clears up a few things for me there.










also, nickdawg: It should be working now. I coulda swore I set it to allow public editing the first time. :S


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16481020
> 
> 
> Alright. Thanks. That clears up a few things for me there.



Basically, the more likely you are to see deer and cows, the more likely you're ex-Adelphia in the Falls.







mnowlin said he was downtown, which is definitely legacy...


And don't let nickdawg edit that thing. It'll be filled with "Crime Warner Cable" messages by sunrise!!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16481012
> 
> 
> Cuyahoga Falls is pretty easy to figure out, if you know the area over here.
> 
> 
> The "main" part of the Falls is always legacy TWC. It's part of the original Akron-based Warner Cable system dating back to my misspent youth. We're talking the former "A/B" cable system here. Heck, we even had WTRF (Wheeling) and WTOV (Steubenville) on the system!
> 
> 
> Well, until the NFL forced them off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere in the mid-1980's, Cuyahoga Falls annexed the bulk of what is now the former Northampton Township, which is mostly west and north of State Road.
> 
> 
> Warner Cable/Warner Amex/Time Warner never wired Northampton Township. By around the time of the annexation, the old Cablevision had wired the mostly-rural-semi-suburban areas in Western Summit County....Bath/Copley/Richfield , and including the now-former Northampton Township.
> 
> 
> That old Cablevision system was bought by Adelphia, and is now in TWC's post-merger world.
> 
> 
> So, basically, in the Falls - original Falls = legacy TWC, and former Northampton = ex-Adelphia. (Parts of Northampton got swallowed piece by piece into the city of Akron, and that's ex-Adelphia land, too. Look at a map, it's the part where the border looks like it was drawn by a drunk guy.)
> 
> 
> All of this area, including here, is fed out of the Bath headend, which the tool you posted confirms.



My question has always been why hasn't CWC connected those parts to the "original" system? It seems like something that would have made sense with the current SDV transition. Since CWC is eventually going to switch all of the area to Navigator, it would have given them a head start by automatically changing areas close to the legacy area.


I'm familiar with the area. North Main Street continues through Cuyahoga Falls to a small old bridge by the carwash. Everything past that is "Northampton" and the existing Cablevision/Adelphia area. Doesn't make sense why they didn't just pull a cable across there and connect the two systems...


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16480755
> 
> 
> mnowlin: I take it you are in ex-Adelphia land up there or legacy? Kinda hard to tell once you get in that area of the state. And do you have all the channels including the latest batch or just the first batch?
> 
> 
> I have posted this spreadsheet up on google docs and it's open for editing. I only ask the formatting be left alone, do not edit any entries but your own, and keep things as short and sweet and with relevant details. If you are not sure about something like your headend or if your area is legacy or not, suffix it with question mark like I have now for a few entries.
> 
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...ytUTinldEVm2ag



FYI, I checked the SDV Carousel on my 8300 last night and they were all zeros. Confirmed NO SDV in my area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nosey313* /forum/post/16482883
> 
> 
> FYI, I checked the SDV Carousel on my 8300 last night and they were all zeros. Confirmed NO SDV in my area.



When you turn on set top box/ DVR what channel does it come on? I believe when they turn on the SDV your box will start turning on at channel 1.


Is that the correct channel? Anyone with SDV please fee free to answer.


My 4250 tunes to channel 23.


----------



## nosey313




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16483141
> 
> 
> When you turn on set top box/ DVR what channel does it come on? I believe when they turn on the SDV your box will start turning on at channel 1.
> 
> 
> Is that the correct channel? Anyone with SDV please fee free to answer.
> 
> 
> My 4250 tunes to channel 23.



My 8300HDC turns on to 71.


----------



## nosey313

So says Multichannel News. 


Well, considering I wouldn't pay the $5 extra for the package, I guess I won't be shedding a tear. But I know quite a few people who are fans of this channel. Honestly, if someone could just tell me _why_ I basically have the exact same service (SARA, no SDV, etc), as I did a year ago, I'd be happy.


----------



## nickdawg

HD Net and HD Net Movies are being dropped from TWC:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148246


----------



## 2PuttChuck

I assume this is the headend - gig14-0-0.ncntoh1-rtr2.neo.rr.com.


SDV available and seems to work fine, after some glitches the first weekend.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16484483
> 
> 
> HD Net and HD Net Movies are being dropped from TWC:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148246



I enjoyed watching there Concerts on Sunday plus other shows during the week..


Plus I thought it was on the best quality HD channels we got


So what channels will replace those 2 in the Pay HD Package..or are they dropping that completely ??


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16479130
> 
> 
> Bainbridge head end. No SDV. So OMG IT DOESN'T WORK now does it.



Check again on the morning of the 27th.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16486397
> 
> 
> I enjoyed watching there Concerts on Sunday plus other shows during the week..
> 
> 
> Plus I thought it was on the best quality HD channels we got
> 
> 
> So what channels will replace those 2 in the Pay HD Package..or are they dropping that completely ??



When the tech came out to make sure I was getting all my channels he had to refer to the channel guide that sits on the counters at TW offices. He couldn't believe they charged for the extra tier of three channels. And considering I've been getting Universal all this time for free I imagine they are going to get rid of that tier.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16486496
> 
> 
> Check again on the morning of the 27th.



Oh, so now I've got a firm date to look forward to having problems.










Well, I was certain it was going to be the last week of this month. This just confirms it more or less.


So you want to tell us now how you know so much? Come on, it will feel good to get it into the open.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16486496
> 
> 
> Check again on the morning of the 27th.



Is that a promise?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16486991
> 
> 
> Is that a promise?



He doesn't give up anything very often. He knows my contact said last week of the month. I just hope its a smooth transition for my TiVos.


Hey Kid you got any info on what happened in regards to both of my Tivos losing their digital signal last Saturday?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16487101
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Kid you got any info on what happened in regards to both of my Titos losing their digital signal last Saturday?



I hope your Hawaiian friends TVs are fixed by now!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16487119
> 
> 
> I hope your Hawaiian friends TVs are fixed by now!!



Typos are easy with touch screens. I fixed it.


One good thing about the 27th is its a Wed. And should need some help on that day I will be able to reach my contact.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16487252
> 
> 
> Typos are easy with touch screens. I fixed it.
> 
> 
> One good thing about the 27th is its a Wed. And should need some help on that day I will be able to reach my contact.



But it lives on forever in my quote!










Hook, it'll be christmas morning for you on the 27th! We have new channels coming in about 7 days(the 25th) plus the new HD Tier additions on the 27th. Also, you'll be getting the last batch you missed. I hope they have everything working 100% by that time.


----------



## lewis1982

I wonder if theyll add some premium hd.. since i refuse to watch sd, having more than 4 would be nice


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16487889
> 
> 
> I wonder if theyll add some premium hd.. since i refuse to watch sd, having more than 4 would be nice



They are getting rid of the current premium channels and I will bet Universal is free for everybody.


Their big promotion is "The Home of Free HD.". They have it plastered all over Dodger Stadium. I don't thi k you will see anymore premium tiers.


----------



## ErieMarty

do not know anything about the Dropping of HDNet and HDNet movies.. as I called this morning to find out whats going on with it and will something replace those channels in that area or will the extra cost be dropped. Lady was very nice and even checked with her supervisor and they haven't heard anything about the dropping of those channels..


she said you would think we wouldn know before the general public...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16488179
> 
> 
> do not know anything about the Dropping of HDNet and HDNet movies.. as I called this morning to find out whats going on with it and will something replace those channels in that area or will the extra cost be dropped. Lady was very nice and even checked with her supervisor and they haven't heard anything about the dropping of those channels..
> 
> 
> she said you would think we wouldn know before the general public...


 Engadget is saying it will end at end of month and they are usually as the British say, "spot on." They did however recently blow a call where they said a new official OS was going to be added on for my Blackberry Storm and that turned out to be totally false.


So at this point "strong rumor" would apply.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16479096
> 
> 
> Ok. In response to another thread I wanna start a mini-poll here to gather some data. Particular on SDV here in the NEO area.
> 
> 
> In particular I am interested in which headend people are on. If you don't know it right away, a good check is to use this tool if you have TW's internet service: http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/tracert.ch and post the second to last hop (usually has your city name or one close to it in the name) and failing that, check the forecasted city on the Local on the 8's on the weather channel.
> 
> 
> And of course whether or not you actually have SDV and if it is working out for you or having problems, etc.. Basically as detailed as you can be.



No SDV here yet here in South Russell. Second last hop shows "cpe-76-190-128-1.neo.res.rr.com", which doesn't mean much to me. The one before it shows "gig3-1.babroh1-rtr1.neo.rr.com", which might mean Bainbridge.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16488552
> 
> 
> No SDV here yet here in South Russell. Second last hop shows "cpe-76-190-128-1.neo.res.rr.com", which doesn't mean much to me. The one before it shows "gig3-1.babroh1-rtr1.neo.rr.com", which might mean Bainbridge.



The "neo.res.rr.com" means nothing in this...it's just where the old Adelphia folks got funneled into the TWC Roadrunner system.


The other one sounds like you're on target, though you may want to compare notes with hookbill...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16488895
> 
> 
> The "neo.res.rr.com" means nothing in this...it's just where the old Adelphia folks got funneled into the TWC Roadrunner system.
> 
> 
> The other one sounds like you're on target, though you may want to compare notes with hookbill...



I think it's safe to say that Jim and I are probably on the same head end. Expect the SDV then for the 27th.


Now as to whether it works and we get new HD channels, that's another story.


----------



## Rbuchina

I got a call from my brother in Righmond Hts that he (SA HD DVR box) and Dad (Old SA SD box) lost several channels today. When my brother called TWC he recieved a pre-recorded meassage that equipment and upgrades were being implemented, or something like that. I told him he was probably getting SDV and to be patient, He said he was told to not reboot the boxes. Anyone else from the Richmind hts area having any problems?

Ray


----------



## Vchat20

So the past couple days I have had the cable line on my box split so I can run the tv right off the incoming cable line as well as the box. Quite funny from a bandwidth perspective. Seems even down here we have about 6 WVIZ branded channels both HD and SD, WBNX in HD, and all the OTA subchannels (well, aside from a few that are not fed OTA to TWC. WKBN and WFMJ seem to be the case here as they are up in random QAMs like 120-3 and 120-1 on my set and only the main channels. 3, 5, 19, 43, etc.. are on their OTA positions and include the PSIP data and subchannels. But oddly no displayed program names.)


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16493391
> 
> 
> I got a call from my brother in Righmond Hts that he (SA HD DVR box) and Dad (Old SA SD box) lost several channels today. When my brother called TWC he recieved a pre-recorded meassage that equipment and upgrades were being implemented, or something like that. I told him he was probably getting SDV and to be patient, He said he was told to not reboot the boxes. Anyone else from the Richmind hts area having any problems?
> 
> Ray



Ray,


Here in Lyndhurst, my SA-8300 HD was dead yesterday before I left for work. It came back on at about 7:00PM last night. We seem to have a few more channels now.


Chris.


----------



## hookbill

I called TW and complained about my internet again yesterday. This time they sent out a tech who not only knew stuff he wanted to help.


First he did some testing, showed me on the web address that Vchat gave me what the signal should be. Then he said he didn't like the cable going out to the box. I have an under ground cable and he said it was an RS6 and they don't hold up that well with moisture so in about 2 weeks they will probably have a truck replace that cable. He did that so I could get a good clean signal not only for my internet but for the cable cards as well.


We got to talking about people, CSRs, TiVo's and SDV and as he explains it to me the reason the boxes with cable cards don't have issues like I have is because the Mac is specifically for that box and that card can't work in other boxes. Hence where I have cable card issues, a SA box is less likely to have that type of problems.


He acknowledged the date of 5/27 as the date SDV is to start and I told him I will probably end up calling my contact that day. I gave him her name and he knows her well, said she's the "go to" person on cable card issues and agreed, call her, not us.

















So now I'm on the replacement cable bandwagon. We will see how it goes from here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16498705
> 
> 
> I called TW and complained about my internet again yesterday. This time they sent out a tech who not only knew stuff he wanted to help.
> 
> 
> First he did some testing, showed me on the web address that Vchat gave me what the signal should be. Then he said he didn't like the cable going out to the box. I have an under ground cable and he said it was an RS6 and they don't hold up that well with moisture so in about 2 weeks they will probably have a truck replace that cable. He did that so I could get a good clean signal not only for my internet but for the cable cards as well.
> 
> 
> We got to talking about people, CSRs, TiVo's and SDV and as he explains it to me the reason the boxes with cable cards don't have issues like I have is because the Mac is specifically for that box and that card can't work in other boxes. Hence where I have cable card issues, a SA box is less likely to have that type of problems.
> 
> 
> He acknowledged the date of 5/27 as the date SDV is to start and I told him I will probably end up calling my contact that day. I gave him her name and he knows her well, said she's the "go to" person on cable card issues and agreed, call her, not us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now I'm on the replacement cable bandwagon. We will see how it goes from here.



Good luck with that!





















They say someone will be coming out in a few days, they never come...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16498900
> 
> 
> Good luck with that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They say someone will be coming out in a few days, they never come...



They send people out to your house, everything is working OK now isn't it? What are you complaining about now?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16486565
> 
> 
> So you want to tell us now how you know so much? Come on, it will feel good to get it into the open.



Knowledge is a gift. You want to look a gift horse in the mouth?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16498705
> 
> 
> First he did some testing, showed me on the web address that Vchat gave me what the signal should be. Then he said he didn't like the cable going out to the box. I have an under ground cable and he said it was an RS6 and they don't hold up that well with moisture so in about 2 weeks they will probably have a truck replace that cable. He did that so I could get a good clean signal not only for my internet but for the cable cards as well.



RG-6 is good, heavily shielded cable, but if it's a long drop you might be better served by RG-11 which has lower loss. It's much thicker than RG-6 so it's a little less flexible, but that doesn't matter for the drop line.


I wonder if they TDR'd the drop cable. Sometimes that's overkill but it's a definitive way to locate damaged (or flooded) sections of cable. Time Domain Reflectometry is nifty - it works radar, sending a calibrated 'blip' and measuring the amount of time until the return echo. It takes into account the propagation delay of the specific cable type, specified as a percentage of the speed of light, and delivers a distance measurement to the fault based upon that.


----------



## Inundated

So, is everyone up and running with working SDV and new glitch-free HD channels except for hookbill, Jim and their neighbors?


----------



## WilliamR

I just got all the new HD channels today. I am happy now. I forgot TLC was being added, my wife is happy. We also really enjoy Animal Planet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16502099
> 
> 
> I just got all the new HD channels today. I am happy now. I forgot TLC was being added, my wife is happy. We also really enjoy Animal Planet.



Great. Where do you live? It's something we are interested in seeing.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16502114
> 
> 
> Great. Where do you live? It's something we are interested in seeing.



Macedonia area of NE Ohio.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16503844
> 
> 
> Macedonia area of NE Ohio.



Really? Wow your the first from Macedonia I've seen. I guess I'll be last. It's suppose to come here on 5/27.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16504140
> 
> 
> Really? Wow your the first from Macedonia I've seen. I guess I'll be last. It's suppose to come here on 5/27.



Methinks someone played the "Fry card" one too many times...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16505962
> 
> 
> Methinks someone played the "Fry card" one too many times...



Twice is one time two many?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16506000
> 
> 
> Twice is one time two many?



I'm sure Mr. Fry thinks one time is too many. Steve-O seems like the kind of person that doesn't want to be bothered or give a s--t.


And I'm excited, less than four days until new channels!! I'll be able to watch Rescue Me live at its real time on F/X HD next week, instead of on VOD!! And my HD viewing hours per day will increase drastically once CNN HD is added!!


----------



## Moneo

gig1-11.lksdoh1-bb12.neo.rr.com


Looks like I'm out of their office on Lakeside in Cleveland. I have Palladium and Sci-Fi as of a few weeks ago, but haven't had a secondary rollout yet.


Sorry to see HDNet is going. Not sure why I was paying $5 a month for them, though.


Edit:

Does anyone in NEO have trouble with ESPN or SciFi HD? They've pretty much never worked for me. I can tune to them... but I either get a second or so of video/audio or it's just straight black. I've had a tech look at this remotely once and we may have temporarily fixed ESPN - but now SciFi is busted too.


----------



## subavision212

Haven't been in this forum much and have been reading to try and catch up. so are all these new HD channels being phased in bit by bit around NE Ohio? The other morning I had MLB channel and now it's gone. I haven't seen ANY new channels in the guide so I was just wondering what's up? I have a new 65" plasma and I am itching to see some new programming in HD. thanks much.

ed


----------



## hookbill

The reason why you don't have the new HD channels because they have not implemented SDV which is a technology that makes more bandwidth available in your area yet. Once they do you should get all available channels.


If you are near Bainbridge I can tell you it is suppose to happe on 5/27. If you live in another area it may be sooner or may be later but you will get it eventually.


----------



## nickdawg

Oh mighty TWC channel adding person, please add the following channels for the end of June batch:


1. MSNBCHD

2. WGNHD

3. SpikeTVHD

4. Comedy CentralHD

5. Cartoon networkHD


Digital Cable

1. StyleHD


Other:

WVPX HD


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16507444
> 
> 
> The reason why you don't have the new HD channels because they have not implemented SDV which is a technology that makes more bandwidth available in your area yet. Once they do you should get all available channels.
> 
> 
> If you are near Bainbridge I can tell you it is suppose to happe on 5/27. If you live in another area it may be sooner or may be later but you will get it eventually.



I don't think he's lacking SDV. He said he had MLB, then it was gone. It sounds like a problem with SDV channel broadcast.


----------



## Silvers24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16507444
> 
> 
> The reason why you don't have the new HD channels because they have not implemented SDV which is a technology that makes more bandwidth available in your area yet. Once they do you should get all available channels.
> 
> 
> If you are near Bainbridge I can tell you it is suppose to happe on 5/27. If you live in another area it may be sooner or may be later but you will get it eventually.



Oh man, I friggen hope.


Like 4 more days to go, so here is hoping.


----------



## TYTONK

FYI - All the QAM channels in the Twinsburg area were moved/changed/altered yesterday. Will have to do a rescan today when I get home. 3-1 was gone, there were multiple copies of other channels (two 5-1, 8-1, etc) one worked the other didn't. WBNX was moved from 102-1 to 55-1. Numerous changes. Wife said there was a crawler from TWC saying something about doing a rescan. I did not see it. Do you need to rescan with the cable boxes? This should be fun. I know, I know Nickdog. I should pay for a cable box.


----------



## ctown18

Wonder why no Weather Channel HD is scheduled for rollout.


----------



## Adam P

I just confirmed that I'm getting the package with MLB, ESPNews, etc on my SA 4250. Now I'm just trying to get my TiVo/Tuning adapter to cooperate.


I'm pretty sure I'm out of Lyndhurst.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16507467
> 
> 
> Oh mighty TWC channel adding person, please add the following channels for the end of June batch:
> 
> 
> 1. MSNBCHD
> 
> 2. WGNHD
> 
> 3. SpikeTVHD
> 
> 4. Comedy CentralHD
> 
> 5. Cartoon networkHD
> 
> 
> Digital Cable
> 
> 1. StyleHD
> 
> 
> Other:
> 
> WVPX HD



I wonder what Ion Media's bancruptcy will do to WVPX's DTV plans?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...FREE/905229997


----------



## schandorsky

My SA4250 box has rebooted twice on it's own in the last three days, but still no new channels or SDV.


----------



## Adam P

Ok, now it seems like I have a real mess on my hands.


I rebooted my TiVo several times because I had lost over 90% of my channels (all SD programming and a good deal of HD programming).


I checked TiVo's DVR Diagnostics and its telling me there is no CableCARD association. This just happened a few hours ago when my wife tried to switch to HGTV-HD. So then she tried the SD channel and we have nothing.


I called TWC and the service rep I got told me that CableCARD was done away with in April, that I should've received a letter about it then, and that I had to return my CableCARD to the local office. I knew this was a bunch of crap, so I just hung up and did a live chat. The rep I chatted with said he sent a refresh signal to my card, told me to remove the card and plug it back in after 30 seconds. I did that and it froze my TiVo so I pulled the power cord and restarted it. Still no channels.


This is driving me crazy, especially since for the next two months I will basically be out of the house from 7AM to 10PM every weekday, so a truck roll is out of the question.


Edit: So I took my Tuning Adapter out of the equation. Now I'm getting CableCARD association in the DVR Diagnostics menu, but still the same lack of channels.


----------



## WilliamR

I also love that when I turn my box back on it stays on the last channel we were on, even the PIP function. Very nice.


Love the new channels!!!


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16507492
> 
> 
> I don't think he's lacking SDV. He said he had MLB, then it was gone. It sounds like a problem with SDV channel broadcast.



yes, it was strange. i had just had a calibration done on my plasma and we were flipping through stations to check out the picture and there it was. looked amazing. but when I checked the next morning, nada. thanks for the info, though. I'll just keep an eye on my guide. I'm in Akron, by the way, not far from Macedonia so that's why I was wondering.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/16511264
> 
> 
> yes, it was strange. i had just had a calibration done on my plasma and we were flipping through stations to check out the picture and there it was. looked amazing. but when I checked the next morning, nada. thanks for the info, though. I'll just keep an eye on my guide. I'm in Akron, by the way, not far from Macedonia so that's why I was wondering.



You're in Akron? Where? Do you have the dark blue/black/gold guide(Navigator) or a purple/yellow/pastel color guide(SARA)?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/16508911
> 
> 
> FYI - All the QAM channels in the Twinsburg area were moved/changed/altered yesterday. Will have to do a rescan today when I get home. 3-1 was gone, there were multiple copies of other channels (two 5-1, 8-1, etc) one worked the other didn't. WBNX was moved from 102-1 to 55-1. Numerous changes. Wife said there was a crawler from TWC saying something about doing a rescan. I did not see it. Do you need to rescan with the cable boxes? This should be fun. *I know, I know Nickdog. I should pay for a cable box.*



You should. TWC is adding tons of new HD channels, only available with a cable box. Why torture yourself with just HD local channels and everything else in awful analog?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/16510040
> 
> 
> I wonder what Ion Media's bancruptcy will do to WVPX's DTV plans?
> 
> http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...FREE/905229997



I've seen in the HD thread that supposedly their digital transition will continue. Since WVPX is an O&O, a HD launch has probably already been arranged(I hope so).


Also, Univision has plans to launch a HD channel in time for the World Cup next year. And since Univision sesenta y uno is an O&O, we might also be in the fast lane for another HD OTA in Cleveland.


----------



## Moneo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16511247
> 
> 
> I also love that when I turn my box back on it stays on the last channel we were on, even the PIP function.



Oh man. I have hated my cable box coming up to channel 23 for the longest time. A smarter man may have purchased a nice Harmony remote - but here I am letting it come up to 23 and then switching to an HD channel and waiting for my projector to resync.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Moneo* /forum/post/16511773
> 
> 
> Oh man. I have hated my cable box coming up to channel 23 for the longest time.



You have some objection to polka music, bad folk music, ads for restaurants that are nowhere near here?


----------



## pbarach

I'm in Cleveland Hts and I have an SA8300HD cable box, but there are no new HD channels. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't somebody else post a few days ago that they are receiving additional HD channels in Cleveland Hts? I've rebooted the box, and nothing changes...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Moneo* /forum/post/16511773
> 
> 
> Oh man. I have hated my cable box coming up to channel 23 for the longest time. A smarter man may have purchased a nice Harmony remote - but here I am letting it come up to 23 and then switching to an HD channel and waiting for my projector to resync.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16511843
> 
> 
> You have some objection to polka music, bad folk music, ads for restaurants that are nowhere near here?



You can change the power on channel in the Settings menu. I think the list includes every channel as well as Last Channel(which keeps the box on the last channel you were watching).


----------



## nosey313

Came home from work to find SDV active on both my 8300HDCs and a slew of new HD channels. I feel better now. F/X HD will make it perfect!










Also, still have SARA. I thought I would get something new with the update. But I don't care.


----------



## Moneo

I don't believe my box (8300HDC) has the option to set the power on channel. I'm not too knowledgeable about cable or this box however - except to say that every Scientific Atlanta box I have ever seen has been slow and terrible.


Whoever thought it was a good idea to invent new technology that was slower (Blu-Ray players and cable boxes) - I'm not particularly a fan.


----------



## GregF2

Heard in the Amherst area we will not get the new HD channels until mid summer.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16511887
> 
> 
> You can change the power on channel in the Settings menu. I think the list includes every channel as well as Last Channel(which keeps the box on the last channel you were watching).



Not on my box (running SARA; I don't know which version); it doesn't have this setting. So I get polka from the Schnitzel Haus.


----------



## hookbill

Adam


Your tuner adapter simply needs to pick up the new channels. Plug it back in and hook up the USB. Then go to messages & settings navigate to cards & devices then select tuner adapter. It should say it needs to get channel info. Select continue and then go to live tv. You should get a receiving channels press TiVo. Do that wait about 2 minutes then try live tv again. Your channels should all be there.


----------



## Moneo

I'll have to call when HDNet gets dropped. Perhaps email would be more effective, however. What would be the best customer support email for NEO? Definitely want to register my complaint and get a semi-official answer on when I can expect an expanded line-up.


Honestly, I watch all of the local HD (Cavs right now), Daily Show/Colbert in SD and movies on HDNet Movies. I've been considering cancelling cable outright - but I like having HD options.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Moneo* /forum/post/16512998
> 
> 
> I'll have to call when HDNet gets dropped. Perhaps email would be more effective, however. What would be the best customer support email for NEO? Definitely want to register my complaint and get a semi-official answer on when I can expect an expanded line-up.
> 
> 
> Honestly, I watch all of the local HD (Cavs right now), Daily Show/Colbert in SD and movies on HDNet Movies. I've been considering cancelling cable outright - but I like having HD options.


 [email protected] 


Go right to the boss and let him know.


Also, you might want to talk to:

[email protected] 


the head of TWC programming department.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/16508911
> 
> 
> FYI - All the QAM channels in the Twinsburg area were moved/changed/altered yesterday. Will have to do a rescan today when I get home. 3-1 was gone, there were multiple copies of other channels (two 5-1, 8-1, etc) one worked the other didn't. WBNX was moved from 102-1 to 55-1. Numerous changes. Wife said there was a crawler from TWC saying something about doing a rescan. I did not see it. Do you need to rescan with the cable boxes? This should be fun. I know, I know Nickdog. I should pay for a cable box.



Has anyone in Twinsburg had any luck doing a rescan to find the new QAM channel locations. I just got back from a few days out of town, and I am rescanning now. What a PITA.


Oh yeah, still no new HD channels in Twinsburg.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/16513321
> 
> 
> Has anyone in Twinsburg had any luck doing a rescan to find the new QAM channel locations. I just got back from a few days out of town, and I am rescanning now. What a PITA.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, still no new HD channels in Twinsburg.



Unless you have a Time Warner settop box, you will not be seeing the new channels ever.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16513693
> 
> 
> Unless you have a Time Warner settop box, you will not be seeing the new channels ever.



Yep. For once I agree with nickdawg. All these new channels that have been added lately are all being added as SDV channels (even though some around the area who have only gotten the first batch are not in the SDV pool yet, they will be) and some existing channels are slowly being moved over as well. Even if your set is cablecard capable, you are still SOL and not gonna see a blip.


If you are expecting to see new channels: Call TW. Get a box. Or pony up for a Tivo and lease an M-Card.


----------



## nickdawg

Ehhh, you're better off getting a TWC box. Tivos are complicated with the cable cards, tuning adapters... But the TWC box, plug it inn and it works...


Well, most of the time


----------



## Vchat20

Eh. They are only an issue if you are expecting the techs to hold YOUR hand through it all. On the contrary, you need to hold THEIR hand through it. I'm sure hookbill can attest to this over and over. Keep your cablecard addresses and Tivo address on hand at all times, insist on a CSR who knows how to privision the cards, read back the addresses after read over the phone at least 3 times with phonetics to make sure they got it right, etc..


But I do agree the TWC boxes are much less hassle on that part. But as a tradeoff though of course.


----------



## nickdawg

It was hard enough getting my SDV to work. I don't think I'd ever mess with cable cards. Some of the things I've heard from Hook, they need to send "hits" to the cards, someone had to come out and look at it or something. And of course most TWC techs/CSRs aren't even qualified enough to be Best Buy salespeople.


It's bulls--t. It shouldn't require this much fighting and hassle just to watch TV.


And kinda on this topic: Have you ever seen any recording problems with the SDV channels? I've noticed on some channels, mostly TLC, when I record two shows back to back the second show is a partial recording. It never happens on non-SDV channels. I've had it happen twice on UHD and almost every day on TLC. The TLC recordings were around 6-7 AM, so I thought it might have something to do with them 'working' on the channels.


Oh yeah, and the PQ on TLC is 10x worse than USA. On a Trading Spaces I recorded today, it looked like 480i Digital Widescreen. The picture looked a bit blurry and out of focus and there were splotchy macroblocked areas a few times.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16514205
> 
> 
> It was hard enough getting my SDV to work. I don't think I'd ever mess with cable cards. Some of the things I've heard from Hook, they need to send "hits" to the cards, someone had to come out and look at it or something.



I dunno. You get the same mess with TWC's equipment when things bork up and it all works the same way. Usually the box doesn't take a provisioning change even with a reboot and during a call to a CSR about it miraculously the box starts working again. Same thing. Though to be completely honest, I haven't had this happen yet with the HDC equipment or navigator. Only ever seemed to have to take this step with Passport on the legacy equipment that I remember.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16514205
> 
> 
> And kinda on this topic: Have you ever seen any recording problems with the SDV channels? I've noticed on some channels, mostly TLC, when I record two shows back to back the second show is a partial recording. It never happens on non-SDV channels. I've had it happen twice on UHD and almost every day on TLC. The TLC recordings were around 6-7 AM, so I thought it might have something to do with them 'working' on the channels.



Actually, that you mention it I do. I have the 'HD Videos' slot on Palladia set for a series recording and they have two back to back sometimes from 3AM-6AM and 6AM-9AM. the 6-9 slot only seems to record for maybe 10-15 seconds or so and stop. Happens regularly, but not every time. No particular pattern that I can tell.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16514219
> 
> 
> Actually, that you mention it I do. I have the 'HD Videos' slot on Palladia set for a series recording and they have two back to back sometimes from 3AM-6AM and 6AM-9AM. the 6-9 slot only seems to record for maybe 10-15 seconds or so and stop. Happens regularly, but not every time. No particular pattern that I can tell.



YESS!!! That's exactly what happens!! On Monday or Tuesday I recorded the 6 and 7 AM airings of Clean Sweep on TLCHD. The 6AM episode recorded flawlessly. The 7AM episode Said "Record Length: 1 Min". When I started the show, it was on for a few seconds followed by the blue screen "Save, Delete, Restart". It recorded for less than one minute!!


Today(Friday) I recorded Trading Spaces and Clean Sweep. Trading Spaces worked fine. Clean Sweep recorded for 15 minutes and that was it.


The last two weeks I recorded A Minute With Stan Hooper on UHD. Both times the first episode was fine, the second episode cut off after 15 minutes.


One time I made myself wake up at 7AM to "observe" a recording. I came into the room at 7:01 and the record light was on. I turned on the TV + DVR and tuned to the channel, the record light turned itself off. Even though the light went off when I flipped the channel at 7:03, the entry in the DVR list still said "1 Min run time".


Really pissed me off how unreliable it is. On a box that is not even one month old yet. It also never misses a recording on a non-SDV channel or some other SDV channels.


I wonder if this is an ODN problem...


----------



## nickdawg

I posted this discussion over in the Main Navigator thread. Maybe we'll get some insight or other reports of this problem there.


Until then, I'm going to try back to back recordings on various SDV channels today and see what happens...


I set up back to back recordings of hour long shows on three SDV channels. I left an hour in between for the box to be 'inactive' to simulate the early morning recordings.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16514262
> 
> 
> Really pissed me off how unreliable it is. On a box that is not even one month old yet. It also never misses a recording on a non-SDV channel or some other SDV channels.
> 
> 
> I wonder if this is an ODN problem...



You know nickdawg, these are the same problems I had way back when I decided to shell out the 900 bucks (at that time) for a TiVo. Exactly the same. Partial recordings were the predominate issue, although just plain not recording happened frequently.


I do not have any missed or partial recordings on all the shows that I record on TiVo right up to today. I don't have a clue about Vchat20's problem but I know exactly what your issue is. It's that damn box. The fact that it is on SDV probably is just a coincidence.


I guess I can't confirm any of this until I get the SDV myself. I've played around now with the tuner adapters so that even though I haven't got SDV I have a good understanding on how they work. Now if I have the same issues then that would mean something about the signal. But I kind of doubt I'll see that, once I get past the issue I anticipate of having to have the tuner adapters find the new channels. But all that should take is simply unplugging the USB and plugging it back in.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16514205
> 
> 
> It was hard enough getting my SDV to work. I don't think I'd ever mess with cable cards. Some of the things I've heard from Hook, they need to send "hits" to the cards, someone had to come out and look at it or something. And of course most TWC techs/CSRs aren't even qualified enough to be Best Buy salespeople.
> 
> 
> It's bulls--t. It shouldn't require this much fighting and hassle just to watch TV.
> 
> 
> And kinda on this topic: Have you ever seen any recording problems with the SDV channels? I've noticed on some channels, mostly TLC, when I record two shows back to back the second show is a partial recording. It never happens on non-SDV channels. I've had it happen twice on UHD and almost every day on TLC. The TLC recordings were around 6-7 AM, so I thought it might have something to do with them 'working' on the channels.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, and the PQ on TLC is 10x worse than USA. On a Trading Spaces I recorded today, it looked like 480i Digital Widescreen. The picture looked a bit blurry and out of focus and there were splotchy macroblocked areas a few times.



IN THE BEGINNING, when cable cards first arrived with TiVo's techs would always put the blame on TiVo. Not anymore. They know it's the cable cards.


But your cable card shouldn't have any problems at all. It is designed to be used specifically by your box. You can't take that card out and put it in another box like my cable cards. That's suppose to insure stability, but the real groundwork of the stability lies ultimately, IMHO, the technology of the software. All it takes is one "Oh ****" to screw up everything.


Now as to my own personal adventures with cable cards most of the time its a problem receiving added HD channels and usually on one machine. The tech coming out the previous week had nothing to do with cable cards, I just didn't know if I had not received the signal for SDV to start since everyone from Akron to the Westside to Erie were saying they had the new channels.


I've learned how to pretty easily resolve cable card issues now but still TW screws up, like when they "forgot" to send a hit out to us for "Chiller." Which by the way I never watch.


Still through this all however I have not missed a recording nor have I had a partial recording. I may not get the channel, lol, but I don't miss the recording once I do get it.


----------



## orange5814




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16513693
> 
> 
> Unless you have a Time Warner settop box, you will not be seeing the new channels ever.



I have an 8300HDC in the living room. No new channels in Twinsburg in the last week or so. I was referring to the other TVs in the house that don't have set top boxes.


Thank you for the replies. I was just hoping that TW would rollout some new HD channels soon. I guess Twinsburg and Bainbridge are just stuck in the early 90's when it comes to cable. Still running SARA. No new channels. Thanks Adelphis.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/16515063
> 
> 
> I have an 8300HDC in the living room. No new channels in Twinsburg in the last week or so. I was referring to the other TVs in the house that don't have set top boxes.
> 
> 
> Thank you for the replies. I was just hoping that TW would rollout some new HD channels soon. I guess Twinsburg and Bainbridge are just stuck in the early 90's when it comes to cable. Still running SARA. No new channels. Thanks Adelphis.



Don't remember if I mentioned this on your previous post but the date for Bainbridge to start SDV is 5/27 and at that time we should get all new HD channels.


I'm about 7 miles from the east side of Twinsburg so it may very well be we are on the same head end. I would expect that you should see it on the morning of 5/27. You will still have SARA software.


----------



## SteveC

Anyone know what's going on with 19-1? It appears to be off the air.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteveC* /forum/post/16516194
> 
> 
> Anyone know what's going on with 19-1? It appears to be off the air.



It's my dream come true!!


----------



## Adam P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16512993
> 
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> Your tuner adapter simply needs to pick up the new channels. Plug it back in and hook up the USB. Then go to messages & settings navigate to cards & devices then select tuner adapter. It should say it needs to get channel info. Select continue and then go to live tv. You should get a receiving channels press TiVo. Do that wait about 2 minutes then try live tv again. Your channels should all be there.



I did that several times, but no dice. I was gone for the weekend, so I'm hoping some stuff was able to resolve itself. I still can't figure out why I lost all of my standard def programming.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16519646
> 
> 
> I did that several times, but no dice. I was gone for the weekend, so I'm hoping some stuff was able to resolve itself. I still can't figure out why I lost all of my standard def programming.



OK, so are you getting digital channels, just analog? What exactly are you getting?


If you are getting digital channels and some HD channels but not the new ones, that is a tuner adapter issue. Are you sure you went to the menu and let it find programming?


If you're not getting digital channels then they need to rehit your card, and the best way to do that is to have them hit it while you are rebooting.


Nothing with TiVo gets resolved on its own, usually it requires the cable company to do something. If it ever did "resolve" on it's own then probably somebody somewhere sent you a hit and you wern't aware of it.


----------



## Adam P

Right, I was getting no analog channels, and not all of my HD channels either (no 403, 405, or 407). I was still getting stuff like ESPN, TNT, TBS, and that sort of thing.


I just had someone hit the card but its still not working, and the green light on the tuning adapter won't stay solidly lit...it keeps flashing. It goes to the "Acquiring channel information" screen for a minute or so, but nothing new shows up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16519801
> 
> 
> Right, I was getting no analog channels, and not all of my HD channels either (no 403, 405, or 407). I was still getting stuff like ESPN, TNT, TBS, and that sort of thing.
> 
> 
> I just had someone hit the card but its still not working, and the green light on the tuning adapter won't stay solidly lit...it keeps flashing. *It goes to the "Acquiring channel information" screen for a minute or so*, but nothing new shows up.



Well, that's what it should do. Except the green light is suppose to stop flashing.


So let me see if I understand. At this time you are getting analog channels 2-99 right?


You are also getting your digital channels over 100?


The only HD channels missing as of now are the SDV ones?


Is that a good summary or am I missing something?


This is the cable card hotline 866.532.2598. Just tell them customer serviced patched you through to them. I think they can get you squared away if it isn't a bad tuner adapter.


Let me know how that works for you.


----------



## Adam P

No, I am getting no channels between 2 and 99 except for 22. The rest give me a grey screen and "Channel not available" or just a grey screen.


Ditto most of the channels over 100. It looks like I'm getting one of the kids' channels, and Animal Planet on 133. I also appear to be getting a few in the 130s and 150s except for the SDV channels. I am getting 188 which is an SDV channel according to the list I got from TWC with the tuning adapter.


In the 400s I am missing 403, 405, 407, 408, 435, 436, and the new channels like MLB, ESPNews, USAHD, etc.


The guy I was chatting with online thought it might be a faulty tuning adapter, and that they were showing a good connection with my cablecard.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16519894
> 
> 
> No, I am getting no channels between 2 and 99 except for 22. The rest give me a grey screen and "Channel not available" or just a grey screen.
> 
> 
> Ditto most of the channels over 100. It looks like I'm getting one of the kids' channels, and Animal Planet on 133. I also appear to be getting a few in the 130s and 150s except for the SDV channels. I am getting 188 which is an SDV channel according to the list I got from TWC with the tuning adapter.
> 
> 
> In the 400s I am missing 403, 405, 407, 408, 435, 436, and the new channels like MLB, ESPNews, USAHD, etc.
> 
> 
> The guy I was chatting with online thought it might be a faulty tuning adapter, and that they were showing a good connection with my cablecard.



Did you tell me that when you removed the tuner adapter that those other channels returned? I thought you did. If that's the case it's gotta be the tuner adapter then.


----------



## Adam P

No, the only thing that changed when I removed the tuning adapter is that under the "DVR Diagnostics" menu it went from showing "bad tune state" for the Cablecard to showing that it was functioning properly.


With the tuning adapter connect, if I go to the Tuning Adapter menu and then to Tuning Adapter Diagnostics menu, and scroll down to "SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO" it shows Authorized: Yes and SDV Channels: 103. But if I back out of that menu and then go to "Test Channels using CableCARD 1" in the Tuning Adapter menu it says "No channels available. Press Clear to exit."


I'm beginning to think that it is a tuning adapter issue, which would make the new problem going about getting a new one.


----------



## nickdawg

Tonight's the night---maybe? Or is it? We might see new channels, or not.


Tomorrow might be the day HD Net is dropped from the lineup? Or not? I'll bet that one happens in all areas, TWC loves taking stuff away from us!


----------



## hookbill

You think right now I'm the least bit concerned about additional channels? The only thing I care about is 5/27 and how much problem SDV is going to cause my Tivo. I may have to take some xanex to relieve my anxieety

Now I understand not everyone wit Tivo had a problem but it would just be my luck to have an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if I stayed up late just to monitor what happends on the morning.


I. Will worry about the other HD channels once I cross that first bridge.


----------



## lewis1982

im happy about the new hd, hope its tomorrow but im sure gonna miss my hdnet movies


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16527041
> 
> 
> You think right now I'm the least bit concerned about additional channels? The only thing I care about is 5/27 and how much problem SDV is going to cause my Tivo. I may have to take some xanex to relieve my anxieety
> 
> Now I understand not everyone wit Tivo had a problem but it would just be my luck to have an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if I stayed up late just to monitor what happends on the morning.
> 
> 
> I. Will worry about the other HD channels once I cross that first bridge.



lol..i hope u dont go through what i did...but it was all worth it now that everything works!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16527041
> 
> 
> You think right now I'm the least bit concerned about additional channels? The only thing I care about is 5/27 and how much problem SDV is going to cause my Tivo. I may have to take some xanex to relieve my anxieety
> 
> Now I understand not everyone wit Tivo had a problem but it would just be my luck to have an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if I stayed up late just to monitor what happends on the morning.
> 
> 
> I. Will worry about the other HD channels once I cross that first bridge.



I hope everything works out for you. I feel bad for all the Tito owners who put out huge bucks to buy fancy recording machines only to have them turned to crap by incompetent cable providers.


I'll bet you will have some problems, as they seem to universal with each batch of new added channels. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around the cable card issues. Lucky for you you have that excellent TWC contact. I *KNOW* he/she







will be able to fix any problem you have!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16527045
> 
> 
> im happy about the new hd, hope its tomorrow but im sure gonna miss my hdnet movies



I know. It was the most disappointing news. I don't watch that channel all the time, but it was nice to find a good movie there occasionally, especially since they are HD, usually OAR and with no commercials or crap on screen.


Smithsonian and "mav tv" will in no way replace the HD Net channels.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16527153
> 
> 
> I know. It was the most disappointing news. I don't watch that channel all the time, but it was nice to find a good movie there occasionally, especially since they are HD, usually OAR and with no commercials or crap on screen.
> 
> 
> Smithsonian and "mav tv" will in no way replace the HD Net channels.



ya i also didnt watch it regularly, but i would always find a movie thats never on other channels in hd.. oh well what ya gonna do...


----------



## ErieMarty

sightings yet ????


----------



## TYTONK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/16513321
> 
> 
> Has anyone in Twinsburg had any luck doing a rescan to find the new QAM channel locations. I just got back from a few days out of town, and I am rescanning now. What a PITA.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, still no new HD channels in Twinsburg.



Orange - Have found everything but WKYC 3-1. There is a 480i version at 91-3 but still have not found the HD version of channel 3 (even after numerous resets and rescans). I thought TWC was required to supply a clear QAM version of all the locals?


----------



## Tim Lones

TWC has reached a multiyear distribution deal with RFD-TV, which I assume is National..While they have a lot of agricultural/farm shows, they also have some Classic Country Music Shows..hosted by Ex-TNN personalities..Has anyone heard whether TWC/NEO (specifically Akron-Canton) might add this sometime?

http://www.rfdtv.com/Press/Releases/HTML/Time_Deal.asp


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16527706
> 
> 
> sightings yet ????



no new hd here in sharon,pa.. hoping they would be up this am..


----------



## mobgre

FYI


4 new channels showed up here this morning in N. Olmsted.


439 Golf HD

451 Science HD

453 Nat Geographic HD

483 CNN HD


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/16528991
> 
> 
> FYI
> 
> 
> 4 new channels showed up here this morning in N. Olmsted.
> 
> 
> 439 Golf HD
> 
> 451 Science HD
> 
> 453 Nat Geographic HD
> 
> 483 CNN HD



was this all we were suppost to get this time around ??


Would have been nice if they added Verus now instead of later..so we could watch NHL Playoffs in HD...


----------



## hookbill

Remember a few days ago I told you guys that TW was going to lay a thicker underground cable for me from my house to the box? They are here doing it now.


That took all of 1 week, not bad IMHO.










Now lets hope he doesn't hit the power lines, lol. If he does I got a generator but neighbors may not be happy.

















BTW, it's a subcontractor.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16527048
> 
> 
> lol..i hope u dont go through what i did...but it was all worth it now that everything works!



From what I can see the tuner adapters are working and I've got a good idea how they work so I think if anything occures, I'll be able to deal with it.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16529257
> 
> 
> BTW, it's a subcontractor.



I think TWC employs several people who basically act as flak-catchers when the subcontractors screw up. Their _main_ job is to express horror and disbelief at the shoddy workshop of subcontractors. Their _secondary_ job (and they are good at this) is to fix the hardware problem as it should have been done in the first place while letting the customer think they are getting special treatment.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/16528991
> 
> 
> FYI
> 
> 
> 4 new channels showed up here this morning in N. Olmsted.
> 
> 
> 439 Golf HD
> 
> 451 Science HD
> 
> 453 Nat Geographic HD
> 
> 483 CNN HD



We now have all the above channels along with


478 FX

485 Fox News


----------



## lewis1982

channels are up for me and working good.. looks like ill be watching a lot more tv.. nice job tw!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16529619
> 
> 
> We now have all the above channels along with
> 
> 
> 478 FX
> 
> 485 Fox News













Even though I don't have it I'm thrilled to see FX showing up on your guide. Hopefully I'll be able to record next weeks Rescue Me in HD. Heck I know it recorded it last night but maybe I can pick it up later in the week.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16529757
> 
> 
> channels are up for me and working good.. looks like ill be watching a lot more tv.. nice job tw!



Really glad to hear that about yours specially since you have TiVo.


I honestly believe I know how to bypass that issue you had with yours. We will see if I'm right tomorrow. That is if it is an issue. Not everyone with a TA had an issue.


I wonder whatever happened to Ed, last I heard he was still having issues with his TiVo.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16529778
> 
> 
> Really glad to hear that about yours specially since you have TiVo.
> 
> 
> I honestly believe I know how to bypass that issue you had with yours. We will see if I'm right tomorrow. That is if it is an issue. Not everyone with a TA had an issue.
> 
> 
> I wonder whatever happened to Ed, last I heard he was still having issues with his TiVo.



i dont have tivo, in the earlier post i was talking about the launch of sdv and how it was a mess for me.. sorry for the confusion


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16529978
> 
> 
> i dont have tivo, in the earlier post i was talking about the launch of sdv and how it was a mess for me.. sorry for the confusion



Oh that's ok, I can't remember who does and doesn't. As I said I'll find out how I come out of this tomorrow.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

All the new channels listed above are active here in Columbia Station, ex-Adelphia area.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16529764
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even though I don't have it I'm thrilled to see FX showing up on your guide. Hopefully I'll be able to record next weeks Rescue Me in HD. Heck I know it recorded it last night but maybe I can pick it up later in the week.



I get to *watch* Rescue Me on F/X HD tonight!










Nickdawg's movin on up! I hope you join us in the HD channel club next week!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16529257
> 
> 
> BTW, it's a subcontractor.



It usually is a subcontractor. Both times I had techs out, they had TWC vans. The guy who did the rewiring was a subcontractor. I guess they don't think it's worth wasting their own people on wiring.


They can always schedule another service call to fix what the last person screwed up!


----------



## Koonzee

Got all the new HD channels listed above,looks good. Located in the New Erie area(Port Clinton).Old Adelphia User.Anyone in this area know why we have never gotten NBC in HD?? Not even listed in the guide with the other networks.Nice forum, been a lurker for awhile,always find out more about TW problems from here then anywhere else. TY


----------



## lumber2398

Koonzee,


I'm also in the Port Clinton (old Adelphia) area. I contacted Time Warner last September about NBC (WNWODT). I was told they were in negotiations with WNWO and our area should receive the channel by the end of the year (2008).

We don't have it yet, so I don't know what the holdup is.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16529778
> 
> 
> I wonder whatever happened to Ed, last I heard he was still having issues with his TiVo.



I'm still here. Sorry I've been so quiet. A few weeks ago when I was having TA issues I was told I had the wrong box for my area(??) I should've had one with a orange sticker on the side. So I tried to go to the office to switch boxes and of course they didn't have any and said I'd have to go online to be put on a waiting list to be called back.










I got home and left the TA in the box for a week and then said what the heck and re-attached to the TiVo. Well, viola! All the HD I channels I'm supposed to be getting are coming in now!







So that's where we stand right now. I'll have to see what's happening with the new batch tonight when I get home.


Hey hook, did TiVo add guide info for today's new HD offerings yet?


----------



## nickdawg

So far I'm unimpressed with these new channels. I looked at the listings for Golf, most of it is Paid Programming and the rest is more boring than the paid programs-GOLF!! What a waste! I've been watching CNNHD all day, the only thing in HD is the damn commercials!! CNN Newsroom and now The Situation Room just have generic red "HD" bars on the side. Though I suppose it could be worse, at least it is not stretchovision!


----------



## nickdawg

Reminder, tonight at 8, 5 will be airing a special about Ted Henry's retirement.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16531067
> 
> 
> I'm still here. Sorry I've been so quiet. A few weeks ago when I was having TA issues I was told I had the wrong box for my area(??) I should've had one with a orange sticker on the side. So I tried to go to the office to switch boxes and of course they didn't have any and said I'd have to go online to be put on a waiting list to be called back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got home and left the TA in the box for a week and then said what the heck and re-attached to the TiVo. Well, viola! All the HD I channels I'm supposed to be getting are coming in now!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that's where we stand right now. I'll have to see what's happening with the new batch tonight when I get home.
> 
> 
> Hey hook, did TiVo add guide info for today's new HD offerings yet?



I know my HD TiVo got it so I forced a connection with my S3. Info coming in as I type this.


I know you probably tried it but I think the connection solution is unplug tuner adapter, plug it back in then unplug USB and plug back. Continue on to the tuner adapter diagnostic screen. If you can see diagnostics go to live tv and you should see a receiving channels message.


That's what I think lol. I will find out tomorrow.


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16531845
> 
> 
> I know my HD TiVo got it so I forced a connection with my S3. Info coming in as I type this.
> 
> 
> I know you probably tried it but I think the connection solution is unplug tuner adapter, plug it back in then unplug USB and plug back. Continue on to the tuner adapter diagnostic screen. If you can see diagnostics go to live tv and you should see a receiving channels message.
> 
> 
> That's what I think lol. I will find out tomorrow.



TiVoHD in Sheffield


Channels haven't hit the TiVo guide yet, but I am able to access all the new ones except for Fox News HD, CNN HD, and Golf HD by entering the channel number. These channels get "This channel is temporarily unavailable".


May try to force a connection in a bit.


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16531873
> 
> 
> TiVoHD in Sheffield
> 
> 
> Channels haven't hit the TiVo guide yet, but I am able to access all the new ones except for Fox News HD, CNN HD, and Golf HD by entering the channel number. These channels get "This channel is temporarily unavailable".
> 
> 
> May try to force a connection in a bit.



Forced a connection. Looks like "SMTHHD" (471) and "MAVTVHD" (472) were added to the guide. SMTHHD doesn't work right now but MAVTVHD does. I believe both of these are new to me.


FX, Golf, CNN, etc still not added to the guide.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/16532123
> 
> 
> Forced a connection. Looks like "SMTHHD" (471) and "MAVTVHD" (472) were added to the guide. SMTHHD doesn't work right now but MAVTVHD does. I believe both of these are new to me.
> 
> 
> FX, Golf, CNN, etc still not added to the guide.



If new guide data isn't there by tomorrow I will report it provided I have the channels.







. If I don't one of you lucky people can phone it in.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16532191
> 
> 
> If new guide data isn't there by tomorrow I will report it provided I have the channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . If I don't one of you lucky people can phone it in.



Yeah I'm getting Mav and Smithsonian data too but not the actual channels yet. The new batch of HD have the correct ID's on the channels but no guide data.


Who do we phone it in to?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16533067
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm getting Mav and Smithsonian data too but not the actual channels yet. The new batch of HD have the correct ID's on the channels but no guide data.
> 
> 
> Who do we phone it in to?



TiVo. Call them with the channel numbers and name of channels. MAKE SURE YOU GET A CASE NUMBER.


You could also contact Tribune Media www.zap2it.com . If it isn't available by tomorrow everyone should call . There is power in numbers.


----------



## nickdawg

Now if only TWC would get rid of the g-damn VOD portal channels on 479, 480 and 484. I hate those things! It impedes channel surfing because it takes so long for the data to load.


Although I do find int ironic and comical that FAUX News and Adult HD(aka P0RN HD) are right next to each other. Two channels that should never be viewed by children with impressionable minds!


----------



## WilliamR

Is this the last round of high def channels or are we getting more at the end of June? If we are, does anyone know what the next round in June is suppose to be?


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16533737
> 
> 
> Is this the last round of high def channels or are we getting more at the end of June? If we are, does anyone know what the next round in June is suppose to be?



June 15th.


LMN

Travel

AMC

Verses

Speed

ESPNU

MLB Extra Innings Hd


----------



## hookbill

As Cathode Kid predicted, I woke to find all kinds of new HD channels. However I did not get FX or any of the new ones that came out yesterday.


Perhaps later in the day I will see it.


I checked my HD TiVo first and it went off without a hitch MLB Network, CNBC Animal Planet, TLC the whole gang showed up at my door today.


It went almost without a hitch. Tuner Adapters immediately recognized the SDV on both TiVo's but typical of TW they didn't send a hit to one of my TiVo's. I had to call in, once I got a hit I was in business.


Again it's just so much easier if you write down the cable card number. I can't stress that enough when dealing with TW and it allows you to take control of the television.


Of course I double checked the 4250 and none of the new channels from yesterday are there either. Box had to have rebooted as I now notice it starts at channel 1 instead of 23, that will confuse the crap out of my wife when she returns.










So hopefully I will have the other new channels later in the day. At least I have most of them.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently I am receiving all the new channels with the exception of Mav & Smith. I assume you guys are receiving those.


Manually punching in the channels brought it up but I have no guide data on the TiVos for GOLF, SCIENCE, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, FX AND FOX NEWS (all HD) I double checked the 4250 and guide data is there but 471 and 472 do not have MAV and SMITH listed, they are still HDnet and HDnet Movies.


Don't know if you reported getting those yesterday but they appear to be part of the new premium tier.







. Good luck getting me to pay 6 bucks for that.


And just for nickdawgs benefit, I will see Resuce Me in HD, I set up an 11 pm manual recording on Friday.







I wouldn't be watching for a while anyway.


Now as part of my duties today I will call TiVo and get a ticket number for the channels we did not receive guide data for. Strangely enough they have FXHD listed as Big Ten On Demand.


So SDV has arrived, and it's looking good (so far). Thanks to Cathode Kid for the tip off on the exact day.


----------



## hookbill

I think it works faster to get guide data change if more then one person calls in. Number to call is 877.367.8486. Channels we need are 439 Golf HD, 451 Science HD, 453 National Geographic HD, and 485 Fox News HD. We also need to report that channel 478 is incorrectly listed as Big10HD on Demand and is actually 478 FX. When you call make sure you get a ticket number. This will benefit all of us. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16534392
> 
> 
> I think it works faster to get guide data change if more then one person calls in. Number to call is 877.367.8486. Channels we need are 439 Golf HD, 451 Science HD, 453 National Geographic HD, and 485 Fox News HD. We also need to report that channel 478 is incorrectly listed as Big10HD on Demand and is actually 478 FX. When you call make sure you get a ticket number. This will benefit all of us. Thanks in advance.



Done! Have a ticket number in hand. Also indicated 483 was CNN HD. He did note this was initially reported this morning (Hook!) I'd never called TiVo CS before, they seemed fast and efficient and knew what they were takling about (yeah, I'm lookin' at you TW!)










He did say it might take 5-7 days for the changes to go through...


----------



## lewis1982

got mavtv and smith today..no more hdnets booo lol..also no guide data on them yet on 8300hdc


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16536203
> 
> 
> Done! Have a ticket number in hand. Also indicated 483 was CNN HD. He did note this was initially reported this morning (Hook!) I'd never called TiVo CS before, they seemed fast and efficient and knew what they were takling about (yeah, I'm lookin' at you TW!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He did say it might take 5-7 days for the changes to go through...



Thanks for the back up, Ed I missed CNN on 483. I missed that one on the list of new channels, didn't even search for it myself. Will take a look at that in a few minutes.


----------



## schandorsky

I just had the TW cable guy at my home(low signal, every time the temperature goes over 75 degrees I lost 3 or 4 HD channels.

But anyway I ask him about the SDV in the Amherst/Elyria area. He said that they had to switch out all the Motorola boxes in the area and they were shooting for the end of June.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16536369
> 
> 
> got mavtv and smith today..no more hdnets booo lol..also no guide data on them yet on 8300hdc



Yeah, I saw they were on the guide with no data on the 4250. Those appear to be replacements for the upper tier as I got a "contact customer service" for these channels message on the 4250.


----------



## nickdawg

I still have grid/banner ID "HDNET", "HDNMV" on 471 and 472. However, 471 now has a "Smithsonian HD" logo in the corner and I saw a "MAV TV" commercial on 472. Now it looks like TWC will torture us by showing us what we _could_ be watching on HD NET/Movies.


----------



## nickdawg

Hey Hookbill, are you still getting UHD as a part of the Basic Tier or did they move it to the HDTV Tier, where it belongs?


*But really, it belongs in the basic tier so I can dump the HD Tier with the crappy new channels.


----------



## WilliamR

I checked, I have all the new HD channels including that Mav channel. Cool stuff, keep em rolling in.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16537861
> 
> 
> I checked, I have all the new HD channels including that Mav channel. Cool stuff, keep em rolling in.



Just wait, we are now only 18 days away from 6 more channels. On June 15: ESPNU, Speed, Versus, Travel Channel, Lifetime Movie, AMC.


Now I want to know where This TV is? According to the same HD page, This TV was supposed to be added on May 15 in areas with WUAB.


----------



## nickdawg

EDIT: On box, I now have "SMTHD" and "MAVHD" on 471 and 472, but with no guide data.


----------



## subavision212

just for the sake of us lurkers and infrequent posters AND technically challenged HD lovers, do we need to do anything special to make sure these channels STAY in our lineup? I started seeing the new channels last night (boy, does the MLB baseball HD station look awesome on my new panasonic plasma) and was just wondering if we have to save them or anything. thanks for the help. by the way, no 471 or 472 and FXHD is only on for a moment then says I have to call about receiving this channel. oh well.


----------



## tjs70

Disappointed. Lose HDNet and HDNet Movies and we still have not gotten any of the new channels. When will TWC bring HD to the City. Have 3 tuning adapters doing absolutely nothing. Called Customer Care tonight and they have no idea what SDV even is let alone whether we are supposed to receive the channels or not. Rebooted two boxes and Three Tivos and nothing.


----------



## subavision212

one other interesting thing. I just bought a new 32 LCD HDTV for my bedroom and set it up yesterday. just auto programmed it (basic cable, no box, just cable straight into tv) and tonight I have four local HD stations (8.1, 19.1, 43.1, 49.1) playing on it, plus 43.2 THIS TV. not sure if TWC is running some special I hadn't heard about but what makes it strange is that these channels do not show up on my HDTV in the living room, even after I tried auto programming it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16537027
> 
> 
> Hey Hookbill, are you still getting UHD as a part of the Basic Tier or did they move it to the HDTV Tier, where it belongs?
> 
> 
> *But really, it belongs in the basic tier so I can dump the HD Tier with the crappy new channels.



Guess what? They took Universal away from me. Oh well I never look at it anyway.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16539045
> 
> 
> Guess what? They took Universal away from me. Oh well I never look at it anyway.



GOOD! At least now TWC is being FAIR.


But seriously, I wish TWC would move it to Basic Tier for EVERYONE. Since this channel has advertisements, there's no reason why it should be a PAY channel. If they did, I'd probably dump the HDTV Tier. Haven't had a chance to look at the "new" channels SMTHD and MAVHD, but I assume they suck. Still no guide data. The 4250 still tells me hwhat's on HDNET and HDNMV. Which is a motherf---ing shame, since _Big Fish_ is on HDNET Movies tonight and when I tune the channels I get f---ing MAV HD.
























Crime Warner Cable: The Power To Screw YOU


BTW, did you see that I downgraded the "fail" of SDV today?


----------



## Moneo

Yep. No positive changes here. HDNets gone, Smithsonian and Mav in. I'll give them a call tomorrow to cancel the HD tier and complain a bit. Once the NBA postseason is over I can cancel cable altogether and probably not feel too bad about it.


----------



## Tim Lones

I have yet to get CNN HD 483 and Fox HD 485-I have the "call to receive channel message, though as far as I know, I have the HD package..


----------



## hookbill

I had a few minutes this morning so I decided to see what nickdawg was gripping about with CNN HD. He's right. It's SD surrounded by some fancy bars that have weather info when I saw it. Commercials are in glorious HD.










I can remember a time in this forum when people were complaining about commercials *not* being in HD.










I also looked, with great trepidation, at FOX NEWS and they actually had HD going on, although there was a lot of mixed SD with that. Good job of mixing the two, I felt. Problem is I'll never look at it since FOX is so unfair and unbalanced.


Why not MSNBC instead of CNBC? Just my opinion, I'd rather see another shot at decent news then a bunch of financial mumble jumble 1/2 of which I don't understand.


Animal Planet I looked at yesterday and that was gorgeous. They should have more shows about parrots however. Does anybody really care about dogs? Oh, you guys do. Sorry.










SDV in general looked pretty good, I'm not a videophile but it may have some effect on the quality of what I was seeing while watching the Dodgers, the team with the best record in baseball, on MLB Extra Innings. Or maybe it was the weather, lots of break up and sound drop offs but it seemed to be happening during thunderstorm. I don't know if it's related. Most of the game was good and of course the Dodgers won.


And I can't leave without letting everyone know that for what I believe is the first time in 10 years FOX is actually going to show the Dodgers in this area on Saturday against the Cubs. After watching the Tribe all season, tune in you will get to see a quality baseball team in HD. Am I rubbing it in? You bet I am.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16539153
> 
> 
> Still no guide data. The 4250 still tells me hwhat's on HDNET and HDNMV. Which is a motherf---ing shame, since _Big Fish_ is on HDNET Movies tonight and when I tune the channels I get f---ing MAV HD.



Now I do have guide data for those two stations on my TiVo. But I already unchecked the box on one of my TiVos for those stations and will do the same with the other. I need guide data for the channels I receive.


I also noticed that there were other errors in Tribune Medias guide but hey, it's on demand channels so I don't care.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16536386
> 
> 
> I just had the TW cable guy at my home(low signal, every time the temperature goes over 75 degrees I lost 3 or 4 HD channels.
> 
> But anyway I ask him about the SDV in the Amherst/Elyria area. He said that they had to switch out all the Motorola boxes in the area and they were shooting for the end of June.




In Mentor we have MAVHD and SmithsonianHD in the old HDNet and HDNet Movies locations. My old Motorolla DVR box has up to date guide info for the new replacment channels but my bedroom SA4250 does not have any guide data as of last night. If it is not there when I get home this evening I will reboot the reciever.


Schandorsky,

I assume we will get get the SDV conversion at the same time since we are in the same old Comcast boat. If they are planning on replacing the Motorolla boxes I would guess Motorolla box users should be recieving some sort of letter about this. I have been planning to swap my Motorolla DVR box out anyways since its been showing a stuttering image on various channels on and off. My SA4250 does not have this stuttering problem and its on a longer cable run so I am assuming its not the signal.


ray


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16540263
> 
> 
> I also looked, with great trepidation, at FOX NEWS and they actually had HD going on, although there was a lot of mixed SD with that. Good job of mixing the two, I felt. Problem is I'll never look at it since FOX is so unfair and unbalanced.
> 
> 
> Why not MSNBC instead of CNBC? Just my opinion, I'd rather see another shot at decent news then a bunch of financial mumble jumble 1/2 of which I don't understand.



Hookbill, I think your politics are showing.










As far as MSNBC goes, according to the Nielsen ratings they are ranked 24th among basic cable channels. By comparison Fox News is ranked 2nd.









http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/tic...331&id=9746020


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16540554
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I think your politics are showing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as MSNBC goes, according to the Nielsen ratings they are ranked 24th among basic cable channels. By comparison Fox News is ranked 2nd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/tic...331&id=9746020



Sorry about the political comment.


I did give them credit for their broadcast pq.


And ratings don't always tell the real story. I'd like to know the demographics of those Neilsen ratings. I'll bet that would tell a story in itself.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16540551
> 
> 
> Schandorsky,
> 
> I assume we will get get the SDV conversion at the same time since we are in the same old Comcast boat. If they are planning on replacing the Motorolla boxes I would guess Motorolla box users should be recieving some sort of letter about this. I have been planning to swap my Motorolla DVR box out anyways since its been showing a stuttering image on various channels on and off. My SA4250 does not have this stuttering problem and its on a longer cable run so I am assuming its not the signal.
> 
> 
> ray



If I were in the old Comcast area I'd switch my box. You're going to have to anyway eventually.


----------



## dleising

If anyone else noticed I think the WJW-8 feed to TWC is back to being a straight digital simulcast. Noticed the 8-1 bug being cut off last night watching Seinfeld.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16540551
> 
> 
> In Mentor we have MAVHD and SmithsonianHD in the old HDNet and HDNet Movies locations. My old Motorolla DVR box has up to date guide info for the new replacment channels but my bedroom SA4250 does not have any guide data as of last night. If it is not there when I get home this evening I will reboot the reciever.
> 
> 
> Schandorsky,
> 
> I assume we will get get the SDV conversion at the same time since we are in the same old Comcast boat. If they are planning on replacing the Motorolla boxes I would guess Motorolla box users should be recieving some sort of letter about this. I have been planning to swap my Motorolla DVR box out anyways since its been showing a stuttering image on various channels on and off. My SA4250 does not have this stuttering problem and its on a longer cable run so I am assuming its not the signal.
> 
> 
> ray



I got the update info for MAVHD and Smithsonian this morning on my 4250 box.


Yes we are in the same area (Old Comcast) Which include Amherst, Amherst Twp, Avon, Avonlake, Bay Village, Carlisle Twp, Concord, Eastlake, Eaton Twp, Elyria, Elyria Twp, Fairport Harbor,Grand River, Lakeline, Mentor, New Russia Twp, North Ridgeville, Painsville, South Amherst, Timberlake, Wickcliffe, Willoughby, and Willoughby Hills.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16540551
> 
> 
> I have been planning to swap my Motorolla DVR box out anyways since its been showing a stuttering image on various channels on and off. My SA4250 does not have this stuttering problem and its on a longer cable run so I am assuming its not the signal.
> 
> 
> ray



Ray, My SA8300HD was doing the stuttering thing too off and on for weeks. Was ready to exchange it then decided to reboot it. Now it appears to be fine for two days now. Very steady pic. You may want to try this first. As always, YMMV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mobgre* /forum/post/16542142
> 
> 
> Ray, My SA8300HD was doing the stuttering thing too off and on for weeks. Was ready to exchange it then decided to reboot it. Now it appears to be fine for two days now. Very steady pic. You may want to try this first. As always, YMMV.



The point is however that Rbuchina he has a moto box, not an SA 8300. Now maybe rebooting his moto will help, I don't know but it's best just to get a new SA box and get on the TW bandwagon. I believe they are going to have to do that eventually anyway.


----------



## mobgre




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16542186
> 
> 
> The point is however that Rbuchina he has a moto box, not an SA 8300. Now maybe rebooting his moto will help, I don't know but it's best just to get a new SA box and get on the TW bandwagon. I believe they are going to have to do that eventually anyway.



Yeah, your probably right.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16542186
> 
> 
> The point is however that Rbuchina he has a moto box, not an SA 8300. Now maybe rebooting his moto will help, I don't know but it's best just to get a new SA box and get on the TW bandwagon. I believe they are going to have to do that eventually anyway.



Has anyone been able to program the SA 8300 box to do a 30 second skip? This is the one thing I'll miss the most if I have to trade in my Moto box for an SA. Still no SVA on the Elyria (Old Comcast) system. Also, no matter how many times I call TWC for a hit on my Tivo S3, I can't get the first wave of new HD chans that came around March 31, like Sci Fi, Disney, and USA. They are all listed in the Tivo guide with Info, but no picture or sound. The Moto box has them, and they all work fine.


Any ideas?


Ben Music


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16540640
> 
> 
> Sorry about the political comment.
> 
> 
> I did give them credit for their broadcast pq.
> 
> 
> And ratings don't always tell the real story. I'd like to know the demographics of those Neilsen ratings. I'll bet that would tell a story in itself.



Ahhh, who cares!! I never pay attention to ratings. Ratings are not a good indicator of quality. More people watch American Idol than a documentary on PBS, but does that mean American Idol is automatically the better program because more people watch it?


In the three days I've had these new channels, I've watched FAUX News for a total of 30 seconds. Which is more than last month. It's tacky, flashy obnoxious trash. It gets ratings because braindead dolts buy into their crappy slogans(one of which is the total opposite of how the channel really is) and because there are bright colors and 'hot' chicks. The American public is surprisingly dumb, and it shows in the television shows we have today, REALITY SHOWS!! Can anyone say Wipeout(jumping on big red balls), I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out of Here, So You Think You Can Dance.










Ahhhhh, I love a good rant!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16540873
> 
> 
> If anyone else noticed I think the WJW-8 feed to TWC is back to being a straight digital simulcast. Noticed the 8-1 bug being cut off last night watching Seinfeld.



Yes. These local stations must have their heads up their butts, because I was watching the ABC World News on the kitchen TV and I noticed that when the "Power of 5" weather crawl came on, it was cropped off. The map itself was almost completely off screen, thanks to CRT overscan and the bug on the right said "Pow". Also, the ABC network bug on shows that are HD now says "ab" or just "a" on the old set in my bedroom.


I've seen the same thing with the totally cut off weather map on WOIO as well as a legal ID/bug flirting with the edge of the screen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16543358
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to program the SA 8300 box to do a 30 second skip? This is the one thing I'll miss the most if I have to trade in my Moto box for an SA. Still no SVA on the Elyria (Old Comcast) system. Also, no matter how many times I call TWC for a hit on my Tivo S3, I can't get the first wave of new HD chans that came around March 31, like Sci Fi, Disney, and USA. They are all listed in the Tivo guide with Info, but no picture or sound. The Moto box has them, and they all work fine.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



You should at least have the first wave, everybody got that.


The only thing you can do is have them send a truck out. Something is terribly wrong if you're not getting those channels.


----------



## nickdawg

I have another oddity to add to the discussion here. Today I noticed the "480i" light was on the front of my SA 4250. Which is odd because I never, ever, ever, ever, ever use 480i, as that output makes the picture look horrible. So I turn on the TV set and there is a TWC screensaver with the time on screen. Pushing a button dismisses that and I find a "To receive this channel, call Customer Care" message on the screen. Except the channel was WEWHD 405. I go up a few more channels and it is on WBNXHD 407 too. It's on every channel. The box rebooted itself last night, and now it says that. Odd.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16544595
> 
> 
> I have another oddity to add to the discussion here. Today I noticed the "480i" light was on the front of my SA 4250. Which is odd because I never, ever, ever, ever, ever use 480i, as that output makes the picture look horrible. So I turn on the TV set and there is a TWC screensaver with the time on screen. Pushing a button dismisses that and I find a "To receive this channel, call Customer Care" message on the screen. Except the channel was WEWHD 405. I go up a few more channels and it is on WBNXHD 407 too. It's on every channel. The box rebooted itself last night, and now it says that. Odd.



Yes it is odd. And it sounds to me like a cable card issue, which you're not suppose to have.


Phone it in and have them hit your box nickdawg. That should clear it up.


----------



## Adam P

Still can't get that damn green light to stop flashing. Oh well...got a truck roll coming in the morning. I just hope they can get it working.


----------



## mnowlin

Heh - my green light has been flashing for the last week, just haven't had time to work on it. The weird bit is I was able to get USAHD the other day, even though the light was flashing.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16540263
> 
> 
> Does anybody really care about dogs? Oh, you guys do. Sorry.



That's funny, I don't remember buying my dog a new stuffed parrot. Where did these feathers come from? Wait a minute......


----------



## BudgetPlan1

Mentor/Kirtland area, old Aldelphia customer out of Concord (I'm guessing).


Noticed Smithsonian and MAV on the guide last night, still none of the most recent batch of HD channels though.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16534019
> 
> 
> Apparently I am receiving all the new channels with the exception of Mav & Smith. I assume you guys are receiving those.
> 
> 
> So SDV has arrived, and it's looking good (so far). Thanks to Cathode Kid for the tip off on the exact day.



I wish it was "looking good" here. I've got tons of new channels showing up, but they don't actually "show up". When I try to tune (almost) any of the new channels, the box tells me "This channel is currently not available. Please try again later." I get that message on 438, 443, and every channel from 450-478 except 456, 473, and 476.


On the other hand, suddenly the VOD channels actually have content available. That's never happened before.


Anyway, I'm not impressed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16546659
> 
> 
> Heh - my green light has been flashing for the last week, just haven't had time to work on it. The weird bit is I was able to get USAHD the other day, even though the light was flashing.



Try just unplugging the tuner adapter and then plugging it back in after 30 seconds. After you plug it back in unplug the USB and plug that back in. It should blink a little then get solid.


If it doesn't, you have a bad tuner adapter. Get it replaced.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16547258
> 
> 
> I wish it was "looking good" here. I've got tons of new channels showing up, but they don't actually "show up". When I try to tune (almost) any of the new channels, the box tells me "This channel is currently not available. Please try again later." I get that message on 438, 443, and every channel from 450-478 except 456, 473, and 476.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, suddenly the VOD channels actually have content available. That's never happened before.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not impressed.



I'm pretty certain you and I are on the same head end. And my thoughts of the SA 8300 are more then well documented.










I'm thinking if I can get the channels with my TiVo you should be able to with your SA 8300. Sounds like you should get a truck roll, or call customer service and see what they can do for you. Strange that your On Demand (And I saw a whole bunch of those that seemed to be added) works but the HD channels arn't.


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16547258
> 
> 
> I wish it was "looking good" here. I've got tons of new channels showing up, but they don't actually "show up". When I try to tune (almost) any of the new channels, the box tells me "This channel is currently not available. Please try again later." I get that message on 438, 443, and every channel from 450-478 except 456, 473, and 476.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, suddenly the VOD channels actually have content available. That's never happened before.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not impressed.



dont worry..a lot of us had the same problem when we first got all the new hd but after a week or so the problems went away..just give it a little time


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16548621
> 
> 
> dont worry..a lot of us had the same problem when we first got all the new hd but after a week or so the problems went away..just give it a little time



Thanks, guys. At this point, I don't mind giving it some time. I don't have time right now to screw around with T/W anyway, so I won't be calling them any time soon. And there's nothing on TV that I want to watch right now anyway. (Except maybe the Cavs game tomorrow.) If the situation doesn't change, I'll eventually call them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16549260
> 
> 
> Thanks, guys. At this point, I don't mind giving it some time. I don't have time right now to screw around with T/W anyway, so I won't be calling them any time soon. And there's nothing on TV that I want to watch right now anyway. (Except maybe the Cavs game tomorrow.) If the situation doesn't change, I'll eventually call them.



When I read things like this it makes me realize just how impatient I am. I'd be screaming at TW. But that's me. Good luck Jim, hope it fixes itself.


----------



## GregF2

TW came yesterday and installed new SA 8300HDC boxes to replace our older Motorola boxes. So far, I think I prefer the older Motorola box tv guide, unless I just have not figured out the SA 8300HDC's guide. On the Motorola guide, movies, sports, kids shows were blocked off in different colors making them easy to identify. On the SA guide they are all the same color. Is there a way to change this?


Also, in the Motorola guide you could go to categories, choose kids shows and it would bring the guide up with all the kids shows currently playing. The SA box partially has this function, but it is not as clean looking and harder to get too.


So, am is there anything I can do to improve the above? They were going to swap a Samsung box instead, but the tech forgot to bring that one. But he said the software would be exactly the same.


Thanks for the help.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16544015
> 
> 
> Ahhh, who cares!! I never pay attention to ratings. Ratings are not a good indicator of quality. More people watch American Idol than a documentary on PBS, but does that mean American Idol is automatically the better program because more people watch it?
> 
> 
> In the three days I've had these new channels, I've watched FAUX News for a total of 30 seconds. Which is more than last month. It's tacky, flashy obnoxious trash. It gets ratings because braindead dolts buy into their crappy slogans(one of which is the total opposite of how the channel really is) and because there are bright colors and 'hot' chicks. The American public is surprisingly dumb, and it shows in the television shows we have today, REALITY SHOWS!! Can anyone say Wipeout(jumping on big red balls), I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out of Here, So You Think You Can Dance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhhh, I love a good rant!




Yea Nickdawg. You are right and the rest of America is wrong. Sounds like the guy that thought he was Napoleon. Your rant loses a lot though since you've mentioned you like msnbc.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16553317
> 
> 
> Yea Nickdawg. You are right and the rest of America is wrong. Sounds like the guy that thought he was Napoleon. Your rant loses a lot though since you've mentioned you like msnbc.



Wow, that's a pretty bad comeback to a good argument nickdawg made. I guess you like to "stay the coarse and keep beating that dead old horse." Like those guys on FOX News.


And your mention of MSNBC, doesn't that show your politics?


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16553381
> 
> 
> Wow, that's a pretty bad comeback to a good argument nickdawg made. I guess you like to "stay the coarse and keep beating that dead old horse." Like those guys on FOX News.
> 
> 
> And your mention of MSNBC, doesn't that show your politics?



Yea, sorry I couldn't resist. But my point was it's TV. It's all about entertainment. Nickdawg was ragging on what others find entertaining but suggesting what he found as entertaining was somehow superior.


Maybe we should just move on and leave this political junk. Nothing good will come out of it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16553455
> 
> 
> Yea, sorry I couldn't resist. But my point was it's TV. It's all about entertainment. Nickdawg was ragging on what others find entertaining but suggesting what he found as entertaining was somehow superior.
> 
> 
> Maybe we should just move on and leave this political junk. Nothing good will come out of it.



Well, from an HD standpoint IMHO Fox wins over CNN. I may not like the politics but taking that out and staying on track they do have more HD.


My real point for mentioning MSNBC was I simply want to see what they provide as HD content. You can call a station HD all you want but if they don't have HD content then it's just upgraded SD, be it news, entertainment, etc.


As far as nickdawg acting superior, hey, I'm the king of that. I look down at anyone who even thinks at looking at American Idol.







I'm a real snob when it comes to most reality shows.


----------



## ed1202

Hook, hook, hook... first dogs, now American Idol...










BTW... Everytime the Tivo calls in for an update I "lose" the latest HD channels from my guide. I have to go back into settings each time and re-add them as channels I receive. Is the same thing happening to you? I assume it's because we're not getting guide data for them yet. It's getting annoying to do this every other day...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16553842
> 
> 
> Hook, hook, hook... first dogs, now American Idol...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW... Everytime the Tivo calls in for an update I "lose" the latest HD channels from my guide. I have to go back into settings each time and re-add them as channels I receive. Is the same thing happening to you? I assume it's because we're not getting guide data for them yet. It's getting annoying to do this every other day...



Not all the channels but some of them, yes I think so but I didn't realize it until your post.


But it's not just HD channels. I noticed all my MLB channels were unchecked the other day. And I thought I checked CNN, matter of fact I'm sure I did and listed it as a favorite but it was unchecked on my S3 only. On my HD TiVo everything is fine.


I'll have it do an update again and get back to you. Who knows, maybe the new guide is available now?


----------



## hookbill

Ed, I did a check on my S3 and it did a call in last night around 3:30 am. No channels are missing that I had checked off.


Maybe it was a random occurrence.


----------



## berenga

Sorry in advance if this has been asked before as it has been a while since I have posted

here. Does anyone know if there is any HD DVR out in the market (either still available or discontinued) other than the SONY DHG-HDD500 that is capable of receiving guide info for clear QAM channels? I am aware that no TIVO is capable of doing this if I am not mistaken.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/16553288
> 
> 
> TW came yesterday and installed new SA 8300HDC boxes to replace our older Motorola boxes. So far, I think I prefer the older Motorola box tv guide, unless I just have not figured out the SA 8300HDC's guide. On the Motorola guide, movies, sports, kids shows were blocked off in different colors making them easy to identify. On the SA guide they are all the same color. Is there a way to change this?
> 
> _Also, in the Motorola guide you could go to categories, choose kids shows and it would bring the guide up with all the kids shows currently playing. The SA box partially has this function, but it is not as clean looking and harder to get too._
> 
> 
> So, am is there anything I can do to improve the above? They were going to swap a Samsung box instead, but the tech forgot to bring that one. But he said the software would be exactly the same.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.



If you press the "A" button on the remote, it brings up the Access Menu. Under this menu, you can find shows that are currently on by categories: HDTV, Sports and Kids. Also the 8300HDC has improved search features by pressing the "B" button.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rick490* /forum/post/16553455
> 
> 
> Yea, sorry I couldn't resist. But my point was it's TV. It's all about entertainment. Nickdawg was ragging on what others find entertaining but suggesting what he found as entertaining was somehow superior.
> 
> 
> Maybe we should just move on and leave this political junk. Nothing good will come out of it.



No, it's not what *I* think is entertaining. It is what is better because it is educational. It's hard to argue that the show that gave us Sanjaya, William Hung and Clay Aiken is "better" than anything. And maybe if more Americans turned off the reality show crap and LEARNED something or READ a book, they would also turn off FAUX because they realize they were being duped by biased "reporters".



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16553493
> 
> 
> Well, from an HD standpoint IMHO Fox wins over CNN. I may not like the politics but taking that out and staying on track they do have more HD.



Well, luckily we don't judge the quality of a program based on HD alone. I've watched FAUX HD for a total of 45 seconds. I've grown to love the big red HD on the sides of CNN. It's cool!











> Quote:
> My real point for mentioning MSNBC was I simply want to see what they provide as HD content. You can call a station HD all you want but if they don't have HD content then it's just upgraded SD, be it news, entertainment, etc.



I think MSNBC will have more HD. NBC News already broadcasts in HD for all of their shows except Dateline and Meet the Press. Nightly News and Today have many filed cameras in HD and most of the studios are upgraded. I'd expect to see the evening shows as well as the newsroom coverage in the afternoon in HD. Plus many of the documentaries they show on weekends are 16:9, probably SD, but still 16:9. I think the mistake NBC made was putting CNBC in HD before MSNBC. CNBC is a pointless niche channel, but MSNBC could have beaten the pants off CNN and FAUX because FAUX didn't launch until May 2008 and CNN was in the fall of 2007.



> Quote:
> As far as nickdawg acting superior, hey, I'm the king of that. I look down at anyone who even thinks at looking at American Idol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a real snob when it comes to most reality shows.



I agree. I hate reality TV. Defending FAUX and reality TV are two things that really make an argument laughable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/16555366
> 
> 
> Sorry in advance if this has been asked before as it has been a while since I have posted
> 
> here. Does anyone know if there is any HD DVR out in the market (either still available or discontinued) other than the SONY DHG-HDD500 that is capable of receiving guide info for clear QAM channels? I am aware that no TIVO is capable of doing this if I am not mistaken.



If there is another DVR that does that it wouldn't do you much good. The reason I say that is none of TW's SDV channels will appear in the clear, which means you will only get the locals. TW is famous for moving things around on clear in the qam as well so I don't know how much good it would do for you.


You're better off either settling for the SA 8300 HDC or purchasing the TiVo. Sorry.


----------



## Vchat20

I have to agree with hookbill. Especially if you live in this area too. TWC has pretty much taken all but the locals off Clear QAM and even half the locals have their PSIP data stripped.


Basically all that I have seen come up on my set outside of tons of blank/encrypted QAMs are all the local channels (3, 5, 19, 21, 27, 33, 45/49, WBNX, the cleveland PBS station on the west side whom I forget their callsign, and subchannels for those that have their PSIP data intact) and a few non-descript garbage channels mostly being the PPV/Ondemand previews loops. I don't even pick up the music choice channels anymore let alone anything else decent.


The only plus side to going the Clear QAM route is if you wanted the OTA channels but didn't want the fuss of having an antenna that could pick it all up. Though you guys up in cleveland I don't think get the youngstown market so even a meager antenna would pick up all you could get anyway. YMMV of course.


----------



## berenga

Thanks for the responses. It doesn't matter that TW moves the clear QAM channels around. The SONY has the ability to remap the digital display HD local channels with their guide data to any QAM channel. Although I can get a cablecard, I use my units without a cablecard and the cable hooked directly into my HD DVR unit, and I am really only interested in the HD locals so SDV chanels don't affect me. I have been looking for another unit for another family member that can perform the same way, as the SONYs are becoming increasingly difficult to find.


----------



## berenga

I should have added that the data I get is not PSIP but the TVGOSG program guide, so even though yes, PSIP data might be stripped on locals, it doesn't affect the free electronic program guide my units receive. Thanks again.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, like you said: These units are becoming extremely hard to come by as, I assume, they are long discontinued and only lasting on resale.


There really are no other units that have this kind of functionality out there. Closest thing are VCR-like boxes that you just set a specific channel/QAM for a desired time and it records to whatever medium it is capable of. Beyond that, either a Tivo or TWC's own boxes and subscribing to digital cable service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16555894
> 
> 
> Well, like you said: These units are becoming extremely hard to come by as, I assume, they are long discontinued and only lasting on resale.
> 
> 
> There really are no other units that have this kind of functionality out there. Closest thing are VCR-like boxes that you just set a specific channel/QAM for a desired time and it records to whatever medium it is capable of. Beyond that, either a Tivo or TWC's own boxes and subscribing to digital cable service.



I could have sworn there was another DVR out there this year. I remember posting a link about it. I think it was a Sammy and not the TW one.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16556099
> 
> 
> I could have sworn there was another DVR out there this year. I remember posting a link about it. I think it was a Sammy and not the TW one.



No. The Sammy- SMT 3090 is a TWC owned box. The only difference is that it is not a SA box, but another company's OCAP box that can run ODN.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16556307
> 
> 
> No. The Sammy- SMT 3090 is a TWC owned box. The only difference is that it is not a SA box, but another company's OCAP box that can run ODN.



I might have the brand wrong but I distinctly remember posting a link for an alternative DVR the TiVo that was new. It had nice features and no service charge. And it was HD capable.


----------



## nickdawg

There are other DVRs, but they are for OTA only. I know there is a Dish DVR for OTA.


And regardless if there is another DVR, it is worthless unless it is a Tivo. AFAIK, the tuning adapters only work with Tivos.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16556464
> 
> 
> There are other DVRs, but they are for OTA only. I know there is a Dish DVR for OTA.
> 
> 
> And regardless if there is another DVR, it is worthless unless it is a Tivo. AFAIK, the tuning adapters only work with Tivos.



If the DVR hardware is 2 way capable a tuner adapter would not be necessary.


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/16527901
> 
> 
> Orange - Have found everything but WKYC 3-1. There is a 480i version at 91-3 but still have not found the HD version of channel 3 (even after numerous resets and rescans). I thought TWC was required to supply a clear QAM version of all the locals?



Same issue here in N. Canton. WKYC hi def QAM is MIA. I have hi def QAM for WEWS (5-1), WJW (8-1), WOIO (19-1), WUAB (43-1) and WNEO (49-1). Numerous rescans on my Vizio VW37L and nothing. Was too lazy to get out the antenna last night so I had to watch Jay's farewell in SD. Bummer.


----------



## hookbill

I'm just going to use some common sense here. TW offers free HD with digital service. Why do you think your entitled to HD locals that the rest of us pay for? TW is only required to give you local channels. They are not required to allow you to bypass paying for digital just because you have QAM.


Now having said that apparently Vchat20 can receive local HD in the clear. He also pays for digital service. I don't think that has anything to do with why he receives it. I can say since you don't pay for digital I'm glad you can't find it because IMHO its not fair to the rest of us who do pay for digital.


I want you guys to notice I'm not accusing you of stealing. I'm simply giving an opinion.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16557145
> 
> 
> I'm just going to use some common sense here. TW offers free HD with digital service. Why do you think your entitled to HD locals that the rest of us pay for? TW is only required to give you local channels. They are not required to allow you to bypass paying for digital just because you have QAM.
> 
> 
> Now having said that apparently Vchat20 can receive local HD in the clear. He also pays for digital service. I don't think that has anything to do with why he receives it. I can say since you don't pay for digital I'm glad you can't find it because IMHO its not fair to the rest of us who do pay for digital.
> 
> 
> I want you guys to notice I'm not accusing you of stealing. I'm simply giving an opinion.



Careful Hookdog! Or you might awaken a certain pair of Clever Trousers who will talk your ear off about why he thinks he is entitled to get USAHD without paying for a box/higher service.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16556893
> 
> 
> Same issue here in N. Canton. WKYC hi def QAM is MIA. I have hi def QAM for WEWS (5-1), WJW (8-1), WOIO (19-1), WUAB (43-1) and WNEO (49-1). Numerous rescans on my Vizio VW37L and nothing. Was too lazy to get out the antenna last night so I had to watch Jay's farewell in SD. Bummer.



I noticed the same thing and just thought it was my set. It just randomly disappeared. I haven't checked though to see if it came in on the box (though I'd hope it would still be there? oO). I don't even get digital SD's in the clear so the only other option is the analog feed on position 3 here.


----------



## Vchat20

I really do think TW would do good if they did something like kill off all the analogs and put their digital SD versions in the clear with intact PSIP data (well, that'd probably be asking a bit much. But it'd be a plus). That way those who have basic service can pull it in on QAM capable sets (most digital OTA sets can AFAIK and they've been mandatorily manufactured over the past couple years for this transition crap) and then provide basic dumbed down boxes for everyone else either free or like $.50/mo per or something.


Take advantage of the tons of sets out there already that can tune in crystal clear digital channels and make it a huge marketing standpoint. 'CRYSTAL CLEAR DIGITAL WITHOUT THE BOX!' Hell, if I knew they went this route, I'd HAPPILY take the basic cable connected tv's in my house and pay a small premium to get newer tv's capable. (though, tbh, this is exactly what TWC would want to avoid and would rather part you with more money paying for their equipment. >>)


Just curious. Anyone who has ever leased an OOOOOLD basic cable converter from TWC, do you recall what the lease fee was monthly for it? Unfortunately the last time that was for me was over a decade ago. x.x


----------



## ErieMarty

to be Added ??


Any idea whats left to be added ??? at the end of June or July and August.


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16557145
> 
> 
> I'm just going to use some common sense here. TW offers free HD with digital service. Why do you think your entitled to HD locals that the rest of us pay for? TW is only required to give you local channels. They are not required to allow you to bypass paying for digital just because you have QAM.
> 
> 
> Now having said that apparently Vchat20 can receive local HD in the clear. He also pays for digital service. I don't think that has anything to do with why he receives it. I can say since you don't pay for digital I'm glad you can't find it because IMHO its not fair to the rest of us who do pay for digital.
> 
> 
> I want you guys to notice I'm not accusing you of stealing. I'm simply giving an opinion.



Why would I pay for something I can get free OTA?!! It was nice to have it on my QAM so I could avoid having to go through the laborious, time-consuming and incredibly dangerous task of using my finger to move the switch on my A/B selector to "antenna."










Glad you like paying for it. Me? I think 99% of what TWC shoves through copper is worthless dreck... with commercials. I'll pass on paying for digital stuff-ever. If all the over compressed, local QAM disappeared tomorrow I'd be a bit bummed-but no where near bummed enough to consider devoting any more of my budget into paying TWC another dime.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16558392
> 
> 
> Why would I pay for something I can get free OTA?!! It was nice to have it on my QAM so I could avoid having to go through the laborious, time-consuming and incredibly dangerous task of using my finger to move the switch on my A/B selector to "antenna."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you like paying for it. Me? I think 99% of what TWC shoves through copper is worthless dreck... with commercials. I'll pass on paying for digital stuff-ever. If all the over compressed, local QAM disappeared tomorrow I'd be a bit bummed-but no where near bummed enough to consider devoting any more of my budget into paying TWC another dime.



But you see you are in an area where you can receive it OTA. I am not, I would have to purchase an expensive antenna and quite honestly I don't want to put one on my roof. I'm in a heavily wooded area and reception is difficult.


Nobody said I liked paying for anything, I'm simply pointing out that there should be no expectation of QAM for free even for local HD. TW doesn't have to provide it for anyone. All they really need to provide is SD locals. And I feel it's not fair for people who have QAM to be able to access something that the majority of us pay for. So I'm glad you're having issues getting the QAM mapped channels. I'm also glad you have an antenna that you can switch to. I don't want to see you lose out on free HD. And you're absolutely correct, if you don't want the additional HD channels then don't pay a dime more. Just rely on your antenna for your HD channels. Not TW.


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16558446
> 
> 
> ... I'm simply pointing out that there should be no expectation of QAM for free even for local HD. TW doesn't have to provide it for anyone. All they really need to provide is SD locals. And I feel it's not fair for people who have QAM to be able to access something that the majority of us pay for. So I'm glad you're having issues getting the QAM mapped channels. I'm also glad you have an antenna that you can switch to. I don't want to see you lose out on free HD. And you're absolutely correct, if you don't want the additional HD channels then don't pay a dime more. Just rely on your antenna for your HD channels. Not TW.



Hmmmm... I'm going to have to read FCC Sec. 76.630 and CFR Title 47, §76.901(a) a little more closely to determine what format (i.e. digital SD, 480p, etc), if any, is prescribed, but as far as I know they DO have to provide a QAM feed for locals.


As for being "glad" I'm having mapping issues, that's kinda red-ass. Am I "glad" you live in the sticks and can't get OTA? Nope. That would be rude of me to say.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16558502
> 
> 
> Hmmmm... I'm going to have to read FCC Sec. 76.630 and CFR Title 47, §76.901(a) a little more closely to determine what format (i.e. digital SD, 480p, etc), if any, is prescribed, but as far as I know they DO have to provide a QAM feed for locals.
> 
> 
> Please do. And if I'm wrong post the link so I can read it myself, I'll gladly retract any statement I made about you not being able to get HD with an apology





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16558502
> 
> 
> As for being "glad" I'm having mapping issues, that's kinda red-ass. Am I "glad" you live in the sticks and can't get OTA? Nope. That would be rude of me to say.



I could handle that. I don't think my saying what I said was rude as opposed to being a personal opinion. You may disagree with that if you chose, it may get you blood running a bit but nevertheless that is how I feel.


As I stated in previous paragraph show me I'm wrong about TWC having to give you HD in the clear and I'll apologize.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16558502
> 
> 
> Hmmmm... I'm going to have to read FCC Sec. 76.630 and CFR Title 47, §76.901(a) a little more closely to determine what format (i.e. digital SD, 480p, etc), if any, is prescribed, but as far as I know they DO have to provide a QAM feed for locals.
> 
> 
> As for being "glad" I'm having mapping issues, that's kinda red-ass. Am I "glad" you live in the sticks and can't get OTA? Nope. That would be rude of me to say.



If you are really going to look into the FCC rules & regs I'd be interested to know what it says as well. There seems to be a lot of confusion on what the cable co's must carry in regards to locals in HD via QAM. God knows I'm confused about it! But then I'm confused how to text from my phone.










I've heard some say they are only required to carry the locals in SD but throw the HD's out there cuz it's simpler or the cable co's are just as confused about the FCC regs as we are so they are covering their ass, others say they must carry what the broadcaster offers (i.e. if local ABC is broadcasting in 720p then the cable co must rebroadcast it in 720p).


Then there is the "must carry locals in analog" for the older sets out there, but then they are NOT obligated to carry the locals in analog if their entire cable distribution is all digital?? Or something like that.










As far as paying for locals in HD I guess it comes down to features. If you want program data, channel guides, channels that don't move around, etc... then you pay for it. That and not all TV's and boxes have QAM tuners so it becomes device specific and you must have/buy the proper equipment to get the "free" local HD's.


----------



## SKoprowski

Your point is useless Hooky:


Question:

If I have a cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or special HD set-top box to view HD programming?

Answer:

An HDTV with a built-in QAM tuner does not require a set-top box to receive the HD signals of over-the-air broadcast stations. To receive your favorite cable and premium channels in high-definition, you will need to lease from Time Warner Cable an HD set-top box, unless you have a CableCARD-equipped Tru2Way™ device or UDCP. Please note that some HD programming is delivered using Switched Digital Video (SDV), an interactive technology, and therefore cannot be accessed on a UDCP.


This is from TWC NE OH's website. You pay for cable- you get the OTA channels on QAM- end of story.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16558502
> 
> 
> Hmmmm... I'm going to have to read FCC Sec. 76.630 and CFR Title 47, §76.901(a) a little more closely to determine what format (i.e. digital SD, 480p, etc), if any, is prescribed, but as far as I know they DO have to provide a QAM feed for locals.
> 
> 
> As for being "glad" I'm having mapping issues, that's kinda red-ass. Am I "glad" you live in the sticks and can't get OTA? Nope. That would be rude of me to say.



Here in Amherst my wife's Toshiba(after a firmware upgrade) Can pickup NBC HD, UPN HD, OHIO CHANNEL, CBS HD, WVIZ WORLD, WVIZ HD, TBS HD, 3 WEATHER, FIRST ALERT WEATHER, FOX HD, ABC HD AND CW HD.


But on my Pioneer TV from the above list I can not pickup NBC HD or 3 Weather.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/16558918
> 
> 
> 
> Question:
> 
> If I have a cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or special HD set-top box to view HD programming?
> 
> Answer:
> 
> An HDTV with a built-in QAM tuner does not require a set-top box to receive the HD signals of over-the-air broadcast stations. To receive your favorite cable and premium channels in high-definition, you will need to lease from Time Warner Cable an HD set-top box, unless you have a CableCARD-equipped Tru2Way device or UDCP. Please note that some HD programming is delivered using Switched Digital Video (SDV), an interactive technology, and therefore cannot be accessed on a UDCP.
> 
> 
> This is from TWC NE OH's website. You pay for cable- you get the OTA channels on QAM- end of story.



That about sums it up. With cable, and subscribing to a basic or expanded package (non-digital) on my Sony TV and Sony HD DVR (both with QAM tuners)I can tune and record the aforementioned analog and all the local SD and HD digital passed through cable with a full TV Guide on screen guide (built in the HD DVR with no fee) for the QAM chanels remapped which for me is enough. Don't ever want to get a STB from TW.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/16559161
> 
> 
> That about sums it up. With cable, and subscribing to a basic or expanded package (non-digital) on my Sony TV and Sony HD DVR (both with QAM tuners)I can tune and record the aforementioned analog and all the local SD and HD digital passed through cable with a full TV Guide on screen guide (built in the HD DVR with no fee) for the QAM chanels remapped which for me is enough. Don't ever want to get a STB from TW.



The quote specifically states that you need cable cards. Cable cards mean purchasing their digital service as well.


If your just using QAM it may very well be that you might not be able to find it by remapping all the time. TW wants you to pay.


----------



## berenga

I have never had a problem finding the local QAM channels and for the most part they are the same as the OTA digital channels you would pick up with an antenna. As for electronic program guide data I have only had to remap the major locals once. After inputting my zip code in the Sony HD DVR, I choose the full digital lineup available for my area, as if I had a STB or cablecard and then remap the local digital data to QAM. Works well for me.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/16559799
> 
> 
> I have never had a problem finding the local QAM channels and for the most part they are the same as the OTA digital channels you would pick up with an antenna. As for electronic program guide data I have only had to remap the major locals once. After inputting my zip code in the Sony HD DVR, I choose the full digital lineup available for my area, as if I had a STB or cablecard and then remap the local digital data to QAM. Works well for me.



I presume Sony is using an internet based system for guide data and your two Sony devices are part of your home network?


If so, that is sweet and seems to be the direction the mfrs are headed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16559830
> 
> 
> I presume Sony is using an internet based system for guide data and your two Sony devices are part of your home network?
> 
> 
> If so, that is sweet and seems to be the direction the mfrs are headed.



Still need something for SDV unless the Sony hardware is 2 way capable.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16559870
> 
> 
> Still need something for SDV unless the Sony hardware is 2 way capable.



Yes, I'm just referring to the networking and online content aspects.

I suppose a proper cable card slot in the TV and/or DVR would would be needed for cable descrambling and SDV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16558392
> 
> 
> Why would I pay for something I can get free OTA?!! It was nice to have it on my QAM so I could avoid having to go through the laborious, time-consuming and incredibly dangerous task of using my finger to move the switch on my A/B selector to "antenna."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you like paying for it. Me? I think 99% of what TWC shoves through copper is worthless dreck... with commercials. I'll pass on paying for digital stuff-ever. If all the over compressed, local QAM disappeared tomorrow I'd be a bit bummed-but no where near bummed enough to consider devoting any more of my budget into paying TWC another dime.



Sounds like you are the perfect candidate for OTA. All the uncompresed HD you can want, without paying TWC or messing with them changing/dropping channels.

Cleveland, Ohio - OTA 


Now, to quote an old SNL skit: "buh-bye"!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16559946
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm just referring to the networking and online content aspects.
> 
> I suppose a proper cable card slot in the TV and/or DVR would would be needed for cable descrambling and SDV.



Nope, actually being two way has nothing to do with the cable card. It's the hardware that makes it two way, like tru2way devices although they use cable cards the hardware makes them 2 way.


Many people thought TiVo put out the S3 and TiVo HD with no thinking of SDV. I contend that the thought was always there to come up with something to make it compatible with SDV. It was however the cable companies desire to work with TiVo that produced the tuner adapter, thus making TiVo's one way hardware 2 way capable.


So if this Sony box we are talking about is 2 way capable it would have no problem or need for a tuner adapter. It would still need a cable card to get non QAM available channels to work.


I know there was an older Sony DVR that was made buy I don't think that was capable of HD. Maybe this is the same one and it is capable but it would not be able to do 2 way communication.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16560300
> 
> 
> Nope, actually being two way has nothing to do with the cable card. It's the hardware that makes it two way, like tru2way devices although they use cable cards the hardware makes them 2 way.....



Yes, hence why I said "I suppose a *proper* cable card *slot* in the TV and/or DVR ".


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16560300
> 
> 
> So if this Sony box we are talking about is 2 way capable it would have no problem or need for a tuner adapter. It would still need a cable card to get non QAM available channels to work.
> 
> 
> I know there was an older Sony DVR that was made buy I don't think that was capable of HD. Maybe this is the same one and it is capable but it would not be able to do 2 way communication.



It is not 2 way capable and cannot access SDV channels. The tuning adapter

that allows the TIVO to do this is not possible on the Sony Hi-Def DVR. I used to have a cablecard in it to get all the encrypted digital channels when I had digital service, but I knew that SDV would not work with this unit, so I gave up the cablecard and digital service just prior to implementation of SDV in the area and just use it now for digital Hi-def clear QAM channels through the cable.


My Sony DVR was and still is the only one Sony ever produced for the American market that was a HD DVR single tuner 500GB with cablecard slot and free TV Guide On-Screen Program guide. It came out prior to the TIVO S3 at the end of 2005. The interactive program guide was recently taken over by Macrovision which has continued with the free service.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16559830
> 
> 
> I presume Sony is using an internet based system for guide data and your two Sony devices are part of your home network?



The Sony HI-DEF DVR doesn't connect to a computer or the internet. It gets its TV listings through the cable according to zip code of locale. Different lineups are offered for the area, so I chose the fully loaded digital line up that TW offers in my area which has the same channels that the STB would have, and then remap the digital STB HI Def local channels with program info to the QAM equivalent.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/16560474
> 
> 
> The Sony HI-DEF DVR doesn't connect to a computer or the internet. It gets its TV listings through the cable according to zip code of locale. Different lineups are offered for the area, so I chose the fully loaded digital line up that TW offers in my area which has the same channels that the STB would have, and then remap the digital STB HI Def local channels with program info to the QAM equivalent.



OIC, is this an open standard where cable co's must allow their system to be accessible to third party ch guides? I had not heard of that.

I figured cable co's would only allow their own or paid ch guides on their system.


----------



## hookbill

Here's another HD DVR from Toshiba .


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16560549
> 
> 
> OIC, is this an open standard where cable co's must allow their system to be accessible to third party ch guides? I had not heard of that.
> 
> I figured cable co's would only allow their own or paid ch guides on their system.



As I understand it, and my knowledge is limited at best, is that Cable companies - TW, Comcast, Cox, Cablevision etc. have agreements with

Macrovision to allow the TVGOS to be carried on their cable systems. On my unit, after you enter your zip code, you are presented with about 4-7 channel

lineups in the area by different providers, and you pick the lineup that you want from your provider. The unit's software then pinpoints a host channel. In my case it's the CBS affiliate which passes along 8 days of program info. I can't explain it any other way. Sorry.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/16560688
> 
> 
> As I understand it, and my knowledge is limited at best, is that Cable companies - TW, Comcast, Cox, Cablevision etc. have agreements with
> 
> Macrovision to allow the TVGOS to be carried on their cable systems. On my unit, after you enter your zip code, you are presented with about 4-7 channel
> 
> lineups in the area by different providers, and you pick the lineup that you want from your provider. The unit's software then pinpoints a host channel. In my case it's the CBS affiliate which passes along 8 days of program info. I can't explain it any other way. Sorry.



You nailed it, berenga - that's how it works. The data is carried in the vertical blanking interval of affiliated stations. The data is tucked away in an area of the signal fairly close to where the closed-caption data resides.


----------



## mnowlin

I think this bit says a lot:

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title47....4.14.3.1.html 


> Quote:
> (a) Basic service. The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber (except a signal secondarily transmitted by satellite carrier beyond the local service area of such station, regardless of how such signal is ultimately received by the cable system) any public, educational, and governmental programming required by the franchise to be carried on the basic tier, and any additional video programming signals a service added to the basic tier by the cable operator.



That basically says that if a broadcast station is carried on a cable network and the HD version of that station is provided to any subscriber, it must be provided to all (including basic service) subscribers. The quoted bit in parenthesis says that our local channels are not exempt from this requirement - they're not sent out of the area as far as I know.


As far as encrypting channels on the basic tier, which per the above reg includes local HD channels - http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...7cfr76.630.htm 


> Quote:
> Sec. 76.630 Compatibility with consumer electronics equipment.
> 
> 
> (a) Cable system operators shall not scramble or otherwise encrypt signals carried on the basic service tier. Requests for waivers of this prohibition must demonstrate either a substantial problem with theft of basic tier service or a strong need to scramble basic signals for other reasons.



Also of interest from http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Ord...1/fcc01022.txt 


> Quote:
> 47 U.S.C. §336(b)(3).
> 
> See 47 C.F.R. §76.62(e).
> 
> A broadcaster’s over-the-air HDTV signal, for example, requires 19.4 mbps, which accounts for both the programming or data, as well as an overhead data stream that includes error correction. When a cable system carries this HDTV signal using QAM modulation, it removes the broadcaster’s overhead data stream and replaces it with the overheada stream appropriate for the specific cable system. Generally the resulting bit rate is somewhat less than 19.4. This reduction in bit rate does not affect picture quality and is not considered material degradation.



The first full paragraph on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner spells out the requirements and loopholes with references. Of course, it's Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth...


----------



## mnowlin

Heh - while I'm looking at cable company requirements, here's a good one that TWC needs to read a few times:

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title47....0.1.1.4.8.3.1 


> Quote:
> (ii) Under normal operating conditions, telephone answer time by a customer representative, including wait time, shall not exceed thirty (30) seconds when the connection is made. If the call needs to be transferred, transfer time shall not exceed thirty (30) seconds. These standards shall be met no less than ninety (90) percent of the time under normal operating conditions, measured on a quarterly basis.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16559201
> 
> 
> The quote specifically states that you need cable cards.



Read it again, Hook. It does not say that. It says "An HDTV with a built-in QAM tuner...". You don't need a cable card unless you want to get cable-only content.


I have a T/W box (DVR) on the TV in my family room. But for the bigger plasma set in my basement, I have only QAM. I use it mostly for DVD and BD, so I'm not worried about getting more than the locals in HD on it. It was nice when T/W used to give us a few of the basic cable HD channels in unencrypted form, but those days seem to be over.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16562575
> 
> 
> I think this bit says a lot:
> 
> http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title47....4.14.3.1.html
> 
> 
> 
> That basically says that if a broadcast station is carried on a cable network and the HD version of that station is provided to any subscriber, it must be provided to all (including basic service) subscribers. The quoted bit in parenthesis says that our local channels are not exempt from this requirement - they're not sent out of the area as far as I know.



Huh? This is what I read:


a*) Basic service. The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber (except a signal secondarily transmitted by satellite carrier beyond the local service area of such station, regardless of how such signal is ultimately received by the cable system) any public, educational, and governmental programming required by the franchise to be carried on the basic tier, and any additional video programming signals a service added to the basic tier by the cable operator.*



Also quoting from any area with less then .gov (such as .com) immediately rises my suspicions as to credibility of source. But lets say it is credible. I don't see anything in that paragraph that remotely refers to HD and your interpretation of it isn't the way I interpret it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16562954
> 
> 
> Read it again, Hook. It does not say that. It says "An HDTV with a built-in QAM tuner...". You don't need a cable card unless you want to get cable-only content.
> 
> 
> I have a T/W box (DVR) on the TV in my family room. But for the bigger plasma set in my basement, I have only QAM. I use it mostly for DVD and BD, so I'm not worried about getting more than the locals in HD on it. It was nice when T/W used to give us a few of the basic cable HD channels in unencrypted form, but those days seem to be over.



I said you could get television with QAM. I'm saying that TW does not have to provide HD channels on clear in the QAM. I said that in the same quote you quoted me on Jim.


I grow weary of this debate. I still think TW does not have to provide HD channels clear in the QAM. Since apparently they are not doing that then either I am wrong or TW is breaking the law.


So go sue TW. Do a class action law suit. I hope everyone gets a 5.00 check in the mail.







I'm done talking about it.


----------



## GregF2

Thanks for the help Nickdawg. Even with your help, I still think the older Motorola guide was much more user friendly. Seems like TW took a step backwards and I am even considering going to Satellite just to get a better guide. Another thing the Motorola could do is when your pressed info for a description of what was on, you could also find when the show is on again very easily. Something that is not easy to do with the SA 5300HDC. Everything with this new DVR involves extra steps. Still can't believe they don't color code the guide for movies, sports, etc...


My wife and son really dislike it. Wish I would have kept one of the Motorola boxes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16555381
> 
> 
> If you press the "A" button on the remote, it brings up the Access Menu. Under this menu, you can find shows that are currently on by categories: HDTV, Sports and Kids. Also the 8300HDC has improved search features by pressing the "B" button.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16563024
> 
> 
> Huh? This is what I read:
> 
> 
> a*) Basic service. The basic service tier shall, at a minimum, include all signals of domestic television broadcast stations provided to any subscriber (except a signal secondarily transmitted by satellite carrier beyond the local service area of such station, regardless of how such signal is ultimately received by the cable system) any public, educational, and governmental programming required by the franchise to be carried on the basic tier, and any additional video programming signals a service added to the basic tier by the cable operator.*
> 
> 
> 
> Also quoting from any area with less then .gov (such as .com) immediately rises my suspicions as to credibility of source. But lets say it is credible. I don't see anything in that paragraph that remotely refers to HD and your interpretation of it isn't the way I interpret it.



Hook, I think the key words are "all signals." The rules don't differentiate between the different programs carried on the "signal", which after June 12 will only be digital...


----------



## hookbill

Watching MLB extra innings Dodgers I'm getting some very annoying sound drop offs and pixelation. SDV?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16568121
> 
> 
> Watching MLB extra innings Dodgers I'm getting some very annoying sound drop offs and pixelation. SDV?



Probably. My SDV channels took a dump earlier tonight. I know because Monday Night RAW only recorded from 9 - 10:28. At that time I checked and all the channels in the 400s had "not available" messages. Wonder if it had anything to do with the weather?


----------



## Silvers24

Nice to see TWC not caring for us here in Conneaut.

Nothing new.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16567469
> 
> 
> Hook, I think the key words are "all signals." The rules don't differentiate between the different programs carried on the "signal", which after June 12 will only be digital...



That's what I zeroed in on as well. I found nothing in the subsequent rules that limited the meaning of "all signals", digital or otherwise.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Silvers24* /forum/post/16568877
> 
> 
> Nice to see TWC not caring for us here in Conneaut.
> 
> Nothing new.



I think they are suppose to finish by mid June.


----------



## magnani




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16568984
> 
> 
> That's what I zeroed in on as well. I found nothing in the subsequent rules that limited the meaning of "all signals", digital or otherwise.



Me too.


----------



## hookbill

Those of you who have been waiting on This TV, it's appearing on the TW line up as channel 248. I don't think it's been discussed and I just thought I'd pass it along. Read this today in Ohio Media Watch.


----------



## hookbill

I think all you should have to do is a call in to get all the new guide data, but I received it when I did a guided set up. I'm calling in now on my other TiVo and it's taking a long, long time so I think it was just a coincidence.


Try a call in first, if that doesn't work then try guided set up.










All new channels are listed except the one I reported earlier, channel 248. I placed a call in on that one but I didn't write down the ticket number. Someone else may want to follow up.


----------



## nickdawg

Isn't Tivo just great?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16573629
> 
> 
> Isn't Tivo just great?



Hey, they had the vast majority of the new channels listed before they were even active. I phoned this in on Wendesday and by Tuesday evening they had it available. Pretty great if you ask me. We would have had it sooner if someone had taken a few minutes to call it in who already had the channels. On the first round of HD additions we had it by the evening of the update.


And yes, TiVo is great.


----------



## nickdawg

I've been away from this page for a long time. It really took a dump in the last few days! The way the discussion was going, I was just waiting for someone to post instructions on how to steal cable TV service!!










I was a bit pissed off by the conversation...


----------



## lewis1982

anybody got any news on new hd channels after june 15th??


----------



## nickdawg

June 15:

Travel Channel HD

ESPNU HD

Speed Channel HD

Versus HD

AMC HD

Lifetime Movie HD



Not a very impressive batch this time around...


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16575533
> 
> 
> June 15:
> 
> Travel Channel HD
> 
> ESPNU HD
> 
> Speed Channel HD
> 
> Versus HD
> 
> AMC HD
> 
> Lifetime Movie HD
> 
> 
> 
> Not a very impressive batch this time around...




ya ill take em tho.. just curious of whats coming after them


----------



## Vchat20

Also, one thing I noticed recently: During DVR playback I don't have the usual playback position bar on the info banner. It just shows me what show is on that channel at this exact second and below the show title is the start and end times for said show. Nothing to say of the actual program being played back.


Anyone else with ODN seeing this? Or just a personal glitch? I'm having an odd feeling it might be resultant of some rewiring a tech came out and did last week and the box attempted to boot a few times while the drop was being finagled. But if anyone else has this bug...


----------



## BudgetPlan1

New (Old for most of you) HD channels showed up this morning in Kirtland/Lake County:


Golf Channel, CNN, FX, Fox News Network, Science Channel


----------



## hookbill

No SDV on one of my sets. The HD TiVo I have in the bedroom may be moving to wife's area while I use the 4250 either temporarily or permanently. I had an issue with TiVo and while fixing that problem I started getting blinking light syndrome.


I tried TiVo customer support before calling the cable company but I may have just as well called the cable company. Wasn't much they could do over the phone but it was more then TW does.


I'm hoping by disconnecting and reconnecting I might get some luck and get this thing going again. Going to place a call to my contact at TW, although I don't know if they can help me or not.


This is the sucky side of SDV.










Can anyone explain why things like Home & Garden Network Shop NBC and all that other shopping crap she watches is not in SDV?


----------



## Adam P

I'm still getting constant blinking light on my tuning adapter. I've called TW's "Tuning adapter hotline" a couple times and they've sent hits out to my TA, but it's done no good.


I am getting all my channels between 3 and 100 now, and most of my HD channels as well, but still none of the channels that just rolled out in the last couple weeks. The ones I am getting are coming in without the tuning adapter, too.


TW said they were sending a new TA out to me but I haven't gotten it yet. I talked to them on Friday, so hopefully it will get here soon if it ever does at all.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16577445
> 
> 
> I'm still getting constant blinking light on my tuning adapter. I've called TW's "Tuning adapter hotline" a couple times and they've sent hits out to my TA, but it's done no good.
> 
> 
> I am getting all my channels between 3 and 100 now, and most of my HD channels as well, but still none of the channels that just rolled out in the last couple weeks. The ones I am getting are coming in without the tuning adapter, too.
> 
> 
> TW said they were sending a new TA out to me but I haven't gotten it yet. I talked to them on Friday, so hopefully it will get here soon if it ever does at all.



Adam, I just got mine fixed. I wish I could give you my contacts name but I can't do that.


I can tell you what she did to fix mine. I read off the serial number on the back of the tuner adapter and she reinitialized it. After that it powered off. I waited approximately 60 seconds and turned it back on. The light blinked 3 times then went steady green.


Switching to live television I got the "acquiring channels" message and about 2 minutes later everything was back.


This is the unfortunate thing about TW. It seems that you have to know somebody to get things done, and at that you gotta know the right person.


You really should write [email protected] and get him to get somebody to resolve this for you. It's taken way to long. And it's just not right.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Silvers24* /forum/post/16568877
> 
> 
> Nice to see TWC not caring for us here in Conneaut.
> 
> Nothing new.



Check again tomorrow morning


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16577684
> 
> 
> Check again tomorrow morning



If he says it you'd better believe it!

















I do.


----------



## Adam P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16577677
> 
> 
> Adam, I just got mine fixed. I wish I could give you my contacts name but I can't do that.
> 
> 
> I can tell you what she did to fix mine. I read off the serial number on the back of the tuner adapter and she reinitialized it. After that it powered off. I waited approximately 60 seconds and turned it back on. The light blinked 3 times then went steady green.
> 
> 
> Switching to live television I got the "acquiring channels" message and about 2 minutes later everything was back.
> 
> 
> This is the unfortunate thing about TW. It seems that you have to know somebody to get things done, and at that you gotta know the right person.
> 
> 
> You really should write [email protected] and get him to get somebody to resolve this for you. It's taken way to long. And it's just not right.



Thanks. It may come to that. I just placed another call with the TA Hotline (you leave a message and they call you back), and the person I've dealt with there before seems friendly and knowledgeable, so I might bring up the re-initialization thing to her. I have the afternoon free today, so hopefully I'll be able to put some time into this.


At least I'm getting 90% of my channels now. I've got a list of 25 or so HD channels that I'm still not getting, and they all appear to be the most recently rolled out channels. The oddest part is that I'm still getting plenty of channels that TWC listed as being SDV on the paperwork included with the TA, like Food HD, HGTV HD, and Big Ten Network HD.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16577684
> 
> 
> Check again tomorrow morning



Will this be true for Mentor (old Comcast) too?


Or will TWC continue to treat us lower than dirt?


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16577766
> 
> 
> Thanks. It may come to that. I just placed another call with the TA Hotline (you leave a message and they call you back), and the person I've dealt with there before seems friendly and knowledgeable, so I might bring up the re-initialization thing to her. I have the afternoon free today, so hopefully I'll be able to put some time into this.
> 
> 
> At least I'm getting 90% of my channels now. I've got a list of 25 or so HD channels that I'm still not getting, and they all appear to be the most recently rolled out channels. The oddest part is that I'm still getting plenty of channels that TWC listed as being SDV on the paperwork included with the TA, like Food HD, HGTV HD, and Big Ten Network HD.



They may have been on the list but I don't think they are actually SDV.


Still I wish you luck. You've got far more patience then I have.


----------



## Adam P

Eh, its got less to do with patience and more to do with the fact that most of what I'm missing out on right now is stuff that I'll probably watch only periodically. I've got the networks, ESPN, and TNT, so I'm pretty good.


Edit: I just got off the phone with a guy out of South Carolina and everything is showing up now. Finally!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16579800
> 
> 
> Eh, its got less to do with patience and more to do with the fact that most of what I'm missing out on right now is stuff that I'll probably watch only periodically. I've got the networks, ESPN, and TNT, so I'm pretty good.
> 
> 
> Edit: I just got off the phone with a guy out of South Carolina and everything is showing up now. Finally!



Cool. I'm glad you got it taken care of. Did he reinitialize the tuner adapter? lol you probably don't care.


----------



## Adam P

I asked him what was causing the issue and I believe he said the tuning adapter was never properly set up when it was sent to me (surprise surprise), and that he or someone else just had to execute a command line at the head end.


I actually happened to be sitting on my couch with my laptop and glanced at the TA and noticed the light was solid, and about a minute later the phone rang with the guy calling me. All I had to do was disconnect and reconnect the USB cable at the TiVo's end, we verified some things in the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics, and it was all there.


Everyone was really helpful. If anyone else is having TiVo/TA issues, I'd highly recommend speaking with Jeanie (sp?) at the Tuning Adapter Hotline, and having her forward your info to South Carolina if she can't help you resolve the problem.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16580148
> 
> 
> I asked him what was causing the issue and I believe he said the tuning adapter was never properly set up when it was sent to me (surprise surprise), and that he or someone else just had to execute a command line at the head end.
> 
> 
> I actually happened to be sitting on my couch with my laptop and glanced at the TA and noticed the light was solid, and about a minute later the phone rang with the guy calling me. All I had to do was disconnect and reconnect the USB cable at the TiVo's end, we verified some things in the Tuning Adapter Diagnostics, and it was all there.



Yeah, he reinitialized it. And they sent you all the way to S.C. for something that nobody in Cleveland could do for you. Ridiculous.


I suspect that the initialization it's the root of all problems with the TA. And if it losses it's initialization like mine did you can have problems. You should also by now have the new guide data with FOX HD, FOX NEWS HD, CNN etc. on it.


----------



## awyeah

So at about 1:05AM, all three SA boxes in my apartment rebooted, and my TA. Anyone else have this happen?


I was kind of hoping that it meant they were finally going to update from this awful SARA software... but everything is back up, and nothing has changed... except now my tuning adapter isn't working, even after power cycling. I guess I'll have to take care of that in the morning.


We're in Twinsburg - so I'm guessing we're attached to the Macedonia headend.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/16582881
> 
> 
> So at about 1:05AM, all three SA boxes in my apartment rebooted, and my TA. Anyone else have this happen?
> 
> 
> I was kind of hoping that it meant they were finally going to update from this awful SARA software... but everything is back up, and nothing has changed... except now my tuning adapter isn't working, even after power cycling. I guess I'll have to take care of that in the morning.
> 
> 
> We're in Twinsburg - so I'm guessing we're attached to the Macedonia headend.



Nobody with SARA is changing software. That only happened to those who had Passport.


Check your guide you may have additional HD channels. I know they were launching SDV in some areas. SDV allows TW to deliver more HD while reducing bandwidth but it will still be SARA.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/16582881
> 
> 
> So at about 1:05AM, all three SA boxes in my apartment rebooted, and my TA. Anyone else have this happen?
> 
> 
> I was kind of hoping that it meant they were finally going to update from this awful SARA software... but everything is back up, and nothing has changed... except now my tuning adapter isn't working, even after power cycling. I guess I'll have to take care of that in the morning.
> 
> 
> We're in Twinsburg - so I'm guessing we're attached to the Macedonia headend.



I already had all the HD channels and SDV and my box also rebooted. I don't see any difference though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/16582881
> 
> 
> So at about 1:05AM, all three SA boxes in my apartment rebooted, and my TA. Anyone else have this happen?
> 
> 
> I was kind of hoping that it meant they were finally going to update from this awful SARA software... but everything is back up, and nothing has changed... except now my tuning adapter isn't working, even after power cycling. I guess I'll have to take care of that in the morning.
> 
> 
> We're in Twinsburg - so I'm guessing we're attached to the Macedonia headend.



I'm sorry I responded off my Blackberry this morning when I was half asleep. Your TA has to be reinitialized and that isn't going to be done easily. Adam P and myself were just discussing this, TW reps will attempt to help but unless you get real lucky expect disappointment.


Tell them the TA has to be reinitialized and get the serial number off the back of it. Once they have that it may be helpful. It's nothing that requires a truck roll, insist that they forward you to their cable card service area. You should have better luck there.


Also you can try calling (330) 572 4116 the tuner adapter hotline and let them know you need it reinitialized. That may expedite it faster then customer service.


Is it possible you guys experienced a power outage? If nothing happened and that tuner adapter lost initialization that may have been the culprit.


Good luck.


----------



## Adam P

Definitely call the tuning adapter hotline. They're the only people that were able to help me at all. When you call you'll have to leave a voicemail, so give them your name, address and phone number (like they ask for) so they'll be able to access your account info, and then explain in the message that you need the TA reinitialized. They should give you a call back and take care of it for you.


----------



## Inundated

TiVo's latest channel update brought me 248 (WUABDT2/This TV), and all the other new HD channels in the guide...of course, I have an S2, so I had to tick off the new HD channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16584103
> 
> 
> TiVo's latest channel update brought me 248 (WUABDT2/This TV), and all the other new HD channels in the guide...of course, I have an S2, so I had to tick off the new HD channels.



I got the HD guide separately, and I got 248 on it's own today. Odd.


----------



## KennedyJ

Sorry if I am breaking any forum rules by posting this... (Mods please delete if that's the case)


I am reluctantly getting out of the HD TiVo game. My two units will be going up on craigslist shortly, but I wanted to give you all first crack at them. If interested, please PM me with offers for 1 stock TiVo HD and 1 TiVo Series 3 (Oled screen, THX, etc.). I also have 1 TiVo 500GB WD DVR Expander and 1 TiVo Wireless adapter. I'm in North Ridgeville.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16583188
> 
> 
> Nobody with SARA is changing software. That only happened to those who had Passport.
> 
> 
> Check your guide you may have additional HD channels. I know they were launching SDV in some areas. SDV allows TW to deliver more HD while reducing bandwidth but it will still be SARA.



Ah well. Yeah, we got SDV a few weeks ago. Can't remember the exact date, but if I recall correctly, it was turned on around the same time we got the first wave of new HD channels.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16575533
> 
> 
> June 15:
> 
> Travel Channel HD
> 
> ESPNU HD
> 
> Speed Channel HD
> 
> Versus HD
> 
> AMC HD
> 
> Lifetime Movie HD
> 
> 
> 
> Not a very impressive batch this time around...



after the Stanley Cup is over..it should have been added at the end of April or end of May at the Latest


what channels are still out there that can be added to the HD Lineup.


----------



## hookbill

Left off that "impressive" list








of HD channels coming June 15 was one that is impressive for us that subscribe to MLB Extra Innings is the HD channel that will come with the package. Finally.


----------



## ErieMarty

what ever happened to Regional Fox Channels showing everything 24/7 in HD..


Right now with the Cavs season over they should just take that station off the list..as nothing will be shown on there..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16595663
> 
> 
> Left off that "impressive" list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> of HD channels coming June 15 was one that is impressive for us that subscribe to MLB Extra Innings is the HD channel that will come with the package. Finally.



Whoopee!! The last thing TWC should do is add pay channels in HD. Especially when we don't have: Spike HD, Comedy HD, MSNBC HD, WGN HD.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16595890
> 
> 
> what ever happened to Regional Fox Channels showing everything 24/7 in HD..
> 
> 
> Right now with the Cavs season over they should just take that station off the list..as nothing will be shown on there..



FSN's networks will go 24/7 HD...sometime. Somewhere.


But FSOhio/FSPittsburgh/etc. have never been more than game only channels up to this point.


----------



## nickdawg

They said FSN was going HD simulcast this year(2008-2009). That never happened.










Is that why this place is so quiet lately? It's the calm before the storm of June 12 and June 15.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16597674
> 
> 
> Whoopee!! The last thing TWC should do is add pay channels in HD. Especially when we don't have: Spike HD, Comedy HD, MSNBC HD, WGN HD.




Let me explain why you're wrong on this. This is a premium service. They give HD channels for HBO etc. What's different about this?


Further these HD channels are suppose to be part of the package I paid for. Actually its just 1 designated channel that shows maybe 2 games on a day if you're lucky. And since irs SDV its not taking up unnecessary bandwidth. If anything I should have got it as soon as SDV became available.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16597674
> 
> 
> Whoopee!! The last thing TWC should do is add pay channels in HD. Especially when we don't have: Spike HD, Comedy HD, MSNBC HD, WGN HD.



nick, just an FYI, MSNBC-HD isn't available yet. It launches June 29th
http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/04/m...on_june_29.php


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16599628
> 
> 
> nick, just an FYI, MSNBC-HD isn't available yet. It launches June 29th
> http://www.tvweek.com/news/2009/04/m...on_june_29.php



I know. And June 29th is exactly the time TWC should be launching the next batch of HD channels. I hope MSNBC is coming soon after it is launched.


----------



## Bismarck440

As these pages get longer & longer to load because of the ad's, I seldom check in .....



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16313554
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe you can get 53 & 65 but not 35. 35 is the strongest of the 3 (and the highest on the tower too IIRC). I can see the tower from my back door and 65 is very snowy (let it snow, it's only HSC).
> 
> 
> Some, if not all the above have applied for DTV channels (one is on 44 IIRC). In any event, those who only have analog equipment will still be able to watch these 3 stations after June 12th, at least for awhile. Ultimately 65 has to move (perhaps they are the one with a ch 44 application) and 53 too. 35 can stay where they are, as that is still in the "core" of TV channels, 53 just missed the cut by one channel (52 is the highest "core" channel).



65 is the strongest by far (a bit snowy), followed by 53, but usually no sign of a picture on 35 (which I read is Retro TV now).


Actually this was the most consice answer as I know the FCC is ansy to sell off the upper channels... though I thought 51 was going to be the higest broadcast, not 52. I'm pretty sure that is correct, 65 has applied for 44 & 53 has applied for 7.


----------



## Bismarck440




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16302148
> 
> 
> I think you're talking about "broadcasting" on D* and that probably is true, however I'm referring to the local broadcast. From Wikipedia :
> 
> 
> TBS is a national cable channel, available throughout the entire United States. Until October 1, 2007, the national TBS feed could not be viewed within its home market of the Atlanta Metropolitan Area, due to the over-the-air presence of WTBS, which carried a nearly identical schedule, plus the required public affairs programming and E/I programming for children.
> 
> The operations of WTBS (channel 17) and TBS Superstation were split in October 2007, with the over-the-air channel becoming WPCH-TV, a general-entertainment independent station focused on the Atlanta area only. For the first time, the national TBS feed is available to cable and satellite subscribers within channel 17's viewing area.
> 
> Due to a technicality, cable and satellite companies in Canada are only permitted to carry the over-the-air Atlanta station, and therefore most now carry WPCH ("Peachtree TV") instead of the nationwide TBS channel that other American viewers receive.[1] This dated back to prior to the change, when TBS programming was offered to Canadian viewers through WTBS, not the national cable channel. Many cable companies were apparently unaware of the changeover until after it occurred.[2] As a result, should Canadian cable companies wish to air "cable" TBS, it will be several months before the necessary approvals are received.



Read & learned, but the 17 allocation still exists in Atlanta.. this is quite recent, last I checked WTBS's programming mirrored the national programming with the exception of Sunday Mornings.


Wow time has flown by.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16302148
> 
> 
> Howowners associations cannot by law not allow you to have a television antenna on your home. .



Cluster home, although they have laxed dish rules, the antennas are controled & maintained by the association, since 95% don't need an antenna I'm sure it will be struck from the bylaws soon.


BTW, is this strictly a cable forum now? My apologies if it is!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bismarck440* /forum/post/16601076
> 
> 
> BTW, is this strictly a cable forum now? My apologies if it is!



There is an OTA thread now for local Cleveland. I guess satellite people are there too, don't see anything anymore here but TW.


----------



## nickdawg

I wouldn't say it's strictly a "cable only" thread. I don't discriminate so if some OTA talk happens here, I won't complain!










(OTA beats the hell out of the cable theft talk that was here last week!!)


----------



## Ben Music

Just wondered, is the Elyria/Mentor (old Comcast) area the only ones left without SDV? The only new HD channels we have so far, are the first batch ( SCI-FI, USA, DISNEY etc) that came out at the end of March. Do I assume the rest of the new additions since

then are all SDV? I keep waiting for something to happen, but it never does. The SDV adapter boxes have never shown up, even though I answered all the confermation e-mails for my Tivo S3.


Anyone hear any news as to when this will all happen?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16605540
> 
> 
> Just wondered, is the Elyria/Mentor (old Comcast) area the only ones left without SDV? The only new HD channels we have so far, are the first batch ( SCI-FI, USA, DISNEY etc) that came out at the end of March. Do I assume the rest of the new additions since
> 
> then are all SDV? I keep waiting for something to happen, but it never does. The SDV adapter boxes have never shown up, even though I answered all the confermation e-mails for my Tivo S3.
> 
> 
> Anyone hear any news as to when this will all happen?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Call the tuner adapter hot line at (330) 572 4116. Tell them you haven't received your TA, they will overnight it to you. At least they should.


As to when you get SDV, Cathode Kid do you have any idea?


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16605540
> 
> 
> Just wondered, is the Elyria/Mentor (old Comcast) area the only ones left without SDV? The only new HD channels we have so far, are the first batch ( SCI-FI, USA, DISNEY etc) that came out at the end of March.
> 
> Ben Music



Out here in Kirtland (right next to Mentor) the following showed up last week:


Golf Channel HD

CNN HD

FX HD

Fox News Network HD

Science Channel HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/16606814
> 
> 
> Out here in Kirtland (right next to Mentor) the following showed up last week:
> 
> 
> Golf Channel HD
> 
> CNN HD
> 
> FX HD
> 
> Fox News Network HD
> 
> Science Channel HD



I'm not certain but I think Ben Music is strictly TiVo and if that's the case without a tuner adapter he'd have no idea about new channels.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/16606814
> 
> 
> Out here in Kirtland (right next to Mentor) the following showed up last week:
> 
> 
> Golf Channel HD
> 
> CNN HD
> 
> FX HD
> 
> Fox News Network HD
> 
> Science Channel HD




The Elyria/Mentor Area includes Amherst, Amherst Twp, Avon, Avonlake, Bay Village, Carlisle Twp, Concord, Eastlake, Eaton Twp, Elyria, Elyria Twp, Fairport Harbor,Grand River, Lakeline, Mentor, New Russia Twp, North Ridgeville, Painsville, South Amherst, Timberlake, Wickcliffe, Willoughby, and Willoughby Hills.


----------



## Inundated

I BELIEVE, but don't know for sure, that Kirtland is a part of the former Adelphia system...


----------



## hookbill

The Mentor/Elyria area is ex Comcast, is it not?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16606960
> 
> 
> The Mentor/Elyria area is ex Comcast, is it not?



That is correct.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16606831
> 
> 
> I'm not certain but I think Ben Music is strictly TiVo and if that's the case without a tuner adapter he'd have no idea about new channels.



Actually, it's OTA, TWC (MOTO), TIVO S3, and DIRECTV.

The TIVO S3 shows guide info for the new HD channels, but no picture or sound. Just current program info at the top of the screen when I click on any of the new HD chan's. I still find it strange that all the new HD chan's are SDV, while most of the SD chan's are not. I would have thought it would be the other way around.


I know that sooner or later I'm going to have to trade my MOTO box, for a SA box. I'm suprised that TWC hasn't sent me a letter or e-mail about that yet. Has anyone figured out how to program a SA box to do a 30 sec skip?


Ben Music


----------



## TYTONK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16602379
> 
> 
> (OTA beats the hell out of the cable theft talk that was here last week!!)



I am happy to let Nickdawg and Hookbill know that all the local channels are back *free* and clear in *HD* via QAM!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/16607309
> 
> 
> I am happy to let Nickdawg and Hookbill know that all the local channels are back *free* and clear in *HD* via QAM!!!



Lol no skin off my back.







How many days were they not available?


I really don't consider getting something off QAM stealing and if you get it more power to you. I just questioned if locals had to be clear in QAM. Now how nickdawg feels about it may be another matter.


I do think TW wants you to pay. Don't be surprised if they disappear again.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm running for chairman of the FCC. First rule: abolishing analog broadcast and SDV. Everyone gets a cable box with full bandwidth HDTV.










Next job after that: 1080p OTA and cable/satellite!!


----------



## Adam P

Anyone else's channels between 430 and 500 just go out all of a sudden?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16610079
> 
> 
> I'm running for chairman of the FCC. First rule: abolishing analog broadcast and SDV.



Well, you're a little late on abolishing analog broadcast. Little birdie told me that's going to happen in a few days....


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16610554
> 
> 
> Anyone else's channels between 430 and 500 just go out all of a sudden?



Yes, last night they said they are temporarily unavailable for some reason.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16610079
> 
> 
> I'm running for chairman of the FCC. First rule: abolishing analog broadcast and SDV. Everyone gets a cable box with full bandwidth HDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next job after that: 1080p OTA and cable/satellite!!



OK, Mr. Chairman so what does the cable companies do about creating more bandwith for more HD channels if you ablolish SDV.


Also SDV is working fine in my area. Maybe it's a problem working it with that Navigator software you have. Or, perhaps it's that wonderful DVR you use.


----------



## Adam P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16611481
> 
> 
> Yes, last night they said they are temporarily unavailable for some reason.



Cool, just making sure it wasn't an issue on my end. Everything is back to normal now.


----------



## Vchat20

Well if they can cut out 90% of all the 70+ analog channels and only keep the must-carry's (something like 2-15 give or take), there'd be ample bandwidth for a large number of HD channels (say 75 existing channels minus 15, there is 60 analog channels. at 3 HD channels that is 180 ADDITIONAL channels, not even considering what is on now either in SDV or non-SDV. They wouldn't ever even need to use SDV for future channels unless they started capping out after adding 150+ HD channels (are there even that much yet?) and then it'd be a piece of cake to start moving existing channels to SDV oe by one.


In a case like this I will agree with nickdawg and have plenty of times. Cableco's are getting the shaft by the FCC and can't cut out their analog's and build their digital lineups because of the grandfathered tech and backlash and lawsuits from consumers. Comcast has really been the only one successful with such a thing so far through a scorched earth policy and I don't even recall how well it has went so far.


Drop all but the must carry analog channels and increase that available QAM bandwidth and then offer crippled DCTs for like $1-$2/mo per tv to continue receiving the expanded basic programming.


----------



## hookbill

Bandwith isn't only a cable issue. D* handled it by launching more satellites and if I recall they switched to mpeg 4 on many of their transmissions. I think at that time it was referred to as "HD Light."


Anyone else who subscribes to this thread having problems getting emails on updates? Seems to be happening a lot to me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16611571
> 
> 
> Cool, just making sure it wasn't an issue on my end. Everything is back to normal now.



So long as that light stays green, you're fine. One of my TiVo's rebooted on me and all I could do was stare at the blinking light. As soon as it fully rebooted light stopped blinking.


Reason my TiVo rebooted? I hit pause and it wouldn't so I hit pause a few more times and pissed it off. I guess.


As much as I knock SA machines I will say I've never had the amount of reboots from them as I do on my TiVos. Fortunately these reboots never happen during a recording.


----------



## Adam P

Once this whole SDV thing works with my TiVo for about a month with no hiccups then I'll rest easy. Until then I'm going to be suspicious about everything.


And yet, I'm still considering getting a second TiVo to replace the SA 4250.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16612976
> 
> 
> Once this whole SDV thing works with my TiVo for about a month with no hiccups then I'll rest easy. Until then I'm going to be suspicious about everything.
> 
> 
> And yet, I'm still considering getting a second TiVo to replace the SA 4250.



I just got something from them in my email. TiVo HD with free service. You may want to look now that's a deal and a half.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16611651
> 
> 
> Bandwith isn't only a cable issue. D* handled it by launching more satellites and if I recall they switched to mpeg 4 on many of their transmissions. I think at that time it was referred to as "HD Light."



Yes, but they don't have nearly the amount of forced limitations, restrictions, and other garbage that cable has to deal with.


Cable has a given limit on available bandwidth. They can't just launch another satellite and bam. And mpeg4 is a bit difficult considering there is equipment out there not owned by them which is mpeg2 only (your Tivos are a great example) so either they do part mpeg4 on a tier of channels and have people ***** or wait till everyone gets up to speed (possibly never).


Hell, I'd much rather them go all fiber and IPTV and not have these problems to begin with, but we know that's a fat chance on a cold day in hell in the dog days of summer. At least the option of killing the analogs is more within their reach given other cableco's like comcast have done it with little changes other than providing neutered/low end DCTs to basic subscribers.


----------



## nickdawg

I like your idea, Vchat. And I think I found a way for TWC to save money. Replace all the old Pioneer BD-V1000 boxes with new SA boxes. Then take the old Pioneer boxes, download a very minimal OS on them(one that makes the SARA boxes look like Tivos) and use those for customers who do not want extra features. And sell the outdated Pioneer boxes for $1 or $2 a month.


I think we've discussed this before, but it is a load of crap what the cable companies have to do. Out of all the TV options: Cable, Satellite, IPTV, OTA; only cable will still be broadcasting in analog next week!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16614763
> 
> 
> I think we've discussed this before, but it is a load of crap what the cable companies have to do. Out of all the TV options: Cable, Satellite, IPTV, OTA; only cable will still be broadcasting in analog next week!



So how exactly is that going to work. Lets say they have a fiber feed directly form local stations, I think that's safe to assume. Now are they sending an analog signal on that feed? I didn't think that was possible I thought it had to be digital. And if it is digital then what TW is doing, to the best of my knowledge, is taking the digital feed, converting it to analog, and then converting it back to digital again?


That doesn't make sense. Anybody got a clue?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16614925
> 
> 
> So how exactly is that going to work. Lets say they have a fiber feed directly form local stations, I think that's safe to assume. Now are they sending an analog signal on that feed? I didn't think that was possible I thought it had to be digital. And if it is digital then what TW is doing, to the best of my knowledge, is taking the digital feed, converting it to analog, and then converting it back to digital again?
> 
> 
> That doesn't make sense. Anybody got a clue?



Right now they are sending an analog signal, for the SD channel. That signal is converted to a digital channel for TVs with digital STB. It's analog on TVs just connected to the cable line. But once the analog channels go away(on Friday!!) TWC will be using a digital signal, which should be sent in digital for TVs with a STB and converted to analog for the infidels who won't buy a cable box(or a Tivo!)







.


I think if the signal coming in from fiber or OTA is digital, it is probably going through as digital. I don't see why it would be converted from digital to analog back to digital. The easiest route would be to convert from digital to analog.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16615650
> 
> 
> Right now they are sending an analog signal, for the SD channel. That signal is converted to a digital channel for TVs with digital STB. It's analog on TVs just connected to the cable line. But once the analog channels go away(on Friday!!) TWC will be using a digital signal, which should be sent in digital for TVs with a STB and converted to analog for the infidels who won't buy a cable box(or a Tivo!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Right. But can you send an analog signal on fiber optic line? Maybe it isn't a fiber optic line maybe we just a ss u me that.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16615650
> 
> 
> I think if the signal coming in from fiber or OTA is digital, it is probably going through as digital. I don't see why it would be converted from digital to analog back to digital. The easiest route would be to convert from digital to analog.



Yes exactly. Are we using too much common sense?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Right. But can you send an analog signal on fiber optic line? Maybe it isn't a fiber optic line maybe we just a ss u me that.



Yes. Telephone, internet, TV signals can all be sent on fiber optic lines. I don't see why analog couldn't be sent. It would be lower quality, but it can be done.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16615694
> 
> 
> Yes exactly. Are we using too much common sense?



I think so. Remember TWC thinks like we think. And apparently TWC thinks we are all bass ackwards like they are.


----------



## Vchat20

How do you think TWC sends the analog channels to you being a hybrid fiber coax plant? It's just RF modulated as an optical carrier. Doesn't care what's being carried across that RF whether it's analog NTSC or QAM. I'm pretty sure there are some high profile live event production trucks that feed analog HD from multiple cameras on a single fiber (we're talking many gigabits per camera for example).


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16615976
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure there are some high profile live event production trucks that feed analog HD from multiple cameras on a single fiber (we're talking many gigabits per camera for example).










If it's measured in "gigabits", then it's not analog.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16618318
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's measured in "gigabits", then it's not analog.



My bad. My thinking was off. Regardless, the point stands that fiber is fiber and doesn't care what is being transmitted across it. Just like how we have coax now which can carry anything with the right modulation and equipment. Cableco's already do this kind of thing and transmit the analogs from the headend to your local nodes over fiber in the analog space.


I may have been thinking of HD-SDI which is uncompressed digital video streams and runs like ~1.5gb/s for 1080i and while is designed for an electrical 'serial' interface, I'm sure is run over fiber by some especially for long runs where an electrical signal is much less efficient with length losses than an optical transmission.


----------



## hookbill

Anybody else think that the amount of information about the digital switch is overkill? I mean how difficult can this possibly be to understand?


----------



## Wagaroni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16612976
> 
> 
> Once this whole SDV thing works with my TiVo for about a month with no hiccups then I'll rest easy. Until then I'm going to be suspicious about everything.
> 
> 
> And yet, I'm still considering getting a second TiVo to replace the SA 4250.



That would be great...I seem to be rebooting my Tivo/Tuning Adapter once every 4-5 days because it will just randomly stop tuning SDV channels.


----------



## hookbill

That's just plain crazy. TiVo itself has nothing to do with decoding the SDV channels that is done by the tuner adapter. You must have a defective one. Quit rebooting TiVo and replace the tuner adapter.


----------



## Adam P

I lost a few SDV channels the other night again, but only for about 5-10 minutes. Other than that, no SDV/tuning adapter issues since I got everything up and running.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16618390
> 
> 
> Regardless, the point stands that fiber is fiber and doesn't care what is being transmitted across it.



Agreed. That's why I clipped that part from the quote - I didn't intend my quip to stand against it. I was just amused at the disconnect.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16624233
> 
> 
> I lost a few SDV channels the other night again, but only for about 5-10 minutes. Other than that, no SDV/tuning adapter issues since I got everything up and running.



I noticed that MLBnetwork HD was down for about 5 minutes the other day. Now whether this is SDV related or not I don't know. It seems whenever TW adds new HD channels there is a bit of a "problem period" they go through.


In any case I don't believe that has anything to do with the tuner adapter. As long as the light is green we are fine. I think non TiVo people probably experienced it as well. The outage was so brief I didn't have time to check my 4250, next time I will.


----------



## Too_Many_options

I have noticed several stations being down at various times (all were HD) each a few minutes.

I have 2 different hd cable boxes, I do not have tivo.

The problems started after sdv.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> On or after May 26, 2009, ten Movies On Demand HD services will be added to positions 980-989 in some areas.



May 26th Ha

they just showed up yesterday on my box


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16626358
> 
> 
> May 26th Ha
> 
> they just showed up yesterday on my box



On or after. It's after. Whatta ya complaining about?


----------



## shooter21198

I just hope it doesnt go 15 days after the next batch of HD channels


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16626358
> 
> 
> May 26th Ha
> 
> they just showed up yesterday on my box





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16626535
> 
> 
> I just hope it doesnt go 15 days after the next batch of HD channels



Stop your Whining. In the lower than dirt old Comcast area (Mentor anyways) we still do not have SDV or the last batch of HD channels.


I want an adjustment to my bill. If it was not such a painful experience to call TWC I'd call and ask for an adjustment until SDV and new HD channels appear.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16626587
> 
> 
> I want an adjustment to my bill. If it was not such a painful experience to call TWC I'd call and ask for an adjustment until SDV and new HD channels appear.
> 
> 
> Ray



Heh heh and if everybody did it maybe you'd see some action. But so long as everybody feels like you do about it why should they?










It's not that painful. They will give you 20 bucks just to get you off their backs.


----------



## hookbill

I just saw a message pop up on my screen. I think this was a TiVo/Tuner Adapter thing but I could be wrong.


Message said "If you are still watching this channel press select. Otherwise this channel may temporarily discontinue."


I pressed select and message went away. I was watching CNN HD at the time the message popped up, a SDV channel. I've had it on since 9:00 this morning.


Now what I find interesting about this is I've left my TiVo's on an SDV channel for over 24 hours and never have seen that message. We don't "turn off" the TiVo's although some may put them on standby. I wonder if it does turn off the broadcast when I'm not watching and turn it back on again? And how about you guys with STB's and DVR's have you ever seen this?


----------



## hookbill

Ohio Media Watch is reporting that WKYC is now broadcasting on 17.1. I did a rescan of my cockatoos television and sure enough for the first time ever I'm getting a signal, though it may be week from WKYC. I've never been able to get that channel prior to this.


Heres the link to OMW.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/0...dt-on-air.html


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16628130
> 
> 
> I just saw a message pop up on my screen. I think this was a TiVo/Tuner Adapter thing but I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> Message said "If you are still watching this channel press select. Otherwise this channel may temporarily discontinue."
> 
> 
> I pressed select and message went away. I was watching CNN HD at the time the message popped up, a SDV channel. I've had it on since 9:00 this morning.
> 
> 
> Now what I find interesting about this is I've left my TiVo's on an SDV channel for over 24 hours and never have seen that message. We don't "turn off" the TiVo's although some may put them on standby. I wonder if it does turn off the broadcast when I'm not watching and turn it back on again? And how about you guys with STB's and DVR's have you ever seen this?



I have that with the TWC box too. The other day I was watching CNNHD for several hours and by 5 hours it said "To Continue Watching This Channel, Press Any Button". The equipment has a timeout feature for SDV so if a channel is tuned for a long time and not viewed/recorded, the resources are not wasted. If all the slots are full because people have their TV left on a SDV channel, others might see the Not Available message. I usually don't have this problem with the DVR because I always turn it off(to save the hard drive), so the channel isn't tuned plus I'm usually flipping through the guide or something, so I don't get the Continue Watching message or the DVR Sleep Mode message often.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16625454
> 
> 
> I noticed that MLBnetwork HD was down for about 5 minutes the other day. Now whether this is SDV related or not I don't know. It seems whenever TW adds new HD channels there is a bit of a "problem period" they go through.
> 
> 
> In any case I don't believe that has anything to do with the tuner adapter. As long as the light is green we are fine. I think non TiVo people probably experienced it as well. The outage was so brief I didn't have time to check my 4250, next time I will.



It's probably SDV related. That happens sometimes. Other channels work fine but SDV channels are "Not Available". Happened to me Monday during Monday Night RAW. Really pissed me off.


----------



## lefkas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *grayta* /forum/post/16556893
> 
> 
> Same issue here in N. Canton. WKYC hi def QAM is MIA. I have hi def QAM for WEWS (5-1), WJW (8-1), WOIO (19-1), WUAB (43-1) and WNEO (49-1). Numerous rescans on my Vizio VW37L and nothing. Was too lazy to get out the antenna last night so I had to watch Jay's farewell in SD. Bummer.



I have been able to relocate at 111-1 on my QAM tuner with a TWC feed. 111-2 is the WKYC weather station and 111-3 is the local PBS station.


I recently moved to QAM from OTA and noticed a substantial degradation in picture quality. Seems to me the color, clarity and vibrance of the OTA picture is unparalleled. I don't think most people know what they are missing with cable or satellite HD reception.


Obviously, biggest problem with OTA (particularly using rabbit ears) is that not all local channels come in all the time, and often planes or high winds interrupt signal. Perhaps would be better with rooftop antenna, but neighborhood restrictions preclude use thereof.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16628269
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch is reporting that WKYC is now broadcasting on 17.1. I did a rescan of my cockatoos television and sure enough for the first time ever I'm getting a signal, though it may be week from WKYC. I've never been able to get that channel prior to this.
> 
> 
> Heres the link to OMW.
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/0...dt-on-air.html



Just tried a scan where I am in Akron, and came up empty on WKYC. I will try again but I have a feeling they took it down.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16628269
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch is reporting that WKYC is now broadcasting on 17.1. I did a rescan of my cockatoos television and sure enough for the first time ever I'm getting a signal, though it may be week from WKYC. I've never been able to get that channel prior to this.



Your cockatoo doesn't know how to rescan it by himself yet? You've got to train him better.










Look for WKYC-DT 17 to be on the air for good starting this evening, with the "official" launch tomorrow morning.


----------



## Vchat20

I haven't seen any more notices of additional channels past June 15th. Any ideas?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16629707
> 
> 
> I haven't seen any more notices of additional channels past June 15th. Any ideas?



That's the end. No more additional channels until the next rate hike.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16629737
> 
> 
> That's the end. No more additional channels until the next rate hike.



Oh boy. Lotta people here going to have coronaries over this one. Better put Mr. Jasso under witness protection.


----------



## nickdawg

So, who's ready to start watching analog OTA go bye bye? I am. I can't wait!!


----------



## nickdawg

I'm very disappointed in our local stations tonight. I was hoping they were going to run persistent overlays stating: THIS CHANNEL ENDS TOMORROW AT 10AM to make sure the morons who still are clueless finally get a clue. From my observations, it still looks like business as usual over on the analog side...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16630603
> 
> 
> I'm very disappointed in our local stations tonight. I was hoping they were going to run persistent overlays stating: THIS CHANNEL ENDS TOMORROW AT 10AM to make sure the morons who still are clueless finally get a clue. From my observations, it still looks like business as usual over on the analog side...



Did you not read my short rant on the overkill of information for these people? They have hot lines set up at the stations. FCC is available. Heck in one town the friggin fire department is helping people install the darn converter boxes.


Not only that in commercials TW is offering free install. If they haven't got the message by now tough titty said rhe kitty when the milk runs dry at 10 am tomorrow.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16630693
> 
> 
> Did you not read my short rant on the overkill of information for these people? They have hot lines set up at the stations. FCC is available. Heck in one town the friggin fire department is helping people install the darn converter boxes.
> 
> 
> Not only that in commercials TW is offering free install. If they haven't got the message by now tough titty said rhe kitty when the milk runs dry at 10 am tomorrow.



I want that just on the analog channels, mostly in the name of harassing the s--t out of the people not ready. I was the head guy at WEWS. I'd be running a HUGE banner over the basketball game on 5 analog OTA only. 15(5) HDTV would be crap free, as a reward to those who are ready.

















In other news, WKYC ran a Hurricane Warning at 8:34 pm for Columbiana county.

http://www.cleveland.com/forums/television/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16630785
> 
> 
> I want that just on the analog channels, mostly in the name of harassing the s--t out of the people not ready. I was the head guy at WEWS. I'd be running a HUGE banner over the basketball game on 5 analog OTA only. 15(5) HDTV would be crap free, as a reward to those who are ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other news, WKYC ran a Hurricane Warning at 8:34 pm for Columbiana county.
> 
> http://www.cleveland.com/forums/television/



How about a count down bug? "Your TV will end" and above it the bug.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16630991
> 
> 
> How about a count down bug? "Your TV will end" and above it the bug.



Cool Idea!! "You TV will self destruct in: ..."


----------



## Vchat20

I saw someone post somewhere about tailgating a Best Buy parking lot watching all the clueless people run in and out with brand new flat screens because 'their tv broke'.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16631096
> 
> 
> I saw someone post somewhere about tailgating a Best Buy parking lot watching all the clueless people run in and out with brand new flat screens because 'their tv broke'.



HA!










I love watching clueless people in a panic, though from a safe distance.


----------



## Vchat20

Hrm. Can someone here with the skills help me confirm some suspicisions?


All of a sudden I have noticed a lot of channels that used to be marked copy freely are now marked copy once. This includes channels like Palladia (understandable if they just caught it and being MTV owned), Weather Channel (on the fence), and Discovery (SHOULD be open as Discovery has a mandate to keep their channels copy freely last I recall). Locals are still copy freely, but the cable networks that used to be copy freely now seem to all be locked down.


Just curious if it is me, my box, or more widespread around here?


----------



## nickdawg

F--K you TWC!! Looks like their $h!tty, bandwidth wasting analog service won't be going away any time soon. All I see on local TV lately is ads about "no converter boxes" and "use your same remote". They claim you can get a "clear, reliable picture". But in reality you are paying TWC $9.95 a month(For 12 Months) just to get the same fuzzy analog garbage you used to get OTA.


Just in case it is not already known, OTA DIGITAL TV IS FAR SUPERIOR TO ANALOG CABLE!!


---------

One Correction:


TWC calls it a "complicated converter box". Yeah, you know how complicated those IN FROM ANT/OUT TO TV connections are!







It's like a 1980s/1990s VHS machine. I'm not surprised that people are incorrectly watching HD sets with cable boxes. If they can't get the idea of IN/OUT, how would they ever understand Y/Pr/Pb; L/R; COAX, OPTICAL, etc... I'm sure some of these cavemen would probably screw up a HDMI connection


----------



## k2rj

Nick,

Cool it. We all know how you feel and your incessant rants here aren't going to change TWC's business model. You're ranting to the "choir"!!!


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16632459
> 
> 
> F--K you TWC!! Looks like their $h!tty, bandwidth wasting analog service won't be going away any time soon. All I see on local TV lately is ads about "no converter boxes" and "use your same remote". They claim you can get a "clear, reliable picture". But in reality you are paying TWC $9.95 a month(For 12 Months) just to get the same fuzzy analog garbage you used to get OTA.
> 
> 
> Just in case it is not already known, OTA DIGITAL TV IS FAR SUPERIOR TO ANALOG CABLE!!
> 
> 
> ---------
> 
> One Correction:
> 
> 
> TWC calls it a "complicated converter box". Yeah, you know how complicated those IN FROM ANT/OUT TO TV connections are!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like a 1980s/1990s VHS machine. I'm not surprised that people are incorrectly watching HD sets with cable boxes. If they can't get the idea of IN/OUT, how would they ever understand Y/Pr/Pb; L/R; COAX, OPTICAL, etc... I'm sure some of these cavemen would probably screw up a HDMI connection




The FCC has mandated that they continue to provide analog service for, at least, the local stations for 3 years.


----------



## nickdawg

WEWS "unofficially" shut off at 9:50 by running a DTV Test message stating that "WEWS will be shutting off analog at 10AM" and listing their phone number and website.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/16633213
> 
> 
> The FCC has mandated that they continue to provide analog service for, at least, the local stations for 3 years.



I hope you're kidding, because that is simply not true.


----------



## hookbill

OK here we go. WBNX is still coming in from TW as an analog channel. All the others are showing digital, but judging from pq it still looks like converted digital.


WBNX is showing PCM 48. How is this possible if they are all broadcasting in analog. Be back after I check something.


----------



## nickdawg

Let's all give the engineers at WJW a standing ovation. At 10:00 I noticed on my TV connected to TWC that the picture on 8 went dark. Within a minute and a half, they were back on the air(presumably on their new RF-8). I'm very impressed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16633440
> 
> 
> OK here we go. WBNX is still coming in from TW as an analog channel. All the others are showing digital, but judging from pq it still looks like converted digital.
> 
> 
> WBNX is showing PCM 48. How is this possible if they are all broadcasting in analog. Be back after I check something.



It's probably digital converted to analog. If the channel is still encoded as an analog channel, it will remain analog. The only thing that changed is the source.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16633449
> 
> 
> Let's all give the engineers at WJW a standing ovation. At 10:00 I noticed on my TV connected to TWC that the picture on 8 went dark. Within a minute and a half, they were back on the air(presumably on their new RF-8). I'm very impressed.



I can't get FOX 8 OTA anymore, and that was my strongest signal. I can get WKYC, it's now my strongest signal. This is all via rabbit ears, apparently their VHF signal is not strong enough for me to receive. My cockatoo is screaming, he's highly upset that his FOX programs arn't on.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16633692
> 
> 
> I can't get FOX 8 OTA anymore, and that was my strongest signal. I can get WKYC, it's now my strongest signal. This is all via rabbit ears, apparently their VHF signal is not strong enough for me to receive. My cockatoo is screaming, he's highly upset that his FOX programs arn't on.



Same situation here...WJW has moved from a blowtorch to a Bic lighter for me, digital signal wise...and WKYC is the blowtorch now!


I did manage to lock on WJW here. But it's not nearly the signal it was (internal/rabbit ears here, too) on 31.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16633406
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding, because that is simply not true.




I stand corrected.


----------



## Inundated

Oh, forgot I was on the TWC board.


WBNX analog is gone, so TWC must be picking up from digital OTA. I'm pretty sure WBNX doesn't have fiber to the cable company.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16633916
> 
> 
> Oh, forgot I was on the TWC board.
> 
> 
> WBNX analog is gone, so TWC must be picking up from digital OTA. I'm pretty sure WBNX doesn't have fiber to the cable company.



Well, it still showing up as analog on the cable. So they are down converting if that's the case.


----------



## grayta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/16628973
> 
> 
> I have been able to relocate at 111-1 on my QAM tuner with a TWC feed. 111-2 is the WKYC weather station and 111-3 is the local PBS station.
> 
> 
> I recently moved to QAM from OTA and noticed a substantial degradation in picture quality. Seems to me the color, clarity and vibrance of the OTA picture is unparalleled. I don't think most people know what they are missing with cable or satellite HD reception.
> 
> 
> Obviously, biggest problem with OTA (particularly using rabbit ears) is that not all local channels come in all the time, and often planes or high winds interrupt signal. Perhaps would be better with rooftop antenna, but neighborhood restrictions preclude use thereof.




Thanks. I did scan and find WKYC at 111-X on my LG 3510A, but still nothing on the Vizio. And you're right, the OTA feed looks much better anyway (seemingly even more so this week, both HD and SD channels are looking terrible on TWC). I'll be rescanning everything tomorrow (both OTA and QAM), guess I'll see what I can find then.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16632383
> 
> 
> Hrm. Can someone here with the skills help me confirm some suspicisions?
> 
> 
> All of a sudden I have noticed a lot of channels that used to be marked copy freely are now marked copy once. This includes channels like Palladia (understandable if they just caught it and being MTV owned), Weather Channel (on the fence), and Discovery (SHOULD be open as Discovery has a mandate to keep their channels copy freely last I recall). Locals are still copy freely, but the cable networks that used to be copy freely now seem to all be locked down.
> 
> 
> Just curious if it is me, my box, or more widespread around here?



Discovery HD? Nope that's not copy freely. TW policy is suppose to be any analog, copy freely any local HD, copy freely. All other HD and digital is copy once.


Regular Discovery channel if it's still on analog would be copy freely. If they moved it to digital then you're out of luck.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16634892
> 
> 
> Discovery HD? Nope that's not copy freely. TW policy is suppose to be any analog, copy freely any local HD, copy freely. All other HD and digital is copy once.
> 
> 
> Regular Discovery channel if it's still on analog would be copy freely. If they moved it to digital then you're out of luck.



Are you 100% certain cause I could have swore Discovery had made it a part of the carriage contract that all their owned networks had to be in the clear?


Remember that all channels are digital here even the SD ones down in 2-99 (and are dupes of the ones on 100+. Same QAM location, different displayed channel #). Weather Channel SD, Discovery SD and HD, and Palladia HD have been 3 channels outside of the locals that have always worked here. And considering they quickly caught on with channels like Disney and USA when they first came in as HD and flipped them to copy once, it's kinda odd that after a couple months they NOW decide to flip it over.


I'm just curious to see if anyone else is getting 0x02 Copy Once on these channels or not since they WERE 0x00 Copy Freely just as recently as the night before last.


----------



## hookbill

I just checked. There is no cci byte for Discovery Analog and Discovery HD is showing 0x02. I can tell you that this is one of my major beefs with TW that there is no restriction on the analog channels but they do restrict on all digital channels (over channel 100 for me) are 0x02. Now how they handle your digitals under 100 I have no idea of course.


----------



## Vchat20

Well when you are talking TRUE analog (where your Tivo or STB are taking in the analog cable signal and encoding it themselves) it is kinda hard to add any copy protection to it.







But once in that digital domain where TWC has more control over it, the transport stream has facilities for said copy protection.


That is weird though that they changed that. I'll have to try going through more channels and see if any others are newly locked out.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/16633909
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.



Clevemkt, you were correct. The FCC is requiring cable operators to provide analog signals through 2012, either directly or via set-top boxes for all subscribers. FCC document here (pdf).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16638906
> 
> 
> Clevemkt, you were correct. The FCC is requiring cable operators to provide analog signals through 2012, either directly or via set-top boxes for all subscribers. FCC document here (pdf).



OK I will stand corrected as I thought Clevemkt was referring to broadcast television. You are correct about the FCC and analog cable.


This however confuses me even further as to what goes on in native TW land. Are all the analog channels we have upgraded digital? Do you need a box to get basic plus?


I'm really also confused why WBNX has never been upgraded to digital in my area.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16639071
> 
> 
> I'm really also confused why WBNX has never been upgraded to digital in my area.



Analog VHF signals may be duplicated in digital format by a cable company in order to combat ingress and deliver a better picture. When a cable-ready set is tuned to a VHF broadcast station that's carried "on channel," i.e. 3 is on cable 3, 5 is on cable 5, etc, there's the possibility that the tv set will receive a broadcast station via the cable signal and via the airwaves at the same time due to a loose fitting, poor shielding in the set or other reasons. When this happens, the same picture arrives at the tv set twice, separated by a few microseconds or so. This causes a ghost in the image. By offering the VHF broadcast channels in digital format for STBs and cablecard-equipped sets, the ingress problem is neatly solved.


The UHF broadcasters aren't carried "on-channel," since cable channel 55 is an entirely different frequency than UHF channel 55, and it's the same for the other UHF stations, so there's no ingress issue to work around.


Now the way that a cable company _transports_ the broadcast channel between the headend and the neighborhood can be analog, digital or some combination of both methods depending on the requirements of the system.


.


----------



## Inundated

And this "analog cable carriage" of local broadcast stations on cable, even now that analog is gone, will continue as posted above.


Cable systems can only ditch the analog carriage of the over-air stations if they switch entirely to digital, like Massillon Cable is doing.


----------



## nickdawg

About 2 minutes before midnight I noticed my TV without a TWC box stopped working. My digital boxes work fine, but the one with just the cable line has fuzz on every channel.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16639902
> 
> 
> About 2 minutes before midnight I noticed my TV without a TWC box stopped working. My digital boxes work fine, but the one with just the cable line has fuzz on every channel.



just noticed that also, though only stations from 19.2-41.0 are the only stations missing on both my cable only TV's. tried rescanning and nothing.


----------



## subavision212

actually that problem is only on my new LCD with a QAM tuner in the bedroom. on my living set I only have 15, 18 and 41-77.


----------



## subavision212

and when I put the LCD on air and scanned no channels 2-14, just 14-26, no 22 though. pretty strange. hopefully things will be normal in the morning.


----------



## subavision212

well, it's around 1:20am and things seem to be back to normal. got all my stations back.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, the DTV transition is over. TWC is finally adding HD channels. Guess that explains why this place is so silent.


What should we discuss here now? Sports, Music, Movies, TV Shows, Current Events?


----------



## Inundated

Nah, we can start bitching that the June 15th wave of TWC HD channels won't show up exactly at 12:01 AM that day.


----------



## hookbill

I want to ***** about the fact that analog recordings take more disk space on my DVR then digital SD. This unfortunately leads me to the fact that all, and I do mean all the analog channels I recorded on are now in HD which takes even more disk space. And since TW, in its infinite wisdom has decided to make all non local HD channels copy protected I can't move them from my DVR to my computer or the other DVR to make room. Thats what I'll ***** about.


Now I could still record these shows in analog still which takes up 1/2 the disk space of HD but who's going to do that? Whats so stupid about TW's decision is all these shows are not copy protected (in my area) since they are not digital.


And this isn't TW's fault but the only reason I'm sitting here bitching at all is because my Dodger game is delayed due to the fact that Texas Rangers apparently cannot pay their lighting bill or have engineers who don't know what they are doing.


----------



## hookbill

Why is my name in brown now? nickdawgs was for a while but I figured maybe he did that on purpose. Am I in trouble again?


----------



## berenga

Did a re-scan of my digital TVs and Sony HD DVRs (with TW cable, all cable ready, no set top box) Nothing different I could see. All tune in same basic channels + all clear QAM digital SD and High-Def locals. The DTV transition - a non-issue for me. Hope it went smoothly for everyone else.


----------



## nickdawg

I really, really, really, really hope the TWC cable never goes out now. If it does, the only thing I''ll be able to watch is the WKYC nightlight channel. A quick trip through the TV channels with just an antenna connected, ass I get is WKYC analog. Everything else is fuzz. Wow, I can't believe it is gone.


----------



## TLaz

Does anyone with a DiSH 722/622 receiver pick up the audio on WEAO subchannel 3 (49.3) via OTA? I can get the video but not the audio, the other subchannels video and audio come in fine.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16645425
> 
> 
> Why is my name in brown now? nickdawgs was for a while but I figured maybe he did that on purpose. Am I in trouble again?



Maybe mine was brown because they think I am full of s---!!


----------



## Vchat20

hookbill: It's been covered before and while TWC definitely NEEDS to get on the ball in your area (considering I am fairly sure your 2-99 channels are being fed digitally up there in the system but just not in the channel listings pushed to the STBs. If they weren't, they'd have a helluva lot more bandwidth on their hands than they claim.) and start sending those channels digitally to those with boxes. It is just rediculous. Here in legacy territory we have had 2-99 fed as digital for a long while with the only exception being a few local access channels and even those have went digital recently.


The reason why the analogs take up so much space is kind of a total hammering on the Tivo or even TW's own STBs. The mpeg2 encoder chips in those boxes aren't of terribly high quality so will use more bitrate than needed for decent quality compared to higher quality encoders employed by TW at their headends. Combine in all the interference from the analog signal to exacerbate that. And compare that to the 4-5 figure encoders TW employs with minimal or no interference and then added compression to get the bitrates down and you can start to see the connection.


Of course this has all been discussed and beat to death before.







Maybe you can just put a bug in the ear of your headend contact there or at least see if there's a given reason why they haven't started feeding you guys those channels digitally yet?


Also, berenga: This is one of the things all these transition ads were trying to clear up. You aren't going to see a change if you are viewing these channels through cable since the transition doesn't affect them. It only affects you if you are receiving them through an antenna. Example here being I used to pull in 21,21-1,21-2,27,27-1,27-2, and 33 with the non-dash channels being the analogs. Now I only get 21-1, 21-2, 27-1, and 27-2. Those analogs are byebye for good and in their place nice crips high-def digital broadcasts often beating the pants off of what is coming across on cable.


Edit: Hopefully if I get up early enough I can finally get around to wiring my outdoor antenna back up and do a rescan and see what I can pick up this time around. Would love to pull in some cleveland stations but doubt it without a good directional+amp.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16646829
> 
> 
> hookbill: It's been covered before and while TWC definitely NEEDS to get on the ball in your area (considering I am fairly sure your 2-99 channels are being fed digitally up there in the system but just not in the channel listings pushed to the STBs. If they weren't, they'd have a helluva lot more bandwidth on their hands than they claim.) and start sending those channels digitally to those with boxes. It is just rediculous. Here in legacy territory we have had 2-99 fed as digital for a long while with the only exception being a few local access channels and even those have went digital recently.
> 
> 
> The reason why the analogs take up so much space is kind of a total hammering on the Tivo or even TW's own STBs. The mpeg2 encoder chips in those boxes aren't of terribly high quality so will use more bitrate than needed for decent quality compared to higher quality encoders employed by TW at their headends. Combine in all the interference from the analog signal to exacerbate that. And compare that to the 4-5 figure encoders TW employs with minimal or no interference and then added compression to get the bitrates down and you can start to see the connection.
> 
> 
> Of course this has all been discussed and beat to death before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you can just put a bug in the ear of your headend contact there or at least see if there's a given reason why they haven't started feeding you guys those channels digitally yet?



You forgot to include the picture of the guy beating a dead horse. That's hilarious if anybody has it repost it.


And yeah I'm beating a dead horse but I wanted to ***** and complain and hey why not something that still irritates the crap out of me?

















What TWC needs to do and what will never be done is take copy protection of channels that really don't need or want it, not just put it on every channel they please. I wish I knew somebody down in native TW land who had a TiVo, I'd love to see if those "digital" channels you receive in the 2-99 area are actually 0X01. Under TW's theory of "protect anything digital" they would not be.


I don't know if satellite has any home media offerings or if the new TiVo they have will even provide that (the old D-TiVo's did not). Any Satellite people around with a DVR? Does it have home media, in other words the ability to transfer to a computer? And if so can you do that with all channels?


If satellite offers this that IMHO is a huge advantage over cable. Just give me a clear signal and the end of my service contract on my TiVos and I'm gone.


Except one of my TiVo's is lifetime. Crap. Well it will break someday in the next 20 years.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16647135
> 
> 
> I wish I knew somebody down in native TW land who had a TiVo, I'd love to see if those "digital" channels you receive in the 2-99 area are actually 0X01. Under TW's theory of "protect anything digital" they would not be.



Actually, they are all 0x02 outside the locals (and even a few locals that I spotted last night are marked 0x02 for some reason which is a big no-no). Weather Channel and Discovery used to be copy freely in there but they are no 0x02 along with everything else. Yeah, it's terribly stupid. Need to get a boot up someone's arse at TWC.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16647135
> 
> 
> I don't know if satellite has any home media offerings or if the new TiVo they have will even provide that (the old D-TiVo's did not). Any Satellite people around with a DVR? Does it have home media, in other words the ability to transfer to a computer? And if so can you do that with all channels?



I dunno tbh. Last I recall though with the original mpeg2 D-Tivo's that were just as easy to hack as the standalone series1 and series2 models you could copy just about everything over without any home media option whatsoever. But they were essentially clones of the standalone boxes with the DTV hardware added.


Though that says nothing about their 1st party DVRs or even when they decide to come out with the new Tivo boxes. My only guess is they naturally have everything locked down in that respect too. It's more down to the entertainment industry and the content providers on how much they want to put the screws down on the copy protection BS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16649220
> 
> 
> Though that says nothing about their 1st party DVRs or even when they decide to come out with the new Tivo boxes. My only guess is they naturally have everything locked down in that respect too. It's more down to the entertainment industry and the content providers on how much they want to put the screws down on the copy protection BS.



Mark Cuban came out and said he wanted HDnet and HDnet movies to be copy freely. We know that didn't happen at TW.


I guess I could have just as easily asked if anybody who has a TiVo with another cable company seems the same type of copy protection.


So you cannot copy freely on 2-99, huh? Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.


----------



## nickdawg












^^At this whole "copying" dialogue. Am I the only one who really doesn't give a crap?


----------



## nickdawg

I'm just disturbed by the fact there are no new channels listed for the end of June. What's going on? I remember that the man said they would be coming every month until the end of the year. Why stop now?


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16645418
> 
> 
> And since TW, in its infinite wisdom has decided to make all non local HD channels copy protected I can't move them from my DVR to my computer or the other DVR to make room. Thats what I'll ***** about.
> 
> 
> Now I could still record these shows in analog still which takes up 1/2 the disk space of HD but who's going to do that? Whats so stupid about TW's decision is all these shows are not copy protected (in my area) since they are not digital.



Why do you thjink this is just a TW decision.the content producers are the one who choose to enforce copy privilages and it makes perfect sense if you were a content producer to prohibit digital copying of their material so they can get you to buy THEIR season 2 DVD box set of whatever.


if ya wanna *****, ***** in the right direction


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16651438
> 
> 
> Why do you thjink this is just a TW decision.the content producers are the one who choose to enforce copy privilages and it makes perfect sense if you were a content producer to prohibit digital copying of their material so they can get you to buy THEIR season 2 DVD box set of whatever.
> 
> 
> if ya wanna *****, ***** in the right direction



I dunno who to actually blame though because a number of these channels have been open to copy for a while and only recently did they switch them. So is it TWC being a pain in the arse or the content providers catching up to them?


And there are other providers in certain areas that are copy freely all across the board except maybe some extreme cases like the movie channel premiums (HBO, Showtime, etc.).


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16649275
> 
> 
> Mark Cuban came out and said he wanted HDnet and HDnet movies to be copy freely. We know that didn't happen at TW.
> 
> 
> I guess I could have just as easily asked if anybody who has a TiVo with another cable company seems the same type of copy protection.
> 
> 
> So you cannot copy freely on 2-99, huh? Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.



Cuban can come out and say all he wants BUT if he isnt the content producer ( yes I know some of it he was) he really has no say in it.


I doubt TW or anyone else for that matter is going to have people standing by to change copy privilages for his produced shows and then switch back.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16651466
> 
> 
> I dunno who to actually blame though because a number of these channels have been open to copy for a while and only recently did they switch them. So is it TWC being a pain in the arse or the content providers catching up to them?
> 
> 
> And there are other providers in certain areas that are copy freely all across the board except maybe some extreme cases like the movie channel premiums (HBO, Showtime, etc.).



I would suspect you'll start to see that change as everyone tries to squeeze more blood from the rock.


I think the reasons have been because of uncertainity in the rules. look at the issues with blocking a majority of commercials on streaming audio. that happen becuae of issues with the actors unions demanding a piece of the pie for streaming the commercial ( like radio stations are making much of anything for their streaming feeds)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16651438
> 
> 
> Why do you thjink this is just a TW decision.the content producers are the one who choose to enforce copy privilages and it makes perfect sense if you were a content producer to prohibit digital copying of their material so they can get you to buy THEIR season 2 DVD box set of whatever.
> 
> 
> if ya wanna *****, ***** in the right direction



You ought to do your home work bud. What channels get copy protected at the discretion of the cable provider. I've fought this months ago appealing to the President of Time Warner and I'm not talking Steve Fry. It is completely up to the cable company.


Now usually I will accept what somebody else might say like Vchat or Cathode Kid but I have thoroughly researched this. So don't come in here being disrespectful.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16651536
> 
> 
> You ought to do your home work bud. What channels get copy protected at the discretion of the cable provider. I've fought this months ago appealing to the President of Time Warner and I'm not talking Steve Fry. It is completely up to the cable company.
> 
> 
> Now usually I will accept what somebody else might say like Vchat or Cathode Kid but I have thoroughly researched this. So don't come in here being disrespectful.



copy protection is at the discresasion of the cable company?

source please...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/16651619
> 
> 
> copy protection is at the discresasion of the cable company?
> 
> source please...



You want the source? I just told you the source. I'm the source. I researched from FCC filings to CableLabs. The only thing it says is that it is entirely up to the cable companies as to what gets copy protection.


Now I can't tell you exactly where I went because I've known this for over 6 months so you do your own research. That's why I called the President's office to complain about their policy. All they told me was that is their policy and here's 20 bucks have a good day.


Now I want you to apply a little common sense here if you would be so kind. HBO, any of the premium services yes, they should be copy protected. But who really cares about copy protection on an old American Wrestling Association program. Nobody. Yet that gets copy protected. That is a result of policy, not the content provider.


All I can tell you in summary is I did my homework and I have no case. I do know who is responsible and it's Time Warner. Other cable companies do not carry the same policy. Did you not see where I said Mark Cuban wanted HDnet to be copy free, yet TW refused because of their "all digital 0x02" policy.


This wasn't always the case. This came about oh I say a year ago. Digital channels were 0x01 but TW changed all that over night. No mandate forced them to. It was done simply to cover their buts at the expense of people like me who spent a whole bunch of money so we could have equipment that would allow us to copy from our TiVos to our computers or to another TiVo. They simply didn't care.


Common sense. I can copy freely a baseball game on ESPN but I can't copy it on ESPNHD. If ESPN had something to say about it they wouldn't allow copy at all on ESPN. But if you can do it on analog, why the heck not on HD. And if you can do it on analog then why should TW natives be forced to not have the ability to use their equipment to transfer shows that are exactly the same except they have it in it's digital form.


No sir, this is strictly TW policy and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.


Except *****. And I'm done bitching tonight. You can feel free to see if I'm wrong, you spend months looking for a way around it. There is none. Up to the cable provider, bottom line.


----------



## hookbill

And while I'm at it nickdawg, quit your complaining about copy protection there are apparently some others who do care. Just because you don't doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it. Now in the words of Mick Foley, who I can only copy on SPIKE TV analog, HAVE A NICE DAY!


----------



## Vchat20

Believe me hookbill. I'm on the same side as you on that rant. Just like your Tivo, me being able to transfer DVR'd recordings over firewire completely relies on those copy protection flags. Copy Never and Copy Once mean the incoming firewire signal is corrupted/encrypted (even though I still see ~15m/s on HD in VLC) and Copy Freely of course gives a working feed.


It's extremely frustrating as it is having so few channels open even really lowly channels at that. But TWC going all out and wiping out just about everything is just total nonsense and BS.


Especially when it comes to SD 480i channels. I mean, what's the deal? Especially with how compressed to **** they are.


I can just as easily get by their copy protection if I want using either a SD capture card via S-Video and lossless video or Hauppage's HD capture box. But it's more hassle than just letting the box do the work and just transfer the original format across as they feed it through the cable.


----------



## nickdawg

I will admit that I am just about clueless on this issue, but I'll offer my take on it. Whatever TWC is doing, there has to be a reason for it. I highly doubt this copy protection is a "OOPSIES, we forgot to press a button/flip a switch" kind of thing. Cable companies must be getting some heat from content providers/media companies. You mention that SD is compressed to death; look at You Tube. That is the very definition of compressed to death, yet we still hear about videos being pulled for "copyright reasons". They don't care whether or not the video is barely watchable, they still pull it. I've seen some music videos on YT where you can barely make out who is in it, but the content still gets the attention of the media companies.


My point is why get your panties in a wad over such a small, minor issue? If the program cannot be copied, don't copy it!! Whoopee. What possible reason for copying can there be? Oh wait; ARRRRGGH, matey!!










Which pisses me off when people pirate movies because then I have to sit through and unfast-forwardable commercial on DVDs I rent/buy comparing some puke computer hacker to a crook stealing DVDs from a store. Which is a bulls**t analogy think that the content should be unrestricted. Which then leads back to the movie companies being pissed and punishing us with ads, which makes me want all content protected..............................


Repeat the above a few dozen times before I throw my hands up in the air and say whatever. Life's too short to bicker about a non-issue.


Hook: just put that clown you argued with on the Ignore list. I won't even waste my time engaging them.


Anyway, back to a good topic. How about those new HD channels tomorrow?


----------



## Vchat20

I don't know whether your attribution of wanting to copy these shows to pirating was a joke or not but for the sake of argument lets say you were being serious for a second: There are TONS of reasons for wanting to copy it. Hookbill has a very damned good reason being that he can transfer them from a tivo in one room to one in another and watch it WHERE he wants. That's not pirating, that's just fair use.


Me? I have a little less use for such a thing that falls under "fair use", I will give you that. A lot of my use of it a couple weeks ago was taking a handful of music videos off Palladia and uploading them to YT in 720p (though YT and the labels are making money off these with their 'content ID' system and inserting relevant ads for the music labels and links to buy the music). But there are some cases of this use that is perfectly legit. Such as taking shows I want to watch and copy them to the laptop so I can watch them if I go out of town. I did this with Mythbusters for a couple episodes in HD as well as some L&O:SVU episodes.


Not everyone is out to screw the content providers intentionally. We just want to be given more fair use rights to the content rather than being treated like we're cold blooded murderers.


----------



## Vchat20

I also want to add that one major wtf I am seeing here is on my 8240HDC there are quite a lot of programs/channels where it will only let me set a reminder and not record. And I mean a LOT. And these are just standard broadcast channels.


Absolutely no idea what smart-alecs at TWC screwed up this time.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16652349
> 
> 
> Hookbill has a very damned good reason being that he can transfer them from a tivo in one room to one in another and watch it WHERE he wants. That's not pirating, that's just fair use.



I think you should be able to watch DVR shows on another TV with a box. I wish TWC had that feature. But if TWC doesn't have that feature on their own boxes, I don't see why they should support it for a competitor's equipment. Just think how you would feel if you were running the company and you were losing $12 a month to people getting Tivos.











> Quote:
> Me? I have a little less use for such a thing that falls under "fair use", I will give you that. A lot of my use of it a couple weeks ago was taking a handful of music videos off Palladia and uploading them to YT in 720p (though YT and the labels are making money off these with their 'content ID' system and inserting relevant ads for the music labels and links to buy the music).



How long did they last before they were pulled? I know YT goes after videos that are not posted by "official" users like Universal and other companies.



> Quote:
> But there are some cases of this use that is perfectly legit. Such as taking shows I want to watch and copy them to the laptop so I can watch them if I go out of town. I did this with Mythbusters for a couple episodes in HD as well as some L&O:SVU episodes.



Sounds like too much trouble. I just watch everything I record on TV. Besides, I got a big HDTV. I'm not about to give myself a downgrade like that.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16652451
> 
> 
> I also want to add that one major wtf I am seeing here is on my 8240HDC there are quite a lot of programs/channels where it will only let me set a reminder and not record. And I mean a LOT. And these are just standard broadcast channels.
> 
> 
> Absolutely no idea what smart-alecs at TWC screwed up this time.



There are HD channels about to come very soon. Maybe something was messed up during that process?


And where are the next HD channels? I noticed that TWC is not listing the next batch of HD channels after June 15. What happened to "we're always adding new HD channels" and adding them all year?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652462
> 
> 
> I think you should be able to watch DVR shows on another TV with a box. I wish TWC had that feature. But if TWC doesn't have that feature on their own boxes, I don't see why they should support it for a competitor's equipment. Just think how you would feel if you were running the company and you were losing $12 a month to people getting Tivos.



Wow. Elitist much? They aren't losing THAT much considering the cost of cablecards they are gouging people.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652462
> 
> 
> How long did they last before they were pulled? I know YT goes after videos that are not posted by "official" users like Universal and other companies.



Actually they are still there. If you read my post: They have gotten more smart and if their tools see it has copyrighted music in it, they'll attribute it to the proper copyright owners and add in ads and purchase links on the page. Rather than taking the old draconian routes.


Here is what I am talking about: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...8351B597550F3E 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652462
> 
> 
> Sounds like too much trouble. I just watch everything I record on TV. Besides, I got a big HDTV. I'm not about to give myself a downgrade like that.



Maybe some of us aren't couch potatoes and have places to be and stuff to do once in a while? What if I had a laptop with HDMI and a good HD set where I was going to? Would I be any less allowed to placeshift those recordings to watch them where I want?


I'm not gonna jump to total conclusions but that post made my 'Alphabet-soup-co-o-meter' tweak a little.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16652530
> 
> 
> Wow. Elitist much? They aren't losing THAT much considering the cost of cablecards they are gouging people.



Nope. Not elitist. I hate paying the cable bill as much as the next guy, but I can understand that they want to make money.



> Quote:
> Actually they are still there. If you read my post: They have gotten more smart and if their tools see it has copyrighted music in it, they'll attribute it to the proper copyright owners and add in ads and purchase links on the page. Rather than taking the old draconian routes.
> 
> 
> Here is what I am talking about: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...8351B597550F3E



Good for You Tube!! It's about time they stop their ridiculous nonsense. I've seen/heard a few cases where they mute the sound on people's videos if they have 'copyright' music in them.


Also, in this video I see you have the same problem as I do(the picture broke up briefly at the beginning). Also, is YT stretching videos or is that how you uploaded it?



> Quote:
> Maybe some of us aren't couch potatoes and have places to be and stuff to do once in a while? What if I had a laptop with HDMI and a good HD set where I was going to? Would I be any less allowed to placeshift those recordings to watch them where I want?



When I go out, I "go out", minus being tethered to modern electronic devices. I like to be outside for the sake of being outside, last thing I want is to bring the boob tube with me. I seem to be a minority in my generation when it comes to this.










Sounds alot like taking a detour between point A and B. If the shows are already on the DVR, why send them to the computer then back to the TV? I like keeping it simple.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652545
> 
> 
> Nope. Not elitist. I hate paying the cable bill as much as the next guy, but I can understand that they want to make money.



*shrug* As far as I am concerned they are getting just about the same profits from Tivo/Cablecard customers after all the hidden bean-counter costs and fees are taken into account. Granted they have no chance of getting PPV/VOD purchases, but some people with their boxes don't even go those routes (VOD movies are a very rare thing these days in this household now that I have found out how to flawlessly play 1080p bluray's on my computer with a remote out to HDMI to the tv. Purchase the discs then download the rips and convert them to mpeg2 -sameq in ffmpeg. No loss.)


But this is all semantecs since I doubt this was the particular reason they did what they did with this copy protection business. If it was, it would raise quite a stink with a lot of different parties and put them in a legal/PR bind.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652545
> 
> 
> Good for You Tube!! It's about time they stop their ridiculous nonsense. I've seen/heard a few cases where they mute the sound on people's videos if they have 'copyright' music in them.



I have heard of that too and had it happen on one of my older uploads. I think it only applied to stuff uploaded a long while ago rather than recent stuff.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652545
> 
> 
> Also, in this video I see you have the same problem as I do(the picture broke up briefly at the beginning). Also, is YT stretching videos or is that how you uploaded it?



Just converted over to 720p keeping 16:9 and YT's player fills out as it is 16:9 already. That particular video I think had a narrower aspect. Like 2.35:1 or something.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16652545
> 
> 
> When I go out, I "go out", minus being tethered to modern electronic devices. I like to be outside for the sake of being outside, last thing I want is to bring the boob tube with me. I seem to be a minority in my generation when it comes to this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds alot like taking a detour between point A and B. If the shows are already on the DVR, why send them to the computer then back to the TV? I like keeping it simple.



Well in this particular case it was visiting my brother for a week in Columbus and having some last minute new episodes that recorded that I wanted to catch. Yeah, I could have waited til I got back or something. But I was gonna have the computer with me anyway so why not?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16652598
> 
> 
> Just converted over to 720p keeping 16:9 and YT's player fills out as it is 16:9 already. That particular video I think had a narrower aspect. Like 2.35:1 or something.



I should probably also add a footnote that on playback on the box there are no such glitches whatsoever. Only after it is transferred over firewire. I have always attributed it to the cpu power and bogging down with Navigator on the box as the glitches improved slightly when the ODN v3 upgrade came in and SD 480i is nearly spotless.


Though hardware accel'd decoders like Nvidia's Purevideo software and GPU features and some software decoders like the one built into ffmpeg and other software based on the same opensource code handle the glitches much better. All those videos would probably be completely unwatchable otherwise.


----------



## nickdawg

Did anyone get the new channels yet? I just checked and I see nothing. I guess they're really using the "on of after" this time around!!


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16656230
> 
> 
> Did anyone get the new channels yet? I just checked and I see nothing. I guess they're really using the "on of after" this time around!!



I thought it was tomorrow..June 16


----------



## mobgre

On now in N. Olmsted


Travel 454

Lifetime Movies 463

AMC 464

Speed 480

ESPNU 434

VS.HD 440


Wow, 51 total HD channels now.


----------



## Wagaroni

My Tivo just got the updated guide data in Green but the channels don't work yet:


Added:

434 ESPNUHD

440 VSHD

454 TRAVHD

463 LMNHD

464 AMCHD

469 BIOHD

480 SPEEDHD

740 GAMEHD


Deleted:

469 PLDHD

480 HDMVDM



Are we losing Palladia?


----------



## nickdawg

After a reboot, the new channels are here. I'm happy that they decided to get rid of the VOD portal on 480 and replace it with Speed HD. I hope there's plans to get rid of the portal on 479 as well, since it slows down channel surfing.


No, I still have PALHD on 469. It must be a Tivo thing.


----------



## nickdawg

Also, I noticed they removed 436 and 437. I guess that 24/7 simulcast of FSN isn't coming anytime soon.







Now pressing either one of those channel numbers takes me to 438.


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg you will be happy to hear that TVs copy restriction really doesn't affect me as much as you think.


Its simply a matter of freedom to use my equipment to full capacity. But since TW cannot restrict local broadcast including HD and I do the vast majority of recording off the networks I'm still able to transfer from TiVo to TiVo or computer. And with my eSata drives having disk space is really not a problem.


I'm really surprised at your attitude towards copy restriction. You come off as saying " Well if I can't do it nobody should."


Like I said there is nothing I can do about it. I just have to think ahead as to where we watch things. Matter of fact I record quite a few things on Showtime and HBO and I agree that should be restricted.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16657862
> 
> 
> Nickdawg you will be happy to hear that TVs copy restriction really doesn't affect me as much as you think.
> 
> 
> Its simply a matter of freedom to use my equipment to full capacity. But since TW cannot restrict local broadcast including HD and I do the vast majority of recording off the networks I'm still able to transfer from TiVo to TiVo or computer. And with my eSata drives having disk space is really not a problem.
> *
> 
> I'm really surprised at your attitude towards copy restriction. You come off as saying " Well if I can't do it nobody should."*
> 
> 
> Like I said there is nothing I can do about it. I just have to think ahead as to where we watch things. Matter of fact I record quite a few things on Showtime and HBO and I agree that should be restricted.



That's right. If TWC won't allow multi-room viewing for their customers with TWC equipment, why would you think I'd want TWC to support it for customers with other equipment?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16657978
> 
> 
> That's right. If TWC won't allow multi-room viewing for their customers with TWC equipment, why would you think I'd want TWC to support it for customers with other equipment?



I hope you didn't miss my point. I can indeed not only transfer from DVR to DVR, I can also transfer to my computer any analog and all locals.


The reason you can't do it is because your DVR is not capable of doing it.


Its not that TW wants to restrict TiVo users. Its a matter of how they decided to cover there ass. I honestly don't think its a method of retaining their customers.


I want to remind you that most people are happy with the SA8300. Most people are like you except you are more knowledgeable about DVRs. TiVo is for people like me who want more then a very basic DVR. So copy restriction really doesn't affect the base customer. Unless someone can afford the initial cost they would not jump to a TiVo. And remember we have to pay for cable cards. So its not like they lose that much money on equipment rental.


Your argument doesn't make sense. Unless its purely selfish.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16658323
> 
> 
> Your argument doesn't make sense. *Unless its purely selfish.*



This gets my vote.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16657661
> 
> 
> After a reboot, the new channels are here. I'm happy that they decided to get rid of the VOD portal on 480 and replace it with Speed HD. I hope there's plans to get rid of the portal on 479 as well, since it slows down channel surfing.
> 
> 
> No, I still have PALHD on 469. It must be a Tivo thing.



Yep Tribune Media blew it out its butt. I will call it in.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16658382
> 
> 
> This gets my vote.



You sir, are correct.


What really gets me about the whole multi-room viewing thing is it IS possible. These SA boxes and the SARA software are capable of multi-room playback. But TWC chooses not to implement it. I've heard that it was beta tested in one or two markets and they had "problems" with it





















. Yeah right. Like "problems" stopped it. How many other things has TWC released that are full of problems? There's gotta be some huge, underlying problem why they aren't using it, just like the SARA to Navigator conversion.


But in the mean time, I get to be taunted by the AT&T commercials about "watching shows on any TV in the house". I am the guy with the TV cart chained to my ankle!


----------



## hookbill

Hey nickdawg do you need a little slack?










I basically use the transfer for conflicting shows on local network channels. Irs livable the way it is.


I don't really think you're selfish. Maybe a bit jealous.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16659118
> 
> 
> Hey nickdawg do you need a little slack?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically use the transfer for conflicting shows on local network channels. Irs livable the way it is.
> 
> 
> I don't really think you're selfish. Maybe a bit jealous.



Hey, I criticize Tivo. But I *never* said I _wasn't_ jealous of some Tivo features.






































I think all of the internet/online features are stupid, but I do like the key*word* search(instead of just title search) as well as the multi-room viewing. But the down side is you have to have another Tivo box. That means two $500 boxes plus $24 a month on service. And I have Three TVs. And I'd still have to pay the TWC bill.


----------



## WilliamR

NE Ohio Macedonia area, new channels are available and working. Sweet!


----------



## allthebetter

I know this isnt exactly on topic...


But I'm in cleveland...


Any experiance with a reputable Hiatachi service center?


Where who?


42hdt79 cycles on and of and on and off


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wagaroni* /forum/post/16657458
> 
> 
> My Tivo just got the updated guide data in Green but the channels don't work yet:
> 
> 
> Added:
> 
> 434 ESPNUHD
> 
> 440 VSHD
> 
> 454 TRAVHD
> 
> 463 LMNHD
> 
> 464 AMCHD
> 
> 469 BIOHD
> 
> 480 SPEEDHD
> 
> 740 GAMEHD
> 
> 
> Deleted:
> 
> 469 PLDHD
> 
> 480 HDMVDM
> 
> 
> 
> Are we losing Palladia?



Noticed 'em last night, NE Ohio, Lake County, Kirtland/Willoughby area; liking the Speed Channel HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *allthebetter* /forum/post/16659896
> 
> 
> I know this isnt exactly on topic...
> 
> 
> But I'm in cleveland...
> 
> 
> Any experiance with a reputable Hiatachi service center?
> 
> 
> Where who?
> 
> 
> 42hdt79 cycles on and of and on and off



First welcome to the forum and this thread. Yeah, it's really a HD TV topic but we don't mind drifting off from time to time.


I did a quick google to see what you were talking about. I noticed I saw 42hdt79 firmware was one of the topics. Perhaps there has been a firmware upgrade? You may want to google your model number and investigate.


Other then that I can't make any recommendations. If it isn't firmware the general rule of thumb these days is if it's broken, replace it. I know plasmas are expensive but who knows what the repair cost would be.


Good luck, if anybody else has a recommendation for Hitachi Service can you help this fellow?


----------



## hookbill

As I promised I phoned in to TiVo about Tribune Medias error on 469 Palladia. I am once again asking other TiVo people to phone it in as well. Get a ticket number.


They seemed really confused as the channels just got changed but I told them what was on and confirmed via my 4250. I always think it's a good idea to have a few people call, seems to get things done faster.


It will take 10 minutes of your time. TiVo Customer Service is 877.367.8486. Just follow the instructions and select HD problems. They will do a little research while on your on the phone which is why it takes 10 minutes but the last time Ed called in with me we got a whole line up changed within a week. It's worth the time.


Besides Elvis Costello was on Palladia last night! Had I have known I would have recorded.










Edit: I keep TiVo customer service on my speed dial. It's easier then searching around on their web for it. Just a thought.


----------



## hookbill

In regard to the new channels they all arrived fine at my house. Simply amazing. And the guide data was there on all equipment, didn't have to reboot or call TW for a hit to my cable cards. The only snag was the Palladia channel and that's Tribune Medias fault.


I have to say I'm pretty impressed by SDV and by how many HD channels TW has added on in such a short time. I haven't had any problems with SDV to the best of my knowledge. I've had some pixelation and sound drop offs on my MLB Extra Innings channels that may, and I emphasize the word "may" be a result of SDV but I saw that happening before SDV was implemented in my area so I'm not certain.


As far as I'm concerned if TW doesn't add anymore HD channels for a while I'm OK with it, out of the last batch I don't see myself watching any of them.


One last thing. Everybody missed one HD channel. Channel 740 MLB Extra Innings HD is here! Now I'm getting what I paid for with my package.


----------



## Ben Music

Anyone hear any news about when SDV is coming to the Elyria/Mentor area? (old Comcast) We must be last on the list. I called the SDV hotline to get my tuning adapter. It's all hooked up and ready to go, but so far, no joy.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16660884
> 
> 
> Anyone hear any news about when SDV is coming to the Elyria/Mentor area? (old Comcast) We must be last on the list. I called the SDV hotline to get my tuning adapter. It's all hooked up and ready to go, but so far, no joy.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Ben I believe I heard everything is suppose to be completed by end of June. Cathode Kid may have some info for you if he checks in, he seems to be the best source.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16660884
> 
> 
> Anyone hear any news about when SDV is coming to the Elyria/Mentor area? (old Comcast) We must be last on the list. I called the SDV hotline to get my tuning adapter. It's all hooked up and ready to go, but so far, no joy.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



If the Motorola boxes are in fact incompatible with SDV I would have expected to have heard about a change-out program for Motorola boxes to SA boxes by now. I will not be holding my breath until the new channels and SDV arrives in old Comcast area.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16661973
> 
> 
> If the Motorola boxes are in fact incompatible with SDV I would have expected to have heard about a change-out program for Motorola boxes to SA boxes by now. I will not be holding my breath until the new channels and SDV arrives in old Comcast area.
> 
> 
> Ray



I know that Comcast uses SDV. It may be that they can't get the system to work with those moto boxes.


In any case it's unfair. Now that's not to say I think they should take away the HD channels from us, it should be that they give you a price break since you're not getting full service.


This is exactly the kind of thing that Mr. Jassoe said they didn't want to happen, but they let it happen anyway.


Edit: Can you guys get the On Demand features with those Moto boxes?


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16662046
> 
> 
> I know that Comcast uses SDV. It may be that they can't get the system to work with those moto boxes.
> 
> 
> In any case it's unfair. Now that's not to say I think they should take away the HD channels from us, it should be that they give you a price break since you're not getting full service.
> 
> 
> This is exactly the kind of thing that Mr. Jassoe said they didn't want to happen, but they let it happen anyway.
> 
> 
> Edit: Can you guys get the On Demand features with those Moto boxes?



No On Demand on the Moto boxes.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16662274
> 
> 
> No On Demand on the Moto boxes.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Wow, talk about being treated as second class citizens! Guess either you're stuck or you don't want Satellite. Do they offer AT&T Uverse? I'll bet that's all Windstream like it is down here.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16662046
> 
> 
> Edit: Can you guys get the On Demand features with those Moto boxes?



Ben and I seem to be on different old Comcast systems. I CAN get On-Demand with my Motorola box.


Ray


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16660343
> 
> 
> As I promised I phoned in to TiVo about Tribune Medias error on 469 Palladia. I am once again asking other TiVo people to phone it in as well. Get a ticket number.
> 
> 
> They will do a little research while on your on the phone which is why it takes 10 minutes but the last time Ed called in with me we got a whole line up changed within a week. It's worth the time.



Yes I called too. This is not normal for TiVo/Tribune is it? Maybe it's because of the quantity of new channels in the past few months? I thought they were usually on the ball about updating the guide.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16663352
> 
> 
> Yes I called too. This is not normal for TiVo/Tribune is it? Maybe it's because of the quantity of new channels in the past few months? I thought they were usually on the ball about updating the guide.



They have done pretty good, better then last year but overall I think Tribune Media sucks. I'm surprised TiVo hasn't fired them. I could tell you horror stories some people have had trying to get guide data fixed. We've been lucky.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16662585
> 
> 
> Ben and I seem to be on different old Comcast systems. I CAN get On-Demand with my Motorola box.
> 
> 
> Ray



Hi Ray,


I'm out here in North Ridgeville which was part of the old Comcast Elyria/Mentor system. We haven't had any of the in or on demand channels for over 3+ years. Actually they show up in the guide, but when you click on one, nothing happens. Does your area have SDV yet? We are still waiting.


Ben Music


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16660343
> 
> 
> As I promised I phoned in to TiVo about Tribune Medias error on 469 Palladia. I am once again asking other TiVo people to phone it in as well. Get a ticket number.
> 
> 
> They seemed really confused as the channels just got changed but I told them what was on and confirmed via my 4250. I always think it's a good idea to have a few people call, seems to get things done faster.
> 
> 
> It will take 10 minutes of your time. TiVo Customer Service is 877.367.8486. Just follow the instructions and select HD problems. They will do a little research while on your on the phone which is why it takes 10 minutes but the last time Ed called in with me we got a whole line up changed within a week. It's worth the time.
> 
> 
> Besides Elvis Costello was on Palladia last night! Had I have known I would have recorded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit: I keep TiVo customer service on my speed dial. It's easier then searching around on their web for it. Just a thought.*



Now, I'm not so jealous of Tivo anymore.


----------



## Adam P

I'm getting the new channels, but I'm still getting Palladia on 469 even though my Guide info shows BioHD.


I'm also not getting MAVHD, SMITHHD or MGMHD. Just a grey screen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/16665137
> 
> 
> I'm getting the new channels, but I'm still getting Palladia on 469 even though my Guide info shows BioHD.
> 
> 
> I'm also not getting MAVHD, SMITHHD or MGMHD. Just a grey screen.



MAVHD and the others are an additional charge. And BIOHD is an error.


I requested TiVo people to call TiVo customer service to report it. We are suppose to have Palladia. Please look back a few post I provided Tivo number to report the guide error.


----------



## Adam P

Ok, that's what I suspected. I never cared enough to see if they were included in my programming.


----------



## lewis1982

this comes from ohio media watch, there will be more hd


Our sources at TWC say there are still more channels scheduled to be added between now and the end of the year, and we should learn more about the post-June list soon...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/16666370
> 
> 
> this comes from ohio media watch, there will be more hd
> 
> 
> Our sources at TWC say there are still more channels scheduled to be added between now and the end of the year, and we should learn more about the post-June list soon...



There was a lot more to that then just what lewis1982 posted here. This is one of the reason I always think that it's a good idea to post a link to the page you are referring to.


Also on that page is some mention about the SDV transition still not being completed. Apparently Elyria and Mentor are still not even on the drawing board, at least thats what I came away from reading it. You can look here yourself.


Also of mention an OTA issue that was talked about when we were one so to speak. The fact that FOX 8 has been unobtainable over so much of the area. The link starts off with that story. Apparently WJW isn't putting out the power that we all thought they were. Interesting reading take a look if you have an opportunity.


Have a good day gentlemen. You too, nickdawg.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16663416
> 
> 
> Hi Ray,
> 
> 
> I'm out here in North Ridgeville which was part of the old Comcast Elyria/Mentor system. We haven't had any of the in or on demand channels for over 3+ years. Actually they show up in the guide, but when you click on one, nothing happens. Does your area have SDV yet? We are still waiting.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I'm in Mentor. My OnDemand works fine. There have been occasions when the system would not let me view something but after a few minutes it would work. I usually only look at free stuff but last New Years Eve we had a few friends over for the evening and we wanted to watch Batman The Dark Knight. When I went to order it, it would not work. I called and they had a recorded message that they were working on the problem. After 30 minutes I tried again and it worked fine.


I dont think I have SDV yet. I looked at that link posted a few weeks back to find your "headend" and it showed no SDV. I have a Moto box HD DVR and a HD SA4250. I do not have any of the new channels in the last two updates. The last batch I recieved was the USA, History, DHD, DiscoverHD, PalHD.


I think we just need to be patient and place bets on weather Elyria or Mentor gets SDV and the new channels first. Since Mentor has OnDemand working I bet Mentor gets it before Elyria. Hopefully they turn us bothe on together and soon.


Ray


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16667265
> 
> 
> I'm in Mentor. My OnDemand works fine. There have been occasions when the system would not let me view something but after a few minutes it would work. I usually only look at free stuff but last New Years Eve we had a few friends over for the evening and we wanted to watch Batman The Dark Knight. When I went to order it, it would not work. I called and they had a recorded message that they were working on the problem. After 30 minutes I tried again and it worked fine.
> 
> 
> I dont think I have SDV yet. I looked at that link posted a few weeks back to find your "headend" and it showed no SDV. I have a Moto box HD DVR and a HD SA4250. I do not have any of the new channels in the last two updates. The last batch I recieved was the USA, History, DHD, DiscoverHD, PalHD.
> 
> 
> I think we just need to be patient and place bets on weather Elyria or Mentor gets SDV and the new channels first. Since Mentor has OnDemand working I bet Mentor gets it before Elyria. Hopefully they turn us bothe on together and soon.
> 
> 
> Ray



Here in Amherst we are in the same situation as you are. Our on demand works, but slowly and no SDV. I talk to a Time Warner employee a couple of weeks ago that they had to switch out all the Moto boxes with SA's. He said they hoping for the end of June, knowing Time Warner I suspect more like the end of July.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16667319
> 
> 
> Here in Amherst we are in the same situation as you are. Our on demand works, but slowly and no SDV. I talk to a Time Warner employee a couple of weeks ago that they had to switch out all the Moto boxes with SA's. *He said they hoping for the end of June, knowing Time Warner I suspect more like the end of July.*



This is the first time I heard that they indeed have to switch out the boxes. I always suspected as much.


I don't think they can pull that off by the end of June either, but who knows?


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16667319
> 
> 
> Here in Amherst we are in the same situation as you are. Our on demand works, but slowly and no SDV. I talk to a Time Warner employee a couple of weeks ago that they had to switch out all the Moto boxes with SA's. He said they hoping for the end of June, knowing Time Warner I suspect more like the end of July.



As I mentiond on one of my earlier post, If in fact they need to replace Moto Boxes I would think we would have gotten some sort of notice or letter about the indent to do so. This will take weeks if they expect to "truck roll" the change out. The next weekday I'm off work I will swap mine out myself. I have been having some problems with the controls being unresponsive at times.


Ray


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16667338
> 
> 
> This is the first time I heard that they indeed have to switch out the boxes. I always suspected as much.
> 
> 
> I don't think they can pull that off by the end of June either, but who knows?



You would have thought that it would just as cheap for Time Warner to give all the people who have analog only, boxes for digital, do away with analog and not do the SDV. With all that bandwidth we could still have all the HD channels we wanted.

My son has it that way in Washington DC with his cable company, not Time Warner, and he has the same Moto box that we have here and he has more HD channels that we ever will have.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16667411
> 
> 
> You would have thought that it would just as cheap for Time Warner to give all the people who have analog only, boxes for digital, do away with analog and not do the SDV. With all that bandwidth we could still have all the HD channels we wanted.
> 
> My son has it that way in Washington DC with his cable company, not Time Warner, and he has the same Moto box that we have here and he has more HD channels that we ever will have.



Yes, we have talked about that. Only problem I can see is with basic cable. Can they limit those boxes to just receiving basic lifeline cable? If not they would charge for digital service and expanded basic. That I believe is probably where the problem lies.


One other thing I kind of doubt they will do a truck roll switch out. I'm willing to bet they FEDEX the boxes to you and have you either ship them back at their cost or bring them in. It's cheaper for them to do it that way.


----------



## Rbuchina




hookbill said:


> Yes, we have talked about that. Only problem I can see is with basic cable. Can they limit those boxes to just receiving basic lifeline cable? If not they would charge for digital service and expanded basic. That I believe is probably where the problem lies.
> 
> *One other thing I kind of doubt they will do a truck roll switch out. I'm willing to bet they FEDEX the boxes to you and have you either ship them back at their cost or bring them in. It's cheaper for them to do it that way.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sence. I never considered a delivery swap out. After the dissapointing ernings Fed Ex released this morning they will probably appreciate the extra work.
> 
> 
> Ray


----------



## nickdawg

I've been having sporadic cable outages over the last hour or so, there's heavy thunderstorms. So the TV finally came back on. I was on channel 3, standard definition. I see there is a banner at the bottom of the screen about a Tornado Warning for Tuscarawas. When I flipped over to WKYC HD, there's nothing. No banner at the bottom of the screen. WTF? It looks like WKYC is still sending their old analog OTA channel to TWC as a fiber feed. Why? How pointless is that to send the analog version to TWC and only have the Tornado Warning banner on the analog channel? Anybody else without cable won't be able to see it. Since OTA viewers are using the HDTV channel, they're missing the warning. Only cable/satellite viewers with fiber feeds can see it. Also, I checked the analog "nightlight" channel, and it has the same weather map as the SD version on cable.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16671417
> 
> 
> I've been having sporadic cable outages over the last hour or so, there's heavy thunderstorms. So the TV finally came back on. I was on channel 3, standard definition. I see there is a banner at the bottom of the screen about a Tornado Warning for Tuscarawas. When I flipped over to WKYC HD, there's nothing. No banner at the bottom of the screen. WTF? It looks like WKYC is still sending their old analog OTA channel to TWC as a fiber feed. Why? How pointless is that to send the analog version to TWC and only have the Tornado Warning banner on the analog channel? Anybody else without cable won't be able to see it. Since OTA viewers are using the HDTV channel, they're missing the warning. Only cable/satellite viewers with fiber feeds can see it. Also, I checked the analog "nightlight" channel, and it has the same weather map as the SD version on cable.



Hell, I could have told you that. There's no doubt that what they give us on all those channels is analog upgraded to digital. I mean have you ever seen a digital picture as bad as the ones on WOIO, and yeah I know don't get you started on them but I think that's the trick.


They send all this crap directly to TW via cable feed and upgrade it to digital. I've never seen your non locals but I'll bet they are upgraded to digital too. You ought to see what FX looks like in analog, it looks like a zebra theres so many stripes in it. I can't wait until I get to my HD recordings of Rescue Me.


I'm starting to rant now so I'll stop.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16671501
> 
> 
> Hell, I could have told you that. There's no doubt that what they give us on all those channels is analog upgraded to digital. I mean have you ever seen a digital picture as bad as the ones on WOIO, and yeah I know don't get you started on them but I think that's the trick.



You see Hookbill, since all my channels are digital, the locals have never looked better, except for WKYC. Since every other channel is using a digital/HD downconversion for SD, the picture has never looked better on WOIO, WJW, WBNX, WVIZ, WNEO, WEWS, etc. But WKYC still looks like crap. I couldn't figure it out, but now I know why. WKYC is still sending their ANALOG signal to TWC. Since every other channel is DIGITAL downconverted to ANALOG, it looks better. But WKYC is still an analog source, so it looks terrible.


Since TWC is now using digital sources to feed SD cable, I can't believe they didn't re-encode the SDTV local channels in digital for areas that don't have them yet. I've never seen SD PQ look better. It is the perfect storm of using digital sources as well as the elimination of analog SD channels 3, 5 and 8 that could cause interference.


I knew something was up at WKYC, since I watch Today in the morning on my SDTV in the bedroom and there is no time/temperature bug. But I can see it on WKYC HD on my living room flatscreen. Every other channel downconverts HD for SD. All the bugs/weather warnings are present on the SD channel as well. Plus the picture is better. This really bugs me that they are still using a crappy picture.



> Quote:
> They send all this crap directly to TW via cable feed and upgrade it to digital. I've never seen your non locals but I'll bet they are upgraded to digital too. You ought to see what FX looks like in analog, it looks like a zebra theres so many stripes in it. I can't wait until I get to my HD recordings of Rescue Me.
> 
> 
> I'm starting to rant now so I'll stop.



I have a TV without a box in an extra bedroom. I've noticed all the channels around F/X have stripes on them. Every channel looks bad, but some like F/X look even worse. I can't even imagine how awful that looks.


How many analog episodes do you still have? If I were you, I would delete those analog episodes and use the "wife's" TV to watch HD On Demand. The episodes are there in HD.


----------



## Wagaroni

Tivo guide data update came through:


Added:

469 PLDHD


Deleted

469 BIOHD


Thanks for calling it in.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wagaroni* /forum/post/16671803
> 
> 
> Tivo guide data update came through:
> 
> 
> Added:
> 
> 469 PLDHD
> 
> 
> Deleted
> 
> 469 BIOHD
> 
> 
> Thanks for calling it in.



Thanks for the update. That was quick.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16671582
> 
> 
> You see Hookbill, since all my channels are digital, the locals have never looked better, except for WKYC. Since every other channel is using a digital/HD downconversion for SD, the picture has never looked better on WOIO, WJW, WBNX, WVIZ, WNEO, WEWS, etc. But WKYC still looks like crap. I couldn't figure it out, but now I know why. WKYC is still sending their ANALOG signal to TWC. Since every other channel is DIGITAL downconverted to ANALOG, it looks better. But WKYC is still an analog source, so it looks terrible.
> 
> 
> Since TWC is now using digital sources to feed SD cable, I can't believe they didn't re-encode the SDTV local channels in digital for areas that don't have them yet. I've never seen SD PQ look better. It is the perfect storm of using digital sources as well as the elimination of analog SD channels 3, 5 and 8 that could cause interference.
> 
> 
> I knew something was up at WKYC, since I watch Today in the morning on my SDTV in the bedroom and there is no time/temperature bug. But I can see it on WKYC HD on my living room flatscreen. Every other channel downconverts HD for SD. All the bugs/weather warnings are present on the SD channel as well. Plus the picture is better. This really bugs me that they are still using a crappy picture.



Well then maybe the other non-legacy systems get a different digital SD feed, because I can tell you that the local SD's still look like crap on the legacy systems. I can clearly tell that they are analog signals that are digitally converted. WOIO, WNEO, WUAB, and WKYC all look like garbage still. I wish they would just down convert the HD feeds.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16675014
> 
> 
> Well then maybe the other non-legacy systems get a different digital SD feed, because I can tell you that the local SD's still look like crap on the legacy systems. I can clearly tell that they are analog signals that are digitally converted. WOIO, WNEO, WUAB, and WKYC all look like garbage still. *I wish they would just down convert the HD feeds*.



I agree with what you said but you kind of lost me on that last sentence. Why would you want to downgrade HD feeds?


To the best of my knowledge and from my own personal trials TW passes on the HD signal without any compression, at least thats true with OTA channels.


I use a program that actually measures the quality of signals and in a nutshell best is WEWS, worst is kind of a tie between WJW and WKYC. Our cable HD channels all show pretty much outstanding quality, even the SDV ones.


So why downgrade HD?


----------



## Dweezilz

I see that others were/are having issues with the new HD channels and getting 'Channel Unavilable' messages, but is everyone still getting this problem every single day even after rebooting the box multiple times? I have 3 TWC boxes and all have this problem every day. It seems it's just with the new HD channels that were added over the last 4 weeks. Some will be unavilable one minute and then if I scroll to a few good HD channels and then scroll back, they will sometimes tune in properly and sometimes not. Then all of a sudden randomly they all come in fine again. Then they might be unavailable again 20 minutes later...not good at all. Is this standard fare at this point or should I have them come out to take a look? I called TWC and their CSR's told me that they haven't heard of this issue and the only way to fix it would be to have someone come out to investigate.


With my luck, they'd come out and all the channels would be working at that moment. I'm sure that's what will happen!


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16675534
> 
> 
> I agree with what you said but you kind of lost me on that last sentence. Why would you want to downgrade HD feeds?
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge and from my own personal trials TW passes on the HD signal without any compression, at least thats true with OTA channels.
> 
> 
> I use a program that actually measures the quality of signals and in a nutshell best is WEWS, worst is kind of a tie between WJW and WKYC. Our cable HD channels all show pretty much outstanding quality, even the SDV ones.
> 
> 
> So why downgrade HD?



Sorry I may not have made it clear...


I was referring to downconverting the HD feeds for use on the SD channels (which look like crap).


...The HD feeds are compressed enough already!


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16671582
> 
> 
> You see Hookbill, since all my channels are digital, the locals have never looked better, except for WKYC. Since every other channel is using a digital/HD downconversion for SD, the picture has never looked better on WOIO, WJW, WBNX, WVIZ, WNEO, WEWS, etc. But WKYC still looks like crap. I couldn't figure it out, but now I know why. WKYC is still sending their ANALOG signal to TWC. Since every other channel is DIGITAL downconverted to ANALOG, it looks better. But WKYC is still an analog source, so it looks terrible.
> 
> 
> Since TWC is now using digital sources to feed SD cable, I can't believe they didn't re-encode the SDTV local channels in digital for areas that don't have them yet. I've never seen SD PQ look better. It is the perfect storm of using digital sources as well as the elimination of analog SD channels 3, 5 and 8 that could cause interference.
> 
> 
> I knew something was up at WKYC, since I watch Today in the morning on my SDTV in the bedroom and there is no time/temperature bug. But I can see it on WKYC HD on my living room flatscreen. Every other channel downconverts HD for SD. All the bugs/weather warnings are present on the SD channel as well. Plus the picture is better. This really bugs me that they are still using a crappy picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a TV without a box in an extra bedroom. I've noticed all the channels around F/X have stripes on them. Every channel looks bad, but some like F/X look even worse. I can't even imagine how awful that looks.
> 
> 
> How many analog episodes do you still have? If I were you, I would delete those analog episodes and use the "wife's" TV to watch HD On Demand. The episodes are there in HD.



Nick, what system are you on? Legacy or non-legacy? Because I am in a legacy area and although my SD locals are technically "digital", they still don't look as good as most of the cable channels, and look like the crappy old analog signal just ''digitized''. I'll give an exception for WJW, which does look like the true digital feed...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16677202
> 
> 
> Nick, what system are you on? Legacy or non-legacy? Because I am in a legacy area and although my SD locals are technically "digital", they still don't look as good as most of the cable channels, and look like the crappy old analog signal just ''digitized''. I'll give an exception for WJW, which does look like the true digital feed...



I'm on legacy TWC. Maybe it is an area by area thing(I see you are near Kent, I'm in Akron), but I've noticed that the picture is better. Not fantastic, but better(which I'll have to take as a win with TWC!). WOIO SD digital used to look terrible. It was dark looking and blurry. Now, it looks much better than how it was. WVIZ used to look fuzzy even though it is 'digital', but now that one looks clear as well. Of course watching a SDTV show on WJW SD digital still doesn't look as good as watching the same SDTV show on WJW HD, but at least the SD channels are not godawful and hideous.


The SD channels are being fed from HDTV channels. What happens to them before they reach out TV sets is anyone's guess. I remember Hookbill thinking they convert (HD) digital to analog and back to digital. Sounds like some logic defying act of insanity TWC would do.










The one thing I do know is WKYC is the worst of the worst. It looks fuzzy and blurry, plus as I mentioned earlier it lacks the time/temperature bug on the Today show.


One thing I did notice is that the graphic appearances on "3" on TWC is tied to graphic appearance on analog nightlight channel 3. When 3 had the weather map on screen, the same map was on the nightlight channel. When the news was on with a bottom of screen banner about the tornado warnings, the map was removed and it was also missing from the nightlight channel. I'm hoping once they shut off the analog nightlight channel they'll finally migrate over to all digital broadcasting.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16671417
> 
> 
> ...I was on channel 3, standard definition. I see there is a banner at the bottom of the screen about a Tornado Warning for Tuscarawas. When I flipped over to WKYC HD, there's nothing. No banner at the bottom of the screen. WTF? It looks like WKYC is still sending their old analog OTA channel to TWC as a fiber feed. Why? How pointless is that to send the analog version to TWC and only have the Tornado Warning banner on the analog channel?



This was a glitch at WKYC and they corrected it in time for subsequent newscasts.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16678238
> 
> 
> I'm on legacy TWC. Maybe it is an area by area thing(I see you are near Kent, I'm in Akron), but I've noticed that the picture is better. Not fantastic, but better(which I'll have to take as a win with TWC!). WOIO SD digital used to look terrible. It was dark looking and blurry. Now, it looks much better than how it was. WVIZ used to look fuzzy even though it is 'digital', but now that one looks clear as well. Of course watching a SDTV show on WJW SD digital still doesn't look as good as watching the same SDTV show on WJW HD, but at least the SD channels are not godawful and hideous.
> 
> 
> The SD channels are being fed from HDTV channels. What happens to them before they reach out TV sets is anyone's guess. I remember Hookbill thinking they convert (HD) digital to analog and back to digital. Sounds like some logic defying act of insanity TWC would do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one thing I do know is WKYC is the worst of the worst. It looks fuzzy and blurry, plus as I mentioned earlier it lacks the time/temperature bug on the Today show.
> 
> 
> One thing I did notice is that the graphic appearances on "3" on TWC is tied to graphic appearance on analog nightlight channel 3. When 3 had the weather map on screen, the same map was on the nightlight channel. When the news was on with a bottom of screen banner about the tornado warnings, the map was removed and it was also missing from the nightlight channel. I'm hoping once they shut off the analog nightlight channel they'll finally migrate over to all digital broadcasting.



Do you have any analog sets at your house? Have you seen any improvement in PQ (local analog SD channels)? Assuming you even have any analog sets in your house...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16678756
> 
> 
> This was a glitch at WKYC and they corrected it in time for subsequent newscasts.



I noticed that at 7. They had a different looking banner on the HD newscast. But they still haven't fixed the fact they're still using the crappie analog feed on TWC.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dleising* /forum/post/16678897
> 
> 
> Do you have any analog sets at your house? Have you seen any improvement in PQ (local analog SD channels)? Assuming you even have any analog sets in your house...



I have a set connected without a box. All the channels still look the same: like crap. I haven't noticed any difference in the cable channels, but OTA wouldn't affect those since a channel like 55 cable wouldn't be affected by OTA 55. The locals do look better, since the source is digital. WKYC still looks bad like it used to though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16675576
> 
> 
> I see that others were/are having issues with the new HD channels and getting 'Channel Unavilable' messages, but is everyone still getting this problem every single day even after rebooting the box multiple times? I have 3 TWC boxes and all have this problem every day. It seems it's just with the new HD channels that were added over the last 4 weeks. Some will be unavilable one minute and then if I scroll to a few good HD channels and then scroll back, they will sometimes tune in properly and sometimes not. Then all of a sudden randomly they all come in fine again. Then they might be unavailable again 20 minutes later...not good at all. Is this standard fare at this point or should I have them come out to take a look? I called TWC and their CSR's told me that they haven't heard of this issue and the only way to fix it would be to have someone come out to investigate.
> 
> 
> With my luck, they'd come out and all the channels would be working at that moment. I'm sure that's what will happen!



I don't know if anybody responded to you or not but I have seen what you describe happen once since SDV started on 5/27.


It could very well be you're having a signal issue. I'd let them do a truck roll.


----------



## Vchat20

Going back to the copy protection garbage for a second I went through and extensively looked at the channels here and what 5C flags they had (while they are perfectly capable of doing it per-program, I doubt TWC would bother and the only other option is if the flags came from further upstream at the content providers).


All the HD Locals seem to come in copy freely: WKYC-403, WOIO-404, WEWS-405, WJW-408, WNEO-410, WFMJ-421, WYTV-422, WYFX-423, and WKBN-424


SD locals are odd though. 2-WNEO, 3-WKYC, 5-WEWS, 8-WJW, 10-WYFX, 11-WOIO are all copy freely. 4-WFMJ, 6-WKBN, and 7-WYTV are copy once.


Outside of the locals the only network channels set copy freely that I see here are 12-TV Guide, 18-Shop NBC, 75-Jewelry TV, 99-TV Guide (dupe of 12), 317-Speed, 357-CNNI, 373-myYTV, and 391-TBN . All the rest are copy once.








As I always say, TWCNEO has monkeys running the works. Nothing at all makes sense.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16681537
> 
> 
> Going back to the copy protection garbage for a second I went through and extensively looked at the channels here and what 5C flags they had (while they are perfectly capable of doing it per-program, I doubt TWC would bother and the only other option is if the flags came from further upstream at the content providers).
> 
> 
> All the HD Locals seem to come in copy freely: WKYC-403, WOIO-404, WEWS-405, WJW-408, WNEO-410, WFMJ-421, WYTV-422, WYFX-423, and WKBN-424
> 
> 
> SD locals are odd though. 2-WNEO, 3-WKYC, 5-WEWS, 8-WJW, 10-WYFX, 11-WOIO are all copy freely. 4-WFMJ, 6-WKBN, and 7-WYTV are copy once.
> 
> 
> Outside of the locals the only network channels set copy freely that I see here are 12-TV Guide, 18-Shop NBC, 75-Jewelry TV, 99-TV Guide (dupe of 12), 317-Speed, 357-CNNI, 373-myYTV, and 391-TBN . All the rest are copy once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I always say, TWCNEO has monkeys running the works. Nothing at all makes sense.



Well, leagally they are not suppose to copy protect locals so if they are doing that to you I'd contact them and let them know. I think that's an error.


It wouldn't be the first time. Remember the old Mojo? They had that set to copy NEVER and I called and had them fix that situation. Don't remember who I talked to, however, may have been my contact.


Of course here in ExAdelphia land where it is all analog all the time we don't have that issue.


----------



## hookbill

Had a problem with the tuner adapter. Called regular customer service and they didn't hesitate, sent me right through to the cable card hot line. Had I'd of known they were going to do that I would have called myself.










Long story short they sent a hit out and fixed it, but it is the second time I've had a problem one on each tuner adapter. I have the feeling it won't be the last time. He said after we fixed it that the way it came back it looked like it was bricked some how.







Said maybe they did an update but I said well why wouldn't the other tuner adapter have bricked? No explanation of course and quite honestly I didn't care.


Interesting that I've had problems twice now. From what I see on the two TiVo threads it's not a common problem with the tuner adapter, yet then again they all don't have TWNEO do they?


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16680177
> 
> 
> I don't know if anybody responded to you or not but I have seen what you describe happen once since SDV started on 5/27.
> 
> 
> It could very well be you're having a signal issue. I'd let them do a truck roll.




thanks for the reply Hook. I'll have them come out and poke around. I suspect though it's more than just an issue with my signal because I have a buddy who lives in Media who has the same exact issue as well as another family that lives on my street too. I fear this might turn into a long drawn out issue that'll involve replacing all my boxes for no reason and being frustrated with no love from TWC. I guess we'll see...calling them now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16683243
> 
> 
> thanks for the reply Hook. I'll have them come out and poke around. I suspect though it's more than just an issue with my signal because I have a buddy who lives in Media who has the same exact issue as well as another family that lives on my street too. I fear this might turn into a long drawn out issue that'll involve replacing all my boxes for no reason and being frustrated with no love from TWC. I guess we'll see...calling them now.



I think nickdawg has referred to this issue several times as well. It seems to be an area thing.


As you can see from my previous post I have my own issues with SDV and their tuner adapter, but when it works which is most of the time it works well.


----------



## hookbill

hmmmm I was sitting there watching Palladia when my little green light started blinking. Apparently this isn't the equipment causing this, it's just SDV FAIL! It came back on it's own which leads me to think there very well may be a problem with SDV.


Not to mention the fact that the concert I was watching was full of pixelation and sound drop offs. I think you ought to get that SDV FAIL thing going again nickdawg.


Edit: I just got a call from TW apparently the reason my box started blinking again was because my contact sent me out another hit. But that still doesn't explain all the pixelation and drop offs I got from Palladia today.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16684620
> 
> 
> hmmmm I was sitting there watching Palladia when my little green light started blinking. Apparently this isn't the equipment causing this, it's just SDV FAIL! It came back on it's own which leads me to think there very well may be a problem with SDV.
> 
> 
> Not to mention the fact that the concert I was watching was full of pixelation and sound drop offs. I think you ought to get that SDV FAIL thing going again nickdawg.
> 
> 
> Edit: I just got a call from TW apparently the reason my box started blinking again was because my contact sent me out another hit. But that still doesn't explain all the pixelation and drop offs I got from Palladia today.



Welcome to the Wonderful World Of SDV!!







I've had issues like that. Currently, some channels will have picture break up and no sound every hour or so. It seems to be a regular thing. I doubt it is your equipment.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16684620
> 
> 
> hmmmm I was sitting there watching Palladia when my little green light started blinking. Apparently this isn't the equipment causing this, it's just SDV FAIL! It came back on it's own which leads me to think there very well may be a problem with SDV.
> 
> 
> Not to mention the fact that the concert I was watching was full of pixelation and sound drop offs. I think you ought to get that SDV FAIL thing going again nickdawg.
> 
> 
> Edit: I just got a call from TW apparently the reason my box started blinking again was because my contact sent me out another hit. But that still doesn't explain all the pixelation and drop offs I got from Palladia today.



Yes woke up to the dreaded green blinking light on the TA this morning. Trying to reboot it myself. I'm dreading calling a TW tech. Want to avoid that if I can...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16689915
> 
> 
> Yes woke up to the dreaded green blinking light on the TA this morning. Trying to reboot it myself. I'm dreading calling a TW tech. Want to avoid that if I can...



No way should you have to call a tech. Just call customer service and tell them you have a TiVo and a tuner adapter and asked to be transfered to their cable card assistance department. They should be able to fix it for you.


One thing I've learned Ed is DO NOT play with that thing when you have the blinking light. You will just brick it. Watch the blinking light if it's doing 8 blinks and a pause then you need to call but if it's just plain blinking and not pausing wait it out, it should come back around.


I think it's doing that when TW's SDV goes down, which from what I read here seems to happen a great deal.


----------



## nickdawg

I think your problems are because SDV is "down". That seems to happen quite a bit, I hope it is because SDV is new and it won't a regular thing. The Tivo and the extra box connected to it must make things even worse.


SDV goes down more than a cheap hooker.


----------



## hookbill

I never met a cable company I've liked. TW is no exception.


Can a week go by - no make that a day, when they don't cause me a problem? This time its the internet. Went out for about 45 minutes today and right after I called in and found out I couldn't get anybody out until Tuesday the Internet came back up. So it works until around 8:00 tonight then out it goes again. I'm on hold on my cell for 20 minutes when I get a rep who says now they can't get anybody out until Wednesday! WTF we use the internet for business not just pleasure.


Just about 4 weeks ago they brought a new modem out. I got worried as soon as I saw Scientific Atlanta on it. Considering that we just got new cable dropped in and tv is working what else can it be?


In all the time I had Adelphia I never had a cable problem. Since having Roadrunner nothing but problems. And since I have VoiP I ha e just my cell phone. Fortunately Vonage will forward calls but what a pia.


Hopefully its the modem but I will still have them out on Wednesday one way or another.


----------



## shooter21198

i don't know if it is your modem, i went to walmart and bought another modem a few months ago and the internet is still bad ever since they switched me from adelphia to roardunner


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16691378
> 
> 
> i don't know if it is your modem, i went to walmart and bought another modem a few months ago and the internet is still bad ever since they switched me from adelphia to roardunner



You bought a modem? I didn't know you could even do that. I thought you had to use cable company equipment.


Interesting because that's what my wife wanted to do. I agree either the modem goes or it doesn't, but if you don't mind my asking how much did you pay for that? And what did you do just phone in the Mac number? Last question is why did you buy one when you can just pop over to TW and pick one up for free?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16691471
> 
> 
> You bought a modem? I didn't know you could even do that. I thought you had to use cable company equipment.
> 
> 
> Interesting because that's what my wife wanted to do. I agree either the modem goes or it doesn't, but if you don't mind my asking how much did you pay for that? And what did you do just phone in the Mac number? Last question is why did you buy one when you can just pop over to TW and pick one up for free?



Yeah, why the hell would anyone choose to BUY equipment?





















Especially like with TWC, where it is the service that is at fault, not the equipment.


Is you internet still down? I'm sorry to hear you have so many problems with them. Hookbill's experience with TWC's internet sounds exactly like how I thought it would be. And it costs so damn much. I've looked at their prices and all of them are almost twice what I pay. And it's even worse to pay $34 or $44 a month for unreliable service.


It's funny because TWC sent me a letter last week about "saving" money by buying more of their services and some kind of a two year price guarantee. Of course I laughed at that, like I, *I* want any more of their services(as you know how I feel about their cable service







) and like I'd want a contract for two years with them. This is the closest I have ever been to wanting to cancel them forever.


And Hook,I hate to do it but I have to. I'll bet you're reconsidering that high rating you gave the crappie internet phone service, since it has to run through that awful TWC internet connection. I couldn't imagine having the phone down all the time the internet is down. Now excuse me, I have to go listen to the dial tone!


----------



## hookbill

First my internet his been working since I made my post. Total down time is like 3 hours.


I still will the cable over DSL anyway. I had more problems with DSL then I ever had with cable.


And the cost when you combine them with premium channels is less then DSK

I've explained to you many times now that Voyage forwards calls to your cell. You don't miss a call. I place all outgoing calls with my cell anyway. I your lifetime you will see all landline phones disapeae


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16691810
> 
> 
> First my internet his been working since I made my post. Total down time is like 3 hours.
> 
> 
> I still will the cable over DSL anyway. I had more problems with DSL then I ever had with cable.



3 hours? I've only had a problem like that once with DSL. I just left everything turned off overnight and it came back. Another time it was down until I realized I had to enter the IP address on the modem to re-enter my email/password to reconnect.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16691935
> 
> 
> 3 hours? I've only had a problem like that once with DSL. I just left everything turned off overnight and it came back. Another time it was down until I realized I had to enter the IP address on the modem to re-enter my email/password to reconnect.



That would be a total of three hours, 2 hours in the evening 1 hour at during the day.


I think it's RR. Never had these problems with Adelphia. Wife and I agree if modem is going to go it goes, it doesn't come on and go off for no reason at all.


My experience with phone company DSL is that the closer you are to the company the faster the signal. Now when this thing runs I will blow DSL off the map as far as speed, no question. It's just I don't need it breaking down for unknown reasons.


Does anybody have the web address again so I can check my modem? I would appreciate it.


----------



## WilliamR

Okay guys, do we have another round of HD channels coming in July?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16692621
> 
> 
> Okay guys, do we have another round of HD channels coming in July?



Ohio Media Watch unofficially said more is coming but we don't know when. There is nothing listed on TW's page, that's where you have to look for the announcement. I checked yesterday.


I only have 1 or 2 left I would like to see, one being SPIKE.


----------



## tjs70

According to TWC we were supposed to receive the SDV HD Channels today. However as of Noon we still have nothing. This is very discouraging.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/16693318
> 
> 
> According to TWC we were supposed to receive the SDV HD Channels today. However as of Noon we still have nothing. This is very discouraging.



Who told you that you were going to have SDV today? You would need that of course to get the channels.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16692460
> 
> 
> Does anybody have the web address again so I can check my modem? I would appreciate it.



Many modems have a status page available at http://192.168.100.1


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16693689
> 
> 
> Many modems have a status page available at http://192.168.100.1



Thanks kid.


I'm showing receive power level of -2.9 dBmV and Transmit Power Level 50.3 dBmV. IIRC that transmit level is OK but I don't know about the receive level. Any ideas?


----------



## hookbill

Just a little info I thought I would pass on. This is the first opportunity I've had to watch a game on my LG 37" set on Game HD in the MLB Extra Innings package.


I kind of expected that there would be no Dolby 5.1, but I didn't expect the bad pq. Now I've glimpsed at a game here and there on the 19" Sammy on that channel and I've seen better, so maybe it's just the transmission today. Game is coming from NESN. Picture looks washed out, very poor quality for HD.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16694099
> 
> 
> Thanks kid.
> 
> 
> I'm showing receive power level of -2.9 dBmV and Transmit Power Level 50.3 dBmV. IIRC that transmit level is OK but I don't know about the receive level. Any ideas?



Hookbill, the receive power sounds just a tad low, and when Rx power is low, it causes the modem to boost it's Tx power a little bit to compensate for the loss, thus your Tx power is correspondingly just a tad high.


Industry specs call for DOCSIS modems to be able to work with a receive level as low as -10 to -15dbmv, but it's the goal of most companies to hit the modem with something closer to 0 dbmv to allow for some margin.


I don't think that a level of -2.9 is going to cause reboots though. You should be able to see the modem's boot log from the status page, and that might offer some clues. Also check the simple stuff - make sure it's not plugged into a power strip outlet where the blades are a little corroded or bent and intermittent.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16692644
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch unofficially said more is coming but we don't know when. There is nothing listed on TW's page, that's where you have to look for the announcement. I checked yesterday.
> 
> 
> I only have 1 or 2 left I would like to see, one being SPIKE.



I hope something is coming at the end of June. *Spike* is one, I'd also like to see *MSNBC* when it goes live on *June 29*. We have CNN







, Fixed Noise







and CNBC







; we better have MSNBC too!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16694360
> 
> 
> Hookbill, the receive power sounds just a tad low, and when Rx power is low, it causes the modem to boost it's Tx power a little bit to compensate for the loss, thus your Tx power is correspondingly just a tad high.
> 
> 
> Industry specs call for DOCSIS modems to be able to work with a receive level as low as -10 to -15dbmv, but it's the goal of most companies to hit the modem with something closer to 0 dbmv to allow for some margin.
> 
> 
> I don't think that a level of -2.9 is going to cause reboots though. You should be able to see the modem's boot log from the status page, and that might offer some clues. Also check the simple stuff - make sure it's not plugged into a power strip outlet where the blades are a little corroded or bent and intermittent.



I have it plugged into a UPS and blades are straight. Currently its gone to -3.1 dbmv however the T level is showing now at 49.0 and I can't recall if the tech told me it should be around 50 or 45. In any case there seems like there is a lot of breathing room before it maxes out even to -10dbmv. You think that change from 50.3 to 49 is anything significant?


I can't access the log, I can only get to this page. According to the tech with these modems you can't see the log page.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16694506
> 
> 
> I have it plugged into a UPS and blades are straight. Currently its gone to -3.1 dbmv however the T level is showing now at 49.0 and I can't recall if the tech told me it should be around 50 or 45. In any case there seems like there is a lot of breathing room before it maxes out even to -10dbmv. You think that change from 50.3 to 49 is anything significant?
> 
> 
> I can't access the log, I can only get to this page. According to the tech with these modems you can't see the log page.



+45dbmv is a good Tx level. Your Rx level can vary a little bit with no problems. It's common for levels to drift a db or so as the automatic gain controls in the trunk amplifiers do their thing. And if your receive level is anywhere from -5 to +5 you're in pretty good shape, and ther problem is likely elsewhere.


When the modem goes offline, do you lose the "cable" or "sync" light?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16694574
> 
> 
> +45dbmv is a good Tx level. Your Rx level can vary a little bit with no problems. It's common for levels to drift a db or so as the automatic gain controls in the trunk amplifiers do their thing. And if your receive level is anywhere from -5 to +5 you're in pretty good shape, and ther problem is likely elsewhere.
> 
> 
> When the modem goes offline, do you lose the "cable" or "sync" light?



Yes, exactly. Cable light starts blinking. TW says they see the modem as non operational.


Now my wife had a different issue earlier today where the cable light was solid but no pages were loading. She reset the modem and that fixed the problem. Other then that things have been good today.


I'm reading where some people who have bought their own modems are putting the knock on TW and Road Runner technology as being a problem specially in areas where and *existing cable company* had been there before. That sure sounds like me, I was fine with the old Adelphia system.


Also the version on this modem is 2.1 and I understand that 3.0 is available but may not work with all TW systems.


I'm over my head on this. I'll definitely keep the appointment with the tech this week.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16691471
> 
> 
> You bought a modem? I didn't know you could even do that. I thought you had to use cable company equipment.
> 
> 
> Interesting because that's what my wife wanted to do. I agree either the modem goes or it doesn't, but if you don't mind my asking how much did you pay for that? And what did you do just phone in the Mac number? Last question is why did you buy one when you can just pop over to TW and pick one up for free?



Hookbill: You can buy cable modems at BestBuy or other bigbox stores, or online. They are $80 or less. Yes, you call tech support and give them the MAC number. Unless TWC has changed their policy since I dropped them, they aren't free--there is a monthly rental charge for the cable modem.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16695478
> 
> 
> Hookbill: You can buy cable modems at BestBuy or other bigbox stores, or online. They are $80 or less. Yes, you call tech support and give them the MAC number. Unless TWC has changed their policy since I dropped them, they aren't free--there is a monthly rental charge for the cable modem.



We looked at our bill and we don't see the charge for the modem. Finding a modem that works with Road Runner from our research may not be as simple as walking into a store and buying one. I'm going to stay with the free one.


We have a lot of stuff with TW, it could explain why we don't get charged. It may be a hidden charge but I think by law they have to show you what you're being charged for.


It could also be my wife missed it but I kind of doubt it.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16694604
> 
> 
> Yes, exactly. Cable light starts blinking. TW says they see the modem as non operational.



A blinking cable light means that it can't sync up to the CMTS in the headend.



> Quote:
> Also the version on this modem is 2.1 and I understand that 3.0 is available but may not work with all TW systems.
> 
> 
> I'm over my head on this. I'll definitely keep the appointment with the tech this week.



If your modem is running DOCSIS 2.1 then you're current. Whenever DOCSIS 3.0 launches it will be backward compatible with 2.x so your modem will continue to work.


If the modem is losing sync when it has adequate signal, there could be RFI present that's interfering with the modem's carrier.


Anyway good luch with the tech visit. We now return you to the discussion of video topics, already in progress...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16692460
> 
> 
> My experience with phone company DSL is that the closer you are to the company the faster the signal. Now when this thing runs I will blow DSL off the map as far as speed, no question. It's just I don't need it breaking down for unknown reasons.



That's the nature of DSL - performance is highly affected by "line-feet", the term the telco uses for the length of the phone line between you and the DSLAM.


I have AT&T consumer-grade ADSL, Megapath commercial-grade SDSL, and consumer TW RoadRunner here at my house. They vary widely when comparing speed, reliability, and general quality. RoadRunner is my connection of choice - very fast (8+ Mb/sec sustained) and reliable. ADSL is more of a backup connection in the rare case RR goes down - at 13,000 line-feet (max is around 18,000) I get around 3Mb/sec, up to 6Mb/sec when the planets line up. However, when comparing sustained throughput between RR and ADSL, RR blows ADSL away - ADSL is very bursty and the speed varies all over the place when doing large transfers, while RR gives consistent download rates. The SDSL line is used for business purposes. Very reliable, but quite expensive. However, having a guaranteed upload speed is worth the money.


----------



## hookbill









Not my choice but wife wants to watch Big Brother, a show I'm not fond of but have tolerated in the past but this year I just have so much stuff on my DVR I don't want to record it. So to resolve the issue she's requested a DVR. In the email she wanted to know if there would be any problem downloading the shows to her laptop.































'nuff said. She blew the opportunity to get a TiVo on sale on Saturday. I'll pick it up for her, hope it actually works.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16695546
> 
> 
> We looked at our bill and we don't see the charge for the modem. Finding a modem that works with Road Runner from our research may not be as simple as walking into a store and buying one. I'm going to stay with the free one.
> 
> 
> We have a lot of stuff with TW, it could explain why we don't get charged. It may be a hidden charge but I think by law they have to show you what you're being charged for.
> 
> 
> It could also be my wife missed it but I kind of doubt it.



I don't know what's on your bill. I can tell you that getting a cable modem that works with their equipment is simple. I bought a Motorola SurfBoard cable modem perhaps five years ago for $70 and it worked fine (now I have DSL).


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16698289
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not my choice but wife wants to watch Big Brother, a show I'm not fond of but have tolerated in the past but this year I just have so much stuff on my DVR I don't want to record it. So to resolve the issue she's requested a DVR. In the email she wanted to know if there would be any problem downloading the shows to her laptop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'nuff said. She blew the opportunity to get a TiVo on sale on Saturday. I'll pick it up for her, hope it actually works.



Well at least you have this years wedding anniversary present taken care of!

Isn't this the SA8300 year? Or is this the "silver" year?

Well the SA8300 is silver, so you are covered!


----------



## gzath

My elderly mother just notified me that she can no longer get the locals on her TV. She has Time Warner (Brooklyn) with no settop box and has the cable hooking directly into the back of the TV. When asked how long this has been going on she informed me "about a week and a half" ... basically since the switch-over.


She can get channels above 13 but not the usual locals nor 25 WVIZ. I'm going to head over to check it out myself before I give TW a call. Her TV's not that old but perhaps it's not digital ready? A channel setting within the TV (tube JVC) setup?


Nothing crankier than an 85 y.o. woman who can't get Lawrence Welk reruns. Any thoughts appreciated.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/16698703
> 
> 
> My elderly mother just notified me that she can no longer get the locals on her TV. She has Time Warner (Brooklyn) with no settop box and has the cable hooking directly into the back of the TV. When asked how long this has been going on she informed me "about a week and a half" ... basically since the switch-over.
> 
> 
> She can get channels above 13 but not the usual locals nor 25 WVIZ. I'm going to head over to check it out myself before I give TW a call. Her TV's not that old but perhaps it's not digital ready? A channel setting within the TV (tube JVC) setup?
> 
> 
> Nothing crankier than an 85 y.o. woman who can't get Lawrence Welk reruns. Any thoughts appreciated.



The only thought I have is the digital switch out shouldn't have affected her at all.


Carry on soldier.







You're going to have to check this out for yourself. She should get her analog channels with no problem. If she doesn't follow part two of your plan, call TW.


I get pretty cranky when I can't my reruns from the old champaign music maker myself too.


----------



## shooter21198

So I emailed Brian Frederick the president at the local office in Erie about new HD Channels and looks like a grim summer.



> Quote:
> I don't see any July or August HD channel additions on the launch schedule. I believe the next round of HD additions will be happening in the Fall and I don't have any details on those additions.
> 
> 
> Sorry I can't be more specific.
> 
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Brian


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16699045
> 
> 
> So I emailed Brian Frederick the president at the local office in Erie about new HD Channels and looks like a grim summer.



What are you doing watching TV in the summer anyway? When you're not out at Presque Isle or Waldameer or Glenwood park, you should be cutting the grass or watering the garden! When it rains, well, that's what Milcreek Mall is for. You don't need no stinking TV in Erie!!


----------



## schandorsky

Just got a notice from Time Warner Cable that they are raising my rates $5 a month and we don't have the numerous HD channels in Amherst that most of you have been enjoying for the past few weeks. Isn't that a kick in the butt?


----------



## ed1202

TiVo is in talks with Time Warner. Hmmm...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a2d0e1TXcCuc


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16700571
> 
> 
> TiVo is in talks with Time Warner. Hmmm...
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a2d0e1TXcCuc



Interesting, I don't know much about the Comcast box at all. I just know it's been around for a while.


If something like that happens it will take a while for people to get TiVo boxes. I don't think home media option would be included, but who knows? Definitely would be a big improvement on what they currently have.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/16698703
> 
> 
> She can get channels above 13 but not the usual locals nor 25 WVIZ



This sounds like a set with separate VHF and UHF inputs, and the VHF cable popped off for some reason.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/16700571
> 
> 
> TiVo is in talks with Time Warner. Hmmm...
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a2d0e1TXcCuc



Ohhhh, great!










That just ruined my day.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16701505
> 
> 
> Interesting, I don't know much about the Comcast box at all. I just know it's been around for a while.
> 
> 
> If something like that happens it will take a while for people to get TiVo boxes. I don't think home media option would be included, but who knows? *Definitely would be a big improvement on what they currently have.*



No. It definitely would blow chunks compared to what they have now. SARA is probably the most stable OS TWC has(now that Passport is being phased out in NYC). SARA has been developed by professionals and in used for several years. Navigator is also OK. Now that it has been updated it is far more stable than the original version unleashed in 2007. The box and the software are finally agreeing with each other. This is obvious with new Samsung boxes, where Navigator is full of problems. Once the "bugs" are worked out, it is decent. Now they're gonna throw this Tivo software into the picture. I'll bet that takes another two years before they can make the Tivo software work with the TWC boxes. No thanks! Never thought I would say it, but I'll keep my Navigator box.


----------



## howie14




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *allthebetter* /forum/post/16659896
> 
> 
> I know this isnt exactly on topic...
> 
> 
> But I'm in cleveland...
> 
> 
> Any experiance with a reputable Hiatachi service center?
> 
> 
> Where who?
> 
> 
> 42hdt79 cycles on and of and on and off



I'm not in Cleveland, but I had that problem and it was a pinched ribbon cable shorting against the back on the unit. It took a lot of testing and anguish to find it.


----------



## hookbill

OK, I have just returned my second DVR to TW. The first one had a picture that looked like **** and the second one keeps giving me a "not authorized" message.


Spent 20 minutes on the phone with customer service and she couldn't fix it so now I have a tech scheduled to come out between 4 and 6 tomorrow.


I'm so fed up with TW now. I can't even get their own equipment working. nickdawg you don't know what a pos SARA is, how can you comment on it? I've lived with it for years, I'm sure it doesn't do well with SDV it can't even activate one of it's own boxes. I mean if my STB was working fine there, whats the friggen problem?


And btw the first box the gave me was a SA 8000 which was fine with me since it's going to wife but that thing was such a pos couldn't deliver a decent picture. The 4250 was fine. I don't get it.


SARA sucks, TiVo knows how to make cable work once they get rid of SARA and move on to TiVo they will finally have good software. That's years away but that's what its going to take. If it happens.


Oh and my appointment for tomorrow was cancelled as it appears they did have an internet outage in my area that caused the problem after all. Nobody bothered to tell me it was cancelled however, I would have been waiting at 10:00 am.


Time Warner really blows, but then again all cable companies do. And SARA still sux.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16706909
> 
> 
> OK, I have just returned my second DVR to TW. The first one had a picture that looked like **** and the second one keeps giving me a "not authorized" message.
> 
> 
> Spent 20 minutes on the phone with customer service and she couldn't fix it so now I have a tech scheduled to come out between 4 and 6 tomorrow.
> 
> 
> I'm so fed up with TW now. I can't even get their own equipment working. nickdawg you don't know what a pos SARA is, how can you comment on it? I've lived with it for years, I'm sure it doesn't do well with SDV it can't even activate one of it's own boxes. I mean if my STB was working fine there, whats the friggen problem?
> 
> 
> And btw the first box the gave me was a SA 8000 which was fine with me since it's going to wife but that thing was such a pos couldn't deliver a decent pictu50 was fine. I don't get it.
> 
> 
> SARA sucks, TiVo knows how to make cable work once they get rid of SARA and move on to TiVo they will finally have good software. That's years away but that's what its going to take. If it happens.
> 
> 
> Oh and my appointment for tomorrow was cancelled as it appears they did have an internet outage in my area that caused the problem after all. Nobody bothered to tell me it was cancelled however, I would have been waiting at 10:00 am.
> 
> 
> Time Warner really blows, but then again all cable companies do. And SARA still sux.



Hook: THAT'S *NOT* A SARA PROBLEM!!! How can I know that? Because I've gone through exactly what you did with Passport. Back in 2007 when I decided to upgrade





















to a DVR for HD, they gave me an old SA 8000 with Passport. One of them did not work at all. The second one they gave me died after an hour. I had tow wait a week for a service call because I was done with the garbage they have in the cabinet there.


Direct your anger where it belongs: at TWC. The very fact they gave you a SA 8000 in the year *2009* speaks to what a joke their operation is. How can they be recycling garbage equipment? And if that 8000 is running SARA, it probably works better than if it were running Navigator(the old boxes choke on Navigator). Even with Passport, I was never happy when I had the 8000. The boxes are old, so it is no surprise that the picture doesn't look as great. Should have tried recording something. I'll bet the analog to digital converter sucks too.


Welcome to Time Warner Cable. It's like a scratch and dent sale!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16707443
> 
> 
> Hook: THAT'S *NOT* A SARA PROBLEM!!! How can I know that? Because I've gone through exactly what you did with Passport. Back in 2007 when I decided to upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to a DVR for HD, they gave me an old SA 8000 with Passport. One of them did not work at all. The second one they gave me died after an hour. I had tow wait a week for a service call because I was done with the garbage they have in the cabinet there.
> 
> 
> Direct your anger where it belongs: at TWC. The very fact they gave you a SA 8000 in the year *2009* speaks to what a joke their operation is. How can they be recycling garbage equipment? And if that 8000 is running SARA, it probably works better than if it were running Navigator(the old boxes choke on Navigator). Even with Passport, I was never happy when I had the 8000. The boxes are old, so it is no surprise that the picture doesn't look as great. Should have tried recording something. I'll bet the analog to digital converter sucks too.
> 
> 
> Welcome to Time Warner Cable. It's like a scratch and dent sale!!



I'm not certain it isn't due to SARA's crummy software. You know I wouldn't give up and allow a service call without talking to you know who. She tried doing several things to get this thing going and IT IS NOT THE BOX!!! The problem is that they can't get an IP address out of the darn thing. That according to her is going to have to be addressed by the tech.


Now I don't have any idea if SARA is to blame or not and you're absolutely right about directing my anger at TW for offering up a SA 8000. When I came back and told them I wanted an SA 8300 first thing she said was that they didn't have any but when she looked, guess what, she found one.


Not only that but I couldn't get anything out of HDMI. I have it hooked up with component just to have the screen saying This Box is NOT AUTHORIZED, like I'm some kind of thief or something.


So now I have to waste more of my time with TW and this tech tomorrow. How much more time do I have to waste dealing with TW.


They got me by the short and curlies otherwise I'd dump this cable company in a heartbeat. I can't say they are worst then Adelphia, don't know if anybody could be but they certainly are up there with crummy equipment, lousy software, and bad customer service. Just think they are charging me today for use of this box even though I'm not able to use it.


Rant over.


----------



## shooter21198

It's official there is no new HD Channels for the month of July.


----------



## nickdawg

What I would do is ask for a NEW box in a crate: 8240HDC or 8300HDC. I know they have them, I got one from the Midway Plaza location. Only problem is the new boxes might be only for Navigator, as SARA will be going away in the near future. Plus the new boxes run Navigator better, so they might be pushing all of the old 8000 boxes on the SARA areas







.


Is the unauthorized box a HDC box? If so, it might be a cable card issue. I've seen a "Call Customer Care to Receive This Channel" message on local channels before and a reboot fixed it. If that's not working they might have to replace the cable card or the box. If they replace it be sure you get a new one, or at least a 8300HD. The 8000 boxes are trash and I wouldn't recommend them even for a TV in a dog's house.


But wow, I can't believe they are still giving out those old boxes(that date back to 2004!). Like I said, it must be because they don't want to deploy any new OCAP equipment with SARA. I've heard that once Navigator is complete in the last Passport market: NYC, they are supposed to start rolling out Navigator in SARA markets.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16707638
> 
> 
> What I would do is ask for a NEW box in a crate: 8240HDC or 8300HDC. I know they have them, I got one from the Midway Plaza location. Only problem is the new boxes might be only for Navigator, as SARA will be going away in the near future. Plus the new boxes run Navigator better, so they might be pushing all of the old 8000 boxes on the SARA areas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Is the unauthorized box a HDC box? If so, it might be a cable card issue. I've seen a "Call Customer Care to Receive This Channel" message on local channels before and a reboot fixed it. If that's not working they might have to replace the cable card or the box. If they replace it be sure you get a new one, or at least a 8300HD. The 8000 boxes are trash and I wouldn't recommend them even for a TV in a dog's house.
> 
> 
> But wow, I can't believe they are still giving out those old boxes(that date back to 2004!). Like I said, it must be because they don't want to deploy any new OCAP equipment with SARA. I've heard that once Navigator is complete in the last Passport market: NYC, they are supposed to start rolling out Navigator in SARA markets.



Nope, not an HDC and according to my source it's not the box. The box is reporting in telling her exactly what my services is.


I think they are dumping the 8000 on SARA people.


Hey I got a funny story to tell:


This guy is at the TW office today having a fit. Why? Because he can't receive his channels in 1080p. The guy was livid at TW saying he wasn't getting real HD because his set is a 1080p and he sees that the signals are either 1080i or 720p. Further he talked to someone at tech support so he knows there is a box that will give him 1080p.


The guy taking care of him was as patient as he could be but this clown just kept going on and on. I even told him hey buddy, they don't broadcast in 1080p. The guy at TW explained to him that 1080p is only available On Blu-ray DVD but no matter what he said he kept saying "You mean this guy at your tech support told me incorrectly that I needed my box upgraded?" ROFLOL


I believe some idiot did tell him that so I can understand why the guy was p.o.'d but come on. I think this guy working at TW showed far greater patience then I could have.


Maybe you had to be there but it was funny.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16707530
> 
> 
> I'm not certain it isn't due to SARA's crummy software. You know I wouldn't give up and allow a service call without talking to you know who. She tried doing several things to get this thing going and IT IS NOT THE BOX!!! The problem is that they can't get an IP address out of the darn thing. That according to her is going to have to be addressed by the tech.



When a box can't obtain an IP address, it's usually a "layer 1" problem (to use networking terminology). In other words it's likely an RF issue, where the box's DHCP request isn't received by the headend. There could be excessive attenuation in the return path somewhere.


A DHCP failure is agnostic in terms of operating systems - it wouldn't matter whether it was SARA, PASSPORT, MDN/ODN or something else - if you can't get an IP address you can't communicate. All cable companies with two-way systems operate in the same way. In that sense, cable modems are very similar to two-way STBs - they both need to establish an upstream and a downstream path to the headend.


Good luck with the tech visit. They'll have a nifty little gizmo that can simulate a two-way device and measure upstream (QPSK) and downstream (QAM) carriers and display the relative health of each path.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16708083
> 
> 
> When a box can't obtain an IP address, it's usually a "layer 1" problem (to use networking terminology). In other words it's likely an RF issue, where the box's DHCP request isn't received by the headend. There could be excessive attenuation in the return path somewhere.
> 
> 
> A DHCP failure is agnostic in terms of operating systems - it wouldn't matter whether it was SARA, PASSPORT, MDN/ODN or something else - if you can't get an IP address you can't communicate. All cable companies with two-way systems operate in the same way. In that sense, cable modems are very similar to two-way STBs - they both need to establish an upstream and a downstream path to the headend.
> 
> 
> Good luck with the tech visit. They'll have a nifty little gizmo that can simulate a two-way device and measure upstream (QPSK) and downstream (QAM) carriers and display the relative health of each path.



Do all techs jave this gizmo? You know more about the situation then he does. Got a gizmo and some spare time tomorrow?










I just don't understand why this problem occurred. If I have a STB or a DVR what's the difference?


----------



## Vchat20

Wow. Somehow I stopped receiving reply notifications for the past couple days. oO Got a lot of threads here to manually check up on. >

On a related note, looks like a few new entries on TWC's programming notices page:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by * http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/learn/programming/whatsontv/programmingnotices.html * /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On or after July 15, the following services will be added to Standard HD in the Elyria area: Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, AMC.
> 
> 
> On or after July 15 WNWO HD will be added to the standard HD tier in areas where this is carried as a broadcast channel.
> 
> 
> On or after July 15, the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier in the Elyria area: Versus, Speed, ESPNU.
> 
> 
> On or after July 15, the following services will be added to HD for customers subscribing to the MLB Extra Innings or NHL Center Ice packages in the Elyria area: Game HD
> 
> 
> On or after June 26, Smithsonian HD on Demand will be added.
> 
> 
> On or after July 15, WNEO Fusion and WNEO MHz Worldview will be added to Digital Access in some areas. In other areas WVIZ Ohio and WVIZ World will be added to Digital Access.
> 
> 
> On or after July 13, 2009 the following changes will take place: Jewelry TV will be dropped from expanded basic and our digital level of service and ONTV will be added to expanded basic and our digital level of service; Shopping Plus will be dropped from our digital level of service and Liquidation will be added to our digital level of service.
> 
> 
> On or after July 25, 2009, LoMejor On Demand will be added and SportsTime Ohio On Demand carriage will be resumed.



Or in other words: Elyria gets the June 15th channels a month late, WNWO will be added in HD to it's market on July 15th, Smithsonian HD on demand in 2 days from now, WNEO and WVIZ's OTA subchannels will be added to the digital tier on July 15th, some retarded shopping channels will be changed around which we don't give a rats ass about, STOHD ondemand will return and LoMejor on demand wil be added on July 25th.


So for the rest of us, nothing to write home about for the next month apparently unless they change something.


Here comes TWC's legalease rearing it's ugly head again. Their '5 HD channels a month' is probably getting satisfied by Elyria getting these channels they should have had earlier this month or the on demand channels probably. I'm hoping I am wrong on this, but meh...I was kinda hoping to see MSNBC in HD once they went live. :/


----------



## tjs70

The Lakeside Headend has finally implemented SDV and the City of Cleveland served from Lakeside has received the new HD Channels as of this morning. In addition it appears we have finally gotten rid of the Awful Adelphia On Demand portal. Things are looking up for TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/16710631
> 
> 
> The Lakeside Headend has finally implemented SDV and the City of Cleveland served from Lakeside has received the new HD Channels as of this morning. In addition it appears we have finally gotten rid of the Awful Adelphia On Demand portal. *Things are looking up for TWC*.



Let's give it a few days and we will see. I continue to have problems with the internet intermittently. Still glad you got your channels.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16710621
> 
> 
> Wow. Somehow I stopped receiving reply notifications for the past couple days. oO Got a lot of threads here to manually check up on. >
> 
> On a related note, looks like a few new entries on TWC's programming notices page:
> 
> 
> 
> Or in other words: Elyria gets the June 15th channels a month late, WNWO will be added in HD to it's market on July 15th, Smithsonian HD on demand in 2 days from now, WNEO and WVIZ's OTA subchannels will be added to the digital tier on July 15th, some retarded shopping channels will be changed around which we don't give a rats ass about, STOHD ondemand will return and LoMejor on demand wil be added on July 25th.
> 
> 
> So for the rest of us, nothing to write home about for the next month apparently unless they change something.
> 
> 
> Here comes TWC's legalease rearing it's ugly head again. Their '5 HD channels a month' is probably getting satisfied by Elyria getting these channels they should have had earlier this month or the on demand channels probably. I'm hoping I am wrong on this, but meh...I was kinda hoping to see MSNBC in HD once they went live. :/




Where's the other HD channels like: Bravo, CNBC, TLC and many others that the other areas got.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16710734
> 
> 
> Where's the other HD channels like: Bravo, CNBC, TLC and many others that the other areas got.



Even though they didn't specify it I'll bet you get those on 7/15 as well.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16710648
> 
> 
> Let's give it a few days and we will see. I continue to have problems with the internet intermittently. Still glad you got your channels.



Hook, I'll bet your internet and SA8300 problems are related. Last year I had a similar issue and it turned out to be an intermittent connection in a tap that was added up the street.


I know your pain with the SA8000! That was the first DVR i got when I lived near Buffalo. It responded soooo slowly! I thought I died and went to heaven when they replaced it with the SA8300... all SARA software, of course.


I've used Navigator on my daughter's 8300 un upstate NY and really don't see any significant difference between it and SARA, except for a couple of recording features. SARA here finally implemented the "first time on this channel" option for series recording. Also, if you stop playback and go away (watch live TV or turn the set off), when you go back to view the recording it gives the option of resuming where you left off. I don't remember having that before.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16710775
> 
> 
> Hook, I'll bet your internet and SA8300 problems are related. Last year I had a similar issue and it turned out to be an intermittent connection in a tap that was added up the street.
> 
> 
> I know your pain with the SA8000! That was the first DVR i got when I lived near Buffalo. It responded soooo slowly! I thought I died and went to heaven when they replaced it with the SA8300... all SARA software, of course.
> 
> 
> I've used Navigator on my daughter's 8300 un upstate NY and really don't see any significant difference between it and SARA, except for a couple of recording features. SARA here finally implemented the "first time on this channel" option for series recording. Also, if you stop playback and go away (watch live TV or turn the set off), when you go back to view the recording it gives the option of resuming where you left off. I don't remember having that before.



It's just strange that I had no problem with the STB and the moment I go to the SA 8300 I get a problem. I have had two techs come out for the internet issue and now one coming out for the DVR today, will mention intermittent internet problems as well. I've been told they are trained on both.


I really just want to get the darn thing running. It's my wife's headache after that. I mean I'll have to program it for her and all but if her shows don't record, don't blame me.


----------



## gzath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gzath* /forum/post/16698703
> 
> 
> My elderly mother just notified me that she can no longer get the locals on her TV. She has Time Warner (Brooklyn) with no settop box and has the cable hooking directly into the back of the TV. When asked how long this has been going on she informed me "about a week and a half" ... basically since the switch-over.
> 
> 
> She can get channels above 13 but not the usual locals nor 25 WVIZ. I'm going to head over to check it out myself before I give TW a call. Her TV's not that old but perhaps it's not digital ready? A channel setting within the TV (tube JVC) setup?
> 
> 
> Nothing crankier than an 85 y.o. woman who can't get Lawrence Welk reruns. Any thoughts appreciated.



Fixed










Don't know how it happened but the "lower channels" (12 and below) were locked out or deselected within the TV's setup. I re-enabled them and viola, "da bubble machine" will be playing once again for my Mom.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/16710631
> 
> 
> The Lakeside Headend has finally implemented SDV and the City of Cleveland served from Lakeside has received the new HD Channels as of this morning.



I don't know anything about the Lakeside tech people, but the customer service people at the desk have been consistently accommodating, helpful, friendly every time I have gone in about a billing issue or to exchange equipment. It's a huge improvement over the way they treat customers in in the Cleveland Heights (Severance Center) office, where they are irritable, nasty, and usually communicate a who-cares attitude.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16714208
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about the Lakeside tech people, but the customer service people at the desk have been consistently accommodating, helpful, friendly every time I have gone in about a billing issue or to exchange equipment. It's a huge improvement over the way they treat customers in in the Cleveland Heights (Severance Center) office, where they are irritable, nasty, and usually communicate a who-cares attitude.



The reason you have that happening is because at one time all of these offices had different managers at one time. One of the old Adelphia managers explained it to me. If you had an office that delivered good service and you went to another you may very well see exactly what you spoke about.


The idea now is to turn that around so that all TW offices act the same way. I can't say for certain if that has happened. When was the last time you were in the Cleveland Heights office?


----------



## hookbill

My 4-6 pm time slot for a service call has come and gone, and I'm going to make sure I get my 20.00 credit.


I had to call the manager of the Concord office. He's got a tech coming out and the guy really didn't have any idea what he's coming out for, I had to clue him in.


Nice job TW. Once again just to get the service I'm suppose to get I had to call a special number because your regular customer service didn't work.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16714419
> 
> 
> My 4-6 pm time slot for a service call has come and gone, and I'm going to make sure I get my 20.00 credit.
> 
> 
> I had to call the manager of the Concord office. He's got a tech coming out and the guy really didn't have any idea what he's coming out for, I had to clue him in.
> 
> 
> Nice job TW. Once again just to get the service I'm suppose to get I had to call a special number because your regular customer service didn't work.



Welcome to TWC!! We think like you think. We're the Power of You.
























Now you can see why I've always wanted to have Adeplhia as my cable company. I can't think of anyone with worse service than TWC. Except maybe Directv.


----------



## schandorsky

Email I received back today from Time Warner cable questioning when the Elyria/ Mentor area would receive HD channels others are already receiving in most areas in Northeast Ohio:


Thank you for your recent email note to Steve Fry. I have some

information about the timing of HD channel additions in your area. In

the Cleveland area, we have been launching new HD channels on a

community by community basis. The area in which you live is expected to

be able to launch the channels mid summer. The reason for the

'rolling' nature of the launches is engineering related but we expect

the areas formerly served by Comcast to have all the necessary

Engineering and Operations work completed so that these channels will be

available to customers with our SA - Scientific Atlanta -- HD settop

boxes. In reviewing your account, I believe you have that version of

equipment so you should be in good shape. Listed below are the

channels you can expect to see.



Bravo CNBC

TLC - Learning Channel Animal Planet

ABC Family ESPN News

MLB - Major League Baseball Golf

National Geographic Science

FX Fox News

CNN Lifetime Movie Network

Versus Speed

Travel AMC (American Movie Classic)

ESPNU Game HD - for customers

subscribing to either MLB Extra Innings season package or NHL Center Ice

season package


I will gladly keep you updated on the timing of the launches - I

understand 'mid-summer' is not as definitive as I would like, but given

there is Engineering and Operations work that needs to be completed and

tested, I am unable to give you an absolute date certain. Also, once

launched, the channel positions can be found in the 400 series -- our

channel line up website www.twcguide.com -- has the most current

information available on channel positions and the various programming

tiers these new HD channels are included on.


Please keep my contact information handy. If there is anything else you

need us to know about your service or if there are any questions I can

answer, please feel free to call or email me. Thank you again for being

a Time Warner Cable customer.



Liz Watson

Director of Marketing

Northeast Ohio Division

PH: 330.630.6423

FX: 330.633.7970

CL: 330.957.3175

[email protected]


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16714523
> 
> 
> Welcome to TWC!! We think like you think. We're the Power of You.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can see why I've always wanted to have Adeplhia as my cable company. I can't think of anyone with worse service than TWC. Except maybe Directv.



Well to be honest TW IMHO still hasn't shown itself to be worst then Adelphia. Out of all the cable companies I've dealt with they still get my "worst" rating.


Tech fixed the SA8300. Kind of. Its missing a foot so it wobbles and the HDMI doesn't work. Don't know if it can record a program. I hope it can. Tech discovered a splitter that may have been an issue. After he changed it numbers went from 53 to 43.7. Not the goal of 45 but I suppose that's better.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16714962
> 
> 
> Well to be honest TW IMHO still hasn't shown itself to be worst then Adelphia. Out of all the cable companies I've dealt with they still get my "worst" rating.
> 
> 
> Tech fixed the SA8300. Kind of. Its missing a foot so it wobbles and the HDMI doesn't work. Don't know if it can record a program. I hope it can. Tech discovered a splitter that may have been an issue. After he changed it numbers went from 53 to 43.7. Not the goal of 45 but I suppose that's better.



What numbers are you talking about?


----------



## tjs70

Just kidding. But when I got home after the quick check this morning I did have the deadly 8 Blinks on one of my 4 tuning adapters. My Series 3 was blinking 8 times on its tuning adapter. Surprisingly however when I called customer care they were quickly able to identify the problem and re-balance my account. Light stopped flashing and all was good. So you were right but they were quickly able to address it. Tivo HD's worked fine from the beginning. I think it has to do with the balancing of the two s-cards that the series 3 needs to use. Knock on wood picture and sound have been stable all evening.


I agree the Agents at Lakeside are awesome. They are nice and helpful.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16715085
> 
> 
> What numbers are you talking about?



Dbmv


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/16715189
> 
> 
> Just kidding. But when I got home after the quick check this morning I did have the deadly 8 Blinks on one of my 4 tuning adapters. My Series 3 was blinking 8 times on its tuning adapter. Surprisingly however when I called customer care they were quickly able to identify the problem and re-balance my account. Light stopped flashing and all was good. So you were right but they were quickly able to address it. Tivo HD's worked fine from the beginning. I think it has to do with the balancing of the two s-cards that the series 3 needs to use. Knock on wood picture and sound have been stable all evening.
> 
> 
> I agree the Agents at Lakeside are awesome. They are nice and helpful.



They did this without transferring you to cable card services? That's amazing!


----------



## tjs70

I agree. It is the first time I have called in and have not had to ask them to look at he notes on my account that have the Cablecard Hotline number stored in them. It is also the first time that when a frontline agent has touched my account that they have not taken other services out. Needless to say with 5 Cablecards and two HDC Boxes the regular agents usually just get scared







and transfer me. I was impressed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/16715189
> 
> 
> Just kidding. But when I got home after the quick check this morning I did have the deadly 8 Blinks on one of my *4 tuning adapters.*


*4 tuning adapters?*


----------



## hookbill

You're probably aware that the tech changed a splitter on my cable in the basement and this drastically changed the numbers on my cable modem. I'm wondering now whether this is going to far the other way.


Now I'm showing 40dbmv on transmit and 4.0dbmv on receive. Just to clarify yesterday I was showing 53 dbmv on transmit and -3.1dbmv. Notice the receive has gone from a negative to a positive.


I don't understand what this drastic change means, can you break it down for me?


And FWIW we still had to reset the modem last night, although I have a feeling if my wife would have been a little patient it would have come around on its own.


----------



## hookbill

It appears that whomever provides data for TW does now have a first run code so you can record first run only. SARA has always been able to do this but when I had this unit that feature was not available.


Search features are tremendously horrible still. And still only a 7 day window for looking up programs? Well, you get what you pay for. I'm just happy that Big Brother will not be a part of my television viewing displeasure for this year.










And I think since she won't ask it to record one or two programs we shouldn't have the missed/partial program problem which was so prevalent when I had used it in the past. No eSATA hook up should also help.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16714962
> 
> 
> *snip* After he changed it numbers went from 53 to 43.7. Not the goal of 45 but I suppose that's better.



Actually, that 43.7 is GREAT. With the transmit power, lower is better. 45 is not necessarily the best. So your 43.7 is a major improvement over the previous 53 and the tech actually did something right.











What was the receive like before though? Though +3 or +4 isn't bad and still well within spec, if it was previously less than that I'm curious as to why it'd end up like that.


I know about this same time a year back my transmit level was up around +55 on this SciAtl modem (though, FWIW, never had any issues whatsoever. I understand some brands work better than others with marginal signal, but SciAtl stuff as far as modems are not total crap unless you have lousy cabling) and like -5 on the receive. Between of some unknown change elsewhere in the neighborhood and possibly oter unseen changes, it came down to like +47 on the transmit and -1 to +1 on the receive. A tech recently replaced our drop here a few weeks ago and it further tweaked to a steady 0db on the receive and 45 steady on the transmit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16717086
> 
> 
> Actually, that 43.7 is GREAT. With the transmit power, lower is better. 45 is not necessarily the best. So your 43.7 is a major improvement over the previous 53 and the tech actually did something right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was the receive like before though? Though +3 or +4 isn't bad and still well within spec, if it was previously less than that I'm curious as to why it'd end up like that.
> 
> 
> I know about this same time a year back my transmit level was up around +55 on this SciAtl modem (though, FWIW, never had any issues whatsoever. I understand some brands work better than others with marginal signal, but SciAtl stuff as far as modems are not total crap unless you have lousy cabling) and like -5 on the receive. Between of some unknown change elsewhere in the neighborhood and possibly oter unseen changes, it came down to like +47 on the transmit and -1 to +1 on the receive. A tech recently replaced our drop here a few weeks ago and it further tweaked to a steady 0db on the receive and 45 steady on the transmit.



Receive was -3. Now it's +4.0. I guess he did the right thing then.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16717128
> 
> 
> Receive was -3. Now it's +4.0. I guess he did the right thing then.



Hook, he did very good! A 10 dB improvement is HUGE.... almost equivalent to removing 2 4-way splitters! I would not expect any more blinking lights on your modem.


I'm with you with the "search" (or really lack of) capability on the SA. It's worthless.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16717353
> 
> 
> Hook, he did very good! A 10 dB improvement is HUGE.... almost equivalent to removing 2 4-way splitters! I would not expect any more blinking lights on your modem.
> 
> 
> I'm with you with the "search" (or really lack of) capability on the SA. It's worthless.



Yes I know it looks good but I still have to reboot modem from time to time. Cable light is steady but I can see internet down because my Vongage light goes orange and I can't access web. Now this is a brand new, out of the box modem that was replaced a month ago. My wife is really p.o.'d I have thrown my hands up. It doesn't bug me to reboot the modem it's right by my desk and I'm tired of dealing with it.


Unlike the 3 legged not out of the box SA 8300 with a dead HDMI. Oh well, that's her problem too.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16717486
> 
> 
> Yes I know it looks good but I still have to reboot modem from time to time. Cable light is steady but I can see internet down because my Vongage light goes orange and I can't access web. Now this is a brand new, out of the box modem that was replaced a month ago. My wife is really p.o.'d I have thrown my hands up. It doesn't bug me to reboot the modem it's right by my desk and I'm tired of dealing with it.



I've seen a couple of internet outages this week as well, so it may have nothing to do with your recent service call. In general, T/W's internet service has been extremely reliable over the past 12-24 months, so I was surprised to run into this. Still, the problem was brief - less than an hour in the worst case.


Same symptom - cable modem appears to be connected, but no URLs can be resolved. Maybe a DNS problem, maybe a routing problem. I didn't dig deep enough to try to sort it out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16717562
> 
> 
> I've seen a couple of internet outages this week as well, so it may have nothing to do with your recent service call. In general, T/W's internet service has been extremely reliable over the past 12-24 months, so I was surprised to run into this. Still, the problem was brief - less than an hour in the worst case.
> 
> 
> Same symptom - cable modem appears to be connected, but no URLs can be resolved. Maybe a DNS problem, maybe a routing problem. I didn't dig deep enough to try to sort it out.



See here's what I don't get. Our problem started on Sunday with the cable light going out. I call in and the rep says it can't be an outage if my cable television is working so she sets up a Wednesday appointment.


Cable internet light came back up in two hours went out 5 hours later for about 15 minutes then stayed up. It went out again on Monday briefly and returned.


Now apparently on Monday they did indeed have an internet outage, because when I called to confirm my appointment the CSR told me I didn't have one because it was determined my problem was because of the outage. I said fine and hopped in my car to pick up DVR for wife. Problem with that so that's why I had the tech at least look at the internet.


It's hard to fix something that doesn't look broken. He made the change on the splitter and since then we still have had two occasions now which had the problems I described earlier, cable connection light on, internet addresses cannot be resolved. Resetting modem fixes. This is back to the same problem we had with the old modem.


I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the modem. What's going on, I don't have a clue. But it's bugging the crap out of my wife and now she's looking at ways to fix it.


I have a feeling she wants to buy a new modem but we will see. I'm just going to go with the flow.


----------



## Ben Music

I just noticed that my cable light is out on my SA modem, but everything seems to be working fine. Phone, Cable, and Internet all OK.


Ben Music


----------



## bassguitarman

Hookbill, I wonder if the new SA8300 could be interfering with the internet modem. Since the new cable boxes communicate back to home office.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16718592
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I wonder if the new SA8300 could be interfering with the internet modem. Since the new cable boxes communicate back to home office.



Nah, highly doubtful this problem started before that piece of...I mean that DVR even entered my house.

















The TiVo's use the internet as well to call home, get updated guide data and all that stuff. But they only call in once every day or two. Since the reset this morning all is well AFAIK.


Wife started having some difficulties with wireless network just when this problem returned, but I can't see how the wireless network would interfere with the internet. It's a pretty new router and all.


----------



## Cartman44310




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16718712
> 
> 
> Nah, highly doubtful this problem started before that piece of...I mean that DVR even entered my house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The TiVo's use the internet as well to call home, get updated guide data and all that stuff. But they only call in once every day or two. Since the reset this morning all is well AFAIK.
> 
> 
> Wife started having some difficulties with wireless network just when this problem returned, but I can't see how the wireless network would interfere with the internet. It's a pretty new router and all.





How close together are the cable modem and wireless router? If they are close together, the wireless router may be interfering with the cable modem. If I put my router closer than about 2-3 ft from the modem, I start to have problems (modem losing sync, speed decrease, etc)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16717047
> 
> 
> It appears that whomever provides data for TW does now have a first run code so you can record first run only. SARA has always been able to do this but when I had this unit that feature was not available.



Well, software does get upgraded over the years.











> Quote:
> Search features are tremendously horrible still. And still only a 7 day window for looking up programs? Well, you get what you pay for. I'm just happy that Big Brother will not be a part of my television viewing displeasure for this year.



Navigator and Passport also have a 7 day guide data. 7 days is standard, if something has more, that is unusual.


Big Brother?





















I really hope that's not in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16720540
> 
> 
> Well, software does get upgraded over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Navigator and Passport also have a 7 day guide data. 7 days is standard, if something has more, that is unusual.
> 
> 
> Big Brother?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really hope that's not in HD.



TiVo's guide goes to 7-8. Big Brother is not in HD, at least it wasn't last year and I won't have to look at it this year.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cartman44310* /forum/post/16720476
> 
> 
> How close together are the cable modem and wireless router? If they are close together, the wireless router may be interfering with the cable modem. If I put my router closer than about 2-3 ft from the modem, I start to have problems (modem losing sync, speed decrease, etc)



3 feet but that really shouldn't make a difference it's been in the same spot for about 4 years and we never had a problem with it.


My signal is fine right now. And to the best of my knowledge internet has held up all day. It's only when wife uses it that it fails.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16717128
> 
> 
> Receive was -3. Now it's +4.0. I guess he did the right thing then.



Yes he did. A higher receive level usually produces a lower transmit level as the modem has less trouble pushing through the attenuation to communicate with the headend, so it doesn't have to "shout" to be heard. Every time you boot a modem it goes though a ranging process where it adjusts it's transmit level based on a signal from the headend that tells it how well it's being heard.


----------



## tjs70

Hook, Are there any other wireless networks in your area that you can see when you search for networks? If so you may want to figure out what channel they are on since these networks can cause enough interference for you to lose your connection. Also make sure that if you have any 2.4 GHZ products like Wireless Cameras, Sonos, Bose wireless Audio etc. that they re also set to the furthest channel from the one you are using on your wireless network. If you are still having issues PM me and I can get you the name of someone at TWC who helped me correct some similar issues. However getting your signal correct is a good start.


----------



## hookbill

Guys...thanks for helping me understand how the modem works and what the signal strength numbers mean I appreciate it.


As of the last two days no more issues. Wife used her wireless laptop flawlessly and I haven't seen anymore outages. I think we're good at this point.


I guess since we don't have any new HD coming in we don't have much else to talk about. I did get a message on my TiVo about a new On Demand channel which is interesting since I can't get On Demand through TiVo. Still it added it to the channel line up. Maybe some other channels got added too, not sure.


----------



## clevemkt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/16723957
> 
> 
> Hook, Are there any other wireless networks in your area that you can see when you search for networks? If so you may want to figure out what channel they are on since these networks can cause enough interference for you to lose your connection. Also make sure that if you have any 2.4 GHZ products like Wireless Cameras, Sonos, Bose wireless Audio etc. that they re also set to the furthest channel from the one you are using on your wireless network. If you are still having issues PM me and I can get you the name of someone at TWC who helped me correct some similar issues. However getting your signal correct is a good start.



Also note that Ch 1-6 are in the amateur radio band and hams can be legally using considerable power there. Best to stay on the channels above that.


----------



## lefkas

Here in North Canton I cannot get WKYC, WOIO or FOX-8 OTA with my rabbit ears. Used to get FOX-8 before the digital transition. I can however now pick up KDKA out of Pittsburgh as well as channels 21-1, 21-2, 27-1 and 27-2 out of Youngstown which get me my CBS, NBC, FOX and CW shows in HD.


Shame on the Cleveland stations for not even getting to Stark County in digital. Used to get them all easily in analog.


Always suspected the "digital switch" was a conspiracy by the cable and satellite providers to pick up all remaining viewers.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/16725988
> 
> 
> Here in North Canton I cannot get WKYC, WOIO or FOX-8 OTA with my rabbit ears. Used to get FOX-8 before the digital transition. I can however now pick up KDKA out of Pittsburgh as well as channels 21-1, 21-2, 27-1 and 27-2 out of Youngstown which get me my CBS, NBC, FOX and CW shows in HD.
> 
> 
> Shame on the Cleveland stations for not even getting to Stark County in digital. Used to get them all easily in analog.
> 
> 
> Always suspected the "digital switch" was a conspiracy by the cable and satellite providers to pick up all remaining viewers.



The fact that you can't pick up WOIO and WJW is not surprising as they are VHS. I'm a little surprised you can't get WKYC.


So long as you can get the 4 networks though what does it matter if it's Cleveland or Youngstown. Heck I think I'd prefer Youngstown.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16726927
> 
> 
> Thanks to that damn DTV transition, I can no longer get WFMJ 21 with my rabbit ears. This sucks tonight because NBC is rebroadcasting the show about Farrah Fawcett and WKYC is showing the phucking Idiots Indians game. The same g-damn game that is on STO is on WKYC. For the first time I am realizing how miserable life is without having the option of that fuzzy NBC station from Y-Town.



Ha ha, I'm still running through May's season finales. And I haven't even looked at the whole season of Castle yet.


Remember what a big deal I made about SDV and STO? I haven't even watched a whole Tribe game they stink that bad.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16727006



Why am I not surprised that confuses you.










I thought you were saying you had nothing to watch. I was saying I have too much to watch.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16727198
> 
> 
> Why am I not surprised that confuses you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you were saying you had nothing to watch. I was saying I have too much to watch.



Ohhh, I see. I was wondering what Castle had to do with Farrah and WKYC. Just another chance to flaunt that Tivo and its big hard drive!










So I won't get to see Farrah. I'll probably watch MSNBC or CNN coverage of Michael Jackson. Or FOX if Shepard Smith is on. Plus I can continue watching the MJ videos on MTV. That's right! MTV was showing music videos last night and today! Wow, who would've thought it was a good idea for Music Television to show videos!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16727275
> 
> 
> Ohhh, I see. I was wondering what Castle had to do with Farrah and WKYC. Just another chance to flaunt that Tivo and its big hard drive!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I won't get to see Farrah. I'll probably watch MSNBC or CNN coverage of Michael Jackson. Or FOX if Shepard Smith is on. Plus I can continue watching the MJ videos on MTV. That's right! MTV was showing music videos last night and today! Wow, who would've thought it was a good idea for Music Television to show videos!



Geeze nickdawg I'm not flaunting about TiVo. IIRC SA 8300 has 20 hours HD recording. That's the same as my TiVo HD. What's to flaunt about?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16727365
> 
> 
> Geeze nickdawg I'm not flaunting about TiVo. IIRC SA 8300 has 20 hours HD recording. That's the same as my TiVo HD. What's to flaunt about?



Then how do you have the entire Castle season recorded? It was 13 episodes(I think) so that would mean 13 hours on the DVR. You'd be almost out of room. But you also have Rescue Me and other shows recorded.


I thought Tivo had a bigger hard drive.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16727495
> 
> 
> Then how do you have the entire Castle season recorded? It was 13 episodes(I think) so that would mean 13 hours on the DVR. You'd be almost out of room. But you also have Rescue Me and other shows recorded.
> 
> 
> I thought Tivo had a bigger hard drive.



The S3 does have a bigger hard drive but only 50 gb more. I have eSATAs on both TiVos for an additional 500 gb each. This is something the SA 8300 is perfectly capable of. No advantage there really.


The way I do it isn't because of extra disk space. That's helpful of course but for the amount of shows I have I'd still run out of disk space. Its the ability to move the shows to my Macs 1tb hard drive that makes it possible.


I use a software called Toast that has the capability to automatically move shows from TiVo to the Mac. All episodes of Castle were set to auto transfer after being recorded. And that's where all 10 episodes are at. Short season for Castle I guess.


Eventually using the Toast and Tivo I will move them back to Tivos hard drive probably one episode at a time.


----------



## 2PuttChuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16721209
> 
> 
> Yes he did. A higher receive level usually produces a lower transmit level as the modem has less trouble pushing through the attenuation to communicate with the headend, so it doesn't have to "shout" to be heard. Every time you boot a modem it goes though a ranging process where it adjusts it's transmit level based on a signal from the headend that tells it how well it's being heard.



So, if my receive power level is -8.5, and my transmit power level is 34.5 and everything seems to be working OK, should I be concerned and have TWC come out to check things out?


----------



## Inundated

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure WFMJ and WKBN are still operating exactly at the level they were before June 12th.


I think one or both will move the antenna off the side and to the top, but A) I'm not sure about that and B) if they will, it hasn't happened yet.


Meanwhile, TiVo/Tribune Media Services decided I don't get to watch MLB Network anymore on SD 326. How does this stuff happen?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16727765
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure WFMJ and WKBN are still operating exactly at the level they were before June 12th.
> 
> 
> I think one or both will move the antenna off the side and to the top, but A) I'm not sure about that and B) if they will, it hasn't happened yet.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, TiVo/Tribune Media Services decided I don't get to watch MLB Network anymore on SD 326. How does this stuff happen?



Incompetent. How did Tribune Media decide that Palladia was replaced by Biography HD?


I will call it in tomorrow. I wonder if they changed anything else?


Come to think about it I called in on MLB net when it first came on 326. I hate this crap.


----------



## nickdawg

UNBELIEVABLE!!! I was just about to say I do not have a digital tuner. Just for s--ts and giggles I decided to try scanning the tuner on my HDTV. I connected a cheapy pair of rabbit ears from an old TV(the kind that have the little post on the bottom that mounts on the back of the TV). After the scan I can now get WKYC 3.1 3.2, WEWS 5.1, WDLI 17.1 17.2 17.3 17.4, WVPX 23.1 23.2 23.3, WVIZ 25.1 25.2 25.3, WEAO 49.1 49.2 49.3, WBNX 55.1, WQHS 61.1 all with the rabbit ears. Picture is choppy on some channels(as I only have 50-60 signal strength). But I was able to pull 75% on WEWS. I'll have to try the line from my old roof antenna to see how that works out.


Maybe I'll go buy an indoor HDTV antenna!! I'm very excited now!!
























I had already written off my TV tuner as not working at all.


I can't get 8 or 19, which doesn't surprise me. I also can't get 43.1 or the "new" channel 47.1 which did surprise me.


Does anyone think it would be possible to get WFMJ or WKBN with an indoor antenna in Akron? I know WKBN is supposed to be strong, as I've read comments at OMW from those who cannot get WOIO but can get WKBN.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/16727670
> 
> 
> So, if my receive power level is -8.5, and my transmit power level is 34.5 and everything seems to be working OK, should I be concerned and have TWC come out to check things out?



-8.5 on the receive side sounds a tad low. It's still well within industry specs but you don't have much fade margin there.


----------



## nickdawg

I adjusted my antenna and rescanned. I now get WJW, WUAB and WRLM?. Still no WOIO, but I don't think I'll ever get that-makes me very happy!!


Some thoughts: I'm impressed with the picture quality. The OTA picture really does look better than the cable. I'd have to watch a program with lots of fast action to be 100% sure but the picture looks much more clear.


Can there be any more fncking religion channels? Seriously, channel 17 has 5 subchannels, plus theres one on WVPX AND that WRLM channel is another religious channel. I think that sends a very bad message about our TV market.










WJW needs to move back to RF 31, NOW!!!!! That VHF stuff is s--t. I have to stand on my head with the antenna in my mouth to get a watchable signal on that channel. I'd really like to know why WJW committed DTV suicide by going back to VHF. We've always made fun of WOIO for being on VHF, why would anyone choose that downgrade?


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lefkas* /forum/post/16725988
> 
> 
> Shame on the Cleveland stations for not even getting to Stark County in digital. Used to get them all easily in analog.



Using a preamp?

I'm in North Canton and get all the UHF Cleveland stations most of the time...

lower level apartment with an amplified antenna inside shooting thru a northern brick wall... weak signals and lots of multipath at this location, most of the analogs were unwatchable but the digitals work pretty good... -Ed


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16726883
> 
> 
> The fact that you can't pick up WOIO and WJW is not surprising as they are VHS.



Wait a minute, you mean WOIO and WJW are now broadcasting on analog videotape?














Now I'm not surprised I can't get them!











> Quote:
> I'm a little surprised you can't get WKYC.



I can get WKYC in Akron at ~ 70% signal strength with cheapo rabbit ears and a rusty rooftop antenna.


WKYC and WEWS are both very solid at about 60-70 signal strength. Both PBS work great, WBNX is a little more trouble.


The thing that really pisses me off is WVPX is macroblocking like hell at 60-70. On 23.2 I had macroblocking and freezing at 78%. I'm in Akron and the damn tower for WVPX is in Akron!!

























> Quote:
> So long as you can get the 4 networks though what does it matter if it's Cleveland or Youngstown. Heck I think I'd prefer Youngstown.



I wish I could get Youngstown channels. The NBC station would have been great tonight plus I don't think I will ever see WJW or WOIO OTA ever---WKBN takes care of both right there.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16726883
> 
> 
> So long as you can get the 4 networks though what does it matter if it's Cleveland or Youngstown. Heck I think I'd prefer Youngstown.



There are some key differences depending on the networks that could give a preference to one DMA over another. For me it is the following:


NBC for example; During primetime shows on WFMJ when they needed to run any overlay it would automatically cut back to windowboxed SD crap. This used to be a terribly regular occurence every single week earlier on in the year. WKYC has the equipment and budget to keep it on the HD realm.


WKYC does the occasional cleveland indians game in HD OTA.


WJW seems to be a hit or miss thing so many people even farther west towards Akron and western cleveland would prefer getting 27DT just to have fox even if their DMA is technically cleveland.


It's all really a personal preference as it has always been even before the DTV transition mess. I still primarily record all my local programming on the cleveland stations. Especially WKYC for the first note above. Even if they run like weather alerts and crawls, it's a small price to pay not to have the programming sent back to ugly 480i land.


----------



## nickdawg

You're forgetting one thing Chat: Youngstown doesn't have the same weather people Cleveland does. That alone would make me prefer WYTV over WEWS. There's even times I wish we still had WAKC just to avoid WEWS and their stupid weather man and stupid local programming.


WFMJ wins over WKYC any day. WFMJ respects NBC programming and doesn't dump it in favor of the Indians or other crap.


WKBN wins over WOIO just for the fact it is not WOIO.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16727864
> 
> 
> UNBELIEVABLE!!! I was just about to say I do not have a digital tuner. Just for s--ts and giggles I decided to try scanning the tuner on my HDTV. I connected a cheapy pair of rabbit ears from an old TV(the kind that have the little post on the bottom that mounts on the back of the TV). After the scan I can now get WKYC 3.1 3.2, WEWS 5.1, WDLI 17.1 17.2 17.3 17.4, WVPX 23.1 23.2 23.3, WVIZ 25.1 25.2 25.3, WEAO 49.1 49.2 49.3, WBNX 55.1, WQHS 61.1 all with the rabbit ears. Picture is choppy on some channels(as I only have 50-60 signal strength). But I was able to pull 75% on WEWS. I'll have to try the line from my old roof antenna to see how that works out.
> 
> 
> Maybe I'll go buy an indoor HDTV antenna!! I'm very excited now!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had already written off my TV tuner as not working at all.
> 
> 
> I can't get 8 or 19, which doesn't surprise me. I also can't get 43.1 or the "new" channel 47.1 which did surprise me.
> 
> 
> Does anyone think it would be possible to get WFMJ or WKBN with an indoor antenna in Akron? I know WKBN is supposed to be strong, as I've read comments at OMW from those who cannot get WOIO but can get WKBN.



If your old rooftop TV antenna is still in good electrical condition, it will easily outperform any indoor antenna. And don't fall for the "HDTV antenna" crapola. Where you are in Akron will determine whether or not you'll be able to receive WKBN and WFMJ. Regardless, it is improbable that you'll receive the Youngstown stations with an indoor antenna unless you're on high ground with an unobstructed eastward view.


----------



## Vchat20

I have to agree with salemtubes. With the right conditions I can pull in WKYC here in Warren with just this old 20+ year old outdoor UHF/VHF antenna good enough that I have a stable picture some times. And that is with my dandy splicing job and old RG59 with small nicks in the outer shield at a few spots. I even get enough of a blip from WJW for it to at least pop up in the channel list during scans. I even get 52 analog out of Toledo enough to be watchable with moderate static. And anyone who lives here knows what a beating these things will be taking over the years from all the weather. Even the UHF/VHF combiner at the tip of the tower is really rusted with the screw connections wide open to the elements. I consider this quite a feat really considering what I have to deal with.


WKBN/WYFX you should be able to pull in easy with enough signal for a stable lock. They are the major powerhouse here (ever since my antenna upgrade, I'm a solid 100% 24/7 even through changing weather conditions.). WFMJ so-so. Try your luck. 33 of course is dead to everyone except those living in downtown Y-town until they finally get around to bumping up their Tx power.


I'm surprised though you don't pick up 45 currently there. Or did you just omit that in light of WEAO? Unless I am mistaken you should be sitting right on top of it there. Or at the very least have a better shot at it than, say, I would?


----------



## ErieMarty

anything new on any new HD Channels being added at the end of June or sometime in July...


or are we done for a while ???


trying to think of whats left out there to be added...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16729229
> 
> 
> anything new on any new HD Channels being added at the end of June or sometime in July...
> 
> 
> or are we done for a while ???
> 
> 
> trying to think of whats left out there to be added...



Well the actual promise we got was at least 5 HD channels every month through 2009. While I am not holding my breath with concerns to the recent news (nothing being added through Jul 25th), there are a lot of wording loopholes TWC has here. Number one: By 'every month' they mean a literal month where they have satisfied the additions for June and now have July to worry about and could add new channels anytime up to the 31st. Secondly between of carriage negotiations and contracts, there may not be anything posted till the very last minute.


Overall: We can't really tell. Though given the past and with the selection of channels we have currently, I'm not getting too worried. About the only channels off the top of my head I could really care for now are MSNBC and the Weather Channel both in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16729236
> 
> 
> Well the actual promise we got was at least 5 HD channels every month through 2009. While I am not holding my breath with concerns to the recent news (nothing being added through Jul 25th), there are a lot of wording loopholes TWC has here. Number one: By 'every month' they mean a literal month where they have satisfied the additions for June and now have July to worry about and could add new channels anytime up to the 31st. Secondly between of carriage negotiations and contracts, there may not be anything posted till the very last minute.
> 
> 
> Overall: We can't really tell. Though given the past and with the selection of channels we have currently, I'm not getting too worried. About the only channels off the top of my head I could really care for now are MSNBC and the Weather Channel both in HD.



I'd like to know where this supposed promise was made? Who made it, Mr. Jassoe? I don't think he meant 5 channels a month forever.


I think TW will add on some additional channels as soon as they raise our rates first for justifications.


How are we doing compared to Columbus, does anybody know?


----------



## shooter21198

TWC MidOhio aka Columbus has 42 HD Channels minus Premiums and locals

in case you were wondering only HBO HD Starz HD Cinemax HD and Showtime HD so they are basically like TWCNEO



> Quote:
> 714 CNN HD
> 
> 715 Fox News Channel HD
> 
> 717 CNBC HD
> 
> 722 ESPN News HD
> 
> 723 ESPNU HD
> 
> 725 MLB Network HD
> 
> 740 Travel Channel HD
> 
> 743 BIO HD
> 
> 744 Bravo HD
> 
> 747 FX HD
> 
> 748 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
> 
> 749 LMN HD
> 
> 750 HD Theater
> 
> 751 TNT HD
> 
> 752 Sports Time Ohio HD
> 
> 753 FSN Ohio HD
> 
> 754 Versus HD
> 
> 755 FSN Ohio HD Alternate
> 
> 756 SPEED HD
> 
> 757 Big Ten Network HD
> 
> 758 The Golf Channel HD
> 
> 759 TBS in HD
> 
> 760 USA HD
> 
> 761 National Geographic HD
> 
> 762 Discovery Channel HD
> 
> 763 Science Channel HD
> 
> 764 Food Network HD
> 
> 765 TLC HD
> 
> 766 A&E HD
> 
> 767 History HD
> 
> 768 HGTV HD
> 
> 769 Animal Planet HD
> 
> 770 Disney HD
> 
> 771 Disney XD HD
> 
> 772 ABC Family HD
> 
> 773 Sci Fi HD
> 
> 774 Palladia HD
> 
> 775 MGM HD
> 
> 780 Universal HD
> 
> 781 Smithsonian Channel HD
> 
> 782 MavTV HD
> 
> 785 ESPN-HD
> 
> 786 ESPN2 HD


----------



## hookbill

Doesn't look a whole heck of a lot different then what we currently get. I saw an extra Disney channel and Biography. That appears to be the only difference really unless I missed something.


I think that's about all we're going to get people. Geeze, no Spike HD? MSNBC, are they even broadcasting in HD?


----------



## ErieMarty

I didn't think they were going HD until End of June or July...can't remember where I heard it from ..


maybe someone else has more information on this channel


----------



## nickdawg

MSNBC will go HD on Monday June 29. Considering we have FAUX, CNN and CNBC, it only makes sense that we should get MSNBC as well.


Thing is now that a new channel launched, we have to deal with the usual red tape of TWC "making a deal" with the provider. Word is only Dish Network will carry MSNBC HD from the start on 6/29. MSNBC is supposed to be a known done deal with TWC, but I haven't heard anything about it launching anywhere soon. TWC has several channels on their current done deal list that are available in limited areas.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/16729206
> 
> 
> If your old rooftop TV antenna is still in good electrical condition, it will easily outperform any indoor antenna. And don't fall for the "HDTV antenna" crapola. Where you are in Akron will determine whether or not you'll be able to receive WKBN and WFMJ. Regardless, it is improbable that you'll receive the Youngstown stations with an indoor antenna unless you're on high ground with an unobstructed eastward view.



I'm in the northern part of town. I used to be able to get 21 with fuzzy picture and 27, although not as well as 21. 33 never came in, ever.


My rooftop antenna is a piece of crap, many of the metal pieces have fallen off over the years and it is very rusty. I've had better luck with the rabbit ears than the rooftop. That's about all I know about it as I'm not daring enough to climb up and look at it.







I'm not very optimistic about the Youngstown stations since my TV is on the west side of the house, nowhere near the windows on the east side.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16729223
> 
> 
> I have to agree with salemtubes. With the right conditions I can pull in WKYC here in Warren with just this old 20+ year old outdoor UHF/VHF antenna good enough that I have a stable picture some times. And that is with my dandy splicing job and old RG59 with small nicks in the outer shield at a few spots. I even get enough of a blip from WJW for it to at least pop up in the channel list during scans.



I couldn't get WJW when I scanned with the antenna, but with the rabbit ears in one position I had the channel 8-1 in the channel list, although it never worked. WOIO has been missing always.


Sad thing is my inside wiring is in better shape. There are two boxes with terminals in the basement for the VHF and UHF wires. There I have a 75/300 ohm balun with a single coax cable coming out of it to the TV. I might try a different cable line since I'm currently using an old TWC line.



> Quote:
> I even get 52 analog out of Toledo enough to be watchable with moderate static. And anyone who lives here knows what a beating these things will be taking over the years from all the weather. Even the UHF/VHF combiner at the tip of the tower is really rusted with the screw connections wide open to the elements. I consider this quite a feat really considering what I have to deal with.
> 
> 
> WKBN/WYFX you should be able to pull in easy with enough signal for a stable lock. They are the major powerhouse here (ever since my antenna upgrade, I'm a solid 100% 24/7 even through changing weather conditions.). WFMJ so-so. Try your luck. 33 of course is dead to everyone except those living in downtown Y-town until they finally get around to bumping up their Tx power.



Your antenna must be in better shape. Mine has had pieces falling off in the occasional summer wind storms. I've found metal rods laying by the side of the house a few times.



> Quote:
> I'm surprised though you don't pick up 45 currently there. Or did you just omit that in light of WEAO? Unless I am mistaken you should be sitting right on top of it there. Or at the very least have a better shot at it than, say, I would?



I didn't get WNEO. Tonight I did another rescan and WJW and WOIO showed up in my list, but I lost WVIZ. WJW had a watchable picture momentarily, until I slightly moved the antenna while looking at WOIO, which never worked. WKYC and WEWS have been my strongest channels. WVPX is my worst, which is surprising considering the tower is so close. Even with a signal of 57 - 61(out of 100) I don;t have a watchable picture. It even jumped to 61 and it was still a mess.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16732122
> 
> 
> MSNBC will go HD on Monday June 29. Considering we have FAUX, CNN and CNBC, it only makes sense that we should get MSNBC as well.
> 
> 
> Thing is now that a new channel launched, we have to deal with the usual red tape of TWC "making a deal" with the provider. Word is only Dish Network will carry MSNBC HD from the start on 6/29. MSNBC is supposed to be a known done deal with TWC, but I haven't heard anything about it launching anywhere soon. TWC has several channels on their current done deal list that are available in limited areas.



BBC America was promoting its HD feed that is scheduled to start July 20. I wonder how long it will take for us to get it???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16738367
> 
> 
> BBC America was promoting its HD feed that is scheduled to start July 20. I wonder how long it will take for us to get it???



Time Warner in Austin, Texas has had SDV for at least 2 years now. I took a look at their guide to see how different they were then us. According to their guide they have less HD then we do now.


Do I believe what I see? No. I think their guide needs updating, just like our guide needs updating. Just like our guide needs updating. They still have HDnet on our guide on the internet.


I just think based on what I see Columbus has that it isn't going to be that soon that we see additional HD channels.


And come on TW, why don't you update the internet guide? Wouldn't that be a key source to people who are looking maybe for either a cable or satellite provider?


----------



## Vchat20

Btw, just thought I'd let you know: You can now keep running tabs on the programming notices page over here: http://www.changedetection.com/log/t...tices_log.html 


When TWC decides to update it, that page should start running a changelog of updates starting today and can also email you when it sees any changes.


For those anal types amongst us.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/16729206
> 
> 
> If your old rooftop TV antenna is still in good electrical condition, it will easily outperform any indoor antenna. And don't fall for the "HDTV antenna" crapola. Where you are in Akron will determine whether or not you'll be able to receive WKBN and WFMJ. Regardless, it is improbable that you'll receive the Youngstown stations with an indoor antenna unless you're on high ground with an unobstructed eastward view.



I just stopped by the "original forum" to see how the cable guys are doing and lo and behold the first post I see is about OTA!


The trick to getting Youngstown stations from Akron, or anywhere else in N.E. Ohio is the height of your antenna. While I'm in a different area (Parma) the technique should be the same if you are on high ground. I'm 1100' above sea level and get WKBN/WYFX 24/7 with an indoor Silver Sensor (no amplifier!). That's 57 miles from the transmitter. I don't have the same luck with WFMJ, since their coverage area falls short of this area, and WYTV, well let's just say it's a very good day when that one pops in (a very rare occurrence). I also have an outdoor UHF corner reflector that was aimed at Youngstown, but that did not get me WFMJ on a regular basis (Ironically I did get the analog WFMJ on a regular basis, snowy but watchable, it was the best of the analog Youngstown stations for me).

Here is WKBN/WYFX's coverage area. If you are inside the circle, and on high ground you should get the signal reliably. If you are too low an investment in a 40' town may make the difference. The key is to be INSIDE the circle! (Checkout that coverage area - besides Youngstown it covers a large part of the Cleveland, Steubenville, Pittsburgh and Erie markets!)


If you can't get WOIO and/or WJW this signal is worth the effort to get! Even if you do get WOIO & WJW if you are a football fan you will snag a few more NFL games on any given Sunday. And now that WYFX is in HD on 27-2 nearly every game will be in HD!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16748443
> 
> 
> I just stopped by the "original forum" to see how the cable guys are doing and lo and behold the first post I see is about OTA!



It's funny because since you guys all left we've quieted down significantly. This is because just about everybody now has SDV and the HD channels are all distributed. Oh we gripe and moan about service but no way have we been as active as we use to be. Matter of fact we are so desperate for something to talk about my internet service became a hot topic for a bit.


Drop by anytime.







Thanks for the link and the info.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16748443
> 
> 
> I just stopped by the "original forum" to see how the cable guys are doing and lo and behold the first post I see is about OTA!
> 
> 
> The trick to getting Youngstown stations from Akron, or anywhere else in N.E. Ohio is the height of your antenna. While I'm in a different area (Parma) the technique should be the same if you are on high ground. I'm 1100' above sea level and get WKBN/WYFX 24/7 with an indoor Silver Sensor (no amplifier!). That's 57 miles from the transmitter. I don't have the same luck with WFMJ, since their coverage area falls short of this area, and WYTV, well let's just say it's a very good day when that one pops in (a very rare occurrence). I also have an outdoor UHF corner reflector that was aimed at Youngstown, but that did not get me WFMJ on a regular basis (Ironically I did get the analog WFMJ on a regular basis, snowy but watchable, it was the best of the analog Youngstown stations for me).
> 
> Here is WKBN/WYFX's coverage area. If you are inside the circle, and on high ground you should get the signal reliably. If you are too low an investment in a 40' town may make the difference. The key is to be INSIDE the circle! (Checkout that coverage area - besides Youngstown it covers a large part of the Cleveland, Steubenville, Pittsburgh and Erie markets!)
> 
> 
> If you can't get WOIO and/or WJW this signal is worth the effort to get! Even if you do get WOIO & WJW if you are a football fan you will snag a few more NFL games on any given Sunday. And now that WYFX is in HD on 27-2 nearly every game will be in HD!













I'm more than inside that circle, so why can't I get WKBN? I thought Akron would be on the edge of the coverage area but it looks like goes into Medina county. I know I never had luck getting WKBN analog, but I could get WFMJ analog the best, although it had lots of fuzz on it.


Outdoor antennas are out of the question for me, as I'd only spend that much to have a big one installed if I was absolutely dumping TWC(which is not happening, yet







). Right now I have rabbit ears that consist of two sticks connected to the TV with a 300 ohm line coming out of them and an adapter on the end. If I were to buy a modern set of rabbit ears, specifically one that is VHF/UHF and has the the ring or loop on it, would that give me a better chance of getting WKBN?


----------



## Michael P 2341

If you have to go with an indoor antenna you'll want to try the the Silver Sensor. Place it as high as you can get it facing out an East-facing window (no screens, just glass). Unless you are at the bottom of a valley or have other obstructions you should have a good chance at getting WKBN-DT.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16748704
> 
> 
> If you have to go with an indoor antenna you'll want to try the the Silver Sensor. Place it as high as you can get it facing out an East-facing window (no screens, just glass). Unless you are at the bottom of a valley or have other obstructions you should have a good chance at getting WKBN-DT.



Correct me if I'm wrong. Ut that silver sensor appears to be UHF only. Don't you need rabbit ears for VHF?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16750085
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong. Ut that silver sensor appears to be UHF only. Don't you need rabbit ears for VHF?



If you can get WKBN then you don't need VHF. Only CBS and FOX are VHF, and WKBN is CBS and FOX.


To hell with WJW and WOIO. They're both on the impossible to receive VHF side.


And I know why I can't get WJW. I've been reading the various articles at OMW and other places about VHF. The articles talk about interference and signals being reflected-causing the ghosting on analog channels. Whenever I had my current rabbit ears connected to an analog set, I never had a good picture on VHF analog 8. It had horizontal lines and ghosting. Now VHF digital 8 is unwatchable as well.


I'll never understand what was going through their minds when they made that decision. To be on a powerful UHF channel and throw that away to be lost in VHF neverland. So good. I hope WKBN gets more viewers on CBS and FOX.


----------



## hookbill

Got a message on my TiVo HD. 326 MLBnet is back on the guide for you Inundated. And you're welcome.


----------



## salemtubes

Nickdawg, the service contour map shows the theoretical limits a station's coverage area. Even though you may be within the those limits, whether or not you receive a station is also dependent on your elevation and any obstructions between you and the transmitter. Michael's advice about the Silver Sensor is on the money; however, you still may not receive WKBN due to other factors.


Michael, while contour maps are a good indicator of one's chances of receiving a particular station, they are not absolute. I am outside of the contour lines of WOIO, WUAB, WOUC and several other stations, yet I receive them 24/7.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16750335
> 
> 
> Got a message on my TiVo HD. 326 MLBnet is back on the guide for you Inundated. And you're welcome.



Yes, you read that right hookdog. After a few weeks of taping Rescue Me and saying "I'll watch it tomorrow", I had to dispose of a few weeks worth of Rescue Me episodes as the 8300 was approaching the full mark and I want to record a few movies in the coming days. So yes, right about now I am very jealous of those Tivos like hook's that have more than a puny 20 hour hard drive.


Wish I could archive a whole season of Castle.










Oh well, I guess Rescue Me will be on in reruns...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16750458
> 
> 
> Yes, you read that right hookdog. After a few weeks of taping Rescue Me and saying "I'll watch it tomorrow", I had to dispose of a few weeks worth of Rescue Me episodes as the 8300 was approaching the full mark and I want to record a few movies in the coming days. So yes, right about now I am very jealous of those Tivos like hook's that have more than a puny 20 hour hard drive.
> 
> 
> DWish I could archive a whole season of Castle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well, I guess Rescue Me will be on in reruns...



I know you don't like to spend money on equipment and I've told you this just the other day. TiVo HD only has a 200gb hard driv and the S3 has a 250gb hard drive.


You can purchase an additional eSata drive for your SA 8300. Matter of fact I have a 300gb eSATA somewhere around here designed specifically for the SA8300. If I can find it I will GIVE it to you. That will bump you an additional 30 hours of HD storage. All I ask is you come get it.


All this is subject to me finding it but I think I got an idea where it might be. If you're interested let me know.


----------



## nickdawg

Thanks Hook, but I can't. One of the reasons for hating Navigator is the lack of eSATA drive support. With the latest version of Navigator, the eSATA drives have not been working properly. Since there is nothing that says TWC MUST provide that feature, their software support is flaky. People have had more problems with the external drives connected, so until the software is fixed, it's something I'd rather not get into.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16750995
> 
> 
> Thanks Hook, but I can't. One of the reasons for hating Navigator is the lack of eSATA drive support. With the latest version of Navigator, the eSATA drives have not been working properly. Since there is nothing that says TWC MUST provide that feature, their software support is flaky. People have had more problems with the external drives connected, so until the software is fixed, it's something I'd rather not get into.



I suspected that the eSATA was a major cause of my partial recordings issue. Matter of fact I "proved" it when I disconnected it in the last weeks of Summer 3 years ago. No partials. But I had too much to record so I rolled the dice again and hooked it back up. This was just before the S3 came out and by that time as you know I was fed up.


OK nickdawg, that will save me the trouble of trying to find the darn thing.


----------



## k2rj

Hook,

I'd be willing to give it a try and at least see if the latest SA8300 software may have fixed the eSATA problem or not!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16752317
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> I'd be willing to give it a try and at least see if the latest SA8300 software may have fixed the eSATA problem or not!



I just spent about an hour looking for the darn thing. I can't find it.


Either I sold it on ebay (wife may have), it may be in a box somewhere in the basement or I may have even trashed it. Just don't know I haven't seen it in 2 and a half years. Sorry.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16748493
> 
> 
> It's funny because since you guys all left we've quieted down significantly. This is because just about everybody now has SDV and the HD channels are all distributed. Oh we gripe and moan about service but no way have we been as active as we use to be. Matter of fact we are so desperate for something to talk about my internet service became a hot topic for a bit.
> 
> 
> Drop by anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link and the info.



Everbody except for the Elyria/Mentor area (old comcast). We just keep waiting and waiting and waiting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16753051
> 
> 
> Everbody except for the Elyria/Mentor area (old comcast). We just keep waiting and waiting and waiting.



Well, she did say "mid summer." I would take that to say no later then mid August, giving some lead way.


Yeah, you guys sure are getting the shaft. No much you can do except change provider, and that may not be an option.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/16750449
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, the service contour map shows the theoretical limits a station's coverage area. Even though you may be within the those limits, whether or not you receive a station is also dependent on your elevation and any obstructions between you and the transmitter. Michael's advice about the Silver Sensor is on the money; however, you still may not receive WKBN due to other factors.



If I remember where nickdawg lives, he's just up from the Merriman Valley in Akron. That's a tricky area for reception. I live further east from him, not that far away, and I have tried roughly 10 indoor antennas that don't reliably get WKBN-DT. I have some terrain obstructions and problems. It shows up on my signal meter, but not enough to lock.


Meanwhile, I drove in my car just a few miles further east, in the parking lot of a fast food restaurant, and got WKBN-DT with a mag mount rod antenna attached to my portable digital TV, with no difficulty










I suspect if I put up a decent outdoor UHF antenna, WKBN would come in regularly. I really can't, logistics wise, here. Maybe if I bought a 2-bay or 4-bay and stuck it in my back second-floor window...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16750335
> 
> 
> Got a message on my TiVo HD. 326 MLBnet is back on the guide for you Inundated. And you're welcome.



Thank you







Though I did put in my own report from TiVo's website, so we probably both nudged 'em...


If you look at the TiVo data for Fox Sports Ohio on TWC, the name of the channel even says "Cleveland feed" - which is the terminology I used when I told 'em about the fact that they had listings for the Cincinnati feed (including Reds games!) until it was fixed.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16750458
> 
> 
> Yes, you read that right hookdog. After a few weeks of taping Rescue Me and saying "I'll watch it tomorrow", I had to dispose of a few weeks worth of Rescue Me episodes as the 8300 was approaching the full mark and I want to record a few movies in the coming days. So yes, right about now I am very jealous of those Tivos like hook's that have more than a puny 20 hour hard drive.
> 
> 
> Wish I could archive a whole season of Castle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well, I guess Rescue Me will be on in reruns...



I just got a Seagate 1.5 TB EHD for my 622. I'm filling it up with HD movies off HBO and Starz during my 3 months free preview. Plus I already have virtually every episode of a 6 year long series my wife likes. (in SD, it was from the 90's and has been in reruns on several different networks recently) I still have 1.1 TB free as of today.


Dish initially stated the maximum HD size supported was only 750 GB. As long as it's a single platter drive it will work. After formatting I had about 1.33 TB of space (it was measured in gigs as 1333 GB). A 1 TB drive after formatting gets you 930 GB. What's the maximum size drive supported by the various DVR's you guys have?


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *salemtubes* /forum/post/16750449
> 
> 
> Nickdawg, the service contour map shows the theoretical limits a station's coverage area. Even though you may be within the those limits, whether or not you receive a station is also dependent on your elevation and any obstructions between you and the transmitter. Michael's advice about the Silver Sensor is on the money; however, you still may not receive WKBN due to other factors.
> 
> 
> Michael, while contour maps are a good indicator of one's chances of receiving a particular station, they are not absolute. I am outside of the contour lines of WOIO, WUAB, WOUC and several other stations, yet I receive them 24/7.



Do you get these outside of the contour line stations 24/7 or only when the atmosphere cooperates? Are you on high ground and/or do you have a 40' tower for your antenna?


All I was saying is if you can get your antenna high enough up, if you are inside the contour line you have a better chance of getting the station. Anything outside the lines is gravy.


----------



## salemtubes

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* 
Do you get these outside of the contour line stations 24/7 or only when the atmosphere cooperates? Are you on high ground and/or do you have a 40' tower for your antenna?


All I was saying is if you can get your antenna high enough up, if you are inside the contour line you have a better chance of getting the station. Anything outside the lines is gravy.
Yes, as I stated, I receive the stations that I mentioned outside of the contour lines 24/7. Yes, I'm on high ground at 1250' above sea level. My antenna tower is 55' tall. I use an old style Channel Master 4228 for UHF stations. It is superior to the new version of the 4228 unless one chooses to modify the new style 4228. I also use a Winegard YA-1713 for high band VHF stations. Both antennas are fed to a Channel Master 7777 preamplifier. I receive stations from Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, Cambridge, Steubenville and Wheeling. I've attached a Word document of the stations I receive 24/7 along with a view of my home from bing.com. The antennas are fuzzy but visible near the center top of the picture.

 

Digital TV channels.doc 26k . file


----------



## nickdawg

More about my antenna. I put my same old crappy rabbit ears in the front window of my house, connected to the TV with a longer coax cable. After a rescan, I lost 5.1 but I now get 19.1 and 8.1 solid. 19.1 only has about 25-30 signal but the picture is mostly breakup free. 8.1 has about 40 signal and the picture there is solid too. WKYC which was usually around 60-69 is all the way up to 75-80. I can't believe I lost 5.1.


Maybe if the weather is nice tomorrow I'll break out the really long coax cable and try the rabbit ears in the back(east facing) window.


I rescanned later tonight. 5.1 is back and I also have 50% on 8.1. WOIO is still hanging in there at 23%, but it acts up if you walk to heavy in the room.


Hey Hookbill: try putting your antenna next to the window and scanning for channels. Maybe the bird's TV will get WJW back. Of course it probably helps that I have a northwest facing window. Antennaweb shows the signals from Cleveland coming diagonal at my house but the west facing window seems to work well.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16752809
> 
> 
> I just spent about an hour looking for the darn thing. I can't find it.
> 
> 
> Either I sold it on ebay (wife may have), it may be in a box somewhere in the basement or I may have even trashed it. Just don't know I haven't seen it in 2 and a half years. Sorry.



No problem! Been there, done that toooo many times! Seems I spend half my life looking for things I can't find.... Thanks for looking!


----------



## subavision212

great. new HD channels finally and get my bill today and sure enough, it went up 5 bucks. thanks TW, what a swell bunch of people.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/16762954
> 
> 
> great. new HD channels finally and get my bill today and sure enough, it went up 5 bucks. thanks TW, what a swell bunch of people.



Now you just listen here mister. Did you really believe that the bill wouldn't go up after Crime Warner added all those HD channels? You really didn't think they were serious when they said free HD now did you?


I'll tell you what you're going to do. You're going to pay your 5 bucks and be thankful they didn't make it ten. People like you are nothing but in grates.


What's that? You say you will leave? Oh ok here's 20 bucks which they will get back from you in four months. And just for complaining no HD for another four months. They need time to raise rates again.


Also someone has to pay for my TiVo's tuning adapter.


----------



## nickdawg

^^^ (sigh)










Screw this TWC talk, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz back to OTA talk!!


Today with a little more adjustment I actually got a spike in the signal on WOIO, up to 45%!! And before that it was nonexistent(probably the weather). Also WJW has been rock solid today at about 40%. "WOIO viewing position" also brought me 75% signal on WEWS and an end to the macroblocking on WVPX.


I gotta say, this OTA thing is more and more tempting by the day!!! And it works better than SDV ever has!!


----------



## hookbill

You'll never do it. No USA and WWE. No FX. No CNN or MSNBC. No Faux News. If Tribe ever does well no STO. OK quit laughing.










You'll pay your extra 5 bucks just like the rest of us sheep.


Oh btw Tyler only has a window that faces southeast.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16763087
> 
> 
> You'll never do it. No USA and WWE. No FX. No CNN or MSNBC. No Faux News. If Tribe ever does well no STO. OK quit laughing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You'll pay your extra 5 bucks just like the rest of us sheep.



I think you're right. As much as I hate the picture quality, there are too many good shows on cable for me to miss completely. I like tho think I could do it, but I NEED Psych, In Plain Sight, Monk, MSNBC, CNN. And it makes the TWC bill hurt even more because I am getting 100% better PQ for 100% less money than I pay TWC. Cable digital SD or HD looks like ass. And SDV channels are even worse. Over compressed packed in QAM channels should be illegal.



> Quote:
> Oh btw Tyler only has a window that faces southeast.



Try it anyway. Especially VHF signals have a harder time penetrating walls so if it is by a window, you may get better results. If I can get watchable picture on 3kW WOIO in Akron, you should be able to get something further north.


I watching Malcolm in the Middle on WJW right now with a solid breakup free picture with a 34% signal. With the antenna repositioned, I can get close to 50(which I had during the 6pm news). This is with standard "stick" rabbit ears. If you have one of those triangular antennas or a rabbit ears with UHF ring antenna, that should work even better. But I'm still holding out hope that WJW will move back to UHF 31, permanently.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16763033
> 
> 
> Now you just listen here mister. Did you really believe that the bill wouldn't go up after Crime Warner added all those HD channels? You really didn't think they were serious when they said free HD now did you?
> 
> 
> I'll tell you what you're going to do. You're going to pay your 5 bucks and be thankful they didn't make it ten. People like you are nothing but in grates.
> 
> 
> What's that? You say you will leave? Oh ok here's 20 bucks which they will get back from you in four months. And just for complaining no HD for another four months. They need time to raise rates again.
> 
> 
> Also someone has to pay for my TiVo's tuning adapter.



I guess I should be happy they only raised my franchise fee 63 cents, ha! Maybe it's time to check into how much it will cost to cut down all these tree around my house so I can get satellite. I suppose I could drop my internet to the cheaper price and save $5 bucks. oh so many options.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/16763406
> 
> 
> I guess I should be happy they only raised my franchise fee 63 cents, ha! Maybe it's time to check into how much it will cost to cut down all these tree around my house so I can get satellite. I suppose I could drop my internet to the cheaper price and save $5 bucks. oh so many options.



Try DSL. If AT&T is in your area, they're good and you can get it for $19.95. TWC is overpriced and the service they provide is not worth it. And now that I've seen over the air HDTV, I'm starting to think their TV service isn't worth the money either.


Satellite is no better than cable. Once the insanely cheap introductory rates end, they are as expensive or more than TWC. Plus customer service is worse. More like nonexistent. And of course the signal dropouts in rain/snow/clouds.


----------



## BudgetPlan1

Since last night TWC broadcast has been dropping (TV screen goes black for a second every now and again); when I rewind DVR to place where TV screen goes black, the playback freezes/pixillates for a second in the same exact spot. 2nd, non-digital box/TV seems OK. Still doing it this morning.


I know it's not TV as a BR disc plays w/ no drops. Whatcha think, TWC transmission problem or is DVR (SA8300) fritzing out? Cables, etc. all checked and OK.


I'm thinking the DVR is the culprit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/16763797
> 
> 
> Since last night TWC broadcast has been dropping (TV screen goes black for a second every now and again); when I rewind DVR to place where TV screen goes black, the playback freezes/pixillates for a second in the same exact spot. 2nd, non-digital box/TV seems OK. Still doing it this morning.
> 
> 
> I know it's not TV as a BR disc plays w/ no drops. Whatcha think, TWC transmission problem or is DVR (SA8300) fritzing out? Cables, etc. all checked and OK.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking the DVR is the culprit.



I don't think it's the DVR. What channel where you watching? If it was on a SDV channel I'd say SDV is the culprit. If you were on a non SDV HD channel it could have been a broadcast issue.


SA8300 is a pos but in live mode it does a decent job of delivering the picture. The fact that you rewound and found pixelation in the area if anything shows the DVR was doing it's job.


Drop outs like you describe happen from time to time, however if it happens consistently all the time then you may want to consider trading in the DVR. But I wouldn't let one incident cause you to be alarmed.


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16763838
> 
> 
> I don't think it's the DVR. What channel where you watching? If it was on a SDV channel I'd say SDV is the culprit. If you were on a non SDV HD channel it could have been a broadcast issue.
> 
> 
> SA8300 is a pos but in live mode it does a decent job of delivering the picture. The fact that you rewound and found pixelation in the area if anything shows the DVR was doing it's job.
> 
> 
> Drop outs like you describe happen from time to time, however if it happens consistently all the time then you may want to consider trading in the DVR. But I wouldn't let one incident cause you to be alarmed.



Well, this is just peachy. TWC rep had me reset the boxes (both basic and HD DVR) and after reboot:


- No time info displays on box, only channel

- Channels very limited, ie. No HD channels, just misc channels like History, PBS, 200's & 300's mostly. No locals.

- No guide information

- Hitting info button brings up "Advanced Services are still not available" message

- Service rep cannot send signal to either box

- "We can have a service rep out by Tuesday night"


Wonder if it's my external line? They can't seem to get info to the boxes.


Arghhhhhh....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/16764799
> 
> 
> Well, this is just peachy. TWC rep had me reset the boxes (both basic and HD DVR) and after reboot:
> 
> 
> - No time info displays on box, only channel
> 
> - Channels very limited, ie. No HD channels, just misc channels like History, PBS, 200's & 300's mostly. No locals.
> 
> - No guide information
> 
> - Hitting info button brings up "Advanced Services are still not available" message
> 
> - Service rep cannot send signal to either box
> 
> - "We can have a service rep out by Tuesday night"
> 
> 
> Wonder if it's my external line? They can't seem to get info to the boxes.
> 
> 
> Arghhhhhh....



I told you not to press the panic button. Now looked what happened.










Do you have a regular SA 8300 or HDC?


----------



## nickdawg

Your box is dead. I had a similar problem with my 8300HD where it would not load the software and it would come on with only the channels under 100 and no DVR or guide. Sometimes the digital services would return soon other times it would sit there with the boot screen on forever and not load for hours or days.


That box is done, you'll have to replace it.


----------



## Vchat20

*sigh*


It's just temporary. Try rebooting the box again til it comes back up and don't bother with the idiot techs and for the love of god, do NOT touch any buttons on the box or the remote until the Mystro boot sequence finishes.


If it still continues to do this after a couple reboot attempts, then I would begin by looking at the incoming line as a culprit before assuming the box is dead.


----------



## hookbill

Guys I'm showing no guide data for 6/9 on the SA 8300. The date is there but data empty. Anyone have guide data for 6/9 on any SA box?


Last time this happened I had to go to the Macedonia office and force them to turn on their tv to prove there was no data. I can probably fix it with a phone call on Monday if necessary but I have to know if it is just my box.


----------



## nickdawg

I have guise data on both of my boxes.


Have you had any mail from TWC other than a bill lately? According to SatchMan on the Navigator page, one of the signs that Navigator is coming soon is a lack of guide data far out in the week.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/16763158
> 
> 
> And if it does not do that, you could have Navigator sooner rather than later. Actually, about 2-3 weeks before we got Navigator, I do remember the box advancing only one or two days with repeated regularity. If the box is not generating Passport/SARA data after a certain day, following a reboot, you could be hit with Navigator at any time. Even if seven days of program advancing comes back after the reboot, you could still be hit with Navigator soon. Watch for things like:
> 
> 
> Being able to only browse only one or two days ahead repeatedly.
> 
> 
> Unexpected pixiation in the picture, especially on digital stations.
> 
> 
> Your box rebooting several times a day.
> 
> 
> Info in the mail about Navigator, Phone calls, E-mails, or a combination of these things.
> 
> 
> Large traffic about Navigator on the Navigator boards and cities where a roll-out is expected.
> 
> 
> If you have 3 or more of those things happening, you could almost expect Navigator within days to two weeks maximum.
> 
> 
> Jack



Are you having any of those problems beside the guise data? Navigator might be coming.


----------



## hookbill

Not to my knowledge nickdawg. But I hardly use this box, my wife wanted to program Big Brother and that's when I saw the guide data issue.


We will wait until tomorrow and if no guide data I will reboot the box. If still no data on Monday i'll give my TW contact a call.


----------



## Digital Iggy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16767379
> 
> 
> Guys I'm showing no guide data for 6/9 on the SA 8300. The date is there but data empty. Anyone have guide data for 6/9 on any SA box?
> 
> 
> Last time this happened I had to go to the Macedonia office and force them to turn on their tv to prove there was no data. I can probably fix it with a phone call on Monday if necessary but I have to know if it is just my box.



I am having the same issues here too but my guide data is not shown from 7/8 wednesday through friday 7/10


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Iggy* /forum/post/16768394
> 
> 
> I am having the same issues here too but my guide data is not shown from 7/8 wednesday through friday 7/10



I have guide data on 7/8, just not 7/9. I haven't looked today to see about 7/10. Since you are ex Adelphia you probably have SARA. It's odd that you would be missing a date that I actually have since we both use the same guide.


nickdawg I believe the data you get for Navigator is different then the one SARA has. If I see no data for 7/10 I may give a call in today. You never know she may be there, she's been there before on holidays so I wouldn't be totally surprised.


I'm a little paranoid about rebooting the box myself since I originally had isssues with the install, however I know it rebooted when we had a power outage last week. It had to of even though I have a generator it doesn't come on for like about 15 seconds after the power goes out.


I'll check the box in a bit to see what's up with 7/10 data. If it's still the same I'll place a call in to head end and see if they can't fix it. This may not happen until Monday if my contact is not in.


Any other ex Adelphia people having issues with the guide data beyond 7/8?


Correction: I do not have guide data for 7/8. My wife had the remote when she showed me I ASS u Me d that she had checked the 8th too.


----------



## bassguitarman

no guide data here either

former adelphia

and I wanted to setup for the new shows next week


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16768621
> 
> 
> no guide data here either
> 
> former adelphia
> 
> and I wanted to setup for the new shows next week



Yep, I've already placed a call into head end. Hopefully she will not be on an extended holiday, otherwise this could be a bit of a battle.


I think she checks her voice mail even when she's not there so hopefully someone will take care of this soon.


Another reason why I hate TW DVR's. At least when I have a problem with guide data with my TiVo it's usually just one channel and probably something I don't record anyway. Plus TiVo's guide data goes out almost two weeks.


I feel like I've been sucked into the SA 8300 nightmare again.


----------



## hookbill

OK all you people with missing guide data I just heard back from my contact at TW and it is a known issue. Guide data should be back soon, no eta but they are working on it.


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16766329
> 
> 
> I told you not to press the panic button. Now looked what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a regular SA 8300 or HDC?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16766415
> 
> 
> Your box is dead. I had a similar problem with my 8300HD where it would not load the software and it would come on with only the channels under 100 and no DVR or guide. Sometimes the digital services would return soon other times it would sit there with the boot screen on forever and not load for hours or days.
> 
> 
> That box is done, you'll have to replace it.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16766517
> 
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> 
> It's just temporary. Try rebooting the box again til it comes back up and don't bother with the idiot techs and for the love of god, do NOT touch any buttons on the box or the remote until the Mystro boot sequence finishes.
> 
> 
> If it still continues to do this after a couple reboot attempts, then I would begin by looking at the incoming line as a culprit before assuming the box is dead.



I should just duct tape my hands together and have someone tie me to a chair when stuff happens, own worst enemy.


Went out last night, ate some ribs, came home 5 hours later and all was back to normal. I guess it just fixed itself.


thanks for all the input, i'll lock the boxes in a glass case where I can't get at 'em.


----------



## hookbill

Guide data is up in my area now.


----------



## bassguitarman

guide her now too

set dvr to record Warehouse 13 and Eureka

former adelphia


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16768621
> 
> 
> and I wanted to setup for the new shows next week



New shows?





















It's summer...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16770114
> 
> 
> Guide data is up in my area now.



Too bad. I was hoping TWC would punish you guys with Navigator too.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/16770108
> 
> 
> Went out last night, ate some ribs, came home 5 hours later and all was back to normal. I guess it just fixed itself.



Well, duh.... Everything's better after ribs...


----------



## nickdawg

Once again NBC programming took the back seat was strapped to the roof of the car so the Indians could be shown in prime time. At least this time the TV schedule correctly listed what was going to be shown latenight. One of these shows is the NBC fireworks special from New York. Of course this is in high definition and since WKYC has recorded HD in the past(Chuck as well as daily syndicated programming), I figured the latenight shows would be HD as well. I was wrong. At 2 I turned on "Lings" and what did I find? A effing windowboxed nightmare!! Why, oh why did the tard that pressed "record" tonight have to record the effing ANALOG FEED???







And to add insults to injury a HIGH DEFINITION Romona Robinson commercial aired during the SD episode of Kings. Obviously you can record HD, so why not record NBC programming in HD?? Chuck was perfect presented in HD in April. But no, not only was what would be a stunning event in HD not shown when it was intended, but now it is going to be shown in standard definition and make my TV screen a few sizes smaller.


I thought this transition was going to make things better. It would seem that no longer having two channels to work with would simplify things. Tape it in HD and the SD viewers get it with the sides cropped off. What could be easier than that? But no, the HD viewers get pissed on and the SD viewers get the same thing that used to be on the analog OTA channel. Did I forget to mention THE HD VIEWERS GET PISSED ON!!


But I guess it is no surprise. "Cleveland #1 Newscast" (as the HD promo points out) has been seriously slipping at the hands of Gannet's morons lately. Single anchor newscasts, layoffs/firings, paid programming in primetime. The numbers may say 1st place, but the product I view appears to be closer to WOIO, if you know what I mean. BoBo the chimp who works the control room should be sent to bed without dessert tonight for not recording the HD channel.


It's times like this I really miss WFMJ...


----------



## Vchat20

If it helps keep the argument going, I absolutely HATE that WFMJ now does centercut on the analog channel with primetime programming. Thank god for WKYC keeping every piece of the picture intact and running it letterboxed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16772386
> 
> 
> If it helps keep the argument going, I absolutely HATE that WFMJ now does centercut on the analog channel with primetime programming. Thank god for WKYC keeping every piece of the picture intact and *ruining* it letterboxed.



Fixed it. (wink)










Wow, you just made me love WFMJ even more. I despise letterbox and I was looking forward to its demise after the analog 3 went away. But no, those @$$holes are repackaging their OTA analog feed for TWC. So the viewer loses twice: A sh-tty analog source feed converted to digital and a jacked up letterbox presentation. I no longer watch WKYC on any TV other than my HD set. I love center cut and I think I'm going to get a converter just for that.


Correction: The SD Viewer loses *THREE TIMES*:

1. Crappy analog source feed

2. Ugly ass letterbox picture

3. No time/temperature bug on the Today show


WOIO Weather Now (channel 371) is now my go to weather channel in the morning.


----------



## ErieMarty

anything new from TW on when the next Release of HD channels will be ..and what they might be..


----------



## hookbill

See this is why I prefer O&O stations then network stations. At least in L.A. we never had a problem with sports interfering with local network broadcasting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16772703
> 
> 
> anything new from TW on when the next Release of HD channels will be ..and what they might be..



The answer is no, you won't be getting any this month. Enjoy your rate increase.


----------



## hookbill

If this has been posted already I apologize but I think it's important for the Elyria/Mentor area:


The launch of these HD services is postponed and no new date is available for some areas: Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family.

Digital Basic Tier HD: ESPN News and MLB

On or after June 15, the following services will be added in many areas:

Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family, Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, AMC, Golf, FX, Fox News, CNN.

Digital Basic Tier HD: ESPN News, MLB, National Geographic and Science Channel, Versus, Speed, ESPNU.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Versus, Speed, ESPNU.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers subscribing to the MLB Extra Innings or NHL Center Ice packages on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Game HD.
*On or after July 15, the following services will be added to Standard HD in the Elyria area: Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, AMC.

On or after July 15 WNWO HD will be added to the standard HD tier in areas where this is carried as a broadcast channel.

On or after July 15, the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier in the Elyria area: Versus, Speed, ESPNU.

On or after July 15, the following services will be added to HD for customers subscribing to the MLB Extra Innings or NHL Center Ice packages in the Elyria area: Game HD*

On or after June 26, Smithsonian HD on Demand will be added.

On or after July 15, WNEO Fusion and WNEO MHz Worldview will be added to Digital Access in some areas. In other areas WVIZ Ohio and WVIZ World will be added to Digital Access.

On or after July 13, 2009 the following changes will take place: Jewelry TV will be dropped from expanded basic and our digital level of service and ONTV will be added to expanded basic and our digital level of service; Shopping Plus will be dropped from our digital level of service and Liquidation will be added to our digital level of service.

On or after July 25, 2009, LoMejor On Demand will be added and SportsTime Ohio On Demand carriage will be resumed.


Familyland Network is ceasing operations and will be dropped from our Digital Choice Package.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16772791
> 
> 
> See this is why I prefer O&O stations then network stations. At least in L.A. we never had a problem with sports interfering with local network broadcasting.



Tell me about it. I used to hate WEWS with a burning passion because of their antics(dumping network programming or movies for local s--t), but recently they've really changed their ways and become a decent station. Also WOIO isn't doing a repeat performance of the infomercials in CBS primetime. Must've been slammed with emails, I know I sent one.


Now WKYC is sliding down the pooper. Apparently this isn't something unusual, as Gannet as a whore is making cutbacks in their TV station and newspaper divisions. Of course that's going to affect what we see. Single anchor shows, incompetent people doing jobs; in other words: WOIO.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16772814
> 
> 
> If this has been posted already
> 
> [...]
> 
> Familyland Network is ceasing operations and will be dropped from our Digital Choice Package.



In other words, TWC is adding and deleting a bunch of worthless garbage channels. Familyland? Never knew what it is or that we had it. Won't miss it. The new crap added, who cares.


I want MSNBC HD, Spike HD, Weather Channel HD, WGN HD, Style HD.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16772795
> 
> 
> The answer is no, you won't be getting any this month. Enjoy your rate increase.



for nothing...


Ops..I should have said...Thanks TW for nothing...lol


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16772319
> 
> 
> Once again NBC programming took the back seat was strapped to the roof of the car so the Indians could be shown in prime time. At least this time the TV schedule correctly listed what was going to be shown latenight. One of these shows is the NBC fireworks special from New York. Of course this is in high definition and since WKYC has recorded HD in the past(Chuck as well as daily syndicated programming), I figured the latenight shows would be HD as well. I was wrong. At 2 I turned on "Lings" and what did I find? A effing windowboxed nightmare!! Why, oh why did the tard that pressed "record" tonight have to record the effing ANALOG FEED???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And to add insults to injury a HIGH DEFINITION Romona Robinson commercial aired during the SD episode of Kings. Obviously you can record HD, so why not record NBC programming in HD?? Chuck was perfect presented in HD in April. But no, not only was what would be a stunning event in HD not shown when it was intended, but now it is going to be shown in standard definition and make my TV screen a few sizes smaller.
> 
> 
> I thought this transition was going to make things better. It would seem that no longer having two channels to work with would simplify things. Tape it in HD and the SD viewers get it with the sides cropped off. What could be easier than that? But no, the HD viewers get pissed on and the SD viewers get the same thing that used to be on the analog OTA channel. Did I forget to mention THE HD VIEWERS GET PISSED ON!!
> 
> 
> But I guess it is no surprise. "Cleveland #1 Newscast" (as the HD promo points out) has been seriously slipping at the hands of Gannet's morons lately. Single anchor newscasts, layoffs/firings, paid programming in primetime. The numbers may say 1st place, but the product I view appears to be closer to WOIO, if you know what I mean. BoBo the chimp who works the control room should be sent to bed without dessert tonight for not recording the HD channel.
> 
> 
> It's times like this I really miss WFMJ...



Don't be so quick to blame WKYC. We watched the CBS fireworks show "live" and it too was in SD 4X3. I even had a 2nd CBS feed to double check (my favorite CBS station WKBN) and it too was in 4X3. Ironically some commercials were in 16 x 9 HD but the actual event was SD. Maybe it was because Craig Ferguson was the host (his Late Night show is still in SD), or perhaps these fireworks were a rerun from a previous year?!? This is 2009. C'mon CBS get with it! Who wants to see fireworks in SD in this day and age.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16772814
> 
> 
> If this has been posted already I apologize but I think it's important for the Elyria/Mentor area:
> 
> 
> 
> On or after July 15 WNWO HD will be added to the standard HD tier in areas where this is carried as a broadcast channel.



I don't believe the WNWO addition was meant for the former Comcast zone


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16778256
> 
> 
> Don't be so quick to blame WKYC. We watched the CBS fireworks show "live" and it too was in SD 4X3. I even had a 2nd CBS feed to double check (my favorite CBS station WKBN) and it too was in 4X3. Ironically some commercials were in 16 x 9 HD but the actual event was SD. Maybe it was because Craig Ferguson was the host (his Late Night show is still in SD), or perhaps these fireworks were a rerun from a previous year?!? This is 2009. C'mon CBS get with it! Who wants to see fireworks in SD in this day and age.



NBC was WKYC's fault. According to the topic on the HDTV Programming topic, NBC had their show in HD this year and in years past. CBS was SD from the network this year.


What WKYC did was inexcusable because they have shown Chuck and Friday Night Lights in HD in the past. It makes no sense why they would record the analog feed now, when analog TV is over and they have HD recording equipment.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16778256
> 
> 
> Don't be so quick to blame WKYC. We watched the CBS fireworks show "live" and it too was in SD 4X3. I even had a 2nd CBS feed to double check (my favorite CBS station WKBN) and it too was in 4X3. Ironically some commercials were in 16 x 9 HD but the actual event was SD. Maybe it was because Craig Ferguson was the host (his Late Night show is still in SD), or perhaps these fireworks were a rerun from a previous year?!? This is 2009. C'mon CBS get with it! Who wants to see fireworks in SD in this day and age.



I guess I'll have to get the HD footage my son-in-law took from Hoboken where he watched it live on Saturday night! He said it came out spectacular, much better than he had ever expected. I was happy with my front-row seat at the Solon fireworks... it was a great show!


----------



## schandorsky

There is no longer any mention of the Elyria/Mentor area about getting any of the new HD channels(SDV):




Time Warner Cable’s agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.


WBNX, WAOH, WIVM, WOHZ, WYFX HD, WYTV, WKBN HD, WTVG, Lifeskool On Demand, Lifetime, Great American Country, GSN, BBC America On Demand, Inspirational Life, FSN Pittsburgh, NBA TV, E!, ShopNBC, Logo, Style, Weather Channel.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to Standard HD on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, and AMC.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Versus, Speed, ESPNU.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers subscribing to the MLB Extra Innings or NHL Center Ice packages on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Game HD.

On July 1, 2009, Familyland Network ceased operation and is no longer available on the Digital Choice Tier.

On or after July 13, 2009 the following changes will take place: Jewelry TV will be dropped from expanded basic and our digital level of service and ONTV will be added to expanded basic and our digital level of service; Shopping Plus will be dropped from our digital level of service and Liquidation will be added to our digital level of service. WVIZ Ohio and WVIZ World will be added to Digital Access.

On or after June 15, the following services will be added in many areas:

Standard HD: Bravo, CNBC, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, ABC Family, Lifetime Movie Network, Travel, AMC, Golf, FX, Fox News, CNN.

Digital Basic Tier HD: ESPN News, MLB, National Geographic and Science Channel, Versus, Speed, ESPNU.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Versus, Speed, ESPNU.

On or after June 15th: the following services will be added to HD for customers subscribing to the MLB Extra Innings or NHL Center Ice packages on a community by community basis in the greater Cleveland area: Game HD.

On or after July 15, WNEO Fusion and WNEO MHz Worldview will be added to Digital Access.

On or after July 15 WNWO HD will be added to the standard HD tier in areas where the broadcast channel is carried.

On or after July 25, 2009, LoMejor On Demand will be added and SportsTime Ohio On Demand carriage will be resumed.

In the Cadiz area on or after August11, 2009, the following networks will be added to the Lifeline Basic level of service: WTRF/ABC Multicast and WTRF/FOX Multicast.

In the Hopedale area on or after August11, 2009, the following changes will take place: WVPX/Ind will be dropped from the Lifeline Basic level of service and WTRF/ABC Multicast and WTRF/FOX Multicast will be added to the Lifeline Basic level of service. HBO will move from position 6 to position 36.

In the Jewett area on or after August11, 2009, the following changes will take place: WVPX/Ind and WYTV/ABC will be dropped from the Lifeline Basic level of service and WTRF/ABC Multicast and WTRF/FOX Multicast will be added to the Lifeline Basic level of service.

In the Scio area on or after August11, 2009, the following changes will take place: WVPX/Ind and WYTV/ABC will be dropped from the Lifeline Basic level of service and WTRF/ABC Multicast and WTRF/FOX Multicast will be added to the Lifeline Basic level of service.

From time to time, we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned: RFT TV, Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network may be added to the Digital Choice Package on or after August 15, 2009. Daystar will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


* Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.



Carriage level varies by area.


----------



## subavision212

Two quick questions, are the networks starting to use blu-ray for their movie presentations? I just flipped on Legally Blonde 2 on Fox and man is that picture amazing even on my 32 inch Dynex. With that much detail, I figured it had to be blu-ray but I wasn't sure if they were or could use them. Also, what's up with MSNBC in HD? I thought we were going to get that station added with the last bunch of channels. thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/16786546
> 
> 
> Two quick questions, are the networks starting to use blu-ray for their movie presentations? I just flipped on Legally Blonde 2 on Fox and man is that picture amazing even on my 32 inch Dynex. With that much detail, I figured it had to be blu-ray but I wasn't sure if they were or could use them. Also, what's up with MSNBC in HD? I thought we were going to get that station added with the last bunch of channels. thanks.



Blu-ray is 1080p. Networks broadcast in 1080i and 720p only. As far as MSNBC goes, I'm not even sure it's available in HD yet. And TW has not announced any additional HD channels, see the post above yours.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16786576
> 
> 
> Blu-ray is 1080p. Networks broadcast in 1080i and 720p only. As far as MSNBC goes, I'm not even sure it's available in HD yet. And TW has not announced any additional HD channels, see the post above yours.



MSNBC HD is available now. It launched on Monday 6/29. No word on when it is coming to TWC, except corporate has said it would be added in July.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16786110
> 
> 
> From time to time, we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned: RFT TV, Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network may be added to the Digital Choice Package on or after August 15, 2009. Daystar will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.
> 
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Carriage level varies by area.



The "RFT TV" mentioned above, might that be a typo and they meant RFD-TV?..If so, That will be a great addition for those that miss the Old TNN-Nashville Network..RFD-TV did sign a national agreement with Time Warner recently


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/16787319
> 
> 
> The "RFT TV" mentioned above, might that be a typo and they meant RFD-TV?..If so, That will be a great addition for those that miss the Old TNN-Nashville Network..RFD-TV did sign a national agreement with Time Warner recently



I get RFD-TV on Dish Network. Outside of Don Imus the rest of the programming is geared towards farmers. The music is no comparison to TNN, as they feature only "classic" country music i.e. old Porter Wagner and Dolly Parton shows (at least these shows are in color, probably the oldest color TV productions still being broadcast today) and polka shows.


This network is considered a "public interest" channel on Dish. Amazingly they were able to get Don Imus after his fall from grace. Outside of his hat he really does not belong on RFD. Don Imus is RFD-TV's "ace up their sleeve" to get carriage on systems that otherwise would never consider carrying this network.


----------



## nickdawg

Ohhhh boy!! I can't wait till we get RFD TV. Just what we need, another channel with a racist, bigot talk show host on it. And y'all know how much I love country music!!


----------



## Tim Lones

I also have had RFD-TV on Dish Network. The reason I compare it to the old TNN is that Ralph Emery and Crook and Chase, both formerly of TNN. have shows on there now..There's also a series of Country Music Specials from the 1980's, many of which were on TNN at one time.While it is definitely a rural based channel, there are actually some people that like that sort of thing..For the record, I didnt like them picking up Imus, but that will end at some point..


----------



## nickdawg

After rescanning for channels yesterday, I noticed there is now a channel 47.2, that is broadcasting in HD. I remember someone saying a cable system(not TWC) added a WOAC HD channel a few months back. Now one really exists OTA.


----------



## hookbill

I could care less about all these useless channels that I'm not going to now or never in the future watch. I got so much crap to watch just from FX and USA going HD I got enough to last me until the next Fall season starts.


TW adding some hillbilly channel doesn't surprise me, I mean look at the amount of wasted space they use already. I swear to God I have no idea what's on digital television anymore and with all the new HD the only analog I record are The Peoples Court and TNA Wrestling. I have no reason to look at WGN, don't care if they go HD or not. The rest of these "digital" channels are for people who do nothing else but watch television. It's got to be. Heaven knows I watch enough myself but I really don't know whats on my digital tier.


And Mr. Nappy Haired Imus the only reason I ever heard of him period was he was on the news for making that comment. Maybe once or twice I heard Howard Stearn mention him but I don't even listen to Howard anymore either.


One of the big surprises for me out of all the new HD channels is Palladia. They have some really friggen excellent concerts/shows on there from time to time. Unfortunately due to SDV there are all kinds of break ups and stuff but hey, it's better then nothing. I can live with it.


Speaking about SDV and since I'm going all over the place right now I want to talk about the MLB Extra Innings HD channel. Now I'm probably the only one on this thread who subscribes but I thought you'd be interested in hearing about this.


When a game isn't on there is a screen that shows what game(s) are broadcast that day and the time they will be broadcast. This is all done with some background music in Dolby 5.1.


But as soon as the game begins, off goes the Dolby 5.1 and on comes Dolby 2.0.







I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I first saw this, and why have on a menu screen with Dolby 5.1 just to switch the actual friggen game back to Dolby 2.0?


Well, at least I'm getting what I paid for now. And for the people in the Elyria/Mentor area, wow are you guys getting the royal shaft or what? Putting that mid July statement in there and then pulling it out just blows wads. I can understand the moto box issues but at least turn it on for the people who do have SA boxes. It's totally unfair, I'd be asking each month for a 20.00 credit.


Channels wanted in HD: SPIKE and MSNBC


OK I'll stop my ranting now. Have a good day guys.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16794981
> 
> 
> ...................
> 
> But as soon as the game begins, off goes the Dolby 5.1 and on comes Dolby 2.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I first saw this, and why have on a menu screen with Dolby 5.1 just to switch the actual friggen game back to Dolby 2.0?
> 
> .........................



You may have already set your receiver to do so, but an often overlooked DSP setting for 2 ch audio is decoding to ProLogic II instead of the old standard ProLogic.


PLII is a world of difference over plain old PL.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16795638
> 
> 
> You may have already set your receiver to do so, but an often overlooked DSP setting for 2 ch audio is decoding to ProLogic II instead of the old standard ProLogic.
> 
> 
> PLII is a world of difference over plain old PL.



I'm well aware of PLII. It's decent but not as nice as true Dolby 5.1.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16795712
> 
> 
> I'm well aware of PLII. It's decent but not as nice as true Dolby 5.1.



I figured you did.










I, like you, much prefer straight DD 5.1 when offered. But many prefer PLII for all low res input (2 ch, 4 ch, 5.1 ch, 7.1 ch in PLIIx).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16795779
> 
> 
> I figured you did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I, like you, much prefer straight DD 5.1 when offered. But many prefer PLII for all low res input (2 ch, 4 ch, 5.1 ch, 7.1 ch in PLIIx).



I can't recall a single time I ever felt PLIIx was better then 5.1. No matter what the input was. I think that quality of sound depends on the show not the station. For example lets take Law & Order. That show seems to be 3.1 not 5.1 no matter what. Nothing or little of nothing seems to pop out of the rear speakers. But take a show like Heroes, same channel and you have a completely different quality of sound.


----------



## JJkizak

PL-11c on my 7.1 system pretty well blocks the rear speakers and makes the center channel jump out at you with adequate levels from the side speakers.

JJK


----------



## dmking12370




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16794612
> 
> 
> After rescanning for channels yesterday, I noticed there is now a channel 47.2, that is broadcasting in HD. I remember someone saying a cable system(not TWC) added a WOAC HD channel a few months back. Now one really exists OTA.



This was covered in OMW a couple of weeks ago. Radiant Life Ministries runs all of their stations in HD and an SD simucast. I guess they managed to get all the HD equipment installed quickly for them to be broadcasting already.


BTW until they fired up this new subchannel, WOAC/WRLM never existed in high definition. Perhaps what you seen was someone talking about the post in OMW.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16797707
> 
> 
> I can't recall a single time I ever felt PLIIx was better then 5.1. No matter what the input was. I think that quality of sound depends on the show not the station. For example lets take Law & Order. That show seems to be 3.1 not 5.1 no matter what. Nothing or little of nothing seems to pop out of the rear speakers. But take a show like Heroes, same channel and you have a completely different quality of sound.



"x" would be if you had a 7.1 system with presence our surround back speakers, so there would be no audible difference feeding "x" to a 5.1 system.


I totally agree on the source material being a major factor. The one area where I use PLII on a 5.1 source is when the 5.1 audio is botched sending false signals of silence to the rears. Luckily it seems like a rare occurrence.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16794981
> 
> 
> I could care less about all these useless channels that I'm not going to now or never in the future watch. I got so much crap to watch just from FX and USA going HD I got enough to last me until the next Fall season starts.
> 
> 
> TW adding some hillbilly channel doesn't surprise me, I mean look at the amount of wasted space they use already. I swear to God I have no idea what's on digital television anymore and with all the new HD the only analog I record are The Peoples Court and TNA Wrestling. I have no reason to look at WGN, don't care if they go HD or not. The rest of these "digital" channels are for people who do nothing else but watch television. It's got to be. Heaven knows I watch enough myself but I really don't know whats on my digital tier.



Nickdawg, is that you?

























> Quote:
> And Mr. Nappy Haired Imus the only reason I ever heard of him period was he was on the news for making that comment. Maybe once or twice I heard Howard Stearn mention him but I don't even listen to Howard anymore either.



Other than that, the only thing I know about Imus is he used to be on MSNBC. And I was glad when he was fired. At least we won't have to see his "worn out leather glove" face in HD on MSNBC!











> Quote:
> One of the big surprises for me out of all the new HD channels is Palladia. They have some really friggen excellent concerts/shows on there from time to time. Unfortunately due to SDV there are all kinds of break ups and stuff but hey, it's better then nothing. I can live with it.



Palladia blows! From the repetitive programming and the unnecessary censorship. Yes, they censor 24 hours a day when: 1. They are not a basic cable channel and 2. Viacom owned Comedy Central shows uncensored programming after 1AM. I watched Lisa Lampanelli the other day on CC and heard the f-word, c-word, etc. And the picture is horrendous. Almost every live concert is trashed by picture breakup. Last week I was excited to see Green Day on Palladia. Let's just say that went to the delete pile in record time. Between the censorship and the fact I had been watching OTA HD for two days before it, the picture (lack of)quality was painful to watch.



> Quote:
> Speaking about SDV and since I'm going all over the place right now I want to talk about the MLB Extra Innings HD channel. Now I'm probably the only one on this thread who subscribes but I thought you'd be interested in hearing about this.
> 
> 
> When a game isn't on there is a screen that shows what game(s) are broadcast that day and the time they will be broadcast. This is all done with some background music in Dolby 5.1.
> 
> 
> But as soon as the game begins, off goes the Dolby 5.1 and on comes Dolby 2.0.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I first saw this, and why have on a menu screen with Dolby 5.1 just to switch the actual friggen game back to Dolby 2.0?



That probably has nothing to do with SDV. Depending on the source of the game, it may originate in 2.0. I don't see the big deal. I have 5.1 and 2.0 programming. I don't change it, if it is 2 channel, that's how I watch it. If it is 5 channel, that's how I watch it.



> Quote:
> Well, at least I'm getting what I paid for now. And for the people in the Elyria/Mentor area, wow are you guys getting the royal shaft or what? Putting that mid July statement in there and then pulling it out just blows wads. I can understand the moto box issues but at least turn it on for the people who do have SA boxes. It's totally unfair, I'd be asking each month for a 20.00 credit.
> 
> 
> Channels wanted in HD: SPIKE and MSNBC
> 
> 
> OK I'll stop my ranting now. Have a good day guys.



Ahhhh, who cares!! Elyria/Mentor: Life is not much better on the SDV side of the street. Between the toilet quality picture and the other "Problems" that go along with it, I miss the way things used to be. This whole thing has been a disaster and I feel even more stupid for ever thinking this would go well. Hookbill was right, he always is. TWC is incompetent. And the new channels blow.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmking12370* /forum/post/16797949
> 
> 
> This was covered in OMW a couple of weeks ago. Radiant Life Ministries runs all of their stations in HD and an SD simucast. I guess they managed to get all the HD equipment installed quickly for them to be broadcasting already.



I remember seeing that there was a HD version available, but I never expected we would see it that soon. Just like how ION has a HD channel, but it isn't here yet.



> Quote:
> BTW until they fired up this new subchannel, WOAC/WRLM never existed in high definition. Perhaps what you seen was someone talking about the post in OMW.



Here it is:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/15861817
> 
> 
> Cox Cleveland in it's infinite wisdom just added WOAC-HD !
> 
> Now, I don't think that WOAC has any real programs let alone high def programs.



The post was on 2/19/09, after WOAC shut off on the original DTV date. Maybe that's why COX thought they needed to add the (nonexistent) HD channel.


----------



## Tim Lones

I caught the WRLM-2 channel last night. I dont think its as much an HD channel as a channel for more programs and time shifting of regular shows on the main channel..When I tuned in, they were showing the old "Robin Hood" series from the 1950's..Part of a block that Included


8:30 Beverly Hillbillies (Likely Public Domain)

9PM Dusty's Trail (1972-Gilligan out West)

9:30 Robin Hood


That's all I could find in the way of secular programs on the channel..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/16799277
> 
> 
> I caught the WRLM-2 channel last night. I dont think its as much an HD channel as a channel for more programs and time shifting of regular shows on the main channel..When I tuned in, they were showing the old "Robin Hood" series from the 1950's..Part of a block that Included
> 
> 
> 8:30 Beverly Hillbillies (Likely Public Domain)
> 
> 9PM Dusty's Trail (1972-Gilligan out West)
> 
> 9:30 Robin Hood
> 
> 
> That's all I could find in the way of secular programs on the channel..



The on screen data is wrong. Both channels say "Paid Programming" all day. Even Titan TV has paid programming listed for both channels. Of course the the generic program descriptions when you change channels on the digital TV are usually inaccurate. I'm watching Samantha Who on ABC and it is listed as "In the Motherhood". Wherever the DTV PSIP data comes from is not correct.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16794981
> 
> 
> And Mr. Nappy Haired Imus the only reason I ever heard of him period was he was on the news for making that comment. Maybe once or twice I heard Howard Stearn mention him but I don't even listen to Howard anymore either.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16798108
> 
> 
> Other than that, the only thing I know about Imus is he used to be on MSNBC. And I was glad when he was fired.



Geez, neither of you guys remembers Don Imus from his days on WGAR and WHK? He was an idiot back then, too (1970s), but nowhere near as bad as he's become in recent years. But he began making his name right here in CLE.


In many ways, he was the inspiration for Howard Stern. They're cut from the same cloth.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16800941
> 
> 
> Geez, neither of you guys remembers Don Imus from his days on WGAR and WHK? He was an idiot back then, too (1970s), but nowhere near as bad as he's become in recent years. But he began making his name right here in CLE.
> 
> 
> In many ways, he was the inspiration for Howard Stern. They're cut from the same cloth.



I didn't get to Cleveland until 2004. And he wasn't on Los Angeles radio, at least to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## Vchat20

Before my time sadly by a decade or so.







But I've occasionally surfed past his program when it was on tv in he wee hours of the morning and he seemed like a pompous 'clean' Stern to me so never took interest.


----------



## hookbill

Am I the only one who thinks the pq of not only their regular broadcasts (excluding old footage) but their baseball games is just outstanding.


I'd like to know what they are broadcasting in. I'm willing to bet it's 720p.


If you haven't given a look you ought to. I feel it blows away ESPN and STO. PQ wise STO may be equal but when it comes to their sound MLBnet just rocks. Plus you get Bob Costas who in my book is one of the best play by play men in baseball.


It's on Thursday and Saturday nights.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16801389
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks the pq of not only their regular broadcasts (excluding old footage) but their baseball games is just outstanding.
> 
> 
> I'd like to know what they are broadcasting in. I'm willing to bet it's 720p.
> 
> 
> If you haven't given a look you ought to. I feel it blows away ESPN and STO. PQ wise STO may be equal but when it comes to their sound MLBnet just rocks. Plus you get Bob Costas who in my book is one of the best play by play men in baseball.
> 
> 
> It's on Thursday and Saturday nights.



Yes it is 720p. It probably looks better than STO because STO is 1080i, like the NBC station they are affiliated with. MLB does look really good compared to the other 720p I can think of: FOX.


This may be unpopular, but I wish more networks would go 720p. Cable and broadcast are both bad. On the broadcast side you have subchannels and on cable it is worse with the squeezing channels in 3 or 4 per QAM. And the 1080i ones seem to suffer more. Part of the reason why I'm so desperate to see WKBN is I want to know how the CBS channel looks at 720p. Even through OTA, I still find the picture less than stellar on WOIO(thanks to that weather bullsh!t). OTOH, I think WEWS is the best looking broadcast channel in the market. WJW is a close second, on local news HD, not primetime(since FOX pre-starves their HD feed).


----------



## Vchat20

nick, you do realize that WKBN is also running WYFX at 720p as 21-2? So in that regard your point would be moot (even though the WKBN engineer has worked some major miracles to keep the PQ as optimum as possible on both channels in the limited 18mbit window).


----------



## infoman1

SDV sucks. Half of the time, like right now currently I get the dreaded message "not available at this time, please try again" I am really sick and tired of paying premium money for less than premium service. The boxes 8240HDC and 4250 have to be rebooted at least twice a week. Signal level is fine +5 and +4 S/N 34db. And whats really annoying is the stuttering and pixel breakup right in the middle of what your watching. Technician is coming tommorrow, but this just might the straw. @135.00 a month there gone!


----------



## JJkizak

OTA 3, 19, 49, 43, 55, & 25 have the best HD PQ in my area. 8 is a bit on the mushy side like old VHS, just a tiny bit. 5 used to be bad but they have made drastic improvements and they are very close to 3, 19, and 25. 5 had the gamma, contrast and brightness out of wack for a long time but they look pretty good now. 8 seems like they are cheating on the bitrate. These are all local live news evaluations on my part with the exception of 55. Tough to make evaluations when they show films with judder (24P), aspect changes from 2.35 x 1 to 16.x 9 and stretchovision as so wonderfully demonstrated on 47.2.

JJK


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/16804974
> 
> 
> OTA 3, 19, 49, 43, 55, & 25 have the best HD PQ in my area. 8 is a bit on the mushy side like old VHS, just a tiny bit. *5 used to be bad but they have made drastic improvements and they are very close to 3, 19, and 25*. 5 had the gamma, contrast and brightness out of wack for a long time but they look pretty good now. 8 seems like they are cheating on the bitrate. These are all local live news evaluations on my part with the exception of 55. Tough to make evaluations when they show films with judder (24P), aspect changes from 2.35 x 1 to 16.x 9 and stretchovision as so wonderfully demonstrated on 47.2.
> 
> JJK



Wait, so 5's PQ is getting worse? I find channel 19 to be one of the worst channels I've seen OTA. On CSI:NY the other day, fast action scenes were a bit blurry. I've heard about the sharp PQ through CBS O&Os, we definitely do not have that thanks to Raycheap and their weather channel. WKYC ain't pretty either.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16804872
> 
> 
> SDV sucks. Half of the time, like right now currently I get the dreaded message "not available at this time, please try again" I am really sick and tired of paying premium money for less than premium service. The boxes 8240HDC and 4250 have to be rebooted at least twice a week. Signal level is fine +5 and +4 S/N 34db. And whats really annoying is the stuttering and pixel breakup right in the middle of what your watching. Technician is coming tommorrow, but this just might the straw. @135.00 a month there gone!



I hate to say it, but that service call will likely not fix the problem. All the problems I had in the past were never fixed by the in house technician. It was a problem higher up in distribution. THREE techs came and went before I learned from the last one "there was a problem in the area" since all my signal levels were perfect. And still to this day I have problems on some channels. I can't tell you how many shows I've had ruined on F/X because the first minute and a half were breaking up picture/dropping out audio.


For me, I have picture break up and audio dropout at the top and bottom of every hour, like clockwork. And the breakup lasts for a minute/minute and a half. And I've lost countless recordings because the channel decides to become unavailable.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16805091
> 
> 
> I hate to say it, but that service call will likely not fix the problem. All the problems I had in the past were never fixed by the in house technician. It was a problem higher up in distribution. THREE techs came and went before I learned from the last one "there was a problem in the area" since all my signal levels were perfect. And still to this day I have problems on some channels. I can't tell you how many shows I've had ruined on F/X because the first minute and a half were breaking up picture/dropping out audio.
> 
> 
> For me, I have picture break up and audio dropout at the top and bottom of every hour, like clockwork. And the breakup lasts for a minute/minute and a half. And I've lost countless recordings because the channel decides to become unavailable.



Glad to hear I'm not alone with the picture breakups on the hour and half hour. We get this on STO in Erie, and have for months. STO tried to work with TW techs here, but finally gave up. Guess we're screwed.......


----------



## Inundated

Re: Don Imus...in his WFAN/Westwood One incarnation, WKNR-then-1220 carried him in morning drive. That's when sports stations would basically copy WFAN if they aired duck noises.


Plus, 'KNR was certainly aware of Imus' history in the Cleveland market. When he "screwed up" at WNBC/660 in NYC, he was, well, "exiled" to Cleveland. Of course, WNBC became WFAN, and Imus ran in morning drive there until that recent controversy.


Re: WRLM/WOAC - I get the idea that the "HD" subchannel does run at least some TCT-produced programming in HD...probably including their "TCT Today" talk show. Like most channels labeled "HD", you can probably find lots of upconverted junk as well.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16806425
> 
> 
> Re: Don Imus...in his WFAN/Westwood One incarnation, WKNR-then-1220 carried him in morning drive. That's when sports stations would basically copy WFAN if they aired duck noises.
> 
> 
> Plus, 'KNR was certainly aware of Imus' history in the Cleveland market. When he "screwed up" at WNBC/660 in NYC, he was, well, "exiled" to Cleveland. Of course, WNBC became WFAN, and Imus ran in morning drive there until that recent controversy.
> 
> 
> Re: WRLM/WOAC - I get the idea that the "HD" subchannel does run at least some TCT-produced programming in HD...probably including their "TCT Today" talk show. Like most channels labeled "HD", you can probably find lots of upconverted junk as well.



re: Don Imus:

I was in high school when Don Imus was on WGAR (it was AM 1220 back then). He used to do stunts like calling a local McDonald's saying he was a general in the "International Guard". He would order 10,000 Big Macs some with ketchup, some with mustard etc. then kept changing how many got ketchup etc. He predates Howard Stern by around 10 years. Don Imus was one of the original "shock jocks" before Stern and without using sex to be outrageous.


re: WOAC/WRLM:

If you see "Paid Program" that's left-over guide data from the time that Multicultural owned WOAC. The correct guide data just started displaying on Dish Network (and they still have the call letters wrong!). I noticed that this incorrect, leftover guide data was being sent over their OTA PSIP data early on. Dish carries 47.1 on the satellite so that data also shows up on the OTA version. When I rescanned I see WRLM 47.1 and 47.2 (no guide data for the HD feed). The same programs as the OTA 47.1 are listed as WOAC 47.0 for the satellite feed.


The first program I saw on 47.2 was "TCT Today" in true HD, not stretchovision. I did catch a daytime program in stretchovision.


What channel (47.1 or 47.2) carried the classic "secular" shows? I would hope that they don't put these shows in stretchovision.


----------



## JJkizak

On OTA 47.2 Beverly Hillbillies was stretched along with all the others. Even when they show an HD program it isn't quite right, they are somewhat squeezed vertically. On 47.1 they show the correct 4 x 3 aspect part of the time and slightly horizontally squeezed 4 x 3 at other times.

JJK


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16801389
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks the pq of not only their regular broadcasts (excluding old footage) but their baseball games is just outstanding.
> 
> 
> I'd like to know what they are broadcasting in. I'm willing to bet it's 720p.
> 
> 
> If you haven't given a look you ought to. I feel it blows away ESPN and STO. PQ wise STO may be equal but when it comes to their sound MLBnet just rocks. Plus you get Bob Costas who in my book is one of the best play by play men in baseball.
> 
> 
> It's on Thursday and Saturday nights.



I heartily agree with you. This was one of the first of the new HD stations I looked at after getting my new 65" plasma calibrated and it looks amazing. way better than STO.


----------



## hookbill

Did anybody with a TiVo notice that change in the line up the other day adding ONTV4U channel 180. Well, that was incorrect and Tribune Media in it's own guide has it listed twice, once at 180 and once at 187.


Channel 180 is a mirror channel of the Jewlery channel, analog in my area. Tribune Media, what are you doing?


Isn't it sad when the only thing I can talk about in this forum currently is about an infomercial channel and an error that affects only TiVos?


Took a look at the TW notifications page. No changes that I noticed, still no love for Elyria/Mentor although there is still the vague reference to something possibly happening on July 15. Guess you will find out tomorrow.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16822999
> 
> 
> Did anybody with a TiVo notice that change in the line up the other day adding ONTV4U channel 180. Well, that was incorrect and Tribune Media in it's own guide has it listed twice, once at 180 and once at 187.
> 
> 
> Channel 180 is a mirror channel of the Jewlery channel, analog in my area. Tribune Media, what are you doing?
> 
> 
> Isn't it sad when the only thing I can talk about in this forum currently is about an infomercial channel and an error that affects only TiVos?
> 
> 
> Took a look at the TW notifications page. No changes that I noticed, still no love for Elyria/Mentor although there is still the vague reference to something possibly happening on July 15. Guess you will find out tomorrow.



You are not alone. Tribune screws up the listings on my Dish Network DVR too. I guess when a company (Tribune) the only game in town (i.e. no competition for the service provided) they can screw-up with impunity.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16823279
> 
> 
> You are not alone. Tribune screws up the listings on my Dish Network DVR too. I guess when a company (Tribune) the only game in town (i.e. no competition for the service provided) they can screw-up with impunity.



I didn't know Tribune Media did Dish but it figures they have to do somebody other then just TiVo.


----------



## schandorsky

July 15th is here in Amherst (part of the Elyria/Mentor area) and still no SDV or the new HD channels that everybody else in northeast Ohio is enjoying.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16829741
> 
> 
> July 15th is here in Amherst (part of the Elyria/Mentor area) and still no SDV or the new HD channels that everybody else in northeast Ohio is enjoying.



I have no idea what their plan is. Maybe they want all the Moto boxes back first. But if that was the case they would have announced a plan to have people turn them in.


I'll bet only a handful of people are really aware that other areas get more HD then they do. Still they risk losing customers to D* or E* by not providing the new channels.


I'd pound out another email to Steve Fry asking for a definite date. This is absolute BS.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16829774
> 
> 
> I have no idea what their plan is. Maybe they want all the Moto boxes back first. But if that was the case they would have announced a plan to have people turn them in.
> 
> 
> I'll bet only a handful of people are really aware that other areas get more HD then they do. Still they risk losing customers to D* or E* by not providing the new channels.
> 
> 
> I'd pound out another email to Steve Fry asking for a definite date. This is absolute BS.




About three weeks ago I took a day off work and I made the mistake of swapping out my old Motorola DVR box in anticipation of the July 15th SDV turn on. The SA8300 DVR is terrible compared to the old Motorola box. There is a long delay for the picture to come up when changing channels. Its real annoying. I was thinking it may be and HDMI issue but I was using the HDMI on the Moto box. The DVR leaves lots to be be desired too. It may be that I just need to change the way I used to set up recordings though. If the SDV was not comming I would have been more than happy to keep my old box. I wil be calling to to see if I can get a discount on monthly rate until we get brought up to the level of other TWC location in NEO. If not It may be back to DISH for me.


Ray


----------



## hbomber202020




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16829741
> 
> 
> July 15th is here in Amherst (part of the Elyria/Mentor area) and still no SDV or the new HD channels that everybody else in northeast Ohio is enjoying.



I'm in the mentor area, I'll be checking asap when I get home from work.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16830551
> 
> 
> About three weeks ago I took a day off work and I made the mistake of swapping out my old Motorola DVR box in anticipation of the July 15th SDV turn on. The SA8300 DVR is terrible compared to the old Motorola box. There is a long delay for the picture to come up when changing channels. Its real annoying. I was thinking it may be and HDMI issue but I was using the HDMI on the Moto box. The DVR leaves lots to be be desired too. It may be that I just need to change the way I used to set up recordings though. If the SDV was not comming I would have been more than happy to keep my old box. I wil be calling to to see if I can get a discount on monthly rate until we get brought up to the level of other TWC location in NEO. If not It may be back to DISH for me.
> 
> 
> Ray



Let me know how that works for you. The decent thing for them to do is to give you the newbie discount for at least two months. They may offer you a 20.00 refund.


----------



## hbomber202020




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16830551
> 
> 
> About three weeks ago I took a day off work and I made the mistake of swapping out my old Motorola DVR box in anticipation of the July 15th SDV turn on. The SA8300 DVR is terrible compared to the old Motorola box. There is a long delay for the picture to come up when changing channels. Its real annoying. I was thinking it may be and HDMI issue but I was using the HDMI on the Moto box. The DVR leaves lots to be be desired too. It may be that I just need to change the way I used to set up recordings though. If the SDV was not comming I would have been more than happy to keep my old box. I wil be calling to to see if I can get a discount on monthly rate until we get brought up to the level of other TWC location in NEO. If not It may be back to DISH for me.
> 
> 
> Ray



I've only ever had the SA8300 hd dvr, about 3 of them.


They all do the "delay" when switching channels, because of the auto setup on the box in regards to resolution, i.e 1080i, 720p, 480i, etc.. Which is the best way and only way to set up the box. The "delay" you're seeing is when you flip between a 1080i station to a 720p station, the screen flickers twice and then shows the program.


----------



## nickdawg

There is a way to avoid that. If you have a 1080i/p TV, set the SA box to output 1080i all the time. Or if you have a 720p TV, set it to 720p only. Mine is set to 1080i all the time and I have no channel change delays at all.


----------



## Inundated

My SA8000HD is set up to output 1080i all the time to my 720p LCD HDTV. It looks better than matching the resolution in the output.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16830977
> 
> 
> My SA8000HD is set up to output 1080i all the time to my 720p LCD HDTV. It looks better than matching the resolution in the output.



My LCD TV is 720p native. I have TiVo set to that input except SD channels, they are set for 480p.


In a totally unrelated matter, TiVo decided to reboot for reasons unknown to me. It did this shortly after I requested to record Letterman tonight off the guide.


When it rebooted I noticed the green light on the tuner adapter stayed solid. That's not what you want on a reboot, you want it blinking for a while I think it's 6 blinks and a pause. I disconnected the USB on the back and still no connection.


I did get it back. I powered down the tuner adapter and did another reboot. This time I got the blinking light and it downloaded the SDV channels.


----------



## nickdawg

Hmmm, that interesting that 1080i setting looks good on a 720p set too. For outputs, I'd never use the 480i or p. I've tried it before and could not believe the horrible result it produced. It was equivalent to using the S Video input on my HDTV(because that's what it is: a 480i input). SD channels look better on 1080i. Plus I cannot stand the screen flickering when it changes. Makes me think that would break the TV, it doesn't seem normal.


----------



## k2rj

A lot depends upon the TV. When I installed my set (over 4 years ago now!) I experimented with different output resolution settings and found my Panny had best overall performance on both HD and SD with it fixed at 720p.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hbomber202020* /forum/post/16830758
> 
> 
> I've only ever had the SA8300 hd dvr, about 3 of them.
> 
> 
> They all do the "delay" when switching channels, because of the auto setup on the box in regards to resolution, i.e 1080i, 720p, 480i, etc.. Which is the best way and only way to set up the box.



It's not the _only_ way to set up the box, since you can set the 8300HD to output everything at FIXED resolution (either 720p or 1080i) via HDMI. Then there is no delay. Whether it's the _best_ way or not depends on your display. I have a 720p plasma display, and by trial and error I discovered that setting the box to 1080i FIXED does not give me better results than allowing the 8300HD to send the unscaled video signal to my display. So I don't have to deal with that annoying delay. (your mileage may vary).


----------



## hbomber202020

Yeah I should've said the only way to constantly accept the changing resolutions for channels, watch them in native for the channel/station and nothing else needed todo by me.


I have it set that way, so I can take advantage of 1080i on hbo and 720p on espn, for example, the flickering is a pain but I'm used to it for so long. To be honest, I really haven't even messed with only accepting 720p, I'll try that out and see how I like it. I have a 720p TV, prefer 720p over 1080i actually.


and still no new hd channel additions in the mentor area.


----------



## nickdawg

I watch everything at 1080i, including ESPN and other 720p channels. I've tried using 720p all the time and I didn't notice anything better or worse about it. And the new SDV channels, I've tried those at all resolutions and they still suck. Even at 480i Palladia looks blurry/blocky during fast motion. I'm watching WOIO through OTA right now, and it looks better than anything on cable.


----------



## ErieMarty

Time Warner looks at HD troubles


Published: July 15. 2009 1:15AM


Time Warner Cable is adding more high-definition channels in its western Pennsylvania and northeast Ohio division, with a goal of 100 by the end of the year.


But some cable subscribers aren't getting the whole picture.


Some of the recently added HD channels aren't always available -- a problem that the cable company said it is working to fix.


Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said the problem isn't widespread, but he could not estimate how many customers are being affected.


He called it an "intermittent problem'' where some channels go out at different times of the day.


"We have had customers communicate to us issues with certain HD channels. It's not a significant amount of phone calls, but enough that we are currently working on a resolution,'' he said.


Reynolds said he did not know what is causing the problem, reported throughout its service division. "It's just kind of a hit-or-miss thing,'' he said.


In Erie and Erie County, Time Warner Cable now offers more than 40 HD channels, Reynolds said. That's double the number of HD channels since March, when it started to add at least five channels a month as it competes with satellite TV for the HD market.


Time Warner does not charge extra for its HD stations, aside from four channels on a special HD tier that costs $6.95 a month, Reynolds said. Those who pay extra for premium channels such as HBO, don't pay more for those same premium channels in HD, he said.


Some upcoming free programming additions to the HD schedule, subject to change, could include the Cartoon Network, Weather Channel, Biography, Outdoor, Fox Business and Planet Green.


The Times Publishing Company, which publishes the Erie Times-News, is part owner of Erie Telecommunications, which is part of the Time Warner Cable television group and serves the city of Erie and parts of Erie County.


HD CHANNELS

Free HD channels added by Time Warner Cable this year:

-ESPN News HD

-Major League Baseball HD

-Golf HD

-USA HD

-Discovery Channel HD

-TLC HD

-Science HD

-Animal Planet HD

-National Geographic HD

-Disney HD

-ABC Family HD

-Lifetime Movie HD

-Bravo HD

-Palladia HD

-SCI FI HD

-FX HD

-CNN HD

-Fox News HD

-CNBC HD


Source: Time Warner Cable

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...WS02/307159950


----------



## hookbill

I had two shows that were partial recordings. Probably the HD channel going down. Using BT to get one back the other was just short 2 minutes. Both on the same night one on a SDV channel one not.


----------



## Vchat20

I'm still of the idea that they need to just drop all their analogs but the must-carry local channels and go all digital the rest of the way. And while doing that, drop SDV. Will save them tons of headaches and we can start getting a lot more HD channels without fighting with 'Ok, which is more important to add NOW? Do we need to add another SDV slot? etc. etc.'


As I have been researching lately, apparently it is not the FCC locking them into this mess. There may be some franchising agreement stipulations (which are always a PITA. Crybabies who want to keep all their analogs and a ton of digital and HD channels too while running it all on the existing ancient HFC plant. Sorry, not gonna work.), but otherwise is all up to the cableco beancounters and execs. I guess this is one reason why Comcast has been able to get away with it in some regions. Franchise agreements and the like working in their favor.


Read my lips Mr. Jassoe, Mr. Fry, and the other executives there in Canton: Analog is going away. We are in the 21st century. Get with the times.


----------



## nickdawg

What is even more pathetic is cable is making people PAY for analog. Even free TV is no longer analog. With a CECB, you'll get a picture 100% better than cable. That's why I'm getting converter box, I hate the garbage analog cable on my TV without the box.


----------



## wd8kct

 Blueprint for losing cable customers


----------



## nickdawg

Isn't the Beacon Journal great? They've been the best weapon against TWC lately. I've enjoyed reading Betty Lin Fisher's article about their pricing the last two weeks. And then this week I get a card about a $5 increase.


EDIT: Tonight during Craig Ferguson those tossers at TWC really said something that pissed me off. "Enjoy a clear, full screen picture, not a boxed in one". Sounds like they are talking about how a HD channel has bars on all four sides on a SDTV set. There's a very simple fix to that: SET THE CONVERTER BOX TO ZOOM!! It makes a fullscreen 4:3 picture. TWC is truly desperate if they have to use things like that and the ability to use your same TV remote with analog cable. TWC should be in prison for scamming customers. They're making people pay for service that is inferior to over the air DTV.


----------



## nickdawg

Anybody get this fun letter in the mail this week?


----------



## bassguitarman

Gee only a 10 percent increase

they are unbelievable


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16830776
> 
> 
> There is a way to avoid that. If you have a 1080i/p TV, set the SA box to output 1080i all the time. Or if you have a 720p TV, set it to 720p only. Mine is set to 1080i all the time and I have no channel change delays at all.




thanks Nickdawg.

I printed out the instructions to set this up from the HDTV recorder forum and I will set mine to 1080i tonight.

Ray


----------



## shooter21198

as we all know we will all be happier with our high priced bills and garbage picture quality HD channels.

SDV doesn't look like its going to be fixed soon and its halfway through the year they better be releasing 7-10 HD channels per month in August and September to get that 100 HD Channel mark that we were promised


----------



## hookbill

As far as the price increase goes, I haven't seen it yet but it's been talked about for several weeks.


As far as TW goes, hey pick your poison, Comcrap, Crime Warner, they all are bad.


Now if you truly believe that TW is going to have 100 HD channels by end of year, I think you got to be kidding yourself. Of course If you'd ask me in February if we'd have 40 channels I would have said the same thing.


What really pisses me off is in the channels that were mentioned no SPIKE TV. Cartoon network? I've never understood that. What kid honestly cares if his cartoons are in HD or not?


SDV has been a pleasant surprise to me. Pleasant in the fact that not only is it giving TiVo people a bad time, it's doing it to SA people too.


Thank you TW. Can I have another?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16836976
> 
> 
> What really pisses me off is in the channels that were mentioned no SPIKE TV. Cartoon network? I've never understood that. What kid honestly cares if his cartoons are in HD or not?



More a nitpick, but: Maybe people who aren't kids and care about quality?


Though the way they are going these days with all the garbage and more 'reality shows' than real cartoons and the lack of actual HD content even when the shows are produced as such, I can't even see any kids with a modest set of brains caring for the channel. Used to watch the channel regularly when some decent 'toons were on, but not anymore.


Same goes for Nickelodeon though that transition happened a LONG time ago...


----------



## nickdawg

Cartoon Network is GARBAGE. It is a Turner owned network and you know what that means: STRETCHOVISION!! Even stuff that is shown in 16:9, like Aqua Teen Hunger Force is stretched letterbox on CN HD. The only real HD they've had so far is the Star Wars Clone Wars cartoon last year. Nickelodeon is a Viacom network so they follow the MTV model: SD programming with sidebars on the "HD" channel.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16836976
> 
> 
> As far as the price increase goes, I haven't seen it yet but it's been talked about for several weeks.
> 
> 
> As far as TW goes, hey pick your poison, Comcrap, Crime Warner, they all are bad.
> 
> 
> Now if you truly believe that TW is going to have 100 HD channels by end of year, I think you got to be kidding yourself. Of course If you'd ask me in February if we'd have 40 channels I would have said the same thing.
> 
> 
> What really pisses me off is in the channels that were mentioned no SPIKE TV. Cartoon network? I've never understood that. What kid honestly cares if his cartoons are in HD or not?
> 
> 
> SDV has been a pleasant surprise to me. Pleasant in the fact that not only is it giving TiVo people a bad time, it's doing it to SA people too.
> 
> 
> Thank you TW. Can I have another?



Oh there's no way. I think we will still have 40 HD channels at the end of the year. It seems like TWC quit adding channels. I'll bet it has something to do with SDV. Maybe adding more SDV slots would cause problems(more than we currently have) or they need to rape some more WORKING channels to convert to SDV. If they start putting basic tier channels on SDV, I'm dumping TWC. At least I can watch the analog versions of F/X, CNN, USA, etc. If those meet the same fate as SDV, I'm done. I'm not paying $5 more for channels that are "Not Available". Life is looking better on the OTA side of the street. I watched WOIO HD for three hours last night with no problems at all. The picture was blocky with sound intact once or twice. That is still better than the SDV picture breakup every half hour.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16837285
> 
> 
> Oh there's no way. I think we will still have 40 HD channels at the end of the year. It seems like TWC quit adding channels. I'll bet it has something to do with SDV. Maybe adding more SDV slots would cause problems(more than we currently have) or they need to rape some more WORKING channels to convert to SDV. If they start putting basic tier channels on SDV, I'm dumping TWC. At least I can watch the analog versions of F/X, CNN, USA, etc. If those meet the same fate as SDV, I'm done. I'm not paying $5 more for channels that are "Not Available". Life is looking better on the OTA side of the street. I watched WOIO HD for three hours last night with no problems at all. The picture was blocky with sound intact once or twice. That is still better than the SDV picture breakup every half hour.



They won't put any of the local HD channels on SDV. That much I can promise you. The rest is anybodies guess.


They need to get rid of analog all together, then put all those ridiculous cable channels that nobody watches on SDV. Of course they CAN'T get rid of analog, at least not for a while but they can take every digital channel and put that on SDV. At least that would free up more space.


Funny, I'm going to disagree with you nickdawg on the HD channel thing. I think they will add more. Probably 6 as opposed to 60 but I think there will still be more added.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16837318
> 
> 
> They won't put any of the local HD channels on SDV. That much I can promise you. The rest is anybodies guess.
> 
> 
> They need to get rid of analog all together, then put all those ridiculous cable channels that nobody watches on SDV. Of course they CAN'T get rid of analog, at least not for a while but they can take every digital channel and put that on SDV. At least that would free up more space.
> 
> 
> Funny, I'm going to disagree with you nickdawg on the HD channel thing. I think they will add more. Probably 6 as opposed to 60 but I think there will still be more added.



If they dumped all analog channels except those from 2-15, there would be no reason to keep using SDV. TWC in New York City has more 'must carry' local channels on analog. NYC dumped all the cable analog channels and had enough bandwidth to add 100 HD channels, with room still left!! If they would dump analog, there would be no need to use the faulty SDV technology, there would be enough room to be competitive with satellite.


----------



## Vchat20

Here's really the way it should go:


1) Dump all the analogs but the must carries.

2) Make the rest digital only channels and either provide low cost or free 'basic tuners' like [email protected] uses or send out the old Pioneer boxes or some other neutered equipment for basic subscribers.

3) Put low view channels like the shopping networks, religious channels, and some other channels that are in the expanded digital package between 100-399 here all in the SDV pool

4) If more room is needed (although I highly doubt it), simply start going down the list of channels by viewership and put the least viewed channels in SDV as well.


5) OPTIONAL: Make what channels were 2-99 analogs all ClearQAM for people with capable tv's to continue to watch them without an extra box. The horrid quality after compression is gonna kill any 'copyright' (Feh! *spits*) concerns anyway.


See? Really how hard is that? SIMPLE! 2 is pretty damn easy around here and most other places as TWC already has these channels simulcast digitally (I'm sure even you guys in Cleveland and Akron where they are ****ting on you even have the digital simulcasts in the system, TWC just doesn't have them in the channel tables. If anyone still has a Passport box around, go into the diag and do a manual tune and just scan all over. Sure you'll find your expanded basic lineup in digital glory). 5 would certainly be a nice bonus especially with proper PSIP data, but not holding my breath for that.



Now if you REALLY want a radical plan? Either use Docsis 3.0 with some major channel bonding of the whole 5-~800mhz spectrum and make the whole network including TV IP based. Or stretch out the fiber plant the very small distance to the residences and provide FTTH. Can't be THAT much distance to cover as Coax is pretty lossy anyways. The nodes aren't gonna be that far from your home and sometimes right around the corner.


----------



## nickdawg

I like 1 - 4. I don't like 5, but I like 1-4.


----------



## Vchat20

Just curious why you don't like 5? And I want an actual decent explanation. I am honestly curious here. Making more channels ClearQAM where possible should be a no brainer. Relieves the need for a box if you have a capable tv or other consumer owned device (like an HDHomerun for example) with a QAM tuner but no cablecard slot.


----------



## hookbill

Well like it or not I can still record channels 2 - 99. So if you have a Media Recorder computer or a TiVo but you live South of exAdelphia land you can't record it.


That's not fair and don't even get me started with you nickdawg. Your reason for why you don't want people who do have the equipment not to be able to is pure jealousy.


And not only should those channels be copy freely their HD counterparts should too.


----------



## Vchat20

Oh yes. I forgot his hatred of people finding a way to escape from TWC kidnapping and raping them with ever increasing fees. Right....


----------



## Dweezilz

figured I'd give an update about my "channel unavailable" issue I posted about a month ago since we are talking about SDV issues. Well, TWC has been out twice now (gonna be three soon) and the last time out, the tech actually knew something. He was actually pretty knowledgeable it seemed comparatively to the standard dolt they send out. He said my house was about the 10th he'd visited in the last few days with the same problem. He says it's indeed an SDV issue and they don't know exactly how to fix it now but they are taking down memory & QAM stats from the box on those channels and reporting them back. In some areas (ie my neighborhood) it has an issue placing the channel in the digital range it thinks it's should and so the channel comes up saying channel unavailable try again later. He says channels don't go in the same digital slot each time and that's where the issue is happening. If you go to other HD channels that are SDV that happen to be working at that moment and let them sit there for a while, then scroll channel by channel (ie not directly) it'll sometimes fixes the issue for a short time. Indeed he was right. Doesn't work all the time, but at least 50% of the time it does. Medina is another area around here that is having issues as well besides parts of Twinsburg.


At any rate, I sure hope they figure it out soon because it's infuriating to randomly not be able to tune in 1/3 of the new HD channels. He said if I called they'd credit me for channels I said were missing, but I'm not sure how they can do that since it's random from day to day. I can guarentee this is part of the reason they aren't adding new HD channels right now. Adding fuel to the fire if they did probably.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16840316
> 
> 
> figured I'd give an update about my "channel unavailable" issue I posted about a month ago since we are talking about SDV issues. Well, TWC has been out twice now (gonna be three soon) and the last time out, the tech actually knew something. He was actually pretty knowledgeable it seemed comparatively to the standard dolt they send out. He said my house was about the 10th he'd visited in the last few days with the same problem. He says it's indeed an SDV issue and they don't know exactly how to fix it now but they are taking down memory & QAM stats from the box on those channels and reporting them back. In some areas (ie my neighborhood) it has an issue placing the channel in the digital range it thinks it's should and so the channel comes up saying channel unavailable try again later. He says channels don't go in the same digital slot each time and that's where the issue is happening. If you go to other HD channels that are SDV that happen to be working at that moment and let them sit there for a while, then scroll channel by channel (ie not directly) it'll sometimes fixes the issue for a short time. Indeed he was right. Doesn't work all the time, but at least 50% of the time it does. Medina is another area around here that is having issues as well besides parts of Twinsburg.
> 
> 
> At any rate, I sure hope they figure it out soon because it's infuriating to randomly not be able to tune in 1/3 of the new HD channels. He said if I called they'd credit me for channels I said were missing, but I'm not sure how they can do that since it's random from day to day. I can guarentee this is part of the reason they aren't adding new HD channels right now. Adding fuel to the fire if they did probably.




The only time I've got a channel unavailable message was when there was a problem with the tuner adapter. I have tuned to a channel and got a gray screen, but the fix for that I've been told is to scroll two channels up and then back to your channel. Works every time. But those occasions when that has happened are rare.


As far as your refund goes, usually they toss 20 bucks your way as a credit to keep you happy. I remember Adelphia broke it down for me once and it was like .75 a day or some ridiculously low rate that didn't make it worth it for 1 channel.


And for what it's worth yesterday I had another flashing light on my TiVoHD tuner adapter. Unplugging the USB and plugging it back in fixed it. I had to wait a few minutes while it uploaded the SDV channels again. Fortunately the game wasn't beginning for another 10 minutes. TiVo owners note this time it flashed 6 times with a pause. The only time I can't seem to fix it is if I get the 8 flashes, that means it's bricked and you need a signal sent.


I think TiVo is doing something to make the boxes reboot, thus causing the tuner adapters to have issues. I can't prove this other then observing the one reboot day before yesterday, but I suspect it.


----------



## hbomber202020




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16840316
> 
> 
> At any rate, I sure hope they figure it out soon because it's infuriating to randomly not be able to tune in 1/3 of the new HD channels. He said if I called they'd credit me for channels I said were missing, but I'm not sure how they can do that since it's random from day to day. I can guarentee this is part of the reason they aren't adding new HD channels right now. Adding fuel to the fire if they did probably.



At least you have new HD channels


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16840316
> 
> 
> figured I'd give an update about my "channel unavailable" issue I posted about a month ago since we are talking about SDV issues.



I've had the same problem here ever since they went to SDV. I haven't bothered to call them - it's pretty obvious that it's a pervasive problem. I do hope they get it fixed, though - seems kinda silly to tell us that we have all these new channels when only a handful of them actually come through.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Gilliland* /forum/post/16845943
> 
> 
> I've had the same problem here ever since they went to SDV. I haven't bothered to call them - it's pretty obvious that it's a pervasive problem. I do hope they get it fixed, though - seems kinda silly to tell us that we have all these new channels when only a handful of them actually come through.



I'm not having this issue, really. Maybe it's because I don't watch all the new HD channels, but I certainly watch quite a few SDV channels.


All the MLB Extra Innings channels are in SDV. Problems? You bet, freeze ups and grey channels. But fixing can be done simply by changing the channel, wait a couple seconds and changing back. You're usually good to go at that point.


Last night on just about every MLB Extra Inning channel I went to I had to use this method to get a steady picture.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I'm not a cable sub, but I had an idea. For those of you sporadically losing SDV channels: What if you tuned into your favorite SDV channel and left it on 24/7 when you are not watching other channels (your cable box, not your TV)? I wonder if in some way that would make that channel more available until the cableco gets the bugs out of SDV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16845997
> 
> 
> I'm not a cable sub, but I had an idea. For those of you sporadically losing SDV channels: What if you tuned into your favorite SDV channel and left it on 24/7 when you are not watching other channels (your cable box, not your TV)? I wonder if in some way that would make that channel more available until the cableco gets the bugs out of SDV?



A couple of things will or could happen. Since I own a TiVo and never power off I'm a good person to answer.


I leave mine a lot on the MLB Extra Inning channels or CNN HD. Sometimes I'll come back to a gray screen. Sometimes it will still be showing programs. Sometimes I have a frozen picture.


Most of us have seen at one time or another if you leave your tv on an SDV channel a message pop up asking if you are still watching this channel. If not the message says, it may not be available and to push select to continue watching. I imagine when I'm sleeping that message pops up and of course I don't respond, hence the grey screen.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16846006
> 
> 
> A couple of things will or could happen. Since I own a TiVo and never power off I'm a good person to answer.
> 
> 
> I leave mine a lot on the MLB Extra Inning channels or CNN HD. Sometimes I'll come back to a gray screen. Sometimes it will still be showing programs. Sometimes I have a frozen picture.
> 
> 
> Most of us have seen at one time or another if you leave your tv on an SDV channel a message pop up asking if you are still watching this channel. If not the message says, it may not be available and to push select to continue watching. I imagine when I'm sleeping that message pops up and of course I don't respond, hence the grey screen.



MLB Extra innings channels might not be the best on to try this on because,I presume, they are not programmed 24/7. A similar thing happens with STO HD on Dish Network. Even though STO HD is 24/7 Dish currently only carries the games (and sometime misses a few when there are too many HD games. This is the satellite equivalent to SDV, only it is totally controlled from the "head end" (the uplink center) and not at the receiver. Once they shut off the feed at the uplink center a slide comes on saying "check back often to see if your team is playing in HD". If I happen to be near the DVR when the slide first pops on I can rewind the live buffer back into whatever was shown last up to an hour back. However if I try to rewind even one minute later the live buffer loses the game. The slide is coming from a different transponder and once the "mapping" changes it's the same as changing the channel (i.e. losing the live buffer).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/16846571
> 
> 
> MLB Extra innings channels might not be the best on to try this on because,I presume, they are not programmed 24/7.



Tis better to presume then to ASS U ME.

















OK here's on it works. When a broadcast of a live ball game ends a "Good Night" banner appears. Generally that will stay there about 15 minutes then either the schedule for the rest of the games or the next days game schedule appears. It doesn't have taped broadcast or anything like that just the banner.


MLB Extra Innings is the perfect thing to experiment with SDV. I'd say 50% of the time I return to a gray screen, the other 50% I will see the banner. If I have the gray screen I simply channel up and channel down and the banner will appear IF they are broadcasting a banner at that time. Sometimes they will not show a banner at all.


Remember when I said I never saw the "This channel is not available" message except when I had a problem with the tuner adapter? This morning no tuner adapter problem but no sound on CNN. I channeled up then down and I saw the message saying try later. I simply hit enter and went to my previous channel again and then back to CNN and it is still on as I type this.


----------



## Valnar

For those in North Royalton or other WOW areas, I started receiving some new digital channels. They are pretty much duplicates of some of the analog cable channels, like TNT, MTV, etc. I use SageTV though and want to incorporate these channels into my EPG, but I don't know their "official" station identity.


This is as much a Sage/EPG question as a WOW question, so I'm starting here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Valnar* /forum/post/16850291
> 
> 
> For those in North Royalton or other WOW areas, I started receiving some new digital channels . They are pretty much duplicates of some of the analog cable channels, like TNT, MTV, etc. I use SageTV though and want to incorporate these channels into my EPG, but I don't know their "official" station identity.
> 
> 
> This is as much a Sage/EPG question as a WOW question, so I'm starting here.



Check that out WOW even gives out QAM listings! See how TW likes to keep your nuts in a vice? I wish we had WOW and they don't have SDV yet either. I think we do have more HD. When it works.


----------



## Sigwolf

As of 8:00PM Tuesday 8/21, my guide for SYFY and SYFYHD is completely blank for the rest of next week. Every other channel is fine, and multiple resets have had no effect. I am actually watching two shows on that stupidly renamed channel (Warehouse 13 and Eureka), and I'm getting a little worried. I kept thinking it would fix itself, but it has been blank since Tuesday the 21st first became available on the guide this past Wednesday and now it is only 2 days away.


Does anyone else have guide data after Tuesday for SYFY?


(I'm in Avon)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/16851516
> 
> 
> As of 8:00PM Tuesday 8/21, my guide for SYFY and SYFYHD is completely blank for the rest of next week. Every other channel is fine, and multiple resets have had no effect. I am actually watching two shows on that stupidly renamed channel (Warehouse 13 and Eureka), and I'm getting a little worried. I kept thinking it would fix itself, but it has been blank since Tuesday the 21st first became available on the guide this past Wednesday and now it is only 2 days away.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have guide data after Tuesday for SYFY?
> 
> 
> (I'm in Avon)



Nope, not on the SA 8300 no guide data for SciFi HD.


----------



## nickdawg

I have guide data on SCIFI and SCIFI HD.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16852370
> 
> 
> I have guide data on SCIFI and SCIFI HD.



As do I right now. Just for clarification, do you have it for after Tuesday at 8PM?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/16852802
> 
> 
> As do I right now. Just for clarification, do you have it for after Tuesday at 8PM?



Yes. I was able to see that Warehouse 13, Eureka and ECW are on Tuesday night.


----------



## hookbill

I believe it has been established that SARA and Navigator have different guides.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hbomber202020* /forum/post/16843122
> 
> 
> At least you have new HD channels



doesn't help much if I can't tune them in...










As a side note, I'm not sure why but this weekend seemed to be much better in regards to this SDV issue. I only got the channel unavailable message once on Friday night and after I went to another channel and went back it seemed much better. Hope this continues!! Maybe they fixed it...we'll see tonight.


----------



## hookbill

More SDV for all you folks who just can't get enough!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16857219
> 
> 
> More SDV for all you folks who just can't get enough!



OH HELL NO!!!!




























This SDV s--t is spreading like a virus. That looks like almost all the Digital Tier channels. What's next, Basic Tier like CNN, USA, F/X? I hope not. Soon we'll have 250+ cable channels that cost a $$$load of money and only work when THEY want to.


----------



## shooter21198

SDV...

so does this mean new HD channels in September


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16860141
> 
> 
> SDV...
> 
> so does this mean new HD channels in September



Possibly. For more info go to Wikipedia and do a search.


----------



## nickdawg

Well, I just connected a new Zenith DTV converter box today. So far I am more impressed with this box than I ever have been with TWC.


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16860206
> 
> 
> Well, I just connected a new Zenith DTV converter box today. So far I am more impressed with this box than I ever have been with TWC.



Not bad for ten bucks! (Plus 40% tax, of course.







)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16858584
> 
> 
> OH HELL NO!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This SDV s--t is spreading like a virus. That looks like almost all the Digital Tier channels. What's next, Basic Tier like CNN, USA, F/X? I hope not. Soon we'll have 250+ cable channels that cost a $$$load of money and only work when THEY want to.



What surprised me was that they are taking Premium channels, like Starz HD and putting that on SDV. Also they are moving some of Showtime and HBO lineup to SDV.


I noticed that with Showtime and HBO they did not include the main channels in SDV and that has to make sense. Lots of people out there with cable cards in their sets would be p.o.'d losing the top dogs of the premium groups. Putting Starz HD on there however is a bold move. Specially since the technology is faulty, at best.


As far as basic tier channels as everyone is well aware they already have their HD counterparts on SDV.


I would presume (I so much like that word now) that the additional channels being added to SDV are to provide more bandwith for additional HD. Which will also now be on SDV from this point on as well.


Once again it all boils down to those stupid analog channels. If we didn't have those we would have no need for SDV, tuner adapters, bad signals etc.


----------



## bassguitarman

Still missing the SyFy guide data last night

I wonder if the name change has messed it up

Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16861131
> 
> 
> Still missing the SyFy guide data last night
> 
> I wonder if the name change has messed it up
> 
> Dave



What name change are you talking about?


Even if there was a name change that should have been caught by whomever TW farms out their guide data to.


I just checked the 8300 and it has guide data on SciFi both analog and HD. Are you saying you don't have guide data now?


----------



## bassguitarman

Didnt have the guide data last night

Will check again tonite


----------



## Norm78




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16860206
> 
> 
> Well, I just connected a new Zenith DTV converter box today. So far I am more impressed with this box than I ever have been with TWC.



Where did you find one of those? I've been looking everywhere for one, they get very good reviews.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/16862642
> 
> 
> Where did you find one of those? I've been looking everywhere for one, they get very good reviews.



Sears and Kmart supposedly have the Zenith DTT901 converter box.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/16862642
> 
> 
> Where did you find one of those? I've been looking everywhere for one, they get very good reviews.



I went to the Sears in Akron Ohio and they had a few of them left. I'd look at Sears or Kmart. If you don't have a coupon, you could order at sears.com.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16860712
> 
> 
> What surprised me was that they are taking Premium channels, like Starz HD and putting that on SDV. Also they are moving some of Showtime and HBO lineup to SDV.
> 
> 
> I noticed that with Showtime and HBO they did not include the main channels in SDV and that has to make sense. Lots of people out there with cable cards in their sets would be p.o.'d losing the top dogs of the premium groups. Putting Starz HD on there however is a bold move. Specially since the technology is faulty, at best.
> 
> 
> As far as basic tier channels as everyone is well aware they already have their HD counterparts on SDV.
> 
> 
> I would presume (I so much like that word now) that the additional channels being added to SDV are to provide more bandwith for additional HD. Which will also now be on SDV from this point on as well.
> 
> 
> Once again it all boils down to those stupid analog channels. If we didn't have those we would have no need for SDV, tuner adapters, bad signals etc.



I didn't even see those listed. That pisses me off even more that TWC is putting channels that cost $12 a month on *ASS*DV. Sorry, you cannot watch the channels you pay $12 for anymore. Now you can only watch them when WE tell you! Because We Think Like You Think








. And "We" Think you like to have your movie interrupted for one minute every half hour. That's OK, it's not the important part. And if you don't TOO BAD!!! We're installing our ASSDV system whether you like it or not and we're making you pay extra for channels that don't always work.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16861246
> 
> 
> What name change are you talking about?
> 
> 
> Even if there was a name change that should have been caught by whomever TW farms out their guide data to.
> 
> 
> I just checked the 8300 and it has guide data on SciFi both analog and HD. Are you saying you don't have guide data now?



The station changed it's name from SciFi to Syfy on the 7th. The guide data reflected that change at that time, so it should not be related to the problems now... the change was already made and reflected.


I still have no guide data for either the HD or SD feeds from 8PM tonight through the end of the week. Not pleased...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/16864536
> 
> 
> The station changed it's name from SciFi to Syfy on the 7th. The guide data reflected that change at that time, so it should not be related to the problems now... the change was already made and reflected.
> 
> 
> I still have no guide data for either the HD or SD feeds from 8PM tonight through the end of the week. Not pleased...



To the best of my knowledge there is 2 guides. Possibly 3 for the moto boxes. If I have data and nickdawg has data you should have data too unless you have the moto box.


This is very strange.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16864658
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge there is 2 guides. Possibly 3 for the moto boxes. If I have data and nickdawg has data you should have data too unless you have the moto box.
> 
> 
> This is very strange.



Nope, still nothing on either of mine. I have SARA with one 8300HD and one 8300HDC.


----------



## MediaObsessions

Has anyone with TWC SDV (using a TiVo or 8300 or otherwise) experienced the following?


You tune to a SDV channel.

You cross your fingers and pray that it works.

The channel tunes in and you rejoice.

After approx. 5 seconds, the channel is no longer available. Pressing "select" does not work.


FWIW I have a TiVo S3, TA, 2 S-Cards, in North Canton.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/16865695
> 
> 
> Has anyone with TWC SDV (using a TiVo or 8300 or otherwise) experienced the following?



Happens more than I'd like on my Tivo HD...


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16862063
> 
> 
> Didnt have the guide data last night
> 
> Will check again tonite



I do not have guide data for Sci-Fi HD starting last night (Tuesday) and nothing for an entire week. Just says unavailable. It was there Monday night and until 7:00 PM Tuesday. Starting at 8 PM last night it shows not available. Weird, and pisses me off, I couldn't record Warehouse 13.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/16865695
> 
> 
> Has anyone with TWC SDV (using a TiVo or 8300 or otherwise) experienced the following?
> 
> 
> You tune to a SDV channel.
> 
> You cross your fingers and pray that it works.
> 
> The channel tunes in and you rejoice.
> 
> After approx. 5 seconds, the channel is no longer available. Pressing "select" does not work.
> 
> 
> FWIW I have a TiVo S3, TA, 2 S-Cards, in North Canton.



Yes, it's happening on every friggen SDV channel that I tuned in this morning. This is the first time I've really experienced it, every other time I could just channel up and back down.


Checked tuner adapter on diagnostic page and it is working just fine. This blows, I was so looking forward to watching Quick Pitch this morning in HD to see the recap of how the Dodgers blew the Reds away last night 12-3.


Fortunately MLBnet is still available in SD so I guess it hasn't been set up on SDV just yet.


This just sucks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/16867025
> 
> 
> I do not have guide data for Sci-Fi HD starting last night (Tuesday) and nothing for an entire week. Just says unavailable. It was there Monday night and until 7:00 PM Tuesday. Starting at 8 PM last night it shows not available. Weird, and pisses me off, I couldn't record Warehouse 13.



Let me ask you guys something. *What are you going to do about it?*


Seriously. Are you going to just sit in the forum and gripe or are one of you gonna get a pair, drive down to your local TW office and tell them there is no guide data. Make them turn the TV on and show them. I'm telling you when I did that they wern't even aware there was a problem.


I have guide data I have no idea why you guys don't. So one of you take some action because sitting on your hands isn't going to get sh!t accomplished if they don't know there is a problem.


----------



## bassguitarman

Well still no syfy guide data for me

Former Adelphia

8300HD, box rebooted 3 times

I guess I'll email them today since I dont have the time to sit on phone for 2 hours

oh yeh I recorded Warehouse 13 manually, what a concept


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/16867445
> 
> 
> Well still no syfy guide data for me
> 
> Former Adelphia
> 
> 8300HD, box rebooted 3 times
> 
> I guess I'll email them today since I dont have the time to sit on phone for 2 hours
> 
> oh yeh I recorded Warehouse 13 manually, what a concept



Well, that's better then doing nothing. TiVo recorded Warehouse 13 just fine for me, it too has data.


I really don't understand how I can have data and you guys don't. It's got to be something coming out of the head end.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16854699
> 
> 
> doesn't help much if I can't tune them in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a side note, I'm not sure why but this weekend seemed to be much better in regards to this SDV issue. I only got the channel unavailable message once on Friday night and after I went to another channel and went back it seemed much better. Hope this continues!! Maybe they fixed it...we'll see tonight.



Update - Looks like (fingers & toes crossed) TWC might have fixed the issue in my development as all channels have been available every night since Friday. Haven't seen the channel unavailable on Travel or AP which seemed to always be unavailable at night. I had placed a call last Tuesday indicating it was still a big issue and they said they would escalate the issue up and see what they could do. Hopefully they fixed it and it's not just a temp thing. I'll report back if the issue happens again, but so far so good.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/16867644
> 
> 
> Update - Looks like (fingers & toes crossed) TWC might have fixed the issue in my development as all channels have been available every night since Friday. Haven't seen the channel unavailable on Travel or AP which seemed to always be unavailable at night. I had placed a call last Tuesday indicating it was still a big issue and they said they would escalate the issue up and see what they could do. Hopefully they fixed it and it's not just a temp thing. I'll report back if the issue happens again, but so far so good.



Thanks, now apparently it's my issue.


----------



## smoti17

Since the start of the SDV fiasco, has anyone else lost the ability to receive closed captions on any channels ? BBC America/225 appears to be on SDV, and since early June I've stopped being able to get captions on this. After doing the rounds with the BBC not getting back to me about whether they were still captioning, and TWCNEO claiming that they had stopped, I've confirmed on a BBC America viewer forum that people in other cable areas and on DirecTV can still get BBC/A captions okay.


As I didn't watch too closely which channels were captioning before SDV, I'm not sure if this is a channel-specific problem - certainly captions still work for all the non-SDV channels


Nor is this an equipment issue - neither my HD Tivo nor my SA3250HD get the captions.


I've asked them to look into and fix this, but, well, here we go again...

Sure hope I don't have to remind Mr Fry of FCC regulation 47 C.F.R. § 79.1 (c).


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16867714
> 
> 
> Since the start of the SDV fiasco, has anyone else lost the ability to receive closed captions on any channels ? BBC America/225 appears to be on SDV, and since early June I've stopped being able to get captions on this. After doing the rounds with the BBC not getting back to me about whether they were still captioning, and TWCNEO claiming that they had stopped, I've confirmed on a BBC America viewer forum that people in other cable areas and on DirecTV can still get BBC/A captions okay.
> 
> 
> As I didn't watch too closely which channels were captioning before SDV, I'm not sure if this is a channel-specific problem - certainly captions still work for all the non-SDV channels
> 
> 
> Nor is this an equipment issue - neither my HD Tivo nor my SA3250HD get the captions.
> 
> 
> I've asked them to look into and fix this, but, well, here we go again...
> 
> Sure hope I don't have to remind Mr Fry of FCC regulation 47 C.F.R. § 79.1 (c).



I live in Amherst, part of Time Warner's Elyria/Mentor area of Northeast Ohio, we do not have SDV yet. I watch Torchwood on BBC America last night with closed captions. Time Warner is lying to you.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16867827
> 
> 
> I live in Amherst, part of Time Warner's Elyria/Mentor area of Northeast Ohio, we do not have SDV yet. I watch Torchwood on BBC America last night with closed captions. *Time Warner is lying to you*.



























Ya think????


----------



## hookbill

Going on 5 hours now, and I sent an email to TW about the SDV channels not appearing. They've set someone to come out to my house this afternoon. I've also contacted my person at head end and she is trying to work on it too.


I have no SDV stations at all on neither TiVo or SA 8300. I just get a message that says the same on both, channel is not available please try again later. Um, no because your technology is messed up doesn't mean I sit on my hands and do nothing about it.


Somebody is going to fix this today, I guarantee it. I have a Dodger game later on tonight to watch at 10:00 pm. I also have shows scheduled to record.


----------



## hookbill

Talk to my contact at TW. We went through diagnostic screens on both the SA 8300 and TiVo. Everything looks normal. She sent a tech out to the hub where I think the real problem is and a tech is coming to my house as well.


I asked her if she thought it was some type of outage, since you guys have reported this stuff to me. She said they are not hearing anything from anybody.


See the problem is customer service. If you call customer service they will send you a hit and send a tech out and that's that. I doubt there is any logging about SDV problems at all, hence she doesn't "hear" about it. So even if you call it in I doubt it would do good. Probably the way Dweezilz's problem got fixed was somebody got persistent with them. I'll bet a thousand bucks this problem is at the hub. Heck I was watching SDV at 1:15 am this morning, 5 hours later no SDV.


Now I wait on this tech. If he's late, that's another 20.00 credit I'll take.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16868952
> 
> 
> Going on 5 hours now, and I sent an email to TW about the SDV channels not appearing. They've set someone to come out to my house this afternoon. I've also contacted my person at head end and she is trying to work on it too.
> 
> 
> I have no SDV stations at all on neither TiVo or SA 8300. I just get a message that says the same on both, channel is not available please try again later. Um, no because your technology is messed up doesn't mean I sit on my hands and do nothing about it.
> 
> 
> Somebody is going to fix this today, I guarantee it. I have a Dodger game later on tonight to watch at 10:00 pm. I also have shows scheduled to record.



Maybe we are lucky in the Elyria/Mentor are not to have SDV.

Sounds like a disease anyway.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16869737
> 
> 
> Maybe we are lucky in the Elyria/Mentor are not to have SDV.
> 
> Sounds like a disease anyway.



It's a constant headache. I can't believe other TiVo people say they don't mind SDV.


Maybe it's just because we have this old system that Adelphia gave TW that's causing issues. I don't know, all I know is right now I'm not happy about it.


Not to mention the degradation in pq, constant break ups, sound drop offs. No, we were better off without it.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16869737
> 
> 
> Maybe we are lucky in the Elyria/Mentor are not to have SDV.
> 
> Sounds like a disease anyway.



I had my wife call to see about an "adjustment" to my bill in Mentor until our lineup is brought up to the level of the mojority of the NEO TWC lineups. She was told we are getting everything we are suppose to by the CSR. After seeing all the most recent SDV problems I too feel we may be better off.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

They found my problem, it's at the hub so they are calling off the technician. I asked eta for repair and I didn't get one. I may not have all channels available tonight after all.







Or it could get fixed anytime.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16867308
> 
> 
> Yes, it's happening on every friggen SDV channel that I tuned in this morning. This is the first time I've really experienced it, every other time I could just channel up and back down.
> 
> 
> Checked tuner adapter on diagnostic page and it is working just fine. This blows, I was so looking forward to watching Quick Pitch this morning in HD to see the recap of how the Dodgers blew the Reds away last night 12-3.
> 
> 
> Fortunately MLBnet is still available in SD so I guess it hasn't been set up on SDV just yet.
> 
> 
> This just sucks.



I know you have the letter so you probably already know, but MLB will be going SDV soon. The SD channel. That *really* sucks!







At least now we have the SD channels to use if the HD channels don't work.


----------



## Vchat20

Anyone having troubles with the SDV channels today? It's usually just fine around here but today every channel is dead. I've went through all the known SDV channels and I am getting the retarded unavailable message. This means I have had to fall back to the SD channels for STO and USA just to watch SOMETHING. x.x


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16871548
> 
> 
> Anyone having troubles with the SDV channels today? It's usually just fine around here but today every channel is dead. I've went through all the known SDV channels and I am getting the retarded unavailable message. This means I have had to fall back to the SD channels for STO and USA just to watch SOMETHING. x.x



Am I on your ignore list? I gave detailed posts of what's going on. There is a problem at the hub in my area. I don't know what's going on in your area but I would suggest you call TW and let them know you have an issue. I'm not getting any SDV either.


SDV sucks.


----------



## Vchat20

Sorry, I haven't been keeping a real close read on this thread and from the way I was reading you guys were still on the Guide data issue. I guess I will have to call them up if it's more widespread.


----------



## MediaObsessions

I'm not sure if this helps anyone, but I've been digging around in the TA diagnostics. I'm on a TiVo, but maybe this stuff is available to you 8300 guys too.


Navigate to Messages & Settings-->Account & System Information-->Tuning Adapter-->Tuning Adapter Diagnostics


Look for a menu called Tuning Resolver. Mine was on page 2. Anyways, after clicking Next Page in this menu, I found some headings called "Session Info LTS0" and "Session Info LTS1." Assuming one for each of my S-cards.


Each heading has:

Request Time (time you successfully tuned the channel)

Chan/Src/CA (the channel you tuned/?/?)

LastErr (why it failed last time)

LastErrTime (the time it failed)


I previously posted about successfully tuning, then having the screen go blank after 5 seconds. It is happening a lot today. After each time, this menu states LastErr: ChanNotAvail.


My conclusion? TWC's faulty SDV equipment is tuning the channel for five seconds, then telling my TA that the channel is not available. I'm also wondering if anyone else is getting other errors. By the way, I don't seem to be having complete SDV outages as some of you others have reported. Just tuning them in initially, at random times.


----------



## Vchat20

Well, I got through to a tech who was actually on the ball. Their IVR system had areas like yours listed hook as being a known outage and I told the tech we were also effected here and he'd escalate the problem and note our area in the report as well.


So cross fingers something gets done in short order. Kinda weird though it's effecting us as well. Shouldn't be doing that for SDV unless it's some other problem upstream.


----------



## hookbill

Message at TW's number says outages in Bainbridge, PT Clinton & surrounding areas.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. I got that as well. As far as I know we aren't considered a 'surrounding area' to Bainbridge. Checking google maps we are about 30 miles from you straight down Route 422. And Port Clinton is on the opposite side of the state and really in the 'Western Ohio' TWC footprint (unless they changed it over the past 2-3 years since I was up there on vacation).


----------



## hookbill

They've pulled the message but I still don't have SDV channels. Guess no baseball for me tonight. Heck I can't even get the Tribe.


----------



## Vchat20

I just checked and STOHD is back up for me here (though you aren't missing much. Cleveland gave up 2 3-run homers and then some to Toronto). Maybe try rebooting your TA's if it continues? *shrug* I dunno how the Tivo/TA diagnostic procedure goes.


----------



## hookbill

I will check the SA8300 in a few minutes. Hopefully it will be on up there and i'll reboot the tivos if necessary.


----------



## hookbill

Now there is a message saying that "If you are calling about an HD channel and getting an error message, we are aware of it and are working on resolving." They also say "this problem is intermittent" and then advise you to watch on Standard Definition.


Ummm, hello TW it's not just HD channels that are the problem. It's all of SDV.


I think. I haven't tried any of the SD MLB Extra Innings channels. hmmm....


BTW it's free preview week on MLB Extra Innings. It's free if you can get it that is.


Edit: Nope, can't get the SD channel either.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16872493
> 
> 
> Now there is a message saying that "If you are calling about an HD channel and getting an error message, we are aware of it and are working on resolving." They also say "this problem is intermittent" and then advise you to watch on Standard Definition.
> 
> 
> Ummm, hello TW it's not just HD channels that are the problem. It's all of SDV.
> 
> 
> I think. I haven't tried any of the SD MLB Extra Innings channels. hmmm....
> 
> 
> BTW it's free preview week on MLB Extra Innings. It's free if you can get it that is.
> 
> 
> Edit: Nope, can't get the SD channel either.



How will their "problem solving" method work once they put digital basic and expanded basic channels on SDV? Soon there will be no "standard definition" to watch. This company keeps becoming a bigger joke every day. I really miss the days of not being able to watch HD channels because they didn't exist.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16867322
> 
> 
> Let me ask you guys something. *What are you going to do about it?*
> 
> 
> Seriously. Are you going to just sit in the forum and gripe or are one of you gonna get a pair, drive down to your local TW office and tell them there is no guide data. Make them turn the TV on and show them. I'm telling you when I did that they wern't even aware there was a problem.
> 
> 
> I have guide data I have no idea why you guys don't. So one of you take some action because sitting on your hands isn't going to get sh!t accomplished if they don't know there is a problem.



I called them, they said they were aware of the problem and it would be fixed soon.


As of this morning, the guide data is back.


----------



## bassguitarman

My guide data was back for SyFy last night.

The response from TWC technician was that they refreshed that data.


or should that be GYde data

Dave


----------



## k2rj

I checked my SyFy data last night and it went out a week.


I have to say that I have seen no real problems with SDV in Solon on my 8300HD. I've never seen the "unavailable" message and the only difference I notice is a half-second or so more delay in getting the picture. Last weekend I did notice an intermittent break-up on SyFy-HD so I finished watching on the SD channel. But I can't really say if that had anything to do with SDV... I've missed no recordings on SyFy, TNT, USA (all HD) or BBC-America. Maybe I'm just lucky?


----------



## hookbill

First, everything is well over here in hookbill land. I had to reboot the SA 8300 and have a hit sent out to my TiVo's because STO was still giving me a bad time but that is now resolved.


For those of you who care, my broiler died in my oven last night. Just slightly off topic but hey, if you're going to have a bad night....


And wouldn't you know that the Dodger game I wanted to watch was on HD so I missed that, and also miss Manny being Manny hitting a pinch hit grand slam home run which won the game.


Now that I'm done with all the BS you could care less about, lets talk about something you guys do care about. I mentioned in my conversation with my contact at TW that SDV is going over about as well as hearing about another company being shut down and gee wouldn't it be great to get rid of analog all together then there wouldn't be a need for SDV. She agreed, but said too many analog customers. I said OK, then hand out boxes. Cost, she said, not feasible. I said just limit the number of channels they receive. She said that wouldn't work.


And the reason it wouldn't work is something we never think about. When you stay in a hotel you usually don't get any premium channels. Well sometimes HBO I've seen but that's about it. There are no boxes. They have those things hooked up right to the cable. And that's the problem. All the hotels have their room televisions hooked up to analog cable.


So I don't know if we will ever see the end of analog cable.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16874054
> 
> 
> 
> And the reason it wouldn't work is something we never think about. When you stay in a hotel you usually don't get any premium channels. Well sometimes HBO I've seen but that's about it. There are no boxes. They have those things hooked up right to the cable. And that's the problem. All the hotels have their room televisions hooked up to analog cable.
> 
> 
> So I don't know if we will ever see the end of analog cable.



Hook,


Will new TVs even come with analog tuners now that we have changed over to digital? If newer TVs only come with digital tuners in the future cable companies will need to provide a digital transmission to accomodate hotels. This will take a few years though for hotels to upgrade their rooms as needed. Would a digital transmission of these channels save any bandwidth?


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/16874335
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> Will new TVs even come with analog tuners now that we have changed over to digital? If newer TVs only come with digital tuners in the future cable companies will need to provide a digital transmission to accomodate hotels. This will take a few years though for hotels to upgrade their rooms as needed. Would a digital transmission of these channels save any bandwidth?
> 
> 
> Ray



Nice theory but the problem is that these televisions still require a box for digital cable. Remember, the new televisions do not have cable cards. And so long as TW requires a cable box for digital television it's a problem.


Another thing too many hotels are now going to flat screens, hooking them right up to the wall and having the cable come directly from the wall so you don't even see it. Where would you put the box? Hotels don't want the box...or the expense.


----------



## smoti17

My caption problem got resolved, thanks again for those who confirmed this was a problem specific to me and not BBC America. TWC sent hits to my kit, this restored captions for this channel on both boxes after reboots. So it is yet another cablecard/SDV snafu, who knows exactly what went wrong where, but I must say it only affecting captions on only one channel is a new variant of this flakiness to me...


(Eve Myles is hot and I can even understand her Welsh accent now 


On the "hotel" justification for keeping the analog channels, this is pretty weak:

- I've stayed in hotels where they have digital TVs tuning into clear digital cable

(e.g. Comcast in San Mateo CA)

- I've stayed in hotels where digital satellite and terrestrial channels are converted

to analog RF to feed the in-room TVs (mostly in Europe)

- I've stayed in hotels where they have a shiny new HDTV-capable flat screen in every

room, on which they have carefully blocked off every HD input on so they can lock

it into a crappy RF-fed SDTV signal from a pay-TV box bolted onto the back (sigh)

All these are possible - TWC's excuses for not becoming part of the 21st century just don't stack up...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16874374
> 
> 
> Another thing too many hotels are now going to flat screens, hooking them right up to the wall and having the cable come directly from the wall so you don't even see it. Where would you put the box? Hotels don't want the box...or the expense.



It is a conundrum. There might be some solutions down the road, after Tru2Way becomes a mature product, but then existing hotels that have just purchased their flat screens will want to get their full depreciation before reinvesting. And even in a Tru2Way environment, those hotels and MDUs will have to have a squeaky clean internal system, without rougue devices injecting interference in the upstream return path.


There is also a movement to produce less expensive QAM encoder/modulator combinations for this market. Place a stack of demods/decoders/QAM remods in the hotel's comm room and away you go, but this is still an emerging technology for in-house bulk DTV redistribution.


In short, I don't see an analog sunset for some time yet.


One thing that I actually like about analog tv is that it doesn't have any baggage. The tv set doesn't care about IPs, MPEG PIDs, PCR jitter, etc. Feed it some video with sync pulses and it just works every time. There's a subtle elegance to that legacy system of broadcasting.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16877096
> 
> 
> My caption problem got resolved, thanks again for those who confirmed this was a problem specific to me and not BBC America. TWC sent hits to my kit, this restored captions for this channel on both boxes after reboots. So it is yet another cablecard/SDV snafu, who knows exactly what went wrong where, but I must say it only affecting captions on only one channel is a new variant of this flakiness to me...
> 
> 
> (Eve Myles is hot and I can even understand her Welsh accent now
> 
> 
> On the "hotel" justification for keeping the analog channels, this is pretty weak:
> 
> - I've stayed in hotels where they have digital TVs tuning into clear digital cable
> 
> (e.g. Comcast in San Mateo CA)
> 
> - I've stayed in hotels where digital satellite and terrestrial channels are converted
> 
> to analog RF to feed the in-room TVs (mostly in Europe)
> 
> - I've stayed in hotels where they have a shiny new HDTV-capable flat screen in every
> 
> room, on which they have carefully blocked off every HD input on so they can lock
> 
> it into a crappy RF-fed SDTV signal from a pay-TV box bolted onto the back (sigh)
> 
> All these are possible - TWC's excuses for not becoming part of the 21st century just don't stack up...



You're pointing the finger at TW but really and if I've said this once I've said it a million times all this mess is not TW's fault.


Adelphia is truly the one to blame. They took a bunch of mom and pop cable companies and never took the time to make them truly one company. When TW *and* Comcast bought Adelphia, they agreed to split certain territories to make it one. So in fact TW not only inherited Adelphia's mess, they inherited Comcast too.


Now this kind of mess takes time to fix. And to be fair TW has made some good strides in trying to fix this but the failure to launch Navigator area wide surely is a setback. Until everyone is on one firmware they can't really have one system area wide.


To the best of my knowledge all channels are now aligned. I think, if they arn't then that's part of the problem right there. Tru2Way is what we need to clean this mess up.


Ha Ha, I just read on my blackberry that Cathode Kid responded on this issue as well and he mentions Tru2Way. And he's right it's going to take time to put all this stuff together. I see what he's saying about analog too, that I don't necessarily agree with, yes it's simple but the pq of analog, at least as far as TW is concerned is very bad.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16877149
> 
> 
> One thing that I actually like about analog tv is that it doesn't have any baggage. The tv set doesn't care about IPs, MPEG PIDs, PCR jitter, etc. Feed it some video with sync pulses and it just works every time. There's a subtle elegance to that legacy system of broadcasting.



I agree with you 100% on this.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/16877096
> 
> 
> On the "hotel" justification for keeping the analog channels, this is pretty weak:
> 
> - I've stayed in hotels where they have digital TVs tuning into clear digital cable
> 
> (e.g. Comcast in San Mateo CA)
> 
> - I've stayed in hotels where digital satellite and terrestrial channels are converted
> 
> to analog RF to feed the in-room TVs (mostly in Europe)
> 
> - I've stayed in hotels where they have a shiny new HDTV-capable flat screen in every
> 
> room, on which they have carefully blocked off every HD input on so they can lock
> 
> it into a crappy RF-fed SDTV signal from a pay-TV box bolted onto the back (sigh)
> 
> All these are possible - TWC's excuses for not becoming part of the 21st century just don't stack up...



smoti, first of all nobody said that these are "TWC's excuses." These are industry-wide issues. And neither Hookbill nor I are speaking on TW's behalf; this is merely food for thought. And there's still a very large universe of cable-ready analog-only sets in consumers' homes.


Second, you proved the point yourself when you mentioned the HD sets with all of the HD inputs blocked off. There's a good technical reason why they had to resort to that box that's bolted onto the set. It's hardly an ideal solution and one that the hospitality industry would like to move away from.


Third, at that hotel where you were watching clear-QAM cable channels - I'm betting that all of the HD channels were broadcasters, which are typically carried in the clear natively.


Don't be so quick to judge, smoti. All of these issues are being worked on by engineers with very sharp pencils. Which is why they need those pocket protectors, after all.


----------



## nickdawg

I have to call the biggest bull s--t ever on the TWC contact about analog. There is NO EXCUSE. If the government could get people who use free OTA TV to purchase equipment to keep getting those signals, there is NO REASON, NO REASON why TWC CANNOT make people who PAY for the PRIVILEGE to watch cable get a cable box. Don't give me any of those LIES or EXCUSES that "people don't like cable boxes" or "they don't want extra equipment". F--K that. If they did away with analog, everyone wouldn't need a box because every channel would be a real, linear channel again and the cable card system could be completely utilized. New TVs could come standard with cable card slots and the TV that used to have cable w/o the box could have a cable card.


TWC is a joke. They're full of crap. All they ever have is an excuse or a lie for something simple and easy to fix. They just don't want to do it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16877149
> 
> 
> One thing that I actually like about analog tv is that it doesn't have any baggage. The tv set doesn't care about IPs, MPEG PIDs, PCR jitter, etc. Feed it some video with sync pulses and it just works every time. There's a subtle elegance to that legacy system of broadcasting.



I agree. I'd rather have the old analog only TWC box from the 90s. At least that thing always worked and did not need to be rebooted. This new technology is garbage and it is not getting any better. Even the simpler technology like OTA DTV works better than cable.


Apparently there was an SDV outage yesterday. I had no clue as I have not watched SDV in several days. In fact yesterday I was watching the President followed by two crime dramas on CBS, through OTA on WOIO. Not one problem at all. And this was on a converter box that cost me $10 connected to a 7 year old Sonny CRT.


TWC is on its way out of the Dawg house. I'm finding it harder to justify paying close to $110 a month for sub par service that is trumped by a free converter box and a set of rabbit ears.


----------



## hookbill

That was a well thought out counterpoint nickdawg.










If you do decide to go OTA please leave your key at the forum door.


----------



## hookbill

Doe anyone know why on the guide for the SA 8300 (SARA) channel 404 is listed as CBSHD instead of WOIOHD?


----------



## nickdawg

Because 404 is CBS in high definition?


----------



## ErieMarty

has anyone noticed that the picture quality of the game in Toronto have been outstanding.


not sure if they have better Camera's up in Toronto or better lighting since they play inside a Dome...but the Quality and sharpness of the HD picture has been better then what I remember seeing while watching indians games.


Maybe TW did something to make quality of picture better or ..my Eyes are getting better with age..lol


just wondered if anyone else noticed it..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16878072
> 
> 
> Because 404 is CBS in high definition?



Actuallyi think I may have figured it out. Over in the Erie area is your locals from Cleveland? Maybe they have a different source for CBS. Because all the other stations in HD have their call letters next to them.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16878131
> 
> 
> Actuallyi think I may have figured it out. Over in the Erie area is your locals from Cleveland? Maybe they have a different source for CBS. Because all the other stations in HD have their call letters next to them.



Here we have:


WKYCHD

WOIOHD

WEWHD

WUABHD

WBNXHD

WJWHD

WNEOHD

WVIZHD


That's the standard NE Ohio HD lineup. I think Erie has different stations on theirs. Maybe someone was lazy during the channel change and decided to generically tag some of the channels. That's why we have stuff like SCIFI HD labeled as "SCIFH" in the guide.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16877608
> 
> 
> If they did away with analog, everyone wouldn't need a box because every channel would be a real, linear channel again and the cable card system could be completely utilized.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16877642
> 
> 
> I agree. I'd rather have the old analog only TWC box from the 90s. At least that thing always worked and did not need to be rebooted. This new technology is garbage and it is not getting any better.



Now you're just trying to confuse me...


----------



## hookbill

Just like the other morning when I woke up all the SDV channels are down! Have left message with my contact at TW.


If you're new and don't know what to check look at channel 435. If you get a message saying "channel not available you are affected and should report it to TWC.


Edit: Appears that everything is back up a few minutes later. Man, SDV sure does suck.


----------



## hookbill

I'm now understand the frustration people were having with SDV. Several times this morning I've seen the channels clicked off and got the message that the channel is not available. Right now they are currently not working.


Totally unacceptable, I've placed a call in. This is horrible service.


----------



## Ben Music

Just a note of interest. The TWC Elyria office is now giving out the new Samsung 3090 dvr hd boxes. They look very nice in all black. With SDV coming sooner or later, I knew i had to let go of my beloved Moto box w/ 30 second skip. I miss it already. I recorded about 5 different shows over the last couple of days, and all is well as far as I can tell. I like the guide which is full screen.


Can anyone that already has a 3090, tell me how to figure out what size hard drive I have? I understand that the 3090 comes with 2 different sizes.


Ben Music


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16877570
> 
> 
> smoti, first of all nobody said that these are "TWC's excuses." These are industry-wide issues.



Indeed, they are US-industry-wide issues..



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16877570
> 
> 
> Third, at that hotel where you were watching clear-QAM cable channels - I'm betting that all of the HD channels were broadcasters, which are typically carried in the clear natively.



If I recall correctly there was more than just broadcast in there. But why cablecos think it is necessary to encrypt channels in digital that are currently in the clear in analog is beyond me.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16877570
> 
> 
> Don't be so quick to judge, smoti. All of these issues are being worked on by engineers with very sharp pencils. Which is why they need those pocket protectors, after all.



I'm a network operations engineer myself (though with most of the rest of the Internet industry I moved on from the pencils some decades ago  but when I see what a tangled over-complicated technology/policy mess the cable industry here has painted itself into I get very frustrated indeed.

Technological fixes (like SDV) to business/regulatory problems are generally very ugly :-(


Keith


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16877149
> 
> 
> One thing that I actually like about analog tv is that it doesn't have any baggage. The tv set doesn't care about IPs, MPEG PIDs, PCR jitter, etc. Feed it some video with sync pulses and it just works every time. There's a subtle elegance to that legacy system of broadcasting.



Indeed 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8159406.stm 


I loved the way this old 1930s 405-line TV ("Lo-Def" ?) was being fed a digital signal via two converters...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/16880559
> 
> 
> Just a note of interest. The TWC Elyria office is now giving out the new Samsung 3090 dvr hd boxes. They look very nice in all black. With SDV coming sooner or later, I knew i had to let go of my beloved Moto box w/ 30 second skip. I miss it already. I recorded about 5 different shows over the last couple of days, and all is well as far as I can tell. I like the guide which is full screen.
> 
> 
> Can anyone that already has a 3090, tell me how to figure out what size hard drive I have? I understand that the 3090 comes with 2 different sizes.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



And they are handing out their cheap, 3 legged 8300's to the rest of us. At least you got something new, but I wouldn't get too excited about SDV. It is a totaL FAIL.


Edit: Did I say 8300? Because I had to request that what they are handing out are SA 8000.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently they have tracked down the source of my issue and they are going to fix this intermittent SDV problem. When will it get fixed? That's anyones guess.


My contact at TW said she arranged 4 days credit for me. I wonder what that amounts to? I'll bet it's 20 bucks. I told her I really don't want credit I want what I pay for to work.


And what would have happened if I didn't have somebody at head end to contact? It would have been a wasted service call followed by who knows how long before it got to head end to get tracked down. This is just terrible, I feel for all you guys who complained about SDV. I have to admit that I really didn't believe the problems were as bad as you described but they indeed are.


I'm trying to be understanding here, I know they are using a new technology on an archaic system but it's just so flawed I don't see how they can proceed to put more channels on SDV. One good thing about that plan. When all those digital channels go SDV they will get plenty of calls. Maybe then they will realize their error but by then it may be too late.


----------



## Too_Many_options

I am Having SDV issues

(get the please wait screen, then a message that it can't deliver the station)

on one of my 2 Time Warner boxes

(2nd. box works fine gets al the channels)

after a couple of calls they scheduled a service guy (next week).

PS. they offered me a $7.70 credit.....

I am former Adelphia, Northern Medina county

,


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/16881891
> 
> 
> I am Having SDV issues
> 
> (get the please wait screen, then a message that it can't deliver the station)
> 
> on one of my 2 Time Warner boxes
> 
> (2nd. box works fine gets al the channels)
> 
> after a couple of calls they scheduled a service guy (next week).
> 
> PS. they offered me a $7.70 credit.....
> 
> I am former Adelphia, Northern Medina county
> 
> ,



Wow, that's weird that sounds more like a box issue. If you get it on one box you should get it on the other.


Last I looked it was back on but I don't know how long for. Maybe it's fixed.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/16881891
> 
> 
> I am Having SDV issues
> 
> (get the please wait screen, then a message that it can't deliver the station)
> 
> on one of my 2 Time Warner boxes
> 
> (2nd. box works fine gets al the channels)
> 
> after a couple of calls they scheduled a service guy (next week).
> 
> PS. they offered me a $7.70 credit.....
> 
> I am former Adelphia, Northern Medina county
> 
> ,



Could be a box problem or signal level issues. It also might be missing it's service group. Go to the remote for that box and hold down the yellow "A" key for a little more than 10 seconds; this will instruct it to re-request it's service group.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16883794
> 
> 
> Could be a box problem or signal level issues. It also might be missing it's service group. Go to the remote for that box and hold down the yellow "A" key for a little more than 10 seconds; this will instruct it to re-request it's service group.



I just found out about that on Wednesday. The wealth of your knowledge is truly remarkable.


I will bet that solves his problem.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16883854
> 
> 
> The wealth of your knowledge is truly remarkable.



Cathode Kid really doesn't exist. He is a prototype of an A.I. interface we snagged from Planet Zargon, who's population exists solely to monitor and tease with bits of trivia other species that are finally starting to get a clue about what's technically possible...


----------



## ErieMarty

what ever happen to getting 4 or 5 next HD channels every month for the rest of the year..


any idea when the new batch will be added....


was May the last month we got new HD channels ???


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16885414
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid really doesn't exist. He is a prototype of an A.I. interface we snagged from Planet Zargon, who's population exists solely to monitor and tease with bits of trivia other species that are finally starting to get a clue about what's technically possible...



Explains everything!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16885418
> 
> 
> what ever happen to getting 4 or 5 next HD channels every month for the rest of the year..
> 
> 
> any idea when the new batch will be added....
> 
> 
> was May the last month we got new HD channels ???



Crime Warner lied to you.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16885414
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid really doesn't exist. He is a prototype of an A.I. interface we snagged from Planet Zargon, who's population exists solely to monitor and tease with bits of trivia other species that are finally starting to get a clue about what's technically possible...



Dang, my cover has been blown...


----------



## hookbill

I got a call yesterday from my contact at TW saying my issue had been fix, check and see if SDV channels were available. Well, they were available from time to time during the day so I told her as far as I can tell they are on now, but who knows in a half hour or so.


So last night I'm watching the Fish beat up the Dodgers and somewhere around midnight or so I fell asleep. Woke at 1:15 am and what do I see? A frozen picture!


So I hit enter and there's the nasty "channel not available" message. I flipped to STO but that's coming in clear as a bell. I go back to the Dodger game and the last out is being played when wham, frozen picture again. This time I hit 450, no problem with TLC. Back to Dodger game and the "Game Over" is displayed.


So either that was flipping on and off, or some other issue exist. I checked this morning and one channel the downstairs tv was left on was displaying "channel not available." I hit select and the message disappeared.


What a mess this stuff is. In all essence SDV is going to make my TiVo as reliable as a SA 8300, and I consider that totally unreliable.


I had it on CNN this morning and no problems. So it's anybodies guess at this point.


Several times I got grey screens this morning with no message on MLBnet. Probably a totally different issue, but aggravating.


----------



## nickdawg

I'd call TWC NOW!! There's no way in hell you should have to pay a single penny for that MLB Extra Innings service. I know that usually costs over $100 and it is pathetic to think TWC would charge people who pay that much for something that does not even work all the time. If my $100 baseball game had a frozen picture on screen, I'd be calling the FCC and the BBB. Maybe even one of those obnoxious consumer reporters from the local TV stations. That level of service is unacceptable. And once they put all the HBOs on SDV, I'm canceling that too. If they put the digital tier on SDV, I cancel that too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16887489
> 
> 
> I'd call TWC NOW!! There's no way in hell you should have to pay a single penny for that MLB Extra Innings service. I know that usually costs over $100 and it is pathetic to think TWC would charge people who pay that much for something that does not even work all the time. If my $100 baseball game had a frozen picture on screen, I'd be calling the FCC and the BBB. Maybe even one of those obnoxious consumer reporters from the local TV stations. That level of service is unacceptable. And once they put all the HBOs on SDV, I'm canceling that too. If they put the digital tier on SDV, I cancel that too.



If you purchased MLB Extra Innings during the first week it was 179.00. After that it's 199.00. If you buy now it's 139.00. 3 years ago that's how much I paid for an entire season.


Yes, I'm pissed off about it. On Wednesday when we had the huge outage (in my area) the game I wanted to watch was even available in HD. I got nothing. My brother, who has Comcrap in Tennessee got to watch the game. I didn't. And he doesn't even have MLB extra innings. Where he lives he gets Reds games on Fox Sports Net.


Since they credited me for 4 days service I'm kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. I can't complain to BBS because they refunded my money. And I don't know what good it would do to call FCC. That's a huge bureaucracy.


I just took a look at my brothers line up in Nashville area. He has 30 HD channels. Bet there is no SDV. How many do we have now, 40? It appears to me that his entire line up is digital!


FWIW every time I've checked today SDV has been up.


----------



## Vchat20

I'll have to say that I am starting to agree that this SDV stuff is getting rediculous. I normally don't have any problems with it but I have had these few issues the past couple days (even having the channel go to ' is unavailable. Press A to try again' in the middle of a tuned program'). If they can actually FIX it, it wouldn't be an issue. But if it keeps up like this, they can shove it.


Even my mom has comaplined when it's done it. 'For how much we are paying each month this **** better work, not half-assed.'


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16887733
> 
> 
> I'll have to say that I am starting to agree that this SDV stuff is getting rediculous. I normally don't have any problems with it but *I have had these few issues the past couple days (even having the channel go to ' is unavailable. Press A to try again' in the middle of a tuned program').* If they can actually FIX it, it wouldn't be an issue. But if it keeps up like this, they can shove it.
> 
> 
> Even my mom has comaplined when it's done it. 'For how much we are paying each month this **** better work, not half-assed.'



I wonder how a DVR perceives this? I had a couple partials recorded on my TiVo and I couldn't understand why. Now I think I know.


----------



## Vchat20

It may just give up the first try and not bother. I dunno. Kinda hard to actually see when it does it.


----------



## nickdawg

DVR cuts off whenever there is a "Press A" message. It used to happen with shows I've recorded and when I watched it live the Press A message appeared around the time the recording used to cut off.


On the positive side, my DVR is *7%*, yes 7% full. There's now a total of FOUR shows saved, no scheduled recordings. I had 5 or 6 episodes of Rescue Me I didn't watch so I just trashed them. And it's a good thing I didn't want to watch them because I checked them for fun and each day F/X was set to record, the picture was breaking up and stuttering on all but one. You see, I don't save lots of TV shows to watch. Usually if there are two or more episodes recorded, that means I'm never going to watch it. And this time there was no way I could watch it even if I wanted to. +


I haven't watched or recorded a SDV channel in almost two weeks. I was really surprised and clueless when I was reading all the posts last week about the SDV problems. Guess it's a good thing I missed that!! I've been too busy with my converter box and falling in love with my old Sony CRT again.


----------



## hookbill

At 10:45 am on ESPNHD we have a gray screen. This is not an SDV channel, of course. Maybe it's spreading, who knows.


----------



## hookbill

11:27 still a grey screen on ESPN! TW is now getting to move closer to Adelphia for worst cable ever.


----------



## chillycat

430-431 and others still out


The "brickyard's" just beginning......looks freaking [not] great on SD


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16890077
> 
> 
> At 10:45 am on ESPNHD we have a gray screen. This is not an SDV channel, of course. Maybe it's spreading, who knows.



I get gray screen about once a month on all my channels, but I still have sound. I have to reboot the box to get rid of it.


----------



## hookbill

Message on TW CSR says if you're calling about a black or a blue screen on a HD or digital channel they are aware....


How about a grey screen, that's what I got. This has got to mean they are having more SDV problems.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16891007
> 
> 
> I get gray screen about once a month on all my channels, but I still have sound. I have to reboot the box to get rid of it.



That would be a good suggestion if I was just getting it on one box, but remember I have two TiVo's and a SA 8300. There is a black screen on the SA 8300, and just how often am I expected to reboot this damn thing.










Grey screen on TiVo = black screen on SA 8300.


This is in line with what the message said at TW and it isn't just ESPN. There is a whole bunch of channels out right now. Matter of fact the only thing working for sure right now is SDV.


----------



## chillycat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16891018
> 
> 
> grey screen, that's what I got.



ditto on the grey



Been sporadic on the 400's all week. Lots of pixel'ing

and freezing.


----------



## hookbill

I tell you as bad as service has been this week TiVo or not if I had a direct line of sight I'd be over on Direct TV. How can this be possible that this poor quality of service continues? I don't care if they have to purchase all new equipment this is just so sorry.


I haven't done a Dear Steve Fry letter in some time. Maybe I should.


----------



## chillycat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16891102
> 
> 
> How can this be possible that this poor quality of service continues?



Honestly, i've had 99.99% [cable/net/phone] up time the past 7-8 years. A couple hiccups during the swap-over.....but nothing nearly as bad as the past week.


Our pole run on Ceder Rd's all new, as is the CMT's and everything else from pole to house.



HOOK - what's the PQ you're getting currently on 301 please ? *Mine's simply horrible*


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chillycat* /forum/post/16891130
> 
> 
> Honestly, i've had 99.99% [cable/net/phone] up time the past 7-8 years. A couple hiccups during the swap-over.....but nothing nearly as bad as the past week.
> 
> 
> Our pole run on Ceder Rd's all new as is the CMT's and everything else from pole to house.



I get my internet and television from them. Prior to this television issue that we are experiencing I went through a good two week period of internet problems out of nowheres. They came out and laid out a new cable for me for my internet and television. That seemed to solve my internet problem.


Since last Wednesday however on the television side I've seen numerous problems. I don't know how bad it was in your area but around here we had a total loss of all SDV channels, including MLB Extra Innings that I subscribe to. Sure I got a 4 day refund, but that's only because I ***** and complain. I can just imagine the number of people who just took it silently and hoped it would get fixed. Everybody in my area should get a 4 day refund.


And with today I guess you can make that a 5 day refund. TW has just been awful as of late. And the majority of the problems has to do with SDV.


I'm hoping to watch a game at 4:00 pm. Notice I said hoping because who knows if I'll even have a picture? We shouldn't have to feel like that we should have confidence in the service.


----------



## chillycat

My bro-n-law lives in the sub-division across the street from Church of Holy Angels. He's got the same issue as you with Baseball [premium]


Seriously tho...... this is truly the 1st time wev'e had HD problems. Watching old school cable just sux azz.......horrible


----------



## hookbill

Don't know all the channels this is affecting but I see in the HD range TBS, ESPN, ESPN2, HGTV. Looks like MLB Extra Innings is fine.


----------



## shooter21198

Discovery HD and TLC HD were unavailable earlier today which ruined my chance of watching Cronkite Remembers in its entirety


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16891484
> 
> 
> Discovery HD and TLC HD were unavailable earlier today which ruined my chance of watching Cronkite Remembers in its entirety



That's interesting. They are both SDV. Just checked TLC is available. Did you get the channel not available meaaage?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16890077
> 
> 
> At 10:45 am on ESPNHD we have a gray screen. This is not an SDV channel, of course. Maybe it's spreading, who knows.



Oh My God!!! Is the SDV virus spreading to ESPNHD now? One thing I remember from when I thought SDV was a good thing is that heavily viewed channels usually are not put on SDV. That's why I assumed regular ESPN would never be on SDV and I didn't expect USA to be SDV either. I was worried there wouldn't be enough "slots" but it seems you could be the only TV on the node and there still won't be a slot. This system is flawed and I think TWC is in a worse place now than they were a year ago.


I'd call Carl Monday.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16891503
> 
> 
> That's interesting. They are both SDV. Just checked TLC is available. Did you get the channel not available meaaage?



They eventually showed up again after a good 20 minutes of channel not available message


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16891522
> 
> 
> Oh My God!!! Is the SDV virus spreading to ESPNHD now? One thing I remember from when I thought SDV was a good thing is that heavily viewed channels usually are not put on SDV. That's why I assumed regular ESPN would never be on SDV and I didn't expect USA to be SDV either. I was worried there wouldn't be enough "slots" but it seems you could be the only TV on the node and there still won't be a slot. This system is flawed and I think TWC is in a worse place now than they were a year ago.
> 
> 
> I'd call Carl Monday.



Just so there is no misunderstanding neither ESPN or ESPN2 HD are now on SDV. According to the letter I received they will not be going to SDV, at least not on August 18. ESPN U, ESPN Classic, and ESPNews are going SDV.


----------



## hookbill

TW epic FAIL Sunday continues. Seems they managed to have everything working for prime time but all the channels that were down earlier are down again.


----------



## Adam P

I tried flipping to some various SDV channels about an hour or so ago but no dice.


----------



## hookbill

In my area all locals and SDV HD and digital channels are working. If you're having issues with SDV you should call it in. Just hoping it comes back won't solve your problem.


----------



## nickdawg

After some careful indoor antenna tricks, I was finally able to get more than a heartbeat out of WKBN DT. I doesn't always work strong and reliable, but I have been able to see picture and sound on it. I cannot believe it. WKBN is like a network O&O compared to WOIO. Their news isn't HD but they have HD syndication of ET and CSI:NY, which is the same as the Cleveland stations. But the very fact that WKBN can show syndicated HD and and the Cleveland CBS cannot is pathetic. The newscast is 100% better quality than WOIO, even though it is not HD. The graphics are far superior to WOIO. And the programming is better. WOIO has infomercials all night on weekends and even at 7-8pm on Saturday. WKBN does not. WOIO looks like a backwoods station somewhere in a 150-200+ market, not the number 15 market. The talent stinks. You'd think a bigger market has better talent, that's not true at WOIO. I wish that ****stain pathetic excuse of a TV station would just throw in the towel and sign off forever. Let WUAB's DT channel become a repeater for WKBN.


----------



## hookbill

Getting back on topic, trials and tribulations continue for TW. As of this writing the HD channels are intermittent at best. I'm going to send a not to OMW and see if he's got anything on this.


I called TWC this morning as well and they had no idea there was a problem.







She rebooted the box and sent an addressable hit out to my SA 8300 which caused it to temporarily lose SDV channels, but they came right back on.


----------



## Vchat20

Well all has been ok here so far since my last posting, knock on wood.


I think sometime tonight I should go through and make a list of current SDV channels. Cause I don't think anyone even knows the FULL list other than TWC techs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16896976
> 
> 
> Well all has been ok here so far since my last posting, knock on wood.
> 
> 
> I think sometime tonight I should go through and make a list of current SDV channels. Cause I don't think anyone even knows the FULL list other than TWC techs.



Well, when I got up at 7:00 am the same HD channels were down. SDV channels, SD and HD appeared to be working. No message on CSR line so I let call through. The "helpful" CSR was happy to work with my SA 8300 but said, "I can't do nothin' about those cable card things." I said yes you can and told her I would step her through it. She then sent a hit out the the SA 8300 and it rebooted. After reboot the SDV channels were gone along with the regular HD channels that there was a problem with.


Rather then have her deal with my TiVo's I called my contact at TW and she sent a hit out to the SA 8300. When she did it the SA 8300 started downloading firmware for some reason. 10 minutes later everything was back on.


I told her about the problems over the weekend and she was totally unaware of any issues at all. I said well, there was a message on the CSR line saying there were issues so unless my imaginations gone wild something had to have been wrong.


Anyway since that time everything has been working. Hope it stays that way.


----------



## Vchat20

Although I'm still going through the list here, I did notice one strange but welcomed oddity: USAHD is apparently out of the SDV pool here and into normal broadcast. I flipped between STOHD, Discovery HD, and USA HD with the diag panel up and USAHD always goes back to 'NON SDV' status.


I'll have a full list of SDV channels here once I can go through the whole channel lineup and see what's what.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16906484
> 
> 
> Although I'm still going through the list here, I did notice one strange but welcomed oddity: USAHD is apparently out of the SDV pool here and into normal broadcast. I flipped between STOHD, Discovery HD, and USA HD with the diag panel up and USAHD always goes back to 'NON SDV' status.
> 
> 
> I'll have a full list of SDV channels here once I can go through the whole channel lineup and see what's what.



Let me take a look at that channel as well for my part of the world. I'm not sure where to look on the diagnostic page but hopefully I'll find it.


----------



## hookbill

Vchat20 can you tell me what diagnostic screen to look at and what specifically I'm looking for. I'm lost. I checked out the SDV area but I haven't a clue at what to look for.


----------



## Vchat20

Well on the ODN boxes it's under the Navigator diagnostic which you get from holding the select button on the remote til the mail light flashes then hit the down arrow button and it's under Page 8. At the bottom it has 'Primary Tuner State' and 'Secondary Tuner State'. Both of those will switch between 'Inactive' (If you do not subscribe to that channel), 'NON SDV' (Obvious), and 'SDV' (again, obvious) as you change the channels.


For MDN I dunno how to find that out but I assume it's in a very similar location. The page on my ODN box has the title 'Switch Digital Video' if it helps any.


Also, I just finished compiling a list of SDV channels I have found here. Dunno if it's the same across our region (though I'd assume it would be).
Code:


Code:


185 - SAH
186 - CRNST
187 - ONTV4U
190 - FRONT
191 - CSHPad
192 - TVSS
193 - LIQUID
212 - LRW
223 - CHILL
227 - LOGO
329 - G4
330 - TOC
375 - CCTV9
391 - TBN
432 - ESNWH
434 - ESPNUHD
438 - MLBHD
439 - GLF HD
440 - VSHD
449 - DSCHD
450 - TLCHD
451 - SCIHD
452 - APLHD
453 - NGCHD
454 - TRAVHD
456 - DSNHD
460 - FAMHD
463 - LMNHD
464 - AMCHD
466 - BRVHD
469 - PALHD
476 - SYFHD
478 - FXHD
480 - SPDHD
483 - CNNHD
485 - FNCHD
486 - CNBCH
868 - SHOPP

I noticed that STOHD also disappeared from the SDV pool in addition to USAHD. Maybe they are finally listening to common sense and putting more constantly viewed channels back into normal broadcast?


----------



## hookbill

I think STO is still SDV. I couldn't find what you were looking at but last week when I had all my problems with SDV STO was one of the channels I frequently went to check. I think USA is still SDV too for the same reason, unless there were changes made as recent as last week.


Further I don't see STO as a full time not a SDV channel. USA perhaps. But then again we are not on the same system so it's hard for me to say.


My diagnostic screen has 3 screens concerning SDV and I couldn't see any changes even when tuning to a known SDV channel like TLC.


Tivo has a diagnostic for the tuner adapter and it has the same 3 SDV screens, it also list SARA so I doubt I could see anything over there. I can't really observe a change as I would have to get out of the diagnostic screen to change channels.


----------



## Vchat20

That is the same thing that made me wonder too is I had the same issues as you guys last week and both STO and USA HD channels constantly popped up with the 'This channel unavailable' message. But I have it on good authority that this diag page with the specific 'NON SDV' and 'SDV' status messages is about as accurate as you can get.


Two possible explanations come to mind: 1) With the sudden onslaught of last weeks issues, they are coming around and putting some of the more regularly watched channels that are in SDV back into regular broadcast to bypass any future SDV-triggered issues. Or 2) They have somehow found a way to selectively switch channels between regular broadcast and SDV depending on system activity? (this is probably quite a stretch and unlikely, but who knows)


Maybe someone else with an ODN box (nickdawg?) can come in and confirm this on those two channels?


----------



## hookbill

When I tune in a SDV channel there is a unique event that happens. First a long pause before the picture pops us followed with picture and sound then a 1 second sound drop off. And I'm still seeing that on USA. This is all via TiVo and tuner adapter.


----------



## MediaObsessions

Hook, ESPN HD also does the split-second-sound-drop-out on my TiVo and it is not on SDV.


Also, here is how to get to the diagnostic menu for checking SDV vs. Non-SDV channels: (For a TiVo S3 in North Canton anyways, I hope it is the same for you legacy Adelphia and TiVo HD folks.)


TiVo Central

Messages & Settings

Account & System Information

Tuning Adapter

Tuning Adapter Diagnostics

SDV Session Info


It is divided into Session 1 and Session 2 (1 per tuner). Under each session is Name-Status. If it states "Ready" and 2 lines down (Type) it states "switched" then it is SDV.


Non SDV channels have status of "Idle" and type is "Broadcast."


USA HD is also non-SDV in my area.


----------



## pbarach

When I try to access my OnDemand channels, I get a message that they are unavailable, and the screen displays:
*Error 1207

8618*


Can anybody translate that?


----------



## Vchat20

I should also add a note about my list above: That does not include premium channels since I am not subscribed to them. This includes stuff like the movie channels, subscription sports channels, and others. If anyone is subscribed and wants to add to that list, go ahead.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16910513
> 
> 
> When I try to access my OnDemand channels, I get a message that they are unavailable, and the screen displays:
> *Error 1207
> 
> 8618*
> 
> 
> Can anybody translate that?



Sure.


"Something's busted."


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16912016
> 
> 
> Sure.
> 
> 
> "Something's busted."



No, that's Error 666.


Well, nearly *everything* was busted--most of the HD channels weren't working, none of the on demand channels were available, and TWC had a recorded message on their tech line saying "hang up if that's why you're calling; we're working on it."


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/16910369
> 
> 
> Hook, ESPN HD also does the split-second-sound-drop-out on my TiVo and it is not on SDV.
> 
> 
> Also, here is how to get to the diagnostic menu for checking SDV vs. Non-SDV channels: (For a TiVo S3 in North Canton anyways, I hope it is the same for you legacy Adelphia and TiVo HD folks.)
> 
> 
> TiVo Central
> 
> Messages & Settings
> 
> Account & System Information
> 
> Tuning Adapter
> 
> Tuning Adapter Diagnostics
> 
> SDV Session Info
> 
> 
> It is divided into Session 1 and Session 2 (1 per tuner). Under each session is Name-Status. If it states "Ready" and 2 lines down (Type) it states "switched" then it is SDV.
> 
> 
> Non SDV channels have status of "Idle" and type is "Broadcast."
> 
> 
> USA HD is also non-SDV in my area.




Well that made things a little easier to understand on our version of the SDV Screen, and I did check USA HD in my area and it is not in SDV. This should please nickdawg.


Also to give credit where it is do to Vchat20 and his extensive compiling of SDV channels he is correct that STO is no longer listed as SDV. IMHO a couple of good moves TW made with their shaky technology.


I do have two Premium channels both should have all channels remaining on regular broadcast until August 18. At that time HBO channels Signature East, Family East, Comedy East and Latino will be moving to SDV. Cinemax has Cinemax East, More MAX East, Action MAX East, Thriller East, Outer MAX East @Max, and W MAX going SDV. Showtime has Too East, Extreme East, Beyond East, and Family East. TMC East. Starz has, East, Edge East, in Black, Kids and Family, Cinema East, and Comedy. All these channels will be SDV per letter I received on 8/18.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16912721
> 
> 
> All these channels will be SDV per letter I received on 8/18.



Well, Hook, there ya go... Play around with the time-space continuum by bringing in a letter from the future, and it stops all posting until we catch up to 8/18...


----------



## nickdawg

Hello? Is this place open? Haven't seen "Cleveland TWC" anywhere near the top of the general listings lately. What happened? Lots of people quit TWC? Or are you like me and now realize that page after page of rants here are worth nothing more than the entertainment factor? I've finally come to accept that TWC problems will never be fixed so I'm not barking anymore. Plus I enjoy CECB and OTA. Now if they would abolish VHF for ATSC, I'd e a much happier person. But I can't complain too much as I have two indoor antennas set up in my house that almost max out the signal strength bar on WOIO and WJW. UHF would be nice to avoid the hiccups whenever a truck goes by, plane flies over or the weather is funky.


----------



## Vchat20

Do you know nick that USAHD is now off SDV?


----------



## nickdawg

What's this about USA HD? I'll have to check it out...


For ****s and giggles I decided to check the diagnostic screen. I see:


1827

USAHD SDV USAHD


1790

SPPPV SDV STOHD


Apparently here they are still SDV?







Who knows. USA could be broadcasting in 3D ED XD smell-o-vision and I wouldn't have known. Haven't watched that channel in at least three weeks.


----------



## Vchat20

Check your 'switched digital' diag page (page 9 on ODN I think?) and stare at the tuner status entries at the bottom. Should be reading NON SDV. Unless you're little corner of the world is still bass-ackwards.


----------



## nickdawg

I checked that page you listed. USA HD is listed as "NON SDV". STOHD is also "NON SDV". Cool, whatever...










Basically it took TWC four months to do what they should've done in the first place. The next thing that should happen is to move Discovery HDT, HGTV and Big Ten Network *INTO* SDV and move F/X, CNN, regular Discovery and MSNBC(when it is added) out of SDV. It's idiotic to have put such popular networks on SDV in the first place. Of course this is all a band aid covering the bullet hole. What really needs to be done is KILL some more ANALOG channels. There's no reason to have VH1 Classic, Lifetime Movies, WE and Oxygen, Jewelry TV, Soap Opera on ANALOG when popular networks like F/X and CNN are unwatchable on *ASS*DV. And what's even worse is the idea of putting PAY channels like HBO on this miserable failure technology. If any more of the HBO channels, the East ones go SDV, I'm canceling HBO. I refuse to pay $12/month for programming that works when it wants to.


Of course the USA thing is now a moot point to me. I could care less. I haven't watched In Plain Sight in four weeks(and I have not missed it either!). Didn't even look at Burn Notice or the other new shows that premiered.


----------



## ErieMarty

did I miss them.. were we not told we are going to be getting 4 or 5 new HD channels every month until the end of the year..


Or was this just a tease to keep people on TW Cable..


I appreciate what they already added this year. Alot more options then what we had at the start of the year.


Did they run out of HD channels to be added. I know there is Weather channel in HD not sure what others dish/direct have that we don't yet.


Plus what ever happened to Fox Ohio/Sports..going to 24/7 HD...wasn't that suppose to take place earlier this year.


Not that I watch much Fox Ohio when its not Cavs season, just curious


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16928742
> 
> 
> I checked that page you listed. USA HD is listed as "NON SDV". STOHD is also "NON SDV". Cool, whatever...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically it took TWC four months to do what they should've done in the first place. The next thing that should happen is to move Discovery HDT, HGTV and Big Ten Network *INTO* SDV and move F/X, CNN, regular Discovery and MSNBC(when it is added) out of SDV. It's idiotic to have put such popular networks on SDV in the first place. Of course this is all a band aid covering the bullet hole. What really needs to be done is KILL some more ANALOG channels. There's no reason to have VH1 Classic, Lifetime Movies, WE and Oxygen, Jewelry TV, Soap Opera on ANALOG when popular networks like F/X and CNN are unwatchable on *ASS*DV. And what's even worse is the idea of putting PAY channels like HBO on this miserable failure technology. If any more of the HBO channels, the East ones go SDV, I'm canceling HBO. I refuse to pay $12/month for programming that works when it wants to.
> 
> 
> Of course the USA thing is now a moot point to me. I could care less. I haven't watched In Plain Sight in four weeks(and I have not missed it either!). Didn't even look at Burn Notice or the other new shows that premiered.




FWIW nickdawg I actually pulled In Plain Sight off my Season Pass list. Whatever it had last year it does not have this year.


I can almost guarantee they won't put anymore HBO channels on SDV. I was surprised that they did but quite honestly the only channel I look at on HBO is HBO HD.


Recommendation: Best show of the Summer goes out to SyFy. Warehouse 13 is a great show if you haven't checked it out, you ought to. You do have that On Demand stuff right? Maybe you can take a look there.


We've already discussed the analog situation. That dog is dead no sense in continuing to kick it.


I'm not feeling any anger at SDV right now. Don't know what they've done but pixelation problems seem to be over and when did that problem with it going down occur? It seems like a couple weeks ago was it only last week?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16928839
> 
> 
> did I miss them.. were we not told we are going to be getting 4 or 5 new HD channels every month until the end of the year..



I answered that for you at the start of the month. You asked the same question.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16928839
> 
> 
> Did they run out of HD channels to be added. I know there is Weather channel in HD not sure what others dish/direct have that we don't yet.



There are a lot more HD channels available. At least 60 probably more.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/16928839
> 
> 
> Plus what ever happened to Fox Ohio/Sports..going to 24/7 HD...wasn't that suppose to take place earlier this year.
> 
> Not that I watch much Fox Ohio when its not Cavs season, just curious



Let me ask you a question. Do you read the forum on a regular basis, because by the questions you ask these have all pretty much been talked about at one time or another?


One more time: No channels in July were added for HD. There is no word on FOX Ohio going 24 hours HD and since the Reds play on that channel and they black it out when Reds are playing it could never really be 24 hours. Maybe for you folks in Erie they don't black out but they do in my area.


Also I published a list off of a letter of channels that will be going SDV on 8/18. You have to think the reason they are putting more channels on SDV is because they are planning more HD channels My list had has a total of 69 channels moving to SDV. When they start adding these channels and what they will be is anybody's guess but the best way to find out what they might be adding is to go to http://www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/ and check under Program Notices.


----------



## hookbill

Some of the channels that are on my list are actually being moved out of the analog channel list. It seems that TW is making an effort to reduce the amount of analog channels available. From the notices page:

_From time to time, we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned: RFT TV, *Military History Channel* and *Crime & Investigation Network* may be added to the Digital Choice Package on or after August 15, 2009. Daystar will be added to the Digital Basic Tier._


And then Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network are being move to SDV on the 18th.


They are slowly but surely reducing the amount of available analog channels.


----------



## Vchat20

You mean you actually get those channels on analog up there? oO Talk about wasting gobs of bandwidth on niche demographic channels. At least here 99% of our analog channels are regularly viewed to some extent. Unless I am reading the wording of that notice wrong.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16929149
> 
> 
> You mean you actually get those channels on analog up there? oO Talk about wasting gobs of bandwidth on niche demographic channels. At least here 99% of our analog channels are regularly viewed to some extent. Unless I am reading the wording of that notice wrong.



My bad. I don't even see Crime and Information, I thought that was Court TV and Military History Channel already has been moved to digital.


I don't watch either of those channels. And in my area I'm not sure we even get C & I Network. I don't see it on the list. Apparently they are moving from Digital basic to digital choice. Oh well, I don't watch them like I said.


----------



## Vchat20

Sorry. Lemme rephrase. I meant channels like Military History and 'Crime & Investigation Network'. Are those actually in analog up there or am I just mis-reading?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16929165
> 
> 
> Sorry. Lemme rephrase. I meant channels like Military History and 'Crime & Investigation Network'. Are those actually in analog up there or am I just mis-reading?



No, I was wrong in thinking they were analog channels. They are not.


Has anyone taken a look at TW's guide? It's actually up to date. Now I'm curious for you people in Elyria and Mentor, does your guide show the new HD channels? I'll bet it doesn't and that's how they get away with charging you the same price as the rest of us.


Speaking about price we never have received any notice about the cable bill going up 5.00 as many of you have reported and to the best of my knowledge the bill is still the same.


----------



## schandorsky

A strange thing happen this afternoon. At 3:30 this afternoon my Time Warner box rebooted and 15 minutes later it did it again. Does anybody have any idea what is going on?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/16931578
> 
> 
> A strange thing happen this afternoon. At 3:30 this afternoon my Time Warner box rebooted and 15 minutes later it did it again. Does anybody have any idea what is going on?



Doubt it was anything. Firmware upgrades usually will reboot in the early morning like 3am. it wouldn't require a second reboot.


Do you have a DVR or just a box? if its just a box and it happens again get a new box. If its a DVR and it happens again move your recorded stuff and get a new DVR.


----------



## nickdawg

Not a firmware upgrade. Those happen overnight. Besides, why would TWC upgrade their firmware?







They "think like we think" and apparently we want outdated firmware.










Their crappy box just resets itself sometimes. That's just the way it is.


----------



## gnalmij

So how unstable is TWC, really? I'm moving to a new home in Pepper Pike, and AT&T can't provide better than "up to 0.7 mbps" Internet access at this location (no Uverse either), which isn't fast enough to use my work's VPN. I've been a happy subscriber to DirecTV since running away from Adelpia to get HD in early 2004, and would move with DirecTV if I could get at least 1.5 mbps Internet access and phone from AT&T at the new house. However, it appears TWC is my only Internet option, which has me looking at the TWC bundle of digital cable, Internet (up to 7 mbps) and phone. However, my Adelphia experience was so bad, I'm afraid to take a step backwards to TWC HD from the quite good DirecTV HD. In exchange for good Internet, I could live with fewer HD channels with the promise of more to come, but not with HD channels that keep turning on and off. I guess I could live with a clunky DVR, but not with a DVR that selectively chooses when and when not to record.


Many of the regular posters here complaint about TWC, but that also means that the regular posters remain subscribers to TWC for their own reasons. Putting aside those few who can't get line-of-sight to a satellite, can you say that TWC cable with HD, plus Internet and phone is worth it? Or should I keep DirecTV and pirate my neighbor's Roadrunner for Internet access (yes, there is an unsecured wireless connection)?


Also, the new house has a TWC cable install that was poorly done and looks like it might have been done more than once. Wiring is dangling freely from gutters and goes through a basement window with a rag stuffed in the window to stop the breeze. Plus the main TV area has two cables coming through the wall about six feet from the floor and two other cables coming through the wall about 2 feet from the floor. From the outside, these look like two separate runs (classic high road/low road - one across roof, the other close to ground). If I subscribe to TWC, should I pull out all the existing cabling so that I get new runs with the install?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/16934790
> 
> 
> So how unstable is TWC, really? I'm moving to a new home in Pepper Pike, and AT&T can't provide better than "up to 0.7 mbps" Internet access at this location (no Uverse either), which isn't fast enough to use my work's VPN. I've been a happy subscriber to DirecTV since running away from Adelpia to get HD in early 2004, and would move with DirecTV if I could get at least 1.5 mbps Internet access and phone from AT&T at the new house. However, it appears TWC is my only Internet option, which has me looking at the TWC bundle of digital cable, Internet (up to 7 mbps) and phone. However, my Adelphia experience was so bad, I'm afraid to take a step backwards to TWC HD from the quite good DirecTV HD. In exchange for good Internet, I could live with fewer HD channels with the promise of more to come, but not with HD channels that keep turning on and off. I guess I could live with a clunky DVR, but not with a DVR that selectively chooses when and when not to record.
> 
> 
> Many of the regular posters here complaint about TWC, but that also means that the regular posters remain subscribers to TWC for their own reasons. Putting aside those few who can't get line-of-sight to a satellite, can you say that TWC cable with HD, plus Internet and phone is worth it? Or should I keep DirecTV and pirate my neighbor's Roadrunner for Internet access (yes, there is an unsecured wireless connection)?
> 
> 
> Also, the new house has a TWC cable install that was poorly done and looks like it might have been done more than once. Wiring is dangling freely from gutters and goes through a basement window with a rag stuffed in the window to stop the breeze. Plus the main TV area has two cables coming through the wall about six feet from the floor and two other cables coming through the wall about 2 feet from the floor. From the outside, these look like two separate runs (classic high road/low road - one across roof, the other close to ground). If I subscribe to TWC, should I pull out all the existing cabling so that I get new runs with the install?



Put it this way. At this point despite the fact that I've spent 1200.00 in TiVo equipment for cable TiVo, I would probably switch to D* if I had a clean line of sight. I wouldn't say I would do it in a heartbeat but I'd give it serious consideration.


Their DVR is totally unreliable if you record heavily like I do. If you use it occasionally it's OK. We have one in the house now.


I really like TW's internet, I don't think the phone company can beat it. YMMV. I did have some recent problems but TW laid new cable all the way out to the street for me and fine tuned the equipment downstairs.


I don't know what they will do about your wiring if you tear it down outside. They will only do a basic install anything beyond that cost extra.


Don't steal cable. It's illegal and unfair for the rest of us to have to pay for your service. And you will seriously piss of nickdawg.

















Don't expect to see anything different if you are in an ex Adelphia area. Nothing has changed that much other then the fact that TW tries to market you more then anybody else.


I have heard that AT&T U-Verse only allows you to receive one HD channel at a time. I don't know if that has changed but it use to be you could only record one HD channel at a time. Just something you may want to think about.


----------



## rick490




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/16934790
> 
> 
> So how unstable is TWC, really?



I have line of site and I could probably go to Directv but I'm wary of the commitment. I record quite a bit during the winter and I can honestly say I've never had a recording fail. But it's true that once in a while (usually during the day, though) the sdv channels will put up the message "not available, try again". Remember though that none of the locals are sdv so you shouldn't have any problems with them. HDTV quality is pretty good.


Having said all that, if you like directv, why not keep it for tv and get TWC for roadrunner only. You could get VOIP phone from Viatalk www.viatalk.com for $200 for two years and it includes two lines.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/16934790
> 
> 
> So how unstable is TWC, really?



Very. If you have a HDTV set and want to watch HDTV programming, I'd consider getting TWC's internet service only. Get D* for programming. Trust me, I'm one who usually hates satellite. That's how bad TWC is. At least with satellite you only see reception problems in severe weather. With TWC, you can be hit with the "Channel Not Available" message at any time. Even during recordings.


Also, don't fall for TWC's phone service scam. If you want to be able to properly call 911 and have a working phone in a power outage, TWC is not the company to provide that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16936782
> 
> 
> Also, don't fall for TWC's phone service scam. If you want to be able to properly call 911 and have a working phone in a power outage, TWC is not the company to provide that.



Really? Well, I don't know how TW does it but Vonage does provide full e911 service. They have for a couple of years now.


And I'll bet TW does. Why do I think that? I'm not certain but I believe that e 911 is required now. Vonage charges us about .95 a month I believe for the additional required service. My total bill is around 21.00 a month, but I am limited to only 450 outgoing calls. This does not include outgoing 800 number calls. Incoming calls are free. Long distance is free. Unlimited calling comes in around 27.00 a month or so.


What you have to look out for on TW's phone service is the rate is an introductory rate and it will go up on you as will all your cable services. Adelphia use to offer a year, I don't know what TW offers now.


TW will also tell you that you can get caller ID on your television and you can but what they don't tell you is they will charge you for caller ID.


----------



## Vchat20

Charging for caller id? That's new. Unless they are hiding it under some other fee, I have never seen a charge for the caller ID service on our bill. All those extra 'value services' come free with your service: http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...gfeatures.html 


As far as 911 and power outages: 911 service does work and very well. They have the advantage of having your billing address on file to provide to the 911 calling center and moving your modem to another premises usually is not gonna happen unless you have another very good reason for it and even then you won't be able to take it very far (I kinda doubt I'd be able to move mine to, say, Canton and have it work without reprovisioning it and that would take changing the billing address and junk completely) and if you do have a need for it, you'll take 911 service into account if smart enough.


Power outages: I will give you that. But really how often do we get them around here when they are not man-made outages and short lived? Most areas have the plant on a battery/genset backup. The modems all have capabilities for addon backup batteries and even if TW doesn't supply them in your area, most are available on ebay with the right search terms. And if that doesn't tickle your fancy, a basic UPS will do the job and even have an added bonus of keeping a cordless phone system going in an outage.


Don't knock TWC's phone service until you have tried it yourself for longer than a week. It may not be as cost effective as a true VoIP service, but it's much cheaper than POTS and it Just Works(tm).


----------



## subavision212

I'm not sure TWC should even try to give us even more new HD channels since they can't keep the one they've already given us working. For the last three days I've had at least 4-8 different HD channels with the dreaded not available message and many times it was when I really wanted to watch something. granted, they sometimes would pop back in 10 or 15 minutes later (sometimes not) but I would have to keep changing channels to check which pretty much sucks. It really sucks when I get my 98.00 bill and have to write a check not knowing if I can turn on my tv and get the channels I'm supposed to have ALL THE TIME!


----------



## hookbill

The last time I saw their pricing they charged for caller ID. That may have change.


You mean they dont forward your call if there is a power outage? UPS doesn't last that long on my computer and we had a 5 hour blackout recently and I've seen them last for days.


----------



## Vchat20

The modem is not a huge power consumer compared to a computer and will last a lot longer on a UPS. May not be whole days, but I'd wager an estimate of close to 24 hours depending on the size of the backup battery.


Selective forwarding: This is why you get a google voice number and have calls ring both your home and cell numbers and choose which one to pick up.







Both my mom and myself do this and it works flawlessly. And as a bonus, I have 'visual voicemail' (transcribed messages) SMS'd to my cell and accessible online with the original message. Works with any landline/VoIP/cell carriers. And with the addition of a free Gizmo account, I have free in-US incoming and outgoing calls with any SIP capable device through my google voice number.

-Vonage's selective forwarding is more a bonus feature than anything on top of the focus of providing a dialtone. Not everyone is going to be using it as a deal maker/breaker when shopping for phone service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/16938255
> 
> 
> I'm not sure TWC should even try to give us even more new HD channels since they can't keep the one they've already given us working. For the last three days I've had at least 4-8 different HD channels with the dreaded not available message and many times it was when I really wanted to watch something. granted, they sometimes would pop back in 10 or 15 minutes later (sometimes not) but I would have to keep changing channels to check which pretty much sucks. It really sucks when I get my 98.00 bill and have to write a check not knowing if I can turn on my tv and get the channels I'm supposed to have ALL THE TIME!



You really should complain about this. There's probably a problem at the hub. When I got that I complained. Now I admit I do have a different number to call but still they should fix it.


----------



## Vchat20

Also, where exactly do you live that you have day+ long power outages with no severe weather in sight? oO I know we have had some storms here lately, but they haven't been THAT bad. I can just imagine your area being strung up with old crochety overheard aluminum electrical lines and poles from circa 1900.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16938328
> 
> 
> The modem is not a huge power consumer compared to a computer and will last a lot longer on a UPS. May not be whole days, but I'd wager an estimate of close to 24 hours depending on the size of the backup battery.
> 
> 
> Selective forwarding: This is why you get a google voice number and have calls ring both your home and cell numbers and choose which one to pick up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both my mom and myself do this and it works flawlessly. And as a bonus, I have 'visual voicemail' (transcribed messages) SMS'd to my cell and accessible online with the original message. Works with any landline/VoIP/cell carriers. And with the addition of a free Gizmo account, I have free in-US incoming and outgoing calls with any SIP capable device through my google voice number.
> 
> -Vonage's selective forwarding is more a bonus feature than anything on top of the focus of providing a dialtone. Not everyone is going to be using it as a deal maker/breaker when shopping for phone service.



I have google voice and why not? I use it to make calls from my blackberry and SMS but I don't use the forwarding. If I'm not home it can go to voice mail. Truth is I never even come close to 450 calls last month however I had 200 of my 250 text.


----------



## Vchat20

Like I said earlier: Don't knock it til you have tried it for yourself. In our house it was used merely to get away from Embarq/Sprint and it has done that job very well. VoIP would be an option if we weren't stuck on the Lite HSI package.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16938339
> 
> 
> Also, where exactly do you live that you have day+ long power outages with no severe weather in sight? oO I know we have had some storms here lately, but they haven't been THAT bad. I can just imagine your area being strung up with old crochety overheard aluminum electrical lines and poles from circa 1900.



Bainbridge is very rural I have nothing but woods in my back yard. When we first moved here I May 2004 we had a 4 day outage in the Spring and a 3 day outage in early Spring 2005, That's when we bought our natural gas powered generator. Since then we've had no longer outages then 5 or 6 hours.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16938227
> 
> 
> Don't knock TWC's phone service until you have tried it yourself for longer than a week. It may not be as cost effective as a true VoIP service, but it's much cheaper than POTS and it Just Works(tm).



Ehhh, no. I don't even want to try it for one day. I like my phone service and I'm not screwing with it. The phone is the only thing that works reliably. A call to 911 takes me TO 911, not some call center crap. I don't care how well they claim it works, it does not work as well as a regular telephone line. As I have said before this whole VOIP system is retarded. It's reinventing something that did not need to be reinvented and in turn making it worse. The phone system has been the same for close to 100 years, give or take a few minor changes and I see no need to change it now. And I refuse to change.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16938279
> 
> 
> The last time I saw their pricing they charged for caller ID. That may have change.



I wouldn't be surprised if they did charge. Usually those kind of things are extras. That's how it is on AT&T, I think. I don't have caller ID so I don't really know.


----------



## hookbill

We've been down this road before and I don't intend to go down it again but Voyage does connect you with the "real" 911,

Geese nickdawg the phone company does not own 911. They don't even bring that up in there commercials because its not true.


And you are right, phone company does charge for caller id. Vonage doesn't and I believe Vchat20 if he says TW doesn't. The phone company is a dinosaur and it will probably have to change the way they deliver service or they will be extinct.


Heck as tight as you are and ket me tell you bro you squeak I can't see why you can't embrace this technology.


----------



## Vchat20

Here's an excerpt from our past bill:
 

As far as the phone service is concerned it is the original standard unlimited local/long distance package, all the basic extras like caller id, call forwarding, 3-way, etc.. There's no charges on there relating to phone other than the main cost of service and the fees.


The link I posted a little ways up on the matter clearly displays what extra phone services are completely free and automatically included as well as what costs extra. Caller ID on TV just requires the digital phone service and any STB and cable package that TWC offers. And most of the time the feature is set up automatically (if not, call up a CSR and it'll be fixed in moments).


Also nick: 911 service, by law, is supposed to go direct to the 911 call center (the same call center you will reach on a copper POTS line) for your physical location (though some services rely on convoluted means to determine this. true VoIP services like vonage go by the billing address the same as Time Warner's system but they warn you ahead of time if you decide to move your ATA to another residence). /NO/ company routes 911 calls to an IVR or non-emergency call center before reaching the real 911 call center. If they did, the FCC would be on them in seconds.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/16934790
> 
> 
> So how unstable is TWC, really? I'm moving to a new home in Pepper Pike, and AT&T can't provide better than "up to 0.7 mbps" Internet access at this location (no Uverse either), which isn't fast enough to use my work's VPN. I've been a happy subscriber to DirecTV since running away from Adelpia to get HD in early 2004, and would move with DirecTV if I could get at least 1.5 mbps Internet access and phone from AT&T at the new house. However, it appears TWC is my only Internet option, which has me looking at the TWC bundle of digital cable, Internet (up to 7 mbps) and phone. However, my Adelphia experience was so bad, I'm afraid to take a step backwards to TWC HD from the quite good DirecTV HD. In exchange for good Internet, I could live with fewer HD channels with the promise of more to come, but not with HD channels that keep turning on and off. I guess I could live with a clunky DVR, but not with a DVR that selectively chooses when and when not to record.
> 
> 
> Many of the regular posters here complaint about TWC, but that also means that the regular posters remain subscribers to TWC for their own reasons. Putting aside those few who can't get line-of-sight to a satellite, can you say that TWC cable with HD, plus Internet and phone is worth it? Or should I keep DirecTV and pirate my neighbor's Roadrunner for Internet access (yes, there is an unsecured wireless connection)?
> 
> 
> Also, the new house has a TWC cable install that was poorly done and looks like it might have been done more than once. Wiring is dangling freely from gutters and goes through a basement window with a rag stuffed in the window to stop the breeze. Plus the main TV area has two cables coming through the wall about six feet from the floor and two other cables coming through the wall about 2 feet from the floor. From the outside, these look like two separate runs (classic high road/low road - one across roof, the other close to ground). If I subscribe to TWC, should I pull out all the existing cabling so that I get new runs with the install?



I live in Solon, have been with TW (before that it was Adelphia) in the area for nearly 5 years since I moved back here, and I would have to give TW a thumbs up for both cable TV and Roadrunner internet. I have the SA8300HD and have not had the recording reliability problems that Hook has reported in the past. (I believe he will tell you that the majority of those problems were due to his use of an external hard drive on his old 8300HD for which the support was "not ready for prime time".)


We record 2-4 HD programs per day, often record 2 while watching one and have no issues. The WAF (wife acceptance factor) is very high!


I get my VOIP phone service from ViaTalk and it works very well on Roadrunner. I have the cable modem, router, VOIP interface and 5.8 GHz wireless phone base on a UPS and the local cable plant seems to have adequate battery backup to handle all but one power outage we've had over the past 5 years.


Is TWC better than Dish or Direct TV? I don't know. I have too many trees to the south to even consider trying it now.


Hope this helps!


Ron J.


----------



## hookbill

You save a lot of money by taking the Road Runner light. If I was to do that instead of using Vonage and Road Runner turbo or whatever they call it my bill would be about the same as yours with Vonage. But we use the high speed for other things like my wife's second life so we really need the turbo internet speed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16939950
> 
> 
> I live in Solon, have been with TW (before that it was Adelphia) in the area for nearly 5 years since I moved back here, and I would have to give TW a thumbs up for both cable TV and Roadrunner internet. I have the SA8300HD and have not had the recording reliability problems that Hook has reported in the past. (I believe he will tell you that the majority of those problems were due to his use of an external hard drive on his old 8300HD for which the support was "not ready for prime time".)
> 
> 
> We record 2-4 HD programs per day, often record 2 while watching one and have no issues. The WAF (wife acceptance factor) is very high!
> 
> 
> I get my VOIP phone service from ViaTalk and it works very well on Roadrunner. I have the cable modem, router, VOIP interface and 5.8 GHz wireless phone base on a UPS and the local cable plant seems to have adequate battery backup to handle all but one power outage we've had over the past 5 years.
> 
> 
> Is TWC better than Dish or Direct TV? I don't know. I have too many trees to the south to even consider trying it now.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Ron J.



If I'm watching 3 shows minimum a night and recording 4-6 then I would consider that to be a ball park of what I was doing. I record even more today.


At this ration you will quickly run out of room on the measly 20 hour disk that's provided with their DVR so you almost have to have an eSATA. Now I don't know what happened to that thing but on the box it said it was made specially for the SA 8300. It was 250 gb and I needed that extra space.


To this day if you purchase an eSATA for the SA 8300 you still will not get support from TW because that is not a feature that is "offered" of the DVR it's simply available. Heck, to be honest I can probably get more support from TW for my TiVo then you could for that eSATA.


My point is you might be recording a bit more then average but you wouldn't be able to record at the pace I do without eSATA. But that alone does not give the SA 8300 a fail. It has failed on it's own without the eSATA attached, just not as frequently. However as you said there is no doubt that it was much wort when adding eSATA.


----------



## gnalmij

Thanks to all for the comments on TWC. My statement about pirating from the neighbor was in jest, although I have considered offering to sub-lease Internet access from the neighbor. There might, however, be a TWC contract term prohibiting resale.


----------



## nickdawg

I have a good TWC question. Are you allowed to have a cable card? Let's say someone wants to save money on their cable bill and they really don't care about losing whatever is in the SDV pool. Would they be allowed to have a cable card now that this area has been infected by SDV or is TWC essentially "banned" from selling cable cards now? I looked at the recent price list and I see TWC still has cable card listed as $3, so I wonder if they are still giving them out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16945571
> 
> 
> I have a good TWC question. Are you allowed to have a cable card? Let's say someone wants to save money on their cable bill and they really don't care about losing whatever is in the SDV pool. Would they be allowed to have a cable card now that this area has been infected by SDV or is TWC essentially "banned" from selling cable cards now? I looked at the recent price list and I see TWC still has cable card listed as $3, so I wonder if they are still giving them out.



Absolutely you can have cable card. You will have to pay a 28 dollar install fee to get one. You can't just pick one up at TW office.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16945607
> 
> 
> Absolutely you can have cable card. You will have to pay a 28 dollar install fee to get one. You can't just pick one up at TW office.



Yikes!!





















$28 just to stick a fncking credit card into a fncking slot! I'd happily insert my foot into TWC for free.










I think I'll just cancel my cable box and watch whatever is left in the analog tier(CNN, USA, whatever) are in there anyway, that's all that matters. Plus I can use my antenna to still watch real HD on the broadcast networks through OTA, which is what I watch 90% of the time anyway. Plus the added benefit of knowing that analog will ALWAYS work, unlike *ASS*DV.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16945718
> 
> 
> I think I'll just cancel my cable box and watch whatever is left in the analog tier



Sorry, but the Nickdawg Rules for TW Subscribers explicitly require you to have that ugly box. Using analog only is expressly prohibited.


(Sorry, couldn't resist....)


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnalmij* /forum/post/16941482
> 
> 
> although I have considered offering to sub-lease Internet access from the neighbor. There might, however, be a TWC contract term prohibiting resale.



That's definitely a no-no. From http://help.twcable.com/html/twc_sub_agreement.html 



> Quote:
> (iii) If I receive HSD Service, I agree not to use the HSD Service for operation as an Internet service provider, for the hosting of websites (other than as expressly permitted as part of the HSD Service) or for any enterprise purpose whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit. I agree that, among other things, my use of any form of transmitter or wide area network that enables persons or entities outside the location identified in the Work Order to use my Services, whether or not a fee is sought, will constitute an enterprise purpose. Furthermore, if I use a wireless network within my residence, I will limit wireless access to the HSD Service (by establishing and using a secure password or similar means) to the members of my household.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16945718
> 
> 
> Yikes!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $28 just to stick a fncking credit card into a fncking slot! I'd happily insert my foot into TWC for free.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'll just cancel my cable box and watch whatever is left in the analog tier(CNN, USA, whatever) are in there anyway, that's all that matters. Plus I can use my antenna to still watch real HD on the broadcast networks through OTA, which is what I watch 90% of the time anyway. Plus the added benefit of knowing that analog will ALWAYS work, unlike *ASS*DV.



No, not for just sticking it in the slot. They also have to place a call to have someone set up service for that card number.










Outside of the constant pixelation on any channel, everything is working just fine now.







I'm a happy customer, let me poor some more of this Irish whisky in my coffee.










You recommending satellite to somebody is the biggest turn around you've made since you admitted you were jealous of TiVo. Now I know you're not going to get a TiVo but seriously reconsider D*. Hey, you get a better DVR better picture, better customer service. And D* is supposed to be laying out some kind of deal to return to TiVo so you could potentially have the best of everything. I'd jump if I were you.


----------



## Vchat20

Well I have already made my decision that once I have the extra $1000 or so to build a Windows 7 based HTPC ($600 for the main hardware and OTA/analog tuners with the right haggling and another $400 for the cablecard tuners) I'm gonna go that route and dump Time Warner's crap. ATI's supposed to be releasing new firmware for their cablecard tuners that relaxes their DRM to bring it in line with Tivo's CCI limitations and also adding support for the SDV tuning adapters. As a bonus, I can use as many or as few tuners as I want as long as they fit in the machine. USB tuners would be endless (Want to watch/record all the OTA channels simultaneously? Cool. I can add 6, 7, or 8 OTA tuners in addition to 2, 3, 4, etc.. cablecard tuners if I want to go nuts)


Positive side to this is that I can literally go to any provider if I want and even do HD on satellite through Hauppage's HD-PVR. No subscription fees for the guide data. And to be quite honest I do think it is ahead of Tivo in the feature/usability/speed department at the cost of a hiked entry price. If you wanna do the cablecard thing, all the tuners you are gonna find run $180 at the absolute cheapest and usually upwards of $200-$250 a pop and this is on top of building a capable machine with a decent amount of storage and then the OS. But it does have its advantages nevertheless.


I mean, I like Navigator when it comes to being stuck with a low cost DVR from the cable company. If you don't expect the world out of it, it works great. But I am overdue for replacing it. Sadly the lack of a job around here these days is making this quite a challenge.


Anyways,


----------



## Vchat20

I should add that it has even gotten to a point that my mom has noticed some of the annoying bugs in Navigator and she's not even tech literate and pays close attention to the workings of these things. Granted they aren't show-stopping bugs, but annoyances nonetheless. Notably one is when you are scrolling through the guide, the title/description data in the top left of the screen does not update and shows the previous channel you had the cursor on until you go left or right staying on that program (I have only played with the bug on hour+ long shows. Dunno about half hour shows.)


----------



## black88mx6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16945718
> 
> 
> Yikes!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $28 just to stick a fncking credit card into a fncking slot! I'd happily insert my foot into TWC for free.



I have yet to have to pay for a cable card install; TW has never got it right the first time out yet. Twice they "forgot" to bring a card out, and another time they messed up my calibrated 52 inch Mitsubishi set by re-setting it to defaults. Each time I got a credit for the install. I have 3 cable cards total.


In the mail TW offered a “de-featured” cable box for 1 year, at the same cost as a cable card for current cable card subscribers. I thought this would be a good time to see what I was missing with all these new SDV HD channels. When I was recently having a repair done due to channel lineups being lost on my cable card sets. I asked for one of these “special” boxes to be brought out so that I could test it with my current TV’s and see how they integrated into my setup.


After hooking up the set to the cable box to my Mitsubishi 52 LCD HDMI port, I immediately noticed that the picture didn’t look as sharp and the colors were much more washed out. I tried to do some basic calibration, but switching between the box and the cable card showed that the built in TV tuner was far superior in processing the picture for this TV than the cable box.


The next thing I noticed was the switching time to change channels. It was now much slower than using the TV’s internal tuner by 2-3 seconds.


I then decided to test the box on another set, this time my SONY 40 inch LCD. While the picture wasn’t as bad as what I noticed on the 52 inch screen, it still didn’t look as good as the internal tuner. I left the box on this TV for a couple of weeks to check out how the new SDV HD channels looked.


SDV in my area as of a month ago (Medina County) was a complete failure. When it didn't say "unavailable", it just pixilated a froze up. Some of my cable card channels were "lost" because of a head-end configuration screwup that caused some channles (non-SDV) to be un-provisisioned. It took them about a week to get it worked out including many phone calls and truck rolls.


When my first bill came in with the new box, they were charging me full price for the cable box, plus added an extra digital tear $5 line item that wasn't on my bill before. It was supposed to be the lower price of a cable card, but my bill was now $30 more than it was before. Needless to say we called, and they said we received the wrong box and it had to be swapped out for a new one at a TW office. We then took the box to the TW location 10 miles away to get it swapped out. They guy there said it was the correct box, that it was an error in the billing system and he would "fix" it. At this point we had spend 4+ hour on the phone trying to get the billing worked out, and now a wasted 1 hour trip to the TW office to swap a box that didn't need to be swapped. I told them to keep the box and to bring my bill back to what it was pre-cable box.


The last time I brought up my use of cable cards everyone here was so pro TW and that SDV was going to be the savior of HD video. I will keep my lower priced cable cards and skip this SDV "upgrade" for now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/16946641
> 
> 
> I have yet to have to pay for a cable card install; TW has never got it right the first time out yet. Twice they "forgot" to bring a card out, and another time they messed up my calibrated 52 inch Mitsubishi set by re-setting it to defaults. Each time I got a credit for the install. I have 3 cable cards total.
> 
> 
> In the mail TW offered a de-featured cable box for 1 year, at the same cost as a cable card for current cable card subscribers. I thought this would be a good time to see what I was missing with all these new SDV HD channels. When I was recently having a repair done due to channel lineups being lost on my cable card sets. I asked for one of these special boxes to be brought out so that I could test it with my current TV's and see how they integrated into my setup.
> 
> 
> After hooking up the set to the cable box to my Mitsubishi 52 LCD HDMI port, I immediately noticed that the picture didn't look as sharp and the colors were much more washed out. I tried to do some basic calibration, but switching between the box and the cable card showed that the built in TV tuner was far superior in processing the picture for this TV than the cable box.
> 
> 
> The next thing I noticed was the switching time to change channels. It was now much slower than using the TV's internal tuner by 2-3 seconds.
> 
> 
> I then decided to test the box on another set, this time my SONY 40 inch LCD. While the picture wasn't as bad as what I noticed on the 52 inch screen, it still didn't look as good as the internal tuner. I left the box on this TV for a couple of weeks to check out how the new SDV HD channels looked.
> 
> 
> SDV in my area as of a month ago (Medina County) was a complete failure. When it didn't say "unavailable", it just pixilated a froze up. Some of my cable card channels were "lost" because of a head-end configuration screwup that caused some channles (non-SDV) to be un-provisisioned. It took them about a week to get it worked out including many phone calls and truck rolls.
> 
> 
> When my first bill came in with the new box, they were charging me full price for the cable box, plus added an extra digital tear $5 line item that wasn't on my bill before. It was supposed to be the lower price of a cable card, but my bill was now $30 more than it was before. Needless to say we called, and they said we received the wrong box and it had to be swapped out for a new one at a TW office. We then took the box to the TW location 10 miles away to get it swapped out. They guy there said it was the correct box, that it was an error in the billing system and he would "fix" it. At this point we had spend 4+ hour on the phone trying to get the billing worked out, and now a wasted 1 hour trip to the TW office to swap a box that didn't need to be swapped. I told them to keep the box and to bring my bill back to what it was pre-cable box.
> 
> 
> The last time I brought up my use of cable cards everyone here was so pro TW and that SDV was going to be the savior of HD video. I will keep my lower priced cable cards and skip this SDV "upgrade" for now.



That was a story and a half. It seems that whenever a TW tech support person can't figure out the problem they say "wrong box." I think I wrote about the guy looking for 1080p once and the CSR told him he needed to upgrade his box. Funny. Not that it happened to you, just funny.


One downside to your decision to going back to cable cards is you are going to lose a tremendous amount of digital channels come 8/18. Hopefully they are channels you don't care about but I think you should be aware. You should have got a letter in the mail from TW. Even premium channels from HBO, Showtime, Starz, The Movie Channel and Cinemax will be affected this time out.


As far as SDV goes I'm not seeing people complaining about it on the TiVo threads. I've asked specifically about this and people seem happy with it so that leads me to believe that this problem is more or less exclusive to our area. Lucky us.


----------



## shooter21198

well more failure on TWC

ESPN and ESPN2 HD are black

same with ABC Family HD and maybe more


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/16949255
> 
> 
> well more failure on TWC
> 
> ESPN and ESPN2 HD are black
> 
> same with ABC Family HD and maybe more



Yep same over here. It's another massive SDV FAIL!!!!


----------



## hookbill

Message is up on TW customer service that they are having a digital channel outage and they are aware of their FAILed service.


----------



## nickdawg

I honestly don't care. I plugged the cable line into my TV to see if it works. The picture is fuzzy and analog, but it worked far better than SDV did. Haven't seen a "channel not available" message once.







I'll probably get rid of my cable box and get nothing to replace it. Cable card isn't worth it just to get what I can without the box anyway. Since almost all of the digital channels are going SDV, they wouldn't work anyway.


----------



## hookbill

Just for the record since people do look to see what we have to say about TW that particular outage was cleared up rather quickly. It lasted maybe an hour.


----------



## nickdawg

Good the outage ended. Now, let the *outrage* continue.


----------



## nickdawg

I don't but I found out about this link through a friend. There's a page called Time Warner Blows and it's rants about TWC's sh!tty service. If we have any Twitterers here they can add the horror stories from NE Hoio.

https://twitter.com/TimeWarnerBlows


----------



## Inundated

nickdawg, we really could have done without that profile picture. I took you off ignore some time ago, don't tempt me to put you back on!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16953486
> 
> 
> nickdawg, we really could have done without that profile picture. I took you off ignore some time ago, don't tempt me to put you back on!



x1 That's a bit much nickdawg, I almost said something about it myself.


----------



## toby10

That was a s-h-i-t-t-y thing to post. But I thought it was cute.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Take this for what it is worth...


I had a truck roll for my cable service in North Ridgeville over a week ago because my TiVoHD will not receive channel 435. Anyways, Mr. Cable Guy says that our area will not get anymore Hi-Def channels until December. The reason is because they have to do the Motorola STB swap out, and they cannot make SA STB's fast enough to replace them all in the field. If this is true than I'll be switching to DirecTV after summer is over.


----------



## infoman1

And yet another SDV outage last night and this morning in NEO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16964849
> 
> 
> And yet another SDV outage last night and this morning in NEO.



I haven't looked yet, but I will. Bummer when it happens on the week ends.


----------



## hookbill

Maybe it was a brief outage but everything is working on my side of town.


----------



## infoman1

I live in Youngstown/Warren area. All of them standard and HD are unavailable, press A to try again. So sick of this!!!!!


----------



## hookbill

Not sure what you mean by "standard" and HD channels, but I can tell you I'm not experiencing any problems in Bainbridge. I would suggest you call customer service and make them aware you are having problems because just mentioning it here isn't going to get it fixed.


I do sympathize it does happen far to often. Customer service may make you do the reset dance but until they get enough calls it won't be considered an "issue" so that's why it's imperative that you call them.


----------



## infoman1

By standard I mean Digital channels that are SDV on the digital tier but not HD. We did the box reset, got credit, and tech scheduled. Worthless as that will be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16965911
> 
> 
> By standard I mean Digital channels that are SDV on the digital tier but not HD. We did the box reset, got credit, and tech scheduled. Worthless as that will be.



Might not be worthless. You could have a signal problem, could be a problem at the hub. You gotta start somewhere.


Hey I'm not defending TW by the way I fully understand your frustration. Good luck. I just checked customer service line no mention of outages at this point.


----------



## infoman1

It's not a signal problem, it's all fine. In fact they now have a message up running with customer service. None of this is new. It happens very frequently. SDV is simply unreliable with TW. When it works it fine, which is far and in between. It will be wortless to send a tech. They need to send it to network level two or three support. This is ******** service!


----------



## hookbill

I was watching something I had recorded on USA last night. Don't quite remember what the show was now but it was so full of pixelation and sound drop offs it was hardly watchable. Hate to admit it but analog would have been better.


SDV sucks.


Edit: This was recorded when USA was still SDV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1*  /forum/post/16966101
> 
> 
> It's not a signal problem, it's all fine. *In fact they now have a message up running with customer service.* None of this is new. It happens very frequently. SDV is simply unreliable with TW. When it works it fine, which is far and in between. It will be wortless to send a tech. They need to send it to network level two or three support. This is ******** service!



I just checked customer service. No message when I called.


----------



## infoman1

Yep, I tend to agree with you. All this cash in HD flat panels and poor service. I am investigating a Direct TV switch. My service was so bad last month TW gave me a $55 credit!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16966143
> 
> 
> Yep, I tend to agree with you. All this cash in HD flat panels and poor service. I am investigating a Direct TV switch. My service was so bad last month TW gave me a $55 credit!



All the effen credit in the world doesn't make a difference. What we want is service. I don't mind paying so long as I get what I pay for.


Yeah, if you got one of their pathetic DVR's go for Direct TV. I would if I could.


----------



## infoman1

I couldn't agree with you more. Well I don;t know how TW can keep this scam going. Most people are dropping a "Franklin" plus per month. When people see the very poor level of service for this kind of coin, it's just plain common sense to say bye bye. I am not saying a dish service will be the end all be all, but my god it can't be any worse! I am in a pretty good position for satellite, so I will call for a site survey next week. I won;t boot them completely, I'll keep there roadrunner, since that is pretty solid.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16966156
> 
> 
> All the effen credit in the world doesn't make a difference. What we want is service. I don't mind paying so long as I get what I pay for.
> 
> 
> Yeah, if you got one of their pathetic DVR's go for Direct TV. I would if I could.



If I were you, I'd be getting estimates from tree removal companies. From how you describe your TV viewing, you sound like the perfect person for D*, especially if they had a Tivo option. I feel really bad for Tivo people and their problems with TWC. To spend that much money on a box only to not have it work because of the incompetence of an overpriced subscription TV service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16966691
> 
> 
> If I were you, I'd be getting estimates from tree removal companies. From how you describe your TV viewing, you sound like the perfect person for D*, especially if they had a Tivo option. I feel really bad for Tivo people and their problems with TWC. To spend that much money on a box only to not have it work because of the incompetence of an overpriced subscription TV service.



But it's so inconsistent, that's what I don't understand, i.e. I can put it on MLBnet and get perfect picture with no problems at all. Now the problem I mentioned with USA is the first time I've seen anything that bad, usually it's not perfect but it's quite watchable.


As far as trees go, I've got a wife nickdawg and I discussed that with her one time. I lost. That was before I bought my TiVo's. Had I have won I would have D*.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16966717
> 
> 
> As far as trees go, I've got a wife nickdawg and I discussed that with her one time. I lost. That was before I bought my TiVo's. Had I have won I would have D*.



Tell her you'd save money by going to D*. And you wouldn't be wasting money on crappy service that doesn't work. Plus I hear D* has QVC HD. Shopping in HD, and money saved on cable to spend!!


----------



## infoman1

Inconsistentcy perpetuated by stupid technical support robots. More than 24 hours have passed and still no channels, no explanation. Diagnostics show there is no SDV server entry. DON'T THEY HAVE NETWORK ENGINEERS or are they dumb as rock to.


----------



## nickdawg

They must have done something here. Today I decided to turn on CNN HD instead of watching CNN analog, and CNN HD actually worked. There wasn't a top and bottom of the hour picture breakup. Interesting...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16966717
> 
> 
> But it's so inconsistent, that's what I don't understand, i.e. I can put it on MLBnet and get perfect picture with no problems at all. Now the problem I mentioned with USA is the first time I've seen anything that bad, usually it's not perfect but it's quite watchable



It has to do with which frequency the channel is on. There are several frequencies used by the SDV pool channels. The thing I've noticed is if you tune to various channels with the diagnostic screen up, all the channels that have issues at a particular time are on the same frequency. And channels on another frequency have no problems at all. MLB channel must be on a solid working frequency and USA was on a frequency that has problems.


Here, my original problem with totally unwatchable programming and then the breakup every half hour lasting a minute was on channels that used 585.000MHz.


This is why SDV is such a giant turd dragon. And yes I blame the technology as a whole. With regular linear channels, like non-SDV channels, the problem was isolated to one or two channels on that frequency(usually HD are two per QAM) and it could be corrected easily and quickly because it is always on the same channels. But with SDV, frequencies change often, depending on when channels are tuned, so the problem jumps around to different channels and it's harder to find the problem.


----------



## infoman1

Interesting.. page 9 of SDV diagnostics shows Carousel Freq. as 585:256,573:256

Mini Carousel has not been read. SDV Filter Timeout


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16967988
> 
> 
> Interesting.. page 9 of SDV diagnostics shows Carousel Freq. as 585:256,573:256
> 
> Mini Carousel has not been read. SDV Filter Timeout



On the first SDV page there is a line that has Service GP:. It should have some numbers there. Mine says 34107. This is while I'm tuned to an SDV channel.


When I talk to my contact at TW she always has me checks this. Now I have no idea what the significance is about this area but think the number shows if you are properly connected. Check that and see if you have the same numbers as I do.


Now at this point we hope that Cathode Kid will come by and explain this area. Maybe he can advise you as what you need to do.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16967793
> 
> 
> But with SDV, frequencies change often, depending on when channels are tuned, so the problem jumps around to different channels and it's harder to find the problem.



Maybe we need to start an organized campaign to report SDV problems to TW in terms of "I can't receive SDV channels on 585.000 MHz"... The CSRs would originally give dumb looks while drool is wiped from their faces, but if enough calls like this are elevated to 2nd-tier support, maybe TW will take notice...


----------



## infoman1

My service group is 37157. I truely think it does have to do with not being able recieve a frequencie. When the carousel group changes frequency and it hits the one I can't recieve, it prohibits connection to the SDV server and takes everything out. No surely I couldn't possibly be the only SOB in my node with this problem? By the time I wait out a techie coming to house, the freq. will be wheeled to another and the problem will disapear. The carousel freq used was 573. prior to what I posted above.

Speaking with support this A.M. this was elevated to level 2 engineering. The visit scheduled for this Thursday is with an engineer. Hopefully they will be able resolve this issue.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16969154
> 
> 
> My service group is 37157. I truely think it does have to do with not being able recieve a frequencie. When the carousel group changes frequency and it hits the one I can't recieve, it prohibits connection to the SDV server and takes everything out. No surely I couldn't possibly be the only SOB in my node with this problem? By the time I wait out a techie coming to house, the freq. will be wheeled to another and the problem will disapear. The carousel freq used was 573. prior to what I posted above.
> *Speaking with support this A.M. this was elevated to level 2 engineering. The visit scheduled for this Thursday is with an engineer.* Hopefully they will be able resolve this issue.



Yeah but they are not coming out until Thursday? What if the problem resolves itself on Wednesday and Friday you're back in the same boat?


I've never heard of them sending an engineer out though so that might be why it's taking so long. Whatever the case is good luck. Check back here too from time to time to see if Cathode Kid has an answer for you. He knows the workings of TW pretty well, better then most of us do. Maybe he can speak on what's going on.


----------



## infoman1

I only can share what they tell me. Most likely this will need to go to a network level 3 specialist. It's beyond first line techs, and line level engineers. It all depends on where those SDV servers are deployed, some are at the hub. However, regardless anyone with any common sense will see that the boxes need and SDV server IP address to function. Thats there job to figure out why it's not getting it. Secondly, I am ever so curious if those problem is specifically related to me or the entire service group.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16969456
> 
> 
> I only can share what they tell me. Most likely this will need to go to a network level 3 specialist. It's beyond first line techs, and line level engineers. It all depends on where those SDV servers are deployed, some are at the hub. However, regardless anyone with any common sense will see that the boxes need and SDV server IP address to function. Thats there job to figure out why it's not getting it. Secondly, I am ever so curious if those problem is specifically related to me or the entire service group.



Yep, that's where my problem was too. At the hub only I wasn't as smart as you. What you are saying is accurate it needs an IP address or it definitely won't function. I would think if it is at the hub that other people would be affected too, correct? They fixed mine and gave me 4 days credit. Make sure they credit you for all those days you're out besides the credit they already gave you.


Sucks that you have to wait so long.


----------



## infoman1

One would logically assume if its a hub/router issue the entire group would be effected, and either people don't call it in, or they don't have digital cable. If it is specific to me, then it could be either a pole tap, or some other hardware malfunction attenuating that specific frequency prohibiting connection. I have also noticed the LSCP server is unreachable also, which indicates to me at least a network issue at the hub or beyond. I believe the lSCP protocol is used for tear down and setup of SDV streams. These issues don't require a 4 day wait, but rather a network level III at a console looking the network. They should be able to tell in an instant if it's a malfunction edge router. Sometimes I think they don't even know! LOL


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16968821
> 
> 
> Maybe we need to start an organized campaign to report SDV problems to TW in terms of "I can't receive SDV channels on 585.000 MHz"...



Didn't someone in here determine that 585.000 was getting interference from one of the Akron FM stations? 97.5 or 94.9, I think, some sort of harmonic thing.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/16970174
> 
> 
> Didn't someone in here determine that 585.000 was getting interference from one of the Akron FM stations? 97.5 or 94.9, I think, some sort of harmonic thing.



That would be me, and I'm still very suspicious this might be part of the problem. 585.000 is the sixth harmonic of 97.5 WONE. Given the high power of their signal and the strong possibility that multiple bad connections, unterminated drops, or just crappy runs exist in any given area, it wouldn't take much to introduce interference from the radio station into the cable network. There's not a whole lot of error correction headroom on digital signals, and HD is much pickier about signal quality. Add the fact that 585 MHz seems to be at the top of the pick-list for SDV, and stuff starts breaking.


I would think that the SDV equipment allows TW to specify what frequencies are selected in what order, and I'd hope that some TW engineer would recognize the potential problems with the 97.5/585.0 "thing", but who knows...


Now I'm no radio engineer, but I know a fair amount of RF theory... It's possible I'm completely wrong on this, but I'd love to hear what one of TW's RF engineers has to say about this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16973313
> 
> 
> That would be me, and I'm still very suspicious this might be part of the problem. 585.000 is the sixth harmonic of 97.5 WONE. Given the high power of their signal and the strong possibility that multiple bad connections, unterminated drops, or just crappy runs exist in any given area, it wouldn't take much to introduce interference from the radio station into the cable network. There's not a whole lot of error correction headroom on digital signals, and HD is much pickier about signal quality. Add the fact that 585 MHz seems to be at the top of the pick-list for SDV, and stuff starts breaking.
> 
> 
> I would think that the SDV equipment allows TW to specify what frequencies are selected in what order, and I'd hope that some TW engineer would recognize the potential problems with the 97.5/585.0 "thing", but who knows...
> 
> 
> Now I'm no radio engineer, but I know a fair amount of RF theory... It's possible I'm completely wrong on this, but I'd love to hear what one of TW's RF engineers has to say about this.



You know you guys are talking way over my head. This doesn't make sense to me but I'm going to take you at your word and accept that somehow an OTA radio station can affect cable SDV.


The person who does understand and ciukd explain if TW knows about it I've asked for a couple of times. CK where are you and no I don't mean Clark Kent?


----------



## infoman1

Well as an update I get from work today and viola! Cable TV once again. I checked the diagnostics and freq. 585 is still listed as the carousel frequency. I guess my theory about that didn't hold. I am still having the engineer out Thursday, but really this seems more and more like a hub/router issue that needed reset. Of course there is no way in hell I will every know with direct access to engineering. This has happened before, and I am certain it will happen again. What I will do since I have a long paper trail is get a direct contact # to a field supervisor if reocuurs (it will). At this pace we can play this game forever without real resolution.


----------



## Vchat20

I have to say though, and this may or may not be a good thing, is that with the recent problems the CSR's seem to have gotten a little more intelligent. Either that or I have been extremely lucky. The past couple times I have had to call in for an issue they've been fairly on the ball and aware of things rather than sending me through the whole 'reboot/replace the box' two-step.


This is another reason I advocate still calling CSR's to report this stuff. May be like pulling teeth sometimes, but if it's a more widespread outage it helps get them more aware of how far the outage covers and escalate it further as needed til it's all fixed.


----------



## infoman1

That would be great if the CSR's are local. There not! Your routed to a call center, sometimes offshore, and sometimes to a sub-contracted group hired by TW. It's nearly impossible here to get a local rep. I argued Sunday when I called. The rep couldn't seem to understand why my channel line up didn't match what she had. Guess what, she was in another state and would have NO CLUE of any local problem. What a screwed up system. I am sure there are directs but you as a consumer will never know them.


----------



## Vchat20

You must not be going through the right system. Every time I have called I get a local person and have even asked. Call the main 877 line and enter your billing number when asked and it should direct you to the right place.


----------



## nickdawg

Today affirms my position against TW's internet and phone. I've had no cable since 3PM. Luckily I now have a good OTA setup, which I've had reliable, stable picture on WKYC and WEWS all day. WOIO was breaking up during the heaviest weather, which was no surprise.


Time Warner: The Power of YOU*











*Except in severe weather.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16976979
> 
> 
> You must not be going through the right system. Every time I have called I get a local person and have even asked. Call the main 877 line and enter your billing number when asked and it should direct you to the right place.



I've called the 877 line and got routed to out of country people. I know this because when I explain what's going on and say I need a card hit they say just a minute I need to transfer you to customer service. Whoa, isn't this customer service? Yes, but we can't send you a hit. And the accent is unmistakeable, you know you are calling out of country.


Also I've been told by TW reps that they are in different call centers. They may still know what's happening in the area, that doesn't mean they are local. They were when it was Adelphia and at the start of TW.


----------



## infoman1

Yes thats 1-877-772-2253. If your in the Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown area, there call centers my friend. It's cost saving big business. It's cheaper to farm it out to call centers paying min. wage, than pay someone $17 bucks an hour and benefits to robotically answer field calls. I know people that work for such a group that handles TW calls. There scripted, given the ole two step reboot, and set up a tech. If you call in the day, don't select tech support on the phone que, select option 3, get a rep, they will transfer you to someone locally. The time you call is everything. If your calling for RoadRunner, it's routed to Akron which has the the ability escalate matters very quickly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16976658
> 
> 
> Well as an update I get from work today and viola! Cable TV once again. I checked the diagnostics and freq. 585 is still listed as the carousel frequency. I guess my theory about that didn't hold. I am still having the engineer out Thursday, but really this seems more and more like a hub/router issue that needed reset. Of course there is no way in hell I will every know with direct access to engineering. This has happened before, and I am certain it will happen again. What I will do since I have a long paper trail is get a direct contact # to a field supervisor if reocuurs (it will). At this pace we can play this game forever without real resolution.



Just a word of warning if your problem is now resolved TW will cancel your appointment without any warning to you. That happened to me with a service call for my internet where they found an area outage same day I called.


I strongly suggest calling the 877 number. You should get a message informing you that you have an appointment. If you don't and you still want them to come out, speak to them.


One other thing and you probably know this already but if you continue to get the run around it's [email protected] . I guarantee you'll get a manager call that way.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16977140
> 
> 
> Yes thats 1-877-772-2253. If your in the Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown area, there call centers my friend. It's cost saving big business. It's cheaper to farm it out to call centers paying min. wage, than pay someone $17 bucks an hour and benefits to robotically answer field calls. I know people that work for such a group that handles TW calls. There scripted, given the ole two step reboot, and set up a tech. If you call in the day, don't select tech support on the phone que, select option 3, get a rep, they will transfer you to someone locally. The time you call is everything. If your calling for RoadRunner, it's routed to Akron which has the the ability escalate matters very quickly.



Ha ha, they don't get paid no 17.00 an hour. More like 10.00 an hour but you're still correct, it's cheaper to farm it out. Still when you call in you may very well get an actual TW rep it just kind of depends.


----------



## shooter21198

95% of the time when I am forced to call Time Warner I get an actual Time Warner rep. the other 5% of the time was when my internet was out and I was talking to god knows who


----------



## nickdawg

I've never had to talk to an "out of the country" representative. Usually it's just some moron at the local TWC call center.


----------



## nickdawg

You might like this:

*Cable TV Consumer Hotline available*


Staff takes complaints about service, quality, pricing


By Betty Lin-Fisher

Beacon Journal business writer


Published on Sunday, Aug 09, 2009


Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.


We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .


I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.


Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.


A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.


However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.


If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''


The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.


Finfrock said that because her staff is small three people it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.


For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.


Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.


Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.


Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.


PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.


''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.


If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re

solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.


If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.


''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.


Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.


''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.


Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.


Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.


The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.


Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.


Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:


Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.


Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).


Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.


Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.


Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.


Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.


The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.

Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at

330-996-3724 or [email protected]

thebeaconjournal.com.


Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.


We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .


I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.


Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.


A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.


However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.


If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''


The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.


Finfrock said that because her staff is small three people it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.


For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.


Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.


Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.


Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.


PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.


''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.


If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re

solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.


If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.


''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.


Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.


''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.


Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.


Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.


The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.


Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.


Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:


Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.


Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).


Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.


Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.


Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.


Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.


The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.

Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at

330-996-3724 or [email protected]

thebeaconjournal.com.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16973618
> 
> 
> You know you guys are talking way over my head. This doesn't make sense to me but I'm going to take you at your word and accept that somehow an OTA radio station can affect cable SDV.
> 
> 
> The person who does understand and ciukd explain if TW knows about it I've asked for a couple of times. CK where are you and no I don't mean Clark Kent?



The 6th harmonic of WONE will land around that frequency, but the 6th harmonic of any frequency is going to be way, way down in power level from the fundamental frequency. This would have to be some really bad ingress for this to cause interference, but if it is, it's usually easy to fix once the source of the ingress is located. Harmonics are simply multiples of the original frequency. A transmitter will put out it's main frequency, and it will also spit out harmonics of the fundamentak frequency at a level that decreases with each successive harmonic frequency.


A "carousel" is the controller's list of boxes that it has to send instructions to. The carousel will contain a list of all of the boxes in it's scope, and it rolls through the entire list one by one, and when it's done with the list, it starts over again. A mini-carousel is a "short list" of boxes that need immediate hits that can't wait for their turn to come around on the main carousel. After a box has aged off the short list, it goes back on the regular carousel. Both are sent on the same frequency, and that frequency stays put.


Does that help?


Oh and BTW, I bear absolutely no resemblance to Clark Kent!


----------



## wd8kct




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16977962
> 
> 
> This would have to be some really bad ingress for this to cause interference, but if it is, it's usually easy to fix once the source of the ingress is located.



They had a terrible time with FMs getting into analog channels 95-97 in the midband... ham radio and pagers would trash channels 18-19... where you have ingress you should also have egress... I used to be able to listen to ESPN on my ham radio the Akron system was so leaky... according to their ads, with most of the system now fiber, that would narrow it down to somewhere after optical to RF conversion...


BTW last check the program guide clock on WVIZ was right on the money... for a time they were gaining a few minutes a day... -Ed


----------



## hookbill

Now that was hilarious!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/16978568
> 
> 
> BTW last check the program guide clock on WVIZ was right on the money... for a time they were gaining a few minutes a day... -Ed



Thanks. It should be referenced to a NIST source now. Gotta love those Cesium fountain clocks .


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/16978568
> 
> 
> They had a terrible time with FMs getting into analog channels 95-97 in the midband... ham radio and pagers would trash channels 18-19... where you have ingress you should also have egress...



On more than one occasion I've gone into someone's house to run a new cable drop or something, only to find that somebody plugged the coax running up to what's left of an old outdoor TV antenna into their cable splitter. One guy told me he thought it would help improve his cable reception...


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16978650
> 
> 
> Gotta love those Cesium fountain clocks .



I need to question the sanity of the guys who designed that thing. (Thanks for the link - very interesting.) If some dude started talking to me about bouncing around cesium atoms with lasers to build a better stopwatch, I'd suggest he be confined for observation...


----------



## nickdawg

I think 585.000MHz is totally FUBAR ans should no longer be used. I just tuned into FOX News and had a Try Again message. I pulled up the diagnostics screen and noticed that the channel was on 585.000MHz. Then I pressed A and the picture appeared. I checked the frequency again and it "jumped" to 567.000MHz. It seems like the entire 585 band is dead. I tried flipping through channels in the area where the SDV channels are. They all were 567 or 573. Looks like my pressing A temporarily dismissed 585, until it comes up again. I have to wonder what would happen if this were a recording starting. I think that's where missed recordings come from.


Every single problem I have ever had is on 585.000MHz.


585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz

585.000MHz


(just in case a TWC troll is reading this topic, I want them to get that through their thick, caveman skulls!







)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/16978568
> 
> 
> They had a terrible time with FMs getting into analog channels 95-97 in the midband... ham radio and pagers would trash channels 18-19... where you have ingress you should also have egress... I used to be able to listen to ESPN on my ham radio the Akron system was so leaky... according to their ads, with most of the system now fiber, that would narrow it down to somewhere after optical to RF conversion...
> 
> 
> BTW last check the program guide clock on WVIZ was right on the money... for a time they were gaining a few minutes a day... -Ed











*Dat vuss a goot vunn!!!*


----------



## hookbill

I Don't understand if 585 MHz is used for SDV then what was FOX 8 doing on there? It should be assigned a permanent frequency, it's not an SDV channel.


And just to clear things up were you tuning WJW, or WJW HD?


----------



## Vchat20

I think he was talking about the Fox News Network HD channel, not the local Fox affiliate.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16977268
> 
> 
> You might like this:
> 
> *Cable TV Consumer Hotline available*
> 
> 
> Staff takes complaints about service, quality, pricing
> 
> 
> By Betty Lin-Fisher
> 
> Beacon Journal business writer
> 
> 
> Published on Sunday, Aug 09, 2009
> 
> 
> Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.
> 
> 
> We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .
> 
> 
> I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.
> 
> 
> Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.
> 
> 
> A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.
> 
> 
> However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.
> 
> 
> If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''
> 
> 
> The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.
> 
> *Finfrock said that because her staff is small three people it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.*
> 
> 
> For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.
> 
> 
> Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.
> 
> 
> Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.
> 
> 
> PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.
> 
> 
> ''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.
> 
> *If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re
> 
> solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.*
> 
> 
> If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.
> 
> 
> ''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.
> 
> *Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.
> 
> 
> ''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.*
> 
> 
> Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.
> 
> 
> The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.
> 
> 
> Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.
> 
> 
> Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:
> 
> 
> Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.
> 
> 
> Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).
> 
> 
> Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.
> 
> 
> Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.
> 
> 
> Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.
> 
> 
> The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.
> 
> Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at
> 
> 330-996-3724 or [email protected]
> 
> thebeaconjournal.com.
> 
> 
> Last month, fellow columnist Bob Dyer and I wrote separately about issues we'd had with Time Warner Cable. We heard from many of you who had your own pricing and service issues with the cable company.
> 
> 
> We also heard from the state's Department of Commerce, which in 2007 established a Cable TV ConsumerHotline .
> 
> 
> I either forgot that they had such a hot line or never heard about it, so let me explain what it is.
> 
> 
> Teri Finfrock, who oversees the department's video service authorization section that runs the hot line, said her staff is taking comments regarding cable TV service.
> 
> 
> A 2007 state law made the department the one-stop shop for cable TV franchises and also for AT&T's U-Verse service. In addition to having the power to authorize those service agreements, the department can take customer complaints.
> 
> 
> However, the department does not have authority over satellite TV companies. For those problems, you need to call the Ohio Attorney General's office at 800-282-0515.
> 
> 
> If you're having any type of problem with your cable or U-Verse service, you can call the hot line at 800-686-7826. If you'd rather write your complaint, you can get a complaint form at http://com.ohio.gov and look under the middle column for ''Cable TV Consumer Hotline.''
> 
> 
> The folks you'll reach work at the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which does not regulate cable companies, but does regulate utilities such as traditional telephone, natural gas and electricity companies.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said that because her staff is small three people it worked well to have the PUCO take the phone calls, sort through them based on jurisdiction and then pass them on to her staff. Her office will return calls the next day.
> 
> 
> For example, if a caller is having a problem with the phone service on a cable television line, that would be the jurisdiction of the PUCO.
> 
> 
> Time Warner's digital phone service is not a traditional land-line service, but the company has agreed to operate under the state's telephone rules.
> 
> 
> Similarly, if you're having issues with AT&T's U-verse, you can call the hot line for television issues and the PUCO would handle phone issues with AT&T.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said the folks who answer the call will know whether they can address the problem immediately or if it needs to be forwarded to her cable hot-line staff. If, for instance, you have an Internet or phone problem but it has to do with the pricing or service of your cable, then her group will handle it.
> 
> 
> PUCO Investigation and Audit Division Chief Lisa Colosimo, said it makes sense for her staff to take the calls.
> 
> 
> ''There was a lot of synergy for us to do it. We get cable calls all the time anyway,'' she said.
> 
> 
> If you're having a problem, you should always first try to re
> 
> solve the issue with the company yourself, Finfrock said.
> 
> 
> If it becomes necessary for the hot-line folks to get involved, they'll send the complaint to the company and it's considered an ''escalated complaint and handled by someone at the company with the authority to address the issues,'' she said.
> 
> 
> ''We see our role as being a facilitator of communications,'' she said.
> 
> 
> Time Warner spokesman Travis Reynolds said any customer issues are handled by the customer-service group.
> 
> 
> ''Similar to when customers contact our customer-service department via phone or the Internet, customer-service issues submitted to us from the Ohio Department of Commerce go to our customer-service group for resolution. It's a very similar process,'' he said.
> 
> 
> Since 2007, the hot line has taken 3,900 complaints. It does not break down complaints by company.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said the hot line is ready to take complaints regarding pricing, service quality and customer service. Sometimes, people just call to vent and Finfrock said her staff has to ask if there's something specific they can resolve.
> 
> 
> The department does not have authority over normal rate increases, so they can't take a complaint if you're upset that your yearly bill is going up, Finfrock said. However, Finfrock said the hot line could have helped in my instance, in which I was told by one cable representative that my renewal price would go up and could not be negotiated, but when I called to cancel I was offered a lower price. The hot line might have helped although at that point, I was mentally ready to cancel.
> 
> 
> Dyer's issue was billing, and the hot line could have helped, too.
> 
> 
> Here are the things under law that the cable and U-verse folks have to provide:
> 
> 
> Restore cable service within 72 hours after the customer reports a problem unless the problem was caused by a natural disaster.
> 
> 
> Credit the customer's account for a service interruption (depending on the cause and duration).
> 
> 
> Provide 30 days advance written notice before removing a channel.
> 
> 
> Provide 30 days advance written notice before a rate increase.
> 
> 
> Provide 10 days written notice before disconnecting service.
> 
> 
> Finfrock said the hot line can help determine whether you're due credits based on other circumstances, too, such as not having an understanding of prior practices of the company.
> 
> 
> The department also has the ability to issue an administrative penalty if the operator violates any regulations and fails to resolve the problem.
> 
> Betty Lin-Fisher can be reached at
> 
> 330-996-3724 or [email protected]
> 
> thebeaconjournal.com.



I don't know. After reading through this mess which seems to have repeated information in it a couple of times I've come to the conclusions the A. The actual people who handle this are extremely understaff and B. TW is going to handle it the same way as if the customer called it in himself.


I suppose I would have to try it to see if it actually works, but I still think when your back is against the wall and you are entirely pissed off there is nothing better then an email to Mr. Fry. 2 times I've done that and got complete satisfaction.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16979822
> 
> 
> I think he was talking about the Fox News Network HD channel, not the local Fox affiliate.



Oh, OK that makes more sense. Well, not really nickdawg has some strong feelings about what he calls Faux News.


----------



## hookbill

Speaking about FOX 8 News OMW reported recently that there is no longer a Sky Fox, they've been fired so that's one less HD helicopter in the area. Matter of fact the only helicopter in the area is, (gulp) WOIO. Nothing better then having Rick Able up there talking about what idiots people are on the ground.










Also has anyone taken a look at WJW's web page? My goodness they have completely stripped down that highly developed My FOX Cleveland page to nothing more then another channels web page. Make no mistake about it these new owners are cheap with a capital C.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16979822
> 
> 
> I think he was talking about the Fox News Network HD channel, not the local Fox affiliate.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16979839
> 
> 
> Oh, OK that makes more sense. Well, not really nickdawg has some strong feelings about what he calls Faux News.



Yep, it was FNC. I read a topic on HDTV Programming about the show at 3AM premiering in HD and I wanted to see it.


Plus sometimes I like to turn that channel on for a laugh. It should be branded as a comedy channel. That's how I felt when I watched 'Glen Beck' last weekend.







So crazy it's funny.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16979851
> 
> 
> Speaking about FOX 8 News OMW reported recently that there is no longer a Sky Fox, they've been fired so that's one less HD helicopter in the area. Matter of fact the only helicopter in the area is, (gulp) WOIO. Nothing better then having Rick Able up there talking about what idiots people are on the ground.



Oh great, the screaming hilljack wearing the prison suit is the only air traffic reporter left. I had no clue they still had a chopper, whenever I turn on that channel they have the reporter in studio.



> Quote:
> Also has anyone taken a look at WJW's web page? My goodness they have completely stripped down that highly developed My FOX Cleveland page to nothing more then another channels web page. Make no mistake about it these new owners are cheap with a capital C.



That's what happens when you go from network O&O to a company called Local TV LLC.







Another wannabe RayCHEAP. Somedays I feel like we have three Raycheap stations in town: Raycom's own WOIO, Local TV's WJW and Gannett's WKYC.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16977962
> 
> 
> A "carousel" is the controller's list of boxes that it has to send instructions to. The carousel will contain a list of all of the boxes in it's scope, and it rolls through the entire list one by one, and when it's done with the list, it starts over again. A mini-carousel is a "short list" of boxes that need immediate hits that can't wait for their turn to come around on the main carousel. After a box has aged off the short list, it goes back on the regular carousel. Both are sent on the same frequency, and that frequency stays put.
> 
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> 
> Oh and BTW, I bear absolutely no resemblance to Clark Kent!



Thanks Cathode for the information. Rumor has it your the expert so perhaps you can shed some light.


From time to time both of my SA STB's lose there SDV server IP address. Nothing, and no amount of rebooting will restore it. It will go days on end in that state and that ultimately you can't watch any of the channel on SDV. is also coupled with the error "Section Filter Timeout". (Thought this was related to DAVIC and MPEG 2) which usually means the software has stopped filtering. Is it a result of lack of SDV server registration or a software error?


Regardless this looks like a network routing issue.


Your thoughts Cathode?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16983352
> 
> 
> Thanks Cathode for the information. Rumor has it your the expert so perhaps you can shed some light.
> 
> 
> From time to time both of my SA STB's lose there SDV server IP address. Nothing, and no amount of rebooting will restore it. It will go days on end in that state and that ultimately you can't watch any of the channel on SDV. is also coupled with the error "Section Filter Timeout". (Thought this was related to DAVIC and MPEG 2) which usually means the software has stopped filtering. Is it a result of lack of SDV server registration or a software error?
> 
> 
> Regardless this looks like a network routing issue.
> 
> 
> Your thoughts Cathode?



Infoman,


what are your upstream and downstream RF levels? Go to page 1 of the diags and note the FDC and RDC levels. Also look for the BFS QAM level (I forget what page that's on). If they're within acceptable limits the level will show in white. Yellow means marginal and an orangey-red means out of tolerance. The BFS QAM is where the carousel lives, and the other ones are lower bandwidth signalling channels.


----------



## amtrak23

Ok, service is about a month old and the PQ is terrible. Everything seems to have a ring around it...if there are letters on the screen you will often be able to see it 3x. We have the basic cable package, no HD. One LCD, one plasma...both looked fine at our old place (cox cable), and OTA HD looked great on both. DVD's look great on both...


CSR said we probably need to upgrade to an HD package and mentioned that we could try getting the HD box. We have the Explorer 8000 now, would the Explorer 8000HD make any difference? Installer said either was fine since we weren't getting an HD package.


----------



## Vchat20

If your sets are HD capable I do not know why you haven't went for the HD service already. TWC doesn't charge anything extra for the HD tier or the HD box if you already subscribe to a digital package. May or may not fix the original issue, but the PQ WILL improve FWIW. The SD channels on an HD set do look absolutely horrid but I don't know what you mean precisely by seeing rings around everything.


I would stay away from the Explorer 8000 series boxes though. They are well known to be fairly low grade in the PQ department. Though if you swap for an HD box you should be getting a new 8300HDC depending on your area.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtra23* /forum/post/16985564
> 
> 
> Ok, service is about a month old and the PQ is terrible. Everything seems to have a ring around it...if there are letters on the screen you will often be able to see it 3x. We have the basic cable package, no HD. One LCD, one plasma...both looked fine at our old place (cox cable), and OTA HD looked great on both. DVD's look great on both...
> 
> 
> CSR said we probably need to upgrade to an HD package and mentioned that we could try getting the HD box. We have the Explorer 8000 now, would the Explorer 8000HD make any difference? Installer said either was fine since we weren't getting an HD package.



Considering TW doesn't charge extra for non-premium HD channels, I'd definitely go with an HD box. You're watching standard-def on an HD set, which is kind of like watching a baseball game from three miles away with a pair of binoculars with lots of fog in the area.


Don't trust the installer - they know how to hook things up, not what the various packages provide. An HD box should give you access to the HD versions of any available channels you currently receive.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtra23* /forum/post/16985564
> 
> 
> Ok, service is about a month old and the PQ is terrible. Everything seems to have a ring around it...if there are letters on the screen you will often be able to see it 3x. We have the basic cable package, no HD. One LCD, one plasma...both looked fine at our old place (cox cable), and OTA HD looked great on both. DVD's look great on both...
> 
> 
> CSR said we probably need to upgrade to an HD package and mentioned that we could try getting the HD box. We have the Explorer 8000 now, would the Explorer 8000HD make any difference? Installer said either was fine since we weren't getting an HD package.



The rings/seeing letters 3x sounds like ghosting, which means you might have a loose wire or bare wire causing interference/ That's a problem because the signal going into your TV is analog from the cable without the box. Fixing that should improve the picture, but the analog SD picture still won't be the same as having the HDTV channels.


If you already subscribe to Basic Service + Expanded Basic, adding a cable box will give you the corresponding HD equivalent of any channel in Expanded Basic. If you get USA and CNN on your current level of service, adding a HDTV box will give you USA HD and CNN HD. There is no additional charge for HDTV channels, unless you want the HDTV Tier(470-473), a premium service like HBO or an extra tier like the Digital Tier, which includes channels like National Geographic, Versus and ESPNU/ESPN News.


A new 8300HDC box will make a world of difference. I've found that the older boxes do not perform as well as the newer boxes. Especially the 8000 series. Most of those are at least four years or five years old. The newer boxes have a faster UI and have the benefit of not being refurbished.


If you decide to get the HD box, have someone come out for a service call. Just adding a HD box won't make the ghosting problems on the analog channels go away. Not everything that is on the analog tier(under 100) is carried in HD, so you'll still be watching many of those channels. have the installer check the line to the TV, any splitters in the house and the drop where the line comes in. If the line is damaged, the connectors are loose or there are little metal "fuzzies" by the connectors on the end of the line, there could be ingress. When analog OTA was still on, I remember some of the channels having problems when I had a bad wire. Even with the problems fixed, channels 70 and 74 still had ghosting issues.


The problem you describe definitely sounds like something is wrong. If I were to flip though my channels now, there are none that have rings around the picture and text is not ghosted.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16984887
> 
> 
> Infoman,
> 
> 
> what are your upstream and downstream RF levels? Go to page 1 of the diags and note the FDC and RDC levels. Also look for the BFS QAM level (I forget what page that's on). If they're within acceptable limits the level will show in white. Yellow means marginal and an orangey-red means out of tolerance. The BFS QAM is where the carousel lives, and the other ones are lower bandwidth signalling channels.



It's on Page 3 of the 8240HDC:

FDC

Freq: 75.00Mhz

Davic: Ready

Level +2db

S/N 34db


RDC

Freq. 23.00Mhz

Power 40db

Delay 0 secs


Not sure what BFS QAM is. This looks like the tuned channel.

Page 4

Status Locked

Freq 771.000Mhz

qam 256

lEVEL 13db

S/N 35db

Secs 1954

Corr Bytes 9

Uncor Bytes 0

EQ Gain 1


These were obtained in the diags menu. Hold power till off/on blinks and hit power one more time. To get to the SDV diags hold select till mail icon blinks, hit chan down x 2. There is nothing in any of these diagnostic pages that report the tuning frequency of the table or BFS QAM freq, only the carousol frequency which is 585:256 and last frequency used 573:256. The screens and I guess this depends on the firmware is quite different than the legacy 8300 boxes. I am in Mahoning/Trumbull county so are division and what hardware and firmware being used may be different. No when it doesn't work this is what you get:


SDV authorized: true

SDV Server registration : state pending

SDV service group ID 0

SDV last initialization time: not available

SDV server ip and port : not avaliable


----------



## amtrak23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16985724
> 
> 
> If your sets are HD capable I do not know why you haven't went for the HD service already. TWC doesn't charge anything extra for the HD tier or the HD box if you already subscribe to a digital package. May or may not fix the original issue, but the PQ WILL improve FWIW. The SD channels on an HD set do look absolutely horrid but I don't know what you mean precisely by seeing rings around everything.
> 
> 
> I would stay away from the Explorer 8000 series boxes though. They are well known to be fairly low grade in the PQ department. Though if you swap for an HD box you should be getting a new 8300HDC depending on your area.



Thanks for the help guys.


I swapped out the 2 SD boxes and got an 8300HDC and a 4250HDC. Not having the sluggish menu anymore is great. SD channels still have ghosting and look to have the same PQ, maybe a tad better. If I compare channel 3 to 403 the ghosting appears to be about the same. It is most noticeable long the edges of the picture, where the black bars are, or when the picture is a light color. The separation between the picture and black area is not very clean. Are these channels of lesser quality than the other HD channels or is this PQ about as good as they will get?


Now if I go to channel 451 (SciHD) it looks great and no ghosting at all.


It's amazing how big of a difference there is between my Samsung 42" B450 Plasma and the Vizio 32" VW32l LCD. I have never really compared them until today when setting up the new box and anything with motion on the LCD introduces a lot of noise/artifacts.


When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtra23* /forum/post/16988692
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?



Try setting the box to PASSTHROUGH as well, allowing your TV to process (upscale/deinterlace) the picture to it's native resolution.

This may not be any better, just depends. But your TV's should have much better video processing than in these cheap cable boxes.


Using PASSTHROUGH on my two plasmas makes a noticeable PQ improvement, particularly on SD content, than the cable boxes.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtra23* /forum/post/16988692
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.
> 
> 
> 
> When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?



It doesn't make a difference. Your TV will convert to 720p anyway.


I have an SA 8300 and I don't see any ghosting at all on my 28" LCD. On my other two HD televisions I have TiVo's and quite honestly pq wise it looks good to me considering that the SA 8300 is generally considered an inferior box in general.


BTW I also had an SA 8000 and really despite what others say the only difference is the SA 8300 has a HDMI output. And it's smaller.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtra23* /forum/post/16988692
> 
> 
> 
> When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?



Either one of those should be fine. Just don't use 480i or 480p. Both of those formats look awful on a high resolution display. Check what output formats are enabled in the Settings menu. Sometimes the boxes come from TWC set to 480i as a default. If the box is outputting 480i on the SD channels that might be why the PQ is bad on those channels.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16986088
> 
> 
> It's on Page 3 of the 8240HDC:
> 
> FDC
> 
> Freq: 75.00Mhz
> 
> Davic: Ready
> 
> Level +2db
> 
> S/N 34db
> 
> 
> RDC
> 
> Freq. 23.00Mhz
> 
> Power 40db
> 
> Delay 0 secs
> 
> 
> Not sure what BFS QAM is. This looks like the tuned channel.
> 
> Page 4
> 
> Status Locked
> 
> Freq 771.000Mhz
> 
> qam 256
> 
> lEVEL 13db
> 
> S/N 35db
> 
> Secs 1954
> 
> Corr Bytes 9
> 
> Uncor Bytes 0
> 
> EQ Gain 1
> 
> 
> (snippage)
> 
> 
> SDV authorized: true
> 
> SDV Server registration : state pending
> 
> SDV service group ID 0
> 
> SDV last initialization time: not available
> 
> SDV server ip and port : not avaliable



Thanks, Infoman. Your FDC and RDC (forward and Return Data Carriers) look ok, but what stands out to me is that a QAM that's sitting way at the top edge of the band is coming in a little hot at +13dbmv. Industry specs call for a range of +15 to -12dbmv for 256 qams. Do you happen to have a 2-way splitter sitting around the house? If you insert that in the path you'll intruduce about 3.2db of attenuation, which will bring that 771mhz carrier down to +9.8dbmv, a little closer to the middle of the range. See if that improves things, including the corrected bytes.


Also try holding down the yellow A key on your remote for a little more than 10 seconds. This forces the box to reacquire it's service group. Then check the diags to see if you have a real number in the service group.


Good luck and let us know how you make out!


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/16988692
> 
> 
> When setting up he boxes I put both on 720p, instead of 1080i, since both tvs are 720p. I couldn't notice any different with 1080i so I'm assuming either is correct?



If you don't notice any difference, then it doesn't matter. In any case, 720p plasma sets actually convert whatever signal you send to them into their real native resolution, which is actually 768 horizontal rows of pixels, NOT 720. So whatever resolution you set your cable box to, it gets converted yet again in the plasma TV's circuitry. http://www.*******************.com/p...efinition.html 


P.S. I have a Toshiba 42" plasma ("720p") and I notice no difference on HD or SD signals when my cable box is set to 720p versus 1080i.


----------



## infoman1

Thanks Cathode. It's hot because there on an Antronix FRA1-1510 drop amp. I did split it and the channel levels decreased. I still am convinced this problem is at network level and nothing related to signal as I have stated. Generally when a client cannot obtain an IP address from a server over a private ethernet network as TW SDV is, 172.29.244.48:23000 it certainly becomes network administrators problem. The HD stations and analog cable always worked, but not the SDV. And to be frank, unless this gets to a level III engineer it will never be resolved in the field. I am not a cable expert, but I am well experienced in network topology. I keep you posted of there findings.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16990381
> 
> 
> Thanks Cathode. It's hot because there on an Antronix FRA1-1510 drop amp. I did split it and the channel levels decreased. I still am convinced this problem is at network level and nothing related to signal as I have stated. Generally when a client cannot obtain an IP address from a server over a private ethernet network as TW SDV is, 172.29.244.48:23000 it certainly becomes network administrators problem. The HD stations and analog cable always worked, but not the SDV. And to be frank, unless this gets to a level III engineer it will never be resolved in the field. I am not a cable expert, but I am well experienced in network topology. I keep you posted of there findings.



Ah, that explains the 'warm' signals - thanks.


One of the first rules of thumb in these situations is to qualify both the forward and return path. In the case of an RF based network, the integrity of the carriers is a Layer 1 issue just like it is in ethernet topologies. If the hub can't hear the return signal, the box will never register with the SDV server and thus you'll never get an IP. I believe the upstream modulation profile is QPSK, which is a lot more rugged (although slower) than QAM, but even so it's still susceptible to ingress.


I hear you about network issues, Infoman - I'm only looking to rule out all items that you might have some control over.


CK


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/16988692
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.
> 
> 
> I swapped out the 2 SD boxes and got an 8300HDC and a 4250HDC. Not having the sluggish menu anymore is great. SD channels still have ghosting and look to have the same PQ, maybe a tad better. If I compare channel 3 to 403 the ghosting appears to be about the same. It is most noticeable long the edges of the picture, where the black bars are, or when the picture is a light color. The separation between the picture and black area is not very clean. Are these channels of lesser quality than the other HD channels or is this PQ about as good as they will get?
> 
> 
> Now if I go to channel 451 (SciHD) it looks great and no ghosting at all.



One thing hasn't been asked yet that I see notably missing: When you swapped out the boxes for HD models, did you add either HDMI or component video cables between the box and your sets, and did you tell the sets to use the different input? When you said 3 and 403 look about the same, that sets off an alarm in my head.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/16991854
> 
> 
> One thing hasn't been asked yet that I see notably missing: When you swapped out the boxes for HD models, did you add either HDMI or component video cables between the box and your sets, and did you tell the sets to use the different input? When you said 3 and 403 look about the same, that sets off an alarm in my head.



I will bet he's on component but that really shouldn't make a difference. The only true advantage that HDMI has over component is the ability to carry picture and sound with a single wire.

.

I also want to thank everybody who felt the need to confirm what I had said about the tv converting the signal.







apparently one answer was not sufficient.


If you want to add 480i or 480p try it, its what works best for you.


All HDTV convert whatever the hd signal is to their native format. This is not exclusive to plasma.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16988966
> 
> 
> It doesn't make a difference. Your TV will convert to 720p anyway.



Your first statement I agree with. Your second one isn't exactly correct with respect to the OP's plasma set, because all so-called 720p plasma sets have 765 lines horizontally, not 720. So these sets will convert even 720p signals. How well that works will depend on the plasma set. (I don't know anything about the OP's LCD set, so my comments don't apply to that TV).


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16988797
> 
> 
> Using PASSTHROUGH on my two plasmas makes a noticeable PQ improvement, particularly on SD content, than the cable boxes.



The only downside to this may be the delay in displaying a picture when you go to a cable channel that is transmitting at a different resolution than the last channel you viewed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/16993503
> 
> 
> The only downside to this may be the delay in displaying a picture when you go to a cable channel that is transmitting at a different resolution than the last channel you viewed.



Very true.










But everyone gets so caught up in the "everything must be upconverted prior to reaching the TV" and it's really quite silly.


These cheap, old, recycled cable boxes have no better video processing (upscaling, deinterlacing, etc..) than a $40 WalMart upconverting DVD player. If such a lowly video processor does a better (or equal) job as your HDTV than you have either a very old or a very cheap HDTV.










I'll trust the Panny-Sony-Samsung (pick your brand) video processing over Scientific Atlanta's or Motorola's any day for overall PQ at any input resolution.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16994371
> 
> 
> Very true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But everyone gets so caught up in the "everything must be upconverted prior to reaching the TV" and it's really quite silly.
> 
> 
> These cheap, old, recycled cable boxes have no better video processing (upscaling, deinterlacing, etc..) than a $40 WalMart upconverting DVD player. If such a lowly video processor does a better (or equal) job as your HDTV than you have either a very old or a very cheap HDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll trust the Panny-Sony-Samsung (pick your brand) video processing over Scientific Atlanta's or Motorola's any day for overall PQ at any input resolution.



Wiser words, IMHO, have never been spoken.










Oh you forgot TiVo.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16994388
> 
> 
> Wiser words, IMHO, have never been spoken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you forgot TiVo.



Ha!










I have no personal experience with Tivo but I've only heard good things about it's build quality.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16992285
> 
> 
> I will bet he's on component but that really shouldn't make a difference. The only true advantage that HDMI has over component is the ability to carry picture and sound with a single wire.
> 
> .
> 
> I also want to thank everybody who felt the need to confirm what I had said about the tv converting the signal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apparently one answer was not sufficient.
> 
> 
> If you want to add 480i or 480p try it, its what works best for you.
> 
> 
> All HDTV convert whatever the hd signal is to their native format. This is not exclusive to plasma.



If he's seeing ghosting on 403, I'm beginning to wonder if his box is connected to his TV via coax cable! That used to be the "standard" way installers would hook them up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16995367
> 
> 
> If he's seeing ghosting on 403, I'm beginning to wonder if his box is connected to his TV via coax cable! That used to be the "standard" way installers would hook them up.



Yikes, that would definitely explain it.


He said he had an SA 8000, and to the best of my knowledge that didn't come in a HD and SD model. Presuming he had SD television and DVR previously they would have hooked it up with a coax cable.


Guess we won't know unless he pops back in here.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, the SA8000 DOES have an HD model. My aunt has one on her HD LCD. Though I don't know whether it's the default setup or not but that is the one I found the first time I came over after it was installed that it was locked at 480i. But it is an HD box and looks identical to the SD 8000 aside from having the expected addition of Component and, in this case, DVI ports.


To the tv scaling discussion above: pbarach is true to a point on one thing: 99.999% of 720p sets are not native 720p but rather usually something like 1366x768 or 1024x768 (non-square pixels) in resolution so they are slightly higher than 720p. It really is a huge debate that will never be won by any other side. It just depends on your taste. Personally I have mine set to output all resolutions to my '720p' set (Panny TH-42PX80U, 1024x768 native. Internal image processor scales everything up to 1080p first and then brings it down to 1024x768). But for some people the channel change delays may be a bit of an annoyance.


My advice is to try both ways and see what you prefer best both in channel change delay, PQ, and so-on and then choose for yourself.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16995906
> 
> 
> Actually, the SA8000 DOES have an HD model. My aunt has one on her HD LCD. Though I don't know whether it's the default setup or not but that is the one I found the first time I came over after it was installed that it was locked at 480i. But it is an HD box and looks identical to the SD 8000 aside from having the expected addition of Component and, in this case, DVI ports.



OK I think we have a communication problem. I was saying that I didn't think there was a *SD* version of the SA 8000. I've never seen it and common sense tells me that the model number would have been different. Apparently you have actually seen a SD version?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16995906
> 
> 
> My advice is to try both ways and see what you prefer best both in channel change delay, PQ, and so-on and then choose for yourself.



My point exactly. Whatever works best for you.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16995970
> 
> 
> OK I think we have a communication problem. I was saying that I didn't think there was a *SD* version of the SA 8000. I've never seen it and common sense tells me that the model number would have been different. Apparently you have actually seen a SD version?



Ahh. My bad. And yes, there's both SD and HD versions. Model numbers just like the other Explorer models. ie: SA8000 for SD and SA8000HD for HD. We used to have the SD model for some years here before we switched to HD over a year ago and swapped it out for the SA8300HD. And my Aunt has the 8000HD model. Both are identical cosmetically and run MDN as legacy hardware. Only difference I know of is the HD model has added Component, DVI, and Firewire ports and the obligatory storage upgrade to 160GB while the SD version has the common 80GB.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16995990
> 
> 
> Ahh. My bad. And yes, there's both SD and HD versions. Model numbers just like the other Explorer models. ie: SA8000 for SD and SA8000HD for HD. We used to have the SD model for some years here before we switched to HD over a year ago and swapped it out for the SA8300HD. And my Aunt has the 8000HD model. Both are identical cosmetically and run MDN as legacy hardware. Only difference I know of is the HD model has added Component, DVI, and Firewire ports and the obligatory storage upgrade to 160GB while the SD version has the common 80GB.



Well if they sent him home with a SA 8300 and didn't give him component cables and he turned in a SA 8000 that would make perfect sense in explaining his ghosting problems. Drone behind the counter probably didn't even realize the SA 8000 was not a HD model.


----------



## Vchat20

That is certainly a possibility. Especially if it is the MDN 8300HD (I don't know if they are still sending out the 8300HDC's new in box these days or have those dwindled down to sending out returns? The new in box ones always come stock with a decent length and thick set of component cables in the box). Really an easy check for him though if he reads this: Check what the cables are between the box and his tv and where they are connected and also check the display resolution panel in navigator and see what options are checked. Report back and we can get a better idea.


----------



## nickdawg

I knew it would eventually come to an end. After being happy that 585MHz wasn't being used, it returned last night. I had a "channel not available" channel, so I checked the frequency. It was 585.000MHz. I pressed A, hoping the entire 585 frequency would be dismissed again. That didn't happen. I had picture on a 585.000MHz channel. It was close to the half hour so I decided to stay and watch. The picture breaking up every half hour doesn't happen anymore. Now I have frequent blackouts. I blacked out during CNN today several times. About 30 seconds of frozen screen, then the picture came back. It's so damn annoying.


----------



## nickdawg

RE: Video Cables: When you pick up a HD box at TWC, they give you the component video cables. They don't say what you are supposed to do with them, but they do give them to you.


----------



## Vchat20

nick: You should fully realise by now when it comes to CSR's that none of this is absolute.







For all we know the CSR at the counter just went '*hands box* GET OUT I HAVE A QUOTA TO REACH! NEXT!'. Give the boy a chance to respond to our inquiries then we can sort out the cause for his issues. Because certainly he should not be seeing any ghosting on 403 unless he has something set up wrong like feeding his tv via coax (even using composite, S-Video, or Component would be hard to get ghosting from)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/16996132
> 
> 
> nick: You should fully realise by now when it comes to CSR's that none of this is absolute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For all we know the CSR at the counter just went '*hands box* GET OUT I HAVE A QUOTA TO REACH! NEXT!'. Give the boy a chance to respond to our inquiries then we can sort out the cause for his issues. Because certainly he should not be seeing any ghosting on 403 unless he has something set up wrong like feeding his tv via coax (even using composite, S-Video, or Component would be hard to get ghosting from)



That's what else they do. They give you a RF cable too. So I could see someone using that. Even one of the times a TWC tech installed a box on my TV, he connected the component cables then proceeded to set my TV to channel 4. If I were to put my TV on channel 4 right now the SD and HD channels would look the same because it all looks like crap.


I'll bet the person in question has their TV on channel 4, that's why there is ghosting and bad PQ.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/16991186
> 
> 
> Ah, that explains the 'warm' signals - thanks.
> 
> 
> One of the first rules of thumb in these situations is to qualify both the forward and return path. In the case of an RF based network, the integrity of the carriers is a Layer 1 issue just like it is in ethernet topologies. If the hub can't hear the return signal, the box will never register with the SDV server and thus you'll never get an IP. I believe the upstream modulation profile is QPSK, which is a lot more rugged (although slower) than QAM, but even so it's still susceptible to ingress.
> 
> 
> I hear you about network issues, Infoman - I'm only looking to rule out all items that you might have some control over.
> 
> 
> CK



Well here is the update after the tech guy came. There is nothing wrong with the amp, wiring, signal strength, splitters or other. Confirmed it is indeed a network issue which he will write up and send up the ladder. Now I will take that with a grain of salt.


What is percurious about this SDV setup from what I was told is the fact your neighbor may have service but you may not. From what was explained it's related to the service group which is assigned and thats not by node or neighborhood. You could be part of the same SDV group as someone living miles away if that makes any sense. For that matter my second box could work and the other not!


Can someone confirm this? It certainly would generate a lot of uneeded services calls in multiple areas during failure, one would assume.

But I suppose its no different than any other networking arrangement where there is multiple clients, a gateway, an assigned group and a server. I also would assume the network is monitored in realtime to diagnose and repair these types of bothersome quirks. The problem is no one knows about them and they are not fixed in a timely fashion.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16996402
> 
> 
> Well here is the update after the tech guy came. There is nothing wrong with the amp, wiring, signal strength, splitters or other. Confirmed it is indeed a network issue which he will write up and send up the ladder. Now I will take that with a grain of salt.
> 
> 
> What is percurious about this SDV setup from what I was told is the fact your neighbor may have service but you may not. From what was explained it's related to the service group which is assigned and thats not by node or neighborhood. You could be part of the same SDV group as someone living miles away if that makes any sense. For that matter my second box could work and the other not!
> 
> 
> Can someone confirm this? It certainly would generate a lot of uneeded services calls in multiple areas during failure, one would assume.
> 
> But I suppose its no different than any other networking arrangement where there is multiple clients, a gateway, an assigned group and a server. I also would assume the network is monitored in realtime to diagnose and repair these types of bothersome quirks. The problem is no one knows about them and they are not fixed in a timely fashion.



Infoman, have you tried the trick with the "A" key yet? This could reveal something useful whether it works or not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16996105
> 
> 
> RE: Video Cables: When you pick up a HD box at TWC, they give you the component video cables. They don't say what you are supposed to do with them, but they do give them to you.



Nickdawg and Vchat20:


When I turned in my STB for the SA 8300 I only received the box. Nothing else was discussed or offered. It was pulled off a shelf with a bunch if SA8000 HD which at first I was told was all they had but she "found" one.


Now I think they do have them in the box but they are distributing them only to certain areas such as the old Comcast area. So I think its entirely possible that the OP did not get component cables.


----------



## nickdawg

F TWC and their stupid HD channels. I recorded a movie on F/X HD tonight and out of the three hours(8-11pm), I had a 2:35 recorded program. The end of the 2:35 was the end of the movie. That means the picture must have been freezing during the recording and those parts are subtracted.


So thank you very much TWC!! That's why I have a DVR: so I can record stuff and watch shows with part of the content missing. Too bad I didn't know about this before the same show aired at 11pm, SO I COULD HAVE TAPED IT ON THE *ANALOG* CHANNEL OF F/X!! Instead I have a jacked up movie. So much for having these movie channels in HD.


----------



## infoman1

Yes, but there is no indication it works on the 8240. After pressing for 15secs and releasing it simply displays the access menu. Don't know if it works or not. Next time it goes goofy I'll try it. From my end there is truely nothing more I can do. My assumption is there are problems with there system, and at this rate there going to lose more customers than keep them!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16998004
> 
> 
> F TWC and their stupid HD channels. I recorded a movie on F/X HD tonight and out of the three hours(8-11pm), I had a 2:35 recorded program. The end of the 2:35 was the end of the movie. *That means the picture must have been freezing during the recording and those parts are subtracted.*



Possible but I doubt it. I'll bet it just stopped recording on you and that's why you have a partial.


Certainly with the troubles we've experienced with SDV one might think that but more then likely the pieces missing are on the back end. And I think you are experiencing what I've been saying since day one: That the SA 8300 is an unreliable pos and does partial recordings.


Just because you never experienced it before doesn't mean you're not experiencing it now. If you still got it take a look, I'll bet the last 25 minutes is missing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16998091
> 
> 
> Yes, but there is no indication it works on the *8240*. After pressing for 15secs and releasing it simply displays the access menu. Don't know if it works or not. Next time it goes goofy I'll try it. From my end there is truely nothing more I can do. My assumption is there are problems with there system, and at this rate there going to lose more customers than keep them!



8240? What the heck are you talking about? No such DVR unless that's the new one from Samsung.


It should be displaying IIRC a service group number, it forces to connect. If it's not doing that something is definitely wrong.


I'll let CK come back and take it from there. They had me do the push the A key thing once also and I didn't see anything happen but I believe it did show service group number.


----------



## Vchat20

The 8240 is essentially the 8300HDC just the more specific model number. Don't ask me why on the semantics, just the way it is. 8240 and 8300HDC are interchangeable.


----------



## amtrak23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/16988797
> 
> 
> Using PASSTHROUGH on my two plasmas makes a noticeable PQ improvement, particularly on SD content, than the cable boxes.



No noticeable PQ improvement, nor did it slow down channel changing. Will have to play with it a little more though.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/16995367
> 
> 
> If he's seeing ghosting on 403, I'm beginning to wonder if his box is connected to his TV via coax cable! That used to be the "standard" way installers would hook them up.



The installer did originally make a custom fit coax for each HDTV. I tried tightening them, using a new cable, jiggling cable..etc., because I remembered from the old days that I had to jiggle every now and again to get a good signal.


When I swapped out boxes I specifically asked for the 8300HDC with HDMI, and for component cables, because I don't have any extra HDMI's laying around currently. She supplied me with two new sets of components. So I'm running components for now until I find a good deal on some HDMI's.


Both boxes are used and abused...scratches, dings, dents, etc...lol. Remotes looked brand new.


The rep started of kinda mean, but I got her to warm up a little. I was the only person in there so it seemed like I was bugging her at first. She also gave me instructions on how to set the format on the boxes.


The 480s have been unchecked, so I only have 1080i and 720p as an option in the menu now. Have been playing back and fourth to see if I can notice any difference...nothing yet.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/16996175
> 
> 
> That's what else they do. They give you a RF cable too. So I could see someone using that. Even one of the times a TWC tech installed a box on my TV, he connected the component cables then proceeded to set my TV to channel 4. If I were to put my TV on channel 4 right now the SD and HD channels would look the same because it all looks like crap.
> 
> 
> I'll bet the person in question has their TV on channel 4, that's why there is ghosting and bad PQ.



TV is set to "component" source...If I change to channel 4 I get snow.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/17001071
> 
> 
> So I'm running components for now until I find a good deal on some HDMI's.



For all your cable needs it's www.monoprice.com . You won't find better prices for HDMI cables.


However having said that I will say again that I doubt you will see much if any difference between HDMI and component. It does reduce the amount of cables you need to use though.


I can't believe they actually hooked up a HD television with coaxial cable!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16998491
> 
> 
> Possible but I doubt it. I'll bet it just stopped recording on you and that's why you have a partial.
> 
> 
> Certainly with the troubles we've experienced with SDV one might think that but more then likely the pieces missing are on the back end. And I think you are experiencing what I've been saying since day one: That the SA 8300 is an unreliable pos and does partial recordings.
> 
> 
> Just because you never experienced it before doesn't mean you're not experiencing it now. If you still got it take a look, I'll bet the last 25 minutes is missing.



No. I looked at the end, at 2:34 the credits and the network advertising crap started. The film ended 25 minutes early with blank space left on the bar. I've seen partial recordings before, like you described. Those cut off right in the middle of the show. This is definitely something different. Something related to the evil SDV.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/16998507
> 
> 
> 8240? What the heck are you talking about? No such DVR unless that's the new one from Samsung.
> 
> 
> It should be displaying IIRC a service group number, it forces to connect. If it's not doing that something is definitely wrong.
> 
> 
> I'll let CK come back and take it from there. They had me do the push the A key thing once also and I didn't see anything happen but I believe it did show service group number.



The Explorer 8240HDC with separable M-Card and is a current product being distributed by TW. The 8300HDC is the same except it has the front panel aux video connections.


As far as displaying IIRC (don't know what that is) the diagnostic screens with the firmware it is running (and it is current) are different than the legacy 8300HD version of the box. The holding "A" key down with current firmware in this division doesn't work. Diagnostics are obtained by pressing and holding the power key till the on/off blinks, then another push. This is true even with the legacy 8300HD boxes running TW software. This is the way our division is here and it is NEO. As far as service group, whats listed currently 37515 in both the Diagnostic Menu and the SDV menu. (Accessed by holding select on the remote, then channel down twice.)


I have already concluded something is wrong. The SDV manager component is what is responsible for managing the service group and sending along the IP address of the server. It also manages users leaving or tuning to another station, carousel slots, bandwidth reallocation, etc. With that said it remains a network level problem with either hardware malfunction or mis-configured parameters. Not knowing TW network topology I couldn't tell you if there are several servers, or a centralized main somewhere. It's truely IPTV in a nutshell.


----------



## amtrak23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17001115
> 
> 
> For all your cable needs it's www.monoprice.com . You won't find better prices for HDMI cables.
> 
> 
> However having said that I will say again that I doubt you will see much if any difference between HDMI and component. It does reduce the amount of cables you need to use though.
> 
> 
> I can't believe they actually hooked up a HD television with coaxial cable!



Thanks for reminding me of monoprice...


Yea, after thinking about it for awhile I kinda figured coax was wrong. I called in and inquired as to why they didn't give us HD boxes and who I should bill the 19.99 installation charge to since I have to uninstall the SD boxes and re-install the HD boxes. The guy on the phone chuckled and opened a ticket for a manager of some sort to call back. He said I would get a call in 24hrs...no call as of yet...48 hours later.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/17001295
> 
> 
> Thanks for reminding of monoprice...
> 
> 
> Yea, after thinking about it for awhile I kinda figured coax was wrong. I called in and inquired as to why they didn't give us HD boxes and who I should bill the 19.99 installation charge to since I have to uninstall the SD boxes and re-install the HD boxes. The guy on the phone chuckled and opened a ticket for a manager of some sort to call back. He said I would get a call in 24hrs...no call as of yet...48 hours later.



Two things you can do. You can email them and probably get a better response, VChat20 has the email address, I don't but you can also get it at the TW Site. Or if you're really pissed off and tired of getting jerked around you can email [email protected] . That's the President of TW NEO and I guarantee you will get a call back from a manager.


There shouldn't be any need for a call back really, the CSR rightfully should have refund your install charge. What idiots.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17001165
> 
> 
> No. I looked at the end, at 2:34 the credits and the network advertising crap started. The film ended 25 minutes early with blank space left on the bar. I've seen partial recordings before, like you described. Those cut off right in the middle of the show. This is definitely something different. Something related to the evil SDV.



That's exactly what I'm talking about. The last part of the show didn't get recorded and that's how all my partials were with the SA 8300.


You probably are right and it's SDV. I've had two shows on my TiVo do partial recordings, both on USA and I was stunned because, well,l I have a TiVo and that crap just doesn't happen.










I can't recall when those shows were recorded but it was probably in June. I have not had any partials since.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17001431
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I'm talking about. The last part of the show didn't get recorded and that's how all my partials were with the SA 8300.
> 
> 
> You probably are right and it's SDV. I've had two shows on my TiVo do partial recordings, both on USA and I was stunned because, well,l I have a TiVo and that crap just doesn't happen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't recall when those shows were recorded but it was probably in June. I have not had any partials since.



One possible cause of incomplete recordings is the STB is polling. If there is no activity from the remote control for a predetermined amount time, and the box is polled, it will release the SDV channel back into the pool freeing up that bandwidth. Splat!!! goes the recording! You can check in the diagnostics the next time/date the box will be polled. Apparently there isn't a workaround, or more like the developers were not smart enough to distinquish between a DVR recording or just holding a channel. As an example some folks leave the STB box on all the time which would tie up a slot. If 100 users did it, you would soon see "channel not available" If it's tuned to an SDV channel for a long period of time; lets say overnight. The next time the TV is turned on you will get a floating blue TW box on the screen with the time. You have officially been polled. This obviously is something that will need attention, since the purpose of a DVR is unattended recording.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, recordings should be bypassing the 'idle timeout' on SDV from what has been posted over in the Navigator thread. The box will report back to the SDV server as channels are tuned exactly what it is being tuned for be it live viewing, unattended recordings, etc..


I think it would be a MAJOR oversight even for TWC to leave that bug in there for the box to rescind the channel during a recording just because the box went idle.


----------



## infoman1

It wouldn't be the first oversight! What I have personally noticed is when the STB power is "off" it will complete a lengthy recording. If it is on, it gets polled and the recording chokes. IMHO this is a software glitch. I guess the next question is: What is the idle timeout set to?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17002130
> 
> 
> One possible cause of incomplete recordings is the STB is polling. If there is no activity from the remote control for a predetermined amount time, and the box is polled, it will release the SDV channel back into the pool freeing up that bandwidth. Splat!!! goes the recording! You can check in the diagnostics the next time/date the box will be polled. Apparently there isn't a workaround, or more like the developers were not smart enough to distinquish between a DVR recording or just holding a channel. As an example some folks leave the STB box on all the time which would tie up a slot. If 100 users did it, you would soon see "channel not available" If it's tuned to an SDV channel for a long period of time; lets say overnight. The next time the TV is turned on you will get a floating blue TW box on the screen with the time. You have officially been polled. This obviously is something that will need attention, since the purpose of a DVR is unattended recording.



Just in case you are not aware, TiVos don't have an off switch and therefore if you do leave it on a SDV channel it will constantly be on.


I even leave it on MLB extra innings when games are not being shown and it doesn't get this blue screen you describe. I have seen it go to a grey screen and I know that SDV does that because a channel up and a channel down brings it right back. But that very rarely happens. The fact that it doesn't happen very often makes me wonder how this SDV stuff really works.


Sometimes and mostly on CNN HD I see the "are you still watching" message. But I don't see that often.


----------



## infoman1

Your correct hookbill, but now where talking two different pieces of hardware and software. Is that TIVO using a tuning adapter? They may just got it right with TA. I just checked, my next poll time is 11:36PM tonight. I set up a recording for 11:30PM and will check to see if it's working correctly leaving the STB powered.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17002252
> 
> 
> Your correct hookbill, but now where talking two different pieces of hardware and software. Is that TIVO using a tuning adapter? They may just got it right with TA. I just checked, my next poll time is 11:36PM tonight. I set up a recording for 11:30PM and will check to see if it's working correctly leaving the STB powered.



Yes got to have T.A. or no SDV. What's interesting about the T.A. Is it has the exact same diagnostic menu as the SA 8300. I have no idea how that works with TiVo in regards to "checking in" with a SDV channel. The tuner adapter stays on constantly as well.


----------



## infoman1

Thats pretty interested, but I know little about the TA. I have TW's DVR and it has been a while since a recording has choked. Anyway that 11:36PM time I quoted is GMT so that moves my test back to 8:30PM EST. Interesting I checked my other HD box, an Explorer 4250HDC and it lists the exact same poll time. It appears that polling time frame is set at the SDV manager and may not be related to remote inactivity. Switching channels has no effect of change to the poll time. (unless there is some invisiable watchdog timer) Whats odd is it would have no idea if your really watching or not. It may just a random event to clear channels if there is no user intravention with the pop up. When recording it should be programmed with some sort of flag indicating recorded content. Only the developer knows for sure....


----------



## hookbill

I kind of thought it might be on some kind of a polling device. Remember when I said I caught those messages on CNN HD? I noticed that they were about the same time of day, I would say around 4:00 pm.


Looks like SDV isn't as sophisticated as I thought. Well I guess we all realize that now.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/16998091
> 
> 
> Yes, but there is no indication it works on the 8240. After pressing for 15secs and releasing it simply displays the access menu. Don't know if it works or not. Next time it goes goofy I'll try it. From my end there is truely nothing more I can do. My assumption is there are problems with there system, and at this rate there going to lose more customers than keep them!



The way to determine whether it's successful is to go to the SDV diags pages and see if there's a number (other than 0) in the Service Group field.


----------



## infoman1

Seems to always have the 37515 in that field which may be appropriate for my region, and hub ID.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17002209
> 
> 
> Just in case you are not aware, TiVos don't have an off switch and therefore if you do leave it on a SDV channel it will constantly be on.
> 
> 
> I even leave it on MLB extra innings when games are not being shown and it doesn't get this blue screen you describe. I have seen it go to a grey screen and I know that SDV does that because a channel up and a channel down brings it right back. But that very rarely happens. The fact that it doesn't happen very often makes me wonder how this SDV stuff really works.
> 
> 
> Sometimes and mostly on CNN HD I see the "are you still watching" message. But I don't see that often.



Tito doesn't have an on/off switch? Seriously? Even the lowest grade cable STB does. That must be bad for the hard drive. SA recommends turning off the box when the TV is turned off to cut down on hard drive wear.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17002571
> 
> 
> Tito doesn't have an on/off switch? Seriously? Even the lowest grade cable STB does. That must be bad for the hard drive. SA recommends turning off the box when the TV is turned off to cut down on hard drive wear.



I thought this had been discussed before but maybe I'm thinking of the TiVo S3 thread. Anyway the hard drives made in today DVRs do not need to shut down in fact they are built to be on 24/7. I know I read somewhere that on the SA 8300 the hard drive will slow down in early morning hours if left on. This is not necessary nor beneficial with TiVo.


Now I know you're thinking that can't be right but trust me its the way it works. Perhaps Vchat20 or someone else can be more specific as to how this works. I can't provide any specific details. Strand because I could have sworn I read that in this thread.


----------



## infoman1

Well I can tell you the Western Digital Drive in the 8300 is nothing special. WD1600AAJB retails for 50 bucks. Its no different than any other drive WD makes and they all have a MTBF rate. 24/7 might get ya 3 years before it poofs. What is reason there is no power switch?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17002732
> 
> 
> Well I can tell you the Western Digital Drive in the 8300 is nothing special. WD1600AAJB retails for 50 bucks. Its no different than any other drive WD makes and they all have a MTBF rate. 24/7 might get ya 3 years before it poofs. What is reason there is no power switch?



TiVo does have a stand by mode but it is my understanding that hard drive activity continues. When you take it off stand by the timer bar will still have an hour of recorded programming. I've never tried it myself so I'm going on other peoples info. TiVo has never had a true off switch. As far as the hard drive goes I don't believe there is anything special about it. I've had my S3 for 3 years next month and its working fine. The only thing I do to help it out is elevate the unit so it stays cool. The air vents are on the bottom of the unit.


I know that I read the explanation for hard drive wear either in this thread or another.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17002571
> 
> 
> That must be bad for the hard drive. SA recommends turning off the box when the TV is turned off to cut down on hard drive wear.



Actually, SA recommends turning off the box because saying "just leave it on" would tick off the environmentalist wackos. (Nothing wrong with being an environmentalist, but some take it a bit too far...)


After years of experience with hundreds of hard drives, most running 24/7, some on/off for business hours, I've had WAY fewer problems with drives that run 24/7.


----------



## nickdawg

Interesting... I'm gonna keep shutting off the box, in case that "3 year hard drive" is true. Just to let my feelings about Tito be known(since I usually hold back







) I think there should be a power off button. I think it would suck to pay so much for a box, only to have it fail in a few years. At least with TWC the entire box can be replaced. Only downside is you might get a refurbished box or one of those sh-tty new Samsung boxes. Doesn't bother me much because I could do just fine with a box that doesn't record. I recorded a movie on Thursday and that was the first thing I recorded in a month. Don't plan on recording anything again soon based on my experience with that recording. Sick of dealing with partial recordings.


----------



## mnowlin

There's little to no difference between Tivo's suspend feature and hitting the power button on an SA box, other than the power button is a little easier than going through the steps on the Tivo remote. Both power down a chunk (not all) of the internal electronics and stop the hard drive, and both power up the drive under various conditions - recording shows, receiving software or program guide updates, etc.


I leave my SA8300 and Tivo on all the time. The Tivo is so quiet, it's hard to tell when the drive stop/start (both internal and external). I often hear the SA HD stop/start on a regular basis - not sure what the pattern is...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17003364
> 
> 
> Actually, SA recommends turning off the box because saying "just leave it on" would tick off the environmentalist wackos. (Nothing wrong with being an environmentalist, but some take it a bit too far...)
> 
> 
> After years of experience with hundreds of hard drives, most running 24/7, some on/off for business hours, I've had WAY fewer problems with drives that run 24/7.



I have to agree with this completely. Anyone giving any bunk like this about drives dying a short death from continuous use needs to really examine use cycles outside worst case scenario 'guesses'. I even have drives here that have been in semi-24/7 use that are nearly a decade old and are still going strong. And some of those have been fairly well abused.


You also have to remember that these drives in every one of these DVR's whether it be Tivo's, SA's, Motorolas, or Samsungs, are all made to be run in a DVR environment so they are made to handle 24/7 use for years in a rough CE-focused environment. Here's the excerpt of one of Western Digital's DVR focused disks:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by * http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=280&Language=en * /forum/post/0
> 
> *Long-Term Reliability* - With a MTBF of 1 million hours, these drives are designed to last in high temperature always-on streaming digital audio/video environments such as PVR/DVR, DVR recorders and surveillance video recorders.
> *Quiet* - Noise levels have been minimized to less than one sone* - virtually below the threshold of human hearing.
> *Low Power Consumption* - WD AV drives deliver best-in-class low power consumption for reduced system power requirements and increased reliability.
> 
> Note: 3.3V SATA power is not available in this product
> *Compatible* - Tested for compatibility in a broad range of AV products including set top boxes, DVD recorders, and mainstream surveillance systems.
> *SilkStream* - Optimized for smooth, continuous digital video playback of up to twelve simultaneous HD streams**. SilkStream is compatible with the ATA streaming command set so CE customers can use standard streaming management and error recovery options.
> *IntelliSeek* - Calculates optimum seek speeds to lower power consumption, noise and vibration. View demo >
> *Ramp Load* - Parks the recording heads off the disk surface during spin up, spin down and when the drive is off. This ensures the recording head never touches the disk surface resulting in improved long term reliability due to less head wear, and improved non-operational shock tolerance.
> *Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL)* - The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications.
> 
> * A sone is a subjective unit of loudness as perceived by a person with normal hearing.
> 
> ** Assumes Host Transfer Block size of 2 MB per stream.



I want to emphasize the *always-on* reference at the top there too.


The only case where I would expect a drive to fail in a short amount of time if it is intentionally abused in a physical fashion (not giving the DVR enough airflow causing operating temps to skyrocket, drop-kicking it, dragging it behind your car *ahem* hookdawg







)


I have only really had three of many, MANY drives fail me over the years. One was a circa '00 IBM Deskstar and destined to fail on it's own but lasted MUCH longer than I expected it to under continuous use, another was a circa '96 Quantum drive that probably failed more due to being in extended storage of a number of years and brought back into service, and then a 120GB 2.5" Seagate which was mostly due to heat in a poorly designed laptop (operating temps regularly hitting 60C+ and running nearly 24/7 for probably near a year of service). Beyond those cases, I have nearly a dozen here of various vintages that are still kicking with no sign of any impending death and running on a near 24/7 basis. And these are just your standard off-the-shelf desktop use drives.


To be quite honest, I'd expect MORE wear out of letting the box regularly spin down the drive when it goes into sleep mode over just letting it run constantly.


(I would have used the Maxtor Quickview drives for reference since they are actually the primary choice of drives for these SA boxes, but I can no longer find the product page on the Maxtor site for them.)


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17003731
> 
> 
> I have to agree with this completely. Anyone giving any bunk like this about drives dying a short death from continuous use needs to really examine use cycles outside worst case scenario 'guesses'. I even have drives here that have been in semi-24/7 use that are nearly a decade old and are still going strong. And some of those have been fairly well abused.
> 
> 
> You also have to remember that these drives in every one of these DVR's whether it be Tivo's, SA's, Motorolas, or Samsungs, are all made to be run in a DVR environment so they are made to handle 24/7 use for years in a rough CE-focused environment. Here's the excerpt of one of Western Digital's DVR focused disks:
> 
> 
> I want to emphasize the *always-on* reference at the top there too.
> 
> 
> The only case where I would expect a drive to fail in a short amount of time if it is intentionally abused in a physical fashion (not giving the DVR enough airflow causing operating temps to skyrocket, drop-kicking it, dragging it behind your car *ahem* hookdawg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> I have only really had three of many, MANY drives fail me over the years. One was a circa '00 IBM Deskstar and destined to fail on it's own but lasted MUCH longer than I expected it to under continuous use, another was a circa '96 Quantum drive that probably failed more due to being in extended storage of a number of years and brought back into service, and then a 120GB 2.5" Seagate which was mostly due to heat in a poorly designed laptop (operating temps regularly hitting 60C+ and running nearly 24/7 for probably near a year of service). Beyond those cases, I have nearly a dozen here of various vintages that are still kicking with no sign of any impending death and running on a near 24/7 basis. And these are just your standard off-the-shelf desktop use drives.
> 
> 
> To be quite honest, I'd expect MORE wear out of letting the box regularly spin down the drive when it goes into sleep mode over just letting it run constantly.
> 
> 
> (I would have used the Maxtor Quickview drives for reference since they are actually the primary choice of drives for these SA boxes, but I can no longer find the product page on the Maxtor site for them.)



In theory they should last a long time. 1 million hours is more of a marketing gimmick than reality. (You do the math) In DVR's and similar devices you can expect 3 - 5 years.

TW's DVR's boxes come back in droves. 1 - 2 years tops, and most with failed disk. Just ask any TW insider. And Tivo is no different. The HD technology has become better but not that good. The biggest killer of drives is *heat*, not constant operation. Heat drys out the bearings prematurely. I have never had a data drive fail in 20 years, but I have had 3 of them go over the years in the DVR.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17003765
> 
> 
> In theory they should last a long time. 1 million hours is more of a marketing gimmick than reality. (You do the math) In DVR's and similar devices you can expect 3 - 5 years.
> 
> TW's DVR's boxes come back in droves. 1 - 2 years tops, and most with failed disk. Just ask any TW insider. *And Tivo is no different*. The HD technology has become better but not that good. The biggest killer of drives is *heat*, not constant operation. Heat drys out the bearings prematurely. I have never had a data drive fail in 20 years, but I have had 3 of them go over the years in the DVR.




You say TiVo is no different? I think you should look here and get back to me on that.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17003970
> 
> 
> You say TiVo is no different? I think you should look here and get back to me on that.



Perhaps I should clarify. In terms of hard drive reliability there is zero difference. I have seen Tivo HD failure at the 1 and 3 year point. Beyond that point consumers replace the entire unit usually attributed to technology change.


As far as the feature set, flexibility and stability, Tivo is far superior to any cable company branded service. Lets not forget DVR was born to directly compete with TIVO technology as was Mystro, and the cable companies are winning!


In the end you really have to run the numbers and determine what works best for you. Is it more economical to just pay the monthly cable rental fee, which covers all failures at 100% or invest in TIVO, pay a monthly or upfront lifetime fee which does not cover failure. With an expected lifespan of 5 years which is typical before you'll replace the Tivo, replace a drive or two, or the technology changes it may not be worth the cost and effort. It's cheaper to use the cable co. dvr box. Enter SDV and now your paying another $5 month for a tuning adapter, and that cost is likely to increase over time. The cable co's are going to get there share one way or another!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17004239
> 
> 
> In the end you really have to run the numbers and determine what works best for you. Is it more economical to just pay the monthly cable rental fee, which covers all failures at 100% or invest in TIVO, pay a monthly or upfront lifetime fee which does not cover failure. With an expected lifespan of 5 years which is typical before you'll replace the Tivo, replace a drive or two, or the technology changes it may not be worth the cost and effort. It's cheaper to use the cable co. dvr box. Enter SDV and now your paying another $5 month for a tuning adapter, and that cost is likely to increase over time. The cable co's are going to get there share one way or another!



Well, when you start talking about comparative cost it's like asking me would I prefer to drive a Chevy or a Lexus. Both will get me from point A to point B, well possibly I don't have that much faith in the SA 8300 but for the sake of this post lets say it does. I chose TiVo for reliability and for the high tech aspect of it. For me cost was not the issue. And if cost is an issue then bottom line is you need to look at the SA 8300.


And not to nit pick but that 5.00 charge for tuning adapter is non existent the tuner adapter is free. We do pay 3 to 6.00 for cable cards however we don't pay for the DVR so that's kind of break even.


----------



## infoman1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17004261
> 
> 
> Well, when you start talking about comparative cost it's like asking me would I prefer to drive a Chevy or a Lexus. Both will get me from point A to point B, well possibly I don't have that much faith in the SA 8300 but for the sake of this post lets say it does. I chose TiVo for reliability and for the high tech aspect of it. For me cost was not the issue. And if cost is an issue then bottom line is you need to look at the SA 8300.
> 
> 
> And not to nit pick but that 5.00 charge for tuning adapter is non existent the tuner adapter is free. We do pay 3 to 6.00 for cable cards however we don't pay for the DVR so that's kind of break even.



I agree you with 100% It's all about what you want and how much your willing to pay for it. As for the tuning adapter your fortunate. In some TW markets they are not and will not be supported! It is something that is not required by the FCC, so your at there mercy. Apologies for my error, the tuning adapter is free, it was cable card customers that had the option of a free adapter for 6 months then a $5 month fee in NEO. Essentially you are paying a premium for a DVR (Tivo), the hardware cost, and the monthly subscription so your not making a fair comparison. Its a streach to call it break even.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17004754
> 
> 
> I agree you with 100% It's all about what you want and how much your willing to pay for it. As for the tuning adapter your fortunate. In some TW markets they are not and will not be supported! It is something that is not required by the FCC, so your at there mercy. Apologies for my error, the tuning adapter is free, it was cable card customers that had the option of a free adapter for 6 months then a $5 month fee in NEO.



No apologies necessary. It's my understanding however that while there is no requirement for a cable company to provide a tuner adapter there is an agreement with all cable companies and TiVo on the ability to get a tuner adapter. If the area has SDV you should be able to get a tuner adapter. Now as to whether or not you pay for it, that I don't know and I wouldn't be surprised if indeed we are charged for it further on down the line.


Found a link that goes into some details for you.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/...-in-the-flesh/ 


Edit: That must be a Moto on top of that TiVo box because mine is much larger. Or it was just a prototype of some sort.


----------



## infoman1

How does this Tivo thing integrate with the cable? It appears you could eliminate the digital set top box altogether, would that be correct? Thats a $7 or $8 charge every month. This may be more cost effective than I orginally thought.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17005922
> 
> 
> How does this Tivo thing integrate with the cable? It appears you could eliminate the digital set top box altogether, would that be correct? Thats a $7 or $8 charge every month. This may be more cost effective than I orginally thought.



Correct, the TiVo is the STB. It's also capable of OTA and can do both at the same time.


I have read on other threads where people have figured out that it's actually a cost saving over renting a cable box in the long run. It takes a couple of years but you should get your money back in savings overall. And with the new m cards there is only a need for a single cable card, not two like what I currently have so you save an additional 3 bucks on the cable card.


Just an FYI I have a S3 and a TiVo HD. That's 4 cable cards for me. The S3 can only use the S card the TiVo HD can use either S or M.


I also have an SA 8300. My wife records big brother on it, I rarely even look at it.


----------



## infoman1

Is the M-Card a dual tuner? Meaning can you record an HD content source and watch another even though both may be SDV?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17006093
> 
> 
> Is the M-Card a dual tuner? Meaning can you record an HD content source and watch another even though both may be SDV?



Correct. M card is a dual tuner and yes you can watch one show while recording one or two shows just like with the SA 8300.


TiVo goes way beyond just cable. It works with the internet as well, you can access YouTube, stream HD movies from Netflix and Amazon Unbox. You can play mp3's from your computer using the wireless network in your home. It's really a total package of technology.


Seems like I've peeked your curiosity a bit.







I'll admit I'm quite a fanboy of TiVo but there is a reason why I like it so much. Take your searches for example. With TW's boxes you have to know what day the show is on just to do a simple search. TiVo you just type in the shows name and you set up your recordings. It also has a wishlist which can be used several ways like if you want to record films by a certain director, it can find those for you...even if they arn't available at the time you're searching.


Those are two of my favorite features.


----------



## infoman1

This will require further investigation. I love toys.


----------



## Vchat20

I'm personally a fan of a WMC HTPC myself for various reasons. One being that it goes even beyond Tivo's feature-set. Taking your own analogy hookbill: Cable STV would be a Chevy, Tivo a Lexus, and WMC and Rolls Royce (albeit the upkeep and maintenance probably not that of a RR, but as someone who supports and uses the stuff on a daily basis it's a no-brainer). Of course the entry price proportionally goes up with each option.


Cable STB is only gonna cost you the monthly fee like $10-$15 combines for both the box and DVR service.

Tivo's gonna run you roughly ~$300 give or take depending on the model and retailer plus the guide subscription fee and cablecard fees.

WMC for a full featured box with Cablecard support is probably gonna run you over $1000 easy for OEM built (have to for cablecard functionality unfortunately if you want to be legit. No DIY without hacking involved) and no subscription fee outside the cablecards.


To each their own though. The price is usually the primary deciding factor and what you can afford.


----------



## hookbill

To be perfectly honest Vchat I know absolutely nothing about the technology that you're talking about. I was under the impression that you were recording television through some type of fire wire. I know you have the same copy protection issues I have, but again I was under the impression that the copy protection was prohibiting you from copying period.


For the benefit of infoman1 I should explain that all digital channels except locals are restricted to copy once on Time Warner. This unfairly limits our abilities, but there is nothing we can do about it. So while you can record it on a TiVo and I imagine on the device Vchat20 is talking about you cannot move it to another area like to a PC for storage/transfer purposes. Analog channels are not affected of course.


Being as I know you are indeed a knowledgeable person when it comes to cable television devices I'll accept that there could very well be something beyond TiVo and actually I'm glad there is. That just forces TiVo to keep getting better.










Just so I can educate myself further is there a link you can provide me with so I can kind of look at the features of WMC HTPC? Not buying of course, just window shopping.


----------



## infoman1

Bill, cable card is free from TW? I think my rate card lists at $3.10, and are they available?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *infoman1* /forum/post/17006282
> 
> 
> Bill, cable card is free from TW? I think my rate card lists at $3.10, and are they available?



I'll let the Bill thing slide...see my signature.










I thought it was 3 dollars even, I pay 6.00 for two cards. If it list 3.10 however that's what it is for a card. You do have to pay for the card they are not free.


----------



## Vchat20

Actually hookbill, WMC (Windows Media Center) acts just like a Tivo and if using the right hardware with cablecard support is identical. Although right now ATI's cablecard tuners have all channels DRM'd regardless of CCI flag setting, a new firmware update due out soon is supposed to bring that back in line (in addition to adding much awaited SDV tuning adapter support) so it's just the same situation as Tivo's as far as copying programs to and from. And it is no more difficult to transfer shows to other devices than a Tivo is as long as the copy protection suffices (and you can use multiple analog and OTA tuners just the same. In fact as many as you want depending on how many tuners you can cram in the box or usb ports).


This is much different from the firewire setup which I really don't fuss with much these days unless I have a particular recorded program I am interested in copying over. The channels keep going back and forth and I don't know which ones will be available to copy from one week to the next. The only really reliable ones are the locals and even then the crappy SA box is so bogged down with the OCAP/Navi mess that the recordings come off with a buttload of dropouts anyway.


I really would love to go into the finer details of the capabilities of such a setup, but this isn't the right thread.







A good google search though should turn up a number of good websites.


----------



## hookbill

Yes Windows Media Center. I have one running XP and as you're aware its pretty much useless. Wife bought it a few years back for me because of the media center. I had no idea what to do with it at that time.


IIRC Vista was suppose to pave the way and Windows 7 is suppose to perfect it. At least I understand what you're talking about now.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. XP MCE was extremely limited. Can't even do ClearQAM (dunno about ATSC. I think support was added in an update?) without a major hack. And the feature-set is quite limited. Vista's improves that drastically though and Windows 7 even moreso. QAM, Cablecard, OTA ATSC, analog cable, soon-to-be native Dish Network tuning support. Up to 4 tuners of each (probably more with a small hack if memory serves). And the UI is 900 miles ahead of anything else and extremely intuitive.


I actually tested W7 dualbooted on my desktop with a basic analog cable tuner and run at 1080p on my 42" Panny and utilizing the remote control for it, it all made me realize how far ahead it is of all other DVR solutions. And what features it doesn't have can usually easily be added with 3rd party addons which feel just as much a native part of the system as the stock functionality. One such addition is integrated Bluray and HD-DVD playback through a Cyberlink product which drops right into the media center interface.


I recommend this review and the embedded videos: http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/07/27...center-review/


----------



## infoman1

Sorry :-( You can get a refurb from Tivo for 199.00. The first year of savings from the TW STB and DVR pays for the box @ 199.00 There after it's a cost savings of $95.00 a year with the cost of the cable card and Tivo subscription figured in. Not withstanding any drive or hardware failure your ahead of the game. I already have a Netflix streaming account with my Blu Ray. Does it happen to support Pandora?


----------



## hookbill

No it doesn't support Pandora at least not yet. Besides Amazon there is also Disney. They constantly add things to TiVo. They also provide access to things like The Onion and other freebies. Podcast is available as well.


And I totally agree on a refurb. That would be a good way to go. TiVo does test every refurb it ships out.


I don't remember the name off hand but I have extended warranties on both machines for 3 years that cost 50 bucks each. I got mine through the now defunct Circuit City but the warranties are still good and supported by H H Gregg. I felt the warranties were a bargain at the time and made me feel better about my purchase.


----------



## Vchat20

One other advantage of a media center system I noticed this evening after doing a quick scan of ClearQAM stations on my set is that due to the ability to install and use any combination of tuners and direct integration of the HDHomerun QAM tuners into MCE, I can add in some of the channels we have access to down here but can't reach OTA (WUAB and it's subchannel(s), Cleveland's CW station in HD, WJW, WEWS, WOIO, and WKYC with their subchannels, WVIZ and theirs, RTV, This.TV, and one or two others which aren't available on TWC's lineup here but in the QAMs) and slip them right into the guide with the right data and not be a complete kludge. And then set each tuner with recording priorities (for example with WKYC I could make the two ClearQAM tuners top priority, two cablecard tuners lower priority, and should I get my antenna fixed up and be able to pull in more cleveland stations, set WKYC on those tuners as lowest priority. )


Anyways, apologize for the rantage. I'm done for real now.


----------



## hookbill

I had a 1 minute recording of the 7/28 recording of SyFy's Warehouse 13, Bit again by SDV bug.


Well that's what BT is for. Thanks TW.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17017000
> 
> 
> I had a 1 minute recording of the 7/28 recording of SyFy's Warehouse 13, Bit again by SDV bug.
> 
> 
> Well that's what BT is for. Thanks TW.



Was this on a Tivo? That sounds alot like what happens with Navigator on SDC channels.


----------



## hookbill

On tivo. I never had a partial recording until SDV showed up. Its the fourth partial I've had all on SDV channels.


----------



## hookbill

Just a reminder tomorrow is the day that the massive switch of digital channels to SDV occurs. Will we see more HD channels added in September?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17017256
> 
> 
> Just a reminder tomorrow is the day that the massive switch of digital channels to SDV occurs. Will we see more HD channels added in September?












































































What's switching to who?


----------



## Vchat20

Good go hook, don't scare the poor boy.










I still don't know what crazy operation they are running in your areas. Other than the few complete SDV system dropouts we have had and Navigator's stupid back-to-back recordings bug, I haven't had any showstoppers with SDV. Granted, ever since they took the smart route and pulled USAHD out of SDV, I haven't had much on SDV to record these days (In fact the majority of the recording is my mom's soap operas on the local channels and past that it is Psych and Monk. Though the Science Channel has had some intriguing shows on lately that I am recording so I'd have to watch those.)


----------



## nickdawg

To update what I wrote earlier:


I haven't had any major issues since the random freezing last Thursday. On Friday the channels started working OK again and it's been that way over the weekend. The only channels on SDV I watch are CNN and Faux. Can't say how the others are working, but those two work fine.


Still, whenever I hear that channels are being added to ASSDV I never greet that with excitement. The only thing I can say is they better add more HD channels in September. That big bag of mashed up jackass from TWC said we were going to get at least 5 new channels a month. We got nothing at all in July and it looks like August is going to be the same.


---------------


I noticed some new channels in the lineup tonight. RFD, Crime and Investigation and Military History. All three of these channels say "To receive this channel, call customer care". How nice, they add new channels, not HD channels, and you can't even watch the damn channels!! Thanks TWC!!


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17017866
> 
> 
> The only thing I can say is they better add more HD channels in September. That big bag of mashed up jackass from TWC said we were going to get at least 5 new channels a month. We got nothing at all in July and it looks like August is going to be the same.



Don't tell me you actually trust what a PR guy said more than 30 seconds ago... If so, that may drop you down a few notches on my list...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17017919
> 
> 
> Don't tell me you actually trust what a PR guy said more than 30 seconds ago... If so, that may drop you down a few notches on my list...



Oh no. I don't trust that prick farther than I can throw him. But I am still insulted that they would lie to our faces about this. They lied to Ohio Media Watch and to all the people of NE Ohio. I knew the "100 channels by the end of the year" claim was BS. They need to stop making promises they cannot keep.


----------



## Vchat20

I may be playing devils advocate here, but I wouldn't go shooting the messenger here. Gotta remember that Mr. Jasso is just a PR person at Time Warner and from the way his posts on OMW sound he is just another HD-loving consumer like the rest of us. Knowing how corporations like TWC work, he was probably given promises by the higher ups about the major HD additions and they pulled out these past couple months for whatever reason leaving him and the rest of us hanging.


More than anything I'd start chewing out TWC as a larger whole for the incompetent headend techs (Buggy SDV, leaky plants, etc.), horrible business decisions based on zero technical merit (Navigator), and the lack of any modern services. And do keep them very well aware that Dish and DirecTV are very viable alternatives for 99% of the populous (Even for those of you with obstructions, I am sure with enough ingenuity a solution can be made. One such possibility is finding another location on the property that is not obstructed or moving it to a higher elevation like a roof).


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17017946
> 
> 
> More than anything I'd start chewing out TWC as a larger whole for the incompetent headend techs (Buggy SDV, leaky plants, etc.), horrible business decisions based on zero technical merit (Navigator), and the lack of any modern services. And do keep them very well aware that Dish and DirecTV are very viable alternatives for 99% of the populous (Even for those of you with obstructions, I am sure with enough ingenuity a solution can be made. One such possibility is finding another location on the property that is not obstructed or moving it to a higher elevation like a roof).



That I absolutely agree with. Especially the Navigator and SDV parts. I'll never understand why they did Navigator. All of the areas with successful SDV have had it for the past few years and are SARA areas. You'd think they would want to continue the success of something that works, rather than doing one huge beta test on the general public. There's no reason why TW NEO couldn't have started using SARA on the HDC boxes and eventually 'converted' the others and had a unified system with the former Adelphia areas. I know certain people, a little birdie














, doesn't share my love of SARA, but it's not like it would be a downgrade. Compared to Passport, anything is a downgrade. Navigator was a huge downgrade as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17017770
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's switching to who?



Almost the entire list of digital channels over 100 are going to SDV. Remember the letter I got in the mail? I made a copy of it and you freaked out. Today is the day. Chiller and something like 59 other channels are all going SDV. Many premium channels are going SDV too.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17018117
> 
> 
> Almost the entire list of digital channels over 100 are going to SDV. Remember the letter I got in the mail? I made a copy of it and you freaked out. Today is the day. Chiller and something like 59 other channels are all going SDV. Many premium channels are going SDV too.



Meanwhile in old Comcast Mentor....Still no SDV (perhaps a blessing) and we still have not received any of the HD channels from the May addition.


TWC Your technical staff should be embarrassed.


Ray


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17019063
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in old Comcast Mentor....Still no SDV (perhaps a blessing) and we still have not received any of the HD channels from the May addition.
> 
> 
> TWC Your technical staff should be embarrassed.
> 
> 
> Ray



Same thing here in Amherst (Elyria). I email Fry a few weeks a few weeks ago asking when we would get the new HD channels and he didn't have the decency to reply.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17020092
> 
> 
> Same thing here in Amherst (Elyria). I email Fry a few weeks a few weeks ago asking when we would get the new HD channels and he didn't have the decency to reply.



I had a number to complain to the actual President of TW but I can't find it for the life of me. I wouldn't give up try a google and see if you can't come up with something.


Of course the reason there is no response is they don't know. Is this the second time you emailed, I know one of you guys did already.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17019063
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in old Comcast Mentor....Still no SDV (perhaps a blessing) and we still have not received any of the HD channels from the May addition.
> 
> 
> TWC Your technical staff should be embarrassed.
> 
> 
> Ray



Same thing here in old Comcast Elyria. I do however have my tuning adapter all hooked up and ready to go for when, and, if SDV ever gets turned on. Today was supposed to be the day. Actually, I guess today isn't really over till midnight, but I'm not holding my breath.


I like my new black Samsung 3090 DVR box so far. No missed or shortchanged shows so far. I'm even starting to

get good at blasting thru the 3 minute breaks using FF x3.


Ben Music


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17020167
> 
> 
> I had a number to complain to the actual President of TW but I can't find it for the life of me. I wouldn't give up try a google and see if you can't come up with something.
> 
> 
> Of course the reason there is no response is they don't know. Is this the second time you emailed, I know one of you guys did already.



I did email awhile back the first time. I did stop in the Elyria office of Time Warner a couple of weeks ago and asked about when we would get SDV. They told me sometime in August or September.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17020536
> 
> 
> I did email awhile back the first time. I did stop in the Elyria office of Time Warner a couple of weeks ago and asked about when we would get SDV. They told me sometime in August or September.



Wow that narrows it down doesn't it?











Might as well just told you the truth, they have no idea.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17020092
> 
> 
> Same thing here in Amherst (Elyria). I email Fry a few weeks a few weeks ago asking when we would get the new HD channels and he didn't have the decency to reply.



TWC hits a new low. Even Fry isn't talking now.


I checked a few digital channels, no signs of SDV yet.


----------



## hookbill

I just got off the phone with my contact at TW. According to what she is telling me in your area they are still basically trying to figure out which way to go on how they are going to deliver the SDV. According to Motorola there is a way to get it to work with TW SDV. But the problem is they can't seem to get it down and are trying to work with Motorola to resolve the issue. The alternative, and I'm using her words is they would have to bite the bullet and swallow the cost of swapping out the boxes.


So there you have it. It's the cost of doing business and apparently it's cheaper for them to avoid a swap of the boxes if at all possible.


There has been no announcement made as to a time when you are going to receive SDV or the new HD channels. Doesn't mean somebody doesn't know something somewhere.


Now at least you have a little clue of what's going on.


Oh why was I talking to her in the first place? Why I had a cable card issue, of course.


----------



## rmanderson26

Is anyone else getting channel not available when tuning to the Syfy channel HD? I just got off the phone with a TMC CSR and he was worthless.


----------



## hookbill

No problems here in Bainbridge with SyFy.


----------



## bassguitarman

No guide data past saturday night.

Former Adelphia area.

Dave


----------



## rmanderson26




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17025209
> 
> 
> No guide data past saturday night.
> 
> Former Adelphia area.
> 
> Dave



Same here in Westlake.


----------



## hookbill

You guys going to call customer service or just hope it gets fixed somehow? If they don't know about it they can't fix it. Think they got someone monitoring this stuff? They do, it's called "The customer."










Mine's the same way and I'd call it in myself but quite honestly my wife is the only one to use the SA 8300 and I just don't care.


----------



## bassguitarman

Well I noticed the new channels like rfdtv are in the guide with no data

So I figure its part of their guide update.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17025666
> 
> 
> Well I noticed the new channels like rfdtv are in the guide with no data
> 
> So I figure its part of their guide update.



Oh, could be then. I don't know I think having just 4 days of data for a DVR is unacceptable. Doesn't it usually have 7?


----------



## bassguitarman

Yes 7 is the normal amount.

If it doesnt clear up tonite I'll reboot the box

Dave


----------



## shooter21198

I woke up today to find out TWC f***ed up Nat Geo HD

Instead of it being Nat Geo HD like the guide says it is. It is now FSN HD with the nice HD Sports promo


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17027097
> 
> 
> I woke up today to find out TWC f***ed up Nat Geo HD
> 
> Instead of it being Nat Geo HD like the guide says it is. It is now FSN HD with the nice HD Sports promo



I just took a look it appears you are correct. No ID to FSN HD but nothing on that channel either. Weird. How could they get THAT screwed up?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17027097
> 
> 
> I woke up today to find out TWC f***ed up Nat Geo HD
> 
> Instead of it being Nat Geo HD like the guide says it is. It is now FSN HD with the nice HD Sports promo



Don't complain too much.

Disney HD is HBO HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17025647
> 
> 
> You guys going to call customer service or just hope it gets fixed somehow? If they don't know about it they can't fix it. Think they got someone monitoring this stuff? They do, it's called "The customer."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine's the same way and I'd call it in myself but quite honestly my wife is the only one to use the SA 8300 and I just don't care.



Why? I'm all for dogging on TWC about fixing their crap, but just for guide data? Who cares! I've had that problem before, the data always eventually shows up.


They have bigger things to fix, like SDV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17027938
> 
> 
> Why? I'm all for dogging on TWC about fixing their crap, but just for guide data? Who cares! I've had that problem before, the data always eventually shows up.
> 
> 
> They have bigger things to fix, like SDV.



Well, because if you actually do use your DVR and you want to schedule a recording you need it? It's not like you can just make a WISHLIST on those things and it will record when it hits the guide.










And I think I'll call my contact about HBO HD being in the wrong spot and get this crap straightened out. j/k










Seriously WTF is happening over there? Why do I feel a major outage coming up soon?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17027959
> 
> 
> Well, because if you actually do use your DVR and you want to schedule a recording you need it? It's not like you can just make a WISHLIST on those things and it will record when it hits the guide.



Then just wait a few days to set the recording. The data always arrives in time for the day it is used.



> Quote:
> And I think I'll call my contact about HBO HD being in the wrong spot and get this crap straightened out. j/k














> Quote:
> Seriously WTF is happening over there? Why do I feel a major outage coming up soon?



I get the feeling something is going to get broken in the process of fixing it.


----------



## hookbill

j/k means just kidding nickdawg. You really need to start tweeting.


----------



## scnrfrq

"The Digital Choice Package is EXPANDING!


Beginning August 15th, the Digital Choice Package will feature three new channels:


RFD - the nation's first 24-hour television network dedicated to serving the needs and interests of rural America and agriculture. RFD will be on position 229.


Crime & Investigation - a new network from the A&E family of networks - a mix of reality and drama programming, including new and fresh programming from the UK and Australia. C&I will be added to position 222.


Military History Channel - a spin off of the popular History Channel, this network has been highly requested by our customers. Military History Channel will be on position 139."


Is anyone actually getting these channels? Military History is listed at 138 now. All I'm getting is a message screen to call TW? Can they expect us to pay extra for these?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17028941
> 
> 
> "The Digital Choice Package is EXPANDING!
> 
> 
> Beginning August 15th, the Digital Choice Package will feature three new channels:
> 
> 
> RFD - the nation's first 24-hour television network dedicated to serving the needs and interests of rural America and agriculture. RFD will be on position 229.
> 
> 
> Crime & Investigation - a new network from the A&E family of networks - a mix of reality and drama programming, including new and fresh programming from the UK and Australia. C&I will be added to position 222.
> 
> 
> Military History Channel - a spin off of the popular History Channel, this network has been highly requested by our customers. Military History Channel will be on position 139."
> 
> 
> Is anyone actually getting these channels? Military History is listed at 138 now. All I'm getting is a message screen to call TW? *Can they expect us to pay extra for these?*


*
*



Of course they do. That's why they moved it, trying to rake more money out of our wallets. They've done that already with a couple of other digital channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17028969
> 
> 
> [/b]
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they do. That's why they moved it, trying to rake more money out of our wallets. They've done that already with a couple of other digital channels.



They're a bunch of dicks! Last year they moved Fine Living and DIY channel to that package. I think that's the plan. Eventually they will make yet another extra charge tier to make us pay more than we already do for stuff that should be included.


I pay close to $110 a month, I think that entitles me to every channel outside the premiums, sports packages: NBA, MLB, NFL and pay per view.


----------



## nickdawg

Crap!! CWC fixed those two channels. HVO would permanently be available like that, would save me tons of money!!


----------



## bassguitarman

Still no guide data

1pm today

Dave


----------



## ErieMarty

anyone have problem with NO TV because they are trying to do a software upgrade to the digital boxes....


had TV between 6am and 7am..then it went out until about 11am...then back out sometime early this afternoon..then off again around 4:45pm..


just get message saying don't shut off your digital box as we are in the process of download new software..


problem is..I dont' think the box it on...I have Clock..but power light isn't on..


what the FRICK...


PS..when I was on line with Repair wondering whats going on..(they gave me BS answer )..I asked about new HD Channels..and person said..8 more are suppose to be on the way but not sure when..and when I asked what channels he said he was told not to say what channels


----------



## Vchat20

With these boxes the power light doesn't mean squat other than under 'normal' operation it switches the video output off and on (it doesn't even do that. The graphics all go off and any channel/video watching, but a signal is still being sent to the tv. Just a black screen). Otherwise the box is always on unless you unplug it.


Let it do its thing and update. Once finished it should be back to normal (whatever 'normal' is with these things).


----------



## hookbill

I posted a few days back about how SDV caused me to have a partial recording of Warehouse 13 on ScyFy. I attempted to watch the 8/4 episode tonight but the picture was constantly frozen while dialog continued.


My wife loves this show and she was pissed. I'll get a copy of the episode but this is just so unacceptable. If this continues maybe we will be cutting trees for the satellite line of sight.


----------



## amtrak23

So what are the other options in NEO? I don't really want SAT, and keep seeing ATT Uverse flyers in our box. Better or worse?


Frankly, I'm pissed at these fools. I don't get mad often, but after seeing our second bill show up today, and not seeing a credit on it for their crappy "install", and realizing I have now paid $250 ($125/mo)for what will most likely be more craptastic service I about lost it...LOL. I don't have exact numbers but I get pixelation at some point during any show we watch, it seems.


----------



## nickdawg

I hope WOIO gets the fnck to work on increasing their power. Tonight I lost CBS through TWC. The fncking picture on WOIO turned yellow during Craig Ferguson. Also have a DTV converter box connected to this TV with an A/B switch. WOIO worked fine with my antenna. It's back up now. I know that yellow screen has something to do with WOIO SD on TWC. I have seen some pixelation on WOIO HD and SD through TWC so even their reception station must have problems getting the channel.


----------



## bassguitarman

Guide data was active this morning

Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/17037181
> 
> 
> So what are the other options in NEO? I don't really want SAT, and keep seeing ATT Uverse flyers in our box. Better or worse?
> 
> 
> Frankly, I'm pissed at these fools. I don't get mad often, but after seeing our second bill show up today, and not seeing a credit on it for their crappy "install", and realizing I have now paid $250 ($125/mo)for what will most likely be more craptastic service I about lost it...LOL. I don't have exact numbers but I get pixelation at some point during any show we watch, it seems.



I don't know a lot about AT&T. It use to be that you could only receive one HD show at a time but they may have changed it now. I have heard good things about U-Verse but I personally don't have a lot of trust in AT&T. I have less trust in Time Warner.


If you have a land line phone you could go to their internet and see what kind of a deal you can get. Just check it out and make sure you can get more then 1 HD channel at a time. Other then that it looks pretty good.


Availability here in N.E. Ohio is a problem with U-Verse. Since they are sticking flyers on your mail box I would guess your able to get it. Do you have one of their big ugly boxes on your street?


----------



## hookbill

From Ohio Media Watch:


Many Time Warner Cable customers in the company's areas formerly serviced by Comcast have been E-mailing us over the past two months or so...with one question. "When are we going to get the same HDTV offerings now available elsewhere on Time Warner?"


Some have speculated that the cable boxes Comcast used - manufactured by Motorola and General Instrument - have been an obstacle that slowed down the HDTV rollout in the areas that used to be served by that company.


Those boxes...are being shoved out the door in a big promotion by Time Warner Cable, aimed at former Comcast customers in the Elyria/Lorain area.


Time Warner tells us that they're aiming to get some 14,000 Motorola and General Instrument boxes replaced, so letters are going out to those 12,000 customers starting on Monday.


The affected customers will have 30 days after the receipt of the letter to either go to TWC's service centers in Elyria or North Olmsted, and get a free swap for a new box (presumably a Scientific Atlanta model). Customers who do the swap themselves will also get $25 worth of coupons for "On Demand" movies.


The other option is to call 877-77-CABLE to set up an all-day appointment with a technician to come out and swap the box for you. TWC is asking that you use the special code ELYRIAMOTO when going this route, and you won't get the "On Demand" coupons. The swap itself will still be free.


The new boxes will provide "several enhancements", TWC tells us, including "an enhanced on-screen guide, caller-ID on TV, larger DVR storage capacity, and over 15 new HD channels within 30 days."


That will presumably bring the Elyria/Lorain lineup into line with the HDTV lineup in the rest of the Time Warner Northeast Ohio system, with channels like ESPNews HD, Bravo HD, Animal Planet HD, CNN HD, Fox News HD, Golf HD, and FX HD, plus others, that are not seen yet in the former Comcast system.


We're told that the new HD channels won't show up immediately when the box swap is made, but should appear within 30 days of the receipt of the letter...and if you get the letter and your box hasn't been swapped, it'll be the proverbial toast after that 30 day period.


The exchange will take place in stages through November, so if you're an ex-Comcaster in Lorain County and you don't get a letter on Monday, hang in...it'll come, eventually. Monday's only the start of the effort.


Here's a list of the affected communities, in case you're not sure if you're a former Comcast area customer:


AMHERST CITY

AMHERST TWP

AVON CITY

AVON LAKE

BAY VILLAGE

CARLISLE TWP

EATON TWP

ELYRIA CITY

ELYRIA TWP

NEW RUSSIA TWP

NORTH RIDGEVILLE CITY

SOUTH AMHERST VILLAGE


And no, we don't know how or if this affects the former Comcast area in and around Mentor that's now part of the TWC Northeast Ohio empire, or if the swap is even needed in that area.


http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17045486
> 
> 
> From Ohio Media Watch:
> 
> 
> Here's a list of the affected communities, in case you're not sure if you're a former Comcast area customer:
> 
> 
> AMHERST CITY
> 
> AMHERST TWP
> 
> AVON CITY
> 
> AVON LAKE
> 
> BAY VILLAGE
> 
> CARLISLE TWP
> 
> EATON TWP
> 
> ELYRIA CITY
> 
> ELYRIA TWP
> 
> NEW RUSSIA TWP
> 
> NORTH RIDGEVILLE CITY
> 
> SOUTH AMHERST VILLAGE
> 
> 
> And no, we don't know how or if this affects the former Comcast area in and around Mentor that's now part of the TWC Northeast Ohio empire, or if the swap is even needed in that area.
> 
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/



Thanks for the info Hook,


I feel so alone in Mentor now.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

I think it means that you guys are last. If they can't make the technology work in Elyria, I doubt they will do it in Mentor.


I'm guessing of course but it makes sense that they would do one area at a time. First they need to have the supply of boxes for the switch, then they need to also provide the man power for people who will take the all day appointment.


Interesting I think that they are going to kill the signal to the moto boxes all together after 30. Can you imagine if the letter gets lost in the mail and you're clueless? One night you come home and boom - no cable.


----------



## Vchat20

My take on it is if you are now in TWC territory and still have older Motorola, GI, or non-SA equipment you should be swapping for new equipment anyways even if not fully required according to TW's notices. Upgrading to something like the SA8300HDC/8240HDC or the newer Samsungs (I don't think we have any in the region...YET. But they should be arriving soon I'd hope and are a major step up from the SA boxes) will future proof things and get you on the same page with TWC as far as getting current generation equipment they are actively supporting.


As always if you have existing recordings on the older equipment, either record them off to a VCR, DVD recorder, whathaveyou, or just watch them and erase them. These recordings do NOT get transferred to the new equipment (I know this is common sense for most of us, but....







)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17045598
> 
> 
> My take on it is if you are now in TWC territory and still have older Motorola, GI, or non-SA equipment you should be swapping for new equipment anyways even if not fully required according to TW's notices. Upgrading to something like the SA8300HDC/8240HDC or the newer Samsungs (I don't think we have any in the region...YET. But they should be arriving soon I'd hope and are a major step up from the SA boxes) will future proof things and get you on the same page with TWC as far as getting current generation equipment they are actively supporting.
> 
> 
> As always if you have existing recordings on the older equipment, either record them off to a VCR, DVD recorder, whathaveyou, or just watch them and erase them. These recordings do NOT get transferred to the new equipment (I know this is common sense for most of us, but....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



It's not quite that easy. You can't just walk in and say "I want an SA 8300 HDC." At least not at my local office. Remember they were handing out SA 8000 and I heard them tell one person "that's the newest that we have." I was lucky to get a SA 8300. And I kind of doubt that they will invest all that much money into this already costly switch out. And as far as current generation technology I believe Elyria is on ancient SARA.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17045598
> 
> 
> My take on it is if you are now in TWC territory and still have older Motorola, GI, or non-SA equipment you should be swapping for new equipment anyways even if not fully required according to TW's notices. Upgrading to something like the SA8300HDC/8240HDC or the newer Samsungs (I don't think we have any in the region...YET. But they should be arriving soon I'd hope and are a major step up from the SA boxes) will future proof things and get you on the same page with TWC as far as getting current generation equipment they are actively supporting.
> 
> 
> As always if you have existing recordings on the older equipment, either record them off to a VCR, DVD recorder, whathaveyou, or just watch them and erase them. These recordings do NOT get transferred to the new equipment (I know this is common sense for most of us, but....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



The new Samsungs are not better. Not now. Someone had one and reviewed it on the Navigator topic a few months back. It basically had the same bugs the SA boxes had when Navigator was still new. No way in hell I'd take a Samsung box now. Plus the UI is stretched. The guide, DVR list and channel banner is STRETCHED, regardless of the settings you choose. Pass.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17045720
> 
> 
> It's not quite that easy. You can't just walk in and say "I want an SA 8300 HDC." At least not at my local office. Remember they were handing out SA 8000 and I heard them tell one person "that's the newest that we have." I was lucky to get a SA 8300. And I kind of doubt that they will invest all that much money into this already costly switch out. And as far as current generation technology I believe Elyria is on ancient SARA.



You're not getting a new box because you are in a SARA area. The new boxes are more common in the Navigator areas. Since the older boxes choke on Navigator, it makes sense to run SARA on them(since SARA is like the old Passport).


Elyria and all the other Comcast systems have that funky guide from the Motorola boxes. Check the link in Vchat's signature, I think there is a picture there. In Elyria and the other Comcast areas it probably is that easy. They should be giving out HDC boxes running ODN.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17045720
> 
> 
> It's not quite that easy. You can't just walk in and say "I want an SA 8300 HDC." At least not at my local office. Remember they were handing out SA 8000 and I heard them tell one person "that's the newest that we have." I was lucky to get a SA 8300. And I kind of doubt that they will invest all that much money into this already costly switch out. And as far as current generation technology I believe Elyria is on ancient SARA.



I swapped my Moto DVR box out over a month ago at my local office and it was no proplem at all getting the 8300HDC. I guess if they had a run on SA boxes there probably would be a problem though.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

I thought I had read that you guys got the ood SA8300. Guess just ex Adelpia OH stuck on SARA get the old beat up stuff.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17045587
> 
> 
> Interesting I think that they are going to kill the signal to the moto boxes all together after 30. Can you imagine if the letter gets lost in the mail and you're clueless? One night you come home and boom - no cable.



That'll sure get the people in motion to swap the box!


----------



## schandorsky

A question for you experts. Is the SA Explorer 4250HDC the correct box for the SDV switch over.


If we get the new HD channels here in Amherst in September, it will exactly one year ago that I received the letter from Time Warner Cable explaining that the SDV change over would be in October 2008.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17049063
> 
> 
> A question for you experts. Is the SA Explorer 4250HDC the correct box for the SDV switch over.
> 
> If we get the new HD channels here in Amherst in September, it will exactly one year ago that I received the letter from Time Warner Cable explaining that the SDV change over would be in October 2008.



Yes, the 4250 HDC would be the correct STB for the switch to SDV.


I remember that letter. I never received it but I remember people talking about it.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17049073
> 
> 
> Yes, the 4250 HDC would be the correct STB for the switch to SDV.
> 
> 
> I remember that letter. I never received it but I remember people talking about it.



I wonder if I can still get the $25 free coupons?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17049096
> 
> 
> I wonder if I can still get the $25 free coupons?



I don't think so. They are only doing this for the moto customers to get them to switch out.


To be honest when I saw that part of the offer I laughed a bit. Wouldn't it just be like TW to screw up you used your coupon.


Did you turn in your moto box before or have you always been with TW?


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

First post in this forum, so please be gentle!


So, I was wondering if those in the know could comment on the current advertisement that TWC is airing in its NEO market. The Ad coincides with TWC's "Free HD" campaign [hxxp:// www.timewarnercable.com/NortheastOhio/learn/cable/hdtv.html ], and it very clearly states that a free HD Cable Box is included. We have recently added a 2nd HDTV to our home and would like to be able to receive more than just the OTA equivalents of what's available via QAM on our 2nd HDTV. When we called in to get more information, we were told by more than one representative that no matter what, everyone who receives "Free HD" from TWC has to pay over $7.00/month for each HD STB that they lease from TWC.


----------



## hookbill

Welcome to the forum. Nobody will flame you for asking a question.


I can't say for certain that I've seen it on TV but every ad I've seen for their "free" HD has a disclaimer and says that free HD us with digital service. Since new HD televisions don't have cable cards this means you not only need digital service but you need the conversion box.


If you go to www.twneo.com you will find the disclaimer. I believe the 7.00 is for a DVR rental but it could be that's what you pay for a set top box. I thought that was 4.95.


You will see us talk a lot about switched digital video or SDV. Any HD channel on SDV is not available on clear in the qam.


Bottom line is they cover themselves with the disclaimer and to get full HD you need to rent a STB or DVR.


----------



## nickdawg

$25 free coupons? What is this, the CECB program?


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. While I don't see any mentioning of a 'Free HD Box' on the link you posted, it is generally known that an HD box costs the same as a standard def box with or without DVR service so this MAY be one reasoning. But I doubt they'd give you a free box unless it was like a promotional deal or something for 6/12 months.


ClearQAM really is only going to get you the locals. A set of cablecards in your HD set will give you everything but the newer SDV channels (check back a handful of pages as I had made a listing of what was in SDV these days), VOD, PPV, etc.. An HD box will give you everything. Though an HD DVR will cost around the same as the cablecards will so that would be a better route.


----------



## nickdawg

It's called Free HD because the HD equivalents of the channels you get with your current level of service are available at no additional charge. Other providers like Directv have an extra charge for having HD services, a HD access fee that's around $10. Even when TWC only had 5 national HD channels, that was their selling point: no extra charge for HD.


Also, whenever you see any of those TWC "sale" prices, it NEVER includes equipment. It's in the fine print that each box costs extra.


----------



## Rbuchina

The HD box cost the same monthy fee to lease vs the digital box/digital service. Back in the spring I swapped my old Motorola bedroom box for an SA 4250 HDC. I dont have an HD TV in the beroom but now I can view all the HD channels from the bedroom that the digital box misses MAV, UHD, MGM, PALHD. The picture quality is improved too,, at least within the limits of the old SDTV. This is through S-Video connections Eventualy I'll snag a new HD flat panel for the bedroom.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17049645
> 
> 
> The HD box cost the same monthy fee to lease vs the digital box/digital service.



Interesting. When I brought my STB and exchanged it for the SA 8300 I was told there would be a price increase. Since I don't pay the bills I can't say for certain that there was or not.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17049745
> 
> 
> Interesting. When I brought my STB and exchanged it for the SA 8300 I was told there would be a price increase. Since I don't pay the bills I can't say for certain that there was or not.



The extra fee is for the DVR service. The equipment all costs the same, there's just a $5, maybe more now, DVR fee.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17050157
> 
> 
> The extra fee is for the DVR service. The equipment all costs the same, there's just a $5, maybe more now, DVR fee.



Five dollars a month for that three legged piece of garbage?










I asked my wife if she has been watching Big Brother. She said she keeps forgetting about it. Huh?


I got to take a look at it, I think that she's recording off the HD channel and if that's the case she may be out of disk space. I'm going to get back the 4250 if she isn't watching it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17050176
> 
> 
> Five dollars a month for that three legged piece of garbage?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked my wife if she has been watching Big Brother. She said she keeps forgetting about it. Huh?
> 
> 
> I got to take a look at it, I think that she's recording off the HD channel and if that's the case she may be out of disk space. I'm going to get back the 4250 if she isn't watching it.



Tell her to record it off the analog channel. Big Brother isn't even in HD so why record the HD channel?


You're complaining? I pay $5 a month for that navigator trash that gives me partial recordings. I'd love to have that 3 leg SARS box!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17050218
> 
> 
> Tell her to record it off the analog channel. Big Brother isn't even in HD so why record the HD channel?
> 
> 
> You're complaining? I pay $5 a month for that navigator trash that gives me partial recordings. I'd love to have that 3 leg SARS box!



I knew it was in SD and I thought it probably would be this year. I haven't looked at it so I don't know what channel she has it on.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17049130
> 
> 
> I don't think so. They are only doing this for the moto customers to get them to switch out.
> 
> 
> To be honest when I saw that part of the offer I laughed a bit. Wouldn't it just be like TW to screw up you used your coupon.
> 
> 
> Did you turn in your moto box before or have you always been with TW?



I had a cablecard. I switch for the box when I though we were getting SDV last year.


I will never believe Time Warner again.


----------



## GregF2

I was told all Eylria/Amherst, etc areas will be converted to the new boxes by Dec 15th. Sure is going to be a long process!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/17052171
> 
> 
> I was told all Eylria/Amherst, etc areas will be converted to the new boxes by Dec 15th. Sure is going to be a long process!



Heres a link to the thread with complete information:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=20287


----------



## Vchat20

So one idea that had crossed my mind lately as a last ditch chance to get any results, I am proposing the idea of sending in a written petition to TWC's NEO operation for some common sense and simple changes to improve things from (mostly) a technological perspective that would be well within their reach. This would be done in physical writing, by snail mail, and preferrably with legitimate signatures used from all involved. Online petitions just don't work nearly as well as getting a certified envelope with a lengthy letter and tons of signatures at their main office addressed to Mr. Fry (or some other likely responsible parties) and requiring it be signed for by a human.










I'm gonna try and work on a draft copy here shortly but so far I have the following bullet points in mind:

1. Cut out all analog programming but the locals and must carries like public access.

2. Move basic and expanded basic 2-99 programming to ClearQAM for use with the wide selection of capable tv sets and other consumer electronics manufacturered in the past 2-4 years often included as an added capability of ATSC capable equipment now mandated for the DTV switch.

3. For those customers without QAM capable equipment, offer up the same dumbed down basic digital tuners supplied by Cox and Comcast in their full-digital areas or older digital cable equipment such as the Pioneer Voyager line of DCT's. Preferrably free, a modest fee at a fraction of the cost of existing Digital Terminals, or 1 or 2 free dumbed down digital terminals with the rest being charged per terminal.

4. With the above changes, improve the channel usage in Switched Digital Video either by moving some channels off completely with the added bandwidth or move off channels with larger viewership and in their place put channels with much lower viewership. NOTE: This is only mandatory should the first 3 points be met and then only until the operation of Switched Digital Video in the combined Northeast Ohio TWC region is improved to spotless operation like other SDV-operating regions under TWC's corporate ownership.


Obviously that is missing some stuff, notably the request for additional HD channels which were promised back in April(?) and have been nonexistant the past two months.


I know it will probably be all for naught, but the effort involved would be fairly minimal outside of doing some 'offline' recruiting for signatures with other literate TWC haters you may know around you.


Lemme know what you think, give your opinions, additions, changes...

(For those wondering, I have slowly gotten irritated lately with TWC's ineptitude in this area and am THIS close to switching to Dish should the credit checking process on their site go through. The last straw has been the absolute ass quality of USAHD lately often being a PALTRY 8mbit for 1080i. And I am sure many of you feel the same and figured at least an ultimatum would be good to warn them of how upset most of us are and we are prepared to leave should things not improve in a timely fashion.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17065040
> 
> 
> So one idea that had crossed my mind lately as a last ditch chance to get any results, I am proposing the idea of sending in a written petition to TWC's NEO operation for some common sense and simple changes to improve things from (mostly) a technological perspective that would be well within their reach. This would be done in physical writing, by snail mail, and preferrably with legitimate signatures used from all involved. Online petitions just don't work nearly as well as getting a certified envelope with a lengthy letter and tons of signatures at their main office addressed to Mr. Fry (or some other likely responsible parties) and requiring it be signed for by a human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna try and work on a draft copy here shortly but so far I have the following bullet points in mind:
> 
> 1. Cut out all analog programming but the locals and must carries like public access.
> 
> 2. Move basic and expanded basic 2-99 programming to ClearQAM for use with the wide selection of capable tv sets and other consumer electronics manufacturered in the past 2-4 years often included as an added capability of ATSC capable equipment now mandated for the DTV switch.
> 
> 3. For those customers without QAM capable equipment, offer up the same dumbed down basic digital tuners supplied by Cox and Comcast in their full-digital areas or older digital cable equipment such as the Pioneer Voyager line of DCT's. Preferrably free, a modest fee at a fraction of the cost of existing Digital Terminals, or 1 or 2 free dumbed down digital terminals with the rest being charged per terminal.
> 
> 4. With the above changes, improve the channel usage in Switched Digital Video either by moving some channels off completely with the added bandwidth or move off channels with larger viewership and in their place put channels with much lower viewership. NOTE: This is only mandatory should the first 3 points be met and then only until the operation of Switched Digital Video in the combined Northeast Ohio TWC region is improved to spotless operation like other SDV-operating regions under TWC's corporate ownership.
> 
> 
> Obviously that is missing some stuff, notably the request for additional HD channels which were promised back in April(?) and have been nonexistant the past two months.
> 
> 
> I know it will probably be all for naught, but the effort involved would be fairly minimal outside of doing some 'offline' recruiting for signatures with other literate TWC haters you may know around you.
> 
> 
> Lemme know what you think, give your opinions, additions, changes...
> 
> (For those wondering, I have slowly gotten irritated lately with TWC's ineptitude in this area and am THIS close to switching to Dish should the credit checking process on their site go through. The last straw has been the absolute ass quality of USAHD lately often being a PALTRY 8mbit for 1080i. And I am sure many of you feel the same and figured at least an ultimatum would be good to warn them of how upset most of us are and we are prepared to leave should things not improve in a timely fashion.)



They must be getting a lot of complaints about pq. I got this email yesterday:

_Dear Time Warner Cable customer:


Each year, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) requires cable companies to send their customers a number of notices.


In the past, these notices have been included in your monthly billing statement. In an effort to serve you better, we will now send these FCC required notices via e-mail to those customers for whom we have an e-mail address.


Thank you for choosing Time Warner Cable. We appreciate your business and look forward to serving you for many years to come.






COMPLAINT RESOLUTION NOTIFICATION


In compliance with the requirements of Section 76.607 and 76.309 (c)(3) of the Federal Communications Commission rules, we are required to inform you that Time Warner Cable has in effect the following procedures to ensure that any complaints which may arise concerning your bill or the technical quality of the cable television signals delivered to you are promptly and effectively resolved.


Billing

If you have a question or problem with your bill, you should first call our Customer Service Department at the number listed on your bill and attempt to resolve the problem with one of our Customer Service Representatives.

If, after talking with a Customer Service Representative, you are still not satisfied, you should then send a copy of your bill, along with a letter explaining why you believe it is wrong, to: VP of Customer Care, Time Warner Cable, 5520 Whipple Avenue NW, North Canton, OH 44720.

A Customer Service Manager will attempt to contact you within 24 hours of receiving your letter, discuss the billing problem with you, and make every effort to promptly resolve the problem.
*Signal Quality

If you are having a problem with the signal quality of your cable service, you should first call our Service Department at the number listed on your bill. In many cases, the problem can be corrected while you are on the phone with the Service Department. However, it may be necessary to send a maintenance technician to your home.

If, after talking to our Service Department and/or having a technician visit your home, you are not satisfied that the problem has been resolved, you may put your complaint in writing to: VP of Operations, Time Warner Cable, 5520 Whipple Avenue NW North Canton, OH 44720.

All complaints received will be logged in with a notation as to the date, time and nature of the complaint, as well as the name, address and phone number of the subscriber involved. A system engineer will then analyze the complaint and all efforts will be made to resolve any complaints promptly and efficiently.*

If for some reason you are not satisfied with our response to your complaint, you may contact the cable coordinator of your appropriate franchise authority.
_


So in a nutshell what I get out of this letter is they are telling us if we want our disputes taking care of we have to Call customer service, have a truck roll, write a letter explaining what the problem is, wait until somebody eyballs your letter and gets back to you THEN you can complain to the franchise board which I guarantee will get you no where. Since the state is now the franchise board can you imagine how long it will take until they get to your problem?


Ridiculous.


My TiVo Playlist program is giving me better PQ on USA HD then what you are getting, comparatively speaking. However my eyes don't lie to me and I think USA HD looks like crap.


They simply are not going to take handing out boxes as a consideration. My contact made it clear to me that it's too cost consuming. Look at how they struggled just to take care of Elyria and you know eventually they are going to do the same for Mentor. Dumbed up boxes or not, they would still be the existing equipment and the cost is just too much money.


However I'd be happy to sign the petition. I can't be a distributor of the petition as all my neighbors are on satellite and I don't really know anyone other then you guys who use TW.


Most people are smarter then we are I guess.


----------



## Vchat20

Regarding USAHD, let me just say this much which gives an idea of hard numbers: I took about a 9 minute clip off a recording of Psych the other day via Firewire. Keep in mind this is bit for bit as it comes from the headend. The file is 9 minutes and 2 seconds exact or 542 seconds. The file size is 623 MB. 623/542 comes out to roughly 1.149MB/s or 9.192mbit/s average over that 9 minute span. Now in comparison ABC affiliates usually push an average of 10-13mbit/s for 720p and CBS and NBC usually do ~12-15 for 1080i depending on subchannel usage.

 __  


And yeah, I read that letter earlier on in this thread which really is BS because it ultimately just ends up right back at TWC's doorstep after the rigmarole so nothing gets done. In their defense though that references service quality which would be stuff like making sure the boxes work and don't reboot every 2 hours because of crappy lines out of the customers control. But if you want to be picky and pissy about it (I will!) the two pretty much go hand in hand. nick's SDV issues, dropouts and macroblocking out the a** even when the incoming signal is perfect. And I can't tell you how many times I have seen 'POOR SIGNAL' in green text on a black screen on my analog sets coming from their headend equipment specifically the satellite receivers where they get their content. If service quality is ****, picture quality is going to be DIRECTLY affected as a result.


----------



## Rbuchina

I had a wierd problem late yesturday evening with the video on my 8300 box. It was working fine earlier in the evening but I was on the PC for awhile and I was was using the PS3 for awhile too. When I went back to cable I had sound but no video. I changed the channel thinking it must be a network problem and all the channels would give sound but no video. The channel browse info banner was there and I could look at my list of recordings on the DVR but if I tried to play them only sound, no video. I shut it all down and went to bed forgeting about it this morning. My wafe called and said the cable was out this morning. I talked her through a "reboot". 15 minutes later she called me back and its fine now. Has anyone else had this problem?


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17066795
> 
> 
> I had a wierd problem late yesturday evening with the video on my 8300 box. It was working fine earlier in the evening but I was on the PC for awhile and I was was using the PS3 for awhile too. When I went back to cable I had sound but no video. I changed the channel thinking it must be a network problem and all the channels would give sound but no video. The channel browse info banner was there and I could look at my list of recordings on the DVR but if I tried to play them only sound, no video. I shut it all down and went to bed forgeting about it this morning. My wafe called and said the cable was out this morning. I talked her through a "reboot". 15 minutes later she called me back and its fine now. Has anyone else had this problem?
> 
> 
> Ray



Every once in a while these things will act up and a reboot like that will fix it. I've never seen anything quite like what you described. I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens continuously.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17066827
> 
> 
> Every once in a while these things will act up and a reboot like that will fix it. I've never seen anything quite like what you described. I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens continuously.



Hook,


When it happened last night I was hoping they were turning SDV on someting that would actually improve my service. I will just write it off as a PC like event that requires a reboot and hope it does not become a recurring problem.


Thanks

Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17067535
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> When it happened last night I was hoping they were turning SDV on someting that would actually improve my service. I will just write it off as a PC like event that requires a reboot and hope it does not become a recurring problem.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ray



When they add SDV that should be pretty seamless and unnoticeable. If I didn't know what day they were doing it on I'd never have known any better.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17065313
> 
> 
> Regarding USAHD, let me just say this much which gives an idea of hard numbers: I took about a 9 minute clip off a recording of Psych the other day via Firewire. Keep in mind this is bit for bit as it comes from the headend. The file is 9 minutes and 2 seconds exact or 542 seconds. The file size is 623 MB. 623/542 comes out to roughly 1.149MB/s or 9.192mbit/s average over that 9 minute span. Now in comparison ABC affiliates usually push an average of 10-13mbit/s for 720p and CBS and NBC usually do ~12-15 for 1080i depending on subchannel usage.
> 
> __
> 
> 
> And yeah, I read that letter earlier on in this thread which really is BS because it ultimately just ends up right back at TWC's doorstep after the rigmarole so nothing gets done. In their defense though that references service quality which would be stuff like making sure the boxes work and don't reboot every 2 hours because of crappy lines out of the customers control. But if you want to be picky and pissy about it (I will!) the two pretty much go hand in hand. nick's SDV issues, dropouts and macroblocking out the a** even when the incoming signal is perfect. And I can't tell you how many times I have seen 'POOR SIGNAL' in green text on a black screen on my analog sets coming from their headend equipment specifically the satellite receivers where they get their content. If service quality is ****, picture quality is going to be DIRECTLY affected as a result.



I'm glad you said something about this. I recorded Monk and Psych for the first time this week. I could not believe the garbage I watched. The picture quality was on the level of what you see on You Tube. Any fast movement was a mess of blocks. There is random blurriness/swampy looking picture and dark objects/backgrounds looked posterized. Honestly the analog channel would look better. And it only seems to be that channel, the others around it are not as bad. I don't know what they are doing to it but it HAS to be TWC. If the network sent out garbage like this from the source, there would be tons of screaming about it.


----------



## infoman1

I think we ALL should send complaint letters. Sadly after two trouble free weeks of cable service, no I am right back to the same ole. This one has a different twist though with the CCP Error code No SDV Bandwidth available. Simply put, your **** out of luck, can't recieve the intended channel, everythings in use, and this is NOT what I am paying for! I really can't move into the fall TV season with this ****. Direct TV is beginning to be a reality. Good think Hook I held off on the TIVO.


----------



## hookbill

I wanted to ***** last night about the cable but unfortunately the fact that the AC was took up most of my time. After reading infoman's post I guess I'm lucky just to get a picture.


Dodgers vs Rockies last night and this is a big, big game. The first 15 minutes of it was horrible pq was. Sound drop offs, pixelation. You name it. Two times the screen went grey completely like I had lost the channel and I had to channel up and channel back down (Per TiVo's instructions)







to get the picture back on.


After 30 minutes of this the game settled down and I could concentrate once again upon the fact that I had no air conditioning and it was 80 degrees in the house with a 98 % humidity factor.


And what am I thinking about with the air out? My birds? Naw, they are tropical. My wife? Eh, she's in New Jersey. I'm thinking all my god I wonder what this is doing to my TiVo's.


----------



## Rbuchina

Since my wife rebooted the 8300 yesturday afternoon for the "no picture problem" the tuner always goes back to channel 2 when started. It never used to do this. My 4250 does not do this. Any ideas? I will reboot it tomorrow to see what happens.


Ray


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17076996
> 
> 
> Since my wife rebooted the 8300 yesturday afternoon for the "no picture problem" the tuner always goes back to channel 2 when started. It never used to do this. My 4250 does not do this. Any ideas? I will reboot it tomorrow to see what happens.
> 
> 
> Ray



Before you reboot, check the setup function. It may have defaulted to channel 2. You should have the ability to set the startup channel to "last viewed" or a specific number.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/17078304
> 
> 
> Before you reboot, check the setup function. It may have defaulted to channel 2. You should have the ability to set the startup channel to "last viewed" or a specific number.



Thanks k2rj.


I did not know this was in the setup but will look at that when I get home.


Ray


----------



## nickdawg

The box always defaults to channel 2 after a reboot. That's normal operation.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17079962
> 
> 
> The box always defaults to channel 2 after a reboot. That's normal operation.




Nickdawg,


I dont seem to remeber this happening after any of my prior reboots (2-3). Tha's why I thought maybe something was going on in Mentor area. This is just a minor problem. I still cannot get the box to output only 1080i to eliminate the video delay with my monitor. I gave up awhile back when I recieved the instructions for holding select and whatever. Tried several times with no luck. I can get into the diagnostic screen though, which also starts with the select button.


Thanks for you input,


Ray


----------



## hookbill

I seem to remember a time when it was going to channel 2 but that stopped. I don't remember why or how. Now it just starts on whatever channel you leave it on.


I really can't imagine they are going to deliver SDV until after the switch out, at least that's what the letter said and that doesn't start until September.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17080350
> 
> 
> Nickdawg,
> 
> 
> I dont seem to remeber this happening after any of my prior reboots (2-3). Tha's why I thought maybe something was going on in Mentor area. This is just a minor problem. I still cannot get the box to output only 1080i to eliminate the video delay with my monitor. I gave up awhile back when I recieved the instructions for holding select and whatever. Tried several times with no luck. I can get into the diagnostic screen though, which also starts with the select button.
> 
> 
> Thanks for you input,
> 
> 
> Ray



To change the output formats: Go into "Settings", choose the category "Display" and select "Output Resolution". Under Output Resolution make sure there is only a dot by 1080i. This means only 1080i is active. Press "C" to "Save/Return".


That should fix it. I only have 1080i selected and I never have any delays in changing channels. Also, I'v noticed better picture on the SDTV channels too.


----------



## scnrfrq

I've been having problems with 2 of our local HD channels in Erie, PA. These stations are owned by the same company and TW gets a direct feed from them. The channels breakup and pixelate badly, both on the DVR and QAM. This happens on all 3 of my HD TV's.Other channels look OK. I can't believe this is confined only to my house, since other channels are OK. Is it more likely a systemwide problem in this area?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17082248
> 
> 
> I've been having problems with 2 of our local HD channels in Erie, PA. These stations are owned by the same company and TW gets a direct feed from them. The channels breakup and pixelate badly, both on the DVR and QAM. This happens on all 3 of my HD TV's.Other channels look OK. I can't believe this is confined only to my house, since other channels are OK. Is it more likely a systemwide problem in this area?



Look at your screen diagnostics and see if they're on the same QAM frequency, then check that frequency against the OTA broadcasters in your area. You might have ingress on that channel.


----------



## hookbill

If it is ingress isn't it up to TW to fix it?


I would have them come out and check it. BTW what channels are they?


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17082314
> 
> 
> If it is ingress isn't it up to TW to fix it?
> 
> 
> I would have them come out and check it. BTW what channels are they?



Channel 412 (WICU HD NBC) and 405 (WSEE HD CBS).


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17082270
> 
> 
> Look at your screen diagnostics and see if they're on the same QAM frequency, then check that frequency against the OTA broadcasters in your area. You might have ingress on that channel.



QAM frequency seems to be 735 on all the channels I've checked?


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17080992
> 
> 
> To change the output formats: Go into "Settings", choose the category "Display" and select "Output Resolution". Under Output Resolution make sure there is only a dot by 1080i. This means only 1080i is active. Press "C" to "Save/Return".
> 
> 
> That should fix it. I only have 1080i selected and I never have any delays in changing channels. Also, I'v noticed better picture on the SDTV channels too.



Nickdawg,


My 8300 does not have this in its setup. I did not think it was there, I could change it through setup on my old Moto box.


I think I am suppose to..


press and hold the select button until the message Light blinks


Press the Volume --- button and the LED should display HdSr but mine never does that.


If the LED showed the Hdsr than I should press VOL+ to lock in 1080i


Thanks for the suggestion though.


Ray


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17083763
> 
> 
> Nickdawg,
> 
> 
> My 8300 does not have this in its setup. I did not think it was there, I could change it through setup on my old Moto box.
> 
> 
> I think I am suppose to..
> 
> 
> press and hold the select button until the message Light blinks
> 
> 
> Press the Volume --- button and the LED should display HdSr but mine never does that.
> 
> 
> If the LED showed the Hdsr than I should press VOL+ to lock in 1080i
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion though.
> 
> 
> Ray



I'm confused. How doesn't the box have that in the settings menu?


I've never heard of setting the output formats that way before. Who suggested that?


----------



## nickdawg

Also, I just rebooted the box while pushing buttons on the front of it, trying that Vol+ thing. When I turned it on, the box was on channel 2. That is normal.


----------



## wd8kct

Another RFI possibility from the CGC Communicator
 -Ed


CELL PHONE RFI IMPACTS COX CABLE BOX


I've had picture breakup on my Cox cable box (s/a high

definition DVR) for a year. Good cable signal at the box, no

uncorrected data for hours, then the sound and picture suddenly

went away. Only certain channels were affected.


My cellphone (a Palm Centro with AT&T) was the culprit.

When I wasn't using the phone, it periodically "checked in"

with the cellsite and caused the obliteration. Then I discovered

that placing a call from the couch 8' from the box also trigger

the problem.


My other AT&T phone (an LG flip phone), Cox tech's AT&T

phone, and his company's Sprint phone had no effect on the box,

even when placed right on top of the box.


Changed phones, kept AT&T, and the problem went away.


Anonymous, San Diego


----------



## Vchat20

So I have up a fairly basic draft copy of the previous mentioned petition for review:

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dftc8d5g_147ccr6vgb 


Heavy critiquing is welcome as to get this done right should I get enough signatures for this and actually send it out.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17088239
> 
> 
> So I have up a fairly basic draft copy of the previous mentioned petition for review



Looks like a good start, but I suggest a few semantic changes:



> Quote:
> other than band-aide solutions



- aside from temporary work-arounds on a per-customer basis



> Quote:
> (a) The sketchy operation



- Unreliable quality



> Quote:
> Cut out all analog programming but



- Cease transmission of all analog programming other than


I see a few other things that could be worded better, but it's time to go off to sleepy-land. I'll take another look at this tomorrow.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17088239
> 
> 
> So I have up a fairly basic draft copy of the previous mentioned petition for review:
> 
> http://docs.google.com/View?id=dftc8d5g_147ccr6vgb
> 
> ...............................



As much as I sympathise and agree with the premise of the petition, I think it will likely be a waste of time.









But at least you are doing something and taking action, I admire that.










To add more "bite" you may want to cc the Ohio Attorney General and PUCO (is that the correct authority for cable TV?).


Another option is to take your completed petition to any/all NEO media outlets (print, web, air, etc..) and hope they run with it. Where is Nickdawgs best bud Carl Monday when you need him??










Though, from experience, I can tell you that local media is always reluctant to do negative pieces on "their customer". i.e. Ads & media buys from TWC. The more that customer spends with that outlet, the more reluctant that outlet is to allow negative press.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17088762
> 
> 
> As much as I sympathise and agree with the premise of the petition, I think it will likely be a waste of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But at least you are doing something and taking action, I admire that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To add more "bite" you may want to cc the Ohio Attorney General and PUCO (is that the correct authority for cable TV?).
> 
> 
> Another option is to take your completed petition to any/all NEO media outlets (print, web, air, etc..) and hope they run with it. Where is Nickdawgs best bud Carl Monday when you need him??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though, from experience, I can tell you that local media is always reluctant to do negative pieces on "their customer". i.e. Ads & media buys from TWC. The more that customer spends with that outlet, the more reluctant that outlet is to allow negative press.



PUCO actually handles the complaints anyway. There is a group of about three people who actually are in the cable company franchising group but you can contact PUCO and your complaint is suppose to be handled.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17089671
> 
> 
> Just a minor add include the Western PA region



He really can't. This is for Ohio, how you do your franchising for your cable is probably different and has to be taken up with someone in your state, county, or city.


----------



## Vchat20

Ok, I have made some additions and changes just now. Mostly minor, but worth checking out.

-----



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17089912
> 
> 
> He really can't. This is for Ohio, how you do your franchising for your cable is probably different and has to be taken up with someone in your state, county, or city.



Yeah. Hookbill's right. I would do this, but if this is gonna be sent to the PUCO and the Ohio AG, it automatically nips the possibility.


Though with the strange setup of such a small piece of Northwest PA being part of the Northeast Ohio region of TWC's operations, I wonder if there's any exceptions given?


In either case: /IF/ this goes anywhere, customers in NW PA will most likely be affected just the same being under TWC's operations here. So feel free to sign this when the time comes about even if you are not an Ohio resident. Technically you are a customer of TWC's operations which are being called out here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17089019
> 
> 
> PUCO actually handles the complaints anyway. There is a group of about three people who actually are in the cable company franchising group but you can contact PUCO and your complaint is suppose to be handled.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17088762
> 
> 
> As much as I sympathise and agree with the premise of the petition, I think it will likely be a waste of time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But at least you are doing something and taking action, I admire that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To add more "bite" you may want to cc the Ohio Attorney General and PUCO (is that the correct authority for cable TV?).
> 
> 
> Another option is to take your completed petition to any/all NEO media outlets (print, web, air, etc..) and hope they run with it. Where is Nickdawgs best bud Carl Monday when you need him??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though, from experience, I can tell you that local media is always reluctant to do negative pieces on "their customer". i.e. Ads & media buys from TWC. The more that customer spends with that outlet, the more reluctant that outlet is to allow negative press.



Yeah, these have been some options I have been thinking about. Considering the coverage, I wouldn't go for every last media outlet but rather pick and choose some of the larger ones whom would probably create the largest impact.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17088576
> 
> 
> Looks like a good start, but I suggest a few semantic changes:
> 
> 
> - aside from temporary work-arounds on a per-customer basis
> 
> 
> - Unreliable quality
> 
> 
> - Cease transmission of all analog programming other than
> 
> 
> I see a few other things that could be worded better, but it's time to go off to sleepy-land. I'll take another look at this tomorrow.



Thanks, greatly appreciated.







Would love to know if any of the rest of it needs adjustments in the wording department.


More than anything I am gearing towards putting some fear into those in charge of operations at TWC and getting them on track to actually bring this tinkertoy set they call a cable system into the present rather than the 80s. I understand they acquired major messes from Comcast and Adelphia, but this has long been done and gone and they have had ample time to bring it all on the same page. If it does get some immediate changes, that is a bonus. Given the realistic assumption that it isn't gonna gain the full intended effect in the writing.


----------



## bassguitarman

Since its been so quiet here, the last few evenings I've been getting the dreaded channel not available return to previous channel message in the middle of the HD tier. For example last night on AMCHD. I came back to it later and it was there.

Former Adelphia area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17113444
> 
> 
> Since its been so quiet here, the last few evenings I've been getting the dreaded channel not available return to previous channel message in the middle of the HD tier. For example last night on AMCHD. I came back to it later and it was there.
> 
> Former Adelphia area.



I'm not getting that. I can't say specifically for AMCHD but I'm not seeing it on MLBnet at all. If this continues you could have an issue at the hub.


Just an observation yesterday. We talked about how SDV works and kind of came to the conclusion that it works by polling. Yesterday at precisely 4:35 pm again I got the "Are you still watching....." message on MLBnet. I've observed this to happen right around the 4:30 time mark but that was the first time I caught it right away. I'm going to try and see if it comes on again at 4:35 pm today.


----------



## shooter21198

ESPN/2 HD were out for awhile today they still might be out


----------



## Jim Gilliland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17116577
> 
> 
> ESPN/2 HD were out for awhile today they still might be out



They're both out for me as of 5PM. Very frustrating - I almost never watch either of those channels, but when the US Open is on, suddenly they matter to me. I'm definitely not a happy T/W customer today.


Edit: Their customer service number says that they know about the problem. No estimate on fixing it, though.


----------



## hookbill

Yep, they are out at hookbill's house too.


Jim is there such a thing as a "happy" TW customer? If anyone is happy with this garbage, not just today I mean every day, then they simply have never seen decent television.


I called the customer service line and apparently it isn't just ESPN/2 there are other channels involved. Prerecorded message seems to indicate this.


"Our engineers are working on this......No need to stay on the phone."


And no need to provide their customers decent service.


----------



## nickdawg

TWC can kiss my balls!! Not only is it September and no new HD channels even announced, they're putting more existing channels on that SDV abomination. I noticed the channel FUSE - 258 was off the air. Today I check the screen and I was right, they made it SDV!! Great, next time the episodes of Loaded featuring Rise Against and Blink 182 are on back to back and I want to record both, will those recordings fall victim to that "Navigator SDV recording bug"?


How nice, TWC only exists to piss me off. They take one of the only channels I ever watch in the Digital Tier and make it ASSDV!!! I went a few channels up and down, CMT, GAC and MTV Jams(they can JAM that channel up their ASS!) are not SDV. Neither is the fxcking Gospel Music Channel where the audio is about 30 dB louder.


This company deserves to go bankrupt and everyone who works there should be fired.


That is all.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17117275
> 
> 
> Yep, they are out at hookbill's house too.
> 
> 
> Jim is there such a thing as a "happy" TW customer? If anyone is happy with this garbage, not just today I mean every day, then they simply have never seen decent television.
> 
> 
> I called the customer service line and apparently it isn't just ESPN/2 there are other channels involved. Prerecorded message seems to indicate this.
> 
> 
> "Our engineers are working on this......No need to stay on the phone."
> 
> 
> And no need to provide their customers decent service.



And guess what, my ESP2HD also doesn't work. I wonder if they are going to make that one ASS-DV too? I hope they do, and I hope the channel goes out on Saturday afternoon. Let TWC deal with an angry mob of college football fans.


----------



## hookbill

HD channels still down. Includes all channels that are NOT on SDV except locals. And this has been going on all day? How is this even possible?


As far as additional HD channels go nickdawg what good does it do to add HD channels that are crap in quality? Since all additional HD channels will more then likely be SDV we are getting crap no matter what they give us.


And so long as they keep analog available you can bet channels like MTV will not go SDV....Unless TW decides to move that to it's level 2 digital channels.


It wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## 2PuttChuck

Gotta feel bad for all the US Open Tennis fans who dvr'd today's matches on ESPN2HD to watch when they got home tonight. I understand there were some good matches, with top seeded women getting beat and the Williams sisters playing doubles.


----------



## nickdawg

GREAT!! Now USA HD doesn't work AGAIN!! Now I have only SDV HD channels and no regular linear HD channels. I find my self asking more and more: "Is this for real or is this some kind of bad joke"? How the hell can a company like this be allowed to operate? This is not the TWC I had three years ago.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17117791
> 
> 
> HD channels still down. Includes all channels that are NOT on SDV except locals. And this has been going on all day? How is this even possible?
> 
> 
> As far as additional HD channels go nickdawg what good does it do to add HD channels that are crap in quality? Since all additional HD channels will more then likely be SDV we are getting crap no matter what they give us.
> 
> 
> And so long as they keep analog available you can bet channels like MTV will not go SDV....Unless TW decides to move that to it's level 2 digital channels.
> 
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me.



Only reason why I mention adding channels is that over the last few weeks my SDV channels have been working OK. It's only today I noticed ESP2 and the other linear HD channels.


Also, I was talking about MTV Jams, a separate channel that plays rap/hip hop videos all day. Hence the reason why they can "jam it up their ass".







It is a Digital Tier channel, so it should be SDV, and might eventually be.


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of things that grind my gears, I hope WKYC loses the Browns rights very soon. C'mon Romona, broadcast some 911 phone call audio like WOIO did. I'm sick to death of these constant dumping of regular programming for preseason bull----. On Saturday night WKY-See The Stupidity dumped a *NEW* NBC special presentation about the 25th Anniversary of Wrestlemania. And they never rebroadcast it. They showed almost nine hours of infomercials after SNL that night.


----------



## nickdawg

How stupid is WKYC? Let me count the ways... Tonight, we are treated to Tonight Show with Conan and the entire latenight lineup in standard definition all because the fncking 11pm news ran *six* minutes over!! Instead of cutting six minutes of their newscast out or maybe not showing as many commercials, they decided to start TTS late. It's tape delayed by SIX effing minutes!! They keep raising the bar in stupidity.


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg is in a ranting mood.










I see the HD channels are back.


----------



## nickdawg

Look at the new signature line.


But seriously, these people cannot piss me off enough. Sandera Bullock on Conan will be SD, that's a crime. I'm gonna miss the standup comedian at the end since the show will be running over into that talentless hack's time slot, and I flip over to CBS at 12:37 for Ferguson.


There is no excuse for this. I put on their news at 11 exactly, the post game crap was still running. CUT IT OFF!! Isn't that why we have something called Sportstime Ohio? Why does this have to be on broadcast TV? It's a sucky team's preseason. The Office repeats that were on NBC tonight would have been better.


Also this past week WKYC proudly displayed their new look on their set. They added stupid flat screen TVs in the newsroom. You can barely see them in the distance behind Romona's head. How nice, I wonder how many people had to lose their jobs and how many more will be on furlough to pay for that? What a shameful thing to be done by a TV Station owned by a weak newspaper company circling the drain. Lydia Esparra, Tim White and countless others behind the scenes lost their jobs because of money and cuts, yet they afford useless set improvements.


It's no surprise Conan started late, Gannet Ca$h Whore$ wouldn't dream of cutting out commercials.


And the WKYCtards showed their stupid local commercial in HD. What an insult! I'm insulted.


----------



## hookbill

I have to admit it doesn't make sense. Why not just cut the news by 6 minutes?


I noticed the signature earlier.


I don't know why but my game tonight has been flawless tonight. It should be like this every night.


----------



## nickdawg

The SDV channels have been OK for me as well. I watch CNN HD every day, no problems. The other channels I watch less frequently have been OK as well. That's why I want more channels. I want MSNBC HD. It's not fair that we have FOX HD but not MSNBC HD. And CNBC is totally worthless.


----------



## hookbill

I have no doubt that the HD channels are coming. They're not moving all those channels to SDV just because they feel like it. I too would like to see MSNBC in HD.


----------



## dmking12370




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17119220
> 
> 
> Look at the new signature line.
> 
> 
> But seriously, these people cannot piss me off enough. Sandera Bullock on Conan will be SD, that's a crime. I'm gonna miss the standup comedian at the end since the show will be running over into that talentless hack's time slot, and I flip over to CBS at 12:37 for Ferguson.
> 
> 
> There is no excuse for this. I put on their news at 11 exactly, the post game crap was still running. CUT IT OFF!! Isn't that why we have something called Sportstime Ohio? Why does this have to be on broadcast TV? It's a sucky team's preseason. The Office repeats that were on NBC tonight would have been better.
> 
> 
> Also this past week WKYC proudly displayed their new look on their set. They added stupid flat screen TVs in the newsroom. You can barely see them in the distance behind Romona's head. How nice, I wonder how many people had to lose their jobs and how many more will be on furlough to pay for that? What a shameful thing to be done by a TV Station owned by a weak newspaper company circling the drain. Lydia Esparra, Tim White and countless others behind the scenes lost their jobs because of money and cuts, yet they afford useless set improvements.
> 
> 
> It's no surprise Conan started late, Gannet Ca$h Whore$ wouldn't dream of cutting out commercials.
> 
> 
> And the WKYCtards showed their stupid local commercial in HD. What an insult! I'm insulted.



NFL rules dictate that games are broadcast on OTA television. Always have, and always will. Even when games are broadcast on cable (i.e. ESPN), the rules dictate that the games are offered to a OTA station in the local market. This rule isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It is to the benefit of all.


And as far as your suggestion that WKYC gets dumped as the home of the Browns, that would be the worst thing for this city. We already had to endure 19's pissy ass coverage. I don't think 5 is physically able to handle the broadcasts (given their crappy HD product). 43 would be just like 19, and 55 won't do it.


Look at it on the bright side. Preseason is now over with, and the Browns games will be on 8 or 19. KYC still has the Indians (and they have a game tomorrow night in primetime that they were supposed to air on Tuesday).


----------



## nickdawg

Oh no, I wouldn't want it on WOIO either. WOIO is CBS and I like CBS. They also used to dump CBS programming without rebroadcasting it.


In a perfect world it would go to channel 5. The primetime programming on ABC sucks, that makes them more than qualified to carry the Browns.


----------



## Vchat20

I guess the mess must have been pretty widespread then. All the non-SDV HD channels except the locals have been out here today while the SDV channels have been flawless. Thought it was me because lately I've noticed the receive power on my cable modem has spiked from a normal -1 to +1 to around +7 to +8. Mildly happy to find out it wasn't just me.


So who the frack started this mess up at the funny farm?


Hey nick: Have you tried doing a QAM scan on your set at any point to see if the youngstown stations come in for you as well? I know you loathe TWC with a passion, but all the locals coming across should be untouched. And I have an odd feeling the QAMs are the same for the whole NEO region just different channel lineups on the boxes. So if that part is true, you should be able to pick up WFMJ, WKBN, WYTV, and WYFX. Though WFMJ is hardly preferable to WKYC for HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17119423
> 
> 
> I guess the mess must have been pretty widespread then. All the non-SDV HD channels except the locals have been out here today while the SDV channels have been flawless. Thought it was me because lately I've noticed the receive power on my cable modem has spiked from a normal -1 to +1 to around +7 to +8. Mildly happy to find out it wasn't just me.
> 
> 
> So who the frack started this mess up at the funny farm?
> 
> 
> Hey nick: Have you tried doing a QAM scan on your set at any point to see if the youngstown stations come in for you as well? I know you loathe TWC with a passion, but all the locals coming across should be untouched. And I have an odd feeling the QAMs are the same for the whole NEO region just different channel lineups on the boxes. So if that part is true, you should be able to pick up WFMJ, WKBN, WYTV, and WYFX. Though WFMJ is hardly preferable to WKYC for HD.



Huh? I'd say just about every Y-town station is preferable to the Cleveland counterpart. I once got to watch WKBN-HD, their newscast and programming lineup is like a network O&O in comparison to WOIO. They even have HD syndication. WFMJ doesn't dump network programming for crappy sports teams---that's good enough for me. Plus Conan would have been HD. And they showed the WWE special last Saturday.


WKYC is so disrespectful to their viewers, unless they like crappy Cleveland sports. I cannot count how many times over the past four years WKYC has totally pissed on part or all of the Action Sports tour on NBC. Thanks to the Saturday/Sunday Indians games, they either totally preempt or JIP. Except for the week the Dew tour was in Cleveland, then WKYC is the biggest skateboarding fan in the world! And Chuck, they dumped the second to last episode of the season(and almost the series!) to show that snoozefest about space exploration and Cleveland. Unless they shot the rocket by Lake Erie shore, STFU! And the WWE event last week. It was NEW. It was advertised multiple times on the NBC network. I can't get over them not showing new programming. I hope this doesn't become the norm as the new season starts.


My required positive point of the day, I did get to see an awesome Shadows Fall performance on Jimmy Fallon I wouldn't have seen if the show wasn't late.


----------



## Vchat20

I only say WFMJ and possibly the rest of the low budget networks over here are bad for HD is because even though they don't interupt shows COMPLETELY, when any kind of graphics come up on the screen the show will dump to a pillarboxed SD feed to accomodate the graphics. I know when L&O:SVU was still in full tilt WFMJ would ALWAYS kick up the tuesday night lottery numbers right in the middle of the show and screw up the recording with an ugly feed. This is why I catch all the NBC shows on WKYC these days. At least I've never witnessed them screwing over primetime programming.


----------



## bassguitarman

Assuming the dvr's such as the 8300HD even have this feature.

Yet another thing for TWC to mess up.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...s-from-fcc.ars


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17120797
> 
> 
> Assuming the dvr's such as the 8300HD even have this feature.
> 
> Yet another thing for TWC to mess up.
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...s-from-fcc.ars



I don't understand that article. TW already restricts us on our copying rights on ALL digital transmissions with the exception of local broadcasters. So since TW is already doing this there is no need for anything to change.


----------



## bassguitarman

This would disable the component outputs (analog) on "restricted broadcasts". Since I have an older hdtv with only component inputs it would turn them off. Since I dont buy the for pay selections I can see them accidentally turning of my set even though the broadcasts arent restricted.


----------



## bassguitarman

Ohio Media Watch just said Steve Fry has left TWC
http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/


----------



## amtrak23

I can't take this anymore...

Just trying to watch ESPN/2, a lot of pixelation and lockups for 2-3 seconds at a time. How do I know if this is from TW or from ESPN originally? To date I don't think I have watched one TV show without any pixelation at all... This can't be normal.


Oh, and still no credit like I was told I would get on our next bill... I love getting the run-around...


----------



## nickdawg

Did everyone hear the good news? Frylock is stepping down as _der fuhrer_ at TWC NEO!! I'm so excited, I hope the next generation of management that will be replacing the Frytard will fix the clusterf--k the operation currently is. Also, considering this is the NUMBER THREE TWC SYSTEM in the nation behind NY and LA, I hope TWC will take the lead of New York and kill analog cable.


Bye bye Mr. Fry!! Don't let the door hit you in the ASS on the way out! Wouldn't want to bruise that brain!


----------



## nickdawg

Apparently WKYC read my comments last night and they really want to screw me tonight. Conan last night was beautiful compared to the garbage tonight. Now there's a picture surrounded by black bars on WKYC HD. How nice! I'm OK with wasting two sides of the screen, but I HATE, HATE, HATE when all four sides of the screen are wasted. Why can't they give us a beautiful 4:3 picture on Southland like the Conan show last night?


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17124598
> 
> 
> Apparently WKYC read my comments last night and they really want to screw me tonight. Conan last night was beautiful compared to the garbage tonight. Now there's a picture surrounded by black bars on WKYC HD. How nice! I'm OK with wasting two sides of the screen, but I HATE, HATE, HATE when all four sides of the screen are wasted. Why can't they give us a beautiful 4:3 picture on Southland like the Conan show last night?



Which night was that Nick? On Cox-Cleveland the only screwed-up show was after the football practice.


Why is it that we can record a show at home and play it back in HD, but a TV station can't? (WKYC is not the only Cleveland station with this problem)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/17126957
> 
> 
> Which night was that Nick? On Cox-Cleveland the only screwed-up show was after the football practice.
> 
> 
> Why is it that we can record a show at home and play it back in HD, but a TV station can't? (WKYC is not the only Cleveland station with this problem)



It's just not the same thing as recording to a DVR. The process is much more complexed. This has been discussed back when the OTA thread and TW thread were one.


Seems simple on the surface but harder in reality.


----------



## amtrak23

While getting some work done today I had The Matrix on...It was A&E HD. Now, I wasn't watching since I was working on my PC majority of the time...but nearly every time I looked up I would see the screen chopped in half horizontally and the top/bottom picture being misaligned. I couldn't rewind and pause on the exact spot so I replayed in slow motion and recorded it on my Vado.


This is the worse I have seen the pixelation/choppiness/PQ, etc., or whatever it is called. It's not just AE that has problems, it really seems like anytime I'm watching anything I notice silly stuff happening. Some days are better than others, but there is almost always something that can be seen... what causes this and what exactly can I tell them when I call in to report this crap again?


See clip here for a visual: http://www.mediafire.com/?juim3mm3vun


----------



## Mister Pie

Right now, ESPN2 and ESPN News are playing the EXACT same programming. I talked to a technician and apparently they're having issues with multiple channels right now. I was told that it will resolve "soon". What the hell is wrong with TWC?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/17126957
> 
> 
> Which night was that Nick? On Cox-Cleveland the only screwed-up show was after the football practice.
> 
> 
> Why is it that we can record a show at home and play it back in HD, but a TV station can't? (WKYC is not the only Cleveland station with this problem)



Friday. Southland was at 10pm. And they rebroadcast Dateline at 3:05AM.


Timeshifting HD programming on the affiliate level is more complicated. It shouldn't be, but it is. The station has to have HD recording equipment(which WKYC does) and enough hard drive space to hold the HD content. Again, WKYC has both of these since they broadcast Dr. Phil, ET and many local commercials and news segments in HD. They even produce "specials" in HD, like that infamous space show that bumped Chuck in the spring. I'm not sure what the reason behind WKYC is, other than they don't care. WEWS, OTOH, records network programming in HD and even has network promos in HD outside of ABC time along with local commercials/promos. HD just isn't a priority at 'KYC, which was obvious back when they used to stretch SD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17123487
> 
> 
> Did everyone hear the good news? Frylock is stepping down as _der fuhrer_ at TWC NEO!! I'm so excited, I hope the next generation of management that will be replacing the Frytard will fix the clusterf--k the operation currently is. Also, considering this is the NUMBER THREE TWC SYSTEM in the nation behind NY and LA, I hope TWC will take the lead of New York and kill analog cable.
> 
> 
> Bye bye Mr. Fry!! Don't let the door hit you in the ASS on the way out! Wouldn't want to bruise that brain!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17122082
> 
> 
> Ohio Media Watch just said Steve Fry has left TWC
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/




Yep just read that my self and for the record its Vin Zachariah that is replacing him. A little harder to remember but I imagine his email is [email protected] . Lets get that out there, he's the man now.


In a way I kind of respect Fry. He didn't have a college education and he became President of TW cable. He was an installer to start with for Adelphia apparently.


But I imagine the pressure to perform has gotten to him. Hell, he's only 58. Either that or he was over payed and TW offered him a package or an unemployment check.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mister Pie* /forum/post/17128032
> 
> 
> Right now, ESPN2 and ESPN News are playing the EXACT same programming. I talked to a technician and apparently they're having issues with multiple channels right now. I was told that it will resolve "soon". What the hell is wrong with TWC?



The question isn't what's wrong with TWC, it's what's right with them?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17121678
> 
> 
> This would disable the component outputs (analog) on "restricted broadcasts". Since I have an older hdtv with only component inputs it would turn them off. Since I dont buy the for pay selections I can see them accidentally turning of my set even though the broadcasts arent restricted.



That would cost TW a heck of a lot of money considering the ton of SA 8000 boxes that are apparently still running. In addition they would have to provide either DVI or HDMI cables, and I'll bet they never heard of monoprice.


Also right now to the best of my knowledge the DVI on the SA8000 is inactive.


Ultimately the cost would be passed to the consumer so that it doesn't interfere with there profit margin.


----------



## abcmatt

I'm a new member and I didn't know where else to ask this question, so I hope I can ask it here. I have a 19" Memorex 720p LCD HDTV and I can get 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, and 55 in HD without a box. I do have cable though. The problem is that 3 and 19 always are fine in HD for sports but 5 and 8 the picture is always breaking up for sports. Wipeout, college football and the NBA picture are constantly breaking up where I can't even watch those in HD. Would this be because of my TV or that I don't have a cable box?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17130134
> 
> 
> I'm a new member and I didn't know where else to ask this question, so I hope I can ask it here. I have a 19" Memorex 720p LCD HDTV and I can get 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, and 55 in HD without a box. I do have cable though. The problem is that 3 and 19 always are fine in HD for sports but 5 and 8 the picture is always breaking up for sports. Wipeout, college football and the NBA picture are constantly breaking up where I can't even watch those in HD. Would this be because of my TV or that I don't have a cable box?



We discuss quality of TW's picture frequently. Break up in sports does happen from time to time but as to who's fault it is it's hard to say. Probably not your TV's fault, specially with a 19" screen. It's more likely to happen on the larger screen.


So is it TW's fault? Maybe. This is more likely to occur on a Switched Digital Video channel and that wouldn't affect you without a box. It could also be the networks.


Interesting that you have a 720p television, because both the networks you describe broadcast in 720p. The ones you are not having problems with are in 1080i.


One last question. You say you are getting these channels off the cable but you didn't mention if you are using qam or not. Are you actually getting the HD channels or just their digital counterparts? HD channels would be 403, 404 (19), 405, 408. Don't know what they are via qam.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17130194
> 
> 
> One last question. You say you are getting these channels off the cable but you didn't mention if you are using qam or not. Are you actually getting the HD channels or just their digital counterparts? HD channels would be 403, 404 (19), 405, 408. Don't know what they are via qam.



TWC doesn't send the 480i digital locals in the clear. At least I have never seen them. Only channels you get these days are the HD locals and 480i locals ONLY for channels that are actually in 480i like some subchannels and some secondary locals out of cleveland. So I'd assume he's getting the HD's here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17130297
> 
> 
> TWC doesn't send the 480i digital locals in the clear. At least I have never seen them. Only channels you get these days are the HD locals and 480i locals ONLY for channels that are actually in 480i like some subchannels and some secondary locals out of cleveland. So I'd assume he's getting the HD's here.



I would assume so too but and I mean no disrespect to abcmatt in saying this, I imagine there is a certain segment of the population that would purchase a small HD television and see a digital picture and assume it's HD. Some people don't realize the difference.


My wife for example wouldn't have any idea if it wasn't for me what an HD channel is opposed to a digital picture.


The digital picture on my little 19" Sammy looks pretty good. HD is definitely better but on a small screen like that it looks pretty darn good. Local channels in Adelphia land would be an exception of course.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17130134
> 
> 
> I'm a new member and I didn't know where else to ask this question, so I hope I can ask it here. I have a 19" Memorex 720p LCD HDTV and I can get 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, and 55 in HD without a box. I do have cable though. The problem is that 3 and 19 always are fine in HD for sports but 5 and 8 the picture is always breaking up for sports. Wipeout, college football and the NBA picture are constantly breaking up where I can't even watch those in HD. Would this be because of my TV or that I don't have a cable box?



abcmatt, you can use your tv's built-in diagnostics to assist with troubleshooting. Go to one of the good channels and make note of the signal level and signal-to-noise, then go to 5 or 8 and make note of the same parameters. Signal level for an HD QAM should be between +15dbmv and -12dbmv, preferably between 0 and +5. Signal to noise should be in the upper 30s. If the bad channels fall outside of these ranges, you've got a signal level issue on the affected frequencies. If that's the culprit, you can start with replacing the (usually poor quality) jumper that came with the TV set with a good quality RG-6 jumper, the kind that uses digicon style connectors. These are rated for flat frequency response and low reflections.


If it's not a local signal issue, call customer service and report it. They can look at the signal on those qams from their end.


Good luck and let us know what happens!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17130297
> 
> 
> TWC doesn't send the 480i digital locals in the clear. At least I have never seen them.



It's been a while since I did a QAM scan, but last time I did, we had the 480i digital downconvert SD channels for all the locals that get that treatment (3/5/8/19/43).


This is the former Adelphia/Cleveland system. I seem to recall it is indeed different on your side of things.


abcmatt didn't tell us where he is, so we can only guess until he clarifies.


----------



## hookbill

Apparently pretty low. For years I've dialed 877.772.2253 from my Vonage home phone for customer service. The other day when the non SDV HD channels went out I wanted to see if there was a message about it on the customer service line. I used my speed dial to dial the above number. I got a message saying "This number cannot be dialed from this phone."


I thought it was some sort of service error that would correct itself in a 24 hour period. I waited until this morning and tried it again and got the same message.


I believe that TW is no longer accepting VoIP from any service other then there own, probably in an attempt to have you purchase phone service from them. It actually occurred to me the other day when I called the number but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.


No problem calling from my wireless phone.


Anybody with Vonage or any other VoIP want to test that number and see if they get through?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17134493
> 
> 
> Apparently pretty low. For years I've dialed 877.772.2253 from my Vonage home phone for customer service. The other day when the non SDV HD channels went out I wanted to see if there was a message about it on the customer service line. I used my speed dial to dial the above number. I got a message saying "This number cannot be dialed from this phone."
> 
> 
> I thought it was some sort of service error that would correct itself in a 24 hour period. I waited until this morning and tried it again and got the same message.
> 
> 
> I believe that TW is no longer accepting VoIP from any service other then there own, probably in an attempt to have you purchase phone service from them. It actually occurred to me the other day when I called the number but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> No problem calling from my wireless phone.
> 
> 
> Anybody with Vonage or any other VoIP want to test that number and see if they get through?



Hookbill, I think that's a routing issue on Vonage's side. Have you tried contacting them about this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17135673
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I think that's a routing issue on Vonage's side. Have you tried contacting them about this?



Heh heh, It very well could be Vonage but I don't have a forum to kick them around in.










I've had times with 800 numbers when it didn't work but usually in a few hours it does. Never seen it go days like this.


OK Kid, since you are in the know and all I'll take back my slanderous accusations. Let me try another number and I'll post back.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17131656
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I did a QAM scan, but last time I did, we had the 480i digital downconvert SD channels for all the locals that get that treatment (3/5/8/19/43).
> 
> 
> This is the former Adelphia/Cleveland system. I seem to recall it is indeed different on your side of things.
> 
> 
> abcmatt didn't tell us where he is, so we can only guess until he clarifies.



To be honest, this has always confused me for one reason: There's a whole bunch of cleveland locals on the QAMs down here that Time Warner does not and has not had on the offered channel lineups for our area. Like the CW channel in HD from the cleveland area as well as WVIZ and all it's subchannels just for starters. The only cleveland locals we have on the STB lineup are the big 4: WKYC, WJW, WOIO, and WEWS (well, in HD anyhow but I am gonna assume the SDs are the same. I haven't looked through that list in ages. At the very least we don't have any but those 4 in the lower 2-14.)


It makes me REALLY wish we could actually talk to network engineers and get real answers just on curiosity questions like why they have stuff set up like this. I'd like to hope they have a good reason for having THIS curiosity set up the way it is, but with my luck it's just an oversight.


It goes back to an old mentioning I have posted before: With Passport's manual tune feature I was able to pick up WGN on an odd QAM even though it's nowhere on our lineup. I dunno if youu guys have it up there, but we never had for as long as I can remember and I have been around since before TWC took over TCI cable around here.


----------



## hookbill

I tried calling Vonage Customer Service and got a busy signal!!! ROFLOL. They are worst then TW without a doubt.


I was able to call TW with Vonage via a 330 number they had posted on their website. So apparently it is a Vonage issue. But it's Labor Day and no one is answering the phone.


Funny, I didn't think any Americans actually worked in their customer service.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17135705
> 
> 
> Heh heh, It very well could be Vonage but I don't have a forum to kick them around in.


 You mean something like this? ...


----------



## MediaObsessions

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a .pdf called


"Understanding the Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter Diagnostic Screens" 


It's a good read for anyone with a TA. I learned a few things. Enjoy.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/17136988
> 
> 
> If anyone is interested, here is a link to a .pdf called
> 
> 
> "Understanding the Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter Diagnostic Screens"
> 
> 
> It's a good read for anyone with a TA. I learned a few things. Enjoy.



Thanks for the link, it's appreciated.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17136585
> 
> You mean something like this? ...



Right after I posted I remembered the Vonage Forum, I just haven't been there in ages. Nothing really to gripe about.










FWIW, MediaObsessions I can't open that PDF link. I've tried both with my Mac and with Vista. When I launched with Vista all I got was a bunch of pop ups.


Thanks for the thought though. If anyone does open that somehow a copy and paste would be appreciated.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17134493
> 
> 
> Apparently pretty low. For years I've dialed 877.772.2253 from my Vonage home phone for customer service. The other day when the non SDV HD channels went out I wanted to see if there was a message about it on the customer service line. I used my speed dial to dial the above number. I got a message saying "This number cannot be dialed from this phone."
> 
> 
> I thought it was some sort of service error that would correct itself in a 24 hour period. I waited until this morning and tried it again and got the same message.
> 
> 
> I believe that TW is no longer accepting VoIP from any service other then there own, probably in an attempt to have you purchase phone service from them. It actually occurred to me the other day when I called the number but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> No problem calling from my wireless phone.
> 
> 
> Anybody with Vonage or any other VoIP want to test that number and see if they get through?



Wow, that fancy new fangled internet teley-phone service must be real nice!






































I had a "This box is not authorized for service" message last week. I called TWC on my old fashioned







phone. Worked fine. Even my 50 year old rotary dial phone!


----------



## Inundated

hookbill, if I remember right, the Vonage service is actually out of New Jersey somewhere...as far as 800 number ANI goes. It won't let you call that number because it thinks you're not calling from Northeast Ohio!


----------



## MediaObsessions

Sorry everyone, the link worked the other day. I got it from someone off the TiVo Community boards. In any case, I put it on Google Docs. Click this link instead:

TA Diagnostic Manual


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17138065
> 
> 
> hookbill, if I remember right, the Vonage service is actually out of New Jersey somewhere...as far as 800 number ANI goes. It won't let you call that number because it thinks you're not calling from Northeast Ohio!



Nice theory but its always worked previously. Its just this weekend that it stopped working. No big deal its not like I get charged for dialing the local number. Anyway I'm sure it will get fixed.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17138065
> 
> 
> hookbill, if I remember right, the Vonage service is actually out of New Jersey somewhere...as far as 800 number ANI goes. It won't let you call that number because it thinks you're not calling from Northeast Ohio!



That makes sense. It sounds like it's similar to how calling 911 is effed up. Now TWC is blocked.


Or else THEY blocked YOU on purpose. They're probably saying, "Jeeze, that Hookbill dude is calling again!".


----------



## nickdawg

I'm giving a thumbs up to WJW. This morning the "Bonnie Hunt Show" premiered for the first time on WJW. At first the show appeared to be squeezed inside the 4:3 frame but later on it was shown in full screen 16:9. I applaud WJW for showing it in 16:9 even though it is not HD. WEWS only showed it in 4:3, even though a 16:9 "digital widescreen" version does exist. I guess it fits in with that FOX station, since the FOX network does alot of digital widescreen programming.


----------



## mnowlin

Speaking of VoIP issues, AIEEE!!!!


I've spent the last fifteen hours staring at a call routing problem on a Cisco CME at one of our offices... Pretty sure this has resulted in permanent brain damage. What keeps going through my head? "This is stupid-simple to fix on Asterisk..."


(Sorry - had to vent.)


----------



## hookbill

Although I only considerate a moderately entertaining show its one if the wife's favorites. Medium is moving to Friday night this fall. They have also jumped from NBC to CBS.


I can only speculate that NBC which has hit bottom let the show go due to costm. CBS is a winner here because Medium will follow Ghost Whisperer. Can anyone else see the possibilities during ratings sweeps of the shows crossing over? I've joked with my wife about that many times but now I expect it will happen.


Don't forget to reprogram your DVRs.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17138961
> 
> 
> Speaking of VoIP issues, AIEEE!!!!
> 
> 
> I've spent the last fifteen hours staring at a call routing problem on a Cisco CME at one of our offices... Pretty sure this has resulted in permanent brain damage. What keeps going through my head? "This is stupid-simple to fix on Asterisk..."



CallManager Express? Yes, highly verbose logfiles.


----------



## Rbuchina

Sometime today TWC Mentor has finally did something. We now have what most areas recieved back in June,,,CNN, Fam, NGHD, MLBHD. I think I'm gonna cry.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17143525
> 
> 
> Sometime today TWC Mentor has finally did something. We now have what most areas recieved back in June,,,CNN, Fam, NGHD, MLBHD. I think I'm gonna cry.
> 
> 
> Ray



Well well well! Welcome to the wonderful world of SDV. See it was a good move turning in your moto box.


----------



## shooter21198

How many more areas are left for the SDV enabling


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17138247
> 
> 
> Nice theory but its always worked previously. Its just this weekend that it stopped working. No big deal its not like I get charged for dialing the local number. Anyway I'm sure it will get fixed.



Maybe TWC changed the configuration on their toll-free number? I seem to recall I had this same issue with the old Adelphia not long after I got my Vonage service, but it was fixed somehow.


Could just be a glitch, like the problem I'm having with my VZW cell phone right now. I can't get EVDO (higher speed) data service at home. It always dumps to 1x. I'm bathing in a strong VZW signal about a mile from their nearest tower, and have always had EVDO until this happened (second time in the past 2-3 months or so, it happened before for a while and magically cleared up, and now it's back).


VZW CS is telling me stuff like "well, maybe the map shows you have EVDO service there and you don't have a good enough signal it". Well, I did, until this...and it's a full-bar signal! And if I drive just two miles away from my home area in any direction...I get EVDO. Pretty much every corner of Northeast Ohio has EVDO service, even out in the boonies, and even the Youngstown/Warren market was recently converted from 1x.


Yipes. I have a bad feeling this will never get resolved in my favor.


THis has nothing to do with HDTV service, but I had to vent. Thank you for listening.










(Well, on topic, I can call TWC from my cell phone either way.







)


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17148389
> 
> 
> How many more areas are left for the SDV enabling



In Mentor I have not noticed any change in performance. How can I see if we are recieving via SDV or not in Mentor. I know how to get into the diagnostic screen and page 8 of 14 seems to have a lot of SDV info. Someone posted awhile back about what to look for to see if SDV was active or not but I could not find it in my search. Anyone remember what to look for?


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17150962
> 
> 
> In Mentor I have not noticed any change in performance. How can I see if we are recieving via SDV or not in Mentor. I know how to get into the diagnostic screen and page 8 of 14 seems to have a lot of SDV info. Someone posted awhile back about what to look for to see if SDV was active or not but I could not find it in my search. Anyone remember what to look for?
> 
> 
> Ray



Trust me Ray your getting SDV. All that activity you see on the SDV screens is an indicator. I forget what diagnostic you look at while you're tuned to the channel. Nickdawg or Vchat can probably tell you.


----------



## kb8vkg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17134493
> 
> 
> Apparently pretty low. For years I've dialed 877.772.2253 from my Vonage home phone for customer service. The other day when the non SDV HD channels went out I wanted to see if there was a message about it on the customer service line. I used my speed dial to dial the above number. I got a message saying "This number cannot be dialed from this phone."
> 
> 
> I thought it was some sort of service error that would correct itself in a 24 hour period. I waited until this morning and tried it again and got the same message.
> 
> 
> I believe that TW is no longer accepting VoIP from any service other then there own, probably in an attempt to have you purchase phone service from them. It actually occurred to me the other day when I called the number but I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> 
> No problem calling from my wireless phone.
> 
> 
> Anybody with Vonage or any other VoIP want to test that number and see if they get through?



Tried it tonight from my Vonage line and got the same recording. Made one call, listened to the canned "this number cannot be dialed from this phone" play twice. I then stayed on the line and the call was then mysteriously connected to TWC. Very strange. Give it a try


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17151048
> 
> 
> Trust me Ray your getting SDV. All that activity you see on the SDV screens is an indicator. I forget what diagnostic you look at while you're tuned to the channel. Nickdawg or Vchat can probably tell you.



Tune to a channel and go to page 8 of diagnostics. Under "Primary Tuner State:" it will say either NON SDV or SDV.


Also helpful is page 5. "Name & Grid-Banner" usually has "SDV" in the name of the channel. Example, if WOIOHD were a SDV channel it would say:

Code:


Code:


Name & Grid-Banner: WOIOHD SDV WOIOHD


----------



## Vchat20

Actually, the banner name is not really a clear indicator as, at last check, both USAHD and STOHD still had SDV in the name there even though they have long been out of that mess. It's just a behind-the-curtain channel name for their systems and probably not a high priority to be updated.


Though the 'tuner state' lines are a definite. If it says SDV, I can guarantee and will be my life on that it's set for SDV and you are receiving it that way.


Also, why in the mickey mouse h*ll do they have WOIOHD labelled as SDV? Does it actually show up as SDV under the tuner state line?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17151957
> 
> 
> Actually, the banner name is not really a clear indicator as, at last check, both USAHD and STOHD still had SDV in the name there even though they have long been out of that mess. It's just a behind-the-curtain channel name for their systems and probably not a high priority to be updated.
> 
> 
> Though the 'tuner state' lines are a definite. If it says SDV, I can guarantee and will be my life on that it's set for SDV and you are receiving it that way.



I've seen that. USA HD is still called SDV. That's why I thought it was still SDV before I checked the other screen. But if they're adding new channels: F/X, Discovery, ABC Family, etc and they're called SDV, they probably will be.


Page 8 seems to be the most accurate way of telling what's what.



> Quote:
> Also, why in the mickey mouse h*ll do they have WOIOHD labelled as SDV? Does it actually show up as SDV under the tuner state line?



No. It's not really labeled SDV. I was watching Craig Ferguson when I posted that comment and didn't want to change the channel. So I made it up. All the local channels are NON SDV.


Funny thing is last year when they were first making "test" channels up in the 700s/900s, they actually had *WEWHD SDV* and *WJWHD SDV* as test channels. They were deleted later and never seen again.


----------



## k2rj

I noticed an interesting thing last night... I happened to be watching A&E HD between 8 and 9 last night and, all of a sudden, there was a lot of pixellation/breakup of the signal... but then they went to a locally-inserted commercial and the picture was fine. When they switched back to the network feed, the pixellation returned for a minute or two and then went away for the rest of the show. This leads me to believe that the problem was on the network feed or the satellite reception. I wonder how often this type of phenomenon gets mixed into the SDV thing....


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17148389
> 
> 
> How many more areas are left for the SDV enabling



We don't have it in Amherst (Eyria area) yet. As far as I know most of the far west side of Cleveland, the old comcast area, doesn't have it yet either.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kb8vkg* /forum/post/17151773
> 
> 
> Tried it tonight from my Vonage line and got the same recording. Made one call, listened to the canned "this number cannot be dialed from this phone" play twice. I then stayed on the line and the call was then mysteriously connected to TWC. Very strange. Give it a try



OH really!!!!


Trying now.


Wow, that is so strange. So it's NOT a Vonage issue but a problem with this "info highway communications." Just like you I heard it say wrong number twice but on the third time it went to TWC!!!


I'm suspicious again that TW is doing this on purpose trying to make other VoIP look bad. Cathode Kid, what's up with this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/17152573
> 
> 
> I noticed an interesting thing last night... I happened to be watching A&E HD between 8 and 9 last night and, all of a sudden, there was a lot of pixellation/breakup of the signal... but then they went to a locally-inserted commercial and the picture was fine. When they switched back to the network feed, the pixellation returned for a minute or two and then went away for the rest of the show. This leads me to believe that the problem was on the network feed or the satellite reception. I wonder how often this type of phenomenon gets mixed into the SDV thing....



Happens all the time. You can kind of tell though the difference between a network transmission error and a SDV error. I had some pixelation going on the baseball game I was watching. I was just about to curse SDV when the "Dodger" logo appeared for a couple of seconds on the screen. Obviously a transmission problem there.


On the other hand, these things do happen a lot and I think we have a tendency to always blame the cable company when it may not always be their fault.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17152617
> 
> 
> We don't have it in Amherst (Eyria area) yet. As far as I know most of the far west side of Cleveland, the old comcast area, doesn't have it yet either.



That's why I'm suprized we have the new channels in Mentor. We were not even mentioned in last months letter about the box swap. I never recieved anything from the Mentor office about swapping the box. I swapped mine out a couple months ago in anticipation. Perhaps Mentor figured out how to use the existing boxes.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17152945
> 
> 
> That's why I'm suprized we have the new channels in Mentor. We were not even mentioned in last months letter about the box swap. I never recieved anything from the Mentor office about swapping the box. I swapped mine out a couple months ago in anticipation. *Perhaps Mentor figured out how to use the existing boxes.*
> 
> 
> Ray



I strongly doubt that's the case. I think they simply turned it on for people with existing capable boxes. Why they didn't do this in Elyria I have no idea. It could be that they have more boxes already distributed in Mentor and they feel they don't need to make a promotion for that area.


So no new HD in Elyria yet, huh? Well, hang in there it's coming.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17152882
> 
> 
> OH really!!!!
> 
> 
> Trying now.
> 
> 
> Wow, that is so strange. So it's NOT a Vonage issue but a problem with this "info highway communications." Just like you I heard it say wrong number twice but on the third time it went to TWC!!!
> 
> 
> I'm suspicious again that TW is doing this on purpose trying to make other VoIP look bad. Cathode Kid, what's up with this?



It's not deliberate. When you call a toll free number, the PSTN does a database dip to see what local number the TF number points to, then the call is routed to the real (local) number and billed at the TF rate. It sounds like this lookup process is hitting a bad or missing identification string in the database, prompting Vonage to erroneously play the intercept message even though the call is ultimately being routed.


SIP and SS7 signalling can be _really_ messy.


----------



## Vchat20

Anyone notice that STOHD changed from 1080i to 720p? I had to do a doubletake at the front of the 8300HDC and check things a few times but it's passing through a 720p picture now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17164215
> 
> 
> Anyone notice that STOHD changed from 1080i to 720p? I had to do a doubletake at the front of the 8300HDC and check things a few times but it's passing through a 720p picture now.



What I find interesting about this is WKYC broadcast in 1080i. I have seen converted telecast before like on the old Mojo but these guys share the same telecast. Should be interesting.


----------



## nickdawg

That is odd. WKYC is 1080i so it seems like it would make sense to use the same format from the same building.


Everything for me is 1080i so it could be broadcasting in 285x and I wouldn't have noticed it.


----------



## nickdawg

Is anyone else watching SDV and getting the "Try Again" message? Just about every channel that is SDV has the message. 432, 434, 438, 439, 440, 483,...


If anyone is watching the game on these new ESPN channels there must be a lot of pissed off football fans out there.


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. It died on a number of SDV channels here for me as well a short bit ago. Time to call up and ***** again. *sigh*


----------



## nickdawg

Maybe that's why it doesn't work, those channels might be overloaded. I press A and then it just goes to a black screen, that makes me think something else is wrong.


I'm pissed because I haven't seen "Not Available" in almost a month. I thought things were finally fixed. But I guess there's no such thing as "fixed". There's only "slightly less fxcked up"!










Channel 258 FUSE works, but the picture occasionally freezes/breaks up. Why the hell they put that channel on SDV, I know they did it just to piss me off.


----------



## hookbill

I didn't get the message, I just didn't get a picture. I did get the message on channel 450 and channel 740 but when I pressed select on 450 I got the programming. I didn't get anything but the message on 740 and that's MLBnet HD. Nothing showing there anyway. The other MLB channels came on with no problem.


TW is totally worthless. Can you imagine being a college football fan and seeing this crap. I'm sick of their excuses and I'm tired of making excuses for them.


They suck. Bottom line.


----------



## Vchat20

Same thing here hook. No 'Unavailable, press A to try again'. Just nothing whatsoever. Blank screens on half the SDV lineup (that I have actually tried).


----------



## nickdawg

Oh fun!! It's doing the "random freeze every couple of minutes and then go back to normal" thing again.


Remind me again how this "high definition" thing is an improvement? Right about now I'd rather be paying what I currently pay for 125 analog channels instead of this digital/SDV/HD crap. At least the fuzzy analog used to WORK!! Sometimes you just don't realize how good things are until they're gone...


----------



## nickdawg

FUSE is freezing frequently. ESPNU, CNN are giving me Try Again. Also, after pressing A the screen is returning at a faster rate. I think I'm gonna keep punching A until the button comes through the other side of the remote!!


Mark my words, you're gonna be seeing a lot more dishes going up, especially at bars/restaurants. Could you imagine being at a bar or restaurant right now? The customers want to watch the game, and CHANNEL NOT AVAILABLE!! Business owners should really be riding TWC's ASS right now over this!!


And the Situation Room is now in HD, and I don't get to watch it!!


----------



## hookbill

I called TW customer service and the message says technical problems with channels 432 to 454....Sorry, we are aware.....our techs are working on it....blah blah blah.


Didn't something like this happen last weekend too?


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17168266
> 
> 
> I called TW customer service and the message says technical problems with channels 432 to 454....Sorry, we are aware.....our techs are working on it....blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> Didn't something like this happen last weekend too?



Yes it did


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17168266
> 
> 
> I called TW customer service and the message says technical problems with channels 432 to 454....Sorry, we are aware.....our techs are working on it....blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> Didn't something like this happen last weekend too?



Isn't it amazing how when you think we're taking a step forward in technology we are really taking a dozen steps backwards.










Remember your phone problems the other day? For a hundred years you pick up the phone, there's a dial tone and you make a call. Then along comes this internet sh!t and you can't even call TWC!!


Or analog cable. I don't ever remember having problems with analog cable, other then when it would go out because of down lines, technical work, etc. And that was rare. Now it's a miracle if we make it through a week with no problems. You'd think these people just started doing cable the other day.


I can only hope things get better once that retard Fry is out. I read something in the Beacon last week that said he didn't even graduate from college. They just plucked some idiot installer (fry) out of the field and made him manager. No wonder things sucked so much!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17168298
> 
> 
> Isn't it amazing how when you think we're taking a step forward in technology we are really taking a dozen steps backwards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember your phone problems the other day? For a hundred years you pick up the phone, there's a dial tone and you make a call. Then along comes this internet sh!t and you can't even call TWC!!
> 
> 
> Or analog cable. I don't ever remember having problems with analog cable, other then when it would go out because of down lines, technical work, etc. And that was rare. Now it's a miracle if we make it through a week with no problems. You'd think these people just started doing cable the other day.
> 
> 
> I can only hope things get better once that retard Fry is out. I read something in the Beacon last week that said he didn't even graduate from college. They just plucked some idiot installer (fry) out of the field and made him manager. No wonder things sucked so much!



Actually nickdawg I posted about that. Doesn't surprise me, you don't read the entire post frequently.










OK don't get your panties in a bunch. Just stating fact. Anyway I thought it was last week end when we had the problems but TW just continues to show how bad they really are. I'll say this: I've ALWAYS had problems with cable companies and their pictures. Not as bad as this but always. The only company I never had a problem with was Primestar. They were super and things didn't change when D* bought them out, they just got better because of TiVo.


I will say this to anybody who has cable: Do not by a TiVo, get off cable and go satellite. Their clear digital picture just can't be beat.


Anyway TiVo is coming to Direct TV eventually.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17168321
> 
> 
> Actually nickdawg I posted about that. Doesn't surprise me, you don't read the entire post frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK don't get your panties in a bunch. Just stating fact. Anyway I thought it was last week end when we had the problems but TW just continues to show how bad they really are. I'll say this: I've ALWAYS had problems with cable companies and their pictures. Not as bad as this but always. The only company I never had a problem with was Primestar. They were super and things didn't change when D* bought them out, they just got better because of TiVo.
> 
> 
> I will say this to anybody who has cable: Do not by a TiVo, get off cable and go satellite. Their clear digital picture just can't be beat.
> 
> 
> Anyway TiVo is coming to Direct TV eventually.



I haven't been checking in as much, I saw that TWC phone problem as I was passing through.


The last part is obvious. It would be suicide to buy a Tivo for cable. Besides, I wouldn't want TWC's sh!t cable card/tuning adapter violating my Tivo!







And it would suck to have a superior recording device connected to crap service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17168379
> 
> 
> I haven't been checking in as much, I saw that TWC phone problem as I was passing through.
> 
> 
> The last part is obvious. It would be suicide to buy a Tivo for cable. Besides, I wouldn't want TWC's sh!t cable card/tuning adapter violating my Tivo!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it would suck to have a superior recording device connected to crap service.



It sucks having any device connected to their service right now.














I just heard an ad for a "special, sale ends Sunday" on their crappy service for a year for 39.95. People beware do not purchase Time Warner Cable. Their service is horrible.


----------



## hookbill

Does anybody actually buy a PPV from this company? Considering that's all on SDV now (at least I think it is) would you really shell out 90.00 on a fight that you may or may not see?


I mean at least I got to see 99% of the baseball season for my 190.00. But take tonight for example, Dodgers vs Giants on MLBnet HD and I might not be able to see it if they don't fix this crap by then.


Well, actually I'll probably watch it on MLB Extra Innings because Vin Scully is announcing tonight. SD but I'll be able to partially see the game in between macro blocking and pixelation.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17168398
> 
> 
> It sucks having any device connected to their service right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just heard an ad for a "special, sale ends Sunday" on their crappy service for a year for 39.95. People beware do not purchase Time Warner Cable. Their service is horrible.



Also they make you sign a contract. I've gotten ten letters in the last two months telling me how I can "save money" by buying MORE of their services. As if I would EVER get their internet or phone after I see how awful their TV service is!! If you want the "money saving deal" with their internet service, you have to sign a *TWO YEAR CONTRACT* that costs $200 penalty to end early. They're just as bad as satellite. No, worse because at least satellite worked on bright sunny days, unlike TWC today!!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17168412
> 
> 
> Does anybody actually buy a PPV from this company? Considering that's all on SDV now (at least I think it is) would you really shell out 90.00 on a fight that you may or may not see?



That actually happened. I remember Jeremy Moses(Tri Sate Media---linked from OMW) saying that in TWC down there people who bought some event in HD didn't get to see it because the channel didn't work. I believe TWC had to refund everyone who purchased it.



> Quote:
> I mean at least I got to see 99% of the baseball season for my 190.00. But take tonight for example, Dodgers vs Giants on MLBnet HD and I might not be able to see it if they don't fix this crap by then.
> 
> 
> Well, actually I'll probably watch it on MLB Extra Innings because Vin Scully is announcing tonight. SD but I'll be able to partially see the game in between macro blocking and pixelation.



If the Extra Innings Channels are SDV, they probably won't work too. I can't believe they actually make you pay full price for that. Considering how TWC's service has been lately, they should AT LEAST cut the price in half, since the channels don't work half of the time.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17168321
> 
> 
> Actually nickdawg I posted about that. Doesn't surprise me, you don't read the entire post frequently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK don't get your panties in a bunch. Just stating fact. Anyway I thought it was last week end when we had the problems but TW just continues to show how bad they really are. I'll say this: I've ALWAYS had problems with cable companies and their pictures. Not as bad as this but always. The only company I never had a problem with was Primestar. They were super and things didn't change when D* bought them out, they just got better because of TiVo.
> 
> 
> I will say this to anybody who has cable: Do not by a TiVo, get off cable and go satellite. Their clear digital picture just can't be beat.
> 
> 
> Anyway TiVo is coming to Direct TV eventually.



D* already had a genuine TiVO DVR then went with their own. I'm not sure if the D*-TiVO was HD or SD. IT may still be available.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17177050
> 
> 
> D* already had a genuine TiVO DVR then went with their own. I'm not sure if the D*-TiVO was HD or SD. IT may still be available.



Yes, I started out with Direct TiVo. Then Fred Murdock came along and decided to kill the deal with TiVo and do their own DVR. Since then D* was sold and another deal has been made.


From the NY Times:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...tivo-recorder/ 


Notice this is a year ago. I don't know what progress or lack of has taken place.


The old Direct TiVo was actually based on Series 2 TiVo's, had dual tuners but did not have home media capabilities. They were not HD.


I don't think those old DVR's work with Direct TV any longer.


----------



## Gary16

The D* Tivos were in fact HD and had dual tuners. They are still available from some authorized D* suppliers but do not receive the new HD channels from the newer satellite. The new D* Tivo units are slated for some time in 2010.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/17177298
> 
> 
> The D* Tivos were in fact HD and had dual tuners. They are still available from some authorized D* suppliers but do not receive the new HD channels from the newer satellite. The new D* Tivo units are slated for some time in 2010.



Gary, they were NOT HD capable. I had two of them I know they wern't.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17177318
> 
> 
> Gary, they were NOT HD capable. I had two of them I know they wern't.



Here's the description which seems to match what I had at home:

DIRECTV HR10-250 HD DVR TIVO RECEIVER 250GB


From the manufacturer:


Records up to 30 hours of DIRECTV® high-definition programming or up to 200 hours of standard definition programming. With your 250 GB Hard Drive, it allows you to watch whenever youre ready.

Access high definition and standard definition DIRECTV® programming, as well as off-air ATSC digital broadcasts from one receiver in digital form on an internal hard disk drive.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/17177395
> 
> 
> Here's the description which seems to match what I had at home:
> 
> DIRECTV HR10-250 HD DVR TIVO RECEIVER 250GB
> 
> 
> From the manufacturer:
> 
> 
> Records up to 30 hours of DIRECTV® high-definition programming or up to 200 hours of standard definition programming. With your 250 GB Hard Drive, it allows you to watch whenever youre ready.
> 
> Access high definition and standard definition DIRECTV® programming, as well as off-air ATSC digital broadcasts from one receiver in digital form on an internal hard disk drive.




HR 10-250 was actually a product of Hughes Electronics, made for Direct TV and used TiVo software. It did not have the TiVo brand on it, and is only capable of mpeg 2 HD which to the best of my knowledge D* now uses 4 mpeg for its HD transmissions.


The boxes I referred to as D-TiVo's had the TiVo brand right on the box itself and were not HD capable. These HR10-250 boxes had a similar menu to TiVo but did not have the TiVo character in the menus. They since have been discontinued.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17177497
> 
> 
> HR 10-250 was actually a product of Hughes Electronics, made for Direct TV and used TiVo software. It did not have the TiVo brand on it, and is only capable of mpeg 2 HD which to the best of my knowledge D* now uses 4 mpeg for its HD transmissions.
> 
> 
> The boxes I referred to as D-TiVo's had the TiVo brand right on the box itself and were not HD capable. These HR10-250 boxes had a similar menu to TiVo but did not have the TiVo character in the menus. They since have been discontinued.



There is an HR10-250 in a room just a few feet from where I am sitting typing this and I can confirm that it indeed DOES have a color "Tivo" emblem prominently displayed on it in the lower right-hand corner of the receiver. It's no longer in service (I want to get rid of it) so I'm not sure about the "Tivo" character being in the menus.


You are correct that it is mpeg 2 only and can only receive the 4 or 5 HD channels that D* still broadcasts in that format. Those last few are scheduled to be eliminated in the near future. All other D* HD is mpeg 4.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/17177913
> 
> 
> There is an HR10-250 in a room just a few feet from where I am sitting typing this and I can confirm that it indeed DOES have a color "Tivo" emblem prominently displayed on it in the lower right-hand corner of the receiver. It's no longer in service (I want to get rid of it) so I'm not sure about the "Tivo" character being in the menus.
> 
> 
> You are correct that it is mpeg 2 only and can only receive the 4 or 5 HD channels that D* still broadcasts in that format. Those last few are scheduled to be eliminated in the near future. All other D* HD is mpeg 4.



OK, I stand corrected you are right the TiVo logo is on the right hand corner, I missed it I thought it would be on the top. I took at another look at the picture and sure enough it's on the lower right corner.


My D-TiVo's originally had the TiVo character on screen, but when D* began plans to eliminate TiVo as a supplier of their software they removed the TiVo logo from the software screen. This was probably a good two years before the HR10-250 was developed. Technically yes, it was a TiVo but one that was doomed to extinction...but then again all hardware is.


I don't know who you are planning to sell that thing to. 4 or 5 channels? I think I'd either trash it or take of a picture of it and use it for a door stop. Not too much you really can do with it. But you are right, it was definitely a D-TiVo. Just not like the ones I had. I'd forgotten all about them.


----------



## amtrak23

sweet...lots of "channel not available" and blank screens. Awesome work TW *applauds with middle finger*...


----------



## hookbill

I've got it on SDV and I am not having an issue. MLBnet.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/17177913
> 
> 
> There is an HR10-250 in a room just a few feet from where I am sitting typing this and I can confirm that it indeed DOES have a color "Tivo" emblem prominently displayed on it in the lower right-hand corner of the receiver. It's no longer in service (I want to get rid of it) so I'm not sure about the "Tivo" character being in the menus.
> 
> 
> You are correct that it is mpeg 2 only and can only receive the 4 or 5 HD channels that D* still broadcasts in that format. Those last few are scheduled to be eliminated in the near future. All other D* HD is mpeg 4.



Thank you. I knew I wasn't dreaming this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/17190349
> 
> 
> Thank you. I knew I wasn't dreaming this.



Nope, and I apologize I completely forgot about that model. I knew it had TiVo software but I could have sworn by that time the TiVo emblem was no longer on the machine.


I am certain however that it is not in the software itself. Yes it's TiVo software but Murdock had them pull the TiVo logo off there. And I'm also pretty certain there will be another D-TiVo.


----------



## nickdawg

I watch the SD versions of the local affiliates and I've noticed something over the last two days. There is a message that says "Press Select For Enhanced" that appears every time I tune to channels like WEWS, WKYC and WBNX. I recall the Jassole saying something about Start Over in that _blog of things to not come true about NE Ohio HDTV_ earlier this year. Judging by what I've seen about Start Over, it uses that kind of dialogue box.


Right now all it does is tell me there is a HD version of WKYC or WBNX or WEWS, which is pretty stupid since this is a SDTV set and it puts those ugly bars on the top and bottom of the screen. And I imagine it's even worse with a SDTV only box, since those boxes just have a blank screen on HDTV channels. Way to go TWC!! Confuse the customer!


----------



## Vchat20

Well if you are using an HD box on an SD set, expect it to tell you there are HD channels available and suggest switching to them. Not like it can be Nostradamus and know you have an SD set hooked up.


And that enhanced dialog covers just about all extra info on that channel and not just startover. This includes the links to the HD channels, startover, possibly future use of referring to episodes of a show you are watching on VOD (if they choose to do that), the old on-screen poll system from Passport, etc..


And no, SD boxes will not allow you to view HD channels. Only ancient Passport boxes did that as I recall and after a while I think TWC fixed the channel lineup fed to the boxes to block HD channels on SD boxes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17194631
> 
> 
> Well if you are using an HD box on an SD set, expect it to tell you there are HD channels available and suggest switching to them. Not like it can be Nostradamus and know you have an SD set hooked up.



Back when I had that ancient Pioneer box, some of the channels like ESPN had that same message appear on screen. And it actually linked to ESPN HD, which was a black screen. I don't recall ever seeing HD channels on the SD box. I remember checking out those channels back in 2003 or 2004 when they were first added. I remember finding a show I wanted to see in the guide, only to find out it was on Universal HD or HD Net.











> Quote:
> And that enhanced dialog covers just about all extra info on that channel and not just startover. This includes the links to the HD channels, startover, possibly future use of referring to episodes of a show you are watching on VOD (if they choose to do that), the old on-screen poll system from Passport, etc..



I was thinking Start Over since the TV season is beginning and it would be a logical time to make that feature available since it covers broadcast channels. But then again, we're talking about TWC so nothing ever makes sense! I wonder what other features they're gonna add? I've seen something called Quick Clips and the polls you mentioned in that Navigator book that came with my new box.



> Quote:
> And no, SD boxes will not allow you to view HD channels. Only ancient Passport boxes did that as I recall and after a while I think TWC fixed the channel lineup fed to the boxes to block HD channels on SD boxes.



Doesn't it require special hardware inside the box to decode HD? That always seems to be the problem whenever the idea of feeding HD only channels to the settop boxes comes up---the old SD boxes would have to be replaced.


And as far as this whole thing, Mr. Nickdawg would like to give you some advice. Take notes, TWC. This is exactly why the HD boxes should force 4:3 output through the outputs other than Component. If RF, S Video and Composite forced a 4:3 image rather than a boxed in image, it would make it easier to eliminate the extra versions of channels carried. The cable company is using extra bandwidth to do what the settop boxes should be able to do internally. Even the CECB boxes are capable of this. And this "Enhanced" thing would be the perfect way to start training the viewers to find the new channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17190377
> 
> 
> I am certain however that it is not in the software itself. *Yes it's TiVo software but Murdock had them pull the TiVo logo off there.* And I'm also pretty certain there will be another D-TiVo.



I see, so it's Pirate Rupert's fault D* stopped doing the Tivo thing.











Regardless, even if D* started Tivo tomorrow I wouldn't subscribe as long as Murdoch has so much as .0001% of an interest in that company.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17194663
> 
> 
> Doesn't it require special hardware inside the box to decode HD? That always seems to be the problem whenever the idea of feeding HD only channels to the settop boxes comes up---the old SD boxes would have to be replaced.
> 
> 
> And as far as this whole thing, Mr. Nickdawg would like to give you some advice. Take notes, TWC. This is exactly why the HD boxes should force 4:3 output through the outputs other than Component. If RF, S Video and Composite forced a 4:3 image rather than a boxed in image, it would make it easier to eliminate the extra versions of channels carried. The cable company is using extra bandwidth to do what the settop boxes should be able to do internally. Even the CECB boxes are capable of this. And this "Enhanced" thing would be the perfect way to start training the viewers to find the new channels.



Yes it does require specific hardware for HD decoding. And I don't think anyone has really missed the point about all those boxes needing to be replaced. But keep in mind that the boxes TWC is pushing now like the 8300HDC and the Samsungs are HD boxes and they are supplying them to SD customers so this is already starting. However long it takes though is dependent on the old boxes dying out or people swapping them. Or like the case of Elyria's part of the region, do a mass swap-out in an emergency.


One thing you should realise is that you are in a vast minority here. People who would be running an HD box on an SD set aren't gonna care about the picture being letterboxed. Especially with a lot of SD channels feeding letterboxed programming these days and making it an expected norm. Anyone who's gonna be overly anal about this sort of thing is more than likely gonna have and use an HD set with the right STB and connection.


Also keep in mind the locals are the only channels where a 4:3 crop would really be feasible as they have to make things backwards compatible with SD sets due to the CECB's and such. Cable HD networks don't have to since the only viewers those HD channels will be getting are those with HD sets. In which case I'd wager a guess that a large chunk of all known programming on these channels has valuable content outside the 4:3 safe zone so a 4:3 crop would kill things real easily.


----------



## hookbill

Awoke this morning to find both of my tuner adapters have the 8 flashing lights with a pause. According to a tech I spoke with, this means they are bricked (can be recovered however).


Already placed a call to my contact at TW. A little surprised I haven't heard back from her.


Anyone else with a T.A. having problems this morning?


----------



## nickdawg

Anyone else not have audio on WEWHD? It's only on TWC. I checked the TV with the DTV converter box, OTA works fine. It must be a problem with the channel on TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17195825
> 
> 
> Anyone else not have audio on WEWHD? It's only on TWC. I checked the TV with the DTV converter box, OTA works fine. It must be a problem with the channel on TWC.



I assume you meant WEWS HD I have sound, and I had sound when you posted as well.


My tuner adapter problem has been resolved. No explanation as to why it happened. TW must have done something last night.


----------



## shooter21198

I noticed yesterday on Erie suburbs only cleveland local (WUAB) that it had Press Select for Enhanced while the Erie locals did not have that option


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of this Enhanced thing, when I was watching CNN on the SDTV, the Enhanced banner appeared. I pressed Select to see what options come up. "Enhanced TV is currently unavailable".


Why does TWC have this "not available" fetish?










They're telling me the option to tune to CNNHD is not available? What a load...


I'll bet these people need a recipe to make ice!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17198651
> 
> 
> Speaking of this Enhanced thing, when I was watching CNN on the SDTV, the Enhanced banner appeared. I pressed Select to see what options come up. "Enhanced TV is currently unavailable".
> 
> 
> Why does TWC have this "not available" fetish?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're telling me the option to tune to CNNHD is not available? What a load...
> 
> 
> I'll bet these people need a recipe to make ice!



Why the hell did both tuner adapters crap out last night? Nobody knows. WTF.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17198657
> 
> 
> Why the hell did both tuner adapters crap out last night? Nobody knows. WTF.



WHAT!! Are they totally dead or did they just reboot?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17198717
> 
> 
> WHAT!! Are they totally dead or did they just reboot?



Posted previously: When I got up this morning the one in the bedroom was flashing 8 blinks and a pause. That means it's bricked. I phoned you know who immediately.


When I got downstairs the other T.A. was doing the exact same thing. About an hour later I got a call and she sent me a couple of hits. The boxes shut off and we waited a few minutes. I hit the on button and both were restored.


Easy to fix but the point is what caused it? Obviously TW must have done something on their end for both boxes to crap out. But nobody knows anything...of course.


----------



## bassett123

Check out the latest update from twcneo:


Legal Notices for September 11, 2009


Paper: Cleveland Plain Dealer Legal Notices


Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.


*** No changes at this time. ***


From time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned:


On or after August 15, 2009, RFD TV, Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network will be added to the Digital Choice Package and Daystar will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


On or after September 1, 2009, CNBC World will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


On or after September 14, 2009, Hollywood Celebrity Products will be dropped from the Digital Access level of service; The Gem Shopping Network, The Black Shopping Channel and Wize Buys will be added to the Digital Access level of service.


On or after September 15, 2009, Sundance Channel will be added to the Digital Basic level of service.


From time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned on or after October 15, 2009


Sleuth and Hallmark Movies will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


The following channels will be added to standard HD: Cartoon HD, TCM HD, HLN HD, E! HD;


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Biography HD, Disney SX HD, Outdoor HD, Fox Business News HD, Style HD, Hallmark Movies HD


* Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.


----------



## Vchat20

Well about damned time we got new HD channels. Though none of it is really of any interest. Still waiting for MSNBC and The Weather Channel. Cartoon Network would be good if they bothered to air more than 0.2% of their programming in HD. Even shows which are produced/filmed in HD is aired in SD and stretched.


----------



## hookbill

I see a couple of channels that if I had nothing else to look at I might glance at. But I am basically unimpressed..


----------



## nickdawg

Seriously!! We get the f--king Faux OUT OF BUSINESS Network before MSNBC HD!!


I think TWC has a SERIOUS political bias!! That also explains why the volume is 20dB lower on MSNBC analog than the rest of the channels!


----------



## ErieMarty

to be added. after this group


off the top of my head I can only come up with MSNBC, Weather and Spike..


what ever happened to Fox Ohio being 24/7 in HD...I assume they will add Fox Ohio in HD once Cavs season starts..


----------



## Vchat20

Someone else around this forum keeps spouting off the idea that the reason we haven't gotten Spike, Nickelodeon, CMT, or any other Viacom owned channels in HD is because TWC doesn't have carriage agreements for the HD channels. But if that is the case, why do we have Palladia since it is just as much owned by Viacom as all the other channels.


But yeah, not much more to add after this that are actually WORTH adding. As stated, just the likes of MSNBC, Weather Channel, Spike... But we know TWC's gonna drag their feet and add bottom feeder channels before anything useful. If there was ONE channel I'd like to have added right now is MSNBC above all else but that is not likely to happen soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17208886
> 
> 
> Someone else around this forum keeps spouting off the idea that the reason we haven't gotten Spike, Nickelodeon, CMT, or any other Viacom owned channels in HD is because TWC doesn't have carriage agreements for the HD channels. But if that is the case, why do we have Palladia since it is just as much owned by Viacom as all the other channels.
> 
> 
> But yeah, not much more to add after this that are actually WORTH adding. As stated, just the likes of MSNBC, Weather Channel, Spike... But we know TWC's gonna drag their feet and add bottom feeder channels before anything useful. If there was ONE channel I'd like to have added right now is MSNBC above all else but that is not likely to happen soon.



They certainly don't have a problem adding channels that belong to their own company, like CNN, Turners Movie Channel. At least i think TW owns Turners channel..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17208886
> 
> 
> Someone else around this forum keeps spouting off the idea that the reason we haven't gotten Spike, Nickelodeon, CMT, or any other Viacom owned channels in HD is because TWC doesn't have carriage agreements for the HD channels. But if that is the case, why do we have Palladia since it is just as much owned by Viacom as all the other channels.



TWC had Palladia back in the day when it was called MHD. The other Viacom networks HD channels didn't exist yet. It seems the same as when we didn't have USA HD but we had Universal HD.



> Quote:
> But yeah, not much more to add after this that are actually WORTH adding. As stated, just the likes of MSNBC, Weather Channel, Spike... But we know TWC's gonna drag their feet and add bottom feeder channels before anything useful. If there was ONE channel I'd like to have added right now is MSNBC above all else but that is not likely to happen soon.



Headline News HD = totally worthless. I think the only HD that channel has is in primetime. It's like CNN where the "newsroom" coverage is SD. Although CNN Newsroom is supposed to be going HD in October, so Headline News might benefit too. But still, Headline news is way too much trashy celebrity news and Nancy Grace makes my skin crawl!


Faux Business News is useless too. It's jokingly called the "FOX Out Of Business" Network because it gets its ass handed to it in the ratings by CNBC. Besides, why do we need another version of CNBC, we already have that useless channel.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17209735
> 
> 
> TWC had Palladia back in the day when it was called MHD. The other Viacom networks HD channels didn't exist yet. It seems the same as when we didn't have USA HD but we had Universal HD.



But that still doesn't make sense. Though carriage agreements are one of those 'chock full of legalese' things so they probably made some very specific agreements that don't cover the newer HD channels they own. *groan* I'd say screw Viacom but unfortunately they own enough channels where some of them you actually do want and need to pay for the whole bunch to receive. As bad as Disney.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17209735
> 
> 
> Headline News HD = totally worthless. I think the only HD that channel has is in primetime. It's like CNN where the "newsroom" coverage is SD. Although CNN Newsroom is supposed to be going HD in October, so Headline News might benefit too. But still, Headline news is way too much trashy celebrity news and Nancy Grace makes my skin crawl!
> 
> 
> Faux Business News is useless too. It's jokingly called the "FOX Out Of Business" Network because it gets its ass handed to it in the ratings by CNBC. Besides, why do we need another version of CNBC, we already have that useless channel.



To be honest I agree. All they same cookie-cutter copy-n-paste crap. Though once they found out they can actually make coin off 24/7 news and business/finance networks, boy they were right on it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17209880
> 
> 
> But that still doesn't make sense. Though carriage agreements are one of those 'chock full of legalese' things so they probably made some very specific agreements that don't cover the newer HD channels they own. *groan* I'd say screw Viacom but unfortunately they own enough channels where some of them you actually do want and need to pay for the whole bunch to receive. As bad as Disney.



I say screw Viacom. We don't want Nickelodeon or MTV in "HD" now. Neither of those channels show actual HD programming. MTV only has special events like the VMAs in HD. MTV was showing movies awhile back. The movie wasn't HD On the HD Channel! Nickelodeon has a few new live action or cartoons in HD, but be honest---HD isn't gonna make them watchable. I'd take the SD shows from the 90s any day!!


Same thing goes with Cartoon Network. I'm pissed they are adding that one before MSNBC. Cartoon Network has *no* HD programming, it is the analog channel stretched. Which makes it worse than the Viacom networks because at least the Viacom networks respect OAR and do not stretch.


Oh wait, Cartoon Network HD will probably only show the commercials in OAR with "Cartoon Network HD" sidebars like TNT and TBS have!











> Quote:
> To be honest I agree. All they same cookie-cutter copy-n-paste crap. Though once they found out they can actually make coin off 24/7 news and business/finance networks, boy they were right on it.



I just wonder how long the Faux one will last. I remember CNN used to have a financial news channel in digital cable land a long time ago. Eventually they shut it down and replaced it with that world news channel. I could accept CNBC HD being added because it is CNBC and they are very respected in TV financial news. But not Faux. It's been two years and FBN never really caught on. Plus it's Faux, so that automatically makes it questionable!


In honor of "Talk Like A Pirate Day" (arrgh) I'll post this picture of (arrrgh) Mr. Faux himself, Pirate Rupert!!


----------



## subavision212

as always, TW service pushes me to post. so last Friday workmen were out in my neighborhood working on the line though I wasn't sure what they were doing. I did lose cable service and internet for a short time but after about five minutes or so service was restored and I didn't think anything of it. Of course over the next two days my internet service has been going out intermittently, over and over again. sometimes it's only for a short time, others longer,never seems to be more than 5 or 10 minutes but it just keeps happening. just before deciding to post this, it was down for about 3 or 4 minutes. So I was wondering, before calling on Monday to complain, if anyone else was having similar problems and does this have anything to do with SDV. I'm in the Akron area. thanks much.


----------



## hookbill

Go to the website below and tell us what kind of readings you're getting.

http://192.168.100.1/


----------



## Inundated

I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure SDV has nothing to do with the Internet connection...


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17212354
> 
> 
> Go to the website below and tell us what kind of readings you're getting.
> 
> http://192.168.100.1/



Holy (bleep), this even works for me, through my wireless network!


I have no idea what any of it means.



> Quote:
> Downstream Value
> 
> Frequency 117000000 Hz Locked
> 
> Signal to Noise Ratio 38 dB
> 
> Power Level 1 dBmV
> 
> The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading





> Quote:
> Upstream Value
> 
> Channel ID 21
> 
> Frequency 36000000 Hz Ranged
> 
> Power Level 38 dBmV


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17213288
> 
> 
> Holy (bleep), this even works for me, through my wireless network!
> 
> 
> I have no idea what any of it means.



Those are your internal modem diagnostics from the modem's built-in micro web server. The two most important numbers are the signal to noise ratio and the downstream signal level. A s/n of 38db is excellent and a downstream receive level of +1dbmv is sitting right in the middle of the acceptable window of signal level.


A poor s/n would be in the low 30s or less. The lower the number the worse it is. Also, the downstream receive level is usually related to the upstream transmit level. If your Rx is low due to attenuation, it will force the Tx up a little higher to compensate.


----------



## MediaObsessions

I've been having Roadrunner issues in the North Canton area as well. At least 30 minutes each time for the last 3 days that I knew about. Make sure you call them and get a credit applied to account.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17213471
> 
> 
> Those are your internal modem diagnostics from the modem's built-in micro web server. The two most important numbers are the signal to noise ratio and the downstream signal level. A s/n of 38db is excellent and a downstream receive level of +1dbmv is sitting right in the middle of the acceptable window of signal level.



Sounds good to me. I haven't had any RR problems of recent vintage, so it makes sense that the numbers look good.


I just thought the internal IP addresses via my router would mess up my ability to access that page.


----------



## schandorsky

For those that live in the Elyria area, this is the response I receive from Time Warner Cable on when they would start the SDV service and we would receive the HD channels everybody else has in northeast Ohio:



"Thank you for your reply.


I completely understand your question and assumed that this area ( under our Elyria Hub) has been switched. Per our Technical Team, we have not completed the switch over for this area. We anticipate the SDV as early as late fall and appreciate your patience

Sincerely,

Mel

Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"


Late fall puts in the middle to last part of December and that is at the earliest. Meanwhile I an paying the rate as everybody else in Northeast Ohio.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17227054
> 
> 
> For those that live in the Elyria area, this is the response I receive from Time Warner Cable on when they would start the SDV service and we would receive the HD channels everybody else has in northeast Ohio:
> 
> 
> 
> "Thank you for your reply.
> 
> 
> I completely understand your question and assumed that this area ( under our Elyria Hub) has been switched. Per our Technical Team, we have not completed the switch over for this area. We anticipate the SDV as early as late fall and appreciate your patience
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mel
> 
> Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"
> 
> 
> Late fall puts in the middle to last part of December and that is at the earliest. Meanwhile I an paying the rate as everybody else in Northeast Ohio.




I don't know anything, have no reason really to feel this way but I got a hunch it will happen in November. Maybe even October.


Just a guess, nobody has told me anything. I only know what I read in OMW and that late of a date doesn't fit into what I read.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/17214949
> 
> 
> I've been having Roadrunner issues in the North Canton area as well. At least 30 minutes each time for the last 3 days that I knew about. Make sure you call them and get a credit applied to account.



This problem is still going on (had it happen several times since I got home tonight) and of course the guy I talked to Sunday night at TW had no idea what was up, even when my internet connection shut down as he was running diagnostics. Service call thursday. wonder what those TW workmen WERE doing Friday on the pole in my backyard?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17227808
> 
> 
> This problem is still going on (had it happen several times since I got home tonight) and of course the guy I talked to Sunday night at TW had no idea what was up, even when my internet connection shut down as he was running diagnostics. Service call thursday. wonder what those TW workmen WERE doing Friday on the pole in my backyard?



Have you looked at your signal level on your internal diags page yet?


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17228129
> 
> 
> Have you looked at your signal level on your internal diags page yet?



no idea what this is or where (pretty much a techno-wienie). not sure if it would make a difference since the problem was occurring while the TW guy was actually checking a bunch of different things on my signal. is this on my computer somewhere?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17228185
> 
> 
> no idea what this is or where (pretty much a techno-wienie). not sure if it would make a difference since the problem was occurring while the TW guy was actually checking a bunch of different things on my signal. is this on my computer somewhere?



I can't multi quote but read through this page. I gave the FIP address in one of my replies.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17228185
> 
> 
> no idea what this is or where (pretty much a techno-wienie). not sure if it would make a difference since the problem was occurring while the TW guy was actually checking a bunch of different things on my signal. is this on my computer somewhere?


 http://192.168.100.1


----------



## ErieMarty

I know this is suppose to be just about TV viewing in NE Ohio area but I trying to get some feed back on which way I should go..





I been thinking about getting a blue ray player for some time but with the price of Blue Ray DVD's being close to $30.00 I have held off.


But I see the newest PS3 is being sold for $299 and you can play games and play Blue Ray movies...so maybe if I went that way I could justify it more.


My Question is how does PS3 and Blue Ray player compare in picture Quality ..


I have a big screen plasma and want the best picture I can get...didn't know which gives you the better picture


----------



## Rbuchina

There is a forum on AVS dedicated to blue ray/DVD players where you can find all your answers. There is also a forum for the PS3 too. Between these two forums you can find all sorts of info.


I've had a PS3 about two years now and it makes a goood blue ray player. The PS3 does have a fan in it and I had a noisy one that eventually was returned. My replacement unit runs very quiet. There are some nice stand alone units available now too so if the gaming is not of any intrest you can go with a dedicated BR player.


Happy hunting,


Ray


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17229640
> 
> 
> There is a forum on AVS dedicated to blue ray/DVD players where you can find all your answers. There is also a forum for the PS3 too. Between these two forums you can find all sorts of info.
> 
> 
> I've had a PS3 about two years now and it makes a goood blue ray player. The PS3 does have a fan in it and I had a noisy one that eventually was returned. My replacement unit runs very quiet. There are some nice stand alone units available now too so if the gaming is not of any intrest you can go with a dedicated BR player.
> 
> 
> Happy hunting,
> 
> 
> Ray



I have looked at the PS3 group on here but I figure thats more slanted towards PS3 then a blue ray player..thats why I asked the question on here since I know most people on here have a HD TV and there is probably a better mix of Stand alone VS PS3


thanks for you input..


marty


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17229696
> 
> 
> I have looked at the PS3 group on here but I figure thats more slanted towards PS3 then a blue ray player..thats why I asked the question on here since I know most people on here have a HD TV and there is probably a better mix of Stand alone VS PS3
> 
> 
> thanks for you input..
> 
> 
> marty



Well, you can't get any input from me. I neither own a blu ray player or a PS3.


I'm guilty of going off topic all the time so I'm not going to chastise you or flame you, whatever. I have no right to. But I got to agree with Rbuchina you may be better off searching in the correct forums for that information. Since this is now a Time Warner Cleveland thread we are including subjects that don't have anything to do with HD, like internet on TW. Heck we are even talking analog here. I think what you might be trying to do is take the easy route and hope someone has what you're looking for but you would only get one opinion that way. What you want to do is present the question yourself in the proper forum and see what kind of answers you get that way so you can make a truly informed decision.


Good luck to you.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17228743
> 
> http://192.168.100.1



tried but the link won't open. (sorry hookbill, didn't realize you were posting a reply to me.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17229785
> 
> 
> tried but the link won't open.



What kind of modem do you have? There was a time when RR was asking people to switch out their old modems to ones that work with RR.


That link should work. Maybe you have something set up in your firewall preventing it? Try turning off your firewall and try it again.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17229591
> 
> 
> I know this is suppose to be just about TV viewing in NE Ohio area but I trying to get some feed back on which way I should go..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I been thinking about getting a blue ray player for some time but with the price of Blue Ray DVD's being close to $30.00 I have held off.
> 
> 
> But I see the newest PS3 is being sold for $299 and you can play games and play Blue Ray movies...so maybe if I went that way I could justify it more.
> 
> 
> My Question is how does PS3 and Blue Ray player compare in picture Quality ..
> 
> 
> I have a big screen plasma and want the best picture I can get...didn't know which gives you the better picture




ErieMarty,


Check out Amazon.com. They sell Blu-Ray movies for 30% to 70% off. You can also buy used Blu-Ray movies that may have only been watched once for even less. Also, check out their Blu-Ray players. Great selection and discount priceing.


Ben Music


----------



## Inundated

That link works for me, even behind my wireless network. I have a fairly old cable modem...one of the first DOCSIS 2.0 (I think). It's a Motorola Surfboard, if I remember right without having to go downstairs and look at it...


Yep, just looked at the diagnostic screens, and that's what it says.


----------



## edjrwinnt

For what it's worth a lead tech told me that right now it looks like late November for the Time Warner SDV HD channels for North Ridgeville. We are the last to get them because we have the most Comcast equipment.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17227808
> 
> 
> This problem is still going on (had it happen several times since I got home tonight) and of course the guy I talked to Sunday night at TW had no idea what was up, even when my internet connection shut down as he was running diagnostics. Service call thursday. wonder what those TW workmen WERE doing Friday on the pole in my backyard?



Sounds like there's some line maintainence going on with the short outages ( which the people in the call ctrs usually don't know anything about because the outages are short durations)


----------



## hookbill

I don't understand how that tech wasn't able to help subavision212. I wonder if he was contracted. When the techs came out to my house they truly tried to help. They ordered thicker cable to be laid from box to my house, made adjustments. True they didn't fix it the first two times and the guy who really fixed it was out to work on my SA 8300 but when I mentioned still having problems he's the one who found the problem splitter and made the adjustment.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17229591
> 
> 
> .......My Question is how does PS3 and Blue Ray player compare in picture Quality ..
> 
> 
> I have a big screen plasma and want the best picture I can get...didn't know which gives you the better picture



The PS3 is one of the best BD players on the market.

With it's networking interface (also available on other BD players) it is a great addition to any home theatre system. Download videos, home movies, pics, music, etc.. It doesn't do the networking things remarkably well, but it is useful. BD & DVD it does great! I'm not a gamer so I can only guess it does this well.










You might want to look into other BD players as well. Many have the same networking functionality plus some extras like the Netflix download service, etc.. Any name brand BD player should do BD and DVD well.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17229785
> 
> 
> tried but the link won't open. (sorry hookbill, didn't realize you were posting a reply to me.)



192.168.x.x is an internal i.p. address (VLAN), you can't post it on the internet and expect anyone outside your local area network to see it. A screen shot would work, however.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17229824
> 
> 
> What kind of modem do you have? There was a time when RR was asking people to switch out their old modems to ones that work with RR.
> 
> 
> That link should work. Maybe you have something set up in your firewall preventing it? Try turning off your firewall and try it again.



I checked my system profiler and under firewall there is nothing listed. I've never installed one either. It is a Toshiba modem that I think is designed for use with Macs. says Mac:00-90-83--89-43-07. I haven't done one thing to this computer since I started getting RR lite so this is why it's been puzzling to suddenly have this problem AFTER those guys were working on whatever it was they were doing. no problem with cable, though.


Sounds like there's some line maintainence going on with the short outages ( which the people in the call ctrs usually don't know anything about because the outages are short durations)

this is what I think is happening so I guess I will just have to put up with the stops and starts until the tech comes tomorrow. still, kind of a pain, thought the rep I talked to said they would credit me if they find the problem.


----------



## subavision212

this is the info on my mac:

no biggie to try and figure this out, though thanks to everyone who has looked at this. hopefully I'll find out tomorrow.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17233993
> 
> 
> this is the info on my mac:
> 
> no biggie to try and figure this out, though thanks to everyone who has looked at this. hopefully I'll find out tomorrow.



Apparently your modem isn't a Moto - there are some brands that offer their status page at that IP address and others that don't. At any rate they can also read your levels remotely at their offices (as long as the modem is online, of course). A call to customer service can reveal any signal level issues.


At any rate good luck tomorrow.

_We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress..._


----------



## hookbill

Well, it seems my assumption that Mentor was now on SDV was...ummm....wr...wr....wrong.










According to Ohio Media Watch Mentor people are indeed getting more HD channels without SDV. From OMW:
_

OMW does hear that for whatever reason, former Comcasters on the other side of Greater Cleveland may have better luck...we're told that 15 HDTV channels have been added there, with more to come.


We're told the ex-Comcast subscribers in the Mentor area have a lineup fairly close to the rest of the Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio empire, without the addition - yet - of SDV or "Switched Digital Video"...the electronic magic that has fueled HD channel additions in the rest of the region. No, we don't know how._


I can only speculate of course but it seems to me that more bandwith has to be available then what we previously thought. In other words SDV may not even be necessary at this time with the HD channels that are existing, but SDV we got anyway.


So TWC continues to baffle us. Every time we speculate something or reasons of why something is being done they throw us a curve.










Then there is this little peace about bringing God to nickdawgs house:

_We also hear that TWC has quietly added the HD feed of Tri-State Christian Television's WRLM/47 Canton (the former WOAC/67) to its "legacy" systems in the Akron/Canton area - on cable channel 413. It's the same feed which appears over-air on WRLM's 47.2 subchannel.


WRLM HD does not appear in the former Adelphia/Cleveland-based TWC lineup, but for whatever reason, has been added to the former Comcast system in Elyria. WRLM does appear in SD in all the areas covered by FCC "must carry" guidelines..._


Obviously bringing God to nickdawgs house in HD however is a very wise decision and I can only speculate how happy he will be to hear this. If he reads it.










After that I kind of lost interest so if you want to read it all as usual here is the link : http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/ .


----------



## Rbuchina

Hook,


This is as I initially thought. I tune to different channels and look at diagnostics page 8 of 14 and I see no big changes when tuning to any channels.


Ray



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17236446
> 
> 
> Well, it seems my assumption that Mentor was now on SDV was...ummm....wr...wr....wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Ohio Media Watch Mentor people are indeed getting more HD channels without SDV. From OMW:
> _
> 
> OMW does hear that for whatever reason, former Comcasters on the other side of Greater Cleveland may have better luck...we're told that 15 HDTV channels have been added there, with more to come.
> 
> 
> We're told the ex-Comcast subscribers in the Mentor area have a lineup fairly close to the rest of the Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio empire, without the addition - yet - of SDV or "Switched Digital Video"...the electronic magic that has fueled HD channel additions in the rest of the region. No, we don't know how._
> 
> 
> I can only speculate of course but it seems to me that more bandwith has to be available then what we previously thought. In other words SDV may not even be necessary at this time with the HD channels that are existing, but SDV we got anyway.
> 
> 
> So TWC continues to baffle us. Every time we speculate something or reasons of why something is being done they throw us a curve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is this little peace about bringing God to nickdawgs house:
> 
> _We also hear that TWC has quietly added the HD feed of Tri-State Christian Television's WRLM/47 Canton (the former WOAC/67) to its "legacy" systems in the Akron/Canton area - on cable channel 413. It's the same feed which appears over-air on WRLM's 47.2 subchannel.
> 
> 
> WRLM HD does not appear in the former Adelphia/Cleveland-based TWC lineup, but for whatever reason, has been added to the former Comcast system in Elyria. WRLM does appear in SD in all the areas covered by FCC "must carry" guidelines..._
> 
> 
> Obviously bringing God to nickdawgs house in HD however is a very wise decision and I can only speculate how happy he will be to hear this. If he reads it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After that I kind of lost interest so if you want to read it all as usual here is the link : http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/ .


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17236446
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> _we also hear that twc has quietly added the hd feed of tri-state christian television's wrlm/47 canton ......
> _


_


*Amen!*_


----------



## subavision212

well just to put an ending on my RR saga, I have to admit that sometimes TW can be okay because they do hire some people that are very good. turns out that my modem was over 6 years old and my tech was surprised to see it and swapped it out for a brand new motorola. of course, no one from TW mentioned that I might want to get the new modem, no calls, emails or anything from the company. I also had several bad connectors which my tech replaced telling me that these introduce noise into the signal (must be true since I no longer have a film of grain on the SciFi channel, actually looks nice) and told me not to plug the power cord for my modem into a power strip because this, too, can cause noise in the signal. He then proceeded to check my numbers and said everything looked great. He also said that every now and then I should just unplug my digital box for a few seconds and then plug it back in just to help "clean" things up and keep everything working fine. I give him credit, he was very nice and knowledgeable and things are working top notch.


----------



## Vchat20

The only thing about the tech that I do not completely agree with is the 'not plugging the modem into a powerstrip' bit. While it is certainly possible for it to introduce noise in some way I guess, any new noise would be miniscule at best and not harmful to your connection unless you're already marginal. I have my SA Voice/HSI modem hooked up to a powerstrip in addition to the electrical in this house being absolute **** to begin with and my signal has always been great and never a problem.


Everything else though sounds good. The combination of stuff did (new modem, replaced coax connections, etc.) should have helped a good deal.


----------



## hookbill

TW did contact me via letter saying they needed to change my modem for Road Runner, but I had to email them to get them to actually come out. I agree with Vchat I have my modem plugged into a UPS they never said squat to me about it.


I'm pretty certain you must have missed my post. I think I said that when Road Runner came around they switched my modem.


Anyway glad they got you up and running good.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17241061
> 
> 
> well just to put an ending on my RR saga, I have to admit that sometimes TW can be okay because they do hire some people that are very good. turns out that my modem was over 6 years old and my tech was surprised to see it and swapped it out for a brand new motorola. of course, no one from TW mentioned that I might want to get the new modem, no calls, emails or anything from the company. I also had several bad connectors which my tech replaced telling me that these introduce noise into the signal (must be true since I no longer have a film of grain on the SciFi channel, actually looks nice) and told me not to plug the power cord for my modem into a power strip because this, too, can cause noise in the signal. He then proceeded to check my numbers and said everything looked great. He also said that every now and then I should just unplug my digital box for a few seconds and then plug it back in just to help "clean" things up and keep everything working fine. I give him credit, he was very nice and knowledgeable and things are working top notch.



This also means your internal status page should be working now. Try that IP address again in your browser.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17241842
> 
> 
> This also means your internal status page should be working now. Try that IP address again in your browser.



yes, it does work so now I just need to take a few months and figure out what it all means. and yes, I probably missed your post, hookbill, so I will try and be more attentive. but it is nice to have things working again. it is strange that you will get different advice from different techs at different times which only confuses the issue. I guess they can say whatever they want as long as I'm connected and having no issues. (and besides, that's what this forum is for, getting the REAL truth.)


----------



## nickdawg

Did anyone try to watch that _alleged Cleveland market CBS affiliate_ tonight? Hey jerkoffs!! Just because this area allegedly has a high number of cable subscribers doesn't mean you can get away with a piss poor signal. How do you think that cable company gets your signal?


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!










That's why tonight as I was watching The Mentalist on WOIO-SD TWC the picture froze and broke up too many times to count. And WUAB isn't much better either. Watching channel 6 the other day the picture froze a couple times and the screen even turned yellow. Never seen that one before. Can they do anything right??


----------



## lewis1982

check the link they list the already known october 15th additions as well as november 4ths
http://www.timewarnercable.com/north...ngnotices.html


----------



## hookbill

I don't understand what they mean but "basic digital tier." Don't you need that just to get HD in the first place? It sounds like they are saying it's only for certain people but there is no "free HD" without a digital basic.

*The following channels will be added to standard HD: Cartoon HD, TCM HD, HLN HD, E! HD;

The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Biography HD, Disney SX HD, Outdoor HD, Fox Business News HD, Style HD, Hallmark Movies HD*


And I don't know why but the thought of them moving stuff around kind of scares me, even if affects only one of the channels I receive:

*The following channels will be relocated to new channel positions: On standard HD, Palladia HD from 469 to 470. On the HD Tier: Universal HD from 470 to 496; Smithsonian HD from 471 to 497; Mav TV HD from 472 to 498 and MGM HD from 473 to 499.*


Then there is these wonderful channels:

*The Weather Channel HD will be added to standard HD.

The following channels will be added to HD with carriage level varying by area: WE HD and TV One HD.









The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Planet Green HD, IFC HD and Fuse HD.

The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Sports Tier: NHL Network HD, Tennis Channel HD and CBS College Sports HD.*


When did they make up the Sports Tier? I knew it was coming but I didn't know it was here.


----------



## shooter21198

That sports tier lacks an important channel but that is different story and its nice to see TWC trying to promise 100 HD channels by years end


----------



## Inundated

I'm glad they finally are adding the Weather Channel HD. The rest of that November 4th list? Meh.


What's missing now? MSNBC HD? We're starting to run out of "high profile" HD channels to add...


----------



## Inundated

Oh, there IS NFL Network HD, but I'll be 100 by the time that Time Warner carries it in any definition.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17245795
> 
> 
> Oh, there IS NFL Network HD, but I'll be 100 by the time that Time Warner carries it in any definition.



Yep, they are sticking to their guns on wanting that on the Sports Tier anyway. Remember we had it for a short time with the old Adelphia and TW kept it for a bit but then dumped it.


It was in HD too but they didn't show any games in HD!!!


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17245783
> 
> 
> I'm glad they finally are adding the Weather Channel HD. The rest of that November 4th list? Meh.
> 
> 
> What's missing now? MSNBC HD? We're starting to run out of "high profile" HD channels to add...



About DAMN time. Now just to wait for the HD 'Stars to come to fruition for the 'local on the 8s' to come in HD.


And I wholeheartedly agree. Come on guys, every cable system has MSNBCHD even in other TWC regions but us. Just one extra channel that I am absolutely certain you guys have carriage rights to.


After the weather channel, all you guys have to do is offer up MSNBC in HD and I will be a happy man. Just make the network work without glitches and system outages every other week and you won't hear a single peep from me.


At this rate though with household finances being really tight, I am seriously looking at the option of going to Dish. ~$160/mo for just basic digital service and one DVR, standard phone package, and the lite RR service seems to be real high especially when the serviceis half-assed (I'll admit the RR and Phone service is top notch. It's the digital cable which is horrid.)


----------



## nickdawg

Seriously? Please tell me that is a joke. Please. They're adding the fncking Weather Channel? And WE(whatever that is)? And no MSNBC? This has gotta be a joke.


How much more HD can WE







or the Weather Channel







have than MSNBC? I'd bet MSNBC has more HD than CNN. All of MSNBC's 5-9pm pundit shows are HD. Daytime news coverage utilizes the entire HD screen. MSNBC HD has graphics in the style of ESPN News where there is extra info in a "side panel", which beats the hell out of CNN's red HD sidebars on all coverage out of Atlanta. Which is the entire day from American Morning until the Situation Room.


----------



## nickdawg

What TWC needs to add in the HD department is HD equivalents of USA programming on VOD. I'm trying to get caught up on the last four episodes of Monk. It really sucks balls that the shows are in that windowbox format.










I wouldn't have a problem with the fact that it's SD if at least they were shown in normal 4:3. But the windowbox thing pisses me off most. The NBC programming sucks too. At leas when you watch the regular NBC channel you get the normal 4:3 picture. But the VOD channel is windowbox.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17233980
> 
> 
> I checked my system profiler and under firewall there is nothing listed. I've never installed one either. It is a Toshiba modem that I think is designed for use with Macs. says Mac:00-90-83--89-43-07. ...



A MAC address (Media Access Control) is on every network device. It does not mean your modem was designed for a Macintosh brand computer. "Macs" have a MAC address and so do PC's. A MAC address is a unique identifier for network communication devices. Think of it as a serial number.


BTW: If this MAC address is for a wireless device you might not want to publish that number on the web, protect it like you do your SSN.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17249582
> 
> 
> BTW: If this MAC address is for a wireless device you might not want to publish that number on the web, protect it like you do your SSN.



Well, I wouldn't go that far... Other than letting someone figure out what brand of network device you have, there's not a whole lot someone can get from a MAC address... True, it would make it a little easier to zero in on a particular wireless network, but a person would need to be in range of the network in the first place - not an easy thing to do unless a street address is obtained, and you still have to deal with whatever security is set up on the wireless device.


The biggest "gotcha" here is that some devices use the MAC address as a default password. If you advertise your MAC, if you tell people where it is, if you have weak wireless security, and if you don't change the default password, well, you have other things to worry about.


It's probably not a great idea to send your MAC address to every email list you belong to, but knowing it isn't likely to let someone take out a credit card in your name...


----------



## shooter21198

I decided to group the HD Channels and see how much we get once November comes

Premium Movie HD channels: 4

Free HD Channels: 51 or 52 Can't remember if CBS College Sports is in the digital basic package

Sports Tier HD Channels: 2 or 3 see above

HD Tier: 4

Which is a grand total of 62 HD Channels



*Note this list does not include On Demand and local channels


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17255234
> 
> 
> I decided to group the HD Channels and see how much we get once November comes
> 
> Premium Movie HD channels: 4
> 
> Free HD Channels: 51 or 52 Can't remember if CBS College Sports is in the digital basic package
> 
> Sports Tier HD Channels: 2 or 3 see above
> 
> HD Tier: 4
> 
> Which is a grand total of 62 HD Channels
> 
> 
> 
> *Note this list does not include On Demand and local channels



MLB Extra Innings available 6 months a year could be added to. Channel 740.


----------



## shooter21198

I forgot to add HD Sports to that list but it has such limited programming I probably will keep it off of the list


----------



## abcmatt

Is Lifetime HD out there on other systems or is there no such channel because I only see Lifetime Movie Network HD on TWC?


Every time I switch to FSN HD there is just a black screen. Do they only show Cavs programming in HD but no college football games? (On the TWC website they list it as Cavs HD.)


----------



## hookbill

FSN HD = Waste of space. Cavs games only as far as I know.


I don't know about Lifetime, I never look at it and never had an interest to see if it is available in HD.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17261568
> 
> 
> FSN HD = Waste of space. Cavs games only as far as I know.
> 
> 
> I don't know about Lifetime, I never look at it and never had an interest to see if it is available in HD.



It's more than just the Cavs in HD on FSN, it's also college sports.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17261568
> 
> 
> FSN HD = Waste of space. Cavs games only as far as I know.



No it's not. I wish we had FSN HD last week when the Zips were on channel 309. The PQ is ass on that channel, I've seen You Tube videos that look better.


Even if FSN Ohio "HD" showed it in 4:3 SD, at least it would be true digital, scaled to 720p, not analog like the basic cable channel of FSN. I could give a rat's ass about HD. I just want a clear picture.


----------



## Vchat20

I just had my first opportunity to witness the Startover functionality and it really came out of nowhere on an obscure program. 'Home Movies' during the Adult Swim lineup on Cartoon Network here at 1:30AM. 'Enhanced TV' box came up with Startover, DVR Show List, and Guide in the options.


Must say though that while the startover system may still be limited, it is pretty ingenious especially if you happen to surf over to something after it has already started. Would be nice though if it allowed recording off of.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17264415
> 
> 
> I just had my first opportunity to witness the Startover functionality and it really came out of nowhere on an obscure program. 'Home Movies' during the Adult Swim lineup on Cartoon Network here at 1:30AM. 'Enhanced TV' box came up with Startover, DVR Show List, and Guide in the options.
> 
> 
> Must say though that while the startover system may still be limited, it is pretty ingenious especially if you happen to surf over to something after it has already started. Would be nice though if it allowed recording off of.



DAMMIT, you beat me to it. When I put Roseanne on TV Land, the "Press Select To Start Over" message appeared. It didn't work on that channel yet. Since then I've been flipping through channels where I found Cartoon Network. I pressed Select and King of the Hill started at the beginning.


While in the Start Over mode, the banner looks like a VOD banner. You can pause and rewind, but no fast forward.


Did you try recording? I have the History channel recording on the other tuner and I don't want to screw up my recording by playing with this now.


----------



## Vchat20

Nah. No recording. Tried. Obviously it works on live tv starting from where I came in, but the startover feed I can't.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17264479
> 
> 
> Nah. No recording. Tried. Obviously it works on live tv starting from where I came in, but the startover feed I can't.



I guess it's better than nothing at all. I'm surprised this is actually working!







They're probably using these channels as their live test before putting it on other channels, I imagine USA, F/X, TNT and maybe the broadcast networks will eventually have this too, not just oddball cable networks.


Remember they were running that Press Select For Enhanced on the local channels a few weeks back. Plus I noticed that all the analog channels that have HD equivalents now have the Enhanced TV that leads to the HD version.


The only channels with Start Over:


106 TOON

107 NICKJR

114 TVLND


----------



## Vchat20

I agree. It's really better than nothing and hope to see it reach more channels.


I'd really love to see it hit some of the HD channels, but I am not holding my breath. Mostly from a technical standpoint though (a few hundred megabytes for a 30 minute SD program compared to around 3-4GB for the same program in 1080i and then multiply that by whatever channels they decide to run S-O on and you can start to see an increased workload. And this has to go up on the same VOD server as the dozens of VOD channels we already have.)


----------



## hookbill

Not sure how good that start over feature is since I only have one SA 8300 but it's definitely a feature that won't be available on TiVo.


Since I'm not a surfer and time shift everything that wouldn't be something I would be interested in anyway. Still I will say this. This feature and TW's On Demand are pretty darn good features. I haven't tried On Demand for sometime so I don't know if it's still as slow and clunky as it was previously.


Does anyone know if either of the satellites provide On Demand? If not it's the only reason I could think of why someone wouldn't switch. That and no line of sight.


----------



## Michael P 2341

How many tuners do your cable DVR's have? I have the equivalent of "start over" on my E* 622, but is limited to the channel that the other tuner is tuned to at the time. What it really is is a 1 hour buffer. As long as the 2nd tuner is not disturbed (as in having a scheduled program) I can rewind the buffer and watch what I missed on that channel. I can even record what was in the buffer by rewinding to the point where I want the recording to begin and hit the record button.


This "start over" sounds similar to my one hour buffer.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17268433
> 
> 
> How many tuners do your cable DVR's have? I have the equivalent of "start over" on my E* 622, but is limited to the channel that the other tuner is tuned to at the time. What it really is is a 1 hour buffer. As long as the 2nd tuner is not disturbed (as in having a scheduled program) I can rewind the buffer and watch what I missed on that channel. I can even record what was in the buffer by rewinding to the point where I want the recording to begin and hit the record button.
> 
> 
> This "start over" sounds similar to my one hour buffer.



DVRs have two tuners, SA non DVR boxes have one.


Start Over works on both DVR and non DVR boxes. This morning I tried out Start Over on my SA box. I was able to start Scooby from the beginning without having the TV on that channel at all. And the non DVR box behaved like a DVR, minus the fast forward option(you can pause and rewind).


Start Over works only on certain channels that TWC chooses. The program is recorded on (what I assume would be a network DVR) and your box is able to access that and view the program from the beginning. I haven't seen any longer than one hour shows on a Start Over enabled channel yet so I don't know how that is handled.


----------



## hookbill

Wow, I'm surprised it works on non DVR tuners.


So if I understand you right this isn't available on all channels. Have you actually seen it go back beyond an hour?


----------



## Inundated

It doesn't work on my old SA3200 box. Is anyone in the non-legacy (ex-Adelphia, etc.) areas getting this?


----------



## shooter21198

StartOver isn't working for me and I'm in an ex-adelphia in northwestern PA


----------



## nickdawg

It's probably only on Navigator systems. The banner is part of the "Press Select For Enhanced" display, which isn't on SARA.


----------



## hdtvfan2005

SARA is compatible with Start Over.


----------



## Vchat20

Startover is basically VOD based and has nothing to do with the DVR system. When yo select Startover, it goes into the process of tuning the program on the VOD server (the initial 'please wait' screen seems to be much quicker though on S-O than normal VOD programming) and then plays back as if it was a VOD program, rewind,pause,FF delays and all. Only difference is FF is disabled (obviously to keep commercials intact and watched).


As nickdawg already stated, it's only on those 3 existing channels as far as I have seen and seems to be during select programs and not 24/7. All Navigator boxes should support it as should SARA.


It might also depend on your headend too. Since this is VOD based, the VOD servers are split between areas.


----------



## Inundated

SARA is very much compatible with StartOver. My friend who lives in Upstate New York has had it for months, and he's on a SA8300 with SARA. I've seen it work.


I don't know if it just doesn't like the old SA3200 I have upstairs, or if it's not working out of the Bath headend yet. I haven't tried my SA8000 yet. I know it doesn't depend on DVR functionality.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17269111
> 
> 
> As nickdawg already stated, it's only on those 3 existing channels as far as I have seen and seems to be during select programs and not 24/7. All Navigator boxes should support it as should SARA.



That might be it...it just may not be active on those certain programs. I'll try again in prime time - if it's schedule/time based, that might be the best place to try.


When I saw my friend first use it up in NY State, he was using it on local news programs.


----------



## schandorsky

I just had a Time Warner tech out to my house, because we had some channels come and go, probably because of the changeover.


I asked him when the SDV changeover would take place in the Elyria area (Elyria, North Ridgeville and Amherst. He told me that they just finished Bay Village and just started Avonlake. He said the Elyria area would be next and last, hopefully in a few weeks. He also stated we would have 100 HD channels in Northeast Ohio by the end of the year.


By the way nobody I talk to in my area received any letters about turning in their Moto boxes for the SA's like was published on the Ohio Media Watch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17272671
> 
> 
> I just had a Time Warner tech out to my house, because we had some channels come and go, probably because of the changeover.
> 
> 
> I asked him when the SDV changeover would take place in the Elyria area (Elyria, North Ridgeville and Amherst. He told me that they just finished Bay Village and just started Avonlake. He said the Elyria area would be next and last, hopefully in a few weeks. He also stated we would have 100 HD channels in Northeast Ohio by the end of the year.
> 
> 
> By the way nobody I talk to in my area received any letters about turning in their Moto boxes for the SA's like was published on the Ohio Media Watch.



It may be that TW figured out how to do the Moto boxes. According to my contact at TW there is suppose to be a way to make them work with SDV.


I wouldn't put too much stock into what the tech told you about 100 HD channels by end of year. I think it will happen eventually but my past experience with techs and their information on these things is they arn't very accurate.


I had one tech told me SDV wouldn't be in my neighborhood until July. That was in May and IIRC we had it by the end of May.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17272811
> 
> 
> It may be that TW figured out how to do the Moto boxes. According to my contact at TW there is suppose to be a way to make them work with SDV.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't put too much stock into what the tech told you about 100 HD channels by end of year. I think it will happen eventually but my past experience with techs and their information on these things is they arn't very accurate.
> 
> 
> I had one tech told me SDV wouldn't be in my neighborhood until July. That was in May and IIRC we had it by the end of May.



The way the tech told me that with our system that all the moto boxes had to be switched out.

The way he explained the changeover in Avon Lake is that: " we began turning off boxes". Do you know what that means?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17272875
> 
> 
> The way the tech told me that with our system that all the moto boxes had to be switched out.
> 
> The way he explained the changeover in Avon Lake is that: " we began turning off boxes". Do you know what that means?



Well, yes and that's what they said they were going to do. They said the letters would go out and if they didn't turn in their moto boxes they were going to turn them off. That kind of forces them to turn in their boxes.


Why am I not surprised that they would do this and not send out letters? Maybe your area is still waiting, I know they said they were going to do it in phases.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17272671
> 
> 
> I just had a Time Warner tech out to my house, because we had some channels come and go, probably because of the changeover.
> 
> 
> I asked him when the SDV changeover would take place in the Elyria area (Elyria, North Ridgeville and Amherst. He told me that they just finished Bay Village and just started Avonlake. He said the Elyria area would be next and last, hopefully in a few weeks. He also stated we would have 100 HD channels in Northeast Ohio by the end of the year.
> 
> 
> By the way nobody I talk to in my area received any letters about turning in their Moto boxes for the SA's like was published on the Ohio Media Watch.



As Hook mentioned, the article in the Chronicle Telegram did mentioned that the rollout would be staggered, so it's possible the number of existing Moto's in the Amherst/ Amherst Twp zone are less than the AL/Bay or ELyria/NR zones.

FWIW, I haven't seen anyone with a GI or Moto box around me anyway.

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2...grade-offered/


----------



## Vchat20

Anyone aware of any new Nav updates in this area?


At my aunt's house who has an old 8000HD MDN box and just rebooted and going through the update process. Not certain offhand what the existing MDN version number was though.


----------



## Vchat20

Finally finished the update here. Dunno which version entry actually has the MDN version in it, but here goes:


PTV: v6.12.96.1sp, Wed Oct 8, 2008, 10:46:57 PM PDT

Dflt: vnot found, not found

Res: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11, 2009, 15:33:28

DAM: 2.4.6-19-ptv (Mt. Sherman) May 11, 2009, 15:32:52

PE: 3.13 (MDN 2.5dev) Mar 4, 2009,12:24:19

Host: 1.38 MDN 2.4 May 11, 2009,15:3412

HTRA: Not Available


----------



## nickdawg

What happened to Start Over? I noticed TVLND and TOON no longer have the Press Select to Start Over banner. Is TWC pissed we found their secret?


An update for MDN? I have clue as I (thankfully) no longer have a MDN box. I don't even see the point in updating that soon to be extinct software. Plus it has to be the worst software I've ever seen.


----------



## Tim Lones

According to Ohio Media Watch, "Start Over" starts officially next week:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/1...arts-over.html 


All "eligible" customers are scheduled to have the "Start Over" Service by October 16..


They were probably testing before..


----------



## hookbill

Can't help but notice that none of the HD channels are in the initial "Start Over" line up. I have no idea how this works but my initial thought is bandwith is so much higher on a HD channel, and I don't see how this would work with SDV.


Also noticeable is not one single local channel is in this available line up. I could be wrong on this but I still think the majority of television is still watched over network channels.


Also notice no premium channels either. Now all of this could mean absolutely nothing since we no On Demand does deliver programming in HD.


For the initial launch, Start Over is enabled on 19 networks:

A&E

Biography Channel

Comedy Central

Disney Channel

Food Network

FX

HGTV

History Channel

History International

MTV

National Geographic

Nick

Nicktoons

Nick Jr.

Spike

TBS

TNT

TV Land

VH1

*New channels will be added frequently.*


----------



## Vchat20

Actually it is probably more of a storage space issue than anything. They have to have enough space separated on the VOD servers for all the Startover enabled channels long enough for whatever current program is on. And HD programming constitutes about a 6-8x storage increase over SD with the bandwidth TWC pushes on their channels. As I posted in a past post of mine, you're talking like ~500MB for a 30 minute 480i program and around ~3-4GB for 1080i for 30 minutes (I recorded a copy of 'Catch it Keep it' on the Science Channel in HD and it came out to about 6.3GB for the hour long show)


I don't know exactly how much storage space they provide on the VOD servers, but adding HD is a substantial increase in either case.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17282121
> 
> 
> Actually it is probably more of a storage space issue than anything. They have to have enough space separated on the VOD servers for all the Startover enabled channels long enough for whatever current program is on. And HD programming constitutes about a 6-8x storage increase over SD with the bandwidth TWC pushes on their channels. As I posted in a past post of mine, you're talking like ~500MB for a 30 minute 480i program and around ~3-4GB for 1080i for 30 minutes (I recorded a copy of 'Catch it Keep it' on the Science Channel in HD and it came out to about 6.3GB for the hour long show)
> 
> 
> I don't know exactly how much storage space they provide on the VOD servers, but adding HD is a substantial increase in either case.



Yes 6.3 gb is about a good middle number for how much space on a hard drive it takes. Usually it's between 5.9 and 7.2, never understood why or how.


----------



## Vchat20

Just depends on what kind of bitrate they decide to push for each channel. Add in the fact that the very nature of Digital Cable and QAM usage they have to use statmuxing and VBR (Variable bitrate) which bases usage on various factors like motion in the video and whatnot. It's not like classic analog where it's just one solid rate for everything. Digital is flexible.


Here's a good example: Most HD SDV channels they seem to be locked in at 15mbit solid. USAHD a while back was at a crappy 8-9mbit. 480i is anywhere from 2-5mbit. It just varies depending on many factors and the bitrate determines the actual amount of space to store the program of x amount of length.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/17281823
> 
> 
> According to Ohio Media Watch, "Start Over" starts officially next week:
> 
> http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/1...arts-over.html
> 
> 
> All "eligible" customers are scheduled to have the "Start Over" Service by October 16..
> 
> 
> They were probably testing before..



That's good news. At least TWC is keeping their promises. And finally releasing something that works(or at least it did when I had it the other night).


----------



## subavision212

A question for the experts. I'm thinking of buying a Roku digital video player. I have Road Runner (29.99 version) and was wondering if anyone has used this or can tell me if the RR speed is enough to stream movies effectively. They say 1.5 mpbs is okay but recommend 3. Thought I read that RR lite is only 768 kbps. thanks for the info.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17284878
> 
> 
> A question for the experts. I'm thinking of buying a Roku digital video player. I have Road Runner (29.99 version) and was wondering if anyone has used this or can tell me if the RR speed is enough to stream movies effectively. They say 1.5 mpbs is okay but recommend 3. Thought I read that RR lite is only 768 kbps. thanks for the info.



I have a TiVo and I am capable of streaming from either Amazon or Netflix; but I've never used it. However due to the very nature of the beast I would think that you would want to get the fastest speeds possible for streaming movies.


I'm no expert but I say faster is better. First you may want to test your actual speed. Here is a link I use:

http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp 


I saw that Cnet has one that is carrier specific but it only gives up speads:

http://reviews.cnet.com/internet-speed-test/ 


What are you paying for this digital player? Just curious. To be honest I didn't even know they were out there.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17284934
> 
> 
> I have a TiVo and I am capable of streaming from either Amazon or Netflix; but I've never used it. However due to the very nature of the beast I would think that you would want to get the fastest speeds possible for streaming movies.
> 
> 
> I'm no expert but I say faster is better. First you may want to test your actual speed. Here is a link I use:
> 
> http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp
> 
> 
> I saw that Cnet has one that is carrier specific but it only gives up speads:
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/internet-speed-test/
> 
> 
> What are you paying for this digital player? Just curious. To be honest I didn't even know they were out there.



thanks for the links. I will test mine tonight after work. the unit is 99.00 and uses netflix, amazon and they just added MLB with new add-ons planned. I think you can also view HD now but not sure. seemed like a good deal since I'm not a gamer and already have my ideal blu-ray player.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17285170
> 
> 
> thanks for the links. I will test mine tonight after work. the unit is 99.00 and uses netflix, amazon and they just added MLB with new add-ons planned. I think you can also view HD now but not sure. seemed like a good deal since I'm not a gamer and already have my ideal blu-ray player.



I know that HD movies are available from both Amazon and Netflix. Here's Cnets review:

_The good:

Affordable $100 price tag; streams Netflix Watch Now and Amazon Video On Demand movies and TV shows to your TV; the combination of Netflix's unlimited subscription viewing (as low as $9 per month) and Amazon's pay-per-view offerings delivers a good range of viewing flexibility and choice; PC-free movie watching; simple setup; includes built-in wired and 802.11g Wi-Fi networking; works with all TVs; upgradeable firmware allows for new features, interface improvements, and bug fixes.


The bad:

Though improving, the Netflix streaming library is still just a fraction of its DVD-by-mail offerings, especially when it comes to popular recent releases; the video quality of most non-HD titles doesn't come close to DVD, especially when viewed on large TVs; some titles don't appear in their original wide-screen version; no surround sound; can't manipulate Netflix queue or search Amazon library via TV screen; yet another box under the TV.


The bottom line:

The one-two punch of Amazon and Netflix makes the Roku Player an enticing choice for anyone looking for a simple, convenient, and affordable alternative to cable or satellite TV._
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-medi...-33018087.html 


I would assume from that review that HD is possible. I would also assume from that review that you would only want to select movies in HD for quality purposes.


I think I have read that Netflix or Amazon or both does not provide Dolby 5.1 on it's streaming. I could be wrong about that.


----------



## toby10

There was talk of a Roku Video box version 2 coming out but I don't know any details. Possibly for X-mas season? Dunno.

I find it very strange that they still have not incorporated Internet Radio into their box as this was the initial reason Roku even existed (making Internet Radio streaming devices, which they have stopped producing in favor of the video box).


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17284934
> 
> 
> I have a TiVo and I am capable of streaming from either Amazon or Netflix; but I've never used it. However due to the very nature of the beast I would think that you would want to get the fastest speeds possible for streaming movies.
> 
> 
> I'm no expert but I say faster is better. First you may want to test your actual speed. Here is a link I use:
> 
> http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp
> 
> 
> I saw that Cnet has one that is carrier specific but it only gives up speads:
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/internet-speed-test/
> 
> 
> What are you paying for this digital player? Just curious. To be honest I didn't even know they were out there.



well, so I don't know what to think about this now. just did the test (just hit the button so not sure if I'm doing it right. said my IP address is 76.188.185.123; is this correct) and the the upload was a bit short of 400 kbps. according to the Cnet review:

So if your broadband stream can't maintain speeds between 1Mbps or (ideally) 2.2Mbps, you should instead consider one of the many competitors that offer "queue-and-view" buffering functionality (Xbox 360, PS3, Vudu, Apple TV, and the 2Wire Blockbuster box).

It was such a simple question, so does anyone know what the speed is of the 29.99 TimeWarner RoadRunner? still confused but I'm guessing unless I upgrade to a faster service I won't get good quality trying to use the Roku.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17288110
> 
> 
> well, so I don't know what to think about this now. just did the test (just hit the button so not sure if I'm doing it right. said my IP address is 76.188.185.123; is this correct) and the the upload was a bit short of 400 kbps. according to the Cnet review:
> 
> So if your broadband stream can't maintain speeds between 1Mbps or (ideally) 2.2Mbps, you should instead consider one of the many competitors that offer "queue-and-view" buffering functionality (Xbox 360, PS3, Vudu, Apple TV, and the 2Wire Blockbuster box).
> 
> It was such a simple question, so does anyone know what the speed is of the 29.99 TimeWarner RoadRunner? still confused but I'm guessing unless I upgrade to a faster service I won't get good quality trying to use the Roku.



First, sorry if I confused you. I said that Cnet was upload only, it is in fact download speed. I'm using Road Runner Turbo and on that test i hit 1.6 mb as my download speed.


According to CNETS chart you did well for your type of speed. Your speed appears to be the 384k, that's the slowest cable speed it's showing. And that fits in with Road Runners prices because they have 3 prices for their high speed internet.


So you would need to get Road Runners Turbo for the digital player that you're thinking about purchasing.


If you want to know exactly what TW says the speed is you probably need to talk to a CSR. I believe however it is in the specs that CNET gives....384k, 768k, and 1.5MB.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17288334
> 
> 
> First, sorry if I confused you. I said that Cnet was upload only, it is in fact download speed. I'm using Road Runner Turbo and on that test i hit 1.6 mb as my download speed.
> 
> 
> According to CNETS chart you did well for your type of speed. Your speed appears to be the 384k, that's the slowest cable speed it's showing. And that fits in with Road Runners prices because they have 3 prices for their high speed internet.
> 
> 
> So you would need to get Road Runners Turbo for the digital player that you're thinking about purchasing.
> 
> 
> If you want to know exactly what TW says the speed is you probably need to talk to a CSR. I believe however it is in the specs that CNET gives....384k, 768k, and 1.5MB.



nothing to apologize for. you didn't confuse me it's all the stuff and problems that goes with a simple decision to try and add to my viewing enjoyment. I though I could just buy the Roku, hook it up, and be good to go but of course that isn't the case what with router choices, internet speeds and everything else that comes down the line. And since you don't want to make a mistake by missing something that will affect that enjoyment down the line, you get overwhelmed with all of it, especially if you are like me, a person who just barely understands all this electronic rigamaroll (I knew there was a reason I got a 9 out of 36 on the math portion of my ACT test). so I will look at other options such as the xBox which I think is one to look at since it actually stores the movies, I think. thanks for keeping on the right path.


----------



## nickdawg

Start Over is back. When I tuned to SPIKETV I noticed the "To Start Over Press Select" banner.


This is good. TWC is keeping their promises and timeline.


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm having a problem with one TV. Cable is connected directly to it with no box. All channels are fine except Channel 12 (local NBC), which appears to be very weak and fuzzy. All my other TV's are fine, and all channels on this TV are fine except Channel 12. I've checked all cables and connections. Even tried an amplifier which didn't help. Any ideas?


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17290830
> 
> 
> I'm having a problem with one TV. Cable is connected directly to it with no box. All channels are fine except Channel 12 (local NBC), which appears to be very weak and fuzzy. All my other TV's are fine, and all channels on this TV are fine except Channel 12. I've checked all cables and connections. Even tried an amplifier which didn't help. Any ideas?



WICU has always been bad it always has a ghosting channel


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17282164
> 
> 
> Yes 6.3 gb is about a good middle number for how much space on a hard drive it takes. Usually it's between 5.9 and 7.2, never understood why or how.



the variation comes from the video itself. if you have a program that has say has a lot of dark scenes and somewhat static backgrounds, not as much info needs to be compressed and a smaller file size. take something like WWE raw with lots of movement, light changes and stuff like that, and you get increased data and a higher file size. I've seen 30 second clips with differences of 20-30% because of what the video is.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17291039
> 
> 
> WICU has always been bad it always has a ghosting channel



I only have the problem with Channel 12 on one TV. I have Time Warner also, this is not not OTA. The TV is an old one, could that be the reason?


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17292003
> 
> 
> I only have the problem with Channel 12 on one TV. I have Time Warner also, this is not not OTA. The TV is an old one, could that be the reason?



I think it could be the reason because it happens on my older tvs as well


----------



## shooter21198

Is it unlocked for anyone in the NEO area because it is making me purchase Center Ice


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17293738
> 
> 
> Is it unlocked for anyone in the NEO area because it is making me purchase Center Ice



Went to watch my Dodgers and there was hockey on 740. It had gone to O.T. fortunately they went to a shoot out so it didn't interfere with my game. So s NHL Center Ice was at least available for me free. Whether or not TW turned it on for free for everyone else who doesn't subscribe to a package I'm not sure. I am sure that the first week SHOULD be free.


But you gotta be kidding me. Does hockey regular seaso start this early?


----------



## nickdawg

I had no clue there was a free preview of anything. The channels are on, and I don't subscribe to anything in the 700s.


----------



## hookbill

You getting baseball too? Dodgers on 740 in HD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17294397
> 
> 
> You getting baseball too? Dodgers on 740 in HD.



No. I have 1-877-772-2253, the number for customer service. I guess they are afraid of having the channel on, even for a minute. What a bunch of cheap asses, baseball season is almost over. I wonder if the SD channels will be turned off tomorrow when baseball is on instead of hockey?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17294417
> 
> 
> No. I have 1-877-772-2253, the number for customer service. I guess they are afraid of having the channel on, even for a minute. What a bunch of cheap asses, baseball season is almost over. I wonder if the SD channels will be turned off tomorrow when baseball is on instead of hockey?



I'm showing 2 channels showing the same game tonight at 10:00. It appears I'm getting the free preview. Or they haven't shut off the channels on me.


What little I saw of the hockey in HD looked good.


----------



## Inundated

I've been getting the Center Ice free preview here. I don't know a thing about hockey, but like watching the local broadcasts/commercials/etc...they even run CBC's "Hockey Night in Canada".


----------



## hookbill

Oops. The games arnt on until tomorrow night. Didn't realize that.


Columbus vs Vancouver tomorrow at 10. No HD game.


----------



## nickdawg

What's going on with Start Over? It only seems to be active at night. When I look for it in the day, it's gone. I thought I was dreaming. Or hallucinating.


----------



## hookbill

Its just getting started. Be patient. Maybe it will be night only.


----------



## hookbill

OMW is reporting that CBS College Sports is having a free preview on TW:

_By the way, TWC tells us that there's a free preview of CBS College Sports (non-HD version for now) today through Sunday:


ARMED FORCES APPRECIATION WEEK is highlighted by a tripleheader of games on Saturday, Oct 10, including Vanderbilt at Army (NOON, PM, ET), Navy at Rice (3:30 PM, ET) and TCU at Air Force (7:30 PM, ET), as well as in-depth studio coverage throughout the day.


CBS College Sports Network is available on Time Warner Cable channel 322. The Network will feature additional ARMED FORCES APPRECIATION WEEK programming leading up to the live game action on October 10, including classic games and original programming.


CBS College Sports is usually only available in Time Warner's "Sports Tier"..._


Since I know nothing about College Sports this has no importance to me but I understand that many of you do so there you go.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/1...-followup.html


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/17275643
> 
> 
> As Hook mentioned, the article in the Chronicle Telegram did mentioned that the rollout would be staggered, so it's possible the number of existing Moto's in the Amherst/ Amherst Twp zone are less than the AL/Bay or ELyria/NR zones.
> 
> FWIW, I haven't seen anyone with a GI or Moto box around me anyway.
> 
> http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2...grade-offered/



OK, now I got to see the Moto. Had someone bring me her 6416 to see if I could pull some programming ( religious stuff) off of it. she lives in AL and I guess yep, she was turned off.


question: is there a way to pull these shows off of the drive ( after she brings me the remote)? I'm guessing because of the type of programming, it not going to be dinged but I could be wrong on this point.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/17301886
> 
> 
> OK, now I got to see the Moto. Had someone bring me her 6416 to see if I could pull some programming ( religious stuff) off of it. she lives in AL and I guess yep, she was turned off.
> 
> 
> question: is there a way to pull these shows off of the drive ( after she brings me the remote)? I'm guessing because of the type of programming, it not going to be dinged but I could be wrong on this point.



The only way I know of to do it would be if they have the option to put on VCR. You can use that for either VCR or DVD. Some of these units are firewire capable but I don't know if Moto is.


I'd think if she didn't transfer already to VCR or DVD she's pretty well SOL.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17301929
> 
> 
> The only way I know of to do it would be if they have the option to put on VCR. You can use that for either VCR or DVD. Some of these units are firewire capable but I don't know if Moto is.
> 
> 
> I'd think if she didn't transfer already to VCR or DVD she's pretty well SOL.



well I tried the FW and it installed 'drivers' but I could not see a drive. came up as a camera/scanner


Oh well...


----------



## hookbill

Vchat20, do you have a link back to the page where you had the listing for SDV channels? I'm really just curious as to whether or not TBS is SDV and I forgot how to check myself. And I'm just too damn lazy to search.


----------



## Vchat20

NP: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=20026 


I'm not at my main ODN box to check and there seems to be no such page on the MDN boxes to get a solid idea what is SDV and what's not. But I'd just throw out a wild guess that it is still a normal broadcast channel. Especially considering it is considered one of those high view channels.


----------



## nickdawg

Speaking of things that SHOULD be SDV, those two stupid "FSN HD" blue screen channels should be on HD. No sense in wasting two linear channels on that bull sh!t.


Although I would be more pissed if USA HD were on SDV, thankfully it is not.


----------



## Vchat20

Ok. Unless I am reading this wrong, Time Warner is up to their usual bait-n-switch tactics again. Got a notification of a change to the programming notices page.

 

(strikeout lines are those removed from the previous update and the yellow highlights are what's added)

Or as it is in it's current (as of October 8, 2009, the date of this original posting) state for legibility:
 


Needless to say that unless this is a typo, the majority of the channels promised to be added both this month and the next are gone.











Hopefully if all goes well I'll be rid of TWC in the coming months and be rid of this hellish garbage. Planning to go to Dish for TV, CallCentric for phone, and stick with Time Warner for internet. Will save almost $70/mo and get more from all 3 services than we get now (not one of which would be an upgrade on roadrunner from 768/512 to the standard 7mbit/512 tier) WITHOUT putting time sensitive specials into account. And if Dish releases their VIP922 receiver, there goes an added bonus of a Slingbox integrated receiver at no charge save for the box lease costs.


----------



## hookbill

I don't know how you got hold of those notices but a quick check of the TW Customer Service update shows they basically have torn that page down and replaced it with copies of notices they have sent out to newspapers.


I don't remember what was on the original notice since it had absolutely nothing I cared about. I'll keep an eye on OMW and see if they have anything to say about this.


I don't blame you for choosing satellite over cable. I really dislike Dish since they have proven themselves as thieves for stealing TiVo's copyright equipment and installing in their boxes, which is why they do have a new DVR coming out. I also find their advertising very annoying when they try to compare what they offer for NFL to what D* offers. No, it's not a better deal and you don't get the same amount of games, they just cleverly don't bother to mention that. Deceptive advertising. But that's your choice.


I also hope that if this all comes about we don't lose you in this forum, you are a very valuable member here. Please if you do go to satellite continue to drop in on us.


----------



## ErieMarty

why post new HD Channels coming in October and Novermber and then just before it suppose to happen.


You take that notice down and replace it with something else.


Why get people excited over stuff and then not deliever them.


Which is worse saying I am going to do something and not do it..or just keeping your mouths shut until the last minute when it actually does happen.


----------



## nickdawg

I just like to think that the people running the TWC website are incompetent boobs. Maybe they had someone from CSR type the updates for the site.










I didn't see anything about it at OMW, and they reported the channel additions when they were originally announced.


----------



## scnrfrq

For those of you with Roadrunner, could you tell me how it's hooked up in your house? In the room where I have my PC, the cable line is split between my cable modem and the TV in that room. I'm getting some pixelization/breakups on the HD channels on this TV, which I don't get on other TV's in the house. The last time TW was here, he said my hookup in that room is not ideal. I'm not sure how to change it, however.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17321718
> 
> 
> For those of you with Roadrunner, could you tell me how it's hooked up in your house? In the room where I have my PC, the cable line is split between my cable modem and the TV in that room. I'm getting some pixelization/breakups on the HD channels on this TV, which I don't get on other TV's in the house. The last time TW was here, he said my hookup in that room is not ideal. I'm not sure how to change it, however.



Mine is in my basement. It splits off with one line dedicated to strictly internet and then it goes out to the televisions.


If the hook up wasn't ideal then why the flock didn't he change it? Was he late for dinner or something? Even if he couldn't do it he should have wrote up a work order to have it taken care of for you.


Call them back, have them come out and do it right.


----------



## hookbill

I asked earlier if TBS was SDV because I'm seeing problems. There was a double play that occurred and the picture just froze. Shortly after that the signal was gone completely, but it was a dark screen I had not the usual grey screen that I see when TW screws up. Stayed like that for a good two minutes or so.


Anybody else got the playoffs on?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17320573
> 
> 
> I just like to think that the people running the TWC website are incompetent boobs. Maybe they had someone from CSR type the updates for the site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see anything about it at OMW, and they reported the channel additions when they were originally announced.



OMW got it from TW's web site the last time.


----------



## ErieMarty

which crapped out this week....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



Check out the latest update from twcneo:


Legal Notices for September 11, 2009


Paper: Cleveland Plain Dealer Legal Notices


Time Warner Cable's agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, and carriage of programming services is discontinued only in rare circumstances. The following agreements with programmers are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services in the near future.


*** No changes at this time. ***


From time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned:


On or after August 15, 2009, RFD TV, Military History Channel and Crime & Investigation Network will be added to the Digital Choice Package and Daystar will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


On or after September 1, 2009, CNBC World will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


On or after September 14, 2009, Hollywood Celebrity Products will be dropped from the Digital Access level of service; The Gem Shopping Network, The Black Shopping Channel and Wize Buys will be added to the Digital Access level of service.


On or after September 15, 2009, Sundance Channel will be added to the Digital Basic level of service.


From time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned on or after October 15, 2009


Sleuth and Hallmark Movies will be added to the Digital Basic Tier.


The following channels will be added to standard HD: Cartoon HD, TCM HD, HLN HD, E! HD;


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Biography HD, Disney SX HD, Outdoor HD, Fox Business News HD, Style HD, Hallmark Movies HD


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17321877
> 
> 
> I asked earlier if TBS was SDV because I'm seeing problems. There was a double play that occurred and the picture just froze. Shortly after that the signal was gone completely, but it was a dark screen I had not the usual grey screen that I see when TW screws up. Stayed like that for a good two minutes or so.
> 
> 
> Anybody else got the playoffs on?



























I've never seen a grey screen on TWC. Ever. A dark scene sounds like the normal procedure when something is wrong with the channel.


If it was SDV, the blue screen that says "Press A" would appear.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17321877
> 
> 
> I asked earlier if TBS was SDV because I'm seeing problems. There was a double play that occurred and the picture just froze. Shortly after that the signal was gone completely, but it was a dark screen I had not the usual grey screen that I see when TW screws up. Stayed like that for a good two minutes or so.
> 
> 
> Anybody else got the playoffs on?



This happens to me a lot. I didn't really notice it before SDV was turned up in my area. It seems to happen more often between 10PM and 2AM (at least that's when I typically notice it the most due to my viewing patterns), and it seems to happen very often with HGTVD (445) FDHD (446). Try watching Good Eats tonight -- I don't think I've been able to finish an entire episode in the last month without it doing this.


Also, I have noticed that when it happens, the picture becomes still, but the audio is still transmitting to my AVR in DD. Once the screen goes completely blank/black, it apparently loses the audio stream and my AVR switches to PL. Sometimes I am able to tune to a different channel and then back, and it will return to normal. Other times, it doesn't help and I give up waiting for it to correct itself after 5 minutes or so and tune to another channel.


Not sure if it's related, but I can often trigger the same behavior by pausing (or rewinding) Live TV. It's almost like there's a fault with the buffer. However, in this manner, changing to another channel and then back always works. Switching between HDMI and Component doesn't seem to make a difference in either case; neither does resetting the box in every which way described in the first post.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17321718
> 
> 
> For those of you with Roadrunner, could you tell me how it's hooked up in your house? In the room where I have my PC, the cable line is split between my cable modem and the TV in that room. I'm getting some pixelization/breakups on the HD channels on this TV, which I don't get on other TV's in the house. The last time TW was here, he said my hookup in that room is not ideal. I'm not sure how to change it, however.



Pretty much the same here. From what the smartest of the techs who has been here told me, the cable comes into the house, then to a special kind of splitter/filter that's specific to RR. Mine's a small box (about 1" on each side) with connectors on three sides. One cable in, one cable out, and one RR out. The RR out goes directly to the modem, and the cable out goes to another splitter for the rest of your TVs.


If you're trying to pull TV signals off the RR out, you're probably gonna have issues...


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17324003
> 
> 
> Pretty much the same here. From what the smartest of the techs who has been here told me, the cable comes into the house, then to a special kind of splitter/filter that's specific to RR. Mine's a small box (about 1" on each side) with connectors on three sides. One cable in, one cable out, and one RR out. The RR out goes directly to the modem, and the cable out goes to another splitter for the rest of your TVs.
> 
> 
> If you're trying to pull TV signals off the RR out, you're probably gonna have issues...



I think it's pretty much the same for all cable driven services.

I don't have RR but I do have the WOW cable package (internet, phone, TV) and it is hooked up the same way as you describe. The only difference seems to be where they split it as mine is split at the cable junction box outside the house (the small grey box actually on my house), then run separate feeds for TV and internet/voip.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17324003
> 
> 
> If you're trying to pull TV signals off the RR out, you're probably gonna have issues...



Perhaps this varies with the installation. I had RR for years, with an ordinary splitter dividing the outlet in one room to my cable modem and to a TV. Both worked fine. TWC did install an AC-powered amplifier in the basement (where the cable line enters the house); perhaps that's what's needed to allow my splitter arrangement to work.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17321982
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a grey screen on TWC. Ever. A dark scene sounds like the normal procedure when something is wrong with the channel.
> 
> 
> If it was SDV, the blue screen that says "Press A" would appear.



That's because you don't have a TiVo. If you had a TiVo a grey screen would be normal. Normal that is if the channel is down or simply unavailable.


It's totally not normal for me to have a dark screen. I know the dark screen you're talking about and this is not the same thing. Remember I have an SA 8300 too


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/17322224
> 
> 
> This happens to me a lot. I didn't really notice it before SDV was turned up in my area. It seems to happen more often between 10PM and 2AM (at least that's when I typically notice it the most due to my viewing patterns), and it seems to happen very often with HGTVD (445) FDHD (446). Try watching Good Eats tonight -- I don't think I've been able to finish an entire episode in the last month without it doing this.
> 
> 
> Also, I have noticed that when it happens, the picture becomes still, but the audio is still transmitting to my AVR in DD. Once the screen goes completely blank/black, it apparently loses the audio stream and my AVR switches to PL. Sometimes I am able to tune to a different channel and then back, and it will return to normal. Other times, it doesn't help and I give up waiting for it to correct itself after 5 minutes or so and tune to another channel.
> 
> 
> Not sure if it's related, but I can often trigger the same behavior by pausing (or rewinding) Live TV. It's almost like there's a fault with the buffer. However, in this manner, changing to another channel and then back always works. Switching between HDMI and Component doesn't seem to make a difference in either case; neither does resetting the box in every which way described in the first post.




What was different about this is the Dolby 5.1 light stayed lit. Even with the dark screen and no picture.


I'm pretty sure this was a TBS issue and not a cable issue. And per usual I didn't get an email for my subscription to this thread so I had no idea anybody had answered.


I was having sound drop offs galore this morning on MLBnet and then I had a freeze. I had to switch channels to get my picture back.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17321877
> 
> 
> I asked earlier if TBS was SDV because I'm seeing problems. There was a double play that occurred and the picture just froze. Shortly after that the signal was gone completely, but it was a dark screen I had not the usual grey screen that I see when TW screws up. Stayed like that for a good two minutes or so.
> 
> 
> Anybody else got the playoffs on?



Hook I had the same problem. my slightly educated guess it was sunspots, which do happen for about week this time a year. I noticed when the feed for the game dropped, TNT,USA FX were also gone.


Can't blame SDV for this one


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/17327104
> 
> 
> Hook I had the same problem. my slightly educated guess it was sunspots, which do happen for about week this time a year. I noticed when the feed for the game dropped, TNT,USA FX were also gone.
> 
> 
> Can't blame SDV for this one



I remember seeing a scroll on the screen about possible sunspot activity but I didn't catch the whole thing. Good call!


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17321718
> 
> 
> For those of you with Roadrunner, could you tell me how it's hooked up in your house? In the room where I have my PC, the cable line is split between my cable modem and the TV in that room. I'm getting some pixelization/breakups on the HD channels on this TV, which I don't get on other TV's in the house. The last time TW was here, he said my hookup in that room is not ideal. I'm not sure how to change it, however.



How many TV's are you feeding? You might need a DA ( the amp not the QB)

my setup is the cable comes to the home point and then splits to the different sets from there. the modem also has it's own feed.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17318316
> 
> 
> I don't know how you got hold of those notices but a quick check of the TW Customer Service update shows they basically have torn that page down and replaced it with copies of notices they have sent out to newspapers.
> 
> 
> I don't remember what was on the original notice since it had absolutely nothing I cared about. I'll keep an eye on OMW and see if they have anything to say about this.
> 
> 
> I don't blame you for choosing satellite over cable. I really dislike Dish since they have proven themselves as thieves for stealing TiVo's copyright equipment and installing in their boxes, which is why they do have a new DVR coming out. I also find their advertising very annoying when they try to compare what they offer for NFL to what D* offers. No, it's not a better deal and you don't get the same amount of games, they just cleverly don't bother to mention that. Deceptive advertising. But that's your choice.
> 
> 
> I also hope that if this all comes about we don't lose you in this forum, you are a very valuable member here. Please if you do go to satellite continue to drop in on us.



Nah. Not gonna get rid of me that easily. ;P


As far as the Dish thing though, I'm not a huge sports fan so the lack of premium sports channels doesn't bother me. At most there's ESPN, but that's the extend of the need and it's pretty much a defacto channel on any system so... As long as the customer service is ok and they don't throw hidden fees and the like at you, I'd be pretty satisfied.


Also, I have had the programming notices page set up on changedetection.com which checks daily for any changes in the page and they keep past page changes. So the last change on Sep 25th where the extra channels were noted for October and November is viewable on there and what changed from the prior update. Check it out for yourself: http://www.changedetection.com/log/t...tices_log.html


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Time Warner Cable Northeast Ohio division
> 
> Scientific Atlanta 8300HDC -- Navigator ODN v3.1.1_3



Did you not get the ODN update a few days ago? I think it was Monday night because I remember the cable box in the bedroom making a strange clicking noise followed by the "death countdown"







. I found it odd that the box clicked b/c the old Pioneer boxes used to click when they were turned on or off. The SA boxes do not.


I wouldn't be surprised if your internet service starts acting "funny". Since you post those change log things here about TWC's website with TWC's internet service.


Notice any strange vans outside, like spies?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17327254
> 
> 
> Did you not get the ODN update a few days ago? I think it was Monday night because I remember the cable box in the bedroom making a strange clicking noise followed by the "death countdown"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I found it odd that the box clicked b/c the old Pioneer boxes used to click when they were turned on or off. The SA boxes do not.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if your internet service starts acting "funny". Since you post those change log things here about TWC's website with TWC's internet service.
> 
> 
> Notice any strange vans outside, like spies?



LOL. Well if they start going all conspiracy theory on me, the Home office in Canton's getting a personal visit.










I haven't had a chance to look at my HDC box yet since I haven't been home the past week but I had a chance to pop in last night for a few minutes and it had been updated. My Aunt's 8000HD MDN box also got an update around the same time to *-19 as I think I had posted a few pages back.


Also the clicking depends on the setting you have for the outboard AC outlet on the box as that is from the relay clicking on and off. If you go between 'Always On' and 'Always Off' in the settings while the box is on you can hear it. It's possible also that the update cycled it.


----------



## scnrfrq

I have had all the output resolutions chosen on my HD8300 box so it would change channels faster. Today I hooked it up using HDMI instead of components. I then went back to components. Now when I change channels it has gone back to being slow and having to resolve the changes in resolution between channels (720p-1080i). I rebooted with no improvement. How can I get it to back to changing channels faster without resolving resolution?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17327287
> 
> 
> LOL. Well if they start going all conspiracy theory on me, the Home office in Canton's getting a personal visit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't had a chance to look at my HDC box yet since I haven't been home the past week but I had a chance to pop in last night for a few minutes and it had been updated. My Aunt's 8000HD MDN box also got an update around the same time to *-19 as I think I had posted a few pages back.



Unless you happened to check the first page of diagnostics or witness the download, you probably wouldn't know it happened. As far as I can tell, nothing changed. Everything looks and acts the same, so I guess it must be another "bug fix" somewhere deeper in the software.



> Quote:
> Also the clicking depends on the setting you have for the outboard AC outlet on the box as that is from the relay clicking on and off. If you go between 'Always On' and 'Always Off' in the settings while the box is on you can hear it. It's possible also that the update cycled it.



I thought so. I used to use the AC outlet on both of my TVs. I still used it in the bedroom up until I got the new SA box, which defaults with the outlet always on. Now I just use the TV power button.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17327377
> 
> 
> Unless you happened to check the first page of diagnostics or witness the download, you probably wouldn't know it happened. As far as I can tell, nothing changed. Everything looks and acts the same, so I guess it must be another "bug fix" somewhere deeper in the software.



Well when I popped in I found it unplugged (pretty sure it was my doing before I left) and when I plugged in and turned it on it went through and did the update process and did check the diagnostics and it read 3.1.3_2.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17327377
> 
> 
> I thought so. I used to use the AC outlet on both of my TVs. I still used it in the bedroom up until I got the new SA box, which defaults with the outlet always on. Now I just use the TV power button.



Yeah, years ago when I had one of the old pioneer boxes in my bedroom my old 17" tv was able to turn on automatically after the power was lost so I made good use of it and set it up as a makeshift alarm on one of the music choice channels.  Set a turn-on timer on the box and the AC outlet to switch on and off with the box power state and crank the volume on the tv before shutting it off and bingo. Was a nice feature.


----------



## hookbill

I got one today advising me since I was a "cable card" customer that they were moving some "lesser viewed channels" to this exciting new SDV technology.










The channels I'll miss out on unless I get one of their DVR's are HBO Latino W, Thriller Max W, Action Max W, More Max W, and Cinemax W.


Oh, these changes will be effective September 30, 2009.







Today is October 9th.










The bottom part of the letter talks about TiVo AND Moxi DVR's and that the tuner adapter is available for them. I know nothing about Moxi DVR's but apparently TA does work for them.


Letter is signed by Steve Fry too. Didn't someone tell him that he had retired? Maybe it's at the end of this year. Or maybe it was on September 30.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17328058
> 
> 
> I got one today advising me since I was a "cable card" customer that they were moving some "lesser viewed channels" to this exciting new SDV technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The channels I'll miss out on unless I get one of their DVR's are HBO Latino W, Thriller Max W, Action Max W, More Max W, and Cinemax W.



Why would you lose these channels? Something happen to your tuning adapters or what?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17328167
> 
> 
> Why would you lose these channels? Something happen to your tuning adapters or what?



Are you serious? OK.


I thought the rolling of the eyes, the title of the thread, and such would indicate that this entire letter was really a waste of my time and a tree.


Tuner adapters I already have. The letter was offering them to me if I have a TiVo. One thing I was serious about was Moxi DVR's I know nothing about them.


I don't subscribe to any of those channels anyway so irregardless of whether or not I had a TiVo and a tuner adapter I still wouldn't get them.


Point of my post was strictly sarcasm directed at TiVo.


Got it now?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17328267
> 
> 
> Are you serious? OK.
> 
> 
> I thought the rolling of the eyes, the title of the thread, and such would indicate that this entire letter was really a waste of my time and a tree.
> 
> 
> Tuner adapters I already have. The letter was offering them to me if I have a TiVo. One thing I was serious about was Moxi DVR's I know nothing about them.
> 
> 
> I don't subscribe to any of those channels anyway so irregardless of whether or not I had a TiVo and a tuner adapter I still wouldn't get them.
> 
> 
> Point of my post was strictly sarcasm directed at TiVo.
> 
> 
> Got it now?



Ahhh. Gotcha. Guess I missed that. >>


----------



## Inundated

 http://twitter.com/ohiomediawatch 



> Quote:
> Reader question: Why did promised TWC HD channels fall off Programming Notices page? We hear the channels are still on target for 10/15.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17331492
> 
> http://twitter.com/ohiomediawatch



I kind of thought they would still be on target. I think they just changed their minds on how they want to post notices.


----------



## shooter21198

I hope they are still on target


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17331505
> 
> 
> I kind of thought they would still be on target. I think they just changed their minds on how they want to post notices.



I don't like the new way they post the notices. The original screenshot with the channels listed was better. This new format is too repetitive and leaves important information out.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17332270
> 
> 
> I don't like the new way they post the notices. The original screenshot with the channels listed was better. This new format is too repetitive and leaves important information out.



This is the same way they'd been doing it earlier in other areas, like Mid-Ohio/Columbus and Cincinnati.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/17327145
> 
> 
> How many TV's are you feeding? You might need a DA ( the amp not the QB)
> 
> my setup is the cable comes to the home point and then splits to the different sets from there. the modem also has it's own feed.



I have 5 TV's. They are all OK except the one in the room with the modem. That one is pixelating/breaking up on some of the HD channels, including the locals. I've tried amps and they make no difference.


----------



## nickdawg

Holy Crap!! WOIO is showing some kind of commercial or infomercial for Clear Choice Dental in HD!!


Does WOIO have HD now?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17332957
> 
> 
> I have 5 TV's. They are all OK except the one in the room with the modem. That one is pixelating/breaking up on some of the HD channels, including the locals. I've tried amps and they make no difference.



Tune that tv to one of the worst HD channels, then remove power from the modem. Does it clear up?


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17332957
> 
> 
> I have 5 TV's. They are all OK except the one in the room with the modem. That one is pixelating/breaking up on some of the HD channels, including the locals. I've tried amps and they make no difference.



I must know - are the other TVs HD? I only ask because having five HD sets in a single house is somewhat unusual. If the other four are SD, then we're looking at the wrong thing.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17334499
> 
> 
> I must know - are the other TVs HD? I only ask because having five HD sets in a single house is somewhat unusual. If the other four are SD, then we're looking at the wrong thing.



Three sets are HD. I'm now testing without my modem on to see if that helps.


----------



## hookbill

I don't know who's writing OMW or if they are just reading our posts here in our thread but they had more on the TW HD channel watch:

_TWC WORRIES: Those actively looking for new HDTV offerings on Northeast Ohio's Time Warner Cable system don't just turn here looking for news.


They watch - like a hawk - the legal "Programming Notices" page which appears on the company's website.


Recently, Time Warner Cable changed the format of this page, so it now directly reproduces the legal notices filed for each newspaper in the TWC NEO service area.


And these notices were recently updated to remove a list of HDTV channels we reported would be added to the company's local systems on (/or after) October 15th and November 4th.


Panic visited the land! "They're turning back on their promise!", people shouted, jumping to conclusions like it was an event in the upcoming Vancouver Olympics.


And yes, they shouted that to the OMW Mailbox. We can only imagine what the Time Warner customer service reps heard.


So, we checked in with sources at Time Warner Cable's Northeast Ohio offices, and we're here to tell you - straight out of the book/radio series/movie "Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy" - "Don't panic!" (Oh, and carry a towel.) (The towel is optional.)


Our sources at Northeast Ohio's cable TV giant tell us that they are still "on target" for the previously listed channels to appear October 15th (/or after) and November 4th (/or after).


Copying from our previous entries, to put the list in one convenient place:


(On or after October 15th)


The following channels will be added to standard HD: Cartoon HD, TCM HD, HLN HD, E! HD;


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Biography HD, Disney SX HD, Outdoor HD, Fox Business News HD, Style HD, Hallmark Movies HD


The following changes are planned on or after November 4, 2009:


The Weather Channel HD will be added to standard HD.


The following channels will be added to HD with carriage level varying by area: WE HD and TV One HD.


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Planet Green HD, IFC HD and Fuse HD.


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Sports Tier: NHL Network HD, Tennis Channel HD and CBS College Sports HD.


These HD channel additions have MOSTLY been "on time" in recent months, give or take a couple of delays of a few days to a few weeks...so that's why the "/or after" above.


But we're told viewers shouldn't worry...and that the absence of the previously listed channels on the new legal notices doesn't mean they are not coming...._


Sounds like us.










We already knew this basically from the previous tweet that Inundated posted but I saw a new tweet this morning so I thought I would pass it along.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/1...anup-post.html


----------



## shooter21198

If it makes you feel any better hook I alerted OMW when I saw the program notice page change


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17335170
> 
> 
> If it makes you feel any better hook I alerted OMW when I saw the program notice page change



Don't know what you mean by that but I don't feel one way or another about it.







. I'm just passing along what I read.


At this point I don't give a rats behind what they add. I kind of want MSNBC HD. Outside of that I have everything I wanted.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm only looking forward to Cartoon, TCM, Fuse and Style in HD. I'd rather have MSNBC instead of HLN. HLN is worse than CNN in HD, I think nothing outside of primetime is HD on HLN.


Everything on MSNBC is in HD on weekdays. All of the primetime shows from 5-10pm(and their repeats, Morning Joe is also HD. Newsroom coverage during the day is done "ESPN News" style with a special HD side panel on the right side of the screen. That's better than a channel where programming is just 4:3 SD.


Also, Biography, WE and IFC stretch SD programming.


----------



## subavision212

boy, I hope this new HD channel TCT (1.0 on my Dynex lcd) isn't one of our new channels TW was promising. An HD religion channel. Yikes!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17338951
> 
> 
> boy, I hope this new HD channel TCT (1.0 on my Dynex lcd) isn't one of our new channels TW was promising. An HD religion channel. Yikes!



TCT is already on TWC. Channel 412 is "WRLMH". WRLM is channel 47, which used to be channel 67(WOAC).


It's really sad. It took TWC over a year to get WBNX, a legitimate network HD feed on the air but they put this garbage on within two months.


----------



## LesMan1

I have a SONY DHC-HDD500 High Def digital video recorder.


For the last few years - I have had this connected to my TWC CoAx signal, and have been receiving TVGOS (TV Guide listings grid) via Channel 25-1 PBS.


Recently - this stopped working all together. I stopped getting listings.


After reading a great number of posts on the various forum pages - It appeared that this may be due to the Analog-to-Digital transition. I was able to find a Firmware Upgrade for my Sony (v1.2.21) that will supposedly allow the unit to receive the "New Digital TVGOS" data... but during the firmware upgrade process I had to reset my machine, and lost the GRID and HOST CHANNEL configuration on the unit.


I have been trying all sorts of funky ideas and suggestions, monitoring and logging any / all diagnostic data ... and playing the waiting game.


Does anyone else in the CLEVELAND TWC Area have a TVGOS based TV / Recorder... and is yours working??


Does anyone have a good "Station Engineer" contact at TWC that can answer some tech questions - or provide some guidance??


Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17338951
> 
> 
> boy, I hope this new HD channel TCT (1.0 on my Dynex lcd) isn't one of our new channels TW was promising. An HD religion channel. Yikes!



Nope, it's a must carry TWC slid in a month or two back. It's WRLM/47.2, the HD subchannel of the TCT-owned station in Canton that used to be WOAC/67. TWC is stuck with it due to the must carry laws.


We don't get it here in the ex-Adelphia area fed out of Cleveland. WRLM's analog channel is on the system, but not the digital HD side.


I have no idea why there's that divide. We didn't have WDLI/17 in any form, analog or digital, for a long time...then TWC added it (analog 16) systemwide recently. WDLI is also licensed to Canton, and is also religious (TBN O&O).


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LesMan1* /forum/post/17339624
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a good "Station Engineer" contact at TWC that can answer some tech questions - or provide some guidance??



I don't think this is a TWC issue. From Trip Ericson's page on TVGOS on RabbitEars.info:

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos 



> Quote:
> TVGOS is the TV Guide On-Screen service. Some select digital TVs, DVRs, and converter boxes utilize TVGOS for guide data. Rovi, owners of Gemstar/TV Guide, has a deal with CBS and thus digital TVGOS data appears primarily on CBS stations. (Analog TVGOS data had appeared on PBS.)



That page shows that WVIZ had indeed carried analog TVGOS data, but it doesn't show WOIO carrying the digital version (gee, no surprise).


I did the TSReader caps for Trip, but I can't remember how long ago. TVGOS is not in the data for WOIO. (Oh, his list says July 6th, but judging from your experience, it probably hasn't changed.) WOIO is not the only CBS affiliate so listed...WGCL/Atlanta is another.


Trip is a regular reader here and in most of the threads, so I'm sure he'll pop in soon.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17338992
> 
> 
> It's really sad. It took TWC over a year to get WBNX, a legitimate network HD feed on the air but they put this garbage on within two months.



You'd pretty much have to believe that WRLM-HD is only on TWC 412 because WRLM forced must carry issues. I wonder why WBNX didn't do the same for its HD side, initially? Or maybe WBNX goes the other route, doing carriage agreements with TWC instead of forcing must carry.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17341448
> 
> 
> You'd pretty much have to believe that WRLM-HD is only on TWC 412 because WRLM forced must carry issues. I wonder why WBNX didn't do the same for its HD side, initially? Or maybe WBNX goes the other route, doing carriage agreements with TWC instead of forcing must carry.



Maybe it also has something to do with HD/digital now being the "normal" medium and SD/analog an afterthought. Back in 2006 WBNX was fed from the analog channel and that was "good enough". Now that every channel on the SD broadcast lineup is a downconversion of HD, it makes sense to carry the HD version as well.


I noticed the PBS multicast channels also recently showed up after 6/12. Maybe the rules changed?


I think it was even worse back in the day because I remember there being duplicate data in the guide for shows on ABC and FOX because TWC only carried WJW and WEW back when digital cable was new. Yet WKYC has supposedly been HD since 1999-2000 and I don't remember seeing that show up until much later.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17341297
> 
> 
> I don't think this is a TWC issue. From Trip Ericson's page on TVGOS on RabbitEars.info:
> 
> http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That page shows that WVIZ had indeed carried analog TVGOS data, but it doesn't show WOIO carrying the digital version (gee, no surprise).
> 
> 
> I did the TSReader caps for Trip, but I can't remember how long ago. TVGOS is not in the data for WOIO. (Oh, his list says July 6th, but judging from your experience, it probably hasn't changed.) WOIO is not the only CBS affiliate so listed...WGCL/Atlanta is another.
> 
> 
> Trip is a regular reader here and in most of the threads, so I'm sure he'll pop in soon.



I can confirm that WOIO is not carrying TVGOS data. I do see data in the VBI of WVIZ-SD in the neighborhood of lines 10-14 but I can't confirm that this is carrying TVGOS content at the moment.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17343507
> 
> 
> I can confirm that WOIO is not carrying TVGOS data. I do see data in the VBI of WVIZ-SD in the neighborhood of lines 10-14 but I can't confirm that this is carrying TVGOS content at the moment.



If it was, would that work? It doesn't sound like it's working for the OP on this subject.


----------



## Trip in VA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17341297
> 
> 
> Trip is a regular reader here and in most of the threads, so I'm sure he'll pop in soon.



I read OTA related threads, but I am here as per your request.


No Raycom stations have TVGOS, and WOIO is no exception. In the Cleveland market, the local affiliate should be WVIZ.


- Trip


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17345100
> 
> 
> If it was, would that work? It doesn't sound like it's working for the OP on this subject.



It really depends on the tv set I think. I have heard anecdotes from owners of certain brands of sets with built in ATSC tuners where it should be able to pull TVGOS data from the VBI lines on a digital 480i signal but the tv's firmware had conveniently left that part out so it had to be sent digitally in the MPEG data for it to function. Again, this is anecdotes and was only one or two brands that seemed to be affected. If it's not working for the OP and the analog VBI lines are truly on those lines (if they are visible on the screen, I have high doubts unless your tv is known to have zero overscan. This would put the VBI lines away from where the tv knows to decode that data.), it would seem that tv can only function on the digital TVGOS data OTA or via QAM.


Of course, could always consult google or your owners manual to verify.










EDIT: Sorry, let me rephrase a key point. ATSC or QAM do not visibly transmit the VBI lines like analog so if you are seeing those on your tv and it's on a digital channel, it's not gonna decode THAT visible info. MPEG-TS transmission (as used by both ATSC and QAM) embeds the VBI as extra data in the MPEG container (known as SCTE-127) where the tuner in the set directly reads that data and outputs it as necessary be it TVGOS data, Closed Captioning, whathaveyou and will not reach the display. The difference between this and Digital TVGOS is that the digital version transmits all that data as a separate program stream (very close to the definition of a subchannel for those less inclined on the terminology) and at higher data rates as a result.


Again, depends on the tv set. In a perfect world it should be able to decode the VBI data off analog channels, embedded VBI data on digital stations, and the full digital version mascaraded in a separate program stream. But it's all dependent on the firmware loaded on the set. Here's more info on the TVGOS matter btw: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=526 


It's also one reason why I always advocate those with newer sets to look up how to update the firmware on them, where to get them, and do so if there is a bug or missing feature and an update is known to fix it. TV's are now offloading tasks to powerful embedded processors and updateable software rather than doing it all largely in hardware and pre-programmed IC's like they used to. As a result the software is coded 'good enough' to get the product out the door and remaining minor bugs can be fixed later.


----------



## Rbuchina

My guide shows 9 new HD channels in its guide this evening. They all show "Not Available".


457 DXDHD

459 TOON HD

461 HLM HD

465 TCM HD

467 EHD

468 STYHD

481 OUTHD

484 HLNHD

488 FBNHD



Ray


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17345146
> 
> 
> EDIT: Sorry, let me rephrase a key point. ATSC or QAM do not visibly transmit the VBI lines like analog so if you are seeing those on your tv and it's on a digital channel, it's not gonna decode THAT visible info. MPEG-TS transmission (as used by both ATSC and QAM) embeds the VBI as extra data in the MPEG container (known as SCTE-127) where the tuner in the set directly reads that data and outputs it as necessary be it TVGOS data, Closed Captioning, whathaveyou and will not reach the display. The difference between this and Digital TVGOS is that the digital version transmits all that data as a separate program stream (very close to the definition of a subchannel for those less inclined on the terminology) and at higher data rates as a result.



Exactly, Vchat. In fact if you look through the elemental PIDs here, you'll see stream type 0x06/Teletext and two more streams labeled "tvg1 AND "tvg2" buried within their main HD stream.


----------



## nickdawg

What's going on with Faux 8? Ever since they moved "Seinfeld" to 11 and 11:30pm it hasn't been in HD, at all. The 7pm episodes used to be HD all the time and I remember the 11pm episodes being in HD. Why did they stop?


----------



## awyeah

Just noticed... we have the "Start Over" feature. I'm on the Macedonia headend. I'm usually on my TiVo, so the only channel I've noticed it on is comedy central.


I figured we'd have to be upgraded to Navigator before we could get the feature. But alas... still on SARA


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/17351439
> 
> 
> Just noticed... we have the "Start Over" feature. I'm on the Macedonia headend. I'm usually on my TiVo, so the only channel I've noticed it on is comedy central.
> 
> 
> I figured we'd have to be *upgraded* to Navigator before we could get the feature. But alas... still on SARA



Trust me, Navigator is no upgrade.










And this start over thing is starting to suck balls. Every channel it's on, pressing select makes a message that says "Title Of Show Is Not Available At This Time".


Now where have O heard that before?


----------



## hookbill

From Ohio Media Watch:

_STARTING OVER STARTING: Worth a brief mention, and "first impression"...Time Warner Cable's "Start Over" video service has made its way to the OMW World Headquarters, in the former Adelphia/Cleveland service area.


We've gotten scattered other user reports that it's live for many of our readers, as well.


Our first impressions are mostly positive, though there are some quirks.


For one, we had to dig up our Time Warner-issued cable box remote.


The universal remote we use does have the "SELECT" button that prompts the box to go back to the beginning of a "Start Over" enabled show. But the universal remote doesn't have, as far as we can determine, a mapped equivalent of the cable-remote-only red "C" button that is used to exit a "Start Over" playback in progress.


Though you can use the remote's Pause button to pause the program being played back, you can't use the Fast Forward button like you could if you'd used a DVR or TiVo to record the show, even if you're "back at the beginning". Of course, the selling point with "Start Over" is that you don't have to think about pre-recording a show if you stumble into it in the middle.


The number of "Start Over"-enabled shows on channels with the feature seems to vary. Late one night, we were even able to use the feature on random infomercials on some channels (!), but not on mainstream shows you'd expect would be covered on other (enabled) channels. We'd expect that this will mostly "fill in" soon.._

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/ 


So if you have a universal remote you can't use the C button. I imagine on programable remotes like Harmony you can designate another key for this. Maybe.


No surprise that the more popular shows or even channels are still not using this technology. Knowing TW it will be a while before they get it down correctly.


And speaking about getting it down correctly (knock on wood) have noticed that we've gone through a pretty good period with SDV. I haven't seen the usual glitches, sound drop offs, pixelations anymore then I do in their regular HD broadcast.


If you take the date that TW started SDV with it's native area and I believe that was around January of 2009 or later and apply the same theory to Start over it will only take about 9 more months before they have it right.

















Doesn't matter to me, I''ll never use it anyway.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17350336
> 
> 
> My guide shows 9 new HD channels in its guide this evening. They all show "Not Available".
> 
> 
> 457 DXDHD
> 
> 459 TOON HD
> 
> 461 HLM HD
> 
> 465 TCM HD
> 
> 467 EHD
> 
> 468 STYHD
> 
> 481 OUTHD
> 
> 484 HLNHD
> 
> 488 FBNHD
> 
> 
> 
> Ray



This was only on my 8300 DVR box. The 4250 did not show these new channels on the guide. I wonder when they will actually turn these new channels on?


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17352018
> 
> 
> This was only on my 8300 DVR box. The 4250 did not show these new channels on the guide. I wonder when they will actually turn these new channels on?
> 
> 
> Ray



I think it's suppose to start tomorrow.


----------



## scnrfrq

TW Reorganizes NE Ohio Division:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/...nk&rid=6240895


----------



## bassguitarman

I checked out the new channels former Adelphia area. All working. Now I can see Venture Bros in HD ?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17358503
> 
> 
> I checked out the new channels former Adelphia area. All working. Now I can see Venture Bros in HD ?



Completely depends on what mood Cartoon Network is at the time. Search this forum for the Cartoon Network/Nickelodeon HD thread and read all about it. Sad to say though that outside of the first runs on very specific high rating shows, it's all upconverted and stretched SD garbage. And even the first runs you are playing a roulette game on.


Though lately it seems on the SD channel a lot more shows have been showing up letterboxed so maybe that is a sign of a change of operations? Guess it's a wait and see...


----------



## schandorsky

I was kindly informed by a forum member that he was told that TW would start turning off boxes in Amherst on Oct 13. Does anyone know how long after that before we will get the HD channels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17358656
> 
> 
> I was kindly informed by a forum member that he was told that TW would start turning off boxes in Amherst on Oct 13. Does anyone know how long after that before we will get the HD channels?



They would turn the HD channels on before a box switch off. I think you got some bad information.


----------



## hookbill

I can confirm all new channels available except Fox Business News HD. Yes, I know that makes you want to cry. I got a message on the SA 8300 saying channel not available but on TiVo the Tuner Adapter has received the channel because I got the "temporarily not available press select" message.


TiVo's do not have any guide data and I don't see it at Zap2it.com. I'll phone TiVo and have them contact Tribune Media.


----------



## nickdawg

What the hell happened? They added trash like headline News HD and Biography HD and they took away Universal HD? 470 is now Palladia and Universal HD is gone as are the rest of the HD Tier channels.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17359189
> 
> 
> What the hell happened? They added trash like headline News HD and Biography HD and they took away Universal HD? 470 is now Palladia and Universal HD is gone as are the rest of the HD Tier channels.



They moved them up:

The following changes are planned on or after October 15, 2009


Sleuth and Hallmark Movies will be added to the Digital Basic Tier; Hallmark Movies HD will be added for customers with the Digital Basic Tier.


The following channels will be relocated to new channel positions: On standard HD, Palladia HD from 469 to 470. On the HD Tier: Universal HD from 470 to 496; Smithsonian HD from 471 to 497; Mav TV HD from 472 to 498 and MGM HD from 473 to 499.


The following changes are planned on or after November 4, 2009:


Team HD will be added for customers who subscribe to the NBA Sports Package.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17358915
> 
> 
> They would turn the HD channels on before a box switch off. I think you got some bad information.



actually my info was pretty solid


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, these channels suck balls. Disney XD, never watched it anyway. Cartoon Network, sounded promising because some of the shows on Adult Swim are HD, but so far all I've seen is funhouse mirror. Hallmark Movies, total waste of bandwidth. S**tty movies in SD, with the word "HD" in the right sidebar. TMC still shows movies in SD even on the HD channel. E!, never watch that entertainment crap anyway and even their "news" is in SD. Style, I like Clean House so it might be good to see the dirty houses in HD(if they're gonna show it in HD). Biography, more stretchovision like A&E. Outdoor channel, the murder of animals in HD. Yippee!! Headline News, coma inducing news with pretty blue "HD" sidebars. FOX Out Of Business News, apparently it is out of business already because there's just a blank screen!!


What, did TWC run out of shopping channels to add to the analog tier?? You can take these channels...


----------



## hookbill

I just saw they ending of High School Confidential on TMC. It was widescreen but letter boxed.


Attempted to call in the channel changes to TiVo. Got a real bozo on the phone. First he wanted me to play stupid TiVo tricks but when I explained that the channels were brand new today he took 2 of them and said that was all he needed.


I got a ticket number, that's all I needed. I should have hung up and played representative roulette.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/17359955
> 
> 
> actually my info was pretty solid



OK. So you're saying they are shutting off boxes before adding the channels? Well, it's TW I suppose anything is possible.










For the many of you who care, Fox Business News HD is on now.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17360145
> 
> 
> I just saw they ending of High School Confidential on TMC. It was widescreen but letter boxed.



Oh great, another windowbox HD channel. Just like Sci-Fi HD.










Why the HELL do networks that are HD not show 16:9 material filling the damn 16:9 screen??? That pisses me off beyond belief. I already hate letterbox enough because of how it looks on SDTV sets, I hate it even more when my HDTV is made a size smaller.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17360326
> 
> 
> Oh great, another windowbox HD channel. Just like Sci-Fi HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why the HELL do networks that are HD not show 16:9 material filling the damn 16:9 screen??? That pisses me off beyond belief. I already hate letterbox enough because of how it looks on SDTV sets, I hate it even more when my HDTV is made a size smaller.



I think it's because they are not showing it in film, they are showing the DVD of these movies as is. Just a guess.


It was pretty clean from what I could see, just had the top and bottom chopped off. I think on the credit's it said, "Presented in letterbox to really piss off nickdawg."


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17360370
> 
> 
> I think it's because they are not showing it in film, they are showing the DVD of these movies as is. Just a guess.
> 
> 
> It was pretty clean from what I could see, just had the top and bottom chopped off. I think on the credit's it said, "Presented in letterbox to really piss off nickdawg."



The top and bottom wasn't chopped off. It's the full 16:9 picture, just squashed to fit a 4:3 screen, with the bars on the side because it is a HDTV.


haha, I remember NBC used to put that on the screen when they started letterbox. Thankfully NBC shows everything in 4:3 again. Sadly the same can't be said for USA. Oh well, at least we have USA HD now!


----------



## Ben Music

And here we are, out here in the old Comcast Elyria/North Ridgeville area still waiting for everything. No SDV, no new HD channels, no start over, and no end in sight. I'm starting to feel like the lost stepchild of TWC. My SVD adapter box just blinks it's green light in a series of eight blinks. Even the power button won't shut it off. Yes, I know can pull the plug on it, but I keep hopeing that something will change for the better.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17360830
> 
> 
> And here we are, out here in the old Comcast Elyria/North Ridgeville area still waiting for everything. No SDV, no new HD channels, no start over, and no end in sight. I'm starting to feel like the lost stepchild of TWC. My SVD adapter box just blinks it's green light in a series of eight blinks. Even the power button won't shut it off. Yes, I know can pull the plug on it, but I keep hopeing that something will change for the better.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Ben...8 blinks and a pause means that thing is bricked. You have to call them and have them send you an addressable hit or else it will never work.


Trust me on this, I've had this happen a few times with my tuner adapters.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17361194
> 
> 
> Ben...8 blinks and a pause means that thing is bricked. You have to call them and have them send you an addressable hit or else it will never work.
> 
> 
> Trust me on this, I've had this happen a few times with my tuner adapters.



Thank's Hook for your insite. Unless you think this is a bad idea, I think I will just unplug it and wait for our area to get SDV. I will then call them for the addressable hit.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17361538
> 
> 
> Thank's Hook for your insite. Unless you think this is a bad idea, I think I will just unplug it and wait for our area to get SDV. I will then call them for the addressable hit.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



It's not doing anything anyway. Pull the plug then deal with it later when you get your case of SDV. Ha ha. Sounds like a disease doesn't it?


----------



## edjrwinnt

Just a quick note in case no one realizes it yet; Time Warner sucks!







My wife and I's favorite show started last night, Nip Tuck, and we had to watch it in crappy analog SD because we don't have FXHD yet.


My one year negotiated deal with Time Warner ends on the 25th of this month. I have to call and see what kind of deal I can get for the next year. I would just switch to DirecTV but they don't have the new DirecTiVo out yet. Sorry for the rant.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm feeling the urge to dump TWC again *because* of this recent round of HD channel additions. They added total s**t over channels like MSNBC and SPIKE TV. Headline News has absolutely no HD at all. Right now both channels are doing "breaking news" coverage. CNN is in HD with the Situation Room. Headline News is in SD broadcasting from whatever 1980s studio they have. So I guess they can't even patch HD through for breaking news. But the boner pill commercials are HD!! MSNBC broadcasts in HD ALL DAMN DAY!!


Hallmark movie channel is as big of a waste as Lifetime movie channel. LMC broadcasts movies in letterbox AND stretched. Hallmark broadcasts in 4:3 SD with the letters "HD" in the right sidebar, as if that makes it HD.


----------



## hdtvfan2005

I'm still waiting for MSNBC HD.


----------



## hookbill

Just wanted to let the TiVo people know that the new guide data is now available. If you don't see it tell TiVo to call in.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17360151
> 
> 
> OK. So you're saying they are shutting off boxes before adding the channels? Well, it's TW I suppose anything is possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the many of you who care, Fox Business News HD is on now.



the way I understood it, it done on a node by node basis.

but when the kill it...cant say they didn't warn ya.......


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17361194
> 
> 
> Ben...8 blinks and a pause means that thing is bricked. You have to call them and have them send you an addressable hit or else it will never work.
> 
> 
> Trust me on this, I've had this happen a few times with my tuner adapters.



Grrr... Mine's been doing this since Tuesday night. Last time it happened, I called and the rep had it working within a few minutes. Called yesterday, pushed a bunch of digits on my phone, and was told the wait time was 13 to 26 minutes. 40 minutes later, someone answered - conversation was as follows:


Rep: Thanks for calling TWC, where our phone system doesn't know what the hell's going on. How may I help you?


Me: I have a tuning adapter from you that is connected to my TiVo. It's doing the eight-blink thing that requires you to send a reset signal to it.


Rep: We don't do TiVo.


Me: This is for a tuning adapter provided by you for use with my TiVo. You'll see it under my account.


Rep:


She actually hung up on me. I haven't been that irritated by a moron in a long time... Unfortunately, I didn't her name...


Still trying to get my TA working - maybe I'll try calling in the early afternoon in hopes that the stupidity factor is lower during the day.


----------



## nickdawg

I gotta admit that I actually like TOONHD even though it is strechovision. Looking past the stretched picture, the quality is far superior to the analog channel. The colors are bright, the picture is clear. I think I can tolerate stretchovision.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17364180
> 
> 
> I gotta admit that I actually like TOONHD even though it is strechovision. Looking past the stretched picture, the quality is far superior to the analog channel. The colors are bright, the picture is clear. I think I can tolerate stretchovision.



I'm curious. Is it a linear stretch or a Food Network style stretch? If the former, that's fixable with some tweaking.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17364188
> 
> 
> I'm curious. Is it a linear stretch or a Food Network style stretch? If the former, that's fixable with some tweaking.



It looks like it is a linear stretch. I'm watching Family Guy right now and when there is horizontal "panning" the stuff on the sides of the screen is not distorted or larger than the middle of the screen.


It seems alot like the episodes of Family Guy on TBS, which also looks like it is using linear stretch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17364025
> 
> 
> Grrr... Mine's been doing this since Tuesday night. Last time it happened, I called and the rep had it working within a few minutes. Called yesterday, pushed a bunch of digits on my phone, and was told the wait time was 13 to 26 minutes. 40 minutes later, someone answered - conversation was as follows:
> 
> 
> Rep: Thanks for calling TWC, where our phone system doesn't know what the hell's going on. How may I help you?
> 
> 
> Me: I have a tuning adapter from you that is connected to my TiVo. It's doing the eight-blink thing that requires you to send a reset signal to it.
> 
> 
> Rep: We don't do TiVo.
> 
> 
> Me: This is for a tuning adapter provided by you for use with my TiVo. You'll see it under my account.
> 
> 
> Rep:
> 
> 
> She actually hung up on me. I haven't been that irritated by a moron in a long time... Unfortunately, I didn't her name...
> 
> 
> Still trying to get my TA working - maybe I'll try calling in the early afternoon in hopes that the stupidity factor is lower during the day.



Yeah, the 8 blink thing there is nothing that can be done about that you just got to find a rep who is familiar with with the TA to get them to fix it. Here is the number to the *TW National Cable Card Support hot line: 866.532.2598.* Just make sure when you call it you tell them that TW transferred you to them, that way they won't get pissed off and huffy. They can fix your issue. A wait may be involved, from what I understand there is only 2 people who work this line for the entire country. I haven't used this number in about a year but I just tried it and it works.


Did you see where TiVo has added Blockbuster to our video on demand selections? Now we have Netflix, Blockbuster, and Amazon. Pretty good selection to chose from if you want to watch a movie.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17364597
> 
> 
> Did you see where TiVo has added Blockbuster to our video on demand selections? Now we have Netflix, Blockbuster, and Amazon. Pretty good selection to chose from if you want to watch a movie.



Unlike Netflix, Blockbuster does apparently work on the S2...I got it added to mine the other day. Amazon should also work on the S2, of course, but Netflix requires S3/HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/17365390
> 
> 
> Unlike Netflix, Blockbuster does apparently work on the S2...I got it added to mine the other day. Amazon should also work on the S2, of course, but Netflix requires S3/HD.



Amazon will only work with downloading a movie. Amazon also offers streaming videos as well now. I don't know if they even offer the old "download" service, but I do know you can purchase a movie so maybe they do.


----------



## schandorsky

There switching out boxes in Elyria now. They are being notified by automated phone calls.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17362129
> 
> 
> I'm feeling the urge to dump TWC again *because* of this recent round of HD channel additions. They added total s**t over channels like MSNBC and SPIKE TV. Headline News has absolutely no HD at all. Right now both channels are doing "breaking news" coverage. CNN is in HD with the Situation Room. Headline News is in SD broadcasting from whatever 1980s studio they have. So I guess they can't even patch HD through for breaking news. But the boner pill commercials are HD!! MSNBC broadcasts in HD ALL DAMN DAY!!
> 
> 
> Hallmark movie channel is as big of a waste as Lifetime movie channel. LMC broadcasts movies in letterbox AND stretched. Hallmark broadcasts in 4:3 SD with the letters "HD" in the right sidebar, as if that makes it HD.




I agree with MSNBC and Spike...but what quality HD channels are out there that we are not getting....that others are.


I wonder if they will ever add the Extra HD channels from HBO/Showtime other then the Main One. I would even take HBO in Demand in HD..just sucks using their Demand and getting it in Standard and not HD


----------



## hookbill

If they added Spike I might start watching wrestling again in HD. I agree Spike and MSNBC HD channels would be nice.


I took a casual glance at some of the new channels offered last night and I didn't see but 1 show that was in HD during Prime Time. I don't think I've seen any HD movies on TMC, what's the point of having a HD channel if you don't show HD.


You know what I think? I think John Q Public doesn't know the difference. I think that if you label a channel as HD the majority of people don't even realize it isn't in HD. Even with bars. And all TW cares about is "adding HD channels" as opposed to adding quality HD channels. So we will continue to get more of these crummy HD channels for the next few months.


I don't think TW has control on what HBO shows on their On Demand channel, I think that's up to HBO. I could be wrong.


----------



## ErieMarty

If you go to HBO web page and look at current shows..all their channels are listed in HD...I think Show ime is the same.


interesting point about not all HD channels are in HD. Maybe thats why some Channels/Show look better then others to me on my HD TV..I just assumed the feed TW got or is giving me isn't as good as others and thats the reason for the quality difference.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17370654
> 
> 
> If you go to HBO web page and look at current shows..all their channels are listed in HD...I think Show ime is the same.
> 
> 
> interesting point about not all HD channels are in HD. Maybe thats why some Channels/Show look better then others to me on my HD TV..I just assumed the feed TW got or is giving me isn't as good as others and thats the reason for the quality difference.



Had your eyes checked lately?










Just kidding you, but seriously you're quite mistaken in regards to HBO.


I did take a trip over to HBO's web site and they only have 1 HD channel. Go here and look at the column on the left towards the bottom. There is a listing of "other HBO channels." Sorry Marty there is only 1 HBO HD channel.


Also it appears they are in control of what we see on demand. It's not TW that has control over that.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17372125
> 
> 
> Had your eyes checked lately?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding you, but seriously you're quite mistaken in regards to HBO.
> 
> 
> I did take a trip over to HBO's web site and they only have 1 HD channel. Go here and look at the column on the left towards the bottom. There is a listing of "other HBO channels." Sorry Marty there is only 1 HBO HD channel.
> 
> 
> Also it appears they are in control of what we see on demand. It's not TW that has control over that.



All HBO channels are available in HD. Depends upon the provider. Following is copied from the HBO site: http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet "Experience HBO and Cinemax in HD. All channels are now available in SD and HD (where offered by your local provider). Questions?"


D* currently provides only HBO East and West in HD; but rumors are that all the others will be added first quarter 2010.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/17372267
> 
> 
> All HBO channels are available in HD. Depends upon the provider. Following is copied from the HBO site: "Experience HBO and Cinemax in HD. All channels are now available in SD and HD (where offered by your local provider). Questions?"
> 
> 
> D* currently provides only HBO East and West in HD; but rumors are that all the others will be added first quarter 2010.



I believe you of course and now that I think about it you are right, I do remember hearing that other HBO channels are available on D* in HD.


I went and looked at the web page I linked however. What can I say? So is your link different then mine?


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17372284
> 
> 
> I believe you of course and now that I think about it you are right, I do remember hearing that other HBO channels are available on D* in HD.
> 
> 
> I went and looked at the web page I linked however. What can I say? So is your link different then mine?



Yes. Plus, I've edited my post to provide the link.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/17372302
> 
> 
> Yes. Plus, I've edited my post to provide the link.



Well we are at the same site, you just went to the schedule. But you are correct if I had researched more and thought on it a bit I wouldn't have posted. I just saw what I saw.










Apologies if necessary Marty.


----------



## nickdawg

FSN needs to hang it's head in shame. There are two fncking channels of FSNHD on TWC and not one of them is showing the Zips game. I really don't care if it is in HD or not, I'd be happy enough to not have to watch the analog version of FSN.


Seriously, this game looks like it was recorded on VHS in 1985, uploaded to You Tube then shown on my TV. It's fuzzy AND there's digital blocking in the picture.










Right now I'd take an HD channel that stretches the picture over this.


----------



## mnowlin

Hmm... I could see HBO HD On Demand as being a bit of a bandwidth challenge. The only way I see this working is via SDV, and there's no way they should do this before they get the SDV glitches worked out. (My TA is still dead - tech will be here Monday to make dumb looks at it.) Even with SDV, there's still only so many HD signals they can cram into one neighborhood at a time...


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17374475
> 
> 
> Hmm... I could see HBO HD On Demand as being a bit of a bandwidth challenge. The only way I see this working is via SDV, and there's no way they should do this before they get the SDV glitches worked out.



You do realize that SDV and VOD come from the same gene pool right?


VOD=Limited selection of VOD feeds per node, used as VOD programs are 'tuned' by customers in that node.

SDV=Limited selection of SDV feeds per node, used as SDV channels are tuned by customers in that node.


Only difference is with VOD each feed can only be used by a single customer at a time. With SDV, when a customer tunes to a given SDV channel and it starts broadcasting on it's assigned SDV feed, subsequent viewers tuning to that channel will tune to that feed as well in a multicast manner such as we are accustomed to with traditional non-SDV digital channels.


Also, no matter what type of video is being run over a VOD feed, it's gonna use the same chunk of spectrum/bandwidth ala the QAM it is running on. Always going to be a 38mbit slot of bandwidth no matter what is being fed across it. And we already have HD VOD which has no problems with the existing system.


I doubt it is a bandwidth issue more than it is a storage issue on the VOD servers. It may also very well be other business related issues between TWC and HBO. We do not know.


----------



## nickdawg

The last thing I want is more HD VOD. IN fact, I'd like less VOD as it's just a BS selling point used by the cable companies as a substitute for real HD channels. How many years did they wave that "HD Showcase" crap in our faces rather than adding the actual networks?


I think server issues are key here. Think about a HD DVR. The same hard drive that can record 90 hours of SD can only do 20 hours HD. And how many hours of programming are on HBO VOD? Until hard drive technology changes, I don't think we'll see much in the HD department outside of linear channels. Which is fine with me.


----------



## ErieMarty

No problem..I am usually the one who post something and finds out I am wrong.


as far as HBO on Demand in HD..I assume it would work like the PRIME TIME on demand in HD...


it would only send the show you pick in HD to your TV and not feeding them all to you like they do right now for the regular HD Channels


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17374503
> 
> 
> You do realize that SDV and VOD come from the same gene pool right?
> 
> 
> VOD=Limited selection of VOD feeds per node, used as VOD programs are 'tuned' by customers in that node.
> 
> SDV=Limited selection of SDV feeds per node, used as SDV channels are tuned by customers in that node.



Yea, I know... In hindsight, I was a bit vague about my point - several beers worth of vagueness.










What I meant to say is that adding at bunch of HD streams coming from a node would suck up way more bandwidth than what VOD currently uses, and bandwidth management would be a bit tricky if a lot of people in an area are watching HD VOD. I don't know how much capacity TW has between each front end and the local distribution nodes, but I imagine there's not a huge amount of unused space. The total bandwidth required by several hundred people watching HD VOD could be more that what TW can handle at a front end, so it might require offloading some of the VOD server side to a more localized system.


----------



## hookbill

Last night before the NCLS got underway I changed channels to 442 and got a blank grey screen (equivalent to the blue screen). I thought maybe there was a problem with TBS so I changed channels. I had nothing. Not even analog.


A quick check with my upstairs TiVo confirmed the cable wasn't out. So I rebooted. The Tuner Adapter however didn't "reboot" along with my TiVo so I had to mess with that. I got it up and running in full by start of game time.


Maybe TW was trying to do me a favor considering the score.


Anyway it's lights out in my house because of the parrots (see sig) at 10:00 pm. I went to put the "game," if you want to call it that on my other TiVo and had the exact same problem. Remember, I checked it earlier and it was working fine. A reboot and unplugging the Tuner Adapter brought it back.


I can't believe such a freak occurrence could happen to both DVR's. Time Warner what were you up to last night?


Oh and the SA 8300? No problem with that at all.


I got to think TW sent out some kind of signal that caused this. Did you guys notice anything at all around either 7:30 pm or 10:00 pm on your DVR's or STB?


----------



## schandorsky

Anybody else not receiving Espn HD, ESPN2 HD, TNT HD, or TBS HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17382652
> 
> 
> Anybody else not receiving Espn HD, ESPN2 HD, TNT HD, or TBS HD



Checked TBS and ESPN as soon as I saw your post. I'm not having any issues in Baninbridge with these channels.


I was concerned about TBS. NLCS is on there tonight. Don't scare me like that, I went through enough last night.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17382700
> 
> 
> Checked TBS and ESPN as soon as I saw your post. I'm not having any issues in Baninbridge with these channels.
> 
> 
> I was concerned about TBS. NLCS is on there tonight. Don't scare me like that, I went through enough last night.



We, in Amherst, have had channels go off and on for the last month, probably because of the change over to SDV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17382896
> 
> 
> We, in Amherst, have had channels go off and on for the last month, probably because of the change over to SDV.



Interesting. None of those channels are SDV. It shouldn't affect them at all.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17382907
> 
> 
> Interesting. None of those channels are SDV. It shouldn't affect them at all.



They have been moving channels to different QAM locations.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17383202
> 
> 
> They have been moving channels to different QAM locations.



They have those new territories now. IIRC you and I would be in two different territories. Perhaps that's why you're missing the channels and I'm not. And I guess if they are adding SDV, and it's about time you suffered like the rest of us, those changes could result in temporary black outs.


Let us know when it comes back up.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17383222
> 
> 
> They have those new territories now. IIRC you and I would be in two different territories. Perhaps that's why you're missing the channels and I'm not. And I guess if they are adding SDV, and it's about time you suffered like the rest of us, those changes could result in temporary black outs.
> 
> 
> Let us know when it comes back up.



They all came back on except TBSHD. TBS HD has been the only HD channel, other than locals, that has been in the clear without a cable box.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17383222
> 
> 
> They have those new territories now. IIRC you and I would be in two different territories. Perhaps that's why you're missing the channels and I'm not. And I guess if they are adding SDV, and it's about time you suffered like the rest of us, those changes could result in temporary black outs.
> 
> 
> Let us know when it comes back up.



TBS HD came back on around 7:30


----------



## mnowlin

Well, the TWC tech came out today to check my tuning adapter... Mine was the first TA this particular tech had ever seen (not his fault), so we were off to a roaring start. After multiple phone calls, signal checks at several locations, etc., he finally reached someone at their national CableCard support group. Another 45 minutes of testing, rebooting, checking diagnostics on the Tivo, and the CC support guy decided that the TA needed to be swapped out. Of course the tech didn't have one with him, so he tracked one down and returned within an hour. About 15-20 minutes after being connected, it synced up and all my channels were back.










One interesting bit for the TA users to file in the back of their minds: When we were poking around trying to get the old TA to work, it would sometimes start the "8 blinks then pause" bit indicating it wasn't authorized, and other times do the continuous blinking that says it can't find it's Mommy. (I've been seeing this behavior ever since the problems started.) If you have a TA with an inconsistent blink pattern after reboots, it might be time to replace the unit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17385184
> 
> 
> Well, the TWC tech came out today to check my tuning adapter... Mine was the first TA this particular tech had ever seen (not his fault), so we were off to a roaring start. After multiple phone calls, signal checks at several locations, etc., he finally reached someone at their national CableCard support group. Another 45 minutes of testing, rebooting, checking diagnostics on the Tivo, and the CC support guy decided that the TA needed to be swapped out. Of course the tech didn't have one with him, so he tracked one down and returned within an hour. About 15-20 minutes after being connected, it synced up and all my channels were back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One interesting bit for the TA users to file in the back of their minds: When we were poking around trying to get the old TA to work, it would sometimes start the "8 blinks then pause" bit indicating it wasn't authorized, and other times do the continuous blinking that says it can't find it's Mommy. (I've been seeing this behavior ever since the problems started.) If you have a TA with an inconsistent blink pattern after reboots, it might be time to replace the unit.



I've never had an occasion with the TA when I wasn't able to bring it back except if I got the 8 blinks and a pause. That, according to their Cable Cards people, is a brick mode. You need a hit to revive it and it's a special kind of hit, not just the regular ones the CSR's do.


I've had it blinking in all kinds of other ways, continuous flashing after a 3 quick blink then what appears to be 4 blinks then it shuts down. It comes back up on it's own and thats when I see the fast blinking. Solution is simply unplug the unit, leave it unplugged for 30 seconds and plug it in. If that doesn't work then you unplug the USB cord. One way or another, I get it working.


These problems we experience with our TA from what I've read in other threads are unusual. Most peoples TA seem to work fine from what I hear.


One thing I can tell you to look for is if you do a reboot the TA should go into a moderate 6 flashes and a pause mode. That is normal and when reboot is completed you should have a green light. If you are rebooting and the light stays solid then while it's in reboot you may want to go ahead and unplug both the power and USB and plug it back in. I've done this and had it come back with a solid light. After any reboot it's a good idea to take a look at the bottom of the TiVo Diaganostic screen, TA should read Operational and show channels received.


----------



## shooter21198

I woke up today with a nice gift jumbled and broken guide data on my 4250


----------



## Tim Lones

For those in the Canton area..


WIVM is now on digital channel 367. WVIZ-PBS Create takes WIVM's old spot at 365..


Also:

A note for local classic TV fans..A new special about Ghoulardi/Ernie Anderson will premiere Next Tuesday, Oct. 27 at 9PM on Western Reserve PBS 45/49. The Hour long special will feature new interviews with Chuck Schodowski, Tom Feran, Mike Olszewski, Ghoulardifest producer Ron Garsteck and others..The special will be shown several more times on 45-1 and 45-2 Fusion In the days following..Details and a film clip here..

http://clevelandclassicmedia.blogspo...re-on-pbs.html


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvfan2005* /forum/post/17362241
> 
> 
> I'm still waiting for MSNBC HD.



Check your service on or about November 4th.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17396465
> 
> 
> Check your service on or about November 4th.



How does this guy know stuff like this?










Its my birthday present from TW.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17396539
> 
> 
> How does this guy know stuff like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its my birthday present from TW.



My birthday gift would be an actual free preview of NHL Center Ice like we were supposed to have, but didn't


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17396539
> 
> 
> How does this guy know stuff like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its my birthday present from TW.



and for 50 cents, he can guess your weight


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17396465
> 
> 
> Check your service on or about November 4th.



No. The Weather Channel, WE, Fuse and other channels that are NOT MSNBC are scheduled to be added on November 4.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17397343
> 
> 
> No. The Weather Channel, WE, Fuse and other channels that are NOT MSNBC are scheduled to be added on November 4.



If Cathode Kid says it will happen, it will happen.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/17397313
> 
> 
> and for 50 cents, he can guess your weight



Stand under a coconut tree long enough and you eventually get hit by a coconut.


----------



## hookbill

Hey guys I'm testing something on my blackberry and I need a response from anybody to this post. Just a OK I'm responding, ***** about TW whatever you like.


Appreciate it in advance.


----------



## Rbuchina

Hook,

I'll be your Huckleberry.

Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17400148
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> I'll be your Huckleberry.
> 
> Ray



Thanks Ray. Got just what I needed.


----------



## schandorsky

Meanwhile in Amherst we wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17400299
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in Amherst we wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait!!!



They say good things come to those who wait. They also purchase cars from Howie Long who in his spare time sells Chevys.








Cathode Kid, you got any of your famous predictions here for our good buddy schandorsky?


----------



## nickdawg

Maybe Amherst is getting MSNBC HD on November 7th.










Maybe we're all getting MSNBC HD!







I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## tprevett

We have absolutly no competition in the Lorain county area. Time Warner takes the sweet ole time getting us anything! Boy I wish the evil empire (at&t) or Fios would come into the area.. How come we are so locked out from everything here? Windstream & Time Warner.. when you care enough to get screwed by the best(or worst). Heck we can't even get WOW.. bu my neighbor 3 doors down (well not really 3 doors down, but you get the point) in Cuyahoga can get anything they want?)


I can't believe that they were bragging on their updates page that after these latest hdtv channels they will have 30 hdtv channels available. Heck, I can get 30 OTA channels..


Can't we complain to the FCC or anything like that..


Sorry for my rant


Prev


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tprevett* /forum/post/17402392
> 
> 
> We have absolutly no competition in the Lorain county area. Time Warner takes the sweet ole time getting us anything! Boy I wish the evil empire (at&t) or Fios would come into the area.. How come we are so locked out from everything here? Windstream & Time Warner.. when you care enough to get screwed by the best(or worst). Heck we can't even get WOW.. bu my neighbor 3 doors down (well not really 3 doors down, but you get the point) in Cuyahoga can get anything they want?)
> 
> 
> I can't believe that they were bragging on their updates page that after these latest hdtv channels they will have 30 hdtv channels available. Heck, I can get 30 OTA channels..
> 
> 
> Can't we complain to the FCC or anything like that..
> 
> 
> Sorry for my rant
> 
> 
> Prev



I feel your pain. If the new DirecTiVo was out I would jump ship in a heart beat. I may just give Time Warner until mid-November and switch regardless of whether the new DirecTiVo is available or not.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tprevett* /forum/post/17402392
> 
> 
> We have absolutly no competition in the Lorain county area. Time Warner takes the sweet ole time getting us anything! Boy I wish the evil empire (at&t) or Fios would come into the area.. How come we are so locked out from everything here? Windstream & Time Warner.. when you care enough to get screwed by the best(or worst). Heck we can't even get WOW.. bu my neighbor 3 doors down (well not really 3 doors down, but you get the point) in Cuyahoga can get anything they want?)
> 
> 
> I can't believe that they were bragging on their updates page that after these latest hdtv channels they will have 30 hdtv channels available. Heck, I can get 30 OTA channels..
> 
> 
> Can't we complain to the FCC or anything like that..
> 
> 
> Sorry for my rant
> 
> 
> Prev



Check out this link. http://www.com.ohio.gov/admn/vsa/ 


Cable is regulated by the state. You would need to complain to them about your concerns.


This regulation by the way was pushed through in a joint effort by your friends at AT&T and Time Warner Cable.


----------



## Inundated

FiOS isn't coming to anywhere, locally, that doesn't already have Verizon landline service. And even in those areas (e.g. Medina County), they probably don't have enough of a customer base for Verizon to make the investment in infrastructure.


Having long ago been a customer of what used to be GTE in Sharon Township, Medina County, the idea of FiOS there blows me away. When I lived there in the mid-80's, GTE still didn't have true touch tone service...their system picked up the touch tones, then converted them "on the fly" to pulses!!!


----------



## Vchat20

Yes. Keep in mind when it comes to both landline and cable providers, generally you are stuck with what you have. If you have AT&T, don't plan on getting Sprint/Embarq or Verizon unless you move or they take over your territory. In the same light for cable: If you have Time Warner, do not plan on getting Comcast or Armstrong unless you move or they take over. Thank overly territorial franchising agreements for this. There are VERY few areas I know of that will actually allow service competition in the same territory (Columbus is one with Time Warner/Insight and WOW).


We have Sprint/Embarq here as the local landline and I'd lop off an arm and a leg as a sacrifice to have them replaced by Verizon or AT&T. Sadly hell would have to permanently ice over and even then I'd be SOL.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17403259
> 
> 
> There are VERY few areas I know of that will actually allow service competition in the same territory (Columbus is one with Time Warner/Insight and WOW).



Some of the Cleveland area also has WOW, which started out as an alternative system by the old Ameritech (ex-Ohio Bell, current AT&T).


----------



## nickdawg

I've wanted FIOS in the past and even flirted with the idea of AT&T. But now I think I'm sticking with TWC since the HD channel addition has picked up, the SDV issues are under control and the level of suckage of Navigator is at a tolerable level.


----------



## nickdawg

What's wrong with TWC? Once again I have a fncked up 4250HDC box. I was watching channel 03, WKYC(analog) and at 9AM the banner on WKYC said "FOX News at 5AM". Now it says "Action News This Morning" on WKYC and the Dr. Oz Show on channel 05 says "Hometime" from 10-11AM.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17405399
> 
> 
> What's wrong with TWC? Once again I have a fncked up 4250HDC box. I was watching channel 03, WKYC(analog) and at 9AM the banner on WKYC said "FOX News at 5AM". Now it says "Action News This Morning" on WKYC and the Dr. Oz Show on channel 05 says "Hometime" from 10-11AM.



Guide data in SA 8300 appears to be correct.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17405660
> 
> 
> Guide data in SA 8300 appears to be correct.



Same here. 8300 is fine, it's just the 4250 box.


----------



## ed1202

CNN's Atlanta studios, including the main CNN newsroom, are now broadcasting in 16:9. While the video may be in a widescreen format, CNN is currently up converting the video to fit the screen while still using SD cameras. Via Inside Cable News:


Following up on yesterday's HD news on CNN Atlanta, I can now finally, after missing it yesterday, confirm that Atlanta has gone HD. And my emailer is correct. They are using morphed SD video to reach 16:9 mode in the studio to make almost HD similar to what the O'Reilly Factor does. Does this mean CNN is saving the full HD cameras for the rumored new studio due to logistical reasons?


Hopefully they are waiting to use the new cameras with the rumored new set November is quickly approaching, so we may see changes soon.


----------



## shooter21198

nickdawg that happened to me earlier this week


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17400299
> 
> 
> Meanwhile in Amherst we wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait!!!



Well, they're proceeding. My neighbor ( in 'the valley"







had a Moto ( I didnt know he did) and he done got blowed up Tuesday. He got a nice shiney machine now.


Gwad, what did some people do when it was max 36 channels with the lovely 'box' of 12 switches and a lever to select A, B, or C.


----------



## schandorsky

We are getting a few channels with the "Start Over" function. Sometimes it works other times not (no sound).

Also response from the "On Demand" channels is much better than it use to be.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/17407208
> 
> 
> CNN's Atlanta studios, including the main CNN newsroom, are now broadcasting in 16:9. While the video may be in a widescreen format, CNN is currently up converting the video to fit the screen while still using SD cameras. Via Inside Cable News:
> 
> 
> Following up on yesterday's HD news on CNN Atlanta, I can now finally, after missing it yesterday, confirm that Atlanta has gone HD. And my emailer is correct. They are using morphed SD video to reach 16:9 mode in the studio to make almost HD similar to what the O'Reilly Factor does. Does this mean CNN is saving the full HD cameras for the rumored new studio due to logistical reasons?
> 
> 
> Hopefully they are waiting to use the new cameras with the rumored new set November is quickly approaching, so we may see changes soon.



Got CNN newsroom on right now, new studio and it's in full HD. News stories however still have bars.


----------



## schandorsky

Lost the sound on Disney HD. No sound on TNT HD "Start Over" either.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17411096
> 
> 
> Got CNN newsroom on right now, new studio and it's in full HD. News stories however still have bars.



New studio? It might be the New York studio again. They were doing Rick Sanchez and the morning CNN Newsroom out of New York earlier in the week. Friday's Rick Sanchez was HD in Atlanta, same set.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17413907
> 
> 
> New studio? It might be the New York studio again. They were doing Rick Sanchez and the morning CNN Newsroom out of New York earlier in the week. Friday's Rick Sanchez was HD in Atlanta, same set.



Poor choice of words on my part. I meant they had a new set, not studio.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

I just tuned into HGTV HD and was offered Start Over. I gave it a whirl -- no audio problems. Very glad to see that they've built the infrastructure to extend Start Over to the 400's!


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/17416022
> 
> 
> I just tuned into HGTV HD and was offered Start Over. I gave it a whirl -- no audio problems. Very glad to see that they've built the infrastructure to extend Start Over to the 400's!



The only channel I'm having trouble with the "Start Over" feature and audio is TNT HD.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17417187
> 
> 
> The only channel I'm having trouble with the "Start Over" feature and audio is TNT HD.



Weird -- When I tune into TNT HD, 'Start Over' isn't being offered to me.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/17417274
> 
> 
> Weird -- When I tune into TNT HD, 'Start Over' isn't being offered to me.



It is only offered on certain programs on TNT HD and Disney HD and maybe some other channels.


----------



## nickdawg

I've never seen Start Over on a HD channel before. It must still be in testing phase if they are offering it on HGTV HD. That's the only reason I could see them wasting Start Over on a crap channel like that.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17417555
> 
> 
> I've never seen Start Over on a HD channel before. It must still be in testing phase if they are offering it on HGTV HD. That's the only reason I could see them wasting Start Over on a crap channel like that.



We have it on Food HD and H&G HD most of the time and TNT HD, TBS HD, and Disney HD only sometimes.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17417652
> 
> 
> We have it on Food HD and H&G HD most of the time and TNT HD, TBS HD, and Disney HD only sometimes.



It seems the only channels/programs offering start-over are the ones available via OnDemand. I wonder if there is a real correlation there or if its just a coincidence...?


I too was going through the OnDemand offerings yesterday (what better to do when the Browns are playing!?) and noticed it was much more responsive than in the past.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/17419925
> 
> 
> It seems the only channels/programs offering start-over are the ones available via OnDemand. I wonder if there is a real correlation there or if its just a coincidence...?
> 
> 
> I too was going through the OnDemand offerings yesterday (what better to do when the Browns are playing!?) and noticed it was much more responsive than in the past.



I think there is a correlation since the StartOver works using the same technology as OnDemand. Has to be. You probably won't find any of the big 4 (or 5 if you count CW) networks available on this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17420023
> 
> 
> I think there is a correlation since the StartOver works using the same technology as OnDemand. Has to be. You probably won't find any of the big 4 (or 5 if you count CW) networks available on this.



CBS and NBC have VOD content as well as USA.


It still looks like TWC is making some odd choices out of the VOD/Start Over pool.


Why? Do that many people actually watch the effing HGTV or Food channel?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17421698
> 
> 
> CBS and NBC have VOD content as well as USA.
> 
> 
> It still looks like TWC is making some odd choices out of the VOD/Start Over pool.
> 
> 
> Why? Do that many people actually watch the effing HGTV or Food channel?



I know you and I wouldn't watch those channels but there are plenty of people who do watch them.


----------



## shooter21198

Food Network HD and startover I just found more time to waste. I love watching Good Eats


----------



## hookbill

Wow TW sent me a birthday card. Well, it was a card. And on the card it says that my cable card rate is going up from 2.54 to 2.90.


Man can they nickle and dime or what?


----------



## salemtubes

I received a letter from TWC yesterday stating that they're raising my Internet service rate from $34.95 to $39.95 effective November 24th. It looks like it's time to check AT&T's rates for DSL service.


----------



## tprevett

I love the way they got to me sign up for their 2 year contract, only to send me a letter 6 months later letting me know of increases to my bill.. When confronted with breach of contract.. they let me out, and I then cancelled half of my services.. I am now a magicjack man with no pay channels and a single DVR.. Great business model TWC! I'm glad you have added all of the HD channels which North Ridgeville still doesen't have, and you can't tell me when we will have them... and the restart or whatever it's called... service.. good luck! 8mb cable.. I'm lucky to get 2mb. When confronted with the speed issue.. they do a speedtest to a TWC speedtest server on the same subnet which always tests at full speed.. TWC is a bunch of hacks! believe it or not i don't love complaining..... I'm just so sick of paying so much for so little... we NEED competition in Northeast Ohio!


----------



## tprevett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17402515
> 
> 
> Check out this link. http://www.com.ohio.gov/admn/vsa/
> 
> 
> Cable is regulated by the state. You would need to complain to them about your concerns.
> 
> 
> This regulation by the way was pushed through in a joint effort by your friends at AT&T and Time Warner Cable.




I have, and I have been in touch with AT&T.. they have no infrastructure in Lorain County, and have no intentions to put any in, so the only option other then TWC is the Local telcos.. centurytel, windstream, etc.. All of which suck. I have finally figured out a way to get good service... Move!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tprevett* /forum/post/17429817
> 
> 
> I have, and I have been in touch with AT&T.. they have no infrastructure in Lorain County, and have no intentions to put any in, so the only option other then TWC is the Local telcos.. centurytel, windstream, etc.. All of which suck. I have finally figured out a way to get good service... Move!



No, you could get Satellite. I would if I didn't have so many trees. Your internet, that's another story.


TW sucks. All cable companies do.


----------



## tjs70

I was suprised when I tuned to the Cavs game and I was offered Startover! Pretty cool.


----------



## hatewindowboxing

to everyone who says they can't and don't know what Nickdawg is talking about,


If you have a widescreen tv with digital turner, tune to WBNX-TV channel 55's HD station while they

are showing "The Office".


I think that's the type of thing he's talking about.


Make sure you're tuned to their HD channel instead of the digital SD chammel on cable.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17430646
> 
> 
> I was suprised when I tuned to the Cavs game and I was offered Startover! Pretty cool.



I was also suprised to see it. I didnt' try it but I am sure the cavs would have liked to hit that button and start over again starting at the 3rd quarter..


Was suprised to see it on a live event.


----------



## hookbill

Oh Gawd. nickdawg is drawing a fan base.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17432523
> 
> 
> Oh Gawd. nickdawg is drawing a fan base.



What's wrong with that? Letterbox is straight out of hell and I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't appreciate having half of their TV screen wasted with an improperly displayed picture.


----------



## ErieMarty

I just called to cancile the $5.00 extra HD Tier of channels that are now from 496 to 499..


I use to enjoy HDNet but now there is nothing I really watch on the 4 channels offered


When I called I spent about 3 or 4 mins fighting with the lady when I asked for those channels to be taken off.


First it wasn't on my bill...then it was...then she told me the channels I am talking about show up in the 470, 471, 472 and 473 area..I said no they been moved to the upper 490's..she said you are wrong I have no idea what you are talking about. I said I dont' have 471, 472 and 473..I told her I have the TV on and looking at the channels..


Then I asked..what channels am I getting for the $5.00 and she read off the ones from the upper 490's...and I told her ok..please take those off as I dont' want to pay for them anymore..


Ok bye.....


WOW..you would think they would have the latest list of channel locations


I was going to ask her about any new HD channels coming down the pike..but I didn't want to spend another 10mins on the phone ..with her saying, you been getting 5 or 6 channels every month since May.stop bitching..lol


sometime you get a call back after you deal with TW for a review of your service..


Normally I say good things..but this is one of the times I wouldn't...part her fault not having the correct infromation infront of her and another would be her attitude..


I can deal with wrong information..(garbage in..garbage out)..but when you are dealing with people you better be in a good mood all the time..


Oh well..just some TW Venting..


PS..any idea what coming in HD in November ??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17434982
> 
> 
> 
> PS..any idea what coming in HD in November ??



MSNBC ON 11/4 per Cathode Kid.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17435002
> 
> 
> MSNBC ON 11/4 per Cathode Kid.



Cathode Kid is a clairvoyant so it has to be true.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17435002
> 
> 
> MSNBC ON 11/4 per Cathode Kid.



if he is wrong you will see him saturday at his church going to confession and the priest might ban him for 2 weeks from posting on this forum


----------



## nickdawg

Yeah right, me and my three supermodel girlfriends will be watching MSNBC HD on TWC on November 4th!!










Here's what's *really* coming on November 4th:


The following changes are planned on or after November 4, 2009:


The Weather Channel HD will be added to standard HD.


The following channels will be added to HD with carriage level varying by area: WE HD and TV One HD.


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Basic Tier: Planet Green HD, IFC HD and Fuse HD.


The following channels will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Sports Tier: NHL Network HD, Tennis Channel HD and CBS College Sports HD.


Nothin but a bunch of crap.


----------



## ErieMarty

I think I posted this before but I wonder what HD channels are left out there to be added..


Other then MSNBC..are there really any quality HD channels missing.


As most know I am from Erie Pa Market and the big thing on the Erie forum..is that TW Offers Fox Ohio and Fox Pittsburgh..but when it comes to HD we only get Fox Ohio and just for Cavs game and people are upset that they can't add Fox Pitt in HD for Pirates and Pens games..(I am a cleveland fan but Fox Pitt should be availble in HD)


people have written e-mails to Mr Frye his reply was we are working on it. Someone called the offices of Fox Pitt and were told since erie has standard Fox Pitt then getting it in HD shouldn't be a problem.but still havent' gotten it.


So TW is screwing around people all over in the NE Ohio and NW PA Markets with HD options..


----------



## schandorsky

Hey Time Warner we are still waiting, not patiently, in Amherst!


----------



## GregF2

Second Amherst - what a ridiculous wait!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17435878
> 
> 
> Hey Time Warner we are still waiting, not patiently, in Amherst!


----------



## abcmatt

I haven't checked in the past few days to see if we have NBA TV but there was a story about a contract with cable companies, including TWC, to increase distribution. The article said it would be on TWC digital basic. Is it there yet?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17436507
> 
> 
> I haven't checked in the past few days to see if we have NBA TV but there was a story about a contract with cable companies, including TWC, to increase distribution. The article said it would be on TWC digital basic. Is it there yet?



Officially, from the NBA folks:
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/10/22/nbatv.release/ 



> Quote:
> Time Warner Cable, the second-largest cable operator in the U.S., will offer NBA TV to its customers on its Digital Basic tier.



This kind of stuff usually takes a while to filter to the local system level. No date is given in the article/release.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17435268
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid is a clairvoyant so it has to be true.



I have a crystal ball but it's an old NTSC model. And that vertical hold control is always fritzing out.


----------



## schandorsky

I woke up this morning and Time Warner had FSN HD on their regular channel plus it was on the channel ESPN2 HD is suppose to on, in other words no ESPN2 HD.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17435429
> 
> 
> I think I posted this before but I wonder what HD channels are left out there to be added..
> 
> 
> Other then MSNBC..are there really any quality HD channels missing..



I'm waiting for BBC-America HD....


----------



## ErieMarty

any reason it wasn't in HD ???


I turn on channel 436 and it wasn't in HD (at least in Erie Pa market)...


the Standard channel was in Full Screen but 436 had black on the sides..and even then the picture wasn't that good..


anyone else have this problem


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17439096
> 
> 
> any reason it wasn't in HD ???
> 
> 
> I turn on channel 436 and it wasn't in HD (at least in Erie Pa market)...
> 
> 
> the Standard channel was in Full Screen but 436 had black on the sides..and even then the picture wasn't that good..
> 
> 
> anyone else have this problem



They said in the beginning of game that FSN was having trouble with the HD broadcast. They also said all the Cavs games would be in HD.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17439337
> 
> 
> They said in the beginning of game that FSN was having trouble with the HD broadcast. They also said all the Cavs games would be in HD.




thanks..I didnt' put game on until middle of 2nd quarter...first suprised by the score..2nd that it wasn't in HD..


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17439395
> 
> 
> thanks..I didnt' put game on until middle of 2nd quarter...first suprised by the score..2nd that it wasn't in HD..



I did not tune in until the 3 quarter. They again mentioned the problems they had with the HD feed. BTW: In addition to not being in HD, I detected a subtle strobe effect (this was on the Dish Network feeds, both HD and SD).


----------



## abcmatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17441370
> 
> 
> I did not tune in until the 3 quarter. They again mentioned the problems they had with the HD feed. BTW: In addition to not being in HD, I detected a subtle strobe effect (this was on the Dish Network feeds, both HD and SD).



By strobe do you mean like a film? I had that too on TWC SD. I couldn't stand the way it looked on the main camera but when they cut to Jeff Phelps or the announcers it looked fine.


----------



## scnrfrq

Is anyone with an 8300HD box able to see the Start Over prompts? I'm not able to, even though others in my area do see the prompts.


----------



## nickdawg

Did 41 (WKBN) ever finish their upgrade? Are they currently at full power? I still cannot get enough of a signal to lock it in, but the bar is showing a higher signal than it used to.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17444510
> 
> 
> Is anyone with an 8300HD box able to see the Start Over prompts? I'm not able to, even though others in my area do see the prompts.



I have an 8300HDC box, and I saw the prompt a few days ago on TNTHD (but I didn't try to use the feature).


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/17445308
> 
> 
> I have an 8300HDC box, and I saw the prompt a few days ago on TNTHD (but I didn't try to use the feature).



I'm beginning to think the feature doesn't work on the 8300HD or 4250 boxes, but I can't confirm it so far.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17445341
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to think the feature doesn't work on the 8300HD or 4250 boxes, but I can't confirm it so far.



I think it's been confirmed to work with 4250 boxes, however I'm not certain about 8300HD. I'm too lazy to check.


----------



## Bus

I have TW cable,channel3 used to be 84 QAM now its gone I can't find it any were?


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/17445308
> 
> 
> I have an 8300HDC box, and I saw the prompt a few days ago on TNTHD (but I didn't try to use the feature).



I just got it to work only on my 4250 box, and only for TBS HD. It doesn't work on my 8300HD box...


----------



## hookbill

Why should it matter what box you have? I can't see any reason that a 4250 would be able to do something that an 8300 can't.


I never look at mine so I don't know. I'm on my way over there, maybe I'll see if I can find anything with Start Over on it.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bus* /forum/post/17445528
> 
> 
> I have TW cable,channel3 used to be 84 QAM now its gone I can't find it any were?



They moved NBC HD and UPN HD to the 112 QAM. CBS was moved from 84 QAM to 80 QAM. At least that's what we have in Amherst.


On my Toshiba TV:


80.1 Ohio

80.2 CBS

80.3 WVIZ

80.4 World

88.2 TBS

88.5 FS Ohio

100.10 Game

104.8 3 Weather

104.9 First Alert Weather

110.1 Fox

110.2 ABC

116.1 CW

112.1 NBC

112.2 UPN


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17446071
> 
> 
> Why should it matter what box you have? I can't see any reason that a 4250 would be able to do something that an 8300 can't.
> 
> 
> I never look at mine so I don't know. I'm on my way over there, maybe I'll see if I can find anything with Start Over on it.



The 8300HD and the 4250HDC are two entirely different animals. Along with the cable card/OCAP stuff, they run two different software programs. The 8300HD runs MDN and the 4250HDC runs ODN. There are small differences in appearance and features between MDN and ODN. Generally I've found ODN to be far superior to MDN in terms of speed and currently available features. Also since ODN is the future(since all new boxes are OCAP) and OCAP is supposed to make interactive/other features easier, that's probably why the OCAP box has Start Over before the older boxes. I haven't seen an MDN box in a long time, probably will never see one again,





















, so I can't comment on how it is here.


You know my opinion: leave the outdated equipment behind in the dust!! And since a majority of the MDN boxes are either those godawful SA8000 boxes that sucked 6 years ago with SARA or those Pioneer boxes that are almost in the double digits age-wise, I can't imagine these new features like Start Over working well(because VOD never worked "right" with the Pioneer MDN boxes).


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17435429
> 
> 
> I think I posted this before but I wonder what HD channels are left out there to be added..
> 
> 
> Other then MSNBC..are there really any quality HD channels missing...




Well I've been really been waiting for Weather Channel HD, glad to see it coming.










And as a Doctor Who and Torchwood fan I'd like to see BBC America HD. But other than that, no I can't think of any _QUALITY_ HD channels we're missing.


But again, it boils down to personal preference.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17447033
> 
> 
> The 8300HD and the 4250HDC are two entirely different animals. Along with the cable card/OCAP stuff, they run two different software programs. The 8300HD runs MDN and the 4250HDC runs ODN. There are small differences in appearance and features between MDN and ODN. Generally I've found ODN to be far superior to MDN in terms of speed and currently available features. Also since ODN is the future(since all new boxes are OCAP) and OCAP is supposed to make interactive/other features easier, that's probably why the OCAP box has Start Over before the older boxes. I haven't seen an MDN box in a long time, probably will never see one again,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , so I can't comment on how it is here.
> 
> 
> You know my opinion: leave the outdated equipment behind in the dust!! And since a majority of the MDN boxes are either those godawful SA8000 boxes that sucked 6 years ago with SARA or those Pioneer boxes that are almost in the double digits age-wise, I can't imagine these new features like Start Over working well(because VOD never worked "right" with the Pioneer MDN boxes).



Main reason I still use the 8300HD boxes is that the HDC boxes don't support an external hard drive. I find that very necesssary in order to store all the HD shows I save on the DVR.


----------



## Bus

Thank you Schandorsky!


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bus* /forum/post/17447821
> 
> 
> Thank you Schandorsky!



You're welcome


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17447788
> 
> 
> Main reason I still use the 8300HD boxes is that the HDC boxes don't support an external hard drive. I find that very necesssary in order to store all the HD shows I save on the DVR.



You mean yours works with a eSATA? Mine constantly had partial recordings with that thing. I went through 3 of them. That's the reason why I got TiVo's. And of course being able to store on my Mac 1 TB hard drive is a plus.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17446338
> 
> 
> They moved NBC HD and UPN HD to the 112 QAM. CBS was moved from 84 QAM to 80 QAM. At least that's what we have in Amherst.
> 
> 
> On my Toshiba TV:
> 
> 
> 80.1 Ohio
> 
> 80.2 CBS
> 
> 80.3 WVIZ
> 
> 80.4 World
> 
> 88.2 TBS
> 
> 88.5 FS Ohio
> 
> 100.10 Game
> 
> 104.8 3 Weather
> 
> 104.9 First Alert Weather
> 
> 110.1 Fox
> 
> 110.2 ABC
> 
> 116.1 CW
> 
> 112.1 NBC
> 
> 112.2 UPN



Strange. Where were they before? Were they on their usual OTA positions? ie: 3.1,3.2,19.1,19.2,etc?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17447886
> 
> 
> You mean yours works with a eSATA? Mine constantly had partial recordings with that thing. I went through 3 of them. That's the reason why I got TiVo's. And of course being able to store on my Mac 1 TB hard drive is a plus.



I don't know. I do know the HDC boxes have been reported to have issues with the eSATA. It's one of the persistent problems that has never been addressed with the various updates of Navigator. But there is no reason for it to be addressed because eSATA isn't one of TWC's offered features. The fact that the "jack" even works at all is surprising.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17447926
> 
> 
> Strange. Where were they before? Were they on their usual OTA positions? ie: 3.1,3.2,19.1,19.2,etc?



No we never had them like that in Amherst from Time Warner Cable. We always had to do a scan with our TV's digital QAM tuner. We would get close to 600 channels with only a handful with picture and sound, (those that I posted) plus the analog channels. Time Warner makes it very difficult to use their product without their cable boxes.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17447886
> 
> 
> You mean yours works with a eSATA? Mine constantly had partial recordings with that thing. I went through 3 of them. That's the reason why I got TiVo's. And of course being able to store on my Mac 1 TB hard drive is a plus.



I have 2 8300HD boxes and I have external drives hooked up with eSATA on both. They work flawlessly. One drive is 1TB and holds a ton of HD shows. I couldn't operate without it! I did try HDC boxes with Navigator and they do not support the external drives. Here's an AVS forum discussion just on external drives:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...16559&page=261


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17442434
> 
> 
> By strobe do you mean like a film? I had that too on TWC SD. I couldn't stand the way it looked on the main camera but when they cut to Jeff Phelps or the announcers it looked fine.



Yes, it was only on the wide shot. It was noticeable when the ball was being dribbled. This was subtle, I've see worse.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17451294
> 
> 
> Yes, it was only on the wide shot. It was noticeable when the ball was being dribbled. This was subtle, I've see worse.



I've seen strobing effects on cameras that are running high shutter rates. This is generally done so that slo-mo playback will look cleaner. This might explain why the announcer shots looked cleaner.


----------



## nickdawg

Would the about to be unemployed douchebag at WJW FOX TV who is showing FOX latenight programming in stretchovision please fix it? Thank you.


----------



## TES77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17446338
> 
> 
> They moved NBC HD and UPN HD to the 112 QAM. CBS was moved from 84 QAM to 80 QAM. At least that's what we have in Amherst.
> 
> 
> On my Toshiba TV:
> 
> 
> 80.1 Ohio
> 
> 80.2 CBS
> 
> 80.3 WVIZ
> 
> 80.4 World
> 
> 88.2 TBS
> 
> 88.5 FS Ohio
> 
> 100.10 Game
> 
> 104.8 3 Weather
> 
> 104.9 First Alert Weather
> 
> 110.1 Fox
> 
> 110.2 ABC
> 
> 116.1 CW
> 
> 112.1 NBC
> 
> 112.2 UPN



first timer here... been reading thru this thread and appreciate all of the info. i just bought a new hdtv and want to avoid getting nailed for another hd cablebox from TW. the tv has a built-in QAM tuner and i ran the scan which gave about 75 analog channels and 400-500 digital channels. how can i get a list of which hd channels are available and how do you get rid of the hundreds of blank hd channels that the scanner finds? also wondering if i should get rid of my hd cable box and just use the QAM tuner to save some money.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17461206
> 
> 
> first timer here... been reading thru this thread and appreciate all of the info. i just bought a new hdtv and want to avoid getting nailed for another hd cablebox from TW. the tv has a built-in QAM tuner and i ran the scan which gave about 75 analog channels and 400-500 digital channels. how can i get a list of which hd channels are available and how do you get rid of the hundreds of blank hd channels that the scanner finds? also wondering if i should get rid of my hd cable box and just use the QAM tuner to save some money.



TES77:


The "400-500" digital channels..is usually bogus..The Qam Tuner will only show channels available in your local area..Mostly only Local HD..Sometimes some cable channels will slip in but usually for short periods of time..If you are looking to save money on a cable box..Unless you can live without HD versions of USA, TNT, etc..Its not gonna happen..Welcome to the forums..


----------



## TES77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/17461261
> 
> 
> TES77:
> 
> 
> The "400-500" digital channels..is usually bogus..The Qam Tuner will only show channels available in your local area..Mostly only Local HD..Sometimes some cable channels will slip in but usually for short periods of time..If you are looking to save money on a cable box..Unless you can live without HD versions of USA, TNT, etc..Its not gonna happen..Welcome to the forums..



thanks for the quick reply. i just bought a new vizio lcd for the spare room. i ran the coax cable right into the back of the tv and did the channel scan. i just hate that you have to fish through everything to find out what channels you "really" have. i found cbs, abc, nbc, fox, tbs, cw, wviz, and a couple million music channels. do their locations change? how can i get rid of all those "blank" digital channels? will this end up as a better alternative to the cable box?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17461359
> 
> 
> thanks for the quick reply. i just bought a new vizio lcd for the spare room. i ran the coax cable right into the back of the tv and did the channel scan. i just hate that you have to fish through everything to find out what channels you "really" have. i found cbs, abc, nbc, fox, tbs, cw, wviz, and a couple million music channels. do their locations change? how can i get rid of all those "blank" digital channels? will this end up as a better alternative to the cable box?



Dude. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. The only way you can survive is to get the cable box.


Did you read about SDV? That totally limits the number of channels you can get via qam. You have to get a box. Plus they do move the QAM channels around and it will just frustrate the crap out of you.


I'm all in favor of avoiding paying charges but I would have to say you are really cheating yourself out of great HD by not getting a box.


----------



## schandorsky

Hey finally we have SDV in Amherst. We have a few of the new HD channels showing up on channels 1600 thru 1618 and the diagnostics on my cable box shows SDV is up and running.


----------



## Tim Lones

I have to agree with Hookbill on this..If you want the full HD effect, a Box is the way to go..


Here's what I am getting on QAM currently..RCA 14 In. digital tv (Not HD) (Canton Area)


3-1 WKYC NBC

3-2 Weather Plus

5-1 WEWS ABC

8-1 WJW FOX

19-1 WOIO CBS

19-2 WOIO Weather

43-1 WUAB MyTV

43-2 This TV

49-1 WEAO PBS

49-2 Fusion (Ohio Channel/ARTS/Local shows)

49-3 Mhz Worldview

78-1 WVIZ-25

78-2 WVIZ-Ohio Channel

78-3 WBNX-55 CW

78-4 WVIZ World

78-5 WVIZ Create

94-29 Lake High School TV

94-31 Manchester/New Franklin/Coventry Twp. Bulletin Board

94-32 Green Township Bulletin Board

109-1 WRLM-HD(Formerly WOAC-Main Channel is on 13 analog)

122-315 TWC On Demand Barker Channel

123-14 WIVM-52

124-3 TWC Movies On Demand Barker Channel

124-14 TWC HD Movies on Demand Barker Channel


Not that much really though. As I said earlier in the thread, they do have occassional cable channel previews in the mix..


----------



## nickdawg

I *always* recommend a cable box. Always. With the level of service we have now, you're seriously cheating yourself if you don't have a HD cable box connected to your HDTV. Analog TV is bad enough, it looks even worse on a HDTV set. Hence the reason I'm awaiting for some more basic tier channels to go HD.


----------



## nickdawg

Anyone else noticing anything effed up with the program guide and Navigator? Ever few days all the info in the guide is messed up. The wrong shows are listed on the wrong channel and time. And last night I had that damn 8300 tell me that "the program guide is currently unavailable". WTF? Ever since that late night navigator "upgrade" I commented on awhile back I noticed the box has been acting worse. Somewhere between 3.1.1_3 and 3.1.3_2 they messed something up.


And they still haven't added a key word search or a way to change the aspect ratio yet.


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17461359
> 
> 
> thanks for the quick reply. i just bought a new vizio lcd for the spare room. i ran the coax cable right into the back of the tv and did the channel scan. i just hate that you have to fish through everything to find out what channels you "really" have. i found cbs, abc, nbc, fox, tbs, cw, wviz, and a couple million music channels. do their locations change? how can i get rid of all those "blank" digital channels? will this end up as a better alternative to the cable box?



It really depends on your priorities. If you are content with the local channels only in HI-def and the other channels in analog then the cable box is a waste of money. However, if it is important to you to see the HD equivalent of expanded tier channels, then the box would be necessary and the way to go.

It all depends on your viewing interests.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/17463619
> 
> 
> It really depends on your priorities. If you are content with the local channels only in HI-def and the other channels in analog then the cable box is a waste of money. However, if it is important to you to see the HD equivalent of expanded tier channels, then the box would be necessary and the way to go.
> 
> It all depends on your viewing interests.



Yep. Precisely. Though it is weird that your tv is showing every QAM and not what is available. I guess all are made different though. Mine will only tag the QAMs it can actually view rather than the whole mess. It does catch some blank/encrypted channels but not many.


----------



## GregF2

Good catch, I would not even have noticed that Amherst got some new HD's if you not have posted that. I had heard that this would be the week, so maybe the source is right.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17462231
> 
> 
> Hey finally we have SDV in Amherst. We have a few of the new HD channels showing up on channels 1600 thru 1618 and the diagnostics on my cable box shows SDV is up and running.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/17464445
> 
> 
> Good catch, I would not even have noticed that Amherst got some new HD's if you not have posted that. I had heard that this would be the week, so maybe the source is right.



They also added a few in the 1800's.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17464731
> 
> 
> They also added a few in the 1800's.



I predict you'll be fully on board on Wednesday.


----------



## GregF2

Thanks again and I impressed that we are finally getting all of those channels and that you found them. I imagine some time this week, they will be assigned to where we can see them on the guide.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17464731
> 
> 
> They also added a few in the 1800's.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

Anyone else notice that at the end of a Start Over session, the time's off by an hour? I guess they forgot that DST ended yesterday.


----------



## shooter21198

browsing the test channels and found this


1700 Planet Green HD

1701 Weather HD

1702 Team HD

1703 WE HD

1704 One HD
*1705 G4 HD

1706 BBC-America HD

1707 MSNBC HD*


----------



## nickdawg

WHAT???? MSNBC??? No... BBC America? All I remember on the November 4 list were a bunch of crappy channels.










All I see on those channels is "not available" and "MSBCD" caused my TV to reboot.


----------



## shooter21198

G4, BBC, and MSNBC froze my box so you aren't the only person


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17466984
> 
> 
> WHAT???? MSNBC??? No... BBC America? All I remember on the November 4 list were a bunch of crappy channels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I see on those channels is "not available" and "MSBCD" caused my TV to reboot.



I told you numb nutz that we were going to get MSNBCHD. Remember when Cathode Kid says it will happen, it will happen.


----------



## TES77

just wanna say thanks to all the replies i got. i am gonna keep my hd box from TW and just hope that we keep getting more hd channels. (spike and fx would be great)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17467150
> 
> 
> just wanna say thanks to all the replies i got. i am gonna keep my hd box from TW and just hope that we keep getting more hd channels. (spike and fx would be great)



We already get FXHD. We are waiting on Spike.


----------



## ErieMarty

I had to Manually type in those channels in the 1700 series...didn't get a picture..said try again later..


Sounds like my normal HD Channels..please try again later...lol


----------



## tprevett

FYI if you go to www.silicondust.com click on resources and then TV channels, put in your zipcode, it will spit out a list of all of the QAM channels in your cable system. It has the real qam channel, so you can manually put the 10 or so channels which work in (I have a media center with 4 tuners which I do this with). It will also spit out all of the OTA 8vsb channels. select whether you want cable or ota from the pulldown on top..


Saves so much time by not having to filter through 600 channels to find the 10 that work. It also lists the network so that you don't have to figure that out either.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17447926
> 
> 
> Strange. Where were they before? Were they on their usual OTA positions? ie: 3.1,3.2,19.1,19.2,etc?


----------



## hookbill

It's 5:10 pm. Why is Oprah still on?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17469880
> 
> 
> It's 5:10 pm. Why is Oprah still on?



Because she's too big to fit in the 4pm hour?


----------



## abcmatt

I get QAM through my tv and get the HD locals. I had Starz for a little bit but it's gone now. WBNX-HD used to be on 102-1 but I rescanned and it's now at 55-1. In the rescan I also got This TV but it's at 111-7 instead of 43-2. I used to have the Music Choice channels but they're gone too. I'm pretty sure I get WAX(35) too. When I watch WEWS-HD it is always breaking up during sports, Dancing with the Stars and Wipeout (not scripted primetime though) but WJW-HD breaks up occasionally (once or twice a game) and WOIO-HD and WKYC-HD never break up. Is the problem because of QAM and would WEWS-HD be fixed with a cable box?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17470123
> 
> 
> I get QAM through my tv and get the HD locals. I had Starz for a little bit but it's gone now. WBNX-HD used to be on 102-1 but I rescanned and it's now at 55-1. In the rescan I also got This TV but it's at 111-7 instead of 43-2. I used to have the Music Choice channels but they're gone too. I'm pretty sure I get WAX(35) too. When I watch WEWS-HD it is always breaking up during sports, Dancing with the Stars and Wipeout (not scripted primetime though) but WJW-HD breaks up occasionally (once or twice a game) and WOIO-HD and WKYC-HD never break up. Is the problem because of QAM and would WEWS-HD be fixed with a cable box?



Nobody can definitively tell you why you see pixelation/break ups. It could be the network. It could be sunspots. It might be TW but to be honest I think TW would be the last thing I would look at unless the channel was one of the SDV channels. The locals are not SDV.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17466700
> 
> 
> browsing the test channels and found this
> 
> 
> 1700 Planet Green HD
> 
> 1701 Weather HD
> 
> 1702 Team HD
> 
> 1703 WE HD
> 
> 1704 One HD
> *1705 G4 HD
> 
> 1706 BBC-America HD
> 
> 1707 MSNBC HD*



I did some browsing myself and hit the HD jackpot. Here in the North Ridgeville/Elyria area (old Comcast) we are still waiting for SDV. I was told by a lead tech that we will be the last TWC area to get it. There waiting for all the old Moto boxes to get switched out.


I tried punching in manually up in the ch 1700 area (didn't know there was any channels hideing up there) and found 22 hd channels waiting in the wings. They must be all the HD we don't get while waiting for SDV. These channels start at ch 1600 and go to ch 1813. Bravo, CNBC,

TLC, Anamal Planet, Family, ESPN news, MLB, Golf, Nat Geo, Science, FX, CNN, Fox News, Discovery, Fox Movie, Toon, Biog, TMC, Hallmark, Fox Business News, Outdoor, and Disney XD, all HD. For any of you that don't any or all of these channels, this will be a preview of the coming HD.

Remember, these channels won't show up in the guide until we get SDV. Then they will reassigned to there new home in the 400's, with full show times and discriptions.


Enjoy,

Ben Music


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17470181
> 
> 
> I did some browsing myself and hit the HD jackpot. Here in the North Ridgeville/Elyria area (old Comcast) we are still waiting for SDV. I was told by a lead tech that we will be the last TWC area to get it. There waiting for all the old Moto boxes to get switched out.
> 
> 
> I tried punching in manually up in the ch 1700 area (didn't know there was any channels hideing up there) and found 22 hd channels waiting in the wings. They must be all the HD we don't get while waiting for SDV. These channels start at ch 1600 and go to ch 1813. Bravo, CNBC,
> 
> TLC, Anamal Planet, Family, ESPN news, MLB, Golf, Nat Geo, Science, FX, CNN, Fox News, Discovery, Fox Movie, Toon, Biog, TMC, Hallmark, Fox Business News, Outdoor, and Disney XD, all HD. For any of you that don't any or all of these channels, this will be a preview of the coming HD.
> 
> Remember, these channels won't show up in the guide until we get SDV. Then they will reassigned to there new home in the 400's, with full show times and discriptions.
> 
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> Ben Music



If you are getting those channels you do have SDV activated in your area or you would not be receiving them. There is not enough bandwidth for all these HD channels without it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17467080
> 
> 
> I told you numb nutz that we were going to get MSNBCHD. Remember when Cathode Kid says it will happen, it will happen.



He got lucky this time. I learned from you to never believe what TWC says. I sure hope Cathode Kid learns not to be so trusting of those idiots at TWC. He really could've set us up for disappointment here.


Speaking of numb nutz, how about we turn the FXCING CHANNELS ON NOW??? I'd like to watch "MSBCD" tonight as there's going to buttloads of Keith, Rachel and Chris Matthews coverage on MSNBC tonight.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17470262
> 
> 
> He got lucky this time. I learned from you to never believe what TWC says. I sure hope Cathode Kid learns not to be so trusting of those idiots at TWC. He really could've set us up for disappointment here.
> 
> 
> Speaking of numb nutz, how about we turn the FXCING CHANNELS ON NOW??? I'd like to watch "MSBCD" tonight as there's going to buttloads of Keith, Rachel and Chris Matthews coverage on MSNBC tonight.



You can. It's just not in HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17470181
> 
> 
> I did some browsing myself and hit the HD jackpot. Here in the North Ridgeville/Elyria area (old Comcast) we are still waiting for SDV. I was told by a lead tech that we will be the last TWC area to get it. There waiting for all the old Moto boxes to get switched out.
> 
> 
> I tried punching in manually up in the ch 1700 area (didn't know there was any channels hideing up there) and found 22 hd channels waiting in the wings. They must be all the HD we don't get while waiting for SDV. These channels start at ch 1600 and go to ch 1813. Bravo, CNBC,
> 
> TLC, Anamal Planet, Family, ESPN news, MLB, Golf, Nat Geo, Science, FX, CNN, Fox News, Discovery, Fox Movie, Toon, Biog, TMC, Hallmark, Fox Business News, Outdoor, and Disney XD, all HD. For any of you that don't any or all of these channels, this will be a preview of the coming HD.
> 
> Remember, these channels won't show up in the guide until we get SDV. Then they will reassigned to there new home in the 400's, with full show times and discriptions.
> 
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> Ben Music



Yeah, you got SDV now Ben. Time to get that tuner adapter going.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17470262
> 
> 
> He got lucky this time. I learned from you to never believe what TWC says. I sure hope Cathode Kid learns not to be so trusting of those idiots at TWC. He really could've set us up for disappointment here.
> 
> 
> Speaking of numb nutz, how about we turn the FXCING CHANNELS ON NOW??? I'd like to watch "MSBCD" tonight as there's going to buttloads of Keith, Rachel and Chris Matthews coverage on MSNBC tonight.



that seems to fit....Keith...Chris and buttload...


----------



## nickdawg

Is anybody seeing the new channels? Why do they add the channels if they're not turned on? Why tease us?


----------



## hookbill

Ok here's what you don't know. TW has a think tank called project nickdawg and their sole purpose is to come up with things to light your fuse. Mwahhaha.


----------



## nickdawg

OK, I have another question: what happened to FUSE HD? I was actually looking forward to that channel. Of course I'd rather have MSNBC than FUSE, that's no contest at all. But why do we have shti like WE, the green channel and the weather channel and whateverthefugg "ONE TV" is, but not FUSE? Also, they're starting to add garbage like another "team" channel? Don't we already have one of those, I remember Hook saying something about the baseball in HD. Why do we need another PPV Channel? What next? Is TWC going to start adding the multicast channels of HBO and Showtime? I hope not.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17470123
> 
> 
> I get QAM through my tv and get the HD locals. I had Starz for a little bit but it's gone now. WBNX-HD used to be on 102-1 but I rescanned and it's now at 55-1. In the rescan I also got This TV but it's at 111-7 instead of 43-2. I used to have the Music Choice channels but they're gone too. I'm pretty sure I get WAX(35) too. When I watch WEWS-HD it is always breaking up during sports, Dancing with the Stars and Wipeout (not scripted primetime though) but WJW-HD breaks up occasionally (once or twice a game) and WOIO-HD and WKYC-HD never break up. Is the problem because of QAM and would WEWS-HD be fixed with a cable box?



Matt, look for your tv set's diagnostic menus, particularly signal strength and SNR/BER. Tune to an HD channel that works well and note the levels. Then tune to a channel that breaks up and note the levels again. You might be seeing a signal that's too low or too high on that channel. It's also possible that you're receiving ingress on that channel. Make sure you're using good quality cable with "digi-con" style connectors on it, not the junk that usually comes with the set. It can be surprising how much of an impact a poor cable can have on digital channels.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17470316
> 
> 
> Yeah, you got SDV now Ben. Time to get that tuner adapter going.



Hook, what I don't understand is, if we now have SDV, why are these channels in the 1600 to 1813 with no guide listings or program info? Why are they not in the 400's with the rest of the HD channels with channel numbers and full program guide info and times that the different shows air?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17472477
> 
> 
> Hook, what I don't understand is, if we now have SDV, why are these channels in the 1600 to 1813 with no guide listings or program info? Why are they not in the 400's with the rest of the HD channels with channel numbers and full program guide info and times that the different shows air?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



That's the area where they test new channels. Once they come out if testing you will find them in the. 400-500 range. That should happen today.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17472568
> 
> 
> That's the area where they test new channels. Once they come out if testing you will find them in the. 400-500 range. That should happen today.



It should happen today. It hasn't happened yet.


----------



## hookbill

It's still early.


----------



## nickdawg

If it's not on by tonight, I think it's time to play the contact card, if you know what I mean.


----------



## ErieMarty

that these new HD stations suppose to show up at ??


----------



## tjs70

There has been a full SDV outage in Cleveland Proper since the middle of last night. Come on Time Warner!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17474309
> 
> 
> There has been a full SDV outage in Cleveland Proper since the middle of last night. Come on Time Warner!!!



If you haven't already, then call it in to TW. You'd be surprised at how they don't know what is going on.


----------



## tjs70

Thanks Hook. Already did to my main Technical Contact at Lakeside. I only hope that they are bringing up the new channels







Hopefully that is why it is down. Doubt it but I can only hope


----------



## nickdawg

I'm ready to call this horse manure company and cancel my service. When they ask why I will say it's because I can't watch MSNBC HD.


Let this be a lesson, never trust ANYTHING said by ANYONE about Time Warner Cable.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17474343
> 
> 
> If you haven't already, then call it in to TW. You'd be surprised at how they don't know what is going on.



I wouldn't be surprised. It seems they forgot what today is.


----------



## tjs70

Existing Channels are back! But no new ones.


----------



## schandorsky

Is it true that the same people that run the Cleveland Browns also run Time Warner Cable?


----------



## tprevett

So I mistakenly put in 1600 as a channel, and woa.. I found hdtv.. all the way up to 1623 or 1624. I also found that between 1801 and 1813 or so are more hd channels.. ALL OF THE CHANNELS everybody else has gotten.. hiding.. you have to manually put in the channel number, but you will see.. fox news hd cnn hd bravo hd abc family hd disney xd Natinal Geo HD Fox Movie HD... and so much more










Also if you tune to channel 1612, you get some sort of install channel, where you can install something from mysto.. i don't know what asks for an installer number and a billing number or something.. and then tries to connect to the headend.. but fails.. If these channels are already there, why the hell don't they just activate them?






















bl;e

Sorry, just noticed the post on the previous page... But check out the install channel 1612 and let us know if anybody is able to get anything installed.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tprevett* /forum/post/17476812
> 
> 
> So I mistakenly put in 1600 as a channel, and woa.. I found hdtv.. all the way up to 1623 or 1624. I also found that between 1801 and 1813 or so are more hd channels.. ALL OF THE CHANNELS everybody else has gotten.. hiding.. you have to manually put in the channel number, but you will see.. fox news hd cnn hd bravo hd abc family hd disney xd Natinal Geo HD Fox Movie HD... and so much more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you tune to channel 1612, you get some sort of install channel, where you can install something from mysto.. i don't know what asks for an installer number and a billing number or something.. and then tries to connect to the headend.. but fails.. If these channels are already there, why the hell don't they just activate them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bl;e
> 
> Sorry, just noticed the post on the previous page... But check out the install channel 1612 and let us know if anybody is able to get anything installed.



I just wish they would get this changeover done with, because we are still short a dozen HD channels


----------



## TES77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tprevett* /forum/post/17476812
> 
> 
> So I mistakenly put in 1600 as a channel, and woa.. I found hdtv.. all the way up to 1623 or 1624. I also found that between 1801 and 1813 or so are more hd channels.. ALL OF THE CHANNELS everybody else has gotten.. hiding.. you have to manually put in the channel number, but you will see.. fox news hd cnn hd bravo hd abc family hd disney xd Natinal Geo HD Fox Movie HD... and so much more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if you tune to channel 1612, you get some sort of install channel, where you can install something from mysto.. i don't know what asks for an installer number and a billing number or something.. and then tries to connect to the headend.. but fails.. If these channels are already there, why the hell don't they just activate them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bl;e
> 
> Sorry, just noticed the post on the previous page... But check out the install channel 1612 and let us know if anybody is able to get anything installed.



what's up everyone. i'm in the elyria/north ridgeville area and i did find a few new hd channels. very nice! dumb question-what is SDV and when will these hidden channels be listed in the guide? thanks fellas.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17477812
> 
> 
> what's up everyone. i'm in the elyria/north ridgeville area and i did find a few new hd channels. very nice! dumb question-what is SDV and when will these hidden channels be listed in the guide? thanks fellas.



SDV = Switched Digital Video. It's the system used to deliver all these new HD channels. It works similar to video on demand where not every channel is a physical channel taking up bandwidth all the time, the channel is "requested" when it is tuned.


I looked at channel 1612, it's a Mystro App that tells the MAC Address, RF IP, Network Connection, RDC Power, FDC Power, OD Service Group, Stack Version, ODN version and Cable Card Version. It looks similar to the channel that used to be on Passport that had channel/network/diagnostic information. Since it says "press Select to send" maybe that sent data will be able to help correct "issues" sooner. One can only hope.


----------



## nickdawg

455 Planet Green HD

482 G4 HD

487 MSNBC HD

489 TWC HD

490 BBC America HD

491 WE HD

492 TV One HD

760 TEAM HD


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17479081
> 
> 
> 455 Planet Green HD
> 
> 482 G4 HD
> 
> 487 MSNBC HD
> 
> 489 TWC HD
> 
> 490 BBC America HD
> 
> 491 WE HD
> 
> 492 TV One HD
> 
> 760 TEAM HD



Great news!.


I'll check my lineup in Mentor when I get home this evening.


Ray


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17479081
> 
> 
> 455 Planet Green HD
> 
> 482 G4 HD
> 
> 487 MSNBC HD
> 
> 489 TWC HD
> 
> 490 BBC America HD
> 
> 491 WE HD
> 
> 492 TV One HD
> 
> 760 TEAM HD



We are still waiting in Amherst (Elyria area) for Time Warner to complete the changeover to SDV, hopefully we will get these channels too and the other dozen or so we are not getting yet.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17479081
> 
> 
> 455 Planet Green HD
> 
> 482 G4 HD
> 
> 487 MSNBC HD
> 
> 489 TWC HD
> 
> 490 BBC America HD
> 
> 491 WE HD
> 
> 492 TV One HD
> 
> 760 TEAM HD



Not here in Bainbridge. 491 is Still Showtime HD and 490 is still HBO HD. I got "channel not available" messages on the remainder of the channels.


No changes made to TiVo's guide either.


Edit: Just checked SA 8300 no changes there and guide info is still the same. Maybe they are doing this slowly.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17479081
> 
> 
> 455 Planet Green HD
> 
> 482 G4 HD
> 
> 487 MSNBC HD
> 
> 489 TWC HD
> 
> 490 BBC America HD
> 
> 491 WE HD
> 
> 492 TV One HD
> 
> 760 TEAM HD



for these new channels....


----------



## ErieMarty

I found it on HBO last night....


I didn't try it as I was watching the best team money can buy win another World Series but flipped over to see what was on HBO last night...between innnings


----------



## nickdawg

As of 10AM those channels are not on the positions I listed above. But the 1700-1707 channels are all active.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17480085
> 
> 
> As of 10AM those channels are not on the positions I listed above. But the 1700-1707 channels are all active.



Why would the move Showtime, HBO, and Cinemax? Something isn't right.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17480402
> 
> 
> Why would the move Showtime, HBO, and Cinemax? Something isn't right.



They all have channel numbers up in the 600s by their other channels. I'm not sure why they were duplicated in the 400s to begin with.


----------



## berenga

Nothing in Chagrin Falls yet for the channels mentioned.


Hail to the Yankees on their 27th title!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/17481566
> 
> 
> Nothing in Chagrin Falls yet for the channels mentioned.
> 
> 
> Hail to the Yankees on their 27th title!



Yankees suck. They will always suck. Down with the evil empire.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17481589
> 
> 
> Yankees suck. They will always suck. Down with the evil empire.




And there is nothing worse than a non-New Yorker Yankee fan!


----------



## nickdawg

Two big victories for New York:


The most expensive team won the World Series and the most expensive mayor won the election.


Yippee!!


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17479081
> 
> 
> 455 Planet Green HD
> 
> 482 G4 HD
> 
> 487 MSNBC HD
> 
> 489 TWC HD
> 
> 490 BBC America HD
> 
> 491 WE HD
> 
> 492 TV One HD
> 
> 760 TEAM HD



Where is NHL Network HD, which was one of the originally announced Nov. 4 additions?


----------



## berenga




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17481589
> 
> 
> Yankees suck. They will always suck. Down with the evil empire.



You're just sour grapes because your LA Dodgers were pitiful and pathetic in the post season. Talk about suck and choke. Oh well, back to HD talk


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *berenga* /forum/post/17483025
> 
> 
> You're just sour grapes because your LA Dodgers were pitiful and pathetic in the post season. Talk about suck and choke. Oh well, back to HD talk










Sore Winner.










Now we can go back to HD talk. You started it you don't get to finish.


----------



## nickdawg

MSNBC HD is up and running on 1707!!

















Back to HD...


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17479081
> 
> 
> 455 Planet Green HD
> 
> 482 G4 HD
> 
> 487 MSNBC HD
> 
> 489 TWC HD
> 
> 490 BBC America HD
> 
> 491 WE HD
> 
> 492 TV One HD
> 
> 760 TEAM HD



No New Channels from the Lakeside Headend yet


----------



## hookbill

Did anybody see these channels on these stations besides nickdawg? Not that I'm discrediting him, I believe he saw and noted correctly but I'm trying to figure if it was just in TW Native. Don't forget there are now 3 "territories" of TWNEO.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm watching MSNBC HD right now.


Tune to channel *1700* and there are HD stations between there and *1707*


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17483587
> 
> 
> Did anybody see these channels on these stations besides nickdawg? Not that I'm discrediting him, I believe he saw and noted correctly but I'm trying to figure if it was just in TW Native. Don't forget there are now 3 "territories" of TWNEO.



Maybe they got tired of my bitching and whining and only turned them on here.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17483636
> 
> 
> Maybe they got tired of my bitching and whining and only turned them on here.



No I wasn't talking about that. I'm talking about this channel list in the 400''s you posted. Where did you get that?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17483667
> 
> 
> No I wasn't talking about that. I'm talking about this channel list in the 400''s you posted. Where did you get that?



From the NE Ohio HD channel list.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17483675
> 
> 
> From the NE Ohio HD channel list.



Oh yeah. I see it now.


----------



## tjs70

Also Did a full reboot to try and pull them in. Nothing from Lakeside yet


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17483813
> 
> 
> Also Did a full reboot to try and pull them in. Nothing from Lakeside yet



Anything in the 1700 range?


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17483835
> 
> 
> Anything in the 1700 range?



We cannot even enter a channel above 1000 it will not take. 1608 which is an employee channel 1609 which is marked NEO and 1995 and 1996 which are CAM channels for large aprtment buildings exist but you cannot type them in. They can only be accesssed from the guide. So no sighting yet. Hopefully soon!


----------



## nickdawg

Hookbill, you have a Tweety Space page, send a message to OMW. Maybe they'll discuss this tomorrow.


Funny how Cathode Kid mysteriously vanishes. Methinks we have a spy among us.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17484338
> 
> 
> Hookbill, you have a Tweety Space page, send a message to OMW. Maybe they'll discuss this tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Funny how Cathode Kid mysteriously vanishes. Methinks we have a spy among us.



Yes sir I'll get right on that.










I think everybody is already asking. OMW about what's going on. But what the heck i'll shoot a DM at him.


Cathode Kid is mysterious. He knows too much.


----------



## tjs70

Although we do not have the new HD Channels it does appear we have recieved a great deal more startover. HD in particular. TNTHD,HGTVHD,FDHD,TLCHD, NGCHD, DISHD, DXDHD, FXHD, HBOHD, SHOHD


----------



## shooter21198

I wonder if Cathode Kid can predict when Time Warner will have more Viacom owned channels in HD and if Time Warner ever gets NFL Network


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17484569
> 
> 
> I wonder if Cathode Kid can predict when Time Warner will have more Viacom owned channels in HD and if Time Warner ever gets NFL Network



Thr NFL network wad on TW. This was shortly after the Adelphia buy out. TW wanted to put NFL on their sports tier but the NFL said no. I wonder if NFL is on any TW market?


----------



## nickdawg

(read in a spooky voice)


I'm looooking into my crystal ball. I see-I see... I see the NFL network, on the Time Warner Cable. I also see Cleveland Browns, in a large stadium. It's a Super Bowl. They won.


That's when NFL Netwok will be added!


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17483574
> 
> 
> No New Channels from the Lakeside Headend yet



Have once again rebooted this morning. Still no New HD from Lakeside or in Cleveland.


----------



## shooter21198

No channels in the 400s yet

also Ohio folks do you guys have 1708 as FSN Pittsburgh HD because I can't figure out if it will be for everyone in the NEO/Western PA region or just the Western PA region


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17488394
> 
> 
> No channels in the 400s yet
> 
> also Ohio folks do you guys have 1708 as FSN Pittsburgh HD because I can't figure out if it will be for everyone in the NEO/Western PA region or just the Western PA region



No, it deadends at 1707 here. That's probably going to be added to 436 or 437 where we have the HD Bonus channel that shows FSN Ohio.


Also, today all the new channels have guide info on the banner as well as channel logos.


----------



## schandorsky

After getting some SDV channels in the 1600's and the 1800's I thought Time Warner would finalize SDV this week and we would get the same HD channels the rest of you are receiving. The more I think about it and knowing Time Warner Cable, we will be lucky to have it by Christmas.


----------



## GregF2

Totally agree, I thought Amherst would be this week too, but I am just glad that we have some of those HD channels in the 1600's and 1800's.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17488851
> 
> 
> After getting some SDV channels in the 1600's and the 1800's I thought Time Warner would finalize SDV this week and we would get the same HD channels the rest of you are receiving. The more I think about it and knowing Time Warner Cable, we will be lucky to have it by Christmas.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17488851
> 
> 
> After getting some SDV channels in the 1600's and the 1800's I thought Time Warner would finalize SDV this week and we would get the same HD channels the rest of you are receiving. The more I think about it and knowing Time Warner Cable, we will be lucky to have it by Christmas.



So you have channels in the 4-digit channel range too? I wonder why TWC added these channels and left them up there? OMW picked the perfect week to go on a blackout vacation.


----------



## tjs70

Still No new HD in Cleveland Proper







It is listed in the Channel Guide at TWCguide.com but not in the guide where it matters. The Cable box!


----------



## hookbill

I'm a bit surprised that I'm not seeing them yet on TiVo's guide. Usually it hits TiVo before TW puts it on their web page.


Now can you imagine if you are looking at purchasing TW and you go to their web page? You see all those channels but they are not really there. Sad. Wonder what the hang up is?


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm still getting some pixelization on the local HD channels here in Erie. This is only happening in the room where my Roadrunner is also hooked up. I have the main cable in the room split 4 ways, one for the internet and 3 for the TV, VCR, and DVD. I've tried using an amp also, but nothing seems to fix it. Also unhooked the internet cable with no change. The other HD channels seem OK. Anything else I can try?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17494509
> 
> 
> I'm still getting some pixelization on the local HD channels here in Erie. This is only happening in the room where my Roadrunner is also hooked up. I have the main cable in the room split 4 ways, one for the internet and 3 for the TV, VCR, and DVD. I've tried using an amp also, but nothing seems to fix it. Also unhooked the internet cable with no change. The other HD channels seem OK. Anything else I can try?



Yes. Call TW and have them fix it for you. Show them yourself if you have to the difference when the modem is hooked up and when it isn't.


This shouldn't be this difficult for them to fix.


----------



## nickdawg

As of 2:00AM all of the new HDTV channels are present in their correct locations. The 1700s channels are gone.


How's the situation in the former Adelphia areas and Tivo?


Also, is anyone else missing sound on the WE channel, 491?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17496023
> 
> 
> As of 2:00AM all of the new HDTV channels are present in their correct locations. The 1700s channels are gone.
> 
> 
> How's the situation in the former Adelphia areas and Tivo?
> 
> 
> Also, is anyone else missing sound on the WE channel, 491?



I haven't checked all channels but I see MSNBC. I do not have guide data on TiVo. I have volume on 491.


----------



## hookbill

I just got off the phone with TiVo and have reported the line up changes. I also sent an email to [email protected] , however that's an old email address and I don't know if anybody even looks at it.


As usual I always feel it's best if more then one person reports a line up change. More then likely we will receive new channel listings before days out, specially since TW has already updated their web site. If you would like to call TiVo yourself the number is 877.367.8486. If they start asking you to jump through hoops tell them you've already had your TiVo call in and no new lineup data was available.


The guy I got this morning was actually pretty good. If you are recording anything on Showtime, Cinemax or HBO today I suggest going to Season Pass Manager/View Upcoming Episodes and select the same showing on the channel listed in the 600's just to be safe.


----------



## tjs70

Channels are live here as well. A couple of them BBCA in particular is pretty jumpy but other than that they look good. No TiVo update yet.


----------



## ed1202

look good here in Copley/Fairlawn. Hook, I'll join in the TiVo fun and give them a call too. Strength in numbers!


----------



## infoman1

New channels present in NEO Youngstown/Warren area. I am impressed and must say TW has really stepped it up. They are consistently throwing out new channels over the last few months. I wouldn't mind seeing the premiums in all HD though. Certainly narrows the competitive gap with Direct and the dish services.


----------



## WilliamR

Wow, awesome surprise to see these new channels, holy buckets, nice lineup.


Anyone know if we will be getting VH1 in HD any time soon?


----------



## TES77

good morning everyone. any info on when the elyria/north ridgeville area will have all the new channels? seems like we're the last ones to get them. i can still dial them up manually, but would prefer to go thru the guide


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17501275
> 
> 
> good morning everyone. any info on when the elyria/north ridgeville area will have all the new channels? seems like we're the last ones to get them. i can still dial them up manually, but would prefer to go thru the guide



If it makes you feel any better, and I know it doesn't I'm kind of in the same boat. I have all the channels in the right spots but TiVo hasn't supplied guide data and since I time shift everything it's a bit of a problem.


Last night I had recordings scheduled on 491 and 490, Showtime and HBO respectively. I had to manually switch to the other two HD channels which are the only two now for these channels.


In the past when there has been channel switches TiVo somehow knows about the channel moving and corrects itself with the proper channel. But it can't do that without guide data.


Going to make some new SP's for those two shows for now. Hopefully we will get guide data by end of day, TiVo is usually very quick about this.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17501275
> 
> 
> good morning everyone. any info on when the elyria/north ridgeville area will have all the new channels? seems like we're the last ones to get them. i can still dial them up manually, but would prefer to go thru the guide




The last time I email Time Warner cable, which was about a month or so ago, I was told late fall, which puts in December.

Being in the same boat as you I know exactly how you feel. You do realize, even though we are getting some HD channels in the 1600 and 1800's, that we are still getting about 20 HD channels less than the rest of Northeast Ohio. I am sick and tired of paying the same rate as the rest of northeast Ohio and getting less.


----------



## TES77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17502929
> 
> 
> The last time I email Time Warner cable, which was about a month or so ago, I was told late fall, which puts in December.
> 
> Being in the same boat as you I know exactly how you feel. You do realize, even though we are getting some HD channels in the 1600 and 1800's, that we are still getting about 20 HD channels less than the rest of Northeast Ohio. I am sick and tired of paying the same rate as the rest of northeast Ohio and getting less.



that is absolute garbage. what's the reasoning for that? i pay them alot of money and am just about fed up with cable.


----------



## tjs70

Well the bliss has ended







Lakeside is experiencing a partial outage of channels







It appears all SDV Channels are out. Although oddly enough if you click Start Over on the channels that have it despite the black screen it will Start Over. Of course the Start Over is then pretty freeze prone. Come on Time Warner!!!


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/17497468
> 
> 
> look good here in Copley/Fairlawn. Hook, I'll join in the TiVo fun and give them a call too. Strength in numbers!



I must be missing something. I'm in Akron and don't see any of the new HD channels. Is it a Tivo thing or are they somewhere else on the channel lineup. check my 400's and nothing new here. thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17505794
> 
> 
> I must be missing something. I'm in Akron and don't see any of the new HD channels. Is it a Tivo thing or are they somewhere else on the channel lineup. check my 400's and nothing new here. thanks.



Punch in channel 487. That's MSNBCHD. TiVo line up does not have the new channels last I checked. If you see that then you should get the other channels too. Just have to manually punch them in for now.


----------



## hookbill

My TiVo S3 died last night. I had a feeling it was going it was looking sluggish over the past few months.


Last night I attempted to have it call in and see if new data was available for the new HD channels and when I tried to bring up the now playing list it froze. 5 minutes later it rebooted. And rebooted. Did this for 50 minutes.


I tried all the tricks I knew to snap it out of a looping reboot, nothing worked. So today I'm off to Best Buy to buy a replacement, and the good news is it's not going to cost me a penny. My wife has been staying at a Hilton in New Jersey over the majority of this year working on a project. She earned 400.00 in Best Buy gift cards and they arrived yesterday.


I didn't know what to do with them. I do now.










I got 3 years out of that S3 and if I had to do it all over again knowing that I would only get 3 years I probably would have waited until the price dropped. I spent 1000.00 on that machine when it first came out. Replacement TiVo HD with only 50gb less hard drive space will run 299.99. I may order a 1 TB eSATA Hard drive while I'm in the store, that will increase the price by 160.00. If I do that then it will cost me a little something out of my pocket.


Or I could just go to TW and get a pos SA 8300 for nothing, that has never worked right for me and is totally difficult to work with. lol, they will probably give me a SA 8000 since they are giving out all the good machines to people in the Elyria area.


----------



## tjs70

Hook I assume you know that you can replace the hard drive in that unit and get it up again. I like my S3 best of all my Tivo's its worth fixing it. If you don't want to fix it let me know I would be interested in purchasing it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17506963
> 
> 
> My TiVo S3 died last night. I had a feeling it was going it was looking sluggish over the past few months.
> 
> 
> Last night I attempted to have it call in and see if new data was available for the new HD channels and when I tried to bring up the now playing list it froze. 5 minutes later it rebooted. And rebooted. Did this for 50 minutes.
> 
> 
> I tried all the tricks I knew to snap it out of a looping reboot, nothing worked. So today I'm off to Best Buy to buy a replacement, and the good news is it's not going to cost me a penny. My wife has been staying at a Hilton in New Jersey over the majority of this year working on a project. She earned 400.00 in Best Buy gift cards and they arrived yesterday.
> 
> 
> I didn't know what to do with them. I do now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got 3 years out of that S3 and if I had to do it all over again knowing that I would only get 3 years I probably would have waited until the price dropped. I spent 1000.00 on that machine when it first came out. Replacement TiVo HD with only 50gb less hard drive space will run 299.99. I may order a 1 TB eSATA Hard drive while I'm in the store, that will increase the price by 160.00. If I do that then it will cost me a little something out of my pocket.
> 
> 
> Or I could just go to TW and get a pos SA 8300 for nothing, that has never worked right for me and is totally difficult to work with. lol, they will probably give me a SA 8000 since they are giving out all the good machines to people in the Elyria area.



Wow, that sucks. You'd think a couple hundred dollar piece of crap equipment would last longer than three years. My mother has a SA8300 that's also three years old and it's still going. I would've expected much, much, much better out of Tivo.


Oh well, I'm glad I have a SA box. When it breaks, I know it will be taken care of.


Maybe it's because the Tivo cannot be turned off.







I mentioned that before with the SA box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17510686
> 
> 
> Wow, that sucks. You'd think a couple hundred dollar piece of crap equipment would last longer than three years. My mother has a SA8300 that's also three years old and it's still going. I would've expected much, much, much better out of Tivo.



Oh nickdawg you're just drooling in delight over the fact that the S3 failed. Keep in mind I never would have paid that amount of money if the SA 8300 did what it was suppose to do.


I have new equipment for the downstairs now, a brand new TiVo HD and a TiVo approved 1TB eSATA. I walked out of Best Buy paying a total of 150.58 for everything. I've got the receipt to prove it. And I do plan on finding out what happened with the S3. I still think it was hard drive failure but it may not have been the S3. It may have been the eSATA that caused it. I'll find out. It so happened that something came in the mail the same day this happened that allowed me to get a great deal. So I just replaced everything.


I was surprised to see the amount of regular TiVo's Best Buy had. At least 6 of them and 6 TiVo HD's. They only had 1 of the eSATA's I was lucky to get it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17507754
> 
> 
> Hook I assume you know that you can replace the hard drive in that unit and get it up again. I like my S3 best of all my Tivo's its worth fixing it. If you don't want to fix it let me know I would be interested in purchasing it.



Let me know what you think it's worth. I was planning on dropping a new hard drive in it and selling it. But if you want to buy it as is, I'd be happy to talk to you.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17510686
> 
> 
> Wow, that sucks. You'd think a couple hundred dollar piece of crapMaybe it's because the Tivo cannot be turned off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mentioned that before with the SA box.



These days most CE devices aren't really "off" when they're turned off. They might appear to be sleeping but they might be waiting for updates, downloading new schedules, uploading pertinent diagnostic data or just sending/receiving a heartbeat, all of which require it to be mostly "on."


The SA boxes have come a long way. If you're worried about the hard drive though, you can allow it to spin down at night by tuning it to two different music on demand channels (main and PIP tuners), then turning it off. The hard drive will be allowed to spin down because it doesn't need to buffer an audio channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17510954
> 
> 
> These days most CE devices aren't really "off" when they're turned off. They might appear to be sleeping but they might be waiting for updates, downloading new schedules, uploading pertinent diagnostic data or just sending/receiving a heartbeat, all of which require it to be mostly "on."
> 
> 
> The SA boxes have come a long way. If you're worried about the hard drive though, you can allow it to spin down at night by tuning it to two different music on demand channels (main and PIP tuners), then turning it off. The hard drive will be allowed to spin down because it doesn't need to buffer an audio channel.



You can do something similar with TiVo. Just tune to a channel where there isn't anything being broadcast. Like for me one of the On Demand channels would work.


----------



## nickdawg

Whatever TWC uses to get the local HD channels must be worse than my HD OTA setup. I'm watching WJW right now and the picture is freezing and breaking up with audio cutting out occasionally. I watch the same WJW digital channel with the TV connected to the converter box/antenna and it is flawless. Also, on the analog side I've seen channels 4 and 6 prone to a mustard yellow screen with picture freezing. When WOIO has a yellow screen on TWC, it's fine through OTA.


How nice, my now $120 and ever growing cable service cannot do the simplesst task that an old set of rabbit ears and a $10 converter box can.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17512780
> 
> 
> Whatever TWC uses to get the local HD channels must be worse than my HD OTA setup. I'm watching WJW right now and the picture is freezing and breaking up with audio cutting out occasionally. I watch the same WJW digital channel with the TV connected to the converter box/antenna and it is flawless. Also, on the analog side I've seen channels 4 and 6 prone to a mustard yellow screen with picture freezing. When WOIO has a yellow screen on TWC, it's fine through OTA.
> 
> 
> How nice, my now $120 and ever growing cable service cannot do the simplesst task that an old set of rabbit ears and a $10 converter box can.



Just tuned in and have yet to notice anything unusual...


...still nothing unusual. "Cats in the Cradle" brought back some memories, however!


----------



## nickdawg

Apparently the problem is even more widespread. None of the SDV channels work and their analog counterparts are out too. I can't watch MSNBC HD or MSNBC in analog. Everything is out except for a few random crap like TNT HD and USA HD.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17512896
> 
> 
> Apparently the problem is even more widespread. None of the SDV channels work and their analog counterparts are out too. I can't watch MSNBC HD or MSNBC in analog. Everything is out except for a few random crap like TNT HD and USA HD.



Sounds like the same type of outage I experienced here in Westpark yesterday. None of the SDV stuff was working at all. Some of the non-SDV HD channels worked sporadically, but they eventually all crapped out. Very annoying indeed. Hope they get your region restored soon.


----------



## nickdawg

Yay!! I finally have analog TV again!! After a horrible loud fuzz noize on MSNBC and the screen flashing and jumping, I can watch under 100 analog channels again.


----------



## subavision212

Anybody know what's up with WEWS HD? I just realized this morning that the channel has disappeared on my 32" dynex that has an HD tuner. I re-scanned (it used to be 5.1) and it is still gone. Just have my cable plugged into the set and still get the other local HD stations. Hoping someone had some info. thanks.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17514672
> 
> 
> Anybody know what's up with WEWS HD? I just realized this morning that the channel has disappeared on my 32" dynex that has an HD tuner. I re-scanned (it used to be 5.1) and it is still gone. Just have my cable plugged into the set and still get the other local HD stations. Hoping someone had some info. thanks.



WEWS is on the air but working on the main tower. They are temporarily transmitting from the auxiliary tower which reduces the coverage area. If you cannot receive the signal now but could last week then it's probably because of the reduced power. This work should be completed by the middle of next week and will result in improved coverage for the entire viewing area.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/17514755
> 
> 
> WEWS is on the air but working on the main tower. They are temporarily transmitting from the auxiliary tower which reduces the coverage area. If you cannot receive the signal now but could last week then it's probably because of the reduced power. This work should be completed by the middle of next week and will result in improved coverage for the entire viewing area.



Hope it works for my area. Ive never gotten WEWS-DT good enough to lock in on my setup..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/17497468
> 
> 
> look good here in Copley/Fairlawn. Hook, I'll join in the TiVo fun and give them a call too. Strength in numbers!



I had an issue and had to call TiVo Customer support last night. In the course of the conversation I mentioned the fact that we still didn't have guide data and wanted to see what was going on with my case number. I gave the rep number to the CSR and he said he couldn't find the case number.


He did however find that I had called and had a full listing of the channels that needed to be changed. He said he would make sure it went directly to Tribune Media.


I think we've been lucky to have guide data support as quickly as we got in the past, however someone has dropped the ball on this. Please, if you are a TiVo owner call customer support and report the new channel changes. Maybe one of our request will actually get through to Tribune Media!


Channels:


455 Planet Green Hd

482 G4 HD

487 MSNBC HD

488 TWC HD

490 BBC AMERICA HD (was HBO HD)

491 WE HD (Was Showtime HD)

492 TV One HD (was Cinemax HD)

760 Team HD


TiVo's number is 877.367.8486


Their customer service is really shot to ****, so bad now that I will not recommend a TiVo to anyone. I know it's a pain, but it may be the only way to fix this. I will also email Tribune Media, but so far that has had no affect.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17515939
> 
> 
> I will not recommend a TiVo to anyone.





































































































































































Yet you want to go buy another one?










May I suggest for you:


----------



## hookbill

I'm simply stating for the amount of knowledge I expect from technical support that TiVo is not meeting that need. I am in no way indicating that the piece of crap you put on your picture is anywhere in the league of TiVo.


UNDERSTAND THIS NICKDAWG. THE FRIGGEN SA 8300 DOESN'T WORK!!!!


How many times do I have to explain it to you? 3 machines, 3 failures in 2 years of time with that crap.


Edit: And I didn't "want" to buy one, I "did" buy one.


----------



## nickdawg

It does too work. I have one and its fine. The only reason why I had to trade in the 8300HD (not C) box for a C box is that one was messed up after having it two years. This did not start until a software update TWC passed through in March 2009. Before that the box had Passport and it survived the Passport to SARA conversion in May 2008.


Although I have to admit I'd probably want to voluntarily trade it with the latest software updates that added Nearest Tune. Plus the 4250HDC UI was smoother and more polished than the legacy HD boxes. The 8300HD had an annoying lagging fade whenever menus appeared.


But still, that's hardware issues. Don't think that a purchased DVR won't one day be a POS due to software updates. Especially all that interactive internet crap. I cringe at the thought of those "apps"(as the annoying Apple commercials say!) crashing the Tivo.


Besides, I bet there will be a new Tivo S4 HD out before three years. Uh-oh!










TWC will update their equipment for free, although I would have to say _thanks but no thanks_ to the "upgrade" over the 8300HDC, which technically is the Samsung boxes. The Samsung boxes suck majorly, so I don't want one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17516719
> 
> 
> It does too work. I have one and its fine. The only reason why I had to trade in the 8300HD (not C) box for a C box is that one was messed up after having it two years. This did not start until a software update TWC passed through in March 2009. Before that the box had Passport and it survived the Passport to SARA conversion in May 2008.
> 
> 
> Although I have to admit I'd probably want to voluntarily trade it with the latest software updates that added Nearest Tune. Plus the 4250HDC UI was smoother and more polished than the legacy HD boxes. The 8300HD had an annoying lagging fade whenever menus appeared.
> 
> 
> But still, that's hardware issues. Don't think that a purchased DVR won't one day be a POS due to software updates. Especially all that interactive internet crap. I cringe at the thought of those "apps"(as the annoying Apple commercials say!) crashing the Tivo.
> 
> 
> Besides, I bet there will be a new Tivo S4 HD out before three years. Uh-oh!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TWC will update their equipment for free, although I would have to say _thanks but no thanks_ to the "upgrade" over the 8300HDC, which technically is the Samsung boxes. The Samsung boxes suck majorly, so I don't want one.




I'm not going to do this dance with you again. It's my money, I'll spend it how I please. If you read my post about my new machine you'd understand that I paid pennies on the dollar for it. It's got 1200 gb of HD space. I got 400.00 off the price. It was worth the money.


TiVo for your information has another model out besides the HD. It comes with a 1tb internal hard drive but I didn't buy it because it was cheaper for me to get the TiVo HD with a 1tb eSATA then to purchase the single machine. Besides it runs the same platform.


I'm not the least bit concerned about another model coming out. What I am concerned about in regards to TiVo is that they have farmed out their technical support to a bunch of morons. I think they are people that TW probably fired.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/17514755
> 
> 
> WEWS is on the air but working on the main tower. They are temporarily transmitting from the auxiliary tower which reduces the coverage area. If you cannot receive the signal now but could last week then it's probably because of the reduced power. This work should be completed by the middle of next week and will result in improved coverage for the entire viewing area.



Thanks for the info. You never know what the evil empire is up to behind those closed doors. I guess I should just keep scanning over the next few days to check.


----------



## kedlav

Spoke with a local tech who was honest enough today, recent issues are mostly due to oversaturation. They have techs spaced out throughout NE Ohio so that when SDV channels go out, they can flip the reset button in Canton, then at all the local nodes, resulting in >2 hr service outages. If you get outages, call in and complain


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kedlav* /forum/post/17519662
> 
> 
> Spoke with a local tech who was honest enough today, recent issues are mostly due to oversaturation. They have techs spaced out throughout NE Ohio so that when SDV channels go out, they can flip the reset button in Canton, then at all the local nodes, resulting
> 
> in >2 hr service outages. If you get outages, call in and complain



I think people are under the impression that there is a big board at TW full of lights showing every head end. And when something goes wrong a light starts flashing. It doesn't work that way. If you have an issue call TW and let them know. Just writing about it here will not get your problem fixed.


----------



## schandorsky

I got home today about 3:15 and I saw that my cable box had rebooted, it was on channel 2. I though to myself we got the rest of the HD channels that everybody else in northeast Ohio has. No, just the opposite, we lost all the HD channels we had in the 1600's and most in the 1800's. We are basically back to where we were before the SDV was initialize.

thanks Time Warner for nothing.


----------



## GregF2

I just noticed the same thing. That is so frustrating! They have until Dec to get it straight or I will be going to satellite.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17522937
> 
> 
> I got home today about 3:15 and I saw that my cable box had rebooted, it was on channel 2. I though to myself we got the rest of the HD channels that everybody else in northeast Ohio has. No, just the opposite, we lost all the HD channels we had in the 1600's and most in the 1800's. We are basically back to where we were before the SDV was initialize.
> 
> thanks Time Warner for nothing.


----------



## ErieMarty

what channel is that on again ????


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17524119
> 
> 
> what channel is that on again ????



That one nonexistent channel which can be watched on DirecTV, Dish, Comcast, etc.


----------



## nickdawg

Based on the LA TWC system, it appears all we are missing from our lineup is:


Fuse HD

WGN HD

History International HD

Investigation Discovery HD

QVC HD

HSN HD

IFC HD

NHL HD

NBA HD

Tennis Channel HD

CBS Sports HD


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17525215
> 
> 
> Based on the LA TWC system, it appears all we are missing from our lineup is:



A few good channels, a few some-people-like-these, and a bunch of crap.


----------



## schandorsky

Another week goes by and we are still waiting in Amherst!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17525215
> 
> 
> Based on the LA TWC system, it appears all we are missing from our lineup is:
> 
> 
> Fuse HD
> 
> WGN HD
> 
> History International HD
> 
> Investigation Discovery HD
> 
> QVC HD
> 
> HSN HD
> 
> IFC HD
> 
> NHL HD
> 
> NBA HD
> 
> Tennis Channel HD
> 
> CBS Sports HD



This is interesting. I believe that Austin TX was the first TW town to go SDV. I wonder what their line up looks like?


I'd also like to know how we compare now with Columbus?


----------



## hookbill

I'm hopeful that it might get changed, I got a response from Tribune Media saying they were forwarding my email to the people who handle line up changes. Found that kind of strange since that's the email address it gives. Hopefully they will get our guide data right, there are some shows on MSNBC HD I want to record.


----------



## ErieMarty

 http://www.multichannel.com/article/...nk&rid=6240895


----------



## JayPSU




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17526970
> 
> 
> This is interesting. I believe that Austin TX was the first TW town to go SDV. I wonder what their line up looks like?
> 
> 
> I'd also like to know how we compare now with Columbus?



Here is our lineup here in Columbus, Ohio. The channels that say "coming soon" were just added on Wednesday. I'm wondering when/if they will start adding addional HBO's, Cinemax's, Starz' in the future. Anyway, our lineup is actually very competitive now.


740 Game HD

760 Team HD

1004 WCMH HD Columbus, OH (NBC)

1006 WSYX HD Columbus, OH (ABC)

1007 WOSU HD Columbus, OH (PBS)

1008 WTTE HD Columbus, OH (FOX)

1010 WBNS HD Columbus, OH (CBS)

1013 WWHO HD (CW)

1101 Disney HD

1102 Disney XD HD

1106 Cartoon Network HD

1112 ABC Family HD

1117 Hallmark Movie Channel HD

1130 Discovery Channel HD

1131 TLC HD

1132 Science Channel HD

1133 Animal Planet HD

1134 National Geographic HD

1135 History HD

1140 BIO HD

1144 HD Theater

1145 Smithsonian Channel HD

1150 HGTV HD

1151 Food Network HD

1155 Travel Channel HD

1156 Planet Green HD (Coming Soon)

1159 Style HD (Coming Soon)

1201 USA HD

1202 TBS HD

1203 TNT HD

1204 A&E HD

1205 FX HD

1208 E! HD (Coming Soon)

1209 Bravo HD

1214 WE HD (Coming Soon)

1217 TV One HD (Coming Soon)

1224 SyFy HD

1225 BBC America HD (Coming Soon)

1235 Universal HD

1267 Palladia HD

1276 TCM HD

1277 AMC HD

1278 LMN HD

1284 MGM HD

1301 ESPN-HD

1302 ESPN2 HD

1303 ESPNU HD

1305 ESPN News HD

1308 Sports Time Ohio HD

1309 Fox Sports Ohio HD

1310 Fox Sports Ohio HD Alternate

1316 Golf HD

1317 SPEED HD

1323 Versus HD

1326 MLB Network HD

1329 G4 HD (Coming Soon)

1330 Outdoor Channel HD

1333 Big Ten Network HD

1340 MavTV HD

1350 CNN HD

1351 HLN HD

1352 Fox News HD

1353 Fox Business Network HD (Coming Soon)

1354 MSNBC HD (Coming Soon)

1355 CNBC HD+

1370 The Weather Channel HD

1400 HD Showcase On Demand

1416 Big Ten Network HD On Demand

1420 Smithsonian HD On Demand

1500 Movies on Demand HD

1520 - 1528 Feature Movies on Demand HD

1603 HBO HD

1622 Cinemax HD

1642 Showtime HD

1677 Starz HD

1701 Pay Per View Events HD

1713 Adult On Demand HD

1999 Movies On Demand HD


----------



## ErieMarty

like ours..


doing a look..I can't see what Columbus is getting that we are not in NE Ohio...unless I missed something..


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17526970
> 
> 
> This is interesting. I believe that Austin TX was the first TW town to go SDV. I wonder what their line up looks like?
> 
> 
> I'd also like to know how we compare now with Columbus?



If you want to see the best lineup, look at NYC. They were the first to have the most channels because all analog outside of local broadcast was eliminated. And I've heard that they are still going to do SDV in that market, which means TWC must have plans for 100+ channels in the future.


----------



## hookbill

OK TiVo people new guide data is here. Have your TiVo force a call if it hasn't called in already.


----------



## shooter21198

I deleted the NYC/NJ local channels but this is the rest of them



> Quote:
> 340 Adult HD On Demand
> 
> 350 PPV for HD Only
> 
> 411 TEAM HD
> 
> 445 Game HD
> 
> 461 NBA TV HD
> 
> 465 The Tennis Channel HD
> 
> 467 CBS College Sports HD
> 
> 468 NHL Network HD
> 
> 471 Big Ten Network HD On Demand
> 
> 472 Big Ten Network HD
> 
> 473 Big Ten 2
> 
> 474 Big Ten 3
> 
> 475 Big Ten 4
> 
> 476 Big Ten 5
> 
> 480 Outdoor Channel HD
> 
> 481 Versus HD
> 
> 482 The Golf Channel HD
> 
> 651 HBO HD
> 
> 652 HBO 2 HD
> 
> 653 HBO Signature HD
> 
> 654 HBO Family HD
> 
> 655 HBO Comedy HD
> 
> 656 HBO Zone HD
> 
> 657 HBO Latino HD
> 
> 658 Cinemax HD
> 
> 659 More Max HD
> 
> 660 ActionMAX HD
> 
> 661 ThrillerMAX HD
> 
> 662 W Max HD
> 
> 663 @ Max HD
> 
> 664 Five Star Max HD
> 
> 665 Outer Max HD
> 
> 666 Showtime HD
> 
> 667 SHO 2 HD
> 
> 668 Showcase HD
> 
> 669 SHO Extreme HD
> 
> 674 TMC HD
> 
> 675 TMC Xtra HD
> 
> 676 Starz HD
> 
> 677 Starz Edge HD
> 
> 678 Starz Kids & Family HD
> 
> 681 Starz Comedy HD
> 
> 682 Encore HD
> 
> 685 BBC America HD
> 
> 686 Crime and Investigation HD
> 
> 687 Live Well HD
> 
> 689 Style HD
> 
> 691 fuse HD
> 
> 692 G4 HD
> 
> 698 Planet Green HD
> 
> 699 HD Showcase On Demand
> 
> 700 HD MOD+
> 
> 703 TNT HD
> 
> 708 TBS HD
> 
> 710 FX HD
> 
> 714 MSNBC HD
> 
> 715 CNBC HD
> 
> 716 USA HD
> 
> 717 Syfy HD
> 
> 718 Bravo HD
> 
> 720 Palladia HD
> 
> 723 Investigation Discovery HD
> 
> 724 E! HD
> 
> 726 SportsNet New York HD
> 
> 727 MSG HD
> 
> 728 ESPN HD
> 
> 729 ESPN2 HD
> 
> 733 QVC HD
> 
> 734 Universal HD
> 
> 738 ABC Family HD
> 
> 739 HSN HD
> 
> 740 History HD
> 
> 743 Fox Business Network HD
> 
> 744 Fox News HD
> 
> 746 A&E HD
> 
> 747 Telemundo HD
> 
> 748 MSG Plus HD
> 
> 749 Disney HD
> 
> 750 Food Network HD
> 
> 752 TLC HD
> 
> 753 YES HD
> 
> 754 AMC HD
> 
> 758 Headline News HD
> 
> 759 WE HD
> 
> 760 Disney XD High Definition
> 
> 761 Cartoon Network HD
> 
> 763 BIO HD
> 
> 764 HGTV HD
> 
> 765 National Geographic HD
> 
> 766 Discovery HD
> 
> 767 HD Theater
> 
> 772 Weather Channel HD
> 
> 774 SPEED HD
> 
> 775 Science Channel HD
> 
> 778 CNN HD
> 
> 780 Lifetime Movie Network HD
> 
> 781 IFC HD
> 
> 782 TCM HD
> 
> 783 MLB Network HD
> 
> 784 Hallmark Movie Channel HD
> 
> 786 Animal Planet HD
> 
> 787 MavTV HD
> 
> 788 Travel Channel HD
> 
> 790 TV One HD
> 
> 791 Game HD
> 
> 792 ESPN News HD
> 
> 793 ESPNU HD
> 
> 794 Smithsonian Channel HD On Demand
> 
> 795 Smithsonian Channel HD
> 
> 796 MGM HD


----------



## hookbill

So how come they just add a little at a time? Why not just give us the channels and get it over with?


Because they want to justify price increases! Instead of one jump that would shock the crap out of us they plan on doing it in segments. Like the cable card price increase. Then it will be another price increase.


Or maybe just the technology is too fragile to do it all at one time. At the rate they are going it will be a while before we catch NYC.


----------



## shooter21198

if TWC actually delivered the CBS College Sports TV HD, NHL Network HD, and NBATV HD like they were supposed to earlier this month.

Subtract all the Regional Sports network HD channels in NYC

And from what I've seen the HD Premium sub-channels usually come all at once

and include useless channels such as HSN and QVC plus a few more

and we are caught up with the largest market


----------



## tjs70

Hard to believe that we are almost to 700 pages. Hook and Nickdawg we have both of you to thank







SDV has been stable for 2 days in Cleveland (Knock on Wood). Also Thanks Hook for contacting TiVo it is nice to be able to record shows on the new channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17531139
> 
> 
> Hard to believe that we are almost to 700 pages. Hook and Nickdawg we have both of you to thank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SDV has been stable for 2 days in Cleveland (Knock on Wood). Also Thanks Hook for contacting TiVo it is nice to be able to record shows on the new channels.



Well, I do have 1711 posts in this topic.










Also, as of 11/13/09 at 9:12pm, "Cleveland, OH - TWC" is second in posts behind "New York, NY - TWC". Cleveland has 20,960 posts, New York has 21,959 posts.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17531593
> 
> 
> Well, I do have 1711 posts in this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, as of 11/13/09 at 9:12pm, "Cleveland, OH - TWC" is second in posts behind "New York, NY - TWC". Cleveland has 20,960 posts, New York has 21,959 posts.



About 3/4 of those posts are you griping about something. The rest is actual useful information or arguing with me about my TiVo.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Proud Flock Leader of 10 Parrots
> 
> MY NAME IS NOT BILL (but you can call me hook)



Uh-oh, did someone have a falling out with Tivo? I noticed you're no longer a proud owner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17531895
> 
> 
> Uh-oh, did someone have a falling out with Tivo? I noticed you're no longer a proud owner.



First let me say that your latest signature is dumb. I'd expect something clever from you.


The reason why I changed the signature is because I couldn't come up with anything that sounded right. Proud owner of the TiVo HD and the TiVo HD? Proud owner of 2 HD Tiivo's?


Did you know forum rules say you can't list your equipment? So I decided just to leave it out. I am pissed off about TiVo's customer service. But that had nothing to do with the signature change.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17531964
> 
> 
> First let me say that your latest signature is dumb. I'd expect something clever from you..



haha, it's not permanent. And it's Friday night. I'm ready for bed. I'll try harder next time!










Be sure to join us again next week, same dawg time, same dawg channel for another episode of "How To Inflate Your Post Count And Gripe About TWC".


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Like I'd own a piece of disposable technology with a hard drive that can fail.



Umm, doesn't owning a computer usually fall under this category?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17532829
> 
> 
> Umm, doesn't owning a computer usually fall under this category?



Maybe he rents his computer?


----------



## tjs70

This is like a watched pot! it never boils. This has to be one of the longest pages ever


----------



## hookbill

I never even notice the page numbers. I'll have to look at page 666 and see how evil nickdawg was during that period.

















I just kid. This forum wouldn't be half as much fun without nickdawg. Sure he raises my blood pressure from time to time but he has such fantastic rants. Place wouldn't be the same without him.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17531139
> 
> 
> Hard to believe that we are almost to 700 pages. Hook and Nickdawg we have both of you to thank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SDV has been stable for 2 days in Cleveland (Knock on Wood). Also Thanks Hook for contacting TiVo it is nice to be able to record shows on the new channels.



I have a hunch that this post will turn the page, so to speak. If it doesn't, sorry for the static...


...w00t!


----------



## Ken H

Can we please keep on topic?


----------



## bassguitarman

Well back on topic I had problems with a whole bunch of the SDV upper 400 series channels last night. Would either get a blanks screen or the channel no available message. I didnt check this morning.


----------



## ed1202




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17529824
> 
> 
> So how come they just add a little at a time? Why not just give us the channels and get it over with?
> 
> 
> Because they want to justify price increases! Instead of one jump that would shock the crap out of us they plan on doing it in segments. Like the cable card price increase. Then it will be another price increase.



But I thought Time Warner Cable was the "_Home of Free HD_"?


----------



## ErieMarty

or early December


any ideas if we are done for the year or will they add new channels that I can't get all the time but I do get a lovely message saying try again...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/17543494
> 
> 
> But I thought Time Warner Cable was the "_Home of Free HD_"?



Yeah free if you have their DVR. Sooner or later you watch, they will charge us for the tuner adapter.


I don't understand how they figure out what is free HD and what is free with digital cable. It's an oxymoron. You need digital cable to get the "free" cable channels anyway. True you can somewhat get around it with qam but let's get realistic.


----------



## nickdawg

haha, the Clowns got their ass handed to them. I'm so happy. That's what those idiots at WJW get for not showing Hose tonight.


Instead of a high rated FOX drama, we got to see a crappy high school football team get its ass kicked. What a waste.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17547990
> 
> 
> haha, the Clowns got their ass handed to them. I'm so happy. That's what those idiots at WJW get for not showing Hose tonight.
> 
> 
> Instead of a high rated FOX drama, we got to see a crappy high school football team get its ass kicked. What a waste.



House will be shown tonight. My DVR is set to record the series and I looked to see if it was going to record the game by mistake. It turns out the guide data already showed the game on WJW and House is shown for Tuesday with the record banner showing it scheduled to be recorded Tueday instead..


It was a pathetic game though. Like watching a train wreck. Its so sad to see the Browns as bad as they are.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17548971
> 
> 
> House will be shown tonight. My DVR is set to record the series and I looked to see if it was going to record the game by mistake. It turns out the guide data already showed the game on WJW and House is shown for Tuesday with the record banner showing it scheduled to be recorded Tueday instead..
> 
> 
> It was a pathetic game though. Like watching a train wreck. Its so sad to see the Browns as bad as they are.
> 
> 
> Ray



You know House will be in SD in that little tiny window they use to box things up on WJW. That's going to suck. Also V and NCIS are on at the 8:00 hour. If that's when it's scheduled I'll have a conflict.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17546193
> 
> 
> Yeah free if you have their DVR. Sooner or later you watch, they will charge us for the tuner adapter.
> 
> 
> I don't understand how they figure out what is free HD and what is free with digital cable. It's an oxymoron. You need digital cable to get the "free" cable channels anyway. True you can somewhat get around it with qam but let's get realistic.



I thought of that same thing too..not like HD channels available with basic service.


I am suprised Direct or Dish haven't jumped on that false advertising by TW..


----------



## JayPSU




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/17549057
> 
> 
> I thought of that same thing too..not like HD channels available with basic service.
> 
> 
> I am suprised Direct or Dish haven't jumped on that false advertising by TW..



They advertise "free HD" because Directv and Dish charge a $10 "HD access" fee each month in addition to their regular service packages. TWC does not have any such charge in addition to their service packages.


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JayPSU* /forum/post/17549094
> 
> 
> They advertise "free HD" because Directv and Dish charge a $10 "HD access" fee each month in addition to their regular service packages. TWC does not have any such charge in addition to their service packages.



Time Warner charges $8 to $16 for their boxes so you can receive HD.

Plus here in Amherst we are are still waiting for the majority of HD channels that you are receiving and we are paying the same rates as you are.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17548983
> 
> 
> You know House will be in SD in that little tiny window they use to box things up on WJW. That's going to suck. Also V and NCIS are on at the 8:00 hour. If that's when it's scheduled I'll have a conflict.



**I'm going to my happy place**










I understand the limitations of WJW and FOX, due to the crappy splicer system and the inability to record SD. But why can't they do something else? Last time I saw something recorded in SD from FOX, it had the "FOX HD available in HD" bug that appears after commercials, and it was windowboxed. Why not record it anamorph and show it SD widescreen? That would be better. Or at least crop it to 4:3 and show it that way. Bars on the sides: OK. Bars on top/bottom: NO!


House will also be on USA HD in 1080i in a week or two, depending on where they are with the replays.


JUST SAY NO TO WINDOWBOXING!


----------



## hookbill

Well for whatever reason at least there won't be a scheduling conflict. I just double checked that and WJW is starting their small "House" at 6:59. Kind of a strange time to start, guess it must be 1:01 on the guide.


----------



## hookbill

You know the more I think about it I say why should I have to look at that little mini version of House.


BT is your friend as well as mine. It will beat the crap out of what WJW will give us tonight.


----------



## nickdawg

USA HD is your friend.







USA replays House, usually a week behind. Not just in 720p, but 1080i HD. I'll wait for it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17553035
> 
> 
> USA HD is your friend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USA replays House, usually a week behind. Not just in 720p, but 1080i HD. I'll wait for it.



USA may very well be my friend. But not for the next two weeks.


A quick search on my DVR's season pass for other episodes indicates that tonights episode, "Teamwork" is not on the schedule on USA HD.


And you act like being in 1080i is better then 720p. I don't think so. I prefer 720p. Shocking!







nickdawg and I are disagreeing on something.


I'll just take my 720p right of the internet version. That will work fine for me.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JayPSU* /forum/post/17549094
> 
> 
> They advertise "free HD" because Directv and Dish charge a $10 "HD access" fee each month in addition to their regular service packages. TWC does not have any such charge in addition to their service packages.



At least with Dish you get some extra channels that are HD only (HD NET, HD Movies, WFN, MGM, Discovery HD Theater [which I get for free on a "test channel" etc.) for that $10 fee.


I have an HD DVR but do not subscribe to HD programming (no HDTV yet). I'm "grandfathered" since I jumped onto the HD DVR bandwagon early. I still get my locals in HD (the big 4 via satellite, the rest OTA, plus everything SD via satellite) as well as FSN Ohio & STO in HD when games are on, and premiums (which I only got when they gave me 3 months free) all in HD without paying the $10. So who's the "home of free HD"?


BTW the HD signals I do get look great downrezzed on my Trinitron - better than anything SD.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17553124
> 
> 
> USA may very well be my friend. But not for the next two weeks.
> 
> 
> A quick search on my DVR's season pass for other episodes indicates that tonights episode, "Teamwork" is not on the schedule on USA HD.
> 
> 
> And you act like being in 1080i is better then 720p. I don't think so. I prefer 720p. Shocking!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nickdawg and I are disagreeing on something.
> 
> 
> I'll just take my 720p right of the internet version. That will work fine for me.



I'll tell you a little secret: I'd prefer 720p too. The PQ on almost all the 1080i HD channels is so bad these days, they might as well broadcast at 720p. USA, TBS and TNT look worse than MLB channel, F/X and ESPNs. Assuming all the channels get roughly the same starved bandwidth, the 720p channels look better.


After seeing REAL HD, I'm never looking to the internet again. It's not worth wasting all that time downloading House, if it's gonna be on TV eventually. Either on USA HD or FOX in repeats eventually.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17553233
> 
> 
> BTW the HD signals I do get look great downrezzed on my Trinitron - better than anything SD.



Does the Dish equipment have changeable aspect ratios? TWC's equipment is crap. Unless you use the component output, you get a forced picture with black or gray bars on the screen without any way to change it. It sucks because I got another HD box hoping I could do what I can with a $10 DTV converter. Nope. So my TV(also a Trinitron!







) still gets to watch all the analog cable channels on their old numbers.










It really pisses me off that on 2009 a HD box cannot change out[ut formats, especially when DTV converters can.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17553239
> 
> 
> I'll tell you a little secret: I'd prefer 720p too. The PQ on almost all the 1080i HD channels is so bad these days, they might as well broadcast at 720p. USA, TBS and TNT look worse than MLB channel, F/X and ESPNs. Assuming all the channels get roughly the same starved bandwidth, the 720p channels look better.
> 
> 
> After seeing REAL HD, I'm never looking to the internet again. It's not worth wasting all that time downloading House, if it's gonna be on TV eventually. Either on USA HD or FOX in repeats eventually.



Just an FYI it took 30 minutes to download House. It will take about the same amount of time to upload it to my DVR. But I will agree compared to "real" HD Internet doesn't touch it.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17553267
> 
> 
> Just an FYI it took 30 minutes to download House. It will take about the same amount of time to upload it to my DVR. But I will agree compared to "real" HD Internet doesn't touch it.



Cool. I guess my *$19.95* AT&T internet service is pretty good. It used to take me about 30 minutes to download TV shows too. How much do you pay for internet again?


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17547990
> 
> 
> haha, the Clowns got their ass handed to them. I'm so happy. That's what those idiots at WJW get for not showing Hose tonight.
> 
> 
> Instead of a high rated FOX drama, we got to see a crappy high school football team get its ass kicked. What a waste.



The NFL requires that all nationally televised games be offered by a local station for OTA and basic cable customers who don't receive said national station. Also those 'idoits' made more money off the local ads that aired during that waste of time then they would have showing 'House', and that's really all they care about.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17553267
> 
> 
> Just an FYI it took 30 minutes to download House. It will take about the same amount of time to upload it to my DVR. But I will agree compared to "real" HD Internet doesn't touch it.



If you step away from torrents and looked at direct downloads you could have gotten a 720p rip of 'House' in that same time.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17553304
> 
> 
> Cool. I guess my *$19.95* AT&T internet service is pretty good. It used to take me about 30 minutes to download TV shows too. How much do you pay for internet again?



I don't know to be honest with you. I pay for so much crap from TW that I don't know what exactly I pay for stuff.


I had DSL once, it sucked in reliability but to be fair that was in the Cincinnati area and many years ago.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/17554291
> 
> 
> 
> If you step away from torrents and looked at direct downloads you could have gotten a 720p rip of 'House' in that same time.



I haven't got a clue about what you're talking about, but welcome to the Forum anyway.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17558712
> 
> 
> I had DSL once, it sucked in reliability but to be fair that was in the Cincinnati area and many years ago.



It hasn't changed that much... I daily work with a large number of VPN connections, and have significantly more issues with those that run over DSL vs. Cable...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17562505
> 
> 
> It hasn't changed that much... I daily work with a large number of VPN connections, and have significantly more issues with those that run over DSL vs. Cable...



Any site you go to to test speed always has DSL listed slower then cable. I can't remember off hand how fast I test but I know its close to t3 speed (download). Using bt to measure how fast your speed compares with cable is hardly accurate. Besides when I said 30 minutes I was talking about a guess I didn't sit there and watch it.


Lots of other factors in downloading bt like seeds and leeches. Nickdawg just loves that land line.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17553266
> 
> 
> Does the Dish equipment have changeable aspect ratios? TWC's equipment is crap. Unless you use the component output, you get a forced picture with black or gray bars on the screen without any way to change it. It sucks because I got another HD box hoping I could do what I can with a $10 DTV converter. Nope. So my TV(also a Trinitron!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) still gets to watch all the analog cable channels on their old numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It really pisses me off that on 2009 a HD box cannot change out[ut formats, especially when DTV converters can.



Absolutely! On an HD channel I can switch between letterbox w/ gray bars, letterbox with black bars (my usual choice) stretch and 2 levels of zoom. The second level of zoom is more or less what you see when you are watching an SD feed of a local channel from cable or satellite. It perfect for 4 X 3 broadcasts on the locals, it gets rid of all the bars. It looks 100 X better than the SD feed of the same channel on my old Sony.


As long as the channel is HD you are in control of the aspect ratio. I'm willing to bet there are similar options on the HD output, hopefully including the SD channels in that case.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17567358
> 
> 
> Absolutely! On an HD channel I can switch between letterbox w/ gray bars, letterbox with black bars (my usual choice) stretch and 2 levels of zoom. The second level of zoom is more or less what you see when you are watching an SD feed of a local channel from cable or satellite. It perfect for 4 X 3 broadcasts on the locals, it gets rid of all the bars. It looks 100 X better than the SD feed of the same channel on my old Sony.
> 
> 
> As long as the channel is HD you are in control of the aspect ratio. I'm willing to bet there are similar options on the HD output, hopefully including the SD channels in that case.



TWC's boxes won't let you do that. I've tried every combination of Stretch vs. Zoom vs. Normal, 4x3 vs. 16x9 Aspect Ratio and 1080i, 720p, 480i and 480p. Regardless of what yo do the picture won't change unless you use the component output. Only the component output lets you change the picture size.


The stupid thing is it forces the IPG and all other UI screens/graphics to be 4x3, just like they were on the SD boxes. To be honest, I'd be happy if the box didn't have changeable aspect ratios, just force 4x3 output. Black bars on the screen are ever acceptable for me so I just watch the analog version of the channel. All the local channels are good with their downconversion.


----------



## schandorsky

Hey Time warner Cable,

Another week goes by and we are still waiting!


----------



## Gary16

If all goes well, WEWS Cleveland should be on its new antenna by noon tomorrow (Saturday). The new antenna is 23.2' higher than the old antenna. The center of radiation above AMSL will be 1837.53', HAAT of 958.27', 741.73' above ground, 958.27' above average terrain. The total tower height is now 775'.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17567506
> 
> 
> TWC's boxes won't let you do that. I've tried every combination of Stretch vs. Zoom vs. Normal, 4x3 vs. 16x9 Aspect Ratio and 1080i, 720p, 480i and 480p. Regardless of what yo do the picture won't change unless you use the component output. Only the component output lets you change the picture size.
> 
> 
> The stupid thing is it forces the IPG and all other UI screens/graphics to be 4x3, just like they were on the SD boxes. To be honest, I'd be happy if the box didn't have changeable aspect ratios, just force 4x3 output. Black bars on the screen are ever acceptable for me so I just watch the analog version of the channel. All the local channels are good with their downconversion.



A footnote: I use the S-Video output of my E* DVR. Every HD channels has the ability to stretch & zoom including the OTA signals. The only channels I cannot change the aspect ratio on are any SD channels including subchannels off the OTA tuner. As long as it's HD I can change the aspect ratio.


The same feature is available on the composite and RF feeds. BTW: the RF feed is like having your own home cable system headend. It outputs NTSC RF on either UHF or Cable hyperband channels and modulates the audio with BTSC for stereo sound. The RF output is powerful enough to supply an entire house with an RF signal without any additional amplification (in fact they suggest using an attenuator if you only have 1 set on the line with a short cable). Both satellite tuners are available as separate RF channels and the remote control are RF so you can use them in another room and still control the receiver through walls. U-Verse makes a big deal about whole home systems, E* has been doing it for years.


----------



## hookbill

Remember a while back I was talking about the elimination if analog channels and why it couldn't be done because of equipment in hotels and hospits? Well, I'm in a hospital right now looking at a 42 inch LG LCD tv, fully digital capable. They have the hospitals menu on screen and you have choices of movies television and there are 5 HD channel. All local. WOIO is not a choice.


Point is modern equipment is being installed in these facilities. Analog should be gone in 3 years.


I'm assuming its cable but because of the menu set up I can't say for certain.


----------



## Michael P 2341

Parma Hospital's in-house TV system has gone through many incarnations since I've lived here. At first the had all the locals OTA and channel shifted (due to the saturation from the antenna farm which is so close that you can see intimate details of the towers up close). You would think the reception would be great, not! Even shifting the channels could not help a poorly constructed system.


Then they went with DirecTV. This added many "cable channels" which looked fine, but the locals still sucked. Now they get their TV from COX Cable's analog service. This is the best it has been but still not perfect. At least they stopped charging for TV (at least they did for awhile, I'm not sure if that is for good or just a temporary situation).


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17577574
> 
> 
> Remember a while back I was talking about the elimination if analog channels and why it couldn't be done because of equipment in hotels and hospits? Well, I'm in a hospital right now looking at a 42 inch LG LCD tv, fully digital capable. They have the hospitals menu on screen and you have choices of movies television and there are 5 HD channel. All local. WOIO is not a choice.
> 
> 
> Point is modern equipment is being installed in these facilities. Analog should be gone in 3 years.
> 
> 
> I'm assuming its cable but because of the menu set up I can't say for certain.



Hook,


This was my argument here months ago here. New equipment will force the death of analog.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

Well this particular hospital was a brand new hospital. I was really impressed by the equipment they had. Even in their day surgery they had like 22" screens, HD ready.


----------



## Rbuchina

I toured the new TriPoint Medical Center in Concord a few weeks ago just before they opened for business. It was definitely a technology junkies' fix


Back on topic, Ive had some reception issue the last few days on some of my upper HD channels (near 500). It seems to be intermitent but its the first reception issure I've had with TWC in quite awhile.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17578827
> 
> 
> I toured the new TriPoint Medical Center in Concord a few weeks ago just before they opened for business. It was definitely a technology junkies' fix
> 
> 
> Back on topic, Ive had some reception issue the last few days on some of my upper HD channels (near 500). It seems to be intermitent but its the first reception issure I've had with TWC in quite awhile.
> 
> 
> Ray



Yep. That's where I was today.







It's where my wife still is.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm surprised they'd use HDTVs in a hospital.










Down here at Summa the patient rooms have old Magnavox CRT sets with D* feeding the distribution system(I've seen D* inserted ads on the cable stations). Some of the waiting room type areas have 19-25'' flat screens, although they are fed with the same analog service, stretched to fill the screen!


----------



## Argee

Why can't WBNX, channel 55 carry its syndicated shows in HD ala LEGEND OF THE SEEKER.

Seeker is one of the best looking shows on HD with all that on location outdoor scenery of New Zealand but Cleveland area viewers need to use Netflix streaming to see it in its HD glory.

Come on 55, act like a real station for a change.


----------



## nickdawg

TWC must've done something. Tonight as I watch WWE AM RAW on USAHD I noticed the picture is not as vomit inducing as it used to be. The posterizing on dark scenes is gone and the blocking/breakup is not as prevalent as it used to be.


It used to be worse than other channels, now it appears to be on the same level as the other channels. The bright/flashy intros look decent now.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/17579608
> 
> 
> Why can't WBNX, channel 55 carry its syndicated shows in HD ala LEGEND OF THE SEEKER.
> 
> Seeker is one of the best looking shows on HD with all that on location outdoor scenery of New Zealand but Cleveland area viewers need to use Netflix streaming to see it in its HD glory.
> 
> Come on 55, act like a real station for a change.



Once more, with feeling:


Local TV stations can't record HD syndication on existing equipment. They have to buy new stuff - I think we're talking tens of thousands of dollars worth. Some stations have this equipment, some don't. I believe WBNX is in the process of acquiring it, or will at some point fairly soon.


You can't just go down to Best Buy and get consumer recording equipment. The bandwidth taken by HD at the station level is MUCH larger, and the servers are priced appropriately. It's not like using a consumer DVR.


I'm sure insulting them won't get that equipment installed any quicker.


----------



## nickdawg

Just be happy that Legend Of The Seeker is shown in 4:3. The Office is even worse on WBNX because it's windowbox(see signature). I wish they would show that in 4:3, if they're not gonna do HD.


----------



## ErieMarty

are a lot of people still getting this ?


I am having a big time problem at night.. One minute I get the HD channel..then I switch to something else during commercial and come back to it and its " Not Available"..


This is really getting me upset. I would rather have less channels but ones that are available all the time then more channels but when I switch away I can't get back to them.


Last night was watching Shooter on TNT I think..then wanted to switch over to ESPN News in HD...and it first was available and then not for the next hour when I would switch over during commericials of the movie.....


this is BS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## abcmatt

To me the bigger travesty is WOIO/WUAB (and I believe WJW too because when they repeat their news at 1:00AM it's not in HD). These are big network affiliates, not a CW affiliate like WBNX. By the way, does anybody know how successful WBNX is? Without local news, I've always wondered how it does.


I think The Office is letterboxed because that's the way NBC distributes it.


----------



## nickdawg

WOIO and WUAB are the bigger jokes. WBNX has the least paid programming hours/week of all six major network affiliates. WUAB has the most paid programming hours/week of the six network affiliates(excluding 23 and 67). WOIO is not far behind WUAB. WBNX as a WB station was among the top 10 WB affiliates in the nation. Syndicated programming on WBNX has also rated higher than evening and late night newscasts on WOIO and WUAB.


People would rather watch George Lopez than 19 Action News. I 100% totally agree with those people.


----------



## JJkizak

Nineteen Action News isn't really NEWS, it is Chinese torture.

JJK


----------



## hdtvfan2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17585184
> 
> 
> To me the bigger travesty is WOIO/WUAB (and I believe WJW too because when they repeat their news at 1:00AM it's not in HD). These are big network affiliates, not a CW affiliate like WBNX. By the way, does anybody know how successful WBNX is? Without local news, I've always wondered how it does.
> 
> 
> I think The Office is letterboxed because that's the way NBC distributes it.



The Syndicated version of the Office is available in HD but it's up to the affiliate to carry it.


----------



## Michael P 2341

I thought you might appreciate this You Tube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt1tEPeKXQU


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17589660
> 
> 
> I thought you might appreciate this You Tube clip:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt1tEPeKXQU



First bird is a Blue and Gold Macaw. I have one. Second is a Black Palm Cockatoo. And the third is a Rose Breasted Cockatoo (Galah), common as pigeons in Australia.


And no matter how hard I try I can't even remotely come up with anything to keep us on target concerning local television and TWC.










I did enjoy the video. Thanks Michael.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> On or after December 15, 2009:
> 
> 
> NBA TV will be added to the Digital Basic Tier. NBA TV HD will be available to customers who subscribe to either Digital Basic Tier or Sports Tier. Tennis Channel HD, College Sports TV and NHL Network HD will be available to customers who subscribe to the Sports Tier.



Who gives a flying .... The 5 people who subscribe to the ripoff sports tier get 3 HD channels.


I'd like to know what happened to the other stuff TWC was supposed to add? I was looking forward to Fuse HD and IFC HD. Plus I'd like to see the Viacom suite of channels, but as of now no TWC system has it.


Oh well, I guess this is to be expected. Now that all the good, in demand channels have been added, it's not as exciting anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17604967
> 
> 
> Who gives a flying .... The 5 people who subscribe to the ripoff sports tier get 3 HD channels.
> 
> 
> I'd like to know what happened to the other stuff TWC was supposed to add? I was looking forward to Fuse HD and IFC HD. Plus I'd like to see the Viacom suite of channels, but as of now no TWC system has it.
> 
> 
> Oh well, I guess this is to be expected. Now that all the good, in demand channels have been added, it's not as exciting anymore.



Happy Thanksgiving nickdawg. This is your own personal turkey of a HD gift.


I'm sure that many people who subscribe to the NHL are thrilled to get the games in HD. And its absolutely correct that TW provide it since On Demand makes it available at no additional cost.


Let me ask you and everybody else a question. Best Buy is having a Black Friday sale on TiVo. $99 with purchase of a HD tv or $199 for a TiVo HD alone. This is $50 less then what I last paid for it. Am I eligible for this price? I think I am. I'm going down there tomorrow.


IF I pull this off my total cost for the TiVo HD and 1 TB hard drive down to a whopping cost of fifty eight cents.


Also I want to mention that TiVo is trying to bring us On Demand. Don't know when this will happen. But I know that's a big deal for many people.


----------



## nickdawg

Yeah, I really don't have a problem with the NHL. Considering people spend over $100 for the NHL sports package they should get the HD version. But the Tennis Channel? Is this a joke? We don't have SPIKETV, WGN HD. But the Tennis Channel?










Does Best Buy have some kind of price match thing? If you already bought the Tivo I get the feeling you're SOL.










See, I'll bet that Tito that does VOD will be the series 4. Since this stupid tuning adapter thing for SDV is bad enough, I don't see how they would be able to pull VOD. Sounds like a disaster.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17605261
> 
> 
> Does Best Buy have some kind of price match thing? If you already bought the Tivo I get the feeling you're SOL.



Turns out I am SOL on this deal. According to Best Buy's Price Match Policy Exempt Items:


Items that are limited-quantity, out of stock, open-box, clearance, Outlet Center, refurbished/used, and *items for sale Thanksgiving day through the Saturday after Thanksgiving.*


It's OK though I did save 50.00 since they had dropped the price already.


As far as On Demand goes, it may or may not happen. I'm hearing this was discussed a while back and no forward progress has been made. Still we haven't received an update for sometime so we are about due. It could be in the next update and may have nothing to do with the tuner adapter. I really don't care myself, I never use the feature anyway.


----------



## schandorsky

Nothing to be thankful for here in Amherst. Still waiting Time Warner!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17607216
> 
> 
> Nothing to be thankful for here in Amherst. Still waiting Time Warner!



I feel for you. I don't understand what's taking them so long at this point. I guessed mid November, looks like December now for sure.


----------



## MediaObsessions

I got a Thanksgiving Day present as well. My Tuning Adapter died... got the dreaded "8 flashes" of death. A buddy of mine just had his die last week. Anyone know if I can revive it with a "hit" from the customer service? Or will it take a truck roll and swap out? If so, this will be box #3... too bad because this one has been rock solid for about 2 months...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/17609513
> 
> 
> I got a Thanksgiving Day present as well. My Tuning Adapter died... got the dreaded "8 flashes" of death. A buddy of mine just had his die last week. Anyone know if I can revive it with a "hit" from the customer service? Or will it take a truck roll and swap out? If so, this will be box #3... too bad because this one has been rock solid for about 2 months...



I've had the 8 flashes and a pause probably at least 6 times. It does mean that the box is bricked but it is not a kiss of death.


Call customer service. They will moe then likely connect you with cable card services. They will then send you two hits and then you will see the light stop flashing. Sometimes it goes right to a steady green light but most times I had to push the on button and then you have a steady green light. If you go o live tv you should see an acquiring channels message.


I've even had this fixed by a regular CSR. A truck roll is definitely not necessary.


----------



## hookbill

I'm sorry if this is off topic let me apologize in advance. Many of you are use to seeing my signature saying "Proud Flock Leader of 10 Parrots." One of them died today and I have a couple of others that only have a few years left. I don't feel like having a count down. Everybody should know why hookbill is my nickname by now and if they are new they can ask.


Probably when my smaller birds pass I have at least 6 that are going to out live me.


So I'm a bit sad today but thought I would mention why I made the change after so many years.


Back to Time Warner. Hope you all have a good holiday.


----------



## awyeah

Hook - sorry to hear about that.


In TWC news... digital cable seems to be having a lot of issues today, and Time Warner is apparently aware of it - but as usual, no real information is being provided. Does anyone have the lowdown on what's happening and when it might be fixed?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/17613191
> 
> 
> Hook - sorry to hear about that.
> 
> 
> In TWC news... digital cable seems to be having a lot of issues today, and Time Warner is apparently aware of it - but as usual, no real information is being provided. Does anyone have the lowdown on what's happening and when it might be fixed?



What's it doing wrong? I haven't been looking at it today but what channels are having issues?


----------



## awyeah

It appears (after only a cursory glance) that it's just the SDV channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/17613429
> 
> 
> It appears (after only a cursory glance) that it's just the SDV channels.




Well I took a glance at 3 SDV channels. 438 450 and 483. Didn't see any problems.


----------



## nickdawg

Everything is working fine here. But I did have all the channels out on Tuesday night, except for the analog channels.


----------



## tjs70

SDV is locking up again in Cleveland







Hopefully they fix this quickly!


----------



## awyeah

Yeah it's been on and off all day. I'm getting tired of TWC!


----------



## nickdawg

Not a SDV channel but *USAHD* FXCKED UP at the very end of Monk tonight. I almost set the 8300HDC on fire and called TWC to cancel immediately. Right in the huge climax scene it went dark. Then it came back on for the crappy show at 10pm and the picture was still breaking up.


So it looks I'm gonna be watching Monk again tonight at 12. This time on the analog channel, since it's the only thing that actually works!!







Looks like USA HD is going back on my banned channel list once Monk ends.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17614387
> 
> 
> Not a SDV channel but *USAHD* FXCKED UP at the very end of Monk tonight. I almost set the 8300HDC on fire and called TWC to cancel immediately. Right in the huge climax scene it went dark. Then it came back on for the crappy show at 10pm and the picture was still breaking up.
> 
> 
> So it looks I'm gonna be watching Monk again tonight at 12. This time on the analog channel, since it's the only thing that actually works!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like USA HD is going back on my banned channel list once Monk ends.



As much as I hate to defend TW you can't say it was their fault. There are many things that can cause what you describe. Sunspots, something with USA HD and maybe even the SA 8300,


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17614462
> 
> 
> As much as I hate to defend TW you can't say it was their fault. There are many things that can cause what you describe. Sunspots, something with USA HD and maybe even the SA 8300,



It couldn't be. It's dark







, and the problem continued into the next hour. Whateverthefthe10pmshowonUSAis also had the picture breaking up. An hour earlier I was watching WEWS, picture was acting up on that channel too. Funny thing is I had an antenna TV on WEWS at the same time, no problems there at all. Cable sucks!!


----------



## MediaObsessions

Just an FYI...


The 8 flashes of death problem on the tuning adapter corrected itself without a need to call TWC or a truckroll. I can only imagine why it happened, why it was corrected, or when it will happen again...


----------



## schandorsky

For those people living in North Ridgeville, Bay Village, Elyria, Amherst etc. I just had a tech swap out a box I was having trouble with. So I ask him when we were going to start to receive the new HD channels. He said they were originally told the end of October and now he has no idea when they will start.


----------



## shooter21198

I was watching the backyard brawl on ESPN2 HD non SDV channel and that had terrible breakups as did the SDV channels


----------



## shooter21198

FSN Ohio apparently shows more than Cavs games in HD

Oklahoma State - Okalahoma is on right now but the guide data shows HD Promo


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17617032
> 
> 
> FSN Ohio apparently shows more than Cavs games in HD
> 
> Oklahoma State - Okalahoma is on right now but the guide data shows HD Promo



I just checked TiVo's guide at zap2it.com. It also says HD Promo.


Strange.


----------



## hookbill

Has anyone else noticed that we haven't heard from Vchat20? I went back page by page and he hasn't posted in a month.


Last post he made had to do with QAM line up. Just kind of odd....


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah, somehow AVSforum's email updates haven't been keeping me posted on this thread until I happened to pop in today.


But in addition that I have finally cut off all ties to Time Warner due to them pulling a fast one in the billing department. So we're in the middle of a transition and moving to CenturyLink (ex-Embarq which was ex-Sprint) for phone+DSL (Can get 10mbit/896k service for around the same cost as Time Warner's 7mb/512k bundled) and once the money is available to put in a deposit we'll be bundling Dish service through them as well.


So at this point in time as far as TV is concerned Time Warner has come out and disconnect the cable completely (no basic or Clear QAM channels). Thankfully my antenna situation is good enough now I can cleanly get 21, 23, 27, 33, and 45 and what shows not on the locals I just torrent and play back through my softmodded Wii. This until the Dish situation comes around.


I'll still hang around though to poke fun at TWC-NEO customers holding out for them to get stuff fixed. Should be fun to spectate now at least.


----------



## hookbill

Good. I'm glad you left. Not that you left here, that you left TW. Everybody should leave any cable, they all suck.


However I do not share your enthusiasm for that thieving Dish Network. I'll never forgive them for stealing TiVo's copyright DVR. Or at least part of it.


----------



## Vchat20

As long as it's not thievery from my pocket, I'm happy.







And they come out a bit cheaper than DirecTV anyway for the channel package we'd need (that and the dual-TV dvr is a plus. Can record all my shows and watch them in my bedroom later without needing another box). And I can buy the extra OTA module for the box for a total of 2 Sat tuners+2 OTA tuners. So not all that bad of an upgrade from Time Warner for less money at that.


----------



## hookbill

Just to have the pure digital quality is worth it. Digital cable sucks pq wise next to satellite digital.


Point is more people should be putting the screws to cable. I'd have never had cable if it wasn't for the line of site issue. You'll be much happier I'm sure.


----------



## nickdawg

Oooooh, Dish Network.







I had a bad enough time with D*, I'd never go sat again. Plus Dish Network's equipment looks like crap. If they use the box they show in the commercial, the thing looks 10 years old compared to the SA8300!!










Ideally, the best TV would be TV that is free. But that's not always practical. Like last night when I was pissed and wanted to cancel TWC about that problem at the end of Monk. Well if I did that, I wouldn't get to see the Monk finale.










Think of the cable company as drug dealers. You can either quit, or you can keep feeding your addiction with an overpriced product.


----------



## tjs70

Another fun evening with TW!!!! Good thing I have DirectTV as well! Unbelievable. Itjust keeps getting worse not better.


All SDV out including Cavs game!


I think we should all get November Free since TWC SDV is obviously an experiment!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17618910
> 
> 
> Another fun evening with TW!!!! Good thing I have DirectTV as well! Unbelievable. Itjust keeps getting worse not better.
> 
> 
> All SDV out including Cavs game!
> 
> 
> I think we should all get November Free since TWC SDV is obviously an experiment!



Funny. I've had no problem with SDV at all this week.


Don't know if you're serious with the sdv experiment comment. Its really a long story but suffice to say that only applies to TW NEO. SDV seems to work well. In other areas.


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17618962
> 
> 
> Funny. I've had no problem with SDV at all this week.
> 
> 
> Don't know if you're serious with the sdv experiment comment. Its really a long story but suffice to say that only applies to TW NEO. SDV seems to work well. In other areas.



No, I know. I have Friends in Rochester and it works quite well. Just seems to be an experiment here. Must have something to do with being a legacy Adelphia area. It is the only reasonable explanation. Hopefully they figure it out soon.


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17618981
> 
> 
> No, I know. I have Friends in Rochester and it works quite well. Just seems to be an experiment here. Must have something to do with being a legacy Adelphia area. It is the only reasonable explanation. Hopefully they figure it out soon.



It's so bad this time that the Time warner number is ringing busy!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17618988
> 
> 
> It's so bad this time that the Time warner number is ringing busy!



Hmmm. It seems to happen frequently during holiday weekends.


Rochester has had SDV for quite some time. And you're right about it being an Adelphia hangover. Combine that and ex Comcast and you end up with what you're experiencing. We had a similar thing happened around Independence Day. Some people had no problems others did. Hope it stays away from my house.


----------



## nickdawg

I haven't had any SDV problems lately.







I've just had problems with linear channels like USAHD and even WEWHD last night.


----------



## G3VIZIO

I'm in University Heights, OH. Time Warner ... Most of the HD channels have been coming and going for the past few weeks. Luckily I made it through the Cav's game and it froze up during the interviews. I think the channels above 436 are usually blacking out and I get a notice that "This channel is currently not available". What the heck is going on?


----------



## G3VIZIO

Oh..and why don't we just get through an evening of TV before we add features like "Watching the show from the beginning"


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/17619569
> 
> 
> I'm in University Heights, OH. Time Warner ... Most of the HD channels have been coming and going for the past few weeks. Luckily I made it through the Cav's game and it froze up during the interviews. I think the channels above 436 are usually blacking out and I get a notice that "This channel is currently not available". What the heck is going on?




I'm not going to go into detail on this because its well documented in this thread but the readers digest version is they are having issues in certain areas with Switched Digital Video in certain areas. I'm not suggesting you read the entire thread but take a glance back a few pages and you should have an idea of what the issue is.


----------



## G3VIZIO

Thanks...I haven't been on here for a while and assumed it's already been hashed over..


----------



## bassguitarman

Sunspots are very low or non existant these days.

I had the same problem with Monk also a movie recorded overnight on a SDV channel.

Seemed to clear up yesterday.


----------



## schandorsky

Time Warner is messing around in the Elyria area again. No ESPN HD, no ESPN2 HD, no TNT HD, no TBSHD since 3 o'clock.

Not only that we don't get the 36 HD channels that the rest of northeast Ohio is getting, we just lost our more.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17617491
> 
> 
> Good. I'm glad you left. Not that you left here, that you left TW. Everybody should leave any cable, they all suck.
> 
> 
> However I do not share your enthusiasm for that thieving Dish Network. I'll never forgive them for stealing TiVo's copyright DVR. Or at least part of it.



That's a matter of opinion. Just because some slick lawyers got a judge to rule in their favor does not make it a fact. If those lawyers were around at the turn of the (last) century Ford would have been suing General Motors for making automobiles.


Did Tivo have a product on the market in 1999? Dish Network had the Dishplayer, the first device that recorded digital TV onto a hard drive for later playback or for pausing live TV. Tivo's devices recorded analog TV signals, digitizing them for recording onto a hard drive. Dish Network's DVR's takes an already digital medium and stores it on a hard drive. Once on a hard drive the "trick plays" are the same.


If you are really interested in the case, I can provide a link to the DBS forum where the matters in the case are being discussed.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17626220
> 
> 
> Sunspots are very low or non existant these days.
> 
> I had the same problem with Monk also a movie recorded overnight on a SDV channel.
> 
> Seemed to clear up yesterday.



Sun Spots would also affect all delivery systems, satellite, cable and OTA.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17611750
> 
> 
> I'm sorry if this is off topic let me apologize in advance. Many of you are use to seeing my signature saying "Proud Flock Leader of 10 Parrots." One of them died today and I have a couple of others that only have a few years left. I don't feel like having a count down. Everybody should know why hookbill is my nickname by now and if they are new they can ask.
> 
> 
> Probably when my smaller birds pass I have at least 6 that are going to out live me.
> 
> 
> So I'm a bit sad today but thought I would mention why I made the change after so many years.
> 
> 
> Back to Time Warner. Hope you all have a good holiday.



You have my sympathies. I know what you are going through. I just lost 2 of my cats one day apart, both dying at home. One was unexpected, both were 13 years old. At least you still have the rest of the flock. I've been giving the rest of my cats more attention since the passing of their "brother & sister".


And just to get TW into the message, do they carry Animal Planet HD yet?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17630331
> 
> 
> 
> And just to get TW into the message, do they carry Animal Planet HD yet?



As a matter of fact Animal Planet is in HD. And thanks.


----------



## nickdawg

Somewhere in Northeast Ohio there is a shark. And TWC is jumping over it.







Now I'm having more problems with non SDV channels than SDV channels. On Friday USAHD went out around 10pm. I was watching the Monk marathon on Sunday, couldn't even make it through one episode without the picture freezing and breaking up. Looks like I will be viewing the Monk finale in windowbox analog.











Tonight on TBSHD at 12:30am, the screen just froze.


USA and TBS are both non SDV channels. So TWC is so pathetic they now are incapable of delivering linear SDV channels without problems? Has TWC gone so far in sucking that they're now turned inside out and down is up and up is down? SDV works and linear channels don't? And I see in the posts above other non SDV channels are not working in other areas too.


Is TWC so desperate to let us 'start over' a show that we cannot watch it live anymore?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17631860
> 
> 
> Is TWC so desperate to let us 'start over' a show that we cannot watch it live anymore?



This surprises you? With Startover you can no longer FFW through commercials so the mere thought of forcing you into watching the Startover feeds makes them grin ear to ear.


And before anyone says I am reading too much into it, I will bet you my year's salary that SOME exec at TW has thought of this already and is thinking of some way to make it happen.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17632421
> 
> 
> This surprises you? With Startover you can no longer FFW through commercials so the mere thought of forcing you into watching the Startover feeds makes them grin ear to ear.
> 
> 
> And before anyone says I am reading too much into it, I will bet you my year's salary that SOME exec at TW has thought of this already and is thinking of some way to make it happen.



Even TiVo is getting to be more and more like big brother. They sent us a message saying that they intend to user even more of our viewing data for marketing purposes.


Funny you should mention the commercials. I volunteered to do surveys for TiVo from time to time (You may win 50,000.00 Yeah right) and in almost every one of those surveys the question comes up "What do you do when a commercial comes on?" Um, yeah, right I sit and watch it.


Actually since start over is exactly that why should you be able to ff through commercials? If you want to do that there's this thing called a DVR....for now anyway.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Hookbill, my condolences on the loss of one of your birds. It's as much a member of the family as anyone else.


We now return to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress.


----------



## schandorsky

I don't get it. No audio on the Disney HD channel again. This has been going on for the past couple of months, it comes and goes. I had the service tech change out the box and rebooted countless times. Anybody have any ideas.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17647183
> 
> 
> I don't get it. No audio on the Disney HD channel again. This has been going on for the past couple of months, it comes and goes. I had the service tech change out the box and rebooted countless times. Anybody have any ideas.



I'm kind of thinking this was part of my S3 dying but frequently I would lose audio for no apparent reason on almost any channel. The fix was simply jump back 30 seconds and that would eliminate the problem. This would require a DVR of course.


----------



## nickdawg

So I take it TWC isn't going to ass any more channels anytime soon(other than that sports crap)? I remember DUSE and IFC being promised back in October or November. I kinda looked forward to those channels. Also, I believe NYC is getting or has WGN HD. I don't see why TWC can't add those three now. Something to shut us up as we long for the Viacom suite.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/17632421
> 
> 
> This surprises you? With Startover you can no longer FFW through commercials so the mere thought of forcing you into watching the Startover feeds makes them grin ear to ear.
> 
> 
> And before anyone says I am reading too much into it, I will bet you my year's salary that SOME exec at TW has thought of this already and is thinking of some way to make it happen.



Actually what I meant by that is the channels that used to work seem to be more fncked up ever since Start Over began. TBS HD over the past few days acts worse than a SDV channel used to. I missed part of a Curb Your Enthusiasm because of freezing after HBO became Start Over.


But your thoughts don't surprise me at all. I wouldn't be surprised if one day that "network DVR" that got a cable company sued actually exists. I think the trade off with the copyright holders(media companies, networks) will be to disable fast forward. That way viewers have to watch the commercials and the networks still make money.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17647183
> 
> 
> I don't get it. No audio on the Disney HD channel again. This has been going on for the past couple of months, it comes and goes. I had the service tech change out the box and rebooted countless times. Anybody have any ideas.



In Mentor, Over the Thanksgiving weekend, I had no sound on the ABC Family HD channel. It came back Sunday sometime.


Ray


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17647324
> 
> 
> So I take it TWC isn't going to ass any more channels anytime soon(other than that sports crap)? I remember DUSE and IFC being promised back in October or November. I kinda looked forward to those channels. Also, I believe NYC is getting or has WGN HD. I don't see why TWC can't add those three now. Something to shut us up as we long for the Viacom suite.



You know there are people are where ticked when that "Sports Crap" wasn't added when they promised as well. They should be added moreso than Fuse(Do we really need a knock MTV in HD?), WGN(Great syndicated late 80's-early90's show's shown in 4:3 just like the original analog channel).


----------



## G3VIZIO

Most of the HD channels are off the air in Univeristy Hts. tonight..


----------



## schandorsky

Another week goes by and still nothing in Amherst (Elyria area). Hey Time Warner we are still waiting for our HD channels.

Checking our channel line on the Time Warner Cable website, we are 36 HD channels short of what's listed.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17655161
> 
> 
> Another week goes by and still nothing in Amherst (Elyria area). Hey Time Warner we are still waiting for our HD channels.
> 
> Checking our channel line on the Time Warner Cable website, we are 36 HD channels short of what's listed.



You are old Comcast right? I would have thought that after we (Mentor, old Comcast) recived our HD that Elyria would be soon to follow. They are probably two radically different systems between Mentor and Elyria.


We feel your pain.


Ray


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/17655335
> 
> 
> You are old Comcast right? I would have thought that after we (Mentor, old Comcast) recived our HD that Elyria would be soon to follow. They are probably two radically different systems between Mentor and Elyria.
> 
> 
> We feel your pain.
> 
> 
> Ray



I don't get either. We have had SDV for 2 month now, but they have not added the HD channels for some reason.

We are in a big area, which includes about about 8 cities, all hooked up to the same system (Old Comcast).

I talk to a Tech about 2 months ago and they were told then the end of October, talk to him again last week and now they have no date at all. I don't know what's going on with this.


----------



## Dweezilz

Hey guys, been out of the loop for a while. What's the latest on new HD channels on TWC? I know they said they'd have 100 HD channels in NEO before year end and 5 per month but they had 4 or 5 months there without anything new so they were behind on that promise. Are there any more scheduled before year end? I searched and couldn't find any updated list. I don't think I've seen NHL Network HD, Tennis Channel HD or CBS College Sports HD arrive yet. They were on that list from back in September.


----------



## G3VIZIO

The more they keep adding the less reliable they are.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G3VIZIO* /forum/post/17656280
> 
> 
> The more they keep adding the less reliable they are.



I guess it depends on where you are...been very reliable in Twinsburg since July or so. No real issues since they fixed the initial issues with the unavailable messages. At any rate, I was just looking for what they might have planned, not if they should or shouldn't add them.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/17656332
> 
> 
> I guess it depends on where you are...been very reliable in Twinsburg since July or so. No real issues since they fixed the initial issues with the unavailable messages. At any rate, I was just looking for what they might have planned, not if they should or shouldn't add them.



Corrrect. I'm not that far from Twinsberg and the last real huge problem we had was in July. We have been fortunate.


However in that same time span I've had are least 4 iissues with my tuner adapter. To TW's credit their CSRs are now better trained on how to fix these issues. Still it is a hassle Amanda. An tame an hour on the phone to fix.


We just have a effed up system. It needs a total overhaul.


----------



## kevin120




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17660182
> 
> 
> Corrrect. I'm not that far from Twinsberg and the last real huge problem we had was in July. We have been fortunate.
> 
> 
> However in that same time span I've had are least 4 iissues with my tuner adapter. To TW's credit their CSRs are now better trained on how to fix these issues. Still it is a hassle Amanda. An tame an hour on the phone to fix.
> 
> 
> We just have a effed up system. It needs a total overhaul.



three options they should do


1) add 8 more SDV qams for a total of 16 which most systems are now moving to


2) drop 10 analog and move sdv hd to linear


3) swap 750MHz SA gear 1GHz SA line gear.


im on a 870MHz motorola system that had rebuild from 750MHz GI line gear to 870MHz motorola line gear also they have added some 1GHz nodes.


so we have 51HD non SDV but they plan on sdv when iguide a28 launches.


they are moving 5 analogs to digital


truTV

Style

CMT

Abc Family

Oxygen


and adding

USA HD

CNBC HD

BRAVO HD

SYFY HD

Sleuth

cnbc world


for a total of 55 HD non SDV


----------



## shooter21198

Woke up today with a bunch of Please Wait... and 0 guide data


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17671929
> 
> 
> Woke up today with a bunch of Please Wait... and 0 guide data



Well, at least they were polite about it and said please.










I haven't turned on my televisions yet but I'm not concerned. My guide data doesn't come out of TW so it shouldn't have any problem for me.


When I get a chance I'll look at the SA 8300 and get back to you.


Checked the SA 8300 all guide data working normal and it was tuned to an SDV channel. But don't forget there are 3 territories now for TWC NEO and we may not even be in the same territory.


----------



## schandorsky

No audio on the Disney HD channel again. This cable company is driving me crazy with it's non quality product. If I only could switch to satellite.


----------



## shooter21198

8 Hours later I did a box reboot. Clicked the guide button and my box froze


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schandorsky* /forum/post/17672187
> 
> 
> No audio on the Disney HD channel again. This cable company is driving me crazy with it's non quality product. If I only could switch to satellite.



yeah no kidding i'm coming for twc in cincy and i never had the problems that i do here. its not even funny. i'd ditch it but i don't know if the apt i live in will allow satellite. time warner in cleveland sucks big time.


----------



## tprevett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/17679542
> 
> 
> yeah no kidding i'm coming for twc in cincy and i never had the problems that i do here. its not even funny. i'd ditch it but i don't know if the apt i live in will allow satellite. time warner in cleveland sucks big time.



I thought there was A Federal Law preventing landlords from preventing you from putting satellite in...? I could be wrong, but I remember something to that effect..


----------



## hookbill

Information on Installing Satellite TV in condos, townhomes, and rental property:


As directed by Congress in section 207 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the Federal Communications Commission adopted the Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule concerning governmental and nongovernmental restrictions on viewers' ability to receive video programming signals from direct broadcast satellites ("DBS"), multichannel multipoint distribution (wireless cable) providers ("MMDS"), and television broadcast stations ("TVBS").


The rule is cited as 47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 and has been in effect since October 14, 1996. It prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to- home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.


The rule applies to viewers who place video antennas on property that they own and that is within their exclusive use or control, including condominium owners and cooperative owners who have an area where they have exclusive use, such as a balcony or patio, in which to install the antenna. The rule applies to townhomes and manufactured homes, as well as to single family homes.


The rule allows local governments, community associations and landlords to enforce restrictions that do not impair, as well as restrictions needed for safety or historic preservation. In addition, under some circumstances, the availability of a central or common antenna can be used by a community association or landlord to restrict the installation of individual antennas. In addition, the rule does not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association, or jointly by condominium or cooperative owners. Therefore, restrictions on antennas installed in common areas are enforceable.


On November 20, 1998, the Commission amended the rule so that it will also apply to rental property where the renter has exclusive use, such as a balcony or patio. The effective date of the amended rule is January 22, 1999.


This fact sheet provides general answers to questions that may arise about the implementation of the rule. For further information or a copy of the rule, call the Federal Communications Commission at 888-CALLFCC (toll free) or (202) 418-7096.


Q: What types of antennas are covered by the rule?


A: The rule applies to the following types of video antennas:


(1) A "dish" antenna that is one meter (39.37") or less in diameter (or any size dish if located in Alaska) and is designed to receive direct broadcast satellite service, including direct-to-home satellite service.


(2) An antenna that is one meter or less in diameter or diagonal measurement and is designed to receive video programming services via MMDS (wireless cable). Such antennas may be mounted on "masts" to reach the height needed to establish line-of-sight contact with the transmitter. Masts higher than 12 feet above the roofline may be subject to local permitting requirements for safety purposes.


(3) An antenna that is designed to receive local television broadcast signals. Masts higher than 12 feet above the roofline may be subject to local permitting requirements.


Q: What types of restrictions are prohibited?


A: The rule prohibits restrictions that impair a viewer's ability to install, maintain, or use a video antenna. The rule applies to state or local laws or regulations, including zoning, land-use or building regulations, private covenants, homeowners' association rules, condominium or cooperative association restrictions, lease restrictions, or similar restrictions on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has an ownership or leasehold interest in the property. A restriction impairs if it: 1) unreasonably delays or prevents use of, 2) unreasonably increases the cost of, or 3) precludes a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal from, one of these antennas. The rule does not prohibit legitimate safety restrictions or restrictions designed to preserve designated or eligible historic or prehistoric properties, provided the restriction is no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the safety or preservation purpose.


Q: What types of restrictions unreasonably delay or prevent viewers from using an antenna?


A: A local restriction that prohibits all antennas would prevent viewers from receiving signals, and is prohibited by the Commission's rule. Procedural requirements can also unreasonably delay installation, maintenance or use of an antenna covered by this rule. For example, local regulations that require a person to obtain a permit or approval prior to installation create unreasonable delay and are generally prohibited. Permits or prior approval necessary to serve a legitimate safety or historic preservation purpose may be permissible.


Q: What is an unreasonable expense?


A: Any requirement to pay a fee to the local authority for a permit to be allowed to install an antenna would be unreasonable because such permits are generally prohibited. It may also be unreasonable for a local government, community association or landlord to require a viewer to incur additional costs associated with installation. Things to consider in determining the reasonableness of any costs imposed include: (1) the cost of the equipment and services, and (2) whether there are similar requirements for comparable objects, such as air conditioning units or trash receptacles. For example, restrictions cannot require that relatively unobtrusive DBS antennas be screened by expensive landscaping. A requirement to paint an antenna so that it blends into the background against which it is mounted would likely be acceptable, provided it will not interfere with reception or impose unreasonable costs.


Q: What restrictions prevent a viewer from receiving an acceptable quality signal?


A: For antennas designed to receive analog signals, such as TVBS, a requirement that an antenna be located where reception would be impossible or substantially degraded is prohibited by the rule. However, a regulation requiring that antennas be placed where they are not visible from the street would be permissible if this placement does not prevent reception of an acceptable quality signal or impose unreasonable expense or delay. For example, if installing an antenna in the rear of the house costs significantly more than installation on the side of the house, then such a requirement would be prohibited. If, however, installation in the rear of the house does not impose unreasonable expense or delay or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal, then the restriction is permissible and the viewer must comply.


The acceptable quality signal standard is different for devices designed to receive digital signals, such as DBS antennas, digital MMDS antennas and digital television ("DTV") antennas. For these antennas to receive an acceptable quality signal, a DBS antenna or other digital reception antenna covered by the rule must be installed where it has an unobstructed, direct view of the satellite or other device from which video programming service is received. Unlike analog antennas, digital antennas, even in the presence of sufficient over-the-air signal strength, will at times provide no picture or sound unless they are placed and oriented for optimal reception.


Q: Are all restrictions prohibited?


A: No, many restrictions are permitted. Clearly-defined, legitimate safety restrictions are permitted even if they impair installation, maintenance or use because they are necessary to protect public safety. Examples of valid safety restrictions include fire codes preventing people from installing antennas on fire escapes; restrictions requiring that a person not place an antenna within a certain distance from a power line; electrical code requirements to properly ground the antenna; and installation requirements that describe the proper method to secure an antenna. The safety reason for the restriction must be written in the text, preamble or legislative history of the restriction, or in a document that is readily available to antenna users, so that a person wanting to install an antenna knows what restrictions apply. Safety restrictions cannot discriminate between objects that are comparable in size and weight and pose the same or a similar safety risk as the antenna that is being restricted. The safety restriction also cannot impose a more burdensome requirement than is needed to ensure safety.


Restrictions necessary for historic preservation may also be permitted even if they impair installation, maintenance or use of the antenna. To qualify for this exemption, the property may be any prehistoric or historic district, site, building, structure or object included in, or eligible for inclusion on, the National Register of Historic Places. In addition, restrictions necessary for historic preservation must be no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the historic preservation goal. They must also be imposed and enforced in a non-discriminatory manner, as compared to other modern structures that are comparable in size and weight and to which local regulation would normally apply.


Q: Whose antenna restrictions are prohibited?


A: The rule applies to restrictions imposed by local governments, including zoning, land-use or building regulations; by homeowner, townhome, condominium or cooperative association rules, including deed restrictions, covenants, by-laws and similar restrictions; and by manufactured housing (mobile home) park owners and landlords, including lease restrictions. The rule only applies to restrictions on property where the viewer has an ownership or leasehold interest and exclusive use or control.


Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?


A: The rule applies to viewers who live in a multiple dwelling unit building, such as a condominium or apartment building, if the viewer has an exclusive use area in which to install the antenna. "Exclusive use" means an area of the property that only you, and persons you permit, may enter and use to the exclusion of other residents. For example, your condominium or apartment may include a balcony, terrace, deck or patio that only you can use, and the rule applies to these areas. The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof, the hallways, the walkways or the exterior walls of a condominium or apartment building. Restrictions on antennas installed in these common areas are not covered by the Commission's rule.


Q: Does the rule apply to condominiums or apartment buildings if the antenna is installed so that it hangs over or protrudes beyond the balcony railing or patio wall?


A: The rule does not prohibit restrictions on antennas installed beyond the balcony or patio of a condominium or apartment unit if such installation is in, on, or over a common area. An antenna that extends out beyond the balcony or patio is usually considered to be in a common area that is not within the scope of the rule. Therefore, in most cases the rule does not apply to a condominium or rental apartment unit unless the antenna is installed wholly within the exclusive use area, such as the balcony or patio.


Q: Does the fact that management or the association has the right to enter these areas mean that the resident does not have exclusive use?


A: No. The fact that the building management or the association may enter an area for the purpose of inspection and/or repair does not mean that the resident does not have exclusive use of that area. Likewise, if the landlord or association regulates other uses of the exclusive use area (e.g., banning grills on balconies), that does not affect the viewer's rights under the Commission's rule. This rule permits persons to install video antennas on property over which the person has either exclusive use or exclusive control. Note, too, that nothing in this rule changes the landlord's or association's right to regulate use of exclusive use areas for other purposes. For example, if the lease prohibits antennas and flags on balconies, only the prohibition of antennas is eliminated by this rule; flags would still be prohibited.


Q: Does the rule apply to residents of rental property?


A: Yes. The Commission recently amended the rule, and the effective date of the amendment was January 22, 1999. Renters may install video antennas within their leasehold, which means inside the dwelling or on outdoor areas that are part of the tenant's rented space and which are under the exclusive use or control of the tenant. Typically, for apartments, these areas include balconies, balcony railings, and terraces. For rented single family homes or manufactured homes which sit on rented property, these areas include the home itself and patios, yards, gardens or other similar areas. If renters do not have access to these outside areas, the tenant may install the video antenna inside the rental unit. Renters are not required to obtain the consent of the landlord prior to installing a video antenna in these areas. The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof or the exterior walls of an apartment building.


Q: Are there restrictions that may be placed on residents of rental property?


A: Yes. A restriction necessary to prevent damage to leased property may be reasonable. For example, tenants could be prohibited from drilling holes through exterior walls or through the roof. However, a restriction designed to prevent ordinary wear and tear (e.g., marks, scratches, and minor damage to carpets, walls and draperies) would likely not be reasonable.


In addition, rental property is subject to the same protection and exceptions to the rule as owned property. Thus, a landlord may impose other types of restrictions that do not impair installation, maintenance or use under the rule. The landlord may also impose restrictions necessary for safety or historic preservation.


Q: If I live in a condominium, cooperative, or other type of residence where certain areas have been designated as "common," do these rules apply to me?


A: No, not if the only place you can install an antenna is on a common area, such as a walkway, hallway, community garden, exterior wall or the roof. However, a resident of these types of buildings may install the video antenna on a balcony, deck, patio, or other area where the individual resident has exclusive use.


Q: If my association, building management, landlord, or property owner provides a central antenna for video programming, may I install an individual video antenna?


A: Generally, the availability of a central antenna may allow the association, landlord, property owner, or other management entity to restrict the installation of video antennas by individuals. Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (1) the viewer receives the particular video programming service the viewer desires and could receive with an individual antenna (e.g., the viewer would be entitled to receive service from a specific DBS provider, not simply a DBS provider selected by the association); (2) the video reception in the viewer's home using the central antenna is as good as, or better than, than the quality the viewer could receive with an individual antenna; (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna; and (4) the requirement to use the central antenna instead of an individual antenna does not unreasonably delay the viewer's ability to receive video programming.


Q: May the association, landlord, building management or property owner restrict the installation of an individual video antenna because a central antenna will be available in the future?


A: It is not the intent of the Commission to deter or unreasonably delay the installation of individual antennas because a central antenna may become available. However, viewers could be required to remove individual antennas once a central antenna is available if the cost of removal is paid by the landlord or association and the viewer is reimbursed for the value of the antenna. Further, an individual who wants video programming other than that available through the central antenna should not be unreasonably delayed in obtaining the desired programming either through modifications to the central antenna, installation of an additional central antenna, or by using an individual antenna.


Q: I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?


A: Yes. If you own the whole townhouse, including the walls and the roof and the land under the building, then the rule applies just as it does for a single family home, and you may be able to put the antenna on the roof, the exterior wall, the backyard or any other place that is part of what you own. If the townhouse is a condominium, then the rule applies as it does for any other type of condominium, which means it applies only where you have an exclusive use area. If it is a condominium townhouse, you probably cannot use the roof or the exterior walls unless the condominium association gives you permission.


Q: I live in a condominium with a balcony, but I cannot receive a signal from the satellite because my balcony faces north. Can I use the roof?


A: No. The roof of a condominium is generally a common area, not an area reserved for an individual's exclusive use. If the roof is a common area, you may not use it unless the condominium association gives you permission.


Q: I live in a mobile home that I own but it is located in a park where I rent the lot. Am I covered by the FCC rule?


A: Yes. The rule applies if you install the antenna anywhere on the mobile or manufactured home that is owned by you. The rule also applies to antennas installed on the lot or pad that you rent, as well as to other areas that are under your exclusive use and control. However, the rule does not apply if you want to install the antenna in a common area or other area outside of what you rent.


Q: I want an antenna to receive a distant television signal. Does the rule apply to me?


A: No. The rule does not apply to television antennas used to receive a distant signal.


Q: I want to install an antenna for radio, amateur radio or internet service. Does the rule apply to me?


A: No. The rule only applies to antennas used for video reception. Antennas for AM/FM radio, amateur ("ham") radio or internet are not covered by this rule.


Q: I'm a board member of a homeowners' association, and we want to revise our restrictions so that they will comply with the FCC rule. Do you have guidelines you can send me?


A: We do not have sample guidelines because every community is different. We can send you the rule and the first and second Report and Order and the Order on Reconsideration, which will give you general guidance. Some communities have written restrictions that provide a prioritized list of placement preferences so that residents can see where the association wants them to install the antenna. The residents should comply with the placement preferences provided the preferred placement does not impose unreasonable delay or expense or preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.


Q: What restrictions are permitted if the antenna must be on a very tall mast to get a signal?


A: If the mast is more than 12 feet above the roof line, the local government, community association or landlord may require you to apply for a permit for safety reasons. If you meet the safety requirements, the permit should be granted.


Q: Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?


A: Nothing in Section 207 or the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property. The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it applies to residential property.


Q: What can a local government, association, or consumer do if there is a dispute over whether a particular restriction is valid?


A: Restrictions that impair installation, maintenance or use of the antennas covered by the rule are preempted (unenforceable) unless they are no more burdensome than necessary for the articulated legitimate safety purpose or for preservation of a designated or eligible historic site or district. If a viewer believes a restriction is preempted, but the local government, community association, or landlord disagrees, either the viewer or the restricting entity may file a Petition for Declaratory Ruling with the FCC or a court of competent jurisdiction. We encourage parties to attempt to resolve disputes prior to filing a petition. Often calling the FCC for information about how the rule works and applies in a particular situation can help to resolve the dispute. If a local government, community association, or landlord acknowledges that its restriction impairs and is preempted under the rule but can demonstrate "highly specialized or unusual" concerns, the restricting entity may apply to the Commission for a waiver of the rule.


Q: What is the procedure for filing a petition or requesting a waiver at the Commission?


A: Petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on all interested parties. For example, if a homeowners' association files a petition seeking a declaratory ruling that its restriction is not preempted and is seeking to enforce the restriction against a specific viewer, service must be made on that specific viewer. The homeowners' association will not be required to serve all other members of the association, but must provide reasonable, constructive notice of the proceeding to other residents whose interests may foreseeably be affected. This may be accomplished, for example, by placing notices in residents' mailboxes, by placing a notice on a community bulletin board, or by placing the notice in an association newsletter. If a local government seeks a declaratory ruling or a waiver from the Commission, the local government must take steps to afford reasonable, constructive notice to residents in its jurisdiction (e.g., by placing a notice in a local newspaper of general circulation). Finally, if a viewer files a petition or lawsuit challenging a local government's ordinance, an association's restriction, or a landlord's lease, the viewer must serve the local government, association or landlord, as appropriate.


All allegations of fact contained in petitions and related pleadings before the Commission must be supported by an affidavit signed by one or more persons who have actual knowledge of such facts. An original and two copies of all petitions and pleadings should be addressed to the Secretary, Federal Communications Commission, 445 12th Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20554, Attention: Cable Services Bureau.


Certificates of service and proof of constructive notice must be provided with a petition. In this regard, the petitioner should provide a copy of the notice and an explanation of where the notice was placed and how many people the notice might reasonably have reached.


Be sure to include the exact language of the restriction in question with the petition. General or hypothetical questions about the application or interpretation of the rule cannot be accepted as petitions.


Q: Can I continue to use my antenna while the petition or waiver request is pending?


A: Yes, unless the restriction being challenged or for which a waiver is sought is necessary for reasons of safety or historic preservation. Otherwise, the restriction cannot be enforced while the petition is pending.


Q: Who is responsible for showing that a restriction is enforceable?


A: When a conflict arises about whether a restriction is valid, the local government, community association, property owner, or management entity that is trying to enforce the restriction has the burden of proving that the restriction is valid. This means that no matter who questions the validity of the restriction, the burden will always be on the entity seeking to enforce the restriction to prove that the restriction is permitted under the rule or that it qualifies for a waiver.


Q: Can I be fined and required to remove my antenna immediately if the Commission determines that a restriction is valid?


A: You will have a minimum of 21 days to comply with an adverse ruling. If you remove your antenna during this period, in most cases you cannot be fined.


Q: Who do I call if my town, community association or landlord is enforcing an invalid restriction?


A: Call the Federal Communications Commission at (888) CALLFCC (888-225-5322), which is a toll-free number, or 202-418-7096, which is not toll-free. Some assistance may also be available from the direct broadcast satellite company, multichannel multipoint distribution service or television broadcast station whose service is desired.

http://www.myrateplan.com/sat/condos.php


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17680103
> 
> 
> MY NAME IS NOT BILL



(but you can call me tim misny) lol
























Speaking of Cincinnati, I've seen several TWC Cincinnati ads here lately. One of them was for Start Over and they said "Cincinnati Bell can't do that".


----------



## speedyd718

wow thanks for the info guys. i didn't there were laws in satellites favor.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/17684167
> 
> 
> wow thanks for the info guys. i didn't there were laws in satellites favor.



Been that way for a while and a lot of people aren't aware. That would include landlords too.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Check these slots on or about December 10th -


396 - Tennis HD

397 - CBS College Sports HD

398 - NHL Net HD

399 - NBA HD

650 - Showtime HD On Demand


As always your actual mileage may vary. Check the online guide for details.


----------



## hookbill

WEWS-HD is having problems. Or the Cable company is. Freezing and sound drop offs.


Thanks for the heads up on the new HD channels Cathode Kid. Unfortunately there is not one channel listed there that I care about. But it isn't all about me is it?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17690065
> 
> 
> WEWS-HD is having problems. Or the Cable company is. Freezing and sound drop offs.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the new HD channels Cathode Kid. Unfortunately there is not one channel listed there that I care about. But it isn't all about me is it?



I noticed that too. It also happened on WOIO. It's strange because the fuzzy analog channel from TWC works perfectly, but the HD channel doesn't. The analog channel is fed by the HD channel. TWC defies stupidity.


I also had trouble with WEWS through OTA. But I think the wind has some effect on that.


Where's FUSE and IFC gonna be? I saw one of those legal notices mentioning that IFC and FUSE would be added. And Showtime VOD, f**k me. Where's HBO HD VOD?


----------



## nickdawg

More like:


396 - SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE: To receive this channel call customer care at 1-877-772-2253

397 - SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE: To receive this channel call customer care at 1-877-772-2253

398 - SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE: To receive this channel call customer care at 1-877-772-2253

399 - SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE: To receive this channel call customer care at 1-877-772-2253

650 - SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE: To receive this channel call customer care at 1-877-772-2253


















Where are FUSE and IFC going? I saw one of those legal notices that had those two channels listed for sometime this month.










The other cool thing I noticed is TWC is not adding those channels in the 400s. They're leaving channels 471-476, 477, 479, 493-496 empty. Hopefully one day the channels in the Viacom suite will occupy those channel numbers. At least we can dream!


----------



## nickdawg

Here it is:


Paper: Akron Beacon Journal Legal Notices

Date: December 11, 2009


Time Warner Cable’s agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, but in order to comply with applicable regulations, we must inform you when an agreement is about to expire. The following agreements are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services/stations in the near future.


E!, Style, Halogen, Encore, Food Network, Fox Reality, Fox Soccer, Fox Sports Espanol, Fuel, FX, Speed, Starz, TruTV, Lifetime, WOIO, WUAB, WBNX and WAOH.


From time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned:


On or after December 13, 2009:


ACCTV/PIN will be dropped from the Shopping Tier; Dealz TV will be added to the Shopping Tier.


On or after December 15, 2009:


NBA TV will be added to the Digital Basic Tier. NBA TV HD will be available to customers who subscribe to either Digital Basic Tier or Sports Tier. Tennis Channel HD, College Sports TV and NHL Network HD will be available to customers who subscribe to the Sports Tier.

Showtime Too HD will be available to customers who subscribe to Showtime Too, The Movie Channel HD will be available to customers who subscribe to The Movie Channel and Encore HD will be available to customers who subscribe to Encore. *IFC HD and Fuse HD will be available to customers who subscribe to the Digital Basic Tier.*


----------



## schandorsky




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17689849
> 
> 
> Check these slots on or about December 10th -
> 
> 
> 396 - Tennis HD
> 
> 397 - CBS College Sports HD
> 
> 398 - NHL Net HD
> 
> 399 - NBA HD
> 
> 650 - Showtime HD On Demand
> 
> 
> As always your actual mileage may vary. Check the online guide for details.



Yea, everywhere but the Elyria area!


----------



## shooter21198

JUST REMEMBER ROLL OVER OR GET TOUGH


the fact that we might lose Lifetime oh my god.


CBS College Sports HD is the only one available without the greatest sports package ever(at least in Erie suburbs) until NBA TV drops down to digital basic.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17690233
> 
> 
> The other cool thing I noticed is TWC is not adding those channels in the 400s. They're leaving channels 471-476, 477, 479, 493-496 empty. Hopefully one day the channels in the Viacom suite will occupy those channel numbers. At least we can dream!



Noticed a few days ago that the channel guide no longer groups HBOHD, SHOHD, etc. together in the 400s - they only show up in the 600 range. Mildly irritating... It used to be a weekly "thing" to head to the 400 section where the HD movie channels were all together, then scan through the next week's worth of programming for things I wanted to record. Now I have to go through each channel separately since I can't view all of them on the screen at once.


Boo.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17689849
> 
> 
> Check these slots on or about December 10th -
> 
> 
> 396 - Tennis HD
> 
> 397 - CBS College Sports HD
> 
> 398 - NHL Net HD
> 
> 399 - NBA HD
> 
> 650 - Showtime HD On Demand
> 
> 
> As always your actual mileage may vary. Check the online guide for details.



These where in the 1800's tonight except Showtime. At least down here in Canton.


Right near the end of watching tonight's dvr'd Nip/Tuck and the cable box decides to go ahead and update it self. Why couldn't it wait until I was done?


----------



## hookbill

I notice some discrepancies from what Cathode Kid told us and the public announcement, i.e. Showtime On Demand HD v Showtime Too. Unless both are coming.


I'll put my money on Cathode Kid over a Time Warner announcement. He hasn't been wrong yet. Although he was a few days off on the last time there was suppose to be a change. Could the channels be right but not the date? Guess we will find out today. I haven't turned on a television yet.


----------



## bassguitarman

Big problems former Adelphia area Summit County, many channels appear frozen at headend. Like they are on pause.

Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17697136
> 
> 
> Big problems former Adelphia area Summit County, many channels appear frozen at headend. Like they are on pause.
> 
> Dave



I'm not that far from Summit County. Appears to be an issue with SDV. Other channels are coming in. I've got a grey screen on MLB HD. I no sooner type that and its back on.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17697136
> 
> 
> Big problems former Adelphia area Summit County, many channels appear frozen at headend. Like they are on pause.
> 
> Dave



I've seen that before. It's strange, the channels are either frozen or have pixellation on them. And this happens on analog channels. So they must originate in digital and TWC converts them to analog.


Only odd thing I saw tonight was black screen and loud fuzz noise on WOIO analog during the 7pm hour.


And whatever that stupid "software upgrade" last night was, my box turned on today set to 480i with the picture stretched to fill the screen. Isn't that great, if someone was nice enough to help someone use the proper outputs TWC erased that. Got some phone calls to make. Dammit.


----------



## nickdawg

All I want for Christmas is for the Browns to be sold again. Maybe then quality network programming wouldn't be interrupted so a 10000th rate high school football team's losing game can be aired instead. I'm so sick of this s**t. One week *WJWTF* dumped Hose for the clowns. Tonight *WKYSEE THE STUPIDITY* is dumping NBC. This time the canceled shows are not listed anywhere as being rebroadcast. Am I to assume that tonights Office, 30 Rock and Community are just not gonna be shown?


I'm gonna have a bake sale so I can raise some money to give to WUAB. Next time BS rules mandate the Clowns be shown on local TV, I'll help WUAB buy the rights. Hell, it would probly be an improvement over that garbage called (NOT) My Network TV.


----------



## shooter21198

TWC is really stupid

I receive CBS College Sports SD, but they tell me I have to pay for the HD channel.

I receive NBA TV HD, but they tell me I have to pay for the SD channel.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17697408
> 
> 
> TWC is really stupid
> 
> I receive CBS College Sports SD, but they tell me I have to pay for the HD channel.
> 
> I receive NBA TV HD, but they tell me I have to pay for the SD channel.



If TWC was smart they would include the HD versions of the sports tier channels in the HDTV Tier. The HDTV Tier costs more than the sports tier. Plus adding a few new channels like CBS Sports and NHL Network would give more "bang" for the buck since they dropped HD Net and HD Net Movies. Only reason why I bother to jeep the HDTV Tier is Universal HD.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17697297
> 
> 
> All I want for Christmas is for the Browns to be sold again. Maybe then quality network programming wouldn't be interrupted so a 10000th rate high school football team's losing game can be aired instead. I'm so sick of this s**t. One week *WJWTF* dumped Hose for the clowns. Tonight *WKYSEE THE STUPIDITY* is dumping NBC. This time the canceled shows are not listed anywhere as being rebroadcast. Am I to assume that tonights Office, 30 Rock and Community are just not gonna be shown?
> 
> 
> I'm gonna have a bake sale so I can raise some money to give to WUAB. Next time BS rules mandate the Clowns be shown on local TV, I'll help WUAB buy the rights. Hell, it would probly be an improvement over that garbage called (NOT) My Network TV.



Sorry Nickdawg


This was the best football game I have ever seen. Nothing on NBCs regular programming could have possibly beat out this showing of football rivally.


Ray


----------



## shooter21198

Well, I know most of you are Browns fans, and I am a steelers fan. I congratulate you on a victory. Not all steelers fans are arrogant.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17699158
> 
> 
> Well, I know most of you are Browns fans, and I am a steelers fan. I congratulate you on a victory. Not all steelers fans are arrogant.



Well there you are nickdawg. The Brown's won against Pittsburgh. I'll bet WKYC won as well. This is a huge rivalry and I di t blame WKYC for turning down yNBC's rather pathetic line up for that game.


----------



## abcmatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17697297
> 
> 
> All I want for Christmas is for the Browns to be sold again. Maybe then quality network programming wouldn't be interrupted so a 10000th rate high school football team's losing game can be aired instead. I'm so sick of this s**t. One week *WJWTF* dumped Hose for the clowns. Tonight *WKYSEE THE STUPIDITY* is dumping NBC. This time the canceled shows are not listed anywhere as being rebroadcast. Am I to assume that tonights Office, 30 Rock and Community are just not gonna be shown?
> 
> 
> I'm gonna have a bake sale so I can raise some money to give to WUAB. Next time BS rules mandate the Clowns be shown on local TV, I'll help WUAB buy the rights. Hell, it would probly be an improvement over that garbage called (NOT) My Network TV.



I checked my programming guide and the 4 comedies are airing from 2-4 AM Saturday night/Sunday morning with Jay Leno airing tonight at 2 or 3 AM.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/17702856
> 
> 
> I checked my programming guide and the 4 comedies are airing from 2-4 AM Saturday night/Sunday morning with Jay Leno airing tonight at 2 or 3 AM.



Thanks.







They must've changed that today. When I looked last night paid programming was listed. Even title search didn't have any results.


They've done that before. Over the summer I remember seeing a random L&O episode after SNL at 1AM. Of course now there's some 'Brian Night Show' crap on so everyone gets pushed into the wee hours.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17697408
> 
> 
> TWC is really stupid
> 
> I receive CBS College Sports SD, but they tell me I have to pay for the HD channel.
> 
> I receive NBA TV HD, but they tell me I have to pay for the SD channel.



This is TWC, where they say "unlike satellite" we don't make you pay twice for the same programming to get HD.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> TWC Reached an Agreement With Viacom For More HD Stations
> 
> 
> TWC Milwaukee should be getting these stations around January:
> 
> 
> These are the channels listed under "New Services cannot be accessed without a Cable Card...." on the website.
> 
> 
> But look at what else may be coming!!!!!
> 
> 
> MTV HD, Comedy Central HD, Spike HD, BET HD, Nickelodeon HD, VH1 HD, CMT HD.
> 
> 
> Comedy Central HD and Spike HD!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Maybe by or before January I would guess!!!!
> 
> 
> Jack



Interesting news right here


----------



## tjs70

All SDV channels are out again!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17708713
> 
> 
> All SDV channels are out again!



Well not all but a few are down. Had another issue with my tuner adapter and the message at Twcable was that there were about 5 Channels were down.


I was put on hold waiting for the cable card department and fixed the tuner adapter myself.


----------



## tjs70

Actually on Lakeside They are all out. This has become the norm on weekends. Seems to be a node capacity issue. Hoping TWC figures this out soon.


----------



## Michael P 2341

My Father-in-law has COX. He might be getting a new TV soon. What channel numbers are in clear QAM on COX? I know they have some because I was playing around with an SDTV in the waiting room while my car was being worked on. I scanned and found dozens of QAM channels but most were blank (too bad the scan function can't decipher between clear and encrypted QAM).


BTW the set I played around with was on a "lifeline basic" feed (only analog chs 2-13 come in, yet I was watching several clear QAM channels (the locals and a barker channel). What I need to know are the channel numbers. I figure it would be easier to manually add the known clear channels rather than deleting the encrypted ones after the fact.


----------



## Speedskater

The Cox HD's are:


WKYC + sub

WEWS

WJW

WOIO + sub

WVIZ + 3 subs

WUAB + sub


I'll have to re-scan to get the standards. They keep moving the #'s and the TV forgets them. My Samsung forgets my new favorite channels too!


----------



## nickdawg

It's the calm before the storm, lol. FUSE and IFC in HD are coming tomorrow. Or should I say today.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17722175
> 
> 
> It's the calm before the storm, lol. FUSE and IFC in HD are coming tomorrow. Or should I say today.



Hey nickdawg will do a watch. I'll follow you. You stay up all night and I'll take over in the morning.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/17721060
> 
> 
> The Cox HD's are:
> 
> 
> WKYC + sub
> 
> WEWS
> 
> WJW
> 
> WOIO + sub
> 
> WVIZ + 3 subs
> 
> WUAB + sub
> 
> 
> I'll have to re-scan to get the standards. They keep moving the #'s and the TV forgets them. My Samsung forgets my new favorite channels too!



Thanks. I'm also interested in the standard def feeds. I know W35AX is one of them because I saw it on that waiting room TV. Are stations like WEAO and WGN also clear (since they are part of the analog "lifeline" basic package)?


So you say the QAM channel numbers move around? That's probably done to discourage people from using the clear QAM channels.


----------



## nickdawg

+Where the hell are my new channels? They added the channels tht **** that affects the two people in all of NE Ohio that pay for the ripoff tiers. Where's the other stuff they promised?


Although TBH I can't say Id want FUSE today. They had some kind of 24 hour Rihanna or someone BS on last night. BLECH!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17727063
> 
> 
> +Where the hell are my new channels? They added the channels tht **** that affects the two people in all of NE Ohio that pay for the ripoff tiers. Where's the other stuff they promised?
> 
> 
> Although TBH I can't say Id want FUSE today. They had some kind of 24 hour Rihanna or someone BS on last night. BLECH!!



It's not Christmas yet nickdawg.


Have they added any of those channels yet? I'm so unconcerned I haven't even checked.


----------



## JayPSU

We don't have ANY of the new channels yet here in Columbus, Ohio.


----------



## shooter21198

and to think TW Mid Ohio was ahead of North East Ohio for the longest time


----------



## k2rj

HOW TO GET TWC TO FIX YOUR PROBLEM.


(Note: I did not write this. Just copying it into here for everyone to see. Originally posted here » www.gearbits.com/archives/2005/1···war.html )


I've been a manager in the telecommunications industry for a long time and I know that each company works fairly similar in how it handles and tracks chronic issues. Therefore this works for TWC, or Comcast, or my own Verizon, or wherever.


Before we start, there is one very important thing that you should realize. Chances are that you already know it, but it is very important to be thinking about every moment because it is going to affect how you handle your problem. That fact is: "The customer rep and even his supervisor do not care if you are a TWC customer." In fact, if you are a chronic problem to them, they would actually appreciate if you would take your business somewhere else. Therefore, the emptiest threat you can give them is to say you will cancel if they don't fix the problem.


This means you need to change your stance from "I'm going to leave if you don't fix this" to "I'm going to make your life hell if you don't fix this." Because everyone on the customer contact side, from the customer reps all the way to the field techs and their respective bosses don't care if you leave TWC, but they most certainly do care if you make their jobs harder.


The way you do this is with what we refer to in my company as the "trouble in 30 metric". Simply put, if a customer calls back in and has a new repair ticket created within thirty days of the last ticket, it is considered an unresolved trouble and goes on this report. If you call back three weeks later with the problem still occuring, it goes on that report again. However, the first time you wait 31 days since your last trouble ticket, you are resetting the counter to zero and it is as if all those chronic calls before this one never happened. Multiple troubles in 30 are a low-level field tech manager's worst nightmare. You taking your business somewhere else isn't their worst-case scenario - getting a call from a vice president asking why the manager's techs are too incompetent to fix a problem that has been referred out 20 times in the last 9 months most definitely is.


To this end, you will start getting a supervisor's attention right around the 4th or 5th repeat ticket. It is about then they start getting a little bit antsy about the status of your problem and how it is looking to the higher ups. Remember... the boss of that manager doesn't care about the nature of your problem, he cares about the numbers. He isn't seeing what your issue is, all he is seeing is a set of numbers telling him that your house has had 10 visits in 6 months (and from the customer rep all the way down to the field tech, the average dispatched trouble ticket costs the company between 100 and 150 dollars.) After enough troubles in 30, you are going to get the attention of someone that first line manager definitely doesn't want the attention of. Because of this, they are going to start using tactics to derail that trouble in 30. They will start using ******** lines like "we have tried something new but it may take a while to get full effect, if you are still having problems in 5 weeks, call us back." or "Here's my personal number, call me next time you are having a problem rather than calling customer service." The second one in particular sounds very nice, but the truth is that all the manager is trying to do is prevent any more escalation of that trouble in 30 and 9 times out of 10, I'd be willing to bet you that manager will invariably stop returning your calls after the 30 days is over and the situation has been defused.


Like any other job, you have your good employees and your bad employees. But I have always been struck by the number of really bad employees in TWC. I had a chronic problem involving my cable and internet going out at night that they would not deal with. Their maintainer techs which are allegedly the best and brightest, suffer from a crisis-level lack of education in their field. TWC does not feel the need to actually teach them the science behind what it is that they do. More than once I had to explain to the tech how heat affects the physics of copper (something incredibly important in a desert that can have a 70 degree temperature difference between night and day, and something obviously valuable in understanding problems that occur at night and go away in the daytime).


This does not have the same effect on a customer rep, obviously. Customer reps are the riffraff of the industry, because they have no vested interest in the future of the company beyond their own desks. It's not like that just in TWC, it is like that everywhere. There's not much to be done about this, just see the customer rep as your gateway to getting to talk to someone that matters. Don't bother talking to their supervisors, that won't help much unless you get a considerable distance up the ladder. The most important person in the quest to get your problem fixed is a field tech supervisor, remember that- they are the ones that you can cause the most trouble for.


----------



## hookbill

I'm experiencing some internet problems again. Twice in the last 18 hours I've had to reset my modem. Hope this isn't another issue, specially after reading the previous post. Though I doubt I will ever have 5 30 day waiting periods before my problem gets fixed.


FWIW I've got a managers phone number and I called him nearly a year and a half after he gave it to me. He picked up the phone, listen to what my issue was and promptly took care of it.


----------



## hookbill

This is very troublesome. It looks like there could be some real problems with renewals with certain networks. Here's TW's emai:



_You Can't Get a 300% Raise, Why Should a TV Network?


You've probably heard the news by now. In a few short days, some of your favorite shows could disappear from your TV.


At Time Warner Cable, we're not happy about this - and we know our customers aren't happy about it either. But we want you to have the facts, and we want you to be prepared.


Even in today's economy, some television networks are demanding massive price increases for their programming - up to 300% more than the current price we pay. And with our agreements with these networks running out at the end of December, some networks have threatened to pull the plug on their sports, entertainment - even family holiday specials - at midnight New Year's Eve.




We know prices keep going up. We've had to announce a few price increases of our own and we know no one's ever happy about that. But up to 300%? That's going too far!


Please be assured that we will continue negotiating for a fair agreement that protects our customers' pocketbooks. But if the TV networks follow through on their threats - we're ready. You'll find a helpful guide to alternative sources for programming at RollOverOrGetTough.com, so you'll still be able to watch many popular shows even if a television network pulls the plug


Don't let them hold your TV hostage. Go to RollOverOrGetTough.com now and let us know what you think.


Together, we just might make a difference in what America pays for TV._


Now here's a link from the Wall Street Journal. This is included with several others in the TW email: http://webreprints.djreprints.com/2330850712690.html 


No House or 24? No FX? I could care less about the weather channel but notice Scripps is in there too. Does that mean no WEWS?



Here is the link TW included in the email. Am I the only one who got this??

http://www.rolloverorgettough.com/


----------



## Goldenager62

I received the email today and something in the mail, maybe with my bill. I guess we have to dig the rabbit ears out, like we did when Direct TV first started.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17738909
> 
> 
> I received the email today and something in the mail, maybe with my bill. I guess we have to dig the rabbit ears out, like we did when Direct TV first started.



That is not a solution for those of us who simply don't get FOX. They are still on VHF and I cannot get their signal at all. And where my television is rabbit ears do not work well.


See, what pisses me off about this is you don't hear anything about D* or E* having these issues. I think the problem is with TW, they are so cheap and watching the bottom line they squeak. They realize if they jack up rates to compensate people will fly to Satellite or any other alternative they can.


Sigh....Well, if necessary I'll do the BT thing for House and 24. One thing good about having TiVo is I can stream them right to my big screen to watch. Since I time shift everything anyway it wouldn't be a delay for me.


----------



## AdamPS

+1 for GET TOUGH


----------



## Goldenager62

Hook,

You are right about Time Warner, profit before service.

We in the Elyria area are still about 40 HD channels less than you, with no word if we ever will get them. This is just icing on the cake for us.


----------



## nickdawg

Honestly, I think think this is all horse**** drama, just like the Viacom thing last year and just like the NFL Network thing. I highly doubt that the nation's second largest cable provider will remove FOX from the lineup in the nation's two largest TV markets(where TWC is the dominant cableco in NY and LA).


News Corp and Scripps are two major companies with stations in large markets, I honestly can't see a large network like ABC removed in Cleveland(WEWS) or Detroit(WXYZ).


And the cable networks. TWC is already the ass of jokes because they do not have NFL Network and just recently tossed out HD Net. Now they're not going to have F/X too?


I don't buy this "roll over or get tough" crap, it seems like more BS propaganda to make customers think cable "cares" about them. Only thing TWC cares about is not having to pay more money to content providers because it means less money in their pockets.


They should call this "Keep Your Customers OR Incite A Mass Exodus To Satellite".


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> See, what pisses me off about this is you don't hear anything about D* or E* having these issues.



Believe me it happens to satellite too. It never hit close to home yet, but other markets have lost some of their locals on satellite until the parties settle on a "fair" price.


Anyone remember the "get FOX back on COX" campaign from about 6 or 7 years ago? The COX subs got a "free preview" of some of the Encore theme channels in place of FOX 8 back then. With Satellite they give you a reduced price until the locals are back to "full strength".


No MSO is immune (except for those who can get it all OTA).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17739283
> 
> 
> Honestly, I think think this is all horse**** drama, just like the Viacom thing last year and just like the NFL Network thing. I highly doubt that the nation's second largest cable provider will remove FOX from the lineup in the nation's two largest TV markets(where TWC is the dominant cableco in NY and LA).
> 
> 
> News Corp and Scripps are two major companies with stations in large markets, I honestly can't see a large network like ABC removed in Cleveland(WEWS) or Detroit(WXYZ).
> 
> 
> And the cable networks. TWC is already the ass of jokes because they do not have NFL Network and just recently tossed out HD Net. Now they're not going to have F/X too?
> 
> 
> I don't buy this "roll over or get tough" crap, it seems like more BS propaganda to make customers think cable "cares" about them. Only thing TWC cares about is not having to pay more money to content providers because it means less money in their pockets.
> 
> 
> They should call this "Keep Your Customers OR Incite A Mass Exodus To Satellite".



Yeah, I'm well aware of the market thing and you're right about both L.A. and New York being dominated by TW. Still I think TW will drag this out to the last second.


And of course the roll over or get tough is just BS to make them look like the good guys. Same strategy they used when they dumped the NFL Network. You are aware we did have it when it was Adelphia right?


If they go through with it I hope your last sentence becomes reality. I'll bet D* and E* will start drooling.


----------



## lewis1982

any word on the december 15th hd additions??


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/17740737
> 
> 
> any word on the december 15th hd additions??



I've rebooted the box every day, they still haven't been added yet.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17739283
> 
> 
> Honestly, I think think this is all horse**** drama, just like the Viacom thing last year and just like the NFL Network thing. I highly doubt that the nation's second largest cable provider will remove FOX from the lineup in the nation's two largest TV markets(where TWC is the dominant cableco in NY and LA).
> 
> 
> News Corp and Scripps are two major companies with stations in large markets, I honestly can't see a large network like ABC removed in Cleveland(WEWS) or Detroit(WXYZ).



Don't forget there are two points of view when it comes to this type of thing. TWC doesn't want to lose ABC, but ABC sure as hell doesn't want to alienate all of TWC's subscribers. The amount of money ABC would lose due to lost advertising is huge... We're only hearing the TWC side of the story since we're TWC customers, not ABC customers - imagine what would happen if ABC started running "We want to do something that will cost you more money" commercials.


In the end, it will probably work itself out. TWC will pay the networks a little more, our cable bills will go up a little bit, we'll complain about it, and nothing else will change. Same old story...


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17736705
> 
> 
> I'm experiencing some internet problems again. Twice in the last 18 hours I've had to reset my modem. Hope this isn't another issue, specially after reading the previous post. Though I doubt I will ever have 5 30 day waiting periods before my problem gets fixed.
> 
> 
> FWIW I've got a managers phone number and I called him nearly a year and a half after he gave it to me. He picked up the phone, listen to what my issue was and promptly took care of it.



My internet went out at noontime Thursday and isn't back up yet. When I called they said there was no outage noted, so they scheduled a truck roll for this afternoon. I did note that one of the other wireless routers I can pick up from the house had no internet connection either (and I believe they are on RR also). Since TV is coming in just fine, it is more than likely some local hardware on a nearby pole.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/17742999
> 
> 
> My internet went out at noontime Thursday and isn't back up yet. When I called they said there was no outage noted, so they scheduled a truck roll for this afternoon. I did note that one of the other wireless routers I can pick up from the house had no internet connection either (and I believe they are on RR also). Since TV is coming in just fine, it is more than likely some local hardware on a nearby pole.



I'm assuming they had you reset your modem, right? Just double checking. If not unplug it and plug it back in.


I had another outage again last night. What's odd about it is my signal is good and all lights are flashing on the modem so data looks like it's traveling. Even my VoIP was still working so I don't get it.


Rebooting the modem did restore each time however.


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17742420
> 
> 
> Don't forget there are two points of view when it comes to this type of thing. TWC doesn't want to lose ABC, but ABC sure as hell doesn't want to alienate all of TWC's subscribers. The amount of money ABC would lose due to lost advertising is huge... We're only hearing the TWC side of the story since we're TWC customers, not ABC customers - imagine what would happen if ABC started running "We want to do something that will cost you more money" commercials.
> 
> 
> In the end, it will probably work itself out. TWC will pay the networks a little more, our cable bills will go up a little bit, we'll complain about it, and nothing else will change. Same old story...



In the case of the local stations, TWC (or any MSO) does not pay the networks anything. The MSO's pay the station owners (i.e. Scripps in the case of our local ABC affiliate). Since FOX sold WJW, we no longer have an O&O in the Cleveland Market (O&O's are the only case where an MSO pays a "network").


So when these squabbles happen the networks have their hands tied by the separate contracts they have with the station owners. BTW: You can thank Government interference for capping the number of stations an ownership group can hold, otherwise the big 4 could just buy up every affiliate in the largest markets and never have to loose eyeballs because some greedy ownership group pulls a station off an MSO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Michael P 2341* /forum/post/17745120
> 
> 
> In the case of the local stations, TWC (or any MSO) does not pay the networks anything. The MSO's pay the station owners (i.e. Scripps in the case of our local ABC affiliate). Since FOX sold WJW, we no longer have an O&O in the Cleveland Market (O&O's are the only case where an MSO pays a "network").
> 
> 
> So when these squabbles happen the networks have their hands tied by the separate contracts they have with the station owners. BTW: You can thank Government interference for capping the number of stations an ownership group can hold, otherwise the big 4 could just buy up every affiliate in the largest markets and never have to loose eyeballs because some greedy ownership group pulls a station off an MSO.



Fox lost money last year. That's one of the reasons they sold WJW, they needed money.


I don't think what you are saying about limited ownership by stations is necessarily true. Case in point, CBS in Los Angeles owns both KCBS and KCAL. They even share the same news feed which quite frankly I find destroys the identity of the station (much the same as WUAB and WOIO do).


Maybe they changed the law governing how many stations the network can own in a city. I'm not certain but anytime you have a monopoly it's never a good thing.


----------



## DCSholtis

From a Reuters story this goes much deeper than Fox locals:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...ertainmentNews 



> Quote:
> Negotiations between the two sides have been primarily held up by a disagreement over the value of Fox's free-to-air broadcast network. Fox is asking Time Warner Cable for around $1 a subscriber in payment for the retransmission rights to carry its network, according to a person familiar with the talks.
> 
> 
> But there is a "very likely possibility that Time Warner Cable may choose to no longer carry Fox Broadcasting, Fox Cable and Fox regional sports programing," Fox said.
> 
> 
> The negotiations do not include Fox's news channels or National Geographic channel in which it has a 50 percent stake.
> 
> *Time Warner Cable is also in carriage negotiations with The Weather Channel and Scripps Networks Interactive Inc, which owns stations like the Food Network and HGTV.*


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/17740737
> 
> 
> any word on the december 15th hd additions??



Here are the new HD channels that I have found here in Solon:


396-Tennis Channel HD

397-CBS College Sports HD

398-NHL Network HD

399-NBA TV HD


----------



## hookbill

Howdy neighbor. The only new channels I'm seeing is A NBA on 399. I rr'm in Bainbridge.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm seeing absolutely nothing. FUSE and IFC were supposed to be here on *12/15*. The only thing different I've seen is something called "*AFD*" on *1911* while looking for new HD in the 1800s range.


----------



## lewis1982

ive had these since december 10th i believe

396-Tennis Channel HD

397-CBS College Sports HD

398-NHL Network HD

399-NBA TV HD


only nbatv works for me because im not a subscriber to the other ones blah blah..i just want the ifc, fuse and movie hd channels but of course there not in the guide yet..


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17748651
> 
> 
> The only thing different I've seen is something called "*AFD*" on *1911* while looking for new HD in the 1800s range.



That used to be on 911 before they started moving everything around. Based on the name ("Akron Fire Department" ??) and previous channel number, I'm guessing it's some sort of channel available for members of the area's emergency response services.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17748559
> 
> 
> Howdy neighbor. The only new channels I'm seeing is A NBA on 399. I rr'm in Bainbridge.



I think you get the others if you get the Sports package (which I subscribe to).


----------



## hookbill

You know I'm really kind of pissed off at Time Warner again. Basically I've had enough of SDV.


This SDV has really been such a pia to me I can't enjoy my TiVo equipment. Their Tuner Adapter needed resetting twice this past week, one up stairs and one down stairs. I went through regular customer service because the last time I had this happen I couldn't reach my contact and customer service was able to help me.


I called on Saturday night and got transferred to cable card assistance. But I was on hold so long I pressed the "leave a message" button. I'm still waiting on that call back. Fortunately I was able to fix it myself.


Yesterday I had the 8 flashes and a pause which meant the box is bricked. I can't fix that I need them to do that. The first person I talked to dumped me back into the que. The next person said, "Oh I don't know anything about the tuner adapters," put me on eternal hold, then she sent me to TiVo.










It took me 2 hours and 30 minutes to get 1 tuner adapter taken care of. Absolutely ridiculous. And none of the CSR's I spoke to even offered to try a simple hit, which is basically all it needs.


See most people with tuner adapters don't have this problem, but because we got such a screwed up system to start with I do.


Next time my TiVo's hard drive goes out, and hopefully that will be a few years, I'm going to call D* out again. Maybe by then they will have another deal for TiVo. No matter, I'm just fed up with cable be it Time Warner, Adelphia, whatever.


One last thing: I'm also having internet problems again. I've had to reset my modem 3 times yesterday and once so far today. When I called TW about that today there was a prerecorded message that said, "Good evening and thank you for calling Time Warner. We are having issues with Video, HSI, and phone at this time. If your calling for any of those issues are techs are working on it....."


WTF??? Good evening at 8:30 this morning? That means it was going on since last night and they still haven't fixed it. And isn't Video, HSI, and Phone everything they offer?


My God, these people are amazing. Appointment set for Monday for the internet.


Thanks for allowing me to rant.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17743005
> 
> 
> I'm assuming they had you reset your modem, right? Just double checking. If not unplug it and plug it back in.
> 
> 
> I had another outage again last night. What's odd about it is my signal is good and all lights are flashing on the modem so data looks like it's traveling. Even my VoIP was still working so I don't get it.
> 
> 
> Rebooting the modem did restore each time however.



Well, it came up by itself mid-morning on Friday, but I didn't like the levels, especially the 54 dBmv uplink level which is very close to the limit. The cable tech arrived on time at 2 p.m. and spent the next 3-1/2 hours replacing the (underground) drop to the house and the feeder cable that runs around the back of the house to the other side of the house where the computer stuff resides. The underground drop only affected internet by 1-2 dB or so. (He did find a possible intermittent break under the sidewalk, though.) But the cable around the back of the house gave 16 dB of improvement! He showed me where the critters under the deck had done some significant eating of the outer sheath, shield and dielectric, baring the center conductor for a foot or so! Now the uplink is 38 dBmv (and the downlink improved from -8 dBmv to +8 dBmv) and, checking the logs on the cable modem, there have been no more errors reported since it went back in service yesterday (before, there were always a slew of intermittent alarms showing in the log.) So, I'm a happy camper!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/17750823
> 
> 
> Well, it came up by itself mid-morning on Friday, but I didn't like the levels, especially the 54 dBmv uplink level which is very close to the limit. The cable tech arrived on time at 2 p.m. and spent the next 3-1/2 hours replacing the (underground) drop to the house and the feeder cable that runs around the back of the house to the other side of the house where the computer stuff resides. The underground drop only affected internet by 1-2 dB or so. (He did find a possible intermittent break under the sidewalk, though.) But the cable around the back of the house gave 16 dB of improvement! He showed me where the critters under the deck had done some significant eating of the outer sheath, shield and dielectric, baring the center conductor for a foot or so! Now the uplink is 38 dBmv (and the downlink improved from -8 dBmv to +8 dBmv) and, checking the logs on the cable modem, there have been no more errors reported since it went back in service yesterday (before, there were always a slew of intermittent alarms showing in the log.) So, I'm a happy camper!



Just a few months ago they laid all brand new cable from the outside to the box for me (underground). So I don't know what my problem could be at this point. My signal looks good at 37 dBmv.


Who knows, it's TW. Glad for you though.


----------



## ErieMarty

I stumbled across today...


650...Showtime On Demand in HD....


Not sure how long its been there..normally I just go to the Showtime HD channel..which I think is 641..and don't check out the other ones.


I checked the channel guide and HBO or Cinemax didn't have a HD on Demand..


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17750550
> 
> 
> WTF??? Good evening at 8:30 this morning? That means it was going on since last night and they still haven't fixed it.



Give them some slack on that outage message, Hookbill. They just moved their call center across town.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17751441
> 
> 
> Give them some slack on that outage message, Hookbill. They just moved their call center across town.



So are you saying that when I called everything was fixed and they didn't have the message pulled?


I'll cut them a break on the message, but Video, HSI, and Phone...Come on man, there's nothing left after that.










Anyway my therapy work and my TW rage is over. Please don't get me started again.


----------



## nickdawg

TBH Hook, I would just dump TWC. I've had my problems with TWC, but not like that. Does this having to reset the 'extra box' ever mess up recordings? If it did, I would definitely dump them. It's BS to have that much unavailable and the blinking lights on that box. I don't care if it costs $20 or $120 a month, it's a ripoff if most of the channels don't work. I'd be looking to sell that Tivo on ebay or Craigslist. Or keep it on board and use it OTA.


And for the internet, again I suggest DSL. From all these comments I've read about TWC I honestly cannot imagine an internet service more pathetic than TWC. I can't even count how many times TWC has been out this year---completely out. But I can count AT&T on one hand.


----------



## nickdawg

Seriously, they said "good evening" at 8:30 in the morning?







This company is even more piss poor pathetic than I thought.


And whoopee, they added Sowtime HD on demand. What a effing waste. Why does TWC keep adding these waste channels?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17751591
> 
> 
> Seriously, they said "good evening" at 8:30 in the morning?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This company is even more piss poor pathetic than I thought.
> 
> 
> And whoopee, they added Sowtime HD on demand. What a effing waste. Why does TWC keep adding these waste channels?



Showtime has great shows on it. The Tudors, Dexter, Nurse Jackie. I like Californication too but wife vetos that one.


As far as your previous post goes, it is very aggravating but at this time of the year I don't watch a lot of SDV channels. And it hasn't cost me a single recording yet, it seems to happen during the day time and I catch it.


What bothers me about it is nobody gives a rational explanation of why it happens. They don't have a clue and don't care enough to investigate it. Then again why should they? TiVo customers are a vast minority of their customers.


I can't do OTA. No signal. If you saw where I lived you'd understand why. Satellite is a different story, I heard D* has launched a Satellite that's in the South East. I have trees that way too but maybe I could get a signal.


In any case unless the Series 4 doesn't require a tuner adapter I don't think I'll buy a replacement for my upstairs HD TiVo. I'll probably just stick a box on that. Matter of fact I want the 4250 for my wife because she doesn't even use the DVR.


I'll be keeping an eye on the CES in 2010 to see if there is any evidence of a Series 4 TiVo. We also hear that TiVo has been working on a way for us to get On Demand. That might be available for S3/HD TiVo but no ETA.


----------



## tjs70

Like clockwork! It's Friday and Saturday. Time for a Time Warner SDV outage.

Really! At least they are admitting it now and not insisting on a truck roll. But it would be nice if they would fix it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/17752822
> 
> 
> Like clockwork! It's Friday and Saturday. Time for a Time Warner SDV outage.
> 
> Really! At least they are admitting it now and not insisting on a truck roll. But it would be nice if they would fix it.



No SDV outage in my area. Watching MLBnet in HD.


----------



## tjs70

Hook, it is a pure capacity isue. I am sure it is only effecting my node but Friday and Saturday are un-watchable. I can get the channels approximately 40% of the time on the weekends. It is so frustrating. Thank god I also have DirecTV but they need to get it right.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17752953
> 
> 
> No doubt its your node. Hope you didn't think I didn't believe you, I was just passing along that things were OK here.



I was watching a recording of Stevens Seagall Lawman recorded off of A&E which isn't a SDV channel. It was missing about 5 minutes time in the middle of the recording. I just think that they are trying to run high tech stuff on a very old Adelphia system. I don't know what they can do all I know is that what they are doing ain't working.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17753016
> 
> 
> I was watching a recording of Stevens Seagall Lawman recorded off of A&E which isn't a SDV channel. It was missing about 5 minutes time in the middle of the recording. I just think that they are trying to run high tech stuff on a very old Adelphia system. I don't know what they can do all I know is that what they are doing ain't working.



I've noticed that happens alot with the channels in the 441-444 range. Sometimes USAHD and TBSHD (both NOT SDV channels) just randomly freeze or go out during watching. If the picture freezes during a show, that time is subtracted from the recording. That's where the 5 minutes went.










No problems for me tonight, I've been watching WKYC analog (channel 3) all evening.


----------



## nickdawg

493 Fuse HD

494 IFC HD

495 Encore HD

652 Showtime 2 HD

661 TMC HD


Future channel wise I find it really interesting that Fuse HD is located on channel 493, rather than closer to 470 where Palladia is. It seems like it would make more sense to have the music channels MTV, BET, VH1 and CMT together with Fuse, like the SD lineup. Something like:

471 MTVHD

472 VH1 HD

473 BET HD

474 CMT HD
475 Fuse HD


Then that leaves:

458 Nickelodeon HD

475 Comedy Central HD

477 SPIKE HD

479 TruTV HD


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17753958
> 
> 
> It seems like it would make more sense to have the music channels MTV, BET, VH1....



Why would you include MTV in a "music channels" category??? In the last ten or fifteen years, MTV has had less relation with modern music than Tchaikovsky.


----------



## lewis1982

these channels are up for you nickdawg?


----------



## wd8kct

Remember the evening MTV signed on with "Video Killed The Radio Star"... and VJs... and the astronaut with the psychedelic moon flag... remember when Nickelodeon was commercial free...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17754031
> 
> 
> Why would you include MTV in a "music channels" category??? In the last ten or fifteen years, MTV has had less relation with modern music than Tchaikovsky.


----------



## scnrfrq

Latest on TW-Fox channel dispute. 12/31 is coming fast.....

http://www.multichannel.com/article/...le&rid=6240895


----------



## mobgre

Fuse and IFC HD are up on my system this morning. N. Olmsted area.


----------



## nickdawg

They're also on here in Akron. Two very disappointing things so far: 1. FUSE HD show music videos in stretchovision. The one on right now is stretched letterbox. 2. F**king Lil' Wayne is on all damn day. BOO!!!










I'm getting a feeling that just like MTV, the best days of FUSE are in the past.


On a positive note, the usual stretchovision nightmare IFC has some anime movie on now in real HD. It's f**king awsum!!!


----------



## nickdawg

OMG, it's another stretchovision channel. Commercials came on, stretched. A Subway ad and a Progressive ad, that are available in HD, were shown stretched. Music videos, that could easily be expanded to full 16x9 are being shown in the moronic "History HD stretch" style.


I was looking forward to seeing their Wednesday specials about the Warped tour this summer. I guess instead of seeing the Warped tour in HD, I get an actual "warped" picture.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17763287
> 
> 
> They're also on here in Akron. Two very disappointing things so far: 1. FUSE HD show music videos in stretchovision. The one on right now is stretched letterbox. 2. F**king Lil' Wayne is on all damn day. BOO!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting a feeling that just like MTV, the best days of FUSE are in the past.
> 
> 
> On a positive note, the usual stretchovision nightmare IFC has some anime movie on now in real HD. It's f**king awsum!!!



Nickdawg can you give me a listing of the new channels so I can call TiVo?


----------



## nickdawg

The only two you should be getting:


493 FUSE HD

494 IFC HD


These are subscription channels:

495 ENCORE HD

652 SHOWTIME 2 HD

661 TCM HD


Well TWC, don't keep us waiting. Other areas are getting the Viacom HD channels, time to update that Programming Notices page.










First of the year, I think SPIKE TV and COMEDY CENTRAL in exchange for FOX is a good trade.


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17760959
> 
> 
> Latest on TW-Fox channel dispute. 12/31 is coming fast.....
> 
> http://www.multichannel.com/article/...le&rid=6240895



oh c'mon this kinda crap is getting ridiculous.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17763570
> 
> 
> Well TWC, don't keep us waiting. Other areas are getting the Viacom HD channels, time to update that Programming Notices page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of the year, I think SPIKE TV and COMEDY CENTRAL in exchange for FOX is a good trade.




nickdawg what other twc areas have viacom?


----------



## shooter21198

Wisconsin and Southern California so far if I recall correctly


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/17764207
> 
> 
> 
> nickdawg what other twc areas have viacom?



NYC and LA have all the channels. Somewhere in Wisconsin also have some of the channels.


----------



## WilliamR

What the heck. I have the Time Warner box. I came home and turned on the box, watched the news for a few minutes then turned to TBS HD and got a prompt on the screen that asked me if I wanted to start this program over. I selected it and it started playing from the beginning. Freaking cool. I checked some other stations and it does it on some, not all, but some. REALLY cool feature and VERY VERY handy. Didn't even know this was coming. Nicely done.


----------



## hookbill

Yes they've had that for quite some time now. I'm surprised you're just now seeing it.


----------



## lewis1982

where did starzhd go? gone since new channels were up


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/17771644
> 
> 
> where did starzhd go? gone since new channels were up



Its still on 676 down here in canton.


----------



## lewis1982

wierd gone on all boxes here..reset all of them


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17771359
> 
> 
> Yes they've had that for quite some time now. I'm surprised you're just now seeing it.



This is the first time it has happened. But, this area really seems to get stuff WAY behind times. Stations take weeks to get when everyone else has them, etc. Just glad I got it, nice feature I used it twice today already.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/17772941
> 
> 
> This is the first time it has happened. But, this area really seems to get stuff WAY behind times. Stations take weeks to get when everyone else has them, etc. Just glad I got it, nice feature I used it twice today already.



And we're supposed to guess where "this area" is?? !!


----------



## shooter21198

Well I just noticed this morning that Fuse HD and IFC HD are finally lit up


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/17774537
> 
> 
> And we're supposed to guess where "this area" is?? !!



NE Ohio, Macedonia


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/17778530
> 
> 
> NE Ohio, Macedonia



You know, lately - by that I mean this year - we've been getting a lot of the new channels around the same time as other areas have gotten them....


It's too bad we are former Adelphia and run SARA. God I hate SARA. I know the other stuff isn't much better... but god, it looks like SARA was developed in the late 1980s.


And our on demand performance and selection sucks too. At my girlfriend's parents' house down in Akron, on-demand stuff starts almost immediately. Here, it sometimes takes up to a minute to start.. if it starts at all.


I'm on the Macedonia headend as well.


Oh, and my opinion of the start-over function: The best use for it is to get a digital signal on an otherwise analog station. For example, here, Comedy Central (207) is actually analog. Even though it's in the 200s, and part of the "digital basic package," it's really analog. So I will use the start-over function to get a slightly better picture on those channels.


----------



## JoeySR

It appears the game may be blacked out this Sunday. WTOL in Toledo will be showing the game. Has anybody been able to recieve WTOL from the Lakewood area and if so what type of antenna are you using?

Thanks.....


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/17783168
> 
> 
> It appears the game may be blacked out this Sunday. WTOL in Toledo will be showing the game. Has anybody been able to recieve WTOL from the Lakewood area and if so what type of antenna are you using?
> 
> Thanks.....



Well, isn't that just my luck. The one time I actually want to watch a Browns game it gets blacked out. I'm a Raiders fan and was looking forward to seeing a Raider victory.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17783176
> 
> 
> Well, isn't that just my luck. The one time I actually want to watch a Browns game it gets blacked out. I'm a Raiders fan and was looking forward to seeing a Raider victory.



haha, that took be by shock at first. _Wanting_ to watch a Browns game from the guy who's just as irritated by Cleveland sports as me?










Then I got it, to watch the other guys win. That's the only reason why I'd watch the Clowns too. Pittsburgh really pissed me off a few weeks back.


----------



## Goldenager62

The NFL has given the Cleveland Browns untill Saturday at 1 pm to sell out the game to avoid a blackout.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17783473
> 
> 
> The NFL has given the Cleveland Browns untill Saturday at 1 pm to sell out the game to avoid a blackout.



Good, that's what they did the last time and they managed to work out a deal.


I'd go to the game myself but I value my life and it will probably be too cold. You Browns fans are crazy.


----------



## nickdawg

I'll bet the Clowns are gonna eat the cost of the tickets again, just like last time.


Also, WTOL is a VHF station, slightly more power than WOIO. But still, if you're having trouble with WOIO on channel 10, the outlook for channel 11 isn't very good.


----------



## scnrfrq

Merry Christmas from TW! They've added a zip code-specific list of channels they may take away on 1/1:
http://rolloverorgettough.com/home


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/17783168
> 
> 
> It appears the game may be blacked out this Sunday. WTOL in Toledo will be showing the game. Has anybody been able to recieve WTOL from the Lakewood area and if so what type of antenna are you using?
> 
> Thanks.....



WTOL is 85+ miles from Lakewood. It is improbable that any antenna will be able to pick it up for you unless atmospheric conditions are favorable, which is highly doubtful at this time of year.


----------



## dleising

Hey can anyone in the Kent area or elsewhere tell me what the QAM mappings are for WEWS-HD and WJW-HD? I am doing a QAM scan on my new TV and I get all the locals except for 5 and 8. My direct channel for WKYC is 111-1 and for WOIO it's 108.


Any ideas?


----------



## hookbill

I actually for the first time in 2 years don't have anything on my main TiVo that I really want to watch I recorded a few movies and rented Star Trek from Amazon.


Star Treck was a good movie but a major disappointment. I didn't expect Dolby 5.1 but the sound was PCM 48 and to top it off it was Letter boxed. And not the larger letter box, it was real small. I stretched it as much as I could and I still had at least 4 inches top and bottom of screen.


I'm going to take a look at Amazon again. I could have sworn that movie was suppose to be in HD and I know they do rent HD movies. Bummer.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17789779
> 
> 
> I actually for the first time in 2 years don't have anything on my main TiVo that I really want to watch I recorded a few movies and rented Star Trek from Amazon.
> 
> 
> Star Treck was a good movie but a major disappointment. I didn't expect Dolby 5.1 but the sound was PCM 48 and to top it off it was Letter boxed. And not the larger letter box, it was real small. I stretched it as much as I could and I still had at least 4 inches top and bottom of screen.
> 
> 
> I'm going to take a look at Amazon again. I could have sworn that movie was suppose to be in HD and I know they do rent HD movies. Bummer.



I hope you didn't have to pay for that movie Hook.







I'm so disappointed TWC doesn't offer tiny Amazon movies on my 8300HD.










But seriously, this is why I hate this move to "online" sources. I will not submit to this online crap like the Netflix streaming video. I've also heard rumors that even hulu wants to start charging. Never, I won't pay a penny for lower than broadcast TV quality video. What's passed off as "1080i HDTV" on TWC is already abysmal enough, _thanks but no thanks_ to 380i video.










But the general public keeps eating this crap up so sadly I think picture quality will only get worse over time, not better. Even OTA is being destroyed now thanks to that "subchannel" BS.


I'd rather get a Bule Ray player. It's worth the trip to the video store for the better quality.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17790790
> 
> 
> I hope you didn't have to pay for that movie Hook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so disappointed TWC doesn't offer tiny Amazon movies on my 8300HD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously, this is why I hate this move to "online" sources. I will not submit to this online crap like the Netflix streaming video. I've also heard rumors that even hulu wants to start charging. Never, I won't pay a penny for lower than broadcast TV quality video. What's passed off as "1080i HDTV" on TWC is already abysmal enough, _thanks but no thanks_ to 380i video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the general public keeps eating this crap up so sadly I think picture quality will only get worse over time, not better. Even OTA is being destroyed now thanks to that "subchannel" BS.
> 
> 
> I'd rather get a Bule Ray player. It's worth the trip to the video store for the better quality.



I paid for it of course, you pay before you view. After I posted I found out that I can't purchase a HD movie on line. I can purchase HD television shows. Probably the same ones you get for free on Demand. Well, probably more as I can purchase whole series of those.


What I should have done was used my TiVo instead of the internet. On the TiVo there is a selection box if it's available in HD.


I share your concern about streaming which is why I wanted to download the movie as opposed to streaming it. I'm still not sure how that works because I haven't ever done it. I may try another movie tonight. I have several movies I've recorded since then.


I'm just so surprised that there is absolutely nothing worth watching during this time of the year. I ended up watching Animal Planet HD in real time. With commercials! That sucked.


I'm still going to give an HD movie a shot. If it sucks then I'll know for sure.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17790930
> 
> 
> I paid for it of course, you pay before you view. After I posted I found out that I can't purchase a HD movie on line. I can purchase HD television shows. Probably the same ones you get for free on Demand. Well, probably more as I can purchase whole series of those.
> 
> 
> What I should have done was used my TiVo instead of the internet. On the TiVo there is a selection box if it's available in HD.
> 
> 
> I share your concern about streaming which is why I wanted to download the movie as opposed to streaming it. I'm still not sure how that works because I haven't ever done it. I may try another movie tonight. I have several movies I've recorded since then.



Meh. Downloading isn't much better. It's better in the sense that there isn't freezing or glitches caused by a live stream, but the PQ is only slightly better. I downloaded an entire season of Dexter on BT, the *x* is only slightly higher than SD broadcast but still significantly lower than 720p HDTV.



> Quote:
> I'm just so surprised that there is absolutely nothing worth watching during this time of the year. I ended up watching Animal Planet HD in real time. With commercials! That sucked.



HA! I don't understand that. "OMG, there's commercials on the TV". 99.8% of what I watch is live with commercials. Doesn't bother me. Guess I'm just not one of those "Tivo people".














The last time I recorded one of my shows I usually watch, because I wasn't home to watch it, I watched the commercials!! A. I didn't feel like constantly skipping crap and having to back up because I went too far past the commercials(that was also a pain in the ass back in VCR days). B. It just feels too rushed. I don't get the rush, I like to sit down and leisurely watch TV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17791149
> 
> 
> Meh. Downloading isn't much better. It's better in the sense that there isn't freezing or glitches caused by a live stream, but the PQ is only slightly better. I downloaded an entire season of Dexter on BT, the *x* is only slightly higher than SD broadcast but still significantly lower than 720p HDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HA! I don't understand that. "OMG, there's commercials on the TV". 99.8% of what I watch is live with commercials. Doesn't bother me. Guess I'm just not one of those "Tivo people".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The last time I recorded one of my shows I usually watch, because I wasn't home to watch it, I watched the commercials!! A. I didn't feel like constantly skipping crap and having to back up because I went too far past the commercials(that was also a pain in the ass back in VCR days). B. It just feels too rushed. I don't get the rush, I like to sit down and leisurely watch TV.



Why didn't you use your 30 second skip and tick so you don't skip too far past the commercials? Oh that's right. SA 8300 doesn't have that feature.


I think you're a little off on your percentage of people who watch commercials. Most people are not like you nickdawg. If they can avoid commercials they do. And I don't rush through a show. I pause when. I need to. Heck I even do that with live TV.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17790930
> 
> 
> I'm just so surprised that there is absolutely nothing worth watching during this time of the year. I ended up watching Animal Planet HD in real time. With commercials! That sucked.



I know, this have been the most boring day ever. Not a damn thing on at all. All those HD channels, nothing to watch.


FYI, Shrek is on ABC. Wow, it's f**king stunning. It goes to prove that WEWS is the best PQ station in the Cleveland market. I haven't seen an animated movie this good on any other cable or broadcast channel.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17791277
> 
> 
> I know, this have been the most boring day ever. Not a damn thing on at all. All those HD channels, nothing to watch.
> 
> 
> FYI, Shrek is on ABC. Wow, it's f**king stunning. It goes to prove that WEWS is the best PQ station in the Cleveland market. I haven't seen an animated movie this good on any other cable or broadcast channel.



Doesn't WEWS broadcast HD shows at only 720p? That's how they come across on my TWC cable anyway. Their picture quality is a little softer than the 1080i stations.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/17791594
> 
> 
> Doesn't WEWS broadcast HD shows at only 720p? That's how they come across on my TWC cable anyway. Their picture quality is a little softer than the 1080i stations.



Many people feel that 720p is better then 1080i. You'd have to be a true videophile to tell the difference. I've had both 720p and 1080i native televisions. Its my opinion that the best looking show on television is CSI:Miami. The second best looking show is Lost. One is 1080i and the other is 720p.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/17791594
> 
> 
> Doesn't WEWS broadcast HD shows at only 720p? That's how they come across on my TWC cable anyway. Their picture quality is a little softer than the 1080i stations.



Yes, WEWS(like the ABC network) broadcasts in 720p. WEWS is also the only network affiliate in Cleveland to broadcast without subchannels, which greatly helps the picture quality.


As far as 720p vs. 1080i goes, I tend to prefer 720p. With 1080i, the conditions have to be just right for good results(higher bandwidth, no subchannels). Both of those usually don't happen. Take WOIO CBS as an example. The PQ on WOIO is terrible. CBS has a reputation of having excellent HD PQ, at least on their subchannel free O&O stations. Not in Cleveland tho, with that useless weather sub.


1080i also isn't better on cable. I'd be happier with networks like USA HD if they would broadcast native 720p. Because of cable's need to broadcast 3 or 4 channels per QAM and the use of SDV, cable channels in 1080i look far worse than 720p stations. Channels like the MLB Network look fantastic OTOH.


CSI: Miami would be a good looking HD show, as long as you're not watching it on WOIO.


----------



## JoeySR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17789779
> 
> 
> I actually for the first time in 2 years don't have anything on my main TiVo that I really want to watch I recorded a few movies and rented Star Trek from Amazon.
> 
> 
> Star Treck was a good movie but a major disappointment. I didn't expect Dolby 5.1 but the sound was PCM 48 and to top it off it was Letter boxed. And not the larger letter box, it was real small. I stretched it as much as I could and I still had at least 4 inches top and bottom of screen.
> 
> 
> I'm going to take a look at Amazon again. I could have sworn that movie was suppose to be in HD and I know they do rent HD movies. Bummer.



I rented it last night from Amazon via my Roku and it was in HD.


----------



## nickdawg

Good news for anyone who wants to wach the Browns tomorrow, I just saw on ABC news that the blackout isn't happening tomorrow. Guess they "ate" the loss and are giving the tickets away again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoeySR* /forum/post/17791978
> 
> 
> I rented it last night from Amazon via my Roku and it was in HD.



Right you downloaded via Roku. I did it on the web.


----------



## hookbill

I'm currently showing readings on my modem indicating Received Power level -1.4 dBmV and Transmit Power level 43.3 dBmV. The transmit power level looks OK but isn't that received level off?


I've got TWC coming out again tomorrow to look at it. I suspect I'll get a new modem again. The person I spoke with at TWC said she saw a problem with the modem. Apparently anything that Scientific Atlanta makes is a pos, which kind of amazes me since Cisco is the one that owns. them. This will be my third modem in a year.


nickdawg this does not need to be followed by a lecture on how great DSL works for you, it went out for me much more frequently then Cable ever did and it's a snails pace compared to the speed I get. I'll never have anything to do with the phone company again. I suspect that you live fairly close to the phone company and that's why you have excellent service. I'm no where near the phone company.


Off topic but I'm also thinking about dropping Vonage. I just don't use it enough to justify having it around, I think I might just go with my wireless provider.


----------



## salemtubes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17791803
> 
> 
> WEWS is also the only network affiliate in Cleveland to broadcast without subchannels, which greatly helps the picture quality.



FOX affiliate WJW also broadcasts without subchannels.


----------



## scnrfrq

All the NFL games are on here now:
www.channelsurfing.net


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17792953
> 
> 
> I'm currently showing readings on my modem indicating Received Power level -1.4 dBmV and Transmit Power level 43.3 dBmV. The transmit power level looks OK but isn't that received level off?



DOCSIS specs allow for a receive level of -15dbmv to +15dbmv. The upstream TX level will adjust itself accordingly during the initial ranging period as it boots up. It's possible to have good levels but a poor s/n ratio for other reasons such as ingress. If this is the case, it's likely not the fault of the modem but could be something in the RF plant. Do you have an aerial drop and are there a lot of squirrels around?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17794737
> 
> 
> DOCSIS specs allow for a receive level of -15dbmv to +15dbmv. The upstream TX level will adjust itself accordingly during the initial ranging period as it boots up. It's possible to have good levels but a poor s/n ratio for other reasons such as ingress. If this is the case, it's likely not the fault of the modem but could be something in the RF plant. Do you have an aerial drop and are there a lot of squirrels around?



Lots of squirrels but the cable is underground as is our power cable. They ran new cable out there just this past Summer. CSR said she saw a problem with the modem. Is she looking at something different then what I see?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17794860
> 
> 
> Lots of squirrels but the cable is underground as is our power cable. They ran new cable out there just this past Summer. CSR said she saw a problem with the modem. Is she looking at something different then what I see?



Typically the cable operator is able to read the real time signal level, SNR, BER, CPE mac address, signal flaps, uptime and some historical performance data. They can also see how other modems fed by the same CMTS blade are performing, which can help isolate issues between a modem and the CMTS. Between the DOCSIS data and other SNMP traps they can get a pretty good picture of what's going on.


----------



## nickdawg







Just sayin. It's another option. Probly more reliable than TWC. But then again, what isn't?


----------



## nickdawg

I noticed something strange with TWC, FOX News is coming through as 1080i. Ever since I reset the box for HD it's been doing 720p and 1080i(changing formats between stations). All the FOX networks like the ABC networks broadcast in 720p(and my box reflects that). But on 485, FNCHD is 1080i while FBNHD and F/XHD are 720p. Must be something TWC is doing, probly related to SDV.

























> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken H* /forum/post/1297963
> 
> _Fox News Channel HD - broadcasting 720p_
> 
> Fox News Channel is a 24-hour general news service devoted to delivering fair and balanced coverage of the day's news events. Reaching more than 90 million homes, the network offers 18 hours of live programming weekdays, covering breaking news around the globe, as well as political, business and entertainment news. FNC is the most watched cable news channel in America and is home to a number of well-respected journalists including Brit Hume, Chris Wallace, Shepard Smith and Greta van Susteren. The network's signature opinion program, The O'Reilly Factor is one of the highest rated shows in cable news.
> http://www.foxnews.com/


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17795808
> 
> 
> Typically the cable operator is able to read the real time signal level, SNR, BER, CPE mac address, signal flaps, uptime and some historical performance data. They can also see how other modems fed by the same CMTS blade are performing, which can help isolate issues between a modem and the CMTS. Between the DOCSIS data and other SNMP traps they can get a pretty good picture of what's going on.



Well cable guy came out and really did what he could which is exactly what the guy previous to him did. Not much, just checked out the signal coming in, made sure everything was tightened up and declared he didn't know what the problem was. Understandably he said that unless they are here at the time of the outage it's tough to diagnose.


I told him all the things that had been done previously. He said best thing he could recommend for me is to log when I see it's down and if it still doing it in a couple of weeks then ask for a maintenance person to come out. Why this just doesn't happen anyway, I don't know but that's where I'm at with it now.


Hasn't gone out today. Only went out twice yesterday.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17795934
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just sayin. It's another option. Probly more reliable than TWC. But then again, what isn't?



Actually as cheap as you are nickdawg I'm surprised this isn't your choice. After all you have no need for any of this modern fancy high speed stuff so why even pay for DSL?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17800146
> 
> 
> Actually as cheap as you are nickdawg I'm surprised this isn't your choice. After all you have no need for any of this modern fancy high speed stuff so why even pay for DSL?



I'd do anything to save a buck, but I won't do that.







I had dial up internet service until 2007, I'm never going back to that again. Plus since I download TV shows, that would be impossible. Instead of watching my Sowtime series now, I'd still be waiting for the download into next year.










And yes, as slow as it was, that dial up internet service was very reliable. Very rarely would it get bumped offline. Sounds better than TWC.


----------



## scnrfrq

Here's the FOX site to counter TW's ridiculous Get Tough website:
http://www.keepfoxon.com/fox


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17802238
> 
> 
> Here's the FOX site to counter TW's ridiculous Get Tough website:
> http://www.keepfoxon.com/fox



Whatever. We are at there mercy. At least I am. But I will fight back via BT. I won't miss any of my favorite FOX shows.


Of course that means for you nickdawg you'll have to BT American Idol. I know you'll hate missing the vote.










It appears that WEWS is not a problem at this point.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17802298
> 
> 
> Whatever. We are at there mercy. At least I am. But I will fight back via BT. I won't miss any of my favorite FOX shows.
> 
> 
> Of course that means for you nickdawg you'll have to BT American Idol. I know you'll hate missing the vote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It appears that WEWS is not a problem at this point.



I have good luck with OTA + converter box, so I'm ready for WEWS or WJW to go away. If any series is starting on F/X I'd have to go to BT. I think Rescue Me and Sons of Anarchy are off of now. But I'd still be pissed to miss the other programming and movies on F/X. Oh, and the fact that I'm paying a buttload of money for a service lacking channels everyone else has. It's already bad enough we don't get HD Net or NLF Network, now F/X? How pathetic is TWC?


Butt at least we have Start Over. What a helpful feature, now I can "start over" all my favorite original programming on VH1, BET, TBS and TNT. You know how much I love those channels!!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17800125
> 
> 
> I told him all the things that had been done previously. He said best thing he could recommend for me is to log when I see it's down and if it still doing it in a couple of weeks then ask for a maintenance person to come out. Why this just doesn't happen anyway, I don't know but that's where I'm at with it now.
> 
> 
> Hasn't gone out today. Only went out twice yesterday.



When it goes out, does the cable/sync light go out or start flashing, or does it remain on steady? This can help to identify whether the problem is between your modem and the CMTS or elsewhere.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17802448
> 
> 
> When it goes out, does the cable/sync light go out or start flashing, or does it remain on steady? This can help to identify whether the problem is between your modem and the CMTS or elsewhere.



Cable/sync light states on. And the modem data lights are flashing. I explained all this to the cable guy. It hasn't gone out at all today.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17803286
> 
> 
> Cable/sync light states on. And the modem data lights are flashing. I explained all this to the cable guy. It hasn't gone out at all today.



Then the issue seems to be pointing away from the outside plant. Does your computer connect directly via ethernet cable or via wireless? If you're connecting wirelessly, try using a wired connection when it happens in order to rule out any local RFI from other devices, including microwave ovens, wireless baby monitors/cameras, bluetooth headsets, even IPhones. I looked at an IPhone on a spectrum analyzer recently and I was astounded at the amount of broadband RFI it generates, including 2.4ghz junk. Personally I'm surprised that those things passed FCC type acceptance.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17803586
> 
> 
> Then the issue seems to be pointing away from the outside plant. Does your computer connect directly via ethernet cable or via wireless? If you're connecting wirelessly, try using a wired connection when it happens in order to rule out any local RFI from other devices, including microwave ovens, wireless baby monitors/cameras, bluetooth headsets, even IPhones. I looked at an IPhone on a spectrum analyzer recently and I was astounded at the amount of broadband RFI it generates, including 2.4ghz junk. Personally I'm surprised that those things passed FCC type acceptance.



Interesting you mention iPhone. I have a Droid and I am connected by wifi. My wife uses a laptop also wireless. It went out tonight at 9:20 pm. Both of use were using our wireless devices.


But the other day it went out and both of us were on our computers which are wired to the network. So it happens either way, wired and wireless.


Any other ideas?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17803698
> 
> 
> Interesting you mention iPhone. I have a Droid and I am connected by wifi. My wife uses a laptop also wireless. It went out tonight at 9:20 pm. Both of use were using our wireless devices.
> 
> 
> But the other day it went out and both of us were on our computers which are wired to the network. So it happens either way, wired and wireless.
> 
> 
> Any other ideas?



Last suggestion for the night before we get back to discussing HDTV. When it goes down, open up a command prompt and try running a traceroute to a known service, i.e. google -


tracert www.google.com 


This will produce a list showing each hop that you take from your computer to google's server farm. Make note of where the trace dies (or the response time gets large). Try this a couple of times to different sites and see if you get high latency at the same point for each traceroute.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17803698
> 
> 
> Any other ideas?



I've seen some weird stuff happen when neighbouring wireless networks step on each other... Depending on the situation, this can also break wired connections...


While your connection is working, run "ipconfig /all", "route print", and "arp -a" from both wired and wireless computers, then save the output of each to a file. I'd be interested to see any changes that show up when you run those commands the next time the connection dies.


----------



## hookbill

A


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17805004
> 
> 
> I've seen some weird stuff happen when neighbouring wireless networks step on each other... Depending on the situation, this can also break wired connections...
> 
> 
> While your connection is working, run "ipconfig /all", "route printi.
> 
> and "arp -a" from both wired and wireless computers, then save the output of each to a file. I'd be interested to see any changes that show up when you run those commands the next time the connection dies.



I appreciate the suggestions. Since I run a mac those commands wont get me very far.


I'm just going to keep my log of outages and let TW fix it. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17802238
> 
> 
> Here's the FOX site to counter TW's ridiculous Get Tough website:
> http://www.keepfoxon.com/fox



And another take on the subject, including speculation the networks may even end free OTA transmissions in the future.
http://www.newsnet5.com/money/220774...06000112292009


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17805451
> 
> 
> And another take on the subject, including speculation the networks may even end free OTA transmissions in the future.
> http://www.newsnet5.com/money/220774...06000112292009



I just heard this on WEWS. A google came up with this for me:

http://www.miamiherald.com/entertain...y/1401463.html 


It looks like they plan on squeezing us and showing commercials. Amazing!! Hopefully the FCC does something about this. Apparently there would be no network broadcast television. You would have to subscribe to something to get television.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17805112
> 
> *Since I run a mac* those commands wont get me very far.



Well, there's your problem!! You're using a mac!! lol

























> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17809684
> 
> 
> I just heard this on WEWS. A google came up with this for me:
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/entertain...y/1401463.html
> 
> 
> It looks like they plan on squeezing us and showing commercials. Amazing!! Hopefully the FCC does something about this. Apparently there would be no network broadcast television. You would have to subscribe to something to get television.



I heard that on WEWS too. What a load of crap. If I have to subscribe to cable or satellite as the only way to get TV, I think I'd rather just throw my TV away. F**k it.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17809833
> 
> 
> Well, there's your problem!! You're using a mac!! lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard that on WEWS too. What a load of crap. If I have to subscribe to cable or satellite as the only way to get TV, I think I'd rather just throw my TV away. F**k it.



I'm starting to wonder if everyday you wake up their is a TWC employee standing on your kitchen table and taking a piss in your fruit loops.


----------



## hookbill

Its been updated. I finally got around to calling them on Sunday.


----------



## hookbill





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17811871
> 
> 
> Yepp. You thought right. The TWC guy and the Mac guy both piss in my fruit loops every morning.



Then there's the TiVo guy. The Vonage guy. WKYC. WOIO. I'm sure there's a bunch of others.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17809684
> 
> 
> I just heard this on WEWS. A google came up with this for me:
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/entertain...y/1401463.html
> 
> 
> It looks like they plan on squeezing us and showing commercials. Amazing!! Hopefully the FCC does something about this. Apparently there would be no network broadcast television. You would have to subscribe to something to get television.



I doubt the FCC could do much about it. If a network wants to end their OTA public air wave transmissions and go strictly cable/sat, what could the FCC do about it? It would be no different than Clear Channel deciding the AM/FM market is no longer a good business model and move to sat and internet broadcasting.










Personally I watch so little network TV (a big part of the reason the networks are struggling) I'd barely notice they were gone if they all just stopped broadcasting all together.


We wait, we see. I'd bet one does jump ship as stated in the article, the remaining networks might restructure their affiliate network and stay on OTA, who knows.


If 90% of my business came from one distribution channel and the remaining 10% distribution was costly and overly regulated, I too would seriously look at switching solely to the better distribution method.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17812748
> 
> 
> I doubt the FCC could do much about it. If a network wants to end their OTA public air wave transmissions and go strictly cable/sat, what could the FCC do about it? It would be no different than Clear Channel deciding the AM/FM market is no longer a good business model and move to sat and internet broadcasting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I watch so little network TV (a big part of the reason the networks are struggling) I'd barely notice they were gone if they all just stopped broadcasting all together.
> 
> 
> We wait, we see. I'd bet one does jump ship as stated in the article, the remaining networks might restructure their affiliate network and stay on OTA, who knows.
> 
> 
> If 90% of my business came from one distribution channel and the remaining 10% distribution was costly and overly regulated, I too would seriously look at switching solely to the better distribution method.



I disagree. I think the FCC has not only the power but the duty to protect people from stuff like this.


These stations are supposed to be broadcasting not only to make money but for the public good. Removing access from those who can't afford is not in the public interest. I see them getting very involved with this.


Another point too, and this is just how different people watch television, 90% of what I record (or better) at this time of the year is broadcast network television. I stocked up so much last year that not one single rerun ran across my television. While I don't think that's going to fly this year, I want to at least come close to that by the Spring. But we shall see. I can only transfer those shows that are on broadcast television to my TiVo to Go, although this year I have such huge hard drive space I probably won't be transferring much of anything. Still I would like to capture an entire series and watch it during the summer when nothing else is on, if possible.


Tick tock.... Two more days. Only question is will I be getting 24 this year on WJW or watching it off of bit torrent?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17812933
> 
> 
> I disagree. I think the FCC has not only the power but the duty to protect people from stuff like this.
> 
> 
> These stations are supposed to be broadcasting not only to make money but for the public good. Removing access from those who can't afford is not in the public interest. I see them getting very involved with this.....



Yes, but the "public good" extends as far as their FCC OTA license.


*IF* they want to stay on the public air waves they obviously must comply with the FCC rules & regs. But these are private business' that *voluntarily* applied for and maintain their FCC license to broadcast OTA. They could cease OTA broadcasting and the FCC would be powerless to do anything about it (thank god). Numerous independent stations (TV, AM, FM) all under FCC licensing have come and gone, and some regions don't even have certain network affiliates broadcasting.


The Cleveland market almost had this very situation a few years back when ch 8 (then the CBS affiliate) became FOX. If 19 and/or 43 did not want to become a CBS affiliate we would have had no CBS OTA broadcasts in the Cleveland market. (I don't remember the details of this as I never followed it that closely, might have been the other way that CBS left ch 8, leaving them with only FOX as choice of a national network or go independent). The point is, it does happen.


I don't see the FCC mandating network coverage in all areas nor forcing a station to stay on the air when it is financially stupid to do so.










I'm not suggesting all of the networks are in such dire financial condition, but they have shareholders they are accountable too. And I'm telling you, if the small % of OTA viewers are costing them way too much money to continue such broadcasting, these private business' can give back their FCC OTA license and go make movies and sitcoms in Russia if they wish.


----------



## speedyd718

here the plain dealers take on the situation (twc v. fox). i'm just glad that wjw and fox sports will be on. less of a worry than last year.


you should have seen my wife and i panicking about what to do with no nick jr shows for our, then 1yr old, son







.

http://www.cleveland.com/tv/index.ss...e_over_fe.html


----------



## hookbill

This is good news, other then FX I don't see anything else I care about and my FX shows don't start until Spring or Summer.

_Doesn't the Federal Communication Commission require local channels and programs?

Yes, this fight obscures an enduring fact -- networks and their affiliate stations still must broadcast programming for free over the public airwaves. About 11 percent of the population still opts for the free broadcasts, though they need converter boxes or digital televisions to receive digital signals, said an FCC spokeswoman. Most viewers receive network programming through cable or a satellite dish._


I was right about the FCC. Stations can't just arbitrarily stop broadcasting OTA. They have a public duty to do so.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17815655
> 
> 
> This is good news, other then FX I don't see anything else I care about and my FX shows don't start until Spring or Summer.
> 
> _Doesn't the Federal Communication Commission require local channels and programs?
> 
> Yes, this fight obscures an enduring fact -- networks and their affiliate stations still must broadcast programming for free over the public airwaves. About 11 percent of the population still opts for the free broadcasts, though they need converter boxes or digital televisions to receive digital signals, said an FCC spokeswoman. Most viewers receive network programming through cable or a satellite dish._
> 
> 
> I was right about the FCC. Stations can't just arbitrarily stop broadcasting OTA. They have a public duty to do so.



Yes, as long as they wish to *have* an FCC licensing to do so.


They are ONLY required to follow FCC rules & regs as long as they have and maintain an FCC OTA broadcast license. If they do not renew such licensing and end such OTA transmissions, what is the FCC going to do? Arrest the CBS board members for NOT broadcasting without a license?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17816223
> 
> 
> Yes, as long as they wish to *have* an FCC licensing to do so.
> 
> 
> They are ONLY required to follow FCC rules & regs as long as they have and maintain an FCC OTA broadcast license. If they do not renew such licensing and end such OTA transmissions, what is the FCC going to do? Arrest the CBS board members for NOT broadcasting without a license?



I don't know about you but my 57 years worth of life on this planet has told me that there are certain things in this world you can't avoid. Death, taxes, and government regulations and that doesn't matter if your a Republican or Democrat. Somehow I just don't see broadcasters unilaterally taking their ball and going home just because they feel like it.


Look, I'm not saying ha ha, I was right you were wrong. I'm saying they just can't do it as easily as you may have thought. And the article points out that such a move won't happen for many years to come.


I was surprised to see only 11% of people receive OTA anymore. Interesting.


I'm thrilled that we won't miss the FOX network programs. Something actually good came out of that sale of WJW. And now nickdawg will still be able to vote on his favorite show, American Idol.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17816371
> 
> 
> I don't know about you but my 57 years worth of life on this planet has told me that there are certain things in this world you can't avoid. Death, taxes, and government regulations and that doesn't matter if your a Republican or Democrat. Somehow I just don't see broadcasters unilaterally taking their ball and going home just because they feel like it.
> 
> 
> Look, I'm not saying ha ha, I was right you were wrong. I'm saying they just can't do it as easily as you may have thought. And the article points out that such a move won't happen for many years to come.
> 
> 
> I was surprised to see only 11% of people receive OTA anymore. Interesting.
> 
> 
> I'm thrilled that we won't miss the FOX network programs. Something actually good came out of that sale of WJW. And now nickdawg will still be able to vote on his favorite show, American Idol.



As always I do respect your opinion and your sense of humour, truly.

BTW: Happy New Year to you and the Mrs. (and the birds)










Yes, I'm aware a broadcaster can't just turn OFF their OTA switch on a whim, short of going out of business. I assume the FCC rules & regs include a legally binding time period as well as the right *to* broadcast.


But it _is_ just as simple as I've stated. If a broadcaster (network, independent, affiliate, whatever) wants to stop broadcasting under it's FCC OTA license, they simply need not renew such license. At that point they are under no obligation to continue "the public good" under that FCC license.


Do I think this will happen in the near future? No. But I do think this is an eventuality that some could well end OTA broadcasts in the next decade. The market segment is just too small (and shrinking, save the current economic cycle). With (possibly) only two private networks left as OTA broadcasters maybe they can make it worth their while dividing up the 11% remaining OTA viewers (probably 7% by the time this might happen). I'd bet you this very subject is a common discussion in network boardrooms (as is hinted at in the article I posted).










Also, I'd bet that 11% is not including (or is inaccurately counting) dual use households like myself (and you I believe) that use both OTA and cable/sat.


AMERICAN IDLE RULES!


----------



## clevemkt

Posted on January 29, 2009 by David Oxenford from Broadcast Law Blog

Steps to Take When A Broadcast Station Goes Silent


Comments In these challenging economic times, it seems like almost every day we see a notice that a broadcast station has gone silent while the owner evaluates what to do with the facility. This seems particularly common among AM stations - many of which have significant operating costs and, in recent times, often minimal revenues. The DTV transition deadline (whenever that may be) may also result in a number of TV stations that don't finish their DTV buildout in time being forced to go dark. While these times may call for these economic measures to cut costs to preserve the operations of other stations that are bringing in revenue, broadcasters must remember that there are specific steps that must be taken at the FCC to avoid fines or other problems down the road.


One of the first issues to be addressed is the requirement that the FCC be informed of the fact that a station has gone silent. Once a station has ceased operations for 10 days, a notice must be filed with the the FCC providing notification that the station is not operational. If the station remains silent for 30 days, specific permission, in the form of a request for Special Temporary Authority to remain silent, must be sought from the FCC. The rules refer to reasons beyond the control of the licensee as providing justification for the station being off the air. Traditionally, the FCC has wanted a licensee to demonstrate that there has been a technical issue that has kept the station off the air. The Commission was reluctant to accept financial concerns as providing justification for the station being silent - especially if there was no clear plan to sell the station or to promptly return it to the air. Perhaps the current economic climate may cause the FCC to be more understanding - at least for some period of time.


However, several years ago Congress added a new consideration to the Commission's evaluation of silent stations. That was the adoption of Section 312(g) of the Communications Act, that says that if a station is of the air for 12 consecutive months, then the station's license will automatically expire. While that statute has since been amended to give the Commission the authority to reinstate such an expired license "to promote equity and fairness," it still provides a powerful deterrent against stations staying silent, as the Commission is reluctant to find that this exception is met. Even if there are technical reasons for the station being silent, if the conditions persist for a full year and no operation (even at a limited power) is restored, the license may well be forfeited. So, if you want to preserve the license, don't allow a station to remain silent for a full year.


Another important consideration is the station's tower lighting and marking. Just because a station is off the air does not mean that the owner can ignore the station's tower. If there are requirements that the tower have obstruction lights, those lights must be kept operational even if the station is not. Any required tower painting must be kept visible as well. Station owners who have ignored these requirements have been fined by the FCC.


Desperate times call for desperate measures - just follow the proper procedures to avoid problems


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17812933
> 
> 
> I disagree. I think the FCC has not only the power but the duty to protect people from stuff like this.
> 
> 
> These stations are supposed to be broadcasting not only to make money but for the public good. Removing access from those who can't afford is not in the public interest. I see them getting very involved with this.



Sure, maybe one major network will be allowed to close, not including CW or MNTV. But if CBS, FOX and ABC also wanted to jump off the OTA ship, the FCC would definitely get involved. Public good is *very* important in broadcast TV. It's the very reason why the DTV transition happened in June instead of February. If they were worried about only 1 million people not being able to receive the programming b/c they don't have the proper equipment at the time, just imagine if everyone faced losing free OTA?


Honestly I think the whole thing is very sad. Cable networks are NO better than broadcast networks, you still get tons of commercials, bugs/snipes; except you have to pay for the cable channels(and the bugs and commercials on them!).


The problem is the programming. And the FCC is also responsible for hurting the networks. Since the FCC is a slave to all the old timey, bass ackwards Puritans in this country, we have ridiculous "regulations" that hurt broadcast TV. You can have severe nudity and swearing on a show on F/X at 10pm, good luck with that on ABC or CBS. George Lopez can say "s--t" at 11pm on TBS, good luck trying that Conan.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17815655
> 
> 
> Stations can't just arbitrarily stop broadcasting OTA. They have a public duty to do so.



Unless you are the CBS or FOX affiliate in Cleveland. Are they even "on the air" anymore? Many people would probly answer "no" thanks to that VHF BS.


Another side effect of this TWC crap. How do they expect their customers, who had a year and a half lecture how "Timewarner customers don't need to do ANYTHING for the DTV transition" to get OTA channels if they don't have a converter? This is not 2008, you can't just plug rabbit ears into an analog TV and expect a signal!


----------



## scnrfrq

A glimmer of hope that we won't lose TW channels on Friday:
http://rolloverorgettough.com/sites/...rry_letter.pdf


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/17810455
> 
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if everyday you wake up their is a TWC employee standing on your kitchen table and taking a piss in your fruit loops.




LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!


No disrespect to our friend Nick, considering his cable problems and he is a great poster! However, that quote was one of the funniest things I have read on the board!!! Thanks Mike!


Jack


----------



## hookbill

Just a quick note on my on going internet issue. We've discovered that we lose our connection every day at 9:20 am and 9:20 pm! Is that bazaar or what? I'm in touch with a supervisor at the Concord Office and he can't explain it. Someone is suppose to come out again today, a maintenance person. There was suppose to be someone out yesterday but I never saw him.


Maybe he can clear my driveway if nothing else?










Back on topic regarding this roll over or get tough stuff, there is something going on with FX that I'm watching. Nip/Tuck. The next episode is 1/6 and I believe there are 6 more episodes after that and then the series is over. Right now that would be the only problem I would have if we don't get those channels starting tomorrow.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17816951
> 
> 
> A glimmer of hope that we won't lose TW channels on Friday:
> http://rolloverorgettough.com/sites/...rry_letter.pdf



Oh well, looks like FOX is being as pig-headed as TW. Let's hope they get SPEED back on before the Daytona speed weeks......
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/...ss_money_16350


----------



## Norm78

Hook-I am a big fan of Nip/Tuck as well. I know Hulu has full episodes of the show, just don't know how quick they post them after the original air date. FYI, if you have some type of media center, IE a PS3 or something similar you can stream Hulu from your PC via the PlayOn application.


----------



## azporter

Well, apparently we have too much time on our hands so we adopted two puppies AND got a Tivo HD.


I called TWC in advance of receiving the box to schedule a cablecard/TA install. Had a nice chat with the CSR for some time. She was able to quote me the cablecard price and knew about the tuning adapter without me mentioning it. She couldn't figure out how to get the order to post in her system even after asking around and she's been there 3 years. I had to be kicked to a "resolution specialist" who is supposed to call me back to get the order in. I wish I could expect that this will be the most difficult part of getting the Tivo enabled.


----------



## its.mike

I think I'm the only one hoping that FOX and CrapWarner don't reach an agreement. I mean CW raises their rates at least twice a year because they can, and then when a network raises its fee's they throw a hissy fit.


Plus I download all the tv shows I watch anyway. So losing "The ******* Channel" Speed, and Fx(Which only has about 3 decent shows anyway) isn't a big deal for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/17823145
> 
> 
> Well, apparently we have too much time on our hands so we adopted two puppies AND got a Tivo HD.
> 
> 
> I called TWC in advance of receiving the box to schedule a cablecard/TA install. Had a nice chat with the CSR for some time. She was able to quote me the cablecard price and knew about the tuning adapter without me mentioning it. She couldn't figure out how to get the order to post in her system even after asking around and she's been there 3 years. I had to be kicked to a "resolution specialist" who is supposed to call me back to get the order in. I wish I could expect that this will be the most difficult part of getting the Tivo enabled.



All I can say it lots of luck and the following advice: When they come out to install the cable card make sure they follow the instructions TiVo gave you to hand to them. Don't let them just do it on their own.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17822143
> 
> 
> Back on topic regarding this roll over or get tough stuff, there is something going on with FX that I'm watching. Nip/Tuck. The next episode is 1/6 and I believe there are 6 more episodes after that and then the series is over. Right now that would be the only problem I would have if we don't get those channels starting tomorrow.



I saw an ad the other day, it's the final 9(i think) episodes starting in January. They're not gonna give into "FOX's outrageous demands". $1 for the series finale of Nip tuck is more than worth it.


And I absolutely refuse, will not watch it online. When TWC was playing crybaby with LIN TV, they told their customers to "watch your NBC programming online". *Eff you!*!! I do not pay over $100 a month for *HDTV service* for my 50 inch HDTV set just so I can squint at a 380i/p You Tube video on a 15 inch computer screen.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17823696
> 
> 
> All I can say it lots of luck and the following advice: When they come out to install the cable card make sure they follow the instructions TiVo gave you to hand to them. Don't let them just do it on their own.



Thanks. Yes, I've already printed out a copy and explained the situation to my bitter half so she's fully aware of the situation as well. We've had enough run-ins with TWC technicians that couldn't isolate signal issues (we're in a development that's not yet built out and new houses being connected periodically) that we are very wary of TWC personnel that don't know what they are doing. I just hope I get a call back in a timely manner.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17823725
> 
> 
> I saw an ad the other day, it's the final 9(i think) episodes starting in January. They're not gonna give into "FOX's outrageous demands". $1 for the series finale of Nip tuck is more than worth it.
> 
> 
> And I absolutely refuse, will not watch it online. When TWC was playing crybaby with LIN TV, they told their customers to "watch your NBC programming online". *Eff you!*!! I do not pay over $100 a month for *HDTV service* for my 50 inch HDTV set just so I can squint at a 380i/p You Tube video on a 15 inch computer screen.



15 inch screen huh? Gee that's too bad if you had an iMac you could have a large 24" screen like I do.










But seriously I would never watch it on my computer either. As I said earlier I'll BT it, and in 720p too. I'm not sure who the bad guys are anymore. Fox won't give us a bone and extend broadcasting while negotiating. They won't go to binding arbitration. FOX is starting to look more and more like the bad guy.


Then again, come on. a buck a customer. TW are you so cheap that you can't reach into your massive profits and give them a buck more?


----------



## nickdawg

 http://rolloverorgettough.com/zipcode/44310 


I went to that stoopid "roll over or get tough" website and they have what channels are affected by zip code. Apparently Food Network is listed too.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17824599
> 
> http://rolloverorgettough.com/zipcode/44310
> 
> 
> I went to that stoopid "roll over or get tough" website and they have what channels are affected by zip code. Apparently Food Network is listed too.



That's odd. All I lose is The Hillbilly Music Channel and FX
http://rolloverorgettough.com/zipcode/44705


----------



## hookbill

Happy New Year. It's 12:50 am and with no agreement FXHD is still on.


----------



## mbclev

I've just checked the Orlando Bright House Networks thread, and someone said that there has been an extension to the Fox-Time Warner negotiations until 3 A.M., Eastern time. (Time Warner negotiates for Bright House Networks.)


----------



## nickdawg

Food Network and HGTV went dark at midnight on Cablevision.


That's odd cuz it was listed on TWC's website too. Wonder whats gonna be turned off tomorrow.


----------



## hookbill

O


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/17825943
> 
> 
> I've just checked the Orlando HDTV thread, and someone said that there has been an extension to the Fox-Time Warner negotiations until 3 A.M., Eastern time. (Time Warner negotiates for that area's cable company, Bright House Networks.)



Yes that's what I'm reading. That means it will go to 12am PST.


----------



## nickdawg

Niptuck commercial on F/X right now. F/X better be on my TV when that begins...


Roll over you stupid ****s at Time Warner!


----------



## hookbill

First thing I did was check to see if FX was still on. It was. Next I grabbed my Droid and surfed to see what happened.


Apparently some type of deal has been worked out to carry FOX through the weekend, but beyond that who knows. The main thing is TW and FOX are talking and from what I read the talks are cordial.


I think Cablevision and Bright House may be having some issues, not that any of that is our concern. Not sure if FOX is still on but apparently Cablevision pulled the plug on Scripts saying it will not air anymore of their networks. I think that might be Food or some other garbage I never look at.


So the drama will return on Sunday night I imagine if nothing is set up permanently with FOX again. I want Nip/Talk in glorious HD so I can see all the bloody gross operations.







Just kidding, but I really want to see the final episodes - I think it's 6 not 9. Damages is due to start soon and they don't usually run the two series at the same time.


When you think about it either one of them are in a good position. Satellite companies have announced they are prepared to take over if anything stalls out and FOX just can't afford to lose all the viewers in New York and Los Angeles, something like 16 million viewers.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17826478
> 
> 
> First thing I did was check to see if FX was still on. It was. Next I grabbed my Droid and surfed to see what happened.
> 
> 
> Apparently some type of deal has been worked out to carry FOX through the weekend, but beyond that who knows. The main thing is TW and FOX are talking and from what I read the talks are cordial.
> 
> 
> I think Cablevision and Bright House may be having some issues, not that any of that is our concern. Not sure if FOX is still on but apparently Cablevision pulled the plug on Scripts saying it will not air anymore of their networks. I think that might be Food or some other garbage I never look at.
> 
> 
> So the drama will return on Sunday night I imagine if nothing is set up permanently with FOX again. I want Nip/Talk in glorious HD so I can see all the bloody gross operations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding, but I really want to see the final episodes - I think it's 6 not 9. Damages is due to start soon and they don't usually run the two series at the same time.
> 
> 
> When you think about it either one of them are in a good position. Satellite companies have announced they are prepared to take over if anything stalls out and FOX just can't afford to lose all the viewers in New York and Los Angeles, something like 16 million viewers.



Wikipedia has Season 7(6.5) slated as 9 episodes. Which makes sense as they'll end at episode 100. But like I said I just get the 720p rips online and stream to the tv via an xbox360.


----------



## hookbill

Maybe we're both wrong. Could there be 8 episodes left?

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ni...t-ending-soon/


----------



## dleising

Do the TWC legacy and old Adelphia digital cable systems use different feeds for the SD local channels? I noticed the "WKYCd" name on the old Adelphia system when I was at a relitives house. They also look a lot better than the same channels on my SDTV hooked up to a digital box...


----------



## hookbill

CNN is reporting that TWC and Fox have reached an agreement. I'm on my Droid so I can't provide a link.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17830549
> 
> 
> CNN is reporting that TWC and Fox have reached an agreement. I'm on my Droid so I can't provide a link.



That is correct.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/...-dispute_N.htm


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17828788
> 
> 
> Maybe we're both wrong. Could there be 8 episodes left?
> 
> http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ni...t-ending-soon/



Thats from 2008. They announced a while ago they where going to end at 100. Originally is supposed to go as a winter filler but something got axed before fall so we got season 6 early.


----------



## quern

Hello All: I've been dealing with TWC here in Mayfield for the past three years. Thanks to this site I've had the necessary contact information to get me past the horrible customer service that TWC is known for. My recent cable bill arrived and my costs have risen due to my 1 year contract expiring.


I have a TIVOHD and love the UI, picture quality, etc... the thing I can't stand is having to reset the SDV tuning adapter once a month... or having to call TWC to try and get them to hit me with a new signal when a reboot of the TA doesn't work.


So here I am, debating whether or not to stick it out with TWC or make a move and try U-Verse. I see that consumer reports ranks U-Verse highly for the second year in a row and I've heard the picture quality is great. Of course making this change means my TivoHD will be sitting on my shelf or end up being sold. I know my Tivo subscription is up for renewal shortly (if it hasn't already done so).


So my question to you all is...Is U-Verse worth the switch, or do I hang on to TWC and hope they resolve the quality issues I continue to have? I'm willing to call and ask for better rates again...


Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


----------



## hookbill

Why do you need to stop TiVo with U-Verse? They are compatible.

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...d.php?t=403303 .


If I could get U-Verse I'd drop TWC like a hot potato.


Edit: Make sure you can record more then 1 HD show at a time. I seem to remember that being an issue, not with TiVo but with U-Verse.


----------



## quern

hookbill: After reading that thread more, and reviewing tivo's web site, it still shows the tivohd as being incompatible with U-verse. That was one of the first things I did.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/17839701
> 
> 
> hookbill: After reading that thread more, and reviewing tivo's web site, it still shows the tivohd as being incompatible with U-verse. That was one of the first things I did.



I read the first two posts, I didn't read the whole thread.


At the end of your service contract? Well, as I said in my edit if they can deliver more then 1 HD show at a time, go for it. It's just too much hassle even for a TiVo.


It's a shame that other areas can have the tuner adapter and no issues and we get the shaft over here.


----------



## Shark73

Hi guys! I've been away from AVS for a while....can anyone give me an update on AT & T U-Verse? Good, bad or ugly? I'm in Strongsville currently with TWC.


Thanks in advance for the input.


Jim


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/17841131
> 
> 
> Hi guys! I've been away from AVS for a while....can anyone give me an update on AT & T U-Verse? Good, bad or ugly? I'm in Strongsville currently with TWC.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for the input.
> 
> 
> Jim



Last I heard, the picture quality wasn't as good with U-verse as it was with either satellite or TWC. I have no complaints about my TWC picture quality, so I passed on U-verse. Also, you may have to get new cable outlets in your house for u-verse, since they can't use the TWC connections. That was another reason I passed.


----------



## toby10

Next round: Cablevision & Scripps.....
http://www.newsnet5.com/technology/2...06000101042010 


Bottom line is that we customers of any pay services (sat & cable) are going to see some pretty sharp increases in our monthly bills in the near future as these networks and broadcasters get bolder and bolder.


Can't blame them wanting to get more for their product/service, but it's gonna cost us.


----------



## nickdawg

Those people at WJW sure are smart. They can put their school closing monstrosity over the Judge Judy show without reducing the picture size so you know, we can see the Judge Judy graphics.


And apparently the commercials are so sacred they cannot be desecrated by any graphics at all.


The morons who made that graphic should be in Judy's court. Fire the idiots.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17847814
> 
> 
> Those people at WJW sure are smart. They can put their school closing monstrosity over the Judge Judy show without reducing the picture size so you know, we can see the Judge Judy graphics.
> 
> 
> And apparently the commercials are so sacred they cannot be desecrated by any graphics at all.
> 
> 
> The morons who made that graphic should be in Judy's court. Fire the idiots.



And one of the locals (I think CBS, possibly FOX) put the all important "it's January in NEO so there might be snow" warning RIGHT OVER the entire score graphics during the football game.


I honestly don't know who's dumber, the idiots that rely on such trivial crap or the local brainiac engineer who places such needless information in such an obstructive manner.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17848304
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know who's dumber, the idiots that rely on such trivial crap or the local brainiac engineer who places such needless information in such an obstructive manner.



I vote for the idiot as the dumber. If the braniac engineer didn't run those messages, the idiot would sue the station when they got in a wreck - "but my TV didn't tell me there was snow outside"...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17848304
> 
> 
> And one of the locals (I think CBS, possibly FOX) put the all important "it's January in NEO so there might be snow" warning RIGHT OVER the entire score graphics during the football game.
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know who's dumber, the idiots that rely on such trivial crap or the local brainiac engineer who places such needless information in such an obstructive manner.



FOX had college football tonight. Wait, FOX had a graphic over the football game? Was it shown in SD? Unless something changed very recently, the way the splicer system is set up with FOX the affiliates can't do anything with the HD feed. They have to downconvert to SD and then insert the graphics. The weather and DTV crawls work that way, the school closings should be the same.


I blame the engineers. They seem to think they need a huge, garish, obtrusive, flashy graphic to display this info. A simple one line text crawl would accomplish the same job as 19's sadistic, always on three scrolling lines of death. It's not like that on the Youngstown stations.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/17848304
> 
> 
> And one of the locals (I think CBS, possibly FOX) put the all important "it's January in NEO so there might be snow" warning RIGHT OVER the entire score graphics during the football game.
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know who's dumber, the idiots that rely on such trivial crap or the local brainiac engineer who places such needless information in such an obstructive manner.



Even worse that that: WVIZ interrupted a key moment of Masterpiece on Sunday night, audio and all, with an (automated) EANS alert about (another) lake-effect snow warning! Unless you could read lips, it completely trashed the show!


----------



## hookbill

This is kind of semi directed at nickdawg but it's for everybody else too. Last night on Spike TV the new TNA Wrestling debuted on Monday night going up against WWE. And for those who know wrestling, you couldn't help but think about the old WCW because everybody, and I mean everybody from WCW was there.


They had the entire core group of the NWO including Scott Hall and Sean Waltman, Ric Flair was there, Sting, and of course Hulk Hogan himself. 3 hours worth of wrestling and none of those guys wrestled. The story line was taking on WWE. Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan are running the show, saying they whipped the WWE's butt before and they were going to do it again. Main event was Angle against A.J. Styles and it was PPV caliber. Mick Foley was there. Even the Nasty Boys were back. I mean they were pulling them out of the wood work, one surprise after another. Jeff Hardy has joined TNA also.


And I got to watch that all in analog. Lucky me.


It's time for TWC to bring Spike TV on board as a HD channel. Why it's taking this long is beyond me.


This renews my interest again in wrestling and I'd love to see TNA whip WWE in the ratings. I peaked in wrestling interest during the 90's when WCW was #1. Hope TNA can do the same thing, I hate Vince McMahann and WWE.


Hoping the next round of HD channels adds Spike to their list. After that I could care, everything I watch is now available in HD.


----------



## AdamPS

Sounds like you missed the return of Bret Hart on Raw (in HD!!) which was awesome.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17852321
> 
> 
> This renews my interest again in wrestling and *I'd love to see TNA whip WWE in the ratings.* I peaked in wrestling interest during the 90's when WCW was #1. Hope TNA can do the same thing, I hate Vince McMahann and WWE.
> 
> 
> Hoping the next round of HD channels adds Spike to their list. After that I could care, everything I watch is now available in HD.



Considering USAHD is widely available on cable and satellite providers and SPIKETV is not, looks like WWE is gonna keep winning for awhile.


And ass Comedy Central too. The Daily Show went HD and I still have to watch it in analog.


----------



## abcmatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17851889
> 
> 
> FOX had college football tonight. Wait, FOX had a graphic over the football game? Was it shown in SD? Unless something changed very recently, the way the splicer system is set up with FOX the affiliates can't do anything with the HD feed. They have to downconvert to SD and then insert the graphics. The weather and DTV crawls work that way, the school closings should be the same.



The game was definately cut to 4:3 when they put the weather graphic up.


----------



## JJkizak

And ABC local news when adding the school closing crawl to the bottom of the picture squashes the people into short and fat. Golly what great tecknology.

JJK


----------



## scnrfrq

Good article on the introduction of 3D TV's:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/arrogant010610.htm


----------



## lewis1982

looks like no new hd for a bit as time warner updated there programming notices with nothing lol


----------



## Michael P 2341




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17825951
> 
> 
> Food Network and HGTV went dark at midnight on Cablevision.
> 
> 
> That's odd cuz it was listed on TWC's website too. Wonder whats gonna be turned off tomorrow.



IIRC Food Network & HGTV are Scripps owned networks, not FOX.


----------



## nickdawg

I can't believe FOX would put the school closings/weather crap over a football game. I don't understand this trend of showing closings the night before. When I was in school(90s/early 2000s) we never had night before info. It was always a surprise to wake up and see that school is closed.


At least WEWS squashes the picture, you can still see it. WOIO and WJW just cover the bottom of the screen. Too bad just about everything I watch is on CBS or FOX and I watch zero shows on the ABC network.


So much for Mr. Jassshole's claim that we would have "close to 100" channels by the end of the year. If only I could apply "TWC Math" to other areas of life. _It's OK, I have *close to* $100._ When in reality it is nowhere near that!


----------



## subavision212

I have a question for the experts since I definitely am not when it comes to technology. I have one TW box with digital and HD tiers connected to my main tv in the basement. Can I just disconnect that box and attach it to another HD ready tv and be able to get all the HD channels? Not in too much of a hurry to push my bill over the 100.00 mark by just adding another box but if I have to I will I guess. Just wondering if it's an option. thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/17866673
> 
> 
> I have a question for the experts since I definitely am not when it comes to technology. I have one TW box with digital and HD tiers connected to my main tv in the basement. Can I just disconnect that box and attach it to another HD ready tv and be able to get all the HD channels? Not in too much of a hurry to push my bill over the 100.00 mark by just adding another box but if I have to I will I guess. Just wondering if it's an option. thanks.



You can do it. But you would have to wait on the box to boot each time you did it. About 5 minutes each time.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17866725
> 
> 
> You can do it. But you would have to wait on the box to boot each time you did it. About 5 minutes each time.



thanks for the info. I'll give it a try.


----------



## JJkizak

Never thought that Nickdawg would shrink to watching "Shrinkovision".

JJK


----------



## Goldenager62

Has anybody heard when Time Warner will finish the SDV transition in the Elyria area, so we can start getting the HD channels the rest of northeast Ohio are receiving?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17872169
> 
> 
> Has anybody heard when Time Warner will finish the SDV transition in the Elyria area, so we can start getting the HD channels the rest of northeast Ohio are receiving?



I was just wondering earlier today what was going on with you guys. You just gave me my answer.


I have been looking at things like Ohio Media Watch and not a word on what's going on over there. I feel sorry for you guys, in a way. SDV is not the greatest thing in the world, specially for TiVo owners here in N.E. Ohio.


Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.










Actually I have a feeling one of our members knows exactly what's going on in your area. And when he's quiet that means usually nothing is going on.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/17823145
> 
> 
> I called TWC in advance of receiving the box to schedule a cablecard/TA install. Had a nice chat with the CSR for some time. She was able to quote me the cablecard price and knew about the tuning adapter without me mentioning it. She couldn't figure out how to get the order to post in her system even after asking around and she's been there 3 years. I had to be kicked to a "resolution specialist" who is supposed to call me back to get the order in. I wish I could expect that this will be the most difficult part of getting the Tivo enabled.



Got the Tivo HD last night. Hooked up and forced it through the software update. The cablecard "installers" arrived a little over 2 hours after their 8-10am slot (of course). They briefly looked at the instructions, installed an M-card, and took about 15 minutes on the phone getting it paired. It appears that all channels work except the SDV ones, of course.


They had no idea what a tuning adapter was that was noted on the order form. A CSR let me know I would have to submit the "pre-order" form online and wait two weeks for my SDV channels. She claimed I couldn't do it earlier anyway since they have to see a paired cablecard for a Tivo noted before they will ship one out to my house.


----------



## nickdawg












Hey TWC!! Get off your lazy asses and add the Viacom HD channels. I want my MTV HD dammit!! Nah, I really want Comedy Central HD.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17873049
> 
> 
> I was just wondering earlier today what was going on with you guys. You just gave me my answer.
> 
> 
> I have been looking at things like Ohio Media Watch and not a word on what's going on over there. I feel sorry for you guys, in a way. SDV is not the greatest thing in the world, specially for TiVo owners here in N.E. Ohio.
> 
> 
> Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I have a feeling one of our members knows exactly what's going on in your area. And when he's quiet that means usually nothing is going on.



Going into the diagnostics I see we do have SDV activated and there is a handful of SDV channels hidden in the 1600's and the 1800's, but it has been that way since October. They must have major problems in our area (the reason Fry is no longer around) or they just don't care. I have tried emailing and calling TWC but can't get an answer. The worst part is that if you go to the TWC website to the channel lineup for the Elyria area all the HD channels that you get are listed, but we don't receive them, they must like rubbing our faces in it.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17873850
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey TWC!! Get off your lazy asses and add the Viacom HD channels. I want my MTV HD dammit!! Nah, I really want Comedy Central HD.



thank god ComedyCentral.com does 16x9 videos for now


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17874451
> 
> 
> Going into the diagnostics I see we do have SDV activated and there is a handful of SDV channels hidden in the 1600's and the 1800's, but it has been that way since October. They must have major problems in our area (the reason Fry is no longer around) or they just don't care. I have tried emailing and calling TWC but can't get an answer. The worst part is that if you go to the TWC website to the channel lineup for the Elyria area all the HD channels that you get are listed, but we don't receive them, they must like rubbing our faces in it.



Same thing going on here in North Ridgeville. No SDV and

25+ HD channels missing. The worst part is that we are still paying full price for all the missing stuff. As far as I know, the NR/Elyria area is the only one in the NEO area without these upgrades. Anyone in the know as to when this is going to happen? I think that almost a year is long enough to wait. (sorry, rant over)


Ben Music


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17882085
> 
> 
> Same thing going on here in North Ridgeville. No SDV and
> 
> 25+ HD channels missing. The worst part is that we are still paying full price for all the missing stuff. As far as I know, the NR/Elyria area is the only one in the NEO area without these upgrades. Anyone in the know as to when this is going to happen? I think that almost a year is long enough to wait. (sorry, rant over)
> 
> 
> Ben Music



You have a right to rant about. What a poor excuse for a cable company.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17884645
> 
> 
> You have a right to rant about. What a poor excuse for a cable company.



I don't know what the hold up on this issue is but don't forget that TW is dealing with an old Comcast area. I'm not sticking up for TW, I feel they have had more then enough time to resolve this, still there may be technical difficulties that we don't know about.


If Comcast would have come in would that have made a difference? Well maybe you would all have TiVo software but I doubt there wouldn't be issues. Difference would be that we would be the ones screaming foul.


Unfortunately TW says you are getting the right channels for your area. Now I'm not one who believes in class action suites but in this case maybe one would be appropriate.


Then again you do have a choice. You can fire TW and go to satellite. Don't know why you havent done so already.


Come on Cathode Kid how about throwing these good people a bone.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17884790
> 
> 
> Now I'm not one who believes in class action suites but in this case maybe one would be appropriate.



Oh come on.







I hate TWC as much as the next guy, actually more like the next 15 guys combined







, but I think a lawsuit is out of the question. TWC didn't sell a dangerous product or a defective product. They just lack HD channels.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17884790
> 
> 
> I don't know what the hold up on this issue is but don't forget that TW is dealing with an old Comcast area. I'm not sticking up for TW, I feel they have had more then enough time to resolve this, still there may be technical difficulties that we don't know about.
> 
> 
> If Comcast would have come in would that have made a difference? Well maybe you would all have TiVo software but I doubt there wouldn't be issues. Difference would be that we would be the ones screaming foul.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately TW says you are getting the right channels for your area. Now I'm not one who believes in class action suites but in this case maybe one would be appropriate.
> 
> 
> Then again you do have a choice. You can fire TW and go to satellite. Don't know why you havent done so already.
> 
> 
> Come on Cathode Kid how about throwing these good people a bone.



Hook,

If you would go to the Time Warner website and lookup the channels for the Elyria area you would see the same channels listed that are in your area, the difference is that you actually receive them and we don't. So we are not getting the "right" channels.

The Mentor area is also old Comcast, but they are getting these channels, albeit a much smaller area.

I can't get satellite because of line of sight problems, but as soon as the weather brakes I will check into an over the air antenna and quit cable.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17886139
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> If you would go to the Time Warner website and lookup the channels for the Elyria area you would see the same channels listed that are in your area, the difference is that you actually receive them and we don't. So we are not getting the "right" channels.
> 
> The Mentor area is also old Comcast, but they are getting these channels, albeit a much smaller area.
> 
> I can't get satellite because of line of sight problems, but as soon as the weather brakes I will check into an over the air antenna and quit cable.



Yes, the channel list upgrade happened just last week, and this has been the only glimmer of hope we had in the last year. Goldenager62, you hit the nail on the head when you said the Mentor area, which was part of our Elyria/NR head end, solved the old Comcast area proplems,

so that shouldn't be used as an excuse. Maybe something good will happen next week. We can all hope.


By the way, I do have Tivo, OTA, and Directv, so it's not that I don't have anything to watch or record. I just want to get what I pay for.


Ben Music


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17886686
> 
> 
> Yes, the channel list upgrade happened just last week, and this has been the only glimmer of hope we had in the last year. Goldenager62, you hit the nail on the head when you said the Mentor area, which was part of our Elyria/NR head end, solved the old Comcast area proplems,
> 
> so that shouldn't be used as an excuse. Maybe something good will happen next week. We can all hope.
> 
> 
> By the way, I do have Tivo, OTA, and Directv, so it's not that I don't have anything to watch or record. I just want to get what I pay for.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



If you are referring to the the channel lineup thats on the Time Warner website for the Elyria area, it has been that way for months, ever since Mentor got the new HD channels.

Like I said before, we do have SDV activated, there are handful in the 1800's. It been that way since the end of October. For some reason we are not getting all the HD channels.

Here is a list of SDV channels we have now:


1800 Chill

1804 TCM HD

1809 HLM HD

1810 FBN HD


If you have these channels you already have SDV activated.


----------



## scnrfrq

I have an 8300HD box using MDN. I have an Apricorn 1TB external attached. I'm getting short bursts of pixelization on our local HD channels. This is pretty annoying, as the sound is affected too. The problem does not occur when the cable is hooked directly to the TV or if I unhook the hard drive. I've tried 2 different hard drives too, with the same problem occurring. Any suggestions?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/17888703
> 
> 
> I have an 8300HD box using MDN. I have an Apricorn 1TB external attached. I'm getting short bursts of pixelization on our local HD channels. This is pretty annoying, as the sound is affected too. The problem does not occur when the cable is hooked directly to the TV or if I unhook the hard drive. I've tried 2 different hard drives too, with the same problem occurring. Any suggestions?



Well, expect the problem to get worst, not better. Long before I got my TiVo I thought all that stuff was normal. Not only did I have the same problems you're talking about, I also had many partial recordings. I have read that many people have a problem with eSATA hard drives and SA 8300.


Your best bet is to get rid of the external drive and record less. Don't want to do that? Then get a TiVo.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I'm in the old Comcast area too and was considering a switch to DirecTV. Anyone know how much the cheapest Time Warner cable TV package costs and what channels you get? I would like to keep using my TiVoHD for local programming and I want to keep my internet connection.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17887939
> 
> 
> If you are referring to the the channel lineup thats on the Time Warner website for the Elyria area, it has been that way for months, ever since Mentor got the new HD channels.
> 
> Like I said before, we do have SDV activated, there are handful in the 1800's. It been that way since the end of October. For some reason we are not getting all the HD channels.
> 
> Here is a list of SDV channels we have now:
> 
> 
> 1800 Chill
> 
> 1804 TCM HD
> 
> 1809 HLM HD
> 
> 1810 FBN HD
> 
> 
> If you have these channels you already have SDV activated.



Yes, I have those 4 channels plus Encore on 1624 and Encore Westerns on 1622. I went back and looked at the channel list again and found that you are correct that most of the new HD channels have been listed since about Oct 09. What I noticed on the latest list is that the little black triangles, which ment (coming soon) are now gone. Also, there are about 10+ more HD channels that were not on the Oct list. I take this as being a good sign of things to come.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill

Well right now I've got a flashing green light on my Tuner Adapter. This is the first time I actually saw it go out. Can't do anything about it tonight, I'm recording and I don't feel like going through some CSR. So tired of having this happen.


----------



## hookbill

Why's it so quiet over here?


Because nothing and I mean nothing is going on with TWC? Well, they had a couple of small outages today but nothing major. Nothing new is up at their web site.


For the Elyria people I sent OMW an email asking him to look into your situation for you guys. I told him that if you don't get your HD channels I'm afraid there might be a riot in the area. He's got contacts so maybe he can help you out.


I don't know if I have a contact anymore. My call wasn't returned yesterday concerning my TA. I had to get it fixed by "other" means.


----------



## shooter21198

I think the local person in erie got the boot when Fry left. I haven't got my email returned about the future of viacom HD channels in NEO


----------



## edjrwinnt

I just had TWO cable guys here in North Ridgeville doing a service call at my house, and they said they have no idea when we are getting SDV. The one cable guy says he talks to the tech in the area all the time that would know and he doesn't know. He told me when we finally do get SDV, my black SDV box (that I got last summer) for my TiVo will not work.


Anyways, the one cable guy told me they still have a lifeline basic package available for around $10 a month. I may just get that and get DirecTV and take advantage of this offer . I was waiting for a new DirecTiVo but it doesn't look like that's coming out anytime soon, if at all, after reading the TiVo forum.


----------



## edjrwinnt

One more thing, does anyone have a Sony DHG-HDD250 or DHG-HDD500 DVR working in the area? I've never been able to get one of these to work with a Scientific Atlanta cable card. They brought me a multi-stream card today because they say multi-stream cards are all they have now. I only get the local HD channels and TBS-HD with it right now. Hopefully more channels will come in soon.


----------



## hdtvfan2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/17918544
> 
> 
> One more thing, does anyone have a Sony DHG-HDD250 or DHG-HDD500 DVR working in the area? I've never been able to get one of these to work with a Scientific Atlanta cable card. They brought me a multi-stream card today because they say multi-stream cards are all they have now. I only get the local HD channels and TBS-HD with it right now. Hopefully more channels will come in soon.



The Sony DVR's aren't compatible with the tuning adapter so you can't the other HD channels. With a Tuning adapter you would get more channels. Sony has no plans to support the Tuning adapter so you're stuck.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvfan2005* /forum/post/17918584
> 
> 
> The Sony DVR's aren't compatible with the tuning adapter so you can't the other HD channels. With a Tuning adapter you would get more channels. Sony has no plans to support the Tuning adapter so you're stuck.



Thanks but that wasn't what I was asking and perhaps I should have been more clear. I just want my Sony to at least get the non-SDV channels.


Unfortunately the few channels I was getting are now gone on the Sony DVR. I'm going to call the national cable card support and see what they say. I wasn't expecting it to work anyways, and I'll probably have to drop the cable card back off at the local Time Warner office this weekend.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17917664
> 
> 
> Why's it so quiet over here?
> 
> 
> Because nothing and I mean nothing is going on with TWC? Well, they had a couple of small outages today but nothing major. Nothing new is up at their web site.
> 
> 
> For the Elyria people I sent OMW an email asking him to look into your situation for you guys. I told him that if you don't get your HD channels I'm afraid there might be a riot in the area. He's got contacts so maybe he can help you out.
> 
> 
> I don't know if I have a contact anymore. My call wasn't returned yesterday concerning my TA. I had to get it fixed by "other" means.



Thanks for trying


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17884790
> 
> 
> Come on Cathode Kid how about throwing these good people _(Elyria)_ a bone.



They might notice some activity tomorrow morning.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17926467
> 
> 
> They might notice some activity tomorrow morning.



Now that sounds pretty promising. Cathode Kid doesn't give much warning but he's about 99% accurate. I can think of only 1 time he missed. Sort of.


----------



## shooter21198

Cathode Kid predict when Viacom HD channels will appear


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17926467
> 
> 
> They might notice some activity tomorrow morning.



I won't believe until I see it in Elryia/North Ridgeville. Although Avon Lake and Bay Village supposedly got more Hi-def channels today.


The problem is folks in my area with TiVoHD's are screwed with their SDV boxes according to 2 cable guys I talked to. They won't work when we do go SDV.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17926467
> 
> 
> They might notice some activity tomorrow morning.



Nothing going on here.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17929593
> 
> 
> Nothing going on here.



Well its technically morning until 11:59AM.


I'm hoping you far west siders finally get this taken care of. We in Mentor were playing the waiting game with you for quite a few months and I thought as soon as one of us old Comcast areas received the lineup the other would follow shortly. That unfortunately has not been the case.


Ray


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17926467
> 
> 
> They might notice some activity tomorrow morning.



Still nothing


----------



## shooter21198

Well I just sent a nice email to the presidents of TWC NEO and in the message I said



> Quote:
> Other Time Warner Cable divisions across the country are getting the Viacom networks in HD added to their lineup. When will I and the rest of the Time Warner Cable North East Ohio and Western Pennsylvania subscribers be receiving these networks. In certain markets there are Samsung set-top boxes will these ever reach our area? Lastly, will there be a major navigator update sometime later this year?



I hope I get a legitimate answer not some PR garbage.


----------



## hookbill

I think that the Samsung boxes have already reached here. I believe I saw it discussed in a post. A certain well known member who's name I won't mention said it was a pos.


I think if he gives you a genuine response it will be "Hell, we can't even deliver the channels we have to certain areas. And you're complaining about a few others?"










Listen up Elyria people. I still have faith in Cathode Kid. He said something "might" happen not something "will" happen. So keep checking today, tomorrow. Some times he's a day or so off. Sometimes it's been a week and only one time can I remember him missing the target completely.


Also I read a comment about techs saying boxes not having the ability to work with SDV. They may have been referring to the old Moto boxes, and that's right they won't work. But I can't think of a reason that the SA 8300 boxes wouldn't work.


----------



## shooter21198

I've been reading samsung threads they fixed the software and the non-DVR ones work fine now.

The DVR ones are still broken


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17931482
> 
> 
> I've been reading samsung threads they fixed the firmware and they work fine now.



So what do they do that the SA 8300 doesn't do? I mean other then reliably record shows, we all know you can't count on the SA 8300 to do that.


----------



## shooter21198

Look sleeker and painted black besides that they still have Navigator which is the root of all evil


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17931593
> 
> 
> Look sleeker and painted black besides that they still have Navigator which is the root of all evil



Hmmmm....Get a can of spray paint and paint that sucker black. Rustoleom makes a great gloss black, lol.


I know everything is black these days, it's such a dust collector though.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17931510
> 
> 
> So what do they do that the SA 8300 doesn't do? I mean other then reliably record shows, we all know you can't count on the SA 8300 to do that.



The Samsung boxes are sh-t. You should be thankful they haven't contaminated our area yet. Last I read about them the Navigator software crashes and you can't access the guide or digital channels or recorded shows. Plus there's still some errors with the external hard drive(tho the internal drive is a little bigger). Also, and this is the worst of all, you know how now the SARA and Navigator IPG has black bars on the side of the screen on HDTVs? The Samsung boxes stretch the IPG, channel banner and DVR menu. And there's no way to undo that.


So a fugly black box with a fugly UI full of bugs, I wouldn't take that if TWC paid ME. I like my silver 8300.


----------



## shooter21198

it has to be better than the 4250HDC that thing makes odd noises in the middle of the night and never works right


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17932586
> 
> 
> it has to be better than the 4250HDC that thing makes odd noises in the middle of the night and never works right



Kind of apples and oranges. The 4250 is not a DVR. I had one of those and I never heard noises from it.


----------



## shooter21198

I swear mine is demonic because every one else's 4250 is fine. Maybe if I actually swapped out for a different one it wouldn't be so bad.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17932586
> 
> 
> it has to be better than the 4250HDC that thing makes odd noises in the middle of the night and never works right



I think that box needs to be replaced. There's no normal reason why a non DVR box should be making noise.










The 4250 is a rather attractive looking box. I find the Samsung to be a bit ugly. I think it doesn't even have a clock on the front panel.


----------



## Ben Music

I have two black Samsung 3090's and they both work fine. Yes, the guide is stretched, but it's clear and easy to read. I record everything to watch later and never lost anything. After hearing about all the problems everyone had with the SA's, I jumped from the Moto box right to the Samsung's.


Ben Music


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17931395
> 
> 
> Listen up Elyria people. I still have faith in Cathode Kid. He said something "might" happen not something "will" happen. So keep checking today, tomorrow. Some times he's a day or so off. Sometimes it's been a week and only one time can I remember him missing the target completely.



Thanks Hookbill. Unfortunately "activity" does not always equal "completion in one night." Patience...


CK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17940507
> 
> 
> Thanks Hookbill. Unfortunately "activity" does not always equal "completion in one night." Patience...
> 
> 
> CK



I've got nothing to be patient about. I think the people in Elyria have run out of patience. And rightfully so.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17940507
> 
> 
> Thanks Hookbill. Unfortunately "activity" does not always equal "completion in one night." Patience...
> 
> 
> CK



It has been 16 months since I received the letter that SDV activation would start in October 2008.


----------



## nickdawg

TWC can never "complete" any activity in one night.


That's why I'm banging TWC's wife!!


----------



## bassguitarman

Speaking of SDV problems. Ongoing in the former Adelphia area various what I assume are SDV channels will either not select or when selected they will lose audio and video. It seems not always to be the same channel. Could this be an overall bandwidth problem ?

Dave


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17949149
> 
> 
> Speaking of SDV problems. Ongoing in the former Adelphia area various what I assume are SDV channels will either not select or when selected they will lose audio and video. It seems not always to be the same channel. Could this be an overall bandwidth problem ?
> 
> Dave



It's hard to say since we don't know specifically which channels you're talking about.


When you say they lose audio and video is there a message? If there isn't a message it could be that you have a signal problem. I haven't experienced this myself and I live in the old Adelphia area. But you and I may not look at the same channels.


With SDV there really shouldn't be a bandwith problem. There MAY be a problem with the ancient equipment handling SDV and the type of firmware they are using (SARA).


MY #1 problem right now with TW is my Tuner Adapters getting knocked off line about 1 every 3 weeks. As far as PQ of shows goes, and this is on SDV I'm satisfied. Sort of.


----------



## Too_Many_options

bassguitarman:

I am also former Adelphia.

what you described happens to me all the time as well.

Mostly after SDV and "start over"

most noticeably on HD channels

Happens at all times in evening (only time I watch)

sometimes worse than others, meaning from mild annoyance to unwatchable.

I usually end up switching to non HD channel and the problem is not so evident there.


----------



## bassguitarman

Thanks, in addition to evenings I noticed it over the weekend during the day


----------



## Goldenager62

Hey Time Warner, we're still waiting.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17955662
> 
> 
> Hey Time Warner, we're still waiting.



You're an optimist. I gave up.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/17955668
> 
> 
> You're an optimist. I gave up.



I had some hope when Cathode Kid made his last statement, but I guess your right.


----------



## shooter21198

Cathode Kid is usually right about everything for once even the great CK was incorrect.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17957897
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid is usually right about everything for once even the great CK was incorrect.



Nah.... He *was* right, but TWC hired some goon to watch this forum - when they saw CK's prediction, they changed their schedule at the last minute so that his prediction wouldn't come true.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/17962268
> 
> 
> Nah.... He *was* right, but TWC hired some goon to watch this forum - when they saw CK's prediction, they changed their schedule at the last minute so that his prediction wouldn't come true.



Typical time warner giving false hope


----------



## Goldenager62

We did have some changes here in the Elyria area. We did had three SDV channels in the 1800's, now we have two. Not exactly what I would call progress.


----------



## TES77

just wanted to let everyone know in the elyria/north ridgeville area that we now have a ton of new hd channels (fx, versus, bravo, animal planet, just to name a few)

**** i think these are all the channels everyone else has had for months


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17968412
> 
> 
> just wanted to let everyone know in the elyria/north ridgeville area that we now have a ton of new hd channels (fx, versus, bravo, animal planet, just to name a few)
> 
> **** i think these are all the channels everyone else has had for months



Great news. CK was off a few days but it did happen. Congratulations!


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TES77* /forum/post/17968412
> 
> 
> just wanted to let everyone know in the elyria/north ridgeville area that we now have a ton of new hd channels (fx, versus, bravo, animal planet, just to name a few)
> 
> **** i think these are all the channels everyone else has had for months



Nothing here yet in the communities just west of Elyria. Time Warner must hate us.


----------



## edjrwinnt

Awesome! Now I just have to get my tuning adapter working for my TiVo. I restarted my Tuning Adapter and my TiVo and no luck. It has to be something on Time Warner's end.


----------



## bassguitarman

New Time Warner chief story on ABJ website.
http://www.ohio.com/news/82212192.html 


Sorry I'm not confident a Wall Street guy is going to fix anything but fill his own pockets with our cash.


----------



## Goldenager62

Finally, finally, finally 40 new HD channels.

Now I want more.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17970848
> 
> 
> Finally, finally, finally 40 new HD channels.
> 
> Now I want more.



Hey! Give CK credit wen due. He seas only off by 4 days..


----------



## shooter21198

Welcome to SDV


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17970848
> 
> 
> Finally, finally, finally 40 new HD channels.
> 
> Now I want more.



Robin Meade in HD...a good thing


Keith O in HD.....


----------



## shooter21198

Welcome Vin Zachariah and hope you don't mess up like Fry did


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17970848
> 
> 
> Finally, finally, finally 40 new HD channels.
> 
> Now I want more.



Still nothing new in North Ridgeville. I have noticed a few things in the past few days. All the Quam locals are gone and the preview channels in the 1600's thru 1800's are gone. Now that the Elyria node is on with the new HD, I have to believe NR won't be far behind.


I did find out one thing from a TW rep that I hadn't heard yet. All the HD chans will soon be realigned to the 1000's.

For example, HD Ch 3 (now 403) will become 1003. HD Ch 5 (now 405) will become 1005 etc. When I was in Cinci during the holidays, I noticed that TWC had already done this.


Ben Music


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17971889
> 
> 
> Still nothing new in North Ridgeville. I have noticed a few things in the past few days. All the Quam locals are gone and the preview channels in the 1600's thru 1800's are gone. Now that the Elyria node is on with the new HD, I have to believe NR won't be far behind.
> 
> 
> I did find out one thing from a TW rep that I hadn't heard yet. All the HD chans will soon be realigned to the 1000's.
> 
> For example, HD Ch 3 (now 403) will become 1003. HD Ch 5 (now 405) will become 1005 etc. When I was in Cinci during the holidays, I noticed that TWC had already done this.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



yeah cinci did that over the summer before i move back home to cleveland.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17970974
> 
> 
> Hey! Give CK credit wen due. He seas only off by 4 days..



Actually we did not get the HD channels some time last night. Woke up this morning and saw that the cable box had been rebooted. So that makes it exactly a week that CK made his statement.

But you are right, thank God somebody knows what's going on at Time Warner Cable, because when I called them to ask about it they had no idea what I was talking about.

Thank you CK for the update.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17971889
> 
> 
> Still nothing new in North Ridgeville. I have noticed a few things in the past few days. All the Quam locals are gone and the preview channels in the 1600's thru 1800's are gone. Now that the Elyria node is on with the new HD, I have to believe NR won't be far behind.
> 
> 
> I did find out one thing from a TW rep that I hadn't heard yet. All the HD chans will soon be realigned to the 1000's.
> 
> For example, HD Ch 3 (now 403) will become 1003. HD Ch 5 (now 405) will become 1005 etc. When I was in Cinci during the holidays, I noticed that TWC had already done this.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I live about 5 miles west of Elyria and we got them sometime in the middle of the night and Elyria got them yesterday. I I were to bet I would say sometime today or tomorrow morning you should have it.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17971889
> 
> 
> I did find out one thing from a TW rep that I hadn't heard yet. All the HD chans will soon be realigned to the 1000's.
> 
> For example, HD Ch 3 (now 403) will become 1003. HD Ch 5 (now 405) will become 1005 etc. When I was in Cinci during the holidays, I noticed that TWC had already done this.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Yeah Direct TV does that. SD channel is XXX HD channel is 1XXX

and I read else where that this is going to be commonplace around all TWC divisions


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17972403
> 
> 
> Yeah Direct TV does that. SD channel is XXX HD channel is 1XXX
> 
> and I read else where that this is going to be commonplace around all TWC divisions



Actually, I think you will find that there are 2 XXX choices in the edit list. One is SD and one is HD. You can set your favorites list to all HD, or all SD, or a combition of both.

The 1XXX (1000 to 1999) are all (VOD) Vidio on demand channels.


Ben Music


----------



## GregF2

Finally, here in Amherst too! Excited!!!


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17971889
> 
> 
> Still nothing new in North Ridgeville. I have noticed a few things in the past few days. All the Quam locals are gone and the preview channels in the 1600's thru 1800's are gone. Now that the Elyria node is on with the new HD, I have to believe NR won't be far behind.
> 
> 
> I did find out one thing from a TW rep that I hadn't heard yet. All the HD chans will soon be realigned to the 1000's.
> 
> For example, HD Ch 3 (now 403) will become 1003. HD Ch 5 (now 405) will become 1005 etc. When I was in Cinci during the holidays, I noticed that TWC had already done this.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I live in North Ridgeville and I got the new HD channels yesterday.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/17970974
> 
> 
> Hey! Give CK credit wen due. He seas only off by 4 days..



Thanks, Hook. Pulling the arrows out of my back now.


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Coming soon in March
> 
> 
> Customers in greater Cleveland are getting Navigator. Click here to learn more about our innovative onscreen guide.
> 
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable wants to make your life simpler and easier through the services we deliver and how we deliver them. We're proud to announce finding what you want to watch will get easier in March! It's TV Made Easy!
> 
> 
> 
> Watch your mail for updates about TV Made Easy
> 
> 
> Our HD offering has grown so robust, we're moving the HD channels to the 1000 block and grouping them by category. With your new theme-based HD lineup coming in March, finding what you want to watch in HD will be faster and easier than ever.
> 
> 
> *To find your favorite broadcaster in HD, you'll just add a "1" to the Basic Cable channel number
> 
> 
> *To find your favorite Digital Cable channel in HD, you'll just add a "1" to the Digital Channel number, or go to Channel 1001 and start surfing.
> 
> 
> More exciting changes coming in March
> 
> 
> *All your Free On Demand favorites are moving to the "Free 400s". This includes Primetime On Demand with your favorite primetime shows and Kids on Demand with kids favorites such as Nickelodeon and PBS Kids Sprout. Local on Demand, your source for free local high school football, travel and news On Demand, moves to channel 411.
> 
> *Movies on Demand moving to the 500s gives you instant access to hundreds of hit movies now on our leading-edge platform.
> 
> 
> Bookmark this site as a reference to the channel guide for your particular area, and related updates which are always posted here as they become available.



Well the HD Channels moving is official


----------



## shooter21198

Cathode Kid use your magic and tell us when we get Comedy Central, Spike, and other viacom channels in HD



I was looking at the Elyria area and Cleveland brochures and noticed that

471 MTV HD

472 CMT HD

473 VH-1 HD

474 BET HD

475 Comedy HD

479 Spike HD

458 Nick HD

effective 1/26/10

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf 


but when I look at my brochure(Erie suburbs) these channels aren't listed


EDIT 5: Well I be darned my area brochure is the only one without those channels listed I just checked the city of Erie's brochure those are listed


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17975980
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid use your magic and tell us when we get Comedy Central, Spike, and other viacom channels in HD
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking at the Elyria area and Cleveland brochures and noticed that
> 
> 471 MTV HD
> 
> 472 CMT HD
> 
> 473 VH-1 HD
> 
> 474 BET HD
> 
> 475 Comedy HD
> 
> 479 Spike HD
> 
> 458 Nick HD
> 
> effective 1/26/10
> 
> http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf
> 
> 
> but when I look at my brochure(Erie suburbs) these channels aren't listed
> 
> 
> EDIT 5: Well I be darned my area brochure is the only one without those channels listed I just checked the city of Erie's brochure those are listed



Do I know TWC, or do I know TWC?? Check out my predictions from December 20, 2009!!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17753958
> 
> 
> 493 Fuse HD
> 
> 494 IFC HD
> 
> 495 Encore HD
> 
> 652 Showtime 2 HD
> 
> 661 TMC HD
> 
> 
> Future channel wise I find it really interesting that Fuse HD is located on channel 493, rather than closer to 470 where Palladia is. It seems like it would make more sense to have the music channels MTV, BET, VH1 and CMT together with Fuse, like the SD lineup. Something like:
> 
> 471 MTVHD
> 
> 472 VH1 HD
> 
> 473 BET HD
> 
> 474 CMT HD
> 475 Fuse HD
> 
> 
> Then that leaves:
> 
> 458 Nickelodeon HD
> 
> 475 Comedy Central HD
> 
> 477 SPIKE HD
> 
> 479 TruTV HD


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/17970784
> 
> 
> New Time Warner chief story on ABJ website.
> http://www.ohio.com/news/82212192.html
> 
> 
> Sorry I'm not confident a Wall Street guy is going to fix anything but fill his own pockets with our cash.



I'm sure he can do a helluva lot better than a pole jockey turned president, like Fry.


















> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17971889
> 
> 
> All the HD chans will soon be realigned to the 1000's.
> 
> For example, HD Ch 3 (now 403) will become 1003. HD Ch 5 (now 405) will become 1005 etc. When I was in Cinci during the holidays, I noticed that TWC had already done this.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Are you serious? They're gonna move the channels again? I don't like this four digit channel crap. F-ck that.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17971889
> 
> 
> Still nothing new in North Ridgeville. I have noticed a few things in the past few days. All the Quam locals are gone and the preview channels in the 1600's thru 1800's are gone. Now that the Elyria node is on with the new HD, I have to believe NR won't be far behind.
> 
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Ben all the Q locals are now in their "real" channel positions 3,3.1, 3.2, 5,5.1. also I see that 43.2 ( this TV) is also now available hadn't seen it at least in the NR/Ely/AMH zone before now


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17975980
> 
> 
> 475 Comedy HD
> 
> 479 Spike HD
> 
> 458 Nick HD
> 
> effective *1/26/10*



It would be a day late(If their added when they say) but, I'll take what ever present I can get from good ole TWC.


----------



## bassguitarman

At least a pole jockey would know how to fix something. It cracks me up when they say they are hiring more CSR's. Yup more people to answer our phone calls, but no more technicians to fix their SDV problems.


----------



## Goldenager62

Being a PBS fan and having to rescan my one tv(QAM), I found that it had WNEO HD channel but no WVIZ HD channel. My other tv with a cable box(4250) I receive WVIZ HD but no WNEO HD. Maybe CK can or anybody else enlighten me on why that is.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17979305
> 
> 
> Being a PBS fan and having to rescan my one tv(QAM), I found that it had WNEO HD channel but no WVIZ HD channel. My other tv with a cable box(4250) I receive WVIZ HD but no WNEO HD. Maybe CK can or anybody else enlighten me on why that is.



In the Kent area I have run multiple QAM scans on multiple TVs in our house and WEWS and WJW are missing!!


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/17975980
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid use your magic and tell us when we get Comedy Central, Spike, and other viacom channels in HD
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking at the Elyria area and Cleveland brochures and noticed that
> 
> 471 MTV HD
> 
> 472 CMT HD
> 
> 473 VH-1 HD
> 
> 474 BET HD
> 
> 475 Comedy HD
> 
> 479 Spike HD
> 
> 458 Nick HD
> 
> effective 1/26/10
> 
> http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0208...onLU021908.pdf
> 
> 
> but when I look at my brochure(Erie suburbs) these channels aren't listed
> 
> 
> EDIT 5: Well I be darned my area brochure is the only one without those channels listed I just checked the city of Erie's brochure those are listed



hope this is true......


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Paper: Cleveland Plain Dealer Legal Notices
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable’s agreements with programmers to carry their services routinely expire from time to time. We are usually able to obtain renewals or extensions of such agreements, but in order to comply with applicable regulations, we must inform you when an agreement is about to expire. The following agreements are due to expire soon, and we may be required to cease carriage of one or more of these services/stations in the near future.
> 
> 
> E!, Style, Halogen, Encore, Encore Action, Encore HD, Encore Love, Encore Mystery, Encore WAM, Encore Westerns, Encore Drama, Food Network, Starz, Starz Cinema, Starz Comedy, Starz Edge, Starz HD, Starz InBlack, Starz Kids & Family, Starz On Demand, TruTV, Lifetime, GAC, The Weather Channel, Fox Reality, Fox Soccer, Fox Sports Espanol, Fuel, FX, Speed, WBNX, WOIO, WUAB and WAOH.
> 
> 
> From time to time we make certain changes in the services that we offer in order to better serve our customers. The following changes are planned:
> 
> 
> On or after January 26, 2010, ONTV4U will be dropped from the expanded basic level of service and position 180 of the Digital Basic level of service but can still be viewed on position 187 of our Digital Basic level of service.
> 
> 
> On or after January 31, 2010, Dealz TV will cease operation and will not be available for viewing.
> 
> 
> On or after March 4, 2010, Time Warner Cable will be moving all HD programming to the 1,000’s from their current position in the 400’s. At this time, the channel position for the HD broadcast television stations will change as well as the HD cable programming. On or after March 4, current programming line ups will be available. Customers with HD service will receive communication via U.S. Mail or e-mail about these changes.
> 
> 
> On or after March 4, 2010, Style will move from Expanded Basic to Digital Basic.
> 
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.



Well no news of future HD Channels


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17979305
> 
> 
> Being a PBS fan and having to rescan my one tv(QAM), I found that it had WNEO HD channel but no WVIZ HD channel. My other tv with a cable box(4250) I receive WVIZ HD but no WNEO HD. Maybe CK can or anybody else enlighten me on why that is.



Try moving your 4250 box to the cable-ready QAM tv set and see if you get WVIZ-HD on that outlet. If you don't, you might have high-end rolloff at that outlet. If you do get it there, go go th e box's diagnostic screens and see if WVIZ-HD is encrypted (it's not supposed to be).


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/17982440
> 
> 
> Try moving your 4250 box to the cable-ready QAM tv set and see if you get WVIZ-HD on that outlet. If you don't, you might have high-end rolloff at that outlet. If you do get it there, go go th e box's diagnostic screens and see if WVIZ-HD is encrypted (it's not supposed to be).



What I did do was I disconnected the cable from the box and hooked it directly to the TV and did a scan, the results were the same thing I had with the other TV.

What also seems strange is that we never had WNEO HD before on QAM or with the 4250 box, and we have had WVIZ HD all along.

Also what do you mean my a high-end rolloff?


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17982560
> 
> 
> What I did do was I disconnected the cable from the box and hooked it directly to the TV and did a scan, the results were the same thing I had with the other TV.
> 
> What also seems strange is that we never had WNEO HD before on QAM or with the 4250 box, and we have had WVIZ HD all along.
> 
> Also what do you mean my a high-end rolloff?



High end rolloff means that the higher frequencies on the cable are arriving at a lower amplitude than the lower frequencies. It's part of the physics of signal transmission over copper wire - the higher frequencies will always be attenuated more than the lower ones. Cable companies compensate for this by amplifying the higher frequencies more than the lower ones as the signals travel down the trunk lines.


There are a number of things that can cause excessive high end rolloff, including water ingress into the cable, which acts as a low pass filter (series inductance with shunt capacitance), allowing the lower frequencies to get thru the wire more easily than the higher ones. A severely crimped cable or a poorly made fitting can cause similar issues.


HD channels are more sensitive to low signal levels (rolloff) than SD channels due to the denser 256-QAM modulation profile needed for HD delivery. Industry specs call for a signal range of +15 to -15dbmv for SD channels (64-QAM) but there's a tigher requirement of +15 to -12dvmv for HD (256-QAM) channels. Note the minimum signal level is higher for 256-QAM.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/17976279
> 
> 
> Are you serious? They're gonna move the channels again? I don't like this four digit channel crap. F-ck that.



The last time when they moved the HD channels from the 700's to the 400's that went pretty smoothly, at least from my point of view. My only concern was did TiVo go into the 1000's. I'm happy to say it does, so if this is handled the way it was the last time all my season passes will automatically be moved to the proper location.


Personally though if it was up to me I would rather have them just let it be, but it isn't and change is always inevitable.


----------



## Goldenager62

Which is the better DVR, the SA or the Samsung or is their another make available.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/17997634
> 
> 
> Which is the better DVR, the SA or the Samsung or is their another make available.



I have two of the black Samsung 3090 dvr's that I got from the Elyria office on Ternes ave. Have had no problems with them at all. I can't see any differance between the live or recored playback on my 60" Sony. The black remote is easy to read. Mostly light gray buttons on a black background. Hope this helps.


Ben Music


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17998089
> 
> 
> I have two of the black Samsung 3090 dvr's that I got from the Elyria office on Ternes ave. Have had no problems with them at all. I can't see any differance between the live or recored playback on my 60" Sony. The black remote is easy to read. Mostly light gray buttons on a black background. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Does anyone have one of the Samsung 3270 boxes. Comments on pluses and minuses?


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/17998089
> 
> 
> I have two of the black Samsung 3090 dvr's that I got from the Elyria office on Ternes ave. Have had no problems with them at all. I can't see any differance between the live or recored playback on my 60" Sony. The black remote is easy to read. Mostly light gray buttons on a black background. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Yes it does help, thanks for the info.


----------



## speedyd718

has anyone confirmed the viacom channels coming on hd today (or soon)? just wondering whether i should be looking for an update to come across, or need to reset my box.


----------



## nickdawg

TWC lied again.


----------



## lewis1982

Did they even announce that we were getting new channels? or is it just from the brochure?


----------



## hookbill

My TiVo's gave me a channel line up change notice last night. Usually if they are changing one channel, they are changing more of them. Since when were the Viacom channels suppose to be added? Maybe TiVo added them. I'll look.


Edit: I didn't see any new HD channels, looks like they deleted channel 140. Whatever that was.


----------



## shooter21198

It was never officially announced it was just on the brochures

also a bunch of my channels were deleted in the 250s


----------



## nickdawg

The same thing happened with MSNBC, BBC HD and G4. They had other channels listed to be added, then deleted that. Those channels were added without being announced.


Usually TWC DOESN'T list channels we already have. It's strange if they would list channels we don't have.


----------



## Tim Lones

I just bought a 26" Insignia HDTV/DVD player at Best Buy. Partly to use as a Computer monitor and also for an extra room for Cable TV.


I scanned the Cable Channels and got pretty much what one usually gets from TWC with just a cable line in the back of the set.


The odd thing I saw is, they number the digital channels mixed in with the analog..Couple of examples:


Analog channel 9 WOIO CBS 19


19-1 and 19-2 are listed after WGN 18, QVC 19 and before ABC Fam-20


another more complete example:


2-WVIZ analog

3-WKYC analog

3.1 WKYC HD

3.2 Weather

4 WBNX analog

5 WEWS analog

5.1 WEWS HD

6 WUAB analog

7 WDLI analog

8 WJW analog

8.1 WJW HD

9 WOIO

10 WVPX

11 Canton City Schools

12 WEAO

13 WRLM


This is different from always having separate analog and digital scans


----------



## mobgre

My Kitchen 32" Dynex scans the same way.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/18019247
> 
> 
> I just bought a 26" Insignia HDTV/DVD player at Best Buy. Partly to use as a Computer monitor and also for an extra room for Cable TV.
> 
> 
> I scanned the Cable Channels and got pretty much what one usually gets from TWC with just a cable line in the back of the set.
> 
> 
> The odd thing I saw is, they number the digital channels mixed in with the analog..Couple of examples:
> 
> 
> Analog channel 9 WOIO CBS 19
> 
> 
> 19-1 and 19-2 are listed after WGN 18, QVC 19 and before ABC Fam-20
> 
> 
> another more complete example:
> 
> 
> 2-WVIZ analog
> 
> 3-WKYC analog
> 
> 3.1 WKYC HD
> 
> 3.2 Weather
> 
> 4 WBNX analog
> 
> 5 WEWS analog
> 
> 5.1 WEWS HD
> 
> 6 WUAB analog
> 
> 7 WDLI analog
> 
> 8 WJW analog
> 
> 8.1 WJW HD
> 
> 9 WOIO
> 
> 10 WVPX
> 
> 11 Canton City Schools
> 
> 12 WEAO
> 
> 13 WRLM
> 
> 
> This is different from always having separate analog and digital scans



These digital locals used to be placed in Quam digital positions that were in the upper channel ranges like 118.1 etc. Now that SDV is here, those upper digital quam positions are needed for the SDV channels. So what they did was a remap of those digital locals, down to their proper order with the std def channel numbers. These of course, are all HD channels, and if you like, you can block out the std def version and replace it with the HD version. 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 43.1 49.1, 55.1, and 74.1 are all Hi Def.


Hope this helps,

Ben Music


----------



## nickdawg

Some of the new channels were added.


458 NCKHD

471 MTVHD

472 CMTHD

473 VH1HD

474 BETHD


SPIKE and COMEDY are missing still.







Channels 475 and 479 are not there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18033674
> 
> 
> Some of the new channels were added.
> 
> 
> 458 NCKHD
> 
> 471 MTVHD
> 
> 472 CMTHD
> 
> 473 VH1HD
> 
> 474 BETHD
> 
> 
> SPIKE and COMEDY are missing still.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Channels 475 and 479 are not there.



Just add Spike, that's all I ask.


TiVo people I'll check the line up and if we don't have these new channels in a day or so I'll phone it in.


----------



## scnrfrq

I just picked up a new remote from TW. It's a new model for me - Synergy V RT-U64CP. It's nice, but I'm having trouble programming it to change the channels on my TV. The channel up-down and individual channel buttons only control the channels on the DVR. On my old remote you could easily change this. Has anyone figured out how to control the TV channels with this remote?


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18033674
> 
> 
> Some of the new channels were added.
> 
> 
> 458 NCKHD
> 
> 471 MTVHD
> 
> 472 CMTHD
> 
> 473 VH1HD
> 
> 474 BETHD
> 
> 
> SPIKE and COMEDY are missing still.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Channels 475 and 479 are not there.



x2 channels are there


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, the few Viacom channels they added suck balls. Makes me glad TWC waited until the end to add this crap. MTV "HD" has The Buried Life on in f-cking windowbox!! But commercials air in HD. WHY?? That makes no sense at all. NCKHD blows too, right now its Nick at Nite HD. I wonder if anything there(like Everybody Hates Chris and George Lopez) will be shown in HD?


I cant wait until SPIKE and COMEDY are added, wonder how much windowbox those channels will have?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18033881
> 
> 
> Just add Spike, that's all I ask.
> 
> 
> TiVo people I'll check the line up and if we don't have these new channels in a day or so I'll phone it in.



Did Tito add any of the channel numbers? I'd be curious to know if anything is coming through on where the SPIKE and Comedy channel are supposed to be. Maybe TWC forgot to add them? Pressing 475 or 479 just takes me to the next channel above it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18038438
> 
> 
> Did Tito add any of the channel numbers? I'd be curious to know if anything is coming through on where the SPIKE and Comedy channel are supposed to be. Maybe TWC forgot to add them? Pressing 475 or 479 just takes me to the next channel above it.



Nope, I checked the other day to see if that happened. It did once before, we had the guide but no broadcast for the channels yet.


Speaking about TiVo, I just picked this up from the S3 thread. They now once again have a way to report lineup changes without calling them and being put on eternal hold and then being asked a bunch of dumb questions.

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/...neup_tool.html


----------



## mbclev

I've just gone through the channel lineups on http://www.twcguide.com , and I have found the following communities in the TWC Northeast Ohio service area without digital cable (all in Ohio):


Carroll County:

Leesville

Harrison Township


Harrison County:

All communities (except Cadiz, which has digital cable, but no HD channels)


Ottawa County:

Put-in-Bay

Put-in-Bay Township


Wayne County:

Congress (which only has cable channels 2-14)


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18033674
> 
> 
> Some of the new channels were added.
> 
> 
> 458 NCKHD
> 
> 471 MTVHD
> 
> 472 CMTHD
> 
> 473 VH1HD
> 
> 474 BETHD
> 
> 
> SPIKE and COMEDY are missing still.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Channels 475 and 479 are not there.



Here in our area 479 and 544 are both HD Showcase on Demand "FREE" and 475 is empty.

I still can't figure why I can get WVIZ HD and not WNEO HD with the cable box, and with QAM Get WNEO HD and not WVIZ HD.

Maybe someday they will straighten all this out, instead of this hodgepodge.


----------



## mnowlin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/18040646
> 
> 
> Harrison County:
> 
> All communities (except Cadiz, which has digital cable, but no HD channels)



Hehe... We have an office in Cadiz. I had to go down there a few weeks ago, and was somewhat entertained when I passed the billboard on the side of the road for some car dealership - the big eye-grabbing line at the bottom was "Harrison County's ONLY New Car Dealership".


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Figures that of the seven Viacom HD channels, they added all but the two I actually care about.










When this is complete, NEO looks to be in pretty good shape as far as HD is concerned. According to the list of known deals in the main thread, the only channels we are missing are:


> Quote:
> Crime & Investigation-HD
> 
> Game-HD (MLB Extra Innings & NHL Center Ice in HD)
> 
> Gospel Music Channel-HD
> 
> Hallmark Channel-HD
> 
> History International-HD
> 
> HSN-HD
> 
> Investigation Discovery-HD
> 
> Jewlery TV-HD
> 
> Lifetime Television-HD
> 
> Oxygen-HD
> 
> Pentagon Channel-HD
> 
> QVC-HD
> 
> RFD-HD
> 
> Sundance-HD
> 
> truTV-HD
> 
> TV Land-HD
> 
> WGN America-HD



I'd love to see truTV-HD, TV Land-HD, and WGN America-HD added.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18041022
> 
> 
> Here in our area 479 and 544 are both HD Showcase on Demand "FREE" and 475 is empty.
> 
> I still can't figure why I can get WVIZ HD and not WNEO HD with the cable box, and with QAM Get WNEO HD and not WVIZ HD.
> 
> Maybe someday they will straighten all this out, instead of this hodgepodge.



Golden WNEO-HD on the box is at 368-369 ( only 2) on QAM 49.1-49.4

WVIZ-HD on the box 363-365 QAM 74.1,74.2,74.4,74.5

at least that's what Ive got in Amherst


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/18046603
> 
> 
> Golden WNEO-HD on the box is at 368-369 ( only 2) on QAM 49.1-49.4
> 
> WVIZ-HD on the box 363-365 QAM 74.1,74.2,74.4,74.5
> 
> at least that's what Ive got in Amherst



Thanks, I did find the QAM 74.1, 74.2 etc. I still wonder why WNEO HD is not on the cable box, while one can pick it up on QAM, 49.1.

My TV has TV Guide built in and it shows the QAM channels 74.1, 74.2 etc. should be 25.1, 25.2 etc just like one would receive OTA.

Maybe when they change channels numbers on March 4th they will get this straightened out.


One other oddity I found was ESPN2 HD is no longer 720p, it is 1080i now. All the rest of the ESPN channels are 720p. I can't believe that ESPN change it, it must have been Time Warner cable that did it.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18047240
> 
> 
> One other oddity I found was ESPN2 HD is no longer 720p, it is 1080i now. All the rest of the ESPN channels are 720p. I can't believe that ESPN change it, it must have been Time Warner cable that did it.



Definitely an oddity, and I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it myself. But ESPN2 is now broadcasting in 1080i in North Canton too. So did TWC change it on purpose or accidentally?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/18050155
> 
> 
> Definitely an oddity, and I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it myself. But ESPN2 is now broadcasting in 1080i in North Canton too. So did TWC change it on purpose or accidentally?



How does a cable company accidentally change the type of broadcast feed? Why would they? Could it be possible that ESPN has changed from 720p to 1080i? Why would they?


Truly bazaar.


----------



## lewis1982

comedy hd and spike hd are now up for me in the sharon, PA area


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/18051977
> 
> 
> comedy hd and spike hd are now up for me in the sharon, PA area



What channels are they on?


----------



## lewis1982




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18052160
> 
> 
> What channels are they on?



475- comedy

479- spike


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/18052188
> 
> 
> 475- comedy
> 
> 479- spike



Same here in the Elyria area


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis1982* /forum/post/18051977
> 
> 
> comedy hd and spike hd are now up for me in the sharon, PA area



Can anyone confirm for the Akron area?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18052255
> 
> 
> Can anyone confirm for the Akron area?



Yes, Comedy 475, Spike 479.


The Daily Show is on right now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18052389
> 
> 
> Yes, Comedy 475, Spike 479.
> 
> 
> The Daily Show is on right now.



Geeze, I just sent in a list to TiVo day before yesterday. Hope they catch these two as well, they are usually good at catching all changes.


Now if they would only move TNA from 9:00 on Thursdays. I have two other recordings going on both TiVos at that time and still can catch wrestling.


----------



## JayPSU

Here in Columbus, Ohio we got the following additions to our lineup!


1103 Nickelodeon-HD

1206 Spike-HD

1207 Comedy Central-HD

1216 BET-HD

1250 MTV-HD

1252 VHI-HD

1254 CMT-HD

1623 MoreMax_HD

1624 ActionMax_HD

1644 Showtimes Showcase-HD


----------



## subavision212

So I just have cable hooked into the back of my new Panasonic LCD and rescanned and it seems that there are a ton of channels added from 78 up to 130's (many are point something like 112.230 etc.) but of course there is no signal on any of them. Just wondering what they are doing there. Would these be active channels if I got a box and added the digital tier? Just curious and figured all you experts would know what's up. thanks.


----------



## shooter21198

first nickdawg might want update his signature
*

Spoiler HSN HD and QVC HD and Game 2 HD are our next batch of HD Channels*




second


> Quote:
> Coming soon in March for Digital Cable customers
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable wants to make your life simpler and easier through the services we deliver and how we deliver them. We're proud to announce finding what you want to watch will get easier in March! It's TV Made Easy!
> 
> 
> Digital Cable Customers in greater Cleveland are getting Navigator. Click here to learn more about our innovative on-screen guide.
> 
> 
> * All Digital set-tops in Greater Cleveland will convert to Navigator in March and you don't have to do a thing.
> 
> * Navigator will arrive on all set-top boxes at different times in March for different models. As a result, you may temporarily have Navigator on one set-top and the current guide on the others. All set-top boxes will eventually receive Navigator in March.
> 
> * Watch your mail in Late February for more information on Navigator.



and third


> Quote:
> Paper: Cleveland Plain Dealer Legal Notices
> 
> 
> Beginning March 8th, the location of the HD (High Definition) broadcast channels will move to the 1000’s in the greater Cleveland area as shown below:
> 
> 
> WKYC/NBC HD will move to 1003; WOIO/CBS HD will move to 1004; WEWS/ABC HD will move to 1005; WUAB/MNTV HD will move to 1006; WBNX/CW HD will move to 1007; WJW/FOX HD will move to 1008; WVIZ/PBS HD will move to 1002.
> 
> 
> Beginning March 8th, the location of the HD (High Definition) cable channels will also move to the 1000’s in the greater Cleveland area. The change will be to ‘add a 1’ to the current standard definition digital channel position currently located beginning in the 100’s:
> 
> 
> For example: ESPN, currently on position 301 in Standard Definition will move to 1301. For example: USA Network currently on position 201 in Standard Definition will move to 1201.
> 
> 
> Detailed channel line ups are printed in the local news section of this paper. These changes to the HD channel positions do not affect the channel positions for customers not subscribing to HD service from Time Warner Cable.
> 
> 
> Other changes occurring beginning March 8th:
> 
> 
> Style Network will move from Expanded Basic to the Digital Basic tier.
> 
> Ohio Channel will move to 990
> 
> WVIZ/World will move to 991
> 
> WVIZ/Create will move to 992
> 
> WNEO Fusion will move to 993
> 
> WNEO MHZ will move to 994
> 
> This TV will move to position 996.
> 
> 
> For more information, or to view your channel line up, please visit www.twcguide.com
> 
> 
> * Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas.


----------



## hookbill

I guess they finally decided that running two systems at the same time wasn't such a good idea. So everybody will get Navigator. Bye Bye SARA. It wasn't nice knowing you.










Want to bet it doesn't happen in March? Any takers?


HSNHD and QVCHD. My wife will be thrilled.


----------



## hookbill

Does anyone know why Bones from last Thursday is not in HD?


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18057094
> 
> 
> Does anyone know why Bones from last Thursday is not in HD?



It was in HD on Brighthouse in central Florida!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/18057581
> 
> 
> It was in HD on Brighthouse in central Florida!



Well thank you so much for that helpful reply!










Apparently Fox had no HD last Thursday. Fringe is also on the mini screen.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18057094
> 
> 
> Does anyone know why Bones from last Thursday is not in HD?



it's an evil plot to keep you on your toes










what I really want to know is when the heck are they going to put the color bars in HD


----------



## hdtvfan2005

Looks like the SARA areas are getting Navigator.


----------



## nickdawg

Signature updated. They can take QVC and HSN and shove 'em. I ran out of room or else I would've said the same thing about Navigator. They can shove that too.


SAVE SARA!! I'm starting a campaign.


----------



## hdtvfan2005

TWC won't renew the SARA license and Cisco is no longer developing it. Itaas will be developing SARA from now on and they have been involved with the Navigator project in one form or another. They have provided dev tools and networks for ODN and MDN.


----------



## Goldenager62

Woke up his morning to find 90% of my HD channels were off the air.

I can see why you guys criticized SDV.

Isn't Time Warner great.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtvfan2005* /forum/post/18058988
> 
> 
> TWC won't renew the SARA license and Cisco is no longer developing it. Itaas will be developing SARA from now on and they have been involved with the Navigator project in one form or another. They have provided dev tools and networks for ODN and MDN.



Well that sucks.














Every *good* software out there always has to change owners/developers then not be renewed by TWC. First it was Aptiv and Passport, now SARA.


Can't say I'm surprised, TWC loves to shove a piece of crap down our throats.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18058472
> 
> 
> Signature updated. They can take QVC and HSN and shove 'em.



No kidding. We're getting HD shopping channels before they give us the other _real_ HD channels? We're still missing truTV, History International, TV Land, and WGN-America!


I'm not going to complain though. Getting Viacom is a big deal.


----------



## Goldenager62

Has anybody else in the Elyria area having trouble with the HD channels(SDV).


----------



## hookbill

I got a message on my TiVo that channel 394 is now QVCHD. Went to check it out. My wife is thrilled. I don't know about HSN HD but I suppose it's there too.


----------



## shooter21198

unannounced but what ever more HD the better I guess


Game2HD was added also


pure speculation:History International HD, RFD-TV HD, WGN HD, Showtime 2 East HD, Showtime East HD, Showtime Extreme HD, Showtime Showcase HD, HBO 2 East HD, and Investigation Discover HD show up in the next 2 months


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18064155
> 
> 
> Has anybody else in the Elyria area having trouble with the HD channels(SDV).



Nothing that I've noticed, what channels in particular?


----------



## nickdawg

The new channel lineup is posted.























http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0210...Cleveland3.pdf 


I don't like it. It looks really pathetic when you see it layed out like that compared to having it all grouped together.


First off if I was running things, I'd put the HD channels on their actual numbers. Like channel 19 would be 1019, PBS would be 1025 and associated multicast channels would directly follow the HD channel. I see TWC is determined to keep the effed up "analog" cable channel numbers alive(like CBS on 4, PBS on 2, etc).


Second, what I would *REALLY* do is bump all the VOD sh-t into the 4 digit channel numbers. That would clear out the 500s for more HD channels. That makes about 200 channel positions that would be open, no way in hell will TWC have 200 HD channels anytime soon. Plus it keeps most of the channels on familiar positions where we already know them to be. I know TNT is 441, USA is 443, etc. I have no fxxing clue about how their 2008 reorganization channel numbers because I kept watching the original analog channels. It's NOT 'as easy as adding a 1" because I still watch Cartoon Network on channel 66, not whatever the over 100 channel is. This gives me a headache. Screw it, I'll just go back to watching the analog channels. Whatever


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18077408
> 
> 
> The new channel lineup is posted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0210...Cleveland3.pdf
> 
> 
> I don't like it. It looks really pathetic when you see it layed out like that compared to having it all grouped together.
> 
> 
> First off if I was running things, I'd put the HD channels on their actual numbers. Like channel 19 would be 1019, PBS would be 1025 and associated multicast channels would directly follow the HD channel. I see TWC is determined to keep the effed up "analog" cable channel numbers alive(like CBS on 4, PBS on 2, etc).
> 
> 
> Second, what I would *REALLY* do is bump all the VOD sh-t into the 4 digit channel numbers. That would clear out the 500s for more HD channels. That makes about 200 channel positions that would be open, no way in hell will TWC have 200 HD channels anytime soon. Plus it keeps most of the channels on familiar positions where we already know them to be. I know TNT is 441, USA is 443, etc. I have no fxxing clue about how their 2008 reorganization channel numbers because I kept watching the original analog channels. It's NOT 'as easy as adding a 1" because I still watch Cartoon Network on channel 66, not whatever the over 100 channel is. This gives me a headache. Screw it, I'll just go back to watching the analog channels. Whatever



Meh, it's not big deal to me. Change is inevitable. I just hope it goes as smooth as when they moved it from the 700's to the 400's.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/18075573
> 
> 
> Nothing that I've noticed, what channels in particular?



Starting Wednesday morning going into Thursday night all the SDV channels were only working about 10% of the time.

I called Time Warner and they were going to send out a tech on Thursday afternoon. The tech call me early that afternoon and said they had a lot of complaints and the problem was occurring in half of Elyria and all of Amherst. About 9:20 yesterday evening they had the problem fixed.


----------



## nickdawg

I've been deconstructing this TWC broshure, wow is it vomit inducing. Get a load of this "load" that is a description of Navigator:

_New Navigator, New Possibilities.


Get ready for Navigator, our leading edge on screen guide coming in March. This new guide features the most comprehensive redesign in digital cable history, bringing you the kind of ease and options you've always wanted. Best of all, Navigator is free. And there's much more to come._


Leading edge? Hate to break it to you TWC, but the guide you're replacing is fare more leading edge than this "navigator". Navigator is Mystro, which was supposed to be TWC's answer to Tivo in 2003. Totally leading edge!!


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18079782
> 
> 
> I've been deconstructing this TWC broshure, wow is it vomit inducing. Get a load of this "load" that is a description of Navigator:
> 
> _New Navigator, New Possibilities.
> 
> 
> Get ready for Navigator, our leading edge on screen guide coming in March. This new guide features the most comprehensive redesign in digital cable history, bringing you the kind of ease and options you've always wanted. Best of all, Navigator is free. And there's much more to come._
> 
> 
> Leading edge? Hate to break it to you TWC, but the guide you're replacing is fare more leading edge than this "navigator". Navigator is Mystro, which was supposed to be TWC's answer to Tivo in 2003. Totally leading edge!!



Leading Edge!!! LOL!!!


Sure, if you like Windows 95 or DOS as an OS! LOL!


Hey Nick,


Did you get that same brochure where they make a big deal about:

_"The New Navigator moves in four directions! No other program guide works like this!"_ I almost fell out of my chair when I read that!!! Oh yea, and when we got the brochure saying Navigator was "coming soon" it was already on our box for three days!!!"


But at least TWC is making progress. Three days late with a mailing. I don't recall them ever being that late this early before!!! hahahaha!!


You'll love the revolutionary "four directional feature!" LOL!


Jack


----------



## shooter21198

1 Week guide

Half-a$$ed show search feature

plus many more features


welcome to the past


----------



## rlb

I always monitor this thread; but there's normally little action for D* and OTA has stabilized for several years.


I've said before that I've been pleasantly surprised with D*'s aggressive software updates for their HD DVRs. For the first couple years, they had pretty much monthly updates. Now, they seem to have settled on quarterly updates. I was surprised when the latest provided a significant upgrade of the "search" and "program information" functions; and most importantly the capability to network the DVRs. Now I can watch a pre-recorded program while recording two in the family room and two in the den. The "playlists" have the option to integrate everything off both machines. So, if I want to watch something in the family room, off the den DVR, it's pretty much seamless. Everything runs off my wireless "N" network and even OTA HD (MPEG2) runs over the network with no problems (although D* will soon offer an option to run the network off the coaxial cables). Plus, I've got a 1T e-sata external drive on DVR in the family room. Hard to believe the difference between now and 5-6 years ago when I bought my HD Tivo 10-250.


Finally, D* has a new satellite in orbit and it's ready to come online in a couple months. It gives them the capability for another 50 national HD channels which brings the total to somewhere between 200 and 250. Their MPEG4 HD channels are almost impossible to distinguish from the MPEG2 OTA which I normally use for locals on the den DVR.


I use TWC for my high speed internet; but am very happy that I don't have to use them for the TV cable channels.


Anyone with a line of sight to the southwest should consider D*.


Another thought for anyone with the capability. I've been streaming Netflix HD movies across my wireless "N" network into my PS3 and then into the main display in the family room. They have several thousand movies (around a thousand in HD (720p)) and they are "free" with your Netflix membership. They are not the "just out" movies; but the video quality is great and I can be watching a movie within a minute after selection. Sound is limited to DD, like TV.


----------



## hookbill

We have start over and On Demand.










Well, I don't but I have a TiVo so I can get all that stuff you get.


No doubt D* blows the doors of TWC.


----------



## edjrwinnt

A DirecTV rep tried to sell me a package yesterday at Sam's Club where the equipment was basically free, and the regular programming was $35 a month for the first year, and $81 a month for the 2nd year. Plus they'd give me a couple of movie channels like Showtime for free for 3 months. I couldn't pull the trigger as much as I wanted to dump Time Warner.


I'm paying $96 a month now for Time Warner with the fastest internet connection and I get 3 premium movie channels. I would like the extra HD channels, but I really don't watch anything else that I don't get in HD now on Time Warner.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18090692
> 
> 
> A DirecTV rep tried to sell me a package yesterday at Sam's Club where the equipment was basically free, and the regular programming was $35 a month for the first year, and $81 a month for the 2nd year. Plus they'd give me a couple of movie channels like Showtime for free for 3 months. I couldn't pull the trigger as much as I wanted to dump Time Warner.
> 
> 
> I'm paying $96 a month now for Time Warner with the fastest Internet connection and I get 3 premium movie channels. I would like the extra HD channels, but I really don't watch anything else that I don't get in HD now on Time Warner.



That's an area where TWC is very good. Giving discounted deals and than throwing bones to customers to keep them happy where they can often pay the same, a little less, or only slightly more when the deal expires if you call and get a new price lock. That is where I give TWC kudos. I also love Digital Phone, Caller ID on TV and Road Runner.


From what I have heard, the competition such as Dish, Direct TV, and U-Verse are stubborn as mules if you try to negotiate a new deal when your discount contract ends. Plus after the warranty expires, you have to pay every time for service calls. TWC doesn't do that. Just say you want an In-House Technician when you set up a truck role, so that they don't send an independent contractor dolt.


Where TWC sucks is the lack of communication with their CSR's over basic cable terminology. The level one operators answering the phone, while in my division have usually been nice and helpful, they don't know basic cable skills. Each employee should have to take a required proficiency test every six months to a year that covers say 20 questions on the following:


1.) Cable TV General Info/Boxes/DVR's/Navigator (or whatever guide is used)


2.) Road Runner hookups and wireless networking.


3.) Digital Phone.


Far too many of these reps are giving unqualified advice and to quote a line from a writer, "Most cable CSR's wouldn't know how to spell the word "help" if you gave them the first three letters."


TWC has to establish a sense of competency and knowledge in the basic areas and allow customers EASY COMMUNICATIONS to higher ups in the company when problems arise. They have to work on improving this, "We are a monopoly, and don't give a **** attitude." Some divisions are better than others. But quality basic standards of communication are just not there.


And since it is obvious that they can't do it alone, get some quality outside help to enhance the Navigator Program Guide and get it up to an expected standard level. Things like Keyword Search, Manual Recording, and Remote DVR Management should be here and now, not future update things.


Make customers want to come to cable because of the quality of cable TV part of the service. You have great Digital Phone, you have great Road Runner Internet. TWC needs to get back to its roots. A foundation of quality for the cable TV part of the equation that has been weak for many years.


Jack


----------



## edjrwinnt

Satch Man, fortunately for me I have the lead tech in the area help me out with my issues. I cannot handle Time Warner phone support anymore. I've had over 35 truck rolls in the last two years and I got to know the lead tech in the area.


I recently found out why the Time Warner cable guys could never bring the right equipment that I needed. Apparently they can only see the first line or two of comments from the CSR's. I guess the third line is where the CSR's put that I specified that I needed a dual stream cable card and not a single stream card (this was a couple of years ago). Finally after about 3 truck rolls the guy brought the right cable card. The same thing happened recently when I needed a single stream cable card, and they brought me a dual stream card.


I don't understand why people pay all that money for VOIP service from Time Warner. I use magic jack at my house for $25 a year and it suits my needs. I even use it at work now for my main phone line.


----------



## nickdawg

I love how I recorded six episodes of "Arrested Development" on IFC HD today and the 12:30, 1:30 and 2:30 episodes did not record because of an unavailable channel but the 12, 1 and 2 episodes did. Thats's OK, I don't mind the plot chunks missing.










Bad enough when TWC took away HD Arrested Development on HD Net. They manage to f-ck it up again.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18089976
> 
> 
> We have start over and On Demand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't but I have a TiVo so I can get all that stuff you get.
> 
> 
> No doubt D* blows the doors of TWC.



I love how you mock On Demand. Not too long ago I had a friend(who has D*) that was jealous of me because I have On Demand programming.










Of course I _could_ be jealous that D* has HD Net(with Arrested Development) and a DVR that works!!


----------



## mbclev

I noticed during the Super Bowl trophy presentation when I was watching on my parents' HDTV that the screen went to 4:3 SD when a promo for the upcoming series "Undercover Boss" was posted, then it went back to 16:9 HD shortly thereafter. Is this a CBS issue?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/18091466
> 
> 
> I noticed during the Super Bowl trophy presentation when I was watching on my parents' HDTV that the screen went to 4:3 SD when a promo for the upcoming series "Undercover Boss" was posted, then it went back to 16:9 HD shortly thereafter. Is this a CBS issue?



Yes, it happened on OTA as well.


----------



## Goldenager62

SDV strikes again, 3HD channels are out. Will it never end?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18094203
> 
> 
> SDV strikes again, 3HD channels are out. Will it never end?



Goldenager62, when you post could you please post which channels are out? That way we can confirm if they are out in our area or just in your area.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18094346
> 
> 
> Goldenager62, when you post could you please post which channels are out? That way we can confirm if they are out in our area or just in your area.




Sorry,

Spike HD, MTV HD, and CMT HD.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18094403
> 
> 
> Sorry,
> 
> Spike HD, MTV HD, and CMT HD.



Spike HD?? Didn't know we Had Spike. I'll go look.


----------



## hookbill

When I first tuned MTVHD it was out. I went to Spike next and I had an odd blue screen (on TiVo it's grey). Then Spike came on. I checked CMTV and it was on too.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18094445
> 
> 
> When I first tuned MTVHD it was out. I went to Spike next and I had an odd blue screen (on TiVo it's grey). Then Spike came on. I checked CMTV and it was on too.



I got them all back now. First Spike HD came back, then CMT HD and finally MTV HD at 2 PM.


----------



## shooter21198

March 8th

Adult on Demand will move to 713

Erotic on Demand will move to 715

Spice on Demand will move to 716

Playboy Subscription will move to 719

Playboy on Demand will move to 720

Adult on Demand HD will appear on 714


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/18096927
> 
> 
> March 8th
> 
> Adult on Demand will move to 713
> 
> Erotic on Demand will move to 715
> 
> Spice on Demand will move to 716
> 
> Playboy Subscription will move to 719
> 
> Playboy on Demand will move to 720
> 
> Adult on Demand HD will appear on 714



What is this, the sexy 700's?


----------



## nickdawg

Is there any reason why WEWS stopped squashing the picture when the school closing banner is on? This episode of Opra looks really stupid with the bottom of the screen covered. And the L3 cut off.










I always give credit where it is deserved. I


----------



## hookbill

Haven't you figured it out nickdawg? If there is a way someone can aggravate you, they put it in motion. TWC, television stations, me.....


----------



## xcrunner529

Anyone know if any TW in NEO have the newer Cisco or Samsung DVR boxes? I want to get rid of the crappy, slow, 4:3 interface 8300HDC. I'm in Warren, OH if that matters


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18103719
> 
> 
> Anyone know if any TW in NEO have the newer Cisco or Samsung DVR boxes? I want to get rid of the crappy, slow, 4:3 interface 8300HDC. I'm in Warren, OH if that matters



They (supposedly) have Samsung boxes, but you're not getting anything better. The Samsung boxes use the *exact* same Navigator software as the 8300HDC boxes. And instead of the normal 4:3 guide, you get all the UI screens in warped stretchovision.


There was a discussion in a HDTV Recorders subforum, the Samsung boxes have their own issues, as do the SA boxes. Personally I feel the SA boxes have evolved enough in recent times to not want to look at anything different.


There's topics about the new Navigator software and the Samsung box specifically in this forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...aysprune=&f=42


----------



## xcrunner529

I don't care that the guide is "stretched". I saw the samsung box in Columbus at a family member's and it doesn't look too bad. I'd rather have it fill the screen. I can't stand 4:3 content now.


Plus the 8300 is ugly so the samsung automatically wins imo. And yes, I am well aware of how pathetic and crappy Navigator is. Stupid house doesn't have a good line of sight for DirecTV


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18103964
> 
> 
> I don't care that the guide is "stretched". I saw the samsung box in Columbus at a family member's and it doesn't look too bad. I'd rather have it fill the screen. I can't stand 4:3 content now.
> 
> 
> Plus the 8300 is ugly so the samsung automatically wins imo. And yes, I am well aware of how pathetic and crappy Navigator is. *Stupid house doesn't have a good line of sight for DirecTV*



Welcome to my world.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18103964
> 
> 
> I don't care that the guide is "stretched". I saw the samsung box in Columbus at a family member's and it doesn't look too bad. *I'd rather have it fill the screen. I can't stand 4:3 content* now.
> 
> 
> Plus the 8300 is ugly so the samsung automatically wins imo. And yes, I am well aware of how pathetic and crappy Navigator is. Stupid house doesn't have a good line of sight for DirecTV


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18103977
> 
> 
> Welcome to my world.


----------



## xcrunner529

nickdawg - I'm not talking about stretching 4:3 content, I merely state I don't like to watch it. Now, the guide, from what I saw is not extremely degraded so I am fine with stretching something static like that if it makes it fill the screen.


----------



## hookbill

TWC was probably up to something today. Both of my tuner adapters were bricked and I had to make 2 calls as I didn't notice the 2nd one until the first one was fixed and I was off the phone.


I really think going to Navigator software is going to cause havoc with the tuner adaptors. I know they can work with them it's just switching over will probably brick them again. No big deal I guess since they have problems every two weeks anyway.


Am I the only TiVo owner in the area who has issues with the Tuner Adapter or does everybody else just take it in stride?


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18118536
> 
> 
> TWC was probably up to something today. Both of my tuner adapters were bricked and I had to make 2 calls as I didn't notice the 2nd one until the first one was fixed and I was off the phone.
> 
> 
> I really think going to Navigator software is going to cause havoc with the tuner adaptors. I know they can work with them it's just switching over will probably brick them again. No big deal I guess since they have problems every two weeks anyway.
> 
> 
> Am I the only TiVo owner in the area who has issues with the Tuner Adapter or does everybody else just take it in stride?



TiVo here. Every few weeks or so, my Tuning Adapter will do the 8 blinking light thing and I lose the SDV channels. Usually takes multiple powercycles (and plugging/unplugging USB) to get the TA to stop blinking and for the TiVo to recognize it. I use to call when it happened, but nobody at TW seems to know what to do when they hear Tuning Adapter.


Other than that, no real issues with my TA.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/18118751
> 
> 
> TiVo here. Every few weeks or so, my Tuning Adapter will do the 8 blinking light thing and I lose the SDV channels. Usually takes multiple powercycles (and plugging/unplugging USB) to get the TA to stop blinking and for the TiVo to recognize it. I use to call when it happened, but nobody at TW seems to know what to do when they hear Tuning Adapter.
> 
> 
> Other than that, no real issues with my TA.



I have had 0 success with the 8 flashing lights reviving the TA. If you call TW and you don't get tossed to some foreign country you might get a helpful rep. I did on the first call. She got me going in under 5 minutes and she told me it was the first one she ever did. Second call I got a foreign Rep who put me on eternal hold for a real TW CSR. I hung up and called cable card support. They fixed my second TA.


----------



## xcrunner529

The Tuning Adapter always goes out every few weeks or so on my TiVo as well. I either get lucky with a good rep or some idiot who tries to schedule a truck roll because they're sending a signal to a non-existant cable box instead of the tuner. They do this even when I specifically say I am using a TiVo with a tuning adapter. Morons.


Anyway, short of getting a "hit" from TW, the way I found to remedy it is to restart both the TiVo and the tuning adapter, but keep the tuning adapter disconnected from the TiVo until you get to the "Just a few more minutes" screen. Then, after powering on the tuning adapter (including the stupid power button on the front) plug in the USB back into the TiVo.


Hopefully that works for you. These boxes are such pieces of crap. For what it's worth, we've had navigator for a while and they work, but same issues you already deal with.


PS: wtf does TiVo take *so* freaking long to reboot? I hate that thing too.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I just got SDV channels in my area about 2 weeks ago and today I finally got a working tuning adapter for my TiVoHD. You guys are scaring me. I waited all this time for more headaches?


----------



## MediaObsessions

The TA hooked up to my TiVo Series 3 bricks every couple of weeks. Same thing with my parent's TiVo HD and my friend's TiVo HDXL. I call during normal business hours in order to get a CSR based in the US. Sometimes the rep knows what they are doing. Last time the rep had me experiment with different power cycles and his combination of hits to the box. We finally got it working and I was happy to oblige. I wish there was some terminology that I could tell them in order to trigger the correct command to make the phone call as short as possible. I would love to tell them for example, "run command 4 on the XYZ screen." Then the problem would be fixed and I could get back to a world where SDV doesn't infringe on my TV time.


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/18119462
> 
> 
> I wish there was some terminology that I could tell them in order to trigger the correct command to make the phone call as short as possible. I would love to tell them for example, "run command 4 on the XYZ screen." Then the problem would be fixed and I could get back to a world where SDV doesn't infringe on my TV time.



Just tell them it lost signal and to send a "hit" to it. If you don't see it reboot, the moron sent the cable box hit not the one specifically for the tuning adapter.


----------



## hookbill

I can't get to it right now but tomorrow I will post a direct toll free number to reach their cable card customer service. They know all about TiVo's and tuner adapters. Sometimes there is a hold because TWC staffs just 2 people for the entire nation, but at least they will have a clue as to what you're talking about.


My understanding is that the tuner adapter headache is a TWNEO exclusive. Other areas don't seem to have the issues we have.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18119656
> 
> 
> i can't get to it right now but tomorrow i will post a direct toll free number to reach their cable card customer service. They know all about tivo's and tuner adapters. Sometimes there is a hold because twc staffs just 2 people for the entire nation, but at least they will have a clue as to what you're talking about.



866-532-2598


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18119541
> 
> 
> Just tell them it lost signal and to send a "hit" to it. If you don't see it reboot, the moron sent the cable box hit not the one specifically for the tuning adapter.



This will work. But to make it easy for them write the serial number of the tuner adapter down and tell them exactly what to hit. I keep my TA serial numbers inside my TiVo manuaal just for this purpose. Even the cable card people appreciate it.


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18119695
> 
> 
> This will work. But to make it easy for them write the serial number of the tuner adapter down and tell them exactly what to hit. I keep my TA serial numbers inside my TiVo manuaal just for this purpose. Even the cable card people appreciate it.



I got an online chat rep who actually knew about it and asked for the serial number so if you're tired of calling them that can work too.


BTW, The Nat CC people get kinda annoyed when you just call and arent actually referred. If you can, call someone normal first and if needed, have them do the transfer/forward to that number.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18119759
> 
> 
> I got an online chat rep who actually knew about it and asked for the serial number so if you're tired of calling them that can work too.
> 
> 
> BTW, The Nat CC people get kinda annoyed when you just call and arent actually referred. If you can, call someone normal first and if needed, have them do the transfer/forward to that number.



I planned on mentioning that. I just tell them I was transferred to them before they even ask. They've never questioned it. You're dumped in a que, they have no idea how you got there but they do ask.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18119759
> 
> 
> BTW, The Nat CC people get kinda annoyed when you just call and arent actually referred. If you can, call someone normal first and if needed, have them do the transfer/forward to that number.



Finally this thread is going again.


My two cents, *beep* them. They're "annoyed".







For a service that costs over $100 a month, I'd call whoever it takes to make it work. And if they don't like it, why don't they FIX THEIR DAMN SERVICE!!


----------



## mnowlin

My TA seems to break every few weeks with the 8-flash bit. When I call TW and get a CSR on the line, I describe the problem - before they can fumble around for an answer, I say something like "when this happened three weeks ago, I had to talk to the CableCard group to get it fixed." If the CSR doesn't have a clue and just wants to move to the next call, they'll transfer you to the CC group. In the rare event that you get a CSR who actually knows what he's doing (like the last guy I talked to), he may take on the challenge of getting your TA working again.


Last time I called, the CSR seemed to know a thing or two and was able to get the TA working within a few minutes. He seemed a little surprised when I told him it sometimes went out within a week or two of being reset, but did say something along the lines of "monthly resets when we send out software updates to set-top boxes aren't uncommon - turning off your TA when you're not watching TV should avoid this problem." (Not really an option, but it provides some insight...)


He was going to look into why my box blows up so often - called me back a few hours later asking for some additional info, and I never heard anything after that. Funny thing is that my TA has been solid ever since - that was probably 4-5 weeks ago.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/18120271
> 
> 
> My TA seems to break every few weeks with the 8-flash bit. When I call TW and get a CSR on the line, I describe the problem - before they can fumble around for an answer, I say something like "when this happened three weeks ago, I had to talk to the CableCard group to get it fixed." If the CSR doesn't have a clue and just wants to move to the next call, they'll transfer you to the CC group. In the rare event that you get a CSR who actually knows what he's doing (like the last guy I talked to), he may take on the challenge of getting your TA working again.
> 
> 
> Last time I called, the CSR seemed to know a thing or two and was able to get the TA working within a few minutes. He seemed a little surprised when I told him it sometimes went out within a week or two of being reset, but did say something along the lines of *"monthly resets when we send out software updates to set-top boxes aren't uncommon - turning off your TA when you're not watching TV should avoid this problem." (Not really an option, but it provides some insight...)*
> 
> 
> He was going to look into why my box blows up so often - called me back a few hours later asking for some additional info, and I never heard anything after that. Funny thing is that my TA has been solid ever since - that was probably 4-5 weeks ago.




Monthly resets don't make sense. It happens every 2 weeks. And turning off your TA is just a bad idea. Well, at least he tried to be helpful even though he didn't know what he was talking about. And of course you can expect you Tuner Adapter to go out any day now.










Here is the number for Cable Card Support: 866.532.2598. As mentioned in previous post advise to them that you have been transferred from customer service. Sometimes they are a little sneaky asking, saying something like "did this just happen?" That's when you want to say yes, and customer support transferred me to you. Then can get a little hot under the collar if you tell them the truth.


I don't know what the big deal is. This number is all over the internet but they want protocol and we need them so let's keep them happy.










Thanks for the feedback guys. I know others have TiVo and I didn't see responses from them and some of you I was not aware had a TiVo. That means TiVo is still going strong despite this tuner adapter debacle.


I don't want to get into anything else on TiVo because it's off topic but there is some news about new stuff on the horizon from mod Ken H over on the either the S3 thread or the TiVo HD thread. You may want to check it out.


----------



## oachalon

anyone know when mentor (old comcast) will be getting these hd channels:


NCKHD, MTVHD, CMTHD, VH1HD, BETHD, CMDYHD and SPKHD


My friend in mentor on the lake (old adelphia) keeps calling me and telling me hes getting all of these channels. I know they are requiring us to swtch out our old motorola boxes to SA boxes, but ive had SA boxes in my house for over a year now and do get some sdv channels.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oachalon* /forum/post/18123664
> 
> 
> anyone know when mentor (old comcast) will be getting these hd channels:
> 
> 
> NCKHD, MTVHD, CMTHD, VH1HD, BETHD, CMDYHD and SPKHD
> 
> 
> My friend in mentor on the lake (old adelphia) keeps calling me and telling me hes getting all of these channels. I know they are requiring us to swtch out our old motorola boxes to SA boxes, but ive had SA boxes in my house for over a year now and do get some sdv channels.




Good question. I'm waiting too.


Ray


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/18119462
> 
> 
> I wish there was some terminology that I could tell them in order to trigger the correct command to make the phone call as short as possible. I would love to tell them for example, "run command 4 on the XYZ screen." Then the problem would be fixed and I could get back to a world where SDV doesn't infringe on my TV time.



PM sent.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18125453
> 
> 
> PM sent.



So in order to get good customer service for our TiVos there is something we can instruct them to do but you'll only share that information with one person. Thanks, CK. Made the rest of us feel really good.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18125575
> 
> 
> So in order to get good customer service for our TiVos there is something we can instruct them to do but you'll only share that information with one person. Thanks, CK. Made the rest of us feel really good.


*BM* sent.










To TWC.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18125575
> 
> 
> So in order to get good customer service for our TiVos there is something we can instruct them to do but you'll only share that information with one person. Thanks, CK. Made the rest of us feel really good.



There are some things that I prefer not to broadcast. That's not intended to slight anyone.


----------



## ClevIndn

Slightly off topic, but it does have to deal with Time Warner in NEO. Please delete if necessary.


For the past month or so, I have been unable to access indians.com or mlb.com through my Road Runner.. Firefox/IE will think for awhile before failing to "The connection has timed out".


Strangely, I can access indians.com using http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=cle 


I don't think it is my computer as my backup computer has the same issue


Anyone else in the area having this issue? Thanks.


----------



## hookbill

I'm taking my modem back and getting another one. It's been needing a reset twice a day. It's the only thing that TW hasn't replaced.


----------



## nickdawg

wow, this [;ace has been dead lately


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/18141835
> 
> 
> Slightly off topic, but it does have to deal with Time Warner in NEO. Please delete if necessary.
> 
> 
> For the past month or so, I have been unable to access indians.com or mlb.com through my Road Runner.. Firefox/IE will think for awhile before failing to "The connection has timed out".
> 
> 
> Strangely, I can access indians.com using http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=cle
> 
> 
> I don't think it is my computer as my backup computer has the same issue
> 
> 
> Anyone else in the area having this issue? Thanks.



No problem with those sites in Erie, PA. I'm using Seamonkey.


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18142039
> 
> 
> No problem with those sites in Erie, PA. I'm using Seamonkey.



Interesting.. thanks for checking!


----------



## awyeah

I will "broadcast" what I was told to have TWC customer service do when the TA does the "8 blink" thing. An upper-level support person told me this, I can't remember her name or if she worked for the CableCARD helpdesk or not.


I have them look in the list of my equipment for my CableCARD, and confirm that they see it. Then I ask them to send an "addressable hit" to the CableCARD and confirm when they've done it. In the CableCARD diagnostic screen (I think it's the CA screen), you will soon see the number of "EMMs" increase.


Then, I have them look in the list of my equipment for my tuning adapter (I get the idea that it actually says "tuning adapter" on their screen), and confirm that they see it. I then have them send an "addressable hit" to the TA. Sometimes it takes several minutes, but the number of EMMs increases, and I believe that's in the PowerKEY diagnostic screen.


Sometimes after they've done that, I have to power cycle the TA and have them send the addressable hit to the TA again.


This procedure has worked a couple of times, even with the first level people. Saves me lots of time on the phone with them.


----------



## awyeah

Does anyone have any info on the actual Navigator rollout schedule? I'm mostly concerned with how my tuning adapter will be affected, because I'm sure it will turn out to be a disaster - I'm assuming that the TAs will get software updates as well, since they also appear to run SARA at this time?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18143940
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any info on the actual Navigator rollout schedule? I'm mostly concerned with how my tuning adapter will be affected, because I'm sure it will turn out to be a disaster - I'm assuming that the TAs will get software updates as well, since they also appear to run SARA at this time?



Unless I'm missing something, I don't think that change will have an effect on tuning adapters, unless TWC sending a reboot signal interferes with it(as someone said earlier). Since the TA isn't an actual settop with an IPG, it should just be running a generic "diagnostic screen". I think hook posted a picture a long time ago.


----------



## Dweezilz

I saw that Fox Soccer Channel HD channel went live this month. Games this weekend on FSC said available in HD. Anyone know if TWC has an agreement with them to add it? For us soccer fans it would be awesome to see Euro soccer in HD.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18144345
> 
> 
> Unless I'm missing something, I don't think that change will have an effect on tuning adapters, unless TWC sending a reboot signal interferes with it(as someone said earlier). Since the TA isn't an actual settop with an IPG, it should just be running a generic "diagnostic screen". I think hook posted a picture a long time ago.



I'm not sure - I believe I have seen the term "SARA" in one of the version screens.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18144934
> 
> 
> I'm not sure - I believe I have seen the term "SARA" in one of the version screens.



Yes, when you go into to Diagnostic screens of the tuner adapter they are exactly like the ones you see on the SA 8300. And it does say SARA on there.


You never know with something like this, sometimes it works smoothly other times not so smoothly. All I know is that most people in other areas don't have to call about a tuner adapter problem every two weeks. One guy said about once every 3 months. That seems more reasonable.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/18120271
> 
> 
> My TA seems to break every few weeks with the 8-flash bit. When I call TW and get a CSR on the line, I describe the problem - before they can fumble around for an answer, I say something like "when this happened three weeks ago, I had to talk to the CableCard group to get it fixed." If the CSR doesn't have a clue and just wants to move to the next call, they'll transfer you to the CC group. In the rare event that you get a CSR who actually knows what he's doing (like the last guy I talked to), he may take on the challenge of getting your TA working again.
> 
> 
> Last time I called, the CSR seemed to know a thing or two and was able to get the TA working within a few minutes. He seemed a little surprised when I told him it sometimes went out within a week or two of being reset, but did say something along the lines of "monthly resets when we send out software updates to set-top boxes aren't uncommon - turning off your TA when you're not watching TV should avoid this problem." (Not really an option, but it provides some insight...)
> 
> 
> He was going to look into why my box blows up so often - called me back a few hours later asking for some additional info, and I never heard anything after that. Funny thing is that my TA has been solid ever since - that was probably 4-5 weeks ago.



I just switched to Tivo HD a in early January. Got my TA in the mail and installed just over 30 days ago. Of course, while traveling overseas the dreaded 8 flashes showed up. When I got back I just called the national CC number that hook and others have mentioned, told them I talked to a CSR and they sent me here for the 8 flashes issue. Guy had me unplug/replug, sent a hit and I'm back solid. Took 5 minutes..after I got through the wait queue.


Now, being a nosy software engineer, I talked to him a bit more about the root cause. He says that originally they had software for the STA1520 that didn't have this problem. But a little while back (I believe he said 2 months ago) they got an update from Cisco that now requires a reauthorization hit every 30 days or it goes into the 8 flash brick mode. He said they are working with the Cisco support and field team in order to get a solution for this and the plan is an ETA of a month from now. It sounded like they were in a hurry to have Cisco fix this to relieve the burden of everybody calling in once a month.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/18145419
> 
> 
> ... they got an update from Cisco that now requires a reauthorization hit every 30 days or it goes into the 8 flash brick mode.



On a side note - this is not unusual for conditional access. I believe the satellite companies do this. The difference is that with them, they actually re-send the required authorization signals on a regular enough basis for their customers to not lose service.










As a software engineer myself, this tells me that TWC is in the business of deploying software to their customers that they haven't fully tested. If they had, they'd either have held off, or set up their headends to re-send EMMs to these boxes regularly... at least, that's what common sense tells us.


If Cisco provided them with software that does this on their 4250s and 8300s, and it got released to customers' boxes, you can be damn sure someone would be in deep poop after their call center got flooded.


It's a good thing they don't have very many TAs out there


----------



## awyeah

BTW, thinking about the March Navigator rollout... are the 4250HDCs currently the newest boxes that are available in the area? I've heard from a lot of people that Navigator isn't always super responsive... I figured that if they have better boxes available, maybe I should swap mine out now


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18149887
> 
> 
> On a side note - this is not unusual for conditional access. I believe the satellite companies do this. The difference is that with them, they actually re-send the required authorization signals on a regular enough basis for their customers to not lose service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a software engineer myself, this tells me that TWC is in the business of deploying software to their customers that they haven't fully tested. If they had, they'd either have held off, or set up their headends to re-send EMMs to these boxes regularly... at least, that's what common sense tells us.
> 
> 
> If Cisco provided them with software that does this on their 4250s and 8300s, and it got released to customers' boxes, you can be damn sure someone would be in deep poop after their call center got flooded.
> 
> 
> It's a good thing they don't have very many TAs out there



Tuner Adapters work well in other areas. It seems that this problem is more of a local issue then TWC in general. Tuner adapters were developed by Cable Labs, Tivo, and the cable companies.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18149942
> 
> 
> BTW, thinking about the March Navigator rollout... are the 4250HDCs currently the newest boxes that are available in the area? I've heard from a lot of people that Navigator isn't always super responsive... I figured that if they have better boxes available, maybe I should swap mine out now



For non-DVRs, yes they are the newest. For DVR boxes, the 8300HDC boxes are the best.


As long as the box is called "HDC" is should be fine. The HDC boxes are OCAP boxes, which get a different version of Navigator called "ODN". The existing boxes have a version called "MDN". ODN is far superior to MDN, even though they are almost the same looking.


----------



## awyeah

It's also possible that in different areas they take different versions of the software at different times.


Any time you deploy a software update to a large number of people, you have to coordinate it - and test, test, test, or you could end up getting a ton of calls if it doesn't work right.


So I suppose it stands to reason that different areas of the country will get updates at different times. I don't know how or if TWC coordinates it nationally, but I'd imagine that the people in charge of the various reasons can take software upgrades when they feel they're ready... for example, even if the rest of the country is deploying an upgrade, if you're in the middle of some other kind of major project, you may want to hold off on it.


Of course, they always test things early in ... where do they do it? San Antonio and Rochester? It seems like NEO is always the LAST place to get the good stuff, especially the old Adelphia areas. Probably because Adelphia's executives funneled all of their money into golf outings rather than infrastructure upgrades


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18150002
> 
> 
> For non-DVRs, yes they are the newest. For DVR boxes, the 8300HDC boxes are the best.
> 
> 
> As long as the box is called "HDC" is should be fine. The HDC boxes are OCAP boxes, which get a different version of Navigator called "ODN". The existing boxes have a version called "MDN". ODN is far superior to MDN, even though they are almost the same looking.



I had read that while ODN is better... it's much slower than MDN? I can't remember, it was on some forum somewhere







Is it bad, or are people just being bitchy?


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18150073
> 
> 
> I had read that while ODN is better... it's much slower than MDN? I can't remember, it was on some forum somewhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it bad, or are people just being bitchy?



It's tolerable on the 8300HDC, but I'd like faster obviously. However, it's not like my TiVo is faster really so I can't complain.


----------



## awyeah

True. You know, the only decent IPG that I've seen lately is the DirecTV one. Boy is that thing snappy!


----------



## oachalon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18150114
> 
> 
> It's tolerable on the 8300HDC, but I'd like faster obviously. However, it's not like my TiVo is faster really so I can't complain.



In my area we now have the 8640HDC. Much faster than the slow pile of crap 8300hdc i had.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18150073
> 
> 
> I had read that while ODN is better... it's much slower than MDN? I can't remember, it was on some forum somewhere
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it bad, or are people just being bitchy?



I've found it to be completely opposite. The MDN guide/UIs are kinda laggy and do this obnoxious fade thing when appearing/disappearing. The ODN guides appear quickly on screen and generally are responsive.


Also, the MDN guide lacks small features, which end up being annoying. In the MDN guide there is no indicator of whether or not a show is HDTV, the ODN guide has it. Also, if you enter a nonexistent channel number with MDN it just flashes ????. On ODN entering a nonexistent channel number takes you to the nexxt highest channel. Really nice feature.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oachalon* /forum/post/18150187
> 
> 
> In my area we now have the 8640HDC. Much faster than the slow pile of crap 8300hdc i had.




oachalon,

Did you pick up the 8640HDC at the Division Drive office? My 8300HDC has been flacky on a few channels and I have been thinking about swapping it out.


Ray


----------



## Goldenager62

Anybody else having CNBC HD freezing up?


----------



## shooter21198




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18162586
> 
> 
> Anybody else having CNBC HD freezing up?



Yes big time freezing


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/18162778
> 
> 
> Yes big time freezing



I going to call it in, not that it will do any good.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18162859
> 
> 
> I going to call it in, not that it will do any good.



Well, do it anyway. That's the problem, nobody complains so it doesn't get fixed.


If they want to roll a truck I'd tell them you've talked to others and they are not having an issue. But they still may want to do a truck roll.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18162879
> 
> 
> Well, do it anyway. That's the problem, nobody complains so it doesn't get fixed.
> 
> 
> If they want to roll a truck I'd tell them you've talked to others and they are not having an issue. But they still may want to do a truck roll.



I did call it in and told them it was happening in the Elyria,OH area and also Erie, PA area. She wanted to send a truck out, so I explain again that it was happening about 100 miles apart and not to bother to send a truck, but to report it to the proper people. She finally understood what I was saying and said she would report it.


----------



## lbvp

It's possible it's a transmission problem off the bird. It would seem unlikely that both headends are being fed from the same source, other than the satellite.


----------



## Goldenager62

Does anybody know what happen to STO HD. I have no signal whatsoever for the last two days.


----------



## oachalon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18157106
> 
> 
> oachalon,
> 
> Did you pick up the 8640HDC at the Division Drive office? My 8300HDC has been flacky on a few channels and I have been thinking about swapping it out.
> 
> 
> Ray



Rbuchina, yes i did pick it up there. Also it seems the ones they are giving out are the 320gb versions, so its a nice increase in space.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oachalon* /forum/post/18166632
> 
> 
> Rbuchina, yes i did pick it up there. Also it seems the ones they are giving out are the 320gb versions, so its a nice increase in space.




oachalon,


Thank for the reply. The next weekday I'm off work I'll upgrade my 8300 to an 8640.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18167198
> 
> 
> oachalon,
> 
> 
> Thank for the reply. The next weekday I'm off work I'll upgrade my 8300 to an 8640.
> 
> 
> Ray



Good Luck Ray. Don't be surprised if you get a big fat no. All they carry in my local office is beat up old SA 8300's.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18167232
> 
> 
> Good Luck Ray. Don't be surprised if you get a big fat no. All they carry in my local office is beat up old SA 8300's.



We still do not have the latest batch of HD channels in Mentor. Perhaps we make up for it by having the latest set top box.


----------



## hookbill

I currently have no SDV HD channels on my TiVo and on the SA8300. Anybody else?


----------



## awyeah

Same here. Just started happening. It's happening on the TiVo and my 4250s. Lame!


----------



## hookbill

Apparently it isn't all HD channels and they are coming in and freezing up. Message on twcable is there is a problem on lifetime. Just another wonderful evening with tw cable.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18180307
> 
> 
> I currently have no SDV HD channels on my TiVo and on the SA8300. Anybody else?



Everything was ok last night here in the Elyria area, except for the last week there has been no STO HD.


----------



## nickdawg

The picture freezes every couple seconds on Nickolodeon HD. Started doing that last night/earlier today.


Still doing it right now.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18181625
> 
> 
> The picture freezes every couple seconds on Nickolodeon HD. Started doing that last night/earlier today.
> 
> 
> Still doing it right now.



Same thing here in the Elyria area.


----------



## Goldenager62

Now I have H&G HD on two channels and no Food HD, plus Nick HD is still freezing and no STO HD.


----------



## hookbill

Getting STO fine over here. Everything appears to be normal tonight.


----------



## nickdawg

Interesting. I have HGTV programming on HGTVD and also on FDHD. Both 445 and 446 have HGTV stuff. NCKHD still has freezing but STOW works fine.


----------



## its.mike

And everything from FoodHD(446) and up is out in Canton


----------



## nickdawg

Oh f-cking hell, now I'm even getting freezing on not HD crap. Craig Ferguson on channel 4 has been freezing just like the SDV channels since around 1am.


I get FDHD, but no sound. HISHD, HDT and DSCHD work, but TLC and others are out.


Everything from 450 up is out. Not even a "unavailable try again" screen.


03, 07 and 08 are also acting like 04. The SDV stuff is completely gone and non SDV or HD stuff is freezing.


----------



## lewis1982

same here.. was half way through a movie on encore and it cut off on me.. I went to change to a different channel and noticed all sdv is out in sharon,pa area..bs


----------



## nickdawg

And this sh-t continues into the morning. Why do I even bother with this company? The two or three shows I watch each day were missed because of this crap.


----------



## Tim Lones

HD DVR is stuck on the blue Mystro E-13 screen..Wife is not happy..


----------



## bassguitarman

TIVO fighting sdv rules
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...r-business.ars


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/18188715
> 
> 
> HD DVR is stuck on the blue Mystro E-13 screen..Wife is not happy..



Took mine over 9 hours to pull it self out of an endless reboot cycle. I thought I was going to have to take it in to be replaced today.


----------



## TYTONK

Expanded basic user here (HD via QAM). HD channels working. Everything else is either a screen with the "Rainbow" test pattern or frozen with the last thing shown on that channel. GO TWC!!!


----------



## hookbill

TWC is having issues. I'm losing both my cable and internet from time to time. They say they are having problems "to the north" on the customer service line. Whatever that means.


----------



## Goldenager62

I actually have all my channels working today. Isn't Time Warner wonderful.


----------



## Goldenager62

I spoke too soon, all the cable is out for the Elyria area


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18196465
> 
> 
> I spoke too soon, all the cable is out for the Elyria area



We had several outages yesterday afternoon in my area.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18196480
> 
> 
> We had several outages yesterday afternoon in my area.



All the boxes are out, no cable, but if you use QAM you still have cable.


----------



## hookbill

Then they are probably doing something to the boxes. Give a call and see if they don't have a pre recorded message.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18196527
> 
> 
> Then they are probably doing something to the boxes. Give a call and see if they don't have a pre recorded message.



Yes they do have a prerecorded message, talking about the outage and saying don't unplug the power cord or disconnect the cable.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18196480
> 
> 
> We had several outages yesterday afternoon in my area.



We been having trouble from Monday night to now.


----------



## Satch Man

They might be preparing the boxes for the Navigator Guide change-over in March. Or an update to Navigator itself if some boxes already have it.


Jack


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/18188853
> 
> 
> TIVO fighting sdv rules
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...r-business.ars



I missed this post somehow. Interesting read, according to what TiVo cable companies have made no effort to actually move towards tru2way, and as a result it's strangling their business. nickdawg, did you read this article?


----------



## Robert K S

Will my DVR-recorded programs be deleted/lost when the switchover to Navigator occurs?


I have supplemented my DVR's hard drive space with an external SATA drive. Will it stop working when the Navigator switchover happens? Will I lose the programs recorded to it?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18204176
> 
> 
> Will my DVR-recorded programs be deleted/lost when the switchover to Navigator occurs?
> 
> 
> I have supplemented my DVR's hard drive space with an external SATA drive. Will it stop working when the Navigator switchover happens? Will I lose the programs recorded to it?



Awwwwww man, that's gonna suck. Navigator is HORRIBLE when it comes to eSATA support. Some versions it worked OK but became "more broken" in other versions. AFAIK, it's still not supported/supported very buggy in the current versions. Since SARA is a professional, quality program all features of their equipment are supported, even though the cable companies don't care about it or market it. And since Navigator was designed by lobotomized chimps who fling their poo at the wall, oh and work for TWC







, Navigator and eSATA are not a good match. Just think how much you see TWC advertise the ability to expand your hard drive, that's how much support they put into their software when they developed Navigator. That's about all I know, I don't have any experience before, and I'm definitely not wasting the money on an external drive now.










As for the TV shows, unless something goes horribly wrong, the ones on the built in hard drive **SHOULD** remain. The only problem is the box might be bricked after the download or the DVR functions might not be enabled, which requires a call to customer service.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18204176
> 
> 
> Will my DVR-recorded programs be deleted/lost when the switchover to Navigator occurs?
> 
> 
> I have supplemented my DVR's hard drive space with an external SATA drive. Will it stop working when the Navigator switchover happens? Will I lose the programs recorded to it?



I'm having good luck with Navigator and the 8300HD boxes. My drives will NOT work withe 8300HDC boxes.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18205798
> 
> 
> I'm having good luck with Navigator and the 8300HD boxes. My drives will NOT work withe 8300HDC boxes.



If your box DOES NOT HAVE a C in the model number, there is a very good chance that E-SATA support will be OK after the Navigator transition.


If your box DOES HAVE a C in the model number, external drives will most likely NOT work.


There are two versions of Navigator. Mystro (MDN) and OCAP (ODN) MDN is for the legancy (non-C boxes) ODN are the C-boxes and the Samsungs. They are the newer versions of Navigator.


ODN boxes because they are newer may get new software updates first. MDN boxes follow with their updates. The features between MDN and ODN versions are very similar but not exactly the same. ODN has maybe one or two little features that MDN does not. However, all boxes are supposed to get almost identical features and updates later this year.


The MDN boxes are often done by box model and type and node. A node is the neighborhood in which you live. The updates GENERALLY occur overnight between 2am-5am and can take about 20 minutes to an hour. A complete change over for a city can range from 2-4 months.


You are SUPPOSED to get an e-mail or phone call with two days to the day before the changeover. You don't have to do anything, BUT IF YOU HAVE AN EXPANDER DRIVE, you may want to unplug it before the transfer night just to be on the safe side. After the conversion, you should be able to plug in your Expander Drive and the box should pick it up along with the recordings on it.


For best results, don't touch the TV or box during the transition, which usually takes about 20 minutes to an hour depending on the following:
The model box you have
Number of recordings on a DVR box
What the user is doing at the time of the change.


You will see the box go off without warning and if you don't get the call in advance, you'll be going "WTF!!!?" Shortly after that, in place of the clock, you will see some hydrogliphics on the screen like:


ALT-100

LOAD- 1

F1


The number in the display will begin to count down from 100 to 1 or up from 1 to 100. It may repeat one or two times. This is Navigator being downloaded to the boxes and is the time where you should not touch anything. Within 20 minutes to an hour the conversion will be complete. You will know it is complete when you see either the clock in the display or a channel in the display and nothing else.

Before your changeover date, some suggestions:

*If you have recordings you value, transfer them to some other medium just to be safe.


Unplug your external drive before you go to bed the night of the changeover. (Before 2AM)


Write down your settings SOON and save them for reference:


My Favorite Channels are:_______________________


I Use a Parental Control Pin and it is:_________________


I use a Purchase Protection Pin and it is:_______________


My DVR List is:_____________________


My Scheduled Recordings are:_______________________


My Series Recordings Are:___________________


If I have an HDTV, my Picture Setting is:______________


My Display Preference is:_________________


My Banner Duration Setting is:______________


My Current Audio Settings Are:_____________________


My Box Display (Clock, Channel, Off) Default is:_____________

*

Than when you get Navigator, press SETTINGS on your remote and verify with the above list. Change what needs changing.


That's about it. In recent months or so, the transitions have actually gone very well, so if you follow the above suggestions, you SHOULD (Knock on Wood) be OK.


Jack


----------



## hdtvfan2005

Takes about 45 minutes to convert a SARA 8300HDC to ODN. The first thing they do is update the CableCard.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18205717
> 
> 
> 
> As for the TV shows, unless something goes horribly wrong, the ones on the built in hard drive **SHOULD** remain. The only problem is the box might be bricked after the download or the DVR functions might not be enabled, which requires a call to customer service.



But the problem with that thinking is that shows record first to the drive with the largest hard drive, and that would be the eSATA. So if you have a 1TB eSATA attached to your SA 8300 with SARA and they switch to Navigator I'd suspect you've got a 99% chance of losing everything you have recorded.


And bricked box? Naw, didn't you hear that when they do this transition there is nothing that the customer needs to do?


----------



## Robert K S

Why will unplugging the external drive during the transition help?


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18209871
> 
> 
> Why will unplugging the external drive during the transition help?


*No no!


You want to unplug it BEFORE the transition! Not during!* LOL!


When you get your Navigator notice, the night before the change-over ,you want to unplug your Expander external drive if you have one. This just gives Navigator one less thing it needs to do. Let it update the recordings and do the transfer with the option drive expander unplugged.


You may even want to spend 12-24 hours with the external drive unplugged because this will allow you to see that everything is working ok. Than you can plug it in and follow the instruction for your external drive for the transfer of the recordings you have on it.

*People who have had their external drives turned on and connected have reported instances of Navigator's installation getting STUCK and not getting unstuck. One guy I know who had an external drive connected during the transfer had no TV and his box got STUCK for 12 hours! Somehow it went through after that.*


The good news is that SOME divisions of Ohio are giving out boxes with bigger hard drives. I think these are the 8500 or 8600 series, not sure. But there is a model out there above the 8300 DVR's that has a 300gb hard drive. The regular boxes only have a 160 gb. hard drive..


Also, the program guide may take up to 24 hours to populate itself with data going seven days out after the transfer. If after the transfer, it only goes two days out, press the Guide Button and the Day+ button on your remote to get more days loaded. If you don't have a Day button on your remote, Press Guide and than enter the number of days you want to advance, than the right arrow key.

*For example:*


To advance three days ahead in the Guide.


Press Guide


Press the Day+ three times waiting for the data to load each time for three days.


OR


Press Guide:


Enter the number 3 followed by the Right-Arrow key to go three days ahead.


Also, IF YOU HAVE SERIES RECORDINGS, NAVIGATOR NEEDS TO FIND ONE OR MORE INSTANCES OF THAT RECORDING UNDER THE NEW GUIDE FOR THAT SHOW. If it does, it will carry over. If it does not, you may have to reprogram your series.


Jack


----------



## Robert K S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18211173
> 
> *No no!
> 
> 
> You want to unplug it BEFORE the transition! Not during!* LOL!



Well, sure, that's what I meant. But... explain to me why this logic is wrong:


If the external hard drive is plugged in during the changeover, the Navigator will notice all those extra episodes and will make sure they are accessible.


If the external hard drive is disconnected during the changeover, when it is re-plugged after the changeover, Navigator will not be able to figure out what all that data is on the drive and will just see it as a bunch of junk rather than as episodes to load into its system.


----------



## Cleveland Plasma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18196465
> 
> 
> I spoke too soon, all the cable is out for the Elyria area



Have you used directv ?


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18215005
> 
> 
> Well, sure, that's what I meant. But... explain to me why this logic is wrong:
> 
> 
> If the external hard drive is plugged in during the changeover, the Navigator will notice all those extra episodes and will make sure they are accessible.
> 
> 
> If the external hard drive is disconnected during the changeover, when it is re-plugged after the changeover, Navigator will not be able to figure out what all that data is on the drive and will just see it as a bunch of junk rather than as episodes to load into its system.



Whatever makes you happy in dealing with the transition is best. As long as you have an MDN non-C box and prepare by writing down your Favorite channels and settings, you should be OK.

*I was just reporting that in some instances (not all) when the MDN external drive was connected, the boxes did get stuck.* But this was the exception, not the rule.


If you leave the box turned on, and you are watching TV at the time of the conversion, you should get a message that says something like:

_"Your system is being upgraded to a new video format. Do not power off your cable box. If this conversion is not complete within 30 minutes, please call customer service."_


What I would recommend is if you have an external drive attached and leave it plugged in to give it a good 90 minutes to convert. With that 30 minute time frame, TWC assumes that nothing else is connected.


The average time without an external drive is between 20-30 minutes. *ODN C-boxes WILL NOT WORK WITH YOUR EXTERNAL DRIVE!* If you have a C-box, you might as well unplug it for good, before the night of the conversion, because there have been almost no reports of a successful external drive recordings transfer to a C-box.


For an MDN box, figure double the time or more for the conversion. ODN boxes will need to do a cable card update as well, and will run between 45 to 60 minutes for a conversion.


Jack


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18215005
> 
> 
> Well, sure, that's what I meant. But... explain to me why this logic is wrong:
> 
> 
> If the external hard drive is plugged in during the changeover, the Navigator will notice all those extra episodes and will make sure they are accessible.
> 
> 
> If the external hard drive is disconnected during the changeover, when it is re-plugged after the changeover, Navigator will not be able to figure out what all that data is on the drive and will just see it as a bunch of junk rather than as episodes to load into its system.



I agree. I don't think it's a good idea to unpair a eSATA with your existing unit. In my mind you will lose all data that you have on the eSATA. Everything should remain hooked up while going through this process.


I don't know about SA but i know for a fact that is what would happen if I were to restart my TiVo without the eSATA. The whole hard drive would be formated.


Not a good idea IMHO.


----------



## AdamPS

I am having a bit of an internal struggle and I was hoping that I could get a little feedback from you guys. I had TW cable until about 25 months ago. At that time I switched over to DirecTV for two main reasons: They had a MUCH better selection of HD channels, and I HATED TWC's DVR. Yesterday in the mail I received TWC's new cable lineup, and was amazed that they have added pretty much every HD channel that I am interested in, including several NOT offered by DTV. So now, I am intrigued. My only hangup is their DVR. When I was last a TWC customer, I believe I was using a Navigator box (blue and white theme as opposed to the yellow and purple theme, if that helps). It would routinely not turn on, not record shows, and could not record 2 HD programs at once on several occasions. I swapped out boxes a few times and experienced the same issues, and by the end I was completely fed up.


So, my question is, now that TWC has at least the programming advantage, are they still miles behind in hardware? All I want is a reliable box that works and will record shows without me having to worry about it. I currently have no interest in getting a Tivo, so I am strictly going to be using TWC's equipment. Bells and whistles are nice but I can live without them if I have to. If it makes a difference, I live in Stow, and currently use RoadRunner internet service. Thanks for any and all input.


----------



## rlb

If it makes any difference, D* will be increasing their number of HD channels probably beginning in April. Their new satellite is in orbit/testing and will give them basically unlimmited room for HD expansion.


----------



## Vchat20

Coming from the Dish Network side of DBS I have to say I would not switch if I were you even if TWC has a small advantage in programming. It will not last for long as both Dish and D* are slated to add more HD channels in the coming months (we actually got a handful just recently on Dish including BBCAHD).


For one thing, the DVR hardware and software still sucks something fierce and TWC is dragging their feet on it. That alone is enough to turn me off. Was painful to deal with. Now with Dish's boxes it is like night and day. And they WORK.


----------



## AdamPS

Thanks for the input guys. The DVR really is a dealbreaker for me. With the exception of Cavs games, I watch pretty much everything on a delay...and if something like Lost didn't get recorded properly my wife would probably divorce me on the spot. I'd love further input if anyone else wants to chime in, but maybe for now it is best to at least wait and see what new channels DirecTV has in store this spring.


EDIT: One more question that I meant to include above. The one bell/whistle that DirecTV DVR's have that I really would miss is their mobile recording ability. I can set a recording from either DirecTV.com or my phone anywhere and anytime, and it will start recording within seconds. Is this feature available on TWC DVR's? I remember it on my old TiVo but don't recall TWC offering it.


----------



## nickdawg

As someone who has TWC and actually hates Directv, I say *DO NOT SWITCH TO TWC*. I only recommend TWC to my enemies.







Their service is awful. I know satellite has its problems with outages and weather, but TWC has Switched Digital Video, a buggy POS that causes outages any time of the day or night, and sometimes for extended periods. That means you're stuck watching your shows in analog(since all the HD channels are SDV) and if you're recording a show, there's gonna be nothing there when you watch it.


FWIW, the DVR "hardware" at TWC has no problem at all. It is the software TWC uses that is the problem. TWC is still using Navigator and they're rolling it out over the entire area now. It's still full of bugs like it was when it was first introduced. Except now there's another bug with recording shows on SDV channels. I've found missing recordings with back to back shows on SDV channels. It's really fun to be recording back to back episodes in a series and have half of them missing.


----------



## AdamPS

Thanks Nickdawg, that was actually very helpful and precisely answered my questions. If you have had so many problems with TWC, might I ask why you hate DirecTV so much?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18223385
> 
> 
> I know satellite has its problems with outages and weather...



Actually this is mostly a farce except for the most ugliest of weather where your last worry is keeping your sat signal. I know Dish for example has their transponder signals bumped up enough that as long as your dish is peaked right you will rarely lose signal. And their modulation schemes have VERY good error correction so the loss of picture at a reduced signal is very rare. If this is your only concern with DBS, it shouldn't be.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> It is the software TWC uses that is the problem. TWC is still using Navigator and they're rolling it out over the entire area now. It's still full of bugs like it was when it was first introduced.



Been following the Ohio thread for info on Navigator's rollout. I would slightly disagree with Nick. I think (at least in my division) Navigator is light years better than it was in 2006-2007 for reliability. However, the guide still LOOKS like a POS and TWC is dragging their feet on new features.


We keep hearing rumors of DVR Remote Management, Manual Recording, and Keyword Search. But I have said by the time TWC divisions get up to what every other competitor has, TIVO will be talking! For features, Navigator still sucks. OK, its got more than SARA, but that's not really a selling point! SARA may be reliable, but it looks like a 1982 Apple II interface.


However, there's some good things I like about TWC:


1.) In 20 years, I have had maybe five service calls and two of them were to replace buggy boxes.


2.) You don't have to pay for service calls, which is nice


3.) Road Runner is very good, and I love Digital Phone. I think Caller ID on TV is cool!


4.) Here in Wisconsin, we have about 100 HD stations. Very pleased with the line-up. We do have some pixiation for maybe one or two days after they are added, but than it goes away. No picture problems otherwise.


Navigator will get added features probably this year in small increments. But I think that software is dated and is a deal-breaker for many people. I am sure Nick and I would agree. How the hell can TWC think that the Navigator Guide is a good product? Maybe for 2000? But not 2010! LOL!


Jack


----------



## Vchat20

Just some friendly counter-arguments, don't take these personally.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18226100
> 
> 
> 1.) In 20 years, I have had maybe five service calls and two of them were to replace buggy boxes.



The biggest unknown and downtime with cable is the plant between of your house and the headend and the miles of coax and fiber therein. With satellite this is all replaced by a fairly reliable air-RF link that, as long as your dish is peaked right, will never go out except in the most severe of weather. And the fact that the satellites feed almost the whole country compared to a fairly tiny footprint a cable headend does (you're talking maybe 10-20 sq. miles at the most, depends on where you live), if something does go wrong up on the bird they have a much more vested interest in fixing it ASAP compared to cable which, as many here can attest to, TWC will take their sweet time fixing.


And in our neck of the woods with all this snow I have found that pointing to Western Arc birds (at least in Dish's case, dunno how Direc has theirs set up) the elevation of the dish is greatly reduced so the snow really has nothing to cling to. Just slides right off.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18226100
> 
> 
> 2.) You don't have to pay for service calls, which is nice



This is a plus for TWC definitely. Though both Dish and DirecTV have inexpensive service plans that cover the same stuff as TWC including the set-tops. In fact I HIGHLY recommend it in the case of box failure as you will either be charged full price for a new box (often in the few hundreds of dollars) or have to renew your contract.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18226100
> 
> 
> 3.) Road Runner is very good, and I love Digital Phone. I think Caller ID on TV is cool!



Caller ID is just as viable with DBS. My only very minor gripe is since it reads the phone line for the CID data rather than getting a direct signal from the digital phone switch the CID info doesn't show on screen till about the second ring and call waiting CID doesn't work. But a positive at least for Dish is if you have multiple ViP boxes they can talk to each other over the power lines and CID info will be passed that way with only one box hooked up to the phone line. The regular pings back to home base work this way too so only one box needs hooked up to the phone line (We have two and I just have them wired to the home network instead which works just the same and no tieing up of the line. And with the DVR it enables full remote control of the DVR functions including deleting recordings, modifying timers, even telling it to tune to a channel on a specific tv output or playing a recording on a given output).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18226100
> 
> 
> 4.) Here in Wisconsin, we have about 100 HD stations. Very pleased with the line-up. We do have some pixiation for maybe one or two days after they are added, but than it goes away. No picture problems otherwise.



This is one big thing I have come to kinda hate about cable is that the service quality and programming varies greatly from area to area. And this is where it is a GOOD idea to compare Cable to Sat to FTTH/FTTN (AT&T/Verizon) in your specific area and not go by someone else's suggestion unless they live in your area. TWC may have good HD programming where you live, but I know here in Northeast Ohio TWC is still behind quite a bit behind the DBS providers. Dish and DirecTV though have the advantage of having the same programming all across the country (well, except for local broadcast channels but you can even play the system a bit and get any region's locals within certain critera if you want).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18226100
> 
> 
> Navigator will get added features probably this year in small increments. But I think that software is dated and is a deal-breaker for many people. I am sure Nick and I would agree. How the hell can TWC think that the Navigator Guide is a good product? Maybe for 2000? But not 2010! LOL!



Indeed. By the time they get it remotely up to date, Dish will have their ViP922 out which will be true next gen stuff including built in Sling (with 720p capability with a separate purchase wireless monitor), web browser on board, widgets for stuff like pandora, twitter, and whatnot. And DirecTV already has their multi-room functionality released to just about their whole customer base in beta form and is REAL MRV where multiple set-tops can share DVR'd recordings over the home network. And I think I have read they are working on added MoCA capability which will go over the sat tuner coax.


Comparing that to TWC's 'Navigator' is night and day. They might have been ahead if they kept Passport around and just continued upgrading it (infact the OCAP version of Passport looks AWESOME with a true 16:9 guide), but alas...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AdamPS* /forum/post/18221560
> 
> 
> I am having a bit of an internal struggle and I was hoping that I could get a little feedback from you guys. I had TW cable until about 25 months ago. At that time I switched over to DirecTV for two main reasons: They had a MUCH better selection of HD channels, and I HATED TWC's DVR. Yesterday in the mail I received TWC's new cable lineup, and was amazed that they have added pretty much every HD channel that I am interested in, including several NOT offered by DTV. So now, I am intrigued. My only hangup is their DVR. When I was last a TWC customer, I believe I was using a Navigator box (blue and white theme as opposed to the yellow and purple theme, if that helps). It would routinely not turn on, not record shows, and could not record 2 HD programs at once on several occasions. I swapped out boxes a few times and experienced the same issues, and by the end I was completely fed up.
> 
> 
> So, my question is, now that TWC has at least the programming advantage, are they still miles behind in hardware? All I want is a reliable box that works and will record shows without me having to worry about it. I currently have no interest in getting a Tivo, so I am strictly going to be using TWC's equipment. Bells and whistles are nice but I can live without them if I have to. If it makes a difference, I live in Stow, and currently use RoadRunner internet service. Thanks for any and all input.




Yes, as far as I can tell they are miles behind on their hardware. If you do a lot of recording, as everyone knows I do, then you cannot rely on the SA 8300. It doesn't seem to have the capacity to deal with someone who constantly time shifts programs.


It's my experience from this forum that those who have success with the DVR do not do 20+ recordings a week. So I still continue to say that the SA 8300 is not a good product.


There are some newer models of DVR's scattered here and there, like the new Samsung and supposedly some upgraded models of the SA 8300. But with Navigator software my understanding is that you cannot use an eSATA with it without having issues.


True they do have many HD channels, but along with that came SDV which has problems in it's own right (though I will admit, that seems to have improved as of late).


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. If time shifting is your thing and you like to have a lot recorded I do not recommend TWC at all unless you are willing to go Tivo or an HTPC+cablecard. The stock boxes TWC offers just do not cut it. The current HDC models only have 160GB of storage for MPEG2 HD (which is paltry at best). And I think the newer samsungs have 320GB in rare cases otherwise still 160.


Right now looking at my Dish box I have 34 recordings on the disk, many are an hour or more in length and just about every one is in HD. There's also a good chunk of these which are MPEG2 off the antenna rather than MPEG4 off the sat. Looking at the capacity meter though it looks to only be about 20% full. 500GB disk built in. Think this would have happened with TWC's hardware? HA! I'd be lucky to get in maybe 15 hour long shows in HD before the room started running out.


And Dish I know allows you to use just about any USB hard drive as archival storage (it will not record to the usb drive but you have to move stuff from the internal drive to it), as many drives as you want (only one at a time obviously), and works on any box on your account with a usb port. And non-DVR boxes can be made into fully functional DVR's this way. All for a one time $40 fee. So you could get a few 1TB drives and archive a whole show season or a couple an put it away for a rainy day when nothing's on.


Here's some reference shots of the remote access feature btw:
    



(Apologies btw for the pro-Sat arguments and I know the mods are gonna come soon and kick a warning my way.)


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18223385
> 
> 
> As someone who has TWC and actually hates Directv, I say *DO NOT SWITCH TO TWC*. I only recommend TWC to my enemies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their service is awful. I know satellite has its problems with outages and weather, but TWC has Switched Digital Video, a buggy POS that causes outages any time of the day or night, and sometimes for extended periods.



But YMMV. I still have SARA on my SA8300HDC. The DVR records two programs at once without any problem and has never failed to record. The only feature I don't like is that you have to fast forward from the beginning if you don't finish watching a recorded program and want to finish it later.


The SDV was an issue several months ago, but I have not noticed any missing channels since then. Picture quality is consistently good on HD channels, given their source. There is much less visible compression than there was even a year ago.


I NEVER like dealing with their tech support people, but I am happy (for the moment) with the equipment and the channel lineup.


----------



## Smarty-pants

Been quite a while since I came around this thread.

It got to the point where I had to unsubscribe to a lot of stuff on AVS... taking up way too much time to read EVERYTHING.

Anyway, I thought I'd check back in and see what's happening...


I was having all kinds of problems with the POS used 8300 box that TW pawned off on me with my new service about a year ago.

So I finally took the box in and they gave me one of the new Samsung boxes a few days ago.

Seems to work pretty good so far.

We don't do a ton of DVRing, so I can't say too much about that.


Looks like TW just did some kind of update several days ago?... at least that's what they said at the office. I didn't really notice anything .

Supposedly they are also getting ready to realign all the channels and put the HD channels in the 1000s.


Sorry if this is all old news. I didn't read back through the thread except a few posts. I see Nick and Hook are still going strong.










So what else is new around here?


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18226374
> 
> 
> Yes, as far as I can tell they are miles behind on their hardware. If you do a lot of recording, as everyone knows I do, then you cannot rely on the SA 8300. It doesn't seem to have the capacity to deal with someone who constantly time shifts programs.



I've just found on the Kansas City HDTV thread that Time Warner has introduced the new Cisco Explorer 8640HD box to that area's system. This post makes mention of it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=8072 


I don't know if we'll get that box here in the Cleveland area.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/18228067
> 
> 
> I've just found on the Kansas City HDTV thread that Time Warner has introduced the new Cisco Explorer 8640HD box to that area's system. This post makes mention of it:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=8072
> 
> 
> I don't know if we'll get that box here in the Cleveland area.



Old news.

My post from a few pages back
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=21522 


Ray


----------



## Robert K S

mbclev, what's good about the Cisco Explorer 8640HD? BTW, cool seeing you over here.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18229040
> 
> 
> Old news.
> 
> My post from a few pages back
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=21522
> 
> 
> Ray



Thanks. My apologies for not noticing.


EDIT: I now have noticed that they're used in the former Comcast areas (at least in Mentor). I don't know when the former Adelphia areas will get it.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18230925
> 
> 
> mbclev, what's good about the Cisco Explorer 8640HD? BTW, cool seeing you over here.



This is not specific to this model, but the 8600 series boxes, for one thing, can have up to 500 GB of internal hard drive storage. More details on this page:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10348/index.html


----------



## awyeah

So last night - or rather, this morning - TWC did something and all of our cable boxes rebooted (and I think the TA did too).


However, when I came home, the little "." was not showing up on the front display of one of my 4250HDCs (I have the clock disabled when the box is off, it's ugly). So I unplugged it and plugged it back in.


During the boot process, the display was flashing "card dnld" for a little while.


Just curious about what that was. I'm assuming the CableCARD was downloading a firmware update at that time?


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18244543
> 
> 
> So last night - or rather, this morning - TWC did something and all of our cable boxes rebooted (and I think the TA did too).
> 
> 
> However, when I came home, the little "." was not showing up on the front display of one of my 4250HDCs (I have the clock disabled when the box is off, it's ugly). So I unplugged it and plugged it back in.
> 
> 
> During the boot process, the display was flashing "card dnld" for a little while.
> 
> 
> Just curious about what that was. I'm assuming the CableCARD was downloading a firmware update at that time?



Yes, "Card dnld" is a software upgrade for the integrated cable cards on SA-ODN (C Model) and Samsung boxes. SA- MDN (Non-C Boxes) are not affected by this update.


Jack


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18244543
> 
> 
> So last night - or rather, this morning - TWC did something and all of our cable boxes rebooted (and I think the TA did too).
> 
> 
> However, when I came home, the little "." was not showing up on the front display of one of my 4250HDCs (I have the clock disabled when the box is off, it's ugly). So I unplugged it and plugged it back in.
> 
> 
> During the boot process, the display was flashing "card dnld" for a little while.
> 
> 
> Just curious about what that was. I'm assuming the CableCARD was downloading a firmware update at that time?



I'm pretty certain that one of my TiVo's rebooted. Both tuners were on the same channel and when I first tuned it on I got the "Tuner Adapter is installed" message. I checked our bedroom box but I didn't see any sign of a reboot.


It would be interesting to see the SA 8300, if it's got Navigator software. I'm also going to look at the diagnostic screen for the tuner adapter and see if it still says SARA or if that's changed.


----------



## awyeah

Speaking of navigator software... and of TiVo...


This photo was taken at TiVo's big event last night. I found it to be quite funny, considering that the literature I've received from Time Warner says that Navigator is the best UI ever and is the future of television.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18244543
> 
> 
> So last night - or rather, this morning - TWC did something and all of our cable boxes rebooted (and I think the TA did too).
> 
> 
> However, when I came home, the little "." was not showing up on the front display of one of my 4250HDCs (I have the clock disabled when the box is off, it's ugly). So I unplugged it and plugged it back in.
> 
> 
> During the boot process, the display was flashing "card dnld" for a little while.
> 
> 
> Just curious about what that was. I'm assuming the CableCARD was downloading a firmware update at that time?



Yeah, that's how software updates go down on C boxes.


Wait, you turn the clock off on purpose?






















If it wasn't for that clock, I'd never know the right time!! LOL


----------



## hookbill

Well nothing happened with any of my TiVo's or the SA 8300. The TiVo tuner adapter still says SARA. And the SA8300 still has that same stupid UI. Nothing to report here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18244943
> 
> 
> Speaking of navigator software... and of TiVo...
> 
> 
> This photo was taken at TiVo's big event last night. I found it to be quite funny, considering that the literature I've received from Time Warner says that Navigator is the best UI ever and is the future of television.



Is that some new Navigator version or something?










I'm not following...


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18245413
> 
> 
> Is that some new Navigator version or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not following...



Heh - no - that was TiVo talking about how bad cable companies' UIs are.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18245935
> 
> 
> Heh - no - that was TiVo talking about how bad cable companies' UIs are.



He knew what it was. That's just nickdawg.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18245974
> 
> 
> He knew what it was. That's just nickdawg.



Darnit!










BTW... does anyone have any new info on when Navigator might be going live? Other than "this month"?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18245974
> 
> 
> He knew what it was. That's just nickdawg.



I had a feeling, but was't sure. I figured it was snobby Tivo people making fun of cable.


I wish I was at that thing, I'd love to see his face when I ask if that "fancy teevo machine" can receive SDV channels without extra hardware that causes problems.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18246346
> 
> 
> I had a feeling, but was't sure. I figured it was snobby Tivo people making fun of cable.
> 
> 
> I wish I was at that thing, I'd love to see his face when I ask if that "fancy teevo machine" can receive SDV channels without extra hardware that causes problems.



What a load of bull. You know just as well as I do that the problem is SDV. Research a bit and you'll learn that moto boxes do not have the issues that the Cisco boxes do. Further, SDV is stalling the development Trui2way.


TW is an absolute discrase with the navigator and their claim of state of the art equipment.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18246409
> 
> 
> What a load of bull. You know just as well as I do that the problem is SDV. Research a bit and you'll learn that moto boxes do not have the issues that the Cisco boxes do. Further, SDV is stalling the development Trui2way.
> 
> 
> TW is an absolute discrase with the navigator and their claim of state of the art equipment.



I haven't heard anything about motorola boxes, other than when Vchat did that comparison and I think that was the box with the really ugly guide. Didn't TWC phase all those boxes out?


And luckily I don't have one of those Cisco boxes. If anything ever happened to my beloved 8300HDC, I would take: refurbished 8000HD, refurbished 8300HD, any non-DVR Scientific Atlanta box or even a SDTV only DVR before I take one of those Samsung boxes.


----------



## awyeah

By the way - yes, I'm up way too late - I was watching Comedy Central - the picture went out, my box went to channel 01. When I changed it back... it looks like Comedy Central SD is now digital. Previously, it was remapped analog.


Other SD channels in the 200s are now digital as well. Spike, E, etc.


----------



## xcrunner529

The SDV tuning adapter issue doesn't affect Motorola markets nickdawg (meaning Motorola back-ends and that use a motorola tuning adapter).


Quite frankly, besides no on-demand (which becomes more annoying each day), I'd take the TiVo anyday - even for the moderate issues. I am able to, however, make two recordings on the same channel back-to-back without an issue. And the interface doesn't make me want to puke.


----------



## Goldenager62

A couple of things I learnt today at the Elyria office of Time Warner cable.

1. There will be a rate increase on our next bills.

2. They only have SA boxes, no more Samsungs.


----------



## hookbill

Reaction:

1. Shocking!!

2. Not surprised at all. You guys were lucky to get them period you ought to see the crap they hand out around here at the Macedonia office.


----------



## bassguitarman

Looks like TIVO won their latest lawsuit against the satellite boxes
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...empt-case.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18247371
> 
> 
> The SDV tuning adapter issue doesn't affect Motorola markets nickdawg (meaning Motorola back-ends and that use a motorola tuning adapter).
> 
> 
> Quite frankly, besides no on-demand (which becomes more annoying each day), I'd take the TiVo anyday - even for the moderate issues. I am able to, however, make two recordings on the same channel back-to-back without an issue. And the interface doesn't make me want to puke.



If Time Warner were truly interested in giving their customers the "State of the Art" DVR they would have entered a partnership with TiVo. Instead they continue to hand out a DVR that barely functions no matter if you compare it to TiVo or to Direct TV. Navigator is a big joke. TiVo would allow MRV and TW wouldn't block all their channels like they currently do so everybody could enjoy a decent DVR.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> If Time Warner were truly interested in giving their customers the "State of the Art" DVR they would have entered a partnership with TiVo. Instead they continue to hand out a DVR that barely functions no matter if you compare it to TiVo or to Direct TV. Navigator is a big joke.



Cosign!!!


I hope this gets rubbed into the faces of every TWC executive! The competition should go on TV showing the comparisons of Navigator as the "Before" product and Tivo, or just about any competition as the "after" product:


Tivo

U-Verse

Direct-TV

Dish


The sad thing is that with better search options, such as Keyword Search, Guide Filtering, Manual Recording, all these things TALKED about coming in future updates, but that we have never seen on the boxes since Navigator has been in distribution in various cable markets for almost FOUR YEARS. What a joke!


Concerning the competition and the program guides, Navigator really is the lowest of the low!


Jack


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18247371
> 
> 
> The SDV tuning adapter issue doesn't affect Motorola markets nickdawg (meaning Motorola back-ends and that use a motorola tuning adapter).



Not necessarily. It all depends on how the local system is run. There's plenty of SA systems(mostly ones with SARA) that have SDV and none of these problems at all. The national TWC boards were shocked at the things I said about TWC. I thnk that's why Snatch Man still follows this topic.







It's the incompetence of this sh-tty TWC system, not the equipment itself. Even if they had Motorola equipment, TWC would still find a way to f-ck it up.


----------



## xcrunner529

Well the Tivo Tunign Adapter issues are widespread and apparently a bug in the Cisco Tuning Adapter equipment that causes it to lose authorization. This happens in other markets including where I am at right now, Columbus.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18250518
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. It all depends on how the local system is run. There's plenty of SA systems(mostly ones with SARA) that have SDV and none of these problems at all. The national TWC boards were shocked at the things I said about TWC. I thnk that's why Snatch Man still follows this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the incompetence of this sh-tty TWC system, not the equipment itself. Even if they had Motorola equipment, TWC would still find a way to f-ck it up.



Yeah, that's what I thought for a long time too, but the general consensus in the TiVo threads is it's SA and TW in general. The truth sucks.


----------



## nickdawg

I'm not a fan of SA bashing.







Though it's OK with the tuning adapter since that's Cisco junk now. TBH, it seems "SA" has really gone downhill since being bought by Cisco. SA boxes usually are fine. I have no problem with the equipment, which worked fine under SARA and Passport. Usually the "bashers" are people who want more, but that's like buying a Kia and complaining it's not a Cadillac!










See, this POS is proof of how SA has went down the crapper under Cisco.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18250611
> 
> 
> 
> See, this POS is proof of how SA has went down the crapper under Cisco.




I dunno, I think that looks more modern than the 8300. I mean IMHO, they're all pieces of crap, but at least this one looks less like a piece of crap.


On another note - lately - the tuning adapter has been working very well for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18250611
> 
> 
> I'm not a fan of SA bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though it's OK with the tuning adapter since that's Cisco junk now. TBH, it seems "SA" has really gone downhill since being bought by Cisco. SA boxes usually are fine. I have no problem with the equipment, which worked fine under SARA and Passport. Usually the "bashers" are people who want more, but that's like *buying a Kia and complaining it's not a Cadillac!*



You know what, in all the time I've known you that's the most common sense thing I've heard you say. You're absolutely right, you do get what you pay for.


----------



## xcrunner529

I never thought I'd miss Passport, but I do (well not as much anymore since I'm away from my parents house and have a Tivo







). However I can't understand why they thought choosing pink/purple was a good color choice. What was the OS that ran on the old non-hd, non-dvr boxes? I don't even remember what it looked like it's been so long.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18251230
> 
> 
> However I can't understand why they thought choosing pink/purple was a good color choice. What was the OS that ran on the old non-hd, non-dvr boxes? I don't even remember what it looked like it's been so long.



It's funny you mention that because the non-'echo' version of Passport that ran on the older non-dvr boxes such as the ancient Pioneer STBs actually had a few color choices in the settings menu! But upon the update to Passport Echo that got ripped out altogether. Made no sense to me either. (Maybe it was a TWC decision for a special 'feature' for their copies of the software? Makes as much sense as Navigator.







)


----------



## nickdawg

Because they started doing all that gradient/3D-ish crap with Passport Echo. Just like Navigator, I'll bet they don't want to put in the work developing different 3D gradient schemes to have more than one option. Which I really don't care, in all those years I never changed my box off the regular pastel pink/yellow scheme. And that's the very least of the problems with Navigator.










Actually the worst ever color choice is what they did with the early versions of Navigator. The IPG was a blue on blue on blue with a blue font scheme.










Besides I don't give two poops about how the UI looks. I wish there was a way to disable that crap and have a plain, bare SARA style UI. I'll bet these Navigator boxes would run better, like when you disable all that visual theme crap on Windows Vista.










I really wonder ho much of the lagging UI on these boxes is due to memory wasted for UI visual theme crap?


----------



## Vchat20

Probably very little. You'd be very surprised how little of a difference in size/resource usage there'd be between of the two different UI styles. Much of it is all just pre-rendered images and no special fancy effects done at run-time. The problem with Navigator is the incompetent programmers behind it who couldn't optimize their code if their life depended on it. Clean it up, rewrite some code so it's a couple dozen lines rather than a couple hundred, etc. and I bet you it would start showing speed improvements real quick!


I do agree a little bit though that a real fancy glitzy gui does take a backseat to useful features (the only exception for me is Media Center in Vista and Windows 7, but that has strong functionality and useful features to back up the glitz). At least in terms of Navigator's fairly useless UI just slapped up on a base feature set that pales in comparison to the old Passport. But you have to realize nickdawg that features and UI are mutually exclusive. I wouldn't take SARA any day because it doesn't have as many features as Passport did. Though it worked, Passport did as well (I never had any issues with my DVR recordings on the SA8000 with Passport).


Coming from now being on a Dish box with what honestly looks like an early 90s SARA-like UI (though with MUCH better fonts and no horrible aliasing at HD resolutions) I like it but that is because all the good features are there. WORKING title/keyword search and can type in via the remote keypad like the old cellphone method (punch 2 3 times for c, 3 twice for e, etc.), all the settings within easy reach...


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18250611
> 
> 
> I'm not a fan of SA bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though it's OK with the tuning adapter since that's Cisco junk now. TBH, it seems "SA" has really gone downhill since being bought by Cisco. SA boxes usually are fine. I have no problem with the equipment, which worked fine under SARA and Passport. Usually the "bashers" are people who want more, but that's like buying a Kia and complaining it's not a Cadillac!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See, this POS is proof of how SA has went down the crapper under Cisco.



What is the model number of that box? Is it bigger, smaller, or the same size as the MDN SA-8300HD DVR?


Jack


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18253023
> 
> 
> What is the model number of that box? Is it bigger, smaller, or the same size as the MDN SA-8300HD DVR?
> 
> 
> Jack



I think the display gives the model number away.










I dunno about the size comparison bit, but Cisco has the PDF brochure up: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...F3nUoxSURiuh9g


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18246844
> 
> 
> By the way - yes, I'm up way too late - I was watching Comedy Central - the picture went out, my box went to channel 01. When I changed it back... it looks like Comedy Central SD is now digital. Previously, it was remapped analog.
> 
> 
> Other SD channels in the 200s are now digital as well. Spike, E, etc.



About time! Welcome to the 21st century!











Hookbill, nickdawg? Any info on this change in your neck of the woods or still in the 18th century?


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18253061
> 
> 
> I think the display gives the model number away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno about the size comparison bit, but Cisco has the PDF brochure up: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...F3nUoxSURiuh9g



LOL!!! I'm an idiot! Yea, it's in the display. So this is most likely what you get if your SA-8300 goes bad? (Or a Samsung?)


Jack


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Actually the worst ever color choice is what they did with the early versions of Navigator. The IPG was a blue on blue on blue with a blue font scheme.



Cosign!!!!


Actually, I know a guy that liked the old blue on blue GUI better! CRAP!


But I agree, multiple color skins are not the main development of Navigator's current issues. But I still always thought SARA was an eyesore to look at.


People want a reliable DVR/Navigator with easy to use features. I think Passport was the best of cable guide GUI's. It had its problems for a couple years when it first came out, but was rock solid after that. The new Passport GUI is very TIVO-like in the sceenshots I have seen, but seems a bit overwhelming.


However, I understand you can customize the Passport Guide to resemble "Classic Views."


Jack


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18253098
> 
> 
> LOL!!! I'm an idiot! Yea, it's in the display. So this is most likely what you get if your SA-8300 goes bad? (Or a Samsung?)
> 
> 
> Jack



Doubtful. With TWC it is a case where you will only see the hardware if they have purchased any in your area. Cisco/Samsung may have released brand new models but TWC has to purhcase them and put them out in the field.


So far here in NEO I have not seen much of any word of anything beyond the 8300HDC's and one or two models of the Samsungs (with one being 160GB and the other 320GB IIRC.). And TBH a new box is not going to help much of anything until Navigator is improved. In retrospect I'd gladly take an 8300HD MDN box over anything else any day unless they forced me to upgrade to an OCAP box. eSata works. Snappier operation (and probably would coincide with smoother non-glitchy firewire capture), etc..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18253065
> 
> 
> About time! Welcome to the 21st century!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hookbill, nickdawg? Any info on this change in your neck of the woods or still in the 18th century?



Yeah our channels in the 200 range.are now digital. I. An see by the cci byte at 0X02 that the copy restrictions are applied that they have finaly made that change. Watching the.Jazz.and.suns.



That's it from me. Nigiht guys.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18253156
> 
> 
> Yeah our channels in the 200 range.are now digital. I. An see by the cci byte at 0X02 that the copy restrictions are applied that they have finaly made that change. Watching the.Jazz.and.suns.
> 
> 
> 
> That's it from me. Nigiht guys.



I went to the 200's to check this out, and discovered a feature that I hadn't seen before. I came across a pop-up box that said that if would like an enhanced version of that channel, press select twice, and it takes you to the HD version of that channel in one jump.

Since I never hang around the 200's, only the 400's, I didn't know that feature was there.

Is this something new, or has it been there all along?


Ben Music


----------



## xcrunner529

been there for a while ben music. Unfortunately my family just ignores it. Users are so stupid. They do the same thing on windows updates, facebook privacy update, you name it. Any window that distracts them from what they feel like doing regardless of it's benefit or importance is closed ASAP.


----------



## nickdawg

Faux 8 is retarded. Not only are they incapable of putting a news crawl(which is HD) over a non-network HD show(Bonnie Hunt), but they also have to push the picture up on the screen so far that the tops of heads are cut off the screen. Morons.


And usually 5 is the one who doesn't squeeze the picture enough with school closings, the banner covers the screen. But today they were doing some freaky ass split screen thing during The View. Surprisingly WOIO is the only "decent" channel today not screwing with regular programming just to tell us "there is a verdict, but the verdict is sealed and we'll tell you later".


Cleveland TV is sh-t. Period.


----------



## shooter21198

At least in Cleveland they have the ability to do HD News

Erie is still faaaaaaar behind


----------



## xcrunner529

Glad I/my parents live in warren, which gets both youngstown and cleveland stations


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18256081
> 
> 
> Glad I/my parents live in warren, which gets both youngstown and cleveland stations



I'd take the Youngstown stations any day. I've been struggling so hard to get WKBN OTA. I'd love that so I never have to watch that WOIO or WJW trash ever again. If only WKBN was a little stronger, they'd blow those two VHF crapfests away.


----------



## awyeah

Hmm, that "HD version is available, press select" thing must be a Navigator feature? Don't have that in former Adephia/SARA-land.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18257392
> 
> 
> Hmm, that "HD version is available, press select" thing must be a Navigator feature? Don't have that in former Adephia/SARA-land.



That feature will be available soon.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18257748
> 
> 
> That feature will be available soon.



I wish TiVo would know that the HD channels are duplicates, so I wouldn't have to go through and check/uncheck stuff every time the channel map gets updated


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/18255433
> 
> 
> At least in Cleveland they have the ability to do HD News
> 
> Erie is still faaaaaaar behind



But the Youngstown newscasts are far more "professional", especially the CBS and NBC station.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18258355
> 
> 
> I wish TiVo would know that the HD channels are duplicates, so I wouldn't have to go through and check/uncheck stuff every time the channel map gets updated



Didn't you know, that's just another one of Tivo's great features!!!


----------



## scnrfrq

TW's Programming Notice said they would be moving channels to the 1,000's around 3/4. Has anyone's been moved yet? Any info on when this will really happen?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18259838
> 
> 
> TW's Programming Notice said they would be moving channels to the 1,000's around 3/4. Has anyone's been moved yet? Any info on when this will really happen?



It's going to happen on 3/8 per the letter I got in the mail. That would be Monday.


----------



## shooter21198

to confirm 3/8 I saw a TV Made Easy Ad last night saying 3/8


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18259838
> 
> 
> TW's Programming Notice said they would be moving channels to the 1,000's around 3/4. Has anyone's been moved yet? Any info on when this will really happen?



I got a letter in the mail about a week ago. It states 03/08, and I also have two different official channel lineup pamphlets... you know, the kind that you'd get from the service desk at TW, the glossy type pamphlet listing all the channels in the new lineup, and it states right on the pamphlet "Lineup effective 03/08/10".


----------



## smoti17

No doubt this posting will lead to the predictable comments, but just to add to the voices expressing tiredness and frustration with the mess that is TWCNEO SDV. :-( Crashes/failures on my TiVo HD are an at-least weekly event since having the Cisco SDV crappybox forced on me, including stuff like:


- recordings that randomly don't happen for no reason

- recordings with parts missing

- blank screens on various channels (a restart is necessary but not always sufficient to fix)

- SDV box crashes and lockouts

- TiVo crashes

- intermittent/scrambled/no captions on certain channels (mostly SfFy HD 476 for some reason)


If the underlying issue is a firmware issue Cisco is incompetent to fix, is it even worth bothering trying to work the problem with the TWC techs ? Other suggestions welcome..


Kudos to TiVo for throwing the book at the US Cable Cos over SDV in their recent FCC complaint, and for doing deals with RCN and with Virgin Media in the UK, but I'm seriously disappointed their new Premiere box does not have SDV built in and still needs to play with this external junk.


Looking forward to further service instability as TWC muck the channel maps about :-(


Keith


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18261169
> 
> 
> No doubt this posting will lead to the predictable comments, but just to add to the voices expressing tiredness and frustration with the mess that is TWCNEO SDV. :-( Crashes/failures on my TiVo HD are an at-least weekly event since having the Cisco SDV crappybox forced on me, including stuff like:
> 
> 
> - recordings that randomly don't happen for no reason
> 
> - recordings with parts missing
> 
> - blank screens on various channels (a restart is necessary but not always sufficient to fix)
> 
> - SDV box crashes and lockouts
> 
> - TiVo crashes
> 
> - intermittent/scrambled/no captions on certain channels (mostly SfFy HD 476 for some reason)
> 
> 
> If the underlying issue is a firmware issue Cisco is incompetent to fix, is it even worth bothering trying to work the problem with the TWC techs ? Other suggestions welcome..
> 
> 
> Kudos to TiVo for throwing the book at the US Cable Cos over SDV in their recent FCC complaint, and for doing deals with RCN and with Virgin Media in the UK, but I'm seriously disappointed their new Premiere box does not have SDV built in and still needs to play with this external junk.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to further service instability as TWC muck the channel maps about :-(
> 
> 
> Keith



Yeah, the week before last Sunday Big Love on Showtime HD was so messed up that I lost 8 minutes of recording. I had to "borrow" a copy from internet sources.


And then Thursday night I recorded (or attempted to) record TNA Wrestling on SPIKE. I turned it on an hour into it and I had a grey screen. And the start of my recording was grey. Then all of a sudden the picture came on, with frequent gliches, so I watched the last hour live.


It's always an adventure trying to record something off of SDV. You just never know.


----------



## Satch Man

Are you guys getting both the Theme Based TWC-Guide and the beginning of the new TWC-Navigator Guide rollout tomorrow? (March 8th.)


Jack


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18266373
> 
> 
> Are you guys getting both the Theme Based TWC-Guide and the beginning of the new TWC-Navigator Guide rollout tomorrow? (March 8th.)
> 
> 
> Jack



Tomorrow they are rolling out the new channel line up. Navigator roll out is supposedly going to happen through the month of March. They even told us it's possible that one set may have navigator while the other is still on SARA, so I doubt it's going to be one massive rollout.


----------



## awyeah

I'm curious how they are going to handle the four-digit channel numbers on SARA, as SARA does not appear to allow direct entry of four digit numbers. I can still navigate to them via the guide though.


Is it possible that they will be pushing different channel maps to upgraded and non-upgraded boxes?


----------



## ClevIndn

Bunch of HD channels deleted from TiVo lineup. About 30 or so, including ESPN, ESPN2, BIG10, USA, HISTORY.. but nothing added yet


Anyone else with TiVo get the message?


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/18266972
> 
> 
> Bunch of HD channels deleted from TiVo lineup. About 30 or so, including ESPN, ESPN2, BIG10, USA, HISTORY.. but nothing added yet
> 
> 
> Anyone else with TiVo get the message?



What suburb are you located in?


----------



## ClevIndn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18266985
> 
> 
> What suburb are you located in?



Sheffield Lake


----------



## awyeah

Haven't seen any changes here on the Macedonia headend.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/18266972
> 
> 
> Bunch of HD channels deleted from TiVo lineup. About 30 or so, including ESPN, ESPN2, BIG10, USA, HISTORY.. but nothing added yet
> 
> 
> Anyone else with TiVo get the message?



I got a message on both of my TiVo's. It said one channel was added, the Gem channel or something like that. I checked my HD channels and everything is still there including all the channels you mention. I suggest you try a guided setup to see if you can retrieve those channels.


----------



## smoti17

Yep, got message on my HD TiVo, saying it had deleted a whole bunch of HD channels from the old numbers, but not adding the new numbers. Keying channels in manually shows they are still available at the old number but not the new ones. Sigh. Added the 3 channels I most watch back in in the hope the rest will be restored shortly. (Am in Shaker Heights.)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18267457
> 
> 
> Yep, got message on my HD TiVo, saying it had deleted a whole bunch of HD channels from the old numbers, but not adding the new numbers. Keying channels in manually shows they are still available at the old number but not the new ones. Sigh. Added the 3 channels I most watch back in in the hope the rest will be restored shortly. (Am in Shaker Heights.)



Hmmmmm....Season Passes should still work if you have any of those set.


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18267479
> 
> 
> Hmmmmm....Season Passes should still work if you have any of those set.



I have received the same message as well as the removal of guide data. Channels are still tunable but there is no guide data or new channel info.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/18267567
> 
> 
> I have received the same message as well as the removal of guide data. Channels are still tunable but there is no guide data or new channel info.



What does the message say?


You guys with TiVo should phone this in. 877.367.8686.


I can't call it in as it hasn't hit my boxes and both boxes have already called in today. Neither of them are scheduled to call again until Monday afternoon so I won't see the line up change until then.


With no guide data that will affect Season Passes. Hard to say who screwed up, it's either Time Warner or Tribune Media. I'm betting it's Tribune Media.


I just checked www.zap2it.com guide for my area (Bainbridge - City of Cleveland-Digital) and it's not showing any of these changes you guys are seeing.


Somebody please call TiVo so hook's television viewing pleasure is not interrupted.


----------



## nickdawg

Looks like that is going to be the first areas to get the lineup change.


----------



## awyeah

I'm pretty sure there are two forces at work.


First, your TiVo gets the *list* of channels from the CableCARD (I think it's called the channel map).


The guide data comes from Tribune/Zap2It.


The messages you're seeing are related to the channel map - which obviously changes immediately when there's a lineup change.


----------



## Tim Lones

Getting a boatload of new Digital Cable Qam Channels here in Canton, Including WDLI-TV (main only), Cartoon Network, Disney, IFC, WGN, VH1, CSPAN, ESPNClassic, CNBC, E! and others...Mostly in the 60's and 80's..Nor sure if theyre permanent, but I suspect that it might have to do with the planned new lineup changes on the boxes..My Qam numbers jumped from about 32 to 56..


----------



## ErieMarty

showing up here in the Erie Pa area...


or others getting them too..


----------



## scnrfrq

The new channel lineup is active in Erie now, with the updated guide.


----------



## shooter21198

TV Made Easy is complete now I demand more HD channels instead of TWC's fake 100 HD channels


----------



## awyeah

The guide changes that people have been describing have appeared on my TiVo. This looks like maybe the GUIDE data was updated - zap2it.com shows most of the HD channels missing... but the CHANNEL MAP apparently has NOT been updated.


I hope that gets corrected soon, but I have a feeling it will be a few days... so... ugh, we're going to have to watch TV LIVE for the time being... I know, how horrible, right?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18269955
> 
> 
> The guide changes that people have been describing have appeared on my TiVo. This looks like maybe the GUIDE data was updated - zap2it.com shows most of the HD channels missing... but the CHANNEL MAP apparently has NOT been updated.
> 
> 
> I hope that gets corrected soon, but I have a feeling it will be a few days... so... ugh, we're going to have to watch TV LIVE for the time being... I know, how horrible, right?



It's not a matter of watching live TV. Most of the shows that I watch are shows that continue from episode to episode. Since I'm a week behind that means I could possibly miss an episode of a series. It's just something that shouldn't happen.


A quick look over at Time Warners own guide on line indicates the problem. They have removed most of the HD channels themselves and have not provided the new HD Channels in the 1000 range. Tribune Media is going by information that is incorrect that they received by Time Warner.


The last time they did this it went seamlessly. It doesn't appear that will be the case this time. My lineup has not changed so I have not issued a report to TiVo about it but I will do my best to contact Tribune Media to see if they can look into it.


----------



## xcrunner529

When the switchover happened in Columbus this past fall, I got no notice at all from TiVo that the channels changed or anything. All the 400s and guide still showed everything and I couldn't figure out why none of my channels worked. I thought it was some big mess with the TiVo & Tuning Adapter. I had to reprogram it once my Aunt let me know the channels changed.


OTOH, all other HD channel additions I got a message from TiVo about the updates.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18269955
> 
> 
> we're going to have to watch TV LIVE for the time being



Oh the humanity!! I don't want to live anymore!!!











Now just what the hell is wrong with watching TV live?










Don't tell me you're one of _those_ people.


----------



## nickdawg











(read into that whatever you want







)


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/18269773
> 
> 
> Getting a boatload of new Digital Cable Qam Channels here in Canton, Including WDLI-TV (main only), Cartoon Network, Disney, IFC, WGN, VH1, CSPAN, ESPNClassic, CNBC, E! and others...Mostly in the 60's and 80's..Nor sure if theyre permanent, but I suspect that it might have to do with the planned new lineup changes on the boxes..My Qam numbers jumped from about 32 to 56..



Ya, I saw those too when I did a scan a while ago. It's been probably a week or more ago.

Ya never know if their going to be permanent or not.

If I had to guess, I'd say "not".


I'm getting the new channel lineup here in Canton too, with all the HDs in the 1000s block.

Seems to have been updated seamlessly while we were sleeping last night.


----------



## hookbill

I checked at 7 am and we did not have the new channel line up in my area yet.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18270440
> 
> 
> I checked at 7 am and we did not have the new channel line up in my area yet.



Hook,

The new HD lineup ( in the 1000's) has landed over here in North Ridgeville, but not yet on tivo. I'm running a new channel scan as we speek, to see if that will catch the update.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18270681
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> The new HD lineup ( in the 1000's) has landed over here in North Ridgeville, but not yet on tivo. I'm running a new channel scan as we speek, to see if that will catch the update.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Doubt channel scan will work so long as zap2it.com has the wrong info. As I said previously TiVo has to be called.


----------



## MediaObsessions

In North Canton, I got the new channel map by rebooting the TA. However, the guide data from TiVo has not shown up yet, so I'll probably miss a bunch of recordings today. I also reported the lineup issue to TiVo via their website.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/18271703
> 
> 
> In North Canton, I got the new channel map by rebooting the TA. However, the guide data from TiVo has not shown up yet, so I'll probably miss a bunch of recordings today. I also reported the lineup issue to TiVo via their website.



Thank You, Thank You, Thank You.


I'm in no hurry to get the new guide data since it's incorrect. So far neither of my TiVo's have called in and I still have not got the line up change at my house.


Don't forget you can manually do recordings, if necessary.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18270085
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of watching live TV.



No no, what I was saying is that I'm going to have to make sure not to miss any of my shows in case the TiVo misses them while it has incomplete guide data


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18270349
> 
> 
> Oh the humanity!! I don't want to live anymore!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now just what the hell is wrong with watching TV live?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't tell me you're one of _those_ people.



Other than extra-loud commercials being shoved in my face (I


----------



## awyeah

Oh - BTW - I am now seeing the zap2it.com guide data filled in for the 1000s! Maybe TiVo will pick it up in time for tonight's shows. I will have to force a call or two.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18272162
> 
> 
> Oh - BTW - I am now seeing the zap2it.com guide data filled in for the 1000s! Maybe TiVo will pick it up in time for tonight's shows. I will have to force a call or two.



Whooo hooooo.....way to go guys!!!!!


----------



## hookbill

Yes, I too see that www.zap2it.com has the new line up corrected. However now we got to get Time Warner Cable to catch up. This all may work out well after all if TWC gets the changes done by later this afternoon.


----------



## awyeah

Does not look like things are updated for me on tivo.com. However, I'm on a TiVo beta, so I actually go to a different website... maybe it just takes longer to get updated. Hook, can you verify what TiVo looks like for you (assuming you're not on a beta)?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18272310
> 
> 
> Does not look like things are updated for me on tivo.com. However, I'm on a TiVo beta, so I actually go to a different website... maybe it just takes longer to get updated. Hook, can you verify what TiVo looks like for you (assuming you're not on a beta)?



I just checked my downstairs TiVo. It still shows all the same channels in the same place but no guide data for channels 430-448. Here's the weird thing about it. It still shows the channels in the guide as being, ESPN, ESPN2 etc. Guide data begins at channel 449 and I am still getting the 400 channels in all the same positions. I did get a message that one channel had changed, but nothing in the 1000s. I'm not a beta person.


My other TiVo should be calling in soon. I'll have to see what that says. I think maybe TW is slowly pulling the switch on this. Is anybody in the old Adelphia area seeing the new line up?


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, this really is "tv made easy". I tried to put CNN on channel 483, it's gone!! Now I'm watching CNN analog on channel 34. _Easy_ to remember the old channel numbers!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18272717
> 
> 
> Wow, this really is "tv made easy". I tried to put CNN on channel 483, it's gone!! Now I'm watching CNN analog on channel 34. _Easy_ to remember the old channel numbers!!



Nickdawg, try 1034, that's where you'll find the new channel. It's the same as the regular channels now so if you can remember 34, just go to the thousands. It actually works.


Eccept in my area, where nothing has changed.


----------



## Goldenager62

We were change over to the 1000's when I got up this morning. Our guide and channels seem to be working fine.









I wonder if this is because we have been on Navigator all along and there weren't any major changes for us.


----------



## smoti17

Seems like a perfect mess over here.

- My Tivo is still missing about half its HD channels from the guide. I can still get these channels

by manually keying the number, but it can't record them so I missed a recording last night and

it's mucked up my season passes :-(

- No sign of the >1000 new channels in my TiVo either by manually keying them or in the guide data

- The one SA box I keep for emergencies like this has not upgraded to Navigator, so has no

way of getting to the brave new >1000 channel world. Power-cycling it has not helped :-(


So between them TWC and TiVo have mucked up about half the HD channels I get including all the ones I watch. I wonder when they'll get around to fixing it, just as well I'm at home and not on the road right now.


Will trying calling TiVo when I extract myself from this afternoon's meetings. Grrrr.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18272877
> 
> 
> Seems like a perfect mess over here.
> 
> - My Tivo is still missing about half its HD channels from the guide. I can still get these channels
> 
> by manually keying the number, but it can't record them so I missed a recording last night and
> 
> it's mucked up my season passes :-(
> 
> - No sign of the >1000 new channels in my TiVo either by manually keying them or in the guide data
> 
> - The one SA box I keep for emergencies like this has not upgraded to Navigator, so has no
> 
> way of getting to the brave new >1000 channel world. Power-cycling it has not helped :-(
> 
> 
> So between them TWC and TiVo have mucked up about half the HD channels I get including all the ones I watch. I wonder when they'll get around to fixing it, just as well I'm at home and not on the road right now.
> 
> 
> Will trying calling TiVo when I extract myself from this afternoon's meetings. Grrrr.



The new correct guide data is showing on Zap2it.com. They just have to get it to your TiVo now. I would do force calls until I got the new guide data. Edit: Unless they are holding back on it until the rest of us get the new line up, but they don't usually do that. Keep trying to get it to call in and get the right data.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18272654
> 
> 
> My other TiVo should be calling in soon. I'll have to see what that says. I think maybe TW is slowly pulling the switch on this. Is anybody in the old Adelphia area seeing the new line up?



FWIW, we have the new line up here. Wife is dealing with tuning manually to the HD channels now. I made my call to Tivo to report the changes, CSR seemed surprised at the change after I showed him how it's now showing the change on zap2it.com (at least for my zipcode and TWC area). He expects that it should be updated "by Thursday".


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/18272969
> 
> 
> FWIW, we have the new line up here. Wife is dealing with tuning manually to the HD channels now. I made my call to Tivo to report the changes, CSR seemed surprised at the change after I showed him how it's now showing the change on zap2it.com (at least for my zipcode and TWC area). He expects that it should be updated "by Thursday".



What idiots they have working there. They never should have subcontracted the Customer Service. It's absolutely horrible and one of the reasons why I won't recommend TiVo anymore.


That's not saying TiVo is not the best.....It is....but I expect some customer service for what we pay.


----------



## xcrunner529

ha one of the TiVo guys couldn't fix an issue I was having a while back and I asked if he could transfer me to the national TW cablecard support and he was like "This is the cable card support". I was like umm...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18272144
> 
> 
> Other than extra-loud commercials being shoved in my face (I


----------



## awyeah

Generally speaking, I _do_ record just about everything I watch. But I generally watch stuff the same day. I also record a lot of shows/movies that are on at times that are inconvenient.


----------



## Shark73

Nothing yet in Strongsville.


----------



## smoti17

Okay, just been on-line to the TiVo rep. He suggested I power-cycle the TA, which I did, causing the TiVo to report the new channels had been added to the guide. However, the new channel numbers don't yet work on either Tivo nor SA box, the actual pictures are still on the old channel numbers. Hopefully TWC may eventually get the finger out and activate the new channel numbers here in Ye Quainte Olde ex-Adelphia Village sometime this week.


He didn't quite get that the underlying problem was a mismatch between TWC and TiVo's line-up change timing (he also made the mistake of asking about tuning adapter problems generally, and stopped being helpful when I started detailing these..)


Am going to try restarting the TiVo FWIW.


----------



## abcmatt

I'm usually good with remotes but am I missing something? I don't know how to enter channels 1000+ on my remote. Can the remote do it? I have an 8300HD DVR.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/18273919
> 
> 
> I'm usually good with remotes but am I missing something? I don't know how to enter channels 1000+ on my remote. Can the remote do it? I have an 8300HD DVR.



From what I read you'll have to do it by the guide. Apparently you can't enter into the thousands with the SA 8300. At least not with SARA.


----------



## dc44113

I've been reading through a number of pages of this thread. I was hoping someone on here might be able to provide some advice, as I couldn't find a definitive answer about the best course of action. I currently have two SA boxes, one an 8300HD, the other an 8300HDC. I'm scheduled to upgrade to Navigator soon (based on the fact I can't get guide data past tomorrow, I'm guessing it will be Tues night/Weds morning). I have an external HD hooked up to the 8300HDC. It sounds like my best bet for saving most or all of the existing recordings on the two DVRs is to switch the HDD to the 8300HD, as it most likely will not work with the 8300HDC after the upgrade. Is that true? Also, to try to save the recordings on the external HD, should I keep the HD connected during the upgrade or disconnected?


Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc44113* /forum/post/18274267
> 
> 
> I've been reading through a number of pages of this thread. I was hoping someone on here might be able to provide some advice, as I couldn't find a definitive answer about the best course of action. I currently have two SA boxes, one an 8300HD, the other an 8300HDC. I'm scheduled to upgrade to Navigator soon (based on the fact I can't get guide data past tomorrow, I'm guessing it will be Tues night/Weds morning). I have an external HD hooked up to the 8300HDC. It sounds like my best bet for saving most or all of the existing recordings on the two DVRs is to switch the HDD to the 8300HD, as it most likely will not work with the 8300HDC after the upgrade. Is that true? Also, to try to save the recordings on the external HD, should I keep the HD connected during the upgrade or disconnected?
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.



I would leave the eSATA right where it is until the switch comes. I doubt it will make any difference which box it's hooked up to. Navigator seems to be an issue with eSATA. Heck SARA was an issue for me when I had and eSATA and SA 8300.


Just cross your fingers and pray it works. I wouldn't change anything and you won't lose any of your recordings. If you do hook it up to the SA 8300 it will have to format it again and you'll lose all your recordings. So you don't have much choice.


----------



## hookbill

My upstairs TiVo now has the new guide on it with the HD channels in the 1000 range....of course the problem is we don't have the new channels yet...sigh my downstairs TiVo won't get the new guide until tomorrow. So I'm hoping tonight they make a move and change these channels in my area. Don't know what the hold up is.


Interesting tidbit: Even though the old channels are off the 400 range if you manually tune to them they know that it's still there. I set up a manual recording on Spike on 479 and TiVo had it listed as Spike, just not on the guide.


----------



## tjs70

Hook, I have the same situation. My Tivo's have the new channel map yet the new channels are not active yet, so recordings are not correct. Hope they fix this soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/18274449
> 
> 
> Hook, I have the same situation. My Tivo's have the new channel map yet the new channels are not active yet, so recordings are not correct. Hope they fix this soon.



Yes I don't think they will change them tonight. Hopefully TW will switch us over by tomorrow morning.


----------



## MediaObsessions

I forced a connection to the TiVo service around 6PM tonight and got all the guide data, so everything is good to go here in North Canton.


For those with a TiVo hooked to a TA and want to move things along (if TWC has thrown the switch in your neighborhood)...

1) Power cycle the TA by unplugging and plugging it back in.

2) Force a call/network connection to homebase. This will take a long time to complete given the large amount of channels moving.


All in all, not a bad transition. I only lost an afternoon worth of recordings due to no guide data.


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18274503
> 
> 
> Yes I don't think they will change them tonight. Hopefully TW will switch us over by tomorrow morning.



Just talked to the Customer Misinformation Department. They claim Cleveland is due the night of the 8th or 9th for the switchover. Hopefully they are right since this is inconvenient at best. Took 3 Customer service reps and a manager to get any answer.


----------



## Smarty-pants

As far as entering the 1000s block of channels with the remote...

No problem here with the new Samsung STB. Works just fine, and the remote is the same as with the 8300.


----------



## azporter

As suggested, I power cycled my TA then forced a new connection to get the channel remap. It almost worked. I have guide data for most of the 1000's. However, I'm missing data for six local HD channels (just says "To be announced").


I noticed that some season passes updated and some did not. For example, a season pass on 403, still shows 403 in the list even though the channel changed to 1002 and I have guide data. However, if I surf into view upcoming episodes, it will show them as being on 1002. Other season passes correctly show the 100x channel number, though. Very strange.


I tried an additional force connect and tivo restart and that didn't correct the issue.


Do other Tivo users have guide data downloaded for all of the local HDs?


----------



## hookbill

Power cycling the TA has nothing to do with it. You just need TiVo to phone. Home for new guide data. Hopefully two flips the switch tonight.


----------



## Adam P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18274383
> 
> 
> My upstairs TiVo now has the new guide on it with the HD channels in the 1000 range....of course the problem is we don't have the new channels yet...sigh my downstairs TiVo won't get the new guide until tomorrow. So I'm hoping tonight they make a move and change these channels in my area. Don't know what the hold up is.
> 
> 
> Interesting tidbit: Even though the old channels are off the 400 range if you manually tune to them they know that it's still there. I set up a manual recording on Spike on 479 and TiVo had it listed as Spike, just not on the guide.



Same situation here. I re-ran Guided Setup, rebooted the TA and then power cycled the TiVo. I've got the new guide data but channels are still mapped to where they were originally (IE tuning to 430 tells me I'm tuned to A&E On Demand but shows me ESPN HD).


----------



## Satch Man

It sounds like for those already with Navigator and no TIVO, the channel changes went fine. It appears that TIVO and the new channel alignment have not taken place in some markets. Does this transition normally take about 24 hours to complete?


Jack


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/18275920
> 
> 
> I noticed that some season passes updated and some did not. For example, a season pass on 403, still shows 403 in the list even though the channel changed to 1002 and I have guide data. However, if I surf into view upcoming episodes, it will show them as being on 1002. Other season passes correctly show the 100x channel number, though. Very strange.



Wait, Tivo is telling you a series recording for NBC shows(403) is now on PBS WVIZ(1002)?







I thought Tito was supposed to be 'smarter' than that?










I missed two shows tonight. "Chuck" and "The Big Wang Theory" both did not record. I'm assuming they got lost in the transition somehow. Like the one for WKYCD was "not available".










Like I said before, this whole thing is a load of sh-t that stinks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18276293
> 
> 
> Wait, Tivo is telling you a series recording for NBC shows(403) is now on PBS WVIZ(1002)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Tito was supposed to be 'smarter' than that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I missed two shows tonight. "Chuck" and "The Big Wang Theory" both did not record. I'm assuming they got lost in the transition somehow. Like the one for WKYCD was "not available".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said before, this whole thing is a load of sh-t that stinks.



Look nickdawg TiVo is delivering what TW said is there new lineup effective 3/8. Its not TiVos fault that TW didn't pull the switch.


Since my main TiVo downstairs has still not received the guide info all Monday shows were recorded, including Chuck, 24, CSI Miam, Trauma and something else at the same time at 10:00. Its a TW fail not. TiVo issue.


Quit taking pot shots at TiVo. We agreed we weren't going to do that. Grow up and quit acting like you're still in high school.


----------



## xcrunner529

Why someone would continually take shots at a company trying to make an actually decent DVR is beyond me. After all, Time Warner can't so I need some other way


----------



## smoti17

Still no new line-up or Navigator here in Shaker :-(


Was going to poke TWC about it but their on-line chat is stuck in some weird time-warp where Firefox 3.0 does not meet their "Minimum browser requirements". Sigh.


----------



## hookbill

I sent TW an email when asking when we were going to get the new line up and complaining about the fact that the TiVo got the guide data before they changed the line up. Seriously pissing me off.


Let's send them emails, the more they get the more they will take seriously.


----------



## awyeah

I contacted them via twitter (@TWCableHelp). They responded very quickly to tell me they're going to check with their contacts in NEO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18278330
> 
> 
> I contacted them via twitter (@TWCableHelp). They responded very quickly to tell me they're going to check with their contacts in NEO.



I'll do the same. But I think sending emails directly to them is probably more effective.


----------



## smoti17

Emailed TWC asking for a date and an explanation.


Would it really be beyond them to provide a "Service Status" web page ?


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18278341
> 
> 
> I'll do the same. But I think sending emails directly to them is probably more effective.



Actually, @TWCHelp is very responsive and has a lot of abilities to help. They're also knowledgeable. Who knows who you'll get when you e-mail.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18278990
> 
> 
> Actually, @TWCHelp is very responsive and has a lot of abilities to help. They're also knowledgeable. Who knows who you'll get when you e-mail.



I'm covering all my bases. But I haven't seen a response from him. I see other NEO people saying the same thing. But I don't think it's going to make them flick the switch any faster.


----------



## awyeah

They're actually being pretty responsive with me. The guy wants to take the conversation to e-mail. I've never gotten this kind of response from TWC before.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18276648
> 
> 
> Quit taking pot shots at TiVo.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18277307
> 
> 
> Why someone would continually take shots at a company trying to make an actually decent DVR is beyond me. After all, Time Warner can't so I need some other way



I'm not 'taking shots' at Tivo. I'm curious as to why they would 'map' the NBC channel to the PBS channel? That kind of stupidity is up TWC's alley, not Tivo.










Plus what you might call taking shots, I call "keeping them honest". The same reason why I'm up TWC's ass all the time, if I was paying that much for something, I'd be on them whenever it screws up.


----------



## nickdawg

And how nice that TWC "thinks like I think". They added some hillbilly ******* channel in HD. I notice a new channel near the HD locals called "WRLMH". I take it that's in relation to the new owners of WOAC. Really makes me wonder why that worthless dreck on "67" has a HD channel yet WVPX, a prettty serious national affiliate is still SD only. They're supposed to have some decent movies, especially if you are an OAR fan.


----------



## hookbill

Well, this probably means that all of us ex Adelphia people will be in for a night of manual recordings. I have one contact who actually works at TW and this is what she said:

_My understanding is that they're going to do all of the boxes in the north tonight, one box model at a time. It's a protracted process

as we need to look at the number of non-responding boxes after each model upgrade to determine whether the majority of them

have received the upgrade intact before proceeding to the next one. If there are no issues they should be able to get all of the

legacy Adelphia areas in the north tonight._


Sooooo, depending how many different box models TWC actually has out there will depend on how fast we get the switch over. I imagine there are probably some ancient models still out there. Just hope everything goes well, I guess.


----------



## awyeah

I wonder what they mean by "north." I would imagine that the Macedonia headend is not considered to be "north."


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18280543
> 
> 
> I wonder what they mean by "north." I would imagine that the Macedonia headend is not considered to be "north."



Yeah, that is a curious statement. I'm in Strongsville and we have not got the update yet. I have two 8300 boxes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18280461
> 
> 
> Well, this probably means that all of us ex Adelphia people will be in for a night of manual recordings. I have one contact who actually works at TW and this is what she said:
> 
> _My understanding is that they're going to do all of the boxes in the north tonight, one box model at a time. It's a protracted process
> 
> as we need to look at the number of non-responding boxes after each model upgrade to determine whether the majority of them
> 
> have received the upgrade intact before proceeding to the next one. If there are no issues they should be able to get all of the
> 
> legacy Adelphia areas in the north tonight._
> 
> 
> Sooooo, depending how many different box models TWC actually has out there will depend on how fast we get the switch over. I imagine there are probably some ancient models still out there. Just hope everything goes well, I guess.



Navigator?


There's no plausible reason why rearranging the channels would have to be done by *one box model at a time*. Usually that kind of thing is done by nodes, on the neighborhood level.


Whatever the case, things are really gonna be interesting tomorrow.


----------



## awyeah

My bet is that the channel lineup won't change until everyone's been upgraded, considering the fact that SARA can't handle 4-digit channel input.


Even the Navigator areas around here still don't have the new lineup. *Edit:* Some of them do - the channels are in both places (400s and 1000s).


Thing is, deploying software like this is always very risky, because if the software does not load properly, they probably won't be able to remotely recover the box. So if they end up with a lot of non-responding boxes after they send the software down to a group of them, and they are unable to recover them remotely, they may have to stop, because they're going to get a barrage of phone calls from angry customers with nonworking cable boxes.


Now, my guess is that the upgrades go relatively smoothly. I am sure that they've done this process lots of times before, and I'm sure they've done their due diligence and testing.... well, I hope so at least.


When it comes down to it, I just want them to get this over with. It's TV for f*ck's sake. Shouldn't be such a disaster.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18280543
> 
> 
> I wonder what they mean by "north." I would imagine that the Macedonia headend is not considered to be "north."



What concerns me about what she said is the word "update." That in my mind means that the channel line up is running concurrent with the switch to Navigator.


The statement about "the north" indicates to me that's the area they are starting with, but if they are successful the remainder of the "legacy" Adelphia should be taken care of as well.


----------



## awyeah

Sounds like if everything goes smoothly, we'll get it tonight then.


----------



## smoti17

I got an utterly useless reply to my e-mail to TWC, in which I was referred to the web page about the transition I already read saying it would happen "sometime in March after the 8th".


So it seems all the folks with Tivos have to wait until every last SARA box is dragged into the 4-digit world :-(


Wouldn't the correct solution to this be for Tivo to offer a choice of line-ups via guided setup, and let people choose old vs new as and when TWC get around to it ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18280961
> 
> 
> I got an utterly useless reply to my e-mail to TWC, in which I was referred to the web page about the transition I already read saying it would happen "sometime in March after the 8th".
> 
> 
> So it seems all the folks with Tivos have to wait until every last SARA box is dragged into the 4-digit world :-(
> 
> 
> Wouldn't the correct solution to this be for Tivo to offer a choice of line-ups via guided setup, and let people choose old vs new as and when TWC get around to it ?



I don't see how, and I'll tell you why.


Not everybody in the Cleveland Suburbs Area is on SARA. They have Navigator in areas like Elyria and other Western Cleveland. So the guide can only be for 1 area and even if the majority of us are the ones without guide data, that's the way it goes.


When I punch in my zip code I get my choice of two guides. One is for Cleveland, the other is for Franklin. Now Unless Franklin is all SARA and has the old guide available we are just screwed.


I'm not even sure it would make a difference if we picked Franklin. Does somebody feel like doing a Guided setup and finding out?


----------



## awyeah

Hook: I asked one of my coworkers who is in the north-of-Akron area (Brimfield/Mogadore/etc). They're navigator.


He's still got the HDs in the 400s, but he *also* has them in the 1000s. It looks like they're able to migrate the Navigator areas a little more smoothly.


He's running an 8300HD, FWIW.


----------



## awyeah

Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if TiVos are working in those areas.


----------



## hookbill

Some good news. The navigator update is not connected to the line up change. This is per my contact at TWC. Lets hope for the switch tonight.


----------



## bassguitarman

No change. Former Adelphia area Copley Ohio

Dave


----------



## hookbill

Nope, none here in Bainbridge/Aurora area either.







I had to do 5 manual recordings last night.


----------



## Smarty-pants




----------



## 2PuttChuck

On Woot today - TiVo Series 3 High Definition 250GB THX Certified DVR refurbished for $169.99. Is this a "deal" or not?


----------



## nickdawg

Something happened last night. Around 3ish my TV went out and the f-cking box is bricked. There's a "To receive this channel, call customer service" message screen on WEWS 5!!!


----------



## awyeah

My boxes got upgraded to Navigator last night and the lineup was updated for them.


My TA is still on SARA (I don't know if they plan on leaving it that way or not), and the TiVo still cannot receive any channels in the 1000s.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/18284139
> 
> 
> On Woot today - TiVo Series 3 High Definition 250GB THX Certified DVR refurbished for $169.99. Is this a "deal" or not?



Its a refurbished model. You need 2 cable cards to make it work. You can purchase a brand new HD TiVo for 179 at bb and that only requires 1 card. Its an OK deal, not great though.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2PuttChuck* /forum/post/18284139
> 
> 
> On Woot today - TiVo Series 3 High Definition 250GB THX Certified DVR refurbished for $169.99. Is this a "deal" or not?



My take, if you're gonna use it for OTA or with Verizon FIOS service, good deal. If you're going to use it with TWC, I'd pass. TWC, SDV and Tivo are terrible together.


Though you want to talk to Hookbill. He''s the Tivo guy around here.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18284174
> 
> 
> My boxes got upgraded to Navigator last night and the lineup was updated for them.
> 
> 
> My TA is still on SARA (I don't know if they plan on leaving it that way or not), and the TiVo still cannot receive any channels in the 1000s.



My deepest sympathy.










You have HDC box, right? Maybe that's what was happening last night. Great, are all the TVs gonna go out as they "downgrade" everyone to Navigator?


----------



## HD MM

Hey guys,


Anyone in the greater Cleveland area switch to U-Verse? I've been notified it has been made available in my area recently and am thinking about switching from DirecTV.


----------



## awyeah

So far, I'm not really impressed with Navigator. It does have a couple of nice features over SARA, but it's still YEARS behind.


I have two real gripes with it. First, it's slower than SARA. And this is on 4250HDCs, which is the highest-end non-DVD box they have around here.


Second, the clock on the front. With SARA, you could set up the clock to be on when the box was on, and off when it wasn't. With Navigator, it seems to be all or nothing.


EDIT: And - my other gripe, both with SARA and Navigator - I don't have the ability to hide channels from the guide - like the ones I don't subscribe to. I imagine it's because TWC wants you to see what you're missing. Whatever. It's ridiculous that they're missing that feature. TiVo's had it since the 1990s.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18284240
> 
> 
> So far, I'm not really impressed with Navigator. It does have a couple of nice features over SARA, but it's still YEARS behind.
> 
> 
> I have two real gripes with it. First, it's slower than SARA. And this is on 4250HDCs, which is the highest-end non-DVD box they have around here.
> 
> 
> Second, the clock on the front. With SARA, you could set up the clock to be on when the box was on, and off when it wasn't. With Navigator, it seems to be all or nothing.



Well, I'm about 5 miles away from Twinsburg and I haven't got anything on my SA 8300 yet.


I don't know wtf TW is up to now. I'm tired of trying to figure it out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18284149
> 
> 
> Something happened last night. Around 3ish my TV went out and the f-cking box is bricked. There's a "To receive this channel, call customer service" message screen on WEWS 5!!!



Sounds like it just needs to have an addressable hit sent to it. I'm sure you'll survive this one nickdawg.


----------



## awyeah

Hook: Unfortunately, I don't have an 8300 so I couldn't tell you whether or not those got upgraded overnight.


Seriously though, an 8300?! WTF I thought you were a TiVo person


----------



## hookbill

My wife wanted a DVR for her area that she has and we didn't want to pay for another TiVo service. We already have two so last year I got her a 3 legged pos SA 8300 which has an HDMI connection that doesn't work. She doesn't know any better and she only uses it to record 1 show a week.


In our bedroom and in the living room I have TiVo's. Not much use to me right now.


----------



## smoti17

Nothing here yet, except for another complete non-answer from the e-mail support agent :-(


Also some further minor line-up changes from Tivo. I think getting Tivo to offer a choice via guided setup of old and new line-ups during the transition ought to work, as I'm pretty sure that's what they did during the last line-up change.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18284149
> 
> 
> There's a "To receive this channel, call customer service" message screen on WEWS 5!!!



Pay your bill and don't be a deadbeat.











(I'm kidding!)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18284833
> 
> 
> Pay your bill and don't be a deadbeat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I'm kidding!)



Ha Ha, my first thought. I think nickdawg thinks TWC should pay him for using them. And he might be right if that's the case.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18284578
> 
> 
> Nothing here yet, except for another complete non-answer from the e-mail support agent :-(
> 
> 
> Also some further minor line-up changes from Tivo. I think getting Tivo to offer a choice via guided setup of old and new line-ups during the transition ought to work, as I'm pretty sure that's what they did during the last line-up change.



Try explaining that to those morons they have as CSR's over there. They wouldn't understand what you were saying, and even if they did I don't think that Tribune Media will do it.


I'm afraid to call and say anything about the line up because if I do chances are TWC will give us the new line up and we'll be screwed again.


FWIW, I checked that SA 8300 today. Still SARA and damn, can they make that hard drive any louder. Sounded like a Harley. OK, maybe like a Honda but it was still loud.


----------



## nickdawg

That's probly why Hook. They update the software one box model at a time. They must've done the HDC OCAP Digital Navigator boxes last night. Since you have 8300*HD*, it wasn't done yet. FWIW, the 8300HD was one of the last they did here, you'll get to see navigator sometime in May.










SEE!! I told you this software was slow. Trust me, if you have a DVR you'll be begging SARA to come back.







And the 4250HDC is 10x worse than the 8300HDC. It only 'keeps' about a day to two days of guide data. If you want to see more, it completely blacks out and says "Please Wait" while it populates the data. Also, it does a random "Please Wait" in the morning sometimes, IDK what time it loads, but I usually have the TV on early.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18285082
> 
> 
> Try explaining that to those morons they have as CSR's over there. They wouldn't understand what you were saying, and even if they did I don't think that Tribune Media will do it.
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to call and say anything about the line up because if I do chances are TWC will give us the new line up and we'll be screwed again.



Given that TWC and Tivo seem to be trying to out-compete each in the moron CSR stakes right, I fear your analysis is correct :-(

Pushing string through each of these ends in the hope they might make it meet in the middle seems a distant hope. Sigh.

Better re-do all my season passes to record the SD/analog channels in the meantime...


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18284240
> 
> 
> So far, I'm not really impressed with Navigator. It does have a couple of nice features over SARA, but it's still YEARS behind.
> 
> 
> I have two real gripes with it. First, it's slower than SARA. And this is on 4250HDCs, which is the highest-end non-DVD box they have around here.
> 
> 
> Second, the clock on the front. With SARA, you could set up the clock to be on when the box was on, and off when it wasn't. With Navigator, it seems to be all or nothing.
> 
> 
> EDIT: And - my other gripe, both with SARA and Navigator - I don't have the ability to hide channels from the guide - like the ones I don't subscribe to. I imagine it's because TWC wants you to see what you're missing. Whatever. It's ridiculous that they're missing that feature. TiVo's had it since the 1990s.



I don't know how it works on the HDC (ODN) but on my non-C HD (MDN) box under "Settings" for the display, it is:
Turn Off (Nothing on display when you power off the box.)
Show Clock Always (What we use)
Show Channel When Tuning (clock when not tuning.)
Show Channel Always.


Jack


----------



## awyeah

Oh here's another question - just curious. All my boxes are HDCs, so they run ODN - OCAP Digital Navigator. The HDs all run MDN - Mystro Digital Navigator. However, when I boot the HDCs, I still see the Mystro logo on the screen when it's starting. How does Mystro come into play on the ODN versions?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18286329
> 
> 
> Oh here's another question - just curious. All my boxes are HDCs, so they run ODN - OCAP Digital Navigator. The HDs all run MDN - Mystro Digital Navigator. However, when I boot the HDCs, I still see the Mystro logo on the screen when it's starting. How does Mystro come into play on the ODN versions?



Not what you're talking about but I got to thinking about what you said about the TW box getting the channel update and the TiVo not getting it.


This is absolute BS. And not a damn thing we can do about it.


----------



## awyeah

Right. My guess is that the TA can't handle the 1000s channels since it also runs SARA.


Either way, once everything is working, I'm going to write a letter about this to the FCC and CC the regional VP of Time Warner. I'll be including my Twitter exchange and my e-mail exchange with them for reference.


----------



## Tim Lones

I am having the same problem as Nickdawg.."Please call.1-877-772-2253". I did call and apparently there is an issue with the boxes now..


----------



## awyeah

Did you try rebooting (unplug/replug) the boxes? This will make them try to re-authorize.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/18286670
> 
> 
> I am having the same problem as Nickdawg.."Please call.1-877-772-2253". I did call and apparently there is an issue with the boxes now..



Just got off the phone with TW....There is a message saying they are aware of the problem and they are working on it.


----------



## hookbill

For the rest of us who haven't had the channel line up change I just spoke to a CSR at TW and she checked with her Supervisor. The line up change is suppose to be completed tonight, specifically between 12 am and 4 am.


Now that's from a CSR so you can take it for what it's worth. It was kind of funny because the CSR said "My supervisor said you will have to reprogram your TiVo." Wrong, all the season passes are already set up with the new channel numbers.


I think the cable company DVRs though have to be reprogramed, do they not?


Let's just hope she's right.


----------



## awyeah

It's getting toward the end of the day... and I'm nervous to go home. I'm very much hoping I'm not affected by any of the multitude of problems facing TWC customers in NEO.


Apparently there are currently three big ones:


* Infinite reboot loops

* Stuck at L-13 during boot

* Unable to get authorization.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18287408
> 
> 
> It's getting toward the end of the day... and I'm nervous to go home. I'm very much hoping I'm not affected by any of the multitude of problems facing TWC customers in NEO.
> 
> 
> Apparently there are currently three big ones:
> 
> 
> * Infinite reboot loops
> 
> * Stuck at L-13 during boot
> 
> * Unable to get authorization.



The last two issues, TWC is aware of and working on. They mention them specifically when you call customer service.


----------



## awyeah

I called CS, I thought the reboot thing was mentioned as well.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18286503
> 
> 
> Right. My guess is that the TA can't handle the 1000s channels since it also runs SARA.



That is a very good point !



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18286503
> 
> 
> Either way, once everything is working, I'm going to write a letter about this to the FCC and CC the regional VP of Time Warner.



Me too. Reference to the FCC's National Broadband Plan "NBP Public Notice #27":

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...DA-10-62A1.pdf 


and Tivo's response to it seems particularly relevant to this whole mess.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18286503
> 
> 
> Right. My guess is that the TA can't handle the 1000s channels since it also runs SARA.



I can assure you this is not the case. My TiVo & TA tune the 1000 channels just fine. (North Canton). There has been no software upgrade. TWC just hasn't pushed the new channel map to your TA yet. And with all the issues being reported for the other cable boxes you can probably see why.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18286329
> 
> 
> Oh here's another question - just curious. All my boxes are HDCs, so they run ODN - OCAP Digital Navigator. The HDs all run MDN - Mystro Digital Navigator. However, when I boot the HDCs, I still see the Mystro logo on the screen when it's starting. How does Mystro come into play on the ODN versions?



Because it is all based on the same original software from the early 2000s, called "Mystro". OCAP Digital Navigator is an altered version of it developed for after the OCAP regulation of 7/1/07. The OCAP boxes with separable security(the M-card or S-card) use a different programming system that the older boxes(think in terms of C++ programming







) Mystro Digital Navigator is (most likely) the closest to the original Mystro project, which is why it looks really dated compared to the ODN boxes, especially on the non-DVR, non-"HDC" boxes.


"Mystro" is Navigator, all versions. Most likely it seems they were originally going to go with "Mystro" when they were first introducing DVR, but shelved it. Now they were sloppy and never took that name off the boot screen. No surprise, considering how full of bugs and holes this software is.


----------



## nickdawg

Oh yeah, now the box that works is doing the "Channel Not Available, Try Again" crap.










And flipping through the channels caused a reboot!!







Plus it rebooted itself last night because this morning it was on channel 1. This is the 8300HDC.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18287624
> 
> 
> Me too. Reference to the FCC's National Broadband Plan "NBP Public Notice #27":
> 
> http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...DA-10-62A1.pdf



Oh man, I hope that gets shot down. I'd hate to see OTA TV go away, especially now.







Dumping TWC gets more tempting by the day.


----------



## ErieMarty

way I got around it was to plug the cable line directly to the TV..so atleast I can watch something...


I tried to call TW..but all I got was a busy signal


MY HD Box tried to reboot..got part way and got stuck and now trying to re boot again..


Damn indians are winning and I can't watch the game....


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18287878
> 
> 
> Because it is all based on the same original software from the early 2000s, called "Mystro". OCAP Digital Navigator is an altered version of it developed for after the OCAP regulation of 7/1/07. The OCAP boxes with separable security(the M-card or S-card) use a different programming system that the older boxes(think in terms of C++ programming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) Mystro Digital Navigator is (most likely) the closest to the original Mystro project, which is why it looks really dated compared to the ODN boxes, especially on the non-DVR, non-"HDC" boxes.
> 
> 
> "Mystro" is Navigator, all versions. Most likely it seems they were originally going to go with "Mystro" when they were first introducing DVR, but shelved it. Now they were sloppy and never took that name off the boot screen. No surprise, considering how full of bugs and holes this software is.



I wonder if Navigator would have been any better if OCAP (called by critics as OCRAP! hahaha) had not been mandated by the government on and after July 1, 2007. Cable was clearly not ready for OCAP box than, and in most divisions, they still suck now.


Jack


----------



## hookbill

The TA should have no problem with channels over 1000. People all over the country use the TA with channels in the 1000s and that's not an issue.


OTA television probably will come to an end unless the government steps in, which I think they will.


----------



## scnrfrq

All the new 1000 level channels have mysteriously disappeared in Erie, PA. Nice goin, TW, as usual....


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18288006
> 
> 
> I wonder if Navigator would have been any better if OCAP (called by critics as OCRAP! hahaha) had not been mandated by the government on and after July 1, 2007. Cable was clearly not ready for OCAP box than, and in most divisions, they still suck now.
> 
> 
> Jack



It should never have been mandated in the first place. It was a prime example of totally useless, crap legislation. And it's on a really stupid premise: that somehow crippling the cableco's own equipment would 'improve' the world for other devices like Tito. It's been two years and Tivo is even worse now because of those stupid tuning adapter boxes.


What the FCC should have done is gone after Tivo itself and mandated that they start releasing boxes that are capable of two way communication.


What the FCC did is like busting the knees of the fast runner so the fat kid has a better chance in the race.


----------



## petem23

Hello. I see there is a crisis going on with the update, but was hoping someone can help me real quick with an off topic. Should be easy questions for you guys. I did go back 10 pages but didn't find what I was looking for.


What HD DVR boxes are available these days? What box is considered to be the best? Can anyone list in order of preference? Anybody got a spec sheet for them?


I've had this 8300HD for what seems like forever now. Just wondering if there is anything new out there worth swapping for. From the previous pages of this thread it sounds like there are some samsungs, cisco, Moto, and SA out there now I just don't know what models. I'd definately like some more recording space and something that looks a little nicer (box itself) would be a plus. I'm paying 10 or whatever dollars a month to rent this thing, I'd like to have the best one available.


BTW I'm in Westlake and as of this morning I've had no change with my channel lineup or guide. Thanks everyone!


----------



## awyeah

petem23: Depends on the area. I think most areas have 8300HDCs. I had heard that the Mentor area has some other model - 84xx? I also saw some talk of an 8500 but I don't know if anyone has it.


You should also consider a TiVo


----------



## hookbill

Woot! had the S3 on sale today as somebody pointed out earlier. That's the nicest looking of all the DVR's.


----------



## awyeah

You know I was just thinking. If TiVo could make a DVR that sells (new) at the $99.99 price point... I bet they'd sell a boatload of them.


I really think the big barrier to entry is the price. $300 is just more than most people are willing to spend, especially when they can just rent the DVR from the cable company.


----------



## petem23

Thanks guys. So with a Tivo, I don't need this crap box from TWC at all correct?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petem23* /forum/post/18288495
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. So with a Tivo, I don't need this crap box from TWC at all correct?



Unless you want to go OTA, do NOT get Tivo, you still need a TWC box, the tuning adapter. And that's even worse than TWC's DVRs.


If you have a working TWC box, don't do anything to it. It's so hard to get one of those, hold on to it.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18288463
> 
> 
> You know I was just thinking. If TiVo could make a DVR that sells (new) at the $99.99 price point... I bet they'd sell a boatload of them.



And they'd get a boatload back the next day as soon as people find out they have to deal with that tuning adapter crap.







And miss recordings because of it.










The only way I would EVER consider Tivo is if I could get Verizon FIOS(and it didn't require a tuning adapter). I read somewhere you can use Tivo with Verizon.


----------



## xcrunner529

Interesting reading about all these issues. We over in Warren/Youngstown got converted from passport to Navigator a year or two ago. My household certainly had no issues other than Navigator's general suckiness. Looking at SARA I'd never miss it, but Passport is definitely missed (even if it was ugly too).


Nickdawg, it is my understanding that there was no way for TiVo to do true 2-way communication to enable on-demand and such with cablecard and I'm not sure what's up with the SDV stuff. Maybe TiVo didn't plan ahead or was missing crucial hardware since most TW boxes seemed to have no problem supporting it.


Tru2way sounds good enough, but the cable companies are lagging getting it out and TiVo is fighting tooth and nail supporting it anyway (please don't just focus on TiVo's wrongdoing though).


I'd like to just go back to TW's box because TiVo really isn't worth the price to me, but for starters I don't have to see black bars everywhere because it's a 16:9 (sorta) interface and Navigator's 4:3 guide and interface if my main sticking point. Of course there's other stuff I love like remote scheduling but TW will eventually get that...I hope! Ha.


----------



## danwv

Interesting change this evening ...











We had the new lineup Monday morning and each night this week, until tonight. Now it's back to the old lineup. Our 8300HD has rebooted once tonight on its own and doesn't have good guide info.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18288790
> 
> 
> Tru2way sounds good enough, but the cable companies are lagging getting it out and TiVo is fighting tooth and nail supporting it anyway (please don't just focus on TiVo's wrongdoing though).



The culprits here are actually the consumer electronics manufacturers. Cable MSOs have supported Tru2Way even before they called it Tru2Way. The tuning adaptor contains an upstream modulator which enables the Tivo to mimic a Tru2Way device. One or two of the CE manufacturers were suppposed to have a T2W set on the market last year, but I never saw one in retail stores.


Also a little understood fact - every cablecard ever manufactured has been capable of 2-way operation. It's not the card that determines whether it's two way - it's the host device, specifically whether the host has an upstream transmitter (modulator) inside. The card itself only handles conditional access and crypto - it has absolutely no RF transmission circuitry in it.


I have an old TV set that was IS-15 capable. This was the 1980s version of cablecards. It was one-way only but it worked surprisingly well, and it made a better picture than the STBs at the time because the video was decoded at baseband by the external IS-15 module and it stayed at baseband. The CE industry wasn't ready for IS-15 at the time, so it died on the vine even though it was a good idea from a technical standpoint.


----------



## xcrunner529

Then what's with Comcast and Time Warner giving timetables for deploying tru2way in other markets? Also, with the tru2way standard part of that is allowing on-demand content through accessing the native cable operator's guide.


----------



## Tim Lones

Update:

We have SA 8240HDC..Wife was able to record "Incredible Hulk" on 989 (WIVM-52)..Since then, back to the same problems.(Not authorized, etc.)I have Young and The Restless on Soapnet and American Idol recording in our living room on an old fashioned VCR..When I have a chance, am going to reboot the DVR, to see if that does anything..


----------



## hookbill

Wow. TW is screwing up big time. I strongly doubt I will see the lineup change by tomorrow.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/18289121
> 
> 
> Then what's with Comcast and Time Warner giving timetables for deploying tru2way in other markets? Also, with the tru2way standard part of that is allowing on-demand content through accessing the native cable operator's guide.



It depends partly on the interpretation of "launching" Tru2Way. The specifications include basic two-way operation uincluding access to VOD, SDV etc. If you have a TV set equipped for Tru2Way, you can do all of this without an external adaptor. But the T2W specs also includes more advanced interactive bells and whistles that are coming down the road. Remembe rthat Tru2Way is largely a new term coined by CableLabs that describes the full implementation of an existing technology.


----------



## awyeah

I believe that one of the requirements for Tru2Way is that the equipment has the ability to download and run applications from the cable company.


For example, when you're watching TV or recordings, you might have the TiVo guide and UI. But when you go to PPV or OnDemand, or whatever other services, it would download the application onto your hardware and it would be the cable company's interface instead.


That is the compromise as I understand it.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18287922
> 
> 
> Oh man, I hope that gets shot down. I'd hate to see OTA TV go away, especially now.



Where in that _consultation_ document does it say there are any plans to shut OTA down ?

It's about making video content access via wired networks easier, AFAICS.


----------



## xcrunner529

Which I'm totally ok with... It's obviously not ideal, but I want on-demand. And if I had any of the premium channels I wouldn't even own a tivo. I'd be giving up a very nice perk


----------



## awyeah

I actually keep a cable box in the living room for on demand... and my roommate likes boxing, so he gets some of those PPV events. Would be nice to be able to do it on one box though.


----------



## Tim Lones

The DVR just rebooted on its own right after 10:00..Seems to be working now but I am not counting on anything where Time Warner is concerned..


----------



## quern

My TA doesn't get the 1000 series... so my tivo is still not recording. On the other hand my TW SA unit updated to the new software and tunes them in. This is so frustrating.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/18290979
> 
> 
> My TA doesn't get the 1000 series... so my tivo is still not recording. On the other hand my TW SA unit updated to the new software and tunes them in. This is so frustrating.



First, check to see if your SA unit is on SARA or Navigator. If it's on Navigator that's probably what the problem is, your TA is still on SARA. Call customer service and see if they can help.


What area do you actually live in or are you in the City of Cleveland?


----------



## awyeah

Yep. It's now day 4 and my TiVo is still not receiving HD channels. I tried power cycling the tuning adapter - but to no avail.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18291005
> 
> 
> Yep. It's now day 4 and my TiVo is still not receiving HD channels. I tried power cycling the tuning adapter - but to no avail.



Power cycling the tuner adapter isn't going to get those channels any faster. I don't know what we can do, I'm at a complete loss of ideas.


If and when the same situation hits my house I will try to contact my person in TW and see what she has to say about that. I don't want to bug her too much, I know right now she is very busy. In the meantime call customer service and go to billing, select other and that way you will get a CSR in the US. Explain the situation to them and see if they can give you any kind of answer.


I also have sent emails out to that person on Twitter but he's not been able to hear anything from TW NEO. Poor communication if you ask me. And unfortunately TiVo users are on the bottom of the list of people they want to take care of.


----------



## awyeah

Well look at the up side. At least our TiVos aren't in constant reboot loops, freezing during boot, and losing authorization like their pile of **** hardware.


Better yet, my TiVo is running beta software and it's more reliable than their DVRs


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18291035
> 
> 
> Well look at the up side. At least our TiVos aren't in constant reboot loops, freezing during boot, and losing authorization like their pile of **** hardware.
> 
> 
> Better yet, my TiVo is running beta software and it's more reliable than their DVRs



Maybe. It makes me wonder if they can't get this thing to work right on their own hardware how in the hell are they going to get it right to the TA, also their hardware.


While this is going on I'm still manually deleting scheduled recordings and setting up manual recordings in the correct channels. The last time they moved channels went so smoothly, this is just ridiculous.


----------



## bassguitarman

Still nothing, former Adelphia area. Assuming they dont stop because of the mess they have going I figure they'll do it this weekend so all my recordings get boned.

Dave


----------



## hookbill

This doesn't make sense. I mean I understand there could be problems going from SARA to Navigator with certain machines but the line up switch should have nothing to do with this. According to my source they are working on them separately.


----------



## tjs70

Day 4, The drama continues here as well. I now have a 4250 with Navigator







a 8300 with SARA







and 4 Tivo's with SARA and no ability to use Season Pass or Guide since the channels are still in the 400's for the Tivo's while the Tivo thinks they are in the 1000's







. I have talked to Customer service no less than 6 times. Every time a different answer. Have a truck roll today. Cause of course we know that will work.







Have talked to my contact that seems to verify a Friday date for complete changeover. However with yesterdays issues who knows. I don't think that Directv would tolerate a 5 day outage. Don't know how this company continues to alienate its customers.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

No changes in Columbia Station, former Adelphia. 8300HD.


----------



## smoti17

No changes here in Shaker, former Adelphia, on either my Tivo HD/TA/CableCard nor my SARA 3250.


Got e-mail back from the TWC CSR blaming it on Tivo :-( Hopeless.


----------



## hookbill

CK, do you have any insight as to when legacy Adelphia area is going to get the channel lineup changed?


----------



## awyeah

By the way, once this is all over, I will be sending a summary and timeline of what happened, along with all of my electronic communications to Time Warner's VP of operations in addition to the FCC.


For the record, here's the address:


VP of Operations

Time Warner Cable

5520 Whipple Avenue NW

North Canton, OH 44720


From this page: http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...esolution.html


----------



## Too_Many_options

from consumerist.com ( a consumer reports site)

Executive Customer Service Number For Time Warner Cable

http://consumerist.com/2009/10/new-e...ner-cable.html


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/18293377
> 
> 
> from consumerist.com ( a consumer reports site)
> 
> Executive Customer Service Number For Time Warner Cable
> 
> http://consumerist.com/2009/10/new-e...ner-cable.html



So I just got off the phone with a John at that number. According to him there is an "issue" in my area which you can say is legacy Adelphia and their engineers are working on the issue however there is NO eta as to when this will be fixed.


Tomorrow, Saturday, end of the month? Who knows?


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Day 4, The drama continues here as well. I now have a 4250 with Navigator a 8300 with SARA and 4 Tivo's with SARA and no ability to use Season Pass or Guide since the channels are still in the 400's for the Tivo's while the Tivo thinks they are in the 1000's .



That sucks!!! If you get up to Day 12, you could reword "The 12 Days of Christmas" song to the "12 Days of Cable!"


Keep us posted.


Jack


----------



## awyeah

Just spoke with the executive customer service people. They gave me the same line of ****: "We experienced a problem with the lineup and are working to resolve it."


They refused to give me any technical information about the problem and would not give me an ETA. I am starting to get the feeling that they either aren't sure what's going on, or didn't plan for the TiVo/TA side of things and are now scrambling to get a fix.


He did, however, say that I should call back after the issue is resolved to get a credit.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18294218
> 
> 
> Just spoke with the executive customer service people. They gave me the same line of ****: "We experienced a problem with the lineup and are working to resolve it."
> 
> 
> They refused to give me any technical information about the problem and would not give me an ETA. I am starting to get the feeling that they either aren't sure what's going on, or didn't plan for the TiVo/TA side of things and are now scrambling to get a fix.
> 
> 
> He did, however, say that I should call back after the issue is resolved to get a credit.



They will give you 20 bucks.


----------



## awyeah

Update: He just called me back to tell me that no credit would be issued for this problem because it's not "affecting their service." This is, of course, complete and utter ********, because if it wasn't their fault, why are they working to fix it? Also, we know they are responsible for the lineup info that gets sent to the guide data providers.


This will also be included in my report to the FCC.


Oh, and I apologize for my ****** language. I hope I'm not offending anyone.


----------



## nickdawg

Sorry, but I gotta side with TWC on that one. Technically, it IS NOT affecting their service. Their service is working fine, this is all on Tivo. It's TIVO'S fault they sent the wrong channel data at the wrong time. If you had a TWC HD box, you'd still be getting your HD channels in the 400s right now. If you had a SDTV box or just a SDYV analog TV, your service would work fine. Face it, as much as this sucks, this is a problem FOR A SMALL FEW in this area. The general public is unaffected by this.


I'll be damned if cable companies should have to give "rebates" for PERSONAL EQUIPMENT FAILS!! _Hey TWC, the picture tube went out in my TV and I can't watch your channels, GIVE ME A REFUND!!_ LOL, no


----------



## awyeah

But I don't think that's the case here. TWC is responsible for providing their channel lineups to 3rd parties. In this case, they provided the correct lineup, but did not provide the proper switchover date.


----------



## nickdawg

But why didn't Tivo switch it back? I mean you all complained to Tivo, why don't THEY do anything? And why did they completely take away the old lineup in the first place? Knowing TWC never sticks to a date, they should have left the old guide and the new guide as options. I'm familiar with those third party "generic" IPG systems, they usually give you several choices by zip code, like analog, digital, OTA, Directv, etc. Tivo should have left the option for both guides, or at least fixed it right now since TWC didn't change their lineup.


TWC is my favorite chew toy, but I gotta give it to them when its fair.


----------



## awyeah

You're right. Perhaps they should have given us the choice. Maybe an option for Old and New. But they didn't. Time Warner reported the change and they were wrong, and Tribune Media took them at their word, which was a bad idea.


I think the root of my frustration here is two-fold. First, I am at the mercy of a company who is basically a monopoly for me, because my apartment balcony doesn't face the right way for a dish, and we don't have U-Verse or FiOS in my area.


Second, they have shown that they really could care less about CableCARD customers, even though it's their legal obligation to provide equivalent TV service. (I understand they don't have to provide VOD or PPV). The amount of problems I've had with this setup - and the amount of time I've had to spend dealing with this stuff is ridiculous. It's television, for Christ's sake. It shouldn't be such a hassle. Look at the telephone system. You buy whatever telephone you want, plug it in, and it works. This should be no different.


For $175/month (that's with 3 other boxes, some premiums and Internet), I really feel like I should get better customer service than this.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18295123
> 
> 
> But why didn't Tivo switch it back? I mean you all complained to Tivo, why don't THEY do anything? And why did they completely take away the old lineup in the first place? Knowing TWC never sticks to a date, they should have left the old guide and the new guide as options. I'm familiar with those third party "generic" IPG systems, they usually give you several choices by zip code, like analog, digital, OTA, Directv, etc. Tivo should have left the option for both guides, or at least fixed it right now since TWC didn't change their lineup.
> 
> 
> TWC is my favorite chew toy, but I gotta give it to them when its fair.



They can't switch it back. Many of the people that are in our area are getting the new line up. There is no way they can have a "option" for 2 lineups, it just doesn't work that way.


Since many people on the Westside are Navigator people they apparently are getting the new line up with no problem. As far as TiVo is concerned they are in the Cleveland Suburbs Area so they have the proper line up.


This fiasco all falls on TWC. If they couldn't finish the job they shouldn't have started the job.


BTW, I have not missed a single recording over the past two days because of this. True I've had to manually reprogram, but I'm still recording my shows and in HD too.


TiVo IS smart enough to realize that channels with transmissions on them but no guide data must be something. For example last night I recorded Psyche on USA. TiVo sees the USA HD channel in the 400's and list it as a "manual recording USAHD" but it doesn't have the guide data there.


Hey, I'm no big fan of their vendor Tribune Media. But I understand why they can't do anything about it.


I don't understand what the problem is still. The last time when they migrated the channels over from the 700's to the 400's there was no problem. Why so many issues this time?


----------



## smoti17

Still nothing here. Non-answer-du-jour from the TWC CSR has changed from outright denial/blaming Tivo to:


"The migration of our channel lineup is scheduled to be completed; however, we do not have the exact date when it will be over. Once it is through new channel lineup will be available on our web site and to our other media affiliates."


Too tired to argue that they *already* made the new channel line-up available..

It is like pushing string, with TWC and Tivo at opposite ends :-(


----------



## hookbill

This is the response I got from my contact inside TWNEO today:


Let's take your questions one by one -


1. Today do we have any better idea then yesterday when this will be fixed.

*Not yet, although it is at the top of our list for resolution. We have a large number of resources working on this at the moment, both internal and external.*


2. Could this possibly be an extended problem that goes beyond weeks to fix?

*I can't commit to a date yet, although I do know that it won't be weeks or months. My gut feeling is by mid next week, although that is only

an educated guess based on what I know about the behind-the-scenes issues and the information I'm receiving from the folks who have their hands

directly on these systems. Please don't hold me to this.*


3. Am I correct in understanding that Navigator and the channel line up are two separate issues or is Navigator causing the problem?

*They are separate but related issues, as both projects funnel through the same IT systems to make them happen. While we can do channel realignments

without pushing Navigator, there are several technical reasons why it makes sense to keep these items closely coupled.*


She also said she would inform me if she hears anything else. Not a lot here really but at least it's something.


----------



## Satch Man

TWC Navigator Tips,


When Navigator was released in 2006-2007 we in Milwaukee Wisconsin along with Lincoln Nebraska were the first to get it. The guide at the time was such a putrid, steaming unreliable POS that half way into 2007, our TWC office canceled any more updates to it for a year to work out bugs.


We got Navigator in April of 2008 and I was so nervous about it, but it was fine. There are STILL things that need improvement. However, the difference in speed and reliability is like night and day.


You need a good box to run Navigator well. AT LEAST an SA 3000 series or higher. The newer the better. DVR subs should have AT LEAST an SA-8240 or better DVR. Or one of the new Samsung boxes.


Most Pioneer boxes, old SA boxes below 3000, old DVR SA-8000 model boxes SUCK running Navigator. This is often because of memory limitations in the older boxes. Get a new box, or at least have the models recommended above.


Next, make sure your wiring and signal strength are very good. When we had Navigator, we had an issue where it was rebooting several times a week. An in house tech, (and when you call for service, make sure you ask for an in-house tech) replaced our cable lines and now the box reboots maybe once a month. Navigator is more sensitive to line input and signal strength than the other guides. This is unfortunate.


There are still issues, but now, they relate to Navigator not being in compliance with 2010 IPG standards. Rumors of Keyword Search, Guide Filtering, and Remote DVR Management are coming in future updates. I think Navigator should get up to Passport after those features are added. They are supposed to be coming later this year, possibly beginning after the late spring early summer transition periods.


Jack


(Also copied to Cleveland Ohio and Albany New York Threads. The next areas getting TWC-Navigator.)


----------



## amtrak23

Anything I can do to get both boxes on same channel lineup? Phone and chat agents keep re-booting box. SA 8300HDC with HD's in 400's running SARA....SA 4250HDC with HD's in 1000's running navigator.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18307022
> 
> 
> Anything I can do to get both boxes on same channel lineup? Phone and chat agents keep re-booting box. SA 8300HDC with HD's in 400's running SARA....SA 4250HDC with HD's in 1000's running navigator.



In the mailing I received it did say that you may experience one box running Navigator while the other runs SARA. There is nothing you can do until they straightened this isht out.


----------



## quern

I woke up this morning with my TA blinking. Reboot to get channels to find that nothing has changed... except my Picture Quality absolutely sucks now! This is just sad.


----------



## Ben Music

Did any notice that in the NR/Elyria lineup that Sho-HD and Sho-HD on demand are backwards in the CH lineup? Sho-HD should be on CH 1642 and Sho-HD on demand should be on CH 1640. Who should we contact to correct this? It's also backwards on my TIVO S3.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18309050
> 
> 
> Did any notice that in the NR/Elyria lineup that Sho-HD and Sho-HD on demand are backwards in the CH lineup? Sho-HD should be on CH 1642 and Sho-HD on demand should be on CH 1640. Who should we contact to correct this? It's also backwards on my TIVO S3.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Fill out the channel line up form at tivo.com You can do it that way.


----------



## amtrak23

Thanks Hook. Didn't get any notice from them here so will stop trying to get both boxes on same guide.


More awesomeness from TW. Paused TNT while watching Blade until I got done eating. Started watching it and after about 45mins the current movie on TNT magically started playing. Remote was laying on the table so I didn't hit live tv by accident.


Now TNT has pixelation like crazy. Non-stop distortion for 10mins or so now. And to think I just had some turd from TW (the lead service tech) come out and watch TV with me for an hour so he could witness the pixelation because they did not believe it was happening.


The joker told me he would call me in the next day or two with some updates and of course he never called back. That is about the 6th time I have been told would receive a call back from these fools and was forgotten about apparently.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18309839
> 
> 
> Thanks Hook. Didn't get any notice from them here so will stop trying to get both boxes on same guide.
> 
> 
> More awesomeness from TW. Paused TNT while watching Blade until I got done eating. Started watching it and after about 45mins the current movie on TNT magically started playing. Remote was laying on the table so I didn't hit live tv by accident.
> 
> 
> Now TNT has pixelation like crazy. Non-stop distortion for 10mins or so now. And to think I just had some turd from TW (the lead service tech) come out and watch TV with me for an hour so he could witness the pixelation because they did not believe it was happening.
> 
> 
> The joker told me he would call me in the next day or two with some updates and of course he never called back. That is about the 6th time I have been told would receive a call back from these fools and was forgotten about apparently.




Do you know what field office your service comes from? This number is for the Concord office, tell them you want the number for your office. 440.354.0030.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18309839
> 
> 
> Now TNT has pixelation like crazy. Non-stop distortion for 10mins or so now.



What model of STB do you have?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/18269773
> 
> 
> Getting a boatload of new Digital Cable Qam Channels here in Canton, Including WDLI-TV (main only), Cartoon Network, Disney, IFC, WGN, VH1, CSPAN, ESPNClassic, CNBC, E! and others...Mostly in the 60's and 80's..Nor sure if theyre permanent, but I suspect that it might have to do with the planned new lineup changes on the boxes..My Qam numbers jumped from about 32 to 56..



I'm having with my QAM here in the Kent area. I'm running the QAM scans and I am getting all the locals except WEWS and WJW. Any ideas anyone?


----------



## k2rj

Getting loads of pixellation/breakup here on most HD channels this afternoon... It gets better for a while and then goes to crap again.


----------



## smoti17

My Tivo HD crashed yesterday evening. I've tried power-cycling it, but it's come back in a very unhappy state, unresponsive, and curiously pixellation that was not there before on all the SDV channels I've been able to try. There's no excuse for software that crashes due to external devices, but it never used to crash like this before I had the SDV box...


----------



## amtrak23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18309914
> 
> 
> What model of STB do you have?



SA 8300HDC & SA 4250HDC. Has been happening since day 1. Today is unusually bad. Every truck roll results in the tech saying it's a headend issue that they are trying to fix.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18309839
> 
> 
> Now TNT has pixelation like crazy. Non-stop distortion for 10mins or so now. And to think I just had some turd from TW (the lead service tech) come out and watch TV with me for an hour so he could witness the pixelation because they did not believe it was happening.



Looks like more SDV greatness. I've been experiencing this on all SDV channels for the last 6 hours or so.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hawkshaw Fernandes, via Web Chat Support* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We are currently experiencing an outage in your area. Our technicians are working to resolve the issue as soon as possible. At this time, there is no known estimated time of repair. I apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for your patience. We are confident that our engineers will have this issue resolved shortly, but if you are still experiencing this issue in 24 hours, please contact us again. We ll be happy to provide an update to you at that time.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HTML source contained in Web Chat Support script* /forum/post/0
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Code:


----------



## amtrak23

Pizza from Papa Johns $10

Watching buzzer beater NCAA games on selection Sunday...$130

$5.85 credit for not actually being able to watch anything....PRICELESS


TW go F*** yourselves


----------



## nickdawg

And TWC is f-cked up again. As I watch CNN today(and other channels last night) the audio slightly cuts out and stutters every few second and the video freezes and breaks up. Like there's a frozen reporter on the screen, then it breaks up as it "catches up".


----------



## amtrak23

Pixelation has improved (still terrible), but now no inet...lol


I called help and the chick told me she could only do basic trouble shooting because all of their systems are down. She has not been able to get logged into her computer and thus can't take a look at our account to see if she can give us a credit or not. She then proceeded to tell me to reboot the modem...I asked why if the systems are down?


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18311270
> 
> 
> Pixelation has improved (still terrible), but now no inet...lol
> 
> 
> I called help and the chick told me she could only do basic trouble shooting because all of their systems are down. She has not been able to get logged into her computer and thus can't take a look at our account to see if she can give us a credit or not. She then proceeded to tell me to reboot the modem...I asked why if the systems are down?



We have problems all day with picture quality. Don't they have anybody that works on Sunday to fix these problems?


----------



## speedyd718

i've had pixelation and audio issues today too. i'm in city of cleveland with a 8300hdc. i also have not received the navigator update or the hd>1000s. i actually didn't know that this was rolling out already. should i try resetting my box?


----------



## amtrak23

Internet is back up, but PQ has gone from terrible to unwatchable.


----------



## nickdawg

OK, now my TV is even more screwed up than it was earlier. All the channels say "unavailable, try again later" on them. Looks like TWC's SDV system must've totally crashed tonight.


Also interesting is the analog and digital versions of TNT are showing different programming. TNHD is showing what's scheduled. TNT analog just had commercials on. Also a few HD channels are on like F/X and FUX Business, but they're acting up like the "not availabel" ones were earlier.


----------



## nickdawg

I wonder if they're gonna do something to the guide or navigator tonight? Whenever I press guide all I get is a blank guide. And CSI:NY on 5 still says "Sports Sunday" on the banner. There's no guise data for TWC customer either.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18311707
> 
> 
> We have problems all day with picture quality. Don't they have anybody that works on Sunday to fix these problems?



I didnt noticed any issues with PQ yesterday here in Amherst other than the signal hits expecially during the Cavs game but since it was a non-SDV channel and not thru a box, my guess is that it was an ESPN feed issue.


I did notice that Style was out but who cares 'bout that


----------



## smoti17

Picture pixellation issues seems to be resolved here this morning.

My TA rebooted overnight, but then that happens most weeks..

Still no new line up or Navigator.


----------



## speedyd718

well now my wife tells me that we have channels out all over sd & hd (particularly the cartoon stations my son watches). twc is really screwing up big time.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/18313653
> 
> 
> I didnt noticed any issues with PQ yesterday here in Amherst other than the signal hits expecially during the Cavs game but since it was a non-SDV channel and not thru a box, my guess is that it was an ESPN feed issue.
> 
> 
> I did notice that Style was out but who cares 'bout that



No, if you would have called it in, you would have found out that this was going on all over northeast ohio yesterday with all sdv, non sdv, and with or without a box.

In fact today, while some things look like they have been corrected there are still problems with many channels, especially with SDV.


----------



## hookbill

Clearly TW bit off more then it could chew. What they should have done is done the channel realignment and then gone ahead with the Navigator thing....Which I could care less about. But no, they have to do everything at the same time.


Not one single title on my downstairs TiVo has the name of the show now. It's all "Manual Recordings" with the channel number on it.


----------



## Sigwolf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18315921
> 
> 
> Clearly TW bit off more then it could chew. What they should have done is done the channel realignment and then gone ahead with the Navigator thing....Which I could care less about. But no, they have to do everything at the same time.
> 
> 
> Not one single title on my downstairs TiVo has the name of the show now. It's all "Manual Recordings" with the channel number on it.



That is probably what they planned to do all along. In typical TW fashion, they didn't think it through first and consider that SARA boxes cannot tune four number channels directly. I suspect they started getting a lot of complaints in areas where they did push the realignment from people not happy with having to scroll through numerous pages of the guide just to switch to a channel they wanted to view. Then they are left scrambling to push the Navigator update as well, which clearly was not ready yet.


This is just supposition on my part, but it fits TW's M.O.


----------



## tjs70











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Satch Man* /forum/post/18293581
> 
> 
> That sucks!!! If you get up to Day 12, you could reword "The 12 Days of Christmas" song to the "12 Days of Cable!"
> 
> 
> Keep us posted.
> 
> 
> Jack





It appears that we are indeed heading for the 12 days of Cable. Could also be "As TW Turns" or Survivor "TWC Edition". In my latest conversations with the customer service agents it appears that they are not doing a very good job of communicating the issues to the agents.


My contact states that it will likely be late this week before we see any movement as they are first trying to fix the tiling and loss of channel issues.



Two weeks with 2 Channel Lineups and 4 Tivo's that are essentially useless.


Thanks TWC!!!!


----------



## smoti17

I used the Tivo line-up error webform to report the problem and request that they offer a choice of *both* old and new line-ups for now. I now have an incident number and a promise of a resolution within a week. Given our luck they'll probably fix it around the same time TWC get their s**t together...


Meantime, my Tivo HD does not seem to be very happy about making manual recordings, keeps disabling them :-(


----------



## hookbill

I attempted to manually record TNA on Spke HD last night. Recording light was on but there was nothing on the screen but grey. Another SDV screw up. And when nothing gets recorded TiVo realizes that so there was no green recording line.


This has been the only manual recording I've had a problem with. While I was looking that my wife was telling me that QVC HD was effed up the SA 8300 (well, thank God for small favors). So apparently between 9 and 10 :00 pm TWC had issues with some SDV channels.


We're all getting screwed by this thing whether you own a TiVo or rent a box from them. A few lucky navigator people I guess are cruising with no problem, probably a lot more then we think since only people with problems talk about it.


I doubt that guide thing is going to fly. TW is going to tell them the line up is correct and we'll be screwed until they finally fix it.


----------



## Cathode Kid

You _might_ see some MDN/lineup activity tonight.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18323896
> 
> 
> You _might_ see some MDN/lineup activity tonight.



Care to elaborate?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18323896
> 
> 
> You _might_ see some MDN/lineup activity tonight.



I'm not sure what "MDN" means, but he did say line up activity so I assume he's talking about some line up changes. This fits in with what my contact guesstimated, middle of this week.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18324190
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "MDN" means, but he did say line up activity so I assume he's talking about some line up changes. This fits in with what my contact guesstimated, middle of this week.



Sorry for throwing around acronyms without explaining them...


Mystro

Digital

Navigator


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18324190
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what "MDN" means, but he did say line up activity so I assume he's talking about some line up changes. This fits in with what my contact guesstimated, middle of this week.



MDN is the Navigator software running on older non-HDC boxes ike the 8300HD's and the Pioneer's (if anyone even has these fossils anymore. Even my tech illiterate neighbor had his replaced with an 8300HDC) and whatnot.


Funny though watching this going on. I would have hoped TWC would have fixed all this by now.


Here's a clue: Get rid of all the analogs for more bandwidth and go all digital like everyone else and get rid of the halfassed SDV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18324245
> 
> 
> Sorry for throwing around acronyms without explaining them...
> 
> 
> Mystro
> 
> Digital
> 
> Navigator



Yeah, probably 80% of the people reading that understood. Well, let's hope your right.


----------



## awyeah

Oh. I know what MDN means







I wasn't sure whether you meant that they'll be rolling it out tonight


----------



## nickdawg

Oh wow, if any of you have a SARA box that's not a HDC, you're really gonna be hating your TV tomorrow.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18324586
> 
> 
> Oh wow, if any of you have a SARA box that's not a HDC, you're really gonna be hating your TV tomorrow.



Wouldn't they be hating that fossil already anyways?







They'd be praising the upgrade.


----------



## nickdawg

Not if they have an external hard drive.







Or just enjoy recording more than one show on a SDV channel.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vchat20* /forum/post/18324254
> 
> 
> here's a clue: Get rid of all the analogs for more bandwidth and go all digital like everyone else and get rid of the halfassed sdv.



+1


Just skimmed the FCC's National Broadband Plan document. Recommedations 4.12 is interesting, 4.13 says:


"On an expedited basis, the FCC should adopt rules for cable operators to fix certain Cable-CARD issues while development of the gateway device functionality progresses. Adoption of these rules should be completed in the fall of 2010."


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18324254
> 
> 
> Here's a clue: Get rid of all the analogs for more bandwidth and go all digital like everyone else and get rid of the halfassed SDV.



Analog *SHOULD* have went away with the DTV transition. It's beyond absurd to think that TWC actually still sells an "analog only" package of the local OTA channels, when the exact same channels can be had for FREE with a picture quality cable can never dream of touching. Even the stuff on "digital" cable, like the stuff that used to be "over 100" doesn't look that good.


I was a restaurant today and they had D* on a flat screen TV. No HD service, just stretched SD and that picture(I think it was ESPN or something) looked better than even HDTV on TWC. And to think if you didn't have a HD box with TWC, that channel would be in analog.


----------



## awyeah

I think the full text is worth posting.



> Quote:
> *Recommendation 4.13: On an expedited basis, the FCC should adopt rules for cable operators to fix certain CableCARD issues while development of the gateway device functionality progresses. Adoption of these rules should be completed in the fall of 2010.*
> 
> Four factors hinder consumer demand to purchase CableCARD devices and manufacturers' willingness to produce those devices. First, retail CableCARD devices cannot access all linear channels in cable systems with Switched Digital Video (SDV) unless cable operators voluntarily give customers a separate set-top box as an SDV tuning adapter. 125 Second, consumers perceive retail set-top boxes to be more expensive than set-top boxes leased at regulated rates from the cable operator. This perception is partially driven by a lack of transparency in CableCARD pricing for operator-leased boxes and by the bundling of leased boxes into package prices by operators. 126 Third, consumers who buy retail set-top boxes can encounter more installation and support costs and hassles than those who lease set-top boxes from their cable operators. 127 Fourth, the current retail CableCARD device certification process, run through CableLabs, incurs incremental costs of at least $100,000 to $200,000 during product development. The process also currently introduces other negative elements, including complexity, uncertainty and delays. 128
> 
> Specifically, the proposed rules should address the four CableCARD issues. They should:
> Ensure equal access to linear channels for retail and operator-leased CableCARD devices in cable systems with SDV by allowing retail devices to receive and transmit out-of-band communications with the cable headend over IP. 129
> Establish transparent pricing for CableCARDs and operator-leased set-top boxes. Consumers should see the appropriate CableCARD charge, whether they purchase a retail device or lease one from the operator, and they should receive a comparable discount off packages that include the operator-leased set-top box if they choose to purchase one instead. 130
> Standardize installation policies for retail and operator-leased CableCARD devices to ensure consumers buying CableCARD-enabled devices at retail do not face materially different provisioning hurdles than those using operator-leased set-top boxes. 131
> Streamline and accelerate the certification process for retail CableCARD devices. 132 For example, the rules could restrict the certification process to cover hardware only, similar to the certification required for cable-ready TVs, to ensure retail CableCARD devices do not harm a cable operator's network.
> 
> Addressing these issues will not require large investments in either headend or customer premise infrastructure. 133
> 
> In fact, fixing these four CableCARD issues will sustain the current retail market for set-top boxes, enable companies that have invested in CableCARD-based products in accordance with current rules to compete effectively until the gateway device is deployed at scale, encourage more innovation until the gateway device is widely deployed and potentially allow for competition in the provision of the gateway device.


----------



## amtrak23

Everything seems back to normal (the normal "sub-standard" amount of pixelation/tiling) today, but the last two programs we tried to record have both stopped short. Both at about the 42 minute mark. This is on our SA 8300HDC.


As if Lost isn't annoying enough...get settled in an all comfy to only have it end abruptly with a "Ended early program not available message".


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18324261
> 
> 
> Yeah, probably 80% of the people reading that understood. Well, let's hope your right.



I think most of the people understand. I'm just not sure that TWC understands!










Jack


----------



## hookbill

No changes here in Bainbridge, at least on my TiVo. I'll give the SA 8300 a look in a bit.


Another night of disappointment. CK, you've been missing a few here and there now. I still have faith in you though, maybe tonight?


----------



## ClevIndn

Got TiVo lineup change.. they moved HD channels back to the 400s..


----------



## tjs70




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18326680
> 
> 
> No changes here in Bainbridge, at least on my TiVo. I'll give the SA 8300 a look in a bit.
> 
> 
> Another night of disappointment. CK, you've been missing a few here and there now. I still have faith in you though, maybe tonight?













No Change here in Cleveland Either. 4250 on Navigator. 8300HDC on Sara and Tivo's in Confusion. My contact said LATE this week. So I didn't have much hope for last night. This is getting pretty irritating. On a positive note my Tivo's have a lot of empty space










Tivo's still have channel guides in the 1000's yet channels in the 400's.


----------



## smoti17

I also got a Tivo line-up change moving the HD channels from the 1000s back to 400s.


Be careful what you wish for...


----------



## pbarach

All of the channels below 98 are blank. Everything above that point is in the same old order that it was.

?????


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18327767
> 
> 
> I also got a Tivo line-up change moving the HD channels from the 1000s back to 400s.
> 
> 
> Be careful what you wish for...



Oh Oh.....I'll have to look for that.


So far everything still has the new line up. God, between TWC and Tribune Media this could be the biggest eff up in TiVo history.


We will see.


Edit: We have the old channel line up back in my area too. Sent an email to my contact at TW she said they are working with Tribune Media to try and keep this straight.


I don't know about the rest of you but it doesn't give me the fuzzy warms. How do we know they won't have it fixed by tomorrow? Then we got to go through the effort of changing the channels again?


Well, at least for now we are set. Provided SDV actually works, which it hasn't last night my wife showed me channels on the SA 8300 that weren't working. She thought this was a good thing, I had to point out to her that it was just another TW screw up.


----------



## awyeah

I'm seeing the same thing. Zap2It has two options - Time Warner Cable Digital and Digtial Rebuild. The Digital Rebuild option has the HD channels in the 1000s, the regular one (which is the one I'm on) now has them back in the 400s.


I just sent a nice note to TWC thanking them for this.


I still plan on writing to the FCC when this is all over


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18333890
> 
> 
> I'm seeing the same thing. Zap2It has two options - Time Warner Cable Digital and Digtial Rebuild. The Digital Rebuild option has the HD channels in the 1000s, the regular one (which is the one I'm on) now has them back in the 400s.
> 
> 
> I just sent a nice note to TWC thanking them for this.
> 
> 
> I still plan on writing to the FCC when this is all over



I'm not sure a nice note to TWC is what's needed here. IMHO TWC caused the whole fiasco by telling Tribune Media that the guides were changing. Apparently they felt it was going to go flawlessly and found out later it isn't.


Now on the other hand I'm not sure Tribune Media isn't at fault as well. Why did it take them 15 days to fix this mess? Or was TW saying telling them the same thing they were telling us, it's going to happen tomorrow or the day after?


Now I also wonder one other thing too. If you do a guided channel set up would there be two lineups that are now offered? This would be the best option as when the channel line up change occurs we would be able to change our line up ourselves without having to rely on Tribune Media. We see the channels gone, we simply go to guided set up and select the correct line up.


I can't do it but if anybody is feeling adventurous and wants to check that out I'd love to hear the results.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18333890
> 
> 
> I still plan on writing to the FCC when this is all over



Just go over to the window and scream: "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!"


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

does anyone else see audio sync issues on WOIO during basketball, or is it possibly a directv thing? actually, i see it during pretty much all network programming, but not always on local programming.


just curious if its a WOIO thing or DirecTV.


----------



## edjrwinnt

All I have to say is I'm lucky I have a backup hi-def DVR. My TiVoHD is clueless right now. I was just starting to think that Time Warner finally got it together and now they do this. My SDV doesn't work and all my channels are screwed up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18345590
> 
> 
> All I have to say is I'm lucky I have a backup hi-def DVR. My TiVoHD is clueless right now. I was just starting to think that Time Warner finally got it together and now they do this. My SDV doesn't work and all my channels are screwed up.



Sounds like you're having a problem with the tuner adapter. Or do you have a tuner adapter in your area? You should have.


Is the light flashing 8 times with a pause? If so then you will need to call TW and have them give you an addressable hit. Make sure you get the serial number off the TA so you can guide the poor misinformed CSR you speak to.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18345604
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're having a problem with the tuner adapter. Or do you have a tuner adapter in your area? You should have.
> 
> 
> Is the light flashing 8 times with a pause? If so then you will need to call TW and have them give you an addressable hit. Make sure you get the serial number off the TA so you can guide the poor misinformed CSR you speak to.



Yeppers and thanks for the info. I actually had the lead tech in our area reset my SDV adapter, and now I now longer get the blinking light. Still no SDV channels though. It doesn't matter anyways until the guide problem is fixed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18345635
> 
> 
> Yeppers and thanks for the info. I actually had the lead tech in our area reset my SDV adapter, and now I now longer get the blinking light. Still no SDV channels though. It doesn't matter anyways until the guide problem is fixed.



SDV is working over here and guide data is correct. They changed the guide data back to the old way about 3 days ago.


Are your HD channels in the 1000's or 400's? If it's in the 400's call TiVo and tell them you have wrong guide data. Right now Tribune Media has TWC digital and TWC digital upgrade to pick from on their zap2it.com website.


You may want to just try a guided channel set up to see if it allows you to choose the proper guide.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18345676
> 
> 
> SDV is working over here and guide data is correct. They changed the guide data back to the old way about 3 days ago.
> 
> 
> Are your HD channels in the 1000's or 400's? If it's in the 400's call TiVo and tell them you have wrong guide data. Right now Tribune Media has TWC digital and TWC digital upgrade to pick from on their zap2it.com website.
> 
> 
> You may want to just try a guided channel set up to see if it allows you to choose the proper guide.



My HD channels are in the 1,000's but my TiVo is showing them back in the 400's. I tried the guided setup and it only gave me the option for Time Warner Cable in Elryia near where I live, and in Franklin wherever that is. I guess I'll have to call TiVo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18348656
> 
> 
> My HD channels are in the 1,000's but my TiVo is showing them back in the 400's. I tried the guided setup and it only gave me the option for Time Warner Cable in Elryia near where I live, and in Franklin wherever that is. I guess I'll have to call TiVo.



DON'T CALL TiVo!!!! Please.










If you select Franklin you will get all your HD channels in the 1000's. Check it out at www.zap2it.com .


I'm afraid some CSR will screw up our listings again. We are still in the 400's.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18348784
> 
> 
> DON'T CALL TiVo!!!! Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you select Franklin you will get all your HD channels in the 1000's. Check it out at www.zap2it.com .
> 
> 
> I'm afraid some CSR will screw up our listings again. We are still in the 400's.



Thanks. I think I'm okay though. I was going to pick Franklin but I picked Elyria and it looks like it's okay. It's just finishing up now. I was able to see the HD channels were in the 1,000's when it asked me what premium channels I got.


----------



## Goldenager62

Yesterday I was getting freezing on my HD channels all day. I would happen every two minutes and last a split second. I called it in to Time Warner Cable. Last night my cable went completely out for a few seconds, now everything seems OK.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18349840
> 
> 
> Yesterday I was getting freezing on my HD channels all day. I would happen every two minutes and last a split second. I called it in to Time Warner Cable. Last night my cable went completely out for a few seconds, now everything seems OK.



Now I have no BIO HD channel, totally black, and one of the home shopping HD channels is freezing up. Everyday it is something.


----------



## Ben Music

My tivo hd is in the 1000's with picture and sound, but no guide info.

I did a complete reset, but no change in guide Info. I have guide info in the 400's, but no picture or sound. Is there anything else I should try, or should I just wait for tivo to catch up with program Info.


Ben Music (North Ridgeville)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18355300
> 
> 
> My tivo hd is in the 1000's with picture and sound, but no guide info.
> 
> I did a complete reset, but no change in guide Info. I have guide info in the 400's, but no picture or sound. Is there anything else I should try, or should I just wait for tivo to catch up with program Info.
> 
> 
> Ben Music (North Ridgeville)



Ben - Run a guided channel set up again, except this time pick Franklin as the area you are in. When you go through the set up the channels may not match but it will only be a couple of analog channels. Say yes to the question. The rest of the channels will match what you currently have.


Then once the rest of us gets converted over to Navigator you can change it back.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18355466
> 
> 
> Ben - Run a guided channel set up again, except this time pick Franklin as the area you are in. When you go through the set up the channels may not match but it will only be a couple of analog channels. Say yes to the question. The rest of the channels will match what you currently have.
> 
> 
> Then once the rest of us gets converted over to Navigator you can change it back.



Thanks Hook, I'll give that a try.


Ben Music


----------



## groebuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18355509
> 
> 
> Thanks Hook, I'll give that a try.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



it depends on where you live what you get..I live in eastlake and there are several channels I never got in HD. I just switched this weekend to a MOXI dvr from tivo and discovered that even the 200 channels were still in analog (moxi is dgital tuners only)..in fact they were suprised that so many of my channels were still analog when the 200's are supposed to be all digital. They sent me an sdv box a long time ago (like 4 months ago) but it has never worked in my area (with my tivo HD and multi cable card)..


When I called time warner to get my cable card paired with my moxi - they assured me that all of this should be resolved monday (03/22). We shall see when I get home. As it stands right now I don't get bravo on the moxi and never got bravo hd - even on my Time Warner 8300HD DVR...it is not even on the guide on the TW DVR. I will see if that changes


(oddly enought the time warner dvr rebooted last night around 8:30 P.M.).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *groebuck* /forum/post/18356642
> 
> 
> it depends on where you live what you get..I live in eastlake and there are several channels I never got in HD. I just switched this weekend to a MOXI dvr from tivo and discovered that even the 200 channels were still in analog (moxi is dgital tuners only)..in fact they were suprised that so many of my channels were still analog when the 200's are supposed to be all digital. They sent me an sdv box a long time ago (like 4 months ago) but it has never worked in my area (with my tivo HD and multi cable card)..
> 
> 
> When I called time warner to get my cable card paired with my moxi - they assured me that all of this should be resolved monday (03/22). We shall see when I get home. As it stands right now I don't get bravo on the moxi and never got bravo hd - even on my Time Warner 8300HD DVR...it is not even on the guide on the TW DVR. I will see if that changes
> 
> 
> (oddly enought the time warner dvr rebooted last night around 8:30 P.M.).



There may be some channels in the 200 range that are analog. That's because they are simply mirror channels of the analogs on the lower range channels.


I can tell you as of today in my area (Bainbridge) there has been no change in the channel line up. Quite honestly I don't have any idea what they are doing (TW). All I know is right now we have the correct channel data and our area, and I know from going to www.zap2it.com that the channel information I gave to Ben Music should be accurate for 99% of the channels.


----------



## groebuck

yeah my channel info went out of wack a week ago on my tivo. Tivo had be reset up but choose Eastlake Digital Rebuild and suddenly all of the channels were correct (I had the same issue woke up and all my hd's that were on 1000 in guide were back to the 400's - which is on demand) so everything was screwy. When I went to zap2it TIVO figured out they had the eastlake digital lineup - which has incorrect (HD in 400's) and eastlake DIGITAL REBUILD which was correct (HD in 1000's).


There have always been several channels they they show as in HD I never got. Moxi people said it was supposed to be digital simulcast - say 75 is the analog 205 is the digital and 1005 is the HD...but on the HD channels I never got (like Bravo, Travel, MTV)...I still got the digital equal (well the 200 channel number) but the picture was analog horrible







I hope it is all fixed...


I guess a lot of it had to do with I was Comcast before TWC gobbled us up.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Greater Cleveland, Ashtabula and Port Clinton viewers might see changes in their OCAP HD boxes tonight.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## hookbill

CK hope you nail this. I'd like to know what the Greater Cleveland area is.


----------



## nickdawg

oh crap!!


Kiss those properly working 8300HDC DVRs goodbye!!

















From here on out it's partial recordings and series recordings on standard definition channels, courtesy of the wonderful new Navigator.










I hope you nail it too, CK. About time those lucky SARA people are forced to endure the whole TWC treatment, Crapigator and all!


----------



## hookbill

Trying to watch TNA tonight on Spike HD. What a Fracken mess. Totally unwatchable. SDVsucks it doesn't matter if you watch ON A SA8300.or even on the mighty Tivo.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

[1:25]


My 8300HDC just got hit -- it rebooted and the front display is counting down in hexadecimal proceeded with an 'r'. Judging by the elapsed time and the descent of the code, there's likely 

[1:35]


Front display shows "Proc" (obviously short for processing...)


Rebooting again...


Counting down again (from r800)...


[1:45]


"Proc" again...


"UPG"


"boot"


"OCAP"...


New SA/Cisco splash screen


"APP"


Mystro splash...


[1:50]


"L-13", counting down...


[1:55]


Complete!


[2:15]


Box rebooted while flipping through the 1000's, many of which were 'unavailable'...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/18360865
> 
> 
> My 8300HDC just got hit -- it rebooted and the front display is counting down in some sort of code proceeded with an 'r'. Judging by the elapsed time and the descent of the code, there's likely
> 
> 
> It's downloading new code. You're seeing hexadecimal address ranges on the display.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18360887
> 
> 
> It's downloading new code. You're seeing hexadecimal address ranges on the display.



Gotcha -- looks like its on the second stage of the of the process...


----------



## tjs70

Looks like Cleveland-Lakeside got the update last night. In typical CWC fashion it didn't go so well. Box Says No Cablecard Failure to Initialize







Reboot







Mystro...


Still no update to the Tivo's


----------



## hookbill




tjs70 said:


> Looks like Cleveland-Lakeside got the update last night. In typical CWC fashion it didn't go so well. Box Says No Cablecard Failure to Initialize
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reboot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mystro...
> 
> 
> Great. Nice job TWC. Glad they started up North.
> 
> 
> This whole thing is a huge fiasco. nickdawg was right they should have left the darn things alone, having navigator isn't worth it.


----------



## tjs70

Reboot Worked







Now just finish the project. Tivo's? Please!!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/18361384
> 
> 
> Reboot Worked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now just finish the project. Tivo's? Please!!!



They said in the letter that I received that it wouldn't be uncommon for you to have SARA on one box and Navigator on the other. I think that if and when they put navigator for the TA it will be the last thing done.


How's your guide data on the TiVo? Is it accurate? If not we can fix that.


----------



## tjs70

Hook The Guide Data is accurate as of last week. However on my S3 Tivo I am intermittently losing channels. The Linear HD Channels are always there. However, the SDV Channels will go out intermittently. The weird thing is the channels are there sometimes and not others. Also it is only one of my four Tivo's the S3. The HD's are fine. Hmmm. Have tried numerous reboots. Solid Light on Tuning Adapter. Since it is the only one using single stream cards I am assuming it has something to do with the balancing on the account. Two calls to TWC in one day Yeah!


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/2536950
> 
> 
> Great idea Mike. Lets make this the offical thread.
> 
> 
> Ken H....can you help with this??? Please add "Offical" to the title.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jim



Isn't this supposed to be the Cleveland _Time Warner Cable_ thread? I would think a separate thread would be needed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18362426
> 
> 
> Isn't this supposed to be the Cleveland _Time Warner Cable_ thread? I would think a separate thread would be needed.



That post your quoting is from 08/11/03. I think its safe to say that the title will remain the same.


----------



## Sigwolf

Avon - got the update last night on the 8300HDC, realignment and Navigator. 8300HD got nothing, still on SARA with HD's in the 400's.


Not impressed with the change to Navigator at all. Lost the ability to change the day in the guide (unbelievable that they would leave that feature out), lost the 4th FF/RW speed, lost the ability to record shows with 'only this day/this time slot'. As an extra minor annoyance... turning off the box in SARA turned off all indicator lights and just left the clock on, now turning the box off leaves the resolution indicator of the last channel watched on with the clock... that's really needed.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/18363269
> 
> 
> Avon - got the update last night on the 8300HDC, realignment and Navigator. 8300HD got nothing, still on SARA with HD's in the 400's.
> 
> 
> Not impressed with the change to Navigator at all. Lost the ability to change the day in the guide (unbelievable that they would leave that feature out), lost the 4th FF/RW speed, lost the ability to record shows with 'only this day/this time slot'. As an extra minor annoyance... turning off the box in SARA turned off all indicator lights and just left the clock on, now turning the box off leaves the resolution indicator of the last channel watched on with the clock... that's really needed.



You change the day in teh guide by hitting the left hand side page up/down button. There are two buttons on the remote to each side of the select that is for page up/down. Its one buttone on each side that has a + and - like a rocker button. Using the left side one changes the date to a future date, each push changes it to the next day.


----------



## WilliamR

Some of my biggest complaints.


If I enter a channel that doesn't it exist it just flashes at me. Before if I entered one that didn't exist it would go to the closest channel to the number I entered. Looks like you now have to memorize every single channel number.


I don't see any place to set the default setting for recording shows. It defaults to save until space needed. Before I could set it to never delete. Now every time I record something I have to manually select never erase.


When scrolling through the guide, I don't see an option that takes me back to the default date/time.


I have yet to find a way to record a show manually (i.e. schedule a manual recording). Still need to look though, might be in there.


Even though you can go to the next date and the next by hitting the page up and down buttons while in the guide, I prefered the option to pick the date I wanted from the list. This is a minor inconvienance.


----------



## Sigwolf

The closest channel is changeable in the settings... under devices maybe, but I don't remember for sure. Looks like I'll need to update my Harmony settings, because the Day +/- didn't work, but it did when I used the TW remote. I still don't like losing the ability to quickly go to a specific day.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

Settings > Display > Nearest Tune


I have the 880, and while I never really used DayDown and DayUp on anything but the AT8560, they're definitely working on my Harmony as of this post.


Not sure if this used to be the case with SARA, but when playing back a recorded program, you can hold down the FWD or REW button and it will seek through the program in 25% increments. This seems to work with Live TV as well, but you obviously cannot seek into the future. Not quite the missing 4th FF/RW, but kinda' nice none the less.


----------



## tjs70

Let the games continue.


8300HDC Updates last night. First update fails. Unplug second update completes. All is well with the world...


Except when watching recorded programs the info line reads the information of the live show not the recorded show. So It says the live show with a messed up time indication.


Really TWC.


Also my Tivo Series 3 still is not able to receive SDV yet my HD's are.This just started yesterday. No flashing lights and all looks good in the diagnostic screens. Have been re hit, rebooted and re-set up. Nothing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/18365192
> 
> 
> Let the games continue.
> 
> 
> 8300HDC Updates last night. First update fails. Unplug second update completes. All is well with the world...
> 
> 
> Except when watching recorded programs the info line reads the information of the live show not the recorded show. So It says the live show with a messed up time indication.
> 
> 
> Really TWC.
> 
> 
> Also my Tivo Series 3 still is not able to receive SDV yet my HD's are.This just started yesterday. No flashing lights and all looks good in the diagnostic screens. Have been re hit, rebooted and re-set up. Nothing.




Are you looking at the bottom of the TiVo Diagnostic screen. 3 things need to be there. Tuner Adapter: Operational Last Status: Ready Channel list received: Yes.


Have you tried removing the USB connector from behind either the TiVo or the TA and reconnecting? Have you tried power cycling the TA?


You've probably done all that but I'm just double checking. It is possible to have a steady green light and not have a connection but you would see that the Tuner Adapter would probably say Not Avaialable and Last Status would be something like None.


My TA on my main TiVo HD had a flashing green light this morning. It was 8 flashes and a pause but it was not pausing on the 8th flash. It paused with no light on. And the status on my Tuner Adater said Channel List: Received. Weird. Anyway a call to customer service and it sounded like I was talking to a guy in China who's name was Carlos. Hilarious. Then he transferred me to real customer service and I told the CSR my TA was down and needed an addressable hit. She had that puppy up and running in no time.


Of course then she tried to sell me stuff. I hate that TWC makes their CSR's do that. I told her I'd purchase MLB Extra Innings and she didn't know what I was talking about lol. 2 weeks before the season starts.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/18364871
> 
> 
> Settings > Display > Nearest Tune



Take note that Nearest Tune-The ability for TWC Navigator to tune to the next available upward channel following an incorrect channel entry is ONLY offered on HDC and Samsung boxes. (It can be turned on/off. I believe the default setting is "Off.")


MDN (Non-C boxes) do not yet have this Navigator feature, but it is coming in a future update.


Jack


----------



## Rbuchina

Came home to find my 8300 and 4250 have no HD channels at all. And we still do not have the last batch of HDs Bravo, Comedy...










Someone at TWC probably thinks this is progress.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18365761
> 
> 
> Came home to find my 8300 and 4250 have no HD channels at all. And we still do not have the last batch of HDs Bravo, Comedy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone at TWC probably thinks this is progress.
> 
> 
> Ray



Ray, when I had to call in for my Tuner Adapter there was a pre recording saying they were having problems in the Mentor area and engineers were working on it. But that was at like 10:30 this morning.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/18363269
> 
> 
> Avon - got the update last night on the 8300HDC, realignment and Navigator. 8300HD got nothing, still on SARA with HD's in the 400's.
> 
> 
> Not impressed with the change to Navigator at all. Lost the ability to change the day in the guide (unbelievable that they would leave that feature out), lost the 4th FF/RW speed, lost the ability to record shows with 'only this day/this time slot'. As an extra minor annoyance... turning off the box in SARA turned off all indicator lights and just left the clock on, now turning the box off leaves the resolution indicator of the last channel watched on with the clock... that's really needed.



There's actually two ways you can advance the days in the TWC Navigator Guide:


1.) Press Guide


2.) Press the number indicating the number of days you want to jump ahead, FOLLOWED by the right-arrow key. i.e (To jump 3 days ahead, Press Guide, than press 3, than press the right-arrow key.) You can advance the guide 1-7 days.


OR


2.) b. If your remote has a Days button:


1.) Press Guide


2.) Press the + key or forward advance key under or on the Days button to go one day ahead. You can go up to 7 days ahead. If the box has recently rebooted or is a fresh install, you may only be able to go 2 days ahead. Full head-end guide refresh rates can take anywhere from 12-24 hours under these conditions for all 7 days to load in memory.


3.) Use the (minus) - Key on or under the Days button to go back a day after advancing. Want to go directly to a channel after you have gone ahead in the guide?


3.) a. Press the Days - button. You will go back several hours from the current time. Note that shows in the immediate grid pain to the right are grayed out.


3.) b. Press the Select Key on any grayed out show in the grid from Step 3.a This takes you directly to the channel. "View this Channel Now." doing step 3.) b. (Note that this step assumes you have a "Days" button on your remote.)


Jack


Hope this helps!


----------



## pbarach

Title of this post says it all. I want everything to be sent to my TV over HDMI at 1800i, but the cable box is switching resolutions whenever I change channels. Also, the "setup wizard" that you could access by holding INFO and GUIDE on the cable box is no longer available.


----------



## oachalon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18365790
> 
> 
> Ray, when I had to call in for my Tuner Adapter there was a pre recording saying they were having problems in the Mentor area and engineers were working on it. But that was at like 10:30 this morning.



Apparently the engineers suck ass, because its 8:05 and still no HD channels. I am an engineer and if it took me this long to fix something i would be fired.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18365837
> 
> 
> Title of this post says it all. I want everything to be sent to my TV over HDMI at 1800i, but the cable box is switching resolutions whenever I change channels. Also, the "setup wizard" that you could access by holding INFO and GUIDE on the cable box is no longer available.



You have to manually disable all settings that are not 1080i in the settings menu.


Settings>Display>Output Resolution


----------



## awyeah

So far, here on the Macedonia headend, things seem to be going smoothly. My 4250HDC boxes have been working fine with Navigator (well, Navigator sucks, so they're working as well as you'd expect).


The TiVo is back to having all the HD channels in the 400s still... so I'm just waiting for them to move the channels for the TiVos to the 1000s.


----------



## orange5814

Well, I am surely not a fan of this Navigator thing, but here in Twinsburg things seem to be working well... I did have to reschedule all of my recordings, but it kept my previously recorded shows.


Does anyone know if I can get one of the new Samsung boxes now, or if I even want to? I need to get a second DVR for the kids room.


----------



## awyeah

orange: If you find out about the Samsung boxes, please post it here. I'd be interested to know if we can get them. Hopefully they perform a little better than the SAs.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/18366741
> 
> 
> Well, I am surely not a fan of this Navigator thing, but here in Twinsburg things seem to be working well... I did have to reschedule all of my recordings, but it kept my previously recorded shows.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if I can get one of the new Samsung boxes now, or if I even want to? I need to get a second DVR for the kids room.



You'd be visiting the Macedonia office. My last trip they handed me an SA8000! I demanded a SA 8300. They had one available and it only has 3 legs.


I wouldn't count on getting a Samsung from them.


----------



## orange5814

I work up in Highland Heights, I may try to stop at the Euclid Ave office in Wickliffe tomorrow. I will let you guys know what I find.


----------



## awyeah

Only issue with that - you may or may not be able to get boxes that will work on the Macedonia system from that office.


----------



## WilliamR

One nice feature is now when I fast forward and I go into the show, when I hit play it goes back and starts almost right when the show came back from commercial. Pretty slick.


----------



## awyeah

That's a nice feature. They finally caught up with TiVo who's had that feature since the late 90s


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18366208
> 
> 
> You have to manually disable all settings that are not 1080i in the settings menu.
> 
> 
> Settings>Display>Output Resolution



Thanks. And I didn't realize that the reprogram had reset my audio to HDMI instead of Dolby Digital and changed the volume range from Wide to Narrow. Now it's all back to where it was.


----------



## amtrak23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18367067
> 
> 
> That's a nice feature. They finally caught up with TiVo who's had that feature since the late 90s




Yea, that's real nice...still doesn't make up for all of the other BS. History channel was unwatchable earlier. I can't believe how sluggish Crapigator is.


Now Planet Green is getting all choppy. WTF is wrong with this company?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orange5814* /forum/post/18366741
> 
> 
> Well, I am surely not a fan of this Navigator thing, but here in Twinsburg things seem to be working well... I did have to reschedule all of my recordings, but it kept my previously recorded shows.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if I can get one of the new Samsung boxes now, or if I even want to? I need to get a second DVR for the kids room.



The Samsung boxes have their own issues. Last I've read, they're experiencing problems similar to the SA boxes about two years ago(UI crash, partial/missed recording).


As long as you have a HDC box, Navigator should be fine. Try to get a 8300HDC from TWC. Don't let them give you a 8300HD(no C) Or even worse an 8000HD (shudders). MDN (8300HD, 8000HD) is very slow and sluggish compared to ODN(8300HDC, 4250HDC).


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18367473
> 
> 
> Yea, that's real nice...still doesn't make up for all of the other BS. History channel was unwatchable earlier. I can't believe how sluggish Crapigator is.
> 
> 
> Now Planet Green is getting all choppy. WTF is wrong with this company?



I had the same trouble with the History HD channel, blocking and freezing.


----------



## grantmc

Like Sigwolf, I live in Avon and got the update last night. I wanted to find out if anyone else was experiencing loss of audio for a couple of seconds every few minutes? We were watching NBC and it was annoying as hell! Then I watched Lost, and same problem there, but instead of just audio loss, there was picture and audio loss for about a second - every few minutes! Please don't tell me that I am alone here 


Is there any setting that could fix that? Or is it just teething problems? (I have the 8300HDC Box)


----------



## groebuck

happened to me yesterday as well, caught hell from the otherhalf.


The view on HD stutters and sound hops-


then American Idol - same thing, Lost Same thing...all my HD was stuttering, blocky and unwatchable.


I got on the IM chat support with them and they rebooted my 8300HD (cuz apparently me saying I tried that was not enough).


This is in Eastlake Ohio


Oh and the guide issue on TIVOS where you see the HD's in the 400's If you go through the guided set up and reselect your area as digital rebuild you will get the hd back on the 1000 channels.


----------



## hookbill

There were problems all over the northern side of the area yesterday. Probably coming out of the headend I would imagine. Rebooting your machine was a desperate attempt to try and get you out of their hair.


So on the selections you have available you see the digital rebuild on the TiVo huh? That's what I was hoping they would do. We are still in the 400's but I think the reason we are still on the old guide is they are having issues getting the SA 8300 to accept Navigator. Maybe. I don't know, so long as my guides are right I don't care if they ever change the channels.


I'm still p.o.'d about how bad SPIKE was on Monday night. Constant break ups, unwatchable picture. Totally unwatchable, even for wrestling. There would be 30 seconds of a beautiful picture followed by a minutes worth of unwatchable pixelation and sound choppiness.


And TW says "You won't have to do anything during this change." Maybe, but you sure as hell notice it.


----------



## Goldenager62

I been having all the problems the previous posters have stated. I have had only one good day in the last two months and was on March 13. Every day there have been problems with different HD channels, sometimes just for short period and sometimes for a few days. Not that I watch it, but one of the home shopping HD channels has been screwed for days.


----------



## speedyd718

i concur with the above sentiment. i also haven't received an update to my SA8300HD. i wonder should i take the box in to the customer center in cleve. hts. (severance) and get a 8300HDC box?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/18369690
> 
> 
> i concur with the above sentiment. i also haven't received an update to my SA8300HD. i wonder should i take the box in to the customer center in cleve. hts. (severance) and get a 8300HDC box?



It has nothing to do with the box.


----------



## groebuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18369322
> 
> 
> There were problems all over the northern side of the area yesterday. Probably coming out of the headend I would imagine. Rebooting your machine was a desperate attempt to try and get you out of their hair.
> 
> 
> So on the selections you have available you see the digital rebuild on the TiVo huh? That's what I was hoping they would do. We are still in the 400's but I think the reason we are still on the old guide is they are having issues getting the SA 8300 to accept Navigator. Maybe. I don't know, so long as my guides are right I don't care if they ever change the channels.
> 
> 
> I'm still p.o.'d about how bad SPIKE was on Monday night. Constant break ups, unwatchable picture. Totally unwatchable, even for wrestling. There would be 30 seconds of a beautiful picture followed by a minutes worth of unwatchable pixelation and sound choppiness.
> 
> 
> And TW says "You won't have to do anything during this change." Maybe, but you sure as hell notice it.




yes tivo actually helped me out with this via their im, Tivo guide is zap2it and you go the web site and I can see the selections eastlake dgiital and eastlake digital rebuild - when the channels went to 1000's I had one day of missed series recordings but everything automagically changed to the right channels and then a week later my guide said 400's were hd when they were not. Tivo figured out that the digital rebuild was the correct listing and showed me how to go to zap2it and see for myself. Then ran the guided set up but changed my local and set the guide to digital rebuild - waited the dl and boom everything was good again.


I am really really hoping they get the digital channel stuff fixed or get me my HD channels I never got (bravo, travel, comedy...etc). I really really want to keep my moxi.


----------



## nickdawg

SPIKE TV worked fine for me...

...on the analog channel!!































I already waved the white flag on this bullsh** lineup after I kept getting VOD bull crap when I tried to put on the Discovery Channel. And then when I tried the "New numbers" I again keep getting Dinsey channel crap because this stupid "10xx" or "11xx" combined with the slow ass Navigator dumps me somewhere in the 100s.










It's just TV, I don't give a crap. Watching channel "5" is just fine. One button is easier than four and I don't keep getting channel "105"


----------



## djzeitler

My 8300HDC just got updated, everything is working fine except the sound. The sound is now very monotoned with low volume. I really have to turn up the volume to hear anything clearly.


I run the sound through a Bose 321 system with TV speakers off with all hook-ups through HDMI.


Does anybody else have this problem?


----------



## groebuck

have not noticed a sound issue other than the sound has always seemed lower on hd channels ..


----------



## djzeitler

Yeah, that's always been true. But it's really low now.


----------



## WilliamR

I always have break ups and freezing of the picture for a split second or two. I have had a technician out 4 times and they always replace my box and it always still ends up doing. I have given up calling them as they don't do anything about it. I saw the last time I called (last week) they had a front end message up saying they were aware of the issue and working to resolve it.


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18369698
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with the box.



well i was asking because i keep seeing that the HD (non-c) boxes are of the older variety. is it worth switching for the newer style? not because its related to the current issues.


----------



## PhilO

Just got Navigator on my SA8300HDC, and a huge shock when I discovered on AVS that my problems getting my 1TB WD DVR Expander to work may involve waiting for some future release of Navigator 


Should I try to find and swap in an older model converter? I've gotten quite used to having plenty of recording space.


----------



## Red_Rabbit

I must be *knock on wood* the only person who hasn't had a single problem with the update. I actually like the new navigator and for me, on the 8300hdc it runs very smoothly. My only complaints are that i had to redo all my recordings and there is no sleep timer, ie turn off every night at this time, because there are nights i fall asleep watching tv and i like it to just shut off without having to worry about the sleep timer.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

Recently, from the legal notices page :


"From March 25-27, 2010, Showtime On Demand will be available free to all digital customers on Channel 640. HD customers can also receive Showtime HD on Demand on Channel 1640. The preview may contain TV-13, TV-14, TV-MA or R-rated programming."


So, the page was last updated on the 22nd, and there's absolutely no mention of this listed anymore. WTF?!?


----------



## nickdawg

Who cares about that? I think the bigger news here is this:



> Quote:
> On or after April 26, 2010, WVPX/ION HD will be added to Standard HD.



Since when did WVPX have a HD channel? Just checking on my DTV converter, 23-1 is still SDTV only. I keep an eye on OMW as well as the OTA topic here, didn't hear anything about this.


And it's now almost 1am, all the Sowtime channels and VOD still say "Call Customer Service".


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18374341
> 
> 
> And it's now almost 1am, all the Sowtime channels and VOD still say "Call Customer Service".



Customer service said it will be active sometime between 3 and 6 AM. With all the issues we've been enduring, an extension would be appreciated.


----------



## groebuck

when I got home last night my 8300hd was showing all the hd channels I was missing before. I got excited and re-hooked up my moxi dvr and sdv..except same problem missing HD channels and blinking sdv. Well after about 5 mins the sdv went solid and the hd channels said call provider. Moxi tech told me my sdv needed a HIT from twc. So I called them to tell them that - I got transferred twice, explained everything the same and got to the national desk where the woman told me "there is an outage in your area sir" I told her my TWC box is getting all the channnels I just need a hit to the SDV. She told me there was nothing she could do..there was an outage in my area....sigh.


----------



## gavram

I was excited to move from Sara to Navigator so that I'd have a way to search for shows by name, as I really miss this feature from my Tivo Series 1. I received the update the other night and that function works well enough but of the six shows I recorded one recorded only the first 4 minutes and the other recorded only the last 10 mins.


I had heard that this was an issue for other Navigator users but it doesn't really hit home until it happens to your box!! Come on TWC...seriously?? This is your upgrade??


I really want to move back to Tivo but $500 for the Tivo Premier ($299 + lifetime service) + cablecard fees seems a little steep.


----------



## amtrak23

Ok, come home to watch games and get sound but no picture (SA 8300HDC). Just a plain gray screen. Certain guide stuff comes up but no actual channels. I swapped cables, rebooted, etc., still the same. Box in other (SA 4250HDC) room works fine. Swap that out in living room and all is fine? Did the 8300 die?


----------



## smoti17

Been out of town for most of this week Slightly surprised to find they haven't broken anything else and my season passes recorded okay in my absence. Totally unsurprised to find neither line-up nor box upgrades.


----------



## nickdawg

Cool, I'm gonna break up this TWC talk temporarily with a kinda OT.


I was watching "19 Action News" tonight, not by choice, but because for some reason Craig Ferguson is not right now, the news is? I haven't watched this channel in a long time, and I'm glad I don't. They've only gotten worse over time. You owe it to yourself to tune in and see their new "reporter" on The Buzz. He's a dumb mannequin who looks like a model. It's really a new low, even for 19. Or I should say channel 4, to keep this TWC related.










Anwyay, back to the TWC talk as I wait for Craig...


----------



## Norm78

Any updates on the alleged Showtime free preview? I checked both HD and the regular signal and still no dice. What gives?


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norm78* /forum/post/18381546
> 
> 
> Any updates on the alleged Showtime free preview? I checked both HD and the regular signal and still no dice. What gives?



It's Showtime On Demand 1640 or 640 in my area.


----------



## groebuck

So much for hope - after getting my missing hd channels for one day (yippie) I got a message last night that says they are "Unavailable at this time" and missed all my recordings for the night on that channel. thanks TWC.


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18381610
> 
> 
> It's Showtime On Demand 1640 or 640 in my area.



Mine shows as working, but when you go to play a movie, it says it's "unavailable at this time"... just like most all of the other HD channels... just like most of the whole god damn NE Ohio region.

This sh!t it starting to get to my boiling point.


----------



## Norm78




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/18381903
> 
> 
> Mine shows as working, but when you go to play a movie, it says it's "unavailable at this time"... just like most all of the other HD channels... just like most of the whole god damn NE Ohio region.
> 
> This sh!t it starting to get to my boiling point.



Cripes! So it's only Showtime On Demand, not the standard Showtime channel? I was under the impression all the Showtime programming across all of their channels were on preview this weekend. Bummer.


----------



## nickdawg

The only channel I am getting for the Showtime preview is 640, the VOD channel. All the linear channels are not turned on.


I can't complain. All I really wanted anyway was the VOD channel so I could watch Dexter, other series and movies I choose. Besides the Showtime channels beyond the one HD channel suck anyway. Showtime clutters the screen with their bug and they do not present programming in 4:3, as HBO does.


----------



## Satch Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djzeitler* /forum/post/18370090
> 
> 
> My 8300HDC just got updated, everything is working fine except the sound. The sound is now very monotoned with low volume. I really have to turn up the volume to hear anything clearly.
> 
> 
> I run the sound through a Bose 321 system with TV speakers off with all hook-ups through HDMI.
> 
> 
> Does anybody else have this problem?



On Sound issues:


First, Turn up the volume using the +/- buttons on your box as far as it will go. Than go under Settings and Audio to make sure that the settings match those for your sound system. Under Audio Settings make sure you have the proper audio selected. HDMI? Dolby Digital? There should be an Audio Range in Audio Settings with Options for Narrow, Wide or Normal.


After turning up the volume on your box and making sure your Audio Output is correct, you might want to experiment with the Normal, Wide, or Narrow settings for audio to see what works.


When you have your cable box settings adjusted, you can than fine-tune your audio equipment to it if necessary.


Let us know how that turns out. You will definitely want to have your box volume up as high as it will go.


Jack


----------



## petem23

I recently made the switch from a component hookup to HDMI. Now when I change channels with different resolutions the tv(2010 Samsung PN50C550 plasma) looses sync or something and zooms in and to the right. My fix is to turn to a different input then back to the cable box input to re-acquire the signal and everything is fine. As you can imagine this is a big pain. Has anyone had this problem before? I guess a fix would be to lock the output resolution to 1080i, but I'd rather let my tv handle the scaling. I have tried different cables with the same result.


So I tried to reboot my box(SA8300HD) to see if that would do anything and it won't fire back up. It has been plugged in for over 2 hours and the front panel is blank except for the mail light lights up once a minute for 5 seconds. I can hear it running. Is it updating to the new software? How long does it usually take? I was still running the same old guide with HD in the 400's prior to this. I don't know what firmware Sara or Navigator or whatever I had. How do I find this out? What should I do? Let it be? Push the power button and try to turn it on?


Please Help!!!! OSU game is on in an hour!!!!!!


----------



## amtrak23

How do I pull the recorded content off the 8300 to my pc?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

advice needed.


i currently have DirecTV and am considering the switch to TWC for financial reasons. I already have TWC for cable internet and am very happy with the service. For 55 more per month, I can add the equivalent to what I am getting from DirecTV. Currently DirecTV is 68 per month, but I have some discounts that are rolling off as my contract expires next month.


So before I want to threaten DirecTV with cancellation to get a better rate, I'd like to know what I am getting myself into with TWC. It seems like there is a lot of complaining going on in this thread, BUT, thats what these threads are for. We wouldn't have forums if everything always worked perfectly.


Benefits that I see with Time Warner:


1. Price - Most Likely

2. TV hookups without boxes required

3. Doesn't use DirecTV's absolutely terrible STB, which is unresponsive, slow, and downright poorly designed.

4. Equipment lease fees are non existent.

5. Slightly better channel lineup

6. No contract


What are some of the absolute terrible aspects to TWC? Also, does anyone know where I can find a QAM channel lineup for Avon? Im curious how much HD I can get for my TVs that are not on the STB.


Thanks


----------



## Rbuchina

Progress in Mentor!

I was south on business Wednesday through Friday evening and the HDs in the Mentor area were down the whole time according to my wife. The HDs went down Tuedsay. When I returned Friday evening around 7:30pm they were still out. After I dropped the rental car off and returned home the HDs were back plus I was surprised to see the latest batch of HDs up and running finally. My G4HD channel would always break up and was essentially unwatchable on the 8300. Its fine now on both the 8300 and 4250 boxes. Its about time TWC.


On a side note I would have been back 2 1/2 hours earlier Friday but I was behind the tragic accident on I-65 in Kentucky. After sitting in park on the road for 10 minutes I called my wife to search the internet and find out what was going on. There was already plenty of info online about the accident and detour. I eventually made a U-turn and backtracked a couple exits and plotted a course through the back roads. I'm glad I had my GPS and Rand-McNally with me. My prayers go out to the families of all involved with the tragedy.


Ray


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18387707
> 
> 
> advice needed.
> 
> 
> i currently have DirecTV and am considering the switch to TWC for financial reasons. I already have TWC for cable internet and am very happy with the service. For 55 more per month, I can add the equivalent to what I am getting from DirecTV. Currently DirecTV is 68 per month, but I have some discounts that are rolling off as my contract expires next month.
> 
> 
> So before I want to threaten DirecTV with cancellation to get a better rate, I'd like to know what I am getting myself into with TWC. It seems like there is a lot of complaining going on in this thread, BUT, thats what these threads are for. We wouldn't have forums if everything always worked perfectly.
> 
> 
> Benefits that I see with Time Warner:
> 
> 
> 1. Price - Most Likely
> 
> 2. TV hookups without boxes required
> 
> 3. Doesn't use DirecTV's absolutely terrible STB, which is unresponsive, slow, and downright poorly designed.
> 
> 4. Equipment lease fees are non existent.
> 
> 5. Slightly better channel lineup
> 
> 6. No contract
> 
> 
> What are some of the absolute terrible aspects to TWC? Also, does anyone know where I can find a QAM channel lineup for Avon? Im curious how much HD I can get for my TVs that are not on the STB.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I am only going to discuss HD channels, because that takes in about 99% of my viewing. there has only been a handful of days in the last few months that I have not had either the channel not coming in at all or the channel freezing.

Without a cable box there are some SD analog channels and HD and SD OTA channels. Not much to choose from.

I do not think you will see any improvement with Time Warner Equipment over what you have now.

The worst thing is their customer service. They are not well trained and they only give two choses, reboot the cable box or sent a truck out in a day or two to look at the problem, neither seldom work. Most of the problems come from the head end.

If I sound discussed with Time Warner, you are correct.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18387831
> 
> 
> If I sound discussed with Time Warner, you are correct.



whats keeping you with Time Warner instead of switching to DirecTV or Dish?


----------



## Vchat20

I would honestly think about Dish if I were you and forget about TWC altogether since they still seem to be having tons of showstopping issues lately with this SDV garbage.


I switched to Dish back in December and not only did my total combined bill drop from ~$180 with TWC to around ~$120 with Dish/Centurylink, but I get the same programming as I did before with a handful of extra channels that TWC will never get, 2 receivers for a total of 4 attached TV's with full access to every channel on the sats, AND HBO/Showtime (this is without promotional pricing. Ours dropped in february for these channels. Mind we never had them with TWC). Without the movie channels our bill would drop to ~$100/mo. But in the process I also went from having TWC's 'lite' internet package running 768/128 to Centurylink's 'up to 10/1' package (right now I am only pushing 6/512 but once they get the backbones upgraded here and swap line cards for ADSL2/ADSL2+ I should easily be able to hit a full 10/1). Phone is the same in both cases though. Unlimited Local/LD.


DirecTV, at least in my research before we switched, seems to be just as bad as TWC in the cost department. Maybe a slight bit easier on the wallet.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18388132
> 
> 
> whats keeping you with Time Warner instead of switching to DirecTV or Dish?



No line of sight. I would switch to Directv or Dish in a heartbeat if I could.


----------



## groebuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18387707
> 
> 
> advice needed.
> 
> 
> i currently have DirecTV and am considering the switch to TWC for financial reasons. I already have TWC for cable internet and am very happy with the service. For 55 more per month, I can add the equivalent to what I am getting from DirecTV. Currently DirecTV is 68 per month, but I have some discounts that are rolling off as my contract expires next month.
> 
> 
> So before I want to threaten DirecTV with cancellation to get a better rate, I'd like to know what I am getting myself into with TWC. It seems like there is a lot of complaining going on in this thread, BUT, thats what these threads are for. We wouldn't have forums if everything always worked perfectly.
> 
> 
> Benefits that I see with Time Warner:
> 
> 
> 1. Price - Most Likely
> 
> 2. TV hookups without boxes required
> 
> 3. Doesn't use DirecTV's absolutely terrible STB, which is unresponsive, slow, and downright poorly designed.
> 
> 4. Equipment lease fees are non existent.
> 
> 5. Slightly better channel lineup
> 
> 6. No contract
> 
> 
> What are some of the absolute terrible aspects to TWC? Also, does anyone know where I can find a QAM channel lineup for Avon? Im curious how much HD I can get for my TVs that are not on the STB.
> 
> 
> Thanks



if you want the best prices from twc you actually do need to sign a contract - if you want the most of HD you do need equipment and you have to pay a rental (which sucks when i lived in NC it was 4.95 for a dvr here in Cleveland it is 9.95).


if you want an idea of the clear qam you can go to silicondust's web site (they make the hd hme run) put in your zip and they will show you with pics what comes in clear.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18388336
> 
> 
> No line of sight. I would switch to Directv or Dish in a heartbeat if I could.



Which exact direction are you looking? Cause at least with Dish they have separate sat clusters on both the east and west coast and you could point to either one depending on whether you have LOS or not. In my case I couldn't see the eastern arc sats through trees but the western arc I had a good shot.


Check out www.dishpointer.com and look at sats 77W Echostar 4,8 and 119W Echostar 7 and get a general idea of what your LOS is there.


I don't know how DirecTV has their sats set up though.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amtrak23* /forum/post/18385192
> 
> 
> How do I pull the recorded content off the 8300 to my pc?



You don't. You'd need a TiVo for that.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18388891
> 
> 
> You don't. You'd need a TiVo for that.



It's possible if the 8300hd has a firewire port on the back, but that is a huge hassle and not worth it imho. I'm very technically inclined but that was a major pain for me. It's ok for one show here and there as long as TWC doesn't have the channel copy protected, but anything more I'd give up on. Just get a standalone dvd recorder and go that route (no HD though).


If you don't mind some reading you can get a feel for the messy process here and the issues involved: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18387707
> 
> 
> 3. Doesn't use DirecTV's absolutely terrible STB, which is unresponsive, slow, and downright poorly designed.
> 
> 4. Equipment lease fees are non existent.
> 
> 5. Slightly better channel lineup



I just had to weigh in here.










3. TWC's STB is in no way better. Unresponsive, slow and poorly designed are three words that describe Navigator perfectly. And the DVR often results in partial recordings.


4. Not true. If equipment lease fees are nonexistant, why do I have two $7.65 charges on my cable bill?







TWC *does* make you pay for equipment lease.


5. The channel lineup is terrible. We're talking four digit channel numbers here, compared to D* which puts the HD channels next to the SD channels. The four digit channel number thing is a pain in the ass, especially when paired with the slow Navigator interface. Enough of a pain that it drove me back to using the analog channels again.


----------



## toby10

I presume when he says "no STB lease fees" he means getting basic cable (no STB) and using QAM for local HD's.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/18389940
> 
> 
> ...and using QAM for local HD's.



And depending on his area he may not be getting much. For most areas TWC has control over here in NE Ohio you are lucky to even get the locals as open QAMs. I wouldn't expect any more than that.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/18389940
> 
> 
> I presume when he says "no STB lease fees" he means getting basic cable (no STB) and using QAM for local HD's.



right depending on number of boxes, there are fees up front.


short of it is, time warner is still cheaper.


but it sounds like if people truly had an option, they wouldnt go with TWC. i'll focus my decision on Dish Network or seeing what DirecTV can do on price.


----------



## nickdawg

TWC is *not* cheaper, outside the promotional packages to get you into their company. I pay over $100, just for two boxes, one premium service, DVR, HDTV tier and nothing above the Digital Basic tier. That's hardly "cheaper"







.


I'd suggest talking to D* if you currently have them. Either eliminate unnecessary stuff(I'm thinking about dumping the extra box and HDTV tier) or complain about your price. If you've been a customer with them for awhile, they might be willing to negotiate. I've never tried it, but I've heard of it happening.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18390333
> 
> 
> TWC is *not* cheaper, outside the promotional packages to get you into their company. I pay over $100, just for two boxes, one premium service, DVR, HDTV tier and nothing above the Digital Basic tier. That's hardly "cheaper"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> I'd suggest talking to D* if you currently have them. Either eliminate unnecessary stuff(I'm thinking about dumping the extra box and HDTV tier) or complain about your price. If you've been a customer with them for awhile, they might be willing to negotiate. I've never tried it, but I've heard of it happening.



i currently have 15 mbps internet at 60 a month, was quoted a price of 117.97 for internet and the tv service i'd want from twc.


thats 58 a month extra for tv.


my directv bill is currently 69 a month and will be 79 next month and in the future. dish network looks to be 60.99 per month for the first year, 75.99 for the 2nd year of the 2 year contract. but that doesnt include the ohio satellite tax of 3-4 bucks a month as well.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18389950
> 
> 
> And depending on his area he may not be getting much. For most areas TWC has control over here in NE Ohio you are lucky to even get the locals as open QAMs. I wouldn't expect any more than that.



I'm currently without TWC boxes. My HD set gets all the local HD stations via QAM, and TWC is passing their channel numbers through...well, most of 'em.


3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are coming through at their over-air channel numbers/.1, .2, etc. Of course, that means you have to go to 19.1/2 instead of 4, 25.1/2/3 instead of 2, and 43.1 instead of 6. (I'm on the former Adelphia Cuyahoga Valley system. The analog/SD version of the channels is still there at 4/2/6.)


43.2 is around, but not properly PSIPed like 43.1. 55 is there, but I believe it resides at 78.1, right next to 49 (Western Reserve PBS) and its subchannels (78.2-78.5, if I remember right, the HD set is downstairs...I can't remember where THIS TV shows up, somewhere in the 100-plus range I think).


The ex-Adelphia system doesn't carry 49.1-2-3-4 on the boxes, just the analog/SD 9. But they show up on QAM just fine...


I get very little else on clear QAM. The Speed Channel and VH1 Classic show up for some reason. I get the Cleveland city system access channels, a low-end shopping channel and that's about it outside the locals.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18390369
> 
> 
> my directv bill is currently 69 a month and will be 79 next month and in the future.



Damn, that's a fantastic price. Maybe it's time for me to purge my bad memories of D* and reconsider them.


Both of those prices are better than what I have with TWC. Plus I would no longer be constantly annoyed by them bothering me to buy internet service(as TWC does).










PS: I finally found my favorite image:


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18391331
> 
> 
> Damn, that's a fantastic price. Maybe it's time for me to purge my bad memories of D* and reconsider them.
> 
> 
> Both of those prices are better than what I have with TWC. Plus I would no longer be constantly annoyed by them bothering me to buy internet service(as TWC does).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I finally found my favorite image:




Well, you probably wont like the fact that I've had it as low as 44 dollars before










That was a combo of another 10 dollar discount and the new customer discount that was going on at the time. While DirecTV has absolutely terrible customer service, if you push hard enough you can get some pretty solid discounts.


Check here for discount info: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthr...uid=0&t=140292


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18391331
> 
> 
> Damn, that's a fantastic price. Maybe it's time for me to purge my bad memories of D* and reconsider them.
> 
> 
> Both of those prices are better than what I have with TWC. Plus I would no longer be constantly annoyed by them bothering me to buy internet service(as TWC does).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I finally found my favorite image:



I've always liked that image. I should steal it and put it in my signature too.


----------



## Rbuchina

All my HDs have been rock solid on both my 8300 and 4250 boxes since Friday evening but this morning I have 1003 local NBC with severe freeze up problems on the 8300 box. The OTA reception is rock solid in spite of the rain though. This is the kind of unwatchable problem I've had with G4HD the last few months before the HDs were returned with added channels Friday evening. I'm going to swap out the 8300 box next week.


Ray


----------



## hookbill

I didn't think it was the box but I just found out that TiVo is pushing an update to deal with pixelation issues so I suppose it can be the box.


Really doesn't surprise me, when I had the SA 8300 pre TiVo I thought warped and pixelated pictures were just the way the technology worked.


----------



## hdtvfan2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18391331
> 
> 
> Damn, that's a fantastic price. Maybe it's time for me to purge my bad memories of D* and reconsider them.
> 
> 
> Both of those prices are better than what I have with TWC. Plus I would no longer be constantly annoyed by them bothering me to buy internet service(as TWC does).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I finally found my favorite image:



Not to mention that Directv is going to be releasing the new HR24 which is much faster than the current HR20/21/22/23 units. It's also energystar compliant.


----------



## hdtvfan2005

D* is going to turning on D12 which should give you a ton of HD channels.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18391774
> 
> 
> I've always liked that image. I should steal it and put it in my signature too.



Go ahead, I don't care if you use it. I hope it spreads!!










So, did anyone watch the Sowtime preview this weekend?


I DIDN'T! I just looked at it on Friday, the only channel they gave us was the VOD channel on 640. Everything else wasn't in the preview. Of course I had other things to do all weekend and when I did watch TV, something else was on. Just helped me prove why I don't subscribe to Sowtime in the first place. All the mobies on the list were nothing special. They're not wasting the money on the subscription. HBO is far better.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18391762
> 
> 
> Well, you probably wont like the fact that I've had it as low as 44 dollars before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was a combo of another 10 dollar discount and the new customer discount that was going on at the time. While DirecTV has absolutely terrible customer service, if you push hard enough you can get some pretty solid discounts.
> 
> 
> Check here for discount info: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthr...uid=0&t=140292



Not as terrible as TWC customer DISservice. A few years back I would agree with that, that was one of the things I didn't like about them. But the way TWC service is now, forget about it. No other company in the world has service as bad as TWC. If they bother answering the phine, you end up talking to someone who is clueless or lies about HDTV.


LOL, in the heat of the SDV problems last year when OMW had a huge report about it, I asked if there were any other calls about this. She said no!










And at the end of that call they tried to get me to buy their f%&*%&^*%&* Damn internet service. Just once when I'm pissed off enough, I'm gonna tell them off for that.


----------



## groebuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/18390369
> 
> 
> i currently have 15 mbps internet at 60 a month, was quoted a price of 117.97 for internet and the tv service i'd want from twc.
> 
> 
> thats 58 a month extra for tv.
> 
> 
> my directv bill is currently 69 a month and will be 79 next month and in the future. dish network looks to be 60.99 per month for the first year, 75.99 for the 2nd year of the 2 year contract. but that doesnt include the ohio satellite tax of 3-4 bucks a month as well.




I have RR turbo Digital Extended Tier HD , HD DVR and 1 cable card rental and with the package I get that for 100 a month and some change.


----------



## hookbill

Got an email from my contact at TWC:


It looks like your area is scheduled for the Navigator conversion tonight. We'll be converting the SA 8300HD boxes.

The last time around we only did the 8300HDC (OCAP) boxes).


I live on the border of Geauga and Portage Counties. If your in my area we should see something tomorrow.


----------



## scnrfrq

Is anyone having problems receiving Channel 1302, ESPN2 HD? I have 3 boxes - it comes in fine on 2 of them, but is only a blank screen on the 3rd box. TW was of no help at all (surprise!). Any ideas?


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18400343
> 
> 
> Is anyone having problems receiving Channel 1302, ESPN2 HD? I have 3 boxes - it comes in fine on 2 of them, but is only a blank screen on the 3rd box. TW was of no help at all (surprise!). Any ideas?



Looks like a low signal issue. I added an amplifier and Channel 1302 showed up.


----------



## hookbill

Last night, for reasons unknown I had no ESPN on my upstairs TiVo. I don't know what the current situation is.


Navigator arrived, and my first impression was what a relief to get rid of that ugly SARA UI. Then I punched a number in the guide and it wouldn't change to the channel! WTF. You have to scroll to get to the channel you want.


No changes still for the TiVo Tuner Adapter. Apparently that will be the last device they will make the changes on so for right now I get all my HD channels in the 1000's on the SA 8300 and TiVo's are still receiving them in the 400's.


Spike TV actually recorded last night on my TiVo. First time in 3 weeks. Great job TW.


I can't think of any other HD channels I want. If TW was to leave the TiVo's alone in the 400's forever that would be fine with me.


----------



## bassguitarman

We got the Navigator update. Copley former Adelphia area. I didnt lose any recording but I had to put in my scheduled recordings. So far so good.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/18402762
> 
> 
> We got the Navigator update. Copley former Adelphia area. I didnt lose any recording but I had to put in my scheduled recordings. So far so good.



Another TiVo advantage, it will change when the lineup changes so you don't have to redo your recordings. I have over 50 season passes, that would be a pia for me.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

Got the update. Columbia Station, former Adelphia, 8300HD, everything seems to be working. No problem entering 4-digit channel numbers.


----------



## smoti17

Also got the update to my SA3250HD box ("Suburban Cleveland" former Adelphia area). Doesn't feel like I'm interacting with some 1980s video game console any more - more like a slow version of the Sky DigiBox I got in 2000.


It's running Explorer with the HD channels in the 1000s. TiVo still has HD channels in 400s.

They seem to have done this without breaking anything so far.


----------



## agentbeast

The update is garbage as far as I'm concerned. Half the features I used in the old version are gone. I used to have the display go blank when I turned off the box so my bedroom didn't glow green. Can't do that anymore.







My other box doesn't play nice with my Reciever anymore either.







It get's stuck in a loop switching between 1080i and whatever that station is broadcast in be it 720p or 480i.







The old version worked just fine. It's no longer easy to switch days in the guide either. I used to be able to just press B and choose what day I wanted to look at. Nope can't do that anymore either.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agentbeast* /forum/post/18405339
> 
> 
> The update is garbage as far as I'm concerned. Half the features I used in the old version are gone. I used to have the display go blank when I turned off the box so my bedroom didn't glow green. Can't do that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My other box doesn't play nice with my Reciever anymore either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It get's stuck in a loop switching between 1080i and whatever that station is broadcast in be it 720p or 480i.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The old version worked just fine. It's no longer easy to switch days in the guide either. I used to be able to just press B and choose what day I wanted to look at. Nope can't do that anymore either.



Agree that it sucks. The only improvement is that it recalls where you stopped playing a DVR recording--with SARA, you always started at the beginning and had to fast forward. A minor improvement is that if you are fast forwarding or rewinding, it compensates for your reaction time when you press PLAY, so you don't overshoot where you wanted to stop the fast cycling.


----------



## hookbill

I just can't wait for this crap to hit my tuner adapters. But I will say this, I didn't think it would get completed by end of the month and it looks like outside of the tuner adapters they are going to do it.


I don't think the tuner adapters are high on their priority list, which is fine with me.


----------



## cleveman

Got the Navigator update last night to our 8300HD (Sagamore Hills - Macedonia head end). Seems to have gone without a hitch - including all recordings still in tact despite the attached external HD - I was pretty nervous about that.


I actually like Navigator so far... it might be a BIT slower than SARA, but not nearly as slow as my brother's Dish Network DVR.


At the risk of sounding like a TWC PR person...


I know lots of folks have headaches with TWC, but our experience with them over the last several years has been good enough to keep us a customer... and family members with Dish and U-verse have had many more issues than we've had - so unless they screw us up badly, we're staying put.


----------



## agentbeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cleveman* /forum/post/18407353
> 
> 
> I know lots of folks have headaches with TWC, but our experience with them over the last several years has been good enough to keep us a customer... and family members with Dish and U-verse have had many more issues than we've had - so unless they screw us up badly, we're staying put.




It's one of those deals where you choose who sucks the least not who provides the best programming and service for your dollar. The whole Cable/Satellite/Fiber industry sucks.


----------



## subavision212

Had a question about using a Roku Box with a Time Warner cable modem. I ran an ethernet cord from the cable modem into a 5-port ethernet switch and then ran ethernet cords from that to my iMac (which connected to the internet no problem) and out to the Roku but the Roku unit won't connect to the internet no matter how many times I tried. did check the FAQ at Roku and sent them an email but wondered what people thought here. I even ran the ethernet cord directly from the cable modem to the Roku and it still won't connect to the internet which made me think is there some sort of block on the TW cable modem or something like that? The modem is a Motorola SB5101 surfboard cable modem. Thought since many of you here are experts on this technical stuff someone might have a suggestion. thanks a bunch.


----------



## hookbill

I've never met a cable company I've liked. I liked direct TV.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18407619
> 
> 
> Had a question about using a Roku Box with a Time Warner cable modem. I ran an ethernet cord from the cable modem into a 5-port ethernet switch and then ran ethernet cords from that to my iMac (which connected to the internet no problem) and out to the Roku but the Roku unit won't connect to the internet no matter how many times I tried. did check the FAQ at Roku and sent them an email but wondered what people thought here. I even ran the ethernet cord directly from the cable modem to the Roku and it still won't connect to the internet which made me think is there some sort of block on the TW cable modem or something like that? The modem is a Motorola SB5101 surfboard cable modem. Thought since many of you here are experts on this technical stuff someone might have a suggestion. thanks a bunch.



You need a router instead. A switch will not do it. The cable modem only gives you one ip (unless you buy more from TWC, if they even allow it on residential accounts?). A switch can only forward the ip's from the modem to connected devices. A router will take the single ip you have now and translate it into an internal network with a virtually limitless number of devices/ip's.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18407634
> 
> 
> You need a router instead. A switch will not do it. The cable modem only gives you one ip (unless you buy more from TWC, if they even allow it on residential accounts?). A switch can only forward the ip's from the modem to connected devices. A router will take the single ip you have now and translate it into an internal network with a virtually limitless number of devices/ip's.



thanks for the info. I friend of mine told me that the 5-port switch was what I needed but I guess he was wrong. I guess I need to go shopping again. Any suggestions on a good unit? thanks.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18407833
> 
> 
> thanks for the info. I friend of mine told me that the 5-port switch was what I needed but I guess he was wrong. I guess I need to go shopping again.



Vchat is exactly right. The modem issues a single IP address unless the user purchases more of them. Many people confuse routers and switches; a router will run NAT protocol, issuing multiple private-range IPs (usually in the 192.168.1.x range) to your devices while translating all of them to a single IP facing the modem. A switch is a relatively dumb device that doesn't have the ability to do this.


The good news is that routers are dirt cheap these days.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18407622
> 
> 
> I've never met a cable company I've liked. I liked direct TV.



This. I'm beginning to un-hate Directv a little more each day.










I'm beginning to fear U-Verse's different system a little less each day too.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18407924
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to fear U-Verse's different system a little less each day too.



U-Verse isn't bad. My brother in Columbus switched recently from WOW. Shared DVR space, half decent DVR/set-top UI. One thing I loved when I played around with it is the channel changing is LITERALLY instantaneous. Flicked right over before I could blink. Compression is a little icky but nothing worse than I've seen on TWC. And as a plus, the set-top boxes are tiny and can be run off ethernet or coax (I think even using the phone line in the house is possible via HPNA)


Kinda wish we had something like that around here. Kinda good news is Centurylink is rolling out IPTV service in some areas. Doubt we'll get it here anytime in the near future though. :/


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18407964
> 
> 
> U-Verse isn't bad. My brother in Columbus switched recently from WOW. Shared DVR space, half decent DVR/set-top UI. One thing I loved when I played around with it is the channel changing is LITERALLY instantaneous. Flicked right over before I could blink. Compression is a little icky but nothing worse than I've seen on TWC. And as a plus, the set-top boxes are tiny and can be run off ethernet or coax (I think even using the phone line in the house is possible via HPNA)
> 
> 
> Kinda wish we had something like that around here. Kinda good news is Centurylink is rolling out IPTV service in some areas. Doubt we'll get it here anytime in the near future though. :/



Oh really.







That's what kinda scared me was the IPTV/internet aspect. I wasn't sure how that worked compared to the typical TWC system. But it sounds pretty good if they can do playback on different boxes and channels changing instantly would be nice. Even the analog and digital SD channels are slow on TWC, the HD ones are even worse.


But still what I would really love is Verizon. IDK if it's true, but I've read that you can use Tivo with FIOS. If there was a way to use Tivo without that SDV/TA bs combined with some of the best ISP speeds, that would be the best viewing experience ever. Of course Ohio sucks and we'd never get it.


But I've been hearing more about Uverse. They must have expanded their coverage area and are finally getting competitive with TWC. I'm gonna keep my ears open for them.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18407921
> 
> 
> Vchat is exactly right. The modem issues a single IP address unless the user purchases more of them. Many people confuse routers and switches; a router will run NAT protocol, issuing multiple private-range IPs (usually in the 192.168.1.x range) to your devices while translating all of them to a single IP facing the modem. A switch is a relatively dumb device that doesn't have the ability to do this.
> 
> 
> The good news is that routers are dirt cheap these days.



Just packed up the switch for a return to Amazon and ordered a Cisco-Linksys WRT54GL Wireless-G Broadband Router. Many good reviews so hopefully this will be what I need. so nice to have a mess of experts on this forum.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18408348
> 
> 
> Just packed up the switch for a return to Amazon and ordered a Cisco-Linksys WRT54GL Wireless-G Broadband Router. Many good reviews so hopefully this will be what I need. so nice to have a mess of experts on this forum.



Since you decided to get the 'L' version, might as well take advantage of it and load better firmware .


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18408348
> 
> 
> Just packed up the switch for a return to Amazon and ordered a Cisco-Linksys WRT54GL Wireless-G Broadband Router. Many good reviews so hopefully this will be what I need. so nice to have a mess of experts on this forum.



Good choice. As TheAngryPenguin said, it's flashable with third party firmware if you ever want to add features to it. I'd wait until the warranty ran out before trying that though.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18408201
> 
> 
> Oh really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what kinda scared me was the IPTV/internet aspect. I wasn't sure how that worked compared to the typical TWC system. But it sounds pretty good if they can do playback on different boxes and channels changing instantly would be nice. Even the analog and digital SD channels are slow on TWC, the HD ones are even worse.
> 
> 
> But still what I would really love is Verizon. IDK if it's true, but I've read that you can use Tivo with FIOS. If there was a way to use Tivo without that SDV/TA bs combined with some of the best ISP speeds, that would be the best viewing experience ever. Of course Ohio sucks and we'd never get it.
> 
> 
> But I've been hearing more about Uverse. They must have expanded their coverage area and are finally getting competitive with TWC. I'm gonna keep my ears open for them.



Yeah. At least for the weekend I was down there, I didn't even notice anything that made it stick out like it was IPTV (except for maybe the fact when you scroll through the guide it will show a live preview of the channel you have hilighted in a small window in the bottom corner with the actual tuned channel full screen translucent behind the guide, albeit really low-res. THAT was a neat feature). The only real big downside is the limit on tuned channels at one time but that just depends on your own personal usage.


FiOS on the other hand does their TV service just like any other cableco. All RF QAM based. Difference though is you have your own personal node on the side of your house. But the internet and phone packages run on different wavelengths on the fiber line and do not take up valuable space of the 1Ghz span of RF for TV, no SDV required.







. They also are fully digital with no analog (though they used to have analog cable service when they first started out) so all that space is wide open for digital cable, HD or SD. With that said, it is compatible with any QAM and Cablecard capable device such as a Tivo or Windows Media Center PC (with the right hardware), no tuned channel limitations, etc..


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18408489
> 
> 
> Good choice. As TheAngryPenguin said, it's flashable with third party firmware if you ever want to add features to it. I'd wait until the warranty ran out before trying that though.



Indeed. Unless you are very comfortable with that sort of thing I'd pass. As crappy as the stock firmware is, 'It Just Works'.


----------



## MarkyM

Hi,


Got the Navigator "upgrade" on my SA 8300HDC box last week here in Twinsburg.


I do miss the "B" button for changing days but it seems to be OK I guess except for this:


There's an annoying bug in Navigator (was fine on SARA) where I must go into the Menu and reset the Settings / Devices / Audio: Digital Output setting from HDMI to Dolby Digital each time the box is powered up because this setting won't stick through a power cycle anymore.


I am using the HDMI output for video direct to my HDTV but the optical output for audio to my AVR.


I have reported this to TWC via email and live chat. The rep said he would escalate it to the "seniors" and he gave me a ticket number.


--Mark--


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkyM* /forum/post/18409060
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> Got the Navigator "upgrade" on my SA 8300HDC box last week.
> 
> 
> I do miss the "B" button for changing days but it seems to be OK I guess except for this:
> 
> 
> There's an annoying bug in Navigator (was fine on SARA) where I must go into the Menu and reset the Settings / Devices / Audio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> igital Output setting from "HDMI" to "Dolby Digital" each time the box is powered up because this setting won't "stick" through a power cycle anymore.
> 
> 
> I am using the HDMI output for video direct to my HDTV but the optical output for audio to my AVR.
> 
> 
> I have reported this to TWC via email and live chat. The rep said he would escalate it to the "seniors" and he gave me a ticket number.
> 
> 
> --Mark--



This is a long standing bug that's been known for a long while. Word is there is a fix in the pipeline but when it gets to you is another story. The only real workaround that I have heard of is to unplug the HDMI and go Component to the tv and keep the optical there.


There's a whole thread on Navigator here btw: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830 (The 'Search this Thread' tool is very valuable. *hinthint*)


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/18408439
> 
> 
> Since you decided to get the 'L' version, might as well take advantage of it and load better firmware .



I'll second the WRT54GL with Tomato FW. The GL with stock FW is pretty rock solid to begin with. Tomato FW really unlocks the GL's real potential.

Even just using Tomato's default settings you will likely see improvements in signal strength and throughput.


----------



## Chris Isble

Got the Navigator yesterday.


Besides the problems with changing days and direct channel access in the guide, I can no longer use the number keys for power on. Maybe I haven't dug into the settings deep enough, but without this I need to rewrite the power on/off macros in my universal remote.


I keep a direct cable connection to my TV, so that I can watch analog channels when I am too lazy to turn on the cable box and audio receiver. This morning, all the local analog channels were displaying a test pattern.


So far, I am not very impressed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble* /forum/post/18410785
> 
> 
> Got the Navigator yesterday.
> 
> 
> Besides the problems with changing days and direct channel access in the guide, I can no longer use the number keys for power on. Maybe I haven't dug into the settings deep enough, but without this I need to rewrite the power on/off macros in my universal remote.
> 
> 
> I keep a direct cable connection to my TV, so that I can watch analog channels when I am too lazy to turn on the cable box and audio receiver. This morning, all the local analog channels were displaying a test pattern.
> 
> 
> So far, I am not very impressed.



Well, I'll say this. I haven't played with it at all but it looks much nicer then SARA. That was such an eye soar.


My wife seems pleased with it, she's not complaining.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agentbeast* /forum/post/18405339
> 
> 
> The update is garbage as far as I'm concerned. Half the features I used in the old version are gone. I used to have the display go blank when I turned off the box so my bedroom didn't glow green. Can't do that anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My other box doesn't play nice with my Reciever anymore either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It get's stuck in a loop switching between 1080i and whatever that station is broadcast in be it 720p or 480i.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The old version worked just fine. It's no longer easy to switch days in the guide either. I used to be able to just press B and choose what day I wanted to look at. Nope can't do that anymore either.



Not arguing with most of your post but the switch days thing is invalid. For example, lets say today is Monday, and you wanted to go to Thursday.


Old way:


Press guide.

Press B.

Press down arrow

Press down arrow

Press down arrow

Press select

It would now be on Thursday.


New way:


Press guide.

Press days +

Press days +

Press days +

It would now be Thursday.


The new way is actually shorter and easier to use. Just use the days +/- on the guide.


I also like the channel surfing if you are watching a show and you are scrolling through the channels (not the guide) it keeps on the screen what channel you currently are on as you look at other channels.


But there are things I still hate about it too. Mixed bag.


----------



## HDTD

Didn't see it in a search and figured I'd post...I hear that Cox Cable is to air the Masters in 3D, I emailed them about it and they were quick to reply:


Cox is excited to be offering this event to our customers. We will be showing the event on channel 999. There will be coverage from April 7 - 11, 4pm-7pm. In order to view the content in 3D, you will need a new 3DTV (compatible models are below), and a Cox Hi Def or HD/DVR receiver. The receiver must be connected to the 3D TV via HDMI (standard HDMI cables are compatible). The TV manufacturer's specified 3D glasses will also be required to view the content in 3D.


Compatible 3D TV - Model Numbers

Samsung UN55C7000 55-Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3D LED HDTV (Black)

Samsung UN46C7000 46-Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3D LED HDTV (Black)

Panasonic TC-P50VT20 50 Plasma


The daily three hours of programming will include 2 hours of live coverage and 1 hour of the previous day's highlights. Additionally, there will be 3D content available On Demand (channel 1) that you can access anytime.


----------



## scnrfrq

Looks like we're stuck with TW forever - yikes!
http://www.tvpredictions.com/verizon033010.htm


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18411510
> 
> 
> Looks like we're stuck with TW forever - yikes!
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/verizon033010.htm



Not a big deal. Verizon FiOS was never likely to come here, anyway, as they wouldn't spend the big bucks to put up brand new lines in an area they don't serve as the ILEC (incumbent local exchange carrier). That's why we have AT&T U-verse, since AT&T is the ILEC (phone company) for most of Northeast Ohio.


And yes, I know Verizon has some ILEC presence - Medina County, for example, the old GTE system. I doubt that even if they were looking at new markets, they'd offer FiOS in this relatively small area.


ETA: Just noticed that you're up in Erie. I don't know who the ILEC is up there - is it Verizon? - but I'd guess the same would apply to Erie as I said about Medina.


----------



## hookbill

Well, as often as I have bad mouthed TWC and I do it a lot some of my bad mouthing really isn't justified. I have in a sense been able to secure customer service that the average user isn't able to, and that's basically due to one employee over there. So if I had to pick a cable company that was "better" then some of the many others, it would be TWC. They certainly are better the Adelphia was. They were terrible.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18408348
> 
> 
> Just packed up the switch for a return to Amazon and ordered a Cisco-Linksys WRT54GL Wireless-G Broadband Router. Many good reviews so hopefully this will be what I need. so nice to have a mess of experts on this forum.



That should do just fine for you. Don't worry about putting new firmware in right away, as you'll be fine with the stock unit. If you're feeling like tinkering later, sure, but you don't need it right off the bat.


The Netgear WGR614 (around $40 most stores) is also a good cheap router.


----------



## Beta Man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18411510
> 
> 
> Looks like we're stuck with TW forever - yikes!
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/verizon033010.htm



yikes.....


I moved from Cleveland (one mile away) to Lakewood, and now I believe "COX" is the only game in town.... although I'm not sure.... I jumped on Dish-Network a few years ago, and haven't thought about going back yet..... The stranglehold these guys have is ridiculous.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18411423
> 
> 
> Not arguing with most of your post but the switch days thing is invalid. For example, lets say today is Monday, and you wanted to go to Thursday.
> 
> 
> Old way:
> 
> 
> Press guide.
> 
> Press B.
> 
> Press down arrow
> 
> Press down arrow
> 
> Press down arrow
> 
> Press select
> 
> It would now be on Thursday.
> 
> 
> New way:
> 
> 
> Press guide.
> 
> Press days +
> 
> Press days +
> 
> Press days +
> 
> It would now be Thursday.
> 
> 
> The new way is actually shorter and easier to use. Just use the days +/- on the guide.



Thanks for this. I don't remember seeing a days +/- button. I'll have to dig out the original remote when I get home.


----------



## smoti17

I'd wouldn't sign up for a TV service that doesn't work with my TiVo, but would love to have U-Verse here for just Internet access, instead of the miserable 1.5Mb/s the AT&T DSL plant can manage or the flaky 3Mb/s I get off a Covad reseller. NO WAY are TWC getting my Internet access business until they stop trying to regularly break my TV service.


Is there any way of knowing planned service areas for U-Verse ? It seems to be available in other parts of Shaker less than 2 miles away, but not here :-( I'm also curious why U-Verse is exempted from supporting cablecards.


We work a lot with Comcast in my day job. They seem like a much better company than TWC, pushing the edge deploying new technologies like IPv6, DOCSIS 3 and DNSSEC.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/18411779
> 
> 
> Not a big deal. Verizon FiOS was never likely to come here, anyway, as they wouldn't spend the big bucks to put up brand new lines in an area they don't serve as the ILEC (incumbent local exchange carrier). That's why we have AT&T U-verse, since AT&T is the ILEC (phone company) for most of Northeast Ohio.
> 
> 
> And yes, I know Verizon has some ILEC presence - Medina County, for example, the old GTE system. I doubt that even if they were looking at new markets, they'd offer FiOS in this relatively small area.
> 
> 
> ETA: Just noticed that you're up in Erie. I don't know who the ILEC is up there - is it Verizon? - but I'd guess the same would apply to Erie as I said about Medina.



Yes, it is Verizon here. We were looking forward to FIOS after Pittsburgh approved it.


----------



## Goldenager62

I have three channels out here: VS HD, AMC HD, and Animal Planet HD.


----------



## Robert K S

In Cleveland proper. My box got the Navigator "upgrade" sometime between 3 and 4 AM Tuesday morning, March 30. I have an SA Explorer 8300HD box.


The good: It seems that all my shows on the external SATA drive are intact and can be read. Also, there's no more annoying stutter/drop-out that was previously present and would happen every ten or fifteen minutes or so, sometimes losing the important word or words in a line of dialog. The auto-correction for human reaction time when hitting play from a FF state is kind of nice. The favorites button now works to cycle through my favorite channels, which I think is pretty cool, and I don't remember this working with the old system, although it's possible I just never set any favorites settings. I also don't remember the picture-in-picture feature working before, and it seems to work well now.


The bad: Lost the 4x rewind/fast-forward speed, so it takes longer to navigate through larger shows. (Will they ever give it back?) I can't figure out how to record a series from the guide--where's the option for that?


The ugly: The interface sucks, as we all knew. The guide displays less information. I can only see an hour and a half worth of time, whereas before I could see a full two hours. The title of almost every program is truncated in the guide. Why does the guide only take up the 4:3 area of my 16:9 screen? Why do they waste all that space showing blank gray border when that space could be used to give me information? Why doesn't it display a year something was recorded? Why can't I find any recording settings to tell it to keep shows for only a certain duration?


Any answers to my questions would be appreciated!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robert K S* /forum/post/18414906
> 
> 
> In Cleveland proper. My box got the Navigator "upgrade" sometime between 3 and 4 AM Tuesday morning, March 30. I have an SA Explorer 8300HD box.
> 
> 
> The good: It seems that all my shows on the external SATA drive are intact and can be read. Also, there's no more annoying stutter/drop-out that was previously present and would happen every ten or fifteen minutes or so, sometimes losing the important word or words in a line of dialog. The auto-correction for human reaction time when hitting play from a FF state is kind of nice. The favorites button now works to cycle through my favorite channels, which I think is pretty cool, and I don't remember this working with the old system, although it's possible I just never set any favorites settings. I also don't remember the picture-in-picture feature working before, and it seems to work well now.
> 
> 
> The bad: Lost the 4x rewind/fast-forward speed, so it takes longer to navigate through larger shows. (Will they ever give it back?) I can't figure out how to record a series from the guide--where's the option for that?
> 
> 
> The ugly: The interface sucks, as we all knew. The guide displays less information. I can only see an hour and a half worth of time, whereas before I could see a full two hours. The title of almost every program is truncated in the guide. Why does the guide only take up the 4:3 area of my 16:9 screen? Why do they waste all that space showing blank gray border when that space could be used to give me information? Why doesn't it display a year something was recorded? Why can't I find any recording settings to tell it to keep shows for only a certain duration?
> 
> 
> Any answers to my questions would be appreciated!



In a nutshell, you get what you pay for. IMHO Navigator appears to be a step in the right direction just for the search feature alone. Want better guide info in 16:9? Want a date of not only when it was recorded but also the date and time it first aired? Want to be able to tell it to keep a program 1-7 days or until I delete? Want to be able to tell it how many episodes to keep? Then pay for a Moxi or a TiVo.


Actually I don't have any idea what a Moxi does but TiVo does all of that. Also you wouldn't have to redo your recordings when there's a major change, TiVo is intuitive enough to change your "season passes" to the proper channels that they need to be recorded on. I will be the first to tell you you'll lose those great TW features like Start Over and On Demand but overall you'll have a better DVR even with the tuner adapter.


TiVo's are pretty cheap right now, you can get a TiVo HD for about 179.00 at Best Buy. That doesn't include service.


Glad to see the eSATA made it though the transition for you. Question is, will it work for you with Navigator software? Good luck.


----------



## bassguitarman

An even easier way to change days

enter a number from 1-6 and press the right arrow


----------



## k2rj

Hook, I agree. THe Navigator format is different from SARA, but the fonts and screen displays are sharper (much easier for my vision-impaired wife to read!) and some of the features are more intuitive. I really like the search feature which was all but useless under SARA. The record functions will take a little getting used to (it seems not all shows support "Series with options") but I am generally pleased.


----------



## groebuck

I picked up a calvalry 1tb external esata for 89 bucks off amazon - so far so good on my 8300hdc, weird thing happened - when I plugged it in I lost all of my new hd channels, the screen was just black...even weirder when I pulled out the 8300hdc to pull the power to see if a reboot fixed it, the channels would come back in!! seriously if I pushed it back in to the cubby gone, pulled out there...I figured a loose connection so I doubel checked them all...nope all was good. So I put a moto signal boster box between the wall and the dvr and viola - all the hd was back....I have no idea how adding the esata had anything to do with signal degredation since it is an external powered device... oh well. I get small hiccups on hd now - like once in a while - so I am not sure if I still have a loose issue, a power issue or ??


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18412638
> 
> 
> Yes, it is Verizon here. We were looking forward to FIOS after Pittsburgh approved it.



Ah. Well, Erie was probably too small a market to get FiOS even before Verizon decided to pull back.


----------



## agentbeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18411423
> 
> 
> Not arguing with most of your post but the switch days thing is invalid. For example, lets say today is Monday, and you wanted to go to Thursday.
> 
> 
> Old way:
> 
> 
> Press guide.
> 
> Press B.
> 
> Press down arrow
> 
> Press down arrow
> 
> Press down arrow
> 
> Press select
> 
> It would now be on Thursday.
> 
> 
> New way:
> 
> 
> Press guide.
> 
> Press days +
> 
> Press days +
> 
> Press days +
> 
> It would now be Thursday.
> 
> 
> The new way is actually shorter and easier to use. Just use the days +/- on the guide.
> 
> 
> I also like the channel surfing if you are watching a show and you are scrolling through the channels (not the guide) it keeps on the screen what channel you currently are on as you look at other channels.
> 
> 
> But there are things I still hate about it too. Mixed bag.




I had an old remote. Circa 2005 or so. It was the remote I got when I picked up the DVR box from Adelphia. I finally bit the bullet and turned it in for this monstrosity of a remote they use now. The old remote didn't have any of these extra buttons. Such as the day +- buttons or On Demand ect ect. So I had to scroll through rather than just jumping to whatever day I wanted.


----------



## agentbeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/18415637
> 
> 
> An even easier way to change days
> 
> enter a number from 1-6 and press the right arrow




Too much thinking to use a cable box if I need to know how many days forward I want to go.


----------



## bassguitarman

Without calling customer service (?) Any ideas why since the conversion CNN HD is blocked ? HLN and FOX HD still are open

former Adelphia area


----------



## Robert K S

Thanks for the reply, hookbill, but if I buy a TiVo, will it work with my HD Time Warner Cable?


One other major downside with the "upgrade" to Navigator:


Under the old system, my DVR was *always* saving and storing up the currently playing program on the tuned channel to the DVR and would save up to one hour's worth of live content. This was true no matter how long the DVR would be left on. I could tune to a local network in the morning, leave for work, and come home at 7:00 PM, then rewind to watch the 6:30 national news.


Now, it seems like the hard drives shut off after a little while and content isn't saved up. If I come home and try to rewind, I get nothing. The live programming hasn't been saved.


Is there some kind of adjustable setting for this? I would prefer to go back to the old way. (Not really worried about constant wear on the drives.)


----------



## ErieMarty

I hear ESPN is suppose to show the Masters golf Tournament in 3D..


any idea how it works ???


do you have to get sepcial Glasses from somewhere...


----------



## Smarty-pants

You have to have a 3D capable tv to start with.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/18425120
> 
> 
> I hear ESPN is suppose to show the Masters golf Tournament in 3D..
> 
> 
> any idea how it works ???
> 
> 
> do you have to get sepcial Glasses from somewhere...



its not espn, its comcast and they will be selling the rights to other cable providers.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smarty-pants* /forum/post/18425295
> 
> 
> You have to have a 3D capable tv to start with.



why ?? I Can remember watching a Super Bowl Comercial in 3D and didn't they have a tribute to Michael Jackson in 3D at the Grammies this year..and all you needed were the special glasses..


so what makes a 3D TV different then in the past..


thanks


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/18426093
> 
> 
> why ?? I Can remember watching a Super Bowl Comercial in 3D and didn't they have a tribute to Michael Jackson in 3D at the Grammies this year..and all you needed were the special glasses..
> 
> 
> so what makes a 3D TV different then in the past..
> 
> 
> thanks



They use a different and much better technology now. Rather than the old crappy anaglyph (red/blue lenses) method they use what many of the 3d movies are using now in the theaters which is the polarized lenses which doesn't shat on the picture quality and only diminishes the brightness (which can be overcome in the display). But this requires displays that can display two separate polarized images.


Though I think some 3D tv manufacturers are going the 'simple' route and displaying the 3d video at like 120hz native (60hz for each eye) and using synchronized LCD shutter glasses. I'm not totally sure.


Either way it is a major improvement in the tech and yields MUCH better picture quality. The downside is it just requires new display hardware. But FWIW this has been the modus operandi of the entertainment industry for decades. HDTV's anyone?


PS: I should also add that one other advantage of the newer tech is that it is capable of a much broader and varied depth field. The old anaglyph method was fairly limited. Most of the time you pretty much only had 'flat image' and 'flat image-depth', fairly fakey feeling.


----------



## JJkizak

The new 3D tvs project a double image, first image for left eye, second for right eye, then third for left eye and so on. The glasses ($150.00) are IR controlled from the TV so if you look away you loose sync. The glasses turn on left eye then right eye while shutting off the left eye, etc. The old system which does work with one image yellow, one blue (many color combos in existance) does add a color tint but uses .10 cent glasses. Anyway check with the 3D section of this forum.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agentbeast* /forum/post/18420476
> 
> 
> I had an old remote. Circa 2005 or so. It was the remote I got when I picked up the DVR box from Adelphia. I finally bit the bullet and turned it in for this monstrosity of a remote they use now. The old remote didn't have any of these extra buttons. Such as the day +- buttons or On Demand ect ect. So I had to scroll through rather than just jumping to whatever day I wanted.



Pick up a new one, they are free.


----------



## agentbeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18426451
> 
> 
> Pick up a new one, they are free.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agentbeast* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally bit the bullet and turned it in for this monstrosity of a remote they use now.



...


----------



## ClevIndn

For you TiVo users out there that never seem to have any luck with calling TW support to resolve the Tuning Adapter blinking light issue...


The last two times I have used the online chat support feature. I've been done within 5 minutes both times I've had to do it. Both reps seemed to know exactly what to do (they called it "refreshing the signals") and within a few minutes of disconnecting (I don't wait around in the chat), the TA stops blinking.


----------



## hookbill

Having your TA serial number available and using the term "addressable hit" works like a charm.


----------



## Goldenager62

TBS HD no video only audio, but start over works with no problem.


----------



## groebuck

but you had to call twice . to resolve the issue.


----------



## zaqdiesel

Anybody else having this problem?


Since the switch over to navigator, ESPN HD is no longer coming through in dolby digital sound. ESPN 2, and the other ESPN channels are distinctly different and using the center speaker channel, but the regular ESPN HD seems to be only coming through in 2.1 audio and not using the center channel. Prior to the switch over this was not the case. I've already tried switching out DVRs and the same thing is happening on the new one. The sound output is set to Dolby Digital.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zaqdiesel* /forum/post/18438443
> 
> 
> The sound output is set to Dolby Digital.



Check and make sure that the box hasn't reset it to HDMI--there is a Navigator bug that resets it when you turn off the box or switch your monitor to some other HDMI input.


----------



## agentbeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18440220
> 
> 
> Check and make sure that the box hasn't reset it to HDMI--there is a Navigator bug that resets it when you turn off the box or switch your monitor to some other HDMI input.




I don't know maybe it's just my setup but I have HDMI running to the TV and an Optical cable running to the receiver. The box audio output is set to HDMI yet I still get Dolby Surround on the receiver through the optical cable. Before the switchover I used to just have HDMI to the receiver then HDMI from there to the TV, but with Navigator it get's into a loop switching from the current resolution to the broadcast resolution over and over.


----------



## zaqdiesel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18440220
> 
> 
> Check and make sure that the box hasn't reset it to HDMI--there is a Navigator bug that resets it when you turn off the box or switch your monitor to some other HDMI input.




Yes the box is set to DD. I have the component video cables to my TV and a digital audio cable to my reciever, so I have not had any issues with that automatic reset witht he HDMI. The sound is only different on ESPN HD, the other ESPN channels (2, U, news...) are all coming in fine. It's driving me nuts.


----------



## Shark73

Since my box got the update, I still do not CNN HD. The message says 'To Receive this channel, call Customer Care" I did this on day one of the update. The CSR said they know about the problem on some boxes and it should be fixed that night. 3 -4 days later and I still don't have the channel. Anyone know what the issue is with CNN HD? The odd thing is CNN HD comes in fine on the box upstairs.


Thanks!


Jim


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/18444153
> 
> 
> Since my box got the update, I still do not CNN HD. The message says 'To Receive this channel, call Customer Care" I did this on day one of the update. The CSR said they know about the problem on some boxes and it should be fixed that night. 3 -4 days later and I still don't have the channel. Anyone know what the issue is with CNN HD? The odd thing is CNN HD comes in fine on the box upstairs.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Jim



Weird. I'll take a look at my SA 8300 later which is upgraded later but I had it on my TiVos all day today. They still are using the old lineup.


----------



## Shark73




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18444189
> 
> 
> Weird. I'll take a look at my SA 8300 later which is upgraded later but I had it on my TiVos all day today. They still are using the old lineup.



Thanks! The CSR's other comment was to reboot the box...which I've done many times. No clue what the issue is with this box and CNN HD. Guess I will have to break down and call TWC again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shark73* /forum/post/18444219
> 
> 
> Thanks! The CSR's other comment was to reboot the box...which I've done many times. No clue what the issue is with this box and CNN HD. Guess I will have to break down and call TWC again.



i followed up on what my SA 8300 box (Navigator) was doing on CNN HD and as of 6:15 am this morning CNN HD was coming in fine. I think you had a CSR who didn't know what they were talking about UNLESS you happen to live in a weird place like Mentor where they seem to get HD on an irregular basis.


Let me clarify. I'm not saying Mentor is weird, I'm saying that TWC in Mentor is weird.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18445725
> 
> 
> Let me clarify. I'm not saying Mentor is weird, I'm saying that TWC in Mentor is weird.




Hook,


I resemble that remark!


Ray


----------



## k2rj

I'm trying to figure out the meaning of the conflict icon (red triangle with exclamation point within it) that shows up on some of the recordings in my list. They seem to play normally. I would think the conflict would have to be resolved _before_ the recording! Anybody know what this means?


Ron J.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/18445963
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the meaning of the conflict icon (red triangle with exclamation point within it) that shows up on some of the recordings in my list.



It means that the show was so bad that the DVR was having an emotional conflict about tying up hard drive space with it.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/18445963
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the meaning of the conflict icon (red triangle with exclamation point within it) that shows up on some of the recordings in my list. They seem to play normally. I would think the conflict would have to be resolved _before_ the recording! Anybody know what this means?
> 
> 
> Ron J.



After our channel upgrade in Mentor a couple weeks ago I had to manually delete many of my series recording schedules and re-enter the series recording with the proper channel number. The recorder wanted to record on channel 1 on the scheduled recordings I deleted. I missed a few days before I realized something was wrong.


I also had an issue Monday evening. I record Castle and Nurse Jackie at the same time, 10pm. At about 10:15 I tried to begin watching Castle and Fast Forwarding through the commercials as I usually do but when I would start Castle The picture was only the upper right hand corner preview shot you get when moving through the menu and I also had no FF or RW control over the playback. I changed over to the OTA and watched the NCAA game and after 11pm went back to the recordings of Castle and all was well after the two shows were done recording. TWC may still have a few problems in certain areas.


Ray


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18446570
> 
> 
> After our channel upgrade in Mentor a couple weeks ago I had to manually delete many of my series recording schedules and re-enter the series recording with the proper channel number. The recorder wanted to record on channel 1 on the scheduled recordings I deleted. I missed a few days before I realized something was wrong.
> 
> 
> I also had an issue Monday evening. I record Castle and Nurse Jackie at the same time, 10pm. At about 10:15 I tried to begin watching Castle and Fast Forwarding through the commercials as I usually do but when I would start Castle The picture was only the upper right hand corner preview shot you get when moving through the menu and I also had no FF or RW control over the playback. I changed over to the OTA and watched the NCAA game and after 11pm went back to the recordings of Castle and all was well after the two shows were done recording. TWC may still have a few problems in certain areas.
> 
> 
> Ray



I've had no issues recording or playing back programs or series. In fact, I like the feature in Navigator that when you press play from FF, it automatically goes back a few seconds and you don't have to manually press the "go back" button.


None of my previously scheduled programs transfered over to Navigator, but that was no big deal to me since most of them were old "trash" (series that had ended) that I never bothered to delete.


Ron J.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18446209
> 
> 
> It means that the show was so bad that the DVR was having an emotional conflict about tying up hard drive space with it.



Don't you just hate it when the equipment gets emotional? !!!


----------



## ErieMarty

been asked in a while..


but anyone hear when NEW HD Channels might be added ?


YES I know they have trouble getting current ones available in all areas or those do get them not to have trouble getting them at night when you get the screen saying..


Not Available try again...



Yes its more important to make sure EVERYONE is able to get whats currently available in HD..


but just curious what might be added at some point


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/18449395
> 
> 
> been asked in a while..
> 
> 
> but anyone hear when NEW HD Channels might be added ?
> 
> 
> YES I know they have trouble getting current ones available in all areas or those do get them not to have trouble getting them at night when you get the screen saying..
> 
> 
> Not Available try again...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes its more important to make sure EVERYONE is able to get whats currently available in HD..
> 
> 
> but just curious what might be added at some point



Look here periodically :
http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngNotices.html


----------



## Goldenager62

I was driving through Amherst today and saw Time Warner putting up new cable on the telephone poles.


----------



## STEELERSRULE

Not sure if people are aware of this or not in the Cleveland TWC and Western PA TWC area, but the BASEBALL EXTRA INNINGS PACKAGE/CHANNELS are FREE for this week, and maybe into next week. Not sure how long.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

just an update on my direct/dish network/twc situation that you guys assisted me with a few weeks ago.


just got off the phone with directv. the guy initially wanted me to renew my contract by giving me a dvr upgrade, and throwing some discounts at me.


i declined, and he still offered to renew some discounts and add some programming.


so for 69.23 a month, i have 1 HD DVR and 1 HD Receiver, and pretty much all the HD programming I want/need. it seemed like a lot of people hated having TWC but went with them because of price, if anyone needs any advice on how to maximize your deals with directv, feel free to send me a PM.


thanks for talking me out of time warner. it doesnt sound like it would have been worth the 10 dollars in savings per month.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *STEELERSRULE* /forum/post/18458504
> 
> 
> Not sure if people are aware of this or not in the Cleveland TWC and Western PA TWC area, but the BASEBALL EXTRA INNINGS PACKAGE/CHANNELS are FREE for this week, and maybe into next week. Not sure how long.



That ends tonight. Starting tomorrow if you want to watch you'll have to buy the package.


It will be free again after the All Star break for 1 week too.


----------



## Too_Many_options

Anyone else getting black screen with "please wait" .

This happens between shows even when you do not switch stations.

Also lots more freezes. during shows

all issues are on HD channels TWC .

These things are occurring all the time since the last upgrade.

many calls to TWC all they say is to boot the box (doesn't help).

In fact after one reboot the box did not accept 4 digit channel numbers.

A re -re -re boot helped


----------



## hookbill

Not that it's important to me really, but TiVo has still got the same line up in the 400's for the the HD channels. I think they have switched everything else out.


Let's say there are about 500 to 1000 TiVo's out there, it's a small number to TWC. There must be a issue getting the switch from SARA to Navigator. I know that it can be loaded from the start with Navigator because other TiVo owners have reported getting the new lineup. I'd just like to see them do it and get it over with. Also I'm kind of hoping that maybe with Navigator I won't have to call in once a month to get my tuning adapter rebooted.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18470230
> 
> 
> Not that it's important to me really, but TiVo has still got the same line up in the 400's for the the HD channels. I think they have switched everything else out.



As long as you have guide data and recordings work, consider yourself lucky!










Makes me wish I had a Tivo right now, so I could still find my damn HD channels.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/18470215
> 
> 
> Anyone else getting black screen with "please wait" .
> 
> This happens between shows even when you do not switch stations.
> 
> Also lots more freezes. during shows
> 
> all issues are on HD channels TWC .
> 
> These things are occurring all the time since the last upgrade.
> 
> many calls to TWC all they say is to boot the box (doesn't help).
> 
> In fact after one reboot the box did not accept 4 digit channel numbers.
> 
> A re -re -re boot helped



I didn't watch a whole lot of cable this weekend, but I did notice a significant amount of freezing and stuttering, even on the HD locals. Rebooting the box didn't seem to make a difference. Come to think of it, a few of the programs that were recorded earlier in the week were also less than perfect. However, I don't recall experiencing the 'please wait' notice.


----------



## Gary16

Big goals in a big market for Time Warner executive

By Shaheen Samavati, The Plain Dealer

April 11, 2010, 7:23AM




Vin Zachariah took over as Time Warner Cable's regional vice president of operations for Northeast Ohio and Western Pennsylvania in October. It is one of the company's largest business units, with 2,500 employees. Before taking the reins locally, the former investment banker and Air Force captain held several other regional management posts within Time Warner Cable. These are excerpts from his chat with Plain Dealer reporter Shaheen Samavati.


The Question: What are you goals for your new job?


The Answer: We have a great team. We have just got to keep pushing it forward. We have a lot of challenges in our business, competitive pressures. We know we've got to be better every day. Like most businesses, we want to keep growing.


The Question: What's one of the more memorable situations you've faced as a manager?


The Answer: Soon after I started my first job with Time Warner as vice president of operations in Jackson, Miss., Hurricane Katrina hit. We were a significant distance inland, but it was still a hurricane when it hit us. So most of Jackson was out of power for about a week. It was amazing to see how folks responded in that kind of situation. For us, not only did we have our recovery effort, but [at the] same time we had all these people moving into our community from the coasts. So here we are trying to recover for our existing customers, and also take care of new customers. Our biggest issue down there was getting fuel. We were at the point of siphoning gas out of our own cars to give gas to our trucks to be able to run every day.


The Question: Television is something most people view as entertainment. Why was it so important to restore service quickly?


The Answer: Our services, television, Internet and phone, are vital communication tools. I interview every potential management person in this business unit, and one of the things I always talk to them about is to just recognize the kind of recovery efforts we need. If we're ever in that kind of situation, the expectation is we're going to be up as quick as we can just like the power company, just like utilities and the other essential services. That's how we treat it around here.


The Question: What is your biggest challenge as a manager?


The Answer: Getting everybody to work in synch and on the same page is the hard part. When I was in a smaller operation, like in Mississippi, the sheer size allows you to go and be a part of the operating unit and deliver. What you learn is that as responsibilities grow, it becomes more challenging. What I always tell people is I try to run our business regardless of size. With about 1 million customers, we are the third-largest operation in Time Warner Cable, and we have to run it like an operation one-10th of our size.


The Question: How do you do that?


The Answer: It requires all of us, the entire management team, to be day-to-day focused. We have to be extremely alert and make sure we stay in front of the business. We can't be reactive, because in a big organization like ours, it becomes even harder to switch gears. So it requires all of us to be very engaged with our employees and with our customers.


The Question: What's an example?


The Answer: It's things like I have an office sitting 5 feet away from our customer service reps, so if something's going on, one of them will come to my door saying, 'Hey, this is what's happening.' It's that kind of stuff because that's frankly what our customers expect of us. Our customers don't care how big our operation is. Big or small, they want to know that when they're dealing with us, they're the most important thing, and they are.


The Question: With such a spread-out business, where do you spend your time?


The Answer: I spend time here, at our call center in Garfield Heights. I also have offices in downtown Cleveland and Akron that I spend time at each week. Today, I was down at our call center in Canton. When I'm not in conference calls or meetings, I'm going to be out with our folks because they're the ones who tell me what's really happening.


The Question: How has your educational background, including an MBA from Yale, helped you in your management career?


The Answer: The only way to grow in this business is to do it. There's no way you can simulate that. In order to be successful, you're going to have to make a ton of mistakes and then learn from that. But that background does give you a foundation on some functional areas that you absolutely need to have. I tell everybody in our business, we all need to be able to talk accounting, whether you're an accountant or not. Because at the end of the day, we've got to make our numbers, so we need to understand what the numbers are.



© 2010 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18470230
> 
> 
> Not that it's important to me really, but TiVo has still got the same line up in the 400's for the the HD channels. I think they have switched everything else out.
> 
> 
> Let's say there are about 500 to 1000 TiVo's out there, it's a small number to TWC. There must be a issue getting the switch from SARA to Navigator. I know that it can be loaded from the start with Navigator because other TiVo owners have reported getting the new lineup. I'd just like to see them do it and get it over with. Also I'm kind of hoping that maybe with Navigator I won't have to call in once a month to get my tuning adapter rebooted.



Hi Hook,

Don't count on it. I have Navigator on my 3090 here in Ridgeville, but I still have to call in for my TA hit every 30 days without fail.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18470760
> 
> 
> Hi Hook,
> 
> Don't count on it. I have Navigator on my 3090 here in Ridgeville, but I still have to call in for my TA hit every 30 days without fail.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I have navigator on the SA 8300 too. But the TA is still running SARA. Is the guide you have in your area. In the 1000's for your TiVo?


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18470816
> 
> 
> I have navigator on the SA 8300 too. But the TA is still running SARA. Is the guide you have in your area. In the 1000's for your TiVo?



Yes, finally. I was having problems a few weeks ago, and you suggested to me to try the Franklin lineup. That seemed OK at first because the lineup did put all the HD

back to the 1000's with full guide discriptions. What I didn't notice, till a week or so later, that ch 1004 and 1009 were reversed in their lineup. I was wondering why some of my recordings were messed up. So last week I did a rescan back to Elyria/NR, and everything came back as It should be, with everything in the 1000's with full guide data.


Ben Music


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/18470215
> 
> 
> Anyone else getting black screen with "please wait" .
> 
> This happens between shows even when you do not switch stations.
> 
> Also lots more freezes. during shows
> 
> all issues are on HD channels TWC .
> 
> These things are occurring all the time since the last upgrade.
> 
> many calls to TWC all they say is to boot the box (doesn't help).
> 
> In fact after one reboot the box did not accept 4 digit channel numbers.
> 
> A re -re -re boot helped



+1


Just putting up with it for now. Never tried a reboot.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18471057
> 
> 
> Yes, finally. I was having problems a few weeks ago, and you suggested to me to try the Franklin lineup. That seemed OK at first because the lineup did put all the HD
> 
> back to the 1000's with full guide discriptions. What I didn't notice, till a week or so later, that ch 1004 and 1009 were reversed in their lineup. I was wondering why some of my recordings were messed up. So last week I did a rescan back to Elyria/NR, and everything came back as It should be, with everything in the 1000's with full guide data.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I think I mentioned a couple of channels would be off but I didn't know it was WOIO. Sorry.


----------



## scnrfrq

For those of you who are seeing your DVR hard drive fill up fast because of HD recordings, I can recommend this 1TB external drive from Walmart:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Iomega-345...Drive/13045896 


I have tried various drives, and this one works very well. You will need to have an 8300HD DVR for it to work. It won't work with the 8300HDC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18488242
> 
> 
> For those of you who are seeing your DVR hard drive fill up fast because of HD recordings, I can recommend this 1TB external drive from Walmart:
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Iomega-345...Drive/13045896
> 
> 
> I have tried various drives, and this one works very well. You will need to have an 8300HD DVR for it to work. It won't work with the 8300HDC.



Well the eSATA I had for my SA 8300 was made specifically for the SA 8300 and it was a major #fail.


To the best of my knowledge the ones recommended by SA are the "My DVR Expanders" which are the only ones that will work with TiVo.


And I think it's a shame that on a newer model of the SA 8300 you can't have an eSATA.


----------



## groebuck

I use a calvalry 1tb esata I got from amazon for 70 bucks works just fine with my 8300hdc


----------



## groebuck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18445958
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> I resemble that remark!
> 
> 
> Ray




I think because we were a comcast area that got traded to tw we have funny HD.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *groebuck* /forum/post/18493384
> 
> 
> I use a calvalry 1tb esata I got from amazon for 70 bucks works just fine with my 8300hdc



Do you have Navigator or Sara? I've never heard of an external drive working with the HDC and Navigator.


----------



## clevemkt

I have a SA4250HDC with TWC. It is feeding my HD "theatre" in the rec room just fine. I wanted to feed it's analog output into a nearby room (my workshop). According to TWC site, the "Cable Out" RF connector "...sends analog audio and video signals to a TV....". It also says "Output 2" "...to another set of inputs (composite) on your TV." Well, it doesn't. I get an error code about DVI. A call to TWC got me nowhere. Anyone doing this? Is there a menu to switch the output to NTSC? If this does function this way, does it convert all of their SD digital signals to analog?


----------



## clevemkt

Re: my previous... seems that the composite and analog RF don't function with the HDMI cable to the HDTV plugged into the STB output. Swell.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18494990
> 
> 
> Do you have Navigator or Sara? I've never heard of an external drive working with the HDC and Navigator.



Does anyone still have SARA? The conversion is presumably supposed to be complete, and I'm curious if there are any stragglers out there...


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/18498773
> 
> 
> Re: my previous... seems that the composite and analog RF don't function with the HDMI cable to the HDTV plugged into the STB output. Swell.



I had no problem using component, RF and composite outputs at the same time. HDMI has to be the issue. It's really a PITA, hence the reason why I never used it.










TBH, with what TWC gives you as "programming", the component cables provided a decent picture. If you'd like to use that STB to feed other TV, I'd switch to component for the HDTV.


----------



## silverballmania

I'm a new TiVo user - just got a Tivo Premiere with lifetime. Had a TWC "tech" over today to install the cablecard. He had no idea what he was doing. He installed it, called someone then told me I need a tuning adapter and then he left. I'm basically left with no channels. Most of the basic stations (2-98) hardly come through - get no signal for most. The HD stations are located in the 400's (which I read from other people here is how it is for now). I do not get any of the digital channels.


So what are my options? Do I need the tuning adapter? I'm not a happy camper at this point...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/18499581
> 
> 
> So what are my options? Do I need the tuning adapter?



You do need a tuning adaptor as many of the channels are SDV and require a two-way connection to set up the stream for them. And the HD channels will remain in the 400s for awhile for STA users, so this is expected behavior.


----------



## silverballmania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18499716
> 
> 
> You do need a tuning adaptor as many of the channels are SDV and require a two-way connection to set up the stream for them. And the HD channels will remain in the 400s for awhile for STA users, so this is expected behavior.



Any idea about the channels not coming through for 2-98? Is it expected to get no signal on those without the tuning adapter? They get a signal for a few seconds, then freeze up. I get the feeling that the cable card is bad or not installed properly.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/18499758
> 
> 
> Any idea about the channels not coming through for 2-98? Is it expected to get no signal on those without the tuning adapter? They get a signal for a few seconds, then freeze up. I get the feeling that the cable card is bad or not installed properly.



This sounds like a classic signal level issue. Your Tivo is probably receiving the digital counterparts of the analog 2-98 channels via channel mapping, and it might not have enough signal to produce a stable picture. This is a separate issue from the cablecard.


Try the following steps -


- Remove any splitters between the incoming feed and the Tivo.

- Make sure all F connectors are tight.

- Remove any push-on F connectors and throw them in the garbage.


You can also try hooking up an analog TV in place of the Tivo and see what the picture quality looks like on analog (non-mapped) channels 2-98. If you get snowy analog pix, your digital pics aren't going to work.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *silverballmania* /forum/post/18499581
> 
> 
> I'm a new TiVo user - *just got a Tivo Premiere with lifetime.* Had a TWC "tech" over today to install the cablecard. He had no idea what he was doing. He installed it, called someone then told me I need a tuning adapter and then he left. I'm basically left with no channels. Most of the basic stations (2-98) hardly come through - get no signal for most. The HD stations are located in the 400's (which I read from other people here is how it is for now). I do not get any of the digital channels.
> 
> 
> So what are my options? Do I need the tuning adapter? I'm not a happy camper at this point...



Oh man I feel sorry for you.







That's devastating.










Have you ever tried OTA (over the air) DTV? In terms of PQ and general service quality(those tuning adapters/SDV/TWC in general SUCK) you might be better off in the long run with it, since you have the lifetime service plan.







OTA + Tivo sounds like a good combination, I've thought about it before myself, but I won't spend that much on a DVR and service.


----------



## silverballmania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18499934
> 
> 
> This sounds like a classic signal level issue. Your Tivo is probably receiving the digital counterparts of the analog 2-98 channels via channel mapping, and it might not have enough signal to produce a stable picture. This is a separate issue from the cablecard.
> 
> 
> Try the following steps -
> 
> 
> - Remove any splitters between the incoming feed and the Tivo.
> 
> - Make sure all F connectors are tight.
> 
> - Remove any push-on F connectors and throw them in the garbage.
> 
> 
> You can also try hooking up an analog TV in place of the Tivo and see what the picture quality looks like on analog (non-mapped) channels 2-98. If you get snowy analog pix, your digital pics aren't going to work.



The cables are fine. I re-wired my whole house about 2 years ago. I had the cable company put all the ends on and test every jack. Guess I'll get the tuning adapter and see what happens. If it doesn't work, I'll have them out again until it does.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clevemkt* /forum/post/18498773
> 
> 
> Re: my previous... seems that the composite and analog RF don't function with the HDMI cable to the HDTV plugged into the STB output. Swell.



This is very common in consumer video products. If HDMI is being used then all other outputs are turned off.

Guessing it might be HDCP related.


----------



## hookbill

I've never heard of an HDMI port dying. I would think more likely a bad cable.


Anyway as CK mentioned its going to be some time before the TA gets Navigator. I think what that means is that any new HD channels TW adds on we wont get.


I hear several weeks before the TA gets Navigator.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18499716
> 
> 
> You do need a tuning adaptor as many of the channels are SDV and require a two-way connection to set up the stream for them. And the HD channels will remain in the 400s for awhile for STA users, so this is expected behavior.



I'm using a TivoHD and TA here and my HD channels have been in the 1000s since the day TW switched. I was under the impression the the HD channels being in the 400s was something specific to ex-Adelphia areas only. It certainly doesn't apply to my area.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18503536
> 
> 
> I've never heard of an HDMI port dying. I would think more likely a bad cable.



Like Hookbill said, cables are a frequent cause of HDMI problems. Two other common causes are -


- Hotplug-detect failures.


- HDCP failures.


To see if it's a hotplug-detect problem, turn everything off, disconnect the HDMI cable and reconnect it, power on TV first, then turn on the Tivo. This is one way to reinitiate a hotplug-detect sequence and subsequent encryption handshake.


If it's an HDCP failure you're supposed to receive a denial message on the screen, usually something like "Unauthorized, use your analog connections instead." However sometimes the connection just fails with no status message. If this is the case, check with your TV set manufacturer to see if there's a firmware upgrade available for the set.


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18503536
> 
> 
> I've never heard of an HDMI port dying. I would think more likely a bad cable.



FYI, I had the HDMI port die on one of my DVD players (and not an inexpensive one). All other outputs still work fine.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/18505310
> 
> 
> FYI, I had the HDMI port die on one of my DVD players (and not an inexpensive one). All other outputs still work fine.



They do indeed die. Probably more frequently than other outputs (analog, digital coax, digital optical, composite, component, s-video).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/18505722
> 
> 
> They do indeed die. Probably more frequently than other outputs (analog, digital coax, digital optical, composite, component, s-video).



lol, I got to eat my own words. I forgot the pos SA 8300 I have has a HDMI output that's blown. I completely forgot about that one.


Let me then say that as far as it happening to a TiVo it's a first that I've heard of it.


Anything electrical can break, TiVo is not immune.


----------



## WilliamR

I am so disgusted by this new navigator and the upgrade. Get what mine keeps doing now (8300 HDC) If I fastforward a show sometimes (multiple times a week), when I hit play it doesn't start playing, it keeps fastforwarding. It keeps going through the recorded show, in fast forward mode no matter what I do. And get this, if I go up to the box and hit the power button, it turns off all the lights on the box like it is suppose to but the show is still fast forwarding on the TV. TV off, box off, TV back on, show still fastforwarding. It never stops, even without the power, it is freaking crazy. I have pushed every button I can and powered it off, nothing, I have to actually yank the power cord from it to reset the box. Unbelievable.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18510112
> 
> 
> I am so disgusted by this new navigator and the upgrade. Get what mine keeps doing now (8300 HDC) If I fastforward a show sometimes (multiple times a week), when I hit play it doesn't start playing, it keeps fastforwarding. It keeps going through the recorded show, in fast forward mode no matter what I do. And get this, if I go up to the box and hit the power button, it turns off all the lights on the box like it is suppose to but the show is still fast forwarding on the TV. TV off, box off, TV back on, show still fastforwarding. It never stops, even without the power, it is freaking crazy. I have pushed every button I can and powered it off, nothing, I have to actually yank the power cord from it to reset the box. Unbelievable.



I don't believe the problem is Navigator per se. It really sounds like a hardware problem somewhere. It might also be an "HDC" problem of some kind & how it interfaces with Navigator. Navigator on my 8300HD (non-C version) has been very solid. There are 1 or 2 things I miss from SARA, but so far, there have been more plusses than minuses. I'd check on replacing the 8300HDC. There may very well be a problem with your remote, too.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18510112
> 
> 
> I am so disgusted by this new navigator and the upgrade. Get what mine keeps doing now (8300 HDC) If I fastforward a show sometimes (multiple times a week), when I hit play it doesn't start playing, it keeps fastforwarding. It keeps going through the recorded show, in fast forward mode no matter what I do. And get this, if I go up to the box and hit the power button, it turns off all the lights on the box like it is suppose to but the show is still fast forwarding on the TV. TV off, box off, TV back on, show still fastforwarding. It never stops, even without the power, it is freaking crazy. I have pushed every button I can and powered it off, nothing, I have to actually yank the power cord from it to reset the box. Unbelievable.



I have had issues with the 8300HDC too. I described them back in post # 22063. A bit different than yours but DVR related none the less since the upgrade. We already had navigator before the latest update though.


I do not think its remote related. I have my universal remote and the original remote and have had the FF issue like yours once and could not get either remote to stop it.


Ray


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/18505310
> 
> 
> FYI, I had the HDMI port die on one of my DVD players (and not an inexpensive one). All other outputs still work fine.



I had an HDMI port die on my Playstation 3. Under Sony's flat rate repair fees, I had to pay $150 to have it fixed.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18511543
> 
> 
> I had an HDMI port die on my Playstation 3. Under Sony's flat rate repair fees, I had to pay $150 to have it fixed.



If I recall correctly, HDMI uses the LVDS/TMDS signaling format, whicih is a ~300mv p-p signal. This is fairly small, meaning that the silicon on the HDMI port is fairly sensitive to small signals, including unwanted "signals" like static electricity. While I've never blown an HDMI port myself, I can see how they'd be a little on the vulnerable side, clamping diodes notwithstanding.


----------



## nickdawg

Trust me, those problems are not hardware related issues. The very same 8300HD box running Passport vs. running Navigator were two entirely different animals. Same thing with the 8300HDC SARA vs. ODN. Navigator, despite the constant software upgrades, is still full of bugs. One of my favourite of all time is when you turn the STB power off but the picture/sound continue and the only way to fix it is a reboot. I've seen that since mid 2007 and I once had that problem some time last year. What a mess!!


----------



## hookbill

I haven't verified this with my contact at TWC but I'm hearing that soon TWC is doing a software update to clear up this constant calling about the T.A. In my bi weekly call with credit card support the rep told me that he knows this is going to happen, knows what date it's going to be but he didn't feel comfortable releasing the exact date.


This is great news, if it's true. I spent over an hour this morning trying to get my tuner adapter restarted. The regular CSR said "oh it says we need to replace the tuner adapter" and I said no and told him to contact cable card support. It be great to be free of having to do that twice a month.


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18521677
> 
> 
> I'm hearing that soon TWC is doing a software update to clear up this constant calling about the T.A. In my bi weekly call with credit card support the rep told me that he knows this is going to happen, knows what date it's going to be but he didn't feel comfortable releasing the exact date.
> 
> 
> This is great news, if it's true. I spent over an hour this morning trying to get my tuner adapter restarted.



Not having my TiiVo HD and/or TA die on an at least monthly basis would be a fine thing indeed. I would actually not care whether my HD channels were in the 400s or 1000s if they just fixed this.


----------



## nickdawg

haha, you TWC people are funny.










*points and laughs at TWC customers*










PULL THE PLUG!!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/18523992
> 
> 
> Not having my TiiVo HD and/or TA die on an at least monthly basis would be a fine thing indeed. I would actually not care whether my HD channels were in the 400s or 1000s if they just fixed this.



I could care less about the channels being where they are.


I take it nickdawg quit TWC. Good for you nickdawg.


----------



## Inundated

What will nickdawg have to talk about now?


----------



## mbclev

I've just noticed on the TWC Guide web site that the community of Congress in Wayne County finally has digital cable. (That town, I think, only had 14 or so channels in its lineup when I mentioned it as one of the areas without digital cable a while back.)

http://www.twclineup.com/lineups0210...neCongress.pdf 


EDIT: I've just checked the earlier PDF file of Congress's lineup that I saved on January 31, and it had only 13 channels (from 2 to 14). TWC must have upgraded that area between then and now.


----------



## awyeah

Does anyone have any clue as to when the channel lineup will be updated for TiVo/TA customers? I'm tired of having to remember two different lineups


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18534695
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any clue as to when the channel lineup will be updated for TiVo/TA customers? I'm tired of having to remember two different lineups



Yeah. I was told that It wont happen for several weeks.


I personally think it may be months before they convert the TA. I think its probably something they never even thought about.


Hopefully I'm wrong. But I was told by my contact at TWC several weeks.


----------



## GregF2

Does anyone ever have their sound go in and out and then have to reset the cable box? It has happened to twice this week. Very annoying!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/18528344
> 
> 
> What will nickdawg have to talk about now?



About the beautiful, clear pictures I get on all my TVs---for free.










About all the unnecessary stress I eliminated.










About the extra $130 in my pocket every month.
























About the extra time i have now that I don't watch banal, retarded crap on cable just to "kill time".


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18524163
> 
> 
> I could care less about the channels being where they are.
> 
> 
> I take it nickdawg quit TWC. Good for you nickdawg.



Yep.










I'm pretty damn happy. At first I was worried, I was only going to cancel the cable box. I considered keeping just the "basic cable". Ultimately I decided against that when I realised that I would be paying for *analog* TV, in 2010!!







And I wouldn't get to watch anything in HD anymore, unless I used OTA for the local channels. Why the hell should I pay TWC for non-digital cable without a box, and still have to use an antenna? I can use my antenna for free!!







I honestly don't NEED any cable channel and I don't miss any of the shows I can't watch anymore.


----------



## Inundated

nickdawg, you can get the local stations in HD with TWC's analog-only service and a TV that does QAM. They even pass along PSIP now...they now have 43.2 next to 43.1, and they have added PSIP for 49.1-4 and 55.1 as well.


But overall, I can understand your point. I was close to making the same decision, but I can't get 8 and 19 downstairs on a regular basis OTA.


----------



## hookbill

The ironic thing about this however is nickdawg may be forced to pick a provider sometime in the future. That is if television networks have their way and shut down OTA transmissions.


The other thing is that you do miss out on a lot of great programming. I know for example that nickdawg had some favorites on USA and FX. I suppose he can buy the DVD if he wants to keep up with these shows however. But for me there is just too much more on cable I would miss, like MLB Extra Innings, ESPN, and the above mentioned channels and FX.


Did they put up a fight for your business nickdawg or did they act like they didn't care?


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18540247
> 
> 
> The other thing is that you do miss out on a lot of great programming. I know for example that nickdawg had some favorites on USA and FX. I suppose he can buy the DVD if he wants to keep up with these shows however.



Netflix is great for this kind of thing too. They have every television show imaginable, and many of them stream directly to compatible set top boxes. I've thought several times about dropping cable in favor of increasing the number of discs I can have out at a time.


----------



## groebuck

9.95 month for expanded hulu access - for free you get like the most 5 recent episodes for 9.95 you get everything.


in reality probably 80% of what I record and a lot I don't but I wish I did (like the simpsons) is all available on hulu.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18540247
> 
> 
> The ironic thing about this however is nickdawg may be forced to pick a provider sometime in the future. That is if television networks have their way and shut down OTA transmissions.



If they try to shut down OTA, this dawg is barking.







I'll be taking my fight to the streets and become the new "OTA lobbyist".











> Quote:
> The other thing is that you do miss out on a lot of great programming. I know for example that nickdawg had some favorites on USA and FX. I suppose he can buy the DVD if he wants to keep up with these shows however. But for me there is just too much more on cable I would miss, like MLB Extra Innings, ESPN, and the above mentioned channels and FX.



Actually you don't. Take "In Plain Sight" for example. I watched the first episode, recorded the second episode(because I wasn't home). I never watched the second episode I recorded or watched or recorded the third episode at all. I mean, Wednesday night 10pm, I'd rather watch SVU anyway.







Other than that, there's really nothing else I can think of that is good on cable. I know "Rescue Me" is starting again soon, but even that is not as good as it used to be. Plus it will most likely be in syndication soon, WEWS used to have syndicated episodes of "The Shield" on Saturday and Sunday nights. Missing something is really not the end of the world. You'd be surprised how much banal crap you watch "because it's on" with all those channels.



> Quote:
> Did they put up a fight for your business nickdawg or did they act like they didn't care?



They really don't care at all. Their "deals" all involve buying their internet, phone or both services on top of the TV service, and I wasn't having any of that. I find it really sad that the CABLE company doesn't really care about you unless you buy stuff other than just CABLE. I mean really, I"m canceling your service because it blows, and you expect me to trust my phone and internet to your company? lol


----------



## Inundated

49.1 has disappeared from the TWC ex-Adelphia QAM lineup. 49.2-4 are still there, and according to the digital cable lineup, the local end of the TWC system now carries them in the 900s, but not 49.1. (They do, of course, still carry analog 9.)


I wonder what the problem is with the TWC Cleveland-based system and WEAO's HD feed? Did WVIZ put up a stink? 49's HD feed is offered in the Akron/Canton area, but not the old Adelphia system out of Cleveland, for whatever reason.


----------



## awyeah

Is anyone else having issues with HD channels tonight?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18574033
> 
> 
> Is anyone else having issues with HD channels tonight?



Nope.































Except for some weather related issues with WOIO's puney digital signal, everything's been fine. Even watching The Simpsons on WJW.


----------



## Goldenager62

I thought I would post to see how everybody is doing.

We are still having channels going in and out, but not as bad as before. There seems to be a slight improvement every week. Maybe, just maybe they will get it right some day.


----------



## greenpjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/18538466
> 
> 
> Does anyone ever have their sound go in and out and then have to reset the cable box? It has happened to twice this week. Very annoying!



Yes. My guess is it happens when the cable box reboots while the receiver (or TV if no receiver) is off. It has nothing to negotiate with so it ends up using some parameters that cause the sound go out every few minutes. Rebooting while the device at the other end of HDMI cable is turned on always fixes it. That's just a guess. Anyone know better?


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

Does anyone know who to complain to about this? The NWS *** Tornado Watch *** banner has been overlaying all content (even recorded and start over programs) since early this afternoon. The alert doesn't even apply to my geographical area, and from what I can tell from NOAA, it's not even valid anymore. TWC says that they can do absolutely nothing about it and didn't offer much information regarding whom to file a complaint with.


----------



## hookbill

Not much you can do. Just be an Angry Penguine, that's about it.


----------



## nickdawg

haha, TWC is cluttering the screen!! Sucks to have cable now!!

















Anyway, something cool on OTA. FOX must have updated their splicer at WJW because Hose is on tonight, in HD, with a weather map and crawl over it!! They used to have to drop to SDTV because the HD feed could not be touched by local stations. Now they're showing stupid local weather coverage, but FOX HD programming was just on before.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/18601473
> 
> 
> Does anyone know who to complain to about this? The NWS *** Tornado Watch *** banner has been overlaying all content (even recorded and start over programs) since early this afternoon. The alert doesn't even apply to my geographical area, and from what I can tell from NOAA, it's not even valid anymore. TWC says that they can do absolutely nothing about it and didn't offer much information regarding whom to file a complaint with.



Boy was that annoying (especially the grating noise that covered the TV sound). What I did was to switch my TV to an input that bypassed the cable box, so I could get fewer channels but no banner.


----------



## orange5814

Seriously, this weather banner is complete BS. Someone point me in the right direction as to who I can complain to about this. Like the previous poster stated, this waring isn't even for my county. I hate you Time Warner.


End of rant.


----------



## toby10

Are you people suggesting that the human race would survive without intrusive and silly weather warnings on our TV's?


Certainly you are not suggesting that people in NEO need not be warned of spring thunderstorms.

I suppose you would also suggest that we NEO residents could make it to next spring without being warned of impending snow in January?


You cannot be serious! Have you no compassion for your fellow man?


I'll check in later to read your retractions to such nonsense, surely you can redeem yourselves with a proper heartfelt retraction to your outrageous postings.

I'd suggest going to confession as well.


Meanwhile, I'm going to place my electric clock radio into the bathtub where my young children are bathing.

There is no such warning on the device not to do so, so I can only surmise it is ok to do so.


----------



## Inundated

I don't recall seeing a TWC generated weather banner during the day on Friday. I saw the local stations doing their banners and mini radars (who can SEE the details on that, even on an HD set?)...but didn't see TWC doing it.


Perhaps I didn't see it because it was inserted by the box, and I'm currently box-less.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/18602967
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm going to place my electric clock radio into the bathtub where my young children are bathing.
> 
> There is no such warning on the device not to do so, so I can only surmise it is ok to do so.



Nope, you can't do that...Mark Johnson mentioned last night that it wasn't a good idea.


(I'm kidding, of course, but he warned of just about everything short of falling toads yesterday.)


Oh, by the way, heads up...there's this white-colored substance which falls from the sky...you'll start seeing it as early as October or November here.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/18605179
> 
> 
> I don't recall seeing a TWC generated weather banner during the day on Friday. I saw the local stations doing their banners and mini radars (who can SEE the details on that, even on an HD set?)...but didn't see TWC doing it.
> 
> 
> Perhaps I didn't see it because it was inserted by the box, and I'm currently box-less.



Yes, that's right. My boxless TV had no banner except from the local stations, while the HDTV with the cablebox had a bright red "TORNADO WATCH" crawl across the top of the screen and a continuous, loud, grating noise over the audio\\, and it went on for hours and hours...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18605245
> 
> 
> Yes, that's right. My boxless TV had no banner except from the local stations, while the HDTV with the cablebox had a bright red "TORNADO WATCH" crawl across the top of the screen and a continuous, loud, grating noise over the audio\\, and it went on for hours and hours...



We don't get them on TiVo either. Just cable companies boxes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/18605179
> 
> 
> Perhaps I didn't see it because it was inserted by the box, and I'm currently box-less.



Are you planning on joining the ranks of the OTA only people?? Or is the box just broken?


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18605301
> 
> 
> We don't get them on TiVo either. Just cable companies boxes.



Hook, I've seen that banner on my TiVo - it was on there this morning when I turned it on (had to hit clear to get rid of it).


I've also seen it happen on content that was recorded when there was a watch.


I wouldn't mind knowing more about how that stuff works and how the signal gets fed into the cable system.


----------



## hookbill

I've seen it but I don't believe it was on my TiVo. And how could hitting clear on the TiVo remote clear a cable message? Doesnt make sense. Well I believe you saw it so I must be wrong. I honestly havent seen it myself. Interesting.


----------



## awyeah

I don't think it's actually broadcast as part of the picture. It's almost like it's a separate 'command' or out-of-band data that gets sent to the TiVo. Like the cable headend is telling all boxes "Hey, display this warning!" and then the STBs themselves are responsible for how it actually gets displayed. Probably similar concept to closed captioning (except not optional).


----------



## Inundated

I am both without box and without TiVo right now (long story). Contemplating if I'll stay without a box. As mentioned, I get the local HD stations via clear QAM, and am not really missing the HD stuff on the cable channels.


The TiVo explanation is easy. The Series 2 (non-HD) boxes get fed by the cable boxes, assuming you have them. The messages, if you see them, are coming from the cable box.


Meanwhile, hookbill has an HD TiVo, which uses cable cards...and doesn't use the TWC SA/whatever boxes.


----------



## awyeah

I'm also using an HD TiVo. I really do think it's an out-of-band message.


Anyway, as for getting rid of the boxes... it would be really nice if the basic cable channels came through clear QAM


----------



## Goldenager62

Another weekend and HD channels not coming in. Waiting on the tech to show up again. I have only a handful of weekends since December that I haven't had problems.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18606813
> 
> 
> Another weekend and HD channels not coming in. Waiting on the tech to show up again. I have only a handful of weekends since December that I haven't had problems.



I had a few HD channels not working yesterday. Fortunately, I also had a tech out.


Basically, we determined that a particular frequency wasn't working properly.


As we all (should) know, with SDV, channels can get assigned to different frequencies.


Yesterday, all the channels that were pixellated for me were the ones coming in on 573MHz and 567MHz. But all the others seemed to be fine.


I'm going to begin going to the diagnostic screen whenever I see a channel that has interference and I will log the frequency it's on.


My issue has been escalated.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18606980
> 
> 
> I had a few HD channels not working yesterday. Fortunately, I also had a tech out.
> 
> 
> Basically, we determined that a particular frequency wasn't working properly.
> 
> 
> As we all (should) know, with SDV, channels can get assigned to different frequencies.
> 
> 
> Yesterday, all the channels that were pixellated for me were the ones coming in on 573MHz and 567MHz. But all the others seemed to be fine.
> 
> 
> I'm going to begin going to the diagnostic screen whenever I see a channel that has interference and I will log the frequency it's on.
> 
> 
> My issue has been escalated.




I agree, there seem to have been a problem on the frequency that the Weather Channel HD was on. Lots of freeze ups on Friday.


----------



## awyeah

Going forward... keep track of what frequencies are causing problems. To find the frequency of the channel that you're on (this works at least on my SA boxes):


Hold down the "VOL+" and "INFO" buttons on the front of the box for a few seconds.


Right on that front page, you'll see "Inband Network" - and then a frequency and the QAM type. Keep track of the frequency of all the channels that are failing.


There are two listings there (Inband Network-1 and Inband Network-2). Inband Network-2 is only populated if you're using a DVR with two tuners. I'm not really sure how to determine which tuner you're currently watching on the DVR since I don't have one.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18606813
> 
> 
> Another weekend and HD channels not coming in. Waiting on the tech to show up again. I have only a handful of weekends since December that I haven't had problems.



Tech didn't show up yet, was suppose to be here by noon. I did get $20 off my bill.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18607433
> 
> 
> Tech didn't show up yet, was suppose to be here by noon. I did get $20 off my bill.



Cable guy finally showed up. He didn't do much, but he did admit there was a bandwidth problem in the area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18607784
> 
> 
> Cable guy finally showed up. He didn't do much, but he did admit there was a bandwidth problem in the area.



What does that mean? A bandwidth problem in the area? Then they should fix it, not just shrug their shoulders and say, "yeah theirs a problem in the area."


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18605245
> 
> 
> Yes, that's right. My boxless TV had no banner except from the local stations, while the HDTV with the cablebox had a bright red "TORNADO WATCH" crawl across the top of the screen and a continuous, loud, grating noise over the audio\\, and it went on for hours and hours...



The alarm noise makes the whole system worthless. During the storm the weather people were giving storm information, but the continuous alarm made the station unwatchable!


On another note:

A little later in the evening one of the stations ran a banner "For current storm information go to WXXX.com" but in my neighborhood many homes had no working connection to the web, even if they still had power. I thought that OTA stations had responsibilities during emergencies.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/18608623
> 
> 
> A little later in the evening one of the stations ran a banner "For current storm information go to WXXX.com" but in my neighborhood many homes had no working connection to the web, even if they still had power. I thought that OTA stations had responsibilities during emergencies.



Kevin, can you PM me with the call letters of the station that did that?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18613330
> 
> 
> Kevin, can you PM me with the call letters of the station that did that?


*WKYC*!! It was *WKYC*!! They always do that. They run their weather crawl at warp speed, one time through, telling people to visit their website. It always says "for the latest forecast information visit *wkyc*.com"


I don't see why the OP tried to "censor" the station's name.







Anyone watching TV knows who it is.


----------



## rick490

I actually prefer the alerts over the cable box to the crawls on the station. At least they arent' recorded with the program the way station crawls are. The other night we had a couple, and I simply paused the dvr during the alert (the alert continued). When the alert finished, I resumed the playback.


----------



## hookbill

You can probably do that even if you're watching live tv, provided you have a DVR. Pretty smart.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18614996
> 
> 
> You can probably do that even if you're watching live tv, provided you have a DVR. Pretty smart.



It maskes sense from a consumer-friendliness standpoint to treat all text crawls such as weather bulletins as an overlay, inserted at the edge device, rather than embedded into program video, ruining their recording. This would give the viewer some control over whether that crawl gets recorded over their favorite movie. It's easy enough to allow the viewer to control parameters like font size and color, background color, crawl speed etc, yet still allowing the broadcaster to prevent the viewer from turning off critical EAS bulletins. I think that this will happen someday, now that the digital infrastructure is mostly in place to enable this.


----------



## nickdawg

Thank you Johnson!! That was some really classy work on the part of channel 5 to tape delay Dancing with the Stars and Lost, then JiP "V" at 10:17pm. I suppose we should be glad that they even bothered to show all of DWTS and Lost, since there was 15 minutes of unnecessary squawking about weather, weather not even in the area at one point, from 8 to 8:15. You may advertise as "first in Ohio", but you're last in class, again.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18619532
> 
> 
> Thank you Johnson!! That was some really classy work on the part of channel 5 to tape delay Dancing with the Stars and Lost, then JiP "V" at 10:17pm. I suppose we should be glad that they even bothered to show all of DWTS and Lost, since there was 15 minutes of unnecessary squawking about weather, weather not even in the area at one point, from 8 to 8:15. You may advertise as "first in Ohio", but you're last in class, again.



+1, but it wasn't hard to figure out at 10:17 who cut up Lisa's face.


----------



## Goldenager62

Hey,

We have gone three days without any problems. That is a new record.


----------



## hookbill

Speak for yourself, 2 days ago I was on the phone with the most clueless rep trying to get my tuner adapter connected. I ended up going to cable card support.


The rep was so clueless she actually offered me the 800 number, which they don't want you to call directly.


Cable Card Rep told me they are trying to narrow down the problem. I said everyone I know on line that has a TiVo has an issue with the tuner adapter about once a month. Since I have two of them I call bi weekly now. He said, OK talk to you in two weeks.


Just kidding. He did find it interesting that the problem was that regular and told me he was shooting off some information about my boxes to their engineering department. I don't expect much to happen.


----------



## Inundated

I was at my uncle's house the other night...he has an HD box, and I heard the horrible EAS noise for the Tornado Watch of the Week. I don't think it stuck, though.


----------



## mnowlin

Last Friday, my TA started with it's monthly eight-blink thing... (Wondering if my TA is a woman.) Didn't have time to mess with it for a few days. When I finally got around to it, I pulled the USB and power cords, powered it up, waited, connected USB, everything the CC group usually has me do. Still had the eight-blink problem (as expected, since they didn't send a hit.) Got sidetracked...


The weird thing is a few hours later, I saw that the LED was on solid. No SDV channels yet, but pulled the USB cord for a few seconds - when I plugged it back in, I got the "TA has been connected" message on the Tivo, and all of the SDV channels were back.


I'll have to try this again when it bombs out in a few weeks. I'm wondering if TWC has made some changes that may end up actually fixing this problem...


----------



## Goldenager62

I had a tech come to my home last week, because I was having trouble over the weekend with SDV. He told me, yeah I know I live down the street from you and I have the same problems.


----------



## WilliamR

Here is my latest problem and it makes me want to smash my DVR to bits with a sledgehammer.


At, lets say 2 PM, I want to record a show that night. I setup the recording through the guide and everything works okay. The show is highlighted in red, it says REC and in the list, scheduled recordings, it is there. I also have one other show set to record at the same time. No overlaps, all is good. When the time comes, one show starts to record, the other does not. If I go into the guide at say 7:59 PM the show is listed to record. At 8 PM the show does not record. In the guide it is no longer red, it is not in the list, etc. If I turn to the channel and hit record manually it comes up with the REC in the information for the show but it does not record it. If I go to the guide to record it says it will but it doesn't record it.


Doesn't happen for every recording (it DOES record 2 shows sometimes) but it happens almost daily. Hesitant to call TW because I know they will take the DVR and I will loose my recorded shows that I haven't watched yet.


Sometimes if I am watching a show and hit record, it does not record the show (even though it shows REC in the information of the show after I hit the rec button).


Frustrating as all get out. I have missed so many shows the last couple weeks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18649741
> 
> 
> Here is my latest problem and it makes me want to smash my DVR to bits with a sledgehammer.
> 
> 
> At, lets say 2 PM, I want to record a show that night. I setup the recording through the guide and everything works okay. The show is highlighted in red, it says REC and in the list, scheduled recordings, it is there. I also have one other show set to record at the same time. No overlaps, all is good. When the time comes, one show starts to record, the other does not. If I go into the guide at say 7:59 PM the show is listed to record. At 8 PM the show does not record. In the guide it is no longer red, it is not in the list, etc. If I turn to the channel and hit record manually it comes up with the REC in the information for the show but it does not record it. If I go to the guide to record it says it will but it doesn't record it.
> 
> 
> Doesn't happen for every recording (it DOES record 2 shows sometimes) but it happens almost daily. Hesitant to call TW because I know they will take the DVR and I will loose my recorded shows that I haven't watched yet.
> 
> 
> Sometimes if I am watching a show and hit record, it does not record the show (even though it shows REC in the information of the show after I hit the rec button).
> 
> 
> Frustrating as all get out. I have missed so many shows the last couple weeks.



Ah, the adventures of the SA 8300!







I take it you don't have an eSATA hooked up correct? If you do, that may be your issue.


Really all you can do is tape your shows off your hard drive to (gulp) VCR or a DVD Recorder (which doesn't work well) and exchange it for another DVR. I'd say for the majority of people these DVR's work but there seems to be a certain percentage, myself included who have had some serious issues with it. I went through 3 of them before I shelled out the bucks for a TiVo. I still have one and from what my wife reports to me she has no issues at this time.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18649762
> 
> 
> Ah, the adventures of the SA 8300!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you don't have an eSATA hooked up correct? If you do, that may be your issue.
> 
> 
> Really all you can do is tape your shows off your hard drive to (gulp) VCR or a DVD Recorder (which doesn't work well) and exchange it for another DVR. I'd say for the majority of people these DVR's work but there seems to be a certain percentage, myself included who have had some serious issues with it. I went through 3 of them before I shelled out the bucks for a TiVo. I still have one and from what my wife reports to me she has no issues at this time.



No eSATA. This sucks and is a weird problem to be intermittent. I am dreading loosing all the shows I have recorded, a large portion are from like HBO so I can't watch them on-line (legally). Bummer.


----------



## nickdawg

Wanna borrow my chain and drag that box back to TWC?










It's fun, trust me!!


----------



## hookbill

Today they sent out another letter saying they plan on using a "new technology" called SDV so certain less frequently viewed channels can be ran on. What was the point of this letter? Who the hell knows. My best guess is they are hoping that people with cable cards in their television will get so pissed that they can't receive the channels they use to get will wave a white flag and say OK, we will take your box.


You know currently on just one of my TiVo HD recorders I have 135 shows recorded, all in HD. 135 shows. And I never worry about missing a recording. I'm set for the entire Summer when everything is in repeat. On my other TiVo which only has a 500 gb eSATA I have 139 shows recorded, the majority of those are in SD.


Try doing that with an SA 8300 and a 1TB eSATA. I'll bet you miss a good 25 % of your total recorded shows, either partial recordings or just not recorded at all. That was when I had the most errors was when I had an eSATA set up with it. Frustrating as hell.


----------



## mnowlin

The problem you're having is exactly one of the big reasons I decided to get a Tivo. Things were scheduled to record (two at a time most nights), and the 8300 would fail to record one of them. If I looked in the history panel (or whatever it's called), a common message was something like "channel not available", yet I could punch in that channel during the hour and it would come right up.


I haven't noticed the problem recently (still have an 8300 in the bedroom), but most of my recording is done on the Tivo.


----------



## nickdawg

Uhh, I'd be a bit wary of getting a Tivo if you're gonna stay with TWC. Aren't those tuning adapters still acting up?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18655155
> 
> 
> Uhh, I'd be a bit wary of getting a Tivo if you're gonna stay with TWC. Aren't those tuning adapters still acting up?



Yeah, but it's not that hard to get them fix, just time consuming. Specially if you have more then one and sometimes if you're lucky you can get it fixed in 5 minutes.


Tuner Adapter is supposed to be getting a fix - or so they say. And it's never caused me to miss a recording.


----------



## WilliamR

I called Time Warner last night and they said they were going to send "special signals" to the DVR that would fix any glitches or problems. I nearly laughed at her but let her do it. She said that should fix it. Sure enough last night, it failed to record a show at 8 PM that was clearly scheduled to record when I checked at 7:58 PM. I called back and they said they would send someone out to replace it.


Which model should I make sure I get when he replaces it? Weren't there certain models that are worse then others?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18655914
> 
> 
> I called Time Warner last night and they said they were going to send "special signals" to the DVR that would fix any glitches or problems. I nearly laughed at her but let her do it. She said that should fix it. Sure enough last night, it failed to record a show at 8 PM that was clearly scheduled to record when I checked at 7:58 PM. I called back and they said they would send someone out to replace it.
> 
> 
> Which model should I make sure I get when he replaces it? Weren't there certain models that are worse then others?



Here's the thing. You may not get a chance to choose what DVR they give you for a replacement. They will only give you what they have in stock. They may hand you the same one back.


This is not untypical of the SA 8300, it's a very cheap DVR and it's not reliable for people who do extensive recording. Truly if you want a reliable DVR look into a TiVo or a Moxi. I don't know anything about the Moxi other then you don't pay for data services. TiVo is much more the a DVR, and I understand they are selling refurbs for 100.00 right now. You may want to look at that.


You would lose your On Demand functions with either one of those DVR's but you would get reliable recordings. And as far as pay per view and such you can still have those, you just have to phone it in instead of using the DVR. TiVo allows streaming of Amazon, Netflicks and other video services.


Just something to think about. Good luck on getting a replacement DVR.


----------



## nickdawg

Don't look into a Tivo, look into a different provider!! I'm not saying too much now, but I'm currently looking into a certain satcaster I'm thinking of joining. I've looked at their DVR, honestly it's like

comparing a Commodore 64 to Mac OS X.







Guess which one is Crapigator!!


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18651817
> 
> 
> Today they sent out another letter saying they plan on using a "new technology" called SDV so certain less frequently viewed channels can be ran on.



I think you know that SDV is a way of pretending to have lots of channels that really aren't all available at the same time.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18658670
> 
> 
> Don't look into a Tivo, look into a different provider!! I'm not saying too much now, but I'm currently looking into a certain satcaster I'm thinking of joining. I've looked at their DVR, honestly it's like
> 
> comparing a Commodore 64 to Mac OS X.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess which one is Crapigator!!



All the satellite providers I have tried have been crap. Every single time it storms, the signal goes crap, so all summer we had problems and were constantly calling them out to fix/adjust. I hated the inconsistencies because of the weather.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18661334
> 
> 
> All the satellite providers I have tried have been crap. Every single time it storms, the signal goes crap, so all summer we had problems and were constantly calling them out to fix/adjust. I hated the inconsistencies because of the weather.



I had no problems with D* and their signal when I lived in Kentucky which gets a heck of a lot more storms then N.E. Ohio does. I'd get a rain fade every now and then but it never seemed to be a problem when watching television.


As far as DVR's go, I understand D* has a good one and E* just recently got sued for copyright infringement from TiVo for the second time. I really don't know what else they do in the area of Home Media Entertainment but I'm quite sure that either one of them are miles above the SA 8300.


----------



## TYTONK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18661334
> 
> 
> All the satellite providers I have tried have been crap. Every single time it storms, the signal goes crap, so all summer we had problems and were constantly calling them out to fix/adjust. I hated the inconsistencies because of the weather.



I second WilliamR's comments. My brother and my in-laws both have satellite and any kind of weather (rain or snow) messes with the service. Also, every vacation my family has taken where the place we are staying has satellite has given me the same crappy experience. Believe me, I would love to drop TWC.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/18661662
> 
> 
> I second WilliamR's comments. My brother and my in-laws both have satellite and any kind of weather (rain or snow) messes with the service. Also, every vacation my family has taken where the place we are staying has satellite has given me the same crappy experience. Believe me, I would love to drop TWC.



This is usually because the dishes are not installed or peaked properly. I've had satellite TV for a decade and only had occasional, short service drop-outs just prior to or during a heavy rain storm for a few minutes at a time...certainly nothing that would make me want to return to crappy TWC. Besides that, my TV is almost always off and unplugged during thunderstorms. I've seen what happens to some of those that weren't.







Be sure to disconnect your OTA antenna too, if you have one, before/during electrical storms.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rluyster* /forum/post/18663239
> 
> 
> This is usually because the dishes are not installed or peaked properly. I've had satellite TV for a decade and only had occasional, short service drop-outs just prior to or during a heavy rain storm for a few minutes at a time...certainly nothing that would make me want to return to crappy TWC. Besides that, my TV is almost always off and unplugged during thunderstorms. I've seen what happens to some of those that weren't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be sure to disconnect your OTA antenna too, if you have one, before/during electrical storms.



This is my experience as well. Only very minimal outages during heavy thunder storms.


----------



## Vchat20

Yep. Ditto. As rluyster said it is due to the dish not being peaked properly and the installer probably just went 'ok. Got signal.' and left it. It's unfortunate there are those types there to deal with but you'll get the same experience with TWC techs as well. I would suggest for your relatives if they can't get their Sat provider to come out and fix it to find a local Sat dealer in the phone book and see if they can come out and align the dish properly. Get that done and it'll be miles better.


Even though I have only had my Dish service since December the only time it has ever went out was the more recent major storm that went through here and only for a short period when the second massive wave passed over around Ravenna or so (My dish is pointed around WSW so it points through the upper clouds around that area of the state). Past that I've had no other issues with outages.


(Btw, yes I'm back. Stupid forums seem to have moods where I go without email notifications for months on end.







)


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/18659540
> 
> 
> I think you know that SDV is a way of pretending to have lots of channels that really aren't all available at the same time.



Not really. That's like saying because a rental store won't let you rent out the whole library of movies at once you complain that they don't have a wide selection. They have a large selection but realistically you aren't going to watch the whole mess of movies within the rental period you are given not to mention them wanting to have movies for other people to rent.


I've never been a huge fan of SDV either but the basic premise as it was designed is a good one. Just the implementation is faulty. Realistically each SDV pool will have ample capacity to keep each customer assigned to it the ability to view what channels they want within the reasonability that a number of customers may watch the same channel simultaneously which still only counts for one SDV occupancy. But I think TWC at least here in NEO made a huge mistake and dumped their idea of moving lesser viewed channels to SDV and started adding a bunch of high profile networks such as USA and the Turner Networks which anyone will tell you is a huge waste considering the channels are going to be watched close to 90-100% of the time by somebody.


It's funny though you guys are just NOW getting letters about this 'new' technology. So what were we all before? Guinea pigs? Wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18663506
> 
> 
> It's funny though you guys are just NOW getting letters about this 'new' technology. So what were we all before? Guinea pigs? Wouldn't surprise me.



I think it's just because they are planning on adding more SDV channels and they are giving us a heads up. It probably went out to everyone with cable cards. Obviously if you use a television with a cable card you are losing channels, and they want everybody to get on board with one of their boxes.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18663527
> 
> 
> I think it's just because they are planning on adding more SDV channels and they are giving us a heads up. It probably went out to everyone with cable cards. Obviously if you use a television with a cable card you are losing channels, and they want everybody to get on board with one of their boxes.



Probably, but with alot of the good channels already dumped in the SDV bin long ago you'd think Cable Card customers would have gotten a warning earlier on? In fact didn't you guys already get little mailed flyers about that before?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18663619
> 
> 
> Probably, but with alot of the good channels already dumped in the SDV bin long ago you'd think Cable Card customers would have gotten a warning earlier on? In fact didn't you guys already get little mailed flyers about that before?



Yeah we did, and at that time we got a list of the channels that were going SDV. No list this time. Just a standard letter offering a box for cable cards, explaining SDV technology, etc. I've seen a similar letter a few months ago.


Maybe it's a CYA for them as they continue to drop channels off their own frequency and on to SDV.


----------



## black88mx6

I also received the letter and there was a list of all the new digital channels on the back that were now also going to sdv. I still only have cable card TV's but will soon get a Ceton MOCUR for my HTCP that will allow me to view and record all the SDV channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *black88mx6* /forum/post/18667051
> 
> 
> I also received the letter and there was a list of all the new digital channels on the back that were now also going to sdv. I still only have cable card TV's but will soon get a Ceton MOCUR for my HTCP that will allow me to view and record all the SDV channels.



I'm reading that's for Windows Media Computers. Is that your set up?


----------



## jtscherne

I'm coming back to cable after a number of years with satellite and a year or so with u-verse. It sounds like cable card issues are regular (I have two HD Tivos). So far I can't even find anyone locally who understands them. The first person I talked to gave me a telephone number that actually turned out to be Tivo!

I'm considering just signing up with regular boxes and fighting the cablecard battle later, unless someone can give me the magic words to get to the right people.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/18667709
> 
> 
> I'm coming back to cable after a number of years with satellite and a year or so with u-verse. It sounds like cable card issues are regular (I have two HD Tivos). So far I can't even find anyone locally who understands them. The first person I talked to gave me a telephone number that actually turned out to be Tivo!
> 
> I'm considering just signing up with regular boxes and fighting the cablecard battle later, unless someone can give me the magic words to get to the right people.



Tell them that you need two cable cards and two tuning adapters for your equipment. Placing the order wasn't that hard for me, and I got my S3 back when cable cards were brand new. Of course I lied and told them it was for two HD sets but told the truth when they showed up. Back then however you didn't need a tuner adapter.


Give it a try, if that doesn't work pm me with your phone number and I'll shoot out an email to someone who will get around to helping you.


Good luck.


----------



## WilliamR

For those that have a dish system. Do you use the DVR that came from the dish provider? Is it good? Can it record more then 2 shows at a time?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18667060
> 
> 
> I'm reading that's for Windows Media Computers. Is that your set up?



Yep. Pretty much. Ceton's the big name now for CableCard capable tuners for Windows Media Center PC's. And now that CableLabs has lifted the OEM only requirement so anyone with enough money can build a plane jane PC with plenty of drive space, Windows 7, and plop in a Ceton card.


Properly built and set up Windows Media Center computers are really nice tbh and miles ahead of Tivo imho. Most of it is customizable to the point of having all your media integrated and then some. If it wasn't for Time Warner being outrageously priced around here I'd jump on building one now with a handful of CableCard QAM tuners and ATSC tuners. Add on a few media center extenders so only need Wifi to the extra tv's in the house and all have access to the main HTPC DVR library, etc.. But I digress once again.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18668536
> 
> 
> For those that have a dish system. Do you use the DVR that came from the dish provider? Is it good? Can it record more then 2 shows at a time?



I don't know how far back you are thinking but these days it is pretty much dish provided hardware or nothing. And honestly they are not bad at all. Both DirecTV and Dish's boxes are hundreds of miles ahead of Time Warner's Navigator crap. I don't think anyone has DVR's that can record more than 2 shows at a time except the Moxi cable DVR's.


Though on Dish with XXXk boxes you can get an add-in OTA tuner which allows you to ultimately record 2 shows off the satellite and 2 shows OTA. This is the setup I have and it works nicely. Record 2 primetime network shows OTA and 2 cable channel shows all at once. Nice on Wednesday nights when you have Mythbusters, Law and Order: SVU, CSI: NY, and whatever latest series USA has airing.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18669669
> 
> 
> Yep. Pretty much. Ceton's the big name now for CableCard capable tuners for Windows Media Center PC's. And now that CableLabs has lifted the OEM only requirement so anyone with enough money can build a plane jane PC with plenty of drive space, Windows 7, and plop in a Ceton card.
> 
> 
> Properly built and set up Windows Media Center computers are really nice tbh and miles ahead of Tivo imho. Most of it is customizable to the point of having all your media integrated and then some. If it wasn't for Time Warner being outrageously priced around here I'd jump on building one now with a handful of CableCard QAM tuners and ATSC tuners. Add on a few media center extenders so only need Wifi to the extra tv's in the house and all have access to the main HTPC DVR library, etc.. But I digress once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how far back you are thinking but these days it is pretty much dish provided hardware or nothing. And honestly they are not bad at all. Both DirecTV and Dish's boxes are hundreds of miles ahead of Time Warner's Navigator crap. I don't think anyone has DVR's that can record more than 2 shows at a time except the Moxi cable DVR's.
> 
> 
> Though on Dish with XXXk boxes you can get an add-in OTA tuner which allows you to ultimately record 2 shows off the satellite and 2 shows OTA. This is the setup I have and it works nicely. Record 2 primetime network shows OTA and 2 cable channel shows all at once. Nice on Wednesday nights when you have Mythbusters, Law and Order: SVU, CSI: NY, and whatever latest series USA has airing.



AT&T U-Verse CLAIMS their DVR can record up to 4 shows at once but I heard they can't do more then 1 HD show at a time.


Technically TiVo can record 3 shows at a time. It has the two tuners and it can record either a transfer or a download from the PC or Amazon or Netflix and a few other Movie choices they has as well.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/18667709
> 
> 
> I'm coming back to cable after a number of years with satellite and a year or so with u-verse. It sounds like cable card issues are regular (I have two HD Tivos). So far I can't even find anyone locally who understands them. The first person I talked to gave me a telephone number that actually turned out to be Tivo!
> 
> I'm considering just signing up with regular boxes and fighting the cablecard battle later, unless someone can give me the magic words to get to the right people.



CableCards themselves are neither one-way or two-way - they just handle conditional access and crypto. The only differences in CableCards are the single-stream (original) cards and the newer M (multistream) cards. A single multistream card can process the crypto for two tuners simultaneously. The M cards also contain a little more memory and code to support additional features in the future.


The Tuning Adaptor is what turns a CableCard-equipped Tivo into a 2-way device as the TA contains a return path transmitter (modulator). In essence it makes the whole package emulate a regular set-top box, only it uses Tivo's program guide instead of the MSO's guide.


Hope this helps.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/18667709
> 
> 
> I'm coming back to cable after a number of years with satellite and a year or so with u-verse...












































































Why? I gotta say, you picked the worst possible time in history to be a TWC customer and those cable card/Tivo boxes make it even worse. It's a lose-lose either way. TWC is terribly high priced service with either their own equipment, which is total garbage, especially their DVR(if you're coming from Tivo, Uverse and satellite, you're *REALLY* gonna hate this SA box with TWC's junk inhouse software!) and watching HDTV channels is a pain in the ass with SDV. And if you want to use a cable card device, the ones that work with this system such as Tivo, forget about it!!! Tuning adapters, flashing lights, calls to customer service. It's really not worth all that hassle just to watch TV. Hookbill's definitely a helluva more patient guy than I am to put up with all that crap.










And did I mention the price? TWC is horribly expensive, a fraking ripoff. The satellite company I'm currently looking into(hint: the first two letters in their name are "Di".







) has a much more affordable package with 200 some channels, including those which would require me to pay an additional $15 a month on top of the digital tier for the various "ripoff" tiers like "Choice" and "Sports". I get channels I want like Fuel TV, Fine Living, Boomerang and FOX Movie Channel without the additional charges.







Plus I even get extras like NHL Network and NFL Network.
























Why you'd want to go with TWC is beyond me.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18661399
> 
> 
> I had no problems with D* and their signal when I lived in Kentucky which gets a heck of a lot more storms then N.E. Ohio does. I'd get a rain fade every now and then but it never seemed to be a problem when watching television.
> 
> 
> As far as DVR's go, I understand D* has a good one and E* just recently got sued for copyright infringement from TiVo for the second time. I really don't know what else they do in the area of Home Media Entertainment but I'm quite sure that either one of them are miles above the SA 8300.



And the weather thing is not that big of a deal. During the severe weather events I wasn't able to watch WOIO at all and I even had to adjust the antenna for channel 5, which is my best station in HDTV. But surpisingly I was able to watch WJW with little problems on that night when there was the huge thunder storms and tornadoes a few Fridays ago.


And TWC is no better, their SDV would act up, even on sunny days!!







I know that has nothing to do with the weather, but recent experiences with TWC were bad enough for me to put aside the way I used to feel about satellite TV and weather interference. I *miss* the days when it would only go out in really bad weather!


Like just yesterday my grandmother called me in the morning to fix her TV. She couldn't watch Dr. Oz at 10AM. Turns out cable was out again. Just like she said it was out in the evening the week before, she couldn't watch :Medium: at 9pm.


----------



## hookbill

Nickdawg, its not anything like you say. Yes, satellite is better Not I have had 0 issues with SDV. The tuner adapter is a pain in the rear but you make the whole thing seem like a nightmare. Its not that bad.


Since you dumped cable good for you. I hope this time your experience with D* isn't as bad as the way you use to described it the first time You used it. Good luck.


----------



## Goldenager62

Cable was out all evening yesterday, even channels below 100, it was a general outage. When will Time Warner get it right.

I was thinking about getting their internet service, but not until they can get their cable right.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18671951
> 
> 
> Cable was out all evening yesterday, even channels below 100, it was a general outage. When will Time Warner get it right.
> 
> I was thinking about getting their internet service, but not until they can get their cable right.



I would say that your problems seem to be isolated to your area. Cable worked fine for me last night, watched Dodgers v Tigers on HD. No issues what so ever.


As far as the internet goes, even though they use the same line the internet service is awful darn good. When I have had problems they've worked with me to correct, even to go as far as laying out a new cable line from the main box to my house. But chances are that if you're have ing type of outage you experienced last night it was like that everywhere in your area.


With all the problems you've had I'd consider an alternative provider, if you can have one.


----------



## djzeitler

It appears the handshake problem between the HDMI and Dolby Digital/Audio is fixed.


I can now turn off the TV and and turn it back on and the settings stay on Dolby Digital


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18671977
> 
> 
> I would say that your problems seem to be isolated to your area. Cable worked fine for me last night, watched Dodgers v Tigers on HD. No issues what so ever.
> 
> 
> As far as the internet goes, even though they use the same line the internet service is awful darn good. When I have had problems they've worked with me to correct, even to go as far as laying out a new cable line from the main box to my house. But chances are that if you're have ing type of outage you experienced last night it was like that everywhere in your area.
> 
> 
> With all the problems you've had I'd consider an alternative provider, if you can have one.



The only option I have would be to go with a HTPC setup, which I have been experimenting with, that is getting all my programming over the internet.

My maximum DSL speed is 6.5 MBits. A little slow to download HD content.


----------



## hookbill

Just thought I'd share another tuner adapter story with you guys. I don't know if I've mentioned it but there are only 2 guys that work the cable card assistance desk. That's for the entire nation. Now I'm pretty sure that it's not the same 2 guys all the time but I did get the same guy that I had last month today.


My birds were saying "hello" which they do frequently when they see me on the phone so I explained to the guy that it was my parrots. He said, "thats ok. Hey, I think I spoke with you before let me look. Yep, It was on April 22 on this same tuner adapter."


One month on the same date. Wonder if there is anything to that?


I bypassed customer service and went straight through to Cable Card Support. Last 3 times I called the regular CSR they weren't able. This guy had me fixed up in 10 minutes.


I think I mentioned this too in a previous post but if you do run across a problem with the TA and need to call Cable Card Support the best day to do it is on Wednesday. They have more people working the desk on Wednesday for whatever reason.


This was the same guy who told me about a fix being in the works and he said yes, got an email on it this morning and it should be very soon.


Hopefully this TA thing may be coming to an end.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18671951
> 
> 
> Cable was out all evening yesterday, even channels below 100, it was a general outage. When will Time Warner get it right.
> 
> I was thinking about getting their internet service, but not until they can get their cable right.



There was no issues with the internet last night during the lock-up.

that was weird BTW


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18671977
> 
> 
> I would say that your problems seem to be isolated to your area. Cable worked fine for me last night, watched Dodgers v Tigers on HD. No issues what so ever.
> 
> 
> As far as the internet goes, even though they use the same line the internet service is awful darn good. When I have had problems they've worked with me to correct, even to go as far as laying out a new cable line from the main box to my house. But chances are that if you're have ing type of outage you experienced last night it was like that everywhere in your area.
> 
> 
> With all the problems you've had I'd consider an alternative provider, if you can have one.



In all honesty, I haven't seen many of the problems that GA has reported and were in the same zone


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbvp* /forum/post/18674405
> 
> 
> In all honesty, I haven't seen many of the problems that GA has reported and were in the same zone



The tech I had at my home last Wednesday lives on Quarry Rd. He told me he was having the same problems I was having on the HD channels.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djzeitler* /forum/post/18672018
> 
> 
> It appears the handshake problem between the HDMI and Dolby Digital/Audio is fixed.
> 
> 
> I can now turn off the TV and and turn it back on and the settings stay on Dolby Digital



What a relief not to go through 15 button presses to fix this every time.


----------



## stuart628

is anyone else having a problem with abc, lost keeps breaking up, please let me know so I know if its my system only thanks!


----------



## Argee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/18678082
> 
> 
> is anyone else having a problem with abc, lost keeps breaking up, please let me know so I know if its my system only thanks!



Uts happening all over the country on sat and cable and OTA. The problem is in ABC's feed. See the discussion in the HD forum on this site.


----------



## nickdawg

Hopefully there will be a "Help Wanted" sign in the window at 3001 Euclid Ave. tomorrow morning!


----------



## Argee

WEWS Facebook page has a bunch of real pissed off LOST viewers. There were problems in some other parts of the country but they all got cleaned up before the finale started but not in Cleveland. I guess WEWS has the part time janitor running the equipment on Sunday nights. They say they will air the finale again this coming Saturday but all the "secrets" will be all over the media tommorrow. Really no excuse for WEWS botching up one of the most anticipated TV events of the year if not decade.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/18678394
> 
> 
> WEWS Facebook page has a bunch of real pissed off LOST viewers. There were problems in some other parts of the country but they all got cleaned up before the finale started but not in Cleveland. I guess WEWS has the part time janitor running the equipment on Sunday nights. They say they will air the finale again this coming Saturday but all the "secrets" will be all over the media tommorrow. Really no excuse for WEWS botching up one of the most anticipated TV events of the year if not decade.



Thanks for letting me know about Saturday. Since I have several episodes still on my DVR I will delete tonight's episode and record Saturday nights. I probably wont get around to watching that episode until late June.


----------



## lbvp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18674573
> 
> 
> The tech I had at my home last Wednesday lives on Quarry Rd. He told me he was having the same problems I was having on the HD channels.



I'm on the other side of town in the Valley


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/18678394
> 
> 
> WEWS Facebook page has a bunch of real pissed off LOST viewers. There were problems in some other parts of the country but they all got cleaned up before the finale started but not in Cleveland.



The ability to work around an event like this can vary from city to city and depends on many variables including the footprint of the satellite, the angle at which they're steering the affected satellite for evasive manuevers, the availability of a dish/receiver aimed at a replacement satellite, the presence of terrestrial interference on spare satellites/transponders... many things. What might be an easy fix for one city could be more difficult for another.


The root cause of all this excitement was a solar storm back in April that knocked out command and control communications to Galaxy-15, causing it to drift aimlessly into the path of other satellites. Some things are just bigger than all of us.


----------



## Argee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18678922
> 
> 
> The ability to work around an event like this can vary from city to city and depends on many variables including the footprint of the satellite, the angle at which they're steering the affected satellite for evasive manuevers, the availability of a dish/receiver aimed at a replacement satellite, the presence of terrestrial interference on spare satellites/transponders... many things. What might be an easy fix for one city could be more difficult for another.
> 
> 
> The root cause of all this excitement was a solar storm back in April that knocked out command and control communications to Galaxy-15, causing it to drift aimlessly into the path of other satellites. Some things are just bigger than all of us.



WRONG! They said its an equipment problem on THEIR end and even the local newscast was breaking up and freezing. Nothing to do with the satellite.


----------



## WilliamR

What is the difference between the 8300HD and the 8300HDC, the tech only has an 8300HD and I am not sure I want him to do the exchange. He is outside checking the cables, etc. for my other issue with breakups.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/18679883
> 
> 
> What is the difference between the 8300HD and the 8300HDC.....



I'm no expert, but I think the difference is the C = cable card compatible.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Argee* /forum/post/18679456
> 
> 
> WRONG! They said its an equipment problem on THEIR end and even the local newscast was breaking up and freezing. Nothing to do with the satellite.



I admit I was wrong in this case - it turned out to be their STL. Mea Culpa.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/18680682
> 
> 
> I'm no expert, but I think the difference is the C = cable card compatible.



Yes, the C suffix denotes an OCAP (Cablecard) box.


----------



## Goldenager62

We are getting a major software update to our boxes now. I wish they would have pick a better time.


----------



## Sigwolf

The re-airing of the Lost finale is scheduled for Saturday at 8:00PM. The only problem is that they are showing a 2:05 run time. Since the original airing was 2:30, and I don't think they plan on cutting 0:25 worth of commercial time, just what are they cutting out of the show??


----------



## WilliamR

I had the technician install the new box. Wow, I don't know if my old box was just failing that bad or what but the new box is night and day in performance. The picture quality is far superior to what I had before (more on that in a second). The performance of the box is at least twice as fast as the old box. Menus pop up instantly, the guide comes up as soon as you hit the button and everything just works really crisp. I am impressed with the performance of this box.


I told the technician I was also getting a lot of macro blocking with screen stuttering, etc. He went around and replaced all the ends of all the cables throughout the house and outside. Full day of watching TV with not a single stutter or problem and not sure if it impacted the picture quality or not, but even my wife commented when she came home if I changed something because it looked way better. More colors, richer, brighter, all around much better experience.


My only negative, there is no longer the option to select tune to the nearest channel. He called headquarters and they said that option is being removed from the software. He didn't understand why it would be and what the reasoning was but he was going to check into it and get back to me.


----------



## dmking12370




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sigwolf* /forum/post/18685490
> 
> 
> The re-airing of the Lost finale is scheduled for Saturday at 8:00PM. The only problem is that they are showing a 2:05 run time. Since the original airing was 2:30, and I don't think they plan on cutting 0:25 worth of commercial time, just what are they cutting out of the show??



According to WEWS, they are hyping it as being "limited commercial interruption." In addition, the Jimmy Kimmel special is airing immediately afterwords. I believe that this is the network doing this, so it is likely that a lot of the commercials are being cut out.


In addition, WEWS announced today that they will be doing an additional airing of Lost on Thursday morning at 1:05 PM. According to their statement, the entire episode will be aired.


Finally, I noticed that WEWS actually placed a half-page ad in today's Akron Beacon Journal apologizing for the technical diffuculties. I find that interesting that they would take that approach.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmking12370* /forum/post/18688634
> 
> 
> According to WEWS, they are hyping it as being "limited commercial interruption." In addition, the Jimmy Kimmel special is airing immediately afterwords. I believe that this is the network doing this, so it is likely that a lot of the commercials are being cut out.



Yes, the Saturday airing is provided by the networks for all affiliates, not just WEWS.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/18690277
> 
> 
> Yes, the Saturday airing is provided by the networks for all affiliates, not just WEWS.



It's on my TiVo guide, got it set up to record. Even though WEWS is taking responsibility for all this my understanding is Cleveland was not the only city having issues with that broadcast.


----------



## Rbuchina

I was out of town over the weekend but sometime between Thursday and Sunday the Mentor area has fianlly got the "Restart" option up and running.


Ray


----------



## BudgetPlan1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/18690397
> 
> 
> I was out of town over the weekend but sometime between Thursday and Sunday the Mentor area has fianlly got the "Restart" option up and running.
> 
> 
> Ray



Restart bites; can't fast forward through commercials, correct?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/18692047
> 
> 
> Restart bites; can't fast forward through commercials, correct?



Nope you wouldn't be able to. I didn't think about that. Another Time Warner #Fail.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BudgetPlan1* /forum/post/18692047
> 
> 
> Restart bites; can't fast forward through commercials, correct?



No you cannot. I tried it on one of the first channels I saw it on just to try the feature out. I tried to FF with no luck. I have no intent on actually using it, but I have been seeing the restart screens in several other TWC locations outside of Mentor and I was just glad to see Mentor again catching up to the rest of the system.


Ray


----------



## TheAngryPenguin

The inability to FF during a StartOver session is very likely _not_ a limitation from TWC, but something that's mandated by the content providers. Yea, I agree that it's stupid since we can either record a program, wait 33% into the show to start watching it and then skip through the commercials, or we can do the same by surfing the buffer.


What really sucks about StartOver is that it's impossible to 're'StartOver. For example, I have many times been ScrewedOver(tm) when starting over a program within its last 5-10 minutes of airing and one of my dogs jumps on the remote, effectively changing the channel -- this makes it impossible to go back and continue watching the show since the next program is already in progress. It would be really nice if we could go back to the previous program in the guide and 're'StartOver...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheAngryPenguin* /forum/post/18693482
> 
> 
> The inability to FF during a StartOver session is very likely _not_ a limitation from TWC, but something that's mandated by the content providers. Yea, I agree that it's stupid since we can either record a program, wait 33% into the show to start watching it and then skip through the commercials, or we can do the same by surfing the buffer.
> 
> 
> What really sucks about StartOver is that it's impossible to 're'StartOver. For example, I have many times been ScrewedOver(tm) when starting over a program within its last 5-10 minutes of airing and one of my dogs jumps on the remote, effectively changing the channel -- this makes it impossible to go back and continue watching the show since the next program is already in progress. It would be really nice if we could go back to the previous program in the guide and 're'StartOver...



Time Warner doesn't want to miss out on DVD charges. StartOver is what it is, and really it's a pretty nice feature. But since it's sort of based on their "On Demand" technology, correct me if I'm wrong CK, it may very well be a bit limited.


----------



## nickdawg

Uhh folks, that's the whole point of Start Over. The networks/advertisers allowed it, hoping people will use that rather than recording shows and skipping the ads.


I don't see what all the buzz is over?







I only used that one time, and that was just to see how it worked. I'm already getting TWC ads about "subscribe to digital cable and get start over, for free!!" lol, I don't care.







If I coulda canceled it and saved some money, I would.


BTW, what the hell did they do to the boxes the other night? I had to go look at my mother's 8300HDC because it "shut off" the night before. I guess it did a software update, but I had to reboot it for her again. And one thing I noticed is the "upgrade"








of Crapigator actually made it slower. Maybe it's just me because I don't use it on a regular basis anymore, but it was moving slow and sluggish as hell.


----------



## awyeah

By the way, in case anyone is experiencing a problem receiving FXHD (channel 478) on their TiVo...


I got in touch with the CableCARD helpdesk and reported the issue. The guy worked with an engineer, and we determined that it may have been caused by a mismatch between the channel maps in the CableCARD and the Tuning Adapter.


From what I gathered, a channel will be either in the CableCARD channel map *or* in the TA channel map. Sometimes both... and when it is in both, the mapping in the TA takes precedence.


Anyway, FXHD ended up being in both places at once - and the mapping in the TA was incorrect - they recently removed FXHD from SDV due to some issues, and never updated the TA channel map.


Basically, the TiVo was attempting to tune to FXHD using the TA, but the TA had bad info. When I unplugged TA from the TiVo, the channel was able to tune without issue.


TWC is going to update my channel map tonight to see if it helps, and if it does, they're going to roll it out to everyone else.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18694867
> 
> 
> By the way, in case anyone is experiencing a problem receiving FXHD (channel 478) on their TiVo...
> 
> 
> I got in touch with the CableCARD helpdesk and reported the issue. The guy worked with an engineer, and we determined that it may have been caused by a mismatch between the channel maps in the CableCARD and the Tuning Adapter.
> 
> 
> From what I gathered, a channel will be either in the CableCARD channel map *or* in the TA channel map. Sometimes both... and when it is in both, the mapping in the TA takes precedence.
> 
> 
> Anyway, FXHD ended up being in both places at once - and the mapping in the TA was incorrect - they recently removed FXHD from SDV due to some issues, and never updated the TA channel map.
> 
> 
> Basically, the TiVo was attempting to tune to FXHD using the TA, but the TA had bad info. When I unplugged TA from the TiVo, the channel was able to tune without issue.
> 
> 
> TWC is going to update my channel map tonight to see if it helps, and if it does, they're going to roll it out to everyone else.



Yep FX is out. Thanks for letting us know. Nice job TW.


----------



## awyeah

You know, I was actually pretty impressed with them this time around. I was expecting to get the usual spiel - reboot, reseat, and send a hit to the boxes, then schedule a tech to come out.


The CableCARD guys really know what they're doing, and they have direct access to network engineers.


BTW, they didn't give me a time frame on applying the fix to all boxes. The guy did tell me that to do a mass update, they have to get signoff from higher management.


----------



## nickdawg

Wow, it took a whole year for them to realise what I knew from day one: channels like USA and F/X do not belong on SDV, especially when inferior networks like TBS and TNT are not SDV.


Also, the last time I looked before leaving CWC, I think they also moved Dicsovery HD off SDV too. Maybe they'll chip away at that analog lineup some more and take more stuff off SDV.


----------



## jtscherne

I wish I could say my cablecard installation went smoothly. However, when the customer knows more than the technician about the technology, you begin to see that there's going to be a problem.

Anyone have a decent "complaint" email address for Time Warner? It was a screw up from both the order desk and the local technicians. I sent a message through the regular "Contact us" link on the TWC website, but I don't have any belief that it will get to someone.


And if you're ever thinking about getting cablecards, and the order person doesn't mention "Tuner Adapters", hang up!!!!


Thanks all.


----------



## jtscherne

And the FedEx man just left, having delivered the tuner adapters...


----------



## scnrfrq

Could I get some opinions from those of you who have TW phone service? They are offering me a good deal, but I'm hesitant, considering the quality of their cable service.


----------



## JJkizak

According to my guru buddy the only drawback is when you have a power failure you have no phone.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18698668
> 
> 
> Could I get some opinions from those of you who have TW phone service? They are offering me a good deal, but I'm hesitant, considering the quality of their cable service.



I use Vonage. Its cheaper then TW. And if the power did go out it forwards to my wireless phone. 20.00 a month, 500 outgoing minutes. No long distance charges and incoming and toll free numbers don't apply to the 500 minutes.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/18698731
> 
> 
> According to my guru buddy the only drawback is when you have a power failure you have no phone.
> 
> JJK



Or a cable failure.







Luckily those never happen with TWC.










I sure as hell wouldn't trust them with something as important as my phone, especially since I don't think I've ever had the phone 'go out' on me. Through all the sever weather, power outages, even the blackout back in 2003, my phone has always worked.


----------



## awyeah

By the way, the fix they applied to my tuning adapter for FXHD (478) worked. I had to unplug the tuning adapter from the TiVo and plug it back in.


They said that they will be applying the fix to the entire Cleveland area very soon.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/18699289
> 
> 
> By the way, the fix they applied to my tuning adapter for FXHD (478) worked. I had to unplug the tuning adapter from the TiVo and plug it back in.
> 
> 
> They said that they will be applying the fix to the entire Cleveland area very soon.



I'm missing recordings because of this. And how are people suppose to know that their TA needs to be rebooted?


This is bull pucky. They shouldn't have let it happen in the first place.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/18698668
> 
> 
> Could I get some opinions from those of you who have TW phone service? They are offering me a good deal, but I'm hesitant, considering the quality of their cable service.



I have it and love it. Crystal clear service, great feature for caller ID on the TV (and it keeps a record of the caller IDs for you to review). If you are worried about no phone service during a power outage or problem, you can spend $3 a month and get their very robust voice mail system. If the power is out your voice mail still answers the phone. Do you have a cell phone? If so, then no need to fear emergencies where you have to call in a power outage.


----------



## hookbill

It appears that the "roll out" to the tuner adapters was not as complicated as I seemed to have thought. FXHD 478 is back on both of my TA's this morning, no reboot required.


This is my house, YMMV at your own house.


----------



## ErieMarty

any idea whats still out there that we don't have ?


trying to remember the last time they rolled out new HD channels..


----------



## hookbill

They are not giving out any more new HD channels because they can't seem to get our tuner adapters on the same channels with everyone else.


Just kidding. I think.


----------



## jtscherne

History Channel International is now in HD, but doesn't really contain anything different than the stuff on History Channel.


TruTV and C&I are both available in HD, as is RFD-TV.


I'm sure there are many more, but these are the ones I know are offered on other systems.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/18702972
> 
> 
> any idea whats still out there that we don't have ?
> 
> 
> trying to remember the last time they rolled out new HD channels..


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/18702972
> 
> 
> any idea whats still out there that we don't have ?



Here are the ones you don't have (according to the online lineup) that I know of. Of course the value of each channel is up to the individual, but these are the HD channels that (I'm pretty sure) exist today that I pieced together from a couple sources. It does look like TWC NEO has a pretty solid lineup (I'd like to have AMC, HLN & E! on my system).


ESPNU HD

CBS College Sports HD

NFL Network HD

MLB Network HD

NHL HD

NBA TV HD

Tennis Channel HD

Spike HD

bio. HD

National Geographic HD

Planet Green HD

Disney XD HD

HDNet

WGN America HD

CMT HD

BET HD

Fox Business Network HD

Crime and Investigation Network HD

Versus HD

Speed HD

The Mtn. HD

Fox College Sports HD

Fuel TV HD

Lifetime HD

Hallmark HD

Hallmark Movie Channel HD

BBC America HD

G4 HD

History International HD

IFC HD

Fox Soccer Channel HD

TruTV HD

DIY HD

Sundance HD

Epix HD

Investigation Discovery HD

Fuse HD

Outdoor Channel HD

Style HD

Logo HD

Univision HD

Fashion HD

World Fishing Network HD

Cars.TV HD

Shorts HD

NHK World HD

Setanta HD

TV One HD

RetroPlex HD


I'm having a hard time determining what HD channels TWC NEO has from the following networks:

HBO

Cinemax

Starz

Showtime


----------



## shooter21198

_ESPNU HD

CBS College Sports HD

NHL Network HD

MLB Network HD
_NFL Network HD
_NBA TV HD

Tennis Channel HD

Spike HD

bio. HD

National Geographic HD

Planet Green HD

Disney XD HD
_HDNet

WGN America HD
_CMT HD

BET HD

Fox Business Network HD
_Crime and Investigation Network HD
_Versus HD

Speed HD
_The Mtn. HD

Fox College Sports HD

Fuel TV HD

Lifetime HD

Hallmark HD
_Hallmark Movie Channel HD

BBC America HD_
_G4 HD
_History International HD
_IFC HD
_Fox Soccer Channel HD

TruTV HD

DIY HD

Sundance HD

Epix HD

Investigation Discovery HD
_Fuse HD

Outdoor Channel HD
_Style HD

Logo HD

Univision HD

Fashion HD

World Fishing Network HD

Cars.TV HD

Shorts HD

NHK World HD

Setanta HD
_TV One HD
_RetroPlex HD


Italicized the ones we already have from memory


----------



## Goldenager62

I had a few HD channels out yesterday. When I called in, Time Warner had an outage in another area that was causing the problem. I must be at the the end of the line, what happens anywhere else also effects me.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/18705003
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having a hard time determining what HD channels TWC NEO has from the following networks:
> 
> HBO
> 
> Cinemax
> 
> Starz
> 
> Showtime



HBO HD

Cinemax HD

Showtime on Demand HD

Showtime HD

Showtime 2 HD

TMC HD and

Starz HD


So far, these are the only premium movie channels on TWC NEO.


Ben Music


----------



## MaximusMMIV

I wish they would finish rolling out some of the more prominent ones that went to (or are going to) other networks but not NEO:


truTV HD

History International HD

TV Land HD

WGN-America HD

Nat Geo Wild HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18729586
> 
> 
> I wish they would finish rolling out some of the more prominent ones that went to (or are going to) other networks but not NEO:
> 
> 
> truTV HD
> 
> History International HD
> 
> TV Land HD
> 
> WGN-America HD
> 
> Nat Geo Wild HD



Now you just look here Mister (or Madam, I don't know)! They've got their hands full right now trying to figure out how the hell they are ever going to convert those darn Tuner Adapters so that they can at least have them all on the same line up! Those TiVo people are a pia, they are they complain about the least little thing! Like that screw up they made with FX and the next thing you know there they are, calling and complaining.


They are out of channel room on the old tier. No new channels until they fix the TiVo issue!


Just kidding of course, they wouldn't hold that up just because of us. If other TW areas have them, you'll get them eventually. I know my brother in Nashville doesn't get WGN in HD but he has Comcrap.


I'm still trying to figure out who would pay 5.00 extra for those 3 HD channels they offer as premium channels? I did back in the days when we had like 5 HD channels.


----------



## Goldenager62

Does anybody know what can be done about Time Warner's weather alerts. They are loud, long, and obnoxious.

Is there anyway they can be turned off. They only come through the cable box and I was hopping there would be a way.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18740122
> 
> 
> Does anybody know what can be done about Time Warner's weather alerts. They are loud, long, and obnoxious.
> 
> Is there anyway they can be turned off. They only come through the cable box and I was hopping there would be a way.



Sadly, no. That would involve common sense which could never happen when combining the collective idiocy of both government and cable co's.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18740122
> 
> 
> Does anybody know what can be done about Time Warner's weather alerts. They are loud, long, and obnoxious.
> 
> Is there anyway they can be turned off. They only come through the cable box and I was hopping there would be a way.



Actually there is. You can cancel your cable at anytime.










Look at nickdawg. Now he is free!


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18740924
> 
> 
> Actually there is. You can cancel your cable at anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look at nickdawg. Now he is free!



Hey Hook,

Did you get the tornado warnings over your TIVO yesterday.


----------



## hookbill

Nope. Not a thing, and we were watching recordings of The Amazing Race and Survivor last night, followed by an episode of Chuck. 3 hours, not one warning over TiVo.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18740122
> 
> 
> Does anybody know what can be done about Time Warner's weather alerts. They are loud, long, and obnoxious.
> 
> Is there anyway they can be turned off. They only come through the cable box and I was hopping there would be a way.



At least they should regionalize them by county like you can do with any $20 weather radio. Here in Erie we keep getting warnings for all of Ohio, hundreds of miles away. I thought about trying to explain this to TW's crack support team, but I doubt that people in India really care....


----------



## jtscherne

Why are we not getting the Strasberg game on MLB Network???


----------



## hookbill

Is that something local? I'm not following you.


----------



## abcmatt

For some reason Cleveland is being blacked out of Strasburg's first MLB start and are getting the alternate game. This would be MLB Network's fault right?


----------



## jtscherne

MLB Network is supposed to be showing the Pittsburgh Washington game tonight. Instead we are getting the backup game. MLB network has a backup feed to cover home team blackouts and that's what we are getting.


----------



## hookbill

Zap2it.com indicates that it is Regional Coverage. Quite honestly I've never seen that from MLBnet.

http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti...upId=OH66550:L


----------



## jtscherne

I guess we'd have to check with someone who has directv to see what game they are getting locally.


----------



## jtscherne

I'm watching the game on my Roku box, which is subject to the same blackout rules.


----------



## terryfoster

We're getting the Nat's game here on DirecTV in Ann Arbor and the alternate feed is blacked out.


----------



## its.mike

Just last week ESPN blacked out the Reds / Cardinals game. But yet I was able to watch on MLB.sham which makes no sense, considering they have the same policies on blackouts.


----------



## MediaObsessions

Anybody else in Canton/N. Canton having SDV issues? Talking with the nat'l cablecard support line (was transferred from local cust. service) they said there was an SDV outage in my area. This all started with the "8-blinking light" problem, then got a solid light through various hits/reboots, however none of my SDV channels are available. What a PITA...


----------



## hookbill

I was fooling around with my Droid and decided to make a test call so I called customer service at TWC. I'm just getting ready to hang up when I hear a "Please be aware, we will be performing maintenance tonight between the hours of 2:00 am and 6:00 am in the Bainbridge area, and there may be service interruptions."


Well, that happens to be where I live. But then he named off several more areas and times and mentioned different specific times.


All are scheduled late night so probably nobody will notice anything. I will be up late tonight watching baseball so I'll see if I notice anything.


Was your area in it?


I don't know, call and find out if you're curious. I kind of wonder if this might be the changes to our tuner adapters to get us on the same page with everyone else at TWC.


I guess we will find out tomorrow.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18763319
> 
> 
> All are scheduled late night so probably nobody will notice anything. I will be up late tonight watching baseball so I'll see if I notice anything.



Frequency realignments afaik.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18764114
> 
> 
> Frequency realignments afaik.



Do you think they will ever get our tuner adapters to map with the rest of TW? It's not a problem as far as I'm concerned but it has been months since TW switched it's line up.


Frequency realignments probably suggest to me that they are moving SDV channels around.


----------



## MediaObsessions

FWIW, I just called TWC to cancel my appointment (TA fixed itself) and they said they were working on a few missing channels in the Avon Lake area.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/18764682
> 
> 
> FWIW, I just called TWC to cancel my appointment (TA fixed itself) and they said they were working on a few missing channels in the Avon Lake area.



Why would They set up an appointment for a tuner adapter? I thought you said they were having problems in your area and you had a steady green light.


How ridiculous can they be setting up a truck roll. I doubt if their techs even know what a tuner adapter is.


I was helping out a forum member with his install. The tech that came out not only didn't have tuner adapters for was she didn't know what SDV was.


----------



## nickdawg

Yay!! I always loved planned maintenance. With as many "maintenances" as they seemed to "plan" in my area, my service should have been flawless.










I swear, they did "maintenance" at least once a week.


----------



## MediaObsessions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18764717
> 
> 
> Why would They set up an appointment for a tuner adapter? I thought you said they were having problems in your area and you had a steady green light.
> 
> 
> How ridiculous can they be setting up a truck roll. I doubt if their techs even know what a tuner adapter is.
> 
> 
> I was helping out a forum member with his install. The tech that came out not only didn't have tuner adapters for was she didn't know what SDV was.



The local tech on the phone couldn't totally fix the problem. I got a steady green light but was in "Broadcast Only" mode. Meaning it either wasn't requesting SDV channels or the headend was not sending them. They are supposed to run a report to see if there is an outage in my neighborhood, however this time they didn't, instead they sent me to national cablecard support. The national guys setup the truck roll because there was no other option-- the local people didn't know there was an outage/maintenance/whatever and the national people needed to do SOMETHING. They said this way they could flag my problem. Three flags in the same area triggers alarms or something. This is the info I can piece together anyway.


The monthly tech support calls are making me think about DirecTV. They are running really good deals now and my line of sight is clear. Damn, I really don't want to give up my TiVo...someone talk me out of satellite...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MediaObsessions* /forum/post/18765705
> 
> 
> The local tech on the phone couldn't totally fix the problem. I got a steady green light but was in "Broadcast Only" mode. Meaning it either wasn't requesting SDV channels or the headend was not sending them. They are supposed to run a report to see if there is an outage in my neighborhood, however this time they didn't, instead they sent me to national cablecard support. The national guys setup the truck roll because there was no other option-- the local people didn't know there was an outage/maintenance/whatever and the national people needed to do SOMETHING. They said this way they could flag my problem. Three flags in the same area triggers alarms or something. This is the info I can piece together anyway.
> 
> 
> The monthly tech support calls are making me think about DirecTV. They are running really good deals now and my line of sight is clear. Damn, I really don't want to give up my TiVo...someone talk me out of satellite...



A buddy of mine just got direct TV and he's telling me that TiVo will be back for Direct TV in 3rd quarter. Something to think about.....


----------



## AkronTom

When we watch recordings, sometimes they will stop before the end of the movie/show as if they ran longer than the recorded time. This usually happens on movies from TCM or AMC but will occasionally happen on network shows. Wifey now uses the guide to setup the recording and then adds 10 minutes manually.


Is this an inability of the guide to have an accurate running time and something we all have to live with?


Tom


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AkronTom* /forum/post/18769168
> 
> 
> When we watch recordings, sometimes they will stop before the end of the movie/show as if they ran longer than the recorded time. This usually happens on movies from TCM or AMC but will occasionally happen on network shows. Wifey now uses the guide to setup the recording and then adds 10 minutes manually.
> 
> 
> Is this an inability of the guide to have an accurate running time and something we all have to live with?
> 
> 
> Tom



I don't know what causes it, but you can change the recording settings to add minutes to a specific show. You could get into the habit of doing this for those movie channels habitually--annoying, but functional. I wonder if the networks have provided the wrong info to the guide sometimes.


----------



## nickdawg

It's probably the network more than anything. Some networks broadcast and cable really suck and do this one minute earlier or later start times. I think it all started with ER on NBC at 9:59 many years back. And cable networks make it even worse. Channels like TV Land have shows that start before they are scheduled or sometimes run over. Probably so they can insert more ads.


----------



## Inundated

And, of course, they want to prevent you from flipping to another channel on time...if you're a live viewer.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/18771617
> 
> 
> And, of course, they want to prevent you from flipping to another channel on time...if you're a live viewer.



The one thing I never got to try was start over. I think TV Land was one of the starto over channels. I wonder what would happen if you 'started over' the shows, it would probably start at whatever was on at the beginning of the half hour. And I wonder what would happen when the start over window ended and the show isn't over yet. I wonder why they even bother wasting their time with this on a channel with a bad schedule? I remember it was also on CNN analog too. Which I never understood why anyone would want to "start over" something like CNN Newsroom, that's live news. Really, I wonder why they waste their time with that start over crap period?


----------



## WilliamR

Is there any way to set a manual recording with this new software? I don't seem to be able to anymore. Or at least I don't see where to set it.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18771981
> 
> 
> The one thing I never got to try was start over. I think TV Land was one of the starto over channels. I wonder what would happen if you 'started over' the shows, it would probably start at whatever was on at the beginning of the half hour.



If I remember right, you are correct. I don't have it now, tho.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/18782831
> 
> 
> If I remember right, you are correct. I don't have it now, tho.



You also dropped TWC?










*cheers and applause*


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18782946
> 
> 
> You also dropped TWC?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *cheers and applause*



Nope, I explained this earlier. I have analog only service right now. It's how I'm getting the local HD stations in QAM on my HDTV set.


----------



## Goldenager62

I thought that Time Warner finally had their act together. We have gone two weeks with no problems. Got up this morning and had one HD channel with no sound and two HD channels breaking up.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18793823
> 
> 
> I thought that Time Warner finally had their act together. We have gone two weeks with no problems. Got up this morning and had one HD channel with no sound and two HD channels breaking up.




I hate to say it but it could just be coming from the broadcaster.


I got to wonder Goldenager62 do you go through all your HD channels on a daily basis to see if they are working? I only have a few HD channels outside of the locals that I watch and I never see problems.


To be honest with you out of all the HD channels we had a little break up and a sound issue wouldn't be the end of the world. Have you tried resetting your box to see if that helps? Sometimes the sound issue is resolved by simply switching channels and back again.


Here's a known fact: Cable sucks. Always has, always will. If I didn't have a line of site problem I would never have had cable installed.


----------



## lumber2398

Hook,


Have you heard any update as to when TW is going to update the TA for people with TIVO's. I haven't been able to record an HD show for over 3 months now since Tivo thinks the channels are in the 1000's but TW is till broadcasting them in the 400's


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lumber2398* /forum/post/18795045
> 
> 
> Hook,
> 
> 
> Have you heard any update as to when TW is going to update the TA for people with TIVO's. I haven't been able to record an HD show for over 3 months now since Tivo thinks the channels are in the 1000's but TW is till broadcasting them in the 400's



Nope. Not a word, I sent an email out to my one contact but never heard back from her. I asked Cathode Kid, who is just as good as she is and he didn't respond either.


Makes me think that's it's on their back burner.


I'll try sending another email out today and see if I get a response.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18793847
> 
> 
> I hate to say it but it could just be coming from the broadcaster.
> 
> 
> I got to wonder Goldenager62 do you go through all your HD channels on a daily basis to see if they are working? I only have a few HD channels outside of the locals that I watch and I never see problems.
> 
> 
> To be honest with you out of all the HD channels we had a little break up and a sound issue wouldn't be the end of the world. Have you tried resetting your box to see if that helps? Sometimes the sound issue is resolved by simply switching channels and back again.
> 
> 
> Here's a known fact: Cable sucks. Always has, always will. If I didn't have a line of site problem I would never have had cable installed.



I am a channel surfer, I go thought HD channels till I find something I want to watch. I also can tell there are problems sometimes, because the channels are slow to come in.

I have tried unplugging the box, turning it on and off, changing channels and swearing at it, nothing works.

The reason this bothers me is because the amount of money I spend on cable it should be a lot better than it is.


----------



## hookbill

Ahhhh, the channel surfer. See I'm a television planner, I never do the surfing thing.


OK, just got a response from my contact. She assures me it's on their to do list but there is no eta.
























I think that as a group of TiVo people we are so small that we are really on the back burner. Don't forget it's not all TiVo owners that are affected by this, just a few of us lucky ones.


I do think they will get to it, but it's no where on the radar. At least that's my take in it. Cathode Kid would that be an accurate statement?


If he doesn't respond that means I'm right. lol


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18796378
> 
> 
> I do think they will get to it, but it's no where on the radar. At least that's my take in it. Cathode Kid would that be an accurate statement?



I can't say that it's nowhere on their radar; the facy that there was some activity on this issue already shows that it's on their list. I'm sure that your contact is following the issue internally. As for an ETA, my crystal ball is having an issue with it's HDMI port and won't display the answer.


----------



## hookbill

Anyone else notice that ESPN an MLBnet no longer broadcast in Dolby 5.1? I wonder if that's the broadcadst or the cable? Anyway I miss Dolby 5.1


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18803652
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that ESPN an MLBnet no longer broadcast in Dolby 5.1? I wonder if that's the broadcadst or the cable? Anyway I miss Dolby 5.1



It's probably TWC. Not bashing, but a fact I remember. Some channels like F/X and FOX News used to broadcast in 1080i on TWC, even though all FOX Networks are 720p. Also I think the Big Ten Network is supposed to be 720p and DD3/2.1 but on TWC it was 2/0 and 1080i. Considering how they compress and ASSDV the channels, surely something could go wrong when they encode it.


On another note, is there something wrong with WKYC right now? I noticed on 3-1 as well as the weather plus channel there's no PSIP programming info. Not that I care about the crappy game show tonight, but I would like to know whats on NBC at other times.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18803652
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice that ESPN an MLBnet no longer broadcast in Dolby 5.1? I wonder if that's the broadcadst or the cable? Anyway I miss Dolby 5.1



Doesn't MLB Network use the local game feeds? I'd imagine if the local provider doesn't do 5.1, MLB can't...


----------



## hookbill

All of their regular programming including games were in Dolby 5.1. Now nothing is. ESPN same thing.


Really could use a response from a satellite user. I tend to agree with nickdawg I'm thinking its TW.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18803947
> 
> 
> All of their regular programming including games were in Dolby 5.1. Now nothing is. ESPN same thing.
> 
> 
> Really could use a response from a satellite user. I tend to agree with nickdawg I'm thinking its TW.



Post a topic on the main HD board. ESPN and all the Disney networks also use that "faux surround" on non 5.1 programming. Instead of passing actual 2.0 sound they just upconvert it and send that out. I believe it's called "circle surround" or something.


TWC also inserts local ads on some channels like TNT, TBS and ESPN. Those ads were always 2.0.


If you're talking about World Cup programming, I'd assume an event like that would be in surround, and if not it would be fake surround. Only thing I have access to is whatever they show on 5, and since I don;t have a cable box anymore I can't get real "digital" surround sound anymore.


----------



## k2rj

Nick,

Your TV doesn't have a digital audio output? My 5-year old Panny has both PCM (RCA plug) and optical audio outputs...


----------



## hookbill

According to Ken H. ESPN IS 5.1 and MLBnet is 2.0. I guarantee you last season MLBnet was in 5.1.


Here's something that's kind of weird. I can see in the display the diagram of my rear speakers when receiving both these channels. This doesn't happen unless it's a signal going to the back speakers. And since my speakers are wireless I have a transmitter that blinks as it sends sounds to the back speakers. I see it lighting up.


Nothing wrong with the amp. I'm starting to wonder if it's just Tuner Adapter people experiencing this since this seemed to happen right at the same time the channel line up changed.


So you people with the new line up and a Dolby sound system, can you tell me what you see? It doesn't matter if it's TiVo, just so long as you have the new line up.


All my other Dolby 5.1 channels are coming in fine.


----------



## bassguitarman

Just be thankful the MLB fans havent discovered the vuvuzela horn.


----------



## jtscherne

They have. Florida gave them away the other day.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18810030
> 
> 
> According to Ken H. ESPN IS 5.1 and MLBnet is 2.0. I guarantee you last season MLBnet was in 5.1.
> 
> 
> Here's something that's kind of weird. I can see in the display the diagram of my rear speakers when receiving both these channels. This doesn't happen unless it's a signal going to the back speakers. And since my speakers are wireless I have a transmitter that blinks as it sends sounds to the back speakers. I see it lighting up......



Interesting....


Usually the displayed speakers on an AVR's front panel is the received signal, not what speakers are going to be used.

My Yamaha AVR shows 2 speakers for 2 ch (2.0) input, and 6 speakers for 6 ch (5.1) input. But in either case all speakers are being used (that's the point of ProLogic type DSP's).


Your rear speaker indicator lights on the actual speakers themselves would (should) be illuminated either way as they are receiving a signal regardless of whether the cable ch is 2.0 or 5.1


What happens when you go to a lower analog ch? Like ch 8 on your Tivo/cable box?

Does it still show all 6 speakers? Or just two?

Does it display Dolby Digital? Or Dolby ProLogic?


Whether your TA could be causing such oddities I dunno.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/18811705
> 
> 
> Interesting....
> 
> 
> Usually the displayed speakers on an AVR's front panel is the received signal, not what speakers are going to be used.
> 
> My Yamaha AVR shows 2 speakers for 2 ch (2.0) input, and 6 speakers for 6 ch (5.1) input. But in either case all speakers are being used (that's the point of ProLogic type DSP's).
> 
> 
> Your rear speaker indicator lights on the actual speakers themselves would (should) be illuminated either way as they are receiving a signal regardless of whether the cable ch is 2.0 or 5.1
> 
> 
> What happens when you go to a lower analog ch? Like ch 8 on your Tivo/cable box?
> 
> Does it still show all 6 speakers? Or just two?
> 
> Does it display Dolby Digital? Or Dolby ProLogic?
> 
> 
> Whether your TA could be causing such oddities I dunno.



It has to do with my Amplifier. I can manually set it to Dolby ProLogic and get the same diagram.


If I go to channel 8 I would get just the left, right, and woofer displayed.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18811806
> 
> 
> It has to do with my Amplifier. I can manually set it to Dolby ProLogic and get the same diagram.
> 
> 
> If I go to channel 8 I would get just the left, right, and woofer displayed.



Yes, that makes sense.


ProLogic can be applied to any such signal input (2.0, 2.1, 3.1, 4.0, 5.1).

So on a 5.1 signal you can apply (select) ProLogic if you wish, and this is what you are seeing, a 5.1 signal, showing 5.1 speakers, with ProLogic applied.

What you can't do is go the other way, trying to force (apply) Dolby Digital to a 2.0 signal.


Your AVR is correctly displaying the input signal as number of speakers (ch's)

- 2 ch input signal on TV ch 8 shows two speakers

- 5.1 ch input signal on a digital 5.1 TV station shows 5.1 speakers


All of the above is basic and common for most any AVR.


What is interesting is that you are getting a 5.1 signal on a TV ch that is supposed to be 2.0, so the question is where is the signal being messed up?

MLB, TWC, Tivo, tuning adapter?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtscherne* /forum/post/18810193
> 
> 
> They have. Florida gave them away the other day.



Yet another reason to hate the Marlins...of course, being an Indians fan, 1997 is more than enough reason.


----------



## hookbill

I was watching live television and I finally saw the TWC weather crawl. I still don't know if it will show up on my TiVo while watching a recording, but it wouldn't let me do anything at all until I pressed clear to exit. Not even change a channel.


That's the first time I've seen it since my DVR was an SA 8300.


----------



## mnowlin

I also saw the Tivo tornado warning this evening. A little annoying that I had to figure out "hit the Clear button" by trial and error, but it's no big deal now that I know which button to hit.


I was watching a recorded show when the alert came across. It bounced me to live TV on WKYC-HD, but that's probably because that's the channel I had on before I started watching the recording. I did notice that while a bunch of severe thunderstorm warnings/updates were being issued around the same time, only the tornado warning interrupted my Tivo.


----------



## Ben Music

Just wondered if anyone has needed to do a TA reset lately? For the last four or five months i've to do a reset every 30 days like clockwork. It's now 35 days since the last reset. Is it possiable that this is finally fixed?


Ben Music (Elyria/North Ridgeville headend)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/18835262
> 
> 
> Just wondered if anyone has needed to do a TA reset lately? For the last four or five months i've to do a reset every 30 days like clockwork. It's now 35 days since the last reset. Is it possiable that this is finally fixed?
> 
> 
> Ben Music (Elyria/North Ridgeville headend)



I did one about two weeks ago but my second one is due and it hasn't gone down. As I mentioned I've heard twice that a fix was coming. Hopefully its here now.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18835648
> 
> 
> I did one about two weeks ago but my second one is due and it hasn't gone down. As I mentioned I've heard twice that a fix was coming. Hopefully its here now.



Don't know if this is related or not, but when I returned from an overnight in Erie on Saturday evening, many stations would just come up with a blank screen. The ones that did come in were the locals, Fox News as well as others peppered through the lineup. It would show the guide info at the bottom of the screen for all and the Start-Again invitation would come up on the channels so equipped, but nothing would happen if you selected it. I gave the 8300 a cold boot and it took about 8-10 minutes for it to come back on-line, but afterward it was working normally. Maybe some errant "upgrade" happened Thursday or Friday night....


Ron J.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

Hey guys,


This was probably discussed 50 pages ago, but I can't find it.


On the 8300HD DVR, I remember, before Navigator, that you could set the box output to Pass-through, and let the TV upconvert the source. I just got a fancy schmancy new LED TV, and the only options I can get now is a fixed output of 480i, 720p, or 1080i. I trust my TV more to handle the conversion than I do the 8300HD.


Currently I have it set to 1080i, via Settings>Display menu. I remember before hand you could press Guide+Info with the box off and get into an initial Setup menu, but I guess that has been disabled.


Any ideas? Should I just leave the output at 1080i?


Thanks.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/18837376
> 
> 
> Should I just leave the output at 1080i?



I would. Even though TWC's SD picture quality is horrible(and I'm being kind there







), I always found it looked worse set at 480i. Even the cable box graphics looked fuzzy and low res.


----------



## Vchat20

With the Navigator software the resolution options basically tell the box to enable what resolutions you want passed to the tv. Essentially if you want what was the old 'Pass-through' option you should select each resolution in the list. 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Or if you want the box to upconvert SD channels to some form of HD you would make sure 720p and 1080i are checked. In this case 480i/p is upconverted to 720p as the lowest available option and native 720p and 1080i channels are pushed to the tv at those resolutions.


Hopefully that explains things in a relatively easy to understand manner. Pass-Through is still there, just you have to tell the box you want each output resolution to be available so each channel's native res is passed to the tv without any conversion processes.


These days it is all pretty much personal preference as the internal scalers in most relatively modern sets are comparable especially on highly compressed SD material. I think right before I got rid of TWC I said screw it and locked it in at 1080i at the box just to get rid of the channel change delay switching between channels of 2 different resolutions (this also is dependent on the tv since it is just the set re-syncing to a different resolution. Some are quicker than others. But there is definitely going to be some form of delay involved.)


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18838550
> 
> 
> I think right before I got rid of TWC I said screw it and locked it in at 1080i at the box just to get rid of the channel change delay switching between channels of 2 different resolutions (this also is dependent on the tv since it is just the set re-syncing to a different resolution. Some are quicker than others. But there is definitely going to be some form of delay involved.)



I used to use both 720p and 1080i, until it f---ed up my TV. One time during one of those "flashes" when changing formats I had a light blue screen permanently stuck on my screen. And it only happened on the component input. If I switched to the RF input on TV channel 4, there was picture like usual. I had to reboot the box to get the component output to work again. After that I left it at 1080i too.


Now that I'm using the over the air ATSC tuner built in my TV there is a change between 480i/720p/1080i channels. But it's faster than it was with the cable box and I haven't had any issues with it yet. In fact, I have faster channel changing with OTA than I did with that stupid cable box.







Those things are slow as hell.


----------



## subavision212

Just got my bill: great-another rate increase! I need to cut down all my trees.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18847820
> 
> 
> Just got my bill: great-another rate increase! I need to cut down all my trees.



Since my wife pays the bills I never see when there is an increase. Where was the increase at?


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18847928
> 
> 
> Since my wife pays the bills I never see when there is an increase. Where was the increase at?



The digital value service went from 48.99 to 53.99. They also raised the franchise fee from 3.32 to 3.57 and Taxes and Fees went from 3.95 to 4.20. A 5.25 increase on my bill at least.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18847928
> 
> 
> Since my wife pays the bills I never see when there is an increase. Where was the increase at?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/18848886
> 
> 
> The digital value service went from 48.99 to 53.99. They also raised the franchise fee from 3.32 to 3.57 and Taxes and Fees went from 3.95 to 4.20. A 5.25 increase on my bill at least.



That's the way they always do it. Like they make you pay a few cents more for their hunk of crap remote or cable box. Or else all of those fees he listed increase a few cents here and there. Oh and things like DVR service increase. I first had that in 2004 for *$4.95*/month. By this year I was paying $10/month for a DVR that is worse than the one I had in 2004!!







Even the totally unevolved, almost beta-version of Passport back then ran circles around this Navigator junk.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18848954
> 
> 
> That's the way they always do it. Like they make you pay a few cents more for their hunk of crap remote or cable box. Or else all of those fees he listed increase a few cents here and there.



Of course, because those are the increases that they can begin collecting immediately while disregarding price lock.


----------



## Too_Many_options

HD service was bad last night with Time Warner,

Lots of freezes and some total signal loss,

had to switch to std def.


----------



## abcmatt

On the 8300HD DVR, is there a way to turn off the red weather warning that stays on everything you watch on the box?


----------



## nickdawg

This is an actual list from TWC's website:


> Quote:
> Start Over Enabled Programming for NBC may include
> 
> such shows as*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100 Questions
> 
> 30 Rock
> 
> Americas Got Talent
> *Bionic Woman*
> 
> Chuck
> 
> Community
> 
> Dateline NBC
> 
> Days of our Lives
> *ER*
> 
> Early Today
> 
> Friday Night Lights
> *Heroes
> 
> Im a Celebrity*
> *Las Vegas*
> 
> Last Call with Carson Daly
> 
> Last Comic Standing
> 
> Law & Order: Special Victims Unit
> 
> Law & Order
> *Life*
> *Lipstick Jungle*
> 
> Losing It With Jillian
> 
> Meet the Press
> *Merlin*
> 
> Minute to Win It
> 
> NBC Nightly News
> 
> Parenthood
> 
> Parks and Recreation
> 
> Persons Unknown
> 
> Saturday Night Live
> *Southland*
> 
> The Celebrity Apprentice
> 
> The IT Crowd
> *The Marriage Ref*
> 
> The Office
> *The Philanthropist*
> *The Sing-Off
> 
> The Singing Bee*
> 
> Today


 http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...toverwkyc.html 


Wow, that Start Over feature is more impressive than I thought if it has the power to "start over" shows NBC canceled two or three years ago!!!


----------



## hookbill

New episodes of Merlin are available on SciFi....










You forgot Law and Order is cancelled.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18795067
> 
> 
> Nope. Not a word, I sent an email out to my one contact but never heard back from her. I asked Cathode Kid, who is just as good as she is and he didn't respond either.
> 
> 
> Makes me think that's it's on their back burner.
> 
> 
> I'll try sending another email out today and see if I get a response.



Your STA will receive new firmware tonight to fix this.


----------



## hookbill

Thanks for the heads up. If this is true we will need to do a guided channel set up on our TiVos. It should say Time Warner Digital Rebuild.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18876150
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. If this is true we will need to do a guided channel set up on our TiVos. It should say Time Warner Digital Rebuild.



Just to clarify, this is for the blinking-light lockup issue, not the channel lineup.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18876278
> 
> 
> Just to clarify, this is for the blinking-light lockup issue, not the channel lineup.



Thanks. My living room box was due to brick any day now. Its more important then the lineup change.


----------



## hookbill

Cathode Kid appears to have hit the nail on the head again. A quick check of both of my TiVo's showed that I had a message saying "A tuner adapter is connected to this TiVo." Of course I know that but the only reason to get a message like that is if the TA was reset. Light was steady green, channel line up appears to be the same.


----------



## Ben Music

Yes, I think it has finally been fixed. It's now been 45 days since my last brick. Normally it was every 30 days.


Ben Music.


----------



## Goldenager62

Once again I thought Time Warner had their act together. Two weeks went by with no problems and today four HD channels are out, USA, Discovery, A&E, and STO.


----------



## Goldenager62

I see they drop channels 1309 and 1310 from the lineup, nothing on them anyways.


----------



## hookbill

According to their line up there is nothing on 1309 and 1310 is an alternative STO channel.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...7&Image1=&Zip=


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18887915
> 
> 
> I see they drop channels 1309 and 1310 from the lineup, nothing on them anyways.



I think 1309 is dropped when the Cavaliers are finished on Fox Sports Ohio for the season, and I presume that channel is reinstated when the new season (or preseason) begins. I hope that channel becomes full-time HD soon, because I think there are college football games on FSN in HD that we don't get due to the current status of channel 1309.


----------



## Too_Many_options

Lots of HD channels dark last night on TMC


----------



## its.mike

Does anyone here know why CrimeWarner blacks out BlueJackets games in HD while they still show the SD feed once a week during the season?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/18894918
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know why Time Warner blacks out BlueJackets games in HD while they still show the SD feed once a week during the season?



Is the HD channel the same as the SD channel (i.e. FSN Ohio HD and FSN Ohio SD, NOT Versus HD and FSN Ohio SD)?


----------



## terryfoster

Since the Cleveland thread has been split between OTA and only one of the local TV service providers, I guess this might be the right place to ask about U-Verse availability.


I've been told that U-Verse isn't available at our new address. I'm wondering if anyone knows how soon it might be coming to the Shaker Heights area near S Woodland and Warrington Road. Have any VRADs been installed or any AT&T trucks in that area?


I'm really not excited by the HSI options in the area (my address can only do 3/512k DSL and both TWC and WOW don't offer ESPN3), so I'm holding out hope that AT&T is working on servicing my area for U-Verse.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/18895473
> 
> 
> Is the HD channel the same as the SD channel (i.e. FSN Ohio HD and FSN Ohio SD, NOT Versus HD and FSN Ohio SD)?



Yeah, when they're on FSN Cleveland the HD feed is blacked out while the SD feed is fine.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/18893581
> 
> 
> Lots of HD channels dark last night on TMC



I have had HD channels going on and off for the last three days.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/18897631
> 
> 
> Yeah, when they're on FSN Cleveland the HD feed is blacked out while the SD feed is fine.



Is FSN Ohio HD a full time channel on TWC or do they only show the games being carried in HD? Since there were some games not broadcast in HD on FSN Ohio, are you sure the "blacked out" games were supposed to be in HD?


It's hard to troubleshoot this since the NHL is done for the year.


----------



## Too_Many_options




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18898422
> 
> 
> I have had HD channels going on and off for the last three days.



They are sending a truck, claim it's not on their end.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/18898570
> 
> 
> They are sending a truck, claim it's not on their end.



All those tier 1 customer reps know how to do is reboot your box and then send a truck out.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/18898484
> 
> 
> Is FSN Ohio HD a full time channel on TWC or do they only show the games being carried in HD? Since there were some games not broadcast in HD on FSN Ohio, are you sure the "blacked out" games were supposed to be in HD?
> 
> 
> It's hard to troubleshoot this since the NHL is done for the year.



It only broadcasts when there is something on. According to twitter they had most games in HD last season yet nothing but a black screen.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/18907336
> 
> 
> It only broadcasts when there is something on. According to twitter they had most games in HD last season yet nothing but a black screen.



Yeah, then my guess is that the game wasn't being produced in HD since only 50 games were being covered in HD out of the ~75 games being covered by FSN Ohio for the 2009-2010 season.

http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=499677 
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=479082


----------



## hookbill

Good news: Tuner adapter fix seems to have worked.

Bad news: (for me) My oldest TiVo has been having weekly issues but

Good news: I believe it's being caused by the eSATA. It's been making what I can best describe as "clanking" noises and it was always quiet. I've moved all programming on to my computer in case I end up pulling it. As you probably know if I boot the TiVo without the eSata I would lose a lot of programming as the eSata is the larger of the two hard drives and programming goes to the largest hard drive first.


I'm still in May sweeps on my television viewing so I'm unaware of any HD issues. I have been watching live television during baseball season.


This year on the MLB Extra Innings they added an additional HD channel and all season long the service has been (knock on wood) perfect. Last year it was horrible.


I also noticed that even though the MLB Extra Innings channels are all SDV they never seem to disconnect like other SDV channels do. Weird, because they have to be the least watched channelsspecially when no game is on.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18911596
> 
> 
> Good news: Tuner adapter fix seems to have worked.
> 
> Bad news: (for me) My oldest TiVo has been having weekly issues but
> 
> Good news: I believe it's being caused by the eSATA. It's been making what I can best describe as "clanking" noises and it was always quiet. I've moved all programming on to my computer in case I end up pulling it. As you probably know if I boot the TiVo without the eSata I would lose a lot of programming as the eSata is the larger of the two hard drives and programming goes to the largest hard drive first.



That clanking sound is worrisome. From my experience that sound comes from the head stack slamming against the resting position post because it can't find the location of the sector it needs to move to, so it keeps "homing" to the parked position. This could be failing bearings in the platter assembly, a crashed (physically damaged) sector or an out of calibration head stack. I suspect this drive will not last much longer, so I wouldn't store anything important on it.


----------



## bassguitarman

Yup thats the sound mine made. Then it would randomly lock up then it wouldnt boot at all. A new drive fixed it.


----------



## mnowlin

Went to see my brother's new house this afternoon. During the housewarming party, he asked me about frequent reboots of his SA8300 while watching HD channels. At first I thought his "all the time" description was a little over-blown until I saw the 8300 reboot less than five minutes after tuning to Discovery HD. When it finished rebooting, I tuned to NBC-HD, and it blew up again within 5-10 minutes.


This is pretty horrible, even by the lowest performance TWC is commonly known to deliver. I told him to call for a truck roll - something is definitely wrong. Suggested he connect his TV via Component instead of HDMI to see if anything changes...


----------



## bassguitarman

New very strange problem at home. Former Adelphia area , Copley, No channel 19 HD . Also the channel 371 channel 19 weather sub channel is gone. 8300 HD. All other channels work fine.


----------



## Coin Ops

Bassguitarman,


I have the same problem here in North Olmsted. Channel 19.1 and 19.2 along with WVIZ 25.1 thru 25.4 went dark this past weekend. All other QAM HD channels still work fine.


I called TW and they said it must be a weak signal and they are sending a tech out later this week....


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Coin Ops* /forum/post/18929315
> 
> 
> Bassguitarman,
> 
> 
> I have the same problem here in North Olmsted. Channel 19.1 and 19.2 along with WVIZ 25.1 thru 25.4 went dark this past weekend. All other QAM HD channels still work fine.
> 
> 
> I called TW and they said it must be a weak signal and they are sending a tech out later this week....



It's likely low levels at that particular frequency. Try removing splitters to boost the signal to a single tv. If it comes back, that's your answer.


----------



## Inundated

Same problem here with WVIZ and WOIO's QAM.


They were moved a while back...and it looks like they ended up on RF 75. I can't get a picture out of either of them, other than an occasional flash. Maybe I'll try the upstairs hookup with my portable DTV...the other QAMs work fine.


I am also in the former Adelphia area.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/18929572
> 
> 
> It's likely low levels at that particular frequency. Try removing splitters to boost the signal to a single tv. If it comes back, that's your answer.



I have no such option, unless I move the TV closer to the outlet. I'm not gonna mess with my TV and furniture just because TWC moved the channels. They were fine before the move.


----------



## bassguitarman

Both 19 and 25 are back in HD this morning.


----------



## Inundated

Still having problems with 19/25 QAM channels, though they seem to scan OK separately on RF 75. If they show up at all, it's a broken picture and broken sound, but mostly, they aren't there.


All other QAMers are fine.


----------



## Goldenager62

I know this is a bit off subject, but I would like to know about Time Warner's internet service.


1. What it is the fastest speed according to speedtest.net?

2. Is this speed constant?

3. Is it reliable, is it always on or there ups and downs or outages?


----------



## hookbill

1. I forget, but their turbo is the fastest


2. No, it does depend upon how many people are using the internet but it's pretty damn fast.


3. I've had some issues a couple of times but overall in 6 years of using it I find it far more reliable then DSL. In my 8 years of DSL I had constant outages, for hours at a time. When I've had a problem with TW it usually doesn't involve more then resetting my modem.


I haven't had a problem with them since my last issue, which turned out not to be there fault but my routers in over 6 monhs.


Also:


When I did have issues, they have come out and laid new underground cable for me.


Never charged me a penny for service calls.


And technical support from the phone actually is useful.


----------



## edjrwinnt

I'm really considering the dumping of Time Warner this fall for DirecTV. My bill has gone up 10% over the last two bills with no explanation, and now my HD channels are going in and out again my TiVo.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18957177
> 
> 
> I'm really considering the dumping of Time Warner this fall for DirecTV. My bill has gone up 10% over the last two bills with no explanation, and now my HD channels are going in and out again my TiVo.



What's to consider? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Not only that but I hear that TiVo DVR's are going to be available in third or fourth quarter this year for Direct TV again.


----------



## edjrwinnt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18957185
> 
> 
> What's to consider? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Not only that but I hear that TiVo DVR's are going to be available in third or fourth quarter this year for Direct TV again.



Where did you hear this about the new DirecTiVo? I'm too lazy to search. The last I heard a few months ago was that neither company knew when it was coming out.


The only thing I'll miss is the fast internet connection dumping Time Warner. I'm thinking maybe an IPAD with 3G may do though for my internet surfing.


----------



## rluyster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18957211
> 
> 
> Where did you hear this about the new DirecTiVo? I'm too lazy to search. The last I heard a few months ago was that neither company knew when it was coming out.
> 
> 
> The only thing I'll miss is the fast internet connection dumping Time Warner. I'm thinking maybe an IPAD with 3G may do though for my internet surfing.



You can have just the internet service by itself. I've subscribed to Directv since 1999 along with RoadRunner for internet service. I gave up on TWC's TV service a long time ago, as you can see.







RR speed is quite good and I've had very few problems over the past 11 years. I honestly can't even remember the last time there was an outage.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18957185
> 
> 
> What's to consider? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Not only that but I hear that TiVo DVR's are going to be available in third or fourth quarter this year for Direct TV again.



That's interesting to know. Thanks for the headsup...


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18957185
> 
> 
> What's to consider? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Not only that but I hear that TiVo DVR's are going to be available in third or fourth quarter this year for Direct TV again.



I use TWC roadrunner for internet and Directv for video.


I originally used the old Directv Tivo; but shifted to organic Directv receivers around 4 years ago. I don't have any interest in trying the new Tivo.


My current Directv receivers (HR24's) are fast and reliable with 500 MB internal drives. I have a 1 TB e-sata drive attached to the one in the family room. Both are networked (via the coaxial cable) to the internet, my computers, and each other (system will network up to 4 receivers). Play lists from the two are integrated on both receivers. Bottom line: We can record 4 HD programs at once while watching two previously recorded shows; and I can watch programs recorded from either HR24 in the den or family room. Additionally, Directv and the receivers provide three 3D channels for my Panasonic 65vt25 (including ESPN 3D which broadcast the South African soccer matches and the recent All Star game).


If Tivo is what's keeping you tied to TWC for video despite the fact that you are unhappy with service, suggest you consider the Directv system if you have a line of sight to the southern sky.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18952303
> 
> 
> I know this is a bit off subject, but I would like to know about Time Warner's internet service.
> 
> 
> 1. What it is the fastest speed according to speedtest.net?
> 
> 2. Is this speed constant?
> 
> 3. Is it reliable, is it always on or there ups and downs or outages?



It really depends on where you are. I have their 7 mbit service. In Cuyahoga Falls, it ran anywhere from 10 - 25 mbit. I transferred my service to Tallmadge, and now they can't seem to get it above 1 mbit during prime time. It's crazy aggravating, and multiple service calls haven't done jack.


U-Verse: t-minus 3 weeks and counting.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/18952303
> 
> 
> I know this is a bit off subject, but I would like to know about Time Warner's internet service.
> 
> 
> 1. What it is the fastest speed according to speedtest.net?
> 
> 2. Is this speed constant?
> 
> 3. Is it reliable, is it always on or there ups and downs or outages?



I'm paying for "16 Mb" with an additional "turbo" speed for large files (e.g., when streaming 720p movies from Netflix). Speedtest.net has measured everything from "10" to "30" with it normally between 16-20. But, I never have issues streaming the HD movies; so I'm satisfied. I can't remember the last outage. Basically, doesn't normally happen more than a couple short periods during a year.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18952328
> 
> 
> 1. I forget, but their turbo is the fastest
> 
> 
> 2. No, it does depend upon how many people are using the internet but it's pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 3. I've had some issues a couple of times but overall in 6 years of using it I find it far more reliable then DSL. In my 8 years of DSL I had constant outages, for hours at a time. When I've had a problem with TW it usually doesn't involve more then resetting my modem.
> 
> 
> I haven't had a problem with them since my last issue, which turned out not to be there fault but my routers in over 6 monhs.
> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> 
> When I did have issues, they have come out and laid new underground cable for me.
> 
> 
> Never charged me a penny for service calls.
> 
> 
> And technical support from the phone actually is useful.





Thanks


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18960299
> 
> 
> It really depends on where you are. I have their 7 mbit service. In Cuyahoga Falls, it ran anywhere from 10 - 25 mbit. I transferred my service to Tallmadge, and now they can't seem to get it above 1 mbit during prime time. It's crazy aggravating, and multiple service calls haven't done jack.
> 
> 
> U-Verse: t-minus 3 weeks and counting.




Thanks


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/18961396
> 
> 
> I'm paying for "16 Mb" with an additional "turbo" speed for large files (e.g., when streaming 720p movies from Netflix). Speedtest.net has measured everything from "10" to "30" with it normally between 16-20. But, I never have issues streaming the HD movies; so I'm satisfied. I can't remember the last outage. Basically, doesn't normally happen more than a couple short periods during a year.




Thanks


----------



## Cathode Kid

If you have an 8300 DVR and you're in the north, you might notice a firmware upgrade tonight. Mostly feature tweaks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edjrwinnt* /forum/post/18957211
> 
> 
> Where did you hear this about the new DirecTiVo? I'm too lazy to search. The last I heard a few months ago was that neither company knew when it was coming out.
> 
> 
> The only thing I'll miss is the fast internet connection dumping Time Warner. I'm thinking maybe an IPAD with 3G may do though for my internet surfing.



One of the guys that I know in another forum who is an admin told me that he was getting it installed and he told me then that TiVo was coming for D*. I think he said third quarter but I'm not sure so I said third or fourth quarter.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18969900
> 
> 
> One of the guys that I know in another forum who is an admin told me that he was getting it installed and he told me then that TiVo was coming for D*. I think he said third quarter but I'm not sure so I said third or fourth quarter.



This entire thread is on the D* Tivo.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...highlight=TIVO


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlb* /forum/post/18971801
> 
> 
> This entire thread is on the D* Tivo.
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...highlight=TIVO



Well, what do you know it looks like I got some good info then!


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18971818
> 
> 
> Well, what do you know it looks like I got some good info then!



But the question is when is it coming? I'm interested.










And I'll bet hookbill will be renting a chainsaw then.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18971920
> 
> 
> But the question is when is it coming? I'm interested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I'll bet hookbill will be renting a chainsaw then.



If you click on the thread it says third quarter 2010. That would mean, ummmNOW!!!!










I don't know really, I hear that D* dvr is really good. The main thing I'd be looking at is how it allows you to transfer between devices, AKA Home Media Option.


Funny thing, even my TiVo that I thought the eSATA was going out on has been working perfectly since they shot that update to the tuner adapter. Makes me wonder if that had anything to do with the #fail of my beloved S3.


Yesterday I had to rescue the guy who cuts my lawn. Seems a bunch of wasps have made a nest in the cable box.


I told him he needs to call Time Warner..ROFLOL.


Internet and everything is working perfect, I'm not bugging those bees at all.


----------



## rlb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18972004
> 
> 
> I don't know really, I hear that D* dvr is really good. The main thing I'd be looking at is how it allows you to transfer between devices, AKA Home Media Option.



Following thread provides overview of Whole Home DVR Service which is I believe is DirecTV's equivalent of the Home Media Option.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=178068 

As I said in an earlier post, the play lists of all receivers can be integrated into one list (or optionally only show the list on the specific receiver). Only difference when playing recorded shows from another receiver is a maybe half second delay before "trick play" functions like fast forward, reverse, skip, etc.


It doesn't say much about networking with the computers; but the coaxial network is interfaced with internet and home computers. Network interface allows access to DirecTV's extensive file of movies, TV shows, etc. which are available for free download (they appear in the playlist like any recorded programming); or programming the receivers from a computer when you are away from home. Networking with computers allows showing photos or playing music.


Coaxial network is faster than wifi "n" network and supposedly the same speed as wired ethernet. I had the network installed a couple months ago and there hasn't been any problems. Only requirement other than normal dish and coaxial installation is addition of a small device that connects your internet router to the coaxial network.


----------



## hookbill

Well, since Time Warner just raised our rates will we lose ESPN in September 2nd? Highly doubtful but I just saw an ad from AT&T flashing Attention Time Warner Cable Subscribers.pitching their U-Verse which apparently most of us can't get.


But I wouldn't be surprised if it goes down to the last hour or an extension again.


----------



## nickdawg

Someone new just moved in down the street here and I saw a Crime Warner van in their driveway. Looks like CWC hooked another sucker!! LMAO










I really hope they don't have a HDTV or a Tivo!!










And I hope CWC *does* lose ESPN. That would be just the thing to kill that evil company.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18972004
> 
> 
> If you click on the thread it says third quarter 2010. That would mean, ummmNOW!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know really, I hear that D* dvr is really good. The main thing I'd be looking at is how it allows you to transfer between devices, AKA Home Media Option.
> 
> 
> Funny thing, even my TiVo that I thought the eSATA was going out on has been working perfectly since they shot that update to the tuner adapter. Makes me wonder if that had anything to do with the #fail of my beloved S3.
> 
> 
> Yesterday I had to rescue the guy who cuts my lawn. Seems a bunch of wasps have made a nest in the cable box.
> 
> 
> I told him he needs to call Time Warner..ROFLOL.
> 
> 
> Internet and everything is working perfect, I'm not bugging those bees at all.



Funny. I had a bee problem under my siding last year because of a hole CWC left behind.







They've installed a couple new 'drops' over the past few years, so...










As for D*, I've already downloaded and read the instructions for their DVR several times, virtual cover to cover. I could not believe it. Best way I could put it is like going from an etch a sketch to a macbook. It basically has the search features like Tivo, but packaged differently. And the home network thing. Even though I do not have a "home network", nor do I ever plan on having one anytime like, ever, I was still extremely impressed by it.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18978047
> 
> 
> Funny. I had a bee problem under my siding last year because of a hole CWC left behind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've installed a couple new 'drops' over the past few years, so...



I almost had the same problem. I had a contractor who was upset that I was making him internally wire my house (he wanted to run the wires along the outside of the house and punch a secondary entry point into the house). When he left, he left a quarter-plus sized hole in the side of my house with absolutely nothing to keep out insects or inclement weather. I made Time Warner send an employee out to fix it the next day.


All this happened after the guy tried to:

-Wire the house externally.

-Install a wireless router at the entry point of the house and sell me a wireless card for my desktop PC.

-Install that same router and card as a temporary fix, and then come back on his day off and "install the cabling for half the price that Time Warner would charge" off the books.


I can't wait for U-Verse to finish rolling out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18980835
> 
> 
> I almost had the same problem. I had a contractor who was upset that I was making him internally wire my house (he wanted to run the wires along the outside of the house and punch a secondary entry point into the house). When he left, he left a quarter-plus sized hole in the side of my house with absolutely nothing to keep out insects or inclement weather. I made Time Warner send an employee out to fix it the next day.
> 
> 
> All this happened after the guy tried to:
> 
> -Wire the house externally.
> 
> -Install a wireless router at the entry point of the house and sell me a wireless card for my desktop PC.
> 
> -Install that same router and card as a temporary fix, and then come back on his day off and "install the cabling for half the price that Time Warner would charge" off the books.
> 
> 
> I can't wait for U-Verse to finish rolling out.



The problem is that if you don't have AT&T providing phone service in your area then you won't get U-Verse period. Windstream areas will never see U-Verse


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/18980870
> 
> 
> The problem is that if you don't have AT&T providing phone service in your area then you won't get U-Verse period. Windstream areas will never see U-Verse



Yeah, I don't have that problem. The VRADs are popping up all over the place in my neighborhood, and I see AT&T trucks milling around frequently. I e-mailed the city's CIO and he informed me that they approved the roll-out in May.


Waiting anxiously.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/18980835
> 
> 
> I almost had the same problem. I had a contractor who was upset that I was making him internally wire my house (he wanted to run the wires along the outside of the house and punch a secondary entry point into the house). When he left, he left a quarter-plus sized hole in the side of my house with absolutely nothing to keep out insects or inclement weather. I made Time Warner send an employee out to fix it the next day.
> 
> 
> All this happened after the guy tried to:
> 
> -Wire the house externally.
> 
> -Install a wireless router at the entry point of the house and sell me a wireless card for my desktop PC.
> 
> -Install that same router and card as a temporary fix, and then come back on his day off and "install the cabling for half the price that Time Warner would charge" off the books.
> 
> 
> I can't wait for U-Verse to finish rolling out.



Wow, I guess I was right to always avoid TWC's internet service like the plague.










There's no excuse for running cables all over outside the house if there's basement access. And if they tried to sell me equipment I don't need, I would've canceled on the spot.


Where exactly are you "in the Akron area"? Because I'm in Akron, the northern side and still yet to see Uverse. I know part of Cuyahoga Fall had it a few years ago and I remember hearing somewhere in Stow had it a few years ago as well. I wonder why they're so slow rolling it out. As heavily as they advertise it now, they need to kick it up a bit.


OTA sucks and I'm afraid it's gonna be available at my house the day after I have a two year contract with satellite.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OTA sucks and I'm afraid [Uverse is] gonna be available at my house the day after I have a two year contract with satellite.



Uverse for TV is really cool for SD, but falls a bit short for HD. The HD PQ is said to be the worst around. You're also limited to only 2 live HD shows for your entire house (or 4 SD or 1 HD and 2 SD).


Satellite is a much better option for HD if you can see the southern sky.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18981713
> 
> 
> Where exactly are you "in the Akron area"? Because I'm in Akron, the northern side and still yet to see Uverse. I know part of Cuyahoga Fall had it a few years ago and I remember hearing somewhere in Stow had it a few years ago as well.



As you know, I live down the street from you...I checked U-verse availability a month or two back, and the CS rep said "not available yet, but will be in a few months". I wonder if this is what he was talking about. I am just inside the Akron city limits in that part of the old Northampton Twp. that looks like a drunk man drew the city limits map.


----------



## Vchat20

Good luck to all of you in AT&T territory. Wish they were around here. My brother has U-Verse at his place in Columbus and I love it. While the HD PQ isn't the GREATEST and the HD/SD stream limitations are annoying, it actually WORKS. If it was a choice between of that and TWC it'd be an easy pick for sure. Though sat service gives it a run for its money as long as you have the line of sight for it.


----------



## ErieMarty

is it getting worse..seems like most times if I change channels I need to adjust the volume..Either to reduce it so the neighbors don't hear what I am watching or so I can hear what they are saying


Is there anyway to balance the different channels.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/18981713
> 
> 
> Where exactly are you "in the Akron area"? Because I'm in Akron, the northern side and still yet to see Uverse. I know part of Cuyahoga Fall had it a few years ago and I remember hearing somewhere in Stow had it a few years ago as well. I wonder why they're so slow rolling it out. As heavily as they advertise it now, they need to kick it up a bit.



I live just inside Tallmadge next to Goodyear Heights. The roll-out is occurring for the city of Tallmadge.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/18981933
> 
> 
> Uverse for TV is really cool for SD, but falls a bit short for HD. The HD PQ is said to be the worst around. You're also limited to only 2 live HD shows for your entire house (or 4 SD or 1 HD and 2 SD).
> 
> 
> Satellite is a much better option for HD if you can see the southern sky.



I've heard this as well, but TV picture quality isn't nearly as important to me as is a fast, stable internet connection. And I only have one TV, so that works out okay.


----------



## WilliamR

Does anyone know if you can watch primetime on demand (such as NBC) in HD? If so, do you know what channel, I can't find my channel guide. I see the primetime on demand channel for NBC (like 400 or something) but all the shows are non-HD.


Northeast Ohio, macedonia area.


----------



## azporter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/18986400
> 
> 
> Good luck to all of you in AT&T territory. Wish they were around here. My brother has U-Verse at his place in Columbus and I love it. While the HD PQ isn't the GREATEST and the HD/SD stream limitations are annoying, it actually WORKS. If it was a choice between of that and TWC it'd be an easy pick for sure. Though sat service gives it a run for its money as long as you have the line of sight for it.



Our friends in Canal Winchester have it. PQ is disappointing and they have regular artifacts. Not impressive since they seem to have customer service problems in getting these issues addressed.


That said, I'd love to have another wired option. They seem to have three options there with WoW, TWC, and AT&T.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *azporter* /forum/post/19000550
> 
> 
> That said, I'd love to have another wired option. They seem to have three options there with WoW, TWC, and AT&T.



Some municipalities in Geauga and Portage counties have Suddenlink as another wired option. To look at the list, go to http://www.suddenlink.com/Areas_We_Serve_Landing.do and find the Northeast Ohio municipalities that have it. (The closest such municipality to Cuyahoga County is Bainbridge Township, listed as "Chagrin Falls" in the aforementioned list, but only for ZIP code 44023.)


----------



## WilliamR

I just noticed last night that they added the 4th fast forward feature. I accidently noticed it when I was fast forwarding a show.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/19006323
> 
> 
> I just noticed last night that they added the 4th fast forward feature. I accidently noticed it when I was fast forwarding a show.



I think that's been on there for quite some time. Even when I had my old SA 8300 they had updated the firmware with the fourth fast forward. They removed it but I'm sure that the version of firmware has long been surpassed. That was about 3 years ago.


----------



## hookbill

I know we have a few people here that have TiVo's and I want to make sure that you are aware of a deal you can get from TiVo for service.


$99.00 for lifetime. Now as you probably know that is the yearly service amount, but you can get lifetime. Send an email to [email protected] and politely say that you heard about an opportunity to get lifetime service for 99.00 and you want to find out if you can get the same offer.


Now if you just bought service they will adjust your service for you and change it to lifetime. If your subscription is due, (Mine is 9/28) then offer to pay the 99.00 price and ask them for lifetime.


They will call you and discuss it with you. They agreed to give me lifetime for the 99.00 on my new HD TiVo.


You will not get this deal if you call them! Do it by email only.


Sorry for the interruption, TWC people. We now can return to our regular topic of bashing Crime Warner Cable.


----------



## xcrunner529

ugh don't tempt me. No I'm not tempted. Even if I switch to W.O.W. (I'm in CBus now), I don't think it will help Tivo's "green screen" glitches, certain SDV channels randomly not working, lack of on-demand, etc. of the TiVo. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19006342
> 
> 
> I think that's been on there for quite some time. Even when I had my old SA 8300 they had updated the firmware with the fourth fast forward. They removed it but I'm sure that the version of firmware has long been surpassed. That was about 3 years ago.



No, they removed it when they rolled out the Navigator software and said it was coming back, just came back recently.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19007587
> 
> 
> ugh don't tempt me. No I'm not tempted. Even if I switch to W.O.W. (I'm in CBus now), I don't think it will help Tivo's "green screen" glitches, certain SDV channels randomly not working, lack of on-demand, etc. of the TiVo. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.



No on demand is true but there are no longer any glitches from SDV. That's been fixed.


Anyway that offer is for existing owners. I don't think you would get it if you were new.


Of course the TiVo Premier that they have now is pretty sweet. 1tb hard drive. And it's reasonably priced.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19007605
> 
> 
> No on demand is true but there are no longer any glitches from SDV. That's been fixed.
> 
> 
> Anyway that offer is for existing owners. I don't think you would get it if you were new.
> 
> 
> Of course the TiVo Premier that they have now is pretty sweet. 1tb hard drive. And it's reasonably priced.



OK.That makes sense.


----------



## mbclev

I found the following item in the Charlotte, NC TWC thread. I wonder if this feature will come to northeast Ohio.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19004930


----------



## xcrunner529

Hookbill, I have a TiVo HD currently and plan to sell it. Randomly I'll come home (this just happened last weekend) to a green screen and loud noise requiring a reboot. I haven't been able to watch Shark Week on Discovery all week (channel not available message), and I am still bitter about the TiVo freezing up and rebooting during Lost. I haven't had to have TW send the Tuning Adapter 'hits' for months now, though so I'm glad that piece of junk is working again.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19007693
> 
> 
> Hookbill, I have a TiVo HD currently and plan to sell it. Randomly I'll come home (this just happened last weekend) to a green screen and loud noise requiring a reboot. I haven't been able to watch Shark Week on Discovery all week (channel not available message), and I am still bitter about the TiVo freezing up and rebooting during Lost. I haven't had to have TW send the Tuning Adapter 'hits' for months now, though so I'm glad that piece of junk is working again.



Sounds like you've got a hard drive going out. Green screen and loud noise, that's exactly what happened with my eSATA. Green screen of death. It probably won't last much longer.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/19007603
> 
> 
> No, they removed it when they rolled out the Navigator software and said it was coming back, just came back recently.



lol, I noticed I quoted the wrong post.


This makes sense. What I quoted doesn't.


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19007729
> 
> 
> Sounds like you've got a hard drive going out. Green screen and loud noise, that's exactly what happened with my eSATA. Green screen of death. It probably won't last much longer.



Well, then I would be pissed since I just bought that eSata drive a few months ago. And does that explain the "channel not available" message?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19007743
> 
> 
> Well, then I would be pissed since I just bought that eSata drive a few months ago. And does that explain the "channel not available" message?



It might be the main hard drive. How old is the unit?


Channel not available message is a problem with Time Warner, not the TiVo. Are you suppose to get that channel?


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19007815
> 
> 
> It might be the main hard drive. How old is the unit?



I bought it refurbished from TiVo a year and half ago.



> Quote:
> Channel not available message is a problem with Time Warner, not the TiVo. Are you suppose to get that channel?



I see this all the time and I'm not sure why it would happen. Point is TW's boxes get the channel so I don't know if TW gives SDV priority to their own boxes or what, but I shouldn't have to worry about such things and I won't. Yes, Discovery is part of the normal digital lineup we have and this happens on random channels. Luckily Comedy Central seems to work most of the time. If it didn't I'd be throwing stuff.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19007832
> 
> 
> I bought it refurbished from TiVo a year and half ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see this all the time and I'm not sure why it would happen. Point is TW's boxes get the channel so I don't know if TW gives SDV priority to their own boxes or what, but I shouldn't have to worry about such things and I won't. Yes, Discovery is part of the normal digital lineup we have and this happens on random channels. Luckily Comedy Central seems to work most of the time. If it didn't I'd be throwing stuff.



Well with those loud noises you're talking about and green screens that makes me think you got a hard drive issue. The other part however has to do with TWC. Maybe you need them come out and check your signal. I never have a problem anymore with SDV channels. I don't see that message, which by the way I thought sounded strange. Usually the message is "Channel not available now, please try again later." Channel not available suggest that it's not getting a signal period.


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19008015
> 
> 
> Well with those loud noises you're talking about and green screens that makes me think you got a hard drive issue. The other part however has to do with TWC. Maybe you need them come out and check your signal. I never have a problem anymore with SDV channels. I don't see that message, which by the way I thought sounded strange. Usually the message is "Channel not available now, please try again later." Channel not available suggest that it's not getting a signal period.



Oh well, I'm moving out soon to another place and will probably get W.O.W. here in Columbus (they're cheaper) and I'll be getting HBO so I'd want the demand anyway. And for those wondering why I'm in this thread it's because I'm from this area and still am in a lot when I'm go home. And there's not an active Columbus thread here


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19008036
> 
> 
> Oh well, I'm moving out soon to another place and will probably get W.O.W. here in Columbus (they're cheaper) and I'll be getting HBO so I'd want the demand anyway. And for those wondering why I'm in this thread it's because I'm from this area and still am in a lot when I'm go home. And there's not an active Columbus thread here



If you really want an actual Tivo and a good TV service, wait a few months to see what Directv is going to say about their service. They've been saying that in Q3 or Q4 of this year Directv is bringing back their Tivo service. They really seem to be the cheapest. Between CWC(the most expensive) and Dish(I just didn't like their packages), D* seemed the best at this point.


And honestly, while that "it's a signal problem" can be true to a point, it's mostly just blowing sunshine up... I spent a good part of a year on their "signal problems" with SDV alone, had two new boxes, a new drop and a new cable pulled in my house. I still had the *exact* same problems with their SDV channels after that. Even up too April 2010 I occasionally had "channel not available" messages and I'm sure it goes on to this day, even if one has new wiring, "perfect" signal levels at the pole, a SNR of ~35-36 and a new box out of the crate.


----------



## xcrunner529

I personally consider DirecTV to be the best (and have the nicest interface) nickdawg, but a) I doubt the landlord would allow satellite since it's an apartment complex and b) I don't want to sign a 2yr contract and have to deal with 1 bill for TV and 1 bill for internet. It just seems like it'd be more expensive that way.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19009269
> 
> 
> I personally consider DirecTV to be the best (and have the nicest interface) nickdawg, but a) I doubt the landlord would allow satellite since it's an apartment complex and b) I don't want to sign a 2yr contract and have to deal with 1 bill for TV and 1 bill for internet. It just seems like it'd be more expensive that way.



I can't comment on the landlord issue, you'd have to check that out. But as far as two bills, I just learned yesterday while calling AT&T for something else that you can bundle D* with your phone/internet bill. And they even knock off $5 from the D* bill for bundling it. I'm not sure who the phone company is in Columbus, right? But if they are, that's an option.


As far as separate bills, I used to have TV from TWC and phone/internet from AT&T. Even if I made a buttload of long distance calls my AT&T bill would be nowhere near my TWC bill.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/19009405
> 
> 
> I can't comment on the landlord issue, you'd have to check that out. But as far as two bills, I just learned yesterday while calling AT&T for something else that you can bundle D* with your phone/internet bill. And they even knock off $5 from the D* bill for bundling it. I'm not sure who the phone company is in Columbus, right? But if they are, that's an option.
> 
> 
> As far as separate bills, I used to have TV from TWC and phone/internet from AT&T. Even if I made a buttload of long distance calls my AT&T bill would be nowhere near my TWC bill.



Phone company in columbus depends on which part of Col you are talking about. NE corner seems to be AT&T predominately. I believe Verizon may have other parts.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I doubt the landlord would allow satellite since it's an apartment complex



Check out OTARD. If you have exclusive use of an area (deck/patio) that has view of the southern sky, then you're free to get satellite.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xcrunner529* /forum/post/19008036
> 
> 
> Oh well, I'm moving out soon to another place and will probably get W.O.W. here in Columbus (they're cheaper).....



I use WOW here in Cleveland (cable, internet, phone) and it is very reliable for me. Initial hiccups on phone service was cleared up with a new drop.

Cable TV service seems more reliable than TWC, but does have occasional glitches.


The one area where I think WOW lags behind TWC is in overall channel offerings. WOW seems behind the curb on HD ch's and total number of ch's offered. Maybe that's why it costs less?


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19010999
> 
> 
> I use WOW here in Cleveland (cable, internet, phone) and it is very reliable for me. Initial hiccups on phone service was cleared up with a new drop.
> 
> Cable TV service seems more reliable than TWC, but does have occasional glitches.
> 
> 
> The one area where I think WOW lags behind TWC is in overall channel offerings. WOW seems behind the curb on HD ch's and total number of ch's offered. Maybe that's why it costs less?



Yes, I would be losing Comedy Central HD, which would really suck. I gave TW W.O.W.'s offer (~75-80 for digital cable w/HD DVR, 2mb internet, and HBO) and they offered me 7mb roadrunner, digital cable w/HDDVR for 74.80 and then I added HBO & Showtime for $16. That seems like a decent offer to me so I might take it.


----------



## xcrunner529




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19010990
> 
> 
> Check out OTARD. If you have exclusive use of an area (deck/patio) that has view of the southern sky, then you're free to get satellite.



Ya, I don't in this place. Indoor entrance and it's on the ground floor.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/19007603
> 
> 
> No, they removed it when they rolled out the Navigator software and said it was coming back, just came back recently.



Hrm. I have an 8640HDC and still only have 3 levels of FF/REW. Not that I am complaining -- it's proven to be much more reliable than the numerous 8300HDCs CWC has thrown my way.


----------



## KennedyJ

My TiVo S3 died yesterday and I am going to give the TWC dvr a chance while I make up my mind on whether to upgrade to the Premeire. What make model of dvr should I try to get from Twc? Can I use an eSata drive with any models?


Thanks for your input.


Jason


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/19041877
> 
> 
> My TiVo S3 died yesterday and I am going to give the TWC dvr a chance while I make up my mind on whether to upgrade to the Premeire. What make model of dvr should I try to get from Twc? Can I use an eSata drive with any models?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> 
> Jason



Well good luck getting the eSATA to work. The one with your S3 should work with SA box. But you are not going to be happy with that DVR after a TiVo. Then again you do get start over and on demand.


What happened to your S3? I still have mine. I don't know still if it was the eSATA that died or the S3 hard drive. I suspect it was the ESATA.


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19041981
> 
> 
> Well good luck getting the eSATA to work. The one with your S3 should work with SA box. But you are not going to be happy with that DVR after a TiVo. Then again you do get start over and on demand.
> 
> 
> What happened to your S3? I still have mine. I don't know still if it was the eSATA that died or the S3 hard drive. I suspect it was the ESATA.



Continual reboot loop on the S3. It was the internal drive on mine that went. I may fix it. Great box and it will be missed (I still have one HD left). But until I hear people raving about the premeire's HD interface, I'm gonna see how the competion has progressed over the last 10 years. Hopefully I can get the eSata working. That would almost be a show stopper if not.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/19042112
> 
> 
> I'm gonna see how the competion has progressed over the last 10 years.



Considering 10 years ago TWC was using the SARA DVR interface, I'd say the competition has *regressed* since they started using Navigator. It used to be a stable box that was capable of setting up manual recordings, now... Not anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/19042124
> 
> 
> Considering 10 years ago TWC was using the SARA DVR interface, I'd say the competition has *regressed* since they started using Navigator. It used to be a stable box that was capable of setting up manual recordings, now... Not anymore.



I've got one and while the interface has improved, search features are still miles.behind a TiVo. Try it though and see what you think.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/19042124
> 
> 
> Considering 10 years ago TWC was using the SARA DVR interface, I'd say the competition has *regressed* since they started using Navigator. It used to be a stable box that was capable of setting up manual recordings, now... Not anymore.



I have to say I am very happy with Navigator since my 8300 was switched over from SARA. The current implementation is no slower than SARA was and has many more useful features. For me, its plus-es definately outweigh its minus-es!


----------



## KennedyJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19042185
> 
> 
> I've got one and while the interface has improved, search features are still miles.behind a TiVo. Try it though and see what you think.



I played around with Navigator a bit at my in-laws and it seemed very useable. I do think I will miss TiVo Wishlists big time. In looking at the Navigator search features, I couldn't conceive of a way to schedule recordings of All Live Nascar Sprint Cup Races, or similarily All Live Buckeye games. Anyone manage to do anything like this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/19043311
> 
> 
> I played around with Navigator a bit at my in-laws and it seemed very useable. I do think I will miss TiVo Wishlists big time. In looking at the Navigator search features, I couldn't conceive of a way to schedule recordings of All Live Nascar Sprint Cup Races, or similarily All Live Buckeye games. Anyone manage to do anything like this?



No, it's very much set up like a VCR really. You pick the show to record, that's about it.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KennedyJ* /forum/post/19043311
> 
> 
> I played around with Navigator a bit at my in-laws and it seemed very useable. I do think I will miss TiVo Wishlists big time. In looking at the Navigator search features, I couldn't conceive of a way to schedule recordings of All Live Nascar Sprint Cup Races, or similarily All Live Buckeye games. Anyone manage to do anything like this?



It depends if it recognizes it as a "series" or not. Series recording has options for NEW or all and ALL TIMES and a specific time. That might do what you are asking....


----------



## Flexia

I am soon moving and would like to pick up all local channels coming from cleveland. It has a few hi-band VHF. My house pictured faces sound so all the trees behind it are in the signal direction. I just am looking for the best antenna for me to be able to get VHF and UHF in the North direction from cleveland. I was looking at the Winegard HD7696p or the

Antennacraft HBU33. If there is something better let me know.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Flexia* /forum/post/19072517
> 
> 
> I am soon moving and would like to pick up all local channels coming from cleveland. It has a few hi-band VHF. My house pictured faces sound so all the trees behind it are in the signal direction. I just am looking for the best antenna for me to be able to get VHF and UHF in the North direction from cleveland. I was looking at the Winegard HD7696p or the
> 
> Antennacraft HBU33. If there is something better let me know.




I think you are in the wrong thread. You want the OTA thread. This is for Time Warner Cable.


----------



## ErieMarty

anything new on Time Warner adding the NFL Network to its list of channels??


I Can't believe after all of these years Time Warner and the NFL Network can't come to some agreement to add the channel..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/19092923
> 
> 
> anything new on Time Warner adding the NFL Network to its list of channels??
> 
> 
> I Can't believe after all of these years Time Warner and the NFL Network can't come to some agreement to add the channel..



Perhaps you forgot what the problem is. TW wants to add it to their sports package. NFL says no.


----------



## toadfannc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19092982
> 
> 
> Perhaps you forgot what the problem is. TW wants to add it to their sports package. NFL says no.



Yep, until one side budges on this point-- it doesn't really matter who else adds it. TWC doesn't care.


----------



## ErieMarty

TW would put it on the Basic or digital package and just up the monthly cost by $2.00 or $3.00 per month and they would be making as much as if they put it on the sports package...


Because this way everyone would be forced to buy it. Not just NFL Fans during the year..


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/19096904
> 
> 
> TW would put it on the Basic or digital package and just up the monthly cost by $2.00 or $3.00 per month and they would be making as much as if they put it on the sports package...
> 
> 
> Because this way everyone would be forced to buy it. Not just NFL Fans during the year..



And I don't want to pay for it!


----------



## shooter21198

NFLN Related topic

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1271386 


In related news it's been a long time since us TWC subscribers got any new HD channels does anyone have a clue why they stopped adding channels.

My only guess is they are still trying to get all subscribers on the same page.


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/19098249
> 
> 
> And I don't want to pay for it!



how many things right now on your system you are paying for and you dont' watch..


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/19102220
> 
> 
> how many things right now on your system you are paying for and you dont' watch..



Too many, so lets not pile on more crap that we won't watch while increasing basic cable rates.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/19100836
> 
> 
> NFLN Related topic
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1271386
> 
> 
> In related news it's been a long time since us TWC subscribers got any new HD channels does anyone have a clue why they stopped adding channels.
> 
> My only guess is they are still trying to get all subscribers on the same page.



My guess would be deal expirations. We stopped getting new channels right as we started the new year, which is when they're renegotiating carriage. That might prevent HD deals as well, and not every negotiation is as high profile as the FOX one, so we wouldn't necessarily be aware of it as consumers.


Just a guess.


----------



## abcmatt

Was the Denver/Pittsburgh game letterboxed on WJW SD last night? I didn't get a chance to check. If not, I guess I'm going to have to call TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/19122716
> 
> 
> Was the Denver/Pittsburgh game letterboxed on WJW SD last night? I didn't get a chance to check. If not, I guess I'm going to have to call TWC.



Yes, in HD as well. Why wouldn't have been?


Wait, I thought that was on WNEW.


----------



## hookbill

Hey I've noticed that I'm getting a lot of that "channel not available" stuff. Last night it started around 445 and went up to 477. I was wondering if this is just the tuner adapters seeing this or if the TW boxes are doing it. I checked the learning channel and it was on the SA 8300 and when I got back to my TiVo it was back on there too.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19122728
> 
> 
> Yes, in HD as well. Why wouldn't have been?
> 
> 
> Wait, I thought that was on WNEW.



Mine wasn't letterboxed.


And maybe it was, I don't know anyone from Jupiter to ask to see though.


----------



## abcmatt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19122728
> 
> 
> Yes, in HD as well. Why wouldn't have been?
> 
> 
> Wait, I thought that was on WNEW.



I was talking about the standard definition WJW. FOX is using AFD and the MLB games hadn't been letterboxed and I haven't checked if they made any progress.


----------



## shooter21198

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1271005 

Fox NFL Sunday info


----------



## shooter21198

New HD Channel on Time Warner Cable today ESPN Goal Line the only downside is it is a subscription based channel.


> Quote:
> ESPN and Time Warner Cable Launch New College Football Live Cut-In and Highlights Channel – ESPN Goal Line
> 
> 
> On September 4, ESPN will launch ESPN Goal Line, a new HD network available at launch to Time Warner Cable Sports Tier and Bright House Networks subscribers. ESPN Goal Line features unlimited live cut-ins and highlights from numerous top college football games during each Saturday of the college football season, plus up-to-the-minute commentary from ESPN analysts and experts, including ESPNEWS anchor Anish Shroff, who will serve as the primary host, and Rod Gilmore, who will be the main analyst. Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks customers will be the first to have access to ESPN Goal Line.
> 
> 
> Games featured on ESPN Goal Line will include those airing on ESPN’s family of networks, as well as syndicated and locally-produced games from Football Bowl Subdivision conferences, capturing the best live action of the day.
> 
> 
> For the 2010 season, the ESPN Goal Line programming will be weekends only, starting Saturdays at Noon ET until games are complete, around 11:30 pm ET. A similar service called Buzzer Beater is planned in time for college basketball season.


----------



## terryfoster

Now that a new contract has been signed, does anyone know when we'll see ESPN3.com authorized?


----------



## hookbill

I don't know if you guys remember me posting about this a while back. I mentioned how all of a sudden ESPN HD was no longer in Dolby 5.1. It still isn't, although according to people in other areas it is. Well, I just tuned in to ESPN 2 HD and my Dolby 5.1 light lit up. Went to ESPN HD, still only showing Dolby 2.0 (stereo).


Further I know for a fact that TBS HD use to be in Dolby 5.1 and it no longer is. What is going on?


ESPN HD, no Dolby but ESPN 2 HD does. TBS HD no longer Dolby but it use to be. And MLBnet HD last year was in Dolby 5.1.


It just doesn't make sense. Cathode Kid, can you explain?


We should get ESPN 3 eventually. Well at least most of you will since all of us TiVo people are still on the old line up. I thought I read they are dropping their Spanish ESPN broadcast.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19149929
> 
> 
> We should get ESPN 3 eventually. Well at least most of you will since all of us TiVo people are still on the old line up.



ESPN3.com is a web site that falls outside of the cable lineups (formerly ESPN360.com).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19155245
> 
> 
> ESPN3.com is a web site that falls outside of the cable lineups (formerly ESPN360.com).



I could have sworn I heard that ESPN 3 was taking the place of the ESPN Desportes (sp?).


I'll take you at your word, sir.


----------



## hookbill

So yesterday I decided since I hadn't heard anything from Cathode Kid to maybe shoot an email out to my contact and see what she had to say about them suddenly not being in Dolby 5.1 (ESPN and TBS HD).


She shot me back a email saying they were going to look into it. That was around 8:00 this morning. I just got another email asking me to take a look at it they had done some tweaks. Sure enough, both of those channels are now in 5.1.


I still think MLBnet is suppose to be in Dolby 5.1 but I think Ken H said no, it's 2.0. I know it was 5.1 last year.


So tell me guys am I the only one with surround sound? Nobody else noticed this? I mean this has gone on all Summer long and nobody else complained about it?


Or maybe it was just my house? Seems strange, anyway that's fixed.


Now I got her working on trying to figure out why I'm getting "channel not available" SDV messages from time to time. She's indicating that she thinks it's cable card related, but I've seen the same problem on the SA 8300. So hopefully she will figure that out too.


----------



## CLEHD

I have a TiVo Series 3 HD and I am thinking of upgrading my TWC to their digital and HD package (there is a RR speed increase in there as well, not affecting TV decision). What say ye?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19162779
> 
> 
> I have a TiVo Series 3 HD and I am thinking of upgrading my TWC to their digital and HD package (there is a RR speed increase in there as well, not affecting TV decision). What say ye?



Their "HD" package is 3 or 4 extra channels of garbage, IMHO. I'm sure you already have their regular digital package if you have a S3.


But sometimes it works out cheaper when you bundle. I have their fastest RR speed but I don't have their HD TV package, I dropped that 2 or 3 years ago.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19162803
> 
> 
> Their "HD" package is 3 or 4 extra channels of garbage, IMHO. I'm sure you already have their regular digital package if you have a S3.
> 
> 
> But sometimes it works out cheaper when you bundle. I have their fastest RR speed but I don't have their HD TV package, I dropped that 2 or 3 years ago.



Right now, all I have is channels 1-99 essentially. The only HD channels that I get are the OTA ones. The package about which I am speaking would give me like 300 channels. I am sorry for the confusion. Knowing that, what say ye?


I was also looking into U-verse, but I have seen things in my browsing that say that their HD picture quality is not the best. Anyone know anything about that?


It is basically the TWC package mentioned above and RR with PowerBoost vs. U-verse U200 and their 3 Mbps internet.


Thanks!


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19162961
> 
> 
> Right now, all I have is channels 1-99 essentially. The only HD channels that I get are the OTA ones. The package about which I am speaking would give me like 300 channels. I am sorry for the confusion. Knowing that, what say ye?
> 
> 
> I was also looking into U-verse, but I have seen things in my browsing that say that their HD picture quality is not the best. Anyone know anything about that?
> 
> 
> It is basically the TWC package mentioned above and RR with PowerBoost vs. U-verse U200 and their 3 Mbps internet.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I am not too crazy about TWC's reputation of "negotiating" (see: FOX Sports Ohio HD, NFL Network, and to a degree ABC/Disney and FOX). Should that be a substantial factor in the decision?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19163000
> 
> 
> I am not too crazy about TWC's reputation of "negotiating" (see: FOX Sports Ohio HD, NFL Network, and to a degree ABC/Disney and FOX). Should that be a substantial factor in the decision?



Well, the truth is in a way they are fighting to keep prices down. The networks if they have their way would get rid of all OTA transmissions and just use the cable/satellite companies to transmit services. I don't think you'll ever see the NFL Network on TWC because they insist they carry it as part of their sports package and the NFL has said no. Many times. Good for the NFL


Comcrap cable and the Satellites have to do the same thing too.


I'll say this, TWC's internet is great, much better then DSL. Their television, that's another story. Specially for TiVo owners.


Once you get everything set up, it's really not too bad. The problem however is it kind of depends upon where you live how good your service is. If you look a couple of threads back you will see me talking about how they haven't been delivering the 5.1 signal for months on ESPN HD and TBS HD. Until I contacted someone who I have an email address for on the inside they were completely unaware.


TiVo owners need a tuner adapter so that the cable cards can receive the signal on their digital channels, including HD that are on Switched Digital Video. Up until a couple of months ago, this was a nightmare as our boxes were constantly disconnecting but they have fixed that. Still other problems can happen that are area related. Many people say they get a "channel not available" message when they tune to a HD channel. I was getting that last week, but again I know someone inside so I got it fixed. It was a problem with the hub so it wasn't just me but many people in my area.


If you call customer service you get a bunch of idiots who really don't know how their system works, and add TiVo into the mix and it can become a real adventure.


If I were you and you have a clear line of site I would keep the internet and forget about your S3 and go with Satellite. Direct TV is suppose to be getting TiVo again very soon from what I hear.


Still having said all that if all you've been getting is basic cable you're missing out on quite a bit of stuff. Just be prepared for a lot of blank stares and make sure when they come out to install you TiVo cable card that they bring out a tuner adapter too. Most of the time they won't and without that tuner adapter you can't see at least 3/4 of their digital programming.


Also with a TiVo you can forget about Time Warners "Start over" and On Demand. TiVo can't communicate that way. Personally I would never use either one of them so no big deal. That's what I have a DVR for, to watch what I want when I want to.


Headaches, yes, but I'd rather have it then just OTA. Not enough choice there.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19163099
> 
> 
> Well, the truth is in a way they are fighting to keep prices down. The networks if they have their way would get rid of all OTA transmissions and just use the cable/satellite companies to transmit services. I don't think you'll ever see the NFL Network on TWC because they insist they carry it as part of their sports package and the NFL has said no. Many times. Good for the NFL
> 
> 
> Comcrap cable and the Satellites have to do the same thing too.
> 
> 
> I'll say this, TWC's internet is great, much better then DSL. Their television, that's another story. Specially for TiVo owners.
> 
> 
> Once you get everything set up, it's really not too bad. The problem however is it kind of depends upon where you live how good your service is. If you look a couple of threads back you will see me talking about how they haven't been delivering the 5.1 signal for months on ESPN HD and TBS HD. Until I contacted someone who I have an email address for on the inside they were completely unaware.
> 
> 
> TiVo owners need a tuner adapter so that the cable cards can receive the signal on their digital channels, including HD that are on Switched Digital Video. Up until a couple of months ago, this was a nightmare as our boxes were constantly disconnecting but they have fixed that. Still other problems can happen that are area related. Many people say they get a "channel not available" message when they tune to a HD channel. I was getting that last week, but again I know someone inside so I got it fixed. It was a problem with the hub so it wasn't just me but many people in my area.
> 
> 
> If you call customer service you get a bunch of idiots who really don't know how their system works, and add TiVo into the mix and it can become a real adventure.
> 
> 
> If I were you and you have a clear line of site I would keep the internet and forget about your S3 and go with Satellite. Direct TV is suppose to be getting TiVo again very soon from what I hear.
> 
> 
> Still having said all that if all you've been getting is basic cable you're missing out on quite a bit of stuff. Just be prepared for a lot of blank stares and make sure when they come out to install you TiVo cable card that they bring out a tuner adapter too. Most of the time they won't and without that tuner adapter you can't see at least 3/4 of their digital programming.
> 
> 
> Also with a TiVo you can forget about Time Warners "Start over" and On Demand. TiVo can't communicate that way. Personally I would never use either one of them so no big deal. That's what I have a DVR for, to watch what I want when I want to.
> 
> 
> Headaches, yes, but I'd rather have it then just OTA. Not enough choice there.



First of all, thanks for the quick and detailed response.


I have read a lot of positive things about TWC's internet, so that part has become more of a no-brainer. I am sure that I will appreciate the boost.


I am really between TWC and U-verse. Satellite is really not an option at this point. It seems that DirecTv is the way to go, but there is that big initial outlay for HD equipment and such. Maybe somewhere down the road it will be a more viable, realistic option. But, at this point in time it is not.


One of the reasons that DirecTv is not an option, and one strike against U-verse, is that I just got my Tivo S3 a couple of months ago. So, I don't want to cast it aside completely. At least with the cable card option it remains in play until, again, maybe somewhere down the road when I can re-assess my situation.


I will be sure to make a point of the tuning adapter being included on the work order. I just hope that they know to what I am referring when I ask about it. I am not bothered by the fact that I will be unable to do "Start Over" and On Demand. Question: Is PPV also a no-go on the S3? Again, not a deal breaker, but I am curious.


I know that TWC is not known for their customer service. Speaking to the sales rep on the phone proved that. He had to go check with his supervisor for darn near every question I asked. But, I got the information that I needed out of him eventually. I fear that this lack of knowledge of their product(s) may haunt me through the installation and beyond...


All-in-all, as you said I have been missing out on quite a bit so this would be better than where I am now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19163379
> 
> 
> First of all, thanks for the quick and detailed response.
> 
> 
> I have read a lot of positive things about TWC's internet, so that part has become more of a no-brainer. I am sure that I will appreciate the boost.
> 
> 
> I am really between TWC and U-verse. Satellite is really not an option at this point. It seems that DirecTv is the way to go, but there is that big initial outlay for HD equipment and such. Maybe somewhere down the road it will be a more viable, realistic option. But, at this point in time it is not.
> 
> 
> One of the reasons that DirecTv is not an option, and one strike against U-verse, is that I just got my Tivo S3 a couple of months ago. So, I don't want to cast it aside completely. At least with the cable card option it remains in play until, again, maybe somewhere down the road when I can re-assess my situation.
> 
> 
> I will be sure to make a point of the tuning adapter being included on the work order. I just hope that they know to what I am referring when I ask about it. I am not bothered by the fact that I will be unable to do "Start Over" and On Demand. Question: Is PPV also a no-go on the S3? Again, not a deal breaker, but I am curious.
> 
> 
> I know that TWC is not known for their customer service. Speaking to the sales rep on the phone proved that. He had to go check with his supervisor for darn near every question I asked. But, I got the information that I needed out of him eventually. I fear that this lack of knowledge of their product(s) may haunt me through the installation and beyond...
> 
> 
> All-in-all, as you said I have been missing out on quite a bit so this would be better than where I am now.



You just got an S3? They haven't been selling those for years, you must have bought a refurb.


I mean it's a great TiVo. I mentioned cable card. I forgot, S3 is going to require 2 cable cards, not just one. TiVo HD you can get by with one. Something else you'll need to make them aware of.


Good luck, be aware as I said to possibly run into some road blocks with the TiVo install. Make sure they put on the work order that you need 2 cable cards and the tuner adapter. Last person I talked to who got an install of his TiVo the tech didn't know what he was talking about when he asked about the tuner adapter. The tech also did not know what SDV was.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19163410
> 
> 
> You just got an S3? They haven't been selling those for years, you must have bought a refurb.
> 
> 
> I mean it's a great TiVo. I mentioned cable card. I forgot, S3 is going to require 2 cable cards, not just one. TiVo HD you can get by with one. Something else you'll need to make them aware of.
> 
> 
> Good luck, be aware as I said to possibly run into some road blocks with the TiVo install. Make sure they put on the work order that you need 2 cable cards and the tuner adapter. Last person I talked to who got an install of his TiVo the tech didn't know what he was talking about when he asked about the tuner adapter. The tech also did not know what SDV was.



Yes, I got a refurb. I wasn't ready to make the $300 leap into the Premiere.


I am a bit confused, however. The front of the unit says "HD" (there is the little TiVo logo guy with the "HD" next to him (see attachment)). But, under TiVo Central-Messages & Settings-Account & System Information-System Information it says that "Platform" is "Series3". So, it is the S3 (which requires the two cable cards) and not an HD?


----------



## CLEHD

I apologize if I am being a pest.


As the unit is set up right now (coax straight into the TiVo), I have issues where I will turn on the TiVo and all the channels will be gray. The HD channels tend not to go out, and if I switch tuners the other tuner doesn't seem to be effected. I have to restart the TiVo to undo this. I contacted TiVo and they are aware of this issue. They say that it has something to do with SD channels, that if the TiVo stays tuned to a SD channel for too long a time this happens. Their suggestion is to leave TiVo suggestions on so that the unit is constantly switching the channel. Anyway, is this issue going to persist once I would get the cable card(s)? Have you, or anyone else, had this issue with the cable card installed?


Thanks!


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19163478
> 
> 
> Yes, I got a refurb. I wasn't ready to make the $300 leap into the Premiere.
> 
> 
> I am a bit confused, however. The front of the unit says "HD" (there is the little TiVo logo guy with the "HD" next to him (see attachment)). But, under TiVo Central-Messages & Settings-Account & System Information-System Information it says that "Platform" is "Series3". So, it is the S3 (which requires the two cable cards) and not an HD?



Did some research on TiVo's site. I logged in to my account and it tells me that I have a TiVo HD. Also, based on the attached comparison of the two, mine looks like it is the HD. That being said, TiVo's site says that the HD requires either one M-card or two S-cards. I checked TWC's site, but was unable to find out what type of card they use. Do you know? I can ask the CSR, but I fear that I may confuse him.


Does this change your opinion at all? I apologize for all of the confusion.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19164550
> 
> 
> Did some research on TiVo's site. I logged in to my account and it tells me that I have a TiVo HD. Also, based on the attached comparison of the two, mine looks like it is the HD. That being said, TiVo's site says that the HD requires either one M-card or two S-cards. I checked TWC's site, but was unable to find out what type of card they use. Do you know? I can ask the CSR, but I fear that I may confuse him.
> 
> 
> Does this change your opinion at all? I apologize for all of the confusion.



IIRC from past discussions on here the few different sets of Tivo hardware shared the same software so may be where the 'Series 3' moniker is coming from on your Tivo HD box.


As far as the cablecards go I believe TWC has both types but just depends on many factors as to what you'll get. Hookbill would definitely know more though and I believe he also has the cablecard hotline number handy in case things go awry during your install.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/19164555
> 
> 
> IIRC from past discussions on here the few different sets of Tivo hardware shared the same software so may be where the 'Series 3' moniker is coming from on your Tivo HD box.
> 
> 
> As far as the cablecards go I believe TWC has both types but just depends on many factors as to what you'll get. Hookbill would definitely know more though and I believe he also has the cablecard hotline number handy in case things go awry during your install.



Thanks for the useful info. I guess it is settled then that I have a TiVo HD. That being the case, I have the option of one M-card or two S-cards. Is one option better than the other? I did a little research and while I did not find much, what I did see seems to indicate the M-card route over dual S-card route. Agree or disagree?


That cablecard hotline number could prove to be quite handy.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19164766
> 
> 
> Thanks for the useful info. I guess it is settled then that I have a TiVo HD. That being the case, I have the option of one M-card or two S-cards. Is one option better than the other? I did a little research and while I did not find much, what I did see seems to indicate the M-card route over dual S-card route. Agree or disagree?
> 
> 
> That cablecard hotline number could prove to be quite handy.



You want the M-card because you will get charged a rental fee for each card you have so 2 S-cards means double the rental fee. Another reason is that sometimes TWC must re-pair the card with your TiVo with 2 cards its double the trouble.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/19169100
> 
> 
> You want the M-card because you will get charged a rental fee for each card you have so 2 S-cards means double the rental fee. Another reason is that sometimes TWC must re-pair the card with your TiVo with 2 cards its double the trouble.



He will get the M card but the S3 MUST use 2 cards. It is not designed to work off a single dual M card. The HD TiVo came after the S3 and even though they share the same platform the S3 needs two cards even if they are M cards.


----------



## bgillyjcu

God I hate timewarner here in Cleveland. We get NO 1080P. We get NO new HD channels that every other TV company gives their customers. They lock us in 2 years otherwise we pay out the ass! They better really step up their game or in a year when I'm out of my deal I am going elsewhere!


Also...anyone that has seen my sig....thanks for checking out my new blog and please join the facebook page. This is a passion of mine that I've had for about 5 years now and I'm going after it. Please support me in this endeavor as you all have done on this forum for nearly 7 years!!!


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19169136
> 
> 
> He will get the M card but the S3 MUST use 2 cards. It is not designed to work off a single dual M card. The HD TiVo came after the S3 and even though they share the same platform the S3 needs two cards even if they are M cards.



I know he has an HD from both his message that I replied to and the picture he posted in a previous post.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19164766
> 
> 
> Thanks for the useful info. I guess it is settled then that *I have a TiVo HD*. That being the case, I have the option of one M-card or two S-cards. Is one option better than the other? I did a little research and while I did not find much, what I did see seems to indicate the M-card route over dual S-card route. Agree or disagree?
> 
> 
> That cablecard hotline number could prove to be quite handy.



He will get what ever the installer brings out unless he is informed. An installer tried to give my parents an s-cards 6 months ago for a TiVo HD.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgillyjcu* /forum/post/19169164
> 
> 
> God I hate timewarner here in Cleveland. We get NO 1080P. We get NO new HD channels that every other TV company gives their customers. They lock us in 2 years otherwise we pay out the ass! They better really step up their game or in a year when I'm out of my deal I am going elsewhere!
> 
> 
> Also...anyone that has seen my sig....thanks for checking out my new blog and please join the facebook page. This is a passion of mine that I've had for about 5 years now and I'm going after it. Please support me in this endeavor as you all have done on this forum for nearly 7 years!!!



Not that I am defending TWC here...


Not a single subscription tv provider today does 1080p on their regular broadcast channels. This is because none of the networks are broadcasting in anything past 1080i and probably won't for some time to come due to compatibility. The only 1080p you may see is the rare VOD offering and I emphasise rare. I am a Dish customer and there's maybe a dozen or two 1080p listings in the VOD selection and they are your usual overhyped and overbudgeted hollywood blockbuster. Not to mention with the existing compression seen on many sub tv providers, 1080p is going to have nil quality improvement over 1080i. And most tv's made in the past couple years have really good deinterlacing engines so you aren't going to see any issues or quality difference. Hell, I have a cheapo budget model Panasonic PX80 unit from '08 and can't tell you how many times I have watched fast action content on 1080i channels and have never once seen an interlacing artifact slip through.


----------



## bgillyjcu

no dd on espnhd is horrible. Why did they do it. When I call to complain they play dumb and say it is my fault. When I try to explain it isn't they just deny it.


What is WORSE is that I use Auto Decoding from my Receiver. When it goes from 5.1 to 2.0 it REALLY sucks ass and so I have to change it to always be 5.1.


ESPN3. Seriously. My MOM gets it with Comcast. Why can I not get it with TW! That really pisses me off.


Cooking Channel....where is it? Again another channel that others have and we don't.


I don't really care about the 1080p to be honest right now. But ESPNHD in 1080p on my 100 inch screen would be SICK! The 1080i is ok...really 720p looks better to my eyes because of the progressive refresh rate being better than interlaced.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/19169250
> 
> 
> I know he has an HD from both his message that I replied to and the picture he posted in a previous post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He will get what ever the installer brings out unless he is informed. An installer tried to give my parents an s-cards 6 months ago for a TiVo HD.



A service tech came out today. I was having issues with my internet. Anyways, he was a very knowledgeable guy. I asked him some questions regarding the cable card. He says that TWC really does not have S-cards anymore. They do, but only for TVs which support cable cards, which are becoming fewer and far between. I also asked a sales rep on the phone and he also confirmed that it would be an M-card. Interestingly, the service tech said that TWC does not support the TiVo Premiere, just the Series3 and HD. He actually knew just from looking at the TiVo that they support it. At worst, they bring both and I would get the M-card. Just to be sure, I will be sure to request an M-card on the service order.


Edit: On a side note, the service tech also told me that I would need the tuning adapter (which I knew and also shows his knowledge level). But, I guess TWC still requires you to go online to request, that they do not bring one at initial install. Hopefully I can request it ahead of time so that it arrives around the time of install for me to install. I have read on here that they won't send it out until the cable card is actually installed. I hope that is not the case. Anyone know?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19156290
> 
> 
> ........ shoot an email out to my contact and see what she had to say about them suddenly not being in Dolby 5.1 (ESPN and TBS HD).........



If it helps, I'm on WOW Cable and our ESPN-HD, ESPN2-HD, TBS-HD are all DD 5.1. So obviously these are being broadcast in DD 5.1.

But where in the TWC chain this is being mucked up is anyone's guess. Sat feed to TWC? Audio engineering reconverting to 2.0?


If the audio is being reprocessed several times (DD 5.1 to 2.0 to PL 5.1) you could very well start to hear digitized artifacts.

Proper digital 2.0 audio delivery, un-messed with, can sound very good.


Anyway, maybe some ammunition for your future correspondence with TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19170228
> 
> 
> If it helps, I'm on WOW Cable and our ESPN-HD, ESPN2-HD, TBS-HD are all DD 5.1. So obviously these are being broadcast in DD 5.1.
> 
> But where in the TWC chain this is being mucked up is anyone's guess. Sat feed to TWC? Audio engineering reconverting to 2.0?
> 
> 
> If the audio is being reprocessed several times (DD 5.1 to 2.0 to PL 5.1) you could very well start to hear digitized artifacts.
> 
> Proper digital 2.0 audio delivery, un-messed with, can sound very good.
> 
> 
> Anyway, maybe some ammunition for your future correspondence with TWC.



Well, we got the ESPN AND TBS issues straightened out. I sent her another email concerning MLBnet HD. It too is broadcast in Dolby 5.1 and we are not receiving the signal. I actually called MLBnet and spoke to engineering and they confirmed they broadcast in 5.1.


My contact told me that they have no way of monitoring these things and unless someone complains that's the only way they find out there is an issue. Can you imagine trying to explain this to a TWC CSR? It would be a nightmare.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19169544
> 
> 
> A service tech came out today. I was having issues with my internet. Anyways, he was a very knowledgeable guy. I asked him some questions regarding the cable card. He says that TWC really does not have S-cards anymore. They do, but only for TVs which support cable cards, which are becoming fewer and far between. I also asked a sales rep on the phone and he also confirmed that it would be an M-card. Interestingly, the service tech said that TWC does not support the TiVo Premiere, just the Series3 and HD. He actually knew just from looking at the TiVo that they support it. At worst, they bring both and I would get the M-card. Just to be sure, I will be sure to request an M-card on the service order.
> 
> 
> Edit: On a side note, the service tech also told me that I would need the tuning adapter (which I knew and also shows his knowledge level). But, I guess TWC still requires you to go online to request, that they do not bring one at initial install. Hopefully I can request it ahead of time so that it arrives around the time of install for me to install. I have read on here that they won't send it out until the cable card is actually installed. I hope that is not the case. Anyone know?



First whether they bring you an M card or an S card doesn't matter. You're still going to need two of them. An M card is not going to improve anything over the S card.


Your "knowledgable" tech is dead wrong about support with the TiVo Premiere. They HAVE to support it, they don't have a say on that. And why wouldn't they, it's cable card powered just like the S3 and HD TiVo?


He probably simply isn't aware of the TiVo Premiere. He might be thinking that's an older model or something. TWC will support it.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19170381
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> My contact told me that they have no way of monitoring these things and unless someone complains that's the only way they find out there is an issue. Can you imagine trying to explain this to a TWC CSR? It would be a nightmare.



TWC CSR: "so, sir, what you are telling me is that when you are watching MLB HD that 3 of your speakers are playing audio from a different TV channel?"


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19170386
> 
> 
> First whether they bring you an M card or an S card doesn't matter. You're still going to need two of them. An M card is not going to improve anything over the S card.
> 
> 
> Your "knowledgable" tech is dead wrong about support with the TiVo Premiere. They HAVE to support it, they don't have a say on that. And why wouldn't they, it's cable card powered just like the S3 and HD TiVo?
> 
> 
> He probably simply isn't aware of the TiVo Premiere. He might be thinking that's an older model or something. TWC will support it.



I don't know how often TWC updates their website, but there is no mention of the Premiere on there.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...CableCARD-into 


I found the following on TiVo's site:

http://www.tivo.com/buytivo/faqs/abo...ecarddecoders/ 


"In order to record two channels at once on a TiVo HD or TiVo HD XL box, *you'll need either one Multi-stream CableCARD or two Single-stream CableCARDs.* If you have a Premiere or a Premiere XL, you'll need one Multi-stream CableCARD to watch your HD and digital cable channels."


The manual for the HD also says this.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19170908
> 
> 
> I don't know how often TWC updates their website, but there is no mention of the Premiere on there.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...CableCARD-into
> 
> 
> I found the following on TiVo's site:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/buytivo/faqs/abo...ecarddecoders/
> 
> 
> "In order to record two channels at once on a TiVo HD or TiVo HD XL box, *you'll need either one Multi-stream CableCARD or two Single-stream CableCARDs.* If you have a Premiere or a Premiere XL, you'll need one Multi-stream CableCARD to watch your HD and digital cable channels."
> 
> 
> The manual for the HD also says this.



I take it back. After much effort (being transferred several times) on their online chat feature I was able to find out that I would need two M or S-cards. I wonder why that is given that TiVo says that only one M-card is required.


----------



## RonOhio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19171834
> 
> 
> I take it back. After much effort (being transferred several times) on their online chat feature I was able to find out that I would need two M or S-cards. I wonder why that is given that TiVo says that only one M-card is required.


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19163478 


If this is a picture of your TiVo then it is a TiVo HD. A TiVo HD only needs one M-card. The TiVo HD still runs on the Series 3 software platform but it has upgraded hardware thats can use a single M-card for both tuners.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/19173941
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19163478
> 
> 
> If this is a picture of your TiVo then it is a TiVo HD. A TiVo HD only needs one M-card. The TiVo HD still runs on the Series 3 software platform but it has upgraded hardware thats can use a single M-card for both tuners.



OK, now I don't know what to believe.







Hookbill and the TWC rep say two, you and TiVo say one. The rep was aware that I have a HD, and she still told me two. I guess the installer can bring two and if he only needs to install one, then he can install only one.


----------



## bgillyjcu

ESPNHD finally is back in DD 5.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I hope this stays!


----------



## bgillyjcu

Anyone else very happy about that they have finally fixed the ESPNHD problem?


----------



## Dweezilz

For any soccer fans out there, Time Warner will add Fox Soccer Channel HD to Northeast Ohio by December according to a CSR I just chatted with. They've already added it in California this past week and we are next up.


Probably most of you won't care, but for those that love to watch the EPL or Italian soccer leagues, this is GREAT news! Can't wait to watch my boys from AC Milan in HD!


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/19179921
> 
> 
> For any soccer fans out there, Time Warner will add Fox Soccer Channel HD to Northeast Ohio by December according to a CSR I just chatted with. They've already added it in California this past week and we are next up.
> 
> 
> Probably most of you won't care, but for those that love to watch the EPL or Italian soccer leagues, this is GREAT news! Can't wait to watch my boys from AC Milan in HD!



It will probably take a couple more years to get Fox Soccer Plus after this now.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgillyjcu* /forum/post/19179441
> 
> 
> Anyone else very happy about that they have finally fixed the ESPNHD problem?



I, for one, also am glad. It was always so strange when I would watch and it would not be in DD but every other station around it was. I asked once a long time ago why this was but got no answer so thanks for helping me stay sane.


----------



## Speedskater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgillyjcu* /forum/post/19179441
> 
> 
> Anyone else very happy about that they have finally fixed the ESPNHD problem?



No.

When I watch most sports shows, I switch the audio to Mono to reduce the crowd (or engine) noise.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Speedskater* /forum/post/19191372
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> When I watch most sports shows, I switch the audio to Mono to reduce the crowd (or engine) noise.



Being in the center of the crowd is part of the fun, specially in football games.


As far as 5.1 returning, I was their contact to see if they had made the correct adjustments. I knew about it seconds after it happened.


I also have them working on trying to fix MLBnet HD. That too broadcasts in Dolby 5.1 and TW needs to fix that signal. For some reason that one is harder to fix then ESPN and TBS.


I'm also wondering if there are other Dolby 5.1 HD channels showing up as 2.0. Like A&E, I've never seen that one in Dolby 5.1. But that may be TWC's fault.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19173958
> 
> 
> OK, now I don't know what to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hookbill and the TWC rep say two, you and TiVo say one. The rep was aware that I have a HD, and she still told me two. I guess the installer can bring two and if he only needs to install one, then he can install only one.



If you have an S3 you need two cards. It will not work any other way.


The S3 looks totally different then the TiVo HD. It has a front display with the name of the show currently recording. If you don't have that then you have a TiVo HD. A TiVo HD only needs one card.


If your display has two red lights that come on (or one) for recordings then that would be a TiVo HD.


----------



## bgillyjcu

Hookbill I'm also a member of Droidforums.net! What phone do you have? I have the Droid X.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgillyjcu* /forum/post/19191970
> 
> 
> Hookbill I'm also a member of Droidforums.net! What phone do you have? I have the Droid X.



I know who you are. I made a comment about the Rusty Bucket in a thread over there to you.. I'm an Smod over there. I have the D2.


----------



## bgillyjcu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19191988
> 
> 
> I know who you are. I made a comment about the Rusty Bucket in a thread over there to you.. I'm an Smod over there. I have the D2.



I didn't put two and two together until now. I'm glad you are going to try it out. Be sure to follow my blog...I'll give you some great places to eat and some great beer suggestions as well.


----------



## bgillyjcu

Go browns!!!!


----------



## bgillyjcu

Has this thread died? I'm posting to myself now!


How bad were the browns! Did anyone else think the PQ of the game was lacking a bit?


----------



## CLEHD

First of all, the Browns look a lot better than last year. They were completely *unbearable* to watch the beginning of last year. At least they are in games the first two weeks this year. Now, as for the Baltimore game this week...


OK, for everyone who contributed to and followed my TiVo install posts on here over the past few weeks, I have an update. The tuning adapter (TA) came today completing the TiVo install. I have one M-Card and the TA for the TiVo HD. The installer brought out two S-Cards for my install, but after having some issues at the time of the install he grabbed an M-Card that he had with him and used that. He was on the phone with the CABLECard support who told him that my machine (the HD) was meant to use an M-Card anyways. So, I watched what channels I got and did not worry about what other ones did not come in until I got the TA and the set-up was complete. Monday Night Football in HD is candy to the eyes. The TA came today, one day after install as I had pre-ordered it. I had an issue in that the LED light would not stop blinking as it should, per the instructions. I called TWC, who were helpful, and while I was on the phone with them the thing just started working (TiVo recognized it). It just took *really* long. Now I have all of the channels that I should on the TiVo, albeit in the old order (HD's start in the 400's vs. the 1000's)


Let me say this as a side note of sorts, the installer was A+ in my opinion. He really took the time to make sure that everything was working before he left, was a really friendly guy. He put himself behind schedule-wise because he refused to leave before figuring out the TiVo issue.


----------



## bgillyjcu

The 2nd half of both these games was nearly unwatchable.


The PQ didn't help. I hate that there is such a difference with TWC in PQ from HD channel to HD channel. Don't they notice this?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgillyjcu* /forum/post/19235176
> 
> 
> The 2nd half of both these games was nearly unwatchable.
> 
> 
> The PQ didn't help. I hate that there is such a difference with TWC in PQ from HD channel to HD channel. Don't they notice this?



I don't notice it. But I'm so use to HD now I don't even think about pq anymore.


Right now my major bone I want to pick with them is why they aren't delivering MLBNET HD in Dolby 5.1. How difficult can that be?


----------



## bgillyjcu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19235317
> 
> 
> I don't notice it. But I'm so use to HD now I don't even think about pq anymore.
> 
> 
> Right now my major bone I want to pick with them is why they aren't delivering MLBNET HD in Dolby 5.1. How difficult can that be?




+1! I agree that is annoying. I also wish we had NFLHD!


----------



## CLEHD

I have tried to find some articles on the web regarding this issue, but most of what I have found is from 2005 or 2007 and I am sure that technology has changed a bit since then. What kind of cable(s) do you use for your cable box/TiVo? I just wanted to see what others on here have. It seems that it is really a personal, case-by-case basis as to which is better. But, I was curious to see what actual TWC customers in the area think. Is one set-up more prevalent than the other? Is there a sentiment toward one connection being better than the other? That type of thing. Also, I am interested more in video vs. audio as I do not have an elaborate audio set-up.


Here's my info (if you want to include yours too for comparison's sake, that would be nice):


Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC HD-DVR

HDMI

Samsung PN50A510 (1080p)


TiVo HD

HDMI

Panasonic TC-P42X1 (720p)


----------



## toby10

CLEHD,

Try both connection types and see for yourself. Component is fully capable of 1080p (cable HD will only be 720p/1080i). In most cases with properly calibrated inputs there is little or no difference in picture quality between HDMI and Component.


Because there is little (if any) difference many will choose Component over HDMI for cable TV usage to utilize audio output to both the TV and the AVR for surround purposes. Most (maybe all?) cable boxes make HDMI an "all or nothing" proposition in that if using HDMI then the other outputs (audio and video) are disabled, which limits audio to just the TV.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19251783
> 
> 
> CLEHD,
> 
> Try both connection types and see for yourself. Component is fully capable of 1080p (cable HD will only be 720p/1080i). In most cases with properly calibrated inputs there is little or no difference in picture quality between HDMI and Component.
> 
> 
> Because there is little (if any) difference many will choose Component over HDMI for cable TV usage to utilize audio output to both the TV and the AVR for surround purposes. Most (maybe all?) cable boxes make HDMI an "all or nothing" proposition in that if using HDMI then the other outputs (audio and video) are disabled, which limits audio to just the TV.



I say go with HDMI. Less cable to worry about. And you can still run your digital audio to your sound system.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19251793
> 
> 
> I say go with HDMI. Less cable to worry about. And you can still run your digital audio to your sound system.



Yes, assuming your TV does not limit it's digital audio out to 2 ch. which is true on (guessing) 90% of HDTV's.










If using the HDTV's own tuner (cable, OTA, QAM) they usually allow 5.1 digital audio output.

If using any outside input on the TV (cable box, sat box, etc..) the digital audio out is limited to 2 ch.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19251793
> 
> 
> I say go with HDMI. Less cable to worry about. And you can still run your digital audio to your sound system.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19251783
> 
> 
> CLEHD,
> 
> Try both connection types and see for yourself. Component is fully capable of 1080p (cable HD will only be 720p/1080i). In most cases with properly calibrated inputs there is little or no difference in picture quality between HDMI and Component.
> 
> 
> Because there is little (if any) difference many will choose Component over HDMI for cable TV usage to utilize audio output to both the TV and the AVR for surround purposes. Most (maybe all?) cable boxes make HDMI an "all or nothing" proposition in that if using HDMI then the other outputs (audio and video) are disabled, which limits audio to just the TV.



Thanks. Like I said, audio is not a big issue right now. I plan to upgrade in the (possibly near) future. hookbill, is there a way to disable HDMI-only audio a la toby10's point above? I have heard of that issue, but if there would be a way to disable it I would definitely have to check it out.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19252012
> 
> 
> Thanks. Like I said, audio is not a big issue right now. I plan to upgrade in the (possibly near) future. hookbill, is there a way to disable HDMI-only audio a la toby10's point above? I have heard of that issue, but if there would be a way to disable it I would definitely have to check it out.



Highly unlikely this can be changed in the cable box audio menu's.

This is the draw back to HDMI "all or nothing" restrictions on cable boxes.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19255305
> 
> 
> Highly unlikely this can be changed in the cable box audio menu's.
> 
> This is the draw back to HDMI "all or nothing" restrictions on cable boxes.



I was looking through the user manual for my Panny (I haven't checked the Samsung) and there is a line which reads, "When audio from other equipment connected to this unit via HDMI is output using 'DIGITAL OPTICAL OUT' of this unit, the system switches to 2CH audio." But, there is a line later in the book which reads, "You can enjoy your home theater by connecting a Dolby Digital (5.1 channel) decoder and 'Multi-Channel' amplifier to the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminals." I think that this is referring to OTA channels, as a couple of sentences later it mentions that output will be Dolby Digital for ATSC channels and output will be PCM for NTSC channels. I am not 100% sure exactly what PCM is (even after a quick web search, as I am not an audio buff), but I thought that point was worth mentioning.


So, am I to believe that if/when I decide to go a more extensive audio set-up I will have to make the change from HDMI to component?


----------



## toby10

If you want cable box audio to both TV and AVR (5.1) then yes, you cannot use HDMI to the TV.

However, your future AVR will have Dolby ProLogic II which can convert the 2 ch digital out from the TV into 5.1, and that sounds decent, but it's not the real 5.1.

For a cable ch that is 5.1 your TV will convert it to 2 ch then your AVR can convert it back to 5.1

That's a lot of conversions and can lead to audible digital artifacts.


My advice: Use HDMI now, worry about 5.1 surround from your cable box when you are actually ready to updrade your AVR.










And do not EVER buy HDMI cables (or any A/V cables if possible) retail, buy from a Monoprice.com or BlueJeansCables.com


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19251298
> 
> 
> Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HDC HD-DVR



I have the same cable box as yours, connected to a Toshiba 720p set. I found that component video was softer and less detailed than HDMI, no matter what resolution the box was sending to my TV. Adjusting the SHARPNESS control on the TV did not help matters--it caused other troubles. So I have stuck with HDMI, and I have the box set to transmit all channels in 1080i--the pic is no different than 720p, and there is no display as I switch channels, as there is when the box is set to send whatever resolution it's getting from the box.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/19258777
> 
> 
> I have the same cable box as yours, connected to a Toshiba 720p set. I found that component video was softer and less detailed than HDMI, no matter what resolution the box was sending to my TV. Adjusting the SHARPNESS control on the TV did not help matters--it caused other troubles. So I have stuck with HDMI, and I have the box set to transmit all channels in 1080i--the pic is no different than 720p, and there is no display as I switch channels, as there is when the box is set to send whatever resolution it's getting from the box.



While the constant "Searching for Signal" does get annoying, I prefer to have the STB let the signal go through unconverted and let the TV do the conversion. The reason being to avoid multiple conversions.


Why don't you have your STB set to output at 720p, your TV's native resolution? Having it set to 1080i as it is now, everything has to be converted:


SD signal = once to 1080i by STB, then back to 720p by TV

720p signal = once to 1080i by STB, then back to 720p by TV

1080i signal = to 720p by TV


If you set it to output 720p, then SD's and 1080i's would only need one conversion and 720p's basically none. That seems more efficient to me.


If someone on here is more knowledgeable and can explain to me that my reasoning is flawed, I am open to hearing it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19262511
> 
> 
> While the constant "Searching for Signal" does get annoying, I prefer to have the STB let the signal go through unconverted and let the TV do the conversion. The reason being to avoid multiple conversions.
> 
> 
> Why don't you have your STB set to output at 720p, your TV's native resolution? Having it set to 1080i as it is now, everything has to be converted:
> 
> 
> SD signal = once to 1080i by STB, then back to 720p by TV
> 
> 720p signal = once to 1080i by STB, then back to 720p by TV
> 
> 1080i signal = to 720p by TV
> 
> 
> If you set it to output 720p, then SD's and 1080i's would only need one conversion and 720p's basically none. That seems more efficient to me.
> 
> 
> If someone on here is more knowledgeable and can explain to me that my reasoning is flawed, I am open to hearing it.



It might be more efficient, that's my logic too. But I've tried it both ways and quite honestly I don't see a dimes worth of difference.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19262547
> 
> 
> It might be more efficient, that's my logic too. But I've tried it both ways and quite honestly I don't see a dimes worth of difference.



Hmm, interesting. While "Searching for Signal" can get annoying, as petty as it may seem I know that it would linger in the back of my mind knowing I had the signal being converted more times than necessary. haha


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19262689
> 
> 
> Hmm, interesting. While "Searching for Signal" can get annoying, as petty as it may seem I know that it would linger in the back of my mind knowing I had the signal being converted more times than necessary. haha



I haven't been paying that close of attention, but why would you get a searching for signal message? I don't get that.


Now I was getting the "channel not available, try again later message" but that now seems to be resolved. You shouldn't see a searching for signal message, I would think if you are that you ought to have TW check your signal to make sure you are running correctly.


By the way, PCM means Post Code Modulation.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19262735
> 
> 
> I haven't been paying that close of attention, but why would you get a searching for signal message? I don't get that.
> 
> 
> Now I was getting the "channel not available, try again later message" but that now seems to be resolved. You shouldn't see a searching for signal message, I would think if you are that you ought to have TW check your signal to make sure you are running correctly.
> 
> 
> By the way, PCM means Post Code Modulation.



I can see how that was confusing. The "Searching for Signals" message is from the TV, not the STB. It is what the Samsung says whenever I switch between two channels that are different resolutions since I let the signal go through in its original format. For example, on Sundays when I switch from CBS (1080i) to FOX (720p) this comes up momentarily. I have a friend in Minnesota who I was visiting who has DirecTv and that is when I first saw it (he has a Samsung as well). So, I knew that it was a TV-thing, not a STB-thing. My Panny does the same thing with the TiVo, only there is no message (the screen just goes gray for a moment).


----------



## toby10

I agree, have the box send the unaltered signal, let the TV do the upscaling. Cable boxes are very cheap and usually have awful video processing.

I see a noticeable difference on my two TV's with the box set to passthrough.


But, as always, compare for yourself.










You will get momentary *gobbly-***** on the screen when you are switching between unlike resolution ch's, but it's very quick on my TV's.

No error or searching for signal either, that doesn't sound right.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19262735
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> By the way, PCM means Post Code Modulation.



PCM = Pulse Code Modulation, it's the basis for digital audio including CD's


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19264331
> 
> 
> PCM = Pulse Code Modulation, it's the basis for digital audio including CD's



I googled it. It said post. Not going to argue, just saying that's how I found out what it is.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19264312
> 
> 
> I agree, have the box send the unaltered signal, let the TV do the upscaling. Cable boxes are very cheap and usually have awful video processing.
> 
> I see a noticeable difference on my two TV's with the box set to passthrough.
> 
> 
> But, as always, compare for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will get momentary *gobbly-***** on the screen when you are switching between unlike resolution ch's, but it's very quick on my TV's.
> 
> No error or searching for signal either, that doesn't sound right.



I never got an error message. Like I said, I think it is just how the Samsungs act when switching from one resolution to another. I am not concerned. Plus, found a similar topic on another AVS forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...152474&page=25 and this was one of the replies, "It's the TV. You can't do anything else about it. Use your cable directly into the TV (QAM tuning) or use an antenna and it will do the same when it changes channels of different resolutions (NBC vs. Fox). Samsung, Sharp (that I have used) and I am sure nearly all other brands will do it."


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19264379
> 
> 
> I googled it. It said post. Not going to argue, just saying that's how I found out what it is.



Yeah, that's the danger of our Google world. There is so much bogus info out there and any kook with a keyboard can create such misinformation.










Note: The above is a comment on internet BS, not on my friend Hook.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19264416
> 
> 
> .... and I am sure nearly all other brands will do it."



I can only speak for my Panny and NEC plasma's, neither does this.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19264501
> 
> 
> I can only speak for my Panny and NEC plasma's, neither does this.



I can speak to Panny's as well. Like I had mentioned in one of my prior posts, the screen just goes gray for a 1-1.5 secs if switching from 1080i to 720p (or vice versa) or SD to HD. It is connected via HDMI to the TiVo (same set-up for Samsung [HDMI to STB]).


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19262511
> 
> 
> Why don't you have your STB set to output at 720p, your TV's native resolution? Having it set to 1080i as it is now, everything has to be converted:...
> 
> If someone on here is more knowledgeable and can explain to me that my reasoning is flawed, I am open to hearing it.



Okay, then listen up










720p sets are really not 720 lines. They all have a native resolution of 1,366x768 pixels --in other words, they are 768p, even though they are commonly called 720p. Thus, _all_ HD signals are being converted in the TV to 768p. See the chart labeled "HDTV display resolutions" in this recent CNET article: http://reviews.cnet.com/hdtv-resolution/


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/19269786
> 
> 
> Okay, then listen up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 720p sets are really not 720 lines. They all have a native resolution of 1,366x768 pixels --in other words, they are 768p, even though they are commonly called 720p. Thus, _all_ HD signals are being converted in the TV to 768p. See the chart labeled "HDTV display resolutions" in this recent CNET article: http://reviews.cnet.com/hdtv-resolution/



Technicalities, technicalities...


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19264312
> 
> 
> I agree, have the box send the unaltered signal, let the TV do the upscaling. Cable boxes are very cheap and usually have awful video processing.
> 
> I see a noticeable difference on my two TV's with the box set to passthrough.
> 
> 
> But, as always, compare for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will *get momentary *gobbly-***** on the screen* when you are switching between unlike resolution ch's, but it's very quick on my TV's.
> 
> No error or searching for signal either, that doesn't sound right.



^^^ this is what i get on my panny s1 plasma when i switch channels too.


i prefer to let the tv convert the signal based on the recommendations here. even though i too don't see a difference.


the only thing i swear by is to have the tv receive sd-signal so i can set the cable box to stretch and not have the black side bars (lots of nick jr. is shown because of my 3yr old, lol).


----------



## CLEHD

pabarach's comment got me to thinking. He is correct about the "768p" thing (that's why I just let the signal pass through and let the TV do its thing, allowing for the one conversion). Now, I know some of you are going to think, "What the heck is wrong with you? You actually sit around and think of this s***t?" Well, the answer is that yes I do. Here is what is on my mind:


Would a 720p or 1080i signal be better for a 768p TV? 720p would essentially not be enough to fill the TV whereas the 1080i would have enough and then some (I know that it is 540x2/sec. and if that makes a difference vs. straight 1080p then my thinking is debunked), but 720p is closer to the native number of lines which would make one think that it would require less of a "reach" in terms of hitting the 768 number. If it were 720p vs. 1080p (which is not a real choice given broadcasts only in 720p or 1080i), then the too little/too much point is more apples-to-apples as interlacing is removed from the equation, but still "creating" 48 lines of "compressing" 312 lines, which seems to _theoretically_ be the better route?


My head is hurting just writing all of that. Overthinking?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/19269786
> 
> *Most* 720p sets are really not 720 lines. *Many* have a native resolution of 1,366x768 pixels --in other words, they are 768p, even though they are commonly called 720p.



There, I fixed that for you.


Now, one thing that hasn't been brought up in this discussion is overscan. I know there are some displays that supposedly show all of the provided signal with no overscan, but the majority of consumer grade HDTVs have some amount of overscan. So, the picture is being scaled regardless of the native resolution of the display and the provided signal.


So, the debate comes down to how many times an image can be scaled without a noticeable impact on the PQ. I personally believe the answer comes down to the user's preference with their equipment.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19270534
> 
> 
> .............
> 
> My head is hurting just writing all of that. Overthinking?



Yes.










Like all of this type of discussion, it is very subjective and the outcome depends on so many factors that there is no definitive answer for all use cases.

Try it yourself, compare yourself, decide for yourself which is best for *your* viewing (equipment, environment, eyes).


For *me* and the many friends, family, neighbors I have assisted with HDTV setup and advice there are very rare instances where a cable/sat box did a BETTER job of upscaling than the TV itself. This is assuming the HDTV in question is a somewhat recent model, well made name brand HDTV. The only two times I saw the opposite (box did a better job than the TV) was with very crappy HDTV's (one was a Westinghouse, can't remember the other one) and that was years ago.


In some cases there was little (if any) difference, in most cases the TV did better. So for me, when in doubt, I say let the TV do it as this is what it was made for. If using recent/decent gear I just don't see where a cable box would do it better. Whether you actually see a difference is subjective.










But DO compare yourself.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19272367
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all of this type of discussion, it is very subjective and the outcome depends on so many factors that there is no definitive answer for all use cases.
> 
> Try it yourself, compare yourself, decide for yourself which is best for *your* viewing (equipment, environment, eyes)......



When I went through this gyration (over 5 years ago, now!) I found there was very little if any discernable difference between feeding my (720p RPLCD) Panny a pass-through from the SA8300HD or a fixed 720p or 1080i signal for HD programming. However, there was a huge difference with clarity of SD signals. I found the best setting for SD rendering on my system was to use a fixed 720p output from the cable box. This is using component video, since I am feeding a 5.1 sound system optically from the SA8300HD as well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *k2rj* /forum/post/19272626
> 
> 
> When I went through this gyration (over 5 years ago, now!) I found there was very little if any discernable difference between feeding my (720p RPLCD) Panny a pass-through from the SA8300HD or a fixed 720p or 1080i signal for HD programming. However, there was a huge difference with clarity of SD signals. I found the best setting for SD rendering on my system was to use a fixed 720p output from the cable box. This is using component video, since I am feeding a 5.1 sound system optically from the SA8300HD as well.



I use a 720 hybrid on my main TV and 720 fixed on my other televisions. I don't like the side panels that 720 fixed leaves on SD shows. I think that's offered on the SA8300 but I'm not certain.


Somebody had mentioned that cable DVR's us cheap tuners, very true concerning cable's DVR's not true with TiVo's. The quality of a TiVo DVR tuner IMHO is superior to that of the SA8300.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19272649
> 
> 
> ......
> 
> Somebody had mentioned that cable DVR's us cheap tuners, very true concerning cable's DVR's not true with TiVo's. The quality of a TiVo DVR tuner IMHO is superior to that of the SA8300.



I don't even use TiVo but I would certainly agree with this.


What is still seriously lacking in the cable biz is the consumers choice to buy whatever hardware box they choose and have it universally compatible with any/all cable providers (meeting minimum standardized cable specs and requiring the cable co's M-card or Cable Card). I'd gladly pay up to $200 for a very good cable box universally compatible with any cable co's services. By all means offer the budget boxes too ($50) for those that don't care. Heck, I'd bet a $50 off the shelf consumer cable box would outperform the crappy SA spec boxes the cable co's force on us.










I don't want to start the TiVo debate again, I simply don't want to have to "subscribe" to any such service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19273176
> 
> 
> I don't even use TiVo but I would certainly agree with this.
> 
> 
> What is still seriously lacking in the cable biz is the consumers choice to buy whatever hardware box they choose and have it universally compatible with any/all cable providers (meeting minimum standardized cable specs and requiring the cable co's M-card or Cable Card). I'd gladly pay up to $200 for a very good cable box universally compatible with any cable co's services. By all means offer the budget boxes too ($50) for those that don't care. Heck, I'd bet a $50 off the shelf consumer cable box would outperform the crappy SA spec boxes the cable co's force on us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to start the TiVo debate again, I simply don't want to have to "subscribe" to any such service.




Understandable and just for the record I wasn't trying to start a TiVo vs SA 8300 thingWe've all had enough of that.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

 http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngnotices.html 


> Quote:
> On or after October 19, 2010, Investigation Discovery HD and History International HD will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Variety package.
> 
> On or after November 10, 2010, Primetime on Demand HD will be added to HD.



A few more HD channels are coming our way. Still no TruTV HD though.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/19303726
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngnotices.html
> 
> 
> A few more HD channels are coming our way. Still no TruTV HD though.



Good to hear.


Edit: After reading the article more in-depth, maybe not so good. I understand that it is probably a requirement, but they have a decent list of channels that may be cut off soon. Is this something that they normally do (that is, list a bunch of channels with which the agreements are ending soon and may dropped)?


----------



## CLEHD

Has anyone else noticed problems with TBS HD during the MLB playoffs? I have had the minor pixelation issues for sure, but a couple of times the signal went completely nuts and even cut out completely for a period.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19305579
> 
> 
> Is this something that they normally do (that is, list a bunch of channels with which the agreements are ending soon and may dropped)?



Yes, they issue a list like this periodically because legally they have to tell us this is going on. The list doesn't predict which agreements will eventually be reached (nearly all of them are).


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19305579
> 
> 
> Good to hear.
> 
> 
> Edit: After reading the article more in-depth, maybe not so good. I understand that it is probably a requirement, but they have a decent list of channels that may be cut off soon. Is this something that they normally do (that is, list a bunch of channels with which the agreements are ending soon and may dropped)?



Most of the channels on that list have been there since before the beginning of this year. It's indicative of ongoing negotiations between Time Warner Cable and the content providers over carriage fees. Not every negotiation is high profile and volatile like the Fox ordeal. They're just legally required to disclose that there's a potential loss of service if no deal can be made.


Speaking of which, since TruTV is up for negotiation, that probably has a lot to do with why they haven't rolled out the HD version to us.


----------



## hookbill

I'm just wondering where they are planning on putting these hd channels for us TiVo people. Grrrrrrr. If they don't find a spot the emails will be flying.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19308667
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering where they are planning on putting these hd channels for us TiVo people. Grrrrrrr. If they don't find a spot the emails will be flying.



As a fellow TiVo'er I am with you. Let me know what you find out and I will do the same.


----------



## CLEHD

I have contacted both TWC and ESPN regarding when us TWC internet subscribers will have access to ESPN3.com. I have not received a response yet (I literally emailed them a minute ago). When/If I get a response I will pass it along. If anyone on here already has some news about this, let me know.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19310573
> 
> 
> I have contacted both TWC and ESPN regarding when us TWC internet subscribers will have access to ESPN3.com. I have not received a response yet (I literally emailed them a minute ago). When/If I get a response I will pass it along. If anyone on here already has some news about this, let me know.



They're working on setting up the authentication system. Also, it sounds like it will be made available to video subscribers, not to all HSI subscribers:

http://www.twcableuntangled.com/2010...-to-implement/ 


@TWCable_NEO is much more helpful than the typical CSR.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19311182
> 
> 
> They're working on setting up the authentication system. Also, it sounds like it will be made available to video subscribers, not to all HSI subscribers:
> 
> http://www.twcableuntangled.com/2010...-to-implement/
> 
> 
> @TWCable_NEO is much more helpful than the typical CSR.



Typical TWC, always having to be different (in a bad way). "...impose the service..."? The best that I know ESPN3 is a free service (no additional membership required), so how is that imposing? If someone choose to use it or not it is there if they want it, it is not being shoved down their throat. I am sure that the additional fee is buried somewhere, but what a bunch of pompous a**holes. Plus, he says that the they are being slowed by the authentication process? Every ISP on ESPN3.com uses an authentication process. I would assume that ESPN is good-to-go as it relates to that, but TWC needs to get their s**t together to get this out.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19311182
> 
> 
> They're working on setting up the authentication system. Also, it sounds like it will be made available to video subscribers, not to all HSI subscribers:
> 
> http://www.twcableuntangled.com/2010...-to-implement/
> 
> 
> @TWCable_NEO is much more helpful than the typical CSR.



It also appears that they have disabled comments on this topic, seeing as every single one is negative. What a bunch of losers. Is this company run by monkeys?


----------



## nickdawg

I just saw an attachment in the current bill that says Oxygen and MTV2 are getting the ax. MTV2 is moving into the digital tier and Oxygen will still be in standard service, but require a cable box to view. WTF?? Does that mean they're gonna make standard service customers pay for a channel they cannot view? Oh, and I've seen that ESPN Classic is moving into the sports tier. Looks like CWC is still desperate to make more people buy extra tiers and sell more cable boxes.


Some things never change, do they.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/19312984
> 
> 
> I just saw an attachment in the current bill that says Oxygen and MTV2 are getting the ax. MTV2 is moving into the digital tier and Oxygen will still be in standard service, but require a cable box to view. WTF?? Does that mean they're gonna make standard service customers pay for a channel they cannot view? Oh, and I've seen that ESPN Classic is moving into the sports tier. Looks like CWC is still desperate to make more people buy extra tiers and sell more cable boxes.
> 
> 
> Some things never change, do they.



Moving two channels that take up bandwidth and neither have decent programing is a bad thing?


ESPNClassic being moved was a Disney decision as they want ESPNU moved into the basic package.


----------



## Goldenager62

HD channels going on and off today and yesterday.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Sports content is the only thing stopping most would-be cable cutters. Time Warner Cable knows it, and they'll do anything to keep you on that cash cow of a cable subscription. Locking ESPN3 down to video subscribers is one way to do it. Same thing with how you can get NBA League Pass but your local games are blacked out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19310541
> 
> 
> As a fellow TiVo'er I am with you. Let me know what you find out and I will do the same.



I was thinking about this yesterday. After channel 408 the HD section is clear all the way up to 430. So there are plenty of spots open for more channels.


nickdawg, I've actually been worried about you. I know how you love to take shots at Crime Warner, I was wondering if you were ok.


----------



## mbclev

Is there any chance that Fox Sports Ohio HD will be returning in time for the Cavaliers season? (HD channels 1309 [the main FS Ohio channel] and 1310 [the alternate channel] were removed just about when the Cavs season was over.)


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/19321769
> 
> 
> Is there any chance that Fox Sports Ohio HD will be returning in time for the Cavaliers season? (HD channels 1309 [the main FS Ohio channel] and 1310 [the alternate channel] were removed just about when the Cavs season was over.)



I was wondering about that also. The first Cavalier game scheduled on FSOHIO HD is for the 19th, one week away.


----------



## Goldenager62

Now we have have no cable at all, all channels out.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19324468
> 
> 
> Now we have have no cable at all, all channels out.



Well, I don't know about tv but the internet is up.


Cable TV is working too. Must be just your area.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19324486
> 
> 
> Well, I don't know about tv but the internet is up.



I don't have their internet, so I don't know about that.

When I called it in to Time Warner, they said it was in my area.


----------



## ed1202

From www.engadget.com 


The long awaited rule changes pertaining to CableCARDs that was originally proposed in the FCC's Broadband Plan finally got some resolve today, we have to say we're not convinced things will get that much better. While the FCC failed to kill Tuning Adapters or make the CableLabs certification process any less painful, it did make some changes, which include:


CableCARD fees have to be the same for everyone, no matter which package you have.

If your cable company allows any self installs, they must allow CableCARD self-installs.

Cable companies must support SDV for CableCARD users -- this was implied before, now it is black and white.

By default, all new deployments must be M-Cards (unless you actually request a S-Card).

Cable companies can include an IP interface in set-top-boxes leui of a 1394 port.

One way HD boxes without CableCARDs are no longer forbidden and they don't require IP interfaces.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19323218
> 
> 
> I was wondering about that also. The first Cavalier game scheduled on FSOHIO HD is for the 19th, one week away.



Channels 1309 (Fox Sports Ohio main HD) and 1310 (FSO alternate HD) are back as of yesterday or early today.


----------



## CLEHD

Is anybody else's Spike HD out? Both my TiVo and the SA are not getting it, but I am not seeing any message from the SA that it has been removed (nor read anything to that effect)?


What is the deal with Fox Sports Ohio? I know that TWC and them have had some issues I believe over the HD feed. Is it that only Cavs games are shown in HD and no other content is?


----------



## hookbill

Spike HD is working fine on my TiVo. Sorry you're having issues.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19350790
> 
> 
> Spike HD is working fine on my TiVo. Sorry you're having issues.



Hmm, maybe just my area? I am in the Lake County (non-Mentor) area. Anyone out there by chance in my area who can let me know if they are having issues? It is not that I am trying to watch anything on Spike, it is just that it was the channel that was on when I turned my TiVo on tonight (I was watching it fine on Friday) and then the power got cut off so I thought that the channel just got lost due to freak thing and that maybe TiVo needed resetting. Then, I saw that the SA was also not receiving Spike HD but it was just a black screen, not a "You do not receive this channel, call your provider" blue screen. Just curious. Probably will come back on. I probably would not have even noticed had the TiVo not been on Spike HD when I turned it on.


----------



## hookbill

It's happened to me from time to time on Spike that when it first switches over to the channel I get a dark grey screen and nothing else on it. Changing channels and going back to it usually fixes it but not all the time.


in my on going pursuit to convince Time Warner that they are not carrying MLBnet in Dolby 5.1, I received an email from my contact in TW saying that it isn't broadcast in 5.1, she had spoken to an engineer at MLBnet and they said their HD signal was broadcast in 2.0. Funny, I replied because when I called over there the engineer told me that MLBNE HD was broadcast isn Dolby 5.1.


I immediately got an email back from her saying apparently we both talked to level 1 engineering and she was going to investigate further. Stay tuned.


All I know is that for a Dolby 2.0 signal it lights my receiver with what looks like Dolby Pro Logic. Center, left right, and some left right from the rear. Woofer of course too.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ed1202* /forum/post/19337996
> 
> 
> From www.engadget.com
> 
> 
> The long awaited rule changes pertaining to CableCARDs that was originally proposed in the FCC's Broadband Plan finally got some resolve today, we have to say we're not convinced things will get that much better. While the FCC failed to kill Tuning Adapters or make the CableLabs certification process any less painful, it did make some changes, which include:
> 
> 
> CableCARD fees have to be the same for everyone, no matter which package you have.
> *If your cable company allows any self installs, they must allow CableCARD self-installs.*
> 
> Cable companies must support SDV for CableCARD users -- this was implied before, now it is black and white.
> 
> By default, all new deployments must be M-Cards (unless you actually request a S-Card).
> 
> Cable companies can include an IP interface in set-top-boxes leui of a 1394 port.
> 
> One way HD boxes without CableCARDs are no longer forbidden and they don't require IP interfaces.



Not an easy thing to do with regular TWC CSR. Better be prepared to talk to Cable Card Support, because when I tried just to switch the cards from my S3 to my TiVo HD, they wanted to come out, charge me for an install. An install for what, I have the cable cards already?


At least they have the tuner adapter issue fixed, what a pia that was. Only took them about a year and a half to get it right, not bad.


----------



## bassguitarman

I see they are raising our rates again. Some sort of BS about new fees on dvr's and things.

I'm very close to tipping point to chuck it all. Hookbill whats the best over the air tivo going now ?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/19352011
> 
> 
> I see they are raising our rates again. Some sort of BS about new fees on dvr's and things.
> 
> I'm very close to tipping point to chuck it all. Hookbill whats the best over the air tivo going now ?



TiVo's are combination OTA and Cable units. The TiVo Premier XL is the latest and the greatest. It's got like a 150 hour capable hard drive built into it. Provided you have wifi in your house, it's also great for PPV movies, purchasing movies, and losts more.

http://www.tivo.com/products/home/in..._products_home 


Also I noticed while on that page that is is official. TiVo has renewed their partnership with D* for those of you thinking of making a switch. You can sign up for more info here: http://www.tivo.com/products/source/...ctv/index.html


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19351524
> 
> 
> It's happened to me from time to time on Spike that when it first switches over to the channel I get a dark grey screen and nothing else on it. Changing channels and going back to it usually fixes it but not all the time.



No, I have tried that, tried re-setting the TiVo, everything. Like I said, the SA unit is also not receiving the signal (just a black screen; the info banner comes up and everything, just no picture nor sound). I am going to give TWC a call.


I am sure that it has gotten lost in the shuffle, but can anyone shed some light as to what the deal is with Fox Sports Ohio HD and TWC? Is the only content available in HD Cavaliers games?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19353286
> 
> 
> I am sure that it has gotten lost in the shuffle, but can anyone shed some light as to what the deal is with Fox Sports Ohio HD and TWC? Is the only content available in HD Cavaliers games?



FSN Ohio HD is a game time only feed.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19353286
> 
> 
> No, I have tried that, tried re-setting the TiVo, everything. Like I said, the SA unit is also not receiving the signal (just a black screen; the info banner comes up and everything, just no picture nor sound). I am going to give TWC a call.
> 
> 
> I am sure that it has gotten lost in the shuffle, but can anyone shed some light as to what the deal is with Fox Sports Ohio HD and TWC? Is the only content available in HD Cavaliers games?



I am being told that Spike HD has been removed from the lineup in my area. I did not receive notification of such a change. Isn't TWC required to notify the customers about any loss of channels?


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19353844
> 
> 
> I am being told that Spike HD has been removed from the lineup in my area. I did not receive notification of such a change. Isn't TWC required to notify the customers about any loss of channels?



Just got off of the phone with another CSR as the first one was totally unprofessional and unhelpful (the guy tried to tell me that I don't know what HD is and that I probably never received Spike HD to which I replied that I know what HD vs. SD looks like, the banner said "Spike HD", and the television said it was 1080i), and she informed me that I should be receiving it and she asked some other CSR's who also confirmed this. We scheduled a service call as she said that it may be a nick in the line or something like that which could cause the loss of signal for a few channels. Be back with results.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19354075
> 
> 
> Just got off of the phone with another CSR as the first one was totally unprofessional and unhelpful (the guy tried to tell me that I don't know what HD is and that I probably never received Spike HD to which I replied that I know what HD vs. SD looks like, the banner said "Spike HD", and the television said it was 1080i), and she informed me that I should be receiving it and she asked some other CSR's who also confirmed this. We scheduled a service call as she said that it may be a nick in the line or something like that which could cause the loss of signal for a few channels. Be back with results.



Heck yes whomever you got the first time was peeing on your leg and telling you it was raining.


Unbelievable!


----------



## Goldenager62

Every time they try to add channels I lose them. MSNBC HD and CNBS HD out this morning.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19357244
> 
> 
> Every time they try to add channels I lose them. MSNBC HD and CNBS HD out this morning.



CNBS?....I''ve never heard that one before, unless of course your talking about Fox News. I mean I'm thinking maybe Cable News B.S.????










The above somewhat political comment was made by hookbill, and I fully accept any consequences as a result of it.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19357270
> 
> 
> CNBS?....I''ve never heard that one before, unless of course your talking about Fox News. I mean I'm thinking maybe Cable News B.S.????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above somewhat political comment was made by hookbill, and I fully accept any consequences as a result of it.



Here are some consequences. *applause*










I see History International HD is coming in this morning. The guide shows the channel listed, but for programming it says "No Information". But if you tune to the channel there is picture and sound. Investigation Discovery still has the "This channel is not available. Call your provider" screen.


Now hookbill, we being our wait and search to see where they will fall within the TiVo lineup.


----------



## CLEHD

OK, the service techs just left. What they have concluded is that Spike HD is out in my entire area. One of them lives a few blocks away from me and he called home and confirmed that he was not getting the channel either. They also called another tech who lives nearby and,again, nothing. So, it is a problem somewhere further up the chain. I guess the problem is that it may be difficult to pinpoint the source of the issue because Spike HD is SDV.


Whatever the case may be, I do not know what that first CSR I got was talking about. As hookbill so eloquently put it, he was indeed peeing on my leg and telling me it was raining. What a _dunce_. Good thing I saw him for what he was, tried calling again, and got a more well-informed, probably better-trained CSR who got me what I needed.


@hookbill: I asked them about the new channels as they relate to TiVo and they told me that TiVo is the last thing that TWC worries about when adding new channels. I am not necessarily nipping at the heels to watch those two particular channels, but I would like to check them out as I am sure that there will something interesting that I would want to check out. Fortunately, I have the SA box in the mean time.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19357270
> 
> 
> CNBS?....I''ve never heard that one before, unless of course your talking about Fox News. I mean I'm thinking maybe Cable News B.S.????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above somewhat political comment was made by hookbill, and I fully accept any consequences as a result of it.



I meant CNBC. Those two channels are back now.

On or after October 19, 2010, Investigation Discovery HD and History International HD will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Variety package.

Is anybody actually receiving these channels, all I getting is on screen "To receive this channel call customer care"


----------



## CLEHD

@Goldenager62:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19358013
> 
> 
> Here are some consequences. *applause*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see History International HD is coming in this morning. The guide shows the channel listed, but for programming it says "No Information". But if you tune to the channel there is picture and sound. Investigation Discovery still has the "This channel is not available. Call your provider" screen.
> 
> 
> Now hookbill, we being our wait and search to see where they will fall within the TiVo lineup.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19358780
> 
> 
> I meant CNBC. Those two channels are back now.
> 
> On or after October 19, 2010, Investigation Discovery HD and History International HD will be added to HD for customers with the Digital Variety package.
> 
> Is anybody actually receiving these channels, all I getting is on screen "To receive this channel call customer care"



See my post above.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19353445
> 
> 
> FSN Ohio HD is a game time only feed.



So there is a Cavs preseason game on tonight, but it is not on FSO HD. Does that mean that the game is not being broadcast in HD (believable seeing as it is only a preseason game)?


Also, I see a FSO HD channel and a FSBJ HD channel. I assume that "BJ" is Blue Jackets, yes? Well, the FSO HD is a blue screen with "HD SPORTS" on it and some music playing. The FSBJ HD is a black screen similar to the Spike HD issue that I have been having (the banner pops us, no video, no sound). Is it just me/my area, or is everyone's FSBJ a black screen? Do I need to contact TWC about this channel as well?


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19360704
> 
> 
> So there is a Cavs preseason game on tonight, but it is not on FSO HD. Does that mean that the game is not being broadcast in HD (believable seeing as it is only a preseason game)?
> 
> 
> Also, I see a FSO HD channel and a FSBJ HD channel. I assume that "BJ" is Blue Jackets, yes? Well, the FSO HD is a blue screen with "HD SPORTS" on it and some music playing. The FSBJ HD is a black screen similar to the Spike HD issue that I have been having (the banner pops us, no video, no sound). Is it just me/my area, or is everyone's FSBJ a black screen? Do I need to contact TWC about this channel as well?



After a little research I see that both Cavs and Blue Jackets games show on FSNHD. So, what is the other one (FSNBJ HD) for?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19360704
> 
> 
> So there is a Cavs preseason game on tonight, but it is not on FSO HD. Does that mean that the game is not being broadcast in HD (believable seeing as it is only a preseason game)?



Also believable since the game (while being a home game) was being played off site.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19360704
> 
> 
> Also, I see a FSO HD channel and a FSBJ HD channel. I assume that "BJ" is Blue Jackets, yes? Well, the FSO HD is a blue screen with "HD SPORTS" on it and some music playing. The FSBJ HD is a black screen similar to the Spike HD issue that I have been having (the banner pops us, no video, no sound). Is it just me/my area, or is everyone's FSBJ a black screen? Do I need to contact TWC about this channel as well?



It's possible that TWC will use the FSBJ HD channel for situations where both the Cavs and Blue Jackets are playing at the same time and will both be carried in HD. This appears to be the case on the 30th where both the BJ's and Cavs game will be broadcast in HD on separate feeds.


Check out the following links for TV/HD coverage on future games:
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/ 
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/schedule.htm


----------



## bassguitarman

To hookbill on the Tivo premiere

I see it has two tuners, is that 2 OTA HD tuners ?


----------



## mbclev

As I write this on Wednesday night, I still do not have Investigation Discovery HD, even though I am a Digital Variety subscriber and have HD service. When I spoke to the call center person in the 1 P.M. hour on Wednesday, after he rebooted my box and I still did not have the aforementioned channel, he then had the audacity to say that it was not in my lineup, even though I get a channel identifier for channel 1139 (where this new channel is) and I get the standard definition version of this channel. Instead, I get information on how to order it instead of a picture on 1139. I just e-mailed Vin Zachariah at TWC about this, and I'm wondering if any of you can help as well, if you please.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/19367114
> 
> 
> As I write this on Wednesday night, I still do not have Investigation Discovery HD, even though I am a Digital Variety subscriber and have HD service. When I spoke to the call center person in the 1 P.M. hour on Wednesday, after he rebooted my box and I still did not have the aforementioned channel, he then had the audacity to say that it was not in my lineup, even though I get a channel identifier for channel 1139 (where this new channel is) and I get the standard definition version of this channel. Instead, I get information on how to order it instead of a picture on 1139. I just e-mailed Vin Zachariah at TWC about this, and I'm wondering if any of you can help as well, if you please.



I am in the same boat as you. I called in yesterday and got the same response that you did. If I have time today, I will go to our local office and see what they say.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19367914
> 
> 
> I am in the same boat as you. I called in yesterday and got the same response that you did. If I have time today, I will go to our local office and see what they say.



Well I went to my local office in Elyria and ask them about the two HD channels. Guess what, they did not know about them. I check their TV and cable box in their lobby and they have the same thing we have, "call customer service " message.

I told her about the programing notice, so she looked it up and said I was right and that the HD channels should have started on the 19th. She also said they generally receive an email and they hadn't yet, so she assumed the channels were not up and running yet.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19369028
> 
> 
> Well I went to my local office in Elyria and ask them about the two HD channels. Guess what, they did not know about them. I check their TV and cable box in their lobby and they have the same thing we have, "call customer service " message.
> 
> I told her about the programing notice, so she looked it up and said I was right and that the HD channels should have started on the 19th. She also said they generally receive an email and they hadn't yet, so she assumed the channels were not up and running yet.



Same here in Mentor. We have the "Call CS" message on the screen but no channels yet. I think if we all just stay patient a bit longer they will show up. Probably just some small issues to fix up before they become operational....or it may take a few more months.


Ray


----------



## mbclev

I now get a picture from Investigation Discovery HD. Liz Watson of TWC regional headquarters in Akron got the problem resolved. (Apparently it was something at a headend or something similar.)


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/19369247
> 
> 
> I now get a picture from Investigation Discovery HD. Liz Watson of TWC regional headquarters in Akron got the problem resolved. (Apparently it was something at a headend or something similar.)



You are lucky, we still don't have it in the Elyria area.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19369612
> 
> 
> You are lucky, we still don't have it in the Elyria area.



You can e-mail Liz Watson at:

[email protected] 


or you can contact regional head honcho Vin Zachariah at

[email protected] 


to get this resolved. (Put your account number in the e-mail message to get quicker action.)


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/19372285
> 
> 
> You can e-mail Liz Watson at:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> or you can contact regional head honcho Vin Zachariah at
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> to get this resolved. (Put your account number in the e-mail message to get quicker action.)



Thanks for the addresses


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/19372285
> 
> 
> You can e-mail Liz Watson at:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> or you can contact regional head honcho Vin Zachariah at
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> to get this resolved. (Put your account number in the e-mail message to get quicker action.)



Thanks again. After I email Liz Watson and explained that the entire Elyria and Mentor areas were affected, she notified engineering and now we have the HD channels.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19362664
> 
> 
> It's possible that TWC will use the FSBJ HD channel for situations where both the Cavs and Blue Jackets are playing at the same time and will both be carried in HD. This appears to be the case on the 30th where both the BJ's and Cavs game will be broadcast in HD on separate feeds.



I believe that's what they did last year.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/19379248
> 
> 
> I believe that's what they did last year.



The TiVo shows when "NHL Hockey" will be on in the Guide, but it shows it on the "Cavs" channel (FSNOH). But, the game is actually on the "Blue Jackets" channel (HDSPRT/FSNBJ on the SA). The SA does not show the game in the guide, but it has the game on "FSNBJ".


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19369612
> 
> 
> You are lucky, we still don't have it in the Elyria area.



Checked earlier today, and we have both History International (which we have had since the 19th) and Investigation Discovery. Still nothing shows in the guide as far as programming goes.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/19367114
> 
> 
> As I write this on Wednesday night, I still do not have Investigation Discovery HD, even though I am a Digital Variety subscriber and have HD service. When I spoke to the call center person in the 1 P.M. hour on Wednesday, after he rebooted my box and I still did not have the aforementioned channel, he then had the audacity to say that it was not in my lineup, even though I get a channel identifier for channel 1139 (where this new channel is) and I get the standard definition version of this channel. Instead, I get information on how to order it instead of a picture on 1139. I just e-mailed Vin Zachariah at TWC about this, and I'm wondering if any of you can help as well, if you please.



Sounds like the same scenario that I had recently with "Alex" and my Spike TV HD situation. It is sad when the customer knows more than the supposedly trained CSR.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19389646
> 
> 
> Sounds like the same scenario that I had recently with "Alex" and my Spike TV HD situation. It is sad when the customer knows more than the supposedly trained CSR.



Whats sad about it is that not only do we know more then they do, they get attitudes with you when they find out you are right.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19389637
> 
> 
> The TiVo shows when "NHL Hockey" will be on in the Guide, but it shows it on the "Cavs" channel (FSNOH). But, the game is actually on the "Blue Jackets" channel (HDSPRT/FSNBJ on the SA). The SA does not show the game in the guide, but it has the game on "FSNBJ".



Odd, I have neither of those channels showing in my SA guide in Canton.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19389643
> 
> 
> Checked earlier today, and we have both History International (which we have had since the 19th) and Investigation Discovery. Still nothing shows in the guide as far as programming goes.



We had just the opposite. We had the program guide for these channels, but the channels had "call customer service". We have both the program guide and the channels now.


----------



## shooter21198

Latest legal notice

On or after November 22, 2010, YES, NESN, ESPN Goal Line and Sportsman Channel will be added to the Sports Pass


----------



## ErieMarty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/19399148
> 
> 
> Latest legal notice
> 
> On or after November 22, 2010, YES, NESN, ESPN Goal Line and Sportsman Channel will be added to the Sports Pass



will give you Boston Redsox on NESN or Yankee Games on YES..as I assume those will still be blacked out because of being in the Cleveland Market..


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/19401578
> 
> 
> will give you Boston Redsox on NESN or Yankee Games on YES..as I assume those will still be blacked out because of being in the Cleveland Market..



If there's a Boston Red Sox Game on 11/22, please let me know. I definitely watch it.


If there is any baseball on 11/22 I'll be shocked.


----------



## k2rj

Maybe the "best of"!


----------



## Blogeyed

I was speaking to someone recently about whether there was any true consensus when verbally talking about subchannels as far as saying "point" or "dash". For instance, for WKYC 24/7 weather do you say "3 point 2" (3.2) or "3 dash 2" (3-2)? It seems some remotes use a dash "-" and some a ". " for the button. Likewise, some TVs display 3.2 and others 3-2. What do the majority of people say when speaking the numbers?


----------



## CLEHD

I noticed that Fox Sports Ohio is 1080i, while FOX (and I believe most of their sisters/owned channels) are 720p. I wonder why that is?


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blogeyed* /forum/post/19403586
> 
> 
> I was speaking to someone recently about whether there was any true consensus when verbally talking about subchannels as far as saying "point" or "dash". For instance, for WKYC 24/7 weather do you say "3 point 2" (3.2) or "3 dash 2" (3-2)? It seems some remotes use a dash "-" and some a ". " for the button. Likewise, some TVs display 3.2 and others 3-2. What do the majority of people say when speaking the numbers?



FOX 8's HD logo (or whatever that thing in the lower, right-hand corner of the screen is called) shows 8.1. That being said, every TV that I have had (Samsung and Panny) use a "-". TiVo uses a "-". My uncle's Philips has a ".". My friend has a Mitsu, but I am not sure what it has.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/19401578
> 
> 
> will give you Boston Redsox on NESN or Yankee Games on YES..as I assume those will still be blacked out because of being in the Cleveland Market..



Is this MLB-specific? I ask because I was visiting a friend in St. Paul, MN who is originally from Boston and he was watching the Bruins on NESN. He had Comcast at the time. Now, I don't know if he subscribed to a package like NHL Center Ice or something or if it was just NESN.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19406050
> 
> 
> I noticed that Fox Sports Ohio is 1080i, while FOX (and I believe most of their sisters/owned channels) are 720p. I wonder why that is?



My guess is because FOX is a network showing national programming, the networks dictate how the affiliates rebroadcast such programming.

i.e. all ABC affiliates must use 720p, all NBC affiliates must use 1080i


FOX Sports (Ohio in this case) is regional programming only and likely gives more leeway for broadcast parameters regionally.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19406661
> 
> 
> Is this MLB-specific? I ask because I was visiting a friend in St. Paul, MN who is originally from Boston and he was watching the Bruins on NESN. He had Comcast at the time. Now, I don't know if he subscribed to a package like NHL Center Ice or something or if it was just NESN.



MLB Extra Innings and NHL Center Ice use regional feeds for their broadcast. It may have been on NESN that night and that was the broacast he got. Also the first week of NHL Center Ice and MLB Extra Innings is free so he may not even have a subscription.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19406050
> 
> 
> I noticed that Fox Sports Ohio is 1080i, while FOX (and I believe most of their sisters/owned channels) are 720p. I wonder why that is?



I'll try and catch a BJs or Cavs game on DirecTV to see what we're being fed for the game time only feed. I would be very surprised if I get something other than 720p since that is the FOX standard. I would guess that TWC is altering the feed, but until I catch a game on DirecTV, I can't say for sure.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19407181
> 
> 
> MLB Extra Innings and NHL Center Ice use regional feeds for their broadcast. It may have been on NESN that night and that was the broacast he got. Also the first week of NHL Center Ice and MLB Extra Innings is free so he may not even have a subscription.



That is to what I was referring, that I am not sure whether he had NESN full-time or in a Center Ice-type package. I was asking in reference to ErieMarty's reply regarding out-of-market blackouts on NESN.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* /forum/post/19401578
> 
> 
> will give you Boston Redsox on NESN or Yankee Games on YES..as I assume those will still be blacked out because of being in the Cleveland Market..



I was trying to find out whether it was just a MLB-specific thing or a general NESN-cable agreement. To your other point, I believe it was a playoff game, so it could not have been the first week of Center Ice if it was such a package.


----------



## ErieMarty

not sure why we need a Cooking Channel since we have the Food Network but Wife noticed that the Cooking Channel was free but when she went to watch it the other night it said if you want this channel you need to contact TW.


Any idea what this channel might be grouped with that you have to pay for


----------



## hookbill

When TWC brings a new channel on board they will usually make it available to everyone for about a week, then just when they get you into it they pull the rug out from underneath you.


----------



## Tim Lones

Problem with HD DVR-SA 8240HDC:


I manually record two episodes of ESPN Classic's Celebrity Bowling Mondays usually at 10-11PM..I record the first half hour, then extend the recording time to 11PM as one 60 minute program..My wife put the shows for tonight in "set reminder" mode..I now can't get out of that mode into setting the recording for this partcular show/time..Hope that makes sense..


----------



## Tim Lones

Update:

It seems that ESPN Classic is now on the "Sports Tier"..Got the message tonight on Ch.304:

"Call_______To receive this channel"..Just must have added it to that tier..


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/19422981
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> It seems that ESPN Classic is now on the "Sports Tier"..Got the message tonight on Ch.304:
> 
> "Call_______To receive this channel"..Just must have added it to that tier..



Yep, it was in the last Programming Notice.


----------



## CLEHD

Kind of dead on here lately. haha


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19455698
> 
> 
> Kind of dead on here lately. haha



Yeah, things have changed a lot in this forum. We use to have some lively discussions. Then the OTA people got tired of us and got their own section. One or two of them still drop by. nickdawg quit TW. Every once in a while one of the old timers drop by.


Then we had a lot to talk about too. Anticipation of SDV, that went on for a couple of years. lol. I spend a lot of time at the Droid Forums now. I've kind of lost interest in my TiVo's. Right now I've got 145 shows recorded on one TiVo I only watch tv about 2 hours a night, if that much.


You guys should all be proud of your Brownies not only beating the Super Bowl champs in their ball park but also beating the Pats. Amazing. Beat New York next week and I'd have to say you got a good ball club.


As Bob Dylan says, "The times they are a changing."


----------



## shooter21198

Time Warner hasn't done anything significant since they added the Viacom channels in HD.

And not everyone in this thread is a Browns fan. For one I am a Steelers fan just wait until week 17.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/19456052
> 
> 
> Time Warner hasn't done anything significant since they added the Viacom channels in HD.
> 
> And not everyone in this thread is a Browns fan. For one I am a Steelers fan just wait until week 17.



I actually like the Steelers because of Troy Polamalu. That guy is awesome. I'm just happy to see the Browns do some good since they haven't in so long.


Not being from the N.E. Ohio area, I can't claim to be a fan of the Browns. But I always like to see teams who haven't done well win for a change.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/19456052
> 
> 
> Time Warner hasn't done anything significant since they added the Viacom channels in HD.
> 
> And not everyone in this thread is a Browns fan. For one I am a Steelers fan just wait until week 17.



The Browns kind of helped screw up the Steelers' playoffs hopes late last year, and they are clearly better this year, so maybe Week 17 shouldn't be so anticipated. Just some good-natured ribbing.


----------



## abcmatt

I'm in Bainbridge and some channels were out, not using a box, just a cable. They come in fine on the Cablebox/DVR. The channels are 2-10, 13, 23, 45, 64, 77, and possibly more. They went out right at 8 PM, and while I was writing this post they came back on.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *abcmatt* /forum/post/19457256
> 
> 
> I'm in Bainbridge and some channels were out, not using a box, just a cable. They come in fine on the Cablebox/DVR. The channels are 2-10, 13, 23, 45, 64, 77, and possibly more. They went out right at 8 PM, and while I was writing this post they came back on.



I have some family in Euclid, and they had the same issue.


----------



## Ben Music

Hi Hook,

I'm still here in Ridgeville. I did have something strange happen the other day. I lost all my SDV channels on my Tivo S3. What fooled me was it didn't go into brick mode like it used to with the 8 blinks. I know that was fixed a while back. This time the green light on the TA stayed on like everything was normal. Turned out that a TA reset was all that was needed. Everything is back to normal now.


Ben Music


----------



## pbarach

I'm in TWC Northeast Ohio. Does anyone here have experience pro or con with the TWC digital phone service, and do you have any info on how much the Voip phones cost that are needed for it?


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/19467790
> 
> 
> I'm in TWC Northeast Ohio. Does anyone here have experience pro or con with the TWC digital phone service, and do you have any info on how much the Voip phones cost that are needed for it?



It doesn't sound any different than a traditional phone line, to me anyway. The only con so to speak is that if your power is out you no longer have phone service.


It doesn't require a VoIP phone. It uses your existing wiring in most cases and your existing equipment.


----------



## toby10

I don't use TWC but I've been using the WOW cable voip service with two lines for years now, it works every bit as good as landline service in my experience. One caveat is that not all voip services can handle faxing (sending or receiving) if that matters to you.


You might also check into other third party voip services as well, like Vonage. They are even less expensive than the cable voip options. A big advantage to a Vonage type service is that it is not tied to your cable provider, so if you switch cable providers your Vonage (and your phone number) is unaffected. I do not use Vonage myself, just suggesting more options for you.


As suggested any standard phone, your current wired or wireless phones, will work fine on such voip services.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19407354
> 
> 
> I'll try and catch a BJs or Cavs game on DirecTV to see what we're being fed for the game time only feed. I would be very surprised if I get something other than 720p since that is the FOX standard. I would guess that TWC is altering the feed, but until I catch a game on DirecTV, I can't say for sure.



Well, color me surprised. Both the Cavs and BJs games last night were carried in 1080i on DirecTV. So, TWC isn't doing anything with the feed. Now I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that they're not full time feeds.


----------



## JJkizak

The OTA people are still watching-----

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/19469748
> 
> 
> It doesn't sound any different than a traditional phone line, to me anyway. The only con so to speak is that if your power is out you no longer have phone service.
> 
> 
> It doesn't require a VoIP phone. It uses your existing wiring in most cases and your existing equipment.



With Vonage if your phone went out your calls could be set up to automatically be sent to another number, like your wireless phone. Can TW do that?


----------



## its.mike

You can set up 4 different types of Call Forwarding.
*Call Forwarding: Unconditional*

Planning to be away from your phone? Forward all incoming calls to another number.
*Call Forwarding: No Answer*

Select the number of rings before unanswered calls are forwarded.
*Call Forwarding: Busy*

Forward your incoming calls when your phone line is busy.
*Selective Call Forwarding*

Don't miss important calls. Selective Call Forwarding allows you to redirect up to 30 specific callers to another number.


So you could set up "Call Forwarding: Busy" to transfer to a mobile. But as far an option just for power outages there isn't anything like that in the MyServices page.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/19473750
> 
> 
> You can set up 4 different types of Call Forwarding.
> *Call Forwarding: Unconditional*
> 
> Planning to be away from your phone? Forward all incoming calls to another number.
> *Call Forwarding: No Answer*
> 
> Select the number of rings before unanswered calls are forwarded.
> *Call Forwarding: Busy*
> 
> Forward your incoming calls when your phone line is busy.
> *Selective Call Forwarding*
> 
> Don't miss important calls. Selective Call Forwarding allows you to redirect up to 30 specific callers to another number.
> 
> 
> So you could set up "Call Forwarding: Busy" to transfer to a mobile. But as far an option just for power outages there isn't anything like that in the MyServices page.



Well, dollar for dollar I'm not certain you can't do better with Vonage.


Vonage offers 450 minutes for around 25.00 after all the extra charges are put in there. There is no minutes charged to you for incoming calls or outgoing calls to 800 numbers. Vonage also has direct 911, I think TW does this too but I'm not certain. And as I mentioned if your call can't go through Vonage forwards it automatically.


I don't use Vonage any longer, I just use my cell. But I do recommend them for VoIP.


----------



## kevin120

 http://www.mypublicnotices.com/ohio/...e&AdId=2149939 


December 12

HBO2 HD, HBO Family HD, HBO Signature HD, SHO Showcase HD, SHO Extreme HD, Action Max HD, Thriller MAX HD, Starz Kids & Family HD


Must subscribe to standard definition channel to get HD version of channel.


December 14

Hallmark HD, Fox Soccer HD, National Geographic Wild HD, Gospel Music HD DIY HD, Cooking Channel HD, RFD TV HD and Crime & Investigation Network

HD Fox Soccer Plus HD


Must subscribe to standard definition channel to get HD version of channel.


----------



## hookbill

Crime and Investigation. Isn't that the old Court TV?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19485305
> 
> 
> Crime and Investigation. Isn't that the old Court TV?



Court TV is now called TruTV, but it's less "tru" than it used to be.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/19485857
> 
> 
> Court TV is now called TruTV, but it's less "tru" than it used to be.



Still, I'd rather have TruTV HD than any of those listed. I wonder what's taking them so long to release it for NEOWPA. It's nice to be getting new channels again though.


----------



## greenpjs

Hi,

Sometime in the last 48 hours, my DVR forgot most of its "series record" list. Of 20 to 25 shows in the list earlier, only 4 were left. Has anyone ever experienced that kind of thing or know what might haved caused it? The DVR is an SA 8240HDC if that matters. I live near Akron (TWC's Green area).


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenpjs* /forum/post/19491263
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sometime in the last 48 hours, my DVR forgot most of its "series record" list. Of 20 to 25 shows in the list earlier, only 4 were left. Has anyone ever experienced that kind of thing or know what might haved caused it? The DVR is an SA 8240HDC if that matters. I live near Akron (TWC's Green area).



Take it back get another, hope for the best, expect the worst.


Sounds like you have an old model DVR.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

I had a weird issue with my DVR this week too. A few of my series were listing the channel as "Not Available". I missed the season premiere of Burn Notice because my DVR somehow forgot that it airs on USA. It didn't forget the entire listing, just the channel.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* /forum/post/19495829
> 
> 
> I had a weird issue with my DVR this week too. A few of my series were listing the channel as "Not Available". I missed the season premiere of Burn Notice because my DVR somehow forgot that it airs on USA. It didn't forget the entire listing, just the channel.



My problems with the SA DVR are legendary. I went through 3 different SA Boxes. I would miss 2-4 programs a week. At that time the DVR didn't have the ability to set up your requested shows by priority so if you had 3 shows scheduled at the same time it just would record any.

















And it shortly after I went through my third DVR that TiVo came out with the S3. I was so happy to have a DVR I could trust recording HD that I spent over 900.00 on the DVR and later when it was capable I spent another couple of hundred on an eSATA.


Now the same set up is about 1/2 the price with the TiVo Premier. I don't have one of those but it has a 1tb hard drive and you can put an eSATA with it as well.


Truly you get what you pay for. PQ is better then the SA 8300. And then you have all the extra, you can get pod casts, stream movies from Netflix and Amazon. There is a Disney option too.


For a while you could even order a pizza from Dominoes, but I think that's in the past. Before they changed their recipe.


Occasionally I'll miss a recording, strangely it always seems to be Spike. In every occurrence it had something to do weith SDV. Usually I'll see a grey screen and changiing to another channel and then back fixes it.


On the downside to be honest you lose your On Demand, no Start Over. I'm not sure about pay per views, I think you can call in and order it. Right now my living room TiVo has 145 shows and the hard drive is starting to fill up. But even then that's not an issue, I just move the shows over to my computers 1tb hard drive via wifi.


Time Warner does block almost all their digital channels, but I primarily watch network local stations so those I can move. My complaint with TiVo is they outsourced their customer service to a bunch morons who know absolutely nothing.


I'm not trying to sell you on TiVo, just describing the difference. You can decide what you want and can afford. I even have an SA 8300 in one of my bedrooms and for the fourth one it does seem to be able to record without missing a show. But then again that's the wife's personal DVR so who really knows?


----------



## k2rj

There may have been system issues going on Sunday. During the Browns game (halftime, thankfully) my SA8300 re-booted. There was no power failure (even if there was, my entertainment system is on a UPS) and everything seemed the same after the boot process. It must have been commanded by the head-end. I'm in Aurora.


----------



## shooter21198

Finally some new HD channels, but Gospel Music HD really...


----------



## hookbill

I'm not getting anything on my digital channels. Only thing working is the analog channels, on both of my TiVo's. Anybody else with a TiVo having an issue? If you own a TiVo and you aren't experiencing this let me know as well, maybe I just need to reboot them. That would be strange though because both of my TiVos to have the same issue.


----------



## lumber2398




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19508253
> 
> 
> I'm not getting anything on my digital channels. Only thing working is the analog channels, on both of my TiVo's. Anybody else with a TiVo having an issue? If you own a TiVo and you aren't experiencing this let me know as well, maybe I just need to reboot them. That would be strange though because both of my TiVos to have the same issue.



hook, My HD channels were moved to the 1,ooo's overnight on my Tivo. Perhaps the move affected your tuning adapter. Maybe needs reset?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lumber2398* /forum/post/19508337
> 
> 
> hook, My HD channels were moved to the 1,ooo's overnight on my Tivo. Perhaps the move affected your tuning adapter. Maybe needs reset?



Well, it' about time.


I'll check it out.


----------



## ed1202

Yep my HD's moved to the 1000's on the TiVo last night too. Took awhile to figure that one out.


----------



## shooter21198

Tivo users are all of the HD channels we received in the 1000s or are they still being added


----------



## lumber2398




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shooter21198* /forum/post/19508737
> 
> 
> Tivo users are all of the HD channels we received in the 1000s or are they still being added



All of the HD channels were moved for me.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lumber2398* /forum/post/19509226
> 
> 
> All of the HD channels were moved for me.



Appears that way to me too. Now let's hope TiVo works it's magic and does the Season Pass thing where it automatically adjusts for the new line up. Worked the last time they did this.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19491349
> 
> 
> Sounds like you have an old model DVR.



Actually, the 8240HDC is a newer modell than the 8300HD.







It's basically the same as the 8300HDC, except for the lack of an analog tuner. I'm kinda surprised TWC is giving out boxes without analog tuners, since last time I checked just about everything under 100(and their clones in 100s, 200s and 300s) are analog.



> Quote:
> December 14
> *Hallmark HD*, Fox Soccer HD, National Geographic Wild HD, *Gospel Music HD* DIY HD, Cooking Channel HD, *RFD TV HD* and Crime & Investigation Network HD Fox Soccer Plus HD



Oh man, I can't wait to see those channels.







They're so great in analog, they totally deserve HD. x_x


----------



## CLEHD

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
Appears that way to me too. Now let's hope TiVo works it's magic and does the Season Pass thing where it automatically adjusts for the new line up. Worked the last time they did this.
Good to see that this isn't just me. I turned on my TiVo and got the gray error screen. Tried rebooting the TiVo and it did not resolve the issue. I am in the process of rebooting the Tuning Adapter now. Hopefully this resolves the issue. Maybe it was fine before, I just had it tuned to a 400 channel (ESPN2 431) and I got the screen. I didn't read the posts on here in time to check to see the 1,000's first. Do we need to go through set-up so that it pulls in the 1,000's into the Guide?


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19511561
> 
> 
> Good to see that this isn't just me. I turned on my TiVo and got the gray error screen. Tried rebooting the TiVo and it did not resolve the issue. I am in the process of rebooting the Tuning Adapter now. Hopefully this resolves the issue. Maybe it was fine before, I just had it tuned to a 400 channel (ESPN2 431) and I got the screen. I didn't read the posts on here in time to check to see the 1,000's first. Do we need to go through set-up so that it pulls in the 1,000's into the Guide?



Guided Setup is finished. Season Passes all updated on their own for the new 1,000-level channel numbers. Now at least I won't have to remember two sets of channel lineups any longer.


----------



## toby10

Hey hookbill (or any TWC customer),

Does TWC have AMC-HD? If so, I'm curious to to hear TWC customers opinion on the picture quality.

I'm on WOW cable and AMC-HD looks just awful. A lot of pixelation, digital artifacts, skin tones are really murky, etc..

I'm wondering if this is just AMC-HD providing a really bad feed to all? Or if it is WOW screwing up the ch?


Thanks.


----------



## greenpjs

Nickdawg wrote:

Actually, the 8240HDC is a newer modell than the 8300HD. It's basically the same as the 8300HDC, except for the lack of an analog tuner. I'm kinda surprised TWC is giving out boxes without analog tuners, since last time I checked just about everything under 100(and their clones in 100s, 200s and 300s) are analog.


Nickdawg, you are correct anout the 8240 being newer. However, I can still select the channels under 100. They appear to be digital. If I hook an old TV directly to the cable, it receives the analog signals. It appears the 8240 sees I selected channel 3, and creates a digital SD signal for me (probably from their HD feed).


(Yes, I really watch 1003).


The 100's, 200's etc have been digital for a long time.


----------



## CLEHD

Quote:

Originally Posted by *toby10* 
Hey hookbill (or any TWC customer),

Does TWC have AMC-HD? If so, I'm curious to to hear TWC customers opinion on the picture quality.

I'm on WOW cable and AMC-HD looks just awful. A lot of pixelation, digital artifacts, skin tones are really murky, etc..

I'm wondering if this is just AMC-HD providing a really bad feed to all? Or if it is WOW screwing up the ch?


Thanks.








First, yes TWC does have AMC HD. Now, I do not watch it much. The only program that I watch is "The Walking Dead" (I had wanted to watch "Mad Men" since it first came on, but I fell behind and now I need to catch up on DVD before I can watch the newest episodes). That being said, "The Walking Dead"'s picture quality does appear to be slightly grainy or fuzzy at times. But, I am not sure that is not intentional as the series is about zombies. So, perhaps they could be going for a more "gritty" look to the show. Knowing this, I cannot speak to AMC HD picture quality at all times.


----------



## Vchat20

Quote:

Originally Posted by *greenpjs* 
Nickdawg, you are correct anout the 8240 being newer. However, I can still select the channels under 100. They appear to be digital. If I hook an old TV directly to the cable, it receives the analog signals. It appears the 8240 sees I selected channel 3, and creates a digital SD signal for me (probably from their HD feed).
This is the way it has been down here on this side of TWCNEO's footprint for quite a number of years. You guys up there in Cleveland territory may have finally gotten this feature.


Yes, the 8240HDC is more an updated version of the 8300HD with a separate cablecard slot and removable cablecard in addition to the lack of an analog cable tuner. All channels 1-99 are basically mapped to digital versions of those channels elsewhere in the vast collection of QAMs already running.


----------



## Goldenager62

Hey check this out: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373044,00.asp


----------



## nickdawg

The _Akron Leakin Urinal_ had a list published in today's paper:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Akron Leakin Urinal* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> * A&E
> 
> * AMC
> 
> * Animal Planet
> 
> * BET
> 
> * Biography
> 
> * Boomerang
> 
> * Bravo
> 
> * CNN
> 
> * Cartoon
> 
> * Centric
> 
> * Cooking Channel
> 
> * Discovery
> 
> * Disney
> 
> * ESPNews
> 
> * FX
> 
> * FitTV
> 
> * G4
> 
> * GAC
> 
> * GSN
> 
> * G ospel M usic
> 
> * HGTV
> 
> * HLN ( H eadline Ne w s)
> 
> * HSN
> 
> * Hallmark
> 
> * History
> 
> * I-Life ( Halogen )
> 
> * Inspiration
> 
> * Jewelry TV
> 
> * Lifetime
> 
> * MTV
> 
> * Military C hannel
> 
> * Nickelodeon
> 
> * Nick Jr
> 
> * QVC
> 
> * Shop NBC
> 
> * TBS
> 
> * TV Guide
> 
> * TV One
> 
> * Teen N ick
> 
> * USA
> 
> * VH1


 http://www.ohio.com/news/109134424.html 


I've never even heard of a few of these channels. I-Life(is that some kind of new Apple product?), Centric?? Inspiration?? Cooking Channel(a cheap knockoff of Food Network??) TV One(didn't that used to be the VOD portal on channel 1??)


Ten bucks says this is TWC's way of dealing with the impending demise of analog cable service. It's priced slightly lower than the current 'basic service' package, but the programming selection is crap. Which makes it easier to sell a more expensive package as an "upgrade".


----------



## CLEHD

I went to record "Dino Dan" on Nick Jr. and noticed that it showed Nick Jr. as being on channel 107 and 886. I tuned to 886 and sure enough, it was there. Channel 886 is not even listed on any channel lineup that I have seen. Anyone have any idea what's going? This was on an SA 8300 (non-HD).


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19515503
> 
> 
> I went to record "Dino Dan" on Nick Jr. and noticed that it showed Nick Jr. as being on channel 107 and 886. I tuned to 886 and sure enough, it was there. Channel 886 is not even listed on any channel lineup that I have seen. Anyone have any idea what's going? This was on an SA 8300 (non-HD).



Is this possibly where they are sticking the new channels that everyone has mentioned. I think that I noticed FitTV in there too and a Spanish language channel. It doesn't show up in my TiVo's Guide and I cannot "Channel Up/Down" to them, but if I put the channel number manually they come in.


----------



## Adam P

I reran Guided Setup on both of my TiVo HDs and the channels in the 1000s now show the appropriate call signs, but all of my guide data is still showing "to be announced". The data is there for the standard def channels though.


----------



## stuart628

okay I have searched for this answer and even called time warner and get different answers...my question is this.... My friend is looking to cut costs and see what is the best fit for them (cable, satellite, etc.) the thing they are looking at is getting a hdtivo and cable cards and baisc cable (the 20 dollar package I think) they just want locals in hd and maybe fox sports ohio, and espn in hd... will they be able to do this? will the base package get the locals in hd, plus espn and fox sports...or will they have to get a digital package...and if anyone has this going what is your total cost per month, thanks all!!


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19514973
> 
> 
> Hey check this out: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373044,00.asp



So we're the last to get Remote DVR, but the first to get "The TWC Crap Package"? [sarcasm]Awesome[/sarcasm]


----------



## websta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/19518482
> 
> 
> I reran Guided Setup on both of my TiVo HDs and the channels in the 1000s now show the appropriate call signs, but all of my guide data is still showing "to be announced". The data is there for the standard def channels though.



Same here - anyone know what we're supposed to do? Sit and wait, keep connecting to Tivo service, etc


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/19518650
> 
> 
> okay I have searched for this answer and even called time warner and get different answers...my question is this.... My friend is looking to cut costs and see what is the best fit for them (cable, satellite, etc.) the thing they are looking at is getting a hdtivo and cable cards and baisc cable (the 20 dollar package I think) they just want locals in hd and maybe fox sports ohio, and espn in hd... will they be able to do this? will the base package get the locals in hd, plus espn and fox sports...or will they have to get a digital package...and if anyone has this going what is your total cost per month, thanks all!!


 http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ByPackage=true


----------



## stuart628




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19519645
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ByPackage=true



so if she gets the expanded basic tivohd and cablecards she will have espnhd and locals in hd correct?


----------



## ClevIndn

Quote:

Originally Posted by *websta* 
Same here - anyone know what we're supposed to do? Sit and wait, keep connecting to Tivo service, etc
I had to get to the point where I could pick a new lineup for my area and picked the "Rebuild" lineup. This has the HD channels in the 1000s.


Season Passes transferred over fine.. but I had a manual recording set that didn't seem to get updated. Wasn't a big deal because I noticed before the episode was scheduled to record. Not sure what happened there.


----------



## Adam P

Where did you get the option to select the "Rebuild" lineup??


Edit: Never mind, I got it working on both of mine. I had to run Guided Setup, select "Time Warner Cable (Cleveland Suburbs)" as my cable provider, and then on the next screen (the Channel Lineup) screen, had to hit "Enter" on the remote to go to advanced settings, where I was able to select the Digital Extended Basic Rebuild as my channel lineup. Looks like my Season Passes are still tied to the channels as they were in the 400s though, so I'll probably have to redo them all.


What a hassle.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/19520707
> 
> 
> so if she gets the expanded basic tivohd and cablecards she will have espnhd and locals in hd correct?



I would assume she would get whatever package she purchases from TWC, regardless of whether she uses a Tivo or a TWC box.

Some Tivo boxes require a Tuning Adapter, ask your TWC rep.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Quote:

On or after November 10, 2010, Primetime on Demand HD will be added to HD.
Does anyone know what channel this went on?


----------



## shooter21198

Quote:

Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV* 
Does anyone know what channel this went on?
channel 1401


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stuart628* /forum/post/19520707
> 
> 
> so if she gets the expanded basic tivohd and cablecards she will have espnhd and locals in hd correct?



If you get the expanded basic package, you'll get ESPNHD, ESPN2HD, Food Network HD, FSN HD(when it has programming) and any other HD channels in that package that are not on SDV(which are very few).


----------



## Adam P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/19525227
> 
> 
> Where did you get the option to select the "Rebuild" lineup??
> 
> 
> Edit: Never mind, I got it working on both of mine. I had to run Guided Setup, select "Time Warner Cable (Cleveland Suburbs)" as my cable provider, and then on the next screen (the Channel Lineup) screen, had to hit "Enter" on the remote to go to advanced settings, where I was able to select the Digital Extended Basic Rebuild as my channel lineup. Looks like my Season Passes are still tied to the channels as they were in the 400s though, so I'll probably have to redo them all.
> 
> 
> What a hassle.



Update: All my Season Passes appear to have updated themselves now.


----------



## websta




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClevIndn* /forum/post/19523814
> 
> 
> I had to get to the point where I could pick a new lineup for my area and picked the "Rebuild" lineup. This has the HD channels in the 1000s.



Called TiVo support and now I understand what you mean by "rebuild". There's a rebuild digital blah blah in the Guided Setup but it's tricky because it's an advanced option in the small black box at the bottom of the screen ("hit enter key for advanced options"). It's very easy to miss this.


Program Guide is good to go now.


----------



## shooter21198

ESPN3D launched this week in the 1800s


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Adam P* /forum/post/19530623
> 
> 
> Update: All my Season Passes appear to have updated themselves now.



Of course they did. It's TiVo.


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgooch* /forum/post/19537027
> 
> 
> Time Warner Promises No Waiting for The Cable Guy - For $189.95 a Month
> 
> By Kelly Riddell - Nov 23, 2010
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable Inc. is set to try a new pitch for customers: No more waiting for the cable guy.
> 
> 
> There is a price, however. The second-largest U.S. cable operator will set a specific service appointment time for customers who pay $189.95 a month for a new premium package. The plan, dubbed Signature Home, is being tested in Charlotte, North Carolina, and will roll out nationally within a few weeks, Chief Executive Officer Glenn Britt said in an interview.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable plans to introduce several custom bundles geared at different customer bases within the next two years to lure and retain subscribers. The premium package includes two whole-home digital video recorders and wideband Internet, as well as higher-end service. The company is testing a lower- priced service called TV Essentials in New York City for $39.99 aimed at economically strapped consumers.
> 
> 
> We're doing a lot of work segmenting the audience, Britt said. It turns out that there are very distinct segments of the public, both in terms of usage of the things we sell and psycho demographics, incomes, what-have-you. If we can put together packages targeted at those groups we think that we're going to be a lot more successful.
> 
> 
> Signature Home subscribers will have access to a personal service adviser 24 hours a day, and specially trained technicians will make house calls based on reservations at specific times. Customers typically have three hour windows with regular Time Warner Cable packages.
> 
> 
> Whiz-Bang Things'
> 
> 
> The Signature Home DVRs will have a terabyte of storage, be able to record four high-definition programs simultaneously and store 150 hours of HD content. The bundle will include a wireless service that can connect as many as 13 devices, including TVs, DVRs, computers and gaming consoles.
> 
> 
> If this were a BMW this would be the 750 IL, with all the whiz-bang things, said Britt. It's our package with everything we have to offer and a different service experience all wrapped up in one.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable lost 155,000 basic video subscribers last quarter, ending with a total of 12.6 million, primarily because of a weak economic environment and increased competition from satellite operators like DirecTV and phone companies including Verizon Communications Inc. and AT&T Inc.
> 
> 
> You're going to see us more and more carving out an identity that's going to be different from an AT&T and Verizon, Britt said. Not a one-size-fits all model.
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable fell $1.04, or 1.7 percent, to $61.32 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The shares have gained 48 percent this year.
> 
> 
> To contact the reporter on this story: Kelly Riddell in Washington at [email protected] .
> 
> 
> To contact the editor responsible for this story: Peter Elstrom at [email protected] .
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/...5-a-month.html



Awesome, we're the first to test the crap package!! NC must be so jealous!!


----------



## hookbill

Hey nickdawg I read that thing several times over and I didn't see where it said that NC was getting it after us. It said NC was testing it.


Anyway, that DVR certainly caught my interest. My only fear is it's from SA.


TWC has got something else to worry about. Google TV is going to be the new thing, watch and see. Sony always makes the smart moves and they are backing it.


TiVo owners, I don't know if any of you have the TiVo Premier or not but apparently those of us with TiVo HD and S3's are getting the snub. If you have an iPad they are offering a cool TiVo app. But it only works on the Premier. http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/11/22...eases-new-app/ 


Since I have an iPad this irritates me, one of my TiVo's is only a year old and no support for an iPad app?


Now as far as HD channels go, I could give a rats behind if they add anything else. They are just adding channels to add channels. Ridiculous, I've never heard of some of these channels either.


----------



## its.mike

Until Google can get the major networks onboard Google TV isn't going to dominate anything, except maybe lasting longer than the BetaMax(that a great idea from Sony).


As far as TiVO goes I could care less as I don't have one nor want one.


I know alot of people who have been waiting for FOX Soccer & FS+ to finally be available in HD. And there are people who care for other channels thay have yet to add. The only new channels they're adding are a shopping channel(does anyone even watch these?), Retarded Music HD, and Antenna TV(And only a day after it launches, quite impressive for CWC.)


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/19561064
> 
> 
> ...and Antenna TV(And only a day after it launches, quite impressive for CWC.)



And two days after that, according to TWC, the Speed channel and ShopNBC will move off analog reception and will be only available digitally. (This is in addition to Oxygen and MTV2 moving off analog recently). So, the channels that can no longer be received by old TVs directly hooked up to cable in this area are:


15 (local origination)

21 (community channel)

25 (ShopNBC-on January 4)

32 (Speed-on January 4)

43 (MTV2)

50 (used to be Style)

72 (Oxygen)

75 (used to be Jewelry TV)


In a sense, TWC is doing its own version of analog reclamation.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngnotices.html


----------



## speedyd718

anyone know if and when we'll get the hub hd channel? i think some markets do already. my son and i are stoked to watch the new transformers series, but it looks quite bleak in sd.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/19561064
> 
> 
> .... Retarded Music HD....



What is that? There is no way they are actually sending multi-ch, hi-res, lossless, HD audio for music.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19562287
> 
> 
> What is that? There is no way they are actually sending multi-ch, hi-res, lossless, HD audio for music.



Officially referred to as "Gospel Music HD".


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/19564234
> 
> 
> Officially referred to as "Gospel Music HD".



"Gospel Music HD"? PFFFFFFFFFFFFTT!!!
























Way to go TWC, adding all those popular, in demand HD channels.







I'm sure the viewer(if there even is one







) is counting down the days.


Who needs HD Net when you have gospel music...IN HD!!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19562287
> 
> 
> What is that? There is no way they are actually sending multi-ch, hi-res, lossless, HD audio for music.



If you're lucky, you'll get decent two-channel stereo. If you're unlucky you'll get dreadful "5.1 audio" like many of the shows on Paldia HD. x_x


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickdawg* /forum/post/19566118
> 
> 
> .........
> 
> If you're lucky, you'll get decent two-channel stereo. If you're unlucky you'll get dreadful "5.1 audio" like many of the shows on Paldia HD. x_x



Yup. Music in compressed lossy 2 ch converted to 5.1 is indeed dreadful.

Music properly engineered as hi-res lossless multi-ch 5.1 (DVD-A, BD music) is truly amazing.


Now that we know the TWC ch in question is Gospel Music HD, should not the voice of god be lossless?


----------



## hookbill

I don't know why but my subscription for emails for updates in this forum have all but completely stopped working. Anyone else having issues?


----------



## smakovits

Has anyone had any luck with this antenna?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new 


I have the generic 10$ antena from radio shack and in the basement I can get 19, but that is it. I ran a wire to the garage and gained channel 5, but barely. I thought in the garage I would be good as to get away from the reflection points in the basement, but that was not the case. Now I am in search of a new antenna I can put in the garage and or maybe even move it back into the basement.


I am in independence close to all the towers, so I do not require amplification. Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/19569569
> 
> 
> Has anyone had any luck with this antenna?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new
> 
> 
> I have the generic 10$ antena from radio shack and in the basement I can get 19, but that is it. I ran a wire to the garage and gained channel 5, but barely. I thought in the garage I would be good as to get away from the reflection points in the basement, but that was not the case. Now I am in search of a new antenna I can put in the garage and or maybe even move it back into the basement.
> 
> 
> I am in independence close to all the towers, so I do not require amplification. Thanks.



I'm sure that our friends over in the Cleveland OTA thread can help you with this. We're cable only.


----------



## smakovits

shoot, sorry about that, I thought thats where I was.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19567262
> 
> 
> .... should not the voice of god be lossless?



Wait, isn't it already lossless considering its in peoples heads?


----------



## tjs70

Signature Home Has launched in Cleveland. Whole House DVR with up to two DVR and 3 Clients.


Wideband Modem with Integrated Dual Band Wireless


All for $179.99


Ordered it this afternoon with Install on Tuesday. I will update the group with how it goes.



SignatureHome™ starts with our digital products, then adds—for just a little bit extra—premium services like advanced TV, superfast Broadband Internet and a smarter home phone. And it’s all topped off with exceptional customer service.



SignatureService™ on

Your Schedule

SignatureHomeTM begins and ends with a personal touch

Priority reservations made according to your schedule.

A SignatureHome™-trained technician will install and customize your devices and services for no additional charge.

Our team of specially trained Personal Solutions Advisors (PSA) provide 24/7 help by phone and online chat.


TV Exactly How You Like It with Digital TV

Store more, record more, enjoy more

New Whole House DVR lets you record a show in one room and watch it in another room.

Store an unprecendented up to 150 hours of HD programs.

Record up to 4 HD shows on 2 DVRs at once.


Turn your remote into a time machine

With Look Back® you can go back three days in time on your TV menu and watch shows you missed.

With Start Over® you can restart shows from the beginning, without setting your DVR.

Upload, Download and Stream with Ease

Do more using Road Runner Turbo with PowerBoost®

Effortlessly upload your vacation album, download a large presentation and stream your favorite TV shows.

Blazing fast Broadband Internet keeps the whole family happy.


Wireless for everyone—and every device

We'll set up a wireless WiFi Home Network so everyone can roam freely around the house at

the same time.

We'll also connect devices, including TVs, computers, gaming consoles and mobile phones.


Command Central for Voice Communications

New ways to stay on top of it all with Digital Home Phone

Voicemail to Email lets you stay connected on

the go.


Caller ID on PC and TV help you control interruptions and ignore telemarketers.

Distinctive ring patterns so you know when friends and family are calling.

VoiceZone™ lets you manage your digital home phone from any computer.



Offer includes Digital TV with Whole House DVR service on two TVs, Wideband Internet and Digital Home Phone Unlimited Nationwide. Retail rate in effect at the time will apply after promotional period. To receive all services, Digital TV and lease of a Digital set-top box are required. Some services are not available to CableCARD™ customers. Not all equipment supports all services. An HDTV set and an HD digital converter are required to receive HD programming. Actual number of recording hours’ capacity may vary. Actual speeds may vary. Digital TV and Digital Home Phone required for Caller ID on TV. Caller ID on PC requires installation of AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) on the user’s computer. Additional charges apply for taxes, fees, Directory Assistance, Operator Services and International calls. Customer must register with MyServices to receive Advanced Digital Home Phone features. Offer may not be combined with any other offer. Residential use only. Some restrictions apply. All services may not be available in all areas. Subject to change without notice. ©2010 Time Warner Cable, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Time Warner Cable and the Time Warner Cable logo are trademarks of Time Warner Inc. Used under license. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.




SignatureHome™ puts it all together to make life easier and more fun.

For everyone.




Interested in ordering SignatureHome™?


Chat

Hours of Operation

Mon-Sat 8 am - 11 pm (ET)

Sun 10 am - 6 pm (ET)

Chat online


Request a call back

Give us your phone number and a representative will call you to go over details.

Request a call back


Call

1-866-TWC-7323

(1-866-892-7323)


SignatureHome FAQs

See FAQs


Get SignatureHome™ for $179.99/mo

Call 1-866-TWC-7323


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/19628154
> 
> 
> Signature Home Has launched in Cleveland. Whole House DVR with up to two DVR and 3 Clients.
> 
> 
> Wideband Modem with Integrated Dual Band Wireless
> 
> 
> All for $179.99
> 
> 
> Ordered it this afternoon with Install on Tuesday. I will update the group with how it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> SignatureHome starts with our digital products, then addsfor just a little bit extrapremium services like advanced TV, superfast Broadband Internet and a smarter home phone. And it's all topped off with exceptional customer service.
> 
> 
> 
> SignatureService on
> 
> Your Schedule
> 
> SignatureHomeTM begins and ends with a personal touch
> 
> Priority reservations made according to your schedule.
> 
> A SignatureHome-trained technician will install and customize your devices and services for no additional charge.
> 
> Our team of specially trained Personal Solutions Advisors (PSA) provide 24/7 help by phone and online chat.
> 
> 
> TV Exactly How You Like It with Digital TV
> 
> Store more, record more, enjoy more
> 
> New Whole House DVR lets you record a show in one room and watch it in another room.
> 
> Store an unprecendented up to 150 hours of HD programs.
> 
> Record up to 4 HD shows on 2 DVRs at once.
> 
> 
> Turn your remote into a time machine
> 
> With Look Back® you can go back three days in time on your TV menu and watch shows you missed.
> 
> With Start Over® you can restart shows from the beginning, without setting your DVR.
> 
> Upload, Download and Stream with Ease
> 
> Do more using Road Runner Turbo with PowerBoost®
> 
> Effortlessly upload your vacation album, download a large presentation and stream your favorite TV shows.
> 
> Blazing fast Broadband Internet keeps the whole family happy.
> 
> 
> Wireless for everyoneand every device
> 
> We'll set up a wireless WiFi Home Network so everyone can roam freely around the house at
> 
> the same time.
> 
> We'll also connect devices, including TVs, computers, gaming consoles and mobile phones.
> 
> 
> Command Central for Voice Communications
> 
> New ways to stay on top of it all with Digital Home Phone
> 
> Voicemail to Email lets you stay connected on
> 
> the go.
> 
> 
> Caller ID on PC and TV help you control interruptions and ignore telemarketers.
> 
> Distinctive ring patterns so you know when friends and family are calling.
> 
> VoiceZone lets you manage your digital home phone from any computer.
> 
> 
> 
> Offer includes Digital TV with Whole House DVR service on two TVs, Wideband Internet and Digital Home Phone Unlimited Nationwide. Retail rate in effect at the time will apply after promotional period. To receive all services, Digital TV and lease of a Digital set-top box are required. Some services are not available to CableCARD customers. Not all equipment supports all services. An HDTV set and an HD digital converter are required to receive HD programming. Actual number of recording hours' capacity may vary. Actual speeds may vary. Digital TV and Digital Home Phone required for Caller ID on TV. Caller ID on PC requires installation of AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) on the user's computer. Additional charges apply for taxes, fees, Directory Assistance, Operator Services and International calls. Customer must register with MyServices to receive Advanced Digital Home Phone features. Offer may not be combined with any other offer. Residential use only. Some restrictions apply. All services may not be available in all areas. Subject to change without notice. ©2010 Time Warner Cable, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Time Warner Cable and the Time Warner Cable logo are trademarks of Time Warner Inc. Used under license. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SignatureHome puts it all together to make life easier and more fun.
> 
> For everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interested in ordering SignatureHome?
> 
> 
> Chat
> 
> Hours of Operation
> 
> Mon-Sat 8 am - 11 pm (ET)
> 
> Sun 10 am - 6 pm (ET)
> 
> Chat online
> 
> 
> Request a call back
> 
> Give us your phone number and a representative will call you to go over details.
> 
> Request a call back
> 
> 
> Call
> 
> 1-866-TWC-7323
> 
> (1-866-892-7323)
> 
> 
> SignatureHome FAQs
> 
> See FAQs
> 
> 
> Get SignatureHome for $179.99/mo
> 
> Call 1-866-TWC-7323



Well, I see something that kind of bothers me. I thought the DVR was capable of recording 4 shows at once. Apparently it's on two DVR's which to me brings up the question, what if you want 3 DVR's in your house? Is the system not capable of doing more then 4 shows at a time?


*Offer includes Digital TV with Whole House DVR service on two TVs, Wideband Internet and Digital Home Phone Unlimited Nationwide. Retail rate in effect at the time will apply after promotional period.*


Retail rate in effect at the time will apply after promotional period. And how much is that exactly? That sounds like the same bait and switch they use when you first sign up. It's very attractive at the price they offer it to you. But for how long?


Digital phone service. You know there is nothing I hate worst then paying for something I don't want. I have no need for digital phone.


I give a big thumbs up to them supplying a wireless network. If something goes wrong you can call them. But it only cost about 80.00 to buy a good router and set it up yourself. Just replaced my old router which I had for four years. Internet hasn't gone down and router is working great.


Anyway get back to us. Can you attach an eSATA? Is that 150 hours (not unprecedented) per DVR or is that the total of both DVR's? What kind of Road Runner are they giving with this?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/19628154
> 
> 
> Signature Home Has launched in Cleveland. Whole House DVR with up to two DVR and 3 Clients.
> 
> 
> Wideband Modem with Integrated Dual Band Wireless
> 
> 
> All for $179.99



Not sure I see the big bargain here, or maybe I'm missing something. I've had WOW cable for years and I pay $158 mo for:

- two HD boxes (only one DVR)

- premium digital TV pkg

- Showtime, Encore, TMC, Starz, CineMax

- HS internet (8 mbps)

- TWO phone lines


Signature does give you:

- addl DVR

- more advanced DVR capabilities (not that I've ever had need to transfer a recording to another TV, but I see where that could be handy to some)

- N band Wifi router (I own my own with my preferred 3rd party firmware)


Signature sounds like a re-badged ATT Uverse. What does this $179 mo adjust too after the intro period?


----------



## nickdawg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19628263
> 
> 
> Anyway get back to us. Can you attach an eSATA? Is that 150 hours (not unprecedented) per DVR or is that the total of both DVR's? What kind of Road Runner are they giving with this?



I saw on the regular TWC thread that it's two networked DVRs, each with 500gb hard drives(for a total of 1TB). Unless they're giving us something crappier(I'm not surprised







). You _can_ attach an eSATA in the same sense you _can_ duct tape a toaster to a microwave.







I haven't read the Navigator board in a long time, but last I remember even the most current versions of Navigator weren't 'playing nice' with the eSATA drive.


----------



## hookbill

I don't remember what time it was but for one or two seconds I saw my tv lose connection to the cable. A couple of hours later I noticed the tuner adapter for the TiVo doing the infamous blinking 8 times and a pause. I tried powering the box down, then I just had the continuous blink.


Then I remembered that weird glitch I spotted downstairs and sure enough the other tuner adapter was also doing the 8 blinks thing.


I called cable card support and got them back on line. I'm just wondering if anybody else had an issue with their tuner adapters tonight?


----------



## CLEHD

hookbill and other TiVo owners,


I found out just now that FOX Soccer Channel HD is available, but it does not show up in the TiVo Guide. I found it by chance on my SA. It is channel 1318, by the way.


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19637796
> 
> 
> I don't remember what time it was but for one or two seconds I saw my tv lose connection to the cable. A couple of hours later I noticed the tuner adapter for the TiVo doing the infamous blinking 8 times and a pause. I tried powering the box down, then I just had the continuous blink.
> 
> 
> Then I remembered that weird glitch I spotted downstairs and sure enough the other tuner adapter was also doing the 8 blinks thing.
> 
> 
> I called cable card support and got them back on line. I'm just wondering if anybody else had an issue with their tuner adapters tonight?



I didn't notice anything. Did you get this resolved?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19647689
> 
> 
> hookbill and other TiVo owners,
> 
> 
> I found out just now that FOX Soccer Channel HD is available, but it does not show up in the TiVo Guide. I found it by chance on my SA. It is channel 1318, by the way.



I'll send them a channel line up update, and yes, I got it resolved.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19647689
> 
> 
> hookbill and other TiVo owners,
> 
> 
> I found out just now that FOX Soccer Channel HD is available, but it does not show up in the TiVo Guide. I found it by chance on my SA. It is channel 1318, by the way.



Yeah I found that on Saturday when I was looking up soccer games in the guide by name. It lists the new channels under the content they fall under if you search by name but not in the regular guide. I'm guessing on the 15th they should be in the regular guide.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* /forum/post/19647725
> 
> 
> Yeah I found that on Saturday when I was looking up soccer games in the guide by name. It lists the new channels under the content they fall under if you search by name but not in the regular guide. I'm guessing on the 15th they should be in the regular guide.



Ha Ha, if you don't tell them it won't get done. I thought there was a place to do it on line that was easier then calling them, but I'll give them a call if necessary.


----------



## Dweezilz

Yeah I'd usually agree, but they did set the live date as 12/15 a few months ago so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until Thursday hits and no guide listing (I'll give them until the end of the 15th on Weds). I've seen several times in the past where new channels are there early and then get listed on the date they say it will be live...or was it you all along calling them hook.


----------



## tjs70

Had my Signature Home install today. Went very well. Three Tech's. Tested every outlet for issues. Installed WHDVR with two servers and two clients. Works very well. They are indeed 500GB Samsung DVR's. Much faster than the 8640 Cisco it replaced. In talking to the techs you can have any combination of Server and Clients up to 16 total Meaning you could have up to 8TB of storage. New modem is awesome as well. Docsis 3 is not turned on for upstream but the modem does bond on the downstream currently. Getting 50+ mbps down but only 768 up right now. Tech's said 5 mbps upstream should be live in the 1st quarter. Main issue to turning it on right now is old modems that are not compatible with Docsis 3 that need to be replaced in the field.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Had my Signature Home install today. Went very well. Three Tech's. Tested every outlet for issues. Installed WHDVR with two servers and two clients. Works very well. They are indeed 500GB Samsung DVR's. Much faster than the 8640 Cisco it replaced. In talking to the techs you can have any combination of Server and Clients up to 16 total Meaning you could have up to 8TB of storage. New modem is awesome as well. Docsis 3 is not turned on for upstream but the modem does bond on the downstream currently. Getting 50+ mbps down but only 768 up right now. Tech's said 5 mbps upstream should be live in the 1st quarter. Main issue to turning it on right now is old modems that are not compatible with Docsis 3 that need to be replaced in the field.



What cable premium channels are included in the $180/month fee for this service?


----------



## hookbill

Whats the cost after the promotional periodd?


----------



## oachalon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/19649281
> 
> 
> Had my Signature Home install today. Went very well. Three Tech's. Tested every outlet for issues. Installed WHDVR with two servers and two clients. Works very well. They are indeed 500GB Samsung DVR's. Much faster than the 8640 Cisco it replaced. In talking to the techs you can have any combination of Server and Clients up to 16 total Meaning you could have up to 8TB of storage. New modem is awesome as well. Docsis 3 is not turned on for upstream but the modem does bond on the downstream currently. Getting 50+ mbps down but only 768 up right now. Tech's said 5 mbps upstream should be live in the 1st quarter. Main issue to turning it on right now is old modems that are not compatible with Docsis 3 that need to be replaced in the field.



Whoa 50+ mb down? Is this a special internet package that signature home offers? Im currently have RoadRunner Turbo, which i believe is 15mbps. Did they change something. Which cable modem did they give you?


----------



## tjs70

I have never had TWC not renew my pricing at the end of a promotion period. In fact last time the restored my rates to my promotion rate and gave me a month free. Just have to ask them.


----------



## tjs70

It is a Motorola SBG6580. Currently it is allowing for Bonding which is part of Docsis 3. However they have not turned on the Docsis 3 yet so I am getting the same 768 up. However once activated up will be 5 mbps. I cant wait.


----------



## tjs70

No premiums Included. However it does include 2 DVR's Docsis 3 Modem and Phone Modem. Got some discounts on premiums however.


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* 
Yeah I'd usually agree, but they did set the live date as 12/15 a few months ago so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until Thursday hits and no guide listing (I'll give them until the end of the 15th on Weds). I've seen several times in the past where new channels are there early and then get listed on the date they say it will be live...or was it you all along calling them hook.








It's always me calling them. Now they have the interactive so you can do it on line, I gave them the info and it usually takes 5 business days. If it starts today then I didn't have anything to do with it.


----------



## hookbill

Doesn't seem right if I'm paying for T.W. Turbo that I shouldn't have their fastest modem. I'll have them out here installing one of those for me in no time, just wait and see.


----------



## terryfoster

Comcast was able to roll out DOCSIS 3.0 without replacing all modems in the field, so don't hold your breath on that (they may be referring to their internal equipment rather than the end user equipment needing replacement). Since DOCSIS 3.0 isn't fully implemented in this area TWC doesn't have the corresponding new packages to buy to have the "fastest speeds". When Comcast rolled out DOCSIS 3.0 they essentially bumped some existing package speeds and added one or two new tiers that required the new DOCSIS 3.0 modem (Ultra/Extreme).


Here's what the upgrade looked like for some Comcast markets:
Quote:

Originally Posted by *Ken H* 
Here are the tiers, old & new:


Pre-DOCSIS 3.0

Economy (1/384)

Performance (6/1)

Performance Plus (8/2)

Blast! (16/2)


DOCSIS 3.0

Economy (1/384)

Performance (12/2)

Blast! (16/2)

Ultra (22/5)

Extreme (50/10)


----------



## Dweezilz

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
It's always me calling them. Now they have the interactive so you can do it on line, I gave them the info and it usually takes 5 business days. If it starts today then I didn't have anything to do with it.
Last night the channels appeared when scrolling through the channel list. I was in a rush and wasn't thinking so I forgot to check to see if they were on the guide. I'm guessing they were because they weren't previously available by scrolling through the channels while on another channel so that change was made. Who knows...maybe they are getting better...well...probably not. ha!


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dweezilz* 
Last night the channels appeared when scrolling through the channel list. I was in a rush and wasn't thinking so I forgot to check to see if they were on the guide. I'm guessing they were because they weren't previously available by scrolling through the channels while on another channel so that change was made. Who knows...maybe they are getting better...well...probably not. ha!
The channel will show but the guide data is still not available. I just checked my guide upstairs and no 1318. I thought it could be it just hasn't phoned in and received data but I see that www.zap2it.com is not showing it available either.


I've seen them add things pretty quick, since yesterday was Tuesday it might end up here by Friday. Or Monday.


Edit: We've posted this before and I had it bookmarked. If you do want to report a lineup issue just go here: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/...neup_tool.html


----------



## WilliamR

Wow, what a crazy problem I had (Macedonia, OH area) with a time warner DVR.


During a large snow storm, my cable box started displaying pixelated junk with large colored boxes all over the screen and the audio would stutter, etc. I called Time Warner, first they reboot my box, but it never comes back, it goes to 4 lighted boxes during the Mystro boot up then back to 3. Tech on the phone says that only happen during an outage. He checks and says yes it is an outage. 7 hours later I call back and tell them my box will no longer turn on (just 4 dashes on the front). They send a tech out. Comes out the next day. Tests signal strength, checks the whole house. We hook the cable directly to the TV and the quality is horrible, lines everywhere. He then runs a line from outside all the way into the house. Same thing. He says bad news, that means it is under the street somewhere and he has to escalate it. Would be 2 - 3 days before they get to it.


About 3 hours later I decide to turn on the cable box again to see if I can get to the stored shows, and to my surprise everything works. And in fact, it looks better then before. Quality is better, cleaner, sharper. And when I go to the guide, I have way more channels then I had before. I now have 3 HBO HD channels (never had before), some kind of horse channel, etc.


A day later, channels are still there and quality is still good. My internet connection speed test consistently now comes in at 23 Mbs.


I have no idea what happened but I am glad.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/19651366
> 
> 
> And when I go to the guide, I have way more channels then I had before. I now have 3 HBO HD channels (never had before), some kind of horse channel, etc.



Sounds like your box was reauthorized. Don't expect to see these extra channels hang around for too long.


----------



## k2rj

Looks like they found the problem and it wasn't under the street! (Probably an amp down the street.)


----------



## hookbill

I just told my wife about the Fox Soccer HD Channel. She said, "Great, when are they going to get the "Watch The Grass Grow HD" channel." roflol.


At least I thought that was funny coming from her.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/19651676
> 
> 
> Sounds like your box was reauthorized. Don't expect to see these extra channels hang around for too long.



Actually, I believe that if you subscribe to HBO already, any extra HBO's that are added are included at no extra charge. Same thing with SHO, MAX, STARZ, and the MOVIE channel.


As a side note, can someone please list the name and ch numbers of the new additions?


Thanks,


Ben Music


----------



## Tim Lones

Just noticed this morning that I am getting two new sports channels on our system:


YES-New York (Ch. 341)

NESN-Boston (Ch. 342)


They're both in the guide, but with no live pro sports-NESN has To Be Announced and YES has alternate programming where live sports would be..


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/19651863
> 
> 
> Actually, I believe that if you subscribe to HBO already, any extra HBO's that are added are included at no extra charge. Same thing with SHO, MAX, STARZ, and the MOVIE channel.
> 
> 
> As a side note, can someone please list the name and ch numbers of the new additions?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Ben Music



I was assuming the channels listed were ones they didn't subscribe to, not ones they just haven't seen before.


----------



## shooter21198

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
I just told my wife about the Fox Soccer HD Channel. She said, "Great, when are they going to get the "Watch The Grass Grow HD" channel." roflol.


At least I thought that was funny coming from her.
Outdoor Channel 2 HD is basically watch the grass grow in glorious High definition!


----------



## tjs70

I am surprised to see that you can stream the same show to more than one room. So you can be watching it in main room and stream to at least two additional rooms at the same time. Pretty impressive since Directv's Implementation only lets you have one remote room at a time. Fast forward and Rewind performance could use some improvement but overall it is pretty slick. Also would like to see folders to make organizing shows easier. According to the manuals you should also be able to attach client boxes using cat5 instead of coax connecting from main box to client. Haven't tried but I will over the next couple of days.


----------



## its.mike

So I just got off the phone and ordered the Signature Home package. Turns out the nice folks at CWC decided to raise my bill by $50 and now I get to save that with Signature Home plus I get faster road runner. They should be out tomorrow between 4 and 6 pm.


For those that already have it. With the Multiroom viewing option, if your watching something in one room and someone else wants to watch in another, does it play from the beginning in the second room or does it start where the first room is at?


----------



## hookbill

Enjoy. Hope it works out for you.


----------



## tjs70

The Samsung WHDVR starts at the beginning in the next room. I have tested it and it starts at the beginning. The amazing part is you can have the other 3 DVR/Client devices all playing the same show with staggered start times and they will all play just fine. WHDVR has been great so far. My only complaint is that you should be able to Delete programs on remote DVR/Client and set recordings there as well.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Samsung WHDVR starts at the beginning in the next room. I have tested it and it starts at the beginning. The amazing part is you can have the other 3 DVR/Client devices all playing the same show with staggered start times and they will all play just fine. WHDVR has been great so far. My only complaint is that you should be able to Delete programs on remote DVR/Client and set recordings there as well.



Wow, you can't delete programs from the client when you're done? Does the show start at the beginning if you stop/exit the recording somewhere in the middle in another room? If not, that kind of blows the whole "start in one room and pick it up in another" concept of WHDVR.


----------



## quern

All: Any suggestions to get TWC to give me a promotional rate? My rates just increased and they are telling me that they cannot give me new rates because I'm an existing customer. I'm pretty basic considering I'm using a tivo with cable card, digital home phone, digital variety and value, road runner and HBO.


thanks in advance.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quern* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All: Any suggestions to get TWC to give me a promotional rate? My rates just increased and they are telling me that they cannot give me new rates because I'm an existing customer. I'm pretty basic considering I'm using a tivo with cable card, digital home phone, digital variety and value, road runner and HBO.
> 
> 
> thanks in advance.



Tell them you're going with satellite.


----------



## black88mx6

It has been a while since I have posted here, but figured I would give an update on a new project I have just completed.


For years I have wanted to use a DVR on TW, but have been unwilling to rent one of the TW units or go Tivo. I have had a couple of Windows media centers running HTPC software XBMC and WMC without the ability to watch/record tv. With the addition of a Ceton InfiniTV 4 I am now able to use my HTCP to watch or record 4 channels at once. This setup requires a cable card and two tuning adapters from TW. I have no other subscriptions fees to TW other than my cable card fee. So far I have been running this configuration for the last week and it has been fantastic. Picture quality has been VERY good, and I get all HD and premium channels including SDV ones.


TW is mostly clueless about this setup. I had to tell them I had 2 Tivo's to get the cable card and tuning adapters sent out to me. I know that there are a few others in the area that have had there Ceton cards attached to TW NEO, but so far none have posted here.


----------



## Goldenager62

Happy Holidays to all.


----------



## ClevIndn

Tuning Adapter started 8-light blinking today for the first time in months.. anyone else?


Still haven't been able to get it solid even using all the old tricks.


EDIT: It is now back to solid green.


----------



## awyeah

So my parents just got digital cable. They are off the Cleveland Heights headend (I think). They got one cable box... It's an SA 3250HD. I am pretty sure it is running MDN. I am accustomed to ODN. It appears that it is a little unstable. The guide is sometimes empty until rebooting the box, and occasionally it reboots if you try to go into the menu.


The OCAP (HDC) boxes seem to not have these issues.


Does anyone know if OCAP boxes are available in this area? Perhaps the 4250HDC at minimum?


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/19703832
> 
> 
> So my parents just got digital cable. They are off the Cleveland Heights headend (I think). They got one cable box... It's an SA 3250HD. I am pretty sure it is running MDN. I am accustomed to ODN. It appears that it is a little unstable. The guide is sometimes empty until rebooting the box, and occasionally it reboots if you try to go into the menu.
> 
> 
> The OCAP (HDC) boxes seem to not have these issues.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if OCAP boxes are available in this area? Perhaps the 4250HDC at minimum?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Well, as far as I know all the boxes run Navigator now but really the only way to tell is go to the local office and ask if they have one, or if they can get you one.


----------



## hookbill

This is for premium users, I strongly suggest that no matter what premium service you are using you check to see if all channels are receiving guide data.


TiVo people, I've submitted a line up report. Channels missing are 1604 HBO2HD, 1605, HBOSHD, 1606 HBOFHD, 1644 SHOCSHD, AND 1645 SHOEXHD.


The on line method submitting to TiVo as opposed to zap2it.com seems to work better. They want your TiVo service number so that may expedite authenticity.


Edit: Excuse me for forgetting. *Merry Christmas everybody!!!!







*


----------



## Goldenager62

Anybody else have their box reboot last night?


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/19719986
> 
> 
> Anybody else have their box reboot last night?



I had some problems with my TiVo/CableCard last night that necessitated a reboot. I don't know if the two are related.


----------



## RonOhio

I reported the following channels to TiVo on December 16th:


1604 - HBO2H - HBO2 HD,

1605 - HSIGH - HBO Signature HD,

1606 - HFAMH - HBO Family HD,

1624 - ACTNH - Action Max HD,

1625 - THRLH - Thriller MAX HD,

1644 - CASHEH - SHO Showcase HD,

1645 - EXTH - SHO Extreme HD,

1680 - STZKH - Starz Kids & Family HD,


1113 - HALLH - Hallmark HD,

1141 - NHWHD - National Geographic Wild HD,

1318 - FXSCH - Fox Soccer HD


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RonOhio* /forum/post/19721474
> 
> 
> I reported the following channels to TiVo on December 16th:
> 
> 
> 1604 - HBO2H - HBO2 HD,
> 
> 1605 - HSIGH - HBO Signature HD,
> 
> 1606 - HFAMH - HBO Family HD,
> 
> 1624 - ACTNH - Action Max HD,
> 
> 1625 - THRLH - Thriller MAX HD,
> 
> 1644 - CASHEH - SHO Showcase HD,
> 
> 1645 - EXTH - SHO Extreme HD,
> 
> 1680 - STZKH - Starz Kids & Family HD,
> 
> 
> 1113 - HALLH - Hallmark HD,
> 
> 1141 - NHWHD - National Geographic Wild HD,
> 
> 1318 - FXSCH - Fox Soccer HD



Well, obviously they didn't follow up on it. How did you report it? I used the web site, and I do have a ticket number. If they don't catch it in 5 business days it usually means nothing was done.


----------



## hookbill

It looks like TiVo is caught up with the TWC line up now. I see a boatload of new channels came in.


----------



## ErieMarty

is now available on TW on channel 152 for those who are interested like my wife


----------



## basil lambri

As of this morning today on January 2 TWC has not added Antenna TV to their channel lineup. They had announced that they would add it on January 2.


----------



## ErieMarty

Quote:

Originally Posted by *basil lambri* 
As of the morning today on January 2 TWC has not added Antenna TV to their channel lineup. They had announced that they would add it on January 2.
is this a HD Channel or just a normal Digital one


----------



## basil lambri

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ErieMarty* 
is this a HD Channel or just a normal Digital one
It is channel 8.2 of WJW-TV and because it is a sub-channel it is in standard definition.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *basil lambri* /forum/post/19748578
> 
> 
> It is channel 8.2 of WJW-TV and because it is a sub-channel it is in standard definition.



OTA sub ch's can also be in HD. Our market has no HD sub's, but they do exist.


----------



## mbclev

Antenna TV is now on TWC on channel 988 (at least where WJW's main channel is on the system).


Also, channels 25 and 32 are no longer available on analog. That means, at least in Solon, there are now eight channels under channel 100 that can no longer be received on an old TV directly connected to cable (15, 21, 25, 32, 43, 50, 72 and 75). Channel 21 is still a community channel in the city of Cleveland itself (I saw a brief snippet of it on a TV where I work).


----------



## wd8kct

_This is from Antenna TV's Facebook page:_
*Antenna TV - Tribune Broadcasting Company*

This just in for you. Cable is coming to Cleveland. Unfortunately, I do not have a cable launch date yet.

Armstrong Utilities channel 410

Clear Picture Inc. & Massillon Cable channel 127

East Cleveland Cable TV channel 109

Time Warner Cable channel 988


----------



## wd8kct

WKBN's subchannel is in 720p HD along with the main and WRLM's subchannel is in 1080i HD with a 480i SD main... -Ed



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19753234
> 
> 
> OTA sub ch's can also be in HD. Our market has no HD sub's, but they do exist.


----------



## awyeah

So I'm getting the CableCARD for the TiVo tomorrow... I hope the TA comes soon as well, but who knows. I submitted the form...


Anyway, quick question. I'm now in the "Cleveland" area, I guess that means either Beachwood, Cleveland Heights, or Cleveland.


I'm going through the guided setup on the TiVo, and I selected the "I will get CableCARDs later" option.


Down in Twinsburg (Macedonia headend), I had the "digital rebuild" channel lineup which also appears on Zap2it. Here, TiVo doesn't give me that option, but Zap2it does, so all of my HD channels are in the old spots (400s).


Is this correct? Have they not moved the HDs to the 1000s up here yet, or should I submit a lineup issue to TiVo?


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/19765779
> 
> 
> So I'm getting the CableCARD for the TiVo tomorrow... I hope the TA comes soon as well, but who knows. I submitted the form...
> 
> 
> Anyway, quick question. I'm now in the "Cleveland" area, I guess that means either Beachwood, Cleveland Heights, or Cleveland.
> 
> 
> I'm going through the guided setup on the TiVo, and I selected the "I will get CableCARDs later" option.
> 
> 
> Down in Twinsburg (Macedonia headend), I had the "digital rebuild" channel lineup which also appears on Zap2it. Here, TiVo doesn't give me that option, but Zap2it does, so all of my HD channels are in the old spots (400s).
> 
> 
> Is this correct? Have they not moved the HDs to the 1000s up here yet, or should I submit a lineup issue to TiVo?



They should be in the 1,000's. They moved there a month or two ago. I believe that I am in the Cleveland Heights region.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wd8kct* /forum/post/19762795
> 
> 
> WKBN's subchannel is in 720p HD along with the main and WRLM's subchannel is in 1080i HD with a 480i SD main... -Ed



Ah, thanks. I only get the Cleveland locals so no HD sub's. But they do exist.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19765897
> 
> 
> They should be in the 1,000's. They moved there a month or two ago. I believe that I am in the Cleveland Heights region.



Thanks. I submitted a lineup issue noting that zap2it has both "digital" and "digital rebuild" as choices.


Hopefully soon I will have digital rebuild as a choice during guided setup.


----------



## wd8kct

WKBN covers a large area, I've read of people watching TV-27 from around Cleveland... they run a lot of the non-prime syndicated programming in HD while WUAB does not...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/19766719
> 
> 
> Ah, thanks. I only get the Cleveland locals so no HD sub's. But they do exist.


----------



## awyeah




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/19765779
> 
> 
> Down in Twinsburg (Macedonia headend), I had the "digital rebuild" channel lineup which also appears on Zap2it. Here, TiVo doesn't give me that option, but Zap2it does, so all of my HD channels are in the old spots (400s).
> 
> 
> Is this correct? Have they not moved the HDs to the 1000s up here yet, or should I submit a lineup issue to TiVo?



Followup on this. I got a response from TiVo. I'll put this here for reference.


TiVo gives you the option to select multiple channel lineups in an "advanced" screen that I missed (I need to pay more attention to detail).


* When you're at the list of cable providers, highlight your provider and press select.

* You'll then see the screen that says "Now you'll set up your cable channels" - and at the bottom, it says "Press ENTER for advanced setup"

* Press enter (NOT select). At this screen, you get the option to select from multiple lineups.


At this screen, I was able to select the "digital rebuild" option which has the HD channels in the 1000s.


Hopefully this will help anyone else who may try to whip through the screens quickly and miss that little "advanced setup" note on the bottom.


----------



## CLEHD

Does anyone know on what channel Antenna TV is on a STB/TiVo set-up? I heard that it is 8.2 on an OTA/QAM set-up.


Thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CLEHD* /forum/post/19839405
> 
> 
> Does anyone know on what channel Antenna TV is on a STB/TiVo set-up? I heard that it is 8.2 on an OTA/QAM set-up.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Yep, 8.2 per Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cleveland_TV


----------



## Inundated

8.2 is on the digital cable box as 988, in all TWC areas that get WJW...


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/19840726
> 
> 
> 8.2 is on the digital cable box as 988, in all TWC areas that get WJW...



Yes, thank you. I found it earlier, buried in there.


Cannot wait to watch some Benny Hill!


----------



## CLEHD

I just noticed that Antenna TV does not appear in TiVo's lineup. So, I used the link that I found on this forum ( http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/...neup_tool.html ) and submitted the channel guide update to TiVo.


----------



## its.mike

I'm starting to think they gave up on updating the Programming Notices page, the same way they let twcneo.com lapse.


And still waiting on wideband to be rolled out in southern stark county.


----------



## hookbill

Do to the wonderful economy in the state of Ohio, my wife has taken a job in the state of Virginia. She's been staying at one of those extended stay hotels for a little over 6 months and comes home every two weeks.


The hotel has bumped the price on her by 200.00 a month, so she decided to get an apartment instead. The apartment she selected has one option in that area. Comcrap. Now check this out.


For installation of digital basic service only and one high speed internet they are charging over $80.00. For the install! Time Warner does it for free in our area. However the total service for 6 months is 64.98. Crime Warner on the other hand has a 12 month offer for the same service for 94.90.


Either way, what a couple of crooks, huh? And what do you want to bet that Comcrap price will jump in 6 months.


One of the other apartments she looked at had Fios, Cox, or Comcrap. I'll bet there was a deal in there somewhere and who wouldn't prefer Fios? When she checked in on that other apartment however the price had jumped on it so now she's stuck in an area with just Comcrap.


They told her that this box she's getting is for digital television only, no HD. I'm giving her component cables to take with her just in case there is a hook up on the box. I'll bet there is.


So now we are getting screwed by two different cable companies. We are hoping that this next 6 months will be all she needs to spend in VA and she can come home. This is a big house and being the only human living here is kind of lonely. I do have my birds however to talk to but some of them are wise guys and give me the raspberry when I say something to them.


Tomorrow I'm taking the 3 legged SA 8300 back to TW. Good bye and good riddance. That will take 8.00 a month off the bill.


I'll get more details on Comcrap to report back tomorrow.


----------



## k2rj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19879639
> 
> 
> Do to the wonderful economy in the state of Ohio, my wife has taken a job in the state of Virginia. She's been staying at one of those extended stay hotels for a little over 6 months and comes home every two weeks.
> 
> 
> The hotel has bumped the price on her by 200.00 a month, so she decided to get an apartment instead. The apartment she selected has one option in that area. Comcrap. Now check this out.
> 
> 
> For installation of digital basic service only and one high speed internet they are charging over $80.00. For the install! Time Warner does it for free in our area. However the total service for 6 months is 64.98. Crime Warner on the other hand has a 12 month offer for the same service for 94.90.
> 
> 
> Either way, what a couple of crooks, huh? And what do you want to bet that Comcrap price will jump in 6 months.
> 
> 
> One of the other apartments she looked at had Fios, Cox, or Comcrap. I'll bet there was a deal in there somewhere and who wouldn't prefer Fios? When she checked in on that other apartment however the price had jumped on it so now she's stuck in an area with just Comcrap.
> 
> 
> They told her that this box she's getting is for digital television only, no HD. I'm giving her component cables to take with her just in case there is a hook up on the box. I'll bet there is.
> 
> 
> So now we are getting screwed by two different cable companies. We are hoping that this next 6 months will be all she needs to spend in VA and she can come home. This is a big house and being the only human living here is kind of lonely. I do have my birds however to talk to but some of them are wise guys and give me the raspberry when I say something to them.
> 
> 
> Tomorrow I'm taking the 3 legged SA 8300 back to TW. Good bye and good riddance. That will take 8.00 a month off the bill.
> 
> 
> I'll get more details on Comcrap to report back tomorrow.



Hook,

I retired just before Christmas and we moved down to Cape Canaveral, FL, which is Brighthouse country. Most of the condo's here provide expanded basic cable as part of the HOA fees [I'm told Brighthouse has a pretty sweet contract price for condos] . I added 8/1 RoadRunner HSI and digital cable with a DVR (same SA8300 we're all so fond of!) for about $50 per month. There was no in stallation fee and it was installed the day sfter I got here. So I'm pretty pleased with Brighthouse.

On the other hand, my sister in Chattanooga, TN has Comcrap and she hates it. And on our way to Florida we stopped to see friends in Quarryville, PA who also had Comcrap. They got digital cable with one of the tiny boxes I've seen in some hotel room installations and the guy didn't even program the remote correctly.


Ron J.


----------



## hookbill

I suppose the distance is the same but I just found out that the Macedonia office for TW is gone. Closest one is in Garfield Hts now for me.


----------



## ajstan99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
So now we are getting screwed by two different cable companies. We are hoping that this next 6 months will be all she needs to spend in VA and she can come home.
Hi Hook, it's been a while. Just a thought: have you considered a Slingbox as an alternative to purchasing cable in VA? You connect the Slingbox to your home cable box and router, then you can view it and control it over the Internet through a web browser or Slingbox client software. It also allows you to watch TV on PCs you have in the house.

http://www.slingbox.com 


That way, all your wife would would need to watch TV in VA is Internet access and a computer.


Best Buy and Walmart carry Slingbox (Amazon is cheapest), so if it doesn't work for you, or you/she can't live with the quirks, you could always return it.


Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## hookbill

Wow, the distance is not the same. It took much longer to get to the one in Garfield Hts then Macedonia. They have the office located in the middle of an open air mall.


When you go in there it's like going into a bank in Los Angeles. Bullet proof glass and just a slot to slide the box in and out. Two people working, no crowd when I got there.


Some of you guys who know how I feel about the SA 8300 might find this amusing. I'm always talking about tying it to my bumper and dragging it back to TW. Well that didn't happen but some how the cord popped out of the trunk and I didn't see it when I closed the trunk. So I drove it the 15 miles with the cord dragging on the ground the entire way. People were honking at me and I couldn't figure out what they wanted.


Anyway, there was no damage to the chord, the plug was what actually drug in the snow and cold to the office.


Now about Slingbox. That's a good idea, but doesn't it require a Windows computer with Windows 7? And for the computer all my wife has is her laptop. She took the 26" LG LCD with her.


So that is a cool idea, but I think she wanted a real screen to look at. But I appreciate the information.


----------



## ajstan99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19887042
> 
> 
> Now about Slingbox. That's a good idea, but doesn't it require a Windows computer with Windows 7? And for the computer all my wife has is her laptop. She took the 26" LG LCD with her.
> 
> 
> So that is a cool idea, but I think she wanted a real screen to look at. But I appreciate the information.



No problem, Hook. FWIW, there are both Mac and Windows 7/XP clients, and you could connect the laptop to the TV to use as a monitor for the laptop.


There are also iPad/iPhone and Android clients, but they cost $29.95 each in addition to the cost of the Slingbox.


In any case, take care and glad to see everyone's pretty much still around.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19887042
> 
> 
> Wow, the distance is not the same. It took much longer to get to the one in Garfield Hts then Macedonia. They have the office located in the middle of an open air mall.
> 
> 
> When you go in there it's like going into a bank in Los Angeles. Bullet proof glass and just a slot to slide the box in and out. Two people working, no crowd when I got there.



I remember the Macedonia office from when I lived there... I live in Cleveland east suburbs, but I hate dealing with the nasty, incompetent people at the Severance office. So I go to the office on Lakeside Avenue. Dicey neighborhood, but easy parking, nice people who are helpful, and no bulletproof glass


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19887042
> 
> 
> Wow, the distance is not the same. It took much longer to get to the one in Garfield Hts then Macedonia. They have the office located in the middle of an open air mall.
> 
> 
> When you go in there it's like going into a bank in Los Angeles. Bullet proof glass and just a slot to slide the box in and out. Two people working, no crowd when I got there.
> 
> 
> Some of you guys who know how I feel about the SA 8300 might find this amusing.



At least its in the middle of a mall. There is a Huntington bank in Canton that only allows 1 person in the entrance and exit doors at a time. Bullet proof glass on both sets of doors, and a metal detector that you have to pass through between the doors.


I had the 8240HDC box for a while and would have gladly traded that for an 8300. The 8240 was a POS, if you had more than 10% of the drive full it would be painfully slow to go through the guide and change channels. And the boot time if it ever lost power was almost as bad as watching paint dry.


----------



## Inundated

I think I went to the Macedonia office once, back before the TWC merger.


Last time I had to go to a TWC office, I had no problem at the one in Midway Plaza in Akron (on the Tallmadge border on Brittain Road, just down the street from TWC's old long-time office near Chapel Hill Mall).


That area south of Chapel Hill has become very, very dicey in the past 20 years - I used to LIVE in that area 25 years ago! - but going into the Midway Plaza office is not really a big deal. Just don't go there at night...


----------



## toby10

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
Do to the wonderful economy in the state of Ohio, my wife has taken a job in the state of Virginia. She's been staying at one of those extended stay hotels for a little over 6 months and comes home every two weeks........
Yup, Ohio is third to last when comparing state's "business friendliness" attributes.

Ohio's biggest hit in this category: higher taxes


----------



## rick490

I'm surprised no one is discussing the new TWC remote dvr manager feature in our area. It's been available at least a couple weeks. It's pretty good. You can manage your dvr from any Internet connection including mobile phones.


----------



## ErieMarty

We have CBS, ABC and NBC.


any here if when and if they will be adding FOX on Demand so you can get all 4 networks on demand.


I think its great that you can go back and watch network shows you missed plus you miss all the comercials too..


----------



## MichaelJay

I haven't been a Time Warner customer for years after being spoiled by the PQ of Dish and Uverse. Unfortunately I'm moving to a condo where AT&T has the lamest of capabilities (no uverse, slowest DSL speed). So my only options are satellite and TW.


At the very least, I have to use TW for internet access but would like to know if TW's quality has improved for TV.


Should I return to Dish or Time Warner? Boy, I hate to even have to ask that question!


----------



## hookbill

I don't recommend any cable company. I'm stuck with TW due to line of site issues or else I'd have D*.


Their "digital: channels look like crap next to satellite but I think the HD pq is good,


----------



## hookbill

It appears that Ohio Media Watch has a new web address: http://ohiomediawatch.wordpress.com/ 


You'll find the link at the old address too, just thought I'd pass it along.


----------



## Goldenager62

I just got a card in the mail today, that my cable bill is going up $6 a month.


----------



## hookbill

What kind of bull crap reason did they give?


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/19977489
> 
> 
> What kind of bull crap reason did they give?



They gave the reason of increased costs for sports and broadcast programming.


Effective March 1, 2011:


"The price for Basic Cable will go from $13.75/mo. to $15.80."


"The price for Standard service will go from $64.85/mo, to $69.95/mo."


"Premium channels rates will be $12.99/mo. for the first channel and $10.00 for each additional channel."


"The DigitalClassic tier will be $5.00/mo."


"You Road Runner Broadband service may also be changing. Refer to you billing statement for information."


----------



## hookbill

If you do turn anything in to TWC, a DVR, a box, whatever, they will have you sign something and give you a paper receipt like a cash register receipt. on 1/24 I brought back the SA 8300 to them, they took my name, my phone number and looked at my drivers license. I saw the lady punch into the computer and I believed it was received.


So when my wife told me how much the bill was and it was exactly the same as it was the month before I called them. The woman at the other end of the phone was very nice. She said she could see I returned something on 1/24 but she couldn't tell what it was. She asked if I had a receipt and of course I didn't because I saw them on the computer with it, I figured they took it off right then and there.


She told me there was nothing she could do and I'd have to go back to the office to get a copy of the receipt. Well, the office is in Garfield Heights and I told her I couldn't believe this could be possible. On two separate occasions she put me on hold while she talked to a supervisor. No dice. I continued to argue, politely, that if I have 4 cable cards and 1 DVR, what else could I have turned in? Finally after putting me on hold again she made the adjustment and removed the DVR.


Now had I not worked that out or if the Garfield Heights office couldn't help me they would claim that I owe them, and this is hilarious, 400.00 for the DVR! 400.00 for a DVR that was at least 3 years old and only had 3 rubber feet.


So if you do turn something in, don't assume it's taken care of like I did. Hang on to your paperwork. I think I got lucky today.


----------



## kevin120

 http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngnotices.html 


also does any area in neo carry speed or Shop NBC in analog I thought those were moved down to expanded basic digital from digital variety they show up as being moved to digital only in cleveland,elyria and some other areas?


These changes are to be effective on or after April 5th 2011.


Here in my TWC division they moved these to digital to make room for new services in december of 2009 to allow for SDV and DOCSIS 3.0:


TruTV

Oxygen

Style

ABC Family

CMT


----------



## bassguitarman

Gee it used to be they only increased things once a year

Now it looks like twice a year.


----------



## bgiese

Hi There,


I currently have DirecTV service and I'm actually very happy with DirecTV and my 2 HR-21 DVRs.


Unfortunately, I live in North Ridgeville and my internet with Windstream has been terrible for the past 6 weeks and they claim a "fix" of their network won't happen until they upgrade our local area to a bigger pipe. (DS3 to OC3).


Until last month; I was happy as a clam. 3.0 Mbps to 6.0 Mbps internet and great TV. Now, our internet is usually 0.5 Mbps to 1.0 Mbps in the evening. It's terrible for gaming and netflix. It's worthless.


So, I'm thinking of dumping Windstream and moving to Time Warner, but in order to save some money; I'm giving serious thought to dumping DirecTV and doing the telephone, internet and TV bundle with TWC in North Ridgeville.


How are the DVRs with Time Warner? Can I record multiple HD shows at one time? Will they give me two DVRs if I want them? (one for the family room and one for the bedroom)


How is the audio and video sync on their boxes? My in-laws have a WOW box in North Olmsted and on the local HD channels it seems that the audio/video is out of sync by about 1/2 a second or more. It drives me crazy.


Have any of you switched from DirecTV to TWC and been happy with the move?


----------



## hookbill

One of us is very confused. Probably me. Windstream to the best of my knowledge uses Dish Network, not Direct TV. There's a big difference there.


The only way that TW can compete with Direct TV is with their new special service that they have 4 dvr's a total of 150 hours recording time over the 4 different dvr's. They do offer On Demand, Restart, and something that can go back a few days to something you missed.


This all comes with phone and Internet, right now Road Runner Turbo but that will change when they get their even faster internet service. The price is 175.00 but to the best of my knowledge that is not a guaranteed price.


Their regular DVR is nothing more then a glorified VCR. 20 hours HD recording time and not very reliable IMHO. I've had bad experiences with them, YMMV.


----------



## bgiese

Thanks Bill. Yes. I have DirecTV (not part of the Windstream bundle). My Windstream bundle is only Phone and DSL. I didn't qualify for the Dish Network bundle because I was a previous Dish subscriber; plus at the time when we signed up with Windstream DSL; I was already under a 24 month contract with DirecTV.


The reason I'm thinking of dropping DirecTV when I drop Windstream is simply in order to keep things simple. I'd prefer one bill for TV/Phone/Internet. Plus, the way the house is wired; I'm leary of a TWC tech screwing up my DirecTV wiring if I only added Road Runner.


Financially, I doesn't make sense to keep DirecTV and then only have Time Warner for Internet.


I do love my DirecTV DVR. Both boxes have been very reliable. My only beef with DirecTV has been rain fade in heavy storms and the lack of the local sub channels.


I guess another option would be to do a cable card and get an HD Tivo (or two). Anybody have any luck with Cable Cards and Tivo and TWC?


----------



## hookbill

That would be me. I have two Tivo's and I use 4 cable cards, you would only need 1 per TiVo.


There are some big minuses for some people using TiVo's. There is no on demand, although TiVo offer's it's own on demand. There is no start over, but if you have a DVR who needs that?


A while back cable implemented Switched Digital Video as a way of adding additional HD channels with the limited band with it has. This requires two way communication and neither TiVo nor cable cards can co that.


To take care of this issue, cable offers their tuner adapter which is free so that you can have two way communication with these SDV channels. And there is a lot of them.


Now it's my experience that when you go to record something on a SDV channel, sometimes things don't quite work right. TiVo does it's job, but apparently the actual signal doesn't always reach the box. This happens primarily if you're recording, not if you are just watching. For example for the past 4 weeks I've tried to record TNA on SPIKE. I've only been successful one time and that was after it failed two times I left the channel on Spike. The next week I didn't think about it and the signal didn't come through again.


I believe this is the fault of the tuner adapter, because the moment you stop the recording and go back to live television the channel is there. You also have to take into consideration that TiVo charges for their services as well, however you can stream from several sources including Amazon and Netflix. Podcast on the web can be seen on your television. And of course you can move some programs to your computer. But that's limited to the local channels only. Anything else you record has to stay on the DVR it's recorded on. The analog channels can also be moved.


I still prefer my TiVo's over their standard DVR but I don't know anything about this new package that TW is offering. I just know it's expensive. They call it signature service.


I would warn you that you are better off just getting the internet and keeping Direct TV. If I had a line of sight I'd put both of my TiVo's on ebay and get one of Direct TV's TiVos. Did you know they had them? They do. You may have some rain fade but the pq of your digital channels are so much better then cables it's not even funny.


That's my advice to you. Good luck whatever you decide. And it's hook, not Bill, the only Bill I know use to be President or is a dollar.


----------



## bgiese

Sorry Hook. I didn't notice the signature on the earlier post.


I don't think the cable card would pass the wife's approval meter. I'm lucky that she tolerates all my toys (because they work pretty well). My Harmony remote is a life saver; or she'd never be able to have the surround sound or switch inputs on the AV Receiver.


Maybe; I'll give TWC a call and see how much Internet is without the TV service. I'm so frustrated with my DSL with windstream.


My fear is they'll screw up something with the wiring. DirectV did a great job tying into the existing wiring. House was pre-wired for cable when it was built. A good friend had TWC really screw things up for him a few years ago because the installer wasn't careful to see how the DirecTV wiring was done before he started cutting lines and hooking in the cable for his internet.


I do love my DirecTV DVRs. I did have their Tivo before they replaced it with their own branded DVR. It was an adjustment but I've gotten very comfortable with it and the PQ is great on all the HD channels. I have read that a new DirecTV Tivo box is in the pipeline but I haven't really looked into it.


Have a good night. Thanks for the feedback.


~ Brian


----------



## STEELERSRULE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin120* /forum/post/19989314
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngnotices.html
> 
> 
> also does any area in neo carry speed or Shop NBC in analog I thought those were moved down to expanded basic digital from digital variety they show up as being moved to digital only in cleveland,elyria and some other areas?
> 
> 
> These changes are to be effective on or after April 5th 2011.
> 
> 
> Here in my TWC division they moved these to digital to make room for new services in december of 2009 to allow for SDV and DOCSIS 3.0:
> 
> 
> TruTV
> 
> Oxygen
> 
> Style
> 
> ABC Family
> 
> CMT



Actually, I am trying to find that out Kevin.


Whether or not TWC in Northeast Ohio(I have TWC out of Sharon, PA, whose HUB I believe is out of Akron, OH) is operating on Docsis 3.0 or not.


Does anyone know, and if no, are these channel moves, which don't affect me, being done in order to implement Docsis 3.0?


If it is available, I already am using a Docsis 3.0 Modem with my TWC for over 4 months now(ZOOM model 5341 found at Best Buy for about $90).


But if they made the switch AFTER I installed the unit, wouldn't I have to RESTART/REBOOT the Modem in order to get the new Docsis 3.0 speeds?


I really have no idea. Thank G*d for the AVSForums


----------



## hookbill

Some local radio guy started following me on twitter. Check this out, it's fun.

http://alancoxshow.com/pages/content/2011_dick-goddard/


----------



## CLEHD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20032449
> 
> 
> Some local radio guy started following me on twitter. Check this out, it's fun.
> 
> http://alancoxshow.com/pages/content/2011_dick-goddard/



Haha. That is great! I enjoy Alan Cox's show, too.


----------



## RexEctor

I've had a WD DVR Expander (500gb) hooked to my SA8300 for about 3 years now. Worked flawlessly until a couple of months ago. I've been having pixelization problems on and off and on again to the point where even live TV is unwatchable. I've had my lines checked and cable box replaced and after some experimenting I've narrowed the problem down to the expander. When it's connected the problem exists. When I disconnect it, the problem goes away. The expander seems to have died.


I'm thinking of buying another DVR Expander or possibly building my own but I hesitate because of some of the compatibility problems I've been reading about here and other places. Can't see investing another $120+ if it isn't going to work.


Are the incompatibilities because of the 'new' Mystro? Is it temporary? Will TW fix it? I'm in the Ashtabula (old Adelphia) area.


Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## hookbill

That eSATA device should work with the SA 8300. However they do not have a long life time, you'll get 3 years if you're lucky. The Good news is there is now a two TB one which will give you all kinds of room.


As far as TW doing anything to make something work with a eSata, they really have nothing to do with it. Scientific Atlanta is the one who produces that DVR and if there is a compatibility problem you're on up the creek without a paddle.


----------



## RexEctor

Thanks hook.


I've seen 1 TB drives - not 2 TB. I'll look around. I may just go with another Western Digital drive since I had good luck with the 1st one.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RexEctor* /forum/post/20043474
> 
> 
> Thanks hook.
> 
> 
> I've seen 1 TB drives - not 2 TB. I'll look around. I may just go with another Western Digital drive since I had good luck with the 1st one.



It's not that easy to find one that is compatible with the SA 8300. My DVR Expander is the only one I know of currently. However, I'm not a know it all so things may have changed. Good luck, let us know if you find something else.


----------



## RexEctor

I bought a Western Digital My Book AV. It's 1 TB and says it works with Scientific Atlanta STBs.


Hooked it up, the system saw it and formatted it. All seems to be well now. No jitters and a couple of new recordings.


Micro Center in Mayfield has them at a good price.


----------



## pbarach

We're in Cleveland Heights. We have an SA8300HDC box and cable modem internet. For weeks, we have been getting tiling, freezing, and other digital breakups on channels 1003-1010 (these are the HD versions of the local TV stations). Other channels work fine.


So I called TWC and they arranged for a tech visit today. Yesterday, one of their tech people called me to see if I still needed the service call--I said yes. The tech on the phone told me that he could see that signals levels were extremely low at my cable box. He also asked me if I was having internet problems--I told him I was getting "the connection to the server has been reset" messages frequently (on Firefox). He said the tech would check this, too. He guessed that the problem was either the splitter (theirs) dividing the cable signal between the STB and the cable modem, or the cable amplifier (also theirs) installed where the TWC cable line comes into the house.


The tech arrived today with a little handheld device that told him my signal strength was fine--his screen showed PASS on all of the diagnostic tests. My internet throughput is 11.99 Mbps download, which he said exceeds the Roadrunner Basic rate that I'm promised. Then he said that he didn't know why customer service reps told people their signal strength was low when it measured as normal at the customer's home.


At the moment, the TV pic isn't showing any digital breakups, but the problem is unpredictable enough that I can't be sure it's gone. Anyone else have an experience like this?


----------



## hookbill

It sounds to me like they did everything correctly, and if you have just regular Roadrunner and you're get 11 MBS you're dong better then average. Of course if you check it from time to time you'll probably see less then that but still you're OK.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20052685
> 
> 
> It sounds to me like they did everything correctly, and if you have just regular Roadrunner and you're get 11 MBS you're dong better then average. Of course if you check it from time to time you'll probably see less then that but still you're OK.



The tech who came to the house rolled his eyes and said he didn't know why their customer service representatives called upcoming appointments to tell them their signal strength was weak (when it wasn't)--he speculated that maybe they were trying to make the customers feel as if they were doing something.


I just ran the same internet speed test again and got a 15 Mbps download rate.


----------



## JLennerth

I live in Ohio and had a cable guy from Time Warner come out and tell me (off the record) that if I bought a Docsis 3.0 modem (bought the Zoom Docsis 3.0 modem from Amazon.com) that I could get the Docsis 3.0 speeds that are supposed to be for people who belong to the Signature Home bundle. Anyone know if this is true? After I first got the new modem I was flying,but now I'm back to the regular turbo speeds(around 15mbps.)


----------



## its.mike

You might be able to get a bit of a higher speed until it registers onto your account, But I would highly doubt that just buying a Docsis 3.0 modem and using it would give you the wideband speed permanently.


----------



## hookbill

Yesterday a buddy of mine text me and said the Dodgers were on WGN in a Spring training game. Cool I thought and went looking for it. In the back of my mind I heard someone saying "We don't get WGN in HD" and I thought naw, that can't be right.


But it is! Boo Time Warner.


----------



## scnrfrq

Hey, count your blessings. We don't get WGN at all in Erie. We've asked but TW could care less.


----------



## CLEHD

Well folks, my time on this board will be coming to an end soon. I am going to have to re-lo for a job and get a new place. As such, I have scheduled an appointment with U-Verse. Even if things do not work out with U-Verse, my cable option is Insight. So, bye-bye to TWC.


----------



## petem23

So no trutv hd for the ncaa basketball tourney huh? That blows. TW owns trutv too, go figure. And to top it off the sd version on channel 68 looks like I'm watching a 20 year old vhs tape. Nice!


----------



## petem23

Ok that was fast. Trutv hd channel 1220 just showed up on the guide out of no where! Thanks TWC! They must have gotten bombarded with calls!


----------



## hookbill

No TiVo Guide data....I'll report it.


----------



## hookbill

I think there is one for the iPhone too, but I have an iPad so I'm going to discuss it briefly. It is what it is, if you're a TWC subscriber you can get HD channels on your iPad.


Now before we get too awful excited here I counted 31 HD channels, and all seem to be probably the most popular ones. CNN, MSNBC, VH1, MTV (but they don't play music), USA and others. Noticeably missing was ESPN. It only works on wifi and I noticed that in the bedroom farthest away from my router that it did have some huge signal drop offs.


This is a nice little gimmick. But that's all it is, a gimmick. I suppose if you took it outside in your yard it would work so maybe there is something there but I just don't see myself reaching for my iPad to watch something when I have a remote and a HDTV right there next to me.


Still, unexpected and kind of cool. More channels are being promised for the future.


Oh and I just double checked, it is not for the iPhone just the iPad. It's available in the app store if you're interested.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20163051
> 
> 
> I think there is one for the iPhone too, but I have an iPad so I'm going to discuss it briefly. It is what it is, if you're a TWC subscriber you can get HD channels on your iPad.



So if you're a TWC subscriber and you take your iPad (with the TWC app on it) to some other WiFi network, do you know if you can tune in to the TWC channels there?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/20165941
> 
> 
> So if you're a TWC subscriber and you take your iPad (with the TWC app on it) to some other WiFi network, do you know if you can tune in to the TWC channels there?



You mean like if you popped into a Starbucks with your iPad? Sure, I don't see why it wouldn't.


I know it won't work over 3G, it's wifi only.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20165987
> 
> 
> You mean like if you popped into a Starbucks with your iPad? Sure, I don't see why it wouldn't.



From what I've read it does appear to be limited to those accessing the internet from a TWC cable connection with the possibility of opening it to WiFi users on the go.


----------



## its.mike

Yet another reason to use your VPN while out using public wifi.


----------



## scnrfrq

Time Warner is offering me their phone service for $6.60/month - no contract and 30 day guarantee. I'm currently paying Verizon about $65. Those of you with this service from TW, any reason I shouldn't do it? Are you satisfied with the quality? Do they tend to raise the price pretty soon after getting it?


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/20188499
> 
> 
> Time Warner is offering me their phone service for $6.60/month - no contract and 30 day guarantee. I'm currently paying Verizon about $65. Those of you with this service from TW, any reason I shouldn't do it? Are you satisfied with the quality? Do they tend to raise the price pretty soon after getting it?



When I was up there and had their phone service, it was just as good as a regular landline. Top notch quality. Of course it also depends on how solid your cable line is. Do you have any problems with your roadrunner service? Since the phone service and roadrunner essentially use the same connection (but on different channels, roadrunner and phone service do not degrade each other. Using the phone will not reduce your speed for example). If that is all solid, the phone is going to be great.


There are a few downsides. Namely 911 service during an outage. I simply recommend just keeping a cellphone handy and always charged. Even a phone that has no account tied to it will work. As long as it gets a signal, you can still make emergency 911 calls.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/20188499
> 
> 
> Time Warner is offering me their phone service for $6.60/month - no contract and 30 day guarantee. Do they tend to raise the price pretty soon after getting it?



I would find the fine print regarding how long your promotional rate will last and what the regular rate is.


----------



## Vchat20

Indeed. Check what the prices will be after the promo period as there's NO way you are getting phone service off-promo for only $6 a month. Though FWIW, with the price you are paying Verizon now, TWC's still going to beat them in price. Unless things have changed recently, their main unlimited local+LD NorAm package is somewhere around the $40-$45/mo range off-promo.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> New HD channels "Coming in May"
> OWN(Oprah)
> Sundance
> GSN
> YES Network
> Oxygen
> The HUB
> 
> 
> Also coming "soon"
> HBO HD On Demand
> MAX HD On Demand
> 
> 
> With more HD channels coming later this year!



Got that in mailer today along with a new channel lineup card for the upcoming movement of a bunch of SD channels. They say the changes they're going to make will make room for the new HD channels but still no word about Wideband.


I may have a minor fix for they annual rate hikes. Stop mailing every customer pieces of paper. If their a RoadRunner customer they have a RR email which they already use for various items, why not these thing?


----------



## scnrfrq

Can someone tell me how to get Caller iD on TV to work with TW phone? They activated it and it shows up in Settings, but I get no display on any of my TV's


----------



## toby10

Try this for TWC Caller ID on TV:

To turn on Caller ID on TV:

1. Press "A" on your digital remote control.

2. Select "Caller ID." The display will read "Call Alert OFF."

3. Press SELECT on your remote control and "Call Alert ON" will appear with a check mark.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/20225811
> 
> 
> Try this for TWC Caller ID on TV:
> 
> To turn on Caller ID on TV:
> 
> 1. Press "A" on your digital remote control.
> 
> 2. Select "Caller ID." The display will read "Call Alert OFF."
> 
> 3. Press SELECT on your remote control and "Call Alert ON" will appear with a check mark.



It shows as on on all my TV's - but I get no display and the call list always shows 0 calls.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/20226092
> 
> 
> It shows as on on all my TV's - but I get no display and the call list always shows 0 calls.



I ended up calling them. Then it took a couple hours for it to work.


----------



## scnrfrq

MLB Extends Free Preview of Baseball Games

By Swanni


Washington, D.C. (March 30, 2011) -- Major League Baseball this season is giving fans an unprecedented 11-day free preview of its MLB Extra Innings pay package.


DIRECTV, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Cox, Bright House, Cablevision, Bresnan, Charter are among the TV providers that will offer the free preview, which runs from March 31 (Opening Day) to April 10.


If viewers purchase the full-season plan prior to April 11, the cost will be $179. After April 11, it will go up to $199. (Note: The cost might vary depending upon the TV provider.)


The package delivers up to 80 games per week with at least a few dozen in high-def. (Note: In the past, DIRECTV has offered more games in HD than the average cable operator.)


Normally, the free preview only extends through the first week of the regular season. But Opening Day this year begins on a Thursday so MLB has decided to stretch the free preview through the following week.


New this year: Some TV providers will offer both the home and visiting team's broadcasts so the viewer can choose which one to watch.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/20229412
> 
> 
> MLB Extends Free Preview of Baseball Games
> 
> By Swanni
> 
> 
> Washington, D.C. (March 30, 2011) -- Major League Baseball this season is giving fans an unprecedented 11-day free preview of its MLB Extra Innings pay package.
> 
> 
> DIRECTV, Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Cox, Bright House, Cablevision, Bresnan, Charter are among the TV providers that will offer the free preview, which runs from March 31 (Opening Day) to April 10.
> 
> 
> If viewers purchase the full-season plan prior to April 11, the cost will be $179. After April 11, it will go up to $199. (Note: The cost might vary depending upon the TV provider.)
> 
> 
> The package delivers up to 80 games per week with at least a few dozen in high-def. (Note: In the past, DIRECTV has offered more games in HD than the average cable operator.)
> 
> 
> Normally, the free preview only extends through the first week of the regular season. But Opening Day this year begins on a Thursday so MLB has decided to stretch the free preview through the following week.
> 
> 
> New this year: Some TV providers will offer both the home and visiting team's broadcasts so the viewer can choose which one to watch.



Yep, I noticed it was going on longer then usual. Can you guys see the games on your channel guide? I don't have a TW box anymore, just my TiVo's and as of this morning there were still no schedule for the games. The web site for MLB Extra Innings still didn't have a schedule either.


----------



## scnrfrq

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
Yep, I noticed it was going on longer then usual. Can you guys see the games on your channel guide? I don't have a TW box anymore, just my TiVo's and as of this morning there were still no schedule for the games. The web site for MLB Extra Innings still didn't have a schedule either.
The schedule is here;
http://www.indemand.com/sports/mlb/m...90422124838930


----------



## hookbill

Thank you kindly. I've been to their site many times and there was nothing available.


----------



## pbarach

Where is the Remote DVR app that TWC touted in their latest mailing?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/20233260
> 
> 
> Where is the Remote DVR app that TWC touted in their latest mailing?



I don't recall seeing an app. I did see that they were going to provide a way to program the DVR, but my feeling was they were suggesting you can do it through their web site.


----------



## subavision212

Haven't been around the thread for awhile so sorry if this has come up before, but recently I read that cable companies like Comcast have been trying to block clear QAM channels, so that you have to order their service in order to have all the regular channels. One person with Time Warner in Columbus said this has happened to them. Anyone heard anything like this possibly coming down the pipe?


----------



## its.mike

And as per normal, the free preview isn't enabled for the first few games. Classic TWC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/20236306
> 
> 
> And as per normal, the free preview isn't enabled for the first few games. Classic TWC.



I'm going to get that fixed. This shouldn't take long. I'm a damn paid subscriber for it, I'll shoot an email out to my friend at TW.


Here"s my response: _I am out of the office from March 28th through April 1st with limited access to email. For CTBH issues please contact Tony Manco or Blake Nelson. Have a good week!_


Timing is everything


I could probably try emailing them but they would look at it and say who the hell is they guy.


But not to worry, I battle it out with customer service.


----------



## hookbill

Well, maybe I won't have to go to war with customer service. Just got this:

_At airport now, will get to it as soon as I can._


Anyway hang tight I'll make sure it's up one way or another. Right now I'm programming a phone and adding my apps. When I get done with that I'll call TWC and see what customer service has to say.


----------



## hookbill

Well, first I got sent to some foreign country where I spoke with Juan. Interestingly enough Juan seemed to have an Asian accent.


Juan couldn't understand me so I called again and this time got through (after listening about an outage in Mentor) to Shirley. Shirley said I was breaking up.


Third time was a charm, spoke with a rep who seemed interested in at least getting to the root of the problem. The problem is there is an issue and nobody knows when it will be fixed.


Personally I think the issue is someone needs to flip a switch to pick up the satellite transmission but hey, I could be wrong.


So at least for now I'm still trying to watch the Braves game and nothing is appearing on my screen. We will see what happens as the day goes on.


----------



## its.mike

Yeah, I'm trying to watch the Reds game and all I get is the order screen. I called after I posted and talked to a guy who said that TWC wasn't getting the feed and didn't know when or if it would get fixed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/20237099
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm trying to watch the Reds game and all I get is the order screen. I called after I posted and talked to a guy who said that TWC wasn't getting the feed and didn't know when or if it would get fixed.



It's fixed now.


----------



## hookbill

And I'm getting NHL Center Ice. Anybody else?


----------



## its.mike

Seems to be working now. Still after all these years cant figure out why they don't do all this the day before instead of missing a day of action which you know we wont get credit for it.


----------



## hookbill

So you all know about the first games on MLB Extra Innings not being available. During the afternoon I sent an email, very directly explaining that I have already paid for this and I couldn't understand how they could mess up the first day.


I got a response from a representative saying she understood my concerns, blah blah, and she sympathized with me.


Then this morning I find it was escalated. Whomever it was escalated to proceeded to thank me for my interest in MLB EI and how the first couple of weeks the games would be free then after that I would have to purchaseI think you see where this is going. My concern was never addressed.


And all emails sent were tied together. What a bunch of morons.


Also yesterday I talked to someone named "Sonny" on their live chat. Sonny proceeded to tell me that I did not have it ordered. He said I cancelled on 1/25. I said well Sonny if that was true, which it isn't, then I would still get the games because they is a free preview for the first 10 days. Sonny said you don't get the preview unless you order the games.







I was so stunned by that I just said you are an expletive.


Another call to TW and the CSR confirmed the day I purchased, said in fact I've already been billed for the first payment. In reflection, I think the guy I was talking to on line simply had the wrong account up in front of him. At least I hope so.


Still doesn't explain that remark about having to purchase to get the preview.


----------



## abcmatt

 http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngNotices.html 


There seems to be a lot of changes coming. Why not move Sportstime Ohio to 26 instead of 36, so you don't have to move MSNBC & CNBC too?


----------



## its.mike

There wising up and putting all the sports channels together and all the entertainment channels together. Now if they could just get a uniform lineup throughout the footprint.


----------



## toby10

Yeah, WOW cable is going through the same "big changes" including reorganizing a lot of the ch assignments. Even then, some just don't make sense where they throw in a couple of sports ch's mixed in with news ch's. I think the person in charge of ch assignments makes these decisions after a liquid lunch.










Is TWC doing the "all digital" change as well? Where even basic cable requires a box for analog TV's? WOW is dumping all analogs, which is a good thing IMO.


----------



## hookbill

When the digital conversion occurred part of TW's selling points was that if you had basic, there was no need for additional equipment. In order to go Digital that would require everyone to have a box.


TWC is not going to give out their boxes and by keeping their basic lineup they are indicating that there will be no changes in those channels that are not already digital. In some of the original TWC area that change was implemented years ago but in the ex Adelphia/Comcast ares it was not.


Having said that digital television on cable isn't that great anyway. Matter of fact I'd wager some of the analog channels, like WGN America are better quality.


When I had Direct TV that was real digital. Every channel was crisp and clear. I can't say that about TWC.


----------



## its.mike

So did any one's lineup change today?


----------



## hookbill

I never go below the HD channels. TiVo isn't indicating any changes. That doesn't meant there wasn't, just that I'm not seeing anyth.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20262354
> 
> 
> I never go below the HD channels. TiVo isn't indicating any changes. That doesn't meant there wasn't, just that I'm not seeing anyth.



All the changes were in the 2 to 99 area of the SD lineup.

For example, Sy-fy was ch 66, but now on ch 45. Check out all the changes in the blue (your lineup simplified) guide you got in the mail. The new HD channels will come in May.


Ben Music


----------



## pbarach

Access to the new Remote DVR Manager feature is through the "My Services" weblink. I haven't used this in two years and had forgotten the password. I did manage to answer my "security questions" and was instructed to Create New Password using a set of rules. I entered at least 10 properly constructed passwords that were all rejected.


First I tried their Live Support Chat Online. I was connected to an "analyst" whose alleged name was "Deborah Waters" but who clearly did not have English as her first language. After 20 minutes of waiting for her to "research" this problem, she put "notes" on my account and gave me a phone number to call. The man on the phone unblocked my account (which had been blocked because of the bizarre rejections of those attempts to create a password). Then he told me not to try logging in for 30 minutes "for security reasons." The security procedures here are more onerous than those for investment firms, banks, or credit card companies. It shouldn't be so hard!


----------



## scnrfrq

TW made their channel changes last night. Time to rescan my TV's.


----------



## Yacdogg

Hello, I am in the Southern part of the viewing area (Dover/New Philladelphia demographic of TWC) and on the 4th of this month I started recieving TruTV HD on channel 1220, and it went off yesterday the 7th. I looked on the timewarner dot com/neowpa and it said nothing about this channel being in hd. Is it in the testing phase, and I recieved it some how, anyone else have it for a couple days also ? I would love it in HD, i watch it some. just wondering if anyone else noticed this. btw I have the samsung hd dvr box.


PS Love the site, been viewing it for a couple years, but just joined.


----------



## kevin120

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Yacdogg* 
Hello, I am in the Southern part of the viewing area (Dover/New Philladelphia demographic of TWC) and on the 4th of this month I started recieving TruTV HD on channel 1220, and it went off yesterday the 7th. I looked on the timewarner dot com/neowpa and it said nothing about this channel being in hd. Is it in the testing phase, and I recieved it some how, anyone else have it for a couple days also ? I would love it in HD, i watch it some. just wondering if anyone else noticed this. btw I have the samsung hd dvr box.


PS Love the site, been viewing it for a couple years, but just joined.
It was available during march madness and was removed afterwards some TWC systems added TruTV HD permanently right before the tourney.


----------



## JJkizak

Read in the paper this morning that the TWC CEO got a ginormous raise---millions.

JJK


----------



## shooter21198

On or after April 10, 2011, History & Nature on Demand will be known as Nature & Knowledge on Demand. Movies on Demand will be available to digital customers on position 1000 and Music Choice on Demand (to include content from Music Choice Urban & Latin on Demand) will be available on position 437.

The following channels will be available to digital customers: OWN HD, YES HD, GSN HD, The Hub HD, Oxygen HD, HBO HD On Demand and Cinemax HD On Demand.

On or after May 9 content from FEARnet will be available on Movie Pass On Demand.

* Changes will vary by service area. Not all services available in all areas. Carriage level varies by area.


----------



## Inundated

For whatever reason, my problematic local QAMs cleared up on the set downstairs.


The problems were on stations on QAM RF channel 75 and 78, which included: WOIO (both HD and "WeatherNow"), WVIZ and its subchannels, WEAO's subchannels (TWC in this area does not carry WEAO HD, but does carry the subchannels), and WVPX HD.


All of the above are now working again, when they were breaking up and unviewable picture-wise before. All the other local QAM channels (HD and subs) have been fine, and are still fine (WKYC/WEWS/WUAB/WJW/etc. and all their subs, including WKYC's weather radar, WUAB's This TV and WJW's Antenna TV).


Since it cleared up all on its own, maybe there was a signal strength issue that was corrected here in this development. Or maybe they moved and compressed less, though I didn't have to rescan anything.


----------



## AkronTom

Since the channel realignment, 2 TV's with out a digital box display "no signal" on 72 (Travel), 73 (Oxygen), 74 (TruTV),75 (Speed) and 82. The new guide TW sent out shows these channels in the Standard tier. Channels 70 and below and great. The TV with the digital box will get them all.


I'm in the Copley area near Bath. Aren't we supposed to be getting these channels?


----------



## AkronTom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AkronTom* /forum/post/20285556
> 
> 
> Since the channel realignment, 2 TV's with out a digital box display "no signal" on 72 (Travel), 73 (Oxygen), 74 (TruTV),75 (Speed) and 82. The new guide TW sent out shows these channels in the Standard tier. Channels 70 and below and great. The TV with the digital box will get them all.
> 
> 
> I'm in the Copley area near Bath. Aren't we supposed to be getting these channels?



I was informed these channels no longer are offered in analog. I understand the need to reduce analog bandwidth but how long will it be before TW whittles the analog selection a little more till we are forced to rent the box.


----------



## awyeah

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AkronTom*
I understand the need to reduce analog bandwidth but how long will it be before TW whittles the analog selection a little more till we are forced to rent the box.
I have seen other cable providers offer smaller boxes with fewer features. They basically do nothing except have a channel up and down button and outputs... No guide or menu or anything.


I wonder if they will start using these and including them in the cost of service. Or maybe they will the cost of service and then give them out for "free."


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AkronTom* /forum/post/20289445
> 
> 
> I was informed these channels no longer are offered in analog. I understand the need to reduce analog bandwidth but how long will it be before TW whittles the analog selection a little more till we are forced to rent the box.



The sooner the better.









That is already happening on many cable systems including WOW locally.

Their service is going all digital so any/all analog TV's now require a converter box at $1 per month.


----------



## AkronTom

I'd pay $1 but TW wants 8.95 plus tax.


----------



## hookbill

Yesterday all my MLB Extra Innings channels disappeared. As the night went on other channels began to disappear to with the "temporarily not available, please press enter" message.


TW sent me to Cable Cards and they said that I needed a service call. I got one for this afternoon at 5:00 pm. I've sent like 4 emails to my person in TW but I haven't heard back. Maybe there are lots of problems right now.


Idiot rep I talked to last night suggested that the reason I may not be getting them is that it's the same as Pay per view. It isn't, not at all.


I'm ready to toss in the towel and call Direct TV out to see if any new satellites are up where I can get a line of site. I heard they may be one in the east now.


----------



## hookbill

My TWC person got backed to me. You know if I didn't have her I would forever be fighting with TW.


Apparently there is an issue with MLB Extra Innings. I was told it's system wide but I'm not certain if that means all DVR's or just TiVo's. She mentioned it possibly being a mapping issue.


So I heard from another person I use to talk to at TW but haven't heard from in a few years and she tells me that they looked at the test television, and yes indeed there is a problem! Since she said test television I'm assuming that's the one hooked up with a TiVo. So once again I've paid money for a product that I'm not getting.


When I was transferred to Cable Card Support last night the guy I spoke with told me that according to what he saw I cancelled MLB Extra Innings on January 25th. Eventually he saw where I had ordered it on 3/13 but wow, 50 minutes on the phone.


My service call has been cancelled. So I have to wait on TWC techs now.


----------



## hookbill

I got this message regarding the MLB ExtraInnings debacle about 2 hours ago:

_We have identified an issue in our back-end systems and we're working on it. *Unfortunately I don't have an ETA for resolution yet. *I will keep you posted._


Discovered an issue in their back-end system. This kind of cracks me up. Usually it's the head end, now the back-end.


I realize you guys probably could care less about this but since I have to suffer you have to suffer with me.


----------



## tjs70

Docsis 3 was turned on yesterday in the Cleveland market. It is really fast. 50 down 5 up. Also when you do a speed test it is usually always at least 50 down 5 up. It is great. Most non signature home customers will need a new modem that is DOCSIS 3 compatible to receive the full speed.


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *tjs70* 
Docsis 3 was turned on yesterday in the Cleveland market. It is really fast. 50 down 5 up. Also when you do a speed test it is usually always at least 50 down 5 up. It is great. Most non signature home customers will need a new modem that is DOCSIS 3 compatible to receive the full speed.
And that probably means an additional charge? I'll take what I have and live with it if that's the case.


----------



## tjs70

On or after Aprl 15, the following channels will be available to digital customers: OWN HD, YES HD, GSN HD, The Hub HD, Oxygen HD, HBO HD On Demand and Lifetime HD.


----------



## tjs70

The nice part about DOCSIS 3 is that it reduces congestion on the nodes dramatically. So even if you do not upgrade to 50/5 or 30/5 you should see improved performance particularly if you have your modem upgraded to their latest models as D3 involved replacing the entire CMTS with modern equipment.


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/20308069
> 
> 
> On or after Aprl 15, the following channels will be available to digital customers: OWN HD, YES HD, GSN HD, The Hub HD, Oxygen HD, HBO HD On Demand and Lifetime HD.



Could you please list the Ch numbers? Thank you.


Ben Music


----------



## tjs70

OWN HD - 1152

Yes HD - 1341

GSN HD-1281

Hub HD -1111

Oxygen HD - 1215

HBO HDOD -1600

Lifetime HD - Doesn't seem to be on yet but should be 1211


----------



## hookbill

Ben, did you sent it to TiVo? If not I will.


Edit, never mind I had a bookmark for it so I just went ahead and sent it.


----------



## hookbill

You know I take a lot of shots at TWC and all cable companies, I've never met one I've liked. And i suppose I'm lucky enough to have discovered someone in the company that's willing to help me out with my TiVo issues, but I really take my hat off for what TWC did for me.


I'm the only person with a TiVo subscribed to MLB Extra Innings from what they tell me. They fixed the issue by doing a manual override.


I was thinking that it just wasn't going to get resolved, why change everything for 1 customer. Well they didn't change everything but they did get it working so I give them kudos for service.


Now I wonder how they will respond to my email requesting compensation for my two day loss of service? Hey, I didn't mention it they did.


----------



## GregF2

Is it live all over the Cleveland market, like in Amherst, OH too. How much more is that than Roadrunner Turbo? I get about 20 to 25 down, but only .75 on that?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/20308059
> 
> 
> Docsis 3 was turned on yesterday in the Cleveland market. It is really fast. 50 down 5 up. Also when you do a speed test it is usually always at least 50 down 5 up. It is great. Most non signature home customers will need a new modem that is DOCSIS 3 compatible to receive the full speed.


----------



## clevemkt

I have a question about my SA 4250HDC STB. I occasionally burn a DVD of the networks shows to time-shift my viewing. I set the box to the channel I want to record. Set the DVD burner timer. Once in a while, the TWC STB shuts off and has a black screen with TWC logo and clock. Is there anyway to set the box to stay enabled?


----------



## Too_Many_options

You can bypass the TWC box, by using a splitter and the tuner for you burner, If it has a tuner.. can't record HBO's etc. ...But you can with most other stations


----------



## awyeah

DOCSIS 3, eh? Any word on pricing?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/20322812
> 
> 
> DOCSIS 3, eh? Any word on pricing?



877.772.2253. Let us know.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Just signed up for time warner. They sent me a 8300hdc hd dvr.


Every hd channel I have tried so far is 2 channel PCM. Are they passing through 5.1 channels? I have it hooked up via hdmi to my onkyo 1007 receiver. Audio is set to digital. Do I have something setup wrong or am I only supposed to be getting stereo?


Edit: never mind, it's a setup issue with my receiver


----------



## hookbill

Almost all the HD channels, at least the one's I watch are Dolby 5.1. If they broadcast in Dolby 5.1 it's supposed to be passed on.


I say supposed to be because I know for a fact that MLBnet is in Dolby 5.1, I spoke to an engineer over there and even my person that I know at TWC admits it. But they have a problem dialing it in.


----------



## Inundated

That abandonment of analog TWC channels over 70 may have solved the problem I had above.


The problem QAM channels were 75 and 78, which carry things like the HD feed and subchannels for WOIO, WVIZ and WVPX.


My current theory is that there was analog "bleeding" from channels like 76 (former STO position), and when that went away, the QAM feeds for all three channels became perfect.


And RF QAM channels that weren't in the 70s were always fine.


----------



## awyeah

I called Time Warner about the "Wideband" (read: DOCSIS 3.0) tiers.


I was told: 30/5 for $10 more than RR turbo, and 50/5 for $99.99. The 50/5 also comes with some sort of wireless service. I'm not sure if it's mobile broadband or some sort of WiFi router... didn't ask.


The 30/5 doesn't seem like a bad deal.


----------



## its.mike

Its a wireless router. They have their "own" mobile service they try and sell aswell.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/20311330
> 
> 
> Is it live all over the Cleveland market, like in Amherst, OH too. How much more is that than Roadrunner Turbo? I get about 20 to 25 down, but only .75 on that?



I get the same as you during the day, but in the late afternoon and evening it drops to less than half, some times worst.

I been complaining for the month that I've had RR Turbo and I finally got to talk to a 3rd tier tech. He checked and told me that they were over saturated at their distribution node and he would put an order in to fix it.

About the DOCSIS, I was told that they would have to wire the area before we could get it.


----------



## GregF2

I have also noticed the afternoon and evening slowdown over the last year since I starting RR Turbo. Frustrating and also heard the same response as you. However, in the last week, the speeds have not slowed down, so it is either a fluke or maybe they fixed the issue?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Goldenager62* /forum/post/20336266
> 
> 
> I get the same as you during the day, but in the late afternoon and evening it drops to less than half, some times worst.
> 
> I been complaining for the month that I've had RR Turbo and I finally got to talk to a 3rd tier tech. He checked and told me that they were over saturated at their distribution node and he would put an order in to fix it.
> 
> About the DOCSIS, I was told that they would have to wire the area before we could get it.


----------



## hookbill

I'm getting lock ups on the SDV channels today. yesterday on MLB Extra Innings horrible pixelation. Almost unwatchable.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/20337177
> 
> 
> I have also noticed the afternoon and evening slowdown over the last year since I starting RR Turbo. Frustrating and also heard the same response as you. However, in the last week, the speeds have not slowed down, so it is either a fluke or maybe they fixed the issue?



I'm still having problems. In fact my speed dropped 50% at 3:30 pm.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20337204
> 
> 
> I'm getting lock ups on the SDV channels today. yesterday on MLB Extra Innings horrible pixelation. Almost unwatchable.



No problems here, but my box did reboot on it's own today.


----------



## subavision212

Was watching PTI on ESPN today and noticed that the sound was slightly out of synch. Anyone else notice this and would this be a TW problem or ESPN? Just curious.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20361193
> 
> 
> Was watching PTI on ESPN today and noticed that the sound was slightly out of synch. Anyone else notice this and would this be a TW problem or ESPN? Just curious.



Could be either. You may want to call TW and make them aware of it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/20362238
> 
> 
> Could be either. You may want to call TW and make them aware of it.



Unless it's an on going issue I wouldn't waste my time calling them. They will say, "OK, thanks for letting us know," and do nothing. Or they may set up a truly ridiculous service call to your homel.


If it's happening on a consistant basis an you're using the SA8300 DVR then that might be the issue. Just too hard to say. Like I said if it's a one time thing then let it go.


----------



## TYTONK

The sound on ESPN has beed distorted ever since they moved the channel locations. It sounds like ESPN is being fed in too loud, so it is distorted by time it gets to us. There are 1 or 2 other channels that are like this ever since the channel move.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TYTONK* /forum/post/20363542
> 
> 
> The sound on ESPN has beed distorted ever since they moved the channel locations. It sounds like ESPN is being fed in too loud, so it is distorted by time it gets to us. There are 1 or 2 other channels that are like this ever since the channel move.



I have surround sound and if anything ESPN sounds better now. I'll bet you weren't aware that last year they weren't even sending ESPN out in Dolby 5.1 but ESPN 2 was. I managed to get some attention to that and now ESPN, and TBS are back on Dolby 5.1.


The one I'm having an issue with MLBnet, and I know they are aware that they broadcast in Dolby 5.1 but they don't deliver that to us. Oddly enough they do send out a signal that is slightly different then Dolby 2.0 but not 5.1 like it should be.


----------



## Goldenager62




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/20308645
> 
> 
> OWN HD - 1152
> 
> Yes HD - 1341
> 
> GSN HD-1281
> 
> Hub HD -1111
> 
> Oxygen HD - 1215
> 
> HBO HDOD -1600
> 
> Lifetime HD - Doesn't seem to be on yet but should be 1211



Is anybody receiving Lifetime HD?


----------



## subavision212

Sorry if this is stupid question but I figured I'd ask the "pros from dover" on this thread before getting my blood pressure raised by talking to TW. I just bought a new HD display for my living room and wanted to see about adding the HD box to it (I just have basic cable, no box upstairs). I already have digital cable and an HD box in my HT downstairs so my question is do I just need to pay for a new HD box and whatever else they charge (service visit, digital upgrade etc. I can never figure out that little services brochure they give us) or do I have to have the digital tier added also. I was hoping to just have to pay another $10 or so a month. thanks.


----------



## hookbill

You'll need to pay for an additional box. That's all. Probably $3.00 a month I would guess.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20381345
> 
> 
> You'll need to pay for an additional box. That's all. Probably $3.00 a month I would guess.



thank you very much.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjs70* /forum/post/20308645
> 
> 
> GSN HD-1281
> 
> Lifetime HD - Doesn't seem to be on yet but should be 1211



Lifetime HD is not yet on in suburban Cleveland (at least here in Solon). Also, GSN HD has been moved to its logical position of channel 1219 (1000 plus SD digital channel 219) instead of channel 1281 from earlier (SD digital channel 281 is the Sundance Channel).


----------



## cleveman

Hello all -

We live in the Macedonia head-end area and have had a 8300HD DVR for about 5-6 years. It seems to be on it's last legs (won't recognize my external hard drive any more, even after several reboots and hard resets) and even with the external drive unplugged it was occasionally "jittery" all weekend with pixelation and such.


Since it looks like I'll be calling TW and asking for a replacement DVR I thought I'd tap the wisdom of the community and see what other DVR's TW has in the field and which I should be asking for.


I see a lot of people still have the 8300's - but what other DVR's are out there and any pro's / con's to each? We've gotten pretty attached to the extra space afforded by the external hard drive, so I want to make sure whatever I get supports that. Beyond that, I just want it to work!


Thanks in advance for any comments / advice!


----------



## hookbill

They have a Samsung, and another version of the 8300, but to be honest unless they have excessive stock they usually won't allow you to pick the DVR. You may end up with another SA 8300.


But it doesn't hurt to ask, all they can say is no.


----------



## TheAngryPenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cleveman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello all -
> 
> We live in the Macedonia head-end area and have had a 8300HD DVR for about 5-6 years. It seems to be on it's last legs (won't recognize my external hard drive any more, even after several reboots and hard resets) and even with the external drive unplugged it was occasionally "jittery" all weekend with pixelation and such.
> 
> 
> Since it looks like I'll be calling TW and asking for a replacement DVR I thought I'd tap the wisdom of the community and see what other DVR's TW has in the field and which I should be asking for.
> 
> 
> I see a lot of people still have the 8300's - but what other DVR's are out there and any pro's / con's to each? We've gotten pretty attached to the extra space afforded by the external hard drive, so I want to make sure whatever I get supports that. Beyond that, I just want it to work!
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any comments / advice!



It was a pain in the ass, but with enough griping and a few trips to various walk-in centers, I finally got to take home a Cisco 8640HDC. In my experience, it's much more stable than the four 8300's that preceded it. Not sure about using an xHD with it, but there's another forum here dedicated to it, so you might want to check it out.


----------



## subavision212

Well, it cost me 7.99 for the extra HD box but it certainly is worth it with the new display. Nice to be able to be able to sit in the living room and watch and not have to go downstairs to the HT and turn everything else on to just watch TV.


----------



## Too_Many_options

 http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/money/co...st-ohio-cities 



CLEVELAND - Time Warner Cable confirmed an intermittent interruption in its digital service, causing thousands of consumers in several Northeast Ohio communities to lose high definition and standard television service.


Consumers have contacted the 5 On Your Side Troubleshooter unit to report their television picture is "freezing" and is unwatchable.


NewsChannel5 contacted Time Warner Cable headquarters in the search for answers. The cable company reported an interruption in service in the following communities: Mentor, Strongsville, Eyria, Maple Heights, Cleveland, Lorain, Port Clinton, Mablehead, Geneva, Chardon, Vermilion, North Olmsted, Concord and surrounding cities.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/20388225
> 
> http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/money/co...st-ohio-cities
> 
> 
> 
> CLEVELAND - Time Warner Cable confirmed an intermittent interruption in its digital service, causing thousands of consumers in several Northeast Ohio communities to lose high definition and standard television service.
> 
> 
> Consumers have contacted the 5 On Your Side Troubleshooter unit to report their television picture is "freezing" and is unwatchable.
> 
> 
> NewsChannel5 contacted Time Warner Cable headquarters in the search for answers. The cable company reported an interruption in service in the following communities: Mentor, Strongsville, Eyria, Maple Heights, Cleveland, Lorain, Port Clinton, Mablehead, Geneva, Chardon, Vermilion, North Olmsted, Concord and surrounding cities.



So could this be the reason some channels are not being displayed. I was watching both soccer channels last night (1318 and 1339) but today it's saying I have to call and order if I want this channel. Just started watching more HD on my new display upstairs so not sure if these are supposed to be channels we get for free or do have to order. They are listed in the channel guide with no mention of paying.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20389352
> 
> 
> So could this be the reason some channels are not being displayed. I was watching both soccer channels last night (1318 and 1339) but today it's saying I have to call and order if I want this channel. Just started watching more HD on my new display upstairs so not sure if these are supposed to be channels we get for free or do have to order. They are listed in the channel guide with no mention of paying.



I just saw the story on Channel 5. Freeze up's, pixelation, etc in the areas mentioned but also in my area as well (Bainbridge/Aurora). They do not know what the problem is but have all the engineers working on it. Spokesperson said they think it's just a "glitch" in the system. You think?


Anyway they are also offering refunds but they did not specify an amount.


----------



## oachalon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20389432
> 
> 
> I just saw the story on Channel 5. Freeze up's, pixelation, etc in the areas mentioned but also in my area as well (Bainbridge/Aurora). They do not know what the problem is but have all the engineers working on it. Spokesperson said they think it's just a "glitch" in the system. You think?
> 
> 
> Anyway they are also offering refunds but they did not specify an amount.



Mine has been messing up for 2 days now. Im in Mentor.


----------



## GregF2

Same here in Amherst - it is even screwing up DVR recordings.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oachalon* /forum/post/20389961
> 
> 
> Mine has been messing up for 2 days now. Im in Mentor.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2* /forum/post/20390143
> 
> 
> Same here in Amherst - it is even screwing up DVR recordings.



You mean recordings from weeks ago or recordings of bad transmissions?


----------



## GregF2

Recordings of bad transmissions. Stopped the recording mid way through. Guess it makes sense if the picture keeps freezing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/20391567
> 
> 
> You mean recordings from weeks ago or recordings of bad transmissions?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Trouble in Avon too, I just switched to time warner as well...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20389432
> 
> 
> I just saw the story on Channel 5. Freeze up's, pixelation, etc in the areas mentioned but also in my area as well (Bainbridge/Aurora). They do not know what the problem is but have all the engineers working on it. Spokesperson said they think it's just a "glitch" in the system. You think?



It's been fixed.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/20393044
> 
> 
> It's been fixed.



Well, I thought you fell off the face of the earth. For those of you who may be new and don't know Cathode Kid knows more about what's going on with Time Warner then anybody else does. He won't admit it but I think he's employed there or at least extremely close to someone employed there. Technically he knows way more then your average person.


Now tell me why they can't fix MLBnet HD and bring it in 5.1?


----------



## GregF2

I think there still might be some problems in the Amherst area. Some pixelation and freezing is taking place. Getting to be really annoying!!!!


----------



## Too_Many_options

My area as well, I really don't think anything was fixed (just not as bad)


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* /forum/post/20396013
> 
> 
> My area as well, I really don't think anything was fixed (just not as bad)




I know sooner read what Cathode Kid said and walked out to my living room where i had MLB EXtra on, just in time to watch the picture freeze.










Hey here's another little wonderful thing I discovered about Time Warner. There is an app put out by HBO that works on your iPhone, iPad, and Android phone. It will show you on HBO Shows, Movies, trailers. All kinds of good stuff and it is free.


So I downloaded it last night to check it out. A registration screen pops up. Who's your provider?, it said and it had Cox, ComCrap, AT&T and several others, but no Crime Warner. So since no agreement was made by TW then the app will not work for us.


I guess their way of making it up to us is to give us their own app full of crummy analog channels.


Once again, ripped off.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I know sooner read what Cathode Kid said and walked out to my living room where i had MLB EXtra on, just in time to watch the picture freeze.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey here's another little wonderful thing I discovered about Time Warner. There is an app put out by HBO that works on your iPhone, iPad, and Android phone. It will show you on HBO Shows, Movies, trailers. All kinds of good stuff and it is free.
> 
> 
> So I downloaded it last night to check it out. A registration screen pops up. Who's your provider?, it said and it had Cox, ComCrap, AT&T and several others, but no Crime Warner. So since no agreement was made by TW then the app will not work for us.
> 
> 
> I guess their way of making it up to us is to give us their own app full of crummy analog channels.
> 
> 
> Once again, ripped off.



Crummy analog channels? They have like 40 channels available now. Picture quality is excellent and most things are widescreen so its not the analog channel feed. Also, it's not like the the ipads 1024x768 screen could handle 1080i anyway.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/20396470
> 
> 
> Crummy analog channels? They have like 40 channels available now. Picture quality is excellent and most things are widescreen so its not the analog channel feed. Also, it's not like the the ipads 1024x768 screen could handle 1080i anyway.



Well, they had like 18 last time I saw. OK, I'll give it another look.


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options* 
My area as well, I really don't think anything was fixed (just not as bad)
I was having sound drop offs and freezes on WNEW news at 6. Now MLB Extra Innings having some issues as well too.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I was having sound drop offs and freezes on. WNEW news at 6. Now MLB Extra Innings having some issues as well too.



Well, no wonder. You're trying to watch a NYC TV station in Ohio!










As far as the freezes go, we were spared this time (Bath/Copley ex-Adelphia). We had the same problem a month or so back, tho, even on my analog only set.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/20406419
> 
> 
> Well, no wonder. You're trying to watch a NYC TV station in Ohio!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the freezes go, we were spared this time (Bath/Copley ex-Adelphia). We had the same problem a month or so back, tho, even on my analog only set.



WEWS......Channel 5, or 5.1 or whatever....lol....WNEW would be a change.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> WEWS......Channel 5, or 5.1 or whatever....lol....WNEW would be a change.



And WNEW isn't even WNEW anymore, it's WNYW "Fox 5", Fox's O&O in NYC...


----------



## cleveman

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
They have a Samsung, and another version of the 8300, but to be honest unless they have excessive stock they usually won't allow you to pick the DVR. You may end up with another SA 8300.


But it doesn't hurt to ask, all they can say is no.
Thanks for the response, hook.


I actually went into the service center in Garfield and the guy behind the desk said they only had 8300's in stock to replace my ailing 8300. But he made a few phone calls and found that the service center on Lakeside had some Cisco 8460's. So I ran over there and got one of those. I ended up replacing the internal 320gb drive with a 1TB drive with no issues and we've been up and running since Thursday with no issues at all. Now I just have to remember to put the old hard-drive back in before returning this DVR (hopefully several years down the line!).


----------



## its.mike

Any one hear of Start Over bleeding through into the Open QAM channels?


I ask because I rescanned my channel lists for my tuner card and it picked up a new channel (83.25332). The channel has Starz playing now but its about a half hour behind the "live" broadcast.

 Its in full 1080 aswell.


----------



## Digital Iggy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cleveman* /forum/post/20412385
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response, hook.
> 
> 
> I actually went into the service center in Garfield and the guy behind the desk said they only had 8300's in stock to replace my ailing 8300. But he made a few phone calls and found that the service center on Lakeside had some Cisco 8460's. So I ran over there and got one of those. I ended up replacing the internal 320gb drive with a 1TB drive with no issues and we've been up and running since Thursday with no issues at all. Now I just have to remember to put the old hard-drive back in before returning this DVR (hopefully several years down the line!).



Do you like your new Cisco 8460? Could you please tell me the pros and cons of this dvr?? Is it much better than the 8300 you had when it was working good??? Sorry for all the questions...


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Digital Iggy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Do you like your new Cisco 8460? Could you please tell me the pros and cons of this dvr?? Is it much better than the 8300 you had when it was working good??? Sorry for all the questions...



All of a sudden I lost audio on my 8300. I still have it on my non dvr box so its not time warners fault. No audio from dvr recordings or live tv.


Did a reboot of the box and it came back. Ugh. I hope this isn't a regular occurrence


----------



## hookbill

I can remember years ago the audio going out on the SA 8300. I think the way i tretriedved it didn't require a reboot, simply backed it up a bit and the sound would be there.


You know one of the advantages of having a TW DVR is if it breaks they will replace it, no charge. Just drive it over to your local TW office and get get another. Sure, you'll lose everything you recorded unless you take the time to transfer to VHF (does anyone use those?) or DVD recorder. But hey what do you want for 7 bucks a month?


----------



## JJkizak

The channel 5 problem is happening OTA also, at least for me during the Pirates movie last night.

JJK


----------



## MichaelJay

I'm moving to a new location and U-verse is not available. And I know a lot of posters here have had satellite experience. I haven't been a TW customer for years due to their lousy picture and technical service.


So, I have to ask...has TW improved at all in the last few years to justify trying them again? I had a ton of problems when they were converting to SDV in 2009.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MichaelJay* /forum/post/20444173
> 
> 
> I'm moving to a new location and U-verse is not available. And I know a lot of posters here have had satellite experience. I haven't been a TW customer for years due to their lousy picture and technical service.
> 
> 
> So, I have to ask...has TW improved at all in the last few years to justify trying them again? I had a ton of problems when they were converting to SDV in 2009.



Ive had DirecTV, Dish Network, and now Time Warner.


I hated dish network. Indians games were often shown in SD, PQ was weak, and the DVR sucked.


DirecTV had great PQ, had full time STO, has a great list of HD channels, and has a good but sluggish DVR.


Time Warner has a DVR that is finicky but generally operates ok, has a great list of HD channels, has full time STO, and the picture quality is a little bit better than dish network.


the big thing though was the price. you can do pretty well with time warner for pricing in comparison if you mention the other offers that you can get with other companies.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/20445996
> 
> 
> Ive had DirecTV, Dish Network, and now Time Warner.
> 
> 
> I hated dish network. Indians games were often shown in SD, PQ was weak, and the DVR sucked.
> 
> 
> DirecTV had great PQ, had full time STO, has a great list of HD channels, and has a good but sluggish DVR.
> 
> 
> Time Warner has a DVR that is finicky but generally operates ok, has a great list of HD channels, has full time STO, and the picture quality is a little bit better than dish network.
> 
> 
> the big thing though was the price. you can do pretty well with time warner for pricing in comparison if you mention the other offers that you can get with other companies.



I don't think the the SA 8300 is even in the same league as Direct TV's DVR. Now the one they are offering with their signature service may be but not the SA 8300. It's a joke, the biggest piece of crap on the market.


I doubt Dish has a DVR that doesn't out perform it either.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the the SA 8300 is even in the same league as Direct TV's DVR. Now the one they are offering with their signature service may be but not the SA 8300. It's a joke, the biggest piece of crap on the market.
> 
> 
> I doubt Dish has a DVR that doesn't out perform it either.



I only said the 8300 was ok.


The directv dvr was great, other than the fact that it too 3-4 seconds to react after pressing a button on the remote


----------



## subavision212

Sorry if I haven't been paying attention enough but did something happen with TW and the QAM channels? On both by lcd tvs with just cable running into them all those channels (3.1, 5.1, 19.1 etc.) have disappeared. Tried re-scanning but that didn't help. I could have sworn they were working yesterday. Pretty strange.


----------



## Inundated

Which TWC area are you in?


Here in ex-Adelphia land (Bath/Copley/Richfield) I still have all the locals on QAM in the right places...


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/20454597
> 
> 
> Which TWC area are you in?
> 
> 
> Here in ex-Adelphia land (Bath/Copley/Richfield) I still have all the locals on QAM in the right places...



I am in West Akron. Have tried re-scanning but still nothing. Even when I go into to manual program the channels, none of the qam stations are showing up in the line up menu.


----------



## subavision212

Well, it will have to go down in history as the Great QAM channel mystery since after coming home from work last night and re-scanning, they all were back. Boy, I love technology, sheesh!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20459695
> 
> 
> Well, it will have to go down in history as the Great QAM channel mystery since after coming home from work last night and re-scanning, they all were back. Boy, I love technology, sheesh!



TW doesn't like people who use QAM you know. So they play with your head every once in a while .


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20460497
> 
> 
> TW doesn't like people who use QAM you know. So they play with your head every once in a while .



Well, they were certainly in there for a bit. You'd think they'd be happy that I just added another HD box.


----------



## Ben Music

Just wondered? I had a note on my calender for May 11 that Fearnet was coming to TWC. Did that ever happen?


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/20486055
> 
> 
> Just wondered? I had a note on my calender for May 11 that fearnet was coming to TWC. Did that ever happen?
> 
> 
> Ben Music



lol, I would guess that if you don't see it on the guide, it didn't happen. Check TW's on line guide.


----------



## its.mike

I thought it was getting added to on of the On Demand channels?


----------



## Cathode Kid

If you live in the NEO footprint and you're receiving the OTAs via clear-qam, you might want to re-scan your TV set tomorrow morning to pick them up on their new frequency. Northerners excepted.


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* 
If you live in the NEO footprint and you're receiving the OTAs via clear-qam, you might want to re-scan your TV set tomorrow morning to pick them up on their new frequency. Northerners excepted.
Well, I didn't think this had anything to do with me. But somehow I lost my MLB Extra Innings package again. And one of my Tuner Adapters bricked although I doubt that was related.


Since SDV has been introduced it has caused me, as a TiVo owner, so many problems that I'm thinking about giving up the TiVo, just get a couple of digital boxes (not DVR) and go with on demand if I miss something or want to watch anything. It's just not worth the head ache.


I'd actually like to jump ship to D* but there is no guarantee I will have a line of site (I've tried twice), and I don't want to shell out all that money for their DVR's. It's just too much aggravation.


I'm going to see if I can review my options. Talk to my wife, she what she thinks.


I don't blame Time Warner. I sort of blame TiVo for using the cable cards in the first place. I have lifetime service on both of my TiVo's so that's another reason I don't want to let them go.


I don't know. I'll be thinking about it.


----------



## Wanderlusterer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awyeah* /forum/post/20334134
> 
> 
> I called Time Warner about the "Wideband" (read: DOCSIS 3.0) tiers.
> 
> 
> I was told: 30/5 for $10 more than RR turbo, and 50/5 for $99.99. The 50/5 also comes with some sort of wireless service. I'm not sure if it's mobile broadband or some sort of WiFi router... didn't ask.
> 
> 
> The 30/5 doesn't seem like a bad deal.



I just wanted to say thanks for posting this!










Somehow, I got around to thinking that I needed to have my own cable modem, instead of Time Warners. So, I searched for cable modems on Google and came across the Motorola Surfboard line. Then I went down this rabbit hole after wanting to know what the hell DOCSIS 3.0 was and after learning about that and punching in docsis 3.0 time warner cleveland, got here. This was all just last night. So after reading this post, I called TWC (which transferred me to a service center somewhere in the recesses of Asia) and asked them about it. They told me it was available here (Ravenna) and I probably was the second person in the city to have it installed!







The truck came this afternoon with the Motorola Surfboard SBG6580 and it's running like a champ! 27 down, 6 up! No cap on bandwidth and just like you said, an additional $10 more per month with n/c on the modem! Total per month for me $49.90.


So, THANKS AGAIN!


----------



## Cathode Kid

DOCSIS 3 is some cool tech. It allows the operator to break the 6mhz barrier and bond several RF channels together to act as a single large channel. Congrats on taking the leap.


----------



## Wanderlusterer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/20526395
> 
> 
> DOCSIS 3 is some cool tech. It allows the operator to break the 6mhz barrier and bond several RF channels together to act as a single large channel. Congrats on taking the leap.



You just talked over my head, seriously. I'd like to know more. Can you elaborate? Thanks!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wanderlusterer* /forum/post/20530429
> 
> 
> You just talked over my head, seriously. I'd like to know more. Can you elaborate? Thanks!



Sorry about that. Traditionally a cable modem uses two 6 megahertz wide TV channel slots - one for downstream data and one for upstream. With the DOCSIS 3 standard, compliant modems can now use multiple 6mhz slots at the same time (even non contiguous frequencies) and bond them together to behave like one really wide channel. This enables data rates far faster than a single 6mhz slot allows. It's like the difference between a single lane and four lanes of traffic on the freeway, and it's called channel bonding. DOCSIS 3 is backwards compatible with older modems but you don't get the advantage of channel bonding on older modems because they need to have multiple tuners built inside to pull this off.


----------



## hookbill

Cathode Kid how can I go about getting a refund for missing 5 days of MLB Extra Innings. My contact help me fix my issue but she's totally ignored my request for refund.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20530850
> 
> 
> Cathode Kid how can I go about getting a refund for missing 5 days of MLB Extra Innings. My contact help me fix my issue but she's totally ignored my request for refund.



This fix happened late on Friday. Give them a chance to get in the office on Monday. Patience, grasshopper.


----------



## subavision212

So I tried searching (in numerous threads) for an answer but couldn't find any reference so I hope this hasn't been asked and answered already. What is the deal with ESPN's channels and their broadcast picture? All of them have at least one inch of space at the bottom of all my displays that is just empty all the time. I know they recently switched to a 16:9 HD signal but all the other stations utilize the full screen. It's not an H1 or H2 problem on my displays. No matter which one I use it's still there, albeit smaller with H1. To actually get rid of it I have to go to the zoom selection on my format menu. One time I did notice below that bar was a slim slice of the actual broadcast so THEY must be adding this space. Other stations like HD soccer will have a similar bar pop up for scores and updates but it eventually goes away and the broadcast fills the screen. It just drives me nutty to invest in a good quality display and have a station waste space. It really sucks on my 65" plasma in my HT. Anyone have any insight. thanks much.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20534649
> 
> 
> So I tried searching (in numerous threads) for an answer but couldn't find any reference so I hope this hasn't been asked and answered already. What is the deal with ESPN's channels and their broadcast picture? All of them have at least one inch of space at the bottom of all my displays that is just empty all the time. I know they recently switched to a 16:9 HD signal but all the other stations utilize the full screen. It's not an H1 or H2 problem on my displays. No matter which one I use it's still there, albeit smaller with H1. To actually get rid of it I have to go to the zoom selection on my format menu. One time I did notice below that bar was a slim slice of the actual broadcast so THEY must be adding this space. Other stations like HD soccer will have a similar bar pop up for scores and updates but it eventually goes away and the broadcast fills the screen. It just drives me nutty to invest in a good quality display and have a station waste space. It really sucks on my 65" plasma in my HT. Anyone have any insight. thanks much.




This question i probably better answered on the HDTV broadcasting thread, but it so happens I'm looking at ESPN right now. You're right there is a bar underneath the bottom of the picture. Right now they are scrolling some scores and at the end of the scroll was a Bayer aspirin ad. Now the reason I mention the aspirin is part of that ad extends into that bar you see. Almost 1/2 way down.


So it's obviously done by design. Why they shorten the screen, I have no idea I guess they feel it looks better. It's never bothered me and it won't bother me now.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20534692
> 
> 
> This question i probably better answered on the HDTV broadcasting thread, but it so happens I'm looking at ESPN right now. You're right there is a bar underneath the bottom of the picture. Right now they are scrolling some scores and at the end of the scroll was a Bayer aspirin ad. Now the reason I mention the aspirin is part of that ad extends into that bar you see. Almost 1/2 way down.
> 
> 
> So it's obviously done by design. Why they shorten the screen, I have no idea I guess they feel it looks better. It's never bothered me and it won't bother me now.



Yea, I did but no answer there yet but thanks for the reply. It's just a weird design.


----------



## terryfoster

Are you guys talking about the space below the "bottom line"? If so that space is lost to overscan on some HDTVs. So, to avoid complaints of the "bottom line" being off the screen, ESPN has moved it up to a safer area and then matted the space below (not all the space below mind you since I think I see a few pixels of "action" below that bar on my new screen). They could remove that matting, but they're probably not framing to ensure that space is "good".


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terryfoster* /forum/post/20536529
> 
> 
> Are you guys talking about the space below the "bottom line"? If so that space is lost to overscan on some HDTVs. So, to avoid complaints of the "bottom line" being off the screen, ESPN has moved it up to a safer area and then matted the space below (not all the space below mind you since I think I see a few pixels of "action" below that bar on my new screen). They could remove that matting, but they're probably not framing to ensure that space is "good".



Thanks for clearing that up. That's exactly what I see from time to time, a few pixels of the program that is on. Just don't understand why it's only on the ESPN channels and nowhere else. If every HD broadcast signal is supposed to be 16:9 (1:78) and automatically fill that space, how could ESPN's framing be different (are they using an even tighter frame grid for some reason) or what could not be safe to view, especially if you can see it anyway, the few pixels.


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20536623
> 
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up. That's exactly what I see from time to time, a few pixels of the program that is on. Just don't understand why it's only on the ESPN channels and nowhere else. If every HD broadcast signal is supposed to be 16:9 (1:78) and automatically fill that space, how could ESPN's framing be different (are they using an even tighter frame grid for some reason) or what could not be safe to view, especially if you can see it anyway, the few pixels.



What you're seeing there is ESPN's graphics not covering or being correctly aligned with their live picture.


Keep this in mind, not all screens can see all broadcasted pixels due to overscan. So channels that have a graphic running on any side of their picture will have some kind of spacing between the "content" of the graphic and the edge of the picture to account for overscan.


I've attached a few images to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. These are captures that include some amount of overscan to begin with since I can see more on my screen than I can in these captures, but the red line is constant in each image giving you an approximation of what broadcasters are using as a 16:9 overscan "safe" area.


----------



## hookbill

I had some pixelation on the screen in the game but id didn't last long. I didn't notice anything in that bar. It kind of changes colors at one end.


----------



## Ben Music

Quick question.


Do any of you in the North Ridgeville/Elyria TWC area receieve channel 1215 (Oxygen HD)? I can tune to it, but there is no picture or sound. Please advise.


Thank you

Ben Music


----------



## Wanderlusterer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/20530838
> 
> 
> SNIP.



No need to apologize, I really appreciate the explanation!


Do you have the service?


----------



## Mike_Stuewe

Anyone else experiencing breakups on MLB network?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/20548155
> 
> 
> Anyone else experiencing breakups on MLB network?



They were just talking on channel 5 about a solar flare creating issues with satellite transmissions. That's probably what you're looking at.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wanderlusterer* /forum/post/20547325
> 
> 
> No need to apologize, I really appreciate the explanation!
> 
> 
> Do you have the service?



No, but I'm familiar with the behind the scenes stuff that makes it work.


----------



## HDTD

Does anyone have Time Warner's Signature Home service?


I called about DOCSIS 3.0 service and they tried selling me on the Signature Home package which features a whole house DVR. I'm curious what DVR they use, as I'd still like the ability to add an external hard drive to the DVR box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDTD* /forum/post/20566584
> 
> 
> Does anyone have Time Warner's Signature Home service?
> 
> 
> I called about DOCSIS 3.0 service and they tried selling me on the Signature Home package which features a whole house DVR. I'm curious what DVR they use, as I'd still like the ability to add an external hard drive to the DVR box.


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...87017&page=757 


Start there thend read on…...


----------



## HDTD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20566624
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...87017&page=757
> 
> 
> Start there thend read on...




Thanks so much! Looks like the Samsung DVR.


----------



## hookbill

I've wrote a few times about my issue with MLB Extra Innings and having a TiVo. Apparently I'm the only TiVo owner in TW NEO who subscribes to this.


Well, maybe not but if there are others, probably not many. I got an email from them yesterday asking me to check my channels, that they had tweaked the cards to get them to work correctly. It was working fine.


They had done a manual bypass to fix it as apparently billing and the main system needed to be synced to realize yes, I pay for it. Nice that they fixed it, I appreciate it.


Now if only they could fix my Dodgers issues, I'd be really happy.


----------



## shooter21198

I've been thinking about swapping out the old 4250HDC for something newer. Anyone know what the best non-DVR box available in the NEOWPA is?


----------



## hookbill

I don't think there is a dime's worth of difference in tuners. I think they are all SA but I forget the model number.


----------



## bgiese

Is there a way to hide channels in the TWC on screen guide or to have the favorite list populate the guide?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/20613067
> 
> 
> Is there a way to hide channels in the TWC on screen guide or to have the favorite list populate the guide?



No.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/20613596
> 
> 
> No.



I haven't had my hands on an SA 8300 for sometime, but I think that when you hit settings there was more settings. And I thought it allowed you to put that on a favorietes list.


Then you would push a button on the remote that would only display those settings.


I could be wrong about this, and I had SARA software so I really don't know about Navigator.


I know you can do this on TiVo.


----------



## bgiese

I've got the Cisco 8640HDC DVR. No option for more settings.

Does TWC have a newer or better HD DVR in our area?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't had my hands on an SA 8300 for sometime, but I think that when you hit settings there was more settings. And I thought it allowed you to put that on a favorietes list.
> 
> 
> Then you would push a button on the remote that would only display those settings.
> 
> 
> I could be wrong about this, and I had SARA software so I really don't know about Navigator.
> 
> 
> I know you can do this on TiVo.



You can make a channel a favorite, but it doesn't change the guide onscreen. All it does is let you push the FAV button on the remote to go to the next favorite.


----------



## Digital Iggy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/20613775
> 
> 
> I've got the Cisco 8640HDC DVR. No option for more settings.
> 
> Does TWC have a newer or better HD DVR in our area?



Not sure about that...if I'm not mistaken that is the latest one...I think it was posted before that Cisco bought Scientific Atlanta


----------



## hookbill

Ever notice how much faster they answer the phone when you want to upgrade your service?










Yesterday my cockatoo's OTA converter died. That's right, it's a bird. Anyway, I didn't want him to be lonely so I ran out and got a new box, $50.00 at Walmart. Hooked it up, scanned, and no channels found. Tried moving the antenna everywhere, no luck.


So I was looking for a better antenna when it dawned upon me that this was expensive. I called TW, "How much for a new outlet?" $29.00. No box so additional monthly charge.


You do the math.










So one of my birds will have basic cable next Wednesday. Hope I can get cartoon channel, they say the intelligence for his species is about 4 years old.


----------



## dmking12370




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20632732
> 
> 
> Ever notice how much faster they answer the phone when you want to upgrade your service?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday my cockatoo's OTA converter died. That's right, it's a bird. Anyway, I didn't want him to be lonely so I ran out and got a new box, $50.00 at Walmart. Hooked it up, scanned, and no channels found. Tried moving the antenna everywhere, no luck.
> 
> 
> So I was looking for a better antenna when it dawned upon me that this was expensive. I called TW, "How much for a new outlet?" $29.00. No box so additional monthly charge.
> 
> 
> You do the math.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So one of my birds will have basic cable next Wednesday. Hope I can get cartoon channel, they say the intelligence for his species is about 4 years old.



Question for you.


Assuming that you already have TWC service, why would you pay to have them install the extra outlet when you can just get a splitter and additional cable from Wal-Mart. The cost to do this should be less than the cost quoted by TWC. Just asking.


----------



## bgiese

Here's another question about TWC navigator interface.


Is there a way to instantly delete a show from the DVR list of recorded shows.


I know you can hit OK then highlight delete show then hit OK again and then you confirm by hitting A.


I recently switched from DirecTV and they had clever shortcuts like hitting the dash key twice or pressing the red button to more easily prune your DVR list. You could also do similar shortcuts in the series manager.


So far I'm very happy with TWC vs DirecTV. The "Start Over" and "Look Back" features are awesome.


----------



## toby10

Hook,

I have a ton of Belden RG59 Quad Shield cable and F connectors and the crimping tool to connect them. You are welcome to borrow the crimper and have the cable & connectors. I could even make the cable for you, just need to know the length.


Only problem is when I'll next be in Bainbridge. Might be next week or may not be for a month.

Ever make it out to Strongsville?


----------



## Digital Iggy

I was wondering if anyone is getting MAXHOD??? I see it on the channel line up but it is not on my program guide...







That would be channel 1620


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dmking12370* 
Question for you.


Assuming that you already have TWC service, why would you pay to have them install the extra outlet when you can just get a splitter and additional cable from Wal-Mart. The cost to do this should be less than the cost quoted by TWC. Just asking.
I suppose I could have done that. I didn't even think about it but had I thought about it I wouldn't of. i'm not a cable installer, I didn't want to slice the cable and put a splitter on it which is what I would have to do. Then drill a hole through my wall and run the cable too that. No thanks, I'll pay $30.00 bucks to have someone fix that for if. If something goes wrong it's TW's problem, not mine. I'm not that cheap.


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *toby10* 
Hook,

I have a ton of Belden RG59 Quad Shield cable and F connectors and the crimping tool to connect them. You are welcome to borrow the crimper and have the cable & connectors. I could even make the cable for you, just need to know the length.


Only problem is when I'll next be in Bainbridge. Might be next week or may not be for a month.

Ever make it out to Strongsville?
lol, thank you for the kind offer.







It's OK, I don't mind paying the $30.00 really. It's a one time fee and like I said it's nice to know that if anything went wrong it's on TW.


BTW, he's watching Nicolodeon right now and seems quite happy.


----------



## bgiese

Warped (slow) audio. Ran into a strange issue with our TWC HD-DVR this morning. All the channels were having problem with the audio being output in a lower pitch or warped fashion. Power cycle appears to have fixed issue.


I'm using optical cable for my audio.


Anybody hear this problem before? Wondering if this is a sign that my DVR has a problem.


Thanks


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/20658923
> 
> 
> Warped (slow) audio. Ran into a strange issue with our TWC HD-DVR this morning. All the channels were having problem with the audio being output in a lower pitch or warped fashion. Power cycle appears to have fixed issue.
> 
> 
> I'm using optical cable for my audio.
> 
> 
> Anybody hear this problem before? Wondering if this is a sign that my DVR has a problem.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I have never had this problem! Odd...


----------



## hookbill

Well the good thing about TWC DVR's is if there is a problem, you can get a replacement. You may have to drive 45 minutes now like I do but you can do it.


----------



## hookbill

Got my cable bill today. Apparently when they "fixed" my cable card problem and MLB Extra Innings it generated an additional charge. So I got charged twice for MLB Extra Innings. Not only that, the second charge was at the higher rate.


I called customer service to see why the bill was so high. She spotted the billing issue and said her supervisor had to fix it. She said she would call me back this afternoon. Of course no such phone call came.


Fortunately I'm getting assistance from my contact in TW who understands what happened. What a mess.


----------



## WilliamR

I called TW about their new home advantage/select package that gives you 2 DVRs, and 50 MBs download speeds, etc. WOW, it is expensive, it was an additional $50 over what I am currently paying just for a faster internet and 2 DVRs. They tried to sell it as you also get an appointment at the exact time you want, no longer waiting, custom home network that they setup, and a few other lame perks. Couldn't believe the price increase.


----------



## hookbill

I just started handling the bills so I've been looking at the TW statement. I was just checking to see if the payment I made on Friday was received on line, when I noticed that they had applied a $9.95 trip charge in addition to the $29.95 for the install.


I contacted them by chat and the rep said she saw the charge and it was $10.95, not $9.95. I then decided to call and the rep got back to me and said a credit of $10.95 will be applied.


I'm looking at it right now. It says $9.95 but heaven knows what they are looking at. I'll take the extra buck I suppose but I don't see how they can be looking at a different amount then I see.


----------



## its.mike

@hook, any chance you can check with contact to see when the new Navigator update is scheduled to roll out in NEO?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/20709656
> 
> 
> @hook, any chance you can check with contact to see when the new Navigator update is scheduled to roll out in NEO?



Not really. I usually don't know about something like that. Cathoid Kid usually will give us a day or two notice.


----------



## petem23

So my neighbors SA 8300HD died and when thay came out to replace it, they swapped it for the new samsung dvr. Im guessing its the new one they use for the signature service. Anybody have luck swaaping the old SA for the new Sammy? What are my chances if i walk into a TWC office and ask for a swap?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petem23* /forum/post/20710949
> 
> 
> So my neighbors SA 8300HD died and when thay came out to replace it, they swapped it for the new samsung dvr. Im guessing its the new one they use for the signature service. Anybody have luck swaaping the old SA for the new Sammy? What are my chances if i walk into a TWC office and ask for a swap?



Guess again. That Samsung DVR has been around for over a year. I think the one for signature services is also a Samsung but not the one your neighbor got. Unless of course he ordered signature service. They aren't handing those out to everybody.


The on with signature service has a 500 GB hard drive on it. I think the Samsung is only 200 GB.


----------



## Akronviper

So I have been lurking in this forum for years but now I must say I finally got fed up and will be going to DTv.


I had the Extreme Internet Installed 30/5 and figured while they are here have the whole house DVR installed since it was free install. Take the day off of work, guy get to the house promptly at 8:00 but misread his work order and only have the cable modem. He goes to his next job and has someone bring the equipment to him and is back by 9:00, no problem.


So after a 1.5 install (of installing filters and boxes) he cant get it to work and still believes the equipment is wrong. Says since he is late for the next install he would be back around 1:00 with the right stuff, ill be home whatever.


Well at 5:30 I get a call he is on the way, at 7:00 he shows up with no box and says he will be there at 8:00 to finish. So no friday night with TV OK fine. I go to work at 6:00 come home at 8:00 to meet him on the Sat (missing OT) and no show wait till 10:00 and nothing. Call TW they say they will call me back within the hour and have someone come out. I go back to work and no call ever comes I call around 1:00 and they say oh they are to booked to come out today and can schedule for next thursday (it was in the notes to call back but they didnt). After I flip and get told to damn bad I go home at 5:30 after 11.5 hours and low and behold the guy calls and shows up at 7:30


Ok whatever just install it. So he gets it to work, no more than 5 minutes after he leaves it stops working. I call support they say they have to send out a tech. No way am I falling for that, I will take the boxes back on Monday.


So I get the bill, the free install was $69.00 including 2 trip fees, WTF? not to mention they doubled the cost of my DVR due to a schedulled step which will step up till 2014 ($4.95 to $9.95 x 2 tvs). they also charged me for a partial month at $29.00, but if the internet only went up $19.99 how is that. After arguing and requesting but not getting a supervisor, being told "I dont who told you the install was free, its not and its non-refundable I get them to reduce down to my new monthly total.


Soon as I get off the phone with them I look at the mail at the Direct TV ad as a sign I only take as revenge the DVR stops working. So I shall be keeping roadrunner and getting Satellite installed I figure it cant go any worse right...lol Now they say I locked into a 2 yr agreement somehow we shall see about that TW, you raise my rates $13 in an agreement I shall only get internet haha


----------



## Vchat20

Unfortunately with TWC about 95% of their field workers are contracted out to a third party and do a piss poor job (to say the absolute least!). TWC isn't bad on their own, but the people they contract to do customer work SUCK. In my opinion if you can at all convince them to let you do a self install and pick equipment up at the nearest office, go for it.


----------



## Akronviper

Yeah trust me I tried, but I guess the whole house DVR and the Docis 3 internet is only installer only. I played the "Those subs are idiots" and 'TW guys are idiots" game when we built our house. 10 trips and all they did was just undo what the last guy did....lol


----------



## hookbill

Seriously, Time Warner this is absolutely criminal. Charging for trip charges and not telling people about it. It's absurd and they never have charged for that in the past. But I suppose enough people don't look at their bill close enough to complain.


I just think everyone should be aware, ask if they are going to charge you money for coming out even for routine service. My brother has Comcrap in Nashville and you know what those crooks do? If you call them out about a problem and they don't find a legitimate issue, they charge a trip charge. Time Warner apparently has just taking to adding these charges on.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. I've never seen a cable company I've liked. I did like Direct TV even though I was getting it from another provider because of where I lived. They don't use that practice anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/20723903
> 
> 
> Unfortunately with TWC about 95% of their field workers are contracted out to a third party and do a piss poor job (to say the absolute least!). TWC isn't bad on their own, but the people they contract to do customer work SUCK. In my opinion if you can at all convince them to let you do a self install and pick equipment up at the nearest office, go for it.



You know I didn't realize it until they left but on that outlet they installed in my house they didn't even use decorative screws for the face plates. My wife saw it and said "Why didn't they install it here (about 18 inches). She's right, that's where it should of gone but me being a guy and just thinking they were lining them up with the phone outlet and wall socket I didn't even think of it.


----------



## basil lambri

Time Warner Cable just announced on July 22 that WOIO channel 19 in Cleveland will start carrying MeTV on the subchannel that they use now for Weather Now on August 1 and TWC will be carrying it in the Cleveland area on channel 987.


----------



## Tim Lones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *basil lambri* /forum/post/20730015
> 
> 
> Time Warner Cable just announced on July 22 that WOIO channel 19 in Cleveland will start carrying MeTV on the subchannel that they use now for Weather Now on August 1 and TWC will be carrying it in the Cleveland area on channel 987.


 http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...ngNotices.html 


Link to the programming notices page:This is what I suspected they might do, with Antenna TV on 988 and RTV on 989.


----------



## basil lambri

MeTV lit up today, August 1, on channel 987 on TWC.


----------



## hookbill

Yep, its been like that since the NFL Network was launched. TWC is totally unreasonable about this. They also won't allow iPad users to use the HBO to Go app. All other cable companies do. Not trying to change the topic but that's how they are.


----------



## scnrfrq

Looks like there is some hope for getting the NFL Network on TW:
http://www.adweek.com/news/televisio...r-cable-133867


----------



## hookbill

I don't know if anybody ever noticed in my signature, which I now have changed I mentioned "come talk about your droid at (website).


I've pulled that part off just for a bit while I "switch homes." However needless to say I am into Android powered devices. I'm also a big fan of Apple too so if you have an iPhone I won't argue with you.










Because of my interest in this I do frequently check out stories about Android devices and what's going on in that world. Well, while reading about the the Google acquisition of Motorola Mobility I saw this:


Besides cell phones, Motorola Mobility makes cable set-top boxes, a fact that Page called "a great opportunity."

_Google has long been interested in bringing its search services and advertising to TV screens, but consumers have shown little interest the company's products so far. Motorola's cable box business gives Google another chance to get the software in front of viewers, but only if cable companies agree. Motorola's biggest competitor in the cable box business is Cisco Systems Inc._


My first thought was "hey, this would be great. TWC gets these babies and I'll gladly get rid of my TiVo" because I'd love to have Google TV included with the cable.


Then reality set in. Comcast uses Moto boxes to provide their customers DVR services and TWC has moved towards Cisco and Samsung. So that probably means we won't ever see that happen for us.


This is really too bad. A box that included Google TV from a cable company would be inexpensive and a big leap forward (IMHO) for cable. But I doubt if we will ever see that with TWC.


----------



## toby10

GoogleTV has been a disaster. Google purchases other companies and technologies (which is how they got GoogleTV), Google tries to "improve" them, but really ends up destroying them.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> GoogleTV has been a disaster. Google purchases other companies and technologies (which is how they got GoogleTV), Google tries to "improve" them, but really ends up destroying them.



Android seemed to work out ok


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/20835348
> 
> 
> Android seemed to work out ok



Yeah and they should do great with phones. Google would just pump some money in on the cable box. I don't think they would get involved with it other then adding Google TV. Just what's wrong with it anyway?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe*  /forum/post/20835348
> 
> 
> Android seemed to work out ok



Indeed. Just as Microsoft hits on a good Windows version..... every now & then.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/20836537
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as Microsoft hits on a good Windows version..... every now & then.



Just as Apple makes one good product. The iPod classic.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/20836537
> 
> 
> Indeed. Just as Microsoft hits on a good Windows version..... every now & then.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/20838437
> 
> 
> Just as Apple makes one good product. The iPod classic.



Hey I'm not a moderator here, but I do play one in another forum and I'm telling you we are off topic.










Anyway Apple makes a lot of good stuff, Microsoft basically sucks, and Android has issues. I love the iPad.


Let me explain. Hopefully the real moderator doesn't see this.










Android as a stand alone phone can pose problems for some people. It can be difficult to understand and many people give up without wanting to learn and go back to their iPhone, Windows phone, or non smart phone.


Then there is the manufacturers. The problem with it is that with more then one manufacturers you got a lot of people getting their hands on the OS. When that happens, you start getting a fragmented OS.


Now Google has been working hard to fix that and one of the ways they can do this is by purchasing Motorola. This way they have a company to distribute their own OS as they want. If you recall Google tried to sell the Nexus but due to lack of customer service it failed big time.


Now Motorola will probably provide the most pure Android OS and more then likely will be updated first. That's provided Verizon will allow them to release it without a locked bootloader so people can customize their phones as they please.


And that's a real stumbling block because Verizon loves to load your phone and I don't care what kind it is with bloatware. It's another source of revenue. And if you leave that bootloader unlocked any one who owns a phone can simply root it and remove their precious software. This goes on anyway so it's kind of pointless but locking the bootloader does limit some of what can actually be done.


Now I'll try to get back on topic. The whole reason I brought it up was that I think Internet television is the future. TiVo has it in some ways and Google is attempting to bring theirs into the market.


So what exactly is wrong with Google TV? Can someone answer?


----------



## toby10

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
......

So what exactly is wrong with Google TV? Can someone answer?
For starters....
http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/secto...021848.article


----------



## hookbill

Quote:

Originally Posted by *toby10* 
For starters....
http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/secto...021848.article
For starters? Yes, that would be for starters I would guess.


You find an article written in 12/20/10 clearly stating they were having some technical issuses from a British magazine I never heard of. I won't do my usual AVS beat down on you for a couple of reasons, the most important one being I respect you as a member and I don't do that anymore but man it sure is tempting.










How about something in your own words with a link to provide back up? That might be a little more helpful.


According to what I read Google didn't want that to be shown at CES but Samsung decided to do it anyway. Thinking back I have to admit it has been a while since I've heard anything about Google TV.


My understanding of the current situation with cable and satellite television is that they are having horrible years. The reason for this is as they say "It's the economy, dummie." (insert stupid, I forgot which) Anyway as I'm sure you're aware there are all kinds of ways to access television through internet by companies like hulu and also I was tweeted some rather complicated work arounds to not pay anything.


People want internet TV and cable is a perfect medium to carry it. Google IMHO is not Micosoft, they are a very good, solid high tech company. They would be perfect for delivering this. But all of that is a mute point, TWC doesn't have moto boxes anymore and we all know the reason for that is because of the decision to run Navigator so I doubt we will see it anytime soon.


----------



## toby10

Just google "googletv", there are many posted issues.


The Dec 2010 article I did post is still true, universal in all countries, equipment mfr's are still delaying hardware roll outs to support GoogleTV, Logitech has lost millions on it's Revue box which is dying because it relies solely on GoogleTV.


Bring your "beat down" when you can post GoogleTV success stories as posting the continued failures of GoogleTV is pointless.









http://venturebeat.com/2011/07/28/lo...down-revue-99/ 


"Logitech CEO Quindlen steps down"

"Slow sales of Logitech’s Google TV Revue set-top box, which Quindlen was a major supporter of last year, were likely one reason for his move."

"The company announced this morning that it will be cutting the Revue’s price from $249 to $99 to spur sales."

"Google has been slow to update the software"


----------



## hookbill

I did exactly that, and I would say your assessments of Google TV seem to be on the mark.


It does appear it's going to fail, but the main reason for this not only is one of technology. Every major network doesn't want Google in the industry (including hulu - what a surprise). And the only carrier of it at all appears to be Dish and I know this is going to stir at least one person up out there, Dish is not exactly my preferred satellite provider.


Anyway point taken and like I said it won't appear on TWC boxes anyway. Maybe TWC and Cisco will come up with something.


----------



## toby10

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
I did exactly that, and I would say your assessments of Google TV seem to be on the mark......
I think (and hope) GoogleTV will survive, but when is the question. For now it is a failed attempt to enter the streaming TV market.

I just wouldn't be buying any GoogleTV dependent hardware in the near future until it is a proven solution long term.


----------



## hookbill

My wife and I are still very married but due to the current economic situation I'm here and she's in Virginia. She has a small apartment there and Comcrap is the cable provider.


I found several things that were kind of interesting. They are going to "all digital" so those that don't have a box have to get one or get a Digital TV Adapter.


One of the first things I noticed is that cable cards work with their system. So if you have a television that uses cable cards there is no need to switch. I also see there is no need for a tuner adapter for TiVo's. That means no SDV.


So how do they expand their line up? Obviously freeing up analog will provide more bandwidth but is that enough to keep competitive with Satellite?


If so I sure wish TW would have done that instead of the SDV garbage we have now.

http://customer.comcast.com/Pages/FA...ap=all_faq_map 


Thats all the questions and answers, if you're curious.


----------



## dtabet2

I have a new hdhomerun prime Tuner that uses TWO(2) Cable cards and TWO(2) tunning adapters. I have spent 2.5 weeks trying to get either "Self Install" or "technician Installed" Services. I have called the number for twcneo customer service, Twc cable card activation and troubleshooting, Local sales office, Local Exchange office, ect soforth and so on. NOBODY can seem to get me the services I need. Nobody seems to know who to call or what procedure to follow. I have been told that after sept 1 that self installs will be available. But I am hoping that somebody here has experiences this and can offer words of wisdom. Does anybody have John Higgins email ? He is the new departement president of NEOPA and I think that Im going to fire off an email as all other aves have failed..

..


Just got off the phone witht the cable tech that was scheduled

he wasnt told to bring cable cards and he doesnt have tunning adapters..

this is fn nuts.


Dan


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtabet2* /forum/post/20873945
> 
> 
> I have a new hdhomerun prime Tuner that uses TWO(2) Cable cards and TWO(2) tunning adapters. I have spent 2.5 weeks trying to get either "Self Install" or "technician Installed" Services. I have called the number for twcneo customer service, Twc cable card activation and troubleshooting, Local sales office, Local Exchange office, ect soforth and so on. NOBODY can seem to get me the services I need. Nobody seems to know who to call or what procedure to follow. I have been told that after sept 1 that self installs will be available. But I am hoping that somebody here has experiences this and can offer words of wisdom. Does anybody have John Higgins email ? He is the new departement president of NEOPA and I think that Im going to fire off an email as all other aves have failed..
> 
> ..
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone witht the cable tech that was scheduled
> 
> he wasnt told to bring cable cards and he doesnt have tunning adapters..
> 
> this is fn nuts.
> 
> 
> Dan



Hi Dan. Welcome to the Forum.


I just took a look at your device, I'm not familiar with it and I see it works with Windows. I assume it must have 4 channel recording since you need two cards because 1 M card has two channel capacity.


Tuner Adapters are available to people who have TiVo's and I would think that it should be available for you but I have never seen any device other then a TiVo that a TA is designed for. Another thing is that all of TWC digital channels have a code to prevent transfer from one device to another. The only ones you can do that with are analog channels and HD locals.


I'm trying to get some information from someone at TWC to help you out. If Cathode Kid see's your post he may have some advice for you. If I find out anything I will do a separate post.


Self installs of the cards isn's allowed by TWC. Those cards will need to be paired and that can be a bit complicated.


----------



## dtabet2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20874015
> 
> 
> Hi Dan. Welcome to the Forum.
> 
> 
> I just took a look at your device, I'm not familiar with it and I see it works with Windows. I assume it must have 4 channel recording since you need two cards because 1 M card has two channel capacity.
> 
> 
> Tuner Adapters are available to people who have TiVo's and I would think that it should be available for you but I have never seen any device other then a TiVo that a TA is designed for. Another thing is that all of TWC digital channels have a code to prevent transfer from one device to another. The only ones you can do that with are analog channels and HD locals.
> 
> 
> I'm trying to get some information from someone at TWC to help you out. If Cathode Kid see's your post he may have some advice for you. If I find out anything I will do a separate post.
> 
> 
> Self installs of the cards isn's allowed by TWC. Those cards will need to be paired and that can be a bit complicated.



well that would be helpfull I just called and got routed to the cablecard selfinstall line found here

hxxp:// www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/1/1/Content%20Management/pdf/support/cablecard/CableCARD_Self_Install_Letter_allOtheRregions.pdf 

replace the xx with TT


and he was as helpfull as he could be and was going to get me in touch with a resolutions specialist.


but this seems to be a pia.... any help would be perfect

Dan


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtabet2* /forum/post/20874288
> 
> 
> well that would be helpfull I just called and got routed to the cablecard selfinstall line found here
> 
> hxxp:// www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/1/1/Content%20Management/pdf/support/cablecard/CableCARD_Self_Install_Letter_allOtheRregions.pdf
> 
> replace the xx with TT
> 
> 
> and he was as helpfull as he could be and was going to get me in touch with a resolutions specialist.
> 
> 
> but this seems to be a pia.... any help would be perfect
> 
> Dan



My person did get back to me. She does not know if your device is compatible with the Tuner Adapter.


That surprised me because she knows everything about cable cards and tuner adapters. I think she just never heard of your device. I hadn't either, but then again I have a Mac so I wouldn't been interested in something like that.


From what I read I do think the TA will work with it.


A few things you may want to be aware of, this goes for everyone who uses cable cards and SDV.


Tuner Adapters sometimes are a bit slow in delivering the channel, at least mine are I have two of them and two TiVo's. So if you're recording a show on a channel that uses SDV and that's a lot of them there is a possibility that that you may just get a gray screen. Now if you're there and you see this the fix is to channel up two times, allow that channel to load then go back to the channel you want. This has caused me to miss several recordings.


I know this is the tuner adapter because the TiVo goes to the channel. It just goes where it's suppose to but if there is no signal to record there is nothing it can do.


Another thing you may not be aware of. You will no longer have the ability to use On Demand. Cable cards and the TA are not capable of using that feature. No start over either.


If you already knew that then no problem.


This is the number for the cable card hot line: 866.532.2598 When I took my cable cards out of one of the machines and put it in another, they helped me activate my cards. And although it doesn't happen very often there will be times when your TA will brick. You'll know that if you see 8 flashes and a pause of the green light. Calling customer service and having to explain what you're calling for is a pia, I call them directly. They don't like it when I do it but hey, I'm paying the bill.


If my contact gets back to me with any other info (she said she'd look into it) I'll let you know.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hookbill* 
I'm trying to get some information from someone at TWC to help you out. If Cathode Kid see's your post he may have some advice for you. If I find out anything I will do a separate post.
The manual for the HD Prime specifically mentions the Cisco STA tuning adapter as being compatible with it. The STA has to be able to recognize whatever CE gizmo is plugged into it, so there might need to be some information exchange between the two manufacturers before the STA can communicate with the HD Prime. It should be do-able as long as both parties have the drivers and everything has been regression tested against existing controller software.


I dunno why the Silicon Dust folks didn't take this to it's logical conclusion and put a Tru2Way interface in there. Then it wouldn't need an STA.


----------



## dtabet2

well i guess the president John Higgins at least gets this passed to the appropriate hands.... because let me tell you I got a call today from a signature home tech with cablecard experience. He setup a ONE ON ONE appointment and says we will get this DONE no matter what tomorrow... He will have equipement in hand and will not leave until we are running.

So Im not going to openly give out his address but it isnt hard to figure out.


This is the copy of the email I sent in...




First off, I would like to thank you for your time if you are reading this email. My name is Dan Tabet and I am a subscriber to TWCNEOPA services here in The 44XXX Zip code.




Over the last few weeks I have had MULTIPLE calls to (1-877-772-2253).


several visits to the following location



Akron


Midway Plaza 37 Midway Plaza

Akron, OH

Hours of Operation: Mon-Fri: 9:00 AM - 7:00 PM, Sat. 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM, Closed Sun.


I have setup appointments for technician installation which have been unsuccessful.


Due to no cable cards on the truck, No tuning adapters.


Every call yields different info. Uneducated Employees.


What I Need is the following


2 tuning adapters and 2 cable card self install kits OR


a cable technician with the above ON TRUCK and the KNOWLEDGE to install them.


I can not tell you how painful this process has been or how much time I have invested in chasing down dead end leads.


Any and all help you can provide in making this happen would be wonderful

Again thank you for your time.



as am sending this email I am on the phone yet again with the 1877 number trying to get the services i pay for.


The call failed with a reroute the the cablecard help desk...


I just got off with them and they are trying to reach out to the customer resolution specialist in neopa division.


I do not have a direct number for this.



[email protected] was very helpfull in the past. Im hoping you will be as well


my phone number on the account is


330-xxx-xxxx


service address is

xxxxxxxxx


I an be reached directly via cell @


330-xxx-xxxx



Dan


----------



## hookbill

Yep, I sent tons of email to Steve Fry and got results every time. It was what I had to do to get my cable cards installed in my TiVo S3.


I had a supervisor and a tech come out to put mine in. The supervisor had never done it before and he went on the web and got the instruction sheet before coming out. They were from Macedonia which no longer services my area. Matter of fact, that facility is closed.


To get the Cable Cards I first told the CSR that I had a TiVo. She immediately insisted that no one device could get two cards. I got no where with her. So I called back and told them I had two HD sets and needed cable cards installed on both of them. Just like you the guy came out, didn't have the cards, didn't know what a TiVo was. Then I gave Steve an email and that got results.


When I got my second TiVo I sent an email straight to Fry and basically said I don't want to have to go through all that again. Again a manager called sent 2 guys out when I was available in the evening and did the install.


And even with all that it took a long time for them to do it. The person they spoke to didn't understand about pairing and it was difficult for them to explain to her.


Now CSR's know what a TiVo is, but they don't know much about them. So your device will take some time for them to understand what it is. Anyway, let us know how it goes. I'm curious as to the cable card hook up, in my case 2 S cards were necessary. M cards weren't available then and the S3 wouldn't work with them anyway. I'd like to know how many channels you can record at one time. I'm guessing 4 if it requires 2 cards.


Good luck Dan. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## dtabet2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20881180
> 
> 
> 
> Now CSR's know what a TiVo is, but they don't know much about them. So your device will take some time for them to understand what it is. Anyway, let us know how it goes. I'm curious as to the cable card hook up, in my case 2 S cards were necessary. M cards weren't available then and the S3 wouldn't work with them anyway. I'd like to know how many channels you can record at one time. I'm guessing 4 if it requires 2 cards.
> 
> 
> Good luck Dan. Let us know how it goes.



it is suppose to be 6.... but That is new stuff so..... it is my understanding that for pc cards like centon it can do 4 per card if the card is updated with newer firmware. in hd homeruns case cardlabs required on of the 4 streams for the newwork interface. is is my understanding that I can dedicate each tuner to a media center in the house.... or have all go to the main machine. And i am curious about the flags.... i understand the concept.... but all are set to copy once? except for hp primetimes?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dtabet2* /forum/post/20881311
> 
> 
> it is suppose to be 6.... but That is new stuff so..... it is my understanding that for pc cards like centon it can do 4 per card if the card is updated with newer firmware. in hd homeruns case cardlabs required on of the 4 streams for the newwork interface. is is my understanding that I can dedicate each tuner to a media center in the house.... or have all go to the main machine. And i am curious about the flags.... i understand the concept.... but all are set to copy once? except for hp primetimes?



I'm kind of going by memory but as I recall, 0x2 means copy once, 0x3 means copy never (you shouldn't see that) and 0X1 is copy freely.


So you would have to tune to the channel and see what the diagnostics say, but I can tell you that its TWC policy to tune EVERY digital channel, with the exception of your local channels to 0x2.


The reason for doing this is to prevent unauthorized copying. But here's where it doesn't make sense: You can freely copy USA, FX, ESPN or anything that's on their analog system. You can transfer from one device to another, for example if I want I can move my recordings either to another TiVo or to my computer. But the HD versions of these channels can only be copied to one device.


Now in my case I could record 2 copies of the same digital channel but I wouldn't be able to move them from my computer or back and forth from TiVo to TiVo. How your unit works, I don't know but those copy codes should work exactly like it does with my TiVo.


I don't know what local channels you get in PA but for me that's the only HD I can record. Now I'm not sure about the sub channels, I never look at them but I would think that since they are local they would be copy freely as well. But anything else on their digital tier, regardless of HD or SD is copy once.


When they started doing this I went to TWC main headquarters and pointed out that how much sense does it make to have a digital channel showing wrestling from the 1980's restricted. And why is it OK to record the analogs freely but not the same channel in HD (digital).


I was given a $20.00 credit for my inconvenience and told to have a good day. As it turns out now with the eSATA's available now at 2 or 3 tb's it's not as big of a deal as it was when it first started. We were restricted to a 250 gb hard drive and 500 gb eSata. So that's why I wanted the ability to move certain programs to my computer. There are also probably ways around it now, I'm just not that much into it anymore to care.


----------



## JJkizak

I'm wondering why you need internet tv if you have cable, satellite or OTA.

JJK


----------



## subavision212

I have a pretty simple question but wanted to ask the experts. My brother just bought an Insignia 720p plasma that has a QAM tuner. He has the most basic (I think 18 channels) Time Warner cable hook up. He connected his cable directly to the set, hit auto scan but he is not seeing any of the local HD channels (3.1, 5.1 etc). When he enters 3.1 with his remote it goes to channel 4. So my question is should he be getting those channels even with the cheapest service or would TW be blocking those channels or something else. thanks for the help.


----------



## Vchat20

I'm going to ask: Did he assume they weren't there by the fact channel numbers 3.1, 5.1, etc.. didn't show up? It's very common for these channels to show up on random numbers like 151-2, 384-80, and other random locations. Would be worth scanning through what actually shows up digitally (XX-X channels) and see if they are there somewhere.


----------



## hookbill

TWC also moves it's QAM channels from time to time. So if he tunes to a certain channel and it's no longer there, another scan may be necessary.


When I first got my TiVo S3 without cable cards essentially that created the same type of situation your brother has. I did like Vchat20 said but I distinctly remember that I couldn't locate FOX 8. I even asked for a current QAM list and was told what channel it was on yet I still couldn't tune it in.


I know from time to time some people have made listings in this Forum of current QAM channels. I think toby10 use to but to be honest everyone either has a DVR or uses a digital box these days.


If all else fails and toby10 doesn't see this post try sending him a pm and see what he can tell you.


----------



## toby10

Wish I could help, but my service is WOW not TWC.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/20937277
> 
> 
> I'm going to ask: Did he assume they weren't there by the fact channel numbers 3.1, 5.1, etc.. didn't show up? It's very common for these channels to show up on random numbers like 151-2, 384-80, and other random locations. Would be worth scanning through what actually shows up digitally (XX-X channels) and see if they are there somewhere.



thanks for the replies and I will pass this info on.


----------



## subavision212

okay, so I guess I still need some info. My brother returned the Insignia and bought an LG plasma that did specify having a built-in HD tuner. Now he has Time Warner basic service and again after doing an auto scan none of the local HD stations are showing up. So my question is can you NOT get the local HD stations with TW's basic service? Do you have to step up to the standard service in order to have them show up? I have two lcd's hooked up directly to the cable (it is the standard service) and both displays have HD tuners and the local HD stations show up on both. It's still confusing since another brother has a Sharp display that is hooked up to TW basic service and he gets the local HD stations on his after scanning. Of course when my brother called TW and asked about why he couldn't get the local channels a SR told him he had to get a box and the HD tier. I told him that was BS, that he should be able to get the locals as long as his display has the HD tuner. So if anyone can clear this up and can offer some more advice he is tying to enjoy some HD after years of putting off getting a new display. thanks.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20940321
> 
> 
> okay, so I guess I still need some info. My brother returned the Insignia and bought an LG plasma that did specify having a built-in HD tuner. Now he has Time Warner basic service and again after doing an auto scan none of the local HD stations are showing up. So my question is can you NOT get the local HD stations with TW's basic service? Do you have to step up to the standard service in order to have them show up? I have two lcd's hooked up directly to the cable (it is the standard service) and both displays have HD tuners and the local HD stations show up on both. It's still confusing since another brother has a Sharp display that is hooked up to TW basic service and he gets the local HD stations on his after scanning. Of course when my brother called TW and asked about why he couldn't get the local channels a SR told him he had to get a box and the HD tier. I told him that was BS, that he should be able to get the locals as long as his display has the HD tuner. So if anyone can clear this up and can offer some more advice he is tying to enjoy some HD after years of putting off getting a new display. thanks.



He lost a little in the translation of what the CSR said. CSR said he had to have digital service, not a HD tier. HD on TW is free. There is a separate digital tier with a few channels on it but the vast majority are free.


Now having said that to the best of my knowledge all you need to get the local HD channels was to have them clear in the QAM.


However I went a step further to get an answer. http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...t-in-digital-T 


You see that confirms that you should be able to get it when it's clear in the QAM. The CSR probably said what they were told to say or have learned from their co-workers. If you were to ask them "What about clear in the QAM?" I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know what you were talking about.


Edit: One other thing. Don't expect TWC to consider this their issue. They definitely won't, it will be your brothers issue. If he does get someone to understand what he's talking about they will say sorry, we can't help him with his television tuner.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Those with 8300 boxes in the north might notice an upgrade to ODN 3.0 tonight. Your box will reboot after being upgraded.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/20940730
> 
> 
> He lost a little in the translation of what the CSR said. CSR said he had to have digital service, not a HD tier. HD on TW is free. There is a separate digital tier with a few channels on it but the vast majority are free.
> 
> 
> Now having said that to the best of my knowledge all you need to get the local HD channels was to have them clear in the QAM.
> 
> 
> However I went a step further to get an answer. http://www.timewarnercable.com/neowp...t-in-digital-T
> 
> 
> You see that confirms that you should be able to get it when it's clear in the QAM. The CSR probably said what they were told to say or have learned from their co-workers. If you were to ask them "What about clear in the QAM?" I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know what you were talking about.
> 
> 
> Edit: One other thing. Don't expect TWC to consider this their issue. They definitely won't, it will be your brothers issue. If he does get someone to understand what he's talking about they will say sorry, we can't help him with his television tuner.



thanks so much for clearing this up. I'll send him your info and hopefully it will help.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20937214
> 
> 
> I have a pretty simple question but wanted to ask the experts. My brother just bought an Insignia 720p plasma that has a QAM tuner. He has the most basic (I think 18 channels) Time Warner cable hook up. He connected his cable directly to the set, hit auto scan but he is not seeing any of the local HD channels (3.1, 5.1 etc). When he enters 3.1 with his remote it goes to channel 4. So my question is should he be getting those channels even with the cheapest service or would TW be blocking those channels or something else. thanks for the help.



Some TVs have separate modes for scanning either OTA channels (ATSC/8VSB format) or Cable (QAM format). Make sure his set isn't configured to look for "antenna" channels only.


----------



## toby10

Cable CSR's have little (if any) training for QAM service so you will almost always get goofy or inaccurate info from them.


As Cathode suggests make sure he is properly selecting the correct input and settings for QAM.

Is he getting anything on these scans like the shopping & public access ch's? Or he is getting everything except the local HD's?


----------



## hookbill

IIRC with a digital tuner available you should also be able to receive the music channels. So that's something else to look for. Now I"m not saying Paladia or VH! HD, just the digitial music channels that cable provides.


----------



## subavision212

Just an update on this weird situation. My brother still can't get the local HD stations even after scanning on cable or antenna or whatever other setting is on the 42" 720p Insignia plasma. We confirmed that his new display has all three tuners but after scanning and going to channel list he is only showing 22 channels (when he scans set to cable he says it goes to 120 or so). So no matter what he does only those channels are showing up after a scan. I don

't know if this matters but he has been on TW old $8 a month plan for their most basic cable plan for a very long time so could that be the problem? Would they not include the clear channels for that plan or have a filter placed on his line. Anyway, it's all a bit strange to the point that I even suggested since he only wants those 12 or so channels to just get an antenna since FoolTV indicates he can get all those easily with one. So the beat goes on. thanks again.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20945411
> 
> 
> Just an update on this weird situation. My brother still can't get the local HD stations even after scanning on cable or antenna or whatever other setting is on the 42" 720p Insignia plasma. We confirmed that his new display has all three tuners but after scanning and going to channel list he is only showing 22 channels (when he scans set to cable he says it goes to 120 or so). So no matter what he does only those channels are showing up after a scan. I don
> 
> 't know if this matters but he has been on TW old $8 a month plan for their most basic cable plan for a very long time so could that be the problem? Would they not include the clear channels for that plan or have a filter placed on his line. Anyway, it's all a bit strange to the point that I even suggested since he only wants those 12 or so channels to just get an antenna since FoolTV indicates he can get all those easily with one. So the beat goes on. thanks again.



You likely have the upper frequencies trapped out if you only have lifeline basic, so this would explain the behavior. Regular basic and above would not have this issue. Your options would be to move to upgrade to a higher tier or use an antenna for the OTA HDs. If you're on the SW side of Cleveland you could probably get by with an indoor antenna .


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/20946007
> 
> 
> You likely have the upper frequencies trapped out if you only have lifeline basic, so this would explain the behavior. Regular basic and above would not have this issue. Your options would be to move to upgrade to a higher tier or use an antenna for the OTA HDs. If you're on the SW side of Cleveland you could probably get by with an indoor antenna .



thanks for the update. I don't think he wants to upgrade his cable so maybe he'll opt for the antenna. I just feel bad for him since he finally broke down and got the new display only to have this happen after I told him he could at least have local HD with a new set, not realizing this was a possible scenario.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20946409
> 
> 
> thanks for the update. I don't think he wants to upgrade his cable so maybe he'll opt for the antenna. I just feel bad for him since he finally broke down and got the new display only to have this happen after I told him he could at least have local HD with a new set, not realizing this was a possible scenario.



It really depends on where he is at in regards to several thing as to whether or not he's going to get a good signal.


Where I live I could only get about 5 channels via antenna. Now granted, I didn't have a good high quality antenna and it was an indoor antenna. But some of the channels, like FOX 8 still broadcast on VHF. Digital signals do not carry well on VHF.


Most of us are familiar with antennaweb.org and they do the best they can but as I said it sort of depends where you live. I'm about 40 minutes from Cleveland and I can't get squat, but someone in Akron probably can.


He's entitled to free HD television if he can receive it. If that doesn't work though he will have to get basic cable, not life line. If he does get a good signal he will be quite pleased I'm sure.


Now I'm not throwing you out of here, I'm just letting you know that if you need more assistance in regards to antennas and such there is another Cleveland forum on OTA that split off of this one. Good people over there, they will be more then willing to help you. Good luck.


----------



## toby10

I second the idea of just getting a good antenna for the HD locals, picture quality will often be better than on cable anyway.


I'm in SW Cleveland (Strongsville, almost into Columbia Station) and I use a very discreet outdoor antenna to pick up all Cleveland HD locals.


Poster Coldwar just posted a pic of his Winegard MS 2000 amplified omnidirectional saucer antenna (same one I use) in the Cleveland OTA forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...139546&page=73


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212* /forum/post/20946409
> 
> 
> thanks for the update. I don't think he wants to upgrade his cable so maybe he'll opt for the antenna. I just feel bad for him since he finally broke down and got the new display only to have this happen after I told him he could at least have local HD with a new set, not realizing this was a possible scenario.



Has he tried to punch in the HD channels directly? 3-1, 5-1, 8-1, etc. Just wondering.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music* /forum/post/20948020
> 
> 
> Has he tried to punch in the HD channels directly? 3-1, 5-1, 8-1, etc. Just wondering.
> 
> 
> Ben Music



Already been asked and answered.


----------



## petem23

Hello. My old SA8300HD is taken a dump. I'll be heading to an office to swap for a new one tomorrow. Is there any thing newer/better/higher capacity available then the old SA8300 I should be asking for?


----------



## JJkizak

I know this is really stupid but is he punching in 3-1 or 3.1?

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petem23* /forum/post/20974895
> 
> 
> Hello. My old SA8300HD is taken a dump. I'll be heading to an office to swap for a new one tomorrow. Is there any thing newer/better/higher capacity available then the old SA8300 I should be asking for?



What they have available may depend on where you live. There is a Samsung that they use now, and you certainly can ask for it but what you get is what they have available for you.


Most people seem to have pretty good luck getting what they want.


I'm sure you know they also offer a whole house DVR. More money, of course.


----------



## petem23

Im in Westlake. Hopefully they will have the Sammy when i trade in tomorrow.


I received an update on the Sa8300 last night. Anyone know if there are any new features? The only thing i can see is it looks like a different font when you fast-forward or rewind and if you hit guide twice it brings up a new menu called "select guide channels".


----------



## hookbill

I've only heard one negative report about the Samsung and that member doesn't come around anymore. He also preferred SARA over Navigator.










I really don't see what difference the machine you use matters. You'll still be running Navigator, and it will update just like yours did last night.


----------



## petem23

For some reason my Samsung pn50c550 plasma has never played right with the SA8300. I have to force 1080i resolution to the tv or the picture gets funky when resolutions change. Hopefully a Sammy box will play nicer. Plus the Sa8300 is an eye sore.


The reason im trading is the record light never goes off on the box, the remote dvr service never works, and the box freezes at least once a week.


----------



## petem23

No luck on the Samsung box. North Olmstead office gave me a sa8300hdc and a new remote ur5u-8780L both of which are absolute junk! The lag on the box is unbelievable. Push guide and 2-3 seconds later it comes up. The software is also different than my old 8300hd with fewer features.

The new remote has to be pointed directly at the box! If your off by a degree or two, nothing. Extremely annoying.


Anyone know how/where i can get the Samsung DVR?


These boxes have been out since 2007. I have paid for this thing 10 times over, you'd think i would be able to get the box i want or at least things that work.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petem23* /forum/post/20981371
> 
> 
> No luck on the Samsung box. North Olmstead office gave me a sa8300hdc and a new remote ur5u-8780L both of which are absolute junk! The lag on the box is unbelievable. Push guide and 2-3 seconds later it comes up. The software is also different than my old 8300hd with fewer features.
> 
> The new remote has to be pointed directly at the box! If your off by a degree or two, nothing. Extremely annoying.
> 
> 
> Anyone know how/where i can get the Samsung DVR?
> 
> 
> These boxes have been out since 2007. I have paid for this thing 10 times over, you'd think i would be able to get the box i want or at least things that work.













I'm not even certain you can use the Samsung Box in your area. I know that in the old "Native" TWC area they were available.


To the best of my knowledge the HDC is the "latest" TWC box. And yes, you could have paid for it several times over but remember that even if you did your average DVR probably goes 5 years IF you're lucky. That's why you rent, right?


Of course you could upgrade to their new whole house system. But don't expect anything new in DVR's, TWC is just going to recycle what they have. They probably are out of Samsung (if available) anyway.


TiVo's and other DVR's are available as well. I didn't get a TiVo just so I could have my own DVR, I thought the SA 8300 was a piece of garbage.


----------



## hookbill

Well over bere in Bainbridge we are enjoying the luxury of a power outage and cable outage. Anybody else? I've been down on power for a couple of hours and cale went out around 6:30.


I do have a natural gas powered generator.


I think power just came on. Yep but still no internet. Modem is flashing like its on. Well thats back too. Nevermind.


----------



## bassguitarman

I see they updated the software recently. Some features such as favorites have changed.


----------



## petem23

So i've had this SA8300 HD box for a few days now. For some reason i dont have all of the menu options I had with the standard 8300HD. Most importantly I have no audio options. I have my tv connected HDMI but my audio receiver is connected via digital coax. Before i had the option under audio settings to choose where to route the audio signal. HDMI, Dolby Digital, or PCM where the options. Now i have no way to send DD to my receiver. Is this a limitation of the box or a software issue? I have unplugged and rebooted to try and get an update or something to try and resolve the issue but that has lead nowhere. Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petem23* /forum/post/21003603
> 
> 
> So i've had this SA8300 HD box for a few days now. For some reason i dont have all of the menu options I had with the standard 8300HD. Most importantly I have no audio options. I have my tv connected HDMI but my audio receiver is connected via digital coax. Before i had the option under audio settings to choose where to route the audio signal. HDMI, Dolby Digital, or PCM where the options. Now i have no way to send DD to my receiver. Is this a limitation of the box or a software issue? I have unplugged and rebooted to try and get an update or something to try and resolve the issue but that has lead nowhere. Any help is much appreciated.



I'm pretty sure that setting is there. I remember seeing it there, there is no way they would not have it on the SA8300 HDC. Go through your settings again and don't look for sound, look for something like Audio and see if it's on Coax. If it is you should be able to just press the up button and it will switch.


Now if you had an SA8000, that was the one before that then that option wouldn't be available. But the first SA8300 definitely had it. I'm sure the HDC does too.


This is something that a CSR can step you through. If you can't find it give them a call. It's got to be there.


----------



## Vchat20

If memory serves, and I don't know if it's changes since I've been with TW, but the HDC boxes have a completely extra menu for some box specific settings compared to the non-HDC boxes where it was all combined into the main Navigator settings menu. I wanna say to get to it you hit the settings button and then hit the 'A' button on the remote (should say on the screen somewhere?)


Another thing to keep in mind is I seem to recall the HDC boxes were bad about retaining settings specifically when it came to running HDMI and audio separate over optical/coax. It would revert to HDMI after soft-cycling the box. Once again, been a while and I'm fuzzy on all of it.


----------



## petem23

Thanks guys. I finally found it. Its under quick settings - devices for some reason. You will find the audio coding, audio d-range, and volume controll in this menu.


----------



## bassguitarman

Since the software update last week I've had to reboot my 8300 box twice and it has rebooted on it own after locking up at least 3 times.

Nice


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/21006701
> 
> 
> Since the software update last week I've had to reboot my 8300 box twice and it has rebooted on it own after locking up at least 3 times.
> 
> Nice



I remember one of the things I use to try to do with mine to get it working right was like a reset or a format. It didn't actually remove any recordings. but it cleaned things up, supposedly. I never could get it working right, I went through 3 of them and they all did the same thing. Miss recordings for no reason.


Anyway there is a page in the DVR section on the front of the forum where on page one they go through a lot of basic procedures. You may want to look at that.


----------



## mgd6912

It looks like I received some sort of software upgrade to my boxes in the Canton, OH area. Does anyone know what it was for or what it entailed? I couldnt find any info on it and this is the first I have heard of the upgrade. I am not sure if I am a fan of it. Seems like the guide goes to SD when you bring it up or my TV is fooled by the guide and tries resizing it. Also, when you cancel a show recording, the box to do so seems to fall off the bottom of the TV. Weird

Thanks for any info you could provide!


mgd


----------



## bassguitarman

Another power cycle this morning. I get up and like only 1 channel works, the rest are blank.


----------



## scnrfrq

Does anyone else hate the new TW Navigator update as much as I do? The screens look like they were designed by a 6 year old, you now need multiple clicks just to get out of the guide, and the worst is how they screwed up the Scheduled Recordings list. It seems that you can't just easily delete shows like you always could before. I've spent the last half hour trying to delete Terra Nova and Homeland (set up as Series), but Navigator keeps them in the list and changes the recording date instead of deleting them. It insists on recording Terra Nova tonite, when it is a rerun from earlier in the week. What a pain!


Anyone have any ideas on how to live with this mess?


----------



## hookbill

Absolutely. Get rid of it and get a TiVo.










With TiVo you can set it up for first run only and there is a "28 day" rule. That means that if the same episode shows up on a season pass anytime after 28 days it won't record it. You can also tell it to skip a recording without canceling the season pass.


Now I'm pretty sure you can do the same thing with Navigator as far as setting up first run programs, but I have no idea why you wouldn't be able to cancel it.


My guess is that maybe it doesn't delete it immediately. The other guess I have as to why Terra Nova would show up when you already recorded it is that it's getting bad guide data from whomever is providing it.


Even my great TiVo has that happen once in a while. You'll see it is going to record a show that isn't suppose to be recorded. Usually it's because either the episode number is missing or it has a generic description of the show, not the description of the episode. However usually TiVo catches that and cancels the recording before it gets to it.


Truth is if you want better performance from a DVR you may have to pay extra for it. I haven't looked for a while but I'd try to find something that uses tru2way in a DVR if there is one available. They are obligated to allow you to use your own DVR if you choose.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21025577
> 
> 
> Does anyone else hate the new TW Navigator update as much as I do? The screens look like they were designed by a 6 year old, you now need multiple clicks just to get out of the guide, and the worst is how they screwed up the Scheduled Recordings list. It seems that you can't just easily delete shows like you always could before. I've spent the last half hour trying to delete Terra Nova and Homeland (set up as Series), but Navigator keeps them in the list and changes the recording date instead of deleting them. It insists on recording Terra Nova tonite, when it is a rerun from earlier in the week. What a pain!
> 
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on how to live with this mess?



Press "List" on the remote, then go to "Series Manager" on the menu list at the bottom of the screen, then select the series that you want to delete or make changes to.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev* /forum/post/21026171
> 
> 
> Press "List" on the remote, then go to "Series Manager" on the menu list at the bottom of the screen, then select the series that you want to delete or make changes to.



I finally did have to go into the series list and delete it there. It still didn't cancel Terra Nova until I went in again and deleted it separately.


Now I see I also have an issue with picture size on 2 of my my TVs. I always had the DVR in Stretch mode before, but now it is cutting off the scrolls on TBS for the playoff games. If I change it to normal, it looks OK. But then non-HD programs don't fill the screen. My 3rd TV is also on stretch, but it still looks OK. Can anyone suggest proper settings? Why would picture size change with a revised Navigator?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21026678
> 
> 
> I finally did have to go into the series list and delete it there. It still didn't cancel Terra Nova until I went in again and deleted it separately.
> 
> 
> Now I see I also have an issue with picture size on 2 of my my TVs. I always had the DVR in Stretch mode before, but now it is cutting off the scrolls on TBS for the playoff games. If I change it to normal, it looks OK. But then non-HD programs don't fill the screen. My 3rd TV is also on stretch, but it still looks OK. Can anyone suggest proper settings? Why would picture size change with a revised Navigator?



This use to be done in set up. You are using the buttons on your TW remote to stretch it. That's not how HD is done.


Setup Wizard. UG-3 Instructions for Advanced Setup Wizard to choose TV type and resolutions, done after the box has received it's initial download from your cableco.

Using Power button on unit (not remote), *turn off power*, then press both GUIDE/INFO at same time.

Choose Easy or Advanced setup - Easy selects 1080i output only - Advanced provides options for TV type (4x3 or 16x9) and user selected outputs.

Follow instructions on the screen. Read instructions carefully. If screen goes blank, it is trying to display a resolution not supported by TV - disable resolution.


Everything you need to know about how to work your DVR is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859 .


That should get you straightened out.


----------



## ClevIndn

Anyone else getting audio-only on the History International / H2 channel (1136)?


Believe it has been this way for a few days.


TiVo user if that makes a difference.


----------



## hookbill

I'm just putting this up here for anybody who may have thought about TiVo. I don't think you can possibly get one cheaper then this, but they do lock you into a whopping $20.00 a month.


I'm not biting, I have lifetime service, it only offers 25 hours more HD record time then my current TiVo's and I have eSATA's on both of them.


But if you want hulu plus, netflix, 1080p, then you might be interested. 1 day only.

http://www3.tivo.com/promo/cascade/c...T.mc_id=EM6031


----------



## its.mike

Your forgot to mention that you have to have a subscription to hulu plus and netflix so that's roughly another $20 a month for both. Plus the cost of the Cable card and tuning adapter.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/21043181
> 
> 
> Your forgot to mention that you have to have a subscription to hulu plus and netflix so that's roughly another $20 a month for both. Plus the cost of the Cable card and tuning adapter.



lol, I didn't forget to mention it, I just thought everyone knew that. Of course netflix, Amazon, all that stuff you see is extra. The only thing that isn't would be YouTube and I think Pandora is free, I'm not certain. But you can't access any of that with any TW DVR, including their new whole house one. This just gives you access to these things on your television. That and it does 1080p.


Like I said it's a good deal if you want TiVo. You can always negotiate a lifetime service with them, thats what I did.


Tuner adapter is free. Cable card is $5.00.


TiVo is a luxury. it's not for someone who has a tight budget, no doubt. And you have to be willing to lose a lot of TWC features like On Demand. I just was passing along word since it's a 1 day deal, nothing more.


----------



## toby10

Pandora has an ad supported free service and is limited to 40 streaming hours per month.

Paid Pandora has no commercials and is unlimited streaming, also offers higher bitrate streams.

I presume Tivo is like any other device and allows access to the free Pandora service.


BTW & OT: Napster is going away being absorbed (purchased by) Rhapsody.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Pandora has an ad supported free service and is limited to 40 streaming hours per month.
> 
> Paid Pandora has no commercials and is unlimited streaming, also offers higher bitrate streams.
> 
> I presume Tivo is like any other device and allows access to the free Pandora service.
> 
> 
> BTW & OT: Napster is going away being absorbed (purchased by) Rhapsody.



40 hour limit is gone


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike_Stuewe* /forum/post/21052547
> 
> 
> 40 hour limit is gone



Great news! Thanks


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21026678
> 
> 
> I finally did have to go into the series list and delete it there. It still didn't cancel Terra Nova until I went in again and deleted it separately.
> 
> 
> Now I see I also have an issue with picture size on 2 of my my TVs. I always had the DVR in Stretch mode before, but now it is cutting off the scrolls on TBS for the playoff games. If I change it to normal, it looks OK. But then non-HD programs don't fill the screen. My 3rd TV is also on stretch, but it still looks OK. Can anyone suggest proper settings? Why would picture size change with a revised Navigator?



Now I'm also having issues with the DVR needing to be rebooted fairly often and the closed captioning hardly works at all. Is no one else having any issues since the Navigator latest release?


----------



## bassguitarman

I reported the same thing a few weeks ago after the last update.

I typically have to reboot the dvr every few days. Besides locking up at times it cant go to any of the channels or sometimes will only go to 1 or 2 channels and the rest are blank.

Seems to occur most often late night and I have lost recordings due to the problem.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman* /forum/post/21065177
> 
> 
> I reported the same thing a few weeks ago after the last update.
> 
> I typically have to reboot the dvr every few days. Besides locking up at times it cant go to any of the channels or sometimes will only go to 1 or 2 channels and the rest are blank.
> 
> Seems to occur most often late night and I have lost recordings due to the problem.



Exactly what I'm experiencing! All of sudden, I only can see a couple locals, and the rest are just blank. Very strange. A reboot is then necessary. It happened again last nite, and I also lost recordings. Glad I'm not alone with this. Way to go, TW!


----------



## hookbill

First, I'll assume both of you have actual HD televisions. Now if you have an HD television and you have it set on the basic 1080i setting, then you will have panels on both sides of the non had programming. If you use the stretch on the remote it will stretch the HD picture beyond the parameter of the HD picture. This will only happen if you use the stretch on the HD. So you need to put the picture back at the normal setting when watching HD.


Really it shouldn't happen at all, my TiVo will not stretch any HD, it knows that's the proper size without me telling it. But I've seen the SA 8300 and I know it does this.


Now this is why I gave you the instructions on setting up HD. That way when you are watching an HD channel you with HD programming you will see it as it is meant to be seen.


If you're watching a SD channel, be it digital or analog then you can set your DVR to show that picture on the proper setting on your television, however you may also have to do the same thing with your television to make it work properly. Depends on the television.


If this was working all fine before you got the update and you have gone through set up again and checked both the television and the DVR, I don't know. I do know that you do not stretch your picture when you are on TBS HD. That will distort the picture and put the logo where you can't see it.


Now as far as these other issues about not having a picture in the instructions I copied it said this: *Read instructions carefully. If screen goes blank, it is trying to display a resolution not supported by TV - disable resolution*.


I'm just going back over the basics here and maybe you're saying yeah, we know all that. If that's the case I can't give you any further help on picture.


A DVR that reboots frequently is usually the sign of either a hard drive that's going bad or a bad power supply. You may have to return it again. As far as night time goes, there might be something to that. Maybe they are making adjustments or doing something at TWC. I don't know. I do know that SDV can cause some issues on my TiVo from time to time. However that's like talking apples and oranges.


My guess with the reboots is with all these old DVR's they got out there it's probably hard drives going out. I have no idea how closely they check these things when someone turns it in.


In any case an update shouldn't be causing all these problems. I'm sorry if I wasn't much help.


One bit of a warning: If you have TWC come out to look at the issue ask if they will charge you something for coming out. They are slipping in $9.95 house visits now and not informing people. If you catch it you can say something and they will take it off, but ask first in case they stop doing that. Comcrap will charge you the same thing if they come out and they don't find anything wrong with your cable. They all are making money anyway they can.


----------



## bassguitarman

My TV displays all resolutions 480,720 and 1080

I had no problems at all until a few weeks ago when the most recent update came through. This update also changed some of the menus and functions and added the favorites menu to the channels display.

Its not a display problem, its like the DVR refuses to decode various channels until a reboot.


----------



## hookbill

Well, maybe Cathode Kid knows what's going on, he's got all the info on all this stuff.


----------



## JetPilot_Mike

I have been all kinds of problems recently with pixilation and stuttering on HD channels. Also, my DVR has been stuttering during almost every recording. Makes watching anything super annoying. I have a 8300HD connected via HDMI to the tv.


----------



## hookbill

I rarely watch live television unless it's the news or sports. I did notice some problems on TBSHD but this was a complete drop off of the picture and sound. I checked other channels and they were fine and after about two minutes it was back up.


But I haven't had issues with recordings, at least nothing worth mentioning. If there is Sunspot activity going on that's usually the cause.


It could be a variety of things. If it's cable then it may be that you are either running hot or not getting enough signal. TWC can fix that. It could be the DVR I suppose too.


You can try getting another DVR or have them do a service call if it doesn't improve.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JetPilot_Mike* /forum/post/21067706
> 
> 
> I have been all kinds of problems recently with pixilation and stuttering on HD channels. Also, my DVR has been stuttering during almost every recording. Makes watching anything super annoying. I have a 8300HD connected via HDMI to the tv.



Right off the bat, try removing the HDMI cable and using YPbPr analog. This will isolate whether the stuttering is happening at the input or output of the box. HDMI has it's own set of issues so it's good to isolate it from the equation. If it still stutters using analog, chances are that your signal is either too hot, too low or distorted. TWC can read your signal levels remotely so it only takes a phone call to have this checked.


Not too familiar with the latest firmware push.


Also sun outage activity ran from October 1st to about October 10th and occurs between around noon - 5:15pm. Sun outages happen every spring and fall and are related to position of sun, earth and satellite dish. Sun spots and CMEs are different and can happen anytime, but they usually affect radio comms and power lines.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/21093128
> 
> 
> Right off the bat, try removing the HDMI cable and using YPbPr analog. This will isolate whether the stuttering is happening at the input or output of the box. HDMI has it's own set of issues so it's good to isolate it from the equation. If it still stutters using analog, chances are that your signal is either too hot, too low or distorted. TWC can read your signal levels remotely so it only takes a phone call to have this checked.
> 
> 
> Not too familiar with the latest firmware push.
> 
> 
> Also sun outage activity ran from October 1st to about October 10th and occurs between around noon - 5:15pm. Sun outages happen every spring and fall and are related to position of sun, earth and satellite dish. Sun spots and CMEs are different and can happen anytime, but they usually affect radio comms and power lines.



Picky picky picky. Sunsposts, sun outages, it has to do with the sun.


Please excuse my lower comprehension on such hi-tech matters, most knowledgeable one.


I'll bet a hundred dollars it's not the HDMI but it's a good idea to test with component cable just to make sure. That's what most of us not so hi-tech common folk refer to YPbPr as.


----------



## Tim Lones

Hi everybody:


Just wanted to invite you all to check out the new (3 weeks old) Cleveland Classic Media Messageboard;;

http://clevelandmedia.boardhost.com/index.php 


Not a lot of activity as yet..This board is related to my Cleveland Classic Media Blog..I have several forums going, including General TV/Radio talk, either vintage or recent..We also talk about recent stories about media as well..


There's also forums for every full-power station in the Cleveland Market, and a place to talk about former stations..


Been wanting to do this for awhile, but more people would make it more fun..


Two things:


1. Just follow the instructions to join..To avoid spam from the outset, I will approve all new members..


2. Any technical TV questions, reception, etc..will be referred to this thread and the Cleveland/OTA Thread at avsforum.com..


Thanks..


----------



## hookbill

TWC has once again increased the price for their services. This time it has come in the form of HBO going from $12 to $14.oo and then they have rolled several of my services into a packadge. Bottom line, my cable bill went up over 8.00.


Something to think about. They said to me that you were informed of this on your last statement, but the wording wasn't cleara all.


So ceck you bills TWC people. Tells us about your price increase.


----------



## bgiese

Anybody else having trouble with "Series Manager" and NBC shows?


For the past couple weeks my NBC shows that I have set to record have not been scheduled by the DVR.

I've had to manually schedule episodes to record. Specifically it has been "The Office" and "Parenthood."


I double checked. Set to record as follows:

New episodes

All showings

Keep up to 5 episodes


I checked and I have plenty of room (approx 50%) of available space.

I have no conflicts.

These shows are at top of priority list.

I'm not at the limit of shows to keep.


Other shows on ALL others networks are recording fine.


The episodes have been NEW and the guide even says they are NEW in the description.


----------



## scnrfrq

Been having a lot of trouble lately with TW with having to reboot my boxes. Most of the channels just disappear with blank screens all of a sudden. Once I reboot, things are OK for a couple days. It started after their last update about a month ago.


Anyone else going thru this?


----------



## stuart628

I have started to switch back to Time warner because of costs of the switchback program which I am told my price WILL NOT go over 130 a month over the next three years for tv and internet, which is amazing to me...anyways I have had zero problems (its only been two weeks I know) and have really really enjoyed the new time warner ( I have been gone for 3-4 years) The look back and Start over programs are working very well and are life savers for people with newborns or kids in general as we always seem to miss some of prime time! I will write more later but I wanted to throw that out there now.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21188715
> 
> 
> Been having a lot of trouble lately with TW with having to reboot my boxes. Most of the channels just disappear with blank screens all of a sudden. Once I reboot, things are OK for a couple days. It started after their last update about a month ago.
> 
> 
> Anyone else going thru this?



My 8300 DVR has been a mess for a few weeks now. We lost many of the series recordings that have been in the box for awhile now and we still have trouble recording when we reprogram the series. I have had this problem in the past with firmware upgrades but this seems more chronic than in the past. I am going to try swapping the box out next. The problem has not affected me much since practically all the shows I had been recording are in the Prime Time On Demand channel selections so I can get to them the next day.


I'm in Mentor,


Ray


----------



## WilliamR

Horrible performance on my TW box in the Macedonia area.


Recorded Glee, while watching the recording there was a scene that the macro blocking got so bad that the entire box froze and nothing worked. tried again and exact same spot froze. Pulled the power again and had to fast forward through that part of the show to get it to work.


I have noticed that a lot of recording at night now are getting lots of blocking, stuttering, and freezes, really ruining the shows. In addition, randomly a show will not record. No rhyme or reason. Just suddenly doesn't record something and there are no conflicts in the listing.


Getting so fed up, but my neighbor has satellite and he has nothing but problems in our area, they are out all the time, so hesitant to switch.


Does TW finally have a new box over this old gray (8300 I think it is)?


----------



## hookbill

WilliamR, Satellite television is so much better then cable there is really no comparison. If your neighbor was having issues it could be due to solar activity, which would also explain your issue during whatever recording you may have been making.


You do get a bit of rain fade but that's only from a real heavy storm. If he's having issues all the time then maybe he needs to get his dish adjusted. Heavy winds and such can cause these thing to move a bit.


As far as DVR goes, we've discussed that many times. Please take the time to read a few pages back.


----------



## hookbill

Well, at least part of my house had a failure. It appears that on my set in the birds room where there are no boxes and TV is hooked up directly to the cable the message went off without a hitch, however my set where the TiVo is hooked up to the big screen got nothing but a grey screen. No message or sound, not even Lady Gaga.










I happened to be on CNNHD when the test occurred, which meant I was on an SDV channel. When the test concluded and programming resumed I heard the tone the my DVR makes when you are searching for something and it finds it. That was sort of odd.


So I'm kind of wondering how other boxes and DVR's did. Was anyone around that had a box or a DVR and what was your experience?


I think it's almost funny that as many years that we've had this, going back to when it was the Emergency Broadcast System this is the first time anyone tried to use it on a national level.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21193449
> 
> 
> WilliamR, Satellite television is so much better then cable there is really no comparison. If your neighbor was having issues it could be due to solar activity, which would also explain your issue during whatever recording you may have been making.
> 
> 
> You do get a bit of rain fade but that's only from a real heavy storm. If he's having issues all the time then maybe he needs to get his dish adjusted. Heavy winds and such can cause these thing to move a bit.
> 
> 
> As far as DVR goes, we've discussed that many times. Please take the time to read a few pages back.



They came out and replaced his dish with a larger dark grey version. Then they have been out twice since with a large ladder on the side of his house.


My parents had satellite last year and the tech had to come out monthly, they always lost picture quality and it was always blamed on rain. We get some serious storms around here. Not sure if the location wasn't idea (picked up the wind) but they got so frustrated they took it out and switched back.


Makes me nervous, I can't take off work that often to wait for a tech to come out but my cable performance makes me want to smash something, I'm getting sooo fed up with this crap.


----------



## bassguitarman

The latest update totally boned up my SA8300 box. Almost unusable. Misses recordings or gets partials with lots of dropouts.

And yes they are raising our rates again.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21193466
> 
> 
> Well, at least part of my house had a failure. It appears that on my set in the birds room where there are no boxes and TV is hooked up directly to the cable the message went off without a hitch, however my set where the TiVo is hooked up to the big screen got nothing but a grey screen. No message or sound, not even Lady Gaga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I happened to be on CNNHD when the test occurred, which meant I was on an SDV channel. When the test concluded and programming resumed I heard the tone the my DVR makes when you are searching for something and it finds it. That was sort of odd.
> 
> 
> So I'm kind of wondering how other boxes and DVR's did. Was anyone around that had a box or a DVR and what was your experience?
> 
> 
> I think it's almost funny that as many years that we've had this, going back to when it was the Emergency Broadcast System this is the first time anyone tried to use it on a national level.




I got home after 11pm last night, took a shower and went to bed. My bedroom TV was stuck on channel 8. I rebooted, pulled plug, and went to bed so I'm not sure if its back or not. There was some emergengy banner moving around the screen when I first turned it on. I could turn the box on and off but notheing else would work.


Ray


----------



## Gary16




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21193466
> 
> 
> So I'm kind of wondering how other boxes and DVR's did. Was anyone around that had a box or a DVR and what was your experience?
> 
> 
> I think it's almost funny that as many years that we've had this, going back to when it was the Emergency Broadcast System this is the first time anyone tried to use it on a national level.



The 8300 HD box on Time Warner was on HD channel 1005. When the test started the box automatically switched to channel 100 and stayed there.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21193630
> 
> 
> They came out and replaced his dish with a larger dark grey version. Then they have been out twice since with a large ladder on the side of his house.
> 
> 
> My parents had satellite last year and the tech had to come out monthly, they always lost picture quality and it was always blamed on rain. We get some serious storms around here. Not sure if the location wasn't idea (picked up the wind) but they got so frustrated they took it out and switched back.
> 
> 
> Makes me nervous, I can't take off work that often to wait for a tech to come out but my cable performance makes me want to smash something, I'm getting sooo fed up with this crap.



I lived in Northern Kentucky near Cincinnati when I had Direct TV and I think that the severe weather we had down there happens more frequently. At the time I didn't have HD, and I had a real sweet set up. I complained that I couldn't get OTA channels with an antenna and they didn't do locals. So they gave me feeds from New York and Los Angeles.


When they got around to giving us the locals they let me keep my other feeds. So while I didn't have the NFL package I did get Jets, Giants, Bengals and Raiders. Sometimes in L.A. they would show either St. Louis (Rams) or San Diego.


Saturday the Ohio State game was on Big 10. It was my birthday so I went to a local establishment and they had a channel unavailable message on all 3 Big 10 channels. Customers were walking out the door left and right, it was a shame.


When I got home I noticed my tuner adapter had the 8 blink thing which means it was in brick mode. 2 days prior to that I had the same thing happen with my other tuner adapter (used with TiVo's) and I called Cable Card Support. They use to work with me and send me a hit and that would fix it. Not anymore. They say they only have 2 people working that desk and we are not suppose to call directly. I know that but I had tried calling TW and I was on hold 20 minutes.


So the guy at Cable Card Support said "the issue regarding the brick mode has been fixed. If you can't get the light to stop flashing then we will have to set up a truck roll." He also said, "I'm looking at your tuner adapter and it looks connected to me. You are probably only seeing 6 blinks and a pause."


I was pretty p.o'd at that time so I asked the jerk if he thought I couldn't count and hung up.


TWC has a lot of issues, that's why I say if I could I'd go to satellite in a heartbeat.


I finally sent an email to my contact and once again she fixed it for me. Ridiculous.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary16* /forum/post/21194027
> 
> 
> The 8300 HD box on Time Warner was on HD channel 1005. When the test started the box automatically switched to channel 100 and stayed there.



I'd say that was a #fail. What if you were recording? I would have had 30 seconds of dead air, that's all.


And I'll bet they aren't even aware of how it worked on TiVo's anyway.


----------



## hookbill

Oh, and to continue with my rant about cable card support when this guy gave me his sob story about only 2 people working that desk nationally (that's true) I said well, if you're that busy how come you picked up on the first ring? He acted like I didn't say anything and kept talking, and I said "look, I pushed the button for a call back about your experience so why don't you cut the crap and lets get this fixed." He changed his attitude but still wouldn't send me out a hit.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21193466
> 
> 
> I happened to be on CNNHD when the test occurred, which meant I was on an SDV channel. When the test concluded and programming resumed I heard the tone the my DVR makes when you are searching for something and it finds it. That was sort of odd.



That's because the STB gets a force-tune command to go to the EAS channel for the alert. When the event is over, your STB goes back to the channel it was viewing previously. This is completely different from the way that analog cable-ready alerts work.


The goal of EAS testing isn't to show the public how well it works; the purpose is to identify the gaps and correct them for the next time. This was the first time in my recollection that a national test was attempted. The results were interesting and enlightening.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/21196987
> 
> 
> 
> The goal of EAS testing isn't to show the public how well it works; the purpose is to identify the gaps and correct them for the next time. This was the first time in my recollection that a national test was attempted. The results were interesting and enlightening.



That's what I said, it was the first time they ever tried it nationally. What I find interesting is considering how long this system (EAS) and it's prior version (EBS) have been around since I was a child, well over 50 years that this was the first test. Now granted EBS was for analog television and radio. Communications are much more complicated today but the idea of no one testing it on a national level prior to this is pretty astounding.


Since this was the first test I'm not surprised that it didn't work that well. It will be interesting to see when they try it again.


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm having trouble with my wonderful?? TM DVR recording Bruce Drennan on STO. I've tried 21, 308, and 1308. It shows it's recording, but it's blank when I try to play it. I also get a message that recording is not allowed??? Anyone else having problems?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21245716
> 
> 
> I'm having trouble with my wonderful?? TM DVR recording Bruce Drennan on STO. I've tried 21, 308, and 1308. It shows it's recording, but it's blank when I try to play it. I also get a message that recording is not allowed??? Anyone else having problems?



I have a couple of minutes so I went there to 1308 and pressed record on my TiVo. It started recording. Went to my now playing list a minute later, pressed play and it was recording just fine.


Edit: I did not insert the link to tivo. It must be built into the software of the forum now.


And now it's gone! How strange.


----------



## WilliamR

I keep getting an issue where when I switch back to the cable input on my TV (from being on another input), I can only see the last channel the cable box was on. Whatever channel I turn it to I get no picture or sound, but I do get the name of the show, the channel number, the description, etc. Guide works, list works, etc. but no picture or sound regardless of the channel. I turn it off and on, same thing, I have to unplug it. Happens often.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21248493
> 
> 
> I keep getting an issue where when I switch back to the cable input on my TV (from being on another input), I can only see the last channel the cable box was on. Whatever channel I turn it to I get no picture or sound, but I do get the name of the show, the channel number, the description, etc. Guide works, list works, etc. but no picture or sound regardless of the channel. I turn it off and on, same thing, I have to unplug it. Happens often.



Are you using the HDMI connections for the TV inputs? If so you may have an HDMI handshake issue with the TV or cable box. Next time it happens try recycling the TV if you are using the HDMI connections and see it that straightens it out. If not it looks like its time to swap out the box.


Ray


----------



## bassguitarman

I think he is having the issue I have had with my 8300 ever since the last software update about a month ago. The only solution I have found is to power cycle the cable box.


----------



## mnowlin

HDMI is evil. In theory, it could be a good thing, but I have not yet found an implementation that doesn't have some sort of problem.


I find it very funny that "reboot your TV" is an acceptable remedy. Haven't we gotten past the days of Windows 1001 BC when you had to reboot your PC after changing the desktop background color?


Although short in days, this has been a long week. Sorry about the rant.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mnowlin* /forum/post/21252783
> 
> 
> HDMI is evil. In theory, it could be a good thing, but I have not yet found an implementation that doesn't have some sort of problem.
> 
> 
> I find it very funny that "reboot your TV" is an acceptable remedy. Haven't we gotten past the days of Windows 1001 BC when you had to reboot your PC after changing the desktop background color?
> 
> 
> Although short in days, this has been a long week. Sorry about the rant.



HDMI is evil? Well, maybe when you use the crap that TWC gives you. Get a quality DVR or even a PC and you won't have that issue.


Back in the days when I used the SA8300 I used HDMI and to the best of my knowledge that was not responsible for it's failure to simply record programs. I even tried component cable and I still had the same issue.


Now their regular digital boxes, they worked just fine. I believe HDMI was available on that as well.


There is nothing wrong about HDMI. Beat the hell out of DVI and component IMHO.


----------



## WilliamR

So I could keep TW if I want, and then just purchase a Tivo, correct? Or am I missing something?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR* /forum/post/21258467
> 
> 
> So I could keep TW if I want, and then just purchase a Tivo, correct? Or am I missing something?



Well, it's not quite that simple. First, TiVo requires a cable card. That would be $5.00 more a month. Then you have to pay for TiVo service, which can run $20.00 a month. However you might be able to purchase lifetime service, that means you would pay around $200.00 and your TiVo service would be paid.


I said "might" be able to. Usually the best way to do this is to purchase a TiVo from TiVo. When you are talking to them tell them that either you get the lifetime service or you're not buying.


The other thing about TiVo is you will need a tuner adapter. The good news about that is it's free. You have to go to their website to order one.


Now the downside of it is that you cannot get pay per view or on demand. TiVo however does give you access to the internet to things like Amazon and Netflix for streaming. Also TiVo has access for You Tube and Pandora.


If you are a big DVR user like I am and you don't mind not having on demand then you might be right for a TiVo. There are other DVR's out there as well but I really don't know anything about them I just know that TiVo's picture quality and reliability far exceed my experiences with the SA 8300.


There are other advantage as well like wish list. TiVo will look for a program, movie, actor, director...whatever you may want. If you like concerts you can set it up for that. Very versatile.


I should also mention that TWC does have their "Whole Home" DVR. I don't know anything about that other then you can use one DVR to play on multiple sets and record up to 4 programs at a time.


----------



## Tim Lones

My wife DVR's Young and The Restless/Bold And the Beautiful every weekday from 12:30-2..A Green Icon shows up on the list of recordings beside these shows on the SA 8300HDC..We're wondering what it means.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21170141
> 
> 
> TWC has once again increased the price for their services. This time it has come in the form of HBO going from $12 to $14.oo and then they have rolled several of my services into a packadge. Bottom line, my cable bill went up over 8.00.
> 
> 
> Something to think about. They said to me that you were informed of this on your last statement, but the wording wasn't cleara all.
> 
> 
> So ceck you bills TWC people. Tells us about your price increase.



Up $15.00 since last month. No premium channels, just Digital Cable, HD DVR, and Internet.


----------



## jwt0001

Just came back to Time Warner after a long absence and was pleasantly surprised by the very good customer service I got (left partly because I was fed up with it!) Installation went quickly with the longer part waiting for the Cablecards to be properly set up. Great job by the installer to deal with all of it. Called today to make changes and spoke to a VERY pleasant CSR.


Here's the problem: I added the variety pack (I missed this on my original order). At this point, the stations aren't coming in yet. Should I assume that I need to call again? I'm using TiVo with cablecards and tuning adapters. I'm getting the other channels with no problem, so it's the new channels for sure that are missing.


----------



## jwt0001

Moot point! Channels are now showing up...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/21275469
> 
> 
> Moot point! Channels are now showing up...



Good. That shouldn't have been an issue.


I'm surprised that you didn't have to jump hoops to get a tuning adapter. Last person I saw had all kinds of issues.


----------



## jwt0001

Only have one so far, even though I ordered 2. I will give it a day or so before I start pushing.


----------



## hookbill

I can't complain when my bill comes in the next month $25.00 less then the previous month. And I'm not going to call for an explanation but here's what I saw this month.


For some reason TWC gave me a $9.95 credit on turbo road runner last month. I wasn't billed twice so I don't know why they did that but I'll take it. This month turbo road runner was on the bill but the charge was 0.00. Lower taxes and fees and I'm paying $25.00 less this month then last month.


Go figure. If anyone else sees a drop similar let me know.


----------



## jwt0001

Finally have my 2nd tuning adapter and all is good.


----------



## Goldenager62

We had a update last night in the Elyria area, now I have channels not coming in, "try again later" and freezing.

I have call it in to Time Warner.


----------



## bgiese

Same thing with my DVR in North Ridgeville. The firmware update that was pushed out this morning is a mess!


----------



## GregF2

Got the update in Amherst too. No problems so far.... What are the changes, as I don't notice anything different?


----------



## jwt0001

Hook or any other cable card subscribers:


Can a TiVo user subscribe to a sports package like MLB or nba?


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill

Yes, absolutely. Just make sure that when they set up the billing its to your cable card (s) not the tuner adapter. That caused me a lot of headaches this year. Previous years it was never a problem.


----------



## scnrfrq

TW has a new URL for channel change info:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/Midwe...nelchange.html


----------



## its.mike

Anyone know if RSNX is just an overflow channel or is it going to be the TWC Sports channel?


----------



## jwt0001

Anyone having problems with ESPN tonight?


----------



## jwt0001

Time Warner is running commercials that access to HBO Go will be available in mid-January.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jwt0001* /forum/post/21418058
> 
> 
> Time Warner is running commercials that access to HBO Go will be available in mid-January.



About time. Not that it matters to me, I don't use my iPad for anything but wifi in the house. But everyone else had it.


Now here's what's weird. I thought HBO was owned by Time Warner. At least they use to be, I remember when every "New" Saturday movies was always a 20th Century Fox film. Also owned by TW. So why the delay?


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21418386
> 
> 
> Now here's what's weird. I thought HBO was owned by Time Warner. At least they use to be, I remember when every "New" Saturday movies was always a 20th Century Fox film. Also owned by TW. So why the delay?



Time Warner Cable was split off as a separate company nearly three years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner_Cable 



> Quote:
> Originally controlled by Time Warner, that company spun out the cable operations in March 2009 as part of a larger restructuring. Since then, Time Warner Cable has been an entirely independent company, merely continuing to use the Time Warner and Road Runner brands under license. Time Warner Cable does own several local news and sports channels, but it no longer has any corporate affiliation with national cable channels such as CNN or HBO, which remain the property of the original Time Warner.


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm getting an increasing number of missed recordings on my TW 8300HD. All the log says is Setup was Unable to Record. Anyone else seeing this problem?


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21424482
> 
> 
> I'm getting an increasing number of missed recordings on my TW 8300HD. All the log says is Setup was Unable to Record. Anyone else seeing this problem?



My 8300 box was missing recordings and also had some bad "reception" problems on several local channels so I finnaly swapped it out while home over the holidays. I have a Cisco 8650? DVR now that seems to work fine.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21424482
> 
> 
> I'm getting an increasing number of missed recordings on my TW 8300HD. All the log says is Setup was Unable to Record. Anyone else seeing this problem?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina* /forum/post/21433825
> 
> 
> My 8300 box was missing recordings and also had some bad "reception" problems on several local channels so I finnaly swapped it out while home over the holidays. I have a Cisco 8650? DVR now that seems to work fine.
> 
> 
> Ray



Saw it so often that I spent a thousand dollars on a TiVo. They are much cheaper now, but I had 3 of those DVR's and all 3 did the same thing.


----------



## hookbill

Just like everyone else, I feel the pinch of costs. My wife who is actually home today also has an apartment in Virginia because that's where her job is. The building she lives in had a rate increase and they raised her rent to 1385.00 from 1185.00 Well, things in that area go by a market basis and by waiting a bit she was able to get a rate of 1260.00. Still, another expense.


So MLB Extra Innings is out for me this year and I also decided, sadly, to drop HBO and Showtime. That's 25.00 a month. So when I called the CSR said didn't sound like I really wanted to do it, I said no, I didn't but I have to. Then she fiddled around a bit and said, "How about you keep both of them and I'll give you a credit of 12.35 per month for 1 year?"


This isn't the first time I have got a reduced rate offer from them but the first in several years. I think the last time when the discount fell off I called and said I was going to cancel and they said, sorry to hear that. But that was the whole service. They called my bluff.


I don't know how they decide to do it, I'm not the first to have it happen many others have talked about it but it doesn't hurt to ask. Give it a try. If you get lucky, let us know.


----------



## bgiese

I'm having missed recordings on both my DVRs.


I'm rebooting both DVRs to see if it fixes the problem.


----------



## hookbill

I tried rebooting, reformating. I had the old SARA software, It seemed like Navigator had less problems.


No matter how you slice or dice it those DVR's are a real piece of garbage. You might want to see if a Samsung is available, or upgrade to the whole house DVR. You don't see a lot of iot anymore but people complained about that DVR for years.


FYI there is a thread on SA 8300 which does have tips and information. Go to the Forum page and look under DVR's. There is suggestions and insturctions. I tried them, none of them worked for me.


----------



## Daniel Eddy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm having missed recordings on both my DVRs.
> 
> 
> I'm rebooting both DVRs to see if it fixes the problem.



If you have the 8300, you should switch it out with a different DVR. With the latest software update there has been some hard drive communication issues. I was missing recordings and could not access the online DVR manager.


----------



## speedyd718

Alright, so I know this is a TWC thread but does anyone in here by chance have experience with the WOW service?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/21501782
> 
> 
> Alright, so I know this is a TWC thread but does anyone in here by chance have experience with the WOW service?



WOW has been very reliable for me for years. Digital cable TV + premiums, hs internet, two VOIP lines. Never regretted going with WOW.

How WOW compares to TWC in price, service, reliability I cannot say.


----------



## skatingn330

Hello local clevelanders


I live in Mentor and i currently only subscribe to twc's broadband Internet. I also have my tv's hooked up to the same cable feed that my broadband data comes in on and I get all the local basics (NBA, ABC,FOX, PBS...) and I used to get all the basic cable channels in SD (ESPN, MTV, COMEDY CENTRAL, HGTV...) as well, but they recently disappeared last Friday.


I also asked my Parent that live in Ravenna Ohio if they still get all those basic channels unencrypted SD channels and they lost theirs too. They only get the local basics too. They actually have a HD DVR and pay for tv service.


So if anyone has the same happening or can shed some light on the situation it'd be great.


Thanks


----------



## skatingn330

Never mind, I got a notice saying they did a audit and found out my address was getting services I never subscribed for so they cut it.... Sucks.


----------



## seatacboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skatingn330* /forum/post/21503511
> 
> 
> Never mind, I got a notice saying they did a audit and found out my address was getting services I never subscribed for so they cut it.... Sucks.



You weren't paying for cable TV, so why are you complaining now that your "free TV" service has ended?


----------



## hookbill

Hey this is weird. Had a power blackout and an analog channel froze. No box, I think its channel 66 Nickolodeon. or 65. Cartoon network and all the other ones are working. How the heck could that happen? Anything I can do?


Edit: Must be a TWC thing, Animal Planet, TLC, and Nick seem to be frozen.


----------



## Inundated

There have been frozen analog channels on my setup (also no box). Usually clusters. They usually unfreeze at some point...it doesn't happen often.


Meanwhile, in our TWC outpost (former Adelphia/Cuyahoga Valley), some of the PSIP has disappeared for the free HD QAM local channels.


No more 19.1/19.2/25.1/25.2 etc. on RF 75. You have to go to RF 75 and tune them in manually. All the other locals are fine.


----------



## Inundated

Nevermind on that QAM problem...it's back to normal, tonight...


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/21508599
> 
> 
> There have been frozen analog channels on my setup (also no box). Usually clusters. They usually unfreeze at some point...it doesn't happen often.



Channels pass through a D-->A stage in groups at the hub. These devices have framebuffers in them, hence the frozen screens when they have trouble.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Inundated* /forum/post/21508599
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, in our TWC outpost (former Adelphia/Cuyahoga Valley), some of the PSIP has disappeared for the free HD QAM local channels.
> 
> 
> No more 19.1/19.2/25.1/25.2 etc. on RF 75. You have to go to RF 75 and tune them in manually. All the other locals are fine.



WVIZ PSIP is being worked on.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid* /forum/post/21514113
> 
> 
> WVIZ PSIP is being worked on.



It's fixed now, at least here.


WOIO and Me-TV were in there, too, they're also both fine now. RF 75 carries a LOT.


----------



## Immobilizer

I've got twc cable tv and internet in Cleveland heights -- if I drop the tv subscription, can I still get the local channels in hd through my cable box? Or do I need an antenna?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Immobilizer* /forum/post/21597336
> 
> 
> I've got twc cable tv and internet in Cleveland heights -- if I drop the tv subscription, can I still get the local channels in hd through my cable box? Or do I need an antenna?



You don't need a cable box if the TWC service is internet-only--you just connect the cable modem to the cable outlet in the wall. Why would you even have a cable box if you discontinue your TWC cable service?


----------



## Immobilizer

I didn't realize twc retrieves the box after a customer cancels cable tv. Time to buy an antenna


----------



## Vchat20

Not to mention once you cancel your service, they send a hit to the box to disable it anyways. Or at least most times they do/should. So the cable box would be useless anyways.


Good thing is if your TV has a ClearQAM tuner (Anything made within the past couple years does, farther back most do) you should be able to hook it up to the cable line directly evem after you cancel your TV service with them and receive at least all your Locals in HD, some subchannels (depends on what they leave on there. Been a few years since I tried but in the Legacy area there was at least WKYC's weather subchannel that I distinctly remember, possibly more), analog basic channels that are still left, and even some digital non-local channels if you are lucky. Only downside to this is you miss a number of OTA subchannels so if that is a big thing for you, go with the antenna. TWC also tends to shift the ClearQAM locations every so often, but if memory serves it was somewhere in the realm of every year or two, every 6 months at the worst. All this means is if one day one of your local HD channels goes missing you just have to rescan your channels.


Caveat: This all depends on the possibility they don't come out and trap the line once you cancel tv service. A lot of techs are real lazy on this and don't.


----------



## Immobilizer

What is "trapping" the line?


----------



## Vchat20

Basically they put a little device on your incoming cable line that blocks most of the TV frequencies while leaving those used for internet intact so all that your devices can retrieve is internet service and no cable TV.


----------



## Mike_Stuewe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to mention once you cancel your service, they send a hit to the box to disable it anyways. Or at least most times they do/should. So the cable box would be useless anyways.
> 
> 
> Good thing is if your TV has a ClearQAM tuner (Anything made within the past couple years does, farther back most do) you should be able to hook it up to the cable line directly evem after you cancel your TV service with them and receive at least all your Locals in HD, some subchannels (depends on what they leave on there. Been a few years since I tried but in the Legacy area there was at least WKYC's weather subchannel that I distinctly remember, possibly more), analog basic channels that are still left, and even some digital non-local channels if you are lucky. Only downside to this is you miss a number of OTA subchannels so if that is a big thing for you, go with the antenna. TWC also tends to shift the ClearQAM locations every so often, but if memory serves it was somewhere in the realm of every year or two, every 6 months at the worst. All this means is if one day one of your local HD channels goes missing you just have to rescan your channels.
> 
> 
> Caveat: This all depends on the possibility they don't come out and trap the line once you cancel tv service. A lot of techs are real lazy on this and don't.



This happened to me when I cancelled cox a few years ago in Parma. Wish I would have known that and cancelled well before moving


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm sick and tired of both of my TW 8300HD boxes missing recordings every day. I keep getting "Set-top was unable to record this program." I can't depend on them ever to record all my shows for sure. $220/month for this???


I've kept the boxes because I use external drives with them, and I do record a lot of shows. Has anyone been able to solve this problem? What other TW DVR's do you recommend, that also have large hard drives?


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21665312
> 
> 
> I'm sick and tired of both of my TW 8300HD boxes missing recordings every day. I keep getting "Set-top was unable to record this program." I can't depend on them ever to record all my shows for sure. $220/month for this???
> 
> 
> I've kept the boxes because I use external drives with them, and I do record a lot of shows. Has anyone been able to solve this problem? What other TW DVR's do you recommend, that also have large hard drives?



Just got signature home with whole house Cisco boxes. Double the recording space. Loving the 50mbit downloads too.


----------



## scnrfrq

I got a replacement 8300HD today, and there is no Caller ID listed in Settings, like my other 2 boxes. How do I get it to appear on this box?


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21672787
> 
> 
> I got a replacement 8300HD today, and there is no Caller ID listed in Settings, like my other 2 boxes. How do I get it to appear on this box?



On my WOW service "Caller ID to TV" setup and management is an actual ch you tune too, not in the DVR menus itself.

Find out if that is the same for you and what ch to tune in.


----------



## scnrfrq

Does anyone else have a problem with their 8300 where the red recording light goes off and on intermittently? Makes it hard to know whether something is recording or not. This is my 2nd 8300HD and it does the same thing.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10* /forum/post/21675883
> 
> 
> On my WOW service "Caller ID to TV" setup and management is an actual ch you tune too, not in the DVR menus itself.
> 
> Find out if that is the same for you and what ch to tune in.



I had to call TW, and they activated it from their end.


----------



## hookbill

No body here since 2/21? Sad.


Anyway I just looked at TWC lineup because I was positive that WGN was available in HD. It still is not.


----------



## speedyd718

Wondered what happened to this thread. I figured I'd report that I had a cablecard and tuning adapter installed for my tivo last week. Install went smooth, after the installer left, and I promptly called the cablecard support line.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/21767924
> 
> 
> Wondered what happened to this thread. I figured I'd report that I had a cablecard and tuning adapter installed for my tivo last week. Install went smooth, after the installer left, and I promptly called the cablecard support line.



If it went smooth, why did you call cable card support? When I call them they ***** and moan about they only have one guy now for the whole country, yaddi yaddi ya ya. He refused to send a hit to my box, told me he would arrange a truck roll. I don't remember what I said back but I know it wasn't OK, have a good evening.


----------



## hookbill

You guys all know I have someone at TWC that I usually will report my problems too but you know I hate to keep bothering her. However 2 or 3 weeks ago TWC must have done something because I could see the downstairs box and rebooted. The message "a tuner adapter is attached" when I turned it on and both cards were on the same channel. Everything worked OK but when I got upstairs I got the 8 blinks and a pause (I'm bricked) message. Emailed her and didn't get a response so I tried everything. Sometimes it looked like it was taking, I got the loading channels message but then it would brick. She sent me a hit, fixed it right up.


I think she's given me personal service for around 6 years now, maybe 7. I asked her who I can write so she could receive well deserved credit. She said just email the company. First response was not encouraging they said "our CSR." But it did get where it was suppose to go eventually.


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21768257
> 
> 
> If it went smooth, why did you call cable card support? When I call them they ***** and moan about they only have one guy now for the whole country, yaddi yaddi ya ya. He refused to send a hit to my box, told me he would arrange a truck roll. I don't remember what I said back but I know it wasn't OK, have a good evening.



LOL, I was being sarcastic. I'd researched before about cablecard installs and knew what to expect. The installer had never done a cablecard, and wasn't even suppose to be my installer. Apparently his buddy gave him my appt. Then the call he puts into TWC to activate things ends up with a lady who also had never worked with cablecards. So after they half assed the install I let him know I'd be fine from there. I called the support number, and got great service. It is unfortunate that they work solo.


----------



## hookbill

Most of the time I have got great support from Cable Card Support, but I think there is one guy there that gets a hair up his butt if you call in directly. I assume that my phone number comes up but that will happen if TWC drops you off over there anyway.


You sound like you know what you're doing but I have to ask, you did get a tuner adapter right?


Enjoy your TiVo. I'll assume you got a premeir, if you have an iPhone, iPad, or Android there's an app to fool around with. Mine doesn't do anything but work as a remote control.


One last thing. If you do decide to get a sporting subscription make sure that they use your cable card and not your TA as the billed device. I've been getting MLB Extra Innings for years but the last two with SDV being introduced there was some problems. I decided this year to get a Roku and use that to watch MLB. You get more games when you buy from MLB.com and you can choose which announcer you want. All games are in HD, not so for cable.


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21769620
> 
> 
> Most of the time I have got great support from Cable Card Support, but I think there is one guy there that gets a hair up his butt if you call in directly. I assume that my phone number comes up but that will happen if TWC drops you off over there anyway.
> 
> 
> You sound like you know what you're doing but I have to ask, you did get a tuner adapter right?
> 
> 
> Enjoy your TiVo. I'll assume you got a premeir, if you have an iPhone, iPad, or Android there's an app to fool around with. Mine doesn't do anything but work as a remote control.
> 
> 
> One last thing. If you do decide to get a sporting subscription make sure that they use your cable card and not your TA as the billed device. I've been getting MLB Extra Innings for years but the last two with SDV being introduced there was some problems. I decided this year to get a Roku and use that to watch MLB. You get more games when you buy from MLB.com and you can choose which announcer you want. All games are in HD, not so for cable.



I'm only informed because of this thread. I do have a Premiere, that I bought 9mo ago when I dropped TWC. I had moved into a house to rent and we needed the bill relief. So we used it with the awesome ota antenna on the roof. I made certain to note of all the trouble with the Tivo installs, and most importantly that support number.


I had to wait a week after the cablecard install to get the tuning adapter. In that mean time I used a SA8300HD, and my gosh I had forgotten how terrible the interface and guide are. It makes the Tivo seem like quad-core speeds. I'm never going back to that crap box. I'll check out the apps for the phones too. Thanks, your info has been a huge help.


----------



## hookbill

Yes, the SA 8300 even with the updated software is still a pos. Glad to see someone actually doing their homework before asking questions. If you have any other you can pm me or post.


----------



## scnrfrq

Anyone seeing this new issue? When I try to set up some shows for future recording in the Guide, I get the message "Unable to Record Now - Try Again Later." And of course later makes no difference - I can't record these shows. Never saw this message before until last week. One more "improvement" from TW??


----------



## scnrfrq

Has anyone tried to watch videos of shows on TNT.com, and found out you have to unlock them by using a password from your cable provider? Problem is, TW is not a listed company. Even though TNT is owned by TW??? I asked the TW rep on chat, and they said "We don't support TNT services" Yikes - and this makes sense to them??


----------



## smoti17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21768312
> 
> 
> The message "a tuner adapter is attached" when I turned it on and both cards were on the same channel. Everything worked OK but when I got upstairs I got the 8 blinks and a pause (I'm bricked) message. Emailed her and didn't get a response so I tried everything. Sometimes it looked like it was taking, I got the loading channels message but then it would brick. She sent me a hit, fixed it right up.



My tuning adapter spends about a week a month in this state. The first time I called them they sent out a tech who had no idea what a tuning adapter was. Then they sent out another tech who said that "my box did not have an 'instance', and eventually he got it reset after ages on the phone. I have better things to do than keep calling them for hits, assuming I'm even in town.


Each time it happens I try all permutations of resetting, power-cycling, and unplugging the TA and the TiVo but it never makes any difference. It generally comes back eventually, but soon eventually is going to be too late for all the recordings I keep missing and I'm just going to finally dump these clowns.


Open to any suggestions short of moving to a Comcast area...


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smoti17* /forum/post/21795890
> 
> 
> My tuning adapter spends about a week a month in this state. The first time I called them they sent out a tech who had no idea what a tuning adapter was. Then they sent out another tech who said that "my box did not have an 'instance', and eventually he got it reset after ages on the phone. I have better things to do than keep calling them for hits, assuming I'm even in town.
> 
> 
> Each time it happens I try all permutations of resetting, power-cycling, and unplugging the TA and the TiVo but it never makes any difference. It generally comes back eventually, but soon eventually is going to be too late for all the recordings I keep missing and I'm just going to finally dump these clowns.
> 
> 
> Open to any suggestions short of moving to a Comcast area...



It happened just a couple of days ago as well. Both of my TiVo's had that tuner adapter is connected message. Fortunately neither tuner adapter bricked.


I think that they do something that causes the tuner adapters to reset. What that is I don't know, perhaps it changes the channel list. Now the problem is that when you call Cable Card Support there is at least one guy there who will tell you that the issue with brick has been resolved. He even suggested that I probably was seeing 6 blinks and a pause. I'm like, are you serious? You don't think I can count? He then tells me that he will assist me by sending a truck out.


All he needed to do was send me a hit but he absolutely refused to do it, I asked him several times.


Now I happen to know that cable card support is ran by only a couple of people. Once they told me the best time to call was on Wednesday as they had 4 people at the desk at that time but that was before they "fixed" the issue concerning brick mode.It's crazy, really.


IMHO TiVo really needs to deliver Tru2Way. If they would do that we wouldn't need cable cards (I think) or a tuner adapter. TiVo does offer some internet stuff but my Roku offers more. I think TiVo should offer things like MLB, NFL, NBA etc withut using the cable company, offer it via Internet. Until TiVo changes, we are stuck.


----------



## tstel

Checking in with the gurus on some items that TWC are confusing me about:


1 - Is there a minimum cable TV package that must be purchased to receive broadband internet service (in NE Ohio obviously)? In the past (5+ years ago when I signed up), I was told that if I didn't have at least the first tier of non-basic service then all internet access would be disabled as well. I'm reasonably sure that's not true anymore, if it ever was, but wanted to see if someone else had zero (or non-STB basic) cable TV but a working cable internet from them?


2 - I just ended up with my first HD-capable television, and when I hooked it up to the normal coax (without the non-HD STB that I have) I am able to get the clear QAM channels reliably. I was glad to see it, but then I did a full channel scan and saw 10-15 additional HD channels (A&E, ABC Family, Animal Planet, etc.). I marked them all as "favorites", but over time those channels have disappeared either due to "weak/scrambled signal" messages, or the channel itself refuses to appear when dialing through. Direct entry of the virtual channel number shunts me to the nearest available one instead of the one I enter on the remote; this can happen in the space of five minutes, basically if I switch off a channel there's no guarantee I'll be able to get it back. Anyone know of any explanations for this weird behavior?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## oriolesmagic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21795364
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to watch videos of shows on TNT.com, and found out you have to unlock them by using a password from your cable provider? Problem is, TW is not a listed company. Even though TNT is owned by TW??? I asked the TW rep on chat, and they said "We don't support TNT services" Yikes - and this makes sense to them??



Time Warner and Time Warner Cable aren't the same company anymore.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tstel* /forum/post/21813809
> 
> 
> Checking in with the gurus on some items that TWC are confusing me about:
> 
> 
> 1 - Is there a minimum cable TV package that must be purchased to receive broadband internet service (in NE Ohio obviously)? In the past (5+ years ago when I signed up), I was told that if I didn't have at least the first tier of non-basic service then all internet access would be disabled as well. I'm reasonably sure that's not true anymore, if it ever was, but wanted to see if someone else had zero (or non-STB basic) cable TV but a working cable internet from them?



At first I thought no but truth is that if you had just internet you would be able to access their basic service. So probably.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tstel* /forum/post/21813809
> 
> 
> 2 - I just ended up with my first HD-capable television, and when I hooked it up to the normal coax (without the non-HD STB that I have) I am able to get the clear QAM channels reliably. I was glad to see it, but then I did a full channel scan and saw 10-15 additional HD channels (A&E, ABC Family, Animal Planet, etc.). I marked them all as "favorites", but over time those channels have disappeared either due to "weak/scrambled signal" messages, or the channel itself refuses to appear when dialing through. Direct entry of the virtual channel number shunts me to the nearest available one instead of the one I enter on the remote; this can happen in the space of five minutes, basically if I switch off a channel there's no guarantee I'll be able to get it back. Anyone know of any explanations for this weird behavior?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Certain Qam channels are changed from time to time by TW. Probably because they want you to purchase their product.


----------



## speedyd718




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tstel* /forum/post/21813809
> 
> 
> Checking in with the gurus on some items that TWC are confusing me about:
> 
> 
> 1 - *Is there a minimum cable TV package that must be purchased to receive broadband internet service (in NE Ohio obviously)?* In the past (5+ years ago when I signed up), I was told that if I didn't have at least the first tier of non-basic service then all internet access would be disabled as well. I'm reasonably sure that's not true anymore, if it ever was, but wanted to see if someone else had zero (or non-STB basic) cable TV but a working cable internet from them?
> 
> 
> 2 - I just ended up with my first HD-capable television, and when I hooked it up to the normal coax (without the non-HD STB that I have) I am able to get the clear QAM channels reliably. I was glad to see it, but then I did a full channel scan and saw 10-15 additional HD channels (A&E, ABC Family, Animal Planet, etc.). I marked them all as "favorites", but over time those channels have disappeared either due to "weak/scrambled signal" messages, or the channel itself refuses to appear when dialing through. Direct entry of the virtual channel number shunts me to the nearest available one instead of the one I enter on the remote; this can happen in the space of five minutes, basically if I switch off a channel there's no guarantee I'll be able to get it back. Anyone know of any explanations for this weird behavior?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I can definitely confirm that you can have high speed internet without tv service. I just got done doing it for about 10mo. What they will do is send someone out, and they put a trap on the line (up at the pole). The trap blocks tv, but allows internet. HTH


----------



## speedyd718

Hey hookbill,


TWC added a new kids channel Disney Junior. According to their programming notice (and channel guide) it's located on channel 110. I don't see it on my guide though. Does the tuning adapter have to be updated with the channel location? If so can the cablecard support folks help with that? Thanks for your insight.


----------



## tstel

Thanks for the confirmation on Internet-only!


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tstel* /forum/post/21813809
> 
> 
> Checking in with the gurus on some items that TWC are confusing me about:
> 
> 
> 2 - I just ended up with my first HD-capable television, and when I hooked it up to the normal coax (without the non-HD STB that I have) I am able to get the clear QAM channels reliably. I was glad to see it, but then I did a full channel scan and saw 10-15 additional HD channels (A&E, ABC Family, Animal Planet, etc.). I marked them all as "favorites", but over time those channels have disappeared either due to "weak/scrambled signal" messages, or the channel itself refuses to appear when dialing through. Direct entry of the virtual channel number shunts me to the nearest available one instead of the one I enter on the remote; this can happen in the space of five minutes, basically if I switch off a channel there's no guarantee I'll be able to get it back. Anyone know of any explanations for this weird behavior?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!



You've either found some channels that are encrypted or are SDV. An SDV channel is only present when a STB has requested it. If a particular SDV stream is no longer being watched, it will time out and disappear, relinquishing that bandwidth for another SDV selection.


QAM tuners very in terms of how they interpret encrypted channels. Some will add those channels to the channel map when scanning, but others have enough intelligence to recognize and skip encrypted channels.


The only clear-qam channels you can always count on are the broadcast channels.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/21665312
> 
> 
> I'm sick and tired of both of my TW 8300HD boxes missing recordings every day. I keep getting "Set-top was unable to record this program." I can't depend on them ever to record all my shows for sure. $220/month for this???
> 
> 
> I've kept the boxes because I use external drives with them, and I do record a lot of shows. Has anyone been able to solve this problem? What other TW DVR's do you recommend, that also have large hard drives?



Update - I posted this on the TW Direct Forum, and they arranged for a tech visit. He was very helpful. He checked my signal levels and they were OK outside the house. He checked all of my TV's and replaced several cables. He also added a whole house amplifier and so far everything is working well.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speedyd718* /forum/post/21816560
> 
> 
> Hey hookbill,
> 
> 
> TWC added a new kids channel Disney Junior. According to their programming notice (and channel guide) it's located on channel 110. I don't see it on my guide though. Does the tuning adapter have to be updated with the channel location? If so can the cablecard support folks help with that? Thanks for your insight.



You can see guide info but you won't get guide data. If I recall correctly I saw that one added.


There is a link that you can report missing channels at TiVo site. http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/...neup_tool.html


----------



## pbarach

Last night I was set to record two AMCHD programs on my SA8300HDC DVR. About halfway through one of the programs, I was not watching TV but noticed that the red RECORD light wasn't illuminated. I turned on the DVR and looked at the list of programs, which listed the name of the show that was supposed to be getting recorded, with the little "REC" logo next to it. I then tuned to the AMCHD channel and got a screen saving "AMCHD not available." Something like this hasn't happened for well over a year. The program was "The Killing," and I highly doubt I was one of the only people in the area wanting that channel (1277) to see the show. Later in the evening, I went back to that channel and found it was back, so I programmed the DVR to record later viewings of those shows, and they recorded as expected.


Anybody else have this happen?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/21859356
> 
> 
> Last night I was set to record two AMCHD programs on my SA8300HDC DVR. About halfway through one of the programs, I was not watching TV but noticed that the red RECORD light wasn't illuminated. I turned on the DVR and looked at the list of programs, which listed the name of the show that was supposed to be getting recorded, with the little "REC" logo next to it. I then tuned to the AMCHD channel and got a screen saving "AMCHD not available." Something like this hasn't happened for well over a year. The program was "The Killing," and I highly doubt I was one of the only people in the area wanting that channel (1277) to see the show. Later in the evening, I went back to that channel and found it was back, so I programmed the DVR to record later viewings of those shows, and they recorded as expected.
> 
> 
> Anybody else have this happen?



Sure, or something similar. If the channel isn't available then it can't record anything.


I frequently have an issue with Spyke on my oldest TiVo. I think it's just a matter of either the tune adapter doesn't change to the channel fast enough because it's SDV or my TiVo is slow following up. On my TiVo DVR whenever I change to a switched digital channel there is like a short pause, probably a handshaking event. If it doesn't go off right it looks like the show is being recorded but all I have is a blank grey screen. Once I stop the recording and go back to the channel live, there's the picture. Weird.


But yes, I've seen times when a channel isn't on line and there is no recording.


----------



## kevin120




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21859397
> 
> 
> Sure, or something similar. If the channel isn't available then it can't record anything.
> 
> 
> I frequently have an issue with Spyke on my oldest TiVo. I think it's just a matter of either the tune adapter doesn't change to the channel fast enough because it's SDV or my TiVo is slow following up. On my TiVo DVR whenever I change to a switched digital channel there is like a short pause, probably a handshaking event. If it doesn't go off right it looks like the show is being recorded but all I have is a blank grey screen. Once I stop the recording and go back to the channel live, there's the picture. Weird.
> 
> 
> But yes, I've seen times when a channel isn't on line and there is no recording.



I have always wondered why you guys with SA/Cisco systems are having SDV problems like this. My Motorola area has some issues with iGuide and SDV where the box will lose contact with SDV server IP addess and you either have to reboot the box or wait for the channels to come back I honestly think that issue that the box misses an arp request for feedback saying that it is connected to the server and the server releases the connection and the box loses contact with the server. And then there is the mystery 12-6am outages with the box losing random SDV channels late at night for no reason unless they are performing maintence. I have seen what is like to see channels go from Broadcast to SDV and takes a little while as the channel goes off air and later it reappers as an SDV channel seen it happen twice once in 2010 when SDV went live in my hub and last year when they moved a ton SD channels to SDV to make room for 8 more SDV QAMs per node for a total of 24 SDV QAMs for the SDV pool. I am sure my area can still add more SDV channels without needing to move more to SDV as we currently only have 116 SDV HD channels and about 150-200 SD channels switched on an 860MHz system.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21859397
> 
> 
> Sure, or something similar. If the channel isn't available then it can't record anything.
> 
> 
> I frequently have an issue with Spyke on my oldest TiVo. I think it's just a matter of either the tune adapter doesn't change to the channel fast enough because it's SDV or my TiVo is slow following up.



I don't have Tivo or a tune adapter, and I thought SDV would make a channel unavailable if few people were trying to tune to a channel. But I find it hard to believe that nobody in the Cleveland suburbs wanted to watch the highly touted season opener of The Killing. And I have seen _zero_ problems with "channel not available" messages in many, many months.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach* /forum/post/21859910
> 
> 
> I don't have Tivo or a tune adapter, and I thought SDV would make a channel unavailable if few people were trying to tune to a channel. But I find it hard to believe that nobody in the Cleveland suburbs wanted to watch the highly touted season opener of The Killing. And I have seen _zero_ problems with "channel not available" messages in many, many months.



What it does is basically lock the channel up, at least that's what I see. I know that SDV isn't just for one individual channel but for a group of channels. So if you have a lot of people say on Spike and True is on the same group then True will stay on.


And it does it by polling. How that works exactly Cathode Kid would have to explain if he knows. I don't have a clue.


SDV didn't cause that channel to go down. Something else did, maybe a technical issue coming out of your head end. Hard to say.


----------



## hookbill

I tried to turn on MLBnet HD this morning and I see the message saying TiVo does not receive this channel or something similar. Looked at my Tuner Adapter and saw that green light flashing 8 times and a pause. Started towards my computer area and thought maybe I should check upstairs too. Yep, same thing up there too.


Sent an email out and didn't get a response. After 3 hours I sent another message saying If she's busy I'll call customer service, after all it's Sunday and everything.


So I waited an hour and didn't hear from her. I decided then to call customer service. Now sometimes you get reps here in the U.S. other times you can get reps in other countries. I personally have a problem with CSR in other countries. Not only do you have the lack of understanding with the English issue but they usually waste a half hour of my time before turning me over to an American CSR.


So I got a non American rep on the phone and admittedly copped an attitude. The guy put me on hold and I thought "Here we go." He ask me to unplug the device. I'd already done all those tricks so I said yes, ah, ha...etc. So then he said he sent a hit out to me. I'm surprised by that right there and I go upstairs and yes, the light is solid. I did have to unplug the USB and plug it back in to get it going but wow, and I'm starting to feel like a real jerk. Downstairs I see a solid light but still no access to SDV so I unplug that and did not see the channel download but I was tuned to MLBnet and it came on.


I thanked him for his help, stunned and a bit embarrassed and went to my computer.


Guess what? It appears my person at TWC was working on it at the exact same time. I'm putting my money one her fixing it, not him but I guess I'll never know.


I notice these issues with the TA seem to be happening now about once a month on weekends so I think TWC does something and that causes the issue.


How about you other Tivo people. Any issues?


----------



## its.mike

I just got a "new" Cisco 8742 DVR and was wondering if anyone here knew the HD size and how I can view the diagnostics screen to see which which ODN version it had running.


----------



## hookbill

You lost me at HD size.........


----------



## its.mike

Sorry should have been more specific. I meant HD as in Hard Drive.


i.e. The theoretical amount of programming I could record before this thing blows up.


----------



## Vchat20

Generally most of these newer boxes come with 500GB stock. Now as far as how that equates to 'hours of recording time', all depends on what you are recording and what the bitrates are. But just talking theoretically here and doing some simple math, lets say you are recording 100% 1080i programming. Guesstimate on the high end a channel pushes 18mbps at 1080i.


18mbps = 2.25 MB/s = 135MB per min = 7.9GB per hour = roughly 69 hours and 20 minutes reocrding time. That doesn't include stuff like overhead as these DVR's also separate a few gigs for non-DVR use and no hard drive out there comes to exactly 500GB, usually 475 or so. So more like 65 hours give or take at the lowest guessing number. More likely you'll see higher hour numbers of what you can record.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike* /forum/post/21923666
> 
> 
> Sorry should have been more specific. I meant HD as in Hard Drive.
> 
> 
> i.e. The theoretical amount of programming I could record before this thing blows up.



320gb.


----------



## scnrfrq

Just replaced my 8300HD with a Cisco 8742HDC. Can't get my external hard drive to work with it. Any suggestions?


----------



## dponeill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/22011128
> 
> 
> Just replaced my 8300HD with a Cisco 8742HDC. Can't get my external hard drive to work with it. Any suggestions?



I tried 3 different drive enclosures plus a WD My DVR Expander with the 8742 I had and none of them worked. I wound up getting a Tivo Premiere and put a 2TB drive in it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dponeill* /forum/post/22011609
> 
> 
> I tried 3 different drive enclosures plus a WD My DVR Expander with the 8742 I had and none of them worked. I wound up getting a Tivo Premiere and put a 2TB drive in it.



Don't know if you'll find help here, I haven't got time to look for you but give this a shot: http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/su..._set_tops.html


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/22014568
> 
> 
> Don't know if you'll find help here, I haven't got time to look for you but give this a shot: http://www.cisco.com/web/consumer/su..._set_tops.html



Thanks, but the 8742 is not listed. For everyone's "enjoyment", here's a transcript of my talk with TW chat on this. Yikes, talk about confusing!!


Tom_>


I just got a Cisco 8742HDC DVR. Can you tell me how to hook up my external hard drive thru the eSATA port? This worked on my old 8300HD DVR.


Carlton>


The Port to connect the external drive is disabled on the New Cable boxes it cannot be added


Tom_>


Do you know why? I should be able to add as much storage as I want to.


Carlton>


eSATA (Extended Serial ATA) is an external hard drive that can be connected to a subscriber's DVR set-top box via an eSATA connector, not a USB. Once connected, the eSATA drive will allow the subscriber to record and store more TV shows, sporting events, and movies.


PATA, (Parallel Advanced Technology Attachment) was the original interface to connect hard disks to desktop computers, originating in 1986. SATA (Serial ATA) was launched in 2002, and provided faster speeds, and SATA II provided even faster speeds. eSATA, which is faster than SATA II, allows drives to be connected externally, whereas with the previous technologies, only internal connections were possible. With the ability to connect external drives came the issue of choosing the appropriate eSATA connector, and while other external hard drives may connect using USB 2.0 or FireWire 400 or 800, the eSATA connector is distinct from these, as well as from the internal connector. eSATA connectors are also hot pluggable, meaning the cable running to it can be connected and disconnected while the computer is running without requiring a shut-down for safety.


Carlton>


eSATA devices are only supported on set-top boxes running MDN (Mystro Digital Navigator.)


Tom_>


My box does say Mystro when it boots up?


Carlton>


Mystro is a software language


Carlton>


OCAP...... APP...........ALT................MYSTRO..........


Carlton>


These are all software messages.


Tom_>


yes - so should it work on my box or not?


Carlton>


No external equipments can be attached to the ports as they are disabled and can be used by a technician to resolve the issue.\\


Tom_>


ok - do you know the size of the hard drive in the box? Is it 500GB?


Carlton>


Shows up 80 hours can be recorded. However we do not have any information for the capacity in Bytes


Tom_>


ok, thanks.


----------



## muzzymate




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/21909581
> 
> 
> How about you other Tivo people. Any issues?



Knock on wood, my setup has been extremely stable so far. I have two Tivo Premieres with the Cisco tuning adapters attached. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had problems tuning channels that are switched.


After my initial installation problems and trying to get CableCards and tuning adapters (with power supplies) from Time Warner, I've not seen the 8 blinks authorization error. About the only thing I see is occasionally when I turn on the TV I get a message stating that a Tuning Adapter has been connected, presumably because the TA rebooted. Had them since July of 2011.


One thing I can't explain is some of my wife's shows on Bravo and E! occasionally have the last minute or two cut off unexpectedly. The Tivo says it was a partial recording and have 28 or 29 of the 30 minute show. It's not clipping since I have that turned off. Doesn't happen on other channels.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *muzzymate* /forum/post/22024547
> 
> 
> Knock on wood, my setup has been extremely stable so far. I have two Tivo Premieres with the Cisco tuning adapters attached. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had problems tuning channels that are switched.
> 
> 
> After my initial installation problems and trying to get CableCards and tuning adapters (with power supplies) from Time Warner, I've not seen the 8 blinks authorization error. About the only thing I see is occasionally when I turn on the TV I get a message stating that a Tuning Adapter has been connected, presumably because the TA rebooted. Had them since July of 2011.
> 
> 
> One thing I can't explain is some of my wife's shows on Bravo and E! occasionally have the last minute or two cut off unexpectedly. The Tivo says it was a partial recording and have 28 or 29 of the 30 minute show. It's not clipping since I have that turned off. Doesn't happen on other channels.



The clipping issue, I have no idea.


The tuner adapter message. I've seen that a lot and I suspect that you are correct. If you see that today let me know because both of my TA's bricked and guess what? The last time they did it was the 15th of April.


I suspect that what's happening with mine. It reboots but a handshaking error is occurring and that could mean I'm back to monthly calls. I had my person at TWC send out hits to both boxes but it didn't work. I remembered that usually I try powering off the boxes, it never helps but I didn't do it this time so I powered down the TA's and she sent me a hit out again. Success so I'm up for at least another 30 days.


She said she would look into the date of the 15th to see if she could find something. I may get back to her in a week if I don't hear from her, I doubt it was a coincidence.


----------



## scnrfrq

I'm having a hard time believing my new Cisco 8742HDC has a 500GB hard drive. It fills up very fast, even when recording non-HD shows. Can someone tell me how to get into the spec screens to check on this?


So far I still prefer my old 8300HD, with my 1TB external drive attached. But it missed recordings so often I had to replace it.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/22062677
> 
> 
> I'm having a hard time believing my new Cisco 8742HDC has a 500GB hard drive. It fills up very fast, even when recording non-HD shows. Can someone tell me how to get into the spec screens to check on this?
> 
> 
> So far I still prefer my old 8300HD, with my 1TB external drive attached. But it missed recordings so often I had to replace it.



Last time you asked a question I spent about 45 minutes of my life trying to find an answer for you.


OK....editing entire posts, still can't direct you to the page but Cathode Kid says 320 GB, he's the man, so that's what you got. You get 500 GB with their signature service. VChat 20 said aboyt 65 programs. No eSATA. What a joke.


If you want something that can record a lot of programs and has eSATA capability you are going to have to pay for it, no getting around it. TiVo Premiers have some that come with 1 TB hard drive and you can put I think a 3 TB eSata on that. Yes, you have to pay a service fee but if you play your cards right you might be able to talk them into giving you lifetime service for the price of 1 year. I've done it twice on two different TiVo's, just him and haw about purchasing at all.


Also keep in mind that with TiVos you no longer have on demand. Since you can stream from netflix, Amazon and others PPV shouldn't be an issue and if it's a fight, wrestling match or something of like that you can still set it up by phone.


One other thing to. TWC now supports Roku so you can get Roku and get HBO To Go with just your HBO charge.


----------



## JJkizak

On live local broadcasts (news) I can't tell the difference between 1080i and 720P on a Sony 1080P XBR 2 set. Depending on the movie (aspect ratio change, dvd, film noise, etc) the Bluray playback is the same or better on the 1080P set when compared to the live broadcasts on the 1080P set but is far superior to DVD. I do not have cable or satellite but do notice that the live OTA broadcasts are superior to them.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak* /forum/post/22062792
> 
> 
> On live local broadcasts (news) I can't tell the difference between 1080i and 720P on a Sony 1080P XBR 2 set. Depending on the movie (aspect ratio change, dvd, film noise, etc) the Bluray playback is the same or better on the 1080P set when compared to the live broadcasts on the 1080P set but is far superior to DVD. I do not have cable or satellite but do notice that the live OTA broadcasts are superior to them.
> 
> JJK



Live OTA broadcast are in 1080i or 720p. You can't compare them with 1080p.


----------



## Dweezilz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/22062724
> 
> 
> Last time you asked a question I spent about 45 minutes of my life trying to find an answer for you.
> 
> 
> OK....editing entire posts, still can't direct you to the page but Cathode Kid says 320 GB, he's the man, so that's what you got. You get 500 GB with their signature service. VChat 20 said aboyt 65 programs. No eSATA. What a joke.
> 
> 
> If you want something that can record a lot of programs and has eSATA capability you are going to have to pay for it, no getting around it. TiVo Premiers have some that come with 1 TB hard drive and you can put I think a 3 TB eSata on that. Yes, you have to pay a service fee but if you play your cards right you might be able to talk them into giving you lifetime service for the price of 1 year. I've done it twice on two different TiVo's, just him and haw about purchasing at all.
> 
> 
> Also keep in mind that with TiVos you no longer have on demand. Since you can stream from netflix, Amazon and others PPV shouldn't be an issue and if it's a fight, wrestling match or something of like that you can still set it up by phone.
> 
> 
> One other thing to. TWC now supports Roku so you can get Roku and get HBO To Go with just your HBO charge.



We have signature and was told mine were 500GB by the installer as well. Granted we have two of them that are pooled together, but while we record a ton of HD shows (my kids record a zillion Disney HD shows in addition to my recordings) we are rarely above 30% total space used. When I had my old SA box, both were routinely maxed on both.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/22062724
> 
> 
> Last time you asked a question I spent about 45 minutes of my life trying to find an answer for you.
> 
> 
> OK....editing entire posts, still can't direct you to the page but Cathode Kid says 320 GB, he's the man, so that's what you got. You get 500 GB with their signature service. VChat 20 said aboyt 65 programs. No eSATA. What a joke.
> 
> 
> If you want something that can record a lot of programs and has eSATA capability you are going to have to pay for it, no getting around it. TiVo Premiers have some that come with 1 TB hard drive and you can put I think a 3 TB eSata on that. Yes, you have to pay a service fee but if you play your cards right you might be able to talk them into giving you lifetime service for the price of 1 year. I've done it twice on two different TiVo's, just him and haw about purchasing at all.
> 
> 
> Also keep in mind that with TiVos you no longer have on demand. Since you can stream from netflix, Amazon and others PPV shouldn't be an issue and if it's a fight, wrestling match or something of like that you can still set it up by phone.
> 
> 
> One other thing to. TWC now supports Roku so you can get Roku and get HBO To Go with just your HBO charge.



It shows 487GB, so I guess it is 500GB. I'm wondering if since I changed my output resolution in Settings to be 1080i for all channels (to reduce delays in changing channels), does that mean it records all channels in that resolution, and thus takes up a lot more space than if they were recorded in 720p? It is showing 65% full with only about 15 programs saved. I rebooted with no change.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/22063432
> 
> 
> It shows 487GB, so I guess it is 500GB. I'm wondering if since I changed my output resolution in Settings to be 1080i for all channels (to reduce delays in changing channels), does that mean it records all channels in that resolution, and thus takes up a lot more space than if they were recorded in 720p? It is showing 65% full with only about 15 programs saved. I rebooted with no change.



No, you record whatever signal you are sent. For example if you watch something on WEWS (ABC) then you will use up as much space as it took to record that show. ABC is in 720p. That does not mean it will use less GB of space then CBS (WOIO) which broadcast in 1080i.


Just an FYI ultimately what you actually watch is dependent on the television. So if you set your DVR to 720P and your set is 1080i, your signal will get cconverted to 1080i by the set.


I'm not sure how that works with a set that is 1080p. I don't think you can convert 720P to 1080p. Probably it will show it at 720p but I'm not positive about that.


No matter, bottom line is you receive th amount of data that it takes to record that show from the original signal. You convert the signal after it is recorded on the disk.


----------



## its.mike

Most newer TV's will just display whatever is fed to them. If your box is set to 720p then that's what you'll see and so on for the other possible resolutions.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill* /forum/post/22063546
> 
> 
> No, you record whatever signal you are sent. For example if you watch something on WEWS (ABC) then you will use up as much space as it took to record that show. ABC is in 720p. That does not mean it will use less GB of space then CBS (WOIO) which broadcast in 1080i.
> 
> 
> Just an FYI ultimately what you actually watch is dependent on the television. So if you set your DVR to 720P and your set is 1080i, your signal will get cconverted to 1080i by the set.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how that works with a set that is 1080p. I don't think you can convert 720P to 1080p. Probably it will show it at 720p but I'm not positive about that.
> 
> 
> No matter, bottom line is you receive th amount of data that it takes to record that show from the original signal. You convert the signal after it is recorded on the disk.



Rebooted and usage went from 40% to 12%. Another TW extra feature I guess...


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/22065261
> 
> 
> Rebooted and usage went from 40% to 12%. Another TW extra feature I guess...



Well, lo and behold, my new Cisco 8742HDC is definitely junk just like my old 8300HD was. It may have a 500GB hard drive, but it's useless since the % of use of the hard drive is wildly inaccurate. It showed 37% and after reboot it showed 6%??? Today it was about 35% and I taped the NASCAR race. It then went to 73%, and DELETED about 15 of my shows since it thought it was full! AND, it still shows 73% even after deleting all those shows.


Tomorrow it's back to TW to try and get another 8300HD, so I can at least use my 1TB external drive, and have an accurate % of use. I have a feeling satellite TV is not far away for me.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq* /forum/post/22096443
> 
> 
> Well, lo and behold, my new Cisco 8742HDC is definitely junk just like my old 8300HD was. It may have a 500GB hard drive, but it's useless since the % of use of the hard drive is wildly inaccurate. It showed 37% and after reboot it showed 6%??? Today it was about 35% and I taped the NASCAR race. It then went to 73%, and DELETED about 15 of my shows since it thought it was full! AND, it still shows 73% even after deleting all those shows.
> 
> 
> Tomorrow it's back to TW to try and get another 8300HD, so I can at least use my 1TB external drive, and have an accurate % of use. I have a feeling satellite TV is not far away for me.



UPDATE - Got an 8300HD and my external drive is working again! Does anyone know how long it takes for the Caller ID prompt to start working for the phone? It shows up in Settings and the prompt is set to On. Called TW, and they said everything is set up correctly. It's been about 3 hours so far.


----------



## Tim Lones

I think it may take up to 24 hours-But don't quote me..


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim Lones* /forum/post/22098978
> 
> 
> I think it may take up to 24 hours-But don't quote me..



It finally showed up after about 8 hours.


----------



## mbclev

I noticed on TWC's channel change notices from other Midwest systems that when ESPN Deportes HD will be added (as it will here in this area), it will be on channel 833, rather than the logical place of channel 1813 (1000 plus standard definition channel 813). Why is TWC going against logic here?


----------



## hookbill

Well, all your sports channels like NBA, MLB, NHL are in ranges below 1000 and hey have HD channels in those ranges (In the 700's) so I get your theory but it really doesn't hold up in this case. If I'm correct the 800's are where the Spanish channels are at so in fact it makes sense for them to put that there.


----------



## subavision212

YaH! I love TW and I love giving them more money. Just got my bill and my Double Play Bundle was increased by $10. Maybe I will cut down all my trees and switch to satellite just for spite. Oh well.


----------



## hookbill

Well, it's up to you but it never hurts to say, "Hey you know I hate to do this but I just can't afford this increase and I have to drop (enter whatever)." I did that when HBO went up to 15.00 and last year I was paying 9.00 more then I am now. Of course this is temporary and I will have to do it again eventually, but I don't mind.


----------



## bassguitarman

In case nobody noticed. There is a new version of software. My box recently updated and I lost channels until I restarted it.


----------



## bassguitarman

Correction. I do not have the new guide. Sorry


----------



## hookbill

Both of my TiVo's rebooted yesterday. I could tell because the "You are connected to a Tuner Adapter" message was there and the channel on both tuners were the same. That happens only after a reboot and t was on both TiVos.


I don't keep up with the changes. Does anyone know what was done?


----------



## hookbill

I had posted this big long thing about upgrading my high speed internet from turbo, which really doesn't exist I don't believe to the 30 gb one I believe is now called Extreme. The way the forum is set up now I posted in the wrong area.


There was a great deal of confusion on both the reps I spoke with and my part. It took a day and my wife jumping in to figure out that they weren't saying $20.00 more on top of the $10.00 just $20.00.


One rep I got a hold off said she had a package for only $6.00 with two more premium channels she could give me. Sure, why not? Only a year but hey, everything is negotiable. Well, most everything.


She ended up bricking both of my Tuner Adapters and in getting that fix my request for Extreme was lost and even though they sent me the new modem/router (two in one) no one could find I was getting upgraded.


Anyway, that all got cleared up, when I spotted a $50.00 charge pending. Turns out that was what they were going to charge me if I didn't send the old modem back.


To TWC credit it took only twp days after they received it for the charge to be removed. I was satisfied with my old download speed it was the upload that was slow. I was getting .97 mbps and uploading a 2.15 mb movie took 6 hours. Now I'm getting 5mbps up, it's much nicer.


The modem is a Motorola model and as I said router is included. With my own router I had it set to reboot every night because if I didn't I would lose speed. Not necessary with this combo. Yesterday I tested and was getting 42 mbps down, pretty fast.


Anyway per usual it was a nightmare but I will say that I have to take some of the blame for it. Misunderstanding what the reps were saying as far as price. Oh, and that $6.00 package nobody knew what that was about as far as they were concerned I ordered 2 more premium channels. That will cost me $3.50 and I'll pay, it's not worth the hassle of trying to get it taken off.


----------



## pbarach

^^^

Can't you buy these Motorola routers for $50-70 and not be paying a monthly fee?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22160887
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Can't you buy these Motorola routers for $50-70 and not be paying a monthly fee?



Can you show me where in my post I said there was a monthly fee?


There is no charge for the modem. They sent it FedEX with a return box, the charge was put on my account until the old modem was returned.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22160887
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> Can't you buy these Motorola routers for $50-70 and not be paying a monthly fee?


I don't think you can for the new tiers. I also don't think there is a fee with the Whole/Total/Signature/Global/Blah Home package either. But I do know that the Modem/Router combo's are utter and complete garbage.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22163880
> 
> 
> I don't think you can for the new tiers. I also don't think there is a fee with the Whole/Total/Signature/Global/Blah Home package either. But I do know that the Modem/Router combo's are utter and complete garbage.



And I know you don't know what you are talking about. They work great, don't know what your experience is with them but mine is excellent.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22164350
> 
> 
> And I know you don't know what you are talking about. They work great, don't know what your experience is with them but mine is excellent.


I know you babble on and on and have "an inside connection" but like i said its utter rubbish. Most third party routers are better and do more. Range is horrid. The things bottle necks when transferring large amounts of data.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22166143
> 
> 
> I know you babble on and on and have "an inside connection" but like i said its utter rubbish. Most third party routers are better and do more. Range is horrid. The things bottle necks when transferring large amounts of data.



First thanks for your opinion about what I post.. Would it shock you to find out I don't care?


Second, why do you say it's rubbish? Have you tried it? What experience do you have with it? I've had for 10 days and my only complaint was I had a bit of difficulty getting my PC to recognize Airport for iTunes. I'm fairly confident that wasn't the routers fault.


I have a pretty large home and I have it set up on my desk close to the N.W. wall off my house. I pick up a signal off both my phone (Droid Bionic) and my iPad without any issues in the bedroom upstairs, I'm not good at judging distances but like I said this is not a small house.. Both of my TiVos get signals in the "good" range as does my Roku. So I'm not quite sure how you can just spit out a bunch of criticism without sharing why you think this.


I don't mind you disagreeing or even mildly insulting me, but at least back up your statements with some sort of experience or knowledge. Everyone knows I'm not a huge fan of TWC, I've had more issues then I can count with them and their regular DVR is a pos. So I'm not just babbling, I'm sharing my experience.


----------



## Cathode Kid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22166143
> 
> 
> The things bottle necks when transferring large amounts of data.



Your MTU might be set too high. You can edit this in the registry or you can use a utility like DrTCP to tweak it.


----------



## WilliamR

So can you hook any external drive to the 8300 to increase its storage capacity?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22174806
> 
> 
> So can you hook any external drive to the 8300 to increase its storage capacity?



If it says it will work with TiVo it will work with the SA 8300. Some eSATA's do not work with it.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23200_50#post_22178751
> 
> 
> If it says it will work with TiVo it will work with the SA 8300. Some eSATA's do not work with it.



Do you have a link or anything on how you set this up or is it as simple as plug it in and your storage increases?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22186755
> 
> 
> Do you have a link or anything on how you set this up or is it as simple as plug it in and your storage increases?



I don't have a link for you but if you go to the DVR section of the Forum and look at the SA 8300 there is a very useful "How To" for the SA 8300. More then likely there may be details there, but you may not need that.


I would simply unplug the SA 8300, plug in your eSATA (usually called DVR Expander) to your SA 8300. I would power on the eSata for 30 seconds and then power on the SA 8300. If some prompts come up on your television simply press the appropriate buttons to answer the questions and that should do it. What you have currently on your SA 8300 hard drive should stay there but any new recordings will automatically go to the drive with the larger space.


It's plug and play really. a 4 year old or a 60 year old (like me) can do it.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23200_50#post_22186769
> 
> 
> I don't have a link for you but if you go to the DVR section of the Forum and look at the SA 8300 there is a very useful "How To" for the SA 8300. More then likely there may be details there, but you may not need that.
> 
> I would simply unplug the SA 8300, plug in your eSATA (usually called DVR Expander) to your SA 8300. I would power on the eSata for 30 seconds and then power on the SA 8300. If some prompts come up on your television simply press the appropriate buttons to answer the questions and that should do it. What you have currently on your SA 8300 hard drive should stay there but any new recordings will automatically go to the drive with the larger space.
> 
> It's plug and play really. a 4 year old or a 60 year old (like me) can do it.



Cool thanks! Works for all flavors/models of the 8300??


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22187503
> 
> 
> Cool thanks! Works for all flavors/models of the 8300??



I wish I could tell you with 100% certainty that is so but I really don't know. If it doesn't work you can always take it back but it should work.


The last time I had the SA 8300 there was only one eSATA drive and you know what, I have it sitting in a shelf in a closet. I think it gave you a whopping 300 gb more. But since then many others have told me the My DVR Extender works with SA 8300. You can get a 2TB one if you want to store a lot of stuff.


I don't store nearly as much as I use to and I have 70 shows on one of my TiVo's and the other has around 82 but it's all analog. I'm a daytime court show person. So they don't take up much space.


----------



## hookbill

Just thought I would mention that two days ago I was having an issue withe the modem/router combo streaming music to my Airport. I was getting a lot of break up and you know music break up is horrible. One of the suggestions was to put it on 5 GHZ, and you can do that but I found that My phone and TiVo's didn't care much for that. Airport had no problem, just a slight pause and it worked fine. I also have some wireless rear speakers that run on that frequency on my sound system and I remember that a long time ago I read to change the channel on the Airport. Well, the channel on the router was set to "auto" and was on channel 1 so I just put it on channel 11 and back to 2.4 ghz.


Just thought I'd mention that if you are having a similar nature with streaming.


----------



## Cathode Kid

I once placed an iPhone next to an antenna connected to a 2.4ghz spectrum analyzer similar to the WiSpy. I was astonished at how much broadband RFI was emanating from the phone. It wasn't very powerful and dropped off rapidly with distance, but it was still a little shocking. I forget if it was an iphone 3 or 4.


Bluetooth uses the same spectrum. So does ZigBee, many cordless phones, baby monitors, wireless security systems, and the biggest offender, microwave ovens. The magnetron in the oven operates at exactly 2.450ghz and is visible on the analyzer as broadband RFI.


----------



## hookbill

Don't know who to place the blame for on this. Last night watching Dodgers on MLB.TV via Roku and the game went a little long 4 1/2 hours. Anyway I was cooking up some dinner and at the end I put my veggies in the microwave and right in the middle of coming from behind in the bottom of the 10th, I get the wonderful "receiving data message, please wait.


Now I know what Cathode Kid said about microwaves but before we bought this one my wife did some research on microwaves and which cause interference. This is a Phillips and apparently doesn't cause much. I know it can reek havoc over my satellite receiver but as far as transferring files from computer to TiVo, no issue.


But there sure was on last night. And after the 5.5 minutes was over the broadcast came back. Then it went out again. And sort of stayed out.


My dining room table is located fairly close to my computer so I just brought the game up that way and sort of ate while I watched I shut MLB.TV down. After dinner and clean up I went back to MLB.TV on Roku and it worked fine the rest of the evening.


Well, if it was microwave it should have stopped when the microwave was on. It didn't. If the router was bottle necked wouldn't that have stopped on the computer too? It did start the moment I powered on the microwave. And it stopped when the microwave shut down, but only for a couple of seconds then started up again.


Personally I think it was an issue on MLB side. They sent me a 40% off code on anything in their store because apparently they had a major blow up the day before. I missed that, but took the discount thank you.


----------



## JJkizak

Your microwave draws a lot more current than you think and maybe that could have some effect loading down the satellite stuff.

JJK


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJkizak*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22233976
> 
> 
> Your microwave draws a lot more current than you think and maybe that could have some effect loading down the satellite stuff.
> 
> JJK



yeah, it's always been a problem but that's different then a router. I think it was just bad timing, I don't ever recall the microwave interfering with anything else I watched on Roku. Worked out fine, I have a HD monitor and bose speakers for my computer so I was OK. It did work well for the next hour and a half, no delays.


Where I live because I have so much woods around me my antenna has a tough time when the leaves are on the trees anyways. I know they have launched more satellites since I first got it. Now I'm getting a signal pointing it towards the Northwest. Use to be I could only get a decent signal from the South.


----------



## mbclev

When will the TWC Northeast OH/Western PA legal channel change notices be updated on their web site? They haven't been updated since May 11, so I found out about where the temporary Olympic channels and ESPN Deportes HD were placed on other Midwest region systems' channel change notices. (I just found out on the southwest Ohio channel change notice that the national Pac-12 network feed will be on channel 345 at the Sports Pass service level.)


----------



## hookbill

Since it says your location is Solon, OH why would that concern you? Are you just the kind of person who is actually a good human being and looks out for others? Or are you in that area and never updated your profile?


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22263063
> 
> 
> Since it says your location is Solon, OH why would that concern you? Are you just the kind of person who is actually a good human being and looks out for others? Or are you in that area and never updated your profile?



First of all, I have lived in Solon since October 1981 and continue to live there today. In regard to the legal notices, I went to TWC's Midwest channel change website ( http://www.timewarnercable.com/Midwest/support/policies/channelchange.html ) and inputted 44139, as well as a Cincinnati-area ZIP code where distant relatives used to live. The Cincinnati channel change notice is obviously more up to date than our area's notice.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22263493
> 
> 
> First of all, I have lived in Solon since October 1981 and continue to live there today. In regard to the legal notices, I went to TWC's Midwest channel change website ( http://www.timewarnercable.com/Midwest/support/policies/channelchange.html ) and inputted 44139, as well as a Cincinnati-area ZIP code where distant relatives used to live. The Cincinnati channel change notice is obviously more up to date than our area's notice.



I hope you didn't take my comment offensively, I was just curious as to the reason you wanted to know about it, nothing more. I apologize if you took offense that was not the purpose of my response.


----------



## WLC

Ran setup on new TIVO Premiere XL4. Because of concerns about multi-stream cards, had TW technician do install. Card worked fine. After installing Tuning Adapter and only receiving limited channels, technician called TW and told me they had incorrect information for my account and said he had to go to next customer and would call back in two hours. After he left, I call TIVO support. Technician was great and quickly identified that TW had not attached or left a USB cable. Once USB attached, everything worked. To give TW technician credit, he did call back as promised and said they had fixed my records. When told about USB, he replied "USB?" I admit that didn't occur to me to check connections, after all, there are only 2.

One curious omission in the TIVO manual is that it doesn't state how good it is for the system to be put in Standby when not in use. Why run the hard drives constantly when not in use?

Having 4 tuners and plenty of storage feels terrific.


----------



## hookbill

Standbye mode is, IMHO a waste of time, don't worry about it.


It doesn't really do much of anything. the hard drive stays on because it has to be alerted to any programs that may need recording, specially if you are leting it find programs you might like. I also don't recommend using that.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WLC*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23190#post_22295534
> 
> 
> Ran setup on new TIVO Premiere XL4. Because of concerns about multi-stream cards, had TW technician do install. Card worked fine. After installing Tuning Adapter and only receiving limited channels, technician called TW and told me they had incorrect information for my account and said he had to go to next customer and would call back in two hours. After he left, I call TIVO support. Technician was great and quickly identified that TW had not attached or left a USB cable. Once USB attached, everything worked. To give TW technician credit, he did call back as promised and said they had fixed my records. When told about USB, he replied "USB?" I admit that didn't occur to me to check connections, after all, there are only 2.
> 
> One curious omission in the TIVO manual is that it doesn't state how good it is for the system to be put in Standby when not in use. Why run the hard drives constantly when not in use?
> 
> Having 4 tuners and plenty of storage feels terrific.



I was in a bit of a hurry when I left my earlier comment. This is the kind of stuff that to me is completely unacceptable. How in the world was the TiVo suppose to communicate with the tuner adapter without the USB connected? And the tech couldn't figure that out?


You know what happens is a lot of these techs don't work for TWC anymore anyway, but even those that do frequently handle problems on the fly. For example when he took off that day he may not have even had a Tuner Adapter on the truck and calls someone for instructions on the way to your house.


I don't know if he left the box with the T.A. there but instructions should have been in that box too. Well, enjoy your TiVo. I have two TiVo HD units but I find myself recording a lot of stuff and then not watching it. Not sure if DVR is even what people will be doing at all in the future since "On Demand" is available and you have other ways to deliver internet service that's cheaper then TiVo like Roku. On line streaming seems to be the future, just guessing but I don't even buy TWC's baseball package anymore, I use MLB.TV and watch on my Roku, iPad, or Android phone.


----------



## WLC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22296471
> 
> 
> I was in a bit of a hurry when I left my earlier comment. This is the kind of stuff that to me is completely unacceptable. How in the world was the TiVo suppose to communicate with the tuner adapter without the USB connected? And the tech couldn't figure that out?
> 
> You know what happens is a lot of these techs don't work for TWC anymore anyway, but even those that do frequently handle problems on the fly. For example when he took off that day he may not have even had a Tuner Adapter on the truck and calls someone for instructions on the way to your house.
> 
> I don't know if he left the box with the T.A. there but instructions should have been in that box too. Well, enjoy your TiVo. I have two TiVo HD units but I find myself recording a lot of stuff and then not watching it. Not sure if DVR is even what people will be doing at all in the future since "On Demand" is available and you have other ways to deliver internet service that's cheaper then TiVo like Roku. On line streaming seems to be the future, just guessing but I don't even buy TWC's baseball package anymore, I use MLB.TV and watch on my Roku, iPad, or Android phone.



I posted because of my frustration with TW. The technician actually bragged that TW doesn't do it's own technical work anymore. Years ago, I stopped having TW out to the house, preferring to pick up DVR's myself. I knew how the Tuning Adapter was supposed to be hooked up, it just didn't occur to me that the technician didn't. My wife and I only watch TV on the weekends. As it is, we can't keep up with all the shows we enjoy. Since we have no need for suggestions for additional shows from TIVO, I really like using the Standby function to rest the hard drives for the almost 5 days a week they are not really used. I know this is part of a larger disagreement about whether it is better to just let hard drives run continuously or to turn them off when not in use. I also agree that eventually on demand will take over. My understanding is that Comcast is testing cloud based DVR functioning somewhere in the country. In the meantime, for one week at least, our new TIVO has functioned flawlessly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WLC*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22298120
> 
> 
> I posted because of my frustration with TW. The technician actually bragged that TW doesn't do it's own technical work anymore. Years ago, I stopped having TW out to the house, preferring to pick up DVR's myself. I knew how the Tuning Adapter was supposed to be hooked up, it just didn't occur to me that the technician didn't. My wife and I only watch TV on the weekends. As it is, we can't keep up with all the shows we enjoy. Since we have no need for suggestions for additional shows from TIVO, I really like using the Standby function to rest the hard drives for the almost 5 days a week they are not really used. I know this is part of a larger disagreement about whether it is better to just let hard drives run continuously or to turn them off when not in use. I also agree that eventually on demand will take over. My understanding is that Comcast is testing cloud based DVR functioning somewhere in the country. In the meantime, for one week at least, our new TIVO has functioned flawlessly.



If you're happy I'm happy.







Enjoy.


----------



## WLC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22298377
> 
> 
> If you're happy I'm happy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy.



Thanks


----------



## mbclev

The Pac-12 national network feed launched on channel 345 yesterday (for those with the Sports Pass), but there was no legal notice news about on the Midwest channel change page, because the notice from May 11 is STILL up there! (I already notified TWC about it, but nothing has been done.)


----------



## bgiese

Guide is being upgraded on Aug. 21st.

Got this email, today.

Time Warner Cable, we're always looking for ways to make your TV experience better. You asked for an upgraded Guide, so we are delivering our most user-friendly Guide yet, with more intuitive search and navigation than ever. Now your A button lets you easily find the channels you love by category, and your B button lets you search the Guide by title.


----------



## bgiese

Anybody know if Cleveland area is slated for more HD cable soon? Would love TWC to add TV Land HD. They offer it in other markets.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgiese*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22312937
> 
> 
> Anybody know if Cleveland area is slated for more HD cable soon? Would love TWC to add TV Land HD. They offer it in other markets.



I'm attaching a list of a lot of (but not all) of the TWC cable channels in our region that are not yet in HD, to give you a bit of an idea about this. (I left out the X-rated channels, for obvious reasons.)

Cleveland Time Warner Cable Channels Not Yet In High-Definition.docx 14k .docx file


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22312969
> 
> 
> I'm attaching a list of a lot of (but not all) of the TWC cable channels in our region that are not yet in HD, to give you a bit of an idea about this. (I left out the X-rated channels, for obvious reasons.)
> Cleveland Time Warner Cable Channels Not Yet In High-Definition.docx 14k .docx file


WAEO and WNEO are the same station. Just different callsigns for the two different areas.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbclev*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22311569
> 
> 
> The Pac-12 national network feed launched on channel 345 yesterday (for those with the Sports Pass), but there was no legal notice news about on the Midwest channel change page, because the notice from May 11 is STILL up there! (I already notified TWC about it, but nothing has been done.)


I just tried their web chat to maybe get an answer as to why it hasn't been.


> Quote:
> User Michael_ has entered room
> 
> Analyst April has entered room
> 
> April>Thank you for contacting Time Warner Cable. At the end of our chat you will be given the option of taking a brief survey. My name is April. Please give me a moment while I access your account.
> 
> April>Thank you for the patience.
> 
> April>Hello.
> 
> Michael_>Hello
> 
> April>How are you doing today?
> 
> Michael_>Good. Yourself?
> 
> April>Great, thnak you.
> 
> April>*thank you.
> 
> April>Sorry for the typo.
> 
> April>Please elaborate your issue?
> 
> Michael_>I'm trying to find out why the "programming notices" section for North East Ohio hasn't been updated in 3 months, while other areas i.e. Cincinnati is up to date.
> 
> April>I apologize for the inconvenience experienced by you.
> 
> April>No, worries.
> 
> Michael_>I'm sorry?
> 
> April>As the channels are not added to the list it is not updated.
> 
> April>I will take this as a feedback and escalate to higher department.
> 
> Michael_>Thank you. I thought that information was required to be updated.
> *April>As I can see you are a Signature Home customer, am I right?
> 
> Michael_>Sure* -- Why that matters when i'm not talking about service is beyond me.
> 
> April>Please wait while I transfer this chat to the right support.
> 
> Analyst Lee J. has entered room
> 
> April>Please wait, while the problem is escalated to another analyst
> 
> Analyst April has left room
> 
> Lee J.>Please wait, while the problem is escalated to another analyst
> 
> We are experiencing higher than usual service times. Please wait and an analyst will be with you shortly.
> 
> Analyst Lee J. has left room


----------



## hookbill

I have never sucessfully resolved anythng by using their chat. This does not surprise me.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22313831
> 
> 
> WAEO and WNEO are the same station. Just different callsigns for the two different areas.



We get WEAO on our system. That is the case because recently I did some QAM tuning on my parents' HDTV, and when I got to that station's subchannels, the TV said "49-2", "49-3", and "49-4". QAM tuning around here for the broadcast stations is [legacy analog channel number]-[subchannel] (for example, WKYC would come up "3-1" for the main channel, and "3-2" for the weather radar).


----------



## Inundated

If I remember right, there is some PBS-related reason why the Cleveland end of the TWC system does not offer WEAO/49 in HD (but does, of course, in analog). Some sort of rights issue involving WVIZ, maybe? I don't remember.


The Akron/Canton systems have WEAO and WVIZ both in HD.


The Cleveland system does offer the WEAO subchannels.


----------



## kevin120

PBS stations are not protected by network exclusivity like CBS or any other commercial station. You can bring in out of market PBS channels from ajacent DMA's but a lot PBS stations discourage it. More than likely TWC does not have the bandwidth set aside for a second PBS station in HD in Cleveland. The local PBS station here in North Texas KERA has cable carriage in multiple DMA's: Dallas-Fort Worth, Abilene-Sweetwater, Tyler-Longview, Sherman-Ada, Wichita Falls-Lawton.


----------



## Inundated

No, there is some sort of issue between WEAO and WVIZ. Someone explained it to me. It may not be a PBS-related rights issue, but it definitely exists. There is a reason that TWC Cleveland can't carry WEAO in HD, and it is not bandwidth. Maybe it's linked to TWC's carriage agreement with WVIZ.


I'll try to get an explanation for it at some point down the road here.


As noted, the analog feed for WEAO and the subchannels are carried in Cleveland.


----------



## pbarach

Is anybody else in NEO getting robo-calls from TWC talking excitedly about their new program guide. Or is it a plot to destroy my sanity?


MAKE THEM STOP!!!


----------



## mbclev

I must make a slight correction about the TWC channels not in HD that I posted earlier. I think a lot of the on-demand channels have HD choices mixed in with the SD ones. (TWC recently merged some of the separate HD on-demand channels with the SD ones, so now some such channels have HD and SD offerings on the same channel.)


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22319481
> 
> 
> Is anybody else in NEO getting robo-calls from TWC talking excitedly about their new program guide. Or is it a plot to destroy my sanity?
> 
> MAKE THEM STOP!!!


I just received a call. I'm glad to finally see that awful color scheme get flushed down the drain. This update might be a bit short on new features, but at least it will look pleasant.


----------



## pbarach

I've been using the guide on the free iPhone TWC app more often than the onscreen guide--it navigates rapidly, and you can also program the DVR quite easily.


----------



## tjs70

Got the new guide this morning on my 2 Cisco 8742's. Seems faster at channel changing and fast forwarding and rewinding on the DVR. Still waiting for Show Folders however. Directv has it TiVo has it why can't we get it on Navigator.


----------



## hookbill

Folders have been available on TiVo for as long as I can remember, at least on the Cable DVR's. I don't remember when I had Direct TV and TiVo if I had the folders option.


Unless something has changed when you get a DVR from Direct TV you lease it for a price of something like $279.00. This is all coming from some while back so prices and such may have changed. In any case you have to put out a large chunk of money to get the DVR and you don't own it..


TWC, and again I'm going from memory here I believe charged about 7.00 a month to lease their DVR. So you would have to have the DVR for at least 3 1/2 years to come up to that price. And by most logic it would be replaced withing 3 years.


What I'm trying to say is you get what you pay for. Maybe their all home DVR has folders, I don't know but you can't expect the average DVR from a cable company to be anywhere near a TiVo or Direct TV. I hear now that Dish offers 4 recordings at a time option, DTV does and I see now that TiVo has a 4 channel record. By the way I do not know if Dish charges for their DVR.


The one thing I liked about folders is if I had a series of stuff recorded I could put it in folders and just delete the folder. I prefer watching on a time line basis, not a series basis.


----------



## its.mike

Still the same old putrid guide in Canton Area. But they did add a "Time Warner Cable Sports" channel on 311/1311. Which right now is airing Local Sports on Demand in a loop.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

No guide for me when I checked before work this morning. Typical Time Warner Cable. Provide a window for something and miss it.


----------



## WilliamR

Got the guide this morning (Macedonia area). Looks good, didn't have much time to play with it but what I saw, it was VERY responsive.


----------



## tjs70

For those that have not received the guide, TWC tends to do it by box type. I would guess the rest will receive it over the next day or so.


----------



## bassguitarman

New guide in Copley

Seems to work fine and is faster

I wish it was wide screen


----------



## MaximusMMIV

I called and asked, and the CSR said that it was happening by sub-regions (ones I didn't know existed). Apparently I'm "Northeast Ohio South" and my upgrade occurs next week. The call I received advising it was this week was incorrect.


----------



## shooter21198

i was going to post something about the fact that the legal notice page hasn't been updated in months and the fact TWC Sports was added, but that was already covered.

No guide update in the suburbs of Erie yet, but since I have a SA 4250HDC i might be the last to get it.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23220#post_22333947
> 
> 
> I called and asked, and the CSR said that it was happening by sub-regions (ones I didn't know existed). Apparently I'm "Northeast Ohio South" and my upgrade occurs next week. The call I received advising it was this week was incorrect.


When are they ever correct when they annoy the ever loving piss out of you?


----------



## Too_Many_options

The new Guide is Very slow in my area, much slower that the old.

size is quite small, very poor use of available space


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23200_50#post_22336370
> 
> 
> The new Guide is Very slow in my area, much slower that the old.
> 
> size is quite small, very poor use of available space



That is really odd, on mine, the new guide takes up a lot more space, just hitting info and the box is much bigger then before. In the guide, everything appears larger and more pronounced. Not sure why you are seeing it as smaller.


----------



## hookbill

Since it's 4 channel capable now I wold like to get the new TiVo HD Premier with the 2 TB hard drive. I think it's 2 TB hard drive. But I think after blowing the doors out with a Bose sound bar (1350.00, refurb) I may have to wait for my birthday in November. The soundbar was an anniversary present.


Glad to see you all are enjoying your various upgraded guides. If the Premier's guide looks like TiVo's old interface then I simply won't buy another DVR.


----------



## Too_Many_options

The guide presented in my area is 4:3 , most screens today are HDTV .

My boxes are set up to deliver HDTV , the Guide should be presented to use the extra real estate.

The new guide is slow to the point of unusable.

If it is not displaying "please wait" then it is the painful scrolling which takes forever to move even a few channels up or down.


I gave up on the guide, I use an ipad to find my shows .


I do not use a TWC DVR.


----------



## hookbill

If everyone had a HD television then you'd be absolutely correct. But don't forget not only do people still not have HD television, some still use analog television and TWC provides coverage for those people.


Now it seems to me to look at the larger display all you would need to do is stretch your screen and you'd have the guide in a larger display. While my TiVo doesn't show the guide in HD it does stretch it (automatically) to fit your screen.


Using an iPad is a great idea as well. Isn't it great we have these options that we didn't have 3 years ago?



Here's another option that works great as well you can access on your iPhone or Android phone. www.zap2it.com . Essentially this is the same guide used by TiVo provided by Tribune Media Services. You'd have to punch in the buttons on your remote of course but you would get better guide information. TiVo owners can also program their DVR's from this site.


Extra edit: Any smart phone. I forget about Blackberry and Windows. Funny considering how big Blackberry was at one time.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22349834
> 
> 
> Now it seems to me to look at the larger display all you would need to do is stretch your screen and you'd have the guide in a larger display. While my TiVo doesn't show the guide in HD it does stretch it (automatically) to fit your screen.


This fills the screen, but it distorts the picture. It also does not benefit from the additional screen real estate you get with HD resolutions.


If someone were to ask me the #1 thing I want from Time Warner Cable in terms of a cable box feature, I would undoubtedly say a 720p/1080p guide that fills a 16:9 screen and is capable of showing 7 or 8 channels and 3 hours worth of listings. The reason the current guide feels cramped is because it is. You can see 5 channels, and 1½ hours of listings. All of the other providers I've used (at friends' and family's houses) have HD 16:9 guides. I really don't understand why it's taking TWC so long to implement this. I once ​ the question[/URL] to their social media team, and they implied that it is because of a limitation of the box software.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22357704
> 
> 
> This fills the screen, but it distorts the picture. It also does not benefit from the additional screen real estate you get with HD resolutions.
> 
> If someone were to ask me the #1 thing I want from Time Warner Cable in terms of a cable box feature, I would undoubtedly say a 720p/1080p guide that fills a 16:9 screen and is capable of showing 7 or 8 channels and 3 hours worth of listings. The reason the current guide feels cramped is because it is. You can see 5 channels, and 1½ hours of listings. All of the other providers I've used (at friends' and family's houses) have HD 16:9 guides. I really don't understand why it's taking TWC so long to implement this. I once ​ the question[/URL] to their social media team, and they implied that it is because of a limitation of the box software.



On the TiVo Guide we do see 3 hours of programming and if you want to go further you simply arrow right. Matter of fact if you push the >| key you go 24 hours ahead of time.


But it's like they say, software limitations. Since I have an older TiVo I don't know if the Premier has improved the UI at all. I will say this about the new DVR's and their software: They have taken it much further then I could of imagined five years ago.


----------



## subavision212

So I'm assuming we are stuck with the black on white guide with no option to reverse it or use something else color-wise like on this forum? It's pretty tough to look at this way. To me, anyway.


----------



## hookbill

If you stay with their DVR you are only going to get what they give you. You do have options. Get your own DVR. Get rid of cable and use an antenna (if you can, I can't), Direct TV, Dish, watch television via Roku, or Apple TV. Outside of Dish and Direct TV all those other options have limitations. I don't know of any other DVR's that are out there other then TiVo but I seem to remember there were some coming up. Haven't kept up with it. And if you do that you lose your On Demand options. Then there are DVR service fees. I think TiVo wants 19.95 a month or some ridiculous thing like that. I have lifetime subscriptions on my TiVos so I paid like $350.00 one time. Still expensive.


TiVo does have two guide options for viewing upcoming programming, and their various search features as well.


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22360786
> 
> 
> If you stay with their DVR you are only going to get what they give you. You do have options. Get your own DVR. Get rid of cable and use an antenna (if you can, I can't), Direct TV, Dish, watch television via Roku, or Apple TV. Outside of Dish and Direct TV all those other options have limitations. I don't know of any other DVR's that are out there other then TiVo but I seem to remember there were some coming up. Haven't kept up with it. And if you do that you lose your On Demand options. Then there are DVR service fees. I think TiVo wants 19.95 a month or some ridiculous thing like that. I have lifetime subscriptions on my TiVos so I paid like $350.00 one time. Still expensive.
> 
> TiVo does have two guide options for viewing upcoming programming, and their various search features as well.


Moxi was showing a lot of promise, but cable companies dragged their feet just long enough on tru2way to kill them off.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22360812
> 
> 
> Moxi was showing a lot of promise, but cable companies dragged their feet just long enough on tru2way to kill them off.



Moxi, yeah I remember that name now. Did it fold or something? Is there nothing else but TiVo for cable?


----------



## MaximusMMIV




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22360823
> 
> 
> Moxi, yeah I remember that name now. Did it fold or something? Is there nothing else but TiVo for cable?


They were bought out by a company that makes equipment for operators. The technology was absorbed into their existing products, and the Moxi devices were discontinued.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22360881
> 
> 
> They were bought out by a company that makes equipment for operators. The technology was absorbed into their existing products, and the Moxi devices were discontinued.



Well, that's a lose lose thing for the consumer. IMHO TiVo should have some competition, then again some might say they are surprised to still see them in business. I remember people predicting their demise around 2004. Funny how things work. In the 1990's many were talking about Apple's demise. I'm not comparing TiVo to Apple, just saying it's amazing how business works.


----------



## JJkizak

Consumers Reports mentioned that Vizio just introduced a new model LCD TV 21 x 9 for the movie purist. I believe it is 55 inches. Well Iguess I throw away my other TV's now and spend $2,500.00 for a new one.

JJK


----------



## Vchat20

FYI on most of these boxes it is not a software limitation to showing a 16:9 guide but a hardware one. Basically comes down to while the video feed can be decoded and displayed in up to full 16:9 1080i/p, there is a separate set of hardware in the box which specifically renders on screen displays and the large majority of boxes in use today can only render 4:3 480p graphics (which then get upscaled as necessary for the output resolution you are displaying). From what I can recall the newer Samsungs in TWC territories have the hardware to do 16:9 (not sure about HD, might still be SD) graphics but it is much less painful to keep one singular version of the guide across the board so the common denominator is the older incapable boxes so everyone gets the crappy 4:3 guide.


Semi-related note in regards to the few posts about third party DVR's: Whether or not you are aware, an HTPC with Windows Media Center is also a very viable option. Yeah, it is not for everyone and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone but those who actually know the ins and outs of Windows. But if you fit that bill, check it out! Up front costs are a tad steep, but no subscription fees and a feature packed system outweigh that by far IMHO.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22364493
> 
> 
> FYI on most of these boxes it is not a software limitation to showing a 16:9 guide but a hardware one. Basically comes down to while the video feed can be decoded and displayed in up to full 16:9 1080i/p, there is a separate set of hardware in the box which specifically renders on screen displays and the large majority of boxes in use today can only render 4:3 480p graphics (which then get upscaled as necessary for the output resolution you are displaying). From what I can recall the newer Samsungs in TWC territories have the hardware to do 16:9 (not sure about HD, might still be SD) graphics but it is much less painful to keep one singular version of the guide across the board so the common denominator is the older incapable boxes so everyone gets the crappy 4:3 guide.
> 
> Semi-related note in regards to the few posts about third party DVR's: Whether or not you are aware, an HTPC with Windows Media Center is also a very viable option. Yeah, it is not for everyone and I certainly wouldn't suggest it to anyone but those who actually know the ins and outs of Windows. But if you fit that bill, check it out! Up front costs are a tad steep, but no subscription fees and a feature packed system outweigh that by far IMHO.



My new Del PC is a Media computer and I have recorded HD channels but without a box or a card you are limited to what you can do with it. Unless you know what you are doing, and obviously I don't.


I tried to record Hell's Kitchen off of it for my wife but I was unsuccessful about how to take the file that was recorded and load it into Drop Box. Right now I have a splitter doming from just before my modem/router so I can get all basic TWC, but no digital shows. You and I have talked about this probably 2 years ago, you were the first to get on the PC bandwagon. Well, I'm trying to figure some stuff out but so far not so good. And Just like TiVo, no transfer of digital programming, not that I get any of ther then local HD channels. Suggestions?


----------



## its.mike

They did it. They finally did it.


They got off their lazy ***** and updated the legal notices, albeit it's dated for August 24th but they actually changed it.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22364566
> 
> 
> My new Del PC is a Media computer and I have recorded HD channels but without a box or a card you are limited to what you can do with it. Unless you know what you are doing, and obviously I don't.
> 
> I tried to record Hell's Kitchen off of it for my wife but I was unsuccessful about how to take the file that was recorded and load it into Drop Box. Right now I have a splitter doming from just before my modem/router so I can get all basic TWC, but no digital shows. You and I have talked about this probably 2 years ago, you were the first to get on the PC bandwagon. Well, I'm trying to figure some stuff out but so far not so good. And Just like TiVo, no transfer of digital programming, not that I get any of ther then local HD channels. Suggestions?



Sorry for the late reply. As for moving recordings over, that should be as simple as opening an explorer window (any location. Can use computer, Music, Documents, etc from the start menu) and on the left panel at the very top hit 'Recorded TV'. But please do check the file size first. Most likely the capture card in your machine is saving as MPEG2 (I have not seen a capture device designed to work with WMC that does MPEG4 yet. The Hauppage HD-PVR does but it is more or less a dedicated capture device and has to be hacked to work as a tuner with WMC at last check) and produces huge filesizes especially with HD material. IIRC last time I had my OTA tuner hooked up an SD subchannel netted me around 600MB per hour of recordings. If this is an analog channel it could be higher depending on recording settings. HD I do not recall but is pretty huge. Likely in the 5-8GB area per hour. If she is destined to put these on Dropbox you're going to need to find a tool to convert them to H264 and downsize them. I had one in particular I used when I did more OTA recordings on my PC which basically watched for new recordings, went in and automatically cut commercials and converted to a smaller H264 file. Though was a bit buggy and does require a bit of setting up outright. If you are wanting to check that out it is called MCEBuddy: http://mcebuddy.com/ Past that I'm not fully aware of what is out there that would be a simple endeavor to go through.


Capturing details regarding TWC: A standard ClearQAM card which you likely have will, at best and highly likely on TWC, get you just your basic analog channels and your local HD's and MAYBE a few lesser channels they don't care about leaving open in digital. Years ago I checked on my TV up in that area and I believe the 'extras' I got was WKYC (mind you in my area that is not our DMA. WFMJ was our equivalent NBC channel) plus the weather subchannel and also seemed to get subchannels of a few other OTA stations which are not in TWC's official channel listing. In addition seemed to be stuff like the PPV preview channel, a shopping channel here or there, and that was it. If all you get is the analogs with no sign of digital channels you either don't have a QAM tuner (check and see. If it says ATSC that is a good sign) or you have too many splitters ahead of it reducing the signal beyond usability. In my personal experience PC based tuners seem to be a hair more sensitive than your average set-top or TV tuner.


If you want more than that such as your paid for premium channels you'll need to pick up a CableCard ready tuner which, thankfully, are abundant these days more than they were a few years ago. All you really need to do is run a quick google search for CableCard tuners and you aren't more than a click away from one. Hauppauge has one, SiliconDust has one, and a company called Ceton has a couple in their arsenal. All comes down to what your PC can use (If it is an All-in-one you can only use ethernet or USB based ones, otherwise Ceton's is internal), how may tuners you want, and your budget.


As far as transferring files it is just about the same as Tivo's (if they haven't changed things) and largely depends on what copy protection TW sends down. If it is set to copy freely, you can copy and move the file around however you wish. If copy once or never, you are SOL and have to watch it on the same machine recorded. Unfortunately as we all know that is standard in the cable industry and not a Windows/WMC thing.


Hope that helps at least a little bit!


----------



## hookbill

Well, I'll certainly look at that when my TiVo's go. I can't say for certain but I'm pretty sure it was an mpeg4 file that was saved. And even if you get cable cards you would still not be able to transfer the file, is that not true? I mean if you are recording something that isn't on a local HD channel.


Right now I take the .tivo file and use a sweet software called Aunusoft to covert it to .mp4. It also allows me to go in there and change the sound mix, since my wife doesn't have a Dolby set up she doesn't need 5.1 so I do it in stereo. This, in about 12 minutes converts the file and reduces the size down to 2.15 GB. I drop it in dropbox.


Now there are other shows that she's really big on on like on SciFi that I'm not too hot about so if there is a way to slide those protected shows over, that would be nice.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22380341
> 
> 
> And even if you get cable cards you would still not be able to transfer the file, is that not true? I mean if you are recording something that isn't on a local HD channel.


All boils down to the copy protection bits TWC has set just like your Tivo. Unfortunately if memory serves, 99.99% of TW's channels outside of locals are set to prohibit copying. No way around that outside of using something like Hauppauge's HD-PVR which is a hacky workaround and requires continuing to rent a cableco STB or running a Tivo behind it.


There WAS an issue way back when ATI's single tuner cablecard device was the only solution in town; Their initial firmware mistakenly set the copy once/never bit on everything regardless of what came from upstream. This was fixed in later firmware versions and is non-existant with tuners from other manufacturers.


Generally speaking if the intent is to view the material outside the house I would sooner recommend something like the HD-PVR which uses component video for input which means no copy protection and it can be used essentially like a VCR. Schedule a recording and have it control the STB to change the channel at the desired time. But if the focus is more inside the home, the WMC route personally takes my vote. And if you don't mind splurging a little extra you can pick up an Xbox 360 or two (even the older gen 1 which you could probably find cheaply) to feed secondary TV's which can view all recordings regardless of copy protection.


----------



## hookbill

I don't want an X Box, because I sincerley believe I have enough crap to keep me busy anyway







She cna just watch those shows at home. Som I like ss well like True Blood. Her interest in TV isn't all that great. hell's Kitchen, Amazing Race. Those I can send to her.


----------



## its.mike

And we have NFL Network http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000064647/article/nfl-network-time-warner-cable-reach-multiyear-agreement


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *its.mike*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22423614
> 
> 
> And we have NFL Network http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000064647/article/nfl-network-time-warner-cable-reach-multiyear-agreement



The appropriate channels (for Cleveland and the entire Midwest region):


NFL Network: 346-SD, 1346-HD

NFL RedZone: 347-SD, 1347-HD


----------



## hookbill

Hell has frozen over. The end is near. TWC is finally giving us NFL Network.


Should of happened 2 or 3 years ago, whenever it was started.


----------



## mbclev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23250#post_22425106
> 
> 
> Hell has frozen over. The end is near. TWC is finally giving us NFL Network.
> 
> Should of happened 2 or 3 years ago, whenever it was started.



Actually, it was roughly six years, after TWC took over Adelphia, that NFL Network was taken off the Cleveland-area systems. Also, I should have said that all the Midwest region systems who have the common digital lineup for channels 100 and above (for non-local channels) are getting NFL Network and RedZone, at least. There are still systems in our area that are STILL analog only (no channels 100 and above), and they are: Hopedale, Leesville, Jewett and Scio (in Harrison County, OH), plus Put-in-Bay, OH.


----------



## bassguitarman

Did anybody else have complete dropouts on the Browns game last night. Channel 3 via Time Warner, Copley area old Adelphia


----------



## hookbill

Browns are great for background noise on a Sunday afternoon, but watch them in the evening?


Sorry bassguitarman, I didn't see the game. But I do know how loyal Cleveland fans are to their team and I truly feel for everyone that they can't seem to win no matter what. But hey, you all have to be happy that my Raiders beat the Steelers last weekend in Oakland. I see we have a game on week 13 scheduled with the Browns. Won't be for much I'm sure, but at least my Raiders have won 2 games.


Anyway at least you get extra time to prepare for whomever next is coming in. I really would like the Browns to win, I'd like to be a Browns fan but after living hear for 8 years and seeing the same thing happen again and again. How many quarter backs have they tried. Defense looks better but the offense is horrible. I don't think they have won more then 4 games in a season in the 8 years I've been here.


Raiders haven't been much better but they are still my team. Good luck the rest of the way out and bassguitarman, hope someone gives you an answer and doesn't do what I did. More then likely if you had a lot of freezing and nobody responds it was probably an issue at the node.


----------



## bassguitarman

30 plus years a Browns fan

glutton for punishment

the glitches were weird dropouts

complete loss of signal including the digital audio dropping coming from the box

had to be upstream somewhere since the box recorded them


----------



## JJkizak

The dropouts were caused by the NFL network and not your local TV station They did fix them after the first half.

JJK


----------



## mnowlin

Completely unrelated, but I picked up a HDHomerun 3 today. Pretty cool device, have it hooked up to my TWC feed. It only gets the OTA equivalents (I knew this going into it), but it does that job nicely. I've been playing with it in both MythTV and Windows Media Center.


If nothing else, it will definitely help with the upcoming yearly fall problem where my wife and I have "just one too many" primetime shows scheduled to record at the same time. My wife's shows can record on the Tivo as normal - I can have MythTV record my shows from the HDHR, then automagically transcode them to something that can be later downloaded/viewed on the Tivo. (We do have a TWC DVR on the bedroom TV that historically has taken up the overflow, but having to record and watch things there is considered somewhat of a punishment.)


The geek in me is happy.


----------



## its.mike

Anyone want to start a pool for how long it will take to update the Legal Notices page again? We're 1+ months already.


----------



## subavision212

Just wanted to see if anyone was having internet problems this week. I'm in the Akron area and have a Motorola Surfboard Cable Modem from Time Warner so I finally decided to try and watch a film on VUDU since I got the credit for signing my Roku 2XS up but while trying to watch Dark Shadows the signal kept cutting out every 3-5 minutes with the same network problems or unable to stream. Each time it would do this I would check my modem in the other room and just as the signal dropped all the lights on the modem would stop then they would come back on after 30 secs or so. I did the speed test and it was at the top so I assumed my signal was strong enough for 1080p (I am wired and my ethernet run is only about 8 feet from the modem to the display in my living room and was showing 3 bars). Tried watching the same film downstairs on my new OPPO BDP-103 in my HT and it did the same thing, though for some reason I was only getting one bar. That run is also wired but is probably between 30-50 ft. from my modem through the floor and into the basement. So I then tried watching a film on Netflix to see if it might be a cable problem and called up Shooter and it ran for 30 minutes without stopping or rebuffering down from the HD signal. So not sure if this is a total VUDU problem or a Roku problem or still a cable problem. This was around 10pm Friday night but even at close to 2am the signal would still drop out from VUDU. Tried rebooting the Roku and my modem but the problem persisted. So sitting here right now I'm watching the lights on my modem; from top is power, receive, send, online, pc/activity and standby. The first four are all steady green and pc/activity is blinking orange. Standby is off. What happens is that all of a sudden the top four (every now and then it only send and online that go out) will just go out and then one by one will start glowing again untill they are all steady. Not sure what's going on so will probably call the TW to see if I may have a problem. Just now all the lights went out and now are coming back on one by one. Even when that happened Shooter was still playing in HD to my left. Perhaps there's a problem with the modem. Anyway just wanted to post what's been happening here in case anyone else was having a similar problem before calling Time Warner. thanks for any help you can give me.


----------



## JJkizak

If all the lights go out that usually would mean a power problem with the modem or failure of the modem itself. The first light on the modem is power.

JJK


----------



## subavision212

Thanks for the response. Just got back from work and this is still happening. I never lose TV but if I am on the computer and notice a page stops loading, sure enough a few seconds after the freeze all the lights go out on the modem and after 8-10 seconds they slowly all come back on and things are good until it happens again. Sometimes I can be on the computer for an hour and everything is fine but other times it will happen five, six seven times or more with the lights going out etc. Tried using VUDU again today when I got home and the movie played fine for about ten minutes. So I shut it off and tried the computer and things were fine for about an hour but it started happening again. I figure to give TW a call Monday and see what's up. Everything else I stream on my Rokus is fine. Go figure.


----------



## subavision212

So was still having connection problems today but called TW and after a bunch of tests there is some sort of signal problem and they will be coming out to check and fix



for free! (since I've never called with a problem before).


----------



## 95oRANGEcRUSH

I am in West Akron and have bad macro blocking on 1005/1008 (HD ABC, HD FOX). This doesn't seem to be an issue on any other channels (HD or SD). Cable box is the Cisco 8640HDC. I've unplugged the box multiple times and issue still persists.


Just wondering if others have this issue or not?


----------



## AdamPS

Can anyone confirm if Dish dropped WKYC this morning as threatened? Been away from home since last night, and I'm just curious if I need to start looking at other options. AMC is bad enough, but this would be my breaking point.


----------



## AdamPS

Can anyone confirm if Dish dropped WKYC this morning as threatened? Been away from home since last night, and I'm just curious if I need to start looking at other options. AMC is bad enough, but this would be my breaking point.


----------



## hookbill

This thread is for Time Warner cable subscribers. We don't have any information on what goes on with satellite television.


----------



## Inundated

There's a Cleveland HDTV thread nearby for all the non-TWC stuff. I'd link it, but I can't because I'm on Tapatalk on my phone.


To quickly answer the question, tho, WKYC/Gannett and Dish extended the deadline into Monday morning, and finally reached a deal at about 10 AM. No disruption.


----------



## subavision212

Considering my signal problems and that TW is coming out to fix whatever is wrong, should I buy a new modem (using TW's Motorola SB5101, looking at the Motorola SurfBoard SB6141 DOCSIS 3.0 Cable)? Does TW offer upgrades?


----------



## scnrfrq

Does anyone know what happened to TW's Channel Change Notices web site? The link now takes you to their Support page.


----------



## its.mike

 http://www.timewarnercable.com/Midwest/support/policies/channelchange.html works fine except for not being updated on a regular basis.


----------



## scnrfrq

That's the old link I was using. Now it just takes me to their Support page.


----------



## its.mike

Hmm. I'm getting the Channel Change page.


----------



## scnrfrq

Strange - I get the support page with both my browsers. Maybe try clearing your cache and try it.


----------



## its.mike

Did you have the new webpage when you first posted?


----------



## scnrfrq

I had the old channel changes page up tilll a few weeks ago.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22504009
> 
> 
> I had the old channel changes page up tilll a few weeks ago.



I'm still not having any luck accessing the channel changes page. Any suggestions?


----------



## kevin120




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22549568
> 
> 
> I'm still not having any luck accessing the channel changes page. Any suggestions?



that page is gone for good. Try doing a search for my public notices online and searching for TWC every 2nd and 4th thursday evening after 10pm and you should be able to see the newest legal notice for Akron which has pretty much the same changes as cleveland.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin120*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22549652
> 
> 
> that page is gone for good. Try doing a search for my public notices online and searching for TWC every 2nd and 4th thursday evening after 10pm and you should be able to see the newest legal notice for Akron which has pretty much the same changes as cleveland.



Spent about an hour searching Google for this - no luck. Under Mypublicnotices what newspaper in Ohio do you search?


----------



## kevin120




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22552737
> 
> 
> Spent about an hour searching Google for this - no luck. Under Mypublicnotices what newspaper in Ohio do you search?



here is the link:

http://www.mypublicnotices.com/PublicNotice.asp 


then type in time warner cable and it will give you all the notices for TWC in the newspapers in the various states.


----------



## scnrfrq

I've been getting lots of cases where I schedule recordings and all I get is a message in the Recording Log "Setup was unable to record". This is occurring on both my 8300HD's, even after rebooting.

Seems to be only with HD channels so far. TW has been out several times in the last year, and added a major amp for my whole house, so I don't think signal strength is an issue. Things were fine up until a few weeks ago. Anyone else having these issues?


I need to stay with the 8300HD's due to needing an external hard drive.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scnrfrq*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22579878
> 
> 
> I've been getting lots of cases where I schedule recordings and all I get is a message in the Recording Log "Setup was unable to record". This is occurring on both my 8300HD's, even after rebooting.
> 
> Seems to be only with HD channels so far. TW has been out several times in the last year, and added a major amp for my whole house, so I don't think signal strength is an issue. Things were fine up until a few weeks ago. Anyone else having these issues?
> 
> I need to stay with the 8300HD's due to needing an external hard drive.



First I'm surprised they have a recording log. That's not bad.


You don't ave to stay with the 8300 HD. I would find it hard to believe that the Samsung box doesn't have eSATA.


As usual, I'll remind you that you don't have to use the cable company DVR's. TiVo's are available and are far more reliable then any cable DVR. There are however several things you have to consider. You would be using a cable card. You would no longer have on demand. You would have to pay for TiVo service.


I think that the cable DVR situation is probably much better today then when I went to TiVo's 5 or 6 years ago. There are a lot of other advantages in owning a TiVo, (Amazon Instant Video, Pandora, Netflix, YouTube, and many other things.) While they don't deliver as much as Roku there is still a lot of stuff to chose from.


Even if you replace your current DVR with another SA 8300 you will lose your recordings on your eSATA drive. That's another thing to think about. But from my point of view the SA 8300 is the equivalent of a mouse running on a wheel and rubber bands. It's ancient and not ready for prime time. I don't know how many GB you need but you can get a TiVo with a 1 TB and eSATA (I think there may be a 2 TB available as well) or you could look at Time Warners all home DVR. I believe that has 500 GB, don't know if you can use an eSATA with it.


I just think whatever you do you should dump the SA 8300. That thing never worked well for me. I would miss 3-5 recordings a week.


----------



## scnrfrq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22580202
> 
> 
> First I'm surprised they have a recording log. That's not bad.
> 
> You don't ave to stay with the 8300 HD. I would find it hard to believe that the Samsung box doesn't have eSATA.
> 
> As usual, I'll remind you that you don't have to use the cable company DVR's. TiVo's are available and are far more reliable then any cable DVR. There are however several things you have to consider. You would be using a cable card. You would no longer have on demand. You would have to pay for TiVo service.
> 
> I think that the cable DVR situation is probably much better today then when I went to TiVo's 5 or 6 years ago. There are a lot of other advantages in owning a TiVo, (Amazon Instant Video, Pandora, Netflix, YouTube, and many other things.) While they don't deliver as much as Roku there is still a lot of stuff to chose from.
> 
> Even if you replace your current DVR with another SA 8300 you will lose your recordings on your eSATA drive. That's another thing to think about. But from my point of view the SA 8300 is the equivalent of a mouse running on a wheel and rubber bands. It's ancient and not ready for prime time. I don't know how many GB you need but you can get a TiVo with a 1 TB and eSATA (I think there may be a 2 TB available as well) or you could look at Time Warners all home DVR. I believe that has 500 GB, don't know if you can use an eSATA with it.
> 
> I just think whatever you do you should dump the SA 8300. That thing never worked well for me. I would miss 3-5 recordings a week.




I did try the Samsung box, but wasn't impressed and it also missed some recordings. The following was just posted on the Erie, PA forum. Wow!


"Originally Posted by Xmeter:

I just had a TWC level three service tech at my house as I have been having nothing but problems with my dvr and turbo roadrunner. Fourth tech in 4 weeks.

He stated that they are deactivating all usb and esata ports on the 8300HD boxes.... and all boxes for that matter. He had told me that if mine is still working, it won't be for long.

They just had a meeting about this as TWC says it is a copyright violation because you can take the hard drive elsewhere and play the movies."


"My Response:

That would be another terrible decision on their part. I need hard drives to provide at least a reasonable amount of storage on their pitiful boxes. And besides, the hard drives only work on the box they are attached to. Once you try to move them to another DVR, you have to reformat them and then you lose all saved programs.


Just another reason to move to DirectTV or Dish.....


Tom"


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin120*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22554606
> 
> 
> here is the link:
> http://www.mypublicnotices.com/PublicNotice.asp
> 
> then type in time warner cable and it will give you all the notices for TWC in the newspapers in the various states.


TWC has re-added the notice pages. It's under the "Regulatory" link in the footer of the new site.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Link for the lazy:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/content/twc/en/about-us/legal/regulatory-notices/programming-legal-notices.html 


From the current notice (for Akron):

"Time Warner Cable will offer a Free Preview of Showtime 1/11/13 - 1/13/13. It is available to all Digital subscribers and may contain PG, PG-13, TV-14, TVMA and R rated programs. If you wish to have this Preview blocked, and for parental control information, visit twc.com or call 1-800-TWCABLE. Programming is subject to change. Not all services available in all areas. Restrictions may apply."


----------



## Chris Isble

Former Adelphia customers, check your bill. Mine now includes a $3.95 charge for my cable modem.


This is the modem that I purchased in 2004, which TWC has laid claim to. I was told by customer service that the only way to remove the charge was to either return the modem, or produce a receipt proving it was mine. I brought my receipt to the local office, where they told me that it would take 48 hours to "look into it" and someone would call me.


On the original customer service call they told me that this was a problem for all the old Adelphia customers, and they didn't know what they were going to do about it. Their advice was to keep paying the bill to avoid any late fees, and that sometime in the next few months I should see a credit on my bill.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22631268
> 
> 
> Former Adelphia customers, check your bill. Mine now includes a $3.95 charge for my cable modem.
> 
> This is the modem that I purchased in 2004, which TWC has laid claim to. I was told by customer service that the only way to remove the charge was to either return the modem, or produce a receipt proving it was mine. I brought my receipt to the local office, where they told me that it would take 48 hours to "look into it" and someone would call me.
> 
> On the original customer service call they told me that this was a problem for all the old Adelphia customers, and they didn't know what they were going to do about it. Their advice was to keep paying the bill to avoid any late fees, and that sometime in the next few months I should see a credit on my bill.



Yep, and there is a class action laws suit going on about it. Those effers are trying to screw us again, but this time they aren't going to get away with it.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Ugh, that's crappy. I had one of their modems and as soon as I saw the charge, I purchased my own. You can get the Motorola Surfboard 6141 from eBay for around $90. It will take me two years to recoup that cost.


----------



## bassguitarman

See you guys

Been fun

Dumped TWC today

Too many rate increases


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23280#post_22669509
> 
> 
> See you guys
> 
> Been fun
> 
> Dumped TWC today
> 
> Too many rate increases



Thanks for hanging around. Just curious, did you select satellite or are you going with something like Roku? Who's providing your internet?


----------



## bassguitarman

For now just OTA and whatever I choose to watch on the internet

Frontier DSL.


----------



## bassguitarman

Interesting. When I returned the dvr and modem to TWC at Chapel Hill Mall. About a dozen other people doing the same thing. All came in with boxes, none left with them.

So it wasnt any exchanges of bad equipment


----------



## bassguitarman

off topic

speaking of hook bills
http://jalopnik.com/5966479/this-man-built-a-robotic-car-for-his-parrot


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bassguitarman*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_22674486
> 
> 
> off topic
> 
> speaking of hook bills
> http://jalopnik.com/5966479/this-man-built-a-robotic-car-for-his-parrot



I have two African Grey parrots, and they are so smart it's amazing. When Bob Dylan's Highway 61 comes on they do that crazy whistle that they use in the song, but not just randomly they put it in spots that it fits in the song. I think in the song the whistle is used 3 times, but they have some suggestions about that.


So no surprise, they have the intelligence of a 6 year old child. But believe it or not they do not have the largest vocabulary. Your average pet store $15.00 budgie, more commonly called a parakeet holds that prize. But when it comes to sound effects, African Greys rule.


----------



## bassguitarman

sounds like a good youtube video opportunity


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23300_100#post_22632574
> 
> 
> Ugh, that's crappy. I had one of their modems and as soon as I saw the charge, I purchased my own. You can get the Motorola Surfboard 6141 from eBay for around $90. It will take me two years to recoup that cost.



My sister is in the same boat, though she is a legacy TWC customer. She wants to know which modem she should buy...


----------



## Too_Many_options

MOTOROLA has worked well for me , I suggest a DOCSIS 3.0 Modem

Google:docsis 3.0 cable modem

or

motorola cable modem DOCSIS 3.0


----------



## wdy41

The sats have this new dvr that records 5 shows at the same time and can be watched in any room. Why is TWC always the latest for new equipment but the first to raise prices


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Dunno, but they have a box capable of recording six shows at once slated for the second half of this year. I'm sure it will have some absurd monthly fee associated with it, of course (because it's "hosted").

http://stopthecap.com/2013/02/12/a-look-inside-time-warner-cables-quarterly-results-and-forthcoming-plans/ 


> Quote:
> Time Warner Cable’s forthcoming “hosted navigation product” represents a major change for the company’s set-top boxes. The “gateway” device will include 1TB of storage, can record up to six shows at once, and will automatically transcode video for an IP platform, letting customers view recorded and live programming on set-top boxes or wireless devices like smartphones and tablets inside the home. Expect to see the new device arrive in the second half of this year in many Time Warner cities.


----------



## domino92024




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximusMMIV*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_22994947
> 
> 
> Dunno, but they have a box capable of recording six shows at once slated for the second half of this year. I'm sure it will have some absurd monthly fee associated with it, of course (because it's "hosted").
> 
> http://stopthecap.com/2013/02/12/a-look-inside-time-warner-cables-quarterly-results-and-forthcoming-plans/
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Time Warner Cable’s forthcoming “hosted navigation product” represents a major change for the company’s set-top boxes. The “gateway” device will include 1TB of storage, can record up to six shows at once, and will automatically transcode video for an IP platform, letting customers view recorded and live programming on set-top boxes or wireless devices like smartphones and tablets inside the home. Expect to see the new device arrive in the second half of this year in many Time Warner cities.
Click to expand...

 http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps11488/ps12334/ps12291/9800_multi-screen.pdf


----------



## hookbill

Just wondering if any TiVo people locally had an issue last night with their Tuner Adapters. Both of mine had to be reset, and it appears that both TiVo's rebooted. When I saw the flashing green light I noticed both tuners were on the same channel.


Sort of odd, almost like TiVo did something (perhaps some fix or upgrade) and that may have caused the Tuner Adapters to drop off. Just a guess.


Customer service handled this for me, and I only had to explain it to 3 different people. The first guy I got tried to send me to cable card support but I ended up in the Wisconsin area regular customer service line. They sent me back to TWC NEO, and he fixed me up fairly quick.


----------



## Chris Isble

I am considering adding a tuner card to my HTPC to replace my SA 8300HD. It seems that unless channels are marked "copy freely", playback is limited to using Windows Media Center.


Can anyone tell me what TWC is setting the copy flag to? If not, is there a way I can get my cable box to tell me, perhaps in a maintenance or diagnostic mode? I am in Lyndhurst, an old Adelphia area, if that matters.


----------



## Cathode Kid

Flags are set to 'copy once.'


----------



## compubit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23089626
> 
> 
> Flags are set to 'copy once.'


But you should be able to view them on an extender, such as an Xbox 360 (what I've done with my HTPC).


J


----------



## hookbill

You are correct. On a TiVo you can look at the diagnostic screen and see the protection codes. If I recall correctly there were 3 codes. One for copy freely, one for copy once and one for copy never. That last code shouldn't be used but in the early days I did see it.


I don't understand though how knowing the codes will help you record on a computer or any device.


----------



## Vchat20

For the average STB/Tivo user it may seem like those codes do not mean much, but for the power user it defines a few things that will even affect your average CableCo STB or Tivo depending on how it is used. For example using firewire to pull shows from a CableCo STB, Copy Once will deny that ability since the STB is essentially that first and only copy (hence 'Copy Once'). If Copy Freely, it means the content can be copied as many times as desired. On a PC or more specifically a full Cablecard enabled PC running Windows Media Center, Copy Once limits access to the recordings on that PC only. Official WMC extenders get around this but the copy protection pipeline is well protected so Cablelabs is happy. And only the Windows Media Center software on that same machine can play back the recordings as obviously letting other software have access, even if on the same machine, can ultimately and easily break the copy protection pipeline. Copy Freely on the other hand opens that up so those recordings are able to be viewed and manipulated by other machines, software, whathaveyou.


To add another wrench into these works, and is something I have only learned of myself recently, is with the use of certain cablecard tuners (I believe SiliconDust's 'external' HDHomeRun CableCard tuner is the one, maybe others?) you can use them with non-WMC software even including MythTV on Linux. The key part is the CCI flags. Anything but WMC can only tune Copy Freely material. So you could have a cablecard tuner with a properly paired cablecard and have access to your full subscribed channel lineup and as long as the feeds are marked Copy Freely, you are open to do with it as you wish. Copy Once material on the other hand is out of the question.


As already mentioned, Copy Never is fairly rare these days. From what I have gathered, this is mostly limited to PPV content.


We are actually moving here in Columbus shortly and I plan to go with WOW for my cable service eventually saving up for a CableCard tuner and rolling my own WMC DVR. From what I have read, they are predominately Copy Freely aside from the premium movie networks which are Copy Once. So given that, it means I should have unfettered access to the recordings without needing to be 100% in line with Microsoft's PlayReady system (which is the core part of the copy protection enforcement in WMC and allows extenders to view protected content). I can just as easily pull one of said recordings off and drop it onto my Android phone and watch it without an issue.


----------



## Chris Isble

The CableCard tuner you purchase must also work with the Tuner Adapter, like a TiVo. I've been looking at this one:

http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-pcie/ 


At $23 for the cable box + DVR service, even after paying for the cablecard, payback is still less than a year. And I get 4 tuners, not 2.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23093602
> 
> 
> The CableCard tuner you purchase must also work with the Tuner Adapter, like a TiVo. I've been looking at this one:
> 
> http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-pcie/
> 
> 
> At $23 for the cable box + DVR service, even after paying for the cablecard, payback is still less than a year. And I get 4 tuners, not 2.



So, you buy this puppy, install it into your computer. The cable goes into the Tuner Adapter, and then USB into PC. That I get. What I'm not getting I guess is how it delivers the signal to your TV. It seems that there is a need for something like an XBox or something that they sell which acts as the tuner. Then that delivers the signal to your TV.


You mention $23 for the cable box. I don't see how that comes into play. And does the install require opening your computer?


I don't know where the cable card goes, but I assume there is a slot in the computer.


I have windows 8 installed on my Dell XPS, and I believe it's probably capable of all this stuff, but I'm afraid I'm behind on the technology. Maybe someone can bring me up to speed.


----------



## Vchat20

Ok first thing as far as TV connection: You can even simply just hook up the computer directly to a TV, grab a suitable remote (if you do not already have one or are inclined to use another input like keyboard, etc) and go. This is what I intend to do with my setup as the PC will be a dedicated HTPC. Or can just use it as a regular PC and add an extender such as an Xbox 360, Ceton Echo , or track down a couple discontinued but still working models. There's a list of models here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Media_Center_Extender#Version_2_Extenders 


Cablecard: This all goes into whatever tuner you decide to pick, not the PC directly. You pretty much have the selection of tuners here and they for some reason are missing Ceton's USB model: http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-usb/ If you look at their internal PCI-e model though you will see the slot the cablecard goes in. In the case of the external boxes, they have the cablecard slots.


Tuning adapters on the other hand(!) will plug into the computer directly in any available USB port. My mind is very vague on exactly how these operate in a Windows environment and thankfully with WOW I do not need one.










Windows 8....is in a kinda odd place for media center. Microsoft decided to break out Media Center and make it an optional package that, initially, was free. You just had to go to a website and inquire for it and they'd email you a cd key which you'd enter and media center would install. Looks like it is at least inexpensive at $9.99 now and could be had by following the instructions Microsoft has laid out: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/feature-packs 


As for Chris' comment on the cable box rental he is simply comparing the up front cost of the hardware to build your own DVR plus the cablecard rental compared to renting TWC's own equipment and paying their tacked on fees. In most cases if you stick it out a year or longer the DIY route ends up being cheaper in total if you already have a capable PC.


----------



## hookbill

I installed Windows 8 as an upgrade, so I know about Media Center and I downloaded that probably the day after I installed Windows 8.


I assumed the cable card would fit into the internal Ceton device. And I understand about the tuner adapter, because I have TiVo's. Just like a PC, TiVo has a USB that you plug the Tuner Adapter into.


Apparently you are also saying they have external devices that you can use a USB to plug into your computer, and the cable card would go into that device. It wouldn't make sense to have more then one cable card, so the extenders that hook up to the television sort of are like devices that you use to pick up signals on your home network, like a Roku or an Airport Express. I get that they are not the same as either as those devices, but their purpose is to pick up the signal from the Ceton device and that would go to your TV.


Have I got that right?


----------



## Vchat20

Yeah. There are external tuning devices. SiliconDust has their HDHomeRun Prime which is network based so if you have ethernet runs you could have the tuner near a cable outlet and a PC in another room. Or there's a couple USB tuners. Each one the cablecard goes directly into the tuner/device and not the PC.


One very minor thing about the tuning adapters is with SiliconDust's device which is network based, it has a usb port on it to handle the tuning adapter so they both stay at the cable outlet.


Essentially the extenders work as remote desktop thinclients to the main PC you have the tuner(s) installed on. They just pull from the pool of tuners you have installed there. So if you have Ceton's 4 tuner device, if you have an Xbox 360 or other extender running and watch live TV on it, it will use one of those 4 tuners in the PC.


The nice part about going this route is if you also watch a lot of stuff on network/OTA channels, you can add whatever combination of tuners you want. Throw in an OTA tuner or two in addition to the cablecard tuners and have that extra headroom. And you can set tuner priority in WMC so network channel recordings will try the OTA tuners first and if they are occupied, it will go to the cablecard tuners.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23093547
> 
> 
> To add another wrench into these works, and is something I have only learned of myself recently, is with the use of certain cablecard tuners (I believe SiliconDust's 'external' HDHomeRun CableCard tuner is the one, maybe others?) you can use them with non-WMC software even including MythTV on Linux. The key part is the CCI flags. Anything but WMC can only tune Copy Freely material. So you could have a cablecard tuner with a properly paired cablecard and have access to your full subscribed channel lineup and as long as the feeds are marked Copy Freely, you are open to do with it as you wish. Copy Once material on the other hand is out of the question.



The other problem with Copy Once is that if something goes wrong with your PC, or if you just want to upgrade, reinstalling Windows means you can no longer access recordings you made prior to the upgrade. So even with a large hard drive, you can realistically only use this to timeshift, and not archive.


I like your suggestion of adding an OTA tuner.


Thanks for the info on how TWC sets the flags, so I can plan accordingly.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23100851
> 
> 
> Yeah. There are external tuning devices. SiliconDust has their HDHomeRun Prime which is network based so if you have ethernet runs you could have the tuner near a cable outlet and a PC in another room. Or there's a couple USB tuners. Each one the cablecard goes directly into the tuner/device and not the PC.
> 
> 
> One very minor thing about the tuning adapters is with SiliconDust's device which is network based, it has a usb port on it to handle the tuning adapter so they both stay at the cable outlet.
> 
> 
> Essentially the extenders work as remote desktop thinclients to the main PC you have the tuner(s) installed on. They just pull from the pool of tuners you have installed there. So if you have Ceton's 4 tuner device, if you have an Xbox 360 or other extender running and watch live TV on it, it will use one of those 4 tuners in the PC.
> 
> 
> The nice part about going this route is if you also watch a lot of stuff on network/OTA channels, you can add whatever combination of tuners you want. Throw in an OTA tuner or two in addition to the cablecard tuners and have that extra headroom. And you can set tuner priority in WMC so network channel recordings will try the OTA tuners first and if they are occupied, it will go to the cablecard tuners.



From what I saw Ceton has an external device that plugs into a USB of a computer, eliminating the need for install into a PC. Since I don't feel comfortable opening a PC, that would be the route I would take. The cable card would go into the Ceton External device, which plugs into the USB. The Tuner adapter would also plug into a USB.


This is all speculation for me, something to think about. I don't record television the way I use to, there are too many things that sidetrack my attention to watch television like I use to, like my Roku, my iPad. TWC on Demand was excellent. I watched a whole series on Showtime on Demand by using my iPad. Got great sound via the Apple headsets.


I don't think Showtime on Demand is available for me directly, but it is via TWC. Matter of fact for a TiVo user which does not get on Demand this is an excellent way to receive it. Granted, you watch it on the smaller screen but with the Retina display you do get an extra picture.


While I'm ranting on TWC, on Demand, iPad, I should mention that I no longer subscribe to MLB Extra Innings via TWC. SDV made that a major headache for me, and by using my Roku I get full HD picture. Now I don't get Dolby 5.1 sound, which you can get with the MLB Extra Innings, but that doesn't matter. I no longer have the 5 speaker set up and have gone with the Bose Soundbar. It is not as good as true 5.1 BUT my set up had wireless speakers that were not capable of giving me the volume my sound system was capable of delivering. I had to take them down and recharge them every day, and I broke one of the chargers so that meant I had to charge them individually. Pain in the butt. I couldn't use the more modern wireless speakers because they require a unit it the rear and I have no place to plug that in.


My iPad makes it capable of watching the game in any room. Oh and it's 125.00/season vs TWC's best price of $179.99. Sort of a no brainer there.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23106518
> 
> 
> From what I saw Ceton has an external device that plugs into a USB of a computer, eliminating the need for install into a PC. Since I don't feel comfortable opening a PC, that would be the route I would take. The cable card would go into the Ceton External device, which plugs into the USB. The Tuner adapter would also plug into a USB.


Bingo. That's exactly how it would work.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23106518
> 
> 
> This is all speculation for me, something to think about. I don't record television the way I use to, there are too many things that sidetrack my attention to watch television like I use to, like my Roku, my iPad. TWC on Demand was excellent. I watched a whole series on Showtime on Demand by using my iPad. Got great sound via the Apple headsets.


Yeah. I am in the same boat. I have recently come to grasp the tv watching habits of our household and matching that up with what setup to go with when we move. Save for a select few shows which appear on even fewer channels, the actual 'cable' based tv watching could be sufficed with the basic channel lineup (Although WOW only offers the cable channels in SD on basic cable over ClearQAM, getting them in HD would require a step up to 'Digital Basic' which isn't much more) and the rest via other obvious sources. I've come to actually prefer some online only content rather than traditional tv drivel. A small handful of Youtube channels with good regular content, the TWIT network, etc.. My mom mostly survives on network TV shows, TNT or STO when Nascar and baseball are on, and USA's series when they decide to air. Trim out the higher useless packages. I think even starting out I'd probably just stick with basic and use a ClearQAM tuner or two on my WMC machine and later on splurge for the Ceton box and go the next package up for the HD's. I think I have calculated and doing a double play with 15/1 internet with basic cable is $70/mo and basic digital with an HD DVR is $85. If I go the cablecard route that drops to about $72.50 I think?


----------



## sabhain

Has anyone else had a problem with WKYC over QAM since sometime on Monday? I recorded something off WKYC HD (3_1) using a QAM tuner Sunday night, and everything was fine. On Monday and at least through first thing this morning, however, there's no picture on 3_1, 3_2 .. and I think also 43_1 & 43_2.


I re-scanned, and they didn't appear to have moved. Using the QAM tuner on one of my TV's it still shows a strong signal, but never tunes anything.


No other symptoms that I can notice. Usually WOIO is the worst quality HD signal over QAM, but that appears rock solid at the moment.


Also, I'm in the Cleveland Suburbs area (formerly Adelphia .. wish it still was).


Thanks!


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23128208
> 
> 
> Also, I'm in the Cleveland Suburbs area (formerly Adelphia .. wish it still was).
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I've never met a cable company I liked, but Adelphia was by far the worst.


I just took a look at WKYC 3.1 on my computer. No cable card or box. It's coming in just fine.


----------



## Too_Many_options

This happens to me from time to time in Medina county as well.

I will check those stations later today.


----------



## sabhain

As a mythtv user, Adelphia was way better than TWC. This business of marking everything copy once makes my setup infinitely more complicated.


WKYC and WUAB digital came back Tuesday night for me. I didn't change a thing .. they're working again.


----------



## Chris Isble

Last night my cable modem kept resetting. I was also getting dropouts (audio and video) on the TV. I may go weeks at a time with no problem, and then several days in a row where the service is miserable.


Is this worth reporting? Anybody else having problems?


----------



## Too_Many_options

I would call them, sounds like the feed may be bad.


----------



## bgiese

Does TWC have website that regularly lists new channels and lineup changes?


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23135670
> 
> 
> As a mythtv user, Adelphia was way better than TWC. This business of marking everything copy once makes my setup infinitely more complicated.
> 
> 
> WKYC and WUAB digital came back Tuesday night for me. I didn't change a thing .. they're working again.



This statement is hilarious. Adelphia didn't use SDV, how can you use that as a comparison???


Let me elaborate on this. At the time Adelphia was around we had only the basic local channels on HD and there was their HD tier which at the time has USA HD. That's all there was back then.


The digital channels may have been clear then, quite honestly I don't remember. But IF Adelphia had stayed believe me, they would have adopted the same policy on recording digital channels as TWC.


I guess if someone has WOW maybe they can speak on their policy for digital copying. I don't know what other cable companies do to be honest, but you can't say that made Adelphia better then TWC.


----------



## hookbill

Looking for Cathode Kid. In your opinion if a hard drive is starting to go bad, do you think that would cause an issue with receiving SDV channels?


I got TWC coming out with a new cable card for me on Sunday, but I'm also seeing signs that probably my eSata is going out. This would all be on my TiVo, of course.


----------



## hookbill

Well, my appointment for 3-4 pm is a no go. They did call though and told me that the tech had an accident. I don't know if I believe that, but there is someone suppose to come out now between now and 6 pm. They gave me a $20.00 refund.


----------



## Chris Isble




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23310#post_23168369
> 
> 
> Last night my cable modem kept resetting. I was also getting dropouts (audio and video) on the TV. I may go weeks at a time with no problem, and then several days in a row where the service is miserable.
> 
> 
> Is this worth reporting? Anybody else having problems?



I called it in, and they scheduled a service call. The next day, everthing was fine, but when I got the robo call I told them to come anyway.


The tech showed up today, an hour early. Fortunately, it was acting up while he was here. He replaced the line from the pole to the house. Hopefully that took care of it.


----------



## Cathode Kid

The hard drive buffers all channels being viewed, SDV or linear. A failing drive would therefore affect all channels, even the analog ones. I think your problem is related to S/N ratio - forward and return - and bit error rate.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23197133
> 
> 
> This statement is hilarious. Adelphia didn't use SDV, how can you use that as a comparison???
> 
> 
> Let me elaborate on this. At the time Adelphia was around we had only the basic local channels on HD and there was their HD tier which at the time has USA HD. That's all there was back then.
> 
> 
> The digital channels may have been clear then, quite honestly I don't remember. But IF Adelphia had stayed believe me, they would have adopted the same policy on recording digital channels as TWC.
> 
> 
> I guess if someone has WOW maybe they can speak on their policy for digital copying. I don't know what other cable companies do to be honest, but you can't say that made Adelphia better then TWC.



The context of my comment is what mattered to me. "As a mythtv user." Where I live, during the Adelphia days, I got the following channels via clear QAM: USA, TNT, TBS, STO and NFL. The bulk of the rest of the digital channels were set to copy freely, so with creativity and resourcefulness, one could pipe them quite easily into their whole house DVR (mythtv) system .. in 2005/06 or whenever that was.


I get the upside of SDV, that's fine & the extra HD are nice. But SDV doesn't necessitate restrictive copy policies. The fact is that many of the other large cable systems have much more reasonable polices on this than TWC. Cox & Comcast to name 2. Certainly it's presumptive to declare what Adelphia would or wouldn't have done 7 years later.


Now, with TWC, we get only the locals in clear QAM, and every single other thing is copy once, which changes the hardware requirements from a 3 channel $170 tuner that uses CableCard, to needing to encode off of a set-top-box one channel at a time.


This doesn't even factor in the steadily rising cost of having no premiums or special services, and the now frequent periods when an OTA QAM channel becomes unavailable, like it is again tonight (WKYC & WUAB).


The notion that TWC would be considered better than anything is hilarious to me.


----------



## Vchat20




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabhain*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23230222
> 
> 
> The context of my comment is what mattered to me. "As a mythtv user." Where I live, during the Adelphia days, I got the following channels via clear QAM: USA, TNT, TBS, STO and NFL. The bulk of the rest of the digital channels were set to copy freely, so with creativity and resourcefulness, one could pipe them quite easily into their whole house DVR (mythtv) system .. in 2005/06 or whenever that was.
> 
> 
> I get the upside of SDV, that's fine & the extra HD are nice. But SDV doesn't necessitate restrictive copy policies. The fact is that many of the other large cable systems have much more reasonable polices on this than TWC. Cox & Comcast to name 2. Certainly it's presumptive to declare what Adelphia would or wouldn't have done 7 years later.
> 
> 
> Now, with TWC, we get only the locals in clear QAM, and every single other thing is copy once, which changes the hardware requirements from a 3 channel $170 tuner that uses CableCard, to needing to encode off of a set-top-box one channel at a time.
> 
> 
> This doesn't even factor in the steadily rising cost of having no premiums or special services, and the now frequent periods when an OTA QAM channel becomes unavailable, like it is again tonight (WKYC & WUAB).
> 
> 
> The notion that TWC would be considered better than anything is hilarious to me.



I have to agree on all of this. Coming from playing with Firewire capture (which follows the same copy protection flags as cablecard tuners) on TWC many moons ago, it always seemed like they had absolutely no clue what they were doing. From day to day the copy protection on channels seemed to change like the wind direction. Sometimes I would get lucky and get some of the primetime busy cable networks (TNT, USA, etc) and others they'd be inaccessible. Could never count on it and you'd be lucky to get anywhere with convincing TWC to fix it. I remember running through trying every channel over Firewire and the CCI flagging was random at best. Not to mention Navigator made FW capture horrible to begin with. Bogged down the STB so bad that the resulting capture was glitchy as all get out. Do a fresh reboot and capture right away and it would clear up temporarily til Navigator hogged every last bit of resources it could.


Where I am currently at I have WOW and chose them over Insight and AT&T namely because of the copy protection setup they have going. First off they are all digital and all basic SD's and OTA HD's are ClearQAM with officially published channel numbers in their own channel listing PDF. And there are no future plans to encrypt these and require DTA's. For CableCard tuners, Every channel but the premium movie channels (Starz, HBO, Showtime, etc) are Copy Freely unless otherwise demanded by the channel owners (And as far as I can tell from other customers as I don't have a cablecard tuner yet, it is batting a thousand on being wide open) so you can do what you wish with the recordings and open source software has no issues tuning and recording said channels.


So WOW may not have the best channel lineup or be the cheapest (when you take promos from other providers into account), but they lay everything out in black and white so you know exactly what you are getting.


----------



## sabhain




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23231045
> 
> 
> Where I am currently at I have WOW and chose them over Insight and AT&T namely because of the copy protection setup they have going. First off they are all digital and all basic SD's and OTA HD's are ClearQAM with officially published channel numbers in their own channel listing PDF. And there are no future plans to encrypt these and require DTA's. For CableCard tuners, Every channel but the premium movie channels (Starz, HBO, Showtime, etc) are Copy Freely unless otherwise demanded by the channel owners (And as far as I can tell from other customers as I don't have a cablecard tuner yet, it is batting a thousand on being wide open) so you can do what you wish with the recordings and open source software has no issues tuning and recording said channels.



All I can say is WOW. It's very difficult for me to explain how awesome that type of access would be. It would help me simplify, yet expand my current setup so much I can imagine. Congratulations, I'm jealous.


----------



## hookbill

Has anyone tried TWC using their Roku player? It is available on Roku.


For me, I get 164 channels, many in HD. No local channels. Oddly however ESPN is not available. ESPN News is. I just don't understand that.


Reason I ask is my TiVo is recording 2 programs and I want to watch the ball game live on ESPN. Fortunately I was able to move a recording to a different time, but that's one of the reasons I imagined the Roku with TWC to be a bonus.


First opportunity I've had to use it, and I can't. Oh well.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23282078
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried TWC using their Roku player? It is available on Roku......



What do you mean "it is available on Roku"? TWC is not on a Roku. Roku has it's own (quite extensive) selection of apps and online streaming ch's, some are free, some are paid subscriptions. Roku will work with any high speed internet service.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23283283
> 
> 
> What do you mean "it is available on Roku"? TWC is not on a Roku. Roku has it's own (quite extensive) selection of apps and online streaming ch's, some are free, some are paid subscriptions. Roku will work with any high speed internet service.



I'll assume that either you don't have a Roku player, or you didn't get the email.










Roku has a variety of channels for you to choose from. Recently Time Warner Cable became one of those channels.


Now that doesn't give you free TWC, it's just an app more or less. Just like the ones you get for your mobile phone or iPad. But maybe not quite as good. I could be wrong about that I only looked for ESPN last night.


So you download the TWC channel on to your Roku, you enter your user name and pass word just like you were logging into My Services on line. TWC allows you to access most of the channels that are on your subscription, i.e. I have Showtime and HBO so I can get to those. Local channels are not available so you can't watch WOIO, WJW, etc.


CNN HD, most of the big channels, I saw SyFy, and a whole lot more. All in all it allows ME to access 164 channels, including the music channels. YMMV as it depends upon what is in your TWC package.


It doesn't mean you don't have to purchase digital cable. You still need that. For me however it allows me another tuner if I have two recordings being recorded on my TiVo DVR.


I believe it will allow you to access some On Demand like HBO, Showtime. I don't know if the other channels are all live or not. CNNHD was live. ESPN however was not available except for some odd reason ESPN NEWS HD WAS. I know ScyFy is a SDV channel and I saw that so apparently SDV does not apply when using this channel on Roku.


I hope I've explained it well. If you have any other questions, ask and I will take a look and see if I can answer them. So in a nutshell, Roku provides a TWC channel so you can acces Time Warner Cable. If you pay for TWC.


----------



## toby10

I've had a Roku for over a year and have installed several others for neighbors/friends/relatives. But I did not know that TWC had an app/ch for Roku. Interesting. I don't use TWC at all. Been a WOW customer for years, just recently upgraded to U-Verse.


Most use Roku as an alternative to cable/sat so it seemed counter intuitive to have a cable ch (both for the consumer and the cable co). Often internet streaming of content is a completely different licensing and has it's own restrictions. This is especially true for the sports ch's like ESPN, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc... This is why many sports radio broadcasts like a live Indians game you can get via local AM/FM radio but are not allowed to be streamed online from that same radio station. I'm guessing that might be why you are seeing a difference in programing between ch's on TWC TV service and what is available via TWC internet app/ch on a Roku, but just a guess.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathode Kid*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23224022
> 
> 
> The hard drive buffers all channels being viewed, SDV or linear. A failing drive would therefore affect all channels, even the analog ones. I think your problem is related to S/N ratio - forward and return - and bit error rate.



I'm not getting notifications by email on a consistent basis from AVS, matter of fact I seem to get them less frequently since they went to this format.


Fortunately for me it turned out not to have anything to do with the cable cards or the hard drive. The tuner adapter was the issue.


Now from my point of view the tuner adapter was working fine. My TiVo diagnostic screen for the tuner adapter showed that the tuner adapter was connected and channel list had been received. It also showed a solid steady green light.


But when the tech came out he called into somewhere in TWC, I don't know if it was cable card support or not, and they apparently spotted something wrong. He powered down the T.A. under there instructions (I sat there biting my lip, wanting to jump in and say something) and then had me look at the card diagnostic screen. He gave them some read outs, they made some adjustments, he powered up the tuner adapter. The green light stopped flashing after a bit and he told me to check out the problem channels, which were all SDV.


To my amazement when I went to live TV it did not show that it was downloading channel info. When I went to a couple of the SDV channels that were having the issue, they were now accessible.


To be honest, I don't know why this needed a truck roll. The tech had absolutely no idea about what was wrong and only the people who he talked to did. He just relayed instructions on what to tune the TiVo to with the remote, and whatever was wrong was cleared up by I believe Cable Card Services.


The reason I thought that my eSATA might be going bad was the fact that the guide was loading slow. After they fixed the issue with the TA, the guide was back up to full speed.


In other words, I don't know half as much as I think I do. :embarrassed: I'm just glad it works now.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23283358
> 
> 
> I've had a Roku for over a year and have installed several others for neighbors/friends/relatives. But I did not know that TWC had an app/ch for Roku. Interesting. I don't use TWC at all. Been a WOW customer for years, just recently upgraded to U-Verse.
> 
> 
> Most use Roku as an alternative to cable/sat so it seemed counter intuitive to have a cable ch (both for the consumer and the cable co). Often internet streaming of content is a completely different licensing and has it's own restrictions. This is especially true for the sports ch's like ESPN, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc... This is why many sports radio broadcasts like a live Indians game you can get via local AM/FM radio but are not allowed to be streamed online from that same radio station. I'm guessing that might be why you are seeing a difference in programing between ch's on TWC TV service and what is available via TWC internet app/ch on a Roku, but just a guess.



You probably are correct. There was one channel called TWC Sports (out of market) and I'm not sure what they had on there exactly, but whatever it was the name speaks for itself. I don't quite understand why they wouldn't have ESPN. In MLB ESPN does not black out local sports BUT it does black out subscription channels. For example, I have the MLB.TV subscription for my Roku, iPhone, and iPad and I cannot get a game that is shown on ESPN. You have to tune to ESPN to see those games, no way around it.


I think TWC is the only cable provider that has a channel on Roku. Comcrap doesn't, and you and I both know WOW doesn't. Like I said in my previous post, I simply see it as another tuner. Remember the cop manhunt a month or two back? I was really into it and had recordings coming on my TiVo. I cancelled a couple of recordings so I could stay on CNNHD. Had I had TWC on Roku, I wouldn't have missed those shows. Since they were broadcast networks shows I was not able to move the recording time, like I would with something like TNTHD, or USAHD which shows the same show at many different times and days.


So it's not something I will use on a regular basis, but from time to time it may come in handy. And it's free, with my TWC subscription so why not?


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23300_50#post_23283283
> 
> 
> What do you mean "it is available on Roku"? TWC is not on a Roku. Roku has it's own (quite extensive) selection of apps and online streaming ch's, some are free, some are paid subscriptions. Roku will work with any high speed internet service.



Toby, there is a TWC app that will install on a Roku and will play many TWC channels through a TV that isn't connected to a TWC cable box. However, you must be a TWC subscriber and the Roku must be connected to a TWC cable modem. I tried it yesterday; it works fine. Along similar lines, there is an HBO GO app that will let you watch HBO On-Demand content through the Roku; you must be an HBO subscriber through certain cable providers.


----------



## hookbill

All kinds of channels now have apps for their shows. I believe ScyFy has one, and I know for a fact Showtime does. However, you cannot use the Showtime App with TWC. At least not the last time I checked.


That's really not a big deal however, since the TWC app for iPad and iPhone allows you access to On Demand you can still see Showtime programming, provided you have it as part of your TWC package.


----------



## its.mike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23283420
> 
> 
> You probably are correct. There was one channel called TWC Sports (out of market) and I'm not sure what they had on there exactly, but whatever it was the name speaks for itself. I don't quite understand why they wouldn't have ESPN. In MLB ESPN does not black out local sports BUT it does black out subscription channels. For example, I have the MLB.TV subscription for my Roku, iPhone, and iPad and I cannot get a game that is shown on ESPN. You have to tune to ESPN to see those games, no way around it.


I believe it's due to ESPN/ESPN2 being a part of watchESPN, and them(Disney) wanting to be the only ones doing the streaming.



On another note, still waiting for beIN sports, and the PAC12 network in HD, It's sad I can get all of the PAC 12 channels online, on the twc app, and the PAC 12 site, but not on the cable box that I'm being raped for.


----------



## Too_Many_options

Roku has several models , any recommendations ?


----------



## hookbill

I wish I could help, I bought the Roku 2 because it seemed to give me everything I wanted in HD quality and used an HDMI cord. It was also price right.


To be honest, if I had to do it all over again I probably would have done Apple TV. The sound quality that comes from my Boes Soundbar compared to regular television is not that great when I use Stereo only programs. Anything in Dolby 5.1 however is fine


And if you want TWC, I'm not certain that Apple offers it. Apple is more expensive as well.


Roku is currently in the middle, well actually behind of sending out new a new i.e. to all it's current models. Their newest models come with the latest i.e. Go to Roku's home page and check out for yourself the difference in price and what each device has to offer. I think they all offer the same programming.


----------



## toby10

Compare all four models, $49 to $99.
http://www.roku.com/roku-products 


Looks like the Roku 2 XS I bought has been replaced by the Roku 3. Features all look the same to me except the new Roku 3 now says:

- "HDTV's only" (not really sure what that means, maybe it won't output in 480? The XS does)

- added headphone jack to remote (nothing I'd use)

- added dual band WiFi (dunno if that was on the XS or not, not needed by me)


Poke around the net as you can often get the $79 or $99 Roku's for $20 off depending on current deals and the retailer. I got the $99 XS for $79 on Amazon last year.


Yes, all programming is the same for all Roku players.


----------



## Too_Many_options

Many thanks, seems like an alternative to a cable box (one time charge, no rental fee, no wires with WiFi)

I have Apple TV on a set, very nice , especially if you have apple devices.

No HBO GO (yet, I hear June) I use for Netflix and airplay from Apple devices.

Quality is good, user the TOS video to my sound system , no complaints.


Roku seems to have more content available


----------



## bgiese

We're very happy with the Apple TV. ITunes in the cloud is great. Plus iCloud for your iPhone's photos is great. Interface is really easy even for the kids to use. I love airplay with our iPad and iPhone. I suspect Apple will be adding lots of new features and channels with iOS 7 next month.


I'm seriously close to cutting the cord on basic cable. Hoping Aereo enters Cleveland soon.


----------



## hookbill

TWC did something on Saturday night. I don't have any idea what they did, but I know something was done.


I had a frozen picture on one of the tuners on my TiVo, changed channels and got a blank screen. The other tuner was working. I've seen this many times before and when I tried to change channels on the one working tuner, it stopped working as well.


A reboot cleared it up, and I had to power down my tuner adapter to get the channel list again. I made a mental note to check the other TiVo upstairs but as usual, I completely forgot to. When I finally went to bed and turned the TV on upstairs I had the message "A Tuner Adapter is installed." I pressed continue and live TV, brought up the info on the screen and saw that both tuners were on the same channel. That meant the upstairs TiVo rebooted itself and did a connection with the tuner adapter.


I've taken note over the years that this usually happens on a Saturday night. It's probably not noticeable to most people and for those with TiVo's you may not even think about it but I'm pretty sure that every once in a while TWC does things, maybe maintenance, who knows? I know the last time I had to have a tech come out to fix my Tuner Adapter he indicated to me that TWC had done something, and he said it may have inadvertently caused some sort of issue with my T.A. Oddly, only one T.A was affected and since the guy came late I got a $20.00 credit.


Anyway I thought I would just sort of log this incident in so the next time it happens I can see what day it was and refer back to this post. Have a good day people.


----------



## hookbill

Something else, last week Roku had updated the i.e. on my Roku 2. I really haven't done anything in regards to using it other then noticed it was updated, I'm pretty sure that everyone now has the update. No change in PQ or audio quality. Audio quality is an issue, I'd like to use my Amazon Cloud Player on Roku but it sounds horrible compared to running iTunes via Airport Express. Odd because with my Bose Soundbar I need to convert the sound to analog to get it to work with Airport Express, where as Amazon Cloud Player is all digital and comes through HDMI.


I use the Amazon Cloud Player on my iPhone and run it through RCA to my cars speakers, and it works great there. I have no idea why Roku loses something in the sound.


----------



## toby10

Roku's update is mostly UI appearance and added some services. Not much they can do with updating audio & video as this is mostly hardware limited to... it is what it is.







Roku's audio outs and hardware and audio processing is pretty basic and pretty low end. Works fine for my usage.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23360788
> 
> 
> Roku's update is mostly UI appearance and added some services. Not much they can do with updating audio & video as this is mostly hardware limited to... it is what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roku's audio outs and hardware and audio processing is pretty basic and pretty low end. Works fine for my usage.




Exactly, which is one of the reasons I regret going with Roku instead of Apple TV. I'll bet quality on that would be better. I do not know however what Apple TV offers vs. Roku. I know MLB.TB is available and I thought about switching but my brother has a Samsung 1080p internet ready tv and he says MLB.TV doesn't sound good on his Dolby 5.1 system there either. So source may also have something to do with it but I doubt that's the case with Amazon Cloud Player.


----------



## toby10

AppleTV has far less programming than does Roku. I only use the TV speakers with Roku, never bothered connecting it to my AVR for surround, so I have no experience with Roku and surround for comparison. At minimum make sure your Roku's audio settings are correct for your setup.


----------



## subavision212

Been using the TWC app on my Roku which I like a lot but was wondering about the channel lineup. They say over 300 channels available but my Roku only shows 105 in the lineup with a few more movies and others. Nowhere near 300. Is this just because it's what we get in NE Ohio? Other areas seem to have more channels and different ones, some do have regular ESPN etc. just curious if this is all we will ever get or can it change. Thanks.


----------



## hookbill

Your comment about other areas getting ESPN is sort of mystifying, but then again I don't know why we don't get that on Roku. I do know that the amount of channels you get are based upon your services. I know I don't get ESPN.


Other things, the way the channels are organized. HLN is not in the news area, but it is on the guide. Now some may say HLN is not a real news channel and I would agree with that but you would still think it would be in the news area.


I don't have an answer for your question. I would suggest an email to TWC customer service and see if they have an answer. Let us know what you find out if you pursue that.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23340#post_23414481
> 
> 
> Your comment about other areas getting ESPN is sort of mystifying, but then again I don't know why we don't get that on Roku. I do know that the amount of channels you get are based upon your services. I know I don't get ESPN.
> 
> 
> Other things, the way the channels are organized. HLN is not in the news area, but it is on the guide. Now some may say HLN is not a real news channel and I would agree with that but you would still think it would be in the news area.
> 
> 
> I don't have an answer for your question. I would suggest an email to TWC customer service and see if they have an answer. Let us know what you find out if you pursue that.



I mentioned ESPN because it was mentioned in a review of the app I read. It actually said ESPN not ESPNnews. Plus some of the channels in that review were different from what we get here. Thanks for the info and I'll let everyone know if I find anything else out.


----------



## its.mike

I'm still waiting on BeIN sports which seems to be in just about every other division but NEO. It's mentioned on the Untangled Blog as being available via the mobile apps.


----------



## WilliamR

My cable box rebooted the other night like around 2 AM and now I no longer have the ability that when I fast forward and then hit play, it use to jump back now it doesn't. In the setting I use to be able to set it on how aggressively it would jump back. Now there is no setting and it no longer jumps back. Anyone else have this problem.


----------



## Rbuchina




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23514530
> 
> 
> My cable box rebooted the other night like around 2 AM and now I no longer have the ability that when I fast forward and then hit play, it use to jump back now it doesn't. In the setting I use to be able to set it on how aggressively it would jump back. Now there is no setting and it no longer jumps back. Anyone else have this problem.



William,


I checked and I no longer have the "Jump Forward/Jump Backwards" feature too. I cannot be certain it was lost in this most recent reboot or not. I lost power last week during a storm so it may have been from that reboot.


Perhaps TWC needed to remove this feature so thay could implement a new system software making its cable box and DVR the best in the market.


You can stop laughing and get up off the floor Hookbill, only kidding.


Ray


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rbuchina*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23514812
> 
> 
> William,
> 
> 
> I checked and I no longer have the "Jump Forward/Jump Backwards" feature too. I cannot be certain it was lost in this most recent reboot or not. I lost power last week during a storm so it may have been from that reboot.
> 
> 
> Perhaps TWC needed to remove this feature so thay could implement a new system software making its cable box and DVR the best in the market.
> 
> 
> You can stop laughing and get up off the floor Hookbill, only kidding.
> 
> 
> Ray



Well, as usual I didn't get a notification of your post so excuse my delay. I'm not really sure if in fact TWC's DVR isn't at least as good as the TiVo's that I currently have. Well, I suppose there are some things TiVo does that TWC's DVR doesn't do still, it does have some internet connections. I've kind of drifted away from the DVR thing.


I came today to see if anyone was having sound drop off's on WOIO. I had the news on (please, no comments, I know) and the sound just was randomly dropping off. Switched to WEWS, no issue. This would be the HD channels I'm speaking about, of course.


----------



## Coin Ops




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23514530
> 
> 
> My cable box rebooted the other night like around 2 AM and now I no longer have the ability that when I fast forward and then hit play, it use to jump back now it doesn't. In the setting I use to be able to set it on how aggressively it would jump back. Now there is no setting and it no longer jumps back. Anyone else have this problem.



I just noticed the same thing today. I haven't used my DVR in a while, but the "jump back" after FF is no longer there....Hopefully TW will fix it....


----------



## towncrier

I recently had a TWC technician visit my home to replace my ailing 8300HDC and I asked about the change to the fast-forward "jump back" function and he told me that TWC had received numerous complaints about that feature and ended up disabling the jump back in order to satisfy those customers who had complained. I have no reason not to believe that he spoke the truth. I had gotten used to that feature and, if I didn't want it to jump back, I'd simply hit pause, then play. Seems simple enough, but not simple enough for those who convinced TWC to remove that feature.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *towncrier*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23552780
> 
> 
> I recently had a TWC technician visit my home to replace my ailing 8300HDC and I asked about the change to the fast-forward "jump back" function and he told me that TWC had received numerous complaints about that feature and ended up disabling the jump back in order to satisfy those customers who had complained. I have no reason not to believe that he spoke the truth. I had gotten used to that feature and, if I didn't want it to jump back, I'd simply hit pause, then play. Seems simple enough, but not simple enough for those who convinced TWC to remove that feature.



I don't believe he has any idea of what happened to the feature. I don't believe people would complain about it, if you didn't like it don't use it. I think he was just tossing a story to you.


----------



## WilliamR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *towncrier*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23552780
> 
> 
> I recently had a TWC technician visit my home to replace my ailing 8300HDC and I asked about the change to the fast-forward "jump back" function and he told me that TWC had received numerous complaints about that feature and ended up disabling the jump back in order to satisfy those customers who had complained. I have no reason not to believe that he spoke the truth. I had gotten used to that feature and, if I didn't want it to jump back, I'd simply hit pause, then play. Seems simple enough, but not simple enough for those who convinced TWC to remove that feature.



That doesn't make any sense. Why not make it an option in the menu then turn it off, etc. Before it had settings where you could tell it how aggressive to jump back, easy to add a zero option as the default.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamR*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23555542
> 
> 
> That doesn't make any sense. Why not make it an option in the menu then turn it off, etc. Before it had settings where you could tell it how aggressive to jump back, easy to add a zero option as the default.


Exactly. And as Judge Judy says, "If it doesn't make sense, it's not true." I'm not faulting the poster, he's just saying what he was told. I say I smell BS from the tech.


----------



## hookbill

TWC VS CBS. Well, we are lucky we don't live in a CBS owned outlet. But as it stands, Showtime is off the air, and I thought for sure there would be some conversation started about this. This is the final season of Dexter.


I don't know if there is anywhere to get an update on the situation, but I do know that per the email I received that TWC is using the "Standing up for our customers" position. Intereesting since rates just went up recently.


TWC is giving us STARZ as a replacement, and they are going to give us reimbursement for Showtime not being on. Hardly a replacement as far as I'm concerned. Guess I'll google and see if I can find anything.


Edit: A quick glance indicates CBS wants 2 bucks more per customer, which is 3 bucks less then ESPN gets.


----------



## hookbill

OK, so I'm the only one who cares about this? That's fine, I don't mind talking to myself.










From what I see on Google yesterday, this may well go into the start of football season, then I guess at that time TWC would have no choice but to throw in the towel. The losers on this of course is we, the viewers.


Checking my channel guide it appears that only the basic Showtime channels still appear available, and they were both unchecked. That would be the guide I receive from Tribune Media for my TiVo, so I had so I had Showtime and Showtime HD only.


I think that Tribune Media removing the other Showtime Channels from the Guide is not a good indication of a short time resolution.


----------



## terryfoster

I wouldn't assume that TWC would throw in the towel once football season starts. CBS has money to lose with fewer viewers during football season as well. I remember a local NBC station dispute that ran through the Super Bowl many years back. At this point it feels alot like the Viacom vs. DirecTV battle last year. So get comfortable, you could be in for a protracted dispute which seems to be very popular now.


In regards to Dexter, someone mentioned just catching up once they get the on demand offerings back.


----------



## hookbill

Yes I would imagine that it would be available. As far as I know TWC doesn't use Showtime App but you could access Showtime via TWC App on demand on iPad. I think this is available for me on Roku as well. I don't use TWC box so On Demand directly is not an option.


In our area this may not be that big of a deal, but TWC is all over Los Angeles, though Comcast may have the majority there, Chicago and New York. In those areas, subscribers have got to be p.o.'d if they can't get reception OTA, Under the Dome is being shown on CBS and those cities and others are CBS owned affiliates. Because of that I think TWC will have to cave in.


I read that this price battle is over 2.00 more per customer, and the overall price is 3.00 per customer under the price TWC is currently paying for ESPN. I don't think TWC is truly looking out for our interest in this.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

Everything's gone, including Showtime On Demand and the channels delivered via the apps (Roku, iPad, etc). There is no (legal) way to watch Showtime for TWC customers right now. According to Stop the Cap , the $2/mo retransmission fee is no longer the focus of the discussions. They're arguing over digital library rights for CBS and/or Showtime content. It sounds like TWC wants expanded rights for that content. Maybe they want to offer it out of the home via their apps or something?


Maybe we'll get lucky and at least get Showtime Anytime out of this (since the price increase is inevitable)?


----------



## hookbill

Even though you can't use Showtime App with TWC you COULD watch Showtime using On Demand, with the TWC app. I've used it before so I know it worked. Probably won't know though of course. Sad to say this may take some time. But you never really know.


----------



## pbarach

^^^^

Nope, and in fact that TWC app for iPhone now crashes every time I tap On Demand. That is one very buggy app in the best of circumstances. For example, mine often doesn't list certain channels in the Guide, including AMC.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23609906
> 
> 
> ^^^^
> 
> Nope, and in fact that TWC app for iPhone now crashes every time I tap On Demand. That is one very buggy app in the best of circumstances. For example, mine often doesn't list certain channels in the Guide, including AMC.




Welll, I used it with my iPad and I didn't have any issues with it. IIRC i was watching a news program of some sort, and it was on Showtime. I remember wanting to make a season pass for my TiVo and got caught up on previous episodes with the TWC app.


I don't use it that much, and all I can do is share my experience with it. On my iPad, it worked fine. There have been 2 recent updates. Haven't tried it since installing so you could be right.


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23609942
> 
> 
> Welll, I used it with my iPad and I didn't have any issues with it. IIRC i was watching a news program of some sort, and it was on Showtime.



I was able a few minutes ago to access the TWC site on my PC: https://video2.timewarnercable.com/ 


There are numerous On Demand shows viewable there, but nothing from Showtime. The iPhone app was indeed updated a few days ago--it's now working, but wasn't a couple o0f hours ago. No Showtime there, either.


----------



## subavision212

Sorry if this already came up but tonight I tried to watch the local QAM HD stations (3.1, 5.1 19.1 etc.) on the tv in my bedroom which just has cable but no box and they are gone. Has TW finally decided to block or encrypt them or has something else happened. Thanks for any info.


----------



## hookbill

You can't watch digital television with at converter box. Sorry.


----------



## subavision212




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23611089
> 
> 
> You can't watch digital television with at converter box. Sorry.


Not sure what you are telling me. Never had a box in my bedroom but the local QAM HD stations 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1 etc. were available after I did an auto program up till today. Now I rescan and they don't even show up in the channel lineup. Just wondering if they finally decided to encrypt them what with the FCC decision last year.


----------



## kevin120




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *subavision212*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23611108
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are telling me. Never had a box in my bedroom but the local QAM HD stations 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1 etc. were available after I did an auto program up till today. Now I rescan and they don't even show up in the channel lineup. Just wondering if they finally decided to encrypt them what with the FCC decision last year.



they are not encrypted and that rule doesn't even apply to any TWC Systems outside of NYC or Augusta ME as is for systems that are 100% digital no analog. TWC can't just turn on encryption as the wish without a waiver and they have to send out letters telling customers that they are doing so and only after they are 100% digital with 0 analogs.


----------



## toby10

Sure they didn't just move the digital QAM ch's around? Maybe rescan and search the entire scan results.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23611455
> 
> 
> Sure they didn't just move the digital QAM ch's around? Maybe rescan and search the entire scan results.



That's probably right, they do move those channels that you can get without a converter box that are not encrypted from time to time. Since we were talking about Showtime previously (that would require a box) I somehow thought you were discussing that. Like Toby said, do a rescan, se what you come up with.


----------



## jtighe

Help. I am having trouble in mentor with wkyc OTA. Dropping out. Only 25%


----------



## hookbill

This thread is for issues and discussion about TWC. OTA discussions is on another thread,. Look for Cleveleand OTA. Perhaps someone there can help you.


----------



## pbarach

I'm considering a switch from TWC to AT&T uverse. Anyone tried both? How does the picture quality compare?


----------



## Vchat20

Depends on how picky you are about your PQ and how good your TV is. For the most part it is a tradeoff for a better whole home DVR setup and user interface. Lived with my cousin up to a couple months ago and he has Uverse. PQ is 'Okay' and honestly if I am just enjoying the content, PQ doesn't cross my mind. But the STB UI is easy to use and less junky than Navigator and the 'whole home' setup is the best way to run it compared to other providers IMHO. I don't know how TWC handles there's but the only other cableco we had experience with was Insight and it was essentially multiple 2 tuner DVR's spread through the house with their own recording queue storing to a single NAS rather than their own internal drives so you had to intelligently separate recording jobs between boxes. Crap. Uverse's is all centralized to the single main DVR that the secondary STB's seamlessly control the DVR aspect so it just works without needing to really think about it. Downside is you have a limited number of 'streams' you can run. This covers the whole house no matter how many boxes you have and is both active recordings and live viewed channels. I don't recall the full stats there but I seem to recall it was up to 4 HD channels max. Now pure speculation on my part but there have been talks about doubling speeds which, in theory, would allow them to increase that limit. But that is all speculation right now.


With the Uverse system it is basically a single DSL line shared between of Internet, TV, and Voice. Depending on your usage and internet speed tier, using up all 4 HD streams CAN impact internet speeds. If I recall it essentially left open at minimum 6mbps guaranteed bandwidth. I may be wrong. It also depends on your sync speed on the line. If it is a clean and short line to the nearest VRAD, you shouldn't run into any issues. Ours was great. Very clean, highest sync rate. Think we had a 10mbit tier and only time we had an impact was when that 4th stream kicked in. At 3 we got the full speeds.


----------



## hookbill

I have used DSL in the pst before we had wireless devices and such. I don'tbelieve DSL can give me the speed I needfor MLB. I've heard great stories about U-Vere. My one questiion: How fast. TWC can hit 50 mgb and that's awesome. I don't know.


----------



## Vchat20

It should be noted Uverse uses a different grade of DSL. What you probably used under very best circumstances could top 15-20mbit and in most cases maybe never saw beyond 6-10. Uverse uses VDSL which has sync rates up to around 55-60mbit and the highest internet rate they offer is 24/5. And they keep VRAD distances very low to offer those speeds. 24 would be WAY more than enough to be honest.


----------



## toby10

I've been on Uverse for about 5 months. Best bang for buck services out there by a long shot, especially during their two year introductory period. But it's not without it's issues....


- Vchat is correct, still 4 HD ch's max


- max speed is determined by distance from the utility box, mine caps out about 12 mbps on their 18 mbps service (I'm too far from box to get full 18 mbps)

Never needed 18 mbps but that was part of the "package" they were offering. They have an automatic monthly credit of $7 on my bill cuz I'm not getting the full 18 mbps (that I never needed/wanted in first place







)


- just last week they had a week long issue where the wireless boxes could not communicate with the central DVR box. This was my entire area/region and only affected DVR usage by the wireless STB's, all else worked fine


- if you have a lot of networked devices on your network (as I do) they will have to run the old coax RG6 from your new ATT "phone box" to the central DVR. Too many network devices causes issues with the wireless distribution function of their system which work off of the supplied 2Wire router.


- wireless STB's can get squirly at times and need rebooted about twice per month. My two wireless STB's have spontaneously rebooted on their own about three times since I started service.

Nothing major but it's not quite a rock solid STB system yet. Though being wireless STB's does add a level of convenience for setup and TV placement (no wires).


Hope this helps.


----------



## hookbill

I have no experience with AT&T but because it was DSL I wanted to see what others had to say.


18 GB is Max? That would never cut it in my house. I run 30 GB and still occasionally run into streaming issues on my Roku. That would be my primary reason not to switch, and trust me when I tell you that 5 years ago before we had all these devices I would have switched in a heartbeat to get away from TWC. The 4 HD show maximum has been true since the service started up, I'm very surprised that hasn't changed.


It's simply not an option for me, I'm not in AT&T territory so it's unavailable anyway.


----------



## toby10

I run my Roku via WiFi without issue, currently with ATT's 12 mbps and previously with WOW's 8 mbps. All while two other TV's are watching/recording HD ch's and with multiple music streaming players running 24/7. Just like the more common cable TV systems, ATT separates TV from internet usage so the lowest package speed subscription does not impact TV usage.


Sure your streaming issues are not internal to your network? TWC utilize any bandwidth shaping/throttling for internet?


----------



## terryfoster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23370#post_23651129
> 
> 
> Depends on how picky you are about your PQ and how good your TV is. ... Uverse's is all centralized to the single main DVR that the secondary STB's seamlessly control the DVR aspect so it just works without needing to really think about it. Downside is you have a limited number of 'streams' you can run. This covers the whole house no matter how many boxes you have and is both active recordings and live viewed channels. I don't recall the full stats there but I seem to recall it was up to 4 HD channels max.



My standard spiel on UVerse:


Personally I find these limitations to be the most troublesome. There are times where I'm at least quadruple booked on the DVR with HD shows that don't rerun. Plus I wouldn't get all 4 shows recorded in HD since the hardware limitation is 3HD & 1 SD shows recorded (even if you have 4 HD streams). On top of that, if I am quadruple booked on the DVR, I or someone else in the house cannot watch anything else live (no 5th+ live show in your home).


Aside from HD PQ, I figure the rest of the things advertised against UVerse (slow internet when watching tv, etc) are either a gross exaggeration (like those against satellite TV) or may only apply to the vast minority of customers. However, my notes above are what I have been able to find as concrete limitations of the UVerse product


On the other hand, these limitations are not likely to be as troublesome to others are they are to me.


While UVerse has many channels, I'd also recommend making sure that they have the channels you most watch.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400#post_23651925
> 
> 
> I run 30 GB and still occasionally run into streaming issues on my Roku.



I agree with toby10 that this isn't likely an issue with the segment between your modem and the TWC internal network, but a bottleneck either somewhere else in the internet (most likely) or on your own network (less likely). That's the funny thing about internet speeds, they're only as fast as your slowest segment between you and the server (and how fast the server can serve up the data).


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400#post_23651913
> 
> 
> I've been on Uverse for about 5 months. Best bang for buck services out there by a long shot, especially during their two year introductory period. But it's not without it's issues....



But how's the picture quality on HD shows? The last time I saw anything about that issue, it was 5 years ago and people thought Uverse wasnt as good as their cable hookup


----------



## Vchat20

Once again, it depends on how picky you are about PQ and what your equipment is like. Uverse isn't going to be as good PQ as cable but it isn't horrible either.


----------



## pbarach

^^

If it's a PQ downgrade from TWC, which is fine, I'm not switching to it at this point. Thanks for the info.


----------



## MichaelJay

*Time Warner remote control problems*


Somehow I suspect I'm not the only one who has had problems with the remotes supplied by Time Warner for their set top boxes or DVRs.


My frustration was so high that I seriously considered going the TiVo route, but the economics (mostly the initial $400 for their newest mid-range model) made no sense.


It seemed that the standard remotes lasted about a month before becoming semi-useless -- pounding the keys, unable to stop fast forwarding, slow DVR response all the way around. At the suggestion of a sales clerk, not a techie, I traded in my POS CLIKR-5 remote for a Synergy V model. When I took the old remote to my local TWC office, the clerk literally threw it into a wastebasket, and didn't even ask for my phone number for account verification. He called it an even trade and sent me on my way. Again, I have a hunch this is a very common complaint.


Problem solved for now. I will report if problems creep in with this newer model.


----------



## Inundated

Where I am currently, we have analog TWC with one box downstairs.


Can anyone tell me what channels are currently in the clear on QAM on TWC's Akron system? I used to live over in Old Adelphia Land.


If there's nothing interesting, I won't bother plugging the cable into my USB tuner, and trying to get it working...


----------



## Inundated

Answering my own question:


Plugged in the USB tuner and nothing exciting in the clear, QAM-wise, on TWC Akron.


The usual suspects - all the broadcasters and their subs (the ones TWC carries, no 55.3 This TV or the 55.2 "Ernest Angley channel"), etc.


WAOH-LP 29 "Retro TV" is in the clear, duplicating analog 11.


DisneyXD is in the clear for some odd reason. Add a couple of PPV barker channels, and that's about it for the clear QAM on TWC's Akron system....


----------



## hookbill

Not surprised buddy. Good to see you.


----------



## hookbill

CBS and TWC have reached an agreement. I still don't have Shotime but that might be because I have a TiVo. Anyone else confirm? I have a TWC customer confirm in the Wilmington, OH area. CBS is confirming on the internet.


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400_100#post_23694479
> 
> 
> CBS and TWC have reached an agreement. I still don't have Shotime but that might be because I have a TiVo. Anyone else confirm? I have a TWC customer confirm in the Wilmington, OH area. CBS is confirming on the internet.



Nice to see you!










Yep, CBS and TWC are at peace. The block on CBS.com to TWC RoadRunner customers is now gone (complete with a "welcome back" and an invite to catch up on what you missed). CBS O&Os are back in markets like NYC, LA, Dallas, etc.


I'm betting your Showtime issue is a TiVo issue. Is it SDV on TWC?


----------



## hookbill

I didn't thinnk that one or HBO was, but I could be wrong. I have no guide data, ofcourse but the basic Showtime and Showtime HD channel is there. However it's a blank screen.


----------



## hookbill

Duplicate post


----------



## Inundated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400_100#post_23694508
> 
> 
> I didn't thinnk that one or HBO was, but I could be wrong. I have no guide data, ofcourse but the basic Showtime and Showtime HD channel is there. However it's a blank screen.



I've never subscribed to Showtime, and don't here, so I have no idea if it's back yet. I bet it'll catch up soon... everything else seems to be "back".


----------



## hookbill

My TWC app on my iPad shows Showtime on Demand available. So I do believe it's back. Just not on my TiVo. I see a message saying channel not provided by Tuning Adapter.


Edit: Showtime live available on the TWC Roku channel. It's back up. Just once again TiVo will have to wait.


----------



## hookbill

This morning I see that both SHO and SHOHD are on 642 and 1642 on my TiVo, no guide data available and either are any of the other Showtime channels. I attempted to submit a lineup report but got a message saying that I was lost. I think that translates into server overloaded, however I will make an attempt at calling TiVo and submitting the lineup change around 10:00 if I have time. This is probably unnecessary, but I remember the one time when the power was out for a day and a half and I finally called and was told this was the first call they received on it. All you other TWC people should all be fine by now.


----------



## hookbill

For TiVo owners with Showtime subscriptions or any other CBS owned channel, guide data is now available. Have your TiVo phone home.


----------



## hookbill

Make sure you look at your bill this month from TWC. Apparently, they are wasting no time passing those higher rates right on to their customers after their suable with CBS.


Lets do some math. Take 162.00, subtract 9.00, and you get 157.00. Doesn't sound right to you? Well, apparently to TWC that's exactly what it comes out to. Matter of fact TWC argues with itself on that figure, the statement says 158.00, the "My Services" page says 157.00.


I've rounded off the figures, but last month I paid 162.000 for all my crap from TWC, cable cards, HBO, Showtime, faster internet speed. The faster internet was 10.00, went to 20.00 and now has gone to 30, I guess they figure a buck per GB. Then TWC drops a 9.00 credit on me for having their little dispute with CBS and cutting Showtime off from me during the final season of Dexter. Now in my world, that should mean I pay 153.00, but nope, TWC says with taxes and fees its 157.00. 158.00 if you look at the statement.


I'm guessing there was an additional buck thrown in for the first two days of September that doesn't show up on the statement so that's why My Services and Statement are different, I paid the lower amount. But something got raised, and shame on me for not looking at the details on the statement, I don't know what it was.


Anyway, they are going to send out your emails notifying you your bill is available on line in the next day or so. Don't be surprised if it was higher then the previous month. Are we ever surprised?


----------



## pbarach

^^

Just signed an AT&T U-verse contract


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pbarach*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400#post_23704990
> 
> 
> ^^
> 
> Just signed an AT&T U-verse contract



Congrats. I don't have that option, but even if I did I wouldn't do it. DSL is too slow.


What did you get and how much did it cost you?


----------



## pbarach

U450 with MaxPlus (that's all their channels including all the premiums), 1 STB, and 18 Mbps Internet, $122 plus tax for 12 months. Installation fee waived and a VISA gift card to cover the activation fee.


----------



## toby10

Do verify via http://www.speedtest.net (or similar) that you are indeed getting the full mbps that you are paying for. Anything less, within reason, and you can get your monthly bill reduced even further.


----------



## Vchat20

I actually had very good luck with getting my rated speeds 24/7 on Uverse. Then again that is highly dependent on your line quality and TV usage. Good luck with it though! Hopefully the techs treat you right and the infrastructure up there is good.


----------



## toby10

Oh yeah, they often deliver speeds exactly as promised, possibly the majority of the time. But then they often can't deliver promised speeds based on ones distance from their local distribution box.


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *toby10*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400#post_23706657
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, they often deliver speeds exactly as promised, possibly the majority of the time. But then they often can't deliver promised speeds based on ones distance from their local distribution box.



My speeds vary so much from room to room, that's why I want the 30 GB for internet.


Now on an entirely different subject, both of my HD TiVo's did a reboot last night. I have no idea why, I would suspect that came from TiVo. I did a web search, can't find anything. No power blackout, one of my TiVos is connected to UPS so that's not the reason.


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400#post_23708348
> 
> 
> My speeds vary so much from room to room, that's why I want the 30 GB for internet.....



Differences in speed from room to room would be your WiFi and/or your network and/or the devices in the various rooms. These are unrelated to what internet speed you are paying for.

To get a better and fair speed comparison I'd suggest trying the speed test sites while a capable computer/laptop is wired directly to your router (i.e. turn off that devices WiFi).


----------



## pbarach




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23400_50#post_23706583
> 
> 
> I actually had very good luck with getting my rated speeds 24/7 on Uverse. Then again that is highly dependent on your line quality and TV usage. Good luck with it though! Hopefully the techs treat you right and the infrastructure up there is good.



The AT&T distribution box is a couple of short blocks away. They are running a new cable from the pole next door to my house. My internet speed with Time Warner has been about what I pay for and occasionally faster--except when it isn't, like two days ago when it was running 1 Mbps download instead of ~15. If the picture quality is decent (and we're only running one set, and rarely if ever recorded more than 1 or 2 DVR programs at a time), I'll be satisfied.


----------



## Inundated

Noticed tonight on the TWC Navigator box (in the other room) that Fox Sports Ohio's guide data includes the Cincinnati Reds programming we don't get here.


----------



## subavision212

So this is what I have been wondering every time someone mentions "native". Does it actually say native when you go to set output resolution on the cable box? My Cisco Explorer 4640HDC box from TWC has 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and auto select. Does this mean their is no native setting or is auto supposed to do that? Sorry if this a really simple question but I tried searching but couldn't find an answer anywhere.


----------



## Vchat20

If memory serves on Navigator if you make sure all resolutions (sans 'auto select' obviously) it essentially works like a native option. Whatever is checked in that menu is what the box will be capable of outputting and will up/down-scale the nearest resolution. So for example if you just had 480p and 720p checked, 480i would be scaled up to 480p and 1080i would downscale to 720. With all checked if the source content is 480i, box will output 480i. 480p=480p, 720p=720p, and 1080i=1080i.


Auto I believe just checked the TV's info on what its native resolution is and goes for that. Not 100% sure though.


----------



## subavision212

 *Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vchat20*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_23798299
> 
> 
> If memory serves on Navigator if you make sure all resolutions (sans 'auto select' obviously) it essentially works like a native option. Whatever is checked in that menu is what the box will be capable of outputting and will up/down-scale the nearest resolution. So for example if you just had 480p and 720p checked, 480i would be scaled up to 480p and 1080i would downscale to 720. With all checked if the source content is 480i, box will output 480i. 480p=480p, 720p=720p, and 1080i=1080i.
> 
> 
> Auto I believe just checked the TV's info on what its native resolution is and goes for that. Not 100% sure though.


Thanks so much. That's exactly how I have it set up and everything has looked fine, was just never sure.


----------



## greenpjs

Had a strange thing happen last night - I got home at 8:30 and tried to watch NCIS that had been recording on the DVR. The show was there but no audio. I then went back to live because the show was still on. There was audio, but it was the DVS version (Descriptive Video Service for blind and sight impaired). I then backed up to the start of the show and listened to the whole thing with DVS audio. If you have never heard it, it is all the regular audio plus someone's voice saying things like "Gibbs walked into the room" or "Tony looks puzzled". NCIS LA was the same way. The DVR recordings had no audio while the live broadcast had DVS audio. The 10:00 show was normal. Any idea what was going on? Did CBS screw something up? WOIO 19? Time Warner? My cable box? My receiver? Regarding the last two, nothing was set in an unusual way like SAP being on or anything similar - at least not that I have found. Did anyone else experience this? (I'm in the Green area and was watching/recording channel 1009).


Pat


----------



## greenpjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *greenpjs*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_23819083
> 
> 
> Had a strange thing happen last night - I got home at 8:30 and tried to watch NCIS that had been recording on the DVR. The show was there but no audio. I then went back to live because the show was still on. There was audio, but it was the DVS version (Descriptive Video Service for blind and sight impaired). I then backed up to the start of the show and listened to the whole thing with DVS audio. If you have never heard it, it is all the regular audio plus someone's voice saying things like "Gibbs walked into the room" or "Tony looks puzzled". NCIS LA was the same way. The DVR recordings had no audio while the live broadcast had DVS audio. The 10:00 show was normal. Any idea what was going on? Did CBS screw something up? WOIO 19? Time Warner? My cable box? My receiver? Regarding the last two, nothing was set in an unusual way like SAP being on or anything similar - at least not that I have found. Did anyone else experience this? (I'm in the Green area and was watching/recording channel 1009).
> 
> 
> Pat



Update: The DVR rebooted overnight Tuesday. No further problems.


----------



## its.mike

Is anyone else getting redirected to *Kentucky/Tennessee* when you look up the latest Programming Notices?


----------



## Cartman44310

It's been that way for awhile. If you change your location to Columbus (you can use zip code 43216, for example), it will give you a link to get the Ohio notices


----------



## Too_Many_options

Looks like TWC is being bought:


Comcast Set to Acquire Time Warner Cable for $45 Billion

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/comcast-set-to-acquire-time-warner-cable/?_php=true&_type=blogs&smid=tw-bna&_r=0


----------



## hookbill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24351362
> 
> 
> Looks like TWC is being bought:
> 
> 
> Comcast Set to Acquire Time Warner Cable for $45 Billion
> 
> http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/comcast-set-to-acquire-time-warner-cable/?_php=true&_type=blogs&smid=tw-bna&_r=0



I just saw that flash on my AP app on my phone. Lots of ifs here. Wouldn't this be the equivalent of allowing Direct TV and Dish merging? Yes, I know there are other cable companies but the vast majority of people are either on Comcrap or Crime Warner Cable.


Comcast is owned by NBC too, and I wonder how THAT would play into the situation. This will be interesting to watch. I hate to be negative but I don't see the consumer winning on this deal at all.


----------



## domino92024




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24351380
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Too_Many_options*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24351362
> 
> 
> Looks like TWC is being bought:
> 
> 
> Comcast Set to Acquire Time Warner Cable for $45 Billion
> 
> http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/comcast-set-to-acquire-time-warner-cable/?_php=true&_type=blogs&smid=tw-bna&_r=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw that flash on my AP app on my phone. Lots of ifs here. Wouldn't this be the equivalent of allowing Direct TV and Dish merging? Yes, I know there are other cable companies but the vast majority of people are either on Comcrap or Crime Warner Cable.
> 
> 
> Comcast is owned by NBC too,
Click to expand...


No, NBC is owned by Comcast.


----------



## MichaelJay

The merger of Comcast and Time Warner is NOT like Dish and DirecTV merging. Dish and DirecTV are national companies with overlapping customer bases. The merger of the satellite companies would eliminate a provider in the process.


On the other hand, Comcast and TWC are regional providers and do not serve any identical geographic area. The merger of these two companies neither creates a near-monopoly nor eliminates a provider in any one region of the country. It is for this reason that many expect the FCC to give its final approval to the merger.


----------



## Ben Music

Has anyone seen or herd anything about EPIX? TWC was going to offer a 3 mo free trial starting today thru 6/ 18/ 14.

It was going to offer 1 SD and 3 HD channels.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill

Hi Ben. I know nothing about it but you have my curiosity up. Now I could google but for the benefit of others can you explain what EPIX are?


----------



## Ben Music




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hookbill*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24498141
> 
> 
> Hi Ben. I know nothing about it but you have my curiosity up. Now I could google but for the benefit of others can you explain what EPIX are?




EPIX are premium movie channels. I called Time Warner and they told me that they indeed were starting sometime

today.I found the channel numbers but as of now, the programing hasen't started yet. The free trial runs till 6/18/14.

The channel numbers are as follows:

591 EPIX E HD

592 EPIX W HD

593 EPIX 2 HD

594 EPIX 3 HD

595 EPIX Drive In SD


This is all the info I have now. If anything changes, I'll try to let you know. The only thing that seems strange to me

is that HD is usually in the 1000's, not in the 500's.


Ben Music


----------



## hookbill

Strange indeed about the lower numbers, I guess I'll give TiVo a heads up. Thanks.


----------



## Chris Isble

1591-1594 showed up on my channel guide in Windows Media Center. When I tried to tune them, I got an error. Called cablecard support, and they were sure it was a channel mapping problem. After 3 days and numerous call backs, they finally decided that Cleveland wasn't going to get the HD channels, at least not during the preview period.


----------



## dleising

Anybody order/try out one of the DTA adapters that TWC is giving out free until October of 2015? Just curious what channels can be tuned in HD (since it has HDMI out). Looks like TWC is finally starting to shut off some of the analog channels.


----------



## GregF2

I have an old SA dvr that seems to be on its way out. It keeps saying that the dvr is full, when there are only a couple shows on it. A reboot usually fixes this, but it is only temporary. Are there any new dvrs for TW that would be recommended? Can not believe I have had this same dvr for 8 years now. Thanks!


----------



## toby10

Tried reformatting the DVR? May or may not help, but can't hurt (other than losing the few recordings on it).

Or just have TWC replace it.


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GregF2*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24676372
> 
> 
> I have an old SA dvr that seems to be on its way out. It keeps saying that the dvr is full, when there are only a couple shows on it. A reboot usually fixes this, but it is only temporary. Are there any new dvrs for TW that would be recommended? Can not believe I have had this same dvr for 8 years now. Thanks!



The Samsungs and Motorolas seem to be some of the newer devices out there. Try to get one if those.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris Isble

I am getting a one-line text box at the top of my screen, with a message that goes something like this.


Required Weekly Test: The cable system has issued a required weekly test for the following counties: (long list of counties). At 3:24AM on May 11, 2014, effective until 3:39AM. Message from TWCNEO/1.


The message has been repeating all day. If it follows the pattern of the last few weeks, it will be gone tomorrow. Anything recorded today will play back tomorrow without the message. The message continues even if I play back something I recorded a few days ago.


This is only happening on my PC tuner with cable card. The cable box does not show this message.


Is anyone else seeing this? I have been using the PC tuner for almost a year, and this started happening once a week around mid April.


Any ideas what might be causing this, or what I should do?


----------



## Vchat20

What software are you using? I am assuming WMC? Do you happen to have a relatively modern (ie: Past 10 years or newer) set with a QAM tuner you can hook up somewhere? Going by experience I have a 7 year old Panasonic Viera that will display these messages when they come across but in comparison my mom has a cheapie LCD of an older vintage that does not. Merely something to compare to.


I am curious if it is an issue with the software or possibly the signal as if they are repeatedly sending it. Have you tried shutting down the software altogether and launching again to see if it returns?


Also what tuner are you using? HDHR Prime? I seem to have a very vague recollection they had a bug that exhibited this exact same issue. Not sure if it was fixed in an update or not.


----------



## Chris Isble

Yes, I am using Windows Media Center. The tuner is a Ceton InfiniTV 4 PCIe card.


No, I have not tried shutting down and restarting. I tried for a long time to get sleep working on the PC, and discovered that if it is shut down for too long the tuner stops working, and I have to call cablecard support. They check the EMMs, do something on their end, and everything starts working again. So, when I turn things off for the night, I just hit stop to make sure that live TV is turned off and then power off everything but the PC.


The message was gone this morning, so I will have to wait till next week to see if shutting down makes a difference.


If it was an actual test of the emergency broadcast service, I would expect it to run once, and be done. The message looks more like a notice that they are going to run a test. Sometimes I see it before the test time mentioned in the message, but it usually runs for a full day after the test is supposedly complete.


Thanks for the suggestion about it being a bug in the tuner. I will contact Ceton and see what they say.


I was about to say that I haven't changed my system. However, about the time this started I had just returned my DVR, freeing up a cable connection on my splitter. so I used to have the cablecard connected to the output of the tuning adapter, but now it is connected to the splitter. Maybe the problem was always there, but the tuning adapter was blocking the message?


----------



## dleising




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chris Isble*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24708724
> 
> 
> I am getting a one-line text box at the top of my screen, with a message that goes something like this.
> 
> 
> Required Weekly Test: The cable system has issued a required weekly test for the following counties: (long list of counties). At 3:24AM on May 11, 2014, effective until 3:39AM. Message from TWCNEO/1.
> 
> 
> The message has been repeating all day. If it follows the pattern of the last few weeks, it will be gone tomorrow. Anything recorded today will play back tomorrow without the message. The message continues even if I play back something I recorded a few days ago.
> 
> 
> This is only happening on my PC tuner with cable card. The cable box does not show this message.
> 
> 
> Is anyone else seeing this? I have been using the PC tuner for almost a year, and this started happening once a week around mid April.
> 
> 
> Any ideas what might be causing this, or what I should do?



I get them too on WMC. They wont go away for a day or so. Very annoying.


I get them on my Motorola cable box, but it will only display for about 10 mins or so.


----------



## Vchat20

Here's a thread I found on SiliconDust's forum which is actually really recent: http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=17083 Going through it seems that would also effect Ceton's cards too and any other compliant device (Not TWC's own DVR since they use a different 'channel' for EAS messages). Sadly he doesn't indicate which TWC region he's in.


If you have a TV with a QAM tuner (no need for cablecard) and can spare hooking it up even if you don't use the tuner, try that. I know on my set even on other non-tuner inputs the EAS messages still come through. Could be a good comparison to see if it happens there too.


----------



## Chris Isble

Thanks for the link to that thread.


It sounds like TWC is "improving" their EAS system, and is still in denial about the problem. A couple of people I talked to at work told me they are seeing this on their cable box as well.


Since I have a Ceton, it looks like the best solution for me in the short term is to disable EAS forwarding. If/when things settle down, I'll turn it back on so I don't miss anything important.


----------



## shooter21198

I just got TWC's cisco digital adapters, and now i'm also getting the stupid EAS test.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a quick one time thing but it happens every hour.


----------



## MichaelJay

*Time Warner/Comcast merger effect*


Since Comcast will be divesting itself of TWC's Ohio customers and we will be inherited by Charter Communications, does anyone know anything about Charter? Equipment, rates, quality of service?


----------



## Ben Music

I just got a call from TWC saying that some kind of digital changes are coming soon. They mentioned some kind of digital adapter is needed. I already have a tuning adapter for my Tivo S3 HD. Are they the same thing? Do they do the same thing?


Please advise,

Ben Music


----------



## toby10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24754840
> 
> 
> I just got a call from TWC saying that some kind of digital changes are coming soon. They mentioned some kind of digital adapter is needed. I already have a tuning adapter for my Tivo S3 HD. Are they the same thing? Do they do the same thing?
> 
> 
> Please advise,
> 
> Ben Music



Guessing they mean older analog TV's will no longer work with TWC absent the digital adapter.


----------



## nyctveng




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24754840
> 
> 
> I just got a call from TWC saying that some kind of digital changes are coming soon. They mentioned some kind of digital adapter is needed. I already have a tuning adapter for my Tivo S3 HD. Are they the same thing? Do they do the same thing?
> 
> 
> Please advise,
> 
> Ben Music


 http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/residential-home/support/topics/tv/digital-adapters.html


----------



## bgiese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ben Music*  /t/287017/cleveland-oh-twc/23430#post_24754840
> 
> 
> I just got a call from TWC saying that some kind of digital changes are coming soon. They mentioned some kind of digital adapter is needed. I already have a tuning adapter for my Tivo S3 HD. Are they the same thing? Do they do the same thing?
> 
> 
> Please advise,
> 
> Ben Music


They'll be scrambling many of the channels. So if you don't have a TWC box or DVR they won't work. They will provide free adapter but I'm not sure how that works and I believe it's only free for 12 or 18 months.


The letter I saw indicated some channels (probably the locals) will still be available to TVs and other devices that can decode the Clear QAM signal. However the channels and frequency may be moving so you'll need to rescan for channels after the system updates.


I'm using a "Simple TV" DVR and hope all the local channels (and sub channels) are still in the clear.


----------



## subavision212

Just wanted to publicly thank TWC for my $12 monthly increase in my bill! If I just didn't have all these trees....


----------



## Inundated

Late responding here, but about the TWC DTA scrambling:

I only have analog expanded basic here right now, and sure enough, channels like WVPX/23 are only displaying the "get a DTA" static message with a white screen.

I did a clear QAM scan and all the missing channels are there digitally, including Retro TV affiliates WAOH-LP/29 and WIVM-LD/39. (Yes, last I checked, I can now get WIVM via clear QAM in Akron.)

The mess is that there's no PSIP for any of these channels. I believe WAOH is on 97.1 and WIVM is on 90.63, but that's just from memory since I haven't looked in some time.

WVPX has PSIP as usual as WVPX HD, since it always had it since they added the HD feed.

I get scattered local access channels, including for Stow, Silver Lake and Doylestown.

Again, this is all clear QAM only. The only channel I haven't been able to find in this mess is the Akron Public Schools on 15. 15 doesn't have that static message on analog, and I'm sure APS 15 is in the clear QAM scan somewhere...I just haven't gotten to most of the non-labeled channels to check yet.

It is correct that the DTA is only free for a year.


----------



## Goldenager62

I wonder if all of you can help old man. I have "Starter Tv" package now, but I am thinking about getting "Standard TV" package.
My TV can take Cable Card. Is there any advantage of having a cable card over no card and no box. I also plan on using the TWC App for a lot of my viewing. Thanks


----------



## Rbuchina

Goldenager62 said:


> I wonder if all of you can help old man. I have "Starter Tv" package now, but I am thinking about getting "Standard TV" package.
> My TV can take Cable Card. Is there any advantage of having a cable card over no card and no box. I also plan on using the TWC App for a lot of my viewing. Thanks


Goldenager,

I believe there are more disadvantages than advantages. You would not have any interactive features like "On Demand" or "Look Back". The one big advantage is, I belive, a Cable card is charged less than a Cable box. So you would save money. 

Ray


----------



## Goldenager62

Rbuchina said:


> Goldenager,
> 
> I believe there are more disadvantages than advantages. You would not have any interactive features like "On Demand" or "Look Back". The one big advantage is, I belive, a Cable card is charged less than a Cable box. So you would save money.
> 
> Ray


Thanks


----------



## bgiese

Rbuchina said:


> Goldenager,
> 
> You would not have any interactive features like "On Demand" or "Look Back".
> 
> Ray


You would have "on demand" available on the TWC app. I use the app all the time to watch shows. Works great.


----------



## Commodore 64

What's the deal with Channel 8, Fox (21 UHF). I can't seem to get it. I get all of the other stations from that azimuth, but not Fox 8. Is their power weak? I picked up 45 stations with the wineguard box: http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-FL6550A-FlatWave-Outdoor-Antenna/dp/B00E5Z3R6A/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

I also have a 2-bay UHF flyswatter, that I could try as well. Anyone else having trouble picking up Channel 8?


----------



## Inundated

This should be moved to the local OTA thread, but briefly... WJW Channel 8 is RF 8. VHF. Is your antenna good on VHF? What part of town?


----------



## Commodore 64

Inundated said:


> This should be moved to the local OTA thread, but briefly... WJW Channel 8 is RF 8. VHF. Is your antenna good on VHF? What part of town?


I made another post in the right area (OTA) sorry about that and thank you for responding.


----------



## scnrfrq

*DVR Slow*

If anyone is still on this thread, have you noticed lately that the DVR responses to the remote is very slow? Sometimes takes 2-3 seconds for a response in the guide or list. Just came back from vacation, and it wasn't like that before. Did they do an update of some kind?


----------



## Gary16

Deleted


----------



## greenpjs

I had an interesting experience at the Chapel Hill location yesterday. I have 2 DVRs. They are usually controlled using the remotes that came with my TVs but I occasionally use the TWC supplied remotes for certain functions. One of the TWC remotes started acting flakey a few years ago, so I switched to the other one on the DVR I usually use. Recent, that remote also started acting flakey as well. For example, pressing volume down caused zeroes to be sent. The DVR would record the zeroes and then question channel number 0000. I took both of the bad remotes to the Chapel Hill location (actually across the street from Chapel Hill). As I approached the desk, the guy saw I had two remotes in my hand, reached behind him, grabbed two new ones, and swapped the new ones for my old ones without even asking for my name or what symptoms I was experiencing. A painless but surprising experience. He didn't even ask if I tried new batteries. I assume those newer remotes (the ones with a D button in addition to A, B, C) have had lots of problems.


----------



## MichaelJay

Obama's comments yesterday about making the Internet a "public utility" and empowering the FCC to force net neutrality on the telecoms sent both Time Warner and Comcast stock dropping about 5%. In other words, the market is skittish that the cost of this merger isn't worth having the Federal government controlling their services and pricing. Since Comcast never negotiated a breakup fee, they are free to walk from this deal if the government mucks up the works too much. As bad as Time Warner can be, the uncertainty of becoming a Charter Communications customer scares me more. Time will tell.


----------



## greenpjs

Anyone know why Time Warner (Green) thinks the world is ending on Monday night? The guide shows no shows on any station after midnight Monday night. I have tried rebooting both DVRs but from Tuesday forward is blank.


----------



## greenpjs

greenpjs said:


> Anyone know why Time Warner (Green) thinks the world is ending on Monday night? The guide shows no shows on any station after midnight Monday night. I have tried rebooting both DVRs but from Tuesday forward is blank.



Whatever the problem was, it has now been fixed. The guide goes forward a week again.


----------



## subavision212

Tried a search here but couldn't find an answer so I'll just ask this basic question. Just bought my first on demand movie through TWC (The Babadook) and it seems to have been only in stereo. I have a surround setup but it was display pro logic so do all on demand films not have 5.1 or does it vary from film to film. The other streaming services like Amazon had the film marked with 5.1. Just curious and thanks for the replies.


----------



## stuart628

so anyone know when TWC wants to get these 3 things done

#1 . Auto HD
#2 . All Digital
#3 . Higher internet speed bump up

I am in the akron Area (Green) and REALLY want AutoHD as that is the one thing I miss from Directv. A little better PQ would be nice as well, and Higher internet speed would be icicng...or are we waiting till we get charter to have all that happen


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## stuart628

so now what for TWC in Cleveland....I am guessing charter will buy TWC out..would be nice if Google would


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## MichaelJay

Funny that Comcast gave up the fight so easily. Time Warner never negotiated a break-up fee from Comcast, so no skin off Comcast's back to say "see ya later." 

Either Charter makes a bid on Time Warner or vice versa. We in NE Ohio would have ended up as Charter customers anyway as part of Concast deal, but now Time Warner could potentially be the acquirer instead of the acquiree.


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## stuart628

MichaelJay said:


> Funny that Comcast gave up the fight so easily. Time Warner never negotiated a break-up fee from Comcast, so no skin off Comcast's back to say "see ya later."
> 
> Either Charter makes a bid on Time Warner or vice versa. We in NE Ohio would have ended up as Charter customers anyway as part of Concast deal, but now Time Warner could potentially be the acquirer instead of the acquiree.


I see you are from Green and another poster is as well...is our cable behind everyone else because of being the OLD adelphia cable or are we all caught up now? by the way Auto HD is beginning 4/30-5/14 they are turning on areas any time in those dates....also 6 tuner coming in middle of may


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## Inundated

I think Green is the old Marks Cablevision. (That's Marks, not a guy named Mark.) 

And it does appear that Charter will go after TWC on its own now that the Comcast deal is dead...


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## stuart628

Inundated said:


> I think Green is the old Marks Cablevision. (That's Marks, not a guy named Mark.)
> 
> And it does appear that Charter will go after TWC on its own now that the Comcast deal is dead...



you might be right, I just know the office they had was on 619, that turned into a time warner office, which was shut down...i am guessing its the headend for the area(or am I wrong?) as it is still used by time warner and has the satellites and antenna on the property.


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## dleising

Here in Stow TW moved a bunch of clear QAM channels around a couple weeks ago. I've heard that those with Internet only service (having a filter for just Internet freq's) no longer are getting the local channels "in the clear" as they did prior. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rbuchina

*HD locals remapped*

This morning I noticed TWC here in Mentor has the HD locals remapped to their SD channels (2-10). The original local HDs are still their (1002-1010). 

I also had a my DVR box power Reset or upgrade its software last week. The box output changed from 1080i to 480i and my picture became a small screen within my full TV screen. I needed to go into the settings Menu and reset the box output to where it should be.

Ray


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## MichaelJay

*General Time Warner stuff*

I recently moved to Jackson Township in Stark County, so my TWC comments apply to that location. I know there have been a lot of negative comments about TWC's service, but from a technical perspective, I have had no problems at all for four years. (Hope I didn't just jinx myself.) 


My consistent gripe is with their price increases, but those always seem to get resolved to my satisfaction. Most recently, a $10 Turbo Internet fee magically appeared on my bill, six months after I was assured my cost was fixed for a year. When I phone, I always threaten to move to satellite and UVerse if not pleased, and I always end up in the hands of the Customer Retention rep. By the time that phone call was finished, I kept Preferred TV with my current DVR and an extra set top box, added the Sports package, and increased my Internet speed from 20/2 to 30/5 at a cost a few dollars less per month than I was paying. The all-in cost, including tax, is $122/mo. I'm happy. I don't have phone service with TWC, just cell phones with Verizon.


So my recommendation is to call TWC and complain, and if you are truly not pissed, act like you are truly pissed so you can talk to the people who can make you unpissed.


----------



## stuart628

6 tuner dvr is now available, take your time getting it as I have a tech call for saturday to bring mine to me and want to make sure they have plenty


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## MichaelJay

stuart628 said:


> 6 tuner dvr is now available, take your time getting it as I have a tech call for saturday to bring mine to me and want to make sure they have plenty


I'm impressed that you discovered that such a monster was available. Once yours is installed, we would all appreciate a report from you. Who's the manufacturer?


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## stuart628

MichaelJay said:


> I'm impressed that you discovered that such a monster was available. Once yours is installed, we would all appreciate a report from you. Who's the manufacturer?



I believe it will be arris I will post pics up tomorrow...I have a cisco 4742hdc I will pair it with unless told otherwise


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## stuart628

Wow this box is fast nothing to report as I just got it installed and took the kids swimming but it boots and operates so stinking fast even the tech saw it as well and liked how quick it was. Also i know my signal always g
Toed the line but with this box j had to have a amp installed (I am too far off the road). This box is well worth cost!!!!!










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## stuart628

Sorry about cables I put it in a side room with plans on moving it to theater/main room



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## Inundated

WEWS 5.3 "LAFF" was on an unlabeled QAM channel, but just yesterday, started with a 5.3 label. I didn't even have to rescan channels.


----------



## MaximusMMIV

So for those wanting a report about the "Enhanced DVR"...

I rushed out and grabbed one of these after work today once I discovered that they had become available. The press release from 5/27 states that they're available for "Central Ohio" but a quick conversation with @TWCHelp on Twitter revealed that the entire midwest can get them now.

The box is the Cisco 9865HDC. It's lightning, lightning fast. It boots up fast. It runs fast. The new UI is available as a feature that you have to turn on in the menus. It's definitely built off of the same platform as the previous UI (which is still available to use on the box) but it's laid out more sensibly. I've gotten most of my shows set to record again, but it appears to be reliant on the web platform (think iOS app, twctv.com, etc.) in order to work properly. My account is still updating to reflect the new MAC address and new box, so right now all the shows I've set to record have not shown up in my series manager. Once it's reporting to the web platform, I'll check back to make sure everything is working properly.

Other than that, there's not much to say. 1 TB of space and six tuners... totally worth the +$10 TWC will charge you to convert to one of these if you're a heavy usage household.


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## subavision212

Is it just me or has anyone else experienced a huge increase in sound volume everytime a TWC promo commercial comes on? It happens every time on any station (I'm talking on the HD tier). It is at least 8-10 clicks higher than what I have my sound bar is set at before the commercial starts. It's a real pain. Just wondering.


----------



## dleising

subavision212 said:


> Is it just me or has anyone else experienced a huge increase in sound volume everytime a TWC promo commercial comes on? It happens every time on any station (I'm talking on the HD tier). It is at least 8-10 clicks higher than what I have my sound bar is set at before the commercial starts. It's a real pain. Just wondering.



Oh yes. It's out of hand. 


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## subavision212

So I finally purchased my own modem and when I returned the one I was renting to TWC the very nice woman behind the counter checked my account and said my bill was pretty high considering the specials (?) they were running and promptly reduced my bill from $185 to $126 a month for all the same services! I asked would this eventually change and she said it would probably go up about 20 bucks after a year but all I had to do was come back in and they would adjust it. I was so shocked I actually moved up to the middle tier internet service so for the next year at least my bill we be around $140 bucks. They also reduced my mom's bill from $140 to $86. I was just wondering if this is fallout from the increase in cable cutting. Might be having more of an affect on cable companies than we really know. So if you've been paying the same amount for a long while, give TWC a call and see if you can get a reduced rate, too.


----------



## shooter21198

subavision212 said:


> So I finally purchased my own modem and when I returned the one I was renting to TWC the very nice woman behind the counter checked my account and said my bill was pretty high considering the specials (?) they were running and promptly reduced my bill from $185 to $126 a month for all the same services! I asked would this eventually change and she said it would probably go up about 20 bucks after a year but all I had to do was come back in and they would adjust it. I was so shocked I actually moved up to the middle tier internet service so for the next year at least my bill we be around $140 bucks. They also reduced my mom's bill from $140 to $86. I was just wondering if this is fallout from the increase in cable cutting. Might be having more of an affect on cable companies than we really know. So if you've been paying the same amount for a long while, give TWC a call and see if you can get a reduced rate, too.


I've noticed that my bill is around $125+ and with standard internet.
It was supposed to be closer to 150, but I think they re-upped me for the internet promo price.
Didn't even have to threaten to switch to DirecTV this time


----------



## scnrfrq

MaximusMMIV said:


> So for those wanting a report about the "Enhanced DVR"...
> 
> I rushed out and grabbed one of these after work today once I discovered that they had become available. The press release from 5/27 states that they're available for "Central Ohio" but a quick conversation with @TWCHelp on Twitter revealed that the entire midwest can get them now.
> 
> The box is the Cisco 9865HDC. It's lightning, lightning fast. It boots up fast. It runs fast. The new UI is available as a feature that you have to turn on in the menus. It's definitely built off of the same platform as the previous UI (which is still available to use on the box) but it's laid out more sensibly. I've gotten most of my shows set to record again, but it appears to be reliant on the web platform (think iOS app, twctv.com, etc.) in order to work properly. My account is still updating to reflect the new MAC address and new box, so right now all the shows I've set to record have not shown up in my series manager. Once it's reporting to the web platform, I'll check back to make sure everything is working properly.
> 
> Other than that, there's not much to say. 1 TB of space and six tuners... totally worth the +$10 TWC will charge you to convert to one of these if you're a heavy usage household.


Any more details on how well this new DVR works? Has anyone else got one and can give a review?


----------



## MichaelJay

*HD feeds on all TW channels*

It looks like all the channels are being broadcast in HD now. In the past, only those channels in the 1000s were in HD. For example, ESPN is high def on 33, 301 and 1301. Channels that were never HD -- ESPN Classic, for example -- are unaffected. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## Inundated

I know even sometime ago, locals on 3, 5, 8, 19 etc. were subbed out on the lower channels with a digital SD feed if you have a box. 

I still see these SD feeds on my set today. 13-170 is 8, 13-171 is 3, etc. 

All the 13-x feeds are 480i, and all are in addition to the properly mapped HD/subchannel feeds (3-1, 3-2, 3-3, 5-1, 5-2, 5-3, etc.).


----------



## Rbuchina

MichaelJay said:


> It looks like all the channels are being broadcast in HD now. In the past, only those channels in the 1000s were in HD. For example, ESPN is high def on 33, 301 and 1301. Channels that were never HD -- ESPN Classic, for example -- are unaffected. Has anyone else noticed this?


MichaelJay,

I posted back in early May when the local HDs were first remapped to the low single digit channels. I wish TWC would eliminate all the duplicate channels.

Ray


----------



## Inundated

Rbuchina said:


> MichaelJay,
> 
> I posted back in early May when the local HDs were first remapped to the low single digit channels. I wish TWC would eliminate all the duplicate channels.
> 
> Ray


Are there still SD-only boxes on TWC NEO? Maybe that's why those SD versions of the locals are still there.


----------



## MichaelJay

Rbuchina said:


> MichaelJay,
> 
> I posted back in early May when the local HDs were first remapped to the low single digit channels. I wish TWC would eliminate all the duplicate channels.
> 
> Ray


Ray, is it possible TW rolled this out at different times in northeast Ohio? I know I've mistakenly gone back to the single-digit feeds many times since May and this is the first I've seen them in high-def. And I agree with you -- TW should simplify their lineup.


----------



## MichaelJay

Inundated said:


> Are there still SD-only boxes on TWC NEO? Maybe that's why those SD versions of the locals are still there.


I spoke with a TW techie on an unrelated matter but then asked why high-def signals were appearing where SD feeds once reigned. Apparently TW can now detect the type of box one has and sends along the correct feed. (Somehow that explanation seemed a little patronizing, but I let it go.) So if one has a high-def box, you will no longer receive any SD signals.


----------



## Inundated

MichaelJay said:


> I spoke with a TW techie on an unrelated matter but then asked why high-def signals were appearing where SD feeds once reigned. Apparently TW can now detect the type of box one has and sends along the correct feed. (Somehow that explanation seemed a little patronizing, but I let it go.) So if one has a high-def box, you will no longer receive any SD signals.


And as such, SD boxes get those SD digital duplicates, and of course, analog customers get the analog locals. 

At some point, TWC will presumably go with DTAs, killing analog entirely.


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## cc_in_oh

Inundated said:


> And as such, SD boxes get those SD digital duplicates, and of course, analog customers get the analog locals.
> 
> At some point, TWC will presumably go with DTAs, killing analog entirely.


I'm surprised by how little they've changed - never expected unscrambled analog or digital to last this long. I figured maybe the Comcast and now Charter deals incentivized them to avoid changes and minimize complaint volume?

They did kill off WGN on channel 18, but then brought it back on 118.55 - that must have been at least a year ago now?


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## subavision212

Sorry for the long sob story, just wondering if anyone else is having any internet speed and streaming problems since TWC two outages in the Akron area. So it seems that early in the week according to TWC, they did have two outages in the NE Ohio area, the second one, according to the voice on the phone, was major to the point where customers could lose half or all their services. The first, they said on the phone, was an outage and that work was being done in the area. I mention this because I was wondering if anyone else has developed problems with their internet downloads and streaming. My service has been perfect for nearly two months. Bought my own modem (TWC approved and new dual band router) and once a new heavy duty line was replaced to my house everything couldn't have been better. Internet speeds in the upper 20's. Then the first outage occurred and I couldn't log into the TWC Roku channel. Waited till morning after hearing the recorded message and yes I could sign in and all was right with the world. Until that night when my 30Mbps service dropped into single digits and I couldn't use any channels on the Roku. Anyway, tried working with an online guy who took control of my computer, was changing setting in my router and doing whatever when everything shut down. This was when I called the second time and heard about the second, more serious outage. I called in the morning around 9am and they said that service had been restored and sure enough my internet speeds were again in the 19-25 range. Until about four hours later when I tried to watch something and sure enough the speeds had again dropped into the single digits. Tried working with two TWC customer reps, one who did seem to restore my speeds, but for only 45 minutes when the bottomed out again. Second CR tried hard also but speed tests with the TWC speed test and Speedtest.net both showed single digits and the modem was working fine and she said something was definitely wrong and so I have a technician coming Sunday to do what they do. Other than buying a new iMac, nothing was changed or was altered on any of my devices since the first tech came and installed the new outside line. Can't understand what is going on and have to give the TWC customer reps a hand, they tried hard but couldn't solve the problem. So anyone else have a sad story like this or experiences problems. I'll check back on Sunday after the problem is hopefully solved (and that it has nothing to do with my modem (which is a Surfboard SB6141 DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem) or router, a TP-Link AC1750 Wireless dual band Gigabit device.


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## subavision212

So as the follow up, turns out what was causing the problem was that the coding for my new, personal modem was being combined with coding for, I think he said, my old TWC modem and causing all the really bad slowdowns for my internet speeds. Funny thing was that my technician (nice job, Eric) said the job before mine was the exact same problem, only with video. So even though the customer reps that tried to help me did their best, they had no idea this was happening. The outages were because of work TWC is doing on setting up newer, high speed lines and that was probably what caused my problem. He made a phone call and everything is back up and working.


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## subavision212

Gee, what a shocker. Yet ANOTHER outage with TWC.


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## milehighou

What does everyone think of the color on HD programming on TWC? To me, it looks pretty drab. I know the correct setting on my Samsung TV is 50, but that it with bluray material. Anyone bump up their color, and (for samsung users) are you using 'auto' or 'native' color space?


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## MichaelJay

milehighou said:


> What does everyone think of the color on HD programming on TWC? To me, it looks pretty drab. I know the correct setting on my Samsung TV is 50, but that it with bluray material. Anyone bump up their color, and (for samsung users) are you using 'auto' or 'native' color space?


 
I would suggest doing a search for your particular Samsung model. Often reviewers -- particularly CNET -- or commenters will provide the settings that provide what they consider an ideal picture. You may still have to tweak for your particular setting, but I have found those suggestions to get closer to perfect than anything I could ever devise on my own.


----------



## WilliamR

I upgraded to TWC's enhanced DVR unit. Wow, where have you been all my life. It can record 6 shows at once, has 150 hours of storage, and some nice features like being able to stream the content to devices in other rooms. The fast forward is insanely fast and makes things almost like a blur. Very responsive unit, you hit list and select a show and it starts playing almost before you release the button. Leaps and bounds above their other DVRs (still probably falls way short of big name units out there though). Great unit, highly recommend it to those interested.


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## dleising

WilliamR said:


> I upgraded to TWC's enhanced DVR unit. Wow, where have you been all my life. It can record 6 shows at once, has 150 hours of storage, and some nice features like being able to stream the content to devices in other rooms. The fast forward is insanely fast and makes things almost like a blur. Very responsive unit, you hit list and select a show and it starts playing almost before you release the button. Leaps and bounds above their other DVRs (still probably falls way short of big name units out there though). Great unit, highly recommend it to those interested.



Sounds nice. Worth the extra $400/mth in equipment fees though? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WilliamR

dleising said:


> Sounds nice. Worth the extra $400/mth in equipment fees though?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, it was an extra $26 a month (actually $21 extra since I turned I my old one that was $5 a month). Kind of steep but I think worth it for the 6 recordings alone.


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## cc_in_oh

WilliamR said:


> Yeah, it was an extra $26 a month (actually $21 extra since I turned I my old one that was $5 a month). Kind of steep but I think worth it for the 6 recordings alone.


26 isn't too bad for that if you need the 6 tuners. It would be overkill for me, not having any premium channels, not a sports fan, and not minding the delay to catch up via on-demand...


----------



## milehighou

Anyone notice a weird issue with letterbox content on TWC? I only saw this while flipping through a few of the movie channels (TMC and showtime). As the picture changes, the black bars don't stay black. There are intermittent flashes where they get a little lighter. If I get really close to the screen, it kind of looks like compression artifacts.


----------



## Brenda Johnson

*Anyone having trouble with sound?*

I just got the 9865HDC and am having trouble getting Dolby 5.1 using HDMI. All I get is PCM 2.0, regardless of settings. I have noticed some users on other forums have had a problem with this, but none has come up with a solution.


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## toby10

HDMI to what? TV? Receiver/amp?
Check audio settings in the cable box? Set to Dolby 5.1?
Sure the channel you are watching is 5.1? Many are just 2.0


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## Brenda Johnson

toby10 said:


> HDMI to what? TV? Receiver/amp?
> Check audio settings in the cable box? Set to Dolby 5.1?
> Sure the channel you are watching is 5.1? Many are just 2.0


HDMI to my Pioneer SC-1223K amp, CBS on HD. The Grammies, in fact. I wouldn't expect that to broadcast in two channel. And given that I had been getting more than PCM 2.0 on the same channels with the crappy Scientific Atlanta box I traded out, I don't think it's the broadcast. I checked audio settings on the box multiple times. Settings options are limited to "HDMI" and "Dolby," but HDMI leaves me with PCM 2.0 and "Dolby" just reverts back to "HDMI." Other folks have reported this problem on other forums, but no solutions. http://forums.timewarnercable.com/t...al-Keeps-reverting-back-to-PCM-2-0/td-p/79676


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## TomGen

Today, my TV found and added TV channel 8.5 WJW-DT5 in Cleveland. The channel is black with no programming being transmitted. Does anyone know what they are planning to add on that subchannel?


----------



## JJkizak

I don't even have 8.3 or .4 yet.
JJK


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## cc_in_oh

JJkizak said:


> I don't even have 8.3 or .4 yet.
> JJK


Same here, but my channels don't scan the same on all devices - e.g. my recorders find mostly scrambled channels on 118.x except a few like WGN on 118.55. My TV only finds a bunch of music channels there. (Neither finds 8.3, 4 or 5)...


----------



## cc_in_oh

What was the problem last night - Both 5.1 and 19.1 were constantly breaking up?


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## cc_in_oh

Anyone else getting "BBCA currently unavailable"? I couldn't record The Living and the Dead last night...


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## milehighou

For those with Samsung TVs, are you guys using Digital Clean View when watching so-called HD cable? I've found that the PQ is pretty awful with it turned off, especially in darker scenes. The two biggest issues seem to be mosquito noise that is constantly moving around in the background, and also on people's faces. The other thing is the block-type artifacts. I'm sure my 65" TV just magnifies the effect, as I don't remember it being nearly as offensive on a smaller screen.

Anyway, bottom line (unless there is something wrong with my equipment) most of the channels look like crap. If I turn on DCV, it makes a significant difference, but at the expense of a little blur. I'm still wondering about the best setting—low, auto or something else?


----------



## GregF2

So, I think TW officially becomes Spectrum today. It looks like the channel packages have changed too. The channels I currently get look like they are part of the gold package now, which forces you to get the movie channels. Not sure if I like the change yet and how the pricing will be different, when my current offers expire next month.

When will the Internet speeds increase in the Cleveland area?


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## dleising

GregF2 said:


> So, I think TW officially becomes Spectrum today. It looks like the channel packages have changed too. The channels I currently get look like they are part of the gold package now, which forces you to get the movie channels. Not sure if I like the change yet and how the pricing will be different, when my current offers expire next month.
> 
> 
> 
> When will the Internet speeds increase in the Cleveland area?




It does seem they are transitioning or just have. I rebooted my modem and connected to 16x4 channels (from 12x4). I'm getting about 70 megs down now when I was getting a little over 60 on the legacy 50/5 internet plan. Upload speeds are unchanged if not a bit slower. It would seem that the 100mbps and 300mbps plans (if they will even exist in NEO) should be available however I'm not seeing anything on their website. I may call however I don't really want to pay more than my promo plan now...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cc_in_oh

Still getting unscrambled analog and local digitals thankfully...


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## oriolesmagic

cc_in_oh said:


> Still getting unscrambled analog and local digitals thankfully...


That will change in the not too distant future. One of the changes Spectrum will surely make is going all encrypted digital, as they have in other markets. OH is one of the few untouched markets left at this time as TWC was rolling through their upgrades before the Charter purchase.


----------



## GregF2

Anyone have an update on Spectrum?



GregF2 said:


> So, I think TW officially becomes Spectrum today. It looks like the channel packages have changed too. The channels I currently get look like they are part of the gold package now, which forces you to get the movie channels. Not sure if I like the change yet and how the pricing will be different, when my current offers expire next month.
> 
> When will the Internet speeds increase in the Cleveland area?


----------



## dleising

GregF2 said:


> Anyone have an update on Spectrum?




Seems like all markets have been converted. You should be able to call in and get Spectrum promos and/or 60mb internet. I've heard 100 meg is not available yet. 


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## oriolesmagic

dleising said:


> Seems like all markets have been converted. You should be able to call in and get Spectrum promos and/or 60mb internet. I've heard 100 meg is not available yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


All of OH has been converted. Within the former TWC footprint, I don't think some portions out west (ID), the Carolinas, Upstate NY and New England have been converted yet to Spectrum. Neither has Oceanic in Hawaii.


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## scnrfrq

*Spectrum - Be Careful What You Wish For*

I live in the Erie, PA area and have been talking to Spectrum about converting to their packages. Problem is I keep getting different stories on the phone and on chat. Of course I'd like to double my internet speed to 60, which would require a new modem, but they'd send it to me and have no monthly charge. That part sounds OK. But things got confusing when it came to DVR's and channels available. 

First they said I couldn't keep my enhanced DVR's (which I really like), then they said I could, then I couldn't. Also, they only offer one model DVR, which only stores 35 hours of programs, and can only record 2 shows at once!! It's like going back in time 10 years with Time Warner. Also, one station I have to have is only listed in the Miscellaneous section of their channels lineup (https://www.timewarnercable.com/content/twc/en/tv/channels-lineup.html/). I asked about it, and first they said if you get the Gold package you get all channels, the later they said none of the Misc. channels are available in my zip code????

After all that discussion, they would only lower my bill by $17, so its not worth it to me to take chances. They also said all current TW customers are grandfathered, and wouldn't be made to change to Spectrum's plans. So I'm stayin as is for now. 30 Mbps is fast enough for me, and we have a fiber optic company installing cable here to offer 150 Mbps as its slowest speed.


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## cc_in_oh

scnrfrq said:


> I live in the Erie, PA area and have been talking to Spectrum about converting to their packages. Problem is I keep getting different stories on the phone and on chat. Of course I'd like to double my internet speed to 60, which would require a new modem, but they'd send it to me and have no monthly charge. That part sounds OK. But things got confusing when it came to DVR's and channels available.
> 
> First they said I couldn't keep my enhanced DVR's (which I really like), then they said I could, then I couldn't. Also, they only offer one model DVR, which only stores 35 hours of programs, and can only record 2 shows at once!! It's like going back in time 10 years with Time Warner. Also, one station I have to have is only listed in the Miscellaneous section of their channels lineup (https://www.timewarnercable.com/content/twc/en/tv/channels-lineup.html/). I asked about it, and first they said if you get the Gold package you get all channels, the later they said none of the Misc. channels are available in my zip code????
> 
> After all that discussion, they would only lower my bill by $17, so its not worth it to me to take chances. They also said all current TW customers are grandfathered, and wouldn't be made to change to Spectrum's plans. So I'm stayin as is for now. 30 Mbps is fast enough for me, and we have a fiber optic company installing cable here to offer 150 Mbps as its slowest speed.


I'm skipping their offers for now - IIRC the fine print indicated an undisclosed bump in year 2. I'm also guessing taxes and fees would soak up the few dollars of nominal savings, and switching might trigger immediate loss of unscrambled channels.

I am hoping that eventually Spectrum credentials will access more streaming sources - TWC excluded TNT, SYFY, AMC and others. I think BBCA, FX and HIST were the only ones I was ever able to get any use out of...


----------



## snowdog 88

milehighou said:


> For those with Samsung TVs, are you guys using Digital Clean View when watching so-called HD cable? I've found that the PQ is pretty awful with it turned off, especially in darker scenes. The two biggest issues seem to be mosquito noise that is constantly moving around in the background, and also on people's faces. The other thing is the block-type artifacts. I'm sure my 65" TV just magnifies the effect, as I don't remember it being nearly as offensive on a smaller screen.
> 
> Anyway, bottom line (unless there is something wrong with my equipment) most of the channels look like crap. If I turn on DCV, it makes a significant difference, but at the expense of a little blur. I'm still wondering about the best setting—low, auto or something else?


I watch with an antenna, and with the digital clean view turned on, the picture does get a little cleaner on the 480i channels. MPEG artifacting is also less noticeable as well as composite artifacts. However, as you mentioned, there is motion blur with it turned on. For this reason, I keep the digital clean view setting off. Even with it off, the artifacting on my Samsung (46" 1080p) isn't too bad. In fact, compression artifacts are less noticeable compared to my old HDTV, which has a 37" 720p display. As you stated, larger screens will increase the uglyness of the MPEG compression artifacts. If your TV is 4K, lower resolution channels will look very soft and smudgy.

Check your connections going between your cable box and TV. Make sure you are using a HDMI cable as this will give you the best picture possible. If you are using an HDMI cable, make sure your cable box is outputting a 1080p signal, then set the zoom setting on your TV to screen fit as this can slightly help improve sharpness by not over-scanning the picture.


----------



## scnrfrq

scnrfrq said:


> I live in the Erie, PA area and have been talking to Spectrum about converting to their packages. Problem is I keep getting different stories on the phone and on chat. Of course I'd like to double my internet speed to 60, which would require a new modem, but they'd send it to me and have no monthly charge. That part sounds OK. But things got confusing when it came to DVR's and channels available.
> 
> First they said I couldn't keep my enhanced DVR's (which I really like), then they said I could, then I couldn't. Also, they only offer one model DVR, which only stores 35 hours of programs, and can only record 2 shows at once!! It's like going back in time 10 years with Time Warner. Also, one station I have to have is only listed in the Miscellaneous section of their channels lineup (https://www.timewarnercable.com/content/twc/en/tv/channels-lineup.html/). I asked about it, and first they said if you get the Gold package you get all channels, the later they said none of the Misc. channels are available in my zip code????
> 
> After all that discussion, they would only lower my bill by $17, so its not worth it to me to take chances. They also said all current TW customers are grandfathered, and wouldn't be made to change to Spectrum's plans. So I'm stayin as is for now. 30 Mbps is fast enough for me, and we have a fiber optic company installing cable here to offer 150 Mbps as its slowest speed.


Update: Just got off the phone with Spectrum again. My bill just went up $20/month and I asked them why and what they could do about the promotion that went up. The answer - NOTHING! They said they won't be recognizing any of Time Warner's promotions/sales. I then asked what they could offer me. Again - NOTHING! They won't be offering any promotions of their own, now or in the future. They only offer "standardized" pricing. Basically, take it or leave it. Also today I got an email from our new fiber optic company, who will offer internet up to 1000 mbps, TV with DVR's that can record 8 shows at once, and cheap phone service. This is sounding better all the time!


----------



## dleising

scnrfrq said:


> Update: Just got off the phone with Spectrum again. My bill just went up $20/month and I asked them why and what they could do about the promotion that went up. The answer - NOTHING! They said they won't be recognizing any of Time Warner's promotions/sales. I then asked what they could offer me. Again - NOTHING! They won't be offering any promotions of their own, now or in the future. They only offer "standardized" pricing. Basically, take it or leave it. Also today I got an email from our new fiber optic company, who will offer internet up to 1000 mbps, TV with DVR's that can record 8 shows at once, and cheap phone service. This is sounding better all the time!




Who is this "new fiberoptic company"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scnrfrq

dleising said:


> Who is this "new fiberoptic company"?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is VNET Fiber in Erie, PA. Their website: https://www.vnetfiber.com/


----------



## dleising

scnrfrq said:


> It is VNET Fiber in Erie, PA. Their website: https://www.vnetfiber.com/




Lucky you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dealer6871

My Time Warner bill went up $15.00 this month. Called Spectrum and they said that I had a Time Warner promotional discount that had expired. Asked if they had something better to offer, since WOW was wiring our area. Response was yes, but I had to convert from Time Warner to Spectrum. That was confusing, since I thought they were now one and the same. Yes and no. Apparently they still operate as individual companies as far as packages are concerned and that the customer has to request a transfer over to Spectrum. I did and saved about $15.00 a month at a non promotional rate. Also received more channels. Bundled my phone and dropped Frontier, which saved me another $40.00 per month. Was told to call back in 30-60 days and I might be able to get some additional promotional discounts. So far I like the change and have no complaints. 


FYI. The tech that was out told me that analog will be going away in July. You will no longer be able to plug the cable directly into the outlet or use the adapter box. You will have to go with a DVR, although Spectrum's prices are lower than Time Warner.


----------



## scnrfrq

dealer6871 said:


> My Time Warner bill went up $15.00 this month. Called Spectrum and they said that I had a Time Warner promotional discount that had expired. Asked if they had something better to offer, since WOW was wiring our area. Response was yes, but I had to convert from Time Warner to Spectrum. That was confusing, since I thought they were now one and the same. Yes and no. Apparently they still operate as individual companies as far as packages are concerned and that the customer has to request a transfer over to Spectrum. I did and saved about $15.00 a month at a non promotional rate. Also received more channels. Bundled my phone and dropped Frontier, which saved me another $40.00 per month. Was told to call back in 30-60 days and I might be able to get some additional promotional discounts. So far I like the change and have no complaints.
> 
> 
> FYI. The tech that was out told me that analog will be going away in July. You will no longer be able to plug the cable directly into the outlet or use the adapter box. You will have to go with a DVR, although Spectrum's prices are lower than Time Warner.


Hmm...they told me no promotions. I get different stories from different people there. What adapter box do you mean? I would think you could still use a cable box that wasn't a DVR?


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## dealer6871

The adapter box allowed those individuals with no cable box to view analog channels. Apparently in some areas you could no longer run the cable directly into the wall jack Think it was free. In my case I had the cable into the jack in a spare bedroom. Now I'll have to get a regular box if I want to continue to view Spectrum.

There were no promotions on the conversion/upgrade from Time Warner, but I still saved money. CS said to call back in a month or two and they might have something they could offer to further lower the cost. 


QUOTE=scnrfrq;50949297]Hmm...they told me no promotions. I get different stories from different people there. What adapter box do you mean? I would think you could still use a cable box that wasn't a DVR?[/QUOTE]


----------



## cc_in_oh

dealer6871 said:


> The adapter box allowed those individuals with no cable box to view analog channels. Apparently in some areas you could no longer run the cable directly into the wall jack Think it was free. In my case I had the cable into the jack in a spare bedroom. Now I'll have to get a regular box if I want to continue to view Spectrum.
> 
> There were no promotions on the conversion/upgrade from Time Warner, but I still saved money. CS said to call back in a month or two and they might have something they could offer to further lower the cost.
> 
> 
> QUOTE=scnrfrq;50949297]Hmm...they told me no promotions. I get different stories from different people there. What adapter box do you mean? I would think you could still use a cable box that wasn't a DVR?


[/QUOTE]

That's the first I've heard of that too - I assumed all subscribers got the unscrambled analog and local digital channels directly from the cable...


----------



## dealer6871

This is the explanation. Like I said however, you'll now be forced to get a cable box for every room as the adapter box is now being phased out as well as analog channels. 

"A Digital Adapter is a small converter that allows viewing of digital TV services on your television. An adapter is about the size of a deck of cards.
If you connect your TV set directly from the wall with a cable wire, you will need equipment, such as a Digital Adapter, for every TV in your home."


----------



## Jbhur212

So I discovered I can't get the local HD channels anymore (audio plays but no video on 3.1, 5.1, etc.) after buying my new 4K display for my bedroom which is what has been posted would happen. Just didn't know it had happened. No biggie since I will just use the Spectrum channel on my Roku Ultra. What's strange is how confusing the whole update thing is right now. I eventually just upgraded my internet speed from turbo to the next level (forgot what it's called) and apparently if you don't switch to Spectrum that $10 increase in speed and the $40 increase is all you can get now by staying as TWC. If you want the 60 or 100 Mbps you have to switch and depending on what channel package you have you are sort of screwed. With my current channel package I would have to enroll in their gold package unless I wanted to lose a bunch of channels and to add the 60 Mbps to the gold my bill would have gone up from 164.60 to 197.00. No one was offering any type of discounts. Very confusing since the first three CS reps I talked to didn't mention I could just go with the $10 increase (which is giving me around 39 Mbps) until the fourth guy said I could just do that since I was still considered TWC. Not sure what to think about this but at least my speed is up and my bill only went up $10.


----------



## Jbhur212

So just in case anyone was interested I followed up with a possible switch from TWC to Spectrum last night. As my previous post, things were sort of confusing when talking to four different CS reps and I eventually just stayed with TWC but increased my internet speed from turbo to their next tier for $10 a month which left me with a bill of $174 a month for cable service and internet. Decided to see if there were any deals to make switching worth it and after looking online I decided to call and talk with Spectrum again. Well the person I talked to was very nice and patient and explained and answered my questions pretty much. I wanted to keep my top tier cable lineup that I have now (which included one of TWC sports packages) and possible increase my interenet speed, plus just keep my 2 HD cable boxes (the rep said they do have newer Spectrum boxes that are basically the same just a bit quicker menu and guide-wise if you want but I think you have to pay $4.95 per month, not sure about that though.), keep my own modem and no phone. So to keep the same cable service I had to use their Gold tier which has every channel that I have now plus quite a few more and 5 or 6 movie channels such as HBO and others (I still haven't been able to find an actual list of what the Gold channel lineup is, though). This was part of the Gold tier for no extra charge (included in this tier is a free modem if you want it, free DVR though you do have to pay the 16.95 a month charge) and you also get, for no extra charge, either 60 Mbps or 100Mbps internet (the speed you get depends on where you live and from what I understand you eventually will be bumped up to the higher speed, again for no extra charge, once they finish converting your area to be able to get the higher speed). So now I'm looking at keeping my same channel lineup plus new channels, internet speed that went from the 30 Mbps I had just signed up for from TWC for that extra $10, to 60 Mbps, being able to keep my 2 boxes and modem for $163 a month for the next 12 months. The rep did throw in a $30 discount. After a year this would go up to $183 then, after 2 more years, would go up another $20 which would be the fee for the movie channels that were included. But the rep said there was no reason I would have to pay that rate and that all I had to do was call before the end of the year and they would fix me up with whatever discount was available. So I switched since I was getting more channels, an increase of 30Mbps in my internet service and keeping my own equipment for $11 less per month for the next year. It seemed a bit too good to be sure but you do have a 30 day guarantee. My service should switch over sometime today and we'll see how that goes. So I guess you should look at what they have to offer since you may be able to get a pretty good deal. They do have all types of bundles, also.


----------



## scnrfrq

Jbhur212 said:


> So just in case anyone was interested I followed up with a possible switch from TWC to Spectrum last night. As my previous post, things were sort of confusing when talking to four different CS reps and I eventually just stayed with TWC but increased my internet speed from turbo to their next tier for $10 a month which left me with a bill of $174 a month for cable service and internet. Decided to see if there were any deals to make switching worth it and after looking online I decided to call and talk with Spectrum again. Well the person I talked to was very nice and patient and explained and answered my questions pretty much. I wanted to keep my top tier cable lineup that I have now (which included one of TWC sports packages) and possible increase my interenet speed, plus just keep my 2 HD cable boxes (the rep said they do have newer Spectrum boxes that are basically the same just a bit quicker menu and guide-wise if you want but I think you have to pay $4.95 per month, not sure about that though.), keep my own modem and no phone. So to keep the same cable service I had to use their Gold tier which has every channel that I have now plus quite a few more and 5 or 6 movie channels such as HBO and others (I still haven't been able to find an actual list of what the Gold channel lineup is, though). This was part of the Gold tier for no extra charge (included in this tier is a free modem if you want it, free DVR though you do have to pay the 16.95 a month charge) and you also get, for no extra charge, either 60 Mbps or 100Mbps internet (the speed you get depends on where you live and from what I understand you eventually will be bumped up to the higher speed, again for no extra charge, once they finish converting your area to be able to get the higher speed). So now I'm looking at keeping my same channel lineup plus new channels, internet speed that went from the 30 Mbps I had just signed up for from TWC for that extra $10, to 60 Mbps, being able to keep my 2 boxes and modem for $163 a month for the next 12 months. The rep did throw in a $30 discount. After a year this would go up to $183 then, after 2 more years, would go up another $20 which would be the fee for the movie channels that were included. But the rep said there was no reason I would have to pay that rate and that all I had to do was call before the end of the year and they would fix me up with whatever discount was available. So I switched since I was getting more channels, an increase of 30Mbps in my internet service and keeping my own equipment for $11 less per month for the next year. It seemed a bit too good to be sure but you do have a 30 day guarantee. My service should switch over sometime today and we'll see how that goes. So I guess you should look at what they have to offer since you may be able to get a pretty good deal. They do have all types of bundles, also.


Thanks for the in-depth report. I also spent a lot of time looking into this and talking to their reps. A couple things kept me from switching over. There was one sports channel I had to have, and even though it was listed in theire Misc. section, they couldn't provide it to me. Also, I wanted to keep my enhanced 6-channel DVR's, and they couldn't guarantee I could do that. Their 2-tuner DVR's are very old technology with small hard drives. They offered me no deals. I did like the fast internet, but that's about it. I'll check with them in a few months and see if anything has changed. They sure do spend a ton of money advertising, that's for sure!

Let us know how you like your new services.


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## Jbhur212

scnrfrq said:


> Thanks for the in-depth report. I also spent a lot of time looking into this and talking to their reps. A couple things kept me from switching over. There was one sports channel I had to have, and even though it was listed in theire Misc. section, they couldn't provide it to me. Also, I wanted to keep my enhanced 6-channel DVR's, and they couldn't guarantee I could do that. Their 2-tuner DVR's are very old technology with small hard drives. They offered me no deals. I did like the fast internet, but that's about it. I'll check with them in a few months and see if anything has changed. They sure do spend a ton of money advertising, that's for sure!
> 
> Let us know how you like your new services.


It's funny that unless you ask very specific questions you may not get the answer you are looking for, like your DVR inquiries. The man who helped me was very nice and after telling my my bill would be $163 a month for the next 12 months and that my service would switch over around 24 hours later I was okay with what I had gotten. Next day, about 22 hours later, still no switch over. So I called again to see what was up and a very nice lady helped me and said that the work order was still open but for some reason they didn't have my second HD box on the list and that she would fix the situation. So after telling her what I had and what I was told it would cost, she checked and came back saying my bill would actually be $151 a month. Strange but I wasn't going to complain about getting a lower price. So she flipped the switches and my service went through. Nothing really new to report except that the internet speed is very fast. The channel guide interface is exactly the same. One problem is that they don't have an actual channel list they can send you like TWC used to. You can print out a listing for whatever service you choose but for the Gold plan, that was 24 pages and none of the channels were in numerical order. You had to search for the channel name and the number for it. Plus you have to print out EVERYTHING like the adult channels and latino channels that are are on the list even though they aren't included in the plan. Other than that, been good with no technical glitches. Boy they have a crap load of movie channels included. Strange thing is the NE sports channel that was part of TWC is the one channel I have found that is now a pay channel. Never watched it at all but that was strange. Still checking it all out and we'll see when the first bill comes what's on that. And YES, do I hate those commercials. They drive me crazy. What's strange is I don't think they are telling people that they can switch and leave TWC to join Spectrum. I didn't know that until I called about upping my internet speed from turbo to the next level and was told that or the higher speed (which I think is 50Mbps) was all I could get unless I switched to Spectrum. All that money and they aren't getting the message out about switching over. I know I will be telling my brother about this when I see him since he may be able to get a better deal also.


----------



## scnrfrq

Jbhur212 said:


> It's funny that unless you ask very specific questions you may not get the answer you are looking for, like your DVR inquiries. The man who helped me was very nice and after telling my my bill would be $163 a month for the next 12 months and that my service would switch over around 24 hours later I was okay with what I had gotten. Next day, about 22 hours later, still no switch over. So I called again to see what was up and a very nice lady helped me and said that the work order was still open but for some reason they didn't have my second HD box on the list and that she would fix the situation. So after telling her what I had and what I was told it would cost, she checked and came back saying my bill would actually be $151 a month. Strange but I wasn't going to complain about getting a lower price. So she flipped the switches and my service went through. Nothing really new to report except that the internet speed is very fast. The channel guide interface is exactly the same. One problem is that they don't have an actual channel list they can send you like TWC used to. You can print out a listing for whatever service you choose but for the Gold plan, that was 24 pages and none of the channels were in numerical order. You had to search for the channel name and the number for it. Plus you have to print out EVERYTHING like the adult channels and latino channels that are are on the list even though they aren't included in the plan. Other than that, been good with no technical glitches. Boy they have a crap load of movie channels included. Strange thing is the NE sports channel that was part of TWC is the one channel I have found that is now a pay channel. Never watched it at all but that was strange. Still checking it all out and we'll see when the first bill comes what's on that. And YES, do I hate those commercials. They drive me crazy. What's strange is I don't think they are telling people that they can switch and leave TWC to join Spectrum. I didn't know that until I called about upping my internet speed from turbo to the next level and was told that or the higher speed (which I think is 50Mbps) was all I could get unless I switched to Spectrum. All that money and they aren't getting the message out about switching over. I know I will be telling my brother about this when I see him since he may be able to get a better deal also.


I found this channel listing by plan for Spectrum:
https://www.timewarnercable.com/content/twc/en/tv/channels-lineup.html/


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## Jbhur212

Thanks. This is the list I found also and when you try and print it it's 24 pages long. TWC had a small color-coded list they sent to you that was much better. Now I'm carrying a notebook  hopefully they make the same sort of list.


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## cc_in_oh

Is anyone else still using the unscrambled channels without a STB? I'm still getting analog and local digitals 3.1, 5.1 etc. but in the last few days I've lost WVIZ on 25.1, though I still get the analog 2...


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## Dweezilz

cc_in_oh said:


> Is anyone else still using the unscrambled channels without a STB? I'm still getting analog and local digitals 3.1, 5.1 etc. but in the last few days I've lost WVIZ on 25.1, though I still get the analog 2...


For some reason WVIZ moved to something like 15.xxx. I can't recall the specific channel but I found it there for some reason instead of 25.1. I'm just guessing on the 15 part too but it was somewhere down there with a three digit extension.


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## cc_in_oh

Dweezilz said:


> For some reason WVIZ moved to something like 15.xxx. I can't recall the specific channel but I found it there for some reason instead of 25.1. I'm just guessing on the 15 part too but it was somewhere down there with a three digit extension.


Thanks! I'll look for it there. Did you have to re-scan to pick it up?


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## Dweezilz

Yeah I did. Previously I had scanned a few years ago but I recently went to Vue (Spectrum internet still) and noticed 25.1 wasn't there so I rescanned and found it on one of those odd channels.


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## cc_in_oh

Dweezilz said:


> Yeah I did. Previously I had scanned a few years ago but I recently went to Vue (Spectrum internet still) and noticed 25.1 wasn't there so I rescanned and found it on one of those odd channels.


I didn't have to re-scan - my TV has it on 15-851 and my Mag recorders have it on 15.1. (I assume the subchannel showing Sesame St. right now is the right one - that's what's on 2).

That's a relief - every week I'm surprised the unscrambled lineup is still working!

Fortunately the Endeavour my recorder missed last night repeats on Sat.

Thanks for the help...


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## Dweezilz

No problem. Glad you found it. Yeah I hope at least the locals continue to work since Playstation Vue doesn't have NBC live.


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## scnrfrq

Dweezilz said:


> No problem. Glad you found it. Yeah I hope at least the locals continue to work since Playstation Vue doesn't have NBC live.


My understanding is when Spectrum makes its latest money grab next month and encrypts everything, that the QAM channels will all disappear too.


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## cc_in_oh

Yep - they're gone today. I rescanned and all I get is the channel telling me how wonderful it will be if I just send them more money...


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## Dweezilz

cc_in_oh said:


> Yep - they're gone today. I rescanned and all I get is the channel telling me how wonderful it will be if I just send them more money...


Wow...so all channels are gone? Even 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, etc...?? If so this is Specrum's direct attack against using Playstation Vue (which I do), SlingTV, etc... Every one of those online streaming services is missing a local channel. Only YouTube TV has ABC, NBC, & CBS. They also have way less channels in total...hmm....what to do, what to do.... Maybe time for an antenna in addition to Vue.


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## cc_in_oh

Dweezilz said:


> Wow...so all channels are gone? Even 3.1, 5.1, 8.1, etc...?? If so this is Specrum's direct attack against using Playstation Vue (which I do), SlingTV, etc... Every one of those online streaming services is missing a local channel. Only YouTube TV has ABC, NBC, & CBS. They also have way less channels in total...hmm....what to do, what to do.... Maybe time for an antenna in addition to Vue.


I heard half of Twinsburg was still without power today? 306 is still closed between 82 and Treat, and Walmart was just starting to restock the meat and dairy sections this morning.

I tried the cheap flat antenna I got for $8 at Marc's 5 or 6 years ago - 3.1, 5.1, 19.1 and 25.1 seemed to come in fairly well but no 8.1 for some reason...


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## Dweezilz

cc_in_oh said:


> I heard half of Twinsburg was still without power today? 306 is still closed between 82 and Treat, and Walmart was just starting to restock the meat and dairy sections this morning.
> 
> I tried the cheap flat antenna I got for $8 at Marc's 5 or 6 years ago - 3.1, 5.1, 19.1 and 25.1 seemed to come in fairly well but no 8.1 for some reason...


Yeah we don't have power yet. It's COLD in the house!! 

Years ago when I first got an HDTV back in 2001 I used a small outdoor antenna attached to the dish I use to have back then. I had exactly the same results. 8.1 was always the most difficult to get in. CBS was the easiest. 3.1 was next hardest. I may try one of those new powered square antenna and see what I can do. Still, that's only 1 TV. This really sucks. If I pay $29 more a month, I can get 1DVR and the silver package from Spectrum and use the spectrum app. That's really the only other possibility.


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## cc_in_oh

Dweezilz said:


> Yeah we don't have power yet. It's COLD in the house!!
> 
> Years ago when I first got an HDTV back in 2001 I used a small outdoor antenna attached to the dish I use to have back then. I had exactly the same results. 8.1 was always the most difficult to get in. CBS was the easiest. 3.1 was next hardest. I may try one of those new powered square antenna and see what I can do. Still, that's only 1 TV. This really sucks. If I pay $29 more a month, I can get 1DVR and the silver package from Spectrum and use the spectrum app. That's really the only other possibility.



We were lucky to get power back by 4AM Monday - the house had only dropped to 66 where we set it at night anyway...


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## Inundated

cc_in_oh said:


> Yep - they're gone today. I rescanned and all I get is the channel telling me how wonderful it will be if I just send them more money...


I am out of town...Spectrum finally pulled the analog plug?


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## scnrfrq

Dweezilz said:


> Yeah we don't have power yet. It's COLD in the house!!
> 
> Years ago when I first got an HDTV back in 2001 I used a small outdoor antenna attached to the dish I use to have back then. I had exactly the same results. 8.1 was always the most difficult to get in. CBS was the easiest. 3.1 was next hardest. I may try one of those new powered square antenna and see what I can do. Still, that's only 1 TV. This really sucks. If I pay $29 more a month, I can get 1DVR and the silver package from Spectrum and use the spectrum app. That's really the only other possibility.


I just tried one of those small, square flexible antennas from Amazon here in Erie. What a disaster! Put it on the window on the 2nd floor facing the transmitter antennas. Hardly worked at all, even with moving it around. I have a set of powered rabbit ears from about 15 years ago that worked better! Sent it back and had to get another Spectrum box to use the TV.


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## cc_in_oh

Amazon has this Viewtek antenna for $21.24 today - anyone familiar with it?


https://www.amazon.com/Amplified-VI..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=MB2PNK5WS3TN9X2BCQE2


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## scnrfrq

cc_in_oh said:


> Amazon has this Viewtek antenna for $21.24 today - anyone familiar with it?
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Amplified-VI..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=MB2PNK5WS3TN9X2BCQE2


Similar to one I just bought from Amazon and returned. It was junk. Maybe this one is better - who knows?


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## toby10

scnrfrq said:


> ..... I have a set of powered rabbit ears from about 15 years ago that worked better!....





cc_in_oh said:


> Amazon has this Viewtek antenna for $21.24 today - anyone familiar with it?
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Amplified-VI..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=MB2PNK5WS3TN9X2BCQE2


If at all possible you should get an outside antenna. Or, simply re-connect the roof antenna from 1948 already on top of your house. There is nothing "new" about TV antennas (hence why the above 15 year old pre-DTV rabbit ears worked better). 

That $22 Viewtek claims a 50 mile range, something many very good and better designed and far more expensive outside antennas would struggle with. You "might" get a station from 50 miles away *if* conditions were perfect. Unobstructed view to tower, no terrain issues, antenna placed high enough, perfect atmospheric conditions, antenna perfectly oriented to that tower, etc...

Gotta love the marketing hype of these "new" antennas! 
HDTV ready, 4K ready. Yes, and so was the antenna on top of your grandparents house when all they received was black & white analog Lone Ranger broadcasts! The real kicker is bothering to even mention 4K as we will likely never see 4K broadcasts OTA.


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## Inundated

One more time, since I am still uncertain and out of town...Spectrum analog is gone now, correct?


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## cc_in_oh

Inundated said:


> One more time, since I am still uncertain and out of town...Spectrum analog is gone now, correct?


All unscrambled channels are gone, analog and digital...


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## Inundated

cc_in_oh said:


> All unscrambled channels are gone, analog and digital...


Is that true for all of the Spectrum NE Ohio footprint?


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## cc_in_oh

Inundated said:


> Is that true for all of the Spectrum NE Ohio footprint?


I have no way of knowing but my guess is that if you have a STB and have been getting the sales pitch instead of your power-on channel for the last few weeks, you're affected...


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## Inundated

cc_in_oh said:


> I have no way of knowing but my guess is that if you have a STB and have been getting the sales pitch instead of your power-on channel for the last few weeks, you're affected...


No STB at home. Just analog expanded basic.

I have been picking up the locals via QAM, which would go away after the conversion.

I guess that I will find out when I get home later today.


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## TLones1060

QAM and analog are still on via ny "48 Haier Living Room TV here in Canton. Been rescanning the last few days about once a day and nothing has changed. We have a Roku Stick with the Spectrum App so we wont necessarily need a box at least right away.


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## Inundated

TLones1060 said:


> QAM and analog are still on via ny "48 Haier Living Room TV here in Canton. Been rescanning the last few days about once a day and nothing has changed. We have a Roku Stick with the Spectrum App so we wont necessarily need a box at least right away.


I am in Akron, so we'll see what happens when I get home...


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## Inundated

Analog is still alive, at least on this end of the Spectrum Akron area system.


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## Inundated

I found that Spectrum video loop on a QAM channel, and it says that the digital conversion "starts" on November 7. So, it's probably rolling out in stages through the NE Ohio system...


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## TLones1060

Just got a letter stating that Spectrum is going "all digital" by December 12 in the Canton area..Will be picking up a box at The Belden Village Store tomorrow..They are offering free boxes for a year for those still with just the analog signals.


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## Inundated

Supposedly, according to a Spectrum rep, we'll convert on the 28th.

And it turns out that we had a TWC DTA they sent us back in 2016...and that box does NOT work.


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## Inundated

We got the three DTA boxes. I am installing them tonight when I get home.

They are much bigger than that TWC DTA box that wouldn't work before.


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## Inundated

One box down, two to go. Works great. It gives me all the appropriate HD programming with the package and some box-only channels I never got with analog. Will put in the other two boxes (on older analog only sets) later.


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## dmking12370

Well after last week's all-digital transformation (for Spectrum in Akron), I have noticed several things.

First, the program guide for channel 987 (MeTV) is all wrong. The guide information is actually that of Laff. I did call customer service last week and the problem has STILL NOT BEEN FIXED!

On the brighter side, I have noticed that they have added several channels in HD now. They include WGN-America, all three C-Span channels, and BBC World News. There are probably other channels as well, but those are the ones that I noticed that come to mind (though I wonder are those channels actually in HD or did Spectrum stopped putting those channels into a 4:3 format now that they have ditched analog). Either way, that is good that the channels are being broadcast in their original format (if the channel is originally formatted in 16:9, then it should be put out in 16:9).


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## Inundated

For what it's worth, I just tuned to 987/WOIO DT2/MeTV and the programming and guide data are OK.


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## dmking12370

Inundated said:


> For what it's worth, I just tuned to 987/WOIO DT2/MeTV and the programming and guide data are OK.


Well compare 987 with 984 and you will see that it is the same programs. All of the programs are what airs on Laff (WEWS-DT-2).


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## Inundated

dmking12370 said:


> Well compare 987 with 984 and you will see that it is the same programs. All of the programs are what airs on Laff (WEWS-DT-2).


987 had Cannon (MeTV) and the proper MeTV guide info (WOIO DT2).

I didn't check 984.


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## Inundated

And 984 is indeed WEWS DT3/Laff, both in programming and guide data.


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## Inundated

We have all three boxes going now, and two of them are painfully slow. Only the 101-T box upstairs is reasonably fast.

With all the boxes running, I have no idea if Spectrum finally pulled the plug...


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## cc_in_oh

Has anyone switched to Spectrum's 30+30+30 plan? Looks like it now includes 100 mbps internet so maybe not a bad deal?


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## scnrfrq

cc_in_oh said:


> Has anyone switched to Spectrum's 30+30+30 plan? Looks like it now includes 100 mbps internet so maybe not a bad deal?


What is the 30-30-30 plan?


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## cc_in_oh

scnrfrq said:


> What is the 30-30-30 plan?


$90 for TV, internet & phone - I've been getting offers for quite a while but was afraid of losing unscrambled channels. Now that they're gone anyway I figured I should check it out. In earlier offers IIRC the internet was a measly 15 mbps. Good for 12 months, no contract, also includes DVR...


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## scnrfrq

They tried to get me to change to. But I'm not giving up my TW enhanced DVR's - they're great. Spectrum DVR's are very old tech with small storage and no clock on front. Also 
I'd lose channels if I switched. I would like the 100 speed, but not by giving up my TW features.


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## Inundated

I guess that no one is watching Spectrum's "local weather" channel (23), even at Spectrum.

I tuned by it the other day, and the ongoing background music seems even more awful than usual. It warbles out of tune frequently.

Thankfully, there is no important information that is not on the screen (or not online or on the Weather Channel for that matter), so at least you can mute it...


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## stuart628

So anyone other then me start using apple tv for their cable box and take all their equipment back? whats your thoughts and experiences? mine so far is picture is softer then other streaming apps or straight from the box, but its not bad. Hopefully they are planning on improving their streaming experience and bump that bitrate up...not sure if we are Docsis 3.1 but that would be a good time to start.


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## mbclev

It's been a long time since there was a post in this thread, but I'd like to insert a photo I grabbed from someplace that I don't remember right now, but this photo from 1982 shows cable channel listings throughout the Cleveland area, and I'd like to know where some of the less-familiar companies to me had their service areas, so I can understand the underlying heritage






. (I know that Viacom served nearly all of the eastern suburbs of Cuyahoga County, and Cox is still serving the areas it served back then, and Telecable is still serving East Cleveland and Continental served Lake County, Bay Village and Elyria, and Matrix served Bedford Heights and Oakwood [Solon did not get cable until 1984], but I don't know the service areas of Complexicable, Teleprompter, Space Cable, and Westshore.)


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## Jeffhs456

I live 30 miles east of Cleveland, and 15 miles further (for a total of 45 miles) from the TV stations' towers. I get my TV reception from Spectrum, using their "streaming" video service. I have spoken with at least two customer representatives from Spectrum who have informed me I do not have standard cable service (their "streaming" service may be and probably is, though I'm not sure by any means, completely separate from their standard cable) since the "streaming" service connects directly to the subscriber's TV, and so does not use a cable box. I have a 32" Insignia HDTV, bought new about two years ago (approximately).

I do watch football on TV occasionally, though I am not a dyed-in-the-wool football fan, so my 32" TV makes watching the games I do watch a lot more enjoyable than when I was watching on my 19" CRT sets (I still have one, but got rid of the others I had when I moved to the apartment in which I live today). The football broadcasts on all networks come in very well here, even though I watch them on the Spectrum streaming service (not OTA, as I live in an apartment building and cannot use an antenna).


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## Inundated

What locals are on the Spectrum streaming service?


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## Jeffhs456

Inundated said:


> What locals are on the Spectrum streaming service?


 Every one of Cleveland's local TV stations (3, 5, 8, 25, 43, 61) is on Spectrum's "streaming" cable service.


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## Jeffhs456

Jeffhs456 said:


> Every one of Cleveland's local TV stations (3, 5, 8, 19, 25, 43, 61) is on Spectrum's "streaming" cable service.


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## Inundated

Jeffhs456 said:


> Every one of Cleveland's local TV stations (3, 5, 8, 25, 43, 61) is on Spectrum's "streaming" cable service.


No 19 or 55?


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